DI

,¦;.,, J' I give thefe Boakl
for the. /awnting tf. a College in i^£olon.y"

0

Gift of

Prof. C. A. Goodrich

1845

THE

SPEECHES

OF

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE

WILLIAM PITT,

IN THE

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

C1UANTO MAOIS ADMIRAREMINI, SI AUDISSETIS II'SUM !
ClCEKO.

• IN FOUR VOLUMES.

VOL. III.

LONDON:
PRINTED FOR LONGMAN, HUIIST, REES AND ORME,
PATERKOaTER-BOW ;
J. HATCHARD, PICCADILLY ;~ND BLACKS AND PARRY,
LEADEN HALL-STREET. ~

1806.

James Cundee, Printer, London.

CONTENTS

OF THE

THIRD VOLUME.

DEC. 8, 1796. Debate on the second reading of the report of
the committee of ways and means ........ f
Dec. 14,  Mr.. Fox's motion respecting advances of mo
ney to the Emperor  ................. 8
Dec. 30,  His Majesty's message announcing the failure of
the negociation  ........  ..  . 33
Feb. 28, 1797. His Majesty's message relative to the bank .. 50
Mar. 9,  Report of the secret committee on the affairs
of the bank   i_. 68
 13, — — Motion for retrenchment in the public expen
diture  ........  .........  74
— — 23, — — Mr. Fox's motion on the present state of Ire
land  85
April 4, — — Motion by Mr. Sheridan respecting advances
to the Emperor ......  ....  .... 95
— — 26,  The budget  108
May 26,  Mr. Grey's motion for a reform in parliament. 127
June 2,  His Majesty's message relative to the mutiny
in the Fleet  141
Nov. 10,  Address to his Majesty on the late negociations
at Lisle  153
 24.-  The budget  175
Dec. 4.  Assessed taxes  204
2

iv CONTENTS.
Pagt
Dec. 5, 1797, Report of the committee of ways and means . . 216
 14,  Assessed taxes  .  z
Jan. 4, 1798, Ditto  '.  235
Mar. 27,  Bill for providing'more effectually for the de
fence of the country  ....  254
April 2,  Redemption of the land-tax   239
 20,  His Majesty's message respecting invasion .. 273
,   — Suspension of the habeas corpus' act  278
 25,  The budget  282
¦ May 25,  Motion to bring in a bill for the more effectual
manning of the navy  . 298
¦Dec. 3)  Thebudget  300
 14,  Income duty bill  333
Jan. 23, 1799, His Majesty's messaga respecting an union
with Ireland   ............. 347
 31,  Further.consrderation of the same  361
April 19,,  Motion to bring in a bill for suppressing sedi
tious societies.   -. 403
June 7.  His Majesty's message relative to Russia  . 412
 Thebudget   424

MR. PITT'S
PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES.

December 8, 1796.
1 HE report of the committee of Ways and Means was brought up, and the
resolutions were read a first time. On the motion for their being, now read a.
second time,
Mr. Fox, in very animated language, urged the attention of the house to
the circumstance of ministers having granted £1,300,000- to the Emperor
of Germany without the consent of parliament, upon which he dwelt for a
considerable time.
Mr. Pitt replied to his observations:
Those, who never before had an opportunity of hearing the
speeches which the right honourable gentleman has been accus
tomed to pronounce, and of observing the line of argument which
he has been accustomed to employ upon every public question
which has been agitated in this house, would certainly have sup
posed, upon the present occasion, that this day, for the first
time in his life, the right honourable gentleman had felt real
alarm for the liberties and constitution of his country, and for
the first time a point had occurred, so intimately connected with
the preservation of their political rights, that in the event of a
decision hostile to the opinion which he holds, it is to be vindi
cated by nothing less than an appeal to the people. But it has-
happened to those who have often had occasion to attend to the
right honourable gentleman, to have heard the same danger re- -
presented, and the same consequences applied. It is not once,
twice, or three times that the right honourable gentleman has
reprobated with the same emphasis, stigmatised with the same
epithets, and denounced as pregnant with ruin to the liberties of
vol.. III. B

3 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 8,
the couML measures, which it has been thought necessary to
bring forwfp, and which the wisdom of parliament has thought
proper to adopt ; nor is it now the first time that the right ho
nourable gentleman, and those who sit near him, have made a
stand behind the last dike of the constitution. It is not the first,
the second, nor the third time, I repeat, that upon points which
a great majority of the house and of the country deemed to be
connected with the preservation of their dearest interests, the right
honourable gentleman has raised the cry of alarm, and has affected
to see the downfall of the constitution, and the destruction of our
liberties. Not many months even have elapsed since theright ho
nourable gentleman stated with the same confidence, and urged
with the same fervour, that the liberties of England were annihi
lated, anditsconstitutiongone, if certain bills then pending passed
into law j laws under which, I will venture to affirm, that a
vast majority of the people of this country agree that the sub
stantial blessings of their free government have been preserved;
and the designs of our real enemies have hitherto been frustrated.
Nay, not many hours have elapsed since the right honourable
gentleman gave a two month's notice of his- intention to move
the repeal of those acts which he once represented as a grievance
under which he could not sleep.
There is, indeed, something striking, something peculiarly
singular, in the manner in which the new constitutional light
has broken in upon the right honourable gentleman. This de
claration of mind, which has infused so deadly an alarm into the
mind of the right honourable gentleman, this declaration by
which the constitution is annihilated, was made yesterday!
This declaration is admitted to have been made in a way the
most clear and distinct, indeed so clear as to magnify the danger^
and to aggravate the offence. This declaration, which he now
feels to be so fatal to the liberties of the country, so repugnant to
the principles of the constitution, as to render it incumbent upon
him to make it the ground of an extraordinary proceeding, and th»
reason of signal animadversion against me, did not yesterday
strike him as of so much importance, as immediately to call hira

*7grJ-} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES.
p ! It did not inspire with any particular sensation ^Pfcmoura-
ble friend near him*, a gentleman by nature not free from jea
lousy, and of a vigilance which it was not easy to elude--it' had
not drawn from him the smallest remark of any kind, that could
expose the danger with which it was pregnant. It never dis.
turbed the serenity of his temper, though perhaps not th8
least liable to irritation, nor had it prevented him from laying
before the house the details of his various calculations with tha
most calm and placid equanimity, the very moment after he had
witnessed the death- wound of the constitution ! After an inter
val of debate, it had deranged none of the calculations of the right
honourable gentleman, it had not driven out of his head his rea
sonings of the three per cents., his remarks upon the navy debt,
nor a single circumstance of objection which the survey of th«
subject had presented, nor had it deterred him from allowing the
resolutions to be carried with an unanimous vote. But after the
right honourable gentleman had slept upon this subject, he dis
covers that the speech which he yesterday heard with so much.
indifference, contains principles of such dreadful tendency, and
threatens consequences of such fatal operatloti, as to lead hinv
not merely to propose a censure of the doctrines, or the repro*
bation of the particular measure ; not merely the punishment of
the person by whom it was uttered 5 but which would induce
him in the first instance to take revenge for the error or the
guilt of a minister, by giving his negative to the whole resolu*
' tions, which have no relation to the particular measure in ques
tion j which would prompt him to suspend those supplies which
are calculated to give confidence to the negociations for peace,
or in case of being reduced to that alternative, energy to the
operations of war 5 that would induce him to tell the enemy by
the very next post, by which the unanimous determination of
parliament to provide for every- situaiton is conveyed, that the
¦house of commons had interfered to stop the effect of their for
mer decision, had suspended the means that were to add weight
* Mr. Grey.
• 2

, ; MR. PITT'S [Dec. 8,
to the e^Brns of the executive government, and at so critical

a moment of the negociation had committed the interests of this
country and her allies, and flattered the hopes and raised the
pretensions of the enemy. Such is the length to which the pro
position of the right honourable gentleman goes. It is not to
remedy, the imputed crime which has been committed, nor to
guard against the chance of its occurring in future, but it is cal
culated to derange every measure which may be in train, and to
disappoint: every design that may be in contemplation. I cannot,
however, but hope, that when the right honourable gentleman
has viewed the suhject with more consideration, when he has
again slept upon his wrath, he will recur to that coolness. which
he first experienced, and that his vehemence and his alarm will
*ubside. But whether the right honourable gentleman is to be*
deterred by the prospect of the dangers which must aris©
irom the measure which he proposes, at least I cannot doubt
that consideration Vill have its just weight with the house.
The right honourable gentleman says, that if he Succeeds in
his present motion, he will move the house against his Majesty's
ministers for the part they have acted upon this occasion. There .
is one thing that I will intreat of the right honourable gentle?
man, and he may be; assured it is the only supplication that I -
will address to him upon this subject, and it is, that if he 'can ,
prove to the house that I have violated the constitution, and
committed the crime of which he accuses me, he will nbt defer
a single moment to take the step which he has threatened j that
he will confine his efforts to that bbject, and that he will not
combine with the vengeance he pursues, a measure that involves
the ruin of his country. Let the punishment destined for mi
nisters light upon them alone, and let the consequences of the,
measures which they employed to avert the dangers which'
threatened their country, the measures which they adopted for
US safety, for the salvation of Europe, rest upon themselves.
This much I address to the right honourable gentleman, not for
personal considerations, nor do I intreat the boon as a matter of
personal indulgence. If it be refused by him, I hope at least

1*96.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 5
that the house will be actuated by more moderate pPngs, and
guided by wiser maxims.
The rest of the right honourable gentleman's propositions, and
the point of his observations, are so exclusively confined to my
self, that I am at a loss in what way to proceed, or whether I
ought to trespass upon the house with any remarks upon them,
since the subject is intended for a more full discussion. I can
not, however, refrain from exposing the strange and extraor
dinary misrepresentations which he has given of the general
question upon which he builds the conclusion of criminality ;
and I cannot doubt, that when the house perceives the founda
tion upon which the accusation is raised, they will be able to
judge of the effect that oughc to be given . to the others w^th
which it was vested in the house pf commons. The right ho
nourable gentleman stated the general principle which const!*
tuted the chief security of our liberties--the power of control
ling the public expenditure — and I hope there is little difference
of opinion upon this subject. The right honourable gentleman
says, that if there is one thing sure in (the constitution, it is this ;
and if it be violated, he maintains that the people still possess the
means of obtaining redress. After the representations which
the house have heard upon the dilapidations which the constitu
tion has suffered, and the invasions committed upon the public
liberties, they may judge of the reality of the danger which is
how threatened, when it is even yet admitted that resources are
left by which it may be opposed, Although the general prin
ciple which the right honourable gentleman states as the essence
of the freedom of the constitution be admitted, it cannot be dis
puted that it is subject to limitation. At every period since the
commencement of those periods to which we refer for the pure
practice of the constitution, in the best and most glorious aeras
in the history of our government, the principle of extraordi-
naries has been received, not merely for individual expenses,
but recognized upon general views. It has prevailed under every
administration, even those with which the' right honourable
gentleman was connected, during the three last reigns, and in

6 MR. PITT'S [Deo. 8,
the mos^jflproved periods of liberty and constitutional policy.
The right honourable gentleman then holds this principle with*
out exception, while the practice of every government proves
that it has been always limited, and his whole argument is ap
plicable to all the extraordinaries that ever were voted by parlia
ment. It is impossible, therefore, that the right honourable
gentleman could have correctly stated — I can hardly believe that
he has sincerely stated — this argument, which his experience
must disavow, and his knowledge must inform him is neither
consistent with the principles of the constitution, nor with its
practice at periods which deserve to be followed as examples.
But though I am here arguing upon general points, the ques
tion in reality comes within a narrower compass. The right ho
nourable gentleman chuses to overlook in one instance what h«(
Mludes to in another part of his speech. Did it never occur to.
him that parliament had sometimes committed to his Majesty.,
not new, but special powers, which superseded all general ques
tions ? In reality this discretionary power is expressly com
mitted to his Majesty. Before I sit down, I intend to move
that his Majesty's message of the 8th of December last yea?
should be read, and likewise the act, granting a vote of credit.
From this it will appear that a power was given to his Majesty
to apply the sum contained in the vote of credit as the exigen
cies of the state might require. Suppose the case, which will
not be a less suitable illustration, because it approaches the fact,
that powers had been conferred to give that assistance to the
allies of this country, which our own interest and the circum
stances of the situation required ; can any man doubt that the
minister, who should have hesitated to issue* that sum, which,
granted, might have enabled our allies to maintain their own
cause, and to defend the safety of Europe, and who should have
allowed the enemies of Austria to complete her destruction by
withholding a seasonable supply, would have been a traitor to
his country, and would have merited the severest punishment ?
The vote of credit last year does actually invest the executive go
vernment with a discretionary power of applying the sums granted

lrQO-l PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. f
in a manner that might best suit the public exigencies, and the
money applied to the service of the emperor is within the
amount of the grant. I do not mean to say that the discretion
thus vested in the crown is absolute and independent of the con
trol of parliament, or that the minister, who exercises it in an
improper manner, is exempted from censure 3 but in what man
ner I understand this limitation, I will state when I am called
upon to make my defence. Whatever be the issue of this dis
cussion, I cannot forbear observing, even at the risk of incurring
the imputation of arrogance, that I would rather be convicted of
having acted a principal part in the measure of granting a supply
by which the salvation of Austria was secured, and the inde
pendence of Europe was maintained, than be acquitted for with
holding that aid, by which the cause of our allies was sacrificed,
and the general interests of mankind compromised. At present,
however, the question is not, "Whether the conduct of his Ma
jesty's ministers were proper or improper j whether they were
intitled to praise or deserving of punishment ? The house have
now to determine, Whether they shall announce to France that
the supplies of the year are to be stopped, and the exertions of
the executive power suspended? Whether at a moment of such
critical importance we are to be reduced to the unhappy situation
when we can neither prosecute the negotiation with that confi
dence which is calculated to insure a favorable issue, nor prepare
for war with an energy which can afford the prospect of success
to pur exertions?
The house divided on the question, that the word " mow" stand part pf
the motion, Ayes - - - r r - 164
Noes -  58
? he original question was then put, and carried.

P 4

8 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 8,
* December 14, 1796.
Mr. Fox, after an introductory speech, condemning, as unconstitutional,
the conduct of ministers in having granted money to the Emperor of Ger
many and the Prince of Conde, without the consent of Parliament, moved
the following resolution : " That his Majesty's ministers, having authorised
and directed, at different tir-es, without the consent, and during the sitting
of Parliament, the issu- of various sums of money for the service of his
Imperial Majesty, and also for the service of the army under the Prince of
Conde, have acted contrary to their duty, and to the trust "reposed irt
them, and have thereby violated the constitutional privileges of this
House." Mr. PiTT'then rose :
When I consider, Sir, the nature of the motion which is
this day brought forward by the right honourable gentle
man against his Majesty's ministers, and the serious charge
which it involves, I must regard myself as particularly impli
cated in that charge, as possessing a particular share of re
sponsibility in the conduct^of that measure which is censured as
a violation of the constitution, and a breach of the privileges of
this house. I have, however, in the discussion of this ques
tion every tiling to expect from the candour and justice of the
house. An imputation of a most serious kind has been advanced
against his Majesty's ministers ; but it is necessary that all which
nsay be offered on both sides should be fairly heard, before any
decision can take place. It is requisite that gentlemen should be
in full possession of every important fact that can be adduced, be
fore they hasten to a conclusion which necessarily involves in it
matter of such weight.and magnitude. The house should clearly
know the general principles on which it is to decide : it should
know the grounds on' which the theory of this part of the consti
tution is erected : it should also know, what the particular in
stances are in point of practice that militate in a certain degree
against the general principles. I say, Sir, when these considera
tions are once known, it will then be incumbent on the house to
decide. But I trust it will not be denied, that until these points

1796-3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 9
are completely and satisfactorily ascertained, the house ought,
with every view to propriety, to suspend its determination. It is
no small object of satisfaction to me, that the full review of for
mer precedents with respect to the present motion, forms a- chief
ground of it. In such an application of facts, I have consider
able reason to be pleased, and I trust I shall clearly demonstrate
before I sit down, that former precedents concur in justifying
the measure which is at this moment so severely condemned.
Lam, however, not a little surprised to hear the language
made use of by an honourable magistrate *, who has declared
that he has received instructions from his constituents to join in
a vote of censure against his Majesty's ministers, for having sup
plied the emperor with money without the authority, of parlia
ment There is, perhaps, not any question on which a member
ought to allow the decided dictates of his own conscience and
judgment to be superseded by the instructions of his constituents;
but if there is any case in which a member ought to be particu
larly anxious to preserve his right of private judgment, it is-in
the present instance, with respect to a criminal charge-: for I
think it must be admitted, that it was impossible for the honour
able gentleman's constituents to decide in a just and candid man
ner, on the propriety of giving a vote on a motion, with the par
ticulars of which they must have been unacquainted, and more
peculiarly as they must have been totally igaorant of the defence
which his Majesty's ministers meant to set up. I have, Sir, to
caution the house against those constitutional doctrines which
have been maintained in former debates, and particularly on
Thursday night last. But without entering into a minute refu
tation of them, or stating those which 1 conceive to be strictly
just, I cannot help observing, that much is saved for my purpose
by the concessions which the right honourable gentleman him
self f has made. I certainly do not wish to goad the right ho-1
nourable gentleman into the former opinions he has at different
times maintained : I am better content to take his present state-
( * Alderrpan Combe. ' f Mr. Fox,

10

MR. PITT'S tDso- l4>

ments : I am better content with what Ihave heard from him to
day, and with those general principles which have fallen from
him in support of his motion. . For as, on a former occasion,
when the present subject was first started, the interval of one
night made him see the measure more inflammatory than it
really is ; it now appears that a pause of a few days have dimi
nished his ideas of the inflammatory tendency which, in his own '
opinion, it possessed. The right honourable gentleman has taken
great pains to lay down the great constitutional principles with re
gard to pecuniary grants, and the useof these grants. I didunder-
stand on a former night, that the honourable gentleman told us
one thing, to which he said there was no exception, namely, that.
no expense could be incurred without the consent of parliament.
I did not altogether subscribe to that doctrine, and I will state,
as nearly as possible, the very words of the argument I then
fcsed in answer. I argued, that the practice of extraordinaries
had been adoptedat different periods of the history of the coun
try, at periods the most approved in the history of the country, at
least at periods which the honourable gentleman must naturally
think the most approved — when he was himself in the adminis •
tration. Extraordinaries, to a large amount, were used during
the sitting of. parliament, and parliament afterwards justified the
act .by a vote. The honourable gentleman did then admit, that
he never' could be supposed to have said that extraordinaries
could not be used without the consent of parliament, previously
obtained ; but when ministers have now adopted the same mea
sure, the propriety of which the honourable gentleman said, he
could not be supposed, to deny, yet such is his alarm/ that he
cannot feel himself justified in pausing a moment on the neces
sity of the actual condemnation of ministers.
. However, Sir, it is enough for my purpose to admit, that, _ ac
cording to the fundamental principles of the constitution, all
grants must proceed from the commons ; that they are afterwards
subject to their control, is a principle undeniable : but although
the commons are possessed of the power of controlling the ap
plication of the supplies raised by them, yet it is a circumstance

1JT95.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 11
proved to demonstration, by practice and general observation, that
k would be impossible to carry on any wars, that it would be im
possible for government to proceed with due regard for the public
safety, or with advantage for the public service, if extraordinaries
were not raised by parliament. In point of practice, it is evident
they have been raised. Those great writers, who have written
-«n the subject subsequent to the revolution, prove that extraordi
naries have always been used from that period. I desire to refer
to the practice of the whole of the succession of administrations,
from the days of King William down to the present time, when
the principles of the constitution are become infinitely more de«
finite, and when, owing to ambition on the part of France, pub
lic expenses and the transactions of finance have attained a greater
-magnitude j and I ask, whether from that period down to the
present, the practice of extraordinaries has not been recognized,
and admitted ? I do not mean of extraordinaries only, but of ex
traordinary services during the sitting of parliament. I do not
•ftate this, as if there was only one or two solitaiy precedents, but
as tile uniform practice of all the wars in which this country has
been engaged ; and that, during such wars, the extraordinaries
have been precisely of the description I have stated. Sir, our
{Constitution is one which rests on great and leading principles,
but still no one would wish that the constitution should expe-»
rience any injury by pushing those principles to a rigid and ex
treme excess. If we are to look into the record books of the
constitution, we shall find certain principles laid down, which
seem to contradict many acts of parliament, which are held as
strictly legal. If we examine the law of parliament, we shall
find, that it is derived principally from the general tenor of the
whole of the principles of the constitution, illustrated by the par*
ticular urgency and necessity of circumstances. If this is the
true way which men ought to study the constitution, by applying
the principles of it to the exigency of circumstances, let me re
peat what I stated on a former night, with respect to the impos
sibility of the measure being wrong, which was done in conform .
paity to the best and most approved principles, as adapted to pe-

12

MR. PITT'S [Dec. 14,

culiar events; and let me also ask, how a measure can deserve
to be loaded with obloquy and reproach, which in truth is ho
more than has been the practice of every administration, at those
periods when we have been most proud of the constitution ?' I
might remark, that the honourable gentleman) in the courseof
his speech, has admitted such to have been, the practice, because
he has himself acted upon it; yet Imust admit that the honour
able gentleman, when he stated that such was the practice, ob
served, that because extraordinaries were consonant to practice,
it was no reason they should be extended so far, if it could pos
sibly be avoided. The honourable gentleman, if I understand
him right, by that very mode of argument, of the extension«of
the extraordinaries being attended with so much the more mis
chief, does, in fact, admit the exception to the principle which
he charges me with having violated, and, in short, destroys in
effect the very principle he before admitted. He told us that
every extraordinary service involved the breach of the pledge to
satisfy former estimates, by removing the means of paying them
to some other service.. If his doctrines mean to infer that- ex
traordinaries ought not to be unnecessarily extended, I cannot
but perfectly coincide with him : but if his argument has for its
object that of rendering all extraordinaries invidious, I hope, in
such case I may be allowed to guard the house against the effects
of attending too much to topics opposed to the very same prin
ciples which he has before admitted. That extraordinaries are
liable to the future observation and control of parliament, -i%
true; but parliament has at all times felt, that it is necessary,
for the public safety, that ministers should have tile power of
using extraordinaries, without appealing to parliament, provided
that power, and the means by which those extraordinaries are
incurred, are subject to future discussion.
But it is not the question of extraordinaries only that arises.
Parliament, finding the impossibility of reducing every thing.to
estimated expenses, has introduced the practice of giving, votes'
of credit, with the power, generally, to apply them as exigencies
might require. As far as it has been possible to provide against

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. U
extraordinaries, which always hitherto has been impracticable,
everyendeavour has been exerted ; but it is a circumstance in
which parliament have certainly acted with great wisdom,
that it has not thought proper at any time to interfere with res
pect to the amount of the sums which ministers might thluk
necessary for supplying the extraordinaries, but merely to make i
ministers responsible for the application of the sums; and the
necessity of the extraordinaries, to the payment of which they
are directed. ' Before I say any more, I will only observe, that
it is not likely I should be one to dispute the propriety of the
measure of providing for the extraordinaries by the extent of
the vote of credit, if such, a thing could be adopted; ,1 have often
heard it made a matter «f reproach to me, that I endeavoured to
estimate- every expense and provide for it beforehand. The
votes of credit were always smaller in former wars than in the
present. In the present war, I have added to the vote of credit
other provisions for the purpose of providing for the extraordi
naries beforehand ; I may therefore be considered as having
done all in my power towards endeavouring to take the previous
authority of parliament. What then do I say, that there is no
difference between a vote of credit and extraordinaries ? As to
the vote of credit, I conceive it to be a privilege granted to his ¦
Majesty's ministers to employ a given sum to any such purpose
as the exigency of affairs shall require. There is no circumstance;
however unforeseen, there is no purpose!, be it what it may, nrt
possible event, to which -ministers may not think it requisite
that a vote of credit is applicable ; no expenses upon sudden
emergencies, which do, not come within the spirit of a vote of
credit, subject however to that principle which I -shall stastev
{Here Mr. Grey tobk notes of what fell from the Chancellor of
the Exchequer.] I observe an honourable gentleman^aking notes :
of whatT have just mentioned, and by. his manner he seems to
express disapprobation. I only hbpe he will not inteirupt me, .'
till, he has done me the honour to attend to the whole of what I ¦
say, when I have no doubt but I shall be able to, convince him I
am rights Have I said that, because a vote of credit is applicable .

^ MR-PITT'S" tDae. 14 '
to every public service, there is no question of res ponsibiliry?
Have I said there is no principle of respect, of attention, of de
ference to parliament ? I trust I have neither denied, nor at any
one moment of my life have failed to shew by my conduct, that
such responsibility does exist. I know that for every exercise of
that discretion, regularly given by the act, founded upon the
vote of credit, ministers ate subject to the same responsibility-
as for the exercise of every other discretion, which permanently
belongs to them as ministers of the crown, and which they are
bound to use for the safety, the welfare, and the dignity of the
Country; a discretion the more important, as it relates to the
disposition of the public money : and I trust parliament will not
lose sight, that it is their duty to weigh those unforeseen difficul
ties on which alone government can use the powers with which
it is entrusted.
But, Sir, I do not mean to flop here; I do not mean to say
that government cught not to be questioned as to the propriety of
the measures it may think proper to recur to> I have admitted
its liability to be censured. I will admit, that if, at that time of
asing a vote of credit, ministers foresee any expenditure which
appears likely to be of consequence, either with respect to its
amount, or the importance or peculiarity of the subject, if it
admits of a precise efiimate, and if the subject is of such a
nature that it can be divulged without injury or inconvenience
to the public — should readily admit that that minister would
fail in his duty to parliament, that he would not act according to
the sound principles of what I believe to be the constitution of the
country, if he were not to state the nature of the emergency,
and endeavour to estimate the expense; but if from the nature
of the exigency, it should be impolitic to divulge it, in that case,
I conceive the minister justified, who conceals it from parlia
ment till a future season. By these principles, as to the general
question, I am satisfied that my merits or demerits should be
tried; If I have, in the opinion of the house, departed from
the principles of the constitution, then I have committed an
ep« jn judgment : If through an error in judgment I hav*

JTSCJ • PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 15
departed from the principles of the constitution, I admit that t
ought to receive the censure of the house, notwithstanding that
error proceeded from my having felt it my irresistible duty, in
common with the rest of his Majesty's ministers, to act upon
principles which I conceived the best calculated to ensure the
prosperity and advantage of the country. Let me not be-sup»
posed to admit, what the honourable gentleman seems to assume
as an instance of candour, namely, that he reserved the question,
whether any degree of importance, which might attach to th«
•ubject, could possibly be considered an argument for con
cealing it, or that its importance could make any difference
with regard to the estimate of its expense. Of the principle
itself, it is not material to say more; but with respect to what
the honourable gentleman has stated, I will make this observa
tion. He has said that extraordinaries are admitted on account
of indispensable necessity, and that those extraordinaries are
such a mischief, that he almost doubts whether they should be
suffered at all. I will admit that expense, be it what it will,
is indubitably objectionable, and that if the expense arises to a
considerable sum, the objection is still stronger ; but the greater
the expense, the higher is the advance on the responsibility of
ministers, and the greater is the inducement for this house to
vote to discharge those expenses. The only case has ¦ occured
which was in contemplation. If it should appear to the hpuse,
that, in consequence of an unforeseen change of circumstances,
the necessity of expenditure was increased; if it should appear
that the only opportunity had arrived, in which there was no
alternative but that of relinquishing the cause in which the
country was engaged, or of advancing the responsibility of mi
nisters; if, I say, this should appear, is it a mark of candour iny
the honourable gentleman to desire that the urgency only should
be put out of the question ?
Why then, Sir, as to the utility of the advance to the empe*
ror, whether it could have been made in a more proper form ;
whether, by a previous application to parliament, it would not.
have been attended with a greater degree of inconvenience ;

IS MR. PITT'S [Dec. 14*
whether the advance was not made at a time the most critical
that could possibly have occurred— these are questions which
I shall shortly proceed to discuss. But, assuming for the present,
that there was a difficulty about the mode of doing it, what mode,
under similar circumstances, would have been more eligible?
In this way it has been tried, and has succeeded: by previously
applying to parliament, it is doubtful whether it would have*
succeeded or not. I entreat gentlemen to recollect the situation
of the emperor on the continent; the situation of this country,
with respect to the prosecution of the war, or of its termination
by a safe and honourable peace : I request them to look back to
July or August last ; a period when we saw with regret and ap
prehension the u-iumpbant arms of the French Republic at the
gates of Munich, and the territorial possessions of the belligerent
powers in danger of being wrested from them. When they look
•back to this period, let them at the same time contemplate the slow,
firm, measured and magnanimous retreat of the gallant Austrian
army, and the consequences which followed from aretreat onlycal-
culated to ensure the success of their future operations. Will they
then ask themselves, dry as the question may be, when so ani
mated a subject is presented to the mind, how far the assurance
of the aid which this country was disposed to grant, may have
invigorated the spirit of a country making its utmost efforts to
resist an invading foe, how far it, may have given confidence to
their resources, and enabled them to prosecute that line of
operations which has been attended with such distinguished suc-
sess ? With these considerations in his view, is there any man
who can regard as a matter of consequence, whether the expense
of900,000Z. or 1,200,000/. has been incurred to the country ?
Is there any man who can question the propriety of the sum
allotted for the object, and would be willing, for the sake of so
paltry a saving, to give up our share in promoting a service,
which has terminated so honourably for the character of our
allies, and so beneficially for the general interests of Europe?
Who would not rejoice that he was admitted into partnership
so illustrious, and accompanied with such brilliant success ?

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 17

¦ Me credits Lesion,

Me Tenedon, Chrysenque, is" Cyllan Apollinis urlies,
Et Scyron cepisse. Mea concussa putate
Proculuisse solo Lyrnessia mosniadextrd.
We have besides to consider, that whatever in this instance
has been given, has only been lent to a power whom we have
no reason to distrust. Even if a sum had been given to a much
larger amount, it would surely have been amply repaid by the
success which has attended the exertions of our allies, and the
important advantages which have been gained to the common
cause. In the course of discussion on this subject, frequent
mention has been made of the opinion of the public. The pub
lic are not so dead or so insensible as either to be ignorant of the
advantages which have been obtained, or ungrateful towards
those to whose gallant exertions they are indebted on' the present
occasion. There is not a man, even the meanest individual in
the country, who will not feel himself more than repaid for the
small quota which he will be required to bring forward in aid of
the public service, by the important benefits which have been
secured to the general interests of Europe. There is not, I will
venture to say, an Englishman who does not feel the most ardent
sympathy with the magnanimity, the resources, the spirit, and
perseverance which have been displayed by Austria in her recent
exertions, and who does not rejoice that the contributions of
England have been brought forward in aid of operations which
have been equally marked by their gallantry and success. I
will not think so ill of the good sense of my countrymen, as to
suppose that they can regret any trifling expense, which has been
the means of obtaining such signal advantages. The question
alone is, whether there is any doubt of the exigence of the
measure, whether there is any doubt of its necessity, and whether
the service would have been performed by a previous statement
to parliament.
Here Sir, let me state to this house, or rather repeat what I
have shortly stated on a former night . The house will recollect,
that from the principles on which I conceive, a government

18 MR. PITTS H>*<=. U,
should act, it never could have been in my contemplation, -or
that of his Majesty's ministers, under the vote of credit, to
propose advancing the whole of the sum which turned out to be
necessary for the emperor. That it was not my intention, is
proved by this circumstance, that at the very period of proposing
the vote of credit, a reserve was expressly made for a loan to be
specifically brought forward, and submitted to parliament, to a
much larger amount than the vote of credit. What inference
do I wish to draw from this ? First of all, that it is a pretty clear
and evident proof, that it hr reality appeared, by the Austrians
being so much in want, that his Majesty's ministers had an
impression of the necessity of assisting the emperor. Could they
have any motive to hold out a loan, if there was no such thing
in agitation ? What view could any government have in stating
the necessity of an Austrian loan, if they did not see the occasion
for one ? When we asked for the vote of credit, it was plain
we were not asking for a vote of credit for services unforeseen,
but that we intended to apply it as it has been applied. Gen
tlemen will recollect, that on the first loan of eighteen millions,
it was stated as uncertain the precise time it would be called for;
that the precise time depended on the result of an intercourse
between his Majesty and the emperor, without which itwas
impossible to settle the extent of it. But it is true, I felt that,
in consequence of the extraordinary extent of the drain of money,
some time would be necessary before the influx of trade would
be such as td render a measure of that kind practicable injts
execution, or safe in its impression ; for of all subjects, that
which relates to credit, or the stagnation of money, the delicacy
of which every man knows, is that in which it is necessary to
be particularly circumspect. Now, how does this stand ? I was
. sanguine that a much shorter interval would have diminished the
scarcity. Afterwards, at a much later period, I found that it
would be impossible to bring forward the loan. Under this im
pression, I did think it advisable to take the step I have taken, a
short time previous to the end of last parliament. How far that
ean be fairly imputed to me as a crime, is a question I shall hare

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES* 19
occasion to discuss. However^ this is the first principle of my
defence, that when the campaign was advancing, so that the
emperor could not wait for any proof of the reality of his hopes
of an increase of pecuniary supply, in conformity to what had
been done before, and according to principles recognized by
parliament, I thought it expedient, for the success of his arms,
to send the means of repelling the enemy.
The principal question is, whether this measure has deprived
you of any thing you possessed? whether any disadvantage has
been the consequence of it, so as to make our situation more
embarrassed now than it would have been some months ago, by
a loan taking place ? I believe the situation of mercantile men,
and the pecuniary state of the country, is more favourable now
than they were at the periods when the several remittances to
the emperor were issued. This I state not merely on the sug
gestions of any particular member of this house, not merely in
consequence of any discovered public opinion ; but I state it
on evident grounds of reason. Nor can I for a moment suppose
that the members of this house, that the public will long sus
pend the delegation of their assent to a measure founded equally
in the justice and expediency of the motives which gave it birth.
But however this may be, I have on this occasion the satisfaction
of knowing that I am not stating my own sentiments only, but
also those of the persons who were the contractors for the last
loan. The contractors for that loan themselves felt then, and
have since communicated to me, the inconveniences that had
resulted to commerce in general from the immense, but necessary
drains in the money market. They had felt that any specific
proposition to guarantee a fresh loan to the emperor would have
sensibly affected the money market: would have depreciated the
Funds, and depressed the public credit. Had I upon that occa
sion adopted tlie mode of a public loan; had I come to parlia
ment, when parliament first sat to deliberate on public measures;
had- 1, while the necessities of the empire and the dearest in
terests of Europe depended in some measure, .the one for relief,
the other for preservation, on the remittance of certain portions
C 2

20

MR. PITT'S PEC- i4'

of that sum of 1,200,000/. ; — had I in that eventful crisis" dbnfe
any thing that might, in its ultimate consequences, increase thfe
difficulties of that ally, endanger and risk the liberties of Europe,
what, let me ask, would have been the language of the honouf-
able gentleman, who has this night censured my conduct, and
made it the subject of a specific motion ? I repeat it : The per
sons best acquainted with the money market were, at the periods
I have mentioned, deeply impressed with a sense of its growing.
embarrassment, and seriously felt the inconveniencies necessarily
concomitant to a state of warfare. They felt those inconveni
encies, but they more than felt the justice of the contest which
had operated as the cause of them'. In their opinion, the pecu
niary situation of the country was such as would have rendered
the public avowal of any loan to the emperor exf remefy impolitic,
and by an ill-timed discussion of its propriety, have produced ;
those evils I have in part detailed. To them I submitted whether
a public loan would be prudent in such circumstances, but they
' Nwere unanimous in their preference of the adopted - mode. ' A
proof this, that I could have no intention to violate the consti
tution. That I had not hastily, and immaturely adopted tfie
alternative; that I made those preliminary arrangements; that
my enquiries on the subject were as general and earnest 'as' I
have this night avowed, is well known, not only to the indivi
duals with whom I consulted, but also to my colleagues in the'
ministry. I appear, without fear of being contradicted, I appeal
to those in my confidence, whether such were or such were not
my sentiments, whether such was or was not my conduct on
that occasion ? At this time th£ situation of the empire was also
so peculiar^ that his Majesty's servants could not but have a
strong and influencing sense of the impropriety of affording pub-"
lickly the aid that situation so much required. The arms of the
French republic were victorious in almost every quarter, the
empire threatened with destruction, and Europe with ruin.
This was, I own, the reverse of our once favourable hopes": from
the exertions of that ally our expectations had been- different;
-but could any temporary reverse of circumstances justify a mea-

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. ?i
sure .that must have entailed on that ally a permanent mischief?
Surely we, who had considered ourselves entitled to share in
the good fortune of the arms of Austria, would not justly have
separated our interests in her adversity. Surely that ally, of
whose good faith and candour, of whose steady attachment to
the principles of the alliance we had so inany and such splendid
proofs ; that ally, who had almost singly resisted the destructive
progress of an impetuous and enthusiastic enemy ; yes, the house
of Austria eminently merited our confidence and our esteem. But
these were not enough. The empire was in actual danger ; her
treasury exhausted; and many of her princes forced to abandon
her defence. It was in this conjuncture that his Majesty's
servants, faithful at least to their sense of the danger, afforded
to Germany that assistance which I am proud to say had been in.
3 great measure the means of saving not only thatparticular em
pire, but a va3t portion of Europe . Actuated by these consider?
ations, thus hurried by existing necessities, to adopt a particular
measure, I flatter myself few who hear me will in the end fail to
discover, that the act itself, even supposing it to be unconsti
tutional, could not be the result of a deliberate intention to violate
acts of parliament.
The right honourable gentleman has supposed that the mea
sure was now brought forward under cover of the glory of the
Austrian successes ; but I have to remind that honourable geRtle-f
man, and the house, that the resolution of his Majesty's mini
sters, to assist the emperor, was taken not under the flattering
phantom of delusive glory, not because the house of Austria was
resuming, under the auspices of one of its ijlustrions members,
Its former spirit; and had regained its ardour ; not because the
French had been forced to abandon some places, and retreat
from others in the German dominions ; but their resolution was
taken when minister? felt that they had an opportunity of giving
to the emperor, Europe and the country, the best pledge of their
sincerity, of their attention to their interests, of their individual
Integrity, and collective force. The resolution was not taken
without serious contemplation of the risk. It was not under-
c3

23

MR. PITT'S [Dec. 14,

taken without maturely considering every relation, in which it
could possibly connect itself with the constitution. It was not
undertaken in defiance of law, nor made a solitary exception to
all former usage. It was not undertaken to cripple our finances,
nor had it either prospectively, or retrospectively, any one thing
in common- with a deliberate insult to the house. But it was
undertaken in a way, and upon an emergency, which warranted
the measure. Even the measure was warranted by the former
opinions of my adversaries ; but especially by the then and pre
sent opinion of monied men. I shall perhaps be asked, what is
the difference between a loan in the manner that loan was trans
acted, and a loan granted in the old and popular way ? What
the difference between a direct and avowed disbursement of the
public money, and an indirect and concealed disbursement?
The former I shall, perhaps, be told, must have decreased the
pecuniary resources of the country equally with the latter ; and
have lessened, though in a secret manner, the general means of
commercial security. But to this I cannot concede, because the
reverse has been the fact. The fact has been, that by remitting
money to the emperor in that season of difficulty, of doubt and
danger, his Majesty's ministers have rendered less doubtful the
prospects of a safe and honourable peace. Had ministers on that
occasion, after being convinced themselves of the necessity and
justice of such assistance, and during the recess of parliament,
delayed the adoption of the conduct they have pursued, instead
of affording to the emperor, the enemy, and Europe, a proof of
superior wisdom, and superior resources, it would be a proof
of the want of both, by giving the money publicly. By dis
cussing the subject in parliament at, the earliest period, if such a
discussion could be entered into, not, only public credit would
have been injured, but you would have told the enemy that your
difficulties obliged you to stint the acknowledged wants of your
allies. To those who thought worse of our resources than I did,
to the public mind in general, such a measure in such a crisis
would, I know, have been a cause not of rejoicing, but of sor-r
row ; not a source pf pleasure, but of pain. Every man who,

179S-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 28
Wished well to his country, every man sincerely attached to the
principles of the constitution, instead of approving of that as
sistance being afforded originally as a loan, would have said, No,
do not commit yourself to your ally, so as to make your neces
sities a test of his. If, instead of endeavouring to poise and re
move the difficulty as I have done, this house had so passed a
public loan, such must have been the consequence. I am cer
tain that had parliament been acquainted with the danger of our
ally, and had even determined to give the necessary assistance,
the publicity of the measure would have defeated the object. So
that whether we had or had not been reduced to the alternative
-of refusing assistance altogether, the event must have .produced
collateral mischiefs. I may therefore, I think, ask, Ought you
to yield to the pressure of temporary difficulty, and abandon your
ally at a moment when such a step may be decisive of his fate ?
Ought you, on the other hand, completely to pledge yourselves
to grant a pecuniary assistance which, in the first instance,
may be attended with considerable inconvenience, and the influ
ence of which, on the future course of events, you are unable to
ascertain ? Pledges of aid, and of instant aid, his Majesty's ser
vants had certainly seen good reason to give to the emperor.
These pledges had been given long before the meeting of parlia
ment, and might justly be considered as very eminently conducive
to every measure and every success which has been since adopted
and experienced. It is, I know, one among the grounds on
which the right honourable gentleman has brought his accusation,
that a part of the mfyiey was sent previously to the meeting
of parliament, and another ground, that money has been
sent since its meeting. I own, the advance to the emperor
consists of sums sent since the meeting of the present parlia
ment; but I do contend, that the pledges of these sums were the
means by which the, house of Austria endured adversity, and re
trieved its prosperity. Had the emperor, in July and August
last, had no assurance of your assistance; I will not say we should
have been at this moment a ruined people, but I will say, that
c,4

24

MR. PITT'S ' CDec. 14,

the pecuniary security of England, and the territorial security o£
Austria, had been diminished, ' if not utterly destroyed.
On a former night, an honourable friend of mine used as aq
argument, the effect which he 'thought a public discussion of the
measure would have to depreciate the credit of the country ; and
I own I have not yet heard any thing that could induce me to
think differently on that subject. The effect of a knowledge o^
the pecuniary distresses of the emperor, joined to the difficulty
which a prompt supply would have produced, could not fail to bear
with peculiarly 'embarrassing weight on the course of exchange.
Whereas the transmission of the sum of 1,200,000/. indifferent
sums, and at different periods, ' tended greatly to relieve the em
peror, and preserve the credit of this country from that depres
sion, which the same sum granted at once, and in the form of a
public loan, would have occasioned. I need not therefore enu
merate the particular dates of those bills. Our assurance to
Austria was not confined to the meeting of parliament, not sub-'
jected to the delays of several months of recess, but it was given
with reference to every situation of difficulty or danger in which
the arms of the emperor might be placed by their resistance to
the arms of France. When the Austrian troops were retreating
from their severe and glorious combat with the French republi
cans, they surely merited every assistance this country could af
ford them ; but when, in the career of a brilliant series of the
most splendid victories, those gallant men were urged by their
emulation of the intrepidity of their invincible Officers to acts of
unparalleled prowess, his Majesty's servants found themselves
called upon, most particularly palled upon, to aid and promote
their views, to soften their calamities, arid to afford them means
of securing their important conquests. On the conviction of the
propriety of these sentiments; and of such conduct, it was, that the
King's ministers had acted. Of the number of those who had been
guided by these sentiments, I, Sir, certainly .was one, not the least
active to provide, nor, ' I trust, the least' vigilant to manage pru
dently that pecuniary stimulus which, during the recess, and at
other periods, was given to the arms of the empire. Our conduct,

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 25
therefore, Sir, does not respect the months of October, of No
vember, nor December in particular, but it had a clear and un
erring relation to every crisis and circumstance, to every moment
of danger. In truth, the acts themselves were acts performed
distinctly in compliance with solemn engagements ; they were
acts in execution of pledges which had been previously given.
Acting during the recess from the conviction that these pledges
were given by the letter and the spirit of the existing treaties,
acting after the parliament was met under the sanction of these
treaties, with no intention then, and surely none now, of setting
up their own judgments as the standard of, or superior to, the
judgment of the house of commons, ministers, I think, may
be permitted to avail themselves of the exceptions of all similar
treaties in favour of similar conduct. As to the transaction It
self, no separation could fairly be made of the necessity which
gave existence to Jhe measure, and the motives which influenced
its adoption. Even supposing the judgment of parliament could
have been taken, the state of Germany was such, as could not
have left gentlemen one moment to their doubts whether or no
it was proper to assist the emperor. What ministers have done
ip pursuance of their pledge, was, however, done in a great mea
sure before parliament could have been assembled to consider its
expediency. Qf the nature and effect of the services performed
l?y the emperor, gentlemen may very readily judge. They have
jhem recorded in the annals of very jrecent periods, annals the
most brilliant, perhaps, in the history of the world. Thus, whe
ther we judge' of the services of Austria in whole, or only in
part, I think gentlemen must concede to me that the services
of the last three months have been at least such as merit our par
ticular approbation. On this part of the subject I have, there
fore, at present, scarcely any thing more to remark. I have, in
the best manner I am abje, stated to the house the circumstance
of that situation which rendered it impossible for Austria to con
tinue her warlike operations without assistance from this country.
I have likewise endeavoured to render my own conceptions of the.
act of sending money to an ally without the previous consent of

2(5

MR. PITTS CDbc- 14'

parliament. In addition to these, I have submitted to the house
those principles, in the practical exertion of which I pursued that
line of conduct now so much the subject of the animadversions
of the right honourable gentleman.
With this species of defence, I might in spme measure rest
satisfied: but-I should still be wanting in duty to myself, did I
not, before I sat down this night, desire the house to keep in
memory the principles I have thus stated, as being those on
which I acted ; if I did not desire the house to compare these}
principles with my conduct. As to the question of extraordina
ries, I have heard- the idea suggested, and something like an
argument attempted to be deduced from it, that if its spirit be
adhered to, no part of a vote of credit can be employed to pay
foreign troops. I have heard too, that of such an application of
the public money so voted, our annals scarcely afford any, and
if any, not apposite precedents. Sir, I think I can instance a
number of precedents of this kind ; I can instance to this house,
and for the information of the right honourable gentleman, that
votes of credit v/ere appropriated by our ancestors to the pay.
ment of foreign troops. In times before the revolution, but of
those times genilemen seem unwilling to say much, in the reign
immediately before the revolution, this very thing had been
done by the crown ; but, Sir, in periods subsequent to the revo
lution, in periods not the least favoured in our annals, although
certainly not altogether free from the stains of calumny, but
especially of party violence, in the reign of King William, during
the year 1701, accompanied by circumstances of a singularly
important and curious nature, the parliament voted an extra sum
for the payment of foreign forces. This sum was voted not re
gularly as a vote of credit, but it succeeded the granting of a
vote of credit, and was a measure which, although it occasioned
some trifling opposition, was carried unanimously. Such was
the conduct ot our ancestors at the revolution. In the reign of
Queen Ann, a reign reprehended undoubtedly by some, a reign
which had unhappily encouraged, if not occasioned and 'fo
mented those differences which rendered the Tpries so implaca-.

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 27
ble against the Whigs ; in that reign, thus chequered by the
persecutions, sanguinary persecutions, first of the Whigs, but
latterly, and I will confess with not less cruelty, begun and
continued by the Tories : in this reign, and in the years 1704
and 1705, both subsidies and grants had been employed in paying
foreign forces. This too was done without the authority of par
liament. In 1706, a transaction more directly characteristic of
this, for which the ministers of the present day are censured,
was publicly avowed, and as publicly discussed ; yet it seems
the right honourable gentleman had over-looked it. This at
least seems to be the case ; or, if known, he certainly ought to
have abandoned liis assertion. There is to be met with in the
annals of the parliament of that day, an account of three different
sums, each considered, by the opposition of that day, as viola
tions of the constitution^-a remittance to the Duke of Savoy, to
the Emperor, and to Spain. A sum too had been paid in the
same manner to the Landgrave of Hesse, for a corps of his
troops then in the pay of England. All these sums were not
voted regularly after the specific propositions, submitted for that
purpose to the houss, but were remitted to those sovereigns
without the previous consent of parliament. Not even estimates
of the services, for which the sums had been paid, were laid
before the house till six weeks after its meeting. The sum sent
to the emperor was peculiarly distinguished — it had been trans
mitted, not at the close, not during the recess, of that session in
which it was first announced to parliament, but before the end of
the preceding session. These proceedings did certainly attract no
tice. The house of commons and the public had been ad
dressed on the unconstitutionality of the measure ; then as now
there had been employed every effort which ingenuity could
suggest; every vehicle of public communication rendered a
vehicle of asperity and cebsure on the conduct of ministers. It
became the subject of a solemn discussion — a discussion, appa
rently not less vehement, than it was laboured and profuse. But
how, Sir, did the ministers of that day retire from the combat ?
Did they retire overwhelmed with the virulence and abuse, the

28 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 14,
censure of the discerning and temperate members of that parlia
ment ? Or were those their actions distinguished by the appro
bation of the commons of Great Britain ? Sir, the minister of
that day had the satisfaction to see the attack of his adversaries
repelled, and their expressions of censure changed to approba
tion. That minister, Sir, heard his conduct applauded, and the
journals of this house were made to bear record that the sense of
its members was, that the sums advanced to the emperor on
that occasion had been productive not only of the preservation of
the empire, but had also supported and maintained the interests
of Europe. In the year 1718, in the beginning of the reign of
George the First, an instance of the application of the public
money occurred, which, though not so analogous as the last, I
think it right to mention. A message had been received irom
his Majesty, soliciting the aid -of the commons to make such an
augmentation of the actual forces of. the country as might be
deemed necessary to place it in a respectable state of defence ;
andthat because therehad been an appearance of an invasion. — At
this time his Majesty takes Dutch troops into his pay, and the
money voted to raise and maintain native troops is disbursed for
the use of a foreign corps. It is true this body of Dutch troops
were landed in England, and their services confined to it ; but
not even these affected much the application of the fact as a pre
cedent. However, Sir, in the year 1734, a period nearer our
own times, a general vote of credit was granted. That vote of
credit was applied on such occasions, and for such purposes as
might at any time, during its existence, arise out of the exi
gencies of the time. On the 1 8th of February of the subsequent
year, a vote of credit was also granted, and a treaty concluded
with Denmark. And, Sir, if I have not totally misconceived
the passage of our parliamentary history where these facts are
stated, this last, as well as the vote of credit immediately pre
ceding it, was applied to purposes in their nature not unlike
those to which necessity impelled the ministers of the present
day to apply the vote of 1796. I might also refer gentlemen to
another instance of an advance to foreign troops, An advance tot

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 29
the Duke of Arenberg, commander of the Austrian forces, in
the ye'a*r 1 7-12, was noticed in debate, and censured in the ad
ministration of Mr. Ptilham — a name this as dear to the friends of
constitutional liberty as perhaps any that could be mentioned : but
the enquiry was avoided by moving the previous question. It
happened, however, that, not long after, the same question was
made the subject of a specific discussion. It appeared that' the
advance had been made under the authority of an assurance ex.
pressed by Lord Carteret, and not in consequence of any previous
consent of parliament ; but it appeared also that the progress
of the Austrian troops was considerably accelerated by the in
fluence of that aid, and their subsequent successes owing chiefly
to it. The vote of censure, therefore, which had been founded
on the act of Lord Carteret, was amended, and the advance de
clared necessary to the salvation of the empire. But, Sir, let us
compare the crisis of 1796 with that of 1787, when the expenses
incurred by our endeavours to protect Holland were recognized
tinder the head of secret services. This,' loo, was an unanimous
recognition of the act which, had it been the offspring of 179^,
the right honourable gentleman, influenced by his new opinions,
would, I have no doubt, marked with his disapprobation ; but
so stood the fact then.
The right honourable gentleman avoids no opportunity to ex
press his disrespect for the memory of the last parliament. But
Surely he ought to recollect, that> although he has often told us
that the last parliament completely undermined the constitution,
there yet remain principles for which the right honourable gen
tleman thinks it his duty to contend, under the sanction of
which, he is yet permitted to accuse his Majesty's ministers as
criminals for doing that which necessity provoked, and which
precedents warrant. Undoubtedly, Sir, I think that whether
the people of England will hereafter approve of the conduct of
opposition as constitutional conduct, they will admit that it is a
t1 igilant opposition. On the present occasion, however, much of
that vigilance seems to me to have been exerted in v&l. Tliey have
.not, with all their industry, fallen even in the way" of one pre-

30 MR. PITT'S [fee. 14
cedent, that might have induced some little relaxation of their
inordinate zeal. They have not discovered that the aot they
have marked with every species of obloquy, of which language is
capable, is an act that has been again and again approved of. It
is even within the admitted principle of successive parliaments.
But the members who sat in the last parliament have not forgot
that, when a loan of four millions and a half was proposed' to be
granted to the emperor, the intention of granting that loan was,
known as early" as February 1795. A message had been received*
from his Majesty, stating that a negotiation was pending with
the emperor to maintain 200,000 men. The loan to be granted
when the negotiation succeeded, and when it failed, to be men
tioned. Soon after the answer to this message was communi
cated to the throne, a motion was made for an account of
250,000/. advanced to the emperor in May 1795 ; and again a
similar motion was made for an account of 300,000/. also ad
vanced to the emperor in the month of May following. With
respect to these sums, it was agreed by the house before the loan
was debated, that they might be afterwards made good out of
the loan. This, Sir, I have stated to shew that the members
who sat in the last parliament carfnot be altogether ignorant of
the principles of the constitution. After the negociation was
concluded, the loan was debated ; the house was divided, but
no objection was made to these advances. On the subject of
the Prince of Conde's army being supplied with money by this
country, I can only say, that whatever sums that army has as
yet received have been paid, on account of services rendered, as
forming a part of the Austrian forces. The circumstance of a
part of the 1,200,0001. stated as being sent to the emperor,
being afterwards received in this country in part payment of the
Interest due on the second Austrian loan, is also easily accounted
for, these payments, on account of being in their nature the
same, as if the emperor, instead of being so accommodating to
himself as to pay the money, by his agent, on the spot, had or
dered it to be. sent to Vienna, and transmitted by the same post
to this court, r

179(3-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 3l
I may now, Sir, I think be permitted to ask on what principle
of justice a criminal charge can be brought against me for merely
having followed the uniform tenour of precedent, and the esta
blished line of practice ? , By what interpretation of a candid and
liberal mind can I be judged guilty of an attempt, wantonly to
violate the constitution ? I appeal to the right honourable gen
tleman himself, who is not the last to contend for the delicacy
which ought to be used in imputing criminal motives to any
individual, and to urge in the strongest terms the attention
which ought to be shewn to the candid and impartial adminis
tration of justice. In what country do we live ? and by what
principles are we to be tried ? By the maxims of natural justice
and constitutional law, or by what new code of some revolu
tionary tribunal ? Not longer than a year and a half since, the
same principle was adopted, and suffered to pass without any
animadversion ; and now, at a crisis of ten-fold importance, and
where the measure has not out-run the exercise of a sound dis
cretion, it is made the foundation of a criminal charge. We
are accused with a direct and wanton attack upon the constitu
tion. It is not supposed that we have been actuated by any but
the blackest and most malignant motives. We are not allowed
the credit of having felt any zeal, for the interest of our country,
nor of those advantages which the measure has produced to the
common cause.
I have now weighed the whole merits of the transaction before
the house, and with them I am well content to leave the deci
sion. While we claim a fair construction on the principles and
Intentions which have guided our conduct, if it shall appear that
it has in the smallest instance deviated from any constitutional
principle, we must submit to the consequence, whatever be the
censure or the punishment. It is our duty, according to the
best of our judgment, to consult for the interest of the country ;
it is your sacred and peculiar trust to preserve inviolate the prin
ciples of tlje constitution. I throw myself upon your justice,
prepared in every case to subfliit to your decision ; but with
considerable confidence, that I shall experience your appi oba-

32 MR. PITT'S [Die. 14,
tion. If I should' be disappointed, I will not say that the disap
pointment will not be heavy, and the mortification severe; at
any rate however it will to me be matter of consolation, that I
have not, from any apprehension of personal consequences,!
neglected to pursue that line of conduct which I conceive to be
-essential to the interests of the country arid of Europe. But
while I bow with the most perfect subriiission to the determi
nation of the house, I cannot but remark on the extraordinary
language which has been used on this question. Ministers haVe
been broadly accused with a wanton and a fnalignant desire to
violate the constitution : it has been stated that no other motive
could possibly have actuated their conduct. If a charge of such
malignant intention had been brought against men, who have
affirmed the present war to be neither just nor necessary, and
who on that ground' cannot be supposed friendly to its success ;
who have extolled, nay, even exulted in the prodigies of French
valour; who have gloried in the successes of the foes of civil
liberty, the hostile disturbers of the peace of Europe, men who
blasphemously denied the existence of the Deity; and who had
rejected and trampled on every law, moral and divine; who
have exclaimed against the injustice of bringing to trial persons
who had associated to overawe the legislature ; those who gravely
and vehemently asserted, that it was a question of prudence,
rather than a question of morality, whether an act of the legis
lature should be resisted; those who were anxious to ex
pose and aggravate every defect of the constitution ; to repro
bate every measure adopted for its preservation, and to obstruct
every proceeding pf the executive government to ensure the
success of the contest in which we are engaged in common with
our allies; I say, if such a charge of deliberate and deep-rooted
malignity were brought against persons of this description, I
should conceive that even then the rules of candid and charitable
interpretation would induce us to hesitate in admitting its reality;
snuch more when it is brought against individuals, whose con
duct, I trust, has exhibited the reverse of the picture I have
now drawn, I appeal to the justice of the house, I rely on>

17960 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 33
theircandour ; but, to gentlemen who can suppose ministers ca
pable of those motives which have been imputed to them on this
occasion, it must be evident that I can desire to make no such"
appeal. An amendment was afterwards moved by Mr. Bfagge, to leave out from
the first word " that", and to insert, " the measure of advancing the several
sums of money, which appear, from the accounts presented to the House
in this session of parliament, to have been issued for the service of the Em
peror, though not to be drawn into precedent, but upon occasions of special''
necessity, was, under the peculiar circumstances of the case, a justifiable and
proper exercise of the discretion vested in his Majesty's ministers by the
vote of credit and calculated to produce consequences, which have proved
highly advantageous to the common cause and to the general interests of Eu
rope :" which upon a division was carried;
Ayes  285
Noes  - 81

December 30, 1796.
Mr. Pitt moved the order of the day for taking into consideration his Ma
jesty's message, respecting the failure of the negotiation for peace that had
been carrying on with the French Government :
" GEORGE R.
" It is with the utmost concern that his Majesty acquaints the House of
Commons, that his earnest endeavours to effect the restoration of peace
have been unhappily frustrated, and that the negociation, in which he
was engaged, has been abruptly broken off by the peremptory refusal of
the French Government to treat, except upon a basis evidently inadmissi
ble, and by their having in consequence required his Majesty's Plenipo
tentiary to quit Paris within 48 hours.
" His Mujesty has directed the several memorials and papers which have
been exchanged in the course of the late discussion, and the account
transmitted to his Majesty of its final result, to be laid before the
House. 'f From these papers his Majesty trusts, it will be proved to the whole
world that his conduct has been guided by a sincere desire to effect the
restoration of peace on principles suited to the relative situation of the
belligerent powers, and essential for {he permanent interests of this king- '
dom, and the general security of Europe; whilst. his enemies have ad-
VOL. in. D

34 MR. PITT'S. [Dec. 30,,
vanced pretensions at once inconsistent <with those objects, unsupported
even on the grounds on which they were professed to rest, and repug
nant both to the svstem established by repeated treaties, and to the prin-
cjpks and practice which, have, hitherto regulated the intercourse of inde
pendent nations.
" In this situation, his Majesty has the consolation of reflecting, thai
the continuance of the calamities of war can be imputed only to the un
just tyd exorbitant views of his enemies ; and his Majesty, looking for
ward with anxiety to the moment when they may be disposed to act on
different principles, places in the mean time the fullest reliance, under
the. protection of Providence, on. the wisdom and firmness of his parlia
ment, on the tried valour of his forces by sea and land, and on the zeal,
public spirit, and resources of his kingdorns, for vigorous arid effectual
support in the prosecution of a contest, which it does not depend on his
-Majesty to terminate, and which involves in it the seeprity and perma
nent interests of this country, and of Europe. G. R."
The message being read from the chair, Mr. Pitt addressed the House to
the following effect:
I am perfectly aware, Sir, in rising upon the present occasion,
that the motion which I shall have the honour to propose
to the house, in consequence of his Majesty's most gra
cious message and founded upon the papers with which it
was accompanied, involves many great and important con
siderations. Whatever difference of opinion may be entertain
ed upon some of the topics which they' contain, I am sure
there will exist only one sentiment with regard to the event which
they announce. We must all concur in that deep and poignant
regret which is naturally excited by. the information that the ne
gotiation, in which his Majesty was engaged, is abruptly broken
off; a negotiation by which we fondly wished, and perhaps might
have sanguinely hoped, that upon terms of peace, which it would
have been wise and prudent, and honourable in this country to
have embraced, we should at length have been enabled to have .'
retired from a contest undertaken in compliance with the faith of
treatie'sand for the defence of our allies; undertaken to repel
the daring unprincipled., and unprovoked aggression of the
enemy ; undertaken for the maintenance of our own indepen
dence and the support of our own rights ; undertaken for the

1796.1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 35
preservation of our constitution and laws, and in obedience to
those principles of policy by which die conduct of England has
so long and so gloriously been directed ; undertaken from a union
of all these causes and a combination of all these motives, to a
degree for which the annals oi the world present no parallel.
From the documents of which the house are now in possession,
and from the proceedings of which they are now enabled to
judge, I trust it will appear, that if it was thought necessary to
embaTk in the contest upon such urgent grounds and such pow
erful considerations, bis Majesty's ministers have evinced a perseJ
verance equally sincere in their endeavours to restore peace to
Europe upon fair, just, and honourable grounds, in spite of the
discouragements under which they laboured, and the difficulties
with which they had to encounter. To whatever cause, however,
the failure of the negotiation is to be ascribed, it must be matter
ef regret to all, and to none more than to myself. Whatever
subject of personal anxiety I may have had, in addition to the
common feelings of humanity and for the general happiness of
mankind, my sentiments are only those of disappointment. But I
have the satisfaction of knowing that this feeling of disappoint
ment is unaccompanied with any reflection, unmingled with re
gret, unembittered with despondency, as it must be evident to
the world, that the event which we deplore can be attributed on
ly to the pride, the ambition, the obstinacy, and the arrogant
pretensions of the enemy. I feel this consolation annexed to
the task which we have now to perform, that we can come for
ward, not unaware of the difficulty, yet not dismayed by the
prospect, prepared to review the situation in which we are plac
ed, to ask what are the causes from which the failure of the ne
gotiation proceeded, what opinion it authorises us to form, what
conduct it requires us to pursue, what duty it imposes upon us to
discharge, and what efforts we are called upon to exert in our
own defence, and what support and assistance policy demands
that we should grant to our allies for the vigorous and effectual
prosecution of a contest • in which we are compelled to per
severe. ' © 2

3C MR. PITT'S [Dec. 30,,
As to the next point which I shall have to consider, I cannot
expect equal unanimity ; not, however, that it is much more
complicated, although undoubtedly not so self-evident. I allude:
to the failure of the negotiation, in point of terms, and which
renders a continuance of the war necessary; but have we not
the consolation that the aggression has uniformly been on the
side of the enemy, and that nothing has been wanting on the
part of this country to restore peace, on the grounds on which
peace alone would be desirable ? When we wish for peace, we
wish for a secure and permanent peace, and the secure and
permanent possession of those blessings with which peace is ac
companied. If, in that necessity to which we are now subjected, of pur
suing with vigour the war in which we are engaged, we can look-
for consolation, amid the sacrifices with which it will be attended,; ,
to the original aggression of the enemy by which it was occa
sioned, to the consideration, that no endeavour has been omitted
which can evince our earnest and sincere desire of peace, and
that this sentiment still predominates to put an end to the contest
upon those principles which alone can render that event desira
ble; which can secure a peace, safe, honourable, and permanent ;
which can restore those blessings which it is calculated to pro
duce, and those advantages for which it is worthy to be desired ;
— if we have- adhered to these considerations, we have done
every thing which it was in our power to perform. We may
lament the failure of his Majesty's exertions upon this occasion,
but at least we have not to regret that they have been wholly
without advantage. They must prove to which party the pro
longation of the war is to be imputed ; they will tend at once to
unite England and to divide France ; they will animate our en-
deavours with new energy and new confidence, while they must
have the effect to enfeeble and to embarrass the operations of the
enemy. The question is not merely how far his Majesty's mi
nisters and those to whose province it is committed to judge of
the terms upon which peace ought to be concluded, and what
offers are to be proposed, (a duty always attended with difficulty,,

i795.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 37
but in the present circumstances peculiarly embarrassed and un
usually critical) acted properly in the conditions upon which
they were willing to treat : but after the propositions which were
made had been rejected ; when, instead of yours, terms utterly
inadmissible and glaringly extravagant were substituted ; when,
to a peremptory rejection was added the refusal of all farther dis
cussion ; when the negotiation was abruptly broken off, and his
Majesty's ambassador was sent away ; when all this is accompa
nied with a proceeding still more insulting than the original
dismissal, when a condition is reserved, which is not even the
semblance, but which stands undisguised as the most glaring
mockery of negotiation, it remains for the house to judge whe
ther anything has been wanting upon the part of ministers, whe
ther any thing more is required to display the sentiments and
the views of the enemy. It remains to be seen whether there
are any gentlemen in this' house, who, as friends to peace, as
friends to their country, who, consistent with the principles of
statesmen, or the feelings of patriots, can discover any alter
native in the ultimate line of conduct .to be pursued. From the
manner in which what I have now said has been received, I
hope it will not be incumbent upon me to dwell more particu
larly upon this topic, ' before I advert to others which come
previously to be considered.
> The two leading points which arise from the views connected
with the subject in discussion, are, the sentiment which it is
proper to express upon the steps to be taken by 'his Majesty for
the purpose of obtaining peace, and then, combining the offers
made with the rejection of the enemy, and the circumstances
with which it was accompanied, what'sentiment parliament and
the nation ought to entertain, with regard to the conduct neces
sary to be adopted for our own security, for maintaining the
cause of our allies, and protecting the independence of Europe.
After the communications which have already been made of the
former steps taken by this country, and on the part of the
emperor, for the purpose of bringing the contest to a termina.
tion, it would be unnecessary to dwell upon the particulars of
d 3

38 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 30,
these transactions. J would beg leave, however, to remind the
house, that, in March 1796, offers were made to the French
government, by his Majesty's envoy at Basle, Mr. Wickham, to
treat for a general peace, in a manner which' of all others had
been most usual in a complicated war, a mode sanctioned by
custom and justified by experience, which had been commonly
found successful in attaining the objects for which it was intended j
yet this propqsal met with a refusal, and was affected to be
received as a mark of insincerity. We find the enemy advancing
a principle, to which I shall afterwards more particularly advert;
so manifestly unjust, and so undeniably absurd, that whatever
difference of opinion subsisted upon other points, there was nq
man living had the temerity to support it. The question upon,
the former discussions to which this transaction gave rise, was,
whether the principle to which I allude was fairly imputed.. In
the answer to Mr. Wickham's note, wfeen we found the govern
ment of France advancing a law qf her own internal constitution*
to cancel the obligation of treaties, and to annul the public,
law of Europe, the only doubt was, whether it was fair and
candid, upon such a foundation, to ascribe to the directory
the reality of such a pretension. The principle itself I am sure
can never be successfully defended upon any law of nations or
any argument of reason. The emperor too, in spite of tha
refusal with which the application of this country had been
received ; in spite of the discouragement which a new attempt
presented ; did, at the opening of the campaign, renew the
offers for negotiating a general peace upon the principles upon
which the proposition of this country had been founded. In,
the course of this eventful year, so chequered with remarkable
vicissitudes, before the successes of the enemy, which unfortu
nately so rapidly followed the breaking of the armistice, and
before the glorious tide of victory by which the latter period of
the campaign had been distinguished, many instances occurred
for the application of their principle. The proposition of the,
emperor, however, was received nearly in the same manner:
with our own ; and even the answer which it produced was coin

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. Sg
ceived in the same tone, and conveyed the same unfounded
imputation, excepting that there were some topics with regard
to points of etiquette and differences about form, which, upon
the application of this country, had hot been observed till they
were renewed upon the perusal of repdrfs of certain proceedings
in this house, whether faithfully detailed or not I will riot en
quire. The answer which the emperor received was, that lie
might send a plenipotentiary to Paris to treat for a peace, con
sistent with the laws and constitution of \h6 republick. Not
withstanding the discouragement which the repeated experience
of former disappointments was calculated to produce, his Ma^
jesty, retaining that desire of putting a period fo hostilities by
which he was uniformly animated, felt some hope ffoin the
distress to which France was reduced, and from the embarrass
ments under which she laboured, that a renewed proposal would,
be Welcomed with a more friendly reception. To shew that the
inveterate disposition which the enemy had manifested did not
discourage his Majesty from giving another chance of success
to his ardent wishes, without having witnessed any indication
upon their part of sentiments more pacific or more conciliatory,
without their having discovered any retraction of the principles
Which had been advanced in reply to his first proposal, his Ma
jesty determined to try the experiment of a new attempt o£
negotiation, to the circumstances of which I shall again recur.
Upon many occasions during the present contest it had been
discussed, whether it was politic for this country to appeal to
negotiation in whatever circumstances the enemy were placed.
Gentlemen on the other side were accustomed to press the argu
ment, that in no situation could negotiation be humiliating. If a sin
cere desire of peace, it was said, does exist, there are modes of as
certaining the dispositions of the enemy, of making your wishes
known, and making advances to the attainment of the dbject,
without involving any question of etiquette or provoking any dis
cussion of forms. — Of all the modes then recommended, that
of application through the medium of a neutral minister was the
most approved. After the reception which the successive pro-
I) 4

40

MR. PITT'S [Deo. 30,

posals of this country, and of the emperor, received at Basle, the
mode of application by a neutral power, by that very power which
had been again and again cited as an instance of the good faith of
the French government, and their respect for independent states,
was at length' adopted, and the Danish minister was pitched
upon for this purpose. In this proceeding it was not the object
to announce on what terms this country was willing tq conclude
a peace, not to avoid any objections of etiquette, not to evade
any discussion of preliminary formalities, but merely to ascertain
the point, whether the directory would grant passports to a con
fidential person whom his Majesty was willing to send to Paris.
The application was accordingly made by the Danish resident,
and, after an interval of some days' delay, this step was allowed
to pass in silence ;¦ to a written application no answer was re
turned, and at last a verbal notification was given, that the
directory could not listen to any indirect application through
the medium of neutral powers, and that a plenipotentiary might
proceed to the frontiers, and there wait for the necessary
passports, >
J would now ask the house to judge, if it had really been the
wish of his Majesty's ministers to avail themselves of the plausi
ble grounds for proceeding no farther, which were then presented,
which could so easily be justified by a reference to the conduct
of the French government, and by the dispositions by which
experience had proved them to be guided, would they have been
very eager again to try the issue of new attempts ? But even to
this they submitted, and by a flag of truce sent to the governor
of Calais, directly demanded the necessary passports. — The di
rectory, now feeling the eagerness with which this country pur
sued the desire of terminating the contest by negotiation, and,
foreseeing the odium with which the refusal would be attended,
were -compelled, I repeat, were compelled, to. grant the pass
ports, and thus to afford to his Majesty the opportunity of pre
senting the outline of the terms upon which peace might be re
stored. Under circumstances like these, with the experience of
an uniform tenor of conduct which testified the very reverse of

1796.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 41
any disposition to a cordial co-operation for the re-establish
ment of peace, there was little hope that the French government
would keep pace with the offers proposed by this country, and
it was foreseen that it would rest with his Majesty, after stimu
lating their reluctant progress through every part of the discus
sion, to encounter the farther difficulty of proposing specific
terms. In this embarrassing situation the first thing to be done was
to endeavour to establish what is at Once conformable to reason,
sanctioned by usage, and agreeable to universal practice since
negotiation was first reduced to a system ; I mean some basis
upon which the negociation was to be founded. How usual such
a practice had been, it would be unnecessary to argue ; how rea
sonable, it would be impossible to dispute ; as it must be evidenl
that such a mode of proceeding must conduce to abridge the de
lay with which a discussion of this kind is apt to be attended, to
afford a clue to that labyrinth of complicated interests that are to
be considered, and to supply some rule of stating mutual propo
sitions. It would be equally unnecessary, as this mode was to
be adopted in a negociation where we, for ourselves directly,
had so little to ask, and for our allies so much, and where the,
interests of Europe demanded such important claims ; where we
had 'to treat with a country which had advanced principles that
destroyed all former establishments ; that cancelled all received
laws and existing treaties ; that overthrew all experience of past
proceeding. This basis then was to be a basis of compensation,
not of ambition or aggrandizement, but that compensation which
was due for the conquests achieved by the valour and perseve
rance of our forces from the acquisitions gained by the enemy ;
a basis than this I am confident more equitable, or more just,
better calculated to secure the interests of our allies, to maintain
the independence of Europe, or more honourable to this country,
never was proposed. But whether this basis be reasonable or
not, is not now so much the enquiry, as another proof of the
views of the enemy is disclosed, and a fresh instance of the in
veterate disposition of the French government is displayed. Be
fore any explicit answer to the basis proposed was returned ; when

4S MR. PITT'S [Dec. 30,
Jt was understood that it was to be rejected, Lord Malmesbury is
required, within twenty-four hours, to present his ultimatum.
It appears, however, from the able manner in which Lord
Malmesbury conducted himself upon this demand, that this de
mand was not insisted upon, and to his explanation, they replied
only by an evasive answer, which announced their refusal of the
basis proposed, and intimated the extravagant pretensions they
were desirous to substitute. I will now put to the recollection
of the house the public discussions, to which the subject of the
basis of negociation presented to the French government gave
rise. I will not say that the public was unanimous, nor will I
pretend to decide in what proportions it was divided. None,
howevfer, doubted that this basis would not be agreed to. In the
public discussion to which the plan was subjected (by this I do
not mean parliamentary discussions) and in the writings which it
produced, particularly in the metropolis, the argument main
tained was, that the principle was unreasonable, and ought not
to have been offered. The directory, however, thought proper to
accept what it was argued in this country ought to have been re
fused, and the principle of compensation was admitted.
Having, I trust, shewn therefore, from the extorted confes
sion which arises out of every statement, that the basis of com
pensation was accepted, there follow the particular terms, as far
as they were the subject of negotiation. It is a point well un
derstood that the final terms to be considered as binding upon the
parties, never form a part of the original proposition. What,
however, is the case here ? When the first advances were made
by this country, they were met by no corresponding offers by the
directory, every difficulty that was started and removed, prepared
only new cavils; the demands made by us were accompanied by
no disclosure of the terms to which they would accede. After a
reluctant admission of the basis, they insisted upon a specific
statement of the objects of compensation. Under circumstances
similar to those upon which the negociation was begun, the
difficulties with which it is attended must be obvious, and the-
eorornon practice has been, as far as possible, to divide them, t»

1796] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 4a
render the statement of terms mutual, to.give reciprocally, and
at the same time, the explanations, the concessions, and the de
mands upon which each party is disposed to insist. The propri
ety of this is obvious. Without such a mode of proceeding it is
impossible to know what value the one sets upon a particular con
cession, or a particular acquisition, and upon what conditions
this is to be abandoned, and how the other is to be compensated.
This difficulty obtains in all negotiations, more particularly
where doubts are entertained of the sincerity of the party with
whom you have to deal, but most of all when no advance, no reci
procal offer is made. How difficult then must it have been un
der all the circumstances of this case to produce specific terms
with any probability of success or advantage. Yet the same mo
tives which had induced his Majesty on former occasions to sur
mount the obstacles presented by the enemy, induced him here
likewise to remove every pretence of cavil. Plans were given in,
signed by Lord Malmesbury, stating likewise terms for the allies
of this eountry. In the outline, two things are to be kept sepa
rate and distinct, — the compensations demanded for our allies,
and those which were intended to protect the balance of Europe.
I need not argue again that a basis of compensation is reason
able; — that I am entitled to assume as admitted: but to whati
enormous extent it was retracted, I am now to state. During
that period of adverse fortune which has since by the valour and
glory of the-gallant Imperial army so remarkably been retrieved,
considerable possessions belonging to Austria and other states
were added to the acquisitions of the enemy. On the other hand,
the success of our brave troops, retarded indeed in particular
quarters by some untoward circumstances, though not obstructed,
had added to our distant possessions, and extended, by colonial
acquisitions, the sources of our commerce, our wealth, and our1
prosperity, to a degree unparalleled even in the annals of this
country. Feeling the pressure, which the war, no doubt, gave
to our commerce, but feeling too that it neither affected the
sources of our commerce, nor would ultimately retard the foil
tide of our prosperity, I was convinced that ¦ the temporary em»

44 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 30,
barrassments which occurred, were less the effect of a real distress,
than of an accidental derangement arising from our encreasing
capital and extended commerce. In looking round, you disco
vered no symptom of radical decay, no proof of consuming
strength; and although I have been accused of advancing a para
dox, while I maintained this proposition, I am convinced that
the embarrassment stated as an evidence of decline, was a proof
of the reality and the magnitude of our resources. I do not state
these circumstances, to give any one an idea that I do not ar
dently wish for peace, but to shew that we are not yet arrived
at so deplorable a state of wretchedness and abasement, as to be
compelled to make any insecure and dishonourable compromise.
What, on the other hand, was the situation of the enemy ? They
gt first indeed were enabled to employ gigantic means of support,
which from their extravagant nature, were temporary, not per
manent. They find also the additional expedient of disseminating
new, unheard of, destructive principles ; these they poured forth
fjrom the interior of Fiance, into all the quarters of Europe,
where no rampart could be raised to oppose the dangerous, the
fatal inundation. Although madness and fanaticism carried
them thus far for a time, yet no rational man will deny that
those persons formed a fair and reasonable conclusion, who
thought that such resources could not be attended with either
duration or stability. I need hardly recur to the subject of
French finance, though it has a very considerable effect indeed
upon the question. I have on this subject been accused of bring
ing forward groundless surmises, of using fanciful reasoning,
of stating elaborate theories without authori ty. I have even been
complimented on my dexterity at this sort of argument, for the
kind purpose of afterwards converting it into ridicule ; but I shall
not now stop to confirm what in this respect I have formerly
asserted : I may surely, however, suppose that the admissions of
the executive directory are true, particularly when officially con
veyed in the form of a message to one of their councils. Are we
fold by themselves, that the only pay of their troops are the
horrors of nakedness and famine; that their state contractors.

ifQG.-) PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 43
their judges, and all other public functionaries, receive no part
of their salaries ; that the roads are impassable, that the public
hospitals and general interests of charity are totally neglected,
that nothing, in short, remains in a state of organization but
murder and assassination ? — Is this a true picture drawn by them
selves, and can this be the time for Europe to prostrate itself at
the foot of France, — suppliantly to bow the knee, and ignomi-
niously to receive its law ?
If these considerations would not have justified this country
in refusing to treat unless upon the principle of restoring to the
emperor the territories of which he has been stripped, at least it
is sufficient reason to entitle us to refuse fo the French republic
in the moment of delibitated power and exhausted resource, what
we should have disdained to grant to France in the proudest days
of her prosperous and flourishing monarchy. Jt was reason
enough why we should not desert our allies, nor abandon our
engagements, and why we should not agree to yield up to France
for the pretence of preventing future wars, what for two cen
turies our ancestors thought it wise to contend to prevent the
French from obtaining possession of; and why, after the recorded
weakness ofthe republic, we ought not to resign withouta struggle,
what the power andthe riches of France in other times could never
extort. What then were we to attain by the conquests we had
achieved ? For ourselves, we had nothing to ask; we demanded
the return of no ancient possessions; we sued not for liberty to
maintain our independence, to reject the fraternal embrace, and
prevent the organization of treason. These do not rest upon the
permission of the enemy; they depend upon the valour,
the intrepidity and the patriotism of the people of this country.
We desired, Sir, only to preserve our good faith inviolate, and
were ready to sacrifice all our own advantages, to obtain what
we could not honourably give away without the consent of the
emperor. Could we possibly ask less at the outset of a negoci
ation? I touch, no doubt, upon a delicate subject, but I ask,
could we even have demanded the consent of the emperor to ask
less,? . Whatever might have been the disposition ofthe emperor

46 MR. PITT'S {Dec 30,
to peace, would he have been content to agree to inferior terms,
when the campaign was not yet closed,--when the enemy were
yet struck with the effects of the brilliant and glorious success
with which the Imperial arms have lately been attended on the
side of the Rhine, when the exertions in Italy might have been
expected to communicate to the affairs of Austria in that quarter,
the same tide of victory by which the frontiers of Germany were
distinguished? Could we have asked less, consistently with the
•rood faith we owe to that ally, to whose exertions and to whose
victories we have been so much indebted; that ally to whom we
are so closely bound by congenial feelings, with whom we par
ticipate in the glory of adversity retrieved, and of prosperity
restored ? In doing this, I am confident the house will agree in
thinking that we do not do too much.
By the terms proposed, all the territory between the Rhine and
the Moselle was to be ceded by France, subject to future modi
fication. When the French conquests in Italy were stated as
objects of restitution, it was not from that to be inferred that
Savoy and Nice were included, for in no geographical view could
they be considered as component parts of that country. All the
propositions underwent discussion between the plenipotentiary
of his Majesty and the French minister; only the British mi
nister informed the minister of France, that as to the Nether
lands, his Majesty could, on no account, retract any part of his
propositions, but that every thing else should be subject to modi
fication. These offers, Sir, I maintain to have been extremely
liberal in their principle^ and more so, when we consider the
application of it. We carried the principle of compensation to
the fullest extent, when we offered to give up all that we had
taken, reserving one subject only for consideration, which de
pended on a treaty, and which I shall presently mention ; and
we asked no more than what, by the strictest ties of justice and
honour, we were bound to demand. Let me appeal to every one
present if this conduct was not fair, just, and reasonable; if it
did not bespeak sincere intentions and an anxious wish on the
part of his Majesty to procure peace, consistently with good faith

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 47
and security to himself and his allies, and if it was not entitled
to a candid reception from the enemy ! As to the value of the
French possessions which we offered to give up, it must be con
fessed that the same evils with which France has been afflicted
have been extended to the colonial possessions ; they have un
doubtedly been much depreciated, much impoverished; butafter
all, they are of infinite importance to the commerce and marine
of France. The valuable post of St. Domingo ; the military and
commercial advantages of Martinique ; the peculiarly favourable
military situation of St. Lucia ; the importance of Tobago to this
country ; when we combine these, and place them in an united.
point of view, we have some reason to doubt whether there was
" not some degree of boldness on the part of his Majesty's ministers.
to make such overtures ; we have some reason to suspect the
wisdom of the measure, rather than to cavil at the insufficiency
of the offer.
I come now more particularly to mention what relates to the
Spanish part of St. Domingo, in the late negotiation. By a
former treaty with Spain, made at the peace of Utrecht, in the
year 1713, Spain engages not to alienate any of her possessions
in America and the West Indies, without the consent of Great
Britain. Have we not then a right to take advantage of this
circumstance, on the present occasion, and to hold out our con
sent to this alienation, as a part of the compensation offered on
the part of this country ? In what consists the right of the French
to the Spanish parts of St. Domingo ? Is it the right of possession ?
No ! they never yet have been in possession. Is it then merely
the right of title ? No ! for their title is derived from the alien
ation ofthe Spaniards, who had no right to transfer it without
the consent of this country. But it may be said that this treaty
is old and obsolete. On the contrary, having been kept sacred
up to the year 1 796.. it has gained strength by a long prescription ;
besides it has been recognized and confirmed at the end of every
war since that time, and particularly so in the definitive treaty
of 1783. It may be objected, however, and has indeed been
urged on this occasion, that England herself has violated this

48

MR. PITT'S [Deo. 30,

treaty in the transaction of Pensacola and Florida; but this ar
gument depends upon an obvious fallacy. The agreement with
respect to the Spanish dominions in America and the West Indies
was made between this country and Spain. Now, although the
two parties to the agreement may, by consent at pleasure, mo
dify their respective interests, it does not follow that either party
can, without the consent and to the disadvantage of the other,
introduce the interests of third parties. Upon every view of this
subject, then, I ask if we have not a fair and reasonable right to
avail ourselves of the advantages arising to us from the treaty of -
Utrecht? Sir, I think, that from the great extent of the subject, it will
be unnecessary for me to trouble the house with any farther ob- ,
servation on that part of it; but I must request the attention of
the house to the nature of the terms proposed with respect to
the meditated peace between this country and her allies; and first
with respect to Holland, a country which, although now hostile
to us, I cannot help considering as having, at the commencement
of the present war, been concerned in alliance with us in car
rying it on, and connected in our interest by every tie of internal
policy — a country which is now only opposed to us in conse
quence of the restraint imposed by the overbearing arms of France.
However, Sir, notwithstanding Holland was our ally, and an
ally, whose protection against the common enemy was one of
the causes of our entering into the war ; yet, as circumstances
have occurred, which have compelled Holland to become the
enemy of this country, I must, of necessity, treat her as such ;
I must consider her in the relation, in which she stands with
respect to France, though at the same timel cannot biing myself,
to forget she was formerly an ally, whose friendship was attended .
with reciprocal advantages to herself and to this country. I am
satisfied, if it were possible to replace Holland in the situation
in which she formerly stood, and restore her legitimate govern
ment, not nominally, but permanently and effectually, that such ,
a restoration would undoubtedly redound to the advantage of this
country. But as it is perhaps a question of too remote contin-

1796-j PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 49
gency to consider the advantage which we should acquire by
the restoration of Holland to her former system, such an event,
either nominally or really, being extremely unlikely under the
present aspect of things, I shall therefore refrain from arguing
the point. Now, Sir, as to the conduct pursued On the part of
this country, with regard to her connections with other powers,
and supposing for the present that Holland may for a time
remain subject to France, I may be allowed to assert that the
terms proposed by this country, on behalf of her allies, were such
as could only be dictated by a principle of moderation, of disin
terestedness, and earnest desire for peace. This country having
nothing to ask for herself, was induced to surrender a consider
able part, nay, almost the whole of her acquisitions, for the
purpose of inducing the French to give up to our allies that ter
ritory she has wrested from them.
The continental. possessions which France had acquired from
Holland, might perhaps be subject of discussion in what manner
they were best to be arranged at once for the interest of Holland
and ofthe allies. But these and the conquests made by this
country must be considered, in the view of restitution, as
merely an addition to the French power. We ought to consider
that those possessions, with regard to which no relation was to
be admitted, were to be retainedj in order that they might not
become acquisitions to the French government. In refusing to
yield them up, we only refuse to put into the hands ofthe enemy,
the means of carrying into effect the deep laid schemes ol ambition
they have long cherished, and the plan they have conceived of
undermining our Indian empire, and destroying our Indian com
merce, by ceding out of our own hands, what may be deemed
the bulwark of the wealth of this country, and the security of
the Indian empire. These, indeed, were refused to be given up to
our enemies; but every thing else which the valour and the arms
of this country had acquired, which was valuable, was proposed
to be made matter of negociation. This, Sir, was the nature of
the propositions made at the very first moment when the nego
ciation was commenced : and I again submit to the final decision
VOL. Ill B

50 MR. PITTS [Dec. SO,
ofthe house, whether a proposition, including the restoration of
every thing valuable which we had acquired,, except that which we
could not forego without manifest detriment to the most impor
tant' interests of the country, was not founded in liberality and
sincerity. Sir, I must beg leave to observe, that on this part of
the subject I have been the more anxious to be explicit, because
it is that part on which I lay the more particular stress, as tending
to prove to the house, that every thing was done at the com
mencement, every thing distinctly stated, on which this country
was willing to enter upon a negociation. I am the more desirous
of impressing the house with this part of my argument, because
I feel it material iii order to enable them to form a determinate
• precise idea ofthe character and prominent features of the nego>
ciation itself. In return to the statements of compensation pro
posed by this country, the French government presented no
prqjet of their own, they afforded no room for discussion, because
they were actuated by motives very distant from conciliation.
This much I have thought it necessary to state, in vindication
of the character of myself and colleagues, that the house may be
enabled to see that we never lost sight ofthe idea of a peace ad- '
vantageous for our allies, safe for Europe, and honourable to this
country. With regard to any specific terms of peace, which it
might be proper to adopt or refuse, I do not think it would be
wise for the house to pronounce. This may still be considered
as a dormant negociation, capable of being renewed; and it
would be impolitic to give a pledge to any specific terms to which
it might be impossible to adhere, and which can never be in
curred without rashness. No man can be pledged to any parti
cular terms, because in these he must be guided by a view of
collateral circumstances, and a comparative statement of re
sources. All that I wish parliament to pronounce is, that they
will add their testimony to the sincerity with which his Majesty
has endeavoured to restore peace to Europe, and their approba
tion of the steps which were employed for its attainment. But
even after their rejection of every proposition that was advanced;
after all the difficulties they started, after all the cavils they '

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. SI
employed, after all the discouragements which they presented,
when, st last, the French government had been compelled to
open the discussion, the first thing that happens, after requiring
a note containing specific proposals, is a captious demand to have
it signed by Lord Malmesbury. This demand was complied with
to deprive them of every pretence for breaking off the nego
ciation, and immediately they call for an ultimatum in twenty-
four hours. The impossibility of complying with such a de
mand is obvious. Was it possible to reconcile discordances, to
smooth opposition, or pronounce good understanding in this
manner ? Does it come within the scope ofthe negociation ? Is
an ultimatum, which means that demand which is to come the
nearest to the views of all parties, and to state the lowest terms
which could be offered, thus to be made out at random, without
knowing what the enemy would concede on their part, or what
they would accept on ours ? A proposal, drawn up in such a
manner, without- explanation, without information, could have
no good effect. It is a demand contrary to all reason and to all
principle. With such a demand, therefore, it was impossible to
comply ; and in consequence of this, Lord Malmesbury re-.
ceived orders to quit Paris in forty-eight hours, and the terri
tories ofthe republic as Soon as possible.
Perhaps, however, I shall be told, that the negociation is not
broken off, and that the French government have pointed out a
new basis upon which they are still willing to proceed. There
are two things upon this subject not unworthy of consideration.
The time at which they propose this new basis, and what sort of
basis it is that they propose. After having approved and, acted upon
the basis proposed by his Majesty's government ; after having ac
knowledged, and, to all appearance, cordially acquiesced in it,
as the ground of negociation ; after having demanded an ulti~
matum at the very commencement of this negociation, and be
fore any discussion had taken place, to be delivered in to the
directory, in the space of twenty-four hours; and after dis
missing the ambassador of the king with every mark of igno
miny and insult, they propose a new basis, by which the nego-
E'2

$1

MR. PITT'S [Dec 30,

elation is to be carried on by means of couriers. And what is the
reason they assign for this new basis ? Because Lord Malmes
bury acted in a manner purely passive, and because he could
assent to nothing without dispatching couriers to obtain the sanc
tion of his court. Here one cannot help remarking the studied
perverseness of the temper of the French government. When a
courier was dispatched to Paris, at the instance of the minister
of a neutral power, in order to get a passport from the French
government, it was denied. A courier could not even obtain a
passport, though the application was made to the executive direc
tory through the medium of the Danish minister. The request
of the Danish minister was not enough ; nothing could satisfy
them but a British minister. Well, a British minister was sent.
At the commencement of the negotiation he had occasion fre
quently to send dispatches to his- court, because it is very well
known that there are a great number of difficulties which
attend the opening of. every negociation, and because Lord
Malmesbury had been sent to Paris before the preliminaries,
which are usually settled by means of couriers, were arranged.
While these preliminaries were in a course of settling, Lord
Malmesbury's presence was barely endured, and the frequent
dispatches of his couriers were subjects of animadversion ; but
no sooner were these preliminaries settled, and the British
minister delivered in a projet, when there was less necessity
for dispatching couriers, when the* period for discussion was
arrived, when the personal presence of an ambassador was par
ticularly necessary, and when the King's ministers announced to
the French government that he was prepared to enter into dis
cussion upon the official memorials containing his projet, than
he was ordered to quit Paris, and leave the negociation to be
carried on by means of couriers. Such is the precise form,
and it was impossible to devise a better, in which a studied
insult, refined and matured by the French directory, was offered
to his Britannic Majesty.
I now come to state the broad plain ground on which the
question rests, as far as the terms, upon which we are invited

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 53
to treat on this new basis, are concerned. After having started
a variety of captious objections at the opening of the negociation,
after the preliminaries were with much difficulty adjusted, after
an ultimatum was demanded, almost before discussion had
commenced, after the king's minister was ordered, in the most
insulting manner, to leave the territories of France, after a
retraction by the executive directory of the original basis of
negociation, and the substitution of a new one in its place, they
demand not as an ultimatum, but as a preliminary, to be per
mitted to retain all those territories of which the chance of war
has given diem a temporary possession, and respecting which
they have thought proper, contrary to every principle of equity
and the received laws of nations, to pass a constitutional law,
declaring, as they interpret it, that they shall not be alienated
from the republic. Now whether this be the principle of their
constitution or not, upon which I shall afterwards have occasion
to make some observations, it was at least naturally to be sup
posed that the principle had been virtually set aside when the
former basis of negociation was recognized by the French di
rectory; for it must have been a strange admission of the
principle of reciprocal compensations indeed, if they were obliged
by the rules of their constitution to retain all those conquests
which we were most bound in duty and in honour to insist
upon their giving up, (not by any mystery of a new constitution,
which is little known, and even among those who-know it of
doubtful interpretation, but by public and known engagements)
and if they were under the same constitutional necessity, which
they certainly are, of demanding the restitution -of 'those colo
nies formerly in their possession, but which they have lost in
the course of the war. Notwithstanding, however, their dis
avowal of this principle in the admission of the former basis of
the negotiation, it is now alleged as a ground for the preten
sion, that they are entitled, as a matter of right, to demand
from this country, not as an ultimatum, but as a preliminary to
the discussion of any articles of treaty, that we shall make no
proposals inconsistent with the laws and constitution of Franpe.
£ 3

54 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 30,
I know of no law of nations which can in the remotest degree
countenance such a perverse and monstrous claim. The an
nexation of territory to any state by the government of that state
during the continuance of the war in which they have been;
acquired, can never confer a claim which supersedes the treaties
of their powers, and the known and public obligations of the
different nations of Europe. It is 'impossible, in the" nature of
things, that the separate act of a separate government can ope
rate to the dissolution of the ties subsisting between other, go-*
vernments, and. to the abrogation of treaties previously con->
eluded : and yet this is the pretensioh to which the French
government lay claim, and the acknowledgment of which they
hold out not as an ultimatum, but as a preliminary of negociation
to the king of Great Britain and his allies. In my opinion^
there is no principle of the law of nations clearer than this, that,
when in the course of war any nation acquires new possessions,
such nation has only temporary right to th;m> and they do not
become property till the end of the war. This principle is in-i
controvertible, "and founded upon the. nature of things. For, '
supposing possessions thus acquired to be immediately annexed
to the territory of the state by which the conquest was made,
and that the conqueror was to insist upon retaining them, be
cause he had passed a law that they should not be alienated,
might not the neighbouring powers, or even the hostile power,
ask— Who gave you a right to pass this law ? What have we to
do with the regulations of your municipal law ? Or, what au-r
thority have you, as a separate state, by any annexation of ter-»
ritory to your dominions, to cancel existing treaties, and to de*
stroy the equilibrium established among nations ? Were this
pretension to be tolerated, it would be a source of eternal hos.
tUity, and a perpetual bar to negociation between the contending
parties ; .because, the pretensions of the one would be totally
irreconcileable with those of the other.
This pretension in the instance of France has been as incon
sistent in its operations as it was unfounded in its origin. The
possessions which they have lost in the West Indies, in tlie.

1796.J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 5$
cqurse of the war, they made independent republics ; and
what is still more singular, Tobago, which they have lost
in the war, and which is retained by British arms, is a
part of indivisible France. I should not be surprised to hear
that Ireland, in consequence of the rumour which has been
circulated of their intention to attempt an invasion upon that
country, is constitutionally annexed to the territories of the
republic, or even that the city of Westminster is a part of in
divisible France. There is a distinction, no doubt, between
the Netherlands and the West-India islands, but it whim
sically happens that this principle of law, that this constitu
tional pretension is least applicable to those possessions upon
which it is held out as operating by the French Government,
and that the Austrian Netherlands, even by the letter of their
own constitution, ought to be exempted from its operation. I
own I am little qualified to read a lecture upon the French
constitution, and perhaps I shall be accused, in my interpreta
tion of it, of pretending to understand it better than they do
themselves. Here I must remind my accusers, however, that
even M. Delacroix, that great master of the law of nations, al
lows that on this point the constitution is not perfectly clear,
and gives that particular interpretation of it upon the authority
of the best publicists. I again repeat it — that, in discussing the
terms of a treaty with France, I am not obliged to know either
her constitution or her lawsi because it was unreasonable for
her to advance a pretension upon a foundation inconsistent with
the received law of nations and the established nature of things.
But it will demonstrate their insincerity and the shallowness of
the subterfuges to which they have been obliged to have re
course, if I can shew that no such law is , in existence, and
that their constitution leaves the government entirely at
liberty to dispose of the possessions which they have ac
quired in war, in any way they may think proper. I have
looked through this voluminous code [holding a copy of the
constitution in his hand], and I think it may be considered as
an instance that a constitution upon paper, digesting and regu-
e 4

56 MR. PITT'S [Dec 30,
lating the conduct of municipal jurisprudence as well as of
-foreign relations, does nof lead to the best application of the
true principles of political economy. In the copy of their con
stitution all I find upon the subject is" a declaration that France is
one and indivisible, which is followed by a long list of depart
ments. And here I would recommend it to gentlemen to read
the report upon which this decree was founded, in which they
will find that it was passed for the avowed purpose of obtaining
for France an indisputable ascendant in Europe, and of suppress
ing the trade and commerce of rival nations. Overlooking how
ever, the principle of the decree, if it was found inapplicable to
the possessions of the French in the East and West Indies, which
they had previous to the war, it was certainly much more inap
plicable to the Austrian Netherlands, of which they have got_
possession in the courseof the war; and therefore the govern?
ment, in holding out the principle as operating upon the latter,
and not to the former, apply it to that part of their territory to
which it is least applicable.
If we look at the provisions under the next title, respecting
relations with foreign powers, the argument against the existence
of any such principle in their constitution is confirmed : for we
find the executive government is there vested with the full pow
er of treating, but.all their treaties must be ratified by the legis
lative bodies, with the singular exception of secret articles, wbichit
is in the power of the directory to put in execution without be
ing ratified, a prpof that they are authorized by the constitution
to alienate territories belonging to the republic. Allowing,
however, that it is a principle of their constitution, is it an evil
without a remedy? No. M. Delacroix confesses that it may be
remedied, but not without the inconvenience of calling the
primary assemblies. And are we then, after all the exertions
that we have made in order to effect the object of general pacifi
cation, and after being baffled in all our efforts by the stubborn
pride and persevering obstinacy of the French government,
after our propositions have been slighted, and our ambassador'
insulted, are we now to consent to sacrifice our engagements,
and to violate our treaties, because, forsooth, it would be at-

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 57
tended with some inconvenience for them to call their primary
assemblies, in order to cancel a law which is incompatible with
Hie principle of fair negotiation? Shall we forget our own ho
nour, our own dignity, and our own duty, so far, as to acqui
esce in a principle as a preliminary to negociation, Intolerable in,
its tendency, unfounded in fact, inconsistent with the nature of
things, and inadmissible by the law of nations? >
But this is not all the sacrifice they demand. This is not all the
degradation to which they would have us submit. You must als»
engage, and as a preliminary too, to make no propositions which
are contrary to the lawsof the constitution, and the treaties which
bind the republic. Here they introduce a new and extraordi
nary clause; imposing a restriction still more absurd and unrea
sonable than the other. The republic of France may have made
secret treaties which we know nothing about, and yet that go
vernment expects that we are not to permit our propositions to
interfere with these treaties. In the former instance we had a
text upon which to comment, but here we are in the state of
those diviners who were left to guess at the dreams which they
were called upon to interpret. How is it possible for this coun
try to know what secret articles there may be in the treaty be
tween France and Holland ? How can we know what the Dutch
may have ceded tq France, or whether France may not have an
oath in heaven never to give up the territories ceded to her by
Holland ? Who can know but her treaty with Spain contains
some secret article guaranteeing to the latter the restitution of
Gibraltar, or some important possession now belonging to his
¦ Majesty ? And how can I know whether the performance of aU
these engagements may not be included under the pretension
which the French government now holds out ? How is it pos
sible for me to sound where no line can fathom ? And even
after you have acceded to these preliminaries, in what situation ,
do you stand ? After accepting qf terms of which you are en-
tirely ignorant, and giving up all that it is qf importance for you
to keep, you at last arrive at a discussion of fhe government
which France may chuse to give to Italy, and of the fate which
she may be pleased tq assign to Germany. In fact, the questipn

58 MR. PITTS f Dec. 30,
is not, how much you will give for peace, but how much dis-
graceyou will suffer at tlie outset, how much degradation you
will submit to as a preliminary ? In these circumstances, then,
are we to persevere in the war with a spirit and energy worthy.
of the British name and of the British character ; or are we, by
sending couriers to Paris, to prostrate ourselves at the feet of a
stubborn and supercilious government, to do what they require,
and to submit to whatever they may impose? I hope there is
not a hand in his Majesty's councils that would sign the propo
sals, that there is not a heart in this house that would sanction
the measure, and that there is not an individual in the British do
minions who would act as the courier.
Mr. Pitt concluded with moving,
" That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, to
assure his Majesty, that that house also felt the utmost concern
that his Majesty's earnest endeavours to effect the restoration of
peace had been unhappily frustrated, and that the negociation,
in which he had been happily engaged, had been abruptly broken
off by the peremptory refusal of the French government to treat,
except upon a basis evidently inadmissible, and by their having
in consequence required his Majesty's plenipotentiary to quit
Paris within forty-eight hours.
" To thank his Majesty for having directed the several me
morials and papers which had been exchanged in the course of
the late discussion, and the account transmitted to his Majesty
of its final result, to be laid before the house.
" That they were perfectly satisfied, from the perusal of these
papers,^ that his Majesty's conduct had been guided by a sin
cere desire to effect the restoration • of peace, on principles
suited to the relative situation of the belligerent powers, and
essential for the permanent interests of his Majesty's king
doms, and the general security of Europe : whilst his ene
mies had advanced pretensions at once inconsistent with those
objects, unsupported even on the grounds on which they were
professed to rest, and repugnant both to the system established
by repeated treaties ; and to the principles and practice which
had hitherto regulated the intercourse of independent nations.

1796.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. ¦ 59
" To assure his Majesty, that, under the protection of Provi
dence, he might place the fullest reliance on the wisdom and
firmness of his parliament, on the tried valour of his forces by
sea and land, and on the zeal, public spirit, and resources of his
kingdoms, for vigorous and effectual support in the prosecution
of a contest, which it did not depend on his Majesty to termi
nate, and which involved in it the security and permanent inte
rests of this country and of Europe."
The House divided on an amendment moved by Mr. Fox, censuring the
conduct of ministers in the negociation :
For the amendment - 37
Against it ------ - 212
Tlie 'address was then agreed to.

February 2S, 1797.
Mr. Pitt moved the order of the day for taking into consideration the
following message from his Majesty,
" GEORGE R.
" His Majesty thinks it proper to communicate to the House of Commons,
without delay, the measure adopted to obviate the effects which might be
occasioned by the unusual demand of specie lately made from different parts
of the cadntry on the metropolis.
" The peculiar nature and exigency of the case appeared to require, in the
first instance, the measure contained in the order of council, which his
Majesty has directed to be laid before the House.* In recommending this
important subject to the immediate and serious attention of the House of
Commons, his Majesty relies with the utmost confidence on the experienced
wisdom and firmness pf his parliament, for taking such measures as may be
best calculated to meet any temporary pressure, and to call forth, in the most
effectual manner, the exclusive resources of this kingdom, in support of their
public and commercial credit, and in defence of their dearest interests.
G. R."
* See next page.

60 MR. PITT'S [Feb- 2S>
The message being read by the Speaker,
Mr. Pit T rose: 
Sir, [gave notice yesterday that I should first move an address to
his Majesty, returning him thanks for his most gracious commu
nication, and assuring him that the house would immediately
proceed to take into consideration the object recommended in the
message to their serious attention. I stated that my next motion
would be for the appointment of a select committee to enquire
into the amount of the outstanding engagements of the bank,
and the means they had of making good their engagements. As
with respect to my first motion, for expressing our thanks to his
Majesty, and assuring hirn qf our readiness to take immediate
steps to comply with hjs recommendation, there can scarcely be
* Copy of the Order of Privy Council.
" At the Council Chamber, Whitehall, February 28, 1797,
" By the Lords of his Majesty's most honourable Privy. Council. Present,
The Lord Chancellor, Earl Spencer,
Lord President, Earl of Liverpool,
Puke of Portland, ¦ Lord Grenville,
Marquis Comwallis, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer,
" Upon the representation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stating,
that from the result of the information which he has received, and of the
inquiries which it has been his duty to make respecting the effect of the
unusual demands for specie that have been made upon the inetiopolis, in,
consequence of ill-founded or exaggerated alarms in different parts of the
country, it appears, that unless some measure is immediately taken, there
may be reason to apprehend a want of a sufficient supply of cash to answer
the exigencies of the public service. It is the unanimous opinion of the
board that it is indispensably necessary for the public service, that the direc
tors of the Bank of England should forbear issuing any cash in payment
until the sense of parliament can be taken on that subject, and the propejr
measures'adopted thereupon, for maintaining the means of circulation, and
supporting the public and commercial credit ofthe kingdom at this important
conjuncture; and it is ordered, that a copy of this minute be transmitted:
to the directors of the Bank of England ; and they are hereby required,
on the grounds of the exigency of the case, to conform thereto until the
sense Of parliament can be taken as aforesaid,
(Signed) -yv. FAWKENER.1'

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 61
supposed to take place any difference of opinion, I will not in
prefacing that motion detain the house any longer, but Content
myself with moving,
" That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, to re
turn thanks for his most gracious message, and to assure him that
the house would proceed, without delay, to the deliberation of
tlie important subject, which his Majesty has recommended to
their attention ; and that his Majesty might rely on the earnest
and anxious desire of the house to adopt such measures as may
be best calculated to meet the pressure of any temporary difficul
ties, and to call forth at this present conjuncture, the exten
sive resources of the kingdom, in support of our public and
commercial credit, and in defence of our dearest interests."
Mr. Dundas seconded the motion, which was carried nemine coutraiiceale.
Mr. Pitt then proceeded 1—
I suggested that it was also my intention this day to submit to
the house a motion, that there should be appointed a select com
mittee to make such enquiry into the state ofthe bank as might
be conceived to be necessary, and to collect such information
with respect to the circumstances of the time, as might be suf
ficient to point out the necessity of the measure adopted by the '
bank in consequence of an order of council, and at the same time
justifying the members of that house in taking the proper steps tq
confirm and enforce that measure.
With respect to the first step to he ascertained, the state ofthe
bank, that already has in a great measure been ascertained by the
confidence of public opinion. Of this public opinion the most
unequivocal and satisfactory proofs have been afforded, even
within the short space that has elapsed since the minute of coun
cil has been issued. It has been clearly evinced that there is no
doubt entertained with respect to the solidity of the bank to answer
all the demands of its creditors. At this trying period that has
called for the exertion of die good sense and the fortitude of Eng
lishmen, their good sense, and their fortitude have been displayed
in a way equally preditable to themselves, and auspicious to the

62 MR. PITT'S , [Fin. 28,
public welfare. But though there can be no hesitation with res
pect to the solidity of the bank, undoubtedly at so important a
period, and under those critical circumstances which. now require
the interference of the house, it is incumbent upon them to take
the proper means to satisfy themselves, that the measure which
has been adopted in consequence of the opinion of council, was
occasioned by unavoidable emergency, and bad become indis
pensably necessary. It is the more incumbent upon them to in
stitute this enquiry, and obtain the fullest conviction on this head;
as it is proposed that parliament should now be called upon to
confirm that opinion, and to sanction the measure by an act of
the legislature. I am indeed confident that the result ofthe in
vestigation will be such, as not only to leave no doubt that the
security of the bank is as unquestionable, as it is unquestioned,
but will completely establish the propriety of adding the public
security to the security and property ofthe bank. With respect
to the amount of the outstanding demands on the bank, and the
means which they possess for discharging their obligations, I am
satisfied that the enquiry will be comprised in a short compass,
and that from the result of a very short investigation, the advan
tage' of the measure already adopted will appear so obvious, as t6
lay the natural foundation of every further proceeding on the part
of this house. It is proposed that the public security should be •
given, not only for the outstanding claims on the bank which
exist at the present moment, but also for those additional issues
of paper which may be deemed advisable.
There is, however, one point, which from the novelty and
importance of the conjuncture, it is necessary should be well
understood. , As to the degree of satisfaction proper to be ob
tained with respect to the grounds of "necessity on which the
measure has been adopted, it must appear to every reflecting
man that this is a subject of enquiry of so critical and delicate a
nature, that it cannot, consistently with public safety; be
pushed to great particularity or minuteness of detail. It cannqt
be doubtful to any man acquainted with the subject, that it
would be-highly improper for the committee to enter into a

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 63
minute and particular enquiry into the precise state of the dif
ferent descriptions of specie belonging to the bank, to proceed
to a dissection of their accounts, an'd to state the balance of
cash. These are circumstances that could not be disclosed
without great imprudence, and the risk of permanent incon
venience. It must be evident that the enquiry ought to be
conducted in the most discreet manner, consistently with the
object of procuring the information necessary for the satisfaction
of the house. It must be feJt that so novel a measure would
not in the first instance have been adopted without a strong
conviction of its necessity. It would be proper, then, that the
business be confided to a secret committee, and that they be
expressly instructed by the house not to push their enquiries too
minutely into the particulars I have suggested, but to confine
their investigation to such circumstances of the general state of
the bank, as may be sufficient for the purpose in view. My
object, therefore, is to move for the appointment of a com
mittee to ascertain the general state ofthe funds and obligations
of the bank, to examine into the grounds of the necessity of the
measure already adopted, and to suggest what further measures
ought to be taken by parliament in pursuance ofthe minute of
council. Tt is not for me to point out in what manner the
members of that committee ought to exercise the important trust
confided to them by the house : but if it should be proved by
the evidence of the members of the bank direction, that the
extent of the late demands upon the bank, and the rapidity
with which they were brought forward, were likely to occasion
such a pressure as not to leave a sufficient fund for the public
service,. and that their opinion in this respect entirely coincided
with the opinion of his Majesty's ministers ; a strong argument
will surely then be afforded that the measure, which the ne
cessity of the times required on the part of the executive admi
nistration, it is incumbent on the legislature to confirm and
enforce. This is the only point on which the committee
are called upon to inquire, or which it can be important for
them to establish ; and in pursuing this object of investigation,

64

. Mr. pitt'S tFE*- 2**

they are by no means called to push their enquiries into circum- ;
stances, the disclosure of which would be attended with tempo-
rary injury to the credit of the country, and with permanent' '¦
embarrassment to the operations ofthe bank, On these grounds
I am desirous to rest the motion, which I shall now submit to
the house. The motion is to the following effect, — .
" That a committee be appointed to examine and state the
total amount of outstanding demands on the bank of England; '
and likewise of the funds for discharging the same, and to
report the result thereof to the house, together with their
opinion of the necessity of providing for the confirmation and
continuance ofthe measures taken, in pursuance ofthe mi*
nnte of council, on the 26th instant." — »
Some remaiks which fell from Sir William Putteiiey arid Mr. Hussey, in.
the course of the debate, induced Mr. Pitt td reply: —
He said, he had been called upon so immediately by the ho
nourable baronet, and the gentleman who had just sat down, X
that he hoped for the indulgence of the house while he made? a
few observations, which were the more necessary as so much
misconception was evident in the manner in which the subject
had been taken up. The honourable baronet was alarmed at
the way in which the proposal was conceived, as it implied
that the measure was to be permanent. He could assure the
house, however, that nothing could be farther from his inten
tion. So much the contrary, that he had not the smallest ob
jection that a limited time should be fixed; and the words from
which the conclusion of its continuation was inferred, had been
introduced solely in this view. The measure which it had been
judged proper to take, and which had given rise to the order of
council, was one, however, which, while it continued, ought
to have the sanction of legislative authority. This was the
reason which urged him to simplify and to accelerate the in
quiry upon which the house was called upon to decide. It was
a measure which required the utmost promptitude. Whatever
inquiries it might be' afterwards thought advisable to pursue j
whatever retrospect of past events might be made, and whatever

179?.]" : PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 63
remedies might be suggested by a general consideration of future
contingencies, the present measures required an investigation
less extensive, and a decision more expeditious. The question
for the house at present was, whether they wished a measure
which was conceived necessary, to remain so long as the ex
tended inquiry would demand, without the sanction of legis
lative authority? If they were of opinion that, in the present
circumstances, it would not be proper to \ea<re it without that
sanction, they ought to narrow the inquiry.
With respect to the causes which produced the necessity of
the measure, opinions would be as different as the sentiments, of
individuals. He was ready to say, however, that the Austrian
loan, though one ofthe causes which might influence the great
events which operated on our situation, was not the immediate
cause to which the necessity was to be ascribed. Was it ne
cessary to go into so extensive a field of inquiry to ascertain
whether a specific measure, already found necessary, was to be
sanctioned for a limited time'by legislative authority? The in».
quiry which was most practicable was certainly at present that
which was most prudent. The causes which may have con
tributed to produce this situation, the remedies that may be
applied to obviate its bad effects, and the means which may be
adopted to prevent its taking place in future, were considera
tions undoubtedly of the highest magnitude and importance ;
but they were less urgent than the immediate inquiry he had
proposed, because they might be postponed without incon
venience : they would afford room for calm and temperate de
liberation : they would b6 discussed to greater advantage after a
pauseof reflection, and with the Coolness of the understanding,
instead of being taken up in the first ebullition of passion, and
in the warmth of immature consideration. The honourable
gentleman wished to know what was the cause of the measure
which it was judged prudent to adopt. He would take the
liberty to say, that the sudden drain upon the metropolis was
unconnected with any circumstances which could infer either
the deficiency of the bank, or the unprosperous situation of the.
•vol. III. F

65 MR. PITT'S [Feb. 2$
country. The rates of foreign exchanges never were more
flourishing than at this moment. The necessity of the measure-
originated in a sudden demand beyond tlie usual average. With
regard to the quantities of money exported, and the remittances
received, it was a point which the house could ascertain by a
motion of their own better than by any question put to him.
This run might have occasioned a demand, which, when
connected with the alarm which prevailed, would have pro
duced the worst effects, and reduced the country to a very
dangerous situation. The short question for the house, how
ever, was, to prove the reality of the situation which had
produced the order of council. The causes would be so diffe
rently viewed according to political and commercial opinions of
men, that they more properly belonged to future discussion.
The inquiry immediately relating to the point before the house
was urged in the first instance by every consideration of public
interest and public duty.
With regard to the observation of the honourable gentleman,
" pay the bank what they have advanced, and they will be able
to answer all the demands," it was founded entirely on mistake.
Did the honourable gentleman imagine that the bank advanced
their specie to government ; or that he, with rapacious hand,
had seized upon so much money as he had mentioned ? By far
the greater part of that sum was floating advances, not now
made for the first time ; nor was there more now outstanding
than had been upon many occasions before he came into office.
The advances were commonly made, in notes, and paid in the
same manner ; unless the bank had no other advances but those
to government, and unless these occasioned' an issue of tlieir
paper, inferring a demand for specie which otherwise would not
have taken place, it could not be said that the advances to go
vernment could in any view produce the difficulties of the bank
for cash. It was not impossible that, upon some future occa
sion, a loan might be required, for the purpose of taking up
these floating advances ; but, did the honourable gentleman
conceive that such a loan could be in specie ? This was not the

!?9?-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 6f
moment, in the midst of these embarrassments, to propose such
a loan ; and, though it were transacted, it Could not supply
the bank with a single additional guinea in cash. Surely it would
not be proposed to give up the inquiry into the measure which
he had brought forward, and, instead of it, require him to
borrow money for such purposes, and with such expectations as
tills. The honourable gentleman supposed that taxes were paid hi
specie, and that the public creditor, on the other hand, was not
to be paid at all. The public creditor, howeVer, like every
other person, often received notes instead of cash. Upon such
a question as this, it was proper to look at. general usage. It
was a fact well known, that loans were often advanced without
any expectation of being paid in specie ; nor could the bank
ever have it in contemplation, that every quarterly dividend was
to be paid in cash j nor did they form their arrangements upon
that supposition. All the receipt of tlie revenue paper was
taken in the same manner. The observations of the honourable
gentleman were entirely founded in mistake ; and, as he hoped.
he was guided by motives of candour, he would be aware of the
false grounds on which he had formed his conclusions. He
should' repeat, therefore, that the inquiry which was necessary
to-be entered upon at present was comprehended in his original
proposal : whatever went beyond that object might, with much
greater advantage, be referred to a future opportunity.
Mr. Sheridan then moved, as an amendment to the motion, " That the
committee should inquire into the causes which produced the order of
council of the 26th instant."
The amendment was negatived, Ayes ------ 86
Noes ------ 244
and the original motion was afterwards agreed to.

$ 2

68 MR. PITTS [MahchP,

March 9, 1797.
^Ke House having resolved itself into a committee of the whole House- to
take into consideration the reports of the Committee of Secrecy, appointed to
inquire into the affairs of the Bank,
Mr. Pitt expressed himself as follows :
I rise in conseqoence of the notice which I gave on a former
day of my intention to make some propositions on the present
state of public affairs, grounded on the reports of the secret
committee appointed to inquire into the affairs of the bank, and
the necessity of providing for the continuance ofthe operation of
the order in council of the 26th of February last. These reports
relate to two distinct points — the state of the funds of the bank,
and the necessity of continuing the restriction, by which the issue
of specie is at present suspended. With respect to the first point,.
there undoubtedly appeared from the beginning ofthe discussion
an almost universal persuasion of the solidity ofthe funds of that
corporation. It was the opinion of thbse who were most in
terested in its concerns, and it was readily adopted by persons
more immediately conversant in pecuniary transactions, who
evinced the sincerity of their confidence by the measures which
they at first adopted, and the line of conduct they have since
pursued. The report of the select committee 'confirmed the
general impression respecting the stability of its resources j and
never till this day have I heard them questioned* That their
assets greatly exceed all demands which can be made on them
cannot be disputed.
The only part of the honourable gentleman'sf speech on which
I find myself called upon to make any observations, was that in
• Mr. Sheridan had previously risen to give notice of his intention to move
on the next day, mat immediate steps, should be taken to pay the money a*-
¦ vanced by the Directors of the Barlk ^Government,
f Mr. Sheridan.

1M-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 69
which he denied that the eleven millions due from government
to the bank formed any part of its funds. The fact is, the sum
of eleven millions is the original capital of that corporation.
The security of every trader is tlie original capital that he has
embarked in trade ; to deny therefore, that the original capital
of the bank, if it still remains unimpaired and secure, is part of
their assets, is to deny every mercantile principle upon which
security is constructed, or trade carried on. When we look af
the ultimate solidity of the funds of the bank (and it is to their
ultimate solidity that, at present, we ought to look), we must
look at their original capital, at the amount of their good debt,
in short, at every species of property which is available for the
liquidation of their outstanding demands, The honourable gen
tleman seems in his ideas to have confounded the amount ofthe
property of the bank with another question wholly distinct from
this j how far the bank has carried on an advantageous trade. If
we were to consider this question, the original capital could not
certainly be brought into the account of gain. If the capital was
diminished, then they would have lost by their trade, and if it
was increased, they would have gained, but the capital in its
original state could not be placed in the account of gain. This
is a question, however, quite foreign to the present subject of
discussion. It forms no part of our inquiry, for we have nothing
to do with the internal economy of the bank. Considering it as
a corporation, it is sufficient for the public €0 know that it is a,
rich corporation, and that, were it now to close its accounts, it
could divide among the holders of stock a sum considerably
larger than the capital which they originally embarked in the
firm, The honourable gentleman contends that this debt Of
eleven millions is not deniandable from government by the bank,
and that it ought only to be considered as the principal of a three
percent, annuity, Rut if government found that the bank was
unnt for business, would it continue in its hands the monopoly
of a business which it cannot manage ?^-'and whenever this mo^
nopoly is taken from them, this sum of eleven millions must be
repaid- The object of inquiry was to ascertain the ultimate
f3

70 MR. PITT'S [March g,
solidity of the bank. Its ultimate solidity is asserted in the report
of tlie secret committee upon your table; and so far from being
liable to any of the animadversions of the honourable gentleman
in the inquiry, the committee would not have done their duty
had they not included this eleven millions among its assets. This
is a part of their debt, which rests upon the best possible se
curity, because it rests upon the aggregate powers ofthe country.
The report of the committee then confirms the opinion of the
stability of the bank ; an opinion in which I had formerly the
satisfaction of hearing every person concur, and which even the
honourable gentleman himself expressed most decidedly, when
the business was under discussion on a former day. But the inquiry
into the state ofthe funds of the bank is nearly connected with
the question of the general policy of suspending for a time its
payments in specie. , A suspension of these payments is a step
which certainly ought not to be taken, excepting in a case of the
most urgent necessity. If this necessity, however, at present
exists," and, after the report of the secret committee it cannot
admit of doubt, we must submit to the adoption of a. measure,
which certainly it would be desirable in other circumstances to
avoid, not however without the important consolation that, not'
Withstanding the temporary embarrasments arising from a com
bination of causes afterwards to be inquired into, there are funds
amply sufficient for the security of those who cannot have their
demands satisfied for a time.
'When I come to consider the second report, with all due res*
pect for the committee, I must own that I lament exceedingly,
their having confined themselves within narrower limits than
what I understood to be die province of their inquiry. We had
formerly some discussion upon the difficulty of discriminating
precisely between the existence of the necessity and the cause by
which it has been produced, and perhaps it is impossible to draw
the exact line between them, But without entering at all into
minute distinctions, plain sense teaches us that there is a differ^
ence between an event and its cause. And when a committee
was appointed to inquire into the necessity of the bank suspending

179M PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 71
its payment' in specie, I did conceive that they would have
hiouirfid into the necessity of taking, as well as of continuing, tlie
measure. They have only reported, however, upon the necessity
of continuing it, without expressing any opinion upon the pro
priety of having adopted it . But according to this report, it now
appears to be necessary. I admit that it may have become ne
cessary, merely in consequence of having been adopted 3 in rea
soning therefore upon its continuance, I shall not consider the
reports as sanctioning the issue of the order in council. I cannot
read the report, however, without believing it to have been the
opinion of the committee, that the continuance of its operation
is necessary for a time j for what time is another question: I
certainly feel the ncessity of it on very different grounds than
because it has once been taken ; but all I wish now is, that
the house will proceed upon the recommendation of the com
mittee. What may be the proper time for continuing it, and how far
it may be proper to entrust government with the power of
shortening the definite time that may be fixed, or how far it may
be wise to leave it to their discretion to prolong the period of its
operation, if it should be necessary beyond that definite time,.
will be matter for discussion in the progress of the bill. I .shall
now only move, that the chairman be directed to move for leave
to bring in a bill, to continue and confirm the order in council
of the 26th of February, for a time to be limited. The house
will feel that, by agreeing to this motion, they will sanction the
prohibition with tlieir legislative authority, and the consequent
propriety of extending their protection at the same time that they
extend their authority. It will be easily seen that I allude to a
bill of indemnity to those who upon their own responsibility
issued an order, which certainly was illegal, and could only be
justified by the urgent necessity of- the moment. I am aware
that it does not yet appear, whether ministers ought or ought
not to be indemnified, nor do I think that this is the proper time
for such a discussion, because parliament cannot form any judg
ment of a measure professing to have been taken on necessity,

7a MR. PITT'S [March 9,:?
till the existence of that necessity is ascertained. The honour.
able gentleman* has thrown out some doubts respecting the
necessity of continuing the measure, and these doubts are founded
upon the necessity of adopting it. But, I understood that it was
decidedly, the sense ofthe house, that the necessity of adopting
as well as of continuing the measure; was a subject proper only
for discussion in a secret committee ; for surely the necessity of*
taking the "measure was a question of as great delicacy, and in
the agitation of which as much caution ought to be. observed? <•
as the necessity of continuing it. Since then the subject can
come with propriety only before a secret committee, I hope I
shall be excused from debating it on the present occasion.
But the honourable gentleman brings his arguments nearer to
the present subject; when he maintains that, were government to
discharge the debts they owe to the bank, this would do away
the necessity of adopting or rather of sanctioning the present mea
sure. I am here entitled to assume that at least he must see
things in a different point of view from the committee, since this
naturally came within the province of their inquiry, and has not
feeen suggested by them as a measure adequate to meet the neces
sity of the times. But with respect to the measure itself, I shall
not pretend to say, how far it may not be applicable in future as
a remedy for some of those evils which may have contributed to
produce the present necessity; all I will maintain, and it is enough
for my present purpose, is, that it is not a measure at all cal
culated, even supposing that could be instantly executed, to
operate as a remedy for the difficulties of the moment. But the
honourable gentleman did not recollect that a measure of the
nature that he proposes, requires considerable previous arrange?
ment; that it must be subject to meet discussion, and that a great
deal of time must necessarily elapse,before it can take effect.
The remedy then which he suggests is a proof itself, that in the
interval, the measure which has been already taken, ought to be
continued. He expresses a hope, that J will not be so childish.
* Mr. Sheridan,

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 73
as to deny, that were government to pay the debts they owe to
the bank; it would not operate as a relief to that corporation, be
cause it would not be paid off in cash. Now, Sir, it is very «isy
to apply this or any other epithet to this or any other argument,
and it would be very easy for me to apply the same epithet to a
contrary opinion, and leave the house to judge between us ; but
notwithstanding the epithet, I will venture to assert that though
government were to pay all the debt they owe to the bank, it
would not go to alter the quantity of cash. And if the object be
to re-establish a diie proportion between the cash and the notes
of the bank, I will put it to any mercantile man in the house,
whether this can be done without increasing this cash, but merely
by taking their notes out of circulation. A considerable reduc
tion of notes may be wise, but to pay off all thedebt due by
government to the bank is neither practicable within a short
time, nor, even though it were practicable, would it have the
desired effect The first motion, therefore, which I shall pro
pose is, that the operation of the order in council shall be con
tinued under the authority of a committee of the legislature for
a time to be limited ; and if this motion is agreed to, I shall then
propose that the same committee shall be revived, . in order to
inquire into the necessity of taking the measure, and also to in
vestigate the causes which gave rise to that necessity.
There is another motion of which I gave notice, and which I
shall certainly take an early opportunity of submitting to the
house, namely, that a select committee be appointed to inquire
into the whole state of the finances of the country; Steps cannot
be taken too soon to ascertain and put upon record every thing
that relates to the real situation and resources ofthe country ; and
in that prospect I shall only say that I entertain the most sanguine
hopes that, however severely we may feel the pressure of present
difficulties, whatever difference of opinion may prevail respecting
the conduct of government, and however much the nation may
feel from the variety and weight of its burdens, the wealth of tlie
country is great, and that it still possesses a vast extent of solid

74 MR. PITT'S . [March 13,
resources. I wish most earnestly that this inquiry may extend as
far as, consistently with propriety and a due regard to the public ;
service, it can be carried. It is my desire that it may embrace
the whole amount of the burdens incurred since the commence
ment of the war, and the means provided for defraying them j the
whole amount of the burdens that may be necessary for the pre
sent year, accompanied with the examination of the measures
which have been taken for the reduction of the national debt, to
gether with a scrutiny into the public expenses, with a view if
possible to abridge them, consistently with the interests of the
public service. I would caution gentlemen, however, against
rashly deciding upon the possibility of this reduction, before they
inquire whether the service performed can either be dispensed
with or purchased at a cheaper rate. On these grounds I shall
move, "-that the chairman be instructed to move for leave to
bring in a bill to confirm and continue the order in council of
the 26th of February, for a time to be limited."
The motion was carried without a division.
Mr. Pitt then moved :
" That the secret committee for inquiring into the affairs of
the bank, be revived, and that it be referred to the same secret
committee to inquire into the causes which had produced the
order of council, and to report their opinion of the necessity;'
of that measure." "
Upon which the committee divided,
-Ayes  - 174
Noes ------ 65

March 13, 1797.
On a motion hy Mr. Harrison, " That the extent ofthe supplies voted te
Government, since the commencement if the present war, having caused
so heavy an increase of taxes, it is the duty ofchis House to inquir* whether

179M PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. f$
some relief to the burdens ofthe people, or provision for further expense,
«iay not be obtained by the reduction of useless places, sinecure offices, ex j
orbitant fees, and other modes of retrenchment in the expenditure of tho
public money,"
Mr. Pitt spofce to the following effect !
Sir— Though the honourable mover, and the noble lord*
who seconded the motion, have thought proper to enter into
considerations, which so far from exactly applying to the subject
before the house, go a very great extent beyond it, it is not my
intention to enter minutely into objects so completely unconnect
ed with the present motion, and which we may have many op
portunities of discussing. It seems to me unnecessary to trouble
the house with any allusions either to the origin, or conduct of
the present war ; or to take a review, or enter into a justifica
tion of the great and various questions which have been frequently
agitated here. The noble lord has in his speech thought fit to
condemn the measures adopted by the last parliament, for the
preservation of the internal tranquillity of the kingdom, and the
security of the state. But, Sir, the precautionary measures to
which he has adverted were not, as he has been pleased to de
clare, retrenchments of the constitution, but essential safeguards
against lawless attacks levelled at the British constitution by a
faction, which,- though small, was acting with the common
enemy, and was openly proceeding not on British, but on French
principles. The safety of the state at that time depended 011 the
wise and just precautions which it was found necessary to take j
and though I feel that any review of these transactions is foreign
to tlie question on which we are called to decide ; yet I trust I
may be allowed to notice the manner in which the noble lord
has referred to those measures which were calculated to oppose
any check to the progress of French principles. He has, Sir,
taken great pains to reprobate the proceedings of parliament on
that momentous occasion, and tlie speech which he has delivered
in support of his honourable friend's motion relates so little to tlie
subject of it, that it appears to have been prepared for another
* Lord William Russell,

76 MR. PITT'S [March lS,r
purpose, of which notice has been already given. [Mr. Pitt al
luded to Mi-, Fox's notice of moving for the repeal of the treason
and sedition bills. J But as these measures have been fully dis
cussed and resolved by parliament, I cannot, until this house
feels convinced of their error, suppose that they have agreed to
improper proceedings. While their resolutions on those subjects
stand on record, I am authorised in assuming, that they have
acted on principles of public order against principles of anarchy
and confusion ; that they have supported the cause of true liberty
against the ravages of licentiousness; that they have protected
religion and morality against the desperate attempts of destruc
tive innovation, and that they have preserved our constitution j
inviolate from the bold and daring attacks of a faction acting in
concert with the common enemy of freedom, and of public and
private happiness. So far, Sir, I conceive I have an undisputed
right to argue on the solemn decision of this house, . With
respect to the manner in which the honourable gentleman has
opened his motion, I am led to observe, that he has not entered
into any specific grounds to support it. He has confined himself
to very general statements, and he seems to have reserved him
self for a particular detail on some other opportunity.
The honourable gentleman appears, from the words of his ;
motion, to have two different 'objects in view. The first relates
to making retrenchments, and correcting profusion in the
established offices of government, and in sinecure places and
pensions. The second has for its object an inquiry into the
state of the national expenditure, and proposes a check on the
expenses of the state. This, it is needless for me to urge, is
comprehended in a resolution which has already passed this
house, to inquire into the finances ofthe country, and to con
sider of the most practicable means for obtaining a diminution of
the public expenditure. The honourable gentleman means Jo.
include in the investigation which he proposes, subjects of the?
most extensive and complicated nature. He wishes to embrace
all the ordinary and extraordinary expenses of the different.
branches of government. He extends his inquiry into the dis*

1797.1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 77
bursements of the army, navy, and every public establishment.
I am ready to admit, that as far as this proposition goes, it forms
a subject worthy the consideration of tlie house ; and tlie mag
nitude of it appears to be such, that no man can say what will
be tlie effect of it, or to what particular measures it may lead.
Yet, Sir, the honourable gentleman, bringing before the house
considerations of such extensive views, and of such high im
portance, adopts a very singular mode of proceeding. He does
not think proper to 'offer matters so momentous and compli
cated in their relations in a direct manner to parliamentary dis
cussion, but states them as the objects of a collateral inquiry,
and introduces 'them immediately' after his motion for retrench
ment in the offices of government. But certainly the honourable
gentleman will not deny that there is an extreme difference be
tween both objects : for the check which he proposes on the public
expenses very much exceeds in importance that reform which
he wishes should take place in the establishment and salaries of
public offices. The distinction between these two objects being
so evident, as the latter does not form any part whatever of
the proposition formerly submitted to the house by the ho
nourable gentleman, nor of the notice which he gave of his
motion of this nighty I must consider the manner of introducing
it not only irregular, but inadequate to the magnitude of the
inquiry 'which he proposes to establish. I also think it neces
sary to remind gentlemen, that the objects which it compre*
bends, form tlie grounds of my motion for the appointment of
the committee which has been this night chosen by ballot. I
stated in general terms, previous to my \ bringing forward that
motion, the various points to which the attention of the. com
mittee was to be directed ; but I could not, until Iha&apppinted
that committee, "proceed to offer, in a specific manner, each of
these points. I therefore only stated, lhatit was my wish and
desire to move, as an instruction to the committee, that after
inquiring into, and ascertaining the whole state ofthe finances
ofthe country ; after reviewing the whole amount of the debt
which had been incurred during the war; after investigating

73 MR. PITT'S [March i$t
the provision which had been made to meet it ; after consider
ing the probable amount of the total expense of public service
for tlie whole of the year 1797, and the sums now applicable
for defraying it ; — I say, Sir, after taking these steps, it was also
my intention to move that further instruction should be given
to the committee to exercise a full power in forming and di
gesting a plan for controlling the public expenditure, and to
inquire into, and report upon, the best and most practicable means
for obtaining a diminution thereof. I therefore, Sir, am not a
little surprized, after stating these measures in general terms-
measures which I contend have been sanctioned by the unani
mous concurrence of the house, in consequence of the appoint
ment of the committee for the professed and acknowledged con
sideration of those very objectSj that the honourable gentleman
should now bring forward a motion to the same end, and
without any previous notice whatever. The instruction for the
committee, the nature of which I had thus before stated in
general terms, I held in my hand ready to move, when the
honourable gentleman brought forward his motion ; for I cer
tainly did not think any new proposition on the same subject
could be urged, after an express declaration of my desire that
the most speedy and effectual measures should be taken, which
went to retrench the great and heavy expenses of war, and were
of infinitely superior magnitude to any diminution that might
be expected in the salaries of the public offices.
Without entering at this moment into a particular discussion,
whether there exist-any specific grounds to authorize the house
to proceed to a reduction of useless offices, or to a retrenchment
ofprofuse salaries, I can only say, that it is not my wish to
oppose an inquiry to that effect. But I feel I shall not do my
duty to the house and the public, if I were to agree to any
other examination than that which I have proposed, and
which has received the concurrence of the house. The ho
nourable gentleman has, however, neglected many important,
and, indeed, necessary considerations in suggesting his motion.
He seems, in the first place, to have been unmindful that the

179/.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 79
limits of the proposed reduction should be expressly declared.
He next forgets, that the steps which have been already taken
to.effect the same end," should be submitted to the consideration
of parliament, as a guide to direct their measures; and above
all, that no ill-founded hope may be raised without fully look
ing into the subject on which the decision is to be formed. If
it can appear that retrenchment, both in the number and ex
pense of public offices, is calculated to promote the public ser
vice, I am convinced there is no man in this house that will
oppose it. But the question now before us is, what are' tlie
specific grounds on which the honourable gentleman brings for
ward his motion ? It is incumbent on him to point out, in a
decisive manner, abuses which are said to exist in the per
formance of duties, or in payments for services which are not
done for tlie public. I know, Sir, how very easy it is to give
credit out" of doors to the reports of abuses in sinecure places
and pensions ; but I really believe it is a subject, as much mis
taken as any. other of a public nature. I therefore think, in
whatever way the inquiry may terminate, that it will not be
of much utility. If it can be shewn that there, are strong
grounds for correcting abuses, much may be gained' for tlie
public good; but if, on the contrary, it shall appear {hat there
are no specific grounds to warrant a strong measure of that kind,
and that the idea ofthe prevalence of abuses in the offices of the
state is erroneous, much also is gained by removing an opi
nion, which might otherwise diminish the national confidence.
Offices of very different descriptions come within the honourable
gentleman's motion: tlie first which present themselves to
notice are absolutely necessary, and in respect to them the
inquiry fairly stated is, whether or no the number of offices is
more than the different duties of them require; and secondly,
whether the reward for the exercise of the various talents and
industry necessary for the due execution of them is too great ?
It might also form a most important consideration, whether
the same talents, the same diligence, and perseverance, at pre
sent employed in the performance ofthe duties annexed to these,

80

MR. PITT'S [MaS6h 1$)

offices, might riot be rewarded in an equal or superior manner,
were they applied to and exerted in the ordinary pursuits of
life? I have, Sir, no hesitation in saying, that it is an unjust
idea to imagine, that the abilities and labour devoted to ithe
service of the public should not be paid as Well, and to the full
as liberally by the public, as those which are applied in private
life to the interest of individuals, and which are rewarded by
individual compensation. Next to the offices which I have no<<
ticed; and which must be viewed in a necessary light, I come
to those which relate to state duties. Many of them are at
tended with considerable expense for the maintenance of the
relative duty they should hold to the high ranks in life of those,
near whom they are placed. If we lobk into the various offices
connected with the army, the navy, and the revenue, we shall find,
that the wages they receive are not higher than those they
might earn by an equal exertion in private life, from indivi
duals; and, therefore, Sir, the real state of the question ar/- -s
pears to be, whether they are paid in a larger way by the
public, than they would be by particular persons, for the perJ
formance of equal services. I only state this, that gentlemen
may turn it in their minds, and not be induced to take up the
matter in a general view. There are unquestionably offices of
another description — of less business and with fewer duties
attached to them; but I think it necessary to observe, that they
arise out of our ancient manners, and are, in fact, the remnants
of former times, attached to the splendour of Majesty, and at
tendant on the dignity of monarchy. lam not inclined to say
what should be flte exact sum for duties of this kind. I only
maintain, that such offices have ever existed; and such has
been the custom of all countries which have been governed by
monarchs. This custom has been interwoven in our constitu
tion, and forms an appendage to our mixed government ; not
for the display of idle parade ; not for the loose gratification of
'idle vanity, but sanctioned by the authority of our 'ancestors,
and continued for the dignified consistency of appearance in the
king of a great and free people. Having noticedvthis branch

1797] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 81
of public duties, I shall only observe, that though not included
in the first class, they should notwitlistanding be considered as
connected with your constitution of mixed monarchy. Another
description of offices is of a more invidious nature than any I
have yet mentioned. I allude to sinecure places, which, not
withstanding the ridicule and severity with which they may be
commented on by some gentlemen, are capable of being looked
at with the eye of reason. I shall, Sir, shortly state the prin
ciples on which they stand. They stand on the invariable cus
tom of this-country ; they are recognized by the solemn deci
sions of parliament. It will not, I trust, be denied, that tha
fair principle of honourable remuneration has ever been held a
sacred consideration. It will not, I hope, be contested, that a
provision and retreat for a life devoted to the public service, has
ever been deemed a just and irresistible motive for conferring
permanent rewards.
The question then presents itself, whether, at the instant
when one common sweep is designed, to remove all offices in
which actual duty is not performed, remuneration for actions
done in the service ofthe state is a wise, a just, and an useful
principle? Another inquiry will naturally arise, and that is,
whether the modein which they are distributed is more liable
to abuse than any other ? In the consideration of this question,
I will not confidently maintain that the first principle of remu
neration may not sometimes be misapplied, as it frequently
depends on chance, discretion, and various causes, which it is
unnecessary for me to enumerate. It may also be objected, that
it cannot be ascertained by a precise rule how to reward precise
merit. But then, Sir, I say, can any other method more effi
cacious, more independent of abuses, and less liable to errors,
be adopted? Can any other mode be pointed out in which
chance and discretion are to be completely laid aside? Sup
pose, Sir, for a moment, that even an application to parliament
should be made the constitutional way of bestowing this kind of
rewards ; can it be imagined that such a proceeding would pro-
vox, m. e

82 MR piTT'S - [March It,
duce less complaint and murmurs than the present way in which1
they are conferred ? I beg, therefore, gentlemen will not
conclude, because there may be some offices connected witS
government which it may be wise to reform, that all are indis
criminately to be wiped away. I should imagine, that a correct
artd particular statement ought to be made of useless offices, and
excessive salaries ; that specific objections should be precisely
stated, and thus, by pursuing an authentic detail, the house
might be enabled to entertain a probability of the saving which
could be made for the country. But, Sir, if without resorting
to any of these indispensable measures, if without establishing a
proper clue, which in the course of inquiry would lead to a-
j ust conclusion, you were to precipitate this business, I must
contend, that instead of striving to meet the popular opinion,
instead of serving the essential interests of the nation, you
would, on the contrary, act in opposition to both, -and even
excite general discontent. In such a case, the house would not
do justice to themselves, nor to their constituents. This is not,
however, the first time you have been called on to interfere in
similar considerations. The honourable gentleman brought
forward, in the last parliatnent, a resolution of the same nature
which he has this night proposed ; and the event of it is fresh in
every person's recollection. In a former parliament, a plan,
which contained a particular detail, which furnished a full
statement of the grounds of the application, and which went
to a general economical reform, was brought forward by a
right honourable gentleman,* who is no longer a member of
this house; yet parliament, at that period, and in an hour
of confessed necessity, with every possible authority before
them, with every document which a well-digested and a judi
ciously-executed plan could, furnish, with the report of the
commissioners invested with powers to examine into the various
branches comprehended in the proposed reform, — I say, Sir,
parliament, with all these authorities before them, which the
most exalted talents, or the most minute investigation, could
supply, proceeded in a very cautious and limited manner. They
•-•Mr. Burke.

1797] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 83
abolished some offices, and reduced the value of others ; but
' they did not allow themselves to extend their reform beyond a
prudential and constitutional line of conduct ; and what cannot
be too closely attended to, they effected no change nor modi
fication whatever, without the aid of incontrovertible evidence,
and tlie assistance of positive fact. They wisely lopped off
whatever was proved to be superfluous, and they made reduc
tions to the amount of many thousand pounds. To them were
added savings by the commissioners of his Majesty's treasury,
which were confirmed by the vote of parliament. But when
they came to investigate the offices held under the exchequer,
and proceeded to take into their consideration the nature of the5
tenure by which sinecure places were held, they did not think
fit entirely to lop them off. The tellers of the exchequer, and
several other offices, were retained and recognized by the reso
lution of parliament as necessary to be continued. Such was '
the opinion of the right honourable gentleman who proposed
the reform, and such were the sentiments even of some gentle
men whom I now see over against me. A considerable reduc
tion was then also, effected in different offices of the customsj
while some were entirely dropped j and, with respect to subor
dinate employments, large additional savings were made. 1
have now to observe, that, -in all these retrenchments, the
house proceeded on the general and acknowledged principle of
remuneration for public services which I have already stated ;
and of such weight was that principle, that even Mr. Burke
himself, though animated with the most enthusiastic zeal to
carry his plan into execution, was on every occasion ready to
recognize not only the -wisdom, but the necessity of adopting
it. I maintain, Sir, that sinecure offices are given in the nature
of a freehold tenure. Parliament has expressly said, they will
respect them as freehold property : and if, in answer to this
solemn declaration, it is urged, that parliament may rescind
their former resolutions, I say they may, by a parity of reason
ing, destroy every kind of property in the country. JBut t«
« 2

84 MR. PITT'S [March 13,.
dwell any longer on, this kind of argument would be too absurd
to merit attention ; and I have only to observe, that we ought
not to lose sight, even for an instant, of those grand principles
which lead to, and are inseparable from, the administration of
public justice. I repeat, Sir, it is my sincere and earnest wish,
that the house should ascertain ' the particular offices which
may be paid beyond the duties annexed to them, and beyond
the trust and responsibility which attach to them. But until
that great and necessary measure takes place, you cannot proceed
to retrench or to lop off.
I must once more entreat the attention of the house, to the-
nature of the honourable gentleman's motion, and to the time
in which it is proposed. The tendency of it is completely in
cluded in the instruction of which I have already given a
general statement, and which I have given notice I should move
for the direction of the committee, and it is brought forward
at the very moment when a general investigation is set on
foot with respect to the whole finance of the country, and with
a view of ascertaining a plan for controlling the public expen
diture. If therefore, Sir, it should be the opinion of the house
to refer to the . committee the subject ofthe honourable gentle
man's motion, as part of the general inquiry with which it was
intended they should be entrusted, it would be an easy matter,
if the words of the instruction were thought too general, to
introduce particular terms that might peculiarly specify it.
On these grounds I oppose the motion, convinced as I am,
that were I to agree to it, the public could derive no benefit from
it, and that I myself should become a party in the disappoint
ment, and in the delusion of the people : I therefore move the
previous question.
The previous question was carried,
Ayes ------ I69
Noes ------ 77

17973 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. tS

March 23, 1797.
Mr Fox, in pursuance of a previous notice, this day submitted to the
House the following resolution ;
" That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, that his Majesty
will be graciously pleased to take into his royal consideration the disturbed
state of his kingdom of Ireland, and to adopt such healing and lenient
measures as may appear to his Majesty's wisdom best calculated te restore
tranquillity, and to conciliate the affections of all descriptions of his Ma
jesty's subjects in that kingdom to his Majesty's person and government."
The motion being seconded by Sir Francis Burdett, Mr. Pitt rose :
Sir— However generally the terms of the motion of the right
honourable gentlemen are couched, for an address to his Majes
ty, it is utterly impossible for any man to form his judgment on
the merits of it, unless by proceeding to separate it from the va
rious and collateral topics which he has thought proper to intro
duce, and without which -the proposed address would, in reali
ty, be indistinct and unnecessary. He has, in the early part of
his speech, developed a subject to which I most seriously desire
to call the attention of tlie house. The right honourable gen
tleman, who has made a speech on the whole system of the
Jrish legislature, who has argued at large upon the principles and
frame of it, who has considered in a very ample manner its apti
tude to make laws, and who has gone at length into the disposi
tion of the people, with respect to the practical effect of these
laws, began by reminding us, when he stated to the House the
discontents now existing in Ireland, that it was necessary to have
recourse to that period when we recognized and fully established
the complete independence ofthe Irish legislature, as it might be
known whether we gave that independence as a boon or a right
—whether that measure was a concession to Ireland. There
js one certain point in which we must all coincide by having re
course to that period, and the truth of which the right honoura
ble gentleman himself cannot controvert — that whether the esta
blishment of the independence of Ireland was a . concession or 8
g 3

So- MR. PITT'S [March 23,
recognition on our part, it was putting Ireland in the absolute
possession of independence in point of fact. He had himself,
on former occasions, fully admitted and acknowledged that im
portant truth, and to oppose it would tend to shake the authority
pf the parliament of Great Britain.
' But, Sir, I beg -leave to ask in what parliament of Ireland
was it that he recognized the independence of the legislature of
that country, and the necessity of which he then urged with so
- much force ? Was it one formed on a more extensive frame
than that which now exists ? Did it include more persons attach'!
ed to the Rqman catholic interest of Ireland than it does now,
pr was it more calculated to give satisfaction at a time when con
cessions were npt .made in their favour, than now when such
measures have actually taken place ?. Yet that very parliament,
which existed at the period to which the right honourable gentle*
man has thought proper to have, recourse, was conceived to be
the national source of the most valuable blessings to Ireland,
Surely he did not mean to say that, when he himself pressed forr
' ward in establishing the independence of Ireland, he was then
only putting the. people of that country in possession of a delu>
sion, and that tlie legislature was incapable of conveying to thg
inhabitants pf the country the enjoyment of practical liberty.
The right honourable gentleman will not therefore now maintaitj,
that, in the year 1782, he considered the parliament pf Ireland £q
extremely defective in its frame and principles, that the nation
could receive no essential benefit frona the line of conduct then
pursued by it ; and if he will npt say that, (and I am perfectly
convinced he cannot say what would necessarily exppse him ta
the charge of the most glaring. inconsistency,) I am naturally led
to inquire on what ground it now happens^ that we are to comp
this day to votetm, address for an alteration in the frame of that
parliament, the superintendance of which we have entirely put
put of our controul by the recommendation of the right honourr
able gentleman, and the independence of which we have un
equivocally acknowledged ? By what means will he make it ap
pear, that, having renounced all power oyer the legislature of

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES^ 8?
Ireland, having formally abdicated the privilege which might
have once existed, of enforcing any internal regulation in that
country, having solemnly divested ourselves of all right, of
whatever nature that right may have been, to make laws in any
respect for Ireland ; I say, Sir, by what particular means will he
undertake to make it appear that it now remains for us to declare,
what laws shall affect that country, and to dictate the precise
modifications which he proposes to take place in the fixed princi
ples of the legislature itself ? In the year 1782, having given to
Ireland a distinct and independent legislature, having, with every
solid testimony of good faith, laid asWe all pretensions to interfe
rence in the internal concerns of the nation, can any person
now point out a subject to which Ireland should look with such
well founded jealousy, as the subject presented to the considera
tion of the house by the right honourable gentleman's motion ?
I am ready to admit, that the address, proposed as it is, does
not exactly say so ; but, Sir, it conveys too much by implication,
not to call for the attention of the house in a serious manner.
Let us for a moment compare it with the speech ofthe mover, and
if we proceed upon that just and reasonable ground, to which the
right honourable gentleman himself can have no objection, as
his speech forms the ground-work of his. motion, it will in that
case be found to convey what ought not to be stated in general
terms, but expressed clearly and fairly.
The motion submitted, to the house is, Sir, if I recollect right,
for an address to his Majesty, that he will be pleased to take into
his gracious consideration the present disturbed state of Ireland,
and to adopt such healing and lenient measures as may restore
it to tranquillity. But what can be the effect of such an address ?
Will it be maintained that the situation ot Ireland has not been
the frequent subject of his Majesty's thoughts? Can it with the
shadow of propriety be urged, that the royal mind has been at
any time exempt from those considerations which may best pro
mote the happiness of his people ? What then can be the object
of the address? It proposes to his Majesty the propriety of
.adopting measures for the restoration of the tranquillity of his
g4

85 MR. PITT'S . [March 23, ,
subjects of Ireland. But such, Sir, must be his Majesty's dis
position : and to what purpose will our advice tend ?. No man
can presume to say, that such is not the firm desire, as it most
undoubtedly is the interest, of the executive government.
During what part of his Majesty's reign has there appeared any
mark of neglect to the interests of the people of Ireland ? On the
contrary, Sir, the most solid testimonies have been given of the
sincerity of his intentions to promote the happiness of that
country, not by promises, not by declarations, but by deeds and
acts which have been received with grateful satisfaction by the
whole nation. The most minute attention has been paid to the
commerce, to the agriculture, to the manufactures of the
country ; and what was at the time considered as the most valu
able measure, the independence ofthe legislature was recognized
beyond a possibility of doubt. The whole has been one conti
nued succession of concessions, and to such an extent, that
during the present reign, they have exceeded all the preceding
ones put together since the revolution.
But, Sir, if further concessions are demanded, if^the object
of the address consists in soliciting these concessions, I must
contend, that while it does not precisely point out the particular
measures, which are to be adopted, it is, in the general state in
which it now stands, nugatory and superfluous. If, on the other
hand, the address is compared with the right honourable gen
tleman's speech, which indeed must be viewed as the chief
ground of the motion, I maintain that it would be absurd and
impossible to express propositions any way conformable to the
sentiments delivered in the course of that speech. In the first
place, let us consider them politically. If they mean, that the,
lord lieutenant of Ireland is accountable for any misconduct
during his administration of public affairs there, as the servant
of the crown, and it shall be urged that the controul of abuses.
of that kind remains with this country, I answer to that— granted.
If in another point of view they go, as was in a certain degree
conveyed by the honourable baronet who seconded the motion,
to arraign his Majesty's ministers for gross errors and crimes

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 89
committed in the government of Ireland, and to bring them to
trial, I again answer — granted. But, if they are calculated to
express and recommend measures which are not within the
province of the executive government of Ireland, it is but fair
and also necessary to ask, are these measures so recommended
tp be carried into execution by his Majesty, who is only a part
ofthe legislative authority of Ireland, and what must seem still
more extraordinary, are they to be so adopted by the desire of
tlie parliament of Great Britain ? I beg leave to demand, whether
his Majesty is not bound to act in what concerns the internal
regulation of Ireland, in consequence of the advice of the legist
lature of that country ? Our assenting to the address would
therefore.be highly unconstitutional with respect to Ireland, and
we could not for a moment entertain such an idea, without being
guilty of an unjustifiable interference in the duties of the legis
lative and executive government of that nation. Such, Sir, is
the real ground on which I oppose the address.
There certainly have been many other collateral topics brought
forward, with which the right honourable gentleman has judged
it proper to embellish his speech, but which do not apply to the
question, and the discussion of which may do much mischief,
without producing one single advantage. I will not, therefore,
enter int® a review of all the various statements and arguments
that have been used, nor will I declare whether tlie right
honourable gentleman's assertions are right or wrong ; but I will
leave it to the justice and to the candour of the house to decide,
whether any one point he has this night proposed, can be carried
into effect by any other means than by the voice of tlie Irish
legislature ? I must also pbserve, that he has, in the cnurse of
his speech, gone into a long historical narrative, and has at
tempted to shew, that the Irish legislature is so framed as not to
be adequate to perform its functions for the practical happiness of
the people ; that the principles on which it acts are radically de
fective, and that while it remains in its present state, the nation,
pr at least the majority of the nation, cannot enjoy the essential
pressings of a free constitution. In answer tp this, Sir, I must

90

MR. PITT'S [March 23„r

beg leave to direct the attention of the house to the great and
important consideration, that the parliament of 'this country has
completely recognized, and solemnly established the indepen
dence of that of the kingdom of Ireland, which is as entirely
distinct and as incapable of being controuled by us, as we are
independent of them. Yet the right honourable gentleman pro-
poses an interference- in the internal concerns of those who
now have as much right to dictate to us, as we can possibly have
to prescribe rules of conduct to them'. Does it, Sir, become us
now to say, that they are not qualified to act for the good ofthe
people of Ireland, and that they are not entitled to the confidence
of their constituents ? — We who told the same people upwards of
fourteen years ago, that they were completely adequate to pro
mote the public happiness, that they were framed to secure the
prosperity of the country, and what cannot be too often stated,
fhat.tbey were unchecked by any external controul to deliberate
and decide on the great business of legislation ! If we speak thus
to that parliament, (and such must be our language, if we give
our assent to the address moved this night) I confess, Sir, it does
appear to me the most extraordinary and singular line of conduct
that can' be adopted, by one independent parliament against
another independent parliament. '
But allowing, for the mere sake of argument, that we are
authorized to dictate in the manner proposed by the honourable"
gentleman, is it reasonable that we should proceed in the way
he has pointed out on the bare suggestions which he has stated to
the house ? Should we, supported by assertions alone, assume
the power, which by his motion he seems to suppose we possess,
of watching over, and superintending the parliament of Ireland ?
With regard^ to what may be termed the practical part of the
right honourable gentleman's speech, thpugh.it is very far from
my wish to enter into a discussion of the various topics contained
in it, yet I only follow him to shew, that, by agreeing to his
proposition, however you disguise it by any specious name,
however you gloss it over by any artful expression, you do
nothing less than attempt directly to controul the legitimate au-

1 797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 91
thority of the parliament of another country, and to trespass on
the acknowledged rights of another distinct legislative power.
But, taking the honourable gentleman's arguments iii a different
point of view — assuming for a moment that he has made out his
case in an incontrovertible manner, and that he has fully proved
to our satisfaction that the parliament of Ireland was, in the year
3 782/ in every respect competent to perform its functions, and
is at this time directly the reverse, I wish to know what is the
practical conclusion he draws from my admission ; and in what
manner does he propose to remove the evil which I thus suppose
he has clearly made out ? What remedy, Sir, does he attempt
to point out ? Does he give us a single idea to guide us in the
execution ofthe task which he wishes to impose on us? It is our
duty to inquire what the principles are on which he invites us to
proceed; and what the precise limits are within which the subject
is to be confined. With respect to these questions — and I trust
every gentleman will readily allow them to be questions, not only
of great importance, but of absolute necessity, the right honour
able gentleman has left us entirely in the dark ; and he appears so
little impressed with the urgency of them, that he has not even
hinted at them in the whole course of his speech.
Having, Sir, noticed the first point to which the honourable
gentleman has called tlie attention of the house, I now come to
the other parts on which his observations have been made, relative
to the divided sfate and jarring interests of Ireland. He has
first dwelt on the discontents of the Roman catholics ; and in
the next place he has described at some length the grievances of
the protestants of the northern parts. He has, in the redress
which he proposes to make to both sides, admitted, that con
cessions ought to be made to both parties ; and from the state
ments of the right honourable gentleman, who thus wishes to
reconcile opposite claims, I am confirmed in my opinion that he
pnly desires, and is eagfer to effect an alteration in the frame of
the parliament of Ireland, as far as it may arise out of the pre
hensions of the catholics, and out of the demands of the inhabi
tants of the north. And here, Sir, I feel myself called on to

9% MR. PITTS [March 23,
notice the declaration made by the right honourable gentleman,
that he would not enter into the particulars of the respective
discontents of both parties, and yet he immediately after, not
withstanding that declaration, laid before the house a minute
detail of circumstances on which 1 will not now dwell, thinking
as I do, that a discussion of that nature is more calculated to
inflame tlie minds of many than to prove of any essential service.
When he came to mention the subject of religion, which has,
according to his statements, produced many of the present dis
contents, he certainly did not seem very solicitous to preserve
the church establishment, and though he does not wish to address
the throne for the adoption of any particular line of conduct, it
is something singular that he should recommend a measure that
must affect a great mass of private property and even injure the
church itself.
Not deeming it necessary to trouble the house any longer oij
these particulars, and convinced, as I am, that neither we nor
the crown can interfere to effect that which exclusively belongs
to the parliament of Ireland, I shall make a few observations on
what lias fallen from the right honourable gentleman with respect
to the rights of which the Roman catholics are possessed, and
also on the subject of those additional rights which it is his
desire they should yet obtain. He observes that the catholics
ought to have the general right of voting, of sitting in the legis
lative assembly, and of filling the public offices. To this, Sir,
I answer, that they are in the actual possession of every other
right, but that they certainly do not possess the right of voting
for members of parliament, unless according to qualifications
prescribed by law. This I conceive to be the mere state in which
the catholics are placed. But, says the right honourable gen
tleman, enough has not been done to extend to them civil and
religious liberties. Have not concessions of the most liberal kind
been made to them since the revolution ; and, during the present
jeign, has not every possible pledge been given to them of real
affection and sincere zeal for their best interests on the part of
the crown ? B»t, Sir, it is curious to remark, the detail which

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 33
the right honourable gentleman proposes, even admitting that
the present subject is a proper one for us to recommend to th*.
adoption of the executive government. In this detail there un
questionably arises an inconsistency, which he will find it no
easy matter to do away. He first declares that he means to
satisfy the catholics, by conferring on them the power of voting
generally. But he immediately adds, that, by pursuing that mea
sure, we shall not be able to give them any weight in point of
political liberty ; for, as he maintains that the elective franchise
is so managed in Ireland, that it is entirely in the power of cor
porations to bestow or to withhold it, it would consequently be
impossible for them to gain any material benefit, or to obtain
any political influence, even if tlie law, which he himself wishes
to be passed in their favour, Were to take place. It therefore
appears evident, that the remedy proposed by the right honour
able gentleman himself, must be inadequate to meet the evil
which he so seriously laments. And it naturally follows, as I
have before had occasion to observe, that the great end of his
plan is to alter essentially the whole' frame ofthe constitution of
the legislature of Ireland. In other words, Sir, the right ho
nourable gentleman proposes an investigation and a scrutiny into
the pretensions of the catholics of the south, and of the pro-
testants of the north, for the express purpose of laying down
what he considers to be just principles; and then the parliament
-of Ireland must be new modelled and revised, in consequence of
his previous inquiry. But is it reasonable to call on the par
liament of England to do that very thing which must not only
be condemned by the parliament of Ireland, but is not entertained
in the opinion of even a considerable number of persons ? Yet,
Sir, this question, which calls into doubt the existence' ofthe
whole constitution of Ireland, is to be brought forward on mere
surmise, and without the shadow of authority. I say, it does
not come within the constitutional right which we may possess,
of controlling the executive government. It certainly does not
come within the possibility of any right, which we can possess, of
interfering in considerations which exclusively belong to a legis
lature totally separate from, and independent of us.

;§4 MR. PITT'S [Mar6h23,
The other points, which the right honourable gentleman has
referred to, are lost, if possible, in more obscurity than that
which I have just noticed. The various and clashing pretensions
of the different parties are so extremely opposite, that it would
be an arduous task to reconcile them. And if, in commending
certain political principles which are acknowledged by the
northerns, he has in his mind principles founded on the French
doctrine of the sovereignty of the people, and intimately con
nected with those revolutionary tenets which have produced such
vast mischiefs throughout Europe, J maintain,. Sir, that it would
be contrary to the duty of the parliament of Great Britain to
entertain the motion of the right honourable gentleman, sup
ported as it is by the speech which hehas this night delivered.
There are, Sir, none of his considerations on which we can
prudently or safely pronounce ; for there are none of them which
may not excite such a flame as we shall never have it in our
power to extinguish. They involve objects most delicate in their
nature, and dangerous in their consequences. They embrace
difficulties' of a prodigious extent; and on which I shall not
dwell, as they have been sufficiently described in the speech of
the right honourable gentleman, so as to make us shudder with a
just apprehension of the fatal and dreadful effects that must
result from them. I must, therefore, Sir, consider the address
proposed as a blind injunction, without any specific extent or
means of execution. On this short ground I oppose the motion ;
and, with the conviction of the dangers that must arise from the
adoption of it, with the solemn recognition of the independence
of the parliament of Ireland, with a just sense*of our duty that
others may not in their turn be .wanting to us, I cannot enter
tains doubt but that the motion will be rejected by a considera
ble majority pf the house ;
The motion was rejected ',
Ayes ------ 84
. Npesi ----- 220 i

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 95

April 4, 1797.
Mr. Sheridan, conforfnably to the notice he had given on a Former day,
called the attention of the House to the subject of making further advances to
the Emperor of Germany; concluding his observations with moving the fol
lowing resolution : " That the House will resolve itself into a Committee of
the whole House, to inquire whether it is consistent with a due regard to the
essential interests of this country, that, under the present circumstances, any
further loans or advances should be made to his Imperial Majesty."
Mr. Pitt rose, as soon as the motion was read :
The speech of the honourable gentleman, who has just sat
down, varied so much from his motion, and there was so little
resemblance with the opinions he advanced, and the proposition
with which he concluded, that I find it extremely difficult to"
adopt a train of argument which will bear upon both at one time.
The argument ofthe honourable gentleman, which he pretended
to found upon a long detail of circumstances, in his opinion un
deniable in point of fact, and certainly, if they are true, very
serious in their nature, pointed to a conclusion, in which, he
premised that the house would betray their trust to their con
stituents, if they did not join, and from which, if they ventured
to dissent, he apprehended the most fatal consequences would
ensue to the country. He stated the subject now under discus
sion, as one not to be hung up or suspended, not as one upon
which information ought to be collected, and mature deliberation
exercised before a decision was passed; but he described it with
all that richness of imagery and aptness of allusion of which he is
so much master; with even multiplied illustrations, as one on
which a moment's delay ought not to be permitted, and on which
to hesitate was to sacrifice the best interests of the nation. It
was a case, according' to him, in which patience led to death. I
must observe, in setting out, however, that his analogies, how
ever various and beautiful, were not very appropriate. He re
presented the absurdity of inquiring into the nature ofthe instru
ment by which & wound was inflicted, before bandages and styp-

96 MR. PITT'S [ApRit 24,
tics were applied, and the insanity of waiting for the coroner's
inquest upon a person drowned, before the means recommended
by the humane society were used for his recovery. He forgot,
however, that his motion, as calculated to operate upon the,
political malady of the state, did not correspond with the steps
which ought to be taken in the first instance with a person
wounded or drowned. In order to make the allusion accurate,
his argument should have stated, that the continuance of remit- ,
tances to the emperor would produce an inability in tlie bank to
make good tlieir money payments; or, supposing that inability to
have just arisen, he should have shewn, that the measure recom
mended in his motion was the best which could be adopted to
remove that inability. It so happens, however, unfortunately
for the accuracy of his allusion, that money payments-have been
suspended at the bank for a considerable time ; that an order of
council was issued as the best remedy at the moment for the dif
ficulties of the bank ; that this suspension has been recognized by
the house of commons; and that the legislature, anxious to devise
the best mode of restoring the credit of that corporation by rein
stating it in its former situation of solvency, has thought proper,
as a fit preliminary' to that deliberation, to appoint a secret com
mittee to inquire into the causes of its embarrassments. This is
is the true state of the question.
The honourable gentleman, in his argument, represented his
motion as essential to the very being of the bank, and of the
country, and as one from which the house cannpt withhold its
assent without sealing their own reproach and infamy, by sacri-
fici ng every trust which has been delegated to them by the nation 5
and when the motion was read, it turned out to be nothing more
than an ambiguous attempt to make them pronounce indirecdy
an opinion upon a subject, upon which they were not yet in
possession of information sufficient to enable them to pass a fair
and just decision. For though the case was of such a nature, as
represented in his speech, that it could admit of neither doubt
nor delay, his motion went to nothing more than the appoint
ment of a committee to inquire into the circumstances connected

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 97
with it. Does the honourable gentleman mean that the house
should now resolve itself into that committee, and report to
night ? If this is his intention, where would be the candour of
the proceeding in respect of those who wish for further inform
ation, and who are unwilling to deliver an opinion till that in
formation is collected ? If he does not mean that the house should
now resolve itself into this committee, then I object to the mo
tion as ambiguous, disingenuous, and uncandid, as capable from
its nature of being understood two ways, and as tending to mis
lead the house upon the subject on which they are called upon to
decide. The honourable gentleman knows, and the house must
be aware, that every question which respects the disposal
of the public money must be agitated in a committee of the
whole house, so that whether the house may think it proper to
give their sanction to the honourable gentleman's argument or
not, it must be in a committee of that description which the
subject will eventually come before, and in which their decision
will be finally given. There is this difference, however, that
at present they are not in possession of that degree of inform
ation which is necessary for them to decide upon a question of
so much importance ; whereas they will then have the materials
before them, from which such information is to be collected. If
the honourable gentleman contends that the information of which
they are at present in possession, is sufficient to enable them to
form a correct judgment of what ought, or of what ought not to
be done, > why does he not move them to come to an immediate
decision without going into a committee at all ? In short, it was
as superfluous in one view, as it is inconsistent and contradictory
in another. I should not think that the house will consider it
to be their duty to sanction the opinions of the honourable gen
tleman, upon a yiew of their general policy and expediency, far
,less that they will decide upon a subject of so much importance,
with the scanty means of information now in their power ; but if
they mean to comply with the real object ef the motion and the
true wishes of the mover, let them do it in a fair and manly way,
and not by assenting to a motion as ambiguous in its nature as
vol.. Ill, K

98

MR. PITT'S [At rii, 4,

perfidious in its designs. This much I thought it. right to say
upon the narrow shape of the motion ; and having said so much
upon the question immediately before the house,, it is the less
necessary for me to dwell long upon the train of argument which
prefaced the proposition on Which it turns.
Though I differ very considerably from the honourable genr
tleman on many of the topics on which he touched, I entirely
agree with him on tlie general importance ofthe subject. I agree
with him in thinking that it is connected not only with the fate
of a great and powerful empire, but with the general fate and
destiny of the world ; but in proportion to its magnitude, ought
to be the caution of this, house in deciding upon it on nar?
row and confined principles. That these are domestic con?
siderations which arp highly mamentous, I readily admit, but
J would remind the house that there may be a narrow mode of
looking at them. Withput attending tp the circumstance of our
having a great and powerful enemy to contend with, flushed with
success, and ambitious of conquest, with means, of bringing into
the field more numerous armies than perhaps ever were known,
and without attending to the circumstance .of our insular situation,
which in time of war renders a continental diversion of great
cpnsequence tn pur external security"; but censidering it merely
as a question to be decided upon the principles of economy, and
Calculating the effect, which granting pecuniary remittances to
his imperial majesty at the present moment, has a tendency to
produce upon public credit, upon the success ofthe war, and in
accelerating the period and improving the terms of peace, I have
no hesitation in pronouncing an opinion, that the result of this
calculation will be, that this country,. by sending pecuniary asist-
ance to her magnanimous and faithful ally, will adopt the best
mode of consulting real economy, of restoring public credit, of
prosecuting the war, while war is necessary, with advantage,
and of securing a speedy and honourable issue to the contest.
Were the house therefore -to be driven to a decision upon the
subject, I should state this as my clear opinion; but by deferring
that decision till they have the means of information more fully

1797] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 99
before them, the influence of my opinion, I firmly believe, will
be superseded by their own conviction, and on that account I
am happy that the honourable gentleman does not mean to press
it to aii ultimate decision to-night. The more the subject is
discussed, tlie fewer doubts will be left upon the minds of gen
tlemen of the. propriety of the measure, and the more the cir
cumstances of the case are investigated and analysed, the more
will the opinion of its policy and utility be confirmed. As an
opportunity for this discussion will hereafter occur, I do not
think it necessary now to enter much at lengh upon the different
topics connected with.it. I shall, therefore, only say a few words
on each of them.
In the first place let us try its merits as a measure of economy.
And here I must remind the house that the honourable gen-
'tleman, by his own confession, does not bring forward the pro
position as an indirect mode of forcing government to conclude
a peace by disarming the country. The question therefore is,
whether, as a mode of carrying on the war, the advantage which
is likely to arise to this country from the co-operation of the
emperor, secured by her pecuniary aid, is an equivalent for the
temporary inconvenience which the public may sustain in conse
quence of sending these remittances ? Tp estimate the advantages
with the inconveniences is very difficult. But, in the outset, I
must set right an assumption of 'tlie honourable, gentleman res
pecting the difference of this country granting or withholding
pecuniary assistance frpm her ally. The difference (which pf
itself is no small one) is not merely whether we are to carry en
an offensive or defensive war : this is one consideration, but it
is not the only one. The honourable gentleman may talk in as-
high terms as he will of French enthusiasm and French gallantly,
but he cannot deny, at least he cannpt in justice deny, an equal
tribute of applause to Austrian valour and Austrian heroism. If
we review the campaigns of the war, it is impossible to find iij
history instances of greater prowess in the soldier, of more ac-r
eomplished talents in the general, or of more true magnanimity
in the sovereign, than what they have exhibited. But the f e>

loo

MR. PITT'S [April 4»

sources of his imperial majesty are in such a situation, that with
all his zeal to persevere in the contest, and all his honour in
keeping his engagements with his allies, he cannot put the full
force of his dominions in action without pecuniary assistance.
Will any man then tell me that, if we cut off all hope of this
assistance, he may not be able to persevere in his exertions ?
Will any man tell me that, if there were no military diversions
created upon the Rhine or in the Tyrol, on the north or on the
south of France, her numerous armies would not be employed
in menacing our territory, and perhaps in invading our coasts ?
Or will any man tell me that if we withhold pecuniary assistance
from the emperor, that refusal may not lead to a separate peace
between Germany and Francs'? The difference then is, not
carrying on a defensive instead of an offensive war, butit is car
rying on a war Solely on your part, without any assistance to aid
your efforts, or any diversion to divide the force ofthe enemy,
instead of carryipg on the war as at present, in conjunction with
an ally whose exertions are able to resist the whole military
power of France, while your fleets are occupied in protecting
your trade and extending your foreign dominions. And do not
the advantages which we enjoy, as they may be estimated from
this short and simple statement, infinitely more than counter
balance any temporary, inconvenience that we may sustain from
the mode in which they are procured ? The honourable gen
tleman took occasion to introduce the subject of a report fiom a
secret committee of which he is a member, but which is not yet
before the house. I should wish therefore, that the house will
wait till .the report is produced, and not repose implicit confi
dence in any of the statements made by the honourable gentleman.
I do not know whether the peace establishment came under the
enquiry or calculation of that committee. I rather think that it
could not immediately come under their investigation. But
¦whether it did or not, I am happy to assure the house that
no such result, nor any thing approaching to it, will be found
to arise out of a fair examination of the circumstances of the
country.

1797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 101
But I find I am discussing the question on grounds, on which-
I ought not to object to it. Upon the train of argument which
I was before pursuing, it is easy to shew that, if we do not in
tend to lay down our arms, if we mean to continue any method
of exertion, if it be our wish to be in a situation to persevere iii
hostilities, if hostilities are necessary from the overbearing pride
and unjust pretensions of the enemy, it cannot be a measure of
economy to abandon the plan of availing ourselves of the co-ope
ration of his imperial majesty by contributing money to his as
sistance. When we consider the amount of tlie expense, and
the magnitude ofthe service, there is no ground of comparison
between them ! Upon what data does the honourable gentleman
assume that the measure will lead to any difference of expense
at all ? He may consider the war as unjust, as it was unneces
sary, and as ill conducted in its process, as it was groundlessly
undertaken : he may, if he pleases, think that the French were
right in every thing in which this country thought them wrong,
but he does not contend that we should this day throw down
our arms and make unconditional submission to the enemy.
Overlooking then the consideration of additional security, arising
from the co-operation of the emperor, and the effects of that
co-operation acting upon the spirit, the trade, the manufactures,
and the population of the country ; overlooking, I say, these
considerations (and surely when I put them aside none will
suppose that I view them as trifling- or unimportant) let him
calculate the additional direct expense which it requires to pro
ject our coasts from a vigilant and enterprising foe, who would
have nothing to do but to molest his only remaining enemy.
Reduce the public expenses as much as you can, and let the
inevitable burthens of the war be alleviated as much as possible
by well judged economy in the different branches of the public
service ; but be not so weak or so treacherous to yourselves as to
blot out one part of an estimate under pretence of economy,
while you create another service which must be provided for at
a much larger expense, and which would tend to aggravate the '
evil which it is your intention to cure.
H 3

102 MR. PITT'S [Aprix, 4
The honourable gentleman does not recommend his motion,
or rather he does not ground his opposition to the measure here
after to be proposed upon the tendency of this opposition, to
accelerate the restoration of peace. This, however, is an object
which on no political question ought to be set out of view, and
therefore I shall say a few words upon the subject in this point
of light. Of those who wish for peace, there are two classes..
There are some, and of these a very numerous body, who are
desirous for peace, as soon as peace can be obtained on safe
and honourable terms. To such it must be clear that the
object of their wishes cannot be secured by laying aside the
means of action. ' But there are others, and the honourable
gentleman may be one, who are of opinion that, for the attain-'
ment of peace, there are no terms which we ought not to ac
cept, no law to which we ought not to submit. Even those
who entertain these humiliating ideas, would be guilty of in
sanity, were they to add to their degradation by laying aside one
of the weapons to which they have to trust for the acquisition of
their darling object. Such conduct would betray a desire not
only to take any terms which the enemy might be pleased to
dictate, but to take every means to render these terms as bad as
possible. It is evident then, that the measure in agitation.;
affects the question of peace, both as it depends upon the period
of its restoration, and the terms on which -it may be concluded..
Did the reascnings-upon the subject leave any doubt as tothe
fact, the conduct of the enemy through the whole course of the
war would put the matter beyond all question.
Having said so much upon the topics of economy, and the-
return of peace, I proceed to advert to it as a means of restoring
public credit. Now, what does the honourable gentleman here
assume ? He assumes, that the great operating cause of the ,
present embarrassments has been foreign remittances ; and upon
this assumption, he objects to any further advances being made
tp tlie emperor. In this view of the subject, I shall beg leave
to throw out a few suggestions, which will lead not only to a
conclusion different from his, but to a conclusi on directly opposite^

1>97.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. . 103
The honourable gentleman has had the goodness to give me
intimation, that he has some serious charges to prefer against
me. Of course, I shall probably have opportunities enough irt
future of explaining my own conduct ; and with the decision
of the house I shall most willingly abide, whatever that
decision may be. As this is not the subject of discussion on
this night, perhaps it is improper in me to say any thing upon
it. I would only beg leave to observe, that the printed papers,
upon which tlie honourable gentleman commented, contain tlie
written representations of the bank, and, it is added, my answers.
These answers, however, were not given in writing, and what
is there printed under this title, is merely minutes of what
passed between me and the governor and deputy-governor of
the bank, reported for the perusal of the bank directors, with
out having been previously submitted to my examination ; nor
did I so much as see them till just before they were printed.
The honourable gentleman argues, that advances to the emperor
were calculated to produce ruinous consequences, that ruinous
consequences did ensue, therefore that the advances made to the
emperor were productive of ruinous consequences. This is very
short logic : but if he will not believe it to be false upon my
authority, if it is not too much to ask, let him compare it with
information. In order to make his conclusion good, he must
shew that the remittances made to the emperor actually did dimi
nish the cash in the bank, and that the issue of the order in council
was occasioned by the diminution produced by these remittances.
If it should appear that these advances did not occasion any diminu
tion of cash at the time that they were made ; on the contrary,
that the balance of cash rather increased, and that the mischief so
much and so justly lamented arose from the operation of causes
widely different, then, in justice as well as prudence, the house^,
ought not to ascribe an evil to a cause different from that in
Vvhich it originated.
The honourable gentleman preferred another charge, against
me, which I heard without much dismay — that I had
persisted in sending money to the emperor when I was aware
that the bank, from the line of conduct I was persuing,
H 4

104 MR. PITT'S [April 4,
Was- approaching to a state of insolvency. This, again, he takes' *
for granted witliout any information upon the subject. If it,
should turn out that, during the whole period that these remit
tances were made, so far was I from being aware of the ap-.
preaching difficulties of the bank, that by the successful operation
of commerce, the balance of exchange for all that time was in
favour of this country, insomuch that, if these circumstances
had continued, the state of the bank would at this day have
been growing better, the honourable gentleman will surely not
persist in the accusation, When he finds that the ground on
which it was preferred is wholly and completely fallacious. The
premises the honourable gentleman may wish to be taken on
trust ; but to this I object, not wishing to supersede his position
by any assertion of my own, but merely because the house are
not in possession of materials from which they can infer whether
it be true or false. When these materials are before them,
perhaps it may be found that the mischief arose from remittances
of cash, which were sent to Ireland to a greater extent than
usual, and to local alarms in this country, which caused a great
run upon the bank for some time before the order in council was
issued. This is all the answer which I think I need give to the
honourable gentleman's charge of misrepresentation.
I have only a word more to say respecting an expression in the '
Speech from the throne at the opening of the present session.
In that speech his Majesty was advised to state, that the re
sources of the country were equal to every exertion — an expres
sion founded certainly not upon a knowledge, of the balance of
cash or bullion at that time in the bank, but upon the survey of
the general state of trade and manufactures of the kingdom.
Our trade and manufactures certainly depend in a considerable
degreeupon the stability of public credit, which is interwoven
Vvith the independence of the country. To preserve that inde
pendence, then, is necessary above all things to the restoration
of public credit; and, next to the preservation of this inde
pendence, is the prevention of the danger of a future run upon
the bank. And here we may look at the question in two points

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 10S
of view. Let us first look at the best way to procure the greatest
quantity of cash; and, if the subject is fairly viewed, Pdo not
despair of convincing the house that the remittance of a sum to
the emperor, instead of obstructing and impeding the influx of-
cash into the kingdom, will accelerate and increase it. I will
grant that, if collateral circumstances did not vary, the balance
in cur favour would be diminished precisely in proportion to the
sum sent abroad. But will it be contended, that abandoning ait
ally would have no effect upon the markets of Europe, and that
such a step, were it taken by this country, would not influence
any of the avenues of her commerce ? Such a position is so
absurd and untenable, that it would be an insult on the good
sense of the house tp spend their time in combating it. But a
profitable trade depends not only on tlie state of the purchaser
to receive, but of the seller to send. « And need I ask what
effect it would have upon the zeal, the spirit, the industry, and
consequently the trade and manufactures of the country, were
our coasts to be incessantly threatened by the whole concentered
force of France, which would be tlie case were the emperor
obliged, in consequence of our refusing to aid him with money,
to conclude a separate peace with our common enemy ? When
the subject, therefore, is viewed in this light, who is so short
sighted as not to see, that the inconvenience which may arise
from present exertion would be much more, than counterba
lanced by the pressure of subsequent events ? If the argument
be admitted in one case, there is no possible case to which it
may npt be applied. In short, it may be argued upon the same
grounds, that, as soon as you experience the diffiailties arising
from a drain of cash, you must give up all your foreign con
nections, and upon this principle you ought to withdraw your
protection from all your possessions in the East and West Indies.
Of these possessions, for instance, it might be said, " True,
they have been accounted extremely valuable, they hare yielded
great profits, the produce of them has formed a great article
of commerce, and been the cause of a vast influx of wealth
info the country, but in time of war they put us to as

IOS MR. PITT'S [Apsil 4,
expense ; we will save therefore in future the expense of protec
tion." But how ? By sacrificing all the present and future ad
vantages which might flow from the possession of them. Pre
cisely the same argument will apply to an ally.
But if the reasoning is just in the view of procuring an influx
of cash from abroad, how much stronger is it in the view of pro
moting circulation at home, which is fully as necessary for the
restoration of the credit of the bank as the other ! If our foreign
commerce would be affected by the abandonment of an ally, how
much more would our internal situation be affected by the pres
sure which would naturally result from an enemy encreasing in
strength, in a direct ratio to our inability to resist his efforts !
Would not the natural consequence be a new alarm, accompa
nied with a disposition to hoard ? And thus . the immediate
cause of the mischief would be renewed. I trust that, though
there might be some cause for the late alarm, it is now almost
gone by ; and I am convinced, that the more the state of the
country is enquired into, the less ground there is for desponden
cy, or the apprehension of any danger which Englishmen may
not boldly meet with the fortitude which belongs to the national
character. While our object' is however to remove alarm, and
to restore the public credit, is it wise or prudent to court a great
er alarm ? Can it be expected that tlie effects of the greater
would be less serious than of the slighter alarm, or that even the
same effects would not do much more harm ? Those, then, •
who look to the restoration of public credit in tlie bank cf Eng
land as their favourite object, should be the last persons to coun
teract a measure which has an obvious tendency to produce that
event to which their wishes and their endeavours tend : and how
the honourable gentleman can claim the benefit of the argu
ment drawn from his subject, I have yet to learn, nor can I even
guess. There is still another topic left, upon which I feel myself im
pelled to say a few words, namely, the additional security that'
would be given to credit by the restoration of peace. Whether
the best mode of obtaining peace is to run the risk of losing tlie-

1J97J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 107
aid of tlie emperor, is a question upon which there exists but
littje doubt. We have seen long ago. that tlie uniform object of
the enemy's policy has been to disunite us from our ally. This
design has manifested itself in the course of several negotiations
and discussions, and we have seen a similar policy too success
fully practised with other powers who were formerly leagued with
us against France, and who have been seduced, some into a neu
trality, others into open hostility against us. She has publicly
and repeatedly declared her wish to make a separate peace with
Austria, that she might be enabled to dictate terms to us, or to
carry on the war against this country with greater effect. It is
but very lately that we have heard that France has, a short time
s*go, made distinct overtures of peace to the emperor to the ex
clusion of this country, and that he, with his accustomed honour
and good faith, instead of accepting of them, communicated
them to the court of St. James's, and renewed his declaration to
the enemy, that he would not conclude a peace except in con
junction with Great Britain, justly persuaded that no peace can
be concluded on a permanent foundation, but one founded upon a
due regard to the individual claims, and the common interests of
the different powers of Europe.
Putting apart, therefore, the obligations of gratitude and
honour, it must be obvious to every one whose views are not
confined within the narrowest and most contracted limits, .that
¦the best mode of attaining the desirable object of peace is, to per
severe in making a common cause with the emperor, and aiding
him with those means which his own dominions do not furnish,
but with which the resources of this country enable us to supply
him. It is for this house to determine whether they will give.
success to the intrigues of the enemy, which have hitherto been
frustrated by the fidelity and magnanimity of our ally, or whether
they will persevere in those measures, which are most likely to
bring the contest to a safe and honourable issue. To thtir judg
ment, and their spirit I leave the decision, convinced that they
will act in a manner becoming the representatives of a great and
powerful nation. On these grounds I think there is no use in

103 MR. PITT'S v [April i6s
countenancing the present measure, and as it does not commit1
the house tojriye any opinion upon the subject, I shall give it my
negative. The resolution was negatived, Ayes  87
Noes ------ 266

April 26, 1797.
The order of the day was read, and the House resolved itself into 4
sommittee of Ways and Means, Mr. Sylvester Douglas in the chair ;— .
the report of ,the select committee of finance having been previously re
ferred to the said committee.
Mr. Pitt : —
In the great and extensive prosecution of the business which
it is my duty this day to submit to the consideration of the com
mittee, it is impossible for me not to feel the weight and impor
tance of the burthens which our exigencies have occasioned, and
still less is it impossible for me not to feel considerable regret,
and great personal disappointment in being compelled, however
reluctantly, to propose an addition to the ample and large pro
vision already made, towards defraying the expenses ofthe country
in a wide and calamitous war, and increase the present bur
thens which are borne with unexampled patience by all ranks of
the community. I am conscious the sensations of every gentle
man in the committee will be hurt on this occasion, and I trust,
whatever may be their feelings upon this subject, they will give
me credit for my sensations being not less alive. But it is not;
my duty to dwell on those sensations. — Much as I regret the
causes of the war, and the calamities with which it has been at-'
tended ; much as I regret the manner in which the hope of a
speedy termination has been obstructed, and additional ex
penses thereby incurred; rough, as I regret increasing expenses,

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 10$>
where expenses have already been so much and almost so insuf
ferably increased j and whatever may be my own personal mor
tification and regret in being obliged to come forward at such a
distressful period with new burdens ; I feel it, notwithstanding,
to be my first great duty, as I hope and trust the 'house and
country will feel with me, with a firm and manly spirit, to con
vince the enemy that however great may be our pressure, how
ever embarrassed our circumstances,- we are determined to con
tend with them as long as we are able, rather- than submit to
haughty and dishonourable terpis. Though we may not be suc
cessful enough to accomplish the means by which we can termi
nate the fatal contest in which we are • engaged, consistently
with the honour, security, and permanent and essential inter-
> ests of the nation, let us yet convince our enemies, that our
spirit does not desert us in our trials, but that, in spite of every
difficulty, we will still be just both to ourselves and to our
country. In this sentiment I hope to meet the sense of the house
and the people at large, whose patriotism, justice, and mag
nanimity, as they never have failed in the most arduous conflicts,
will not, I trust, fail now, but will manifest, on the contrary,
that whatever may be the event, they have but one duty to purr
^ue, viz. to secure and preserve the safety, honour, and happi
ness ofthe kingdom. Without hesitation, though certainly not
without anxiety and regret, I shall now proceed to submit to the
committee what I have to propose.
In doing this, it is with .pleasure I declare, that I shall not
only derive great advantage, but that my labour is materially di
minished also by the very able and impartial statements of the
first report of the select committee of finance, which has been
printed and this day laid before you. However, in particular
parts, I may be justified in differing from these statements, how
ever favourable those statements may" be to the general wishes
of the house and of the country (and I am ready to confess they
are more favourable than what I have to propose), I shall guide
myself by their direction, and render that report the. basis ofthe
plan of my proposal. I shall follow the usual mode of proceed-

110 MR. PITT'S [April 25,
ing upon subjects of this nature, and first take a view of the
transactions which have caused the expenses for which we are
now called on to provide, and state what sums remain* to be pro
vided for ; I shall then compare these provisional demands with
what have been already provided for in the course of the present!
year, .and submit the plans which I propose for a further provi
sion ; and in this process I shall be as short and explicit as I can,
For this purpose, therefore, and according to the usual practice,
I shall first call the attention of the house to the whole amount
of services for the present year, with the amount of the sums
already voted for defraying them, and the amount of the sums
remaining to be voted ; and after that I shall detail the ways and
means by which these services have already been defrayed, and
by which the remainder may be defrayed ; and finally I shafl
state the specific measures which I mean to ground upon those
statements towards the provision for the accumulated interest and
charges. For the sake of being clear and intelligible, I shall
proceed article by article, under various heads ; and, to pursue
the customary mode, I shall of course begin with the navy.
The committee will recollect, that for the naval service of the
current year, there has been already voted the sum of 7,661,000/.
in addition to which the committee of supply has voted 5,000,000/.
mere. Gentlemen will recollect, that although I estimated the
expenses of the naval department at 7,661,000/. I then stated
my intention to propose the provision of a further sum of
2,500,000/. in order to remedy an inconvenience which here
tofore had arisen, and thereby have 10,161,000/. in cash to
wards defraying any excess of navy debt. Such, however, have
been the extraordinary exertions and expenses of the war, that
there yet remained an unfunded ' debt of the navy unprovided
for, to the amount of four millions. In the statements of the
select committee, a comparison has been given between this out
standing navy debt and the outstanding navy debt in 1783, and
the cpmmittee has made an allowance for 3,006,000/. In the
reports of the select committee it appears by the best estimates,
ihat, as far as they can be ascertained, the expenses for tlie navy

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. m
service would amount to 12,900,000/. which is short of what I
have stated them to be, but exceeding what I formerly consi
dered them. By way of reducing this amount, I ought further
to state that a sum of 800,000/. went in aid of tlie navy services
of 1796, and consequently left the provision for the services of
1797 deficient in that sum, for, however, careful we may be,
a part of the expenses will be carried on in navy bills, though
certainly to less extent than formerly. In the provision of
12,000,000/. four shillings per month would be carried to the
ordinary expenses nf the navy, whereby abput 110,000/. wpuld
be taken away from the unfunded debt. I suppose there will
then be a million, or a million and a half of navy debt afloat.
Such was my former statement, and compared with the state
ment of the committee, there is this difference, that it supposes
1,500,000/ of floating navy debt, instead of 3,000,000/. as the
select committee of finance has calculated. L do not know
whether I have expressed myself clearly upon this point; but
if not, I shall be happy to give any gentleman a further ex
planation. The next head of service is the army, upon which there has
been already voted the sum of 10,913,000/. The accounts for
foreign corps are not yet made out, but they soon will be, and I
have reason to hope their expenses will be less than were calcu
lated in my original statement, and less than they appeared to
the select committee. I have reason to think this diminution
will amount to one half, and that the sum of 370,000/. will be
sufficient ; 6,000,000/. was the total amount estimated for the
army establishment, independent of the extraordinaries, which
is less by 297,000/. than the estimates for the ensuing year by
the select committee. In 1796 there were some extraordinary
expenses of the army incurred, which at present remain unpro
vided for, to the amount of 3,287,000/. ; and in the interval of
.the 8th of December and the 1st of January, there was another
outstanding demand made evident of 100,000/. which, in conse
quence of not being paid, is to be added to the other, and makes
a sum of 3,387,000/, put-standing army debt to be provided for.

5i2 MR. PITT'S [Afril 26,
It appears by the report of the select committee, moreover, that,
by treasury bills paid at the bank, and warrants for army service
due and unpaid, a further sum of 2,081,000/. remains to be pror
vided for, inasmuch as treasury bills paid at the bank previous tp
the 5th of January 1797, and those which were due on the 8th
of January, but not included, amounted to 1,660,000/. to which
sjrere to be added 428,000/. for army warrants. So that the sum
total would be as before stated 2,088,000/. The estimated sum
fo be incurred by the army extraordinaries for 1 797* according
to the report of the secret committee, and for the amount of
which it is my intentiftn to provide, is 4,000,000/. It was not
proposed before Christmas to raise any sum of money for this
head of service, but so far as any calculation to the latest possible
period could be made, the calculation nearly tallied with that
sum. It is here to be observed, that the extraordinaries of the
army are now, for the first time, brought forward by way. of
estimate, at least they were never done so fully till the present
war, but 'they were paid out of the money granted for other ser
vices, leaving the provision for these services deficient to ano
ther year. In addition tp this, there has been advanced to the
emperor, by way of loan, and which will be due to the public
1,200,000/. and a .sum of 900,000/. advanced to the merchants
f>f Grenada and St. Vincents, which will also be returned. ,
There are further advances to the emperor to be set against the
expenses of extraordinaries to a very large amount, for which it
will not be necessary to provide a present fund, though I set
them down as so much credit against so much debt. The trea
sury bills and army warrants at home, did not go to the extent of
2,088,000/. ; but there were bills from remote parts, notwith
standing the precautions I had taken to calculate and curtail the
expenses abroad as much as possible, which exceeded what was
formerly thought upon estimate to be their utmost amount.
This might in part be owing to the unforeseen and incalculable
operations of the war : however, I did not think it consistent to
leave them to rest on distant means of payment, and I chose ac
cordingly to propose for their provision. This comprises all un
der the head of the army.

I797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. <il8
I now come to the ordnance department, for which there has
been already voted tlie sum of 1,623,000/. and to which I do
not mean to propose any addition. I must observe, however,
that since the estimates were made, a demand of 300,000/. to
pay debentures for stores supplied and services performed, has
come in for part of the ordnance expenses, in the same
manner as the treasury bills of 1,600,000/. of which I did not
then know. To this deficiency may be added another in the
barrack department, in which an outstanding debt remains, not
merely for the building of barracks, but for the expenses of pro-
'vision and accommodation, in which the soldiers would have
been furnished to the amount of the same charge upon the pub
lic if they had not been garrisoned in barracks, but had been
quartered elsewhere. I mention this to remove any prejudice
which might perhaps have otherwise been indulged^, and shall
conclude this article by recommending the provision' advised by*
the select committee of 7 17*000/. which in the present view of
this subject will defray the whole demands. I have now< pro
ceeded through the navy, army, and ordnance, in which I do>
npt recollect to have omitted any extraordinary items, except
that I have not mentioned a specific additional sum, which I-
mean to propose for the further relief of his imperial majesty in
the present critical period, and the particular statement of which
I have reserved to a separate discussion. As early as practicable,
that subject shall be submitted to the consideration of the com
mittee ; but however important it may appear, it is not expedi
ent with any arrangement to enter on it at present.
The next branch of the supplies is for defraying the expenses
of what is called the miscellaneous service, which' includes the
expenses of plantations, convicts, &c. For this there has been
already voted the sum of 378,000/. and if I proceed by the
estimates of the select committee, a further sum of 929,000/.
Will be found necessary. In' this sum 400,000/. is comprised for
making provision before hand for articles which it has been usual'
to pay in the first instance out of the civil list, and to propose-
afterwards to parliament to vote a sum sufficient to repay whatt
VOL, III. 1

114 MR. PITT'S [April 20,
has been so advanced. Under this statement, I have not in
cluded the provision of any sum which the important domestic-
happiness of the royal family, and the accustomed feelings ofthe
country have allowed as the usual portion with any ofthe female
branches. That provision will come belter perhaps hereafter
under a distinct and specific proposition. There is, however, a
sum of 600,000/. included, which is proposed to be lent to the
suffering Grenada merchants over and above the sums which I
before stated, and which are to be ultimately repaid; but I took
occasion to include them in my statement ofthe actual expendi
ture, because they are sums for which I find it necessary to pro
vide a temporary provision. (
The next article of supply is the annual provision for the dis
charge ofthe national debt of 200,000/.
To this i§ to be added, the usual provision made for the defi
ciency of the produce of the taxes upon land and malt, to the
amount of 3 50,000/.
1,054,000/. is to be provided to repay the bank for advances
upon the growing produce of the consolidated fond, and
1,370,000/. to discharge exchequer bills issued on the credit of
the consolidated fund for 1796, and paid also by the bank.
,1 shall propose a further provision of 900,000/. to meet the
deficiencies of land and malt not included in the estimate, but
which I think. may probably arise.
The next sum is 1,110,000/. voted in the committee of supply,
for the discharge of navy and exchequer bills, raised by an act of
last session, upon a vote of credit in 1796. The house will re
collect, that a provision was made for funding navy and exche
quer bills, and relieving the market of so much outstanding debt.
There was a party who did not choose to avail themselves of the
liberty of funding the bills they hold, and this sum was to make
good their demands.
The next sum is 2,177,000/. to make good 3,500,000/. charged-
by an act of last session on the growing produce of the consoli
dated fond, for the service of -the year 1796. 3,500,000/. was
the sum granted and thought applicable, but various circum-

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 115
stances had operated to its disappointment. Exchequer bills ad
vanced to the merchants of Grenada and St. Vincent's in con
sequence of the misfortunes in those colonies were paid in again ;
a loss was sustained in the product both ofthe new and old taxes,
by the stoppage of our distilleries, the defalcation of which sums
was not made good in the year, and to this was to be added the
payment of bounties to seamen, by the receivers of the customs
out of the produce of that year's revenue, which caused a defalca
tion in the produce of the customs ; and lastly, the bounties
upon the importation of corn. These circumstances of course
would not make the whole deficiencies good, and leave the con
solidated fund applicable to the service of 1797 5 and as I cannot
suppose that the committee would choose to have those sums
charged like a mortgage on tlie consolidated fund, I have pro
vided for its relief, and taken them as an article of supply from
the 5th of April 1796 to the 5th of April 1797.
There is only one other sum which remains to be stated, and
that is a vote of credit to the amount of 3,000,000/. As 500,000/.
has already been advanced to the emperor, I wish, if it meets
with the approbation of parliament, to be provided with a fur
ther sum of 2,500,000/. in order to make further advances, if
approved of, as the time and exigencies may require. I state
this in order to let the committee know the ultimate amount of
what sums it may be necessary to provide j. at the same time I
desire to have it understood, that I do not mean to pledge any
person to a final vote upon further advances to the emperor, un
less for a certain sum to a limited extent, which I shall state be
fore I sit down. Supposing this vote of credit to take place,
however, or not, I shall state that as part of the sum to a limited
extent, which I deem absolutely necessary at this critical period,
to allow the emperor to fulfill his engagements, together with
my reasons for it. I have now gone through the whole of the
supply, all the demands for which it was not possible to calcu
late before Christmas, and throughout my statements of them
I have acted on the report of the select committee. In so exten
sive a statement it is impossible for me to hope that I have pro-
1 2

llS MR. PITTS [April 36,
ceeded so clearly as not sometimes scarcely to have made myself
understood; but if any gentleman labours under any difficulty, I
shall only request him to follow me through the very able state
ments of that report, and I believe he will find our accounts tally '
so nearly in the estimated services and outstanding arrears, as to
shew the fullest confirmation of the accuracy of my statements.
For the sake of being more explicit, however, I shall sum up
all the heads of the supply in a recapitulation.
Navy  12,661,000!
Army  6,600,000
Army Extraordinaries  3,387,000
Treasury Bills and Army Warrants  2,088,000
Ordnance . »  1,623,000
Ordnance, Extraordinaries, and Barracks ... 737,000
Miscellaneous Service  929,000
Advances to the merchants of Grenada . ... 600,000s
Imperial Loan  500,000
Annual addition to Sinking Fund  200,000
Deficiency of Land and Malt  350,000
Re-payments to the Bank for advances on the Con
solidated Fund of 1795  1,054,000
Ditto 179.6  1,370,000
Further deficiencies of Land and Malt .... §00,000 '
To discharge Exchequer Bills issued on the credit of
the Consolidated Fund for 1796  1,110.000
Deficiencies of Consolidated Fund  2,177,000
Vote of Credit  2,500,000
38,786,000
Now, Sir, in regard to the ways and means for providing these
supplies, I must beg leave to state, that a sum a little less than
seven millions will cover the expense ; because a repayment of
some ofthe advances may take place in the course of the year ;
1,500,000/. arising from the taxes on the land and malt, will
be payable by October, and exchequer bills to the amount of
1,600,000/. will repay the treasury bills in the same sum paid at
the bank.

17<?7.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 117
My next duty, in the mean time, is to state with what ways
and means I am provided to meet the various sums of this large
amount. In order to do that, I shall begin with the land and
malt already voted, which according . to the usual calculation is
reckoned at 2,750,000/; the surplus of grants already voted,
420,000/. and the loan by voluntary subscription, 18,000,000/.
making a sum total of 21,170,000/. These are the only sums
already voted towards defraying the expenses of the year, but
there were other sums included in the original statement, of which
the first was a lottery. The lottery has varied in the general
statement, but taken according to the usual profit, it produces
somewhere about 200,000/. By exchequer bills in the former
statement, I took credit for 5,500,000/. which is the usual
amount of exchequer bills kept afloat : but I do not how think it
prudent to rely upon an issue of exchequer bills to that amount,
on account of the recent embarrassments in public credit. I shall
not reckon therefore on a larger issue than 3,000,000/. which is
less than the quantity now in circulation. I shall take the surplus
of the growing produce of the consolidated fund on a new esti
mate, on account of the charges on it,, and shall therefore take
credit but for a- moderate sum to be derived from that source.
This moderation does not arise from any diminution of the per
manent taxes, because the report of the select committee on fin
ance confirms my repeated assertions of the flourishing state of
the permanent revenue ; nor does it arise from any considerable
disappointment from the produce of new taxes, because, upon a
review of the new taxes levied in 1793, 1794, 179-5* and the
best estimates ofthe probable amount ofthe new taxes for 1796,
when any supposition is entertained that they will not be able in
their ultimate amount to maintain themselves at the produce at
. which they were computed, by setting them against the loans
since raised, and operating one against the other to a general
diminution, it will be found that they go near to counterbalance
any deficiency, and are nearly equal to the charge upon the con-
. solidated fund by providing the interest of the funded debt. But
it p to be recollected, that although in laying taxes I take credit
1 3

118 MR. PITT'S [April 26,
for an amount which cannot be so productive as I may have cal
culated, I have generally endeavoured, soon enough, to meet
the increased charge, and prevent an accumulation of unfunded
debt. I now stand with the knowledge of two quarters, freed
from a.mortgage of 1,075,000/. and higher in their computation
than I was justified to make them. As heavy as my computa
tion might be, however, I have the satisfaction to hope, the
total of the supply may recur before the taxes of next year,
though allowance must be taken for both considerations. Every
estimate is liable to uncertainty, but the average of the perma
nent taxes upon four years I find to be 13,919,000/. to which
adding duties of 1796, I shall have a total sum of 17,803,000/.
I am aware of the allowance of wine from the stock in hand, but
in looking at the produce ofthe sum total ofthe permanent taxes,
and looking forward to distant periods* when fresh sums will be
come due, I have a right to assume that to be the amount ; for
when we cease to take account of the stock on hand, the annual
consumption will replace the deficiency. The taxes imposed for
1797, were reckoned at 2,100,000/. Part of those taxes, it is
true, are yet under consideration, but many will take place at
an early period. I do not suppose, therefore, that I shall be tak>
ing the benefit of the estimate at too much, if upon the whole,
I value them at 1,500,000/. To this is to be added the further
amount of 600,000/.- which I suppose to be the nett profit ofthe
taxes which I am about to propose, and the advantage of which
we are likely to receive by the 5th of April next, so that the
whole yearly amount of the produce of the permanent revenue
may then be calculated at 1Q,QQ3,000/. Mr. Pitt then calcu
lated the various other sums, to meet the supplies from the ar
rears pf land and malt, the sale pf Dutch prizes, the retuHjs of
payment to the bank, the remaining money in hand upon the
corn bounties, &c. making a sum total of 42,870,000/.
But the loan which he had agreed for provisionally was
.18,000,000/. of which sum it was intended that 1,500,000/.
should be borrowed for the service of his Majesty's kingdom of
Ireland : the money to be raised at their charge, arid interest to

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 110
be provided for it by thatkingdom. It was in his contemplation
to propose to the committee on a future day to make further ad
vances to the emperor to the amount of 2,000,000/. distinctly
from the loan of 1,500,000/. which he should also propose on a
future day, as a specific proposition. In making his bargain for
the loan, therefore, he had done it in two ways, he had made a
bargain for 14,500,000/. certain, of which 13,000,000/. were
for British services to be provided for at the charge of Britain,
and 1,500,000/. for, and to be at the charge of, Ireland. He had
made a bargain conditionally for 3,500,000/ if the committee
should agree with him that it would be wise and proper to make
a further loan tothe emperor. In his opinion it might be done
with perfect safety without affecting the cash of the country,
without altering the exchanges of Europe, or in any degree in
juring our trade. If the emperor had an expenditure to make
in this country, we might surely assist him to all that amount,
such, for instance, as the half-yearly dividend which he had to
pay, amounting to 200,000/. and he certainly should make a
specific proposition to accommodate him by the advance of that
sum. On Monday next he should submit a proposition to the
committee to that effect. He now came to state the amount of
the bonus to the subscribers to the new ldan of 18,000,000/. He
could not say that the terms of that Joan were advantageous to the
public. They were, however, under all the circumstances, per
haps, more favourable than had been anticipated ; it was not fair
to argue from any depression that had happened since the bar
gain had been made. Though he had struggled hard for good
terms, yet he had not been unmindful of the situation of things,
and he thought he might with confidence^ rely on the equitable
nature of the terms to both sides. He had considered the price
of the funds on the day when the bargain was made as prices
likely tp be permanent ; he thought that the funds had found
their level, and that they were not likely to be.depressed further.
He had therefore proposed to consider the 3 per cents, consols
and reduced at 50, the 4 per cents, at 64, and the long annuity
at fourteen years. To this, however, the contractors did not
i 4 •"•*„

120

MR. PITT'S IAvml 2S,

seem inclined perfectly to agree ; they thought that the 3 per
cents, reduced, and the 4 per cents, were taken too high. Ac-,
cording to this statement the terms were as follows :
125 0 0 of 3 per cents, consols at 50 . . £-®l 10
50 O 0 of 3 per cents, reduced at 50 . . 25 0
20 0 0 of 4 per cents, at . . . 64 . . 12 16
0 6 6 long annuity at 14 years .... 4 11
Making a bonus to the lender of 4/. 17*- hut this,
though infinitely too high, was not all, for there
was also the discount which he had agreed to allow
at the rate of 4 per cent, instead of 3, which had ,,
been heretofore usual. To all persons, therefore,
who took advantage ef this discount, it was worth 2 8
£. 107 *-
To those who did not take advantage of the discount in paying
up in full, there was still an advantage by their being entitled to
the interest, though they paid their money only by instalments,
and this advantage was estimated to be nearly two pounds, so that
in every view of the bargain the bonus was in reality equal to six
pounds seventeen shillings. A great and improvident bonus for
the public to give, but which, he v/as sorry to say, undef
all the circumstances, he could not prevent. It was to be ob
served, however, that the six shillings and sixpence of long an
nuity was only to be given in case the loan should be 18,000,000/.
and there was to be a deduction of sixpence for each million, by
as many millions as it should be short of that amount. The per
manent interest on this loan was at the rate of six pounds seven
teen shillings and sixpence, per cent, per annum, to which,
adding for the charge of management and the redemption fund,
the interest would be eight pounds seven shillings and sixpence.
It would be necessary for him to move a resolution that exchei
quer bills, which had been recently taken at par upon a special
condition of being received on the first payment of the loan,
should be so received as money. It was a great accommodation
to the public; it had prevented these bills from being discredited,
and about 420,000/. had been received by government in this
way.

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. I2t
I have taken a view (continued Mr. Pitt) of the total amount
of the supplies which have been voted for the service of the year,
of the total amount of the ways and means which have been pro
vided for defraying the charges already incurred, of the total
amount of the produce of the taxes which have been imposed to
pay the interest of the capital debt, and stated the terms of the
loan which have been provisionally contracted for ; and in doing
this, I have endeavoured to make provision for an excess of navy
debt above the estimate, and for the extraordinaries of the army
which might occur in the course of the year 1 797. I have only
to mention one circumstance, in addition to those which I have
already enumerated, which is, that there were some unliquidated
claims of the East-India company, the amount of which were
unknown, but which somewhat increased our outstanding de
mands. I do not pretend that my statement is entirely free from
inaccuracy, error, or omission ; but in no one branch of it have
I intentionally concealed or mistated the real situation of the
country. There is another point which I found it necessary to men
tion as a probable addition to the public expense, but which I
reserve for discussion till it is brought before the house in a re
gular shape. From a variety of unforeseen and unexpected
circumstances, the last loan of eighteen millions, which has
been raised by voluntary subscription, has fallen to a rate of
discount which has been attended with considerable loss to the
subscribers. It will be matter of separate and distinct consi
deration on a future day, whether the house will allow that
loss entirely to rest upon the subscribers, who have so laudably
and honourably manifested their zeal and their patriotism in the
public cause, or whether some relief ought not to be granted to
them proportionate to the loss which they have sustained.
Of the loan which had been provisionally contracted for, there
was, he said, as he had stated before, a million and a half as
a loan for the payment of the sums already advanced to the
emperor ; a million and a half for Ireland, and two millions to
provide for such farther advances as the house might think fit.

m MR. PITT'S TAfril 2f3,
upon mature deliberation, to authorize the government to send
to his imperial majesty. There remained, therefore, just thir
teen millions, for which he had tp provide interest at the rate
of 8/. 7s. 6d. including the reduction fund, which amounted
to a sum of 959,000/. Besides this, there was a floating navy
debt of three millions andn half, which could, not be diminished
while the war continued, and which could only be paid off at
the return- of peace. But, as money would then be borrowed
on better terms than at present, he found it necessary to pro
vide only 5 per cent, interest for this debt, which would make
a Sum of 175,000/. There was also a deficiency arising from
some of tfie taxes which he had proposed before Christmas
having been abandoned, amounting to about 100,000, which
it was necessary for him now to supply. The whole interest,
therefore, which he had to provide for by additional imposts,'
amounted to 1,234,000/. There was no reason to suppose that
the taxes which had been imposed before Christmas would be
less productive than they had been estimated, and in forming
the present estimate of the sum wanted to pay the interest
of the increased capital debt, he took no credit for any surplus
which might arise from the produce of the permanent taxesT"
Under this view of the subject, Mr. Pitt proceeded to
state the outline of the sources of taxation which appeared
to be least objectionable for defraying the burthens which
we were under the necessity of meeting, and by meeting
which with manliness and courage we were most likely
to overcome the difficulties of our situation. And upon this
part of the subject he confessed feeling himself a good deal at a
loss, since there was no mode of taxation that he could propose
which was not liable to objections of one kind or other. It was
to be recollected, however, that our situation was one in which
there was only a choice of evils, and our submission was due to
those which, upon the whole, were the least pressing. In looking
atthedifferentbranchesof revenue, there was one source of taxation
which appeared to him to be preferable to any other, because the

1797 •] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 123
produce was easily raised, widely diffused, and which pressed
little upon any particular class, especially the lower orders of
society ; and it was the more eligible on this account, that the
-Tevenue arising from it, at the same time that it was ample,
was safely and expeditiously collected at a small expense.
What I allude to, said he, is the general branch of stamp
duties, which, though they are now more than double what
they were in the American war, have not undergone any con
siderable increase for some years. My object is to impose an
additional duty which will bear upon the great mass of
stamps, with the exception only of those which have been lately
increased, or of those which from their nature will not
admit of any augmentation. The class on which I shall pro
pose the greatest addition, is that which passes under the name
of consolidated stamp duties, by which is meant that class in
which stamps pf the same denomination are applied tp a great
number ef different instruments, such as deeds, copyholds,
adjudications, and all law instruments. I mean, however, that
law instruments should be exempted from the operation of the
tax, because,, though it certainly is proper as much as possible
to discourage litigation, yet, while it might tend to diminish
the number of frivolous law suits, it might also increase op
pressive costs, which, for the sake of justice, ought to be
avoided. Besides law instruments, I am of opinion that tlie
probates of wills for small sums should be included in the ex
ception. As a tax upon legacies has been lately imposed, I
propose that they also ,should be exempted in the present in
stance. Policies of insurance for the same reason have a fair
claim to exemption. Upon the great bulk of the stamps, how
ever, upon which I propose that the present tax should operate,
I think that the present duty should be doubled. This source of
revenue I exped to yield 320,000/.
The next object of taxation to which I look, is the transfer of
property. I do not mean that the tax on single skins, which
now pay a stamp duty of seven shillings, should be doubled ; I
only intend that the duty should be increased three shillings,

124 MR. PITTS [April 26,
that they should pay ten shillings instead of seven It must
have appeared, however, that the instruments by which validity
is given to any transaction, and to which property owes secu
rity, might fairly be made a test of contribution. I haye to
propose, therefore, not only an additional stamp duty upon each
skin, but a scale of duty proportioned to the consideration in
money which is transferred. This is only extending a principle
already recognized and adopted in the duty which is imposed
upon property sold by auction. That duty is sixpence per
pound upon real property, and tenpence per pound on all
personal property, disposed of in that way, and produces
100,000/ a year. Observing that that tax does not operate
against the disposal of property by auction, and calculating that
ten millions of property are annually transferred from one
hand to another, I compute that by imposing a duty of four-
pence per pound upon all private transfers, a sum will be
raised of at least 170,000/. per annum.
At present there is a stamp upon all deeds, but I understand
that authenticated copies of them, unstamped, are admitted. I
see no reason why the duty should not attach fo the copy as well
as to the original. It has been suggested to me, that a regu
lation of this kind would bring into the revenue 40,000/. per
annum. The fourth article which I mean te propose as a subject of
taxation, relates to tlie probates of wills ; all of which, except
those for sums under 300/. I shall move to pay a certain duty,
which may produce the sum of 40,000/.
The next subject I have to offer to the Committee, is on*
which will produce a great deal cf discussicn put pf this house.
It relates to a Certain species pf property well known in this
country ; for it will be the vehicle (and that not a verbal one)
of conveying to the different parts of the country what I am
now stating. When I consider the great prevalence of this
vehicle of general intelligence; when I consider the amazing
extent to which it has been carried; that the luxury of it has
been so very generally felt and practised, that the taste of th.

1797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 125
public rs not likely to be shaken by any trifling increase in the
price of an article sought after with such universal avidity; when
I consider also the immense profits produced by these articles of
luxury, which are of a nature that ought not to exempt them
from their share of general taxation, I conceive that the laying
of an additional duty on newspapers is a measure that cannot
be in any manner objectionable. This might be done without
any injury either to the editors or the authors of such publi
cations. The present duty is 2d. on each paper ; in addition to
which I shall propose a further tax of one penny halfpenny j
and even in that case considerable gains will be produced to the
proprietors of papers. I should conceive that the price to
customers ought not to be raised any higher than this additional
duty ; because on a former occasion, in consequence of an in
creased duty on paper, the price qf newspapers was raised far
beyond that proportion, and has continued so ever since ; there
fore I do not imagine the proprietors of them can now have any
equitable claim to an increase in their price. The sum produced
by this duty will amount to 114,000/.
The next thing I have to propose, is a modification of the
duties on advertisements published in newspapers. According
to the regulations that exist at present, there is no difference in
the duty upon an advertisement of three lines and that on one of
the greatest extent. I should propose to vary the present mode,
and according to the regulations which I shall offer, there may
be advertisements the duty on which shall amount only to some
shillings, while on others the duty shall rise up to some pounds
sterling. The estimated produce from this source will amount
to 20,000/.
The next duty I have to propose, is to arise from a regulation
ofthe stamps on attornies' certificates, by which certain frauds
that have hitherto been practised may be prevented. This will
produce the sum of 15,000/.
There is one more article of luxury on which I shall propose to
lay a tax, that is, all plate that shall be manufactured for the

126

MR. PITT'S [April 2d,

/A

purpose of ornamental use, which will produce the sum of
30,0001. All those taxes which I have just enumerated, seem to me
to press as lightly on the general bulk of the people as any I
could think of, and least of all to increase the national diffi
culties. There still remains one more to be added. I have endeavoured
to find one; which, although I confess it is not free from some
speculative and practical objections, will not however be. found
inconvenient to the public at large. It is a subject which has
often been thought of before this time ; which has been once
before this house, but was- withdrawn. This is a tax on car-
riages.of all sorts, and on goods of all kinds conveyed by car
riages which pass through turnpike-gates, where the' tax is to
operate by an increase ef the tolls. To this it will be right to
make some exemptions ; such as exemptions on all new tolls till
they shall have risen to a certain amount, general exceptions
provided for by general laws, and local exceptions in certain'
districts. The same exceptions that now prevail in tolls ought
also to prevail on the part of the public ; and 1 should propose
that the same dutymay be taken for the public, that is now paid
for tolls. I cannot , exactly say how much this will ' produce ;
but I know, that when it was brought forward here about fifteen
years ago, it was estimated at no less a sum than between 4 and
500,0001. I have had an opportunity of knowing the amount
of the tolls of the gates about the metropolis, which are not a
tenth part of those throughout the whole kingdom. By this
means I can in some manner ascertain the amount of the present
tax ; and I think it will produce between 4 and 500,0001. With
respect to the principle of this tax, it may be objected to on the
ground of its being a great hardship to lay a burden on passen-
• gers and the conveyance of goods ; but I hope when gentlemen
will consider how small a portion must fall to each individual,
that they will not look upon this as a grievance, but rather as a
manner of lightening the general burdens.
I have now stated every thing which I conceived material, in

17973 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 127
as concise a manner as I could ; and I return my thanks to the
committee for the indulgence they have shewn me during the
length of time 1 have tresspassed on their attention. I have no
other excuse to make, than that I am pleading the necessity of
dwelling on a subject which I did npt wish to bring forward im-
perfecdy. And I now submit this pleasing circumstance to the
consideration of the house, that in the midst of, difficulties, and
apparently surrounded by calamities, we have still been able to
find such ample resources, as those which have been stated to
them this day. I call upon them to reflect, that at the moment
when we are struggling in a great contest — while we are labour
ing under pressures as heavy as they are unexampled, we still see
the strength and powers which we possess ; and that, if we are
not to be alarmed at imaginary evils, if we are not to be dispirit
ed by events which are not so calamitous in themselves as they
have been conceived to be, we shall find the radical wealth and
the ample means of this country fully sufficient to support us in
every conjuncture of our affairs, and ultimately to restore us to
that situation from which we have been removed for a time, by
circumstances as extraordinary as they have been unavoidable.
Mr. Pitt concluded by moving resolutions founded on his state
ments. The resolutions, after undergoing some discussion, were severally passed.

May 26, 1797.
' Mr. Grey, in pursuance of the notice he had previously given, this day
brought forward his proposition for a Reform in Parliament, concluding his
jpeech with moving, for leave to bring in a bill to amend the representation
of the people in the House of Commons.
After the motion had been seconded by Mr. Erskine, Mr. Pitt rose :
Feeling, Sir, as I do, the danger with which the present' pro
position is attended, upon the grounds upon which it has been
supported, and in the circumstances in which it has been brought

12ft MR. PITT'S [May 2t5,
•forward, lam very desirous, as early as possible in the debate,
to state the reasons by which I am determined to give it my most
decided opposition. The honourable gentleman who introduced
the motion, began with disclaiming very distinctly, and) as far
as he went, very satisfactorily, all those abstract principles of im
prescriptible right, all those doctrines of the rights of man, on
which those without doors, who are most eager in their profes
sions of attachment to the cause which he now supports, rest the
propriety of their demand, and upon which alone they would be
contented with any species of parliamentary reform. The ho
nourable gentleman denies the truth of that principle which pre
scribes any particular form of government, as that which is es"
sential to freedom ; or that universal suffrage is necessary to civil
liberty ; or that it even must depend upon that light which the
revolution of France has let in upon the world, and from which.
however, he derives hopes of so much advantage to the general
happiness of mankind. But, in disclaiming these views of the
question, and in placing it upon the footing of the practical be
nefit it was calculated to produce, the honourable gentleman did
not state all the considerations by which the conduct of a wise
statesman was to be regulated, and the judgment of an upright
senator to be guided. The question is not merely, whether some
alteration might or might not be attended with advantage ; but it
is the degree of advantage which that alteration is likely to effect
in the shape in which it is introduced ; the mischief which may
be occasioned from not adopting the measure, and the chance, on
the other hand, of producing by the alteration an effect upon those
to whom you give way, veiy different from that which had induc
ed you to hazard the experiment. These are the considerations
which the subject ought to embrace, and the views upon which
impartial men must decide.
Before we adopt the conclusions of the right honourable gen
tleman, we have a right, it is even imposed upon us as a duty,.
to take into our view as a leading object, what probability there
is by encouraging the particular mode of attaining that union. ¦
or of effecting that separation of the friends of moderate reform* ,

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 129
and the determined enemies to the constitution, which they
conceive it calculated to produce ; we must consider tlie danger
of introducing an evil of a much greater magnitude than that
we are now desirous to repair ; and how far it is prudent to give
an opening for those principles which aim at nothing less than t
the total annihilation of the constitution. The learned gentle
man who seconded the motion said, that those who formerly
supported parliamentary reform had sown the seeds of that
eagerness for parliamentary reform, which was now displayed,
and of the prinpiples on which it was now pressed ; he thinks
that those, who have ever supported the cause of parliamentary re
form upon grounds of practical advantage, must not oppose those
who have nothing in common with them, but the name of reform,
making that the cover- for objects widely different, in order, to
support that pretence which they assume upon principles diame
trically opposite to those upon which the true friends to the
cause of reform ever proceeded. Will the honourable gentleman
who made, or the learned gentleman who seconded the motion,
say, that those men who contend, as an indispensable point, for
universal suffrage ; — that those who hold doctrines which go to
the extinction of every branch of the constitution, because they
think it convenient to avail themselves of the pretence of parlia
mentary reform, as the first step towards the attainment of their
pwn views, and as facilitating their progress ; — that those who,
though they condescended to take advantage ofthe co-operation
of those who support the cause of reform in this house, yet have
never applied tok parliament, and who would not even receive
as a boon, what they contend for as a right ; — can it seriously be
said, that such men as these have embarked in the cause, or
have proceeded on the principles of those, who upon far diffe
rent grounds, and for far different objects, have moved this
important question ? Will they say, that those men have
adopted the principles, or followed the course, of those who for
merly have agitated the cause of reform, who have avowedly bor
rowed their political creed from the doctrines of the Rights of
VOL. HI, -K

isa MR. PITT'S pify* 26*,
Man, from the Writings of Thomas Paine, from the monstrous
and detestable system of the French jacobins and affiliated -so
cieties, from that proad, shallow, and presumptuous philosophy,
which, pretending to Communicate new lights to mankind,
has carried theoretical absurdity higher than the wild imagi
nations of the most extravagant visionaries ever conceived, ancf
carried practical evil to an extent which no age or history has
equalled r Will it be said that those men pursued only that
practical advantage, which a reform upon principles consonant
to the British constitution was calculated to afford, who saw
without emotion the detestable theories of the jacobins deve
loped in the destructive ravage which marked their progress, and
their practical effects, in the bloody tragedies which were acted
on the theatre of France, and who still adhered to their system
of indefeasible right, when they saw such overwhelming proofs
of its theoretical falsehood, and of its baleful tendency ? WilJ
it be believed that those men are actuated by principles con
sonant to the spirit of the British constitution, who, with the ,
exception of the pretence of parliamentary reform, adopted all
the forms of French, political systems, who followed them
through all their consequences, who looked upon the. ravage
Which fhey spread through all laws, religion, and property,
without shrinking from their practical effect, and who deemed
thehorrors with which it was attended, as the triumphs of their
system ? Can we believe, that men who remained unmoved by the
dismal example which their principles had produced, whose preten
sions rose and fell with the success or the decline of jacobinism in
every part of the world, were ever actuated by a similarity of mo
tives and of objects, with those who prosecuted the cause of reform
as a practical advantage, and maintained it upon constitutional,
views ? The utmost point of difference, indeed, that ever sub
sisted between those who supported, and those who opposed the
question of reform, "previous to the French revolution, which
forms a nefr aera in politics, and in the history of the world, was
"union and concert in comparison with the views of those wha

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 131
maintained that question upon grounds of expediency, and those
who assert it as a matter of right.
The question then was, with those who contended for reform
on grounds of expediency, whether the means proposed were
calculated to infuse new vigour into the constitution ? The ob
ject with those who affect a parliamentary reform upon French
principles, is the shortest way to compass its utter destruction.
From the period when the new and alarming aera of the French
revolution broke in upon the world, and the doctrines which it
ushered into light laid hold of the minds of men, I found that
^he grounds upon which the question rested were essentially and
fundamentally altered. Whatever may have been my former
opinion, am I to be told that I am inconsistent, if I feel that it
is expedient to forego the advantage which any alteration may be
calculated to produce, rather than afford an inlet to principles
With which no compromise can be made ; rather than hazard
the utter annihilation of a system under which this country has
flourished in its prosperity; by which it has been supported in
its adversity, and by the energy and vigour of which it has been
•enabled to recover from the difficulties and distresses, with
•which it has had to contend ? In the warmth of argument upon
this subject, the honourable and learned gentleman has con-
¦ceived himself at liberty to assume a proposition, which was not
only unsupported by reasoning, but even contradicted by his
own statements. The learned gentleman assumed that it was
necessary to adopt the moderate reform proposed, in order to
separate those whom such a plan would satisfy from, thOse who
'would be satisfied with none ; but who, I contend, by means of
this, would only labour to attain the complete object of their
wishes in the annihilation of the constitution. Those men who
itreat parliament as an usurpation, and monarchy as an invasion
¦of the rights of man, would not receive a reform which was not
the recognition of tlieir right, and which they would consider
as vitiated if conveyed in any other shape. Though such men had
availed themselves of the aid of those who supported paiiiamen-
K 2

132 , MR. PITT'S [Ma* 26;
tary reform on other grounds, would they be contented with this
species of reform as an ultimate object ?
Rut does the honourable and learned gentleman mean to as
sume that those who are the friends of moderate reform, (and I
know not how such a wish has been expressed at all) must re-'
main confounded with those whom no reform will satisfy, un
less some measure like the present is adopted ? Where has such
a wish for moderate reform been expressed ? If those who are
even thought to entertain sentiments favourable to that cause,
have cherished them in silence, if they have abstained from
pressing them at a moment when they would have served only to
promote the views of those who wished to annihilate, not to
reform, is it to be apprehended that any ill effects will ensue,
Unless you adopt some expedient to distinguish the moderate
reformer from the desperate foe ? Yet this is the main argu
ment ofthe learned gentleman, which he has put into a thousand
different shapes. I do not believe, however, that the temper
of moderate reformers will lead them to make common cause
with the irreconcileable enemies of the constitution. If there
are really many who may be ranked as moderate reformers, it is
at least probable that they feel the force of the danger which I
have stated ; that they think it wiser to check their wishes than
to risk the inlet of jacobin principles, and the imprudence of
affording to the enemies of the constitution the means of accom
plishing its destruction. Has there been, however, any decisive ;,
manifestation of their desires, or is there reason to believe, that,
disappointed in their wishes, they will be immediately driven4
beyondthe bounds of duty to the constitution? If there is no
security that those, whose views have already pointed beyond
reform, Will be recalled to better sentiments, if there -are even
certain grounds to believe that they will merely employ any
reform that may be introduced, as a step towards realizing their'
own system, upon what pretence can tlie present measure be
held out as calculated to reconcile those men to the constitution?'
From the conduct of gentlemen on the other side, it is obvious
that they do not conceive any decisive manifestation of the wishes

1797-3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 133
of the people for a moderate reform being now introduced, to have
taken place. My reason for such an opinion is this : we have
seen that the gentlemen in opposition have not been deficient in
their efforts to procure every expression of the public concur
rence in the objects for which they have contended. From their
own account these efforts have not been unsuccessful ; but,
supposing that no efforts of theirs had been employed, and. that
to the spontaneous impulse of the pepple jthemselves are to
be ascribed the petitions which have been voted in different
quarters, to a degree indeed, in their opinion, to decide the
sense ofthe country to be in favour of an immediate peace, and
the removal of ministers, it follows, that those who have pre
sented such petitions have not felt, or the exertions of opposition
have not been able to excite, any expression of that opinion
they have so often urged, that no change of men, without a
change of system, would lead to any permanent good.
It does not appear then, that there is any call upon the house
to adopt a measure which, so far from being necessary to satisfy
men friendly to a moderate reform, they have not, in any shape,
"expressed a wish to obtain. Before the practical expediency of
this measure, then, comes to be discussed, the practical necessity
of such a measure must be established. In this proof, however,
the honourable and learned gentlemen have failed ; I need not,
therefore, go into the state of the country to refute the state
ments ofthe honourable gentlemen. Indeed, I must observe
that every thing urged upon this topic, was nothing more than
assertion. The calamities and difficulties under, which the
country labours, the war with France, and inroads upon the con
stitution, the profusion of public expenditure, were the topics
upon which they insisted, and which they said would have been
avoided if parliamentary reform had formerly been adopted. , I
boldly contend, however, that in the origin of the war, in the
efforts to an unparalleled extent which the novelty ofthe contest,
'and the nature ofthe enemy, forced us to exert; that in what
they call inroads, and which we contend were necessary bui
lt 3

134 - MR. PITT'S [Ma* 26*,
warks for the defence of the. constitution, the feelings ofthe
people went uniformly along with the proceedings of parliament.
I will venture to assert, without the fear of contradiction, that .
in no time when the tide of prosperity began to turn in favour of
this country, when the nation began to recover from the strug
gles and from the burdens ofthe American war, when, year after-
year, the sources of public wealth and individual happiness -Were
increasing and extending, had the functions of parliament been
more congenial to the feelings of the people, than in the painful
yet necessary struggles to which we were obliged to submit in the
present contest. That the nation has suffered, during the pro
gress of the war, many and serious calamities, I do not dispute;
calamities, however, much less severe in their effects than those
which have been undergone by countries acting upon a different
system. It has indeed been urged, and with no ordinary degree of per-,
. severance, that the voice of the nation is against the proceedings
of government : that, however, is more a matter of opinion
than of fact ; and every man will naturally judge of the credit
that ought to attach to such an assertion, from the sentiments
which are expressed in the circle of his own acquaintance, and
from his personal inquiries onthe subject. But I will undertake
to say, that at the present moment, amidst all the difficulties and
embarrassments, unavoidably occasioned by the vigorous prose
cution of hostilities, the system pursued by parliament in sup
port ofthe measures of government, is the system of thepepple;
and parliament at no period possessed in a more ample degree
the confidence of the country than it does now. [Here Mr. Fox
shewed some signs of dissent.] The honourable gentleman may
be disposed to controvert this opinion, but I am sure he cannot
maintain the contrary with more sincerity or more perfect
conviction, than I advance what I now assert. The right honour
able gentleman, the house will recollect, was accustomed to as
sert last session of parliament, with equal boldness and vehemence
as now, that the sense of the country was against the system of
ministers. Good God ! Where can the honourable gentleman

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 133
have lived ? In what remote corner of the country can he have
passed his time ? What great public question can he state, upon
which the public have not evinced a great degree of interest, as
great as that shewn upon any former occasion ? On the contrary,
if ever there was a period which we should select," as the one
in which the attention of the public was the most turned to pub
lic affairs, it was precisely that period in which the learned gen
tleman has described the public to have lost all interest in the
deliberations of parliament.
I know it is maintained that parliament does not represent tlie
great body of the nation, and that the result of general elections
gives no striking character or impressive feature pf the senti
ments pf tlie people : but I desire it may also be recollected,,
whether there are not many leading instances, and particular cir
cumstances attendant on general^ elections, that go strongly to
express the opinion entertained by the constituent body ; and,
taking up the consideration in that point of view, 1 do insist^
and am convinced the position cannot be objected to, that the
approbation given by those who had been members of the last
parliament, to the commencement and prosecution of the war,
were strong and powerfol recommendations in their favour at the
late general elections. I will for a moment, pursuing this argu- .
ment, request the house to take the parliamentary representa
tion as it has been stated and recommended by the honourable
gentleman*. I will desire the honourable gentleman himself to ,
look for an instant to his own statement of the proposed addi
tional representation of the counties, and then candidly decide,
whether he can argue that tlie sense of the people was not in a
great degree to be collected at general ejections ? It is submitted
jn that statement, to extend the number of county members
from ninety-two to one hundred and thirteen ; the augmentation,
therefore, did not consist of many : and does the honourable
gentleman intend to except the ninety- two former members by a
general proscription ? or will he pretend to say, that the system
f Mr. Grey.
K 4

130 MR. PITT'S [May 26*,
of counties, as it stands at present in point of representation,
goes for nothing ? Certainly he cannot undertake to advance
such an argument, and so evidently inconsistent with his own
plan of reform. If, therefore, the one hundred and thirteen
members proposed by the honourable gentleman to represent
the counties, would express the true sense of the people, it can-*
net be denied on the same grounds, that the ninety-two who,
were elected by their constituents, were in a very considerable
proportion the organs of the public opinion. The arguments
therefore adduced by the honourable gentleman go against his
own declaration, that the sense ofthe people was not tlie sense
of parliament ; and that sense had been fully manifested in fa
vour of the war at the general elections. Since, therefore, I
recollect the former declaration of the honourable gentleman at
the end ofthe last session of parliament, that parliament did not
• possess the confidence of the people, am I to be discouraged
now, after the general election, from saying that they actually; ,
did enjoy that confidence ? But that is' not the only statement
which I can rriSke in justification of this assertion, I will appeal
to the proceedings in great and»populous cities, as well as in the
city of London, in which the opinions of gentlemen on the other
side of the house, with respect to parliament not possessing the
, confidence of the people, were as strongly refuted, on a fair poll,
by a vast majority of the electors, as by the elections for the
counties to which he has referred. It consequently appears that
the honourable gentleman has not specific ground to proceed on ;
and that he has totally failed in the foundation of his assertion,
that parliament does not enjoy the public confidence. The ¦'
learned gentleman has in the fanciful flights of his eloquence,
pushed his objects farther than his honourable friend ; for he has
not only said, that parliament has lost the confidence of the peo
ple, but that the proceedings of parliament have no effect what
ever on the public mind.
The learned gentleman, however, wished to unite two classes
of persons very opposite in their pursuits. He desires to recon
cile those, who by the very nature of their principles are alto-

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 137
gether irreconcileable ; those whose political doctrines are known
to be inimical to legal government, and those who are distin
guished by the moderation of tlieir tenets. With respect to the
moderates, it could not be too minutely attended to by the house,
that they propose no plan of reform whatever ; that they prefer
no complaints ; that they set out with no petition on that subject ;
and is it proper or reasonable that the house should sponta
neously give what had not been even demanded ? With regard to
the other persons alluded to by the learned gentleman, the house,
by agreeing to what has been urged in their favour, would give
them not merely what they claim, but what they demand as an
absolute right, and what is in reality the first step to the accom
plishment of their real views. That the present moment should
be a time for the measure of reform appears rather inconsistent,
when it is admitted by tlie learned gentleman himself that radi
cal discontent is prevalent in the country, and when it is undeni
able, that the men who talk of liberty aim merely at licentious
ness, and set up the name of reform as a disguise to mask their
revolutionary projects, and as the first step to their acknowledged
system of innovation. Concessions to such men, at such a time,
would be impolitic, would be fatal, would be absurd. The house
also, by agreeing to the arguments of the learned gentleman,
would grant what could not be of any use to one set of men, and
what would be productive of great mischief to the other descrip
tion. Such concessions, I will maintain, are not warranted by the
sound maxims of philosophy, nor to be measured by the nume
rous examples drawn from the history ofthe world.
The honourable gentleman* has talked highly ofthe blessings
which are to result to mankind from the establishment of French
liberty ; and because new lights have appeared to set off the doc
trine of freedom, this house is therefore to alter their principles
of government, and to accommodate themselves to the new order
of things. The system of French liberty is represented as a new
light diffusing itself over all the world, and spreading in every
» Mr. Grey.

138 MR. PITT'S [May. 20,
region happiness and improvement. Good God ! is the house to
be told, after the benefits which have been derived from the revo
lution in this country, that other and more essential benefits are
to be added by adopting the principles of the French revolution ?
From such lights, however, I hope we shall ever protect this con
stitution, as against principles inconsistent with any government.
If we*are to be relieved from any evils under which we may at
present labour, by means of this new light, I for one beg leave
to 'enter my solemn protest against the idea. Tlie doctrines upon
which it is founded, are, as I have already said, false, shallow,
and presumptuous, more absurd than the most pestilent theories
that were ever engendered by the disordered imagination of man ;
more hostile to the real interests of mankind, to national prosper
rity, to individual happiness, to intellectual and moral improve*
ment, than any tyranny by which the human species was evej
afflicted. And, for this new luminary, shall we abandon the
polar star of the British constitution, by which we have been
led to happiness and glory, by which the country has support
ed every danger which it has been called upon to encounter^
and risen superior to every difficulty by which it has been
assailed ?
Rut, independent of these general grounds on which I have op
posed this motion, I have no difficulty in . stating that the particu
lar measure appears liable to so many objections, that in no cir7
cumstances could I have given it my assent. Indeed I could as
little concur in the plan of the honourable gentleman as in a pro
posal for universal suffrage : how near it approaches to that, sys
tem I shall not now discuss. The honourable gentleman, on a
former occasion, ha? said, that he would rather have universal
suffrage than no reform. The learned gentleman, however, dis
claims universal suffrage, when asserted as a matter of right. Cer
tainly, indeed, some people have reason to complain of the learn
ed gentleman who, in supporting a plan of reform on grounds
of practical advantage, refuses that universal suffrage to which
he has no objection on practical grounds, merely because it is
asked as a matter of right. He will, however, find it difficult to

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 139
reconcile that practical expedience with the new light of general
freedom which has so unexpectedly broken in upon the world.
The proposition, however, is neither more nor less than, with
the exception of one fifth, to abolish the whole system of the
representation of this country, as 'it has been formed by charter
or by parliamentary arrangement, as it has been moulded by time
and experience, as it has been blended with our manners and
customs, without regard to the rights or compensations, or to the
general effect of modifications. All these are to be swept away,
and a numerical scale of representation to be substituted in its
place ; the country is to be divided into districts, and every house
holder, paying taxes, is to vote ; thvfs a system would be intro
duced little short of universal suffrage. On what experience, on
What practice is this gigantic scale of numerical representation to
be introduced ? In former plans the variety of the modes of re
presentation was admitted to be proof, how much better time
and circumstances may mould and regulate representation than
any institutions founded on reasonings a priori, and how neces
sary it was to give way to the effects of such experience. It is
not the harsh uniformity of principles, each pushed to its extreme,
but the general complexion arising out of the various shades,
which forms the harmony of the representation, and the practi
cal excellence of the constitution, capable of improving itself
consistently with its fundamental principles. Who will say that
this beautiful variety may not have contributed to the advantage
of the whole ? That system was practical, and experience has
confirmed the excellence of it, but the present plan goes the
whole length of destroying all the 'existing representation, with
the exception only of the county members (why they alone are
excepted I am at a loss to conceive), and bringing all to one sys
tem. Are the gentlemen who propose this system aware of the
benefits resulting from a varied state of representation, and are
they ready at once to resign' them ?
It never was contended that the inequality of the representa
tion has been attended with any practical disadvantage, that the
Interest of Yorkshire was neglected because it sent only two m em-

140 MR. PITT'S [Mat. 26V
bers to parliament, or that Birmingham and Manchester expe
rienced any ill consequences from having no representatives.
How does it appear that universal suffrage is better than if the
right tovote be founded on numerical, or even alphabetical ar
rangement ? There is no practice, certainly no recognised prac
tice, for its basis. The experiment proposed is new, extensive,
overturning all the ancient system, and substituting something
in its stead without any theoretical advantage, or any practical re
commendation. In the mixed representation which now subsists,
the scot and lot elections are those which have been chiefly object
ed to, and the honourable gentleman opposite to me formerly
agreed with me in opinion, that burgage tenures and small corpo
rations were even less exceptionable than open burghs with small
qualifications. Yet this extension of small qualifications, from
which it has been a general complaint that much confusion, de
bauchery, and abuse at elections arose, forms the principal fea.
ture in the honourable gentleman's plan.
Upon these grounds, therefore, looking seriously at the situa
tion of the country, examining facts with attention, unless we
would seal our own dishonour, unless we would belie the testimo
ny of our constituents, we must dissent from the reasons on
which the necessity of this proposition is founded. We ought
to resist the specific plan which the honourable gentleman has
offered, unless we would renounce the tried system of our repre
sentation, for a plan at once highly exceptionable in theory, and
totally unsupported by experience.
The motion- was negatived ;
Ayes ------ 91
Noes  256

1797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 141

June 2, 1797.
Mr. Put moved the order ofthe day for taking into consideration his
Majesty's message relative to the Mutiny in the Fleet —
" GEORGE R.
" It is with the deepest concern his Majesty acquaints the House of
Commons, that the conduct of the crews of some of his ships now at the
Nore, in persisting in the most violent and treasonable acts of mutiny and
disobedience, notwithstanding the full extension to them of all the benefits
which had been accepted with gratitude by the rest of his Majesty's fleet,
and notwithstanding the repeated offers of his Majesty's gracious pardon, on
their returning to their duty, have compelled his Majesty to ca'l on all his
faithful subjects to give their utmost assistance in repressing such dangerous
and criminal proceedings. His Majesty has directed a copy of the procla
mation which he has issued for this purpose, to be laid before the House ;
and he cannot doubt that his parliament will adopt, with readiness and
decision, every measure which can tend, at this important conjuncture, to
provide for the public security. And his Majesty particularly recommends
it to the consideration of Parliament, to make more effectual provision for
the prevention and punishment of all traiterous attempts to excite sedition
and mutiny in his Majesty's' naval service ; or to withdraw any part of his
Majesty's forces, by sea or land, from their duty and allegiance to. him ;
and from that obedience and discipline which are so important to the pros
perity and safety of the British Empire. G. R."
The message being read, Mrt. Pitt spoke to the following effect : —
Important as the present occasion is, I feel that it will not be
necessary for me to detain the house with a long detail upon the
subject of the gracious communication from the throne, which
has now been read to us. By that communication we learn that
all the benefit of his Majesty's gracious favour, which restored
satisfaction to part of his Majesty's forces, was attended with every
mark of duty and gratitude by that part, and was extended to
the whole of his Majesty's fleet ; but that, nevertheless, there are
now at the Nore deluded persons who have persisted in disober
dience, and proceeded to open acts of mutiny and disorder,
although all the same benefits have been allowed to them ; the

H% MR. PrfP-S [Juke 2,
same liberal allowance which was agreed upon by parliament,
and his Majesty's most gracious pardon, have been offered to them
in the same generous manner as it was to those who have re
turned to their duty. We have the mortification now to learn
that mutiny is carried on to the most dangerous and criminal
excess, to such a length, that the persons concerned in it have
gone into open and undisguised hostility against his Majesty's
forces acting under orders and commands from regular authority."
Much as we must deplore such events, much as we must feel
them as an aggravation of the public difficulties with which we
have to contend, yet I am sure we all feel it to be the duty of the
house of commons to shew to its constituents, and to the world
at large, that there is no difficulty which they will not meet
with firmness and resolute decision ; that we will take mea
sures to extricate the country from its difficulties in x manner
that is worthy of the representatives of a great, a brave, a power
ful, and a free people. I am persuaded that, under our present
circumstances, we can have no hesitation in laying at the foot of
the throne an address of assurance, that we,will afford his Ma
jesty every effectual support in our power ; that we will counter
act, as far as we can, so fatal an example as has, by the most
consummate wickedness, been set to his Majesty's naval force 5
that we will shew that we feel a just indignation against a con
duct so unworthy of, so inconsistent with, the rrfanly and gene
rous character of British seamen ; that we feel resentment at so-
tmgrateful a return to the generosity of a liberal parliament, and
the mildness and benignity of an illustrious throne. I trust
that we shall reeollect what our duty is in such a conjuncture.
I trust too, that as these late proceedings are utterly repugnant
tp the real spirit of the British sailor, contrary to the conduct
which has established the glory ofthe British navy, and 'the
renown Of the British -nation, it will appear that it was not in
the hearts of British seamen that such mutinous principles ori
ginated. I trust that we shall shew also, that if there are
among us those who are enemies to tlie fundamental interests

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 14a
of this country, to its glqry, to its safety, and to its existence as
a nation, whose malignity is directed to the honour and even
existence of our navy, who carry on their diabolical artifice by
misrepresentation of facts, to pervert the dispositions and change
the principles ofthe seamen, by instilling into their jjiinds false
alarms and apprehensions, and prevail upon them to do acts
contrary to their instinct, and that too when they are called
upon to contend with an enemy, — I trust, I say, that if there be
among us such foes, they may be detected and dealt with as
they deserve. Our indignation should be more active against
fee seducers than the seduced and misguided.
Whether, according to the existing law against the open
attempts that we have seen made upon another branch of his
Majesty's service to shake its loyalty, but which, to the honour
of that body, remain^ unmoved, and I trust is immoveable, we
possess power enough to punish, as they deserve, such wicked -
offenders, may be a matter perhaps of doubt. I shall, however,
instantly proceed to that part of the recommendation in his
Majesty's message, and to state my ideas upon the law against
. persons who shall excite his Majesty's forces to mutiny or diso
bedience. It is not necessary for me to enter now into parti
culars upon that subject ; but I feel it my duty to declare, that
if the address which I shall propose shall meet, as I hope and
confidently trust it will, the unanimous sense ofthe house, I shall
immediately move for leave to bring in a bill for the better
prevention of the crime I have already stated. There is, I am
persuaded, in this house, but one sense of the great guilt of this
offence, of the notoriety of its practice, and of the danger
of its consequences ; in short, there exists every ground upon
which penal law can bev applied to any offence, viz. the mischief
of the act itself, and the frequency of its commission. The re
medy which I mean to propose for the consideration of parlia
ment, will, I trust, be sufficiently efficacious to attain its object,
without o'erstepping the moral guilt and real malignity of the
erime. While, however, we all feel it to be our duty to enter

144 MR. PITT'S [June 2,
on the consideration of such legislative provision, while parlia
ment is not wanting in its duty at such a crisis of public affairs,
I trust also that we shall not be disappointed in our expectation
of the spirit of the public collectively or individually ; that they
will not be wanting in their exertions in such a crisis ; that they
will be animated, collectively and individually, with a spirit that
will give energy and effect to their exertions ¦ that every man
who boasts, and is worthy ofthe name of an Englishman, will
stand forth in the metropolis, and in every part ofthe kingdom, >
to maintain the authority of the laws, and enforce obedience to*
them, to oppose and counteract the machinations of the disaf
fected, and to preserve a due principle of submission to legal
authority. I trus.t that all the inhabitants of the kingdom will
unite in one common defence against internal enemies, to
maintain the general security of the kingdom, by providing for
the local security of each particular district ; that 'we shall all
remember, that by so doing we shall give the fullest scope to his
Majesty's forces- against foreign enemies, and also the fullest
scope to the known valour and unshaken fidelity of the military
force of the kingdom against those who shall endeavour to dis- •
turb its internal tranquillity. Such are the principles which I
feel, and upon which I shall act for myself, and such are the
principles, and will be the conduct^ I hope, of eveiy man in
this house and out of it; such are the sentiments that are im
planted in us all ; such the feelings that are inherent in the
breast of every Englishman. I should insult the house by
shewing that I distrusted its character, and the character of the
country, if I said more, and I should have neglected my duty if
I had said less. I now move, Sir,
" That an humble address be presented to his Majesty to
return his Majesty the thanks of this house for his most gracious
message .-
" To express to his "Majesty the concern and indignation
which we must feel in common with his Majesty, at the heinous
and criminal conduct of the crews of some of his Majesty's ships,

ifo?.} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 145
notwithstanding the offer so repeatedly made to them of hie
Majesty's most gracious pardon, and . the proofs of the paternal
regard of his Majesty, and of the liberality of parliament, which
they have received in common with the rest of his Majesty's
' fleet. " To assure his Majesty, that we are ready and determined.
to afford to his Majesty our utmost assistance in repressing such
dangerous and criminal proceedings, and to adopt every measure
which can tend, at this Conjuncture, to provide for the public
security: with this view we shall proceed, without delay, in
pursuance ofthe recommendation of his Majesty, to Consider of
such further provision as it may be necessary to make, for the
more effectual prevention and punishment of all traitorous at
tempts to excite mutiny in any part of his Majesty's forces, or
to withdraw them from their duty and allegiance, and from that
obedience and discipline which are so important to the prosperity
and the safety ofthe British empire:
'* That we have the fullest reliance, that all his Majesty's
faithful subjedts, from sentiments of loyalty and attachment to
his Majesty j and a just anxiety for their deafest interests, will
be eager to manifest, at so important a crisis, a full determina
tion to contribute, on every occasion, their utmost exertions for
the support of legal- authority, the maintenance of peace and
. order, and the general protection and defence of his Majesty's
kingdoms." A general sentiment of unanimity appearing through the House,
Mr. Pitt, in his reply, declared,
That in expressing his anxiety for unanimity in Voting the
proposed address, he was influenced indeed by the most impor
tant considerations. He wished for such an unanimity as would
lay a just foundation for future prosperity, for one on which he
placed the most favourable augury, the unanimity of the nation
at large— an unanimity not in support of administration, but in
support ofthe constitution itself, and of all those laws by which it
vol. m. , x.

IA6 MR. PITT'S [ftmE 1,
was guarded. The country was called upon to be unanimous in
a contest which embraced every thing that was most valuable to
its dearest interests. Whatever difference qf opinion might
prevail in the minds of gentlemen on former points, there could
hot exist a shadow of doubt with respect to the present- ques
tion. It was now indispensably necessary for them to unite in
tone common cause 5 it was incumbent on them to consolidate
their efforts, to reconcile their different views, to concentrate
their individual exertions, and to give energy and vigour: to the
the laws, without which it was impossible there could be any
solid happiness. It was not merely by declarations that they were
bound to proceed, but by a spirit and promptitude of action, and
a firm resolution and readiness to support the execution of the
laws by military subordination and legal obedience. It became
their duty to give a resistless efficacy to that conduct through
every comer of the metropolis, and through every part of the
kingdom. By such measures they could alone disappoint tlie
dark and malignant efforts of4he enemy j and he was proud to
«ay that to so glorious an unanimity there was nothing that he
would not chearfully sacrifice. He therefore hoped that nothing
would in fact be found in the latter part of the address, that could
in the slightest degree tend to destroy the unanimity o£ the house
in agreeing to it.
When he came to consider the nature and the terms of It, he
was completely at a loss to find one word that could appear ob
jectionable. The house could not be suppose? to pledge themselves
particularly to agree to the bill which was about to be brought in.
They merely pledged themselves to this j that, in pursuance of
his Majesty's recommendation to parliament to make more effec
tual provision, for the purpose of strengthening the present laws
which related to military obedience and discipline, they would
consider of the propriety of those measures which might be
deemed necessary for that specific object. .The house, therefore,
in voting for the address, went no farther than to declare, that
tfjey would act in compliance with his Majesty's recommendation,
$mt did not preclude themselves from taking into their mature

1797.1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. Uf
consideration the nature of the bill, nor did they, by such a vote,
debar themselves from witholding their assent to any matter that
might appear objectionable in it. But though he was so parti-
ticularly anxious to secure unanimity in passing the address, he
did not, with a view of obtaining that desirable measure, wish to
conceal or protract the delivery of his sentiments on any part of
it. His conviction ofthe propriety ofthe bill was formed on the
ground ofthe greatest necessity, and strongly impressed with the
idea that it was absolutely requisite to give dispatch to the
operation of it, he should move, the moment the address was
carried, for leave to present the bill,-* and if it was then agreed
to, he should also propose the second reading of it to take
place the next day. He also thought it necessary to premise,
that the further discussion ofthe bill wouldbe carried on as spee
dily as possible.
An honourable gentleman,* who had spoken against the latter
part of the address, declared, that he reserved to himself the
liberty of opposing the bill. A declaration of that nature was by
no means necessary, because no gentleman could be supposed to
pledge himself to measures which he had in all instances the
freedom of discussing and disagreeing with. He would not un
dertake to convince the scruples of the honourable gentleman on
every point which was contained in the latter part ofthe address,
but he entertained an opinion that he was competent to do so on
some points which appeared peculiarly satisfactory to himself.
The provisions of the bill did not go beyond the necessity of
the case, and this statement he would Undertake in the most
direct and positive manner to support ; but if the honourable
gentleman meant, that it was requisite to prove the existence of
particular acts on board each of his Majesty's ships which were
then in a state of mutiny, he should freely declare that he would
undertake no such thing. He took the ground of proceeding
with the bill to be derived from a plain and fair opinion, on which
the public mind and parliament might be fully satisfied as in
* Mr. Hobhouse,
s. a

1*8 MR. PITT'S [June 2,
many other cases of equal notoriety. That the speeches of this*
or feat emissary of faction and general anarchy had' produced?
mutiny in particular ships, he would not pretend to say ;¦ but the
public opinion with respect to the disorganized state of these
ships, and the causes which had first produced the disobedience,
and continued to uphold it, was founded on grounds unhappily,
too notorious in all instances, too much felt in some cases, and
too strongly proved, but fortunately defeated in others. On
these grounds he should therefore propese the biU. He thought
it necessary, m. consequence of what had fallen from some gen
tlemen, to submit these candid statements- which decided- his,
conviction on the propriety of the measure, and' he begged pardon
of the house for having troubled them a seeond time, but he felt
from the great importance of the subject,, from the pressing,
exigence of the case, and from the present crisis of public affairs,
feat it was the duty of every man zealously to unite in a measure,. ,
which, by securing the obedience and discipline of his Majesty's
forces, preserved the country from the efforts of its domestic'
and foreign enemies..
The question on the address was put and agreed to tumine antraliccntt.
KTn. Pitt then rose again,- ,
To move, he said, for leave to bring in a bill for the better
prevention and punishment of all traitorous attempts to excite
sedition- and mutiny in his Majesty's service; or to withdraw any
part of his Majesty's forces- by sea or land from their duty and
allegiance to himi and- from that obedience and discipline which
are so important to the prosperity and the safety1 of the British
empire. He had already stated, he observed, that if any person
required substantial evidence of any individual malpractices tp
excite sedition and mutiny h> his, Majesty's service, he was not
at present in the possession of the power to produce it ; but he
trusted it would be enough for the satisfaction ofthe house to
authorise fee introduction of the bill, to state fee necessity on
general grounds. It would be enough, he conceived, to obtain
their sanction, and their approbation of the measu/es he was-

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 140
about to recommend, if the frequency, the malignity, and the
universality of seditious practices were so notorious, and in the
daily habit of coming to the knowledge of every person both iii
and out of that house, that no reasonable man could dissent from
his Majesty's declaration of the necessity to provide for security
in future. It might be more immediately his duty to state, as a coa-
-vincing proof of the existence of one active, uniform, and wide
extended plan of sedition to seduce his Majesty's forces from
their duty and allegiance, that the discontents did not originate
with any single individual, that they were not confined to one
corner of the kingdom, nor contracted in one -circle of complaint,
but that they had manifested themselves in different detached
parts, were working at the same time, and in different places on
the same principles, and branched out into so many fresh rami
fications of complaint, that no person could foresee where they
would end. Many, and various had been fee attempts to excite
this disaffection, by false, insidious, and calumniating means,
sometimes provoking rebellion by emissaries at secret hours,
sometimes by misrepresentations, and other artful means, and at
others by dispersing hand bills wherever opportunity presented
itself or any expectation of success in their pursuits could be
indulged, to detach fee soldiers also from their duty ; so that fee
engines of sedition had been no less busily and unremittingly
persevering on shore, where to the honoinr of the soldiery he
bad fee happiness to say, feeyhad failed in their effects, .than in
the navy where they had unfortunately prevailed. Here then,
he had an opportunity of observing, that gentlemen needed only
to connect the discontents on board the fieet with the other
species of sedition upon shore, to pronounce them to be the
operations of one fatal and too- well digested systems for that
they were not the spontaneous combinations of the seamen, that
they were not the effects of accident, nor the effusion of one
solitary and unconnected discontent, was demonstrated by fee
conformity of transactions at Newcastle, at Nottingham, at
Maidstone, at Canterbury, at Salisbury, and many other places,
where the same species of hand bills had been scattered and dif-
J.3

ISO MR. PITT'S [Jtws 2,
fused, accompanied by rumours echoed and re-echoed of fee
most false and scandalous nature, and where, in some unhappy
instances, a few deluded or ill-minded people had set the same
melancholy example. A more studied system could not offer
itself to the thought of any man j a more practicable plan of
treason to provoke a general rebellion could never be attempted
to be put in execution.
From such specimens therefore it was evident the sedition was
extensive enough to prove it to be systematic, and dangerbus(
enough to make precaution requisite. Could any person doubt
fee existence of some treacherous conspiracy ? Could any person
wish to have a proof of its existence when its existence had
already been attested by numerous instances of loyalty and fidelity
in the soldiery, who with honest and honourable indignation,
had not only been wise and resolute enough to repel it, but had
also voluntarily stepped forward in the most liberal and manly
manner to discover the offenders ? With this notoriety of a dis
graceful system to corrupt one service, where it had so nobly
been defeated, how could any man doubt of its insinuation and
its influence in another 9 — A quarter tod where such opinions and
such measures were the least congenial to the natural dispositions
of fee persons who professed them. The whole affair was of
that colour and description which proved it to be not of a native
growth, and left no hesitation in the mind of any thinking man
to determine. whence it was imported j but on fee contrary, itwas
so uniform and particular in its species, and so like every sample
of what they had witnessed in another country, feat there was
no doubt the propagators of it there had executed a previous
determination to transplant it into every soil that would receive
it. Could any man for a moment doubt, he again demanded,
that the same engines had been at work in this country to pro
duce disorder and rebellion, which had been elsewhere so fatally
effectual? Could any man doubt it with tlie knowledge of the
frustrated endeavours in the army, and the suspicion of the same
endeavours in the navy ? That knowledge and feat suspicion was,
in his opinion, all the proof the legislature could require. But

I797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 151
„ if that were deemed sufficient proof, and upon that evidence it
was thought ndt only prudent but absolutely necessary to confine
its operations, and, if possible, inflict a penalty on the offenders,
no man could doubt but its operations would have been confined
within some bounds of restriction long ago, if fee penal laws
were competent to recognize such machinations and punish the
delinquents. The boldness, the malignancy, the frequency of th^
offences, all tended to confute that proposition.
But he would put it to. the decision of every man who heard
him, Were fee laws, now in being, sufficient to deter men from
. the prosecution of their evil purposes ? That they had not deterred
. them was plain from the mutinous proceedings still existing j
. and as they did not deter them from pushing those proceedings
. further, it was a reasonable ground for fee presumption that the
laws in force were not sufficient. Look at fee statute laws, find
out their origin and examine their extent. Had- the statute law
ever endeavoured to search out every possible offence, and pro
vide for its prevention and its punishment ? Certainly not. The
statute laws of this country were not the result of an original
deliberative systematic code, but fee natural effects of the com
mission of crimes, arising from their frequency and heinousness,
and proportioning the penalties accordingly. They grew up from
, the offences which they afterwards controlled, and their character
and complexion distinguished them to be the produce of different
periods. What then would be the principle of any one's argu
ment who should contend, that, because no particular law nor
any particular penalty had been yet provided by the legislature,
none should be provided ? His argument would in such a case apply
just as much, if he were to contend that no law or punishment
should be in force against parricide, because, by referring to the
statute books, he might find, that there was a time' when no such
law or penalty existed. He rested the introduction of this bill,
therefore, upon fee general footing of common law ; and a.s the
offence exceeded the provision for subduing the ordinary species
of treason, and was in its nature of a particular and extraordi
nary description, he should act upon a principle pf fee common
^ 4

152 MR. PITT'S [JvistB 2,
law, in which a proof of the expediency to alter or extend a par
ticular law was given by this circumstance. Formerly, to entice
any of his Majesty's forces to desert from his service was only 3
misdemeanour j but soon after the accession of the family of Han
over to the throne of these dominions, that Jaw was revised and
altered, and any person found guilty pf feat offence, incurred an
additional penalty. Would any man pretend to say then, that a
person found guilty of enticing any of his Majesty's forces to
4esert, should incur a heavy penalty, and feat they who enticed
his forces, not to desert^ but to employ their arms in breach
pf their allegiance should go unpunished > Indisputably not!— >
And for that reason he had undertaken to provide such a remedy
as to him appeared most likely to prevail. He regretted feat the
offences were, so secret and so complex in their nature, that it
was impossible at present to define them, and under those cir
cumstances he was sorry to add, he could not propose any mea
sure so definite as he wished. In point of moral guilt, fee
persons who had been so artful and so active in their operations^
to seduce the forces frpm their allegiance, and excite them to
rebellion at so dangerous a crisis of fee public safety as the present,
were the worst traitors to society, and certainly deserved fee
highest and most exemplary punishment ; but on the ofeer hand,
as fee precise nature and extent could not be determined, he
thought the medium would be fee best and most serviceable way
to proceed against them.
Having sajd thus much, both by way pf proof of fee necessity
pf some restriction, and bis opinion of what that restriction ought
to be, he should now come to the description pf the remedy he
intended fo propqse. What he had to propose thep was, to treat
anj/ traitorous attempt to excite sedition and mutiny in his Ma
jesty's service, or to withdraw any part of his Majesty's forces by
sea or land from their duty and allegiance, as an aggravated
Species of rnisdemean our, leaving to fee discretion of the court
the power of inflicting not onh/ the penalties of fine and impri
sonment, as in other cases of misdemeanour, but, as circumstances.
rnight require, fee penalties of banishment and transportation also,

1797-3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 15*
This was a short statement ef the measures he meant to propose,
and wishing to be cautious how he contributed to extend the cri
minal laws of this country, he was willing to press his restriction
ofthe offences he had described, in this shape in preference to any
other. The penalties for such offences ceuld npt, in his opinion,
press too much, consistently with the future security and happi
ness 5 and in the mode he had suggested to the cpnsideration of
fee house, he hoped and trusted they would not be found to
press too little. He therefore moved for leave to bring in fee
bill. After some further discussion leave was granted, and the hill was brought
' In, read a first and second time, and ordered to he committed the following

November 10, 1797.
The order of the day heing rpad for the House to take into consideration
the papers, which had been laid before them by his Majesty's direction, re
lative to the late negociation at Lisle, and the address of the House of Lords be
ing also read, Mr. Dundas moved " that the House do concur with their
Lordships in that address.''
After Sir John Sinclair and Lord Temple had spoken, the former of whom
moved an amendment to the address,
Mr. Pitt rose, and delivered his sentiments as follows:
Sir— Having come to this house with fee firm persuasion, feat
there never existed an occasion, when the unanimous concur
rence of fee house might be more justly expected than on a pro
posal, to agree in fee sentiments contained in the address which
has been read, I must confess myself considerably disappointed.
In some degree, even by the speech of my noble relation, (much
as I rejoice in the testimony which he has given of his talents
and abilities,) and still more by tlie speech of the honourable ba
ronet, and by the amendment which he has moved. I cannot
agree wife the noble lord in the extent to which he has stated

154 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 10,
his sentiments, that we ought to rejoice feat peace was not made ;
much less, Sir, can I feel desirous to accept, on the part of my
self or my colleagues, either from my noble kinsman, or any
other person, fee approbation which he was pleased to express,
of the manner in which we have concluded fee negotiation.
We have not concluded the negotiation — the negociation has been
concluded by others ; we have not been suffered to continue it ;
our claim to merit, if we have any, our claim to fee approbation
of our country is, feat we persisted in every attempt to conduct
that negociation to a pacific termination, as long as our enemies
left us, not the prospect but the chance or possibility of doing so,
consistent wife our honour,, our dignity, and our safety. We lament
and deplore the disappointment of the sincere wishes which we
felt, and of the earnest endeavours which we employed j yet we
are far from suffering those - sentiments to induce us to adopt the
unmanly line of conduct that has been recommended by the ho
nourable baronet ; this is not the moment to dwell only on our
disappointment, to suppress our indignation, or to let our cou
rage, our constancy, and our determination, be buried in the ex
pressions of unmanly fear, or unavailing regret. Between these
two extremes; it is, that I trust our conduct is directed; and in
calling upon the house to join, in sentiments between those ex
tremes, I do trust, that if we cannot have the unanimous opinion,
we shall have the general and ready concurrence both ofthe house
and of the country.
Sir, before I trouble fee house, which I am not desirous of
doing at length, with a few points which I wish to recapitulate,
let me first call to your minds the general nature of the amend
ment which the honourable baronet has, under these circum
stances, thought fit to propose, and the general nature of the
observations by which he introduced it. He began with deploring
fee calamities of war, on the general topic, that all war is cala
mitous. Do I object to this sentiment? No: but is it our busi
ness at a moment when we feel that the continuance of feat war
is owing to the animosity, the implacable animosity of our ene-
myj to the inveterate and insatiable ambitien of the present fran»

1797] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 1S5
tic government of France, not ofthe people of France, as fee
honourable baronet unjustly stated it — is it our business at feat
moment to content ourselves with merely lamenting in com
mon-place terms the calamities of war, and forgetting that it is
part of fee duty which, as representatives of the people, we
owe to our government and our country, to state that the con
tinuance of those evils upon ourselves, and upon France too, is
fee fruit only of the conduct of the enemy ; that it is to be im
puted to them, and not to us ?
Sir, fee papers which were ordered to be laid on the table
have been in every gentleman's hand, and on fee materials
which they furnish we must be prepared to decide. Can
there be,a doubt, feat all the evils of war, whatever may be
their consequences, are to be imputed solely to his Majesty'*
enemies ? Is there any man here prepared to deny, that the
delay in every stage of fee negociation, and its final rupture,
are proved to be owing to the evasive conduct, the unwarrantable
pretensions, fee inordinate ambitien, and the implacable ani
mosity of fee enemy ? I will shortly state what are the points,
though it is hardly necessary that I should state them, for they
speak loudly for themselves, on which I would rest that propo-
. sition ; but if there is any man who doubts it, is it the honoura
ble baronet? Is it he who makes this amendment,, leaving out
every thing feat is honourable to the character of his own
country, and seeming to court some new complaisance on the
part of fee French directory ? — the honourable baronet, who,
as soon as he has stated the nature of his amendment, makes the~
first part of his speech a charge against his Majesty's ministers,
,for even having commenced fee negociation in the manner,
and under the circumstances in which they did commence it — •
who makes his next charge, their having persevered in it, when
violations of form and practice were insisted upon in the earliest
stage of it ? Does he discover that the French government,
whom we have accused with insincerity, have been sincere from
the beginning to the end of the negociation ? Or, after having
accused his Majesty'* ministers for commencing and persevering

159 MR. PITTS [Nov. 10,
in it, is the honourable baronet so afraid of being misconstrued
into an idea of animosity against the people of France, that he
snnst disguise the truth, must do injustice to the character and
cause of his own country, and leave unexplained the cause of
the continuance of this great contest ? Let us be prepared to
probe feat question to the bottom, to form our opinion upon it,
and tp render our conduct conformable to that opinion. This, I
'conceive, to he a manly conduct, and, especially at such a
moment, to be the indispensable duty of the house. But let
not the honourable baronet imagine there is any ground for
his apprehension, that by adopting fee language of fee address,
which ascribes the continuance of the war to the ambition of
the enemy, we shall declare a system of endless animosity
between the nations of Great Britain and France. I say directly
the contrary. He who scruples to declare, that in the present'
moment the government of France are acting as much in con
tradiction to the known wishes of the French nation, as to the
just pretensions and anxious wishes of the people of Great
Britain— he who scruples to declare them fee authors of this
calamity, deprives us of the consolatory hope which we are
inclined to cherish, of some future change of circumstances
more favourable to our wishes.
It is a melancholy spectacle, indeed, to see in any country1,
and on fee ruin of any pretence of liberty however nominal,
shallow, or.ljelusiye, a system of tyranny erected, the most
galling, fee most horrible, the most undisguised in all its parts
and attributes that has stained the page of history, or disgraced
the annals of the world; but it would be much more unfortu
nate, if when we see thai fee same cause carries desolation
through France, which extends disquiet and fermentation
through Europe, it would be worse, indeed, if we attributed
to the nation of France that, which is to be attributed only to
the unwarranted and usurped authority which involves them in
misery, and would, if unresisted, involve Europe with them in
one common ruin and destruction. Do we state this to be ani
mosity on the part ofthe people of France ? Do we state this

1797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. »5?
in order to raise up an implacable spirit of animosity against that
country ? Where is one word to that effect in the declaration to
tfeieh fee honourable gentleman has alluded ? He complains
much of this declaration, because it tends to perpetuate animo
sity between two nations which one day or other must be at
peace — God grant that day may be soon ! But what does that
declaration express upon tlie subject? Does it express, that
because the present existing government of France has acted as
it has acted, we forego the wish or renounce the hope that some
new situation may lead to happier consequences ? On the con
trary, his Majesty's language is distinctly this: " While this
determination continues to prevail on the part ©f his enemies,
his Majesty's earnest wishes and endeavours to restore peace
to his subjects must be fruitless; but his sentiments remain
unaltered } he looks with anxious expectation to fee moment
when the government of France may shew a temper and spirit
in any degree corresponding wife his own." I- wish to know
whether words can be found in the English language which
more expressly state the contrary sentiment to that which the
honourable baronet imputes ; they not only disclaim animosity
.against fee people of France in consequence of the condnct of its
rulers, but do not go fee length of declaring, that after all this
provocation, even with the present rulers, all treaty is imprac
ticable. Whether it is probable, that acting on tlie principles
upon which they have acquired their power, and while that
power continues, they will listen to any system of moderation or
justice at home or abroad, it is not now necessary to. discuss ;
but for one, I desire to express my cordial concurrence in the
sentiment, so pointedly expressed in that passage of the decla-
ration, in which his Majesty, notwithstanding all the provocation
he has received, and even after, fee recent successes, which, by
fee blessing of Providence, have attended his arms, declares his
readiness to adhere to the same moderate. terms and principles
which he proposed at the time of our greatest difficulties, and
to conclude peace on that ground, if it can now be obtained,
even wife this very government. .

15S MR. PITT'S [Nov. 10,
I am sensible, that while I am endeavouring to vindicate his
Majesty's servants against fee charges of the honourable baronet,
which are sufficiently, however, refuted by the early part of his
own speech, I am incurring, in some degree, the censure of
the noble lord to whom I before alluded According to his
principles and opinions, and of some few others in this country,
it is matter of charge against us that we even harbour in our
minds at this moment, a wish to conclude peace upon fee terms
which we think admissible with the present rulers of France,
I am not one of those who can or will join in that sentiment.
I have no'difficulty in repeating what I stated before, feat in
their present spirit, after what they have said, and still more,
after what they have done, I can entertain little hope of so de
sirable an event. I have no hesitation in avowing, for it would
be idleness and hypocrisy to conceal it, that for the sake of
mankind in general, and to gratify those sentiments which can
never be eradicated from the human heart, I should see with
pleasure and satisfaction the termination of a government whose
conduct, and whose origin is such as we have seen that of the
government of France : but that is not the object — that ought
not to be the principle of fee war, whatever wish I may enter
tain in my own heart ; and whatever opinion I may think it
fair or manly to avow, I have no difficulty in stating, feat vioi
lent and odious as is the character of feat government, I verily
believe, in the present state of Europe, that if we are not
wanting to ourselves, if, by the blessing of Providence, our per
severance, and our resources, should enable us to make peace
with France upon terms in which we taint not our character, in
which we do not abandon the sources of our wealth, the means
of our strength, the defence of what we already possess : if
we maintain our equal pretensions, and assert that rank which
we are entitled to hold among nations — the moment peace can
be obtained on such terms, be the form of government in
France what it may, peace is desirable, peace is then anxiously
to be sought. But unless it is attained on such terms, there is
no extremity of war, there is no extremity of honourable con-

1737-3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 139
test, that is not preferable to the name and pretence of peace,
which must be in reality a disgraceful capitulation, a base, an
abject surrender of every thing feat constitutes the pride, fee
safety, and happiness of England.
These, Sir, are fee sentiments of my mind on this leading
point, and with these sentiments I shape my conduct between
fee contending opinions of the noble lord and of the honourable
baronet. But there is one observation of the honourable ba
ronet on which I must now more particularly remark. He has
discovered that we state the directory of France to have been all
along insincere, and yet take merit for having commenced a
negotiation, which we ought never to have commenced without
being persuaded of their sincerity. This supposed contradiction
requires but a few words to explain it. 1 believe that those who
constitute the present government of France never- were sincere
for a moment in fee negotiation -. from all fee information I
have obtained, and from every conjecture I could form, I for
one never was so duped as to believe them sincere ;v but I 63d
believe, and I thought I knew, feat there was a general prevail
ing wish for peace, and a predominant sense of its necessity
growing and confirming itself in France, and founded on fee
most obvious and most pressing motives. I did see a spirk of
reviving moderation gradually gaining ground, and opening a
way to fee happiest alterations in the general system of feat
country : I did believe that fee violence of that portion of the
executive government, which, by the late strange revolution of
France, unhappily for France itself and for the world, has
gained the ascendancy, would have been restrained within
some bounds; feat ambition must give way to reason; that
even phrenzy itself must be controlled and governed by ne
cessity. These were the hopes and expectations I entertained.
1 did, notwithstanding, feel, that even from fee outset, and in
every step of feat negotiation, those who happily had not yet
the full power to cut it short in the beginning, who dared net
trust the public eye wife fee whole -of their designs, -who could

iSri MR. PITT'S [Nov. M,
hot avow all their principles, unfortunately, nevertheless, diet
retain from the beginning poWer enough to control those who
had a better disposition ; to mix in every part of the negociation,
which they ceroid not then abruptly break off, whatever could
impede, embarrass, and perplex^ in order to throw uppn us, if
possible, fee odium of its failure.
Sir, the system pf France is explained by the very objections
that are made against our conduct. The violent party couM
not, as I have stated, at once break off fee treaty on their party
but they wished to drive England to the rupture ; they had not
strength enough to reject all negociation, but they had strength
enough to mix in every step those degradations and insults,
those inconsistent and unwarranted pretensions iij points even of
subordinate importance, which reduced ministers to feat opinion
which I have described -t but which they decided in a way that
has exposed them to the censure of the honourable baronet.
They chose rather, to incur the blame of sacrificing punctilios
(at some times essential) rather than afford the enemy an op
portunity of evading this plain question — Is there any ground/
and, if any, what, upon which you are ready to conclude'
peace ? To that point it was our duty to drive them j we have;
driven them to feat point j they would tell us no terms, how
ever exorbitant and unwarrantable, upon which they would bff
ieady to make peace. What would have been the honourable
baronet's expedient to avoid this embarrassment ? It would
have been, as he has this day informed us, an address which he'
had thought of moving in the last session, and which, indeed, J
should have been less surprised had he moved, than if the house
had concurred in it ; he would have moved that no projet
should be given in till fee enemy were prepared to present a contre
projet. If it was a great misfortune feat that address was not
moved, I am afraid some of the guilt belongs to me, because
the honourable baronet did suggest such an idea, and I did with
great sincerity and frankness tell him, that if he was really "a
friend to peace, there was no motion he coflld make so little?

1797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 161
calculated to promote that object ; and I did prevail upon the
honourable baronet to give up the intention. If I am right in
fee supposition I have stated; if I am right in thinking that our
great object was to press France to feis point, and to put the
question — if you have any terms to offer, what are they ?— was
there any one way by which we could make it so difficult for
them to retain any pretence of a desire of peace, as to speak out
ourselves, and call upon them either for agreement, or for modi
fication, or for some ofeer plan in their turn ? By not adopting
the honourable baronet's plan, we have put the question beyond
dispute, whether peace was attainable at last, and whether oui
advances would or would not be met on the part of France >; and
I shall, to the latest hour of my life, rejoice that we were fortu
nate enough to place feis question in the light which defies the
powers (ff misrepresentation, in which no man can attempt to
perplex it, and in which it presents itself this day for the decision
of the house and of the nation, and calls upon every individual
who has at stake the public happiness and his own, to determine
for himself, whether this is or is not a crisis which requires his
best exertions in fee defence of his country.
To shew which, I shall now proceed, notwithstanding the re
proach which has been thrown on our line of conduct, to shew the
system even of obstinate forbearance, with which we endeavoured
to overcome preliminary difficulties, the determined resolution on
our part to overlook all minor obstacles, and to come to the real
essence of discussion upon the terms of peace. To shew this, it is
not necessary to do more than to call to tlie recollection ofthe houss
fee. leading parts of fee declaration of his Majesty. I mean to
leave that part of the subject also without the possibility of doubt,
or difference of opinion. It is certainly true, that, even previous
to any of fee circumstances that related to the preliminary forms of
the negociation, the prior conduct of France had offered to any
government that was not sincerely and most anxiously bent upon
peace, sufficient ground for fee continuance of hostilities ; it is true
that, in the former negotiation at Paris, Lord Malmesbury was
finally sent away, not upon a question of terms of peace, not upon
VOL. m. M

162 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 10,
a question of the cession of European or colonial possessions, but
upon the haughty demand of a previous preliminary, which should
give up every thing on the part ofthe allies, and which should leave
them afterwards every thing to ask, or rather to require. It is true
it closed in nearly the same insulting manner as fee second mis
sion ; it is true, too, feat, subsequent to that period, in fee pre
liminaries concluded between the emperor and France, it was
agreed to invite the allies of each party to a congress, which,
however, was never carried into execution. It was under these
circumstances that his Majesty, in fee earnest desire of availing.
himself of feat spirit of moderation which had begun to shew it
self in France, determined to renew those proposals which had
been before slighted and rejected ; butwhen this step was taken,
what was the conduct of those who have gained the ascendancy
in France ? On the first application to know on what ground
they were disposed to negotiate, wantonly, as will be shewn by
the sequel, and for no purpose but to prevent even the opening-
of the conferences, they insisted upon a mode of negotiation very -
contrary to general usage and convenience, contrary to the mode
in which they had terminated war with any of the belligerent
powers, and directly contrary to any mode which they themselves
afterwards persisted in following in this very negotiation with us.
They began by saying, they would receive no proposals for pre
liminaries, but that conferences should be held for fee purpose of
concluding at once a definitive treaty.
His Majesty's answer was, that it was his desire to adopt- that
mode only -which was most likely to accelerate the object in view,
and the powers of his plenipotentiary would apply to either ob
ject, either preliminary or definitive. They appeared content with
his answer : but what was the next step ? In the simple form of
granting a passport for the minister, at the moment they were
•paying they preferred a definitive peace, because it was the most
expeditious; in feat very passport, which in all former times has
only described the character of the minister, without entering in
to any thing relating to the terms or mode of negotiating, they
insert a condition relative to his powers, and feat inconsistent;

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 163
with what his Majesty had explained to be the nature of the
powers he had intended to give, and with which they had appa
rently been satisfied; feey-made it a passport not for a minister
coming to conclude peace generally, but applicable only to a de
finitive and separate peace.
This proceeding was in itself liable to the most obvious objec
tion ; but it is more important, as an instance to shew how, in
fee simplest part of the transaction, fee untractable spirit of France
discovered itself; it throws light upon the subsequent part of the
transaction, and shews the inconsistencies and contradictions of
their successive pretensions. As to the condition then made in
fee passport for fee first time, feat fee negotiation should be for
a separate peace, his Majesty declared that he had no choice be
tween a definitive and a preliminary treaty, but as to a separate
peace, his honour and good faith, with regard to his ally the
queen of Portugal, would not permit it : he therefore stated his
unalterable determination to agree to no treaty in which Portugal
should not be included, expressing at fee same time, his
readiness that France should treat on the part of Holland and
Spain. On this occasion, the good faith of this country prevailed ; the
system of violence and despotism was npt then ripe, and there
fore his Majesty's demand to treat for Portugal was acquiesced in
by the directory. They, at the same time, undertook to, treat on
their part for their allies, Holland and Spain, as well as for
.1 themselves, though in the subsequent course of the negotiation
they pretended to be without sufficient power to treat for either.
I must here entreat the attention ofthe house to the next cir
cumstance which occurred. When fee firmness of his Majesty,
his anxious and sincere desire to terminate tlie horrors of war,
and his uniform moderation, overcame the violence, and defeated
the designs of the members of the executive government of
France, they had recourse to another expedient — the most absurd,
as well as the most unjustifiable : they adverted to the rupture of
die former negotiation, as if that rupture was to be imputed to
his Majesty j and this insinuation was accompanied with a per
il 3

\U MR. PITT'S [Nov. 10f
sonal reflection upon the minister who was sent by his Majesty
to treat on fee part of this country. His Majesty, looking anx
iously as he did to the conclusion of peace, disdained to reply
otherwise, than by observing, feat feis was not a fit topic to be
agitated at the moment of renewing a negotiation, and that the
circumstances of the transaction were well enough known to Eu
rope and to the world. And the result of this 'negotiation has
confirmed what the former had sufficiently proved, that his Ma
jesty could not have selected, in the ample field of talents which
his dominions furnish, any person better qualified to do justice
to his sincere and benevolent desire, to promote the restoration
pf peace, and his firm and unalterable determination to maintain,
the dignity and honour of his kingdoms.
In spite of these obstacles, and others more minute, the British
plenipotentiary at length arrived at Lisle ; the full powers were
transmitted to the respective governments, and were found un
exceptionable, though the supposed defect of these full powers
is, three months after, alleged as a cause for the rupture of the
negotiation ; and what is more remarkable, it did so happen,
feat the French foil powers were, on the face of them, much
more limited than ours, for they only enabled the commissioners
of the directory to act according'to the instructions they were to
receive from time to time. On this point it is not necessary now
to dwell, but I desire the house to treasure it in their memory,! h
when we come to the question of pretence for the rupture of the
negotiation. Then, Sir, I come to the point in which we have incurred the -
censure of the honourable baronet, for delivering in on our part a
projet. To his opinion, I do not subscribe, for the reasons that
I stated before. But can there be a stronger proof of his Majesty's
Sincerity, than his Waving so many points important in themselves
rather than suffer the negotiation to be broken off? What was
our situation ? We were to treat with a government, that had
in fee outset expressed, that they would treat only definitively;
and from every part of their conduct which preceded the meeting
of pur plenipetentiary, and their commissioners, we might hav?

1797.] ' PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 163
expected that they would have been prepared to answer our pro
jet almost in twenty-four hours after it was delivered. We stood
with respect to France in feis predicament — we had nothing to
ask of them, tlie question oniy was, hpw much we were f p give
of feat which fee valeur pf his Majesty's arms had acquired from
them, and from their allies. In feis situation, surely, we might
have expected, feat, before we offered the price of peace, they
would at least have condescended to say what were fee sacrifices
which they expected us to make. But, Sir, in feis situation,
What species of projet was it that was presented by his Majesty's -
minister ? A projet fee most distinct, fee most particular, fee
most conciliatory and moderate, that ever constituted the first
words spoken by any negotiator j ahd yet of this projet what
have we heard in fee language ofthe French government ? What
have we seen dispersed through all Europe by that press in
France which knows no sentiments but what Erertch policy dic
tates ? What have we seen dispersed by feat English press which
knows no other use of -English liberty, but servilely to retail and
transcribe French opinions ? We have been told, feat it was a
projet feat refused to embrace the terms of negotiation. Gen
tlemen have read the papers — how does that fact 'stand ? In fee
'original projet we agreed to give up the conquests we had made
from France and her allies, wife certain exceptions. For those'
exceptions a blank was left, in order to ascertain whether France)
was desirous that fee exceptions should be divided between her
and her allies, or whether she continued to insist upon a com
plete compensation, and left England to look for compensation
Only to her allies. France, zealous as she pretends to be for hef
allies, had no difficulty in authorizing her ministers to declare,
feat she must retain every thing for herself. This blank was then
filled up, and itwas then distinctly stated, how little, out of
what we had, we demanded to keep ; in one sense, it remains
a blank still, we did not attempt to preclude France from any
other mode of filling it up ; but while we stated the utmost ex
tent of our own views, we left open to full explanation what
ever points the government of France could desire. We called
H»

16S MR. PITT'S [Nav. 10,
upon them, and repeatedly solicited feem, to state something as
to tlie nature of the terms which they proposed, if they objected
to ours. It was thus left open to modification, alteration, or
concession : but this is not the place, this is not the time, in
which I am to discuss, whether those terms, in all given cir
cumstances, or in the circumstances of that moment, were or
were not fee ultimate terms upon which peace ought to be
accepted or rejected; if it were once brought to the point when
an ultimatum could be judged of, I will not argue whether
some great concession might not have been made wife the
certainty of peace, or whether the terms proposed constituted
an offer of peace upon more favourable grounds for the enemy
than his Majesty's ministers could justify. I argue not the one
question or fee other ; it would be inconsistent with the public
interest and our duty, that we should here state or discuss it i
all that I have to discuss, is, whether the terms, upon the face
of them, appear honourable, open, frank, distinct, sincere*
and a pledge of moderation ; and I leave it to the good sense of
fee house, whether there can exist a difference, of opinion upon
this point.
Sir, what was it we offered to renounce to France ? In one
word, all that we had taken from them. What did this consist
of? — the valuable, and almost, under all circumstances, the im
pregnable island of Martinique, various other West-India pos
sessions, St. Lucia, Tobago, the French part of St. Domingo,
the settlements of Pondicherry and Chandernagore, all the
French factories and means of trade in the East Indies, and the
islands of Saint Pierre and Miquelon ; and for what were these
renunciations to be made ? For peace, and for peace only.
And to whom ? To a nation which had obtained from his Ma
jesty's dominions in Europe nothing in the course of the war,
which had never met our fleets but to add to the catalogue of our
victories, and to swell the melancholy lists of their own cap
tures and defeats. — To a power which had never separately met
the arms of this country by land, but to carry the glory and
prowess of fee British name to a higher pitch, and to a country

l>97-i PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. \6f
\vhose commerce is junheard of, whose navy is annihilate'tit
whose distress, confessed by themselves, (however it may b£
attempted to be dissembled by their panegyrists in this or any
other country,) is acknowledged by the sighs and groans ofthe
people of France, and proved by the expostulations and remon
strances occasioned by the violent measures of its executive go
vernment. — Such was fee situation in which we stood1 — such the
situation of the enemy when we offered to make these impor
tant concessions, as fee price of peace. What was the situation
of fee allies of France ? From Spain, who, from the moment
she had deserted our cause and enlisted on fee part of fee enemy,
Only added to fee number of our conquests, and to her own in
delible disgrace, we made claim of one island, fee island of
Trinidad, a claim not resting on the mere naked title of pos-
'¦session, to counterbalance the general European aggrandizement
of France, but as fee price of something that we had to give by
making good the title to fee Spanish part of Saint Domingo>
which Spain had ceded without right, and which cession could
not be made without our guarantee. To Holland, having in our
hands the whole means of their commerce, the whole source of
Hheir wealth, we offered to return almost all that was valuables
'-and lucrative to them, in the mere consideration of commerce^
we desired in return to keep what to them, in a pecuniary view,
would be only a burthen, in a political view worse than useless^
because they had not the means to keep it; what, had we
granted it, would have been a sacrifice, not to them> but to
• France ; what would in future have enabled her to carry on hef
plan of subjugation against the Eastern possessions of Holland
itself, as well as against those of Great Britain. All that we
asked, was, not indemnification for what we had suffered, but
the means of preserving our own possessions, ahd the strength of
our naval empire ; we did feis at a time when our enemy was
feeling fee-pressure of war— and who looks at the question of
peace without some regard to the relative situation of the country
with which you are contending ? Look then at their trade ;
m 4

1(38 MR. PUT'S [Nov. %
lpok at feejr means ; look at the posture of their affairs ; look
at what we hold; and at the means we have- of defending our-
selyesj, and; our enemy of resisting us, and tell me, whether this
offer was or was not a proof of sincerity, and a pledge of mo
deration. Sir, I should be ashamed of arguing it, I, confess;, I
am apprehensive we may have gone too far in the first, proposals,
We;niade, rather than shew any backwardness in fee negocia
tion; but it is unnecessary to, argue this point, i
Our proposal was received and. allowed by the French pleni-*,
potentiaries, and transmitted for the consideration of fee Di-t
rectory ; months had: elapsed in sending couriers weekly and-
daily from Paris^to Lisle, and from Lisle to Paris ; they taught us
to expect^ from time to time, a consideration of this -subject,
and an explicit answer to our projet . But fee first attempt of
the Directory to negotiate, after having, received our projet, is
worthy of remark; they required, that , we, whom they had
summoned to a definitive treaty, should, stop- and discuss preli-.
minary points, which were to be settled without knowing whe
ther, when we had agreed to them all*, we had advanced one
inch ; we were to discuss, whether his Majesty would renounce
fee title of King of France, a harmless feather, at most, in fee
crown of England; we were to discuss, whether we would
restore those ships taken at Toulon, the acquisition of valour, .-
and which ,we were entitled upon every ground to hold ; we
were to discuss, whether we would renounce the mortgage-
which we might-possess on the Netherlands, and which engaged
much of fee honourable baronet's attention: but it does s«
happen, that what the honourable baronet considered as so im
portant, was of no importance at all. For a mortgage on the,
Netherlands, we have none, and consequently we have none.
to renounce; therefore, upon that condition, which they had
no right to ask, and we had no means of granting, we told
feem the true state ofthe case, and feat it was not worth talking
about. The next point which occurred, is of a nature which is dif
ficult to dwell upon without indignation ; we were waiting the

1797 -1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 169
fulfilment of a promise which had been made repeatedly, of
delivering to our ambassador a contre-projet, when they who
had desired us to come for the purpose of concluding a definitive
treaty, propose feat we should subscribe as a sine qua, non pre
liminary, that we were ready, in the first instance, to consent
to give up all feat we had taken, and then to hear what they
had farther to ask. Is it possible to suppose that such a thing
could be listened to by any country feat was not prepared to
prostrate itself at Hie feet of France, and in that abject posture;
to adore its conqueror, to solicit new insults, to submit to de
mands still more degrading and ignominious, and to cancel at
once the honour of the British name ? His Majesty had no
hesitation in refusing to comply with such insolent and unwar
rantable demands : Here again the house will see, that the spirit
of tlie violent part of fee French government which had fee
insolence to advance feis proposition, had not acquired power
and strength in feat state of fee negociation to adhere to it;
his Majesty's explanations and remonstrances for a time prevailed,
and an interval ensued, in which we had a hope, that we were
advancing to a pacification. His Majesty's refusal of this de
mand was received by fee French plenipotentiaries with as
surances of a pacific disposition, was transmitted to their go
vernment, and was seconded by a continued and repeated repe
tition of promises, that a conlre-projet should be presented,
pretending that they were under tlie necessity of sending to their
allies an account of what passed ; and that they were endea
vouring to prevail on feem to accede to proposals for putting an
end to the calamities of war — to terminate the calamities of that
war into which those allies were forced, in which they were
retained by France alone, and in which they purchased nothing
but sacrifices to France, and misery to themselves. We were
fold, indeed, in a conference that followed, that they had
obtained an answer, but that not being sufficiently satisfactory,
itwas sent back to be considered. This continued, during the
whole period, until that dreadful catastrophe .of the 4th of
September: even after feat event, the same pretence was held

170 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 10
out; they peremptorily promised the contre-projet in four
days ; the same pacific professions were renewed, and our mi
nister was assured, that the change of circumstances in France
should not be a bar to the pacification. Such was the uniform
language of tlie plenipotentiaries in the name of the govern
ment — how it is proved by their actions I have already stated to'
the house. After this series of professions, what was the first1
step taken to go on with the negociation in this spirit of con
ciliation ? Sir, the first step was to renew, as his Majesty's
declaration has well stated, in a shape still more offensive, the
former inadmissible and rejected demand ; the rejection ol"
which had been acquiesced in by themselves two months before,
and during all which time, we had been impatiently waiting for
the performance of their promises. That demand was the same
feat I have already stated in- substance, that Lord Malmesbury
should explain to them, not only his powers, but also his in
structions ; and they asked not for the formal extent of his
power, which\ would give solidity to what he might conclude in
fee king's name, but they asked an irrevocable pledge, that he
would consent to give up all that we had taken from them and
from their allies, without knowing how much more they had
afterwards to ask. It is true they endeavoured to convince
Lord Malmesbury, that although an avowal of his instructions
was demanded, it would never be required that he should act
upon it, for there was a . great difference between knowing the
extent of the powers of a minister, and insisting upon their ex
ercise. , And here I would ask the honourable baronet, whether
he thinks, if, in the first instance, we had given up all to the
French plenipotentiaries, they would have given it all back
again to us ? SupposeT was ambassador from the French Direc
tory, and the honourable baronet was ambassador from Great
Britain, and I were to say to him, " Will you give up all you
have gained ? it would only be a handsome thing in you, as an
Englishman, and no ungenerous use shall be made of it;''
would the honourable baronet expect me, as a French ambas
sador, to say, " I am instructed, from the good nature of the

\797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 171
Directory, to say, you have acted handsomely, and I now re
turn you what you have so generously given ?" Should we not
be called children and drivellers, if we could act in this manner ?
and indeed the French government could be nothing but children
and drivellers, if they could suppose that we should have acceded
to such a proposal. — But they are bound, it seems, by sacred
treaties; they are bound by immutable laws; they are sworn
when they make peace, to return every thing to their allies ; and
who shall require of France for the safety of Europe, to depart
from its own pretensions to honour and independence ?
If any -person can really suppose that this country could have
agreed to such a proposition, or that such a negotiation was
likely to lead to a good end, all I can say is, that wife such a
man I will not argue. I leave others to imagine what was likely
to have been tlie end of a negotiation, in which it was to hare
been settled as a preliminary, that you were to give up all tkat
you have gained ; and when, on the side of your enemy, not a
word was said of what he had to propose afterwards. They
demand of your ambassador to shew to them not only his powers,
but also his instructions, before they explain a word of theirs;
and they tell you too, that you are never to expect to hear what
their powers are, until you shall be ready to concede every thing
which the Directory may think fit to require. This is certainly
the substance of what they propose; and they tell you also, that
they are to carry on fee negotiation from the instructions which
their plenipotentiaries are to receive from time to time from them.
You are to have no power to instruct your ambassador ; you are
to shew to the enemy at once all you have in view, and they will
only tell you from time to time, as to them shall seem meet, what
demands they shall make.
It was thus it was attempted, on the part of the French, to
commence the negociation. In July, this demand was made to
Lord Malmesbury. He stated, that his powers were ample. In
answer to this, they went no farther than to say, that if he had
no such power as what they required, he should send to England
to obtain it, Tp which he replied, that he had not, nor should

17$ MR. PITT'S [Nov. lQt
he have it if he sent. In this they acquiesce, and attempt to
amuse us for two month's. At the end of that time, fee pleni
potentiaries say to Lord Malmesbury, not what they said before,
send to England for power to accede to proposals which you have
already rejected ; but go to England yourself for such powers, in
order to obtain peace.
Such was the winding up of the negociation ; such was the
way in which the prospect of peace has been disappointed by the
conduct of France ; and I must look upon the dismissal of Lord
Malmesbury as the last Stage of the negociation, because fee
undisguised insult by which it was pretended to be kept up for
ten days after Lord Malmesbury was sent away, was really below
comment. You (France) send him to ask for those powers which
'you were told he had not, and in the refusal of which, you acqui
esced : yoft have asked, as a preliminary, that which is monstrous
and exorbitant ; that preliminary you were told would not be
complied wife, and yet the performance of that preliminary you
made the" sine qua non condition of his return ! Such was the
last step by which the French government has shewn that it
had- feeling enough left to think it necessary to search for some
pretext to colour its proceedings ; but they are such proceedings
that no pretext or artifice can cover them, as will appear
more particularly from . tlie papers officially communicated to
fee house.
But here the subject does not rest : if we look to the whole*
complexion of this transaction, the duplicity, fee arrogance,
and violence which has appeared in the course ofthe negociation,
if we take from thence our opinion of its general result, we shall
be justified in our conclusion, not that the people of France,,
not that the whole government of France, but that that part of
the government which had too much influence, and has now
the whole ascendancy, never was sincere; was determined to
accept of no terms but such as would make it neither durable
nor safe, such as could only be accepted by this country by
a surrender of all its interests, and by a sacrifice of every
pretension to the character of a great, a powerful, or an inde*
pendent nation.

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 173
This, Sir, is inference no longer, you have their own open
avowal; you have it stated in the subsequent declaration of
France itself, that it is not against your commerce, that it is not
against your wealth, it is not against your possessions in the east,-
or colonies in the west, it is not against even the source of your
maritime greatness, it is not against any of the appendages of
your empire, but against the very essence of your liberty, against
fee foundation of your independence, against the citadel of your
happiness, against your constitution itself, that their hostilities
are directed. They have themselves announced and proclaimed
fee proposition, that what they mean to bring with their in
vading army is the genius of their liberty: I desire no other
word to express the subversion of the British constitution, —
and the substitution of the most malignant and fatal contrast, —
and the annihilation of British liberty, and the obliteration of
every thing that has rendered you a great, a flourishing, and a
happy people.
This is what is at issue; for this are we to declare ourselves ia
a manner that deprecates the rage which our enemy will not
- dissemble, and which will be little moved by our entreaty.
Under such circumstances are we ashamed or afraid to declare,
in a firm and manly tone, our resolution to defend ourselves, or
to speak the language of truth with the energy that belongs to
Englishmen united in such a cause ? Sir, I do not scruple for one
to say, if I knew nothing by which I could state to myself a
probability of tlie contest terminating in our favour, I would
maintain, feat the contest wife its worst chances is preferable to
an acquiescence in such demands.
If I could look at this as a dry question of prudence, if I could
calculate it upon the mere grounds of interest, I would say, if
we love that degree of national power which is necessary for the
independence of the country, and its safety; if we regard do
mestic tranquillity, if we look at individual enjoyment, from
the highest to the meanest among us, there is not a man, whose
stake is so great in the country, that he ought to hesitate a moment
in sacrificing any portion of it to oppose the violence of fee

17-4 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 10,
enemy; nor is there, I trust, a man in this happy and free na
tion, whose stake is so small, that would not be ready to sacrifice
his life in the same cause. If we look at it with a view to safety,
this would be our conduct ; but if we look at it upon the prin
ciple of true honour, of the character which we have to support,
of the example which we have to set to the other nations of
Europe, if we view rightly the lot in which Providence has
placed us, and the contrast between ourselves and all the other
countries in Europe, gratitude to that Providence should inspire
us to make every effort in such a cause. There may be danger,
but on the one side there is danger accompanied with honour ;
on the other side, there is danger with indelible shame and dis
grace ; upon such an alternative, Englishmen will not hesitate.
I wish to disguise no part of my sentiments upon the grounds
on which J put the issue of the contest. I ask, whether up to
the principles 1 have stated, we are prepared to act ? Having done
so, my opinion is not altered, my hopes however are animated
from the reflection that the means of our safety are in our own
hands; for there never was a period when we had more to en
courage us; in spite of heavy burdens, the radical strength of the
nation never shewed itself more conspicuous; its revenue never
exhibited greater proofs ofthe wealth of the country; the same
objects, which constitute the blessings we have to fight for,
furnish us with the means of continuing them. But it is not
upon that point I rest it; there is one great resource, which I .
trast will never abandon us, and which has shone forth in the
English character, by which we have preserved our existence and
fame, as a nation, which I trust we shall be determined never
to abandon under any extremity, but shall join hand and heart
in the solemn pledge that is proposed to us, and declare to his
Majesty, that we know great exertions are wanting, that we
are prepared to make them, and at all events determined to stand
or fall by the laws, liberties, and religion of our country.
The amendment was afterwards withdrawn, and the original address
Passed nimiae contradicenie.

17Q7.J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 175
November 24, 1797.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply,
Ma. Pitt rose and addressed the committee to the following purport: —
In pursuance of the intimation which I gave upon a former
day, I now rise to state to the committee fee general outline of
the measures which are proposed as the foundations for raising
the supplies, and for meeting the exigencies of the ensuing year.
'As the principle of that part of the intended plan to which I am
most desirous to direct the attention of tlie committee is new in
die financial operations of this country, at least for more than a
century; as it is a principle so important in its nature, and so ex
tensive in its consequences, it is not my intention to call for any
decision upon its merit in the present stage of the business. All
feat I now mean to state to the committee, I wish to be consi
dered merely as a notice, and ageneral explanation of apian that
is afterwards to be brought forward. Any minute consideration
and particular dispositions I shall omit till the subject is submitted
to a detailed discussion, and content myself with a general view
of fee object proposed, and a general outline of the mode by
which it is to be carried into execution. After the facts which
are already in your possession, after the unanimous resolution
which tlie two houses of parliament have passed upon the subject,
it would be unnecessary for me to dwell upon the causes which
demand your exertions, and the nature of the objects, which the
supplies you are called upon to provide are intended to secure.
The question which you have to consider is of no less importance
than by what means you are to provide for the expenses which
will be necessary to enable you successfully to resist the avowed
intentions of an arrogant foe, to destroy your liberties and con
stitution, to cut off the sources of your wealth, your prosperity,
your independence, and your glory. In pledging .ourselves to
withstand these haughty pretensions, and to defend the blessings
we enjoy, we have not acted lightly. In expressing our determina*
lipRto support fee honour and the interest of fee country at eve*

176 MR. PITTS , [Nov. 24,
ry hazard, we spoke equally the dictates of sober reflection, and
the language of indignant feeling; our judgment was a con
cord with our ardour ; we declared ourselves ready to meet fee
difficulty in its fullest extent, and prepared to support our resolu
tion at every extremity. I wish to be understood, therefore,
feat it is upon these principles, that the plan which I am now
about to explain is founded. I Snow that it is upon these princi
ples, that parliament and the nation have pledged themselves to
act ; by these principles, and these only, the measures which'
are to be submitted to your consideration have been framed, '
and it is upon these principles that their propriety ought to be
judged. Before I proceed to enter more, largely into the principles of
the plan which it is my intention to propose, I shall briefly take
a- view of the amount of the expenses for which it 'will be ne
cessary to provide. These I shall state under the usual heads,:
avoiding iri the present stage of the business, all minute details,
and considering only the amount of the supplies which will be
required. I shall begin, then, with the sums that will be necessary for
the service of the navy. The coriimittee will recollect that
there has already been voted for this branch, the sum of
12,530,000/. It will likewise be recollected, that the estimates
of the present year have been made out in a new form, intended,
with greater correctness than formerly, to present a full view of
all the expense that would be necessary. Instead of the former
allowance of 41. per month, which was found to be inadequate,
fee full expense has been taken into view. Even in their present
shape the estimates are not to be considered as so accurate as to
exclude the possibility of any eicess. AH that can be said is,
that they are now more likely than at any former period to include
the whole of the expense which this branch of the service may
demand. The amount voted, then, for feis article is 12,5X9,000^.
It is unnecessary here to specify the different heads of this branch ;
all that is requisite is, to point out the whole of the expense
which we are called upon to devise measures to supply. Besides,

1797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 177
this sum, there will be a sum of navy debt, owing to the excess
of last year above the estimate, amounting * to three millions.
This, however, will form no part of the expense for which it
will now be requisite to make a cash provision. It will only be
requisite to provide a sum equal to the interest ; and in the pre
sent state of fee funds, that provision cannot be calculated at
less than 250,000/. By a regulation adopted last year to prevent
the depreciation of navy and exchequer bills, by providing that
the period of payment should never be very distant from their
date, there will be on their monthly issue of 500,000/. a floating
debt of 1,500,000/. to be funded, arising out of the excess of the
estimates for fee year 1797- There will likewise be a similar
sum of 1,500,000/. falling due in the year 1799; but for these
no cash provision will be necessary, nor are they included in the
supplies to be raised. The sum of 12,539,000/ is all that enters
into the account of the supplies under this branch for the ensu
ing year.
The expense for the army, excepting only barracks and extra
ordinaries, has likewise been voted. What the amount of the ,
extraordinaries will be, it is impossible to ascertain ; but so far as
can be collected from the bills already drawn, this article may be
taken at four millions besides fee vote of credit, making an ex
cess of about 1,300,000/. at the end, of the year.
In judging of the probable amount of the demands of
feis branch of service for the year 1798, it will be seen that there
is no prospect of increase at home ; that the situation of the war
abroad promises to admit of a diminution ; and that from the'ge-
nerd state of affairs, many of the causes, which .contributed
to swell fee extraordinaries of the army, cease to operate. The
amount of the extraordinaries, then, may be taken at 2,500,000/.
The charge on the head of barracks may be estimated at 400,000/.
The expense of guards and garrisons, and the general articles in
cluded under this head, has already been voted, 'amounting
to 10,112,000/. The ordnance may be taken at 1,300,000/.;
and the various articles of miscellaneous service may be rated at
673,000/. There remain only two" articles to be noticed, the
ypir. ?«. - if

178 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,
sum of 200,000/. appropriated for the reduction of the national
debt, and about 680,000/. arising from deficiencies of grants.
From fee whole, then, the committee will see, that the sum
now to be provided for amounts to about twenty-five millions and
a half. Supposing the statements under the head of the army and
navy to be correct, fee expense on these branches will be reduc?
,ed to the extent of two millions and a half; and,- including the_
reduction on the head of extraordinaries, the saying upon fee
whole will ajmoyni to the sum of 6,700,000/.
Notwithstanding this diminution, however, there still remains
the sum of twenty-five millions and a half to be provided for,
as the supplies of the ensuing year. Before I proceed to explain
the general plan proposed for covering this expense, I shall state
the usual articles which compose part of the annual ways and
means. These are the growing produce of the consolidated fund, and
the land and malt. The former I shall take, along with the pro
fit on the lottery, at so very small a sum as 700,000/. making
with the land and malt the sum of three millions and a half.
There still remains, however, the sum of twenty-two millions to
be supplied by some ofeer means. The mode by which this sum
is to be raised, forms the great object of consideration. The re
duction upon fee head of naval and military establishment does,
indeed, amount to a very considerable saying. The committee
will see with satisfaction that their expenses admit of a diminution
below what was necessary in some former periods of the war.
Pleasing as this circumstance certainly isi I will not disguise,
however, that after fee sums which have already been added to
the national debt, after the burdens which have already been
imposed, to raise so large a sum as twenty-two millions, is no
light matter. But the difficulty is to be examined with a firm
determination to exert every effort which the magnitude of the
' occasion demands, with a firm determination to produce the
means by which the struggle is to be supported with vigour and
with effect, so long as these continue to be fee only course by
.which we can maintain our national honour, and secure pur na,.

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 179
fional safety. After this decided resolution, to render these sup
plies effective, the next point to be considered is the mode by
which the expense is to be defrayed, without danger to the sources
of our prosperity, and without inconvenience to those who may
be called upon to contribute.
Before I enter into fee statement of that plan by which it is
proposed to meet a considerable part of this expense in a manner
rather new in our more recent financial operations, I shall men
tion one of fee intended supplies which, under tlie restriction
with which it will be guarded, I am disposed to think will be
viewed as altogether unexceptionable. After what 1 have heard
from some gentlemen on former discussions, I cannot expect
that the measure to which I allude will encounter no opposition j
but I am pretty confident feat though not universal, the appro
bation which it will receive will be very general. This- measure,
however, is considerably different from that which some gentle
men conceive. I propose feat towards the supplies the bank shall
make an advance to government. The sum which it is in con
templation feus to raise is' neither very large in itself, nor will it
be made in such a shape as to deprive the bank of the certainty
of repayment within a short period, if it shall be considered ex
pedient to take off the restriction on payment in cash.. That
under all the circumstances of our present situation that restric
tion is necessary, I cannot entertain a doubt. I confess, feat,
while fee war continues in its present shape, it is my decided
opinion that it would be unwise to discontinue that restriction.
If, however, any unforeseen events of the war, or if -the return
of peace should supersede that necessity, the advances, which it
is ^proposed should be made' by fee bank, are to be upon such
conditions as shall render them available for the payment of their
debt. If such a measure should meet wife the approbation of
parliament, the bank will consent to make the advance. If it is
clear, then, that in the present situation of affairs fee restriction
is prudent, if, under the conditions intended to be stipulated with
regard to fee manner of repayment, this advance will be attended
with advantage te fee public service without any detriment tp the
1ST «

180 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,
bank, I am at a loss to discover why we should decline an accom
modation which, in the present circumstances of the country,
would prove so material a relief. The sum of three millions,
then, the bank will agree to advance pn exchequer bills, to be
repaid at a short period, capable of being prolonged if nothing
occur to render that extension inexpedient, but stih claimable
by the bank if any change in their affairs shall render it ne
cessary. There now remains to be supplied the sum of nineteen mil-? ;
lions. According to the received system of our financial opera
tions, the natural and ordinary mode of providing this sum would .
be by a loan. I know that, notwithstanding the magnitude of
the debt already accumulated, resources are still left for supplying
the public service by this means. I admit the funding system, ,
which has been so long the established mode of supplying the
public wants, though I cannot but regret the extent to which it
has been carried, is not yet exhausted. If we look, however,
at the general diffusion of wealth, and the great accumulation of
capital; above all, if we consider the hopes which the enemy
have conceived of wearying us out by the embarrassments of the
funding system, we shall find that the true mode of preparing
ourselves to maintain the contest with effect and success, is to re
duce the advantages which the funding system js calculated tq
afford within due limits, and to prevent the depreciation of our
national securities. We ought to consider how far the effort?
we shall exert to preserve the blessings we enjoy, will enable us
to transmit the inheritance to posterity unincumbered with those
burdens which would cripple their vigour, which would prevent
them from asserting that rank in thelscale of nations which their
ancestors so long and so gloriously maintained. It is in this point
of view that the subject ought to be considered. Whatever ob
jections might have been fairly urged against the funding system
in its origin, no man can suppose that, after the form and shape.
which it has given to our financial affairs, after the heavy bur
dens which it has left behind it, we can now. recur to the no
tion of raising in one year the whole of fee supplies which a scale

i797-] Parliamentary speeches. iai
i
of expense, so extensive as ours, must require. If such a plan
is evidently impracticable, some medium, however, may be
found fo draw as much advantage from the funding system, as
*t is fit, consistendy with a due regard for posterity, to employ,
and at tlie same time to obviate the evils with which its excess
would be attended. We still may devise some expedient by
which we may contribute to the defence of our own cause, and
to the supply of our own exigencies, by which we may reduce
within equitable limits the accommodation ofthe funding system ;
and lay the foundation of that quick redemption which will pre
vent the dangerous consequences of an overgrown accumulation'
of our public debt.
Such are the advantages which the plan I am about to propose
endeavours to combine. To guard against the accumulation of
the funded debt, and to contribute that share to the support of
the struggle in which we are engaged, which our ability will
permit without inconvenience to those who are called upon to
contribute, appears essentially necessary. The great object of
such a practical scheme must be to allot fairly and equally to
every class that portion which each ought to bear. As I have
already stated then, it is my intention to propose, not for your
'{immediate decision, but for your mature deliberation, the plan
of raising, by a general tax within the year, the sum of seven
millions. I am aware that this sum does far exceed any thing
which has been raised at any former period at one time, but I
trust I have stated sufficient reasons to shew that it is a wise and
necessary measure. I am sure that whatever temporary sacri
fices it may be necessary to make, the committee will feel feat
they can best provide for the ultimate success of the struggle, by
shewing that they are determined to be guided by no personal
considerations, feat, while they defend the present blessings they
enjoy, they are not regardless of posterity. If the sacrifices re
quired be considered in this view ; if they be taken in reference
to the objects for which we contend, and the evils which we are
labouring to avert, great as they may be compared with former
exertions, they must appear very light in fee balance.

182 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,
It will be observed that there will be twelve millions out of
fee eighteen still to be provided for in the way of loan. At pre
sent I state this circumstance merely in the cursory review I have
taken of the whole supplies. In what manner it will be done
must depend upon fee views which the progress of affairs may
afterwards suggest. Certain parts of this sum would probably be
raised on different terms. Whatever part of it might be covered
by the produce of the sinking fund may be borrowed as perma
nent debt, providing for its redemption on the same terms with
the other permanent debt ; other parts again may be borrowed
upon a much earlier scheme of redemption. But to proceed
to the mode by which it is proposed to raise this sum of seven
millions. It has been understood for a considerable time feat a great in
crease of the assessed taxes was in agitation. I shall state the
reasons why this branch of the revenue has been chosen as best
calculated to combine the advantages, which I have already ex
plained as desirable' in the intended plan. The objects to be at
tained in the mode of executing this scheme are threefold. One
great point is, that the plan should be diffused as extensively as
possible ; that it should be regulated as fairly and equally as pos
sible, without the necessity of such an investigation of property
as the customs, the manners, and the pursuits ofthe people, would
render odious and vexatious. That it should exclude those who
are least able to contribute or furnish means of relief; that it
should distinguish the gradation of classes ; that it should admit
of those abatements which, in particular instances, it might be
prudent to make in the portion of those who might be liable un
der its general principles. I am aware that no measure can be'
devised adequately to provide for all these objects in all their de
tails and in every particular instance. No scheme can be prac
tically carried into execution, in any financial arrangement,
much more in such a one as the present, with such perfect dis
positions as to guard against every possible inconvenience, and to
render every individual application unexceptionable. These gene-,
ral ^principles, however must be kept in view in every practical

\79il PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 183
plan, and the great question in discussion will be, whether any1
means of apportioning the extent ofthe contribution can be founds
better calculated to preserve them entire than the provisions
which I propose contain. It will at once occur that the taxes;
known by the name of assessed, include so many objects differ
ent in their nature, so many objects in the present state of society
of real necessity, so many of optional use and of luxury, so di
versified by modes and by the state of families, that in general no
thing can afford a better test of expenditure than the way in which
these taxes are combined. One great objection, that the poor
who contribute to the assessed taxes yet may be entitled to be'
exempted from such a contribution as fee present, will thus-bd
obviated in a striking manner. Those who contribute to ths^
assessed taxes compose a number of about 7 or 800,000 house
keepers and masters of families, including a population of nearly
four millions, oh whom fee sum will be raised. Who then are
those who will be entitled to exemption ? Those who already
are not included at all, on account of their poverty, or those
who, for the same reason, are discharged from payment. Whe
ther this description includes fee artificers and labourers who
have a fair claim to exemption, there is at least reason to believe^
from fee best information that can be collected, feat 500,000
housekeepers and masters of families, covering a population of
between two and three millions, are so comprehended. Such is
1 the extent of the total exemption.
The next object then is, to consider the effect ofthe contribution
upon those classes on which it would be rai sed i The assessed taxes
so far as can be ascertained, amount to a sum of about 2,700,000/. '
This sum as collected is levied on about 7 or 800,000 housekeepers;
of whom it is ascertained that 400>000 do notcontribute more than
150,000/. This, indeed) is a little increased by the late additions)
but in a very small proportion) as feese additionschiefly affect those
who belong to the superior classes. The proposed additional assess
ment, then, upon the whole contributors, would amount, on the
whole sum of the assessed taxes, to something less than a treble
contribution. Why it will be something less than treble, which
n 4

184 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,
would be about eight millions, will be explained in the sequel.
When we see that 400,000 householders contribute only 150,000/.
we shall see how small a part of the additional share will fall up
on those who are most entitled to mitigation. In this extensive
apportionment too, we shall discover the modifications which it
may be necessary to make, and the means to adapt it to the ability
of the contributors. The assessed taxes obviously divide them
selves into two classes. Those which in a great measure applied
to inhabited houses, consisted of three duties; that which was
known by the name of the old duty, the window duty, and the
commutation duty, first imposed last war, and regulated in
1 788 ; and of the different per cents, since imposed, which may
amount to about 1,400,000/. out of two millions and a half. In
this both the high and the low classes were included; but among"
the latter, 400,000 contributed only 150,000/. The other con- .,
sists of optional consumptions and luxury — the duty on servants/.. 'ip».M
carriages, horses for pleasure, and that class of horses employed
in agriculture, the proprietors of whom, in the present state of
the country, one of the most opulent classes which it contains,
could not bs injured by such an addition to the moderate rate
which is now paid. It will readily occur that, where there are
houses which do not contribute for the optional, or class of luxu
ry, there the inhabitant must be best entitled to favour and miti
gation. On these, then, the burden will fall much more lightly
than on those, such as ourselves, and. those who contribute
to both divisions of the assessed taxes. There is another dis
tinction likewise which will increase the facility of applying the
relief, which it may be found proper to bestow. The house tax
in the metropolis and other great towns, is more felt by the in
ferior classes than it is felt by the same class in the country. Per
sons in the same circumstances of life, who in the country pay
only perhaps 2/., in towns may pay three or four times that
amount. It is the_ advantage of this plan then, that it will be in
the power of the committee to make the contribution bear
upon those who are best able to pay, and diminish the burden
ef those who are best entitled to relief. It forms another charac-

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. ' 1SS
teristic advantage of the plan, that the relief which i t may be expe
dient to give to the poor, will not materially affect the ''produc
tiveness of the tax. There is reason to believe, from the best
estimate that can be formed, that not more than 3 or 400,000/.
is raised in all the metropolis. This includes, indeed, all who
are entitled to relief, but it likewise includes all those who are
best able to pay. If great cities and populous towns contain a
great number who, from their poverty, have a claim to exemp
tion, they contain likewise a great proportion ofthe opulent class,
who will be able to contribute in such a manner as to supply what
it would be unfair to exact from the inferior class. Thus fee
two classes together will supply what is required without oppres
sion to fee poor, or defalcation of the tax. In this manner,
following fee gradations of ability, as they are clearly pointed
out by the profits of voluntary or luxurious contribution; and the
claims to relief, as they are ascertained by the nature of the taxes
which individuals already pay, the full amount will be fairly
collected, and fee burden justly distributed. In this way the
first class of contribution will, 'on the whole, double the amount
of what is already paid, though in some cases it may be more
than double, in others considerably less. In this way 2,800,000/.
may be obtained. Upon that class which comprehends the taxes
on servants, pleasure horses, carriages, &c, it is proposed to
treble the assessment. In the higher classes, where the quantity
of assessed taxes may be considered as a fair criterion of opulence,
the rate of contribution may in some cases be an addition offeree
and a half, and even, in tlie highest class of all, a quadruple of
the present tax.
On the second description, there may be obtained about
3,900,000/. at the treble rate. Allowing 500,000/. for the
highest class, the produce wife the 2,800,000/. for the first class,
makes more than 7*000,000/. If it were trebled on the whole,
the produce would be more than 8,000,000/. ; but it will now be
sufficienUy understood, that, from fee modifications which it will
, be expedient to introduce, in many cases, instead of double there
will not be one rate, in some not one half rate, and others still

1SS MR, PITTS [Nov. 24";
less, to be exacted. Thus, from the treble allotment, there will be*
nearly one million to be divided in modification to alleviate the
burdens of those whom it may be wise to exempt. In this man
ner each class will mutually contribute to the relief of those who
are unable to sustain an additional burden, and the 400,000 who'
now pay so small a proportion will continue to be protected from:
any severe exaction by the extent which the tax will receive from
the more opulent class of contributors.
Thus the advantage of such an arrangement will allow suffi
cient latitude of relief where relief should be giveh without
diminishing fee productiveness of fee tax; It will allow an/
exemption to those who have no means, not to those who are:
unwilling to contribute ; of the former there may be many in
number, but little in amount ; of the latter, whatever the
amount may be, I am sure the numbers Will be few. I am sure!
feat there cannot be a large proportion of men in any part of
this country who will be unwilling to concur in those measures'
which are felt so necessary for the public safety, or Who can re
fuse to contribute a part of their property for the preservation of
all they possess. In such a cause no man can find the extent of
bis contribution limited, but by the extent of his ability. In
every class where the means exceed fee actual necessity ; in
every case where the power of contribution exceeds the absolute
demand, no man can surely be so unmindful of the duties he owes
to his country, no man can be so blind to the interests he has to
preserve, as not to feel that he makes the most frugal and gene-'
rous option in contributing to defend the society, of which he
forms a component part, and to maintain that station which he
occupies. I am aware that I anticipate the wishes of every man
who hears me, in thus proposing that the extent of the relief*
which the poor will receive, will be defrayed by the rate of con
tribution varying with the property and the stake which men
hold in the country, by attaching upon the same classwith our
selves the additional burdens which the poverty of the lower
classes will improve. In thus affording a proof of fee sincerity
ofthe pledge we have given by our readiness to make the sacri
fices which it requires, I feel that I am equally in unison with ths

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 187
oeneral sentiment of the committee, as with fee great principles
of policy and of justice. Speaking for ourselves, we thus dis
claim every little jealousy of fee extent of the burden we are
called upon to bear. We prove to the world that we are not
limited by this or that contribution ; we demonstrate that we
calculate only the magnitude of the occasion, and consider only
whether the effort be equal to the importance of the demand. £
trust that the exertion will not be deficient, feat fee contribution
will not be inadequate j but if it were found to be below fee
Unexampled greatness of the cause, I am sure that fee utmost
alacrity would be shewn to submit to still greater sacrifices, and
to display more vigorous efforts. We have the satisfaction of
knowing that, however heavy these burdens might be, if per
manent, yet as temporary sacrifices they are light in fee scale
when weighed against this mighty crisis and extremity of defence,
when compared with the horrors we have to shun, and fee value
of fee blessings we have to preserve. If I am not deceived in
the inquiries I have made, the greatest contribution will not
exceed a tenth ofthe income of die highest class of those by whom
it is paid. No man surely will think such a sacrifice too great
for such a cause; he cannot think advantages too dearly purcha
sed, if the effect of our preparation be to discourage the extrava
gant pretensions of the enemy, to dissipate the vain hopes they
have built on our supposed financial embarrassments; to animate
- confidence at home, to confirm the solidity of our power, and to
maintain the sources of our prosperity.
Having thus explained the general nature of die plan pro
posed, I must not omit to suggest the precautions whic'i will be
necessary to prevent- the contribution from being eluded on the
one hand by a subsequent diminution of establishment, and on the
other, to make provision that a real change of circumstances
may not expose individuals to an oppressive exaction. It is evi- .
dent, however, that in order to make the tax productive, it must
proceed on a past, not on a future assessment. For, Sir, every
gentieman must feel, that if for the period feis contribution is to
be levied upon the people, the share each individual is to cqij-»

18S

MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,

tribute, were to be regulated by future assessments, a great part
of the benefit there is now reason to expect we shall derive from
it, would be frittered away by concealment and evasion. It is
therefore my purpose to propose, that not future but past assess
ments shall be made the basis of the new contribution ; because,
primafacie, the most impartial evidence that can be obtained of
the ability of each individual to contribute to the exigencies of
the state, is the amount of his expenditure of income before he
has any temptation to lower it, in order to elude taxation. On
fee other hand, Sir, as cases may exist of some, who by acci
dental causes are rendered unable to support their present esta
blishment; of others, who, having improvidentiy engaged in
them, repent of their imprudence and desire to return to a situ
ation better adapted to their real circumstances; and of others,
who, though able to pay their present assessments, can shew
themselves by the proportion they bear to their income, to be
unable to bear the additional weight of the new contributions, it
is my intention, when the whole shall come in detail before the
house, to propose regulations for the relief of such persons, to
be digested and modified in the best manner which so compli
cated a subject will admit. But while provisons of feis kind are
to be made in favour of those upon whom the assessment would
be too severely felt, the house will foresee that it will be impos
sible, with any regard to the great and important object in view,
to suffer the tax to be evaded by those who, not deficient in
ability, but wantingin inclination to contribute tO*the necessities-
of their country, would abandon the establishments to which
r they have been accustomed, and diminish their expenditure, in
order to avoid the tax. But if it be found feat, in point of fact,
they shall have resigned their establishments from inability to-
maintain them ; and, if they follow up that resignation with a
declaration to be prescribed for the purpose, that the increased
assessments would amount to more than a certain proportion, to
be regulated on a future day, of their whole income, then they
shall be entitled to relief. Sir, I am awa,re, that, though the
house and the nation will, with few exceptions, concur wife me

1797-1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. isg
in tliis, there will not be wanting those who will cavil at this
mitigating provision, and allege that it will amount in its effects
to a compulsory disclosure of property; but the house will im
mediately see that it falls short of that, and will view it in its
true aspect, that is to say, as a provision intended to qualify, to
mitigate, or to prevent any severity or injury that may arise to
individuals from the difficulty, or rather the utter impracticability
of drawing a precise line of demarkation between those who,
pn account of the property they possess are bound, and those
who, from inferior circumstances, are unable, to contribute to a
supply for the exigencies of fee state : no man can say that such
a provision, coming wife the effects of relief, is a hardship, and
I am sure no man can say that the tax would be efficient without
it. These, Sir, are the outlines of the plan which I mean to offer
to the consideration of the house in more minute detail upon a
future day. If, when the whole has been examined, it shall
meet the concurrence of, and be adopted by die house, it will
be found disengaged from many difficulties, embarrassments,
and expenses, that lie in the way of other modes of taxation ;
.for, Sir, fee execution of it will entirely depend upon laws
now existing, laws long in force, laws familiar to those who
will be the objects of its provisions. To enforce it, no new
power will be delegated, no new office created, no new expenses
incurred. Sir, I am aware feat in contemplating a system of finance
|vhich professes to make property fee basis of its assessments, and
.to be as diffusively, as generally, and as equally levied as circum
stances will admit, an idea will naturally suggest itself to every
pne, as it has to myself — I mean feat assessed taxes, however
differently apportioned to the circumstances of different persons,
and however certainly they may attach on persons of opposite
descriptions, are often eluded by a particular description of men
pf large property ; you will see I mean those men who possess
large capitals, and who, by denying themselves many of fee
enjoyments of life, hoard up money, and exclude themselves
from assessment. How much feis applies to the subject in con7

190 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,
sideraticn I will not now discuss, since it certainly applies no more
to this than to any former mode of taxation ; for I know no act
to make property the subject of taxation, while it is not rendered
conducive to the pleasure or convenience, or rendered visible by
the optional expenditure of the person who possesses it. If this
objection has never stood in the way of taxation before, I am
at a loss to suppose how it can be made an objection to this, and
.shall be extremely obliged to any gentleman who will ppint put at
mode by which property so held in hand can be subjected to tax
ation -or assessment. The proportion this class of individuals
bears to the mass of fee taxable part of fee nation, is not suffi
ciently great to add any weight to the objection if it were madej,
and I submit it to the feelings and wisdom of the committee, •
whether, in a case of urgency and importance like fee present,
ninertenths of the community shall refuse tp contribute to fee
support, fee preservation, the existence of the state, because no
means can be found to compel fee remaining tenth to contribute
also. Undoubtedly if it be now necessary to make great contri
butions instead of incurring a large mass of new debt, and if that
be the best mode of carrying on fee war, it would be gready
advantageous to be able to get at some mode of assessing all pro-
perty in all individuals ; and so far it is to be lamented that the
description of people of which I speak cannot be made subject
to an assessment. Rut if, on the ofeer hand, we can flatter
ourselves, as I own I do, with fee hopes of being relieved some
time from that necessity, then, even though the hoards of the
penurious elude our search, it by no means follows that the
nation will receive no profit from them; for on a general plan,
though utterly inactive in the expenditure of the possessors, they
become active in some other shape, or in other hands, and
always find their level in fee course of successive ages: so that
though the scrutiny to pry into wealth may for a timebe baffled,
fee effects of that scrutiny never fail to be produced by time. If,
however, I saw fee means, or could suppose that means might
he devised, by which such capitals could be made productive
and useful to fee state in way of revenue, I de assure the com-

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, lgl
inittee I should consider it an object too important at this time to
¦be neglected; though I still consider them as making a part of
the strength of fee country upon fee average principles of general
resources. Yet, Sir, we might flatter ourselves that, independ
ent of that compulsory power which the condition of such pro
perty denies us, a due proportion of it would, at least in some
<ases, be forthcoming at the solicitation of self-interest and
self-defence; for if this is a time, as I contend it is, when the
people of this country are called upon not to contemplate their
wealth only for its enjoyment, not to indulge in prejudices, or
opinions, or in doubtful speculations, but to take measures for
the preservation of their existence now, and their security in
future, and that for feis purpose we are calling for money, not
to be raised by loan with interest, to remain a heavy burden
on .those who are to follow us, but by demand on capital, then
-ought the hoards ofthe penurious to be opened) then sliould
those who, devoted to accumulation by ignorance of enjoyment,
and early habits of frugality, have arisen from the lower rank
and meanest employments, by rigid frugality and indefatigable
-industry, protected, fostered, and encouraged by that happy
system of government-and those equal laws which enabled them
. and permits any man to emerge from the bottom to the top of
society, and who, in contemplating their possessions, can scarcely
have a hope but that of transmitting to their posterity those
-blessings and comforts they deny themselves — then ought they,
>I say, for fee recollection of the benefits they have received, and
for the sake of those to which they look forward, to consider
themselves above all men bound to come forward, in defence
,of that system which afforded encouragement to their labours,
nurture to feeir industry, vigour to feeir pursuits, and protection
to their persons, their property and their acquisitions ; then
.ought such men to reflect, if they have the means, feat this is
the occasion on which they should come forward; then ought
they, who have an interest so great in the country, to see that
though it is impracticable to compel them, it is at least necessary
^or them to contribute, and that fee necessity of fee times is. the

192 MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24,
most urgent, as well as the best of all compulsions ; and come
forward, not only' uncompelled, but unsolicited, to offer their
contribution. That some will have this feeling, and act upon
it, I will not doubt — that all will do so, I am not so sanguine as
to expect ; but though they should neither come forward volun
tarily, nor be subject to coercion, that can hardly be stated as an
objection to die plan, unless something more unexceptionable
can be presented in its place.
Then, Sir, there remains another, and a leading considera
tion. I have already stated the grounds on which I build my
plan for raising seven millions of the nineteen that are necessary
for the supply of fee year. This leaves, as I have before men
tioned, a sum of twelve millions to be raised by loan. And
here a point, separate, indeed, in its nature, but not less im
portant in its consequences, properly claims your attention. I
have stated that the sum of seven millions, to be levied in a
direct way by increased assessments, is intended to make fee
quantum of the loan more moderate. But I shall now state
another principle which would lay the security, the credit, tire
efficient powers, and the resources of the country on a firm and
immoveable foundation — a principle that will tend not to effect
a diminution of our burdens for the present, but to prevent an
accumulation of them for the future. The house will recol
lect that, by means of the sinking fund, we had advanced far in
fee reduction of the national debt previous to the loans neces,-
sarily made in the present war, and every year was attended
wife such accelerated salutary effects as outran the most sanguine
calculation. But having done so, we have yet far to go as things
are circumstanced, if the reduction of the debt be confined to
fee operations of that fund, and the expenses of tlie war con
tinue to impede our plans of economy : we shall have far to go
before the operation of that fund, even under the influence of
peace, can be expected to counteract the effects of the war.
Yet there are means by which, I am confident, it would be t
practicable in not many years to restore our resources, and put
the counf ry in a state equal to all exigencies. It is impossible^

17970 ' PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 193
Sir, but we must feel ourselves bound by duty, if we wanted
the encouragement of success, to proceed in the business, and
to complete fee work which has already had so much suc
cess, and even to provide, if it shall be found expedient or
necessary, for mole rapidly accomplishing feat desirable ob
ject. Not only, Sir, do I think that the principle is wise, and
the attempt practicable, to provide large supplies out of the
direct taxes of fee year ; but I conceive it to be equally wise,
and not less practicable, to make provision for the amount of
fee debt incurred and funded in the same year ; and if the
necessity of carrying on the war shall entail upon US the neces
sity of contracting another debt, the principle I have in view
is such, that, wife fee assistance of fee sinking fund toco-ope
rate, we shall not owe more than at the beginning. I cannot,
indeed, take upon me to say, that the war will not stop the
progress of the plan of liquidation ; but if the means to which
I look be adopted, it will leave us at least stationary — it will
leave us where we were ; and besides the salutary influence it
Will have upon our credit and resources at home, it will pro
duce the happy effect of demonstrating to tlie enemy, that,
Whatever thenature of the contest may be, or whatever its du-
ration, our strength is undiminished, our resources unexhausted,
and our general situation unimpaired ; that fee hopes they enter
tain of destroying fee country through the medium of its finance,
are as vain as feeir designs are wicked; and that, whatever
measures they may think proper to adopt against this country,
they will find us not at all disabled for the contest. But, Sir, -it
is necessary for me to be more explicit ; and I will endea
vour to make fee point appear 'as clear to the house as it now
appears to me.
If I must borrow twelve millions, four of those may be bor
rowed without making any additional debt ; for fee sinking fund
Will pay so much. There then will remain eight millions,
which would be an additional permanent capital if suffered to be
funded : for feese eight millions, therefore, I would make a
vol. m. o

Ifl4 MR. PITT'S [Not. 24,
different provision, that is to say, I would propose feat the in
creased assessed taxes, the plan of which I have already laid
before the heuse, be continued till fee principal and interest be
completely discharged ; so that, after seven millions have been
raised for this year, the same taxes in one year more, with the.
additional aid of fee sinking fund, will pay off all that principal
and intermediate interest. My proposition, therefore, if carried
into effect, would not only furnish a current supply, but quicken
the redemption of fee national debt, without bearing harder on
the people than they can conveniently sustain. This would
speak a language to all Europe ; feis would speak a language te
the enemy, feat, by cooling the ardour of their expectations, and
shewing them the absurdity of their designs, will afford the bejt
chance of shortening the duration of the war, and of lessening
the duration and weight of our taxes. If^youfeel yourselves
equal to this exertion, its effects will not be confined merely to
the benefits I have stated in the way of general policy, and in a
successful determination of fee contest, but will go farther; it
will go to the exoneration of the nation from increased burdens,
and to the relief of those who are to follow us from the weight
of the expenses of a war, waged in defence of a system which
we have received from our progenitors in trust to be transmitted
entire to our successors. Unless yOu feel you have a right to
expect, that by less exertion you will be equally secure, and
indulge the supposition that; by stopping short of this effort, you
.will produce a successful termination of the war, you must set
aside all apprehensions of the present pressure, and, by vigorous
exertion, endeavour to secure your future stability, the happy
effects of which, I pledge myself, will soon be seen and ac
knowledged. I am aware that it will be said, (for it has often
been said) and I agree to it, that it would be fortunate if the.
practice of funding had never been introduced ; and that it is
not terminated is much to be lamented ; but if we are arrived at
a moment which requires a change of system, it is some en
couragement for us to look forward to benefits, which, on all

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 19s
former occasions, have been unknown, because the means of
obtaining them were neglected.
If, Sir, fee whole sum be provided for ih fee manner I pro
pose, instead of being funded, the advantages will be greater
than these, whe have net been at fee trouble to calculate it, can
suppese. In fee mode I propose, fee whole, with the interest
on it, will amount to no more than sixteen millions; raise that
sum, and you and your posterity are completely exonerated from
it; but if, on the contrary, you will fund, it will entail an
annual tribute of 150,000/. for forty years, which makes a dif
ference of not less than forty millions to those who are to follow
you. These are fee principles, feis is fee language, this fee
conduct fit for men legislating for a country, feat, from its situa
tion, its constitution, and its natural strength, bears the fairest
title ef any in Europe to perpetuity. Yeu should lppk to distant
benefits, and npt work in the narrow circumscribed sphere of
short-sighted, selfish politicians. You should put to yourselves
this question, the cnly pne npw to be considered — " Shall we
sacrifice, or shall we save to our - posterity, a sum of between
forty and fifty millions sterling?" And above all, you should
.jansiderfee important effect such firm and dignified conduct
*!tSU have in fee progress and termination of the present contest,
which may, without exaggeration, be said to involve every thing
dear to yourselves, and to include in it the fate of your posterity.
The house will now judge how far I have succeedea .n finding
a,criterion by which to mark out the distinctions and the pro
portions in the taxes I have proposed. They will decide how
far I have succeeded in accommodating the different rates of
increase to the circumstances ofthe different classes of society :
they will determine whether I have given a plan that affords
sufficient modifications, and jusf mitigations of the severity of
the imposts. If there be any thing defective, I wish to supply
it; if there be any thing erroneous, I am desirous to rectify it ;
if I have exceeded-, I am willing to retrench : it is a measure
of unprecedented importance, and it must be my anxious desire
, o 2

ig6 MR. PITTS [Nor. 24,

to be correct in -it. I therefore court investigation— <hut Iear-
nesdy hope there will be no difference of opinion in the house,
as to the principle upon which the measure is founded. As I
have not been able to find, in anjr man of any party, a trace of
doubt as to the sufficiency of our resources, I think I have a
right to assume feat tiiere can be nc difference as to- pur right to
empley feem ; at least I can say feat I have net heard a werd of
any avowed difference on feat point in any corner of the
country. Attested thus, I have produced a state of resouroes
unimpaired even by this wasteful war : on any other account
no difference can possibly arise upon this day. In fee interval
between feis and the day on which I shall finally bring this
subject before you, I will receive with attention any observa
tions feat gentlemen may please to suggest ; and I hope all will
agree with me, feat fee question for consideration is not, whefeer
fee burdens proposed are heavy or unprecedented, but whefeejr
there is any option left to us — -whether they are not dictated by
unavoidable necessity, and whether any, better adapted to the
circumstances of the country, ean be devised to supply their
places ?
Sir, having said so much, I will not follow it up wife particu
lars, but move a resolution conformable to the general design I
have laid before the committee ; and I will postpone fee particu>
lar parts of the plan to another day — the earliest that circum
stances will allow.
He then moved the following resolution, which was agreed
to: " That it is fee opinion of feis committee, that there shall b*'
paid a duty, not exceeding treble the amount of fee duties im
posed by several acts of parliament now in force, on houses and
windows, and inhabited houses, by the 6th, lgth, 24th, and
S7fe Geo. III. and likewise the several additional duties of ten
per cent, per annum, imposed thereon by several act* ©f parltt-
*ent, wife certain exceptions and abatements."

17970 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 19?
Mr. Tiemey rose next ; and, after going over the various calculations
"of the Chancellor ofthe Exchequer, and inferring from thence the declining
state of the national resources, he declared, that with the present adminis
tration he held it impossible that this country could have peace. The right
honourable gentleman, he affirmed, wanted the requisites to bring about
a peace ; he possessed not the confidence and respect either of France, or
qf any of the European powers.
Mr, Pitt replied :
I shall endeavour to follow fee honourable gentleman who has
just sat down, in some of the observations he has thought proper
to make. Knowing, as I do, fee ingenuity of that gentleman,
and recollecting his declaration in feis house some time since j
Jtnowing feat he stands pledged to give his Majesty's present
ministers every opposition in his power — when I compare that
declaration, and apply it to his speech to-night, a speech cer
tainly not destitute of ingenuity or of preparation, I own I am
a little at a loss to find in him that consistency for which he
expects to obtain credit, as a man wishing for nothing so much
as fee welfare of his country. Whatever may be thought pf
the speech of the honourable gentieman, either by fee public or
by his own constituents, I shall observe upon parts of his speech
as they appear to me. I will endeavour to follow him in
his direct arid his collateral topics ; in some which were cer-,
tainly not direct, and in others that I cannot say were collateral,
because they had no reference to the sphjects now hefore the
committee, either collaterally or otherwise. He begins by com
plaining of excess, and he comments on the navy estimates, in
which his zeal has misled him. He talks offeree millions, and
a million and a half, as sums I took credit for ; whereas I stated
the whole sum to which he referred in this part of his speech
wpuld he three millions, and feat I should provide for half of
them by bilk, and that a million and a half of feem should be
outstanding. But he then goes on to state, that I made a mis
take offeree millions upon the statement of navy extraordinaries.
Gentlemen assert things that have no foundation any where but
in their own fancy, and they repeat them so often, and wife so
njuch confidence, .feat at last they become the dupes of their
o 3

ig8 MR. PITTS, [Nov. 24,
own artifice, and believe these assertions themselves. Be it re
membered, however, that in the course of every session since
the war began, I have, on every occasion, stated feat the na
ture of such extensive transactions, as those of fee army and
navy, was such as to render accuracy in the estimate unattainable.
I do not pretend to it at any time, bat I always do my utmost to
approach it ; and I do aver that there never was at any time of
war more attention paid, than in the whole course of this, to
prevent excesses beyond the estimate- True it is, you have had
more excesses in this than in any other war, nor is it marvellous,
for it is a war of a different kind, and of a more complicated na
ture than any other you were ever before engaged in. But the
honourable gendeman, in his public zeal- to detect the fallacy of my
statements, assures the committee, that, in stating the sum of five '
millions upon the article of fee navy, I have committed an error
of three millions. This he states as being the excess upon one
article, which amounts, I own, to only five millions ; but fee
excess fairly applies to the whole sum of seventeen millions, of
which these five were a part ; and instead of taking the whole,
and considering that excess as applying to the whole, he applies
it to one part, merely because the whole of the sum was voted
by separate votes on different heads, and compares that excess
with one branch of the whole. I shall say no more than that I
leave fee committee to judge of the fairness of such a mode of
reasoning. The honourable gentleman says, I do not now speak with con
fidence on the produce of the taxes, and yet he allows the reve
nue to be flourishing, in which too, it seems, he rejoices. He
says I have put into the mouth of the king what has not been
nttered out of my own this night. Nothing has been said by
me upon that subject to-night — I mean upon the flourishing
" state' of our revenue. No, Sir, it is not out of my mouth that
expression' came to-night, and which the honourable gentleman
censures me for omitting, but out of his own ; and when the
honourable gentleman thinks he sees a smile from this side ofthe
house, he magnifies it into a horse-laugh In consequence :cf what

IJ07.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 199
he advances. I am afraid he gives credit to some part of the
house for more attention than tiiey deserve. All these conside
rations induce me to suspect, feat, if I had stated many things
which he expected me to state concerning the prosperity of the
country, he was prepared widi a long speech to contradict me
upon that head. He went into a detail of the revenue in 1796
and 1797> fr°m which fee committee is to derive nothing but a
very desponding inference. For the future powers of feis coun
try are, according to his deductions, to be very feeble. He is
not, however, bound to abide by these sentiments ; and as he
says he will take a view of the subject, and mature his judg
ment for the discussion of it in future, I hope a minute attention
to it will alter his opinion. He has told us that the accounts are
not yet before us. In this his vigilance has been eluded, for the
documents necessary for fee purpose are now upon ypur table,
and by which, if he condescends to peruse them, he will find that
the report of fee committee of finance, and which holds out to
us a prospect so flattering, is entirely justified. The honourable
gentleman dwelt for some time ,on the produce of the wine duty,
and that of the Scotch distillery, and infers that' they will not an
swer fee estimate ; in which inference he is too rapid, for nei-
. feer of which has hitherto found its level. These points I mere*
ly touch incidentally, not meaning to argue them now, that be
ing foreign to the leading purpose of this night's discussion, and
of which there is to be a detailed discussion hereafter.
The next point to which the honourable gendeman refers, is the
subject of fee advance from fee bank to government. Upon this
fee honourable gentleman has indulged in a species of eloquence,
which is almost as new to him, as ishis congratulation on the pros
perity of this country. He says that this resembles the system
which was adopted in France, and leads to the despotism which,
under the name of liberty, is carried on there. What similarity
tiiere is between the limited and voluntary advances of the bank,
to an amount which would be shortly repaid, and the depreciated
millions and milliards of the French government, I leave to him,
and to those who are now convinced wife him of the rapacity of
© 4

200

MR. PITT'S [Nov. 24;

that system, and who have so lately thought it prudent to declaim,
against the French system, to discover. He says that this is a dan
gerous connection between the government and fee bank j and
he states the sum of three millions to be of ah enormous amount
for the bank to advance to government. He had forgot, not to.
say he never knew, for to a gentleman of so much research,
that would be an extravagant supposition ; but he seems to have
forgotten, that the advances of fee bank to government haye ne
ver been less during the present war, than they are now proposed
to be, under fee very special nature and extraordinary circumstanr
ces of feepresept war. I ask, feep, what does fee honourable
gendeman mean, by saying that this is a dangerous connection
between government and the bank ? Does he mean to say that fees
restriction on the bank ought no longer tp continue » If he does^
not, I maintain that it is no dangerous connection whatever
since it will be of no inconvenience to the public while the re
striction continues; for fee public security is precisely the same
as if this advance was not made by the bank at all.
But it seems the honourable gentleman could not face his con
stituents ; that they would ask him, where he was when such a
measure was proposed ? [Where my tongue was, said Mr. Tier-
ney.] It is not very material, Sir, which, as I should suppose;
where the honourable gendeman is, there his tongue must be
also. He says that the measure is of such an alarming nature>
feat the sense of the house ought tp be taken upon it at once ;
he says feat I have a great desire to impose upon the house, and
that I distrust my case. I have heard, Sir, feat great eagerness
for the dispatch of business is sometimes evidence that the party
bringing it forward has some distrust of it ; but that I should
propose a plan that would give him time to prepare a speech, is
an instance of distrust, which, considering the extent of his in
genuity, I could hardly have expected to be accused of. I can
not help thinking, that it is a little extraordinary he should first
tell me that the measure I propose is unprecedented, and then
tell me I am to blame for offering to fee house time to come
to a decision upon it, instead of calling for a decision immediately.

tfgfl PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 20*
. The honourable gentleman then tells us that this is a plan.
which cannot be effectual in fee hands of his Majesty's present
ministers, for feat they are not qualified to carry it into effect.
That there may be, and are, in his opinion, others better quali
fied, I have no doubt, and I have as litde doubt that he would
he ready to propose them if it depended upon him ; but if his
pbjectipns go against fee man, it is, hardly fair, upon that ground,
to call upon the house to reject the measure. It seems I am no$
the person to make* any proposals of this kind to fee house.
Why am I not the man ? The question is, not who proposes the
pleasure, but whether fee measure ought to be adopted .' But
when the honourable gentleman comes to argue, the question in
feat sense, and when he comes to lay before you the unexampled
profusion of which he says I am the profligate author, I hope he
will condescend to take in view fee extent of the service for
which we have had to provide, its extraordinary nature and cha
racter, as well as the great expense with which it has been at
tended, without forgetting the dearness of all the articles of pro
vision, and various, other things, at which it is not necessary at
this moment to glance; but above all, at the extraordinary ef
forts, and corresponding expense.
But diere is another part of fee speech of the honourable gen-
'deman, which contains an important objection to my continuing
in fee official situation in which I now stand, because, he says,
while I remain in feat situation, this country cannot have peace.
Jf he thinks/ so, that is a good reason for his moving an address
to remove me. Supposing this "house to agree to that motion,
there is no reason, I presurpe, why this house should not take
care of the interests of the public, and still more why, supposing
them to have no objection to the measure now before them, they
S-hould npt agree to it. Rut there is a reason for apprehending
feat this country cannot have peace while I and my colleagues
continue in office. Why cannot this country have peace while
we continue in office I Because, in truth, we have pot the confi
dence of . the enemy. Sir, we cannot have the confidence of th«s
enemy. The confidence of the enemy ! No, Sir, that is im-

202 MR. PITTS [Nov. 24,
possible ! We are not entering into fee spirit of feeir rules, we
are not disposed to promote their principles ; we do not wish to
imitate their system ; we do not think it practical in England,
however it may be made the subject of applause by those who
favour it in their hearts, and, for tlie purpose of opposing Eng
land's true interest, the occasional theme of vindictive declama
tion, while it is wished that their principles should be adopted:
which principles have been admired, and occasionally extolled,
since the commencement of fee revolution, 'by those who have
opposed us. If the only claim to the support ofthe honourabte
gentleman in the prosecution of the war is, to deserve the con
fidence ofthe enemy; if it is necessary to admire the French re
volution, which has been the root of all the evils of the present
contest; if it is necessary to have asserted the justice ofthe ene
my's cause ; if fee exertions of the war are to be entrusted to
those who have, from the commencement ofthe contest, thwarted
its prosecution, then, indeed, I am glad that we have not die
vote of the honourable gentleman in our favour.
But the honourable gendeman says again, that there is no
confidence in us in any part of Europe, and he proves it by shew
ing that all our allies have deserted us, and kept none of their
engagements. This argument, if true, might go a good way
towards shewing that we ought to have no confidence in them;
but until he shews some instances of our want of good faith, I
apprehend it does not prove that they have no confidence in us,
and proves pretty nearly as much, as fee argument that it is ne
cessary that I ought to possess fee confidence of his Majesty's
enemies in France.
I think I am entitled now, in my turn, since fee honourable
gentleman has opposed the whole system of the plan which I
have proposed, and especially as he is so much, and as it were
exclusively, the friend of his country, to ask him, whether he has
a better, or any in its stead ? for he has stated none. Perhaps he
has not had time to digest a proper plan ; if he has any in con
templation, he cannot fairly object to the-proposal which I make
now, since he is to have time to prepare his own, which I trust

J797-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 20S
will be much better. But the honounable gentleman says, that
if this plan should have been brought forward at all, it should
have been brought forward much sooner. He acknowledges feat
in cases of great danger, great efforts ought to be made. Now,
I think that in our former situation we were not in so much dan
ger as we are at present, if we do not make great resistance ; and
therefore it appears to me to be more sensible to make great
efforts in time when they are necessary, than to make them when
the circumstances of fee time do not call for them, especially
'when by your financial operations, you are likely to bring the
contest to a happy termination. But fee honourable gentleman
» says, that this plan is to shew that we are at fee end of our re
sources. If he thought so, he might have spared himself the
"trouble of pronouncing a panegyric upon these resources in the'
course of his speech feis night. The honourable gentleman
says, feat this plan shews to the world that we are at the end of
our funding system. The manner in which persons possessed of
capital in different parts of the country have acted, in investing
their property in your funds, is no proof that monied men think
so ; but proves, on the contrary, the confidence they have in
'your resources, and proves also, that wealth is generally diffused
all over the country. This wealth is manifested in the improve
ment of your agriculture, in your buildings, in your canals, in
your inclpsures ; all these, I say, prove, that you possess at this
moment the confidence of monied men, that there is at this
-moment more wealth fean feere was at any former period in
feis country.
The resolution was agreed to, and a day -was fixed for taking the several
propositions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer into further consideration.

304 MR. PITTS [Bbc. 4,

December 4, 1797.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means,
,Mr. Pitt rose and spoke to the following effect :
Having upon a former day so fully stated to fee committee the'
leading principles of the plan by which it is proposed to raise the
supplies for the present year, what I have now to offer will be
confined within a much narrower compass, and wijl consist in a
detail of the particulars of what has been already stated in ths
outline- Before I proceed, however, in this detailed explanation!
f wish to recapitulate shortly to the committee fee general
grounds on which the plan I haye proposed is brought forward,
and the principles on which its expediency ought to be deter
mined. It is universally felt that great and unusual exertions
are necessary; it is felt that this necessity is irnposed upon us
by no act, by no choice of our own ; it is manifest to the world
that the struggle we have to maintain, and the sacrifices we are
called upon to make, are rendered inevitable by the unshaken
obstinacy, by fee inveterate animosity, and the insatiable ambi
tion of fee enemy with whom we contend. It is now proved
beyond dispute, feat the nature ofthe contest is such, that what
ever efforts may be required, whatever sacrifices may be neces
sary, it is our duty to exert feem to the fullest extent which fee
exigency may demand ; and if we possess the smallest spark of
the spirit of freemen, if we retain any remain? pf the character
of Englishmen, we cannot hesitate in our detennination': Since
we are called upon to make such exertions, we have likewise
the satisfaction of knowing, upon a review of fee means which
we possess to second the resolution we are compelled to adopt,
that in every criterion of real wealth, of radical strength, of un
impaired vigour and resource, tp oppose fee unjust pretension?
of an implacable enemy, there never was a period, in winch a
nation was better prepared to maintain 50 important a contest.
With such means in our power, I would likewise bring tg the

1797-3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. aofi
recollection of fee committee fee objects which we ought to keep
in view ib the mode we employ of bringing feem into action.
I would desire you to recollect fee importance of raising at least
some part of the supplies of the year, without making too large
additions to the capital of fee funded debt. It is on fee embar
rassment of fee funding system that the hopes of the enemy are
founded. If, therefore, we are desirous to make the necessary
exertion, in such a manner as will best tend to disappoint fee
hopes which tlie enemy have conceived, and to gain the object
which we have in view, we shall find feat it is our true policy
to prevent such an accumulation cf funded debt in the market,
as would depreciate the public securities at present, and entail
such permanent burdens as might cripple the exertions of fee
state at seme future period.
Such then is the general outline pf the cbject, which fee plan
I .have proposed professes to have in view. From fee principle
on which it proceeds follows feis natural conclusion, that we
are bound to attempt to raise within the year such part of the
supplies for the public service, as will confine fee funding systern.
*ithin proper limits, and guard against fee consequences which
might be apprehended from its excess. If too we look at fee
present state of public finance, at the means of giving it vigouit
and stability ; if we look at the means of strengthening and per
petuating the resources on which fee greatness of fee empire is
founded, we shall be convinced, that it is important to consider
in feat part of fee supplies which a loan may be employed to
provide, what measures may be taken to prevent feat accumula
tion, and whefeer some new modes of redemption may not be,
introduced, to prevent a perpetuation of fee burthens to be in
curred. Proceeding upon these principles, then, it remains to
be discussed, what criterion is to be taken, in order to fix the
plan by which the supply is to be raised. I formerly stated, that,
for'fee purpose of fixing the proportions in which the burden
should be imposed, an universal call for the disclosure of property
would be inconvenient and imprudent. The question then is,
what, is the best mode of fixing the proportions, according to

505 MR. PITT'S [Dec 4,
which each individual shall be Called upon to contribute I As it
first criterion of fee means and ability of feose on Whom the
burthen ought to fall, I thought none more fair and reasonable
fean fee rate of the assessed taxes ; a mode, however, subject to
abatement and modification, according as particular applications
might demand. As a reason for adopting this criterion, I stated
that these taxes were drawn from a Very numerous class, that they
were paid by about 800,000 masters of families, including a
population, probably, of about four millions. This ' mode was
likewise preferred, because it exempts altogether from contri
bution two or three millions of fee poorer classes,- whom it
would be a principal object in any measure of taxation, to favour
and relieve. In the next place, the payment of feese taxes, in
their different combinations of necessary or more voluntary ex-
. penditure, may afford a fair criterion of the ability of the con
tributors, and the proportions in which they ought to be called
upon. The third object to be considered is, the means of modi
fication which this principle admits in.the cases where its appli
cation might be oppressive or unequal.
What then is the manner in which the burden is proposed to
be distributed ? From fee consideration of this point, fee com
mittee will be able to judge, whefeer or not it includes the
means of affording relief and mitigation to those classes whom
it is an object of importance to favour. Gendemen will recol
lect that I formerly stated the amount of the assessed taxes to
be 2,700,000/. ; to Uiis there will be some addition, as the whole
of what had been imposed last year, though in a train of col
lection, had not yet reached the treasury. This, from fee re
ceipts already collected, to the amount of four-fiffes, might on
fee whole be estimated at 600,000/. From the completest in*
formation which could be derived from the papers upon the
table, such might be the amount of the produce of these taxes,
They consist of two kinds. The house tax, inhabited houses,
commutation, or old duty, with the additional 10 per cent-
duties, amount to ] ,500,000/. The remaining 1,300,000/. arises
from male servants, horses, carriages, dogs, and watches. Upba

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 30/
the latter class, it is proposed in general to triple the assessment,
and to modify fee former in proportion as they are combined
with the payment of those of the latter description. In the for
mer class, it is now proposed to include dogs and watches,
though they are properly comprehended in the latter. The
reason of this is, that, although in proportion to their number,
they might be considered as a test of wealth, yet, there are many
cases where only one is kept by persons paying the house duty.
It would be unequal, therefore, to impose the triple rate in
cases where dogs and watches were only kept in that small pro
portion which does not furnish any test of fee ability of the con
tributor. This arrangement, however, will occasion no defal
cation. It will only extend the modification to feose cases
where it is most to be desired that fee burden should fall as
. light as possible.
After taking notice of this distinction, I shall now proceed to
state what is fee mode proposed for fixing fee rate, in those
cases where it is not intended to impose fee triple assessment.
Where the house, window, dog, and watch taxes, alone are
hard, it is not intended to apply the triple assessment, unless the
amount be more than 3/. Where not more than 1/. of assessed
taxes is paid, it is proposed, that the proportion shall be no
more than one half of the present rate. From 1/. to 2/. only a
single rate, and from 2/. to 3/. a double rate. By considering
fee manner in which this mitigation applies, and the number of
persons whom it comprehends, the committee will be able ta
judge of the extent of relief which it will afford. In order to
place this matter in a more striking point of view, I shall state
how many are comprehended in the class in whose favour it will
operate. I have already stated that the whole contributors to fee
assessed taxes are about 800,000 ; out of feese there will be
330,000 who will pay no more than half a rate, and conse
quently only one-sixth of the general average additional assess
ment. It will likewise be found that 130,000 will pay only the
single rate, and 70,000 only the double ; so that there are
530,000 to whom fee abatement on the first rate will apply. After

.303 MR. PITT'S TjOzc. 4;
reviewing the whole amount of fee produce of the assessment,
and the abatements which it may be necessary to allow, it will
be seen, that the diminution upon the whole will be less than
the amount of the sum originally reserved upon this head.
In order to attain the great object for which it is essential to
provide, that of securing the effitiency of the means of raising
the supply, and at the same time preventing the burden from
pressing too severely on those Whom it is important to relieve,
another abatement will be found expedient. ' Before I proceed,
however, I should next state, feat it is proposed, that those
who pay not only the house and window, the dog and watch
fax, but also the ofeer description of assessed taxes, should pay
the triple assessment, taking 3/. to be the point at which this
•Tate is to commence; it is clear that this class cannot apply to
-many who pay any considerable share of the voluntary or lux
urious description of assessed taxes. Those who pay all the
assessed taxes in all feeir respective heads,, it is intended shall
pay the triple rate. In this class there will be no abatement
required, but, on fee contrary, the contributors will be subject
to an increase in proportion as the quantum which they pay
supposes their ability : at what rate of expenditure feis increase
of contribution may be imposed, it is impossible to say with
accuracy ; but the best information which diligent inquiry can
afford, will enable us to determine with a considerable degree of
exactness. Those possessed of a thousand a year and upwards*
will probably come under the description to whom the increased
rate will apply ; those under 30/. of assessed taxes being fixed
at the triple rate ; from 30/. to 50/. it is proposed that the rate
should be three' and a half instead of three ; and where mors
fean 50/. it is proposed to raise it to a quadruple assessment.
The plan thus is founded to distribute the proportion of con
tribution according to tlie rate of die present assessment, and
fee ability which the various modes , in which these taxes are
paid may be supposed to infer. Still, however, some farther
connection will be necessary, to prevent the burden from falling
too hard upon those classes which it may be wise and proper

1797.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 209
io relieve. It is well known that the amount of the house-tax
presses much more severely upon the inhabitants of the metro
polis and of large cities, and upon particular trades, than upon
fee same classes in the country ; that to persons of fee same in
come, in different situations, the burden would press with the
most vexatious and intolerable inequality. The only mode of
correction which this inequality will admit, is to allow an abate
ment below fee charge, on the class to which fee parties entitled
to it belong, upon a declaration, not that their income is con
fined to a certain sum, but that it does not exceed that sum be
low which it may be advisable to allow some mitigation. In any
case where the rateof fee house-tax would exceed a certain pro
portion of a man's income, it is proposed then feat he sball be
relieved by commissioners to be appointed for the purpose, in
proportion to the rate of income corresponding to the class to
which he will belong. Thus, if any person makes it appear that
he is not worth 6"0/. a year, he will be entitled to total exemp
tion. Where fee income is 6ol., and below that sum which it is
intended to regulate, the amount of fee assessment will not ex
ceed one 120th part of the -person's income, or ten shillings.
Where from peculiarity of circumstances, from the nature ofthe
trade carried on in the metropolis and in large cities, persons
pay even half rate, it is proposed that they should be relieved
in proportion to feeir incomes, till the amount of income rose to
200/. a year. Those whose incomes exceed 200/. a year, to re
ceive no abatement from the triple rate, unless they can shew
that this demand would exceed a tenth of their income. The
shortest way then will be to state the proportion of income and
the rate of assessment, to prove to the committee the extent of
reduction which the proposed regulations will admit :
.Persons assessed to duties on male-servants, carriages, or horses,
either separately) or with other assessed duties, where the
amount of the duties shall not exceed
.£30, shall be charged with aduty equal to three
times the amount thereof.
^ 50, to three and a half.
Exceeding 50, to four times.
vol. hi. r

210 MR. PITT'S [Dfce,4,
Persons assessed to any of the assessed duties now payable, and
not assessed to the duties on servants, carriages, and horses,
where the amount of the duty shall be
Under £1 per annum, shall be charged one half the amount
thereof.
Under £l, shall be charged equal to fee amount thereof.
Under .£3, shall be charged twice fee amount.
£3, and upwards, shall be charged three times the
amount.
Persons whose annual income is less than 601. shall be exempted
from the additional duties. And,
Where their income amounts to more than 60l. the duties to be
reduced in the following proportions:
Incomes from 60 to 651. shall be reduced to a^um not exceeding
one 120th part of 60l. or 10*.
70  -.l-95th
75  l-70th
80  l-65th
85  l-60th
90  l-55th
96  l-50th
100  -  l-45th
105  l-40tb
110  l-38th
115  1-36tb
120  l-34th
125  l-32dtb
130  l-30th
135.,.  l-2Sth
1JO  l-26fe
145  ...l-24th
150  l-22dth
155  l-20th
160  1-iOth
165  l-18th
IfO  ,  l-17fe,

1191.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 51 1
175  l-l6th
ISO  ..l-15th
185  l-14th
190..*. *  *.l-lSth
195  l-12th
200  *....-  1-ilth
200, and upwards, 1-lOth, or 20/.
Persons assessed after the 6th of April, 1798, to a greater amount
than at present, to be subject to the additional duties there
from.
Persons not assessed within fee year ending 5th April, 1798, who
shall be assessed in a subsequent year, to be liable to the ad
ditional duties from the commencement ofthe year in which
they shall be assessed.
Persons surcharged to pay the additional duties for the amount
of the surcharge.
The next consideration is in what manner the relief shall be
applied. So far as it is to be in proportion to the rate of assessed
taxes, fee subject admits of the easiest calculation ; but, as to
the application of fee scale of abatement, some mode must be
fixed in which it is to take place. All that it is proposed to re
quire then of the party claiming a mitigation, is no more thatt'a!
declaration of his opinion of what his income may be. It seems
advisable that this declaration should take place before some
persons in each parish conversant with the circumstances of the
parties, and qualified in some measure to judge of the fidelity of
the declaration. This declaration and the degree of relief shall
afterwards be published, in order that there -may be. an additional
security against fraudulent declarations. This security cannot
be deemed a hardship upon any man, nor be considered a de
mand beyond what the country is intitled to impose. If a man,
conceives his assessment to be more than he is able to pay, he
must be contented to declare what part of his income it will form,
in order to be intitled to the relief which he claims.
In the first outline of this plan, I stated that a past assessment
was proposed to be taken as the future rate of payment. Upon
p 2

Hi MR. PITT'S [Dec. 4,
consideration, however, I arn inclined to think that such an ar
rangement will neither be advisable nor necessary. All that is
deemed necessary to prevent evasion, is a declaration upon oath,
that the rate of assessment to wbich-a man is subjected, does ex
ceed a tenth part of his income. '
With regard to feis declaration, it will likewise be necessary
to provide feat in the statement of income, the sum which a man'
now pays to fee assessed taxes shall not be included, as persons
may, in some cases, stand assessed in a much higher proportion
than corresponds to feeir incomes. An innkeeper, for instance,
from fee number of windows for which he pays, might be com
pelled to pay in a very unequal rate, were lie forced to include
whathe mow pays in the amount of his income. The same thing
will apply whenever the average proportion of fee tax exceeds
fee real income of the party, so that it is unnecessary to enter
into the detail of the provisions which are intended to remedy this
inconvenience. As to 'fee mode of appointing fee commissioners who are to ad
minister the relief to those who conceive themselves entitled to it,
the principal object will be, that fee persons to whom this task
should be confided, should be acquainted wife the neighbour
hood, and with the parties who come before them for mitigation.
There might even be no objection to feose who are now employed
to fix the rate of the assessed taxes ; or if this should be deemed
inexpedient, a number of housekeepers might be chosen out of
that class which pays the highest proportion, and who would not
he likely to sue for relief for themselves. Such a number might
'be chosen by lot to exercise this jurisdiction, and such divisions
assigned as would enable feem to act with information and know
ledge- In this way a most respectable tribunal will be formed
perfectly adequate to perform with fidelity and impartiality that
duty which it is proposed to entrust to their care.
These seem to include all the points for which it will be neces
sary to provide in fee way of regulation. In general, however,
some regulation will be necessary to provide, that where persons
become liable to higher rates of assessment than they now pay,

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 213
their cofflitributions to fee present plan will rise in that pro
portion. It now remains to be considered, as far as can be calculated,
what, in all the circumstances, may be the produce of the tax.
I have stated that 3,700,OUOZ. is the amount of the assessed
taxes, exclusive of the new burdens imposed last year. On the
supposition of a treble assessment on the whole, the amount- would
be 8,l6O,0OOZ. From the amount at present is deducted 5)O,O0O£
Ss tlie charge of collection. It cannot be expected that with the
additional trouble that will be occasioned an increase of remu
neration will not be required by feose who collect them, but cer
tainly the same rate of poundage will not be necessary. As
charges of management, then, two-thirds will be applicable tothe
tax. The general amount will thus be 8,400,000/. judging from the
observations which have been made from fee produce and rates
of payment for near fouir-fiffes>o»f the kingdom ; and making allow
ance for fee diminution occasioned by fee half rates, single rates,
and double rates, the whole reduction will not be more feah
§00,0001. or a million. This would' be the whole diminution,
without taking into view the balance on fee side of produce which
jnustarise from the 3f quadruple rates paid1, as they are upon ex
tensive sums. From the effect of this balance, then, the whole of
fee produce will be about eight millions. Still indeed feere is
another abatement to be taken into view. In the cases where in
come does not amount to 6oi. a year there will be a total exempt-
tion, and proportional deductions- according as the incomes
of contributors fall below the sums corresponding to- fee classes
to which they belorig. It is impossible to state any ground
upon which these deductions can be calculated. Their amount
must be wholly conjectural. So much, however, is certain, that
means are' thus provided for a very extensive seale of relief
in different progressive stages. Thus we are sure that we obtain
that essentia! object of preventing the burthen from pressing with
severity upon those classes who ought to be exempted or relieved.
The swa! for which fee whole produce is taken is-beven millions.
The sunt), vfeich upon fee scale already stated it will produce, is
?3

214 MR. PITT'S Dec. 4,
about eight millions, thus leaving 7 or 800,000/. to make any
diminution which may arise from the abatements allowed, and to
make allowance for such modifications as circumstances may re
quire. Against any diminution which may be calculated upon
the above heads, it may not be improper to consider the improve
ment which the assessed taxes will receive from the redoubled
attention to their collection, which may be expected to take place.
These taxes have in many instances been evaded lo a degree be
yond all conception. In consequence of fee enquiries which
some late measures had occasioned, very important discoveries
were made of the evasions practised in this branch of the reve
nue, which more recent investigations have tended to confirm.
Every gentleman who looks at, those who pay in tlie rank with
himself must be satisfied, that more than the amount ol the sura
requisite tp give every proper allowance to those vt'ho deserve mi
tigation, by putting an end to that evasion which has been so ex
tensively practised, will be gained ; and sure I am there must be
but one mind and one exertion to counteract and to defeat such
fraudulent attempts. The call upon the possesions of horses, in
consequence, of fee measures lately taken for the defence of the
country, led to the discovery of very scandalous evasions of the
revenue. 1 ha.ve heard of instances of this kind in cases so ag
gravated from the persons involved, and the rank of life in which
they stood, that it would be impossible for any man to learu the
particulars without mingled feelings of shame and indignation.
Many of the persons guilty of these frauds are probably deterred
from a discovery by a dread of fee penalties they have incurred.
Perhaps, therefore, it may be politic to hold out some encou
ragement to those who shall give a fair account of the duties to
which feey are liable. This I state merely to shew that there is
reason to believe that the accuracy of collection which will now
be established, will serve in a very considerable degree to supply
the deficiency which the application of relief to those who require
jt, may occasion,
Nothing more remains but to state one additional modification
(or which indeed there is no separate resolution, but the pro*

rm.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 215
priety of which the committee will perceive. It is a distinction in
favour of those whose establishments are increased by numerous
families. It might be proper therefore to adopt some regulation
for'those who have a certain number of children, and those who
have no children at all, and to proportion the scale to the large
ness of family, when those who have a certain number of children
apply for relief. Twould propose, therefore, that, if entitled to
that mitigation which they claim, they should be reduced in a
rate below that to which by their income they would belong,
and that feose who have no families should be placed in a rank
above that which they would otherwise occupy.
Having now explained the different points of regulation and
modification which the scheme I have submitted to fee commit
tee will admit, I again desire gentlemen to keep in mind that if
I am right in my idea ofthe necessity of raising within the year
at least a certain proportion of the supplies of the year, the first
question that occurs is, How is such a thing to be done ? We are
to inquire whether there can be a call upon income more gene
ral, more equitable, and more effectual, and at the same time
more safe, than that which the plan before you contains ? If a
visible criterion must be selected, can there be any one more com
prehensive, more capable of modification, more applicable to the
Cases which may call for exception or relief, than that which is
now submitted to your opinion ? Thirdly, can any system of cor
rection be devised that better meets the inconveniencies which
might arise from individual applications than the present ? Such
are the questions for your decision. The effort to be exerted is
doubtless a great one. Seven millions, in whatever mode it is
to be raised, is a great sum to be taken out ofthe pockets of the
people. We must determine by some effort or other to provide
the sum which fee public service requires. Do we think then
that to raise seven millions in this manner is an effort that ought
not to be made, if by such an effort we shall he enabled to main-
lain the contest with more success, and to pursue it to a more
speedy termination than by any other mode of exertion? If we
»re satisfied on feese points we shall not listen,to any general oh?
P 4.

21 0 ME. PITT'S [Dec 5,
jeetions, such as those feat large contributions are always great
grievances to the people. What we should consider is, whefees
less ought to be taken to maintain with vigour, and to prosecute
to a successful termination, a contest for fee preservation of the
whole, for fee safety of ourselves,' and for the interest of poste
rity ? We ought then to examine the subject caret ully, jealously,
and accurately, but with a fixed determination not to be deterred
by the magnitude of fee sacrifice; with a firm determination to
follow up the principle of mitigating the burthen where relief
ought to be applied, and of acting up to fee full extent of the
pledge which we have given ; wife a firm determination to exert
every effort feat may be required by the novelty of the crisis in
which we are placed, and the magnitude of fee objects for which
We contend. Having said so much, I shall detain the committee
no longer, but move the first resolution.
The committee divided on the first resolution,
Ayes  214
Noes  1.5
The other resolutions were then severally passed.

December 5, 1797,
The report of the Committee of Ways and Means was hrought up, and
the resolutions in it were read.
Mr. Pitt then, (in answer to a question put to him by Mr,
Hussey, respecting fee application of the sinking fund for the re
duction of fee national debt), entered into a statement of the
different calculations which he laid before fee house when lie
opened fee plan of triple assessment, and expatiated upon the
advantages of applying the produce of fee sinking fund- to fee
reduction of fee debt. He recapitulated his former observations
upon that head. He said, he wondered that any idea should
have gone abroad any where, that any interruption was to be
made to the operation of the sinking fund. It had been benefi
cially applied for fee reduction of fee debt now for eleven years,
four of which were yefirs cf war. It was to be continued in it«

HOT.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. Zl7
full vigour. If this example of natipnal firmness should be fol
lowed in any future war, and we should be able to terminate the
present contest in a way that might afford us a chance of having
a secure interval of peace — real, genuine, not a nominal or de-t
lusive peace, for a considerable length of time, the operation of
the sums feat might be applied, as those of the sinking fund bad
been, would be wonderful.
Mr. Hussey declared his alarm at the terra " nominal or delusive peace,"
when peace at all events was so essentially requisite; and reminded the Chan
cellor of the Exchequer of a former assertion he had used, and of the flatter
ing calculations he had built upon it (in which opinion he, Mr. Hussey,. con
curred with hiin at the time} that this couutry had every prospect of continu
ing long to enjoy the blessings of a profound peace.
Mr. Pitt replied : — I remember the declaration to which
the honourable gentleman refers. It was made by me in the
year 1792. It was at a time when I proposed-, what was ex
tremely agreeable to me, a diminution in the existing burdens
ofthe public, and a continuation- of the sum allotted to fee dis
charge of fee public debt. I did not pretend to assure the house
that peace was at all events to be uninterropted for any given
jaimber of years— that would have been an extravagant and ill-
founded assurance — but 1 thought, under the then apparent ob
vious political circumstances of all Europe, there never appear
ed a fairer prospect of fee continuance of peace for a long inter
val. That in that conjecture I was disappointed, is most un
doubtedly true ; fo* which, however, I ought not to take shame
to myself upon the suggestion of fee honourable gentleman, since
he himself acknowledges he was deceived also. Why were we
both deceived ? Because many of us beheld, wife a- degree of
favourable feeling, the rising- establishment Of what was then a
popular government in France, and saw principles of a pleasing
nature in feeir appearance, but fee extent of which, and the
views of their professors1, were not then developed1 — principles
which professed economy at home, and peace1 abroad. We did
pot then see fee seeds of that wide-spread harvest which has
»iuce been reaped ; of that unbounded ambition abroad, and pTO1-

218 MR. PITT'S Dec 5,
fligate profusion and plunder at home. What then is the infer
ence ? Because I thought feat feere was a prospect of peace in
J 792, when appearances were in its favour, was I to conclude
feat I should be disappointed by a subsequent appearance of am
bition, turbulence, and pbrenzy ? Are we to say now, that we
ought to have scruples in opposing feat violence ? that we are
not to judge of present as well as past appearances ? I am as im
patient for fee hour of peace as that honourable gentleman, or
as any man in this house, or in feis country. 1 have as' much
reason as any man in this country can have, for wishing to see
peace return, when it is accompanied by security. But when I
say, I do not wish to see a " nominal and delusive peace," it is
because I value peace. I do not wish to have peace proclaimed
for a moment, in order to unnerve your strength, to slacken
your efforts, to disband your force, to expose you to sudden and
violent hostility, without your present means of defence, or any
effectual resistance. Should peace be proclaimed without secu
rity, you may indeed have a peace that is nominal and delusive.
1 wish, for the benefit of Europe — I wish, for the benefit of the
world at large, and for the: honour of mankind, as well as for the
happiness of the people of France, although now your enemies,
but who are objects of compassion — -I wish, I say, that the pre
sent spirit of their rulers, and' fee principles they cherish, may
be extinguished, and that other principles may prevail there.
Rut whefeer they do so or not, is more immediately their con
cern than ours. It is not to any alteration in that country, but
to fee means of security in feis, that I look with anxiety and
care. I wish for peace, whether their principles be good or bad;
but not to trust to their forbearance. Our defence should be in
our own hands. In that we shall find fee bulwark of our safety
against France, whatever may be the pride, ambition, or animo
sity of that power against us, and which it has manifested in
almost all the periods of its history ; and I agree with what has
been lately said, that its tone was never higher than it is at pre
sent. Certainly mucbdepends upon fee posture in which you
converse of peace. What is the real foundation of the strength

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 219
of a nation? Spirit, security, and conscious pride, that cannot
stoop to dishonour. It comprehends a character that will neither
offer nor receive an insult. Give me peace consistently with that
principle, and I will not call it a peace " nominal or delusive;"
and there is no man who will go farther fean I will to obtain it.
To any thing dishonourable I will never submit ; nor will feis
country ever submit to it, I trust. There can be no man who
has an English heart within his bosom who can wish it; or cau
wish that you may, by an untimely diminution of your strength,
expose yourselves to the renewal, with aggravated insults, of
those evils which we have already had too much reason to de
plore. ,

December 14, 1797.
On a motion for the second reading of the bill for increasing the assessed
taxes, a long and animated discussion took place.
After Mr. Fox had delivered his sentiments in reprobation of the measure,
Mb. Pitt rose .- —
Before I proceed to make any remark upon fee wide va
riety of topics which the honourable gentlemen upon the
other side of the house have introduced, I feall just advert
to fee last point on which the right honourable gentleman* in
sisted. The other parts of his speech were directed against fee
whole of the measure in substance, but in the latter part he se
parately urged the propriety of delay. The right honourable
gentleman founds this argument for delay upon the agitation
v/hich feis question has excited in the public mind, and the ob
jections to which the measure is liable in its application to a
great number of his constituents. I am aware, that in a!l great
towns, particularly in the metropolis, the objections will be felt
with peculiar force ; but at the same time 1 am sensible that in
'the provisions of which the bill is susceptible, many modifica
tions may be expected, many are practicable consistently with
$6 leading principle of fee measure, and many are necessary in.
* Mr. Fox.

520 MR. PITT'S • [Df.c..14»
order, as far as possible, to prevent it from bearing hard in par
ticular instances. I am aware even feat greater modifications may
be necessary than appeared to me requisite upon fee first consider
ation of fee subject, and when fee first imperfect outline of it was
presented. This, however, does not by any means tend to impeach
fee general principle of the measure. These objections are ca-
pableof modification without defeating the salutary object, which
it is fee purpose of the measure to secure. Instead of feeling
feese objections as completely destructive of fee principle, every
hour's reflection convinces me, feat though it is our duty to en
quire in what respects modification may be proper, how it may
be practicable, how mitigation may be given so as to prevent
any oppressive application of fee measure, yet as to the general
necessity of providing for the public safety, and repelling the
danger by which we are threatened, on fee determination we
shall form upon this question after mature discussion depends,
whether by fee exertions we have pledged ourselves to make,
we shall rescue fee country from impending calamity, and lay
the foundation of as great a portion of future greatness and pros
perity as any nation ever enjoyed, or whether we shall surrender
fee dignity of the British nation, .and expose to inevitable ruin
fee sources of its glory and its power. Feeling as the representa
tives of the people, feat it is our duty to provide for these im
portant and essential objects, we shall be deterred by no diffi
culties, we shall spare no pains, we sball sacrifice every local
prejudice, every partial opinion, to a consciousness of the, neces
sity in which we are placed, to make a vigorous exertion. Feel
ing as I do feat necessity, I know my duty too well not to peisist
in what I conceive to be a measure calculated to save fee coun
try from fee present danger, and to enable it to struggle against
future attacks. It is our first duty, as guardians, to provide
for its present safety, and to transmit to posterity the blessings
which we have enjoyed, and fee means of preserving feem. It
js by feese considerations that our conduct ought to be directed;
it is by these great maxims of policy feat the measure ought to
be judged.

jVOT.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 221
Can we then conceive it our duty, on account of some parti
cular objections of some alleged hardship of application, to
bang up the bill altogether before its provisions have been discus
sed, before its details have been arranged ? Must we forego fee
opportunity of suggesting the case where fee evil would be felt,
of removing prejudice where it exists, and obviating objections
where they are well-founded f Instead of agreeing to any delay,
both in real respect to those who complain of fee hardship with
which fee bill in its present shape would attach, and in duty to
the public, for whose service in this important crisis we are
Called upon to provide, we ought to lose no time to examine fee
bill with the utmost attention, and see where the pressure which
it would occasion may be mitigated. What are the particulars
and extent of fee farther modifications which it may still be neces
sary to introduce, it will not be incumbent upon me now to state.
It will be recollected feat, when I first opened the subject, I
stated that, as a visible criterion of income, I preferred fee
payment of the assessed taxes, because it was more comprehen
sive, better calculated fo diffuse fee burden, and more suscep
tible of modification in the variousclasses where it would be re
quired, than any ofeer criterion which could be taken. It will
be recollected, not by the honourable gentleman,* who had
thought it proper to absent himself from his attendance in par
liament, but it will be recollected by the house, feat one great
recommendation of this criterion I stated to be, that the princi
ple being still preserved, it furnished greater means of modifica
tion, more opportunity for providing for the particular cases of
hardships and inconvenience, fean any ofeer criterion which could
be adopted. The means of feis modification are now in our
power, and we shall but perform our duty to our constituents,
by shewing our readiness to consider fee inconvenience, and to
apply the remedy. That many modifications are necessary I am
aware, and in the committee, both those which I may propose,
and which others may suggest, will be considered. This I trust
will be a sufficient answer to what fell from a worthy alderman*
• Mr, Fox. + Alderman Lushington.

22!? MR. PITT'g tbBC- **>
at fee beginning of fee debate. Much as I differ from feat ho
nourable gentleman as to fee extent of the abatement, and the
nature of fee scale of contribution; he proposed, I was glad to
bear fee manly and decided manner in which he enforced fee
necessity of great exertion, and the propriety of raising a consi
derable sum, without recurring to the system of funding. I am
convinced that the sentiments he expressed were congenial to
the feelings of a great majority of his constituents and ofthe
country ; and I could not help remarking the contrast between
the language he held, and the tone of the honourable gentle
man* on the other side, compared wife the sentiments of their
respective constituents, in the indiscriminate opposition to every
part of the plan, which characterized the speeches of both the
honourable gentlemen.
Having made these observations on the question of delay, I
shall proceed shortly to consider some of fee other topics on
which fee honourable gentlemen insisted. I do not complain of
the wide field of argument which they took up ; I know that in a
parliamentary sense they were regular : whefeer they were justi
fiable in fee use they made of this privilege, and whether they
made a proper choice of the topics which they introduced on the
present subject, I shall leave for fee house to determine. The
object of this bill shortly is, an extraordinary grant of money for
fee support of fee war; it proposes to raise within fee year a
certain part of the supplies, by a tax on income, on the visible
criterion of the assessed taxes, subject to modification as cir
cumstances may require. In considering the whole of the case,
then, the first question feat occurs is, whefeer it is proper to
grant any money at all ? Then, whether the principle of raising
a certain part within the year ought to be admitted ? And,
thirdly, whether by this criterion attaching to income in the
course of expenditure, the burden would in general be fairly ap-
portioned ?
As to the first point, whether any money at all ought to be
granted, the honourable gentleman, f though he did not say sola
* Mr. Fox. t Mr. Sheridan.

179?.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 223
very words, by the whole of his argument supposed the negative.
The right honourable gentleman who spoke last distinctly argued,
that while ministers continued in power, he could not agree to
any supplies being granted. In stating this to have been their
meaning, I am endeavouring to do justice to their mode of rea
soning. Unless upon this idea, more fean three-fourths of their
observations were irrelevant to fee subject now before the house.
If they do not contend that peace cannot be obtained by fee present
ministers, feat they ought to be dismissed before any scheme of
supply can at all be a fit subject for discussion, fee greater part
of their argument is quite foreign to, the matter now under con
sideration. The right honourable gentleman, while he argues that my
honourable friend * considered the majority of the house and his
Majesty's ministers as the same, forgets feat his honourable
friend t, when he talked of our going out of our places, did not
address himself to fee house, but gave it, as a very friendly ad
vice no doubt, personally to us. It was expressed with a hope
that we would of ourselves abandon the offices we held, as fee
means of obtaining peace. The honourable gentleman then must-
settle this inconsistency wife his honourable friend -beside him.
But before the honourable gentleman, with all his'talents, can
demonstrate the propriety of our dismissal, he ought to , shew
that the nine persons, whom he proposes to pick up between
London and Windsor, will administer the public affairs better
than feose by whom they are now administered ; he must bring
forward something more conclusive and more convincing fean
any thing be had to offer when the dismissal of ministers was
last discussed, fee failure of which attempt had induced him to
quit the service of his constituents, and his despair of success
had led him to abdicate his public character. If I understand
him right, he considers as preliminary to every measure of public
defence, to every exertion in support of the war, a radical change
is necessary. What fee right honourable gentleman means by this
preliminary, expressed in a manner so large and comprehensive^
* Mr. Dundas. * Mr. Sheridan,

224 MR. PITT'S [Dec 24,
in terms no less obscure fean undefined ; whether a parliamentary
reform is to be only a part of this sweeping change ; bow feis
change of system is to operate as a means of saving the country;
how this unlimited change is to conduce to the public safety in
preparing exertion and in repelling danger, I am really at a loss
to -conceive. In considering fee propriety of such a change of
system, or such a preliminary as the introduction of new men
into office, it certainly will be important for fee house to ascer
tain, whether such a change of ministers is calculated to secure
us against fee dangers with which we are threatened, whether it
is calculated to check the ambition of fee enemy, and to procure
a peace that will satisfy the honour of fee nation, and preserve
the Sources of the public wealth and prosperity.
But the honourable gentleman says, feat fee whole tenor of our
language at the beginning of the present contest was, that no peace
could be made with the jacobin republic, and that France is feus
justified in refusing to make peace wife the present administra
tion. At no period of the war did we e-ver express such a senti
ment, or even entertain fee idea that no peace could be made
wife republican France. I remember fee quotation from Virgil
to which he has alluded, and as far as I can recollect it was used'
in one of feose debates in which fee right honourable gentleman
proposed feat overtures should be made for peace at a period
when we contended that no security for peace could be obtained,
and feat fee evils of war were not to be compared to fee inade
quate peace which then could have been concluded. The right
honourable gentleman then urged fee question, whether no ex
tremity of dangfer could induce us to make such overtures? I
then answered, that this must ever be a question of comparison,
feat we must decide as circumstances might arise, and' at least
we ought to persevere till our means were exhausted, till we
could support the contest no longer, and we could say,
Toto certatum est carport regfii.
The honourable gentleman says, feat the meaning of Virgil can
not be explained away, but he seemed to think that Virgil's lan-
2

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 22i
suage might be improved. The honourable gentleman urged
the propriety of making overtures even at that period, and con
tended, as he often had done, that if reasonable terms of peace
were refused, it would unite England and divide France. He
then retorted, that after such overtures were rejected,
Toto certandum est corpore regni.
The honourable gentleman has now seen feese overtures made
and rejected ; and now, when he wishes to bind me down to
the meaning of Virgil, I think he ought not to forget his Latin
pledge. If the honourable gentleman has seen that all attempts at ne
gotiation have been unavailable, if he can look to any period in
which he is called upon to fulfil bis pledge, if he means to ani
mate the public exertions, to exhort to perseverance, to stimu-'
late feeir zeal for the maintenance of the national honour and
the national safety, at a moment when feese objects are thus
unequivocally stated, he would not, as he now does, attempt to
disarm their courage and to distract their efforts. What did the
"honourable gentleman expect from the overtures he proposed?
What degree of insult and contumely did he lay his account to?
endure before he was to be roused to energy and to honour ?
Did he expect any thing more insulting fean the reception our
overtures had obtained, any thing more repulsive, mOre haughty^
more injurious, fean the proceedings of the enemy; any thing
riiore decisive of feeir determined spirit of hostility than their
refusal to discuss the terms we proposed, or to propose any terms
in their turn, on which they were willing to conclude a peace ?
If any thing can meet the honourable gentleman's ideas of in
sult, sufficiently humiliating to require him to act upon his
pledge, let/him look to fee negotiation at Lisle, and fee con*
duct of the enemy upon that occasion. The honourable gentle-
Tnan, though he admitted formerly that feere might be occa
sions to demand unanimity and exertion, thinks himself freed
from his pledge, because ministers were never sincere in their
exprtions for peace* and France was justified in refusing to treat
? ol. in. <j

226 MR. PITT'S £Dec H
with them. But when did fee honourable gentleman discover
feis ? When did fee light flash upon his mind, that ministers
originally were hostile to the republican government of France,
and therefore could not be sincere, ? It is somewhat ' surprising
feat this never occurred to the honourable gentleman before fee
pledge was given, instead of discovering it as our apclpgy for
eluding the pledge after it was given. If the dislike pf miiiisters
te French principles proves their aggression, and justifies the
hpstility of the enemy, this cannot be a new discovery ; it cer
tainly would as well have justified the honourable gentleman in
distrusting any efforts they might make, even while they urged
the overtures, • on the refusal of which they promised unanimity,
as now when they have seen their overtures made without effect.
The declaration of France, at fee beginning of the contest, proved
feat on their side it was a war of aggression, and on pur's a war
pf necessity and good faith towards our allies, If ministers did -
at first see the danger of French principles, without embarking
jn the contest, must they have been the aggressors when they
saw feeir fears realized in the actual aggression, in which fee
principles they had apprehended finally terminated ? At no pe
riod of the contest did we say there could be no peace wife re
publican France. We said, that for peace we would not agree
to prostrate fee nation at the feet of fee enemy ; that we could
not agree to give up what was essential to the safety of the
country. If the honourable gentleman can prove feat we haye
applied for peace, disowning fee justice of our cause, abandon
ing fee principles on which fee present safety and future prospe
rity of fee country are founded, hp would prove that we consi
dered the period arrived when "-every exertion had been made,
and: when fee struggle was to be given -up, because it could no
longer be supported. The honourable gentleman, however,
does not say feat we have acted in this manner. What then are
fee opinions of those who have uniformly, or rather with grow
ing zeal and. devotion, contended feat fee war was just on fee
part of France, and unjust upon the side of this country? Have
they not repeatedly said, On former dccasipns, that pur ordinary

i7e?. j Parliamentary speeches; mf
resources were exhausted ? And to-day, with mysterious si*
lence* they pass pver the subject, and cautiously decline giving
any opinion on fee efficacy of former resources, while they re*
probate new expedients ; and say nothing about the propriety of
resorting to the funding system, while they condemn the prin
ciple of everyplan by which it may be relieved.
The honourable gentlemen'have said, feat our ordinary sources
are exhausted, and that no extraordinary resources can be em
ployed. I leave it to the house then to judge, how far those, who
in principle give the enemy a right to ask all, who, by decrying our
resources, give feem confidence to advance every pretension, by
kindly informing them, that from our inability to resist; they
may extort whatever they demand, are the true friends to their
country, or fee enlightened advocates of peace ? I am con*
vinced feat the majority of the house and of the country will
feel that peace is not likely to be obtained upon terms consistent
with our honour or our safety, by dismissing ministers, if they
are to be followed by men who have ever viewed wife kindness
the principles ofthe enemy; — by men who have justified every
act of the enemy, while they have traduced every measure of
the British government ; — by men who have extolled fee resources
of the French, with a zeal equalled only by the perseverance
with which they have depreciated the energy and the resources
of their own country. Whatever opinions such men profess to
have of fee sincerity of ministers, of feeir capacity for the con
duct of affairs ; whatever conclusions they may draw from the
review of fee finances and the magnitude of our expenses I
leave it to the country and to the world to determine, whether,
under such auspices, there could be any chance of peace upon
terms short of fee basest humiliation to an insolent foe, and the
most criminal surrender of every principle of national honour,
and every source of national greatness.
The honourable gentleman speaks of peace as absolutely ne
cessary ; but has the honourable gentleman explained how peace
is to be obtained ? After encouraging the perseverance of fee
enemy in their wild and destructive designs, by holding out how
« 2

¥» MR. PITT'S [Dec. %
little resistance we can oppose totheir attempts,- fee honourable-
gentleman says not a word of feis. He thinks he does his duty
to his country and his constituents,- by enforcing the necessity
cjf peace, without saying a syllable of the means of pacification.'
Because he tbiuks peace cannot be obtained without a change of
system, he would in the mean time suspend all grants of supply-
After disavowing every opinion we have pronounced, after re
canting every pi iuciple we have maintained, after abandoning
every pledge we have given, after neglecting every means of de
fence, and renouncing every manly exertion, how would the
honourable gentleman ha^e us appease fee fury of the enemy,
and secure the safety of England? Why there must be a
total change of system in' England and Ireland!- Tilllreland
was in a better situation France could have no inducement to
mate peace ! What this change, so mysteriously announced, is
to be in detail, we are left to guess. Are you to negleet the
means of defence, if you cannot persuade the enemy to make
peace. The change which the honourable gentleman- recom
mends, I suspect would be to remove feose distinctions, and to
gweep away those privileges which have raised fee hatred and
envy of France. But the honourable gentleman contends that
the French would be justified in refusing to make peace, because
Ireland is not unanimous ; would he, however, consider minis
ters justified in refusing to make peace, because La Vendee was;
in a state of insurrection ? If in his eyes feis would be an in
sufficient reason- for refusing to make peace with France, when
nearly one-fourth of its inhabitants were in a state of open hos
tility against fee tyranny under which they were oppressed, will
he-say that it is- a reason for the persevering hostility of the ene
my, that Ireland is in a state of danger, arising from the neces
sary exertion of vigour to resist the operation' of French prin
ciples diffused every where wife suGh assiduity, and in Ireland^
with peculiar success ; — circulated wife that industry, which they
have ever, shewn, to supplant by tlieir desolating principles of
liberty- fee real practical blessings of the British constitution ?
Mr. Pitt declared,, he could not conceive how that degree o£

1797.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 22»
perfect unanimity, which the right honourable gentleman seem
ed to think so necessary, could be obtained while these princi
ples were disseminated wife s-uch industry ; but this was not the
time to enter into this discussion, and he had only alluded to
feis subject, to shew the consistency of the right honourable
gentleman's argument, when applied to the case of La Vendee.
Butafter all, did the right honourable gentleman seriously ima
gine, that he had convinced the house that it was unnecessary
for feem to make great efforts ? He bad relied much upon the
declarations which had been made out of doors respecting this
tax : as far as fee public opinion accorded with the right honour
able, gentleman's views, so far he seemed inclined to treat it
with respect ; but he totally laid out of his consideration 'those
-sentiments which accompanied those declarations. Though, in
some instances, fee people bad expressed tlieir disapprobation
of feis tax, in its present state, without any of fee alterations
and modifications which it would be necessary to make, yet they
never went the length of the right honourable gentleman, and
•said, that no supplies ought at all to be raised ; on fee con
trary, in fee case of the borough of Southwark, they bad ex
pressed the strongest sense of the necessity of making great and
vigorous exertions for the public defence. Could feis be a sub
ject of doubt, after all the papers relative to the rupture of the
negociation had been laid before fee bouse, and above all, since
they had seen fee late proclamation of the directory?. Indeed,
he should feel ashamed if it could now become matter of argu
ment. If then it might be assumed, as aji indisputable proposrtionj
that great amd vigorous exertions were necessary at thef present
arduous crisis, the next point for- consideration was, ' whether a
large part of the supplies -of the year ought to be raised by the
mode now proposed, within the year; or whefeer the whole
should be. raised by fee old system of funding?: This was the
real question for consideration ; but, instead of discussing it,
fee gentlemen on the ofeer side had exerted all their abilities to
prove that we ought to make no efforts at all. They had never
9-3

?3p MR. PITT'S [Die. 14,
given any answer to the only important question, viz, if great
exertions were necessary, how were they to be made? In»
Stead of feis, they had only said, that a proppsal to depart frpm
the fupding system came wife a very bad grace from him, who
had funded se much. This could npt be considered as a very
strong argument ; apd he should have thpught, feat fee gentler
rnen, after so long an absence from their parliamentary duty,
would have dispovered some more efficacious mode pf reason*
ing, fean to say, *' Do not adopt a gopd measure, because you
ought to have adopted it sooner." Surely the house had a
right to expect, from a grave and experienced statesman, some?-
thing more fean a deplaration, that if any means could be de*
vised to raise a large proportion of the supplies within fee year,
and if feese means were in their nature unobjectionable, he
should not pppose them. This could not be considered as a
very great instance of condescension. However, fee principal
pbjectipn pf the right hopourable gentleman seemed tp be, tha$
those extraordinary means, eught pot to be resorted to now, when
a great and obvious necessity existed, because we had not em
ployed feem when np such pecessity did exist.
But gentlemen seemed to consider, feat, by adopting the pre
sent m°de of raising a part of fee supply, the system of funding
was to be given up, and fee present substituted in its room. If
gentlemen had been present in their places when this measure
was first proposed, feey would have knpwn that the funding
system was not given up; on fee contrary, he had proposed that
the larger part ef the supplies of the yearsheuld be raised byway
of loan. It was thought advisable, as fee funds had been sp
much increased, tp ease them, by procuring a large part pf fee
supplies in a different mpde ; therefore, so far from giving up fee
System pf funding, fee present plan was intended to relieve it
That this object, if it could be attained, would be niPst desir
able,, cculd. npt he questioned, even by fepsei \vhe d.isliked fee
present tax-
Haying said, feus much, he did not think it necessary to argue
¦feis point more at length, upon the present occasion. The point

rfSr7<J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 231
that called particularly for fee consideration of, the house was
feis; — assuming that it was necessary to raise a large sum. within
fee year, was the present plan, the most expedient, and fee
most likely to be effectual ? In considering this subject, the two
honourable gentlemen on the other side had argued very differ
ently. The first called it a- tax upon property ; fee other, a
general tax upon income. The latter was nearer the truth, but
neither of them was correct. With respect to fee honourable
gentleman who called this a tax uppn property, it was astonish-
itig that he should be so ill informed of what passed in feat
house, even though he was absent; as to state as argu'mehts
against this plan, the very topics which he (Mr. Pitt) had urged
iii order to obviate some objections which had been made to it.
The honourable gentleman had contended, that a tax upon pro
perty, supppsing it ppssible that the amount of fee property
could be ascertained, would not be a proper measure. In this
opinion, however, the henpurable gentleman differed from those
declarations out of doors against this tax, upon which so much
reliance had been placed on the ofeer side of the house. How
ever, the honourable gentleman had pushed this argument to a
greater length than he had done. He (Mr. Pitt) had said, that
if fee amount of every man's property could be ascertained, it
would be a most desirable thing to make the people contribute
to the public exigence in proportipn to their wealth. But there
existed ne means pf ascertaining the property pf individuals, ex
cept such as were ef a nature feat could not be resorted to. In
stead, therefore, of a tax upon property, this was what he had
Stated it to be, a tax upon general expenditure. In opening it to
the house, he had anticipated an objection which he thought
would be made, viz. that feis tax applied only to such income
as was iri expenditure. This was an inconvenience which it was
impossible to avoid, without having recourse to such a scrutiny
of property as must, in every point of view, be highly objec
tionable. That the present plan was in its nature imperfect he
was ready to admit, and had stated it to be so when he first in
troduced the subject; but he thought it fee best and most gene*

232 ME. PITT'S [Dec. M.
ral criterion feat could be found. Th* question then was, whe
feer this plan was so very imperfect, and so objectionable in
principle, feat it ought immediately to be rejected ; or whefeer,
after proper alteration and modification, it might not be of the
greatest public benefit ? The right honourable gentleman oppo
site to him had not considered this with his usual accuracy; for,
because this tax was calculated St seven millions, and feat it was
not to exceed a tenth part of' a person's income, be had calcu
lated the whole income of the. country at only seventy millions;
but the inaccuracy of feis calculation must be obvious tp the
right honourable gentleman, when he recollected, ferd though
feis tax never took more than one-tenth of the income, yet, in
many cases it look only the 120th part, and in some cases took
nothing. At all events, this observation was inapplicable, be
cause lie had never spoken of the general income of fee country,
but only so much of it as was in expenditure. Without dilating
more upon feis part of the subject, he should say a few words
upon what he considered as the leading objections to the mea
sure. The right honourable gentleman had made a division of the
different kinds of property, which appeared tp him to be incor-i
rect, inasniucb as it omitted one great source of income. The
right honourable gentleman's division was, income arising from
landed estates, from commeicial pursuits, and from property in
the funds. As to fee income derived from professional exertions,
the right honourable' gentleman had very properly classed it un
der the head of commercial gains. But he had qroitted one.great
source of income, viz. feat which was received as. the reward of
labour; and of the latter class many were exempted by the crite
rion now proposed. The right honourable gentleman had con
tended, feat feis would operate.as a tax upon funded property,
which always had been, and must ever be, considered as invio^
late. But the measure now proposed by no means tended tp
affect property in the funds. No description of income, whether
arisfng from landed estates, commercial pursuits, or funded pro
perty, was meant to be exempted from the operation, because j(

1797.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 233
was meant to attach upon expenditure in general. Where was
fee injustice of this? " Why," says fee right honourable gentle
man, " by taxing fee expenditure of a man whose income is de
rived from die funds, you do in fcct tax his property in fee
funds." If this was a valid objection, it ought not only to induce
fee house to reject this measure, but to repeal every tax that
ever was laid on; because it was impossible to suggest a tax
which would not ,be paid by people having money in the funds.
Every tax imposed upon consumption, of course must be de
frayed by people having property in the funds; but it was ab
surd to say that was a tax upon the funds. If feis objection was
never made to taxes which were in their nature perpetual, it ap
peared to him singular that it should now, for the first time, be
made to a tax which was merely temporary.
The next objection of the right honourable gentleman was, that
a. tax upon commercial income was not just; for, said he, a man's
landed property is his own, but fee income he derives from com
merce is partly derived from his Industry. This was not a time
to enter into a minute discussion of these arguments, but surely
fee right honourable gentleman did not mean to contend feat
commercial gains were not a fair object of taxation. Those gains1
were derived under the protection ofthe laws ofthe country, and
consequently ought to contribute proportionably.to support feem.
fie did not, however, mean to contend feat many distinctions
ought not to be made, and in fee committee modifications would
.undoubtedly be proposed. As to persons who employed great-
capitals, in proportion to feeir annual gains, they would be less
affected than persons of landed properly; but all that could be
inferred from this was, that it was a recommendation of the crt?
-terion. Perhaps this criterion, as far as it affected the lower
classes, did not make distinctions enough. It would be recol
lected, that the particular reason he assigned for making this tax
lower upon houses fean upon fee other articles was, that it should
pot fall too heavily upon that species of income arising from re
tail trade. The right honourable gentleman had next censpred
fee mode of appeal. given in feis case. Some alterations might

234 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 14,-,
also be made upon this subject ; but still he thought that mode
of correcting the operation of fee tax might be useful. The
right honourable gentleman himself had admitted, that ii might
with propriety be applied to landed property ; and, on the other
hand, he (Mr, Pitt) was willing to admit, feat as far as it re*
lated to the lower class of retail dealers, some modification was
necessary. These were fee general objections which had beeri
made to tbe plan, and he should now leave them to fee considera
tion of fee house, with the observations he had made upon feem.
He was aware that there were many who thought that, rather
than take this visible criterion of ascertaining property, it would
be better to lay a general tax upon property. Undoubtedly, if
they could find the means of taxing property equally, without com
pelling improper disclosure, it would be a most desirable object;
but as that could not be done without being open to stronger ob
jections than fee present plan, it became necessary that some
visible criterion should be found. If feat were fee case, could
any criterion be. found more general in its nature than the assess
ed taxes ? The persons immediately affected by this tax amounted
to 800,000, and through them extended to about 4,000,000 of
persons. By feis plan a great number of poor persons would be
wholly excluded, and above half ofthe number before-mentioned
Would contribute very little.
The committee upon this bill might, and he had no doubt
would, make many amendments in favour of shop-keepers; but
all this would be consistent wife fee principle of the bill. The'
committee might, if they feought proper, make an alteration in
the scale proposed, without any dereliction ofthe principle of the
bill. Many mitigations were, undoubtedly necessary ; but if fee
utmost inference that could be drawn from this was, that fee ex
emptions should be carried farther fean was proposed in the com
mittee of ways and means, how did that affect fee general prin
ciple of fee measure, when, they had the means of obviating in
tbe committee fee only objections feat had been made agaiuet it??
Without going now into feose details, which he wished to reserve
for a future period, he should only say, that if* it was admitted

1V97,] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 933
that great exertions ought to be made, and that a large part of
fee supplies ought to be raised within the year, and if the only
objection to this criterion was, feat it would bear hard upon
fee lower orders of retail dealers, . and it appeared to be within
their power to obviate this objection; then, upon what ground
could they hesitate, unless feey had changed their opinions ; un
less, instead of making preparations for war, they were deter-*
mined to begin by begging for peace from a haughty and insult*
ing enemy ? If feey were not determined to give up every means
of exertion, had feey any option but to go into a committee upon
feis bill, to remedy the inconveniencies feat might result from it,
if passed in its present shape ? What was fee conduct which the
gentlemen on fee other side wished the house to adopt? It was to
reject feis measure at once, and thereby to declare that they
would make pp efforts to raise the supplies within the year. If
the house adopted this advice, it would be proclaiming to France
and tp the world, feeir repentance for having dared to stand up
in defence of feeir laws, feeir religion, and of every thing feat
was valuable to them as Englishmen. It wpuld be humbling
themselves before a haughty adversary; and, when they had no
means of defence, imploring mercy and forgiveness from an enemy
from whom we had to expect neither.
Upon feese grounds, he hoped the house would read fee bill 4
second time, and let it go into a committee.
Tlie motion was agreed to, Ayes ........ 175
Noes  . 5Q
tnd the bill was ordere4 to be committed.

January 4, 1798,
0jt a motion for the t^rd reading of the bill for increasing the Assessed
Taxes, Mr. Pitt, at the close of the debate, (which had been adjourned from the
preceding day) rose and expressed himself as follows : —
After fee great length of time that has been consumed in fee
djebate, the house, I am sure, wjjl not be surprised if I should

SG« MR. PITT'S [Jan. I,
desire to avoid, as much as possible, fee vast mass of. extraneous
matter that has been brought forward on the present occasion,
and-select from the numerous topics that present themselves to
my view, such as bear directly On fee subject under our imme
diate consideration. Wife feis view I shall endeavour to guide
the attention of the house through the various irrelevant and
contradictory arguments feat have been used, and fix it more
exclusively on feose leading and practical points, which alone
can determine the question we are now called upon to decide. I
should have thought it, Sir, unnecessary to enter s^t any length
into feis argument, after the admissipn made by fee several gen
tlemen who most vehemently opposed feis measure, if I did not
find feat the principle feey conceded in name is afterwards recalled
in substance, and treated as a matter foreign to their considerat
tion, and wholly inapplicable to the case now before them. The
principle I allude to is this, whether^ in the present circumstances
of this country, feere is, or is not an occasion to make a great
and unexampled exertion to defeat the projects of fee enemy, and
secure our own national independence and honour. The affirma
tive of feis proposition has been uniformly admitted and openly
avowed : unless, therefore, the house, influenced by what has
been advanced in the courseof this night's debate, should think
proper expressly to retract that opinion, I have a right to take it
as fee fundamental point that will govern their determination.-
This is not an opinion hastily adopted, and lightly considered.
It is the language which, after full deliberation and inquiry, the
house, at the commencement of tbe session, presented at the
foot of fee throne. Such, at that time, was their opinion, and
fee facts on which it was founded have, in the interval which
has elapsed, been neither weakened nor denied. So far from
any thing having been advanced contrary ta this position, in the
course of this debate, fee right honourable gentleman himself*
has unequivocally admitted, feat great military and financial
,exertion is indispensable in the present situation of fee country,
v 'Mr. Jo*.

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES; 237
Now having advanced so much, it was natural to expect he
would disclose the nature of those exertions, the necessity of
which he did not deny ; and if he disapproved of the present mode
of raising so considerable a part of fee supplies within the year,
that he would point out how that end might be obtained, by
means less objectionable. The question, as now argued by thev
right honourable gentleman, is, whefeer, after a delay of six weeks
since tlie first agitation of this subject, and two months since the
issue of the negociation, from which period the necessity of the
exertions he admits must be dated; — whefeer, after such a delay,
all exertion should not be suspended on fee part of the country,
till tbe house should obtain fee dismission of his Majesty's pre
sent ministers, a radical parliamentary reform, and a total change
ef system. Such is the ground, if I followed the right honourr
able gentleman, and understood him right, on which he wishes
fee present question to be determined. In his opinion the guilt
of the present administration is so enormous, their general and.
particular misconduct so manifest and great, that all the facul
ties of government should be suspended till they are removed.
Their removal alone, however, will not do, and he has no hopes
of security without a radical reform in parliament, and a total
change of system; and, unless these latter points are conceded,
he professes that he will not take any share in any new admini
stration that may be formed. With a view of persuading tire
house to pursue these objects, much time and much eloquence
have been consumed, to convince them that they had a regular
constitutional right to withhold the supplies, till the grievances,
of which they might think proper to complain, were redressed.
But time and eloquence appear to me to be wholly misemployed-.
No one that I know, of ever doubled of the validity of feat doc
trine. The true question now is, according to the right honour-,
able gentleman's mode of reasoning, not whether feey have a
right under fee constitution of withholding supplies till griev
ances were redressed, but whether the house and country look
upon those things as grievances which the right honourable gen
tleman does; and whefeer they will make such an exercise of.

23* MR. PITT'S , V**. 4,
power in fee present situation of" fee country, to obtain a radical
parliamentary reform and total change of system, according to
his acceptation of feose expressions ? It becomes, therefore, of
great consequence to ascertain what that acceptation is; and if
any ambiguity or uncertainty exists from loose and indefinite ex-^
pressions, the true meaning will be found to arise no less from
fee colour and complexion of circumstances which accompany,
precede, and follow his professions, than logical distinctions and
fee context of words. Now I wish to' put it seriously to the
bouse, whether, notwithstanding fee explanations for the first
time given this night by the right honourable gentleman of fee
extent of his meaning in this respect, a very considerable portion
of uncertainty, as to their extent, does not yet remain, and whe
ther all the exertion he himself admits as necessary for the salva
tion of the country, is to be suspended till objects so general,
loose,' and indefinite, are obtained ? for such is the partial result
of all he has now advanced.
But to descend to the few particulars he has mentioned.— A
change of ministers, he says, is absolutely necessary before any
peace, consistent with fee welfare and security of the country,
can be expected. Yet how was this attempted to be proved, t
do not consider myself much indebted to fee right honourable
gentleman's candour in admitting, that at least ministers were
sincere in the last negociation for peace. No men, in or out of
fee house, could venture to entertain a doubt of a fact so plain
and manifest. The internal evidences of fee treaty itself, and
every circumstance by which it was attended, sets every suspi
cion on feat subject at defiance. The purity and zeal of minis
ters throughout the whole of their conduct on that occasion, is
established beyond the possibility of doubt. It is not now for
me to enter into the discussion how far in ] 79k and 1795, France,
was capable of preserving fee relations of peace and amity.
Every thing that the right honourable gentleman could urge on
this subject, was advanced when the facts of that question were
recent, and regularly before the house, which, after full enquiry
and deliberation, gave an opinion contrary to feat which he

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. *$$
maintained. Every step that ministers have taken, relative to
peace, has been submitted to parliamentary discussion, and is
fully before fee public : and I can assert wife confidence, that
tio man can reflect upon their conduct in that respect, or deny
feat feey have done every thing to obtain peace, short of sacri.
ficing the honour and welfare of the country. According to the
right honourable gentleman's own view of fee subject, it is a
singular mode of reasoning, to threaten ministers with dismis
sion, -that peace might be obtained, because they had not done
every thing in feeir power to obtain it before, though there is no
doubt they have since been, and were still disppsed sp to do.
The reasoning is still more curious if followed further. Suppose
the measure recommended by the right honourable gentleman
were adopted, is it likely that any new administration could suc
ceed in negociation wife fee enemy, after a considerable suspen*
sion of exertion and comparative weakness, when fee present ad
ministration, backed wife the whole strength ofthe country, and
having done every thing consistent wife their duty to oppose the
wrath of the enemy, had failed ? Who will undertake that, in
case of an appointment of a new administration, by means at least
injurious to our strength, the enemy will be inclined to give terms
of peace which they denied to the present ministers, when their
conduct was admitted by all to be such, as this new administra
tion could alone adopt ? What ground of probability is there to
expect such an event ? But if fee right honourable gentleman's
argument has any weight, it is at best ill-timed at present, and
shoujd have been argued two months ago, on the first termina
tion ofthe treaty.
The right honourable gentleman has attempted to draw a dis
tinction between the responsibility of those in office, and those
who are not so. In feis, however, I do not see any marks of
that impartiality which should equally guide both fee one and the
other. He seems to think, that, while he has a perfect right to
arraign the conduct of public men in office, he, being a private
member of parliament, is not answerable to any account. I cer
tainly know of no sanction that any man in office has, that should
%

240 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 4,
exempt him from animadversion on his conduct ; and as little"
am 1 acquainted with any exemption that private gentlemen may
have from reprehension, when their conduct is such as to deserve
it : justice, prudence, and expediency, as little exempt fee one
as the other. I therefore cannot but behold the right honoura
ble gentleman as amenable hi his Conduct as any other person,
whether I consider his character, in relation to domestic con
cerns at home, or fee situation of the enemy abroad. With spe
cious professions of humility, he has doubtless declared himself
a simple individual, and expressed a determination to abstain
from tbe risk and fatigue of public office. But what does -this
amount to ? It is not certain feat, thinking as many around
him do, the country can be saved by him alone. Thinking soj
I say, if a change of administration should take place, will they
not feel themselves bound to overcome his scruples, and insist,
as a matter of public duty, feat he should take upon him fee '
burden of office.? Nay, 1 put it to feem, whefeer feey would
not consider it as fee pride and glory of their lives, by any means
in tlieir power, to place him in the situation to which they think
his talents entitle him? and if feey think so, feey will, in so do
ing do no more than wh"at, according to their view of fee subject,
is rigrrf$vJki highly laudable in them to effect. Nevertheless
feose wheaRight differ from feem in that opinion, and, though ad
mitting the brilliancy and extent of the right honourable gentle
man's talents| feink feat the practical application of them is not
conducive to nie welfare of fee country— such persons must be
allowed to look to that event with repugnance and alarm. Upon
this subject I have no hesitation of declaring, feat were I obliged
to plead guilty to every other charge against my colleagues and
myself, or from any motive should wish to relinquish my present
station, yet, while I wish such a peace as is consistent with the
security and welfare of this kingdom, I should feel it -as abounden
and over-ruling duty, if the'right honourable gentleman had any
chance of succeeding me, to remain in office at any risk, and
with every sacrifice, in order to prevent an effect so fatal and
ruinous to the safety and consequence of this country, as the;

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 24il
gratification of fee wishes of him and his friends. I have yet to
learn what is fee nature of that confidence, which fee enemy are
to have in an administration suppoitedby feat right honourable
gentleman. I have on a former occasion said, that I do not envy
feose whose boast it is that they stand high in the confidence of
the enemy. It is maintained, that in case of a change of admn
nistration, the house and the country would have the most unli
mited confidence as to fee sincerity of the negociation for peace,
and if it could not be obtained on terms adequate to a just and,
reasonable expectation, that in such a case the war would be
continued wife incalculable advantage. Will those who think
in this way, attempt to deny feat fee right honourable gentleman
and all his friends have uniformly, since the commencement of
the war, maintained the cause of the enemy, at least so far as
to contend that they acted on fee defensive, and retained a right
of inflicting vengeance, and feat we were the aggressors ?
Throughout the whole course of the war feey have asserted fee
justice of the enemy's cause and the insufficiency of our resour
ces. How, in case of such men succeeding to offices, terms fa
vourable or just to this country are to be expected, or how, if
the war is to be continued, the enemy are to be convinced of the
energy ofthe kingdom and fee permanency of our means, I leave,
with 110 doubt of its decision, to fee prudence of fee house.
The next point of attack against his Majesty's ministers is their
general misconduct in respect to general constitutional doc
trines ; and then, feat feey are bad financial ministers, and in
competent to preserve the combination, which, as to the prose
cution of the war, they had so much relied upon. These points,
I must observe, which are wholly irrelevant to the present ques
tion, have repeatedly been discussed and decided in this house,
and may be decided again after this is determined, as feey have
been before. These I do not in the least consider myself bourid
to enter into at present, and if 1 did, fee decision, either one
, way or the other, would not affect this bill. Upon feese sub
jects, however, it is obvious that the strength of tbe right ho
nourable gentleman's arguments lay in feis : he says, you, fee
V01. 3. R

242 MR; PITT'S [3a#. 4,
administration of the country, are incompetent and ignorant;
you rely on foreign alliances; feese alliances desert you. You
grant subsidies, you guarantee loans; we told you this would
not secure you allies. You are fools, and we are wise. This I
believe is not a weak summary of his charge against feose he is
inclined to Gondemn in every act, and impeach the motives when
he cannot deny the effect. 1 askf however, and put to the re
collection of the house, whefeer those loans, subsidies, and al
liances, were ever maintained on any such principle as that it
was impossible to be deceived. In fee nature of the thing, no
independent state can have security against another, from want
of foresight and prudence. It is no imputation against our ally,
that another might not see so acutely its own true permanent
interest and safety. In fee case of our acting with greater wis
dom and resolution than others, we are not to let our regret at
feeir misconduct over-rule our own satisfaction in our own pru
dence and sagacity. Even to this very moment I do not regret
feose loans, subsidies, and alliances, of which the right ho
nourable gentleman complains.. They were entered into with
correct views of fee real and permanent interest of the country i
and though I could have wished that other powers had had a-
true sense of their own interest; yet as a matter of policy, I do
not regret the advantage we derived even- at fee expense at which
it was purchased.
When it is considered that the conduct of ministers. wife re--
spect to peace, was such as those who wish for a change them
selves approve, it is pretty certain that the real cause for their
retirement is nol that which is ostensibly assigned ; but whether
the motives be real or pretended, it can be no reason for post
poning the present bill, as whether the present administration1
continue, or yield their places to others, this bill, as a measure
essential to the security ofthe country from the menaces and de
signs of a rancorous enemy, would be equally expedient and ne
cessary. Suppose the right honourable gentleman was at fee
head of a new formed administration* would he tell the house
feat he would expect any success in his treaty, should fee na-

J *pif.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. y$
tion disarnii or be unprovided to continue the contest with vi
gour and effect ? Were he minister, fee same exertion would be
necessary, fee sariie question would revert, whether it was ex
pedient to raise seven of fee nineteen millions within the year.
Is it therefore fair, or generous, or manly, to' hear the possibility
of a change assigned as a cause for delaying a measure, which,
under every administration, would be equally necessary, and must
be equally made the subject of discussion ? There must be some
secret m'otive for this sudden exertion of the right honourable
gentleman. It was most probably to take advantage of what he
supposed fee public opinion, that he thus appeared again .in em
battled phalanx,- aiid leftthe hidden path of secret warfare* With
what other view would he otherwise bring into such a debate all
the inflammatory topics he has urged, and in a speech offeree
Or four hours, though attending, as he says, by the express)
commands of his constituents, scarce touch on fee subject which
he avowedly came forward to discuss ? Instead of watching fee
details and particular bearings of this bill, he adverts only to its
principle in fee most general terms, and did not eveb attend in
'felt stage in which alone, by means of regulations, he Could al
leviate those hardships of which his constituents complain. Far
from observing fee instructions he professed to obey, he enters
into the most foreign and dissuasive questions concerning fee
Origin and conduct of the War, in which as usual he decides in
favour of France, and against feis country, asnd in favour of
himself and his party, against tbe ministers in whom his Majesty
thought proper to confide. He wishes to irhpose on fee house
fee condition of putting off the discussion of the bill he was sent
here to discuss, in order to enforce that radical reform of par
liament and total change of system, oi which his constituents in
their instructions said nothing, and which if he thought it his
duty to urge, he should have felt himself bound to attend for that
purpose, without waiting for those injunctions which were fee oc<
tasion of his presence.
I for one should be glad to have a clear idea of what fee right
honourable gentleman means by this species of reform and
r 2

24* MR. PITT'S [Ja-s-. 4r
change. He has on former occasions expressed the same wishes,
but yet in a way more general. In the course of what he has?
said on this subject to night, we have at least fee satisfaction
of learning that he looks only to these changes through fee organ-
of parliament, which however he expects will not be effected by
fee power of his eloquence or fee force of his reasoning with
in/ but by fee influence of the public mind from without. The
precise plan of parliamentary reform of which he is the advocate,
is now for the first time disclosed, namely, that brought forward
last session by another honourable friend of his, not now in his
place*. Thus for a plan of parliamentary reform, which the
house had already discussed and rejected, and for ofeer particu
lar reformations, on which neither his constituents nor the public
had expressed any opinion at all, he wished the house to sus
pend and hang up all the means of public defence, in a crisis
of unexampled danger and difficulty. This mode of obtaining
his objects is certainly less mild and regular than fee one he pro
fessed himself attached to, and recommended with respect to par
liamentary reform ; for it tends to this — suspend your exertions,let
fee enemy come and make this change of system and reform the
price of self-defence ; — an expedient at least hazardons"and rash
under the. present circumstances of the country. If, to avoid
feis inference, the right honourable gentleman- should contend;
feat, by the influence of the public mind, he means fee opera
tion ofthe fair rational sense of the public mind on their repre
sentatives only, then he must admit that he has at last found
something more sympathetic between fee people and' their re
presentatives than he thinks it possible to discover in some
views of fee subject he occasionally takes, a consistent ground
of virtual and effective representation, even in fee present form
of parliament. If he means neither of these, but something else
different from both, but which he does' not think it fit and pru
dent at this moment explicitly to state, his views are then evi
dently open.to fee objection, on fee ground of ambiguity and ia-
* Mr. Grej..

im] PAR IAMENTARY SPEECHES. 24*
distinctness, which an honourable friend of mine* has said oc
casioned diffidence and alarm.
The right honourable gentleman has thought proper, on this
and several other occasions, to quote some words used by me in
reference to this subject. It is impossible to recollect particular
words used so long ago ; but I frankly admit that my views of
parliamentary reform were favourable to feat object, and that
I, on all occasions, expressed my "opinion with all fee warmth of
expression I could use: feese however must in common candour
be understood in reference to feat object as at that time under
stood, and not as to fee -change of meaning that expression has
undergone in later times. He has done me fee justice to say,
that he believes it was not I who declared " that no good govern
ment could subsist, nor bad one be opposed with safety, without
parliamentary reform." But whatever words I may have used,
or to whatever doctrines I may have subscribed, feey must be
understood in reference only to the ideas of parliamentary re
form then entertained, and I solemnly declare that whatever I
may have said or done on that subject, had no relation to the pre
sent prevailing systems of reformation, or any principle on which
they are founded. - My ideas then were as different from feose
systems then, as my language is now. I always, as is well
known to the right honourable gentleman, opposed every plan
of universal suffrage and > individual representation. All the
words I then used, all fee measures I then abetted, must be'con-
sidered as bearing a relation to the ideas and views of things then
entertained By the same rate the right honourable gentleman
must now he judged; the words he uses will be understood, unless '
otherwise restricted, by the ideas and views of things now receiv
ed; and surely he cannot deny that the expressions he has this
night made use of to signify his wishes, constitute the watch
words of a party out of doors, whose real meaning is well under-;
stood, and admits of no doubt. Is it not known that they cou-
plefeeir ideas with his words, and hail him as a convert to feejj
* Mr. Wilberforce.
k3

$i$ MR- PITT'S [Jan. i,
system, and a champion in their cause ? If indeed fee right hpr
nourable gentleman does mean something in a more limited and
rational sense, sure I am, he must be thankful for feat scrupu
lous vigilance and alarm feat wishes to distinguish his views of
£t radical reform in parliament from feose entertained by the c'orr
responding, society, expressing himself, as he accidentally does,
in precisely fee same- words which that body has thought proper
to adopt. It happens, however, that there is a farther coincidence
Subsisting between that body and the right honourable gentleman
than mere words. He has not only, they seerri to think, exalted,
like them, the representative government, but looks with a jea
lous eye to nobility and hereditary honours ; in short, disclaims
every principle of government but the representative' species,
This, I believe, is well known to be tlieir opinion of him, though
undoubtedly he will contend that they misconceive the meanifig
of his words, and that they do not imply the object they sup*
pose. Whatever may be his meaning on Other points, he has
now, however, fully explained the views lib entertains of parlia-
jnentary reform ; and I mu6t declare that I would' forego for ever
all prospect of reform, rather fean incur tlie risk of such ah one
as he wishes, by his own confession, may take place. What is
it he contends for ? No less fean that the whole elective fran*
iehise should be taken from those in whom it has long resided;
and transferred to all the householders in the kingdom. This is
the preliminary, nOt only to' all supply and exertioti, but to other
Changes hitherto unlimited by any desiguation of tlieir objects;
After concealing his opinion for fourteen years-, as to the specific.
- plan of reform, it now appears no -less than a total, change' of the
old system of election, and a substitute that will at on'ce demdr
lish all the benefits connected wjth it. Jn short he would take
from fee old electors all their rights, and invest therp without re*
serve in new,
The right honourable gentleman has further expressed asp a
general pi intiple, that he wishes to repress increasing power, and
encourage protecting liberty. In the first place, 1 wish to know
what he means by these terms. I here remark the same uncer-.

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 247
tainty and ambiguity that appear in most of his professions, and
which occasion no groundless degree of distrust and alarm in
feose who do not enter so readily into his views as others imme-<
diately around him. 1 wish to know what is this increasing
powfer he wishes to reprobate, and what feis protecting liberty
he means to encourage ? In another part of his speech he says,
feat fee authority of parliament, ought to be such as it was be
fore the American war. Here also I am at a loss to reach the
meaning of his words. I know of no liberty then possessed that is
riot now equally enjoyed. On professions so loose and indefinite,
it would be absurd to rely ; unless they are circum'scribed by dis
tinct meaning, they never can be adopted as a safe and rational'
ground of action.
Another commentator on the acts of government* has, in ad»
dition to the charges advanced by the right honourable gefitle-
rfian, insisted, feat an end shall be put to tlie possibility of mak
ing a breach' in the appropriation act. This charge is not now
for the first time brought forward. It was fully and regularly-
discussed on a former occasion, when first advanced; and how
did it turn out ? — that the appropriation act had not been violat
ed, but that, under particular tii'cumstances, fee form had been
departed from to preserve its spirit. The same may be observed'
with respect to the charges advanced relative to barracks, and'
the laws concerning persous sent out of the kingdom; the right
of assembling, petitioning; and all the other instances advanced'
as matters of criminal charges against the administration of go-r
v'ernraent by his Majesty's present miiiisters, which at this late
Hour it will hardly be expected that I have strength' sufficient
minutely to examine' and' answer. The sum total'of these ob^
jections amounts to this — that the house should at once repeal
all those wise precautions and measures Which, after atl anxious
view' to fee particular circumstances of the times, and an ade
quate discussion of each particular, feey had thought proper to
enact, riot only with fee consent of a' vast majority of their own
* Mr; Sheridan,
It 4

248 MR. PITT'S- [Jan. 4,
body, but with feat of at least nine-tenths of the people out of
doors. Is the bouse and country prepared for such sacrifices,
such sweeping preliminaries ?
The honourable gentleman objects also to the conduct of -mi
nisters with respect to peerages. Here, too, he is, as usual,
general and indistinct. What is it_he means ? Does he intend
to say fee prerogative of fee crown to create peers should be ex
tinguished ? How does he limit his objections ? What excep
tions are they feaj, he makes ? Does he mean that no vacancies
should be filled up, that he may supply large arrears when he
comes into power, in the way formerly used, when, as he says,
" peerage was given as an honour." Till particulars are men-,
tioned, it is impossible to reply to such vague charges, which
rather impeach the constitution than criminate the ministers.
These, however, are the principal allegations, for which it is con
tended feat ministers' deserve to be dismissed from feeir offices,
in order that others more competent to forward the national in-
interests should serve fee public jn feeir stead.
If we pass ihe bill, the right honourable gentleman says feat
we shall not be considered as the representatives of fee people,
intimating thereby some doubt, at least, that we are not now
fee substantial and virtual representatives of that body. How
does he make that assertion good ? Because, he says, large
meetings of the people haye expressed feeir disapprobation ofthe
bill ; and therefore, if we do not adopt their opinions, he infers
we have no sympathy with them, and in no sense what
ever can be called their representatives. In fee first place, I
must observe, that these meetings were only held in fee metro
polis ; that in other parts of fee kingdom no disapprobation has
been expressed, and feat, even in fee metropolis itself, the op
position has a good deal subsided since the modifications, which
have removed the principal causes of objection. ' In the next
place, I shall never agree feat feis house, as the representatives
qf the people, are bound to bend to every partial and unsettled
ppiuion of feat body. I mean not to deny that we should give
due weight to the influence of public opinion ; but it never was

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 249
fee principle of the constitution, that the representatives Of the
people should shift with every breath of popular desire. Nothing
couldbe more inconsistent with true Wisdom and public utility,
than that the legislators should be influenced by every fleeting and
partial expression of the public will. How easy was it in the
present ease, by misrepresentation, and an imperfect view of the
bill in its operation, to raise in the first instance a popular cla
mour against it ! A general disinclination towards it appeared
in the public meetings within fee metropolis; but no sooner was
the subject fully understood, and its particular hardships re
moved, fean it was regarded in a very different light, as appeared
by the proceedings of the common-hall in the city, and other
parts. The gentlemen opposite to' me are ready enough, on all
occasions, not only to condemn the conduct of his Majesty's
ministers, but also to make fee public a party to feeir cause. I
have not only a right to consider them as prejudiced in this re
spect, but, from frequent experience, erroneous also ; for in
mapy cases where feey have as loudly maintained the public
opinion was wife them, on a fair enquiry, where occasion offered,
we have found fee fact to be directly the reverse. Is it in the
nature of things, feat a heavy and general tax can, in the first
instance, be popular? And, on the contrary, it ever must be
the easiest of all things, by artifice and misrepresentation, to
raise a clamour against any such measure on its first breaking
upon the public mind. It is hardly possible for such a tax to be
popular and cheerfully received. All taxes are necessarily hard
ships, and must be submitted to, not from pleasure, but a sense
of public duty: and I hope with confidence that this tax will be
so received by the good sense and fortitude, of the people ; and
that, when it comes to be explained and amended, they will sub
mit to the sacrifices it enjoins, as a measure of urgent necessity,
under circumstances of the most severe trial that this nation
ever experienced. It does not, however, enter into my ideas of
public duty, feat the legislature should consult fee popular opi-s
niou at the expense of public safety.

25t> MR. PITT'S [Jan. *,
There was one part ofthe right'bononrable gentleman's speech
feat I am impelled to notice, from fee extraordinary request it
contained. He admitted fee great use of unanimity, and allowed,
ttiaf in feis critical period in particular it was highly desirable.
The mode, however, in which he means to obtain it is, in my
opinion, somewhat singular. He says, we the minority conceiv
ing ourselves- right, will not yield1 to you, the majority, but, as
tlnanimity is desirable, you should undoubtedly come over to
our opinion. So that the majority are feus called upon at once
to forego feeir opinions, though adopted after long and frequent
debate, and to tread back all theirsteps, and admit- themselves1
to be Wrong; although they knew themselves to be right ! This^
was fee reasonable request his arguments conveyed; and we
Were told feat a zealous unanimity was to be expected on no
other terms. In like manner he requires us to postpone the bill
Indefinitely, though arising from urgent necessity, and calculated
for security and defence, until he shall in his good time return,
to his parliamentary duty, and, as occasion' Suits, unfold trjC'Our
view, for separate discussion, all the parts of that radical change
n> our system which he projects;.
As tothe principles of individual conduct in this bouse; it is
not now a general question of how far- a member is authorised
to secede from his attendance; but, iir my opinion, that virtual
Representation, of which the right honourable gentleman is so
fond, cannot be more completely violated than by a dereliction
of duty, particularly in a moment of imminent danger to the
country. And' this' ib doubtless aggravated if it should be don*
with a view of depreciating the body of which lie is a member,
and to alienate the affections of the people from it. I can hardly
conceive how a man can act in grosser violation of' his- duty as a
member of parliament, than by such a conduct. Much of the
fact, in such a case, must be collected from attendant-circum
stance!!. I shall not now inquire by what motives those gentle-i
men acted (Mr. Burke' arid'others), alluded to by the right ho
nourable gentleman, who seceded' in fee American/war; but J

m$.l PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 251
recollect feat his own secession was announced after fee motion
made by an honourable gentleman* for parliamentary reform; and
feat, in the course of that debate, fee right honourable gentle
man said, feat, unless fee measures were adopted, the house
would not be any longer intitled to the respect of the people out
of doors. As to the general principle, nothing can be more cer
tain fean feat it is a violation of duty to desert a post committed
to one's charge, and that it increases, in exact proportion to the
danger of those for whom we undertake the charge. Now it did
so happen, that the right honourable gentleman could not, in his
whole political career, have chosen a moment of secession more
encompassed with danger than fee one in which he actually did
secede. The motive, therefore, is at best suspicious, and de
clining to attend under such circumstances led at least to in
quiry, whether by keeping away he sought opportunities to effect
feat, by inflaming fee people without these walls, which no ex
ertion of his talents could achieve within. He retired just as
fee rancour of our enemy became most inveterate, and exclur
sively directed to feis country, and when the manifestation of their
malice called forth fee spirit aud zeal of all classes to support our
national independence and honour. Just at this juncture it was
feat fee right honourable gentleman thought proper to retire.
On what ground js it feat gentlemen oppose this bill ?
Do they deny fee danger that surrounds us ? Do they main
tain that exertion is not necessary ? feat it can be sus
pended with safety ? No ; feey do not attempt to do either ;
but, as the means of obtaining their own objects, they are will
ing to risk fee honour, welfare, and existence of fee country.
The right honourable gentleman had asserted his right to secede
on his own motives of expediency, and, of course, those who
surround him will not object if I take feeir justification on fee
same principle; but thp right honourable gentleman, it seems;
retains his opinion of that expediency, and only now appears at
fee particular injunction of his constituents to defend feeir local
interest. How comes it, then, that he appears so surrounded
» Mr. Grey,

252 MR. PITT'S [Jan. t,
wife friends,, who, adopting his principle of secession, have not,
in the desire of feeir constituents, the same motive for his par
ticular exception ? Can any thing shew in a stronger light the
blind acquiescence of party zeal, when, in defiance of every
avowed principle of their public' conduct, feey nowattend'to add
to the splendour of their leader's entry ?
There is one point in the constitution of this country, in which
difference of opinion arises, namely, concerning the instructions
of constituents to feeir representatives. Some think themselves
bound to obey them, whatever feeir individual opinion may be
on the subject. Others thinking those instructions intitled to
their respect, yet follow the dictates of their own consciences.
Of this latter class the right honourable gentleman professes
himself to be. According, therefore, to his own admission, he
now attends in spite of his own opinion of fee expediency of
secession, to discuss the local interest of his constituents. He,
nevertheless, declined attending in feat stage of the bill in which
alone he could be of service in that particular, by proposing re
liefs for the particular hardships his constituents might'sustain ;
and now, without noticing the modifications made, he objects
to other particulars, without suggesting or moving any remedy !.
He came here to oppose its local and partial effect, yet indulges
only in a general and indiscriminate opposition to it ; and pro
fessing to come for the express purpose of discussing feis bill, he
introduces every topic that has been decided , during the long
period of his absence ! The house must therefore decide in what
spirit, and for what real purpose he now appears. Nothing
feat he has said can i be understood as touching in any degree
the question now before us. He may, indeed, be said to re
proach his Majesty's ministers, but can wife no propriety be
said to speak to the subject for which his constituents directed
him to attend.
With respect to many objections urged in the course of the de
bate, 1 must say, in general, feat if gentlemen had attended in
fee proper stage of the bill, they would have heard them an-,
swered. It is not that the objections are unanswerable, but feey
6

,79?.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. tot
have not heard the answers that have been given, by neglecting
to attend when it was feeir duty to be present. Upon the ques
tion of a great and unusual exertion, no doubt is made; all
agree that is indispensable. Now, if feis is to be made, the
next inquiry is, in what manner is it to be done ? From whence
arises this secondary, question, whefeer it is to be done in fee
usual mode of raising supplies, or by raising a considerable pro
portion of fee sum requisite for fee current services within fee
year? Upon this latter question fee right honourable gen
tleman is dubious ; his honourable friend* thinks that a sum
should be raised by a great exertion within the year. There
is one objection to tlie present plan not easy to comprehend,
namely, that by feis mode of exertion I only relieve the stocks
so as to affect a few particular friends of ministers ; for the old
stockholders, who bought in before the war, it is said, cannot
be hurt, inasmuch as feey manifest an intention of retaining
feeir capital and receive the same interest ; therefore no depre
ciation of the funds can affect them. This, however, is a very
fallacious and defective view of fee subject; for property, fee
nature of which is transferable, must always depend on the va
lue of that transfer? Is it nothing to prevent fee depreciation
of SOC^OOOjOOOi. in capital, or can that be said to affect only a
few particular friends of a minister ? If further loans are to be
madefor the public service, is it of no consequence whefeer the
funds are at 40 or 48 per cent ? Does it make no difference
whefeer money is borrowed for the public at 4, 5, or 6 per cent?
Has fee price of stocks no effect on commerce and agriculture,
if they fall below a certain point ? Acccording to feis plan, it
is not property that is, directly taxed, but expenditure is made
the criterion of income in its application. I admit that some
inequalities will be found ; but so feere must in every plan of
raising a considerablesum within fee year, and this only forms
an objection td the plan in case it can be shewn feat the same
sum can be raised by means less partial and irregular. There
have been instances of large sums raised within the year, hu£
* Mr, Sheridan.

ZSi MR. PITTS {March 27^
In no instance' by means less liable to the objection of irre
gularity. On the whole, the house will decide whether they will, under
the. present circumstances of fee Country,- make a great and un^
usual exertion to resist fee enemy, or whether, on the argu
ments feey have heard, they will suspend all defensive prteau*
tions, and leave fee country open to fee ruinous projects of an
insolent and overbearing enemy. Notwithstanding the right ho
nourable gentleman has intimated His intention to persevere in
his retirement, I leave this question to the house, in full confi
dence that they will decide on this, and on every other occasion^
in such a way as most effectually to support the independence and
permanent interest of the country.
The House divided, and the queslion for the third reading of the till paasei
in the affirmative ; Ayes....  196
Noes........ 7%

March 0,7, 179S.
Ma. Dujjbas, in pursuance of a former notice, this day roovecf, "Trraj!
leave be given to bring in a bill to enable his Majesty more effectually Uf
provide for the security and defence of these realms ; and to indemnify pet-
sons vJho may suffer injury in their property by the operation of Such mea
sures." Mn. Pitt rose in reply to Various speakers' Who had preceded him in the
debate : — -
Sir, I feel myself called upon to express my astonishment at*
the language thrown out to night by the honourable gentleman*
on fee other side of tbe house against my honourable friend f near
me. I have no difficulty in saying, feat it is the most unpro
voked and unwarrantable attack I have ever heard made by one
gentleman upon another. With respect to myself, I cari easily
account for what my honourable friend has said :¦ the sentiments
which he has expressed have been unquestionably dictated by
* Mr Tierney. t Mr. Wilberforce.

119S.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES- 253
the purest and most patriotic motives. He expressed his belief.
that the great body of the people .of this couutry were impatient
to step forward, and carry into execution those plans which the
wisdom of fee legislature might adopt for the more effectual pro
tection and safety of the kingdom ; and on that ground he was
desirous feat any salutary plans or systems of defence, which
might be proposed, should be received wife unanimity, and con-*
firmed with fee most marked and decided approbation of every
member, for, in that most essential point, all are equally con
cerned. It is therefore rather extraordinary, because my ho
nourable friend complained that certain members did not give
their hearty support to fee measures proposed to be carried into
execution, wife respect to fee defence of fee country, that the
honourable gentleman on fee other side of the house should get
up and make, a direct and violent attack against my honourable
friend, as if fee honourable gentleman was convinced that the
insinuation had been thrown out against himself. What it is
that has so unexpectedly kindled the flame of resentment in fee'
honourable gentleman's breast, and raised his passions to this;
-Aggression, I am at a loss to conjecture : but I must ask/ has
my honourable friend had no cause for throwing out any blame'
against certain persons this day ? Has he been furnished with
ao ground for delivering his sentiments in the way which he has
thought proper to adopt?
The honourable general* has certainly not been so warm in
the important cause of fee defence of the country as my honour
able friend, and, I am confident, many others may have wished i
for though he has- not objected to the plan now. under discussion,
©ne may, with great consistency, suppose, that his opinion' in
favour of it is too lukewarm. The honourable -general has said,
that the operation of fee plan ought to be delayed, and that has
been considered as a just sentiment by one who expressed his-
conviction feat it ought not to be delayed at all. With respect
to the honourable general's opinion as to fee exact manner of
, » General: Tarleton.

25^ MR. PITT'S [March 27,
defending the country, or feat the force of fee kingdom should
be collected and applied to the protection of the great towns, I
will not undertake to discuss that point at present; but if he
seriously entertains that opinion, it clearly forms in my mind an
¦ additional argument why we should be more eager and more san
guine in the adoption of the plan, and therefore we cannot be
surprised,1 that my honourable friend has been induced, con
necting such sentiments with the nature ofthe system of defence '
proposed, to consider him as not sufficiently zealous in pro
moting the measure. The honourable general has alluded to
fee impracticability of driving away from fee coasts the cattle of
the farmers. I did not, however, understand from him, that we
ought not to drive away the cattle in case of an invasion ; but if
he meant to say, that it should be done soon, I am the more
surprised that he should entertain an opinion of that kind, be
cause from his experience, as a military man, he ought to have
known, that a measure of that peculiar nature is always expedi
ent, and even necessary.
As to what has been thrown out by an honourable gentleman*
on the subject of conciliation with respect to Ireland, and the
reference which he has thought proper to make in his observa
tions on feat topic to the present situation of Switzerland, I can
not help remarking, that the allusion is one of fee strangest
that I have ever heard made ; and my honourable friend might
have been well surprised at the inference which the honourable
gentleman drew from it, because the inference ought, in fact, to
be directly the reverse of fee conclusion which the honourable
gentleman took so much pains to establish. The same honour
able gentleman has reprobated, in the most pointed and'unqua-
lified terms, the present system of coercion which unfortunately
has become necessary for Ireland, and has compared the state of
this country wife that in which Switzerland has been hitherto
placed. He has endeavoured to shew that the want of unani
mity among fee people of that confederacy, has produced thoss
» Mr. Ni'chollj.

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 257
misfortuties in which they are at present involved, and has thus
laboured' to prove feat similar calamities impend over feis
country. But, Sir, the honourable gentleman should know,
that fee British parliament and fee British government, during
fee whole of his present Majesty's reign, so far as they had the
power of interfering in the affairs of Ireland, have shewn every
indulgence, and granted every possible favour to feat country.
He should know, that nothing has been omitted on feeir part,
and that no exertion has been wanting to extend the commerce,
and secure fee rights, privileges, and happiness of that kingdom,
Conciliation is now become a favourite word ; but I beg leave
to say, that the word conciliation, in the present crisis of pub
lic affairs, is both misunderstood and misapplied. Does fee ho
nourable gentleman mean, by conciliation to Ireland, that we
sliould make every concession and every sacrifice to traitors and
rebels, to men who are industriously propagating the most dan
gerous principles, engrafting upon fee minds of the people the
most destructive doctrines, wantonly seducing and deluding fee *
-ignorant multitude, encouraging the most criminal correspond
ence with the enemy, exciting the commission of treason in Ire
land, under fee speciouspretence of parliamentary reform, and
forming, in conjunction and co-operation with the professed ene
my of alt liberty, morality, and social happiness, plans for sepa
rating feat country from Great Britain, and for converting Ire
land into a Jacobinical republic, under the wing and protection
of republican France ? Are we to conciliate men whose machi
nations go not merely to the subversion of their legitimate go
vernment, but to the diffusion of every horror feat anarchy caii
produce ? Are we to conciliate men with arms in feeir hands,
ready to plunge feem into the hearts of those who differ from
them in political opinion ; — men who are eagerly watching for an
opportunity to overturn fee whole fabric of feeir constitution,
and to crush their countrymen wife its ruins ? Are we to with
hold from the peaceable and loyal inhabitants of Ireland that
protection without which there is no security for their lives and"
vol. nr. s

258 MR. PITT'S [March 27",
jproperty ? No ! The only measure of safety we can adopt is a
vigorous system of opposition to those who would completely de
stroy fee country ; while on the other hand, we are irresistibly
called upon to give a manly'and firm support to those who would
preserve for themselves and their posterity those great and ines
timable blessings which they now enjoy !
Since an allusion has been made to Switzerland, I think it
necessary to. observe, feat her present calamities have been pro
duced by the adoption of measures directly contrary to feose
which I have just mentioned. She unfortunately gave way at an
early period of fee war, to the fatal influence of French democracy.
She afterwards consented to new model her government, and en
deavoured, but in vain, to appease the enemy. Her condescension
was ineffectual— her concessions were disregarded ; her attempt
at conciliation was fruitless. The enemy was regardless of every
concession, and intent alone upon gratifying the imperious calls
of unbounded ambition. But if the Swiss had from fee begin
ning pursued a manly and decided line of conduct ; if they had
opposed vigorous pleasures to fee destructive principles of France,
and kept themselves in a state of independence and strict neu
trality, they would, 1 believe, be at this moment as free as any
other nation ; though 1 still sincerely hope their resistance is not
too late. >If, therefore, any inference with respect to fee present
siiuation of feis country is drawn from the misfortunes of Switzer
land, the example of fee miseries which she has suffered in
consequence of her timidity surely ought to weigh with us ; the
patriotic heroism and gallant ardour now displayed by her brave
inhabitants ought to animate us to the most vigorous exertions,
and convince us, since we behold the extraordinary efforts of
which a nation is capable, even with all thatsupineness into which
,she has been betrayed, and reduced as she is -to her last sirug-
gle, that we have every thing to hope from our perseveiance,
firmness, and unanimity. I trust, Sir, that the example of that
brave, but unhappy people^ .will animate feis country to vigorous
and necessary exertions. Let us not, by imitating tlieir former

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 259
' conduct, run into fee danger in which feey have involved them
selves, and subject ourselves to incur those misfortunes which
feey now experience.
Leave was given to bring in the bill ; and it was accordingly presented,
and ordered to be read a second time the next day.

April Q,, 1798.
Redemption ofthe Land-Tax — The Hpuse having resolved itself into
a committee of the whole House, Mr. Hobart in the chair,
Mr. Pitt rose and spoke in substance as follows :
The subject which I am now about to submit to the commit
tee, has of late excited considerable attention, and given rise to
considerable inquiry. As fee ultimate judgment which the com
mittee will form upon it, must depend upon fee consideration of
a great variety of details, it is not my intention to call upon you
for any decision to-day. I trust, however, that fee principle
upon which the measure is founded, only requires to be very
shortly stated, in order to engage your attention, and to recom
mend itself to your notice. That, in fee present situation ofthe
country, every measure which tends to invigorate public credit,
which will facilitate the means of supporting that struggle into
which we were driven for our necessary defence, and which has
been prolonged by the obstinate ambition of fee enemy ; that
every measure which will furnish fresh resources to animate the
courage'of the nation, and to enable us to maintain that character
which Englishmen have ever displayed, has a fair claim to the
favour of the legislature, I am warranted to pronounce, from the
experience of the present session, the unanimity you have "shewn
upon former occasions, and fee recent exertions you have made
for the public defence. When I recollect, then, fee temper which
parliament has uniformly manifested, 1 am sensible that it is
needless to say any thing in recommendation of the principle, pro
vided fee measure itself be practicable. The leading object of
s 2

2(50 ME. PITT'S -[April 2,
fee plan which I shall have the honour to propose, is to absorb
a preat quantity of stock, to transfer a considerable portion of
the funded security into landed security, and, by fee redemption of
fee present land-tax, to purchase a quantity of stock more than
equivalent to the amount of the tax. That tax will be made appli
cable in the same manner as at present, but fee proportion of
stock it will purchase will be one fifth larger, presenting at once
a considerable pecuniary gain to the public, and an advantage
to the individual by whom fee redemption shall be made. The
chief recommendation of the plan, however, is, that it will dimi
nish the capital stock, and remove that which presses more se
verely upon us than any inconvenience with which our situatioa
is attended. It is a truth" now universally felt, a truth which
the enemy haye acknowledged, and which faction itself will not
venture to deny, that even in this stage of fee war, the state of
every part of our trade, our industry, and revenue, is astonishing
and proud for this country; that our general capitar"and wealth is
greater than they were even at its. commencement ; feat our com
merce, so far from having experienced, a diminution as in other
wars, has greatly increased ; feat our industry and manufac
tures, subject to feose local fluctuations which are inseparable-
from a system so extended and diversified, have sensibly ad
vanced; and that, on a general view, our situation exhibits eve
ry symptom of internal wealth, that we are richer," that we pos
sess^ greater command of capital than this country ever enjoyed
at, any former period. It is singular too, that under the de
preciation which the funds have experienced, the price of land
has maintained itself above the average of former wars, and
equal to the price in times of peace ; very little indeed below the
unexampled state of a few years preceding the war.
I am aware that no argument is required to demonstrate the
necessity of great exertion in the circumstances in which we
are now placed. You have already expressed your opinion of
feat necessity, and have shewn your readiness to employ our
resources. All then that- is wanting is judgment and discrimina
tion in the" mode of calling' them iiato action.' If there be any
3

nos.} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 2fjl
chance of diminishing fee capital of the funded debt, which is
fee only pressure by which our efforts are embarrassed, fee mea
sure, by which it is to be effected, is founded upon clear and
substantial principles of policy. This is a principle upon which
fee house has acted in the course of fee present session. Upon
feis principle you felt fee expediency of making an extraordinary
exertion to raise, within fee year, a considerable part of the
supplies^ It is a further satisfaction for us to know, that the energy
ofthe measure has been fully proved ; feat though difficult in de
tail, though encountered^by considerable opposition on its appear
ance, and many obstacles in its progress, its advantages have been
recognised by the country. Though necessary to qualify it by many
modifications, which diminished the full effect it was intended to
have, yet fee voluntary zeal of the country has borne testimony to
fee principle; and the contributions with which the patriotism of
individuals has come forward for fee public defence, furnishes fee
best proof, feat in this measure, fee legislature was in unison
with fee sentiments of fee people. From what I have heard, fee
objection to the measure of increasing fee assessed taxes has
been, that it did not go far enough ; and commercial men have
declared, feat it did not embrace sufficiently that species of pro
perty of which feey are possessed. Whatever may be the deci
sion of fee bouse, as to the principle of the plan which I am about
to propose, I am sure feat any measures which tend to give effect
to the same object, which will combine an annual saving with
other collateral advantages, which, without imposing any new
burdens upon fee public, will be attended with considerable be
nefit tp the nation as well as individuals, cannot fail to be re
ceived with the highest favour by feis house, and to secure the
approbation of the country. /
In stating the principle upon which fee plan proceeds, I am
aware feat I have claimed a great deal of merit to the measure:
in this, however, I claim none from the proposal. The principle
itself possesses feat recommendation which usually belongs to
good principles, that it is so simple that the advantages which
s 3

262 MR. PITT'S [April 2,
are produced by its effects do not necessarily suppose a great
share of merit in the proposer.
The amopnt of fee present land-tax is about 2,000,000/. This
sum has been annually granted by parliament for a century past,
and has been levied at the same rate in different districts. The
repartition which was originally made has continued so long, and
fee sum of 4s. in the pound for so considerable a period has ne
ver been exceeded, that it will be readily acknowledged that
this sum ought not to be diminished, at least till many other bur
dens which weigh more heavily upon the public have been taken
pff. Taking this state then as that upon which the present land-
tax is raised, it is proposed, by changing fee security of a part
ofthe funded capital into landed security, to cover the two mil
lions of existing land-tax by ,two millions four hundred thousand
of dividends. By this measure it is evident that, upon the sup
position feat the whole of fee land-tax were to be redeemed, the
public would gain 4-00, 000£. The terms upon which the purchase
is intended to be made, while feey produce feis benefit to the
public, will present that advantage to fee land owners, which
¦will render it eligible for them to redeem, and tempt feem to give
full effect to the measure. Eighty millions would thus be taken
out of the market, and the public credit, relieved by so great a
pressure, would be proportionably strengthened. Having stated
this brief outline, I shall advert to a few of the objections against
the measure, which have yet come to my knowledge.
It is obvious that the first step necessarily involved in fee
measure is to render the present land-tax perpetual, universally
redeemable, and, where not redeemed, always subject to redemp*
tion according tp certain regulations. There is one objection
which at once suggests itself, and to which a very satisfactory
answer occurs. I mean the objection that may be made on con
stitutional grounds. It may be said that, to render a grant
¦which is now annual, perpetual, is to remove the constitutional
checks of parliament over the public expense, and to render per-j
petual what is now voted as an annual supply. I do not deny

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 263
feat fee adoption ofthe present measure would create some al
teration, but fee objection upon the constitutional ground is very
easily removed. Nothing can be more easy fean to place under
the annual controul of parliament funds that are at present per
manent, equivalent to those which are taken away by feis mea
sure. Certain branches of the consolidated fund may be made
annual, even to a greater amount than two millions of land-tax.
This would answer every purpose of constitutional controul.
Ministers would not then have it in their power to apply money
without consent of parliament more than before. It is my inten
tion, therefore, to move a particular resolution to obviate this
objection. Such funds as parliament may judge most expedient
for the purpose of controul may be selected and submitted to
annual vote in the same manner as fee land-tax, and instead of
two millions, the sum may be augmented to the full amount of the
dividends which will be taken out of fee market. Parliament
will thus have fee annual controul of 2,400,000/. By feis means
it will so happen that the constitutional check of feis house will
for some years be more, and never will be less, fean it was before.
A uofeer objection urged by some is, feat from the present re
partition to perpetuate the existing land-tax would be to perpe
tuate an inequality which is so great as to form no inconsiderable
abuse. They say, that if the tax were equalized, they would
have no objection to render it perpetual. Let us consider this
objection more closely and attentively. Since the revolution,
especially during the latter part which has succeeded, it has ne
ver been in contemplation to equalize the land-tax by a new re
partition according to the real amount of property, and the ability
of different districts) We know feat in this house, though tbe
vote for the land-tax had the undoubted right to adopt a new
repartition, no such proposition was ever made. With the ex
perience of a century before us, then, if we have seen no such
attempt ever made, is it more likely that it would be corrected
even were the vote to be annual, than if fee grant were made
perpetual ?
I do not now argue whether it would have been right to revise
S 4

•Mi' MR. PITT'S [April 2,
fee repartition at present -established. I am ready to admit that
I consider it to have been an original defect of fee present plan of
repartition, that no periodical revision was fixed. I think that
it would have been wise to have made such a provision, and that
it would have been happy for the country had it been done. Two
important guards would be necessary ; to prevent the inequality
from being too great, and at fee same time not to discourage im
provement. That principle, however, not being at first recogr
nised, and property having been since transferred without any at
tention to it, would it now be wise, just, or popular, to make- a
new valuation ? I think not. If so many years experience has
shewn feat no inclination to establish a different repartition pre
vailed, ought we to allow much weight to the objection, feat tq
perpetuate fee tax would be to perpetuate the inequality ?
I have likewise heard, that it has been objected that feis very
measure would tend to introduce an equal repartition. It ought
not to be expected that these opposite objections will come from
fee same quarter, and feat a grievance will be felt both ways. It
does happen, however, that the same mind embraces opposite
and contradictory objections. Those who are determined to ob
ject to every thing, may continue to bring forward in a regular
opposition arguments against a measure which do not proceed
upon fee same principle. On fee present occasion, however, I
do not expect that this mode of attack will be employed ; at least
I do not anticipate such a mode of opposition from any of those
I now see beforevme. The question, then, is, does the present
measure give any new facility for fee introduction of a general
land-tax ? If the measure did give any new facility for employing
fee substantial resources of the country, and deriving additional
means of strength witliout distressing the people, I should be
more disposed to claim it as a recommendation, than to consider
it as a defect. In times like fee present, whatever supplies «s
with fee means of calling .into action fee real resources of the
country, and giving new energy to the contest we maintain,
would deserve the cordial support of every man who is' a friend
to the happiness and prosperity of fee country, and in aparticu-

1798,] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 265
Jar manner of those who would be the greatest sufferers, if the
hostile designs of the enemy were to succeed.
The measure to be proposed to you, however, possesses no
such recommendation. It leaves fee question of a more equal
repartition of the land-tax precisely where it found it. Parlia
ment now has fee undoubted right to raise more than four shil
lings in the pound on the land ; and what greater authority would
it acquire were the present redeemed ? If the whole were to be
redeemed, for it would be sanguine to suppose that the whole
will be redeemed within a few years by fee owners, the only thing
pecessary to be provided as expressly as any legislative provision
can guard, is, that if ever a new land-tax is imposed, it -shall not
be imposed upon those who have redeemed in any different pro
portion from that on those who have not redeemed. It would
be necessary to provide feat fee amount of what may have been
redeemed should be deducted from any new impost. It appears
to me that such a provision would secure those who shall take the
benefit of redemption as much from any additional charge in
future on that account, as those who had not bought up their
land-tax at all. This, then, appears a sufficient answer to the
general objections which have beensuggested against the mea
sure. As to fee various details which it embraces, it would be
idle to enter into any minute discussion of them, till fee com
mittee has had further time to take them into mature con-»
sideration. There is one objection, however, which is partly connected
with fee detail of the measure, and partly applies as a general
objection. This regards fee option to be given in fee second in
stance to become a purchaser of the tax, provided the owner
himself should be unwilling or unable to buy. Cases may occur
in which the proprietor finds it inconvenient to make fee ad
vances necessary for the redemption. Great pains, however,
have been taken to lighten this inconvenience. Every attention
has heen paid to give fee landholder all the advantages con
sistent wiih the ultimate success of fee scheme. It is of infinite
jmportatice to gain during the war every benefit which the
measure is calculated to afford ; it is of fee utmost impor-

266 MR. PITT'S [April 2,
tance to secure feat assistance to credit, which will supply
lis with the means of that resistance which our independence, our
property, and our happiness calls upon us to make. For this
reason fee landholder ought to have no unlimited and exclusive
'privilege in the purchase of his tax, though the terms will be
such as to render it highly beneficial for him to become the pur
chaser himself. To enable him to take fee benefit held out to
him, every facility will be given him for raising money, and even
should he lose fee first opportunity of purchase, the redemption
pf fee tax will not be hopeless. A period should be fixed at
which he shall have fee liberty to redeem, though, on his refusal,
a tbird party in fee first instance has become the purchaser.
Such are the views upon which the plan is founded. As to
fee terms upon which the purchase is to be made, I shall explain
feem very shortly. Payment of fee redemption will not be de
manded in money, but will be received in transfer of stock to
the commissioners for liquidating the national debt. This mode
has fee advantage of accommodating itself to fee fluctuation of
stock, and each transaction liquidates itself. The present price
of three per cents, being about 50, affords an interest to pur
chasers of six percent. At this rate stock sells at from l6 to 17
years' purchase, and the tax will be sold at 20 years' purchase,
Evefy pound of annual tax, therefore, will be equal to 40/. ca
pital stock. Should stocks rise to 75 fee purchase will be 30
years, and the rate of purchase will feus vary one year with
every variation of two and a, half per cent, in fee price of stock.
From feis statement of fee comparative purchase of the stock
and tax, it is evident feat the public gains one-fifth of the pur*
chase by fee transfer of stock.
As far as the landholder is concerned, the question then is,
whether 20 years' purchase will present a sufficient inducement
to redeem, and whether 20 years be a sufficient advantage for
what he parts with at 17 years' purchase. This rests wholly
upon the supposed difference between landed and funded secu?
rity.1 Landed property in general throughout the kingdom sells
at from 23 to 30 years' purchase; funded at present from 1 6 to
\7. We are giving landed security for funded, and at the rate of

i-TOBi] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 257
20 years' purchase. At this rate the share of advantage to fee
public is small, to fee individual it is very considerable, if the
advantage purchased is considered of the same description as
landed property. I do not say, however, that it is exactly of
the same description as landed property; feey are to be distin
guished by feeir respective advantages and disadvantages. The
benefit to the purchaser by redemption is less valuable than
landed property in this respect; it is dry and unimprovable pos
session. Land, however, is improvable, and it sells not only
on its present value, but on fee calculation of progressive im
provement and speculative advantage. Other temptations to
the purchase of land are command, influence, amusement, plea
sure, occupation, according to fee temper and disposition ofthe
purchaser. It cannot be said, however, that fee purchase of
this benefit is rendered more valuable by any of these advantages.
It should be recollected at the same time, feat the purchase of
the tax, if not absolutely the acquisition of enjoyment — if not
a freedom from . vexation, is freedom from something which a
man would wish to be without. It has this advantage too, that
if not susceptible of improvement, it is attended with no risk.
The purchaser is exempted from fee care of management and
the trouble of collection, and taking all the advantages and dis
advantages together, it may be considered as a purchase of a
very desirable nature. While the owner is thus induced to be-*
come the purchaser, the public, as we have seen, derives a very
considerable benefit from the transaction,
The next part of fee plan is to give a facility to the possessor
ofland also to become a purchaser. For this purpose it is in
tended to give the tenant for life or in tail, the same power to
raise' fee money by burdening fee property as proprietor in fee,
provided, however, that the money so raised shall be strictly
applied to the purchase of the tax. It is even intended to allow
them to aive a rent charge upon fee property to fee amount if
convenient, to increase fee facility of the possessor becoming fee
purchaser. It is likewise proposed to give the proprietors of
Settled estates power to sell such a portion of the estate as shall,

26s MS. PITTS [Aprils,
enable feem to pay off the purchase of the tax, providing that tbe
money sball be strictly applied for that purpose.
Giving feese facilities to tbe possessor to become fee pur
chaser in the first instance, it appears necessary Jo fix a certain
period, after which, if they decline, third parties may buy. To
feese the terms shall be the same as to tbe owners. Landholders,
lovrever, are to have this superior advantage, that five years
sball be allowed for tbe payment of the instalments. At the
same time, however, if feey shall avail themselves of this indul
gence, feey shall pay interest on fee instalments, in order to
compensate to the public for the non-extinction at this period of
tbe purchase. Purchasers, not owners, are to pay op tlieir in
stalments within one year.
It is necessary, therefore, in order to call tbe means of re
source thus furnished into action, to take third parties where fee
landlords decline. That fee situation of such third parties may
aot be too precarious, and that they may not be too easily divest
ed of fee property they have acquired, some provisions must be
adopted by which they may be secured, and at the same time the'
power of redemption preserved to fee original owner. It is difficult
exactly to say what medium will balance fee right to be given to
feese two parties, which will present to the monied men fee tempta
tion to buy,and reserve to the owner the power of redemption. The
monied man must be induced to purchase by fee difference which
he supposes to exist between funded and landed property. This
difference is greater or less according as the times are critical or
tranquil. Land does not vary in time of war in fee same pro
portion as funded property. Those who make a distinction in fee
Value of land, do it upon its being less liable to fluctuation, and not
upon any circumstance affecting the permanent value of stock.
If then a third person shall purchase, fee owner shall not be at
liberty to redeem till aperiod arrives when the monied man shall
be willing to return his money into stock, and the landholder
shall have the means of raising money for his redemption. This
period will be at the happy moment when, having surmounted
fee difficulties wife which we have to struggle, and triumphed

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. s6"f
in the contest in which we are engaged, the consolidated fund
shall have attained its maximum, and being no longer allowed
to accumulate at compound interest, the dividends shall be made
applicable by parliament. This will be when fee consolidated
fond shall be 4,200,000/. Supposing then that by the exertions
which we have made, and continue to make, we should go
through the difficulties we have to encounter, and pass with suc
cess through feis crisis of our fate, when fee public debt shall
be met by fee consolidated fund there must be an end of all
doubt of public credit; feere must be an end of all question of
national securities, of all distinction between, landed and funded
property. — That moment, then, when least discouraging for the
monied man to revert to the funded security, shall be fixed for
the owner to avail himself of that redemption which circum
stances had at first made impossible. If not redeemed within a
given time, however, it becomes material to render fee property
permanent with fee purchaser, to the exclusion of the owner.,
Three years, then, after die expiring of the ten years, at fee
close of which the power of redemption is permitted to tbe owner,
seems to be a fair extension of the privilege. It- would give to
the owner an opportunity to purchase, of which, from his cir
cumstances, he was unable to avail himself on the first offer. —
It will give him time for preparation for domestic arrangements,.
and for raising the necessary funds. Thus no party will have
reason to complain of his sitoation. Provisions are made to se
cure to each fee advantages which he will be most likely to.
prefer. In the transaction tbe situation of the monied man is precisely
this. During a period of difficulty and danger, he has got a
Itadted security instead of that ofthe funds. This case, however,
will require two regulations; first, feat if any person, not fee
owner, has purchased by the transferring of an annuity, lie sball
be paid fee same quantity of stock upon the redemption, which
he had transferred without regard to the price of such stock.
Thus, supposing he had transferred to the piablic in payment
when stock was at 50, and in the interval it should rise to 75,

270 MR. PITT'S [April 2,
he will derive all fee advantage from fee rise, and may thus
realize fifty per cent, upon his capital. At the same time he is
to have no risk in case of a depreciation of the funds. Should
they fall below 50, he is to be reimbursed to the extent of the
difference. The situErtion of the stockholder who becomes a pur
chaser of the tax is precisely this, that he is speculating upon a
rise without any hazard of loss from depreciation.
I have stated these points to shew the general tendency of the
measure. It will now be seen, feat it is liable to no general ob
jections which do not admit of a remedy ; that the difficulties in
the detail are not such as to impede its progress; feat the ad-
Vantage to the public is considerable, and the benefit accruing to
fee individual such as will render it an object for him to purchase.
While the monied man is induced to come forward to assist fee
state by purchasing the tax, a remedy is reserved to the owner,
to enable him, at a fixed period, to repair the disappointment he
may have sustained from his original inability.
„ A variety of details must be involved in a measure like fee
present, but feere are none which appear to be attended with
great difficulty. On the present plan of repartition, fee amount
of particular districts remains unaltered, though it may vary
within fee district, with fee improvement or decline of fee va
rious parts. In the metropolis and considerable towns feis is
particularly the case. Ih the parish of Mary-la-bonne fee exten
sive improvement has rendered the repartition lighter, while in
other districts it may become heavier from an opposite cause.
Provision, therefore, must be made for the situation of an owner
purchasing in fee different cases of increase or decline.
The most advisable regulation certainly would be, that of leav
ing it to fee option of the owner, whether he will redeem it at
the present price feat shall be offered to him, or take it accord
ing to any future assessment to which it may be subject ; the
augmentation on which, as it is intended to be proportioned to the
present local inequalities in the land-tax, will nearly produce fee
same effect as if that impracticable plan of a general equalization
was to Le adppted. But in case of a third person purchasing a part

179S.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 271
of this tax, he shall be entitled to receive an abatement propor
tioned to the fund which he may give in exchange for the tax.
Therefore it will be extremely material to consider who the pur
chasers are to be; whefeer the land-owners, or ofeer persons
not having. any property in the land ; to see what circumstances
may belong to particular places, and whether there may not be
a great surcharge in some parishes, and none in others. But it is
not necessary for me now to enter into feose minute circum
stances, which may be better discussed when vthe business shall
come before the house for its consideration, and which will be
introduced by way of regulation into any bill that may be brought
in, if the house shall agree to the resolutions I mean to bring
forward. It would also be desirable to allow a person to pur
chase not only a certain portion ofthe tax, but a given share of
a district. These are the circumstances of the case which I have to lay
before the house, and which I have conveyed in as short a state
ment as I was able. The object is one. which requires considera
tion. In the first opening of the matter I avoided going into any
minute detail ; and although I feel it a matter of propriety in the
out-line, and such as deserves at least a favourable hearing, yet
I wish it to be examined carefully, weighed dispassionately and
deliberately, and that parliament may consider, whether it is not
such a measure as they ought in their wisdom to adopt at this
arduous moment. I shall follow the practice I have observed in
other instances with respect to the form of proceeding ; that of
moving the first resolution, and afterwards all the others in point
of form, and then postpone the consideration ofthe substance of
the plan to another day. I should propose taking the opinion of
tlie house upon them on Thursday ; and then feat the whole sub
ject should go over until after the holidays, in order that gentle
men may take them into the country, and have an opportunity of
conversing with their constituents, and learning whether any lo
cal circumstance may, in any case, render alteration necessary.
1 should now, without any farther trouble to ihe committee,

2f2 MR. PITT'S [April?,
move fee first resolution ; but perhaps fee committee would wish
to hear a statement of the heads of the resolutions.
The first resolution declares. feat the land-tax should be ren
dered perpetual, subject to certain -modes of restriction,- regula
tion, and redemptioii.
The second provides for the appointment of commissioners to
Sell fee land-tax upon fee terms and at the rate I have already
stated. The third gives power and preference to fee owners of land to-
pHTchase the larid-tax according to tlie nature of fee interest
feey have in fee estate, whefeer a fee or otherwise, and that in
fee event of the person in possessroft declining to purchase, the
next in succession, or the person in remaindet may do so. And1
feat any third person may make such a purchase for the
owner, &c.
The fourth gives power to owners to sell part Of their estates,
or raise money by way of rent-charge to enable feem to , pur\
chase fee tax.
The fifth gives power to third persons, the owner of the knoV
having declined it for a given period, to purchase the tax.
The sixth describes fee mode in which the payment shall be'
made. The seventh regulates fee power ofthe collectors in" receiving
fee money.
The eighth limits the time during which fee power of redemp--
tion shall continue.
The ninth imposes a penalty on feose who purchase and do not
make good the payment of their instalments.
The tenth provides that if arty assessment which shall -continue
to be charged shall be found to exceed 4s. in the pound on the
annual value of the messuages, &c. an abatement shall be rrrade.
The eleventh prescribes in what manner' a register shall be
tept for entering proceedings under this plan.
The twelfth provides that when the- whole land-tax shall be
brought tip, the assessment shall cease.

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 273
The thirteendi transfers the business of fee commissioners, ap
pointed to carry into effect fee plan for the reduction of fee na
tional debt.
The fourteenth provides, that in case any additional land tax
should be imposed, it shall not operate heavier on those who
have purchased fee former tax than on others.
The fifteenth contains an account of the sum of 1,400,000/.
which it is intended to produce annually.
This is fee proper statement Of the heads of the resolutions
which I propose to be discussed hereafter; but if any gentleman
has any thing to offer now, I should be glad to hear him.
After some discussion of the measure, the chairman reported progress, anil
the committee was ordered to sit again on Wednesday.

April <2.0, 1798.
A message from his Majesty was brought down by Mr. Secretary Dundas,
and read from the chair as follows :
" GEORGE R.
" His Majesty thinks it proper to acquaint the House of Commons, that
from various advices received by his Majesty, it appears that the preparations
for the embarkation of troops and warlike stores, are now carried on with
considerable and increasing activity in the ports of France, Flanders, and
Holland, with the avowed design of attempting the invasion of his Majesty's
dominions, and that in this design the enemy is encouraged by the corres
pondence and communication of traitorous and disaffected persons and so
cieties of these kingdoms. His Majesty places the firmest reliance/ under Di
vine Providence, on the bravery of his fleets and, armies, and on the zeal,
public spirit, and unshaken conrage of his faithful people, already manifested
iu the voluntary exertionsof all ranks of his Majesty's subjects for the general
defence, and more than ever necessary at a moment when they are called
"ipon to contend for the preservation of all that is dear to them.
"His Majesty, in pursuance of the act passed in the last session of parlia
ment, for raising a provisional force of cavalry, has thought it right to give
¦directions, that the said cavalry should be drawn out and embodied ; and it
is also his Majesty's iutention, to order the part not yet embodied ofthe atfg-
VQ1. Ill, T

fc74 MR. PITT'S [April 20,
meritaljSn made to the militia, under the acts oflast sessioa, to be forthwith
drawn' f out and embodied, in pursuance of his Majesty's communications al
ready made to the House of Commons on this subject.
" His Majesty feels it incumbent on him to make the fullest use of tlie ex
tensive means already provided by the wisdom of parliament for the national
defence. But he feels it at the same time, under circumstances which he has
stated, indispensably necessary to recommend ft to the House of Commons, to
consider without delay of such farther measures as may enable his Majesty to
defeat the wicked machinations of disaffected persons within these realms, and
to guard against the designs of the enemy, either abroad or at home. " G. R." ,
Mr. Dundas then moved an address of thanks to his Majesty in the language
of the message, which was seconded by Mr. Pitt.
After Mr. Sheridan had spoken in warm approbation ofthe address, and in
a tone and language calculated to animate the exertions of the country at this
important crisis,
Mn. Pitt rose to reply :
Being so well satisfied with certain parts of the speech of fee
honourable gentleman who has just spoken; admiring, as I do,
in common wife the rest of fee house, fee energy, the vigour,
the manliness' and eloquence, which were displayed in that
speech, I should be extremely unwilling to take notice of other
parts of it in which we differ; but I beg it to be understood, it
is because I do think unanimity valuable upon fee present occa
sion, and at feis moment, in this house, that I shall abstain
from comments upon parts of that speech, to which I cannot
assent. I had- much rather express satisfaction at the present
opinion of fee honourable gentleman, from whatever ground it
has arisen, that his opinion has been changed wife respect to
the conduct, which this country ought to observe with regard to
France ; I am glad that he now at least agrees with us in fee ne
cessity of resisting the arms of France, and in calling on every
man to join in that resistance. — I say, I had rather do so fean
enjsr into the discussion of other points in which I differ from
that honourable gentleman. I will not suffer myself to follow
him over many of the various topics which he has introduced to
night. The merit of hjs disinterestedness I do not mean to de-

llti.) PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. V?&
tract from, because he has candidly stated, that while he gives
his assistance to us in the present crisis, he does not approve of
any part of our conduct which he has formerly censured. I
therefore receive his aid now, as I am confident he intended it
to be received, as a testimony of his public spirit. I am more
convinced now than ever that that which now animates fee zeal,
calls forth the ardour, and occasions the display, of the elo
quence of that honourable gentleman, is owing to the conduct
of France ; that which now produces unanimity in feis house
and in feis country is nothing more than a display of those prin
ciples, a developement of that character, which belonged ori
ginally to fee French revolution — an event which," for a while,
unfortunately had the countenance of feat honourable gentle
man, bat which was then resisted by the nation at large ; a re
sistance which, if not made earlier than the period of the ho
nourable gentleman's conviction of its propriety, would have
been too late: even unanimity itself would then have been use
less, and fee honourable gentleman would have been left with
out a place for the display of his abilities in this house. I must
also say, that although I do not wish to detract from his talents ;
although I admire his eloquence, and revere the wisdom of
some part of his conduct feis night ; although I rejoice in fee
unanimity which we are likely to have upon feis occasion, yet it
is not to the wisdom, or to the splendid display of talents, or to
the animated zeal of an individual, that we are to look for
safety; it can only be considered as giving aid to the efforts of
•millions acting under the clearest necessity. That honourable
gentleman, therefore, will not think I should depreciate him,
or any ofeer individual, if I said it was adding but little
to the efforts of a nation nearly unanimous before; a nation
which did not want that honourable gentleman to tell feem,
they are contending for liberty, for order, for property, for ho
nour, for law, for religion, and even for existence. They would
have been happy to have had him contending with them from
the commencement of this contest ; feey would, however, have
been able to have gone on without him. While I say feis, let
x 2

276 MR. PITT'S [Apkil 20,
me give feat gentleman the praise and thanks feat are due to
him for setting the example he has done; for, be it recollected,
he has set an example of unanimity in this house for opposing
fee common enemy ; let us allow fee credit that is due to him ;
but let us not do such injustice to the zeal and fee energy of the
country as to doubt, that England was as secure before this una
nimity as it is now, and as I trust it will be after it.
On the subject of Ireland, fee honourable gentleman says he"
will make a motion on some future day. I will venture to say, ,
that when that subject comes to be discussed, if Ireland forms
now part of the weakness, instead of the strength, of fee British )
empire, it is because those very French principles, fee fatal in
fluence of which feat honourable gentleman has steted to-night,,
in a strain of energy and captivating eloquence which I will not
weaken by" attempting to repeat his words — it is owing, I say,
to these French principles, which found their way into that,
kingdom; where the arts of deception, from various causes, are
more easily practised, and are more successful than in feis. I
will therefore say, feat wife every desire, with every wish, to
see adopted a system of conciliation with Ireland, when that
may be practicable, I must tell him, that if he means by a peace
with Ireland, peace with those who are devoted to the French)
I think feat would be as mean a capitulation, as that .which
he described with respect to our submitting to a foreign yoke :
I say, you may as well expect peace wife a French army at the
gates of London, as peace with the jacobins in Ireland.-
If I doubted any thing on the subject of French ambition,
which was introduced by that honourable gentleman, it was
upon the reserve which he: made for treating wife fee French
after an invasion. I know no situation which can justify a nar
tion of freemen under any circumstances, in making a treaty of
capitulation, or surrender of liberty and independence to the
mercy of the enemy; and it is a sentiment in fee heart of every
Englishman, a law beyond any statute, feat it would be high
treason for this country to treat with France, while a single
regiment of French forces remained in England. I must apply

1788.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 277
tlie same feelings and tlie same sentiments with regard to
Ireland. And now, as to fee only ofeer point which I intend to notice
in the speech of the honourable gentleman, I mean the state of
a conspiracy in this country; he has said, that much might be
known to government which is not known to him. I know feat
much is known to government which cannot be known to him
upon that subject. I know that the country at large is sensible,
that there is a body of men, too considerable in number and ac
tivity for government to pass by them unnoticed ; men who are
going on wife the daring purpose of corresponding with fee
French, for establishing.a spirit of republicanism in this country.
under the auspices of a foreign force. This is supported by fee
1 conduct of our enemies ; we can see nothing of the proceedings
of our enemies ; we can see none of the speeches of their leaders,
in which it is not attempted to animate the French people to invade
this country ; no temptation to make their armies embark ; no
endeavour to prevail upon their scanty marine to try their feeble
efforts, that is not followed up with fee hope of success, by
the co-operation of traitors in this country. I think, therefore,
I may venture to say, -that when fee crown does state by a roes-
sage, that fee information is received of the existence of such a
design, we ought to be prepared in the best manner possible.
. When we know that the enemy are forming a plan to invade
this country ; when we know that in former times, on such
communications from tlie throne, our ancestors, witthout inves
tigation, had recourse to tbe measure of enabling his Majesty to
secure and detain those who are suspected of conspiring against
his government, I say, we should be wanting to ourselves, if we
hesitated in adopting the measure to which the honourable gentle
man alluded, seemingly with a dislike, in one part of his speech,
but which I hope this house will give effect to before we separate
this night. It was my intention to have moved for that law
immediately after disposing of the address ; but feat having
Suggested itself elsewhere, we may be enabled to give it the
force of law more speedily. I hope tbe interval will not be a
t3

278 MR. PITT'S [April SO,
great many minutes before we see that measure has received the
sanction of another house of legislature. It is a measure that
becomes necessary on grounds intimately connected with fee
subject now beforeus. I am very glad feere is now no difference
of opinion upon the main question ; the union of feis house is
very desirable upon feis point ; and therefore, although I may.
protest against some of the doctrines of the honourable gentle
man who spoke last, I am unwilling to dwell upon fee points on
which we differ, because I am unwilling to disturb their una*
nimity. The question upon the address was immediately put and agreed, to nemine
contrudicente.

A message from the Lords shortly afterwards informed the House that their
Lordships had passed a bill, intituled, " an act to empower his Majesty to secure
and detain such persons as he may suspect to be conspiring against his person
and government."
On Mr. Pundas' moving " that this bill be now read a first time,"
Mr. Sheridan declared, he was so tenacious of the liberty of the subject,
M18 so unwilling to aisent to any infringement upon it, that, until better
proofs were given of the necessity of the measure than the minister's assertion,
lie must meet the present motion with bis decided negative.
Mb. Pitt said, feat with regard to the existence of a con
spiracy, what he had said had been misrepresented by the ho
nourable gentleman * who spoke last. It had been stated, as if
be had conveyed ap idea, that nothing was to be found in feis
country but loyalty and attachment to government. That loy
alty, indeed, he was happy to think was general ; but so far was
he from stating it to be unanimous, that, on fee contrary, he
Stated expressly, that although a large portion were favourable
to government, there were, nevertheless, a description of per
sons top considerable, both in number and activity, to be passed
by unnpticed, whose conduct was opposite to the general sense
of feis nation. Was it then to be contended, feat, because these
circumstances were so plain as to call forth the ?eal of almost
* Mr. Sheridan,

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 279
every man in fee country, except its enemies, therefore we
were to take no precaution whatever for our own safety ? The
honourable gentleman said, feere was a period when we our
selves did not think it necessary to take feis precaution, without
laying before parliament different evidence from that which is
before it now. There was, indeed, a time when evil disposed
persons were active, and when there were insurrections and dif«
ficulties to be overcome, and danger to be avoided.
But would fee honourable gentleman undertake to say, that
the preparations made by fee enemy for a descent upon this
country, were at any other period during the war ever so ripe^
so extensive, and so truly alarming as at the present crisis ? He
would hardly risk so ill-founded an assertion. France had, in
the former part of tbe contest, been totally engaged in her con
tinental wars ; the powerful confederacy which had been formed
against her, kept ber troops in constant action, and employed
every means and every resource to which she could resort. She
was so completely occupied as to render every hostile design
against us ridiculous, and every attempt perfectly nugatory.
We were well aware of fee weakness of her means, with respect
to fee execution of any project of invasion against us, though
we were at fee same time fully satisfied of her destructive views,
and her wishes to annihilate us as an independent nation. Situ
ated and involved as she was then, we had less to apprehend
from any attempts which, in -the heat of inordinate ambition,
and urged on by intemperate revenge, she might madly be in
duced to make, for the purpose of destroying our political and
civil liberty, our religious blessings, and our commercial pros
perity. But the case was now extremely different.
The French goverbment, freed from fee perplexities and
struggles in which it had been involved by the military exertions
of the continental powers, was at liberty to employ its troops di
rectly against us, and centered all its hopes in attacking this na-
- tion, which had so gloriously opposed the torrent of general
anarchy, and manfully continued fee contest vigorously, success
fully, and alone, against all fee force, and against all fee arte
14

280

MR. PITT'S [April 20,

and machinations which it could employ. The force it had hi
therto employed had been defeated wife disgrace and shame ; and
fee base undermining machinations with which it worked, to
diffuse disaffection, and propagate the doctrines of anarchy, in
fee heart of the country, would, he trusted, be speedily and
successfully counteracted. If he wanted any other evidence to
shew the necessity of the interference of parliament, to invest the
executive government with the power stated in fee bill, he would
make use of no other to recommend it than the prompt and
spontaneous offer which the honourable gentleman had made in
fee beginning of the debate, to join in fee most effectual man
ner in promoting the zealous and spirited Unanimity of the whole
body of the people, in their exertions to secure from fee rapa
city of an unprincipled, plundering, and lawless invader, the pos
session of every object that was truly dear to them. But was
there any thing, he would ask, that could produce unanimity in
a greater degree, and secure fee vast benefits naturally resulting
from the great and happy co-operation of all well-disposed per
sons, jointly exertiug themselves with one heart and with one
hand for the preservation of feeir most valuable rights, fean
the adoption of fee present measure, which went to disable
disaffected and dangerous men from destroying, by open acts of
violence, and insidious arts, feat unanimity on which the honour
able gentleman had laid such stress for effecting the salvation of
fee country ? How, therefore, fee honourable gentleman's ob
jections could be fairly reconciled wife fee animating and patri.
otic professions which he had made, and which, in fact, did him
so much honour, he could not help saying he was at a loss to
determine. The honourable gentleman did feel, from the natural effusion
of the warmth and impassioned sentiments of patriotism which
he had delivered, feat the zealous co-operation of every indivi
dual was required at this important crisis in the common de
fence; and surely he would not, upon mature reflection, weaken
feat most desirable end, by his opposition to a bill which directly
went to invigorate the public mind, and 'to cement the effective

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 281
and irresistible union of men of all parties and of all descrip
tions, by freeing them from fee apprehensions and dismay to
which they were liable, by suffering men tainted with principles
hostile to fee consfe ion, and, indeed, bent on fee destruction
of it, to remain at large, in readiness to contrive and carry into
execution feeir horrid projects. So far, therefore, was the bill
from being objectionable, that it, on the contrary, promoted, in
the most effectual way, the chief object which the honourable
gendeman had at heart. The honourable gentleman had, in the
first stage of fee debate, acted honourably, and it was earnestly
to be hoped that he would follow up that conduct by acting con
sistently. But was it consistent wife that vigilance and with that
spirit of precaution, which the honourable gentleman had so
strenuously recommended to the house and to the country, first,
to let us suffer the invasion to take place, and then proceed to
suspend fee Habeas Corpus act ? In ofeer words, we were to be
uncommonly vigilant and cautious when the enemy had once ob
tained a footing in fee country ; and at the moment when wo
were threatened wife the most imminent peril, we were only
'then to think of securing ourselves against fee dangerous, and
perhaps, fatal activity of domestic traitors.
But it was urged, that notorious proofs ought to be furnished to
induce fee house to give their assent to fee present measure. In
answer to that, he would ask, what was the nature of fee proofs
which appeared ? The house had been told, on the authority of the
executive government, which no gentleman could attempt to say
would be lightly hazarded, feat a strong spirit of disaffection
prevailed both in feis Country and in Ireland. Yet, if that in
formation was not deemed sufficiently satisfactory, he would
maintain, what he was completely satisfied could not be denied,
that fee house and the public hi-J been told so upon fee testi
mony of ihe French themselves. Were gentlemen then to disbe
lieve all feese authorities, and were they to give no credit what
ever to the publications of fee French government, which bad
uniformly in almost every topic that related to the plan of inva
sion, held out, as an encouragement and as a facility to execute

282 MR. PITT'S [April 25,
it, feat fee most material assistance was to be expected from fee
exertions and co-operation of their agents and instruments here ?
Would the house act differently from the acknowledged practice
of their ancestors, even for a considerable time previous to the
expected danger, and not adopt salutary measures of defence
and general preservation, unless the peril was immediate and
unavoidable ? Such a conduct would not only be contrary to the
rule of right, established and continued by the wisest precedents,
but would be directly fee reverse of feat which human reason
ought to dictate.
Taking fee question, therefore, in every possible point of view,
he was sure that thesegrounds were sufficient to induce fee house
to agree to fee preamble of the bill, which had been sent to feem
from fee house of lords. That there were men disaffected to fee
constitution of fee country, and to his Majesty's government, no
doubt could possibly exist ; for fee preamble of fee bill was
proved in fee most satisfactory manner by clear and notorious
testimony, and the consequence followed of course. He there
fore earnestly called upon the house, and the honourable gentle*
man, in a particular degree, whose conduct in the first stage of
fee debate was entitled to fee most honourable commendation,
and whose consistency was on feat principle so materially in
volved in fee present question, to agree to fee bill, and not to
suffer fee enemy first to come here, and proceed afterwards to
deliberate. The question for the first reading of the bill was carried upon a division;
Ayes  183
Noes „:._.„. 5
and the bill was afterwards forwarded through all its stages, and passed.

\2fp:

tprilQo, 1798.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of^ Ways and Means,
Mr. Hobart in the chair,
Mr. Pitt rose, and spoke to the following effect i ¦

1798.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 283
Sir— It will be recollected that in November last, when Maid
before fee committee an outline of fee probable amount of the
expense of fee year, I stated it at the sum of twenty-five milli
ons and a half. It is a satisfaction to me to observe in fee outset,
feat fee statement which I shall now have fee honour to sub
mit, differs from the former in so few points, the changes which
will be remarked in it are so intelligible, and the causes by which
feey have been occasioned are so plain and obvious, feat I shall
not be under fee necessity of trespassing long upon fee time of
fee committee. The total amount of the supply which I am to
lay before you to-day, according to fee most accurate estimate
feat can be formed, and after six months have elapsed, notwith
standing the circumstances which have called upon us to make
additions to our expenditure, is 28,400,000/.; being an excess of
about three millions beyond fee former calculation. This vari
ation, it will readily be perceived, results in a great measure from
fee increased exertions for our national defence, which the state
of fee preparations of the enemy, and the probability of their
attempting to put their designs in execution, have occasioned. I
shall proceed, therefore, to state, as shortly as I am able, the va-
- riations which have taken place, and explain fee articles in which
fee statement I formerly gave are increased.
The first head of service which naturally occurs, is the navy.
J stated fee estimate of this branch of expenditure, in Novem
ber, at the sum of 12,538,000/. and the committee have re
cently added to feat head the sum of 910,000/. making a total -
of 13,448,000/.,
The next article of supply is fee army, which the committee
will recollect amounted to 10,1 12,000/., and with the particulars
pf which I will not at present trouble them. It is, however, ne
cessary to observe, feat several additions have been since made.
Among these additions is the charge of 1,315,000/. for defraying
fee expense incurred by fee supplementary militia, and 130,000/.
for fee provisional cavalry. There is also a sum of 350,000/.
for fee volunteer corps, I mean the expense incurred by the dif
ferent volunteer corps of infantry : and I have fee happiness to

284 MR. PITT'S [April 25,
remark, feat fee body feus raised amouiits to no less fean
40,000 men. The next article is that which relates to fee foreign
corps, and makes an expenditure of 226,000/. I formerly stat
ed, feat fee extraordinaries incurred in 1797 were likely to
amount to about 1,300,000/., and they have only exceeded feat
sum by 61,000/. The original estimate of fee charge for bar
racks was 400,000/., to which I must now add fee farther in
crease pf 120,000/. ; and this addition is easily accounted for.
It naturally arises from fee expenses incurred in consequence of
fee additional troops which it has been found necessary to keep
on foot, and in a state of readiness for action. But here I must
observe, that fee debt so created would have been equally caus
ed in another way. It would have been allowed to innkeepers
for quartering the troops, and for the formation of temporary
barracks ; and the advantages resulting from employing it in the
manner in which it has been laid out, must be obvious to every
man who considers the state of the country ; as we are enabled
by. that means more effectually to concentrate our force, and to
put ourselves into a more capable situation of repelling any sud
den attack. These, Sir, are the whole of the articles which re
spect the army, with the exception of 700,000/. for future extra-
ordinaries. The extraordinaries I had -formerly calculated at
2,500,000/. but I shall take-them now at 3,500,000/. These
items, taken together, will give a total sum of 12,857,000/.
The next head of service which presents itself is the ordnance,
which, with a small addition to what I stated in the month of
November, amounts to the sum of 1,303,000/.
There are very few additions to be made to tbe charge for
miscellaneous articles, and the total of the sums appropriated
to this branch may be taken at 682,000/. These, Sir, are tha
different additions which are to be made to the former estimate;
which 1 had the honour of submitting to the committee. There
are, besides, it is necessary for me to notice, one or two trifling
articles, but there appears on the whole an excess of 3,o74,000/.
beyond the sum stated in November ; in feat estimate, however,
was included an estimate of deficiency of grants, and which it
3

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES- 285
is now unnecessary to provide for from two material causes.
The bank has been paid the sum of 500,000/. by the early pro
duct of fee land tax, which otherwise would have gone to the
consolidated fund. Besides, in the distribution paper it appears,
that of the whole sum of money granted 19 the island of Grenada,
150,000/. has not been sent, and therefore the deficiency will
leave the gross sum of 2,994,000/. as an excess.
RECAPITULATION.
Navy  £¦ 13,44S,SS8
Stated in November £. 12,538,888
Added now - - - - 910,000
Army-  12,857,315
Stated in November - 10,112,950
Added now - - - 2,744,365
Ordnance -----  -- 1,303,580
Stated in November - 1,291,038
Added now - - - - 12,542
Miscellaneous .---  6SO,6o8
Stated in November - 673,000
Added now  7,608
National Debt  *.... 200,000

£. 28,490,391

I am aware, however, that in this statement no provision is
made for any extraordinary expense which may be necessary in
a crisis like fee present, when fee extent of our exertions must
be regulated by fee magnitude of the danger with which we are
threatened, and by fee aspect which feat danger may assume,
should fee enemy persevere in their desperate designs of inva
sion. .For tlie expense which, in such an emergency, would be
required, we must provide as circumstances shall direct. We
can only take care to cover by specific provisions those sums
which-are stated upon actual estimate. No calculation can be
made of the expense which such an exigency, as that for which
we ought to prepare ourselves, will occasion. It must be gene-

286 MR. PITT'S {Ar-tlri. 25,
rally provided, therefore, by a vote of credit, which it may either
exceed, or of which it may fall short, as the case may happen.
What ofeer precautions such a state of things may require, will
be subject of future consideration. At present I propose only
to make provision for fee specific services which can be calcu
lated upon estimate, reserving till a future period the motion I
shall have the honour of making for a vote of credit. Gentle
men may be desirous to know to what extent feat vote of credit
is intended to be. As far as I can at present form any judgment
upon fee subject, two millions will be the sum proposed.
Having stated the variations which circumstances have pro- •
duced in fee supply, it remains for me to explain fee alte
rations which have taken place, and fee additions that may
be necessary in fee plan of fee ways and means since November
last. The land and malt, then, I take as usual at 2,750,000/. The
next article is fee assessed taxes. Here the committee will be
aware that a considerable variation has taken place from fee
sum at which feeir produce was originally estimated. The mo
difications which, upon the wisest principles, were introduced in
to fee bill in its progress through the' house, have greatly reduced
the amount at which feis article was stated. The committee
must likewise be sensible that it would be impossible to form any,
thing like a correct estimate of fee sum, which, the measure,
with all its modifications, may be expected to produce. In many
parts of fee kingdom, the charges to be made have not been as
certained, and the appeals to which they must give rise have not
yet been decided. As far as can be collected from fee returns,
there is reason to believe, however, that the defalcation in fee
produce of this measure will not be such as to diminish or de
stroy its beneficial tendency. In the metropolis, too, from which
- fee returns have almost only been received, the abatements will
be found chiefly to apply. In fee country, the same circum
stances which, in the case of the metropolis, rendered fee modi
fication necessary, do not exist; and fee produce of fee tax,
therefore, will not be expected to fall short in fee same propor*

1788.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 287
tion. The original amount ofthe tax, on which fee increase was
imposed, is 2,700,000/. I conceive then, that I may very
safely state the probable produce of the increased assessment at
4,500,000/. While we make allowance for the diminution which the modi
fications of fee act may occasion, we must, on fee other hand,
take into view fee assistance which its produce will derive from
the voluntary contributions, which so honourably for fee zeal
and fee spirit of the country have every where been set on foot.
This liberal and patriotic fund will supply what it was prudent in
the legislature to remit. It is, Sir, I am happy in having an op
portunity to observe, the most satisfactory and irresistible testi
mony of fee decisive sentiments of the nation at large, at fee pre
sent important moment, to support with their property the inde
pendence and prosperity of their country. It forms the most
cordial proof of fee unanimity of a great and free nation, to sup
port feat constitution, under the protection of which they enjoy
so many extensive and solid advantages. The great mass of the
people have, by furnishing in a voluntary manner these contribu
tions, told us feeir manly determination to resist any encroach
ments which may be attempted on their liberty. They have told
us not by words, but by actions. They have felt that feey were
engaged in a contest- in which their property was at stake, and
tbey have come forward with a part of feat property, to enable
thejovernment to make exertions great and suitable to the pres
sure and importance of fee occasion. The enthusiasm of contri
buting to fee national defence, has pervaded and animated all
ranks and orders of men in fee country. Some exceptions I ad
mit there are, but feey weigh little in fee general scale. These
honourable and patriotic contributions have been equally and
proportionably furnished by fee landed gentlemen, by the monied
interest, by the merchant, by the artizan, by the mechanic, and
by the labourer. There is not, Sir, a single class, or description
of persons, in which we shall not ffnd the most satisfactory proofs
of true patriotism, and distinguished zeal; and these I take to be

2S8 MR. PIT^S [April 25,
fee best and most effectual answers we can make to the insolent
threats of the enemy. Knowing, therefore, from the best sources
of information, that the spirit of this nation is rising with an
energy incalculable, that every day furnishes additional proofs
of the generosity and patriotism of every part of the country, I
am rather fearful of under-rating the resources which feis spirit
may call forth, than of computing them above their amount. —
In many parts of fee country the most liberal contributions we
know to have been made, the precise amount of which cannot
yet be ascertained-. Of the whole sum subscribed at fee bank,
two- thirds may be taken as voluntary contributions, which on
fee present amount will be 1,350,000/. As it is impossible to
calculate the extent to which this system so happily begun, may
be carried in different parts of the country from which no returns
have yet been received, I am sure the committee will not think
the calculation exorbitant, if I take the article of voluntary con
tribution at 1 ,500,000/. It would give rne pleasure to find that
it will exceed the sum at which I state its probable amount ; but
in all the circumstances I feel a considerable confidence feat to
feis extent we may look to it as a certain resource.
The next article for which I propose to take credit, is one
which has not yet been submitted to parliament, but which I
entertain a sanguine hope will meet with their approbation.
It is an object, which in a considerable degree had occupied
the attention of fee commercial and mercantile world. It in
cludes more to recommend it to the attention of fee house, with
less of solid objection, than any measure which for sometime
has been skibmitted to parliament. It will be attended with an
additional protection to our trade, and without imposing any new
burthens upon the country, it will secure an additional resource
for the support of the war. It is my intention to propose this
measure only as applicable to the war, and to a war such as the
present. A considerable part of the recommendation which it
possesses, arises from the particular nature of the contest in
which we are now engaged. It has this farther advantage too,

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 289
that a considerable part of it will be paid by foreigners. It will
take from fee enemy one of the resources of maritime rapine,
which has been the only employment and encouragement for
their marine in fee absence of legitimate commerce. The plan
to which I allude then is, to adopt some regulations respecting
the convoy of our trade, and to impose a certain tax upon ex
ports and imports, in such manner as not to risk the diminution
of our commerce ; a tax too that will be repaid by tbe decrease
in the price of insurance, which will fall upon the consumer, and
diminish the number of prizes which our extended commerce has
held out to the predatory spirit of fee enemy. I am aware feat
this subject will require considerable discussion. On the face of
it, however, it is one to which no objection occurs. I do not
propose to take it, supposing it should receive the approbation of
the house, for more fean a year, or for fee interest ofthe loan.
But when our increased and increasing trade requires additional
protection, it Cannot but be desirable to adopt a plan which will
not only secure this important object, but afford a considerable
resource to the support of the present contest. In this way, then,
from tbe best general estimate feat can be made on this subject
at present, I think I may venture to state feis object as capable
of producing fee sum of 1 ,500,000/.
In the statement which I made in November last, I took credit
for 560,000/. upon the consolidated fund. Upon looking at the
consolidated fund, and the produce of the taxes, so far as they
can be ascertained up to April, I have the satisfaction to see that
the sources, from which the consolidated fund is supplied, are
amply productive. Still, however, as the charges on the pay
ments to be made on fee loan will, in tbe course of fee year,
come upon fee consolidated fund, I do not think it proper to in
clude in the ways and means any supply to be derived from feis
source. I propose, therefore, to leave it to provide feese objects,
and to redeem the arrears of charges upon fee grants of 1797.
At fee same time, however, I shall proceed to state from the
most authentic papers, fee amount of the revenue up to fee, pre
sent period, as far as those parts, which have been more recently
VOL. III. V

290 MR. PITT'S [A* hit. 23,
imposed, can be ascertained. I am the more anxious to enter
into feis statement, feat, from a comparison of fee permanent!
revenue with fee permanent charge, gentlemen may be able to
judge of our whole situation, and the adequacy of our resources-
to support the efforts we are called upon to exert, The total
amount, then, of the old revenue, exclusive of the taxes imposed
in 1797, was 18,570,000/. The amount of taxes imposed in
1797, to the extent of about three millions, , is, to be added. It
cannot be expected that these taxes should yet be placed in a
state of collection by which feeir produce could accurately be as-,
certained. About 1,500,000/. has already been obtained on ac
count of these taxes. From the best calculation which can
be made, it is computed that feeir permanent produce will be
2,900,000/. The tax upon legacies was estimated at 120,000/. which, from
its nature, must require time to come up to the estimate. It has-
yet produced only between 50 and 60,000/. I entertain a hope,
feat when it finds its level, it will appear that it was not over
rated in fee estimate. I shall, therefore, now state it at 100,0,QO/,
The next is an article upon which various opinions have been
entertained as to its produce. It certainly has hitherto fallen short
of its estimate. One principal cause of feis is, that rumours had
been circulated that the tax was to be repealed, which prevented
people from renewing their stock. I am of opinion, it will in
time advance much farther, fean feose who disapproved of it ever
imagined. It has of late advanced considerably, and is continu
ing to advance ;— I mean fee article of wine. If fee house shall
think proper to persevere in the continuance of that duty, I am
of opinion, that the revenue will benefit nearly to the extent
which I originally stated; I shall, therefore, estimate the pro
duce of this duty at 400,000/. more fean it has hitherto yielded
to the public. These sums* being, added together, will afford a
total of 20,>7 0,000/., including the supposed increase of 1797,
the legacy dutyrarid the article of wine.
I have proceeded in this way to judge ofthe permanent reve
nue by the produce of fee last year only of an expensive war;
and now, Sir, if gentlemen will take fee trouble to look at this-
t

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 891
revenue, and add to it the land and malt, they will find no less a
sum than twenty-three millions sterling to be set against the per
manent charges, which amount to 23,295,000/. ; and they will
also find, instead of a diminution of the permanent taxes, a per
manent revenue, amid all the burdens inseparable from a state of
war, balancing all the permanent charges that can be set against
it. I have neither mentioned fee lottery, nor the probable re
turns expected from India, in aid of the voluntary contributions ;
but I think it right to state feese objects to the ^>mmittee, for
the purpose of fairly shewing the flourishing situation of the pub
lic revenue. I beg leave to observe, feat I have taken the per
manent revenue on fee supposition that fee peace estimate would
be calculated on fee same grounds as previous to the war. The
estimate before the war was sixteen millions, and the addition of
7,295,000/. since will give fee gross amount of 23,295,000/.
The surplus qf the lottery is 200,000/. ; and I believe I have now,
Sir, mentioned every article which it may be' necessary for the
committee to consider, but the loan. The loan, it is now fully
understood, consists of fifteen millions, exclusive of two millions
to be advanced to Ireland. The committee will see that- the dif
ferent items of the ways and means stand feus :

Land and malt ... £'2,75Q,QQQ
Lottery - - - - -- 200,000
Assessed taxes - - £. 4,500,000"!
Voluntary contributions 1 ,500,000 V 7,5/0X),0QP
Tax on imports and exports 1,500,000_)
Bank advance - - - 3,00,0,000
Loan  15,000,OOQ

£. 28,450,000

which within a trifle meets fee amount of fee supply.
The next circumstance to be considered is fee terms of fee-
loan ; and upon feat subject it is not necessary that I should de-
v 2

292 MR. PITT'S [A»RiL25,
tain fee committee for a long time, because fee discussion of an
other subject, in which this loan was incidentally mentioned by
me, brought forward fee general terms of feat loan ; and it was
then noticed in a manner feat has rendered it unnecessary for me
- to say much upon it now. It is, however, matter of great satis
faction to me, and must be so to this committee, to reflect that we
have a loan upon such terms at the present moment. It must
give us all great satisfaction to find so much confidence in the
monied men ; and here I cannot help observing, that I do believe
that much of the advantage which the public derive from this
bargain has ansen from fee confidence which monied men have,
feat the plan now before parliament for fee sale of fee land-tax
will be adopted. Much satisfaction as I have from this, I have
a still greater satisfaction in reflecting feat fee people of England
feel feey are safe, because they take such measures as ought to
save them. The people of England, and the monied interest
among feem, shew fee enemy feat, while they alarm us with
threats of invasion, we have taken measures for our own secu
rity, in a manner calculated to meet our danger. This is a cir
cumstance for congratulation to us all ; inferior to it, although
important, is the detail.
When fee bargain was concluded the 3 per cent consols were
at 48| and the 3 per cent, reduced were at 471. In the former,
150/. was valued at 72/. 1-1*. 3d.; and in fee latter, 50/. was
taken at 22/. l6s. 3d., which, with fee market price of 13!
years of long annuity, or 4/. 4s. 6^d. made 99^- • 2*- 0|. So
feat on the face of the bargain, fee subscriber takes less than
his 100/. The discount is certainly a different matter, and was
calculated at fee rate of 5 per cent, as was the case last year.
But there are two ways of considering this ; the advantage to the
contractor arises from fee anticipation of future instalments by
prompt payment, and there the discount is of course greater;
but with respect to those who wait for the fixed period of future
payment, the advantage is less. The first gain by prompt pay
ment 102/. 4s. 6f</. for 100/., and fee last only 101/. 0s. 7\d.;
so that there is a bonus of 2/. 4s. (i\d. to the one, and but of

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 293
1/. Os. 7\d. to fee others, Such, Sir, I must consider at this
period as an extraordinary event, and I might be inclined to
call it an unaccountable one, if I did not know that it was to be
answered for by the spirit and patriotism ofthe country. Looking,
however, at it with the view of interest, we must see it as a bar
gain concluded at 8s. interest less than fee lean of last year was
made. What a consideration does feis give rise to, with respect
to fee energy and exertions of fee country ! Have we not the
strongest motives to be convinced, that after twelve months have
elapsed, and in a period of difficulty and apparent financial em
barrassment, our resources appear superior to any check, and
are greater comparatively than before ? Having stated this as
the amount of the charge to be incurred by fee loan, I must ob
serve, feat eight millions of it is to be provided for by the gra
dual payment of the assessed taxes. We have therefore seven
millions to find taxes for ; and adding to this 200,000/. to be
applied to the sinking fund, and taking fee interest of the whole
sum of 7,200,900/. at 8/. Ss. per cent, we shall have 577,000/.
to provide for annually.
I took a view on a' former occasion of the unfunded debt, and
by simplifying fee accounts, shewed what the whole excess of
the unfunded or navy debt only was, from the commencement
of the present war to that moment. I then mentioned that I
should, perhaps, propose to fund two or three millions of the
navy debt; but, upon mature consideration, I find that it will
be unnecessary to fund fee navy debt, and that it will be more
proper to leave it in its actual situation until peace. In the year
1792 it amounted to 2,745,000/. and it now exceeds 6,000,000/.;
so feat the interest to be provided for will be 1 86,000/. which
added to 577,000/. will amount to 763,000/. in taxes to meet
fee interest of all the charges for the present year.
The first article to which I would call the attention of the
committee as being a fit one for a new duty, is an article which
has remained so long without any additional duty, and is so dif
fused in general consumption that it will, I have no doubt, pro
duce fee sum at which I have estimated it ; at the same time it.
v 3

294 MR. PITT'S T. April 2>St
will bear on the lower classes of fee community so slightly, as ta
be matter of great satisfaction to me to state it to fee committee.
I mean the article of salt. A considerable profit will accrue to
the revenue from certain regulations that are to be proposed
with regard to fee mode of collecting the duty, but for which
I shall'at present take almost nothing.- The amount of fee tax:
which I propose to the committee as fit to be imposed upon
this article, is 5s. in fee bushel, that is to say, double the prer
sent duty. This will produce 500,000/. Some deductions are
to be made in case of prompt payment. The charges of the ma
nagement will not be increased ; on fee contrary, tbey will be
diminished , so that I shall take for this article 503,000/. This
fee committee will see goes a great way towards the whole pro
duce. It is necessary to know what will be the pressure of this
tax, especially on fee lower orders of the community, I have
considered it a good deal, and, although I do not say that I am
strictly correct in the opinion I have formed upon it, yet, after
fee best view I have been able to take, I am led to believe that
in a great number of instances fee consumption of a small famii
ly is not more than half a bushel a year ; which will call upon
the lower class in each family to defray an additional expense of
half a crown a year. Comparing feis with the effect of various;
taxes that have been imposed at various times, and which, with
the best care feis house could take to spare fee lower orders in
the progress of feis war, I think fee present is a~ very moderate
tax. We must remember feat all taxes on fee articles of life
must in some degree affect fee lowest as well as fee highest;
I hope, therefore, this impost will not be considered as an un
reasonable one. I hope, also, feat if any man should tell them
feey are heavily taxed, he will tell feem likewise feat if the no
bleman, if fee man of property, if indeed all the higher classes
of tbe community be interested in the present contest, feey can
not be more so fean the lower orders are ; that there is no man
in the social state that is more deeply or even so deeply interest*
ed in this contest as he, who is doomed to subsist upon fee pro
duce of his own labour. — That it is a contest which involves the
3

ms.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 2»5
happiness of the lower orders more immediately than that of any
other ; that the French revolution has been followed up by a
system of flattery and pride to the passions of the lower class,
while its effect has been an utter destruction to their comfort ;
that of all descriptions of men in Europe, none have been more
unhappily the dupes and victims of such a system fean the ho
nest, laborious, but too credulous husbandman and mechanic ;— •
a system that has filled fee greater part of Europe, indeed, with
an equal portion of misery and disgrace. This much I have con
ceived it necessary to state, in order to obviate the objections of
those who might suppose feat the tax in question would operate
as a grievance on the lower orders of people.
The next thing which I mean to propose as an object of taxa
tion, is an article of consumption which is in general use, but the
duty on which will fall less heavy on the lower orders of people
fean that which 1 have already laid before the committee. I
Cannot at present see how far this tax may interfere with the in
terest of the East India company, but I hope that it will prove
satisfactory to feem and the country at large. It is a duty of
5 per cent, on tea ; but this duty is not to be laid indiscriminate
ly, it is only to take place on what sells above 2s. 6d. per pound,
and on feat account will not touch that species ef tea which is in
general use among the lower classes of people. This tax will
produce fee sum of 1 1 1,500/. ; for it is undeniable feat fee tea
valued at above 2s. 6d. per lb. has considerably increased in thte
quantity of its consumption.
The next article, Sir, which I have to submit to the commit
tee, rests upon principles very different from those on which I
have proposed the two other subjects of taxation. It does not
affect necessaries in its operation, nor, I confess, is it very cer
tain wife respect to its produce; yet 'my conjectures are, not
withstanding, sufficiently sanguine. Although it is not a necessary
article of life, it is nevertheless an article of choice and taste,
which I wish by no means to check the enjoyment of. I hope,
I mav say, that, without any bigoted attachment to customs, or
without any aft'ection for pride or for vauity, it is an article that
v 4

296 MR. PITT'S [April 25»
deserves tenderness and respect. I mean to propose an impost on
fee use of armorial bearings. Perhaps some may think, pr inr
vidiously insinuate, that by this I prove myself an advocate for
a levelling system. I feel, however, feat it is in consequence of
these species of distinctions, or the hope of obtaiping them, that
many men have performed the most heroic deeds ; and I think
feat those who possess such distinctions, wisely set upon feem a
real value, and, in so doing, form a judgment which feeir pasr
sions dictate and their reason approves. Instead of being evi
dence of their vanity, it proves feeir wisdom ; as in the present
state of the world, these links in the chain and order of society
are highly essential to the welfare of us all; and it is because I
do believe so, feat I propose this impost, and feel confident,
feat those who are its objects will cheerfully defray it.
I thought it right to say feus much upon feis subject, because
some whose sentiments are the most adverse to my feelings will
be most ready to approve of feis measure, and with whose gene?
ral opinions I should be very sorry to agree, as I should to differ
from feose pf fee objects pf this impost, Those who are entitled
to use these marks of distinction I do not mean tp put to proof
of their strict and legal right to do so. I mean feat feey should
be left to their own discretion in that respect, in fee same manr
ner as those who take put game certificates ; leaving fee question
of fee origin of fee right to the determination of antiquarian
law. I therefore propose, that a tax of two guineas be imposed
upon all persons using carriages decorated with armorial bearr
ings ; ope guinea on feose who are housekeepers, and who make
use of plate decorated in fee same manner; and 10s. 6d. on ad
other persons not housekeepers, using their armorial bearings
in other ways. My data on which I am to proceed, are not, I
•ponfess, extremely accurate ; but I find, from fee inspection,
made by the heralds, between 1615 aDd l67P, that the number
pf the heads qf families by the last return, given in the year
1670, amounted to 8405. Allowing, therefore, for the extinc
tion of many families since, and the substitution of many more,
1 shall take fee whole number at 9453, who will not, it is to be

}798,] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 297
presumed, lay this distinction aside. I shall estimate under each
name six housekeepers bearing arms, and multiplying the first
number of 9453 by 6, we shall have a product of 56,718 ; to
which may be added 4000 more from Ireland. 1 shall suppose
12,000 of these keeping carriages with armorial bearings, which
at 2/. 2s. each, will give a sum of 24,000/.— 48,000. not keep
ing carriages will produce 50,000/. ; and as I shall not take more
than two persons to each family at 1 0s, 6d. this will give a far
ther sum of 66,000/. making a gross sum of 140,000/. ;v to which
may be added 10,000/, more, under certain regulations, for fo
reigners, so as to pake
The whole amount to ------_,. 150,000 ,
Which together with the sum estimated for salt - 503,000
For tea ----- - ...... . 11 1 00O

Makes in all - £ 764,000

This, which I have now stated, is fee whole amount of fee
Supplies for the present year : and I hope it will appear to the
committee, feat fee statements which 1 made before Christmas
last, as to fee probable amount of feese supplies, were correct; and
that I have not exceeded in any respect the sums, which I supposed
at that time fee public service would require. This can be shewn
by the manner in which the ways and means are provided for-
Nothing can bear a stronger testimony of fee opinion of the
country at large, as to the spirit which animates all ranks of peo
ple, and fee greatness of our resources, than the favourable
terms upon which fee loan has been contracted for. And I hope
that fee committee will be of opinion, that fee taxes to defray
the interest on that loan, are founded on a plan that will be as
likely to render them productive as any other which could be
laid before the house : they are calculated to bear as lightly on all
classes of people as any burden which could be laid upon the pub
lic ; and as I can see no solid objection which can be made against
feem by any person, I hope I have in feis measure, as well as
1

298 MR, PiTTS [May25>
in every other thing relating to fee supplies ofthe year, discharg
ed my duty to feis house and to the cOuntry.
Mr. Pitt thfen concluded by moving resolutions pursuant to fee
statements in his speech.
The resolutions were severally put and agreed to.

May 25, 1798.
Mr. Pitt, conformably to the notice he had previously given, apd after
stating that the object of his motion Was precisely the same ivith that> for
which a similar bill had been brought in in the year 1779, namely, to sus
pend for a limited time the protections which various descriptions of persons
enjoy, to prevent them from being impressed into the service of the navy,
moved for leave to bring in a bill for the more effectual manning of his Ma
jesty's navy ; at the same time intimating, that, as the present alarming situ
ation of the country made it necessary that this measure should be passed
without any delay, he should wish that the bill might this day proceed
through its different stages, with a suitable pause at each, if required, and
that it should be sent to the Lords for their concurrence.
Mr. Tierney complained ofthe very extraordinary and precipitate manner in
which the right honourable gentleman had called upun the house to adopt the
measure proposed. He had heard no arguments, he said, that proved its pro
priety ; he knew of no sudden emergency that urged its necessity ; even if he
. had, some time ought to have been allowed him to weigh the force of such ar
guments, and examine the nature of such ah emergency, before he proceeded
to give three or four votes on a measure of which no notice of ariy sort had
been given ; and of which no idea had ever entered his mind. If the right
honourable gentleman persisted in hurrying the bill through the house in the
manner proposed, he must give it his decided negative, however reluctantly
he opposed any measure that was said to be necessary to the safety of the
eountryT For, from what he had lately seen, he must view all the measures
ftf ministers as hostile to the liberty ofthe subject; and the present measure
he regarded with peculiar jealousy, as it went directly to rob them of thefew
remaining privileges they were still permitted to enjoy.
Mr. Pitt replied, that if every measure adopted against the
designs of France, was to be considered as hostile to fee liberty
of this country, then indeed his idea of liberty differed very widely
from feat which seemed to be entertained by the honourable

3798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 299
gentleman. The bouse would recollect, however that honour
able gentleman might say to the contrary, that he had given
notice of the present motion, though he had not judged it pru
dent then to explain the mode in which it was to be put into ex
ecution. Neither could it be fairly supposed, that the present
measure was to be brought forward as the usual one for aug
menting the navy. A bill of the nature of the latter was intro
duced about ten days ago; and at that time he stated to the
house, feat if they acceded to the proposed augmentation of the
navy, they must adopt some vigorous measure to make that
augmentation effectual, as nothing but a law of a vigorous nature
eould succeed in making the intended number of seamen com
plete. When the honourable gentleman complained of fee man
ner in which the bill was to be hurried through the house, and
hinted that it was too frequently resorted to, he saw the suspen
sion of fee habeas corpus act was lurking in his mind! The ho
nourable gentleman would have a long notice given ofthe pre
sent motion, and would retard its progress through tbe house.
He acknowledges that, were it not passed in a day, those whom
it might concern might elude its effect, feus assigning himself
the reason for its immediate adoption. But if the measure be
necessary, and feat a notice of it would enable its effect to be
eluded, how can the honourable gentleman's opposition to it be
accounted for, but from a desire to obstruct fee defence of fee
country ?
Mr. Pitt said, that he feared the house must wait a long.
Mr.Tierney called the right honourable gentleman to order. This language.
Sir, said he, is surely not parliamentary, and upon you only can 1 call for
protection. Tbe Speaker observed, that whatever had a tendency to throw suspicion on
the sentiments of a member, if conveyed in language that clearly marked
that intention, such language was, without doubt, irregular and unparlia
mentary ; but if it argued no suoh intention, there was no room for censuring
it as disorderly: if, therefore, it was the opinion of the House, that such was
the fair import of the language used by the right honourable gentleman, they
would judge of.it accordingly ; but they would first wait to hear the right ho
nourable gentleman's explanation.

300 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 3,
time, if they waited for his explanation on the present subject.
The sense of what he advanced was, that there w as no distinc
tion between the two cases in question. That if notice was to
be given of the measure under consideration, feat notice would
only serve to elude its execution, and therefore no man could
be justified in opposing the necessary expedition feat made
fee measure effectual ; or if he did, he must surely appear
to obstruct fee measures employed for the defence of fee coun
try. He knew very well feat it was unparliamentary to state
fee motives that actuated fee opinions of gentlemen, but it was
impossible to go into arguments in favour of a question, without
sometimes hinting at the motives that induced an opposition to
it. He submitted to fee judgment of the bouse the propriety and
necessity of the arguments he had urged, and he would not de
part from any thing he had there advanced, by either retracting
or explaining them.*
The bill afterwards went through all its stages, and was ordered to be car
ried to the Lords ; from whom a message was returned in a few minutes, that
their Lordships had agreed to the bill.

December 3, 1798.
Mil, Pitt moved the order ofthe day for the House to resolve itself into a
jCommittee of Ways and Means, to consider of a supply to be granted to his
Majesty. The House having resolved itself into the said committee, Mr. Pitt further
moved, that the act of the 38th of his present Majesty, chap. 16, for grant
ing an aid or contribution to his Majesty, might be read, and that it might be
an instruction to the committee to consider ofthe said act; which being
agreed to, he then addressed the committee as follows:
Before I proceed to submit to the committee fee very im
portant matters which form fee subject of this day's considera-
* In consequence of what passed between Mr. Pitt and Mr. Tierney on this
occasion, a meeting took place on the 27th, at three o'clock in the afternoon,
on Putney Heath. Mr. Pitt was accompanied by Mr. Ryder, and Mr.
Tierney by Sir George Walpole.

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 3oi
tion, I conceive it necessary to take a diligent review of the ge
neral amount of fee total services of the present year, and of
fee ways and means applicable to those services. Without adopt
ing this method, I do not think it would be possible to inform
your judgment with any degree of accuracy, respecting the pro
priety of fee measure I have to propose, for raising a consider
able part of the supplies within the year, or be able to enforce
those arguments I shall adduce in support of that measure. It
is a matter of extreme satisfaction to me, that it will appear to
the committee, from the estimate I shall now produce, com
pared wife former estimates, that although our expenses^ are
beyond what they ever were, yet that our means of supplying
them are so ample and extensive, that -fee country is placed in a
proud and eminent situation, beyond what it has enjoyed at any
former period.
I shall begin by stating what has been voted as tbe amount of
the supply under the head of fee services for fee navy, with fee
exceptiou of what is necessary for transport services. All these
accounts have this day been laid before us ; and it appears that
fee total sum for the ordinaries and extraordinaries of fee navy <
and transport services amounts to 13,642,000/. being the same
sum, within a very small amount, as was granted in the course
of last session, and which I have fee satisfaction of assuring the
committee is likely to prove sufficient for the whole expenses of
fee navy, without leaving any necessity for augmentation. The
next head of expense is fee army, in which the estimates amount
to 8,840,000/. Gentlemen will recollect the extraordinaries in
the course of last sessiou, to be incurred in 1798, were stated
at 3,200,000/. There was also voted a sum of 1 ,000,000/. as a
After some ineffectual attempts, on the part of the seconds, to prevent fur
ther proceedings, the parties took their ground at the distance of twelve paces.
A case of pistols was fired at the same moment without effect; a second case
was also fired in the same way, Mr. Pitt firing his pistol in the air : the se
conds then jointly interfered, and insisted that the matter should go no far
ther, it being their decided opinion that sufficient satisfaction had been given,
and that, the business was ended with perfect honour to both partiei.

302 , MR. PITT'S [Dec. S,
•vote of credit, applicable as extraordinaries to unforeseen ex
penses. This vote of credit will cover all the extraordinary ex*
penses to the end of fee year, so that, as in fee article of the
navy, feere will be no past arrears to be discharged. But with
respect to fee vote of credit for this year, one million will be
wanted to discharge feat amount issued in exchequer bills.
Under the article, then, of army expenditure, there remain fee
extraordinary services of fee year l7i>9, which I may put at
two millions. Thus the total amount, under the head of army,
will be 8,840,000/. including fee one million for the discharge of
exchequer bills issued, and two millions for tbe extraordinary
services of 1799. Under the head of ordnance services, includ-
ing the expenses which have not been provided for, there has
been voted fee sum of 1,570,000/. The next article is that of
fee miscellaneous services. The plantation estimates- have al
ready been voted, but there are ofeer minuter parts of feose
services which have not yet undergone a discussion in this house.
The amount will be rather less fean it was last session. I state
it 600,'OOOZ. To this is to be added the usual sum voted to
wards tbe redemption of fee national debt, above the annual
million, which is 200,0001. There are ofeer sums, which are
generally voted under fee head of deficiency of grants. Among
these is a sum due for interest on treasury and exchequer bills
paid off, amounting to 565,000/. ; fee discount on prompt pay
ments upon fee loan, amounting to 210,000/. ; fee interest on
exchequer hills circulated within the year, and charged upon the
succeeding year, 300,000/. ; in addition to this, there is fee de
ficiency of the land and malt in the act passed two years ago,
amounting to 300,000/. These sums swell the total of the sup-
¦ ply to 29,272,000/. This total, Sir, does not differ in any mate
rial degree from the amount of fee supply of last session.
Towards raising this supply, it will naturally occur to fee
mind of every gentleman in the committee, that fee same re
sources will l?e applicable as are always applicable at all periods,
whether of peace or of war. The land and malt have always
been taken at 2,750,000/. : there remains the lottery, which wilL

1793.] ' PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. sttJ
not produce less than 200,000/. and fee growing produce of the
consolidated fond- I have stated these articles first, for reasons
which will be obvious to the committee. These are the ordi
nary resources. The growing produce of the consolidated fund
would amount for one year to 2,100,000/. but in the course of
the present year that produce will be affected by some heavy
burdens ;— by the remains of charges in arrears ; by the interest,
if it is still to remain a burden upon us, on fee imperial loan;
and by fee growing interest on such parts of loans raised on fee
( credit of levying any tax, for which no interest has been pro
vided. On fee other band, the growing produce will be swelled
by the advances to the planters of Grenada, amounting to
800,000/. 1 take, therefore, the probable growing produce of
the consolidated fond at 1 ,500,000/. In addition to this, and
independently of the voluntary contributions, a tax was laid in
the last session of parliament upon fee exports and imports,
founded upon the peculiar situation of our trade, as it then
stood. That tax, Sir, has not only yielded to the full amount
pf what I estimated it at, but has even exceeded it ; and I have
the satisfaction of finding, that now, when that trade is brought
to the test of a duty upon the declarations of the parties them
selves, allowing them indulgences, and granting them a deducr
tion of ten per cent. — I have, I repeat, Sir, fee satisfaction vof
stating, feat the total amount of our exports and imports ex
ceeds, in a large degree, the largest sum that any man ever yet
ventured to state upon the subject. That duty I estimated to
produce the sum of 1,200,000/. I have the best reason for be
lieving that the actual produce of it will be much beyond feat
sum. In addition to this duty upon exports and imports, and
which, as far as can be done without diminishing our resources,
which must be contemplated wife the greatest exultation, be
cause they prove fee extent" of our commerce, in addition to that
duty, now that the whole trade ofthe West Indies is centered in
this country, a reduction may be made with advantage to the na
tion in fee large sums paid upon drawbacks, and bounties upon
exports. Into feis subject, however, it is not my intention to

304 MR. PITT'S [Dfec. S)
enter at fee present moment. I mention it, because it will
make au increase to the tax upon exports and imports, which I
have every reason to believe will amount, with that increase, to
1,700,000/. I have feus enumerated fee principal articles :
The land and malt --  £. 2,750,000
Lottery ----------- 200,000
The growing produce of the consolidated fund 1,500,000
The tax upon imports and exports - -- - 1,700,000

Total •£. 6,150,000
The remainder ofthe sum is feat which must be raised either
by a tax within fee year, in fee same manner as the assessed
tax bill of last year, or by a loan. It will be to be considered,
how the committee will divide that remaining sum between them.
The. sum to be provided for is upwards of twenty-three millions.
Gentlemen will recollect, that, in the debates upon the 'subject
of the assessed taxes last session, two fundamental principles
were established as fee rule by which we should be guided in
providing for fee supplies for the service of the year. These
were, first, to reduce the total amount to be at present raised
by a loan ; and next, as far as it was not reducible, to reduce it
to such a limit, feat no more loan should be raised fean a tem
porary tax should defray within a limited time. In the first
place, the tax acceded to by the house last session was for the
purpose of providing for the supplies of fee year ; and in the
next place, for fee purpose of extinguishing the loan raised in
feat year. From the modifications, however, which that mea
sure underwent after its being first proposed, the produce of it
was diminished to a considerable extent. Other means indeed
were adopted to remedy the deficiency which was thus occasion
ed. — The voluntary and cheerful efforts which, so honourably .to
individuals, and to fee country, came in aid of the deficit of the
assessed taxes, and fee superior produce of the exports and im
ports beyond fee estimate, brought fee amount of fee sums
raised to that at which they had been calculated. The different ar-„

i7fl!i] ' PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 306
tides were estimated at seven millions and a half, and this sum
is fully covered by fee actual receipt under fee distinct heads.
It gives me, indeed, the most heartfelt satisfaction to-6tate, that
-notwithstanding fee difficulties which fee measure encountered
from fee shameful evasion, or rather the scandalous frauds by
which its effects were Counteracted; the total amount which was
expected bas yet been realized. The meanness which shrunk
from fair and equal contribution has been Compensated to fee
public by fee voluntary exertions of patriotism. The produce of
¦the assessed taxes, under all the modifications, and all fee eva
sions,- is four millions; I had taken it at four and a half after
the modifications were adopted. This deficiency is supplied by
the excess on fee head of voluntary contributions. In propor
tion as fee one has fallen short of the estimate; the Other has gone
beyond it in favour of the country. If I did not calculate the eva
sion, the fraud, and the meanness which have struggled to defeat
-the operation of the assessed taxes; and I mention it with shame
that in a moment like fee present, in a contest so awfully inte
resting to every individual and to the nation; there have been
men base enough to avail themselves of the general modifica
tions which were intended to relieve those who might have been
called upon to contribute beyond feeir means, to avoid that fair
assessment which corresponded with their circumstances, I am,
-happy to find that fee honour of the nation has been vindicated
by the noble and generous aid of voluntary contribution, and
that the sum which I had stated is greatly exceeded. Not only
in this country but in every part of the British dependencies the
patriotic spirit has displayed itself, and wherever they wfere
¦placed; fee subjects of England have shewn1 themselves worthy
of the relations by which feey are connected with feeir countty.
Instead of 1 ;500;00t»/. the voluntary Contributions already ex
ceed two millions; and fee sum of seven millions and a half,
for which credit was taken, has-been effective to the public
service; Satisfactory as it rriust be. to review fee circumstances to which
i»e owe these advantages, and the benefits which the mode of
t«l,. Ill; < - X

me '¦-'" 'MIR- .'PITTS :'•;/" t ftec.?,
ruaksirjg the -supplies to:a CQnsideiiable extent adopted las,t-sessipn
has produced, it lis unnecessary, for me to ; state;, -fea-t, .however
tfee principleimaydeserveour approbation, .it -isi stiM-much/to bp
'desired that its effeets should be more extensive, and its applica
tion more efficient. It'is in vain to ,disguise feat, hy fee; causes
¦to which I have alluded, fee: foil advantage, of tbe .principle has
.hot been obtained. ,,; The wishes land the interest/of-iutlijviduals, J
,«.ta sure, must unite undemanding a more comprehensive, (amors
iequali, and a more vigorous application of a principle,/ fee rare
¦advantages of which we have been able to -ascertain,; if we have
not yetbeen so fortunate, as .to1 enjoy. Last session >feosp wh©
acknowledged the importance of ifee principle of raising a con-
s,idera,ble:parf pf fee supplies within the yeai!, -confined- their ob
jections to :fee;prpportion fiiseld upoh fee Scale of the ^assessed
taxes,/as unequal in its. application,' and liable roigreat 'evasion
iin, practice. Though not insensible iof fee weight of fed objection,
I then felt itimy duty, fcOnvineed:as:Lwas of fee immense -ad vatt-
-tages Of fee system, to adopt some sisibIe>criterion hy whiidh to
estimate and to i regulate fee extent of -contributiony df it was' not
.possibleto devise-means of embraicing fully everyiclass-dfipro-
perty, and every- source -Of contribution.' -, Tfelt it ¦materiallyim'-
•iportanit, , to follow, some durable^ * some apparemtand sensible* bri-
iterion, by which- to apportion fee ibiaarden*. ¦ At ;the saraie ! timel
(felt, that- although 'fee assesseditaxes-fidrhished feeimdstcornpird-
•hensive,, and most genera), /and the most efficient scale of icoW-
tribution, feere necessarily -must be much infloirt©, niuchj-^ealth,
-great means, which: were-nDt included; fo its (application. v It^how
appears that not by aoy error in fee calculation of our resources,
not by any exaggeration: of our wealth, (but by rthe general' faci
lity of modification, by the anxiety to render the! measure ias little
oppressive as possible, -a defalcation has arisen which t ought ndt
to haye taken .place. : , Yet under the disadvantage and (kripef-
fectioiis of an unequal and inadequate scale of lapplicafriab; tbe
effects ofthe measure have tended to confirm our estimates' of fits
benefits, and to encourage us to persevere in its principle^ ': Every
circumstance in our situation, : every eyent hi the ret'rospeetirf

np«J • PARLIAMENTARY /SPEECHES. '307
-our affairs, every thing which strikes ovJr view bis weiook' arotind
jus, denNsmstrates.' ithe advantages of the (system • of raising a cons
iderable part of : the supplies wittorn fete year, and bought to i«-
Iduce us to enforce it more effectudiyi to prevent', fhosc frauds,
jwkieh am imperfect criterion and iadodse" facility -of rabdifioatioh
^ave introduced ; to repress those evasions' so disgraceful to the
country,. so -injurious to those who honourably 'discharge their
equal contribution, and, above all, so detrimental. -to fee greaft
tabjectofuiastionaladviantageiwliichiit is'iutended tojpromote; la
Hhese'seBtiments, ourleading .principle should be tog-Uardagaiiiyt
iaUevisiony to endeavour by affair and! strict iapplieatibri, to'tea1-
•fe thatfoll tentfe, which at was- fee Original purpose 'Of ;the mtea1-
.surfedf fee-iassessed taxes to obtain, 'and'to extend this aS'far ate
^pssible in -fevery direction, tilhit may be nerJessaiiy clearly tb
¦to&rkilhe modification, >orto renounce; in certain instances, 'fee
application of it 'altogether. - If then,- -fee cdmmittee'asstent to
thispTineiplej'feey mu'stifoel fee .necessity of following it tip, by
irnrafe Comprehensive- scale 'and by more ! efficient pro vistast
'Ehey'wftlfp^ree'Wethe 'necessity of obtaining a ¦WfJre'ispec5lrib
istS&taiettt bfincoute, fean fee loose scale of-r#ox3'ineatiGn,'tomfcfi,
"iJWfcr fee forrniePMieas' lire, permitted 'such-ftetud ind ¦e'viasiori. ; 'If
¦suC-li a provision be requisite to correct jRe abuses of Collection,
Ho'ebviate the artifices ' of dishonesty, tclexteiid the-'utility of fefe
'ttholeisystenijit will bei found that many of the regulgJtidns' of the
-olti!meaB(ire will be -adapted to a more comprehensive and'errl-
'Oient application of fee principle* 'If regulations can be devised
'to prevent an -undue abatement, and to proportion -fee burden to
itheiteal lability,, means must be employed to reach feose' re
sources which-,- primd fade, ' it is impossible -under !fee present
system df the assessed taxes to touch. -While iiia-dc'tfr'aCy., fraud,
inequality be gfie\JahceS, which it is desJrabte .to {remedy, "it will
dseanadditianahsaiisfactibii^thlatwbeneompdlea'to'adopt^iearrs to prevent fee- defects of which we complain, we "shall be'enabled
'likewise toimprdse and toi extend-- the benefitswe have obtained.
The experience which we have bad upon feejsiibjett; proves that
•we must correct and remedy, in order'to secure fee 'advantages
X 2

308 MR. PUT'S, fTJEClJ,
which the measure is calculated to afford. It is in our power to
make them our own. I think I can shew that whatever benefit
fee principle upon which we have begun to act, is fitted to be
stow, may by a liberal, fair and efficient application, be( carried
to an extent far greater than has yet been obtained, an extent
equal to every object of great and magnanimous effort, to every
purpose of national safety and glory, to every advantage/ of per
manent credit and of enereased prosperity.
, Impressed then with fee importance of tbe subject, convinced-
feat we ought, as far as possible, to prevent all evasion and
fraud, it remains for us to consider, by what means these defects
may be redressed, by what means a more equal scale of contri
bution can be applied, and a more extensive effect obtained.
For this purpose it is my intention to propose, feat the presunrp-
. tion founded upon the assessed taxes shall belaid aside, and that
a general tax shall be imposed upon all fee leading branches -of
income, .^o scale of income indeed which can be devised will be
perfectly free from the. objection of inequality, or entirely cut off
.fee, possibility of evasion. All that can be attempted is, to ap-
proach as near at circumstances will permit to a fair and eqyal
contribution. I trust that the opinion of the country will concur
with the disposition of parliament to give that energy to our exer
tions', to give that stability tp our resources,, which our present
situation and our future prosperity demand. I trust feat all who
value fee national honour, and the national safety, will co-ope
rate in the desirable purpose of obtaining, by an efficient and
comprehensive tax upon real ability, every advantage which
flourishing and invigorated resources can confer upon national'
efforts. The details of a measure which attempts an end so great
and important, must necessarily require serious aad- mature deli
beration. At present .ail that 1 ean pretend to do is, to ky be
fore fee committee an outline of' a plan which endeavours to
combine every thing at whieh such a measure ought to aim. This
outline I shall now proceed to- :de-velope to fee committee as
clearly and distinctly as 1 am able.
It will occur to every one to enquire what species of comrais-

mt.} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 309
sioners shall be vested wife the power of fixing the rate of assess
ment under a measure which must leave considerable discre
tionary power. In such commissioners several qualifications are
in a particular manner desirable. They ought to be persons of a
respectable situation in life; as far as possible removed from any
suspicion of partiality, or any kind of undue influence ; men of
integrity and independence. From the experience which we
have had of the benefits derived from fee voluntary exertions of
such a body .of commissioners, we may be able to ascertain in
what classes to look for men qualified for fee important functions
which the office would impose. Still, however, I should con
sider it necessary to vary somewhat from the mode pursued in
forming the commissioners of the land-tax. After much con
sideration, -then, it occurs to me that, out ofthe commissioners
appointed under the act for assessing the land-tax, a certain
proportion should be taken with given qualifications. I should'
think that no man should be admitted to act as commissioner
for the purposes to be afterwards specified, who does not possess
300/. per annum. To feese, ofeer persons of similar qualifica
tions should be added, and the list so framed to be referred to
the grand jury, or feose who have served on the two last grand
juries to form the commissioners. In case the party is dissatis
fied wife the decision of these commissioners, another body of
commissioners shall be formed, to whom an appeal may be car
ried. Id commercial towns some special provisions will be ne- :
cessary, adapted to the nature of circumstances.
The next point for consideration, then,, is fee mode of contri
bution which shall be adopted. On feis head it is my intention
to propose, that no income under 60/. a year shall be called upon
to contribute, and that the scale of modification up to 200/. a
year, as in the assessed taxes, shall be introduced with restric
tion. The quota which will then be called for ought to amount
to a full tenth of the contributor's income. The mode proposed
of obtaining this contribution differs from feat pursued in the
assessed taxes, as instead of trebling feeir amount, fee statement
of income is to proceed from fee party himself. In doing this
x 3

&# . ^' ^'JiiflRywrirffii-'" -''-'^ [Djfe's;
it is- not' proposed feat income sh^H'.'fo^'distinctly' laid open, but'
its-ball dn'ly-'be- «teelare<3 that the assessment- is beyortdifee pro-
portion of a'fonth bfiBhe'-iflGo-m^-of' thepersomoin whom it istirn-.
p*ised.' Ilt'feiB- way I hope>! -that the disclosure; at; which mamyi
may revolt witl be avoided^ and'ats the same timeeveryiman' w,Mb
\k> under the 'necessity, of contributing bis fair and' equal' proper-
tion.,: Howvfeerij it- willrb&'askfed, -isevaeian audi frau'#-to Be'
cheeked1?: Knowing 'the difficulty of .guessing what: a\ mattes real'
ability- is, I do'nofc feinft featifee cbarg&safi.fixing whbtis-tobe«
tterato,btigblJ tQ=be left- to ithe- commissioners. It wouldv -L'aftj'
persuaded,' bei-most acceptable to -fee general feeling, to nhakeiit'
fee duty: of a.paiirtieniiia«>.offide>i4 as- surveyor^ to lay before. tfee--
cojjBni.tBsieiners.siTch grounds of doubt, asmay OEOurtohiiruoii'the'
fair,ness oft fee -rate at which -a par^y may have1 assessed1 himself>
Tshesesdoubtsy. and the1' reasons4 on which- they are foundedy are-
then to4ie transmitted1 by fee- surveyor1 to fee-commissioners'; irri
oj-deri.featitibiey. may call 'for farther* explanation from the-'persdn-
daiteerqed... Wlien-in trte case: ofthe assessed taieswei have Had'''
scuttiMchfjeaipewenoe of- fee evasions- which have taken place;
when we, see<.i the consequences which bave ; resulted from a-
vague: rule of- exerhpfjiony andan indefinite' prinoiplei.of deduct
tioSi;;.when we sejethat; toy'the different' modes by which exempli.
tipnsiwere.iiegolatedi per-sons»,:-wfao--p<robably' would haveshpunte
frQiiii a^direct faud, bavgbeen able-bjf'differeht^pretences; to-disv
giiiae; to .themselves' fee fair and adequate propoi-tiow:whieh feey
ought to have contributed^ W becomes: more than ever necessary j
toi irenden every case -of;eHe«ip&Qn< preteise, antd to guard: every
titlajto ded'oEtfon; from- the danger ofbeitig abused1.-, At-tne'same
time, under every disadvantage of 'the. utirestri*ted;application. of '
deduction.).' and theeasy- commission of frailtd, we bav& yet- ample1
pnaof-ofioiir. national; wealth- and general honesty. To- prevent
the- country from. suffering; by dishowesty, to prevent>the willing
contributor from- being. -taxed' fo: -fee- utmost proportion1 of his-
meansy whilebi? Wealthy neighbour owes his exemption to-mean*
nessyit'is necessary to 'g-oard'wjth greater strictness against every-
chance' of evasion.- Wben 'doubts are enteptained- feat-a- false-
statement has been given, it shall be competent for the commis-r

nbs.y parliamentary; speeches. ¦ 311
sioners-to call for a specification- of income. It will' be necessary
to'simplify and to state with precision the different proportions of -
inriohie arising ¦ from land, from trade/ antMiityy or profession,
which shall entitle' to deduction. The camrnissioners' are then >
to saywhether they are satisfied with the statement which has
beeh; given. Tlie officer "or surveyor is to be alio wed Uo'exa*
itrine and' to report' whether feere- appears reason to ; believe-'
that fee assessment is adequate. When- fete! day of examination"
arrives, fee commissioners shall hear what the surveyor- arid 'the-'
party have to allege in support of the' objection, and the assess*
ment, and examine ofeer individuals; The schedule, "¦ which
sliall1 be ' drawn up' in such a manner as accurately to define!
every case of exemption or deduction, shall be presented'by fee-
party,' with his claim clearly specified; To the'trutb-' of' th^
schedule he'shall make oath. The- party, however, shall not be--
cerripelled- to answer ; his books sbaill not be called for, nor his'
confidential clerks- or agents- examined. If, however;' he de
clines to submit' to the: investigation of his; books, and tbe exa--
mination'of'hiis derks; and other means of ascertaining' fee truths-
it shall be; competent for the commissioners' to -fhtfee: assessment;;
and'feeir decision-shall be final, unless he appeals- to the higher
commissioners. 'Nb disclosure' is compulsory; but. if thepartyi
isuriwilling to: disclose, he must acquiesce' in- fee decision. of: the,
ct'mmiSsiohe'rsy who shall not be authorised to relieve] without /a<
full disclosure. - >. > ¦ ¦'¦ ---,- ';
¦This,1 I 'am perfectly ready to admit, gives, to the dommissidn-
ers'oonsiderabie^ower1. ' But' I 'think,. Sir; Lhaue stated Enough!
to-shew to the' committee, feat, uriless some such powers. be af-i
forded nnder this' act, the* real and substantial-effect of the mea*
sure will be entirely :defeated.: T think, too, I have proved, feat
commissioners,' selected hi' 'the manner -I havedescribedj. are'asi
likely to be asfree from' all undue influence,- andto act with as
milch integrity and honour, as anyiofeer-set ofmemwhiatever. If,
however, abetter modeshouldbe'Suggested; sq fair from opposing
itj'I 'shall'Coiisi'der-it asa melibratfen1 and' improvement of my
plan;' Witl* respe^t'tO-the-information whidhinayi be communi-
x4

312 ' MR. PITT'S [Dec. 3,
cated to fee commissioners, I should propose that they shall be,
strictly sworn not to disclose such information, nor to avail them
selves of it for any other purpose separate from fee execution of
fee act. If any statement, hpwever, should be made upon oath,
which the commissioners shall think to be false, and which they,
may wish to bring to a trial, it must be obvious to fee commit
tee that then feere ought to be afforded fee means pf carrying on.
a prosecution for perjury. But on no qther ground should there
be any disclosure of facts by the commissioners, or any of the
other officers appointed to carry the act into ex'ecqtion.
Haying said thus much, Sir, having laid down these general
principles, and outlines, 1 cannot feel, that if commissioners ofthe,
description I have alluded to can be found, bound to execute
feeir duty fairly and impartially, arid sworn to secresy— say, if
such men pan be selected, I cannot feel, however strong the ob-„
jections may be against fee disclosure of circumstances, feat any
statement made to such commissioners is liable to fee general a
objection against public disclosures of fee incomes and circuni-,
stances of individuals in a commercial country; at least, Sir, I,
am sure there is every disposition in the plan to guard against it.
There is little danger, I conceive, feat such commissioners will
act partially, or will conduct themselves vexatiously ; and, in my
opinion, feere does not remain apy fair ground for jealousy in in
dividuals, that a disclosure to such men will give to persons in,
fee same line of life any advantages over them.
Perhaps, however, Sir, there is one class of ;men to whom it may
be for the committee to determine whether fee measure shall ex
tend, and whether they ought not to remain exceptions to the
act. Arqpng the descriptions of persons to whom it may remain
for the committee to consider whether a disclosure would not be
detrimental, is the class which includes the poorest persons en-,
gaged in mercantile concerns ; a class whose gains are most pre
carious, whose credit may be piost doubtful, and most injured by;
a disclosure— I speak of the person^ engaged in retail trades, to
whom fee assessed tax b>U of lastsession gave great indulgen-,
cies, considering that fee. relief of abatement was one of which,

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 31$
they could not avail themselves, without greater inconvenience
and injury to feem, perhaps, than to persons of higher rank, and
of a higher description of mercantile traders. I wish, therefore,
the committee to consider whether it may not be as well to leave
that class to pay on the mitigated rate of assessment to which
they are liable under fee assessed tax bill, as to subject them to
the general rate of fee present bill. It will also naturally enter
into fee consideration of the committee, what allowances or ex
emptions ought to 'be extended to ofeer descriptions of persons.
In fee last act, certain allowances and abatements were granted
to persons with large families. That principle it will certainly
he proper to extend to this measure ; and the only doubt which
I entertain upon the subject is, whether it was carried far enough
in the bill of last year. If this suggestion be admitted, it will
naturally be a matter of doubt, whefeer the principle iii the last.'
bill, with respect to persons having no families, ought not to be
extended. It will also very reasonably occur to the minds of.
the .committee, feat it is of the utmost importance to fee due
execution of fee act, that, as far as the general principles can be
laid down for establishing a rate of landed property, or what,
may be the proper average of incomes which are subject to aver
age, the rates in the last act should be subject to correction and
improvement. By fee operation of feese powers, and by the
influence of feese rules, we may expect to arrive more nearly at
that fair proportion which each man ought to contribute towards
the exigencies, and for fee service of the country.
The next consideration to which I wish to direct the attention
ofthe committee, is one liable to more difhcultyjand doubt, upon
which gentlemen will be aware that every thing must be conjec
tural, but in which we are still not without lights to guide us— I
mean as to the probable amount of a tax of feis kind. The com
mittee must be convinced, that what I shall state will be with
doubt and uncertainty. I shall, however, submit to the view of
the house the information I have collected, the authorities with
which I am fortified, and the grounds upon which I proceed. And
first, Sir, I shall proceed to state what is the first great object of

mm. •-.¦•i;i'j.-;;5--i;-wiiL'*rPF8' tJ.::',t« -[Dbsx-s^
iffGdme.' ' I' Mean; fee property derived from; land1.'1 tlpbf? ttrfsJ
point 1: have1 eonSulted'the; best opinions*,' and' au'thorsdfthatnrjst1
acknowledged-merit. Upon: fete subject Of ttere'ntrof'thelahdbf
fei* Country, Sir' William Petty1 is:: the 'earliest author whouri'
Have consulted, butlupbn•'wh'oin,, 1 shall not dwell' inticfi. A>t the-
titite'Hewrote, the rent. of '4 andHvas stated at eighVfrJillionsi" Iha'
subsequent period; ' in fee 'beginning' of feis-cen itury', and' in-.the'
reignof Queen Anne,1 two1 writers of credit, Da'vefiant and-Kipg;'
represented the-' -'rent of land' tb'be ] 4tfi0O,O&Ol'.! However' they'
rjlffered-iori other points, on this they both 'agreed. Posterior to
that'tirhe ft 'was1 a' received opinion, that1 a' land-tax offourshil-'
lings in fee pound was equivalent to-about tWO'shilllngstof'what*
would'be cbllecte'd'oii'fee real 'rents of tlte'kifjgdom, Which were*
sta-fed'to1 arribunt to twenty millions; ' '¦ FulI'twentyyi'arS'agS fete
was1 said 'fry 'a writer; who -wasalso a member of this house, 'and1
who, in a workbewrdte,' expressly recommended 'fee very prin-
rjf'ple 'which-' T have submitted to the committee this day.: "The"
s^ffie-esrimate^as; 'stated; and' the 'Same1 opinion1 was cdtinte*
Aafcti^d by thfe' authority of the celebrated author- Of the'Treatise1
dir'fee'' Wealth" 6£ Na't-ions,' A'danr Sftiife. 'He'receitetf it asa
statement generally admitted; 'atad- sufficiently proved; feat 'tllia
i*eW! Wf'the'landin fed. kingdom was twenty-millions yearly. In a
wiork-p'ublislied'aslbriga'go-as'-feeyear l,?74r, Mft Arthur Youtlgj
^io.'had; made agricultural pursuits his-study* has advanced fee
?ame'c-pintoiii-:I'lnientilC'B alHWese- authorities, to'sliewiwhat has
been <he amountVof-the rent df land- at different periods* I-Sta'ta
tlierr* also to sbew how 'great has-been fee increase ;upon-i(;>with-
jn -fee-last ten years ; but if any7 of 'those' aufeoritieSiSHo-uld'Still
notbe free from exuggeration,'th'e committee wiMat'least'see feat
any estimate which I 'may rfiake' is not likely to' be one' which is
much beyond probability-. riiave-badalso, Sir,, the 'advantage
of 'other inquiries made expressly- by abody who have made the
euUivatibn'o'fihe land tlit>ir peculiar province — I' mean' tbe board
ofagriculUirc 'PalluaVrnare^particuiarly to one repdi'tpubilteti*
ed by ^"person witty made this1 part ofthe subjeCt'hisstu^y.Uhe
report dravvn up by'M^r.-'I^Md'tefotti- ' Ail' theBe^cheefeetl wife

1.7CS?} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 315*
other examinations^ state the whole amount:- of fee cultivated/
land' of'the-conntry. to amqunt to little less than, forty, million&of--
acree. Any attempt to state what is the- average value of these
forty' millions of acres* must* be, the committee wilL sse,. in;itS'
nature extremely uncertain. A& for as: the'inqwiries I have made'
have- enabled' me to obtain' a-ny information, 1 find that many-
persons most' conversant- upon' the subject believe fee average i
value to; he fifteen shillings per acre. I*shall,bowever, take it:
at no more than twelve- shillings, and six-pence. In doing feis,
perhaps, lam rafeerunder fee marb, but I' wilt pat the average.
value-at twenty-five* mi'Hrons-ayear; Andgentfomen^surely will-
see, that when 1 take the number of acres at forty millions, and
tbe average value at only twelve- shillings and sixpence per acre,
tbe result is only an increase of five- millions beyond what it was
twenty years ago; ' and that therefore I' cannot be considered as- a'
very sang-uineJcalculator. However, in this part of fee subject,
I desire fee committee to bear in mind, that it will be proper to
propose a^redtiction for all under 60l. a year, and 'feat the same
modifications be admitted into this act as- in fee assessed-tax
bill— I mean fee scale of income from 6ol: to 200/. a year, and-
rising from a-one hundred and- twentieth pafl-t to a tenth. I mean
on this-account to assume- a deduction of one-fiftb, and' to state
tire- taxable property- at only twenty millions.- '
I 'shall next proceed to state feat part- of income from TandL
whicb belongs to the tenant. I propose' to value' every man ac
cording to his rent, making only -a deductionfor repairs. ' What
Ishall'suggest for the further consideration of fee committee, is-
three-'fourths-ofthe rack rent' which the tenant'pays to fee land
lord.; The value of the income from land which belongs- to the
tenant I ttrke at- nineteen millions; the income- to the landlord,
as I have before said, at twenty-fi-ve millions. " Instead of de
ducting only one-fifth, as I have suggested- with- respect to the
landlord, T shall -propose with respect to the tenant; to deduct -
two.thi.rds-, leaving five- millions as the taxable property of the'
tenants. Tbe next income arising from land, is an income which
is received 'neither by thelandlord, nor by the tenant— :I meaqr
1

3if? MR. PITT'S [Dec 3,
what is received from tithes. This is an income enjoyed, as fee
committee know, either by lay impropriators,' or by the clergy.
The statements of fee amount pf the tithes are different ; but I
estimate the value of feem to be five millions. If gentlemen!
suppose fee amount of tbe cultivated land in fee country to be
forty millions of acres, and the average value to be twenty-five
millions, feey will find, I believe, my valuation to be very mode
rate : it is also Mr. Arthur Young's statement. Upon this subr
ject of litbes, I propose to allow a deduction of one-fifth, though,
perhaps, I may be considered as stating the reduction too large
ly ; but gentlemen will consider tbe allowance to be made for
poor livings.
Another species of property is feat which arises from mines,-
and from shares in canals. There is also another property which
I have not included in the rents of land, I mean fee property aris- •
ing from the sale of timber. I take all feese three, the mines,
canals, and timber, at three millions.
Another species of rent is feat received for houses. 1 propose
to proceed ppon the rate which was followed in fee act of last
session. The committee are aware, feat to establish accurately
fee rent of bouses has ever been found to be impracticable, parti
cularly of houses- of fee higher description of rent, which have
always been undervalued. Out of fee number of 700,000 houses,
250,000 are calculated to pay to the assessed taxes; I shall
therefore lake fee rent of houses at no more than six millions.
In the early statements to which 1 -have alluded, the profits
gained by the professors of the law alone are stated at one mil
lion and a half; ,1 cannot suppose that they are at all diminishr
ed. Allowing, besides, for all fee branches of the medical pro
fession, I conceive feat two millions is a very small sum as the
amount of the incomes arising from the professions.
The next head of income relates to the profits of retail trade :
but there are persons of a certain description, with respect to
whom it will be necessary to make some allowance. The reduc
tion I shall propose to take at one eighth of fee net sum of fee
profits ofthe trade of Great Britain, after which there will re-

17gs.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 3T7
main a sum of 5,000,000/.' applicable to the general operation of
the tax. " ,
There will then remain another article of taxation, which is
the income spent in this country by persons who derive it from
other parts of fee world ; and unquestionably all who reside in
this kingdom, and draw feeir means from sources out of it, can
not be dissatisfied at contributing to feeir own support and pro
tection. Of this description, the only persons I shall think it ne
cessary to estimate are those whose incomes arise from feeir hav
ing property in Ireland, and who reside in this country, and per
sons owning estates in fee West-Indies, or receiving the interest
ofhiortgages on estates in that part ofthe world. With respect
to those persons whose incomes arise from Ireland, I have no ac
curate data in order to estimate" tbe amount; but I believe it is
the generally received opinion, that the property of persons of
this description amounted to at least 1 ,000,000?. a considerable
'time since, and now, from the increase of rents, it may reason
ably be estimated far beyond feat sum. With respect to the in
comes of estates in the West Indies, fee total amount cannot be
estimated at less than 7,000,000/. sterling, and far the greater
amount is produced from the property of persons residing in
Great Britain, who either own estates, or have mortgages upon
them for which feey receive interest. From that are to be de
ducted the amount of the exports carried out, and fee charge
of cultivating fee estates in fee West Indies ; after which deduc
tion, I estimate fee produce of income in fee West Indies at
four millions, and I believe I run no danger of stating' it too
high. Thus it appears I may fairly estimate at five millions the
"whole produce of income arising beyond seas; and enjoyed by
persons in this country.
The next description of property which will come under the
consideration of the committee as a source for the proposed tax,
is the income of persons not in trade. Under feis head will be
'included annuities of all kinds, public and private mortgages,
and income arising from money lent upon securities under vari
ous denominations.- At tlie same time fee eommi-ttee howeVer

-31-8 /^HxrW^TT'8 -> ¦'¦ U***;'*'
will. go. along with ..mej.iiij seeing feat,; in estima^jig. the general
rental of the land of England, I have taken it with all -its har
dens, , and .consequently have included, fee, mortgages.. In, 'the
practical detail of feg.measuiie, it will come to be, xfeeided: whe
ther ,;it shajl7fall on the landowner, or pn;the.mprtgag^e.( Jn're-
spect, therefore, .Ojf feis description of propserty,, iJ-do. jjftt now
m.ak<? any distinct, .esjiinate.,. Whatever is, lent upon: the, security
of land wjU'naturall^^pnie ,fqrthjin,the, process of 'fbjs li^rand
as , we haye no , accurate means ,of,7ju4gi|ig-iof 'therdmount of.fee
rnort^gecl. property , iri .England,-, I avoid taking any particular
sum under the jCjistjnct, head. , , Wife respect, lo^private annuities
of anofeer kind, it is. ,a-lso, difficult ? tc*, ascertain ,their ;Jatpount.
Not so wife-regard te public annuities,; webave.nQ,.diffici*Hy.,(?f
ascertaining fee,, exact^atnount-qf, the annuities ^aidibyfee^pub-
Jic to .individuals, and I 'Shalj. bave..no0hesitatiop-inJs^jfeawtting
toi fee committee, .that when.a general.asgessment npwi.jiocp'Hie
is tp take, place, no,, distinction ought to be 'made as^to-fee
sources from which -feaf income may arise, i.lThjsre.canbeno
fair objection taken by fee stoqkhplder upon fee occasion ; feere
can be noquestion of a breach of 'good faife,'pf .national, stipu
lation with the public creditor, by thus imposing upon; him, what
every other subject of the realm is tp incur. -The public credi
tor enjoys his security pnder,fee,most,sacred pbligatjoas of;fee
state, and- the ,commit£6.e-will do nie feeijusiiqe to recollect, feaft,
whenever an lde& has been, started in debate, of 'imposing upon ,
-fee stockholders, -separately and distinctly, any -sort of ; tax, i
have been prepared, to reprobate fee.atterrjpt, .as utterly incon
sistent with .good.faith. and pu-blic; engagements. Parliatnentf-hjjs
always gone along withnie in the feeling feat no such tax .ought
fo be levied upon them, and they have uniformly ae^ed,.upon
this feeling, on the^principle, that,as the,public creditors- cftme
forward and lent their money to fee state in the moment of Us
necessity, while at the same '¦time theyrbore, 'inco-mmon-with
every other description of his Majesty's ssubjeots, the'taxeB^oh
consumption, they were to be-secured- against aijy imposts, 'dis
tinctly levelled at feem as -an>iuitants;©f<fee public; anditfte parr

VJ9S-1 ' PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. ,31-9
Jiaroenthas felt feis more, particulatftyifrom the recollection , of
fee duty which .feeypwe to.persons mho had embarked so. much,
and identified themselves -so-ihtiinately tyifeifee state;: : Agajnst
any direct tax upon :fee.s/toplsholder,,:thein:I am j sure, tbeqoni-
niittee, as well as myself, -would- set themselves ;in yppositipn,;
but fee -rftatter is .materially' reversed, whena ta*; is;tp be, levied
upon fee, income of evfery description, of persons -jn fee, .realm.;
When it is no longer in/the power Of the, stockholder itft say, I
could avoid this tax by removing my property ifroinajthe-fii-nds .to
Janded security, or .to trade ; every argumentjiagaiiist including
hinci in fee (assessment is withdrawn. Tbe protection yielded to
tbe:stockholder, is the same as to the landholder, the merchant,
and fee manufacturer. The- duty, therefore, , is the, same, anql
ewery other description .of persons in fee country .would have a
right to complain, if, when -feey are called 'Upon,, for, a sacrifice
©f this extraordinary nature, so. numerous, a body of persons
were to be exempted from the assessment. -I , aim .'confident,
therefore, that every -gentleman who hears me,, will agree that
theiprinciple of the. measureds not liable, to -aftyjinlputatipn of
breach of faith, lit cannotbe, called a resumption of the .annuity
that has been granted to the public creditors, nor in the most
remote degree an infringjement of the. contract feat .was originally
made with feem. They ¦ are; in this rinsta^cje^piijly to.do that
which every Other: body of men within, the kingdom iare to .do,;
they are to jnaKea sacrifice of a part of their income to the ne
cessities tif the state, and they, are .tp do it upon .the;, principle of
giving. security ^nd permanence to all which! they. possess. I
have detained the committee longer upon feis head than I should
otherwise bave done; because I am aware that objections may
be Jightly and loosely thrown out to feis part of tlie measure. I
should say to the stockholder, as one of fee public, if you expect
frpm fee state fee protection: which is common, to us all, you
ought also to. make the sacrifice which we. are, called upon to
make. It .is not peculiar to you, it does not belong to the
Quality of your income, but it is made jgerieral, and required
from all ; :you. could not enibarkyour capital in any-:ether spe?

S20 Ut. PITT'S [Dec. 3,
cies of security in which it would not be subject to the same
fharge. I do not know what objection fee stockholder could
make to this appeal. I include, therefore, fee public annuitants
in fee view of fee proposed tax, and there is no difficulty in es
timating fee amount of feis species of income, At fee same time,
it is to be taken into consideration, feat all that part of the pub*
lie annuities which have been redeemed by fee nation, is to be
exempted from fee charge of the tax. Taking the amount of
the redemption, therefore, at what it now appears to be, the
rental of the public annuitants may be estimated at 15,000,000/. 5
but here, as in all the other cases, both of the land and rental, and
of other sources of property, feere will, of course, be admitted
the same exemptions to all annuitants who have less than 60l.
a year, and the same modifications to all who possess from 60L
to 200/. a year. At the same time it is to be considered, feat
feese exemptions and modifications are only to apply to those
individuals whose whole income amounts to less fean 200/. a year.
If persons possess incomes from various sources, they are to be
calculated in the aggregate ; for the exemption or fee modifica
tion will not apply, if the whole income should not be under the
stipulated sum. I am sure, that I shall over-rate the amount of
these exemptions and modifications', when I deduct one-fifth
from the sum that I have stated fee public annuities to be ; but
I do not admit feat deduction, and therefore state the total.of
the income from the public funds at 12,000,000/,
There now remain, Mr. chairman, fee ofeer great sources
of trade to fee inhabitants of this country ; — the produce of tradey
foreign and domestic : and this branch of income is, in its na*
ture, more difficult of estimate fean any other.. We have, how
ever, lights and aids by which we may come to a knowledge of a'
material part, at least, of this source of national wealth, I mean
the produce of our foreign trade. By fee recent acts which have
been passed, fee amoun;s of the imports and exports have beeH
ascertained wife such a degree of accuracy, as to enable Us to
form a tolerable judgment of fee amount of the capital embarked
in this branch of onr traidef and, consequently, w form an esti*

]783.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 321
mate of fee profits accruing from it. By fee late act for the in
surance of produce and manufactures exported, as well as by
the recent act of which I have spoken, for fee laying a duty on
convoys, we have been able, more clearly than heretofore, to
ascertain the amount and value of this trade, since we have not
only fee estimate and calculation that is made by the revenue,
but the declarations of the persons engaged in the trade them
selves, upon which fee duty is paid : and by these guides we are
able to ascertain that the capital employed in feis way is certainly
not less than 80,000,000/. sterling. Less it cannot be by the
proof of fee insurance act, which has now lasted two years, but
it may be considerably more, because it is a well-known thing'
that merchants stand a part of fee risk themselves, and do not
insure to the full amount of the goods they export. But taking
the amount at 80,000,000/. fee calculation corresponds with the
view of our foreign commerce, which has been recently made by
our most accurate calculators ; and in all feese estimates I wish
rather to be under than over the mark. I state fee amount of the
-capital, therefore, embarked in our foreign trade at 80,000,000/.;
and assuming this as the capital, the next question is, what we
ought to take as the profit to all the description of persons em
ployed in carrying on feis branch of our trade ? In estimating this,
we must necessarily include in our view, not merely the merchant
who exports, but all fee orders and descriptions of persons from
the manufacturer upwards, who are in any way connected with our
export trade. Under feis bead come in fee profits of brokerage,
wharfage, and carriage, wife all fee other contributory trades
connected with foreign commerce; and I am sure the committee
will agree wife me, that I make a moderate calculation, when
I estimate fee average of the profits upon the capital of
80.000,000/. at 1 5 per cent. 1 take, therefore, 12,000,000/. as
the income of all fee persons connected wife the foreign trade of
this kingdom.
There now remains feat which more than any ofeer branch of
our income baffles the power of scrutiny, andaffords even very-
limited grounds for conjecture ; I mean the profits arising frons
vol. in. t

323 MR. PITT'S [1)ec. 3,
domestic trade and manufacture. Here fee many descriptions
pf persons whose skill and industry are fee source of income ig
?,U the progress of our arts and manufactures, from fee first pre
paration of fee rude and raw material to its state of perfection,
serve to make calculation almost impossible from their variety
and extent. Even here, however, we have some means of form
ing an idea. Of the general capital of 80,000,000/. employed in
the foreign trade, it has been pretty accurately determined, that
about 30,000,000/. are destined and employed in the export of
the leading manufactures of England, I am sure, then, that
tb.e committee will go along with me in saying, feat the amount
of the capital and sum employed in internal trade must be four
times the amount Of our export of British manufactures. When
we look at the vast machine of trade in all its parts, let any gen
tleman ask himself whether, in the woollen manufactures, cotton,
ljnen, hardware, pottery, and in all the ofeer great and leading
branches of manufacture, there can be a less sum employed than
four tiuies the amount of that which is appropriated by fee mer
chant for the purposes of exportation ? Viewing all fee enor-,
mpus capital invested in domestic manufacture, I cannot take it
at less than 120,000,000/. ; and upon this capital I estimate the
gain at no more tnan 15 per cent, making a sum of 18,000,000/,
per annum of income.
There is one other description of income which, though it em?
braces a vast variety of individuals, is reducible to none of the
former heads, but comes naturally to be included in the article
pf domestic trade ; I mean artisans, architects, brewers, distil
lers, builders, brickmakers, masons, carpenters, and all that innu-,
merabl.e class of persons who, by skill iu, their professions, draw
tlieir incomes from the general prosperity of the country. Th$
committee, from their general knowledge of the kingdom, will at
once perceive how numerous and how varied feis class of persons
must be, and how utterly impossible it is to arrive at an accurate
criterion of the general amount of tlieir gains, I am sure, how
ever, that they will agree wife me that I understate it, when I take
it at 10,000,000/. per annum. I feus estimate the whole amount
of our internal manufactures and trade at 28,000,000/. a year.

17-98.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 32?
I have thus rapidly gone through all the distinct branches of,
national rental, and of national profits, from which we have to
derive fee tex that I meau to propose to you, without presuming
fo think that I have been able to do it, with that accuracy of de
tail which can only be derived from practice, or with that cer
tainty upon which you ought to repose. I have, however, through
the whole been anxious to understate the amount of the estimate
as collected from the best sources of calculation, and to pver-
rate the exemptions and deductions that it would be necessary to
male from each. The committee, who have gone along with me
in my details, will see that I make the whole sum of annual ren
tal and profits, after making the deductions which I think reason
able, ^02,000,000/. sterling.
for the sake of greater clearness, I will recapitulate fee heads
in the same order that I have followed :
The land rental, then, after deducting one-fifth, I
estimate at ----------,,£. 20,000,000
The tenant's rental of land, deducting two-thirds of
the rack rent, I take at------- 6,000,009
The amount of tythes, deducting one-fifth - - - 4,000,000
The produce of mines, canal-navigation, &c. de
ducting one-fifth --------- 3,000,000
The rental of houses, deducting one-fifth - - - 5,000,000
The profits of professions  - 2,000,000
The rental of Scotland, taking it at one-eighth of
that of England  - 5,000,000
The income of persons resident in Great Britain,
drawn from possessions beyond seas - - - 5,000,000
The amount of annuities from the public funds,
after deducting one-fifth for exemptions and
modifications  12,000,000
The profits on the capital employed in our foreign
commerce  12,000,000
The profits on fee capital employed in domestic
trade, and the profits of skill and industry - 28,000,000
In all '•£¦ 102,000,000

324 MR. PITT'S [Dfic. 3,
Upon feis sum a tax of 10 per cent, is likely to produce
10,000,000/. a year, and feis is fee sum which is likely to result
from fee measure, and at which I shall assume it. I flatter my
self feat I have been extremely careful not to overstate any part
of the sources.
Now, supposing feat ten millions is fee sum feus collected,
gentlemen will recollect that, in fee last session of parliament,
fee assessed taxes were the only part of the public resources
which were mortgaged for fee sum of 8,000,000/. borrowed for
fee public service in 1797- I should think it my duty, there
fore, that the sum how proposed to be raised in lieu of fee as
sessed taxes, should, after its appropriation to the supplies of the
present year, remain as a pledge for the discharge of that sum
for which the assessed taxes were a security, and also for the
discharge of fee loan of the present year, beyond what will ba
paid out of the sinking fund. Taking the assessed taxes at four
millions, they would have been mortgaged for two years after
peace ; — and thus the advantage of this measure is this, feat no
greater sums will be raised on any individuals than those which
have been hitherto -paid, at least by such as have rendered the
measure of the legislature effectual ; they will be relieved of a
greater than a proportional share of their burthen; and the du
ration of the burden will not behalf the time, This isa re-
commendatiou of the justice and expediency which must be felt
by the people at large. But it does not stop here ; it looks anx
iously to the alleviation of the burdens of fee country, by a
great temporary exertion ; it looks to the equality of the tax,
and the general efficacy of the measure, conscious that on them
depends our success in the great cause, in which we are engaged,—
That it is to furnish the means of providing for the debt created
is two years, within fee same period we formerly provided for
the debt created in one. -In the mode of applying the sum now
to be raised, there are. different ways. The sum which the assess
ed taxes were applied to discharge last year amounted to eight
millions ; it would be only to, borrow a sum equal to the debt to
supply the deficiency ; but it occurs, however, to me, that a more
simple and direct mode is, to apply this sufn, in the first instance,
to the supplies of fee year,_ but at fee same time to enact, that

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 325
the tax shall continue till it has discharged the debt for which
the assessed taxes were mortgaged, and then to make a farther
charge for what may be borrowed beyond what the sinking fund
will discharge.
Supposing this ten per cent, on income produces 10,000,000/.
the period when I should propose it to take effect would be the
5th of April next. I should propose the repeal of the former
assessed taxes at the same period ; but, from the calculation I
have made, four millions and a half will be raised from the first
of February, 1798, to the first of February, 1799. It would,
therefore, be more beneficial to the object I have in view to com
mence the operation of this new measure at an earlier period,
because of the benefit of fee increased rate of taxation ; but,
there will be fee addition of what will come in under the assess
ed taxes, which will amount to 700,000/. Thus, there will be
Taised 10,700,000/. But this is not applicable to the whole of
the subject ; for gentlemen will recollect, feat the interest of
the 8,000,000/. was also charged on the assessed taxes. The
interest will continue in the course of the present year, to which
also is to be added the interest of whatever loan may be made
this year. This will amount to about one million five hundred
thousand pounds, which leaves the sum of nine millions two
hundred thousand pounds, as applicable to fee services of the
. present year. This aid would be all that is necessary to furnish
the ways and means for the supplies, except as to the sum of
•twenty-four millions. Fourteen millions, therefore, is the sum
necessary to be raised by loan, of which, however, four millions
and a half is discharged by fee operation of the sinking fund,
consequently nine millions and a half is the whole sum to be
added to the national debt. I wish, therefore, to lay this down
as a principle, feat nine millions and a half is the sum to be
raised this year, for which I should propose to charge as a mort
gage the income tax, after discharging the former mortgage. This
gives a general view of the amount of the services of the year,
and the ways and means to defray feem. I have.also stated, to
the best of my powerr the possible amount of every article prq«
posed -as the subject of taxation.
T 3

526 MR. PITT'S [Dec. i,
Itrust feat if will not be necessary for rhe to' go into any de
tail of argument to convince the committee of the advantages of
fee beneficial mode, adopted last session, of raising a consider
able part of the supplies within fee year. The propriety of the
measure has been recognized, and felt in a way fee most gratify
ing to the feelings and to fee pride of every Englishman. The
principle has been proved to be the most wise and and beneficial,
though in the manner of carrying it into practice it has been so
shamefully and grossly evaded. The experience which we have
had, points out fee propriety of correcting the errors of that plan,
and of enforcing and extending fee principle. If we have been
able, from the benefits of that measure, so evaded and crippled,
to do so much, it is obviously our duty to seek for fee means of
perfecting the plan upon which we are set out ; and if we can
find regulations and checks against the abuses that have been
committed, it is surely wise and proper that they should be made
to apply to a more general and extensive scheme than that which
we have already tried. It no longer rests upon theory, or upon
reasoning; it is recommended to us by fee surest test of expe
rience ; and if, by fee efficacy of this plan, we have been able to
disappoint the hopes of the enemy; — to rise above all the at
tempts which they made to disturb our domestic tranquillity ; — to
remove the apprehensions of the despondent, and to shew them
that all their fears of our being unable to continue the contest,
were vain ; — to assert the high and proud distinction which we
took in fee maintenance of genuine government and social or
der ; — if we have been able thereby to animate the public spirit
of Europe, to revive its dismayed energy, and to give a turn to
fee political aspect of the world, favourable to the cause of hu
manity, shall we not persevere in a course which has been so
fruitful of good ? If we have proved that, at fee end of the
sixth year of war, unsubdued by all fee exertions and sacrifices
we have made, our commerce is flourishing beyond fee example
of any year even of peace ; if our revenues are undiminished ;
if new means of vigour are daily presenting themselves to our
grasp ; if our efforts have been crowned with the most perfect

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 307
Success ; if fee public sentiment be firm and united in the justice
and necessity of the cause iti which we are embarked ; if every
motive to exeiti^n con'inues fee same, and every effort, we have
made in fee cause is a source only of exultation and pride to the
heart ; if, by the efficacy of those efforts, we have now the expec
tation of accomplishing the great object of all our sacrifices and
all our labours ; if despondency be dissipated at home, and con
fidence created abroad, shall we not persevere in a course so
fairly calculated to bring 11° to a happy issue ? Let us do justice
to ourselves. It is not merely owing to the dazzling events
of the campaign that we are indebted for the proud station
in which we now stand. Great and glorious as those achieve
ments have been, which cannot fail to be a source of exultation
to every British bosom, I shall not detract from fee high
renown of all feose persons to whose skill, vigour, and
determination, we are indebted for the achievements that have
astonished and aroused Europe, when I say, that it is not altoge
ther owing to them that we now feel ourselves in a situation so
proud and consoling. The grand and important changes which
have been effected in Europe, are not merely to be ascribed to
the promptitude, vigilance, skill, and vigour, of our naval de
partment, whose merits no man can feel, or can estimate, more
highly than I do ; nor to the heroism, zeal, patriotism, and de
votion, of our transcendant commanders — and I speak particu
larly of that great commander * whose services fill every bosoin
with rapturous emotion, and who will never cease to derive from
the gratitude of his countrymen fee tribute of his Worth— nor is
it to the unparalleled perseverance, valour, and wonders perform
ed by our gallant fleets, which have raised the British name to a
distinction unknown even to her former annals, that we are to as
cribe all fee advantages of our present posture. No, we muSt
also do justice to the wisdom, energy, and determination of the
parliament who have furnished- fee means, and the power, by
which all the Test was sustained and accomplished. Through
* Lord Nelson.
Y 4i '

328 MR. PITT'S [Dec. 3,
them all the departments of his Majesty's government bad fee
means of employing the force whose achievements have been so
brilliant; through the wisdom of parliament the resources of
the country have been called forth, and its spirit embodied in a
manner unexampled in its history. By their firmness, magnani
mity, and devotion to fee cause, not merely of our own indivi
dual safety, but of the cause of mankind in general, we have
been enabled to stand forth the saviours of fee earth. No diffi
culties have stood in our way ; no sacrifices have been thought
too great for us to make ; a common" feeling of danger has pro
duced a common spirit of exertion, and we have cheerfully come
forward wife a surrender of a part of our property as a salvage,
not merely for recovering ourselves, but for fee general recovery
of mankind, We have presented a phenomenon in the character
of nations. '
It has often been thought, and hasbeen fee theme of historians,
that as nations became mercantile, they lost in martial spirit what
they gained in commercial avidity ; that it is of the essence of
trade to be sordid, and that high notions of honour are incom
patible wife the prosecution of traffic. This hypothesis has
been proved to be false ; for in fee memorable era of the past
year Great Britain has exhibited the glorious example of a na
tion shewing the most universal spirit of military heroism, at a
time when she had acquired the most flourishing degree of na
tional commerce. In no time of fee proudest antiquity could the
people of Great Britain exhibit a more dignified character of
martial spirit than they have during the last year, when they
have also risen to the greatest point of commercial advantage ;
and, Mr. Chairman, they are not insensible of the benefits, as
well as of the glory, they have acquired ; they know and feel
¦ tii at the most manly course has also been, the most prudent, and
they are sensible that, by bravely resisting the torrent with which
they were threatened, instead of striking balances on their fate,
and looking to the averages of profit and loss, on stand
ing out, or of yielding to the tempest, feey have given to
_feernselves not merely security, but-lustre and fame, JffeJey

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 329
had, on the contrary, submitted to puchase a suspension of dan
ger and a mere pause of war, they feel feat they could only have
purchased the means of future and more deplorable mischief*
marked with the stamp of impoverishment and degradation ;
they feel therefore, that, in pursuing the path which duty and ,
honour prescribed, they have also trod in the path of prudence
and economy. They have secured to themselves permanent
peace, and future repose, and have given an animating example
to the world of the advantages of vigour, constancy, and union.
If tbe world shall not be disposed to take fee benefit of this ex
ample, Great Britaiu ha6 at least the consolation to know,
that she has given them the power. And if I were dis
posed, Sir, to pay regard to drier and colder maxims of
•policy, I should say, that every regard even to prudent eco
nomy would point out the course which we have taken, as
the most advantageous for a people to pursue. It will be ma
nifest to every gentleman on the slightest consideration of the
subject, feat, in fee end, the measure of raising the supplies with
in the year is the cheapest and the most salutary course that a
wise people can pursue ; and when it is considered that feere is
a saving pf at least one twelfth upon all that is raised, gentle
men will not suffer a superstitious fear, and jealousy of the dan
ger of exposing the secrecy of income^ to combat with a mea
sure that is so pregnant with benefits to fee nation. If gentle
men will take into their consideration the probable duration of
peace and war, calculated from the experience of past times,
they will be convinced ofthe immeasurable importance of striv
ing to raise fee suplies within fee year, rather than accumulating
a permanent debt. The experience of the last hundred, fifty,
Or forty years, will shew how little confidence we can have in the
duration of peace, and it ought to convince us, how important it is
toestablish a system, feat will prepare us for every emergency,
give stability to strength, and perpetual renovations to resource.
I think, I could make it apparent to gentlemen, that in any war,
ofthe duration of six years, the plan of funding all fee expenses
te be incurred in carrying it on, would leave at the end of it 4

336 MR. PITT'S { Dec. 3,
greater burden permanently upon the nation fean would be. sus
tained, fean feey would have to incur for the six years only of
its continuance, and one year beyond it, provided feat they
made the sacrifice of a tenth of their income. In fee old, un
wise, and destructive way of raising the Supplies by a permanent
fund, without any provision for its redemption, a war so carried
6n entails the burden upon the age and upon their posterity for
fever. This has, to be sure, in a great measure, been done away
and corrected, by the salutary and valuable System which has
been adopted ofthe redemption fund. But that fund cannot ac
complish the end in a shorter period than forty years, and during
all that time the expenses of a war so funded must weigh down
and press upon the people. If, on the contrary, it had at an
early period of our history been resolved to adopt the present
mode of raising the supplies within the year ; if, for instance,
after the peace of Aix la Chapelle, the scheme of redemption
even had been adopted, and persevered in to this time, we should
hot now, for fee seventh year of the war, have had more to raise
from, the pockets of the people fean what we have now to pay
of permanent taxes, together wife about a fourth of what it would
be necessary to lay on in addition for this year. Fortunately
we have at last established the redemption fund : the bene
fits of it are already felt ; feey will every year be more and
more acknowledged ; and in addition to this it is only ne
cessary, that instead of consulting a present advantage, and
throwing fee burden, as heretofore, upon posterity, we shall
fairly meet it ourselves, and lay the foundation of a System that
shall make us independent of all fee future events of the world.
I am sure that, in deliberating upon the advantages of this sys
tem, gentlemen whose liberal and exalted views go beyond the
mere presentconvenience of the moment, and are not limited to fee
period of the interest which they may themselves take in public
affairs, or even to the period of their own existence, but look
wife a provident affection to fee independence and happiness of
a generation unborn, will feel and recognise the wisdom of a
system feat has for its principle the permanency of British graft-

179&/J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 331
deur. You will feel that it is not only to fee splendour of your
arms, to the achievements of your fleets, feat you are indebted
for thehiuh distinction which you at present enjoy ; but also to
fee wisdom of the councils you have adopied in taking advan
tage of fee influent e which your bappy constitution confers be
yond fee example of any other people, and by which you have
given a grand and edifying lesson to dismayed Europe, that safe
ty, honour, and repose, must ever depend upon the energy with
which danger is met and resisted. You have shewn the power
of self-defence, which is permanent and unassailable: standing
lipon the principles you have assumed, fee wild and extravagant
hopes of the enemy will be thwarted; Europe will be aroused
and animated to adopt a course so honourable; and surely wife
fee means ot persevering feus obvious, you will not think it pru
dent or necessary to shrink from the principles you have adopt
ed, Or take shelter in a peace which might be obtained by a more
temporizing conduct, but which would neither be safe nor dura
ble. But, Sir, I cannot encourage any sentiment so degrading ;
I feel in common with every gentleman who hears me, the proud
situation in which we have been placed, and the importance
it has given us in the scale of nations. The rank that we
now hold, I trust, we shall continue to cherish, and that, pur
suing the same glorious course, we shall all of us feel it to be
a source of pride and consolation that we are the subjects of
the king of Great Britain. I will not detain you longer, Sir,
but will move for the first of my Series of resolutions in carry
ing the plan of taxation into execution, which I have endeavour
ed to detail.
The resolutions were as follow •
" Resolved,
" That it is the opinion of this committee, that so much of an act made in the
last session of parliament, intituled, ' An act for granting to his Majesty an
aid and contribution for the prosecution of th,e War,' as charges any person
with an additional duty in proportion to the amount of the rates or duties to
which, prior to the 5th day erf April, 1798, such person was assessed, according
to anv assessment made in pursuance of any act of parliament in force at the
time of passing the said act of the last session, be repealed.
2

332 MR. PITT'S [Dec 3,
" Resolved,
" That it is the opinion of this committee, that, towards raising the supply
granted to his Majesty, there be charged annually, during a term to be limit
ed, tbe several rates and duties following, upon all income arising from pro
perty in Great Britain, belonging to any of his Majesty's subjects, although
not resident in Great Britain ; and upon all income ol every person residing
in Great Britain, and of every body politic or corporate, or company, frater
nity, or society of persons, whether corporate or not corporate, in Great Bri
tain, whether any such income shall arise from lands, tenements, or heredity
ments, wheresoever the same shall be situated in Great Britain, or elsewhere ;
or from any kind of personal property, or other property whatever ; or from
any profession, office, employment, trade, or vocation ; that is to say,
One one-hundred-and-twentieth part of such income, if the same shall
amount unto 601. per annum, and shall be under 65/. per annum.
One ninety-fifth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 65/. but
•hall be under 70/.
One seventieth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 701. but
sliall be under 751.
One sixty-fifth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 751. but
shall be under 80/.
One sixtieth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 80/. but shall
be under 85/.
One fifty-fifth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 85/. but
shajl be under 90/.
One fiftieth part of such income, if the same shali amount to 90/. but shall
"be under 95/.
One forty-fifth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 95/. but
shall be under 100/.
One fortieth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 100/. but shall
be under 105/.
One thirty-eighth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 105/.
but shall be under 110/
One thirty-sixth part of such income, if the same shall amountto 110/. but
shall be under 115/.
One thirty-fourth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 1151. but
shall be under 120/.
One thirty-second part of such income, if the same shall amount to 120/. but
shall be under 125/.
One thirtieth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 125/. but
shall be under 130/.
One twenty-eighth part of such income, if the same shall amountto 130/. but
Shall be under 135/.

im.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 333
One twenty-sixth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 135/. but
jhall be under 140/.
One twenty-fourth part of such income, if the same shall amountto 140/. but
.shall be under 145/.
One twenty-second part of such income, if the same shall amount to 145/. but
sliall be under 150/.
Oue twentieth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 1501. but
shall be under 155/.
One nineteenth part of such income, if the same sliall amount to 155/. but
shail be under 160/.
One eighteenth part of such income, if the same sliall amount to 160/. but
sliall be under 165/.
One seventeenth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 165/. but
shall be under 1701.
One sixteenth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 170/. but
shall be under 175/.
One fifteenth part of snch income, if the same shall amount to 175/. but
shall be under 180/.
One fourteenth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 180/. but
¦hall be under 185/.
One thirteenth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 185/. but
shall be under 190/.
One twelfth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 190/. but
shall be under 195/.
One eleventh part of such income, if the same shall amount to 195/. but
ihall be under 200/.
And one tenth part of such income, if the same shall amount to 200/. or
upwards. The resolutions were agreed to, and the report was ordered to be received
on the following day.

December 14, 1798.
Mb. Hobart brought up the report of the committee on the bill for impos
ing ageneral tax upon income. On the question " that this report be now
taken into further consideration,"
Mb Pitt, in reply to Sir John Sinclair, and some other members, who had
expressed their decided hostility to the bill, spoke to the following effect :
Sir,  Impressed as I am with the conviction feat feere never
was a subject of greater importance in all its aspects, and in all

334 MS. PITT'S [Dec. Uf
its consequences, agitated within feese walls, I should not have
thought it incumbent upon me, in the present stage of fee busi
ness, to have troubled you with any observations, were there not
some points which have been touched upon to-night, which I am
desirous, as soon as possible, to place in their proper point of
view. What has been urged by some gentlemen who spoke in
fee course of the debate, while it could not be considered fairly
as argument, was directed in such a manner against the farther
progress of fee measure, was so calculated to excite prejudice,
and to beget misconception, that it demands some degree of no
tice. It. is a satisfaction to me to find feat the propriety of rais
ing a certain part of the supplies within fee year has in general
been conceded. If we can judge from what has appeared to
night, there is nobody in the house, except fee honourable baro
net* who opened the debate, who is disposed to contest fee prin
ciple. I am thus relieved from the necessity of detaining fee
house wife any argument upon that subject, or saying any thing
in reply to one solitary antagonist by whom fee principle was
denied. Whatever authority may belong to feat individual mem
ber, and no man has more, the worthy baronet himself seemed
to rest entirely upon feat authority, as he did not add a single
argument in support of his position. The house then will no
doubt be willing to dispense wife any argument upon feis branch
of the question.
There were some others, however, who, entering upon fee con
sideration of fee subject with liberal professions of approbation,
and a firm conviction of fee necessity of great and extraordinary
exertion in fee cause in which we are engaged ; admitting fee be
nefits which might be derived both in present vigour and perma
nent resources, from the plan of raising a great part of fee sup
plies wifein the year, yet thought themselves at liberty, not after
full consideration of the whole details, not after weighing ma
turely fee regulations by which this great principle is to be car
ried into execution, and followed up wife effect, not after long
and sitjcere endeavours to remedy what was defective, and to im-
» Sir John Sinclair.

1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 335
prove what was wrong, reluctantly to ditmiss the measure as im
practicable to the end proposed, but, in the first instance, hastily,
peremptorily, and impatiently, to shut fee dqor against all im
provement, arid to oppose all farther deliberation. Although
agreeing in the principle, and aware as feey must be that a mea
sure of such magnitude and importance must depend much upon
tlie arrangement of details, and the regulation of provisions,
they seem resolved to check all attempt to bring feese points
»gajn into consideration. Confessing the necessity of great and
vigorous efforts for fee salvation of the country, in which some
of lliem, now for fee first time, have tardily discovered, that
our safety is involved, tbey do not wait to reject the measure
upon any ground of final and invincible objection, but feey
come forward to resist it in the very outset, previous to a ma
ture examination of its details, and a sincere endeavour to cor
rect its provisions.
The honourable gentleman who spoke last * approves of the
principle of raising a considerable part of the supplies within fee
year, but he declares himself an enemy to any plan of rendering
that principle effectual by a general tax. The house will, no
doubt, think this a most valuable concession of the honourable
pjtfeman ! If it be necessary for the effort which we are called
upon to make, if it be essential to the firm establishment of pub
lic credit, to fee future prosperity of the empire, to obtain feat
sqpply which is requisite for the vigorous prosecution of the con
test, it is evident that it must be obtained by a sudden tax imme
diately productive. If it is impossible, by an increase of fee .ex
isting taxes on consumption, by introducing evils ten times more
severe fean those which are imputed to this measure, it is evident
that nothing can realize the principle but some extraordinary and
general tax. If the honourable gentleman, as I perceive he does,
admits that such an increase of fee taxes on consumption as
would produce ten millions within the year is impracticable, it
follows that feere is no other mode but a tax upon property, sp
far as it can be discovered. We must lay fee contribution, then,
* Mr. W. Smith.

336 MR. PITT'S [Dec. U,
either upon Capital or on income. From feis general operation,
however, the honourable gentleman would exempt all feose whom
he is pleased to call exclusively the useful classes, and lay fee
whole of fee weight on what he calls the useless class. In the
class of useless fee honourable gentleman has thought proper to
rank all the proprietors of land, feose men who form the line
which binds and knits society together — those on whom, in a
great measure, fee administration of justice, and fee internal
police of fee country depends ; — feose men from whom the poor
receive employment, from whom agriculture derives its im
provement and support, and to whom, of course, commerce it
self is indebted for the foundation on which it rests. Yet feis
class the honourable gentleman thinks proper to stigmatize as
useless drones, of no estimation or merit in the eyes of society.
When fee consequences with which feis light flippant theory, fee
offspring of mere temporary unthinking policy, would be attend
ed, are fairly considered, fee honourable gentleman will find
feat his distinction between useful and useless classes is as little
founded in truth, as the practical system be founds upon it would
bejponsistent with the general interest of those whom he thinks
entitled to peculiar favour. The question then is, whether capi
tal or income be fee proper object of contribution ? Tlie ho
nourable gentleman, says that capital is fee criterion which ought
to be adopted in fee case of fee commercial man, and income
where it is derived from land. Taking for granted, feat the prin
ciples of fee honourable gentleman were well founded, no less
fean three-fourths of the whole income liable to contribution is
calculated to arise from this source. Even upon his own argu
ment, then, he ought not to consider feis measure as so incura
ble as to refuse going into the committee. If, then, he is sincere
in his profession of desire to facilitate the raising of a consider
able part of the supplies within fee year, why should he refuse to
proceed farther in a measure which is at least capable of embrac
ing three fourths of his object ; and in other parts susceptible of
alteration and improvement ? If, however, what has been so uni
versally recognised as important to be done, is to be done effec-
1

IT98. ] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. $37
tually, and the great consideration is, on which of these leading
objects it will be most advantageous to fee public, and least in
convenient to the classes Of contribution to impose feis general
and comprehensive tax, I am afraid, feat to feat very plan,
which he himself thinks preferable, those objections on which he
rested the desponding hope, feat fee country neither could, nor
would submit to the measure, would apply with aggravated
force. Every objection, which he so long and vehemently urged
against fee danger of disclosure, will apply to feose new theories
of policy on which he would act. The honourable gentleman
says, he is against disclosure. How, then, is he to ascertain fee
amount of feat commercial capital, the profits of which he
thinks might justly be made to contribute ? Would he be con-?
tented with that loose declaration, which experience has proved
to be so favourable to evasion? Would he recognise fee justice
of a principle, which he would utterly defeat and nullify by the
provisions he recommends to carry it into effect ? What then
does he do to support that great cause, to invigorate feose ex
traordinary efforts which are necessary for our success in a con-?
test, which all but a few, who but lately have got some few
lights, have long considered to be connected with our existence ?
Yet, when appearing for the first time as a proselyte to the
cause of his country and of mankind, though standing in the
new character of a convert, he still retains so much of fee bias
of his old opinions, that he denies the means of rendering those
measures effective, which he acknowledges to be indispensable,
and carrying into practice that principle which he professes to ap
prove. The real dispute between us, then, is nothing but a matter of
detail. The greater part of the honourable gentleman's speech was
founded upon objections to the provisions of the bill ; and many
of his objections were either utterly uufounded in any thing it
contains, or they were of such a nature as to admit of being cor
rected in the committee. In arguing the matter in this way, in
fee present stage, the honourable gentleman could be regular
only upon a pomt of strict form. He knows very well feat fee
YOL. III. z

338 MR. PITT'S [Dec, 14,
bill went through fee committee to get the blanks filled tip with
out undergoing any discussion in feat stage, and feat it was in*
tended to submit it at a future period to the detailed examination
of a committee. But granting that the present was, in a fair
view of the subject, the proper stage for the discussion of
points of detail, let us see what are the objections which, in
fee honourable gentleman's estimation, are so fatal to the mea
sure. To the main objection, which he urged so repeatedly, and
¦wife so much acrimony, it may easily be answered, feat fee
honourable gentleman assumes what is not in the bill. It seem
ed to be taken up merely to afford him an opportunity of em*
bellishing his discourse with fee violent invective and offensive;
epithet by which it was distinguished. I allude to what was
stated respecting the character and duties of the surveyor to be
appointed under the bill. I will not recapitulate the odious de-»
scription which the honourable gentleman applied to the persons
who were tp act in this capacity. What is fee purpose — what is
fee tendency of such invectiye ? What can be the effect of this
reproachful language, thus indiscriminately applied, but to bring
into discredit those officers under the revenue, without which it
could npt be collected, and without which public business must be
at a stand ? The honourable gntleman says, that the surveyor is
at liberty to surcharge to any amount, and pending fee appeal to
which this surcharge gives rise, the tax will continue to be levied
on the whole of tbe demand, including the surcharge. What is
fee rempdy which the honourable gentleman discovers for feis ?
He tell, us, in alluding to a remark of an honourable baronet,?
feat fee discussion of fee appeal might bp rendered so intricate
as to consume six, pr even twelve months. This objection fee
honourable gentleman urges triumphantly, at the very time top,
feat he states it to be the mode which a person surcharged wil}
adopt for his relief, at the very moment when he is compelled to
acquiesce in the payment of a surcharge, from which he takes
care that it shall be impossible for fee commissioners of appeal,.
\P. r?l!ev? kim ! Such an argument is fee consequence which is,
* Sir Francis Baring.

1WS.I " PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 339
stated. In fact, however, it so happens, that no such grievance
cau exist. The surveyor's surcharge is not acted upon in the
first instance, unless confirmed by the commissioners. The
surveyor has no discretion whatever to add to the charge on
which the contributor shall be compelled to pay. The objep-
tions of fee honourable gentleman, instead of operating against
the bill in toto, demonstrate fee necessity of going into fee com
mittee, that fee bill may obtain a full consideration, and a fair
discussion. As to the general declamation upon fee character and func
tion of fee surveyor, whom some gentlemen are pleased to con*
sider in fee odious light of a spy, it is a matter for the commit
tee to adjust fee powers and fee duties with which he shall be
entrusted. Is feis, however, any argument for the immediate
rejection of fee bill ? Doe6 the honourable gentleman really
think that no precaution whatever ought to be taken to avoid
those scandalous evasions which there is but too much reason to
expect may be attempted ? But it is maintained by the honour
able gentleman, that no evasions have taken place to defeat the
operation, of fee assessed tax bill which passed last session. He
is peculiarly fortunate in the instances which have occurred to
him, with respect to fee patriotism of his friends ; but be has
rated feeir zeal beyond the mark. It is rather singular feat he
has not taken Use opportunity of extolling their liberality in sub*
scribing to fee voluntary contributions. The observations made
by the friends of government are, however, of a very different
kind. His must have been a chosen circle, yet others were as
large as fee honourable gentleman's, before fee new lights broke ¦
in upon him. But notwithstanding the assertion, I must says
that great and notorious instances of the concealment of property
have occurred, the check provided by the legislature has been
found insufficient to produce any adequate end, and fee decla*
rations which have been given in, have, on various occasionsi
ehided the expected operation of the act. Is it not then a mat
ter of great concernment — is it not a subject'worthy of grave
deliberation, to consider what means may be devised to render.
z2

549 MR. PUT'S [ Dec. I4j
fee measure proposed as efficient as possible to the public ser
vice? The surveyor is not to be a person on whose discretion
any assessment is to depend : he is to assist the commissioners .
wife information, and to discharge that duty which his oath pre
scribes, of preventing evasion where it might be within his know
ledge feat it was attempted. It is said, in proof of fee import
ance of the surveyor's office, that they have great influence with
the commissioners in other matters where the revenue is con
cerned; but, when the character of the commissioners is taken
into view, feis remark will prove that, instead of feat profligate,
worthless class,which the honourable gentleman describes, feey are
men who recommended themselves by the propriety of their con
duct and fee performance of their duty. But, says the honourable
gentleman, the surveyor is fee only man whom we consider as
likely to be bound by his oath. Yet is there no distinction between
fee cases? Is the temptation to perjure fee same? Has fee .
man who is sworn to the performance of his duty the same rea
son to disregard it, which fee man has who is endeavouring to
avoid the payment of money to fee state ? What, then, is re
quired ? — A particular statement of income, to guard against
the evasion which was practised when a general statement was
Only required. What is it but the means of correcting those frauds
which every man's observation but the honourable gentleman's
had ascertained to be prevalent? The honourable gentleman
speaks, toO, of fee surveyor's power to extract from the books
of public bodies. Here fee honourable gentleman, from not
attending to fee bill itself, is entirely mistaken. The surveyor
has no such power ; he is to make extracts from, and to have
access to, the public books, to which at present even any "person
may easily procure access for-any purpose, even of mere curio
sity. Might not any body now procure information how much
any mercantile house possesses in fee three per cents. ? The
surveyor, then, is authorized to suggest doubts, to collect in
formation; but he has no right whatever to ask questions of fee
party surcharged, or to have any inspection of his books. .Does
not fee honourable gentleman, however, perceive that all feese
3

1793.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 341
points are proper subjects for consideration in a committee,
' where it is perfectly competent to move any alteration which gen
tlemen may think necessary ?
As to the criterion ofthe general tax, it has likewise been ob
jected to the details, feat the application is unequal in respect
to fee nature of income, its duration, &c. Although I do not
intend to enter so much into fee discussion of fee provisions of
the bill, I am anxious to remove those erroneous conceptions
which are entertained upon this subject. Here I cannot help
remarking, that the arguments of fee honourable gentleman, on
this branch, suppose feat it is necessary to correct the inequa
lities which distinguish fee mode in which all taxes are imposed-
If such be fee sentiment of the honourable gentleman, his ob
jection goes a great deal farther than fee bill before the house.
The inequalities of which he complains arise out of the nature of
society, and the distribution of its rank, and the classification of
its property. If he attempts to remedy what he in this considers
as urgent, he will attempt something which has never yet been
done by any system of taxation, something which springs from
theories of legislation, neither founded in wisdom nor justified
by experience. I proceed to explain my meaning more fully. The
honourable gentleman says, that if two persons have each 50.0L
per annum, one of which derives his income from land, the ofeer
from industry, they ought not to be both taxed equally at 501.
He assumes, that each having 450/. a year left, the impost is
unequal. What does fee new tax do ? Are feey not left in re
lation to each other precisely as they were before ? The tax
creates no new inequality. The justice or injustice remain pre
cisely as they were. To complain of this inequality- is to com
plain of fee distribution of property ; it is to complain of the con
stitution of society. To attempt to remedy it, would be to fol
low fee example of that daring rabble of legislators in another
country, from whom fee honourable gentleman borrowed some
of his. political principles, and which, though he now reprobates,
he still seems inclined to follow up. Tp think of taxings fees®
- two species of incomes in a different ratio, would be to attempt
z 3

312 MR, PITT'S [ De-c 14, ,
what the nature of society will not admit; what has never been
practised in the course of four thousand years, ^ut on what
foundation does this principle, which the honourable gentleman
has broached, rest ? Where is the clear inequality on which he
so vehemently insists ? Is fee industry of fee artist, fee manu
facturer, the mechanic, less fee creature of the protection of
law, less involved in the great contest in which we are engaged,
less likely to be overthrown in any disasters of the state, than
the income which arises from land ? I heard, wife satisfaction^
the argument of the honourable baronet* behind me, though I
cannot, perhaps, go along wife him to the extent to which he
carried it; of feis, certainly! am sure, feat if all classes in feis
country are not strictly equal sharers in fee advantages which
the constitution of this country affords, there are none who
ought not to contribute in proportion to. their means for the
public defence in a quarrel, in which the comforts and the hap
piness of all are so deeply involved, unless when the compassion
ofthe legislature forbears to extend fee scale of taxation to feose
who are in the lowest class of income. The principle of fee
honourable gentleman then is entirely unfounded. In imputing
to him feat extravagant principle, which strikes at the whole
distribution of property in society, I am sure I do nothing which
•his own arguments do not justify ; nor do I think I am mistaken
in stating feose principles, for the honourable gentleman was
particularly careful to repeat his monstrous propositions over
and over again, in proportion as he saw that they were disgust
ing to the feelings of fee house. That industry ought to be en
couraged and promoted, it a sentiment which nobody will dis
pute. It should be remembered, however, feat feis, among
many others, is a case in which virtue is its own reward. What,
then, is the true state of the argument ? An income of 500/.
from land may be equal to about 15,000/. so that a man is con
tented to take three per cent, for his capital. In fee funds, ac
cording to circumstances, and in the different funds, a man may
have five, or even six per cent. If he lays out his capital in trade,
* Sir William Young.

,1798.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. . 343
and adds to it his own industry, he gets from 10 to 15 per cent.
Now, if you leave the proportion undisturbed, what is it that
forms fee encouragement to lay out money in trade and manufac
tures, but the improved produce derived from industry ? This
is the incentive which enftames enterprise, and stimulates in
genuity. Allow that order, under which your commerce and
your arts have risen to such an unexampled height of prosperity
to remain undisturbed, and you preserve that incentive, that
encouragement, and that reward, on which industry depends. I
much doubt, indeed, whether any table which the honourable,
gentleman could form from all the new political lights which he
ever received, could lay fee foundation more secure or more
permanent for arts, commerce, and every kind of exertion, fean
feat on which they have grown so great, and flourished so long.
There is another argument of great authority, which gentle
men employ ; an argument which, for some time past, I have
seen much insisted upon in some of fee newspapers — that feis
was a tiithe, and feat all tythes are unfavourable alike to indus
try. The argument has no application to the present case. The
tenth, which feis bill imposes, is a tenth of the clear profits after
fee expenses of labour have been deducted. The more I have
thought upon feis particular subject and upon taxation in gene
ral, fee more am I convinced not only of the futility, but fee
danger of any attempt, by the distribution of imposts, to make
any difference in that order which the' nature of society has al
ready established. It is necessary to observe the arrangements
-which have been already formed, and to accommodate the pro
portion of taxes to the classes of property which have already
been marked. To proceed beyond this, is to dissolve all estab
lished principles, and to overthrow the fabric of society which
time and the progress of accumulation have reared.
Another curious inference may be drawn from the observa
tions made against the hardships incurred by persons possessed
. of life estates, of temporary ones, and of those who receive the
rewards of laborious employments. It happens singularly enough,
feat the public offices held, under government, uniting in feeir
z4

344 MR. PITT'S [Dec U,
nature profits derived from labour and temporary estates, are
included in fee operation of fee bill. Now, Sir, these gentle
men who oppose it, have proposed on former occasions, as a
great resource for fee national expenditure, that all those offices
should be made to contribute largely to fee public service— I do
not mean sinecures, for feey wished to suppress them. The
calculations furnished feis night are not more exact than feose
of the honourable baronet on feat occasion ; the references cer
tainly were not those of the board of agriculture, [a general
laugh]; but fee honourable baronet had made the prodigious
discovery, -that if all the public offices were placed on a reduced
establishment, and others suppressed, the sum of ten mil
lions would be saved to fee public. I was highly pleased with
fee project, and sincerely wished for fee execution.of it ; but I
was always unfortunately stopped in every attempt! made to go
on with it, by finding that the entire expenses of the public of
fices only amounted to one-tenth of fee prodigious saving which
was so confidently held out. The honourable baronet's attention
has been taken up with agricultural studies and military tactics,
or he might have known, feat a committee appointed for fee
express purpose, had made a very different, calculation. We
have already had a committee of finance, which has discharged
the important duties attached to it in tbe most satisfactory man*
iier— a committee which, except that the honourable baronet
was not a member of it, is perfectly to the mind of every gentle
man in this house, and many of its suggestions for .economy
and regulation have been carried into effect with great advan
tage. — From feis digression, however, into which I have been
carried by tbe subject of offices, I now return.
I was -stating with how little favour fee honourable gentleman
and his friends formerly considered annuities for life in the case
of laborious offices ; let us now see how their old opinions tally
with their new, namely, this branch of income was most ob
noxious to taxation, now it is to be most favoured. The ho
nourable gentleman does not think feat a great increase of taxes
on consumption would be more advantageous than a geueSal tax

ras.} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. $4$
on all income. Is the inequality or fee hardship greater now
than it was, or than it would be, should taxes on consumption
be increased ? If not, then the honourable gentleman is only
quarrelling with this tax, because it is not so unequal as the
former mode of contribution had been. This plan, which is
more general, more comprehensive, which embraces a great deal
of property which formerly eluded taxation, and, by conse
quence, distributes the burden more fairly, is considered inad
missible. But I am told, that a large sum within the year can
not be raised by encressing the existing taxes on consumption.
What is fee consequence ? Does not the honourable gentleman
compel us to resort to the more expensive expedient of raising
money -by loans, instead of adopting a plan more extensive in
its effect, while it provides for fee redemption of what it is ne
cessary to borrow, without feat load of permanent taxes, which
the fending system renders indispensable ? But, it is said that
a tax on capital is preferable. Was it not proved, however,
that from fee state of landed property, not more than- one-third
"of it is now in fee hands of persons who could be called upon to
contribute, so feat two-thirds would be placed wholly out of
reach for any purpose of present exertion? What is fee great
object of fee measure before fee house ? Is it not to raise with
in fee year, from what constitutes fee means of individuals
within fee year, such a proportion as is deemed necessary for the
exigencies of the state, and the magnitude of fee present crisis ?
Do you wish to avoid burdening the public with a loan ? What
advantage would you derive from it, however, if individuals
mortgage their estates ? Would not fee aggregate of private
loans encumber the mass of national wealth as much as -if fee
nation contracted the obligation ? The object then is to make
the annual means of individuals applicable to a supply within the
year. It is objected still that it is unjust that fee man who has an
annuity or an income, the fruit of bis labour, should pay in fee
proportion of a man who has the same revenue from fixed pro
perty. This objection is -altogether a fallacy. A permanent

346 MR. PITT'S t^c. i*;,
estate, which is represented as never dying, and, as it were, the
property of a man after his death, contributes on every exigency
which may occur; the income from labour and industry is ex
tinguished ; it contributes but once ; it is no longer the property
of the same .person ; while fee other, which is considered as the
same property, is subject to renewed demands. This reasoning
may be thought refined; but fee answer is justly applicable in
the case where the reason, why fixed property should contribute
more, is founded on its 'supposed permanency, in opposition to
the fleeting character of fee other. How then is it possible to'
discriminate between the various kinds of property ? or to enter
into fee details which could alone enable you to apply any scale-
of exemption, without an investigation more oppressive, a dis
closure more extensive, than any thing which the bill permits i
How much safer is it to submit to feose inequalities which are
the lot of man, and which it is not fee business, nor is it in the
power, of schemes of finance to correct ! Could we even in
dulge fee wish to correct these inequalities, which arise out of
the very nature of society, is this fee legislative remedy? Let
us then forbear to attempt what is perhaps beyond fee power of
human legislation to correct. It is an enterprize feat would
hurry us far beyond our depth, and lead ta consequences far
more extensive than we can foresee, and might produce an over
throw of all establishments, and all regular order, which it is
impossible to contemplate without apprehension. The principle
of argument that goes to remedy this supposed evil, belongs to
the school of dangerous innovation which we ought not for a mo
ment to indulge. The consequence of feis tax then will be, ,that
¦whoever contributes a tenth of his income under this bill will
have a tenth less to spend, to save, or to accumulate. . At fee
end of fee war those who shall have contributed will be no
poorer; they will only be to the extent of it less increased i«
riches than they would have been. The advantages of it are in '
a particular manner in favour of those on whom it will fall, in
stead of accumulating taxes on consumption, as it will bring all
income to contribute more equally, and include a great deal, of
7

1708.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. $47
feat which, in fee hands of feose who spend less than their in
come, escapes contribution altogether. Laying aside the proud
idea of fee vigour, permanence, and renewing energy which this
measure secures, feere is one case which, with a view to feat
class who are really willing to save for fee benefit of those for
whom feey are bound to provide, makes some modification. It
is in favour of those who have recourse to "that easy, certain,
and advantageous mode of providing for their families by insur
ing feeir lives. In this bill, as in the assessed taxes, a deduction
is allowed for what is paid on this account.
Such is fee general view of the merits of feis important ques
tion. It is one which has engaged much of my serious attention,
and I am far from presuming that it has already attained the per
fection of which it is capable. The inequalities objected to it
are not peculiar to its nature ; they arise from our social state
itself, and fee correction of feat order we. cannot, as we ought
not, attempt to alter. It would be a presumptuous attempt to
derange fee order of society, which would terminate in produc
ing confusion, havock, and destruction, and wife a derange
ment of property, terminate in the overthrow of civilized life.
Ths motion for the further consideration ofthe report was carried ;
Ayes  183
Noes........ YT

January 23, 1799-
The House, pursuant to the order of the day, proceeded to take into con
sideration the following message from his Majesty relative to an Union be
tween Great Britain and Ireland :
" GEORGE R.
" HisMajesty is persuaded that the unremitting industry with which our
enemies persevere in their avowed design of effecting the separation of Ireland
from this kingdom, cannot fail to engage the particular attention of parlia
ment ; and his Majesty recommends it to this house to consider of the most
effectual means of counteracting and finally defeating this design ; and he
trusts that a review of «U the circumstances which have recently occurred

S4& MR. PITT'S [Jaw.. S3,
(joined to the seutiment of mutual affection and common interest), will dis
pose the parliament of both kingdoms to provide, in the manner which they
»hall judge most expedient, for settling such complete and final adjustment as
may best tend to improve and perpetuate a connexion essential for their corn-
jaon security, and to augment and consolidate the strength, power, and re
sources of the British empire* G. R,"
After an address in the usual form had been moved by Mr. Dundas, and
an amendment upon it by Mr. Sheridan entreating his Majesty not to listen-
to the counsel oi those who sliould advise an Union of the legislatures of the
two kingdoms under the existing, circumstances, of .the empire,
Mn. Pitst rose:
Sir, — Considering the manner in which feis subject has been
agitated, I feel feat I ought to make an apology to the house
for creating any delay in the determination of a point, upon
which I really think much difference of opinion cannot subsist ;.
I mean upon fee vote to be given on the question which is now
•before us. But as this point, clear as in itself I take it to be, is
connected with others on which depends the best interest of fee
whole of the British empire, I must ask the indulgence of fee
house, while I advert to the general principle of the subject
which is now before us. It is far from being my intention to do
now, what indeed could not now be regularly attempted^ and
what hereafter it will be my duty to do— I mean, to lay before
feis house a detailed particular of a plan, the spirit of which is
only alluded to in general terms in the gracious communication
from the throne to this house ; feat is what I shall have fee
honour of doing hereafter : the matter for the discussion of fee
house at this moment is comprised in fee original motion of my
right honourable friend,* and the amendment proposed by the.
light honourable gentleman. f
The address proposed in answer to the message, pledges fee
house to nothing more fean that of assuring'his Majesty, feat
you will take into your serious consideration a subject which is
recommended to your care, and which is highly interesting to.
fee welfare of the British empire. The amendment of fee ho-
* Mr. Dundas. + Mr, Sheridan*

1789.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 34g
nourable gentleman calls upon you at once to declare, you will
not deliberate upon fee matter. The honourable gentleman
produced one argument only in support of the conclusion he calls
upon you to draw, and which he says he has established. He
said, near the end of his speech, feat which, if it were true,
would indeed establish his conclusion. He has told you, that
you have no legitimate power of making your deliberations ef
fectual. He has told you, without much argument, what no
other person has hitherto told this house in this house, but what
has been told it and the public, upon whom by the way it is
intended in the first instance to operate, in pamphlets and various
other publications which are daily ushered forth in feis country
and in Ireland, feat you have no legitimate power to determine
npon feis measure. The honourable gentleman adopts that doc
trine. He has taken upon himself to deny fee right of fee par*
liament of either kingdom to determine upon this matter. I
say fee right of fee parliament of either, for he cannot make
any distinction between fee two. If the parliament of Ireland
has no just power or legitimate, authority without the immediate
instruction, not of its constituents merely, but of the people of
Ireland in fee mass, — I say, if the parliament of Ireland has not
any legitimate authority to determine upon feis subject without
the instructions of the people at large, as little has the parlia
ment of England such authority — as little had the parliament
of Scotland feat authority — as little had the parliament of Eng*
land and Scotland that authority when they agreed upon the
union between the two kingdoms — an union under which has
grown up and flourished the prosperity of both ; under which
fee laws of both have been improved ; under which property has
been protected ; under which has been cherished a principle of
cordial co-operation, which has led to the happiness of Great-
Britain, and has rendered it the envy, and, I trust, will make
it fee protection of surrounding nations. You sit in that chair,
Sir — 1 stand here before you — the honourable gentleman himself
Addressed you this night, called upon this house to entertain a
debate, without any right whatever j we are all totally destitute

S5» MR. PITT'S [Jan. 25,
of legitimate authority, if the honourable gentleman is right in
the principle he contended for feis night upon this part of fee
subject. Indeed if he be right in feat principle, you have no
parliament in England possessed of legal and just authority at
this hour; feere is no act which you have performed for the last
ninety years, however well intended, or however effectual for
tbe happiness of the people of Great Britain, that can be said
to be legitimate or legal.
I know not what ideas the honourable gentleman may enter
tain, or what aid lie expects, or what aid he will find ready to
be given to his doctrine^ feat " parliament is not competent to
tbe discussion of this subject." I know it leads immediately to
the system of universal right of suffrage in the people ; to the
doetrine, that each man should have an actual share in fee go
vernment of the country, by having a choice for his represents*
tive ; and then goes back to fee whole system of jacobinism,
which I thought had been pretty nearly exploded. as soon as it
came to be pretty well understood all over Europe. I say, if
tbe honourable gentleman avows feis, then, but not till then,
will his argument upon feis head of the subject be intelligible
and consistent ; for without this, the whole of what he said upon
fee matter will be quite obscure, if not altogether without a
meaning. The honourable gentleman, 1 believe, is not in his
heart any advocate for any such doctrine ; and yet to this length
his argument leads, or there is an end of feat- part of the topiG
he brought before you. If you deny the competence of parlia
ment which fully and freely represents all the people of this*
country (and here let it be remembered feat I am using no lan
guage of my own, but am following fee approved language of
our ancestors), there is an end of all your authority, not in this
point only, but in every other point. Now, let us see how this
will apply to fee argument of the honourable gentleman in the
rest of his speech to-night. He complains that a question is
agitated," and an address is moved upon this subject. The ad*
dress is moved, as I said yesterday in feis house it was intended
to be moved, and it involves a question uppn which I thou

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. SSI
there would be no opposition. — Why ? Because the detail of tha
matter would not now be brought forward. That is reserved
for another opportunity ; and however necessary the measure
may be, and I am convinced it is, yet I know it has, and must
have its difficulties. I know it is liable, necessarily liable, to a
thousand difficulties, because subject to a thousand prejudices
and partial objections ; to sentiments hastily conceived by some,
and eagerly adopted by others, to local and confined views, to
personal affections, and to a multitude of impediments, which,
however firm our own opinions may. be of fee indispensable ne
cessity of the measure for fee happiness, and even fee security
of fee British empire, yet have induced his Majesty's ministers
not to enter upon fee detail at this moment. Upon feese topics,
therefore, I shall decline for the present entering upon any ex
planation. But although I do not think it right to detail fee
subject at feis moment, and although I may have feat honour
at another time, yet I must say that the honourable gentleman's
complaint against surprise is extremely ill founded. I think
that if any complaint could fairly be urged against us upon that
subject, it would be that we have shewn perhaps too much cau
tion against surprise; and although, for fee reasons I have ak
leged already) I shall decline at present entering upon any de
tail ofthe plan which rs intended to be submitted to parliament,
1 must be allowed to answer the objections of fee honourable
gentleman. Here then let me again observe, that after a mes
sage comes from fee throne, recommendingin substance an union.
between the two kingdoms, nothing in the first instance is pro
posed but a general address, pledging the house to nothing more
than feat it will take fee subject into serious consideration. A
day is stated, on which fee outline of the plan to be submitted
to parliament is to be opened, that is fee general principle of
" the measure. The discussion is further to be postponed, nor is
it proposed that parliament shall be called upon to determine
upon it until after due time has been taken for ample deliberation.
} should have thought the honourable gentleman himself would

352 MR. PITT'S [ Jan. 93,
have at least allowed feere was candour and fairness in fee mode
of fee proceeding.
If, therefore, fee case be as I state it — if his Majesty has re
commended the subject to your deliberation— if fee address
contains only a pledge that you will deliberate, the short ques
tion is— Should you now adopt the mode which those who have
the honour of serving his Majesty presume to recommend to you
gravely, and on which time will be given to deliberate on all its
parts ; or should you pronounce in the first instance, witliout
examination, that it is a measure wholly unnecessary, or so dan
gerous, or impracticable, or so attended with evils', that you
will not even so much as inquire into its contents, feat you will
at once shut fee door against it ? The honourable gentleman
seems to think so. It is not enough for us to say we shall bring
forward a proposition, involving in it fee happiness of fee whole
of fee British empire, including points requiring great attention,
upon which we do not desire your immediate decision, but we
desire you to tell the throne, in answer to its gracious commu
nication, that you will consider the subject. The honourable
gentleman says No ! you shall enter upon no enquiry upon the
matter ; I know enough of it already to convince you that you
ought to reject it at once. If that be fee, proposition of fee ho
nourable gentleman, and so it is, 1 conceive feat he is bound to
make out that proposition to your satisfaction, in which case I
conceive he is called upon to prove, either that the present state
of Ireland is such that it requires no remedy whatever, or that
if it does require a remedy, a better may be proposed fean any
which has an union for its basis, or feat an union, at all events,
must be such an evil feat you ought not to deliberate upon it at
all. This may be the opinion of fee honourable gentleman, but
has he stated any thing to make out fee -propriety of feat opi
nion ? For many years past I have heard frojm-feat honourable
gentleman and his friends upon the affairs of Ireland nothing
but complaints and lamentations. They have been in fee con
stant habit of declaiming, sometimes upon fee unjust and cruel,

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 353
at ofeer times upon the inefficient and defective system by which
Ireland not only has been governed by the executive, but also by
the deliberative powers of the country. We have often been re
minded ofthe unfortunate distraction of all its parts of govern
ment, and of the evils which have resulted from the whole col
lectively ; nay we have been told, and that pretty confidently,
from a gentleman who usually took the lead on fee ofeer side of
feis house, that the system by which Ireland was governed was
radically defective ; that indeed it was so full of deformity in its
,very constitution, as that, if we wished to answer fee cavils of
..those who disputed fee beauty of fee constitution of Great Bri
tain, we could not do better fean desire feem to look at her
sister, who was so ugly, that when she was beheld, all objections
against the other would vanish. I remember these things full
well, Sir, and I know not how fee honourable gentleman has
.forgotten them, and how he comes now to see none of feese de
fects. How he comes all at once to be satisfied that feis was an
unjust picture of Ireland ; how he comes to be all at once satis
fied, that Ireland is as secure as she had need to be; that her
.government wants no remedy — is not for me, but for him to. ex
plain to feis house. The novelty of his praise of fee parliament
of Ireland is not to be suspected by me as an insincere compli
ment. He has certainly seen feat parliament do much that de
served praise, but he has not seen enough to enable him to prove
feat the happiness of feat country is perfectly secure ; he has
notseen enough to prove that feerehas not lately been feere ades-
perate rebellion ; he has not seen enough to prove feat feis house
. should conclude feat the safety of that part of the British em
pire is at this/ moment perfectly secure ; he has not seen enough
to enable him to prove feat feere exist not at feis hour in Ire
land evils which we all deplore, and which we have much more
reason to deplore fean we had feose which he has so repeatedly,
,and so vehemently, in conjunction wife others, called to fee at-
. tention of feis house — I say fee evils to which Ireland is at thi3
moment exposed, and fee still greater evils to which it may here -
after be exposed, if the wisdom of the legislature of the two
VOL. III. 2 A

354 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 23,
countries does not prevent it. I say feat Ireland is subject to
great and deplorable evils, which have a deep root, for feey lie
in the situation of the Country itself— in the present character,
manners and habits of its inhabitants — in tlieir want of intelli
gence, or, in ofeer words, feeir ignorance — in the unavoidable
separation between certain classes — in the state of property—:
in its religious distinctions — in the rancour which bigotry engen
ders and superstition rears and cherishes.
The honourable gentleman tells us feese are evils which can
not be cured in a moment. I know they cannot, Sir, but the
question is, whether we should not adopt some plan which may
lead to that cure in the course of time ? If indeed it could have
been done by what feat honourable gentleman and his friends
bave often recommended in this house, by what they call a ca
tholic emancipation and a parliamentary reform, the task would
have been a good deal easier than in truth it is ; but catholic
emancipation and parliamentary reform is a phrase made use of
by some to cover designs of a very different nature. If such an
object could be kept in view and be attained by calm, dispas^
^ionate, sober investigation, no man would be readier than my
self to assent to any measure for feat purpose. But if fee state
of society is such, that laws, however wise in themselves, will be
ineffectual as to their object until the manners and customs of fee
people are altered — if men are in a state of poverty in which it
is impossible they can bave any comfort — if the progress of ci
vilization depends in a great measure upon fee distribution Of
wealth — if the improvement of feat wealth depends much upon
fee distribution of capital — if all the advantages to be derived
from an increase of national wealth depend much upon the tem
per of fee inhabitants — if those advantages together wife fee still
greater advantage of mental improvement, are all retarded by
the distractions and divisions of party, by the blind zeal arid
phrenzy of religious prejudices, by old and furious family feuds
— if all, I say, combine to make a country wretched, what is the
remedy ? An impartial legislature standing aloof from local
party connexion, sufficiently removed from the influence of con-

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 355
tending factions, to be advocate or champion of neither — being
so placed as to have no superstitious reverence for the names
and prejudices of ancient families, who have so long enjoyed fee
exclusive monopolies of certain public patronages and property,
which custom has sanctioned, and which modern necessity may
justify—a legislature who will neither give way to fee haughty
pretensions of a few, nor open fee door to popular inroads, to
clamour, or to invasion of all sacred forms and regularities, un
der the false and imposing colours of philosophical improvement
in the art of government. This is fee thing feat is wanted for
Ireland. Where is it to be fouhd ? In that country, where the
evils which I have enumerated exist, or in this ? That is to say,
where should that legislature deliberate? In a place where the
utmost effort of what is called patriotism amounts to nothing
more than an aim at temporary popularity, as is evident from
what has happened ; or in a place where fee discussion is calm
and temperate ? Certainly the latter, that is, in England. To
neglect to establish such a legislature, when it is possible to do
so, I say is an imprudence which nothing can justify. I say
also, that much of the evil which Ireland now labours under,
arises unavoidably from the condition of the parliament of that
country. One point at which I have just hinted, is fee want of intro
duction of capital into that country. How can feat be remov
ed ? By connexion and intercourse with Great Britain, which
will improve fee temper and manners, as well as the understand
ings of fee people of Ireland : by a parliament feat shall have
no jealousies from local prejudices ; feis can only be fee case
wheu a parliament deliberates in England, and feat, too, upon fee
interest of both countries united. I say it is upon this, and this
ouly, that the happiness of fee people of that country depends,
and I say too, that, upon this view of the subject, fee honoura
ble gentleman, instead of opposing, should be led to support the
measure before us, as being peculiarly adapted to meet evils, of
which he as well as many of his friends have frequently com
plained. But he has not scrupled to tell us feat he is astonished
2 a 2 '

356 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 23,
to hear, for fee first time, feat the final adjustment, as lie calls
it, which was made in the year 1782, has been found incompe
tent to fee blessings it was intended to convey. What were fee
objects which were then in view ? The independence of fee le
gislature of that country most certainly ; but I beg leave to add,
that there was a resolution entered into in the Irish parliament,
the substance of which is, — feat theinterests of GreatBritain and
Ireland are inseparable, feat the connexion ought to be founded
On a permanent and solid basis, and feat Ireland would adopt
such measures as should be consistent with its own internal tran
quillity, for which its situation fits it, and as may be connected
with the strength and stability of fee whole of the British em
pire. Here then is a proof feat something was left to be done
after the legislature of Ireland gained its independence. This
resolution was carried to the throne, but nothing was ever done
upon it. What am I now proposing for the sake of Ireland?
I am not content that Ireland shall have some benefits as part of
fee British empire ; but I am proposing, that Ireland shall be
allowed to participate of the blessings which at present England
enjoys. •
It was said by fee honourable gentleman, that this country had
Oppressed Ireland for three hundred years : feat is not a point to
which I assent; but I will say that for one hundred years this
country has followed a very narrow policy with regard to feat
country. It manifested a very absurd jealousy concerning fee
growth, produce, and manufacture of several articles — I say that
these jealousies will be buried by fee plan which is now to be
brought before you. I say that when you have two independent
parliaments in one empire, you have no security for a continu
ance of their harmony and cordial co-operation. We all have in
our mouths a sentence, feat every good Englishman and good
Irishman feels— we must stand or fall together — we should
live and die together ; and yet without such a measure as that
which is about to be proposed to you, there can be no security
for the continuance of that sentiment. I say the happiness of
both countries ought to be perpetual : as it stands now it is liable

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 357
to a thousand accidents ; it depends now upon the violence of
the moment ; it may be governed, as 1 have said already, upon
views of temporary popularity, or upon the personal convenience
of a few individuals, a tenure upon which the happiness of a
nation ought never to depend. I am not stating these things
without foundation, but am referring to what was done by two
champions of parties in that country and in feis, fee one of
whom* had a large pecuniary reward for his labours, andtheotherf
was the subject of great panegyric in feat country and in feis.
They were satisfied when fee legislature of Ireland was declared
independent of feis country. True it is, feat fee parliament of
that country was declared independent of this. It had what was
supposed to be, sovereign power ; it has fee power of dictating
to the executive authority upon the questions of war and peace,
in the same controlling manuer as fee parliament of feis country
has: but what security is there that they will both agree upon
all questions hereafter, in which the general interest of fee Bri
tish empire is involved ? Is it a difficult thing to suppose a case
in which feey may clash, and become perhaps as hostile to one
another as any two independent bodies politic in Europe ? I have
no difficulty in saying that such a case might possibly happen,
nor do I think that much was gained by fee declaration of the
independence of feat parliament, or ever will be gained to the
British empire, until there is some security that both legislatures
will go on harmoniously together upon all questions in which fee
general interests of the British empire are involved. Neither
do I much admire fee philosophy of that person who thinks he
has completed a beautiful new fabric when he has only complete*
ed the destruction of an old one ; who calls that destruction " the
most stupendous pile of human wisdom that ever was exhibited
to the world." i,When I find such a man after fee act was passed
which declared the independence of fee Irish parliament, assent
ing to the principle of a resolution of a committee, stating that
the connexion between the two countries should be established
by mutual consent on a solid and permanent basis, and when.
* Mr. Grattan. + Mr. JFox.
2 A 3

358 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 23,
I find feat such a resolution was carried to the throne, as I have
said already, and when I reflect that nothing was afterwards done
ppoii that resolution to carry it into effect, I have fee authority
of that person and his friends that what was done in declaring fee
parliament of Ireland independent, was defective in a point
which is indispensable for fee happiness of the people of Ireland,
and indeed of both countries. I think then I may say that fee
onus is upon those who oppose the measure now before us to
shew its'bad tendency, rather fean upon us to shew its probable
good effect, for their own conduct proclaims fee absolute neces
sity of something being done ; it is incumbent upon all those who
took a part in the discussion of that subject, and who approved
of the measure — the childish measure of the independence of the
parliament of Ireland ! — without any security that the parlia
ment of that country and of this would never differ essentially
upon any point in which the happiness of the British empire may
be involved, to shew it, and upon the honourable gentleman who
moved this amendment, as much as any one, for he took an ac
tive share in fee parliamentary proceedings to which I have just
alluded. . How stands fee case in point of experience ? Is there a pro
bability, or is there not, that the parliaments of the two countries
may differ upon a point that may be essentially interesting to fee
British empire ? I say you have a guide npon that subject. You
may profit by experience.*^-! mean by the case of the regency.
The honourable gentleman says that there was no difference
between the two parliaments as to fee regent. Why, no, Sir,
feere was no difference as to fee person who was to be regent ;
but feere was an essential difference as to the principle on which
feat person was to be regent ; the Irish parliament decided on
one principle, fee English parliament on another, and their bay
ing agreed on fee person was accidental.; and upon the distinct
principles on which the two parliaments proceeded, feey might
as well have differed upon the person who was to be, as on fee
powers to be granted to the regent. Now let any man tell me
feat feis is not at) instance of an essential difference upon a point

1799-] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 353
that was essential to fee welfare ofthe British empire : and let any
man shew me what security there is that an essential difference up
on some other object may not hereafter occur between the two par
liaments. That they have not hitherto differed in fee great and
momentous events which have been agitated before parliament,
is a good fortune which has arisen from one general cause, that
of all descriptions of persons having united against one common
enemy, with fee exception only of a few, whose counsels, hap
pily for both countries, and for fee civilized part ofthe world,
have lost all feeir influence. But will any man tell me, that such
difference as was manifested in the time of the regency will never
occur again ? Will any man tell me, when we come to treat
of peace, for instance, or to consider any subject of alliance with
any foreign power, or upon any question of trade or commerce,
that then the local prejudices, I say prejudices, for they have great
influence, may not occasion a difference between the legislatures
upon points feat may be essential to the welfare of tbe British
empire ? No matter what the cause of the difference may be,
it is ..enough that there may be such a difference. A party in
England may give to fee throne one species of advice by it,s par
liament; a party in Ireland may advise directly opposite,
upon the most essential points that involve the safety of both
— upon alliance with a foreign power, for instance ; upon fee
army ; upon the navy ; upon any branch of fee public service ;
upon trade ; upon commerce ; or, upon any point feat might be
essential to the empire at largej Let any man tell me, what
would have been fee consequence to both England and Ireland,
had the dissensions in Ireland been the same in point of force
against fee executive government in parliament, since fee com
mencement of the present war, as feey were at the time the Irish
propositions were rejected ? Had feese men who were at fee
head of opposition either in that country or in feis, possessed the
confidence of any considerable part of the public, will any man
tell me, that any minister would have been able to save this coun
try or Ireland from destruction ? But happily for us, happily
for every part of the civilized world, the iniquity of the common
2 a 4

360 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 23,
enemy, united us all; else all fee'evils which I have already stat
ed, together wife the poison of jacobinism, would have come
upon us, and, such a complication would have soon completed"
fee ruin of our empire; but fortunately, I say, fee counsels of
those who favoured such principles were rejected with disdain by
the good sense of mankind at large. But when feat cement by
which fee two legislatures have been held together, shall cease
to operate, what security is feere for the continuance of cordial
co-operation ? None whatever ; fee probability of its continu
ance is more than doubtful ; for I do say, for the reasons I have
alleged already, that the present state of society in Ireland, as
well as its representation, which partakes of the nature of feat
society, is radically defective.
I am aware, Sir, feat I have spoken at a greater length on feis
subject than might have been expected in its present stage. I
have thought a great deal upon this subject, and what I have
said has been nothing but fee result of my own observations. I
am bound to convey to feis house eyery information which it may
be in my power to give ; but however acceptable to the one or'
to the other side of the house, however acceptable or otherwise
to feose whom I respect on the other side the water, my senti
ments upon this subject may be, my duty compels me to speak
them freely. I see fee case so plainly, and I feel it so strongly,
that there is no circumstance of apparent or probable difficulty,
no apprehension of popularity, no fear of toil or labour, that
shall prevent me from using every exertion which remains in my
• power to. accomplish the work that is now before us, and on which;
I am persuaded depend fee infernal tranquillity of Ireland, the
interest of the British empire at large, and, I hope, I may add,
fee happiness of a great part ofthe habitable world.
The amendment was negatived without a division, and the motion for ths?
acfdress was then put and carried.

17&J.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 36 1

Januarys!, 1799-
The order of the day being read for taking into further consideration his
Majesty's message relative to an Union between Great Britain and Ireland,
" GEORGE R.
" His Majesty is persuaded that the unremitting industry with which our
enemies persevere in their avowed design of effecting the separation of Ire
land from this kingdom, cannot fail to engage the particular attention of par
liament ; and his Majesty recommends it to this House to consider of the most
effectual means of counteracting, and finally defeating, this design ; and he
trusts that « review of all the circumstances which have recently occurred
(joined to the sentiment of mutual affection and common interest) will dispose
the parliaments of both kingdoms to provide in the manner which they shall
judge most expedient, for settling such a complete and final adjustment as
may best tend to improve and perpetuate a connexion essential for their com
mon security, and to augment and consolidate the strength, power, and re
sources, of the British empire ; — ' G. R."
Mr. Pitt, rose, and spoke as follows :
Sir — When I proposed to fee house, fee last time this subject
was before them, to fix feis day for the further consideration of
his Majesty's message, I certainly indulged fee hope that the re
sult of a similar communication to the parliament of Ireland
would have opened a more favourable prospect than at pre
sent exists, of the speedy accomplishment of a measure which
I then stated, and which I still consider, to be of fee greatest
importance to the power, the stability, and fee general welfare of
fee empire; to the immediate interests of both kingdoms,; and
more particularly to the peace, fee tranquillity, and the safety of
Ireland : in this hope, I am sorry to say, I have for the present-
been disappointed, by fee proceedings of the Irish house of com
mons, of which we have been informed since this subject was last
under consideration. -
I feel and know that the parliament of Ireland possesses fee
power, the entire competence, on the behalf of that country,
alike to acceptor reject a proposition of this, nature — a power
which I am by no means inclined to dispute. I see feat at the
present moment one house of parliament in Ireland has express*

362

MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,

ed a repugnance even to the consideration of this measure.
Feeling, Sir, as I have already stated, that it is important, not
only as it tends to the general prosperity of the empire of
Great Britain, but (what, under every situation, must always be
to me an object of the greatest moment) feeling that it was de
signed" and calculated to increase the prosperity and ensure fee
safety of Ireland, I must have seen with the deepest regret, that,
at the very first moment, and before the nature of the measure
could be known, it was so received.
But whatever may have been my feelings upon this subject,
knowing feat it is fee undoubted right of the legislature of Ire
land to reject or to adopt such measures as may appear to feem
injurious or beneficial, far be it from me to speak of its determi
nation in any other terms but those of respect. Let it not,
therefore, be imagined that I am inclined to press any sentiment,
however calculated it may appear to me to benefit every member
of fee empire, in any manner which may lead to hostile discus
sion between two kingdoms,1 whose mutual happiness and safety
depend upon their being strictly and cordially united. But
while 1 admit and respect fee rights of the parliament of Ire
land, I feel feat, as a member of fee parliament of Great Bri
tain, I also have a right to exercise, and a duty to perform.
That duty is to express, as distinctly as 1 can, the general nature
and outline of the plan, which, in my couscience, I think woqld
tend in the strongest manner to ensure the safety and the happi
ness of both kingdoms.
While I feel, therefore, feat as long as fee house of commons
of Ireland view the subject in the light they do at present, there
is no chance of its adoption, I do not think that I ought on feat
account to abstain from submitting it to the consideration of this
parliament; on the contrary, I think it only the more necessary
to explain distinctly the principles of fee measure, and to state
the grounds upon which it appears to me to be entitled to the ap
probation of the legislature.
If parliament, when it is in possession of the basis upon which
feis plan is founded, and of its general outline, should be of opi-
1

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 36$
nion with me, that it is founded upon fair, just, and equitable
principles, calculated to produce mutual advantages to fee two
kingdoms — if parliament, I say, upon full explanation, and after
mature deliberation, should be of feat opinion, I should propose
that its determination sliould remain recorded as that1 by which
the parliament of Great Britain is ready to abide, leaving to the
legislature of Ireland to reject or to adopt it hereafter, upon a
full consideration of fee subject.
There is no man who will deny, feat, in a great question of
this nature, involving in it objects which, in the first instance, are
more likely to be decided upon by passion fean by judgment ;—
in a question in which an honest, but, I must be allowed to say,
a mistaken, sense of national pride is so likely to operate, much
misconstruction and misconception must inevitably happen. It
therefore becomes the more necessary that fee intentions of the
government which proposes the measure, and the principles of the
measure itself, should be distinctly understood. But, Sir, in stat
ing that intention and feose principles,! look to something more
than a mere vindication of government for having proposed the
measure. I do entertain a confidence, even under the apparent
discouragement of the opinion expressed by the Irish house of
commons, that this measure is founded upon such clear, such de
monstrable grounds of utility, is so calculated to add to the
strength and power of the empire, (in which fee safety of Ireland
is included, and from which it never can be separated) and is
attended with so many advantages to Ireland in particular,
that all feat can be necessary for its ultimate adoption is,
that it should be stated distinctly, temperately, and fully, and
that it should be left to the unprejudiced, the dispassionate, the
sober judgment of the parliament of Ireland. I wish feat those
whose interests are involved in this measure should have time
for its consideration — I wish feat time should be given to the
landed, to fee mercantile, and manufacturing interest, that
feey should look at it in all its bearings, and that they should
fpoolly examine and sift fee popular arguments by which it has

3S4 MR. PITT'S [Sax. 31,
been opposed, and feat then they should give their deliberate
and final judgment.
1 am fee more encouraged in this hope of fee ultimate success
of this measure, when I see, notwithstanding all the prejudices
which it has excited, that barely more than one half of the mem
bers feat attended tbe house of commons were adverse to it |
- and feat in the other house of parliament in Ireland, containing,
as it does, so large a portion of the property of that kingdom,
it was approved of by a large majority. When I have reason
to believe that the sentiments of a large part of the people
of that country are favourable to it, and that much of the ma
nufacturing, and of fee commercial interest of Ireland, are al
ready sensible bow much it is calculated to promote their ad
vantage, I think, when it is more deliberately examined, and
when it is seen in what temper it is here proposed and discussed,
feat it will still terminate in that which can alone be a fortunate
result.' It would be vain indeed to hope feat a proposition upon which
prejudices are so likely to operate, and which is so liable to mis
conception, should be unanimously approved: But the appro
bation I hope for is feat of the parliament of Ireland, and of fee
intelligent part of the public of that country. It is wife a view
to feis object feat I thirik it my duty to bring this measure for
ward at present; not for the sake of urging its immediate adop
tion, but that it may be known and recorded ; that fee intention
of fee British parliament may be known, in fee hope that it will
produce similar sentiments among our countrymen in Ireland.
With feis view, it is my intention not to go at present into any
detailed statement of fee plan, because, should it ultimately be
adopted, fee minuter parts must necessarily become the objects
of much distinct discussion ; but to give such a general state*
ment of the nature of fee measure, as will enable the bouse to
form a correct judgment upon it.
I shall therefore, Sir, before I sit down, open to the house a
string of resolutions, comprising fee general heads of this plan.

1709.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 363
It will be necessary for me, for fee purpose of discussing feose
resolutions wife regularity and convenience, to move feat fee
house should resolve itself into a committee. And I have already
stated, that it is not my intention then to press the committee to
come to an immediate decision upon the resolutions ; but if, up
on full and deliberate examination, the resolutions which I shall
have the honour to propose,and which contain as much as is ne
cessary for an outline of the plan, shall be approved, my opinion
is, feat nothing can contribute more to obviate any doubts and
dissatisfaction which may exist, than that parliament should
adopt those resolutions, and that it should then humbly lay them
at fee foot of fee throne, leaving it to his Majesty's wisdom to
communicate feem to fee parliament of Ireland, whenever cir
cumstances should appear favourable to such a measure. I shall
therefore, Sir, proceed as shortly as I can to state to the house
the nature of the resolutions, and of fee address which I shall
propose to accompany feem, if it should be the pleasure of the
house to adopt feem.
Having now, Sir, explained to the house the mode I mean to
pursue, and my reasons for persisting, under the present circum
stances, in submitting this measure to fee consideration of parlia
ment, I will endeavour to state the general grounds on which it
rests, fee general arguments by which it is recommendedr and to
give a short view of the outline of the plan.
As to the general principle upon which the whole of this mea
sure is founded, I am happy to observe, from what passed upon
a former occasion, that there is not a probability of any differ
ence of opinion. The general principle, to which both sides of
fee house perfectly acceded, is, feat a perpetual connection be
tween Great Britain and Ireland is essential to fee interests of
both. The only honourable gentleman who, when this subject
was before the house on a former day, opposed fee consideration
of the plan altogether, stated, in terms as strong as I could wish,
fee necessity of preserving the strictest connection between the
two countries. I most cordially agree wife him in that opinion.;

SrJfJ MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,
but I then stated, that I do not barely wish for fee maintenance
of feat connection, as tending to add to the general strength of
fee empire, but I wish for the maintenance of it wife a peculiar
regard to fee local interests of Ireland, wife a regard to every
thing that can give to Ireland its due weight and importance, as
a great member of the empire. I wish for it wife a view of giv
ing to that country fee means of improving all its great natural
resources, and of giving it a full participation of all those bles
sings which this country so eminently enjoys.
Considering fee subject in this point of view, and assuming it
as a proposition not to be controverted, that it is the duty pf those
who wish to promote fee interest and prosperity of both coun
tries, to maintain the strongest connection between them, let me
ask, what is the situation of affairs that has called us to the dis
cussion of this subject ? This very connection, the necessity of
which has been admitted on all hands, has been attacked by fo
reign enemies,, and by domestic traitors. The dissolution of this
connection is the great object of the hostility of fee common
enemies of both countries ; it is almost the only remaining hope
with which they now continue the contest. Baffled and defeated
as feey have hitherto been, feey still retain the hope, they are
still meditating attempts, to dissolve that connection. In how
many instances already the defeat of their hostile designs has
been turned to the confirmation of our strength and security, I
need not enumerate. God grant that in feis instance the same
favour of divine Providence, which has in so many instances pro
tected this empire, may again interpose in our favour, and that
the attempts of the enemy to separate the two countries, may
tend ultimately to knit them more closely together, to strength
en a connection, the best pledge for fee happiness of both, and
so add to that power which forms the chief barrier to the civi
lized world, against the destructive principles, fee dangerous pro
jects, and the unexampled usurpation of France ! This connec
tion has been attacked not only by the avowed enemies of both .
.countries, but by internal treason, acting in concert with fee de-

1799. J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 307
signs of the enemy — internal treason, which ingrafted jacobinism
on those diseases which necessarily grew out of the state and
condition of Ireland.
Thinking, then, as we all must think, feat a close connection
with Ireland is essential to the interests of both countries, and
seeing how much this connection is attacked, let it not be insinu
ated that it is unnecessary, much less improper, at this arduous
and important crisis, to see whefeer some new arrangements,
some fundamental regulations, are not necessary, to guard against
the threatened danger. The foreign and domestic enemies of
these kingdoms have shewn, that feey think feis fee vulnerable
point in which we may be most successfully attacked : let us de
rive advantage, if we can, from the hostility of our enemies ;
let us profit by the designs of those who, if their conduct dis
plays no true wisdom, at least possess in an eminent degree that
species of wisdom which is calculated for fee promotion of mis
chief. They know upon what footing feat connection rests at
this moment between the two countries, and feey feel the most
ardent hope, that the two parliaments will be infatuated enough
not to render feeir designs abortive, by fixing that connection
upon a more solid basis.
These circumstances, I am sure, will not be denied. And if
upon ofeer grounds we had any doubt, these circumstances' alone
ought to induce us, deliberately and dispassionately, to review
the situation of fee two countries, and to endeavour to find out
a proper remedy for an evil, the existence of which is but too
apparent. Il requires but a moment's reflection, for any mau
who has marked fee progress of events, to decide upon the true
state and character of this connection. It is evidently one which
does not afford that security which, even in times less danger
ous and less critical than tbe present, "would have been neces
sary, to enable the empire to avail itself of its strength and
its resources.
When I last addressed the house on this subject, I stated that
the settlement, which was made in 1782, so far from deserving
fee name of a final adjustment, was one that left the connec-

368 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,
tion between Great.Britam and Ireland exposed to all the at
tacks of party, and all fee effects of accident. That settlement
consisted in fee demolition of fee system which before held the
two countries together. Let me not be understood as expressing
any regret at the termination of feat system. I disapproved
of it, because I thought it was one unworthy fee liberality of
Great Britain, and injurious to fee interests of Ireland. But to
call thatja system in itself — to call that a glorious fabric of hu
man wisdom, which is no more than the mere demolition of ano
ther system, is a perversion of terms which, however prevalent
of late, can only be the effect of gross misconception, or of great
hypocrisy. We boast that we haye done every thing, when we h^ve merely
destroyed all feat before existed, without substituting any thing
in its place. Such was the final adjustment of 1782 ; and I can
prove it to be so, not only from fee plainest reasoning, but I can
prove it by the opinion expressed by the British parliament at
feat very time. I can prove it by the opinion expressed by those
very ministers by .whom it was proposed and conducted. I can
prove it by the opinion of that very government who boast of
having effected a final adjustment. 1 refer for what I have said
' to proofs which they will find it very difficult to answer— I mean
feeir own acts, which will plainly shew feat they were of opi
nion feat a new system would be necessary.
But, Sir, I will go farther — I will also produce'the authority
of one of feose whose influence, on fee present occasion, has
been peculiarly exerted to prevent fee discussion of the question
in Ireland — of one, of whom I do not wish to speak but wife re
spect, but for whom, nevertheless, I should convey an idea of
more respect than I can now feel to be due to him, if I were
merely to describe him as the person who fills the same situation,
in fee house of commons of Ireland, which you, Sir, hold
among us, and of which, on all occasions, you discharge the du
ties wife a dignity and impartiality which reflects so much credit
on yourself, and so well supports the character and authority of
fee house.

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 3G9
On a former night, I read an extract from the journals, to.
shew what was the opinion even of those by whom fee final ad
justment was proposed on feat measure. It would feere appear,
that'the message was sent to the parliament of Ireland, recom
mending to them the adoption of some plan for a final adjust
ment between the two countries, and wishing to know what were
fee grounds of the grievances of which they complained. In an
swer to this message, the parliament of Ireland stated certain
grievances, fee principal of which was, fee power claimed by
the parliament of Great Britain of making laws to bind Ireland ;
but, wife respect to feat part of the message whicb> related to the
propriety of adopting some measures for a final adjustment be
tween fee two countries, feey were wholly silent. This. address
was laid before fee parliament of Great Britain, to whom a simi
lar message bad been previously sent, and on that ground was
moved fee repeal of what was called the declaratory act ; which
motion was assented to by the British parliament. This satis
faction was complete in Ireland, as far as related to the griev
ance of which her parliament had complained, viz. the power of
the British parliament of making laws for Ireland, because, by
the repeal of the declaratory act, that power was given up.
But so far was the minister of that day from considering that the
repeal of that law finally terminated all differences, and esta
blished the connection between the two countries upon a solid
basis, that he thought it necessary to move that a farther settle
ment "was indispensable for the maintenance of that connection.
[ Mr. Sheridan across fee table, desired that that part of the
journals to which Mr. Pitt alluded might be read.] Sir, I
have stated the substance of fee journals correctly ; they
were read on a former night, and the honourable gentleman
may, if he chuses, have feem read again; if he does, he
will find feat feey fully justify fee statement I have made ; but
I beg that at present I may not be interrupted. I do maintain,
that, upon a reference to the journals of fee period to which I
have alluded, it will appear that a farther agreement between
VOL. III. 2 B

370 MR. PITT'S ths. jh,
Great Britain and Ireland is there stated, in fee opinion of the
administration of fee day, to be absolutely necessary. _
I beg farther to state, that after the motion for the bill, of
which so much has been said, was passed, an address to his
Majesty was moved and carried, praying him to. take such fur
ther measures as to him seemed proper, to strengthen the con
nection between fee two countries. His Majesty's most gra
cious answer, stating feat, in compliance wife the address, he
would immediately take such measures as might be necessary for
that purpose, was delivered to fee house by an honourable gen
tleman*, who then filled the office of secretary of state, and
whom we have not lately seen in fee house, though he still con
tinues to be a member of it. I do assert, without the least
fear of contradiction from any gentleman whatever, feat it was
in the contemplation of fee government of feat day, to adopt ,
some measures of the nature alluded to in the address ; since
feat period, however, no such measure has been taken. I do
also maintain, feat that very system which by these very minisr 4
ters who brought it forward was found to be imperfect, even for
fee purpose of maintaining fee connection between the two coun
tries, remains at feis moment in the same imperfect state. It
leaves the two countries with separate and independent legisla
tures, connected only wife this tie, that fee third estate in both
countries is the same — feat tbe executive government is the same
—that fee crown exercises its power of assenting to Irish acts of
parliament, under the great seal of Great Britain, and by fee ad
vice of British ministers.
This is the only principle of connection whickisleft by the
final adjustment of 1-782. Whefeer this is a sufficient tie to unite
feem in time of peace; whether in time of war it is sufficient to
consolidate their strength against a common enemy; whether it
is sufficient to guard against those local jealousies which must
necessarily sometimes exist between countries so connected ;-
whether it is calculated to give to Ireland all fee important cornr'
mercial and political advantages which she would derive fronva
* Mr. Tot.

11-99,] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 871
closer connection with Great Britain ; whether it can give to both
nations that degree of strength and prosperity which must be the
result of such a measure as the present, I believe needs only to
be stated to be decided.
But I have already said, that I have, upon this point* the au
thority of an opinion to which I before alluded — an opinion de
livered upOn a very important measure, very soon after the final
adjustment of 1782. The measure to which I refer, was feat of
the commercial propositions which were brought forward in 1785;
I am not now going to enter into a discussion of fee merits of
that measure. The best, perhaps, feat can be said of it is, that
it went as far as circumstances would then permif, to draw the
two countries to a closer connection.But feose who think that thfe
adjustment of 1 782 was final, and feat it contained all that was
necessary for fee establishment of fee connection between the
two countries upon a firm basis, can hardly contend that the
Commercial propositions of 1785 were necessary to prevent thfc
danger of separation between the two countries, and to prevent
the conflicting operation of independent legislatures. Yet, if I
am not mistaken, feere will be found, upon a reference to better
records than those' in which parliamentary debates are usually
stated (1 mean a statement of what passed in fee discussion'
upon those propositions fourteen years agoy made,- as I have un
derstood, by some of the principal parties themselves),' feat the
chancellor of tbe exchequer of that day in Ireland,'* in a debate-
upon fee Irish propositions, held feis language — " If feis in
fatuated "country gives up the present offer, she may look for it
again in vain." Here fee right honourable gentleman was hap
pily mistaken ; Ireland has again had the offer of the same ad
vantages, but more complete, and in all respects better calcu
lated to attain their object ; and this offer tbe right honourable
gentleman has exerted all bis influence to reject. But he
goes on to say — " tilings cannot remain as they are— Com
mercial jealousy is roused— it will increase with two indc<
* Mr. Foster.
SJ2

372 MR. PITT'S [JAN.31f
pendent legislatures — and without an united interest in com
merce, in a commercial' empire, political union will receive
many shocks; and separation of interest milst threaten separation
of connection, which every honest Irishman must shudder to look
at, as a possible event."
Gentlemen will have the goodness to observe, that I am not
now quoting these expressions as pledges given by that right ho
nourable gentleman that he would support a proposal for an union
between fee two countries; but I am adducing them to prove,
that fee situation ofthe two countries after fee final adjustment
of 1782 was such, in his opinion, as led to the danger of a se
paration between feem. I am not now arguing, feat a legislative
union is the only measure which can possibly be adopted; but I
am contending, that the adjustment of 1782 was never consi
dered as final, by those who now state it to be so, as an argu
ment against the consideration of the present measure. How
the honourable gentleman on the other side of fee house will
evade this authority I do not know — an authority too, which, I
must observe, he seems much more iuclined to treat with re
spect, than he was formerly.
But, Sir, it does not stop there. What is the evil to which he
alludes ? Commercial jealousies between two countries acting
upon the laws of two independent legislatures, and fee danger
of feose legislatures acting in opposition to each other. How can
this evil be remedied ? By two means only ; either by some com
pact entered into by the legislatures of the two countries respect
ing the mode of forming their commercial regulations, or else
by blending the two legislatures together ; these are the only two .
means. I defy fee wit of man to point out a third. The mode-
of cOmpact was proposed in 1785; but unfortunately, in spite of
feat right honourable gentleman's eloquence and authority, who
then stated the importance of guarding against the evilr it so
happened that doctrines, derived chiefly from this side of the
water, succeeded in convincing the parliament of Ireland, feat
it would be inconsistent with their independence, to enter into any
compact whatever. We have then the authority of that right.

1T99.J PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 373
honourable gentleman to whom I have so often alluded, feat fee
unsettled state in which the matter was left, would give " poli
tical union many shocks, and lead to a separation of connec
tion." The experiment of a mutual compact has been tried with
out success ; the arrangement of that sort, which was proposed
in 1785, in order to obviate fee inconveniences stated by the
right honourable gentleman, was then attacked with the same
success against Ids authority, as another and more effectual re
medy has recently experienced under his auspices. Tbe result
then is, you must remain in the state which that right honour
able gentleman has described, with the seeds of separation in
the system now established, and with the connection, on which
the mutual prosperity of both countries depends, in danger of
being hourly dissolved, or you must again recur to fee proposal
of a compact similar to feat rejected in 1785, or you must re
sort to the best and most effectual remedy — a legislative union.
. I bave dwelt longer, perhaps, upon this part of the subject
than was absolutely necessary, because I believe there is scarcely
any man who has ever asked himself, whether, there is, a splid,
permanent system of connection between fee two countries, who
could, upon reflection, answer fee question in fee affirmative.
But besides the authorities of fee persons who made fee arrange
ment in 1782, and of those who have since treated of it, to shew/
that it was not deemed to be final and complete, I have further
the test of experience to shew how imperfect it was, and how in
adequate in practice to fee great object of cementing the con
nection, and placing it beyond the danger of being dissolved. In
the single instance which has occurred, (and feat a melancholy
one which all of us deplored,) in which we could feel fee effects
of two jarring legislatures, we did feel it. On that occasion, it
might have produced the most signal calamities, had we not been
rescued frpm its danger by an event, to which no man can now
;look back without feeling the utmost joy and exultation; — feel
ings, which subsequent circumstances have served to heighten
and confirm. Every gentleman will know, feat I, must allude to
fee regency. With two independent legislatures, acting upon
2 b 3

74. MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31
different principles, it was accident alone that preserved the
identity of fee executive power, which is the bond and security
ofthe connection: and even then fee executive authority, though
vested in one person, would bave been held by two different
tenures, by one tenure in England, by another in Ireland, had
not the interposition of Providence prevented a circumstance
pregnant with fee most imminent perils, and which might have
operated to a separation of the two kingdoms.
After seeing the recorded opinion of parliament, of feose wh®
made fee arrangement of 17S2, and after fee decided testimony
of experience on the subject, within fee short period of sixteerj
years, perhaps it is hardly necessary to appeal to farther proofs
of its inadequacy, or to desire gentlemen to look forward to pos
sible cases, which I could easily put, and which will naturally
suggest themselves to the minds of all, who chuse to turn theitf
attention to tbe subject.
But when we consider the distinct powers possessed by the two
legislatures on all the great questions of peace and war, of air
liances and confederacies, (for they each have in principle a
right to discuss them and decide upon them, though one of them
has hitherto been wisely restrained by discretion from fee exer
cise of that right) have we npt seen circumstance? to induce us
to think it possible, at least, that on some of these important
questions the opinions and decisions of fee two parliaments might
have been at variance ? Are we talking of an' indissoluble con
nection, when we see it ibus perpetually liable to be endan
gered ? Can we really think that the interests of fee empire, or
of its different branches, rest upon a safe and solid basis at pre
sent ? I am anxious to discuss this point closely with any man,
either here, or in Ii eland. Will it be said, that the parliament
ofthe latter country is bound by our decision on fee question of
peace or war? And if not so bound, will any man, looking at
human nature as it is, contend, that there is a sufficient certainty
feat the decision on that important subject will always be the
same in both countries? I should be glad to receive a distinct
answer to this question from the honourable gentleman, who h&g.

HTM.] " PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 375
declared himself to be as warm a friend to the connection be
tween the two countries, as 1 am.
Suppose, for instance, that fee present war, which the parlia
ment of Great Britain considers to be just and necessary, had
been voted by the Irish parliament to be unjust, unnecessary,
extravagant, and hostile to fee principles of humanity and free
dom. Would feat parliament have been bound by this country ?
If not, what security have we, at a moment the most important
to our common interest and common salvation, that the two
kiagdoms should have but one friend and one foe ? I repeat it ;
I am eager to bear what can be said in justification of a basis so
imperfect and unsound, and liable to be shaken by so many acci
dents. I have already observed that in the peculiar circum
stances of the present moment, we may find stronger reasons to
prove fee necessity of correcting the system of connection be
tween this country and Ireland, of supplying its imperfections,
and strengthening its weakness, than are to be found at any
former period.
Having thus stated, Sir, and I think sufficiently proved, that fee
settlement of 1 782, in every point of view in which it can be con
sidered, is. imperfect, and inadequate to the object of maintaining
the connection between fee two kingdoms, I proceed next to the
circumstances which peculiarly call upon us at the present mo
ment to remedy feat imperfection.
This country is at this time engaged in the most important, and
momentous conflict that ever occurred in fee history ofthe world ;
a conflict in which Great Britain is distinguished for having made
fee only manly and successful stand against fee common enemies
of civilized society. We see the point in which that enemy thinks
us the most assailable. Are we not then bound in policy and pru
dence to strengthen that vulnerable point, involved as we are in
a contest of liberty against despotism — of property against plun
der and rapine — of religion and order against impiety and anar
chy ? There was a time when this would have been termed de
clamation ; but, unfortunately, long and bitter experience has
taught us to feel that it is only fee feeble and imp.erfest repre-
2 B 4

376 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,
sentation of those calamities (fee result of French principles and
French arms), which are every day attested by the wounds of a
bleeding world.
Is feere a man who does not admit fee importance of a mea
sure which, at such a crisis, may augment the strength of the em
pire, and thereby ensure its safety ? Would not feat benefit to
Ireland be of itself so solid, so inestimable, that, in comparison
wife it, all commercial interests, and tbe preservation of local
habits and manners, would be trifling, even if feey were endan
gered by fee present, measure which feey undoubtedly are not ?
The people of Ireland are proud, I believe, of being associated
wife us in fee great contest in which we are engaged, and must
feel the advantage of augmenting the general force of the empire.
That the present measure is calculated to produce feat effect, is
a proposition which, I think, cannot be disputed. There is not
in any court of Europe a statesman so ill informed as not to
know, feat fee general power of fee empire would be increased
to a very great extent indeed, by such a consolidation of fee
strength of fee two kingdoms. In the course of fee century every
writer of any information on fee subject has held the same lan
guage, and in fee general strength of the empire both kingdoms
are more concerned fean in any particular interests which may be
long to either. If we were to ask the ministers of our allies, what
measure feey thought fee most. likely to augment fee power of fee
British empire, and consequently increase feat strength by which
feey were now protected — if we were to ask the agent of our ene
mies, what measure would be fee most likely to render their de
signs abortive, the answer would be the same in both cases, viz.
fee firm "consolidation of every part of the empire.
There is another consideration well worth attention, RecoJ*
lect what ate the peculiar means by which we have been enabled
to resist the unequalled and eccentric efforts of France, without
any diminution, nay, with an increase, of our general prospe
rity — what, but the great commercial resources which we pos
sess ? A measure, then, which must communicate to such a
mighty- limb of the empire as Ireland all the commercial ad
vantages which Great Britain possesses, which will open the

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 377
markets ofthe one country to fee ofeer, which will give them
both fee common use of feeir capital, must, by diffusing a large
portion of wealth into Ireland, considerably increase fee resources,
and consequently the strength of fee whole empire.
But it is not merely in feis general view, that I think the
question ought to be considered. We ought to look tojit with a
view peculiarly to the permanent interest and security of Ire
land. When feat country was threatened with fee double dan
ger of hostile attacks by enemies without, and of treason within,
from what quarter did she derive the means of her deliverance ?
— from the naval force of Great Britain — from fee voluntary
exertions of her military of every description, not called for by
law— and from her pecuniary resources, added to tbe loyalty and
energy of the inhabitants of Ireland itself; of which it is impos
sible to speak with too much praise, and which shews how well
feey deserve to be called the brethren of Britons. Their own
courage might, perhaps, have ultimately succeeded in repelling
fee dangers by which feey were threatened, Nbut it would have
been after a long contest, and after having waded through seas
of blopd. Are we sure that fee same ready and effectual assist*
ance which we have happily afforded, on the present occasion,
will be always equally within our power ? Great Britain has al
ways felt a common interest in fee safety of Ireland ; but feat
common interest was never so obvious and urgent as when fee
common enemy made her attack upon Great Britain, through
fee medium of Ireland, and when feeir attack upon Ireland went
to deprive her of her connection with Great Britain, and to sub
stitute in its stead the new government of fee French republic.
When that danger threatened Ireland, fee purse of G reat Bri
tain was as open for the wants of Ireland, as for the necessities
, of England.
I do not, Sir, state these circumstances, as upbraiding Ireland
for fee benefits we have conferred ; far from it : but I state them
with pleasure, as shewing fee friendship and good-will with which
feis country has acted towards her. But if struggles of this sort
may and must return again ; if fee worst dangers are feose which
are yet to come, dangers which may be greater from being more

378 MR. PITT'S [ Jan. 31,
disguised ; if feose situations may arise when the same means of
- relief are not in our power, what is fee remedy feat reason and
policy point out ? It is to identify feem with us; it is to make
feem a part of the same community, by giving feem a full share of
feose accumulated blessings which are diffused throughout Great
Britain ;lit is, in a word, by giving feem a full participation ofthe
wealth, fee power, and the stability ofthe British empire. If then
this measure comes recommended not only by the obvious defects
of the system which now exists, but that it has also the pre-emi
nent recommendation of increasing fee general power of the em
pire, and of guarding against future danger from fee common
enemy, we are next to consider it as to its effects upon the inter
nal condition, of Ireland.
1 know perfectly well, that, as long as Ireland is separated from
Great Britain, any attempt on our part to provide measures
which we might think salutary, as respecting questions of con
tending sects or parties, of the claimed rights of fee catholics, or
ofthe precautions necessary for the security of the protestants— ¦
I know that all these, though they may have been brought for
ward by the very persons who are fee advocates of trie final ad
justment in 1782, were, in fact, attacks upon the independence
of the Irish parliament, and attempts to usurp the right of de
ciding on points which can only be brought within our province
by compact. Until the kingdoms are united, any attempt tp
make regulations here for the internal state of Ireland must cer
tainly be a violation of her independence. But feeling as I do
for their interests and feeir welfare, I cannot be inattentive to
the events that are passing before me ; I must therefore repeat,
that whoever looks at the circumstances to which I have alluded ;
whoever considers that the enemy have shewn by their con1
duct, that they considered Ireland as the weakest and most vul
nerable part of fee empire ; whoever reflects upon those dreadful
and inexcusable cruelties instigated by feelnemies of both ppytn-
tries, and upon those lamentable severities by which the exertions
for the defence of Ireland were unhappily, but unavoidably, at
tended, and the necessity of which is itself one great aggravation
E

1199.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 37g
ofthe crimes and treasons which led to them, must feel feat, as
it now stands composed, in fee hostile division of its sects, in the
animosities existing between ancient settlers and original inhabit
ants, in fee ignorance and want of civilization, which marks that
country more than almost any other country in Europe, in the
unfortunate prevalence of jacobin principles, arising from these
causes, and augmenting their malignity, and which have pro
duced feat distressed state which we now deplore; — everyone, I
say, who reflects upon all these circumstances, must agree with
me in thinking, that there is no cure but in fee formation of a ge
neral imperial legislature, free alike from terror and from resent
ment, removed from the danger and agitation, uninfluenced by
the prejudices, and uninflamed by fee passions of feat distracted
country. I know that it is impossible, if we wish to consider this subject
properly, to consider it in any ofeer point of view than as it af
fects fee empire in general. I know that fee interests of the two
countries must be taken together, and feat a man cannot speak as
a true Englishman, unless he speaks as a true Irishman, nor as a
true Irishman, unless he speaks as a true Englishman ; but if it
were possible to separate them, and I could consider myself as
addressing you, not as interested for the empire at large, but for
Ireland alone, I should say, that it would be indispensably ne
cessary, for fee sake of that country, to compose its present dis
tractions by the adoption of another system- — I should say, that
the establishment of an imperial legislature was the only means
of healing its wounds, and of restoring it to tranquillity. I must
here take the liberty of alluding to some topics which were touch
ed upon dnring the discussion of the former night.
Among fee great and known defects of Ireland, one of the
most prominent features is, its want of industry and a capital ;
how are those wants to be supplied, but by blending more closely
with Ireland fee industry and the capital of feis country ? But,
above all, in the great leading distinction between the people of
Ireland, (I mean feeir religious distinctions,) what is their situ
ation ? — The protestant feels feat the claims of fee catholics;

3S0 MR. PITT'S, [ Jan. 31,
threaten the existence of the protestant ascendancy ; while, on
the other hand, the great body of catholics feel the establishment
of the national church, and feeir exclusion from the exercise
of certain rights and privileges, a grievance. Between the two,
it becomes a matter of difficulty in fee minds of many persons,
whether it would be better to listen only to the fears of fee
former, or to grant fee claims ofthe latter.
I am well aware that the subject of religious distinction is a
dangerous and delicate topic, especially when applied to a coun
try such as Ireland, the situation of which is different in this re
spect from that of every ofeer. Where the established religion
of the state is fee same as the general religion of fee empire, and
where fee property of the country is in the hands of a compara
tively small number of persons professing that established reli
gion, while the religion of a great majority of the people is differ
ent, it is not easy to say, on general principles, what system of
church establishment in such a country would he free from diffi
culty and inconvenience. By many I know it will be contended,
feat the religion professed by fee majority of fee people would,
at least, be'entitled to an equality of privileges. I have heard
such 'an argument urged in this house ; but feose who apply It
without qualification to fee case of Ireland, forget surely the
principles on which English interest and English connection has
been established in that country, and on which its present legis
lature is formed. No man can say, feat, in fee present state of
things, and while Ireland remains a separate kingdom, full con
cessions could be made to fee catholics, without endangering
the state, and shaking the constitution of Ireland to its centre.
On the ofeer hand, without anticipating fee discussion, or fee
propriety of agitating the question, or saying how soon or how
late it may be fit to discuss it, two propositions are indisputable :
first, when tbe conduct ofthe catholics shall be such as to make
it safe for fee government to admit feem to the participation of
fee privileges granted to those of the established religion, and
when the temper of the times shall be favourable to such a mea
sure— when these events take place, it is obvious feat such a

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 88l
question may be agitated in an united, imperial parliament, with
much greater safety, than it could be in a separate legislature. In
fee second place, I think it certain that, even for whatever pe
riod it may be thought necessary, after the union, to withhold
from fee catholics the enjoyment of feose advantages, many of
fee objections which at present arise out of feeir situation would
be removed, if the protestant legislature were no longer separate
and local, but general and imperial ; and fee catholics them*
selves would at once feel a mitigation'of fee most goading and
irritating of their present causes of complaint.
How far, in addition to this great and leading consideration, it
may also be wise and practicable to accompany the measure by
some mode of relieving the lower orders from the pressure of
tithes, which, in many instances, operate at present as a great
practical evil, or to make, under proper regulations, and without
breaking in on the security of fee present protestant establish
ment, an effectual and adequate provision for the catholic cler
gy, it is not now necessary to discuss. It is sufficient to say, feat
feese and all other subordinate points connected wife fee same
subject, are more likely to be permanently and satisfactorily
settled by an united legislature, than by any local arrange*
ments. On these grounds I contend, that with a view to provid
ing an effectual remedy for the distractions which have unhap
pily prevailed in Ireland, with a view of removing those causes
which have endangered, and still endanger its security, the mea
sure which I am now proposing promises to be more effectual than
any other which can be devised ; and on feese grounds alone, if
there existed no other, I should feel it my duty to submit it to
fee house. '
But, Sir, though what I have thus stated relates most immedi
ately to the great object of healing the dissentions, and providing
for fee internal tranquillity of Ireland, there are also other ob
jects which, though comparatively with this of inferior import
ance, are yet in themselves highly material, and in a secondary
riew well worthy of attention.
I have ' heard, it asked, when I pressed fee measure, what are

382 Mr. Pitts [j*n. st,
the positive advantages that Ireland is to derive from it ? To this
very question I presume fee considerations, which I have al
ready urged, afford a sufficient answer. But, in fact, fee question
itself is to be considered in another view; and it will be found to
bear some resemblance to a question which has been repeatedly
"put, by some of fee gentlemen opposite to me, during the last
six years. What are fee advantages which Great Britain has
gained by the present war with France?
To this, fee brilliant successes of the British arms by sea and
land, our unexampled naval victories over all our enemies, the
solid acquisition of valuable territory, the general increase of our
power, the progressive extension of our commerce, and a series of
events "more glorious fean any that ever adorned fee page of our
history, afford at once an ample and a satisfactory answer. But
there is another general answer which we have uniformly given,
and which would alone be sufficient : it is, that we did not enter
into this war for any purpose of ambition ; our object was not to
acquire, but to preserve; and in this sense, what we have gained
by the war is, in one word, all that we should have lost with
out it ; it is the preservation of our constitution, our independ
ence, our honour, our existence as a nation.
In the same manner I might answer the question wife respect to'
Ireland, I might enumerate the general advantages which. Ire
land would derive from the effects ofthe arrangement- to which I
have already referred — the protection which she will secure to
herself in the hour of danger : the most effectual means of in
creasing her commerce and improving her agriculture, the com
mand of English capital, the infusion of English manners and
English industry, necessarily tending to ameliorate her condition*
to accelerate the progress of internal civilization, and to termi
nate those feuds and dissentions which now distract the country,
and which she does not possess, within herself, the power either
to control or to extinguish. She would see fee avenue to ho
nours, to distinctions,, and exalted situations' in the general seat
of empire, opened to all those whose abilities and talents enable?
feem to indulge an honourable and laudable ambition.-

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 383
But, independent of all these advantages, I might also answer,
that the question is not what Ireland is to gain, but what she is
to preserve ; not merely how she may best improve her situation,
but how she is to avert a pressing and immediate danger. In this
view, what she gains is the preservation of all those blessings aris
ing from the British Constitution, and which are inseparable from
her connections with Great Britain ;— those blessings, of which
it has long been the aim of France, in conjunction with domestic
traitors, to deprive her, and on their ruins to establish (with all
its attendant miseries and horrors) a jacobin republic, founded
on French influence, and existing only in subserviency to France.
Such, Sir, would be the answer, if we direct our attention only
to the question of general advantage. And here I should be
inclined to stop ; but since it has also been more particularly
asked, what are the advantages which she is to gain, in point of
commerce and manufactures, I am desirous of applying my an
swer more immediately and distinctly to that part of the subject ;
and as I know feat the statement will carry more conviction with
it to those who make fee inquiry, if given in tbe words of fee
right honourable gentleman, to whom, and to whose opinions, I
have had more than one occasion to .advert in the course of this
night, I will read you an extract from his recorded sentiments on
the subject, in fee year 1785, on this same memorable occasion
of the commercial propositions. Speaking of a solid and unalter
able compact between the two countries, speaking expressly of
the peculiar importance of insuring fee continuance of those com
mercial benefits, which she at feat time :held only at fee discre
tion of this country, he says " The exportation of Irish pro
ducts to England amounts to two millions and a half annually ;
aud the exportation of British products to Ireland amounts to
but one million."
He then proceeds to reason upon the advantage which Ireland
would derive, under such circumstances, from guarding against
mutual prohibitions; and he accompanies the statement, which I
have just read, with feis observation 
" If, indeed, fee adjustment were to take away the benefit

3S4 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,
from Ireland, it'wotild be a good cause for rejecting it ; but, as
it for ever confirms all fee -advantages we derived from our linen
trade, and binds England from making any law that can be inju
rious to it, surely gentlemen who regard that trade, and whose
fortunes and rents depend on its prosperity, will not entertain a mo
ment's doubt about embracing the offer."
Such wais the reasoning of fee Irish chancellor of the exche
quer, which I consider to have been perfectly just. With re
ference to his late opinions, I do not think I can more forcibly
reply to a person who signs his name to propositions which de
clare, feat fee ruin ofthe linen trade of Ireland is likely to be
fee consequence of an union, fean by opposing to him his own
opinion. I shall be able to strengthen fee former opinion of that
gentleman, by stating, that the progress that has been made in
commercial advantages to Ireland since 1785, has been such as
to render his argument still more applicable. What is the nature
of that commerce, explained by fee same person in so concise
and forcible a manner, feat I am happy to use his own state
ment ? He does not confine himself to fee gross amount, but
gives the articles in detail 
" Britain," he says, " imports annually from us two million
five hundred thousand pounds of our products, all, or very nearly
all, duty free, and covenants never to lay a duty on them. We
import about a million of hers, and raise a revenue on. almost
every article of it, and reserve the power of continuing feat re
venue. She exports to us salt for our fisheries and provisions ;
hops, which we cannot grow ; coals, which we cannot raise; tin,
which we have not; and bark, which we cannot get elsewhere:
and all these without reserving any duty."
I will not tire the patience of fee house by reading farther ex
tracts ; but the right honourable gentleman's whole speech, in
like manner, points out fee advantages of the commercial pro
positions (at that time Under consideration) as a ground-work of
a compact between the two countries, in 1785, on commercial
subjects. But how stands the case now ? The trade is at this
time infinitely more advantageous to Ireland. It will be proved,
7

1799,] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 385
from fee documents which I hold in my hand, as far as relates
to the mere interchange of manufactures, feat the manufactures
exported to Ireland from Great Britain, in 1797, very little
exceeded a million sterling (fee articles of produce amount to
nearly the same sum) while Great Britain; On the other hand;
imported from Ireland to fee amount of near three millions in
the manufactured articles of linen and linen yarn, and between
two and three millions in provisions and cattle, besides corn and
other articles of produce.
In addition to these articles, there are ofeer circumstances of
advantage to Ireland. Articles which are essential to her trade
and to her subsistence, or serve as raw materials for her manu
factures, are sent from hence free of duty; It is expressly stated,
on fee same authority^ that all that we take back from Ireland was
liable to a duty in that country on feeir exports : the increasing
produce of fee chief article of their manufacture, and four-fifths
of her whole export trade, are to be ascribed, not to feat Inde-
pendent Legislature, but to the liberality of the British parliament.
It is by the free admission of linens for our market, and the
bounties granted by the British parliament on its re-export, that
the linen trade has been brought to fee height at which we now
see it. To the parliament of this country, then* it is now ow*
ing, that a market has been opened for her linen to fee amount
offeree millions. By fee bouhty we give to Iirtelandv we afford
her a double market for feat artitele; and (what is Still riiore
striking and important) we have prevented a competition against
her, arising from fee superior cheapness of fee linen manufac
tures of the continent, by Subjecting their importation to a duty
of thirty per cent. Nothing would more ctearly shtew what would
be the danger to Ireland from the competition ib all its principal
> branches of tbe linen trade, fean the simple fact, that we even
now import foreign linens, under this heavy duty, to an amount
equal to a seventh part of all that Ireland is able to send us, with
the preference feat has been stated. By feis arrangemeht alone,
we must, therefore, be considered; either as foregoing between
qeverj and eight hundred thousand pounds per annum in reve-
Votv in. 2 c

886 • MR. PITT'S [JAnvSI;
nue* which we should Collect if we chose to levy fee same duty
on all, linens, Irish as well as foreign; or, on the other hand, as
sacrificing, perhaps, at least a million sterling in .fee price paid
for feose articles, by the subjects of this country, which might
be saved, if we allowed the importation of all linen, foreign as-
well as Irish, equally free from duty.
The present measure is, however, in its effects, calculated
not merely for a confirmation of the advantages on which the
person, to whom I have alluded, has insisted. It is obvious-
that a fuller and more perfect connection of the two countries,
from whatever cause it may arise, must-produce a greater feci*
lity and freedom of commercial intercourse, and ultimately tend
to the advantage of .both. The benefits to be derived to either
country, from, such an arrangement, must indeed, in a great
measure, be-gradual; but feey. are jjot .on-that. account (the less'
certain, . a*id they qannot be stated in more forcible language
than in that used in the speech to which 1 have referred- 
" Gentlemen undervalue the.ir'eduction of British duties on
our manufactures. I agree with them it may not operate soon,
but we are to look forward to a final settlement,, and it is im
possible but feat, in time, with as good climate, equal natural
powers, cheaper food, and fewer taxes, we must be able to sell
to them, a When commercial jealousy shall be banished by final
settlement, and' trade take its 'natural and , steady course, the
kingdoms will cease to look torivalship, each will make that fa-''
brick which it can, dp, cheapest, and buy from tbe ofeer what it
cannot make so advantageously. Labour will-be then truly em
ployed to profit, nqtrdiverted^by. bounties, jealousies,, or fegis*'
lative interference, from its natural and beneficial course. • This
system will, attain; its .real-object, consolidating fee strengthof
the remaining parts; offee, empire, by encouraging fee communi
cations of their marrket afoong .themselves, with preference to
every part against, all strangers!" ...
I-am, at feast, therefore, secure from the design of appearing
to deliver any partial or commercial opinion of my own,, when I-
fetis state, on the authority of a person fee best, informed, .and'

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 387
Who then judged dispassionately; both the infinite importance
to Ireland of securing permanently the great coinmerciabadvan-
tages which she now holds at the discretion of Great Britain, and
fee additional benefit which she would derive from any settle
ment which opened to her gradually a still more free and corriplete
commercial intercourse wjth this country. And while I state thus
strongly fee commercial advantages to the sister kingdom, I
have no alarm lest I should excite any sentiment of jealpusy
here. I know that the inhabitants of Great Britain. wish well to
the prosperity of Ireland ; feat, if the kingdoms are really and
solidly united; they feel that to increase the commercial wealth
of one country is not to diminish that of the other, but to in
crease tbe strength and power of both. But to justify feat sen
timent, we must be satisfied that the wealth we are pouring in
to fee lap of Ireland is not every day liable to be snatched from
us, and thrown into the scale of the enemy. If, therefore, Ire
land is to continue, as I trust it will for ever, an essential part
•ofthe integral strength ofthe British empire; if her strength is
to be permanently ours, and our strength to be hers, neither I
nor any English minister; can ever be deterred; by the fear of
creating jealousy in the hearts of Englishmen, from stating the
advantages of a closer connection, or from giving any assistance
to fee commercial prosperity of feat kingdom.
If ever, indeed, I should have fee misfortune to witness the
melancholy moment when such principles must be^abandontedj
when all- hope of seeing Ireland permanently and securely con*
fiected with feis country shall be at an end, 1 shall, at leasts
have fee consolation of knowing; that it will not be the want of
temper or forbearance, of conciliation, of kindness, or of full
explanation on our part, which will have produced an event so
fatal to Ireland, and so dangerous to Great Britain. If ever
the over-bearing power of prejudice and passion shall produce
that fatal consequence, it will too late be perceived and acknow
ledged, that all the great commercial advantages which Ireland
at present enjoys, and which are continually increasing, are to
be ascribed to fee liberal conduct, fee fostering care of fee
2 c 2

388 MR. PITTS' tJAN. iij,
British empire, extended to fee sister kingdom as to a part of
ourselves, and not (as has been fallaciously and vainly pretend-
i ed) to any thing which has been done, or can be done, by the in
dependent power of her own separate legislature.
I have thus, Sir, endeavoured to state to you the reasons,
why I think feis measure advisable; why I wish it to be pro
posed to fee parliament of Ireland, with temper and fairness ;
and why it appears to me. entitled, at least, to a calm and dis
passionate discussion in feat kingdom. I am aware,- however, that
objections have been urged against'the measure; some of which
are undoubtedly plausible, and have been but too successful in
their influence on fee Irish parliament. Of these objections
I shall now proceed, as concisely as possible, to take some no
tice. The first is, what I heard alluded to by the honourable gen
tleman"* opposite to me, when his Majesty's message was brought
down; namely — That fee parliament of Ireland is incompetent
to entertain and discuss the question, or rather, to act upon the
measure proposed, without having previously obtained the con
sent of the people of Ireland, their constituents. But, Sir, I
am led to suppose, from what fee honourable gentleman after
wards stated, that he made this objection, rather by way of de
precating the discussion of fee question, than as entertaining
the smallest doubt upon it himself. If, however, the honour
able gentleman, or any ofeer gentleman on fee ofeer side of the
house, should -seriously entertain a doubt on the subject, I sball
be ready to discuss it with him distinctly, either this night or at
any future opportunity. For fee present, I will assume feat no
man can deny the competency of fee parliament of Ireland (re
presenting as it does, in the language of -our constitution,
" lawfully, fully, and freely, all the estates of the people of the
realm,") to make laws to bind feat people, unless he is disposed
to distinguish that parliament from the. parliament of Great
Britain, and, while he maintains fee independence of the Irish
legislature, yet denies to it the lawful and essential powers »f>
* Mr. Sheridan.

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 389'
parliament. No man, who maintains the parliament of Ireland
to be co-equal wife our own, can deny its competency on this
question, unless he means to go the length of denying, at
the same moment, fee whole of the authority of the parliament:
of Great Britain — to shake every principle of legislation — and to
maintain, feat all fee acts passed, and every thing done by par
liament, or sanctioned by its authority, however sacred, how
ever beneficial, is neither more nor less than an act of usurpa
tion. He must not only deny the validity of the union between
Scotland and England, but he must deny fee authority of every
ene of the proceedings of fee united legislature since the union ;
nay, Sir, he must go still farther, and deny the authority under
which we now sit and deliberate here as a house of parliament :
Of course, he must deny the validity of the adjustment of 1782,
and call in question every measure which' he has himself been
the most forward to have enforced, This point, Sir, is of so
much importance, that I think I ought not to suffer fee oppor
tunity to pass, without illustrating more fully what I mean. If
this principle of tbe incompetency of parliament to the decision
of fee measure be admitted, or if it be contended, feat parlia
ment has no legitimate authority to discuss and decide upon it,
you will be driven to fee necessity of recognising a principle, the
most dangerous that ever was adopted in any civilized state. — I
mean fee principle, that parliament cannot adopt any measure
new in itsnature, and of great importance, without appealing tp
the constituent and delegating authority for directions. If feat
doctrine be true, look to what an extent it will carry you. If
such an argument could be set up and maintained, you acted
without any legitimate authority when you created the represent
tation Of fee principality of Wales, or of either of the counties
palatine of England. Every law that parliament ever, made,
without feat appeal, either as to its own frame and constitution,
as to the qualification of the electors or the elected, as to the
great and fundamental point of fee succession to tbe crown,
was a breach of treaty and an act of usurpation.
If we turn to Ireland itself, what, do gentlemen think ofthe
2c3

3t)0 MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,
power pf that parliament, which, without any fresh delegation
from its protestant constituents, associates to itself all the catho
lic electors, and thus destroys a fundamental distinction on which
it was formed ? God forbid feat I should object to or blame
any of these measures ! I am only. stating the extent to, which
the principle, that parliament has no authority to decide upon
the present measure, will lead ; and, if it be admitted in one
case, it must be admitted 'in all,. Will any man say, that (al
though a protestant parliament in Ireland, chosen exclusively
by protestant constituents,, has, by its own inherent power, and
without consulting those constituents, admitted and compre
hended the catholics who were till then, in fact, a sepa
rate community) that parliament cannot associate itself wife
another protestant community, represented by a protestant par
liament, having one interest with itself, and similar in its laws,
its constitution, and its established religion ? What must be
said by thpse who have at any time been friends to any plan of
parliamentary reform, and particularly such as have been most
recently brought forward, either in Great Britain or Ireland ?.
Whatever may have been thought of the propriety of the mea
sure, I never heard any doubt of the competency of parliament
to consider and discuss it. Yet I defy any man to maintain the
principle of those plans, without contending that, as a member
of parliament, he possesses a right to concur in disfranchising
those who sent him to parliament, and to select others, by
whom he vyas not elected, in feeir stead. I am sure that no
sufficient distinction, in point of principle, can be successfully
maintained for a single moment; nor should I deem it necessary
to dwell on this point; in tbe manner I do, were I not convinced
that it is connected in part with all those false and dangerous
notions on the subject of government which have lately become.'
too prevalent in the world. It may, in fact, be traced to that
gross perversion of the principles of all political society, which
rests on fee supposition that there exists continually in every
government a sovereignty in abeyance (as it were) on the part o.
the people, ready to be called forth on every occasion, of ra-

¦1709.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. ' 391
feer, on every pretence, when it -may suit the purposes of the
party or faction who are the advocates of feis doctrine to sup
pose an occasion for its exertion. It is in .feese false principles
that are .contained the seeds of all the misery, desolation, and
ruin, which in fee present day have spread themselves over so
large a proportion of fee habitable globe.
These principles, Sir, are, at length, so well known and un
derstood in feeir practical effects, that they can no longer hope
for one enlightened or intelligent advocate, when they appear in
feeir true colours. Yet, with all the horror we all feel, in common
with fee. rest of the world, at fee effect of them, with all fee
confirmed and increasing love and veneration which we feel to
wards fee constitution of our country, founded as it is, both
in theory and experience, on principles directly the reverse,
there are too many among us, who, while feey abhor and reject
such opinions, when presented to them in their naked deformity,
suffer them in a more disguised shape to be gradually infused
into feeir minds, and insensibly to influence and bias their sen*
timents and arguments on the greatest and most important dis
cussions. This concealed poison is now more to be dreaded than
any open attempt to support such principles by argument, or tp
enforce them by arms. No society, whatever be its particular
form, can long subsist, if this principle is once admitted-. In
every government, there must reside sprriewbere a supreme, ab
solute, and, unlimited authority. This is equally true of every
lawful monarchy— of every aristocracy — of every pure democracy
(if indeed, such .a. form of .gpvernment ever has existed, or ever
can exist).— and of tbose roiled constitutions formed and com
pounded, from, tbe others, which we are justly inclinedjo prefer
to any of feem. { In all feese governments, indeed alike, that
power, may by possibility be abased ; but whether the abuse is.
such as to justify and call for'fe^inter.feirence of the people collec
tively, .or mare prQperiy,,speak.ingl, of any portion of it, must
always be an extreme case, and ,a question of. the greatest and.
mq&t perilgu.s responsibility, iiiot in jaw. only, .but in conscience.
and in duty, to all those who either act upon it themselves, or;-
2 c 4-

392 MR. PITT'S V**. SI,
persuade others to do so. But no provision for such a case ever
has been or can be made beforehand; it forms no chapter in any
known code of laws, it can find no place iu ariy system of human
jurisprudence. But, above all, if such a principle can make no
part of any established constitution, not even of those where fee
government is so framed as to be most liable to fee abuse of its
powers, it will be preposterous indeed to suppose that it can be
admitted in ope where feose powers are so distributed and ba
lanced as to furnish the best security against fee probability of
such an abuse. Shall that principle be sanctioned as a necessary
part of the best government, which cannot be admitted to, exist
as an established check even upon the worst ! Pregnant as it is
with danger and confusion, shall it be received and authorized
sip proportion as eyery reason, which can ever make it necessary
to recur to it, is not likely to exist? Yet, Sir, I know not how
it is, that, in proportion as we are less likely to have occasion
f >r so desperate a remedy, in proportion as a government is so
framed as to provide within itself the best guard and control on
the exercise of every branch of authority, to furpish the means
of preventing or correcting every abuse of power, and to secure,
by its own natural operation', a due attention to fee interest and
feelings of every part of the community, in that very proportion
persons have been found perverse enough tp imagine, that such
a constitution admits and n cognises, as a part of it, that which
is inconsistent wife fee nature of any government, and, above all,
inapplicable to our own.
I have said more, Sir, upon this subject fean I should have
thought necessary, if I had not felt feat feis false and dangerous
mockery of fee s/ivereignty of t^t people is in truth one ofthe chief
elements of jacobinism, one cf tbe favourite impostures to mis
lead fee understanding, and to flatter and inflame fee passions of
fee mass of mankind, who have not the opportunity of examining
and exposing it, and feat, as such, on every occasion, and in
every shape in which it appears, it ought to be combated and
resisted by every friend to civil order, and to the peace and hap
piness of mankind.

1739.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 393
Sir, fee next and not fee least prevalent objection, is one
which is contained in words which are an appeal to a natural and
laudable, but what I must call an erroneous and mistaken, sense
of national pride. It is an appeal to fee generous and noble
passions of a nation easily inflamed under any supposed attack
upou its honour, I mean the attempt to represent fee question
of an union by compact between the parliaments ofthe two king
doms as a question involving fee independence of Ireland. — It
has been said, feat no compensation could be.made to any cpun*
try for fee surrender of its national independence. Sir, on this,
as well as on eyery part of the question, I am desirous gentlemen
should come closely to the point, that they should sift it to
fee bottom, and ascertain upon what grounds and principles their
opinion really rests. Do they mean to maintain that in any hu
miliating, in any degrading sense ofthe word which can be aoted
upon practically as a rule, and which can lead to any useful
conclusion, feat at any time when the government of any two
separate countries unite in forming one more extensive empire,
the individuals who composed either of the former narrow so
cieties are afterwards less members of an independent, country, or
to any valuable and useful purpose less possessed of political
freedom or civil happiness, than feey were before ? It must be
obvious to every gentleman who will look at the subject, in
Jraciug fee histories of all fee countries, the most proud of thei-p
present existing independence, of all the nations in Europe, there
is not one feat could exist in the state in which it now stands, if
feat principle had been.acted upon by our forefathers; and Europe
must have remained to this hour in a state of ignorance and bar
barism, from the perpetual warfare of independent and petty
States. In fee instance of our own country, it would be a su
perfluous waste of time to enumerate the steps by which all its
parts were formed into one kingdom; but will any man in general
assert, that in ajl fee different unions which have formed the
principal states. of. Europe, feeir inhabitants have become less
free, feat they have bad less of which to be proud, less scope for
their own exertions, fean feey had in their former situation ? If

SO* MR. PITT'S ' [ J an. 3 r,
feis doctrine is to be generally -maintained, what becomes ofthe
situation at this hour of any one county of England, or of any
one county of Ireland, now united under the independent parlia
ment of that kingdom ? If it be pushed to its full extent, it is
obviously incompatible with all civil society. ' As the former
principle of the sovereignty of fee people strikes at tbe founda
tion of all governments, so this is equally hostile to all political
confederacy, and mankind must be driven back to what is called
fee state of nature.
But while I combat this general and abstract principle, which
would operate as an objection to every union between separate
states, on the ground of the sacrifice of independence, do I mean
to contend that there is in no case just ground for such a senti
ment? Far from it: it may become, on many occasions, the first
duty of a free and generous people. If there exists a country
which contains within itself the means of military protection, the
iiaval force necessary for its defence, which- furnishes, objects of
industry sufficient for fee subsistence of its inhabitants, and pecu
niary resources adequate to maintaining, with dignity, the rank
which it has attained among tbe nations of the world; if, above
all, it enjoys the blessings of internal content and tranquillity,
and possesses a distinct constitution of its own, the defects of
which, if any, it is within itself capable of correcting ; and if feat
constitution be equal, if not superior, to that of any other in fee
world, or (which is nearly the same thing) if those who live un
der it believe it to be so, and fondly Cherish that opinion, I can
indeed well understand feat such a country must be jealous of
any measure, which, even by its own consent, under the autho
rity of its own lawful government, is tp associate it as a part of
a larger and more extensive empire.
But, Sir, if, on the other hand, it should happen feat there
be a country which, against the greatest 'of all dangers feat
threaten its peace and security, has not adequate means of pro*
tecting itself without the aid of another nation ; if that other be a
neighbouring and kindred nation, speaking fee same language,
whose laws, whose customs and habits are the same in principle,
7

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 393
but carried to a greater degree of perfection, with a more exten-?
sive commerce, and more abundant means of acquiring and dife
fusing national wealth; the stability of whose government — the
excellence of whose constitution, is more fean ever the admira
tion and envy of Europe, and of which fee very country of which
we are speaking can only boast an inadequate and imperfect re
semblance; — under such circumstances, I would ask, what con
duct would be prescribed by every rational principle of dignity,
of honour, or of interest? I would ask, whether this is not a
faithful description of the circumstances which ought to dispose
Ireland to an union ? — Whether Great Britain is not precisely the
nation with which, on feese principles, a country, situated as
Ireland is, would desire to unite? Does an union, under such
circumstances, by free consent, and on just and equal terms,
deserve to be branded as a proposal for subjecting Ireland to a
foreign yoke ? Is it not rather the free and voluntary association
of two great countries, which join, for their common benefit, in
one empire, where each will retain its proportional weight ^nd
importance, under fee security of equal laws, reciprocal affec
tion, and inseparable interests, and which want nothing but that
indissoluble connection to render both invincible ?
Non ego. nee Teucris Italos parere jubebo
Nee nova regnapeto; paribus se legibusambtg
Invicta gentes aterna infedera mittant.
Sir, I have nearly stated all feat is necessary for me to trouble
the house with ; feere are, however, one or two ofeer objections
which I wish not entirely to pass over : one of them is, a genera^
notion that an union wife Great Britain must necessarily increase
one of fee great evils of Ireland, by producing depopulation in
many parts of the couatry, and by increasing greatly the number
of absentees. I do not mean to deny feat this effect would, to a
limited extent, take place during a part ofthe year; but I think
it will not be difficult for nie to prove, that this circumstance will
be more fean counterbalanced by the operation of the system in
other respects.
If it be true feat this measure has an inevitable tendency to ad-

3ot> MR. PITTS [Jan. 31,
mit the introduction of that British capital which is most likely to
give life to all the operations of commerce, and to all fee im
provements of agriculture ; if it be feat, which above all pther
considerations is most likely to give security, quiet, and internal
repose to Ireland; if it is likely to remove the chief bar to the
internal advancement of wealth and of civilization, by a more
intimate intercourse with England; if it is more likely to commu
nicate from hence those habits which distinguish this country,
and which, by a continued gradation, unite fee highest and the
lowest orders of the community without a chasm in any part of
fee system ; if it is not only likely to invite (as I have already
said) English capital to set commerce in motion, but to offer it
fee use of new markets, to open fresh resources of wealth and
industry, can wealth, can industry, can civilization increase
among the whole bulk of the people without much more than
counterbalancing the partial effect of tbe removal of fee few in
dividuals who, for a small part of the year, would follow fee seat
of legislation? If, notwithstanding the absence of parliament
from Dublin, it would still remain the centre of education and
of the internal commerce of a country increasing in improve
ment; if it would still remain the seat of legal discussion, which
must always increase with an increase of property and occupa-
tion> will it be supposed, with a view even to fee interests of
feose whose partial interests have been most successfully ap
pealed to; with a view either to the respectable body of fee bar,
to fee merchant, or shopkeeper, of Dublin (if it were possible to
suppose that a transaction of this sort ought to be referred to
that single criterion) feat they would not find their proportionate
share of advantage in the general advantage of the state ? Let it
be remembered also, that if fee transfer of the seat of legislature
may call from Ireland to England fee members of the united
parliament, yet, after the union, property, influence and con
sideration in Ireland will lead, as much as in Great Britain; to
all the objects of imperial ambition ; and there must, conse
quently, exist a new incitement to persons to acquire property in
feat country, and to those who possess it, to reside there, and to
- 3

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 397
cultivate the good opinion of those with whom they live, and to
extend and improve their influence and connections.
But, Sir, I need not dwell longer on argument, however it may
satisfy my own mind, because we can on this question refer to
experience. I see every gentleman anticipates that I allude to
Scotland. What has been the result of the union there ? An
union, give me leave to say, as much opposed, and-by much the
same arguments, prejudices, and misconceptions, as are urged
at this moment; creating too the same alarms, and provoking
the same outrages, as have lately taken place in Dublin. Look
at the metropolis of Scotland: the population of Edinburgh has
been more fean doubled since the union, and a new city added
to the old. But we may be told, that Edinburgh has engrossed
all the commerce of that country, and has those advantages
which Dublin cannot expect. Yet while Edinburgh, deprived
of its parliament, but retaining, as Dublin would retain, its court's
ofjustice; continuing, as Dublin would continue, the resort of
those whose circumstances would not permit them to visit a dis
tant metropolis ; continuing, as Dublin would continue, fee seat
of national education, while Edinburgh has baffled all the pre*
dictions of that period, what has been the situation of Glasgow ?
The population of Glasgow, since the union, has increased in the
proportion of between five and six to one : look at its progress in
manufactures; look at its general advantages, and tell me what
groundthere is, judging by experience in aid of theory, for feose
gloomy apprehensions which have been so industriously ex
cited. There remains, Sir, another general line of argument, which I
have already anticipated, and I hope answered, feat fee commer
cial privileges now enjoyed by Ireland, and to which it owes so
much of its prosperity, would be less secure than at present. 1
have given an answer to that already, by stating, that feey are
falsely imputed to the independence of the Irish parliament, for
that they are, in fact, owing to tbe-exercise of the voluntary dis
cretion of tbe British parliament, unbound by compact, prompted
only by its natural disposition to consider tbe interests of Ireland

39S MR. PITT'S rjAsr: 31j
fee same as its own ; and if feat has been done while Ireland is
bnly united to us in the imperfect and precarious manner in
which it is, while it has a separate parliament, notwithstanding
the commercial jealousies of our own manufacturers; if under
these circumstances we have done so, if we have done so wife no
ofeer connection than that which now subsists, and while Ireland
has no share in our representation, what fresh ground can
there be for apprehension; when she will have her proportionate
weight in the legislature, and will be united with us as closely as
Lancashire or Yorkshire; Or any other county in Great Britain ?
Sir, I have seen it under the same authority to which I am
sorry so often to advert, that the linen trade would be injured,
and feat feere will be ho security for its retaining its present ad
vantages. I have already stated to you (and wife feat very au
thority in my favour) feat those advantages are at present preca
rious, and that their security can only arise from compact with
Great Britain. Such a compact this measure would establish in
fee most solemn manner ; but besides this; Sir; fee natural po
licy of this country, not merely its experienced liberality; but fee
identity of interests after an union, would offer a security worth a
thousand compacts.
Sir, fee only other general topic of objection is feat, upon
Which great pains have been taken to raise an alarm in Ireland —
fee idea feat fee main principle of the measure was to subject
Ireland to a load of debt and an increase of taxes, and to expose
her to fee consequences of all our alleged difficulties and sup
posed necessities.
Sir, I hope the zeal, fee spirit, and fee liberal and enlarged po
licy of this country, has given ample proof feat it is not from a
pecuniary motive feat we seek an union. If it is not desirable on
fee grounds 1 have stated, it cannot be recommended for the mere
purpose of taxation; but to quiet any jealousy on this subject,
here again let us look to Scotland : Is there any instance where,
with 45 members on her part and 513 on ours, feat part ofthe
united kingdom has paid more than its proportion to the general
burdens ? Is it-then, Sir, any ground of apprehension that we.

] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. aggf
are likely to tax Ireland more heavily when she beoomes asso^
ciated with ourselves ? To tax in its due propprfipji the whokt
of the empire, to the utter exclusion of thejdea of the predomi-
nance of one pai't of society dvelf ' ariother, is the great charac
teristic of British finance, "as equality of laws is of fee' British con
stitution. But, Sir, in addition to this, if we come to fee details offeispro^
position, it is in our power to fix, for any' number of years which1
shall be feought fit, the proportion by which the contribution of
Ireland to the expenses of the State, shall be regulated ; that these'
proportions shall not be such as would make a contribution
greater than fee necessary amount of its own present necessary
Expenses as a separate kingdom ; and even after feat limited pe
riod, tbe proportion of the whole contribution from time to
fime might be made to depend on fee comparative produce, m;
each kingdom, of such general taxes as might be thought to
afford the best criterion of feeir respective wealth. Or, what I
should hope would be found practicable, the system of internal
taxation in each country might gradually be so equalized and assi
milated, on fee leading articles, as to make all rules of specific
proportion unnecessary, andfto secure, that Ireland shall neveis
be taxed but in proportion. as we tax ourselves.
The application of these principles, however, will form matter of
future discussion — I mention them only as strongly shewing, fronv
the misrepresentation which has taken place on this part of the'
subject, how incumbent it is upon the house to receive, these pro
positions, and to adopt, after^due^deliberation such resolutions as-
may record to Ireland the terms upon which we are ready to meet-
her: and, in fee mean time, let us wait, not without impatience^
but without dissatisfaction, frjrfeat moment, when the effect of
reason and discussion may reconcile the minds of meji iu that
kingdom to a measure whjch, I am sure will be found as necessary
for their peace and happiness, tas it will be conducive to fee. ge
neral security ^njj.adyautage ofthe British empire. ^. '
Sir, it. remains f^r me, only to lay feese psgjutioo^befcre, fee.

400

MR. PITT'S [Jan. 31,

house, wishing feat the more detailed discussion of feem may be
reserved to a future day.
Resolved, «- Frist, That in order to promote and secure the essen
tial interests of Great Britain and Ireland, and to consolidate -the
strength, power, and resources of the British empire, it will be ad
visable to concur in such measures as may best tend to unite
the (wo kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland into one king*
dom, in such manner, and on such terms and conditions, as may
be established by acts of fee respective parliaments of his Majesty's
said kingdoms.
" Second, That it appears to this committee that it would be'
fit to propose as the first article to serve as a basis of the said union,
that the said kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland shall, upon a
day to be agreed upon, be united into one kingdom, by the name
of the United Kingdom qf Great Britain and Ireland.
" Third, That for the same purpose it appears also to this
committee, that it would be fit to propose that the succession
to the monarchy and the imperial crown of the said united
kingdoms shall continue limited and settled, in the same manner
as the imperial crown of the said kingdoms of Great Britain
and Ireland now stands limited and settled, according to the ex
isting laws, and to the terms of the union between England and
Scotland. " Fourth, That for the same purpose it appears also to this com
mittee, that it would be fit to propose that the said united kingdom
be represented in one and the same parliament, to be stiled the
Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland,
and that such a number of lords spiritual and temporal, and such" a
number of members of the house of commons as shall be here
after agreed upon by acts of the respective parliaments as aforesaid,
shall sit and vote in the said parliament on the part of Ireland, and
shall be summoned, chosen, arid returned, in such manner as shall
be fixed by an act of the parliament of Ireland previous to the said
union ; and that every member hereafter to sit and vote in the said
parliament «f the united kingdom shall, until the said parliament

1199.1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 401
shall otherwise provide, take and subscribe the same oaths, and
make the same declaration, as are by law required to be taken, sub
scribed, and made, by the members of fee parliaments of Great
Britain and Ireland.
" Fifth, That for the same purpose It appears also to this com
mittee, that it would be fit to propose that the churches of England
and Ireland, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government
thereof, shall be preserved as now by law established.
" Sixth, That for the same purpose it appears also to this com
mittee, that it would be fit to propose that his Majesty's subjects in
Ireland shall at all times hereafter be entitled to the same privileges,
and be on the same footing in respect of trade and navigation.; in all
ports and places belonging to Great Britain, and in all cases wife
respect to which treaties shall be made by his Majesty, his heirs, or
succcessors, with any foreign power, as his Majesty's subjects in
Great Britain ; that no duty shall'be imposed on the import or fix-
port between Great Britain and Ireland of any articles now duty
free; and that on other articles there shall be establishedj for a time
to be limited, such a moderate rate of equal duties as shall, previous
to the union, be agreed upon and approved by the respective parlia
ments, subject, after the expiration of such limited time, to be di-
ntinished equally with respect to both kingdoms, but in no case to
be increased ; that all articles which may at any time hereafter be
imported into Great Britain from foreign parts, shall be importable
through either kingdom into the other, subject to the like duties and
regulations as if the same were imported directly from foreign parts ;
that where any articles, the growth, produce, or manufacture of ei
ther kingdom, are subject to any internal duty in one kingdom, such
countervailing duties (over and above any duties on import to be
fixed as aforesaid) shall be imposed, as shall be necessary to prevent
any inequality in that respect ; and that all other matters of trade
and commerce other than the foregoing, and than such others as
may before the union be specially agreed upon for the due encou
ragement of the agriculture and manufactures of the respective
kingdoms, shall remain to be regulated from time to time by the
United parliament.
" Seventh, That for the like purpose it would be fit to propose
vet. in. 2 °

4Q2

MR. PITT'S [Jan. St,

that the charge arising from the payment of the interest or- sinking
fund for the reduction of the principle of the debt incurred in either,
kingdom before the union, shall continue to be separately defrayed
by Great Britain and Ireland respectively. That for a number of
years to be limited, the future ordinary expenses of the United
kingdom, in peace or war, shall be defrayed by Great Britain
and Ireland jointly, according to such proportions as shall be es
tablished by the respective parliaments previous to the union ; and
that after lhe expiration of the time to be so limited, the pro-'
portions shall not be liable to be varied, except according to such
rates and principles as shall be in like manner agreed upon previous
to the union.
" Eighth, That for fee like purpose it would be fit to propose
that all laws in force at the time of the union, and that al,l the courts
of civil or ecclesiastical jurisdiction within the respective kingdoms,
shall remain as now by law established within the same, subject
only to such alterations or regulations from, time to time as cir
cumstances may appear to the parliament of the united kingdom
to require. " That the foregoing resolutions be laid before his Majesty,;
with an humble address, assuring his Majesty that, we have pro
ceeded with the utmost attention to the consideration of tlie im
portant objects recomn.ended to us in his Majesty's gracious
message :
" That we entertain a firm persuasion that a complete and entire
union between Great Britain and Ireland, founded on equal and
liberal principles, on the similarity of laws, constitution, and go
vernment, and on a sense of mutual interests and affections, by pro
moting the security, wealth, and commerce, ofthe respective king
doms, airJ by allaying the distractions which have unhappily pre
vailed in Ireland, musi afford fresh means of opposing at all times
an effectual resistance to the destructive projects of our foreign and
domestic enemies, and must tend to confirm and augment, the sta
bility, power, and resources of the empire.
" Impressed with these considerations, we feel it our duty hum
bly to lay before his Majesty such propositions as appear to us besfc

]?99] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 409
calculated to form the basis of such a settlement, leaving it to his
Majesty's wisdom, at such time and in such manner as his Majety,
in his parental solicitude fot the happiness of his people, shall judge
fit, to communicate these propositions to his parliament of Ireland,
with whom we shall be at all times ready to concur in all such mea
sures as may be found most conducive to fee accomplishment of
this great and salutary work. And we trUst that, after full and ma
ture consideration, such a settlement may be framed and establish
ed, by the deliberate consent of the parliaments of both kingdoms,
as may be conformable to the sentiments, wishes, and real inte
rests of his Majesty's faithful subjects of Great Britain and Ireland,
and may unite them inseparably in the full enjoyment of the bles
sings of our free and invaluable constitution, in the stipport of
the honour and dignity of his Majesty's crown, ,and in the preser
vation and advancement ofthe welfare and prosperity ofthe whole
British empire,"
The question was carried for the Speaker's leaving tye cliair»
Ayes  >. 140
Noes  15
4nd the House then went into a committee upon the resolution*.

April 19; 1799;
Ihe House having resolved itself into a Committee of the whole Houses
fc take into consideration the report of the secret committee relative to sedi
tious societies,
Mb. Pitt rose, and spoke in snbstance as follows ;
It is hot my intention, Sir, on the present occasion, to detain
the committee by enlarging upon fee circumstances stated in fee
report, which is now fee Subject of consideration; Those cir
cumstances detailed in fee report itself die so important ifi the.r
nature, and so plainly and forcibly stated, feat to dwell upon
feem would be to weaken rather than to add to the impression they
are calculated to make. I sball content myself, therefore, with
laying before you tbe Outline of fee measure, which it is my in-

2d2

404 Mil. PITT'S [Afril 19,
tention to propose as the ground of the resolutions of the com
mittee, on which, if they should meet its concurrence, will fol
low a motion, that, tlie chairman be instructed to move for leave
to bring in bills to enact their provisions. Should these propo
sitions be adopted, another opportunity will occur for fee discus
sion of their details.. This much, however, 1 think I may ven
ture to say, feat feere cannot be two opinions as to the necessity.
of continuing and enforcing those wise and salutary measures of
precaution to which we are indebted for our safety, and by which
we bave .been enabled to repress the efforts of the most desperate,
wicked, and cruel conspiracy against our liberties, our constitu
tion, and our peace, that is to be found in thebistory of this
country. From the report of tile committee, we perceive feat
among other things the utmost advantage has resulted from that
great measure of precaution, the act empowering his Majesty to
secure and detain persons suspected of conspiring against his person
and government— a- measure'wbich has been attended with the most
beneficial effects at moments themostcritical, in breaking up.feede.
signs ofthe conspirers, when feey approached nearly to fee period
of their execution. Previous even tothe report, in which its ne
cessity is so satisfactorily developed, fee facts notorious to fee
world would bave been sufficient to justify an application to par
liament for prolonging fee duration of fee act suspending the
habeas corpus. „ fallowing up at the same time the suggestions
in the report, fee first motion I shall have fee .honour to propose
will be to continue that measure, at fee same time, adding to • it
a provision to render it more effectual, a provision founded as
well upon its general propriety, as upon the particular circum
stances which the report has explained. What I allude to is, to
adopt a regulation empowering his Majesty to transfer persons
arrested under feis act to any place within fee kingdom winch
may be deemed most eligible. I do not mean to enlarge upon
the policy of such a provision. I «hall only observe, that it will
be notorious to rthe . committee, from the report under considera
tion, and from another report lately presented to the house, that

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 405
one of fee principal features of that conspiracy which has been
prosecuted in feis country, but more particularly in the sister
kingdom, where it actually led to so much calamity and blood
shed, has been that the designs of the conspirators have conti
nued to be conducted under the direction of persons in custody
on charges of being its authors, or guilty upon their own confes-
. sion. How far the case here has been similar to feat I have
stated, it is needless at present to enquire. It will hardly be de
nied, that circumstances are such as to require feat all doubts
should be removed respecting the power of his Majesty to trans
fer persons in this situation to the most safe and proper place of
confinement, and likewise to enable government to detain in cus
tody here persons arrested in Ireland in the circumstances I have
described. This provision arises out of the message received
"from his Majesty, respecting the persons brought from fee sister
kingdom, to be detained in confinement in Great Britain.'
I feel likewise that it will not be sufficient to continue and en
force the laws already adopted for our security, if we did not
adopt some precaution against the particular character of the
mischief against which we are called upon to guard. I allude to
feat point so clearly established by the most powerful body of
evidence before us, the existence of secret societies totally un
known in the history of ibis or any other country. Impressed
with fee observation in tbe report of the committee, feat in the
great struggle we maintain against jacobinism it is necessary to
watch the symptoms of the malady, and to adapt the remedy to
the appearance it assumes, we must feel ourselves bound to ac
commodate our precautions to fee evil which we have discovered.
It will at the same time be recorded to the honour of the British
parliament, feat while it did not neglect the salutary precautions
which circumstances imperiously dictated, it did not pass beyond
the bounds of that necessity; that, equally firm and temperate,
it has recollected what was to be yielded to safety, and what was
due to fee constitution, that it might with just discernment and
jjioderation accommodate the precaution to tbe danger.
Considering the inveterate spirit and the invincible persever-
2d 3

406 MR. PITT'S [April 19,
ance of fee enemy, with whom we have to contend, I do not;
think that any one measure could be warranted as sufficient to
carry fee constitution safe through that mighty struggle we have
to maintain ; to that haven of security and peace, which after a
period of exertion and of perseverance, more or less protracted,
we have a confident hope of attaining. For this arduous contest,
however, be it shorter or be it longer, we must be prepared ; we
must be determined firmly to abide by the cause we have em»
braced, vigorously to continue the efforts we have exerted, to
follow up wisely and vigilantly the provisions which we have hi
therto employed, unless we are contented to yield to the superior
vigilance, energy and perseverance of an implacable enemy, the,
pre-eminent blessings which we enjoy.
It is the duty of parliament, then, carefully to watch the
symptoms of the malady by which we are assailed. The point
which to-day seems most urgently to challenge our attention, is
that of the secret societies I have mentioned, all of which possess
a common distinguishing character. Wherever they have exist
ed, they have been animated by the same spirit, dedicated to the
same objects, and known by the same effects. They have spread
themselves in Great Britain, in Ireland, throughout Europe. In
fee sister kingdom , we have seen them not merely threatening the
mischiefs with which they are fraught, but at one moment scat
tering their baleful consequences, and openly attempting the
overthrow of all established government, Even here, notwith
standing ibe prevalent loyalty of the gie;it mass of the people,
and the powerful obstacle wife which feey have had to contend,
we have seen that invincible perseverance in a bad cause by
which the spiiit of jacobinism is peculiarly characterized, while in
other parts of Europe, the existence of these secret societies, has
uniformly been the forerunner, or the attendant of the progress
of French principles and the ravage of Frerich arms.
These societies, too, are in feeir nature totally repugnant
to tin- ge.nius of this constitution, and strange to the habits of
this nation. They are clearly of foreign growth ; and, while we
are bound to discourage them, we can employ with fee more sa*
3

1790.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES- 40/
tisfacticn the strong measures which are necessary to their sup
pression, because we must be sensible that we do not trench
upon fee principles or the spirit of feat liberty we inherit from
our ancestors; — feat we do not impair those privileges which
give sanction to the great right of petition to all recognised classes
of men, and wife none of which those new descriptions of persons
can at all be confounded. Among fee societies of this nature are
The Corresponding Society, The United English, The United Scots,
The United Britons, and The United Irish. These societies are now
so clearly proved to be such an abuse of the privileges of feis con
stitution — so entirely inconsistent with all government, that ill
must agree that they ought to be suppressed. In doing feis feere is
one consideration which we ought to keep in view : we must be
aware that, from the very outset, the leaders.of these baneful soci
eties distinctly anticipated in their designs all those horrors and ca
lamities which have sin.ee been developed in their progress. Many
individuals, however, there must have been who, not understand
ing the purposes for which they were to co-operate, or not fore
seeing tbe evils to which feey would lead, were lightly and in
considerately drawn in to become members of such societies.
Adopting this distinction, then, it is intended that fee measures
for suppressing feese bodies shall only be prospective, that they
Sliall not aim at punishment, but prevention- We shall do our
duty in setting a mark on the house where the pestilential conta
gion prevails, and then let those who enter perish. In fee first in*
stance it shall be fee mild and forgiving policy of the measures
proposed, to separate the misguided from the criminal. At fee
same time I have no hesitation in saying, feat after experiencing
this signal exercise of mercy and forbearance, those who shall
continue members of feose societies, contract the guilt of adher
ing to designs of deliberate treason. As, however, fee great
object is to detect and to punish those who may be guilty of this
offence, in its nature so deep and atrocious, I flatter myself that
a summary conviction, followed by a summary punishment,
would answer the desired effect. My intention, therefore, is to
propose, that if any person after a day to be fixed shall continue
2 D4

408 MR. PITT'S [April 10,
¦e member of such societies, feey shall, upon summary conviction
before a magistrate, be liable to a certain fine, to be summarily
inflicted. Looking at the description of persons who in general
compose feese associations, I hope feat this regulation will be
attended with. the most salutary effect. Persuaded that even this
simple mode of proceeding, and feis very gentle punishment will
be effectual, 1 am happy to-propose, as a remedy for the'evil, a
measure which so little trenches upon those bulwarks of liberty
which it must be our wish to preserve. At the same time, while
in a political view it may attain the object desired, the punish*
ment it provides in a moral view, is by no means commensurate
to fee guilt which it affects.
That there are degrees of guilt among fee members of these
societies is obvious ; it is necessary to keep this distinction before
us. To be merely one of tbe herd may not be so criminal as to
take an active part in promoting the illegal purposes for which
fee illegal association is formed. I should propose therefore to
give an option, either to proceed by summary conviction and fine,
or by way of indictment in any court of record, leaving it, to the
discretion of the court to punish the offenders by fine or inif
prisonment, or, in cases of greater aggravation, by transporta
tion. It will be necessary likewise to provide, that the law sball not
be confined in its operation to the societies already known by
fee names enumerated, but to societies of fee same kind, and
directed to the same objects, by whatever varying appellations
they may be distinguished. Of feis kind are feose where feere
exists an unlawful and wicked engagement of mutual fidelity and
secrecy, such as we have seen so much prevail. It shall apply to
those where the same illegal bond prevails, which unhappily has
been found to have so great an influence on the weak and igno
rant minds of fee deluded people ; where is practised feat myste-.
rious secrecy in the appointment of the members and the com
mittees, the president, secretaries, and fee whole management of
¦ .'.-..I i °
fee affairs of the society. AU feose associations, where such
practices exjsf;, shall be declared unlawful. I need not hesitate

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 409
to propose to accompany this provision wife one which is neces
sary to its effect. This is to subject the masters of feose houses
where such meetings assemble, whether public or private, to a
fine. Persons who have been members, and withdrawing them*
selves before a given day, to be exempted from the operation of
the law. These regulations, in themselves so perfectly free from
the imputation of severity, will, I hope, be sufficient to secure the
objects we have in view. Such will be fee first branch of the
second measure which I feel it my duty to propose.
The next part of fee bill would be intended to remedy an evil
of inferior importance, one which in a certain degree must fall
under fee daily observation of every man who hears me, and
which has formed apart ofthe plan so incessantly pursued, of
perverting the understanding, depraving the minds, and corrupt
ing the morals of the people of feis country: — I allude to the
Debating Societies, which, conducted, as feey have been, and di- .
rected to fee questions feey discuss, tend to undermine all the
principles of morality in the minds of those by whom they are
frequented. Some time ago it will be recollected feat persons
publicly delivered lectures of the most seditious tendency, and
when these were prohibited by the laws so properly introduced
for fee remedy of such abuses, they assumed fee title of histori
cal lectures, and, with little variation, were directed to the same
objects as before. Discussions of this nature in fee hands- by
which they were taken up, and with fee aifdience to whom they
were addressed, were employed to attack all religion, govern
ment, and society, and though in fee outset they may not so di
rectly lead to the consequences which it was fee object of the
conspirations of feis country to attain, they ultimately tend to
prepare the minds of men for those horrors and calamities, which
are the infallible consequences of those principles against which
it is our duty to provide. To prevent such dangerous abuses, it
will be a part of fee proposed measure to extend fee provisions
against seditious lectures and political discussions, to all places
where money is taken at the door, making this the criterion, and
putting feem upon fee footing of disorderly houses, unless where a

410

MR. PITT'S [Apro. 19,

licence has been previously taken out, and where they are sub
ject to the inspection of tbe magistrate. By feis regulation J
conceive no innocent pursuit or amusement will be obstructed,
and fee public will be protected from an evil, of a danger far be
yond the importance of feose from whom it proceeds.
The provisions which I shall have the honour to propose, will
likewise be directed against another part of that plan, pursued
wife no less industry to poison fee minds of the ignorant and un
wary. It has been fee proud and distinguishing principle of fee
law of England, feat the liberty of the press has been cherished
as fee most invaluable bulwark of liberty. It certainly is one
from which, when not abused, fee greatest advantages might be
derived, but when abused and perverted, it has led to the great
est mischiefs. It has, therefore, been fee object of fee law of
this country, without imposing any previous restraint to secure a
subsequent responsibility in fee author and publisher, if they
should be guilty of private libels or public treason. Those publi
cations of a higher order, under the laws of tbe country, and the
prevalent 'spirit of loyalty in fee people, are tolerably sure of
being subjected to punishment for their libels, at least those of a
more flagrant nature. Happily those libels, formerly so preva
lent, are, owing to these causes, more restrained. Unfortunate
ly, however, we have seen the liberty ofthe press abused in away
most calculated to pervert and mislead the lower orders. In
stead of being employed to communicate knowledge and instruc
tion, it has been perverted to give false and imperfect representa
tions of facts, and inadequate or improper discussions of subjects
in nowise adapted to those to whom they were addressed, and fit
ted to produce tbe greatest mischief to those who are the immedi
ate objects, aud ultimately to the public itself. Hence has been
prosecuted to such an extent the plan of disseminating hand
bills, tending to poison the minds ofthe people, fo deprave feeir
morals, to pervert their loyalty, and to undermine their religion.
Against this species of mischief some new provisions are neces
sary, the object of which will be always to have responsible the
author or publisher. This regulation is strictly in tbe spirit o|

|W9.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 411
fee constitution. If in its application it is new, it is because the
evil is likewise new, while fee remedy is so unexceptionable in
its nature, that it must be approved by all who value public mo
rals and public tranquillity.
A provision, fee object of which is so legitimate, cannot be
felt as a restraint by those who are engaged in the regular trade
connected with the press. What is required, is to have the name
of a publisher affiled to every hand-bill, as in every other spe
cies of publication. To prevent feeir being issued from private
presses, it will be necessary to obtain some knowledge of feose
who may have -uch implements in their possession. To obtain
this, it is proposed to have a register kept at those places where
types are fabricated, (which are not very numerous) to discover
who acquire them, to make those who now have presses register
them, and make it necessary for every publication circulated to
bear the name of the publisher affixed to it. This regulation, I
am sure, will not injure the cause of science, literature and im
provement, or even interfere -with any innocent amusement,
while it will secure the public against the circulation of anony
mous treason, sedition, or impiety, by which, in fee quarters
most exposed, the pillars of morality, religion, and government
are attacked.
Such is the third object of the measure which I shall propose.
The report of the committee will remain for further considera
tion, and it will be for the house to. consider whether the nature
ofthe dangers to which we are exposed, demands any fresh pre
cautions. The circumstances of the times require a vigilance
always ready to accommodate our measures of security to the
degree of malignity which danger may assume, and to vary their '
remedies with the changing character of the evil by which we
are threatened. Fortunate shall we be if the wise, moderate,
and salutary provisions already adopted or proposed, shall prove
adequate to the inveteracy of the disease, the virulence of which
neither dete.ctioi) nor punishment, nor a sense of the blessings
we enjoy, nor of the horrible calamities wife which fee princi
ples of jacobinism have desolated Europe) has beftO able t&

412 MR. PITTS [June 7,
abate. In spite of every discouragement and every obstacle,
treason has pursued its purposes. Happily, this country has
been shielded from the calamities of French principles and
French treasons, by fee well tempered vigour of its government,
and the prevalent active loyalty of its people. Yet, against all
feis opposition conspiracy has struggled. Vigilance and energy
are still requisite to secure fee blessings so firmly maintained.
Upon every occasion it has been fee honourable character of
parliament to have exerted a vigour limited to the necessity of
the case. It has kept up to the urgency of the danger, and
never overstepped the bounds of moderation. Preserving the
liberties of the country sacred and unimpaired, it has displayed
an energy proportioned to the magnitude of the crisis; and,
guided by fee same principles, I trust it will continue to pursue
feat course which has secured the constitution, the liberties,
the prosperity, and the happiness of this country. 1 shall now
move, Sir, " That it is fee opinion of feis committee, feat a
bill be brought in to renew and amend the bill passed in fee
feirty-eigbth of his present Majesty, for securing aiid detaining
persons accused of treason and sedition ; and that a bill be
brought in to suppress seditious societies and seditious prac
tices." The resolutions were passed witliout a division.

June 7, 1799.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, his Majes
ty's message, which had been referred to the committee the preceding day,
acquainting the House with the engagements entered into between his Ma
jesty and the Emperor of Russia, was read.
Mr. Prrr then rose, and in a short speech moved " that the sum of 825,000/.
be granted to his Majesty, to enable his Majesty to fulfil his engagements with
Russia in such a manner as may be best adapted to the exigencies of. the case.''
Mr. Tierney opposed the motion on the ground of its object being unde
fined. He called upon ministers to declare what was the common cause, they
talked of, and what was meant by the deliverance 'of Europe ; asserting, that
he would not vote any sums for » purpose which he did not understand, and
in aid of a power whose object he d^d not know, which might be appropriated

(799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. . 413
to her own views exclusively, and to the injury instead of the welfare of
England. Mr. Pit*.— — -I wish, Sir, to offer such an explanation on
some ofthe topics dwelt upon by the honourable gentleman* who
just sat down, as will, I thiuk, satisfy fee committee and fee
honourable gentleman. The nature of the engagement to which,
fee message would pledge the house is simply, feat, 1st, for the
purpose of setting the Russian army in motion, we shall advance
to that country 225,000/.. part of which by instalments, to ac
company fee subsidy to be paid when the army is in actual ser
vice. And I believe no one, who has been the least attentiva
£> the progress of affairs in the world, who can appreciate worth,
and admire superior zeal and activity, will doubt fee sincerity
of the sovereign of Russia, or make a question of his integrity
iu any compact. The 2d head of distribution is 75,000/. per
month, to be ipaid at the expiration of every succeeding month
of service; and, lastly, a subsidy of 27,500/. to be paid after
the war, on the conclusion of a peace by common consent.
Now, I think it strange that the honourable gentleman should "
eharge us with want of prudence, while it cannot be unknown to
him that the principal subsidies are not to be paid until the ser
vice has been performed, and feat in one remarkable instance
the present subsidy differs from every other, in as much as a
part of it is not to be paid until after the conclusion of a peace
by common consent. I think gentlemen would act more con-
listently if feey would openly give their opposition on the prin
ciple feat they cannot support the war under any circumstances
ef the country and of Europe, than in this equivocal and cold
manner to embarrass our deliberations, and throw obstacles in
the way of .all vigorous co-operation. There is no reason, no
ground to -fear that that magnanimous prince will act with infi
delity in a cause in which he is so sincerely engaged, and which
be, knows to be fee cause of all good, government, of religion
smd humanity, .against a monstrous medley of tyranny, injustice,
vanity, irreligion, ignorance, and folly. Of such an ally there
* >Ir- Tierney.

414 MR. PITTS [ We 7,
cap he no reason to be jealous; and least of all have fee honour
able gentlemen opposite me grounds of jealousy, considering- fee
nature and circumstances of our engagements wife feat monarch.
As to the sum itself, I think no man can find fault wife it. In fact,
it is comparatively small. We take into our pay 45,000 of the"
troops of Russia, and I believe, if any gentleman will look to all
former subsidies, the result will be, feat never was so large a'
body of men subsidized for so small a sum. This fact cannot be'
considered without feeling feat this magnanimous and powerful
prince has undertaken to supply at a very trifling expense a1
most essential force, and that' for the deliverance of Europe. I
stiH must use feis phrase, notwithstanding the sneers of the ho
nourable gentleman. Does it not promise fee deliverance of
Europe, when we find fee armies of our allies rapidly advancing
in a career of victory at once fee most brilliant and auspicious
feat perhaps ever signalized the exertions of any combination I
\Vill it be regarded with apathy, that that wise and vigorous and
exalted prince has already, by his promptness and decision,
given a turn to fee affairs of the continent f Is the house to be
called upon to refuse succours to our ally, who, by his prowess,
,and fee bravery of. his arms, has attracted so much of the atten
tion and admiration of Europe ?
The honourable gentleman says be wishes for peace, and feat
he approved more of what I said on this subject towards the'
close of my speech, than of fee opening. Now what I said was,
that if by powerfully seconding fee efforts of our allies, we could
only look for peace with any prospect of realizing our hopes?
whatever would enable us to do so promptly and effectually
would be true economy. I must, indeed, be much misunder
stood, if generally it was not perceived that I meant, that whe
feer the period which is to carry us to- peace be shorter or longer,
what we have to look to is not so. much when we make peace,- as
whether we shall derive from it complete and solid security*
and that whatever ofeer nations may do; whether feey shall per^
severe in fee contest, or untimely abandon it, we have to look
to ourselves far the means of defence,, we are to look to the^

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 415
means to secure our constitution, preserve our character, and
maintain our independence, in fee virtue and perseverance of
the people. There is a high-spirited pride,, an elevated loyalty,
a generous warmth of heart, a nobleness of spirit, a hearty,
manly gaiety, which distinguish our nation, in which we are to
look for the best pledges of general safety, and of feat security
against an aggressing usurpation, which other nations in feeir
weakness or in their folly have yet no where found. With re
spect to that which appears so much to embarrass certain gen
tlemen — the deliverance of Europe — I will not say particularly
what it is. Whether it is to be its deliverance from that under
which , it suffers, or feat from which it is in danger ; whefeer
from the infection of false principles, fee corroding cares of a
period of distraction and dismay, or feat dissolution of all go
vernments, and feat death of religion and social order which are
to signalize the triumph of fee French republic, if unfortu
nately for mankind she should, in spite of all opposition, pre
vail in the contest ; — from whichsoever of these Europe is to be
delivered, it will not be difficult to prove, feat what she suffers,
and what is her danger, are fee power and existence of the
French government. If any man says feat fee government is not
a tyranny, he miserably mistakes fee character of feat body. It
is an insupportable and odious tyranny, holding within its grasp
the lives, the characters, and fee fortunes of all who are forced to
own its sway, and only holding these that it may at will measure
out of each the portion, which from time to time it sacrifices to
its avarice, its cruelty, and injustice. The French republic is,
dyked and fenced round with crime, and owes much' of its pre
sent security to its being regarded with a horror which appals
men in feeir approaches to its impious battlements.
The honourable gentleman says, that he does not know whe
ther fee Emperor of Russia understands what we- mean by the
deliverance of Europe. I do not think it proper here to dwell
much at length on feis curious doubt. But whatever may be
the meaning which that august personage attaches to our phrase
" the deliverance of Europe," at least he has shewn -that he

416 MR. PITT'S {JtjneT,
is no stranger to fee condition of the world ; that whatever be
fee specific object of fee contest, he has learnt rightly to consider
the character of the common enemy, and shews by his public
proceedings that he is determined to take measures of more fean
ordinary precaution against fee common disturbers of Europe,
and the common enemy of man. Will fee honourable gentle
man continue in his state of doubt ? Let him look to the conduct
of that prince during what has passed of tbe present campaign.
If in such conduct there be not unfolded some solicitude for the
deliverance of Europe from the tyranny of France, I know not,
Sir, in what we are to look for it. But fee honourable gentle
man seems to think no alliance can long be preserved against
France. I do not deny that unfortunately some of the nations
of Europe have shamefully crouched to that power, and receded
from the common cause, at a moment when it was due to tlieir
own dignity, to what feey owed to that civilized community of
which feey are still a part, to persevere in the struggle, to re
animate their legions with that spirit of just, detestation and
vengeance which such inhumanity and cruelty might so well pro*
voke. I do not say that the powers of Europe have not acted
improperly in many ofeer instances; and Russia in her turn ;
for, during a period of infinite peril to this country, she saw our
danger advance upon us, and four different treaties entered into
of offensive alliance against us, without comment, and without
a single expression of its disapprobation. This was the conduct
of that power in former times. The conduct of his present
Majesty raises quite other emotions, and excites altogether a
different interest. His Majesty, since his accession, has unequi
vocally declared his attachment to Great Britain, and, aban
doning thqse projects of ambition which formed fee occupation ,
of his predecessor, he chose rather to join in the cause of reli
gion and order against France, fean to pursue the plan marked
out for him to humble and destroy a power, which he was taught
to consider as his common enemy He turned aside from all
hostility against the Ottoman Porte, and united bis force to the
power of that prince, the more effectually to check ihe progress

1799.1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 417
pf the common enemy. Will, then, gentlemen continue to re
gard wife suspicion fee conduct of feat prince? Has he not
sufficiently sbewn his devotion to fee cause in which we a/e
engaged, by the kind, and number, and value of his sacri
fices, , ultimately to prevail in the struggle against a tyranny
which, in changing our point of vision, we every where find ac
companied in its desolating progress by degradation, misery, and
nakedness,, to fee unhappy victims of its power — a tyranny
which has magnified and strengthened its powers to do mischief,
in the proportion feat the legitimate and venerable fabrics 6f
Civilized and polished society have declined from the meridian of
their glory, and lost tbe power of doing good — a tyranny which
strides across the ill-fated domain of France, its foot armed with
the scythe of oppression and indiscriminate proscription, that
touches only to blight, and rests only to destroy ; the reproach
and the curse of the infatuated people who still continue to ac
knowledge it. When we consider that it is against this monster
the Emperor of Russia has sent down his legions, shall we say
that he is not entitled to our confidence ?
But what is the constitutional state of the question ? It is
competent, undoubtedly, to any gentleman to make the charac
ter of an ally fee subject of consideration ; but in this case it is
not to fee Emperor of Russia we vote a subsidy, but to his
Majesty. The question, therefore, is, whether his Majesty's go
vernment affix any undue object to the message, whether they
draw any undue inference from the deliverance of Europe. The
honourable gentleman has told us, that bis deliverance of Europe
is fee driving of France within her ancient limits — that he is not
indifferent to fee restoration of the other states of Europe to in
dependence, as connected with the independence of this country ;
but it is assumed by fee honourable gentleman, that we are not
content with wishing to drive France within her ancient limits,
that, on the contrary, we seek to overthrow the government of
France ; and he would make us say, that we never will treat
with it as a republic. Now I neither meant any thing like this,
nor expressed myself so as to lead to such inferences. What-
VOL. III. 2 E

418. MR. PITT'S . [June 7,
ever I may in fee abstract think ofthe kind of government called
a republic, whatever may be its fitness to the nation where it
prevails, feere may be times when it would not be dangerous to
exist in its vicinity. But while the spirit of France remains what
at present it is, its government despotic, vindictive, unjust, with
a temper untamed, a character unchanged, if its power to do
wrong at all remains, feere does not exist any security for feis
country or Europe. In my view of security, every object of am
bition and aggrandizement is abandoned. Our simple object is
security, just security, with a little mixture of indemnification.
These are the legitimate objects of war at all times ; and when
we bave attained that end, we are in a condition to derive from
peace its beneficent advantages; but until then, our duty and
our interest require feat we should persevere unappalled in fee
struggle to which we were provoked. We shall not be satisfied
with a false security. War, with all its evils, is better thana
peace in which there is nothing to be seen but usurpation ane
injustice, dwelling with savage delight on the humble, prostrate
condition of some timid suppliant people. It is not to be dis
sembled, that in the changes and chances to which the fortunes
of individuals, as well as of states, are continually subject, we
may have the misfortune, and great it would be, of seeing our al
lies decline the contest. 1 hope this will not happen. I hope
it is not reserved for us to behold the mortifying spectacle of two
mighty nations abandoning a contest, in which they have sacri
ficed so much, and made such brilliant progress.
In the application of this principle, I have no doubt but the
honourable gentleman admits the security of the country to be
the legitimate object of the contest ; and I must think I am
sufficiently intelligible on this topic. But wishing to be fully
understood, 1 answer the honourable gentleman when he asks,
" Does the right honourable gentleman mean to prosecute fee-
war until the French republic is overthrown ? Is it his determi
nation not to treat with France while it continues a republic ?"
— I answer, I do not confine my views to the territorial limits. of
France ; I contemplate the principles, character, and conduct
5

1799.1 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 419
of France ; I consider what these are ; I see in them the issues
of distraction, of infamy and ruin, to every state in her alliance;
and therefore I say, that until the aspect of that mighty mass Of
iniquity and folly is entirely changed; — until the character of fee
government is totally reversed ; — until, by the common consent
of the general voice of all men, I can with truth tell parliament,
France is no longer terrible for her contempt of the rights of
every other nation — she no longer avows schemes of universal
empire — she has settled into a state whose government can main*-
tain feose relations in their integrity, in which alone civilized
communities are to find their security, and from- which feey are tq
derive their distinction and feeir glory ; — until in the situation of
France we have exhibited to us feose features of a wise, a just,
and a liberal policy, I cannot treat wife her. The time to come
to the discussion of a peace can only be the time when you can
look with confidence to an honourable issue ; to such a peace as
sliall at once restore to Europe her settled and balanced consti
tution of general polity, and to every negotiating power in par
ticular, that weight in the scale of general empire which has ever
been found the best guarantee and pledge of local independence
and general security. Such are my sentiments.. I'am not
afraid to avow them. I commit them to the thinking part of
mankind ; and if feey have not been poisoned by the stream of
French sophistry, aud prejudiced by her falsehood, I am sure
they will approve of the determination I have avowed, for feose
grave and mature reasons pn which I found it. I earnestly pray
that all the powers engaged in the contest may think as I do, and
particularly the Emperor of Russia, which, indeed, I do not
doubt; and therefore I do contend, that with that power it is fit
feat the bouse should enter into the engagement recommended
in his Majesty's message.
Mr. Tierney, in reply,' commented on the last speech ofthe Chancellor of
the Exchequer, and contended that tlie explanation he had given made it
clear, that it was not merely against, the power of France we were struggling,
but against her system ;— not merely to repel her within her ancient limits,
,hutto drive her back from her present to .her ancient opinions ;— in fact, te
' 2.K 2

420

MR. PITT'S [Jwne 7,

prosecute the war until the existing government of Trance should be over
thrown. Upon which grounds he should refuse voting any subsidy for foieign"
service. Mb. Pitt rose once more :
Sir, I cannot agree to fee interpretation fee honourable geH>-
tleman has thought proper to- give to parts of nry speech. He
has supposed that I said, we persevere in the war, and increase
our activity, andiextend our alliances, to impose a government
en another country, and to restore monarchy to Franee. I never
once uttered any such intention. What 'I said was, and tber
house must be in fee recollection of it, feat the France which
now exists, affords no promise of security against aggression and
injustice in peace, and is destitute of all justice and integrity in
war. I observed also, and I think fee 'honourable gentleman
must agree with me when I repeat it, feat the character and
conduct of that government must enter into the calculation of
security to ofeer governments against wrong, and for the due
and. liberal observance of political engagements. The honour
able gentleman says; that he has too mueh good sense, and that
every man must have too much good sense, to suppose that ter
ritorial limits- can, of themselves, be made to constitute fee se
curity of states. He does well to add his sanction to a doctrinfe
that is as old as political society itself. In the civilized and regular
community, states find feeir mutual security against wrong, not--
in territory only, feey have fee guarantee of fleets, of armies,
of acknowledged integrity, and tried good faith ; it is to be
judged of by fee character, the talents, and the virtues of fee-
men who guide the councils of states, who are fee advisers df
princes : but what is it in fee situation ofthe French republic,
Wn which can be founded a con'fidehce whicfr is to be in itself
some proof that she can afford security against wrong ? She; has
territory, shefeas the remains ©fa navy, she, has armies ; but.
what is her character as a moral being ? who is feere to testify
her integrity ? The Swiss nation ! — Who bears testimony to her
good faith ? The states she has plundered, under fee delusive
but captivating masks of deliverers from tyranny 1— What is tbe

1799.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 421
character of her adyisers ? what the aspect of her councils?
They are the authors of all that misery, the fountain-head of all
feose calamities, which, marching by the side of an unblushing
tyranny, have saddened and obscured fee fairest and the gayest
portions of Europe, which have deformed the face of nature
wherever feeir pestiferous genius has acquired an ascendancy.
In fine, we are to look for security from a government which is
constantly making professions of different kinds of sentiments,
and is constantly receding from every thing it professes ; — a go
vernment that has professed, and in its general conduct still
manifests, enmity to every institution and state in Europe, and
particularly to this country, fee best regulated in its govern
ment, fee happiest in itself, of all the empires feat form that-
great community.
Having said thus much on those matters, I shall now shortly
notice a continued confusion in the honourable gentleman's
ideas. On another occasion he could not understand what I
meant by fee deliverance of Europe ; and in feis second effort
of his inquisitive mind he is not more happy. He tells us, he
cannot see any thing in fee present principles of France but mere
abstract metaphysical dogmas. What are those principles which
guided fee arms of France in their unprincipled attack on the
independence of Switzerland, which the honourable gentleman
has reprobated ? Was fee degradation, without trial, of fee
members of tbe assemblies of France— were, in short, those ex
cesses, and that wickedness, in the contemplation of which the
•honourable gentleman says he first learnt to regard France as an
odious tyranny — will he class the principles which could lead to
all these things with the mere metaphysical obstructions of
heated, over-zealous theorists ? He will still persist, at least he
has given the promise of considerable resistance to all arguments
to the contrary* in saying that we have an intention to wage war
gainst opinion. It is not so. We are not in arms against the
opinions of the closet, nor the speculations of the school. We
are at war with armed opinions ; we are at war with those opi
nions which fee sword of audacious, unprincipled, and impious
2 E 3

422 MR. PITT'S [June 7,
innovation seeks to propagate amidst the ruins of empires, the'
demolition of fee altars of all religion, the destruction of every
venerable, and good, and liberal institution, under whatever form
of polity they bave been raised ; and this, in spite of the dis
senting reason of men, in contempt of that lawful authority
which, in the settled order, superior talents and superior virtues
attain, crying out to them not to enter on holy ground, nor to
.pollute fee stream of eternal justice ; — admonishing them of their
danger, whilst, like fee genius of evil, they mimic their voice,
and, having succeeded in drawing upon tbem the ridicule of the
vulgar, close feeir day of wickedness and savage triumph with
the massacre and waste of whatever is amiable, learned, and
pious, in the districts they have over-run. Whilst the princi
ples avowed by France, and acted upon so wildly,' held their
legitimate place, confined to the circles of a few ingenious and
learned men ; — whilst feese men continued to occupy those
heights which vulgar minds could not mount ; — whilst feey con
tented themselves wife abstract inquiries concerning the laws of
matter or the progress of mind, itwas pleasing to regard them
with respect ; for, while the simplicity of tbe man of genius is
preserved untouched, if we will not pay homage to his eccen
tricity, feere is, at least, much in it to be admired. Whilst
these principles were confined in that way, and had not yet
bounded over the common sense and reason of mankind, we saw
nothing in them to alarm, nothing to terrify ; but their appear
ance in arms changed tlieir character. We will not leave the
monster to prowl tbe world unopposed. He must cease to annoy
the abode of peaceful men. If he retire into the cell, Whether
of solitude or repentance, thither we will not pursue him ; but
we cannot leave him on the throne of power.
I shall now give some farther instances of the confusion of the
honourable gentleman's ideas. He says, that the French repub-
blic and liberty cannot exist together: therefore, as a friend to
liberty, he cannot be a friend to France. Yet he tells us almost
in the same breath, that he will not vote for any thing that does
pot tend to secure the liberties of that country, though, to giv>

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 423
him the benefit of his own proposition, not to wish the over
throw of France is not to wish for fee preservation of .English
liberty. Indeed, he says, he will vote nothing for the purpose
of overthrowing that tyranny, or, as he very strangely adds, the
rights and liberties of others — the rights and liberties of France !
But how will tbe gentleman maintain his character for consis
tency, while he will not vote for any measure that seeks to over
throw the power of a government, in the contemplation of which
he has discovered a gulpb in his mind between the ideas of its
existence and fee existence of liberty ? It never, however, en
tered his mind to say that he made the overthrow of the French
republic the sine qud non.
Here another example arises of feat confusion of ideas into
which, contrary to his usual custom, the honourable gentleman
has fallen this evening : — he says he is one of those who think,
that a republic in France is not contrary to the safety of other
countries, and not incongruous to the state of France itself.
How strange is this ! whilst we have it from the honourable gen
tleman, feat liberty and fee French republic cannot exist to
gether. I am ready to say, feat if the republican regimen was
characterized by the sobriety of reason, affording nourishment,
strength, and health to the members of the community ; if the
government was just and unambitious, as wisdom and sound
-policy dictate ; if order reigned in her senates, morals in the
private walk of life, and in their public places there were to be
jfound the temples of their God, supported in dignity, and re
sorted to with pious awe and strengthening veneration by the
people, feere would be in France the reality of a well-regulated
state, under whatever denomination, but obruit male partum,
male rettntiim, male gestum imperiiim. Whilst republican France
continues what it is, then I make war against republican France ;
but if I should see any chance of the return of a government
that did not threaten to endanger tbe existence of other govern
ments, far be it from me to breathe hostility to it., I must
first see this change of fortune to France and to Europe make
its progress with rapid and certain steps, before I relax in the
2 u 4

424 MR- PITT'S [JiWeT,
assertion of feose rights, which, dearer to Britons than all the
world, because by feem better understood and more fully en
joyed, are the common property, • fee links of union of the regu*
lar governments of Europe. I must regard as an enemy, and
treat as such, a government which is founded, on those princi
ples of universal anarchy, and frightful injustice, which, some
times aukwardly dissembled, and sometimes insolently avowed*
but always destructive, distinguish it from every ofeer govern
ment of Europe.
The motion passed without a division.

Th e House afterwards resol ved itself into a committee of Ways, and Means,
Mr. Bragge in the chair ; — when
Mr. Pitt addressed the committee as follows :
Sir, — As the discussion of fee objects to which your attention
is now directed, has on a former occasion occupied in a consider-.
able degree the minds of gentlemen, it will not be necessary for
me to dwell on feem now at any great length. Some articles are
new, but fee principal are fresh in fee recollection of gentlemen. It
is, however, my duty to recapitulate the supplies, and to lay be
fore fee committee tbe ways and means to which I intend to
have recourse to provide for fee expenditure : and if I have be
fore previously felt myself justified in asserting wife confidence
fee flourishing state of our resources, it is at present not less a.
matter of consplation to us, than we before derived from the pros
perous situation of affairs in general. I shall begin wife recapi
tulating the different heads, under which the articles of supply are
usually classed.
Gentlemen will recollect, in stating the article of service.
which first presents itself, and which I had to notice last Decem
ber, under fee head ofthe navy, that it amounted to 10,920,000/.
The ordinaries in that branch of the public service were then
calculated at 693,000/. the extaordinaries at 729,000/. and the

JT99,} PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 435
transport service at 1,300,000/.; so feat fee estimate, wife a,
small addition which afterwards took place, amounted to a sum,
total of 13,653,000/. for the year 1799. The only variation
which I have now to make in feis branch, is a statement which J
am confident the committee will hear with considerable satisfac
tion. The estimate was formed before it could be judged wife
precision how far fee calculation of 7h per man per month would
be sufficient to answer fee objectproposed. But it appears, on mak*
jng up fee accounts to fee 31st of last December, that there has
been a diminution and saving of no less importance than 903,000/.
in feat article. I have also to observe, feat we have now the ad
ditional advantage of taking a view of the present year, wher*
nearly six months of it have elapsed. The accounts a,re made
put, and from the experience which we have already had, I am
justified in stating prospectively, that a farther saving of 5.00,000/,
may be expected in fee course of the year. I am therefore to
deduct feese two sums of 903,000/. being a diminution of the
navy debt, and of 500,000/. which is expected to be saved, and
we shall have the total sum of the supply to answer every exi
gency of this important branch of national exertion at 1 2,250,000/.
being less by 1,403,000/. fean the estimate furnished in Decerrir-
ber. There may also arise circumstances to alter feis statement;
but fee committee will see that I proceed on sure and cautious
grounds. The next article of supply which it is my duty to notice, isv
the army; and I have to remark, feat no alteration is to be
proposed wife respect to the sums voted in December in the
committee of supply, on the estimates then furnished, mak
ing a total amount of 8,840*000/. I also stated at feat time
a vote of credit for one million, and the extraordinaries for
1799, as not likely to exceed, two millions. It affords me pe
culiar satisfaction to be able to inform the committee, feat the
estimate then made was well founded. B.ut with a view to em
ploy to advantage any offensive force, as opportunities may oc
cur, I propose feat the estimate of the army extraordinaries may

426 MR. PITTS [June 7,
be increased to two millions and a half, which will give a total
sum of 12,340,000*.
The estimate under the head of ordnance stood in December
at 1 ,570,000/. ; and feere is no necessity to make any alteration
in it at present.
The charge for miscellaneous services under fee head pf
plantation estimates remains as it was stated in December, at
600,000/. The interest due to the bank on exchequer bills and treasury
bills amounted to 565,180/. but it is now 100,000/. less. I am,
also to notice fee deficiency of ways and means, and shall state
fee specific items, in order to enable gentlemen to form a balance
between the different statements. The discount on the prompt
payment of the loan was stated at 21 1,000/. and that on exche
quer bills, in 1798, at 300,000/. However, tbe general defici
ency of ways and means may be taken at 500,000/. It will be
observed that I take credit for fee assessed taxes, fee voluntary
contributions, and the tax on imports and exports. The whole
sum was estimated at seven millions and a half ; but the produce
was only seven millions, and there is consequently a deficiency
of 500,000/. The product of the assessed taxes was nearly four
millions, and the voluntary contributions, without including In
dia, produced two millions. But it is impossible for us to pass
over those generous exertions of public spirit, without feeling and
expressing the deep and lasting sentiments of gratitude, to which
feey have so distinguished and honourable a claim. It is with
the pride of patriotic exultation that we must ever recollect
those exertions which were made in fee moment of great and
pressing difficulties, and when the weight of the assessd taxes
operated against the liberality from which they sprung. It is
alsoj Sir, a subject of infinite satisfaction to me to state to the
committee, feat no distance of place, however remote, that no
circumstances, however embarrassing, have prevented English
men from assisting their country in the hour of danger. The ar
my and the navy, alike impressed with a conviction qf the justice.

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 4tf
of fee contest in which they fought, came forward and support
ed wife feeir voluntary contributions, the happiness of the coun
try which they had sealed wife their blood. The gratuitous of
ferings of that part of the world to which men were supposed to
have gone for fee purpose of gratifying interested motives and
selfish pursuits, vied in liberality with the rest of the empire ;
and I can undertake to say, that India does not fall short, in pro
portion to the wealth and means of that country, of the whole
sum which the wisdom of the legislature thought fit to impose on
fee country. ' The voluntary contributions from India amount to
fee sum of 300,000/.
It is not now necessary to notice fee imports and exports, but
there has been an iucrease of 520,000/.
. The next article, to which I did not allude in last December,
but in which there is no deficiency in the general statement, is
the unsatisfied services out of 1797- They were formerly de
ducted out of fee growing produce of the consolidated fund, and
I can now state tbem positively at 699i°00/. There is also ano
ther new sum to make good for certain services unsatisfied of
303,000/. and some small articles on the charge of the commis
sioners for managing the national debt, amounting to 30,000/.
In addition to the deficiencies of land and malt, estimated at
350,000/. there is a farther increase of 14S,000/. making a total
deficiency in that article of 498,000/, The subsidy to Russia is
precisely fixed at 825,000/. and the annual addition of 200,000/.
to the sinking fund for fee discharge of the national debt. The vote
of credit is proposed to fee amount offeree millions; but on
account ofthe issue of fee exchequer bills, 1 shall not add that
sum! to the supply.
Gentlemen will find, by recapitulating fee different articles o
supply, that feey give the total sum of 30,947,352/. which is an
increase' by more than 1,600,000/. of feat brought forward at
Chrislinas,ias tbe total ofthe supply was then stated al 29,272,000/.
There^may be omissions of some fractional sums, but the reca-»
pitulation will stand in fee following man ner :

*2S MR. PITT'S [June1?.
Navy * * - * - - - - ,£13,653,000
Deduct diminution of fee navy debt
and saving expected in 1799 - 1,403,000 £ 1-2,250,000
Army -  8,840,000
Vote of credit, 1798  1,000,000
Extraordinaries, 1799  - 2,500^00
Ordnance, exclusive of sea service ----- 1,570,000
Miscellaneous services ---------- 3,264,351
Deficiency land and malt -------- 498,000
Sudsidy to Russia ---------- 825,000
National debt ..-»,-  200,000
30,947,351
Vote of credit for 1799  3,000,000
I now, Sir, come to state the articles of the ways and means,
towhich I intend to have recourse to meet this expenditure. The
first objects that present themselves are the duties substituted for
the land and malt, I mean the duties on sugar, tobacco, and malt,
which produce the sum of 2,750,000/. The next is fee surplus
of fee lottery, giving 200,000/.
Another article which follows is a subject of great and satisfac
tory difference to the committee in the consideration ofthe ways
and means. Gentlemen will recollect I mentioned, last Christ
mas, that fee growing produce of the consolidated fund was likely
to be affected by many burdens and charges in arrear ; and yet I
now am happy to mention, that a considerable surplus is appli
cable to the supply. In one instance 699,000/. has been pro
vided for by a vote. Two quarters have been paid, and two
quarters of fee six which it was supposed would remain, have
actually passed. In looking at the actual produce, making good
all charges, and computing the surplus of fee consolidated fund
up to the latest period, I am enabled to form a very different
statement from what I formerly did. I took it last December,
allowing for all considerations, at 1 ,500,000/. ; and there is, at
present, an actual surplus of 52 1 ,000/. in the quarters of January

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES, 429
and April. After paying all arrears, and including fee advance
of 800,000/. to Grenada, &c. and discharging the interest of th«
imperial loan, ' I am enabled to state fee growing produce at
3,229,000/.; and feis satisfactory circumstance arises from fee
extraordinary -increase of fee two last quarters : so that there is,
in fact, an augmentation of 1,700,000/. beyond what I stated on,
conjecture last December.
The next article relates to the tax on imports and exports.
The estimate which I formed amounted to 1,500,000/.; but, in
consequence of different abandonments which were made, and
some alterations which appeared obviously necessary, the product
was taken at only 1,200,000/. The event has, however, turned
out differently, and so very prosperously, as to justify the origi
nal statement of 1 ,500,000/.
The next article to which I come, I am concerned to observe,
I cannot state with all the satisfaction which I wish I were war
ranted in expressing — 1 mean, Sir, the tenth upon income.
Though I must admit that there bave been grounds altogether
sufficient to enable as to forma correct judgment on fee ultimate
produce of it, in many distant parts of the kingdom I10 returns
of income have been- hitherto made; and it must be observed,
that no final decisions have passed the-commissioners of appeal.
But it is my duty to notice, that in one particular branch from
which much was expected, the account of fee returns • appear*
likely to fall below my calculations. I allude to the commercial
part of the community ; and unless some farther examination
should alter fee operation of the tax, I have no reason to thick
it'will produce more fean one half of the four millions. But it
must be observed, that my information on this point is not suf
ficiently correct, as returns have been made to fee general com~
''missioliefs, and no deduction has been yet made. I may, Sir, at
all events, remark, that whatever may ultimately happen, I shall
not be justified from fee present circumstances in taking credit
for more than seven millions and a half, as the product of this
\tax. Whatever we may take it at, it is necessary for me to say,
feat any defalcation cannot lead us to a conclusion feat material
alterations may not be made with respect to its operation, and-

450 MR; PITT'S [Ju*e7.
for the purpose of rendering it more beneficial to fee exigencies
pf the public service. We ought, Sir, to consider it as far from
being a discouraging circumstance, and by some means or other
fee policy of the country should not be defeated.
I have now to notice the amount of an instalment, or aid and
contribution, in 1798 ; it was 700,000/. ; but now taken, as it
should be, at 650,000/, it will, when added to the seven millions,
and a half, give fee sum of 8, 150,000/. But as it is liable to pay
fee interest of the loan of 1798 for one half year of fee sum of
8,000,000/. a deduction for feat purpose must be made from it of
240,000/. and also a year's interest of, 5/. 7s. per cent, on eleven
millions, amounting to 588,000/., which will leaye fee sum ap
plicable to the supply at 7)300,000/. The first loan is for three
millions, and the second for twelve ¦; and these sums, with the
others I have enumerated, will give a total sum of thirty-one
millions, leaving a small surplus on the ways and means.
RECAPITULATION.
Sugar, tobacco, and malt - - - - - - £% 2,750,009
Lottery ----  - * . . 200,000
Surplus of consolidated fund in Jan. and April, 1799 521,000
Growing produce of ditto -------- 3,229,000
Exports and imports --------- 1,500,000
Ten per cent, on income ----- 7,500,000
Instalments on aids and contributions,
1798  650,000
8,150,000
Deduct half year's interest on
8,000,000/. 1798 - - 240,000
Ditto one year 11,000,000/,
at-5/. 7s. per cent - - 5 88,000 828,000—7,322,000
Loan first ------ 3,000,000
second* -" - - - - 1 2,000,000
 1 5,000,000
.  1  i.
„ , ,.„ 30,522,000
Exchequer bills 3,000,000/.
* 3,000,000/. besides was borrowed for Ireland.

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 431
1 must now, Sir, call the attention of the committee to the cir
cumstance, that there is no provision made for fee exchequer bills
to fee amount of 3,000,000/., as I leave feem ultimately to be
funded, and expect they will be so on more advantageous terms.
This is a consideration fee more probable, from fee punctuality
wife which the navy bills are paid, and the few exchequer bills
which will remain in the market, as they will all be absorbed in
fee instalments of the loan. The arrangement appears to me, in
every point of view, more economical and prudent, than in add
ing 3,000,000/. to the loan.
My next duty, Sir, is to state to the committee the terms upon
which fee loan has been made, and they afford to us and to the
country grounds of peculiar satisfaction. The usual mode of
receiving offers by fair and open competition has been adhered
to. The proposal was made to the competitors of taking 125/.
in the 3 per cent, consols, and 50 in fee reduced, and it was ac
cepted at the price of the day, considerably less than the actual
value of 100/. I have the satisfaction to notice, feat feere was
no contest at the low price of long annuities. Three of the most
respectable bouses in tbe country concluded with me on terms
the most advantageous to the public, and I hope they will prove
not less beneficial to themselves. They agreed -to pay for 125/.
in fee 3 per cent, consols 69L 45. 4|t/. and for the reduced
281. 2s. 6d., making 97 1. 6s. \Q\ri. which, with the benefit of the
discount at 2/. 6s. 6d., gave 99l- 13*. 4|</. Gentlemen will< ob
serve, instead of bonuses, which had been the customary case, the
present bargain has been concluded in a manner unexampled; wife
respect to real advantage ; and I think there can be. no stronger
ground to state, feat tbe public opinion is in unison with my own,
in considering the flourishing situation of our affairs. ' There is
no cause for any gloomy view whatever, and our confidence in
the national prosperity, spirit, and exertions, is, at least, equal
to feat entertained in the most distinguished and successful pe
riods. The next object to which I shall call the attention of the com;
juittee, will be the charges feat are to defray the interest upon.

433 MR. WIT'S [JukEf,
part of this loah which remains unprovided for, by any ofeer
fund. I have fee satisfaction to state, that fee amount of this
sum is small; it is no moreithan 348,000/. The principle which
I propose now to go upon, as the foundation of fee whole sys*
tem of finance, is fee same which I offered to parliament last
year, and which has been acted upon this year ; it is, feat there
sball be no loan contracted for during any year; greater than
what the amount of the sinking fund can pay. off. By fee opera*
tion of this fund fee whole of the loan that is now to be raised
to fifteen millions and a half, will be paid. The whole of fee
taxes which I mean to move for, will rest upon articles feat arise
entirely out ofthe present circumstances of affairs ; and so far
from operating as a tax, will rather be a relief to the public.
This is to be done by withholding a certain proportion of fee
bounty, feat has been allowed as a drawback upon sugars export*
edirom this country. • iff/
I propose, that on clayed sugars from the. British plantations,
in addition to all ofeer duties, a duty of 4*. per cwt. be laid,
Which, estimating the whole at 200,000 cwt. will produce 40,000/.
On British plantation sugar exported, I shall also propose to
withhold 2s. 6d. per cwt. of fee drawback, in addition to 4s. now
retained on 358 cwt.; on East India exported 76;000 cwt. &t-6s.6d.
which will produce fee sum of 62,000/. On foreign plantation
sugar exported, at 2s. 6d. per cwt. will produce 14,000/. By
taking 4s. per cwt. from the bounty now payable on refined sugar
exported, there will arise a sum of 39,000/. And by withhold
ing 4s. from coffee exported, a sum of 65,000/. will be produced.
One article of importation I bave omitted, I mean British
sugars left for home consumption, which at 8d. per cwt. I esti
mate will produce the sum of 56,000/.
There is another article upon which I propose to lay a duty,
which will -scarcely be felt by any description of persons in the
country. In many parts of the kingdom, there is an extensive
circulation of small notes. On every note under 40s. I shall
propose to lay a tax of 2d. ; and as the number supposed to be
circulated throughout Great Britain is estimated at 1,500,000/.
7

1799.] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 433
this tax, according to that number, will produce 62,000/. But
in a matter of so great uncertainty as feis, I will suppose the
amount to be considerably under that sum, and therefore state
it at 42,000/. RECAPITULATION.
750,000* notes annually, at 2d. each, would fee
62,000/. ; but in a matter of so much uncertainty,
suppose only  -..-,£. 42,000
British sugar left for home consumption, 1,700,000
cwt. at 8d.  J - - _ 56,000
Clayed sugar from British plantations, in addition to
all ofeer duties, 200,000 cwt. (estimated) at 4s.
per cwt.  40,000
British plantation sugar exported ; withhold 2s. 6d.
per cwt. of the drawback, in addition to 4s. now
retained on 358 cwt— East India sugars exported,
76,000 cwt. at 6s. 6d. -------- 62,000
Foreign plantation sugar exported, 2s. 6d. per cwt.
on 111,000 cwt. ------- .. 14,000
Refined sugar exported, 4s. per cwt. of the bounty
now payable, to be withheld on 1 96,000 cwt. - 39,000
Coffee exported in 1798, exclusive of Ireland,
327,000 cwt. at 4s.  - - - - 65,000

.£.318,000

I am sure that the various circumstances of feese statements
must confirm in gentlemen's minds the inestimable advantages,
that fee public will derive from an adequate provision being made
to answer the exigencies of each year. Gentlemen must see fee
* It is supposed there are notes under 40s. circulating in the northern
counties to the amount of 400,OOOX chiefly of 20s. each, in Scotland it is
difficult to form a probable conjecture of the number, but the amount can
hardjj be less than a million (perhaps twice as much.) Estimating the wholo
in Great Britain at 1,50(1,000/. and, the notes ta be issued once in two years
is probably moderate.
VOL. III. '2 I

434 MR. PITT'S [June 7
great benefits feat must result wife regard to the future pros
perity of the country. It must fill the mind of every man with
satisfaction to contemplate so pleasing a prospect, that, should
the war in which we are engaged be lengthened to ever so distant
a period, we shall always have within our power the means of
carrying it on with vigour, if our expenses shall not exceed" the
sums at which rney are now estimated, and if we adhere to the
system of borrowing no more than shall be answered by fee taxes
already existing. We have the satisfaction to observe, feat al
though fee tax on income is to be continued during feat period,
yet every year of war entails tbe continuance of that tax only •
for one year after the conclusion of a, peace; and that feere shall
only be a charge of permament taxes to tbe amount of 500,000/.
additional on the country. Therefore, when we are about to cal
culate the burdens of fee war, and compare them with fee evils
attending aii insecure and dishonourable peace, let us ask our
selves this question: Shall we pay for another year a tax of ten
per cent, on income ? shall we, by that comparatively small sa
crifice, save ourselves and Our posterity from future burdens ; br
shall we by a want of energy and public spirit, increase our diffi
culties, and furnish our enemies with fee only advantages they
can have over us ? Let us ask ourselves, what difficulty shall we
have hereafter in bearing the burdens of a temporary loan each
year of ten or eleven millions, for fee payment of which a fund
shall have already been provided ? — loans which will not cause
any accumulated interest, and which will produce no greater
burden than a tax of 300,000/. in each year of war. To be able
/ to ascertain the certainty of this proud situation, is a circum
stance in itself invaluable. Every event that has taken place
within a short period, and the universal expression of tbe, public
opinion, sbejvs .feat we aie rising in private wealth, and public
prosperity and affluence. Every thing convinces us that we are
in a situation*!! which we ought not to stop short of feat adequate,
full, and rational security which we have a right to expect.
Every thing, that now presents itself to our view must serve
to do away the gloomy prognostics, which some. persons, from a
*¦ 3

1799.3 PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 435
spirit of opposition to government, and others from timidity and
despondency,' were in the habit of making. At fee time when I
offered to the house fee plan for increasing the assessed taxes,
feere was no one measure feat excited so great a clamour, and
raised so many doubts in the minds of men, as to the probability '
of its endangering the permament revenue, or striking at the root
of fee manufactures and commerce of the country. We, how
ever, in spite of all this opposition, made the experiment of
adopting a-measure, the principle of which has, during the pre
sent session, been carried to a greater extent. We have the
satisfaction to see feat one plan, was acted upon, and feat the
other has been accepted with the general consent andconcufrence
of all orders of men. This is attested not only by public opinion,
but by the great degree of credit to which fee country has risen :
a' circumstance whichnever happened to the same extent at the
conclusion of any war in which this country has been engaged.
The credit and prosperity of fee country are not alone mani
fested by feese general symptoms; feey even appear in the dif
ferent rounds of pleasure, amusements, and dissipation, wife
which many persohs in fee higher ranks of life are now in fee
habit of indulging themselves. There cannot be a stronger proof
fean this, feat the people bave not been distressed by means of
the war; and that there is nothing gloomy in the finances of the
country. But how has fee war affected fee trade and revenue of
the country? Our trade has never been in a more flourishing
situation: the perpetual taxes of fee present year exceed
what feey were last year, when they amounted to the sum of
14,574,000/., a sum greater fean ever was produced in the most
flourishing times of peace. I need not now ask, whether fee raising
of the supplies within fee year will be any detriment to the wealth
of, the co&ntry ; the experiment feat has already been tried,
^proves the contrary in the clearest and most incontestible man-
" ner. So far from that measure having caused any diminution in
our trade, the imports of the last year are much greater than
feose of any former year : feey amount to twenty-five millions,
•ffeereas feose of the year 1 797, amounted only to twenty-one

436 „ "* MR. PITTS [June 7,
millions. A similar augmentation has taken place m our exports-,
both of home and foreign manufactures. The latter; in the year
1797* amounted to twenty-eight millions: the last accounts that
have been made up, state their amount at 33,800,000/.
I should consider myself as wasting the time of the committee,
were I to enter into any farlher arguments to enforce this principle
to fee utmost; namely, that we should raise a sum within the
year/which should be sufficient to answer the exigencies of each
yeaf." The great advantages arising from snch a plan must be
obvious to every body : it is that plan which of all others will be
most likely to lead to a speedy conclusion of the contest in which
we are engaged *, it is that by which our enemies will be frustrated,
in the hopes they had entertained of ultimately ruining us, by the
wished-for failure of our finances. Even if the spirit of the other
countries of Europe should not prove to be equal to the fair pro*
raises that are now held out to us ; if any of those powers that are
now engaged in one common cause, should relax its exertions, or
shrink from fee alliance by a separate peace ; or even if any ad
vantages, on the part of the enemy, should unexpectedly arrest
feat career of victory and glory in which (he allied armies are now
advancing, and check the fond hopes which we all entertain of
having our exertions speedily crowned with success ; yet, even
under such circumstances this country will stand on a high and
secure ground, and I am happy to feel that the statements I have
made must convince you that we ought not to relinquish the con
test for an hour, until it can be terminated in a manner feat shall
be consistent with the safety and honour ofthe country.
The system that has been pursued in this country, wish respect
to finances, has frequently varied. In all the wars previous to
fee present, during this century, the mode' of raising money has
been feat of borrowing, and leaving to posterily the burden of
paying principal and interest. The successful institution irof the
sinking fund-has made a most material alteration in (his system. The
consequence of this institution will be, that whatever may bek
the expense of any war, each year will carry along wkh it
the extinction of a certain portion of the debt that may be con
tracted ; and in case of the continuance of some years of

1799. ] PARLIAMENTARY SPEECHES. 43T
peace, the whole of the national debt would, after the expi
ration of a certain time, be liquidated by the accumulating ope
ration of this fund ; so that our debt may rather be considered as
an annuity for a limited number of years. But this is not all:
enough would not be done by the sinking fund ; the plan which has
-been successfully adopted of raising the supplies within the year,
whether we look upon it as the means of speedily terminating the
contest, or as the sure means of enabling us to persevere in it
successfully to any length of time, will tend to relieve us from all
fee lasting burdens which a great accumulation of debt would throw
upon the country at a future period. It is only necessary for us
to bear a pressure for a short time ; and I have no hesitation in say
ing that we have ample means to meet this pressure, and the addi
tional burdens which we shall thus wisely impose upon our/selves.
Supposing the consolidated fund to go on as it has done for some
years past, and that there should be noextraordinary rise in the
price of stocks, it will in the year 1808 arrive at ils maximum.
The period from the present to that time will be an interval of
great stress upon the country ; but it will not be difficult to pro*'
vide taxes for these eight years. If we look to (he certainly of
not being baffled in that, on which the enemy found their most san
guine hopes, and place their chief reliance while they meditate
our destruction, we shall have fee satisfaction of seeing that those
resources which our enemies have been obliged to procure through
the medium of robbery, rapine, confiscation and murder, are fur
nished to us by honest industry, and by the free conduct of a ge
nerous and loyal people ; and that i» such abundance, as is suffi
cient to gratify every view of ambition which we may entertain.
Here Mr. Pitt entered at considerable length into a detail of
calculations, which went to shevtr, that the whole of the national
debt might be extinguished in the space of thirty-three years of
peace; feat supposing the war to continue ever so long, it could
be carried on without fee creation of a, new debt ; and lhat in case
the war should soon be terminated, and that an interval of ten
years should happen between the conclusion of one and the com
mencement of another war, in feat period qf peace the sinking
fund would discharge seventy millions of debt, and enable the

438 MR. PUT'S SPEECHES.
country to enter into another war with superior energy, and supe»
rior means.
. . I have now stated to fee committee the whole of the ways and
means, and supply, for the ensuing year. I have shewn that, not
withstanding fee length of time we have been engaged in this im
portant strugglejtyet our vigour has encreased in proportion to the
multiplier! difficulties we had to encounter ; and our resources have
become more abundant by the growing prosperity ofthe country. I
have pointed out tothe committee fee most effectual means of reliev
ing us from those burdens which have hitherto grown along with the
accumulation of debt; and if I have put it in your power to be
queath to your posterity any one system of finance more fair and
perfect than another, I owe it to Ihe spirit, and greatness of the
English nation, I owe it to the happy constitution with which she
js blest (happier, indeed, than that of any other country in the
world) : and it is to all these, as well as to the genius and charac
ter ofthe people* that you are to consider yourselves indebted for
that prosperous, powerful, and formidable situation in which you
now stand.
Mr. Pitt then moved certain resolutions pursuant to his statements, which,
were severally agreed to.

END OF THE THIRD VOLVME,

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