THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS LIBRARY 373.41 Scotir V./ FIRST REPORT THE ROYAL COMMISSIONERS APPOINTED TO INQUIRE INTO THE ENDOWED SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS (SCOTLAND), WITH EVIDENCE AND APPENDIX. UpregenteTJ to fcot!) J£>ou$esf of parliament ftp EomtnattU of Iper Sptijmv. EDINBUEGH: PRINTED FOR HER MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE BY MURRAY AND GIBB. 1 8 7 3. C. 755.] [Price 4s., under 2 J lbs. 3 7 M ( V,/ 9 ENDOWED SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. VICTORIA E. , "TriCTOEIA, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of j V Great Britain and Ireland Queen, Defender of the Faith. To our trusty and well-beloved Sir Thomas Edward Cole- Jp- brooke, Baronet ; our right trusty and right well-beloved cousin, ^ Archibald Philip, Earl of Rosebery; our trusty and well-beloved Sir William Stirling-Maxwell, Baronet ; our trusty and well* /v> beloved Charles Stuart Parker, Esquire ; our trusty and well- , beloved John Eamsay, Esquire ; our trusty and well-beloved * i Henry Hill Lancaster, Esquire, Advocate ; and our trusty and > well-beloved Alexander Craig Sellar, Esquire, Advooate, Greet- »/> ing: o Whereas .the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses and Commis- »/i sioners of Shires and Burghs in Parliament assembled have pre- 018. Are they taken from the poorer class? — They must be orphans belonging to the parishes of Old Machar, St. Nicholas, Nigg, or Ban- chory-Devenick. 919. Are these large parishes that can always supply a sufficient number of orphans ? — The two first are large parishes. 920. There are none but orphans in the asylum ? — None but orphans. 921. They must have been resident for a certain time, I suppose, to be entitled to admission ? — I cannot say. 922. Have you visited the asylum constantly ? — Annually. 923. Is it in the receipt of a Government grant ? — No. 924. Were you invited by the trustees to visit it ? — Yes ; and they have a pupil-teacher, which makes the visit requisite. It is on the Government list as a simple inspection case, not an annual grant case. 925. Do you find that establishment in an efficient state ? — It has been very fairly taught indeed. The discipline is very good, and everything is kept remarkably clean. The older girls devote a pretty large portion of their last two or three years to domestic work. Sewing is very well taught. It is a very large and a very fine house, — perhaps too fine for the purpose. They have only a single servant, with a cook. The whole of the large house, containing about 40 children, is kept in order by the girls themselves. 926. What is the age of the oldest girls ? — They are allowed to remain till seventeen or eighteen. They may be admitted from four to eight, and they are not allowed to leave till a place has been found for them. 927. What is the management ? — The Lord Provost and several mem- bers of the Town Council, the Procurator-fiscal, and the ministers of the North, South, East, and West parishes of Aberdeen. 928. Is there any ladies' committee assisting in the management ? — Yes. There are a great many ladies who take an active interest in it, and visit it regularly. 929. But you know that ladies visit it 1 — Yes. 930. And that there is constant inspection ? — Yes. I don't suppose there is any institution in Aberdeen so frequently visited by persons interested in it. Its principal fault is that it is excessively monastic. In all the other cases I have mentioned, the children are allowed to go home every week for a few hours, on Saturday or Wednesday, or both ; but in this school they are never allowed to go home at all, and their relations may see them only once in three months, between certain hours specified. I am not sure that they are allowed to go home even during vacation. My impression is that they are not. 931. Do you trace any effects of that on the children themselves ? Do they appear less intelligent than children in other institutions you have visited f — No, I should not say so, so far as the elements of education are concerned. 932. Judging from your inspection, is the intellectual standard a good one ? — Yes ; fairly so. 933. And they are well trained for the particular vocation in life on which they are to enter ? — It is one of the evils inherent in all hospitals, that everything is found for them in abundance. I am not able to say, and I don't feel inclined to say, that they are too highly fed or too richly dressed. I believe their feeding is wholesome and good without being extravagant, and their dressing is plain and neat ; but there is never any want of food or dress. There is an unfailing supply, and consequently there is a want of all care as to where it is to come from. 90 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Kerr, How far that may generate want of prudence in after life I cannot say, ^ but I think it is very likely that it would. 934. Do they wear an hospital dress ? — Yes ; they are very comfortably dressed when they go to church. 935. They have no option as to what they shall wear ? — No ; the dress is peculiar. They wear a mob cap in-doors — the old-fashioned white linen cap that old ladies in France wear. All the girls wear that, and they are most anxious to get rid of it. 936. Have you any other remark to make as to that hospital? — It was begun on a very much higher pitch than it is now, — more of a boarding school, — and there was more of young-ladyism in it than there is now. During the last sixteen years there has been a larger amount of domestic work ; and more homely fare and hardier training has been the rule during the last sixteen years than before. I believe it is prin- cipally to the time previous to these sixteen years that the eight un- satisfactory cases belong. Of these, one girl was in jail for stealing, after she had left the school, and seven had illegitimate children. 937. Is the Orphan and Destitute Asylum of a similar character? — Yes ; but there is hardier training and more home life. They are not so well cared for and not so neatly dressed, and the building and the whole surroundings of the children are less complete — less elegant. 938. That is supported by a foundation? — Yes ; established in 1849. 939. It does not receive any subscriptions ? — I think not. 940. Are the benefits of it confined to particular parishes ? — No. One parent must be dead ; they must be respectable, and of legitimate birth, and they must be poor. These conditions are all fulfilled. 941. What are they trained to ? — Domestic work of all kinds. 942. Are they boys or girls ? — Entirely girls. There are 50 girls. 943. And they are trained for domestic service ? — Yes ; they are thoroughly trained, I believe. They make all their own things ; they wash, dress, and bake ; and situations are always found for them. 944. Is there an opportunity of following the career of children in after life ? — Yes ; the eyes of the manager are kept on them for several years afterwards ; and the common impression is, that they turn out better than those from the Orphan Asylum, but I have no means of knowing whether that is so or not. They are generally domestic servants, and on the whole they turn out well. 945. Then your opinion is favourable to the management of this as well as the other? — Yes ; I think, so far as an institution of the kind can be managed under the existing rules, the matron does her duty as well as possible. 946. From your experience of all these institutions, do you think they labour under the disadvantages of the hospital system ? — Yes. 947. And you think they might be modified with advantage ? — Yes ; by more contact with the outer world. 948. By allowing them more frequently to go home, or be boarded out ?— Yes. 949. Or by being mixed with others who pay fees ? — Yes. 950. Have you any other remark to make with reference to the hospital system generally ? — My difficulty as to dealing with any changes in the hospital system is, that in every large town there is a class clearly above pauperism, and yet not clearly above such aid as these hospitals supply. That is a pretty broad class, composed of such as working men with 15s. or 20s. a week, and with a family of five or six children. A man of that sort, if he had the proper Scotch spirit, might refuse to be a pauper, and yet he might quite naturally and without any demoralizing effect take advantage of such an institution as Robert Gordon's Hospital, MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. — perhaps scarcely the others, as they are below a working man in the John Kerr, receipt of daily wages. Esq> 951. Could they not derive the same advantage from the charity with- out being boarded in it ? — Yes, I think so. 952. You would keep up the charity? — Yes, but confine it to the proper recipients and liberalize its management — let the air go through it. 953. You think these charities are excellent in themselves, but that they might be managed more economically and with more advantage to the children ? — Yes ; and I think the greatest care should be taken as to the admission of pupils into such institutions as Gordon's Hospital. I think it, like all hospitals, is open to pupils who are not proper recipients of charity. There are instances in Aberdeen — I don't know that there are very many, but there are by no means few — of people having their sons in the hospital who are well-to-do, and are really above the need of such help. There was a good Dick and Milne Bequest schoolmaster who, while still alive, and receiving the average emoluments of a parish schoolmaster, had a son educated in Gordon's Hospital ; and other examples might be given. It was common to purchase a right to the guildry for £20, £30, or £35, for the sake of getting a son educated ; and at one period, in order to check this abuse, the price of entrance to the guildry was raised to £45. The guildry has become a fiction since 1848, and the price of entry has been raised to £45, to prevent persons purchasing it in order to get their sons educated in the hospital. 954. Would you throw open the advantages of the hospital more widely to other classes than the guildry ? — Yes ; they are doing that now. It is open now to residenters who are indigent ; and two-thirds of the 24 elected in October last were fatherless ; and of the 24, 15 belonged to the residenters, who were neither burgesses of guild nor of trade. 955. Mr. Ramsay. — Merely to the children of parents residing in Aber- deen ? — Yes. 956. Mr. Parker. — The resolution to admit these classes is dated in July last ? — They have had several meetings. It is very likely it was in July. They elect every six months. The first meeting for the election of pupils may have been in October. It is only fair to say that this opening up of the institution is not a new idea. They talked of it three years ago. I mean that it was not done in anticipation of any legislative measure. 957. The Chairman. — You said you had often visited Milne's Institu- tion, Fochabers. That is a considerable endowment ? — Yes. 958. Have you visited it as a Government inspector 1 — Yes. 959. Is it in receipt of the Government grant? — For pupil-teachers only. The principal teacher cannot receive any Government grant, inasmuch as there are no voluntary contributions. 960. Is that an efficient school? — It has always been a very well taught school. It is four years since I visited it. It does not belong to my dis- trict now ; but I dare say I can add nothing to what Mr. Gordon said about it yesterday. The instruction is very good, though to a great extent gratuitous. I think the managers take considerable pains to secure that the attendance shall be regular, by making expulsion from the school follow upon continued irregularity of attendance. I speak from impression. 961. It is free to the inhabitants of the parish, is it not? — Yes; I think to the residenters in Bellie. I know it is common for widow ladies with small means to go and live in Fochabers, for the sake of the edu- cation in the institution. 962. And do they pay fees? — No. They go and reside there in order to derive the benefit of it. 92 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. John Kerr, 963. Do they go to such an extent as to be a considerable abuse ? — I Es(1, never heard it spoken of as such. 964. You have merely heard the fact that they do come ? — I know that to be so. 965. Has any attempt been made to ensure better attendance on the part of the free children by more stringent rules ? — I never heard that it formed the subject of a serious complaint. 966. It is stated by the Assistant Commissioners under the Scotch Edu- cation Commission, that the master of the school made that complaint ; but that did not come under your observation ? — No ; but I should be rather surprised if it were not so. I believe gratuitous education tends to irregularity. 967. Is that the result of your experience in places where you have seen the effect of gratuitous education ? Do you think that in itself it is an evil I — Yes ; and that is due not perhaps entirely to its being gratuitous, though that is one cause of it. The class to whom gratuitous education is given is generally very poor, and is less above the temptation of a small earning. Want of clothes, and other little temptations to remain from school, will always apply to that class ; so that the irregularity is not due alone to its being undervalued as being gratuitous. 968. Have you visited Brown's School in Aberdeen? — Yes. 969. The education is free to the inhabitants of certain parishes ? — Yes, at reduced rates for those a little above paupers, and at ordinary rates for all the rest. 970. Did you find the attendance irregular there ? — Yes. The master told me that the gratuitous pupils attended most irregularly. 971. Were these pupils all persons who were unable to pay fees ? — The lowest class — the only class who got education perfectly free — were pau- pers. They charge a reduced fee from the class a little above that, and the rest pay the average fee. 972. You have also visited the schools connected with the Dick and Milne Bequest. With reference to the Dick Bequest, are you satisfied with the condition in which you found these schools ? — Perfectly. 973. They are administered on a system under which there is a special inquiry into the condition of the school before they receive any grant ? — Yes. 974. And the amount is conditional on the efficiency of the school? — It depends on several conditions, all of which are judiciously drawn up, — on the population, the examination the teacher has passed at his first competition, the number of those learning the higher branches, and so on. There are five or six conditions, all of which affect the payment. The payment is regulated by these conjoint considerations. 975. Do these schools in general receive Government grants besides?—* They may if they like. There is no reason why they should not. 976. But as matter of fact, are they generally in the receipt of grants ? — I have forty or fifty Bequest schools which receive grants in Aberdeen alone. 977. What proportion is that of the whole? — About one-half of the parochial schools receive Government grants ; and they might all do it, if the buildings were sufficient, and the teacher were qualified, as he will be by the Act just passed. 978. Do they all receive assistance from the Dick Bequest ? — All who have passed the examination, and who have not been disqualified by some other consideration which the trustees decide upon. 979. The principle on which the Dick Bequest is administered is vir- tually the same as that on which the Government grants are given, — on MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 93 condition of the efficiency of the school and the schoolmaster ? — There is John Kerr, a very important difference, because the Government grant in Scotland has been hitherto paid wholly or refused wholly. There is no medium between full payment and none ; and the crowning merit of the Dick Bequest is, that payments are graduated according to merit, and may change every year. A man may have the highest this year, and he might have the lowest next year, though I don't suppose such a case has occurred ; and a man never can let himself fall into carelessness from having once been at the top. I do not think any fund has done so much good. I know no fund that has produced a shilling's worth for a shilling so fully as the Dick Bequest. 980. With reference to the Milne Bequest, is it not devoted to the gratuitous education of children in certain parishes ? — Yes, that is part of it. The object of Milne was twofold. One was to improve the position of the teacher, — I think his words are that they have a miserable pittance, — to raise the standard of the teacher ; and the other is to pay for the education of those who require such aid. £20 is paid to the schoolmaster, for which 25 children of the poor, but not paupers, must be educated. 981. But the object of the bequest was as much to benefit the school- master as the children ? — Yes. 982. It had a double object ? — Yes. 983. What is your experience as to the administration of that grant ? — I don't think it is nearly so well administered as the Dick Bequest. It is not so stimulative, inasmuch as, if my impression is correct, a man who has once got on to the Milne Bequest, may within very wide limits fall considerably short of his best without any danger of losing his grant. I believe that lately they have introduced a very salutary change, viz. cut- ting off certain teachers who fall below a certain class. This change was introduced some two or three years ago. The teachers are divided into five or six classes, and those who fall below a certain class were two or three years ago cut off. That has had a very salutary effect. Another important change is, that while election to the bequest was very much a matter of canvassing till lately, they have introduced the custom of putting the non-participating teachers — those who are not yet on the bequest — in the order of merit, and transferring these to the vacancies created by death in the participating list. So that you have, to begin with, a certain stimulus to the teacher to rise as high as possible on the list of the non-participating, that he may receive the bequest as soon as a vacancy occurs. But my impression still is, that a Milne Bequest teacher having once got it, may be tolerably content to do very much below his best, and yet be sure of his money. It would certainly be an improvement to graduate the payment as in the case of the Dick Bequest. 984. And at the same time keep up the system of the gratuitous teaching of a certain number of children ? — Yes. They have also thought of introducing this, — that in the future estimate of the efficiency of a school for the qualification, the three R's shall not be taken into account at all, inasmuch as they are already provided for sufficiently by Govern- ment, and that the higher branches alone will constitute the basis of the estimate. 985. Then this assistance will be for training children in the higher branches ? — Yes. 986. What steps are taken to examine the schools, to see that the teachers comply with the conditions of the grants ? — I believe the Milne Bequest schools are visited every second year, and the examination is conducted, I presume, very much as the Government examination is con- 94 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. John Kerr, ducted. They are examined by a paid inspector. The present inspector Esq> is Dr. Christie, of Kildrummie. They have not the power, unfortunately, at present to graduate their payments ; they must either pay £20 or not pay any part of it. 987. Under the terms of the bequest? — Yes. 988. Nor have they the power of requiring fees from those who benefit?— No. 989. The education must be gratuitous ? — The kirk session must certify an average of 25 children who have during the year received edu- cation in the school. 990. Who select the children? — The kirk session. 991. Under what conditions does a parish derive the benefit from the Milne Bequest ? It is not given indiscriminately to all ? — To all so far as the funds will go. Out of 114 schools in Aberdeenshire, 89 participate. 992. Do you think it expedient that there should be any change in the principle of the administration of the fund ? — To the extent of making it depend more upon merit. Merit does come in for the first election, but merit plays a comparatively small part after a man has once got it. He may keep his head decently above low water with perfect safety for years, although they did cut off the lowest class. 993. But in regard to gratuitous education, you don't see any reason for making a change in that respect ? — I don't look on that so much as simply gratuitous education, inasmuch as Milne's object was not solely to educate so many poor children who would otherwise be pro- vided for under this bill, but also to raise the status of the teacher ; and if that were administered as the Dick Bequest is, with a graduated pay- ment according to merit, tested in the same manner as under the Dick Bequest, it would be a lever corresponding in power to the amount paid. 994. Have you any further remarks to make with reference to the object of our present inquiry ? — I don't know whether you would care for the payment made by the Dick and Milne Bequests together, as com- pared with the amount paid by the heritors. The amount paid in Aber- deenshire in the 84 rural parishes, taking £43 as the average payment, is £3612. 995. Mr. Parker. — £43 is the average parochial salary paid by the heritors? — Yes; and there are 84 rural parishes, making £3612. Now there are 89 Milne Bequest schools, £20 each, £1780; and 91 Dick schools, which receive an average of £30, you get £2730 — in all, £4510 ; so that the Dick and Milne Bequests contribute more to the salary of the parish teachers in these two counties than the statutory sum paid by the heritors. 996. Can the teacher of the same school hold the Dick and Milne Bequests? — Yes, in Aberdeenshire. 997. Then he may have £20 from one and £30 from the other, making £50, and only £43 from the heritors? — Yes. 998. And besides that, he has the fees? — Yes, and possibly the Government grant. 999. Can you say what are the average total emoluments of a school- master enjoying both these bequests and the grant? — Probably £120 without the Government grant ; and the Government grant ranges from £15 to £30 for his own certificate; and if he has pupil-teachers, from £5 to £15 more, according to the number of pupil-teachers. I should say that £145 or £150 would be the average emoluments of a parish school- master in receipt of the Dick and Milne Bequests, and in some cases even £250. 1000. Are there many who receive the Dick and Milne Bequests ? — Yes. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 95 There are 114 parochial schools altogether in Aberdeenshire, including John Kerr, side parochial schools ; 89 of these receive the Milne, and 91 receive the Es( i- Dick Bequest. I think to treat the Milne Bequest as a charity would be a pretty severe blow to education in Aberdeenshire. 1001. The Chairman. — Do you think the effect of the bequests has been to provide for these counties teachers of a higher standard of educa- tional acquirements ? — There is nothing more certain than that. Out of the 150 parish teachers in Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray, at least 130 are Masters of Arts. You will find that nowhere else in Scotland. 1002. Is the education given in the schools raised in proportion? — Yes ; and there are comparatively few parish schools in Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray in which the higher branches are not well taught. Latin is taught in almost all, Greek in a considerable number, and in some very well ; and the parish schoolmaster does in point of fact train his boys up to the point of going straight to the University. In many cases the boy takes a quarter or half a year in the Old Town Grammar School, or in the New Town Grammar School, to give point and direction to his work before entering on the bursary competition in Aberdeen, but a great many go straight from the parish school to the University and carry off bursaries. At all events, the foundation — the solid work — has been done in the parish school, with a quarter's training preliminary to the competition. 1003. Mr. Ramsay. — Do the high attainments of parish schoolmasters in that district prevent their giving equal attention to the elementary branches ? — I believe that was the case before Government grants came in; but as a considerable portion of their income depends on the receipt of the Government grant, and as that provides thoroughly for the efficiency of the lower branches, I have no hesitation in saying that the parish schools of Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray will, even in the lower branches, compete with any schools in the country. 1004. Is it your opinion that these endowments have been the means of sustaining attention to the elementary branches ? — I believe less Latin and Greek are taught. This is not entirely due to the additional attention paid to the lower branches, but to the general falling away of Latin and Greek in the country. We are becoming a more commercial age. Boys are more seldom drafted into the learned professions than before. That has been the principal cause of the falling away of Latin and Greek. 1005. Mr. Parker. — Is there any falling away in mathematics ? — I cannot give an opinion upon that. I am not aware of any. 1006. Is any more attention paid to French than formerly? — Very little yet. I think the changes in the Aberdeen bursary competition, which now recognise French, will tend in the course of years to produce that, but not immediately. 1007. Mr. Sellar. — Is it not the fact that the schools in Aberdeen teach with a view to the bursary competition ? — Yes. 1008. Is it not the fact that the high standard of Latin and Greek in the parochial schools of Aberdeen may be accounted for in that way ? — No question of that ; they work into each other's hands. There is a very large bursary fund open to all comers. The best man wins, and the school- master hopes to be able to train up to that ; while the emoluments are sufficient to induce able men to come to the parochial schools ; and they have a sufficient motive for training the boys, as they have the credit if their pupils carry off a bursary. 1009. Do any of the Kincardineshire schools send up competitors for the bursaries ? — Comparatively seldom. If you draw a line round Aber- deen, Banff, and Moray, and cross the line on the north, west, or south, you come into a territory where there are almost no Masters of Arts. 96 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. John Kerr, 1010. And where Latin and Greek are taught in a very limited de- Es( i' gree? — Yes, with a few exceptions. 101 1. To an average of how many students in the non-bequest schools, — an average of four or five in each school ? — Oh, not so many. 1012. Mr. Ramsay. — You approve of the attention which is now paid to the elementary branches ? — Yes. That was very much wanted in Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray, — perhaps more so there than elsewhere, inasmuch as they had stronger motives for attention to the higher branches. But I dare say that was required all over the country. The old parish school was very different from the present parish school. I believe the schools under Government inspection in these three counties are quite as good as any in Scotland in the lower branches, and superior in the higher. 1013. Then you deem it beneficial to apply endowments, such as you have been speaking of, to link our parish schools with the higher in- struction ? — Clearly. 1014. And to prepare the children for the universities ? — Clearly. I have no doubt about that. 1015. Is that best secured by taking care that the attainments of the teacher be such as to fit him for giving that education, or by means of graded schools, such as would be necessary if our parish schools ceased to teach the elements of the classics and mathematics ? — It is quite clear that we must have teachers if we are to have the results ; and I am afraid you cannot hope for qualified teachers at starvation salaries. If you wish to have a high class of teachers, you will require to hold out the temptation of higher emoluments. In fact, in Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray, you have invariably Masters of Arts, because they have from £40 to £50 coming in from the Dick and Milne Bequests. Elsewhere in Scotland you will not find one in fifty, just because there is no such inducement. Masters of Arts are not, however, required for all, nor for even a large proportion of our schools. Many schools could furnish neither work nor pay for a Master of Arts. Graded schools are therefore necessary. 1016. Then the effect of these endowments is to link the parish schools of these counties to the universities ? — I think so, clearly. 1017. Mr. Sellar. — In regard to the hospitals which you have men- tioned, did you examine each scholar individually ? — For the first time rigidly last year ; and my report was that, according to the ordinary standard, they were very much on a level with the parish schools. 1018. Do you remember the per-centage that passed? — No. 1019. With reference to the higher branches, how did they stand in the Aberdeen Hospital in comparison with such schools as Milne's Insti- tution, Fochabers? — Mathematics quite as good in Gordon's Hospital as in Milne's Institution, Fochabers; Latin decidedly inferior in the former. Latin has never formed anything but a subordinate branch in Gordon's Hospital, — I don't know whether from intention on the part of the governors, or from the teacher not having time for it. Lads who could write with creditable accuracy anything in the first six books of Euclid, omitting the fifth, could do little more than a little bit of Melvin's Lessons, the simplest of all Latin text-books. 1020. Have any of the pupils from these hospitals gone as competitors for the bursaries to the University ? — No. They have gone to the mathe- matical class, and some of them have taken a full University course, and one is now in the Civil Service in India, while a brother of his is training in the same direction. There are a number of respectable merchants of all kinds, architects and others, who were once Gordon's Hospital boys. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 97 1021. In examining the Milne Bequest schools, did you select the John Kerr, children who have the benefit of that bequest ? — I did not. Es( i- 1022. Did you make any inquiries as to the regularity or irregularity of their attendance ? — I did not. 1023. Have you considered the question of founding training schools for teachers of the higher branches, similar to the normal schools for the elementary branches ? — I have not thought of that. I have in two or three reports advocated the union of University and normal school training, instead of the training they now undergo in the normal school, so that all the good that could be got from the practical training in the normal school could be got in less time, and leave part of the session free for attendance at the University. 1024. But have you thought of a higher class of training schools than the normal schools, — I mean training schools for teachers in the higher class schools ? — No, I have not thought of that ; but can there be a better training for that than the University ? 1025. They have no means of learning actual training there ? — They will learn that in six months. 1026. Mr. Ramsay. — Where will they learn it! — They can learn method, and the means of interesting a class, if they are ever to acquire it, in three or six months ; and this may be got at an ordinary normal school. 1027. You have known persons of great attainments who were very ill fitted to communicate instruction ? — Yes. Mr. Morrison of the Glasgow Normal School has said that he will undertake to give all the practical training in teaching necessary for students, and also allow them time to attend the University, without any deficiency of the practical training required for successful teachers ; and I quite believe it. If a teacher will not learn the art of communicating what he knows in six months, under proper management, he will never learn it. 1028. Mr. Sellar. — Would you then suggest that teachers qualifying for the higher schools should spend six months at a normal school ?— - Yes. 1029. Would it then be unnecessary to have a higher class training school ? — I think so. 1030. Have you considered the proposal to found a Chair of Paideutics in the University % — I have not thought of that. 1031. Do you think that attendance at lectures would be calculated to make good practical teachers? — I think so, but I have not given attention to the subject. 1032. Mr. Parker. — With reference to the Milne Bequest, Dr. Milne provided that the income shall always be applied in such a manner as not in any way to relieve the heritors from their legal obligation to support the schoolmaster, or to diminish the extent of such support. Do you think it has been so administered as in any way to relieve the heritors ? Do you think the payment on an average of £43 from the heritors is as large as in other counties ? — I have heard it hinted that the heritors in Aberdeenshire had kept down their payment below what they might other- wise have paid, in consideration of these bequests; but a very effective reply to that is, that I don't suppose there are any counties where the maximum is so frequently paid as in Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray. 1033. The maximum being £70 ? — Yes. They have been willing iu these cases to recognise the value of a good teacher, and to pay him. 1034. Did you say that the average was £43 ? — Yes. 1035. Then there must be a good many who are paying much less than the maximum ? — Yes, I dare say there are. The maximum is not fre- quently paid in any county. G 98 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Kerr, 1036. You think the average of £43 is not below the average of the Es( l- rest of Scotland ? — I should think not, but I cannot say positively. 1037. How would you propose, under the new system, to prevent the income of Dr. Milne's Bequest going to reduce the legal obligation on the ratepayers ? What is to prevent a School Board in Aberdeenshire availing itself of the Milne and Dick Bequests to the extent of £50, and paying the schoolmaster very little beyond that from the rates ? — I pre- sume the School Board could if they chose fix the amount, and pay the schoolmaster with a certain sum, that sum being less than it would other- wise be were it not for the Dick Bequest. The School Board might say, c Here is a teacher who receives £20 from the Dick Bequest ; he does not deserve more than his neighbours in Kincardineshire, and we will vote him so much less.' I think that is perfectly possible. 1038. Supposing the School Boards were disposed to be economical, they might clearly reduce the total emoluments of a schoolmaster in Aberdeenshire ? — They might, no doubt ; but they might do so anywhere else too. They might anywhere reduce the emoluments. 1039. But in another county they would not get a master at all below a certain price, while in Aberdeenshire for the same price they would get an inferior master ? — That is perfectly possible, and I do not see how that is to be met. 1040. Then it will require considerable care on the part of the Milne trustees to prevent the money going contrary to the founder's direction, in such a way as to relieve the School Boards from their obligation ? — Yes ; the power of the School Board is so absolute. 1041. Mr. Ramsay. — Is there always an adequate supply of highly qualified teachers for the schools in the counties of Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray ? — Yes, I think so. They are not all first-class men ; but when- ever a decently good school falls vacant, as a rule it is competed for by a considerable number of M.A.'s. 1042. Do you think that the withdrawal by a School Board of what under the late Act was a minimum salary, would preclude them from com- peting for these schools ? — Do you mean a diminution of their total income by £35 ? 1043. Yes: would that lead them to abstain from competing for the position of teachers in these schools? Would the supply of good teachers cease ? — To a certain extent. It is a purely commercial question. You will get a £100 man and a £150 man, but you will not get a £150 man for £100. 1044. Mr. Parker. — Can you suggest any course of action by which the Milne trustees could maintain the average salary of schoolmasters in Aberdeenshire at its present high level, and so carry out the intention of Dr. Milne ? — If you have a tolerably conscientious School Board, a threat by Dr. Milne's trustees to withdraw the bequest unless a certain amount was paid, would be effective ; but if you had a School Board that did not care for education being maintained, they would say, 4 We don't care whether you get a good man or not ; we will give £40 or £50, and Dr. Milne can keep his money.' But I should not anticipate that. 1045. Looking to the terms of Dr. Milne's Bequest, you would think it the duty of the trustees not to give the bequest unless an adequate salary were paid also by the School Board ? — I think so. It would work in the same way as the Government system worked, in securing good school buildings. The grant was refused to buildings that were bad ; and nothing has done so much to secure good schoolrooms throughout the country. 1046. Mr. Ramsay. — Have you anything further to suggest ? — There MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 99 is a Female Industrial School in Aberdeen, which has now become a cer- John Kerr, tilied school. It was not so till two years ago. There is one point in • Esq ' the heads of inquiry, ' Are convicted and vagrant children sufficiently pro- vided for by voluntary effort, and the Industrial Schools Act of 1856?' The objection that the managers of schools have to the industrial schools Act is, that children of very wicked and drunken parents, who are not sent begging, are perfectly beyond the reach of the Act, and may remain beyond the reach of voluntary effort. Under the Industrial Schools Act, a child may become a certified pupil if she is found begging or wandering about. Then there are the voluntary inmates. But there is another class, viz. the improvident drunken class, who do not send their children to beg, who are excessively cruel to their children, and yet the Industrial Schools Act gives no power over them. 1047. Have you considered the effect that the provisions of the Edu- cation Act will have on that class, from the power that it gives to compel attendance? — Yes ; but I fear the compulsory clause will leave many cases untouched. 1048. Mr. Parker— A. question that would arise on that is, whether they could properly be compelled to attend the same school with the children of more respectable parents, or whether some separate, provision would be desirable? — These are not necessarily vicious children. The father happens to be an improvident man. I may take the actual case of a man with 15s. a week, a cork-cutter in Aberdeen. The children were not sent to beg, but their parents were cruel to them. The trustees of the Industrial School could not get hold of them, till one night that both their parents were tipsy, began to fight, and were taken to jail, and then the children were taken to the Industrial School. But as long as the parents remained out of the grip of the law, these children could not be touched. 1049. You believe that many of them would be fit for an ordinary school, and that they would behave well enough in the same school with others ? — I think so. 1050. Do you think in a town like Aberdeen there would be a residue of this class of children who would be quite unfit to mix with other children ? — I don't see why they should be disqualified unless by crime. They are simply poor children. They have very bad manners, I dare say, and very filthy habits, but they are simply poor children. I think that those who would not be admitted to the ordinary schools would be the proper subjects for the certified industrial schools. 1051. Would it be useful for the School Board to have the power to send refractory children of that class to the industrial school? — I should think so. 1052. Mr. Ramsay. — Have you any other remark to make? — I have a note as to the higher instruction, and the only thing I can say about that in Aberdeen is, that there is a Mechanics' Institute, in which chemistry, theoretical mechanics, applied mechanics, mathematics, electricity, and magnetism are taught ; — in the School of Arts, free-hand drawing, 300 pupils ; mechanical and machine drawing, 45 pupils ; and architectural drawing, 20 pupils. 1053. Mr. Parker. — Are these institutions entirely self-supporting? — The teachers are paid from fees and from passes in the Science and Art department. But the other day £1000 was given as a donation by a man still living. 1054. Is the income of that to be applied ? — Yes. The number of pupils is 18 in chemistry, 11 in mechanics, 20 in applied mechanics, 40 in mathematics, and 13 in electricity and magnetism. 1055. Have you any remarks to make about evening schools ? — I have no experience of evening schools. 100 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 9 John Kerr, 1056. Mr. Ramsay. — I suppose you are of opmitfh that the provision Esq ' for the higher instruction or secondary education in the counties with which you are best acquainted, is adequate ? — Yes, I think so, in Aber- deen, Banff, and Moray. I observe that I have a note about Thain's School, which is a purely charitable school, in Aberdeen. The annual revenue is £100, £80 of which goes to the present teacher, aud £20 to the retired teacher. It is entirely spent in the education of destitute children, who number from 100 to 150. They get nothing but books and education. The school is said to be doing much good. That is one of the schools that would raise the question how far the rates should be relieved by a school of that kind. Would not the rates thoroughly provide for all the children who are taught there ? Would Thain, if he had lived now, in view of the present Act, have left £100 a year for the education of children for whom the Government now provides ? The proper way to look at that, I think, is the standpoint of the testator if he had lived now. Here is £100 now certainly well spent. They are all destitute children — the most destitute of the non-criminal class in Aberdeen ; and that is spent in education and books — no feeding and no clothing. Now these would certainly be over- taken by the new Act ; and the question is, would it be wrong to apply that £100 to the higher education, seeing that the object for which it was given has been otherwise provided for ? 1057. Mr. Sellar. — What is your own opinion on that subject? — Of course the area round Thain's School might complain that this fund, left for the education of the poor, was to a certain extent a release from the rates, to the benefit of which they were entitled as a legatee to a legacy ; but that might be thought a very small matter. 1058. Do you consider it a very small matter that the rates should be relieved to that extent ? — The principle is very important, but I have some difficulty in coming to a conclusion about it. 1059. Mr. Ramsay. — Was there not an obligation implied in the old Scottish law? Heritors had power, without payment of fees, to send children to the parish school ; and the gentleman who left this money must have been aware of that when he left it ? — Quite true. 1060. Mr. Sellar. — You would not give an opinion as to whether the rates should be relieved to that extent by these endowments or not ? — I don't feel quite clear as to that. I think it likely that if he had lived now, he would not have left the money in that way. He would probably have said, What is the use of my doing Government work ? But now that it has been left, and that it does relieve to the extent of £100 a year that dis- trict in Aberdeen, would it be fair and just to pocket, for the benefit of the middle class, a sum meant for the lower class, and which certainly will fall to a certain extent on the lower classes, by their being taxed £100 more? 1061. Mr. Ramsay. — Have you seen that school ? — I have not. I know two or three of its directors very well, and they say that the class over- taken by it is a needy class, and that the school is doing much good. 1062. You are not aware of the means taken for securing regular attendance? — No. 1063. Mr. Parker.- — You spoke of taking the endowment for the middle instead of the lower class. But would it not be possible to use it for higher education, and yet to use it for the poorer class ? — Yes, they might have their own share of the higher education; but the lower classes don't usually get a large share of the higher education. 1064. But you might apply such a fund to continue the education of promising boys of the poorest class ? — Certainly. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 101 1065. And that would be a diversion to higher education, but not a John Kerr, diversion from that class ? — Quite true. This leads me to remark that I Es( i- would be disposed to suggest with reference to Gordon's Hospital, that any spare funds would very well be bestowed in providing bursaries for the cleverest boys who have shown themselves at the head of the classes, and who could profit by a University education, which is not done just now at all. 1066. Mr. Parker. — You mean bursaries from Gordon's Hospital to the University ? — Yes. That the best boys should have bursaries open to them, to enable them to prosecute their studies. 1067. Do any of the Gordon's Hospital boys get open bursaries ? — No. That is simply from the want of Latin training. They are up to the mark in mathematics. Now that Latin is not imperative, they may come iuto competition. Adjourned. WEDNESDAY, 27th November 1872. PRESENT Sir Edward Colebrooke, Chairman. The Earl of Rosebery. Mr. Ramsay. Sir W. S. Maxwell, Bart. Mr. Parker, M.P. Mr. Sellar. Mr. Laurie, Secretary. Mr. George Ogilvie, examined. 1068. The Chairman. — You were at one time head master of Stewart's Mr. George Hospital ? — Yes, for fourteen years. Ogilvio. 1069. You are at present at the head of one of the Merchant Com- pany's schools ? — I am. 1070. And you have been so since its establishment? — I have. 1071. What in your opinion were the favourable circumstances con- nected with Stewart's Hospital before it was changed? — Stewart's Hospital was almost new when I went there, and its newness was in its favour. The pupils were all young, the eldest only about ten or eleven ; they were therefore free from those traditional evils which are handed down from one race of boys to another. The comparatively small number of pupils was also much in its favour. I was able to get inti- mately acquainted with every boy's peculiarities and nature, and with his character as a boy, and I could in consequence use means to make the most of him. These were probably the most important circumstances in favour of the hospital. 1072. How many boys were there in the hospital? — 68. 1073. Some were admitted at seven, and others were admitted at later periods ? — The ages of the boys who were admitted ranged between seven and ten. 1074. Did you consider it an advantage for them to be admitted at 102 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George the younger age ? — No ; I preferred them to be admitted at the older Ogiivie. a g e ^ p r0 vided they were fairly well advanced at that age. 1075. Was there any test by examination on the admission of the boys ? — Yes ; they were selected by examination. 1076. What, in your opinion, was the effect of the hospital training upon the boys so selected ? — Upon the younger boys it was more perceptibly injurious than on the older boys. The depressing influence of the hos- pital seemed to tell upon them more injuriously than when they were admitted at the age of ten. It was difficult to induce them to devote their energies to their work. There was a sort of indolence and apathy manifested very much more prominently in the case of such boys, especially if they were from the lower classes of society. 1077. But that was less apparent in those who were admitted later? — It was. 1078. Do you draw any distinction between those who were admitted from the lower class and those from the higher class of society ? — Yes. The lower class seem to feel the irksome nature of the hospital training more than those of the better class. They had probably been brought up with more freedom, and the regularity and cleanliness of the hospital were distasteful to them at first ; while the better class seemed to have been transferred to the same comforts which they had enjoyed at home before they had lost their parents, and it told more favourably upon them than upon the lower class. 1079. Would you state more particularly what you consider to be the disadvantage of the hospital system in itself ? — There was a depressing influence constantly apparent upon the boys, and there was also a selfish- ness exhibited. 1080. Did that depressing influence arise from their being kept almost entirely in the hospital? — Yes. When I went there, the boys were allowed to get out only once in two months, and the close con- finement seemed to have a very depressing influence upon them. We relaxed that regulation, and allowed them out weekly, which was certainly a great improvement ; and afterwards they were allowed out from Satur- day morning till Monday morning ; and I believe that had that been going on for a few years, the effect upon the boys would have been very marked. However, we had the latter arrangement in operation only for one year before the hospital was broken up. 1081. Did the boys receive visits from their parents when they were in the hospital ? — Yes. When they were confined in the hospital, they received visits ; but after they were allowed to get out on the Saturdays, their parents very seldom visited the hospital. 1082. Were many of the boys orphans ? — Yes ; and almost all without fathers. There were a few boys of the preferential name of Stewart whose fathers were alive ; but we found that class perhaps the worst of all to manage, and the most neglected before entering the hospital. 1083. Sir W. Stirling Maxwell. — Do you mean that they were boys of the name of Stewart ? — Yes, the sons of fathers named Stewart. There was a number of families of Stewarts who came to Edinburgh with the view of getting their children admitted to the hospital. 1084. The Chairman. — They considered they had a claim upon it, and that their boys received admission as a right ? — Yes. 1085. But that, you think, was to their own disadvantage ? — Yes, very much. They neglected their children; and for some time the boys of that name were admitted without examination. If a Stewart applied, he was admitted at once; and the consequence was, that the Stewarts became very numerous on our hands, and exercised a very pernicious influence in the hospital. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 103 1086. What sort of a proportion did they bear to the others? — Mr. George Perhaps at one time we had as many as 1G or 17 out of the 68. After a °g iIvie - time, however, they were made to undergo an examination. We re- jected several of the Stewarts, and that tended to remove the evil to some extent. 1087. Sir W. Stirling Maxwell. — What evidence was required of their being Stewarts? — They had a baptismal line, in order to show that they were within the limits of age required. 1088. They had to show that they had been registered in the name of Stewart ?— Yes. 1089. Was the father's baptismal register also required? — No. 1090. The Chairman. — The practice of admitting boys of the name of Stewart without examination, was, however, abolished? — Yes. 1091. And beneficially? — Yes; very much to the benefit of the institution. 1092. Do you consider that the hospital system had also a bad influence on the parents of the boys ? — 1 think it had, on the lower class, those who had had perhaps no advantages of education themselves. In the better class, such as widows who had been at one time in favourable cir- cumstances, and whose sons were admitted to the hospital, it had not an injurious effect. 1093. They were grateful for the advantage? — They were grateful, and very anxious that their children should be kept in the position in which, perhaps, their fathers had been, and they generally stimulated and urged their children to considerable diligence. 1094. There was a power of dismissing boys, I suppose, in the event of their misconduct ? — Yes ; but that was very rarely exercised — almost never. 1095. The disadvantage with the boys of the lower class was, that they were less willing to learn or to be amenable to discipline than those whose relations were anxious that they should be raised in the world ? — Yes. 1096. Did you find that in the hospital there was more labour required on the part of the teacher to produce average educational results than would have been required in an ordinary school^ — Yes ; I should almost say double the amount of labour to produce the same educational results that are produced in a public school. 1097. Have you had experience in other schools? — Yes; I had ex- perience in a large public school before I entered upon duty in the hospital. 1098. What was your former experience? — It was in one of the parish schools in Aberdeenshire, with nearly 300 pupils attending it. The amount of work got out of the boys there was nearly double what was got out of hospital boys. 1099. In what proportions in the hospital were the boys belonging to the poorer classes and those in better circumstances ? — Perhaps about one half. Towards the latter years of the hospital the governors began to select a better class, seeing that they were taking more advantage of the education, and generally they selected orphans and the sons of widows. 1100. But the difficulty you have mentioned in producing educational results applies to all? — Yes, generally to all ; but we often got some of them induced to do a good deal of optional work. When I got them stimulated to do that, I found it more valuable than the class work; and the parents took more interest — at least the parents of the better class — in co-operating with me in that. 1101. Did you find that when the boys were allowed to see more of the outer world, your difficulties in teaching diminished? Were you able 104 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. George to do more with them then, than when they were only allowed to visit their ? llvi e - families at long intervals of time? — Yes; they seemed to pick up a good deal of knowledge by the wayside. I may say, at least, they were begin- ning to do that. However, we had only one year of that arrangement ; but I am satisfied that it would have been a very great improvement on the ordinary hospital system if it had been carried on for years. 1102. I suppose one of the great disadvantages you found in the hospital system was that the boys did not acquire a knowledge of common things, and an interest in ordinary life? — Yes; and when they entered on business, they usually acted almost like machines. They could do little unless it was brought directly under their notice. 1103. Does that observation apply to the boys who entered at the later age as well as to the younger ones ? — It applies to them all generally, but more to those who entered at the early age than at the later. 1104. Have you had opportunities of following the career of many of the boys? — Yes ; I have watched them for several years, and kept an account of how they were getting on, and I often visited them when they were engaged at work. 1105. Was the fact of their deficiency communicated to you by their masters? — Yes, by their masters and employers. There were exceptions; but, as a rule, that was the result of what was stated to me. 1106. Did the children of the working classes usually return to the occupations of their relations, or were they put out in trade, or in a better position ? — Perhaps a little better ; but very often they lapsed again, and got dissatisfied with their home comforts, and many boys of that class went off to sea. They had been taken out of their uncomfortable homes, and kept for perhaps six or seven years in the comforts of the hospital, and then sent back, probably to the same rooms which they had occupied before. They became dissatisfied, and they frequently ran off to sea as soon as they were able. I found also that a number of them enlisted in the army. 1107. In Stewart's Hospital, had you any stimulants in the way of bursaries or competitions? — No; and that was rather a pity, because when any very bright or distinguished boy did appear, we had no oppor- tunity of sending him on to the University. 1108. Then you laboured under special disadvantages in that respect? —Yes. 1109. Was there any industrial training at the hospital? — No; except that the boys did a good deal of work about the grounds. The grounds were very well kept, and a skilful gardener gave them a good deal of in- teresting knowledge about plants. 1110. What generally were the occupations of the boys out of school hours? — It was most difficult, as a rule, to get them to play. I was very often met with the complaint that they had nothing to play at. They had not the resources of boys generally, and they hung about the fire, and were rather sleepily inclined. That was especially the case in the winter season. 1111. Of course you had a playground? — They had abundance of playground, and we found that the grounds were a considerable attrac- tion in the summer season in the way of working. 1112. Were the boys supplied with means for amusing themselves? — Yes; with means for games, such as football and cricket. We used every means to induce them to play, but the feeling seemed to be that everything must be done for them. 1113. Did one or more teachers accompany them to the playground? — We had at first a warder constantly amongst them ; but I found that MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 105 that was injurious, because whenever he was withdrawn or out of sight, Mr. Georgo they thought they were under the necessity of doing some mischief. I Ogiivie. therefore afterwards left them more to their own resources, and to look after themselves, while a teacher went amongst them from time to time to see what was going on. We found that their conduct improved much after there was less supervision, and when we put more confidence in them. 1114. Did the teachers all reside in the establishment? — I did not; I had a house in the grounds, but there were two resident masters in the hospital. 1115. They are not now there? — No. 1116. What did your establishment consist of ? — Myself, two resident masters, and some visiting masters for drawing and dancing and some of the other extra branches ; also a matron and servants. 1117. Was there anything in the diet and mode of living of the boys that could account for their apathy? — There was a sameness in the diet that was not at all pleasant to the boys. 1118. But they were well fed and healthy? — Yes; but still they did not show that robust appearance which you will often see in boys of the same age. I often thought that that was to be accounted for by the fact that most of them had lost their parents at an early age, and had, as it were, inherited disease. 1119. That is to say, that their parents had died comparatively young from some hereditary disease? — Yes. 1120. Mr. Parker. — But no boy was allowed to be admitted who was known to have disease of any kind? — No. They underwent an examina- tion by the doctor ; but still at that time the disease might not have been developed. 1121. The Chairman. — They might have a weakness of constitution, without any developed disease? — Yes; and without being perceptible at that age. 1122. However, you thought the uniformity of diet was disagreeable? —Yes. 1123. With regard to the constant supervision, do you apply that to the warder chiefly, or generally to the masters ? — I have already said that at first we found that the constant supervision by the warder was in- jurious to the boys, and had a bad influence ; and we found it much more desirable to leave them more to themselves, with a teacher from time to time moving about to see what was doing, but at the same time not acting as a spy. 1124. Did the warder sleep in the room with the boys? — Yes; but I don't know if that was an advantage. I think it would have been better not to have had him in the bedroom. 1125. How many boys slept together? — About ten in one dormitory. The apartment of one of the teachers was close beside them, and he often visited the dormitories. 1126. You said you followed the occupations of the boys in after life. Can you state in what proportions they went to business, or employed in trade or in manual labour? — About one half, perhaps, would go into shops as shopkeepers, and a few into offices. Some of the better boys would go into architects' and lawyers' offices. 1127. Did you take pains to get them situations? — Yes; I got situations for almost the whole of them as they left. 1128. There was no indisposition on the part of employers to receive them because they were hospital boys? — No; I rather found towards the close of my experience that we had many demands for boys. When 106 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George any of them did do well, employers were ready to take others into their Ogiivie. service. 1129. I believe you approve very much of the change which has been made in Stewart's Hospital ? — I do. 1130. Are you there now? — No; I have removed from it to George Watson's. 1131. Then you have not had an opportunity of judging of the effect of the change with regard to Stewart's Hospital ? — No, not with regard to that hospital. 1132. But the principle of the change is the same as that which has taken place in Watson's ? — Yes. 1133. And you decidedly approve of the change of system which has been adopted by the Merchant Company with respect to Stewart's Hospital, as well as to the other? — Certainly. The change on the foundationers has been very marked, I am told. 1134. Although it was possible to remedy some of the evils which attach to the hospital system, is it your opinion that on the whole it has been very beneficial for the children to be put in a new position, where they can mix with others who are not boarded in the establishment ? — Certainly. The progress now made, compared with what it was, is very marked. There is a selfishness about hospital boys which it is most difficult to eradicate, and I believe these changes will do very much to- wards removing that evil. 1135. Had you any knowledge of George Watson's Hospital before the change? — I had a little, but not much. It was under the same directors as Stewart's. 113G. But you had some opportunity of judging of George Watson's Hospital before ? — Yes. I used to visit it from time to time, and see a good deal of the head master. 1137. Was Stewart's Hospital examined from time to time by persons unconnected with the establishment ? — Yes. Towards the latter years it was examined yearly. Mr. Laurie examined it ; and before that it was reported upon by one of the Government inspectors, Mr. Gordon. 1138. With regard to George Watson's College, you are at present head master of it ? — Yes. 1139. It is an establishment on a large scale? — Yes ; it is a large day school. 1140. What is the present number of foundationers upon it? — 55 foundationers and 24 free scholars. 1141. The Earl of JRosebery.—sThe foundationers are boarders ? — They are boarded throughout the town. 1142. But in fact all the scholars are day scholars? — Yes. 1143. The Chairman. — With regard to the foundationers, a certain proportion are boarded in an establishment for the purpose? — Yes. There is what is called a 'home,' where about 17 of the foundationers are boarded under the care of the governors, with a matron and resident teacher. The other foundationers reside with their parents or near rela- tives, who receive board for them. 1144. The change that has been carried out in George Watson's is to have a large number of day scholars mixed with the foundationers? — Yes. 1145. From your observation, do you consider that that has had a beneficial effect upon them ? — Yes. Previously there were day pupils admitted to the hospital along with the boys to receive education, but their numbers never exceeded 30, and their influence was counteracted by the foundationers, whose numbers were considerably greater. But now MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 107 the foundationers are quite swamped, so far as numbers are concerned. Mr. George They are a very small proportion of the pupils, and their influence so far °g ilvie - as combination goes is entirely gone. 1146. I believe the principle of selection of the foundationers is the same as before, with the exception that it is not confined to burgesses? — Burgesses and those of special names have no preference ; the other claims remain as before. 1147. Are there any foundationers who are not children or grand- children of members of the Company? — Yes. The sons of merchant burgesses and guild brothers, though not members of the Company, are still admitted. 1148. Are any of the foundationers admitted by competition? — Yes; not less than one-fourth of the foundationers are admitted by competition. 1149. Has that not been put in force yet? — Yes, it has been carried out for the last two years. 1150. Is the admission to all the world? — The admission by compe- tition is open to the pnpils attending the Merchant Company schools. 1151. It is not confined to inhabitants of Edinburgh ? — No. 1152. Have you observed the educational effect of these changes upon the foundationers with regard to their position in their classes ? — Yes. The foundationers in the first session we found to be very troublesome ; but during the second session (the older boys having left) there was a marked improvement in every way. 1153. When they were troublesome, was it from a want of aptness or from unwillingness to learn? — It was rather from unwillingness. They were so far behind that really there seemed little hope of making anything of them. 1154. Are the younger boys taking a fair place in their classes ? — Yes. They are giving us great satisfaction on the whole, and doing very well. I am satisfied the change has done an immense deal of good for the foundationers. 1155. I suppose the bursaries connected with the school have helped you to a considerable extent ? — Yes. 1156. You consider that has had a very beneficial effect? — Yes. 1157. With regard to the boarding out of the foundationers, those who are not at the ' home' are boarded with their parents or near relatives as far as possible ? — Yes. 1158. And some with strangers ? — I believe there are none boarded with strangers at present. Those boarded with their parents, or with aunts or uncles, seem to be very well attended to in every way, and I think there could be no improvement made upon that arrangement. 1159. Are they for the most part boarded in the immediate neighbour- hood of the school ? — Yes ; at least within a reasonable distance of the school. 1160. Within a reasonable easy walk of the school? — Yes. 1161. I think you said that 17 were in the 'home?' — Yes. They are chiefly orphans without any relatives, or whose relatives do not reside in Edinburgh ; and I think it is better that they should be boarded in the ' home' than boarded with strangers, who generally wish to make something by them, and who have not the same interest in them as near relatives have. 1162. In whose charge is the 'home?' — It is under the charge of a matron and resident master, and I visit it from time to time. 1163. There is no instruction carried on in the ' home ?' — Only the pre- paration in the evening of lessons for school. The foundationers boarded there come to school as other boys do. 108 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George 1164. Do they prepare their lessons in the evening under the eye of a Ogiivie. mas ter at the ' home V — Yes. He sees that they prepare their lessons, and probably helps them. The master of the 4 home ' also teaches in the school. 1 165. What supervision is exercised over those who are boarded other- wise than at the 'home?' Are they visited by any one? — They are visited by the matron, who sees that their home comforts are attended to. 1166. Do you mean that the matron of the 'home' visits those who are boarded elsewhere ? — Yes, she visits all the foundationers who are boarded out, and sees that everything is comfortable for them, and that their clothing is right. 1167. Do the Committee of Management of the school also visit them? — The convener of the Education Committee visits them from time to time. 1168. Mr. Ramsay. — Do the boys who reside in the 'home,' and the preparation of whose lessons is superintended by a master, excel the other boys in the school? — Not as a rule, but they keep a very fair place. None of the foundationers by merit, who are our best pupils, are at present in the 1 home.' 1169. But they are not better than others? — No, not better. Their lessons are so explained that they do not require assistance. All that the resident master requires to do is to see that they spend a fair time at their lessons. 1170. The Chairman. — Do those who have parents remain at the 4 home' on Sundays? — A few go out, but perhaps one half remain in, having no parents to take them out. The other half go occasionally to see some friends on the Saturday, but they do not go out over the Sunday. 1171. Do they go to church with the matron? — Yes, with the matron and master. 1172. Of whom does the Committee of Management consist? — Of the governors. 1173. The whole body of the governors ? — There is what is called the Schemes Committee, which consists of the conveners from the various institutions under the Merchant Company, the treasurer and master of the Company, and one or two others, who are deputed by the governors to take the management and report to them. 1174. Who is the present convener? — Mr. Purdie is convener, and Mr. Clapperton is the chairman. 1175. Is he the chairman of the whole Company? — Yes. 1176. You mentioned the conveners : who were they? — Each institu- tion has a convener of its Education Committee. There are four con- veners, who, along with the chairman and the treasurer of the Merchant Company, and one or two others, constitute the Schemes Committee. There is a body of governors of fourteen from the Merchant Company, and five from the Town Council, and one clergyman. 1177. But is there not a special committee which personally super- intends your school? — Yes; the Education Committee. 1178. Is the school visited by the convener alone, or by the whole body of governors? — The convener frequently visits the school; the other governors in rotation. 1179. In the event of any complaint being made, does it rest with the convener to look into it ? — Yes. Anything that I have to bring before the governors I bring under his notice in the first instance. 1180. But if the parent of any of the children had any complaint to make, would he address it to him ? — He would generally address it to me, and he might also address a letter to the convener, and also to the chair- man or any governor. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 109 1181. Mr. Ramsay. — With reference to the boys who are residing in Mr. Georga the 4 home,' are they placed there because they have no relatives with Q gllv1 6, whom they could be boarded? — Yes. There may be some cases where their parents are alive, but they are not residing in Edinburgh. 1182. I understood you to indicate an opinion that they would be better to be placed under relatives than in the 4 home?' — Yes; but in the case of those who have relatives, these relatives are not residing in Edin- burgh, and therefore the boys are taken into the ' home.' 1183. And also of boys having relatives who refuse to take them? — There might be a few cases of that kind too. 1184. Do the governors make inquiry to ascertain whether the relatives of any of the boys would be willing to receive them before they are placed in the 4 home ?' — Yes. There are none of the relatives who are forced to take them unless they are quite willing, but they are generally anxious to have them. 1185. The Chairman. — Will you describe the kind of education that is given at the college? — We have an elementary, a junior, and a senior department, the school being divided into three large departments. In the elementary department the pupils are quite young, being from six to nine years of age ; in the junior department they are from nine to thirteen ; and in the senior department, from thirteen to sixteen or seven- teen. The classes of the two younger departments are each under one master. They are not moved from master to master. We consider that a teacher is able to give instruction in the various branches to a boy under twelve years of age. At twelve the pupils pass into the senior depart- ment, and go from master to master, having one master for every branch, and they branch off at that age either to the commercial or classical side, according to the wish of the parent. 1186. There is a certain curriculum which they must adopt? — Yes. 1187. What is the number of boys who are pupils in the school at present?— 1160. 1188. What proportion of them are in the lower, and what proportion in the upper department in the school? — The younger department is the fuller in the meantime. The school has been opened so recently, that we don't wish to introduce old boys unless they are well prepared. We find that the majority are in the middle division or junior department ; perhaps there will be nearly 600 there alone. 1189. What is the practice with regard to admission? — The pupils are admitted by examination, graduated according to their age. 1190. But there is no preference ? — There is no preference. 1191. Have you more applications for admission than you have room for? — No. We have rejected a good many applicants, chiefly boys above twelve years of age, whose education was deficient. 1192. But you could take in even more than you have at present ? — Yes. We have withdrawn the elementary pupils, numbering 230 or 240, from the main building, and placed them in a different building, which has added greatly to our convenience in the large school, so that we can now accommodate considerably more than we have. 1193. Is the elementary building near the other ? — It is within a few yards of it, but it is surrounded by its own private playground, which is enclosed by walls, and the young boys do not come into contact with the old boys at all. They are quite separate in every way, and have every convenience for play within their own ground. 1194. What classes in society are the boys drawn from? — I should say that they are drawn from the middle class as a rule. They include the sons of merchants, and also a good many sons of physicians and 110 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George clergymen. There are several sons of officers, and a number of sons of OgUvie. c i er k s i n the Register House and Post Office, and a good many widows' sons who are tolerably well off and comfortable, but still with limited incomes. 1195. I suppose there are very few from the working class ? — There are not many. 1196. The object of the institution is to provide an education for something above the working class ? — Yes ; an education of the best kind for the middle classes. In the case of the boys of the lowest status that we have, the parents are paying the fees with considerable difficulty, and the boys see that, and are perhaps the most promising pupils in the school. Instead of producing an injurious influence on the class above them, they are rather acting upon them beneficially, — improving them, I may say, educationally as well as morally. 1197. I suppose you mean that the boys from the working class who enter the school are those who are ambitious ? — Yes ; and their parents are ambitious that they should have a good education. I have observed several of these boys doing extremely well, and becoming intimate friends of boys of a very different status in society. 1198. The two departments into which they branch — the commercial and the classical, or that which prepares them for the University — are they in about equal proportions ? — They are about equally divided. 1199. Do you prepare boys to go direct to the University ? — Yes; but we have not been long enough in existence to send many yet. We sent 11 up this year to matriculate iu the first class, and one in the second. I think there is a disposition to go away from school to the University too soon. 1200. How do you account for that? — I suppose it is from being admitted there without any entrance examination. Of course there is a desire among boys to leave school and be students, as it were, at the University ; and I believe that is the case when they would be much better to remain another year at school. 1201. Therefore you would wish that there was an entrance examina- tion to the University ? — Yes. That would tend to keep the boys longer at school, and send them better prepared to the University. 1202. Do the boys who compete for bursaries pass a good examina- tion in your opinion ? — Yes ; they are the best pupils we have, and quite prepared for joining the University. 1203. Do they show a good amount of scholastic acquirement ? —Yes. 1204. How are they examined, — is it by yourself and the other masters ? — Yes ; they are examined regularly by myself and the other masters. 1205. For the bursaries ? — No. It is a party altogether unconnected with the school who examines for the bursaries and the foundations. 1206. But I suppose you make an examination of the boys yourself at certain times % — Yes. Once a quarter there are written examinations given to all the school above the elementary department. 1207. What is your division of school time in the year ? — There are four quarters in the session, which makes the examinations once every ten weeks. 1208. When is the vacation? — In August and September. There are two months of vacation then, and about a week at Christmas, and a week in the end of April. 1209. Do you think that any of the younger boys are over-stimulated by the competition for bursaries? — We have had cases of boys breaking MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. Ill down in health, as in all schools. Whether this was to be ascribed to Mr. George that cause in any case I am not aware. Ogiivie. 1210. I suppose your large numbers give you more facilities for dividing the boys into classes than would be the case in a smaller school? — Yes. We have a number of classes co-ordinate or parallel, and we find that is very beneficial in stimulating both the pupils and the masters. 1211. Do you mean that there is one class higher than another? — No. It may be called several sections of the same class under different masters. The advantage both to teacher and pupil is, that we may take perhaps 200 pupils who are all about the same age, and who have gone over the same work, and give them the same examination paper ; and we find that there is a great anxiety to see what position the pupils of the different classes occupy among the 200. 1212. That is a test for the masters as well as for the pupils ? — Yes ; indeed I may say that the master is as anxious about the result of the examination as the pupils. 1213. Are these sections divided on any principle? — Yes. Merit is the ruling principle. Some of them are a little older than others. We often find boys with a year of difference in age, who are at the same stage educationally. 1214. I suppose you don't consider that the numbers in the school are too large for your superintendence? — No. I find that when once the work is fully set agoing, and everything established, I can undertake it quite well ; but I require an assistant constantly with me to aid me in the superintendence. 1215. Does he teach? — He teaches a little ; but I require him more to assist me with the examinations and with the correspondence. 1216. You don't undertake a class? — No. I occasionally take a class, but not regularly. 1217. You superintend the examinations ? — Yes. 1218. Are they conducted by written papers? — Yes, once a quarter by written papers; and I frequently examine orally, with the view of keeping the system uniform throughout the whole school. 1219. Have you to visit the different classes? — I spend at least three or four hours a day in visiting the classes. 1220. Do you consider that with these numbers in your school, the pupils have an advantage over the same body of pupils if they were divided into a variety of small private schools ? — I think it is better to have the advantage of numbers in classifying, so that each class may consist of pupils as nearly as possible on a par with each other ; and it is also an advantage to be able to have co-ordinate classes. 1221. Have you had any difficulty in point of discipline in managing the boys?— No. 1222. What means have you of enforcing discipline? — The classes are comparatively so small, being limited to about 40 pupils, that there is little difficulty in maintaining order during class hours. We have very seldom anything approaching to corporal punishment, except in the very young classes, and it is very trifling ; but with the senior boys the punishment is usually detention in the school or a pcena. 1223. Has the teacher the power of inflicting corporal punishment? — He has the power, but it is very seldom resorted to. 1224. Is it reported to you in every case where corporal punishment is inflicted ? — If there is anything of importance it is always reported to me. 1225. Is there no record kept of the punishments in each class? — No, unless it be something severe, and then it is reported to me. 112 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George 1226. But there may be small punishments inflicted without being re- Ogiivie. p 0r ted to you ? — There may, but not to any extent ; for the teacher, when he thinks that anything is necessary beyond very trifling punishment, re- ports the case to me. 1227. Mr. Parker. — What is the poena? — It may be translating a chapter of Latin or writing out a verb. 1228. Is that punishment reported to you ? — Not always. 1229. The Earl of Rosebery. — You do not give lines as a poena? — I don't think there is much of that. We rather give them something that will be useful to them. 1230. Mr. Ramsay. — Do the teachers keep a record of these punish- ments ? — Yes. 1231. Then, when any boy is punished, there is a record kept of that, however trifling the punishment may be ? — No ; but in the case of a severe punishment it is reported to me. 1232. Who is the judge of what is severe? — Myself. 1233. But how do you know if the teacher does not communicate it to you ? — He has got direct instructions to communicate with me if there is anything of the kind ; and I have never had any reason to believe that the teachers are not in the practice of doing so. 1234. You have perfect confidence in the masters? — Yes. 1235. And your knowledge of the punishments that are inflicted de- pends entirely upon that ? — Yes. If I find that a master has been going beyond what I consider proper, he is then required to keep a written re- cord of every punishment he inflicts. He has, as it were, lost my con- fidence. 1236. Have you considered how far it would be desirable to have a re- cord of all punishments ? — The teacher would rather wish to be left more to his own discretion, than to have, as it were, to report everything that he does. 1237. The Chairman. — You have the appointment of the masters? — Yes. 1238. And their dismissal ? — Yes. 1239. You "are vested with full authority by the managers in that re- spect ? — Yes ; I am quite uncontrolled with regard to the masters in every way. 1240. With regard to the employment of the boys out of school hours, you said you had a playground ? — Yes. 1241. But the boys are not all in the playground at the same time? — No ; we must arrange to dismiss them at different times. Perhaps one- fifth of them would be in the playground at one time. 1242. That is about 200 at a time?— Yes. 1243. Does the playground give ample room for that number? — Yes, quite sufficient ; but it is only in the middle of the day that they have any lengthened interval. They have half an hour then, and that is the only time they can use the playground. The intervals are so short during school hours, that they have not much time for being in the playground. 1244. When they are kept in by way of punishment, is that by being kept from the playground ? — Yes ; the boy is kept in during the interval when he should go to the playground, and also occasionally after the school is dismissed. 1245. You mean that he is kept from home? — Yes; he does not get home quite so early. 1246. In the first case he loses the advantage of the healthful exercise which he would otherwise have in the playground? — Yes; he gets out a few minutes for lunch, but the rest of the time is taken up in the school. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 113 1247. Is the half-hour in the middle of the day intended for lunch as Mr. Georgo well as for play 1— Yes. Ogiivie. 1248. How many hours are the boys at work ? — From nine till three the senior boys, and some of the classes from nine till four. The hours are long enough — perhaps fully long. The younger pupils have shorter hours. 1249. And there is only half an hour of an interval? — Yes; with an interval of perhaps ten minutes twice, — in the forenoon, and in the afternoon. 1250. But the only time when they have a whole half-hour is in the middle of the day ? — Yes. 1251. I suppose half an hour is not enough for them to enter upon any games ! — No ; but they have the Saturday free for their games. They have a field for cricket and football, and they make their arrange- ments to go there on Saturdays. 1252. Do they leave school earlier on Saturdays? — It is an entire holiday. 1253. Do the boys come to the playground on that day? — Not to the playground beside the school. They go then to a field which' has been rented by the governors for games such as cricket and football. It is only the seniors that are allowed to take advantage of the field. 1254. Mr. Ramsay. — What time would a boy of average talent require after school hours for the preparation of his lessons for the following day ? — For boys below eleven an hour is amply sufficient; for boys below thirteen, an hour and a half ; and above that, two hours. When they go beyond or under that, there must be something wrong. 1255. The Chairman. — Is any arrangement made for a playground for the boys who are boarded? — Yes, they go to the field. They have also got a playground about the house ; and besides, they are within perhaps a hundred yards of the Links. 1256. What arrangements are made for the religious education of the boys ? — We have that in the morning for the whole school. 1257. Do you mean prayers ? — Yes ; prayers in every class, and the reading of the Scriptures. 1258. In each separate class? — Yes; every master begins the day with prayer. 1259. When is the Scripture lesson given? — Immediately after the opening. 1260. Mr. Ramsay. — Is there any Catechism taught ? — No. 1261. The Chairman. — Do the boys read at the Scripture lesson ? — Yes ; and the teachers examine them in order to see that they know what they have been reading about, but without entering into any doctrinal matters. 1262. I suppose the reading is chiefly in the New Testament? — Yes; and in the historical parts of the Old Testament. 1263. Hare any objections ever been made to that by any of the parents of the children? — We have a few Roman Catholics in the school, and some Jews, who don't wish to take the Scripture lessons. 1264. Are they allowed to absent themselves ? — They are allowed ; but the parents uniformly send them, and the boys are allowed to go on with some other work in the class-room while the Scripture lesson is being taught. 1265. The Earl of Rosebery. — Are the Jews present at the morning prayers ? — They are allowed to come in after the prayer is over. 1266. None of them come in when it is going on? — A.1 firs! they did not, but now they come in with the rest of the pupils, and are present during the prayer. H / 114 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George 1267. Do the Roman Catholics join in morning prayers? — They are Ogiivie. present. 1268. The Chairman. — Is there any rule on that subject in the printed regulations of the college? — I have been instructed by the governors to see that the classes are opened with prayer and that the Scriptures are taught, but to allow parents who object to our religious instruction to withdraw their sons from the Scripture class. 1269. It is not intimated to the parents that the boys are to have that education ? — No ; but the parents generally intimate to me, when the boys are examined, if they object to it. 1270. Then you only know the difficulty when it is stated to you ? — Only then. 1271. And although there are no printed rules, you are authorized by the governors to use that discretion ? — Yes. I got instructions not to have the Assembly Shorter Catechism taught, because there were some objections to it. 1272. And you use your authority with the masters generally in directing their course of Scripture reading ? — Yes. I recommend them to select particular passages, and I generally arrange what lessons they are to give ; and I frequently examine a class myself in the morning, taking the classes in rotation. 1273. Does that form part of the quarterly examination? — No, nor for bursaries or foundations. We use the Scriptures more, I may say, as a devotional exercise than as lessons. 1274. In saying prayers, are the whole of the boys together or in separate classes? — In separate classes. There is not a room large enough for them all to be taken together. Each master opens his own class with prayer. 1275. Do you also conclude with prayer ? — In some of the younger classes we do. 1276. Have you any infant class ? — Not an infant class, but we have an elementary class. The separate house is now filled with elementary pupils, from six to eight years of age. 1277. These are the youngest children who come to the school to be taught?— Yes. 1278. Mr. Ramsay. — Did you say that the Catechism had been used at one time ? — It had been used among the foundationers before the change took place. 1279. What was the Catechism which was used ? — The Assembly Shorter Catechism. 1280. From what parties had the objections come that led to the dis- continuance of the Shorter Catechism? — From various parties, chiefly from parents who were not Presbyterians ; and we found there were so many different sects, that it was considered desirable to teach no Catechism. 1281. The Earl of Rosebery. — I suppose it is your wish to preserve a perfectly unsectarian method of teaching on all subjects ? — Certainly. 1282. Has any objection ever been taken on religious grounds to any part of the secular instruction in the school ? — No. 1283. Do you find it easy to teach history, for example, without any reference to religion? — There is certainly a little difficulty there. For instance, with reference to Roman Catholic pupils, we have some difficulty where the history speaks strongly against the Roman Catholics ; but I in- structed the master that the history should be taught without indicating an opinion of a religious nature on the one side or the other. 1284. You endeavour to impress upon them that it was six of the one and half a dozen of the other ? — No, but to teach the facts without com- MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 115 ment. Of course, the teacher, knowing that he has got Roman Catholic Mr. George pupils in his class, does not require to call their strong attention to the 0gllvi6, passages against them. 1285. Do the Roman Catholic children, as a matter of fact, attend at the Scripture lesson? — They sit in the class-room while the Scripture lesson is going on. 1286. But none of them join in it? — Some do. 1287. How many Jews have you in the school? — Two at present. 1288. Have you always had a few ? — There has always been one or two ; and we have various other sects, such as Positivists. 1289. A Positivist child? — His parent announced him as such, and objected to the Scriptures. 1290. I suppose the objection was to his receiving any religion at all? —Yes. 1291. Does such a child feel any difficulty in mixing with children of other religions at the school? — No. The boys play together, and they usually look upon each other in no other light than as fellow- scholars. 1292. In fact the sectarian difficulty does not make itself felt in the playground ? — No. Some of these sectaries are among the most popular boys in the school. 1293. Are the Jews popular? — Yes. 1294. Mr. Ramsay. — Are any of your teachers Roman Catholics? — No. 1295. Is there any rule on that subject? — In the old hospital it was a rule that the teachers must be Protestants ; but since the change, I have got no instructions on the matter. 1296. But they do not belong to any particular denomination? — No. They belong to the Episcopal Church, or to the Established Church, or the Free Church, or the U. P. Church. 1297. The Chairman. — You have teachers of all the denominations? — Yes, of all these denominations. 1298. The Earl of Rosebery. — Can you tell us the different sects to which the masters of the college belong ? — They belong to different Protestant sects. 1299. Are they all Presbyterians ? — No ; some of them belong to the Church of England. 1300. You have no Roman Catholics ? — No. 1301. Have you Unitarians? — No. 1302. Sir William Stirling Maxwell. — Do I understand you to say that you had a manual of history in which the differences between Protestants and Catholics were so modified as to be unlikely to give offence to either party? — No. The manual we have speaks rather strongly against the Roman Catholics. 1303. You have not got an impartial manual? — No. 1304. The Earl of Rosebery. — But the teachers manage to place the facts of history before the children in such a way as not to cause any irritation ? — Yes. 1305. Do you find that your system of religious instruction works well? — Very well. There is no feeling against it by the different Pro- testant sects who attend the school. 1306. The Chairman. — Do you try to encourage children of all denomi- nations to come to you ? — Yes. And we try to give no dissatisfaction so far as our teaching of the Scriptures is concerned. 1307. The Earl of Rosebery. — Do you suppose that any objections would be likely to arise on the part of the governors or of the parents of the children if you were to exclude the religious instruction which you now 116 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. .George give, and to make it a purely secular school ? — I do not think there would Ogiivie. anv cause for urging or asking that to be done. 1308. But do you think there would be any objections on the part of the parents or governors to that being done? — I think the parents generally approve of the present system, and the governors have given instruction that it be carried out. 1309. But do you suppose there would be any objections if the present system, so far as regards religion, was altered ? — I think there would be objections if we were to abolish all religious instruction. I do not think such a school would stand without religious instruction. 1310. How many receive religious instruction at present ? — The whole school, with the exceptions I have mentioned. 1311. What are the exceptions? — Perhaps about a dozen or so, not more. 1312. But as regards the separate religious instruction, you are in- clined to say that it works Avell? — Yes. 1313. And that the boys are perfectly united in play hours in all respects ? — Yes ; the fact of their religious difference has no tendency at all to separate them on the playground. 1314. Then you think it makes no difference whatever? — No difference whatever, so far as it has come under my notice. 1315. Mr. Parker. — Do the masters take an interest in giving religious instruction? — Yes; there are numbers of the boys who, if they were not to get that instruction at the school, would get little of such instruction anywhere else. 1316. Do you think many of the boys could not get such instruc- tion either from their parents or their ministers? — I fear many would not. 1317. Do you think the religious instruction which you give has any effect upon the boys' character as well as upon their information? — I think religious instruction must have such an effect if it is well taught to the child. 1318. If the masters generally were consulted, do you think they would prefer to continue to give religious instruction, or to be relieved from it ? — I am scarcely prepared to say. My orders from the governors being imperative, I do not enter on the matter with the teachers. 1319. Giving your own opinion only, would you prefer to have the religious instruction under the master of the school? — Yes, I prefer to have it in the school. 1320. Do you consider that it contributes to maintain discipline in the school ? — Yes, I am satisfied that it does. 1321. And it has really an effect in forming the character of the boys ? —Yes. 1322. The Earl of Rosebery. — Do you think there would be any objec- tions on the part of the parents of any of the boys to the re-introduction of the Shorter Catechism ? — Yes, I believe there would be objections on the part of several of the parents. 1323. Do you suppose they would withdraw their children in conse- quence? — They would if they were compelled to learn the Shorter Cate- chism, or any Catechism. 1324. Mr. Ramsay. — Do you know any school in which they are compelled to learn the Shorter Catechism ? — In the parochial schools. 1325. The Earl of Rosebery. — Would they consider it a hardship if the Shorter Catechism were taught at such hours as to make the compulsory absence of their children inconvenient ? Suppose the Shorter Catechism were taught in the middle of the day, and the children had to go away at MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 117 that time, would there be any objections to that ? — It would result in the Mr. George children losing the best part of the day. OgUvie. 1326. Mr. Parker. — In what building are George Watson's college schools conducted? — In what used to be called the Merchant Maidens' Hospital, at the foot of Archibald Place. 1327. It was built for girls? — It was built as an hospital for girls, where they both received education and were maintained. 1328. Was it a convenient building for that purpose? — Yes. 1329. On what ground was it taken from the girls and given to the boys? — The old building of George Watson's Hospital was not well adapted for a school ; and a strong public desire having been expressed that the new Infirmary should be built on the grounds of Watson's Hospital, that hospital was accordingly sold to the Infirmary, and the present building, which is very near the former place, was bought for the boys' school. 1330. But that entailed the turning out of the girls? — Yes ; but the governors bought another place, and one more convenient for the girls, in Queen Street for less money than they received for the hospital. It was also thought desirable that the girls' school should be removed from the neighbourhood of the Infirmary, which so many students visit. 1331. When you say they bought the Merchant Maidens' Hospital, do you mean they bought it from themselves, or did one set of trustees buy it from another? — It was bought from a different trust. Watson's go- vernors bought the Merchant Maiden Hospital from its governors, and the Merchant Maiden Hospital governors bought the new premises in Queen Street from a private party. 1332. Then the whole pecuniary advantage which was justly due when the building was purchased went to the benefit of the girls? — Yes; and there was also a considerable advantage on the side of the boys between the price at which the governors sold the old hospital for the Infirmary, and that at which they bought the Merchant Maidens' Hospital. 1333. Do you think that £28 is not rather a high estimate for the board of a boy ? — I do not think so, at the present rate of provisions ; I do not see how any party can board boys for less. 1334. Is that board not suited for a somewhat higher class of society ? —No. 1335. It is not the most economical ? — Boys might be boarded for less, but such board could not be suitable. 1336. Then you think that sum is appropriate to their circumstances ? — It is not by any means too high. 1337. It is stated in the schedule that in the competitive examination for entrants there is no reference to the circumstances of the boys : does that mean that boys are admitted who are not of necessitous families ? — Yes, as day pupils. 1338. But not to the foundation ? — Not to the foundation when they belong to the preference class. 1339. Is the admission to the foundation competitive? — Not less than one-fourth of the admissions must be by competition, and the others may be by presentation. 1340. Then three-fourths of them are admitted without competition? — Three-fourths may be thus admitted, but not necessarily. All must be fairly advanced for their years, and the best of the candidates are selected after examination. 1341. Is that examination as high, in your opinion, as it ought to be? — I think so. 1342. But you think it a great evil to admit boys whose education has been entirely neglected ? — Yes ; but that is not done now. 118 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. George 1343. Is that especially so when they are admitted at an advanced OgiWie. age There was no educational entrance examination. 1908. What is the nature of the examination at present ? — I conduct it myself. I ask them to read and spell, and answer a few questions in history, and geography, and grammar ; and I can very soon tell whether they are intelligent, and fairly educated according to their years, and capable of taking up the instruction which we are prepared to give them. 1909. Are they examined in arithmetic? — Yes; I also put a few questions to them in arithmetic. 1910. Are these examinations conducted entirely by yourself? — Yes. 1911. At what age are the girls admitted? — They must be of the age of nine, and under that of sixteen. Formerly they were admitted as early as seven ; but those who came in young did not do so well as the others, and hence the change under the new system. 1912. Do those who are admitted by competition vary in age? — There is one foundation for girls under twelve, another for girls under fourteen, another for girls under sixteen ; and this year there is to be one for those under seventeen. 1913. Are they admitted to the foundations at these ages ? — Yes. 1914. There is no competition under the age of twelve? — There is one competition for a foundation by those under the age of twelve. Any of the girls in the school under that age may compete for it. MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. 159 1915. But I suppose the girls under the age of twelve who come David forward are mostly nearly that age ? — Yes. We have them of various ages p -57 de ' competing, but, as a matter of course, those who are older have a better sq * chance. 1916. With regard to those who have been admitted without competi- tion, and who have to undergo an examination, have any been rejected on the ground of want of proficiency ? — The governors ask me to examine all the candidates, and I give in a report, and they are greatly influenced by my report in choosing from among the candidates. 1917. I suppose they select a certain number?— They select a certain number from those who apply. 1918. Are the governors guided by other considerations than your report in selecting those to be admitted ? — They are guided by other considerations. 1919. Is your report merely as to the different degrees of qualification of applicants, or do you give an opinion as to any of them being unfit to enter at that age? — I decidedly give an opinion as to whether it would be advisable to take them or not. 1920. Are any rejected on that ground ? — I am not present when they are selected, but I have no doubt my report has a great influence. 1921. But you don't know of any who have been admitted notwith- standing your report ? — None have been admitted regarding whom I have reported unfavourably. 1922. With regard to the other pupils in the institution, are they of the same class as the foundationers ? — They are of very much the same class. They are drawn almost exclusively from the middle class. 1923. The boarding-house, I understand, is entirely detached from the school ?— Yes. 1924". Have the girls any lessons to perform in the boarding-house f — They have their lessons to prepare in the evening, just like the other scholars. 1925. Are there entrance examinations for all the pupils ? — Every pupil must pass an entrance examination suitable to her age. 1926. From what age do you admit them, and to what age do they remain ? — We admit them as young as six, and we expect them to remain until they are eighteen. 1927. Do you consider there is any advantage in having such large numbers in a school as there are in yours ? — Yes, I can see certain great advantages. First of all, their education can be carried on more economically where you have a large school ; as, for instance, there is little loss of fees from the classes not being filled up. In the second place, we have more facilities for classification. Having a large number of classes, we can find a class suitable for every pupil that we receive. All the pupils in one class are so accurately classified, that they can go on together without the slightest difficulty. 1928. Is that classification made by yourself or by the other masters? The classification is made by the other masters, under my superintendence, but I conduct the entrance examinations ; and all those that I think unfit to be admitted, are invariably rejected by the governors. 1929. Are there not several classes of the same grade 1 — In the English department, for example, we have always three co-ordinate classes, taught by masters of equal standing, going over the same books and the same ground within the same time, and tested at the end of every two months by the same written examination. 1930. In those classes which are of the same grade, is there any prin- ciple on which they are divided, one pupil being allotted to one master, 160 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. and one to another ? — We divide them in the following way : we take the pupils as they come in, and I myself decide which department they are to go to, and I send each master a pupil in turn. Then we have different examination papers for the different grades, and the pupils are set to answer these papers in writing, and the masters classify them accordingly. 1931. Is there a greater number of grades than in an ordinary school? — A far greater number. 1932. In speaking of grades, when you say there might be three or four classes carrying on the same lessons, do you mean that they are of different degrees of standing ? — There are three co-ordinate classes of exactly the same standing, studying the same book,, going over the same part of the book within the same time, and being tested by the same examination paper. You may consider it to be one class in three different sections, taught by three different masters. 1933. Then I understand you to say there is an advantage in having three or four classes of the same standing, because it admits of more sub- division, although there is no real difference between them ? — There is no difference — they are supposed to be the same ; but the advantage which arises from that system is, that we have not only the pupils of one class competing with each other, but we have the pupils of three different classes competing with each other, and also three different masters com- peting with each other. 1934. And the results are brought out in the examination? — Yes, in the examination paper. That is the advantage of the parallel classes. 1935. What are the subjects which are taught in the institution? — We teach all the ordinary branches that are taught in a ladies' institution ; and in addition to that, we give them instruction in Latin, algebra, geometry, and book-keeping. 1936. In the case of Latin, are the pupils selected for it, or does it rest with the parents to decide whether or not they shall take up that study ? — We do not, except in a rare case, allow the parents to interfere in the matter of the education of the girls. Of course we are very glad to see the parents, and to hear any suggestions they have to make ; but we say to them, 1 When we receive your girls here, we consider ourselves re- sponsible for their education ; and if there is any disputed point as to what class they are to take, we consider ourselves the best judges of that.' We have found, with a very few exceptions, that the parents think this exceedingly reasonable ; and we do not admit a youug lady into a higher class, or into a new subject, unless she proves her fitness for it by an examination. The test which we have for admission to Latin is excellence in English, — a thorough understanding of the English language. 1937. Is that reported upon by the master of her class ? — It is reported upon by her English master, and is determined by her place in the class. 1938. What proportion do the pupils in the Latin class bear to the whole? — We have 99 pupils learning Latin just now. 1939. Of what ages are they? — I cannot state precisely, but they are selected from the advanced senior classes. I should say their ages would range from 15 to 18. 1940. They don't commence until they are 15? — No. 1941. Do you think it an advantage that they should not enter upon Latin until they are well grounded and have shown their proficiency in English? — I think so, and I find that they learn Latin very quickly. We have only had Latin going on for about a year and a half, and we find our most advanced pupils reading Virgil with comparative ease, and they can answer almost any question in grammar. 1942. Are many of them being prepared specially for the profession of MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 161 teaching ? — I don't think there are very many. At the end of the session David I always ask those young ladies who wish to be teachers to give in their Pryde, names to me. I am in the habit of selecting pupil-governesses from among the pupils, and I wish to select the very best that I can get ; and I find that, as a rule, not more than 20 give in their names at the end of the session as intending to be teachers. 1943. Is that out of the whole numbers in the school? — Out of the whole numbers. 1944. Is not that a very small proportion? — It is a very small proportion. 1945. It has been stated with regard to the Merchant Maidens' Hos- pital that a very large number of those who left the institution became teachers ? — There might be, on an average, about four or five leaving the Merchant Maidens' Hospital every year who became teachers. 1946. Probably many of those who left, although not intending to become teachers, may have become so afterwards ? — Yes. 1947. But you don't give any special advantages to those who have it in view to become teachers ? — I purpose this year to begin a class for the instruction of the pupil-governesses in the principles of teaching, to go over some text-book along with them, and to ask them to teach before me. 1948. You have not commenced that yet ? — I have not. 1949. Do you intend to take that class yourself? — I intend to take it myself, and to give them lessons both in the theory and in the practice of teaching. 1950. With regard to their instruction in arithmetic, I think you said the pupils are taught book-keeping ? — Yes. 1951. Is that for those who are sufficiently far advanced in arithmetic to enter upon it? — Yes; those who are adepts in arithmetic are taught book-keeping. 1952. In fact the instruction which you give is with a view — supposing the pupils to belong to the middle class — that they may acquire practical as well as scientific knowledge? — Yes. 1953. Is any instruction given in science? — In all the junior classes the English teacher gives instruction in the elements of science. In the senior classes the English teacher gives them lessons in political economy ; and we have a professional lecturer on science, who comes every week and delivers a lecture to 360 of the older girls. 1954. The Earl of Rosebery. — What upon? — His course begins with physiology, relating chiefly to the laws of health. He then goes on to zoology, and in the summer he takes up botany. 1955. The Chairman. — That is, he takes up botany in the class, — the pupils don't take any botanical excursions ? — We intend that they shall do so. 1956. Do you conduct examinations of the classes yourself to a certain extent ? — I look over the papers. The master gives me in a list of questions on the subjects which the class has gone over, and I select or alter these questions as I think fit. 1957. In fact you have complete control of the whole system? — Yes. 1958. With regard to the prizes or bursaries, does it rest with you to determine who are the successful candidates? — The ordinary class prizes are decided by the masters who teach the classes. The school bursaries are decided by myself. The scholarships and foundations are decided by an examiner from without. 1959. I understand there are a considerable number of bursaries given? — There have been 27 school bursaries awarded this year, and there will be 40 awarded next year. 1960. What is a school bursary? — A school bnrsary is equivalent to L 162 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. the school fee for the following session. A. young lady who gains a school bursary is entitled to her education for ihe following year for nothing. 1961. Do large numbers enter into competition for these bursaries? — Yery large. We would have all the pupils competing if they were allowed. However, we have laid clown this rule, that unless a girl makes a certain number of marks during the year, she is not to be allowed to compete at the end of the session ; and we find that this stimulates them during the whole year. 1962. What proportion do compete? — I cannot say precisely how many have competed, but I think we may select about 250 or 300 this year of those who distinguish themselves in their classes. 1963. Were these divided into proportions according to the different ages ? — Yes. 1964. What is the youngest age at which you admit them to compete? — Under nine. There are four bursaries for those under nine ; four for those under ten, and so on ; four for every age up to 1 8, — being forty altogether. Thus, a pupil who gains one every year will get her education gratuitously. 1965. Do you not find that, with children under that age, competition acts as an undue stimulus ? — They are certainly greatly stimulated ; but I never found that any evils arose in consequence. We are very careful not to give them too much to prepare at home ; and we don't prescribe any particular books or parts of books for the examinations for bursaries, foundations, and scholarships, so that they have no special preparation for these. 1966. What religious instruction is given in your institution? — It is entirely confined to Bible historj^, especially the Life of Christ and the Acts of the Apostles, 1967. Is it confined to the New Testament ?— It is in the Old Testa- ment too, but chiefly in the New Testament. 1968. Is it given daily ? — In the lower classes — that is, in the ele- mentary department and in the junior department — the pupils get daily instruction in Bible history. In the senior classes the pupils are asked to repeat two or three verses of Scripture every day, which are explained and commented upon by the master ; and in addition to that, they have regular lessons in Bible history, but not so often as in the elementary and junior departments. 1969. There is no doctrinal teaching? — None whatever. 1970. Is that Bible teaching given at any stated hours? — No ; but, of course, those who don't wish their children to attend the Bible instruction are allowed to keep them away during that time. 1971. Have any objections ever been made to you on the subject by the parents of children ? — I have had two applications for children to be exempted from religious instruction — one from a Jew, and the other from a Roman Catholic. These are the only two I have had. 1972. Have you any record of the denominations to which the children belong ? — No, we don't keep a record of that ; but I know that in our school we have pupils of all denominations. 1973. The Earl of Rosebery. — Do you consider that you manage to give undenominational religious instruction ? — I think we do. We have never had many coplaints on that ground. 1974. The Chairman. — I understand each English teacher gives an amount of instruction in the Bible in his daily lessons ? — Yes. 1 975. But that is confined to the English teacher ? — Yes. 1976. Is any of it given by yourself? — No. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 163 1977. Yon don't undertake any class of that kind? — "No; but I am David constantly inspecting the religions instruction in the different classes. Pryde, 1978. And you have only had two cases of complaint on the subject sq ' of religious teaching? — The two cases I have mentioned are the only cases that have occurred since the school commenced. 1979. There is no printed rule, or any formal rule in the Regulations, allowing those who object to religious instruction to be absent during the time when it is given? — There is no printed rule. We thought it better not to raise the question at all. 1980. When you say 1 we,' do you mean the governors? — Yes. 1981. They gave you instructions to that effect, that you were to respect the consciences of those who might object ? — Decidedly. 1982. And that instruction you have endeavoured to carry out since you have had charge of the school ? — Yes. 1983. There is no play-ground attached to your school? — There is no play-ground, but we have two large play-rooms. 1984. The Merchant Maidens' Hospital had a play-ground ? — It had. 1985. But that has now been parted with? — Yes. The boys have now the whole building ; it has been handed over to George Watson's College school. 1986. Do you think it desirable that the girls should have a play- ground too ? — I think it would be desirable to a certain extent ; but we had experience of a play-ground during our first year. During the first year of the school's existence, it was held in the old Merchant Maidens' Hospital, where the play-ground was ; but I found that it was only during a very small part of the year that the girls could be allowed to go out, and that many of them objected to go. 1987. Was the play-ground sufficiently large for their increased numbers? — It was quite large enough, and very well laid out, and a very beautiful place; but many of the girls had very long walks in coming to the school, and they did not care to run about much during the school hours. 1988. At what hour did they leave the school ? — We begin at nine in the morning and continue till three. Of course the younger pupils get away sooner— some of the very youngest at half-past twelve, some at one, and some at two. 1989. Are these the very young? — They are what we call the ele- mentary and the lower junior. 1990. In the six hours during which the others are kept, what interval is allowed for play or for meals? — Every class has at least twenty minutes for luncheon ; but the younger classes, in addition to that, have an hour's interval for play. 1991. The Earl of Roseberij. — Do you teach English grammar in your classes ? — Yes, we are very particular about that. We make that, to a great extent, the basis of our classification. 1992. With regard to the admission to hospitals, is there any recog- nised definition of the difference between a merchant and a tradesman ? — I am not sufficiently acquainted with the statutes to be able to answer that question. 1993. But one man may be both? — I suppose he could. 1994. Mr. Parker. — Is your school generally known as the Edinburgh Educational Institution? — That is its name, but it is often called the Merchant Company's Ladies' School. 1995. Why was the name of Merchant Maidens dropped? — I can scarcely give an answer to that question, because I was not consuliod in the matter at all, and the name was fixed before I was appointed. 164 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. David 1996. You have distinguished two classes— Trades' Maidens and Pryde, Merchant Maidens. — Yes. Esq> 1997. Dj you consider that 'young ladies' are a higher class in society than either of these two ? — No. I would apply the term ' young ladies ' to those who attended the Merchant Maidens' Hospital. They were drawn from the middle classes. 1998. Of those who now attend this school, are there many who need shrink from such a name as Merchant Maidens ? Are there many who are of a higher class than Merchant Maidens ? — There are a great many who are not connected with merchants at all. We have the daughters of professional men of limited incomes, such as lawyers, doctors, clergy- men, country bankers, and farmers. 1999. Do you consider the present building, in a street, to be as suitable for a large ladies' school as the Merchant Maidens' Hospital was ? — I think it would certainly be advantageous for the school to have grounds round about it, but the difficulty would be to get a school with grounds in a central position. 2000. If the old building had been retained, do you think it would have been difficult to get so large an attendance in that part of Edin- burgh as you have at your present school? — The school was filled from the very first. The hospital is not nearly so central as the pre- sent building. 2001. What attendance was there at the hospital the first year it was thrown open? — We had 1208 then; that was our highest number during the first year. 2002. What is the present number ?— 1270. 2003. Then the number is not mucli larger now than it was then ? — It is not much larger, but the school is full. 2004. Was it considered that the change was made as much in the interest of the girls as in that of the boys ? — I understand it was made entirely in the interest of both. The site of the new Infirmary is near what was the Merchant Maiden Hospital, and it was not thought desir- able that a school for young ladies should be close to such a public institution. The west end of Queen Street was thought to be a much better position for a ladies' school. I may also mention that, when our school was removed, a smaller girls' school was established in George Square by the Merchant Company, for the benefit of the southern districts. 2005. I think you said there are lectures on physiology ? — Yes. 2006. Are not the pupils taught in these lectures that they should be in the open air during a considerable portion of the day ? — I have no doubt they are. 2007. Is it not unfortunate that the practice does not agree with the theory in that respect ? — A pupil cannot get education and be in the open air at the same time. 2008. She could if you had a building not in a street ? — She would still require to be a certain time in the school ; and besides, there is not much time for play, especially in the higher classes. 2009. Then you don't think it desirable that there should be some open-air exercise during the long hours of the school ? — When the pupils have any spare time, I should certainly like to see them out in the open air. 2010. Have there been complaints about the interference of these young ladies' schools with the other schools of the same kind in Edin- burgh ? — Yes, there have been complaints. 2011. Have these complaints been continued until now? — I don't hear any now. 2012. Have you ever calculated what the cost price of the education MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 165 is, as compared with the fees charged ? — I know that the money derived David from fees pays the salaries of the teachers. ^ ydo ' 2013. Do you mean that the receipts from fees nearly balance the 2l teachers' salaries ?— Very nearly ; but the accounts of the institution, of course, will give accurate information on that matter. 2014. Then, if there was no charge made for the building, the fees would very nearly amount to the cost price of the education ? — I think so. 2015. The largest item in that being the salaries of the teachers ? — Yes. 2016. With the present salaries, are you able to command the services of the best teachers, or of teachers satisfactory to yourself ? — Yes ; I think, as a general rule, we have about the best teachers in town. 2017. Do you think that having such large numbers in your school enables you to give good instruction at a lower cost per head than could be done in a smaller school 1 — Decidedly. 2018. So that the advantage which you possess over private schools is not owing solely to the endowment, but is partly owing to the large scale on which you conduct education ? — Yes, that is one advantage. 2019. Do you find that punishments are necessary in order to maintain discipline ? — No ; we have no punishments. We do not keep in a pupil, , and we don't impose pamas at home. The only thing which might be called a punishment is the entry of the pupil's name into the defaulters' book. 2020. Is that found to have much effect ? — It has a great deal of effect. 2021. You mentioned one other punishment which may be said to hang over the pupils, viz. the fear of being dismissed ?— Yes ; but that is only resorted to in very extreme cases. 2022. Perhaps you were speaking rather of the foundationers under the old system when you mentioned that as a punishment ? — No, I spoke generally of the pupils. 2023. The Chairman. — Are the results of the examinations, and the prizes given, printed and circulated among the parents ? — The names of the medallists, bursars, and foundationers by merit are printed, and a copy of the prints is given to each pupil ; but those who gain class prizes are not included. 2024. How do the parents know what place their child has held in the school ? — In our school we have record cards. Every pupil has a record card, in which there is a column for each subject, and a line for each month ; and at the end of the month the card goes home to the parent, stating the place which the girl has held in each branch, how often she has been absent, how often she has been late, and her general conduct. That card requires to be signed by the parent, and brought back and shown to me. 2025. In the case you were speaking of just now, where a note has been taken and put into the defaulters' book, what is done with that ? — When a girl's name goes down in the defaulters' book, a note of that circumstance is sent home to the parent. 2026. With regard to musical education, is that given to all the children? — It is given to all those who can practise at home. The girls are all allowed to commence music if they have a piano at home ; but when we find that they have no taste for the subject and make no progress, we ask them to discontinue it. 2027. Is there no singing lesson ? — Yes, they have singing. 2028. Is that given to a certain number, or to all ? — All, from the very youngest, are taught singing. In the elementary and in the junior depart- ments, each class is taught separately. In the senior department, I should say that two classes are put together, and receive the singing lesson at the same time ; so that there are eighty, as it were, singing together, 166 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 2029. How are the piano lessons given? — The beginners receive indi- vidual instruction from music governesses ; and after they have acquired a certain knowledge of music and a certain ability in playing the piano, they are formed into classes, eight in a class, and are taught by masters. 2030. Is the result of that satisfactory? — We think it very satisfactory. We find that a master can detect a wrong note at once, although there are eight playing together. We find also that the system has two special advantages. The first is, that the girl is compelled to practise at home, otherwise the deficiency is found out when she sits down to play with her classmates ; and she is put out of the class, which is considered to be a great disgrace. The second advantage is, that the pupils are forced to keep the most accurate time. If they did not do that, they could not go on playing together. 2031. Are you speaking of that from your own observation? — Yes, from my own observation, and from what the music masters themselves have told me ; and I know that the parents are satisfied with the progress which their daughters make under that system of teaching. 2032. Have you compared that system with what you observed in other schools where you taught formerly? — I had no experience of music teaching in these other schools. 2033. Has there been any report on the musical acquirements of the children taught in the institution ? — There was a report the first year by Professor Oakeley ; and a report would have been made last year if the Professor had not met with a severe accident at the time when the ex- amination was about to begin. 2034. Was Professor Oakeley's report in the first year given to you in writing ? — It was given to the governors in writing. 2035. But you saw the report? — I saw the report. It was sent for my perusal, and it was very satisfactory. 2036. I understand there is no public prayer with the pupils upon commencing, or at any time in the course of the clay ? — Each class is opened with prayer. 2037. But those who object to it are allowed to absent themselves from the prayer ? — Yes. But we have had no objections whatever on that score. 2038. Mr. Parker. — I suppose the head master is certain that the other masters do not inflict any punishments ? — I am perfectly certain of that. 2039. Does the head master know what kind of lessons each girl has to prepare at home ? — Yes ; I am very particular about that. I have got a card printed and sent to the parents for their use, telling how much time we expect the young ladies to devote to their lessons in the evening ; and also saying that if any girl feels herself overburdened with her lessons, she must apply to the head master at once. 2040. I think you have a fixed curriculum? — We have. 2041. Without any extra subjects? — I scarcely know what you refer to by the name of extra subjects. 2042. Over and above the curriculum, does any girl have a further lesson to prepare ? — No. 2043. Then you know pretty well the total amount that a girl in any class has to prepare in the evening ? — Yes, I know quite well. 2044. The school bursaries, I believe, are only open to girls already in the school? — They are open to girls in the school at the time of the competition. 2045. Has it ever been proposed to have bursaries for bringing girls of good ability from other schools to this school? — I never heard it proposed. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 167 2046. That has been proposed in connection with the boys' schools, has it not ? — I never heard of it. They must be attending* the school at the time when the competition takes place. 2047. Should you think it an advantage to introduce into the school, through bursaries, *some of the girls of higher ability from other schools, who might not otherwise be able to afford to come ? — This is the first time that question has been proposed to me, and I should not like to give a hasty answer on such a matter. I should like to have time to consider it. 2048. In the time table what amount of time is given for Latin ? — Two hours per week as a general rule. 2049. How much for French? — Three hours. 2050. And for German? — Two hours. 2051. Do all the older girls learn these three languages ? — They all try French ; but if we find they make no progress, we ask them to dis- continue it. Then the twelve higher classes — that is, about 480 of the pupils — try German ; but many of them find that they can make no pro- gress in it, — that it is too much for them, and we allow them to discon- tinue it. It is only the very good English scholars who are allowed to take Latin. Dr. Robert M. Ferguson, examined. 2052. The Chairman. — Of what institution are you at the head ? — The Dr. Edinburgh Institution, at 8, Queen Street. Ferguson. 2053. What is the nature of that institution? — It is an institution for the secondary education of boys. 2054. Have you been long at the head of it? — My colleague, Mr. Bickerton, and myself have conducted it for the last fourteen years. 2055. Is it an institution for very young children, or for pupils of various ages ? — It is for boys between ten and eighteen years of age. 2056. Do you board as well as educate? — I have a boarding establish- ment, but it does not form an essential portion of the school. 2057. That is to say, you take in a few private pupils? — Yes. I have eighteen boarders at present, but in a private way. They are not part of the school. 2058. What is the number of pupils in the day school? — There are at present about 200. 2059. I understand you wish to make some statement as to the manner in which this institution and other private institutions in Edinburgh have been affected by the recent changes in the Merchant Company's schools? — Yes ; I am willing to answer any inquiries that may be made of me on that score. 2060. I believe you have been making some representation to the Home Secretary against the change ? — I partially did, and I partially did not. I joined with certain of the other teachers so far with regard to a memorial ; but there were certain points in that memorial that I did not approve of, so that if it had come to signing the memorial (it was only signed by the chairman), I would have signed it with a reservation on one or two points ; but I joined so far in getting up the memorial. 2061. You will understand we are only here to receive representat ions as to the public injury that has been clone. We don't ask you here to invite questions regarding the manner in which your private IttteMiSt lias been affected. If you have any statement to make as to the" public injury that has been done, or as to the policy of any part of the steps that have David Pryde, Esq. 168 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. been taken, we shall be glad to hear you ? — I would only mention that Fe rguso n. m y f r j en( j s anc i myself are, of course, very willing to give every facility for the Commission to convince themselves of the injury which has been done, although we should not like that that statement of injury were made matter of publicity. 2062. I wish you to understand that the Commission do not wish to go into questions of private injury that has been done to these schools. We only wish to know the views of yourself and others, who conceive you have been injured by the actings of the Merchant Company, on public grounds and general expediency? — Exactly. Then I think that the general im- pression among teachers is, that the Merchant Company's schools have effected a mere dislocation of the educational apparatus, both private and public, in Scotland, without there having been any crying necessity for it. The merits of the public schools need no mention here, and I dare say it is generally admitted that the private schools were well con- ducted. It seems to us also a very hard thing that money which was originally intended for charitable purposes should be devoted to the establishment of schools that directly interfere with our interests. These are, perhaps, the two most important objections we have to the changes which have been introduced. 2063. When you speak of dislocation, do you mean the injury which the existing schools have suffered? — No. By dislocation I mean that the existing means or apparatus for education in Scotland has been very seriously impaired. Not only the private schools in Edinburgh, but the parish schools in the neighbourhood of Edinburgh, and several of the grammar schools throughout Scotland, have suffered from the establish- ment of the Merchant Company's schools ; and therefore we consider that these schools are merely an aggregate of pupils taken from other schools that were perfectly sufficient to overtake the education before. The middle classes who send their children there now at reduced fees, might very well afford to pay what they were paying before, in the schools through- out Scotland, for the education which their children were receiving. As regards the efficiency of the schools established by the Merchant Company, of course I can say nothing. I have no reason to speak against that. I only say that the fact that by Act of Parliament a company of merchants should be entitled, as it were, to half-shut the schools of Edinburgh — both private and public schools — seems to be something like a piece of thoughtless legislation. It appears to us to be so, because Government should protect even the interests of private schools in such a matter. As I have mentioned, several parish schools and grammar schools have been seriously affected; so that, while the Merchant Company's schools offer facilities for education to the better class of country pupils, they may render a good education less accessible to such as have to stay at country schools, because, if you reduce the number of the better-paying pupils, you undoubtedly lower the standard of education in the long run, and in that way impair the education in country districts. 2064. Have any cases come within your own knowledge of country schools which have suffered that injury, or as to which complaints have been made to you that they have been deteriorated in consequence? — I believe Dr. Donaldson could give you information upon that head, but I know from private information that such schools have been severely in-- jured. In fact it was said, — but of course I don't know if it was upon sufficient authority, — that the parish schools in the neighbourhood of Edinburgh have been nearly half-emptied of their pupils. 2065. The Earl ofRosebery. — Do you mean the ordinary parish schools ? MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 169 — The ordinary parish schools. There is always a better class of children Dr. attending these schools ; and the facility given by railways for coming into Fer g us Edinburgh, rendering the Merchant Company's schools perfectly accessible, has tempted the parents to take advantage of the low fees and to send their children in here, instead of sending them to the parish school, as was the practice formerly. 2066. Can you give any particular instance of any parish school in the neighbourhood of Edinburgh which has lost any of its numbers owing to the establishment of the Merchant Company's schools? — I don't know if I am at liberty to mention cases. 2067. If the figures could only be given showing the number of pupils previous to the establishment of these schools, and the number of pupils subsequent to that, that might be sufficient ? — I think that could very easily be ascertained by the Commission. 2068. The Chairman. — Do you consider that there was full provision for the secondary education of Edinburgh before this movement took place on the part of the Merchant Company ? — I think so. It was as full, at any rate, as you would have found anywhere else. 2069. Do you think there was no want? — I think there was at least no clamant want. Another thing which the teachers feel very much is this — that it is provided in the Provisional Order that all existing interests should be represented to the Sheriff before the introduction of any measure ; but in the present instance there was no reference to the Sheriff whatever under the Provisional Order. The thing was carried through without having been submitted to the Sheriff's investigation at all. Of course that was a merely permissive point in the Provisional Order. 2070. Do you mean that the private interests which were to be repre- sented included the interests of those who were likely to suffer from the competition ? — Yes. 2071. Mr. Sellar. — You don't mean that that power was given in the Provisional Order ; you mean that it was in the Act ? Power was given in the Act to the Home Secretary, if he was so advised, to institute an inquiry : that is what you refer to ? — Yes. He might, or he might not ; but in the present instance that part of the procedure was omitted for some reason or other. 2072. Mr. Parker. — Was application made to the Home Secretary on the part of the masters of the private schools before the Order was sanctioned by him ? — I believe not. 2073. Could it be fairly expected that he would make the inquiry if the parties interested did not apply to him ? — It may be answered to that, that the teachers scarcely expected that the measure would be so sweeping as it has turned out to be. Besides, the schoolmasters of Edinburgh were ignored in the matter. No copies of the Order were sent them. I did not indeed see the Order till it was passed. 2074. Still they had an opportunity of showing that they were opposed to the Provisional Order ? — In an entirely novel enactment it is more the duty of the legislator than even the parties interested to see that no un- necessary injury is done to any one. 2075. But they did not realize how serious the change was likely to affect their interests? — No. If I mistake not, several of the members of the Merchant Company said at their meetings that they did not expect their arrangements would at all affect existing schools, but that the position of education in Edinburgh was considered so bad that there was a clamant need for the establishment of these schools. — Of course that is merely a suggestion. 2076. The Earl of Rosebery. — I suppose, there being only a limited 170 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. number of pupils in Edinburgh, the establishment of a new school must inevitably withdraw pupils from other schools ? — Unquestionably. 2077. I mean, that no public school could be established in Edinburgh without having that effect ? — Not without having that effect to a certain extent. 2078. Then, taking an interest in the case as a citizen of Edinburgh, could you be surprised at parents withdrawing their children from private schools and sending them to schools having a public supervision and responsibility ? — I could have no objection to that as a citizen, provided the competition was of a fair character ; but if by public funds the one school was very heavily handicapped and the other not, I am bound as a citizen to see that no school is placed at an undue disadvantage. 2079. The Chairman. — Of course the chief injury was done by giving education at much lower fees than were charged before? — Yes. 2080. Are the fees charged in the schools of the Merchant Company considerably below the ordinary fees of private schools ? — Yes, very considerably below. For example, they are less than one-half what the High School charges. 2081. For the same kind of education? — Yes. 2082. The Earl of Rosebery. — I understand you to object to public funds being used for these purposes ? — Yes, such funds as those in question. 2083. In what way could you employ educational funds in a manner which would not interfere at all with private schools ? — That is a some- what difficult question. Judging from past experience, it is more a question with those who have endowments to dispose of, how little harm they can do, rather than how much good they can effect ; but still, I think that funds that have been left for special charities may do the good intended without any one suffering. You will find, for instance, not only in Edinburgh, but throughout Scotland, a large number of sons of parents who once occu- pied good positions, but whose fathers are either dead or have been unfortunate in business ; and I fancy that even the funds of the Merchant Company would not be able to overtake all these cases. With reference to George Watson, his intention appears to have been to bring back children to their former position in life, their parents being either dead or unfortunate ; and if that was his intention, it could very well be still further carried out by extending that charitable intention not only to members of the Merchant Company, but to others in a similar situation. 2084. Do you think the funds of the Merchant Company would have been fully occupied in providing for children who were orphans, or the children of parents in indigent circumstances ? — I think so. At the same time I think they might have carried on a day school such as they have at present, in which they charged the full legitimate fee, as it were, for those who were not so situated. 2085. In that case they would enter into open competition with the private schools ? — Yes. I can see no objection to that. 2086. Then your view of the best use to which charitable endowments can be applied would be the gratuitous instruction of the children of those who had been in better circumstances ? — Yes, provided that the will of the testator manifestly pointed in that direction, as in the case of George Watson. 2087. But you would always have limited the objects of the bequest to orphans ? — To the orphans or the sons of the parents I have referred to. 2088. Then you would not consider that public money or bequests would be better employed by assisting the cause of a higher education with a certain amount of fee, but a reduced fee ? — I do not. I think the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 171 higher education, if it is to be genuine at all, ought to be self-supporting. Dr. It is not worth the having if it is not worth the paying for. Fergus 2089. In tho case which I suppose, they buy it for a certain sum, only they don't buy it for the full price ? — Yes. 2090. And your objection is to their not buying it for the full price ? — Yes ; and thereby getting an education that may not be a good edu- cation. If parents have to pay the full price, they will look out for the best education they can get ; but if they find they can get a very cheap education for their children, they will not be so particular about seeking it at the very best school. 2091. Would there not be a public supervision over the education, even although the full fees were not paid ? — I think there ought to be. 2092. Is there not a supervision on the part of the parents, even if they do not pay the full fees? Do you consider, for instance, that the parents of foundationers at Rugby or Harrow do not pay as much attention to the character of the education given to their children as those parents who pay the full fees ? — I do not, because in those schools they give a kind of education which leads on to a position in life, — a kind of education which leads up to the University, where there are wealthy scholarships and fellowships, and so forth ; and they are perfectly sure that their sons, by taking that kind of education, will be well provided for. 2093. That is, if they merit it by bursaries ? — Of course, there is a certain provision for them afterwards, whether the education is the edu- cation which is likely to be the best for them in life or not. The mere fact that these schools are so richly endowed, protects the education they give from being properly sifted, so as to ascertain its real worth and utility. 2094. Mr. Parker. — Compared with the High School, you say that the fees of George Watson's College schools are about one-half for the same kind of teaching ? — I think so. 2095. How would they compare with the fees charged in your insti- tution, the Edinburgh Institution? — I think they would be about one- third, or rather less than a third. 2096. Do you mean that the Merchant Company charges rather less than one-third of what you charge ? — Yes ; just about one-third. We have, however, raised our fees since the Company's schools began. 2097. And, so far as you are prepared to speak, the education is of the same quality ? — Yes. 2098. Or it is intended to be ? — Yes ; it is intended to be precisely similar, so far as the theories of education correspond. 2099. Do you think that offering the education so much lower has added to the number of children receiving a higher education, or that it has only displaced them from one school to another ? — I could not say. I fancy that it must have extended it to some extent. 2100. Looking specially to the parish schools which arc affected, do you suppose the boys who have left these parish schools near Edin- burgh to go to the Merchant Company's schools are receiving a higher education than before? — That depends on the nature of the country school, because the education in essential branches that can be given in a parish school or congregational school under inspection, with a good master, is almost as good as can be got anywhere. 2101. The fee these boys were paying in the parish schools would not, I suppose, be higher than in the Merchant Company's schools? — 1 fancy not. 2102. Then what is the motive to a parent to send his son to Edin- burgh, if he can get as good an education in a parish school at the 172 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. same fee ? — I think there are various things contributing to that. For Ferguson, instance, there are the large professions of the Merchant Company's schools and their bursaries. Their being in Edinburgh is an immense advantage, and their being conducted on such a large scale is something which proves to be very attractive. 2103. Does not a man send his boy to these schools, expecting to get a better bargain for the fee he is to pay ? — Undoubtedly. 2104. He probably expects it to be better in the way of a higher education, for the fee itself is not lower ? — I don't think it is. 2105. Then probably the parents are sending their boys to these schools, expecting for an equally low fee to get a better education ? — Yes ; I have no doubt that is the case. 2106. Don't you think that probably a larger number than heretofore of boys have been brought on to that higher education by having the opportunity of getting it at a lower price ? — I cannot say. I have not inquired into the working of the Merchant Company's schools in regard to that. 2107. Do you know how the fee charged at the Merchant Company's schools stands, compared with the cost price of the education given there ? — I cannot say. At first it was thought that the cost price was considerably above what was charged ; but with the scale of remuneration to masters adopted, and from the general system pursued there, I fancy that that is not so, — that there is not so much of an endowment for each pupil as people at first were led to believe. 2108. Do you think the total amount paid in fees would about cover the total amount of salaries ? — That depends upon the scale they adopt. I have no certain information on the point ; but to take an illustration, the highest fee charged in Watson's College is £1, 10s. per quarter. That is not only for Latin, Greek, mathematics, and all the branches, but for drawing and for gymnastics, and, if I mistake not, for music. They profess to limit their classes to between thirty and forty. Take it at thirty for the sake of illustration ; that is thirty times £6, or £180 for seven hours a day, because you could not put all the branches they profess to teach in a less time than that. Now if you divide £180 by seven, you will get a sum per hour that would not pay for first-class teaching. 2109. Mr. Sellar. — Without the endowment? — Yes; without the en- dowment. The actual sum paid is £180; and that does not include the expenses of janitor, or advertising, or cleaning, or of the profits to the head master. 2110. Mr. Parker. — Nor the rent of the building? — Nor the rent of the building. So that in that case either the remuneration must be inadequate, or the amount paid by endowment must be very considerable. 2111. Do you know whether the rates of salaries paid by the Merchant Company are such as to command the best teachers ? — I have been told that £200 is the highest that is paid for the leading teachers, and that the average is considerably below that sum. If these be the salaries, they are much below what has been hitherto paid to the best teaching talent. 2112. Was not some offer made by the Merchant Company,* in employ- ing masters for their schools, to give a preference to those who had lost employment by the change? — I am not aware of that. I know several who have got employment, but I know many more who have not, and who are very much in need of it. 2113. Are they well-qualified men ? — They are well-qualified men so far as my judgment goes. MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. 173 2114. Do you know whether any such men made application to the Dr. Merchant Company for employment and were re jected ? — I do. I know Ferguson, that one gentleman made application and was rejected. I know another gentleman, a man of first-class ability, who was once professor of Latin in a Calcutta College, who bought the goodwill of a private school just before the Merchant Company started their scheme, and whose school was utterly ruined by the change. He wrote to one of the office-bearers of the Merchant Company asking if they would take his house or school furniture off his hands, or something of that kind. He did not actually ask for employment, but he gave them the opportunity of employing him if they wished ; and he was a man whose educational standing was such as to entitle him to occupy a good position in any school in the country. 2115. Do you think he would have obtained employment if he had made application for it ? — I don't suppose he would, for they had or made no vacancy for him. They certainly made no attempt to aid him. 2116. I suppose your objection to the scheme of the Merchant Com- pany on public grounds is, that the want which it supplies can be sufficiently supplied by private enterprise, and that therefore it does not need assistance from endowments ? — I think that is so. I think that education is immensely indebted to private schools ; and if you largely devote endowments to public schools, you render it impossible for private schools to find a footing. 2117. Then, apart from the private interests existing in these schools, do you think it a public injury to stop that kind of education ? — I think it is a public injury to prevent the possibility of private schools. Take for instance the school with which I am connected. Of course I speak a little egotistically, but it is only in the way of illustration. At the time the Institution was started there was nothing but a strictly classical education given elsewhere in Edinburgh, — at least in the recognised public schools. The founder of this Institution was Mr. Cunningham, the head master of George Watson's Hospital ; and the idea struck him that it would be better to start an institution in which parents might give the kind of education which they thought best for their children,— in which, as it were, there would be given a modern education, a classical education, a scientific education, an education in modern languages, — and that without giving any particular prominence to one department over another. The result has been, that now, partly through the influence of the success of this Institution, and partly, I dare say, from general improvement or change of idea, a strictly classical education is given nowhere. Now, only assuming that the Institution has effected this result, — and I think it has to a large extent done so, — the fact of a private school starting an educational idea without the public being charged with the expense of the experiment has a very important influence upon the amelioration of education. 2118. Then you would think it, speaking generally, a desirable state of things, that side by side with public educational institutions there should be a considerable number of private educational institutions 1 — Certainly. There should be public institutions undoubtedly, but not so strongly endowed as to render it impossible for a man who is possessed of an educational idea from giving effect to it by starting a school of his own. 2119. If the Merchant Company's schools were to charge considerably higher fees, without perhaps charging the full cost of the education, would your objection to them be diminished ? — Certainly. If, as I have heard, the fees in one of the schools nearly cover the cost price, I should be perfectly satisfied were that frankly acknowledged and generally understood. 174 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. 2120. A school on a very large scale, such as the Merchant Company's Ferguson. scn0 ols, is naturally able to sell the education furnished in it somewhat cheaper, apart from endowment, than other schools, is it not? — That may help to pay for the building ; but then, if you limit your classes, it cannot possibly be cheaper. The only possibility of cheapness would be, that the head master might draw less profit, and the expense of the building would be more divided. Of course there might be some little difference in that respect ; but provided the classes are limited, the cheapening which a large school can effect can only reach a certain point, because, when education is made an individual matter, it must be paid for indi- vidually, and therefore you cannot cheapen it beyond a certain limit. 2121. The chief expense is in providing teachers, one for so many, say for every thirty or forty boys ? — Yes. 2122. Then the largeness of the school makes no considerable difference in the cost? — I don't think it does, beyond what I have pointed out. 2123. Was there a larger number of pupils at the Edinburgh Institu- tion before the Merchant Company's schools were formed, than there has been since ? — Yes, considerably larger. I think the loss we sustained was very similar to that sustained by the best schools in Edinburgh. From what I have ascertained from my private friends, the loss in the schools which are still maintaining themselves was between one-fourth and one- fifth. 2124. Has it been observed whether the same boys that went to these schools are now going to the schools of the Merchant Company, or is it only inferred from the numbers diminishing at the one class of schools and increasing at the other ?- — That is naturally the inference. 2125. But do you know that boys have actually gone from the one school to the other ? — Our losses, of course, must include both those who actually went to the Merchant Company's schools from ours, and those who were stopped from coming to us. In the year after the Merchant Company's schools were opened our numbers sunk considerably, which consisted partly of those boys who left us and went to these schools, and partly of others who would have come to us, but who did not come in con- sequence of these schools being opened. 2126. You know as matter of fact that some have left ? — Yes. 2127. And you know as matter of fact that others were prevented from coming ? — Yes. 2128. Were these members of the same family? — Yes. 2129. The Chairman. — Were the pupils in your school of the same Class as those who now attend George Watson's school ? — I think that, upon the whole, the pupils who attend our school belong to a wealthier class. 2130. So that the competition which George Watson's school has with you is not throughout exactly with the same classes ? — -We are now sup- ported by the better middle classes, though formerly we had a mixture of all classes. 2131. But when you are able to maintain your ground, it has been with the assistance of those who look to a higher education than can be got at George Watson's school ? — Yes. Of course there is a good deal of class feeling in education, and parents like their boys, whether rightly or wrongly, to mingle with others of their own rank. 2132. Mr. Sellar. — I judge, from the evidence you have given, that you have formed an opinion prejudicial to the Merchant Company's schools ? — Prejudicial as regards what ? 2133. That is precisely the point I want to know. Is your opinion prejudicial as regards these schools ? — I think it is, upon the whole. 2134. In saying that, are you speaking in the interest of the public, or MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 175 in the interest of private schoolmasters ? — Partly the one and partly the Dr. Other. Ferguson. 2135. In what respect are the public prejudiced by these schools? — In tin's way, that if these schools are perfectly successful and gain possession of the whole of the education of Edinburgh, then it becomes a question whether the public are better in the hands of a company who are not necessarily an educational company, but are a company of mer- chants, and are not responsible to any public authority for their schools, or in the hands of private individuals who are personally qualified to act as schoolmasters. 213G. You make this statement on the assumption that the Merchant Company have complete command of the education of Edinburgh ? — I only say if they had. 2137. What are the grounds for that assumption ? — The ground for that assumption is simply this, that if the Merchant Company can give what they profess to give, the highest possible education at their present fees, no school without endowments can possibly stand against them, leaving out of account the bursaries offered, which of themselves are sufficient to turn the balance of competition in the Company's favour. No one who has had the fiscal management of a school can think other- wise. 2138. As they exist at present, how many pupils do you suppose there are in the Merchant Company's schools ? — I cannot say, but I believe there are somewhere about five thousand altogether. 2139. And how many pupils do you suppose there are in Edinburgh altogether of an age to go to school ? — I cannot say. That depends en- tirely on the kind of school. Certainly, for schools such as they have made George Watson's, I don't suppose there will be many more attending other schools altogether than there are in George Watson's school. 2140. Do you limit your observations to the secondary schools alone ? — Yes. 2141. Do you limit your objection to the Merchant Company's schools to their interference with the secondary education in Edinburgh? — Secondary education stands in a different position from elementary edu- cation. Elementary education lies at the foundation of society ; secondary education more concerns the worldly advancement of the individual enjoying it. 2142. But when you say that the Merchant Company will have com- mand of education in Edinburgh, do you mean of secondary education ? —Yes. 2143. Then you confine your observations to secondary education alone ? — Yes. 2144. You said there was a general impression that the educational arrangements in Scotland had been dislocated by the Merchant Com- pany ? — Yes. 2145. Do you confine your observations upon that to the arrange- ments for secondary education alone? — Yes, chiefly. 2146. The arrangements for primary education have not been materially affected by what has been done? — I don't say that; but secondary education is what I am interested in, and I speak on behalf of secondary education. But as regards primary education, it has been affected in Edinburgh as well. 2147. But you said that when you expected the Merchant Company were to have command of the educational arrangements of Edinburgh, you confined that to secondary education alone? — Yes ; my remarks apply to secondary education. 176 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. 2148. So that, so far as your opinion goes, primary education in Edin- s rguso p. fo^gh j s no t affected by the Merchant Company's scheme ? — I have per- haps not made myself clear with regard to that. Of course I am engaged in secondary education, and the interest which I have taken in education is specially confined to that department; but I know that primary education has been affected. Still the remark which I have made, that it might be prejudicial to the city of Edinburgh to have the Merchant Company's schools alone, applies peculiarly to secondary education. 2149. Then I come again to the first question. When you say there is a general impression that there has been a dislocation of educational arrangements in Scotland without any necessity for it, does that observa- tion apply to secondary education alone ? — No ; I think it applies to primary education as well in middle class schools. 2150. Then I understand your opinion to be, that in Edinburgh it is only secondary education that has been affected, but throughout Scotland it is the whole, both secondary and primary ? — Certainly. My remark with regard to the influence of the Merchant Company's scheme was chiefly with regard to secondary education ; but the dislocation which I say has taken place has regard to all education, both primary and secondary. 2151. Will you explain how the educational arrangements in Scotland have been affected prejudicially by the Merchant Company's scheme, be- cause you have said there is an impression to that effect ? I want to get the grounds of that impression, and why such a dislocation should have been caused ? — The ground for that impression is, that in these schools you find pupils who would have been receiving education elsewhere if they had never been established. 2152. Will you be a little more explicit in your answer? You say that you find pupils in these schools who would have been receiving education elsewhere ; do you mean in different parts of Scotland ? — In Edinburgh, and in different parts of Scotland. 2153. Then you object to pupils coming from the country to a large town to be educated ? — I do not. 2154. Is not that answer rather contradictory ? — No, it is not contra- dictory. 2155. How is it not? — In this way, that a large town will always attract pupils ; but then, such a sweeping measure as this, introduced all at once, destroys the natural balance of town and country, and is a thing which Government should have been very cautious with. The success of the best country schools depends in no small degree on the fees paid by middle class pupils. If these are withdrawn and attracted to Edinburgh, the emoluments and educational character of the schools must inevitably be lowered. 2156. The Earl of Rosebery. — Do I understand that in your opinion a boy in a country parish would find it cheaper to come to a large town where he had to pay lower fees, but where he had also to pay board, than to remain at home and pay the fees of the parish schoolmaster in his own parish? — I don't consider that that would be the result ; but what I have stated with regard to parish schools refers mostly to those who are within reasonable distances by train from Edinburgh. 2157. Air. Sellar. — Then you limit your observation to the area around Edinburgh, and do not extend it to all Scotland? — The competition of the Merchant schools in the country is certainly felt most in the neighbour- hood of Edinburgh. 2158. The Earl of Rosebery. — But I must ask you, in order to make your answer quite plain, to give your reason for thinking that boys could be attracted to Edinburgh ? — I think it is owing largely to the professions MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 177 of llit 1 Merchant Company with regard to giving such a very first class Dr. education. Now, if salary bo any test of ability, parish schoolmasters Ferguson, arc, if my information be correct, on the whole, as well paid as the working staff of the Merchant schools. 2159. Then the attraction would be that a better education would be given to the boys if they came to Edinburgh ? — Yes ; that seems to me to be a very great attraction. 2160. But you won't explain the grounds on which you think that attraction exists? — The grammar school character of the Merchant schools, ensuring as it does different masters for different classes and departments, the bursaries, and the assurance of the Company that their educational arrangements cannot be surpassed, are the main elements of such attraction. It is not altogether, however, the quality of education that influences a parent to send his child from home. It may be, for example, that the child will move in a larger circle. It is an advantage connected with a country boy coming up to the Merchant Company's schools, that, instead of associating with boys who talk like himself, he associates with town boys, and gets much smarter. 2161. Mr. Sellar. — Is that prejudicial to the boy? — It is not. 2162. Then it is not in the interest of the pupils who are sent to Edin- burgh that you are now speaking ? — No ; I am speaking in the interest of those who cannot afford to send their children up from the parish school to Edinburgh. 2163. Mr. Parker. — You mean that you are speaking in the interest of the remaining children of the same parish ? — Yes. 2164. The Earl of Rosebery. — But that attraction which makes a boy come to the Merchant Company's school because it is in Edinburgh, and because he will meet there with a greater number of boys, applies equally to any schools in Edinburgh which have a large number of boys ? — Certainly. 2165. Mr. Sellar. — When you speak of parish schools, you refer, I presume, to those who are supported by endowments, such as the Heritors' endowments, and the Dick and Milne bequests, and others ? — Yes. 2166. You do not object to these endowments being spent on education ? — No ; I don't object to these endowments, because they are of a very moderate description, and, besides, most of them are for primary educa- tion, and not for secondary education at all. The extra or secondary branches of a parish school are looked on as the self-supporting section of it. 2167. Then your objection to endowments is twofold: first, because, as in the Merchant Company's case, the endowment is large ? — Yes. 2168. And, secondly, because it is expended on secondary and not on primary education ? — Yes. 2169. Would you object to all educational endowments that are large? — Yes, that are very large. 2170. Then would you object to the endowments of Oxford and Cam- bridge, for instance, being spent on education? — That is a differeut case. 2171. They are educational endowments, and they are large; and your objection, in the first place, to the Merchant Company endow- ment being spent on education is that it is too large. Now, confining ourselves to that objection, do you object to the endowments of Oxford and Cambridge being applied to education, and interfering with private interests in consequence ? — You must keep in mind that university edu- cation has never been in private hands in this country, although I believe that it would be for the advantage of the country that, under proper regu- lations, it were partly so. If I am pressed for an answer in regard to Oxford and Cambridge, I might say that it is questionable if they owe M 178 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. -Dr. their eminence to their endowments ; for without such venial support, the rguS0D ' German universities have contributed at least as much to learning and science. 2172. Then you think the endowments of Oxford and Cambridge, being large, should not be applied to education? — I think that lies altogether out of the question here. 2173. Take another case; take the large endowments of Eton, which is a secondary school? — Yes. 2174. Do you object to these endowments being spent on education at Eton because they interfere with private interests ? — I don't think they interfere with private interests, because the expense t)f education at Eton, even as it stands, is very much more than any private school can lay claim to. I hold those large endowments are only successful because they have been thrown away, so to speak, and have not cheapened education in the least; the expense of living at Eton is higher than at any private school. 2175. Do you mean at any private boarding school ? — Yes, at a private boarding school. 2] 76. May it not be that private enterprise did not think it worth while to start against them ? — That is so, but they are not of an eleemosynary kind. The education given at these places is not under-priced as at present administered. Whatever the education may be, it is not under-priced; it is perhaps over-priced, so that these endowments have not in any way inter- fered with the real price of education. 2177. I suppose you are aware that at such a school as Rugby the education is given gratuitously to the foundationers ? — I was not aware of that fact. 2178. Does not that rather lead you to modify your opinion? — No, because, under the administration of Rugby, no one can attend there who is not fully able to pay for his education. He is charged there to an ex- tent which would cover his education at any other school. 2179. He is charged nothing; the education is gratuitous ? — But there is the board. 2180. The town boys, about a fifth of the boys at Rugby, get educa- tion without paying one penny for it. Does not that rather modify the opinion you have just expressed ? — No, it does not, because the school as a whole is not an eleemosynary school. The charge paid by the vast majority of the pupils there, is fully more than would be charged else- where. Full fees are the rule, no fees the exception. 2181. Do you mean that they pay fees ? — I do not say that the town boys pay fees. But the others cannot attend under a certain sum, wnether it be set down to fees or other items. Rugby is on a different footing, therefore, from the Merchant schools. 2182. Don't they pay fees at the Merchant Company's schools? — Yes, they pay fees ; but there is wanting the other element of expense, which comes in, in effect, to increase the fees. 2183. What do you mean by that? — I mean that the expenses are so accumulated at Rugby as to relieve it from being an eleemosynary school. 2184. Are the Merchant Company's schools eleemosynary schools ? — They are eleemosynary. 2185. What do you mean by that exactly? — An eleemosynary school is a school in which all the pupils are receiving education below its market- able value. 2186. What do you mean by its marketable value? — That which is a fair price for it. 2187. How do you regulate the price ? — If the teachers were paid from MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 179 endowments instead of fees, then the education is not charged at its mar- Dr. ketable price. Fe ^ 2188. Do you not get the same class of teachers, no matter how you pay them, whether from fees or endowments ? — Yes ; but at Rugby I have been told that one of the masters gets a salary of £150, and clears a handsome sum from his boarders. 2189. But that is beside the question? — I think it is precisely the question, because you are taking a school which is only apparently eleemosynary, and one that really is so. 2190. By not paying the full price, do you mean not paying the price which private teachers demand? — Yes, of course. That is rather a roundabout way of putting it, but it comes very much to that. 2191. What was the rate charged for the best class of girls' education in a private school in Edinburgh before the recent changes ? — From £20 to £40. 2192. What is it in the Merchant Company's school? — I think it is about £10. 2193. Do you think it an undesirable thing that a poor man, belonging to the humble classes, should be allowed to get the same education for his daughter for £10 a year, which he would have had to pay £40 for to the private schools ? — No. 2194. Do you think that is prejudicial to the public interest? — I question very much if she would be benefited by it, because I doubt whether girls in humble life are benefited by learning accomplishments such as dancing, piano, and so forth ; and the giving of endowments for the teaching of accomplishments seems to me to be a very wrong thing. Besides, there are schools in Edinburgh where girls of the lower middle class can get a splendid education at moderate fees. For instance, the normal schools furnish as good an education as can be got in the Mer- chant Company's schools. 2195. You would not, I suppose, prevent the poor working man from getting a higher education for his children ? — Certainly not. 2196. I can hardly see how you can reconcile these two statements? — In so far as the Merchant schools give a higher education to such as could not otherwise get it, and who have both the wish and capacity to take it, I can possibly offer no objection ; but if, with the pretext of edu- cating the sons of poor or working men, they lower the price of education universally, and thereby reduce its value and status, I hold they are doing a serious injury to the cause of education. I consider that their present system does much more to cheapen the highest secondary education to those who need no cheapening, than to render it accessible to people in humble life. It is much more a boon to ladies and gentlemen than to working men. £10 a year for a girl, and £G for a boy, are sums that cannot be paid by working people. But I would not wish to see the higher education made too cheap even to working men. A man or his family should rise in the world mainly by their own effort. How many instances have we among us of the sons of Scotch labour- ing men who have raised themselves to a profession without other endowment than their own enterprise and capacity ! and the exertion put forth by them to advance themselves has made them all the better men. 2197. Is there no exertion on his part to advance himself because lie goes to a school where the fees are cheaper ? — What I mean is, that if you were to reduce the price of education below its proper value, you will take away the stimulus to exertion which existed before. 2198. By its proper value do you mean the price charged by private 180 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. schoolmasters ? — Yes ; or even by public schools that are not so richly Ferguson, endowed. Take the High School as an instance. 2199. Is the High School not endowed? — It is endowed. 2200. Do you object to that endowment? — I do not, provided it is not too great. Its endowment, besides, is not the fruit of present legislation. 2201. Do you think there should be no endowment at all ? — I think a little endowment would be an advantage ; but I think that every school should occupy, in the main, the position of an adventure school. 2202. Then in point of fact you think there should be none but adventure schools? — No; but they should be adventure schools for the most part. In the sense in which I am now using the word, all our public schools in Scotland are adventure schools. The High School is an adventure school. 2203. I thought you said it had an endowment ? — Yes ; but it could not subsist without its fees. The Academy is in the same position. It is not an endowed school. 2204. Do you think the public would suffer if the Academy were an endowed school ? — I think they would. 2205. You said that the evil of these schools was felt by the middle classes ? — It might be. 2206. I understood you to say that it actually was felt by them? — It may be felt. Of course the thing is quite recent. 2207. Do you mean the middle classes of Edinburgh, or the middle classes throughout Scotland ? — Whichever you choose ; say the middle classes throughout Scotland. 2208. How is it to be shown that evil has been felt among the middle classes throughout Scotland ? — The two years that the schools have been in existence are scarcely a sufficient test of the fruits of the system. 2209. But if the middle classes felt them to be an evil, would they use the schools ? — They may yet feel it to be an evil; a point of that kind has yet to be decided. 2210. But speaking at present, as in the year 1872, have the middle classes felt it to be an evil ? — I don't think they have. 2211. Have they not filled the schools to overflowing ? — Yes; but will they continue to do so ? That is the point. 2212. Does it do them any harm now that they should fill these schools to overflowing ? — If it does, they do not seem to feel it. 2213. Then how is the evil felt by them? — I have said already that it might be felt in course of time, because if these schools are to knock all other schools out of the market, they would impair the mission of education, and throw the whole education of the country at the mercy of one particular set of schools ; and that, I think, is a very wrong thing to do. 2214. But we brought them down before to the secondary schools only ? — Yes ; I don't say that at present very much evil is felt from these schools, but we are talking about a general principle. 2215. You say that that evil may be felt: how do you think it may be felt? — I may mention as an illustration, that the grammar schools of England are well known to have been only recently, — I don't know what way they are now, — utter failures as regards teaching ; in fact, the masters have rather kept away pupils than endeavoured to get them to their schools. The schools were so richly endowed, that the fewer pupils they had the better. These schools at one time had all the field to themselves, and no unendowed school could contend with them ; but their monopoly once secured, they served the public badly. 2216. Were they subject to Government inspection? — I suppose not, MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 181 although in many instances they were yearly examined by the Fellows of Dr. Oxford or Cambridge Colleges ; but the teachers were men of the very Ferguson, best class. 2217. You know that the Merchant Company under the Provisional Order do provide for their schools being inspected? — Yes, but not by Government. 2218. Then you do not say that the evil is felt by the middle classes, but only that it may be felt ? — Yes, it may be felt, and I believe it cer- tainly will be felt. 2219. Is it not rather hypothetical to say that it may be felt? — No ; because we have found it to be the case in other instances in England. For instance, as I have mentioned, the grammar schools, owing to their rich endowments, were utter failures as a rule; whereas, if they had been less richly endowed, and had been more of the nature of adventure schools, they would not have gone down, but would have remained in a fresh, active, healthy state. You find that in many English towns where there is an endowed grammar school, a proprietary school has been put down alongside of it, and that the proprietary school without endowment flourishes, while the other simply keeps on its downward course. The effect of the endowment upon it is simply soporific. Com- petition is as much needed in schools as in trade to keep things alive. 2220. You made a calculation with regard to the numbers in the classes in the Merchant Company's schools, and you said the result was, either that the education was inferior, or that the endowment was con- siderable ? — Yes. 2221. You said that the Merchant Company limited the classes to thirty, so far as you knew 1 — Yes, so far as I know, they limit them to thirty boys. 2222. Assuming that to be correct, is it an advantage or a disad- vantage that the classes should only consist of thirty? — I think that from thirty to forty is a good class. 2223. Then you don't object to the Merchant Company's schools on the ground of the number in their classes ? — No. 2224. You said that the private schools in Edinburgh were, as a rule, supposed to be well conducted 1 — Yes. 2225. Putting your own out of the question, — for you cannot speak of it, — do you know of any large private schools in Edinburgh that have been publicly examined and reported upon, so that we can know whether they have been well conducted or not? — I do not know what public and reliable examination is provided for, or is accessible to them, any more than there is in the case of any middle class school in Scotland. The late Commission on burgh schools examined one or two private schools in Edinburgh, the reports of which are now before the public. Certainly there was no large secondary day school examined but the Institution, and the majority of schools had no chance of that examination. When provision is made for an impartial public inspection of schools, such as now nowhere exists in Scotland, I feel sure that these schools will not be found wanting. 2226. Then you can merely say that it is an impression that they have been well conducted ? — No ; I know it from the fact of the pupils at these schools having a very good character, and from seeing these schools themselves. 2227. You have no basis for that opinion except your own impres- sion? — I have partly the basis of these reports, and I have this basis, that the public have very largely supported these schools, and are satis- fied with them. 182 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. 2228. Is that not precisely what the public are now doing with regard rguSQD - to the Merchant Company's schools ? — Yes, for the last two years. 2229. The inference therefore is, that the Merchant Company's schools are well conducted also ? — Yes ; but it is a very good compliment to the private schools in Edinburgh, that you find a large section of the middle class still preferring to pay twice or thrice the amount of fees which the Merchant Company charge, and sending their children to these private schools. 2230. Then you have no basis to go upon as to the advantage of these private schools to the middle class ? — I have this basis, that without backing of any kind, a powerful company, or even low fees, they still maintain their position. Their basis of support, however, is now nar- rowed to a fraction, though an important and wealthy one, of the whole middle class. 2231. And all the rest of the middle classes except that fraction prefer the Merchant Company's schools ? — Yes. 2232. Do you know the amount of the income of the Merchant Com- pany ? — I believe it is somewhere about £20,000 a year. 2233. Assuming it to be £20,000 a year, do you consider it desirable, or the reverse, in the interest of the public, that that money should be spent on education ? — I think it should be spent so as to carry out the will of the founder in a manner most advantageous to the public weal. I don't see that Government or any party has a right to take funds left for a charitable purpose and devote them to the national good, unless it can be distinctly proved that the purpose for which the money was originally designed has proved prejudicial, which cannot be said in the present instance. 2234. That is a legal question ; but as matter of fact, do you consider it better for the community that this £20,000 a year should be speDt, as it now is, on the education of the middle class, as you have now shown us, of all Scotland, or on the education of 350 boys ? — I don't see that there is any improvement. 2235. You spoke of the legislation being thoughtless with regard to the passing of the Provisional Order : why did the schoolmasters not object to it ? — I give my own case as an illustration of that. I had a vague idea that the measure would affect me, but I thought I had no reason to object. I did not know that I should have been listened to, even suppose I had objected. 2236. Do you know when it became public ? — It was in the beginning of 1870. 2237. What is the date of the Provisional Order? — I think it was about the end of June. 2238. Was there no correspondence in the newspapers on the subject? — I think not. I don't recollect seeing any correspondence in the news- papers about it. 2239. The date of the first meeting of the Merchant Company was 28th February, and it was 13th June before the Order was signed. After that you had forty days, when it was lying on the table of both Houses of Parliament ; why did you make no objection then ? — In my case, as I have said, I did not think that any objection would be listened to. I thought I was simply to submit to a public measure; but I should cer- tainly have taken steps to secure inquiry if I had thought it would have done any good. 2240. Did you take no steps at all ?— No. 2241. Have you not a large co-operation among schoolmasters? — Yery little, — almost none. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 183 2242. Have you no institution? — There is the Educational Institute, Dr. which, in my opinion, has as yet done almost nothing in the way of a Fei ' guSQD ' trade union or teachers' faculty, whatever it is calculated or likely to do. 2243. But you have a combination of schoolmasters ? — No other than the one named. 2244. And they exercise very great influence upon legislation with regard to education, as they always have done ? — 1 question if they have great influence. 2245. Is it not the fact that the schoolmasters of Scotland conceive that to them is due the credit of not having the Revised Code in Scot- land, for instance ? — 1 think it is as much due to the influence of the Churches as to anything else, and the general repugnance there may be in Scotland to it. 2246. Was there no objection taken by any schoolmaster at all to this measure ? — I am not aware ; and the mere fact of the Provisional Order not having gone before the Sheriff almost proved that we had very little to fear : we fancied that, seeing the thing was passed in such a hurry, it certainly could not have the sweeping effect at once it has had. 2247. You say it passed in a hurry, when you had from February to June before it was laid on the tables of t"he House ? — But what access had we to it ? As regards hasty legislation, I may mention that in the case of the Licensing Bill, the Home Secretary gave the licensed victual- lers ten years to adapt themselves to the new system ; but the school- masters in Edinburgh had only six weeks to adapt themselves to the system which was introduced by this Order. 2248. The fact remains, that no schoolmaster made any objection ? — Yes. Besides, it was mentioned by several of the members of the Merchant Company that they had no intention to injure existing schools in Edin- burgh at that time. That was once or twice referred to. But even supposing we did not object, I think I have a right to have my interests protected by the country in spite of myself. 2249. Is not your complaint against the Merchant Company's scheme of a similar character to that made by labourers when machinery was introduced? — No, it is not, because the introduction of machinery was a decided improvement in the manufactures of this country. This is simply the substitution of one set of labourers for another, in no respect inferior. Besides, mind work admits of no machinery, and it is a question whether this will be an improvement. 2250. Have you not this fact as showing that it is an improvement, that in two years the middle classes have so approved of it that they have filled the schools ? — Yes. 2251. Would it not appear, then, that they at least are satisfied that it is an improvement ? — Yes, meanwhile they consider it so ; but I think that was done to a large extent in consequence of the false impression produced by the professions of the Company. I am certain the middle classes fancied they were getting a decided bargain with regard to edu- cation when they supported these schools in the way they did. 2252. Mr. Parker. — There are in Edinburgh educational endowments to the extent of about £40,000 a year ? — Yes. 2253. And the uses to which they have hitherto been applied have not been found satisfactory? — So it is said, but I question whether that is the case. 2254. Have you considered whether, the endowments being so large, any proportion of them could be applied to promote secondary education in a way to which you would not object ? — I have already specified one 184 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. way. I think the giving of bursaries to all schools throughout Scotland Fe rguso n. wou i(j b e a V ery useful thing. 2255. But the way you specified before was the giving to children of the higher classes, whose parents are not able to afford it, an education suitable to their class ? — Yes ; but only where the donor meant so. 2256. Besides that, do you think a proper use would be to apply the funds in bursaries 1 — Yes. 2257. Would you object to a very large number of bursaries of that kind being established ? — Certainly not. But I would take care that a number of these bursaries were limited to those of small incomes, so that they would be accessible to the poorer classes. In open competition with those more happily circumstanced, the sons of the working man would have little chance. 2258. But the funds being very large, would you object to a con- siderable number of these bursaries being available to all persons without regard to circumstances ? — The funds were meant to have a charitable application ; and if diverted to the promotion of general education, they should for the most part go in the direction of helping those that cannot well help themselves. If the funds are more than able to accomplish this, by all means let there be perfectly open bursaries. If the Merchant Com- pany had offered bursaries to boys and girls without limitation of place or school, that would have done an immense deal of good without in any way affecting existing schools, 'because the bursars might have attended public or private schools just as they cared to do. 2259. The Merchant Company have offered some bursaries to all the schools in Edinburgh, have they not? — I think not; they are limited simply to their own schools. That has not been the case with any of the bursaries except the Heriot bursaries, which have done an immense deal of good. 2260. How would a school like yours be affected by the existence of bursaries open to competition at the Merchant Company's schools? W ould not that lead to the boys being drawn away from your school ? — ■ Do you mean if the bursaries were simply confined to the Merchant Company's schools, or if they were open to all competitors ? 2261. I mean if the Merchant Company offered bursaries at their own schools to competitors from other schools? — I think that would offer a considerable temptation to boys to leave other schools and go to those of the Merchant Company. 2262. Do you think that would be a serious objection to having such bursaries ? Would it, in your opinion, very much interfere with the private schools ? — I think it would. 2263. Then the application of the funds which you wish to see would be for bursaries tenable at any school? — Yes, tenable at any school, and limited, at least partially, to a certain class of society. 2264. And in that way, you think, a large amount might be expended without injury to private schools ? — Yes, without injury to any parties whatever. Dk. James Donaldson, examined. Dr. 2265. The Chairman. — You are rector of the High School of Edin- Donaldt-on. burgh ?— I am. 2266. From what class are the pupils of that school chiefly drawn? — It is from the middle classes of Edinburgh,— and not of Edinburgh alone, but from various parts of the world, in fact. 2267. I believe it is partly supported from the Common Good of the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 185 city? — No; there is nothing from the Common Good of the city, but there are endowments left in the hands of the city as trustees. The town previously gave something out of their Common Good, but within the last six years they have given nothing to it from that source. 2268. What is the amount of the endowments you have mentioned? — They would amount, I should think, to about £800, or between £700 and £800. 22 G9. They are a considerable assistance to the support of the school ? — Yes. 2270. What number of pupils have you ? — There are at present 247 pupils attending the school. 2271. Have you any statement to make as to the manner in which the interests of the school have been affected by the recent operations of the Merchant Company ? — I can give you the facts of the case so far as we are concerned. We were partly involved with the Merchant Company, and that has to be taken into consideration. The Edinburgh High School is the public school of Edinburgh, or the grammar school of Edinburgh as it has been called ; and accordingly, when any movement takes place with regard to the education of the city, we are generally affected by it personally, if I may so speak ; and in this particular case, before the Merchant Company's schools were formed, a resolution was passed by the Company to send those pupils to the High School who were deserving of a good education. Accordingly, in 1868-69, forty-one of their boys were sent to the High School. The result of this requires a little explanation. Perhaps there is no place where to a greater extent caste prevails than in Edinburgh ; and the feeling that the boys had to associate with the boys of the Hospital certainly acted strongly against the school; and if we gained these forty-one boys, we lost some others, especially as at that time we had got into a capital career. Some changes had taken place, and we had got a hold of the public ; and I think the taking of these boys did us a considerable deal of harm. I thought, however, that, as a public school, we should never refuse, but should go upon the principle of taking whoever came, and especially that w r e should recognise no distinction of classes, and therefore I had no hesi- tation in taking the boys ; but some of the other masters had very great hesitation, and objected to it. When the forty-one boys came, the num- bers at the school were 378 ; the year before they were 340. Next year twenty-nine boys came, and the numbers were 369. Then the change came; the twenty-nine boys were withdrawn, and the Merchant Com- pany's schools began to act ; and the result was, that we had 301 boys, — that is, a deficiency of the twenty-nine, minus some others. 2272. What was the total deficiency ? — It would be sixty-eight altogether. 2273. Of which twenty-nine were pupils who had been sent by the Merchant Company ? — They might have been. We cannot say for cer- tain that they would have been sent again, but they had been there the year before. 2274. But twenty-nine were withdrawn from you who had formerly been sent by the Merchant Company ? — Yes. Then last year the numbers were 284, and this year they are 247 ; but during the course of the year they will probably come up to the 284. They generally increase in the course of the session, — perhaps about twenty or thirty coming in during that time. 2275. In some respects you will gain by the withdrawal of the Mer- chant Company's boys? — Yes. 2276. l>ut in other respects you will lose by the competition of thp new 186 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. schools ? — We will lose those who found it difficult to pay the fees, and yet had no other school to go to until the Merchant Company's schools were formed. But what we specially complain of, and what we feel the disadvantage of, is not the schools themselves, but that the bursaries which are connected with the University, and such like things, should be left entirely to them, and not thrown open to public compe- tition. If you throw the bursaries open to public competition, — and I go upon the principle that they should be open to public competition in the widest sense of the term, and given to the greatest merit, — then I think we would have no cause of complaiut against the Merchant Company's schools. 2277. You mean to say that the competition for these bursaries would be a great stimulus given to education? — Yes; and it would be some- thing like a test of what the schools could do. We wish to be tried by public examiners, and we wish to come into rivalry with any number of schools you like. 2278. Is the Merchant Company's school open to exactly the same class that attend the High School? — The class is very much determined by the amount of fee, — at least to a very large extent it is determined by the amount of fee charged. The amount of fee charged by the Merchant Company is nearly one -half what is charged at the High School, and of course some that might come to the High School would go to the Mer- chant Company's schools, but only perhaps about twenty or thirty, — I think that would be about the average. Still that destroys what was at one time a characteristic of the Scottish schools, — the schools being open to all classes, and all classes mingling together, if they had the ability for it. 2279. Then I understand the Merchant Company, by their low fees, are bringing in rather a lower class than attend the High School ? — Yes. 2280. And you do not have so many of that class attending your school now as you had formerly ? — No. 2281. The High School is now rather a school for the upper middle class ? — Yes, I should say so decidedly ; and in the end, of course, the change may do us good, — there is no doubt about that. 2282. In what way will it do you good? — Because we find in Edin- burgh that the old idea of opening the school to everybody is not very favourable with the public. The idea of selectness is, unfortunately, too frequently the principle upon which they go. 2283. Do you think there was room for another great educational institution in Edinburgh ? — I think it would have been very wise if some- body representing the town had gone over the whole of the educational institutions of the town, and examined where there was room for another ; but I question very much the propriety of any company or any individual going in all of a sudden, with funds from any source whatsoever, and unsettling things, because I think they must in the end be unsettled again. 2284. You believe that in their plans they have not sufficiently con- sidered the particular educational wants of particular districts ? — I don't know about that. 2285. Then what do you mean by the want of sufficient consideration? — I mean that I am very strongly of opinion that education will never be satisfactorily given in this country until it is done upon a public system. I should say that in this case, if there are any educational funds, it is the local board that should manage these funds, because there is sure to be a great number of interests clashing, and the clashing of these interests does, in the end, great injury to education. For instance, in this case, they have displaced a considerable number of private teachers ; and the effect of that upon private teaching will necessarily be, that other men MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 187 will not be inclined to come here and begin as private teachers. Of course Dr. that may be an advantage to some extent ; I am not speaking about that ; Donald* but, at the same time, if the Merchant Company's schools were to give way, as it is perfectly possible they may, — if the Merchant Company were to feel inclined to say, ' We have no wish for these schools any longer,' — then Edinburgh would be again in a dilemma with regard to education. I can quite conceive, from what I have seen of the Town Council, and what I have seen of public bodies generally, that the Mer- chant Company might come to say, 4 We are tired of this sort of thing. It is not our business to manage schools. We will attend to the funds of the Merchant Company, and send the boys to some school or other.' And in that case there would be a serious difficulty. -228G. You think they might neglect the interests of the schools? — They might. 2287. You do not mean that they might throw up the trust altogether ? — They need not throw up the trust. I suppose they have no right under the Provisional Order to do that ; but they might send the boys to the High School, as they did before. 2288. From the terms of the Provisional Order, is it within their power to divert the funds upon a new plan ? — Yes. I had a good deal of talk about these schemes at first; and the first idea of the Merchant Company's schools was, that they should be comparatively small schools, with teachers well paid. They might revert to that scheme at any time. 2289. They might break up their present large establishments, and start with another on a new foundation? — Yes. 2290. Is there anything in the constitution of the Merchant Company which, you thiuk, lays it open to that danger ? — Of course it is not a popular body ; it is a body merely of merchants ; and I could easily con- ceive them giving way to a popular movement, and adopting another plan. 2291. It is not a representative body? — It is not. I could perfectly conceive that such a thing is possible. If, for instance, in the course of time the Merchant Company's schools were exposed to a public outcry against them, and if the feeling of the town was strong against them in any way, I think it is very likely they would be inclined to relinquish them ; and, therefore, the only security in managing funds like these, is in their being in the hands of a popular body representing the community. 2292. But with regard to the funds as they are presently administered, do you think it would relieve a great deal of what you complain if the bursaries were thrown open, so that their schools were made to compete with other schools? — Yes, that would be a great relief. I have always held that close bursaries are not good bursaries ; but that the more com- petition there is for them, the more educational advantage there is con- ferred on the community. 2293. How would you meet the danger to which you refer of the Merchant Company acting with caprice in the management of their funds ? — By an alteration of their constitution, or by more stringent provisions as to the application of the funds. My idea of a thing like that is per- haps a little peculiar. It is, that when funds of that sort are left for education and maintenance combined, a Commission like this ought to leave the Merchant Company with as large funds as they think they ought to get for maintaining the boys, and to put into a general fund, in some way or other, as much as is intended for education. I think that when there is charity to be given, the Merchant Company might discharge the duty of administering t lie charity quite well; but when education is to be given, it ought to be given by the public representatives of education, or in co-operation with them. 188 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 2294. Are you aware that the change was made principally on the ground that the plan of educating these children within the hospital, apart from others, was injurious, and it was supposed that that would be remedied by mixing them with other children from without ? — Yes, and I very strongly approve of the change so far as that goes ; but I do not see any difficulty in saying that a certain sum shall be spent upon the maintenance of the boys and given as charity, and a certain sum given directly for education. 2295. You would make the Merchant Company merely the distributors of the funds for those recipients who are entitled to them for main- tenance, and leave the whole education to some other body ? Do I under- stand that that is what you suggest ? — Perhaps I am not stating it very distinctly, but I think the Merchant Company should look after the maintenance of the boys so far as it goes, and that the boys should be allowed to attend the public schools already existing. The public schools should be there ready for them, fully organized by the local board in this particular case, and the boys should be sent to them ; and probably, as the funds have so vastly increased on their hands, both for maintaining and for education, a certain sum should be taken and given over to the local board as an endowment for the public schools. 2296. You would give the local board the administration of the funds so far as they were to be applied to general education? — Yes. I think the funds have so vastly increased in these cases, that there is plenty to be given both for the maintenance of really poor and deserving children, and also for the educational purposes of the city. At present, the Merchant Company have so far given in to the principle as to supply education to those who are not pauper children ; and I think it would just be carrying it a little further to give a portion of the funds to the public authorities in connection with education. 2297. Would you apply that principle to Heriot's Hospital also? — Decidedly. I would apply it to all hospitals, and particularly to Heriot's Hospital, because of its connection with the High School. You know, of course, that George Heriot left a will, and left it to a Dr. Balcanquhal to carry out that will ; and he said that all those who were to have a middle-class education were to go to the grammar school of the town, which is the High School. That is the very principle I am maintaining, — the principle that w T as adopted by Dr. Balcanquhal in his statutes as to George Heriot's Hospital. 2298. You think the funds of George Heriot's Hospital should be ad- ministered in that way, — the governors taking no part in the education, but sending the children to receive their education in independent schools ? — Yes ; only that I think a certain portion of their funds, now that they have increased so largely, should go direct to the local board. There is now an immense deal more than George Heriot ever left for the main- tenance of poor children, and an immense deal more than he ever left for their education ; and I think a considerable portion might be given to the local board to be applied in the way I have suggested. 2299. When the Provisional Order was under consideration, did you make any representation to either of these bodies, or to the Home Secretary, in connection with it? — I was to a considerable extent in con- tinual contact with both bodies ; and I approved of both Orders so far, although I disapproved of them at certain stages. 2300. Do you mean that you were in communication both with the Merchant Company and Heriot's Hospital ? — Yes. 2301. But not with the Government ?— No. 2302. You made no objection to the Government as to these schemes ? — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 189 No. I was at a meeting which some of the schoolmasters had as to the Dr. injury that was done them, and ultimately a communication was made to Donaldson, the Government. 2303. Mr. Sellar.— That was after the passing of the Order?— Yes. The results of the actual mode of carrying out the Order were anticipated by no one. In the case of the Heriot scheme, I could not object to it, if once the scheme of the Merchant Company was passed, because it was just carry- ing out the same sort of notion ; and I think the more they fight against each other, until the absurdity of private individuals managing public education comes out, the better. Heriot's Hospital proposed to have a classical school at a lower rate still than the Merchant Company, and they were to fight against each other. That was the fact of the matter. Now, I think all the history of education proves that the only way to do the thing satisfactorily, is to do it as a public thing. You have that proved very clearly in Germany. 2304. The Earl of Rosebery. — Do I understand that your only grievance as to the system of the Merchant Company, is that the bursaries are not open? — My grievance also is, that it is a private institution ; that is to say, it does not benefit education so much as if it were in public hands. 2305. I understand your objection was principally against the bursaries not being open ? — That is one of the objections, but I would not say that it is the only objection by any means. 2306. You said you thought there was a danger of the Merchant Company being capricious with regard to the system of education ; that they might desist from carrying it on as they do at present, or change it in some way ? — Yes, any private body might do that. 2307. Then the objection that is taken to the Merchant Company's system is, that it injures the private schools so much that they are likely to be driven out of the market ? — Yes. 2308. Would you not consider that private schools were more liable to danger from fickleness and caprice, than a public body like the Merchant Company ? — Of course they are, but not than a body managing public education like a local board. The private schools would be more liable to be affected in that way than the Merchant Company, but the Company, again, would be more liable than the local board. 2309. Therefore you think the Merchant Company have rather con- ferred an advantage by driving out the private schools ? — Yes, to educa- tion generally ; but the unfortunate thing is, that the injury can occur again. The whole thing may be unsettled again. 2310. But the question is, whether it has not been an advantage in the present case? — Well, the question is, whether the half of a thing is so good as the whole ; and if you do not go the whole way that is possible, it is very difficult to estimate whether good has been done by going only the half. 2311. I understand you do not complain, as regards the High School, of the deficiency in your numbers which has been caused by the with- drawal of the hospital boys ? — I am not here to complain at all. I wish to state the facts of the case rather than anything else. 2312. That, however, is rather a form of expression. You do not mean that there is no cause of complaint, but I understood you to say that the hospital boys rather drove away the other boys from a senti- ment of class ? — They did that. 2313. Then, perhaps by putting the boys who came as against those who were taken away, you are not much worse off in numbers now, in consequence of the opening of the Merchant Company's schools ? — We are worse off, because the impression produced upon the town is very im- 190 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. portant, and will last for a long time. If the hospital boys had not been •onaldson. there at all, it might have been a different thing altogether. 2314. It was the admission of the hospitallers that caused the bad impression ? — Yes. 2315. And their withdrawal did not do away with it? — It did not. In fact, some of the parents that came to me said they were very unwilling to send their children where hospital boys had been. 2316. Then the contrast between the High School and the Merchant Company's school would be a small endowment managed in a public way, and a larger endowment managed in a less public way ? — Yes, to a cer- tain extent ; but that is not the whole. As I understand, the Merchant Company's schools are of a very peculiar nature. They have got endow- ments to back them, but they try as far as they possibly can to make them pay themselves. Now, if I were to state fully what I consider to be the damaging effect of the Merchant Company's scheme, — I do not wish to complain unduly of their schools ; they do a deal of good, I admit that, and I wish to give them full credit for the earnestness with which they are desiring to improve education ; — but the ground on which I take exception to the Merchant Company's schools is this, that with vast endowments behind them, they have arranged a system of education where the teachers get no more than, the best of them, £200, and the great majority of them £100 a year. For public men like the Merchant Company to fix that as anything like the standard for the salaries of teachers, was, I think, a sad sign of our country. If they had made the school a model school, where they were to pay the teachers better and give a high education, I would have sought to resign myself to the circumstances of the case ; I could not help it. 2317. But you surely cannot complain of their getting the article as cheaply as they can ? — Yes, I do complain of public men acting in that manner with funds like these, whose only object should be the advance- ment of education. I complain of them distinctly, for they lower educa- tion throughout the country, because they lower the idea of education. Their principle was a very simple one : — The private schools give smaller salaries than even these, and therefore we shall go into the market and get a certain article for this purpose. I think that was a very bad way of doing for public men. 2318. Do you go upon the principle that public men, when they can get an article for £200 a year, should give £300 a year for it? — No; but there is this in it, that although they get a certain kind of article for that money, they do not get the article they should get. I do not think parents are very good judges of what education is ; and it is only in those countries where the rulers take it into their own power, like Germany, and settle the salaries, that you get a first-rate education. Take, for in- stance, the case of a young man who comes up from the country to go to college, and he finds it advantageous to go into a private school for a salary of £80 or £100 a year ; he goes in there for two or three years, and then he gives it up. I say that a system which encourages that kind of thing is really ruining the profession of the teacher, and that means, utterly ruining education. I think our only safety is in a public system, where the teachers will have fixed positions, and where they will have decent salaries on which they can maintain themselves, and be able to look to the end of their life as being a life spent in education. 2319. Then do you complain of the standard of education at the Mer- chant Company's schools being lower than it ought to be ? — I have no reason to say that as matter of fact, because I have not examined the schools ; but, as matter of principle, I say that if teachers are to be em- MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 191 ployed at £100 and £200 a year, and no more, then in the end the pro- Dr. fession of teacher in this country will be lower than the profession of Po Daldi teacher in any other civilised country in the world. 2320. Do you mean to say that the position of a teacher in the Mer- chant Company's school is not made sufficiently high to attract good teachers ? — I am not putting it in that way just now, because circum- stances may alter it ; but if things are to go on in the country as they are doing now, you cannot have a good system of education on that basis ; it is simply impossible. A young man entering life can get £100 a year as a clerk ; and why, in that case, should he enter upon the profession of a teacher, with no chances beyond it ? 2321. Would you wish a Merchant Company's teacher to be so well off that he would not be better off by leaving its service? — No. There might be gradations, but I think £100 or £200 is the highest they give to men actually in work. They give more to the head masters ; but for men actually in work, I think that is too little to start with. I believe they have given one man a little more since ; but I saw a private document which contained a list of all the salaries they gave, and that was about the result of it. My complaint is made more for the cause of education itself than in the interest of the High School. 2322. Mr. Porker. — I understand you to be looking at the question not only as the head of the High School, but from the interest you take generally in the higher instruction of Edinburgh? — Yes. In fact, one of the propositions of the Merchant Company was of such a nature that I thought the High School would be much more severely injured than it is, and yet I gave my sanction to it. 2323. Looking at it from that public point of view, you see two large masses of endowments in Edinburgh — the Heriot endowment of £20,000 a year, and the Merchant Company's endowment of £10,000? — Yes. 2324. And you see also a proposal to erect a School Board in Edin- burgh, which shall have a control over the High School and over the higher education so far? — Yes. 2325. Do you think it is for the interest of that higher education that there should be these three bodies entirely independent of each other ? — Certainly not. The very point where the mischief has been done is by one body acting by itself, instead of taking the whole into consideration. 232 G. Do you see any traces in the schemes already put forward by the Merchant Company and by Heriot's Hospital of rivalry between them? — Distinctly. 2327. And of conflict of interest? — Yes, of conflict of interest unques- tionably. 2328. And if there were a third body, — namely, the School Board, — having no definite relations to the others, you think there would be worse confusion ? — I think it is very likely there might. 2329. Supposing the Merchant Company and Heriot's governors were unwilling to agree to, but were disposed to resist, any transference of their educational funds entirely to the School Board, do you think it would be of any use that the School Board should have some members serving also on the other governing bodies ? — That might be an advantage, but 1 don't know that it would come to much, because in all these cases it is one or two men who practically manage the thing, — that is to say, in all these bodies there are one or two practised individuals who take a great interest in the matter, and who carry everything before them. In the case of the Merchant Company, there were Town Councillors on the management who yet took no account of the High School or any other school. T 192 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. should think the only solution of the difficulty lies in having one single Donaldson. mana ging body. 2330. The governors of George Heriot's Hospital, in a letter to the Home Secretary, state that they stand towards the citizens in a position similar to that of the School Boards in England, on the ground that they are elected. Do you think that is a correct statement ? — It has an appearance of truth ; but fundamentally I suspect it is not exactly the thing, because when men are elected as trustees of Heriot's Hospital, and act as trustees of that Hospital, they have separate and special interests. If they were elected as a School Board, they would act as a School Board ; but if they are elected as trustees of Heriot's Hospital, you will find that they act as trustees, having a conservative feeling with regard to the Hospital. 2331. The thirteen parochial clergy, of course, are not elected at all ? —No. 2332. And the Lord Provost and Magistrates and Council are elected for many other purposes besides education ? — Yes. 2333. Therefore the whole body does not correspond accurately to a School Board?— No. 2334. And when Parliament gave the management of education, not to the Town Council, but to a board elected for the purpose, that was pre- sumably the reason of the decision ? — Yes. The reason was, that those who were elected would devote their whole attention or have their whole interest in education, and were to be elected specially for that object. 2335. Then you think it most desirable that the School Board in Edin- burgh should have the general control of all these endowments? — Decidedly. I have no hesitation about expressing that opinion. I see no other way out of the difficulty. 2336. Under the superintendence of the School Board for Edinburgh, you would not be afraid of any harm resulting from spending very large sums to endow education ? — Not at all. 2337. The emoluments of the masters in the Merchant Company's schools, you think, are decidedly below what they ought to be for that class of education? — Decidedly. 2338. Of course a master there has a prospect of rising gradually ? — Yes, but look what they have done. He has the prospect of rising to the High School, or to the Academy, or to two or three places, not very many, like these ; but the result of these schools, so far as they have yet affected the High School, has been to take from the classical masters about £100 a year each, and thus to diminish the number of good situations. 2339. Do you mean that the classical masters of the High School are receiving less salary than they did before ? — They have been receiving about £100 a year less than they did before these schools were formed; so that there are exceedingly few places in Scotland open to schoolmasters, and the tendency of this is both by example and by actual influence to diminish those posts to which they can rise. 2340. If the senior masters in the Merchant Company's schools were thoroughly well paid, I suppose you would not object so much to the junior masters commencing at a lower rate? — No; only I think they should begin at a decent sum all through. Perhaps I may state what I mean by that. I think, if you are to have a good system of education, the person who is to be the teacher ought to go through a regular system of training for it — to serve an apprenticeship as it were ; and then that implies that he will be worth something before he becomes a regular teacher, just as they do in Germany. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 193 23 1 1. And if you give a small salary, you get in the long run an in- Dr. ferior teacher ?— Yes. Donaldson. 2342. Comparing what the Merchant Company are doing with what Heriot's Hospital are doing in primary schools, are Heriot's Hospital paying proper emoluments to the masters in the primary schools? — They are paying them much better just now : they have raised their salaries within a short time. 2343. They have paid the masters well in their out-door schools ? — Yes ; they pay them well. 2344. What have been the results in those schools ? — There has not been time to know that yet, but the Heriot schools are all under good teachers. 2345. Then you think they are working satisfactorily ? — They are working very fairly ; but with regard to the working of these schools, you find there again that nothing can be done satisfactorily unless you put the whole education in the town under one body, because a number of the other primary schools complain very much of the effect which the Heriot schools have had upon them. They have adopted the same system as the Merchant Company, of drafting away the best pupils from the private schools in their neighbourhood. 234C. If there were any large extension of the Heriot out-door schools, that would interfere very much with the work of the School Board ? — Yes, unless you embrace the whole under the School Board. 2347. And on that ground again, for primary, as well as for secondary education, you wish to see the whole under one board ? — Yes ; that diffi- culty meets you wherever you go. 2348. I believe the reports on the Merchant Company's schools have generally been favourable to them ? — I have not examined them, but I believe they have. But then there is this to be considered with regard to reports in this case, as in the case of almost all our schools, that the reporters are generally employed by those interested in the success of the schools ; and no man who is employed as an examiner will feel inclined to damage the school, for reporting on which he is paid. Of course he would not say anything false about it, but he would take a mild view of it. I know myself, from the way in which we stand to our examiners, that they are perfectly honest ; but if you get a certain sum paid to you by a body of men for reporting on a school in which they feel an interest, it would be very shabby to state in the full blaze of light everything exactly that could be said .about the matter. I have felt that difficulty myself. I have been asked within the last year to examine a number of the burgh schools throughout the country ; and when I am asked to do so by the Town Council, and paid by them, I have no hesitation in stating the exact facts of the case ; but if I were asked by the masters, or by people having a special interest in the school, that would be a different thing- altogether. 2349. Then if you were responsible for taking any action about these schools, you would think it necessary to inform yourself more fully about them than by these reports? — Decidedly. Without at all questioning the propriety or truth of the reports, I should like to know more particu- larly how the thing stands. 2350. If there were bursaries at your own High School, should you be afraid of competition for them of boys from other schools ? — Certainly not. There were five bursaries on which I was a trustee under Dr. Sibbald's trust, and I wanted to throw them open, as I would throw them all open. 2351. You would not be afraid of the test applied to your school by N 194 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. boys from other schools coming to compete ? — No ; I think if the school • could not stand that test, it deserved to fall. 2352. Do you think the Merchant Company's schools, with their great endowments, ought to be afraid of the test of competing with other schools ! — No. 2353. Ought there not to be sufficient inducement for the parents to send their children there, without giving that further inducement of limit- ing the bursaries to their scholars ? — I think so. 2354. Did the Heriot's Hospital limit their bursaries in the same way ? — They drew up a scheme in which they limited a certain number of them to Edinburgh, and a certain number were for schools in the country. Now I propose that they should all be thrown open. 2355. Those which were limited to Edinburgh were for schools in Edinburgh, other than those connected with educational institutions falling within the scope of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act ? — I did not notice that, but at one time we had them specially for the High School. 2350. Looking at the general interests of higher education in Edin- burgh, is it for those interests that bodies like the Merchant Company and Heriot's Hospital should limit their bursaries each to their own schools ? — No. In fact, what we want in Edinburgh is what they have got in most other places. I have seen a magnificent exhibition of this kind in Paris, at the Sorbonne, where all the Lycees in Paris and round about it competed for certain prizes, and the University delivered these prizes to the successful competitors. Of course the Lycees were under Govern- ment supervision, but there were private schools among the competitors ; and I think such a competition in a considerably wide sphere would be an immense advantage to the schools here. 2357. These funds are considered to be specially intended for the benefit of Edinburgh ; would you go so far as to throw the bursaries open to competition of boys coming to Edinburgh from other parts of the country? — Decidedly. I would have no restriction in a case like that. The only restriction would possibly be that of age, but I don't know if that would be worth making. You will sometimes find a man of 25 competing with a boy of 15, but that is comparatively rare ; and I don't think it would be worth legislating for these exceptional instances. 2358. If it were proposed to give some bursaries for Edinburgh, and some for the rest of Scotland, would you think it a better arrangement to throw them all open ? — Yes ; I would throw them all open, and let us see what each school could do, wherever the boys come from. 2359. Mr. Sellar. — Not confining them even to Scotland? — No. I would not be inclined to confine them even to Scotland. 2360. Mr. Parker. — Taking a large view of Scotland, do you think it would be well to bring boys up from all parts of the country to Edin- burgh to compete for bursaries ? — I don't know about that. I think that, so far as the other parts of Scotland are concerned, it would not be good, because I think it is well to have various centres of intellectual culture ; that is to say, I would like to see a stronger centre of culture in Dundee, for instance, than there is, and so in Aberdeen. I don't think it would be an advantage, so far, to bring them all to Edinburgh. 2361. But taking Dundee as a centre, you would use funds that are already in Dundee ; and taking Edinburgh as a centre, you would use Edinburgh funds? — Decidedly ; only, if I found that the funds in Edin- burgh were too large for the purpose, — for it is possible to have too large endowments, although we have had nothing like that in Scotland MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 105 as yet, — I think you might distribute some of them in other parts of the country. 2362. Do you think public opinion would go as far as that ? — No. I think the Edinburgh people are very anxious that the funds should be kept to Edinburgh ; and that appears to be especially the feeling in the Town Council. 2363. But they might perhaps go as far as to allow boys from other parts of the country to compete for bursaries here ? — That is a different thing. I think they would not object to any Scotchman competing at any rate, nor, I think, to any Englishman either. 2364. Mr. Sellar. — In comparing the Heriot and the Merchant Com- pany's schemes, what are the chief points of your disapprobation ? — I do not disapprove of the one as compared with the other. They ought to fight it out among themselves, if they are going to act as private indi- viduals ; but I believe the only proper way of carrying on education is a public one. If you do not do that, you will have eternal contests ; and the stronger the contests, the sooner they will bring about the result that will lead you to adopt the public method. 2365. Did you form the opinion that the Heriot scheme would have the effect of underselling the Merchant Company's schools ? — Yes ; it would do that. It would have taken the boys from the Merchant Company's schools to themselves unquestionably. They made the fee lower, and they intended the education to be for a lower class. 2366. Do you mean that it seemed to be intended to undersell the Merchant Company? — I would not attribute any motives to them. I have no right to do so. They say themselves that they had prepared their scheme before the Merchant Company's was ready. I don't know that ; but they would both naturally fall upon the same scheme in dealing with a question like that, acting individually ; and then, when they fall upon the same scheme, they clash. 2367. Are you aware that the Merchant Company have increased the salaries of their masters of late ? — I know the head classical master gets £300 instead of £200. 2368. You said the objection to the scheme was, that there were no prizes to the teachers in the Edinburgh schools? — There are not absolutely no prizes, but they are very few. 2360. Do you not know that the head master of each of these schools has a very large salary? — Yes; but he need not be a teacher at all; he is a pure manager. So far as I understand, — and, of course, I only speak from my limited information, — he is merely the manager. I know that in France they have actually a man who is not a teacher at all who performs the same function. 2370. The provision in the Provisional Order is that the head master of the school over which he presides shall be appointed by and hold his office at the pleasure of the governors, and shall be responsible for the efficient working of the school ? — Yes ; but a business man may do it almost as well as a teacher. 2371. Do you think any one but a teacher could be responsible for the efficient working of the school ? — It is difficult to say. We know that a good many of the head masters in private schools in England are men who know very little of education. 2372. You said you had examined several burgh schools recently : which schools were these? — I examined Dunfermline Academy, nnd Elgin Academy, and Forfar Academy. These were the three principal ones. 2373. Did you take any note of the emoluments that existed in thesi academies ? — I made inquiry about them at the time, but I have not got 196 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. them with me. The impression produced on my mind, however, was that Donaldson, there is an extreme need for funds for secondary education ; in fact, all the recommendations that I had to give must be frustrated from the want of funds. Then I know Stirling very well ; I was there for some time ; and I know that there was a deficiency there. At one time, from the Education Commissioners' Report I drew up a list of the salaries of all the masters, and it was really miserable. 2374. Do you know what the total amount of endowment for the burgh schools is ? — I believe between £2000 and £3000 is the very utmost of it for the whole of Scotland. 2375. How many burgh schools are there in receipt of that £2000 or £3000 ? — I cannot say. I could have got that all ready if I had thought of it ; but my personal impression is very strong as to the great need there is for endowments. 2376. Perhaps you could send the Commission some such statement? — Yes, I can send them the facts of the case. 2377. Will you do so with regard to the three schools you have men- tioned, and will you state any other facts bearing on the endowments of middle-class schools in Scotland with which you are practically conversant? — Yes ; but I may state that, for lack of endowments, such schools are almost unable to adopt modern systems of education. They are depen- dent to a large extent upon their fees ; and the consequence of that is, that the interests of the masters often clash. 2378. Do you mean that they must have large classes to begin with ? — Yes, or one master may have a large class, and another may not. For instance, the difficulty in Elgin Academy arose from one master taking the pupils from another master's class. 2379. Do you mean that there was a struggle for the boys? — Yes, a regular struggle. In the case of the Forfar Academy, I was called in because there had been a deadly quarrel between some of the masters ; and there again it was about fees, and they were actually fighting for their livelihood. That is the case in a great number of the middle-class schools, where, owing to the want of endowments, and to the fact that they have no regular salaries, but have to rely upon the fees, the institutions get broken up, as it were, into different parties, and they are not in a healthy state. 2380. In the High School, do you consider that you could, with endowments, reorganize it in such a way as to improve education ? — Yes, vastly. The fact is, that just now there does not exist in Scotland, so far as I can see, a single institution corresponding to a gymnasium in Germany. In the High School and the Academy, and other schools of that class, we are forced in one and the same school to suit the demands of those who are going to the University and to a profession, and those who are going into business. Now, if I had funds in the High School, I would say : ' Here is my complete classical side ; you will get a thorough liberal education here. And here is my thorough business side.' But that can only be done with funds. 2381. The main difficulties which you see arising from the want of funds are the necessity of having large classes, and the necessity for this struggle between departments for fees ? — Yes. 2382. . Are there any others ? — There is the impossibility of organizing the departments thoroughly. 2383. The Chairman. — Is that the case in the High School, that each master receives his fees for his class independently ? — Within the last six years an attempt has been made to have a different state of affairs, but it has not made very much difference. The plan we take is, that each master gets a certain sum out of the slump fee for each pupil that he has. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 197 2384. Then you do not feel that evil so much in the High School as it is felt in some other schools ? — We feel it iu this way, — that suppose I were attempting a change of system, one man would immediately com- plain that I was taking away pupils from him. For instance, I have no doubt myself that if we are to have good schools, there ought to be a system of examination and of transferring from one class into another ; but if I were to attempt that, I would take, say, £20 or £30 out of one master's pocket and put into the pocket of some other body. I have tried that to a certain extent, but it has to be done with a very gentle hand. 2385. Mr. Sellar. — Do you know that the Merchant Company have attempted to do that ? — They can do it, and with success. 2386. And it is in that direction that their scheme has gone? — Yes. They have gone almost altogether in the right direction, so far as their schemes of education go, except on one point, I think, where they have mistaken a principle. It is a very good principle that the bursaries should be distributed irrespective of anything but merit ; but they have made their admissions to the school a matter of merit, — that is to say, they have made it essential that a boy shall pass an examination before he gets education from them at all. Now, I think, with charitable funds, the best thing to do is to give a good education, as far as they possibly can, even to the stupidest. I have a great feeling for the stupid boys, and I think a good deal could be done for them if they were fairly treated ; but to reject a stupid boy absolutely and entirely, is, I think, a pretty strong measure where charity is given. 2387. Do you know the aggregate amount that the Merchant Company spend in salaries in a year ? — Yes. It has been stated again and again by Mr. Boyd and Mr. Knox ; but you have to take into account there, that there are certain branches which they must pay well for, such as dancing, and music, and French. Some of these subjects are well paid : they cannot get them unless they are well paid. 2388. Mr. Ramsay. — Has the effect of the competition for scholars in the burgh schools been to reduce the fees below the point at which they would pay the teachers ? — To pay the teachers is a peculiar term. 2389. Has the effect been to lower the fees? — No; the competition amongst themselves has been rather the opposite way. The peculiarity in the burgh schools is, that the amount of fees has been fixed at a very early stage in Scottish history — perhaps 200 or 300 years ago, — and gradually the fee has been getting larger in amount, but at a compara- tively slow rate in comparison with the price of things and the decrease in the value of money ; so that the teachers in the burgh schools really do not get anything like the sum that we might expect them to get. 2390. Then I understand you to say that the supply of the means for secondary education is very deficient in Scotland as a whole ? — Not the supply, but the position of the teacher. The position of the teacher is such that you cannot expect to have what I would call a first-rate system of education. There is this in it, I think, that almost every man that I know who has gone into burgh school teaching has gone accidentally, or has been driven into it by chance. His heart may ultimately get into it, but that is the accident of the case. Now, if there is to be a national system, the situation could be made such that a man could look forward to it and train for it, and could go in as an experienced teacher, — that is to say, with all the knowledge, and intelligence, and knowledge of methods which a teacher ought to have. 2391. Then, on the whole, you think that teachers are not sufficiently qualified for the positions which they occupy ? — I should not like to put it in that way. 198 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. 2392. Does your argument not lead to that ? — The system might lead lalds oa. ^ 0 resu ]t . b u t there are exceptional and occasional cases on which I would not like to pronounce so strongly. For instance, just now, if they feel that they cannot go into the church, able men may turn into the schools, and be good teachers ; but the same man would have been better qualified if he had looked forward to the profession of teacher as one which he was to follow through life. 2393. Then do those who administer these schools find a difficulty iu procuring men of sufficient attainments ? — It is difficult to say whether they have got sufficient attainments or not ; but what I mean is this. In Germany they demand that the teacher shall not only be able to teach the principal branches, but that he shall always be investigating something new for himself. They make him write his programme annually, or something like that, in order to show that he is taking a living interest in the progress of knowledge. 2394. He is a student as well as a teacher? — Yes; whereas, in this country, if a man is only a good, energetic teacher, nothing more is ex- pected of him ; but if you compare the German teachers and our teachers, and their circumstances, you will see that there is a very great difference between them. 2395. Have you considered how far it would be expedient to provide for these deficiencies by applying the funds of institutions such as you have in Edinburgh to the promotion of secondary education elsewhere? — Of course I do not know how much the funds are, but it would be an extremely good use to apply them to ; and I may say that the necessity for their use in some such way will appear more and more, because, owing to the vast spread of commerce amongst us, and the apparent advantages that commerce has, our professions will become thinner and thinner. As an illustration of that, I may mention that while ten years ago I might have four or five boys in my class who were willing to become teachers, now I have not a single one who would dream of becoming a teacher ; and I think you will find that, unless circumstances change in our country, the number of teachers will become less and less. 2396. Will that not lead those who have the appointment of teachers to give higher salaries ? — That will be too late, because, in order to have good teachers, you must begin at an early stage. You cannot get men in an instant to become teachers; and if a boy does not see a clear way before him for a profession in this direction, he will not train for it. 2397. Is that deficiency so much felt yet as to induce those who have charge of schools to consider it ? — The difficulty there is, that you will not get a body like a town council to consider the question. It must be done by a body of able, educated men, who have a charge of the whole thing, and are prepared to act accordingly. For instance, they would like a good man for a place like Forfar Academy, but they merely advertise for him ; they cannot prepare him. 2398. Would the granting of higher class certificates attain the object you have in view ? — Yes, to a certain extent ; but you won't get men to take higher class certificates unless you give them a higher prospect, and you won't get men of ability to go in for a profession where, say, £100 or £200 a year is the ultimate object. 2399. Do you think that affects other professions than the teaching profession ? — It has affected the clergy much. 2400. And the bar, for instance, and solicitors ? — The bar in some respects is quite different, because they have considerable privileges and prospects beyond ; but in education in Scotland, the teacher of a burgh school has nothing to look for beyond the burgh school, unless it be the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 199 University, and he has little chance there. In England such a man may become Archbishop of Canterbury ; but in Scotland there is really no prospect for him beyond the burgh school. He will never make money ; he will never become rich ; he will simply have to remain during his whole life in that school. We are peculiarly situated in that respect in Scotland, because there is no outlet for the teachers. If the English schools were thrown open, — that is to say, if they were not given to English Church- men, as many of them are, — there might be a difference. As it is, the Scotch schools are open to the whole of England ; but we cannot go there to any great extent, and the prospects of Scotch schoolmasters are very limited. 2401. The schools in England are, in fact, shut to Scotch teachers? — Yes. 2402. While the schools in Scotland are open to teachers from England ? —Yes. 2403. You would not propose to alter that system with regard to the Scotch schools? — Decidedly not. I would propose to alter it on the English side, but not on the Scotch side. 2404. And you think that, w 7 ith additional funds, education in this country might be very much advanced by increasing the emoluments of the teachers ? — Yes. 2405. You would not propose to do that by advancing the rate of fees charged for the attendance of the scholars ? — Not to any great extent. In some places it might be done, because in some schools the fees are extremely low. If you could provide some scheme by which any scholar, however poor, might get into a better school, I would not care although it w T as done by advancing the rate of fees considerably. The true idea about that, I think, seems to be this : Suppose you were to give to any place, such as the Stirling burgh school, a certain sum as an endowment for the school, or to admit a certain number of scholars for nothing, by competition, — I mean from the poorer classes, — that would be a better plan than giving them bursaries merely at that stage, because you make a certain endowment for the teacher, whose influence will go over the whole of the pupils, and at the same time you will effect the object which you have in view of securing a classical education to every poor boy who is fit for it. 240G. You would propose, in fact, that the teacher of the grammar school should be paid in respect of poor scholars ? — Yes, but paid by per- manent endowment, so that the man could look forward to it. It would elevate his position at the same time that it would do good to the boys. 2407. Mr. Sellar. — Have you considered at all the question of training schools for higher class teachers ? — I think it would be a vast advantage, and I know it in my own experience. When I went as rector of the Stirling grammar school, the first two years, although outwardly success- ful, were in reality anything but a success. I was struggling on with wrong methods; but since that time I have given my attention to the science of education, and I know the difference between myself then and what I am now. 2408. Mr. Ramsay. — That is, as to the mode of imparting instruction ? — Yes, and so as to act judiciously upon the whole mind. The teacher, at an early stage, may really give his pupil as much information of the particular kind required as one who had received a higher training. He would not generally do it so satisfactorily, but he may ; but in the whole effect upon the boy's mind, his instruction has a crude effect. I would put it in this way, that suppose he is working upon the lower classes, he would be apt to produce revolution; and on the middle classes lie would 200 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. be apt to produce discontent. He gets into wrong methods of thought, laldson. an( i \ lG j g irregular in his action. 2409. Mr. Sellar. — Is not the improvement which you have felt in yourself the result of your practice in teaching and your experience ? — I I think experience has a great deal to do with it ; but I think experience without a knowledge of the science of teaching does not go for very \ much. ' 2410. Would you approve of a system of imparting instruction in training, such as they have in our normal schools ? — Not exactly as in our normal schools, but such as they have in Germany. 2411. Mr. Parker. — Have they normal schools for higher teaching in Prussia ? — There are establishments there called pddagogische Seminaritn. There is one in Berlin in which about 10 or 20 persons intended for teachers in the gymnasiums are trained, and there is another famous school at Halle. 2412. But that is for classics? — Yes. The Philological Seminar is for classics. 2413. And the others are mostly for specialties? — Yes ; but in a sense they are all specialties. 2414. In fact they don't think you can train teachers for the whole circle of liberal education at one place ? — No. 2415. It must be done bit by bit at different places? — Yes ; but at the same time a teacher in a gymnasium is only the teacher of one subject, with a general knowledge of other subjects. 2416. But a normal school for higher instruction in Prussia would not be a school for all branches, but for one branch at Berlin, and another perhaps at Halle ? — Yes ; they might be quite separate in that respect. There are two sets of Seminarien. The one connected with the uni- versities is for special subjects ; in the other, pddagogische Seminarien, experienced teachers of gymnasia instruct the students in the practical art of teaching. 2417. And each teacher would go where his specialty was taught'? — Yes. But in Scotland, if you are to have instruction for teachers of burgh schools, it would need to be extremely limited, because there would be so few of them. The number of teachers required each year is comparatively small. I would say that if you have perhaps ten or twelve each year, you would have all that would be required. 2418. Mr. Sellar. — Would not these ten- or twelve acquire sufficient practice by spending a certain time in the ordinary normal school ? — No. For instance, the teaching of Latin is really a matter of great difficulty, and the Germans have a number of books specially on that subject ; and I think it is only a man who is thoroughly up to Latin, and who at the same time is pedagogic, as they call it, who is capable of teaching it properly. 2419. Is there not always a risk that that sort of training produces mechanical teaching ? — Yes, unless you add the other thing which the Germans demand, — the writing out of your programme. Unquestionably a power of investigation is more adapted in the end to produce good men than merely the knowledge of training ; but there is no reason why they should not both exist. Dr. W. Graham, examined. Dr. 2420. The Chairman. — You are the head of an institution for young ahaw, ladies in Edinburgh? — I was connected with the Scottish Institution in MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 201 Moray Place for nearly forty years. I was not the head of it, but I was the secretary for a long time, and one of the directors from the opening to the close. 2421. You were not the head master of the institution? — No ; I was one of the directors. 2422. Were you one of the original founders of it? — Yes. 2423. For what class was that institution founded? — When we began, the institution was attended by what we call the middle classes of Edin- burgh, and some of the higher classes also. Some of the Lords of Session, for instance, had their daughters with us ; but a great number who came to us were from the country — the daughters, perhaps, of gentle- men farmers, clergymen, etc. A good many came from England. The school then consisted of perhaps about 120 as an average number ; but one half of those who attended were not from Edinburgh, but were from the country. 2424. Is it an institution for boarding as well as for education ? — The lady superintendent had boarders, sometimes as many as 30 or 40. The institution does not exist now. 2425. When did it come to an end? — Last year we were brought to an untimely end, partly, we think, by the establishment of the Merchant Company's schools. The year after their establishment, we went on ; but we suffered a great loss, and we were obliged to give it up. In fact it was never an institution that paid a very great deal, — the expenses were so great, especially for music. When 30 pupils were withdrawn out of 100, there was no profit at all. 2426. Before the Merchant Company's schools were established, how many pupils had you? — Betwixt 90 and 100. 2427. So that you were not able to carry on the institution with a reduction of 30 ? — No. The profit lay entirely upon the 30. 2428. But it had larger numbers before that, had it not? — Sometimes 120, and sometimes 100. I would say that 110 was the average number during the 38 years it lasted. 2429. Did it begin with considerable numbers? — The first year we had only 40 or 50. There were ten proprietors originally, and all these ten were directors and teachers ; but in the course of time some of them died, and the directorate then fell into the hands of three or four. When it was given up, I was one of three directors ; they had fallen down to that number. And then we employed the teachers ; and we had a lady superin- tendent, whom we paid very well ; we paid her £200 a year. 2430. Have you any statement to make with reference to the operation of the Merchant Company's schools in the education of Edinburgh ? — I think the money was not applied to its proper purpose when it was em- ployed in teaching the wealthier classes of Edinburgh ; and I certainly was astonished that the gentlemen who were the means of establishing these schools should have used such efforts to bring in these classes, by soliciting, and by going about and mentioning that such and such a per- son of respectability attended their schools. That certainly had the effect of bringing in a number who would otherwise have gone to other schools. 2431. You mean that the Merchant Company's schools are not con- fined to the middle classes ? — They are not confined to them entirely. 2432. You are speaking now with reference to the ladies' schools? — Yes ; to the ladies' schools entirely. I also think the education which was given in the institutions was a higher education than is given in the Merchant Company's schools. I may say that there were several other institutions in Edinburgh than ours. There was one in Charlotte Square, the Edinburgh Institution ; and the Ladies' Institution in the southern 202 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. part of the town. There were three establishments in Edinburgh all together of the same nature : there were also boarding schools and private schools in which the course of instruction was similar to that of the institutions. 2433. Have these other institutions ceased also? — No. The one in Charlotte Square is flourishing, but the one in the southern district was greatly affected by the establishment of the Merchant Company's schools. 2434. And it has not recovered from that ? — No ; I don't think it has. 2435. Do you consider that the establishment of the Merchant Com- pany's schools has been an injury to Edinburgh? — I do. I think they lower the tone of education in Edinburgh very much. I think they are not encouraging the employment of capable, accomplished teachers, because the salaries they give in these schools are so low, that, in fact, no lad of talent would enter upon the teaching profession with such a view before him. No doubt there are one or two, the head masters of these schools, who are well paid ; but the great majority of the under teachers are cer- tainly under-paid. 2436. Do you think the education of Edinburgh was better provided for before by a number of private schools ? — I think so ; especially with regard to ladies. Further, I think the congregation of 1300 girls in one establishment is not a thing to be desired. I have had great experience in teaching ladies. I taught in many boarding schools in Edinburgh, and they were well attended ; and in these schools there were never more than perhaps 30 or 40 together at a time. It certainly requires great care to manage 30 or 40 ladies; and I cannot understand how 1200 or 1400 girls can be convened into one establishment, and proper supervision exercised over them. 2437. You are speaking now of boarding schools ? — Yes. 2438. But this large educational establishment is principally a day school ? — Yes. 2439. Then your objection does not apply to bringing these large numbers together when they are in a day school ? — Not to the same extent; but still there is a great deal of intercourse between the girls in these schools. Besides, the institutions I have mentioned were only partly boarding schools, because, while the lady superintendents had large num- bers of boarders attending them, there were other pupils as well. 2440. The education furnished by the Merchant Company's schools is at a lower rate than was supplied by the private establishments ? — Very much lower. 2441. And that is so far an advantage to the public? — Yes; it is an advantage to a certain class, I admit. 2442. But you object to the system, that there are dangers arising from it in bringing such large numbers together, independent of the teaching ? — I think, as regards ladies' schools, it is not desirable that there should be such a number brought together ; for I cannot fancy what efficient superintendence there can be over them with the present arrangements. 2443. You have not inspected these schools ? — I have not. 2444. Then you are speaking more from your own experience of schools than from any experience or knowledge you have of those of the Merchant Company? — I am speaking entirely from my own experience. There is one thing I would say, however, with regard to the teaching in these schools. With regard to music, I cannot conceive how they can teach at all by teaching seven girls at a time. W r hen the Scottish Insti- tution was established, we tried something of the same kind, because the expense of the music was so great. The system we adopted was what is called the system of Logier. a person in Paris, who conducted classes MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 203 there on that system. We tried it for a year, or a year and a half ; hut we had to give it up, because the public were not satisfied with it. I never heard any person yet who maintained that the system of teaching seven ladies at a time was a proper system ; but the Merchant Company were compelled to adopt it, because they could not afford the expense of teaching them singly. 2445. In the case in which you had experience, how many did they attempt to teach together? — Six or seven, I think. They were taught by the same pianist at the same time ; but it was given up. I suspect the gentlemen who now conduct the music in the Merchant Company's schools never taught upon that principle before. They teach it there now. because they are in a manner compelled to do it ; but I rather think they would not choose to teach their private pupils on that system. We complain also of the suddenness with which the new schools were got up ; there was not sufficient warning given. Another thing we had to complain of was, that the gentlemen who were acting in the formation of these schools asserted and maintained publicly that they would not injure the existing schools of Edinburgh. They were more limited at first in their views than they afterwards became. I think the newspapers of the time will show that the speeches made by these gentlemen lulled the teachers asleep ; and, as a proof of that, I may mention that in the very year when these schools were to be established, I bought a school in Edinburgh for my own daughters at a great expense. I suffered a very great loss in consequence. I merely mention this as a proof that I did not suppose these schools would do the amount of harm they have done. 244G. Have you any other remark to make with reference to the effect of the establishment of these schools on private teachers in Edinburgh ? — I could easily mention many who have been ruined by these schools ; mauy schools have gone down in consequence. I may mention that Mr. Wilson, who was to have been here to-night, wrote to give me an account of many schools in the southern district that had been ruined ; and even in Edinburgh these schools have hurt not merely institutions, but they have hurt what are called private schools. 2447. We want to hear from you any statement you have to make as to injury done to the public teaching generally by the establishment of these schools, rather than anything connected with the private injury to the different teachers ? — Well, so far as it has gone, it has been the means of injuring a great many efficient teachers, — men who taught in schools resorted to from all parts of Scotland, — because many of the schools in Edinburgh were of such a character as to attract pupils from different parts of the country. Now, many of these schools have been given up. Five or six of the most respectable schools in Edinburgh have suffered ; an tioners were appointed, and also those forming the out-door element admitted to it. 2614. By the selection of the governors? — Yes. 2615. So far as the means available for admission permitted? — Yes; and the proper persons applied. 2616. Is there any other point you wish to state to the Commissioners ? — I may say I am against the breaking up of the institution as a home. I think those who have no home of their own, or worse than none, are better there than they would be elsewhere. The evils of monastic institutions are now with us reduced to a minimum, and very many of the advantages of family life are given. In the evening they have there educational and religious benefits which they could not have elsewhere. For these reasons, and because it would be a wide departure from the spirit of Heriot's will to make his hospital a mere academy, I should like to see it still continued as a home for boys that are really or practically fatherless. I think, too, we might do a good deal for the higher education ; but I do not think that should be clone in the way of endowments either for the High School or for the University, believing as I firmly do that George Heriot's great object was to relieve the poor, but rather in the way of bursaries to boys and girls of ability. However, in giving these bur- saries, I would not have unrestricted competition, which seems to be so much the order of the day now, because then we would really be divert- ing the benefit from the poorer classes, and giving it to those who had had great advantages in early life at home. The moment you have unrestricted competition for bursaries, that moment you are really giving a benefit to those who have had early advantages. In that case I would still take into consideration the poverty of the parents, and the advantages or disadvantages of the scholars in early life. With that qualification, however, I am very strongly in favour of doing probably more than we have yet done for the higher education of the poor ; and among the poor I would have some bursaries for unrestricted competition. 2617. You do not go so far as to say that admission to all the bur- saries should be by selection and not by competition ? — I almost go so far as to say, that in regard to the Heriot bursaries there should be the qualification of poverty ; that you should not be forced to select the person who makes the best appearance, but that you should consider the advantages or disadvantages they have had up to that point. 2618. In the Provisional Order, where it is proposed to extend the number of bursaries, it is stated in regard to a large number of them that they should be awarded by competitive examinations — ' declaring that all these bursaries shall be in connection with the University of Edinburgh, and shall be awarded in all cases except those under " Primo " by competitive examinations.' Do you disapprove of that? — No ; I think competitive examination is most important, but I would also take the circumstances of the parents into account. We have a compe- titive examination for our bursaries at present, but we do not of necessity give a bursary to the person who makes the best appearance. If we find that his parents are perfectly able to maintain him without the bursary, we give the preference to the other. 2619. Then you think these competitive examinations should be modi- fied by the rules of the governors, so as to give them a power of selecting among the competitors those whom they conceive to be best entitled to the bursaries ? — Yes, those who they conceive are the most necessitous, if the governors see cause to do so. 2620. The Earl of Bosebery. — When you state that you consider that MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 219 Heriot's bequest was intended for the poor, do you mean the working Kev. Dr. classes, or the generally needy ? — I think the working classes and the Gra y * reduced of the lower middle class have a prior claim, but the generally needy in Edinburgh would have a claim also. George Heriot evidently thinks with gratitude of Edinburgh as his native soil, and as a mark of his gratitude he leaves his bequest to relieve the poor connected with Edinburgh. I think the working classes, who now, in my opinion, very much correspond with the burgesses and freemen then, have a special claim. But there are poor in all classes, and I would not except them. 2621. Would you not be inclined to say that first-class artisans are at the present moment much better off than the lower middle class ? and how therefore could you draw the line of poverty ? — It must always be a difficult matter to draw the line of poverty. We must consider each case as it occurs, and as it is brought before us. 2622. Then you have no absolute definition of the poor ? — You cannot have. 2623. Mr. Parker. — There are some evening classes taught in con- nection with Heriot's trust ? — There are. 2624. How long have they been in operation ? — Only this season. 2625. Are fees taken for the evening classes? — They are proposed to be taken ; but it is a question whether we have the power to charge fees, and that question is now, I believe, submitted to counsel. 2626. I believe the question was submitted to counsel whether you could charge fees at the out-door schools ? — Yes ; and the opinion was that we could not. 2627. Did that not apply to the evening schools as well f — There were differences that made it desirable we should also take the opinion of counsel with regard to the evening classes. 2628. You said there was a resolution to charge fees, if it could be done f — Yes ; that resolution was carried by a majority. 2629. By what majority? — I cannot say by what majority; I forget at this moment. I think there was a majority of about four or five, but I know there was a considerable minority against charging fees. 2630. From your knowledge of the parents, can you state that some of them would prefer paying fees ? — I believe some of them would. 2631. Especially if you were to remove the restriction as to the number of children that could be sent to the school ? — Yes ; if that restriction were removed, they could get all the members of their family sent to the same school. 2632. Have you ever considered what sum of money might be brought in by fees from the out-door schools, if fees were charged ? — That is a matter of calculation. I believe, as I have already stated, that only about one in five could pay nothing. I think that the others might pay a small sum, but very small. I would not be unwilling to give free education to those whose parents' earnings were altogether under 20s. ; and in that case the sum you would get from fees would be very small, because that embraces five out of every six, the average earnings of the parents of all the children admitted to the schools being less than 14s. 2633. When you spoke of the resolution to take fees, was it defined in the resolution from what number of the children fees would be taken ? — That was no part of the resolution ; we only resolved that we would charge some small fees. 2634. I think you incline to the opinion that a low fee might be charged to perhaps four out of every five ? — Yes, or at least to a con- siderable number of our present scholars ; but I am quite willing to do either way. I think that if the fee were fixed at a very low figure, a very 220 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. Dr. considerable number might pay something, provided you included books Gray - in the fee, but those not having more than 20s. a week could not pay both the fee and the books ; and what I mean is, that either you would have to allow those whose earnings were not above 20s. to get in without a fee, and thus there would be only one in five or six who would be able to pay fees, or you would have to make a small fee for all except the very poor, say of a penny or twopence a week, — including books in that. 2635. Which of the two do you think preferable? — As a general rule, I think it is better they should pay a small fee ; and I would therefore do that, and include books in it, reserving of course a discretionary power not to charge fees where the parents were really unable to pay them. 2636. Then it would be easy to calculate the amount that would be brought in by charging fees to four children out of five ? — Yes. 2637. What fee would you take? — A penny or twopence a week; which would not bring in a large sum, if you included books. 2638. The Heriot schools have not the advantage of the Government grant ? — No. 2639. Have they applied for that?— No. 2640. If they received the Government allowance, would that not be a considerable addition to their funds ? — Yes. 2641. And as people in Edinburgh pay their share of taxes, would they not be fairly entitled to a share of grants ? — Yes ; but whether they might apply for it would depend very much upon what was to be done with our surplus. If we are to take part of the Government rate in order to enable us to hand over part of our surplus to some other object, I do not think that would be very fair. It would be asking what we do not need from the Government rate, in order to give away what is our own. 2642. I wish to distinguish between the rate and the tax. The money to which I refer would not come from the rate levied upon Edinburgh? — I understand what you mean. I know the money would come from the imperial tax, and personally I am not opposed to that. 2643. You do not see any difficulty in the way of spending an extra £1000 or £2000, if it were brought in by the Government allowance in that way ? — No ; not if we could carry out our proposed arrangements by means of it. 2644. Do you propose it as an object to undertake the whole education of the humbler classes of Edinburgh without any rate ? — I should like very much if that were possible ; but I am perhaps not a sufficiently prac- tical educational man to say whether it is possible or not, although I should like very much to see it done. 2645. You said you would found some new schools, but you would also take advantage of the existing schools ? — I would rather take advan- tage of existing schools where there is no growing population, and found new schools where there is a growing population of the working classes, so as to interfere as little as possible with the schools that already exist, and are flourishing. 2646. Another expression you used was to affiliate existing schools. Would you explain exactly what you mean by that ? — I mean very much the same thing — to absorb those schools that are already in existence — to take advantage, for instance, of such a school as Bell's School, rather than to set down another school beside it, and to withdraw from it children of the same class, or nearly of the same class, as are already in attendance there. 2647. Then you would send children selected by the Heriot's governors to these schools ? — Yes. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 221 2648. And in return for that, you would probably require a certain Itev. Dr. control over the schools ? — Yes. Gr& J - 2649. Would you require the entire control ? — That might be matter of arrangement ; but I should certainly think that if we undertook the entire responsibility, we might have the entire control, where the funds were wholly contributed by us. 2650. Then you would expend the revenues of the trust chiefly on the needy class? — Yes. 2651. Or entirely? — Yes, almost entirely. I might be inclined, in regard to bursaries for the University of Edinburgh, to give a few for absolutely unrestricted competition; but as to the great bulk of the revenues, I certainly think they are for behoof of the poor. 2652. But you do not think they should be spent wholly on elementary education ? — No ; I feel very strongly that while they are for the benefit of the poor, and chiefly the poor of Edinburgh, yet these revenues should not be spent for primary education only, but that, for the benefit of girls especially, for whom so little has been done, we should seek to give them something higher than they have. There is no proper arrangement existing for that at present ; for, as I have already stated, when they come to be thirteen years of age or so, their struggling parents feel they are more difficult to maintain and clothe, and even a few shillings a week are of great consequence to them. The result is, that at this moment a number of very hopeful scholars I have known in connection with these schools, have gone home, or gone where their education is of no further benefit to them. 2653. To devote funds to higher education is not necessarily to take them from the poor ? — No. 2654. It would be a confusion, you think, to take higher education to mean education of higher classes ? — I think so. 2655. Do you think it desirable that the Heriot's governors should found schools for that higher education ? — I think so. 2656. Rather than take advantage of existing schools? — I do not know any schools that would quite meet our views. For instance, with regard to boys, and indeed also for girls, at this moment I know of no technical school of the kind I should like to see very much in Edinburgh. 2657. Then a technical school would be a special case, and you would propose to found a school of that kind ? — I think that technical education should be the chief characteristic of one of the schools that we would found. 2658. Would you specify what you would include in technical education for the poorer classes, — what kind of thing would you teach ? — That is a difficult question ; but I think the particular sciences with which they have to do in the different arts and trades would be of great consequence, and that a knowledge of chemistry, natural philosophy, arithmetic, mathe- matics, drawing, and other things would come to be specially appropriate and important. 2659. At what age would you propose they should enter such a school? — When they leave our juvenile schools. 2660. That is, at the age of thirteen? — Yes, or earlier. 2661. If you founded such a technical school, would you admit children of the richer classes upon payment ? — Certainly ; I think that would be a great advantage to the community, and would probably bring others into Edinburgh for the sake of sharing in that advantage. 2662. Besides a technical school, you would, I suppose, have higher schools for liberal education ? — Yes. At the same time I would be willing to have certain bursaries for our present High School, so that those who 222 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Kev. Dr. left our schools might, if they wished, go there ; but I would also open Gra y - our present hospital for those connected with our foundation schools who might have superior abilities and were desirous of receiving a liberal pro- fessional education, and also for children of a higher class on paying moderately for it. For instance, there are in Edinburgh many widows of professional men, and of persons who have occupied a good position, who would wish to give their sons a liberal education, but cannot. We have good teaching there, and it could be given on payment of a fee ; and I think the introduction of that out- door element would of itself do a great deal of good. I know that architecturally there may be difficulties in the way of that being done ; but without taking very large classes, I think that an out-door element might be introduced with advantage. 2663. You think the hospital might be made a higher school? — Yes; we have a good staff there which might be made use of, and it might be an advantage to the boys, because there is an element of passiveness in all hospital boys which needs to be somewhat helped on. 2664. Do you think the High School is the only school to which bur- saries might be given for your boys ? — No, but I think the High School, being mentioned in George Heriot's will, has a special claim on us. I should like in everything to carry out the spirit of his will. 2665. George Heriot distinctly contemplated carrying on a liberal edu- cation for those children ? — Yes. 2666. And in fact, I think, he named it before the apprenticeships? — Possibly. 2667. The grammar school is mentioned first, and then the apprentice- ships? — Yes; and that is exactly what I should do. I would give a higher education to those who really had the capacity, and to the others I would give apprentice fees. 2668. You say that by and by you would look forward to under- taking the whole education, both lower and higher, of the working classes in Edinburgh? — Yes. Our resources are great and considerably increased, and are likely to increase more and more. 2669. Do you consider that the Merchant Company's schools have taken a different line, and would not be in competition with you in any way ? — No, I think not. I was one of those who went up at first in connection with the Endowed Institutions Act. I was sent up by the Merchant Company at that time, being a governor there, although I was also a governor of Heriot's Hospital. We talked the matter over then ; and our agreement was, that they should provide a thorough education for the middle class, and that we should provide the same for the poorer classes, from the very lowest to the highest branches, setting them down at the gates of the University, — we, as it were, in third-class carriages, and they in second-class carriages. 2670. When you say setting them down at the gates of the University, do you mean you would place them there with the entrance fee? — Undoubtedly. 2671. And you would spend money freely to bring on to the University any boys that you thought specially fitted for it ? — Yes, freely. I hold a strong opinion upon that point, although I think it is only a very small percentage that should receive a liberal education ; but wherever Provi- dence had so endowed them, I would spend money very freely upon them. 2672. You said you would not have unrestricted competition in your system ? — Yes ; I am decidedly opposed to that as a rule. As a matter of necessity, I would certainly have competition, but competition, keeping in view the great object of George Heriot, which was to relieve the poor. 2673. That would apply, I suppose, specially to the first entrance only MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 223 to your schools ? — Yes ; in so far as our owu bursaries were concerned, it Eev. Dr. would apply to the entrants, but it would apply to a certain extent to the Gra y- other bursaries as well, because we contemplate giving bursaries not only to those connected with our own schools, but to others in Edinburgh educational institutions, and to others again all over Scotland, or any- where. 2674. When boys had remained at the elementary schools up to the age of thirteen, and were about to pass from them to the University or High School, would you still object to unrestricted competition among the boys in your own schools ? — I would still reserve a discretionary power on the part of the governors to give a preference to particular boys according to their circumstances. But as a rule, then, I think, competition might be practically unrestricted, because they had all had equal advantages. 2675. Don't you think it would lead to considerable disappointment, if boys who had been brought up together in the primary schools were not allowed to stand on an equal footing, to compete for bursaries there ? — I think I have already said with regard to bursaries for our own schools, that I do not think there would be any difficulty in having unrestricted competition. It is only where persons who are not needy apply that the restriction comes in. 2676. In your primary schools the number of children who are well-to- do would be so small, that practically you need not have restriction ? — No, unless the circumstances of their parents had very much improved. 2677. Then, passing on to the technical school, you said you would admit children of the upper classes at their own expense ? — Yes. 2678. How long would they remain there? — From the age of thirteen, till, probably, about sixteen or seventeen. 2679. Would there be any bursaries for them, to stimulate competition? — I should like that we had bursaries there too, or something that would enable them to travel and see the technical colleges in other countries, which are superior to our own. I would endeavour to give them help in that way. 2680. At the age of seventeen, having had advantages up to that time at the expense of George Heriot, do you think the poorer boys ought to be qualified to compete with other boys in the school ? — I think so. 2681. So that to these boys, leaving at seventeen, you might perhaps give the travelling bursaries in competition also ? — Yes ; but only if they were in needy circumstances, seeing the funds do not belong to boys or girls because they are clever, unless they are also poor. 2682. In the Provisional Order it is proposed to spend a certain sum in bursaries for Edinburgh University? — Yes. 2683. Have you paid any attention to that question? — I would pro- bably leave Bailie Tawse to speak to that, except in a general way. 2684. Are you aware that in the disposition drawn up by George Heriot — not his actual will — he spoke of the whole of Scotland as being partly in his mind, in the case of the failure of his intentions in Edinburgh ? — Yes, but observe how anxious he was that this event should not happen. He says — 1 that give the saidis Provest and Bailies and Counsall of Edinburgh, or thair successouris, shall failyie (as God forbid).' Then the other was a penalty ; and the same with regard to St. Andrews. It was not so much an alternative as a penalty in case of failure of what he was most anxious for. And even with regard to St. Andrews, it was still the poor, for it was 4 puire scholleris ' that were to be helped. Still, so far as I am concerned, I would have no objection to have certain bur- saries that might be available for either University, for St. Andrews as well as Edinburgh. 224 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Dr. 2685. But instead of failure there has been success ? — Yes ; and I think Gra 7- it would now be a terrible penalty on Edinburgh, seeing that the mana- gers have done so much to make it valuable, and after others have left so much money to add to the trust — about £8000, because George Heriot was not the only founder ; he left £23,000, but others have left £8000 in addition to that, — I say it would be a severe penalty on Edinburgh to take the funds away from it now. 2686. But if, in place of contemplating failure, George Heriot had con- templated success to the extent of the present greatly increased revenues of the trust, do you think he would have had any difficulty about some part of the benefit going to others ? — No ; and I think the fact that he left ten bursaries open to anybody, shows he was a man of catholic mind. 2687. When he left these ten bursaries, of course he contemplated a definite proportion of his whole means 1 — These bursaries were only for £5 each, and we have now made them £20 ; but I think that even in these bursaries he had Edinburgh in view, because he restricted them to Edin- burgh University. 2688. I suppose the mere change in the value of money would almost bind you to make the bursaries larger ? — Yes ; we felt bound to enlarge them on that account. 2689. But besides that, what proportion of the whole he gave to bur- saries, and what proportion to other purposes ? — Yes ; I think, if you ask me, it was a defect in the Act of 1836 that it did not ask power to give some bursaries. 2690. Therefore, in going to Parliament for further powers, you would see no objection to a somewhat liberal extension of these bursaries ? —No. 2691. Or to their being, as they are now, open to the whole of Scotland ? — I think these should be. 2692. There is one restriction in the Provisional Order, that these bur saries should be open to the rest of Scotland, with the exception of boys educated in endowed schools ? — Yes ; the reason for that was, that the Merchant Company had asked for a Provisional Order as well as our- selves, and there was no reason why we should be burdened for their relief. 2693. Probably the Merchant Company's schools were chiefly in your view in making that exception? — No doubt they were chiefly in view, for we should never think of refusing the benefit of the bursaries to those schools which have small endowments in other parts of the country. 2694. You think it was not intended to refuse the benefit of these bur- saries to other endowed schools in Scotland ? — No. 2695. And supposing that, in addition to these university bursaries, the Merchant Company were willing to give their fair share of bursaries, open without restriction to the Heriot schools, and that Heriot's trust were giving a fair share of bursaries, do you think there would be any objection to throwing the two into one, and having them competed for by boys from both schools, so as to bring about freer competition ? — I think I should prefer that the Heriot's bursaries should be kept by them- selves, and that we should have the control of them. 2696. And that each should mutually exclude the other from their bursaries ? — In the particular case of the Merchant Company's schools, where they have very large capital, and are perfectly able to maintain the scholars whom they have, and to carry them forward, I think it would be a pity that they should come to us for assistance ; and the classes to be helped are somewhat different. 2697. Do you see any advantage in limiting some of the bursaries to MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 225 Edinburgh, and limiting others to schools out of Edinburgh, instead of Rev. Dr. putting the two into one? — I should like to strengthen the educational Gray > institutions of Edinburgh. They have unfortunately suffered a good deal from the Merchant Company's schools, and I should like to offer induce- ments to parents to send their children to Edinburgh, to the different educational institutions there. 2698. The test of competition with other schools in Edinburgh would be valuable ? — It would be. 2699. If what you contemplate came to pass — if the Heriot's governors had in their hands the education of the whole working classes of Edinburgh, including their higher education, how would they stand related to the new School Board, which has come into existence since the Provisional Order was drawn up ? — I do not know sufficiently about the matter to say what would be the case with regard to them. 2700. Do you consider the present constitution of the trust of George Heriot to be suited for undertaking the larger duties which you propose they should undertake with regard to education ? — There could be nothing more liberal than the present constitution of the trust. There are 41 lay governors, 39 of whom are elected by the very persons who, I think, elect under the new Education Act, and there are the ministers of Edinburgh ; so that really there could be few boards that are more thoroughly the ex- ponent of public opinion, and open to popular influences. 2701. When you say the ministers of Edinburgh, you mean the city ministers of the Established Church ? — Yes. 2702. The provost, bailies, and council, of course, are elected for many other purposes besides education ? — They are. 2703. And with a view to these purposes, gentlemen may be some- times elected who would not have been elected for educational purposes ? — Perhaps not; but sometimes it is an advantage to have persons not specially elected for educational purposes in dealing even with educational questions. 2704. Do you think that conference between the Board of Education in Edinburgh and the Heriot's governors would keep matters straight between them, or do you think there would be some confusion ? — I think an arrangement might be made by which there might be no difficulty with regard to that matter. The great object of the board and of our- selves would be to keep down expense, and thoroughly to overtake the education of Edinburgh. Of course, Government inspection would see that the schools were properly conducted, and were on a proper footing. 2705. Do you think there would be any objection to some member or members of the School Board being associated with the governors ? — I should not have the slightest objection to that. 2706. Might that not facilitate the maintenance of good relations between the two bodies ? — It might. 2707. Mr. Sella?-. — You have said you would confine the bursaries to your own schools ? — No ; I said that certain bursaries should be for our own schools, but not all the bursaries. 2708. Why would you not throw them all open to competition ? — For this reason, among others, that the children of the poorer classes have not equal advantages with the children of the higher classes, and have not received the same education ; and, therefore, if there was unrestricted competition for these bursaries, it would be practically throwing out those who required them most, and those for whom George Heriot specially intended them. 2709. Would not the education of your schools be of such a quality as to bring up the children of the poorer classes to the level of the others? 226 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Dr. — I said, in reply to Mr. Parker, that when the children had the benefit of ; Gray. our schools, I did not see any difficulty with regard to unrestricted compe- tition being introduced among them. 2710. Then I understand you would throw them all open to competi- tion ? — I would throw a few of them open to unrestricted competition, — others to competition for poor students anywhere ; but some of them I would reserve to scholars connected with our own schools, and I would allow unrestricted competition among them. 2711. I do not yet quite see your reason for not throwing them all open ? — Do you mean to have competition on the part of any person from any quarter? 2712. Not as a rule; only among the poor to whom the funds belong. To do otherwise would be to deprive them of their rights ? — Supposing that a poor father has a son at a country school where he has no advantages, and wants him to come to Edinburgh to get the benefit of a university educa- tion, that boy, although of greater capacity than his fellow-scholars, is not able to make the same appearance in the competition which they can do, because they are boys who have had tutors, and who have been cramming, so to speak, with Latin and Greek, and these boys, although not of the same capacity, will necessarily throw him out. 2713. Could you not devise a system of examination which would keep down cramming ? — I do not think they have been able to find out such a system yet. I do not think the system of unrestricted competition has had all the advantages that people expected from it. 2714. Do you not think it creates an educational stimulus throughout the country ? — Competition does, but competition always leaving a dis- cretionary power with those who have the right of selection, where the funds have been left for behoof of a particular class. 2715. You mean you would keep the right of selection in the governing- body ?— Yes. 2716. And that those only would be allowed to compete who were selected by that body ? — Yes ; I think they should take into consideration the advantages and disadvantages under which the competitors may have laboured before, and generally the circumstances of their parents. 2717. Would not that be a system of close patronage? — It would be a system of privilege, and I would prefer that. 2718. Do you prefer privilege to open competition? — Not always; but I am speaking as a Heriot's Hospital governor. I think George Heriot intended this as a privilege to a certain class, and I would by no means throw it open to everybody, except in a very few cases at the most. To act otherwise, would, I think, be to introduce the communistic principle into the sphere of education. 2719. What class, exactly, do you think George Heriot destined it to? — Heriot speaks of poor freemen's sons being fatherless ; and Dr. Balcan- quall states that the object was to relieve the poor of Edinburgh, because he was grateful to it as being his birth-place. 2720. Then you would prevent the poor of Edinburgh from competing for the Heriot bursaries if they were not educated in the Heriot schools ? — I would try to educate the poor in the Heriot schools, and thus give them the full advantages of Heriot's bequest. 2721. But you would not admit the poorer children from the public schools of Edinburgh to compete for these Heriot bursaries? — Yes, I would, if we could not overtake the whole education of the poor. 2722. Then you would throw them open to those who were educated in the lower public schools of Edinburgh ? — Yes, if they were poor scholars. 2723. Without any limitation ? — I would throw a certain number of MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 227 them open to those who had had similar advantages. I think it is very Eev. Dr. desirable to stimulate our own scholars by the hope of bursaries, and Gra y - therefore I would give bursaries specially to our own schools ; but I think it also desirable we should promote the higher education of the poor so far as we can ; and if we had funds, I see no objection, first, to have bursaries open to all the Edinburgh educational establishments ; and, secondly, to have some bursaries with unrestricted competition from all quarters, always remembering their circumstances. 2724. For instance, would you allow those educated in the Merchant Company's schools to compete with those who had been educated in the Heriot schools ? — There is a feeling on the part of the governors — I cannot say I share it strongly — that the Merchant Company have plenty of funds to provide bursaries for themselves ; but if the bursaries given by both were open to all, that might be the means of promoting a healthy competition. 2725. Suppose there was a reciprocity between the two bodies — that each threw open its bursaries to boys educated at the other — would not that have the effect of stimulating education in Edinburgh ? — I think it would, though that is not the only thing to be thought of. 2726. Would you not carry that further ? Would it not help to stimu- late education in Edinburgh if you threw open your bursaries to poor boys educated in the public schools of Edinburgh? — I would not object to that, as regards some of them at least. 2727. And would it not still further stimulate education in Edinburgh if you threw your bursaries open to poor boys educated in different parts of Scotland? — Yes; we have provided for all that in the Provisional Order ; and I have indicated my willingness even to go further, and to allow a few bursaries to be open for absolutely unrestricted competition. 2728. You said that one reason why you would be inclined to help the Edinburgh educational institutions was because they had suffered from the Merchant Company's schools ? — Yes, I think they have. 2729. Is it not probable, if that be the case, that they would suffer still more when your scheme was in operation also? — I dare say they would suffer to some extent, but we would try to make the suffering as light as possible. I do not blame the Merchant Company for what they have done ; I merely stated what has been the effect, and the inevitable effect, where there are large educational endowments, of their improve- ments and changes. I think perhaps they began too abruptly, and with too small notice, and that therefore the evil was greater than it would otherwise have been. 2730. Do you mean the evil to the public or to the teachers ? — The evil to the teachers, undoubtedly. 2731. Has there been any evil to the public? — I think that such a school as one containing 1200 young ladies is too large. I think the whole of the pupils cannot be properly attended to in it, and that there must be other disadvantages. 2732. With regard to the technical school : you say you would have a technical school to teach chemistry, natural philosophy, arithmetic, and mathematics. Is mathematics not to be taken up in the primary schools ? — No ; or, at any rate, nothing except the most elementary. 2733. But arithmetic is? — Yes; but from that I would carry it on to the higher branches — algebra and the higher mathematics. 2734. Would that not be done in the ordinary middle schools, like the High School of Edinburgh? Are not arithmetic and mathematics taught there? — I think there is a want in Edinburgh just now of what may be called a specially technical school. Besides, these middle schools are too expensive for poor scholars. 228 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Dr. 2735. In that special technical school, if it was established, would you Gra y - limit the subjects at all to these four ? — No ; but I would make these subjects a speciality. I would make it a school for teaching general sub- jects, with a technical and practical side. 2736. By a practical side, do you mean practical engineering? — That might be embraced ; but I mean generally a side specially fitting them for the practical work of life to which they were looking forward. 2737. Do you think there is a demand for that school at present? — I think there is a growing demand, and that it will go on increasing. 2738. Have you thought how you would get teachers to teach these subjects ? — If you have the money, you will very soon get teachers. 2739. Would you not have to train them? — Yes. 2740. Your idea is to have a school where engineering, chemistry, natural philosophy, and, I suppose, farming and other things of that kind, should be taught ? — Not to teach the trades or arts themselves ; but to teach science, and its application to the arts, and its application to manu- factures, and to everything else, would be a very important part of it, — to do what the School of Arts, of which I am vice-president, tries to do in the evenings for artisans, and to which in our Provisional Order we took power to give to the extent of £200 a year. 2741. Do you charge fees there? — Yes, very small fees, so that it is not self-supporting ; and it would be a great boon if we could get some endowment to help us in our most important work. 2742. Do you know the Merchant Company have power to found such a school ? — I believe they have. 2743. And they have not yet found it necessary to put that power into operation ? — They have not done so. 2744. That rather indicates, does it not, that there is no demand for such a school in Edinburgh at present? — I think they have their hands pretty full as it is. But I have already said they do not quite meet the class which I think should be met, which is, when boys and girls come to be about twelve or thirteen years of age, and their parents are not able to pay fees and keep them doing nothing for other two or three years, when they should be at school. 2745. Mr. Lancaster. — Your notion of improving secondary education would be by enlarging the scope of it ? — That would be one thing to be done, but I also feel strongly the necessity of giving a liberal education, as education is ordinarily meant, to the children of the poor. 2746. But my question was, by improving secondary education your idea is to enlarge the scope of it ? — Yes ; to widen the area of it. 2747. Do you think that would be the form which the improvement of our secondary education might best take in Scotland ? — I think that is a very important part of it. 2748. And do you think that would be a legitimate application of George Heriot's funds ? — Decidedly. 2749. Then, upon that principle, it would be a legitimate application of the Heriot funds to found an additional chair in the University, would it not ? — No ; I think you must keep in mind that the object of George Heriot was to be the relief of the poor ; and I would rather give the money in the shape of bursaries or scholarships to bursars, than apply it in the way you suggest, which would not benefit the poor directly at all. 2750. If you enlarge the scope of secondary education by getting new teachers in schools, what is the difference in principle between doing that and getting new teachers in universities? — When we have them in schools, we provide by ourselves for the poor children, for the very class MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 229 for which George Heriot intended them ; and we would be quite willing to Eev. Dr. give them help to go to the University, if they require it. Gray > 2751. Then your objection to the application of the funds in the way I have suggested — the founding of chairs in universities — is that the teacher so appointed would teach other people besides your own? — It would be because we could do more good to the poor in the one way than in the other. I have no positive objection, if we had very large surplus funds, to help some university endowments to some extent ; but I would greatly prefer giving it to the poor scholars, that they might go to the University, to its being used in the way you propose. 2752. But I want to see the difference between the teacher in the one place and the teacher in the other. You say it is a legitimate application of the funds to appoint a teacher in a school of practical engineering, as Mr. Sellar suggested to you. Now, what is the difference between that and appointing a teacher of practical engineering in the University ? Is there any difference, except that in the latter case he teaches other people than your own ? — The schools are ours, and the University is not. 2753. Is the only difference this, that the people taught are different ? — The schools are our own, — that is a very important difference, — and we can regulate them as we please as to scholars and fees. 2754. But is it not the only difference, that the pupils come from a larger class in the one case than in the other ? — I think there is a great difference between establishing a Heriot technical school for the special benefit of the poor, and endowing a university chair which would not, of itself, do anything for them. 2755. Do you approve generally of the Provisional Order I — Generally, I do. I was in Rome part of the time it was being prepared, but generally I approve of it. 2756. Then is it your opinion of the Provisional Order that, as a whole, it keeps steadily in view the idea of providing education for the poor ? — I think so. 2757. Are you aware that a legal opinion was given about the Pro- visional Order to the effect that it did not provide education for the poor, and that on that account it was illegal ? — I believe that was stated as a ground of its illegality. 2758. Then we may take the idea you have of providing for the edu- cation of the poor to be practically worked out in the Provisional Order ? — Yes. 2759. And that anything that the Provisional Order authorizes the governors of the hospital to do would, in your opinion, come under the provisions of George Heriot's will? — Yes. At the same time, I may explain that the powers are permissive. We take very large powers, some of which we might not exercise. 2760. I think you said that Dr. Balcanquhal intended not to limit the word 4 bairns ' to orphans ? — Yes ; that is my opinion. 2761. Have you considered whether any documents are in existence which gave him any power to do that ? — I think that while George Heriot merely speaks of him as having an absolute power with regard to the regulations and the building of the hospital, he must have known pretty well his uncle's views, and that while it was specially an orphanage, and they had the first claim to it, it was not necessarily to be restricted to orphans. 2762. But, so far as any of George Heriot's wishes can be gathered from any documents he has left in writing, he does limit his bequest to orphans very specially. Does he not ? — He limits it to fatherless boys, so far as I can see. 230 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. Dr. 2763. And in the very passage in his will in which he refers to Dr. Gra y - Balcanquhal he refers to fatherless children ? — Yes. 2764. In fact, the only power that is given to Dr. Balcanquhal is to make rules for fatherless children ? — He so expressed his pleasure. 2765. And do you think he got any power to throw the foundation open to all children, whether they are fatherless or not? — I think he must have felt he had that power, although I must allow it does not appear in any of George Heriot's writings that he expressly gave it him. 2766. How could he feel that he had that power when it was not given to him? — Because he used it. That is the only way in which I can know it. 2767. Then you think that when any body of people use a power to contravene the will of a founder, the inference is that the founder gave them that power ? — I do not see that is quite fair, because in this case the founder was Dr. Balcanquhal's uncle, and he must have often spoken to him about the matter, and told him what his intentions were. Besides, as I said before, he meant it to be on the model of Christ's Hospital, which was not limited to orphans. But even if Heriot's Hospital was intended to be limited to fatherless boys, I think that, looking to the spirit of his trust, when the funds have increased to such a large extent, it is well to come in loco parentis towards those who are practically fatherless, from their fathers being disabled, or being poor and unable to provide for their children ; and this is what is required of the governors by the Act of 1836. 2768. Do you think that under the present system the statute of Dr. Balcanquhal, that no children are to be admitted if their parents are well and sufficiently able to maintain them, is carried out ? — Well, so far as the governors can carry it out, it is done, but we labour under great disadvantages, and have done so since 1846. 2769. Is it not almost impossible to carry that out now-a-days? — None are admitted who are not the children of poor burgesses. 2770. Have not burgesses a right to claim admission? — No, we ex- ercise a right of selection. 2771. But they have a right to claim admission? — They have a right to apply. 2772. And although you exercise a certain selection, that right means something ? — Yes. We exercise a right of selection, but it is very hard to do it. I have in my hands a schedule containing the lists of applica- tions. On 19th February there were fourteen applications for resident boys, and six for non-resident. At that time there were eight vacancies for non-resident boys, and only six applications. But we only elected those we considered of the proper class. 2773. Therefore, as you say, it is very hard to carry out that rule ? — Yes ; and it was for that reason we applied for a Provisional Order. 2774. Are you aware that, in the great foundations in England, it has been found so hard to exercise a discretion, with regard to poverty, that twenty years ago the attempt was entirely given up in the universities ? — Duty is always hard, but I would not give it up on that account. 2775. But do you think it can be satisfactorily performed ? — It can be performed. We can never do anything so satisfactorily as we would wish. 2776. With regard to the preference for people resident or educated in Edinburgh, you think that should be still kept up now ? — I think so. 2777. You are not moved in any way by the fact of the changes that have taken place in society, and in the growth of Edinburgh as compared with the rest of Scotland, and the increase of wealth that has come to the Heriot funds in consequence of that growth ? — In what way should that make a difference ? MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 231 2778. In this way — that a great many people have come to Edinburgh Rev. Er. to live here, and have added to the funds of Heriot's Hospital by so doing, , > Gra y - but who are not now able to participate in the advantages of the founda- tion. Does not that make a difference? — If they live in Edinburgh they may get advantage of it. 2779. But not if they are not burgesses? — But they may buy their burgess-ship. Unfortunately, there is no other way of becoming a bur- gess, because living in Edinburgh will not make a burgess. 2780. Then your answer is, that they can buy a burgess ticket and so get the benefit of George Heriot's Hospital ? — Yes ; but I think that is a very bad system, because it is very much a speculation. 2781. And that system, you think, is carrying out the idea of the founder ? — We are obliged to carry it out in spite of that, by selecting those that are really poor, in accordance with the trust ; and when they find that the buying of a burgess ticket does not really admit them although they may apply, they very soon stop, and only the proper class apply for the burgess ticket. 2782. Mr. Ramsay. — Would you propose to do away with the burgess qualification? — I would propose to make the burgess qualification a reality at all events ; not that persons could buy it, but that only certain persons should be entitled to it. But I would much rather have no burgess qualification, and widen the area by making it consist of those who have been tradesmen or who have carried on business in Edinburgh, or poor persons connected with Edinburgh. 2783. The population of Edinburgh, I understand, is about 200,000. What proportion does the class to which you refer bear to the population of the whole town ? — I cannot answer that question with any degree of accuracy. 2784. Would you not require to arrive at some definite estimate of that number before you could decide as to the number of schools you would set down? — Yes. 2785. You think the schools already in existence — I mean the founda- tion schools — do not provide accommodation for the whole of that class ? — They certainly do not. 2786. But you have never considered what the number of the class referred to would be ? — I have heard such different accounts of it, that I am not prepared to commit myself to any number, not knowing per- sonally. 2787. Could you ascertain it by the rents of the houses? — Yes, it could easily be ascertained in that way. 2788. But you have not heard any reliable statement on the subject? — I have heard different statements, but I have never made a calculation, and I do not myself know about it. 2789. In your opinion, is there accommodation in the existing schools in Edinburgh for the elementary education of the poor ? — Edinburgh is growing very largely, and I think there are some parts of it where the working classes are having houses built for them at a very great rate, and where schools might be advantageously planted, and we should try to do that in any increase or extension we make. 2790. You think there are districts in which these schools are still required ? — There are. 2791. The Chairman. — What is the Tweeddale Fund to which you referred in an early part of your examination ? — Lady Yester was the mother of the first Earl of Tweeddale, and the Tweeddales have always had a gallery in the church. When his Lordship is in town, he sits with us in Lady Yester's church ; but he is not able to go up-stairs, 232 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Dr. and he allows us to let his gallery there, and to devote the proceeds to Gra y - the general and religious education of the young connected with our own parish congregation. It is not a large sum — only £10 or £12 a year, — but, along with two juvenile Heriot schools, and one infant school we have in our own parish, it enables us to overtake our educational require- ments for the poor. 2792. You pay the fees of a certain number of children? — Yes. 2793. You said that the grant left by George Heriot was £23,000, and the other bequests were about £8000. It is put at nearly £8000 in the return, and about half of that, I see, was left within the present century ? — Yes, a considerable part of it was. 2794. But the principal property was purchased out of George Heriot's money ? — Yes. 2795. And it is that property which has increased in such a large pro- portion ? — It has increased in a very large proportion, but still the others have so far increased too. 2796. But you would not say that £23,000 and £8000 represent the present relative values of the two benefactions ? — No, it would not be fair to say so. 2797. And it is, in fact, from George Heriot that the principal part of the funds has come ? — Certainly. Bailie John Tawse, examined. Bailie 2798. The Chairman. — You have been for some years a member of the John^ Town Council of Edinburgh? — I have — for six years. 2799. And during that period you have taken a part in the administra- tion of Heriot's Hospital? — I have taken a considerable share in the administration of the hospital, and particularly in the educational depart- ment. 2800. Are you one of the Committee of Management ? — I am a member of the Education Committee, and I am convener of the committee having charge of the Provisional Order, and matters connected therewith. 2801. You went to London to endeavour to get that Provisional Order passed? — Yes, I was in London on two different occasions in the endeavour to get that Order. 2802. In your capacity as one of the patrons of the hospital, you have taken a great interest in it, and you are well acquainted with the history of its administration ? — I have been interested in the hospital both during the time I have been in the Council and also for several years before, and during all that period have come much in contact with the boys, both during their residence in and after they have left the hospital. 2803. Would you state what is, in your opinion, the class for whom the hospital was originally intended, prior to the Reform Act and the Act of 1846 for the abolition of exclusive privileges prevailing in burghs? — The class for whom George Heriot left his benefaction was poor father- less boys, sons of burgesses and freemen of the city of Edinburgh ; but in the statutes the word ' fatherless ' was left out. The class intended were, in my opinion, sons of decayed burgesses, and burgesses then comprised those who were carrying on business in Edinburgh. It was necessary that they should be burgesses in order to be members of the guilds and incor- porations connected with the business which they carried on, and without which they could not do so. 2804. Was a burgess generally a person who was engaged in trade? — All persons carrying on trade required to be burgesses. They might be MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 233 burgesses without that, but in order to be members of the incorporated trades, who had the privilege of carrying on business, they had to be burgesses. 2805. Are the terms ' freeman ' and 1 burgess ' convertible ? — I think they are convertible terms. 2806. The will of George Heriot says that the hospital is for poor fatherless bairns, and for freemen's sons : you think these mean the same thing ? — I believe they do ; the words of the statutes are 4 children of burgesses and freemen.' By the Act of 1846 the exclusive privileges of trades corporations were done away with, and any one could carry on a business after that time without being a member of these incorporations. 2807. Since then, what change has taken place in the position of the burgesses of the city ? — The number of burgesses has considerably de- creased ; one reason, no doubt, being that that Act took away some of the objects for which parties became burgesses. Regulations have been made from time to time with regard to the conditions for the admission of bur- gesses, and these have varied. In 1861 — I think that was the year — the qualification of burgesses was raised. The payment for admission was raised considerably at that time ; and the number, of course, would decrease. Then in 1871 it was restored to what it had been previous to 1861, and it stands in that position now. "What is necessary now is that the party admitted should either have carried on business in Edinburgh for one year, or been a householder for three years, paying taxes. The payment is the sum of £5, and 5s. for the stamp duty on the burgess ticket. Recently women — widows carrying on business — have been admitted to the privi- leges of burgesses. 2808. At present the admission to the hospital is limited to the sons of burgesses ? — Yes. 2809. And in consequence of the change you have mentioned, there has been a lowering of the class of applicants for admission ? — A lowering of the number of applicants, as may be seen by looking at the list of appli- cations. Previous to 1846 there was probably an average of fifty or sixty every half-year, for perhaps twelve or fifteen vacancies ; but as time went on, and the old burgesses have died out, the number has decreased. The outcry against hospitals has also led to a diminution in the applications. 2810. But the class who apply are a lower class than those who were formerly benefited ? — In my opinion, they are in many cases a class lower than those whom George Heriot intended to benefit. 2811. What, in your opinion, was the class that George Heriot intended to receive benefit ? — I think he very much intended to benefit the class of persons who had occupied his own position, and carried on business, but who had fallen back in their circumstances. I think, when you read the whole tenor of his will and instructions as to the kind of education to be provided, you are driven to the conclusion that the poor he referred to were those in reduced circumstances, and who had fallen back from their original position in life. 2812. It was proposed to train the boys for the grammar school of the burgh, and for the University? — Yes. His object evidently was to give them a liberal education — as liberal as could be had at that time. 2813. And that, you think, ought to be kept in view in any changes in the administration of the hospital ? — Yes. 2814. Are you of opinion that it should be confined to fatherless bairns, as stated in his will ? — Personally, I am in favour of it being confined to fatherless bairns, because I think in that way you prevent evils which may arise by admitting others ; and I think, by extending the class so as to in- 234 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie elude those who really would have come under it iu George Heriot's day, Tawse ^ ou wou ^ naye an am P^ e number of applicants from whom to select, _JL ' and to whom you would be doing real benefit by giving them that education. 2815. And it would assist very much to the administration of the hospital, if you merely look to the condition of the child as regards his parents, rather than if you have to consider what the circumstances of his family are ? — A fatherless boy is, of course, one who requires help and training more than one who has a father to look after him. 2816. But to extend it to those who may be in indigent circumstances is attended with considerable difficulty in the selection ? — Of course it is attended with more difficulty, because parties may vary in opinion as to what constitutes indigence. 2817. You would, no doubt, find a sufficient number of fatherless children in Edinburgh who would take advantage of the benefit of the hospital ? — From the number of parties who have waited on myself with the view of getting the benefit of the hospital, but who could not get it on account of their fathers not having been burgesses, I have no doubt there is a large number in Edinburgh to whom it would be very beneficial. 2818. That is to say, if you were to extend the qualification? — Yes ; I am always speaking of that extension being made, to take in the class which I think George Heriot intended to benefit. 2819. With regard to the out-door schools, would you state the cir- cumstances connected with their erection? — For some years there had been 180 boys in the hospital — as many as it would contain; and from the increase in the revenues, there remained a considerable surplus after main- taining the hospital. That sum in 1835 amounted, I think, to about £3000. And the question then arose how the surplus revenue should be employed — whether George Heriot's will should be given effect to by building another hospital for burgesses' sons, or whether it should be applied in another way. An Act of Parliament was then applied for to allow the governors to give an out-door education, but primarily, I think, from the provisions of the Act, for the children of burgesses who could not get admission to the hospital, of which there was at that time a very considerable number. The Act provided not only for giving these bur- gesses' children education, but, if necessary, to give them a sum for main- tenance and for apprentice fees, the same as they had in the hospital, showing, I think, what was the primary object of the Act. The Act further provided that any room not occupied by burgesses' children should be filled by the children of poor citizens or inhabitants of Edinburgh. 2820. tinder that system the education has been gratuitous? — It has been gratuitous. 2821. Do you concur with the last witness in thinking that fees should be taken ? — I have always had a very decided opinion in favour of charg- ing fees, — provision, of course, being made that the education should be given gratuitously to those unable to pay for it. 2822. Except where the circumstances of the relations of the children are such that they are unable to pay them ? — I think it would be abso- lutely necessary, and in fact it has been found in other schools that it is necessary, that you should provide the means of gratuitous education for those who cannot pay ; and I think there would always be a certain num- ber of that class in Edinburgh. 2823. Would you state what proportion of those who are now attend- ing the schools are able to pay fees ? — A very large proportion are able to pay a small fee. 2824. What amount of fee do you contemplate? — I contemplate a MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 235 small fee. I cannot say that I have quite made up my mind ; but on the Bailie passing of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act in 1869, 1 turned my e ^hiHrpn, and *ke man nnd bis wife. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 265 3203. That is seven persons in all? — Yes. But even if you make it Bailie six, it makes the allowance very little more. I had occasion to notice Lewis an important fact the other week, in discussing a matter in connection ' with our parochial board. We were considering a petition from Colinton parish as to our maintaining their paupers in Craiglockhart poorhousc, and I learnt that each of our in-door poor cost us 2s. 9d. a week, exclusive of rent, medical relief, and management, which shows that the working man and his wife and his children have something like 9d. less than the cost at which we are sustaining the pauper population. 3204. The Earl of Rosebery. — Fully lOd. less? — Yes; you are right. Permit me here to correct myself by saying that this sum will be reduced to 5d., if we deduct fire and light included in the 2s. 9d. referred to. 3205. Is that the rule, or is it the majority that you are speaking of? — There are a great number of our mechanics and tradesmen who have 25s. and 28s. a week. Some of them, I know, have 30s., and a few perhaps have more; but there are a great many whose wages are only about £1 or £1, Is., or 22s. ; and if you make the deductions to which I refer for lost time and change of employment, you will find the state of matters, as a rule, very much as I have described. I was very much struck with it at the time, and I tried it again and again. 3206. Do you suppose that the working classes in Edinburgh are in a worse condition in that respect than in any other large town ? — I don't know that they are. I think wages are a little better in Glasgow, but certainly not very much. 3207. With regard to George Heriot's will, I suppose you would con- sider that the lapse of time which has taken place since the founder's death, and the change of circumstances since then, allow you to take a very broad view of the intentions expressed in the will? — Yes, I am disposed to do that. 3208. You would take the trust, in fact, to be a general educational boon for the poorer classes of Edinburgh? — Yes ; that is just as I would take it, and just as I would wish to have it expressed. 3209. Would you make it a local boon or a national one ? — Consider- ing the interest which George Heriot manifestly took in Edinburgh as being the place of his residence and where he made his fortune, I should be disposed to view it locally. There is another consideration also which would weigh very much with me. I fear that if we were to make it national, that would have a very prejudicial effect upon gentlemen who might in the future be disposed to leave foundations for the benefit of those in their immediate neighbourhood. I find that this is a considera- tion which has influenced benevolent gentlemen very much in the past ; and I think that if we were to destroy the local character of such a bequest as this, it would have a very prejudicial effect in the future. 3210. But if, by making Edinburgh an educational centre for Scotland, you were actually improving its position, would you then concede that you were carrying out George Heriot's wishes for benefiting the city ? — Unquestionably. We could not attract a population to Edinburgh for the purposes of education without benefiting the city. 3211. And the country too? — Yes, and the surrounding country. At the same time, I fear that that would be running somewhat against the spirit of the trust. 3212. You would stop short at that point in interpreting the spirit of the will? — I think the matter is very fairly set forth in the proposed Provisional Order, where we have certain bursaries — I think ten — peculiar to the hospital. Then I think we had sixteen for the city generally ; and then there were something like twelve, I think, for the country generally. 266 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie I should by no means be disposed to draw a hard and fast line, but that David would be somewhat like the proportions in which I think the bursaries Lewis. i u , i r should be given. 3213. You would not throw open all the bursaries? — No, I should not be disposed to do that. 3214. Should you be disposed, in the interests of the poorer classes of Edinburgh whom George Heriot wished to benefit, to give anything out of his funds for technical education ? — Yes ; I believe we could with very great propriety, and in perfect keeping with the spirit of the will, contribute very freely for the purposes of technical education. 3215. Can you give us any definite views on that subject? — It was proposed, with my full concurrence, that the School of Arts, for example, — which is an institution that has been of immense benefit for working men, and a sort of miniature college for them, where technical education has been taught, — should receive a certain sum from the trust — I think some- thing like £200 per annum. Even if that was considerably increased I should raise no objection to it, but think it would be a very proper expenditure of the revenue. 3216. Therefore your general view of a proper expenditure of these revenues would be the opening of as many free schools as would meet the whole education of the poorer population of Edinburgh, and to do as much more as you could for technical education ? — Distinctly. Having looked into our education questions pretty closely, I have got the idea that if we had a proper economical administration of the whole revenues of the city of Edinburgh, we would be able to educate the great mass of the children without any school rate whatever ; and I have the idea, — it is pretty much without data, but I have it, — that the result of this Commis- sion will be to arrive very much at that conclusion ; at least I shall be very much mistaken if it is not so. 3217. What are the general views of your constituents with regard to Heriot's Hospital and its endowments? — I should state that the con- stituency which I represent is to a very large extent composed of the working population ; and without question, — I don't know any exceptions out of a constituency of nearly 3000, — they all entertain views very much the same as those I have now been expressing. 3218. These views, you think, express the views of the working classes of Edinburgh ? — I am certain of it. 3219. Mr. Sellar. — Suppose a threepenny rate : that, upon a rent of £10, would be 2s. 6d. a year ? — Yes. 3220. Do you think that artisans generally would find 2s. 6d. a year a great tax upon them for education? — Looking at it merely by itself, 2s. 6d. would not be a heavy tax; but taken along with other taxes which they have to pay, it would come to be considerable. I have no hesitation in saying that many of the working people are already burdened up to the extreme limit. 3221. Would they not get the very best education for that rate? — Yes. 3222. But do you think 2s. 6d. would be a serious burden upon them'? — I think it would, simply because their expenditure is already so' close upon their income, that any addition, from whatever source and however small, would be a serious one. 3223. In putting the rate at 3d., I was taking the outside of what was probable : what do you say to a penny rate, half being paid by the owner and half by the occupier ? — It would be a great relief. I know there is an idea prevalent, — and we hear a good deal about it, with much plausibility and truth, — that if men would give up smoking tobacco MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 267 and give up liquor, they would be a great deal better. That is all Bailie perfectly true, aud we know that a good deal of money is spent in that way, but I am pretty certain that it is not because they can afford to do ' it without injury to themselves and families. I know the view which is entertained by many, that the working classes are not by any means run to such extremities that a few coppers would make much difference. There is still another argument. Working men have got the idea that these schools are to a large extent schools where their children should get their education free, and I fear that the levying of a school rate, while the working men of Edinburgh are, I should say, most unlikely to be unreasonable, would yet be attended with difficulty, inasmuch as they consider that their children have a right to be educated in these schools without such a rate. 3224. Mr. Parker. — You think that the endowments for education in Edinburgh, if economically and wisely administered, would be about sufficient to meet the whole educational wants of Edinburgh? — I do; that is my firm conviction. 3225. You include iu that, first, elementary schools for all who choose to use them ? — Yes. 3226. Then middle schools ?— Yes. 3227. And evening classes? — No, I should not be disposed to include evening classes where the higher branches of education are taught. 3228. But industrial schools? — Yes, I think they should be included; and I think that industrial schools are a thing which we very much want in Edinburgh. It would change our social condition very materially if we had them instituted. 3229. Do you include any provision for higher education, such as is given in the grammar school ? — No ; I speak merely of the wants of the great mass of the people. Whenever you get into the higher branches of education, I think it would be necessary that you should look elsewhere for revenues for that purpose. 3230. You would not propose to have free schools for the higher branches of education ? — No ; I think, whenever you get into a superior high class education, that ought to be supported from a different source. 3231. I suppose, however, you would wish some of the working classes to go to schools where they might get that higher education? — Yes. 3232. You think those who are specially qualified should do so? — Yes ; I think it would be an important point to keep in view their natural gifts and qualifications, as I am certain that many of them would be able to take advantage of it; but you might extend the means too far, without getting any corresponding benefit. 3233. Would you effect the giving of that higher education by bur- saries or allowances from the elementary schools to children of that class, in order to enable them to go to the higher schools? — I think bursaries would be a very useful institution, and a good means of extending a helping hand to such children. 3234. Or would you pay the fees at the higher schools for any who had shown special capacity in the elementary schools ? — Certainly ; and if this Commission do not see their way to recommend, and the Legislature do not give us the power to establish, a higher branch institution, I certainly would recommend that the funds should be expended in educating such a class at some grammar school, or other similar place ; but I think it would be preferable if we had such an institution in connection with the foundation. 3235. Would you consider it an open question, whether it is better to 268 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie send your boys to existing schools for that purpose, or to found schools Lewis specially for them? — I should prefer that we had, them directly in con- ' nection with the foundation. 3236. Would it suffice that the trustees should have the control over them, say at the High School, by being able to withdraw the bursaries at any time, or to control them in some other way? — I don't think that system of giving bursaries and sending boys to the High School would be objectionable at all, but at the same time the present system works admir- ably. You have probably been informed that we have boys between seven and fourteen in the institution ; but those who are superior boys are allowed to go there for two years, from fourteen to sixteen, and they get the benefit of the superior education in the hospital. We find that works exceedingly well, — better, I dare say, than if the boys had been sent to the High School. But in the event of there not being a higher class school in connection with the institution, I should by no means object to those who might be worthy of it being sent to the High School. 3237. And for those boys of capacity you would not draw the line short of the University. Would you also enable them to enter the University ? — Certainly ; wherever we find them sufficiently distinguished, I would certainly send them to the University. 3238. You would found as many bursaries as would provide for boys who showed capacity of that sort? — Precisely. 3239. Do you think that would be carrying out the spirit of George Heriot's will? — I think it would. 3240. Then, when you said that the general intention of the will was to benefit the poorer classes of Edinburgh, you did not confine it to the lower class of education, but only to those who were in need of assist- ance ? — Yes ; but, as I have already said, it would only be to those who had really distinguished themselves that I would recommend or feel justified in giving anything like a university education. It would only be in very exceptional circumstances. 3241. Should you think it an advantage for a boy of moderate capacity ? — No, I certainly would not. I think, where you have boys of moderate capacity, if they get a sufficient education to enable them to discharge their duties as citizens, it would be much better to give them such an education than to hold out any inducement for them to leave the position in life to which they have been assigned. I believe much mischief might result from that. 3242. Then, if the boys had had the advantage of that education for some years, you would choose them for the grammar school or the University very much by competition ? — Certainly. I would have com- petitive examinations, but never losing sight of this, that the facilities which they have at home for being aided in their studies should be care- fully looked to. I have known some very clever and even first-rate boys who had very superior talents, but neither their father nor their mother was competent to aid them personally, or to pay any one to come in for an hour in the evening to assist them, who, if put to a competitive examination with an inferior boy who had facilities at home, either from his parents or from some one who might be engaged to give him a lift, would go to the wall in an examination. It appears to me that the home influence and assistance are a most important feature to keep in view in a competi- tive examination. 3243. But the longer the boys were attending your schools, if they were good schools, they would be the better able to enter upon such examinations ? — Yes. 3244. Would there not be a great difficulty in entering into these MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 269 questions about the assistance which a boy had got at home ? Do you Bailie think that is a matter which could be easily ascertained? — I have no Lewis doubt that two or three questions to the teacher would bring out the ' matter. They are all acquainted with the circumstances in which the boys are placed at home, more especially those who give any evidence that they have superior attainments. 3245. But by the time they were competing to enter the University it would probably be hardly necessary to take into account the home advantages of the boys ? — Perhaps not ; still I would not lose sight of them. 3246. I don't know exactly how you would take that into account : in whose hands would you place the matter ? — It would have to be found out at the examination. 3247. Suppose the examiners were instructed to report the boys in order of merit, and that you then proceeded to consider whether a boy who was higher on the list was to have it, or whether another was to have it on the ground of less advantages at home, how would you do ? — I would still leave a good deal of discretionary power in the hands of the patrons of the hospital with regard to that matter. An examiner would necessarily be precluded from enjoying some advantages in forming an opinion which the more immediate patrons would have. 3248. But I want to get as definite a notion as possible of the way in which they would exercise the power, because, of course, you might give the power with one intention, and it might be exercised with a different result ? — That is true ; but I think our present system works very satisfactorily. Up till about three years ago, I think, we had not a competitive exami- nation in connection with the hospital; but we now have competitive examinations, and all these elements are kept steadily in view, the home influence and circumstances of the boys, as well as their talents ; and of course it is for the sub-committee, aided very much by the governor, who knows all these matters of detail, to settle how the bursaries are to be given ; and it is wonderful how accurately and how satisfactorily they arrive at their decisions. 3249. I suppose it would be rather an exception with the boys com- peting for the University to depart from the order of merit ? — It would be more usual to follow the order of merit. I think the present system works exceedingly well, and I think it would be found to work equally well in almost any circumstances. 3250. Would it not cause somewhat bitter disappointment to the boys themselves to find that, although placed high enough by examination to get the bursary, they had been passed over on account of some home circumstances which were supposed to exist in the case of another boy ? — It might, and I have no doubt would, have such an effect ; but if they were informed as to the conditions, they would be shrewd enough to see and know that they had enjoyed privileges and advantages which the successful boy might not have. I can easily see the difficulty which you indicate. At the same time, boys are sufficiently sharp at once to under- stand such a matter if it were put fairly before them. 3251. But it must be a very definite case before such a preference can be given : it must not be a mere impression that the boy had not had the same chance ? — No ; that is just one of those rules which you will not find to be of universal application without a difficulty. Assuming that we put out of sight altogether the home influence of the boy, and just take the hard and fast line of the results of the examination, that, I think, would be most unfair, and the boys themselves would discover it to be unfair; so that there is a difficulty in accepting either alternative. 270 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 3252. Do you know, as matter of fact, in what proportion of cases there has been a departure from the order of merit in these competitions ? — I cannot say. 3253. I believe they have been comparatively rare ? — I should think they have been very rare. 3254. In order to make the funds go far enough to effect all the pur- poses you have mentioned, a very good organization, I suppose, would be required ? — I think so. 3255. Of course you include in your view the large funds which the Merchant Compauy possess ? — Yes ; but I am scarcely in a position to speak concerning them. My attention has been exclusively directed to the Heriot foundation. I have not been upon any of the Merchant Com- pany committees, although the Town Council hold some of the patronage in connection with them ; so that my remarks must be understood to apply exclusively to the Heriot foundation. 3256. But taking, as you are doing, a broad view of the education of the whole city of Edinburgh, you would think it necessary that there should be a good deal of adjustment between the Merchant Company's and Heriot's funds, so as to prevent their waste ? — I think there is some- thing in that ; but the Merchant Company's schools are dealing with a different class, generally speaking, from what we are. They embrace a great many of the commercial class, and not a few of the professional class. Now the Heriot trustees are dealing with a class below them ; so that I think you are quite right in suggesting that there should be great care taken that the two classes did not come into contact. There might be mischief done in that direction. 3257. Taking the Merchant Company's schools as they are organized already, and your schools pretty much as proposed in the Provisional Order, what would there be to determine one class to go to the Merchant Company's schools and the other class to go to your schools? — There would be this : our Provisional Order is constructed upon the principle of free schools, although there is that clause in the Order, to which I took exception, craving power from the Legislature to allow the governors to charge fees. Our old schools have been based upon the principle of free education ; and in that Provisional Order we were dropping down still further, and getting hold not merely of the industrial classes, but of a class below them, and educating the children of the lowest class in the com- munity ; whereas the whole tendency of the Merchant Company's schools has been to go upwards. Still, I don't think the hue of demarcation is naturally so distinct that, unless proper care is taken, we might not come into collision. 3258. If you had power to charge fees or not at your option, I sup- pose that probably in no case would any very high fee be charged at the Heriot schools ? — I do not think so. The fee they proposed to charge was very small, almost nominal. It was not fixed, but it was spoken of as a very reasonable sum, certainly not an oppressive one. 3259. I think, with regard to the out-door schools, that 6d. a month was mentioned? — I think'so. Although nothing definite was fixed upon, I should think that that sum was pretty much what was in the minds of the governors. 3260. If you were to found a middle school of your own, would the governors charge a lower fee there than the Merchant Company are charging ? — If they had the power of charging fees, I think it is very pro- bable they would. I may say, in justice to the governors, that while it was certainly in their view to raise some money with the view of extending the number of schools, I think it w r as not their intention at all to charge MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 271 such a fee as would be oppressive. I think the amount they would have Bailio charged would not have been at all likely to be so much as is charged by Lewis the Merchant Company. . 3261. Your own opinion against charging fees, I understand, is founded chiefly on a consideration of what the income of a working man is ? — No. One of my objections is, that seeing they have had these schools as free schools since 1836, I believe that if we were to draw a line of demarca- tion, and charge fees to some and not to others, the effect would neces- sarily be unfavourable upon the minds of those who were not charged. For example, if you had some children whose parents were paying some- thing, it did not matter how little, and you had other children sitting, it may be, on the same form, whose parents were not charged anything at all, the effect upon the minds of those who were not charged would, I think, be prejudicial and discouraging. 3262. I believe there has been a proposal in some cases to remit the fees, and not to let it be known I — That was proposed ; but assuming I had no other objection to it, my difficulty then would have been, that it would have been impossible, where you have so many children, to have so arranged a system that the fact of the fees being remitted would not have been known to the children in some way or other. Children are very shrewd, and it would be very difficult to arrange a system under which they would not have the means of ascertaining such a fact, either at home or in the schools. 3263. You have, no doubt, considered the. same question in its bearing upon other towns in the country where there are free schools ? — I have ; but I confess there is a special objection which might not apply to other parts of the country, and that is the idea that these revenues really belong to the industrial or tradesmen class of the city, and, such being the case, that the governors have no right to make a charge, — that we are merely acting as trustees for these parties, and that we are going beyond our province when we propose to exact fees from them for receiving that which is really their own, having been left to them as a legacy by the founder of this institution. As I stated in my argument before the Board, it appears to me somewhat as if a benevolent person had left a house to a tradesman, that house being left in trust ; and that it seemed right and proper in the minds of the trustees that they should charge a small nominal rent for the house. The answer of the person in occupation would naturally be, 4 No, you are my trustees, but the house is really my own; and I must object to your claiming any rent from me, however small.' Unquestionably, whether rightly or wrongly, that is the feeling which pervades the industrial classes of the city in regard to this magnificent bequest of George Heriot. 3264. Might it not be replied, that if the trustees spend the whole of the money for the benefit of that class, but ask them to spend something themselves in order to meet that, they are really getting the benefit of the whole trust money, and that at the same time the education might be made better in consequence of some more money being brought in I — Their answer to that would be, that, as things now stand, we are not spending the whole money for that purpose, but that we could spend a great deal more if we had the power ; and assuming we had got the powers asked for in the Provisional Order, we could have made the bene- fits far more extensive than they really have been. Then with regard to the proposal to raise a fee from certain parties, there are a great number who are willing to pay a fee ; but, unfortunately, to accept that fee from these parties would, to my mind, be to accept a premium for a right which belongs not to them, but to those who are unable to pay. 3265. To use your own illustration, if a house were left in trust for 272 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie certain persons, to be occupied by them without rent, but if by getting a Le^Ss reu ^ y° u cou ^ make it a better house, would it be a violation of the ' trust to enter into such a bargain ? — No ; if it could be shown that the house really was out of repair, and uninhabitable, I think it would be per- fectly right. If there was no other way of getting the house repaired than by levying a rent upon the tenants, I think it would, in that alterna- tive, be perfectly justifiable. 3266. You said you did not wish to see any diversion of the funds from their original design ? — Yes, keeping in view the changes which have taken place in the whole social institutions of the country. 3267. You are taking rather a free view of that ? — Yes ; I am decidedly of the opinion that the exclusiveness of the trust could be very much modified, and that we could take a much more broad and comprehensive view of the design of the founder without any one suffering, and in that way we could make it much more beneficial. 3268. I suppose you quite admit, that in the original design, George Heriot certainly had in view a somewhat higher class than the very poorest ? — Yes ; and that is one thing we have always been very careful of. The poverty-stricken, the pauperized class, have never been the recipients of this trust. 3269. Still, taking a broad view of the matter, you would be willing to have industrial schools, or otherwise to include them ? — Yes ; and in view of what has been done by the Merchant Company, and the great increase of education, and with the view of making it more accessible, I think it would be a fair and proper thing for the Legislature to interfere, and to give powers to the governors of this trust to go down among the poverty- stricken, and in the industrial schools to give them education and clothing, and even food w T here necessary. 3270. Have you ever considered this question since the recent Act of Parliament makes it necessary that there should be a School Board for Edinburgh ? — Yes, I have looked at it, and it is beset, to my mind, with considerable difficulty and complication. I presume that in Edinburgh the School Board will have difficulties to encounter which will exist per- haps nowhere else, at least not in Scotland. We have such an immense amount of educational revenues, and we have so many institutions, that I apprehend it will be a very difficult thing for the School Board to know where to draw the line of demarcation, and to bring the schools directly under the control of that Board. 3271. In a city having no endowments, the School Board, of course, will be the most powerful body for educational purposes? — Unquestionably. 3272. It will have the power of rating, and of disposing of the rates f — Yes ; and that will make it one of the most powerful bodies. I pre- sume, in the present state of our country, it will also be one of the most useful, and I think it will be one of the most popular, boards we could have. It is clamantly called for ; and, I presume, will give us a new start in the matter of education. 3273. But then, when you come to the case of Edinburgh, you have already existing two bodies with the control of much larger funds than the School Board will have to deal with? — Yes. 3274. Therefore, when the School Board under the Act of Parliament is set to work, they will find, you may say, two bodies more powerful than themselves ? — Yes ; I apprehend the Board will find difficulties here that they will find nowhere else, there are so many conflicting interests. I have no doubt the Board will be able and competent to keep its own place ; but I am sure it will require their most anxious consideration to get it to work satisfactorily. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 273 3275. You think, as between the Merchant Company and Heriot's Bailie Hospital, difficulties may arise ? — Yes. Lewis 3276. And when a third body, such as the School Board, is ' introduced, you think it will be a very delicate question? — I think it will. With such a board as we have got, I think they will be per- fectly competent to cope with the matter ; but it will require very great consideration. 3277. It is stated in the Provisional Order that the present governors of Heriot's Hospital are a body nearly corresponding to the English School Boards: is that correct? — Yes ; it consists of the 41 members of the corporation, with 13 of the city clergymen, who occupy our national churches, all of whom take a great interest in education ; and it is difficult to conceive any board better constructed. 3278. In the English School Board there would be no corresponding element to the 13 clergymen ? — No ; and, of course, we have no ex officio element in the construction of our School Board. 3279. But among Heriot's governors you have 13 members sitting as the Established clergy ? — Yes, and 41 members of the corporation, making a very popular body. Unless it were proposed to admit some of the Dis- senting clergymen into it, I do not think it could be more popular, neither could it work better than it does. 3280. Do you think there would be any feeling about the admission of some Dissenting clergymen, or some representatives of that class, into the trust ? — I don't think so. I think the Established clergy are exceedingly tolerant ; and their conception of justice is so great, that I don't think they would raise any objection. 3281. I suppose some of the Town Council don't take so much interest in the trust as others ? — No. I must say that they all discharge their duty efficiently, but I have no doubt, as in all boards, there are a few who take especial interest in a question of this kind. 3282. Do you not think that gentlemen elected by the same constituent body, but elected specially for the School Board, would probably all be persons who were interested in education ? — I should think so. 3283. To that extent, therefore, the School Board would perhaps be more competent to deal with educational questions than the Town Council ? — If you have a board specially elected for one specific object, I think it is natural to expect, and we are almost forced to the conclu- sion, that it would be better adapted for that purpose than a board which has a considerable number of other objects to attend to, more especially where they have public duties to perform in connection with the govern- ment of such a city as this. 3284. Do you think there would be any feeling against one or two of the members of the School Board sitting as assessors with Heriot's governors, so as to be cognizant of all their proceedings, and to keep the School Board in friendly relations with them ? — I don't see what objec- tions there could be to that. Certainly I should have none. 3285. Then, so far as your opinion goes, you think there might be a widening of the trust both by admitting representatives of the Dissenting clergy, and also some representatives of the School Board ? — I should certainly have no objection, and I do not think there could be any well- founded objection to that. 3286. And it would probably tend to promote a good understanding between the different bodies ? — Possibly it might. I think it is right and proper at all these public boards that they should be as free and open as possible. I think that all exclusiveness in matters of that sort is to be deprecated. s 274 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie 3287. Mr. Lancaster. — You have never seen any reason to lead you Lewis specially to desire a change in the constitution of the Board ? — No. ' 3288. And you think the School Board can look after its own affairs ? — I think so. 3289. With reference to the question of fees : — You contemplate at least as a possibility having what we will call middle schools, and also technical schools ? — Yes. 3290. Could you do without fees in these schools ? — I think that if we had the revenues loosed from the hospital, we could to a very considerable extent get along without charging any fees even in these schools. If you consider that our revenues are at present between £18,000 and £19,000, and by recent additions and feuing out ground they may in the course of two or three years amount to £22,000 or £23,000, you will see that there is a considerable sum of money to expend. 3291. At all events, I understand your position to be this, that even if you could not provide middle and technical schools gratuitously, you might meet your inability to do that by sending your best pupils to existing schools of that character, and paying their fees for them ? — Distinctly. 3292. That would be the way you would work the thing out ? — Yes, if it was found that our revenues could do that. 3293. With regard to the very poor classes, there are two ways of benefiting them educationally. One would be to devote a certain sum of money, and so to spend it as to give them the means of rising to the middle schools ; and finally, to give those who were worthy of it a uni- versity education ? — Yes. 3294. The other way would be by giving an elementary education and nothing more, but of course to a very much larger circle, with the same sum of money ? — Yes. 3295. Of these two ways, you would prefer the former? — Yes ; keeping in view that it would only be in very exceptional cases that I would propose to expend the money for giving them a high class education. 3296. But you would, on the whole, prefer the former system ; that is to say, you would not propose to devote Heriot's money simply to giving a primary education and nothing more, under any circumstances, to the very poor ? — No ; but as a general rule I would have all the funds expended upon elementary education, and make it exceptional where money was expended upon a high class education. That would only be done where it was found desirable, after a thorough investigation. 3297. It would only be done when it was considered to be for the benefit of the boy and the community that he should be so started in life ? — Yes ; and while I say that, I am satisfied that great mischief could be done by expending money where there was little or no mental material to work upon. 3298. That is to say, you would not regard mere moral qualities as being a reason for giving a university education ? — Quite so. 3299. A boy would require to vindicate by his brains the preference that was given to him ? — Yes. Where there was an absence of brain power, I think it would be a misapplication of the funds altogether. 3300. And the boy would be better without it ? — He would. 3301. Then the extent to which these middle or technical schools would be required could be ascertained very much by the results of bursaries in the schools which already exist ? — It could. We have eight schools, and we are to have other four ; and out of say 6000 children I have no doubt we could get as many properly qualified pupils as would supply a school of a better class. I think we could certainly maintain one school of that kind. I would be no advocate for more than one. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 275 3302. That is to say, your idea of middle and technical schools is Bailie limited by the views you have just expressed as to the expediency of Lewis raising to them boys who were able to take advantage of the instruction ' there given? — Yes. 3303. In that system of selection, would you propose to proceed very much in the same sort of way as in your bursary examinations at present ? —Yes. 3304. That is, reserving a right to choose? — Yes. 3305. But trying if possible that that exceptional right to choose should be exercised very exceptionally? — Yes. 3306. Do you think human nature may be trusted to do that? — 1 think so. We don't generally form very perfect ideas of human nature ; but I think they may be trusted in such a case as a rule. 3307. Has such a right not been at times abused? — I don't know. 3308. You are aware that in the University of Oxford, where such a power of selection had grown up, or been given by the founders, the Commissioners of 1852 found that that power had been abused in such a way, that they had to abolish it and substitute competitive examination ? — I know that in connection with some of the English institutions there were great abuses ; but I don't think, with all due deference, you could establish a case of that kind in our city. Certainly there have not been many. There may have been some. We are by no means perfect in Edinburgh ; but I think, taking us all in all, we would be found to stand a pretty fair comparison with regard to being free from venality. 3309. You think the risk of that would be very small? — I think so. I think that perhaps we have a very good illustration of the way in which such matters have been managed in Edinburgh with reference to the Uni- versity. While we as a corporation had the patronage of the University, I think all our appointments were very satisfactory. 3310. But these appointments are made more in the view of the public than the election of a bursar ? — Yes ; but my impression is, that all these things should be subjected to the light of day, and that public opinion should act as a check. 3311. However, I understand your opinion to be that excellence in the examination is to be the rule of election ? — Certainly. 3312. And so far your system will give a stimulus to education over the country, as competitive examination is calculated to do ? — Yes. 3313. To recur for a moment to the question of fees, the view you have stated of what you desire for the poorer classes is an extended system of education in the elementary branches, and a power to rise by means of bursaries, and so on. If schools charge a small fee, they get a Government grant ? — Yes. 3314. If they do not charge any fee, they do not get the grant? — No. 3315. Don't you think, with the view of carrying out the system of education which you have described, that a small fee, so exigible, would come to be a good investment on behalf of the poor, because we should get the Government grant, and so have more money to spend upon the system? — Personally I should rather retain our independence and freedom. With regard to the Government grants, I may say that in my place in the Town Council, when the Education Act was discussed, J was one of those who were adverse to taking money out of the national funds for the purposes of education. My idea was, that every locality should by local assessment educate its own population, and that we ought not to have any Government control over scholastic institutions. But 1 quite see the force of the Lord Advocate's argument, which was reasonable and just, that when you have money out of the national funds, 276 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie the Privy Council must have some control in the expending of it. As Lewi^ one °PP ose d tne Privy Council having control over our Scotch , " educational institutions, I certainly preferred that we should have done without any Government grant ; but the difficulty, as the Commissioners are aware, is, that where we are working nationally and grants have been given, — and I dare say there are places in Scotland where they become an actual necessity, — it is necessary that the Government should have some control. 3316. Let me ask you for a moment to lay aside your own pre- ference on that matter, and to take the law as it now is. Don't you think, in the light in which I put it to you before, that it might be a good investment for the poor that a small fee should be paid in order to allow more money to be spent out of your funds for bursaries, or in extending education in some way which they might benefit by? — It might in one sense be viewed as a fair investment ; but I should prefer to have local independence in educational matters rather than have the Government grant, although it is advantageous. 3317. You said something as to your idea about what burgesses were in 1623. I presume Heriot himself would have been a burgess in 1623 ; but I rather understood that Heriot was a man having men working under him ? — Yes ; I think you must assume that. 3318. Would these working men have been burgesses or freemen at that date, in terms of the will ? — It is difficult to say. There were excep- tional cases ; but I am disposed to think that Heriot had in his view to embrace all those w T ho were tradesmen generally speaking. I don't know if it has been laid before the Commission, but I have with me a report of the Town Council as far back as 1837, in which I find a paragraph which appears to show that they had that idea at that time, and it throws some light on this very question. At that time there was a proposal to lower the burgess fee. There were strangers being admitted at that time as burgesses. I think the maximum rate was £16 ; then there was a modified rate of £8 for the sons of burgesses, and in some cases it was as low as £6. The committee to whom the matter had been remitted reported in favour of a reduction of the burgesses, and in their report this passage occurs : — ' If these recommendations (that is, to reduce the burgess fees) shall be agreed to, the committee are of opinion that all persons admitted as simple burgesses should really be citizens of Edinburgh in the proper sense of the term, — bona fide residents as householders, or carry- ing on business as masters, in some part of the ancient or extended royalty of the city, and consequently bearing some share of the city burdens, or, as it is technically called, paying " scot and lot." ' 3319. And that is your idea of what would be an accurate definition ? — Yes. Then one sentence more : — ' The committee are of opinion that the very lowest residence (they were speaking against strangers coming into the town for the purpose merely of entering as burgesses for the sake of obtaining the advantages of that position) which can be required within the royalty of the city, either by carrying on business as masters, or by the occupation of dwelling-houses as proprietors or tenants, should be for masters uninterrupted occupancy for one year, and for householders uninterrupted occupancy for three years, at the date of admission.' 3320. Then the English of the whole matter is, that however we inter- pret George Heriot's will, we are certainly not carrying it out now ? — We certainly are not. 3321. And you would be prepared, acting up to the doctrines which are generally recognised now, to disregard the letter of the will so far as to abolish the hospital itself ? — We have departed from the letter of the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 277 will. The out-door schools were totally foreign to the will ; and with Bailie regard to the hospital itself, I would have no hesitation in having it ^wla divested of every boarder in it. I believe it could be shown that the , ' practice of keeping children, more especially those whose parents are alive and in good circumstances, in that hospital, leading a sort of half prison life, has been very prejudicial in many cases. 3322. We have had a good deal of evidence from various people strongly condemnatory of the hospital system, in which condemnation you concur* — Yes. I may mention that there was what was known by the name of Bailie Johnston's resolution passed by the Town Council in 1861, which I think was most objectionable, that no individual should be eligible to have his children in the hospital unless he had been carrying on business for three years, or a householder for six years, residing in a house of not less than £15 rental. The effect of that resolution was this, — and I can conceive nothing more calculated to shut out the very poor people whom George Ileriot meant to benefit, — that the class whose children could be admitted to the hospital was considerably raised. A house of £15 rent ten years ago contained three or four apartments ; and when you had a man who had three or four boys, his boys were not unfrequently put into the hospital by reason of local influence, and then he put boarders into the rooms which were so vacated, and made a commercial speculation out of the benefit which he derived from the hospital. 3323. Did that system last long ? — It lasted until very recently. For some years I tried to get it subverted, but it was only last year that I was able to carry a resolution restoring matters to their former condition, and providing that whoever carried on business for one year, or occupied a house for three years, whatever the rental was, should be eligible to have his children admitted. Incredible as it may appear, it was only then that that resolution was carried and the previous most obnoxious one abolished. 3324. You have told us that your idea of administering this charity would be to go lower down, as it were, than the founder intended ? — Yes. 3325. And of course you justify that by instancing the manner in which other endowments, such as those of the Merchant Company, have been dealt with, and the change which has taken place in society ? — Yes ; in short, if we were to go up in the class that are to be benefited, we would require to go out of Edinburgh. 332 G. Would not the same principle which justifies you in going lower, justify you in going a little wider? — Yes, provided you embraced those within our parliamentary boundaries. 3327. But I am speaking of an area beyond that, — I mean, in Scotland generally ? — I say that if you can embrace all within our parliamentary boundaries, and have them brought properly under the influence of this institution and well educated, then as a matter of course further extension would be an advantage ; and I would have no objection to see the expendi- ture of our revenues so extended, providing that all within our local area were in the first place included. 3328. Do you think, in the first place, that the people of Edinburgh are entitled to have a preference ? — I think so. 3329. But don't you think the benefit to the people of Edinburgh themselves would be very great if a stimulus was given to the education of the whole country? — I am supposing it would be a benefit to Edin- burgh, for this obvious reason, that Edinburgh is to a large extent made up and increased not so much by a native population as by those who are brought in from other parts of the country. 3330. My idea was this, that if by means of this charity you could draw from the poorer classes all over the country, it would, in the first place, 278 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bailie be a national benefit by getting a much wider area on which to work ; Lewis an ^' * n * ne secon d place, it would be a benefit to Edinburgh itself in- . " directly, by raising the standard of education throughout the country, and directly, by making it a great educational centre ? — It must be admitted that it would be a benefit, but I have great difficulty in divesting my mind of the idea of locality. As I have indicated. George Ileriot, like all others, appeared to have a special interest in the locality where he resided ; and I fear that were we to lose sight of that, we would not only be getting away from the spirit of the testamentary deed, but we would be removing a very strong motive which might actuate benevolent gentle- men of large property in the future. 3331. You know, of course, that George Heriot in his will does refer to Scotland ?— Yes. 3332. Therefore he had in view his native country at large as well as Edinburgh ? — Yes. 3333. And he referred specially to St. Andrews ? — Yes. 3334. As to that question of locality, has not the force and meaning of preference for localities changed very much since 1623? — Yes. The railway system has done very much to break down that ; I freely admit that. 3335. You still think that the preference should be maintained, but you concede that it is a consideration carefully to be kept in view whether the effect of locality has not changed ? — Quite so. I am free to say that, by reason of our postal system and our railway communication, those differences betwixt localities, and even betwixt the various parts of the kingdom, have to a great extent been abrogated. 3336. Mr. Sellar. — Suppose the locality of Edinburgh was already sufficiently supplied with schools of the class you want, would you then have any objection to increase the area ? — None whatever, if the funds were confined to education. 3337. Do you know if any steps were taken to ascertain the amount of school accommodation in Edinburgh before the Provisional Order was prepared ? — No. I believe there was a sort of rough estimate got, but I am not sure if it was gone into minutely ; I don't think it was. 3338. There was no education census made by the trustees ? — No ; anything we had was a mere approximation. 3339. And if it should turn out to be the case that Edinburgh is already supplied with the class of schools you want, you have no objec- tion to have the benefits of the trust extended to other localities outside of Edinburgh ? — No ; but I am perfectly satisfied that we are not only not supplied now, but that there is an immense lack of education among the masses of the people. I have occasion to mingle very largely in a variety of ways amongst not merely the inhabitants of the slums of the city, but amongst the working people, — not those certainly of the most virtuous and provident kind ; I don't refer to them, — but I find an immense want of education in the city of Edinburgh. 3340. That may be partly remedied by the compulsory clauses of the Education Act? — I am sure it will; and if that Act had not contained any other clause than the compulsory clause, I think it would be one of the most beneficent measures ever introduced into any country. In my position as a magistrate, one of the first things that struck me was the large number of young men who, when they had enlisted for soldiers and were brought up before me, could not sign their names. 3341. Were they Scotchmen ? — Yes. I used to think, in my igno- rance, that this class was confined more to the Irish population ; but I sometimes asked them where they were born, and they would tell me in MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 279 Edinburgh. What part of the city? Canongate, or Cowgate, or Foun- tainbridge, or Stockbridge. It is perfectly surprising the number of people born in Scotland and Edinburgh who cannot sign their own names. 3342. Is there anything else you wish to state to the Commission ? — There is only one remark I should like to make, and it is pretty much in the way of correcting what I believe to be a misconception upon the question of fees. We hear it frequently stated that free schools have a tendency to pauperize the population. Now I should like to refer to the whole thirty-six years' experience of these free schools in Edinburgh. I am sure the most strenuous advocate for fees would not hesitate to admit that there could be no case found where the tendency of these schools has been to pauperize. They have been most beneficially con- ducted, and the Government Inspector has reported most favourably upon them. 3343. Are they under Government inspection ? — Yes. 3344. In your former evidence you said you were afraid of Govern- ment inspection, as it might interfere with the local governing bodies ? — I did not mean Government inspection ; I have always been an advocate for that. I hold that, wherever we have educational institutions, they ought to be free to the inspection of the Government. It is Government control I fear, not Government inspection. [Adjourned.'] SATURDAY, ISth Jan uary 1873. PRESENT Sir Edward Colebrooke, Bart., Chairman. The Earl of Rosebery. Sir W. Stirling Maxwell. C. S. Parker, Esq., M.P. John Ramsay, Esq. Henry H. Lancaster, Esq. A. C. Sellar, Esq. Dr. Lyon Playfair, M.P., examined. 3345. The Chairman. — You have given much attention to the endowments Dr. Lyon of Scotland applicable to education, and to the hospital system in parti- riayfair, cular? — Some years ago I did, but I have not thought much of the question lately, and therefore my information cannot be taken very much on points of detail. 3346. With regard to the system on which education is given in the hospitals, have you formed any opinion as to the advantages or dis- advantages of the system? — When I formerly looked closely into the system, I formed a very strong opinion against the hospital system, both as regards the parents who sent their children, and the children who were sent. 3347. With reference to the amendments of which the system is sus- P>ailio David Lewis. 280 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon ceptible, do you think it is a system the revenue of which should be PI M p U ' en ti re ty applied in another direction, or that the aim should be to improve ' it so as to retain any of its features ? — My opinion was that the first thing was to break up Avhat is called the monastic system, by which the children were taken away from their parents, and immured in these hospitals ; because that produced a paralyzing effect on the children, and a pauperizing effect on the parents ; and I thought the destruction of that was quite necessary in any scheme of reform. 3348. And that it would not be sufficient merely to give powers to in- troduce changes, but that there should be authority to insist on that ? — Unless there was some general authority to insist upon it, the interests of the public as a whole would be apt to be sacrificed to the interests of classes, and to the interests of localities. 3349. Are you speaking with reference to any particular locality, or any special institutions, or generally ? — I am thinking more especially of Edinburgh, where by far the wealthiest endowments exist. I think that Edinburgh derives its educational position, so far as endowments are concerned, very much from being the capital of Scotland, and that it ought, as the capital of Scotland,, to extend its educational benefits to the country. I don't mean to say that Edinburgh should not be the educational metropolis of Scotland, but that there should be a connection by which the educational institutions in Edinburgh might extend their benefits to provincial schools. 3350. And that the existing hospitals ought to be administered so as to confer larger benefits on the public outside of the city ? — That if you have special and higher schools in Edinburgh, these special and higher schools should be available to the skilled students of provincial schools. 3351. In what way would you propose to do so ? — By means of com- petitive scholarships. 3352. That the hospitals should be, to a considerable extent, fed by scholars introduced by competition from schools outside Edinburgh ? — Yes. 3353. That is to say, whether they are outside or within Edinburgh? — Whether outside or within ; that there should be no preferences either to classes or to the fact of residence in the city of Edinburgh. 3354. Are you speaking specially with reference to Heriot's Hospital in making that observation, or generally ? — Of course, Heriot's Hospital is the one which, at the present moment, requires more thorough reform ; but I have little sympathy with any endowments of classes by bene- factors who lived at a former period, and who probably would have been the first to change had they lived now. Therefore I speak of all endow- ments. 3355. W^ould you not make an exception in favour of endowments specially for cases of orphans ? — That might be so, and very properly ; but I would not make the orphans the orphans of Edinburgh in such a case, if meritorious orphans came from other parts of the country. 3356. But with reference to those in favour of the poor, — the children of persons in distressed circumstances, — you would endeavour to throw them open more generally, by making the conditions of admission deter- mined by competition rather than by selection ? — Certainly. I think no condition was more favourably received by Parliament when the Endowed Schools Act passed through Parliament, than that all schools should be open to competition and to merit, and not to patronage. 3357. Was that expressly stated in the Act, or was it stated generally by Mr. Forster as the principle on which it must be carried out ? — It was only stated as the principle; but that principle was admitted in all MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 281 the discussions, and the objections to that principle have only arisen in Dr. Lyon localities where reforms have been attempted. P! ™ y p ir ' 3358. There were very strong recommendations to that effect in the x ' ' report of the Schools Inquiry Commission ? — There were. 3359. And Mr. Forster expressed his opinion that this should be the principle on which these endowments should in future be administered? — That was so. 3360. Have you any other remark to make with reference to Heriot's Hospital ? — I have a good many remarks to make about Heriot's Hospital if we consider it specially just now — I mean upon principle; but I have not visited Heriot's Hospital for a long time, and therefore I cannot give you evidence as to its specific state. 33G1. With reference to Heriot's Hospital as well as the others, you would wish that the condition of admission should be by competition, arid not by selection ? — I would. Speaking generally, Heriot's Hospital con- sists of two parts, — the school on the hospital system, and the out-of- door elementary schools, and now, I believe, the evening schools. I think that the mere elementary schools are altogether wrong in prin- ciple. George Heriot's purpose was to raise the education above the standard which existed, when he became the benefactor of Edin- burgh ; and I believe, if he had lived just now, he would have still attempted to arrange his benefaction so as to raise that standard. The elementary schools are good elementary schools in their way, — excellent, I believe, as common elementary schools ; but they are relieving the ratepayers of duties which the State now imposes on them, and I think it would be of great importance that they should be first-class elementary schools if they are to be kept as out-door schools ; that it would be a great object to get into them through merit ; that they should not be simply good elementary schools, but that they should be a very high class of elementary schools, carrying education up to the highest point to which it is carried in any elementary school in Scotland. In that way you could make admission to them by merit from the lower elementary schools supported by the ratepayers ; but merely to relieve the ratepayers by giving elementary schools for the poor is not, as I con- ceive, the purpose to which a public endowment should be given. 3362. Would you state what you mean by higher elementary schools, and to what limit you would give the admission to them in point of qualification ? — I would take, for instance, the first-class parish schools as you find them in the north, under the influences of the Dick and other bequests ; and the education should be made quite as high as you could get it in these parish schools, and of a better kind ; for I think that the character of the parish schools, even where the higher education is given, is still much with reference to the ministry, and perhaps to other profes- sions, and therefore I would introduce more modern subjects into those better class schools than exist now in the parish schools. 3363. In that case would there be in these schools any elementary teaching of the very young, or would you have children of a certain age to be admitted to them ? — I think, for example, you could with great propriety say that standard six should be the condition for passing in, and that you should begin where the miserable amount of education which the elementary schools now give ends. Anything under standard five, according to the reports of the inspectors, does not give a child such instruction as stands the wear and tear of life — it vanishes from him. If you were to take such a standard as that, you would be doing great good to the population, and you would be using such schools as feeders for the higher schools, into which, I think, Heriot's Hospital should be converted. 282 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon 3364. You would maintain Heriot's Hospital as a school for founda- P M y p ir ' tt 01161 * 8 chiefly ; would you have them entirely admitted by competitive , examination ? — If I had my own way, I would say entirely ; but you are obliged to make compromises on these subjects in all schemes that you bring forward, and a certain number of foundationers from privileged classes may be necessary as a compromise. In regard to my own opinion, I don't think there should be. 3365. As regards the condition in Heriot's will, that the school is to be for fatherless bairns, you would not object to a certain portion of the funds being so applied ? — Certainly not. As to a certain portion of them, but by no means the whole, I think it would be desirable to do so. But what strikes me as wanted very much in this country, and as wanted in Edinburgh, is a first-class trade and commercial school, such as you will find in almost all cities of the Continent, — a school of a high class, — not what is understood here by a commercial school, but a school where the sciences bearing upon trade, and the sciences bearing upon commerce, are thoroughly taught in a systematic manner, up to about seventeen years of age. 3366. Are you speaking now of the application of any surplus that might arise out of the Heriot fund in that way, or do you mean that the Heriot school should be converted into such a school ? — That the Heriot school should be converted into such a school. I think that would carry out the principle for which Heriot left his money, which was to advance the education of his country bearing upon trade and industry. 3367. Do you think that by that means the whole of the Heriot funds would be absorbed in a school of that kind, together with the higher elementary schools which you spoke of ? — I don't know the exact amount of the Heriot funds, but such a school would cost a good deal of money if it were carried out in the large and full way that these schools are con- ducted on the Continent, where large sums are expended in the proper organization of such schools ; and especially if you also connected that school by means of scholarships with other districts in Scotland so as to feed it from these districts, and if you also connected it, as you ought to do, with the universities of Scotland, I think you would find that even large funds would be required. 3368. Are the trade and commercial schools of which you speak, schools that we have any examples of in this country at present ? — You have none upon the full organization that there should be. There is a commencement of one, which has gone on with considerable success for some years — the Trades School of Bristol ; but the Trades School of Bristol, which is the best example, is by no means so fully organized as the schools I mean, and nothing comparable to the schools which you will find at Stuttgardt, or in almost every capital town, and indeed every large town in Germany, and also in the chief towns of Holland. There is an incipient one at Keighley, following in the steps of the Bristol school ; but there is no such school as Heriot's, with its large funds, might become, if fully equipped and properly organized. 3369. In the original scheme for Heriot's Hospital there is provision for sending a certain portion of the boys to the University by means of bursaries. Would you do away with that ? — On the contrary, I think unless you complete your steps from the lower elementary schools to the upper elementary schools of Heriot's Hospital, and through the out-door schools to Heriot's Hospital itself, and then to the universities, you don't make a graded system worthy of a large endowment like Heriot's Hospital. 3370. Then the commercial school would admit of different classes of instruction being carried on at the same time, both for those whose aim MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 283 was trade, and those who were aiming at scholastic education ? — Exactly ; Dr. Lyon and if I might be allowed to explain myself a little further as to that, I pl jjj y p ir ' would say that universities originally arose out of the wants of profes- ' sions. The earliest universities were generally created by single profes- sions. For instance, the University of Salerno was created for medicine ; the University of Bologna was created for law ; the University of Paris was created for theology ; and other faculties gradually came round them. The universities originally were the great liberalizers of professions ; but they have ceased to maintain their connection with trades and professions, and have forgotten their purpose of being the liberalizers of professions. My own impression is, that there is a movement in the Scottish universi- ties which will very quickly establish them in their original intention of being the great liberalizers of professions and trades ; and I think Heriot's Hospital might work in that direction, by preparing many classes of students, such as medical students, for the scientific basis of their profes- sion, and giving to law students, engineers, architects, manufacturers, merchants, and others, that scientific basis which is necessary now for the practice of any profession in a liberal way. 3371. You would introduce into these schools something more of phy- sical science ? — A good deal of natural and physical science, of physical, commercial, and political geography, of modern history, of modern languages, and all things connected with trade and commerce, — the principles which lie at the basis of trade and commerce. 3372. In the event of there being any surplus after providing for schools of this kind, have you considered in what other mode it might be most bene- ficially applied ? — Not in the large sense in which you ask the question ; because I don't know what is the surplus. I know that such a scheme as I have given you will absorb a large amount of money. But I may be allowed to say, as a member for the University of St. Andrews, that I think St. Andrews has an equitable claim on your consideration from the terms of George Heriot's will, in which, if his purposes were not fulfilled, he provided that his funds were to be devoted to the University of St. Andrews. Now there is one profession which, curiously enough, was created by universities, and yet has parted altogether from universities. Originally the graduates of universities were simply teachers. The gradu- ates were professional teachers ; and one great object of the univer- sities was the creation of these professional teachers. Now there is a strong tendency, as shown by the Education Act for Scotland, which allows the degrees of universities to count for examination, to revert to that old plan of the universities ; and I think St. Andrews is well fitted for taking up that profession, viz. the training of teachers. I think also it would be an equitable and just thing for Heriot's Hospital to found a professorship of teaching in St. Andrews, as Edinburgh, from some other endowments, is likely to get a professorship of teaching. 3373. You speak of a professorship of teaching for elementary as well as secondary schools ? — I mean a professorship for the ugly word 4 peda- gogy ; ' we have not a better word. 3374. Are you acquainted with the systems in use abroad for that purpose ? — I am. acquainted with the systems for the lower class schools abroad. 3375. I mean in regard to the special training of teachers? — Yes. T am not aware that for a very high class school, such as our Rugbys or Etons, there is any such system. 3376. There are for the middle class, are there not? — I have not seen them. I may state that had I been in London last week, I was to have presided at a large meeting called for the purpose of trying to organize 284 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon middle-class teachers into a profession ; but the purpose of that meeting P *M p U ' was *° a ^ ow " them to study at the universities, and to give them a state licence by examination. I do not think it was the purpose of that meeting to establish training colleges. 3377. You think the object would be better attained by being part of the instruction of a university than by having a special college for the purpose? — I do; for this reason, that though strongly advocating for many years technological education, I have always had a doubt of the wisdom of special schools for professions, because I think, though these give length, they want breadth, and they do not give that mental training which can be got better at the universities than at any separate institutions. 3378. Do you think that St. Andrews is better fitted for that than the other universities ? — I think so ; for this reason, that St. Andrews is a retired town, where there is a considerable economy of living for the students, and where there are none of the more active professions, such as medicine and the law, with richer students, to interfere with the poor class of students, who, especially for elementary teachers, would like to go to a university of more moderate habits. 3379. And if it was taken up as you suppose, they would be likely to feed a large portion of Scotland ? — I think they would. A university never can teach all that is necessary for the training of students. It cannot teach the practice of teaching, and a few other things which the teacher requires ; but that could be easily provided by external arrange- ments outside the university. In St. Andrews it could be admirably done through the Madras College, where there is a large teaching school, in which the teachers might obtain a practical acquaintance with their art. 3380. They would visit these schools ? — To practise in teaching. , 3381. You have given attention to technical instruction? — Yes, very much. 3382. And you have visited some of the technical schools abroad? — I have visited most capitals in Europe, and examined the technical schools in them, and also the chief provincial towns on the Continent. 3383. Suggestions have been made to us that more should be done in this country for technical education. We should be glad to have the advantage of your opinion on that subject, from your experience abroad ? — There is so much difference in the meaning of the words, that if you will allow me, I would like to explain that there is technical education, meaning education in the sciences bearing upon industries ; and there is technological education, in which you teach a man the profession of his industry. I found abroad sometimes, that where there were techno- logical schools, they dwarfed the universities of the countries, and made them insignificant, diminishing much the breadth of culture in the places where they occurred. For example, at Zurich, there is a tech- nological institution, with a building as large as Buckingham Palace, and a magnificent museum, crowded by the students of all nations, and the University of Zurich close beside it is dwarfed and insignifi- cant. You find that occurring where you give a preponderance to technological instruction in the professions, and you are apt in that way to separate them from general culture. I confess that in this country I should more like to see technical institutions laying the basis of the sciences necessary for the application to industry. These would suffice, especially in Scotland, where you have four universities quite willing to extend their instruction in connection with the professions and in connec- tion with industries also, as these industries rise into importance. For example, Glasgow and Edinburgh have professorships of engineering ; MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 285 Edinburgh has a professorship of agriculture: and I think you may Dr. Lyon carry on the sciences of professional training directed to the profession P1 ^p ir ' itself, with better results to the whole public, in the universities than in separate technological institutions. Therefore I am more inclined to advo- cate in this country technical institutions than technological institutions. 3384. What branches of industry do you think would require to be treated in the universities besides agriculture and engineering? — You cannot teach in either of these the actual practical part of the professions. For instance, in Edinburgh we give a degree in engineering; but we require a man to get the practice of engineering outside of the Univer- sity, and to produce certificates that he has got his practice elsewhere. He is taught in the University mechanical drawing, and the sciences bearing on engineering, and the application of these sciences to engineer- ing itself; but the practice of it must be learned elsewhere. And so the technical schools should be confined to the sciences bearing upon different industries, and their applications to these. 3385. The technical instruction which you contemplate would be given on the completion of a university education, when the student is going to be launched into the world f — Yes ; the higher technical instruc- tion, w T hen made a development of the university system. 3386. You do not suppose that it could be introduced with effect into the elementary schools, or the secondary schools? — I think that, with great advantage, you could introduce into the secondary schools much more of the sciences bearing on industries and on common fife than is now done. 3387. But not as professional education ? — No. 3388. You think the scientific education is not sufficiently developed in our schools at present ? — I think it does not exist at all, except in rare instances. It scarcely exists in the provinces, and is only beginning to have a small development even in the capitals. 3389. Are you speaking of experimental physics? — Theoretical and experimental physics, and theoretical and experimental chemistry ; and also natural history. But there is a strong tendency everywhere just now to supplement instruction in all the sciences by a manipulative and practical acquaintance with them. I may give an illustration of what I mean. The other day I visited Professor Huxley's class at South Ken- sington, and I found between thirty and forty persons, — and among them a Scotch schoolmistress, — with thirty or forty pigeons before them, en- gaged in dissection. I found that they had been occupied for some weeks in dissecting a frog ; so that not only are we having chemical and physical laboratories, but natural history laboratories. 3390. Mere observation in the sciences is actually conveyed in the elementary schools ; but you are speaking of the higher experimental sciences in the secondary schools ? — I know very few elementary schools throughout the country where instruction even in the sciences of observa- tion is given. 3391. They give what is found in the text-books? — That is miserable. I do not know any case where scientific instruction is given as it is on the Continent in elementary schools. 3392. What sort of instruction do you refer to ? — For instance, I was lately in the Black Forest, and went to some of the schools there, and I found that the upper boys had the elements of chemistry, physics, and natural history taught them, even in the little villages of Baden. If I met a boy in the Forest of Baden, he generally could tell me the botanical names of the trees and plants, and he was well drilled in the elements of the sciences. 286 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon 3393. Of what age were these boys ? — Perhaps ten to twelve. P1 MP ' 3394. Was it part of their special training* ? — It was part of their _U special training in the schools which I visited. 3395. Would you make it part of the regular course of education that they should receive such training in the elementary schools ? — Yes, in the elements ; and be able to carry them on in the secondary schools. I would, for instance, wish that every boy should know what was the nature of the air he breathed, what was the nature of the water he drank, what was the nature of the food he ate, and somewhat of the physiology of his own body. I think these are things that ought to be taught in every school ; and if these things are taught well, pupils are taught a great deal of science. 3396. To arrive at that, the schoolmasters would require to be taught in the first instance ? — They would. 3397. A higher teaching would require special teachers? — You must make it part of the schoolmaster's certificate to require a knowledge of such elementary science. I think our country has gone much back- wards in that respect. A few years ago it was being developed pretty fast in our schools ; but since the Revised Code the conditions for it have disappeared, and the qualifications of our teachers have much receded. 3398. Was experimental physics taught in the schools ? — It was beginning to be taught. Grants for apparatus were given by the Privy Council; and it was taught not unfrequently, when the Revised Code came and struck it all away. 3399. Do you think it could be made the subject of the same intel- lectual training as education in languages or mathematics ? — It does not train the same faculties, but it trains other faculties which are of great importance. It trains the faculties of observation, and it also teaches good induction. It trains many faculties which it is desirable to train. 3400. Can it be put to students to the same effect in the way of test- ing them, as a passage in a foreign language, or a problem in mathe- matics ? — Yes ; if the schoolmaster is trained, and can do it. The week before last, I took a chance class of girls in a Derbyshire school, which I hap]3ened to visit, and I tried the experiment of giving them a lesson on water, and made them find out the problems by what I said, and I found that had an admirable effect in developing their notions. 3401. Is there any other remark on that branch of the subject which you wish to make to us ? — No, I think not. 3402. Is there any other suggestion you wish to make to us with reference to the subject of our inquiry ? — I do not know that there is any other, unless it may arise on the examination. 3403. The Earl of Rosebery. — You said you would like to apply the funds of Heriot's Hospital to a trade and commercial school. Can you give us some more definite idea what you meant, because you said it was not what is ordinarily meant by a commercial school ? — I published, a good many years ago, — I think so long ago as 1853, — an account of the chief industrial schools on the Continent, and I gave the curriculum fol- lowed in each of these schools. If the Commission would, through their secretary, get a copy of that pamphlet, you would find very clearly what is done in continental schools in carrying out such a scheme. 3404. Mr. Ramsay. — What was its title? — Industrial Education on the Continent. The pamphlet is out of print, but you will find it in the volume of the records of the School of Mines. Generally these schools embrace such subjects as modern languages, natural history, chemistry, physics, political economy, physical geography, commercial geography, history, bookkeeping, and such subjects. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 287 3405. The Earl of Rosebery. — Would you not be met with the pre- Dr. Lyon liminary difficulty of finding teachers for such a school ? — No doubt you p ir ' would. Such schools have not existed in this country, and you would have that difficulty ; but if you pay, you will find men. If you offer inducements, there are men to be had in this country. I could myself point out qualified men who could be had in different parts of the country. There are not many, but there are quite sufficient to establish a good technical school at present, and it would do as a model school for others. 3406. What is the Bristol school ? — It is simply a trade school. It arose out of a diocesan school, and chiefly through the efforts of the Rev. Canon Mosely, who asked my aid at the time, and we converted the school into a trade school, which has been singularly successful ; but it has limited funds, and it is only a trade school to the degree to which they have teachers. 3407. It is not a self-supporting school ? — Very nearly. It has some small endowments, and it wins a great deal from the Government grants by its scientific examinations. 3408. If it is nearly a self-supporting school, such a school would not nearly occupy the Heriot funds ? — The Merchant Company schools have been so successful, that if it is as successful in proportion to them, you would have a good deal of self-support from it, and still large surplus funds to deal with. 3409. You would propose, I suppose, in this school, to educate teachers of trades as well as men for their own trades ? — No, I don't view it as a school for teachers, but simply as a school for boys, of whom a certain proportion will go on to the University, and a certain proportion will go into trades without going to the University. Take even the best schools in the country, only one-fifth of the boys go to the University, and four- fifths of them go into trade and commerce. Therefore you must prepare them for both. 3410. You said it would be connected with the universities. How would you propose to do that ? — By scholarships open competition. 3411. In these particular subjects ? — In these particular subjects. 3412. I do not clearly understand why you preferred technical to technological instruction for Scotland ? — Because you have universities of the people in Scotland. Your universities are not universities for the rich, but they are open and available to the people ; and I think you have got in your universities the means of extending professional educa- tion, and at the same time of connecting that professional education with general culture. 3413. Would your school be a technological school, and your profes- sorship a technological professorship? — My school would not be a technological school, but a technical school, teaching only the sciences bearing on the trades and industries, and not attempting to teach the trades and industries themselves. 3414. You make no provision, then, for technological teaching? — Not in such a school, except as giving the principles bearing on the sciences connected with the trades and industries. You might have a workshop w ith advantage ; you would certainly have mechanical drawing, and chemical laboratories — all that bears on technology, because all these things are necessary for technology. But you would not teach the industries themselves. You would not teach a man there to be an engineer, or a carpenter, or a mason, though you would teach him to use tools. You would not teach him to be a chemical manufacturer, though you would teach him chemistry. If you had large surplus funds, 288 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyou it would be an extremely good thing to use them for the development of P M y p ir ' teacners w i tn sucn scientific knowledge, through other institutions ; but ' I do not view that as a place for training teachers at all, except inasmuch as all large schools are places for training teachers, by giving lower teachers the chance of rising into other places. 3415. Your wish to introduce scientific instruction in the ordinary schools, and also to furnish a commercial school in Edinburgh, would give rise to an enormous demand for a class of new teachers ? — Yes ; and that you would have to provide elsewhere, but not in a commercial school. 3416. Do you see a very imminent danger for our manufactures in the want of scientific knowledge? — I see a great danger; because every day our advantages in regard to raw material are vanishing with the improvement of communications. Skill becomes the most important factor in industry; whereas formerly the raw materials were the most important factor in industry. For example, you have Switzerland com- peting with Coventry ; the town of Basle competes with Coventry in the same class of goods ; and yet Switzerland has to import its silk over the mountains, and all its coal from Belgium and Germany. But notwith- standing these obstacles, the high class of technological persons who are supplied by the technological school at Zurich, enables it to compete by means of knowledge and skill with other countries which have the advan- tage of the raw material. Unless you improve the sciences bearing on industries in this country, we are likely to suffer, as indeed we do now. 3417. So that the Swiss artisan is immeasurably superior to the English artisan? — Very greatly, in point of scientific and artistic skill and knowledge. 3418. Could that danger be put so clearly to the commercial classes who defend these hospitals, as to make such a proposal popular among them? — Some years ago, when coming back from the Exhibition of 1867, I had a conversation with Lord Taunton, the President of the Endowed Schools Commission, upon the subject of the scientific education given to artisans and other people in continental countries, and the great effect it was having on our industries. Lord Taunton requested me to put what I had said in writing, and it was sent to all the jurors who had been at the Exhibition in France, and had seen the effects on the industries of the different countries ; and there is a blue-book in which all of them express, in the strongest way, their entire concurrence with my fears ; but although that blue-book was published as part of the Report of the Endowed Schools Commission — and no stronger documents exist any- where on the subject, or express such strong alarm by so many influential people — it has had no effect. Perhaps it may succeed in another generation in convincing commercial people, but commercial people and manufacturers are very difficult to convince. 3419. The shoe has not pinched them yet? — It does pinch them; but they have a number of foreign draughtsmen and foreign chemists. A great many are German chemists, and foreign talent is imported by English capital. 3420. We have no such supply ourselves ? — We are gradually getting up a better supply of chemists, but in technically trained men in other branches of knowledge we are considerably in the rear. 3421. The Chairman. — In regard to technical instruction, do you con- template instruction for adults? — I think some of the surplus funds, especially of Heriot's Hospital, could be applied with the greatest ad- vantage more to the technological instruction of artisans. For example, I think it was in August last year that I published two letters in the Scotsman, which it might be useful for you to refer to, giving an account MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 289 of a semi-official visit which I paid to Stuttgardt, to examine the educa- Dr. Lyon tional institutions there. The Government of Stuttgardt invited me to P1 § r p ir ' see their institutions ; and I gave, though not under my own signature, ' an account of my visit there, in which you will find that in the town of Stuttgardt they have one place in which, if I recollect right, there are 7 00 artisans of the building trades taught. It is a palace which was built for the building trades. If you will look at these letters, you will find stated the kind of instruction given in these technological institutions ; and I think that now, particularly in Edinburgh, such a school would be of importance. I had placed in my hands yesterday a proposal for converting Heriot's Hospital into such a school for the building trades by Mr. Cousin, the architect. He gives very well there the character of instruction that should be given in such an institution. (Witness hands it in.) Now I think that such might be given in evening classes with great advantage to trades connected with the city of Edinburgh; and that might make the surplus practically available. 3422. By opening evening classes for this special object for adults ? — Yes. I may mention that in Stuttgardt I found 700 of the building trades coming from all parts of Wurtemburg to that school, and they find the education so advantageous, that they get places readily afterwards. Therefore the school exerted its influence on the whole kingdom, and not on the town of Stuttgardt alone. 3423. Mr. Lancaster. — Those commercial schools abroad — of which you give Stuttgardt as one leading example, — what are their relations to the German universities ? — They have no such relations : they are altogether independent of the universities, and very often rivals. 3424. Do many students go from them to the universities? — None. On the contrary, they are apt to dwarf the universities. 3425. Are you speaking of the technological schools ? — Yes. 3426. I speak of the commercial schools, such as you spoke of at Stuttgardt ? — There are several at Stuttgardt. They are both techno- logical and reale schools, which are more of the character of technical schools. They are very rich in technical schools in Stuttgardt, as well as technological ones. 3427. You spoke with reference to what you would establish here, — in the first place commercial schools, and in the second place a technical school ? — No. What I meant was, that I would have a high class of what the Germans call by the name of reale schools, where the realities as against the classics and other subjects of the gymnasia are taught. Such schools would lay the basis of the sciences both for trade and for commerce. 3428. If you spoke of commercial schools and technical schools, in using these words, you meant to imply the same thing, and some- thing different from technological schools ? — Yes ; I meant that the school should be a first class school for teaching the sciences involved in trade and commerce. 3429. If boys in Scotland remained at such schools up to the age of seventeen, would that not have a dwarfing effect on our universities ? — I have in the press, just now, a pamphlet on the relations of universities to the professions; and in that pamphlet I advocate a reconstruction of the lower degrees in arts, — not by one curriculum, but by various roads leading up to the lower degree of arts, each of which should be a distinct preparation for a profession ; and if I am successful in the reform that I contemplate, I think the lower degree of arts should be one attain- able about eighteen ; and if a scholar went away from sixteen to seventeen, he might still be induced to go through a further liberal culture in the universities, as leading to the profession which he is about to follow. 290 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon 3430. You mean that there should be a higher university degree which 'm.p"' W0ll ld imply general culture? — Which would imply not perhaps the higher culture, but more the mediaeval culture. 3431. Without any necessary reference to a profession? — Yes, without any necessary reference to a profession, if they chose to take it. 3432. That would imply the founding of several chairs in our univer- sities for physical sciences ? — We have already got them in our Scotch universities. As the thing developed, there might be more technological chairs in our universities than they possess just now ; but the general sciences are well represented. 3433. You said that the higher degree would be taken by a course of study represented by the mediaeval curriculum. Would you introduce into it any physical sciences at all ? — Yes. There is a growing feeling in all the universities to do that, even in Oxford and Cambridge. 3434. You would not exclude it ? — Certainly not. I would make the M.A. a higher degree, and I would make the B.A. what it originally was — the has chevalier leading to the other. 3435. With reference to restrictions as to locality in such endowments as we have in Edinburgh, you would now disregard them altogether, owing to the changes of society ? — I don't know how far you indicate restrictions of locality. I think it would be a hard thing to take away the endow- ments from Edinburgh and give them to Dollar or Glasgow. 3436. But I meant that you would disregard restrictions as to place of birth with reference to the persons to be on the foundation ? — Certainly. 3437. You would do that with reference to foundations in other parts of Scotland ? — Certainly. That restricts your choice very much. There is no more reason for having a boy of the name of Stewart in a school, than for saying that you should only have boys with hooked noses in the school. You thereby restrict the field of your choice. 3438. With reference to competitive examination, have you thought of any way of testing the merits of very young people otherwise than by competitive examination? — I think that is a very serious question. On the whole, I think we are, in this country, running into great dangers with reference to competitive examinations. If you look at France, you will find that the intellect of France is stimulated when young, but ex- hausted soon by competitive examinations. There are scarcely any members of the Institute that make discoveries worth anything after they are forty. They have had severe competitive examinations to enter into the Polytechnic and the Ecole Centrale, and the various schools; and their intellect seems to be exhausted in youth by competitive examinations. We want to get in people by merit ; but whether that merit should always be ascertained by competitive examination, and not by the position they take by their regular work in school, is another question. I think if you could ascertain that, it would be better. That is a great danger. 3439. There might be expedients, such as you indicate, after the boys are in the school ; but the great difficulty is how to let them in at first otherwise than by competitive examination? — The subject of competitive examinations as it is growing up in the country gives me a considerable degree of anxiety ; I am beginning to be alarmed at them. 3440. With reference to young people ? — With reference to people up to twenty-five. 3441. But with reference to academical competitive examinations, I suppose you think there is no great hardship in subjecting persons from eighteen to twenty-two, as at Oxford and Cambridge, to competitive examinations ? — I think even there their health often breaks down, and manv are worth nothing afterwards. X MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 291 3442. With reference to promotion in this way, we have had this kind Dr. Lyon of argument addressed to us : A poor person has not had the advantages P1 ^p ir ' of early training that a richer person has, and he comes to an examination ' at a disadvantage accordingly ; and therefore there must be some power of patronage to select the poorer persons who may not have done as well in examinations ? — No doubt ; but on the other hand, if you have a poor person with ambition, he overcomes these difficulties, and is often in- tellectually better than the richer man, who has not that ambition to rise in the world. 3443. I suppose you would not approve of encouraging the poor to go on to the University and study professions unless they were intellectually peculiarly well fitted for such a career ? — Certainly not. 3444. And I suppose you think the overcoming of these difficulties of early training, etc., would not be a bad test of their possessing the requi- site intellectual ability ? — It would be a fair test. 3445. Mr. Sella?-. — The graded system you referred to, as I understand, was to consist of the elementary schools, — the Heriot elementary schools, — the Heriot trades school, and then the universities ? — Yes. 3446. What is the distinction which you draw between the elementary school and the Heriot elementary school? — Take the first-class schools aided by the Dick or Milne bequests, and don't make it inferior to that. 3447. The great merit of the Dick schools is their classical superiority ? — I think you might introduce classics, or their equivalent in modern languages, or in the natural sciences. You might make a rule not to admit any to the Heriot elementary schools unless they could pass standard six. 3448. Would the higher subjects in the elementary schools be scientific subjects ? — Yes ; the modern languages, history and geography, and such subjects, which are all necessary in the trade and commercial school. 3449. Would the connection between the trades school and the uni- versities be by means of bursaries ? — Scholarships. 3450. To what faculty in the universities? — I should give them a pretty large selection — whichever faculty they liked to go into. 3451. Would you give bursaries to the theological faculties? — I would give them bursaries that they might win, and they might do as they liked. If they find that theology is what they want, I would not exclude them from that. 3452. You would not restrict them to mining, agricultural, or engineer- ing chairs ? — Not in the least. I would like them to take their own capabilities as an index for a profession. 3453. Do they give degrees in agriculture at the University now ? — No, they do not. That was a matter sent up to the University Court, and they accepted the degree of engineering, but I don't think they accepted the degree of agriculture. 3454. Have there been any degrees in engineering taken? — Yes, I think so, but I am not positive. 3455. Do professorships of teaching or pedagogy exist in continental universities? — I don't know that they exist in the universities ; but they do exist in the training schools. 3456. Chairs of pedagogy? — Yes. I don't recollect whether they exist in the universities or not. 3457. What is the nature of the duties of a professor of pedagogy? — He has to describe the different systems of education. Education has now become as much an art as almost anything else. He has to describe the applications of science bearing on the practice of that art, just as a professor of engineering has to explain the principles of the several sciences 292 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon bearing on his art, and as the professor of agriculture has to do ; there P1 M^p ir ' are manv things bearing on his art as to which he must describe the best method of teaching. 3458. Did I understand you to say that English artisans are inferior to continental artisans in respect to recent inventions ? — I don't think the unskilled English artisan is inferior to the unskilled continental artisan. On the contrary, I think he is very much superior, when he is a skilled artisan, to the continental one ; but the point where we are much inferior is where science is to be brought to bear on his industry. All the great engineering inventions have been made in this country. A good many of the chemical inventions have been made abroad. 3459. Mr. Bamsay. — On what ground do you base your remark that it was George Heriot's intention to raise the standard of education existing at the time he made his will ? — I did not remark that with reference to George Heriot particularly, but with reference to all educational endowers. Their object was to raise the standard of education existing at their time, and to make it better than any relations with the State made it then. 3460. But George Heriot does state expressly in his settlement that his object was to provide an hospital for the education and upbringing of youth, of poor orphans and fatherless children of decayed burgesses and freemen. Do you think that if funds were provided by any one for educating orphans, the Legislature should interfere with the application of these funds to that purpose? — Within a given period his des- tination should be respected, but I think no man has a right to state what is to be the destination of his endowment for all time. I don't think you have any more right to do that than to destine your property for all time. Things alter completely. You know that there are endowments of that kind — not educational endowments, but endowments that have lost all meaning — in London. There is one with reference to the killing of lady-birds in Cornhill. Now there are no lady- birds in Cornhill. There is another endowment for the purpose of re- leasing English captives from Barbary, and there are now no English captives to release. When George Heriot left his money for orphans and fatherless children, there were not State endowments provided for them. The State now accomplish that as a duty ; and as the circumstances are different from those in which the benefactor left his endowment, I think the public have a right to revise his conditions. 3461. As there are to be rate- supported schools to provide elementary education, don't you think the ratepayers should receive the advantage of lessening the rate by the use of George Heriot's funds ? — No, I don't think that. In the revision of the endowments of Scotland, I don't think that the mere relief of the ratepayers is a worthy national object. I think it is the first duty of the ratepayers, under recent legislation, to provide education. They provide far less elementary education in England as regards ratepayers than any other country that I know of in Europe. On the Continent you will always find that the duty of mere elementary instruction is thrown wholly on the ratepayers. The Government don't aid that, except by inspection. Their great aid to instruction abroad is in developing the higher instruction out of elementary instruction, which they consider the duty of the ratepayers of the localities. We give about one-half Government aid to the ratepayers. Therefore our ratepayers are not nearly so hardly borne upon as in other countries ; and I think that when you are going to revise the endowments of our country, yon should rather look to the development of lower education into higher edu- cation by a graded system. 3462. Assuming endowments to have been left for the support of MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 293 schools in a specified locality, do you think the Legislature should inter- Dr. Lyon fere to prevent their use for the support of schools within that locality, PJ ^ 1 y p lr ' on the ground merely that the ratepayers would be relieved by its i ' application to these schools ? — I have not advocated that you should take the schools out of the locality, but I have advocated that the endow- ments should be made to supplement, not to substitute, the duty of the ratepayers to provide elementary instruction for the people. For in- stance, I believe that nine- tenths perhaps of the funds which the Govern- ment and the ratepayers of this country employ for elementary education, might just as well be thrown into the sea for any practical effect that they produce ; and I think you might produce in this locality very large and important effects, by taking it out of that low condition of educa- tion which is of little practical use to men in after life, and make it of some use to them in after life. 3463. Bearing in remembrance the necessity of instructing children in the elementary branches taught in our schools, do you think that our teachers, even if they were qualified, would have time to bring forward their pupils in the elementary branches usually taught, and also in the elements of natural science ? — I think you have this evidence, that where the higher subjects are taught in a school, the lower subjects are taught better. With a large wave of instruction, the children are carried on much better over the lower elementary subjects by the larger wave. You must not neglect the lower branches ; but where the higher branches are best taught, the lower branches are generally best taught too. 3464. With reference to the workshop, which you suggest might be connected with a technical school, don't you think the students attending such a technical school would derive greater advantage from practice in one of our ordinary workshops than in a workshop connected with the school ? — Far more, as regards any instruction in their art; but I suggested it merely to give them a knowledge of the use of tools. Take the case of the Whitworth scholarships. Sir Joseph Whitworth will not give them to any one who has not a thorough knowledge of the use of tools. Now they cannot enter shops where they can acquire this ; and in most of these technical schools it is usual to have workshops where that is taught. With reference to application to industry, they learn that far better in shops than in any shop of a school. 3465. In comparison with other countries, I understand you to say that we are rather falling behind in our manufacturing establishments, in our products, in competition with other countries. Is that your opinion ? — We are met in a great many markets now that we were not met in formerly, with products that were almost exclusively English, but which we meet with now elsewhere. 3466. Is it your opinion that our manufacturers fail to employ tho best skill that is available for improving their products ? — I think that is so very often. 3467. To what cause do you attribute that? — To want of skilled knowledge. Let me give you one illustration. Some years ago, I was sent for to a large glasswork which had recently come into the possession of its proprietors. I found that the manager of the glasswork had left suddenly owing to a quarrel, and that the owners of the work were on their beam ends. They did not know even of what glass consisted. They were left without a person who knew the chemical principles on which glass was constituted ; and it took some time before we could get them into a condition in which they could go on with their work again. There is a general idea in this country that practice is everything, and science nothing; and you continually find manufacturers carrying on their trade 294 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Lyon without the slightest idea of the ordinary scientific principles on which P j!?p ir ' ^ e ^ r ^ ra( ^ e * s based. I Q hmited companies, managed by directors, I often ' meet the most amusing instances of this ignorance. 3468. You think it is a common thing that the men who are engaged in our manufactories are themselves largely ignorant of the principles of the sciences that ought to be applied ? — I think they are largely ignorant of these principles, though they, of course, usually know the rule-of-thumb practice. 3469. The Chairman. — You said there was a want of skilled tradesmen in this country compared with the Continent ? — Yes. 3470. Do you attribute that to the inferiority of the mode of teaching by the Science and Art Department ? — The Science and Art Department has done a great deal in the past in developing freehand drawing ; but they have done little in developing mechanical drawing, and it is mechanical drawing in which our workmen are so deficient. For in- . stance, there is a class of mechanical drawing established lately in the University of Edinburgh ; but before that there was no adequate mechanical drawing taught in Edinburgh at all, and the working men could not get access to good mechanical drawing. They get a sort of mechanical drawing at the Royal Institution, but not on a good system. 3471. Is there any provision for that in the continental schools ? — Yes ; in almost all the evening schools for the artisans, mechanical drawing is paid great attention to ; and in most towns I visited there were evening schools for mechanical drawing, physics, and chemistry, for the adult artisans, and these subjects were also taught in the day schools. 3472. Would the deficiency you are speaking of be remedied by a better system on the part of the Science and Art Department, or by more general instruction being introduced in the ordinary schools ? — The Science and Art Department simply stimulate the introduction of these subjects into schools. Until the large manufacturing towns understand the im- portance of these questions, and organize good schools like the School of Arts here, which has been always a good school, these subjects will not be properly taught. 3473. Mr. Lancaster. — The difficulty about testing the merit of boys before they come into schools in Edinburgh, might be met by decentral- izing the bursaries, so as to give bursaries to certain groups of schools in the country, where you might have the reports of inspectors and masters to guide you f — Yes, I think you could operate with great advantage in the schools of the country by offering bursaries in connection with any upper secondary schools that you form through your endowed schools. 3474. And that would meet the difficulty spoken of before? — To a large extent. 3475. By getting the reports of masters and inspectors as a means of finding out merit irrespective of competitive examinations ? — It would not only do that, but it would take away the idea of educational uniformity, which is very objectionable. 347 6. With reference to the question of gratuitous education, may we assume it to be your opinion that you would not approve of gratuitous elementary education being given as an incident of the position of a parent ? — I think that gratuitous education, except in extreme cases, is an unfortunate thing, and produces bad effects both upon the parents and upon the children. There are some cases of extreme poverty, where, of course, it is necessary ; but I am much inclined to class the inability to pay a penny a week for the elementary education of a child as an act of pauperism as much as inability to buy food. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 295 3477. And that is provided for by statute? — And that is provided for Dr. Lyon by statute. F1 $p ir ' 3478. The reason I said as an incident of the position of a parent is ' this, that I presume you would approve of gratuitous education being given as the result of a child getting a bursary ? — Yes, that is a reward for exertion. 3479. Generally speaking, may we take it for granted that you adhere to the opinions you expressed in your evidence before the Committee of the House of Commons in 18G8, especially as to the state and result of the endowed schools existing in Ediuburgh, as to which you said, ' In my own city of Edinburgh we spend between £50,000 and £60,000 an- nually in endowed schools, which give an ordinary education to 1080 pupils, boys and girls. These endowed schools rarely, if ever, produce a man above mediocrity ; they can point to no distinguished man that I am aware of. They pauperize the middle class in their education'? — Cer- tainly, I quite agree with that. 3480. The Chairman. — You are Principal of the University of Edin- Sir 3481. You have given considerable attention to the hospital system of Scotland? — When I was appointed Principal of the University in 1868, on coming here, I found myself ex officio governor of several of the hospi- tals, namely Donaldson's, Cauvin's, Schaw's, the Orphan Hospital, and the Dollar Academy ; and subsequently, by a provisional Act, I was added to the board of managers of the Bathgate Academy. My connection with hospitals gave me an interest in the subject, and from the educational position which I previously held in Bombay, I was naturally led to notice what was being said in Edinburgh at the time ; and in 1869 I gave par- ticular attention to the question,' and consulted all those who were then thought authorities on the subject ; and finally, I wrote a somewhat slight article in reference to the permissive bill, which was then in existence. 3482. As officially connected with the administration of the hospitals, were you called upon to attend and see something of the practical work- ing of the system ? — Yes, to a considerable extent. I have been in the habit of visiting all the hospitals that I belong to periodically, and at- tending all the meetings of the governors ; and I have been concerned in all the consultations which took place upon the admission of applicants, and in regard to the appointment of masters ; also in the consultations that took place with reference to applications for provisional Acts in the different cases, and the various schemes that were proposed ; and I have been much mixed up with the government of all these different hospitals. 3483. You have expressed your opinion publicly as to the management of these institutions, and their effect upon the pupils and their parents ? — I have, in an article in Recess Studies. 3484. You formed a strong opinion of the importance of some modifi- cation? — Very strong. 3485. Do you think that these defects in the administration can be re- medied without a complete change in the nature of the charities? — Hardly. I think there is an inherent defect in what is called the monastic system under which the hospitals are conducted, by which the charity children are boarded in the different hospitals. 3486. Would you not keep up any foundationers connected with them? — I would, certainly; but they should either be intermixed with other Sir Alexander Grant, examined. burgh? — I am. Alexander Grant, 296 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Sir boarders in the same house, or, what would be a still better plan, they A Grant 6r snou ^ boarded out. n ' 3487. And they should be converted into day schools in fact? — That would be the effect. 3488. Would you state generally what opinion you have formed as to the direction which the changes should take? You are speaking, of course, now with reference to those in the immediate neighbourhood of Edinburgh, of which you have some practical knowledge? — Yes; confin- ing myself to the hospitals in and about Edinburgh, I would say that hospital endowments are always individual institutions, and have been al- ways founded with a separate individual object in view ; and I should think they ought always to be dealt with as individual institutions, and that they can hardly be dealt with in a general way. I am strongly im- pressed with the opinion the more I think of it, that it would greatly shock the public if the hospitals were to be treated in this way, that after say Heriot's, for instance, has expended all that it can reasonably on cer- tain objects which you think legitimate for it, and there remain surplus funds to the amount of, say, £10,000, and the same with reference to Donaldson's Hospital, these surplus funds should be taken and put to- gether, and treated as a general educational fund to be applied to Scot- land. I should be opposed to that ; and I should expect that probably the Commission would ultimately come to treat every endowment on its own individual merits. 3489. To apply that to the case of Donaldson's Hospital, what modifications in the institution would you think advisable ? — I have been far from arriving at any definite scheme to propose for the separate hos- pitals; but my idea is, that hospitals should be treated as individual institutions founded for a locality, and that as much as possible the funds belonging to these hospitals should be used within that locality, and with an individual character, commemorating the name of the founder, but under certain limitations of principle. Among these limitations of prin- ciple there would of course be the principle that you must not have useless duplicates for the same object, and other principles which Mr. Forster laid down in introducing his Endowed Schools Commission. To go a little further, I would say that one of the principles which is of the essence of the hospital idea, is that the object of hospitals is the raising of the children of the decayed classes, and restoring them to the former posi- tion in society of their parents, or raising them above that. That is the principle I would apply to such an institution as Donaldson's. Looking at it, we find that there is a primary school which is limited by the ages of seven and fourteen, so that the children can never really be advanced to anything like education of an elevating character, which would give these children a chance in life. We find the hospital is founded in the most general terms, to aid poor boys or poor children ; and the governors, acting on its very wide terms, took it upon themselves to introduce deaf and dumb children as a feature which they gave the hospital, entirely on their own motion, and without any tendency in that direction in the will of the founder. I for one thought that this had been a somewhat inju- dicious application of the funds, because it appears that there is a good deal of provision for deaf and dumb children supported by the rates in different parts of Scotland ; and it is not very easy to find a number of children to fill up the ranks of the deaf and dumb in Donaldson's Hos- pital. I found that the governors relaxed the poverty clause in favour of the deaf and dumb children, in order to get enough of them to fill up their ranks. I should have thought that this would have required an entire remodelling and a total change. I should have thought that the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 297 funds of Donaldson should be brought back to what I would conceive to be their legitimate purpose, namely, making it an institution of such a kind as would assist the children of the decayed classes to rise in society. There are various ways in which this may be done. Of course the first of these is secondary education, in the shape of classical education. Now I would say that this is amply provided for in Edinburgh already by the High School, the Fettes College, and the Merchant Company's schools ; and that though it might be possible to provide certain scholarships out of Donaldson's funds for sending children to the High School, it would be a great mistake if a high classical school were to be created out of Don- aldson's funds. Then we come to the other institutions of the kind that are possible ; and having as the object in view something that shall give great assistance to the children of the decayed classes to rise in the world, it is obvious that there are at least two or three kinds of institutions which do not exist in Edinburgh, and which would be a great advantage to have founded. One of these has been already suggested, namely, an improved technical school, giving such advantages in technical education as to give those brought under the instruction a considerable chance of promotion in life. Another object of a collateral kind would be a large trades school in which, after the model of those existing in France and elsewhere, there would be instruction qualifying for the mercantile profession in a higher kind of way, so as to give those who are to follow commerce a consider- able chance of prosperity in life. And a third kind of institution which I would mention, is a great training school for schoolmasters. I look upon that as appropriate to an hospital foundation, not from its educational importance as part of the system of public instruction in Scotland, but because it would give a scope to the child of a poor person, or one of the decayed classes, to get a professional education which would be of great value to him in after life. 3490. I understand that your principal reason for wishing to apply the funds of Donaldson's Hospital to one or other of these objects is, that you consider there is already a sufficient provision for the children of decayed families in Edinburgh and the neighbourhood? — No, I have not made myself clear on that point. What I meant was this, that all hospital funds, as a general principle, ought to be applied with the general object of raising the children of the decayed classes, but that we do not require to do that in the shape of founding a new classical school. There are different ways in which the object could be promoted. One is a classical school, but that already exists in Edinburgh. You would then be met by Mr. Forster's principle, that there never should be duplicates in the same neighbourhood ; and classical education being provided partly by the High School and partly by the Merchant Company's schools, I would say that that object is accom- plished, and we must assist the children of decayed classes in other ways out of Donaldson's funds. I think we should therefore create out of those funds something in the shape of technical education, or high trade edu- cation ; or, if you like, education in the art of teaching, which would be in fact a great Normal School. 3491. But still for the children of poor parents? — Primarily so. I think that, with reference to all institutions of this kind, the same custom should be adopted which has long existed at Eton and Winchester, and other places, and which has been followed at the Fettes College, — that there should be a nucleus of foundationers ; but that the public should always be allowed, on payment of fees, to benefit by the instruction given in those schools. 3492. And that these foundationers should be selected on evidence of the distress of their parents? — Partly so, and partly by merit, 298 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Sir 3493. You think a certain proportion should always be selected by Al Granf 6r mer ^ — ^ think the plan adopted at Fettes College a good one. The ' trustees make a list of applicants who are eligible on the ground of poverty, and then the foundationers are selected from these by com- petition. 3494. With reference to Donaldson's Hospital, do you consider it a departure from the intention of the founder, or a strained interpretation of his intentions, to apply the money to the deaf and dumb ? — I think the intentions of the founder were exceedingly vague, as they are in almost all the foundations of hospitals connected with Edinburgh. The fact is, that George Heriot, who himself had not a very definite idea of what he was doing, merely proposed to found an imitation of Christ's Hospital in London, and to do this for the ornament and public weal of his mother city of Edinburgh. When he had done this, and a beautiful building was set up in his name, that stimulated many others to follow his example ; and I believe George Watson followed his example in the shape of merely ap- pointing that an hospital in imitation of George Heriot's should be founded. John Watson left his money to his trustees to be applied to some public purpose ; and Donaldson left his money for the education and bringing up o# poor boys or poor children, or words to that effect. Whether it is a departure from or a straining of the terms of the Act is a legal question perhaps, but I think that any of the schemes which would be desirable from the point of view of general hospital administration — any scheme that could be devised from that point of view — would be as near the will of the founder as tins turning of his school into a deaf and dumb asylum. 3495. But in these different cases you would in so far depart from the will of the founder, that you would allow a certain number of founda- tioners to be appointed by selection by the governors, whether as the children of poor parents, or as children of decayed persons in Edinburgh. You would leave that part of the institution untouched, but you would in- troduce the principle of competition for a certain number ? — I think so. 3496. And in all cases would you insist on their being connected with day schools ? — In all cases I would require that they should not be boarded in the institutions, such as exist at present, but that they should be boarded in the town, and as much as possible intermixed with the children of various classes, who would be attracted to the institution by the educational advantages of it, as in the case of the Merchant Company's schools. 3497. You would not interfere with funds expressly devoted to the bringing up of orphans ? — Except that I would board the orphans out. 3498. Have you any remark to make on Cauvin's or Schaw's Hospital ? — They are both very small institutions. I have been struck in both of them by the depressed and spiritless appearance of the boys. In regard to Cauvin's, I have noticed that the institution affords the means every now and then of relieving cases of very great distress, where the widows and families of schoolmasters or French teachers, or people of that sort, are plunged into great distress ; but whenever I have been able to see a child in that unfortunate position being admitted to the benefits of the hospi- tal, it has always occurred to me what a very questionable boon we were conferring on that child. He is taken in from 7 to 14, and then turned out a very spiritless creature. 3499. Could such small institutions not be connected with some larger schools or colleges °? — With reference to Schaw's, we proposed that the children should be all boarded out, and the school turned into a day school for the benefit of the neighbourhood, and that a certain number of MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 299 exhibitions should be obtained out of the savings which would send on sir the best boys to the higher schools. This was under the Permissive Act. Alexander 3500. Was it a scheme to provide for the immediate neighbourhood, raDt and for maintaining the foundationers out of the funds of the hospital by boarding them out? — Yes. We proposed also to do away with the preference to the name of Schaw. At present the hospital seems to act as a sort of menagerie for people of the name of Schaw. They are selected with some difficulty out of the northern counties ; and they are generally of the pauper class, and not what I would call belonging to the decayed class. 3501. That scheme was not approved ? — No. 3502. Were any special reasons given for that ? — I think almost the same reason was given to Schaw's as to Heriot's, namely, that it was beyond the powers. 3503. There was no special objection to the scheme ? — There was no remark made on it, except that it was beyond the powers conferred by the Act. 3504. Was any proposal made with reference to Cauvin's Hospital ? — The governors of Cauvin's are very conservative, and no attempt has been made to take advantage of the Permissive Act, or in any way to change the present application of the funds. 3505. It is a small institution like the other? — It is. 3506. Where is Schaw's Hospital? — At Prestonpans. 3507. Is Cauvin's Hospital also out of Edinburgh? — Yes. It is at Duddingston. 3508. Could it be made available for the wants of that neighbourhood ? — The governors having refused to take into consideration any change whatever, the inquiries were not made at Duddingston which were made at Tranent and Prestonpans. 3509. The Dollar Institution is not an hospital ? — No, it is not. There are no boarders whatever. A sum of money was left by a citizen of Dollar, who went abroad and made a great deal of money, and he left a largish sum to the poor of the parish. The trustees, among whom Sheriff Tait was a leading member, succeeded in getting an Act of Parliament, empowering them to apply this money for educational purposes ; and accordingly a school has been established there, which is a very great boon to the neighbourhood. 3510. Have you any suggestion to make with reference to any altera- tion in its system of management ? — The great evil perhaps of the school, is that it is governed by what is called the ' Dollar Parliament,' which is a board of 30 trustees, who meet in a large room and make long speeches ; and being many of them not qualified to judge about educational matters, they constantly endanger the well-being of the institution by their resolutions. 3511. Do they interfere with the management of the school? — They try to interfere very much with the management. For instance, a case in point was this : that the mathematical master was dismissed for some cause or other. As my evidence may be published, I will not say what the cause was ; but having been dismissed by the trustees, he was after- wards elected by the people of Dollar to be one of the governors, and Ik; has been a thorn in the sides of the governors ever since. 3512. Are the governors despotic? — Quite. But some of them do all they can to give the master independent authority. 3513. Then the best change would be to alter the constitution of the trust, and give more authority to the master ? — Yes. 3514. Have you any remarks to make on the Bathgate Academy ? — It BOO ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Sir is a very young institution. It has got a Provisional Order, and is doing irant 6r We ^ aS fa1 ' aS * Can See * — ' 3515. Have you given attention to the subject of presentation bursaries ? — I have given that subject general attention. • 3516. Have you done so specially with reference to the University, or with reference to its operation on schools? — There are a great many bursaries for the purpose of sending boys to the different universities. 3517. From particular schools ? — No, they generally belong to different localities,*and are in the hands of private families. These bursaries having been founded by some benevolent man, he bequeaths the patronage of them, and it descends in his own family very commonly. In Aberdeen a very considerable step has been taken, by placing the bursaries in the hands of the University, and making them competitive. The Senatus Academicus of Edinburgh is at this moment preparing to submit to the Commission a statement with reference to all the bursaries which they have anything to do with, and they will be able to show, that if we had merely the control over the different bursaries which are at present in the hands of private patrons, and which are greatly wasted, the University would be placed in a very different position in point of educational usefulness. A committee of the Senatus, three years ago, drew up a statement which they sent round to the patrons of different bursaries connected with the University, suggesting that these patrons should abandon their patronage, and should place these bursaries in the gift of the University, to be disposed of by competition among the best of the boys. The answers to the circular were sometimes very peculiar. Some patrons very handsomely at once did what was asked, and relinquished their patronage ; others said that they scrupled to do so, because by so doing they might be robbing the poor but not gifted boy, for the sake of advancing a boy who was clever, and therefore did not want so much assist- ance. And in conversation it was put to me in this way : What is to become of the stupid people in the world, if you take away all the good things for the clever people ? — One curious case occurred. A gentleman who was patron of a bursary called on me : his bursary was only £6 a year, and he said he had not the. east objection to placing this in the hands of the University for their administration ; but he said, ' Supposing my son turns out a blockhead, I might as well have this bursary for him.' I said that of course he would reserve the right of recalling it at any time he liked. 3518. You have said that the University would be in a very different position if these bursaries were generally open to competition? — If the University was able to say every year, We have 30 or 40 bursaries open to competition, of £15 or £20 a year each, and there will be an examination for them in the beginning of October, that would cause great interest in all the schools throughout the country. Boys would come up in large numbers to compete, and we should not only get the elite of the country in this way, but we should stimulate the schools and put them in a closer relation to us, and put them more in the way of preparing boys for a university education ; and we should be spared having the inferior boys who are often selected by patrons, and sent up without much prospect of doing well. 3519. |Would you say that those that come up by selection keep down the standard of your teaching ? Is it an evil that amounts to an injury to the standard of teaching in the classes? — It works together with several other things in keeping down the standard. I think this is one of the causes, together with the unsatisfactory state of the secondary schools in Scotland, which keeps down the standard of the University. 3520. Is it not the case that presentations to scholarships have been MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 301 very generally abolished in the English universities? — I think so, under the Commission ; but there it more took the form, not of taking the scholarships away from private patrons, but of throwing open scholarships that had been before confined to particular localities ; — which is two steps from our present position. We don't ask the bursaries to be delocalized, but merely that the universities shall choose the best boy) in the neigh- bourhood. 3521. Mr. Ramsay. — Did you state that the presentation bursaries in Aberdeen had been transferred to the University ? — Not entirely, but there are a great many more bursaries in the hands of the University there in proportion. 3522. But so far as they were transferred, were they ^transferred with the consent of those in whom the patronage had been previously vested ? — I cannot answer that. 3523. The Chairman. — You said there were other causes which keep down the standard of education in the University of Edinburgh, and among others the state of secondary instruction in Scotland. Would you state the points in which you think it defective ? — I think that Scotland might be described as a country that has a good system of primary instruction and a good university system, but there is a totally defective apparatus of secondary education to connect the primary instruction with the university instruction. This is shown in a number of ways. It comes before me most in connection with the University, and is shown in the first place by the number of students who come up possessing only a rudimen- tary knowledge of classics and mathematics, and by the very small number who are able to pass what is called the examination for a three years' curriculum. Those who can pass a decent examination in Latin, Greek, and mathematics are allowed to take their degree in three years instead of four; while on an average there have not been perhaps above 10 or 12 stu- dents ever passing that examination, until the present year, when as many as 80 or 83 came up for the examination, and about one half of them passed it. Therefore there is no doubt that, with reference to the students coming to Edinburgh University, there has been of late an improvement in the secondary schools. I should think you would find the secondary schools connected with the other universities in Scotland much more deficient than those connected with the University of Edinburgh, — because it is in close connection with the Academy and the High School, two of the best schools in Scotland, and adequate secondary schools in every sense of the word. The other universities of Scotland have no such schools in connection with them. But even with us the deficiency of other good secondary schools is very apparent. A large number of students come to us quite advanced in life, — men of 25, far beyond the normal age for entering the University ; and the great majority come quite unable to pass a very low standard of examination in Latin, Greek, and mathematics. 3524. Are these students who come from schools in burghs as well as from parochial schools ? — Quite so ; judging from my University experience, there would seem to be but little difference between the high schools and the parochial schools. In fact, the difference is certainly ill defined, and seems to be hardly perceptible in its results on the pupil, speaking very generally, and allowing that of course there are exceptions where the burgh schools are of a high class. 3525. The parochial schools practically supply a very considerable proportion of pupils to the universities? — Very considerable; and in other faculties besides the Arts faculty, a larger proportion than to the Arts faculty. For instance, as a general rule, students who come with 302 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. the view of being law clerks, and ultimately writers to the Signet, almost invariably come straight from the parish school. 3526. Mr. Ramsay. — Have you acquired the information necessary to enable you to state what proportion of the students coming up for examination come from the parish or common schools ? — Do you refer to the three years' curriculum ? 3527. Yes? — I can send you that information. 3528. The Chairman. — Is there an entrance examination in the Uni- versity? — No, there is no entrance examination as yet. The argument against that has always been that the schools are not fit for it. The low state of the secondary schools of the country prevents the universities from introducing an entrance examination without inflicting a great hard- ship on the boys in many parts of the country. 3529. In your opinion, there could be no better application of any hospital funds that might be available for general purposes, than in improving that secondary education ? — Certainly. 3530. And at the same time encouraging boys to rise to the higher schools by competitive bursaries, so as to throw open the advantages to all classes ? — Yes. 3531. Have you any suggestions to make with reference to technical instruction, or the want of it ? — I have no doubt it is very much wanted. I quite agree with the pamphlet of Mr. Cousin on the subject, in which he shows what a great advantage it would be. I have no doubt that it would be a great advantage in Edinburgh. It is a feature that is pecu- liarly wanted in the educational system of Edinburgh itself. With regard to the application of hospital endowments towards secondary instruction, I think from my point of view that would be limited of course by my ideas of principle. For instance, I think the Edinburgh hospital funds should not be applied to the founding of any additional secondary schools in and about Edinburgh, because probably you will find that there are enough secondary schools in and about Edinburgh ; and unless you delocalized the hospital funds, you could not use them to found secondary schools elsewhere ; but I think it would be always open to have a certain amount of exhibitions to be competed for by boys from all parts of the country, bringing up boys to secondary schools in Edinburgh itself. 3532. You would receive a very large number of exhibitioners from different parts of the country. You don't think there would be any limit as to the number of competition bursaries that might be connected with the University ? — I think we first want exhibitions to connect the parish schools with the secondary schools, and after that bursaries to connect the secondary schools with the University ; but I should be more inclined to think that the former should be the primary object. 3533. There are a certain number of bursaries connected with Heriot's Hospital for sending boys to the University ? — Yes ; but we have hardly any Heriot boys in the University. Not one came to us last year, for instance. 3534. Mr. Ramsay. — How is that? — I cannot tell. I suppose the boys prefer going into trade or business. 3535. The Chairman. — Is there any other suggestion you have to make with reference to the subject of our inquiry ? — You asked me before as to the desirability of technical instruction being given. I think it would be an excellent thing that a great technical school should be founded in Edinburgh ; but with reference to the question whether technical instruc- tion should be separated from classical instruction in the country schools, I am inclined to think that the burgh schools should be improved by the adding to them of what is called a modern side. It would be impossible MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 303 to aim at a separate technical school in most burghs except Edinburgh Sir 3536. Do I understand you to express an opinion in favour of the establishment of a Training College? — That was one of the objects which I thought might be a very useful feature in any changes that were made in the hospitals of Edinburgh. 3537. Training for teachers of middle class schools or elementary schools? — For different grades of teachers. In fact, a great Normal School should be founded here. 3538. You think that teaching would be better conveyed in a separate establishment than in connection with an existing institution ? — Such a college would at once be put into connection with several local schools. 3539. Distinct from the University? — Quite, so far as instruction in the art of teaching goes ; but pupils in a normal college might at the same time be attending classes of general education in the University. 3540. Mr. Lancaster. — We could get information, I suppose, from some university record as to the Herioters who come to join the faculty of Arts ?— Yes. 3541. Are we to understand that, with regard to the hospitals, you approve of keeping up the local restrictions in the founder's will ? — I am for keeping the whole thing to Edinburgh ; and in every case, I think you might find employment necessary and proper for endowments in the places where they have been made. 3542. I understood that you were for keeping all the schools such as you have suggested to be founded in Edinburgh; but do you carry it this length, that you would extend the benefits to foundationers only in accordance with the local restrictions imposed by the founder? — I ex- pressed a general view in my article in Recess Studies, to the effect that the benefits of the foundation should always be obtained by a principle of selection in the primary schools in Edinburgh itself, and I would not give Edinburgh burgesses any further advantages than that. 3543. Would those resident in Edinburgh, or Edinburgh burgesses, have a preference with reference to primary schools ? — They would only have a preference with reference to primary schools if living on the spot, and therefore more able to send their children to compete. 3544. But you would not restrict the benefits of the foundation to children born in Edinburgh? — No, certainly not. 3545. Still less, I presume, would you restrict it to the children of ministers ? — Certainly not. 3546. Would you give us some idea of the distinction between the technical school and the trade school you spoke of ? — I must again refer to my article, in which that is detailed. One is more mathematical and scientific ; the other includes things like bookkeeping, modern languages, and geography. 3547. What sort of age would you contemplate pupils to be entered at ? — I would say at a hazard, 14 to 18. 3548. You have said to the Chairman that you would not thence anticipate any evil in the way of dwarfing the University ? — Not the least ; certainly not. 3549. With regard to the election of foundationers, would you have foundationers in these schools also, as well as in the primary schools ? — The foundationers, chosen on the system which I have before indicated, might continue to be maintained while in attendance at the trade or tech- nical school, if they showed sufficient aptitude to profit by the instruction. I would also have scholarships open to non-foundationers. 3550. And in the election to the scholarships, am I right in apprehend- and Glasgow. Alexander Grant. 304 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. ing that you would give a preference to poverty, or to the children of decayed parents ? — No. I would leave the thing to the children of de- cayed parents to take it if they could ; but I would not give them any preference. 3551. Nor to poverty? — Certainly not. The object of scholarships of all kinds is to pick up the clever children out of the poor and decayed, and to leave the others to follow professions that don't require intellect. 3552. In the nomination of pupils to the primary schools, would you give any preference to poverty ? — I think not ; barring, of course, such poverty as is now entitled under the Education Act to apply for edu- cational relief from the parish authorities. 3553. And therefore the only preference that would remain would be the advantage that a person would derive from being resident in Edin- burgh, and so able to send his children to school ? — Yes. 3554. I think you said that Edinburgh was sufficiently provided with secondary schools just now ? — I think so ; that is, in the shape of classical schools. 3555. And assuming that this is so, you think it would be carrying out the spirit of the founders' wills to delocalize a certain amount of bursaries in connection with secondary schools in Edinburgh? — So long- as you bring the children up to Edinburgh. 3556. I presume you would give these bursaries rather to schools or groups of schools throughout the country, than to certain counties ? — I would open them to the country in general, to the effect that on such a day there will be an examination for exhibitions, and papers will be sent down to any respectable people who will undertake to conduct the ex- amination ; and I would have the examination everywhere. 3557. On that system, would you have boys who had attended particu- lar schools competing for these bursaries, or boys in particular localities, or would it be that boys might come up for examination from anywhere ? — I should have boys that might come up for examination from any- where, under certain restrictions of age probably. 3558. And you would have certain centres where the examination would take place? — Yes. 3559. Mr. Sella?: — Limited to Scotland ? — Yes. 3560. Why? — Because it is wanted in Scotland, and because it would have the effect of bringing up to the metropolis the elite of the intellect of Scotland. 3561. Mr. Lancaster. — And you think that particular thing is very much wanted in Scotland ? — It is very much wanted. 3562. Am I right in thinking that you intended, in answer to a question from the Chairman, to imply that the collegers at Eton are now elected with any reference to poverty ? — What I think I said was, that at Eton and Winchester there had been always a system of having a nucleus of foundationers, and adding to them oppidans, as they are called, admitted on the payment of fees, and not from any other claim. 3563. You did not intend to say that the collegers are now elected on the ground of poverty ? — No, I did not intend to say that ; but certainly at Fettes College the foundationers are elected from considerations of poverty. 3564. Mr. Sellar. — In whose hands is the management of Donaldson's Hospital ? — There are certain trustees. Most of them are ex officio, and a few are elected, I think. 3565. Who are the most active managers? — I think Dr. Paul, Dr. Stevenson of St. George's, Mr. Davidson, and Mr. Cook, writer to the Signet. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 305 3566. Do they limit the selection of pupils to the names of Donaldson Sir and Marshall, in accordance with the testator's will? — I think there is a A q^JJJ preference given in these cases. _1_ 3567. Both with reference to the hearing pupils and the deaf and dumb pupils'? — They take almost every deaf and dumb child that offers, because they are not easy to get. 3568. Do they take them whether they are poor or whether they are rich? — They seem to me to relax the stringency of their rule about making poverty a great point with reference to these deaf and dumb children, be- cause they argue that the education of deaf mutes is a more expensive t hing than common primary education for an ordinary child, and therefore that they are entitled to take children in rather better circumstances. 3569. Do the hearing pupils pass any entrance examination? — I think they pass an entrance examination, but that is after they are admitted. There is no educational qualification whatever. 3570. How are they admitted ? — They are admitted by the votes of the governors on the day of election, a good deal of interest having been made with particular governors. Some influential person writes to somebody. There is a good deal of that, and there is also a fair enough consideration of the clamancy of the case. They are not restricted to Scotland. They take children from Liverpool and London sometimes. 3571. I see that the governors limit the selection of the teachers by resolution to members of the Established Church. Do you find that that limitation is prejudicial, and prevents you from getting the best teachers? — I hardly think so, because the requirements are too small. We don't require a very high class of teachers there. 3572. You get them as well from the Established Church as from the other churches ? — I think so. The head master or resident governor is the only man who gets a decent salary, and we have a very good man, indeed, in the present man. He has capacities for much more than his present position. 3573. Would you consider it desirable that that limitation should be kept up ? — I don't see any reason for it whatever. 3574. Are the pupils required to go to the Established Church? — I cannnot say with certainty. They have sittings in West Coates Church, and I should think that they go there en masse. 3575. If there was sufficient provision existing in Edinburgh for diffe- rent classes of elementary schools, trade schools, technical schools, and the secondary schools, do you see any objection to using this as an insti- tution for the deaf and dumb ? — If you cannot find anything else to do with the money, certainly not. 3576. Would you use these hospital funds for the relief of the rates in Edinburgh? — No. That is one of the principles that I would hold as limiting all arrangements about the application of surplus hospital funds, that they must never be used to relieve rates. 3577. Two years ago Heriot's Hospital produced a scheme for a Pro- visional Order after the Merchant Company produced theirs ? — Yes. 3578. That scheme was sent to you for consideration. Did you ap- prove of it? — No, I did not in the least. 3579. They state in their report that the scheme was submitted to the Principal of the University and some others, and that it had met with a general approval. Would you endorse that or repudiate it ? — I think that 1 . was civil to them at first; but on longer and further consideration of the scheme I saw how completely it was a mere repetition of the Merchant Company's scheme, and therefore uncalled for. 3580. Mr. Lancaster. — When you say that relieving from rates is not u 306 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. a right mode of appropriating hospital funds, you include poor-rates, I suppose ; that is to say, supposing it could be shown that the working of any hospital system was practically to relieve the poor-rates, you would think that objectionable? — I would, certainly. I made the remark two years ago to Bailie Tawse, a governor of Heriot's Hospital, and he told me then that it was a plan of the Heriot governors greatly to extend the primary schools. I then said to him that it was not George Heriot's object to save the pockets of men like Bailie Tawse, living in the Royal Terrace, but that the object was to give the city of Edinburgh something which it would not have had but for his endowment. I may be allowed to state one thing to the Commission with reference to the great misrepre- sentations which I have been exposed to in relation to Heriot's Hospital. I have been repeatedly accused of wishing to alienate the funds of Heriot's Hospital to the purposes of the University; but I beg distinctly to disavow this, because it is not at all my opinion that the funds of Heriot's Hospi- tal, or of any other hospital in Edinburgh, could with propriety be applied to university purposes. I think there are much more natural applications of them that you could find ; but what I did propose to the governors of Heriot's Hospital was this, that, supposing they should be sufficiently en- lightened to board out all their pupils, I then said, You will have a grand building there of which you might make a most excellent use, quite in con- formity with the spirit of Heriot's foundation, if you would set it aside as a residence hall for poor students coming to the University ; and I told them that the hall would be entirely under their control, and that it would only cost them £2000 or £3000 a-year at the outside, paying for super- intendence and servants, and that they could give poor students gratis lodging there, and a cheap table, supervision and society, and save them the necessity of living in miserable lodgings about the town. It was partly from a misrepresentation of this suggestion that I have been considered as wishing to seize upon the Heriot funds for the good of the University. 3581. Mr. Ramsay. — Would you think it necessary to abrogate the present trusts under which Heriot's, Donaldson's, and other funds are now administered, for the purpose of carrying out the changes which you re- commend? — I should think that a new governing body would have to be constituted for every hospital. 3582. When you state that you deem it an improper application of the funds to apply them for the support of primary schools, which, in fact, relieve the pockets of the ratepayers under the present law, is it your opinion that there was no law at the time that George Heriot made his will, for establishing schools in Scotland? My object is to ascertain whether you would in all circumstances think it wrong to allow the funds of individuals to be applied so as to relieve the pockets of the ratepayers, whether of poor-rates or of school-rates ? — If a man chooses to leave his money for the express purpose of relieving the ratepayers, I think he is perfectly entitled to do so. But if a man has left a sum of money to a community, such as Edinburgh, for the express purpose of giving them a benefit which no other community can have, I think it is unjustifiable to take that money, and merely save the town from paying certain taxes, without giving them anything additional that other towns have not got. 3583. The Chairman. — You said that you did not, in your views re- garding Heriot's Hospital, wish an application of its funds to the Univer- sity. You don't mean that you wish to get rid of those bursaries which are already applied to the University from those funds ? — No. 3584. Nor to any addition to their number, if it is thought equitable? — Certainly not. What people are fancying about me, owing to the mis- MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 307 representations that have been made, is that I want to get the Heriot Sir funds to add to the professors' salaries, and things of that sort. A Gran 3585. You would not object to an additional number of bursaries or scholarships ? — Certainly not. Adjourned. MONDAY, January 20, 1873. PRESENT Sir Edward Colebrooke, Bart., Chairman. The Earl of Rosebery. Sir William Stirling-Maxwell. John Ramsay, Esq. Henry H. Lancaster, Esq. A. C. Sellar, Esq. William Jolly, Esq., examined. 3586. The Chairman. — You are at present one of the Inspectors of William Schools ?— Yes. Joll y, *H 3587. You were formerly master of George Watson's Hospital in Edinburgh ? — Yes. 3588. And how long have you been an Inspector? — For four years. 3589. When were you master of George Watson's Hospital ? — Imme- diately before the recent changes. I was a good deal concerned with these changes. I was in the confidence of the governors at that time, and entered into the subject pretty fully. 3590. IJave you formed a strong and decided opinion that these changes were required in the institution ? — A most decided opinion. 3591. Have you had experience with reference to any other hospitals besides George Watson's ? — I taught in George Watson's, and was resi- dent in it for two years. I taught there for six years, and then studied the subject very fully, and conversed on it with all sorts of persons. I was acquainted with most of the governors of the other hospitals of Edin- burgh, and I have conversed on the subject with them. At the time of the recent changes, I gave the matter a great deal of special thought, and came to very decided conclusions. My opinion is, that the hospital system is an evil, which ought to be remedied. 3592. What is your opinion on that subject? — The evils of the hospital system I would divide into three classes — educational, in- tellectual, and moral. The educational evils are these: The want of emulation — the sort of inertness of mind and work and aspiration that the system produces. The hospital system affords a contracted and unnatural life, resulting, first, in a limited and contracted knowledge of things. The boys feel that themselves; and a teacher feels it very much. If you ask the boys, for instance, to write you a short account of anything, you have to supply all the information. They are not like boys at common schools, who have out-door experience and the talk of their parents to give them a wider knowledge of things ; but there is a dearth of knowledge among the boys, and they have to appeal to the 308 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. William teacher for it. We had, in Watson's Hospital, an ont-door system which oil y, E sq. wag ^ £ rg {. e fi or t m the direction of trying to raise the style of the hospital ; and the contrast between the ont-door and the in-door boys was very marked : so much so, as to draw the attention of the in-door boys themselves. I have often told them to look at their exercises compared with some other boy's ; and the reply was, ' Oh ! he is an out-door boy.' I had the confidence of the boys, and I did a good deal to ameliorate their condition. I introduced readings, a manuscript magazine, theatricals, and various other things. I took them out walks, and entered into their life and amusements, and tried to raise the tone of the lads, and to lessen the evils I saw in their life. Again, they have no self-reliance. They are also separated from the rest of the world, which has a tendency to produce an antagonistic feeling towards the rest of the world. They look on themselves as standing apart. They know that they are hospital boys : they have lived apart, and looked at the world from without ; and when they come into the world, they feel that they don't know it as they ought to do. They feel that they are looked on by the outside world as having been educated peculiarly, though this was more the case ten or twenty years ago than it is now ; and that produces a kind of antithetic relation between them and the outer world. There is also a contracted and one-sided education of the faculties — intellectual, emo- tional, and moral. The intellectual evils are dulness in perception and understanding, and a peculiar intellectual inertness and heaviness. Every one teaching in an hospital feels this very much. You cannot get the boys to work hard, though you appeal to them ; and you have to put more energy into the teaching of an hospital class than any other. You have to waste yourself to inspire them with vis, and you get very little return. You have to work much harder to produce any result than with another set of boys. This intellectual dulness also manifests itself in a difficulty of interesting them, and rousing them to mental effort. It also exhibits itself in a lower power of attention, and a less strength of memory, than in the case of out-door boys. On revisal, you are astonished how little they have retained. Intellectual power is, also, smaller than it would be on another system ; and intellectual eminence in hospital boys is very rare. The system also produces a want of intellec- tual self-reliance, and self-sustained intellectual effort. But the moral evils are, I think, the greatest, and demand most attention. Under this head, one chief characteristic in hospital boys is their untruthfulness in word, and deceptiveness in action. If they think you don't know a certain thing they have done, they will speak to you without moving an eye or exhibiting the slightest sign ; and they will brave it out, so that you cannot guess by their appearance that they are telling a decided falsehood. Another characteristic is selfishness. This is one of the great evils produced by the system. It cannot but produce intense selfishness. The feeling is, 'I am as good as you ; my father has as much right to have his children educated here as yours has : there is no reason why I should deny myself for you ; you are not my brother, or sister, or relative.' Untruthfulness, selfishness, and the want of self-denial, are the chief moral evils of the hospital system. Another effect is the non-develop- ment of their emotional nature ; their domestic feelings, and even love of their fellows, are either not elicited, or are more or less dulled. Their moral habits are bad — bad in ways that one would require to speak about with reserve. This immorality occurs not only in hospitals, but more or less in all gatherings of boys ; and it was brought out by the English Commission. I have myself witnessed the immorality which prevails. 3593. Did you give evidence before the English Commission ? — I did MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 309 not. The same thing holds good in regard to female hospitals. I William myself know instances of it. JJly, E^q. 3594. The Earl of Rosebery. — But you cannot directly attribute that to the hospital system? — It exists in all gatherings of boys, and the hospital system gives rise to such gatherings. From the lower moral tone and from the stronger influence of evil example in the hospitals, it is perhaps worse in them than anywhere else. — Another feature that I would mention is, their oppression of each other, which exhibits itself in many ways. Of course, the fagging system exists in these hospitals, though not under that name. The name for it in Heriot's Hospital was most expressive, — the 4 garrin' law,' — from the old Scotch verb to gar, to force one to do a thing against his will. This exhibits itself in many ways. For instance, if one boy does better in his class than another boy, and gets above him, and if that other boy is a strong fellow, with bad morale, I have known him give his successful companion a severe thrashing. This oppression is one active cause of the dead level of intelligence, tone, and work which the hospital system produces. 3595. Mr. Sellar. — Is that ' garrin' law ' recognised by the governors or masters ? — Oh no. 3596. The stronger or older boys have no recognised authority over the younger ones ? — No. That all comes under what I would call the tradi- tional moral code of the hospital. Another point is the influence of evil example, which, in such gatherings of boys of a lower moral tone, is of the intensest kind. Again, there is a dulness of the moral faculties. When a boy is caught in a fault, you feel that you address a moral stone wall. The moral sense seems in too many cases almost gone. Again, the restraint of the system tends to after reaction. Finally, there is in hospitals a peculiar traditional morality and an imperfect moral code, unknown to the governors, which regulates the boys, the result of the unnatural close system. 3597. The Chairman. — Do you consider that these evils cannot be re- medied without the hospitals being connected with day-schools? — I would say, regarding these evils, that they are general effects of the hospital system. There are exceptions, but these exceptions exist in spite of these evil influences. I may add, that I have heard the opinion of men who were once hospital boys, and the opinion of teachers, visitors, and governors of the hospitals ; and they have all condemned the system in the strongest way. 3598. Are you speaking of the opinions of governors of other hospi- tals than George Watson's Hospital? — I happen to know most of them in town. I feel so strongly on that subject from experience, that I have, while in the hospital and since, advised persons thinking of sending their boys to the hospital, by no means to do so. Even in the case of widows hard pressed to maintain their families, I have said, 4 If you value your boy's training and moral character, educate him yourself, and don't send him into an hospital ; ' and I have been instrumental in preventing some from being sent there, from my strong and real sense of the evils. In what I have said, I have merely enumerated the salient evils of the system. Want of time prevents my giving the proofs, which my experi- ence of it has furnished. These would be numerous, and, I am sure, convincing. No doubt these evils may be greatly lessened by a good head-master and good teachers, who may do much to raise the moral tone. I know cases where the tone was greatly raised. The educational and intellectual evils belong to the system, and cannot be eradicated. But I should say, that any one who wished to perpetuate the hospital system, after hearing evidence on the subject from those who have 310 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. William personally seen its evils, does not know what true education is, and would oi ly, E sq. sacr jfi ce a boy's character to bodily comfort and mere success in life. 3599. What remedies would you suggest ? — I beg to state the principles on which I think hospital reform should be based, because the subject is important, and because Anderson's Hospital in Elgin is one that I have been interested in, as it is in my district. I would say — 1st, That, under any system, the funds of the hospital should be preserved and increased by judicious management ; the principal should in no instance be touched. 2d, The full rights of all those entitled to them by the will of the founder should, as far as possible, be pre- served, in respect of board and maintenance, education in school and, in some cases, in college, and provision on entering life. 3d, To prevent the waste of the past, — the over-expenditure per head, — the general com- munity should, as far as possible, participate in the money spent, while old rights are preserved. Instead of educating one boy for £60, educate twenty or thirty boys for the money. 4th, Any new system proposed should, as far as possible, eradicate the evils of hospital life and train- ing, and give a broader and more natural education for after life. 5th, Such reform of the hospital system should be general over the country, because the evils are inherent in the system itself, and because more good could be done with the money spent, while old rights are preserved, by a wider and more natural system. These are the principles which I think should regulate hospital reform. In view of these, it follows that the monastic system — the pure hospital system — should be abolished every- where. Board and maintenance should be provided at home, or with relatives, or with others carefully selected by the governors ; while full supervision should continue to be exercised over them by the hospital authorities. A general system of education with the general public, amidst all the influences of good school life, should be established, in which the hospital boys would receive education with those of their own and of higher rank. Education with the general public, and, if possible, with those of higher rank, is an important point. Those with special aptitude should, as hitherto, be sent to college. Further, provision should still be made, as heretofore, for the hospital boys on entering life. 3600. Mr. Sellar. — When you say that reform in the hospital system should be general over the country, would you explain what you mean by that ? — If, anywhere, there is an hospital conducted under the old hospital system, with the monastic life of the old hospital system, I should say that it ought at once to be broken up. 3601. Do you mean that all the hospitals in Scotland should be opened up?— Yes. 3602. The Chairman. — And that that should be compulsory, and not permissive % — Quite so. 3603. Mr. Lancaster. — How do you reconcile that with your position that founders' wills should be observed? — That is an objection often made ; but I answer it in this way, that by the scheme I suggest, all existing rights are protected and fully recognised. Moreover, when a will, made two hundred years ago, says that such and such shall be done, it should be remembered that the man who made the will speut his money in the best way then known. This same man, if he lived now, knowing the spirit of the present age and the evils of the hospital system, would almost certainly modify the provisions made by him. 3604. Then I understand that you would approve of modifications being now introduced with regard to the preferences which are laid down in the founders' wills ? — Yes ; but I would be particular on this point. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 311 A founder says, for instance, that certain parishes shall participate Will in the benefit of his endowment. Now, I would still keep that intact. Jo11 ^ If there are in an hospital one hundred persons entitled by the will to the rights of that hospital, I say, whatever changes you make in the hospital system, keep the rights of these persons untouched. 3605. Then you would preserve untouched all the preferences given in founders' wills ? — Yes, while extending the privileges to others. 3606. Local preferences ? — Yes. 3607. Preferences to particular classes of society, such as burghers and freemen ? — Yes, I should say so, with the same qualification. 3608. Preferences to persons of particular names ? — I should say so ; but this point of names I have not given special attention to. It might and does lead to abuses in certain cases, of which I have known instances. Regarding local endowments, my opinion is this : certain moneys, for example, were left for the Dick Bequest counties, and the results of these have been of the very best kind. They have raised the education in that part of the country wonderfully, and they form a standing proof of the results on education of better payment to teachers. If the Dick Bequest were made general over the country, the higher style of payment would not exist. This would lessen the desire of those that have money, to leave it in that way, because it would be absorbed by the country generally. 3609. Would not your first objection disappear, if not only the local restrictions in the Dick Bequest, but the local restrictions in other bequests, were disregarded likewise ? — Only partially. The districts that are so endowed are few as compared with the whole country, and therefore if it were made general over the country, the increase of salaries to the teachers would be so small that this effect on education would not be produced. I think that is a strong point ; for this reason, that there exists a standing proof in the Dick Bequest counties, that an increased salary does produce a higher class of teacher and of attainments in schools. If that had been absorbed into the general funds of the country and made common to all, we should not have had such results. I think every district should provide for itself in that way. 3610. I don*t quite understand how the restriction of the benefit of a foundation to certain counties necessarily keeps up the salary of the teacher ? — I say that the restriction to certain counties does keep up the salary of the teacher, for this reason. By being confined to these counties, you give each teacher an increase of perhaps £50. These endowments are few as compared with the whole country ; and if you make them general over the country, you make the increase per teacher only £5, and thus lessen the stimulus to good men to enter the profession. 3611. That objection refers to the particular terms of the Dick Bequest only, and to any endowment like that? Suppose you have a large en- dowment, involving the distribution of a large sum of money, with a local restriction to persons born in a certain county, that objection would not apply? — It might or might not apply. That would depend on the amount of the endowment. 3612. Then you would not regard such a local restriction? — In certain cases I should not regard it, and in certain other cases I should. If the endowments were so large as to lead to the pauperizing of the people, or were otherwise detrimental, such local restrictions ought to be removed. 3613. The Chairman. — You have had some experience with reference to the Elgin Institution ? — Yes. 3614. You have visited it? — I visit the Free School connected with that institution every year, and I give a yearly report upon it. 312 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. William 3615. Not the School of Industry? — No ; I speak of the Free school, pl iy, E sq. 3616. Have you visited it every year? — Yes ; for four years. 3617. Is it in receipt of Government grant? — Yes; two teachers have it. I have not visited the Hospital officially. I have never been asked to do so. 3618. The Free school has about 300 children? — Yes ; that is a day school simply. The boys come from the town. 3619. Where are they boarded? — With their parents. The work done by Anderson's Institution is spoken of under two names, the Free school and the Hospital. I visit the Free school. That is the only part I visit. It is a successful school, and well taught ; and I believe it is well and regularly attended. In fact, regular attendance in schools depends greatly on who is the teacher. With a good teacher, the attendance will be more or less regular ; and it generally is so, even in a free school. 3620. Mr. Ramsay. — You mean in any school? — In any school. 3621. The Chairman. — Your opinion is favourable to the Free school ? —Yes. 3622. Is it free in the sense that there are no fees? — There are no fees. 3623. On what principle are the boys admitted? — They must be re- commended as deserving, from being poor. 3624. Boys connected with the county have a preference of admission ? —Yes. 3625. Do many of them come from the county? I don't know. 3626. You wish merely to speak of the successful working of it? — Yes. 3627. Mr. Sellar. — Would you say that the Elgin Free school is a good elementary day school, where the work does not go beyond the six standards ? — It does go beyond the six standards ; it does so in the three north-east counties. This school gives geography, grammar, composition, music, and drawing, including map-drawing. It gives the same as the average of parish schools. 3628. Did you examine it individually? — Yes. 3629. What proportion of scholars was presented? — I cannot now tell ; the pass is high. 3630. Did you examine it in 1870? — Yes; in 1870 and 1871 ; and in 1869. 3631. Are you aware that you state in your report of 1870, that a much larger proportion of scholars qualified by age and attendance should be presented for examination ? — Yes ; that arose from a new law issued by the Education Committee. In Scotland, previously, a good many had been kept back on account of a rather unfortunate clause in the minutes of the Committee of Council, that they could be kept back at the discre- tion of the managers. The grant was not dependent on the number passed ; and that was an attempt, at that particular date, to get a larger number presented. But that was common to every school. 3632. In 1870, there was not a large presentation? — The presentation was as good as the average of schools ; but that was brought under the notice of all school managers, and since then, there has been a large in- crease of presentations in Scotland generally. That school was no worse than others. 3633. In the case of all schools that you examined in 1870, did you add that note? — Yes, in most cases. The Education Department was so particular on that point, that we got back our reports with a note, — ' Please to notice that such a per-centage has not been presented, and lower your report accordingly.' We made a representation to the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 313 Education Department, that it would be unfair to do that at once, but William in the meantime to let it be known, and next year there would be a Jo1 1 ^ E s l- larger presentation ; and that was the case. 3634. Since you have been connected with it, have any. of the scholars gone to the Aberdeen bursary competition ? — Not from that school. 3685. Then it is not an advanced school like a parish school? — It does all the work of an ordinary parish school, except the preparation for the higher classes of Latin and Greek, and bursary competition work. 3636. Mr. Ramsay. — Is no instruction given in Latin and Greek in that school ? — I liave an impression that there is. It is very elementary, if there is. In a gre'at many parish schools, no Latin or Greek is taught. It depends on where the school is. 3637. And on the attainments of the teacher? — Yes ; in most parish schools the teachers could do it. 3638. In your opinion, would it be of importance that certificates should be granted only to those who have the qualifications to enable them to teach those branches ? — Yes ; in parish and higher schools. In elementary schools, they would be unnecessary. 3639. The Chairman. — Are there any bursaries connected with the Free school ? — No. 3640. Mr. Sellar. — Are all the scholars in that school taught the Shorter Catechism? — Yes, as far as I know. 3641. Does the schoolmaster necessarily belong to the Established Church 1 — I cannot answer that. I think so. 3642. The Chairman. — Have you any other remark to make with refer- ence to the F'ree school? — No. — During last year, there was a good deal of agitation in Elgin regarding the reform of the hospital system. Speeches were made, letters were wTitten, and meetings were called by certain parties, and the whole question was agitated much as it was in Edinburgh. The majority of the present managers, chiefly clerical, decided that no change should take place. 3643. Mr. Sellar. — Exclusively clerical? — I would not say. I took an interest in the subject, knowing the hospital system as I had done, and I spoke to many persons on the subject. I took no active part, but I stated my views to several in order to lead to reform if possible. I was decidedly in favour of reform ; and I should wish to mention the change that I should propose on the Elgin Hospital. 3644. The Chairman. — It is not the Hospital you visited ? — No. 3645. You only speak from your previous experience and your general knowledge? — Yes ; and also of what is going on in Elgin, of the necessity for change, and of the certainty that the same questions will come up again. I would propose to establish in Elgin an educational system of much the same kind as the Merchant Schools in F]dinburgh. 3646. For the same class? — No. I would establish a large school with the funds of the hospital, — a graded school, with a lower depart- ment, such as the Free school is at present, and with higher departments teaching all the subjects of an advanced education. Let this school be open to the whole of Elgin, and to the whole district — to all who will take advantage of it. Let a thorough staff of teachers be appointed, either on the departmental or sectional system, as may be considered preferable. Let the hospital boys be educated in this large school, as they are in Edinburgh, and let the school be conducted in the present hospital buildings, which are very good. This would provide for the education of the hospital boys. Of course, if there are any bursaries to send them to college, let these remain open to the same persons as be- fore. Then, regarding their maintenance, I should have the monastic 314 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. William system broken up, as recommended in my general remarks regarding Jol ly, E sq. hospitals. Let them be boarded with their parents, if they are good, or with good relatives if necessary, or with others selected by the governors. One point regarding boarding is important, and that is the fact that Anderson's Hospital is open, not only to Elgin, but to three or four parishes round about. 3647. It is limited to certain parishes? — Yes. 3648. Mr. Sellar. — To the county of Elgin. — The board, mainten- ance, and education of those beyond Elgin requires special consideration. I should say that their rights ought to be respected, and that these boys should be educated in Elgin along with the rest in this public school. As to their board, they could either remain at home with their parents and come to school by rail, as many children now do; or be boarded in Elgin, with relatives or other competent persons selected by the governors. 3649. The Chairman. — The School of Industry was originally intended for the support and maintenance of children of the labouring classes. You would not interfere with that ? — No. 3650. The school which you would form out of the funds would be a school for the working classes ? — No ; it would be a school open to all, in which the very highest instruction could be obtained, and also the very lowest, by a graded system of teaching. One recommendation of that is, that the hospital boys, who are just now educated apart under the hospital system, with all its evils, would mix with those of their own rank and with those of higher rank in Elgin and neighbourhood. 3651. I am speaking of those who would be supported out of the funds of the institution. You would not throw that open to. other than the labouring class ? — No. 3652. You would have it a mixed school of all classes? — Yes. 3653. And the privileges of the foundationers should be maintained ? — Yes. I consider it an important point in hospital reform that the privi- leges of those who have them should be fully maintained; but others should be brought in. 3654. Mr. Sellar. — You would maintain this large school in Elgin, and the present hospital boys should be foundationers in it, being educated with the other boys ? — Yes ; and they would be boarded out of the hospital. As to those living outside of Elgin, the question of their boarding requires special consideration. I have no great objection to their living with their parents, and getting education in good schools in their neighbourhood ; but that would not give them so good an educa- tion as the other boys get in the great school in Elgin. To obtain this advantage, they could be boarded at home and come in by rail ; or be boarded in Elgin, as already said. 3655. Do you purpose that fees should be charged at this school ? — Fully charged, except to the foundationers. It may be a question for the managers to determine afterwards, whether the fees should be lessened, as in Edinburgh, or be the regular fees of a large school. 3656. The Chairman. — Have you had experience in gratuitous instruc- tion in other counties ?— Yes. 3657. What is your opinion in regard to that? — Before speaking on this subject, I would mention one other point with regard to those whose parents live outside of Elgin ; there might be, as there is in connection with George Watson's Hospital in Edinburgh, a private house taken, and a lady superintendent appointed over it, in which a dozen or more orphans or outside boys might be boarded en famille and attend school. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 315 3658. What are your views as to gratuitous instruction? — My William general opinion regarding it is unfavourable. I think it should be JuI 1 y» E s q- avoided, except in the case of the very poor and necessitous, for the sake of the parent, because it is a man's duty to provide for the edu- cation of his family. He ought to have a pride in fulfilling that duty ; and I think it lowers the tone of a man to accept such assistance unless from necessity. I also think it should be avoided for the sake of the child. It produces a finer feeling in the boy when he knows that his father is educating him, that for this he is indebted to his father ; and it increases his sense of obligation in after life to assist his father. It makes a finer home feeling, and it produces after fruit, when the boy grows up to be a man, and has children of his own. If he has been educated by others, his sense of duty in this important matter is lower. It also gives an additional incentive to a boy to learn when educated by his father ; if he has any moral feeling at all, he feels that his duty is to take ad- vantage of the education thus given him amidst difficulties. Further, where fees are paid, the instruction is more valued ; where they are not paid, the result is more or less irregularity of attendance and its con- sequent evils. Of course, a great deal depends on the management of the institution. Fochabers Institution is a free school, and is admirably managed ; it is one of the best schools that I visit for tone and in- struction. 3659. Mr. Sellar. — Are no fees paid at the Fochabers Institution? — Certain parties have privileges. The school has got so famous that a number attend from other parishes, and they pay fees. 3660. How many are there in the school altogether? — I don't know. 3661. In the upper school there are 200, and of these only the scholars from the parish of Bellie are taught gratuitously ? — Yes. 3662. And that is a small proportion ? — I cannot tell the proportion. 3663. Is it not the case that the school takes its character not from the gratuitous pupils, but from the pupils who pay fees ? — I cannot tell ; but there are upper, middle, and lower departments. I visit the whole school, and report on it regularly. I spend two days on it, and it is admirably conducted in every respect. 3664. But you don't know the proportion of boys in the three depart- ments who are taught gratuitously ? — I don't know the proportion. I think it will be very high in the lower and middle divisions ; but in the higher, or rector's department, the proportion who pay fees will be con- siderable, I should think. 3665. Have you examined the gratuitous pupils separately ? — No. 3666. Have you inquired at the head master what his opinion is as to the gratuitous pupils ? — I have not. I know no distinction on examin- ing them, and I never heard any distinction made between them. They are examined together. 3667. The Chairman. — Your remarks with reference to the evils attend- ing gratuitous instruction apply to the Elgin Free School ? — That school is also a good one, but it is good because the teacher is good. But as another proof that the effect of gratuitous instruction is to make attendance irregular, in the most of the Highlands, in the General Assembly schools generally, which do a great part of the education, there are no fees paid. It is not the custom in that part of the country to pay, and the result is the greatest irregularity in attendance. The teachers complain of this as a great evil. In most cases where fees are asked, the attend- ance is better, especially if the fees are paid in advance. 3668. Then you think gratuitous instruction should not be given except in cases of clear necessity? — Only in cases of clear necessity. 31(3 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 3669. Mr, SeUar. — Is it not the ease in the Highland schools that the average of fees paid is about 3s. 4d. a child ? — Not so far as I am aware. 3670. Are you aware that the statistics of the Education Commission bring out that the average is something considerable ? For instance, out of 226 schools in the Hebrides, which are of the lowest class of schools in the Highlands, in one year the fees amount to £657 ? — I spoke of the General Assembly schools, and some parish schools, which I visit. 3671. Mr. Ramsay. — It is probably correct as a general statement, but it is not accurate to confine it to any particular class of schools, for in the Highlands there are schools in which fees are paid ? — I have no doubt of it ; but I speak of schools which I visit. 3672. In the Hebrides ? — Yes, I visit the Hebrides ; that is in my district. I visit the whole Highlands, from Inverness to Cape Wrath ; and in our form No. 9, the entry for fees is in very many of the schools I visit blank, and it still continues to be blank. 3673. Mr. Sellar. — Am I to understand that the £657 paid to the schools in the Hebrides is paid to other schools than the General Assembly schools ? — I cannot tell who pays them ; but in the schools under inspec- tion, fees are seldom paid in the North Highlands. Fees are occasionally paid, sometimes in money and sometimes in kind. These statistics as to fees surprise me, for the want of fees paid by parents has drawn my attention ; and I should like to see on what these statistics are based. I know of fees being paid in many schools by the Parochial Board for pauper children ; by charitable persons in the neighbourhood ; by others at a distance connected with the district ; by various associations ; and other eleemosynary sources. I fear that these are the main sources of the fees mentioned. But these are not real fees, which should be paid by the parents. Free Church schools, from the nature of the case, do and must receive more fees than others. I am sure it will be found that, as a general rule, fees are not paid in the North Highlands. ' Highlands ' is also a vague word. My remarks refer to the truly highland parts. On the east coast of the northern counties and in Caithness, which are truly lowland, fees are more or less well paid. 3674. Mr. Lancaster. — With so strong an opinion against gratuitous instruction, why would you adhere to a founder's will, which provides for gratuitous instruction ? — For this reason, that the founder intended to benefit certain parties, and left money for that purpose ; and also because reform must be based upon the mutual yielding of parties. If reform is too radical, it will not be done ; and for this reason also I should say that the rights of the recipients should be respected. Besides, the whole of hospital instruction and maintenance is gratuitous, and by destroying this element, you destroy the whole system. 3675. With reference to your first Greek, and mathematics ; English is appended only for a few, and with regard to certain bursaries. 4376. To what do you attribute the increase this year? — I think it is due to the fact that it is beginning to be circulated and known that it is a great advantage to the lads to pass, and the masters are bestirring them- selves in the secondary and primary schools to get the lads prepared. 4377. Do you think the passing of the Education Act has helped to create such an interest in Scotland ? — I cannot speak as to that. 4378. In examining the Dick Bequest schools, did you examine any of those participating in the Milne Bequest ? — Yes ; in the county of Aber- deen most were participating in that bequest. 4379. Have you paid any attention to the system of administration of the Milne Bequest f — I only heard of it accidentally. The examiner in my early time was Dr. Cruickshank, an excellent and able man, but not very severe. We were pointed at as being a contrast to Dr. Cruickshank. 4380. Should you consider it an improvement if the Milne Bequest were administered on similar terms to the Dick Bequest ? — Decidedly. 4381. Have you paid any attention to the administration of the Ferguson Bequest ? — I have examined for four years for the Ferguson Bequest. 4382. Can you tell us the system upon which it is administered? — So far as the trustees are concerned, it is given to encourage very high attainments. 4383. These are the Ferguson Scholarships for the University ? — Yes. 4384. But I mean rather the Ferguson Bequest for the schools? — No ; I have no information on that subject. 4385. Dollar is recognised by the Secretary of State for India as a training school for the Indian Civil Service ? — Yes ; for the engineering department. 4386. Are there any other schools that are so recognised? — I am not aware of any. 4387. Do you suppose that gives a stimulus to the technical depart- ment ? — I think it is the technical department being in so good a state that has brought that about. 4388. Mr. Lindsay is no longer there? — No. I am very sorry for it, as he was most energetic and enthusiastic, and was an eminent student with Principal Forbes and myself. 4389. Have you examined the school since he left that department? — I have examined it by written papers. It is in a very fair position in that department, but, I should think, hardly so lively as it was. 4390. Mr. Parker. — How far do they carry mathematics in the Aber- deenshire schools? — Generally they go through three books of Euclid, and algebra to quadratics. 4391. And when one hears of higher subjects, they are exceptional cases? — Quite exceptional. I have seen six books of Euclid, and higher algebra ; but in parochial schools what I have already stated is very good, and all you can hope for or expect as a rule. 4392. Do you think it desirable to carry boys as far as quadratic equations? — I think it desirable to allow boys to get that length who have talent for it. It picks out from the country population those whose talents are worth cultivating for the good of the State. 4393. Do you attach much importance to the teaching of physics in elementary schools ? — No ; my experience and belief is, that in elementary schools anything like a copious addition of physics draws off the attention 382 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor of children, being a little captivating in appearance, — such as experiments Keiiand. j n electricity, and so on. I can only remember one or two schools in which it was prominent. I remember one school under the Dick Bequest, and it was very inferior in other ways. I do not think it is a good thing for the children that their attention should be abstracted at that age from the harder elements which build up the man. 4394. Do you think it desirable that their reading books should include subjects in natural science ? — Certainly. 4395. And they should be examined upon these subjects, to see how far they understood them? — Most certainly. 4396. You do not regard ^Greek as being really part of the pro- gramme ? — Only as an exception. 4397. You would retain Latin for the higher classes? — I think every country schoolmaster should know Latin. He has no chance of being a thoroughly competent teacher of English without Latin ; and in the next place, the requirements of the country side are moving in Scotland, and are becoming very great. 4398. Have you considered how you would apply the smaller local en- dowments that exist here and there in the country districts, to the advan- tage of the schools ? — In my opinion, the advantage of the schools would be met if you had a higher class of men ; therefore I should apply them to draw out a higher class of men, as in the Dick Bequest, giving them to those men who, when they are instituted into a school, prove themselves to be really worthy of continuing in that place ; and I would make the inducements such as would lead them to continue. 4399. Then you would give them such inducements in aid of their salary? — Not as eleemosynary aid, but on the teacher showing himself a good man, and to be retained on that condition. 4400. And if these endowments were so devoted, how would you pre- vent their going simply to relieve the ratepayers from a part of his salary ? — I would make it a condition that no schoolmaster should participate who did not receive from the ratepayers and the Privy Council allowance a minimum sum of say £80 a year, so as not to give it for the relief of the ratepayers, or on account of the poverty of the teacher. 4401. Is that a rule at present with the Dick Bequest? — The rules are undergoing revision ; but in the former position of the Dick Bequest the law took that into its own hands as to the heritors giving a certain allow- ance. 4402. Do you think it desirable it should be so ? — Yes ; and the Dick trustees will undoubtedly take that into consideration, — not to give the funds in any way for the relief of the ratepayers. 4403. If there were local endowments more than sufficient for the aid to salary, what would be the next important object? — I think the secondary schools are certainly the next, and we should not forget at any time to make them as really efficient as they ought to be. If in any district there was more than sufficient money to put the primary schools into an efficient state, I would do a little for the secondary schools. 4404. Would you expend any such endowments on small bursaries, to carry boys on or retain them at the school ? — As a member of Senatus, that is rather a difficult thing for me to answer, but my own opinion is rather in the negative. 4405. You rely more on the improvement of the teachers? — Yes; but I would not like to speak positively on that point. Small bursaries are somewhat doubtful, except by a broad, open competition in a district (say a county) where the county at large competes, but not little frittered ones, at this school and that. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 383 4406. Does your answer apply to bursaries from elementary to second- Professor ary schools, or from secondary schools to the University ? — I am speaking K ella " ' of bursaries from the secondary and elementary schools to the University. 4407. What should you think of small payments in aid, to enable promising boys to go from the primary to the secondary school ? — I think it might be a proper thing, under regulations, to help them to come up from the country side. That, of course, would require a good deal of money to do it efficiently. 4408. I think you stated you would rather see four technical schools established than one large one : do you mean in different towns ? — Yes. 4409. And in such technical schools, would you have any literary element side by side with the technical ? — It is a little difficult, perhaps, to see how that might be done. They might then come into direct com- petition with those at present existing, which would be unpleasant. It might be a good thing, I dare say, but I doubt whether it would be desir- able to introduce such a thing at present. 4410. In such a technical school, what do you think should be the lower limit of age for admission? — That is a point I have not thought of; but reasoning from those who enter the universities, I should think it might be something like seventeen. I would not go lower than seventeen or eighteen. I am thinking of a technical school of the higher class. 4411. But if a technical school were to be founded in Edinburgh, you would not take mere children? — Not at all. They should be kept to English, Latin, and other things which are the basis of a person's education in this country. These should never be lost sight of. 4412. And the mathematical basis for technical instruction, — do you think that also would be laid at the elementary schools before the age of sixteen? — A great deal of it certainly. 4413. You would not be afraid of an unsound foundation being laid in the elementary schools? — I think not. Judging from the Dick Bequest schools, we are safe in that respect. 4414. Do you know the age at which they enter such a school as the Ecole Centrale ? — No, I have no information on that head. 4415. In such a technical school, do you think drawing of various kinds should form a very large part of the teaching ? — Not a very large part, I should say. It is rather a finishing than an improving ; it is the principles that are the main point. But drawing is beyond the point of the school, and verges on the professional. A technical school is to pre- pare men for all professions, to give them education in the bases of the application of mathematics, mechanics, chemistry, and natural philosophy, so as to prepare them for all. 4416. You consider the branches you have mentioned more important than architectural or industrial drawing generally ? — These come subse- quently, rather as the extreme end of the school, — what would corre- spond to the third year course in France. 4417. Mr. Ramsay. — You have stated that attendance is one of the tests or conditions on which grants are given from the Dick Bequest? — Yes. 4418. Then have you any reference to the population of the district in which the school is situated in judging of the attendance ? — No reference to the population or district, because we consider a good man in a good district ought to be a little better paid than a man in an inferior district ; but if a very superior man gets into a very inferior district, he makes it up by his scholarship mark. 4419. What I wish to know is, whether those qualified teachers secure a higher proportion of attendance than there is in the other parishes? — 384 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor As a rule, certainly. I have no doubt of it whatever, because I have seen Keiland. m populous districts very thinly attended schools, owing to the inferiority of the master. 4420. Do you think the high acquirements of the teacher tend to create a demand for higher instruction? — It does not create a demand for it, but it forms an outlet by which those who are clever and have genius and life in them find themselves able to go on. I do not think any one would be drawn out from the knowledge that the master was able ; but when he gets into the school, the master stimulates him by what he does, and by and by the boy is drawn forward. 4421. Is it not the case that a teacher possessing acquirements and seeing the ability of the scholar induces the scholar to go on ? — He feels the scholar's pulse. There is a mutual sympathy between them ; and very beautiful it is to see in the country schools how the poorest lads showing ability and talent are en rapport with their teachers. 4422. Is it your opinion that throughout the country generally we should have in every parish and every district a teacher possessing those higher acquirements ? — We can scarcely ask for Greek, but I should like to see all the others I mentioned in connection with the Dick Bequest. 4423. Is it, then, your opinion that the present standard of examination for certificates to enable teachers to obtain the Privy Council grant is too low ? — I think it would be better to be higher. FRIDAY, 24th January 1873. PRESENT — Sir Edward Colebrooke, Bart., Chairman. Sir William Stirling-Maxwell, Bart. Mr. Parker, M.P. Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Lancaster. Mr. Sellar. Alexander Cameron, examined. Alexander 4424. The Chairman. — You are Provost of Elgin ? — I am. Cameron. 4425. And a trustee of the Elgin Institution? — Yes, simply ex officio. 4426. I understand the trustees had at one time under their considera- tion the expediency of some change in the constitution of the institution ? — They had. I think it was in 1870 that the matter was brought for- ward. 4427. In that case I believe you were favourable to the proposed change ? — I was the person who, in conjunction with the Sheriff-substitute of the county, who is also an ex officio trustee, brought forward the pro- posals for a change. 4428. Who are the members of the trust? — The members of the trust consist of the two Established Church ministers of the parish of Elgin, which is a collegiate charge, the moderator of the Established Presbytery of Elgin, the Sheriff of the county, the Sheriff- substitute, and the Provost of the town. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 385 4429. Is the parish of the moderator in the neighbourhood of Elgin Alexander also? — The presbytery pretty well surrounds the town, in a circle of from Ottmeron. six to eight miles, and the moderator is always within easy distance of the town. He can never be ten miles away from it. 4430. And he might be a minister of Elgin ? — He might be, but he never is. It is not for me to explain why, but I believe since this institu- tion was in existence, no minister of Elgin has ever been appointed moderator of the presbytery. 4431. The trust is, among other things, for the foundation of an hospital for old men and women? — Yes. But before I leave the subject of the trustees, I think it right to mention that the present Sheriff-depute of the county, Mr. Bell, formally resigned his office of trustee a good many years ago, and has ceased to act. The pre- vious sheriffs of the county took a good deal of interest in the institution, and attended the meetings when they were in the county ; but Mr. Bell has never done so, so that the trustees have consisted of the three clergymen and the Provost and the Sheriff- substitute. I don't know that Mr. Bell ever did act, and he has executed a formal deed of resignation. 4432. Mr. Sellar. — Was it before the trustees passed their statute, which was in 1865, that he resigned? — I think it was subsequent to 1865 that he resigned ; but he declined to act in any trusts of that kind in the county, and has never done it. I cannot tell the exact time when he resigned ; but the fact is that the thing is now managed by the three clergymen and the Provost and the Sheriff-substitute. 4433. The Chairman. — Would you state generally what is the nature of the foundation ? — The hospital is established for the purposes of found- ing and endowing an hospital, a school of industry, and a free school, within the town of Elgin, in North Britain, or its immediate vicinity. The Hospital, as distinguished from the teaching department, is a wing of the building, in which are located five old men and five old women belonging to the town of Elgin, making ten in all in that department, and who are kept there very comfortably, I believe. The School of Industry applies to the boys living in the house. The will of General Anderson calls it a school of industry for the separate maintenance, clothing, and education of male and female children of the labouring class of society whose parents are unable to maintain and educate them. Now, at the time when that will was made, and even when the institution was opened, there was no poor law in Scotland ; and since the recent Education Bill has been passed, people who hold my opinions think that, for that class of children, we have now a poor law and an education law, by which the necessity for an institution of this sort is interfered with to a considerable extent. The third purpose of the institution is for the establishment of a free school, conducted by a properly qualified master and mistress, for the education of male and female children, whose parents may be in better circumstances, and able to maintain and clothe them, but who are not very well able to educate them. That has been an exceedingly useful department of the institution. There is a school, now called the Free School, connected with the institution, which educates about 300 children, and has been a great boon, I have no doubt, to the labouring population there. Had it not been for that school, in a place of the size of Elgin, with a population of upwards of 7000, there must have been some other means than there are at present established for educating such children. I may mention that we have no parish school in the town or parish of Elgin. There is an academy, which is a burgh school, and is the only thing to come in place of a parish school. There are two schools in the 2 B 386 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander country district of the parish, supported chiefly by Lord Fife on different Cameron. p ar t s 0 f hj s property. 4434. Mr. Ramsay. — Does the burgh comprehend the whole of the landward part of the parish ? — No. There is a very large landward part of the parish beyond the burgh. 4435. And there is no parish school there? — There is not. The parish extends five miles on the one side of the town, and seven or eight miles on the other ; and Lord Fife, who is a large proprietor in the neighbourhood, is the chief supporter of two schools there. But they are not parish schools in any sense of the word. They are just schools set up chiefly by him, and I suppose the farmers pay the fees for the education of their children. I have not much acquaintance with them, but they are not endowed in any sort of way, except that I believe his lordship gives a small sum to the teacher annually, which is often done by a gentleman in the country for schools of that kind. 4436. But he does not make any payment in respect of a parish teacher ? — No ; there is no payment. There has never been a parish school in Elgin. 4437. Mr. Sellar. — And no parochial assessment? — None. 4438. The Chairman. — Would you continue the statement you were making with regard to the institution? — After the passing of the Endowed Hospitals Act, my attention and that of the Sheriff-substitute, Mr. Smith, was directed to this institution at Elgin, and we had a good many con- sultations upon the subject, — the result being that we proposed a scheme for the better application of the funds of the institution. We proposed, in the first place, with regard to the old men and women, or the hospital part of the establishment, that they should get so much a year each, — I think we proposed not exceeding £20 for each old man and not exceeding £15 for each old woman, — and let them go and live where they liked, and do the best they could with the money. We believed they would all take that money instead of the maintenance in the hospital, if it was offered to them ; but if they wished to remain in the hospital, we had no intention to turn them out so long as the present inmates survived. 4439. After their death, what did you propose? — Then we proposed to appoint other people, giving them similar annuities. 4440. You proposed to continue the charity, only in the shape of pen- sions instead of maintenance in the hospital ? — Yes. Then, with regard to the School of Industry, we proposed that maintaining children in the estab- lishment should cease ; and until the expiry of the periods for which the present inmates were admitted, that the children should be boarded with their friends or other suitable persons, and maintained and educated at the expense of the trustees. Then there is a system of apprentice fees, paid in terms of the will, after the boys have left the institution, which we proposed to discontinue. 4441. Did you propose to do away with the School of Industry altogether ? — Yes. 4442 . And the Free School also ? — Not the Free School — I will come to that by and by ; but we considered the School of Industry quite a misnomer. There is nothing whatever of an industrial nature taught in it except some garden work. It is neither more nor less than a common school for teaching children, who are boarded and lodged in the establish- ment. We did not think that system was worth the money that was expended upon it, but that the funds could be much better applied to general education in the town and county of Elgin. Having in view that if we took a large endowment of this sort, and set up free schools and a free system of education, as we proposed to do, we would have starved MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 387 out the teachers of all the present schools in Elgin, we proposed to absorb Alexander them all under our system ; and we proposed to invite the Town Council Cameron, of Elgin to join us in going to the Home Secretary for a Provisional Order to combine with our scheme the present Elgin Academy, which is endowed to the extent of from £120 to £140 a year from funds in the hands of the Town Council. We proposed that should be included in a general scheme which is detailed in resolutions, a copy of which I have here with me, and which I will leave. [Produces copy of resolutions.] 4443. The Academy, you said, was a burgh school? — It is entirely a burgh school. 4444. And it will now, as such, be transferred to the management of the new School Board? — It will be transferred to the management of the School Board, and it is one of the schools scheduled in the Act as schools to be set aside for the purposes of higher education. Then there were certain details of our scheme, with which, however, I suppose I need not trouble the Commission. 4445. There are some parts of it about which I may ask you some questions presently ; but would you explain with regard to the School of Industry your reason for wishing to abolish it — why you thought it would not be wanted for the future, and that the name was a misnomer ? Do you consider that it did not work well as a school ? — We considered not only that it did not give anything like an adequate return for the out- lay by educating 25 boys and 25 girls with the old people at an expense of about £1500 a year, and turning them out to be domestic servants and apprentices to trades with a very so-so kind of education ; but that the name was misapplied, and that a very great deal more could be done with it now-a-clays, if, under the provisions of the Endowed Institutions Act, which was in force at that time, we could have educated a few hundreds of children instead of maintaining and educating forty or fifty. We considered that the forty or fifty children of parents who were unable to maintain and educate them were neither more nor less than the children of paupers, and that it was relieving the poor rates of the different parishes of the county ; and we thought the scope of the Endowed Insti- tutions Act was such, that while we applied the funds to educational pur- poses with the sanction of Parliament, that application might be varied in the way that we proposed. 4446. With regard to the School of Industry, it is stated in the answers to the schedule that there was an alteration in the age at which children were to be admitted. By the original trust they were to be admitted at six, which was changed to eight. Was that a point about which you took any legal opinion as to whether or not it was within the terms of your trust ? — That change was made many years ago. 4447. You were not in the trust at that time ? — No ; it was done thirty years ago, — early in the history of the school. The will, I think, says that children shall be not under six years of age at their entry, and not exceeding twelve years of age when they are to cease to enjoy the advantages of the trust ; but the trustees found that twelve years was far too early an age to send children out, and they altered it, by a bye-law of their own, to eight and fourteen. There is no doubt whatever that that was better than six and twelve, because fourteen is young enough to send out any child to be an apprentice to a trade. 4448. I suppose the School of Industry itself was a well-conducted one? You had no reason to complain of the manner in which the children were educated ? — No ; I had no complaint to make on that score. 4449. Was any complaint ever stated to you as to it not being well worked? — No; there was no complaint made to us on that point. 388 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander 4450. The county has a preference with regard to the election of C amero n, children : will you state in what proportion the children are from the county ? — The county as distinguished from the burgh of Elgin has no preference under General Anderson's will. But a great many years ago the then trustees framed a scheme whereby the children were apportioned among the different parishes, according to the population. That scheme, I believe, was revised about ten years ago, after the census of 1861, and it has remained at the rate then fixed ever since ; but the will simply says that the children from any part of the county of Elgin shall have the pre- ference over children from other parts of the country. 4451. Or from other counties? — Yes; but the trustees, soon after the establishment of the institution, apportioned so many to each parish. They don't take the most necessitous ; they don't take the whole county into view whenever there is a vacancy ; but if a certain child leaves the institution, and if he belongs to the parish of A or B or C, then the parish of A or B or C, as the case may be, nominates another child. The way in which it has been done is this : the governors of the institution issued schedules to the kirk-session of the parish, and the kirk-session sent in the names of one or more children whom they considered fit and proper objects to receive the benefits of the institution. But on one occasion at least since I have been a trustee, within the last three or four years, there were no proper objects in the parish, and no person wanting it very much. The proper way to do, in my opinion, would be to let children from any part of the county, including the burghs, apply every time, and let the trustees take the best means they can find of ascertaining which child is the most necessitous, and put him in, if the institution is to be maintained on its present footing. 4452. That rule of giving the benefit to the nomination of a particular parish is one which has been worked up to the present day ? — It has been worked up to this hour. 4453. Although occasionally, owing to the manner in which the county is divided, there is sometimes not an applicant for that benefit? — Yes. Our scheme was objected to very much by the moderator of the presbytery, and by the clergy generally throughout the county, on the ground that by it we were going to confer all the benefits of these endow- ments upon the town of Elgin, at the expense of the rest of the county. We proposed in our scheme that every parish should get so many children educated ; that instead of sending one child to the institution, the education of these children should be paid for in the parish school, and that there should be so many small bursaries of £10 or £15 each, which should be competed for by the children at the parish schools ; and when they got these bursaries, then they could come to the advanced school which we proposed to establish in Elgin, and work their way to the University if that was desired. We thought that if the child was a clever enough child at the advanced school in Elgin, he was quite capable of gaining one of the numerous bursaries at the University of Aberdeen, and that that would be reserving an advantage to the poor class of children, whom the money was meant to benefit, by educating, say, 10 or 20 children, as the case might be, as the funds would admit of, from the country parishes, and establishing £10 or £15 bursaries, as the case might be, which clever children in the county could compete for. 4454. These bursaries would be for special competition in the county ? — Yes. £10 or £15 would keep a poor child in Elgin perfectly well while he was receiving his education; and in addition to that, he would have got education free in the highest branches taught in Scotch country schools. 4455. You mean that a bursary of £10 or £15 would bring the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 389 children into Elgin, and allow them to get their education there? — -Yes ; Alexander for their higher education. And then, if they wished to rise in the world, Cameron, they could go to Aberdeen, and if they had abilities they would get a bursary there. 4456. Would you say what proportion of the fund you proposed to allocate in this way to the county? — We proposed, by Resolution 10 — 4 That from time to time, so soon as the institution is relieved from the charge of maintaining the present inmates of the School of Industry, the fees of educating 200 poor children in the parish and other country schools throughout the county, including the Burgh School of Forres, shall be paid out of the institution — the number of children to be so educated in each parish to be regulated from time to time, according to the population of the respective parishes ; and that twenty bursaries of £10 each be established, for the purpose of defraying the maintenance of twenty children while attending the advanced school at Elgin. Such bursaries to be competed for by the poor children educated on this foundation at the country schools, and to be tenable for three years ; such children, in addition to the bursaries, to receive their education at the advanced school free. That the proposals contained in this resolution be gradually carried into effect, as regards each parish, as the funds of the institution are relieved from supporting the child or children from that parish within or without the institution.' We had an alternative resolution, that if the trustees did not approve of that way of settling it, then some neutral per- sons should be called in as arbiters, to say between the county and the town what was a fair thing to do with regard to the benefits that the country parishes receive at the present time. 4457. Can you say the amount that under that rule would have been allocated to the country parishes ? — I can state something like it in this way : — There were £200 that we proposed to go for bursaries. Then we proposed to educate 200 children in the country parishes. I calculated that that would cost £1 each, or possibly more for the boys. I thought that would take from £200 to £300 more ; but at the discussion which took place upon the subject, the moderator of the presbytery, Dr. Mackie, of the parish of Alves, corrected me, and said that the average fees of a parish school were only 14s., and he gave that as an authoritative state- ment, having been for a good many years a parish schoolmaster himself. My answer to that was, 4 Well, if it is only 14s., I am very glad to hear it, because then we could educate 400 children instead of 200, as I thought.' But the whole of our proposals with regard to money were made in a tentative form. We were quite willing to discuss all the details of the thiDg, and add to or subtract from any of the pecuniary pro- posals, as might be the opinion of the majority of the trustees. 4458. But the part of the scheme in which the county was specially interested was the change you proposed by the abolition of the School of Industry ? — The great objection that the county made to the scheme was as to the abolition of the School of Industry. They said that a parish gained £25 or £30 a year by having a child educated in that school ; and what they wanted was, that we would give £25 or £30 a year — I think they put it at £27, 10s. — when we shut up the School of Industry. Now, that would have been of no use whatever, because it would have absorbed all the funds. We proposed to continue the present free school attached to the institution itself in the town of Elgin. We proposed to embrace the Academy and the Trades' School, which is a school established a good many years ago by the Incorporated Trades of Elgin, and which is supported entirely by fees and any money they may get under the present Government grant. I don't think the master has 390 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander any salary ; or if he has, it is a very trifling one. But we proposed to em- Cameron. b race a u these schools in our scheme, and have a certain number of mem- bers elected by the Town Council to form the managing body, along with the trustees of General Anderson's Institution and the Convener of the In- corporated Trades, in consequence of our embracing their school in our scheme. Our proposal was to have a free school, and then we proposed to have a general school, the education in which should extend to mathe- matics, geometry, principles of chemistry, machine drawing, and theo- retical mechanics. 4459. Were these branches to be taught in a higher school? — Yes ; we proposed to have a free school, and then to have a middle school as it were. 4460. In Elgin? — Yes; and that the fees for that middle school should only be Is. per quarter. 4461. The free school would virtually be a continuation of the present free school ? — Yes. 4462. I wish to return for a moment to the point with regard to the School of Industry, and the claims that were put forward on the part of the parishes. As I understand, they said they were entitled to something like £25 a year?— They claimed £27, 10s. 4463. Mr. Sella?:— -That would be for fifty children ?— Yes ; but the parish of Elgin had about ten from its population out of the fifty. 4464. How many parishes are there in the county of Elgin? — About 24 or 25. Some of them are pretty large. Forres, for instance, with a burgh in it of 4000 inhabitants, would have four or five children ; while some of the very small country parishes had only half a child — that is to say, they elected one child alternately with another parish. 4465. The Chan-man. — I suppose you don't deny that they virtually did receive something like that amount ? You only object to the manner in which it was applied ? — I denied that they received that amount at all. What I said was, that they got a child which, if they had not had it main- tained in that way, would have been maintained by the poor rates, and that what they gained was the cost of the maintenance of the child at the rate that it would have cost them under the poor law. 4466. But if that were changed, would not that particular parish have a claim to have the £25, or whatever it was, applied to the improvement of the education in that parish? — If this had been an endowment ex- pressly left to the parish by General Anderson, probably it would ; but it was merely an arbitrary way of apportioning the endowment, which the trustees adopted thirty years ago. 4467. And you don't think it was a just one as between the different parishes ? — I don't think it was a proper one. I would not like to say that the trustees intended to do anything which was unjust — I am far from saying that ; but I don't think it was a proper way to apportion it for this reason, that I think the trustees were bound to exercise their own discretion in selecting fit and proper children, and that they were not doing a right thing in devolving that upon the kirk-sessions of the different parishes. I think that if there were more necessitous children in one parish than in another, then that parish should have got a greater benefit. 4468. Do you consider that the proposal you made fully exhausted the pecuniary claims of the county? — I thought it did, because the whole county would have had an interest in the advanced school in Elgin, where they could have got as many children as they were likely to require educated in the best manner free of expense, and maintained at the same time by the bursaries that we proposed to establish. 4469. And you would have allowed that question as to the pecuniary MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 391 claim of the different parishes in the county to have been settled by Alexander arbitration ? — Yes ; we proposed that. Cameron. 4470. You would have been content, and would have been bound, if the arbiter had said that a larger sum than is proposed should be given to these parishes ? — Certainly. 4471. Your object was that there should be a great improvement in the education supplied by the fund ; and as to the relative claims of town and country, they might be settled by arbitration? — Exactly ; that is what we proposed. 4472. Then you proposed by your scheme to abolish the system of apprenticing ? — Yes. We do not think that is a thing that is very much to the advantage of the children of the establishment generally. We thought that if they got a good education, and were started in the world for themselves, they were quite as well off as if they were apprenticed to a trade. The institution at present pays high apprentice fees for these children, and, in fact, gives them an advantage over the children of poor people who are not in much better circumstances than they are. 4473. Then, in fact, you think it is not wanted? — It is not wanted. We did not think it was worth the money that was devoted to it. 4474. Was that one of the express provisions in the trust as to the application of the money ? — Yes ; to put them out as apprentices. 4475. But you thought on the whole it was a case in which the money might be better applied, and that it was a reasonable application to be made under the Endowed Schools Act that you should be allowed so to apply it ? — We thought so. 4476. What have you to say with regard to the remainder of the scheme? — With regard to the advanced schools, we proposed that the endowments of the Academy should be used as they are at present for salaries to the teachers, but that the buildings of the present institution, which are of an extensive character, should be made use of for the purpose of the school, and that those who were able to pay fees — that is, the middle class, because one really cannot say that there are any very rich people about a country place like Elgin — should get a good education for their children on sending them to that school, and paying ordinary, fair, and reasonable fees for them. 4477. What do you mean by ordinary, fair, and reasonable fees ? Do you mean lower than the present fees that are paid ? — No'. I should say that, for the education that we would have been able to give with the help of these funds, the fees would have been higher than they are at the Academy at present. We calculated that probably the fees for a boy of twelve or fourteen getting his education there would be from £8 to £10 a year. We proposed that these fees should go to the benefit of the insti- tution — that they should not go into the masters' pockets ; but that we should pay the masters proper salaries, and take the fees and apply them for the purposes of the school. 4478. The Academy, I presume, is one for the benefit of the county as well as of the town ? — Yes ; it is an open burgh school. 4479. It is considerably resorted to by boys from the neighbourhood ? ■ — Yes ; a good deal. 4480. Is it an elementary school also ? — It is ; and in my young days it was a great school for many boys from other parts of the country as well. People from the more northern counties sent their sons to board in Elgin with the masters of the Academy. It was a school which had a very good reputation in those days. A brother of Mr. Sellar was a schoolfellow of mine there, and afterwards at the Aberdeen University. 4481. Would you state how much of the fund would be applied to 392 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander that part of your scheme 1 — I am afraid I could not state that exactly off- amercm. ^ an ^ j n f ac ^ a \\ our proposals with regard to the pecuniary part of the scheme were put forward more in a tentative shape. We felt under obli- gation to sketch out some proposals, but at the discussions on the subject we said again and again that we were ready to listen to any proposals for modification, and to discuss them in a fair and reasonable spirit. 4482. You have said that you proposed to keep up the Free School ; was that as a free school without any payment of fees ? — Yes ; without any payment of fees. At first it was proposed that we should make a limit that no parent who was making more than £40 a year of wages should get his children admitted to the Free School ; but we afterwards came to think that it was unnecessary to make any particular restriction of that sort, and that where there was another school, opened with fees of only one shilling per quarter, no respectable artisan or labourer would send a child to the Free School if he could get his education for one shilling a quarter, and if he could at all afford to pay that sum. But, of course, a poor man with six or seven children cannot afford very well to pay six or seven shillings a quarter, and there are a great many children of that sort at the Free School getting their education for nothing. 4483. How are children admitted at present ? Do the trustees at their meetings select them out of any number of applicants ? — For the admissions to the Free School, the trustees meet once a month. The teacher attends and states the number of vacancies, and there are cards of application, which we require to have signed by two householders recommending the applicants. 4484. Do you make special inquiry into each case ? — No ; but there is a small schedule on the back of the card, stating who the parents are, whether both parents are alive or not, and how many children there are and their ages, and some other questions of that sort. We look them over, and sometimes when there are a good many applications — perhaps 50 or 60 applications for 10 or 15 vacancies — we have no difficulty in getting fit objects without going very far. 4485. Do you decide in favour of the most necessitous ? — Yes. 4486. At least you endeavour to do so ? — Yes. 4487. And there is a preference in favour of children from any part of the county? Does that come under your consideration? — The Free School, of course, is entirely confined to the town of Elgin, because the parents of children in the county have no means of maintaining them in the town. 4488. And they could not come from a distance? — No. 4489. With regard to the proposed constitution of the trust under these changes, how would you propose to regulate it ? — Our proposal with regard to that was contained in Resolution 5. We proposed that the Elgin Academy should be combined with the scheme, and that the Town Council should elect from their own number, or from outside the Council, three trustees on their behalf, to form, along with the acting trustees of Anderson's Institution, and also, in the event of the adoption of the Trades' School, along with the convener for the time being of the Incorporated Trades of Elgin, a joint board for the management of the Academy. We proposed that the trustees of Anderson's Institution should retain the exclusive control of the funds for the old men and women, but that the educational board should consist of the present trustees and of three trustees nominated by the Town Council. 4490. This was very much objected to by the clerical members of the board ? — They did not seem to like to have three town councillors put in among them, and said they would never consent to anything of the kind. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 303 4491. They themselves would have been retained in the trust f — Yes; Alexander the existing trustees would have been retained. But our proposal was that Cameron, the Town Council should name other three, not necessarily town councillors ; they might have been any gentlemen in the town or neighbourhood. 4492. But as the Town Council has ceased to have any control over the Burgh School, it would fall to the School Board to appoint persons who would now be amalgamated in this trust whenever your scheme was carried out ? — It would, unless the Town Council were taken as representing the community in the matter. But as their control over the education of the burgh is to be taken away, the School Board would probably be the most natural party to look to for that. It is a great pity that such a scheme was not carried out at the time we proposed it, because if that had been done, we should probably never have required an educational rate in Elgin. 4193. But you are anxious still to proceed substantially with your scheme if you have power by law to do so ? — I cannot say that I should continue to advocate the scheme now, because, before any action can take place in it now, the new School Board will have set to work, and will have established new schools and may have changed the present state of things in Elgin a good deal ; so that I would not like to commit myself to what might be proper proposals two or three years hence, if any legislative action should be taken. 4494. You have not considered in what respect you, as a trustee, would desire to have your scheme modified now? — If no Education Act had passed last session, I should still have been prepared to advocate the scheme which I proposed then. 4495. What part of the scheme do you think the Education Act super- sedes? — I have not considered that point, because I don't know what action the School Board shortly to be elected in Elgin may take. 4496. Might it, for instance, affect the position with regard to the pro- priety of continuing the Free School? — It might to some extent; but the Free School, I understand, will continue outside the School Board. Of course I cannot say anything about that ; I have not had time to consider the regulations of the Education Department for Scotland with regard to these matters, but I rather fancy that the free school connected with this institution will not come under the School Board. 4497. Then you think the passing of the Education Act may still leave room for the Free School to be continued with advantage? — I have no doubt the Free School will be continued with advantage. 4498. But these are matters you are not prepared to give an opinion upon at present, until you have seen the working of the Act ? — No ; I should not like to do so until then. 4499. Mr. Sellav. — But your objection to the School of Industry would still continue? It would not be affected by the passing of the Education Act ? — No. My opinions on that point remain precisely the same. 4500. Do you still consider that it ought to be done away with? — I do. 4501. How many children are there at the School of Industry just now? — There are between forty and fifty at present. The number was twenty-five boys and twenty-five girls, but by a recent resolution, passed a month or two ago, the trustees have resolved to reduce the number maintained in the School of Industry from fifty to forty. They are to have fifteen boys and twenty-five girls. Their reason for doing so is on account of the greatly increased expense of everything. We found last year that our expenditure was exceeding our income ; and boys are more expensive than girls, because their maintenance as apprentices after they leave the hospital falls upon us; and we thought we would require to reduce our expenditure. 394 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander 4502. Do you consider that the small number which you can maintain Cameron, under the hospital system increases the disadvantages of that system ? — I think so. 4503. Have you followed the lives of any of the hospital-trained boys ? — I have not. There was no register of them kept. 4504. So far as you know, they have done nothing to distinguish them- selves in after life in any way ? — Not that I ever heard of. Some of them have turned out respectable enough members of society, but I have never heard of any of them who became a scholar except one, a lad of the name of Rennie, who was lame. My father, who was then Sheriff-substitute of the county, and Mr. Cosmo Innes, who was the Sheriff, took an interest in the lad, and pushed him on after he left the institution, and he became an assistant to Mr. Innes in his black-letter researches. 4505. Then is the basis of your opposition to the School of Industry chiefly on the ground of its expense ? — Chiefly. 4506. And that the system of education is not satisfactory? — Yes ; that the system of education is not satisfactory. I should prefer to see the children of the School of Industry turned into the Free School and educated there ; and, except that I believe it is rather contrary to the will, I don't see any reason why that should not be done. 4507. On what did the other trustees base their opposition to your scheme ? — They based it mainly upon this, that we were proposing to take the money of General Anderson, which was left to educate the poor, and to establish with it a grand school for educating the rich ; and Mr. Sheriff Smith and I were pelted with letters in the newspapers, as well as with speeches in the presbytery of Elgin and other places, upon our schemes of confiscation, and were called all manner of hard names upon the subject. 4508. Did any of the opposition admit that the School of Industry was a mischievous institution, or was unsatisfactory in its working ? — I don't think they did. So far as my recollection serves me, they did not say more about it than they could help. 4509. In the report of the proceedings one of them is stated to have said that he considered the name was a misnomer and the school a failure. Do you know about that ? — Yes ; I believe one of them did say something of that sort. But the fact is, that while we wished to include the poor, we certainly did not propose to exclude the rich from getting the benefit of any education that was going, on paying a fair price for it ; and my opinion in that respect was, that I did not want to see the classes in this country more separated than they are already. Besides this, I do not suppose the poorer classes could send forward pupils in sufficient numbers to occupy a staff of masters for the higher branches if the children of the middle classes were excluded. 4510. In devolving the selection of the poor children upon the kirk- sessions, was that confined to the kirk-sessions of the Established Church ? —Yes. 4511. Then were not poor children from other denominations, such as the Free Church, admitted to the benefits of the institution ? — I cannot say as to that, but the matter was left entirely in the hands of the Established Church kirk-sessions. 4512. Do the teachers belong to the* Established Church? — Yes; I think they have always done so. 4513. Is that by the statutes of the governors? — I don't think that the three clerical trustees who belong to the Established Church would be very likely to put another man in. The present house-governor is a clergyman of the Established Church. 4514. Is it not provided in the statutes that the house-governor or MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 395 master, and the female teacher of the Free School shall be members of the Alexander Church of Scotland f — Yes. Cameron. 4515. Is there any provision made in the statutes for catechizing in the ' Shorter Catechism ? — It is stated in the statutes that he is to catechize the children and old persons and the servants on the truths of the Christian religion from such catechisms, besides the Assembly's Shorter Catechism, as the trustees may from time to time direct and appoint, or cause them to read portions of Scripture. I think there is at least one hour a day devoted to religious instruction. 4516. In your scheme, in instituting bursaries for the county of Elgin, did you propose to confine them to the poor children who were educated iu the parish schools by the trust, or to open them generally ? — We proposed to confine them to children educated by the trust. The words we used were : ' Such bursaries to be competed for by the poor children educated on this foundation at the country schools, and to be tenable for three years.' 4517. The object of the bursaries was that the children who obtained them might be educated at the higher- class school which you proposed to establish in Elgin? — Exactly. And then if they displayed ability, the teaching they got at the higher-class school would enable them to go to the University ; my own idea upon that subject being, that under the new Education Bill, unless some such school as that is established for giving poor children such higher-class education and passing them on to higher-class schools, the education of poor children for the future under the new Act will be very much confined to the elementary branches, and that they will not have so much means of rising higher as they have had from the parish schools hitherto. 451 8. One of your reasons of opposition to the existing system is that it is really a means of relieving the poor rates ? — There is no doubt it does that. 4519. And that you disapprove of? — I do. I think the money should be spent in the way I suggested, and then it would all go to education, instead of relieving the poor rates of so much a year, as is done just now. 4520. On the same principle, I suppose you would object to the money being used to relieve the school rate in Elgin ? — You cannot establish any educational establishment for poor children without relieving the school rate ; and if you confine it to poor children, it must relieve the poor rate in spite of anything you can do. 4521. By the Act it is provided that the education of pauper children shall be paid out of the poor rate? — Yes ; and if you have a free school beside the other, you relieve the poor rate to the extent that the children are educated there. You cannot help doing that ; but our great objection to the system was, that the salaries of the teachers in the Free School, where 300 children are educated, only amounted to £120 a year. That, with £30 expended upon the books, made it £ 1 50 ; and the whole of the rest of the money, with the exception of such a proportion of it as might be chargeable against the Free School for the use of the building, playground, management, and the like, was spent on maintaining the ten old people and fifty children who were in the hospital. Now, the ten old people, five men and five women, represented, say, ten families with five children each of the poorest class of the community, and upon these people we were spending about £1500 a year. 4522. Had you not some proposal to make provision for evening classes for those who could not attend during the day, and especially for educa- tion in the branches recommended by the Science and Art Department? — Yes ; that was part of the details of the scheme which I did not care about troubling the Commission with. 396 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander 4523. Is there a demand for that in Elgin ? — There is no teaching of Cameron, the kind in Elgin. 4524. But you have reason to believe that it would be taken advantage of if it were instituted ? — I have no doubt it would. 4525. Mr. Parker. — Did I understand you to say that there has never been any parish school in Elgin ? — There never has been. 4526. Is that in consequence of its being a burgh? — I suppose so. There are other burghs in the same situation. 4527. But there has been a burgh school or academy there, has there not ? — There has been a burgh school there for many years. 4528. Is it well endowed ? — Not very well. I should say the outside of the endowment is from £3000 to £4000, consisting of property in the hands of the Town Council. 4529. Is there any payment made to that school from the common good? — I don't think there is anything paid to it from the common good, because the rent of the lands which have been left a century or two ago for the express purpose of maintaining that school is now quite equal to anything that is paid to the teachers of the Academy. 4530. So that under the new Education Act there would be no burden on the common good ? — I don't think there would. 4531. Are the buildings of the Academy in good condition, and suitable for the purpose ? — They are not ; they are very much in want of renewal. 4532. Are there two separate buildings belonging to General Anderson's trust ? — No ; they are all in one block. There is a separate entrance to the Free School ; and about five or six years ago the trustees acquired an additional piece of ground, adjoining the institution, of about three acres, which they had enclosed and turned into a playground for the boys attending both the Free and the School of Industry. Of course that is a great boon, because the playground was very limited before; in fact, there was scarcely anything that could be called a playground. 4533. The building is a good substantial one, is it not? — It is a very good substantial building, and quite modern, having been erected about 1832. 4534. And standing in a kind of park ? — It stands just in the very outskirts. There is only a single house or two built beyond. 4535. The resolutions you have mentioned were only submitted, they were not passed by the trustees ? — No ; they were rejected. I now produce a report of the discussion which took place on the occasion, which shows that the resolutions were rejected by the votes of Drs. Wyllie and Mackie and Mr. Mackie, Sheriff Smith and I only being in their favour. 4536. There was some negotiation, was there not, with the landward parishes about their claims? — Merely in the way of discussion. There was no formal negotiation. 4537. So far as that went, was it carried on by the minority alone or by the whole body of trustees ? — It was carried on chiefly during the discussions that took place in the newspapers and the discussions when the trustees met. We heard what they were saying, and we said we were quite willing to modify our proposal. We also, if they could not get the gentlemen representing the country parishes to agree to anything, sug- gested the alternative proposal of arbitration. 4538. From whom did the proposal come that £27, 10s. should be assigned to each parish ? Was it from some of the parish ministers ? — It came from Dr. Mackie of Alves, the moderator of the presbytery. He was the person who put it at that sum. 4539. Did he propose an equal sum to each, irrespective of their popula- tion? — It was to be £27, 10s. for each child; I think he put it so that a parish with two children should get £55. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 397 4540. The number of children at present coming from each parish ^®**^ r depends upon an arrangement made many years ago according to the . population ? — Yes ; many years ago. But the arrangement with regard to the number was, I believe, revised after the census of 1861. 4541. And it has not been altered since to suit change in the popula- tion? — No; it has not been altered since the census of 1861. 4542. Did it appear what use would be made of the £27, 10s. in each parish if it were paid over to them? — No ; they did not give us any in- formation upon that point. 4543. Did they seem to consider that it was applicable in relief of the rates in each parish, or that the parish would be bound to spend it upon education ? — They never admitted that it was in relief of the rate, and some of them said they did not select children who would be chargeable to the rates. 4544. Do you know how children in these landward parishes receive instruction at present who cannot afford to pay for it 1 Is it out of the rates, or by the schoolmaster himself giving the instruction without charging any fee f — If the parents of the children are upon the poors' roll, then the parochial boards pay the fees of the children ; but the boards, so far as I am aware, do not pay the fees of children whose parents are not in themselves in receipt of parochial relief. 4545. Do you happen to know whether the schoolmasters in your county are much in the habit of remitting fees to children in needy circum- stances ? — I believe they are very good in that way. Of course, as you are aware, the schoolmasters in our three northern counties, Aberdeen, Banff, and Moray, are a good deal better off than they are in many places through the Dick Bequest, and in Aberdeenshire through the Milne Be- quest in addition. That enables them to be a little more independent with regard to fees than men who have nothing but the fees and a small salary to depend upon. 4546. If bursaries were established at the higher school in Elgin, I understand it was proposed to limit them to the children who had been gratuitously educated at the primary schools ? — Yes. 4547. Was that to be continued in the case of bursaries to the universi- ties? Were these to be limited, or were they to be open? — We only pro- posed to have the bursaries in connection with the advanced school in Elgin, because there are so many bursaries at the University in Aberdeen that we thought it unnecessary to devote any of the funds of this institu- tion for that purpose. 4548. But the University bursaries would be open to all the children at the advanced school in Elgin ? — The University bursaries are open to everybody, rich and poor. There is no restriction upon them at present. We did not propose to establish any bursaries in con- nection with the University. What we proposed was, to establish twenty bursaries of £10 each, for the purpose of being employed in the maintenance of twenty children while attending the advanced school at Elgin. 4549. Then it is no part of the scheme at present to establish any bur- saries from the school at Elgin to the University? — No. 4550. You think that "is sufficiently provided for by the bursaries already existing ? — Yes. 4551. When you said that the Free School would continue outside the new School Board organization, I suppose you meant that the present trustees would wish to keep it outside ? I suppose it would rest with them whether it should or should not be included under the School Board regulations? — I suppose it would ; but I calculate that the three clergy- 398 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander men will not give up the control of that school to the School Board. At Cameron. leagt J don ' t think it j s at ull ]ikely< 4552. And I suppose, as a body, the trustees think it desirable to keep it entirely as a free school, and not to have any admixture of children paying fees ? — Yes. I don't think that would answer. 4553. Your own opinion is also to that effect? — Yes; my own opinion is that it would not answer. 4554. Up to what age do you think children should be educated at this free school ? — I should say fourteen probably, or fifteen ; but that is a question which in such schools regulates itself. The parents cannot afford to keep their children at school beyond a certain age ; and as soon as they are able to earn any kind of livelihood for themselves, they are sent away to do so. 4555. And the bursaries at the higher school, I suppose, would be for children educated in the Elgin Free School ? — They would be for those educated on the foundation. 4556. But for those educated in the Free School in the same way as for the children from the country parishes ? — The bursaries were only intended to be for the country districts, because the children in the Free School at Elgin are living with their parents. The words of the resolution on that point are that the bursaries were 4 to be competed for by the children educated on this foundation at the country schools.' It was not con- sidered that there should be anything of that kind for the parish of Elgin, because it had all the other advantages. 4557. Do you think it would be advantageous that a child of ability, on reaching the age of fourteen or fifteen, at the Free School in Elgin, should be eligible for a bursary at the higher school in Elgin? — That certainly would be an advantage ; and if the funds had permitted it, probably such bursaries might have been established. 4558. Without such aid it is hardly likely that the poor at the Free School could have their education continued ? — They would have got their education free. 4559. Up to that age? — Yes ; and then there was provision for their education at the advanced school. Resolution 9 says : ' Pupils in the Academy displaying superior ability and attention, not under ten years of age, and who shall have attended such school for not less than one year previously, may, on the selection of the master, be passed to the advanced school ; and the difference of fees beyond one shilling per quarter, as long as it may be certified from time to time by the rector that such pupil continues to display satisfactory ability and attention, if the parent or guardian of such pupil declare that his or her income does not exceed £40 a year, and that he or she is unable to pay the same, shall be defrayed from the funds of the institution.' That was part of our graduated system of education. We proposed that the children in the Academy, at which the fees were to be only one shilling a quarter, should be passed on by the certificate of the master to the advanced school, and get their education there free. We did not think it necessary to make any provision for passing from the Free School to the Academy, because we thought that any clever child of respectable parents would be able to pay one shilling per quarter, or, at all events, that it was not necessary to make special pro- vision for such a small thing as that. If there was a clever child to be passed on from the Free School to the Academy, and then from the Academy to the advanced school, he would, when at the advanced school, be put in a position to compete for a bursary, at the discretion of the trustees. 4560. Then the course would be this — for a poor child in Elgin to go first to the Free School ?— Yes. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 399 4561. Then he would need some private help to go from the Free School to the Academy, and remain some time there ? — Yes ; the one shilling per quarter. 4562. That must come from some private source? — That would come from his parents or from some private source. 4563. I am putting the case of a boy whose parents were not able to give that help ? — Then it would require to come from a private source or from the poor rates, or perhaps in future from the School Board. 4564. Then when he was at the Academy the way should be open for him to go to the University ? — Yes ; if he is at the advanced school, he can open the University doors for himself. 4565. Then there is that break in it as a graduated system of education, that a poor child from Elgin, not from a country district, would depend upon private help for one year's maintenance at the Academy before he could be qualified for a bursary ? — A child residing in the burgh of Elgin would have no advantage of the bursary ; but then it was thought that the effect of having the Free School at their doors, and the other advantages of the educational establishment which we proposed to set up, would compen- sate for that to the community as a whole. 4566. If there were any funds available, would it not be an advantage as a stimulus in the Free School that there should be some bursaries from it to the Academy ? — Probably there would ; and I should say that if the scheme had been worked out, probably so many bursaries would have been set aside for that purpose. It probably was a defect in our scheme that we did not provide for that. 4567. Another form of the same thing would be, if the Academy had funds sufficient to give a free education and books to any boy from the Free School who reached a certain standard ? — Yes ; that would have been a very proper thing to work out, I should think, in settling the details of the scheme. 4568. And if the children from all the landward schools were competing for these bursaries at the Academy, would you not think it on the whole preferable that children from the Free School in Elgin should compete at the same time, and in that way be compared with the children from the landward districts ? — I think, probably, it would only be fair to increase the number of bursaries, and let the children from the Free School in Elgin compete for them as well as the children from the country. 4569. So far as you know public opinion in Elgin, do you think it would be favourable to some such scheme as was proposed by you ? — I think the public opinion of the community in general was strongly in favour of the scheme. 4570. Both in the burgh of Elgin and in the country? — I cannot speak so well for the country districts, because you always had this element to take into consideration, that their clergy told them on all hands that we were proposing to confiscate a great benefit which they had hitherto enjoyed ; and I dare say many people in the country thought they were to lose a great advantage if the scheme had been carried out. But in the town of Elgin there was a decided majority in favour of the scheme, so far as I could judge. The Town Council of Elgin were unanimously in favour of it. 4571. Under the new Education Act there will be a legal obligation, both in the burgh and in the landward districts, to provide needy children with their school fees ? — Yes. 4572. Do you think the feeling would be that these old endowments should go in relief of those who are under the legal obligation, or that they should be employed to give something over and above the ordinary 400 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Alexander education ? — My feeling would be decidedly that they should go to provide Camerop. a higher description of education than is to be got in the elementary schools ; and unless a higher education is provided for the poor in some such way as that, I don't see how they are to get it now. 4573. Your impression is, that under the new Education Act there may be even less than hitherto of the higher education, unless these endowments are used for that purpose ? — That is my impression. We are told on all hands that the Government will not contribute any funds except to teach elementary education. Then if you want to go higher, unless by funds mortified (as the Scotch phrase is) for educational purposes, I don't see how you are to get it. It appears to me, and to those who hold the same opinions as I do, that with regard to funds left, perhaps fifty or a hundred years ago, for educating poor children in such a way as is proposed by General Anderson's will, — now that the Government have provided funds not only for educating but for maintaining children whose parents are unable to maintain and educate them, — a portion at any rate of these funds cannot be devoted to a better purpose than if applied for the higher education, and for enabling those children to get the advantage of a better class education than they would get under the elementary schools established by Government. We think that if men like General Anderson, who made this will, had known when making his will how things were to stand at the present day, he would, if he wished to educate poor children, have adopted, I don't say our plan, but at any rate a different plan from the one laid down in his will, which, if carried out strictly as it is laid down there, simply goes to do what the Government is now undertaking to do for the poorer classes of the community. 4574. Do you consider that by his will he meant to give the poor children something they could not otherwise obtain ? — Yes. 4575. And now they can otherwise obtain it, because there is a legal obligation to provide it for them ? — Yes ; and while we did not wish to take the funds for any purposes except the purposes of education, we think it is quite within the scope of the will, if authorized by Parliament, that we should apply these funds to a different kind of education, but still to education, and that proper provision should be made to see that the poor should get the full advantage. 4576. In applying the funds to higher education, you think it may be done so as not necessarily to give it to the higher class of society? — I think so ; but at the same time, if you establish schools where poor children can get education under some such scheme as ours — if you can establish a good school, and the people in the neighbourhood are willing to pay a fair price for the education there distributed, I don't see why you should hinder the children of those who are able to pay from coming and being taught in a place where poor children are taught for nothing, if their richer neighbours are ready to pay for it. In fact, without admitting the children of the middle classes there would not be sufficient occupation for the masters of the higher branches. Children of the middle class going to such a school and paying fees would rather be a support and advantage to it than otherwise. 4577. In the higher school you proposed, would you think it desirable to combine the more promising children of the humbler class with the children of the higher class ? — Decidedly I do. 4578. It was proposed, was it not, in your scheme, to allow boarders to a certain extent? — It was proposed that the rector should be able to take a few boarders. 4579. Did you anticipate that in that way you might perhaps get a man of higher qualifications to undertake the position of rector? — No doubt MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 401 that would be the result. With regard to that, I may mention that there Alexander is an institution at Fochabers by which a free education is given to every Camerou. child in the parish, whether his parents are rich or poor. 4580. Is that in the parish of Bellie ? — Yes ; it is established in the village of Fochabers and in the parish of Bellie. There the rector is allowed to take so many children to board with him, and I believe his house is generally full. 4581. The Chairman. — The Elgin Academy is a girls' school as well as a boys'? — Yes. 4582. In your scheme with regard to admitting to bursaries, did you propose to give equal advantages to both boys and girls ? — Yes. We did not propose to bring ourselves into collision with the Women's Rights Association in that way at all. Rev. Mr. Mackie, examined. 4583. The Chairman. — You are one of the trustees of the Elgin Institu- r ( > v . Mr. tion ? — I am, ex officio. Mackie. 4584. A full statement has been given in of the nature of the institution and of its administration, and of the proposals that were made for an alteration upon it two years ago, which, I understand, you opposed as one of the trustees ? — I did. 4585. Would you state generally whether you consider the institution, in its present state, is a sound and efficient one, or whether you propose to recommend any change in it? — I think it was sound and efficient, although there were certain changes which I would suggest ; but I found that I could not carry them out, because they were ultra vires of the trustees. 4586. What was the nature of these changes ? — I have brought certain documents along with me, in order that I might answer the questions satis- factorily, in which there is recorded the proposals I contemplated making at a meeting of the trustees. 4587. Was that before the resolutions were proposed by Provost Cameron and Sheriff Smith, or subsequent ? — Subsequent. 4588. Perhaps you had better, in the first place, state what your views are with regard to the institution, and then what changes you think desir- able in it ? — I may mention that my speech at that meeting was reported in the local papers, and Mr. Boyd of Edinburgh, the Master of the Merchant Company, wrote in the Scotsman newspaper a reply to what I had said. I took it upon me to write a letter to Mr. Boyd, which letter was pub- lished in the Elgin papers, and it contains the proposals I made, which are few, and which I may here enumerate. I stated that there are upwards of 200 children in Elgin attending no school, belonging to poor parents who are not able to educate them. Secondly, There are two or three schools in Elgin attended by the boys and girls of poor parents, and the teachers are miserably paid. Thirdly, Such boys attending the Industrial School as indicate capacity might be taught French and German : in mercantile pursuits these branches are now indispensable. Fourthly, Should any boy desire to enter the ministry, and appear to have the neces- sary gifts and graces, he might be trained for it. Fifthly, Should any scholar at the institution indicate great and decided talent, he might be pushed forward by a bursary. I also said : There is another matter of great importance connected, with education in Elgin which should attract attention. At present the children of tradesmen are educated at the Aca- demy and at the Trades' School. The fees bear heavily on a poor trades- 2 c 402 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. Mr. man with a large family ; and if one or two teachers could be added to the Mackie. s t a ff a t Anderson's Institution, who could educate children for limited fees, a great boon would be conferred on the industrial classes who are strug- gling to get their children taught without having recourse to charity schools where no fees are exacted. The fees at the Academy for the quarter, for reading, writing, grammar, and arithmetic, are 12s. 6d., and at the Trades' School the same branches cost 4s. These come hard on a tradesman who has got a few children to educate. These were the proposals I made in the letter which I addressed to Mr. Boyd, but I was advised by Mr. Patrick Fraser that they were ultra vires, and illegal. 4589. Do you mean ultra vires of the Endowed Schools Act? — Yes. 4590. But if the Legislature would take the subject up, they are pro- posals which you would recommend to this Commission ? — They are im- provements which I would recommend to this Commission. 4591. You would maintain the existing schools, — the Industrial School and the Free School ? — I would. 4592. And you would extend the Free School by the addition to it of the teachers that you have proposed ? — Yes. 4593. You said there were 200 children in Elgin attending no school ; is there not provision already made for these 200 children in your Free School? — No. There are 300 children attending the Free School, and we cannot take in more ; the school is full. 4594. Are there 200 children still wanting instruction whom you would admit without payment of fees, or moderate fees ? — I would admit them without payment of fees. 4595. In addition to the admission of a certain number with small fees ? —Yes. 4596. These proposals were made before the passing of the Education Act? — They were. 4597. Would your opinion be modified by what has taken place in con- nection with that Act ? — That question did not come across my mind. 4598. You are speaking merely of what your views were at the time when these questions were fully discussed in Elgin ? — Yes. 4599. I did not quite understand what you said with regard to the Academy and the fees being high there. Would you apply part of the funds of the institution towards the improvement of secondary instruction ? — If you mean by secondary instruction the instruction given in the Academy, I would not. 4600. You would, in fact, confine the benefits of this trust to the three specific objects to which it is now applied ? — Entirely ; such objects as were in the spirit of General Anderson's will. 4601. And you would maintain the Industrial School? — Out and out. 4602. Bringing in children to be supported and educated there ? — Yes. 4603. Would you add to their numbers in any way? — I am sorry to say that we are not able to add to their numbers. In fact we must reduce the numbers. 4604. Then your view as to the change which you said you were ready for would apply chiefly to enlarging the sphere of the Free School ? — Dis- tinctly. 4605. What would you say with regard to giving advantages to persons who proposed to enter the ministry ? — I would say that if any lad shows superior abilities, and has a desire to enter the ministry, some provision might be made for that lad ; and I may state that a case of that kind actually occurred. Mr. Cosmo Innes, who was at one time sheriff of our county, recommended a young man for whom he had a regard, and that lad was sent to the Elgin Academy, and his fees were paid by the trustees MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 403 of Anderson's Institution. He afterwards went to the University of Rov. Mr. Edinburgh, and was licensed to preach the gospel by the Presbytery of Macki e - Edinburgh, and I think he became an amanuensis to Mr. Cosmo Innes ; but unfortunately he died. 4606. Was his name Rennie? — Yes. 4607. These students, I suppose, would be selected by the trustees ? — Yes. 4608. And not by any competitive examination? — We would be guided entirely by the teacher or by the governor of the institution reporting upon these lads. 4609. Would you state, with regard to the scheme which was proposed by Provost Cameron, the principal objections that you have to the dif- ferent proposals? — I objected out and out to Provost Cameron's proposi- tion, because his proposals were beyond the scope of the Act. General Anderson's intention was to benefit, in the first place, aged and indigent people, and in the next place, the children of the labouring classes. Pro- vost Cameron's scheme, generally speaking, is to provide a higher class of education than can be got in Elgin for those who desire such education. Then I was of opinion that General Anderson's trustees have no power of expending any part of their funds in supporting existing schools, or in establishing additional schools in localities at a distance from the institu- tion ; but such objects I maintain are within ' the spirit of the General's will, and such are the kind of objects for which a Provisional Order might be properly asked and rightly granted. That you may follow what I say on that point, I may explain that for these 200 destitute children I should like very much if a school had been built at another part of the town of Elgin. 4610. For destitute children ? — Yes ; only for destitute children. But I was told that that could not be done. In fact, I was advised by Mr. Patrick Fraser that it was illegal, and that we could not do it. 4611. Under the Endowed Schools Act? — Yes ; under that Act. 4612. Would you have applied part of the funds that are now given to the Industrial School to establish a new school in another part of Elgin ? — I would have given part of the funds of the trust for that purpose. 4613. You would not apply part of the funds that are now applied to the existing objects ? You would only have done so in the case of there being a surplus ? — Yes ; and there will be a surplus some day, because there are one or two annuitants, the funds paid to whom will, when these annuitants die, come to the institution. 4614. Would you state what the investment of the funds is? — I think the present investment of the funds is about £1800 in landed security. 4615. That is to say in heritable bonds? — Yes. 4616. How would that be increased ? — I think I am stating what is correct when I say at this moment there is £200 a year paid to a relative of the late General Anderson, and on her decease these funds will revert to the trustees of General Anderson's Institution. 4617. Then it is not from any increase in the sums actually invested that you expect that addition to the funds ? — No. 4618. Mr. Parker. — That annuity does not appear in the annual dis- charge for the year 1872? — It does not; but I know that she gets it annually. 4619. Probably the trustees have invested what was free for the pur- poses of the school, and they have retained the £200 out of funds in the hands of the executors up to this time? — I cannot say how that stands, but I understand it was, before I was a trustee, invested in Consols. 4620. The capital is £44,000, invested at 1 per (-(Mil. in landed security, 404 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. Mr. and yields £1776? — Yes; but whether the £200 is paid out of that Mackie. or n0 £ j s a q ues ti 0 n I cannot answer. 4621. Do you know what was the free residue left for the income of the school? — I do not. 4622. There is another return which makes the income £1884 on 31st May 1872, and there is a note by the secretary of the institution to the effect that the funds of the three objects of the institution are blended together, and cannot very well be distinguished ? — Yes. In replying to the chairman's question, I had in view that the £200 would by and by come into our possession, and that we would be enabled to do more good by building a school at the west end of the town. 4623. The Chairman. — You have no doubt that there is that £200 ?— None. 4624. With regard to the School of Industry, you are desirous to maintain it? — Yes. 4625. In the report of the discussion which you have produced, you are reported to have said that you were not an uncompromising advocate for the maintenance of the School of Industry in its present form ? — It was Dr. Mackie who said that. There are two Mackies in the presby- tery. 4626. Then you do not agree with Dr. Mackie in that? — I do not. 4627. You think the School of Industry in itself good, and that it ought to be maintained ? — I not only think it should be maintained, but that it does incalculable good. 4628. Mr. Sellar. — I think Dr. Mackie states that the School of Industry is a misnomer and a failure : you don't agree with that ? — With regard to that, since you have put the question to me, here is my answer : Dr. Mackie of Alves states that the word 4 industrial ' is a misnomer as applied to the School of Industry. My answer to that is this : The school was industrial; its object was to promote, to teach, and to produce industry in all the pupils ; and if that purpose were accomplished, it was no disparagement to say that some other or collateral object should not be so fully maintained. 4629. The Chairman. — I wish to ask you as a trustee, with reference to a proposal that had been made for an alteration in the school. Dr. Mackie said that attempts had been made by the trustees to remedy this failure, and to make the school in reality what it is in name ; but these experiments all failed, and after a season were abandoned : would you state what these proposals were ? — I will. Mr. Innes, when he was sheriff, proposed that some of the boys should be taught tailoring, and others should be taught shoemaking, and the trustees entered heartily into his proposition. There happened to be a vacancy in the office of head master at that time ; they left the appointment to him, and he appointed a man from Edinburgh for the purpose. This was carried on for several years, but it proved a failure ; and we were recommended by the parties who had the management of the boys in tailoring and shoemaking to drop it, and hence it ceased. 4630. Dr. Mackie is further reported to have said that he was firmly persuaded that much greater advantage to several parishes might be derived from the funds than is presently the case. Do you agree with him in that ? — That may be said about anything in this world. 4631. But with regard to this particular case, you don't think that any greater advantage could be derived by the parishes from the funds than by their present application ? — I don't think there could. 4632. And if the parishes desired that, instead of supporting a certain number of boys in what has been reported to us as a rather expensive MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 405 manner, they would rather have the funds applied in the parishes themselves Eev. Mr. in a different manner, you would not agree with them in that ? — I would Mackie. not. 4633. Do you consider that in the school the children are not subject to any of the disadvantages which in hospitals generally are said to attach to the system ? — I am not acquainted with any schools, unless by report, which are conducted on that system except the Anderson Institution. 4634. You don't think that the children had better be boarded out than kept together in the school? — I think they are better where they are than boarded out. 4635. Then yon are not of opinion that these children would derive advantage from being educated with a number of other boys, all in the same school, if it could be so arranged consistently with the objects of the trust? — If it could be so arranged consistently with the objects of the trust, I would have no objection that they should get education in the Free School along with the children who are educated in that school. 4636. Do you think that would be a desirable object to attain, or would you rather maintain the system as it is ? — A good deal could be said on both sides of that question. 4637. Do you think it is a fair subject for consideration? — I do. 4638. And you think that might be carried out, provided the funds of the institution were applied to the same children as are described in the original deed of the founder ? — Yes. 4639. You have not heard that, in the parishes of the county who con- sider that they have a claim for educating their children, there has been any desire to have the funds applied in any other way than the present ? — No. There may have been one or two individual clergymen who have countenanced — I know of one case, at any rate, of a clergyman who countenanced Provost Cameron in his scheme ; but that feeling is confined to one or two. 4640. When you are speaking of clergymen, you are speaking merely of the opinions of the clergy on that matter ? — Yes ; merely of the clergy. 4641. The clergy are the main upholders of the present system as it stands ? — Not only the clergy, but, I believe, the whole community are the main upholders of the present system, with a few exceptions. 4642. Do you mean the community of the whole county, including the burgh of Elgin ?— Yes. 4643. We have been informed that there is a strong feeling in the burgh of Elgin in favour of a change ? — Then you have been misinformed. I believe that if the feeling of the community was tested at this moment, the overpowering majority would be fatal to the scheme of Provost Cameron and Sheriff Smith. 4644. Then you have no suggestion to make for a change? — None, beyond what I have already made. 4645. That is, that if there are funds available, they might be applied in establishing a new school ?— Quite so. 4646. But you would rather defer any final opinion upon that until you see what action is taken by the new School Board ? — Yes ; I would be very much guided by that. 4647. Mr. Sellar. — You say there are 200 children in Elgin attending no school? — Yes. 4648. Were there any vacancies in the Free School this year? — There were. 4649. How many? — At this moment I believe there were ten. 4650. At what time of the year do you fill up such vacancies? — We do so monthly. 406 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Mr. 4651. Have there been more applications than vacancies? — There have Mackie. jj een f ewer applications than vacancies this year. 4652. And are there still these 200 children in Elgin attending no school ? — As to that, of course, I cannot at this moment say. I got the informa- tion that I have communicated to you from an eminent authority. I may add that there is a school at the west end of the town, supported by a number of gentlemen and ladies in the town, which school Provost Cameron takes an active part in superintending ; and at the last meeting but one of the trustees, I said to him : f There are ten vacancies at the Free School ; why don't you draft some of the boys and girls from the school you are maintaining at the west end of the town to us V But at the last meeting there were still vacancies, and they were not filled up. In fact, there were no applications. 4653. So that there is provision for these 200 children, or at least for a portion of them, if they choose to apply for it ? — Yes ; now there is. 4654. The numbers at the Industrial School are very small ? — Yes ; very small. 4655. And you propose to diminish them ? — Yes. 4656. Is there any system of examination there ? — Yes. 4657. What is it? — The trustees, with others, examine the Industrial School once a year. 4658. Do they examine it as a presbyterial examination? — Not as a presbyterial examination, but as members of the board. 4659. Is it after the model of the presbyterial examinations ? — Yes. 4660. There is no independent educational examiner who examines it regularly ? — No. 4661. Except Rennie, whom you have mentioned, have there been any pupils who in after life have distinguished themselves ? — I am very glad you have put that question to me. At this moment there is a mini- ster of the gospel in Africa, belonging to the Congregational body, who got his whole education at Anderson's Institution ; and I am credibly in- formed that whilst he was there he held sceptical views. 4662. Was he in the School of Industry? — He was ; but in consequence of the instructions of the house governor, and his blameless life, he was converted to the truth of Christianity. This gentleman has at this time published a book which has created a great sensation as to Africa, and he has been employed by the Congregational body for several years. There is also a young man in Edinburgh named Rhind, — I don't know if he is an S.S.C., — who was instructed at the School of Industry. Then I know that since the school was founded there are at least thirty who were edu- cated there who are engaged in commercial life, as clerks and school- masters, and the remainder are tradesmen and artisans ; and it has been ascertained that of the boys whe left the School of Industry, not ten per cent, of them have been ill conducted in after life, and of the girls not five per cent. The very first boy who was admitted to the institution was from Garmouth. He happened to be home two years ago from India, where he has made a competency. He told me that his success in life was very much to be attributed to the education which he had received at the School of Industry in Anderson's Institution. 4663. With regard to the proposals by Provost Cameron and Sheriff Smith for the education of poor children in country parishes, it was objected, was it not, that their scheme confiscated the money that belonged to the country parishes with respect to these children ? — Yes. 4664. Do you concur in that view? — Most distinctly. 4665. Do you consider that that money was gifted to the country parishes in accordance with the testator's will ? — Yes. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 407 4666. Were not the words of the will that the children were to he taken r 6V . Mr. from the county of Elgin ? — They were to be from the town and county Maokie. of Elgin. 4667. And they are selected by the parishes? — The trustees at that time thought the best plan would be to apportion the funds, and they took a child, I think, from every 900 of the population. 4668. Who select the children in the parishes ? — The kirk-session have always selected the children. 4669. Which kirk-session ? — The session of the Established Church. 4670. Has the selection been confined to the Established Church kirk-session ? — Entirely ; because you must bear in mind that the kirk- session, before the passing of the Poor Law Amendment Act, had the be- stowing of alms upon the poor ; and the trustees thought they were the best persons to recommend children for admission to the school. They have not the absolute nomination. They must send us more than one name. 4671. You said you had not considered the provisions of the Education Act with regard to this matter ?-^I have not. 4672. If any provision was made in that Act for the elementary educa- tion of all the children in Elgin, both town and county, would you be still inclined to maintain the Hospital and the Free School on their present footing ? — Most distinctly. 4673. Do you think the majority of the inhabitants of the town and county would also be prepared to keep the existing state of things exactly on its present footing ? — It is impossible for me to answer that question ; but I know the feeling is very strong in the town of Elgin against the scheme of Provost Cameron and Sheriff Smith. As to the county I cannot say. 4674. But you yourself would be inclined to maintain the status quo, even if the provisions of the Education Act provided education for the whole county and town? — Most distinctly I would. 4675. Mr. Parker. — When there are vacancies for each landward parish, do you know whether there are usually several applicants for admission? — In some cases there are many applicants, but it happens occasionally that there is not more than one. When there is not more than one appli- cant, we remit again to the kirk-session to send us a selection. 4676. And on the whole, are there always children forthcoming who are willing to leave their native parishes to come to Elgin and live in the hospital ? — Yes. 4677. Do you think it advantageous for a child to go away from its relatives in that way, and live in a different place in an hospital ? — I do, with regard to the children of such parents, because they derive advan- tages at the hospital of Anderson's Institution which they cannot get at home. 4678. Do you not think it would be preferable to assist them at home with their education ? — I would rather keep the plan that is in operation than give the money to assist them at home. 4679. The Established kirk-session has the choice of these children. Do you know whether they limit themselves entirely to their own congrega- tions ? — They do not ; and I wish to say that it is the practice of some of the clergymen to state to the Dissenting ministers that there are such vacan- cies, and to request them to make intimation from the pulpit in their re- spective places of worship that such vacancies have occurred, and to recommend parties to the kirk-sessions to be brought before the trustees of Anderson's Institution. There is due publicity given, and the children of Dissenters, if eligible, have, I may say, the same status quo as children of the Established Church. 408 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Mr. 4680. I think you mentioned that one boy from the hospital had become Mackie. a Congregationalist minister f — Yes ; Mr. Mackenzie, who has written a book on Africa the other day. 4681. Do you think that gratuitous education is itself desirable when a parent can with a little economy pay fees ? — If a parent can with economy pay fees, I should prefer that they paid the fees ; but how many hundred cases there are where the parents are unable to pay fees ! At this moment, at the Madras College at St. Andrews, — at all events that was the case in my time, — there were a great number of children receiving gratuitous education. General Anderson himself got gratuitous education in Elgin. 4682. Do you think it desirable, in any case, to admit children upon the payment of lower fees than the ordinary fees of the school ? — I think it is desirable to admit them on the payment of low fees ; but there are hundreds who are unable to pay even these low fees. 4683. When you said that there were still 200 children requiring free education in Elgin, you spoke not exactly of the present time? — Not exactly of the present time. I may mention that I got that information from a person who had made diligent inquiries on the subject. 4684. You said there are two schools in Elgin where the teachers are insufficiently paid. Which schools are those ? — There is a school at the west end, of which I spoke some time ago, — the Ragged School, as it is called, — where the teacher, I think, is very insufficiently paid. 4685. Would you think it a proper application of the funds of the trust, if you had legal powers, to add to the teacher's salary there? — Yes, certainly. I would not only aid the teacher's salary, but I would build a new school-house, or improve the existing school. 4686. What other school is there in Elgin where the teacher is insuffi- ciently paid ? — I think the teacher of the Trades School is insufficiently paid. 4687. Do you think it of great importance in schools that the teachers should be liberally paid ? — Distinctly. 4688. You think that would be a very proper way of applying the funds of endowed schools ? — I would think so. 4689. In the Industrial School you said you would like to see French and German taught ? — I would. 4690. These branches are not taught there at present? — They are not. 4691. And you think that for setting the children out in life it would be an advantage if they were taught these branches ? — I think so, for those who showed ability. 4692. When you spoke of bursaries for outside education, did you refer to bursaries for the University ? — Distinctly. 4693. Or bursaries to some secondary school? — I would have both, if you mean by a secondary school such a school as the Academy. 4694. Then you would, according to the abilities of the boys, pass them on to the Academy, or even the University ? — Yes. 4695. I understand there are a good many bursaries already procurable at the University, if a boy is brought far enough forward to compete for them ? — Yes, at Aberdeen, but not at Glasgow. 4696. But I suppose that for a poor boy from Elgin, Aberdeen Uni- versity would be the natural place to look to ? — There are those who have gone to Glasgow in preference to Aberdeen, and there are those who have also gone to St. Andrews. 4697. You would think bursaries to the Elgin Academy from the In- dustrial School or the Free School of Elgin a fair application of the funds, if there were legal powers to apply them in that way ? — I would think it a fair thing for the trustees to pay the fees of boys of ability, and MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 409 allow them to get instruction in Latin and Greek and mathematics at the Rev. Mr. Elgin Academy, but still remaining in the house. If that could be done, Mackl 6, 1 think it would be a matter of considerable importance. 4698. But you think the boys should still be boarded in the hospital ? — Yes. 4699. And receive their books free, I suppose? — Of course. 4700. Would you object, in lieu of their boarding in the hospital, to their receiving a sum towards their board and maintenance outside? — The system in the hospital is entirely a family system, and the advantages of it to the boys are incalculable, and greatly superior to the advantages of a boy living in a private house, or boarded out with people in that condi- tion of life. There is an attention paid to religion and to morality in the hospital which they would not have in a private house. 4701. What staff is there at the hospital ? Are there several resident teachers ? — No ; there is only one master. 4702. Is there a matron? — There is a matron, and there is a teacher for the female department. 4703. Are these three persons able to make it sufficiently like a family, so as to give the advantages you speak of ? — I think so. 4704. What is the number of boys and girls in the hospital? — Fifty. 4705. Have they much liberty to go outside the house? — They have quite enough, — just as much as I had when I was a boy at St. Andrews, or that anybody would have who was boarded with the late Mr. Smeaton, or any of the masters there. 4706. Do they ever get home? — Yes; they get home three weeks in midsummer, and also at another part of the year. 4707. Then, so far, the hospital is just like a boarding school ? — It is more like a boarding school than anything else. 4708. You also spoke of cheapening the education at the Free School for small tradesmen and people of that class ? — I think what I said was, that for the children of the labouring classes who are not able to pay the fees, and for the poor tradesmen with large families, if one or two teachers could be added to the staff at Anderson's Institution, who could educate children for limited fees, a great boon would be conferred on the industrial classes who are struggling to get their children taught withoutr having recourse to charity schools where no fees are exacted. If that could be done, I think it would be a mighty boon. 4709. When you say at Anderson's Institution, that is the same thing with the Free School ? — Yes. 4710. Is the hospital in the same building? — They are all connected together, but the children who go to the Free School enter by a separate avenue. 4711. Then in that case the children paying a small fee would, I sup- pose, associate with the children from the hospital ? — Yes, they would ; in their playground. 4712. And they would be in the same classes according to their abili- ties ? — They would not be in the same classes as the children in the hospi- tal. The children in the hospital are taught by a separate master altogether. The children in the I'ree School are taught by Mr. Brown, who was at the Normal School here ; but the children all meet together in the playground. 4713. Would it not rather tend to economy, and have other advantages, if they mixed in the class as well as in the playground ? — The only answer I can give to that question is just this, that that is not what General Anderson intended. 4714. Does it clearly appear from his will that he objected to the 410 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Mr. children in his hospital being mingled with other children? — No, he did Mackie. no ^ gav t na t . k u {. ne savg distinctly that one of the purposes of the trust is to establish ' a school of industry for the support, maintenance, clothing, and education of male and female children of the labouring classes of society whose parents are unable to maintain and educate them, and for placing or putting out the said children, when fit to be so, as apprentices to some trade or occupation, or employing them in such a manner as may enable them to earn a livelihood by their lawful industry, and make them useful members of society.' Now that is the distinct object which he has in view, and we have tried to carry that out. When you ask me whether it would not be better that these children should be merged in the Free School, then my reply is simply this, — that that is not what General Anderson wished. 4715. I mean at present only to ask this question : Even if you retain the hospital, would it not be better economy that the children living in the hospital should attend the same classes as the children in the Free School, being close at hand ? — I don't understand what you mean by better economy. 4716. I mean, would you not be able to pay the masters better, if one master undertook the management of all the children instead of having separate arrangements for each school? — The master of the School of Industry is, I think, very inadequately rewarded ; he has only £55 per annum. The master of the Free School, and his wife, who teaches the girls sewing, knitting, etc., have £90 and a free house. 4717. Would you not be able to increase the salaries if the children were all taught together? — I would just repeat again that the advantages which these children derive in the School of Industry from being subjected to the training which they get there, and having family worship morning and evening, are, in my opinion, invaluable. 4718. But while retaining these advantages, do you see any objection to the children going for their higher instruction to the same classes as the children paying small fees in the Free School? — They cannot get higher instruction in the Free School, because in it matters which take up the attention of the children are what may be called the three It's. 4719. But you would like to see French and German taught in the Free School? — Not only in the Free School, but in the School of Industry. 4720. And by the same master ? — Yes. There is a gentleman at the Academy who teaches French and German ; and if we could get him to teach perhaps about three hours a week in the Free School and the School of Industry, I think that would be a matter which would be con- ducive to the best interests of the boys. 4721. Would you add any other subjects besides French and German to those at present taught in the Free School ?— Yes ; botany. 4722. So far as there may be higher instruction given at the Free School, you see no objection to the children in the hospital being taught together with the others ?— Certainly not. 4723. The fees of the Trades' School, you said, were 4s. per quarter? —Yes. 4724. Would that not be considered in Elgin a fee quite within the reach of parents who are in regular employment ? — No. In fact, at this moment there are many of them who can hardly get the necessaries of life. With reference to the question which Mr. Sellar put to me as to whether there were not applicants for the vacancies in Anderson's Institution, I may mention that the thought struck me the other day that the reason for that was partly the high price of provisions, and because the children have not shoes with which to come to the school. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 411 4725. Of course the School Board will have compulsory powers, and R*v. Mr. will see that the children come to the school ? — I believe they will. Mackie. 4726. I suppose you hold most of your opinions open to some modifi- cation after experience of the working of the School Board ? — Of course ; and I said so to Mr. Sellar. 4727. Is there a good attendance at the Academy now ? — Yes ; it is very much improved, 4728. Are the fees there complained of as being too high ? — They are. 4729. Is there at present anything like bursaries at the Academy for children coming from the elementary schools? — No ; but the kirk-sessiou at Elgin have certain bursaries, which they give to parties who come either to attend the Academy or attend the Trades' School. I think they amount to £4 a year. 4730. That would be sufficient to pay the whole school fees ? — Yes ; merely the school fees. 4731. General Anderson's intentions, so far as they were educational, were generally to provide elementary education for poor children? — General Anderson's intentions, of course, can only be known from his will. 4732. If the elementary education which he contemplated should be otherwise provided, do you not think it would be reasonable to employ the funds left by him in giving higher education also to the poorer classes ? — No, I would not. I would say that was a species of communism. 4733. If a testator intends to leave that which is not otherwise provided, and after the lapse of years that is otherwise provided, is it not reasonable to take the nearest thing which is not provided of the same kind ? — My reply to that is very clear. We have an hospital in Elgin called Gray's Hospital, which was endowed by the late Dr. Gray with £20,000. It was intended for the sick poor of the town of Elgin and the county of Moray. Would you say that, after the poor law of 1845 came into operation, these funds should be taken from that hospital and merged into the poor law funds of the several parishes ? The Poor Law Board provides for the sick poor of the county, and has to pay for medicines and for doctors ; but because that is so, are you prepared to upset Dr. Gray's Institution, and subvert what he intended, and apply the funds to the purpose of buying medicines and paying the salaries of doctors all up and down the county, and thus relieving the poor rates ? 4734. Would you not think it reasonable in such an institution rather to provide comforts beyond what the poor rates provide? — But the poor rate is also bound to provide for their comforts. The parochial boards are bound to provide doctors, and also to provide wines and every kind of food. 4735. Do you think it desirable that boys belonging to the humbler class who have special abilities should be carried on to higher education ? — Yes ; and I say so most distinctly. 4736. Are you aware that in the new Education Act there is no power of rating or taxing for such a purpose? — I must just say that I really have not studied the Act as, perhaps, I ought to have done, and I am not able to answer that question. 4737. But assuming that there is no power either to rate or to tax the community for higher education, do you not think that endowments which have hitherto been for lower education may be fairly extended to give the humbler classes higher education? — I just reply to that by stating that I look upon it as communism. 4738. Mr. Lancaster. — Why ? — A gentleman has left a certain sum of money for a certain purpose, and you divert it to a purpose he never con- templated. If that is not communism, I don't know what it is. You might 412 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. Mr. as well take the property of Lord Fife and apply it to some other Mackie. purpose. 4739. So that any deviation from the purposes set forth in a founder's will, under whatever change of circumstances, is communism? — I don't say that. I said that what was proposed in the question put to me by Mr. Parker was communistic. If I can carry out the purposes of General Anderson's Trust by application to the Legislature to get an additional school for the poor of the community of Elgin, I would say that that was carrying out the trust ; but to apply for the benefit of the rich the funds that were meant for the humbler classes, I would say again that that, in my opinion, is unmitigated communism. 4740. I don't think that was what Mr. Parker meant to propose. There is no proposal to apply the funds provided for the poor for the education of the rich ; but the question I put to you was : Do you think that any departure from the terms of a founder's will is to be put upon the same level, in point of equity or of law, as taking away a piece of property from Lord Fife? — If you take away the funds that were meant for the humbler classes, and apply them to the education of the rich in the town of Elgin, I would say that that, in my opinion, was the very same as taking away a part of Lord Fife's property. 4741. Try to consider the question I am putting. I said nothing about the purposes for which the deviation was to be made, whether it was from the poor to the rich, or from the rich to the poor. The question was a general one : Would any deviation from the will of a founder, in the application of his funds to purposes which he has not ex- pressly stated, be upon the same footing as taking away a piece of Lord Fife's property ? — 1 would just say that if the purpose be to turn the in- stitution into a ragged school, that would be more in the spirit of General Anderson's bequest than what Mr. Parker proposed to me. 4742. Is that the only answer you can give to my question? — Yes. 4743. Mr. Parker. — What I proposed was, not to devote the funds to the education of the higher classes, or of the richer classes, but to higher education, because the lower education was otherwise provided for? — Then I would just say that, so far as I am concerned, I would, toto ccelo, oppose any such proposition. 4744. You would rather that the funds went to prevent the ratepayers of Elgin from being rated as they are elsewhere for elementary education ? — No. Let the ratepayers be rated for education, but don't divert the funds that were given for other purposes for that object. 4745. But if the ratepayers are rated according to the Education Act for elementary education, we should have sufficient funds for elementary education, and this bequest would be set at liberty ?— But I have said more than once that at Anderson's Institution there are advantages to be got in the hospital that could not be got at the houses of the parents of . children in that station in life, and these are advantages of the most incalculable importance. 4746. Mr. Lancaster. — Are you aware that in the Education Act there is provision made for the payment of fees for children whose parents are unable to pay them? — I am sorry to say that, not having read the Education Act, I am not familiar with it. 4747. Assuming that it is so, — that provision is made for paying out of the rates the fees of children whose parents are unable to pay them, — would that in any way modify your opinion as to the utility of gratuitous education ? — No. 4748. You still think that gratuitous education would be an advisable thing ? — I do. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 413 4749. But you think that a founder who provided for gratuitous Rev. Mr. education when no such power of paying for people unable to pay for Macki e - themselves was in existence, provided for a very different state of matters from that which exists now ? — I am not very sure but what there was gratuitous education before this Act was passed. 4750. There was no power for paying children's fees out of the rates when the parents were unable to pay ? — No ; but did not heritors and kirk-sessions in hundreds of cases pay for education, and did not school- masters give it gratuitously ? 4751. I am not speaking of paupers— not of those on the poor roll, but simply of children whose parents are unable to pay. The new Act pro- vides for these people being provided for: does not that modify your opinion with regard to gratuitous education? — No; I just keep to the opinion that I expressed before. Rev. John Struthers, examined. 4752. The Chairman. — You are a trustee for Schawls Hospital at Rev. John Prestonpans? — I am. Strutters. 4753. We understand from the statements you have made that the trustees were anxious to take advantage of the Endowed Schools Act, and prepared a scheme for that purpose? — We did. 4754. But that scheme was refused? — Yes. 4755. Do you still think it of importance that there should be some change in the administration of the trust ? — Yes ; to the extent of en- abling us to take in day scholars. That is the main change we wish. 4756. And to board out? — Yes; and to board out such foundationers as we maintain. 4757. I understand the number of scholars at present is very limited? — The funds are limited. We have only recently introduced day scholars ; and as we cannot take in girls, there has been rather an aversion on the part of some people to send their boys, as they could not send their girls as well. 4758. Are these day scholars received on payment of fees ? — They are. 4759. The children who are received are children of the working classes? — They are children who might be attending the parish school, or some other school in the place. In fact, they all belong to the working classes. 4760. Is. there any limitation as to the districts from which the children are to be drawn? — Not in the original deed, but of course there is a limitation as to convenience for day scholars. 4761. But I am speaking of the foundationers? — No, there is no limi- tation. They may come from any place, and they come from all places in the kingdom. 4762. They are admitted on the ground of poverty ? — Yes. We re- quire to be satisfied that they are poor children. 4763. Have you many applications for admission ? — We have frequently many applications ; but of late, since the institution has been* in a sort of transition state, we have had fewer applications, because we have admitted fewer of late. We have some boys from Ireland and some from England, but the bulk come from the neighbourhood. 4764. And there are some boarders ? — We introduced a few boarders, as we had a smaller number of foundationers latterly than at one time. We had some spare beds, and we thought it would be advisable to bring in a few boarders, who would occupy these beds, and be a little stimulus 414 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. John to the education in the institution, because they would be all of rather a St ruthe rs. jitter class than the pauper children. 4765. In fact, you wish to make the institution of wider benefit, and to receive more pupils 1 — -Yes. 4766. With regard to the boarders, are they from the same class as the foundationers ? — No ; they are rather of a higher class necessarily, because they have to pay something. They have to pay £20 a year for education, bed, board, and washing. 4767. Are the payments made by their parents or from some charitable fund ?— By their parents or by others interested in the children. They pay at least £20 a year. 4768. Have you always kept up that price since the system was intro- duced ?— Yes, 4769. Are there always persons ready to take advantage of that? — Yes. 4770* Yours is an elementary school? — I would say it is both elemen- tary and secondary. The master teaches a little Latin and a little French, and can teach Greek and German. 4771. Is it the same education that is given at a parochial school? — Yes ; it is, in fact, just the same as a parish school. 4772. I understand that the number in the school has been lately decreased ? — Yes. 4773. Is that on a falling off in the funds? — It has been mainly from a falling off in the funds, which falling off has arisen, partly from the coal being largely worked out and producing less than it formerly did, and partly from the great increase of pauperism. Prestonpans is a very pecu- liar place as to poor rates ; and so heavy is the burden on the land, that in some instances so high as about £1 per acre is paid. Most of our revenues are from land, and in that way our funds have been very much lessened. 4774. I see in the accounts that the public burdens are put down as £200?— That is about the sum. 4775. Is any large proportion of that poor rate? — Yes; a large pro- portion of it is poor rate. And other burdens are pretty heavy also, for this reason, that Prestonpans, although a very small parish territorially, is a populous parish, and a great portion of the inhabitants are seafaring people. They earn their livelihood by their seafaring life, and they live in small, poor houses, many of which are only rented at scarcely over £2 a year ; and therefore there are a great many of the inhabitants who in no perceptible respect contribute to the maintenance of the poor in the place. 4776. The income of the hospital is, I understand, invested in land ? — A great part of it. 4777. How is the rest of it invested ? — In the public funds. 4778. But the land investment is not likely to increase in value? — I don't think so. 4779. Do you expect a falling off in the coal rents? — At the time when we applied for the Provisional Order we expected an early falling off, in- asmuch as the mining engineer, Mr. Geddes, thought the coal was scarcely worth working ; but the recent impulse given to coal-mining has rather improved the position of matters, and I think this year we shall probably have an increase of coal rent. At the same time it was substantially correct, as was represented in our petition, that we may expect the coal rent to fall off. 4780. Is that from the exhaustion of the mine ? — Yes. 4781. And though you are at present deriving a larger income, it is a MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 415 precarious one, which you cannot count on for many years ? — Yes. There Bev John are a number of questions that might be suggested as making it doubtful St ruthe r8, whether we might yet be able to increase the coal rental by mining sea- ward. We have a good deal of coal in the sea ; and if we chose to lay out a little money in order to get through a trap dyke, we would come to a large field under the Forth ; and if the present prosperity of the coal trade were to continue, we might be induced to run that risk. 4782. You stated in your scheme that by substituting a system of boarding out pupils, you would be able to provide for a larger number of out-door scholars ?— Yes. 4783. How is that ? Would you be able to board them out at less expense ? — We can board them out at a great deal less expense than is required to maintain them in the hospital, from the limited number we keep in the hospital. We have to maintain a master and matron and so many servants for eleven children ; and these children could be taken charge of quite easily outside, either with their relations or in the families of re- spectable working people. 4784. Then the saving would be in consequence of the small number of boys that you can maintain at present ? — Yes. 4785. It is not from there being any extravagance in the management ? —No. 4786. But you think that with the small institution it would be much better to have the boys boarded out ? — Yes. 4787. And then the rooms that would be available would answer for day instruction ? — We wished to get power, either to adapt these rooms for school-rooms, or, if it was thought advisable, to build schools nearer the mass of the population of the village ; and then we might feu out or lease the hospital buildings as a gentleman's residence. It is in a very good position, it is on a beautiful site, and is a capital house. 4788. With regard to the funds which would be available in that way, what would they amount to 1 Would you say £100 or £200 a year? — It was I who drew up the estimate, and the substance of the thing is stated there generally. As near as I can give it at this moment, the sum is somewhere under £200. Then we proposed still to retain five foundationers. I was rather disposed to have had no foundationers at all, but some of the trustees, Sir Alexander Grant amongst others, thought it better to keep the five in for the present ; and we proposed to take power, in the event of the trustees, at two consecutive meetings specially called, thinking proper to reduce the number below five, to reduce it below that number, or even to dispense with indoor boarders altogether. 4789. But you would still maintain the same principle of selection with regard to those who are to be admitted to the institution ? — Yes. 4790. You would not throw it open to competition? — We proposed to take in the children of the humbler classes, and the benefits of the foundation would be chiefly confined to those who showed merit in the school. 4791. That is to say, at the day school? — Yes; out of the day school we would select the foundationers. 4792. And you would select a certain number ? — Yes ; what we could afford to maintain. Then we proposed that these foundationers might get allowances to the extent of £20 or so, and that they might go to Edinburgh or anywhere else in order to get the higher class education. 4793. Mr. Parker. — Do you mean a capital sum of £20 ? — No ; £20 annually. 4794. Do you mean £20 a year while they remained at the school ? — No ; after they had shown merit in the school, and when they were going 416 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. John away somewhere else to advance themselves further, we would give them St rutne rs. £20 a year for a certain number of years — two, or three, or four years, as the case might be ; in fact, making these allowances a sort of bursaries. 4795. The Chairman. — Do you consider there is room in that neighbour- hood for a large day school of the kind you propose ? — Yes. There is plenty of room in the place for such a school to give elementary education, because there is a very great number of very poor people there. Preston- pans is a very old place and a very exhausted place. There were a num- ber of works there at one time, and a number of houses were erected ; but many of the works have fallen off, and the houses are now occupied by a large mass of poor people, principally fisher and colliery people, and it is only by giving them education very cheap that they can get their children educated at all. 4796. There is another hospital in your neighbourhood, called Stiell's Hospital ? — Yes. 4797. Does it provide for the same class of persons as Schaw's ? — The same class of children, but it is confined to children from Tranent parish in the first instance. Prestonpans has a reversionary right to send children to it, provided all the children that are needing education in Tranent parish are first provided for ; but we have never got any benefit from our reversion, as there has alwaj^s been a sufficient number from Tranent to forestall us. 4798. Have you ever considered the propriety of uniting the two in- stitutions together? — Yes. That was suggested to me, and there were some who thought it might be advisable, but I don't think it would. I don't see any gain that would be got by it, because it is mainly for elementary education that we wish to make provision, and this must be furnished near at hand. 4799. Did I not understand you to say that they are both for elemen- tary education ? — Yes. 4800. Then would not the two together combine to make a much more efficient school than if they were separate ? — Of course it might make a larger school, if you choose to make one school out of the two ; but there is sufficient population in Tranent to be made available for that purpose, if it was thought proper, out of Stiell's funds. I don't, however, see that that would be of much advantage to Prestonpans. What I mean is, that so far as higher education is concerned, it would be fully as convenient for children from Prestonpans to go to Edinburgh as to go to Tranent ; and I am quite sure they would prefer to go to Edinburgh and get education in some of the schools there, rather than to go to Stiell's Hospital. 4801. But for an elementary school such as yours is, and such as you contemplate in its extended form, might it not be made more efficient if the two places were combined together ? — It would be too far to send young children from Prestonpans up to Tranent to school. 4802. What will be the distance ! — It will be fully a mile from the two schools, and it will be nearly three miles from a considerable portion of Prestonpans parish. 4803. Is there as much population about you as about Tranent? — There are 2000 people in Prestonpans village, and there are about the same number of people in Tranent village. Then, to the east of Prestonpans, there is Cockenzie, where there are 1500 people ; and Schaw's Hospital is as conveniently situated for Cockenzie as Stiell's. We have several of our day scholars that come just now from Cockenzie to Schaw's Hospital, being partly influenced by the fact that the class of children there are more select than in Stiell's. 4804. Then, in your scheme, you would have no place for boarders MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 417 being brought in ? — No ; if we dispensed with the foundationers we would not. 4805. You would keep the foundationers as part of the institution, only boarding them out? — Yes. Of course we would have no public boarding-house as we have just now, and we would dispense thereby with the necessity of keeping the matron and staff of servants. 4806. With regard to the preference given to certain names, are there any boys of these names at present in the hospital f — Yes ; there are generally one or two. Schaw, M 4 Neil, Cunningham, and Stewart are the four preferable names. They are the names of the testator himself, his wife, his mother, and of his paternal grandmother. 4807. Are you bound to give a preference to boys of these names ? — That is in the original deed ; and of course, as the gentleman left his money with that condition attached to it, we always, other things being equal, and the children being necessitous, give the preference to boys of these names. I mean that, in a question between two boys equally necessitous, the preference would be given to a boy having one of those names. 4808. I suppose you have cases of that kind occurring constantly? — They frequently come up. 4809. But you only receive the boys in the case of their being necessi- tous ? — Yes. Practically the preference which is said to be given to boys of that name comes to little, because, if the majority of the governors are in favour of one boy, the name is thrown overboard ; and it is very difficult to make up your mind as to whether they are exactly equal. 4810. Then you do not find any great disadvantage to arise from that restriction? — None whatever. It was merely a natural feeling which the gentleman had in favour of his own name. There are other places where there are similar preferences. In Buchanan's Institution in Glasgow, boys of that name had a preference; and in Heriot's also they had a preference. 4811. I suppose there would be very little advantage in the institution to people of the name of Schaw over what is derived by people of other names ? — I don't think it makes material difference either the one way or the other. 4812. The trustees, I understand, would be anxious to carry out the changes you have mentioned if they received any encouragement from the Legislature ? — They were almost unanimous in their favour. There was some difference of opinion, but there was a majority who supported the proposed changes. 4813. The trustees are all ex officio* 1 . — Yes, or proprietors of certain estates in Prestonpans parish. Sir George Suttie and Mr. Syme of North- iield are the proprietors ; and then there are the Principal of the University of Edinburgh, the sheriff and a number of ministers, and six or eight of the Town Council or people in Edinburgh. The president and treasurer of three of the hospitals in Edinburgh are also trustees. 4814. Do you have a full attendance of trustees from time to time? — Always when there is an election there is a full attendance, but at an ordinary time there are not so many of them who attend the meetings. It is not often that many of the Town Council come, except just, perhaps, at t he first meeting after they have been elected, when they come to see the place. They are changing every year, except the provost, who is continued usually for more than one year. 4815. Is the selection of pupils made once a year ? — We elect twice a year. 4816. Who attends to the ordinary administration of the trust ? — There is a standing committee, that meets everv quarter and examines the pupils. 2 D 418 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. John 4817. Have they the complete management? — They have the complete St ruthe rs. con trol over the whole internal affairs of the hospital. Then there is one meeting of the general body of trustees^ which takes place at the hospital during the summer, and there is probably a full attendance on these occa- sions of the Edinburgh people ; but as they are most of them only in office for a short time, they do not practically do much in the management of the hospital — they come more to see how it is getting on ; and as they have every confidence in those who take the principal charge in the management of the affairs, they do not often interfere to alter anything* 4818. It would be in your power, I presume, to take in day scholars without an Act of Parliament ? — That is a question. We take them in the exercise of our judgment for what we hold to be in furtherance of the interests of the trust. 4819. But you could take them if they pay for their education ? — That is my opinion, that is what I suggested at first, — that we should take them in, but take none of the hospital funds for their behoof. We take one-half of the fees we get from them, and expend these in the form of prizes, which prizes are open to competition by the boarders, by the day scholars, and by the foundationers ; so that the hospital in that way gets a benefit from taking in day scholars and taking in boarders, both by the additional competition and also by the application of that portion of the fees to extra prizes. 4820. Would you propose to connect the school with the Privy Council grant ? — We have never done that as yet. 4821. But I mean the day school that you propose to establish ? — We never thought of that. 4822. You would not object to do that ? — Not at all. 4823. Or to the Government inspection ? — No. We expressly stated so, — that at all times the school should be open to any Government inspec- tor who chose to come to visit it. We are perfectly agreeable for that. 4824. Mr. Ramsay. — But you have never invited them to come ? — No, never; there being so many professional educationalists among the trustees. 4825. The Chairman. — How are the pupils examined at present?— Just the same as an ordinary examination at any school. The children are put through an examination in the whole of the classes that they are attending. 4826. By the master? — Yes; by the master, in the presence of the Standing Committee, which comprises some who have had professional experience in teaching. They generally leave the master to conduct the examination himself ; but some of the trustees occasionally put questions, so as to see that it is not a got-up affair — that the children are not crammed merely for the occasion. 4827. Do any of the pupils from the school at present go to the High School, or to any secondary schools in your neighbourhood or in Edinburgh? — Some of those who have been in the school as day scholars go to the High School, and some to the New Academy. One boy who was a day scholar lately is now at the New Academy, and another is at another secondary school in Edinburgh ; but the class of boys in the hospital is generally such that there are very few of them who can get the means of maintaining themselves at a school where they can obtain a higher education than they have in our school, unless their parents happen to belong to Edinburgh. If their parents belong to Edinburgh, they can stay with them after they have left the institution, and in that case they may go to the higher classes. 4828. Is there any money given in prizes ? — No ; it is all given in the shape of books. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 419 4829. Mr. Parker. — What fee do the present day scholars pay? — It is Rev. John not to be less than 5s. per quarter ; and if there is any boy very anxious st ruthe rs - to get into Greek, he has Is. extra to pay for that. The object of making the fee a little extra for that is to prevent the possibility of some person capriciously asking the master to teach a single child in some particular branch ; and the master gets the extra shilling. But they must all pay at least 5s. per quarter ; that was done to prevent the school from unduly competing with the other schools in the place. 4830. Of these fees, about one-half, you said, goes in prizes ? — Yes ; and the other half to the master. 4831. Do you admit as many children as present themselves who are willing to pay that fee ? — Yes. There have been none refused if they were well-behaved boys. I think there were one or two refused, on the ground that they were badly conducted children who had been put out of some other schools, and we did not want to be bothered with having them there. 4832. One of the further powers you wished was to charge a lower fee for this day school? — We might charge a lower fee than 5s. at present if we thought proper ; but we did not think it advisable to make this a competitive school with the other schools in the place, but rather to get a selection of boys who would have the effect of stimulating the hospital children. We wanted to get picked boys, clever boys, and also boys who would push on the boys in the hospital, and also that they should be of almost the same educational standing as the boys that are in the hospital. 4833. When the trustees petitioned that they might be empowered to open a large day school at very moderate fees, does that mean a fee such as is at present charged, or a lower fee ? — A lower fee ; because if they were to open day schools, they would, of course, be comparatively charity schools, — not to make them actually gratuitous, but to take in poor children. 4834. Is not the day school for children paying fees at present ? — It is ; but they are picked children. They have to pay 5s. a quarter ; and, of course, it is only a picked class of children who will pay that. 4835. If you got power to open this day school at moderate fees, and if you did so, then the difficulty would arise about competition with other schools ? — Of course it would, and there would be more of the pauper children attending the school. At present the parochial board pays a considerable amount to the different schools for the payment of the pauper children. 4836. If you opened a school with these moderate fees, I suppose you would admit children to it without any qualification of poverty ? You would take all that chose to come and pay these fees? — I suppose we would, because there would be a sufficient check upon people sending their children there who could afford to send them to better schools. People who were in good circumstances would never think of putting any of their children to a charity school, where they would be thrown among a lower class of children than they would care for them mixing with. 4837. Are there private schools in Prestonpans ? — There are three schools in the parish. There is the parish school and a Free Church school, and there is a school maintained by Sir George Suttie, which is also under Privy Council supervision. 4838. Is that school of any denomination in particular? — No. Children of all denominations go to all the different schools, from all classes of the community. Sir George Suttie's school is near the outskirts of Inveresk parish, and there are a number of children from Inveresk who go to it. 420 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. John The parish school and the Free Church school are more in competition, s timbers. f rom being nearer each other ; but practically the children go to either the one or the other, according to the favour of their parents. 4839. Schaw's Hospital was, I understand, at first in the House of Preston ? — Yes ; it is now a ruin. It was an old house that belonged to . Sir John Hamilton, and which was purchased by Dr. Schaw, who lived there and died. In his testament he provided that the funds should be available for keeping the hospital children in his own house until a new one was built ; and the new one was built in 1832, mainly from the increased revenue which was derived from coal being more extensively worked. 4840. Is the hospital, in the words of the will, a house built in a neat, plain, frugal manner I — Yes. Perhaps ' plain ' is a relative term. It is not, according to modern architecture, what we would call very ornate, but it is a handsome building. It was built under the supervision of Mr. Burn, architect. 4841. And it is such a building as would bring in a rent as a gentle- man's residence ? — With modifications, it would. 4842. In his will the founder wished to diffuse the benefits of his bequest, as extensively as the funds would admit, amoDg poor boys ? — Yes. 4843. Would you consider you were carrying out that intention in changing from an hospital to a day school ? — Yes ; I would think we were extending it according to his will. Perhaps we might be going further than he contemplated, because when he made his will there were no such poor rates as we have now. But I believe his intention was to provide for those who would not have had education provided for them otherwise ; and though now, with the parochial boards, pauper children are provided for, there are others slightly above the position of paupers who require aid, as being really poor. 4844. But, as they are otherwise provided for now, do you think it would be a true interpretation of the spirit of the testator's will to give them some- thing over and above what the parish provides — some higher education ? — If they would take it, I would give them a higher education ; but we have such a mass of very poor children in the place, that I am afraid you could hardly maintain a high class school there. At an early date, Prestonpans was a prominent place for education, and a great many gentlemen sent their sons there for education ; but most of the ancient mansions are dilapidated now, and you have a pauperized community taking up their place. 4845. What are the present emoluments of the master of the hospital ? — £77 a year, and his bed, board, and washing, and his portion of the fees. 4846. What number of out-door pupils are there on an average ? — I think there were thirteen on the day we made the return ; there are four- teen just now. 4847. Then, at the outside, his emoluments are under £100 a year? — Yes'. 4848. And he has his lodging ? — Yes ; his bed, board, and washing. 4849. And for these emoluments can you obtain such a master as the place requires? — Yes. I consider the man we have is a very suitable man, and a very efficient man altogether. We require not merely educa- tional qualifications in a place of that kind, but a man of good sound sense, as he has to be governor of the domestic arrangements as well as teacher of the children. 4850. Now, if you had the large day school you propose, you would elect to the foundation from boys already in the school, would you not ? — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 421 That was what the trustees proposed to do when applying for powers, — Kev. John to restrict the election to those who attended the day school. 1 was not st nithe rs. so clear about that, but on the whole it was thought advisable to keep to those who attended the day school, and to provide that they must attend the day school for at least a year before they got in, because it was thought, if we were to elect from any quarter, there might be a canvass through the various schools to take off the cream when we had anything to give ; but by limiting it to those who were already in the school, we thought we should get a better class to come into it, in the hope of their getting one of the bursaries or getting on to the foundation. 4851. And at the same time you would interfere less with the other schools by drawing off their best pupils ? — Yes. Then my idea was, that if our funds would have permitted of it, we might have an evening class, which, in a place like Frestonpans, might be useful. It was tried to word our petition in such a way that we might be entitled to give the master £10 or so to have an evening class during the winter, because the colliers' children usually go away from school very early, when they are only very imperfectly educated, and sometimes they are willing to take education afterwards, if an evening class is opened for them. 4852. Would you charge some small fee for that? — Yes. I would always charge some fee, because I find that what they get for nothing they value at nothing. 4853. Then you would charge some fee for every child who was not paid for by the parish ? — Yes, for every one. I have been myself in the way of paying, in behalf of the kirk-session, three-fourths of the fees of a number of children. I give them a ticket, and they go to any school in the parish they like : some go to the Free Church school, some to the parish school, and some to Sir George Suttie's. I pay three-fourths of their fees, and the parents must pay the other fourth, whatever it is ; and I have found that sometimes when I gave them that ticket, they neglected even then to send their children to school, because they had not got the other fourth, — one penny, or whatever it might be ; but in most cases, and in all where education was really valued, the odd fourth was readily forthcoming. 4854. Have you found that the payment of a sum by the parents, how- ever small, tends to regularity in attendance ?— Yes ; but with the very poor class of colliers and work people we have, there is very great irregu- larity in attendance. 4855. Does that depend in any way upon the conditions of their em- ployment ? — We have a number of very poor old houses in the place that bring the worst class of the colliers to us. Where there are steady colliers, they settle down where there are good houses provided for them ; but as our coal works are in a transition state, — they are nearly exhausted, and I am afraid they will not continue long, — the proprietors do not care about building very good houses, and the result is that w r e have a poor set of colliers, and their children attend very irregularly. Last week, which included Handsel Monday, and the men had taken a fancy to go on the ramble, I went to Sir George Suttie's school, and there were only 13 children there altogether, while this week there were 35, and usually there are above 60. 4856. When you have a School Board, as you shortly will have, do you propose in any way to associate any members of the School Board with the trustees, or to remain independent? — Of course I cannot say anything about that, whether they would be associated wit h the trustees or not ; but I don't think it would be advisable. I think it would complicate the thing very much, when we have such a number of trustees at present. 422 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. John 4857. But you expect that there will be easy and cordial co-operation Struthers. with the g c h 00 l Board 1 — I think there should be; but of course in a village population like ours there are jarrings, and you cannot account for them, — how they may arise or how they may be quelled. 4858. Mr. Lancaster. — I don't quite understand what your founda- tioners are to be under the new system ? — They are simply to get a certain allowance paid for their maintenance. 4859. Which you propose to be about £20 a year? — We thought we might be able to board them out at perhaps £15 a year, or something less. 4860. And then you would raise it perhaps to £20 if they showed a disposition to go on? — After they had been so many years in the institution, if they acquitted themselves creditably, and were thought worthy of going to college, they should get £20 a year to help them to go there, or to go to a trade. I would not wish to tie them down to college. Some of the trustees wished to do that, but I would rather let them go to any place of education they prefer that the trustees approve of. 4861. So that it simply comes to be a bursary of £15 a year so long as they remain in the school, and £20 a year after they leave if they are deserving of it ? — Yes. There may be others who are not foundationers at all who would get the £20. 4862. You would have a sum given to them on leaving the school, which might be competed for by all who were leaving the school at one time? — The foundationers would get what was thought to be a suitable provision for maintaining them, which we thought might be about £15, or from £10 or £12 up to £15, — a little higher than what the parochial board pays for boarded-out children ; and then at the end of each year we might have two or three or four bursaries to be competed for, which bursaries would be equivalent to about £20, or perhaps £25, — we would have power to give one or the other, — and these would be competed for by the foundationers and by all the day scholars, and it would just be the cleverest children who would get them. 4863. Mr. Parker. — Then would the foundationers be elected before they had been in the school ? — No. We propose that the foundationers should be elected out of those attending our schools. 4864. Then no poor boy could get admission to the school except by private assistance in the first instance? — Of course, under the new Act, the parents would either have to provide for him or the parochial board ; and in that case, if he is maintained for one year at the school from any quarter, he is then eligible to get on the foundation, 4865. The parish would provide his fee, but there might be a difficulty about his maintenance for that year ?— They would be under the same law for both the one and the other. If he is a pauper child, it is only on that account that the parish are liable for his education. 4866. They are liable under the new Act for the education of any child, although his parents are not on the poor roll ?^Yes, that is the case , under the Act now ; but of course we did not look into the matter so very narrowly in that way when applying for the Provisional Order before the Act had passed. 4867. Mr. Lancaster. — You described the idea that you had in view, in admitting day scholars under your present system to the hospital, to be that of getting clever boys who would push on the hospital boys ? — Yes. 4868. Did you find that answer? — It did, to a large extent. There is a freshness about the school now which it did not present before. For- merly we had only, say, 14 boys ; they came in at 7 and remained till 14, and you had seldom more than two children at the same stage of advance- ment. We wished to take in day scholars and boarders, — day scholars MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 423 particularly, — of such a standing and state of progress that they would Kev. John push on our classes ; and we found that to answer to a large extent. They St ruthe rs - are generally picked boys that come in. The parents wish to have them out of the ragamuffin class of the villagers; that is the secret of it. Instead of continuing them where there are a great number of very poor children, they would rather send them to our school, and make an effort to pay the 5s. 4869. Don't you think, with regard to Stiell's Hospital, that it would be a good plan to combine it with Schaw's in this way, keeping Schaw's as a large elementary school, and making the school in Stiell's Hospital a a good secondary school ? — I don't think that would do any good to Prestonpans. I don't think there would be any feeling in favour of such a combination. Of course, if Stiell's Hospital were opened as a secondary school, where children were admitted on paying fees, any children in Prestonpans whose parents could afford to send them there might go ; but I think we have such a pauperized community that we need all our funds for our elementary education. 4870. But I would leave you all your funds for elementary education ? — If Stiell's funds were applied to a secondary school, and we could enter it, there would be no objection to that, because we could go to it if we liked ; but if I had a child myself, I would rather send him to Edinburgh than to Stiell's Hospital, because there is a very poor class in Stiell's, and I would rather my children should not mix with them. 4871. Mr. Ramsay. — How is it that you have so few day scholars? Are all who come forward admitted 1 — Yes. There have been none re- fused, except, I think, two boys. The fees in the other schools are rather less ; I think they are 3s. to 4s. a quarter. Then another thing is the feeling of the other masters about the system. The present master of the parish school does not say anything about it, but the former one refused to take any of the girls into his school if the boys of the same family were sent away to the hospital. 4872. Did the schoolmaster say that ? — Yes. 4873. Mr. Parker. — Had he the right to do that ?-^-He had not the right, but at the same time the parents did not care to have a threat of that kind held out to them. 4874. Mr. Ramsay. — What is done with the fees that are paid by these children ? — The master gets one half, and the other half is applied in pur- chasing prizes. In point of fact, every child when he goes away gets a book, and those that distinguish themselves get a more valuable book. If a boy has behaved at all well, he always gets some little present. 4875. Do you think it would be necessary to pay so much as £15 for each of these pauper children being boarded in a place like Prestonpans, for the mere maintenance and clothing of the boy? — It would take very nearly that. You could not board and clothe them for much less. 4876. Do you think the parents of the class from whom the children come can possibly have that for each child ?-»-No, they do not get so much ; but we wish to make it rather a kind of boon to them. The paro- chial boards pay somewhere about £10, or pretty nearly that. I proposed to begin at £12 ; and as they get a little older I would give them a little more, up to £15. It was from £12 to £15 a year that I estimated we should require to pay. 4877. When you speak of your scholars going forward in their second- ary education, would your school fit the boys for proceeding to a second- ary school or going to the University? — At this moment the master is per- fectly capable of qualifying them for that; and I believe if the parents had the money or the self-denial to think of sending their children to the Unj- 424 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. John versity, many of them could go from the hospital quite easily. But in St ruthe rs. p 0m t of fact, the labouring classes get so very high wages now that there is no boon which a man gains by getting to college. A preacher gets £80 a year, and a collier at present can earn from £120 to £150 if he chooses to work steadily ; there is consequently little use in encouraging a man to go forward to the higher classes. SATURDAY, 25th January 1873. PRESENT — Sir Edward Colebrooke, Bart., Chairman. Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Parker, M.P. Mr. Lancaster. Mr. Sellar. Lord Provost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquha.rt, examined. Lord Pro- 4878. The Chairman (to Lord Provost Leslie). — You are one of the vost Leslie, trustees of Robert Gordon's Hospital ? — I am. Guild 0 4879. You are also one of the managers of that hospital ? — Yes ; I Lewis have been an ordinary governor for nine years, and this is now the fourth SD B t nie" d ^ ^ aVe ^ een cnau,man ' Urquhart. 4880. Would you state what is the constitution of the trust? — That is stated quite clearly in the rules. It consists of the members of the Town Council of Aberdeen, including the Dean of Guild, and four mini- sters of the Established Church. 4881. Are you trustee for any other hospital in Aberdeen? — I am one of the trustees for the Boys and Girls' Hospital. I am also one of the trustees for Mrs. Elmslie's Orphan Institution or Female Orphan Asylum. I hold these offices ex officio. I am also one of the trustees of Shaw's Hospital, which is a very small affair. There is also the Blind Asylum. I don't remember any others. 4882. Gordon's Hospital is for the education of indigent male children and grandchildren of decayed merchants and burgesses of Guild, with a preference to boys of the name of Gordon ? — Yes. There is a preference to boys of the name of Gordon and Menzies and some relations of his own, and after that it is to the sons and grandsons of decayed burgesses of Guild, then sons and grandsons of decayed burgesses of trade, and after that the children of residenters. 4883. I believe the area of selection was enlarged last year ? — Yes. 4884. And upon that matter you took the opinion of counsel, when you were advised that under the terms of the trust you were fully empowered to make the extension you proposed? — Yes. 4885. Would you state to whom it is now extended ? — It was extended, by resolution of the governors passed on 24th July 1872, to all classes of the community within the municipal boundary of Aberdeen, excluding those MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 425 receiving parochial relief ; the boys to be elected being the lawful sons of Lord Pro- persons who are residenters and are indigent and not able to maintain V( p t e ^ s ( J} e ' themselves, and also indigent persons residing in Aberdeen the parents Guild of whom had been also residenters. That was the resolution that was Lewis passed, based upon the opinion of counsel. Sm Baiiie Ud 4886. You retained the preference for the boys of the names of Gordon Urqubart. and Menzies ? — Yes. Some of us think that is declared to be one of the unalterable statutes. 4887. Is it one that you were anxious to maintain ? — No ; I don't think it is, for we have had very few boys of these names since I recollect. 4888. You have not found, in the case of these boys, that the privilege has been abused in their case ? — No ; I don't think it has. We have really had very few of them, and I don't think it has been more abused in these cases than it has been in any other. 4889. Have you given them a preference over more necessitous cases? — The governors have endeavoured, so far as they can, to act impartially, always giving preference, in cases of equal merit, to those boys who bore these names. 4890. Would you state how the selection of boys is made ? Is it by a committee or by a general meeting of the governors ? — It is all decided by a general meeting. There is, first, a committee appointed to inquire into the circumstances of all the applicants, and they make a report. That report is laid before the governors, and then the selection is made in this way : If they are unanimous, of course there is no division ; but if there are, as sometimes happens, more applications than there are vacan- cies, and they are not unanimous, then it goes to the vote. 4891. With regard to the extension of the objects of the charity, would you state the reasons why you thought it right that they should be so extended ? — In the first place there seems to be a growing opinion that the hospital system, which is part of the monastic system, is not so suitable for boys as the family system. 4892. What I wished to know in the first place was your reason for wishing an extension of the system to residenters, beyond what was the case under the old rules ? — The object of the governors was to make the trust more generally useful ; and one of their reasons for desiring the extension was, that the number of the Guildry had decreased very much, not only absolutely, but much more so in relation to the population of the city. They therefore thought it would be advantageous, and very much in keeping with the general spirit of the bequest, that the benefits of it should be extended to other classes. It has been confined, up till now, to two classes, — the children of burgesses of Guild, and the children of burgesses of trade. 4893. Do you consider that now the burgesses of Guild and of trade do not really represent the community as they did formerly? — They do not represent it in anything like the same proportion that they did even fifty years ago. The population of the city has increased since 1818, which is about the earliest record that I have got, nearly 2^ times, whilst the actual number of the Guildry has diminished to about one-third. These are roughly the proportions. 4894. Having carried out that change, the trustees, I understand, have been anxious to carry out further alterations on the system ? — Yes. 4895. Would you state now what improvements you proposed to intro- duce? — I think the best thing I can do is to hand in a copy of what was prepared as a memorial to be laid before the Home Secretary, as the result of what was resolved upon by the governors after a great deal of discus- sion. This memorial, I may say, was based so far upon the Act that was 426 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- passed for increasing the utility of the Merchants' Hospital in Edinburgh. V Deanof e ' ^ erna P s ^ ma y reac * ^he particulars of the scheme which was submitted Guild t° the Home Secretary. After the introduction stating the facts, it is Lewis said : 4 1. Power is desired to use the hospital wholly or partly for ^Bailie 11 ** or evenm g schools, and also to build and establish one or more addi- Urquhart. tional day or evening schools, and one or more elementary schools for boys and girls, either within the hospital grounds or in other parts of the city of Aberdeen. 2. The building used for the residence and mainten- ance of foundationers to be called, as at present, Robert Gordon's Hospital ; and the separate buildings used for day or evening schools, as well as the schools within the building separate from foundationers' schools, to be called Robert Gordon's Hospital Schools. 3. Power is desired to sell or lease the hospital buildings or schools, and to sell, feu, or lease the grounds therewith connected; to alter, improve, and enlarge the said buildings ; to purchase, lease, feu, or otherwise to acquire or hold suit- able land for new houses, to be occupied as school buildings, and for providing such school accommodation and recreation grounds as may, in the judgment of the president and governors, from time to time be required to give effect to the order or scheme, and that either adjacent to or in different localities from the present hospital buildings ; and to build on ground so acquired such schools as may by them be thought necessary — a suitable regard for economy to be had in the erec- tion thereof. 4. Power is desired to reduce the number of founda- tioners as soon as conveniently may be (the number at this time was 124) to 60, or still further if thought desirable ; but not under 60 unless by a resolution approved by a majority of the governors present at a meeting to be called at two weeks' notice, and after the proposed reduction under 60 shall have been under the consideration of a previous meeting of the governors, the objects of both meetings being stated in the billets calling the same.' 4896. Mr. Parker. — What was the date of that proposal ? — It was pre- pared in July 1871, and it was ready to be laid before the Secretary of State at that time; but on account of a stoppage having been put to the application by Hutcheson's Hospital, it was never presented. The object of the sixth power that was desired was this : That if it were con- sidered advisable to keep up the hospital system, there was a large number of boys in the hospital who would be better boarded out with their parents than kept along with so many others in the institution. There may be differences of opinion with regard to some whose parents could not keep them decently or look after their training, but I think there could be no doubt with regard to a very considerable number of those who are there at present, — children of decayed burgesses of Guild, and others, — who would really be better boarded with their parents and coming to the school for education. 4897. The Chairman. — You wished to have a discretionary power for boarding out as many of the boys as you could That was part of our proposal. 4898. But this scheme was never sent up to the Home Secretary ? — No. I was in London at the time to do it, but I had some communication in- directly with him, and he advised us to postpone it. 4899. With whom had you that communication ? Was it with the Government, or with counsel? — It was partly with the Lord Advocate. I did not have a direct communication with the Home Secretary, Mr. Bruce, but I had with his secretary. 4900. Was that last year? — No ; it was in 1871. But in consequence of the difficulties in the way of carrying out the Endowed Hospitals Act, MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 427 the scheme was never presented. I had been in communication with the Lord Pro- solicitors for Hutcheson's Hospital, and also for Heriot's Hospital in ^g^ 68 ^ 6 ' Edinburgh ; and from the difficulties thrown in their way, 1 thought it was Guild no use to put our scheme forward. Indeed, the Lord Advocate told me Lewis that he thought the Endowed Hospitals Act was unworkable, and that Sn £ t l J}j i * nd he would have to bring in an amendment of it. Urquhart. 4901. Were the trustees unanimous with regard to these recommenda- tions 1 — The Dean of Guild objected. 4902. But there was only one objector ? — So far as I recollect, there was only one. 4903. Was the scheme considered at the annual meeting of the trustees ? — It had been considered at three or four meetings, and a great number of amendments were made upon it. 4904. Would the out-door school which you proposed to establish in connection with the hospital have been an elementary school? — We had first elementary schools in view ; that is pointed at in some of the subse- quent clauses. As the clauses are not very long I had better read them. The fifth clause was : '5. Power is desired to enlarge the area of selection of foundationers to all classes of the community within the parliamentary boundaries of Aberdeen, excepting children of those receiving parochial relief, who are already provided for by the poors' hospital for boys and girls ; the boys to be elected being lawful sons of persons who are or who have been residenters within the parliamentary burgh of Aberdeen, who are indigent and cannot maintain them, having respect, in each case, to the most necessitous ; the boys to be seen and examined by a committee of the governors as to their habits and aptitude for learning; preference to be given, cceteris paribus, to children of decayed burgesses of Guild and bur- gesses of trade, and to boys of the name of Gordon or Menzies, for seven years from the date of the Provisional Order, after which no such prefer- ence to be given ; and in judging of the eligibility of children for election, the governors to be entitled to decline electing any children whose admis- sion would, in their opinion, be prejudicial to the interests of the other children, and to remove from the foundation any of the present or future foundationers whose continued connection therewith would, in their opinion, have a like effect.' 4905. That portion of your scheme you carried out ? — Yes ; that was the only clause we found we had power to carry out. 4906. You proposed to establish elementary schools in connection with the foundation ? — Yes. 4907. Did you propose to ask fees from the children ? — Yes ; small fees. 4908. Of what amount ? — The amount of fees was really never exactly fixed, but they were proposed to be very low. 4909. Did you propose to receive any of the children gratis ? — Yes ; those that were deserving, and whose parents could not pay for them. Perhaps if I read on, you will see exactly what we proposed : ' 6. Power is desired to board out any of the present and future foundationers in family with persons approved of, by and under the supervision of the governors, and in terms of such rules and regulations as may be made by them from time to time, but not more than two in one family ; and to pay to the persons with whom the foundationers are boarded, or to pay to parents, near relations, or legal guardians of any of the foundationers, such sum in name of board as they may consider proper under the cir- cumstances, exclusive of clothing, which would be supplied by the go- vernors, but in no case more than would be sufficient to maintain them in the hospital ; such boys to attend the classes as regularly as if in the 428 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- hospital, and to be equally under all rules as to proper behaviour during V Dean of 6 ' ^ e nours °^ instruction with those who are in the house. 7. Power is Guild desired to elect, admit, and receive into the schools, there to be educated Lewis along with or separate from the foundationers, and on payment of such Sm Baiiie Ud m °derate ^ ees as the governors may fix, such number of day scholars as Urquhart. they may select as suitable and as can be conveniently accommodated, those boys having the qualification which extends to admit to the benefits of the foundation to have a preference over others.' 4910. You could not, under the present trust, carry out any of those objects for which you asked powers ? — No. After full consideration, we were fully of opinion ourselves that we only had power to alter the area of selection, and that power we had under clause 20 of the deed. 4911. You proposed to reduce the number of foundationers? — Yes. 4912. Were they to be elected as under the old system, by the selection of the governors ? — Yes. 4913. You did not propose to admit any by competition ? — Those who had been in some of the previous training schools we proposed to admit into the hospital by competition. Then the scheme proposed : ' 8. Power is desired, notwithstanding anything in the present statutes and rules to 1 he contrary, to define and fix from time to time the age for the election and admission of foundationers and day scholars, and the period for which they shall remain in the hospital or attend the schools. 9. Power is de- sired to promote boys of promise and merit, having the necessary qualifi- cations, from the day schools to the benefit of the foundation, as their cir- cumstances in life require, on their passing such examinations as the governors may appoint.' This referred not merely to those who had the qualification of being sons or grandsons of burgesses of Guild or trade, but to any others who had been in the hospital. 4 10. Power is desired to send scholars at the expense of the hospital to English or Scotch uni- versities, local examinations, or examinations of a like character. 11. Power is desired to establish evening classes in the schools for such per- sons as cannot conveniently attend the schools during the day.' That would be for those who were grown up, and beyond the age of those in the hospital. 4914. That was to be general? — Yes. 4915. And not to be limited to any class? — No. ' 12. Power is de- sired to discontinue the payment of sums in name of apprentice fees to boys on leaving the hospital, and allowances on the expiry of apprenticeship, except to boys who have been elected to the hospital previous to the date of the Provisional Order, to whom the president and governors are to be empowered to pay a sum not exceeding £5 each.' The report of the master and others to us was that they did not think these apprentice fees did very much good, and I think they took about £200 a year. The terms of apprenticeship are now so much changed from what they were when the hospital was founded, that it was considered it would be better to discontinue that practice. 4916. I suppose you thought there would be no difficulty on the part of these boys in getting employment without fees? — If they were well-be- haved, and conducted themselves well, we have seen no difficulty in the way of them getting employment. 4917. But they really do readily get into employment ? — I think they do. They generally get into shops, or become tradesmen, and some go to sea. ' 13. Power is desired to apply a sum not exceeding £300 per annum in bursaries not exceeding £20 each, or tenable for longer than four years, to be awarded to foundationers of Robert Gordon's Hospital and pupils attending Robert Gordon's Hospital Schools, by competition, MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 429 for the purpose of enabling deserving students to prosecute their studies Lord Pro- after leaving the hospital or schools, — the said bursaries to be awarded ^p^oj 6 ' subject to such restrictions and conditions as the governors may fix.' Guild 4918. You do not have power to give any bursaries at present? — No. Lewis By the deed I don't think we have any power to do so. Sm ASiio r d 4919. Did you say to what extent you proposed to reduce the number urquhart. of foundationers? — From 124 to 60 at once. 4920. But it is stated in the answers that 176 boys are at present on the foundation ? — There was an addition of 12 made to the number ; and I suppose the number you have now mentioned includes those who are upon the Colleyhill Trust. 4921. Did your proposal not apply to that trust as well as to the hospital ? — No. Although the boys upon that fund are treated in every way along with the Gordon's Hospital boys, yet the Colleyhill Trust is under entirely different trustees. 4922. Are the trustees of Gordon's Hospital also trustees for the Colleyhill Trust? — No. I may say that four of them — that is, the four town's ministers — are common to both trusts ; otherwise they are quite different. 4923. So far as the money of the Colleyhill Trust has been left to educate boys in Gordon's Hospital, have the trustees of the hospital no control over it except so far as their maintenance and education are con- cerned ? Have they no control over the trust ? — I don't think they have any control. 4924. The boys are simply transmitted to the hospital, and then you take charge of them ? — Yes. 4925. Then the powers which you applied for and wished to obtain would not apply to any of the boys admitted under that trust ? — No ; but I may say that the Colleyhill trustees were agreeable to go into the change generally. 4926. Did you communicate with the Colleyhill trustees ? — Yes. Nego- tiations were going on at the time when the 'promotion of the application to the Home Secretary was in progress ; but as it appeared that nothing- could be made out of it at that time, the negotiations were stopped. 4927. Had you meetings with them? — We had several meetings. 4928. And so far as the matter went, you understood they were quite favourable to your proposals ? — Yes. 4929. Then the reduction of the numbers which you proposed was from 124 ? — Yes, from 124 at that time, but now it will be from 136. 4930. And you proposed to reduce that number to about one-half ? — Yes. 4931. Why was it necessary to reduce it so much? — It was just a sort of arbitrary number. 4932. Then you had it in view to make the whole better, because you thought it would be to the benefit even of those boys who were retained in the hospital that you should educate a smaller number in a more effective way? — It was not exactly so much that, as it was that we sup- posed, taking them as a whole, it would be a benefit to about one-half the number at least to be boarded out of the hospital, but still to be in the hospital getting their education and getting their clothing. 4933. Then did I understand that the foundationers were to be reduced to 60 ? — Yes ; those who resided within the hospital. 4934. But you would have kept up the full number of children ad- mitted to the benefits of the trust, only one-half of them would have been boarded out? — We didn't tie ourselves down to any particular number. 4935. But that was your general idea ? It was not to reduce the number 430 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. of the children who were to benefit by the charity ? — No ; but we thought that there might have been a considerable advantage in boarding so many of them out, and that that would give room for others. 4936. With regard to the investment of the funds of the hospital, they are partly in land and partly in house property in Aberdeen ? — Yes. 4937. Is it a property that is likely to increase in value? — The land has increased very much in value, and is still increasing. 4938. Is much of it available for feuing ? — No. I am not aware of any of it, except the hospital grounds, which could be available for that. 4939. It is in Aberdeenshire, but not in the immediate neighbourhood of the town ? — Yes. The investments have turned out remarkably well, and the increase in the funds is attributable to the increased value of the land. 4940. With regard to the other hospitals of which you are a trustee, — the Boys and Girls' Hospital and Mrs. Elmslie's, — has any question come before the trustees with regard to altering the conditions of the trust ? — No ; none with regard to these. 4941. In these hospitals, are the children of the pauper class, or above it ? — The Boys and Girls' Hospital is for children of the pauper class. Mrs. Elmslie's Institution is for necessitous orphans. 4942. Are they taken from the poorest class ? — Yes ; but I think they are not taken from paupers. 4943. Those in Mrs. Elmslie's Institution are not ? — No. 4944. But those in the Boys and Girls' Hospital are ? — Yes. 4945. And they are both from the poor classes? — Yes. 4946. Is the admission to Mrs. Elmslie's Institution confined to orphans ? — Yes ; to orphan girls. 4947. Who have lost both their parents? — Yes. That is a bequest that was made, I suppose, about thirty years ago. 4948. There has never been any question as to the propriety of board- ing out these children? — No. 4949. Do you not think it would be desirable to do so ? — Perhaps my own opinion on that subject is different from that of a good many of the other governors ; but I am very much of opinion that it might be of use to board out some of them at any rate. 4950. And there has never been any question as to the expediency of their being taught in a school with other children who are not paupers ? — No. I think it would be advisable to teach them in the school ; but I may just say, with regard to most of these hospitals for girls, that I think girls in them who are training up to be servants get too much attention when they are children to be well trained to attend to others after they come out, and a good many of them have got rather higher ideas than what their class entitles them to. 4951. But still they find their way readily into service? — They generally do; but some of them at first did not turn out as could have been desired. 4952. Then your own opinion is that it would be desirable to have some change? — Yes ; but I speak merely for myself upon that point. It has never been before the trustees. 4953. And does that opinion apply to both these hospitals? — I am speaking now specially with regard to Mrs. Elmslie's Orphan Hospital. 4954. But not with regard to the Boys and Girls' Hospital ? — That is a rather more difficult subject. I would not like to commit myself to anything upon that. 4955. What is the number in the Boys and Girls' Hospital ? — I might give an idea of it, but I would rather send the numbers afterwards, as none of Mr. Laurie's inquiries referred to that at all. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 431 4956. The admissions to that hospital are not confined to orphans? — No. 4957. Mr. Parker. — The census says the number are — Boys' Hospital, 52 ; Girls' Hospital, 52 ? — Yes ; I would say the number was about 100, and they are very equally divided between boys and girls. 4958. The Chairman. — When you say these children come from the poor class, do you mean that they are ever received from the poorhouse into the hospital 1 — I do not remember of a case of that kind. 4959. But they are generally admitted upon applications from their parents or relatives ? — Yes ; and admitted by the managers. 4960. They are only admitted in cases of extreme destitution ?— - They are not exactly cases of extreme destitution, but they may be taken in such cases. Paupers' children may be taken, but I think they have never been taken out of the poorhouse direct, although there have been cases of chil- dren being admitted the parents of whom were in the poorhouse. 4961. Mr. Ramsay. — Have you had instances of the children of paupers being admitted whose parents were on the poor's roll although not in the poorhouse ? — Yes, we have had such cases. 4962. The Chairman. — These hospitals are inspected by the Government inspector ? — Yes. 4963. And Gordon's Hospital also ? — Yes; it is also regularly inspected and the children examined, and a regular report given in by the examiner. One of the conditions that we prescribed in our scheme was, that we were to reserve power to the Government inspectors to visit the schools. 4964. Mr. Parker. — If this plan were carried into effect, of having a larger day school, what would be the character of the education in it ? Would it be elementary? — It would be elementary for the additional schools. 4965. Not going any higher than the standard in Aberdeenshire of parochial schools ? — The elementary schools we proposed were to be as a sort of lower grade than Gordon's Hospital, and then a certain number of the deserving boys would be drawn from them and put into the hospital. 4966. Then what would be the character of Gordon's Hospital School? Would it be a higher elementary school ? — Yes. The education in the Gordon's Hospital School consists of elementary Latin, a moderate amount of mathematics, and latterly there has been French added to it. 4967. But the children would not be carried so high, I suppose, as in the Grammar School at Aberdeen ? — No ; but we asked power to send a certain number of boys out of the hospital funds to the Grammar School, or any other higher school. 4968. And you also asked for power to help them to the universities if they showed sufficient capacity? — Yes. 4969. Do you suppose that there are in Aberdeen many children not receiving education at all from destitution ? — Not a great number. We have a large establishment of industrial schools in the meantime, supported by contributions which have overtaken a great deal of the want. The children for these schools are taken from the lowest class. The principle upon which they were established was that the children should receive education and maintenance, but no lodging ; that they should reside with their parents ; and that has hitherto been carried out. The children get an elementary education there, — what are called the three ll.'s, — and they are trained to some handicraft trade as far as possible. 4970. Are there many parish schools in Aberdeen? — A great number. 4971. I mean are there many parochial schools in the town of Aberdeen ? — Yes, a considerable number of sessional schools supported by the Established Church; and the Free Church has a number of schools. Lord Pro- vost Leslie Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Baiiie Urquhart. 432 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 4972. Then, altogether, the school provision is already very ample? — I should think it pretty ample. I won't say that it overtakes all the chil- dren, but I believe there are means for nearly overtaking the whole of them, if parties would apply themselves to the means that are in their power. 4973. Are the benefits of Gordon's Hospital open to boys throughout the county? — No. They may have come from the country sometimes, but their parents or grandfathers must have been residing in Aberdeen before they can be admitted. 4974. And in the Provisional Order that was proposed it was not in- tended to extend it beyond Aberdeen ? — No ; not beyond the parliament- ary boundary. I think it was not exactly settled that it should be extended even so far as the parliamentary boundary. Some were of opinion that we should not go beyond the municipal boundary, but I think it was the general opinion that we should go as far as the parliamentary boundary. That boundary in Aberdeen is much larger than the municipal boundary, which forms a difficulty just now with regard to the schools. 4975. Is there anything at all of a denominational character about Gordon's Hospital — any restriction about denominations ? — No. 4976. By what inspector has it usually been inspected ? — Mr. Kerr has inspected it for some time back. 4977. Does he act for the Established Church? — He has acted for the governors ; he is a Government inspector. 4978. But as matter of fact he is the Government inspector for Estab- lished Church schools ? — Yes, I believe he is. 4979. And there has been no difficulty found with the parents of the children about the religious instruction ? — I never heard of any. 4980. Would it be the general desire of the governors of Gordon's Hospital to remain independent of the new School Board ? — I should think it would. 4981. But you anticipate no difficulty in the way of a cordial co- operation with the School Board ? — I should suppose that the School Board would not interfere with Gordon's Hospital management or with us. 4982. They would simply estimate the results of the education given in your schools, and allow for them ? — Yes ; but I think we give a bet- ter education, and more than would be given in the Government schools, so that we would not be interfered with. 4983. Mr. Ramsay. — You have stated, I think, that there is accommo- dation in the schools within Aberdeen for the education of all the youth of Aberdeen? — I think pretty nearly so. I could not say how many children there are who are not receiving education, but the number is not very large in proportion to the population. 4984. Then with what object did you propose to establish an additional number of elementary schools ? — There is still a certain number who are not at the schools at all. 4985. If there be accommodation in the existing schools, would you not think it more economical to send the children to those existing schools where the governors would be satisfied that they would receive a good education ? — If that had been the case, we could not have had them so completely under the surveillance of the governors as in schools established by ourselves. Besides, one object of that proposal was that the fees should be reduced very low, so as not really to pauperize the children, but to allow them to pay the small fee which would be charged, and which would be such as very poor people would be able to pay. 4986. What would be your estimate of a low fee in that locality? — I had made up a calculation of it, and. as far as I recollect, it was about 2s. 6d. a quarter, or 10s. a year. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 433 4987. You stated that one of your proposals was that certain scholars Lord Pro- should be selected from the elementary schools to go on to the secondary ^gj^jj**' schools. By what means did you propose that they should be selected ? — Guild By examination. Lewis 4988. By competitive examination? — Yes. In the scheme which I Sl " 1 ' 5 , ; J 1 i , li | ul(l made out, the fee was based upon 2s. 6d. a quarter, or 10s. a year ; it might UrquUart. have been a little higher or lower, but that was the general statement I made up in fixing the calculations. However, the governors could have had the power of raising that, or in some cases diminishing it, or doing away with it altogether ; but the object was that these schools should not be pauper schools, but that the people should pay a little for the education given in them. 4989. Then your object in selecting the more clever pupils was to bring on those who had an aptitude for acquiring instruction in the higher branches ? — Yes. 4990. Has it ever been considered by the governors of the various hos- pitals in Aberdeen whether any mode of combining the whole into one in- stitution could be carried out ? — No ; and I don't see very well how it could be done, because the classes for which the hospitals are destined are so different. There is not one cognate hospital to Gordon's Hospital in the city. It is very different, again, from the Boys and Girls' Hospital ; the classes for which they are intended are different. Then there is the Or- phan Girls' Asylum ; it is different. Then there is the Blind Asylum ; it is also different. 4991. Leaving out of view the Blind Asylum, do you not think that if your views regarding the boarding out of pupils were carried out, that system might be more economically managed if you had one organization, rather than three separate organizations for the three hospitals,— Gordon's, the Boys and Girls', and the Orphan Girls? Has that ever been con- sidered? — No; and the classes for these different hospitals are so very different that it could not be done without an Act of Parliament to amalgamate them. 4992. But a Provisional Order such as you were to have applied for would have been equivalent to an Act of Parliament in your case? — In our case it would ; but although the governors of Gordon's Hospital were almost unanimous in favour of the scheme, with the exception of the Dean of Guild, I cannot say for the unanimity of the managers of the Boys and Girls' Hospital. I don't think they would have gone so far. 4993. In short, no view of that kind has ever been under consideration? — No ; not with the Boys and Girls' Hospital. 4994. The Chairman. — Did you say whether it had been proposed to have any alteration in the constitution of the trust? Was that ever under consideration ? — No ; I don't think that was ever considered. Indeed, so far as my experience goes, — although I may be a little partial to it, having been so long a governor, — I must say that the governors of Gordon's Hospital pay every attention, internally and externally, to everything con- nected with the institution that I think they could be reasonably expected to do. 4995. Was the financial effect of these changes fully gone into? — Yes. 4996. How was it proposed to supply funds for the additional objects, — the out-door schools, the alteration of buildings, and the evening schools? — The scheme which I made up, and which was the only one submitted with calculations, did not extend to selling the hospital. It only extended in the meantime, and in the first place, to reducing the num- ber, and providing teaching for boys and girls, especially boys, out of the hospital. Before we could have sold the hospital the hospital system 2 E 434 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urqukart. would require to have been given up altogether, and the scheme we had in view did not go so far as that. 4997. Then you would have had funds at once for the establishment of a day school ? — The saving which I expected from reducing the number was £550 a year, and the surplus the year before was £740. That was £1290 for these two years, and the balance is considerably increased now. 4998. Have you any accumulated funds? — No. The calculation of the expenses was about £1600 ; and supposing 1000 scholars at 2s. 6d. per quarter, that would be £500, leaving a surplus at that time of about £196. That would be still further increased now. In a report which I got from a chartered accountant in Aberdeen, he expected that in a few years the revenue would be increased by £400 or £500 ; but I think it will be more than that. It has increased more than that since the report was made up. 4999. {To Dean of Guild Smith.) — I understand you dissented from the recommendations of the trustees as to the proposed alterations on Gordon's Hospital? — My predecessor in office did so, and I entertain the same opinion. 5000. You did not hold this office when the question was considered by the trustees ? — No. 5001. But still you have considered the whole question, and you are opposed to the proposed change ? — Yes ; to parts of the proposed change. 5002. To what parts? — I would object, in the first place, to diminishing the number of the foundationers. I think if reference is made to page 79 of the deed of mortification, being the latest executed, it will be found that there is a very express explanation given by the founder : ' For pre- venting any dubiety that may arise anent the order of preference, I hereby will and declare that any indigent relations of the name of Gordon apply- ing to be admitted into the said hospital shall be preferred in the first place, any indigent relations of the name of Menzies in the second place, any other indigent boys of the name of Gordon in the third place, and any other indigent boys of the name of Menzies in the fourth place, they being all burgesses of Guild's children or grandchildren, and of the age and qualities mentioned in the said deed of mortification.' That is the last amendment made by the founder upon the original deed, which I conceive to supersede all previous ones. 5003. Then you objected to the proposed change on what ground ? — As interfering with the preference laid down in the deed. 5004. You would not have objected to the boarding out of some of the children ? — No, I would not. 5005. Nor to the school being united with an out-door school? — No. 5006. Would you object to the establishment of evening schools in connection with the hospital ? — No ; there would be no objection to that on my part. 5007. Then the only objection you had was the one you have men- tioned ? — I would object to the hospital being opened to all classes of residenters. 5008. Did you object to the change that was carried out last year of throwing the hospital open to certain residenters ? — No ; I conceived that to be quite within the power of the governors. 5009. Then what further extension is it that you object to? — One of the things contained in the memorial that was read just now by the Lord Provost to be submitted to the Secretary of State, was the doing away with any power on the part of the governors to pay allowances to boys after they are put into situations. Now, it is a fact that many boys who are orphans go into situations after leaving the hospital, and have no MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 435 means whatever of going through their apprenticeship unless they get Lord Pro- assistance from the hospital. V °Dean of 6 ' 5010. You would not abolish the system of apprenticeships? — Not Guild altogether. Lord Provost Leslie. — It is compulsory just now. Dean of Lewis Guild Smith. — It is compulsory just now, but I would have no objection ^ike® to power being reserved to the governors to make such allowances when JJrquhart. they see cause. 5011. But let me understand your objection to the extension of the benefits of the hospital to all residenters. You do not object to it as regards the advantages of the day schools? Is that the case? — I only object to the expulsion or the diminution of the number of founda- tioners below what the house can contain. 5012. Mr. Parker. — Do you wish to retain the preference to certain classes ? — I do, most decidedly. 5013. The Chairman. — What classes would you retain it to? — To those that the founder mentions in his very last deed ; not excluding residen- ters, of course, but reserving preference in every case, whether in the hospital or out of the ' hospital, to the children of burgesses of Guild or of trade. 5014. Then, with regard to the alteration made last year, and opening it to the children of residenters, did that not abolish the preference to bur- gesses ? — Certainly not. There was one thing I may mention as a reason why the area was extended upon that last occasion, and why the burgesses did not object to it, namely, that frequently there were children of burgesses of Guild and of trade admitted to the benefits of the hospital who were not exactly poor enough ; and by having restricted the admission to the hospital to these two classes, I believe it is a fact that none of those who were intended to come after those classes ever had been admitted to the hospital. 5015. But the changes went further than that, and proposed to abolish the privilege of burgesses ? — If they do so, then of course we object. 5016. Mr. Parker. — The scheme retained the ceteris paribus preference for burgesses ? — Yes. 5017. The Chairman. — You would only object to it if it was proposed to abolish it altogether ? — Yes. 5018. You wish to retain the preference, but not to offer any obstacle to the admission of children of residenters, provided the others are admitted ? — Yes ; to keep up the preference indicated in the deed. 5019. With regard to the hospital system itself, do you think it would be improved by the children being boarded out, and by their being mixed with out-door scholars ? — There is no question out the hospital system has its advantages as well as its disadvantages ; it does not meet every case. There are plenty of boys admitted into Gordon's Hospital whose parents are not fit to control or educate them. There are others, again, who could with advantage be boarded out. 5020. You mean that that should be discretionary ? But with regard to the boys generally, do you not think it would be a decided advantage to all of them to be mixed with the scholars of an out-door school ? — Yes. 5021. You are highly favourable to their being mixed with out-door pupils, but the other part you think should only be discretionary? — Yes. 5022. If they could not carry out the object of having them partially boarded out, in consequence of the want of available funds, without some reduction of the numbers in the hospital, would you not in that case be favourable to some reduction in the numbers? — I don't think the numbers that are now in the house should be decrease I ; mid I think t here is ample provision made for them. 436 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 5023. But you think that the other part of the scheme could be carried out, and at the same time maintain the full numbers in the house ? — I do. And with the increased revenues that will soon be at the command of the governors they will be able to institute supplementary schools, particularly schools to prepare boys for admission, because boys are not admitted into Gordon's Hospital until they have a certain amount of education. 5024. Mr. Parker. — Where the parents of boys in the hospital are re- spectable, you would be inclined to let the boys board with them? — I would. 5025. Where the parents were otherwise, should you object to boarding the boys out with some well-selected family other than their parents ? — Not in every case ; but there are many boys sent into that house who do require the discipline of the hospital. 5026. Then you would expect to find that some would be the better of boarding out, and others would be the better of being kept in the hospital ? — Precisely. 5027. But on the whole there would be perhaps some diminution of numbers in the hospital"? — I don't think the present numbers, or the numbers that the house would contain, are too many* 5028. Are there many applicants now beyond the numbers that are received? — There are a good many. When the last change was made, and an additional class was allowed to send in applications, there was a considerable increase in the numbers. 5029. Then you do not object to admitting this larger class, so long as the others have the preference in the admission ? — Certainly not. 5030. With regard to the apprenticeships, what was proposed in the Provisional Order was that power should be given to discontinue them, not that the governors should be bound to discontinue them ? — I would not object to that. 5031. You would not object to a discretionary power to discontinue? — No ; but still do not take away the power to make an allowance to a poor orphan boy, to help him through his apprenticeship when he leaves the house. 5032. In the same way, are you prepared to adopt a discretionary power to board out, without an obligation to do so? — Certainly; but I am clear for maintaining the full number in the house that can be comfortably accommodated there. 5033. Would you be favourable to the proposal for assisting boys of ability to go on to the Grammar School ? — Yes. 5034. And even, if necessary, to the University ? — Yes. I think that has been partly carried out. There have been boys sent to the Grammar School, and one or two to the University also. Lord Provost Leslie. — The governors have no doubt stretched their powers a little there for the benefit of the community. 5035. (To Dean of Guild Smith.) — Then, altogether, so far as the proposals leave it in the discretion of the governors to do the one thing or the other, you would perhaps not oppose them? — No. The only thing I wish to oppose, — and I believe the Guildry are unanimous in that matter, — is being deprived of the preference for admission. 5036. Mr. Lancaster. — Do I understand that you are unanimous for maintaining the preferences absolutely? — The Guildry are — not the governors. 5037. The governors are for converting the preferences into a ceteris paribus preference ? — Yes. 5038. With reference to that passage which you read at page 81 of the codicil, do you not consider that the terms of that part of the codicil MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 437 fall under the general power given at page 71 of the same pamphlet, — in Lord Pro- the original deed section 20 ? — Do you refer to the power to alter ? v Dean of 6 ' 5039. Yes. — That turns upon what are the fundamental articles. Guild 5040. No doubt ; but don't you think, reading the whole of the codicil, Lewis that that part of the codicil at page 81 is controlled by section 20, what- Sl3 ]^Jjiie nd ever section 20 may mean ? — My opinion was, that I was to read from Urquhart. the end, — to read backwards, — and that the last will of the man is the thing that we are bound to administer. 5041. There is no doubt of that as a general principle, but you must also look at the purpose of the particular deeds. Now, if you look at page 81, it is declared by him that the hospital is to be founded for such or such purposes ; and is not the purpose of what follows expressed in the words, 4 for preventing any dubiety that may arise anent the order of preference'? Is not that the object of the whole ? — Yes. 5042. It is to clear up the preferences ? — Yes ; and that is all we want to maintain. 5043. But if it is merely put in there for the purpose of clearing up the actual preferences in the original deed, is it not controlled by the power given in section 20 of the original deed ? — Perhaps it is. It is only if it would not work, because section 20 says 5044. Never mind what is the meaning of section 20. Is not the pas- sage in the codicil overridden by section 20, whatever may be the meaning of that section? — You can never by section 20 neutralize what is said on page 81. 5045. Not neutralize it; but is not the codicil under the control of section 20 ? — I am not able to form an opinion upon that point. The fact is, we have thought of going back. 5046. But then the question of going back or not in the construction of deeds is of course determined very much by the purpose of the deeds with which we are dealing ? — No doubt ; but my reading of this was, that if after trial and experience there was ground for altering it again, it could be altered. 5047. Do you mean for altering the whole provisions? — Yes ; if there is ground for that. 5048. Mr. Ramsay. — Is it your opinion that it would be better for the children who are the foundationers that they should be kept in the hospital rather than boarded out? — Not in slump. There are plenty of them who could very well be boarded out, but I hold that there are many who are much better to be kept in the house. But what I am contending for principally, is the preferential right of the foundationers ; and I hold that, whether they are kept in the house or boarded out, the parties mentioned in the clause I have read always have the preference. 5049. That is not the question. What I wish to know is, whether you yourself think that, as a rule, it would be better for the children that the governors should keep up the number that are in the house, rather than diminish that number by boarding out the children with their parents, rela- tives, or guardians, or other persons in whom the governors have confidence? — I have already said that I think the number should be kept up to the extent of as many as the house will hold. 5050. I understand that ; but is it with reference to the good of the chil- dren themselves that you seek that they should be maintained in the house T -—Many of them, I quite admit, and as I have said a little ago, could with benefit to themselves be boarded out ; but there are many, again, who ought to be kept in the house, and who require to be subjected to the dis- cipline of an hospital. 5051. Is the discipline of the hospital so good that the children are 438 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. better there than they would be under a judicious person in whom the governors had confidence? — Many of them are. Many of them want their fathers, and many of them want their mothers, and there is no house where they can be well kept at home ; and it has yet to be a matter of experiment what benefit is to be derived from indiscriminately boarding them out. There would certainly require to be a great deal of care taken by the governors in selecting the parties with whom these boys were to be boarded. 5052. I quite concur in that opinion ; but supposing they exercise that care, do you not think that the children would be better in a family than in the hospital ? — As I said before, that is a thing which could not answer in the slump. I think the hospital system should be kept up to a certain extent. 5053. Do you think it is for the good of the children that the governors should continue the system that they at present have, for all that the house can contain ? — I do. 5054. Mr. Sellar. — I did not understand why you considered that they would be better in the hospital than when boarded out with people outside ? — It is just because there is a much more powerful control exercised over them in a house like that than there would be in a private family. 5055. Then it is merely as a matter of discipline that you approve of the hospital system being maintained ? — Yes. Take the case, for example, of a boy, an only child, whose father is dead ; his mother, of course, would spoil him, and you could not put him to live with anybody else. There would be too much liberty given in that case. The governors have been experimenting for the good of the house in every direction, and one of their experiments was, that they allowed the boys two days out in the week instead of one. The consequence of that simply was, that the boys returned to the hospital with their stomachs spoiled twice a week, in place of once as they had done before. 5056. The Chairman. — Are you a trustee of either of the other hospitals which have been mentioned by the Lord Provost? — I am a trustee of Mrs. Elmslie's, that is, the Female Asylum, and of Shaw's Hospital, which is a very easy matter, for there are only five boys in it. However, Mrs. Elmslie's is a pretty large institution, and I quite concur in what the Lord Provost said, that the children who are admitted into that hospital are too well kept, too finely brought up, and do not enter into the sphere of fife that they are intended for with benefit. 5057. Mr. Ramsay. — You have paid attention to the children who leave Gordon's Hospital? — I have. 5058. Do you think they turn out better than the same class of children who have not had the advantage of a similar education ? — They certainly do not turn out worse. Referring to a time fifty years ago, I can remem- ber that there was a competition to get boys from Gordon's Hospital. Every counting-house and shop in Aberdeen wanted these boys. In fact, I was set aside in an application which I made for a situation when I was quite a lad because I had not been brought up there. But at another time, from some cause or other, the boys got a bad character, and the governors often had a difficulty in finding proper situations for them ; but at present I think there is no difficulty in that respect. I think they dis- charge their duties well. With regard to the withdrawing of the allow- ance to boys on leaving the hospital, I think power ought always to be reserved by the governors to bestow allowances upon boys who require them. I would just take the case of one boy, the last in my mind, who has got his education and who wants to go into an office as a clerk, but who cannot be maintained by his mother during the time of his apprentice- MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 439 ship for less than double what he gets as apprentice wages. It is in cases like that that the governors ought to give assistance, because the boy cannot get through his apprenticeship without help from such a source. That mode of assisting boys might come in place of the apprentice fee, which used to be given when boys were sent out as apprentices to trades. 5059. Has the conduct of the boys, upon the whole, been entirely satis- factory to the governors of late years ? — Of late the discipline has fallen off ; and perhaps that may very well be accounted for by the fact that the head master, who lately resigned, has been rather infirm for a few years back, and he has not been able to exercise that authority which he other- wise would have done. In that way the discipline of the house rather deteriorated, but I think the present master is quite capable of restoring it. 5060. Of late years the discipline and conduct of the children has been unsatisfactory ? — I must say that it has. 5061. The Chairman (to Bailie Urquhart).^-JIa,ve you any statement to make with reference to the administration of Gordon's Hospital ? — I think, unless there is any particular point or question you may wish to ask me, there is very little that I have to say with reference to it, further than to express my own opinion with reference to the hospital system generally. You have already heard the terms of the Provisional Order that we applied for, or rather intended to apply for, to reduce the number of resident foundationers to sixty, with power to the governors to reduce them inde- finitely afterwards. My own feeling with reference to that matter, and, I believe, the feeling of the majority of the governors, was that it would be a very desirable and a very proper thing that the number should gradually be further reduced, — that is, until the present hospital system was entirely abolished, and the whole of the foundationers boarded out, or so much paid for their board either with their parents or with individuals whom the governors might select, as being, in their opinion, proper parties to maintain the boys. Generally speaking, I agreed and do agree with the proposals in that Provisional Order which we intended to apply for, and which I think it is unnecessary for me to enter into particularly, unless there is any special point on which you desire to have information. 5062. Mr. Parker. — The majority of the governors proposed in this order, did they not, after the lapse of seven years to abolish all preferences, whether of names or to the sons of Guild brethren ? — They did. I don't recollect exactly if it was seven years that was mentioned, but they did propose to abolish all preferences whatever in the selection of children to the hospital. That was their purpose, and they were guided in that a good deal by the powers that had been obtained in the Act for the govern- ment of the hospitals in Edinburgh, and also because they themselves approved of such a change. 5063. They specially asked for power to decline electing any children whose admission would, in their opinion, be prejudicial to the interests of the other children. Had that special reference to the preferential claims of the children of burgesses ?— That was a general power. I should say it was a necessary power in all institutions of the kind, because there are always some children of all classes whom it would be desirable some- times to keep out. I am not aware that the clause in this case had special reference to any particular class. 5064. You are not aware that the governors found themselves embar- rassed by the necessity of admitting children whom they thought unfit? — No ; I did not take it in that view. We have felt ourselves embarrassed to some extent in consequence of the smallness of the number that we had to select from, and requiring to admit those who were really, in consequence of their circumstances, not proper objects to be admitted to the institu- Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 440 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- tion. There have been those whose parents were well enough able to V Dean of 6 ' mamtam anc * educate tnem themselves. That is the only special embar- GuSd rassment we have had. Lewis 5065. Is there any entrance examination of the children who are ad- Sn Baliie nd m * tte( * to tne liospital ? — There is an examination. Urquhart. 5066. Would the governors be entitled to reject the child of a decayed burgess if he were altogether uneducated, and in that sense unfit for ad- mission ? — I believe so. 5067. You are not aware that there is any absolute claim that they must be admitted, whether fit or not 1 — No. I may say that the alteration which we made last year was believed by the great majority of the gover- nors to be entirely within our power and in terms of the deed,when we agreed to give a preference only cceteris paribus. The contention of the minority was, that we should first of all admit sons and grandsons of burgesses of Guild and burgesses of trade, if they came at all within the character that they were required by the deed to possess, even although they might be in much better circumstances than others ; but the admission cceteris paribus now in operation changed the position of the matter considerably as to the relative position of the parties when placed against each other ; that is to say, if they were equal in other respects, we would admit the son of the burgess of Guild or the burgess of trade rather than the other. 5068. The Chairman (to Lord Provost Leslie). — The Town Council had under their consideration in 1871 the different funds in their hands, and how far they might be made applicable to education under the Endowed Hospitals Act 1 — Yes ; that matter was brought forward then. 5069. And a draft report, which I have in my hand, was prepared, showing the funds now at their disposal ? — Is that the report that was prepared in January 1871, drawn out by Mr. Barclay ? 5070. Yes. Was it fully considered by the Town Council ? — It was discussed at one or two meetings, and then there was a very great oppo- sition to it, and it never went further. 5071. No steps were taken to prepare any scheme to be submitted to the Council? — Nothing further than that. 5072. Do you wish to make any statement to the Commission with regard to that matter ? — Yes. Perhaps you will observe that there are several funds dealt with. 5073. With regard to the Guildry funds, there are some which are at present, as I understand, purely charitable, and given to the assistance of decayed members of the burgess class? — Yes. You will observe that what is known by the Guildry Fund or Funds consists of three parts, and these funds have been the subject of endless discussion and a good deal of litigation. They consist, first, of a fund called the Hospital Charge or Guild Brethren's Hospital, what is called the Guild Box, and what is called the Additional Fund to the Guild Box. These funds— the hospital since 1609, and the other two since their origin — have been entirely used for the benefit of the burgesses of Guild and their families. 5074. None of them have ever been applied to educational purposes 1 — None ; all to charitable. 5075. I wish you to state your opinion why, if you do think so, these funds are in any way rightly applicable to education ? — I must say that I was one of those who opposed their application to that purpose. 5076. Then you think they are not applicable ? — I don't see my way to taking these funds and applying them to educational purposes. 5077. With regard to mortifications for bursaries at the University of Aberdeen which are under the patronage of the Town Council, can you state how many of them came under the consideration of the Scotch MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 441 University Commission ? Were they all considered by the Commission, Lord Pro- or only a part of them ? — I think all that were in existence at that time ^J^ 68 ^ 6 ' were considered by the Universities Commissioners, and I don't recollect GuUd of any having been bequeathed since then. Lewis 5078. With regard to the mortifications for the endowment of the Sm B t a b i j i g Ild Grammar and other schools, and for bursaries at the Grammar School, Urquhart. were you desirous of a change in the application of these funds ? — I was not averse to a re-organization of those bursaries that had been left for educational purposes. 5079. But I am speaking of the endowment fund. The amount of stock is put at £17,000? — Yes; it was found that a considerable number of these was partly applicable to charitable purposes and partly to edu- cational purposes. I was not averse to a redistribution of those for educational purposes ; but I was averse to those that were specifically des- tined for poor people being taken and applied to education, unless it could have been proved at the time, which I did not think it was, that the application of them was really injurious to the parties who were receiving them. 5080. First, with regard to the endowments of the Grammar and other schools, any questions with regard to the application of these funds were never considered apart from the general scheme ? — No. 5081. So that you can hardly be prepared to give an opinion as to the improved application of these funds without going into the whole scheme ? — No. The opposition arose chiefly from taking charitable funds and applying them to educational purposes. 5082. But of this last class of mortifications there are a considerable number that you think might be better applied than they are at present ? — Yes ; there are some of them. 5083. It is stated in this report that there are some cases in which bequests are encumbered with such conditions as entail, in the first place, great difficulties in carrying out the intentions of the testators, and also limit the usefulness and benefit of the funds. Are there any of these funds that you are aware of educational ? — There are some funds which it is really difficult to get properly applied. 5084. Can you name which funds you refer to ? — They have passed a good deal out of my mind now since the discussion took place. There is one of £7000 left for establishing and endowing an hospital for aged and indigent men who have been traders in Aberdeen, No. 20, page 20. That has never been appropriated, and it is difficult to say exactly how it could well be appropriated, because the sum left is not sufficient to erect and endow an hospital. That is a specimen of them. 5085. With reference to these different funds for the sustentation of poor orphans and the maintenance of poor orphans, you do not desire any different application of them ? — No ; only a re-arrangement of them. My objection was to taking away funds that had been left for charitable pur- poses, and applying them generally to educational purposes. There may be some funds that are left to charitable purposes, such as the one I have referred to, the application of which it is very difficult to carry out according to the mind of the testator ; and in such cases I think they might very well be separately dealt with. 5086. Mr. Lancaster. — Your last remark does not apply to those under head 3 ?— No. 5087. Your remark applies purely to those under No. 4, to the main- tenance and education of orphans ? — Yes ; these might be re-arranged. 5088. With regard to No. 5, — mortifications for various charitable pur- poses, — would you think that any of these could be with propriety devoted to 442 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- education ? — In answering that question I would first ask you to look at V Dean of 6 ' remar ^ ma( ^ e m the report : 4 It may be remarked that the bursaries Guild to orphans, originally intended for their education and maintenance, are Lewis applied principally for their maintenance.' They are partly for mainte- Sn Baiiie nd nance anc ^ P ar tty for education. If a certain sum could be set aside for Urquhart. maintenance, and a certain sum for education, then they might be divided ; but it is really very difficult to do so. 5089. The Chairman (to Bailie Urquhart). — You were favourable to the scheme that was submitted to the Town Council ? — I was. 5090. With regard to the Guildry funds, would you state the reason why you considered them applicable to education ? — The Guildry funds, as you will observe, were taken up, along with a number of other funds under the charge of the Town Council, to be dealt with in one scheme with the view of simplifying the whole ; and one of the chief objects that we had in making this proposal with reference to the Guildry funds, was to put an end to an interminable discussion and litigation regarding the funds which we had had for so many years in the Town Council. One particular point to which the majority of the Town Council held with reference to the Guildry funds was, that about one-third of these funds, namely, the additional fund to the Guild Box, which amounts to fully one-third of the whole funds, really and legally belonged to the common good of the burgh, and did not belong to the Guildry at all. This, of course, was disputed by the Guildry, or rather, I should say, by the majority of the Guildry ; for although the Dean mentioned that the Guildry were unanimous on a certain point, they were not exactly unanimous. There were myself and several members of Town Council who were members of the Guildry, and a small minority supported the proposals. In consequence of this large sum, as we believed, belonging to the common good of the burgh, our desire and wish was, without litigation, to make a sort of com- promise, by applying that along with other Guildry money to educational purposes, so as to make it for the benefit of the community generally in that direction. Then, again, some of us had a very strong opinion upon the general principle of mortifications for the purpose of supporting poor or comparatively poor individuals. Our impression and belief was, that its tendency altogether was not good, — in short, that it was bad ; we thought it was a right and proper thing for the public good that part of that money should be devoted to the purpose of education, as being a better means of benefiting the poorer classes, — in fact, of preventing poverty, rather than curing it after it had occurred. That was the general principle on which some of us, at all events, proceeded in our proposal to apply a part of the funds, which had hitherto been applied to the relief of poverty, for the pur- pose of education. These were the grounds on which we made this pro- posal, and on which we hoped to be able to carry it through ; but we failed at that time, although, if I recollect right, only by a narrow majority. 5091. With regard to the first of these reasons, do you consider that the Guildry, as a body, had no legal right to these funds ? — Yes ; we believed they had no legal right to the additional fund to the Guild Box, which amounted to about £16,000. 5092. You did not dispute their right to the St. Thomas or Guild Brethren's Hospital fund ? — We did dispute their right to it entirely ; and I don't think they could legally claim it. It was originally founded, as we allege, for the benefit of the poor of the city of Aberdeen, and that after a time the Guildry set up an exclusive claim to it, and appropriated it, after which a considerable portion of the money was left to the hospital under the name of the Guild Brethren's Hospital. The name of MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 443 it was changed to the Guild Brethren's Hospital, but after that it often went under the name of the Town's Hospital, and the Burgh Hospital, as well as Guild Brethren's Hospital, in bequests ; and we have been advised that even these bequests should follow the foundation, and that this fund really belongs to the poor of the city generally. 5093. Then it is a fund which belongs to the poor, which you could not legally apply to any other purpose than the poor? — Yes, I believe so. 5094. But when you engaged in this litigation, it was with the strict rights of the Guildry, and on behalf of the community generally? — Entirely so. 5095. Then you say the Guild brethren would not or did not dispute your right to apply the St. Thomas or Guild Brethren's Hospital funds in the way you proposed? — I believe they have wavered in that. The Dean of Guild latterly, I think, is maintaining that it does legally belong to them still ; but I don't think they are very strong on the point. 5096. How is the fund now applied? — It is applied, and has been applied exclusively, to Guild brethren for upwards of 200 years. 5097. And it is still so applied, notwithstanding the changes in the cir- cumstances of the city ? — It is still so applied. 5098. Then, even if that litigation was determined in your favour, you could not apply any of that fund to education without special powers ? — No. 5099. But on general principles you think that education should stand for charity ? — That was my impression, on general principles, so far as we intended to apply it. 5100. The majority of the Town Council were against you upon that point ? — I think there was a narrow majority against us ; but there was another reason why those of us who were much in favour of it did not press it more strongly, and that was an impression upon our minds at the time, that as something had been said about it in Parliament, a Com- mission was to be appointed to inquire into such funds, and we had some hope that it would be taken up by that Commission, and dealt with by them, and that our hands might be relieved to some extent in conse- quence of public action in the matter. 5101. You say that the minority had a strong feeling against mortifica- tions of that nature, on account of their bad tendency. Did that apply to all mortifications to charitable purposes, or to any special abuses with regard to this fund? — When I say charitable purposes, I mean such purposes generally. I know there are very various opinions on that point ; and I hold, perhaps, more extreme views on that subject than most of the other members of the Town Council. I believe they are bad in tendency altogether. 5102. With regard to the other class of mortifications to various charit- able purposes, were you anxious to throw them into this general fund upon the same grounds as those you have already stated with regard to the Guildry ? — Yes ; upon entirely the same grounds. 5103. You proposed, however, to maintain a certain number of charities under this scheme? — Yes. 5104. But there were to be no pensions, saving existing interests ? — Yes ; only those which existed. 5105. Were there any annuities to be maintained ? — Not except those of £10 a year to necessitous men and women. 5106. But you would keep up a certain number of these annuities? Would you state how that would be consistent with your general principle that the tendency of all these mortifications was bad ? — That is simply answered, so far as I am concerned. The distribution of that sum of £500, Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 444 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. which was afterwards altered to £750 with the view of gaining some votes, was to be made on a similar principle to that on which we distribute the Guildry funds at present ; and when I say that it was altered to £750 with the view of gaining some votes, I may say that the fact of putting in a sum at all was simply a compromise on my part, and on the part at least of one or two others. 5107. You would rather have had the whole applied in the way you wished, but you hesitated to apply your principle fully in the hope of coming to an amicable agreement in the Town Council ? — Yes. We were getting the most we could ; that was my feeling in the matter. 5108. Supposing the present Commission does not consider itself entitled to deal with these special charitable funds, but that it can only consider the questions as to the endowments for the Grammar School, and for the maintenance of orphans and others, would you in that case be prepared to apply these funds generally, in so far as they would go, to the furtherance of that particular scheme that was laid down, or that the whole scheme would fall through unless you could carry it out completely ? I under- stand you have never considered these special educational endowments, or the better application of them, apart from the question of the Guildry funds and the Guild Box ? — We have not. We would probably have had the same difficulties to go through, with a comparatively small result, if we had taken up that small point, which we did not do. 5109. Mr. Parker. — In the English Endowed Schools Act there were powers given to the executive Commission to deal with funds of a some- what similar character, provided they got the concurrence of the managers of those funds. Should you think such a power worth having if you could not get the power absolutely ? — I think so. 5110. Would you think it worth while to apply for such a power to empower the Town Council to deal with such funds ? — Yes. I think it would be a matter of very great importance indeed, because you might call it a permissive measure ; and I think it is not wise generally to carry out a large measure of that kind unless we have the public feeling to a considerable extent in favour of it. And when the feeling came round, which I think probable, it would be of importance to have such a power. 5111. Therefore you would only wish to have a power like that given in the Endowed Schools Act, that, with the concurrence of the governing body, which in this case is the Town Council, these funds might be applied more or less towards educational objects ? — Yes ; that would be in accord- ance with my views. 5112. And the whole of these funds, whatever they are, are under one head in this respect, that they are all managed by the Town Council ? — Yes. 5113. And by the Town Council solely? — Yes; by the Town Council solely. We did not attempt to deal with any money except what was under our own control. 5114. The restriction of the Guild Brethren's Hospital to the Guild brethren rests solely, does it not, upon the resolution of the Town Council of 1609, and upon their opinion at that time that the fund legally belonged to them? — That refers to the first branch of the Guildry money— the Guild Brethren's Hospital. We believe it rests upon that entirely. 5115. And the original funds of that hospital are of very early date, dating back long before that? — Yes; in 1459 they were founded by Canon Clatt. 5116. If the Town Council at this time were proceeding to apply these funds more extensively, would there probably be a litigation about them ? Would that application probably be resisted ?— If we were to apply them MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 445 heyond the Guildry, I think it is almost certain that there would be a litigation about them. 5117. I suppose one great object you had in view in this scheme was organization and simplification of the different funds under your control ? —That was one very important object that we had in view. 5118. Was it found practically embarrassing to have these funds broken up under so many heads, with different restrictions under each head ? I am speaking now of those more properly applicable to education? — Yes; and that was also the case with the bursaries. There are many of the bursaries that we have really great difficulty in getting proper parties to give them to. There have been some cases in which we have not had an applicant at all. 5119. I suppose that sometimes they are too small for the purpose for which they were intended! — Yes ; and we have had occasions when they have been refused by parties who would, I believe, have been very proper parties to receive a bursary, but the sum was not sufficient for their pur- pose : they could not go on with so small a sum. 5120. I suppose you are strongly of opinion that this money in the educational funds might produce much more public good if it were re- arranged ? — That was our very decided opinion. 5121. Are you of opinion that the non-educational funds are, upon the whole, an advantage, or the reverse, to the city of Aberdeen? — I am decidedly of opinion that they are the reverse of an advantage. 5122. In what way do you consider that they operate to the disadvan- tage of the community ? — I think the general effect is to undermine the spirit of independence in a great many people. A very considerable num- ber of people who apply for the benefit of these funds seem to look forward to and depend upon them, and to hope that their friends in power will get something for them to support them. Its general tendency is to produce a feeling of that kind in the minds of a number of people, who look forward to such help and support. 5123. Does the number of persons deriving income from these Guildry funds bear any large proportion to the total number of the Guild brethren ? — A very large proportion at present. 5124. And do the advantages from the funds sometimes go to those who are in no especial need of them ? — There are a good many cases of that kind. For instance, we continued to give £12 a year to a burgess of Guild for a good many years, until we saw it announced in the newspapers one morning that he had given £600 for the benefit of the Infirmary. 5125. Are these funds given to burgesses and their descendants and widows, without any reference to the place of their residence ? — Hitherto they have been. 5126. Do any considerable number of them reside away from Aber- deen ? — There are a considerable portion of them who reside in England, and several of them in Canada and the United States. 5127. Do you think it probable that if the power were only permissive to the Town Council to propose schemes for a different application of these funds, the Town Council would avail themselves of it ? — I think we would get them educated up to it very shortly ; at least I hope so. 5128. Mr. Lancaster. — When you said to the chairman that you did not approve of charities being granted to the relief of distress, you would not, I presume, include charities for the relief of physical distress, such as infirmaries ? — If I made a general statement of that kind, it is not exactly what I meant to say. I referred to mortifications left for the purpose of being distributed for such objects. 5129. For poverty '?— Yes. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 446 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 5130. But you would not include under your principle endowments for the support of infirmaries, or a deaf and dumb school, or for physical distress of that kind ? — I object to endowments. My principle is, that these should be supported chiefly by voluntary subscriptions, and that mortifications left for such purposes should be left in order to be distri- buted within a given number of years, and not tied up in the way of perpetual endowments. 5131. Your principle is generally opposed to all mortifications, but, of course, less to mortifications of the character I have been describing than to mortifications for the support of indigent people ? — I don't know that I quite see your distinction. 5132. Suppose a person were to leave a sum of money for the endow- ment of an infirmary, you would think that a less objectionable thing than leaving a sum of money for the support of indigent persons in Aberdeen ? — Yes ; much less. You are quite right in supposing that I object to mortifications generally, the interest of which only is to be applied to a purpose. 5133. But you draw a distinction of the kind I have been pointing out ? — Distinctly. At the same time, I think it is quite proper for people to leave money for charitable purposes, if it is distributed within a reasonable time, and not tied up. 5134. That arises, I suppose, from a fear in your mind that the tying up may, from particular changes in society, and such other causes, lead to misapplication of the funds? — I think it impossible that it cannot lead to abuses. But I should add that I think endowments are wrong in principle, because I believe it to be the duty as well as the privilege of every generation to support and even to educate its own poor. 5135. I see in the suggestions here made for the bursaries at Aberdeen, one of the rules is that they should be given by public competition, accord- ing to the merit of the competitors ? — Yes. 5136. And then it is added, 4 The bursaries and scholarships to be subject to such conditions and restrictions as the Town Council may think expedient/ What was meant by that condition ? — To the best of my recollection, it refers to this, — at all events some of us had this in our minds, — that although we were to give the bursary or scholarship to the best competitor as a general rule, still the best might be the son of a wealthy person, to whom it would be on that account improper or injudicious to give it. 5137. You would not, however, be disposed to carry that sort of capri- cious selection, if I may so term it, to any great length : you would make merit the ruling consideration? — Yes, it would be the ruling thing. I think that is a fair statement to make. 5138. What do you say with regard to restrictions in the case of such bursaries to name or to locality ? Would you be disposed to observe these ? — I think these should not be observed. I consider that they are contrary to public advantage. 5139. And should, so far as possible, be disregarded? — Yes. 5140. {To Lord Provost Leslie). — Do you concur in that view, that such restrictions in giving bursaries should be disregarded ? — It is difficult to say. I think the law to a certain extent should protect the wishes of the founder. 5141. {To Bailie Urquhart).— 'May we take it that the statements of fact in the paper which has been produced are substantially correct ? — Yes. 5142. {To Lord Provost Leslie). — Do you concur in that, — that these MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 447 statements of fact are substantially correct? — I believe they are, without the conclusions. 5143. The Chairman (to Dean of Guild Smith). — Would you state what opinions you have to give with regard to the question of these Guildry funds ? — The first statement in Bailie Urquhart's evidence that startled me was the charge that the Additional Fund did not belong to the Guildry. What is called the Guild Brethren's Hospital has an extremely obscure origin ; but all that can be learned about it is comprised in a pamphlet published by me, which contains an index to the authorities, which I have quite ready here, but which could not be gone into to-day. These will describe it from the foundation. Instead of dating it so far back as Canon Clatt, they date it only in 1600, upon a minute of the Town Council to be found in the Council Register of that date. The Guildry claim it as belonging to them ; and ever since it was instituted it has always been applied exclusively for their behoof, along with the other two funds, the Guild Box and the Additional Fund. The right to the revenue from these funds was settled by an Act of Declarator in 1870, finding that they are held by the Town Council in trust for the Guildry and their widows and families ; and immediately after, in the Municipality Extension Act of 1871, it is expressly declared that nothing in that Act contained shall prejudice or affect any lands, property, or funds belonging to the Guildry of Aberdeen, or the burgesses of Guild of Aberdeen, or held by the Town Council in trust for the said burgesses of Guild, or the widows of the said burgesses of Guild, or for the said burgesses or widows in conjunction with other persons or bodies, or alter the appropriation or application of these interests or revenues of the said lands, property, and funds ; but that after the passing of that Act, the said lands, property, and funds, and the interest and revenues thereof, shall be held, administered, and applied to and for the same trust uses and purposes as the said lands, property, funds, interest, and revenues were held, administered, and applied previous to the passing of that Act. 5144. Bailie Urquhart did not go into the legal question ; he only stated that it was a matter in dispute. We do not wish to go into the several grounds on either side as to the legality of the matter. — Well, we just claim that the whole of these funds are the property of the bur- gesses exclusively. 5145. And that they cannot be alienated without their consent? — Yes. 5146. What were your reasons for opposing this scheme on behalf of the Guildry ? — I understand your question to apply equally to the other mor- tifications, for the maintenance and education of orphans and others, which are included in Nos. 4 and 5. 5147. Yes ? — I hold the opinion most decidedly, that funds mortified for any special purpose ought to be applied as closely as it is possible to do to these purposes. 5148. Mr. Sellar. — For all time? — Certainly, if it is the will of the donor. 5149. The Chairman. — Unless it is abused ? — Yes. With regard to the question whether any injury is done by the application of the revenues of the Guildry, I may mention that in December 1871 the funds were allocated to 34 burgesses, 90 widows, and 170 children; and the highest sum given to a man was £12, to a widow £8, and to an orphan £4. Now, I do not think any injury is done to these parties by these payments being made to them. 5150. And that was your ground for opposing the scheme for an altera- tion that was proposed by Mr. Barclay ? — Yes; as a misapplication of the funds. Lord Pro- vost Leslie, Dean of Guild Lewis Smith, and Bailie Urquhart. 448 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor George G. Ramsay, examined. Professor 5151. The Chairman. — You are Professor of Humanity in the University G Ba°X£- of Glasgow ?-I am. 5152. You have given much attention to the question of bursaries in Arts as connected with the University of Glasgow and the universities of Scotland generally ? — I have. 5153. And also to the secondary education in Scotland in relation to the universities ! — Yes. 5154. Would you state, with regard to the University bursaries, whether you think they are in a satisfactory position, or whether you desire any change upon them ? — I do not think they are in a satisfactory position. 5155. In what respect? — Because the greater part of the bursaries are presentation bursaries, and not given by competition or by any kind of rational selection. 5156. You object to such bursaries being in private patronage? Do you say generally with regard to private patronage that it is unsatisfac- tory? — Generally it is ; but I should not say it was so in all cases. I could imagine a kind of private patronage which would be good. 5157. The Commission is limited in its inquiry to cases that are not dealt with by the University Commission ; and in any remarks you have to make on special cases, you will, of course, confine yourself to those that have not been already adjudicated upon. — Quite so. 5158. Would you state what defects exist at present in the system of nomination for bursaries ? — The most serious defect is the small number of competition bursaries. The principal bursaries in the Faculty of Arts may be classified as follows : 1. Open to unrestricted competition, 22, of the united value of £296 a year. 2. Bursaries which are competed for at the University, but under restrictions as to locality, — as, for instance, bursaries founded by county societies, — 8 bursaries, of the united value of £270 a year. 3. Bursaries under similar restrictions, not at present com- peted for, but which may, by the mere consent of the patrons, be put upon the same footing as those in No. 2, — 6 bursaries, of the united value of £71 a year. 4. Bursaries in the patronage of public bodies, — the Town Council or Magistrates, or the Merchants' House, or the Trades' House, and in one case the Convener Court of Stirling. These are old foundations, and they have not been revised lately except in one or two cases. They are mostly restricted to sons of burgesses, members of guilds, etc. They are nine in number, of the united value of £28 a year. 5. Bursaries in the patronage of private individuals, 20, of the united value of £480 a year. To illustrate the results produced by these different modes of appointment, I have prepared a table, showing the career in the University of the holders of these various bursaries for a period of ten years, from 1860 to 1870. In that table I have omitted some of the bursaries, but I have included those which I considered the most important for the purposes of the Commission, and especially those not reported upon by the University Commissioners. Of the private bur- saries, the most important are the Dundonald and the Hamilton. The Dundonald bursaries are of two kinds ; there is one set in Arts (the term used in the deeds, etc. is Philosophy), and one in Divinity. The Arts bursaries are of the value of £40 a year each, and are tenable for four years. The Divinity bursaries are tenable for two years, and are of the value of £41, 2s. 6d. a year. 5159. These were not reported upon? — They were not. They are MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 449 regulated by an Act of Parliament, obtained in 1858 for the purpose of Professor authorizing an increase in the number of the bursaries out of the accumu- George G. lation of surplus funds. But the Act made no change in the mode of amsa y ' appointment or the conditions of tenure. 5160. It was in consequence of that Act that these bursaries did not come under the consideration of the University Commission, as being of too recent date ? — It was. 5161. Although that Act merely made some alteration as to the appli- cation of the funds, the original endowments were of considerable age? — Yes ; and the original provisions were minutely adhered to. Thus, as there were originally seven bursaries, — four in philosophy and three in divinity, — the Act, while increasing the number to twelve, provides that the number of Arts bursars, as compared with Divinity bursars, shall be in the proportion, as nearly as possible, of four to three. It is obvious that so long as the bursaries are twelve in number, this condition cannot be adhered to. Again, it preserves the old restriction as to the order in which the classes must be taken, requiring the bursar to take Greek the first year, Logic the second, and so on — a requirement inconsistent with the system laid down by the Commissioners, because it fetters the student to a particular order of classes, and inter- feres with his taking the full course for his degree in the order most con- venient or desirable for himself. The second important class is the Hamilton bursaries. Of these there are six, of £20 a year for six years, — tenable three years in Arts — the first in the logic class, the next year in moral philosophy, next year in natural philosophy — and in Divinity also for three years, when they become worth £25 a year. These two sets of bursaries are in the gift of the Duke of Hamilton. They were founded by Anne, Duchess of Hamilton, in 1694. The Dundonald bursaries were founded by William, first Earl of Dundonald, and Lord Cochran, his son, in 1673 ; they were assigned to Mr. W. Hamilton, writer, Edin- burgh, in the beginning of this century; and after three or four years the patronage of them was disposed of by him to the Duke of Hamilton. The next set of bursaries are the Exchequer bursaries, which are practi- cally in the patronage of the Senate. They were not reported upon by the Commissioners. The conditions of tenure are the same as those of the Hamilton bursaries. They are intended for divinity students, and should be held three years in Arts and three years in Divinity. 5162. Who do you say are the patrons of these bursaries? — Properly speaking, the Treasury. The Senate send up annually a list of six names, and the Treasury chooses the name first on the list, so that practically the appointment is by the Senate, although nominally it is by the Treasury. I may mention one evil with regard to both of these foundations (the Hamilton and Exchequer), which is, that they should be held by intending divinity students ; but, as a matter of fact, it is not easy to enforce this condition, and the result is that many of the holders of the Hamilton or Exchequer bursaries do not go through the divinity course. My sugges- tion would be that the Divinity bursaries should be entirely separated from the Arts bursaries, and that there should be a separate competition for each. 5163. Mr. Ramsay. — Are the six names which you send to the Treasury determined by competition ? — They are practically so at present ; but during the period to which my figures apply, the names were selected without examination. We are obliged by the deed to nominate in the month of August, and our competition for bursaries is held in November. What we do now is, to place first on the list to the Treasury in the month of August the student who stood next to the last of the successful candi- dates in the previous November ; so that, as a matter of fact, the Ex- 2 F 450 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor chequer bursary is gained in the one year by the first of the unsuccessful George G. candidates in the competition of the previous year. amsay ' 5164. The Chairman. — Were the Exchequer bursaries under the con- sideration of the Commissioners ? — I think not. They were not reported upon. Then, fourth, there are the Competition bursaries, some of which were put on that footing by the Commissioners, some by the Senate. Fifth, there are the bursaries in the gift of the public bodies which were left untouched by the Commissioners ; these much need alteration, because they are small in amount, and encumbered with restrictions. Thus there are five heads in my table, — the Dundonald and Hamilton, in the gift of the Duke of Hamilton ; the Exchequer, which are in the pat- ronage of the Senate, but have not been given by competition until this year, so that the facts which I give with regard to the Exchequer bur- saries will illustrate the result of the Senate's patronage; fourth, the Competition bursaries ; and fifth, the bursaries in the gift of public bodies. I have taken every one of the holders of these bursaries for a period of ten years. First, having ascertained what classes he at- tended in each year, I obtained from each professor an account of the manner in which each of these students had acquitted himself in his class. I did not inform the professors to which class of bursars the students belonged. The students have been ranged in four classes,— the first being Good, including all the prizemen and those who were considered to come up to the first class of merit; second, Fair, better than the average ; third, Respectable, showing those who obtained their certificate and nothing more ; and fourth, those who were Bad, and who did no work of any value. Good, Fair, Passable, and Bad are the four classes. I have also a list of all the prizes which these students obtained, both in the classes and in the University, and of the degrees which any of them have taken. The return is not quite complete, because in some cases the professors have been appointed since the ten years began, and they had not the books of their predecessors; there are consequently some lacunce. These locunce, however, in no way affect the proportion, as they apply to all the classes of bursaries equally. The results are as follows : During 10 years there have been 23 holders of the Dundonald bursaries. These bursars have obtained during that time 20 places in the first rank, 37 in the second, 28 in the third, and 37 in the fourth. Of the Hamilton bursaries, which are on the same footing, there have been 14 holders in the 10 years ; they obtained between them 10 first-class certificates, 16 second, 13 third, and 10 fourth. Adding these two together, the Hamilton and the Dun- donald, the results are, that 37 bursars obtained 30 first-grade certificates, 53 second, 41 third, and 47 fourth. Next, with regard to the Exchequer bursaries, which are in the patronage of the Senate, not awarded by com- petition, there have been, as in the case of the Hamilton bursaries, exactly 14 holders, so that they afford a good comparison. These obtained 58 first-grade places (while the same number of Hamilton bursars only gained 10), 12 second, 8 had third, and none had fourth. 5165. Has that been since the competition? — No ; that was before the competition. The results I have now given were under the system of presentation by the Senate. Candidates of the requisite standing sent in their names as candidates, the names were brought up before the Senate, and the different professors reported on them ; there was no examination. 5166. Were they at that time actually students at the University? — Yes ; candidates were required to be in the logic class. 5167. Did the Senate receive a report upon the applicants ? — Yes ; especially from the professors of Latin and Greek. Next come the Com- petition bursars. Of these there were 29 in the 10 years; they obtained MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 451 100 first-grade places, 46 second, 12 third, and 5 fourth. Adding these p ro fessor to the Exchequer bursaries, there were 43 bursars who obtained between George G. them 158 first-grade places, 58 second, 20 third, and 5 fourth. Of the Ramsay - bursars in the patronage of public bodies there were 19, who obtained 10 places of the first grade, 24 of the second, 31 of the third, and 17 of the fourth. Next take the number of prizes carried off by the different classes of bursars. Here my information is complete for the whole of the 10 years. In that time the 23 Dundonald bursars gained 31 prizes, the 14 Hamilton bursars 10 prizes (and 8 of these were gaiued by one student). Thus the 37 bursars presented by the Duke of Hamilton gained between them in the 10 years 41 prizes, or, on the average, a frac- tion over one prize a-piece. The 14 Exchequer bursars (presented without examination by the Senate) gained 72 prizes in the same time, or a frac- tion over 5 prizes a-piece. The 29 Competition bursars gained 176 prizes between them, or, on an average, 6 prizes each. Lastly, lowest of all, come the bursars presented by public bodies, of whom 19 gained 5 prizes, i.e. at the rate of about a fourth of a prize each. Putting the thing in a different way, and looking at the amount of money given to the bursars, you will find that the Dundonald and Hamilton bursars have received in the 10 years a gross sum of £3800, and have obtained 41 prizes, being at the rate of £108 per prize. The Competition and Ex- chequer bursars have received a total sum of £1500 and obtained 248 prizes, being at the rate of £6, 8s. 6d. per prize. As regards the bursaries in Divinity, the results are somewhat similar. For instance, of the Dun- donald bursars there have been 19 admissions in 10 years, of whom 6 have been prizemen, but only one in the first class of prizemen. Of the Hamilton bursars in divinity there have been 12 since 1860, of whom 6 have been prizemen, but only one in the first rank of prizemen. Of the Exchequer bursaries in the patronage of the Senate there have been 13, of whom 9 have been prizemen. In the various other small bursaries appointed by the Town Council and other bodies there have been 15 bursars, of whom 13 have been prizemen. Of Competition bursars there have been 22 appointments ; of these, 18 were prizemen. These last must all be M.A.'s ; and it has been suggested by our divinity faculty, that in the case of all divinity bursaries it would be a good guarantee of merit if every holder were required to be an M.A., as the M.A.'s in fact carry off almost all the prizes in the divinity faculty. 5168. What conclusion do you draw from these figures? — That the Presentation bursaries are not only not given to average students, but that, as matter of fact, they fall, as a rule, to students below the average in point of ability and work. 5169. How do you account for their being below the average? — ■ Because, as a matter of fact, the bursars are not selected on any prin- ciple. They are obtained by private influence, and no pains whatever are taken to see whether the presentees are students of merit. The result is that, with rare exceptions, they fall to students of less than the average capacity and merit. You asked me just now whether I would approve of private patronage in any case. If a patron is specially interested in his bursaries — if he cared about a particular district, and took pains to ask for names only of deserving boys to be sent up to him from each parish, recommended by the parish minister, or by the school- master of some school — and if he took the trouble to inquire into the circumstances of the candidates, and satisfy himself not only that they were poor, but that they were likely to turn a university education to account, the money might be usefully applied, and a deserving class of students would be helped ; but, as at present administered, our Presentation 452 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor bursaries are of little or no educational value to the University. They George G. are gi ve n, without scrutiny of merit, to those students whose friends can amsay. -faring influence to bear in the proper quarter. The Dundonald and Hamilton bursaries are, I understand, usually secured through Mr. Padwick, or the Duke of Hamilton's factor. The Duke's factor, to whom I spoke on the subject, informed me that the Duke valued these bursaries very much, as they afforded him the means of helping his tenants and other persons residing on his property. But I find that scarcely more than one-third of the bursars appointed during the last ten years belong to places in which the Duke is interested as a proprietor. 5170. Do you attribute the low qualification of these students to a mistake in the original selection, or to their position as bursars leading them to neglect their studies while at the University ? — Principally to the former cause. But I am inclined to think that some of these bursars have been induced to attend the University for the sake of holding the bursaries. 5171. That is, for their maintenance ? — Yes ; that they went there for the sake of the money, and attended one class each year to enable them to draw the £40. Yery few of the Hamilton and Dundonald bursars go through the entire course. 5172. But they are bound to attend a certain number? — They were bound by the deed to attend one in each year ; but the Senate about three years ago passed a new regulation, binding the holder of every bursary to attend at least two curriculum classes every year. If a student only attends one, he loses his bursary. 5173. Has the University no power to prevent them from receiving persons of that low standard of qualification ? — I believe not. I believe the University has not legally the power to institute an examination for bursars, and to decline to admit presentees on failure to pass it. There never has been any examination specially for Presentation bursars. 5174. Do they not pass an entrance examination? — There is no entrance examination for students. With regard to the bursaries in the hands of public bodies, again, they are, in the first place, very small in amount, and they are not managed specially in the interests of edu- cation. They fall vacant at odd times. They may be advertised, but the vacancies are not widely known ; and I believe there is a scarcity of applications. There is no competition ; there is no systematic sifting into the merits of the candidates. 5175. Are you speaking from personal knowledge when you say that the number of applications is very small ? — I am. I am a joint elector to one bursary myself, and on the last occasion when it was filled up there were only two candidates. I suggested a competition. The majority approved of the suggestion. One thought it might be a good thing in future, but not for this occasion ; and it turned out that he was interested in one of the candidates. Some of these bursaries are only worth £4 or £5 or £6 a year. 5176. That is a case in which you would recommend a consolidation of some of the bursaries ? — Yes. 5177. Some of these cases were considered by the former Commission? — Some of those in the hands of public bodies in Glasgow were considered, but none of those included in my report. 5178. To what extent would you recommend that they should be con- solidated? — I would not have any bursary of smaller amount than £15 a year. I think, on the whole, they should be as much as £20, because unless a bursary is of a certain value, it does not attract sufficient atten- tion. I would also have all these bursaries competed for along with the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 453 other bursaries. Then, I think that all restrictions to sons of burgesses, Professor craftsmen, etc. should be abolished. If the Town Council, and other G 601 ^ 6 ^- bodies of a similar character, are to retain the patronage in any form, I amsa y ' would suggest that the whole bursaries in the gift of these different bodies should be thrown together, so as to make two or three good bursaries, and that the patrons be required to nominate a certain number, whom they should ascertain to be students of merit and in need of help, and let the Senate appoint the best of the number so nominated. These nominees should come up for the annual bursary competition, and the best of the number be appointed after examination. 5179. Have they power at present to do that ? — Yes. 5180. And if they were to be selected in that way they would probably take more care in the selection? — I think they might; but my impression is, that public bodies appointed for other purposes are unfit to deal with educational matters. 5181. But your idea is that the bursaries should all be open to compe- tition? — Yes; either absolutely open competition or restricted competi- tion. 5182. You would propose limiting the number of candidates to be pre- sented for competition ? — Yes; as a means of combining the principles of patronage and competition. For instance, if, instead of the present restrictions, it were provided that the candidates must have been edu- cated in a public school in Glasgow, and out of those educated at such schools, autl who were in necessitous circumstances, six or eight were sent up to our annual competition to compete for one particular bursary, I think that would be a modification of the patronage which would do what the founders of these bursaries really wished to be done with their money, and at the same time secure that the students sent up to the University were deserving students. 5183. Would you have any rules with regard to the examination of persons applying for the bursaries ? Would not that meet the case suffi- ciently to check any abuse ? — Do you mean if we were to institute an examination which those applying for bursaries would have to pass ? 5184. If the University were authorized to have a standard examina- tion, which no pupil should be presented as a bursar without having to pass? — I think that if we were able legally to establish such an examina- tion, it would do a great deal of good. 5185. And without the examination being of too stringent a character, you would insure a higher standard of scholarship to qualify for the bursary ? — If the standard were high enough to make a real difference, it would practically amount to open competition. I could illustrate the practical working of entrance examinations by some figures which I have here, showing the average standard of qualification of our first-year students. 5186. I have one more question to put to you as to bursaries, and then we may come to that question as to examination. In the case of the presentation bursaries, are they sufficient in number to be an impediment to the teaching in the University, when taken in connection with the low standard of qualification which you say their holders possess ? Do they act to the disadvantage of the classes, and interfere with the standard of instruction ? — They do so in this way, that they add to the number of students who come up to the University unsufficiently prepared. But there are others as poorly qualified Who have got no bursaries. So far as bursaries are a means of sending up to the universities students not sufficiently qualified, they do harm. 5187. They are not sufficiently numerous to give a tone to the class? — 454 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor I do not think they are, except to this extent, that the class of students ^amsa 0 ' to wn * cn tne y k e l° n g do gi ye a tone to & If a dozen or twenty im- amt>ay * perfectly prepared students join a class, they give a tone to it. 5188. But there are other evils which keep down the tone of the classes, to which you are to refer presently ? — There are ; but bursaries should be so administered as to be a means of raising the tone of the classes they enter. The bursars should be the honours men of the University. 5189. You had some remarks to make with regard to entrance ex- aminations? — Yes; with regard to the entrance examinations to the University, and the state of preparation of the students who come up to the University, both from primary and secondary schools. I have for some time been anxious to see a general entrance examination established in all the universities ; and I believe, that although there would be difficulties at first, a satisfactory examination might in time be established. We would have to work our way gently and not too hurriedly, and in the course of time the standard might be raised to a point which would raise the work of our classes. But to make this possible, the teaching of the schools throughout the country, whether secondary or primary, must be much improved. To show this, I may mention that I have had in my class for two years an entrance examination exactly of the kind which it would be suitable to institute as the Latin part of the entrance examination. The examination is advertised in the calendar, and students are expected to pass it. The examination is in accidence and syntax, with passages to translate from English into Latin, and similar passages to translate from Latin into English — all of a simple and elementary kind. The examination is not compulsory, except in this way, that if students do not pass it when they enter, I expect them to pass an examination of a similar kind later on in the session. In 1870-71 the total number who passed was 90 ; the total number plucked was 77. Those who did not pass the examination, therefore, were not far short of one-half. In the second year the proportions were somewhat similar. 5190. Was this in the junior class? — Yes ; in the junior Humanity class. In the second year, when the standard was made lower if anything, the total number of passes was 88, and of plucked 64, the proportions being- very much the same in the two years. I keep a register of the schools at which each student has studied for several years preceding ; and I find that, out of the total of 90 who passed, 50 came from secondary schools, 38 from primary schools, and /2 were educated abroad or privately. Of those who were plucked, 29 came from secondary schools, 40 from ele- mentary schools, and 8 were educated abroad or privately, making a total of 77. These figures show a very inferior state of preparation on the part of the students coming from our secondary schools. I am strongly impressed with the extremely defective character of the educa- tion given in our secondary schools as a whole. 5191. That is, in those branches which come up to the University? — Yes ; and these are a very fair test of the whole. It is surprising how many students there are who have passed some years at secondary schools without carrying away with them any sound or accurate know- ledge of what they have been taught. 5192. Have you contrasted the students who have come from different secondary schools, so as to draw a conclusion with regard to the respec- tive schools ? — I could do so, but my remarks apply, more or less, to the schools as a whole. 5193. I don't want you to specify names? — I should prefer not to do so. 5194. What are they examined in? — Accidence, syntax, with simple MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 455 translation and re-translation. One reason for the failure of many was, Professor no doubt, their want of practice in examinations. In my own class this ^^y*' year, there were 52 students who told me they had never done an exami- nation paper. 5195. Are you speaking now of students who came to you from the secondary schools ? — These last were no doubt principally from elementary schools. Of the 90 who passed, 50 came from secondary schools and 38 from primary schools. 29 of those who were plucked came from second- ary schools, and some of these have been six or seven years at secondary schools which are considered to rank high. Of the 50 who passed, one-half came from two schools, the Academy and the High School in Glasgow, which are the two best schools there. 5196. To what do you attribute that deficiency of the students who come from secondary schools ? — I attribute it to several causes : First, the whole system of promotion in our Scotch schools, or rather the absence of promotion, is wrong. Secondly, the system by which a schoolmaster is supported entirely or principally by his fees, I consider to be very injurious to the interests of education. Thirdly, there is a want of proper organization in the schools — there is no govern- ment—each master is practically competing with his neighbour. And lastly, there is no inspection on the part of the public or the Govern- ment. There is no publicity about these schools ; nobody knows what work they do ; there is no standard to compare them with ; there is no means of finding out whether a school is good or bad ; and the classes in many cases are too large. 5197. Would you state what bearing you consider these conclusions to have upon our general inquiry? — They establish the unsatisfactory nature of the results obtained even in our best middle-class schools. Without naming particular schools, I state confidently that the state of preparation of the students who come up to my class year by year is sufficient to prove that our secondary school system stands in need of radical reform. The results it produces are extremely poor. The mate- rial, both in teachers and in taught, is excellent ; it is the system which is defective. The distribution of the fees is vicious, because it makes each master dependent upon the number of boys he can get to his class ; and this makes it difficult, if not impossible, to introduce any of the needed reforms, whether to reduce the size of the classes, to promote boys according to their proficiency, or to pay the teachers according to their qualifica- tions. In the High School of Glasgow, I was informed on good authority some years ago that the writing master made about £1600 a year: the masters who taught Latin made no more than £400 or £500. Where the master is thus dependent on his fees, no change, however desirable, can be introduced which may have the effect of diminishing the size of a class without pecuniary loss to the teacher. Were the teacher made independent of his fees, or nearly so, his interest would not be opposed to any adjustment of his class which might tend to promote efficient teach- ing. Thus both the proper organization of the school, and the introduc- tion of a healthy system of promotion by merit instead of by mere seniority, would be facilitated by a change in the present system of apportioning the fees. Then inspection and examination are much needed. There is no inspection of secondary schools in Scotland. Few of them are even examined by independent examiners. And when examinations are held, — as in the Academies of Glasgow and Edinburgh, — the results are not made public. I believe this to be a mistake. The public would justly feel confidence in a school which was bold enough to allow even an unfavourable report to be published. 456 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor 5198. These cases where the masters are paid by the fees are, you think, ^ or ^ e G - vicious ? — Yes ; that is my opinion. dTa ^ ' 5199. The greater number of the burgh schools have some endowments, have they not ? — Yes ; but they are very small. In the case of the High School they are only about £500 or £600 a year. 5200. Could these schools be re-organized in the way you wish without any additional endowments ? — A little money would do a great deal. It would not cost much to have all these schools inspected and examined. I think that two or four examiners might examine all the public secondary schools of Scotland, as well as such private schools as might choose to put themselves under examination ; and I am quite sure that after the lapse of time the public would have much more confidence in those schoo!s which were regularly examined than in those which were not. 5201. Do you think that in any change that maybe made, the question of the examination of these schools is a matter of the first importance 1 — I do ; and along with this should be made a change in the system of fees and of promotion. In a Scotch school, all the boys of a class are pro- moted at the end of the year, without reference to their proficiency ; and so they go on, one year after another, and always under one master. The only promotion is by seniority. There are two evils in that system : first, that a boy encounters no fresh competitors to stimulate his energies year after year ; and secondly, he does not get the stimulus of being taught by a new master, which is quite as great a stimulus as being pitted against new boys. At Rugby, where I was educated, I passed through the school from the bottom to the top ; and I remember the highly stimulating effect of having to approve myself to a new master on each promotion. Every master has his own way of teaching, his own special- ties and tendencies, which boys are quick enough to learn. To leave a boy for five or six years under one master, however good, is to deprive him of one of the greatest advantages of school life. Still more is that the case if a boy is only promoted equally with all his class-fellows, in place of finding new boys introduced and pitted against him. If a boy is once dux, he remains dux every year; he need make no exertion to retain his superiority. 5202. Do you connect that system of promotion with the system of pay- ing fees ? — Yes ; because the master considers he has a right to a certain number of boys. If you prevent him from carrying all his scholars on with him, and say that in the following year he shall only have, say, twenty-five boys in his class instead of fifty, then he loses his twenty-five fees ; and that is a thing you cannot carry out under the present system. But even this difficulty would almost disappear in time, as the system would gradually right itself. 5203. In speaking of examination, did you mean Government examin- ation ? — If the Government would undertake the inspection of schools, as was originally proposed under the English Endowed Schools Act, I would prefer that to any other form. As for the expense, if Government would not pay for it, money might be taken for the purpose from existing endow- ments. In Glasgow there are some £10,000 or £20,000 a year of endowments which might be applied to educational purposes, and money should be spent in doing what the Education Act fails to do. Whatever points there are in education which the Act fails to meet should be met by endowment, regard being had, so far as possible, to the wishes of the founders. When the mortifications for Hutcheson's school and others were founded, there was no elementary education provided by law, or at any rate no sufficient provision, and there was a need which those monies supplied. Now, however, as public education has been provided at the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 457 expense of the State, those endowments should rather go to supplement Professor the money spent by the State, in various ways, — either by providing, as is G ^?^ \ G * provided in Hutcheson's will, that such boys as showed talent in the parish amsa y- or other schools should be taken on to the secondary schools; or by paying for inspection and examination in public schools not inspected under the Act ; or in establishing a technical college, such as is pro- posed in Glasgow at present ; or for any other educational purpose in the town or district for which the endowment was left, the money being applied to fill a gap in the existing application of Government money. Applying that to Glasgow, I should spend some of these endowments in inspection and examination, in increasing the salaries of the masters, or in providing additional masterships, either at the High School or other schools in which secondary instruction is given. 5204. Which endowments do you speak of? — Such endowments as may be available in Glasgow. There are a large number of endowments there, many of which have as yet never been put into operation. 5205. Do you mean educational endowments ? — Yes. One of the most important of all is the Hutcheson's Hospital endowment, out of which, according to the Act obtained last session, as much as £6000 or £8000 a year might be employed for the purposes of education. I should like to see endowments like these spent in increasing the salaries of the teachers in higher subjects in those secondary schools in Glasgow, to which children who had received a good preparatory education in elementary schools could be sent; secondly, in bearing the expenses of examination and inspection ; thirdly, in founding bursaries, which might be competed for by all the schools of Glasgow. If it were thought necessary to restrict the benefit to Glasgow, and not to make it national, there might be bursaries competed for by any school in Glasgow, including the High School and the Academy, and all schools in which secondary instruction is given. And some of the money might be appropriated to found absolutely open bursaries at the University for all-comers. There would thus be established bur- saries to be competed for within different radii. Some would be attached specially to the High School, that being the High School mentioned specially in Mr. Hutcheson's will. Other bursaries would be open to the whole of Glasgow, or the whole of Lanarkshire ; and others, again, would be com- peted for by all-comers at the University. In this way the principle of competition, so much needed in Scotland, would be gradually extended ; while the local feeling and usefulness, which is the strong side of the patronage system, would be preserved. 5206. To turn to those defects which you have mentioned in the schools generally, particularly those that arise out of the payment of fees and the absence of any system of promotion, is there any change that could at present be carried out without the assistance of some funds ? — I think that, even without money, some of the changes I have mentioned might be gradually introduced by the School Boards in such higher-class schools as will be placed under their management. 5207. Without additional funds from anywhere? — I think so. The managers could collect the whole of the fees, put them into a common fund, and make a special bargain with each master to give him so much a year, either as a fixed sum or along with a certain proportion of the fees. 5208. But it would be more easy to carry out such a change if they had some money in hand ? — Yes. I understand something of the kind has been done in the High School, where, in the case of masters engaged after a certain time, there is to be a re-adjustment of salaries, in order to get rid of such an absurdity as that of the writing master getting three or four times as much as the classical masters. 458 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor 5209. In the case of Glasgow, you have made certain recommendations; R^mX G ' 1S lt DOt m ^ e P ower °f tne trustees of Hutcheson's Hospital to carry out d s y ' these under the will f — They have the power, but I doubt whether they would be prepared to exercise it. 5210. They have the power of applying the fund in various ways, and it would be in their discretion in which direction they would apply it 1 — Yes. The most absolute discretion is given to them, although, by their management of the fund in the past, I think they have scarcely shown that they ought to have much discretionary power. 5211. With regard to the state of preparation of entrance students, do your remarks apply to the faculty of Arts? — Only to the faculty of Arts ; but my junior class contains the greater number of the new intrants each year. Almost the whole of my junior class consists of students entering the University for the first time. 5212. But your remarks are confined to the Humanity classes? — Yes. 5213. Do you know whether the same thing applies to those who enter the mathematical classes? — The great majority of first-year students enter the Latin class, but I believe the facts as to preparation, which I have stated, would be found also to apply to students entering the mathematical class. 5214. Do your remarks about defects in secondary instruction which you have observed apply in the same degree to those who come from parochial schools ? — They certainly do apply ; but considering their respective advantages, what strikes one is that the elementary schools should be so good and the secondary so bad. I attribute the fact of the parish schools being able to turn out as good scholars as they do, partly to their classes in higher subjects being so small, and partly to the circum- stance that the schoolmasters are free to arrange their boys according to their proficiency. When a master is teaching a class in Latin, he teaches them all together, five or six or seven at a time, and he is quite free from those arrangements as to promotion which exist in the burgh schools. 5215. I suppose they come at an earlier age from the parish schools than they do from the secondary schools ? — I should say the reverse is the case ; they come older from the parish schools as a rule. I think I did not give the figures for the second year of my examinations, which quite bear out what I stated of the first. In the second year 88 students passed, 64 were plucked ; and so only very little more than the half passed this very easy examination. Of the plucked, 28 came from secondary schools, and 34 from elementary; so that here again those who came from the secondary schools show only slightly better than those who came from the primary. 5216. Have you any other remark to make with reference to the defects in secondary instruction ? — I think not ; except that I believe that the masters are as a rule underpaid. 5217. You spoke of the application of endowments in filling up existing gaps; do you think a technical college is one of those things that it is desirable to introduce or to have established ? — 1 think so, but I have no special knowledge upon that subject. In the Hutcheson's will, it is specially provided that the boys to be educated in his school should pass on and be maintained at the High School should they seem likely to profit by a classical education ; if not, they were to have an allowance for a commercial education ; and I should therefore consider that to use some of the endowments for a technical school would be an application of the money in accordance with the wish of the founder. There are also provisions in the will for putting out boys as apprentices. That specially points towards something of the nature of technical education. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 459 5218. Do you think a special training in a school or college would be Professor better than giving them some money to start them in employment? — ^Tmsa 0 Certainly. In the one case the money would merely assist pecuniarily a few youths ; in the other, it would raise the standard of technical skill throughout the country. 5219. You have some remark to make with regard to the training of schoolmasters. Are you of opinion that there should be a higher examin- ation and training for all schoolmasters ? — Do you mean for secondary schoolmasters ? 5220. I am asking what your opinion is, whether with regard to primary or to secondary schoolmasters ? — As regards primary schools, I think that much more use ought to be made of the universities than has been the case hitherto. As the best system of training for schoolmasters, I would suggest a mixture of Normal School and University training, such as has been suggested by Mr. Laurie and by Mr. Kerr, and re- commended also by Mr. Sellar in his educational reports. I am con- vinced that much may be done towards keeping up the teaching of the higher branches by securing a university training for schoolmasters ; and I have hopes that the Education Department may sanction some such scheme as the following : The training colleges should be allowed to send a certain proportion of their best applicants each year, tested by examination, to the University, instead of keeping them two years, as they do at present, at the Normal School, where the training is one-sided and narrow. They would attend certain classes during two winter sessions at the University ; the summer, and such time as could be spared during winter, would be spent as now at the Normal School. A slight reduction in the examin- ation syllabus, especially in history and geography, would make this scheme feasible. 5221. Are these the students at Normal Schools? — Yes. During the two winters at the University, the students would go through a portion of the M.A. curriculum. At the end of the two years they should be ex- amined at the regular M.A. examination by the Examiners in Arts, with whom might be associated one or more inspectors of schools. There might be certificates of two grades, — an honour grade and a pass grade ; and the Department should put a certain value, in money or in marks, upon these certificates. No master should get a first-class certificate who had not been at the University and passed the University examination. The School Boards, in places where a good schoolmaster was needed, would require the University certificate ; and they would at once know the qualifications of a candidate from his certificate. Under the present system, a student cannot attend the University along with the Normal School ; the arrangements at the Normal School are such as to make it impossible. If a master desires to have university training, as the best of them do, he must seek a situation in Glasgow or in Edinburgh, which enables him to attend the morning classes at the University from 8 till 1 0, while he teaches the whole day from 10 till 3. But in this way he can only attend some of the classes, — those which meet early or late, — and that at a considerable sacrifice of money and of strength. There would be no difficulty in carrying on the Normal School and University training conjointly. 5222. And the result of that would be that they would take less time in preparing to qualify for the examination, and their acquirements would be higher ? — Yes. They could attend the University, not, as now, out of their professional time after they have begun to teach, but while they are still students. 5223. Would that involve raising the standard of examination for a 460 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor Government certificate ? — It would, as far as those subjects are concerned George G. wn i c h are taught at the University. ams y ' 5224. Mr. Lancaster. — There is an examination when they go out in the higher subjects ? — Yes ; but it is worth very little. 5225. The Chairman. — I understand it is with reference to elementary schools that you are now speaking ? — Yes ; but many of these teachers would be very proper persons to appoint for burgh schools, which in Scotland are, as a rule, half elementary. The best way of keeping up higher instruction in many parishes would be to appoint a special teacher to teach the higher branches. 5226. Do you think that by combining the Normal School training with the University you can bring out a higher class of teachers that the public would be glad to take advantage of ? — Exactly ; and the uni- versities possess the machinery for carrying such a system into effect at the minimum cost to Government. 5227. And it would be a less cost to the teachers themselves? — Yes. The only extra cost would be the expense of the classes in the University ; but Mr. Laurie, and other authorities, assure me that the managers of the Normal Schools would be only too happy to increase the bursaries which they now give to the students of these schools, to enable them to attend the universities. 5228. With regard to Hutcheson's Hospital, is there any other state- ment you have to make with regard to that endowment and the applica- tion of its funds I — Yes. I should like to point out that the Act which the managers of that trust have recently obtained gives them greater latitude than I think they are entitled to. It will enable them to spend a smaller sum on education than they ought to spend to carry out the terms and spirit of the various endowments. The shortest way in which I can put it is this : As regards the four main endowments which con- stitute the trust (setting aside the Hood foundation, which is small), it is carefully provided that the amount spent in education should be exactly equal to the amount given in the form of pensions. In the original deeds of the Hutchesons, provision is made first for eleven and then for twelve old men ; and along with the twelve old men there are to be lodged, fed, clothed, and completely educated, twelve boys. After receiving elementary instruction in the school (Hutcheson's School) to be built for them, they were to be sent, if promising scholars, to the High School, during which time they were to be supported and supplied with books and clothes. Should they desire to enter college after four or five years at the High School, they are recommended to the goodwill of the Town Council for any bursaries they may have at their disposal. Others, again, who might not show any aptitude for higher training, were to be put out to trades, and their expenses were to be paid for a whole year as they had been paid before. That principle of division is adhered to in every endowment except the Hood ; half is to be spent in pensions, half in the education and maintenance of boys. Nor was the education to be elementary only ; the Blair (like the Hutcheson) provides for a Latin or a commercial education. The last endowment, amounting to £6000, that of Mary Hood, is left entirely for old women. Now, so far from carrying out these provisions, the patrons, at the end of the last century, when the funds fell, cut off the boys altogether, and reduced the number of old men. Since that time, the education part of the scheme has not been fairly carried out. In the year 1870 the funds were thus expended: they had given pensions to 93 old men, amounting to £799, 3s. 4d., and to 649 old women, amounting to £5375, 6s. 8d. That is the state- ment given in the preamble of the Bill. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 461 5229. Were these sums paid in one year? — Yes; besides £220, 15s. Professor of funeral expenses. The total amount expended on education in the same Ge° r g e G - year was only £1885, whereas one-half should have been so spent. Then, amsa y ' with regard to the Hutcheson school, it is doing no work which an ordinary elementary school should not do. It may have a few pupils in the higher class, but I rather think it is a purely elementary school, — the only difference between it and any other elementary school being that the children get their education gratis, a very doubtful advantage. They pay no fees, and they get clothes; but the education does not differ from that given in any other ordinary school, except in this respect, that it is not under Government inspection. The schoolmaster is appointed by the patrons. 5230. Then you consider that in the past application of the funds, education did not receive its fair share ? — It did not. 5231. Do you think that will not be remedied under the provisions of the new Act? — I think it very doubtful. The Act gives the patrons power to expend as much as one-half, and not less than one-third, of the funds on education. They must expend one-third, and they may expend one-half; but I think, looking at the manner in which the patrons have exercised their privileges in the past, they are likely to expend in pensions more than is desirable. » 5232. You think that education is entitled to at least one-half of the funds ? — I think so, because at least one-half was originally left for that purpose in the principal endowments. That is the proportion laid down in the original foundations. 5233. Supposing, then, that one-half was allowed for education, would you not continue the Hutcheson's Hospital School? — I think not. I think Glasgow is a place which ought to pay for its own elementary instruction. That school, if kept up, will only be an endowment to the ratepayers ; and the school is likely to be not so good as an average school, because it will not be brought into the Government system, and cannot be put under Government inspection. 5234. It gets no Government grant, and is not inspected ? — It is not inspected. 5235. Would you apply what you have said to bursaries ? — Only to a limited extent. Among the endowments there is a Baxter bursary, which was left in 1776, of the amount of £8 per annum — an amount which has never been increased to this day. There is a small flaw in the Act as regards this bursary. The University Commission left the patronage of the bursary as it was, but removed the restrictions as to eligibility, throw- ing the bursary quite open. These restrictions appear to be, by an over- sight, re-enacted by the terms of the 24th clause of the Hutcheson's Hospital Act. Now this is an Act of Parliament, and therefore overrides the ordinances of the Commissioners ; and whereas the ordinances freed the bursary from the restrictions, this clause declares that the bursary is to be allocated in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the University Commissioners, due regard being hud to the preferences contained in the hereinbefore recited deeds. Those words appear to me to re-enact the restrictions abolished by the Commissioners. That is the only sum applicable for a bursary among the whole of these endowments. 5236. But in your opinion a larger sum ought to be allowed for bur- saries ? — Yes ; I think a larger sum should be allowed. 5237. And you think the first object is to supply some want in the educational system of Glasgow? — Yes ; applicable to the kind of persons whom the founder wanted to benefit, who were the poor and the deserving poor, — I mean the poor who showed intelligence. And I think the best 462 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor mode of effecting this object would be, on the one hand, to help some George G. institution, such as a technical college, and in the second place to assist a ^f^ y * i secondary instruction in whatever way might be thought best. I have suggested that one mode of doing this might be to give or assist in giving salaries for masters to teach higher subjects throughout Glasgow. 5238. You think there is a claim for more secondary instruction than is already given by existing arrangements in secondary schools in Glasgow ? — Yes ; and not in secondary schools alone, but in our whole educational system. 5239. And that, you think, will not be sufficiently provided for by the recent Education Act? — There is no provision for the assistance of secondary education in the Act. 5240. Will not many of the existing secondary schools come under the new Boards ? — Yes. 5241. And they will be improved in consequence? — Yes; but they will not be able to get any money from the rates for the purposes of secondary instruction. 5242. One question more with regard to the educational funds of Glas- gow. You spoke of a large sum being available for educational purposes ; did you refer to other funds besides those of Hutcheson's Hospital ? — Yes. There are a number of other endowments, of which I believe returns have been sent to you. They amount to between £20,000 and £30,000 a year. You asked me a question just now as to whether the present governing body of Hutcheson's Hospital were likely to spend as much on education as they should do. I think the patrons of that hospital have not taken as much interest as they might have done in the educational part of their scheme. The superintendence of an educational system, moreover, re- quires special experience and much time. I should like to see all educa- tional endowments placed in the hands of a body whose business was purely educational, rather than that an important educational duty should be put as a piece of by-work upon a body which has other and important duties to perform. The Lord Provost, for instance, is upon every one of these trusts, and how can he find time to consider educational details ? 5243. The governors of Hutcheson's Hospital are a numerous body ? — Yes. I think, considering that part of the foundation supports a bursary, of which certain members of the University are patrons, and that so large a proportion of the funds are intended for education, the University ought to have been represented on the governing board. 5244. Mr. Sellar. — Would the School Board not do ? — I daresay it would be a good body for the purpose ; I think better than the patrons. 5245. The Chairman. — W r ith regard to the other educational endow- ments in Glasgow, does the same remark apply to their application as you have already made with regard to the funds of Hutcheson's Hospital ? — Yes. 5246. Even in the cases where they are specially destined to the poor? — I think there are cases where they are specially destined for purposes which the Education Act will not provide for ; and when that is the case, and especially where the endowment is a new one, I should be disposed to apply the money as far as possible according to the wishes of the founders. 5247. Where, however, it is intended for an object which the Education Act will meet, you think there would be power to apply the fund to some object for which there is a special want in Glasgow ? — Yes. 5248. And in your opinion the improvement of secondary education 'is one of these wants ? — Yes, and money so spent would be as much for the advantage of the poor as of any other class. 5249. And in encouraging secondary education, you would give oppor- MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 463 trinities for qualified students to raise themselves from the elementary Professor schools to the higher schools ?— Yes. ^anfs^ 0 ' 5250. And so on to the University? — Yes. . amsay ' 5251. Mr. Parker. — In the statistics of your class which you gave, of 50 students from secondary schools who passed in 1871-72, one-half were from the Glasgow Academy, were they not ? — One-half from the Academy and High School together. 5252. Is that the High School ? — No. The High School is a gram- mar or burgh school, like the High School in Edinburgh ; the Academy is a proprietary school, like the Academy in Edinburgh. 5253. Of the 29 from secondary schools who were plucked, can you say how many came from the Academy ? — Some came from it and some from the High School also. 5254. Of the 28 from secondary schools who were plucked in the last year, were there still a considerable number from the Academy ? — There were some. 5255. Was the standard of this examination as high as it would be for admission, say, at Rugby ? — I cannot say. 5256. Or at any college at Oxford?— No. 5257. Would you consider that any one falling below that standard was not really capable of profiting by the lectures that were given there ? that they were not capable of following your class with justice to the other students in the class? — Such students undoubtedly lower the teaching in the class ; but I believe that many of them fail simply because they have not been taught by proper methods, and have not had experience in examinations. Many of these same students I find do extremely well before the end of the session. For instance, one student who was plucked last year gained a good prize. 5258. Then it is not want of capacity, but want of proper teaching, to which you attribute the failure of so many of them to pass the ex- amination ? — Yes. 5259. Are the boys themselves generally ready to compete for bursaries and for prizes, or is there any unwillingness on their part to do so ? — They are very backward in competing. 5260. Does that apply equally to boys and to students at the Univer- sity ? — I think so. We always find a difficulty in getting students to go in for a competition unless they think they will gain something by it. In the class competitions they all come forward ; but when the competition is for a bursary or a prize, the tendency of a student is to find out who are going in, and if he finds that somebody is going in whom he thinks better than himself, he will probably not go in. 5261. To what cause would you attribute that difference of feeling between Scotland and England ? — In Scotland, the principle of competi- tion is much less understood both by scholars and by teachers, and also by parents. In the country districts, I am informed, it is not at all an uncommon thing for parents to keep back their children purposely from the school on the day of the inspector's visit, and I believe this partly arises from a feeling of timidity. 5262. Is it your opinion that open competition, besides selecting the candidate who would profit most by the bursary, does any good to those who fail? — Certainly. I think that the mere fact of going in for a competitive examination does good to every competitor, whether he gets the bursary or not ; and it gives a much greater stimulus to the successful competitor than if he had got the money in any other way. He is looked upon as a marked man ; he has fairly earned the money in open compe- tition, and he is anxious to keep up his position. 4G4 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor 5263. And do you think his failure on that particular occasion would George G. probably stimulate a boy to reach a better standard in any future amsa y ' competition ? — I think so. I think some might be discouraged altogether by failure, unless the cause is explained to them ; but I find that in my class examinations, although I state freely the results, however bad, this does not discourage the students from coming forward on other occasions. 5264. When you speak of the extreme mediocrity of secondary schools in Scotland, do you dissent from the report which was given by Mr. Fearon to the English Endowed Schools Commissioners, which seemed to speak much more highly of them? — I would, most strongly, so far as my experience goes as to the students who come up to the University of Glasgow. 5265. Do you think that, coming as a stranger to this country, he did not judge very accurately of the standard of merit of these schools ? — Yes ; he gave an enthusiastic report. 5266. Does your opinion go beyond the subjects specially belonging to your own class, such as Latin and classical instruction generally, or is it chiefly confined to that ? — I think the opinion I have expressed applies pretty accurately to the whole of the subjects studied in the University, because the students who distinguish themselves in Latin and Greek, as a rule, are the students who distinguish themselves in other classes. Mathematics, I would say, form to some extent an exception to this statement. 5267. Where the very large proportion of fees goes to one master for teaching writing, for instance, is it that he teaches a larger number of boys, or how is it, that he obtains so much more than others? — He teaches a much larger number. The writing class is naturally very large ; if there are assistants, I believe they get a fixed sum, while the head of the department receives all the fees. 5268. Then his assistants are paid by himself? — I understand that is generally the case. The assistant teachers are found by the head teacher, and it is his interest to get them at as low a salary as possible. This has been too much the case in all kinds of schools in Scotland. In St. Enoch's School, in Glasgow, where there are some 1400 scholars in attendance, I found that not long ago there were only three assistant teachers employed. The head master received the whole fees, and could get assistants by paying them £15 a piece, in addition to what they received from Government.' 5269. Then, in any case, where an endowed school was being re- organized, you would make it a principle not to allow the fees to go separately to the master according to the number of pupils? — Yes. I would not object to the managers handing over to each teacher a certain small proportion of the fees of his class, but the bulk of the fees should go into a common fund. 5270. But you would recommend that there should be some stimulus to the teachers by giving them a portion of the fees ? — Yes. A large class entails more work, for which it is only fair that a master should receive some consideration. 5271. In your general view as to the objects to which endowments might be applied, you would reserve them as far as possible for higher education, rather than devote them to mere elementary education ? — Yes. 5272. Do you think the recent Education Act gives an additional ground for reserving endowments for higher education ? — Certainly ; as it makes elementary education compulsory. 5273. And supposing the founder left an endowment for elementary education, you would not, under the Education Act, consider it a depar- MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 4G5 ture from his intention to apply it to the higher education? — No. I Professor would consider it no departure from his intention at all, because what he r*e° r g e G- did was to leave money for an education which the children could not get amsa y ' otherwise. If that education had been provided by the law, he would not have left the money for that purpose ; and the best way to carry out his intention is to apply the endowment in putting a better education in reach of the class which he intended to benefit. 5274. Do you think that is nearer his intention than relieving the rate- payers ? — Certainly. 5275. You say you would apply these endowments partly to increase the salaries of teachers in higher subjects. I suppose by that you mean all beyond the subjects taught in elementary schools ? — To all the subjects beyond those to which the Government grants apply, or which the Govern- ment code fails sufficiently to stimulate. 5276. If in any school there were few parents disposed to allow their children to be taught classics, would you think it still advisable to pay the classical masters in such a school ? — No. I should not be disposed to throw money away in teaching what was not wanted ; I would consider the circumstances of each locality. In the case of local endowments, where there are small local endowments for two or three schools in a parish, I think they might be thrown together, so as to help the higher education in one school in the district. That would be a benefit to the whole district. 5277. Where there are small local endowments, which should you consider the better use of them, — to increase the remuneration of the master, or to found bursaries ? — I think that must depend a good deal upon the circumstances of the district, the amount of its educational endowments, and what were its resources apart from the endowment. If a district is anxious to keep up higher education, and able to do so for itself, or if a school is in a district sufficiently populous to maintain it without endowment, then I think a bursary open to all schools in such a district might be legitimately established, and would prove highly stimulative of the higher teaching. 5278. But if, without such aid, the teachers' salaries were likely to be below the average, would you apply the endowment in the first instance for that purpose ? — I think one of the best means of getting higher teaching is to give sufficient salaries to attract well qualified teachers. The money might be applied in supplementing the salary of the existing teacher, or in appointing a special teacher for higher subjects. I think that would be the better plan in many cases. 5279. In your proposal for the training of teachers, did I rightly understand you that the Normal Schools are prepared to give up some part of their time, so as to allow their students to go to the University ? — I believe they would willingly do so. Such, also, is the opinion of the Principals of the two Normal Schools in Glasgow. 5280. When you spoke of obtaining time at present spent on history and geography, did you mean to the exclusion of these subjects alto- gether? — Certainly not altogether; but there is at present a large amount of cram-work required which might be well dispensed with. The same or similar facts have to be got up for two examinations in successive years. 5281. You proposed, I think, that the University should give a certifi- cate to a master who had gone through a university training ? — Yes. 5282. Would that certificate be equivalent to a lower form of degree, such as a bachelor's degree? — Not exactly. We have a degree which has been recently introduced, a degree of bachelor, not of arts, for that 2 G 466 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor degree has been abolished by Parliament, but bachelor in science, which George G. j s gj V en in four different departments, — in arts, in law, in engineering, and ' in science, — and that degree can be obtained easily in a three years' course. The certificate to the master which I proposed would be obtained upon a two years' course ; but I believe the effect of allowing a master to take his two years' course along with his Normal School training would be to encourage him to take a third year also, so as to obtain the degree of bachelor in science, or for the fourth year, to obtain that of M.A. 5283. And his third year could be so arranged that he could take it at any time which is convenient for himself ? — Yes ; that is permitted now under the ordinances in the case of every degree. 5284. In the Hutcheson's Hospital Act, the Baxter bursary stands at £8, does it not ?— Yes. 5285. Do you think that amount is at all sufficient for a bursary in the present day ? — Not at all. 5286. How long ago was that bursary founded?— *In 1776 — nearly a hundred years ago. 5287. Do you think there is a fair claim that the sum for that particular bursary should be increased, so as to suit the present time? — I think there is a very strong claim to increase it, as the endowment has increased. 5288. And you think that you would thereby be carrying out the intention of the founder ? — Yes. I suppose a bursary of £8 a hundred years ago would have gone as far as a bursary of £20 or £30 now. 5289. For the organization generally of these educational funds in Glasgow, do you think it desirable that they should, as far as possible, fall into the hands of one body ? — I do. 5290. And that body should be selected specially for educational purposes ? — Yes ; specially on educational grounds. 5291. Would you accept the School Board under the new Act as being such a body ? — I think so. I do not see any other body which could be charged with the duty. But I should prefer a body chosen specially for their acquaintance with the subject of higher education. At the same time, I must say that the Ferguson trustees have discharged their duty, so far as it has been connected with education, very well. That is an instance of a body of trustees who have had an educational object, and who have been guided solely by that object. Their scholarships have been very wisely administered, although, I think, they might give a larger sum for education than they do. As to the School Boards, it is hard to say what class of persons will be elected to serve on those boards. Endowments should be managed by persons who have special acquaintance with higher education, and such persons are not numerous. 5292. Is that especially the case with endowments influencing secondary education ? — Yes. I should, of course, say that it would apply more to them than to any others. 5293. Do you think it desirable that any special provision should be made to connect them with the University further than by the examin- ation for bursaries ? — If examinations were made compulsory upon all secondary schools, the examiners should be appointed by the universities, and paid out of the endowments. The same examiners might hold ex- aminations for bursaries open to a certain number of schools. We have a good instance of that in the Patrick bursaries, one of £100 and the other of £50 per annum, restricted to boys educated in one or other of the public schools in Renfrewshire. There is thus a competition between Greenock, Paisley, Renfrew, and other schools, which is highly beneficial to those schools. That is the only way now in which one school is pitted against another, and I should like to see the system extended. The MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 4G7 founding of bursaries open to a whole county, or to two or three counties, Professor would establish competition in a modified form, and would give a great George G. stimulus to the schools in the district. amsay. 5294. In that case does the competition take place locally in the county ? — Not in the case of the Patrick bursaries. We appoint, and the candidates come up to our annual examination. In one or two instances, when the candidates did not come up to what we considered a bursary standard, we refused to make an appointment. 5295. If there were many bursaries with such restrictions connected with your University, would it be practicable to hold the examinations locally in the counties ? — I think it would be practicable. The papers might be sent to any place in the county on a particular day, and the answers be sent to us to be examined. Were there many such bursaries established, it would be necessary to assist the professors in the examin- ations, for the examinations which they have at present are very heavy. The Government inspectors might take part in the examinations. All such examinations would give publicity to the work done in the secondary schools, and that is what is required. There is at present no means of comparing one school with another. There is no entrance examination to the University, which would be useful in showing how many successful competitors came from different schools. In Aberdeen, the schools take rank by the number of their scholars who get competition bursaries, and consequently they exert themselves to the utmost to carry them off. I have no doubt the same effect would be produced by bursary competitions in all districts. For the schools which are not good enough to compete for bursaries, the only way of getting publicity into them would be to establish efficient inspection and examination, and publish the results in the widest way possible. 5296. Mr. Sellar. — And you think that would be a good use to make of endowments ? — Yes ; such inspection and examination would do more than anything else to raise the character of our schools. 5297. Do you know that under the Education Act the School Boards can organize examinations of the schools all over the country ? — They are permitted to do so. The great blot upon the Act in that respect is, that each school is left to appoint its own examiners. 5298. I think that is not so. By section 62, the examiners are to be appointed and employed by the School Board, not by the school ? — I meant the School Board. 5299. What is your objection to that ? — There will be no comparison of one school with another. A School Board will rarely have under it more than one higher school. For instance, in Glasgow, at present the only secondary school under it will be the High School. 5300. May they not have any number of secondary high-class schools ? — They may, but such a result is not to be expected. The Act offers no inducement to Boards to convert ordinary schools into higher-class schools. 5301. But there is nothing in this provision to prevent two or three School Boards fixing the time and method of examination, so that all the schools may be examined by the same body of men ? — That may be, but there is nothing to require it. They might do that at present without the Act. The Act should have provided a uniform and single system of examination for all higher-class schools. 5302. Would you make provision to compel such an examination as that under the Act of Parliament ? — Certainly. 5303. As the clause stands, there is nothing to prevent that being done? — I suppose you are speaking with reference to my remark that there was a blot on the Act. Perhaps I did not express myself clearly. 468 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor What I meant was, that the Act was defective because it entrusted the ^ms&y' examuaa ti° n °f higher-class schools to each individual board. I should ' like to see a regular system of examination and inspection of all the higher-class schools established at the public expense. Very possibly the Act could not have been drawn in any other way, having regard to the principles on which it is founded ; but if the examinations are to be of any real use, and not sham examinations, as they too often are when conducted by the managers of a special school, there should be a common staff of examiners, to examine the whole schools on one principle, and give publicity to the results. 5304. The Act provides two things, — first, that there shall be an examin- ation of every high school every year ; and second, that the expenses of the examination shall be paid out of the school fund. I don't see how it could possibly provide anything else ? — It could have provided that the exa- miners should be appointed by a competent and independent authority. But whether the Act could have provided anything else or not, I say that the provision it makes for the examination of higher-class schools is de- fective ; it is not what one would like to see if the examinations are to be efficient. 5305. It leaves it to the School Boards to make any arrangements for general examinations they like ? — Exactly ; but the managers of schools in Scotland have not shown themselves very anxious to take advantage of such opportunities. 5306. There have been no managers yet? — The Town Council has hitherto managed the High School; but they have shown no desire to institute such an examination until last year, and they were then stimulated to do so by the example of the Academy. I hope the School Boards may be composed of persons who are anxious for, and acquainted with, higher education ; but what I think necessary is, that there should be uniform and public examinations, and that the examiners should be appointed irrespective of the managers of the schools. 5307. Mr. Parker. — Do you think such publicity given to the results of the examinations would tend to make parents send their children to the better schools ? — I think so. They have no means just now of knowing whether a school is good or bad. 5308. You think that parents, with such means of information as these examinations would give, would be likely to transfer their children to the schools which were good ? — Yes ; parents are always anxious to send their children to the best school. But at present a parent has no test by which he can judge of the comparative excellence of schools. 5309. Mr. Lancaster. — I see in your calendar that under competition bursaries are included open bursaries and bursaries restricted to the in- habitants of particular localities, and I think also bursaries where preference is given to certain names. Are all these included in your classification under competition bursaries? — No. I include among competition bur- saries only those for which the competition is absolutely unrestricted. There is one case where a preference is given to the names of Stewart and Simpson, but the Senate has decided that such preferences are only to be given effect to ceteris paribus. 5310. I am aware of that ; but in the case of the Patrick bursary, for example, that is one where there is a restriction to a locality? — It is restricted to a locality ; but where the merits of the candidates eligible are decided by competitive examination, the effect of the restriction is not so great. 5311. Is that included in your classification of unrestricted bursaries? —No. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 469 5312. Is the Stewart bursary ? — Yes. Professor 5313. It is restricted, but you think it will be administered so as to be ( ^ eor g eG - practically unrestricted ? — I think so. amsay. 5314. Then such bursaries as are in the position of the Patrick would come under your head of bursaries given to certain localities ? — Yes ; it comes under the second head, which comprises bursaries competed for, but under restrictions as to locality. 5315. These bursaries are in the gift of the Senate, subject to such re- strictions ? — Yes. 5316. Do you think the Senate would be disposed to make application for the removal of restrictions of such a character ? — I think in the case of the Patrick they would hardly do so, because the foundation is so recent, and works well. It is not more than ten or eleven years since it was established. 5317. Do you think they would be prepared generally to move in the way of removing restrictions to localities ? — Certainly. They have done so already, in the adoption of the report of the Committee on Bursaries, in the strongest possible way. 5318. And also in disregarding restrictions as to name? — Yes. 5319. And also as to founders' kin? — Yes. I believe the feeling in the Senate to be unanimous to the effect that all restrictions are mischievous. 5320. With regard to the bursaries which are administered by various public bodies, you said something about regard being had to poverty. There are very few foundations in Glasgow in which that recommendation occurs? — There are some. It is quaintly expressed in two or three of them. For instance, the James Adam bursary is to be bestowed on those who are 'rather poorest and most deserving.' But the old deeds are more careful in providing that only students of merit should be presented to bursaries than modern patrons have shown themselves to be. The Dundonald bursaries (1673) are founded 'for the regard we have and carrie to literature and true piety, and to the flourishing and advance- ment thereof,' as well as for ' the supplieing of persons to literature who are not able to entertain themselves.' Again, to the Hamilton bursaries — in divinity — (1694) ' no students shall be nominat or presented by us or our foresaids . . . but such as have a testificat of their laureation and of their good behaviour and proficiency in learning And we further . . . recommend, either to the minister or to the Presbytery of Hamilton, to take tryall of the literature and qualifications of the' candi- dates, ' that so none may be presented, but such as are of promiseing spirits,' etc. Again, the Ross bursary (1659) is founded ' for breiding and man- teining of the most quick and acurat spirits of the name of Ross, who shall be found after disput to be most qualified of that name, without respect of persons ; and that all such scholars as should crave the benefite as bursers in the s d - Universitie, should disput before the Lairds of Bal- nagown, etc. . . . and the Masters of the Universitie,' etc. etc. I might mention the James Adam as an instance of a patronage bursary. The patronage of the James Adam bursary is in the hands of Lord Glasgow, the minister of Cumbrae, and the Professor of Divinity ; but, on more than one occasion, Lord Glasgow and the minister of Cumbrae name a student, and then ask the Professor to agree to their nomination. 5321. I suppose you would not approve of such a mode of appoint- ment to a bursary ? — I think such appointments should be made only on the principle of merit, and competition is the best mode of ascertaining merit. I presume the object of making the Professor of Divinity a joint- elector was to secure that none but deserving students should be appointed. 5322. With regard to one of your answers to the Chairman about the 470 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Professor possible merits of private patronage, are we to understand that as an George G. j the colliery department, mechanical surveying and architectural drawing, Idell 8 an( ^' amon o st tne fishermen, the elements of navigation. J ' 5405. And if these subjects suitable to the population were introduced, you would approve of the introduction of somewhat higher subjects ? — We produce a great number of the very best seamen that can be obtained. All they want is education; and they cannot get forward now-a-days without competition. 5406. Then you would approve of a little navigation and mechanics being taught ? — Yes, decidedly ; not to go too far, but what would be practically useful to them. For instance, a few years ago, half-a-dozen vessels were entirely manned and navigated by people bred in the village, and capital seamen they were. They always navigated safely, but they could not have undergone the examination now required. 5407. Do you approve of expending part of the endowment in giving children bursaries to go on to the higher classes, — bursaries such as £5 a year or so ? — My opinion would be that it would depend entirely upon the demand. I very much doubt if a greater supply of higher scholars could be got in the parish ; at least I do not think so. 5408. I suppose it would give a good deal of satisfaction if the trust deed were more generally known, and if the accounts were made more generally public ? — Most undoubtedly it would. And I am sure, if we had been informed that the revenue does not exceed what has been mentioned, we would have been much more unwilling to make any statement, because the inhabitants have been led to suppose that the revenue was much larger. 5409. If the net revenue, after deducting the expenses of management of the hospital and public burdens, is only £579, then they would not see so much ground for complaint ? — I do not think they would. I think it would be unreasonable. 5410. And you say the building is quite capable of accommodating more ? — Yes ; it is a splendid building ; it cost £3000. 5411. Do you know what amount of land there is? — About four or five acres, I think ; but they draw no revenue from their land or garden. 5412. Then the buildings are considered good, and the teaching is considered good? — The buildings are excellent, and the teaching is sub- stantial and good. 5413. And what is chiefly wanted is that a much larger number of the inhabitants should have advantage of it ? — Yes. 5414. To the extent to which the funds would permit ? — Yes ; and let it be better known. 5415. It is generally understood that only one of the trustees has taken an active part in the management ? — That has been the general understanding since the death of the last life trustee, Mr. Anderson. In fact, it has been practically under one man exclusively. 5416. And a little more daylight on the whole matter would probably tend to remove many objections ? — Decidedly ; it would remove dissatis- faction to a very great degree. 5417. Mr. Ramsay. — Suppose the whole net revenue were applicable for the purposes of the hospital, you are not desirous that the Commis- sion should recommend gratuitous education ? — Only for poor children, and those whose parents run away and leave them, so that they must be educated by the Parochial Board. 5418. Then if the funds of the institution were sufficient to provide a higher education, would you approve of their application to that purpose ? — Most unquestionably I would approve of as large a portion as possible being applied to that purpose ; but the fact is that we like to have our rates as low as possible. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 479 Rev. Rev. William Caesar, examined. William Caesar. 5419. The Chairman. — You are one of the trustees of Stiell's Hos- pital ?— Yes. 5420. How is the trust composed? — The three ex officio members are the Lord Justice-Clerk, the sheriff of the county, the minister of the parish, and, I believe, the factor as factor. 5421. There were some life trustees in the original trust? — Yes; to take charge, I suppose, of the property, and hand it over to the official trustees. 5422. Did those named in the original trust take any part in the management of the hospital ?— Yes, they took part in it while they lived. 5423. Is there any power in the trustees to add to their number ? — They had no power to add to their number. I believe Mr. Anderson of St. Germains, whose father was one of the first trustees, was adopted as one of the trustees ; but I am doubtful whether, if any legal question had come to be tried, the minutes with his name in them would have been valid. 5424. In reply to the questions put to the trustees, you say they hold half-yearly statutory meetings. Whom are these meetings attended by ? — Until recently, in my time, Sheriff Home attended ; Mr. Anderson of St. Germains, who was the one named by the original trustees ; and the factor. They attended most regularly. I think it is three years since Mr. Anderson of St. Germains died, and of course he had no successor. 5425. Mr. Parker. — Has the present sheriff ever attended ? — Never ; but he was only appointed the other day, on the promotion of Sheriff Shand to the bench. Sheriff Shand never attended, but he never said he would not attend ; and within a year or so, the present Lord Justice- Clerk sent an apology, regretting that he was unable to attend the general meetings, which shows that he intends to be present when it suits him. 5426. Mr. Ramsay. — Did his predecessor, Lord Justice-Clerk Patton, attend? — He never attended ; but Lord Justice-Clerk Boyle attended. Lord Justice-Clerk Inglis never attended. 5427. The Chairman. — Were the changes lately made in the applica- tion of the funds adopted by a full meeting of governors? — The meeting was not fully attended. The Lord Justice-Clerk and the Sheriff did not attend, but they were put in possession of the steps we proposed to take ; and intimation of every meeting at which the regulations were to be con- sidered, as well as, I believe, the regulations themselves, were sent to them. 5428. Are the children who are selected for admission to the hospital chosen at these meetings ? — They are chosen at the half-yearly meetings of directors. • 5429. Will you state what steps are taken with regard to the selection of the children ? — We have done nothing since we had this new change, which was brought about by a desire on the part of many of the people to have the hospital open to children who pay fees ; but before that, the way we did was generally this, — an intimation was made from the pulpit on the Sabbath-day that the directors of the hospital would meet in the hospital, perhaps six or ten days after the intimation, at a certain hour, when they would consider all applications for admission to the school. 5430. Under the new arrangements you will admit free scholars all the same as before ? — Yes ; but we have so many above the sixty, that it will be perhaps a year or so before we come to any new admissions. 480 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Rev. 5431. Did you find the system of admission to be very beneficial? — ^wsar 1 ^ es ' because I never beard in the parish but that it worked admirably. 1 ' I told my people to let it be known to all parties that the directors would meet at such a day and such an hour. And in point of fact, to show how generally it was known in the parish, we generally had forty-five, fifty, or even sixty applications for probably fifteen or twenty vacancies. 5432. The applicants came in person to attend the meeting and make application? — The father or mother always came. 5433. The trustees did not know what applications were to be made till the day of meeting ? — Never. 5434. And were they decided at once, without any further inquiry ? — Yes. The other directors supposed I knew the people in the parish better than they did, and left a great deal in my hands ; therefore I was very careful, before recommending any, to know the circumstances and claims of the different applicants. The trustees generally met probably ten days or a fortnight after I had received the applications, and in the interval I went often to the families of the applicants, or to those who knew them well, to learn about their circumstances. I was as careful as I possibly could be to recommend none but those who I thought would do credit to the hospital, and to whom, at the same time, such an education would be of benefit. 5435. Were many of those children orphans ? — Not a great many. As a rule, I may say, if there were orphans, we always recommended them, and the children of widows. 5436. And in deciding on those who were admitted, you considered the circumstances of the parents ? — Yes ; and the number of children they were paying for in some other school. If, for example, a parent had four or five children at school, and paying for their education, I always thought it right to recommend that one of his children should be admitted, and so relieve him to that extent. 5437. Do the children now at the school generally belong to parents who find a difficulty in paying fees ? — I think, upon the whole, they would find as much difficulty as any others in the parish. 5438. But not more ? — As a rule, I think perhaps quite as much. 1 5439. Are there many out-door paying scholars received under the new arrangement ? — Between fifty and sixty. 5440. Are they generally better able to pay than those who receive free admission? — I think so. We have the children of farmers in the parish of Gladsmuir, and such as those, now paying for their education in the hospital. 5441. Have any complaints been addressed to you by the parishioners with regard to the application of the funds ? — Never. 5442. Nor for any statement of the accounts? — Never. I never heard of a complaint in connection with the management of the hospital since I have had to do with it. I can quite understand that, if there should be five- and-t wen ty vacancies, and thirty or forty people disappointed, there might likely be some dissatisfaction. 5443. Will you state the reasons which led the governors or directors to introduce a change two years ago ? — One reason was, that throughout the parish many people of respectable position and comfortable circum- stances had said to me they were very anxious to get their children admitted into Stiell's Hospital, as they believed the education to be got there was about the best that could be got, — better, in fact, than they were getting at the time in the parish. At the same time, they could never expect to get their children admitted on the free list ; and if any plan could be adopted by which they could be received into the hospital MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 481 by paying fees, it would be a great boon to them. Then the Endowed Rev. Schools Act came into operation, and there was a feeling in this direction ^q^ 1 *, 1 throughout Scotland, to give certain children — those who could pay for it particularly — a higher class education ; and we thought we had the means in our hand of doing so, at the same time keeping up to the num- ber of sixty the old system of a free education. We hoped in this way to do good to the young people of the place, and of the neighbouring parishes, which have some little interest in the hospital ; and our plan was adopted just from a desire to make the funds do as much good for the present generation as possible. 5444. You did not propose to encroach on the funds for the purpose of maintaining those new children at school ? — Not in the least. 5445. But to keep up the charity to its full amount ? — To keep it up to its full amount, and not spend any money upon those who paid fees, except that we proposed to give a small bursary to the best scholar or scholars on leaving the institution, if they wished to go to college. 5446. And these bursaries would be open to all ? — To all. 5447. But confined to the school ? — Confined to the school. 5448. There used to be a certain number of children boarded in the house ? — Yes. 5449. You have none at present? — None at present. When I became connected with the hospital 1 think the number of inmates was four ; but we were careful of our funds, and were enabled to take in eight. There was, however, an outcry against the monastic system, and we proposed to the parents of the inmates that, instead of having them in the hospital, we would allow a certain sum for board in their own houses if they preferred it ; and they all preferred it. In point of fact, I think we have just two now who were formerly inmates. 5450. You do not propose to keep up any foundationers boarded in that way? — We do not propose to alter that ; we propose rather to give bursaries to the best of the poor children during the time they are in the hospital. 5451. But you will not have any foundationers whom you will support as well as educate ?— No ; we do not propose that. 5452. There was nothing in the original deed requiring you to maintain as well as educate ? — Not to maintain. There are certain powers given in the last clause of the deed, to make changes to suit present times. 5453. To enable you to do so ; but it was not imperative ? — It was not imperative. We were guided in all these matters by counsel here, and we had the assistance of Mr. Laurie. 5454. The terms of the trust were, i appointing the trustees to choose from residenters, and to admit into the said hospital, as many boys and girls as the said revenue will afford to maintain and clothe and educate.' Then there is a subsequent clause which enables the trustees to make alterations, amendments, and improvements, always keeping in view the original intention of the said institution. Was that understood by you as enabling you to dispense with that condition of the trust ? — Yes. 5455. And you took legal opinion upon it? — We did. 5456. Then the only real extension of the funds beyond the objects of the charity was in establishing those bursaries, which would be given to others than the foundationers? — I think there is a feeling that they should be almost confined in the lower school to the free scholars. 5457. Has there been any competition ? — One. 5458. And was that open to children on the foundation, or the whole school? — The whole school; but it so happened that both in the lower 2 H 482 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Eev. school and in the upper school the children who got the bursaries were wnikm f ree scholars. ' 5459. And your expectation is that the day scholars will pay their own way, and not be a charge upon the funds ? — They will never be a charge upon the funds of the hospital — at least we do not contemplate that ; and if it should ever turu out to be so, I have no doubt some other arrangement will be entered into. 5460. Now, with regard to the funds, it is stated here in answer to the 20th inquiry, that as the new regulations had only come into operation on the 15th February last a statement of the accounts of last financial year will not give a correct idea of the present hospital expenditure. • Did you form an idea of the probable receipts and expenditure when you entered into this change ? — Yes ; that was very carefully considered by the factor. I am not sure whether it was submitted to the counsel whose opinion he took ; but at all events it was carefully considered by the factor, and we had it talked over at a subsequent meeting. 5461. But it was not put into figures, so that you could give us a notion of what the probable receipts and expenditure would be ? — I am not sure whether our figures would be reliable, as they were more in the shape of a conjecture or guess. 5462. The salaries here are stated to amount to £215? — Yes. 5463. Will there be any addition to the salaries paid out of the fees? — Yes. 5464. Or any additional masters paid out of the fees ? — We have a new mistress, to assist the chief teacher, and we hope the fees will pay her salary and her expenses. The most of the new scholars attend the chief master, and of course the most of the fees are up-stairs. 5465. The fee in the upper school is 7s. 6d. for English, Latin, French, and mathematics. Do you think that fee will be sufficient to provide fully for the education of the children in the upper school ? — Well, we thought so ; and if the fee had been much higher, probably fewer would have taken advantage of the music. 5466. I am speaking of the 7s. 6d. ? — Yes, I think so. 5467. You cannot give us a statement of the actual receipts of fees? — I am sorry to say I have not the figures. 5468. But the first year is closed now? — Yes. 5469. Can you send the Commission a balance sheet of the receipts and expenditure during the first year? — Most certainly. 5470. Your school building can accommodate a considerably larger number of children than was originally intended for the foundation ? — Well, in the under school we are quite full, — so much so, that the other day, cold as it was, I found it a little too close in the teachers' room. Up-stairs we can take a few more. 5471. In the higher school, where the rooms were that were formerly used by the boarders ? — In school day, and while preparing lessons. 5472. As you have no boarders, will you not have accommodation for more? — It is the same room where they were taught. 5473. Not where they slept ? — That is used by the female teacher as a teaching room. 5474. Will you state for how many children you think you will be able to provide that education under the new arrangements, both in the upper and lower school ? — I think we can accommodate, with our present rooms, say 60 down-stairs and 60 up-stairs, and probably 30 or 40 with the female teacher. Then there is another room, which implies another teacher, which would hold probably 30 also. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 483 5475. What room is that? — That was the girls' sleeping-room ; the Key. female teacher has the boys' room. And on the other side, I do not see any ^|JJJ reason why, if we thought it necessary, that additional room, with an additional teacher, might not be used as a classroom. 5476. Mr. Ramsay. — So you would have accommodation for about 200 pupils ? — Yes. 5477. The Chairman. — If you wish to give any further accommodation, it would be necessary to add to the building ? — Yes ; beyond that girls' room, we would need to build. 5478. Now, with regard to the investment of your funds, is any part of them invested in land in the neighbourhood of the school from which you derive rents ? — None. 5479. Where are the houses in which your funds are invested? — They are in Edinburgh ; the whole houses that belonged to George Stiell, who left the money. 5480. Then your principal revenue is derived from heritable securities and stock, which are not likely to increase in value? — I do not think so. 5481. Will the general account state the amount expended on bread and milk ? — I suppose so. 5482. You do not know whether it is kept as a separate item? — I think it is kept by the matron as a separate item. 5483. Mr. Parker. — Do you know the total number of children in the schoolroom, including those in both the upper and lower schools ? — I am not quite sure, but I think the number is about 120. 5484. Then the number is within 80 of the most that could possibly be accommodated by the arrangements of the present building? — I think so. 5485. And preference is given in the first instance to the name of Stiell ? Have you few applicants ? — Almost none. 5486. With regard to the parish of Tranent, does that exhaust the number of vacancies, or do any boys come on the foundation from other parishes named on the founder's list? — None. They have all hitherto come from Tranent ; but we would allow a child to attend our school whose parents belonged to a neighbouring parish, such as Pencaitland, Prestonpans, and Grladsmuir. 5487. Do you know what paying pupils come from any of the other parishes ? — Yes ; we have paid pupils from Gladsmuir, and some from Prestonpans. I do not think we have any from Pencaitland ; but if we had had the present system in operation two or three years ago, we would have had several of the best children attending school from Pencaitland. They have gone, however, to Edinburgh, and do not care to make a change ; but they regretted that this system was not then in existence. 5488. This list of sixty-six children are those at present enjoying the benefits of the foundation? — Yes. 5489. And I suppose they are all the children of fishermen, miners, hinds, or labourers ? — Yes ; it is a labouring district. 5490. All of them belong to the humbler classes? — All of them. 5491. There are eleven boys to six girls. Is that a fixed proportion, or accidental ? — It is accidental. 5492. You admit boys or girls according to the circumstances, and as it may be desirable? — Yes. 5493. Do you know whether the intimation of vacancies is made in the other churches, or reaches the members of other churches? — Yes; so 484 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Bey. much so, that at our last election, of seventeen there were eleven from Dis- ^ffisar 1 sen ^ m S bodies. ' 5494. And probably there is no regard at all to denomination in the selection ? — None in the least. 5495. Are those resolutions that you passed at a meeting of the trus- tees in 1870 still in force ? Take them one by one. It is said, first of all, that the pupils were to have a lunch of bread and milk as well as instruc- tion ? — Yes ; but only the free scholars. We do not, of course, pay for the bread to the child who is paying fees for his education ; but in point of fact, they all get lunch at the same time, because the baker sends down sufficient for the others, and they pay for their own. We still give the roll to the free scholars, and mean to continue it. 5496. You give rolls still, but the milk seems to be discontinued? — There has never been milk in my day, and that is for twenty-one years ; and I never heard of milk. I have sometimes wished in the cold weather that they could have got soup to warm them ; but it would have taken so much machinery and additional work, that we saw it was scarcely a prac- ticable thing. 5497. If the paying scholars were to get even the bread, it would very nearly exhaust the sum they pay — 2s. 6d. per quarter ? — Yes ; but we do not do that. And then the scholars who pay 7s. 6d. are not very many. Generally the paying ones are in the higher school. 5498. There were until recently eight children resident in the hospital ? — I think eight ; and if I mistake not, at the time we began to act upon our resolutions I think there were probably just six, because, having this before us, when a vacancy in the number of inmates took place we did not fill it up. 5499. Then there was naturally a saving on the sum spent in the main- tenance of those six. In what direction was that saving expended ? — It is just a year since they left us, and we have not had time to benefit in that way ; but it is to go for bursaries in the school, and we will increase the number of bursaries in proportion to the sum at our disposal. 5500. The second resolution was to give small bursaries of £2 to the most meritorious children in the free school. Would these be open to paying children as well as to those on the foundation? — Yes, I think so. 5501. In the advertisement for 1872 only one such bursary was held out, but you look forward to giving more ? — Yes ; we look forward to giving more immediately. We made a good many changes in the hospi- tal, such as procuring new furniture, and we had to spend a good deal of money this year which we will not have to do again. The furniture had not been renewed since it was first placed there in 1822. 5502. You also advertised a bursary in the High School of £5 ; would it be held at school, or enable the boy to go elsewhere ? — It would be held at school. 5503. And you even contemplated in your resolutions giving a bursary for the University ? — We do not wish to limit it to it. If the bursar wished to go to the High School or the Edinburgh Academy, he would be allowed to do so, so as to be fitted for professional life. 5504. A bursary of considerably larger amount? — I think we named £25, or more if we had the means. 5505. The lower school is taught almost entirely, is it not, by the assistant master ? — Wholly ; it always was. 5506. Has the rector any control over him ? — Yes ; we expect the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 485 rector to take as much oversight of his teaching, and of the working of Rev. it, as he possibly can ; and he does so. ^o»sar 5507. He would examine the classes ? — Yes ; so as to see that the 88Sar teacher is going through his work. 5508. But his own teaching is chiefly given now in the higher school ? — Yes ; it always was. 5509. How long has there been a higher as well as a lower school ? — It was never called a higher school till we acted upon these resolutions ; but in point of fact we always had an upper school, as it was called, where the children above nine or ten years of age were sent up, year after year, to be taught by the head master. 5510. Is it only since 1870 that there have been any children paying fees ? — I think since the end of 1871. We began it in October 1871. 5511. And until that time, both the children in the lower and upper class were on the foundation — free ? — Yes. 5512. Can you give the total amount of fees received during the last quarter that you have had experience of the change ? — I cannot, but I will furnish a copy of these particulars. 5513. If you like to give it in evidence, do you know who drew up this paper which has been supplied to us ? — It is perfectly correct. You can accept it as the governor's report, or the head master's ; it came through our hands. 5514. Is it intended that the fees in the upper school, where the chil- dren pay, should defray the whole expenses of the teaching in that school ? — Not the whole expenses of teaching, but it is expected they will pay the expenses in connection with the outlay we have had for those additional scholars. Of course, if we had no paying scholars we would still have needed a teacher ; but we hope that the fees will cover any additional salary given to him, and anything required for the accommodation or con- venience of these children. 5515. Then your principle would be that that part of the school should be considered self-supporting ? — No ; we have some of our free scholars there. We always send up ten, or as many as may be, from the lower school, and they will always be up-stairs. 5516. Do you consider that the children of well-to-do persons who may be in the upper classes are paying nearly the price of their education, excluding, perhaps, the advantage of the building ? — I suppose the fees are very much the same as they are in our best schools. They are less than in Edinburgh, but I think they will be much the same as are paid in our higher schools. 5517. Among the poorer children, do you suppose there are many besides pauper children whose parents cannot afford such a fee as 2s. 6d. per quarter ? — I do not think it ; but I think it may be a difficult case if they have three or four at school. 5518. You take account of the number of children in selecting those who are to be on the foundation ? — Always. 5519. As the bursaries given in the lower school are small in amount, do you not contemplate giving them in larger number, so as to make them equivalent to the total amount of bursaries given in the higher school? — I think, so far as we have done anything, the number is the same. 5520. I suppose, speaking generally, the bursaries obtainable in the lower school would be available for a much larger class of pupils than those obtainable in the upper classes? May the bursaries in the lower classes be regarded as more open to the children of the poor than those 486 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. given in the higher classes ? — Well, I don't think so. If the higher school is as well attended as the lower, they will be very much on the same footing. 5521. And you expect a considerable number of poor children to be in the higher school when the funds admit ? — Yes. 5522. Sir William Stirling-Maxwell. — We have had evidence to-day that there has been a considerable amount of popular discontent with the management of this school, and an exaggerated notion has got abroad as to the annual revenue. Did any reports of that kind ever reach your ears ? — Never. I never heard of any dissatisfaction of any kind with the management. 5523. We had a memorial some time ago presented to us. Did that memorial never reach your ears ? — I never heard of the memorial till it was presented to the Commission. During all the time I have had to do with the hospital, I have never heard dissatisfaction expressed in connection with it. 5524. Have you seen this memorial ? — Never. It is signed by the Rev. William Parlane, U. P. minister ; John Paterson, Free Manse, Tranent ; and the Rev. Thomas Mathie, U. P. Manse, Tranent. Mr. Mathie has been in the parish about six months. 5525. Look over the other names, and tell us if any one of these parties ever applied to you for information as to the funds of the hos- pital ? — Never. 5526. Or any questions connected with its management? — Never. I saw one of them after this memorial had been sent away, and I said, 1 What is this petition or memorial that you have sent about StielPs Hos- pital ? ' He said, ' Oh, we would like to get our children educated at the expense of the hospital ; and the meaning of the memorial is simply to save our pockets and save school rates, and that was the statement made to almost all the parties who had signed the memorial.' 5527. Was it a gentleman who had signed the paper who said that to you ? — Yes ; and I am told that some who signed it regret exceedingly that they did so. It was stated to them that the meaning of it was simply to prevent any school rate being levied under the Education Act. 5528. If any of those parties had applied to you for information as to the management of the hospital, or as to its funds, you would have given it at once? — Most certainly. 5529. So it would be an entire mistake to suppose there was the slightest desire on the part of those connected with the management of the institution to preserve any secrecy whatever in the matter, or to keep it secret ? — There was no object we had in view in making it secret. The truth is, that all our money matters go through the hand of an auditor yearly, and the factor and auditor are the parties who have most to do with the funds. If any one had asked me, I would have been happy to have given them information about our annual income, and the way in which it has been spent. It has been expended, to the best of our ability, for the improvement of the hospital and for the comfort of the scholars. 5530. As matter of fact, none of the complainers ever applied for in- formation to the parties best able to give it ? — I never heard such a thing in existence. If they had come to me and said, ' We would like to know what funds you have, because there are rates coming on, and we would like to know if there is a possibility of anything being done,' I would have been most happy to have given any information in my power. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 487 5531. Mr. Ramsay. — So far as you have given education to the poor, Rev. the effect would be really in the direction the memorialists desire, — to lessen the rates? — Entirely. We have opened the school for a very small fee. It is open to the parish, and we have never shut the door on any one. 5532. But you have never, in point of fact, given publicity to your accounts, or made public the actual revenue and the actual expenditure? — It never was done. 5533. The trustees never considered the expediency of publishing their accounts? — They never thought of such a thing. I have had to do with Schaw's Hospital as well, and I never heard it talked of there either. 5534. Do you know what the public assessments amount to in Tranent ? — They are pretty heavy. I think the poor rate on houses is Is. 9d. per pound, and on land 7d. I do not know the aggregate amount of rates collected for all public purposes. 5535. The changes you have introduced since 1870 have worked bene- ficially, so far as your judgment goes? — Admirably. 5536. And, as I understand, you propose to do away with all residents in the hospital ? — Yes. 5537. And to introduce as many day scholars as the accommodation you have will provide for ? — Yes ; and though the question has never occurred or been considered, I have no hesitation in saying, that if they come in such numbers as that the present rooms would not hold them, we would take steps to get other rooms made suitable. 5538. Have the funds from which your revenue is derived increased under the administration of the governors since the school was first es- tablished in 1821 ? — I think they must have increased. We have added to our capital recently, but I cannot say how much. We have been rather economical for some time back, and therefore we were able lately, with- out touching the capital, to furnish the rooms and do other things at con- siderable cost. I should think the funds are upon the whole larger than what they were. 5539. The net revenue, contrasted with the gross revenue, is very con- siderably diminished. I suppose it is by the public rates ? — Yes ; they are very heavy. On the Edinburgh houses there is a great deduction every year. 5540. Would you furnish us with details showing how far the capital has increased of late years, and the principal sources from which the revenue is derived, along with the details of the expenditure ? — Yes. 5541. The Chairman. — Is there a privilege in favour of those of the name of Stiell? — There is. 5542. Have you any of that name there ? — I think we have but one, a girl, who is one of the paying girls ; but we never had a Stiell, so far as I can recollect, applying for admission to the hospital. 5543. Mr. Parker. — It seems there are 60 children going free to the school, and we were told there are 48 children of paupers paid for by the parish, making 108 in the parish receiving free education. From your knowledge of the parish, do you think there would be many beyond that number who ought to have a free education ? — I do not. 5544. You think that, after providing for the 108 receiving free edu- cation, most of the other parents are able to pay a fee of 2s. 6d. ? — I think so ; or if they are not able, they should be able ; but I think, as a rule, they are able. 5545. And if the question should be raised whether these 48 children 488 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. of paupers, at present educated out of the poor rate, should be thrown upon your endowment, what view would you take of the proposal ? — I think when we have so many from the working classes who are not paupers to admit on the free list, it is better to keep by them ; because — of course under the compulsory clauses of the Education Act it may be different — if we did come to the relief of that class, many of their children would probably not be educated at all, whereas the Parochial Board always gives education, as I understand, to the pauper children. ' 5546. Do you think it of more benefit to the parish of Tranent to give a somewhat higher education in the school than to relieve the ratepayers from paying for these children ? — Yes. 5547. Speaking in the interest of the poor as well as the others ? — Yes. I may say, from my knowledge of the people of Tranent, that the hospital is one of the greatest boons and blessings which any parish in Scotland enjoys. 5548. The Chairman. — Have you ever considered the propriety of adding to the number of trustees ? — I believe there are legal difficulties in the way of such a step. 5549. But supposing these legal difficulties were overcome, do you think it would not be expedient to have a larger number of trustees ? — I do not know. Personally I would have no objection to there being one or two more ; but the funds of the hospital, and all connected with it, have done so admirably under the trustees already named in the trust deed, that I would be slow to recommend an addition. 5550. Mr. Parker. — Do you not think it would be expedient to have a second resident trustee ? — I would have no objection to empowering the existing trustees to add to their number. 5551. If they had such a power, do you think they would probably elect some resident gentleman ? — Yes. For example, I always regretted that the laird of St. Germains was not, as laird, in all time coming asso- ciated with the trust. Mr. James Hope, Deputy-Keeper of the Signet, examined. Mr. James 5552. The Chairman. — You are one of the trustees of John Watson's H(, P e - Hospital ? — I am. 5553. The present trust was constituted in 1822 ? — Yes. 5554. That Act of 1822 left you considerable discretion as to the class of children from whom you were to select ? — It did. 5555. Did it require that the advantages of the institution should be confined to orphans ? — I do not think that is in the Act of Parliament ; I think it is one of our own regulations that the father should be dead. There have been only two cases, I believe, in which we have taken children whose fathers were alive, and in these cases they were hopelessly insane in an asylum. 5556. By the terms of the Act, the institution is generally for the maintenance and education of destitute children, but by the rules of the managers it has been confined to orphans ? — To the fatherless. 5557. There is a restriction as to the class from whom you were to select ? — Yes. 5558. In answer to questions, it is stated that the children are all, or nearly all, from the better class ? — Yes ; we endeavour to get them from that class. At first it was not so, and the children were taken from any MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 489 class, however poor ; but after a year or two, it was found that it did not Mr. Jamee work well, from different classes of parents coming about the house, and Sop©, for many years we have confined it as much as possible to the better class. 5559. What do you mean by saying the former system did not work well ? — It did not suit well to have different classes of relations coming about the house. 5560. It was because the other classes were already provided for by other institutions ? — No. 5561. Still that reason would operate with you at present against admitting children of the lower classes? — Yes ; I think so. 5562. Now, with regard to admission, the children are not limited to Edinburgh? — No; we include the whole country, and we do not even limit ourselves to Scotland. I have a case now to submit where the grandfather is in India, and all the family seem to be in England. It is a good case, and, so far as I know, it will be taken. 5563. As being a deserving case? — Yes. 5564. Then, practically, you have a considerable number of applica- tions from other parts of the country ? — There are a greater number every year than we provide for. 5565. Besides being fatherless, do you take into consideration the circumstances of the family ? — Yes. 5566. That the parents are able, or not able, to support their chil- dren ? — That is all inquired into, as well as the status of the mother and her relations. 5567. Is that inquiry conducted by a committee of the managers or trustees ? — We give out printed schedules, and all the -answers must be filled up to our satisfaction. 5568. I see the number of applications is considerably more than the number of actual vacancies ? — Almost always. 5569. The applicants are all fatherless children, — that is stated in the schedule ? — Yes ; that is stated in the schedule. 5570. The children on leaving, I see, receive a sum of money ? — Yes. 5571. For a certain number of years ? — Yes ; if we continue to get a satisfactory account of them. If we did not, we would stOp it. 5572. And also for extra education of a higher order in special cases? What sort of assistance do you give in that way ? — We have hardly had any of these cases. 5573. Is it that the directors have no rule as to providing for those children ? — Yes ; and I do not think we have had any applications for aid afterwards. ; • 5574. And there are no inducements held out to the children, while they are with you, to prepare themselves for higher education by offering them encouragement to do so ? — No. 5575. In your answers you state that the status of the children has been heightened by the directors, in the belief that the institution will thereby afford greater benefit than if the children were selected from all classes of the deserving poor. In what direction has that alteration been made ? — As I mentioned, at first we took them from any class, but for a great many years past we have confined ourselves to the best we could get, — generally children of doctors, clergymen, army surgeons, lawyers, and persons connected with the navy. 5576. Are they all in decayed circumstances? — Yes. It has twice happened that the barrack-master here has died, leaving his children des- titute, and we took one or two in at once. 490 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Mr. James 5577. Why do you state the institution will afford greater benefits than Ho P 6 , if the children were selected from all classes ? — We think there is no other institution, here at all events, where the class we take could go to or would like to go, and I don't know where there is any that would actually take them. 5578. And it enables you to frame the education accordingly? — Yes; they are very well educated. 5579. When the Endowed Schools Act was passed, it was under con- sideration of the directors, was it not, whether they should take advantage of that Act ? — It was. 5580. And they decided against doing so ? — Yes ; mainly for the reason that this was the only institution into which the better class could get. 5581. Then you are of opinion that the children are under no disad- vantage by being kept so many years in the hospital, and not mixing with other children in the course of their education % — No, we do not find it so. We allow them to go out as much as we can. All who have friends or relations about Edinburgh are allowed to go every week, and those from a distance go home for their holidays. 5582. Do all the children go home for holidays ? — All ; unless sometimes their friends do not wish it, and ask us to keep them in ; but I think there were only three or four remaining this last year. Sometimes there are none. We do not wish them to remain. 5583. And it was your opinion that the defects supposed to attach to the hospital system do not apply to the children there ? — I do not think they do. 5584. You do not think there would be any advantage from their being boarded out instead of being kept in the institution? — I do not think they would be so well cared for. 5585. Nor from the school being united with any larger school, in which they would mix with out-door scholars ? — We thought not. 5586. Has that subject been considered by the directors ? — Very fully, at the time of the Merchant Company's application to us. 5587. And you have no suggestions ? — No ; nothing more than what was stated in the answers. 5588. Mr. Lancaster. — Do I understand the directors have considered the question of boarding out the boys at the hospital as they do now, and giving them education elsewhere, and do not see the desirability of doing so ? — Yes ; we thought not. 5589. And, looking to the class of boys and girls you have in the hos- pital, you have not seen any traces of the educational listlessness of which we have heard ? — No, I do not think it. 5590. Speaking generally, you do not think the system of education in the hospital leads to educational listlessness ? — No, I do not think it. 5591. Can you explain why it is, looking to the class of society from which your boys as a rule are taken, that so few go to the University? — I do not know. I think the friends, at least generally, desire to get them out into some profession immediately. From the returns we get, we find they are usually employed in some way of that sort. 5592. I see from the return that almost none of the boys go to the University ? — They are rather young to go to the University ; they leave at fourteen. 5593. Do you think it would be expedient in any case to keep them longer if they showed ability? — That has been considered too; but we consider that as long as we have boys and girls, it would not do to MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 491 keep them longer. It has been once or twice considered whether we Mr. James should confine ourselves to boys altogether. If we did that, we might Hope, keep them longer ; but at present we do not think it advisable. 5594. But supposing you were keeping the boys longer, you think that probably some of them would show a capacity for study that would lead to their going to the University ? — I should think they would. 5595. It is their age only that is against it at present ? — Yes. 5596. Mr. Parker. — Have you ever considered whether part of the hos- pital funds might not be applied to send very promising boys of fourteen to continue their education elsewhere ? — We have the power to do that, but I think, as I have mentioned, we have never been applied to by friends to do so. 5597. The friends have generally preferred to send them to occupations ? — Yes. I do not recollect of any application of that sort being made to us. 5598. And if there were such an application, it would be considered ? — Yes. We have full power, and if we saw good cause we could grant it. 5599. I see that at present you have fifty-four boys and forty-four girls ?— Yes. 5600. Is the smaller number of girls accidental or intentional? — Acci- dental. I think we rather prefer to have more boys than girls, but it depends upon the state of the applications each year. It might happen that some of the boys' applications were bad and some of the girls' good, and in that case there would be more girls admitted than boys ; but in general we divide them as evenly as we can. 5601. The founder's will left it quite free to select the pious and charitable purposes for which the institution should be preserved ? — The founder's will, if I remember aright, left the bequest for a foundling hos- pital, and that was considered so bad that we got an Act of Parliament to alter it. 5602. Do you think the original intention of the founder affords some reason why girls should not be altogether set aside in the application of the revenues ? — I do not see why they should. 5603. That the girls should have half the benefits of the foundation ? — So they have. The boys and girls are generally very nearly divided. 5604. But I think you mentioned an intention to get rid of the girls ? — No intention. We have sometimes considered it, with a view to keeping the boys longer. 5605. But there is no practical intention to put an end to receiving girls ? — None whatever. 5606. And it is only accidental that the number of girls is lower? — Yes ; I have known it the other way. Adjourned. 492 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. TUESDAY, 28M January 1873. PRESENT Sir Edward Colebrooke, Bart., Chairman. Mr. Parker. Mr. Ramsay. Rev. Dr. Buchanan, Dr. Anderson Kirkwood, and Mr. Brown (Patrons of Hutchesons Hospital, Glasgow) ; Mr. Hoggan, one of the partners of Messrs. Hill, Davidson, & Hoggan (Clerks and Cham- berlains) ; and Mr. Menzies (Head Master). Patrons 5607. The Chairman. — We are desirous of ascertaining generally the a p d nature and amount of the sums left under the different trusts, and the differ- H^hJsons ent ob j ects for wnich the y were destined %—Mr. Hoggan.— The first sum Hospital, that was left was by George Hutcheson, 20,000 merks, to the effect that Glasgow, the annual rent thereof should be bestowed on aged and decrepid men. The next is by Thomas Hutcheson, of 10,500 merks for the same object. Then comes Thomas Hutcheson's bequest of 20,200 merks, for an hospital for educating and harbouring twelve male children, orphans or others. There are also three tenements of land left by both parties, on which the hospital was built. The fourth mortification is of 10,000 merks, added by Thomas Hutcheson to his brother George's settlement, for both the old men and the orphans. That completes the total of the sums left by the two brothers Hutcheson, with the exception of the land. 5608. Mr. Ramsay. — The house for the hospital, and the barn and barn- yard ?— Yes. 5609. The barn and barn-yard were intended to be made into a distinct house % — Yes. 5610. The Chairman. — Take the other mortifications included in the same trust. — There is one by James Blair of 10,000 merks, for pensions of 100 merks to each of three old and indigent men, and 200 merks among four boys. 5611. We wanted to know how far the pensions and education are settled in the bill, — to ascertain the nature of the trust, and the different proportions ? — In making out the proportion, it was found it was as nearly as possible two to one — two for the pensions, and one for the education. 5612. So far as Hutcheson's bequests were concerned? — Yes. 5613. The proportion for education is rather more than for pensions ? —Oh no. 5614. It is put generally in your recent Act of Parliament, and we want to know exactly what proportion has been kept and what expended ? — This is the proportion: Por the old men (in sterling money), £1694, 8s. 10|d. ; for the boys, £1122, 4s. 5jd.j and for both jointly, £556, lis. l|d. = £3373, 4s. 5Jd. 5615. Have all these funds been lumped together in one investment, or have any of them been kept separate ! — They are all together, treated as one fund, and have never been separate. 5616. And been invested in the same way ? — Yes; there was never any distinction between the two funds. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 493 5617. What does your statement show with regard to Baxter's and Patrons flair's mortifications? — Blair's mortification was 10,000 merks, — £555, officials of 1 Is. 1 Jd., — for pensions of £5, 1 Is. 1 Jd. to each of three old and indigent Hutchesons men, and the balance of £11, 2s. 2§d. for the education of four boys. Hospital, That is in the proportion of three to pensions and two to education. G lasgo w. 5618. The amount of Baxter's is not stated? — It was the half of his estate. 5619. And with regard to Baxter's, you have just kept up the payment of existing pensions ? — As nearly as possible. 5620. Was the capital fund thrown with the rest in the investment ? — No ; Baxter's is kept quite distinct. Blair's and Hutchesons' are together. Scott's and Baxter's are quite distinct, and Hood's also. 5621. Then, to come to the division^ you have a general power to apply a part not exceeding two-thirds of the revenues of the hospital, and of Blair's and Baxter's mortifications, half the revenue of Scott's, and the whole of the revenue of Hood's, in the payment of pensions ? — Yes. 5622. And a part not exceeding one- third of the capital, and the remainder of the revenues of the hospital, and the remainder of the morti- fications, in the carrying out of education ? — Yes. 5623. The relative amount of the two are not found in the bill. Was it not easy to draw a line between the proportions of the two ? — It might have been done, but it was thought that some latitude should be given to the patrons in connection with the matter, and that the time might possibly come when a larger sum might be devoted to education. 5624. Did you consider that one-third was the whole amount which, under the strict terms of the trust, could be expended in that way ? — That was the view we took from the original mortifications. 5625. But you considered that, under the terms of the trust, it was in the discretion of the patrons to apply more if they thought proper ? — Quite. 5626. With regard to the investment of the funds, I understand that all Hutchesons Hospital money is one fund, invested in certain landed pro- perty ? — Yes. 5627. And that land is still in possession of. the patrons? — Still in possession of the patrons. A portion of it is feued out, and a portion of it is occupied as brickfields and arable land in the neighbourhood of Glasgow coming gradually in for feuing. 5628. The money part was laid out in land, and there was certain land besides which was specially left, and on which the hospital stood ? — Yes. The land on which the hospital originally stood was sold. One of the streets of Glasgow was opened up through the property, and portions adjoining were feued out for annual payments, which we receive. 5629. You have never estimated what the particular value of the land was as compared with the rest of the fund? — At present the ground- annuals we get from the property we had originally is £390, 6s. 3d. 5630. On which the hospital stood ? — Yes. 5631. Besides that, there is the land you bought with the trust money? —Yes. 5632. Mr. Ramsay. — Was the house property in Hutcheson Street the property referred to in the original will? — Yes. 5633. As the house to be given for an hospital? — Yes. 5634. The Chairman. — And the value of that was taken into consider- ation in fixing the proportion of one-third and two-thirds? — Yes. The whole matter had been under consideration by the patrons. 5635. With regard to the present value of the property, you derive a very large income from it, I think ? Have you any means of estimating 494 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons the probable increase on the fund ? — I could not condescend upon that. Officiate of ^ depends entirely upon our feuing from time to time. Hutchesons 5636. But is it in course of being feued from year to year? — Yes, from Hospital, year to year. We have no doubt the day may come when the revenues of asgo w ' the hospital will be very considerably augmented, because the ground is be- coming very valuable. The last land we sold yielded us 23s. a square yard. 5637. You could not state what increase you have had within the last two or three years, from year to year ? — I have not a statement of that kind, but I can furnish it. 5638. How much land is there not feued? — I think 100 acres, in round numbers. 5639. And you estimate it as capable of a considerable increase in value ? — If it were all feued out, the revenues would be very much larger — double, perhaps, what we have just now. 5640. Mr. Ramsay.— Are you feuing rapidly? — No ; we have not been feuing very much lately. 5641. The Chairman. — With regard to the nature of the trust, the trustees have hitherto been the Town Council and certain ex officio members ? — Yes ; the members of the Town Council, embracing the Lord Dean of Guild, Deacon Convener, and ten ministers of the Estab- lished churches. That was the former constitution. Now the number is augmented by three persons to be annually elected by the Merchants' House of Glasgow ; three persons to be annually elected by the Trades' House of Glasgow ; together with six ministers, not being mini- sters of the Established Church, to be elected by the patrons in general meeting assembled, and not more than two ministers of any one denomi- nation to be elected to hold office at one time; making up the total number of patrons now to 72. 5642. Mr. Ramsay. — What was the object of that last provision? — That was inserted at Lord Redesdale's suggestion. We had not stated it in our original bill. 5643. The Chairman. — There is an addition of 12 to the number of patrons ? — Yes ; there were 60 before. 5644. Do the patrons hold regular meetings from time to time for the management of business? — Yes. 5645. State the usual course they take? — The first or statutory meeting is generally held in November, immediately after the election of the Town Council. At that meeting they appoint the preceptor and committees of their number to manage the affairs of the hospital in committee. There are various committees, — one on land, which takes charge of the feuing of land and looks after property ; a committee on finance, a committee on education, a committee on repairs, a committee on clothing for the boys, and a committee on applications for pensions. 5646. The Chairman. — Are these committees invested with full powers to dispose of all matters connected with their several departments ? — To this extent only, that there is a minute kept of every one of the meetings of the committees, and they are submitted to meetings of the general body at stated intervals for approval. 5647. But these committees have no power to decide on these ques- tions without the approval of the full body ? — The committee on land, for instance, if an offer to feu property is submitted, have power to accept that offer, and advertise the ground for sale. The committee on education put all the necessary machinery in operation for electing children, but they do not elect the children. The general meeting elects the children. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 495 5648. Are all questions of pensions decided by the general meeting? — Patrons Yes ; and of the admission of boys. Every year the applications are all officials of printed, with recommendations from the committee as to which particular Hutcbesons pensions should be granted, and which particular boys should be admitted. Hospital, 5649. Is there only one general meeting in the year? — No; we have a8gQ W> other meetings. I may mention, in connection with education, that the boys, when they first apply, get schedules, which are filled up and re- turned. They are put into a book, and the homes of the children are visited by a sub-committee, who report to the committee, and they report to a general meeting of the patrons. 5650. Are these general meetings fully attended by the members ? — Eleven trustees, by the constitution, are a quorum ; but we generally have 20, and sometimes 30 or 40, present. 5651. Both for deciding on pensions and on admissions to the school? — Yes. One meeting is generally held in March for the election of the boys, who are admitted to the school in the month of April, and another in the latter end of April, for the election of pensioners. 5652. There is no complaint ever made as to the inconvenience of having so large a number of patrons ? — I never heard any complaint. 5653. With regard to the ministers, are they elected by the patrons? — The additional ministers are elected by the patrons. 5654. Are they to be elected every year? — No; they hold office during their incumbency. 5655. But the death or retirement of one of them would raise the ques- tion of supplying the vacancy ? — Yes. The patrons then would fill up the vacancy in general meeting assembled. 5656. I see that it is stated that when the funds increased, the surplus is to be applied to female pensions ? — Yes. Such portion of the surplus as the patrons from time to time shall judge convenient. 5657. Is that minuted ? — It is set forth in the Act of Parliament. 5658. The fact is stated, but the grounds are not stated? — Yes. On pages 10 and 11 of the Act of Parliament you will find a minute setting forth in detail what was the origin of the female pensions. That was in the year 1737. 5659. By that it is stated, I see, that after providing for the mainten- ance of the twelve old men and twelve boys for whom the hospital was founded, the patrons had resolved to bestow the surplus on poor old decayed women ? — Such part thereof as the patrons from time to time shall think proper towards the maintenance of widows and relicts of persons who had been of credit and reputation. 5660. Do I understand that it was considered the objects of the trust were fulfilled in limiting the number of pensions to old men and the education of boys, and that the patrons are at liberty to apply the surplus in that way? — The minute of 1737, as set forth in the Act of Parliament, is referred to as an answer to this question. 5661. Do you know whether there was any legal opinion taken at the time ? — The minutes bear that there was a diversity of opinion at the time ; but one reason that actuated the Town Council was, that the town had done a great deal for the hospital when matters got into difficulties, and had come forward and assisted it. 5662. From the burgh funds? — Yes. They nurtured it, and took great care of it. 5663. And therefore they considered they had some equitable claim in determining the application of the surplus ? — Apparently so. 496 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons 5664. In the Act you have now obtained, is the same proportion Officials of mamtamec * between the pensions? — There is nothing said in the Act Hutchesona regarding the proportions as between male and female pensioners. Hospital, 5665. Will the patrons have it in their discretion to fix the pensions, G lasgo w, either to men or women, as they think proper? — -Just as they thiuk proper. Certainly when we find a case of an old man who is eligible, we would give him a preference over a female. 5666. And as to the amount of pensions, you are not restricted in any way as to the application of the two-thirds of the revenue? But have your powers been enlarged to give them to a class not specified in the deed — that is to say, more generally to persons connected with the city ? — In consequence of the change in the burgess qualification, it was rendered necessary to apply for an Act. 5667. And you propose to apply the same rule with regard to boys as to their education? — In what way? 5668. To the maintenance of the school. Hitherto the claims for ad- mission to the school have been limited to the children of burgesses ? — No ; we take in grandchildren, and in some cases we take in children of people who have carried on business in Glasgow, whether they are burgesses of Glasgow or not, — people who have benefited Glasgow. We have power under our Act to do that. 5669. Mr. Ramsay. — You may appoint persons either to the school or to pensions without reference to burgess-ship ? — Yes. 5670. The Chairman. — In fact, anybody connected with the city who is resident? — We were obliged to put in a provision at page 21 of the Act to satisfy the Trades' House, reserving always the existing rights and preferences of persons enrolled as burgesses prior to 13th January 1871. 5671. I understand that the children of burgesses will have a prefer- able claim ? — Other matters considered. 5672. But hitherto the school you have opened has been confined to the children of burgesses ? — No ; it has not been confined to burgesses for many years. Fully thirty years ago we began to take in the grand- children, and afterwards, in consequence of the difficulty of getting the burgess qualification, we took in the children of citizens who had carried on business in Glasgow. 5673. Are the numbers of burgesses diminishing in Glasgow ? — I think so. I think the number of burgesses' boys admitted is very few. 5674. It was a matter of necessity to open the advantages of the school to a larger body, or the school would not have done so much good ? — Quite. The necessity for entering burgess-ship in Glasgow is now done away with, so far as carrying on business is concerned. 5675. Part of the destination of the funds was to put children out to trade. Have you carried out that part of it ? — No. I should fancy that has not been done for a century and a half. 5676. When you give them a good education you think they are fairly launched ? — That is the only thing we have been doing hitherto, with the exception of the boys we send to the High School. 5677. Do you send boys to the High School ? — We generally have sent the dux boy to the High School ; and when other boys have shown aptitude, we have sent them also. We have six just now at the High School, and pay all their fees, clothe them, and give them maintenance money. 5678. Clothing and maintenance is given to all the boys in the Hospital School at present ? — No ; we only give maintenance money to burgesses' MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 497 sons, and only clothing to the other boys. There are twenty-three just now in the hospital school getting maintenance money, being the sous of burgesses. 5679. Does the Act you have obtained differ in any important particu- lars from the scheme that was submitted under the Endowed Schools Act of 1869 ? — No ; it is pretty much the same. 5680. That scheme was sent up to the Home Office ? — We sent it up to the Home Office, and met with the Secretary of State on the subject of it. 5681. But it did not receive sanction? — No; so far as I understood, the Lord Advocate had some difficulty about the operation of the Act of 1869. It was given out as the opinion of some parties that any pro- visional order under that Act expired with the Act itself. 5682. In consequence of that, you thought it necessary to introduce a private bill ? — Yes. 5683. Did you do that with the concurrence of the Lord Advocate 1 Was the scheme submitted to Government ? — The Lord Advocate, as I understood, took an interest in the bill, and Mr. Dalglish, our member, and other members of Parliament, took a lively interest in it also. 5684. But the patrons themselves had no direct communication with Government on the subject of the terms of the bill ? — Not directly. I may mention that the Lord Advocate was communicated with, though not officially, by us, and I understand expressed an opinion that a private bill might be the most advisable mode of procedure for the patrons. 5685. You had no direct communication from him to that effect? — No. It is right to mention also what really was one of the objects of our apply- ing. At a general meeting, on 16th April 1869, when we proposed to give away pensions, a protest was tabled by the Deacon Convener of the Trades' House, which placed us in an awkward position. He protested against pensions from the funds of the hospital being given to those who were not within the objects of the institution, as burgesses, or widows or children of burgesses. 5686. Will you state what that referred to? Was it about receiving pensions ? — It was that unless they were burgesses' widows and children, none of the citizens of Glasgow should get the benefits Qf this institution. 5687. It was directed against both education and pensions ? — Yes. 5688. Had you begun to give pensions to other than burgesses, apart from the women? — Yes. In one or two cases we had begun to give pen- sions without regard to the burgess qualification, in the case of people who had carried on business in Glasgow, and who, but for the alteration in the law, would have been compelled to be burgesses. 5689. Were you threatened with litigation on that account? — That was the protest which was tabled. We presumed it might have been carried further ; and if it had been, we would have been in a very awkward position. 5690. In fact, you were compelled to get an Act of Parliament to cover any doubt as to the legality of your proceedings? — The object was partly that, and partly to give us the power to extend the benefits of the institution in a way we felt to be beneficial to Glasgow. 5691. Mr. Ramsay. — But the Act you obtained has not altered the mode of administering the funds, or made it different from what it was before ? — We have done nothing yet under our late Act but appoint the new patrons. We are waiting to see the operation of the Education Act, so that we may adapt ourselves to the altered circumstances. 5692. The Chairman. — There has been no meeting of the patrons since 2 i Patrons and Officials of Hutcliesons Hospital, Glasgow. 498 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons the Act was passed except for purposes of election? — We have had Officials of meetm £ s f° r current business. Hutchesons 5693. For admission of persons to pensions and of boys to the school? Hospital, — Yes ; we are just on the eve of electing to the school, and have been Glasgow, giving out schedules for persons applying for pensions. 5694. In the case of admission to the school, have you numerous applications made to you out of which you select ? — A great number. 5695. Can you state in what proportion? — Mr. Menzies. — We have probably 20.0 preliminary applications. After examination and investi- gation, schedules are issued to seventy or eighty of these. That has been the case for several years. Then, after visitation of the cases by the patrons and further inquiry, probably thirty or forty of them are elected, so that I should say one in about every five is the proportion of admissions. 5696. Is there any entrance examination ? — Yes ; and the new Act pro- vides it shall be such as is suitable to the age of the applicant. 5697. Are you at liberty to fix any standard you think proper? — The Act requires the standard to be fixed suitably to the age of the applicant. 5698. But nothing else with regard to the standard? You might have a standard for the secondary school as well as the elementary school ? — The Act is quite open in that respect. 5699. What is the nature of the standard in which you examine the children? — They are expected to read a book of easy narrative fluently, to write a little, and to cypher a little, at the age of eight or nine years. 5700. What is the earliest age at which they are received ? — Eight years at present. 5701. Do the patrons also take into consideration the circumstances and necessities of the parents? — That certainly has been done very much. 5702. Are they all children of poor parents? — They are generally children of parents in reduced circumstances, so far as my experience goes. 5703. Not necessarily children of labouring parents ? — No. 5704. Your school is principally an elementary school ? — It is essentially so. For a number of years an effort has been made to go a step further with the senior section of the boys. 5705. Is the attendance of the children good ? — It is very good. The per-centage of absenteeism for the last eleven years, taken from good statistics, has been about 7*8 per cent., giving 92-2 of attendance, which will bear favourable comparison with most schools. 5706. Have you any rules with regard to attendance, or depriving the children of any advantages in order to give them a motive to attend ? — I understand there existed a use-and-wont rule, that if a boy absented himself three days he was excluded from the school, but in my time that rule has never been put in force. 5707. In the case of not attending school for a considerable number of days, do you not report the case to the patrons? — I should at once report the case to the Education Committee. 5708. And the children or their parents having full knowledge of that, it operates as an inducement to maintain good attendance? — I have no doubt it is one of the reasons. 5709. Mr. Ramsay. — Has the school been inspected at all ? — It was inspected by Mr. Gibson some twenty or thirty years ago, and by one of the assistant Commissioners on Education in Scotland more recently. 5710. There is no regular system of inspection enforced by the MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 499 governors ? — The Education Committee appoint some of their number to Patrons visit the school weekly, and make such examination and inspection as officials of they may think necessary. There is also an annual examination of the Hutchesons school by the whole of the Committee. Hospital, 5711. There is no inspection of the school by any qualified inspector? abgo w ' — Not by a Government inspector, nor by any official as such. 5712. The Chairman. — Is there any periodical examination made by yourself ? — I do so systematically. When a class attains a certain point, and should be advanced, I examine it carefully before it is passed on, and I have a systematic supervision of its general progress. At the end of the year I have a written examination of the senior class of boys who are leaving the institution. I have a specimen here of the examination papers, which I produce. 5713. Do you promote the classes regularly from time to time if they are qualified, or do you advance boys according to their special proficiency from one class to another ? — According to proficiency and acquirements. 5714. How do you make a selection of the boys to be sent to the High School ? — The dux boy is sent ; and last year we sent other two of superior attainments. 5715. Is it by any competitive examination, or by their position in the class ? — We mark each boy's place in the class from the beginning of the session to the end, and we take the position at the end of the session from the markings. 5716. How long do the six remain at the High School who have been sent there ? — Four years. 5717. That will be one every nine months, as it were? — Some of the boys who have been there have not completed their period of four years. In some years we have sent two, and in some three. 5718. As there is a vacancy, you fill it up by a boy who you think has distinguished himself ? — The vacancy is not filled up during the year. It is filled up at the beginning of the High School session. 5719. But there is no special examination by which you can test the different candidates, so as to try them side by side? — That has been ascertained by the general systematic competition in school. The boy is selected who has made the greatest attainment. 5720. Are their positions in the class fixed by the separate masters or by yourself ? — The head teacher assigns the position to each boy there. The patrons allow him to do so. 5721. The patrons select, and you report whom you recommend? — I recommend the boys to be sent to the High School. 5722. Do the patrons always act upon your recommendation ? — They have done so hitherto. I may mention that for a number of years there has been a disposition on the part of the patrons to increase the number of boys to be sent to the High School. 5723. Has there been any such proposition? — It has been the subject of consideration. 5724. But they have not come to any decision upon it ? — They have increased the number from four to six. 5725. Are not the numbers who can be educated at the school limited ? — They have been limited by the amount of funds available, and they would by and by be limited by the school premises ; but we can take in a few more. We might have to add to the school staff if we took in other thirty or forty. 5726. But the school buildings could receive a larger number of boys? 500 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons — They could ; to the extent of fifty, probably, with arrangement. One or Officials of two ass i stant teachers would be required. Hutohe6ons 5727. Is there any industrial teaching carried on 1 — None. Hospital, 5728. All the children now admitted are supposed to be the children Glasgow. 0 f fulgent or decayed parents ? — They are so. 5729. Has it ever been considered whether the school should be open to children on payment of fees ? — Mr. Hoggan. — That subject has never been considered. 5730. Is it your opinion that the parents of all the children who are there could not pay fees? — Mr. Menzies. — I can give details on that point. We have 79 whose fathers and mothers are living, but who were admitted owing to the necessitous circumstances of the families ; 2 who have stepfathers, which was deemed an element in the case ; 4 whose mothers are dead ; 83 whose fathers are dead ; 3 who have stepmothers, and whose fathers are dead ; 1 deserted by his father ; 2 deserted by father and mother ; and 10 orphans, — total, 184. We began the session with 205. 5731. Mr. Ramsay. — What is the accommodation of the school? — We have three rooms 35 feet by 25, and 15 feet high ; and there are three ante-rooms, 12 feet square. The ante-rooms are not suitable for teaching, being so small. 5732. The Chairman. — The Act, clause 6, empowers the patrons to continue the existing school, either gratuitously or for payment of fees, modified or otherwise, or under any altered regulations or arrangements, including gratuitous clothing and payment for maintenance. Do I under- stand that would enable you to charge fees from the children you re- ceive without any limit as to the amount? — Mr. Hoggan. — We were very anxious, when applying for the Act of Parliament, to make its pro- visions as broad in their character as we possibly could, so that in the event of circumstances requiring it, the patrons would have power to do what might be necessary. 5733. In fact you could, under the Act of Parliament, change the character of the school if you thought fit ? — The powers given to the patrons under the Act are certainly very broad. 5734. And you could form the elementary school into a secondary school ? — Quite. That was one of our views ; but we have done nothing under the Act till we should see what was to be done with elementary schools under the Education Act. 5735. Was the provision introduced in view of some such change being carried out ? — Not necessarily. 5736. There was no present thought of altering the nature of the instruction and the character of the school? — None. 5737. But they wished power to extend education if they thought fit ? — Yes ; to girls as well as to boys. 5738. And to do away with it if they thought the circumstances of the city required it ? Do I understand that 1 — No. The patrons were anxious to have the powers made as broad as possible, with the view of doing as much benefit as they could. 5739. It was not so much from any consideration of the existing state of Glasgow as from a desire to have the power to apply the school to any known wants the patrons might think required it ? — We certainly had no intention, when we asked these powers, to go beyond the class of children who had been entitled to the benefits of the institution before. 5740. Mr. Ramsay. — Have the patrons any rule by which the children of working men are excluded from the school ? — We have always acted MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 501 on the principle that the children should be the children of decayed Patrons people, — people who had been in better circumstances and been reduced, — official's of and we have never found any want of those. Hutchesons 5741. 'Decayed people' — is that in conformity with the particular Hospital, terms of the original bequest ? — Yes, we understand so. asgo w. 5742. But if there was an application for some orphan who was in great destitution, but whose parents had not been in better circumstances, you would give him a preference over one who was not an orphan but who had the other qualification ? — Yes ; and we have that power from Blair's bequest, which states nothing in connection with burgess qualifica- tion, but says they are to be poor and necessitous children. Under Blair's mortification we have been in the habit of taking in children of parents who were not able to bring them up, but who may not have carried on business. 5743. The Chairman. — In the 7th clause you take power to establish additional schools for boys and girls of the same description or grade, or for higher English education? — Yes. 5744. That was under the same discretionary power that the patrons wished to obtain, and not with any immediate intention of establishing a school of that kind ? — We intended, when we obtained the Act, to estab- lish a girls' school. There has been a strong desire expressed by many in Glasgow that a school for girls, of the same class as the boys' school, should be established, and that was one of the objects we had in applying for the Act of Parliament. 5745. But the patrons thought it right to retain a discretion as to the nature of the school ? — Quite. 5746. And generally these various other provisions of the Act were obtained with the same view, — that you wished to have as large power as you could, and leave it to the discretion of the patrons afterwards to deter- mine in what direction they should be carried out ? — Yes. At the date of last meeting we had two boys from our school, and who had been sent to the High School, attending the University, — one coming out as a minister, and the other for the medical profession. A representation was made that these boys' means were so limited as to render them unable to prosecute their studies, and the patrons agreed to give £15 for one year until the matter should be further considered. 5747. That was not done under any competition? — They were very deserving boys, because they went from the hospital to the High School as meritorious boys. When they went to the University we watched their progress, and the assistance afforded them was done under the powers of clause 22 of the Act. 5748. That is the clause relative to bursaries ?— Yes. 5749. Mr. Hamsny. — Do you understand that these bursaries would be included in the proportion dest-ned for the purposes of education? — Yes. 5750. The ( hairman. — But with the exception of those two bursaries, the patrons have not yet considered whether any of the provisions of the Act shall be put in force ? — They have not. They thought it best to wait for a short time, till they saw the effect of the Education Act. There has been a special committee appointed by the patrons to take up the matter of the Act, and it has not been considered expedient yet to call the committee together, or make any movement in connection with the Act further than I have already stated. 5751. All this is a matter left for future consideration on the part of the patrons ? — Yes. 502 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons and Officials of Hutchesons Hospital, Glasgow. 5752. Have you any surplus now available for the extension of educa- tion? Mr. Menzies said that more could be done if you had the funds? — Mr. Menzies. — I understood that a certain sum was laid aside each year for the purposes of education. 5753. But I want to know whether you have any available surplus at present which could be applied to extending the operations of the school ? —Mr. Hoggan. — I hope so. Some of our new feus are coming into play. 5754. Mr. Ramsay. — What proportion of the revenue of last year was applied to the purposes of education ? — The statement last year showed our income was altogether £12,670, and of that we gave £6672 for pen- sions and £1963 for education. 5755. Do you regard the items contained in this account of £1963 as being all for the purpose of promoting education ? — Yes. 5756. To whom is the interest on the cost of buildings paid? — That is just a bookkeeping entry — a cross entry. 5757. And the feu duty of school ground ? — That is the same ; and it is quite right it should be, because if we had feued out the ground we should have got feu duty for it. 5758. Then this is less than the proportion you would hereafter apply? — Yes. By the Act, if we expend £6600 in pensions, we should at least apply £3300 in education. 5759. What was the basis upon which you rested your estimate that one-third should be applied to education ? — W r e based it upon the original sums granted by the Hutchesons. 5760. But the original sums are greater than one-third ? — They are pretty near that. But we take powers under the Act, and it may be that, in the future, education may have one-half ; the provision is that it shall not get less than one-third. 5761. Mr. Parker. — The Act says not less than one-half ? — That is for pensions. If you look at the fourth provision, you will see the patrons have power to apply the remainder of the revenues, and a part not exceed- ing one-third of the capital of the hospital, and the remainder of the revenues of Blair's, Baxter's, and Scott's mortifications, in furthering the cause of education. 5762. Mr. Ramsay. — But practically the sum you have stated would indicate that, of the original bequest by the Hutchesons, two-fifths at least were applicable to the cause of education, and less than three-fifths for pensions : that is from the statement you have yourselves made ? — We thought that one-third for education was answering the purpose very nearly of the original bequest. 5763. In fact, you understand it to be the desire of the patrons to extend the amount for pensions beyond the will of the Hutchesons, and to lessen that for education ? — No ; the patrons never gave any indication of that. The school, before it was placed where it is now, was a very small one. With the view of extending the school accommodation, we went over to the south side of the river, and I have always understood that the present school was pretty well filled with 200 children, so that, unless we had built a new school or additional buildings, there was no necessity in spending additional money. Some of the patrons have thought again and again of erecting a new school in another part of Glasgow alto- gether, but there has never been any indication shown on their part to give more to pensions and less to education. 5764. Do you not consider the fact of their having done so an indica- tion ? — Well, the matter was never placed before them in that light. Not MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 503 having accommodation, we have never had the same inducement to expend Patrons money in education. Officials of 5765. If you have the funds, would you have any difficulty in getting Hutchesons suitable rooms in Glasgow for the purposes of education? — I do not Hospital, think we would. G las g° 5766. Then you had the funds, and you applied them to paying pen- sions? — We have been applying the funds in the way we have done. The patrons have never really considered whether there was more for the one than the other. 5767. Do you not think it would be more in accordance with the will of the founder to have extended the appliances of education, and restricted the pensions, seeing they were given to some for whom they were not originally designed ? — Possibly it might. 5768. But this never presented itself as a duty to the patrons? — No. 5769. In considering the proportion, do you take into account the revenue derived from house property ? — Do you mean the £390? 5770. Half of that — the barn and barn-yard — seems to have been designated for the purposes of education exclusively ? — Yes. That is a very small sum in comparison with £11,870. 5771. It is not a large sum, but it would have been an element in determining — if the patrons had looked to the will of the founder — what proportion of their revenue they should apply to the cause of education? — From a very early period, certainly for fifty years and considerably more, the patrons have acted pretty much as they are now doing. The pension list has always been considerably higher than the education de- partment of the expenditure. 5772. The expenditure has been very much in the same proportion as we have in this account ? — Yes. 5773. You said you had no accommodation. Are the rooms not suit- able ? Would they not accommodate a greater number of scholars ? — Mr. Menzies. — We have, to a certain extent, accommodation which we might take in without altering our present conditions, probably to the number of about 50 scholars. We might take in more with the Government measure, but we could not take many more than the number I have indi- cated without engaging additional assistance ; and with the arrangement of the rooms as they at present are, it would be to teach expensively and not satisfactorily. 5774. If you had additional assistance you would be able to teach a greater number of scholars in the same premises you now occupy ? — Yes ; but I consider that the rooms, while too large for one teacher, are not large enough for two teachers in each of them. If other assistants were got, there would not be sufficient accommodation for a sufficient number of pupils for each of the teachers. 5775. But the rooms, according to the Government standard, would take in 360 or 380 scholars ? — I may have made an error in calculation. 5776. There are three rooms, each 35 feet by 25 feet? — Yes. 5777. Then that allows 327 ? — Yes ; but that space is not available in an economical way, on account of the form of the rooms. 5778. But there is a great margin between 327 and 184. How many teachers are there in the institution ? — Three English teachers, including myself. We began with 204 boys, 68 in each room ; that number has slightly diminished during the session. We have three visiting masters, viz. a drill master, a music master, and a drawing master. 5779. Have you any monitors in your classes ? — We employ them in a 504 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons and Officials of Hutchesons Hospital, Glasgow. slight degree, unpaid. In connection with this, I may say I would desire to see the school increased somewhat, because the organization is greatly more perfect with large numbers — that is to say, to a practicable extent. 5780. And you would approve of having a larger number in your school, if the patrons would provide you with teachers? — Mr. Menzies. — Yes, when their means are increased ; because we could select classes at the same stage of advancement in a more satisfactory way. I have invariably indicated that 50 or 60 pupiis per teacher is as much as efficient teaching would warrant. Including myself, there are three teachers. 5781. Mr. Parker. — In 'obtaining the Act, I understand it was the desire of the patrons to take very large powers ? — Mr. Hoggan. — Yes. 5782. And not to tie themselves up to the use of this or that power ? — Quite. 5783. But to have their option ? — Yes. If the state of Glasgow required them to take the benefit of these clauses, they have the power to do so. There was no immediate intention that I am aware of on the part of the patrons to put some of these clauses into operation ; but they looked forward, in obtaining the Act, to make the powers broad, and with the intention that these would be gradually brought into effect if necessary, and as the revenues of the hospital increased. 5784. As regards the Baxter bursary, for instance, they take power to increase the amount of it, but also to limit it to the original sum of £8 ? — Yes. The present sum is £8. It is limited to that by will, and that is a very small sum to a boy attending the University. 5785. Do you know whether they consider they have the power to in- crease it in proportion to the value of the mortification ? — We have not specifically stated that £8 was to be given to the boy. 5786. While the Act is broad in other respects, it is not quite so broad as regards the proportion of the money that can be applied to education? — We think it is. The patrons have power under the Act to give a half for education and a half for pensions ; and it provides further, that while that is so, they shall not give less than one-third to education. 5787. The patrons thought one-half the outside limit of what they could fairly ask for education? — Lord Redesdale went into the matter very carefully, and thought the limits we had fixed very proper in the circumstances. 5788. By far the largest part of the money comes from the Hutche- sons foundation ? — It does. I may mention that the capital of the Hutche- sons amounts to £251,000, and of all the others to £21,557. 5789. Confining our remarks to the Hutchesons foundation, we may say that the proportions were as 35 for pensions and 25 for education ? — Yes. 5790. At one time the funds decreased ? — Yes. 5791. And the governors at that time ceased to maintain boys? — Yes. In fact they were obliged to dismiss boys from the school, as there were no revenues for it. Had it not been for the great interest taken in the hospital by the corporation of Glasgow, and the happy investment by them for its behalf, the hospital would have been a very small affair indeed. 5792. When they were obliged to economize, did they economize in pensions as well as in education ? — In pensions too. There were some of the old pensions they were not able to maintain. But that is a long time ago — perhaps 200 years ago. 5793. When the funds increased again, they increased the pensions very much more than the education? — They did; there is no doubt of that. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 505 5794. At the time when they were going to extend the benefits to old Patrons women as well as to men, they put that upon two grounds, did they not ? — officials of upon the further donations which the governors themselves had made, and Hutchesons also upon advantageous purchases ? As regards the further donations, Hospital, do you consider that a good ground for determining the destination of the Glasgow, money? — No doubt. 5795. But do you consider that advantageous purchases made by trustees have any tendency to enlarge their discretion as to the use of the money? — They used that as a formula to set forth the object at the time. I daresay it was a stretch upon the part of the patrons ; but it has gone on from 1737 until now that females get the largest proportion. 5796. In a strictly legal point of view it would not be very defensible to do this, and encroach on the sum intended for old men and boys by the founder ? — We have only the minute to go by. 5797. In the year 1870 the number of old women in proportion to the number of old men and children had increased enormously ? — It had. 5798. Am I not correct in saying that in 1870 over £5000 was ex- pended upon old women ? — You are quite right. 5799. Besides the ordinary expenses'? — Yes. 5800. And at that time the number of old men was only 93 ? — Yes. 5801. And the total expenditure on the boys at that time was £1885 ? —Yes. 5802. Then the proportion which then existed between pensions and education is not at all the proportion which is now proposed ? — No. We propose to give a larger proportion now in education. 5803. Have the trustees ever considered whether the fact of their having applied a so much larger proportion in pensions for so many years does not constitute now a claim on the part of education for a larger proportion of what remains? — No; they have never considered it in that light. 5804. If it were taken for granted that the first proportion was two- thirds for pensions and one-third for education, would it not be only fan- now that the difference which has previously existed should be made good ? — I think the present generation have nothing to complain of. If we were to continue the old proportion after having obtained our Act of Parliament, it might be matter of complaint ; but I think the present generation have no claim to look upon it in that light, or to say that in respect of there having been more money spent upon pensions in bygone years, there should be a larger sum now given to education. I do not see that. 5805. You were asked whether there was any accumulated fund that could be applied to education ? — There is no accumulated fund, but there is additional revenue coming in from new feus, which would be applied to education. It is not proposed that we should take away any of the money we are giving in pensions, but that we should not go on giving pensions in the same proportion as we have been doing hitherto. As the pensions die off, they will swell the proportion we have to give to education. There is an evident disposition on the part of the patrons to extend the benefits of education. 5806. These accounts for the year 1871 are of course previous to the obtaining of the Act? — Yes. 5807. They are the latest indication we have of the proportion in which the governors expended the funds ? — Yes, they are the latest accounts. 506 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons The accounts are balanced at 31st December in each year. The accounts Officials of ^ or tne y ear 1^72 are not yet completed. Hutchesons 5808. In these accounts I find that the sum expended on pensions is Giafotv £6672 ' and on education £1963 ?— Yes. asgQ VV ' 5809. That is a very different proportion from what is now proposed? — Yes ; it is a much smaller proportion, because the Act would compel us to expend £3300 in education for £6600 in pensions. 5810. Then, up to the last accounts we have, the governors were only expending on education about two-thirds of what they will have to expend under the Act. Should we be right in inferring from these last accounts that they would still be disposed to apply only one-third to education? — I should say not. The new patrons have not yet taken the Act into consideration, and the views that may be expressed by them in connection with the expenditure will have an effect upon all the patrons. When we come to put the Act into operation, I have no doubt there will be a distinct proportion set apart for each branch. 5811. There has been no action of the body of trustees to show whether we can rely upon them using the full powers of the Act for education? — There has been no meeting on the subject. There has been a good deal of conversation among the patrons privately, and I know the feeling is that considerably more money should be spent upon education. 5812. Would there be any feeling against admitting children who paid fees to the same building ? — I would not venture to express an opinion upon that, because I have never heard the subject talked of. 5813. The Act is broad, I think, as regards the grade of education which might be given ? — It is. 5814. It is optional to the trustees whether it should be higher or elementary education? — Quite so. 5815. Have they at all taken into consideration the new Act of Par- liament, which provides elementary education out of the rates? — We have taken it into consideration to this extent, that we have not yet acted on our own Act until we should see the operation of the Education Act. Our own Act is so broad in its terms that it would give the patrons an opportunity of supplementing higher education to deserving scholars. 5816. The pensions are to go, are they not, to persons rather above the humbler grades of society ? — They must have been persons in good circumstances, and reduced by distress ; and the pensions are to supple- ment some little means they may have of their own. If they were obliged to go to the poor roll, we would not assist them in any circumstances, because we would be assisting the rates. In fact, we are prohibited by our rules from giving pensions to persons receiving parochial relief. 5817. And you wish to avoid applying the funds in such a way as to relieve the rates ? — There is no doubt of that ; and Lord Redesdale, when we obtained the Act, was very particular in inquiring upon that point. The Home Secretary also made it a subject of special inquiry, and said that if we intended to apply the funds in any way to relieve the rates he would not look at our provisional order. 5818. Did that remark of his apply to the education rate? — It re- ferred entirely to the education rate. 5819. The Chairman. — You gave him an assurance that the patrons had no such intention ? — The answer was to the effect that there was no intention to bestow the funds of the hospital in relieving the rates. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 507 5820. Was that merely a verbal assurance? — Yes ; it was at an inter- view we had with him. 5821. Mr. Parker. — Did it apply to both poor rate and education rate? — It was just with reference to the education rate. 5822. The Chairman. — There is a prevision in Blair's trust for boys of *a certain name having a preference. Are any of the boys of that name? — Mr. Hoggan. — We give a preference to the name of Hutcheson, other matters considered. Mr. Menzies. — We have four Hutchesons just now, but the spelling of the name is not quite the same. 5823. There is a preference for the names of Blair and Gemmell ? — Mr. Hoggan. — We do look at the names, and give them a certain preference. 5824. And no inconvenience is felt from the preference ? — None that I am aware of. 5825. This Act was passed as an unopposed bill ? — It was. 5826. There was no discussion with regard to it? — The whole of the clauses were published in the newspapers, and the bill elicited general satisfaction. 5827. I am speaking of Parliament. There was no opposition raised to its being publicly discussed, or its provisions being sifted before the committee to which it was referred ? — No. 5828. With regard to the proportion for education, do I understand the proportions stated in the bill were so settled with reference to what was considered the relative legal claims rather than the relative ex- pediency of the two separate destinations? — It was rather as a legal question. 5829. You considered yourselves bound by the old provisions to main- tain more nearly the relative proportions ? — Yes. 5830. But the question of altering these proportions was never dis- cussed by the patrons as matter of expediency ? — No. 5831. Are we to understand that the patrons consider these pensions to be a beneficial application of the funds ? — No doubt of that. 5832. But if the Legislature were to give the patrons the power of applying a larger proportion to education, would they object to have that discretionary power? — I think the patrons would object to any power that would take away more than half of the revenue towards education. 5833. Speaking from your knowledge of the patrons, you think that, on grounds of equity and expediency, more than half should not be given to education? — I do. 5834. With regard to the items of expenditure, there is upwards of £500 to the chamberlains. What are the duties of the chamberlains? — The general management of the affairs and properties of the hospital; collecting the revenues ; attending the meetings of the patrons ; keeping the minutes and account books, etc. of the institution. 5835. That is independent of the amount I see in regard to feuing and general business? — Yes. 5836. Is this a fixed annual sum? — It is 4 per cent, on the revenues collected. 5837. Is that the sum named here— £499, 5s. ?— Yes. 5838. Have you any other statement to make? — Mr. Hoggan. — It is possible that Dr. Buchanan or Dr. Kirkwood, being new patrons, may have something to say as to our future procedure under the Act of Parliament. Dr. Kirkwood. — I merely wish to say a word in explanation, in order to prevent misapprehension in reference to what Mr. Hoggan Patrons and Officials of Hutchesons Hospital, Glasgow. 508 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Patrons stated as to the future. Dr. Buchanan and I are two of the new patrons Officials of e ^ ecte( ^ un der this Act. We have had no experience of the past, and no Hutchesons connection with the past. As to the future, the patrons have not corn- Hospital, mitted themselves to anything whatever. They have had no meeting to lasgow. deterQ-jine or even to suggest anything to each other. All that has been done is an understanding that we should wait, not perhaps till we saw the new Education Act in operation, but till we saw the rules issued by the School Board, or perhaps the parties elected upon that Board. When we see these, we shall have a very good idea of what is likely to be the working of the Act in Glasgow, and I have no doubt we shall then settle with our- selves how to exercise the powers given us under the new Act. I was afraid it might be supposed by the Commissioners that we were to wait until we saw the operation of the Act, which might be a year or two ; but there has been no resolution of that kind, — simply an understanding that we had better wait, turn the matter over in our minds, and see what parties are elected to the School Board. 5839. And the steps these parties are taking to carry the Act into force ? — Dr. Kirkwood. — We will very soon see that without waiting for the working of what they do ; but we will not delay exercising our powers until the perhaps indefinite period necessary to observe the opera- tion of the new schools. Dr. Buchanan. — What I wished to say has sub- stantially been stated by Dr. Kirkwood. He correctly understands our position so far, though it is not exactly true that I have had no past ex- perience, because I was a patron of the institution for ten years before 1843. Of course that is a long time ago, and the state of the fund was so different at the date of 1843, and before then, from what it is now, that its position is altogether changed. The revenues are much greater, and the mode of dispensing them is also different in regard to the propor- tion of pensions, which is much greater now than it was in my time. I am extremely desirous it should be understood by this Commission that there was no foregone conclusion about delaying consideration of the powers we had got under this new Act; and there should be no idea entertained by this Commission that education is not likely to receive full consideration to the extent to which the Act allows us to con- sider it. 5840. But with regard to the special application of the funds, both Dr. Kirkwood and Dr. Buchanan wish to reserve their opinions, in the same way as Mr. Hoggan has stated the patrons generally desire to do, until they have full opportunity of considering the wants of the city? — Dr. Kirkwood. — So far as I am concerned, it is simply because I would be afraid that in speaking my own mind, which is made up, it might be sup- posed I was expressing also the opinions of the other patrons. Dr. Buchanan. — I am altogether in the same position, because I have a very decided opinion as to the way in which the funds should be disposed of. I have no hesitation in saying that one of the greatest wants of Glasgow is a middle-class or higher-class education. There is a very great popula- tion in Glasgow which would gladly avail themselves of a higher educa- tion, and seek to put their sons on the way to the University, if they could get such an education at a rate they could afford to pay. 5841. Mr. Parker. — And that class, you think, could afford to pay a certain moderate fee % — I judge of that from such a fact as this, that in connection with the Normal Seminary of the Free Church we instituted some years ago a middle-class school, and ever since we have always had applications for admission more numerous than we can accommodate. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 509 We have about 250 boys getting an education of that higher kind at a Patrons price within the reach of their parents ; that is to say, if they were going officials of to the High School or the Academy, they would have to pay an annual Hutohe>ons fee of something like between £14 and £16 a year, which is beyond the Hospital, reach of the class I am speaking of, whereas we afford an education of GJ as g° w - the same class for a fee varying from £2 to £4 or £5, according to the progress of the pupils. 5842. And the vacancies you have ? — They are all filled up. If the fee were a little lower, the demand would be still greater. There are con- tinually numbers of persons anxious to have their children introduced into this school, but they find the fee is above their ability. If it were a half less, not going beyond £2 a year, the demand would be very great. There is immense room for the extension of education in that direction. 5843. Do I understand you to say that since the time you were con- nected with Hutcheson's Hospital there has been a tendency rather to increase the pensions than the education? — I do not know the history of it, but I see the fact that there has been. 5844. A larger sum has been spent on pensions than on education ? — A great deal ; but the revenue is also much larger. 5845. There is no special reason for apprehending that that tendency will continue ? — I think there is a disposition on the part of the patrons to give full effect to the Act. Adjourned. APPENDIX. ANSWERS TO A CIRCULAR AND SCHEDULE ADDRESSED TO THE ADMINISTRATORS OF HOSPITAL FUNDS IN SCOTLAND. ENDOWED SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. SCHEDULE FOB ENDOWED HOSPITALS, COLLEGES. OE INSTITUTIONS (i.e. Endowed Institutions in which the Maintenance as well as the Education of Pupils is wholly or partly provided for). Name and Locality of Endowment or Mortification. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. Date of Foundation, and name of the Founder. 2. State the purpose of Foundation in terms of the Founder's Testament. Are there any subsequent Statutes or Ordinances bearing on the Foundation ? Where may copies of Testament and Statutes be obtained ? 3. State the Capital Sum left by the Founder, how the funds are now invested, and the present gross and net annual revenue. 4. What is the Constitution of the Trust ? Give the names of the Trustees and Administrators of the Trust. 5. Is the Hospital a branch of a larger Foundation embracing other objects ? G. How and by whom are the Governors or Administrators appointed ? 7. What control do the Governors directly exercise over the Hospital — its Staff, and Discipline, Instruction, etc. ? 8. Is the present application of the Trust in terms of the Founder's Will, or not ? If not, state the circumstances under which the bene- fits of the Foundation were diverted, and icier to printed docu- ments, if there are any. 2 K 514 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 9. Number of Foundationers receiving both Education and Main- tenance (including clothing), Boys ; Girls . Of whom are fatherless ; of whom , though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. Number of Foundationers who pay partially towards their Maintenance and Education. 11. Member of vacancies and number of applicants at last elec- tion. 1 2. Classify those elected, so as to show that they were embraced in the Founder's intention. 1 3. What are the ages at which Foundationers enter and leave the Hospital ? 1 4. Is there any condition of admission other than poverty, e. g. family name or connection, descent or place of birth, Church con- nection, or any other condition ? Is there an entrance examination, and of what kind is it ? 15. Is there a power of dismissing the Foundationers ? If so, in whom vested ? 16. Is any provision made for the Foundationers when they leave, and if so, of what kind is it ? 1 7. State the number of non-resident or out-door pupils in con- nection with the Foundation or Institution receiving Education gratuitously, but no part of their Maintenance. 1 8. The number of non-resident or out-door pupils paying both for their Education and their Maintenance. Those residing with their parents and not in receipt of any payments from the Foundation are to be included among those who pay for their Main- tenance. Please send with this Schedule a table of fees. 19. Do the Non-Foundationers who attend the School share in any of the privileges which belong to the Foundationers on leaving ? 20. Please to file with this Schedule a statement of account for the last financial year; and state how often and by whom the accounts are audited. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. How many Foundationers (i.e. pupils receiving both Education and Maintenance) reside in the Hospital building, or in dependen- cies of the Hospital — Boys ; Girls ? 2. "What provision is made for the lodging and boarding of those Foundationers who do not reside in the Hospital building or its dependencies ? 3. Do the Foundationers wear an Hospital uniform ? SCHEDULE. 515 4. What amount of freedom in receiving and paying visits is allowed to the pupils ; and what degree of liberty to pass beyond the limits of the grounds of the Institution ? What holidays are allowed ? 5. What punishments are inflicted ? Who determines the pun- ishment in each case ? Is a record of punishments kept ? 6. Have the Senior pupils any charge over the Junior ? If so, of what kind is the charge ? 7. What is the nature of the supervision over the pupils by day and by night ? 8. What are the dimensions of the dormitories, and the cubical space allowed for each pupil ? What is the average number accom- modated in each dormitory ? Has each pupil a separate bed ? 9. What are the amusements of the Foundationers, and are they left as free in respect of these amusements as pupils at other schools usually are ? What is the size of the play-ground ? 1 0. What provisions are made for cleanliness ? Are the sanitary arrangements generally good ? 11. What is the percentage of deaths per annum, taking the last ten years ? 12. Please to file with this Schedule (1) A twenty-four hours' time-table ; (2) The usual dietary scale for a week. III. Instruction. 1. From what class of society are the Foundationers chiefly drawn ? Classify those now on the Foundation so as to show the occupation of their fathers. 2. Are they specially instructed with reference to any particular occupations or professions ? 3. Please file with this Schedule an Instruction time-table show- ing how the instruction and training are provided for. N.B. — If industrial training is given to the Boys or Girls, specify, as a Postscript to the time-table, of what kind it is, and what means are taken to give it. 4. State the actual work done, in the various subjects of study, by the highest class in the School during their last session, referring to text-books to illustrate the amount and character of the work. 5. What is the nature of the religious instruction and training ? Please file with this a Sunday time-table. 6. What is the average number in a class, and what regulates 516 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. the promotion from a lower to a higher class ? Are prizes given ? How are they awarded ? 7. Is the building provided with suitable class-rooms ? State size of class-rooms and usual number of pupils in each. Is there a library ? 8. Who appoints the Governor or Head of the Hospital or Col- lege ? Does he conduct the instruction of any class, or are his duties confined to superintendence of the classes generally ? What is his tenure of office ? What control does he exercise over the Masters ? 9. File with this a list of the Teachers, with the salaries and emoluments of each, stating what portion, if any, is derived from fees. What is their tenure of office ? 1 0. Is any provision made for giving superannuation allowances to the Governor (Head Master) or other Teachers ? 11. If the instruction given has been reported on of late years by any person professionally connected with Education, and uncon- nected with the Institution, please quote the substance of the Ke- ports for the last two or three years. (SejMrate pai^cr.) 12. Have you any means of comparing the results of the instruc- tion in your Institution with those of the instruction given in other educational Institutions ? 1 3. Give the number who have gone to the Universities annually from your Institution in each of the last ten years ; record any cases of University distinction or success in competitive examina- tions achieved by old pupils during the same period. 14. If any record is kept of old pupils, a classified numerical statement of their occupations would be of value to the Commis- sioners. GENERAL. Have the Trustees or Governors, within the last few years, taken into consideration any change in the administration of the funds of the Hospital, or in the Education given, and with what result ? Signature, . Ad 'dress , Date, ANSWERS TO SCHEDULE. GEORGE HERIOT'S HOSPITAL. 4 George Heriot, his Hospitall,' Edinburgh. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1624. George Heriot, jeweller to King James vi. of Scotland. 2. The purpose of Foundation, in terms of the Founder's Testament, was '■for the mantinance, relief bringing up, and educatioune ofpuire fatherles bairnes, friemeii 's sones of the Towne of Edinburgh' * In the statutes subse- quently compiled by Dr. Balcanquhal, Cap. xin., the word fatherles is not introduced. The powers of the Governors were extended by the Act 6 and 7 Will. iv. (14th July 1836). In the History of the Hospital (copies of which were sent to all the Commissioners), the Testament and statutes will be found at pp. 307 et seq. ; and the Act 6 and 7 Will. iv. at p. 391. 3. The capital sum left by the Founder was £23,625, 10s. 3^d. This was increased by donations and bequests made to the Hospital by sundry individuals from time to time, amounting to nearly £8000. The funds were invested in lands which have mostly been feued, and a portion is at present temporarily invested in the Three per cent. Consols. The revenue of the past year, will be found in the < Abstract of Accounts/ filed here- with, page 1. 4. The Trust, by the Will and Testament before referred to, is vested in the ' Proveist, Baillies, Ministeris, and Counsell, and thair successouris for ewer] f who, in virtue of their office and appointment, are the sole admin- istrators. The names of the lay trustees vary every year by the results of the municipal elections. The number of Governors at present is 54 ; viz. 41 members of the Town Council, and 13 clerical members. 5. The Hospital itself is the original Foundation. Thirteen out-door schools have been planted throughout the city, for the education of the poorer classes ; and there have just been opened also evening classes for young artizans and others, in which are taught Writing, Bookkeeping, Arithmetic, Mathematics, English Literature, Architectural and Mechanical Drawing, French, German, Chemistry, and Natural Philosophy. 6. This query is answered by answer to query 4. 7. The whole body of Governors are divided into committees, viz. : The Property and Finance Committee ; The House and Apprentice Committee ; The Education and Schools Committee ; and The Law Committee. The duties of these committees are indicated by their names, but they all exercise a control in every department in their individual and corporate capacity. 8. The entire funds of the trust are not now exclusively applied in terms of the Founder's Will. The revenue of the Hospital, by the careful and ju- dicious management of the Trust exercised by the Governors, had so far outgrown the requirements of the original purposes of the Foundation, that the Governors, in 1836, applied for and obtained powers (by the Act al- ready referred to in the answer to query 2) to apply the surplus in the * History, p. 319. ' Last Will and Testament.' t Ibid. 518 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. erection and maintenance of out-door schools for the education of the chil- dren of the poorer classes of the city of Edinburgh. The numbers at present attending these schools is about 3500, who receive gratuitous education but not maintenance. 9. Boys, 180, of whom 46 are fatherless, and all, though not father- less, are children of decayed or necessitous families. 120 reside in the Hospital ; and 60 reside and receive partial maintenance at their own homes. They receive food during the day, and clothing, same as the resident boys. 10. None. 11. 27 vacancies, and 21 applicants. There are two elections in the year. 12. The income of the parents of those elected were as follows : — At and under £40 . . 4 „ 60 . . 8 70 . . 3 80 . . 1 91 . . 1 13. Enter not under 7, nor above 10. In some exceptional cases, non- resident boys may be admitted up to 12. Leave at 14. If ' hopeful scholars,' they may be allowed to remain a year or two longer. 14. The condition of admission is that they must be ' Childreine of Burgesses and Friemen of the said Brugh ; and amongest thes the kynsmen of the said umquhile George Heriott to be preferred all utheris indiffarentlie to be admittit without any respect. That no Burges's childreine be chosen if thair parentis be weill and sufficientlie able to manteyne thame.' * A preference is given to fatherless boys, the sons of burgesses. It was formerly con- sidered a sufficient test for admission to be able to read fairly a sentence in the Bible, but applicants, according to their age, have more recently been examined in accordance with the Standards of the Revised Code. 15. The power of dismissal lies in the Governors. 16. Those who are 'hopeful scholars,' and are desirous to go to Col- lege, get a bursary of £30, tenable, on good conduct, for four years. The others are bound out as apprentices to some trade or profession, receiving £10 a year, but not exceeding in all £50, and £5 additional at the close of their indenture, if they have served out their engagement faithfully. 17. There are none such. See answer to query 9, above. The scholars at the out-door schools receive only their education, books, etc., but not maintenance. 18. There are none. There are no fees charged either at the Hospital or out-door schools, except in the recently established evening classes. The fees in these are 5s. for one class, for the course of 6 months. If more classes are taken, 2s. 6d. additional for each. 19. No non-foundationers attend the Hospital schools. As to out- door schools, see answer to query 17. 20. A statement or abstract of accounts for the last financial year (1871) is filed herewith. The accounts, on the first week day of January, April, July, and October, are examined and checked by a committee of auditors (four of the Governors), and the whole books and accounts are examined, checked, and audited by a professional actuary (Mr. J. Mac- andrew, chartered accountant), who docquets and certifies their accuracy. During the present current year, since the statement was printed, an increase has been made to the salaries of the principal teachers of the Hospital and out-door schools. * History, p. 340. Statutes, cap. xiii. ' De Mectione Discipulorum.' GEORGE HERIOT'S HOSPITAL. 519 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 120. 2. 60 boys reside at home with their parents. They come to the Hos- pital every morning at 9, and remain until 5 p.m. They receive the same general privileges as the resident boys. No allowance is made to the parents for their partial maintenance. 3. Yes ; for description of it, see p. 213 of History of Heriofs Hospital. 4. All the boys are allowed to spend Saturday with their guardians from 9 a.m. to 8 or 8^ p.m. The House-Governor has also the dis- cretionary power of allowing, on the application of parents, any resident boy to go out on the Saturday morning and remain with his guardians until the Monday morning (with the exception of attending church along with the other boys and the Sabbath class at the Hospital), provided that the House-Governor is satisfied that such boy will be properly looked after in every respect by his guardians during that interval. There is an annual vacation of 7 weeks. There is also a recess of 10 days at Christmas, and there are several single- day holidays during the year. 5. For ordinary house or class-room offences each master punishes corporally, by poenas, or by confinement. The boys have a recognised right of appeal to the House-Governor before receiving any punishment from a master. Serious offences are reported to the House-Governor, whose duty it is to regulate generally the discipline of the Institution. A record is kept of all punishments for marked misconduct. 6. Seven of the senior boys act as monitors in the seven sleeping wards. It is their duty to report any irregularity that may take place in the absence of the wardsman in charge. 7. The boys are superintended during their play hours, and in their dormitories by wardsmen. A junior master is 'on duty' every evening. To him minor cases of irregularity are reported by the wardsmen. During the taking of meals one of the masters and the steward are in attendance. The House-Governor takes a general superintendence. 8. The average cubical extents in the dormitories to each boy is 580 feet. The average number of boys in each dormitory is 17. Each boy has a separate bed. 9. The amusements of the boys are what are usual in most schools. They are permitted to introduce and use any harmless games. Cricket, football, and i shinty ' have recently been most common. The size of the playground is about 5 acres. 10. Each boy has a tepid bath once a week. He has three clean day shirts and one clean night shirt. Tho sanitary arrangements are very good. 11. There have been 5 deaths during the last 10 years. The rate is, therefore, less than 3 per 1000. 12. (1.) Twenty-four Hours' Time-table, a.m. 6.30. Boys rise. „ 7.10 to 7.40. Preparation of Lessons — one Section at Drill. „ 7.45 to 8. Chapel Service, conducted by House-Governor. „ 8 to 9. Breakfast and play. „ 9 to 1 p.m. '^School. (Distribution of Bread-allowance at 11.) p.m. 1 to 2. Dinner and Play. „ 2 to 4. *School. „ 4 to 5. Some Sections under instruction. * Some of the Sections arc not in the class-room, but at play during a portion of this interval. 520 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. p.m. 5 to 7. Play. (Bread and Milk at 5.) „ 7 to 8. Preparation of Lessons. „ 8 to 8.20. Supper. „ 8.30 to 8.45. Chapel Service, conducted by House-Governor. „ 8.45. Division of Boys take tepid Bath ; the rest go to Dormitories. (2.) Dietary Table. Allowance for each Boy. Breakfast. Forenoon Allowance. Dinner. Afternoon Meal. Supper. Oatmeal ) Porridge ) Milk Bread Butcher-meat. Barley Pease Rice Potatoes 41 oz. H gill % oz. j 2i"oz. ( 5* oz. 5 g oz. 1 oz. 4 oz. 14 oz. 17t\oz. ljgill 5 oz. senior boys 2 j oz. junior boys 4§ oz. 1J gill On Sundays the Boys at present have, between the morning and after- noon services, a meal consisting of eggs, bread and butter, and coffee. See, for further particulars, p. 214 of History of Heriot's Hospital. III. Instruction. 1. Trades, Professions, etc. of Boys' Parents. Lodging-house Keepers 2 Letter Carriers 4 Brass and Iron Founders . 7 Bakers 4 Joiners and Cabinetmakers 13 Saddlers 2 Wine and Spirit Merchants 15 Agents 4 Tobacconists 2 Teacher 1 Sub-Editors 2 Clergyman 1 Watchmakers and Jewellers 10 Blacksmiths 2 Shop Owners 2 City Officers 3 Shop-Assistants 5 Waiter 1 Map Mounters 2 Glasscutter 1 Painters .... 5 Furniture Dealers 2 Tanners .... 3 Tinsmith 1 Cabmen .... 4 Confectioner 1 Bookbinders 2 Ironmonger 1 Clerks .... 5 Artist 1 Commercial Travellers 4 Artist's Colourmau 1 Tailors .... 15 Picture Dealer . 1 Butchers 5 Water Officer 1 Porters .... 5 Coach Trimmer 1 Masons .... 3 Coal Merchant 1 Shoemakers G Surgeon-Dentist 1 Musicians 3 Small Shopkeepers, etc. . 13 Printers 6 Contractors 2 Total . 177 Brushmaker 1 * The larger allowance of Bread is given during the interval (usually between May and the vacation) when Potatoes are not used. GEORGE HERIOT'S HOSPITAL, 521 2. Only in tho cases of senior boys whose parents may so request ; e.g. any boy purposing to study Medicine will be prepared for the Pre- liminary Examination in Arts. o. Time-table for Class Instruction. Amount of Hours each week in different subjects of Instruction. 1st (or Youngest) Section. — English (including Religious Instruction), 15 hours ; Arithmetic, 5 ; Writing, 3 ; Singing, 1 ; Drill, 1 ; Dancing, 1^ (for 6 months). 2d Section. — English (including Religious Instruction), 15 hours; Arithmetic, 5 ; Writing, 5 ; Singing, 1 ; Drill, 1 ; Dancing, 1£ (for 6 months). 3^ Section. — English (including Religious Instruction), 10 hours ; Arithmetic, 5 ; Writing, 5 ; Latin, 5 ; Singing, 1 ; Drill, 1 ; Dancing, 1 J (for 6 months). \th Section. — English (including Religious Instruction), 10 hours ; Arithmetic, 5 ; Writing, 5 ; Latin, 5 ; Singing, 1 ; Drill, 1. 5th Section. — English (including Religious Instruction and English Composition), 13 hours ; Arithmetic, 5 ; Writing, 5 ; Latin, 5 ; Singing, 1 ; Drill, 1. 6th Section. — English (including Religious Instruction and English Composition), 10 hours ; Arithmetic, 7 J ; Latin, 7\ ; Writing, 5 ; Drawing, 2 ; Singing, 1 ; Drill, 1 ; French, 2J. 7th Section. — English (including Religious Instruction and English Composition), 9-J hours ; Mathematics, 9 ; Classics, 9 ; French, 3 ; Writing, 2 J ; Drawing, 2. d. English. — The whole of Currie's English Grammar, revised ; Bain's English Grammar throughout (selected portions) ; Currie's Composition (selected portions) ; Collier's British History, the whole, revised ; Geography of the 4 Quarters, with Special Geography of the British Empire, revised. Classics. — JSneid, Book IX., the whole of it ; and Sallust's Cataline, 25 Chapters; Melvin's Latin Exercises, 1 to 100; Cyropaedia, Book I. Chap. 1-3. Arithmetic. — All the ordinary Rules. Euclid.— Books I. II. III. IV., Summary of V. VI. Algebra. — As far as Quadratic Equations (Kelland's Elements). French. — La Henriade, Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme ; French Com- position. 5. All the boys receive on an average half an hour's daily instruction in the Bible and Shorter Catechism. On Sunday, the boys, divided into 5 sections, are taught by the House-Governor and Masters between 9.30 and 10.30 a.m. The House-Governor takes the outgoing boys by them- selves ; the remaining boys are taught by four of the Masters ; in the two youngest Sections, New Testament History and Biography are taught ; in the two highest Divisions, Old Testament History and Biography. 6. The average number in a class is about 25. Promotion is regu- lated by proficiency. Prizes are awarded partly as the results of the class-makings during the session, and partly by competitive examination. 7. The class-rooms, with one exception, are quite suitable. The usual number in each is about 25. The size of the different rooms is as under : — Writing Room, 36.6 x 22.0 1st English Room, 36.9x22.3 Classical do. 36.0x22.0 2d Do. do. 28.0x15.6 Mathematical do. 25.9 x25.6 3d Do. do. 26.6 x20.0 ( The average culn- ) cal Contents to ) each boy is 274 ( feet. 522 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. There is an excellent Library, containing about 4000 volumes. The boys are also provided with the daily papers and a variety of weekly and monthly serials. 8. The Governors appoint the House-Governor or Head Master, who is also Inspector of the Heriot Foundation Schools. The present House- Governor visits and reports upon each of the 13 Foundation Schools once a month, takes a general superintendence of the domestic and educational arrangements of the Hospital, teaches English Grammar and Composition to the two highest sections, and Greek to the 4 hopeful scholars.' He holds office during the pleasure of the Governors. All the Masters are elected by the Governors, and hold office during their pleasure ; the House-Governor is allowed to select for election the two Junior Masters. The general control of the Masters is vested in the House-Governor. 9. The Salaries of the Masters are as under : — Dr. Bedford, House-Governor, £500, with free bouse, coals, and gas. Mr. Bidpath, Classical Master, £250, with £10 for private reading with Hospital Bursars in Classics. Mr. Smith, Mathematical Master, £230 (to be increased by an annual increment of £5 until it become £250), with £10 for reading with Hospital Bursars in Mathematics. Mr. Wilson, English Master, £220 (to be increased by an annual increment of £5 until it become £250). Mr. D. F. Lowe, French Master, and 2d English Master, £140, with board and lodging in the Hospital. Mr. Brown, Junior English Master, £100. Mr. Watson, Writing Master, £140. Mr. Simson, Drawing Master, £52, 10s. Mr. Hunter, Singing Master, £35. Mr. G. Lowe, Dancing Master, £35. No portion of the above Salaries is derived from Fees. All the Masters hold office during the pleasure of the Governors. 10. A scheme whereby the House-Governor and all the other officials of the Hospital are required to insure their lives for certain specified sums payable at death or sixty (the Governors contributing £5 per cent, on the official income towards the payment of the premium) is at present under revision. 11. See pp. 195-7 in History of Heriot 's Hospital. 12. See opinions of Professional Examiners under Question 11, and position taken by boys at University Local Examinations referred to under Question 13. 13. On p. 378 of the History of Heriots Hospital is given a list of the House Bursars of the Institution from 1810 to 1872. During the last 10 years a Bursary has been awarded to 1 out of about 10 out- going boys. These Bursaries have generally been awarded to boys in their 14th year, who were expected to enter College in the first session thereafter. Within the last two or three years the Governors have made an alteration in their House Bursary Regulations, from a persuasion that the boys would derive more advantage from the Literary Classes at a riper age, and also with a view to the employment of the Bursary allowances in a variety of professional occupations. Some of the Hospital Bursars attend the Extra-mural instead of the University Classes. Some of the old boys who left the Hospital without obtaining a Bursary have afterwards attended classes at the University without any aid from the Institution : of these there is no exact record. The actual attendance GEORGE HERIOT'S HOSPITAL. 523 of Heriot House Bursars at the University Classes during the last 10 years has been as under:— In 1862, 9 ; 1863, 8 ; 1864, 18 ; 1865, 10 ; 1866, 11 ; 1867,7; 1868,7; 1869,11; 1870,6; 1871, 12; 1872, 8. The average attendance therefore for the last 10 years has been 8*5 per annum. During the same interval the following boys have received Degrees and Diplomas : — Allan Connel, M.A., Jas. Lyon, M.A., Rev. Matthew Galbraith, M.A., Rev. John Wardrop, M.A., Rev. William Dunnett, M.A., Robert Lawson Tait, L.R.C.S., George Waugh, M.B., CM., John Masterton, M.D., L.R.C.P. and S. The boys have also been sent at different times to the University Local Examinations. In 1867 ten boys were entered, one for the Senior Certifi- cate and the others for the Junior Certificate. The candidate for the Senior Certificate obtained it in the 1st Division, and the others, with one exception, obtained the Junior Certificate, three in the 1st Division and five in the 2d Division. The number of Honour-marks obtained amongst the whole of them was 11. In 1868 ten boys were again entered, four for the Senior and six for the Junior Certificates. They all obtained the Certifi- cates for which they were examined ; two boys obtained Senior Certificates in the 1st Division, and two in the 2d Division; three obtained Junior Certificates in the 1st Division, and three in the 2d Division. The number of Honour-marks obtained amongst the whole of them was 14. The Head Master and the Education Committee being under the impres- sion that this kind of examination had the effect of narrowing the course of instruction, as well as of introducing an unhealthy stimulus among the boys, no candidates were sent up in the following year ; but in 1870 four candidates were allowed to present themselves, with the following result : — Three passed in the 1st Division of Class A, and one in the 2d Division of Class A, the total number of Honour-marks among them being 10. 14. See List of Persons educated in Heriot's Hospital since beginning of present century, pp. 411-24, in History of Heriot's Hospital. General. Yes. For result see p. 197-203 of History of Heriot's Hospital, as well as copy of proposed Provisional Order and relative papers already sent to the Secretary of the Commission. Wm. Forrester, Treasurer, 7, Royal Exchange. Fred. W. Bedford, House- Governor, Heriot's Hospital. 524 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. THE HOSPITAL OR BOARDING -HOUSE IS HOME LODGE, VIEWFORTII ; THE COLLEGE SCHOOL FOR BOYS IS SITUATED AT ARCHIBALD PLACE, LAURISTON ; AND THE ONE FOR YOUNG LADIES AT GEORGE SQUARE. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. Hospital opened 1741. George Watson, merchant in Edinburgh. 2. The purpose of the foundation is stated in the Founder's Testament or Will to be, to raise a new Hospital for entertaining and educating of the male children and grandchildren of decayed merchants in Edinburgh. Statutes were composed by Mr. Watson's Trustees in 1724, and amended in 1755, by which they gave a preference to the children or grandchildren of members of the Edinburgh Merchant Company, Burgesses and Guild Brethren of Edinburgh, or Ministers of the Old Church of Edinburgh, those of the name of Watson or Davidson being preferred in the first place. By an Act of Parliament obtained in 1852, the Governors were authorized to elect and receive into the Hospital such number of non- resident day scholars as the income or revenue of the Hospital should from time to time prove sufficient for. In 1870 a Provisional Order was, on the application of the Governors, obtained from Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State, under authority of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, by which the Governors were, inter alia, empowered to convert the Hospital into a great Day School, and to board out a portion of the Foundationers, and maintain the others in boarding-houses, and to establish Day Schools for girls. Copies of the Statutes of the Trustees, the Day Scholars Act of 1852, and the Provisional Order of 1870, may be obtained from the Secretary and Solicitor of the Governors, Mr. Alexander Kirk Mackie, S.S.C., 57 Hanover Street, Edinburgh. 3. The sum originally left by the Founder was £12,000 sterling. The funds, according to the last published statement sent herewith, amounted to £199,242, Is. 6d. The funds are now principally invested in land and house property. The gross revenue, including school fees, conform to the above statement, was £11,418, 9s. 6 6 d., and the net revenue of the foundation, £7,127, 7s. 9d. 4. Reference is made to answer to question No. 2 as to the constitu- tion of the trust. The management is in the Master, twelve Assistants, and (Honorary) Treasurer of the Company of Merchants of the city of Edinburgh, five members of the Town Council of Edinburgh, and one of the Ministers of Edinburgh, — in all, 20. For names of present Governors, see page 529 hereof. 5. No. 6. The Master, twelve Assistants, and Treasurer of the Merchant Company, are elected annually by the Merchant Company (which Company is incorporated by Royal Charter and Act of Parliament). The five repre- sentatives from the Town Council are also elected annually by that body, and the Minister of Edinburgh is elected by the general body of Governors. 7. The Governors, inter alia, manage the estate of the Hospital, and GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 525 settle and direct the government of the Hospital and whole affairs relat- ing thereto, and fix from time to time the age for election of Foundation- ers, and that at which they may be required to leave. The Governors elect the head masters of the Day Schools, who hold their offices during the pleasure of the Governors, and these head masters are responsible for the efficient working of the schools. The Governors also judge as to the time and way of carrying out the various powers conferred upon them by the Provisional Order above mentioned, in regard to bursaries, scholar- ships, etc., and generally in regard to the management of the Day Schools. 8. The present application of the funds is not altogether in terms of the Founder's Will, but the change has been made under the authority of Parliament. Reference is made to answer to question No. 2. 9. Boys, 55, of whom 27 are fatherless; of whom 20, though not father- less, are children of decayed or necessitous families, this being a neces- sary qualification. Thirteen have been elected entirely owing to merit, as tested by competitive examination in terms of the Provisional Order, and without reference to their circumstances. 10. None. 11. Number of vacancies, 3. Number of applicants, 13. 12. Two of the above three vacancies were filled up by sons of members of the Merchant Company who had been in extensive business, but had died in early life, leaving widows and families in straitened circumstances. The other was filled up by a grandson of a member of the Merchant Company, whose father had been a teller in a bank, but had lost his situ- ation, and in consequence was unable to provide suitably for his family. 13. Foundationers by election require to be not under 9 nor above 14 years of age as at 1st October of the year in which they are elected ; and they require to leave at the end of the half-session in which they attain 15 complete, unless they obtain a certificate of high merit from the Head Master, when they remain a year longer. Those elected by merit are at corresponding ages. 14. The Governors are required to be 4 fully satisfied that they (the boys proposed to be elected) are truly objects of the charity.' Chap. xiv. Statute. Reference is made to answer to question No. 2. By section 9 of the Provisional Order, ' all applicants for admission to the Foundation or the Day Schools shall pass an entrance examination suitable to the age of each applicant, and satisfactory to the Governors ; ' and in select- ing those to be admitted, regard is paid to the merits and attainments of each as tested by the examination. 15. By section 5 of the Provisional Order, the Governors have power to decline to admit any child ' whose admission would in their opinion be prejudicial to the interests of the other children,' and 4 to remove from the Foundation any of the present or future Foundationers whose con- tinued connection therewith would in their opinion have a like effect.' 16. On leaving, each Foundationer is allowed clothes to the value of £7. Each ordinary Foundationer also gets, on being bound apprentice to a trade or business, £10 a year for five years, and a bounty of £50 when he reaches 25 years of age complete, and is about to start business in Edinburgh or suburbs. 17. In the boys' school, 24 ; in the girls' school, 13. 18. In boys' school, 1 105 ; in girls' school, 587. For table of fees, see p. 528. 19. No. 20. A statement of the last published account will be found on refer- ence to pages G4-70 of the Merchant Company Annual Report, herewith sent. The accounts are quarterly prepared by the Accountant of the 526 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Hospital, Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., audited by an Audit Committee appointed by the Governors, and laid before the Governors at their quarterly meetings for their approval. There is also an annual account made out by the Accountant and audited by the Audit Committee, and thereafter it is laid before the Governors for approval. Furthermore, with the view of securing every publicity, an abstract of the accounts is printed annually for the Governors and every member of the Merchant Company, and any one who may wish to see it. The accounts for the financial year just closed will be sent Avhen printed, if desired.* II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 17. 2. The Foundationers who are boarded with their parents receive an allowance of £21 a year ; those boarded with strangers, £28 a year. These allowances do not include clothing and medical attendance, which are provided by the Governors. 3. No. 4. A large discretion is given to the Matron to grant liberty as in private families. Foundationers with friends in town can remain with them from Saturday morning till Monday morning. The principal holidays are eight- clays at Christmas, two months in autumn, and a week in the end of April. 5. (1) Day Schools. — Boys. In extreme cases, corporal punishment is inflicted by the Master, and such cases are reported to the Head Master. In other cases, pcenas and detention in class-room. Corporal punishments are extremely rare, and are discountenanced by the Governors. Girls. The punishments are principally determined by the Master of each class, by making the pupils lose class places or marks. Any case to be treated differently is reported to the Head Master, who has found it to be suf- ficient, as yet, simply to write clown the name in a book kept for the purpose. (2) Boarding-house. — The punishments necessary are of a trifling nature. G. None. 7. The Foundationers attend the Day School during the day, and those not t boarded out are in the Boarding-house by night, under the care of the Matron and a resident Master. 8. Rooms — No. 1. 24-0 X 17-0 X 13-3 high, with 7 beds. 797 cubic feet to each pupil. 2. 17-0 X 12-6 X 13*3 „ „ 3 „ 957 „ „ 3. 16-6 X 15-6 X 13-3 „ „ 5 „ 698 „ „ 4. 9-0 X 8-6 X 12-0 „ „ 2 „ 481 „ „ Each pupil has a separate bed. 9. Foundationers are as free during their own amusements as pupils at other schools generally are. The ground around the house is fully an acre in extent, and is within a short distance of Bruntsfield Links. There is also a cricket park. 10. The boys have ' baths ' regularly in the boarding-house. The Medical Officer of Health for the city, Dr. Littlejohn, visits the day schools at least once in each quarter to ascertain their sanitary condition, and re- port to the Governors any suggestions he has to make ; and the Medical Officer of the Hospital reports twice a year to the Governors as to the condition of the boarding-house. (Recent reports can be sent if wished.) 11. There have only been about four deaths in all among the Founda- tioners for the last ten years. 12. See p. 531, etc. * See p. 539. GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 527 [II. [NSTRUCTION. 1. The ordinary Foundationers are nearly all of the middle class, being chiefly sons and grandsons of Merchant Burgesses and Guild Brethren. 2. In Girls' School, no. In Boys' School, pupils after the age of 12 are placed on the commercial or classical side of the school, according to their mental bent. 3. See pp. 531-3G. 4. See p. 536. 5. The Foundationers at boarding-house attend Church twice on Sun- day, and receive religious instruction from the resident Master in the evening. In the schools the Bible is taught without sectarianism or formula. 6. In Boys' School, from 35 to 40 pupils in a class. Pupils are pro- moted according to merit, tested by examination given by Head Master. Prizes are given at close of session, decided by class marks and written examinations. In Girls' School, average number in class, 40. Promotion depends upon the aggregate value of work, oral and written, in all the subjects of study. Prizes are awarded for the work done in each subject of study, and are decided by class places and written examinations quarterly. 7. Boys' School. The building is provided with large and well- venti- lated class-rooms. There are from 35 to 40 pupils in each class-room. There is a library for the Masters. Girls' School. The class-rooms are suitable. They vary in size, but 20 or 22 x 16 or 18 feet will give the usual dimensions ; about 40 pupils in each. Largest class-room, 27 x 27 feet. In these there are sometimes two classes for singing, etc. There is not a library as yet. 8. The Head Masters are appointed by and hold office at the pleasure of the Governors, and are responsible for the efficient working of their schools. All the Teachers and other persons under the Head Masters are appointed by and hold their offices under the control and at the pleasure of the Head Masters, but their salaries are fixed and paid by the Governors. The time of the Head Masters is fully taken up in superin- tendence of the classes. 9. A list of the Teachers in each of the boys and girls' schools, with their salaries, is sent herewith. No portion of their salaries is derived directly from fees. They hold their offices during the pleasure of the Head Masters. See p. 536, etc. 10. No. 11. See p. 538. 12. The pupils from these schools compete annually with pupils from the other Merchant Company Schools. 13. Boys' School. During the 10 years previous to the reform of the Hospital in 1870, not above half a dozen pupils went to the University. At the opening of the present session of the University, eleven pupils from this school have matriculated. It is expocted that in a short time, under the new system of schools, there will be a much larger attendance at the University.* 14. None. * The Governors of this Hospital and the Governors of Daniel Stewart's Hospital have endowed a chair in the Edinburgh University, the annual cost of which is £524, representing, at 4 per cent., a capital sum of £13,100. 528 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. General. The Governors have, in connection with the Directors of the other Mer- chant Company Hospitals, been the leaders in Hospital reform. They suggested, and at large expense got carried through, the c Endowed Insti- tutions (Scotland) Act, 1869,' and they subsequently obtained Provisional Orders, by which they have been enabled to make vast changes in Hospital management, as will be seen by the statement* of results annexed to the schedule for George Watson's Hospital and College Schools. The Mer- chant Company Corporations have, with one exception, been the only institutions that have taken advantage of the above Act, — the one excep- tion being ' The Bathgate Academy,' which is connected with one of the estates belonging to the Merchant Company Corporations. The Pro- visional Orders so applied for and obtained, met with the hearty approval of Mr. Forster, the Home Secretary (Mr. Bruce), and the Lord Advocate. These Provisional Orders were founded mainly upon the reports of the Education Commissioners. The Governors have but one desire, namely, to administer the funds of the Founder with the greatest practical advan- tage to the cause of education. They court every inquiry into their management of the Schools and Corporations, and will give careful attention to recommendations of Education Commissioners and leading educationalists. The change has been a great success.f A. Kirk Mackie, S.S.C., Secretary. 22d November 1872. Table of Fees each Quarter at George Watson's College Schools. 1. Boys' School Elementary Department, .... ICs. per Quarter. Junior Department, Lower Division, . . . 15s. ,, Do. do., Upper do., . . . £l ,, Senior do., ..... £1, 5s. ,, Do. do., Advanced, . . . £1, 10s. ,, 2. Girh' School. Elementary Department, . . . .12s. 6d. per Quarter. Junior Department, Lower Division, . . . £1, Is. ,, Do. do., Upper do., . . . £1, Us. Gd. ,, Senior do., . . . . . £2 ,, Do. do., Advanced, . . £2, 10s. „ Foundationers residing at Home Lodge.— Twenty-four Hours' Time-Table, 7 a.m. to 7.45 a.m. Rise and Dress. 7.45 „ 8 Prayers. 8 ,, 8.30 Breakfast. 8.30 „ 9 Going to school. 9 ,,3 P.M. At school. 3.45 p.m. ,, 4.15 Dinner. 4.15 „ C At play. G ,,7.35 Preparation of Lessons. 7.35 ,, 9 Supper, Private Reading or Indoor Amusements. 9 Prayers; Bed. * See Statement annexed, p. 538. t Special reference is made to page 12 of the prospectus of the Edinburgh Merchant Company Schools for Session 1872-73, sent herewith. GEORGE WATSON S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 529 Foundationers residing at Home Lodge. — Table of Week's Dietary. Sunday, . . Monday, . . Tuesday, . . Wednesday, . Thursday, . Friday, . . Saturday, Breakfast. Porridge and Milk. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Dinner. Mutton Pie and Bread. Pea-soup and Roast Meat, Bread and Potatoes. Rice-soup and Boiled Mutton, Bread and Potatoes. Rice-soup and Minced Collops, Bread and Potatoes. Salt Beef, Bread, and Potatoes. Roast Beef, Bread and Potatoes. Cold Roast, Pudding, Bread and Potatoes. Supper. Tea, Bread, But- ter, and Milk. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. List of Governors for 1872-73. John Clapperton, Esq., 371, High Street, Master of the Merchant Company, Assistants of the Merchant Company. Messrs. Thomas Knox, 15, Hanover Street. ,, James Lewis, 177, Canongate. ,, John Purdie, 83, Princes Street. ,, Stephen Adam, 131, Constitution Street, Leith. ,, John S. Shiels, Constitution Street, Leith. ,, Adam Beattie, 33, Chalmers Street. „ David Dickson, 10, South St. Andrew Street. ,, Josiah Livingston, 7, Roxburgh Place. ,, Charles Blair, 67, Gilinore Place. ,, "William Hamilton, 100, George Street. ,, Robert Gordon, Heriot Bridge. ,, Alexander Go wans, 25, George Street. Treasurer of the Merchant Company. Robert Bryson, Esq., GG, Princes Street. Minister of New Greyfriars Church. Rev. William Robertson, D.D., 29, Albany Street. Elected by the Magistrates and Town Council. Bailie Marshall, 39, Potterrow. Bailie Cousin, Royal Exchange. Bailie WlLSON, Meuse Lane. Treasurer James Colston, 80, Rose Street (Treasurer for City of Edinburgh). Councillor Thomas Rowatt, Lothian Road. 2 L ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Treasurer. Mr. Robert Walker, 12, Bank Street. Secretary, Mr. A. Kirk Mackie, S.S.C Architect. Mr. David Macgibbon, George Street. Accountant. Mr. J. M. Macandrew, C.A., York Place. Surgeon. Mr. Benjamin Bell, F.R.C.S., 8, Shandwick Place. Land Adviser. Mr. Adam Curror, The Lee, Edinburgh. Head Masters George Watson's College Schools. Mr. George Ogilvie, LL.D. (Boys). Mr. A. Thomson (Girls). Time -Table. GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 531 GEORGE WATSON'S COLLEGE SCHOOLS. (BOY'S.) TIME-TABLE.— Lower Senior.— Session 1872-73. 9-9.30 9.30-11 11-12 12-12.30 1-2 2-3 3-4 Mon. Scripture English Branches Latin Writing French Arithm. Drawing Tues. Do. Do. Do. Do. Arithmetic Do. Dancing Wed. Do. Do. Do. Do. French Do. Drawing Thur. Do. Do. Do. Do. Arithmetic Do. Dancing Fjji. Do. Do. Do. Do. French Do. Drawing TIME-TABLE.— Junior Classes. 9-9.30 9.30-10.30 10.30-11.30 11.30-12.15 12.45-1.15 1.15-2 2-, 3 Mon. Scripture English Arithmetic Latin Writing Arithmetic Englij h Tues. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do Wed. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do Thur. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do Fri. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do Singing Lessons once a week in the Lower Senior and Junior Classes. In the Junior Drawing one hour a week. TIME-TABLE.— Elementary. 9-9.30 9.30-10.30 10.30-11 11-12 12.45-1.15 1.15-2 Mon. Script. Reading Slate -writ. Arithmetic Reading, etc. Mental Arithmetic and Geography Slate-writing Tues. Do. Do. Ment. Ar. Do. Do. Wed. Tiiur. Do. Do. Do. Do. Slate-writ. Ment. Ar. Do. Do. Do. Do. Mental Arithmetic and Geography Slate -writing Fri. Do. Do. SI ate- writ. Do. Do. Reading, etc. In the Elementary Classes Singing and Drawing twice or thrice a week, in place of some of above. 532 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. GEORGE WATSON'S TIME-TABLE. — Senior 9-10 10-11 11-12 12-12.30 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, English Classics English Classics English Classics French Classics French Classics Mathematics Do. Do. Tin DO. Do. Mathematics Do. Do. Tin. DO. Do. Classical Side. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Classics French Classics French Classics English Classics English Classics English Mathematics Do. Do. Do. Do. Mathematics Do. Do. Tin Do. Do. t-H 1— I 1— 1 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Mathematics French Mathematics French Mathematics Mathematics English Mathematics English Mathematics Classics Do. Do. DO. Do. Writing Do. Do. Tin DO. Do. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, French English French English French Mathematics Do. Do. Tin Do. Do. Classics Do. Do. Tin DO. Do. Writing Do. Do. Tin Do. Do. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, French Mathematics French Mathematics French Classics Do. Do. "pv Do. Do. English Do. Do. Do. Do. English Do. Do. Tin Do. Do. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, English Writing English Writing English French Mathematics French Mathematics French Mathematics Do. Do. Do. Do. Mathematics Do. Do. Do. Do. w Q m < Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, English Writing English Writing English French English French English French Mathematics Do. Do. Do. Do. Mathematics Do. Do. Do. Do. « w M J-S o O Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Writing English Writing English Writing Mathematics Do. Do. Do. Do. English French English French English English French English French English Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Writing Mathematics Writing Mathematics Writing English Mathematics English Mathematics English French English French English French French English French English French GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 533 COLLEGE SCHOOLS (Boys). Classes. — Session 1872-73. Classical Side. j 1-2 2-3 Alternated 3-4 Veeks. 3-4 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Classics Do. Do. Tin JJO. Science Classics English Classics jimgiisn Classics Dancing Drawing Dancing Drawing Dancing Drawing > Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Friday, Writing English Writing IT* r\ rrl 1 oil JliUgllSU Classics Classics Do. Do. JJO. Science Dancing- Drawing Dancing Drawing Dancing Drawing Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., IHURSDAY, Friday, English Do. Do. Tin JJO. Do. Classics Mathematics Classics Mathematics Classics Dancing Drawing Dancing Drawing Dancing Drawing Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Mathematics Classics Mathematics Classics Mathematics English Science English Tin JJO. Do. Drawing Gymnastics Drawing Drawing Gymnastics t— 5 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Mathematics Do. Do. Tin JJO. Do. Writing Classics Writing Classics Writing Drawing Gymnastics Drawing Drawing Gymnastics w Q < M w 9 S o O > i— i Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., 1 hursday, Friday, German French English German Science Book-keepg. English German j^ngiisn German Drawing Drawing Gymnastics Drawing Gymnastics Drawing t-H Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, English F rench English Book-keepg. German Writing German Mathematics German Science Drawing Drawing Gymnastics Drawing Gymnastics Drawing 1— ( Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, German Mathematics German Mathematics Science French Drawing English Drawing German Dancing Dancing Dancing t-i Monday, Tuesday, Wednesd., Thursday, Friday, Mathematics German Mathematics German English Drawing Mathematics Mathematics Do. Drawing Dancing Dancing Dancing 534 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. GEORGE WATSON'S COLLEGE TIME-TABLE. Senior Classes. Hour. I. II. III. IV. V. VI. 9 German Drawing Singing Singing Drawing — English 10 Singing Singing German Drawing- English Drawing M 11 Arithmetic German Writing English French Sewing Q 12 Dancing Arithmetic English Dancing Writing Arithmetic O M 1 Writing English Arithmetic Arithmetic Dancing Dancing 2 English Writing Dancing French Arithmetic Writing 9 Drawing French Drawing • fee wing Singing English >> 10 French Dictation Writing Writing English Singing < 1 11 Arithmetic Writing French rmgusn Fr. Dicta. Sewing w E 12 Sewing Arithmetic jiingiisn Dictation Writing Arithmetic EH 1 Writing English Arithmetic Arithmetic Sewing French 2 English Dancing Sewing Fr. Dicta. Arithmetic Writing 9 German Fr. Dicta. Singing Singing Sewing English i 10 Fr. Dicta. Sewing German VY nting English Dictation 11 Arithmetic German Writing English French Sewing 1 12 Sewing Arithmetic English Dictation Writing Arithmetic 1 Writing English Arithmetic Arithmetic Dictation Fr. Dicta. 2 English Writing Dancing French Arithmetic Writing 9 Drawing French Drawing Sewing Singing English 10 Singing Singing Writing Drawing English Drawing I 11 Arithmetic Writing French English Sewing Writing ci I 12 Dancing Arithmetic English Dancing Writing Arithmetic 55 1 Writing English Arithmetic Arithmetic Dancing Dancing 2 English Dancing Sewing Writing Arithmetic French 9 German Drawing Dictation Dictation Drawing English 10 French Sewing German Writing English Singing i i 11 Arithmetic German Writing English French Sewing 3 12 Dictation Arithmetic English Dictation Writing Arithmetic m 1 Writing English Arithmetic Arithmetic Sewing Dictation 2 English Writing Dictation French Arithmetic Writing English includes English Literature, Grammar, Geography, History, in Senior Classes. Arithmetic includes Mathematics in Classes I. and II. Writing includes Bookkeeping in Classes I., II., and III. Writing includes Ornamental Writing in Classes I. to VI. inclusive. Dictation includes English and French in Senior Classes. GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 535 SCHOOLS, GEORGE SQUARE. (GIRLS.) TIME-TABLE. Junior Classes. Hour. I. II. in. IV. Y. VI V J.. 9 French Arithmetic English Arithmetic Writing English 10 Arithmetic French Arithmetic English English Sewing < 11 English English Sewing Writing Arithmetic Arithmetic p 525 0 12 Sewing English Writing English French Writing 1 English Writing French Sewing Sewing English 0 Writing Sewing Hinglisn Dictation English French 9 Singing Arithmetic English Arithmetic Writing English 10 Arithmetic Singing Arithmetic English English Sewing p 11 English English Sewing Writing Arithmetic Arithmetic on W 12 Dancing English Dancing- English Sewing Writing 1 English Writing Writing Dancing Dancing English Writing Dancing English French English Singing 9 French Arithmetic English Arithmetic Writing English 10 Arithmetic French Singing Singing English French p w 11 English English Sewing Writing Arithmetic Arithmetic S5 12 Sewing English Writing English French Writing 1 English Writing French Sewing Singing English 2 Writing Dictation English Dictation English Dancing 9 Singing Arithmetic English Arithmetic Writing English 10 Arithmetic Sewing Arithmetic English English Sewing **< P CO 11 English English Sewing Writing Arithmetic Arithmetic M £> 12 Sewing English Writing English Dictation Writing a Eh 1 English Writing Dictation French Sewing English 2 Writing Dancing English Sewing English Singing 9 French Arithmetic Singing Singing Writing English «« 10 Arithmetic Singing Arithmetic English English Sewing 11 English English Sewing Writing Arithmetic Arithmetic p « 12 Dancing English Dancing English French Writing 1 English Writing French Dancing Dancing English 2 Writing Sewing English Sewing English Dancing English includes Geography, History, Grammar, in Junior Classes. 536 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. BOYS' SCHOOL. Actual Work done by Highest Classes in Session 1871-72. Highest Classical. — 1. Latin. — Horace, Livy, Cicero, Latin Prose Composition, Beverly's Ex-Ancient Geography and Antiquities. „ 2. Greek. — Smith's InitiaGra3ca,Xenophon, Homer. ,, ,, 3. English Branches, including Analysis, Com- position, History, and Literature. ,, 4. Mathematical Do. — Euclid I.-VL, Algebra, Trigonometry, Natural Science. ,, 5. French. — Grammar, Moliere, French Com- position. Highest Commercial. — Same as Highest Classical, with additional French, German, and Bookkeeping, in place of Latin and Greek. GIRLS' SCHOOL. Actual Work done by Class I. during Session 1871-72. Arithmetic. — First Four Rules, Compound Rules (money), Vulgar Frac- tions, Proportion and some of its applications. Geometry. — First steps as contained in the first three Sections of Mr. Wilson of Rugby's Elementary Geometry. Algebra. — To the end of Multiplication. Bookkeeping. — Single Entry ; Day, Invoice, Cash and Bill Books finished, and entering these into the Ledger. English. — Bible — Genesis. History — Greece, to the Battle of Marathon ; also the Mythology, 120 pages. English Literature to the time of Dr. Samuel Johnson, 93 pages; Pryde's Literature; Parsing and Analysis of Sentences; Derivation of Words from Latin and Greek. Composition — First and Second Chapters of Pryde's Composition, 80 pages ; Macbeth. Geography — Europe, N. America, S. America, France, Ancient Greece ; also all the Physical and Mathematical Geography, as given in Mackay's Elements. German. — Grammar ; Dr. Aue's Elementary German Grammar, paragraphs 1-83, Exercises I.-XII. ; Reading — Christoph von Schmidt's Kurze Erzalungen, No. 1-24. French. — French Reader, first 75 pages ; Grammar whole. Latin. — Declension of Nouns, Adjectives, Numerals, Pronouns, Active Voices of Four Conjugations ; Chambers' Elementary Latin Exercises to the end of the Five Declensions: Caesar, Book L, 1-7 chapter. Writing. — Plain, Ornamental, Illuminated. Music. — Theory and Singing twice a week, and Piano once a week. BOYS' SCHOOL. List of Masters and Salaries.— Session 1872-73. The Head Master (George Ogilvie, LL.D.) has a salary of £400, and five shillings for each boy, other than a Foundationer, at school. Smior Department. Mr. Thomas A. Stewart, M.A., Classics £300 „ Francis Sellar, M.A., ,, 170 ,, Andrew M'Lellan, M.A., English . . . . . 220 ,, William Calder, ,, 190 ,, James Blyth, M.A., Mathematics 220 „ Matthew Wilson, M.A., ,, 130 ,, George Gloag, ,, 110 „ V. Y. Ondet, B.A., B.S.C., French 220 ,, John Robson (First), B. A., French and German . . 220 ,, Charles F. Fischart, German 80 ,, Robert Adamson, M.A., Assistant 80 GEOKGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 537 Sections (Senior). Mr. John Richardson (First), B.A £145 ,, James L. Robertson, M.A 130 ,, James Balsillie, M.A 130 ,, Thomas Edington, M.A 110 ,, William Jenkins *60 „ William W. Dunlop 105 John Young 100 Sections (Junior). Mr. Alexander A. Fairnie £105 ,, James Shaw 100 „ George M'Crindle 100 „ William Dick, M.A 100 ,, George Gardiner 100 ,, James D. Shaw 100 ,, Alexander Miller, M.A 100 „ John Middleton (First), B.A 95 Richard S. Armit 90 Sections (Elementary). Mr. William Carmichael £90 „ Archibald Baker 80 ,, Sam. S. Kin near (four hours daily) 60 Miss Margaret Tocher 70 ,, Jessie Souter 70 Mr. Robert Frier, Drawing 100 ,, Henry Frier, ,, 50 ,, William Carmichael, Drawing 48 Dr. Davidson, Lectures on Science, weekly .... 20 Mr. Thomas M. Hunter, Singing 45 ,, George Lowe, Dancing 75 Captain Roland, and Assistant, Gymnastics .... 70 John Mullins, Drill Sergeant 52 GIRLS' SCHOOL. List of Masters. The Head Master (Mr. Alexander Thomson) has a salary of £400, and five shillings for each pupil, other than a Foundationer, at school. English Master — Mr. Robert Henderson . . . . £200 ,, ,, ,, John Patterson ..... 150 „ ,, Thomas Bain 150 £500 French „ „ Peter Stalker 200 German N. Meyerowicz 100 Latin „ „ John Stevens 45 Arithmetic ,, Robert Millar, M.A. .... £180 J. Croom Wallace . . . . 130 310 Writing „ „ D. M. Ireland £130 ,, ,, ,, John Buchart 60 190 Music ,, A. S. Jameson £320 „ „ „ T. S. Grizzelle 320 640 Singing ,, Walter Strang 160 Drawing ,, ,, Robert Frier £80 ,, ,, ,, Harry Frier 60 140 Dancing „ • Walter d'Egville 150 Drill ,, ,, Sergeant Donnelly 42 * And £30 for superintending at Home Lodge. 538 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Governesses. Lady Superintendent — Miss Alice Wilson £100 Drawing — Miss Kate Wilson 50 Music — Mrs. Graham, and Misses Watson, Robinson, Brown, Martin, and Campbell, each at £40 . . . £240 Miss Sneath 30 270 Managing — Misses Cowper and Finch, at £50 each . . . £100 Misses Smart, Goldie, Wells, and Symington, four at £40 160 Misses Lyle and M'Nair, two at £30 .... 60 Elementary Department — Miss Hoggan at £40 and Miss Sutherland at £30, 70 Pupil Governesses — Misses Morgan, Aikman, and Smith, three at £10, with their education 30 420 Misses Robina Smith, Mary C. Christie Adams, and Annie Adams receive their education. Sewing Department — Mrs Hurton 40 Before the carrying through of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, the Governors had the advantage of Reports from Mr Simon S. Laurie ; and since the schools were established imder the Provisional Orders, elaborate Reports have been obtained from W. B. Hodgson, Esq., LL.D., on the General Education, and from Professor Oakeley on Music. The pupils have also been subjected to competitive examinations by means of written papers, the Examiner being the Rev. James Currie, Rector of the Church of Scotland Training College. The general result of all the examinations has been highly satisfactory, and the recommendations received from time to time are being carefully attended to. Copies of the Reports will be furnished if wished. Reports were also obtained on the Sewing Classes and Religious Instruction. Merchant Company Schools. Memorandum, showing position before and after obtaining Provisional Orders. Before After Provi- Provi- sional 8ional Orders. Orders. I. Number of Scholars. 1. James Gillespie's Schools 140 1230 2. Merchant Maiden Hospital . • { ^fschoWs Js} 102 1300 3. GeorgeWatson'sH OS pital(forBoys) 84 1142 4. George Watson's College Schools (for Girls) — New . ... 600 5. Daniel Stewart's Hospital 68 320 394 4592 II. Number of Teachers employed. 1. James Gillespie's Schools 2 30 2. Merchant Maiden Hospital 10 63 ,, ,, Pupil Governesses 19 3. George Watson's College Schools (for Boys) ... 7 40 4. George Watson's College Schools (for Girls) — New . ... 38 „ ,, ,, ,, Pupil Governesses . ... 6 5. Daniel Stewart's Hospital ...... 7 17 Total 26 213 GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 539 Before Provi- sional Orders. After Provi- sional Orders. III. Salaries paid to Teacliers. 1. James Gillespie's Schools 2. Merchant Maiden Hospital . 3. George Watson's College Schools (for Boys) 4. George Watson's College Schools (for Girls) 5. Daniel Stewart's Hospital Total £ s. d. £ s. d. 211 6 0 1314 0 0 623 0 0 7255 0 0 395 0 0 5027 5 0 3899 0 9 485 0 0 1873 11 3 £1714 6 0 £19,368 17 0 Abstract of the Annual Account of the Treasurer of George Watson's Hospital, from 1st November 1870 to 1st November 1871. Charge. Arrears depending at close of last account, £167 11 10 Kental of Landed Estates and Houses, etc., viz. : — Merchiston and Oockburn, with Property at Grange Bank, Boroughruuirhead, Wharton Lane, and Parks at Hospital, £4,091 13 6 Preston, 300 9 0 Spy law, Roxburghshire, 1,438 13 10 Gilmerton, Fifeshire, 651 0 4* £6,481 16 8 s Interest on Bonds, Dividends on Bank Stocks, with Dr. S chaw's Annuity, 1,017 9 11 Revenue from the Trust-Estate of the late George Grindlay, 1,189 5 0 Sums received from Feuars at Merchiston and Abbotsford Park, on account of expense of making roads there . 83 8 6 Proceeds of Sale of the Building of the Hospital and Ground and House at Wharton Lane, £43,000, less half expense of Disposition, 42,713 15 8 Incidental Sums, 10 17 10 Property and Income-Tax for year to 1st November 1870, repayable by Government, 134 11 4 George Watson's College Schools — Fees received from Pupils, Session 1870-71, . . . £3,327 1 3 Whereof received during Account 1869-70, 742 12 6 2,584 8 9 Do. Fees received on Account of Session 1871-72, . 1,759 4 0 Revcnuo, . . 11,418 9 6« Money lent by the Governors repaid, 9,100 0 0 Sum of the Charge, . . £65,242 9 6 6 540 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Discharge. Interest paid on Borrowed Money, .... £555 3 7 Public Burdens, Insurance, etc., 518 6 4 6 Payments for Repairs, etc-, on Account of Estates and Woods, 221 12 7 Expenditure in relation to new Feus at Mercliiston, viz.: — To account of Roads and Drains at Myresi.de, . . £2,513 14 0 Tenants' Damages, etc , 89 13 10 Miscellaneous Payments, 78 15 10 Money borrowed repaid, 1,000 0 0 Property and Income-Tax retained from Revenue, . 100 4 8 Price of the Building formerly called the Merchant Maiden Hospital and Grounds, purchased with entry at 31st July 1871, with half expense of Disposition, £22,973, 8s. 6d., and interest, £142, 16s. 2d., .... 142 16 2 22,973 8 6 Expended on Alterations, 1,540 0 0 Amount expended on Alterations at Melville House, George Square, taken on lease, to suit it for School for Young Ladies, 350 0 0 Quarterly Disbursements : — Building and Repairs, .... £814 8 4 Plenishing and Utensils, . . . 217 1 5 Maintenance and Medicine, . . 1,288 1 2 Clothing, 305 12 9 6 Coals and Lights, .... 109 19 6 Fees and Salaries of Ses- sion 1870-71, . £4,942 14 7 Do. 1871-72, . 282 2 6 5,224 17 1 Books, Stationery, and Printing, . 309 19 9 Miscellaneous Payments, viz. : — Proportion of Expense of Pro- visional Orders, including Printing, etc., . £390 3 2 Rents of Boarding-houses, Taxes, Premiums, Cleaning School, Business Charges, . 511 14 6 Do., chargeable against Session 1871-72, . 50 15 7 ; 952 13 3 Apprentice Fees and University Al- lowances, 501 13 4 Bounty paid at 25 years of age, . . 50 0 0 £9,774 6 7 6 Whereof expended on Old Hospital be- fore sale to the Royal Infirmary, and deducted from the price received, £485, 12s. 10d., and other items, carried to Stock Acct., £723, Is. 3d., 1,208 14 1 1,208 14 1 8,565 12 6 6 Expenditure of the Year, 10,622 5 7 Money lent by the Governors, 22,600 0 0 Balance due by the Bank of Scotland at 1st Nov. 1870, £1,281 9 11 Do. do. at 1st Nov. 1871, 3,265 1 11 Paid in, . 1,983 12 0 Arrears depending at 1st November 1871, viz. : — Current interest on Bond and Bill, .... £282 7 2 Carry forward, £282 7 2 £64,446 14 2 GEORGE WATSON'S HOSPITAL AND COLLEGE SCHOOLS. 541 Brought forward, £282 7 2 £G4,44G 14 2 Feu- Duties at Mcrchiston, 2 14 3 6 Property and Income-Tax, repayable by Government, 134 11 4 Rents of My reside, etc., 31 4 4 Do. Wharton Lane, 19 0 0 Do. Roxburghshire Estate, 150 0 0 Do. Gilmerton, 151 0 4 a 770 17 G Balance due by the Treasurer at 1st November 1871, .... 24 17 10 6 Sum equal to the Charge, . . £65,242 9 6 6 Edinburgh, 16th November 1871. — Audited and examined by Committee on Accounts. John Purdie. James Lewis. Eodem die. — Approved at General Meeting of Governors, and ordered to be Printed. Thomas Knox, P. Abstract of the Stock at 1st November 1871. Dr. Or. Sums constituted by Bond, £15,125 0 0 Bank of Scotland, 8 shares, or £800 Capital Stock held, being balance of 16j- shares, less 85 shai-es sold, stated at balance of cost, 337 0 0 Value of Stock at 1st November 1871, at £266 per cent., £2,128. British Linen Company Bank, £1,350 Capital Stock held, being balance of £1,600, less £250 sold, . . . 2,377 8 0 Value at 1st November 1871, at £271 per cent., £3,658, 10s. Annuity by Legacy of Dr. Schaw, valued at . . . 100 0 0 £17,939 8 0 Estate of Merchiston, Grange Bank, and Borough- muirhead properties, per valuation by Mr. Alexander Scott, 25th November 1861, including Meliorations since, £72,236 5 6 With amount expended for new roads and drains at Merchiston, to be repaid by the Feuars, less £1,466, 14s. 5 6 already repaid, 5,324 1 7 6 Price of subjects at Boroughmuirhead, purchased 1867, 6,000 0 0 Sum paid to the Free Church for right of .servitude belonging to their Feu, . 320 0 0 £83,880 7 1° Estate of Cockburn, per do., including Meliorations since, .... 27,136 13 4" Lands of Preston, per do., . . . 6,410 17 G Roxburghshire Estate, per do., . . 28,360 6 11 Estate of Gilmerton, Fifeshire, including Meliorations, etc., .... 20,223 15 0° Plenishing in Boarding-houses, valued at Purchase price of the Building formerly occupied as the Merchant Maiden Hospital and Ground, £22,853, with £120, 8s. 6d., half expense of Disposition, and amount expended on account of alterations thereon, £1,540, . 166,011 19 11° 525 0 0 24,513 8 G Carry forward, £208,989 16 5° 542 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Cr. Brought forward, =£208,989 16 5 8 Proportion of expense of Provisional Orders obtained under the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, . 390 3 2 To George Watson's College Schools, amount of Fees received for Session 1871-72 prior to close of this ac- count, £1,759, 4s., less charges thereon paid, £332, 18s. Id., £1,426 5 11 To Daniel Stewart's Hospital, balance under Promissory Notes, £9,700 0 0 To the Orphan Hospital under do., . 3,600 0 0 £13,300 0 0 Interest on the preceding Obligations from Whitsunday to 1st Nov. 1871, . 247 15 6 13,547 15 6 To sum impressed with the Governors, £200, and £50 added by them to found Bursary at £10 per annum, to be called the 'Wright Bursary,' 250 0 0 Sum lent Tenant in connection with Feu of part of his farm, on which no interest is to be charged during the currency of his Lease, 1,200 0 0 Arrears of Feu-Duties due by the Hospital at 1st No- vember 1871, 174 14 0 Arrears of Bents and others due to the Hospital at do., including current interests, 770 17 6 Balance due by the Bank of Scotland at do., . . . 3,265 111 Do. by the Treasurer at do., .... 24 17 10 8 £15,398 15 5 Net Stock at 1st November 1871, 199,242 1 6 £214,640 16 11 £214,640 16 11 Net Stock at 1st November 1871, . . £199,242 1 6 Do. at 1st November 1870, . . 182,305 4 7 Increase this Year when compared with last, £16,936 16 11 DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 543 DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL, AND DANIEL STEWART'S INSTITUTION, EDINBURGH. THE HOSPITAL OR BOARDING-HOUSE IS AT NO. 27, SAXE-COBOURG PLACE, EDINBURGH; THE DAY SCHOOL IS SITUATED AT THE DEAN, EDINBURGH. I. — Nature of Foundation. 1. 1814. Daniel Stewart, Officer in the Court of Exchequer, Edin- burgh. 2. The purposes of the foundation, as stated in the Founder's testament, are for the relief, maintenance, and education, first, of poor boys of the name of Stewart; next, poor boys of the name of Macfarlane; and after them, poor boys in general. Boys to be admitted must reside within the city of Edinburgh or suburbs, and be descended of honest, industrious, and well-behaved parents, whose circumstances in life do not enable them suitably to support and educate their children at other schools. Statutes and rules were composed by Mr Stewart's Trustees, and these were amended by the Governors in 1868. The Governors were incorporated by Act of Parliament, 23 and 24 Vict. cap. 2 (Sess. 1860). In 1870 a Provisional Order was, on the application of the Governors, obtained from Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State, under authority of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, by which the Governors were, inter alia, empowered to convert the Hospital into a day school, and to board out a portion of the Foundationers, and maintain the others in boarding-houses to be established by them, and to establish day schools for girls. Copies of the statutes by the Trustees and of the Provisional Order of 1870 may be obtained from the Secretary and Solicitor of the Governors, Mr. Alexander Kirk Mackie, S.S.C., 57, Hanover Street, Edinburgh. 3. The sum originally left by the Founder for the above purposes was about £13,000, with some shop and house property in the Old Town of Edinburgh. The funds, according to the last published statement, sent herewith, amounted to £121,717, 16s. 0 2 d.,and are almost wholly invested in land and house property. The gross revenue, including school fees, conform to the above statement, was £5,898, 5s. ll 2 d., and the net revenue of the foundation £3,452, 14s. 2 2 d. 4. Reference is made to Answer 2 as to the constitution of the trust. The management is in the Master, Treasurer, and twelve Assistants of the Edinburgh Merchant Company. For names of Governors see page 550 hereof. 5. No. 6. The Master, Treasurer, and twelve Assistants of the Merchant Com- pany are elected annually by the Company, which is incorporated by 544 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION Royal Charter and Act of Parliament ; and as such they become Governors of this Hospital and School. 7. The Governors, inter alia, manage the estate of the Hospital, and settle and direct the government of the Hospital and whole affairs relating thereto, and fix from time to time the age for election of Foundationers, and that at which they may be required to leave. The Governors elect the Head-Master of the day school, who holds his office during the pleasure of the Governors, and is responsible for the efficient working of his school. The Governors also judge as to the time and way of carry- ing out the various powers conferred upon them by the Provisional Order above mentioned in regard to bursaries, scholarships, etc., and, generally, as to the management of the day school. 8. The present application of the funds is not altogether in terms of the Founder's will ; out the change has been made under the authority of Parliament. Reference is made to answer to question No. 2. 9. Boys, '37. Of whom 28 are fatherless; of whom 9, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families; this being a necessary qualification. Nine have, as authorized by the Provisional Order, been elected through merit, without any inquiry into their circumstances. 10. None. 11. Last ordinary election was in June 1869, when 8 were elected from 53 applicants. Since then the elections made have been entirely on ground of merit. 12. All those elected by the Governors have been qualified according to the statutes. 13. Boys, on admission to the foundation by election, must be of the age of nine, and under that of fifteen, on the 1st of October of the year of election. They leave the Hospital at the end of the half-session in which they attain sixteen years of age. Those- elected by merit are at corre- sponding ages. 14. The qualification for admission on the foundation is fully stated in answer No. 2. By the Founder's testament, no unhealthy or diseased boy shall at any time, or under any account, be admitted into the Hospital, or allowed to participate in or enjoy any of the benefits, privileges, or advantages thereto belonging. By the Provisional Order, all applicants for admission, either to the foundation or the day school, must pass an entrance examination suitable to the age of each applicant, and satis- factory to the Governors; and in selecting those to be admitted, regard is to be paid to the merits and attainments of each as tested by the examination. The Provisional Order provides that no preference is to be given to children of any particular name. 15. By the Provisional Order it is declared, that the Governors shall be entitled to decline electing any child whose admission would, in their opinion, be prejudicial to the interests of the other children ; and they shall also be entitled at any time to remove from the foundation any of the present or future Foundationers whose continued connection therewith would, in their opinion, have a like effect. 16. In needy cases, the Foundationers, after leaving, and during their apprenticeships, receive 2s. 6d. a week, and all get an allowance of £5 for clothes. 17. 14; of whom 12 are school bursars. 18. 290. DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 545 Fees of the Entire Course: — 1. Elementary Department . 2. Junior Department — Lower Division . Upper „ 3. Senior „ .... „ „ Advanced 19. No. 20. A statement of the last published account will be found on refer- ence to pages 44-49 of the Merchant Company Annual Report, herewith sent.* The accounts are quarterly prepared by the Accountant of the Hospital, Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., audited by an Audit Committee appointed by the Governors, and laid before the Governors at their quarterly meetings for their approval. There is also an annual ac- count made out by the Accountant, and audited by the Audit Committee ; and thereafter it is laid before the Governors for approval. Further- more, with the view of securing every publicity, an abstract of the accounts is printed annually for the Governors and every member of the Merchant Company, and any one who may wish to see it. The accounts for the financial year just closed will be sent when printed, if wished. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 14. Boys in Hospital Boarding-house . .14 Boarded out . . . . 23 37 2. Foundationers who are boarded with their parents receive an allow- ance of £21 a year, and those boarded with strangers £28 a year. These allowances do not include clothing and medical attendance, which are provided by the Governors. In fixing these allowances, care has been taken to prevent parents making any profit by the board of their children. 3. No. 4. Friends may visit from 5 to 8 in the evening, and the pupils are allowed to leave the boarding-house when not occupied with lessons, sometimes accompanied with the Master, sometimes not. All who have friends in town may remain with them from Saturday morning till Monday morning. The holidays are two months at midsummer, one week at Christmas, and one week in April. 5. Depriving a boy of part of his play-time ; writing a task on slate or paper ; corporal punishment in serious cases, only after same is reported to Head-Master, but corporal punishment is very rare. The punishment is determined by the Master. A record is kept. 6. In the case of day pupils, no. In the case of Foundationers in the boarding-house (14 in number), the senior pupils have a general charge over the juniors in the way of seeing that their behaviour, when not engaged with the Master, is satisfactory, and in giving them occa- sional assistance with their lessons. 7. The Foundationers attend the day school during the day; and those not boarded out are in the boarding-house by night, under the care of the Matron and a resident Master. * See p. 551 of this. 2 M £0 10 0 per Quarter. 0 15 0 „ 10 0 15 0 1 10 0 546 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 8. Room — No. 1. 10-6 X 10*8 X 12*6 high, with 3 beds. 483 cubic feet to each pupil. „ 2. 10-6 X 10*8 X 10-6 „ 3 „ 409 „ „ 3. 15-9 X ll'O X 10-6 „ 6 „ 308 „ „ 4. 19-6 X 12*0 X 10-6 „ 6 „ 400 Each pupil has a separate bed. 9. Similar to those of pupils at other schools. They are left entirely free. Size of play-ground, 220 yards x 52 yards. 10. The boys have baths regularly in the boarding-house. The Medical Officer of Health for the city (Dr. Littlejohn) visits the day school at least once in each quarter to ascertain its sanitary condition, and make a report to the Governors, containing any suggestions. The Medical Officer of the Hospital or boarding-house reports twice a year to the Governors as to the condition of the boarding-house. Recent reports can be sent if wished. 11. There have only been two deaths during the last fifteen years. 12. See p. 547. Liberal diet. III. Instruction. 1. Foundationers at election must be poor, but respectable ; and they are nearly all orphans. "Very various. 2. Yes, to a certain extent. Each boy, with due regard to his inclina- tion, is placed on the classical or commercial department of the school. 3. See p. 548. 4. See p. 548. 5. In school : Prayer and Bible lesson every morning. In boarding- house : Praise and prayer night and morning. Religious instruction to Foundationers in house, also, on Sunday. See p. 549. 6. About 40. Promotion by merit only, and after special examination. Prizes are given to one in every ten pupils ; also certificates of merit. They are awarded by class marks and written examination, — monthly in junior and quarterly in senior classes. .7. Yes. Eoom. Room. No. 1. 38 X 24 X 19 — 34 pupils. No. 8. 19 X 14 X 15 — 20 pupil 2. 23 X 18 X 18 — 40 „ »> 9. 24 X 21 X 15 — 40 „ „ 3. 38 X 24 X 19 — 35 j, h 10. 32 X 19 X 15 — 40 „ „ 4. 19 X 14 X 19 — 22 „ M 11. 26 X 19 X 15 — 26 „ » 5. 18 X 46 X 26 — 115 „ 5» 12. 26 X 19 X 15 — 35 ,, „ 6. 25 X 13 X 15 — 30 „ 1> 13. 32 X 19 X 15 — 34 „ » 7. 24 X 18 X 15 - 40 „ n 14. 23 X 21 X 15 — 40 „ There is no library in the school, but there is one in the boarding-house. 8. The Head-Master is appointed by the Governors, and is responsible for the efficient working of his school. All the Teachers and other persons under the Head-Master are appointed by him and under his control, and they hold their offices at his pleasure; but their salaries are fixed and paid by the Governors. The Head-Master at present teaches one and a half hours daily, principally a few backward pupils ; the rest of the day being devoted to the superintendence of the classes generally. The Head- Master holds his office at the pleasure of the Governors. 9. A list of the Teachers in the day school, with their salaries, is sent herewith. No portion of their salaries is derived directly from fees. They hold their office during the pleasure of the Head-Master. See p. 549. 10. No. 11. See p. 550. 12. By competition amongst the boys' schools of the Merchant Com- DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 547 pany ; in future, by such competition and by position of pupils in the classes of the University. 13. Four during last ten years. (1.) Robert Adamson, M.A., with First Class honours in Mental Philosophy, Tyndal Bruce Prize of £20, Tyndal Bruce Scholarship of £100, and Ferguson Scholarship (Philo- sophy) of £80, besides numerous class prizes. (2.) James Selkirk, Medal in Chemistry Class (University). (3.) Henry Rutherford, appointment in India.* 14. No record is kept. General. The Governors have, in connection with the Directors of the other Merchant Company Hospitals, been the leaders in Hospital reform. They suggested, and at large expense got carried through, the Endowed Insti- tutions (Scotland) Act, 1869 ; and they subsequently obtained Provisional Orders, by which they have been enabled to make vast changes in Hospital management, as will be seen by the statement of results annexed to the schedule of George Watson's Hospital and College Schools. The Mer- chant Company Corporations have, with one exception, been the only institutions that have taken advantage of the above Act, — the one exception being c The Bathgate Academy,' which is connected with one of the estates belonging to the Merchant Company Corporations. The Provisional Orders so applied for and obtained met with the hearty approval of Mr. Forster, the Home Secretary (Mr. Bruce), and the Lord Advocate. These Provisional Orders were founded mainly upon the reports of the Education Commissioners. The Governors have but one desire, namely, to administer the funds of the Founders with the greatest practical advantage to the cause of education. They court every inquiry into their management of the schools and corporations, and will give careful attention to recommendations of Education Commissioners and leading educationalists. The change has been a great success.^ (Signed) A. Kirk Mackie, 22d Nov. 1872. Secretary. Daily Distribution of Boys' Time. Summer. Winter. 6i-7i 6f-7£ 7£— 8 7|— 8.20j 8 \ & 8£ Wet Mornings. 8£ & 8f 9.20— 3£ 4|— 5 5 —6 6 —1\ 7i—S 8 —9 Washing and dressing. Prayers and breakfast. Set out for school. In school. Drawing in school. Certain of the boys every alternate day. Dinner. Play. Lessons (Preparation). Prayers and supper. Play ; indoor games in Winter, out- door in Summer. 9 Bed. Older boys may remain out of bed half an hour longer if they choose. * The Governors of this Hospital and the Governors of George Watson's Hospital have endowed a Chair in the Edinburgh University, the annual cost of which, taken at £524, represents, at 4 per cent., a capital sum of £13,100. t Special reference is made to page 12 of the prospectus of the Edinburgh Merchant Company Schools for session 1872-73, sent herewith. 548 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Senior Department (Classical). Hours. 1st Class. 2d Class. 3d Class (Highest). 9.20— 10* English Mathematics Latin 10£— 11 Latin English Mathematics 11— llf Mathematics Latin j German (English llf— 12^ English ( Mathematics \ German J Greek 12^-1 Interval Interval Interval 1-lf ( T ntin J J j it 11 11 (Mathematics English Latin Mathematics lf-2* ( French ( Latin Latin Mathematics | English 2*-3i (Writing (French Writing Latin French Mathematics / English 10 hours English 7 hours English 7 hours Latin 10 ,, Classics 10 Classics 12 , , Per week. < Mathe- matics 7 ,, Mathe- matics 10 |, Mathe- matics 10 French 5 French 3 „ French 3 ,, \ German 2 German 3 Chemistry and Physics — twice a week. Architectural Drawing — Tuesday and Thursday. Landscape Drawing — Monday and Wednesday. Fencing, Gymnastics, Dancing — Friday Lecture on Physiology — Once a week. Commercial Class. — The Time-table is similar to that of the 1st Class, but in lieu of Latin they substitute English and Arithmetic, and German (twice a week). Statement of Work Done in Highest Class, Session 1871-72. Mathematics. Arithmetic. — Miscellaneous Examples and Appendix (Barnard Smith). Algebra. — Colenso, Part I., from Chap. 10 to end, and Colenso, Part II. to end of chap, on Logarithms. Trigonometry. — Colenso, Part I. to end. Geometry.— Euclid, Books I. II. III. IV. V. VI., and part of Book XII., on Quadrature of the Circle. Natural Philosophy. — Balfour Stewart's Outlines. Chemistry.— The so-called Non-Metallic Elements, from Wilson's Chemistry. DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 549 Classics. Greek. — Xenophon's Anabasis, Book I., chap. 1-6 inclusive. Homer's Iliad, Book VI. Xenophon's Memorabilia, Book II., chap. 1 to 4 inclusive. English-Greek Composition. Latin.— Virgil's ^Eneid, Book IV. Livy, parts of Books I. and II. Horace. Odes, Book I., 1 to 18. English-Latin Composition. Ancient Geography of Italy and Greece. English. Geography (Political). — North and South America generally ; British America and United States more particularly. M'Kay's ' Elements.'' ,, (Physical). — The greater part of Page's Introductory Text-Book. History. — Roman History, to end of Second Punic War ; Chambers's History of Rome. English Literature. — From 1660 to present time ; Pryde's English Litera- ture. English Proper. — 'Macbeth,' for Reading, Parsing, Analysis, Deriva- tions, etc. Composition. — Weekly Essays. 1 DalgleisK's Composition,'' French. Moliere. — ' Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme.' Grammar. — Whole of Canon's French Grammar. English- French Composition thrice a week. German. A small German play. Whole of Fischart's German Grammar. English-German Composition thrice a week. Time-Table for Sunday. %h — 9 J. Preparation of Lessons. 11—1. In Church. 2^—4. In Church. 6$ — 7£. Religious Instruction. List of Teachers, with their Salaries. Senior Department. 1. Finlay M'Rae, M.A. Mathematics, etc £220 2. George Robb, M.A. English 200 3. James Moir, M.A. Classics . 200 4. Paus de Martin, B.A. French 80 5. C. Fischart. German 60 6. John Fortie. Landscape Drawing 40 7. D. Williamson. Architectural Drawing, Writing, etc. . . 50 8. William May. Commercial Master 120 Upper Junior Department. 9. James Stewart (Ordinary Branches) 145 10. John M'Kay „ „ 110 Lower Junior Department. 11. Alexander Waddell (Ordinary Branches) .... 100 12. William Austin „ „ 90 Elementary Department. 13. Alexander Munro ......... 80 550 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Davidson. Physiology, 10s. 6d. per lecture. George Lowe. Dancing (per Quarter) £30 Sergeant Donnelly. Fencing, Drilling, etc., 5s. per visit. Joseph Geoghegan. Singing . 30 No portion of the above salaries is derived from fees. Head-Master £330, with free house, and capitation grant of 5s. per pupil, except Foundationers. Before the carrying through of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act (1869), the Governors had the advantage of Reports from Mr. Simon S. Laurie ; and since the schools were established under the Provisional Orders, elaborate Reports have been obtained from W. B. Hodgson, Esq., LL.D., on the General Education, and from Professor Oakeley on Music. The pupils have also been subjected to competitive examinations, the examiner being the Rev. James Currie, Rector of the General Assembly's Normal Training College. The general result of all the examinations has been highly satisfactory, and the recommenda- tions received from time to time are being carefully attended to. Copies of the Reports will be furnished if wished. A Report was also obtained on Religious Instruction. Governors. List of the Governors of Daniel Stewart's Hospital and Daniel Stewart's Institution for Session 1872-73. John Clapperton, Esq., Master of the Merchant Company, 371, High Street, Preses. Robert Bryson, Esq., Treasurer of the Merchant Company, 66, Princes Street. Messrs. Thomas Knox, 15, Hanover Street. „ James Lewis, 177, Canongate. ,, John Purdie, 83, Princes Street. ,, Stephen Adam, 131, Constitution Street, Leith. ,, John S. Shiels, „ „ „ Adam Beattie, 33, Chalmers Street. „ David Dickson, 10, South St. Andrew Street. ,, Josiah Livingston, 7, Roxburgh Place. „ Charles Blair, 67, Gilmore Place. „ William Hamilton, 100, George Street. „ Robert Gordon, Heriot Bridge. „ Alexander Gowans, 25, George Street. Officials. Treasurer and Factor. Mr. John Scott Moncrieff, C.A., 26, Frederick Street. Accountant. Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., York Place. Secretary. Mr. A. Kirk Mackie, S.S.C. Land Adviser. Mr. Adam Curror, The Lee, Edinburgh. Surgeon. Mr. W. Burn Murdoch, M.D., 4, Bruntsfield Terrace. Architect. Mr. David Macgibbon, 89, George Street. Head Master of Schools. Mr. William King, M.A. DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 551 Abstract of the Annual Account of the Treasurer of Daniel Stewart's Hospital, from 1st Sept. 1870 to 1st Sept. 1871. Charge. Arrears depending at close of last Account, viz. : — Current Interest on Bonds, Bills, etc., . . . £273 1 8 Rents and others of the Estate of Balbardie and Bathgate, 159 6 2« Property and Income-Tax for Year to 1st Septem- ber 1869, repayable by Government, . . . 83 10 4 £515 18 2« Bents of Houses and Shops in Edinburgh, with Park at the Hospital, for year to Whitsunday 1871, . £433 1 0 Land Rents and Feu-Duties of the Estate of Balbardie and Bathgate, viz. : — Rents of Lands and Houses, etc., £1,969 9 7 Feu-Duties, . . . . 407 15 9 8 £2,377 5 4 8 Produce of Lands in occupation of the Governors, . . . . 661 11 10 Received during this account for Sand sold, 469 15 6 Incidental Sums received, . 0 2 0 3,508 14 8 8 Interest on Bonds and Bills, 909 11 8 Bank Interest, 31 16 11 Property and Income-Tax retained from Hospital's Revenue for the year to 1st Sept. 1870, repayable by Government, 81 5 7 6 Daniel Stewart's Institution — Fees received from • Pupils, Session 1870-71, 933 16 0 Ordinary Revenue, 5,898 5 ll 9 Money lent repaid, 1,000 0 0 Drawn from Bank, — Balance in Bank at 1st Sept. 1870 :— • On Deposit Receipt, £1,000 0 0 On Account Current, 142 1 7 £1,142 1 7 Balance due by Bank on Account Current at 1st Sept. 1871, 89 16 9 Drawn out, 1,052 4 10 Balance due to the Treasurer at 1st September 1871, . . . . 38 15 4 Sum equal to Discharge, £8,505 4 3 8 Discharge. Balance due to the Treasurer at close of last Account, . . . £37 5 7 6 Payments connected with House and Shop Properties in Edinburgh, viz. : — rublic Burdens, etc., £34 12 l 8 Payments for Repairs, Insurance, etc., . . . 11 6 2 Payments connected with Balbardie and Bathgate, viz. : — Public Burdens, etc., . . . £243 8 4 Meliorations, Repairs, Insurance, Salaries, Wages, etc., . . . 1,092 2 5 8 1,335 10 9« Carryforward, £1,381 9 1 £37 5 7 6 552 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £1,381 9 1 £37 5 7 6 Donation to the Bathgate District Mission, . 5 0 0 Arrears struck off by order of the Governors as irre- coverable, 3116 Miscellaneous Payments, 42 14 11 Property and Income-Tax retained from Kevenue, . 79 0 3 Disbursements per Quarterly Book — Building and Bepairs, viz. : — Alterations on Hospital for Schools, £225 4 4 Current Bepairs and Upholding, 70 10 4 £295 14 8 Plenishing and Utensils- Desks and Fittings for Schools, . . . £59 10 9 Current Furnishing, . 78 10 11 138 1 8 Maintenance and Medicine, . 851 15 6 289 6 0 Coals and Lights, 84 17 5 Fees and Salaries, . 2,503 16 0 Books, Stationery, and Printing, . 153 12 3 Miscellaneous Payments, viz. :— Proportion of Expense of Provisional Orders, including Printing and Advertising, . . £257 11 6 Taxes, Insurance, Clean- ing Schools, Business Charges, etc., . . 254 16 2 512 7 Allowances to former Foundationers, 73 11 10 £4,903 3 0 Whereof for altering Buildings, etc. for new Schools, £225, 4s. 4d., and £59, 10s. 9d., and also £257, lis., 6d., carried to Stock Account, . 542 6 7 542 6 7 4,360 16 5 Ordinary Expenditure, 5,872 12 2 Money lent during this Account, 1,500 0 0 Arrears depending at the close of this Account, viz. : — Current Interest, etc £281 18 1 Bents and others of the Estate of Balbardie and Bathgate, 189 16 2 8 Property and Income-Tax for year to 1st Sept. 1870, repayable by Government, . . . 81 5 7 6 552 19 11 Sum or the Discharge, £8,505 4 3 9 Edinburgh, 12th December 1871. — Audited and Examined by Committee on Accounts. Stepx. Adam. John S. Shiels. Eodem die— Approved at General Meeting of Governors, and ordered to be Printed. Thomas Knox, P. DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 553 Abstract of the Stock at 1st Sept. 1871. Dr. Cr. Bonds and Bills due to the Hospital, . . . £23,600 0 0 Heritable Subjects in Edinburgh, viz. : — 1st, Houses and Shops as valued by Messrs. Lorimer and Beattie on 10th April 1860, . . . .£3,825 0 0 Add for Repairs on 52 South Bridge, on which interest received, . 200 0 0 £4,025 0 0 2nd, Other Subject", per valuation of Mr Beattie, dated 7th Oct. 1861, . 1,086 0 0 5,111 0 0 Cost of the Estate of Bathgate and Balbardie, pur- chased with Entry at Whiteunday 1861, for £48,000, with £315, Is. 4d., proportion of Expense of Dispo- sition, per Account 1861-62, . . £48,315 1 4 Meliorations on Buildings, Fences, etc., since then, less deductions for dete- rioration, per detailed Accounts, . 2,648 14 5 £50,963 15 9 Deduct sum received from Insurance Office, for damage to Bathgate Mill by fire, . . . £869 13 2 Sums received, viz. : — 1865-66, for Houses at Kirkroads sold, £100, and on account of price of Steam-engine etc., at Bathgate Mill, £120 ; and, 1867-68, for Thornton's Houses, £100, . . . . 320 0 0 1,189 13 2 £49,774 2 7 Cost of Articles in Bal- bardie House, per Account 1861-62, . £21 2 6 Cost of Machinery, etc., at the Colliery Work- ings on the Estate, purchased from the Tenant, in terms of Lease current when estate was bought, per do., .... 1,646 6 10 1,667 9 4 Price of Lands at Dean, on which Hospital is built, and expenses connected therewith, per Statement, 29th July 1861, .... £2,120 0 6 Expense of building the Hospital and Lodge, and of laying out and enclosing the Ground, per ditto, . . £34,612 6 ll 6 • 51,441 11 11 £80,152 11 11 554 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Cr. Brought forward, £34,612 6 ll 8 £2,120 0 6 £80,152 11 11 And cost of erecting new house for the Governor, . . 1,592 8 11 To which add amount expended during this account to suit Hospital for Schools, . . 225 4 4 Furnishing and Plenishing the Hos- pital, . . £2,093 19 9 s To which add amount expended during this account for Desks and other Fittings for Schools, . . 59 10 9 36,430 0 2« 2,153 10 6 6 40,703 11 3 Proportion of Expense of Provisional Orders obtained under the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 257 11 6 Arrears of Eents and others depending at 1st Sept. 1871, including current Interests, .... 552 19 ll 2 Balance due by the Royal Rank, Edinburgh, at do., . 89 16 9 Balance due to the Treasurer at do., . . . . £38 15 4 Net Stock at 1st September 1871 121,717 16 0* £121,756 11 42 £121,756 11 4* Net Stock at 1st September 1871, as above, . . £121,717 16 0 2 Do. at 1st September 1870, .... 121,829 6 10 Decrease this year when compared with last, . £111 10 9 10 Report by the Accountant on Accounts of Daniel Stewart's Hospital, from 1st September 1870 to 1st September 1871. I have examined and checked the Accounts of the Hospital for the year to 1st Septem- ber 1871, and prepared Abstracts thereof, and of the Stock Account of the Hospital, as at that date, submitted herewith ; and with reference to these I have to report as follows : I. The Income of the year has consisted of — 1. Land Rents, Feus, Sales of Sand, etc., at Balbardie, . . . £3,508 14 8 8 Less— Public Burdens, £243 8 4 Payments for Meliorations, Repairs, Insurance, "Wages to Ground Officer, Labourers, etc., . . 1,092 2 5 6 Donation to Bathgate Mission, . . . . 5 0 0 Arrears struck off, 3 11 6 Property-Tax, 50 1 4 1,394 3 7« £2,114 11 l 3 2. Rents of House and Shop Properties in Edinburgh, and Park at Hospital, £433 1 0 Less— Public Burdens, Repairs, etc., £45, 18s. 3 6 d., and Property Tax, £13, Is. 9d., ... 59 0 0 6 374 0 11 s Carry forward, £2,488 12 0 8 DANIEL STEWART'S HOSPITAL AND INSTITUTION. 555 Brought forward, £2,488 12 0* 3. Other Revenue from Interests, etc., . . . £1,022 14 2 6 Lew— Property Tax, 15 17 2 1,006 17 0 6 £3,495 9 12 From which Deduct — 4. Miscellaneous Payments, 42 14 11 Net Revenue, £3,452 14 2 2 Note— It is right to keep in view that the above Revenue in- cludes, as for some years back, considerable amounts received for sand sold at Balbardie. This source of income will con- tinue to be available, it is believed, for a good many years, but cannot be looked upon as permanent. 5. School Fees for Session 1870-71, 933 16 0 In all, £4,386 10 2* II. The Expenditure has been— Building and Repairs at Institution, . . . £295 14 8 Whereof for Alterations for Schools carried to Stock, 225 4 4 Current Repairs and Upholding, £70 10 4 Plenishing and Utensils, . . £138 1 8 Whereof for Desks and Fittings for School, . . . . 59 10 9 78 10 11 Maintenance and Medicine, .... 851 15 6 Clothing, ....... 289 6 0 Coals and Lights, 84 17 5 Fees and Salaries in connection with Schools and Boarding-houses, Treasurer, Medical and other Officials, Wages, etc., 2,503 16 0 Books, Stationery, and Printing, . . . 153 12 3 Miscellaneous Payments, including Taxes, Insur- ance, Business Charges, etc., . £512 7 8 Whereof proportion of Expense of Provisional Orders, including Printing, Advertising, etc., carried to Stock, . . . 257 11 6 254 16 2 Allowances to former Foundationers, . . . 73 11 10 Deduct, £4,360 16 5 There has thus been a Surplus of Income over Ordinary Expenditure of £25 13 9 2 III. The result on the year on the Stock Account is a decrease of . £111 10 9 10 Arising thus — From Deductions in Stock Account, as in former years, from Sums expended in Meliorations, viz. : — 5 per cent, on amount for Buildings, Fences, etc., . . £49 10 9 Do. do. for Drainage, 71 16 4 10 per cent, on do. for Home Farm Steading, etc., . . 15 17 6 £137 4 7 Less Surplus Revenue, as on preceding page, . . . . 26 13 9 2 Sum as above, £11110 9*° Edinburgh, 30th November 1871. (8igned) Ja. M. Macandkkw. 556 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND JAMES GILLESPIE'S SCHOOLS, EDINBURGH. Please keep in view that by ' Foundationers' in this Schedule is meant old men and women. The Hospital or Boarding-house for old people is No. 1, Bruntsfield Place, Edinburgh. The Schools for Boys and Girls are situated at Bruntsfield Links, Edinburgh. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1797. James Gillespie of Spy law, merchant and tobacconist in Edinburgh. 2. The purpose of the Foundation is stated in the Founder's testament or will to be 4 for the special intent and purpose of founding and endowing an Hospital or Charitable Institution within the city of Edinburgh or suburbs for the aliment and maintenance of old men and women, and which Hospital shall always be called, denominated, and described by the name of James Gillespie's Hospital,' and 4 for the purpose of endow- ing a Charitable or Free School within the city of Edinburgh or suburbs thereof, for the education of one hundred poor boys, who are to be taught reading, writing, and arithmetic' The Trustees were by the testament authorized to compose rules and statutes for the Hospital and School, which they did ; and these have frequently been amended by the Governors. The Governors are incorporated by Royal Charter under the name and style of ' The Governors of James Gillespie's Hospital and Free School.' In 1870 a Provisional Order, on the application of the Governors, was obtained from Her Majesty's principal Secretary of State under authority of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, by which the Governors were, inter alia, empowered to convert the Hospital into a Day School, and to board out a portion of the old Foundationers at pensions of from £10 to £25 per annum, and maintain the others in boarding-houses to be established by them, and to establish other Day Schools, and to admit girls as well as boys to the benefits of all or any of the schools. Copies of the statutes by the Trustees, and the Provisional Order of 1870, may be obtained from the Secretary and Solicitor of the Governors, Mr. Alexander Kirk Mackie, S.S.C., 57, Hanover Street, Edinburgh. 3. The sum left by the Founder for the purposes of the Hospital was £12,000, exclusive of and over and above his lands in the parish of Colinton, and that for the purposes of the School was £2700. The funds, according to the last published statement, sent herewith, amounted to JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND SCHOOLS. 557 £65,102, Is. 5 6 d., and are principally invested in land and house property and furnishings. The gross revenue, including school fees, conform to the above statement, was £2383, 5s. 4 6 d., and the net revenue of the Foundation £1703, lis. 5d.* 4. Reference is made to Answer 2 as to the constitution of the Trust. The management is in the Master, twelve Assistants, and Treasurer of the Merchant Company, five members of the Town Council, and the Ministers of St. Andrew's and St. Stephen's Churches, — in all 21. For names of present Governors see page 562. 5. The Hospital proper is for old people; but connected with this trust is a great Day School. 6. The Governors : (1) The Master, Treasurer, and twelve Assistants of the Merchant Company are elected annually by the Company, which Company is incorporated by Royal Charter and Act of Parliament ; and (2) the five representatives from the Town Council of Edinburgh are elected annually by the Magistrates and Town Council. 7. By the Royal Charter the Governors are empowered to manage, direct, and appoint in all matters and things touching and respecting the said Hospital and Free School, and the government, estates, funds, and other revenues and concerns of the same respectively, and of the cor- poration. The Governors also make bye-laws and rules for the better administration of the affairs of the trust. They also elect the Head Master, who holds his office during their pleasure, and he is responsible for the efficient working of the schools. The Governors inter alia manage the estate of the Hospital and whole affairs relating thereto. The Governors also judge as to the time and way of carrying out the various powers conferred upon them by the Provisional Order above mentioned. 8. The present application of the funds is not altogether in terms of the Founder's will, but the changes have been made under authority of Parliament. Reference is made to answer to question No. 2. 9. No pupils on Foundation. 10. None. 11. For benefits to old people: Number of vacancies, 4; number of applicants, 102. 12. This query does not apply to Gillespie's School. 13. Foundationers must be at least 55 years of age when elected. 14. The qualification for election as Foundationers is as follows, viz. : — (1.) Persons of the name of Gillespie, whatever part of Scotland they may come from. (2.) Persons belonging to Edinburgh and its suburbs. (3.) Failing applications from persons belonging to Edinburgh and its suburbs, persons belonging to Leith, Newhaven, and other parts of Mid-Lothian. (4.) Failing applications from all these places, persons coming from any part of Scotland. By the Provisional Order, 8 all applicants for admission to the Schools must pass an entrance examination suitable to the age of each applicant, and satisfactory to the Governors ;' and in selecting those to be admitted, regard is paid to the merits and attainments of each as tested by examination. 15. By the Provisional Order it is declared that the Governors shall be entitled to decline electing any man or woman whose election would in their opinion be undesirable, and they shall also be entitled at any time * See p. 568, etc. 558 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. to remove from the Foundation any one whose connection therewith should in their opinion terminate. (See section 6th.) 16. Does not apply. 17. Sixteen. All school bursars. 18. 635 boys and 591 girls; in all, 1226. Fees for the entire course.*' 1. Elementary Department, 3s. per Quarter. 2. Junior Department, 4s. „ 3. Senior Department, 5s. „ 19. No. 20. A statement of the last published account will be found on reference to pages 563-68. The accounts are quarterly prepared by the Accountant of the Hospital, Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., audited by an Audit Committee appointed by the Governors, and laid before the Governors at their quarterly meetings for their approval. There is also an annual account made out by the Accountant, and audited by the Audit Com- mittee, and thereafter it is laid before the Governors for approval. Furthermore, with the view of securing every publicity, an abstract of the accounts is printed annually for the Governors and every member of the Merchant Company, and any one who may wish to see it. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Does not apply. 2. In virtue of the authority conferred by the Provisional Order, Foundationers not boarded in the boarding-house by the Governors receive pensions of from £10 to £25 per annum. 3. No. 4. No boarding-house connected with the School. All are day pupils. 5. In the Day School the punishments are, — Extra work, loss of class marks, exclusion for a time from favourite game, and corporal punish- ment, which, however, is rarely resorted to. In minor offences the teacher in each class is left to use his own discretion ; but in serious cases the Head-Master determines. No record is kept as yet, as serious punish- ments are very rare. 6. None whatever. 7. Pupils in school during day ; at night with parents. 8. Does not apply. ' 9. (a) The amusements of the pupils are vrrious. (b) Yes. (c) Between two and three acres. 10. (a) Provisions are very strict, (b) Yes. The Medical Officer of Health for the City visits the Day School at least once in each quarter to ascertain the sanitary condition, and make a report to the Governors containing any suggestions he has to make. 11. Does not apply. 12. (1.) No Time-Table for 24 hours. But see Time under Answer 3, next page. (2.) Query does not apply to this school. * Pupils in the Elementary Department are charged 6d. per quarter for writing materials and the use of school-books ; those in the Junior Depart- ment, 9d. per quarter ; and those in the Senior Department, Is. per quarter. JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND SCHOOLS. 559 III. Instruction. 1. No Foundationers connected with the Schools. Parents of pupils better class of artisans. 2. No. 3. See p. 561. 4. See pp. 561-62. 5. Religious instruction is given daily in all the classes. It consists chiefly of the historical portions of Scriptures, with deduction of lessons. For moral training the Decalogue is taught in the Junior and Senior Departments. 6. Fifty. No pupil is allowed to pass to a higher class until after a satisfactory examination. Prizes are given and are awarded in the Senior Department by written examinations and by class marks for the school year, and in the Junior Department by class marks for the year. Good behaviour and general deportment are included. 7. Yes. See separate paper produced herewith for size of rooms, p. 562. The usual number of pupils in each class-room is from 20 to 100, accord- ing to its size. There is no library as yet, but it is under consideration. 8. The Head-Master of the day school is appointed by and holds his office at the pleasure of the Governors, and is responsible for the efficient working of his school. All the teachers and other persons under the Head-Master are appointed by him, are under his control, and they hold their offices at his pleasure, but their salaries are fixed and paid by the Governors. The Head-Master, besides superintending the classes generally, examines regularly all the classes to see that they are making fair progress. 9. A list of the teachers in the day school, with their salaries, is sent herewith (see p. 560). No portion of their salaries is derived directly from fees. They hold their offices during the pleasure of the Head-Master. 10. No. 11. Seep. 562. 12. Annual competitions with pupils from the other Merchant Company Schools. Moreover, Head-Masters can judge from previous experience in other schools. 13. None as yet. 14. No record. Would involve serious labour to ascertain what occu- pations pupils afterwards follow. General. The Governors have, in connection with the Directors of the other Merchant Company Hospitals, been the leaders in Hospital reform. They suggested, and at large expense got carried through, the Endowed Insti- tutions (Scotland) Act, 1869 ; and they subsequently obtained Provisional Orders, by which they have been enabled to make vast changes in Hospital management, as will be seen by the statement of results annexed to the schedule of George Watson's Hospital and College Schools. The Mer- chant Company Corporations have, with one exception, been the only institutions that have taken advantage of the above Act, — the one ex- ception being ' The Bathgate Academy,' which is connected with one of the estates belonging to the Merchant Company Corporations. The Provisional Orders so applied for and obtained met with the hearty approval of Mr. Forster, the Home Secretary (Mr. Bruce), and the Lord 560 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Advocate. These Provisional Orders were founded mainly upon the reports of the Education Commissioners. The Governors have but out; desire, namely, to administer the funds of the Founder with the greatest practical advantage to the cause of education as regards the school. It is of course to be kept in view as to James Gillespie's Hospital Endowment, that a part of the funds is applied to the support of old men and women, in terms of the Founder's express direction. The Governors court every inquiry into their management of the school and corporation, and will give careful attention to recommendations of Education Commissioners and leading educationalists. The change has been a great success. (Signed) A. Kirk Mackie, Secretary, 57, Hanover Street, Edinburgh. 22d November 1872. List of Teachers in James Gillespie's Schools, and their Salaries. 1. Mr. Robert Foulis, Head Master, ....... £250 (Besides an allowance of 2s. for each scholar on the Roll of the School.) 2. Mr. Thomas M. Hunter, 53, George iv. Bridge, ..... 40 3. Mr. Wm. Catto Munro, 6, South St. James' Street, .... 60 4. Mr. Hamilton Wylie, 46, West Richmond Street, .... 65 5. Mr. William Carmichael, 14, Livingstone Place, .... 6 6. Mr. George W. Davidson, M.A., 33, Dick Place, Lecturer on Physiology, One Half-Guinea per Lecture. 7. Miss Euphemia Chalmers, 3, Crichton Street, . . . .40 8. Miss Lillias Fergie, 3, Gray's Court, St. Leonards, .... 25 9. Miss Jessie M'Leod, 52, Commercial Place, Leith, . . . 25 10. Miss Agnes Fairbairu, 47, Hope Park End, ..... 13 11. Miss Elizabeth M'Leod, 6, Comely Green Place, .... 30 12. Miss Mary Slater, 21, Salisbury Street, ...... 30 13. Miss Hellen Storrie, 1, Mound Place, ...... 35 14. Mits Jane Alcorne, 10, Gladstone Terrace, ..... 35 15. Miss Isabella Campbell, 21, Brougham Place, ..... 40 16. Miss Isabella Lamb, 17, Livingstone Place, ..... 30 17. Miss Robina Hunter, 142, High Street, ...... 30 18. Miss Sarah Mireylees, 35, West Norton Place, ..... 30 19. Miss Janet Sime, 8, Wright's Houses, ...... 25 20. Miss Margaret Ann Kiddry, 2, Roxburgh Street, .... 40 21. Miss Annie Stevenson, 10, St. Anthony Tlace, ..... 30 22. Miss Harriet Jordan, 23, Rose Street, ...... 30 23. Miss Margaret Kay, 11, Grassmai-ket, ...... 30 24. Miss Janet Smith, 8, Hamiltou Place, ...... 30 25. Miss Elizabeth Mason, 5, Chessels' Court, ..... 35 26. Miss Elizabeth Stewart, 19, Panmure Place, ..... 40 27. Miss Madeline Campbell, 29, Luttou Place, ..... 40 28. Miss Janet Robertson, 1, Dumhiedykes Place, ..... 30 29. Miss Isabella Wallace, 138, Nicolson Street, ..... 30 30. Miss Jessie Boyd Foulis, 11, Sylvan Place, ..... 40 ' A I.'— Weekly Time-Table. Time. Subject. Time. Subject. 5 Arithmetic. 2 Geography. Grammar. 1.5 Drill. 3,j Etymology. 1 Singing. 1 Dictation. 2 Drawing. 1 Composition. 2 Reading. 1 Physiology. 3 Sewing. 0 English History. 5 Interval. 2 Scripture History. 2 Writing. 35 Total. JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND SCHOOLS. 501 1 cm Arithmetic. Arithmetic. Arithmetic. Arithmetic. Arithmetic. \ Dictation. Physiology. Writing. Composition. Writing. Dictation. Physiology. rH 1 CM i— t Interval. He* C^ rH 1 CM rH Boys. Drawing. Interval. Interval. Interval. Interval. •-«* GM rH 1 C^ to «.S « 2 p CM i— ( 1 rH History. CM rH 1 He* Boys. Drawing. Reading. Etymology. History. Reading. Etymology. History. CM Boys. Drawing. 10—11 10—10.20 | 10.20—11 Grammar. Analysis. Geography. Grammar. Analysis. Geography. Grammar. Analysis. Scripture History. Scripture History. Scripture History. o 7 o o rH He* OS He* o> o> Boys. Drill. Grammar. Girls. Sewing. Scripture History. Boys. Drill. Grammar. Girls. Sewing. Scripture History. Boys. Drill. Grammar. Girls. Sewing. Singing. Singing. Monday. Tuesday. Wednesday. Thursday. Friday. N.B. — All the classes are taught according to the sectional method, i.e. each class is taught by the same Master or Governess in all the branches that the pupils are required or qualified to learn. This Time-table is a specimen of the Time-tables of all the classes. Average age 13£. Subjects of Study. Reading.— -To read a passage in prose or verse with a distinct utterance : — Addison's Sir Roger De Coverley ; Campbell's Pleasures of Hope ; Scott's Lady of the Lake. Spelling and Dictation. — To write to dictation a paragraph from a book or newspaper. 2 N 562 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Grammar. — The elements ; to analyse and parse a simple passage from Scott's Lady of the Lake, Book I. ; and to tell the derivation of words, chielly those of Latin and Greek origin. Dr. Douglas's English Grammar. English History. — The Brunswick Period. Collier's Senior Class Book. Geography. — The outlines of the four quarters, with physical geography. Dr. M'Kay's Geography. Composition. — To write a story read twice ; or to compose on a subject about which they know something. Physiology. — The skeleton, structure, and composition of bone and muscles. Arithmetic. — To work mentally ; Vulgar and Decimal Fractions ; Proportion ; Profit and Loss. Text Book — Henry Smith's Senior Arithmetic. Extra. Algebra.— First Four Rules. — Colenso's. Geometry. — First 16 Propositions. Euclid. Botany. — Ideal Representation of Plant, with its parts or organs. Text Book — Professor Balfour's. Dimensions of the Several Class-rooms. Ground Floor— South Class-room, 37.9 x 25.3 x 15.0. Two Class-rooms on west side of Corridor, 33.6 x 13.3 x 12.3. Two North Class-rooms, 25.4 x 16.0 x 15.0. First Floor.— South Class-room, 37.9 x 25.3 x 15.0. Two Class-rooms on west side of Corridor, 33.6 x 13.3 x 10.9. One „ „ east „ 43.6 x 12.0 x 10.9. Two small Class-rooms, 12.2 x 11.6 x 10.9. North-west Class-room, 25.4 x 16.0 x 15.0. North-east „ 25.4 x 15.0 x 15.0. Second Floor. — South and North Class-rooms, 37.9 x 25.3 x 15.0. Two Class-rooms west side of Corridor, 33.6 x 13.3 x 10.6. One „ east „ 43.6 x 12.0 x 10.6. One „ „ „ 12.2 x 11.6 x 10.6. Number of Class-rooms, 19. Before the carrying through of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, the Governors had the advantage of reports from Mr. Simon S. Laurie ; and since the schools were established under the Provisional Orders, elaborate reports have been obtained from W. B. Hodgson, Esq., LL.D., on the general education, and from Professor Oakeley on Music. The pupils have also been subjected to com- petitive examinations, the examiner being the Rev. James Currie, Rector of the General Assembly's Normal Training College. The general result of all the examinations has been highly satisfactory, and the recommendations received from time to time are being carefully attended to. Copies of the Reports will be furnished if wished. Reports were also obtained on the Sewing Classes and Religious Instruction. List of Governors for 1872-73. John Clapperton, Esq., Master of the Merchant Company, Preses. Assistants of the Merchant Company. Messrs. Thomas Knox, 15, Hanover Street, Edinburgh. ,, James Lewis, 177, Canongate, Edinburgh. ,, John Purdie, 83, Princes Street, Edinburgh. ,, S. Adam, 131, Constitution Street, Leith. ,, John S. Shiels, Constitution Street, Leith. ,, Adam Beattie, 33, Chalmers Street, Edinburgh. „ David Dickson, 10, South St. Andrew Street, Edinburgh. ,, Josiah Livingston, 7, Roxburgh Place, Edinburgh. Charles Blair, 67, Gilmore Place, Edinburgh. William Hamilton, 100, George Street, Edinburgh. JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND SCHOOLS. 563 Messrs. Robert Gordon, Heriot Bridge, Edinburgh. Alexander Gowans, 25, George Street, Edinburgh. Treasurer of the Merchant Company. Robert Bryson, 66, Princes Street, Edinburgh. Minister of St. Stephen's Church. Rev. Maxwell Nicholson, D.D., 3, Regent Terrace, Edinburgh. Minister of St. Andrews Church. Rev. John Stuart, 7, Northumberland Street, Edinburgh. Elected by the Magistrates and Town Council. Bailie John Tawse, 11, Royal Terrace, Edinburgh. Councillors Robert Younger, Norton Place, Edinburgh. James Durham, 1, Leopold Place, Edinburgh. Thomas Methven, 15, Princes Street, Edinburgh. „ William Anderson, 18, Leopold Place, Edinburgh. Officials. Honorary Treasurer. Robert Bryson, Esq., 66, Princes Street, Edinburgh. Accountant. Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., 16, York Place, Edinburgh. Surgeon. Mr. James D. Gillespie, M.D., 10, Walker Street, Edinburgh. Secretary. A. Kirk Mackie, S.S.C. Land Adviser. Mr. Adam Curror, The Lee. Head-Master of Schools. Mr. Robert Foulis. Abstract of the Annual Account of the Treasurer of James Gillespie's" Hospital and Schools, from 1st Oct. 1870 to 1st Oct. 1871. Charge. Arrears depending at 1st October 1870, including £152, 2s. Id. of current Interest, . £255 7 4 Land Rents and Feu-duties, Crop and Year 1870, viz. :— Estate of Spylaw, £938 G 10° Feu-duties in Parish of Colinton, ..... 353 15 1 Do. at Gillespie Crescent, 100 0 0 Rents of Houses in Windmill Street, part of Estate of Mrs. Mary Ferrier or Sime, 44 8 0 £1,43G 9 11° Carry forward, £1,430 9 11* £255 7 4 564 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £1,436 9 11 G Interest on Money lent by the Hospital, .... 354 13 7 Property and Income-Tax for the Year to 1st October 1870, 30 10 1 51 11 6 James Gillespie's Schools — Fees received from Pupils, 510 0 3 Do. Do. received on account of Session 1871-72, being for First Quarter, ... 241 14 C Revenue, . 2,383 5 4 6 Money lent repaid, 2,400 0 0 Proceeds of twenty shares of the Stock of the Scottish Union Insurance Company sold, 58 0 0 Proportion of Balance of Residue of the Estate of the late John Grindlay, Esq., effeiring to the Hospital, received, • 32 9 4 Legacy bequeathed by the late Mr. John Caw, less Legacy Duty and Expense of Discharge, 171 2 7 Drawn from Bank — Balance due by the Royal Bank at 1st October 1870, . £763 3 1 Do. to Do. at 1st October 1871, . 85 12 2 848 15 3 Balance due to the Treasurer, Mr. Bryson, at the close of this Account, . 10 9 1° Sum equal to the Discharge, . £6,401 3 6 Discharge. Balance due to the Treasurer, Mr. Robert Bryson, as at 1st October 1870, brought from last Account, £68 12 ll 6 Interest paid on Money held by the Hospital, . . . £16 11 5 Public Burdens on Landed Estates, .... 84 1 4" Miscellaneous Payments, including outlay on account of Spylaw Mansion-house, etc., 40 17 8 Property and Income-Tax retained from Revenue of Hos- pital, 28 3 3 Treasurer's Quarterly Disbursements — Building and Repairs, viz. : — *Alterations on Old Hospital, fitting same for School, £1,784 15 7 * Do. on House, 1, Bruntsfield Place, do. for Hospital, . . . 210 13 1 Current Repairs and Upholding, . . 17 13 7 £2,013 2 3 Plenishing and Utensils — ^Fitting up Class-Rooms, Furnishings, etc., . £225 6 3 Current Furnishings, . 18 18 6 244 4 9 Maintenance and Medicine, including £700 paid to Pensioners, .... 1,003 12 8 Clothing, 50 5 3 Coals and Lights, 56 16 7 Fees and Salaries, viz.: — House Governor, £100; Matron, Servants, and Officer, and £63 pre- sented to Matron on her resignation after twenty years' service, . . £253 5 0 Carry forward, £253 5 0 £3,368 1 6 £169 13 8° £68 12 ll 6 JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND SCHOOLS. 565 Brought forward, £253 5 0 £3,368 1 6 £169 13 8 s Medical Officer, Clerk, and Accountant, . . . 75 10 0 Teachers, .... 1,215 18 1 1,514 13 1 Miscellaneous Payments, viz.: •Proportion of expense of Provisional Orders, etc, £207 11 6 School-books, . . . 270 17 11 Of this it is proposed to carry two-thirds, or say £180,* to Stock Ac- count as a permanent value of Books to be kept up. Business Charges and Out- lay, . . . . 45 15 7 Miscellaneous Payments, Taxes, Insurance, etc., Expense of collecting School Fees, Cleaning School, etc., . . . 225 3 8 749 8 8 Funeral Expenses, 3 19 6 £5,666 2 9 Whereof expended on alterations prior to the new valuation of the Hospital ground, and other Items added to Stock, marked * above, . . . 2,608 6 5 3,057 16 4 Expenditure, Sum required for Kesidue Duty and other charges on the Estate of the late Mrs. Mary Ferrier or Sime, bequeathed to the Hospital, year 1869-70, Arrears depending at 1st October 1871, transferred to next Account, viz. : Of Feu-duties, £52 1 10 Interest resting from Whitsunday 1871, on Money lent, 115 15 5 Rents of Spylaw, etc., 90 12 7 Property and Income-Tax, 62 5 3 £68 12 11' 2,608 6 5 3,227 10 0< 175 19 0 320 15 1 Sum of the Discharge, £6,401 3 6 Edinburgh, 4th December 1871.— Audited and Examined by Committee on Accounts. Richard G. Muir. Stepn. Adam. Eodem die. — Approved at General Meeting of Governors, and ordered to be Printed. Thomas Knox, P. Abstract of the Stock as at 1st October 1871. Dr. Cr. Sums in Loans, £7,100 0 0 Estates of Spylaw and Bonally, per valuation by Mr. Alexander Scott, and Meliorations, etc., since, . . B 1,502 12 8 Property consisting of two flats, No. 3 Windmill Stroet, acquired under Settlement of the late Mrs. Mary Ferrier or Sime, valued by Mr. MacGibbon at £495, . 196 0 0 Carry forward, £39,097 12 8 566 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dr. Cr. Brought forward, . . £39,097 12 8 BuildiDgs formerly Old Hospital and School House and Ground at Wright's Houses, per new valuation by Mr. MacGibbon, 25,776 0 0 Proportion of Cost of Provisional Orders obtained under the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, . . . 207 11 6 School-Books, proportion of Sum expended on these, to be kept at a permanent value of 180 0 0 James Gillespie's Schools. Amount of Fees received for Session 1871-72, prior to close of this Account, . £241 14 6 Sum impressed with the Governors by a Feuar in security of Feu-duty, with Interest resting, .... 142 2 0 Arrears and current Interest at 1st October 1871, . . 320 15 1 Balance due to the Eoyal Bank at 1st October 1871, . 85 12 2 Balance due the Treasurer, at do., .... 10 9 I s £479 17 9 6 Net Stock at 1st October 1871, .... 65,102 1 5 6 £65,581 19 3 £65,581 19 3 Net Stock at 1st October 1871, as above, . . £65,102 1 5 6 Do. at 1st October 1870, .... 55,034 6 4 s Increase this year, when compared with the last, . £10,067 15 1 Report by the Accountant on the Accounts of James Gillespie's Hospital for the year from 1st Oct. 1870 to 1st Oct. 1871. I have examined and checked the Accounts of the Hospital for the year to 1st October 1871, and prepared Abstracts thereof, and of the Stock Account of the Hospital, as at that date, submitted herewith ; and with refei'ence to these I have to report as follows: — I. The Income of the year has consisted of — 1. Bental of the Landed Estates, Feu-Duties, etc., . £1,436 9 11 s Less— Public Burdens, £84 1 4 6 Other Charges, 40 17 8 Proportion of Property-Tax, . . . . 21 6 4 Deduct, 146 5 4 s Net, £1,290 4 7 2. Other Eevenue from Interests, Dividends, etc., . £436 15 2 Less — Income-Tax, 6 16 11 429 18 3 £1,720 2 10 Deduct — 3. Interest paid on Money held by the Hospital, 16 11 5 Free Eevenue, £1,703 11 5 4. School Fees for Session 1870-71, .... 510 0 3 Besides the above, the sum of £241, 14s. 6d. has been received for Fees for First Quarter of next Session 1871-72. In all, £2,213 11 8 II. The Expenditure has been — Building and Repairs, £2,013 2 3 Whereof for Alterations on School House and Hospital, fitting them for present purposes, . 1,995 8 8 Current Repairs and Upholding, . . . £17 13 7 Carry forward, £17 13 7 £2,213 11 8 JAMES GILLESPIE'S HOSPITAL AND SCHOOLS. 567 Brought forward, £17 13 7 £2,213 11 8 Plenishing and Utensils, . . . £244 4 9 Whereof for School Fittings, Desks, etc., .... 225 6 3 18 18 6 Maintenance and Medicine, 1,003 12 8 Clothing, 50 5 3 Coals and Lights, 56 16 7 Fees and Salaries in connection with Schools and Hospital or Boarding-House, Medical and other Office-Bearers, including £100 Betiring Allowance to House-Govefnor, now deceased, and £63 pre- sented to Matron on her resignation after 20 years' service, 1,544 13 1 Miscellaneous Payments, including Taxes, Insur- ance, Expense of Collecting School Fees, Cleaning Schools, Business Charges, etc., . £478 10 9 Whereof proportion of expense of Provisional Orders, including Printing, Advertising, etc., car- ried to Stock, .... £207 11 6 270 19 3 School Books, £270 17 11 Of which it has been arranged to carry to Stock Account as a per- manent value of Books to be kept up, two-thirds, or, . . . 180 0 0 90 17 11 Funeral Expenses, 3 19 6 3,057 16 4 There has thus been an Excess of Expenditure over Income of £844 4 8 Note. — The above Expenditure includes £100 retiring allowance to the late House- Governor, now deceased, and £63 presented to the late Matron on her resignation. This Expenditure will not occur next year, £163 0 0 It is expected that next year there will be an increase of Income from School Fees of about 450 0 0 £613 0 0 In the year 1874, a Feu-duty, at present amounting to £100 per annum, will be raised to a maximum amount of £400, or an increase of 300 0 0 £913 0 0 III. The result on the year on the Stock Account is in favour of the Hospital, £10,067 15 1 Arising thus — 1. In respect of the feuing of the Ground at Wright's Houses, it has been deemed advisable to have a new valuation at this time of the Hospital and School Build- ings and Ground ; and the new valuation obtained from Mr. MacGibbon, Archi- tect, amounts, as in the Stock Account, to ... £25,776 0 0 These stood in the Stock Account at 1st October 1870 as follows : — Building presently occupied as the Hospital, and Ground, with Enclosure Walls, etc., £11,806 5 5 Do. do., formerly School, do., 864 4 10 £12,670 10 3 Carry forward, £12,670 10 3 £25,776 0 0 568 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £12,670 10 3 £25,776 0 0 Expended prior to New Valuation for Alterations on School-House and Hospital, fitting them for present purposes, £1,995, 8s. 8d., and School Fittings, £225, 6s. 3d., as on page 567, . . 2,220 14 11 14,891 5 2 Increase on Valuation, £10,884 14 10 2. Proportion of Balance of Residue of the Estate of the late John Grindlay, Esq., effeiring to the Hospital, received, . . . 32 9 4 3. Legacy bequeathed by the late Mr. John Caw,*received, . . 171 2 7 4. Interest due by the Hospital decreased by 0 2 0 £11,088 8 9 Less— 5. Sum required for Residue Duty and other charges on the Estate of the late Mrs. Mary Ferrier or Sime, bequeathed to the Hospital 1869-70, £175 19 0 6. Stock of the Scottish Union Insurance Company, part of Mrs. Sime's Estate, valued last year at £58 10 0 Realized when sold this year, . 58 0 0 7. Excess of Expenditure over the Income of the year, as on preceding page, 844 4 8 0 10 0 1,020 13 8 Sum as above, £10,067 15 1 Edinburgh, 30th November 1871. (Signed) Ja. M. Macakdrew. MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. i 569 MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL ' AND 'EDIN- BURGH EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION/ EDINBURGH. The Hospital or Boarding-House is at Nos. 9 and 10, Royal Crescent, Edinburgh. The School or Institution is at 70 and 72, Queen Street, Edinburgh. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1695. The Company of Merchants of the City of Edinburgh, and Mrs. Mary Erskine, widow of James Hair, druggist, Edinburgh, with the assistance of other benefactors, who had the privilege of presenting Foundationers in proportion to their respective subscriptions, some of them being limited as to the children whom they were entitled to present. 2. In the Act of Parliament incorporating the Hospital, it is stated that the above-mentioned parties had erected an Hospital for maintaining and educating poor young female children. Statutes and rules for the regulation and management of the Hospital were framed in 1702, and approved of by the contributors ; and these have been at various times altered and amended, the different editions being dated 1702, 1731, 1785, 1804, 1854, and 1868. In the statutes of 1702 it is stated that the persons elected shall be the children or grandchildren and daughters of such who are or were of the order and calling of merchants, burgesses of Edin- burgh, or have been Governors of or benefactors to the Hospital ; the right of patrons to present any girls who are objects of charity, unless otherwise restricted, being reserved. The Provisional Order after-mentioned, how- ever, removes all restrictions as to children whom patrons are entitled to present. In June 1868, the Governors, with the concurrence of the representatives of the original donors and contributors, resolved to admit a limited number of day boarders to receive instruction along with the resident pupils in all the branches of education conducted in the house. In 1870 a Provisional Order was, on the application of the Governors, obtained from Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State, under authority of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 18G9, by which the Governors were, inter alia, empowered to convert the Hospital into a day school and to board out a portion of the Foundationers, and maintain the others in boarding-houses to be established by them, and to establish other day schools. Copies of the statutes and the Provisional Order of 1870 may be obtained from the Secretary and Solicitor of the Governors, Mr. Alexander Kirk Mackie, S.S.C., 57, Hanover Street, Edinburgh. 570 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 3. The sum originally contributed by the Merchant Company, Mary Erskine, and the other benefactors, for the purposes of the Hospital, was sufficient for a house and the comparatively few inmates. The funds, according to the last published statement, sent herewith, amounted to £131,953, 6s. l 6 d., and are principally invested in land and house pro- perty. The gross revenue, including school fees, conform to the above statement, was £12,862, 19s. 2 6 d., and the net revenue of the Foundation £4879, 13s. 2 6 d* 4. Reference is made to Answers 1 and 2 as to the constitution of the Trust. The management is in the Master, Treasurer, and two Assistants of the Merchant Company, five members of the Town Council, three of the clergymen of the city and suburbs, the Earl of Mar, and nine persons elected by the Merchant Company — one of whom must be a member of the College of Physicians, — in all, 22. For the names of the present Governors, see page 581-82 hereof. 5. No. 6. The Master of the Merchant Company, who is a Governor of the Hospital and Preses ex officio, is elected by the Company, who also annually elect other nine of the Governors — eight from their own body, and one from the College of Physicians. The five representatives from the Town Council, and the three from the clergymen of the city and suburbs, are annually elected by these bodies ; and the Earl of Mar is Life Governor in virtue of the statute, that there shall always be one Governor of the name of Erskine. 7. The Governors, inter alia, manage the estate of the Hospital, and settle and direct the government of the Hospital and whole affairs relating thereto, and make bye-laws and rules for the better administration of the Hospital and affairs thereof, and fix from time to time the age for election of Foundationers and that at which they may be required to leave. The Governors elect the Head Master of the day school, who holds his office during the pleasure of the Governors, and is responsible for the efficient working of the school. The Governors also judge as to the time and way of carrying out the various powers conferred upon them by the Provisional Order above-mentioned in regard to bursaries, scholarships, etc., and, generally, in regard to the management of the day school. 8. The present application of the funds is not altogether in terms of the intentions of the original donors and contributors ; but their representa- tives have unanimously approved of the part diversion, which was also made under the authority of Parliament. Reference is made to the answer to Question No. 2. 9. Girls, 65. Of whom 33 are fatherless ; of whom 24, though not fatherless, are children of decayed and necessitous families, — this being a necessary qualification. Eight have been elected entirely owing to merit, as tested by competitive examination, in terms of the Provisional Order, and without reference to their circumstances. 10. None. 11. This Hospital is somewhat peculiar, inasmuch as the Governors do not elect all the Foundationers — most of them being presented by the representatives of the original donors and contributors. The Master and Assistants of the Merchant Company, in filling up four of their vacant presentations in July last, had 12 applications by persons who were all either children or grandchildren of members of the Company. There has been no election by the Governors since November 1869, the Provisional Order having directed that the number they were entitled to elect should * See Abstract of Accounts, pp. 582-590. MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 571 be reduced from 34 to 20. At last election by the Governors there were 16 applicants for three vacancies. 12. 1 Daughter of a merchant in very extensive business who had become bankrupt. 1 Do. of a commission merchant who had died without leaving an adequate provision for his widow and children. 1 Do. of a merchant who had been unfortunate in business. Since the above date, nine girls have been presented by private patrons. These have produced to the Governors satisfactory evidence of straitened circumstances. ] 3. When admitted to the Foundation, they must be of the age of 9 and under that of 16 years on 1st October of year of election. They leave at 17 years of age ; but in cases of election by merit, or where certi- ficate of high merit is obtained from the Head Master, they may remain one year longer. 14. The qualification for admission on the Foundation is stated in Answer 2. By the Provisional Order, however, the children and grand- children of those who are only burgesses are no longer to have a pre- ference. Foundationers, prior to admission, undergo a medical examination. By the Provisional Order, all applicants for admission either to the Foundation or the day school must pass an entrance examination suit- able to the age of each applicant and satisfactory to the Governors ; and in selecting those to be admitted, regard is to be paid to the merits and attainments of each as tested by the examination. 15. By the Provisional Order it is declared that the Governors shall be entitled to decline electing any girl whose admission would in their opinion be prejudicial to the interest of the other children, and that they shall also be entitled at any time to remove from the Foundation any of the present or future Foundationers or presentees whose continued connection therewith would in their opinion have a like effect. 16. Each Foundationer, except those elected by merit, on leaving, receives £9, 6s. 8d. and some clothing ; and it is the duty of the Matron and of the Treasurer to endeavour to procure situations for such as require them. The four presentees of the Mar family receive £5 extra. 17. Twenty-seven. 18. 1178. Fees for the entire course. 1. Elementary Department . . £0 12 6 per Quarter. 2. Junior do., Lower Division 110 do. Do. do., Upper do. 1 11 6 do. 3. Senior do., . . . .2 0 0 do. Do. do., Advanced . 2 10 0 do. 19. No. 20. A statement of the last published account will be found on refer- ence to pages 56 to 60 of the Merchant Company Annual Report, here- with sent. The accounts are quarterly prepared by the Accountant of the Hospital, Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., audited by an Audit Com- mittee appointed by the Governors, and laid before the Governors at their quarterly meetings for their approval. There is also an annual account made out by the Accountant, and audited by the Audit Committee, and thereafter it is laid before the Governors for approval. Furthermore, with the view of securing every publicity, an abstract of the accounts is 572 ENDOWED SCHOOL (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. printed annually for the Governors and every member of the Merchant Company, and any one who may wish to see it. The accounts for the financial year just closed will be sent when printed, if wished. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. L Girls, 33. 2. Foundationers who are boarded with their parents or relatives receive an allowance of £21 a year, and those boarded with strangers receive £28 a year. These allowances do not include clothing and medical attendance, which are provided by the Governors. The Governors have had in view so to fix the sum for board as that parents and relatives should not make a profit by the children residing with them. 3. No. 4. A large discretion is given to the Matron to grant liberty as in private families. Foundationers with friends in town can remain with them from Saturday morning till Monday morning. The principal holidays are eight days at Christmas, two months in autumn, and a week in the end of April. 5. (1) Day School : At the great day school there is not any punish- ment except the entry of the defaulter's name in a book. (2) Boarding - House : The Foundationers are, as a punishment, confined during play hours. 6. None. 7. The Foundationers attend the day school during the day, and those not boarded out are in the boarding-house by night, under the care of the Matron and two resident Governesses. 8. Room N °* h 16-0 x 1 9-e} x 12 ' 6 higb ' with 8 beds = 536 cubic feet per pupil 2. 18-0 X 15-0 X 12-6 „ 5 „ = 675 „ 3. 17-0 X 12-8 X 10-6 „ 4 „ = 559 „ 4. 18-4 X 14-9 X 10-6 „ 4 „ = 981 „ 5. 16-0 X 12*0 X 8-9 „ 3 „ = 576 „ 6. 30-0 X 15'6 X 12 0 „ 9 „ = 620 „ 7. 16-6 X 13'0 X 10-6 „ 4 „ = 574 „ 8. 11-0 X 9-6 X 10 6 „ 2 „ = 546 „ 9. 18-6 X 15-8 X 10-6 „ 7 „ = 433 „ Each pupil has a separate bed. 9. The amusements are dancing, music, etc. The Foundationers are left as free as pupils at other schools. There is no play-ground connected with the boarding-house, the present building being occupied temporarily for that purpose. 10. Cleanliness is rigidly attended to. The Medical Officer of Health for the City (Dr. Littlejohn) visits the day school at least once in each quarter to ascertain the sanitary condition, and report to the Governors any suggestions he has to make ; and the Medical Officer of the Hospital reports twice a year to the Governors as to the condition of the boarding- house. The sanitary arrangements have been reported by these gentlemen as very good. (Recent reports can be sent if wished.) 11. There have only been two deaths during the last ten years. 12. At day school from 9 till half-past 3. Dinner, tea, preparation of lessons, and bed. The diet has been regulated by the Medical Officer of the Establishment on a liberal scale. MERCHANT MATDEN HOSPITAL. 573 III. Instruction. 1. Those elected by the Governors are chiefly daughters or grand- daughters of members of the Merchant Company. Those presented by patrons have been generally the daughters of professional men in reduced circumstances ; but the patrons are in no way restricted to any particular class. 2. No. 3. See pp. 57G-81. 4. English. — Hamlet, parsing and explanation of difficult passages ; reading of whole. English Composition (Pryde's). Whole of Collier's British History. Geography : the World (Political and Physical), with Map Drawing. Essays once a week, and towards end of session a special Essay on any subject connected with Industrial Museum. Outlines of British Government (Whately). Outlines of Political Economy (Adam Smith). German. — Weisse's German Life and Manners, three times a week. Translation from Anderson's Bilderbuch three times a week ; towards end of session a Poem or two of Schiller's committed to memory. French. — Chardenal's Idionis, L'avare le Cid ; towards end of session a Fable or two of La Fontaine's committed to memory. French Essays and Letters. Latin. — Edinburgh Academy Delectus. Caesar, about 12 chapters. Arnold's Latin Prose Composition, 12 exercises. Arithmetic. — All the ordinary rules. Geometry. — Two Books of Euclid. Algebra. — As far as Quadratics. Pianoforte, Singing, Dancing, etc. 5. The Pupils receive instruction in the Life, Parables, and Miracles of Christ ; and generally in Old and New Testament History. 6. (a) 40. (b) Progress, (c) Yes. (d) For proficiency, progress, and excellence. 7. Yes. The class-rooms are of various sizes ; average about 30 x 19 feet; height about 14 feet. The hall accommodates about 600. A beginning has been made to the accumulation of a library. 8. The Head-Master is appointed by and holds his office at the pleasure of the Governors, and is responsible for the efficient working of his school. All the Teachers and other persons under the Head-Master are appointed by him, and are under his entire control, and they hold their offices at his pleasure, but their salaries are fixed and paid by the Governors. The Head-Master lectures once a week on English Literature, and the rest of his time is devoted to superintendence. 9. A list of the Teachers in the day school, with their salaries, is sent herewith. (See p. 574.) No portion of their salaries is derived directly from fees. They hold their offices during the pleasure of the Head-Master. 10. No. 11. See p. 574. 12. The Head-Master has had experience of a number of young ladies' schools in Edinburgh, and has no hesitation in comparing his Institution very favourably with them. The pupils compete annually with the girls attending the other Merchant Company schools. 13. 14. A record of old pupils is kept, but not of their occupations. Most of the Foundationers who require to do anything become governesses on leaving the Hospital. 574 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. General. The Governors have, in connection with the Directors of the other Merchant Company Hospitals, been the leaders in Hospital reform. They suggested, and at large expense got carried through, the Endowed Insti- tutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, and they subsequently obtained Provisional Orders, by which they have been enabled to make vast changes in Hospital management, as will be seen by the statement of results annexed to the Schedule of George Watson's Hospital and College Schools. The Mer- chant Company Corporations have, with one exception, been the only institutions that have taken advantage of the above Act, — the one excep- tion being ' The Bathgate Academy,' which is connected with one of the estates belonging to the Merchant Company Corporations. The Pro- visional Orders so applied for and obtained met with the hearty ap- proval of Mr. Forster, the Home Secretary (Mr. Bruce), and the Lord Advocate. These Provisional Orders were founded mainly upon the reports of the Education Commissioners. The Governors have but one desire, namely, to administer the funds of the Founders with the greatest practical advantage to the cause of education. They court every inquiry into their management of the schools and corporations, and will give careful attention to recommendations of Education Commissioners and leading educationalists. The change has been a great success. A. Kirk Mackie, S.S.C., 22d November 1872. Secretary. Before the carrying through of the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, 1869, the Governors had the advantage of reports from Mr. Simon S. Laurie ; and since the schools were established under the Provisional Orders, elaborate reports have been obtained from W. B. Hodgson, Esq., LL.D., on the general education, and from Professor Oakeley on Music. The pupils have also been subjected to competitive examinations, — the examiner being the Rev. James Currie, Rector of the General Assembly's Normal Training College. The general result of all the examinations has been highly satisfactory, and the recommendations received from time to time are being carefully attended to. Copies of the reports will be furnished if wished. Reports were also obtained on the Sewing Classes and Religious Instruction. Salaries of Teachers. Head Master, English, David Pryde, M.A. (£400 a year, and 5s. for each pupil other than a Foundationer), . . . . say Jacob Simmins, 6 hours Robert Mathewson, M.A., William Muirhead, James Dick, William Kilgour, John Lamb, M.A., . Arithmetic and Mathematics, )? Writing and Bookkeeping, ?» French, n German, Arthur Livingstone, William Laing Patterson, James Watson, . * George H. Watson, . Auguste Evrard, B.A., C. H. Schneider, C. F. Fischart, F. H. Weisse, 4 hours 2 „ 6 „ 4 „ 2 „ £680 210 210 210 150 120 120 200 110 130 60 250 200 80 110 MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 575 Latin, William Ferguson, ..... 5 hours, £1.00 Drawing, James Coutts, 200 ,, James and George Ferrier, . . . 1 ,, 95 Music, *F. W. Bridgman, 4 ,, 320 * William Adlington, „ „ 320 ♦Walter Hately, „ „ 320 ,, *A. C. Mackenzie, ,, 320 Singing, Arthur S. Edmunds, . . . . 3 ,, 250 ,, Joseph Geoghegan, n n 196 Dancing, George d'Egville, 2 quarters, . . . 6 ,, 249 Drill, William Donnelly, 2 quarters, ... 40 Miss Key, Lady Superintendent, £157, 10s. French, Annie Adamson, 6 hours £60 English, Catherine Hart, ,, 60 Ellen Turnbull, „ 60 ,, Agnes Grant, ,, 55 ,, Helen Harper, ,, 55 Sewing, Jane Mitchell, . . . . . 60 Drawing, Janette Walker, ,, 80 Managing, Robina Palmer, ,, 40 ii Isabella H. Neil, „ 50 ,, Mary Jane Clark, ,, 40 ,, Catherine R. Murray, .... ,, 40 „ Isabella T. Gibson, „ 40 ,, Margaret Glass, ,, 50 „ Annie C. Aimers, ..... ,, 40 „ Mina Learmonth, ,, 40 ,, Georgina Stevenson, ,, 40 Helen H. Ford, „ 40 ., f Janet Ferrier, „ 20 ,, fMaggie Donald, ,, 20 ,, f Jemima Millan, ,, 20 „ fEHza Marshall, ..... „ 20 ,, fJane Ritchie, ,, 20 Music, Elizabeth Hart, ,, 60 ,, Mary Jane Smith, ,, 50 ,, I. Cairnie, ,, 40 ,, Jessie Smellie, ,, 40 ,, Maggie A. Russell, ,, 40 ,, Helen Dunn, ...... ,, 40 ,, Kate A. Ross, ,, 40 ,, Annie Campbell, ,, 40 ,, Hannah M'Naughton, . . . . ,, 40 ,, Isabella Mackenzie, ,, 40 ,, Helen Holdway, ,, 40 ,, Jane Watson, ,, 40 Two Dancing Assistants, .... ,, 51 David Pryde. * In addition to this, each Music Master gets £8 for giving a weekly lesson in the Theory of Music during last two quarters. f These aro advanced pupil-governesses, and in addition to their salaries get instruc- tion in some of the higher branches. 570 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. TIME-TABLE. Senior Department. Classes. Monday. 10-1 1 11-19 1 9-1 1 -9 9 3 I. German Drawing Arithmetic Writing Latin or English Dictation II. German Drawing Arithmetic • • Writing Latin or English Dictation III. German CI • Sewing Arithmetic Drawing Latin English IV. German Drawing Arithmetic English Writing V. Drawing German Dictation Arithmetic English Singing VI. Writing German Drawing Arithmetic Jiingiisn Singing VII. Writing Arithmetic French English Dictation Drawing VIII. Singing Arithmetic French English Dictation Drawing IX. Singing Dictation French English Drawing Arithmetic X. Drawing Writing English French Dictation Arithmetic XI. Arithmetic Singing English French Drawing Dictation XII. Arithmetic Singing English English Writing Dictation XIII. French English Drawing Dictation Sewing Writing XIV. French English Dictation Writing Sewing XV. French English Writing Singing Play XVI. English French Writing Singing English Sewing XVII. English French Sewing English Arithmetic XVIII. English French Sewing Drawing Arithmetic English Classes. Tuesday. 9-10. 10-11. 11-12. 12-1. 1-2. 2-3. I. Lecture Singing Arithmetic French Dancing & English Latin II. Lecture Singing Arithmetic French Dancing or English Latin III. Lecture Dancing Arithmetic French Writing English IV. Lecture Arithmetic French Drawing English Singing y # Lecture Arithmetic French Sewing English Writing VI. Lecture Arithmetic French Drawing English Singing vii. Lecture German Sewing English Singing VIII. Lecture German Writing English Sewing IX. Lecture German Writing English Sewing Arithmetic X. German Dancing English Sewing Singing Arithmetic XI. German Writing English Arithmetic Dictation XII. German Drawing English Arithmetic Drawing Sewing XIII. Arithmetic English Drawing Singing Dictation XIV. Arithmetic ! English Dancing Singing Writing Drawing XV. Drawing English Sewing Writing- Arithmetic XVI. English Drawing Dancing Writing Arithmetic English XV J I. English Sewing- Singing Dancing Play Drawing XVIII. English Writing Singing Dancing English MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 577 TIME-TABLE. Senior Department— Continued. Classes. I. II. III. IV. V. VI. VII. VIII. IX. X. XI. XII. XIII. XIV. XV. XVI. XVII. XVIII. Wednesday. 9-10. German German German Sewing Writing Writing Sewing or Dictation Drawing Arithmetic Arithmetic French French French English English English 10-11. Drawing Drawing Sewing German German German Arithmetic Arithmetic Dancing- Writing Singing Singing English English English French French French 11-12. Arithmetic Arithmetic Arithmetic Drawing Drawing Dancing French French French English English English Sewing Sewing Dancing W riting Dictation English 12-1. Sewing Writing or Latin Singing Latin or Singing Latin or Writing Latin or Drawing English English English French French French Drawing Dictation Dictation Sewing Arithmetic Arithmetic 1-2. Latin Latin Latin English English English Dancing Dancing Drawing Dictation Drawing Dictation Arithmetic Arithmetic Play English Writing Sewing English English English Arithmetic Arithmetic Arithmetic Drawing Drawing Writing Sewing Writing Sewing Singing English Classes. II. III. IV. V. VI. VII. VIII. IX. X. XI. XII. XIII. XIV. XV. XVI. XVII. XVIII. Thursday. 9-10. French French French Sewing Drawing Sewing German German German Writing Arithmetic Arithmetic Singing Singing Drawing English English English 10-11. Singing Singing Drawing Arithmetic Arithmetic Arithmetic Sewing Dictation Sewing German German German English English English Dancing English Writing 11-12. Arithmetic Arithmetic Arithmetic French French French Dictation Writing Writing English English English Dancing Dancing Sewing Drawing Dictation Drawing 12-1. Writing Sewing Writing Dancing Dancing Drawing English English English Sewing Dictation Drawing Sewing Dictation Arithmetic Arithmetic Sewing Play ' 1-2. Dancing or Latin Dancing or Latin Latin English English English Singing Sewing Dictation Singing Drawing Writing Drawing Sewing Dictation English Arithmetic Arithmetic 2-3. English English English Writing Singing Singing Arithmetic Arithmetic Dancing Dancing Drawing Writing Sewing Drawing English 578 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. TIME-TABLE. Senior Department— Continued. Classes. Friday. 10-1 1 11-19 X J. 1 _ . 19-1 J. - - X. 9-3 I. German Singing Arithmetic Latin or Latin or Lecture fcewing Drawing II. German bulging Arithmetic Latin or Latin or Lecture Sewing Drawing III. German Dancing Arithmetic Latin or T J." _ Latin or Lecture Singing Drawing IV. Sewing German Drawing Latin or Hmglisn Lecture Singing V. — German Drawing Latin or Writing English Lecture VI. Writing German Dancing Latin or English Lecture Sewing VII Writing Arithmetic French English Singing Lecture vni. Singing Arithmetic French English Dictation Lecture IX. Singing Drawing French English Sewing or Lecture Dictation X. Drawing Dancing English French Singing Sewing Lecture XI. Arithmetic Writing English French XII. Arithmetic Sewing English French Writing XIII. French English Sewing Drawing Arithmetic Writing XIV. French English "Writing Dictation Arithmetic Drawing XV. French English Dancing Arithmetic Dictation XVI. English French English Arithmetic Writing English XVII. English French Singing Dancing Writing XVIII. English French Singing Dancing Sewing English MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 579 TIME-TABLE. Junior Department. Classes. Monday. 9-10. 10-11. 11-12. 12-1. 1-2. 2-3. f. k_?c yv i it--. Sin cn n d" ■ Writi no- & If 11 Ulll&L J—J 1 J i_ I in 1 1 l J 1.1 ^ HO LI Arithm'c II. Dancing Play Singing- Writing & English English Arithm'c III. English Dancing Dictation English Writing & Sewing Arithm'c iv. Writing & English English Sewing Singing Arithm'c v. Writing & English English Sewing Singing Arithm'c VI. Sewing English English Play Dictation Writing & Arithm'c VII. English English English Dancing French Arithmetic VTTT V 111. Sewing Dictation Arithmetic English English French IX. English English English Dictation Sewing or Writing Dictation A. English English Arithmetic Sewing XI. Writing Arithmetic Sewing English English Classes. Tuesday. 9-10. 10-11. 11-12. 12-1. 1-2. 2-3. I. Writing & French Play Dictation English English Arithm'c II. Writing & French Play Sewing English English Arithm'c III. English French Dictation English Writing & Sewing Arithm'c IV. French Writing & English English Dictation Dancing Arithm'c V. French Writing & English English Dictation Dancing Arithm'c VI. French English English Dictation Play Writing & Arithm'c VII. English Sewing English English Dictation Writing VIII. Dancing English Arithmetic Writing English Singing IX. English Sewing or English Play French English Dictation X. Writing English English Arithmetic Sewing XI. Arithmetic Sewing English English 580 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. TIME-TABLE. Junior Department — Continued. Classes. Wednesday. Q-1 0 10 11 11 19 19 1 1 9 z-o. I. TV Dancing Sewing Play Writing & Jiingnsn _ riUghsh Arithm'c II. Dancing Play Dictation Writing & English English Arithm'c HI. singing Dancing xjiigii&n >\ riling a -T lay X-i 11 gl La 11 Arithm'c IV. Writing & English English Play Singing Sewing Arithm'c V. Writing & English English Play Singing Arithni'c VI. English English Singing Sewing Writing & Dancing Arithm'c VII. English English Play _ English French Arithmetic VIII. Sewing English Dictation Arithmetic English French IX. English English English Dancing Sewing Writing X. English English Arithmetic Dictation Dancing XI. Writing Arithmetic Sewing Dictation English Classes. Thursday. 9-10. 10-11. 11-12. 12-1. 1-2. 2-3. I. Dictation French Singing Writing & English English Arithm'c II. French Singing Writing & English English Arithm'c III. French Sewing English English Writing & Arithm'c IV. Writing & English English French Dictation Arithni'c V. Writing & English English French Play Dictation Arithni'c VI. English English Writing & French Dictation Arithm'c VII. English Dancing English English Dictation VIII. Dancing Dictation Arithmetic English English Writing IX. English English English Sewing or French Singing Dictation X. Writing English English Arithmetic Sewing XI. Dictation Arithmetic English English English MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 581 TIME-TABLE. Junior Department— Continued. Classes. I. II. III. IV. V. VI. VII. VIII. IX. X. XI. Friday. 9-10. Sewing English Writing & Arithm'c Writing & Arithm'c English English Sewing or Dictation Dancing Writing 10-11. 11-12. Dictation Play Play English English English English Sewing or Dictation English English Arithmetic Sewing Dictation Dictation English English English Sewing Dictation English English Sewing 12-1. Writing & Arithm'c Writing & Arithm'c English Dictation Play Dictation English English Dictation Arithmetic English 1-2. English English Writing & Arithm'c Sewing Sewing Dancing French Arithmetic Dancing Sewing English 2-3. English English Dancing Danciug English Writing French English List of the Governors of the Merchant Maiden Hospital and Edinburgh Educational Institution for 1872-73. John Clapperton, Esq., 371, High Street, Master of the Merchant Company, Preses. Elected by Master and Assistants of Merchant Company. Messrs. Thomas Knox, 15, Hanover Street. ,, Robert Bryson, 66, Princes Street. „ James Lewis, 177, Canongate. Elected by the Merchant Company. Messrs. George Vallance, 1, Gayfield Square. „ Thomas Swanston, 35, Gilmore Place. ,, William Cotton, 100, Princes Street. ,, John Weir, 7, Roxburgh Place. ,, John Kay Wishart, 20, Queen Street, Leith. „ James Falshaw, 26, Castle Street. ,, Thomas J. Boyd, Tweeddale Court. „ James Craig, 33, Manor Place. Dr. Robert Paterson, 32, Charlotte Street, Leith. Elected by the Ministers of Edinburgh and Suburbs. The Rev. William Smith, D.D., Minister of St. Ninian's, Manse, I^eith Mount. The Rev. R. Horne Stevenson, D.D., Minister of St. George's, 9, Oxford Terrace. The Rev. Jamks MacNair, Minister of Canongate, 3, St John Street, 582 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Elected by the Magistrates and Town Council of Edinburgh. Bailie Howden, 6, Brandon Street. Councillor James Crighton, 1, Kerr Street. . „ J. J. Muirhead, 62, Princes Street. „ Thomas Robertson, 57, Frederick Street. ,, Mitchell. The Right Hon. The Earl of Mar, Life Governor. Officials. Treasurer. Mr. Robert Walker, 12, Bank Street. Secretary. A. Kirk Mackie, S.S.C. Accountant. Mr. James M. Macandrew, C.A., York Place. Land Adviser. Mr. Adam Curror, The Lee, Edinburgh. Architect. Mr. David Macgibbon, 89, George Street. Surgeon. Andrew Wood, M.D., F.R.C.S.E., 9, Darnaway Street. Head-Master of Schools. Mr. David Pryde, M.A. Abstract of the Annual Account of the Treasurer of the Merchant Maiden Hospital from 1st October 1870 to 1st October 1871. Charge. Arrears depending at 1st October 1870, including current Interest on Bond, brought from last Account, £230 10 103 Land Eents and Feu-duties, Crop and Year 1870, viz. : — The Aberdeenshire Estate, £4,559 1 7 E Do. Feu-duties purchased up, £22, 7s. lid., and Ground sold, £576, 3s. 6d., .... 598 11 5 Do. Proceeds of Sale of Materials of Old Houses, 340 0 0 The Eoxburghshire Estate, 1,044 9 8 £5,603 11 36 Interest on Bond, £80, and Dividends on Formartine and Buchan Bailway, £82, 4s., with Dr. Schaw's Annuity, £5, 167 4 0 Kevenue from the late George Grindlay's Trust-estate, 1,189 5 0 Incidental Sums, 11 2 6 Property and Income-Tax retained from the Kevenue of the year to 1st October 1870, repayable by Government, . . . .... 12 14 0 Carry forward, £6,983 16 9 6 £1,169 2 3 3 MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 583 Brought forward, £6,983 16 9 6 £1,169 2 3 s Proceeds of Sale of the Building formerly called the Merchant Maiden Hospital, .... 22,732 11 6 And Interest on price received, .... 142 16 2 Edinburgh Educational Institution, — Fees received from Pupils, Session 1870-71, . . . . £7,386 6 3 Whereof received during Account 1869- 70, for the First Quarter of Year 1870-71, 1,650 0 0 Received during this Account, 5,736 6 3 Revenue, 12,862 19 2 « Money Borrowed during this Account, 17,400 0 0 Sum of the Charge, £54,164 12 ll 9 Discharge. Balance due to the Treasurer at the close of last Account, . . . £12 3 l 8 Interest paid on Borrowed Money, £865 0 2 Public Burdens and other payments on account of the Landed Estates, .... £1,121 1 0 6 Meliorations, viz.: — Drainage on which the Tenants pay interest, 4 9 6 8 1,116 11 6 Interest on Impressed Fund for Educational Purposes in the Town of Peterhead, 15 0 0 Contribution towards Expense of Salmon-Breeding Estab- lishment in the River Ugie, 5 0 0 Donations in connection with Aberdeenshire Estate, viz. : — Contribution to Monument to the late Miss Comrie, Peterhead, £2 2 0 Do. for a cup to be competed for Annually by the 1st Aberdeenshire Artil- lery Volunteers, 10 17 6 Do. to the Peterhead Life-Boat Establishment, 3 3 0 To James Laing, formerly tenant of Collie- law, Allowance by the Governors from Lammas 1870 to Lammas 1871, . . 15 0 0 31 2 6 Arrears of Rent on Aberdeenshire Estate, struck off by order of the Governors, . . . . . . 36 0 4 Allowances to Tenants on the Aberdeenshire Estate, . 148 15 11 Presentation to the Hospital purchased up, £130, with half expense of Assignation, £2, 2s. 9d., and £40 as considera- tion of Annual Apprentice Fee, 40 0 0 132 2 9 Property and Income-Tax retained from the Revenue of the Year, 29 9 4 Quarterly Disbursements : — Buildings and Repairs, . . . £2,282 9 0 Plenishing and Utensils, Maintenance and Medicine, Clothing, .... Coals and Lights, Fees and Salaries, Books, Stationery, and Printing, Incidents, including £390, 3s. 2d. portion of Expense of Provisional Orders, 1,090 0 2J 1,544 16 4 1,198 11 10 526 10 10£ 150 2 11 8,064 9 6 336 12 1 Pro- Carry forward, £15,193 12 9 £2,286 19 9 £144 5 10 6 584 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £15,193 12 9 £2,286 19 9 £144 5 10 8 Outfit and Allowances to outgoing Girls, 98 6 8 £15,291 19 5 Whereof expended on old Hospital be- fore sale to Watson's Hospital, and deducted from the price received, £2,084, 3s., and other items carried to Stock Account, .... 3,573 19 5 3,573 19 5 11,718 0 0 Expenditure of the Year, 14,004 19 9 Expenditure in relation to the New Cemetery at Peterhead, £229, lis. 4d., less £44 received for Ground sold, and £5, 15s. Dues of Interments, . 179 16 4 Note. — The expenditure on the Cemetery is expected to yield a good return ; and when the whole is completed, it may be px-oper to arrange that a Feu-duty or Kent shall be charged for the ground taken. Price of the Hopetoun Rooms, with entry at Whitsunday 1S71, £14,000, with £102, 12s. 2d., half Expense of Disposition, etc, and £3,237, 19s. expended on Account of Alterations, 17,340 11 2 Borrowed Money repaid, 9,150 0 0 Lodged in Bank: — Balance due by the Bank at 1st October 1870, . . £1,705 18 7 Do. due by the Bank at 1st Octobar 1871, . . 3,122 8 3 Paid in, 1,416 9 8 Sum lodged in Bank on Deposit Receipt, dated 3d October 1871, . 8,000 0 0 Arrears at 1st Oct. 1871, to be transferred to next Account, viz. : — Interest resting on Bond, . . . . . . £6 11 6 Rents and others on the Aberdeenshire Estate, . . 227 12 4 9 Property and Income-Tax repayable by Government, 12 14 0 246 17 10» Balance due by the Treasurer at 1st October 1871, .... 103 3 4 Sum equal to the Charge, £54,164 12 ll 9 Edinburgh, 30th October 1871. — Audited and Examined by Committee on Accounts. Thomas J. Boyd. William Cotton. James Gray. Richd. Bladworth. Eodem die. — Approved at General Meeting of Governors, and ordered to be Printed. Thomas J. Boyd, P. Abstract of the Stock of the Hospital at 1st October 1871. Dr. Cr. Bond by the Peterhead Harbour Trustees, . . . £2,000 0 0 Annuity by Legacy of Dr. Schaw of Preston, valued at . 100 0 0 200 Shares of Formatine and Buchan Railway, . . 2,000 0 0 Contribution towards Extension of Railway to the Har- bour of Peterhead, under Agreement— paid 1st Sept. 1865, 740 0 0 £4,840 0 0 Aberdeenshire Estate, per valuation by the late Mr. Scott, in 1861, £98,365, 2s. lid., with Meliorations since added to Stock, under deduction of Feu-duties pur- chased and Ground sold, . . £95,846 6 7 Roxburghshire Estate, per do. . . 25,009 17 10 120,856 4 5 Carry forward, £125,696 4 5 MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 585 Dr. Cr. Brought forward, £125,696 4 5 Now Cemetery, Peterhead, expenditure in relation thereto, 2,246 13 9 Plenishing in Hospital at Lauviston not yet sold, valued per last year's account at £525, and desks and fittings in do., per this account, £260, 8s. 3d., . . . 785 8 3 Purchase price of the Hopetoun Rooms, with half ex- pense of Disposition, etc., £14,102, 12s. 2d., and amount expended during this account, on account of alterations thereon, £3,237, 19s., 17,340 11 2 Cost of new Pianos and Piano Stools for the Educational Institution, per this year's account, £1,049, Is., less 20 per cent, for tear and wear, £209, 16s., . . . 849 5 0 Proportion of expense of Provisional Orders obtained under the Endowed Institutions (Scotland) Act, . . 390 3 2 Two Presentations bought in 1806 and 1871, valued at . 2-J2 2 9 To James Gillespie's Hospital and Free School, under Promissory-Note, £3,100 0 0 To the Merchant Company of Edinburgh, under do., . 4,800 0 0 To the Merchant Company Widows' Fund, under do., . 7,600 0 0 To Daniel Stewart's Hospital, under do., . . . 4,900 0 0 To the Trustees of the late George Grindlay, Esq., . 500 0 0 To R. Vary Campbell, Esq., 300 0 0 To Alexander Do well, Esq. (now repaid), . . . 5,000 0 0 £26,200 0 0 Interest on preceding obligations from Whitsunday 1871, 391 14 3 £26,594 14 3 Fund Impressed with the Governors for Educational Purposes in the Town of Peterhead, £300, with Interest thereon from 5th April 1871, 307 7 l 3 Balance due by Commercial Bank at 1st Oct. 1871, . 3,112 8 3 Sum in do. on Deposit Receipt, dated 3d October 1871, . 8,000 0 0 Arrears of Rents and others due to Hospital at 1st October 1871, 246 17 10 9 Arrears of Feu-Duties payable by the Hospital for Free- holds at do., 147 10 6 Balance due by the Treasurer at do., .... 103 3 4 £27,049 11 10 3 Net Stock at 1st October 1871 . . 131,953 6 l 6 £159,002 17 IP £159,002 17 ll 9 Net Stock at 1st October 1871, as above, . . . £131,953 6 l 6 Do. at 1st October 1870, 127,680 1 3 Increase this year when compared with last, £4,273 4 10 6 Report by the Accountant on the Accounts of the Merchant Maiden Hospital during the Year from 1st Oct. 1870 to 1st Oct. 1871. I have examined and cliccked the Accounts of the Hospital for year to 1st October 1871, and prepared Abstracts thereof, and of the Stock Account of the Hospital, as at that date, submitted herewith ; and with reforenco to these I have to report as follows:— I. The Income of the year has consisted of — 1. Rental of the Landed Estates and Fou-duties, Crop 1870, . . £5,603 11 3« Carry forward, £5,603 11 3 6 586 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £5,603 11 3 6 Less — Public Burdens and other charges thereon, £1,337 10 3 Proportion of Property-Tax thereon, . . 26 13 7 1,364 3 10 Free Produce, . £4,239 7 5 6 2. Other Eevenue from Interest and from Grindlay's Trust, etc., £1,523 1 8 Less— Proportion of Income-Tax, .... 2 15 9 1,520 5 11 £5,759 13 4 6 From which deduct— Interest paid on Borrowed Money, . . . . £865 0 2 Do. on Impressed Fund, .... 15 0 0 880 0 2 £4,879 13 2 6 Note. — From various causes, the Net Income last year has been larger than on an average of some years past. 4. School Fees for Session 1870-71, 7,386 6 3 In all . . . £12,265 19 5 6 II. The Expenditure has been as follows :— 1. Buildings and Repairs at Lauriston, . . . £2,282 9 0 Whereof Contract for Alterations, £1,642, and for Plumber Work, additional Gas Fittings, Archi- tects' Fees, etc., £442, 3s., 2,084 3 0 Current Repairs and Upholding, . £198 6 0 2. Plenishing and Utensils, Removals of Furniture, etc., . . . . £1,544 16 4 Whereof for new Pianos and Piano Stools, £1,049, Is., added to Stock, less 20 per cent, for tear and wear, . . . £839 5 0 Desks and Fittings at Lauriston, do., . . 260 8 3 . 1,099 13 3 445 3 1 3. Maintenance and Medicine, 1,198 11 10 4. Clothing, 526 10 10 6 5. Coals and Lights, . 150 2 11 6. Fees and Salaries in connection with Schools and Hospital or Boarding-Houses, Treasurer, Medical and other Office-Bearers, and Retir- ing Allowances, 8,064 9 6 7. Books for Foundationers, including Prizes, Stationery, and Printing, .... 336 12 1 8. Outfit and Allowances to Outgoing Girls, . . 98 6 8 9. Miscellaneous Payments, including Rent of Boarding-Houses, Taxes, Insurance, Cleaning Schools, Business Accounts, etc., £1,090 0 2 6 Whereof proportion of Expenses of Provisional Orders, includ- ing Printing, Advertising, etc., carried to Stock Account, . 390 3 2 699 17 0« £11,718 0 0 10. Proportion of Sum paid to Mr. Bell on Sale of Carry forward, £11,718 0 0 £12,265 19 5 6 MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 587 Brought forward, £11,718 0 0 £12,265 19 5° Presentation held by him, being amount in con- sideration of withdrawal of Presentee three years before her time expired, 40 0 0 11,758 0 0 There has thus been a Surplus Income of £507 19 5 6 III. The Eesult on the year in the Stock Account is in favour of the Hospital, £4,273 4 10 6 Arising thus: — Surplus Income, as above, £507 19 5 Proceeds of Sale of the Ground and Building at Lauriston, formerly occupied by the Merchant Maiden Hospital, £22,732 11 6 These stood in the Stock Account at 1st October 1870 at value of ... £16,761 0 0 Prior to the Sale there was ex- pended on Alterations in fitting same for Schools, as on pre- ceding page, .... 2,084 3 0 18,845 3 0 3,887 8 6 £4,395 7 ll 6 The Interest due by the Hospital for Borrowed Money has been in- creased this year by £119 0 1 The Feu-Duties in Arrear due by the Hospital for Freeholds sold have been increased this year by . 3 3 0 Deduct 122 3 1 Sum as above, . £4,273 4 10 8 IV. During the year the Governors have purchased the Hopetoun Booms for the new Educational Institution, for the sum of £14,000, with half expense of Disposition, £102, 12s. 2d., £14,102 12 2 And there has been expended, prior to 1st October 1871, to account of Alterations thereon, 3,237 19 0 £17,340 11 2 Edinburgh, 28th October 1871. (Signed) J a. M. Macandbew. Abstract of the Accounts of the Trust Estate of George Grindlay, from 1st September 1870 to 1st September 1871. Charge. Balance duo by the Commercial Bank at 1st September 1870, brought from last account, . . £595 4 1 Arrears outstanding at 1st September 1870, viz. : — Of Feu-duties at Orchardfield, Lothian Road, . . £263 4 10 Rents of unfeued Ground 26 0 0 Rents and Feu-duties at Bangholm Bower, . . 30 1 1 Property-Tax, 70 13 3 Church Seat Rents, 1 17 10 391 17 0 Carry forward, £987 1 1 588 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £987 1 0 Rental of Trust Properties, year to Whitsunday 1871, viz. :— Feu-duties of Orchardfield, £1,351 16 5 Kent of Shop No. 76 Grassmarket, . . . 35 0 0 Do. of Bangholm Bower and Lilliput, including Feu- duties there, 142 10 0 Do. of Tannery in Leith, 147 12 0 Church Scat Bents, 2 18 0 £1,679 16 5 Compositions received, 124 19 0 Sum received from a Feuar on account of expense of forming streets and drains, 717 1 1 Interest on Money lent, 64 8 2 Bank Interest received, 10 17 6 Price received for unfeued Ground at Trinity sold, with entry at Whitsunday 1870, with Interest thereon to 7th September 1870, when paid, 23 4 4 2,000 0 0 Incidental Sums received, 29 3 3 Revenue, . 1,932 8 8 Balance due to the Factor at 1st September 1871, to be carried to next Account, 113 8 10 6 Sum equal to the Discharge, £5,749 19 8 8 Discharge. Balance due to the Factor at 1st September 1870, brought from last Account, £22 6 9 s Amounts paid to Hospitals, on account of Revenue : — To the Merchant Maiden Hospital, on 5th October 1870, £250 0 0 To George Watson's Hospital, do., 250 0 0 500 0 0 To the Merchant Maiden Hospital, of various dates, £1,165 4 ll 8 To George Watson's Hospital, do., 1,165 5 0 6 2,330 10 0 Public Burdens, Feu-duties, Insurance, Repairs, etc., . £71 16 11 Interest paid to the Caledonian Railway Company on £1,200, at 3 per cent., to Whitsunday 1871, payable during currency of Lease of Ground, expiring Whit- sunday 1881, less Income-Tax, 35 7 1 Old Arrears of Rents of unfeued ground, struck off as irrecoverable, 26 0 0 Miscellaneous Payments, including Charges connected with Feuing arrangements, Expenses of Management, etc., i 153 14 4 Property and Income-Tax retained from Revenue, . . 30 1 4 6 Expenditure, 316 19 8 6 Money lent during this account, 2,000 0 0 *Arrears outstanding at 1st September 1871 : — Of Feu-duties at Orchardfield, £464 11 3 6 Rent and Feu-duties at Bangholm and Lilliput, . . 19 12 11 Church Seat Rents, 18 0 Property-Tax, 70 13 3 Carry forward, £556 5 5 6 £5,169 16 6 A considerable portion of these arrears has been paid since the close of this account. MERCHANT MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 589 Brought forward, £556 5 5« £5,109 16 6 Interest, 23 17 9 580 3 2 s Sum of the Discharge, . £5,749 19 8" Edinburgh, 28M December 1871. — Audited and approved of by Committee on Accounts. Thomas Knox. Thomas J. Boyd. J. Clapperton. Edinburgh, 4^ January 1872. — Approved at a Meeting of the Trustees, and ordered to be printed. Thomas Knox, P. Abstract of the Trust Estate at 1st September 1871. Feu-dutie3 of Orchardfield, Lothian Road, Edinburgh, per valuation by Mr. David MacGibbon, viz. : — Gross Amount of Feu-duties now all payable, £1,403, 5s. 0d., valued at twenty-three years' purchase, £33,055 6 6 Note. — The amount, £717, Is. Id., expended on Drains, etc., and entered in last year's Stock Account, has been received this year. Shop, No. 76 Grassmarket, let at £35 per annum, and valued at sixteen years' purchase of that rent, per valuation by Mr David MacGibbon, 500 0 0 Dwelling- House, Offices, etc., at Bangholm Bower, Trinity, Rental £105, Feu-duty £12, valued per do. do. at fifteen years' purchase, or say . 1,400 0 0 Note. — The Nursery Ground at Lilliput has been sold, and the price, £2,000, received this vear : and Bangholm Bower was sold on 31st January 1872 for £3,200. Feus at Lilliput, amounting to £37, 10s., less £3, 10s. lOd. proportion of over-superiority, valued at twenty-three years' purchase, or . . 781 1 7 Tannery Premises at St. Anthony's Lane, Leith, let on lease to Martin- mas.1880 at £147, 12s., valued on clear rental of say £130, at sixteen years' purchase, . 2,080 0 0 Sum in Loan to the Merchant Company Widows' Fund, on obligation by the Collector, . . . . . £1,500 0 0 Sum in Loan to the Merchant Maiden Hospital, on obli- gation by the Treasurer, 500 0 0 2,000 0 0 Arrears of Feu-duties, Rents, etc., at 1st September 1871, . 580 3 2 6 £41,056 11 3° Deduct— Balance due to the Factor at do., .... 113 8 10« Net Stock at 1st September 1871, .... £40,943 2 5 Net Stock at 1st September 1871, as above, £40,943 2 5 Do. do. 1870, 41,698 4 7° Decrease this year when compared with last, . £750 2 2 G Report by the Accountant on the Accounts of George Grindlay's Trust, for the year to 1st September 1871. I. The Revenue of the Trust, consisting of Feu-duties, Rents, and Interests during the year, has amounted to, ... £1,932 8 8 The Public Burdens, Repairs, Insurance and other charges thereon, including Expenses of Management, .... 310 19 8° Net, . £1,015 8 11° Carryforward, £1,015 8 ll u 590 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £1,615 8 ll 6 II. During the year the Ground at Lilliput, let as Nursery Ground, has been sold, realizing a sum of £2,000 0 0 As valued in the Stock Account, thi3 Ground stood at • 1,769 11 2 Gain, 230 8 10 III. The whole of the Feu-duties at Orchardfield have now come to their maximum payment; and the sum deducted by Mr. MacGibbon in 1869 from the gross valuation of the Feu-duties then in respect of maximum not being reached, has now been reponed in the Stock Account, thus increasing the valuations this year by the amount, . 234 10 0 IV. The Payments to George Watson's and the Merchant Maiden Hospitals have been as follow: — In October 1870, prior to the close of these Hospitals' Accounts for the year 1869-70, . £500 0 0 Thereafter in various sums, .... 2,330 10 0 £2,080 7 S c 2,830 10 0 Result on the Stock Account at 1st September 1871, . £750 2 2 f Note. — The Stock Account at 1st September 1870 included an accumulation of Eevenue of the Trust, the payments to the Hospitals for some years past having been within the amounts of the free Eevenue. During last year, however, the payments to the Hospitals have been larger, and have exceeded the accumulations and Revenue to 1st October 1871 by £64, 19s. 6d. This will be kept in view in making payments to the Hospitals of the Revenue of next year. (Intd.) J. M. MA. Edinburgh, 9th November 1871. JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION. 591 JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION, DEAN, EDINBURGH. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 2d July 1759, John Watson, Writer to the Signet. 2. ' To such pious and charitable uses within the City of Edinburgh as the said Trustees or Trustee shall think proper.' A Deed of Desti- nation was executed by the Trustees in August 1764, and an Act of Parliament for modifying and extending the purposes specified in said Deed of Destination was obtained in 1822 (Geo. iv. cap. 23, 1822). A printed copy of the Deed of Settlement, Deed of Destination, Act of Parliament, and Regulations is herewith filed. 3. The capital fund left by the Founder was under £5000. The present capital sum, as at 1st August 1872, was £109,000, exclusive of buildings. A copy of last year's account, herewith sent, supplies all further details. (See Query 20.) 4 . The constitution of the trust is fully set forth in the documents here- with sent. The Trustees are the Keepers and Commissioners of the Signet. The names of the Directors are: The Right Honourable Sir William Gibson-Craig, Baronet, Lord Clerk Register and Keeper of the Signet; James Hope, Esq., Deputy Keeper of the Signet ; John Gillespie, W.S., Treasurer, ex officiis ; Messrs. John Walker, Robert Cowan, John Wright, A. Hamilton, J. N. Forman, E. Baxter, Graham Binny, John Kennedy, Patrick Turnbull, Anthony Murray, John Ord Mackenzie, and John Brown Innes, all Writers to the Signet and Commissioners of the Signet. 5. No. 6. The Directors are appointed by the Trustees. 7. The Directors are divided into committees, viz. Home Education and Finance Committees, and those committees exercise a direct control over these departments, subject to the supervision of the whole Board. 8. This query is best answered by a reference to the printed documents sent. . 9. There are at present in the house 56 boys and 44 girls, all of whom are fatherless, and all are children of necessitous families. 10. Nothing is paid for any of the children in the house, except a small contribution by a few of the girls on account of extra musical education. 11. Seventeen vacancies, 30 applicants. 12. These are all fatherless children, and in necessitous circumstances. For classification see list put in under query 1 of head III. p. 598. 13. The children are admitted between the ages of seven and nine, and 1 remain until they attain the age of 14. 14. The children admitted are all or nearly all from the better classes, and there is no preference in respect of family name or connection, descent or place of birth, Church connection, or otherwise. Before admission, there are two examinations. Children under eight years of age must be able to read any simple lesson-book fluently ; and if above eight, must also be able to write an easy sentence, work a short sum in simple addition and subtraction, and repeat the multiplication table. 592 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 15. The Directors have a power of dismissing the children. 16. Each child upon leaving receives £5 in money, and a Bible, and £5 more by instalments during the subsequent four years. Provision is made for extra education of a higher order in special cases, and also for assistance in outset in life. (See Regulation No. 12.) 17. There are none. 18. There are none. 19. There are no children in this position. 20. A copy of last year's account is herewith filed ; and the accounts are annually audited by James Jobson Dickson, Esq., chartered accountant. Account of Charge and Discharge, the Trustees of John Watson's Institu- tion with John Gillespie, W.S., their Treasurer, from 1st August 1871 to 1st August 1872. Charge. I. Funds as at 1st August 1871, £102,873 10 11 Add — Value of Feu-duties and Grass Parks, on which no value was formerly put, viz. : — Three Feu-duties of £10 each, say at 23 years' purchase, ..... £690 0 0 Note. — The second of these Feu- duties does not become payable till next year, and the third not till the year after. Grass Parks now let for £72, 18,s. 6d., say at 25 years' purchase, .... 1,823 2 6 2,513 2 6 £105,386 13 5 Revenue for the year, viz. : — 1. Dividends on Royal Bank Stock, viz. : — On £27,150 for the half-year to Christmas 1871, at 8$ per cent., .... £1,153 17 6 £3,150 thereof sold 8th March 1872 at £195, whereof for dividend accrued, . . 54 5 0 On £24,000 for the half-year to Midsummer 1872, at 8$ per cent., .... 1,020 0 0 £2,228 2 6 A dd— Income-tax, not deducted by the Bank, to be received back, . . . 45 16 11 £2,273 19 5 Interest received viz. : — 1. On £49,000 on Rail- way Debentures for one year, at 4 per cent., £47 2 2 £1,960 0 0 2. On £6,000, per ceut., North Bri- tish Railway Company De- benture Stock, from 8th March (when purchas- ed) to Whitsun- day 1872, . 12 3 47 10 1 Carry forward, £48 4 5 £2,007 10 1 £2,273 19 5 £105,386 13 5 JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION. 593 Income-tax deducted. Interest. Brought forward, £48 4 5 £2,007 10 1 £2,273 19 5 £105,386 13 5 8. On £2,500 iu Heri- table Bond over Woodhall for a year to Whitsun- day 1872, at 4 per cent., . . 2 8 2 100 0 0 Total, £50 12 7 4. On £1,500 in Deposit Receipt with the Royal Bank, for year to 1st August 1872, . 38 10 10 5. On Account Current with the Royal Bank, for year to 1st August 1872, . . • 4 10 2 2,150 11 1 3. Feu-duty payable by the Marriage Contract Trustees of Mr. and Mrs. William White for the year to Whitsunday 1872, . . . 10 0 0 4. Rent of Grass Parks, . . . 65 18 6 5. Music Money from Pupils, . . . . 53 0 6 6. Price of Old Books sold, . . . . 1 12 6 4,555 2 0 III. Income-tax on Royal Bank Dividends, for the year to July 1871, to be received back, . ... ... . . 42 12 1 IV. Increase in value of Royal Bank Stock — Value of £3,150, sold 8th March 1872 at £195, . £6,142 10 0 Less Proportion of Midsummer Dividend, accrued as before, . ... . . . 54 5 0 £6,088 5 0 Value of £24,000 at £194, the selling price at 1st August 1872, 46,560 0 0 £52,648 5 0 Whilst at 1st August 1871 the value was only . 49,413 0 0 Increase, . 3,235 5 0 Sum of the Charge, "> 19 a Equal to the Discharge, f Ali ' V1J i " b Discharge. Expenditure for the year, viz. : — 1. Public and Parochial Burdens, Taxes, and Insurance, . . £56 0 4 2. Expenses connected with the Household Establishment, viz. : — 1. Maintenance, . . . . . £1,094 16 4 2. Coals, Coke, Water, and Gas, . 194 3 10 3. Household Furnishings, Washing Material, etc., . . . . . 66 8 3 4. Manure and Plants and Seeds for the Garden, 7 17 2 5. Medicines, . . . . 17 4 0 6. Expense of Jaunts and Treats to the Children, 17 8 0 7. Salaries and Wages, viz. :. — Matron and Assistant, . £105 0 0 Female Servants, . . 136 10 0 Medical Officer and Dentist, 70 0-0 Gardener and Assistants, . 57 15 8 Porter, . . 70 0 0 439 5 8 8. Incidental Expenses, . . . . 13 0 3 1.850 3 6 Carry forward, £1,906 3 10 2 p 594 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £1,906 3 10 3. Clothing, 658 8 1 4. Expenses connected with Education, viz. : — 1. Salaries, viz. : — Master and two Assistants, . . 427 10 0 French Master, . . . 40 0 0 Teachers of Piano, Singing, Drawing, and Dancing, . . . . 112 0 0 Drill-Sergeant and Band-Master, . . 17 8 0 £596 18 0 2. School-books, Stationery, Drawing Mate- rials, and Prizes, . . . 63 12 9 3. Musical Instruments, Music, etc., . . 93 3 6 4. Fees of Eeport by Inspector, and University Expenses, . . . . . 9 5 0 762 19 3 5. Ordinary Repairs, . . . . . . . 402 14 10 6. Payments to Children who have left the Institution, . . 118 6 8 7. Expenses of Management, viz. : — 1. Salaries to Treasurer, Clerk, Auditor, and Officer, 141 0 0 2. Printing and Advertising, etc., . . 35 11 1 3. One-half Fees for Tack of Grass Park, . 0 18 4 4. Postages, Stamps, Exchange on Remit- tances, etc., . . . . 10 17 6 188 6 11 II. Expense of Addition to Porter's Lodge, Alterations on Sick-room, etc., 158 19 9 III. Funds at 1st August 1872 as in State subjoined, . . . 109,023 13 2 Sum of the Discharge, > a 11991q 19 r Equal to the Charge^ * iid '^ 1Z b State showing the Property and Funds as at 1st August 1872, and the Annual Income therefrom. Capital. Income. 1. Royal Bank Stock, . . . £24,000 0 0 Which at the selling price of 1st August 1872, £194, is of the value of . . . . £46,560 0 0 £2,074 0 0 2. Sums lent on Debentures to the following Eailway Companies, viz. : — 1. Caledonian, . . . £23,000 0 0 2. North British, . . . 16,000 0 0 3. London and North-Eastern, . 6,000 0 0 4. London and North- Western, . 4,000 0 0 3. North British Eailway Co.'s 4£ per cent. Debenture Stock, ...... 4. Sum in Bond over Woodhall, .... 5. Sums in Royal Bank, viz. : — 1. On Deposit Receipt, dated 1st August 1872, . . . £1,600 0 0 2. On Account Current, . . 611 8 2 49,000 0 0 1,960 0 0 6,000 0 0 255 0 0 2,500 0 0 100 0 0 2,211 8 2 45 0 0 6. Three Feus at £10 each, valued at 23 years' purchase, 690 0 0 20 0 0 Note. — One of these Feu-duties does not become payable till after next year. 7. Grass Parks valued at 25 years' purchase, . . 1,823 2 6 72 18 6 Carry forward, £108,784 10 8 £4,526 18 6 JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION. 595 Capital. Income. Brought forward, £108,784 10 8 £4,529 18 6 8. Income-tax retained from Interests, etc., to be received back, viz : — Amount as in last year's State, . £68 14 1 Add — On Dividends for last year, . 42 12 1 £111 6 2 Amount retained this year, viz. : — From Dividends as in Branch II. of Charge of preceding Account, £45 16 11 From Interests as in do., 50 12 7 From Feu-duty, . 0 4 10 From Rent of Grass Parks, 0 15 0 97 9 4 208 15 6 9. Balance due by the Treasurer, . . . 30 7 0 Sums, £109,023 13 2£4,526 18 6 Note.— The Funds at 1st August 1872 amounted, as above, to . £109,023 13 2 And at 1st August 1871 they were .... 105,386 13 5 Increase, . . £3,636 19 9 Arising as follows : — 1. Excess of Revenue over Ordinary Expenditure, viz. : — Revenue, £4,457 12 8 Expenditure, 4,036 19 7 2. Income-tax repaid or repayable, . £208 15 6 Less included in last year's State of Funds, . . . 68 14 1 £420 13 1 140 1 5 3. Increase in value of Bank Stock, . . . 3,235 5 0 £3,795 19 6 Deduct — Extraordinary Expenditure, being for Building Addition to Porter's Lodge, and Alterations on Sick-rooms, etc., 158 19 9 As above, 3,636 19 9 Edinburgh, ISth October 1872. — Examined and compared with the vouchers, and hereby certified to be correct, there being a balance due by the Treasurer of £o0, 7s. 0d. Jas. Jobson Dickson, Auditor. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. All the children reside in the hospital building. 2. There are no children in this position. 3. The children formerly wore an hospital uniform, the boys with distinctive buttons, etc. This has recently been much modified, and buttons, etc., done away with ; but all the boys are dressed alike, and so are the girls. 4. The children are permitted to leave the institution on each Friday evening, and to remain with their friends or relatives in Edinburgh or the vicinity till the following Monday morning, the parties whom they visit being subject to the approval of the House-Governor. At other times they are not allowed to go beyond the bounds of the institution, unless by special permission from the master or matron. The friends and rela- tives have access to the children at all reasonable hours. There is a vacation of six weeks in autumn, ten days or so at Christmas, and also occasional holidays throughout the year. 596 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 5. The head master has power to punish the boys in a suitable and temperate manner ; and the matron has a like power with regard to the girls, after obtaining the sanction of the master. The assistant masters are authorized to inflict minor punishments. No record of punishments is kept. 6. A senior boy is placed in charge of each dormitory, whose duty it is to report to a master any cases of disorder or misconduct that may occur. Each new boy during his first year is placed under the care of a senior boy, who assists him, under the superintendence of the porter, in cleaning his shoes and looking after his clothes. 7. The nature of these arrangements is set forth in the Regulations. See, under the head of 1 matron,' articles 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 ; and under the head of ' assistants,' articles 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. A master and a nurse sleep on the boys' dormitory flat, and one of the senior boys acts as monitor in each dormitory. A servant or nurse sleeps in each of the girls' dormitories. 8. There are 9 dormitories in use, the dimensions of which are : — Length. Width. Height. Feet. Feet. Feet. 1 30 20 12J 2 291 1H 13 2 20| in 13 2 30 20 13 2 32 20 13 The cubical space allowed for each pupil is 614 feet. Average num- ber in each dormitory, 11. Some of the younger boys sleep two in a bed ; also some of the younger girls and sisters. There are on the boys' side 11 double beds, and on the girls' side, 15. 9. The children have all the usual amusements of children, and are quite as free in these respects as the children at any other school. The boys and girls have each a gravelled playground behind the institution, of probably one-eighth of an acre in extent, and also a field of four or five acres in front of and a wooded bank behind the institution buildings. 10. The regulations generally provide carefully for cleanliness, and the sanitary arrangements are excellent. At the north end of the house are two rooms set apart as sick-rooms for the boys, and which can be shut off from the rest of the house; and there is a similar arrangement at the south end of the house for the girls. The house is well supplied with bath-rooms, and each child has a daily bath. 11. Five children have died in the last ten years, three of them from fever. 12. A 24 hours' time-table and usual dietary scale for a week, are filed herewith. TWENTY-FOUR HOURS' TIME TABLE. Summer, Winter, Summer, Winter, Summer, Winter, A.M. 6.0 -6.45) 6.45-7.30 f 6.45-8.0 I 7.30-8.0 j 8.0 -9.0 9.0 -1.0 P.M. 1.0 -2.30 2.30-4.30 4.30-6.30 6.30-7.0 7.0 -8.0 8.30-9.0 | 8.0 -8.45) Bath — Dressing, etc. Prayers — Drill — Play. Breakfast and Play. Study (with interval from 10.30-11). Lavatory — Dinner — Band Practice — Play. Study. Singing — Drawing — Dancing — Play. Supper. Study. Prayers — Lavatory — Bed. JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION. 597 DIET TABLE. Days. Breakfast, at Eight a.m. Luncheon, at Twelve Noon. Dinner, at One in Summer, and at Two p.m. in Winter. Supper, at Six p.m. Evening Meal, at Eight p.m. Sunday, Oatmeal £ lb., Sweet Milk 1£ gill. Bread 2£ oz. Rice and Milk, One Egg, Bread 6 oz. Bread 6 oz., Milk 1£ gill; occasionally varied by Porridge in Winter Bread 2£ oz. Monday, Do. Do. Boiled Beef 6 oz., Broth with Vegetables, Bread 6 oz. Do. Do. Tuesday, Do. Do. Roast Beef 6 oz., Pease Soup, Bread 6 oz. Do. Do. Wednesday, Do. Do. Fish and Soup, Bread 6 oz. ; or Rice Pudding and Soup, Bread 3£ oz. Do. Do. Thursday, Do. Do, Stewed Beef 6 oz., Potatoes, Bread 2£ oz. Do. Do. Friday, Do. Do. Boiled Beef 6 oz., Broth with Vegetables, Bread 6 oz. Do. Do. Saturday, Do. Do. Rice Soup, Stewed Beef 6 oz.,Bread6oz. Do. Do. The younger children have a smaller proportion of Bread and Butcher Meat. III. Instruction. 1. The children are chiefly from the better classes ; and for some years back the status has been carefully heightened by the Directors, in the belief that the institution will thereby afford greater benefits than if the children were selected from all classes of deserving poor. The classifi- cation of children is herewith sent. 598 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Classification of Children according to Occupation of Father. Clergymen, Medical Men, Lawyers, . Merchants, Farmers, . Bankers, . Clerks, Schoolmasters, Navy, Engineers, Army, Shipowners, 23 14 11 9 7 7 3 4 2 4 3 1 Musicians, . Accountants, Clothiers, Stationers, Manufacturers, Auctioneers, Seedsmen, Factors, Stationmasters, . Manager of Works, Surgeon Dentist, 100 2. While in the house, the children are not specially instructed with reference to particular occupations or professions. 3. An instruction time-table is herewith filed. The girls make their own beds and those of the boys. The senior girls learn to wash, starch, and iron, in the laundry. They also assist in dusting and in other light household work. The elder girls also receive some instructions in cutting out and making up articles of clothing. TIME TABLE.— Classes V. & VI. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, . 9-9.30 9.30-10 10-10.30 11- 1 2.30-3.30 3.30-4.30 . 9-9.30 9.30-10 10-10.30 11-12 12- 1 2.30-3.30 3.30-4.30 . 9-9.30 9.30-10.30 11- 1 2.30-3.15 3.15-4 4-4.30 . 9-9.30 9.30-10 10-10.30 11-12 12- 1 2.30-3.30 3.30-4.30 . 9-9.30 9.30-10 10-10.30 11-1 2.30-3.30 3.30-4.30 Religious Knowledge. History and Geography. Writing. Latin. English. Euclid and French. Religious Knowledge. History and Geography. Writing. English. Algebra and Arithmetic. Arithmetic. French. Catechism and Recitation. Composition (written or oral). Latin. Algebra and Arithmetic. Euclid and French. Natural Science. Religious Knowledge. History and Geography. Writing. English, Algebra and Arithmetic, Arithmetic. French. Religious Knowledge. History and Geography. Writing. Latin. English. Euclid and French. JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION. 599 TIME TABLE.— Classes III. & IV. 3.30-4.30 Reading. To Dictation. Reading. To Dictation. To ~* To 03 .2 h o _ M O • H ffi A p J* M >^ — ^ T3 ^ C c3 •-'53 co^j CT g . CO .P T3 03 -u co ,__r co <2*8l o ° .P 53 * - 2 tp p os o 8 tL* o o » .P £ 2 03 w O — , > o3 o P ^ p a p^ O t> O • The whole Teachers hold office during the pleasure of the Directors of the Institution. T3 03 §1 U3 S •si 0Q H ^ O 03 O CO o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o kO o o o o o rH o a CO CM CO CM p S S & rP i .a o 1 P5 ^5 CO d S3 ^ CO GO CO 1 •a p 2 PQ e3 -2 J P< I 2 <1 o p o fcJO 03 r <1 r p o3 s 2 £1 bO p .a CO I o rP o o O Ph 10. No provision is made for superannuation allowances, but such allowances have been made by the Directors from time to time. 11. For many years the children in the institution have been regularly JOHN WATSON'S INSTITUTION. 603 examined by the late Dr. Woodford and Mr. John Gordon, Her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools. (Separate paper.) Substance of Reports on John Watson's Institution, for the Years 1870, 1871, 1872, by . John Gordon, Esq., one of Her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools. Religious Knowledge. — The Religious Instruction from Bible and Catechism has been given with great care and very good effect. (1870.) Among other Subjects, Religious Knowledge is prominent, and has received, if I mistake not, the largest share of the Teachers' attention. This is what might be expected, as well as desired, in an Institution which so closely com- bines the family life with the School work. (1871.) The Religious Knowledge of the pupils was shown in a lengthened examina- tion, and delivered with remarkable fulness, readiness, and accuracy. (1872.) Latin. — The Classes show a very creditable amount of progress, exceeding considerably what they had attained at the last year's Inspection. (1870.) All the Classes in a considerable state of progress. (1871.) Throughout the able tuition of the Master was seen in the good rudimental grounding of the pupils, and in other respects. (1872.) Mathematics. — In Euclid and Algebra there is a considerable advance of progress within the last year. (1870.) All doing very well — (Euclid). All expert in Simple Equations. (1871.) The written Exercises in Euclid are performed in a very creditable manner by the pupils, and especially by the females. (1872.) Arithmetic. — Considerable advance of progress. The principles of the Rules are clearly explained. (1870.) The Lower Classes work rapidly and well. The Higher Classes are proficient in the advanced rules. (1871.) How well they answered will appear from the accompanying papers written by them. And very noticeable it is how very expertly many questions were solved mentally in the advanced rules of Fractions and Extraction of Square Root. (1872.) . History. — The instruction in English History has been very well given. This appears not more from the range of the interrogation, than from the fulness and accuracy of the answers. (1870.) Another subject of very careful instruction, is that of History, rendered almost as interesting to the youngest as the cognate subject of Geography. (1871.) British History has been well taught, and in a manner which secures the live- liest attention of the pupils. (1872.) Geography. — The very intelligent lessons in Geography are received with lively interest. These lessons are assisted by frequent exercises in Map draw- ing, which are excellent. They are also accompanied with exercises illustrating problems on the Terrestrial Globe. (1870, 1871, 1872.) English. — An excellent appearance in the Syntactical parsing of passages given ad aperturam, and not of very simple construction. The whole class is practised in writing Abstracts. (1870.) The Class shows a very good amount of progress in Syntax, Analysis of Sentences, and in Composition. (1871.) The Grammar, comprising Syntactical parsing, Analysis of Sentences, Ety- mology, and some essays in Composition, present a very commendable feature of this Section. (1872.) General Remarks. — This School ranks among the first in Elementary Educa- tion throughout an extensive District around, — perhaps throughout Scotland, — yet it is not a School merely of an Elementary description. (1872.) In the words of a former Report (1870), I repeat that excellent discipline is secured throughout the School, leaving nothing to be desired, so far as I could perceive, either for better obedience to the rules or for the free and happy temper that should ever prevail in any such Institution. (1.872.) 604 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 12. The Directors are of opinion that the results of the instruction in this institution can be favourably compared with the results in any similar institution. (See Mr. Gordon's general remarks, page 4 of extracts, produced.) 13. As the children leave the house at the age of 14, almost none of them have, on leaving, gone to a University. For many years a few of the children have gone up to the local examination of the University of Edinburgh, and with very considerable success. In a note to the pub- lished Class Lists of 1871, it is stated, ' It is worthy of notice that a girl, Agnes Forbes Morrison, educated in John Watson's Hospital, Edinburgh, has obtained the highest number of marks in mathematics.' 14. No such record is kept. Hitherto no difficulty has been found in getting situations for the boys on their leaving the house. More difficulty has been experienced in regard to the girls, but many of them have obtained satisfactory situations as teachers, governesses, etc. General. The Directors have within the last few years raised very much the status of the children admitted, and have also added many branches of education not formerly taught. In 1870 they took into consideration a scheme and relative resolutions, proposed by the Merchant Company of Edinburgh, for a change on the administration of the hospital under their charge, but, after full consideration, the Directors came to be of opinion that, looking to the class from which the majority of their children are chosen, and that 4 John Watson's ' is the only institution in Scotland which may be said to be set apart for children of the better classes, — to the fact that they are selected from all parts of the kingdom, and to the freedom which the children are allowed in visiting their relatives and friends when cir- cumstances permit, — the changes there proposed would not result in so much benefit to necessitous children of the upper classes as is likely to be obtained from the present system followed in ' John Watson's,' with such extensions and modifications as may from time to time appear to be desirable. James Hope, D.K.S., 119 Princes Street, Edinburgh. 26th Nov. 1872. JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. (105 JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL, EDINBURGH. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. James Donaldson, Esquire of Broughton Hall, in the County of Edinburgh, who died 19th October 1830. Deed of Foundation executed by his Trustees, in pursuance of his Will, on 22 d November 1844. 2. An Hospital for boys and girls, preferring those of the names of Donaldson and Marshall, to be after the plan of the Orphan Hospital in Edinburgh, and John Watson's Hospital. Printed copy of the Will of Mr. Donaldson, Deed of Foundation, and Regulations of Hospital, herewith lodged.* 3. Capital sum left by Founder, £215,377. Capital sum at 31st December 1871, £237,111, 19s. 6d., besides Hospital and furniture, value say £124,000. For investments, see ab- stract of Treasurer's accounts at 31st December 1871, herewith lodged, p. 630. 4. Refer for constitution to Deed of Constitution herewith sent;* for names of Governors, etc., to list of these also herewith lodged. The property is vested in five Trustees, for behoof of the Hospital. These now are Doctor Andrew Wood, John Cook, W.S., Thomas Graham Murray, W.S., John Gillespie, W.S., and James Hope, jun., W.S. 5. No. 6. Some of the Governors are ex officio, others elected by the Governors ; vide Deed of Constitution.* 7. They exercise complete control by means of their Committees ; vide Regulations. Some of the Committees hold regular meetings. The House Committee has a stated monthly meeting, and meets oftener when required ; vide printed list of Committees and of their meetings. 8. It is in terms of the Founder's Will, but it has been interpreted to include deaf mutes as well as hearing children. This has been done from the time when the Hospital was opened in 1850. 9. There are 220 resident Foundationers, of whom 96 are girls. It may be explained that of the hearing children, 127 in number, 107 are fatherless. 10. None. 11. Thirty-eight vacancies, 19 boys and 19 girls; 93 applicants. 12. All are children either orphans or fatherless, or in necessitous cir- cumstances ; and in the case of deaf mutes, where the parents would be unable to pay for their education. 13. They enter from seven to nine, and leave at fourteen. 14. There are two preferable names, Donaldson and Marshall. In the schedules of application, applicants have to state whether the child lias made any progress in education. Prior to admission, the House-Governor examines the hearing children. Those who are found to have no elemen- tary education are now held to be disqualified. * See Appendix, note, p. 030. 606 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 15. Yes; tbe Governors have the power. 16. No fixed provision is given ; bnt when it is found that a child can- not get into employment without aid, this is given for such period as is necessary. 17. None. 18. None. 19. Not necessary to be answered, as all are Foundationers. 20. Printed abstract of account for year ending 31st December 1871 herewith lodged, p. 630. Treasurer's accounts are audited annually by Mr. J. Scott Moncreiff, chartered accountant. Treasurer audits monthly Steward's accounts, and keeps such record of expenditure as enables him to control household management. Before monthly accounts and before any accouDts are submitted to Treasurer, these are examined and marked by House-Governor. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys 124, girls 96. 2. All reside in the Hospital. 3. The boys are dressed alike, and the girls are dressed alike ; but their dresses are not so singular as to attract attention, and the girls' dress is what any girl of the same class may wear. 4. Yery considerable freedom is allowed. The summer holidays last for six weeks, and all the children are sent to stay with their friends dur- ing that period ; where necessary, assistance is given to them to do so. All those above ten are allowed to visit friends on Saturday in Edinburgh if they have any. Hitherto absences have been allowed also at the preaching times, in the case of children who have friends near Edinburgh ; but it has now been resolved to shorten the winter holidays and to lengthen the spring holidays. 5. Slight corporal punishment with taws, and in some cases written exercises or other punishment not corporal, such as stoppage of leave of absence on Saturdays. The House-Governor determines punishment in all important cases ; though the Master of the Deaf Mutes in the case of deaf mutes, and the Matron in the case of girls, also have power to pun- ish, and in slight cases the Assistant Master and Mistresses, subject to the superior Master, and all subject to the House-Governor's control except the Master of the Deaf Mutes and Matron. 6. A senior pupil has charge of each dormitory, and is so far respon- sible for the conduct of those in it. Reports by the House-Governor, Master of Deaf Mutes, and Matron will be furnished herewith, which give very full information as to the in- ternal management of the Hospital. 7. See House-Governor's report, pp. 607-618. 8. Average dimensions of dormitories, 25^ feet long, 24 feet wide, 17 high. Total cubical space, 10,404 c. feet ; or to each of 12 pupils, which num- ber is never exceeded, 867 feet. Each pupil has a separate bed. 9. For the boys, gymnastics, football, cricket, and other usual games. For the girls, gymnastics, and other usual games. These are freely indulged in. The Masters and Warders occasionally join in the boys' games. The playgrounds are extensive. Altogether there are about 1 5 acres more or less used as playground. 10. See House-Governor's report, pp. 607-618. JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 607 11. Eleven children have died in the Hospital since it was opened in 1850. 12. See House- Governor's report, pp. 607-618. III. Instruction. 1. See House-Governor's report, pp. 607-618. Report by Master of Deaf Mutes, p.p. 619-630. 2. See House-Governor's report, and report by Matron appended thereto. 3. See report by House-Governor, and also report by Master of Mutes. 4. See report by House-Governor, and also report by Master of Mutes. 5. See report by House-Governor, and also report by Master of Mutes. 6 See report by House-Governor. 7. See report by House-Governor. 8. The Governors appoint. See report by House-Governor. 9. See return. Dismissal at pleasure. 10. No. 11. See report of Mr. Laurie in July 1871 herewith sent. 12. No. 13. Only one boy has gone to the University, David Henry Marshall, who has distinguished himself much, and has gained by merit several of the most important prizes in the University of Edinburgh. 14. See report by House-Governor. General. The Governors have within the last few years considered very carefully what improvement could be introduced, and have extended the number of deaf mute pupils so as to include all deaf mutes unprovided with means of education otherwise. See report by Master of Deaf Mutes as to in- quiries made by Governors. REPORT ON THE STATE OF DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL SCHOOL AS AT 28th OCTOBER 1872. There are at present 220 pupils in the Hospital. Of these 68 are Hearing Boys. ,, 59 ,, Girls. ,, 56 Deaf Mute Boys. „ 37 „ Girls. 608 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. They are admitted to the Hospital between the ages of seven and nine, and leave it after the completion of their fourteenth year. Those named Donaldson and Marshall have a preference in the election. At present there are no deaf mutes of either name. Of the Hearing Children, 8 Girls are Marshalls. „ „ 3 Boys ,, ,, 8 Girls are Donaldsons. „ „ 13 Boys „ That is, 32 children out of 220 bear the preferable names. The following table shows how far the Governors in electing pupils have paid regard to necessitous cases. It will be observed that most of the deaf mutes have both their parents alive, while the large majority of the hearing children are orphans : — Hearing Children. Both Parents Alive. Mother Dead. Father Dead. No Parents Alive. Total Number. Boys . . Girls . . 6 8 2 4 45 35 15 12 68 59 14 6 80 27 127 Deaf Mutes. Deserted by Father. Deserted by Mother. Both Parents Alive. Mother Dead. Father Dead. No Parents Alive. Total. Boys . 3 1 40 3 6 3 56 Girls . 0 0 34 0 3 0 37 3 1 74 3 9 3 93 Note. — 7 Hearing Boys have a stepfather alive. 3 „ Girls „ „ „ 2 ,, Boys ,, stepmother ,, 5 Girls „ „ „ JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. C>09 Table showing what is, or was, the occupation of fathers of the hearing children. (A similar table is given for the deaf mutes.) It will be seen, on comparison, that the two sets of children belong to the same class in society ; but the deaf mutes are generally in much better circumstances, as most of them have their fathers alive. Boys. Girls. Xwlliy l CIloiUIlLl * i 1 > 1 » U 1 \ b I 1 1 i i t 1 1 > , . 2 Butler 1 1 J > U 1 1 ( 1 1_ I . . 1 ... Blockcutter . 1 Coachtrimmer 1 Commission-agent 2 (twins) Dock Labourer ... (Disappeared) i i Engine Fitter l Engineer a z 2 Engine Driver 1 X Farm Servant Q z Flour Miller . \ I French Master X Gardener 1 X (the father imbecile) Grocer . 1 . . . Glazier 1 Horsedealer . 1 Joiner . 3 Labourer o 4 Light Porter 1 Manager of Brick and Tile Work 1 Mason . 4 "3 Miner . 1 Officer of Excise . 1 Pipemaker 2 Policeman 3 Plumber 1 Plasterer 2 Quarryman . 1 2 Railway Porter 1 1 Railway Waggon In- spector 1 Railway Guard 1 Shoemaker . 3 Spirit Merchant . 1 Hoys. Girls. 11 i~w >vi 1 1 f 01 w 1 1 111 f* /"a f { OU IJCI 111 LLI U\\ 11 b VI l^UIl ctu Kill iivir oi rtUuiiii y . . i 1 . - . SI -iter kjlcll/(jl .... 2 Ssf 1 tinn 01 1 x Seaman 2 2 i ouacconisu s /vssisuiui . 1 X -L'yKUI .... ... 1 1 Schoolmaster . . 1 1 l-ii^Qiii ilorpnonf ... 1 1 OtilllUll -.ilclblA'I . • 1 X oiup ^aipeiibcr . ... 9 Z 1 X 1 Soldier .... 1 l!nm*pn OflR^fiT* Vyllllldl WlllCci . . ... 1 Clerk ... 1 j- j 0 1 1 ^ 1 ii tt.11 1 • « f l I Baker 1 Tiilrvr X illlUI .... 1 X vvnnrl I , ?it»X7'0'p H UUU V^ctlVCl . . 1 X 1 V ctl CllUUcClllclll . . 1 ... "Wi rework cr ... 1 ... Wo fnhm 0 Vat* IT cll/l/llIlltLKCl • . 1 ("IdT'tiPf Y-/CliA Ia^-L .... 3 2 Steward in Rfcenmboat 1 Dairyman 1 Farmer .... 1 Cabman 2 Tobacco Spinner . 2 Commercial Traveller . 1 Hawker (blind) 2 Drill Instructor 1 Weaver 1 Blacksmith's Hammerman 1 Landscape Painter 1 Brewer .... 1 Cooper .... 1 Cabinetmaker 1 School Instruction. The class hours are 8.45-1 0.45, 12-1 , 2-4, for regular school work ; 4.30-5.30, with Visiting Masters for drawing, singing, and drill ; 7-8.30 evening, for preparation of lessons in the Senior Sections. Saturday is always a holiday. The instruction given is the ordinary English course, supplemented by a course in elementary science. The school is divided into three sections — a Junior, Middle, and Senior. In the two former only the common branches aro taught; in the Senior a few science lessons are given. The following analysis of our time-table shows the subjects taught, and the time given weekly to each : — 610 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Junior Division.— Classes I. & II. L Bible and Catechism (including Sunday Lessons) 2. English Grammar (Class I.) „ (Class II.) 3. Arithmetic (with Master) . „ (Boys at Desk) 4. Writing 5. Dictation (Class II.) > Transcribing on Slate (Class I.) ) 6. Reading and Spelling (Class I.) . (Class II.) . 7. Geography and Map Drawing (Class I.) (Class II.) 8. Object Lessons 9. Drawing (Class I.) „ (Class II.) 10. Singing 11. Drill 12. Sewing 13. Preparation of Lessons during school hours (Class ,, ,, in the evening (Class II.) Time for play, besides Saturdays (Class I.) „ „ „ (Class II.) Number Number of of Lessons Hours Weekly. Weekly. 2£ H 5 3f 1* 1 3* 1 n n p 2 1 3f 3f 5 27£ 22* Middle Division. — Classes III. & IV. 1. Bible and Catechism (including Sunday Lessons) 2. Reading and Spelling 3. English Grammar . 4. Composition (Girls) (Boys) 5. Writing .... 6. Dictation .... 7. Arithmetic ,, Mental (Girls) » . » (Boys). „ (Boys) Class III. . 8. History .... 9. Geography and Map Drawing 10. Object Lessons 11. Chemistry (Boys of Class IV. with Seniors) Boys of Classes III. and IV. 12. Drawing (those Boys who show any taste for it) 13. Singing .... 14. Drill . . . 15. Sewing (also about 1 hour in the evenin 16. Preparation of Lessons Time for play besides Saturdays (Boys) ,, ,, those Boys not in Drawing „ „ (Girls) A few of the more promising scholars in this Division are doing a little Latin at evening preparation. Number Number of of Lessons Hours Weekly. Weekly. 4 n 3 n 3 3 1 h 2 n 2 i 2 i 5 5 2 5 8 n 2 H 3 n 2 n 3 n 1 i 2 2 2 2 2 1 5 5 5 n 17| about 12 JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 611 Senior Division. — Classes V. & VI. Number of Lessons Weekly. 4 Number of Hours Weekly. 2 3 u n i 1 3* n 2 i 4 H 2 2 1 5 n 12^ 1. Bible and Catechism (including Sunday Lessons) 2. Reading and Recitation (Special Lessons) . 1 3. English Grammar (Derivation, etc.) . . 2 4. English Composition ; . . . 2 5. Writing . . . . . 2 6. Dictation ...... 1 7. Arithmetic ..... 5 ,, (Boys not in Latin and Mathematics) . 10 ,, Mental ..... 2 8. History ...... 1 9. Political Geography and Map Drawing . . 2 10. Geometry and Algebra (8 Boys and 1 Girl) . 3 11. Latin (8 boys and 1 girl) .... 4 12. Physical Geography .... 2 13. Chemistry ...... 3 14. Botany ...... 1 15. Physiology ..... 2 16. Drawing from the Flat, Model, and Mechanical (Boys showing taste for it) . . 2 17. Singing ...... 2 18. Drill and Gymnastics .... 2 19. Sewing (also about 1 hour every evening) . 5 20. Astronomy (Advanced Section) ... 2 21. Preparation of Lessons .... — Time for play (Boys) . . . . . — ,, ,, ,, those not in Drawing . — „ „ (Girls) — Several Boys have one lesson a week in Instrumental Music. The Text-books at present in use in the Senior Division are — Bible and Shorter Catechism ; Currie's Practical Grammar (but the teaching is mainly oral) ; Practical Introduction to English Composition (Dr. Morell's English Series) ; Barnard, Smith, etc., for Arithmetic (but mainly oral teaching) ; Nel- son's Geography and Atlas. History — 1. Advanced Section, Freeman's Outline of Europe as basis ; 2. Junior Section, The Student's Hume, Freeman, etc., as basis on English History since 1789. Page's Physical Geography ; Roscoe's Chemistry Primer, supplemented from his Advanced Text-book and Barff ; Huxley's Lessons in Physiology ; Oliver's Elementary Botany ; Wilson's Ele- mentary Geometry and Todhunter's Algebra for Beginners ; Bryce's First Latin Reader ; Lockyer's Elementary Astronomy. In all the subjects taught by the Head Master, except Latin (see p. 614, ' Duties of the House -Governor '), and also in Physical Geography, the follow- ing is the method pursued : The pupils have a note-book for each subject, in which they write down a short outline from the Master's dictation. This out- line is afterwards carefully explained in a lecture, largely interspersed with questions, and illustrated with the aid of the black-board, diagrams, and ex- periments. Afterwards the pupils are examined orally; and finally, their knowledge is tested by written examinations. These written examinations are on all subjects taught in the Senior and Middle Divisions. There are five during the session, and each one up to the last is on the ichok work done from the beginning of the session. For hospital children especially, considerable variety of teaching is of essential importance : it gives them as much diversity of ideas as children have who are brought up in their own homes. The Science lessons, which were only intro- duced here in September last, have already made the children much more animated and intelligent. There are many advantages in using note-books instead of text-books. One good manual in the teacher's hands is better and cheaper than rrmny bad ones in the children's. It also trains the pupils to neatness of execution, as I have good opportunity of learning from our examination-papers 612 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. HEARING SCHOOL Note— 10.45-12, Boys at Play ; Girls at Junior Division. — Day. Class.J 8.45-9.30. 9.30-10.15. 10.15-10.45. Every Day, Monday, ~) Tuesday, > Wednesday) I. TT 11. Girls of Class I., Sewing. Boys, Arithmetic. Grammar. Girls of Class II., Sewing. Grammar. Boys, Arithmetic. Writing. Writing. Thursday,! Friday, ) I. II. Boys, Arithmetic. Bible and Cate- chism. Bible and Cate- chism. Boys, Arithmetic. Transcribing on Slate. Dictation. Middle Division.— Day. Class. 8.45-9.30. 9.30-10.15. 10.15-10.45. Every Day, Monday, . Tuesday, . IV.) Geography and Map-drawing. Reading and Spelling. Writing. AVednesday, Thursday, . Geography and Map -drawing. History. Reading and Spelling. Object Lesson. Dictation. Composition. Friday, History. Object Lesson. Dictation. Senior Division. — Day. Class. 8.45-9.30. 9.30-10.15. 10.15-10.45. Every Day, Monday, > Tuesday, | Wednesday, Thursday, . :i English Grammar. Advanced Section, Latin. Junior, Reading and Recitation. Advanced, History. Physiology. | Arithmetic. Composition. Botany. Writing. j Composition. Dictation. Friday, 1 Physiology. Composition. Composition. 11-12, Thursdays — Boys, Instrumental Music. 4.30-5.30, Monday and Wednesday — Drawing; Tuesday — Drill (Saturday, 8.30-9.30— Drill). Thursday and Friday — Singing. JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL, 613 TIME-TABLE, 1872-1873. House-work and Play. 1-2, Dinner hour. Classes I. & II. 1 9-1 14-1. 9-9 4.^ 9 4p;_q 1 k O.lO-'x. Arithmetic. Reading and Drawing. Preparation of Spelling. Lessons. Arithmetic. Drawing. Geography and Reading and Map-drawing. Spelling. Arithmetic. Object Lesson. Geography and Reading and Map-drawing. Spelling. Arithmetic. Object Lesson. Parsing in Exercise Reading and Book. Spelling. Classes III. & IV. 12-1. 2-3. . 3-3.45. 3.45-4. Girls Sew. Arithmetic. | Boys, Arithmetic, g 3 1 Boys, Chemistry with Seniors. 'S Grammar. Grammar. Arithmetic. Arithmetic. Arithmetic. Boys, Chemistry with Seniors. Boys, Composition. Boys of both classes, Chemistry. Grammar. Scripture and Catechism. Scripture and Catechism. Grammar. Mental Arith- metic. Mental Arith- metic. Classes V. & VI. 12-1. 2-2.45. 2.45-3.30. 3.30-4. Girls Sew. Geometry and Al- gebra (or Arith- metic). Geometry and Al- gebra (or Arith- metic). Latin (or Arith- metic). Latin (or Arith- metic). Chemistry. Monday — Advan . Section, Latin. Chemistry. Physical Geo- graphy. Physical Geo- graphy. Mond.— Adv. Astronomy. Geography and Map- drawing. History, Junior. Advanced Reading, etc. Arithmetic. Arithmetic. Advanced Astronomy. Mental Arith- metic. Arithmetic. Bible and Catechism. Bible and Catechism. 7-8 p.m., Preparation of Lessons, Class II. 7-8.30 p.m., Preparation of Lessons, Middle and Senior Divisions. 9.30-10 a.m. and 5.30-6 p.m., Sunday Classes for Bible and Catechism. 614 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Work done in Highest Class during Session 1871-72. 1. Religious Knowledge : (1.) 1 Samuel, chap, ix., to 1 Kings, chap. iv. (2.) Catechism, Questions 1 to 75, with explanations. 2. English : pp. 1-90, Nelson's Advanced Reader. 3. (1.) Grammar: pp. 1-42, Currie's Practical Grammar. (2.) Currie's Composition, pp. 1-49. 4. Geography : Sullivan's Geography, till within a few weeks of the end of the session ; afterwards Nelson's Geography and Atlas. 5. Physical Geography : Chapters i.-iv. and viii.-xi. inclusive, in Sullivan. 6. History: Collier's British Empire, pp. 203-286. 7. Arithmetic: 1st Division, Proportion and Vulgar Fractions. Second Division, Elementary and Compound Rules (money, weights, and measures). 8. Chemistry: the Boys went over the whole of Nelson's Chemistry of Common Things. Religious Instruction. — Sunday Time-Table. 1. The Text-books used are the Bible and the Shorter Catechism. In the Hearing School four lessons are given weekly. Each Master gives religious instruction to his own pupils under the direction of the House -Govern or. The House-Governor takes the Senior Division on Sunday evenings. The Matron also reads with the older girls on Sunday evenings. 2. Sunday Time-Tables : A. Hearing Children : 9.30-10 a.m., in school ; 11 a.m. to 12.30 r.M., at church ; 2.30-4, at church ; 5.30-6, in school. B. Deaf Mutes: 9.15-10 a.m., in school; 11 a.m. to 12.30 p.m., at church ; 2.30-4, in school ; 5.30-6.30, in school. At other times the children read suitable magazines, or in fine weather walk in the grounds, under the charge of teachers on duty, and Warders. Classification of Pupils and Prizes. 1. In the Hearing School the average number in a class is 21. Each Master has two classes under his charge ; but in the Middle and Senior Divisions the two classes are taught together in almost all subjects. The pupils are promoted to higher classes according to their attainments. 2. In the Deaf Mute School the average number in a class is 16. As it is mainly individual teaching, a larger class cannot be efficiently taught. Here also promotion to higher classes is according to ability. A few prizes are given in both schools. In the Middle "and Senior Divisions of the Hearing School they are determined by written examinations. Class-rooms and School Library. 1. The class-room for the Junior Division of the Hearing School and the sewing room are each 42 ft. 6 in. long, 22 ft. 9 in. broad, and 16 ft. 9 in. high. In the former there are 48 pupils ; in the latter there are seldom more than 20 at a time. 2. The large class-room for the Middle and Senior Divisions of the Hearing School and the Deaf Mute class-room are each at least 89 ft. long, 22 ft. 9 in. wide, and 16 ft. 9 in. high. In the former there are 79 pupils; in the latter there are 93 pupils and 6 teachers. 3. There is a school library for the hearing children, containing about 400 volumes. The older children are also supplied with books from M'Laren's Library, under the supervision of the House- Governor. There is also a small collection of books suitable for the deaf and dumb. Duties of the House-Governor. The House- Governor is appointed by the Board of Governors. He super- intends the whole instruction of the Hearing School, and tests results by several written examinations during the session. He also teaches the Senior Division English composition, physiology, botany, mathematics, Latin, history, astro- nomy, and religious subjects on Sunday evenings. He is responsible to the JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 615 Governors for the whole establishment, except the school instruction of the deaf mutes. He holds office at the pleasure of the Governors, and has no power to engage or dismiss any official. Supervision of the Pupils. By day the pupils are under the constant charge of the Masters and Mistresses on duty (two Masters, and, as a rule, the whole female teaching staff), with the assistance of two Warders. By night they are supervised by the Warders and Wards-maids, whose bed- rooms are situated so as to overlook the dormitories. Provisions for Cleanliness. The pupils have a hot plunge-bath once a week. Shirts and stockings are changed twice a week ; flannels, drawers, and neck-ties once a fortnight ; handkerchiefs and night-shirts once a week. The boys' bed-sheets are changed once in three weeks ; bolster-cases are changed once in ten days. The girls' sheets and bolster-cases are changed once in four weeks. In the lavatories (of which there is one for the boys, under the charge of a Warder, and one for the girls, under the charge of a Wards-maid), each pupil has a towel, two combs, hair-brush, and tooth-brush. The teachers inspect the children every time they go to school. Ventilation and all sanitary arrangements are strictly attended to. Twenty-four Hours' Time-Table and Dietary Scale. The following time-table refers to the hearing children ; that for the mutes is slightly different (see report by the Master of the Mutes) : 6-7.30 Dressing, House-work, and Play. 7.30 Prayers in chapel. 7.50-8.45 Breakfast, Bed-making, House-work, and Play. 8.45-10.45 In school. 10.45-12 Boys at play ; Girls, House-work and Play. 12-1 In school. 1- 2 Dinner hour. 2- 4 In school. 4-4.30 Play. 4.30-5.30 With Visiting Masters (Drawing, Drill, and Singing). 5.30-6.30 Boys at play ; Girls, except the youngest, Sewing. 6.30-7 Supper. 7-8 Preparation (except youngest class). 8-8.30 Preparation (except two youngest classes). 8.30 Prayers in chapel. 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. (Girls till 6.30 a.m.) In the dormitories. Dietary Scale. Breakfast, 7.50 a.m. Porridge and milk (4 oz. oatmeal and 1| gills sweet milk). 11 A.M. 1§ oz. bread. Dinner, 1 p.m. S u mlay. — i oz. preserved meat, with 5 oz. bread (6§ oz. bread for older children). Monday. — Broth, with vegetables, 1 oz. barley, 5$ oz. beef, 1{ oz. bread, and 10 oz. potatoes (or 3J oz. bread without potatoes). The amount of beef is inclusive of bone. Tuesday. — Rice-soup and suet pudding, 3£ oz. bread. Wednesday and Friday. — As Monday. Thursday. — Potato-soup, with 6§ oz. bread for older children, 5 oz. bread for younger children. When potatoes cannot be got, pea-soup, or fish, rice, etc., instead. 616 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Saturday.— Some variety, at the discretion of the Matron (subject to approval by the visiting physician). 4 P.M. 2^ oz. bread. Supper, 6.30 p.m. Coffee, with \ gill sweet milk, Gf oz. bread for older children, 5 oz. for younger. On Sundays, tea usually instead of coffee. Industrial Training. Every possible means are used to form in the pupils habits of industry. No attempt is made to teach particular trades, as the Governors are very justly of opinion that arrangements for that object would interfere too much with school work. The results of such training, besides, have by no means been satisfac- tory in institutions where it has been tried. It is thought by the Governors of this institution to be more prudent to lay a basis of sound instruction and healthy moral discipline at school, on which a technical training may afterwards be laid. A report by the Matron on the Industrial Training of the Girls is appended. The boys make their beds, brush their boots, sweep their dormitories, class- rooms, dining-hall, play-rooms, etc., clean the knives, wash their mugs, assist the engineer in attending to the fires, etc., and do a considerable amount of work with the gardener in the grounds. Arrangements for Visiting their Friends. All the pupils spend six weeks every summer at their homes. Those from the country districts go home also during the preaching holidays in October and April. Those who belong to Edinburgh, and those from the country who have friends in Edinburgh, spend the whole of every Saturday with tlieir friends. They are encouraged as much as possible to visit their friends also when occa- sional holidays are given. Every facility is given to friends of pupils to visit at the Hospital on Saturdays. It is thought better for the children not to go home during the Christmas holidays. In almost all cases the children from a distance correspond very regularly by letter with their relatives. 122 of the children visit in town on Saturdays. Amusements. There is gymnastic apparatus in regular use by both boys and girls. In summer the boys play cricket. In winter they have foot-ball. The park in front of the Hospital is well adapted for these games. It is my intention, as far as possible, to encourage our boys to play matches with other schools. It is throughout the endeavour of my colleagues and myself to carry out the instructions of the Governors, by giving the children such training in the com- mon English branches and in elementary science as will fit them to be useful members of society, and we try to make their daily experience as like as pos- sible that of outside schools. Analysis of ' Old Pupils' ' Book. Each pupil, on leaving, gets four tickets, one of which he is asked to send annually to the House-Governor, with the name and address of his employer on it. Inquiries are then made about the pupil's conduct, and the answers aro registered in the ' Old Pupils' ' book. The pupils have always been negligent in sending their employers' addresses ; hence the scantiness of our information about their occupations. JAMES DONALDSON S HOSPITAL. 617 Hearing Boys. HeariDg Girls. Deaf Muto Boys. Deaf Mute Girls. There have passed through the Hospital altogether 191 158 121 90 We have some account in the 1 Old Pupils' ' book of 114 80 85 63 I. Hearing Boys. Merchants' Clerks 01 ZL Joiners ..... Drapers' Assistants . . lb Wine Merchants' Assistants 3 Bank Clerk 1 bailors ..... 3 Wood Engraver l Bookseller .... l Newspaper Editor 1 (Gone to Canada) i Plumbers . 2 Engineers and Millwrights -2 Upholsterers . 2 Druggists .... 3 Dyer .... . 1 Blacksmith .... 1 Fireman .... . 1 Agricultural Implement Maker . i i Lithographic Printer . 1 Ironmongers .... 3 Mason .... . 1 Photographer .... 1 Watchmakers . . 2 Glass Engraver 1 Soldiers .... . 2 Brassfounders .... 2 Glass Merchant's Assistant . 1 Working Jewellers . 2 Engineers . 4 Printers 3 University Class Assistant . 1 Grocers 3 Currier . . 1 Nurseryman .... 1 Confectioner . . 1 Deaf and Dumb Teacher . 1 Musicseller . . 1 Enameller .... 1 Baker .... . 1 Gardener .... ■i 1 Lithographer . . 1 Post-office Clerks 2 baddler .... . 1 Miller 1 Glass btamers . . 2 In North British Rubber Com- Lawyers' Clerks . 2 pany's Works . 1 rupil-leacners . 2 Railway Porter 1 Gunmaker . 1 II. Hearing Girls. Domestic Servants . . 54 Dressmakers .... 9 Milliners .... . 3 Teachers .... 2 Corset-maker . . 1 Shopwomen 8 Factory Hand . . 1 In Gutta Percha Works . 1 Married .... . 1 III. Deaf Mute Boys. Lithographers . . 7 Quarryman .... Tailors .... . 18 Photographer's Assistant . Saddler^ .... . 1 Workman in Foundry Engravers . 3 Ship Carpenter Compositor . 1 At Home .... 14 Weavers .... . 2 Mason Civil Engineer . 1 Farming .... Blacksmith . 1 Shoemakers .... 11 With Ironmaster . 1 Painter Cabinetmakers . 2 Printers 3 Jewel-case Maker . . 1 Collier , 1 618 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Boat Builder 1 Brushmakers .... 2 Cork Manufacturer 1 Engineer . . . .1 Bellhanger 1 At home for four years, after leaving school . . .24 Servants 2 Steam-loom Weaver . . 1 Dressmakers . . . .25 So far as we can learn, all the old good moral character. Glass Stainer 1 Joiners , . . 2 In Edinburgh and Leith Flint Glass Works ... 1 In Douglas-field Works, Dundee 1 Milliners . . . . .4 Factory Hands ... 5 Needlewoman 1 Gone to India .... 1 pupils, almost without exception, are of David Balsillie, House- Governor and Head-Master. IV. Deaf Mute Girls. Remarks on the Industrial Training of the Girls in Donaldson's Hospital. The girls, in addition to the daily routine of bed-making, rooms sweeping and dusting, dishes washing, knives and shoes cleaning, are taught to wash, iron, prepare vegetables, wait at table, and do a great part of the scrubbing and cleaning at the girls' side which is done at the boys' side by servants. While at their household work, the girls, except when in the laundry, are generally working under the superintendence of the girls' Wards-maid, who, in addition to many other duties, has the charge of the girls' shoes. In the sewing room the hearing girls are taught by the Sewing Mistress, who is responsible to me for their conduct when they are not with the Masters, and who has also charge of their clothing. They all have from three-quarters to one hour daily for sewing during the ordinary school hours, and those above eleven years of age have also an hour and a half in the evening, three times a week. They make and mend every stitch of their own clothes except their frocks ; and they are now encouraged to make a dress for themselves before leaving the Hospital. In addition to their own clothing, they make yearly about three dozen boys' shirts. This session they have already made 155 under-flannels for boys. They knit all their worsted stockings, also a number of things for the house ; this is chiefly done at their leisure time. It must be borne in mind that they are from five and a half to six and a half hours daily with the Masters. The deaf and dumb girls are taught sewing for an hour and a half five even- ings a week, by the two female teachers of the deaf and dumb, both teachers and pupils being fully occupied in school during the regular school hours. They do exactly the same kind of work as the hearing girls, but, having less time, do rather less work. The few persons I have mentioned (two of whom are as much engaged in teaching as any of the Masters) being the whole available staff for looking after 96 girls and their clothing, it can easily be seen that the girls must rely very much on their own exertions. I divide the girls into dormitories or families, and by making the older girls look after the younger, give them as much a home feeling as possible. I consider it a matter of great importance for the training of the girls in habits of industry and forethought, that they are obliged to do so much for themselves. I encourage the girls to be as much in the open air as possible. I should have mentioned that the person who has charge of the boys' under- clothing is with the girls during the teachers' dinner hour, as now that both boys and girls have that hour for recreation, I consider it a matter of necessity that some one should be "with them. At all other times I allow the girls great freedom while not in school, in order to bring out their individual characters. I have found this have a very good result. To carry out this system requires JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 619 the teachers to take a more than ordinary interest in their charge, and the hearty co-operation of all concerned. I am glad to say I am at present ably seconded by my assistants. Georgina M. Cunningham. Note. — In future, those girls who are to become domestic servants will get more special training in house-work every day up till 2 o'clock, during the last six months of their stay in the Hospital. G. M. C. DEAF MUTES. A Synopsis of the Educational Course as carried on in the Deaf and Dumb Department, with Remakes thereon. Gentlemen, — I beg to submit to you the following review of the educational course as carried on in the deaf and dumb department, with remarks thereon. I must, at starting, mention that the deaf mutes, upon entering school, are totally ignorant of language. They are therefore first taught to make the letters on their fingers, and after- wards to spell and learn, with their appropriate signs, the names of the simplest and most familiar objects, as cat, dog, pin, ear, arm, eye, etc. At intervals they are taught to form the letters on their slates, and having familiarized themselves with them, they are called upon to write the letters and afterwards words from the signs given to them by their teacher. This being ac- complished, they are considered to have made a fair start. In a similar manner the simplest verbs and adjectives are taught. Verbs : as walk, play, cry, run, laugh, etc. Adjectives : as good, bad, fat, thin, etc. When the children have acquired a good list of nouns, verbs, and adjectives, they are then taught to combine the adjectives with the nouns, as a good boy, a bad boy, etc. etc. At other times during the day they take up the numerals with their signs and names, which have to be written. The articles a, an, and the are soon afterwards taught. The article an takes them a long time to understand. The plurals follow this lesson, and they are long in getting them up perfectly. The personal pronouns come next, and are used with the verbs to be and to have. The proper use of these two verbs puzzles them greatly, and after two or three years' instruction they will use ' am ' for ' have,' and vice versa ; as, 'lama watch,' for, ' I have a watch.' They are now taught to answer simple questions, as, Can you walk ? Have you a knife ? Do you like school ? Do you like to learn ? Are you good ? Are you a boy ? Are you a good boy ? etc. The parts of things now follow, e.g. the legs of a chair, the leaves of a book, etc. ; and such lessons as, a box of coals, a coal box, a bottle of wine, a wine bottle, etc. In this lesson, in which apparently there is nothing to confuse them, they will often make singular mistakes, reversing the order, and saying a coal of box, or a tail's kite ; and the adjectives are often treated in a similar way, as, a man good, etc. The nouns are now employed with verbs in the present tense, as, a horse runs, a dog bites, cats scratch, etc., and with the present participles, as a horse run- ning, boys playing, etc. The verbs to be and to have are now used in dictation ; e.g. the teacher signs, 1 watch and I ' (pointing to himself), and the pupilshave to write, 1 You have a watch,' etc. etc. Sentences with these verbs are constantly being signed to them in an extended form. Questions such as, "What is your name ? — age ? How are you ? Where do you come from ? have to be gone over very frequently. 620 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. The possessive with the other pronouns have now to be used with application, as, My book is small, etc. ; This house is large, etc. The prepositions are taught by placing an object in position ; e.g. the teacher puts a book upon or under the table, and the pupils have to write, k The book is upon (or under) the table.' Frequent use has to be made with the prepositions, as the children are so apt to misunderstand them, and to say, ' The table is upon (or under) the book.' Some of the elder pupils will not observe the mis- take when you promptly ask them if they have seen a cage in a bird, for they will answer, ' I have seen a cage in a bird,' etc. The imperative mood is now taken up ; as, Bring me a pen — two books, etc. ; Sit down, Take this away, etc. The present participles, as, a horse running, boys playing, have now to be gradually extended ; as, I have seen a horse drawing a heavy load up a steep hill, etc. The verbs in the present, past, perfect, and future tenses follow. This lesson, in all but the two junior classes, is continually in use, and the pupils have to employ the verbs, with their different tenses, in the formation of sentences. Questions on objects have to be introduced with some of the other lessons dur- ing the day : — ' The Cow.' ' Have you seen a cow ?' ' Was it black or white ?' 1 Were you afraid of it ?' etc. etc. A very great deal of informa- tion and language are given the classes by these lessons. Dictation from actions. — The teacher does, says, asks, tells, orders, etc. ; e.g. he puts a book upon the table and tells a boy to open it and look at the pictures. The children w r rite out in full what took place. They are taught to ask one another questions, to enable them to hold conver- sation. Numerous questions have to be asked them with, Who — ? Where — ? When — ? Why — ? What — ? How often — ? How many — ? To whom — ? etc. etc. After repeated lessons in the former, they frequently con- fuse the names of persons for place, time, things, number, etc. Questions on ordinary occurrences; e.g. Who brought the letters into school? To whom did he give one ? Did you expect one? and so on. By this means they acquire much language. Lessons on time. — To tell the time ; the names of the days, weeks, months, seasons, etc., with questions, as, What day is this? What day was yester- day? etc. Sentences, ungrammatically expressed by the teacher, have to be corrected by the pupils. This lesson is a good criterion of the manner in which they have acquired all the previous lessons. Religious lessons. — Old and New Testament history, moral lessons, Catechism. Geography, Arithmetic, and Writing are carried on gradually with the other lessons, at stated times during the week. I may here remark that every word in each part of speech has to be explained by signs, then exemplified by the teacher, and afterwards by the pupils. Without doing so there would be endless confusion of words and con- sequently of ideas. Even after most diligent and painstaking explanations, one is often astonished at, and amused with, the peculiar way in which the signs have been interpreted. The first or advanced class has to enlarge upon and utilize all the lessons which have been taught in the junior classes, as well as take up more advanced lessons, such as, comparison of adjectives, which the other classes do not seem able to grasp. They have to form sentences upon these comparisons and also with adverbs, jwepositions, and the other parts of speech and all the tenses of the verb. They are taught to supply prepositions and adverbs in sen- tences as well as to employ prepositional and adverbial phrases. Conversational lessons are frequently taken up, as idiomatic expressions are so often to be met with. They are a long time before they learn to apply such conjunctions as neither — nor, either — or, as — as, etc. If the sign of the subjunctive, launches them into great difficulties with the verbs, as in the sign language the verbs in the simple forms only are used, the expression of countenance supplying the conjugation ; e.g. the children sign, if — fall — hurt, which may be rendered, ' If you fall you will hurt yourself,' or 4 If you were to fall you would hurt yourself,' or ' If you had fallen you would have hurt yourself.' It will therefore be seen that the expression of countenance means a great deal, but to render it into written language is found to be JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 621 extremely difficult. Perfection in this lesson can only be attained by constant repetition ; and very many other lessons equally as difficult and important call for special attention. One at times feels bewildered to know which lessons to take up first to the greatest advantage. Frequent examples have to be given with words which they are continually confounding, — as, because, for therefore ; since, for till ; dress my clothes, for dress myself ; the ink is empty, for the ink is all gone ; before, for after, etc. etc. They are altogether unable to get at the meaning of idiomatic expressions, and it is on this account that they cannot understand half what they read in ordi- nary books. Take for example the following : — To be of the same mind ; to change one's mind ; to have a mind to ; to speak one's mind ; to be quite to one's mind ; to make up one's mind ; to call to mind ; to put in mind ; to go out of one's mind ; to be out of one's mind ; to be easy or uneasy in one's mind ; to turn the back upon ; to keep up with ; to be in the background ; at the top of one's voice ; to turn a deaf ear ; to roll in riches ; to run up a bill ; to laugh in one's sleeve ; to take no interest in, etc. The above lessons, with lessons on objects, dictation of familiar occur- rences, events of the day, descriptions of pictures, history, fables, simple reading books, and the Bible, enable them to write their own doings, compose letters, essays on common objects, biblical subjects, form prayers, and to read simple books only. Articulation forms a part of the course of instruction, but it is only taught to those who have an aptitude for it, and are of good capacity. The first four classes write home once a month. At the commencement of the session, each teacher examines his or her class, marking down the results ; and at the end of the session, the classes are again examined on the same lessons, when the progress which the children have made is readily seen. I examine each class monthly, marking down the results after which the percentage of each lesson and the places of the children are found. The allotted time at school, viz. five years, to accomplish all this necessary work satisfactorily is far too short, for it must be borne in mind that the deaf mutes only commence to acquire language upon entering school. Children who retain their hearing to the age of five or six have and always maintain a very marked superiority over those congenitally deaf. It can readily be seen, therefore, that a much longer time at school is re- quired to compensate for this great disadvantage at the outset, the more so, when five years are found to be short enough for children possessed of all their faculties to acquire that amount of learning necessary to fit them for their places in society. Congenital deaf mutes, after a course of instruction of four and five years, or even more, have not the same command of language as a hearing child of seven or eight years of age. The deaf mutes do certainly acquire a great deal of general knowledge in the prescribed time, and express their ideas freely, on almost any subject, iu simple language, but not grammatically ; but they be- come nonplussed altogether, if, when reading, they meet with any idiom which has not been previously explained. No one who has not studied the subject could believe how often these idioms occur in newspapers, and in the simplest. books; and it is this frequent recurring difficulty that prevents them for so long a time appreciating a book, and makes them so backwaid in holding communication with strangers. The rectification of the above evil (shortness of time at school) may be unavoidable, as by keeping them any or much longer than their fourteenth birthday would make them twenty years old or more before they would be able to earn their own livelihood; but it is just at this age (14) when their minds begin to expand and comprehend how to weave into an intelligible form all the material which from day to day they have been receiving. I am frequently asked, what benefit the deaf and dumb derive by living with hearing children? My reply is that in an educational point of view the benefit derived is very slight, as the two classes of children do not enter much into communication with one another ; nor can it be expected of them to do so, on account of the difficulty of holding quick intercourse. Those of the hearing children who ore sometimes to be seen with them, very 622 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. soon get into the way of conversing with them by signs interspersed with words, and therefore the benefit to them in regard to language is very inconsi- derable ; but, on the other hand, I believe that a great social benefit is derived by their being together, as their moving in the sphere of hearing children has, I think, a cheering influence upon their dispositions, thereby rendering them the more ready and willing for instruction, besides drawing them out of that isolation to which by nature they are so prone, and thus the better fitting them to mix in that society into which they will ultimately be thrown. For the purpose of carrying on the education of the deaf mutes, their living- together is absolutely necessary, in order to maintain a system of signs or language. Since the opening of the Hospital in 1850, there have been admitted — Deaf Mute Boys .... 177 Girls .... 127 304 „ Boys left. ... 121 „ Girls „ . 90 211 left. ,, Boys at school ... 56 „ Girls „ 37 93 at school. Two boys and one girl have been discharged for incapacity. Four deaf mute boys have died at the Hospital, viz. : 1. James M 'Donald (water in head), 29th March 1856. 2. David Stewart (water in head), 26th February 1857. 3. Alexander Clerk (scarlet fever), 9th January 1862. 4. Robert Ferguson (inflammation of lungs), 21st October 1866. The following is a tabular list of the parents of the children now at school : — Father and Mother Alive. Fathers Alive, Mothers Dead. Fathers Dead, Mothers Alive. Fathers and Mothers Dead. Mothers Deserted Fathers Deserted Total. Boys . 40 3 6 3 1 3 56 Girls . 34 0 3 0 0 0 37 74 3 9 3 1 b o 93 Occupations Boys. Girls. Miners .... 5 4 Labourers . ..66 Farmers ... 3 1 Shoemakers . . .3 1 Fishermen . . .2 2 Handloom Weavers . 3 0 MU1 Workers ..20 Cartel's . ..21 Railway Labourers . 1 1 Clerk ....10 Masons ... 1 2 Sawyer ...10 Ham Curers . . 1 1 Tailors .... 1 1 of the Parents. Boys. Gir Railway Agents . . 2 0 Porters . . 2 0 Smiths . . 1 1 Iron Moulders . 2 0 Joiner . . 1 0 Shopkeeper . . 1 0 Coachman . 1 0 Quarrier . 1 0 Mechanic . 1 0 Ship Carpenter . 1 0 Ploughmen . . 0 2 Shepherd . 0 1 Innkeeper . o 1 Fish Curer . . 0 1 JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 023 Painter. Printer. Cotton Spinner Boat Builder Kngineman . Grocer . Cartwright . Boys. Girls. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Boys. Girl:- Supports! by Mothers . 8 4 „ Aunt . 1 0 Grand Uncle 1 0 Adopted ... 1 0 56 37 The causes of the deafness of they lost their hearing: — Scarlet Fever the children now at school, and ages when Measles Gastric Fever Fall Water in the Head Disease . Suppuration of Ears Cold n Convulsions No cause given Born Deaf Total Boys. 1 at 5 years. 1 at 4 years. 1 at 2£ years. 1 at 2 years. 1 at 13 months. 1 at 3£ years. 1 at 20 months. 1 at 6 months. 1 at 3 years 1 at 3£ years. 1 at 8 months. 1 at If years. 1 at 20 months. Girls. 1 at 1£ years. 1 at 14 months. 2 41 56 1 at 2 years. 1 at 6 months. 1 at 9 months. r ... 1 at 6 months, 2 28 37 CURRICULUM OF INSTRUCTION FOR DEAF MUTES. (Session 1871-1872.) Class VI. — Miss Croal. The children in this class, with the exception of three boys, have been ten months at school. During that time they have learned — 1. Nouns. About 220 Miscellaneous Words, such as key, etc.; parts of the body, trades, parts of things. 2. Adjectives. All the first list, — 140 words. 3. Verbs. All the first list,— 140 words. 4. Articles. The use of the Articles a, an, and the. 5. Plural endings in .9, es, y into ies\ and / into ves. 6. Combination of the Adjectives and Nouns which they have learned sepa- rately. 7. Pronouns. Personal and Possessive. 8. Simple Questions on 'Can,' 'Have,' 'Like,' ' How many,' 'Be;' also Miscellaneous Questions, as What is your name ? etc. 9. Religion. Prayers and Graces, Simple Sentences, as, God is good. Simple Questions, as, Do you love God? etc. 10. Arithmetic. Numeration to hundreds, Addition, Subtraction, and Mul- tiplication by 2 and 3. 624 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Class V.— Mr. Henderson. This class, with the exception of four children, entered in September 1871 (ten months at school). During that time they have learned — 1. Nouns. About 400 Miscellaneous Nouns, such as key, saw, etc. ; parts of the body, trades, clothing, school furniture, toys, food, parts of things, e.g. the legs of a chair, etc. 2. Verbs and Adjectives. All the first list of Verbs and Adjectives, and GO each from the second list. Total/400. 3. Articles. The use of the Articles a, aw, and the. 4. Plural endings. . Preparation Object Conversa- tion Lesson. Writing and Dictation. Arithmetic. Composi- tion. Set pre pa- ra ton ITitsday, . Correct u All l o. Correct Exercises. Reading. Verbs, and Sentences on Verbs. WEDNES- DAY, w Nouns with Questions or History. Conversa- tion Lesson, Dictation or Questions. Religion, Old Test, Catechism. Explain Chapter of Bible. Thursday, Correct Exercises. Correct Juxercises. Reading. Arithmetic. Adjectives, and Sentences on Adjectives. Fill DAY, . Catechism with Questions. Miscellane- ous Questions. Writing and Dictation. ?? Geography and Vocabulary Revision. TIME-TABLE. — 2d Class. 8.45-9.15 9.15-10.15 10.15-10.45 12-1 2-3 3-3.30 3.30-4 Monday, . Children say Sunday Lesson. Dictation. Children ask Questions. Questions and Writing. Arithmetic. Nouns. Object Lesson. Tuesday, . Say Nouns, Object Lesson, and Catechism. Easy Questions. n Verbs. Wednes- day, Verbs, and Object Lesson. Writing Exercises. Writing Exercises. Writing Exercises. Old Test. Questions. Explain Chapter of Bible. Religious Lesson and Catechism. Thursday, Religion, Nouns, and Catechism. Dictation. Miscellane- ous Questions. Children ask Questions, and Arithmetic. Adjectives. Object Lesson. Writing. Friday, . Adjectives, Object Les- son, and Geography. Writing Exercises. Writing Exercises. Writing Exercises. Learn Exercises. Learn Exercise . Sunday. — Preparation on Sundays, 0.15-10 a.m. Church. — 11-12.30 a.m. Boys and Girls' Preparation every evening, except Friday, 7-8 p.m. Friday. — Senior Division Draw Maps, 7-8 p.m. Junior Division, Drawing, 7-8 P.M. School on Sundays, 2.30-4, New Testament Lessons, etc. Sunday Evenings, 5.30-0.30, to learn Bible Lesson. Senior Division, Reading Lesson, 5-0 p.m. Thursday. 628 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. TIME-TABLE.— 3d Class. 8.45-9.15 9.15-10.15 10.15-10.45 12-1 2-3 3-3.30 3.30-4 Monday, . Children say Preparation Dictation. General Questions. Questions and Writing. Arithmetic. Nouns. Preparation Object Lesson, Nouns. Tuesday, . »i n Object Les- son and Conjuga- tion. n ii Verbs. Object Les- son, Verbs, and Scripture History. AVednes- DAY, »i n TimeLesson li Scripture History. Sign Bible Stories. Vocabulary and Dictation. Thursday, »i ii General Questions. li Arithmetic. Adjectives. Geography, Adjectives, and j Yi Con jug a | tions. J Friday, . »i n Object Les- son and Conjuga- tion. »1 >i Revision of Vocabulary Set Sund 1 Lesson, j TIME-TABLE.— 4th Class. 8.45-9.15 9.15-10.45 12-12.30 12.30-1 2-3 3-3.30 3.30-4 1 Monday, . Children say Preparation Object Lesson. Miscellane- ous Questions. Writing. Arithmetic. Nouns. Sentences] on Prepos* tions. 1 Tuesday, . n Dictation. Simple Questions. n ii Verbs. Participles TimeLesson WEDXES- DAY, n and Conjuga- tion of Verbs. Miscellane- ous Questions. n Scripture History. Sign Bible Stories. Preposi- tions. Thursday, ii Dictation. Simple Questions. ii Arithmetic. Nouns. Genders Plurals, etc. Fkiday, . n Revise Dictation. Revise Questions. ii ii Revise Vocabulary Revise , Preparatio Lessons. T.oys 1 Drill, Tuesdays, 5-5.30 P.M. ; Saturdays, 8.15-8.45 A M. Girls' Drill, Tuesdays, 4.30-5 r.M. ; Saturdays, 8.45-9.15 A.M. JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 020 TIME-TABLE. — 5th Class. 8.45-9.15 9.15-10.15 10.15-10.45 12-1 2-3 3-3.40 3.40-4 Monday, Children say Preparation Simple Questions. Verbs. Parts of Thin *ts Writing. Arithmetic. Noun** Prepara- tion, Picture Lesson. TrTFSDA Y J. 1 LOi.'a 1 j • ii is 1 ^ Lti nun . A dippfii vps The Articles J. JLHillo^ L-lAy. Writing. ?J Lesson Book. Wednes- day, »» Miscellane- ous Questions. Verbs. TimeLesson Writing. Religious Lessons. Revise 12-12.30 Lessons. Picture Lesson. Thursday, »> Simple Questions. Adiectivps Pronouns, etc., Writing. Arithmetic. Nouns. Lesson Book. Friday, . n Dictation. Revise Verbs and Adjectives. Revise Preparation Lessons. Revise Nouns. Religious Lesson for Sunday. TIME-TABLE.— 6th Class. 8.45-9.15 9.15-10 10-10.45 12-1 2-3 3-3.40 3.40-4 Monday, . Prepare Verbs. Verbs. Simple Questions. Nouns and Writing. Arithmetic Nouns. Preparation Adjectives, and Nouns. Tuesday, . Prepare Adjectives. Adjectives. ii )> ii Plurals, etc. ! Wednes- day, Prepare Verbs. Verbs. » 1> Religion. Revise Plurals and Vocabulary Adjectives and Nouns. 'hursday, Prepare Adjectives. Adjectives. ii )» Arithmetic. Nouns. Plurals, etc. Friday, . Revise Verbs and Adjectives. Revise Verbs and Adjectives. Revise Questions. || ii Revise Nouns. Set Sunday Lesson. Boys Draw, Mondays and Wednesdays, 4.45-5.45 r.M. Girls, Needle-work, every evening except Saturday, 5-6.30. School is opened and closed with prayer. Chapel, 7.30 a.m. and 8.30 p.m. 630 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. The children whose parents live in and near Edinburgh are allowed to go out on Saturdays, — those above ten years of age, every Saturday ; and those below that age, on the first and third Saturdays of the month. They rise at 6- a.m., and out of school hours are employed in household work, such as sweeping and dusting rooms and passages, setting the tables for meals, cleaning knives, boots, and mugs, and assisting the engineer and gardener. Each boy makes his own bed. Their games are cricket, football, and gymnastics in particular; but they amuse themselves also in various boys' games, according to the season of the year. Their summer vacation lasts for six weeks ; and those of the children whose parents reside a short distance in the country are allowed to go out in the April and October fasts. A. Large, Head-Master of Deaf Mutes. Report by the Treasurer of James Donaldson's Hospital on the State of the Funds of said Hospital, as at 31st December 1871. No. I. — Abstract of the Treasurer's Accounts, from 31st December 1870 to 31st December 1871. Charge. I. Capital Sums received, viz. : — Loan on Heritable Security, received up, . . . . £3,000 0 0 Fifth instalment of sum (£500) lent to Parochial Board of Dunottar,* 33 6 8 £3,033 6 8 II. Ee venue for the Year, viz. 1. Dividends and Interests, less Income-Tax, . £5,682 9 4 2. Eevenue from the Estate of Barras, -. . 4,166 13 4 3. Kental of Property near Edinburgh, . . 176 1 9 4. Pent received for Grass at the Hospital, . . 28 0 0 5. Income-Tax for year to Whitsunday 1871, . 85 12 4 6. Miscellaneous, . . . . . 9 0 0 Amount of Eevenue, . 10,147 16 9 III. Balance due by the Bank of Scotland at 31st December 1870, viz. : — On the Governors' Account, .... £1,724 8 2 On the Treasurer's Account, . . . . 90 15 7 1,815 3 9 IV. Sums in the hands of the Steward and Matron, per last Abstract, . 20 0 0 V. Income-Tax due by Government, and outstanding at 31st December 1870, per last Abstract, . . . . . . 109 5 7 VI. Arrears of Pent, etc., on Barras, outstanding at 31st December 1870, 38 10 0 Amount of the Charge, . . £15,164 2 9 Discharge. I. Balance due to Treasurer at 31st December 1870, per last Abstract, £178 2 0 II. Capital Sum invested, viz. : — Loan on Heritable Security, . . . . . 3,000 0 0 Carry forward, £3,178 2 0 * This Loan is repayable in fifteen annual instalments of £33, 6s. 8d. JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 631 Brought forward, £3,178 2 0 III. Paymonts out of Revenue, viz. : — 1. Repairs, Altcratious, and Improvements on the Hospital, and keeping the Grounds in order, . £733 12 3 2. Furnishings, Renewals, and Repairs, . . 160 17 0 £894 9 3 3. Payments on account of the Estato of Barras, viz. i Public Burdens, . . . £398 16 4 Sums expended on Buildings, Drains, Fencing, Trenching, Manure, etc., . . 316 12 9 Expenses of Management, . 65 10 0 Miscellaneous, . . . 69 9 3 4. Payments on account of Property near Edin- burgh, viz. : — Public Burdens, . . . £5 11 11 Feu-duties, . . . 46 2 2 5. Feu-duty, Taxes, etc, for the Hospital, viz. : — Feu-duty, . . . £168 3 5 Minister's Stipend, . . 1 15 5 Annual Payment in lieu of Composition payable every 25th year to Heriot's Hospital, 9 2 7 Assessed Taxes for Servants and Armorial Bearings, 1871, . 6 6 0 Poor-rates, . . . 30 18 9 Washing Clothes at Inglis' Green, 117 16 8 Gas, . . . 87 10 0 Water, . . . 65 0 0 Steward's and Matron's Bills, . 104 9 4£ £2,794 9 4 Clothing- Clothiers, . £212 1 10 Drapers, . Hats, Caps, etc., Boots and Shoes Hosiery, . Making and Repa ing Clothes, Stays, Buttons, . Braces, 237 6 0 18 11 8 310 19 10 64 1 4 185 17 6 1 14 3 7 4 0 14 0 1,039 0 5 850 8 4 51 14 1 216 6 2 6. Annuities, less Income-Tax, . . . 795 0 11 7. Expenses of the Establishment, viz. : — Household Expenses— Victualling, . . . £2,141 1 11J Fuel, viz. : — Scotch Coal, . £189 12 10 Coke, English Coal, and Dross, . 18 13 0 Firewood, . 16 10 0 224 15 10 53 15 6 Carry forward, £3,833 9 9 £2,807 18 9 £3,178 2 0 632 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £3,833 9 9 £2,807 18 9 £3,178 2 0 Sundries — Druggists, . £25 11 0 Haircutting, . 14 0 0 Cleaning Windows, 20 0 0 Sweeping Chimneys, 6 18 3 66 9 3 School-books, Stationery, etc., . 126 8 4 Salaries, viz. : — Surgeon, . . £105 0 0 Teachers, . . 878 19 9 Steward, Gardener, and Assistants, and Men-servants, . 375 1 8 Matron, Housekeep- er, and Female Servants, . 320 10 10 1,679 12 5,705 19 7 8. Allowances to former Pupils, . . . 49 10 0 9. Insurance agaiust Fire, . . . 25 0 6 10. Expenses of Management — Treasurer's Salary, . . £210 0 0 Clerk's Salary, . . 105 0 0 Rent of Committee Room, . 20 0 0 335 0 0 11. Miscellaneous Payments — Printers' Accounts, . £22 2 6 Auditor's Fee, . . . 15 15 0 Business Account, . . 35 9 0 Sundry Disbursements, . . 60 0 5 133 6 11 Amount of Payments out of Revenue, . 9,056 15 9 IV. Balances on Accounts with Bank of Scotland at 31st December 1871, viz. : — On the Governors' Account, .... £2,075 3 0 On the Treasurer's Account, . . . 849 17 8 2,925 0 8 V. Sums in the hands of Steward and Matron to meet small Disburse- ments, . . . . . . . . 20 0 0 VI. Income-Tax for year to Whitsunday 1871, due by Government, and outstanding at 31st December 1871, . . . . 85 12 4 VII. Arrears of Rent, etc., on Barras, outstanding at 31st December 1871, 38 10 0 Amount of the Discharge, . . . .£15,304 0 9 Amount of the Charge, as on page 630, . . 15,164 2 9 Balance due to Treasurer at 31st December 1871, . £139 18 0 From the foregoing Abstract, it will be seen that the Revenue for year 1871 was, as per Branch II. of Charge, .... £10,147 16 9 And the Payments out of Revenue were, per Branch III. of Discharge, 9,056 15 9 Excess of Revenue over Expenditure, . . £1,091 1 0 JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 633 No. II.— View of tho Pkoperty and Funds of tho Hospital, as at 31st Decombor 1871. N.D. — The Value of the Slocks at 31st December 1870, and olst December 1871, is slated at the selling prices on these dates. Property and Funds at 31st Dec. 1870. 31st Dec. 1871. Value of the Hospital and Grounds, as per last year's Statement, .... £118,735 1 5 Valuo of Furnishings, per do., . 5,402 18 1 £124,137 19 G Sum expended on West Coates Church, £2,500 0 0 Lands of Barras, ..... Do. of Broughton Hall, Park, and Gardeu, Sums lent on Heritable Securities, Sum lent to Parochial Board of Dunottar, Balance due by Bank of Scotland on Governors' and Treasurer's Accounts, .... Stock of the Bank of Scotland, £16,000, Do. Bank of England, £2,500, Three per Cent. Consols, £5,000, Arrears of Kent, etc., on Barras, outstanding at 31st December 1870, Arrears of Bent, etc., on Barras, outstanding at 31st December 1871, ..... Sum in the hands of the Steward and Matron, Income-tax for year to Whitsunday 1870, Do. for year to Whitsunday 1871, due by Go- vernment, and outstanding at 31st December 1871, £89,600 0 0 £89,600 0 0 3,325 0 0 3,325 0 0 87,924 7 8 87,924 7 8 . 366 13 4 333 6 8 1,815 3 9 2,925 0 8 43,200 0 0 42,400 0 0 5,800 n 0 5,987 10 0 4,593 15 0 4,612 10 0 . 38 10 0 38 10 0 . 20 0 0 20 0 0 . 109 5 7 85 12 4 £236,792 15 4 £237,251 17 4 Deduct Balances due to Treasurer, 178 2 0 139 18 0 £236,614 13 4 £237,111 19 4 Amount of Property and Funds at 31st December 1870, as above, . £236,614 13 4 Do. do. 31st December 1871, do., . 237,111 19 4 Increase at 31st December 1871, . . . £497 6 Arising from — Excess of Bevenue over Expenditure, as shown on page 632, . . . . . £1,091 1 0 Deduct — Decrease on tho value of the Stocks, viz. : — Value at 31st December 1870, £53,593 15 0 Do. at 31st December 1871, 53,000 0 0 593 15 0 £497 6 0 No. III.— View of tho Estimated Revenue or Annual Income of the Hospital, and of the Probable Expenditup.k, for the Year to 31st Decombor 1872. Interest on £87,924, 7s. 8d., lent on Heritable Securities at 4 per cont. to Martinmas 1872, say ..... £3,500 0 0 Interest on £333, 6s. 8d., lent to Parochial Board of Dunottar at 4| per cent, to Martinmas 1872, say . . . . . . 15 0 0 Interest on Sums in Bank, say . . . . . . 20 0 0 Carry forward, £3,535 0 0 634 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £3,535 0 0 Dividends on Bank of England Stock, . . . £235 0 0 Do. Bank of Scotland Stock, . . . 1,850 0 0 Do. Three per Cent. Consols, . . 150 0 0 2,235 0 0 Rental of— Estate of Barras, including Interest received from Tenants, say £4,200 0 0 Property near Edinburgh, and Grass at Hospital, say . 200 0 0 4,400 0 0 Miscellaneous Receipts, . . . . . . . 10 0 0 Gross Estimated Revenue of the Hospital, £10,180 0 0 But from this fall to be deducted the following sums, to meet— Public Burdens, etc., for Barras, say . . . £350 0 0 Buildings, Improvements, Allowances to Tenants, Ex- penses of Management, etc., for Barras, say . . 800 0 0 £1,150 0 0 Taxes, Feu-duties, Repairs, etc., for Edinburgh Property, 50 0 0 1,200 0 0 Net Revenue, £8,980 0 0 Against this sum there stand the following estimated Annual Payments, viz. : — Expenses of Repairs, etc., on the Hospital Buildings, Furniture, etc., and keeping the Grounds in order, say £1,000 0 0 Salaries, say ...... 2,150 0 0 Insurance, ...... 25 0 0 Church Seat-rents, for 3 years, . 300 0 0 Rent of Committee Room, . 20 0 0 Feu-duty for Hospital, , 177 6 0 Taxes for do., .... 60 0 0 Coke, Coal, etc., ...... 250 0 0 Gas, . • . * } . * . ww » 80 0 0 Water, ....... 65 0 0 Soap, and Washing at Inglis' Green, 170 0 0 Steward's and Matron's Bills, . 110 0 0 School-books, Stationery, etc., . 120 0 0 Law and Printers' Accounts, and Miscellaneous Ex- penses of Management, . 250 0 0 Sundries — Druggists, Cleaning Windows, Sweeping Chimneys, etc., ...... 72 14 0 Allowances to former Pupils, . 70 0 0 £4,920 0 0 Annuities and Grants, . 800 0 0 Note. — In course of time these Annuities will fall in ; meanwhile the whole amount of these must be treated as a deduction from Income. 5,720 0 0 Leaving for the Maintenance of Teachers, Children, and Household Servants, . . . . . . . . £3,260 0 0 The sum paid for Victualling in 1871 was, as per Dis- charge, Branch III., sec. 7, £2,141, Is. ll^d. ; but say for 1872, . £2,150 0 0 The sum paid for Clothing in 1871 was, as per do., £1,039, 0s 5d. ; but say for 1872, 1,050 0 0 3,200 0 0 Probable Excess of Revenue, £60 0 0 JAMES DONALDSON'S HOSPITAL. 635 No. IV.— Estimate of tho Expenditure for the Year 1871, with tho Experience of that Year. Estimate for Experience of 1871. 1871. Public Burdens, Buildings, Expenses of Management, etc., for Estato of Barras, ..... £1,300 0 0 £850 8 4 Taxes, Repairs, etc., on the Edinburgh Property, . 50 0 0 51 14 1 Repairs on Hospital Buildings, Furniture, etc., and Grounds, 900 0 0 894 9 3 Salarios, including Surgeon's, Treasurer's, and Clerk's, 2,150 0 0 1,994 12 3 Insurance, ....... 25 0 0 25 0 6 Church Seat-rents, ...... 100 0 0 0 0 0* Rent of Committee Room, ..... 20 0 0 20 0 0 Feu-duty for Hospital, ..... 177 G 0 177 6 0 Taxes for do., . . . . 50 0 0 39 0 2 uoke, L-oaJ, etc., ...... OKA iO\J U 10 10 Gas, . 'XvdfljoosU teiG ir. e» 80 0 0 87 10 0 Water, 65 0 0 65 0 0 Soap, and "Washing at Inglis' Green, 170 0 0 171 12 2 Steward's and Matron's Bills, .... 110 0 0 104 9 4* School-books, Stationery, etc., .... 100 0 0 126 8 4 Law and Printers' Accounts, and Miscellaneous Payments, 230 0 0 133 6 11 Sundries — Druggists, Cleaning Windows, etc. 72 14 0 66 9 3 Maintenance of Teachers, Children, and Household Servants, 2,100 0 0 2,141 1 Ui Clothing, ... 1,100 0 0 1,039 0 5 Allowances to former Pupils, .... 70 0 0 49 10 0 £9,120 0 0 £8,261 14 10 Annuities and Grants, ..... 795 0 11 Total Annual Expenditure for 1871, as per Branch III. of Discharge, £9,056 15 9 No. V. — View of the Funds expended on Buildings and Furnishings, as at 3lst December 1871. /. Sums expended on the Hospital. The Total Payments for the Building, per Treasurer's Report of 31st December 1858, were £118,735 1 5 II. Sums expended on Furnishings for the Hospital. The Total Payments for Furnishings for the Hospital, per the Treasurer's Report of 31st December 1853, were ..... £5,402 18 1 Note.— All payments now made on account of Buildings and Furnishings are stated under the head of Repairs, Alterations, and Furnishings. HI. Sum expended on West Coates Church. Amount of the Governors' Subscription towards Erection of Church at West Coates, in which there is an allotment of Scats for the Inmates of tho Hospital • £2,500 0 0 No. VI.— Comparative View of Funds as at Mr. Donaldson's Death and as at 31st Decembor 1871. According to a Report mado out by tho lato Mr. Irving, which was printed and circulated amongst tho Governors immediately after their appointment, and which will bo found appended to printed * The sum authorized to be paid for Church Seat-rents was not accepted by the Manager of the Church, and therefore remains unpaid. 636 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Minute of Meeting of date loth October 1845, the amount of Trust- Funds at Mr. Donaldson's death was ..... £215,377 0 0 The amount of the present Funds, taking the value of the Stocks as at 30th December 187 L (exclusive of the value of the Hospital and Furnishings, and sum contributed to West Coates Church, per Stato No. II., page 633, is 237,111 19 4 The Increase, therefore, of Funds since Mr. Donaldson's death is apparently £21,734 19 4* Humbly reported by JOHN COOK, Treasurer. Edinburgh, Wi February 1872. APPENDIX. Annual Salaries to Teachers, as at 31st December 1871. House-Governor, £300 0 0 Master, Deaf and Dumb, 250 0 0 First Teacher, do. (Salary, £85 ; Allowance for Board, £40), 125 o 0 Second Teacher, do. . 20 0 0 Third Teacher, do. . 20 0 0 Female Teacher, do. . 40 0 0 Assistant Female Teacher, do. 10 0 0 First Teacher of Hearing Children, . 60 0 0 Second Teacher of do. 60 0 0 Third Teacher of do. 35 0 0 Teacher of Sewing, 35 0 0 Teacher of Drawing, . 40 0 0 Teacher of Vocal Music, 20 0 0 Drill-Master, . 5s. per lesson, say 22 10 0 Band-Master, .... 4s. per lesson, say 7 10 0 £1,085 0 0 NOTE. Extract from Testament. — ' To build and found an Hospital for Boys and Girls, to be ' called Donaldson's Hospital, preferring those of the name of Donaldson and Marshall, <■ — to be after the plan of the Orphan Hospital in Edinburgh and John "Watson's 'Hospital;' and by the same deed he appointed Trustees for executing this Will. It was further ' appointed ' in the Deed of Constitution executed by the Trustees, that the Governors were ' to choose and admit from time to time into the said Hospital such a ' number of Poor Children, one half of whom shall be boys and the other half girls, as ' the funds may at the time be sufficient to maintain, clothe, and educate, of which the 1 said Governors ' were to be the sole judges; 'such children to be clothed and maintained 1 in the said Hospital, and taught and instructed in such useful branches of education as ' may be considered by the said Governors to be suitable to their station, sex, and age ; ' declaring that no children shall be admitted to the benefit of the said charity whose ' parents are able to maintain them.' By the Deed of Constitution the following were and continue to be ex officio Governors and Trustees, viz.: the Lord Justice-General, the Lord Clerk Begister, the Lord Advocate, the Lord Provost of Edinburgh, the Lord-Lieutenant of the County of Midlothian, the Principal of the University of Edinburgh, the senior Minister of the Established Church in the Town of Edinburgh, the two Ministers of the Parish of St. Cuthbert's, the Prescs of the College of Physicians, the Treasurer of the Bank of Scotland, and the Secretary of the Bank of Scotland. The other fifteen were appointed by name; and it was directed that the three whose names were uppermost on the list should go out of office annually, and that three others should be elected by the Governors, 'by lists to be given in by the ' Governors,' — no person being eligible for re-election who had been out of office for less than a year. * This increase on the Funds since Mr. Donaldson's death has arisen chiefly from the estate of Barras being estimated, not at its original cost (£73,500), but at 28 years' value of its free rental, and from the increase in value of Bank and Government Stocks held by the Governors. FETTES COLLEGE. 037 FETTES COLLEGE, COMELY BANK, NEAR EDINBURGH. I. Nature op Foundation. 1. The Founder, Sir William Fettes, of Comely Bank, Baronet, died on 27th May 1836; but the building of the College was not completed until 5th October 1870, when it was opened. 2. (1.) To ' form an endowment for the maintenance, education, and outfit of young people, whose parents have either died without leaving sufficient funds for that purpose, or who from innocent misfortune, during their own lives, are unable to give suitable education to their children.' (2.) No subsequent statutes or ordinances other than the resolutions of the Trustees in their minutes,* and the prospectus of the Endowment issued in terms thereof, sent herewith.*)" (3.) A printed copy of the Founder's Will and codicils is sent herewith. 3. At the death of Sir William Fettes, the capital, including the value then put on his heritable estate, amounted to £171,163, 14s. lOd. The expenses of building the College and two boarding-houses have not yet all been paid ; but when this is done, it is estimated that the capital, with its accumulations, including the value of the heritable estates as valued in 1857, or since acquired, will amount to £245,000, and that the gross income will then be £8070, and the nett income £7000. Funds now in- vested in landed estates and bank stock. 4. The trust is constituted by the trust-disposition and settlement, and relative codicils, of the Founder. The Trustees now acting are — (1) The Right Honourable the Lord Justice - General, 30 Abercromby Place, Edinburgh ; (2) The Honourable Bouverie Francis Primrose, 22 Moray Place, Edinburgh; (3) David Anderson, Esquire, of Moredun, Liberton ; (4) Archibald Campbell Swinton, Esquire, of Kimmerghame, Dunse; (5) Robert Dunclas, Esquire, of Arniston, Gorebridge. 5. No. 6. They are appointed under powers of assumption, contained in the Founder's trust-deed. 7. The Head-Master has the direct control of the staff, discipline, etc., subject to the approval of the Trustees. 8. It is. The trust deed gives the Trustees the most ample and unlimited powers for making all such regulations as they shall consider proper for the management of the Endowment. 9. Boys, 50 ; of whom 28 are fatherless ; of whom 22, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. None. 11. Five vacancies, and 49 applicants. * Seo p. 644. f Peo p. CA x. 638 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 12. (1.) Cecil Reddie, an orphan ; 10 of a family having £20 each. Father was Deputy- Controller of Navy Pay ; died suddenly. (2.) G. W. Willock ; father alive ; was obliged to leave Bengal Civil Service from ill health on small pension. (3.) F. C. Logan Home ; father dead ; entailed proprietor, leaving younger children and widow badly provided for. (4.) G. L. Horan; father alive, a Colonel in the Army; has sustained severe losses by fraudulent failure of a solicit or. (5.) G. F. Campbell ; father a Major in the Army ; alive, but sustained severe losses during Indian Mutiny. 13. None enter under 10 or above 14. No fixed period for leaving. 14. None. There is an entrance examination. See particulars sent herewith. 15. Yes. In the Trustees. 1G. The Trustees have out of the funds of the Endowment already established two Exhibitions to the University of Edinburgh of £60 each ; one of these for Foundationers alone, and the other for both Foundationers and non-Foundationers. Other Exhibitions and Fellowships will be estab- lished when the funds admit, but not necessarily attached to the University of Edinburgh. 17. None. 18. Eighty-nine. 19. In their eligibility to compete for Exhibitions, with the exception of one Scholarship to University of Edinburgh, which is restricted to Foundationers. See prospectus sent herewith, p. 648. 20. The accounts of the trust are audited at 31st December, and those of the College on or about 20th September annually, by Messrs. Lindsay, Jamieson, and Haldane, C.A., 24 St. Andrew Square, Edinburgh. The College not being fully organized, the accounts for the last financial year do not exhibit a complete view of the revenue and expense of the Institu- tion when in full operation ; but a statement of the cost of the maintenance of the College for that period, prepared by the Accountants, is sent here- with. The reports of the Auditor for each year since the date of the trust can be produced if required. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1 Fifty boys. 2. All the Foundationers reside in the College, but for the accommoda- tion of non-Foundationers there are two boarding-houses, containing about 32 boys each ; and a third boarding-house, to contain 55 boys, is in course of erection. 3. No. 4. There is no rule restricting the visits of parents or friends. Boys are allowed to visit parents or parents' friends about once in three weeks. They generally go after early chapel on Sunday, and return to Sunday lesson at 4.30 p.m. Edinburgh, Leith, and Granton are out of bounds. The country is open ; but practically the boys are generally in the close. Half-holiday Wednesday and Saturday. Occasional half-holidays. There are also seven weeks' holidays in summer, three at Christmas, and three in spring. 5. Impositions inflicted by the several Masters. Caning by the Tutors, who are requested to discuss the offence first with the Head-Master. In case of serious school offences, flogging is inflicted by the Head- Master. No record is kept. 6. They have the management of the games a good deal in their own hands. They are also responsible for order in dormitories to some extent ; FETTES COLLEGE. 039 but owing to the youth of the senior boys, their power is not nt present as extensive as it will be. 7. There arc callings over in the afternoons of holidays, but regular attendance at school games renders much supervision unnecessary. '11 ic Tutors visit the dormitories occasionally, but no Master remains through I he night. 8. Dimensions of dormitories : A and D 48ft. X 15ft. X 12ft. 8,640 cubic ft. Contains 10 beds. B and C 68ft. X 27ft. X lift. 20,196 „ „ 18 „ E 48ft. X 20ft. X 15ft. 18,720 „ „ 11 „ Each Pupil has a separate bed. 9. Cricket, football, fives, gymnastics. Attendance at games is com- pulsory on holidays. The field used for cricket, football, etc., is nearly 10 acres. 10. Warm bath compulsory once a week. Daily sponge bath encou- raged. Hair shampooed and cut three times a term. Sanitary arrange- ments very good. 11. None in two years. 12. A 24 hours' time-table and usual dietary scale for a week are filed herewith. Twenty-four Hours' Time-Table. (See also p. 650.) Monday and Friday. Tuesday and Thursday. Wednesday and Saturday. 7.30—8.30 Work. 7.30—8.30 Work. 8.30—8.45 Chapel. 8.30—8.45 Chapel. Same. 8.45—9.30 Breakfast. 8.45—9.30 Breakfast. 9.30—12.0 Work. 9.30—11.0 Work. 12.0—1.15 Gymnastics. 11.15-12.45 Work. 1.30—2.0 Dinner. 12.45-1.30 Free. 2.0 3.30 Exercise. 1.30—2.0 Dinner. 3.30—6.0 Work. 2.0 4.0 Exercises. No Afternoon Work. 6.15 Tea. 4.0 6.0 Work. 7.15—8.45 Preparation. Supper. Evening- as on Monday and Evening as on other days. 8.45 Friday. 9.15 Prayers. 9.30 Bed. Dietary Scale. Breakfast. — 2 days salt meat, with tea. or coffee, bread and butter. „ 1 day eggs ,, 4 days slice of cold meat ,, Dinners.* — Sunday, Cold roast beef and potatoes. ,, ,, Cold fruit tart or hot plum-pudding. ,, 4 days Hot roast meat and vegetables. Puddings. „ 1 day Soup or fish. Stewed meat, or meat pies and vegetables. „ „ Soup. Cold meat (salt). Tea.— Plain. Supper. — Porridge, or bread and cheese with beer. III. Instruction. 1. Twelve are sons of officers in the army, mostly dead; 14 sons of * One glass of beer is given at dinner, and a small glass at night. Many boys do not take it. 640 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. ministers of various churches ; seven sons of merchants in impoverished circumstances ; three sons of gentlemen reduced through bank failures, etc. ; three sons of gentlemen who have held Government appointments ; 11 miscellaneous. Total, 50. 2. No. The education is a liberal classical one. The boys as yet are not old enough to receive special training for examinations. 3. Time-table filed. 4. See separate papers filed. 5. The only text-book in use is the Bible. Instruction in it given by Classical Masters. Sunday Time- Table. 8.30-8.45 — Morning Prayer in Chapel. 8.45— Breakfast. 11— Church. 1.30— Dinner. 4.30-5.30 — Bible Lesson in the several Forms. 6— Tea. 6.80-7. 15— Preparation. 7.30-8.30 — Evening Service in Chapel, conducted by the Masters. 9.30— Bed. 6. Twenty-seven. Examination. Yes. To the head of each form. To the first in Mathematics and Modern Languages in each form. One or two for Natural Science. According to the result of the examination. 7. Yes. The rooms are very good. The largest are 48ft. by 24ft. Of these there are four. The smallest, 24ft. by 22ft. There are small libraries in each house, and for the Foundationers in College. There is also a school library, open at present to the upper form only. 8. The Trustees. Ho takes the classical instruction of the highest form. Visits the other forms occasionally. He appoints the Masters, subject to approval by Trustees, who practically leave the matter in his hands. The Head-Master holds office during the pleasure of the Trustees Six months' notice on either side to be given when an engagement is put an end to. He has the right of dismissing a Master, subject to a right of appeal to the Trustees. 9. A. M. Bell, M.A., and C. C. Cotterill, M.A., House-Masters, each £G00 per annum, of which £420 comes from fees ; house rent free. W. A Heard, B.A., £300 from fees. J. Blaikie, M.A., £350 from fees. Hei Goldschmidt, £250 from fees. VV. Forster, B.A., £250 from fees Christopher Hayden, B.A., £250 from fees. Head-Master, £1150, of which £150 comes from fees. 10. No. But the Head-Master has suggested the institution of a funa with the object of paying off old Masters. 11. The first examination of this kind took place last summer. A copy of the Report is sent herewith. 12. 13, 14. Not applicable. FETTES COLLEGE. 041 Report by the Auditor eai the Fettes College Accounts, from 21st Sep- tember 1871 (the commencement of Second Session) to 20th September 1872 (the commencement of Third do.). No. I. — Statement showing the Cost of the Maintenance of Fettes College for Session 1871-72, after deducting the Sums received from tho Boarding-house Pupils and Day Scholars. There were 45 Foundationers, an average of 50 Hoarders, and during part of the session two Day Scholars. 1. Board and Maintenance of Pupils — Outlay for Provisions, Wages, Coal, Gas, Scat Bents, etc., . 2. Tuition Expenses— Amount of the Tuition Fund applicable to payments of Masters' Salaries, Examiners' Fees, Prizes, etc., .... 3. Head-Master's Salary, ....... 4. Medical Officer's Salary, ....... 5. Taxes and Fire Insurance, ....... 6. Gardeners' Wages and Upkeep of Grounds, .... Note. — The expenses connected with the Garden and Grounds exceeded this sum, but it is thought that any sum over £500 may be regarded as preliminary expenses. 7. Repairs on Buildings and Fixtures, and Upkeep of Household Fur- nishings, . . . . . Note. — This sum of £500 is set aside by the Trustees each year for Repairs, etc. ; any surplus arising in one year will go to meet deficiency in subsequent years. The actual ex- penditure on Repairs during Session 1871-72 was less than £500. 8. Expenses of Management and Miscellaneous Payments- Salary to Clerk to the Trustees, . . . £105 0 0 Auditor's Fee, 31 10 0 Miscellaneous Expenses, .... 149 3 9 Note. — The first two items have not yet been adjusted or paid for Session 1871-72; they are stated at the same as for Session 1870-71. £8,803 9 0 Deduct — Sums received from Pupils— From Boarding-house Pupils, £64, 4s. per annum for Board, Superintendence in House, Washing, and Seat Rents, and £25 per annum for Tuition, . £4,484 13 5 From Day Scholars, at the rate of £30, 15s. per an- num for Board and Washing, and £25 for Tuition, 37 3 4 £4,521 1G 9 Less — Proportion of two Scholarships of ,€40 each, paid for the Summer Term 1872, , . . . . 2G 13 4 4,405 3 5 Net Cost for Session 1871-72, . . . £4,308 5 7 £3,594 4 0 2,5C9 4 5 1,000 0 0 157 10 0 196 16 4 500 0 0 500 0 0 285 13 9 During the Session 1871-72 the full number of Foundationers and Boarding- house Pupils had not been admitted. With the exception of the cost of pro- visions and tuition expenses, the expenditure of the College will not be increased on the admission of the additional number of Pupils for whom accommodation 2 s 642 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. is already provided, while the payments made by them will tend to reduce the net cost of the College. Any reduction of this cost which may be due to the admission of more than 60 Boarders will be profit from the third Boarding-house, and will fall to be credited to the account of that house until its cost is liquidated. No. II. — Estimate of College Expenditure with Fifty Foundationers, Four Scholars, and Sixty Boarders, based on the results of Session 1871-72. Board and Maintenance of Pupils — Outlay for Provisions, Wages, Coal, Gas, Seat Rents, etc., . Tuition — Amount of Tuition Fund applicable to payment of Salaries to Masters, Examiners' Fees, Prizes, etc., Head-Master's Salary, .... Medical Officer's Salary, Taxes and Fire Insurance, Expenses of Garden and Upkeep of Grounds, Sum set aside annually for Repairs to Buildings, etc., Expenses of Management and Miscellaneous Payments, Deduct — Sums received from Pupils — From 60 Boarders, at £89, 4s. each per annum, From four Scholars in the College, at do., . . . £356 16 Less — Four Scholarships of £40, granted to them by Trustees, . 160 0 £4,313 1 6 3,060 0 0 1,000 0 0 157 10 0 196 16 4 500 0 0 500 0 0 285 13 9 £10,013 1 7 £5,352 0 0 196 16 0 Net Cost as Estimated, 5,548 16 0 £4,464 5 7 The total expenditure, as now estimated, is considerably below the net income of the Trust, which may safely be taken at £7000 a year. With the present investments it considerably exceeds that sum. Edinburgh, 26th December 1872. State of the Affairs of the Trust Estate of Sir William Fettes, of Comely Bank, Bart., deceased, as at 31st December 1871. Funds and Estate. I. Heritable Estate which belonged to the Truster, as valued by Mr. John Dickson, in 1857— 1. Estate of Arnsheen 2. Estate of Denbrae . 3. Lands of Gogar Bank 4. Lands of Comely Bank 5. Nursery at do. ^ £23,870 7 10 6. Feu-duties of Dwelling-house at do. Deduct — Value of Avenue Villas and Black's Entry subjects, entered below, say ... 1,750 0 0 22,120 7 10 £44,095 1 22,331 7 14,120 10 Carry forward, £102,667 6 8 FETTES COLLEGE. Brought forward, . , £102,667 6 8 II. Heritable Property which has been acquired by the Trustees — 1. Under Declarator of Irritancy, ob non solutum canonem, against Cunningham, the Feuar of Comely Bank Nursery, in respect of Arrears of Feu-duties — 1. Avenue Villas at Comely Bank . . L £1 "~0 0 0 2. Black's Entry subjects at do. . .. > ' 2. Purchased by the Trustees — Estate of Drumlamford, stated at the price paid . . . £14,300 0 0 Estate of Whiterig, do. . . 3,150 0 0 Estate of Inverleith, do. . . 33,000 0 0 Estate of Herdshill, do. . . 3,500 0 0 82,300 0 0 3. Moredun Crescent Houses — Amount expended to 31st December 1871 . . 4,465 4 4 88,515 4 4 Amount 31st Dec. 1870, per last Eeport . £4,245 0 0 During 1871 . . . 220 4 4 Amount . . . £4,465 4 4 III. Stock of the British Linen Co.'s Bank — £40,000 Stock vested in the Trustees, at £268, 10s. per cent., the selling price at 31st December 1871 107,400 0 0 Amount to 31st Dec. 1870, per last Report, £47,100 0 0 Sold during 1871 .... 7,100 0 0 At 31st Dec. 1871 . . £40,000 0 0 IV. Stocks purchased by the Trustees — 500 £10 shares of the Girvan and Portpatrick Railway Company, £2 per share paid up at par . . . . . . 1,000 0 0 V. Fettes College- No value need here be put upon the College. VI. Debts due to the Trust— 1. Debts due by sundries, as in previous Reports . £582 17 3 2. Sums invested in Astronomical Institution . . 26 5 0 609 2 3 Note. — No value is put on these, for the reasons stated in previous Reports. VII. Value of Furniture in Drumlamford House and Duisk Lodge — 1. In Drumlamford House — Price of Furniture purchased .... £484 10 8* 2. In Duisk Lodge — Value of Furniture which belonged to the Truster . . . £25 8 11 Price of Furniture purchased since his death . . . 361 9 8i 386 18 1\ 871 9 4 Note.— The plate which belonged to Sir Wm. Fettes, valued at £332, Is. lid., has been handed over to the Steward at Fettes College. VIII. Arrears of Rents — Arrears of Rents outstanding at 31st December 1871 . . . 639 8 1 Amount, £301,093__8_5 Exclusive of value of items No. V. and VI. 644 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Debts. I. Sums borrowed by the Trustees— From the North British and Mercantile Insurance Co. on Prom. Note £10 000 0 o From Mr. and Mrs. Carr's Trustees on do. ... . 3',500 0 0 From do. on do. . 5,000 0 0 £18,500 u A u II. Cash Balance due by the Trust Estate— At 31st December 1871 ...... . 12,625 Q O 9 Amount, £31,125 3 2 Amount of funds, as on preceding page £301,093 8 5 Amount of debts, as above . . . 31,125 3 2 Total of Funds and Estate at 31st December 1871, as estimated exclusive of the College buildings and furnishings £269,908 5 3 Subject to— Payment of liferent Annuities bequeathed by Truster, amounting, as at 31st December 1871, to £271. Note.— The above Statement of Funds does not include the following sums, which the Trustees have now in hand, for special purposes— 1. Balance due to the Anderson Exhibition Fund .... £44 8 2 2. Balance due to Fund for Repairs to College Buildings, ete. . . 500 0 0 £544 8 2 Regulations for the Management of the Fettes Endowment, the endowment. 1. Endowment. — The whole free residue of the trust estate of the late Sir William Fettes shall constitute 'The Fettes Endowment, for the Education, Maintenance, and Outfit of Young People, whose parents have either died without leaving sufficient funds for that purpose, or who, from innocent mis- fortune during their own lives, are unable to give suitable education to their children.' MANAGEMENT. 2. Trustees. — The management of the Endowment shall be in the persons holding, for the time being, the office of Trustees in accordance with the pro- visions for their appointment contained in Sir William Fettes's trust disposition ; and such Trustees shall have ' the most ample and unlimited powers for making all such regulations as to the number of children to be ad- mitted from time to time, the manner in which they are to be educated and fitted out, and for the management of the funds of the said Endowment, as they shall from time to time consider proper and expedient, as well as in re- gard to the appointment of all persons necessary for carrying into effect the objects of such an institution.' :!. Meetings. — The Trustees shall hold such Meetings from time to time as may be necessary for the management of the Endowment, and no change shall be made in the Regulations under which its affairs are conducted, except at a Meeting regularly called. So long as the Trustees do not exceed five in number, any three shall be a quorum. The senior Trustee present at any Meeting shall be Chairman, and shall have a casting as well as a deliberative vote. FETTES COLLEGE. 645 4. Clerk. — The Trustees shall appoint a fit person to be Clerk, who shall call and attend all Meetings of Trustees, keep the Minutes, and conduct, under their directions, all correspondence. The Clerk shall be removable at pleasure, and shall receive a suitable remuneration for his trouble. 5. Auditor. — The Auditor shall once every year audit the whole accounts of the trust, and prepare an abstract to be laid before the Trustees, accompanied by a report, stating whether the income of the Endowment has been exceeded by the expenditure, or the contrary, and specifying the amount of the deficiency or surplus. 6. Management of Trust Funds. — If at any time, after the building for the purposes of the Endowment has been completed, and the scheme is in operation, it shall appear that the sums paid or payable during any year exceed the clear available income and revenue of such year, such excess shall be reimbursed and made good out of the first monies which shall be received on account of the trust ; and the Trustees shall thereafter, at their discretion, so decrease or alter all or any of the yearly or other payments out of the funds of the trust, as that the expenditure shall not exceed the income. 7. When and as often as the Auditor shall report that there remains a sur- plus of the income and revenue of the trust above the annual expenditure, it shall be competent for the Trustees to appropriate and apply such surplus in any way which they shall consider most likely to promote the increased efficiency of the Endowment. THE FOUNDATION. 8. Fettes College. — The building on the grounds of Comely Bank shall be called ■ The Fettes College,' and shall be surrounded by at least twenty acres of land laid out as garden-ground, or play-ground for the boys. 9. Foundationers. — Fifty boys shall be admitted on the Foundation, who shall be maintained and educated in the College at the expense of the Endow- ment. Their admission shall take place at Meetings of the Trustees specially called for the purpose.* 10. The boys to be thus admitted as Foundationers shall be the sons of persons who have either died without leaving sufficient funds, or who, from innocent misfortune, are unable, during their own lives, to afford their children the means of obtaining a liberal education suitable to their position in life. 11. No boy shall be admitted as a Foundationer until he shall have attained the age of ten years complete ; and no boy shall be permitted to remain in the College beyond the close of the half-yearly session during which he shall have attained the age of eighteen years complete, or if he shall attain that age during the vacation, beyond the close of the preceding session, except under such special circumstances as shall appear to the Trustees to warrant a departure from this rule. 12. Applications for admission as Foundationers shall be filled in on printed schedules, to be furnished for that purpose by the Clerk of the Endow- ment, and shall be lodged with him six weeks at least before the day appointed for the admission of boys. Every such application shall state the name and age of the boy on whose behalf it is made, and the circumstances in the condition of his parents or nearest relations on which the application is founded, and shall be accompanied by evidence of his age. The granting or rejection of any appli- cation, and the selection of the boys to be admitted as Foundationers, shall be entirely in the discretion of the Trustees. But no boy shall be admitted on the Foundation who is not found on examination to be able to read intelligently a chapter of the New Testament, and write a portion of the same correctly to dictation, and to work examples in the four rules of Simple Arithmetic. * But during the first year after the building is completed, and ready to bo inhabited, not more than forty Foundationers shall be admitted ; and, in like manner, not more than five shall be admitted during each of the second and third years respectively, besides supplying any vacancies that may have occurred among those previously admitted. Of the forty boys who may be admitted to the Foundation during the first ) r ear after the building is completed, one-half shall be between the ages of ton and twelve, and ono-half above the age of twelve. Those boys who shall be admitted after thoy are twelve years of age, shall be required to pass an examination of a more advanced character than that prescribed for ordinary Foundationers ; and shall be required, in addition, to produce certificates of good conduct and character from their former Master or Tutor, 646 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 13. Every Foundationer shall be required, on his admission, and on hi& ±e- turn to the College after every vacation, to bring with him a supply of suit- able wearing apparel sufficient to last, with ordinary repairs, till the next vacation. 14. Examinations. — Periodical Examinations shall take place, under such regulations as may be resolved on by the Trustees. And every Foundationer shall, at the close of the session during which he shall have attained the age of fourteen years complete, or if he shall attain that age during the vacation, at the close of the preceding session, undergo a Special Examination, and shall not be permitted to continue on the Foundation unless his progress in his studies shall be proved by sach Examination to have been, under all the circumstances, satisfactory. 15. Church Attendance. — The Foundationers, and such of the Pupils as re- side in the boarding-houses within the College grounds, shall be required to be present daily at morning and evening prayers within the College, and shall attend divine service, once at least every Sunday, in such place of public worship in connection with the Church of Scotland as the Trustees shall appoint ; and on every such occasion they shall be accompanied by one at least of the Masters. But it shall be competent for the Head-Master, in the case of boys whose parents or guardians shall prefer their attendance at other places of worship, to make such arrangements for that purpose as may seem to him proper. 16. Vacations. — There shall be two vacations in the year — one of eight weeks in summer and autumn, and one of three weeks at Christmas. The parents or guardians of Foundationers shall be required to make arrangements, free of all expense to the Endowment, for their travelling expenses to and from the College, and for their maintenance during the vacations. PUPILS NOT ON THE FOUNDATION. 17. Pupils not Foundationers. — There shall be received at the College as Pupils not on the Foundation such number of boys as the Trustees shall from time to time determine. Their admission shall not be subject to the conditions prescribed for that of Foundationers, and such fees shall be exacted from them as shall be hereafter fixed by the Trustees. 18. Boarding-houses. — There shall be erected on the College grounds two or more boarding-houses, in which Pupils may reside under charge of Under - Masters or other persons approved of by the Trustees. This accommodation is designed for boys whose homes are at a distance, and for others whose parents or guardians may desire to place them under complete College superintendence. 19. The Pupils not being Foundationers, nor resident in the boarding- houses, shall, with the exception of Sundays and holidays, attend during the day at the College, and may dine along with the Foundationers in the Dining- Hall on such terms as the Trustees shall from time to time determine. ESTABLISHMENT. 20. Head-Master. — The Trustees shall appoint a Head-Master to take the general superintendence of the College, and personally to instruct the more advanced boys. He shall be specially responsible for the religious training of all the Pupils ; and shall every day conduct, or cause one of the Under-Masters to conduct, morning and evening worship in the College. He shall also, from time to time, assign to each of the Under-Masters the share which such Master shall take, both in the daily instruction of the boys, and in superintending them during the preparation of their lessons and otherwise. His salary and emoluments shall be fixed from time to time by the Trustees. 21. Under-Masters. — The Trustees shall appoint, from time to time, as many Under-Masters as may be necessary, who shall receive such salaries as may be hereafter fixed. One at least of the Under-Masters shall reside in the College, and all of them shall be subject to the general directions of the Head-Master, and shall perform such duties in connection with the teaching and super- intendence of the boys as he shall assign to them. 22. It shall be competent for the Trustees at any time to dispense with the services of the Head-Master, or of any of the Under-Masters, on giving them six months' notice or half a year's salary ; and it shall be competent for any of FETTES COLLEGE. 647 the Masters to resign their situations on giving six months' notice, or on for- feiture of half a year's salary, but not otherwise, without the special permission of the Trustees. 23. House Steward. — The Trustees shall appoint a House Steward, whose duty it shall be, in conjunction with the Matron, to superintend, under the directions of the Head-Master, the whole domestic arrangements. 24. Matron. — The Trustees shall appoint a Matron, whose duty it shall be to superintend, in conjunction with the House Steward, the domestic arrange- ments, to take charge of the clothes of the Foundationers, and carefully to attend to their health, in which she shall be assisted by one of the female servants as Nurse. EDUCATION. 25. Education to be given. — The education given in the College shall be, in the full sense of the term, a liberal education, and shall include, besides Religious Instruction, English, Latin, Greek, Mathematics, Modern Languages, and such branches of Scientific or Artistic Instruction as the Trustees may from time to time appoint. As a general rule, all the boys shall attend the regular course of instruction ; but it shall be competent for the Head-Master, in regard to boys above fourteen years of age, to dispense with their attendance on certain departments of study, for the purpose of their paying more attention to those branches for which they show a special capacity, or which may be most suitable to their probable destination in life. 26. Prizes. — The Trustees shall annually appropriate out of the funds of the Endowment such a sum as they may think proper, to be expended in Money Prizes, varying in amount ; which Prizes shall be awarded to such of the Foundationers as may be selected as most worthy of such rewards, and shall be paid to their parents or guardians, to be applied, with the concurrence of the Trustees, towards their outfit or advancement in life. EXHIBITIONS AND FELLOWSHIPS. 27. Exhibitions. — In accordance with Sir William Fettes's trust disposition, by which the Trustees are specially empowered, ' if they shall think expedient and proper, to pay out of the funds set aside for the Endowment such sum or sums as they from time to time may think proper, for finishing the education of such of the children of the Institution as they may select, by sending them to the University of Edinburgh, or such other University as the Trustees may think proper,' there shall, five years after the opening of the College, and annually thereafter, be offered for competition two Exhibitions, of the annual value of £60 each, to be called 'Fettes Exhibitions,' and to be tenable for four years. One of such Exhibitions shall be open for competition among the Foundationers alone ; and the other among the Foundationers and such of the other Pupils as have regularly attended the College since they were twelve years of age. The examination for such Exhibitions shall embrace all the branches of education usually taught at the College : and it shall be competent for the Head- Master, on any occasion, to withhold both or either of such Exhibitions if there shall not be a sufficient number of competitors, or if the competitors shall not pass a satisfactory examination. 28. The successful competitors for these Exhibitions shall be required to proceed to the University of Edinburgh, and to follow the curriculum prescribed for a degree in Arts. In order to entitle any Exhibitioner to receive the amount of his Exhibition for any year after the first, he shall be required to produce certificates of regular attendance and good conduct from the Professors whose classes he shall have attended during the preceding session.* 29. Fellowships. — There shall be provided from the funds of the Endow- ment a sum sufficient to enable the Trustees to found two Fellowships, to be held by Graduates in Arts of the University of Edinburgh, who have been educated for four years at least at the Fettes College — such Fellowships to be of the annual value of £100 each, to be held for such a term of years, and to be subject to such other conditions and regulations, as the Trustees shall hereafter prescribe. * The Trustees have it in contemplation, when the state of their funds admits, to establish additional Exhibitions, the holders of which will be allowed to proceed to any University. 648 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. PROSPECTUS. THE FETTES COLLEGE, COMELY BANK, NEAR EDINBURGH. TRUSTEES. The Right Honourable John Inglis of Glencorse, Lord Justice-General. The Honourable Bouverie Francis Primrose. David Anderson of Moredun. Archibald Campbell Swinton of Kimmerghame. Robert Dundas of Arniston. HEAD -MASTER. Alexander W. Potts, M.A., late Fellow of St. John's College, Cambridge, and for some time one of the Assistant- Masters of Rugby School. ASSISTANT-MASTERS. A. M. Bell, University of Glasgow, M.A., Balliol College, Oxford. C. C. Cotterill, M.A., St. John's College, Cambridge. J. Blaikie, M.A., University of Edinburgh, and Fellow of Caius College, Cambridge. (Mathematics and Natural Science.) W. A. Heard, B.A., Trinity College, Oxford. C. J. Hayden, B.A., Trinity College, Cambridge. (Mathematics and Natural Science.) W. Forster, B.A., New College, Oxford. H. E. Goldschmidt. (French and German.) Joseph Geoghegan. (Singing.) William A. Morley. (Drawing.) Messrs. Roland. (Gymnastics, etc.) Arrangements for Non- Foundationers. — The College opened on 5th October 1870. It is designed to provide boys with a liberal education of the highest class, qualifying them for the Scotch and English Universities and for pro- fessional life. In addition to the Foundationers, the College receives boys not on the Foundation. Boarding-Houses. — For the accommodation of Non-Foundationers, there are two boarding-houses, each capable of receiving 30 boys, the one under the superintendence of Mr. Cotterill, and the other under that of Mr. Bell. A third boarding-house, to receive 50 boys, is being erected, and will be open in September 1873. Fees for Non - Found ation ers : Entrance fee, 10 guineas. Annual Charge : Tuition (including Classics, Mathematics, Modern Languages, Natural Science, Singing, Drawing, and Gymnastics), £25 per annum. Boarding- house charge, £60. Day Scholars. — Non-Foundationers residing with their parents or guardians may attend the College during the day, taking breakfast and other meals in hall with the other boys, for which a charge of 15s. per week will be made. All boys before admission will be required to pass an examination ; and no boy will be admitted as a boarder or day scholar before he has attained his tenth, or after he has attained his fifteenth year. Holidays. — The school year consists of three terms of 13 weeks each. The holidays consist of three weeks at Christmas, three weeks at Easter, and seven weeks in summer. Scholarships. — Two Scholarships, each of the annual value of £40, and tenable during residence at the College, will be open to public competition in July 1873 to any boys (not already on the Foundation), whether members of the College or not. The candidates must be between eleven and fourteen years of age. The candidates will be examined in English Grammar and Composition, Arithmetic, Latin Grammar, Construing, and Prose Composition. Boys over thirteen years of age will also be examined in Greek, French, and Geometry. Allowance will be made for age, and sound elementary training will be considered very important. The successful candidates will be required to reside in the College, and will be admitted in the month of September following their election. In the case of scholars, the entrance fee will not be exacted ; so that the actual FETTES COLLEGE. G49 annual cost for each scholar, giving credit for the amount of the Scholarship, will be £45. Copies of the papers set at the last Scholarship Examination will be supplied by Mr. Jackson, Fettes College, on receipt of 8 stamps. Exhibitions to Universities — Anderson Exhibitions. — Two Exhibitions, of the annual value of £100 each, have been founded by Mr. Anderson of Moredun, with the view of enabling the holder, after leaving Fettes College, to proceed to the University of Oxford or Cambridge. All boys who have been educated at Fettes College for a period of not less than four years will be entitled to compete. The first competitions will take place at the end of the summer term of 1875 and 1876 respectively. The Exhibition to be competed for in 1875 will "be tenable (on that occasion) for three years, but in subsequent competitions will be held for four years ; so that boys entering the College on or before September 1872, and attending regularly thereafter, will be eligible for this competition. In the year 1875, and annually thereafter, there will be offered for competi- tion two Exhibitions to the University of Edinburgh, of the annual value of £60 each, tenable for four years. One of such Exhibitions will be open for competition among the Foundationers alone ; and the other among the Founda- tioners and such of the other Pupils as have attended the College regularly for not less than four years. In addition to these Exhibitions, the Trustees propose to establish others, not necessarily attached to the University of Edinburgh, but intended to enable or aid the holders to proceed to any University, English or Scottish, that they may prefer. The details and conditions of these addi- tional Exhibitions have not yet been settled. Fellowships. — The two Fellowships to be founded in the University of Edin- burgh, in terms of the original prospectus, article 28, cannot, of course, become available for several years to come. The Trustees in the meantime reserve to themselves the adjustment of the regulations and conditions on which they are to be bestowed and held. Parents or guardians will receive full information as to all the College arrangements on applying to the Head-Master. Edinburgh, June 1872. 650 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. ^ CO t-I o "^oco © CO co © S 0 •*> CO 18 ~ • CO . O » o O T— I CO is Sci o CO od 1 o CO Q CO © .0 o 1 O 50 53 CO go, CO . 1 O o S3 CO ^05 S co . oi^ o CO CO QoQ CO 3J CO © o CO '"I . *o co _ CN O rH CO . ' coot^ uo CO CD oi o ^1 ^ '- 1 © o co ^ o CO . ©GQ CO 00 . co oi ^ iA o CO . CO CO oi O CM CO . rH , QOOuO Oo n CO t-H O • CM CO J rH • «5 sJ iO o^S CO rH j> ,-1 bCio O © Q 4 CO OJ iO • O CM • CO . H g ^ o 0 a CO i-l rH 1-1 kO CO <^ oi >o . H/i sec© . 00 ^ 10 CO 1—1 rH . CO O CM CO . rH o n CO T-I W CO rJ^ CO ^ '-' CO CO , ci • © Q CO o © CO rH CO o © , co v oi • © O co CO tH CO* o^cm CM CO »* rH co 0 8 1 oi © * Q >0 • "O co M co o £2 ^ "0 co . rH . »C of* CO oi kO . HH fcjoco . CO • iO Oo^^ CO ^ t> © co . 10 .OC0 0 O FH co CO C5 • CO • o CO © © CO . »o 0 CO co ^ 01 O* th 0 ^ 5 CO rH 10 . CO • o OAS co © co _ CO CO CO C?i r -iO CM O rH o ^ >o WHo ^ • CO • CO CO © ^ CO CO CO ^ cmO^ s .5' 0 2 co CO ^ CO CO (M H ^ "7 • CO O rH O 1 ^ o © CO rH THE TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 651 THE TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL. FOUNDED BY THE CRAFTSMEN OF EDINBURGH, AND MARY ERSKINE, COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE 4 TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL.' Locality — Rillbank House, Meadows, Edinburgh. 1. Nature of Foundation. L Commenced in 1704, and founded by Act of Parliament of date 25th March 1707; the founders being the 14 Incorporated Trades, with whom Mary Erskine, relict of James Hair, druggist, was afterwards conjoined. 2. The purpose of the foundation is stated in the Act of Parliament to be c the founding and erecting an Hospital for the maintenance and edu- cation of the female children of decayed craftsmen and others, to be presented by persons who give donations thereto.' There is a set of rules for the management and administration of the Institution, made in pursuance of the Act of Parliament ;* of which, including the Act of Parliament, two copies are sent herewith. Additional copies may be obtained from the Treasurer or Clerks. 3. The property and revenues of the Hospital, when founded, consisted of some houses and yards in Edinburgh, purchased by the 14 original Incorporations of the Craftsmen of Edinburgh, and converted into an Hospital, with ' a great and considerable donation ' from the said Mary Erskine, and certain annual payments amounting to £206, 13s. 4d., for which the several Incorporations bound themselves by bonds for different amounts according to the number of presentations purchased by each Incorporation. The revenue is mainly derived from feu -duties in and about Edinburgh, from house property, including Rillbank House, and the Incorporations' annual payments. Gross revenue for year 1871-72, £1885, 19s. Id. Net revenue, after deducting taxes, and cost of repairs, and management, £1524, Is. lOd. 4. The administrators of the trust are the Dei 4 ons of the 13 (originally 14) Incorporations of the Craftsmen of Edin urgh, the two Trades Councillors, two of the name of Erskine, the repr tentative of the Society of Barbers, and as many as with the foresaid persons shall make up 27 persons. These are Governors for one year. The names of the present Governors are sent herewith. 5. No. G. The Deacons are elected by their respective Incorporations ; the Trades Councillors by the convenery, which consists of the Deacons of Incorporations. The two Governors of the name of Erskine are named by the representatives of the family of Mar. The representative of the Barbers is elected by the Society of Barbers; and the other Governors are * The substance of the Act is contained in the Answers to Questions 2, 3, 4, 0, 7, and 12. 652 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. chosen by the Deacons of the Incorporations, the two Trades Councillors, and the two Governors of the name of Erskine. 7. The Governors exercise direct control over the whole Hospital in its staff, discipline, instruction, etc. They appoint the Matron, Governesses, Teachers, Treasurer, Medical Officer, Clerk, Officer, and every official con- nected with the Institution. They pay their salaries, regulate their duties, arrange the curriculum of study, fix the mode of discipline, etc. There is a committee to look after the internal management and the funds, another to attend to education, and a third to look after the property of the Institution. Two Governors visit the Hospital weekly in rotation. 8. The Governors have not deviated from the original constitution, further than that, as their funds improved, they have added new branches of education, given additional comforts in food and clothing, and larger outgoing allowances. In 1844 a rule was passed that girls should be permitted to leave the Hospital on reaching the age of 14, and reside with Iheir parents or other guardian, with a view to their learning a trade, or being instructed in such branches of education as are not taught in the Hospital. Each chrld so leaving the house receives an annual out-door allowance of £13, 10s. till she reaches 17 years of age. 9. Girls, 48, of whom 20 are fatherless; of whom 28, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. None — with this exception, that the more advanced girls in Music pay half fee for additional instruction in that branch. The number of these is 11. 11. The mode of election has already been explained. Each girl leaves on reaching her 17th birthday, and her place is immediately filled up by another girl presented by the Patron. 12. The girls presented by the Incorporations must be the daughters, granddaughters, or great-granddaughters of members of the Incorpo- rated Trades of Edinburgh. There is no such qualification required in the case of private presentations. 13. They enter between the ages of 7 and 11, and leave at 17 years of age. 14. The Governors require that all girls presented are qualified in terms of the constitution. There is no entrance examination. 15. There has been no dismissal within the memory of the present Governors. There is no statutory power; but it is thought that the Governors would be entitled to exercise the power, if necessary. 16. Each Foundationer receives a sum of £10 on leaving. 17. There are 6 Foundationers residing out of the house with their parents or other guardians, with a view to learning a trade. Each gets an annual allowance of £13, 10s. for board and clothing. When they leave the Hospital for this purpose at 14, they cease to receive instruction at the Hospital or any other school at the expense of the Governors. It is the wish of the Governors to increase the above allowance as soon as the funds will permit. 18. None. 19. There are no non-Foundationers. 20. A statement of accounts is filed herewith for the last financial year, ending 31st October 1872. The accounts are audited annually by the Clerk to the Hospital. But the Treasurer's intromissions are examined and passed monthly by a Committee of Governors, called the Committee of Nine. THE TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL. Abstract of Income and Expenditure of the Trades Maiden Hospital, From 1st October 1871 to 1st October 1872. Charge. Balance due to Treasurer on last Account, . . . . £1 5 G\ Arrears at 1st October 1871, 50 3 6j Payments from Incorporations and Interest, . . £204 0 9 Feu-duties — 1. Grain Feus, Lands of Wrights' Houses, .... £273 3 5 2. Money Feus, do. . . 876 16 11£ 3. Do., Argyle Square, . . . 20 10 5 4. Do., Gayfield Square, . . 93 0 0 5. Do., Rillbank, . . . 144 14 6' 1408 5 3| Rents— 1. Lands of Wrights' Houses and Embank, . . . .£516 2. Grassmarket, . . . . 167 10 0 3. Bristo Street, . . . 16 0 0 188 11 6 Miscellaneous Receipts, . . . 30 1 10 Casualties of Superiority and Public Burdens, . 41 13 11£ Income-Tax repayable by Government, etc., Drawn from Bank, £1872 13 3| 27 19 5 869 18 11 2770 11 7f £2822 0 8£ Balance due to Treasurer, per Cash-book, . . . 10 6 £2823 1 n Discharge. . £1944 2 4f 39 0 3f 803 0 9 36 17 9 £2823 1 2J Income as above, ........ £1872 13 3| Expenditure as above, ..... £1944 2 4} Less extraordinary outlay for converting Stable into Room, etc., . . . . . 80 13 0 1863 9 4| Ordinary Income more than ordinary Expenditure, . . £9 3 11 Expenditure, per Classified Account, Income-Tax retained from Hospital, . Paid into Bank during the year, including Interest, Arrears at 1st October 1872, . We, members of the Committee appointed to audit the accounts of Mr. George Oichton, Treasurer of the Hospital founded by the Crafts of Edinburgh and Mary Erskine, for period from 1st October 1871 to 1st October 1872, having examined the accounts of his intromissions during that period : Do find that he has charged himself with the Hospital's whole revenue, fixed and casual, during the said period, and that the said Charge amounts to Two Thousand Eight Hundred and Twenty-two Pounds and Eightpence Halfpenny. AVe have also examined the Discharge, by comparing the particulars thereof with the vouchers produced, and find the same sufficiently instructed, and that the said Discharge amounts to Two Thousand Eight Hundred and Twenty-three Pounds 654 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. One Shilling and Twopence Halfpenny, whereby there arises a balance of One Pound and Sixpence due by the Hospital to the Treasurer. We have therefore to report it as our opinion that the Governors should discharge the said George Crichton of his intromissions for the period aforesaid, and place the foresaid balance to his credit in next year's account. In witness whereof, we have subscribed this docquet at Edinburgh, the Twenty-first day of October One thousand Eight hundred and Seventy-two years. (Signed) W. B. Mack, Deacon and Preses. Dd. Moir, Governor. Patrick Seton, Deacon. William Smith, Deacon. APPENDIX. Analysis of Expenditure. Maintenance. Bread, . Butcher Meat, . Milk and Butter, Meal, Barley, and Vegetables, Tea and Groceries, Petty Expenses, Clothing. Material for Dresses and other Clothing, Shoes, ....... Coals, Gas, Manure, etc. Coals, ....... Gas, 4 Water, Soap, Manure, etc., Repairs on Hospital, etc. Wright Work, . Painting and Glazing, . Feu-duty, Smith and Plumber Work, Gravel, Sand, and Ashes, Sundries (including £4 for Sewerage Bate), Salaries. Matron, . First Mistress, . Second Mistress, . ' Servants, Teacher, First English, Junior do. Writing and Arithmetic Drawing, French, German, Singing, Dancing, Pianoforte, . Do. Fees for Private Classes, £94 15 5 98 19 9 50 1 0 33 1 3 46 11 8 2 15 8 £141 10 10 36 6 10 £33 5 8 16 12 11 5 11 2 11 18 6 £5 2 1 13 11 0 4 2 6 36 2 5 8 7 0 4 16 1 £52 10 0 40 0 0 40 0 0 51 0 0 50 0 0 50 0 0 40 0 0 30 0 0 30 0 0 20 0 0 21 0 0 15 15 0 30 0 0 60 12 8 £326 4 9 177 17 8 67 8 3 •2 1 1 Carry forward, £530 17 8 £643 11 9 THE TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 655 Brought forward, Surgeon, Dentist, .... Treasurer, Clerk, and for auditing Accounts, Officer, .... Hair-dresser, Annuity, Miss Craig, . Musician, £530 17 8 21 0 0 £643 11 9 Allowance to Out-going Girls. 9 Girls at £10 each, . Out-door Board and Clothing. Board and Clothing for Girls living out of the Hospital, Educational Expenses. Piano-Tuning and Music, Money Prizes, . School-Books, Bibles, and Maps, Drawing and Writing Materials, Fees, Local Examination, Public Burdens. Minister's Stipend, ...... Poor-Kates, Prison-Tax, Land-Tax, Sewerage Assessment Repairs on Property. £5 5 8 8 2 0 11 11 9 10 18 6 4 10 0 £40 6 4 18 19 2| Plumber Work, . . . £15 16 0 Painting, ....... 19 10 6 Insurance and Feu-duty, ..... 5 10 1 Smith Work, ....... 10 17 6 Wright Work, 7 17 0 Slater Work, 3 19 1 Plasterer Work, ...... 0 13 8* Miscellaneous. Interest on Borrowed Money, .... £70 0 0 Rent of Church Pew, ..... 5 0 0 Printing and Advertising, . . . . 10 19 6 Tax on Gardener, . 0 15 0 Medicine, ....... 1 18 1 Jardine, Stodart, and Fraser's Business Account, . 25 13 11 Excursion Expenses and Annual Dinner, 50 6 Messrs. Beattie's Account for converting Stable into Room, etc., ....... 80 13 0 Petty Outlay for Stamps, ..... 1 14 0 721 11 8 90 0 0 78 1 11 40 7 11 59 5 64 3 10£ Total, 246 19 8£ £1944 2 4| State of Bank Account. Balance due by Bank at October 1871, . . . . . Paid into Bank during the year ending October 1872, including £4, 0s. 9d. of Interest, ........ Drawn out at October 1872, ....... Balance due by Bank at October 1872, £335 0 5 803 0 9 £1138 1 2 869 18 11 £268 2 3 656 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Stock Account. 1. Feu-duties of Wrights' Houses, estimated at 2. Do. Gayfield Square, ..... 3. Do. Argyle Square, ..... 4. Do. at Eillbank, ..... 5. Do. from Bruntsfield Lodge and Grounds, . 6. Lands of Wrights' Houses, ..... 7. Property in Grassmarket, ...... 8. Annual Payments by the several Incorporations. Allowing 4 per cent, for money, these payments are worth to the Hospital a principal sum of . . . . . . . 9. Property at Rillbank, expended thereon, 10. Property in Bristo Street, ...... Deduct — Amount of Borrowed Money due by the Hospital, £21,500 0 2,300 0 400 0 100 1,500 3,300 0 0 3,300 0 0 5,000 0 0 6,000 0 0 200 0 0 £43,600 0 0 1,600 0 0 £42,000 0 0 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Forty-two reside in the Hospital, and six are boarded out of the Hospital with a view to learning a trade ; they generally reside with a parent or other near relative. 2. Each Foundationer residing out of the house receives an annual allowance of £13, 10s. 3. No. 4. They are allowed to visit their relatives every Saturday, and spend the day with them. They cannot leave the limits of the grounds of the Institution on other days without leave of the Matron. Two months' holidays in summer, a week at Christmas, and a few days at each half-yearly communion. 5. An hour or two's confinement to the Hospital on a Saturday or other holiday, and imposing of additional tasks, are the only punishments inflicted. The Matron, with the concurrence of the Master, determines the punishment. There is no record kept. 6. At dinner time, several of the senior pupils are appointed to take charge over the junior; the Matron or a Governess being always pre- sent. The elder pupils also assist the younger ones in preparation of lessons. But there is no statutory rule on the subject. 7. The pupils are all under the supervision of the Lady Superintendent (or Matron) and two resident Governesses, the latter sleeping in rooms adjoining, with windows looking into the dormitories. 8. (1) One dormitory, 21 feet 9 inches long, 20 feet 2 inches broad, 13 feet high. Cubical space for each girl, 3G3J feet. (2) One dormitory, 28 feet 4 inches long, 20 feet broad, and 13 feet high, with a large recess. Cubical space for each girl, 356§ feet. (3) One dormitory, 15 feet 10 inches long, 12 feet broad, and 13 feet high. Cubical space for each girl, 491 feet. The average number accommodated in No. 1 is 1G, or 8 beds with 2 girls in each bed ; in No. 2, 24 girls, or 12 beds with 2 in each ; in No. 3, 5 girls, or 4 beds with 5 occupants. 9. Exercise and play in the open air within the grounds of the Insti- tution daily. The younger children have four hours' play daily in the open air, weather permitting. The extent of the grounds is 1 J acres imperial. The children are fully as free in respect of amusements as the pupils at other schools. THE TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 657 10. Two lavatories with 5 basins in each, one with one basin. Five water-closets, and six baths. The sanitary arrangements are good. 11. Two deaths (2) have occurred within the last ten years. 12. A twenty-four hours' time-table, and the usual dietary scale for a week, are filed herewith. DIETARY. Breakfast, 8 A.M. Lunch, 11 A.M. Dinner, 2 r.M. Tea, .5 p.m. Supper, 8 P.M. Sunday, Porridge and Milk. Mince Collops, Bread. Tea, Bread and Butter. Bread and Milk. Monday, Do. Bread. Broth and Beef, Potatoes and Bread. Milk and Bread. Cocoa and Bread. Tuesday, Do. Do. Roast Beef, Pea-soup, Potatoes and Bread. Do. Do. "Wednesday, Do. Do. Fish Pie, Bread. Bread and Butter, Tea. Bread and Milk. Thursday, . Do. Do. Beef and Mutton, Rice Soup. Bread and Milk. Bread and Cocoa. Friday, Do. Do. Beef, Potatoes, Rice or Bread Pudding. Do. Cocoa and Bread. Saturday, . Do. Do. Beef and Potatoes, Bread. Do. Bread and Milk. III. Instruction. 1 . Foundationers are chiefly drawn from the class of master-tradesmen in Edinburgh. There are presently in the house children of jewellers, silversmiths, engravers, builders, tailors, hatters, shoemakers, copper- smiths, joiners, painters, butchers, bakers, grocers, — one daughter of a clergyman, one of a doctor, one of a teacher. 2. The education given is intended to fit the girls for being governesses and teachers. Those who are boarded out of the house are set to learn trade of dressmaking, millinery, and other suitable employment. 3. A schedule is filed herewith, and follows : 2 T 658 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. ARRANGEMENT OF CLASSES. French. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, 8-9 a.m. Prpnar»Hnn j Tue s d ay, Thursday, and Saturday, 7.30-8 A.M. Preparation, | MondaV) 5 30 . 6 FridaVj 4 30 _ 5 p M English. I. Class, every day except Saturday, 9-10 a.m. II. Class, ,, ,, 12-1 p.m. III. Class, ,, ,, 1-2 p.m. German. Tuesday and Thursday, 11-12 a.m. Preparation, — Monday and Wednesday, 11-12. Arithmetic. Monday, Wednesday, and each alternate Friday, 3-4 P.M. TtrA«Vfa«f 5 Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, 7.40. isreaktast, j Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, 8. Dinner,— 2. Tea,— 5 or 5.30. Supper,— 8.30. Writing. Tuesday, Thursday, and each alternate Friday, 4-5 p.m. Pianoforte. Monday, 2-6. Wednesday, 3-5. Tuesday and Thursday, 4-6. Friday, 3-6. ■p . . ( Voluntary Class, one hour daily, rractice, j Pub}ic Clasg) half an hour daQy> Vocal Music. Monday and Wednesday, 4-5. Drawing. Tuesday and Thursday, 4-5.30. Daily Religious Instruction. Seniors, 1.30-2. Juniors, 12.30-1, or 4.30-5. Dancing. 9th October to 31st January, 6-8 p.m. Prayers. Morning, — Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, 7.20 ; Tuesday and Thursday, 8 ; Saturday and Sunday, 8.45. Evening, — ,, ,, 8.45. Note. — The girls are taught sewing, knitting, etc. They assist in making their own dresses. They wash their collars and lighter articles of dress, and they make their own beds. The girls learn to knit and sew, make their own clothes, assist in the usual household work, with a view of making them more useful in families wherein they may be employed as governesses. 4. A statement in answer to this query is filed herewith, and is as follows : Statement of the Actual Work done in the various Subjects of Study by the Highest Class in the School during their last Session, referring to Text-Books to illustrate the amount and character of the work : — English. — Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice (Clarendon Press Edition); Macaulay's Essay on Hallam's Constitutional History of England; History and THE TRADES MAIDEN HOSPITAL. 659 Geography of Ancient Greece (Collier's and Smith's Histories, and Edinburgh Academy Ancient Geography) ; Geography of North and South America (Anderson's Geography) ; Revision of Scottish and English History to Death of Anne (Collier's British History) ; Revision of Geography of British Islands (Anderson's Geography) ; Grammatical Analysis (Morell's Analysis) ; Practical Instruction in English Composition and in Reading. Brief Essays were written weekly ; and about a month before the session closed, a subject for a more extensive Essay was prescribed, for which a special prize was given. Scripture History. — The First and Second Books of Kings, and the Acts of the Apostles. French. — Elements and part of Syntax in Grammar (Kunz's) ; Wrote Gram- matical and Idiomatic Exercises ; Read, Translated, and Parsed twice over the First Book, and once the Second Book, of Voltaire's Charles XII. ; Translated a series of Extracts from Moliere, and learned a few pieces of Poetry. German. — Weisse's Grammar ; Aim's Method. Arithmetic. — Davis's Arithmetic, to Compound Proportion inclusive. Drawing. — Ornamental Free Hand ; Drawing from the Flat ; Model Draw- ing, with the Rules of Perspective applied. Pianoforte. — Fantasias on Operatic Airs ; Classical Music ; Scales and Exercises. Singing. — Course of Exercises in Sol-Fa Duets, and Solo Singing. 5. Religious instruction from the Bible is given daily. The girls go to church twice on Sundays. The elder girls write notes of the sermons. All the girls have Bible lessons in the evening. 6. Fifteen is the average number in a class. Promotion is regulated chiefly by attainments and capacity. Prizes are given. They are awarded by class marks and written examinations. A medal is awarded to the girl who takes the highest certificate at the Edinburgh University Local Examination. 7. The building is provided with suitable class-rooms. (1.) The Eng- lish class-room is 28 feet 9 inches long, 20 feet 4 inches broad, and 12 feet 8 inches high, with 4 large windows. Average number of pupils here, 16. (2.) Sewing, singing, and drawing class-room, 28 feet 9 inches long, 20 feet broad, 12 feet 8 inches high, with 4 large windows. Average number of pupils here, 20. (3.) Music-room is 20 feet 5 inches long, 14 feet broad, and 12 feet 4 inches high; one large window. Average number of pupils, 6. Dining-hall, 29 feet long, 20 feet 4 inches broad, and 12 feet 6 inches high, with 4 large windows. The area of the grounds is l£ acres imperial measure. There is a library. 8. The Governors appoint the Matron or Lady Superintendent. She does not conduct the instruction of any class ; her duties are confined to superintendence of the classes generally, and giving religious instruction. She also superintends the behaviour of the children, and the management of the house. Her tenure of office is during the pleasure of the Governors. She takes care that the Masters attend at their several hours of teaching. 9. A list is filed herewith, and follows. No portion of Teachers' emolu- ments derived from fees, except in the case of the Music Master, who gets one-half fees from the advanced pupils for additional instruction. The appointments are during pleasure. LIST OF OFFICERS AND THEIR SALARIES. Mr. George Porteous, Head English Master, One hour per day, £ 8. » ... 51 0 0 52 10 0 40 0 0 si • • • • • • ,, ... 40 0 0 Hair-dresser ..... • ji ... 1 8 0 Mr. Milne, Teacher of Dancing . . For the session of four months . 15 15 0 10. There is no provision such as here mentioned; but in point of fact the Governors give superannuation allowances when necessary, and at pre- sent there is an old governess receiving such allowance. 11. There has been no such report. The test of the progress of the Institution is the examination the pupils undergo at the University Examinations. 12. Not further than that, at the University Examinations, the children who go up for examination are quite equal in their educational progress with the children of same age in other educational institutions. 13. Not applicable. 14. The pupils who have left the Institution during the last ten years have mostly become governesses, and some milliners and dressmakers. Several have married well. General. They have; and last year they applied to the Home Secretary for a Provisional Order to carry out the contemplated changes ; but same was not granted. Note. — The Governors do not consider the Hospital to be an ' endowed institution.' It is rather of the character of an association of the Incor- porated Trades, and others who chose to join with them, for the education of their children, for which the Incorporated Trades pay an annual sum, while the private patrons made one single payment for the purchase of their rights. It is thus in reality an institution founded and supported solely for the benefit of the parties who have contributed and are presently contributing for its maintenance. ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE. 661 ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE AT EDINBURGH. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1727. Voluntary contributions promoted by Andrew Gairdner, merchant in Ediuburgh. 2. Copy Letters Patent by His Majesty George the Second, 1742, and relative Statutes or Bye-laws produced herewith. 3. (1) Original sum contributed in 1727, One thousand pounds. (2) See state of capital in last year's annual account, showing present in- vestment of the funds. (3) See state of capital in last year's annual account, showing gross and net annual revenue. 4. (1) See Letters Patent by George the Second, dated 6th and 12th August 1742, with relative Statutes or Bye-laws herewith produced. (2) The Corporation is composed of about 90 members, consisting of leading citizens of Edinburgh, and noblemen and gentlemen connected with Scotland, from whom the Managers are selected. (3) See separate list of Managers and Office-bearers, p. 671. 5. No. 6. Fifteen Managers are elected by the Corporation, on second Monday in August annually. The Corporation consist of ' contributors or donors of some money, less or more, for the use and benefit of the Corporation.' 7. The Managers meet at the Hospital on the first Friday of each month, and three Visiting Managers are appointed for each month. The Managers, with the assistance of several Committees, exercise direct control over the whole affairs of the Hospital ; and their proceedings are subject to the approval of the Corporation, who hold quarterly meetings at the Hospital. 8. The present application of the funds is in terms of the original foundation, and the benefits have not been diverted. 9. Boys, 57 ; girls, 33 ; — all of whom are fatherless, and are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. As the revenue will not admit of the Hospital being filled with inmates, boarders being orphans are received, boys at £16, and girls at £14, per annum. There are at present 26 boarders in the house. There are also 24 presentees, who are maintained by the proceeds or gifts of money to the Hospital by certain patrons, such money gifts being now included in the capital of the Hospital's general funds. 11. Nine vacancies at last election, and thirty-seven applicants. Sec printed list herewith produced. 12. All the children in the Hospital are fatherless, and were certified to have been in poverty. Preference generally given to entire orphans. See printed list of applications for admission for 1872. 662 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 13. Not under seven years of age nor above ten, except in the cases of presentees or boarders, who must be under eleven. Inmates leave about fourteen years of age on an average. 14. (1) No. (2) The Managers have recently resolved to examine the applicants, when practicable, before future elections, as to their health, bodily and mental. 15. The Managers hold themselves at liberty to dismiss any inmate, but such cases very rarely occur. 16. There is a capital sum of £766, the interest of which is applied towards giving occasional assistance to inmates after leaving the Hospital, the allocation of which is left in the hands of the Treasurer and House- Governor. 17. None. 18. None. 19. None. 20. The annual account (printed abstract) for year ending 31st July 1872 is produced herewith. There are also quarterly accounts kept by the Treasurer ; and all the accounts are afterwards audited by the official Accountant to the Hospital. Orphan Hospital —Abstract of the Treasurer's Account from 31st July 1871 to 31st July 1872. Charge. I. Balance due by Treasurer at 31st July 1871, . . . . £38 0 8 II. Arrear of Kent outstanding at do., 101 0 0 III. Balance in Account with the Boyal Bank of Scotland at do., . 85 12 6 IV. Eevenue arising during this Account, viz. : — 1. Dividends from Stocks, £786 3 3 2. Annuity from Dr. Schaw's Trustees, 5 0 0 3. Interest on Money lent, 956 14 7 4. Rental of Lands and Houses, and Feu- 278 9 6 5. Board received for Orphans, . 386 10 6 6. Donations under £5, .... 9 4 0 7. Miscellaneous Receipts, 27 8 11 Amount of Revenue, . 2,449 10 9 V. Legacy received, 49 10 0 VI. Property and Income-Tax for year to 31st July 1871, repaid by Government, 33 11 10 s Amount of the Charge, .... £2,757 5 9 6 Discharge. Expenditure chargeable against Revenue : — 1. Expenses of the Establishment. (1.) Household Expenses, viz. : — Victualling, £899 0 5 Water-Duty, • 15 0 0 Coals, 89 14 6 Gas, 20 15 5 Soap and Soda, 39 4 8 Sundries, 9 6 5 £1,073 1 5 (2.) Clothing (including Outfit of outgoing Children), . 345 13 6 (3.) Salaries, viz. : — House-Governor, .... £100 0 0 Matron, ...... 45 0 0 Carry forward, £145 0 0 £1,418 14 11 ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE. 663 Brought forward, £145 0 0 £1,418 14 11 Assistant Teacher, . . . . 33 14 0 Female Teacher, ... 13 15 0 Gardener, 52 0 0 Female Servants, 93 16 0 Surgeon, 40 0 0 Teachers of Music, . . . . 17 18 0 Teacher of Drawing, .... 500 Drill-Master, 6 3 0 407 6 0 (4.) Books, Stationery, etc., 21 4 7 (5.) Plenishing and Utensils, 109 12 4 (6.) Incidents, 17 5 1 £1,974 2 11 2. Improvements and Eepairs on the Hospital Buildings, Furniture, etc., 60 4 10 3. Expenses connected with Hospital Garden and Grounds, . . 25 0 10 4. Public, Parochial, and other Annual Burdens, .... 28 15 10 10 5. Feu-duties paid, 4 3 3 10 6. Insurance against Fire, 4 5 6 7. Premiums to former Pupils, . 20 6 0 8. Church Seat-Rents, 25 0 0 9. Repairs, etc. to Properties, 20 13 8 10. Funeral Expenses, 276 11. Payment to « Lumsden's Mortification,' 6 0 0 12. Miscellaneous Payments, 4 8 6 13. Expenses of Management, viz. :— Salary to Treasurer, £31 10 0 Salary to Clerk, 21 0 0 Business Account to do., 7 16 3 Printing, Stationery, and Advertising, . . 18 14 6 Incidents, 110 80 1 9 Amount of Expenditure, . . . £2,255 10 8 8 II. Property and Income-Tax paid for year to 31st July 1872 (to be repaid by Government), 43 1 0 4 III. Arrear of Rent outstanding at 31st July 1872, .... 54 3 10 IV. Balance due by the Royal Bank of Scotland at do., . . . 439 7 3 Amount op the Discharge, . . . £2,792 2 10 Do. Charge, . . . 2,757 5 9 6 Balance due to the Treasurer at 31st July 1872, . £34 17 0 6 Note. — From the above Abstract it will be seen that — The Revenue arising during the year was, per Branch IV. of Charge, £2,449 10 9 And that the Expenditure was, per Branch Lof Discharge, 2,225 10 8 8 Showing an Excess of Revenue of . £194 0 0 4 The average Number of Children in the Hospital during the year was 83. Fund for Aid of Former Pupils. This Fund, as shown in Statement annexed to annual account for year to 31st July 1872, amounts to £766, 18s. 9 8 d. The Income arising from it is applied to aid friendless Orphans after leaving the Hospital. 664 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. State of Property and Funds belonging to the Incorporation of the Orphan Hospital, Edinburgh, as at 31st July 1872. I. Estimated Value of Lands, House?, and Feus (exclusive of the Hospital Buildings and Ground),* viz. : — Lands at In veresk, Rosehall Farm, £5,000 0 0 Feu at Barber's Burn, near Jock's Lodge, .... 100 0 0 Feu of Lands of Old Greenlaw, . . . * . . 20 0 0 Shop, No. 295 High Street, 500 0 0 Subjects in Charles Street, 480 0 0 II. Value of Stocks in Public Companies at Selling Prices at 31st July 1872, viz. :— £2,380 City of Edinburgh Bonds of Annuity, £1,808 16 0 £4,100 Stock of theBoyal Bank of Scotland, 7,954 0 0 £900 Stock of the National Bank of Scotland, 2,691 0 0 £1,000 Stock of the Bank of Scotland, . 2,820 0 0 £1,002, 10s. 2d. Stock of the Bank of England, 2,446 2 4 17,719 18 4 III. Value of Annuity payable by Dr. Schaw's Trustees, . . 100 0 0 IV. Money lent on Heritable and Debenture Bonds and on Promissory Notes, viz. : — Sum lent on Heritable Bond of Annuity to Sir Thomas Moncreiffe of Moncreiffe, Bart., £5,000 0 0 Sum lent to the Glasgow and South- Western Railway Company on their Debenture Bond No. 1348, 6,500 0 0 Sum lent to the Caledonian Railway Com- pany on their Debenture Bond No. 2-1409, 5,000 0 0 Sum lent ditto on their Debenture Bond No. 2-366, 3,000 0 0 Sum lent do. do. No. 3174, 700 0 0 Sum lent to the Governors of GcorgeWatson's Hospital on their Treasurer's Promissory 3,000 0 0 23,200 0 0 V. Amount of Property and Income-Tax for year to 31st July 1872, to be received back from Government, 43 1 0^ 2 VI. Arrear of Rent outstanding at 31st July 1872, .... 54 3 10 VII. Balance due by the Royal Bank of Scotland on Account-Current 7 3 £47,656 10 6 r « 3 Deduct Balance due to Treasurer at this date, 34 17 Of* Amount of Capital at 31st July 1872, . £47,621 13 4f§ Certified by John Scott Moncrieff, Treasurer, II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 57 ; girls, 33. 2. All reside in the Hospital. * The actual cost of the Hospital buildings and ground was stated in former nccounts as £20,658, 7s. Id. ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE. 665 3. Yes. Boys : cord trousers; brown cloth jackets and vests ; brass buttons with O. H. stamped on them. 4. Visits received every day betwixt twelve aud three o'clock from friends in town ; at any reasonable hour from friends at a distance. Boys are frequently sent out on errands, and during summer have occasional excursions to the country and sea-bathing. Inmates receive a holiday once in four weeks for visiting friends, and a fortnight once a year during summer. 5. (1) With the ' taws,' and sometimes the loss of a holiday, but never deprived of ordinary food. (2) The Master. (3) No record is kept. 6. Yes. One boy over each bedroom reports every morning. One has charge of the play-ground. One has charge of shoe-cleaning. One has charge of combing and brushing a certain number. All report to the Master as to work done and behaviour. 7. Boys — By day, Master Assistaut and senior boys. Girls — Mistress and Sewing Mistress by day, and senior girls by night. Senior boys by night take charge of bedrooms. 8. Dimensions of dormitories. 1st dormitory, 22. 9 X 24.4 X 12 feet. ) 2d do. 19. 9 X 9.4X12 „ ' 2 7 623 cubic feet !?„ t S?-2S£n5ft 10 " SsdS^for each boy. 6th do. 25.10X18.0X12 ,, J 32 Girls occupy three rooms similar to Nos. 3, 4, and 6 dormitories. 12 is the average number above ten years of age who have separate beds ; below that they sleep two and two. 9. Football and cricket in the park in front of the Hospital, which is two acres in extent. Games same as other boys, on play-ground at the back of the Hospital ; extent one acre. Girls have an acre, and hoops, balls, croquet, skipping-ropes, and seat-swing for their amusement. 10. (1) There are six large lavatories ; three for boys and three for girls. There are two bath-rooms, with two plunge baths in each. (2) The sanitary arrangements are considered very good, which is proved by the unusual freedom from serious illnesses. There are two public W. C.'s, and two private ones for night. 11. In sixteen years five boys and five girls died in the Hospital. 12. (1) A twenty-four hours' time-table is produced herewith, and follows. (2) The usual dietary scale for a week is also produced, and follows. ORPHAN HOSPITAL.— Tabular State, showing Daily Routine in Hospital on and after 5th January 1860. At 7 in winter Hospital bell rings. All the children rise. Private prayers and under eye of Master or Assistant. A cold plunge bath. Six 6 in summer. elder boys proceed to feed the stove. Assist the other children in the two basin-rooms and six wards in dressing and bed-making. Cleaning water-closet, etc. Every senior boy in charge reports. Twelve oldest boys clean all the boots. Every one of children able to do anything has a charge, such as shoe-cleaning, knife-cleaning, stove-feeding, books mending, buttons sewing, nil under Master and Assistants, or, when they arc at breakfast, under a senior boy. Those children unoccupied play either within or out of doors, according to the state of the weather, and under the supervision of a senior boy, who reports. 666 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. A.M. 8.0 Breakfast. The House-Governor or Assistant attends, and is responsible for proper conduct of boys. After breakfast, boys variously engaged. Visit sickroom, etc., till 9.0 Family worship till 9.15. 9.30 School, under Master and Assistant and Monitors, until 12 o'clock. In the option of the House-Governor, a quarter of an hour's interval about 11 o'clock. 12-1 Work with gardener when required. 14 Boys generally go to work in the garden, generally from 12 to 1 and from 4 to 6 o'clock, reading, messages, etc. Junior son the play-ground under a senior boy, who reports. All under Master. P.M. 1.0 Dinner. Matron sees that meat cut and divided by female servants as far as possible. The Assistant-Teacher attends at dinner, or the House- Governor in his absence. 1.30 At play-ground, under senior boys. 2.0 School, under Master, Assistant, and Monitors. 4.0 Children receive some food. Similar to what goes on from 12 to 1. Master and Assistant dine at Matron's table. 5.30 Preparing for next day's school lessons, under Monitors, Assistant, or Master. 7.0 Family worship for 15 minutes. 7.30 Supper ; some arrangement as at breakfast. 7.45-9 W.C. Bathing some weakly boys. Reading, singing, amuse- ments, private prayer, and off to bed under eye of Master or Assistant. 12-1 Band Master on Friday. Singing Master on Friday from 4 to 5. Drill Master on Saturday from 12 to 1. About 16 girls are employed in all parts of the house when out of school, laundry, kitchen, dining-rooms, and waiting Matron's table. Girls are engaged from 4.30 to 6.30 p.m. daily at sewing and knitting. They make the boys' shirts, their own chemises, and mend them. Walks and games on Saturday afternoon. Sea-bathing once a week in its season. Sea is three miles distant. A cart is used for the younger ones. Church takes 15 minutes' walk ; so going and coming makes one hour's walk. After church hours, when the weather is fine, children walk in the grounds, which are about seven acres. John Crawford, House- Governor. DIETARY SCALE FOR CHILDREN OF ORPHAN HOSPITAL. Monday, . Broth, beef, and bread : £ lb. beef, and 6, 5, and 4 oz. bread to each. Tuesday, . Rice-pudding with sweet milk and bread. Wednesday, Broth, beef, and bread. The one week the boys have roast mutton, the other week the girls have it. Thursday, Pea-soup and bread. Friday, . Stewed beef and vegetables and bread. Saturday, Broth, beef, and bread. Sabbath, . In winter, pea-soup and bread ; in summer, sweet milk and bread. Breakfast. Porridge and butter milk. ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE. G67 Supper. Porridge and sweet milk, occasionally bread and milk. At four o'clock each child has a piece of bread. On Sabbath, tea and bread and butter. John Crawford, House- Governor. III. Instruction. 1. Tradesmen generally. All the children's fathers are dead. See also printed list of applications for admission for 1872. 2. No. Under the advice of employers of such children, no such instruction is given. 3. Time-table herewith produced, and follows : [Ti me-Table. 668 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. TIME-TABLE. 9.30-10. 10-10.40. 10.45-11. Monday. !. 2. o. Bible and Catechism, Bible and Catechism, Bible and Catechism, M. M. A. 1. Senior Reader, Spellings, Meanings, M. 2. Arithmetic (Monday). 3. Heading and Spelling, A. terval. 4. Bible and Catechism, A. ^ uit/idnoii a xvri tumeric, a. S3 5. Bible and Catechism, A. 5. Reading & Dictation (Mon.). 1. " 2. 1. Book of Poetry, Dictation, and Etymology, M. 2. Arithmetic (Monday). Tuesday. 3. 4. 5- . ► Same as above. 3. Reading, Dictation, and Meanings, A. 4. Dictation and Arithmetic (Monday). 5. Reading and Dictation. Intervi Wednesday. 1. * 2. 3. 4. 5. j ► Same as above. 1. Senior Reader, Spellings, and Meanings, M. 2. Arithmetic. 3. ) 4. > Same as Monday. 5. ) Interval. Thursday. 1. * 2. 3. 4. 5. j ► Same as above. 1. Poetry Book, Dictation, and Etymology. 2. Arithmetic (Monday). 3. ) 4. > Same as Tuesday. 5. ) Interval. Friday. 1. * 2. I: 4. J - Same as above. 1. Senior Reader, Spelling, and Dictation. 2. Arithmetic (Monday). 3 - ) 4. > Same as Monday. 5. ) Interval. Saturday. 1-1 3. 4. 5. - Same as above. 1. Book of Poetry, Dictation, and Etymology. 2. Arithmetic. terval. 3. ) 4. }»Same as Monday. 5. ) a t— i ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE. 669 TIME-TABLE. 11-12. 2-2.35. 2.35-3.15. 3.15-4. 1. Arithmetic. *^ T?Pininor Sntip 11 1 n o* 3. Arithmetic. 11-11.30. 11.30-12. 4. Reading. Arithm'c. 5. Arithm'c. Reading. a 1. Geography and Map, M. 2 Arith fMon ^ 3. Geography and Reading, A. 4. Geography and Arithmetic, A. 5. Read. (Mon.). 1. Arithmetic (Monday). 2. Geog.&Map,M. 3. Arithmetic, A. 4. Reading, A. 5. Arith. (Mon.). 1. Writing and Bookkeeping. 2. Writing. 3. Writing. 4. Writing. 5. Writing. 1. Arithmetic. *) TTicfrvrv T^ir*+*it Inn mm% I 1 lolUI V 7 U IL Lit L1L/J J , Cv Meanings. <). 4. } Same as Monday. 5.. i a t— i 1. Drawing. £ • XJltX »V lllc^. 3. Drawing. 4. Drawing. 5. Drawing. 1. Drawing. 9 Tlra wincr 3. Drawing. 4. Drawing. 5. Drawing. 1. Eng. Grammar and Essay, M. 2. Eng. Grammar and Essay, M. 3. Grammar and Reading, A. 4. Grammar and Reading, A. 5. Read. (Mon.). 1 Arithmptip 2. Reading, Spelling, & Meanings. 3 ? 4. >• Same as Monday. 5. ) > a 1 frPOcyranVi v and Map. 2. Arithmetic. 3. ^ Same 4. V as 5. ) Monday. 1. Arithmetic. 2. Geography and Map. 3. ) Same 4. > as 5. ) Monday. 1. Writing and Bookkeeping. 2. Writing. 3. Writing. 4. Writing. 5. Writing. 1 A ri flimpf Ir* 2. History, Dictation, & Meanings. 3. ) 4. ^- Same as Monday. 1 -1-3 a Kin fir l-JvnvnmQi* and Verses. 2. Arithmetic. 3. ) Same 4. > as 5. ) Monday. X* 1\ 1 1 L J 1UJL L It. 2. Eng. Grammar and Verses. 3. ) Same 4. > as 5. ) Monday. 1 Wvitlnof finrl X« IT IlLlIli: {Villi. Bookkeeping. 2. Writing. 3. Writing. 4. Writing. 5. Writing. 1 ArithmptJp 2. Reading, Spelling, & Meanings. 3. ) 4. ^ Same as Monday. -2 a 1 "Fin or (4rj»niTYi5ir and Essay. 2. Arithmetic. 3. } Same as 4. > Tuesday, 5. ) 3.15-4. 1 A rifhmM iV 1 . i \ 1 1 1 1 1 n i\ \ w >, 2. Grammar and Verses. 3. ) Same 4. > as 5. ) Monday. 1 "Writinnr nrirl 1. it lii/iHg tin* i Bookkeeping. 2. Writing. 3. Writing. 4. Writing. 5. Writing. 1. Arithmetic. 2. History, Dictation, & Meanings. 3. \ 4. > Same as Monday. 5. ) > Pi 3 "£ 1. 2. Half Holiday. 3. 4. 5. John Crawford, House'Governor. 670 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Boys — During summer, boys work in gardens, on an average, two hours a day. Girls — Sewing and knitting two hours a clay, uuder Matron and Sewing Mistress. Make their own underclothing and boys' shirts, also some dresses. Mending stockiugs. Elder girls also instructed in cookery and laundry work. 4. Arithmetic — Compound proportion, practice, fractions, mensuration of surfaces and solids, square and cubic roots. Bible committed to memory — first three chapters in Genesis, 6th chapter of Proverbs. Shorter Catechism. British History (Collier's), the whole of it. Nelson's Book of Poetry and Senior Reader; etymology, spelling, meaning of words. Essays on subjects prescribed ; verses composed ; maps drawn. English Grammar ; Drawing ; Geography of the Globe ; Geography of the British Empire, Europe, Palestine ; and Bookkeeping. 5. Daily instruction is given in religion and hourly training. Sunday — private prayers; family worship; Church forenoon and afternoon ; Sabbath school from 5 to G.30 p.m., by Master and Mistress, and two Assistants ; family worship and private prayers. The intervals are occupied in reading religious books. Each one reads for himself or herself, and sometimes one reads for all. 6. (1) Eighteen. (2) Merit. (3) Yes. (4) By marking daily for three months previously. 7. (1) Yes. (2) 55 feet in length, 24 feet in breadth, and 15^ feet in height. 88 pupils. (3) There is a library. 8 (1) The Managers. (2) House-Governor conducts the instruction of two classes in particular, and directs the whole in general, with the assistance of a junior teacher. Both boys and girls. (3) During the pleasure of the Managers. (4) By giving general directions. 9. Salaries. -g ( Mr. John Crawford, Governor, J Mr. John Gordon, Assistant, . '5 J Miss Jane Neilson, Matron, p§ ( Miss Elizabeth M'Kay, Sewing Mistress, Mr. William Kerr, Singing Master, . Mr. Laubach, Bandmaster, Mr. A. Morley, Drawing Master, Mr. Donelly, Drill Master, £100 0 35 0 45 0 15 0 10 10 7 8 varies. C 3 varies. No fees paid by inmates. 10. No. 11. No. 12. None but this, viz. the general conduct and success in life of the inmates after leaving the Hospital, keeping in view their grade in life, for which see answer to Query 14 below. 13. Not the class of boys for Universities. 14. Record of old pupils from 1856 to 1872, produced herewith. Occupations of Boys who left between 1856 and 1870. At another School Bakers Booksellers Brassfounders . Brushmakers Cabinetmakers . Cabman . Carter Carver Chairmaker Clerks . Civil Engineer Coopers . Confectioner Cover Boy Dairyman Draughtsman Emigrated Factory Hands Farming, out of Scotland 21 1 2 1 1 1 1 3 5 3 ORPHAN HOSPITAL AND WORKHOUSE. 671 Fisherman Footmen . Glass Cutter Glass Stainers Grocers Gunsmith Joiners Lath splitter Marble Cutters Masons Miller Painters Sailors Plumbers Printers Sergeant of Police Shop Porters Smith Soldiers . Stationers Stationmaster . Student Tailors Tinsmiths Upholsterer Victual -dealer, Master Waiters Lost sight of Died in Hospital Died after leaving Bad Yandriver Occupations of Girls who left between 1856 and 1872. At another School Bookkeeper Dressmakers Emigrated Factory Hands ; Governesses Home, Assisting Mothers Machinists Married Milliners . Needlewomen . 2 2 15 2 3 Servants . Shop Girls Trimmer . Died in Hospital Died after leaving Lost sight of Bad 1 12 »» 1 1 2 2 1 1 5 4 5 12 3 1 166 33 3 1 5 9 9 2 108 Known connected with the House before 1856 Known connected with the House from 1856 to 1872 48 274 322 John Crawford, House- Governor. General. Produced herewith, certified extracts from the Minutes of the Managers under the 4 Endowed Hospitals (Scotland) Act, 1869,' together with printed report therein referred to.* ORPHAN HOSPITAL.— LIST OF MANAGERS, COMMITTEES, MONTHLY VISITORS FOR 1872-73. AND PRESIDENT. The Honourable Lord Cowan. MANAGERS. The Rev. Thomas Brown. Messrs. Alexander Auchie. ,, James Wilson. „ Robert Walker. Dr. Omond. Messrs. D. M. Macandrew. „ William Sibbald. The Rev. Mr. Scott Moncrieff. * The object which the Governors had iu view was to board out the beneficiaries iu families, and sell the building. Mr. David Small. The Rev. William Fraser. General Anderson. The Rev. Alexander Whyte. Messrs. David Maclagan. ,, Alexander Scott. ,, William Dickson. 672 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. office-bear;: i Mr. Jolin Scott Moncrieff, Treasurer. Mr. William Brown, Sun/eon. Mr Thomas Martin, Accountant | Mr. J;uncs Gray, Comptroller. 1 Mr. Thomas Strong, W.S., Clerk. Mr. Alexander Auchie. Rev. Mr. Scott Moncrieff. Dr. Omond. COMMITTEES: HOUSE COMMITTEE. Mr. Alexander Scott. General Anderson. Mr. David Small. Messrs. James Wilson. ,, William Dickson. ,, D. M. Macandrew. EDUCATION COMMITTEE. Mr. Robert Walker. Rev. Mr. Whyte. Rev. W. Fraser. Rev. Thomas Brown. Messrs. Alexander Auchie. ,, James Wilson. ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. Robert Walker. Dr. Omond. Mr. D. M. Macandrew. Messrs. David Maclagan. David Small. ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE. I Messrs. D. M. Macandrew. William Sibbald. The Rev. Thomas Brown and Treasurer, members of all Committees. Mr. Robert Walker. } Rev. Mr. Fraser. Mr. W. Sibbald. ) Mr. James Wilson. \ General Anderson. > Rev. Mr. S. Moncrieff. ) Mr. David Maclagan. J Mr. Alexander Scott, j* Mr. William Dickson. > MONTHLY September and March. November and May. January and July. ew. ) VISITORS. Dr. Omond. Rev. Thomas Brow Mr. D. M. Macandrew M r. Alexander Auchie. Rev. Mr. Whyte. General Anderson. Mr. James Wilson. Mr. D. M. Macandrew. Mr. David Small. October and April. December and June. February and August. CAUVIN'S HOSPITAL. 673 CAUVIN'S HOSPITAL, DUDDINGSTON, NEAR EDINBURGH. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. The name of the Founder was Louis Cauvin, some time teacher of the French language in Edinburgh. The date of his trust-settlement was 26th March 1817, and of the last of the codicils 28th October 1824 ; Act of Parliament 28th May 1827 ; date of trust-settlement 26th March 1817, and codicils 28th October 1824. Hospital opened 1833. Act 1 to amend,' etc., 10th August 1842. 2. The specification of the objects of the charity, in terms of the Founders testament, is in these words : c An Hospital and Charitable Institution for the relief, maintenance, and education of such a number of boys, the sons of respectable but poor teachers, the sons of poor but honest farmers, whom failing, the sons of respectable master printers or booksellers, and the sons of respectable servants in the agricultural line, which the remainder of my trust funds shall be sufficient adequately and properly to clothe, educate, and maintain in the said Hospital or Sanctuary.' Two Acts of Parliament were obtained, dated 28th May 1827, and 10th August 1842, and copies may be obtained from the Factor. 3. The estate left by the Founder will appear from the copy of his trust-disposition and settlement, and Act of Parliament to explain and modify the same, obtained on 28th May 1827, with schedule attached, and which are sent herewith. There are also sent herewith, Abstract of the Factor's accounts for the year to 31st December 1871, and state of the funds, showing how the same are at present invested, which will give the information wanted.* 4. The constitution of the trust will be seen from the copy of the regu- lations sent herewith. The Governors of the Institution are as follows, viz.: The Right Honourable the Lord Provost of Edinburgh; Sir Alex- ander Grant, Bart., Principal of the University of Edinburgh ; Rev. J. A. H. Paton, Duddingston; Rev. John Stewart, Liberton ; Rev. J. Mac- Gregor, Newton; Dr. Donaldson, Rector of High School, Edinburgh; A. AVuiicliope, Esq. of Niddrie; J. O. Mackenzie, Esq., W.S., Factor for Duke of Abercorn ; Andrew Scott, Esq., W. S. ; .John Gordon, Esq., Government Inspector of Schools; David Scott, Esq., Meadovvfield, Duddingston; Rev. Dr. Crawford ; and James Hope, Esq., Duddingston. 5. No. 6. The existing Governors are empowered to nominate and appoint others to assist them, over and above those specified in the Founder's trust-settlement. * See end of Answers, p. G77. 2 u 674 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) C /MMISSION. 7. This will be ascertained from the copy of the regulations sent here- with. 8. Enclosed is Act of Parliament, dated 28th May 1827, obtained for the purpose of incorporating the Governors ; making a slight alteration in the ages for admission into and leaving the Institution ; and for powers to sell the heritable property. No other change has been made. 9. Boys, 26 ; girls, none ; — all of whom are children of decayed or necessitous teachers or farmers. Of these, 15 had lost their fathers before entering the Institution. 10. None. 11. Two vacancies and five applicants. 12. Seven are the sons of parochial or burgh schoolmasters, nine are the sons of teachers, ten are sons of farmers. 13. They are admitted between the ages of six and eight, and leave six years after date of admission. 14. None. 15. Yes, in the Governors. 16. The Governors are empowered by the Founder's trust-settlement to present each boy with £10 on his leaving the Institution. This power has been modified to the effect of paying each boy £10 on his becoming bound apprentice to some business. 17. None. 18. None. 19. 20. The abstract referred to under Query 3 gives a statement of the accounts for the last financial year. These accounts are audited annually by Messrs. Dickson and Armitage, chartered accountants, Edinburgh. (Vide p. 677.) II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 26; girls, none. 2. All reside in the Hospital. 3. Yes. 4. (1) Friends may visit when they choose. (2) The older boys are allowed to go out, with the Master's permission ; the younger ones only in charge of friends, or occasionally in charge of older pupils. (3) One day every three months, and six weeks during August and September. 5. See regulations. (1) Pcenas in the shape of a number of lines to copy, etc. (2) Corporal punishment is resorted to very rarely. (3) A system of good-conduct marking is regularly carried on, of which a record is kept, and prizes awarded to the most deserving. 6. Only in respect to behaviour. Any boy may be appointed to report delinquencies during the Master's absence, which are entered in a hand- book kept for the purpose. 7. See regulations. 8. Dimensions of dormitories. Dormitory No. 1 = 40 X 18 X 12 ft. = 432 cubic feet per pupil. Twenty pupils. Dormitory No. 2 = 15 X 14'5 X 10'5 ft. =381 cubic feet per pupil. Six pupils. Average number of pupils in No. 1, 20) , ., , , . i i j. Average number of pupils in No. 2, 6/ Each P u l has a se P arate iron bed > etc ' 9. Cricket, football, rounders, etc., gymnastics and physical exercises, which are generally superintended by the Master. Round games of quartettes, etc., are entered into during the winter evenings. Play-ground No. 1=561 square feet, No. 2=843 square feet. CAUVIN'S HOSPITAL. 675 10. Sec regulations. Sanitary regulations are very good. 11. 'lssdecimal 1, or T ^ death per annum. .12. See regulations LXIV. and LXV., which follow : LXIV. The boys' time shall be fixed in the following manner, viz. : The hour of rising in summer (that is, from 1st of April to 1st October) shall be six ; and in Winter (that is, from 1st October to 1st April), seven o'clock. After being washed and dressed, they, along with the whole household, shall be convened for morning prayers. Dressed and private devotions over at 7 o'clock in summer, and 8 o'clock in winter. In school, for morning worship, etc., at 8 o'clock. Nine to 10, breakfast and recreation. School from 10 to 1, with half an hour interval at half-past 11. Dinner, exactly at 1. Play, from dinner-time to half-past 2. School, from half -past 2 to 4. Play, from 4 to 6. School, from 6 to half-past 7. Supper at 8 during summer, and half -past 7 in winter. Evening worship at 9 in summer, and 8 in winter. The boys to be all in bed in summer at 10, in winter at 9. No teaching on Saturday after 11 o'clock. LXV. (1.) Breakfast to consist of oatmeal porridge and milk. (2.) Dinner, in winter, to consist of butcher-meat and broth, three times a week ; and a sufficient quantity of broth shall be made on each of these days, to serve (when warmed up), with bread, tlje succeeding day. The allowance of butcher-meat to be one pound for every three boys. Once a week potato soup, or broth, with bread. In summer, butcher-meat and broth twice a week, the broth warmed up as before for the two succeeding days ; bread and sweet milk, or rice or barley boiled with milk, or baked in the oven, three times a week. Their dinner may also be occasionally varied by substituting fish, when abundant and good ; and a slice of roasted meat to be added for dinner on Sundays. Potatoes, when in season, to be given with the beef or mutton. (3.) At half -past 4 o'clock in the afternoon, each boy shall get a roll of bread of 5 oz. weight. (4.) Supper to consist of porridge and milk, or occasionally bread and milk, or potatoes and milk. It is understood that these rules as to diet shall be subject to such . alterations as shall be from time to time agreed on by the Visiting Com- mittee, with the advice and suggestions of the Matron. They shall take their meals in the dining-room, each having a plate, knife, and fork, when they have butcher-meat ; and a separate dish and spoon for their broth at dinner, and their porridge and milk at supper. DIET OF THE BOYS. III. Instruction. 1. 2. 8. 4. See reply to Query 12 under heading No. 1. No. Schedule enclosed, and follows : 676 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Table of Work done by the Children of Cauvin's Hospital during Session 1871-72. Highest Class. Religious. English. Arithmetic. Catechism — First 30 with proofs. Bible — Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1st & 2d Samuel, 1st Kings, Acts, and St. John. Advanced Reader, Part 2. Portions of Morell's Grammar. History — English, to reign of King John. Geography — England, Scotland, & Ireland, France, Spain, and Prussia. Compound Rules, Vulgar and Decimal Fractions, Simple and Compound Proportion. Latin. French. German. Mathematics. Jacob's Reader, Parti, pp. 5-11 and 18-31. Reader, Part 2. Fables and two Books of His- tory. Grammatical Ex- ercises & Latin Grammar (Dr. Donaldson's). Schneider's First Course. Grammaire des Gram m aires. Fables, 48 pages. Werner's First Course. Algebra, to end of Simple Equa- tions. Euclid, Book 1, Props. 1 to 36. Reference is also made to the Report on the last Annual Examination of the boys by John Gordon, Esq., Government Inspector of Schools, sent herewith. 5. Sunday time-table. A.M. P.M. 8- 9. Bible instruction, etc. 9- 10. Breakfast, etc. 10- 11. Learn psalm. 11- 2 p.m. Dress, go to church. 2- 3. Change clothes and dine. 3- 4. Walk in ground. 4- 8. Reading books from library. 8-9. Religious instruction and devotions. 6. The school (26 pupils) is divided into three ; which again are sub- divided for special subjects, according to the abilities of the pupils. Prizes are awarded according to a system of class-marking and occa- sional written examinations. 7. The school-room is very suitable,=28 x 20 x 12*5 ft. There is a good library. 8. The Master is appointed by the Governors. He conducts the whole teaching in the Institution, other than Music and Drawing lessons ; the masters for these branches are appointed by the Governors. 9. Head Master, Mr. Thomas Ross, salary £100, with board, etc., in addition ; Music Master, £13 ; Drawing Master, £15. No part of these salaries is derived from fees. The masters are removable at the pleasure of the Governors. The Matron's salary is £50 per annum, with board, etc. 10. If the Governors so decide, this may be done. CAUVIN'S HOSPITAL. 677 11. Report on annual examination of the boys on 2Gth July last, by John Gordon, Esq., Government Inspector of Schools, produced herewith. 12. No. 13. 1 pupil left in 1846. Now Doctor in Greenock. 1 ,, 1851. Now Assistant Professor in Owen's College, M.mchcstcr. 1 1857. For Edinburgh University ; took gold medal, and is now Doctor in Bradford, Yorkshire. 1 ,, 1863. For Edinburgh University ; gained Greek Travelling Scholarship. 1 ,, 1866. For Cambridge University. 1 ,, 1871. Entered Edinburgh University. 2 ,, 1872. Entered Edinburgh High School in advanced clas.se;j. Numerous other examples could be given. 14. Such a record could be made up, but only after great labour, from the number who have passed through the Institution. General. No. David Scott, Factor and Secretary. Abstract of Account of Charge and Discharge of the Factor and Treasurer for the Governors of Cauvin's Hospital, for the year ending 31st December 1871. Income. Feu-duties and Ground Rents for the year received, .... £332 13 3J Interest on Heritable Bonds received, 649 13 Z\ Rents received, 23 0 0 Miscellaneous Receipts, 9 18 0 Amount of Income, . . £1.015 4 7 Expenditure. Feu-duties, Public and Parish Burdens, etc., . . . £48 17 6 Repairs and Improvements, 61 7 5 Salaries to Masters and to tho Matron, .... 145 10 0 Wages to House Servants and Gatekeeper, . . . 82 18 0 Maintenance of the Establishment, viz. : — Clothing for Boys, . . . . £60 7 4 School-Books, Stationery, etc., . 7 4 7 Furnishings for Institution, . . 8 12 0 Butcher Meat, 109 7 10 Bread, 60 16 8 Groceries, Milk, Meal, Barley, Vege- tables, etc., 86 0 3 Gas, 7 16 1 Coals 33 10 0 Petty Disbursements by Matron, . 12 10 0 386 4 9 Fire Insurance Premiums, 2 4 3 Allowances to Boys on leaving Hospital, . . . 80 0 0 Miscellaneous Payments, including Allowance to Factor. Auditor's Fee, etc., 101 7 10 Carry fur w.i rd, 1911 9 9 11,015 4 V 678 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £911 9 9 £1,015 4 7 Progressive Interest on the Currency of the Factor's Accounts, 12 10 4 Amount of Expenditure, . . 924 0 1 Difference, . . £91 4 6 To which add — Feu-duties and Eent receivable during 1871, but in arrear at its close, . 24 3 4 Apparent Surplus, . £115 7 10 But the following Accounts for Clothing, Furnishing, etc*, though due at 31st December 1871, could not be paid till afterwards?, viz. : — For Clothing, £112 0 0 ' Butcher Meat, 10 7 0 Bread, 21 12 1 Groceries, • . . . . 43 0 11 Fee to Medical Attendant, 25 0 0 Salary to Mr. Boss for Quarter, 25 0 0 Seats in Church, 2 6 0 Gas, 5 15 0 Law Expenses, 16 16 0 Sundries, say 20 0 0 281 17 0 Showing a Deficiency of Income during the year to cover the Expenditure of £166 9 2 The Expense of the Institution amounted in 1870 to £1,183, 4s. 7d., and in 1871, as above, to £1,205, 17s. Id. NOTE. Extract from Cauvhi's Testament. — ' I do hereby mortify, gift, grant, and appropriate the same, and whole appurtenances thereto belonging, as an Hospital and Charitable Institution, for the relief, maintenance, and education of such a number of boys, the sons of respectable but poor teachers, the sons of poor but honest farmers, whom failing, the sons of respectable master printers or booksellers, and the sons of respectable servants in the agricultural line, which the remainder of my trust-funds shall be sufficient adequately and properly to clothe, educate, and maintain in the said Hospital or Sanctuary : And all vacancies that shall happen in the said Hospital shall be supplied and filled up by my said Trustees, and those to be named by me or assumed by them, or quorum aforesaid ; declaring, that the boys to be admitted into the said Hospital must be descended of honest, industrious, and well-behaved parents, whose circumstances in life do not enable them suitably to support and educate their children at other schools.' •STIELL'S HOSPITAL. 679 SHELL'S HOSPITAL, TRANENT, IN THE COUNTY OF HADDINGTON. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. George Stiell, late smith, residing in North Bridge Street, Edinburgh, died on 30th January 1812, but the Hospital was not built and opened until August 1822. 2. c To found and endow an Hospital or Charitable Institution within the village of Tranent, or in its immediate vicinity, in the county of East Lothian, and for the aliment, clothing, and education of poor children for e?er.' Resolutions contained in Minutes of Trustees and Governors and Directors. From Frederick Pitman, W.S., 48 Castle Street, Edinburgh, the Factor. 3. The capital sum left by the Founder was £15,035, 15s. Certain lands were purchased in the vicinity of Tranent, on which the Hospital was erected. The remaining accumulated funds are now invested in houses, heritable securities, and Government stocks. The gross revenue for the year ending 15th February 1872 was £784, lis. 2d. The net revenue, after deducting public and parish burdens, outlay on improve- ment of property, and expenses of management, but not deducting Hospital expenses, was £579, 12s. 8d< 4. The trust disposition and settlement of the Founder. The Lord Justice-Clerk of Scotland, the Sheriff-Depute of the County of Haddington, and the minister of the parish of Tranent, and their successors in office. 5. No. 6. Become Governors ex officiis. 7. There are two half-yearly statutory meetings, an annual meeting at the examination of the Hospital, and the minister of the parish frequently visits the Hospital, and sees that everything is going on right. 8. It is ; but the original programme of the Truster has been extended so as to give a higher class education than was originally proposed. This has been done under the powers of the trust-deed, as to which the Governors have been guided by the opinion of counsel and Mr. Simon S. Laurie, the Secretary of the Education Committee of the Church of Scotland. Printed prospectus sent herewith. 9. None under new arrangements. 10. None as to education. Maintained by parents, except lunch. 11. 17 on 12th October 1870. About 50 applicants. 12. CHILDREN ADMITTED AT LAST ELECTION, 12th October 1870." Hinds. Robert Grieve, Robert Grieve, Hind. Ann Greig, Robert Greig, Do. 680 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Miners. John Davie, James Innes, Thomas Davie, W. Innes, John Howie, W. Brown, Peter Reid, H. Swan, A. Mack, TV. Archibald, T. Henderson, Miner. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Alexander Howie, John Brown, Francis Reid, Alary Swan, Mary Mack, William Archibald, Janet Henderson, Fishermen. Margaret Dickson, Walter Grundy, Peter Thomson, John Johnstone, John Dickson, R. Grundy, P. Thomson, J. Johnstone, Fisherman. Do. Do. Do. Labourer. William Young, R. Young, Labourer. 13. Must be 7 and not above 10 on entrance, and leave at 14. 14. Preference given first to boys or girls of the name of Stiell ; failing them, boys or girls belonging to the parish of Tranent ; then to boys or girls belonging to parishes of Prestonpans, Gladsmuir, and Pencaitland. There is an entrance examination, which is fixed by Governors. It consists of reading, simple addition and subtraction, and writing words on a slate. 15. Yes ; in the Governors. 16. In terms of the trust-deed, Governors give such sums as they think right for apprentice outfits, etc. to Foundationers considered by general scholarship and conduct entitled thereto. Under the altered regulations, in addition to certain bursaries to be held while the children remain at the Hospital, it is also proposed to give a College bursary or bursaries of £25 to the best boy or boys who have been not less than three years in the Upper School ; providing always, that when more than one bursary offered, one shall be confined specially to Foundationers, and that such boy can pass entrance examination prescribed by University of Edinburgh ; and a bursary of £10 to the best scholar among the girls on the Foundation, to enable her to qualify as a teacher, such girl passing an examination to be arranged. 17. Foundationers all live with their parents, and receive only free education and lunch. 18. 65. Lower School, 2s. 6d. fees per quarter ; Higher do., 5s. per quarter. Additional charges for Languages — Mathematics, 2s. 6d., and Piano Music, 5s. See prospectus sent. 19. In eligibility to compete for College bursaries. 20. The accounts are audited yearly, at 15th February, by Alexander W. Robertson, C.A., Abercrombie Place, Edinburgh. As the new regu- lations had not been for a full year in operation at 15th February last, a statement of the account for the last financial year will not give a correct idea of the present Hospital expenditure. Mr. Robertson's reports on the accounts for many years past are in the hands of the Factor, and can be exhibited if desired. (See end of Answers, p. 687.) II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. None. 2. None. STIELL/S HOSPITAL. 681 3. No. I. Six weeks' holidays iu summer, a holiday every Saturday, and oeca- sional holidays. 5. Impositions, 4 the taws'; no record kept. Master determines punishment, except in cases of serious importance, which are reported to Governors. 6. No. 7. Does not apply. 8. Does not apply. 9. Shinty, handball, games. Indulge as freely as pupils at other schools. Play-ground about one acre. 10. Lavatories and ordinary provision for cleanliness. Sanitary arrange- ments good. II. None. 12. Does not apply. III. Instruction. 1. Artisans, miners, fishermen, and hinds. LIST OF CHILDREN, WITH PARENTS' OCCUPATION. Fishermen. 1. "Walter Grundy, Robert Grundy, Fisherman, Cockenzie. 2. Alison Home, Peter Home, Do. 3. Mary Allan, William Allan, Do. 4. Wilhelmina Home, Peter Home, Do. 5. Ann Pow, Adam Pow, Do. 6. George Pow, Charles Pow, Do. 7. Alison Donaldson, Adam Donaldson, Do. 8. Jane Flucker, James Flucker, Do. 9. Thomas Dickson, Peter Dickson, Do. 10. Isabella Flucker, John Flucker, Do. 11. Jessie Jerron, Thomas Jerron, Do. 12. William Pow, Adam Pow, Do. 13. Elizabeth Pow, George Pow, Do. 14. Elizabeth Marshall, Thomas Marshall, Do. 15. Hannah Sinclair, Alexander Sinclair, Do. 16. Jane Marshall, Thomas Marshall, Do. 17. Alison Stuart, John Stuart, Do. 18. Christina Peden, Alexander Peden, Do. 19. Margaret Dickson, John Dickson, Do. 20. Robert Greig, Peter Greig, Do. 21. John Johnstone, John Johnstone, Do. 22. Catherine Ross, James Ross, Do. 23. Margaret Harkiss, Andrew Harkiss, Do. 24. Robert Coull, John Coull, Do. 25. Margaret Allan, Angus Allan, Do. 26. Mary Thomson, Peter Thomson, Do. 27. Peter Thomson, Peter Thomson, Do. 28. Jane Dickson, Alexander Dickson, Do. 29. John Stuart, Alexander Stuart, Do. 30. Janet Donaldson, Thomas Donaldson, Do. 31. Agnes Matheson, James Matheson, Do. 32. Catherine Johnstone. Alexander Johnstone, Do. Hinds. 1. James Forrest, G. Forrest, Hind. 2. Thomas Dickson, Andrew Dickson, Do. 3. George Shepherd, G. Shepherd, Do. 4. Robert White, R. White, Do. 5. Mark Watt, R. Watt, Do. 682 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 6. Isabella Cairncross, 7 Robert Grieve, 8. Robert Johnstone, 1. Marion Mill, 2. Elizabeth Dudgeon, 3. Margaret M'Niell, 4. George M'Niell, 5. William Wallace, 6. Francis Reid, 7. Agnes Reid, 8. John Wise, 9. Alexander Mack, 10. Mary Mack, 11. John Howie, 12. Mary Swan, 13. Margaret Swan, 14. James Innes, 15. W. Archibald, 1. William Douglas, 2. John Guild, 3. William Young, 4. George Stevenson, 5. Marian Morton, 6. Euphemia Ormiston 7. John Porteous, 8. Jane Barrie, 9. Thomas Scott, 10. Andrew Renton, 11. Joan Fowler, J. Cairncross, R. Grieve, R. Johnstone, Miners. A. Mill, A. Dudgeon, T. M'Niell, A. M'Niell, W. Wallace, P. Reid, J. Reid, R. Wise, A. Mack, A. Mack, J. Howie, H. Swan, H. Swan, W. Innes, W. Archibald, Labourers. W. Douglas, J. Guild, R. Youug, D. Stevenson, G. Morton, W. Ormiston, J, Porteous, R. Barrie, Joseph Scott, A. Renton, J. Fowler, Hind. Do. Do. Miner. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do, Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Labourer. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Carter. Plasterer. Blacksmith. Carrier. 2. No. 3. Three schedules filed by Head-Master, Assistant-Master, and Assistant Female Teacher, which follow : STIELL'S HOSPITAL. 683 bo i § 1 p M T 1 Z. 02 P ^ S3 -1' •S3 & o .S s s § K<5 o p. Q a. a -P ~ "£ & bO-i? O o o pq s<§3 a litis be g g g "S o^o a v & 2 p o o a a CO CO Q Q I Is as * S S g>.g GO CO o g bo ca •5b J m Q bo a 5 5 - 3 rt .-- ^fl £ o £< ^ft^£ a- tH* O o o al ' 5P ft o a; 9P o T3 03 1^1 g^g ^g-g o « o£ J -3 * co PQ a> "43 tc 3 ° "S 03 03 03 'ft o . bo 50 J-* .22 a •t? ft a ^ £ 2 .22 « t£ftpft" bD . <

$ bO 3.S "o O P3 . S-i d> AW § £ SJ P-l • c i .3 9 8 1 I'sS-s bo ^ .2 -9 .2 Nil <; fL, h w <3 Q o »o .■^ iH CO ^ CO CO Oj CN 686 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 4. Not so high as it will be, as the department is only in its infancy. 5. Bible reading, Shorter Catechism, repeating Psalms. Daily instruc- tion in these. 6. Eleven is the average over the whole school. There are twenty in some classes. Progress regulates promotion. Prizes are given to those who prove themselves the best scholars by competition, and worthy otherwise during the session. 7. Yes ; three class-rooms. About 60 in each large school-room. No library. SIZE OF SCHOOL-ROOMS. Upper School, length, 39ft. 6in. Breadth, 19ft. 4in. Height, 13ft. Lower School, „ 30ft. „ 19ft. 4in. „ 10£ft. Female Assistant's Room, . . „ 31ft. 8in. „ 17ft. lOin. „ 10ft. AVERAGE SIZE OF CLASSES IN SCHOOLS. 11.2 is average number in each class in the whole school. 8. Governors and Directors appoint all the Masters. The Head-Master teaches Upper School, and has supervision of whole. A Second Master teaches Lower School. Masters hold office on notice of three months being given on either side. 9. List filed herewith, and follows : LIST OF TEACHERS. John Williamson, M.A., Head-Master. James M'Indoe, Assistant-Master. Miss Allan, Female Assistant and Teacher of Music. Miss Milroy, Matron, and Teacher of Knitting and Sewing. SALARIES. Head -Master, not including Board, and half of Fees in Upper School .... £85 0 0 Assistant, including allowance for Board, and excluding half of Fees in Lower School 80 0 0 Assistant (Female), with Board 25 0 0 Matron . . . 28 0 0 Total £218 0 0 RATE OF FEES. Upper School, 5s. Od. per quarter, for English. ,, 7s. 6d. for English, Latin, French, Mathematics, etc. ,, 5s. Od. for Music. (Separate Fee.) Lower School, 2s. 6d. per quarter. AMOUNT OF FEES FOR PRESENT QUARTER. Upper School Fees £9 17 6 Music 2 15 0 Lower School Fees 3150 Total £16 7 6 Three months' notice. 10. No. 11. Copy of Mr. Laurie's report sent herewith. 12. 13. 14. STIELL'S HOSPITAL. 687 General. Yes ; as above stated in answer to query 8. The change is so recent that the Directors cannot express any very decided opinion as to the result, but the experience of one year is certainly satisfactory ; and the Directors have every reason to think that the change which has taken place in the administration of the funds will be beneficial to the parishioners of Tranent and district. Accounts of Stiell's Hospital, Tranent, for the year ending February 1873. State of the Property and Funds belonging to the Governors and Directors of George Stiell's Hospital, Tranent, as at 15th February 1873. 1. Lands and Heritages (Lands in the parish of Tranent and House Pro- perty in Edinburgh), yielding a gross rental of .... £467 0 0 2. Sums lent on Heritable Security, 6250 0 0 3. Government Stocks, 1235 0 0 4. In Union Bank, . 471 3 10 Eevenue for the year :— 1. Eental of the Heritable Property, £467 0 0 2. Dividends on Government Stocks, 39 0 0 3. Interest on Loans, 263 5 0 4. Interest on Account in Union Bank, 4 19 9 5. Miscellaneous Interest, 0 12 0 6. Miscellaneous Keceipts, . , 37 2 6| Total Eevenue, £811 19 3£ Expenditure for the year : — 1. Salaries and Wages, £219 12 2 2. Sums expended by Eector and Matron for House Ex- penses, . . . . . 206 1 2 3. Accounts for Miscellaneous Furnishings, . . . 50 15 1 4. Public Burden, Feu-duties, and other Charges, . . 48 3 6£ 5. Eepairs, 89 0 5 6. Expenses of Management (Governors, Factor, and Accountant), '. . 51 11 0 7. Gratuities, Bursaries, and Board for old Scholars, . 52 19 3 8. Expenses in connection with New Constitution, . 28 13 6 9. Miscellaneous Expenses, 4 11 3 10. Income-Tax, 6 0 9 757 8 1\ Excess of Income over Expenditure, £54 11 2 688 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. JAMES SCHAW'S HOSPITAL, PARISH OF PRES- TONPANS, COUNTY OF HADDINGTON. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. Founded by trust-deed, 4th December 1781, and deed of divest- ment, 28th November 1787. Printed copies herewith sent. Founder: Dr. James Schaw. Royal Charter of Incorporation dated 25th January, and sealed 5th April, 1830. 2. After paying life annuities to certain relatives and others, and giving small annuities of in all £36 to certain charities, 4 for the special intent and purpose of founding and endowing an hospital or charitable insti- tution for the aliment, clothing, and education of poor boys, and also for binding said boys apprentices, or otherwise setting them out to business, all in the most frugal and sober manner.' Providing also that the ' lands and barony of Preston', where the Testator resided, shall ' never be sold or alienated on any pretence whatever,' and that the house of Preston be fitted up to accommodate boys till a suitable building be erected. No subsequent statutes bearing on the foundation. Trust deed registered in Books of Council and Session (office 0. M.) 20th December 1784, and deed of divestment registered in said books 30th November 1787. 3. The estate of Preston, in Prestonpans parish, where the Hospital is situated, and any residue of funds belonging to the Testator. The said estate in lands and minerals remains, in so far as the latter are un- wrought ; and there is £2G13, lGs. lOcl. of Government New 3 per Cents., and £270 or thereby in bank. Reference is made to pp. 12 to 15 of Printed Petition for a Provisional Order herewith sent. 4. To local heritable proprietors in Prestonpans parish, with the minister of that parish, and certain (1G) other official Trustees. The names are annually given in Oliver & Boyd's Edinburgh Almanac, and they are also appended to the printed copy of the trust deed herewith sent. 5. No. G. In terms of trust-deed, through owning certain lands in Preston- pans parish, or holding certain offices. 7. A general meeting of Trustees is held at the Hospital for its inspec- tion, at least annually ; and a general meeting of Trustees takes place in Edinburgh quarterly. A Standing Committee visits and examines the Hospital at least quarterly ; while the minister of the parish, at the re- quest and with the authority of the other Trustees, takes a general super- vision in ordinary of all the Hospital interests, in concurrence with the Factor. 8. Yes ; considered so. In 1864 the Trustees resolved to admit a limited number of day scholars on payment of fees. There are at present 13. Copy of printed regulations as to day scholars herewith sent. For a few years past the Trustees have admitted a limited number of boarders JAMES SCHAW'S HOSPITAL. G89 at the rate of £20 per annum, which includes board and education, but not clothes. There are four boarders at present. The introduction of boarders and day scholars has been found very beneficial to the Institu- tion, but no part of their expense is paid out of the capital or income of 1 he Trust. 9. Boys, 11; girls, none. Of whom 8 are fatherless ; of whom 3, though ont fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. None. 11. Two vacancies. Four applicants. 12. The two boys elected are both fatherless. The father of the one was a butler, but his widow became paralytic. The father of the other was a coal-miner, and his widow and family were on the poor's roll. 13. Enter at from five to seven, and leave at fourteen. 14. The names of Schaw, M'Neil, Cunningham, and Stewart are cceteris paribus (and the person in need of the charity) to be preferred. The child must be free of king's evil and contagious disease, and deemed mentally capable of profiting by the ordinary instruction given. No literary examination. The surgeon judges of the mental capacity of the child. 15. Yes. In the Governors. 16. A small annual allowance of £3, 3s. given during apprentice- ship, if conduct and progress satisfactory, but never beyond five years. 17. None. 18. Thirteen day scholars residing with their parents. See printed rules as to day scholars herewith sent. Fees, 5s. per quarter. 19. The day pupils compete with the Foundationers on equal terms for certain book prizes purchased by the fees of the day pupils, that are given annually, but get nothing else on leaving. 20. Abstract of Factor's account for year to 30th September 1872, herewith sent. Factor's accounts audited annually by an accountant appointed by the Trustees. Abstract of Account of Charge and Discharge between the Trustees of James Schaw's Hospital and George Bruce, W.S., their Factor, from 30th September 1871 to 30th September 1872. Charge. ] . Arrear j of Feu-duties, . . £28 12 2. Rental of year, ...... . 812 18 3. Dividends on Government Stocks, 78 8 2 4. Income-Tax retained, . 2 1G 1 6. Board received, ...... 80 0 0 6. Miscellaneous Receipts, .... 2 5 3 7. Interest received, . 19 18 8 Sum of Charge. . £1024 18 10** DisciiAitaK. 1. Balance due to Factor at close of last Account, . , £9 13 5 ■ 2. Annuities Paid, ..... . 34 0 0 3. Public Burdenp, Taxes, and Fire Insurance, . 17. Maintenance, Medicine, etc., . . . . 200 8 9 7. Coals and Light, ..... . 21 0 *A 8. Salaries and Wages, .... . 150 14 8 9. Allowances to Boys after leaving Hospital, . 18 15 0 10. Property and Income Tax paid, . . 17 13 8 Carry forward, 4707 0 OA B1024 1* 10 », 2 x 690 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £707 0 Qf 2 £1024 18 10^ 11. Miscellaneous Payments and Expenses connected with Education, . . . . . 28 4 9 12. Expenses of Management, . . . 62 15 2 13. Arrears at close of this Account, . . . 47 6 7-j^ 14. Bank Operations — Deposits more than Drawings by . 241 7 4 Sum of Discharge, . . £1086 13 10-& Balance due to Factor at 30th September 1872, .... £61 14 Uf § Note. -Sum in Bank at 30th September 1872, . . . £865 9 5 Deduct above Balance due to Factor at said date, . . 61 14 11}° Leaves at Credit of Trustees at 30th September 1872, . £803 14 5^ Whereof Capital, £269, 6s. 7d. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 11 ; girls, none. 2. There are none to which this query applies. 3. Yes; except in the case of the very young, but now not insisted upon. 4. Under supervision of Master, boys receive visits of relatives or friends during spare hours, i.e. when not engaged at school work, with- out restraint; and at other times on special permission, asked and obtained from the Master. They are also, under similar supervision, permitted to visit their relatives and others who take interest in them. There is a summer vacation of six weeks ; and New Year's Day, the Queen's Birth- day, and Dr. Schaw's Birthday are holidays. There is no teaching on Saturdays. 5. Reprimand, extra tasks, loss of play, application of ' the taws.' The Master in ordinary cases; and if an extreme case occurred, the Standing Committee. No record kept. 6. No ; except that one of the elder boys is occasionally appointed censor, to report to the Master in the event of any misbehaviour coming under his notice. 7. The Master's bedroom has a window or wicket looking into the boys' dormitory ; and the Matron superintends the boys' washing and dressing. 8. 30 feet long, 18 feet wide, lOf feet high = 5805 ; and as there are 15 boys at present sleeping in the same, the cubical space to each will be 387 feet. There are one or two double beds. 9. Shinty, football, ' Scotch and English,' occasionally cricket and other ball games, all left quite ' as free ' as pupils in other schools are. A grass park of about four acres, with a covered shed in it, for use in foul weather. 10. Lavatory and bath-room fitted up with hot and cold water ; covered privy for ordinary use out-of-doors, and water-closet within- doors for emergency over night. All the sanitary arrangements are unexceptionable. 11. About 666 per cent. ; but in point of fact there has been only one death (which happened a year or two ago from consumption, or something akin to it) within the Hospital since its institution. 12. Time-table herewith sent, and follows : — Twenty -four Hours' Time-Table. 7.0 A.M. Rise at Seven. 7.0 — 9.0 Wash, Clean, and Dress. Private Devotions. Brush Clothes, Clean Shoes, Make Beds. Breakfast, 9.0 — 10.0 Morning Prayers and Recreation. JAMES SCHAW'S HOSPITAL. 691 10.0—1.0 In School. 1.0 — 2.0 Dinner and Recreation. 2.0—4.0 In School. 4.0 — 6.0 Recreation. Tea at Five. 6.0 — 8.0 Preparing School Lessons. 8.0 — 9.0 Private Reading, or Fireside Amusements. 9.0 — 10.0 Evening Prayers, and to Bed. Breakfast. — Oatmeal porridge and sweet milk daily. In forenoon a piece of bread with occasionally fruit, and in winter bread with butter. Dinner. — Butcher meat with broth and bread, three times a week. Broth and bread with cheese, twice a week. Soup and bread once a week. Soup or broth with bread and suet dumpling, once a week, varied by the substitution of rice with milk and bread ; eggs, with bread and butter and milk, or potatoes and fish. At five o'clock, tea with bread and butter ; and between eight and nine, a roll or piece of bread ; jam or jelly being added on Sundays. Also occasional treats of strawberries, gooseberries, apples or pears, or the like, in their season, when the Trustees pay their periodical visits, and express satisfaction with the conduct and progress of the boys. III. Instruction. 1. From the humbler classes. Father of 1 a writer, S.S.C., who be- came bankrupt ; 1 an engineman ; 1 a gardener ; 3 or 4 farm servants, or ■ labourers, or seamen ; 4 or 5 tradesmen, small grocers, or shopmen. 2. No. 3. Time-table herewith, and follows. No industrial instruction given » except in cultivating small flower gardens, and dressing shrubbery and gravel walks under supervision of Master. Instruction Time-Table. 1st Hour. Religious Instruction, Bible, and Shorter Catechism. 2d ,, English and History Lessons. 3d ,, Grammar, Latin, French. 4th ,, Writing and Junior English. 5th ,, Arithmetic and Geography, or Dictation. 4. Scriptvre Knowledge. — Judges, I. and II. Samuel. English. — Most of the poetry in E wing's Principles of Elocution. History. — England, to end of House of York, from ' Collier's British Empire.' Grammar. — To end of complex sentences, from 4 Dalgleish's Grammatical Analysis.' Geography. — England, Europe, and Asia in detail. Arithmetic. — To ex- traction of square root. Latin. — To end of fables from ' Dr. Bryce's First Latin Reader.' French. — Parts I. and III. from 4 Hall's First French Course.' 5. Reading of the Bible, with occasional explanatory remarks in ac- cordance with the doctrinal teaching of the Westminster Assembly's Shorter Catechism. Sunday time-table given herewith. Time-Table for Sunday. Morning Prayers. Private Reading. Change Dress, and otherwise Prepare for Church. At Church. Dinner. Walk in Grounds. At Church. Walk in Grounds. 9.0—10.0 10.0—11.0 11.0—1.0 1.0—2.0 2.0—4.0 4.0—5.0 G92 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 5.0 — 6.30 Tea. Chapter from Bible, or from such Books as ' Line Upon Line,' or ' Lines Left Out,' read to the younger boys. G.30 — 8.0 Examined on Catechism Learned. Passage from Bible Read and Explained, or from some other Religious Book. 8.0—9.0 Evening Allowance of Bread and Jelly given. Prayers. Bed. 6. Nine. Age and degree of advancement. Yes ; in the shape of a book to each of the best scholars, while a smaller gift-book is presented by way of encouragement to the others, and both descriptions paid for out of the fees received from day scholars. The prizes are awarded on the report of the Master as to the merit generally of each pupil. 7. Yes. 30 feet long, 18 feet wide, 13 feet high. 29 pupils in attendance. There is a small library, and a ticket for procuring the loan of books from the Edinburgh Subscription Library; also monthly religious publications are supplied. 8. The Trustees. The Master has the whole teaching, and general superintendence and charge, and holds his office during the pleasure of the Trustees. 9. There is but one Master, who, besides lodging, board, and washing, receives a salary of £77, 10s., and about £5 arising from portion of fees of day scholars. Answer as to tenure of office given under preceding particular. 10. No. 11. Several of the Governors who assist at the quarterly examinations of the Hospital having been at one time professional public teachers, no extraneous aid in examining has been found needful. 12. Yes. Some of the Governors are actively employed in the govern- ment of other similar institutions, and therefore competent to contrast this Institution with others. 13. None known to have gone from the Hospital to the University during the last ten years, the original design of this Institution being rather to train and fit out poor lads for trades or mercantile employment of the humbler kind ; yet it is believed that some meritorious pupils have worked themselves forward ultimately to good positions. 14. The present minister of Prestonpans, as an active local Governor, has for upwards of twenty years kept a record of all the former Founda- tioners who have ia any way creditably distinguished themselves and revisited the Hospital, or communicated with him, since their outset in life. One of these, from an apprenticeship to an apothecary in Edinburgh, went to practise as a physician in America, and when chief medical adviser to the Governor of Bolivia, presented a gold medal to be competed for annually by the Hospital boys. Others have risen to good commercial position, one of them having several hundred people in his employment. Many have become foremen in their respective trades, and some cashiers. General. Encouraged by public invitation, the Trustees, at considerable trouble, prepared a scheme of improvement, and formally applied to the Home Secretary for a Provisional Order to enable them to carry it out, but the application was refused. MORGAN HOSPITAL. 693 MORGAN HOSPITAL, DUNDEE, FORFARSHIRE, I. Nature of Foundation. 1. Eighth of February 1861. Opened 5th of February 1868. John Morgan, formerly of Coates Crescent, in the City of Edinburgh. See scheme.* 2. Copy scheme by the Court of Session, on remit by the House of Lords, sent herewith. 3. Capital £73,500, of which £61,500 is invested on heritable security — £60,000 at 4 per cent., and £1500 at 4^ per cent., besides £1500 in bank, say at 2£ per cent., making net annual revenue £2505. 4. See scheme. (End of Answers.) 5. No. 6. See scheme. (End of Answers.) 7. Entire control. 8. Application in terms of scheme. 9. Boys, 90; of whom 60 are fatherless, 6 are motherless, and 12 are orphans ; of whom 12, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. The remaining 10 boys are to be elected in Feb- ruary 1873, to make up the complement of 100 boys. 10. None. 11. No vacancies, but 10 additional boys were taken in. 145 schedules were given by the clerk, 78 were returned, and from these the 10 boys were selected. 12. Fatherless 2 whose fathers had been Cabmen. „ 1 Printer. „ 1 „ Cabinetmaker. „ 2 „ Lappers. „ 1 „ Mill Foreman. Orphan 1 „ Working Engineer. Fatherless 1 „ Clerk. „ 1 „ Porter. 13. They are admitted from seven to nine years, and leave at fourteen years. See scheme. 14. Either of their parents must have been born in either of the towns of Dundee, Forfar, Montrose, or Arbroath. No entrance examination except by medical officer. See scheme. 15. Yes, in the Governors. 16. Nothing special. See scheme. The Head Master has a discre- tionary power to supply the boys with upper and under clothing for the first two years of their apprenticeship. See General. 17. None. 18. 19. 20. * Bee Note at cud of Answers. 694 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Report on the Accounts of the Morgan Hospital, Dundee, for the Year ending 31st December 1871. I have examined the Accounts of the Treasurer for the year ending 31st December last, and have found them correct and sufficiently vouched. An Abstract of the Accounts is annexed. The position of the Hospital Funds, as at the close of the Accounts, is shown by the following Statement : — Stock Account — Amount as fixed by Interlocutor of the Court of SessioD, .... £73,500 0 0 Deduct Loss and Depreciation on Investment in Annuities, ..... 1,783 5 1 £71,716 11 11 LVvcnuc Account, from commencement to 31st Dec. 1871, 28,541 12 5 Building A ccount — Payments to Tradesmen, Eedemp- tion of Feu, etc., ..... £26.267 16 1\ Furnishings for Hospital, .... 1,675 13 0 Household and Ordinary Expenditure, . . 8,467 7 2^ £36,440 16 10 Invested on Heritable Bond, . . . 60,000 0 0 Do. on £3000 New 3 per cent. Annuities— pre- sent value, ..... 2,775 0 0 Taxes recoverable, . . . . . 74 5 6 Balance in Account with the National Bank, . 971 5 0 £100,261 £100,261 7 Humbly reported by JOHN W. WARDEN, Accountant, Auditor. Dundee, 7th February 1872. Abstract of the Intromissions to the Treasurer to the Morgan Hospital, Dundee, for the Year ending 31st December 1871. Charge. 1. Revenue — Interest on Heritable Bond, per £60,000, . £2,400 0 0 Dividends on £3000 New 3 per cent. Annuities . 90 0 0 Interest on National Bank Account, . . 10 2 8 £2,500 2 8 2. National Bank of Scotland — Balance in Bank at 31st December 1870, .... 1,003 19 5 £3,504 2 1 Discharge. Building Account — Heating Apparatus. — J. Coombe & Ron, . . . £123 0 0 Cooking Apparatus. — Benham & Sons, . . 42 15 0 Mason Work for above. — G. Haggart, . . 30 0 0 Felting for above. — D. Jobson, jun., . . . 4 2 4 New Cistern, etc. — J. Reoch, . . . . 14 1 3 Joiner Work. — D. Bremner, . . . 11 2 1 Painting. — A. Drummond, . . . 31 7 6 Sundries, 0 9 3 2. Furnishings, etc. — Upholstery.— R. Buist, . . . . . £49 18 8 Furniture. — Fairweather & Armitt, . . . 5 6 6 Bedsteads.— D. Keay, . . . . 11 9 1 Hardware, etc., . . . . . 4 16 10 £256 17 5 71 11 1 3. Household and Ordinary Expenditure — Bread, . . . . . . £160 16 9 Butcher Meat, . . . . . . 176 10 5 Groceries, ....... 157 8 10 Carry forward, . . £494 16 0 £328 8 6 MORGAN HOSPITAL. 695 £494 16 0 £328 8 6 278 19 5 111 19 2 5 9 4 359 8 2 31 18 5 31 13 7 23 14 6 8 15 3 34 6 11 18 19 0 4 2 0 73 12 1 413 0 2 20 14 1 75 0 0 10 10 0 95 3 6 23 13 9 36 9 5 2,152 4 9 52 3 10 £2,532 17 1 951 5 0 £3,504 2 1 JOHN W. WARDEN, Auditor. Dundee, 7 th February 1872. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Ninety boys. 2. 3. They have nothing in the shape of an Hospital uniform to distinguish them from other boys. They wear a tweed knickerbocker suit and Glen- garry bonnet, and during the last year of their stay they are clad in trousers — the cloth varied according to their own taste and the position in life they are to occupy. 4. The formal visit of parents to the institution is on the first Wednes- day of every month, from 12 noon to 2 p.m., but free access is at all times given consistent with the education and progress of the boys. During the winter months they go home every second Saturday. In the summer months they go home every Saturday, unless any epidemic prevail. Home- sickness is a common complaint, and is always gratified, and hence we have no runaways. Six weeks' holidays are allowed, and all who have friends able to keep them go home ; and last year, at the recommendation of the Head Master, boys were boarded with friends who had the accommodation but not the means. 5. Deductions from class marks ; writing of lessons imperfectly learned ; curtailment of play ; and, severest of all, one or two hours taken off the Saturday home visit. When corporal punishment is necessary, it is done in the presence of the whole boys, and only by the Head Master. No record of punishments is kept. No such thing in family life is ever done. 6. To a very small extent. The monitorial system is adopted in the house in so far as the responsibility of any work to be done is put upon ont boy, and the behaviour of boys in their dormitories during the night. It has worked hitherto very well. 7. The warder system has, on principle, never been adopted ; but, on the contrary, the boys are put upon their honour and greatly left to Brought forward, Milk, Eggs, and Vegetables, Coals and Firewood, Medicine, ..... Clothing, ..... Books, Stationery, and Printing, . Gas, ..... Water, ..... Insurance, ..... Poor's Kates, .... Church Sittings, .... Cab Hires, . .... Servants' Wages and Incidents, per Matron, Salaries, ..... Head Master, for Incidental Expenses, . Salary of Treasurer and Clerk, . Fee to Auditor, .... Sundry Accounts for Be pairs, Sundry Accounts for Benewal of Furnishings, Sundries, . . 4. Taxes recoverable, .... 5. National Bank of Scotland — Balance in Bank at 31st December 1871, 696 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. themselves. The effect of this is certainly more noise, but it is hoped, more moral health. All the arrangements are, however, tentative. 8. Each pupil has a separate bed. 18 on an average. 5 dormitories in all— 2 Dormitories 30ft. X 26ft. X 16ft. —15 boys in each - 832 cubic feet for each boy. *1 Dormitory 30ft. X 45ft. X 16ft.— 30 boys = 720 „ „ 1 Dormitory 24ft. X 29ft. X 16ft. —18 boys =614 fl Dormitory 24ft. X 12ft. X 16ft.— 10 boys = 556-8 9. They are allowed for the most part to find amusements for them- selves, but football in winter and cricket in summer are most liked. They form a club or clubs, and, by great saving, manage to keep themselves in implements. Matches with other schools are encouraged, and in all their practisings they are allowed to go to a public park without any super- vision. A half-holiday on Wednesday and Saturday is given, and full scope in the skating season is given to them to mix with all and suudry on the public ponds. An hour is fixed for their return. A flute band is a capital auxiliary ; also an annual excursion to some place of interest. 10. Baths once a week, with cold, shower, and daily washing in lava- tories. Hand lavatory for day work. No bed allowed to be made until four hours exposed to light and air. Night-shirts also exposed. The changes of linen, etc., are such as the sons of respectable tradesmen may expect. Flannels are worn from September 1 to May 31. Sanitary arrangements are good. 11. One death during the four and a half years of the Hospital's existence, and this was due to a constitutional ailment — hereditary con- sumption. 12. TWENTY-FOUR HOURS' TIME-TABLE. A.M. Summer, . . J6.45-7.30) P1 Winter, . . 7.15-7.30) riay> 7.30-7.45 Breakfast. 7.45-8.0 Chapel. 8.0-9.15 Play and Drill. Tues. and Thurs., 8.15-9 a.m. 9.15-9.30 Inspection of Clothes, etc. 9.30-12 (Juniors)) School, with ten minutes' interval 9.30-12.20 (Seniors) j at 11 a.m. P.M. 12.20-1.50 Dinner and Play. 1.50-4.0 School, with quarter hour at 3 P.M. for after- noon piece. 4.0-5.0 Play. 5 0 C () O ocal Music, Tuesday and Thursday. ' " ' ( Drawing, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. G. 0-7.0 Supper and Play. 7 0-8.0 Preparation of Lessons. 8.0-8.45§ Chapel and Bed. * This dormitory, by Head Master s suggestion, is to be divided into three, f The elder boys sleep here. X Knife and boot cleaning by relays of boys are done before broakfast. § Upper boys are allowed to read until 9.30 r.M. without any supervision. MORGAN HOSPITAL. WEEKLY DIETARY SCALE. 697 Day of Week. Breakfast. Dinuor. Afternoon Piece. Supper. Sunday, Porridge and Sweet Milk, 1£ gills. Rice and Milk, Bread and Sweet Milk. Occasionally an Egg. Roll or Hunch of Bread. Tea, Bread and Butter or Syrup to choice. Monday, Do. Mince, Potatoes, and Bread, 5 oz. Do. Coffee, in Whiter, Bread, 5 oz. Milk, 1| gills, in Summer, Bread, 5 oz. Tuesday, Do. Broth (Vegetable and Barley), Beef (\ lb. without Bone), Potatoes, and Bread of oz. Do. Do. Wednesday, Do. Stewed Hough,* Potatoes, and Bread, 5 oz. Do. Do. Thursday, Do. Pea-soup and Hough, Bread, 5 oz. No Potatoes. Do. Do. Friday, Do. Rice and Milk, Bread, 5 oz., and oweet Milk. Do. Do. Saturday, Do. Pea- soup and Hough, Bread, 5 oz. No Potatoes. Do. Do. * Fresh Fish substituted in summer. Note. — Boys are allowed to ask for a little more Bread if they wish it. This never occurs after the first three months' residence in the house. III. Instruction. 1. Tradesmen, mechanics, and the working-class generally. See scheme. 22 Mechanics. 16 Sailors. 7 Mill Foremen. 4 Clerks. 3 Tailors. 3 Masons. 3 Joiners. 3 Shipmasters. 3 Grocers. 2 Bakers. 2 Cabinetmakers. 2 Plumbers. 2 Shoemakers. 2 Saddlers. 2 Draughtsmen. 2 Railway Guards. 1 Blacksmith. 1 Compositor. 1 Fireman. 1 Painter. 1 Printer. 1 Sailmaker. 1 Railway Porter. 1 Watchmaker. 1 W atchman. 1 Turnkey. 1 Tollkeepcr, 1 Labourer. 698 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 2. Not as yet. This is contemplated in the scheme ; but unless assist- ing the gardener, nothing has been done yet. 3. 4. Scripture Knowledge. — Mark's Gospel, Acts of the Apostles, Exodus, Catechism, 81st question to the end, with proofs. English Reading. — M'Culloch's ' Course,' 150 pages ; prefixes, affixes, and roots to letter N. History. — ' Collier's British History,' from Henry VIII. to William I V. Geography. — 1 Anderson's Geography.' British Isles particularly ; the Four Divisions of the Globe generally. Grammar. — Currie's ' Practical Grammar;' Analysis of ' Gray's Elegy ; ' 'Ross,' same series. Simple Composition Exercise from Grammar. Dictation. — Currie's ' Spelling Book,' etc. Arithmetic. — Highest Section — Practice, Proportion, Fractions, Interest, Square and Cube Roots and Mensuration. Currie's 4 Practical Arithmetic' Lower Section — Practice, Proportion, and Interest. Four boys learn Latin (Academy Rudiments, Kemp's Introductory Exercises, 10 chap. Caesar). Euclid, 20 propositions, First Book. Mental Arith- metic, Calculation of Prices. 5. Reading the Bible, and practical application of its truths in a way suited to their capacities. Very often the Head Master on Sabbath afternoon gives the boys a short address. The day is broken up into half hours, and as much variety introduced as possible. SUNDAY TIME-TABLE. A.M. 7.0-7.45 Washing and Dressing. 8.0-8.15 Breakfast. 8.15-9.15 *Chapel, and Reading or Walking. 9.15-10.0 Preparation of Evening Lessons. Upper boys by them- selves, and younger boys with a Master. 10.0-10.30 Preparation for Church. 11-12.45 At Church. 12.45-2.0 Dinner and Recreation. 2.15-4.0 At Church. 4.0 Afternoon Piece. 4.30-5.0 An interesting Story. Last year, Head Master told some interesting facts out of The Land and the Book. 5.0-5.30 Reading and Recreation. 5.30-6.0 Hymn Singing in two parts. 6.0-7.0 Tea (Bread and Butter) and Recreation. 7.0-8.0 Sabbath School, under Masters. 8.0-8.45 *Chapel and Bed. 6. Eighteen average number. Fitness, not age. Yes. Class marks and examination values. 7. Yes. Head Master's class-room, 25ft. lOin. x 20ft. 7in. x 14ft. 6in. ; about 35 pupils. Assistant Master's class-room, 23ft. 6in. x 28ft. 8in. x 14ft. 6in. ; about 40 pupils. Junior Assistant's class-room and preparation room, 21ft. 9in. X 29ft. 9in. 14ft. 6in. ; 15 to 20 boys. Yes. About 200 volumes ; two daily newspapers ; Illustrated London News, and a number of magazines and periodicals suited to their age. 8. The Board of Governors. He teaches the two upper sections, and exercises a general superintendence over the whole Hospital. See scheme. During the pleasure of Governors. Scheme. He appoints them, subject to the approval of the Governors. 9. A month's notice or a month's salary. * To impart liveliness and stir up interest, the boys read as at Family Prayers. MORGAN HOSPITAL. 699 SALARIES AND EMOLUMENTS OF TEACHERS. Teachers. Salaries and Emoluments. David W. B. Mitchell, M.A. Edin., Head Master, . . • £240, Free House, Coal and Gas. Alex. H. Young, M.A., Aberdeen, Assistant Master, £40, with Board and Washing. Note — This is Mr. YouDg's first quarter. Mr. Geo. Bain, Drawing Master, . Three hours weekly. £12, 10s. Mr. Frank Sharp, Music Master, . Three Lessons — one an hour's length, and two half an hour. £10. Mr. M'Lear, Band Master, . Two hours weekly. £6, 10s. Sergeant Hendry, Drill Master^ . Two hours weekly. £5. 10. See scheme. 11. No. Two Governors visit every month, and an annual examina- tion in July. A copy of this could be sent if desired. 12. Having no entrance examination, a fair comparison can scarcely be made with our institution and other similar ones. Boys are sent in at nine years who do not know their letters. 13. The institution has only been opened since February 1868, so that, unless prizes from the £ Science and Art Department ' for drawing, we have nothing to show. 14. One boy left us in May 1872, to be apprenticed to a druggist. He is competent to pass the preliminary examination of the Pharmaceutical Society. The only other boy who has completed his time has been appointed Junior Assistant or pupil-teacher, is living in the house, and expects to enter the University in 1874. General. The Governors have under their consideration at present a scheme for helping the poorest of the boys during their apprenticeship. It is to be called 4 Apprentice Fund.' The propriety of allowing the boys during the last year of their stay to spend the evening and nights at home, is also being considered by the Governors. NOTE. The judgment of the House of Lords declares — ' That the testamentary writings left by the deceased John Morgan, and in the condescendence annexed to the summons mentioned, contain a valid legacy and bequest of so much of the personal estate of the said testator, John Morgan, as is necessary to found an Hospital in the town of Dundee to accommodate 100 boys : and it is further ordered that the Court of Session do make such interlocutors and orders and give such directions as shall be necessary for the purposes following ; that is to say, for framing a scheme for establishing, in the 700 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. town of Dundee, an Hospital to contain 100 boys, and lodging, maintaining, and educating them therein, in fulfilment of the testamentary bequest and intention of the said testator; and for inquiring into and ascertaining the amount of the estate of the said testator necessary for carrying into effect euch scheme, and for applying the same accordingly, and also for adjudicating upon the expenses incurred in the Court below : and it is also further ordered that the cause be and is hereby remitted back to the Court of Session in Scotland, to do and proceed further therein as shall be just and consistent with this declara- tion, and these directions, and this judgment.' Extract fkom Scheme. The Trustees shall be — * The Provost of Dundee ; the Sheriff of Forfarshire ; one of the Sheriff- Substitutes of Forfarshire, to be named by the Sheriff ; the Dean of Guild of Dundee ; and the Convener of the Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee ; all for the time being, as Trustees, for the establishment, endowment, and main- tenance in all time coming of an Hospital in Dundee, for the education, lodging, boarding, and clothing of 100 boys, the sons of tradesmen, mechanics, and persons of the working-class generally, whose parents stand in need of assistance to enable them to educate their families, or who are orphans in need of such assistance. Any three of the said Trustees shall be a quorum, and the Hospital shall be known and called by the name of The Morgan Hospital. ' The Governors of the Hospital shall be twenty in number, of whom the six following persons shall be Governors cx officio: — The Provost of Dundee; one of the Sheriff-Substitutes of Forfarshire, to be named by the Sheriff ; the Minister of the parish of Dundee; the Dean of Guild of Dundee; the Convener of the Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee ; the Deacon of the Fra- ternity of Maltmen of Dundee. And each of the following seven bodies shall elect two Governors, of whom one shall retire annually, but be eligible for re- election, viz. : — The Magistrates and Town Council of Dundee ; the Magistrates and Town Council of Forfar ; the Magistrates and Town Council of Arbroath ; the Magistrates and Town Council of Montrose ; the Presbytery of Dundee ; the Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee ; the Directors of the High School of Dundee. In the event of any of the said bodies at any time failing to make such election within one month of the time which shall be appointed for their doing so, the Governors shall elect in their place ; and in the event of the death or resignation of an elected Governor, the body by whom he was elected, or on their failure, the remaining Governors, shall be entitled to supply the vacancy. ' The number of boys to be admitted into the Hospital shall not exceed 100, and their admission shall take place at meetings of the Governors specially called for the purpose. But during the first year after the building is com- pleted and ready to be inhabited, not more than 40 boys shall be admitted ; and in like manner not more than 30 boys shall be admitted during each of the second and third years respectively, besides supplying any vacancies that may have occurred among those previously admitted. ' No boy shall be admitted into the Hospital until he shall have attained the age of seven years complete, nor after he shall have attained the age of nine years complete, and no boy shall be permitted to continue in the Hospital after he shall have attained the age of fourteen years complete. ' In order to the admission of any boy, it shall be necessary that it be es- tablished to the satisfaction of the Governors that either the father or mother of such boy is (or, if dead, was) an inhabitant of, and born and educated in one or other of the towns of Dundee, Forfar, Arbroath, or Montrose ; but the sons of persons, inhabitants of, and born and educated in Dundee shall have the preference. 1 The instruction to be afforded shall comprehend the following branches, besides any others which the Governors may from time to time introduce, viz. : — Religious Instruction ; English Language, Literature, and Composition ; History ; Geography ; Arithmetic ; Writing and Book-keeping ; Vocal Music. Such boys as discover superior talent shall also be instructed by the Head MORGAN HOSPITAL. 701 Master in one or more of tlie following branches, viz., Latin, Greek, Mathe- matics, Algebra ; and it shall also be competent for the Governors to direct that such boys should receive special instruction in any other branches, for which occasional teachers may be provided. ' Every boy beyond the age of nine years complete, shall, unless specially exempted by the Head Master, attend for as many hours during each week as the Governors shall direct, a class for instruction in one or other of the trades of a tailor, shoemaker, or carpenter, or such other branch of industrial employ- ment as the Governors shall direct ; and the Governors shall appoint suitable instructors in every such trade or employment, and shall remunerate them in such a manner as they shall think proper ; and it shall be competent to the Governors, on occasion of any boy leaving the Hospital, to permit such boy, as a reward for good conduct, to receive the whole or any part of the profits of his work during the preceding year. ' The boys shall attend divine service once at least every Sunday, in such place of public worship in connection with the Church of Scotland as the Governors shall appoint, and on every such occasion they shall be accompanied by one at least of the Masters. But if the parents or guardians of any boy shall object to his giving such attendance, it shall be competent for the Governors to make any arrangements that may seem to them proper and suitable, to enable such boy to attend divine service in any other place of worship. ' The Governors shall elect and appoint a Head Master, whose duty it shall be to exercise, under their directions, a general superintendence over all the inmates of the Hospital, and himself to instruct the more advanced boys. He shall every day conduct, or, in his necessary absence, cause one of the Assistant Masters to conduct, morning and evening worship in the chapel, and shall, subject to the approval of the Governors, assign to each of the Assistant Masters the share which such Master shall take, both in the daily instruction of the boys, and in superintending them during the preparation of their lessons, and shall perform such other duties appertaining to his office as the Governors may direct. Such Head Master shall receive an annual salary of not less than £200, besides the use of a free house attached to the Hospital, with coal, gas, and water.' 702 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. ROBERT GORDON'S HOSPITAL IN ABERDEEN. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. A.D. 1732. Robert Gordon, merchant in Aberdeen. 2. 4 For entertaining and educating indigent male children and male grandchildren of decayed merchants and brethren of guild of the burgh of Aberdeen, of the name of Gordon, in the first place, and of the name of Menzies, in the second place (the nearest relations of the mortifier of the said names of Gordon and Menzies being always preferred to any others), and the male children of any of the relations of the mortifier that are of any other name, in the third place, are to be preferred to others ; and then the male children or male grandchildren of any other merchants and brethren of guild of the said burgh.' In a subsequent part of the deed, the classes of persons whose sons are eligible are stated somewhat more fully. Printed copy of General Regulations, with deeds and Charter, herewith sent. By a resolution of -the President and Governors, based on opinion of counsel, and passed of date 24th July 1 872, they enlarged 4 the area of selection to all classes of the community within the municipal boundary of Aberdeen (excluding children of those receiving parochial relief), the boys to be elected being lawful sons, born in Aberdeen, of persons who are residenters within the municipal burgh of Aberdeen, who are indigent and not able to maintain themselves, and also the sons of persons deceased who were residenters and whose orphans have continued to reside within said burgh, who are indigent, having respect in each case to the most necessitous : and that the boys shall be seen and examined by a committee of the Governors as to their habits and aptitude for learning, and, in judging of the eligibility of children for election, the Governors shall be entitled to decline electing any child whose admission would, in their opinion, be prejudicial to the interests of the other children, preference being given, ceteris paribus, to children of decayed burgesses of guild and burgesses of trade, and to boys of the names of Gordon and Menzies in each class.' Printed copies of the Deed of Mortification and Statutes may be had on applica- tion to the Clerk, 71 King Street, Aberdeen. 3. The capital sum left by the Founder was £10,000 sterling. The funds are now invested in lands, principally in Aberdeenshire, feu- duties, house property in Aberdeen, and the Hospital buildings. The net revenue for the year ending 31st October 1872, was £5611, Is. 11 Jd. See printed abstract of accounts. 4. The trust was erected into a body corporate under Royal Charters, dated loth June 1772 and 16th May 1792. The trustees are 'the Provost, Bailies, and the remanent members of the Town Council of the burgh of Aberdeen, and the four Ministers of the Gospel in the said ROBERT GORDON'S HOSPITAL. 703 burgh of Aberdeen, commonly called the Town's four Ministers of the Old and New Churches.' 5. No. 6. The President and Governors hold their appointments ex officiis, as magistrates, town councillors, and ministers, as aforesaid. 7. The Governors have full control over the financial affairs of the Hospital, the appointment and dismissal of all the officials connected with it, the discipline and arrangements of the house, and the diet and clothing and course of instruction given to the inmates. 8. It is. See answer to question 2. 9. Boys, 176. Of whom 70 are fatherless; of whom 106, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. The full complement is fixed at 180. Of the 176 boys in the Hospital, 40 are elected by the Collyhill Trustees. 10. None. 11. At last election, on 3d October 1872, there were 12 vacancies. These were filled up, and at same time 12 additional boys were elected, in terms of resolution of date 27th August 1872, making 24 in all elected on 3d October. The applications were 34 in number. 12. (1) Sons or grandsons of burgesses of guild ; (2) sons or grand- sons of burgesses of trade ; (3) sons of residenters within the municipal burgh of Aberdeen admitted in terms of resolution of 24th July 1872. See answer to question 2. In the last class one of the name of Gordon was admitted. 13. Foundationers enter between the ages of 9 and 11, and leave at 15, none remaining in the Hospital more than five years except boys going to College. 14. See answer to question 2. Applicants are examined in reading and writing by the Head Master before admission. 15. Yes; in the Governors. 16. The Governors have been in the practice of granting allowances, amounting to £10 in all, to each boy after he leaves the Hospital, but it has been resolved to abolish these in future, except in certain cases. The resolution of date 19th August 1872 is as follows : 'That all payments to boys, either as apprentice fees or as allowances at the end of their apprenticeship, shall be discontinued, except to boys who have been elected to the Hospital previous to this date, to whom the Governors are to be empowered to pay a sum not exceeding £5 each. That in the case of boys elected after this date the Governors reserve power to grant to such as are necessitous, or whose fathers are dead, a sum not exceeding £5 to each, if required, for the purchase of tools, or otherwise in fitting them out on their entering as apprentices.' Each boy on leaving gets a new suit of clothes. 17. None. 18. None. 20. State ok Debt of Robert Gordon's Hospital, for the Year ending 31st October 1872. Due by the Hospital — On Loan ...... £5,550 0 0 Bequest . . . . . 200 0 0 £5,750 o 0 Carry forward, . . . . £5,750 0 0 704 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, . . . £5,750 0 0 Due to the Hospital — Arrears of Rent on Findon .... £2019 9 Balance on Accouut with North of Scotland Bank . 112 19 0 133 18 9 Balance due by the Hospital at 31st October 1872 . £5,616 1 3 The accuracy of which is proved as under: — Balance due by the Hospital at 1st November 1871, per last year's State . . £5,142 12 5 Add — Deposit by Wm. Douglas in security for Milk Contract . . . . . 10 0 0 Add — Sums expended for Permanent Improvements on Dumbreck and Orchardtown . £72 2 6£ Towie .... 1,649 4 10 Deduct— Excess of Income over Expenditure . . 1,257 £5,152 12 5 •1,721 7 4J £6,873 19 9* 18 6j 5.616 1 8 Abstract of the Income and Expenditure of Robert Gordon's Hospital, Aberdeen, for Year ending 31st October 1872. Revenue. . Rents of Dumbreck and Orchardtown for Crop 1871, including Interest on Advances to Tenants, etc. . . £2.343 1 2 Miscellaneous Receipts . . 14 16 5 £2,357 i; Deduct — Public Burdens .... £244 1 9£ Commutation of Multures . . 16 18 2 Feu-Duties . . . . 0 19 8 Casual Charges . . . . 88 12 10 Charges of Management . . 51 15 4 402 7 II. Rents of Towie for Crop 1871, includ- ing Interest on Advances to Tenants, etc £2,889 9 Miscellaneous Receipts . . 141 3 10 £1,955 9 9£ £3,030 13 5 Deduct — Public Burdens .... £474 3 H Feu-Duties . . . . 19 6" Casual Charges .... 127 2 4^ Charges of Management . . 95 3 10 697 18 10 III. Rents and Feu-Duties, etc., of Findon . . £153 1 6 Deduct — Public Burdens and Feu-Duty . £9 8 5f Incidental Expenses . . . 106 10 7 Charges of Management . . 15 8 11 131 7 1H IV. Rents and Feu-Duties of Heritage in Aberdeen . £:>55 14 9 Deduct — Public Burdens and Feu-Duties . £52 2 3| Incidental Expenses . . , 8 5 5 Charges of Management . . 13 1 9 73 9 5J 2,332 14 21 13 a 182 5 3£ Carry forward, . . £4,492 3 2* * This sum was expended on Farm Steadings and on Improvements, for which an adequate return is obtained in the shape either of increased rent or interest. ROBERT GORDON'S HOSPITAL. 705 Brought forward, Income-Tax recovered from Government .... Casual Receipts by Treasurer ...... Board, etc., from Collyhill Trustees, for 40 Boys admitted into the Hospital under that Trust, at £20, 10s. 9£d. each per annum £4,492 S 2* 10 3 2 35 4 11 1,073 10 8 £5,611 1 11£ Expenditure. 30 Bolls of Oatmeal from the Hospital Es- tate of Udny, at Fiars' price of 10s. lid per Boll .... Housekeeping Clothing .... Fire and Light Stationery .... Repairs to Hospital . Repairs to and additional Furniture Miscellaneous Disbursements Apprentice Fees Allowances to Boys after apprenticeship Allowances to Boys going abroad . £25 7 0 1,046 18 G 777 7 10 100 18 6 73 18 10 203 0 0 32 1 529 12 144 10 100 0 22 10 £3,056 5 9 Salaries. Rev. W. D. Strahan, Master of the Hospital Mr. Gerard, Teacher Mr. Scott, do. Mr. Dale, do. Mr. Pope, Writing and Drawing Master Mr. Jazdowski, French & Drawing Master Mr. Camille des Clayes, French Master Mr. Sandison, Music Master William Balfour, Dancing Master . William Coombs, Drill Sergeant Mr. Stronach, Clerk, including allowance for Stationery Mr. Rush, Treasurer Dr. Fiddes, Physician David Gray, House Steward Miss Sutherland, Housekeeper Ann Gray, Gatekeeper Charles Cockerill, Hair Cutter Alexander Watson, Officer . Mr. Stuart's Retiring Allowance Mr. Colston's do. £240 0 0 160 0 0 160 0 0 182 10 0 78 6 8 13 15 0 40 10 0 25 0 0 20 0 0 20 0 0 44 10 0 70 0 0 50 0 0 70 0 0 50 0 0 18 0 0 10 10 0 6 6 0 25 0 0 12 10 0 1,296 17 8 N.B.— The Factor's Salary of £115, with £6 for Stationery, is ap- portioned on the different Heritages. Excess of Income over Expenditure . . . . £4,353 3 5 1,257 18 £5,611 1 11| Comparative View of the Income and Expenditure for the last Six Years. Income. 1866-67. 1867-08. 1868-69. 1869-70. 1870-71. 1871-72. £4.903 18 9|... £4,801 12 3f...£4,812 2 7...£5,150 10 2.. .£5,300 18 6h... £5,611 1 11 J Expenditure. 1866-67. 1867-68. 1868-69. 1869-70. 1870-71. 1871-72. £4,567 16 3£„. £4,415 2 1... £4,532 8 10.. .£4,404 9 8,„£4,401 9 8.. .£4,353 3 5 2 Y 706 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Valuation of the Property belonging to Robert Gordon's Hospital, at 31st October 1872. I. Eents of Dumbreck and Orehardtown, valued at 30 years' purchase, after deducting Public Burdens and Feu-duties, and exclusive of Drainage Interest ....... £65,342 1 3 II. Rents of Towie, valued at do. do. do. . 78,973 8 9 Plantations on Towie, valued at . . . . 500 0 0 III. Eents of Findon, valued at 30 years' purchase, after deducting Public Burdens .... £1,427 11 3 Feu-duties of do., valued at 22^ years' purchase . 1,469 12 6 Mossmails of do., valued at 15~y eai 's' purchase . 461 5 0 IV. Rents of Heritage in Aberdeen, valued at 12 years' purchase ...... £1,579 16 0 Feu-duties of do., valued at 22J years' purchase . 2,791 19 4 £4,374 15 4 Deduct Public Burdens, valued at 22| years' purchase ..... 1,172 11 7 3,358 8 9 3,199 3 9 V. Value of Hospital Buildings and Furniture, as ascertained by the late Messrs. John Smith and Archibald Simpson, Architects, in 1838 18,660 0 0 VI. Balance on account with North of Scotland Bank . . . 112 19 0 VII. Arrears of Rent 20 19 9 £170,167 1 3 Deduct — I. Sums Borrowed ..... £5,550 0 0 II. Bailie Williamson's Bequest . . . 200 0 0 5,750 0 0 £164,417 1 3 Note. — The Sum paid to the Governors by the Collyhill Trustees, in 1838, as their proportion of the value of the Hospital Buildings, etc., applicable to the admission of 26 boys, was . . £2,922 13 0 And the sum paid by them in 1864, applicable to the ad- mission of 14 additional boys, was . . 1,224 0 0 Included in the above sum of £18,660 . . . £4,146 13 4 The accounts are audited yearly by the Hospital Auditor, Mr. William Milne, C.A. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 176. 2. There are no Foundationers who do not reside in the Hospital buildings. 3. There is a uniform dress, consisting of dark blue jackets and vests, with brass buttons bearing the crest and initials of the Hospital ; dark grey trousers, and Glengarry bonnets. 4. No visitors are received by the pupils except in cases of sickness. The pupils have liberty to leave the Hospital on Wednesdays and Satur- days from 1 to 8 o'clock p.m. The holidays are from the last Friday in June to the first Monday in August, and a week at Christmas. 5. Punishments are inflicted in school by each Master in his own class as he finds necessary. Punishments for offences out of school and gross faults are inflicted by the Head Master. These are corporal punishments, restriction of play time, etc. For more serious offences, punishment by expulsion or otherwise is inflicted by the Governors. A record of punish- ments is kept by the House Steward. 6. Censors are appointed by the Head Master from the highest class, ROBERT GORDON'S HOSPITAL. 707 one to every ten boys. These, in rotation, take the duty of public censor for a week, having a geueral supervision of the boys in the house. 7. The censors have a supervision by day in the dining-room and lavatories, and by night in the dormitories, and are responsible to the Head Master. The House Steward has general supervision by day and by night. 8. The dormitories vary in size from 58 x 28 x 11 feet to 15 x 12 x 9 feet. The cubical space allowed for each pupil ranges from 500 to 600 feet. The largest dormitory contains 36 pupils, and the smallest 3. Each pupil has a separate bed. 9. The ordinary amusements of boys — cricket, football, etc. — are encouraged. The size of the part of the Hospital grounds used as a playground is about 5000 square yards ; but the pupils are taken to the Links for those amusements where more space is required. 10. The lavatories are used three or four times a day, and the pupils bathe in a swimming pond beside the Hospital once a week. The sanitary arrangements are excellent. 11. During the last ten years, of about 400 boys who have been admitted, 5 have died. TWENTY-FOUR HOURS' TIME-TABLE. Summer, . Winter, . Summer, . Winter, . Summer, . A.M. '-7 45} ^ asmn S an( * Dressing. 6 7 illl] Worshi p 7-8 Play. 8-9 9-12 P.M. 12-1 1- 2 2- 4 4-5 5-5.30 5.30-7.30 7.30-8.15 8.15-9 Breakfast, Play — two Sections Writing (see Instruc- tion Time-Table). School. French, Drill, and Band-music, and Play. Dinner and Play. School. Preparation of Lessons and Play. Afternoon Piece. Drawing (Tuesday and Friday), Singing (Monday and Thursday), and Play. Supper and Play. Worship and Bed. SUNDAY TIME-TABLE. 7-7.45 Washing and Dressing. 7.45-8 Worship. 8-10.30 Preparing Lessons, Reading, and Walking in front Garden (superintended). 11-1 In Church. 2.15-4 In Church. 6-7.30 Religious Instruction under Master and Teachers. 8.15-9 Worship and Bed. Meals as on other days. 708 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. INSTRUCTION TIME-TABLE. Hours. 1st Section (lowest). 2d Section. 3d Section. 4th Section. 8.15-9 Play. Play. Writing (Mr. Pope). Writing (Mr. Pope). 9-11 Religious In- struction, Eng- lish, Dictation, and Grammar (Mr. Dale). Religious In- struction, Eng- lish, English Grammar, Dic- tation, & Latin (Mr. Scott). Religious In- struction and Arithmetic(Mr. Gerard). English, English Compn., His- tory, & Latin (Mr. Ogilvie). 11-12 Geography and Arithmetic(Mr. Dale). Geography and Arithmetic (Mr. Scott). English, English Compn., His- tory, & Latin (Mr. Ogilvie). Arithmetic and Mathematics (Mr. Gerard). 12-1 Play. Play. Play. French (Mons. Des Clayes). 1-2 Dinner and Play. Dinner and Play. Dinner and Play. Dinner and Play. 2-3 Arithmetic (Mr. Dale), Writing (Mr. Pope). Arithmetic (Mr. Scott), Writing (Mr. Pope). Preparing Les- sons. Arithmetic and Natural Philo- sophy (Mr. Gerard). 3-4 Arithmetic (Mr. Dale), Writing (Mr. Pope). Arithmetic (Mr. Scott), Writing (Mr. Pope). 3-3.30, Third Section imited with Fourth, Physical Geography un- der Mr. Gerard. 3.30-4, Not occupied. 4-5 Play. Play. Preparing Lessons under Mr. Dale. From 1st November to 30th April, the boys are instructed in Dancing on Wednesdays and Saturdays from 12 to 1 o'clock. Band-music and Drill three times a week during both summer and winter, half an hour each lesson. From 5.30 to 6.30, on Thursdays during winter, Elementary Chemistry. The afternoons of Wednesdays and Saturdays are half -holidays ; the forenoon of the latter is devoted to Religious Instruction. Dietary as follows : — Breakfast. h Porridge, with sweet milk. Dinner. 5 o'clock Piece. Sunday . . . Cold beef, and bread or potatoes. Bread and butter and tea. Monday . . . Broth and beef, and bread or potatoes. Bread and milk. Tuesday . . . Vegetable soup, and bread or potatoes. Do. Wednesday . . Milk, rice, and bread. Do. Thursday . . Skink soup, and bread or potatoes. Do. Friday . . . Stoved potatoes and bread. Do. Saturday . . Broth and bread. Do. Supper. Porridge and sweet milk. ROBERT GORDON'S HOSPITAL. 709 III. Instruction. 1. From the classes of tradesmen, mechanics, labourers, decayed merchants, etc., chiefly sons and grandsons of burgesses of guild and of trade. See paper herewith No. V.* 2. During their last six months in the Hospital, the boys who have a view to any particular line of life have their attention specially directed to subjects connected with it. 3. See printed time-table (p. 708). No industrial training is given beyond what is stated in the answer to No. 2 above. 4. For school purposes, the boys are divided into four sections, the fourth being the highest, and comprising somewhat less than the fourth part of the whole number. The fourth section is taught chiefly by the Head Master and the Teacher of Mathematics : by the former English and Latin, by the latter mathematics and arithmetic. At the last Government inspection, in April 1872, in the Mathematical School ten boys professed Books L, II., III., IV., and 20 propositions of Book YI. of Euclid ; seven boys, Books I., II., III. ; and three boys, Book I. The whole section professed the common rules of arithmetic; Chambers's Natural Philosophy, to end of mechanical powers ; Physical Geography, 54 pages. Six boys professed logarithmic computation, plane trigono- metry (old method), mensuration of surfaces and solids. Four boys, elements of algebra. The Head Master (now retired) having been in delicate health for some time previous to the late examination, the highest class was examined only in Latin. Text Books, etc. Mathematics, etc., etc. — Chambers's Educational Course, Chambers's Euclid, Chambers's Elementary Physical Geography, Chambers's Arithmetic, Chambers's Natural Philosophy, Trotter's Ingram. Latin. — Cornelius Nepos, Melville's Lessons, Rudiments (Hunter's). French (taught by Mons. Camilla des Clayes). — Gasc's First and Second Grammars, Gasc's Histoires Amusantes, Gasc's Prosateurs Contemporains, Gasc's Material for French Prose Composition, Hachette's Readers. Chemistry {taught by Mr. Dale). — Roscoe's Science Primer. Drawing and Writing are taught by Mr. Pope, Vocal Music by Mr. Sandison, Instrumental Music by Sergeant Coombs, and Dancing and Deportment by Mr. Balfour. 5. The religious instruction, conducted by the Master and Teachers, consists of reading the Scriptures daily, both in the public school and class-rooms, and in the hearing and explanation of the Shorter Catechism. (Sunday Time-table, see p. 707). 6. The numbers in a class-room vary in the different schools, — a section being generally divided into two classes, sometimes more, and for some subjects only one class. Prizes are given liberally, and usually by the summing up of registers kept for several months previous to each half- yearly examination, and promotion from class to class is determined in the same way. 7. The class-rooms are suitable. Their size is as follows: — (1) 30 x 21 x U\ feet; (2) 28 x 18£ x 14J feet; (3) 28 x 22 x 14£ feet; (4) 28 x 18 x 14J feet. The average number of boys in each is from 50 to 60. There is a library. 8. The President and Governors appoint the Head Master, who con- ducts certain classes, and has a general superintendence over the teachers and the whole establishment. I lis tenure of office is from year to year. * This paper gives the classification of the buys as abovo in detail. 710 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 9. See p. 705. No portion is derived from fees. The tenure of office is from year to year. 10. By the Deed of the Founder, the Head Master, after ten years' service, is entitled to maintenance in the house, for which a pension is now substituted, and it has been the practice to allow pensions to the other teachers who have retired after long service. 11. See reports of Government inspector. 12. Two boys have, with few exceptions, been sent yearly to the natural philosophy and mathematical classes in the University of Aber- deen (their fees being paid from the Hospital funds). Of those who have attended College, all (with one exception) have passed the class examina- tions, several have been in the ' order of merit,' one has taken the first prize in the senior mathematics, with a prize also in natural philosophy, and one the second prize in each of these classes, while several have taken lower prizes. Viewing this in the light of comparison with other institu- tions, it has to be borne in mind that pupils sent from this Hospital are at least on an average three years younger than their College class-fellows. One of the pupils above referred to, after leaving the Hospital, attended the Grammar School for two years, gained a bursary, and went regularly through the College curriculum with the view of preparing for the Indian Civil Service. He succeeded at his first trial, and is now on his way to Bengal. It must be observed that until within the last year Latin held but a subordinate place in the course of Hospital studies. An arrange- ment has now been made for devoting more attention to it ; but the new system has not been long enough in operation to warrant an opinion on its results. Owing to the weakness of the classical department, it would not be fair to look for successful pupils in the lists of the learned pro- fessions, as none could enter College for a full curriculum without attending the Grammar School or some other preparatory school for a considerable time after leaving the Hospital, and this would imply an expense of time and money which few of the class could afford. Yet, in spite of all difficulties, many have wrought themselves into high positions, — one at the English bar, and others as architects, shipowners, merchants, bankers, accountants, actuaries, engineers, and shipmasters in all parts of the world, and several have been magistrates and members of the Town Council of Aberdeen. 13. 14. . General. The Governors have had under consideration a plan for allowing boys to live out of the house, and receive instruction from its funds ; but, on taking the opinion of counsel, they have been advised to wait for a general Act of Parliament on the subject. BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITAL, ABERDEEN. 711 THE BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITALS OF ABERDEEN, KING STREET ROAD, ABERDEEN. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 30th May 1739. Minute and Act of Town Council of Aberdeen. 2. The purpose was to establish and erect an Infirmary and Work- house in thjs burgh of Aberdeen. These objects were shortly afterwards separated. The institution is now conducted under 4 The Aberdeen Boys' and Girls' Hospitals Act, 1852.' (Private Act, 15 & 16 Vict, c. 21.) A copy of the Act is filed herewith. 3. The capital arises from successive legacies and donations, and amounts to £51,898, Is. 8d., invested in lands and feu-duties of the build- ings of the institution. Reference is made to the abstract of accounts. 4. The Trustees consist of Life Managers, and representatives of the Town Council, Kirk Session, and Parochial Board of St. Nicholas, Aber- deen, appointed yearly, in terms of the Act. The present Managers are: — Life Managers — James Edmond, Charles Winchester, Robert Smith, James Brebner, Patrick Davidson, and Dr. Henderson. Town Council — Lord Provost, William Bruce, Henry Brechin, Charles Smith, and William Eindlay. Kirk Session — Rev. Henry Cowan, Rev. G. F. J. Philip, David Reid, and Alexander Walker. Parochial Board — John Sangster, George Jamieson, William Ironside, and John Ogilvie. 5. No. 6. By the Town Council, the Kirk Session, and Parochial Board. 7. By means of a House Committee and Education Committee, and weekly visitation. 8. The institution is conducted in strict accordance with the terms of the Act of Parliament. 9. Boys, 50; girls, 50; of whom 81 are fatherless; and 19, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. None. 11. Boys — Seven vacancies and 16 applications. Girls — Two vacan- cies and six applications. 12. All of these were poor children belonging to the parish of St. Nicholas, in terms of section 24 of the Act. 13. Admitted at from seven to ten. Boys leave at fourteen. Girls may be retained longer, till situations obtained. 14. The condition is ' poor children of the parish of St. Nicholas, the test of belonging to the parish being the same as is required to establish a settlement under the Poor Law.' * No other condition. There is no entrance examination except by the physician, to ascertain that there is no disease or infirmity. * Sec. 24 of the Act of Incorporation. 712 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 15. There is. Vested in the Trustees. 16. The children, on leaving, receive an outfit of clothes, and a small gratuity yearly for three and five years; conditional on a favourable report from their employers. 17. None. 18. None. 19. There are none. 20. The account for the year 1871 is herewith filed. The accounts are audited yearly by Messrs. Marquis and Hall, C.A., Aberdeen, and thereafter submitted to the Managers at their annual meeting in January. Expenditure and Revenue Account for Year ending 30th December 1871. expenditure. I. Hospital Expenses :— 1. House Expenditure, £874 12 5 2. Clothing, 319 8 6 3. Salaries, viz. : — Secretary and Treasurer, . . . £80 0 0 Matron (Boys), exclusive of Board, for half-year to Whitsunday, 15 0 0 Matron (Boys and Girls), do., for year, 36 5 0 Master (Boys and Girls), exclusive of Board, for year (including donation to Mr. Eennie), . . . . 105 9 8 Assistant Teacher (do.), salary for year, do., 24 0 0 Warden, 7 months' salary, do., . 21 18 2 Teacher of Singing, half-year's salary, and gratuity of £5, 5s., . . 10 10 0 Medical Officer, . . . . 20 0 0 Auditor, . . . . . . 5 5 0 318 7 10 4. Apprentices (exclusive of £16 paid Boys for Mann's Mortification), 39 15 0 £1,552 3 9 Note. — Hitherto the expenditure for the Boys and Girls was shown separately ; but the Establishments being now united, that can no longer be done. II. Sundries: — 1. Feu-duties, King Street Road — Society of Advocates, Aberdeen, Year's Feu-duty, £34 8 9 Town of Aberdeen, do., . . . 20 0 0 £54 8 9 Less— Rent of Ground, Season 1871-72, 7 16 0 2. Insurances — Premium of Insurance of £5500 over New Buildings, . . . . £4 10 0 Less — Sum returned on old Policies cancelled, 1 11 10 46 12 9 2 18 2 3. Expenses of Flitting, Cleaning House, Trenching Lawn, etc., 16 0 5 Carry forward, . £1,617 15 1 BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITAL, ABERDEEN. 713 Drought forward, . . £1,617 15 1 HI. Interests:— Interest on Mann's Mortification, . £16 0 0 Do. on Building Account, No. II., with North of Scotland Bank, . 29 7 1 £45 7 1 Less—Do. Current Account, No. I., . 7 5 8 38 1 5 £1,655 16 6 Balance at Credit of this Account, 1,056 6 11| Being — 1st, Balance from 1870, as credited per contra, £954 7 1£ 2d, Excess of Revenue over Expenditure added to Stock in Stock Account below, 101 18 10 £1,056 5 11| £2,712 2 5| Note. — The Expenditure this year on Capital Account is shown below, viz. : — 1. Improvements on Elrick and Annochie, . . . £42 7 3 2. New Hospital Buildings, 2,089 11 5 3. Furniture for do., 422 18 4 Sum, £2,554 17 0 Balance at Credit of Revenue Account, 31st Dec. 1870, per last account, £954 7 1£ REVENUE FOR YEAR 1870. I. Heritable Properties : — Elrick and Annochie— Free Rental, Crop 1870, . . £1,386 7 2 House Property, Gallowgate, etc. — Half-year's Rent of Two Floors, . £12 15 0 Less — Paid for sundry Repairs, Taxes, etc., 4 5 2 8 9 10 Feu-duties— Innes Street Subjects, . . £89 17 10 Holburn Street, . . 19 6 9 West North Street, . . 3 0 0 Gaelic Lane, . , 14 0 0 £126 4 7 Less — Paid Dr. Bell's Trustees, Gaelic Lane Feu-duties, . . . 14 0 0 112 4 7 £1,507 1 7 II. Mortifications: — Elrick — Share of Feu-duty, per Magis- trates and Town Council, . . . £122 19 6 Sundries— per do. (Liddell, Johnstone, and Kemp Mortifications), . 87 14 3 Chalmers, 40 0 0 250 13 9 1,757 15 4 £2,712 2 5$ 714 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Stock Account or Balance Sheet, at 30th December 1871. assets. I. Heritable Properties : — Estates of Elrick and Annochie, per last Account, £35,863 19 11 Expended in Improvements this year, 42 7 3 £35,906 7 2 Hospital Buildings, and House Pro- perty in Upperkirkgate and Gal- lowgate, per last Account, . . £3,700 0 0 To Purchase Price of said Property sold, . . . £3,500 0 0 Less— Expenses of Sale, etc., . . . 90 19 11 3,409 0 1 Balance, being deterioration in value, written off, £290 19 11 New Hospital Buildings, King Street — Outlay, as per last Account, . . £5,362 2 5 Sums paid this year to account, . . 2,089 11 5 7,451 13 10 Feu-duties as in last Account, 2,265 0 0 £45,623 1 0 II. Mortifications : — Magistrates and Town Council, £4,980 0 0 Chalmers, 1,000 0 0 5,980 0 0 III. Furniture:— Furniture, as in last Account, . . £358 8 10 Deduct — Price of Old Furniture sold, . 12 11 4 £345 17 6 Expended on Furnishings for New Hospital, 422 18 4 £768 15 10 Less — Depreciation in Value of Old Furniture, . 149 1 2 Note. — Furniture at this date, per In- ventory and Valuation by Mr. Masson, Auctioneer, . . ' . £671 9 8 Less — School and Dining Room Fur- niture, included in his Valuation, not yet paid, 51 15 0 619 14 8 Amount as above, . . £619 14 8 IV. Sundries: — Property Tax, supposed recoverable, per last year's Account, . . £9 15 0 Additional this year, .... 2 11 0 £12 6 0 The late Mr. Joseph Booth, Treasurer and Secretary, 91 18 2 North of Scotland Bank — in Bank on Current Account, No II. Building ing Fund, £141 10 1 Less — Current Account overdrawn, No. I., 54 16 11 86 13 2 Carry forward, .... £190 17 4 £52,222 15 8 BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITAL. 715 Brought forward, £190 17 4 £52,222 15 8 Balance due by Factor on his Factory Account, 67 0 1 Balance due by Treasurer, per Cash Book, 3 4 0 70 4 1 261 1 5 £52,483 17 1 LIABILITIES, AND NET STOCK. I. Liabilities : — Mann's Mortification, £585 15 5 II. Net Stock:— Amount of net stock at this date, 51,898 1 8 Note— Net Stock at 31st December 1871, as per last Account, including £954, 7s. IJd. as the Balance then at the Credit of Revenue Account, . . .£52,236 3 11 Add Excess of Income over Expenditure this year, per Revenue Account above, ... . 101 18 10 Less — Deterioration in value of House Property in Upperkirkgate and Gal- lowgate, written off, ... £290 19 11 And deterioration in value of Furniture, written off as per contra^ . . . 149 1 2 440 1 1 Net Stock, £51,898 1 8 Net Stock, as per last year's Account, . . . 52,236 3 11 £440 1 1 Less — Excess of Income over Expendi- ture this year, as above, . . . 101 18 10 Decrease, £338 2 3 Being, 1st, Difference between sum (£3700) at which the old Hospital Building and House Property stood in last year's Stock Account, and net sum (£3409, 0s. Id.) realized for same when sold (see contra), . . . £290 19 11 2d, Deterioration in value of Old Fur- niture, valued on being removed to New Buildings (see contra), . . 149 1 2 338 2 3 £52,483 17 1 Aberdeen, 24th January 1872.— The above Abstract of the Revenue and Expenditure of the Boys' and Girls' Hospitals for the year ending 30th December 1871 has been made up from the Books of the Institution, which have been compared with the vouchers, and are hereby certified as correctly stated and vouched. The Stock Account or Balance Sheet shows the Assets and Liabilities and the Estimated Net Stock, which at said date amounts to £51,898, Is. 8d. Geo. Marquis, C.A., Auditor. 716 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 50 ; girls, 50. 2. There are none of this class. 3. Yes. 4. They are allowed to visit their friends on the afternoons of Wed- nesdays and Saturdays, and may be sent messages at other times on the business of the institution. From four to six weeks' holidays are given at midsummer. No visitors are allowed except by permission of the Trustees. 5. Corporal chastisement ; confinement to the Hospital ; expulsion. The Master determines the punishment in the first instance. Grave offences are reported to the Trustees, and dealt with by them. Punish- ments are entered in the log book of the school. 6. No. 7. The Master, Matron, Assistant Teacher, and Warden are charged with this duty. 8. There are ten dormitories. About 500 cubic feet are allowed for each pupil. Each has a separate bed. 9. Besides the usual amusements of cricket, foot-ball, marbles, etc., the children have chess, drafts, dominoes, and quartettes. There is also a swing in each playground and a covered shed. Yes. Boys, 48 yards by 28 yards ; girls, 48 yards by 28 yards. 10. The children have an entire change every week of underclothing (the boys two shirts per week). A hot and cold bath every Saturday, and sea-bathing during summer. There are eight lavatories and bath- rooms, with a constant supply of hot and cold water. The sanitary arrangements are good. 11. Under 1 per cent. 12. A time-table for 24 hours and a scale of dietary are filed here- with, and follows : Time-Table for Twenty-Four Hours, Boys' and Girls' Hospitals, 1872. Hour. 6 a.m. Private prayer in dormitories, Master superintending. 6.15-8 a.m. House -cleaning, etc. 8 a.m. Breakfast, worship, house-cleaning finished. 9.30 a.m. -12.30 p.m. School work (see time-table). 1 p.m. Dinner. 1.30-2.30 p.m. Play. 2.30-5.30 p.m. School work (see time-table). Rolls at 4 p.m. 5.30-6 p.m. Play. 6 p.m. Supper. 6.20-7 p.m. Play. 7-8.15 p.m. Preparation of lessons and worship. 8.15-9.30 p.m. Brushing boots by sections ; games. 9.30 P.M. Private prayer in dormitories. 9.30 P.M.-6 a.m. In bed. Visited once during the night. BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITAL, ABERDEEN. 717 a> - I O m . 03 rj .ti'd to 03 03 g 2 § § 3 ° * t> ^ 9 &a W f-C — 1 Ph O Ph CO j &Gp3 )rridge Milk. ige ilk. >rridge Milk. 03 J teg W GO M ^£ Eh H T3 |* O Ph Ph o Ph o Ph Ph o PL, Ph Ph Days. Sunday. «4 Q o Tuesday. "Wednesday. Thursday. a M Em Saturday. 718 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. III. Instruction. 1. Seamen . Combmakers Labourers Blacksmiths Masons Coachmen Weavers Carters House Painters Stokers House Carpenters Railway Porters Policemen Shoemakers Slater Tinsmith Iron Moulder Brass Finisher Cooper Flax Dressers Brushmaker Baker Dyer Sailmaker Engine-fitter Butcher Soldiers Fish Dealer Boiler Maker Not ascertained Total 100 2. No ; but some of the older boys work upon the grounds, under the superintendence of the Warden. They also make their own beds, sweep their bedrooms and passages, etc., under the superintendence of servants. The girls do all the scouring, assist in the washing and cooking, and, under the Assistant Teacher, learn sewing, knitting, darning, and cutting. 3. A school time-table is filed herewith, and follows : BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITAL, ABERDEEN. 719 Natural Philosophy. Mon. & Th. Music, Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Writing or Object. Arithmetic, 30 min. H3 bO § "S3 iO 3 Dictation, 15 min. Reading, 30 min. Reading, 15 min. Preparation 30 min. Grammar, etc., Tu. & Fr. Drawing, Mon. & Th. Ditto. Ditto. Diet .and Grammar, Tu. & Fr. Drawing, Mon.&Th. Arithmetic, Tu. & Fr. Drawing, Mon.&Th. Singing, Ten Minutes. 12a 3* .So § fa-Pi a s an Ph bo p 1 M Play-ground. Play-ground. I OS o ^,PGG " o3 •fi r O e3 .2 '-+-> bo P "-£3 bo P •3 Ph 720 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 4. Besides the various branches to enable them to pass in Standards VI. & VIL, there is also — History (Collier's), the Tudor and Stuart Periods. Geography — Scotland, England, Ireland, Palestine, and Intro- ductory Physical Geography. Bible History— to death of Solomon. Catechism. English Composition — paraphrasing and roots. Music — Tonic Sol-fa and Old Notation, Part Songs. Drawing — Freehand and Model. Practical Geometry and Natural Philosophy (oral lessons). 5. Lessons from the Bible and Catechism practically explained. A Sunday time-table is filed herewith. TIME-TABLE, SABBATH, BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITALS, 1872. Hour. 7 a.m. Get up from bed ; private prayer. 8 A.M. Breakfast ; worship. 9.30-10.15 a.m. Emblem lesson ; catechism or singing. 10.30 a.m. Leave for church. 1 p.m. Dinner. 2 p.m. Leave for church. 4.15 p.m. Tea. 4.30-6 p.m. Look up proofs of a doctrine. 6-7 p.m. Sabbath school. 7 p.m. Supper. 7.15-9 p.m. Converse, or read Sunday at Home, etc. 9 p.m. Private prayer ; go to bed. G. Sixteen. Advancement in studies. Yes. By competition. 7. Yes. Schoolroom, 50 ft. by 28 ft., with open roof. Girls' sewing- room, 33 ft. 6 in. by 24 ft. 15 in. There are 100 pupils in schoolroom part of the day, but the girls are part of the day in sewing-room. There is a small library. 8. He is appointed by the Trustees. He conducts the instruction of all the classes. He holds his office by annual appointment. The Assistant Teacher acts under his directions in the schoolroom. 9. There are no fees. James C. Burnett, Master, £100, with board and lodging. Miss M. Johnston, Assistant Teacher and Sewing Mistress, £24, with board and lodging. Both by annual appointment. 10. No. At the discretion of the Trustees. 11. Mr. Kerr, H.M. Inspector of Schools. Separate paper filed here- with. Report of Examination of Boys' and Girls' Hospital Schools for years 1871-72. 1871. The following are the results of the examination of the scholars according to the New Code (Art. 28). Number Number p assed on Examination in presented. Reading. Writing. Arithmetic. Boys', or mixed,? under Master] Girls', or mixed, > under Mistress > 39 40 38 39 35 37 36 29 Boys' School. — In consequence of removal into new premises, this school (both boys' and girls') had its vacation earlier, and inspection was deferred till almost immediately after vacation. The school was therefore seen at a disadvantage. It is in good working order, and made a good appearance both generally and BOYS' AND GIRLS' HOSPITAL, ABERDEEN. 721 under individual examination. The new master gives good promise of success. The buildings are excellent. Girls' School. — This department continues to be well conducted. The girls spend a large portion of their time in domestic work, and receive only half the amount of school teaching given to the boys. Notwithstanding this, a veiy creditable appearance was made, and the school is doing much good. 1872. The following are the results of the examination of the scholars according to the New Code (Art. 28). Boys', or mixed,) under Master) Average attendance for past year. 96 Number Number passed on Examination in presented. Reading. Writing. Arith- metic. 83 83 80 74 This school is in a highly satisfactory state. The standard work is done with great accuracy and intelligence, and the subjects beyond the standards are very well attended to. A very good examination was passed in geography, history, and religious knowledge. Grammar is not quite on the same level. Good freehand and very fair map-drawing. Music is very well taught. The older girls are at most twelve, and some are only four, hours per week in school, the rest of their time being spent in useful domestic work. Notwithstanding this, the appearance they make in all the ordinary branches is most creditable to the industry of the teachers. All the girls spend twelve hours per week in industrial work. They sew and darn very well. The boys' and girls' depart- ments are worked conjointly by the master and mistress. The discipline is very good, and a spirit of cheerfulness and activity pervades the whole school. Miss Johnston will shortly receive her certificate. 12. No. 13. The education is elementary, and the pupils are not of a class to go forward to the University. 14. The occupations of those boys who have left during the last niue years are as follows : — Sailors . House Painters Printers Cabinetmakers Clerks Mechanics Plumbers House Carpenters . Confectioners . Grocers Ship Carpenters Booksellers Carvers and Gilders 19 11 8 8 7 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 2 Drapers Tailors Labourers Brassfounder . . Boilermaker . Watchmaker . Pianoforte Maker . Ironmonger Brushmaker Shoemaker 2 2 o 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Total . . . 91 General. In May 1871 the boys and girls were received into one new building in place of two separate houses, as before. They now take their meals in the same apartment, and are taught in the same schoolroom ; but the dormitories are in separate wings, and the playgrounds are also separate. Alex. Simpson, 35, Castle Street, Aberdeen, 30M Novemher 1872. Secretary and Treasurer. 2 z 722 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. ALEXANDER SHAW'S HOSPITAL, ABERDEEN. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1807. Alexander Shaw. But not opened until many years after Founder's death. 2. 1 For the maintenance, aliment, entertainment, and education of five boys and five girls, who are fatherless, or deserted and forsaken by their parents, or are otherwise destitute and neglected, and have no sufficient means of subsistence or education.' I can furnish copies of the Founder's Testament, and Rules or Statutes made by his Trustees. 3. The sum left by the Founder was £1644. The funds are entirely vested in ground-rents or feu-duties. The gross revenue is now £284. The net revenue is the same. 4. Constituted by the settlement of the Founder, dated 21st July 1807. The Trustees and Administrators are the Provost and Dean of Guild ; the Principal, and the Professors of Greek, Medicine, and Chemistry in the University ; the President of the Society of Advocates ; the eldest and second Ministers of the parish of St. Nicholas ; the senior Clergyman of St. Paul's Chapel ; the senior Physician of the Infirmary ; the Convener of the Incorporated Trades ; the President of the Society of Shipmasters ; the Secretary of the County Club ;— all of Aberdeen, and all for the time being. 5. No. 6. By the Founder's Will. 7. Entire control. 8. The funds of the trust are applied in terms of the Founder's Will, and no otherwise. 9. Boys, 5 ; girls, 5 ; all of whom are fatherless. 10. None. 11. One vacancy and eleven applications. 12. All destitute. 13. Enter between six and nine, and leave at fourteen years of age. 14. No condition but poverty ; and no entrance examination other than a medical one. 15. Yes. In the Trustees. 16. A boy gets £6 of an apprentice fee and an outfit, and £10 at the end of his apprenticeship. A girl gets £2 and outfit, and £8 if she remain five years in a place. A boy showing great genius may be brought up to a liberal profession. 17. None. 18. None. 19. Does not apply to this institution. 20. Annually. By an accountant appointed by the Trustees. Revenue. Feu-Duties £284 14 5 ALEXANDER SHAW'S HOSPITAL. 723 Expenditure. House Goods and Furnishings £11 15 2 House Expenses , 117163 Salaries and Wages 50 17 0 Wearing Apparel 20 4 I Stationery and Education 11 15 2 Sick-bed and Funeral Expenses 4 10 10 Rent 24 0 0 £240 18 6 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 5; girls, 5. At present 10, as above. Sometimes more. 2. There are no foundationers who do not reside in the Hospital. 3. They are generally dressed alike, but there is no prescribed uniform. 4. They are allowed to visit their friends every week, and their friends are allowed to see them in the Hospital at any time on application to the Treasurer. Every Saturday is a holiday ; and there is a month or so of holidays during summer, when such of the children as have respectable friends are allowed to stay with them for a time. 5. No punishment — except perhaps, very rarely, a slight whipping is inflicted, and that by the Matron. No record is kept. 6. No. 7. Similar to what would be in an ordinary well-regulated family. 8. There are three good bed-rooms for the children. Five at present sleep in one room. Each pupil has not always a separate bed. 9. They are quite free in regard to their amusements. There is a garden attached to the house, and a small playground. 10. Water is in the house in abundance. The sanitary arrangements are decidedly good. 11. None. 12. A time-table for 24 hours, and a scale of dietary are filed herewith. TWENTY-FOUR HOURS' TIME-TABLE.— WEEK DAYS. A.M. 7.0 Rise. 8.30 Breakfast. 9.15 Prayers. 10.0 School. P.M. 1.0 Dinner. 2.0 School. 4.0 Play. 6.0 Supper — Lessons — Prayers. 9.0 Bed. DIETARY SCALE. Breakfast — Daily Dinner — Sunday Monday . . Tuesday Wednesday Thursday . Friday . . Porridge and milk. Broth made with beef or mutton or skink, with potatoes. Ditto ditto. Rice or barley, and milk boiled. Fish, with potatoes ; or suet dumpling with treacle. Broth, etc., as on Sunday. Ditto ditto. 724 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dinner — Saturday . Pea- soup and potato soup — alternately. Daily . . Bread (second flour). Supper — ,, . . Porridge and milk. Daily — Any child gets bread or milk at any time when hungry. III. Instruction. 1. Basketmaker Cabinetmaker Coachman Gardener Ropemaker 1 ; Shoemaker "2 1 Shipmaster . . . .1 1 i Unknown .... 1 2! - 1 | Total ... 10 2. No ; except that the girls learn housework and sewing during their stay in the Hospital, and are fit for domestic service when they leave. 3. The children are not educated in the house, but at Dr. John Brown's School, Aberdeen. 4. See preceding answer. 5. The children attend the Church of Scotland (South Parish). Time- table annexed. SUNDAY TIME-TABLE. A.M. 8.0 Rise. 9.0 Breakfast. 9.45 Prayers. 11.0 Church. P.M. 1.0 Dinner. 2.30 Church. 4.0 School. 6.0 Supper — Reading — Prayers. 9.0 Bed. 6. See answer to No. 3 above. 7. See answer to No. 3 above. There is a small collection of books. 8. The Matron and other officials are appointed by the Trustees, and can be removed at pleasure. 9. There is no Teacher. The Matron assists the children in their lessons, and teaches the girls sewing, etc. 10. No. 11. None. 12. None. 13. None that I know of. 14. No record kept. The boys generally get on well in the world, as far as I have observed. I lose sight of the girls sooner, and cannot speak from personal knowledge of them after leaving the institution. General. No. C. W ARRACK, lGth November 1872. Record Office, Aberdeen. DESTITUTE FEMALE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL. 725 HOSPITAL IN ABERDEEN FOR ORPHAN AND DESTITUTE FEMALE CHILDREN. I. Natuke of Foundation. 1. Incorporated by Act of Parliament, 28th July 1849. Trustees of the late John Gordon, Esq. of Murtle, Aberdeenshire, and the Trustees and Executors of the late John Carnegie, Esq., H.E.I.C.S. 2. The moderate and decent maintenance, combined with moral and religious education, of friendless and destitute orphan girls. 3. The capital sum contributed by the Trustees of Mr. Gordon was £7000, and by Dr. Carnegie's Trustees about £14,000. The capital at 31st December 1871 amounted to £23,653, lis., and is invested in mortgages and railway debentures. The gross income for 1871 was £952, 19s. lid., including £93, Is. of incidental income, viz. a legacy of £60, and return of Income-Tax £33, Is. 4. List of Trustees of Hospital in Aberdeen for Orphan and Destitute Female Children. I. Trustees ex officik. 1. Sheriff of the county of Aberdeen. 5. First Minister of the Established 2. Lord Provost of the city of Aberdeen. Church in Aberdeen. 3. Eldest Bailie of the city of Aberdeen. 6. President of the Society of Advocates 4. Principal of the University of Aber- in Aberdeen. deen. II. Life Trustees. 7. Dr. Cruickshank. 8. William Yeats, Esq. of Anquharney. 9. Patrick Davidson, Esq. of Inchmarlo. 10. Alexander lnncs, Esq. of Raemoir and Cowie. 11. Alexander Davidson, Esq. of Dess- wood. 12. Alexander Burnett Whyte, Esq., Muchant. III. Trustees in respect of John Carnegie's Fund. 13. Robert Catto, Esq. of Wallfield. | 14. Major John Ross, H.E.I.C.S. IV. Trustees elected for one Year in Terms of Act of Incorporation. 15. Dr. James Corbet, H.E.I.C.S. 18. Gavin T. Todd, Esq., Manufac- 16. Lambert Barron, Esq., Advocate, turer. Aberdeen. 19. R. S. F. Spottiswood, Esq. of Muir- 17. John Webster, Esq., Advocate, Aber- esk. deen. 5. No. 6. Originally by the Act of Incorporation, and vacancies are filled up by the Trustees. 7. The fullest control over the whole conduct and management of the Hospital. 726 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 8. It is in terms of the Act of Incorporation, and of the regulations, of which a printed copy is herewith sent, and which specify all conditions as to the 'admission of girls;' the duties of the 'Matron,' Teacher,' ' servants,' and ' girls admitted,' as well as the ' general regulations ' of the Institution. These will furnish answers to the questions here asked much more fully and intelligently than can be given in detail under this schedule. 9. Girls, 50 ; of whom 48 are fatherless ; of whom 2, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families, — the father of one being lunatic, and the father of the other having deserted his child, and being since unknown and unheard of. 10. None. 11. Three vacancies and twelve applicants. 12. 2 Fatherless. 1 Father a lunatic. 3 Elected. 13. Admitted not under seven years of age and not over ten. Dis- missed not under fourteen, and not continued after sixteen. 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. See the printed Regulations appended. 20. Accounts are audited quarterly by the Trustees, and at the close of the financial year by a professional or chartered accountant. Abstract of Accounts for Year ending 31st December 1872. I. Stock Account. I. Bill by Harbour Commissioners, £6,900 0 0 II. Bond over Heritable Property, 5,866 15 1 III. Do. do £2,000 0 0 Do. do 3,000 0 0 IV. Do. do. V. Railway Debenture Bond, Do. do. 500 0 0 400 0 0 5,000 0 4,400 0 900 0 0 VI. Balance in Treasurer's bands, 671 7 11 £23,738 3 0 II. Revenue Account. I. Income. £270 14 7 Do. Heritable Security, p. £5,866, 15s. Id., . 230 3 9 Do. do. p. £3,000 and £2,000, 196 3 8 Do. do. p. £4,400, 172 12 10 Do. on Railway Debenture Bonds, .... 35 6 6 5 19 5 6 0 6 II. Expenditure. Payments for small Disbursements, £16 0 0 Provisions, ... 261 6 n 154 6 7 119 7 0 23 17 3 150 0 0 68 0 4 Sundries, including Books and Furnisbiugs for House, . 39 1 m £917 1 3 832 9 Excess of Revenue, . . . £84 12 0 DESTITUTE FEMALE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL. 727 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. I, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. See the printed Regulations appended. II. Three deaths in ten years. 12. See the printed Regulations appended. III. Instruction. 1. Orphan and destitute girls. 2. Chiefly to be domestic servants. 3. 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. See the printed Regulations appended. 9. Matron, £35 per annum, with bed and board in the Hospital. Teacher, £20 do. do. do. 10. No. General. No. Davidson & Garden, 7 Union Terrace, Aberdeen. dth December 1872. Regulations for the Orphan and Destitute Female Children's Hospital. admission of girls. I. No girls shall be admissible until after completing their sixth year, nor after completing their tenth year ; and they must be in good health, free of all infectious complaints, and of a sound constitution, at the time of their admis- sion. Previous to election, the Trustees shall be satisfied, by certificates or otherwise, of the eligibility of the applicants, in conformity with the Act of Parliament and these Regulations. II. The children eligible for election into the Hospital are friendless and destitute orphan girls, who shall have been born in, or shall belong to, or shall be the children or grandchildren of parents who were born in, or did belong to, the city or county of Aberdeen, and such others as shall be deemed suitable. IV. No girl shall be dismissed before she has completed her fourteenth year, nor continued beyond her sixteenth year ; and no dismissal shall take place without the sanction of the Trustees. VI. The children shall be maintained, clothed, and educated during the time they are in the Hospital, and they are to be properly instructed in all kinds of female house-work, including plain cooking, so that they may be qualified for earning their livelihood as domestic servants, or by any other industrious and respectable employment. matron. I. The Matron shall be a member of the Established Church of Scotland, and unmarried woman or a widow, who shall, besides being able to teach the English Language, Writing, and Arithmetic, possess an adequate knowledge of knitting, dressmaking, and other needlework, so as to be able to cut out and superintend the making and mending of the girls' clothing, and to teacli and instruct them in these and in such other branches of female education and 728 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. domestic employment as the trustees shall appoint to be taught. She must also be capable of keeping ordinary accounts, such as are required for the discharge of her duties in the house. II. The Matron shall, subject to the Trustees, have the general superintendence of the whole establishment, and the sole control over the inmates. VI. She shall see that the linen and stockings of the girls are changed twice a week, and the bed linen once every fortnight ; that all of them are properly dressed and kept in a clean and neat condition, supplying them from time to time with the proper garments ; and that care and economy are strictly observed in this department of her duty. She shall also take care that the children are regularly washed twice a day, and bathed at least once every week. X. She shall teach the girls knitting, sewing, and other needlework, and superintend them at their other occupations, and shall also see that the older girls, by working or by assisting the servants in their turns, are instructed in washing and dressing the linen, sweeping and cleaning the house, cooking and preparing the victuals, making and mending their clothes, and in all other kinds of domestic female employments suited to their ages and abilities ; and she shall take notes in a book of their individual conduct, for the inspection of the Trustees. XI. She shall have power to chastise or otherwise punish the children for offences in a suitable and temperate manner. All offences of importance shall be recorded ; and all chastisement shall be inflicted openly, in a formal and deliberate manner, with prudence and discretion, in presence of the whole girls, and shall be recorded in a book immediately after it has taken place. XII. She shall see that everything is conducted with decency and order, and that a grace before and a grace after each meal is audibly pronounced, either by herself or by some other person she may appoint. XIII. She shall, every night, when the girls are going to bed, visit the bed- rooms, and see that the girls are all present, and that each of them performs her proper devotions, as prescribed by the Matron, before going to bed ; and she shall see that all fires and lights in each bedroom are extinguished before she leaves. XIV. She shall take particular care that none of the girls go beyond the bounds of the Hospital without her permission, which shall be given with proper consideration ; and she herself shall be absent as seldom as possible from the Hospital, and shall not be absent one whole night without special permission from the Acting Committee. TEACHER. A Teacher shall be appointed by the Trustees who shall instruct the girls in the English Language, Writing, Arithmetic, and in such other branches of education as the Trustees shall from time to time think proper. IV. The children shall be allowed to visit their friends on the afternoon of each Wednesday, on the permission of the Matron, who shall give them a ticket, specifying the hour at which they must return to the Hospital ; and the Matron shall have it in her power to refuse this leave to any of the girls whose conduct for the previous week may not have been satisfactory. The children shall be taken out to walk by the Matron as often as possible. V. The Matron shall endeavour to procure for the girls, previous to their leaving the Hospital, engagements as house servants in respectable families, or to procure for them any other suitable means of earning their livelihood ; and she shall carefully report all her actings in these respects to the Trustees before any girl leaves the Hospital. VI. Every girl, on leaving the Hospital as above, shall be presented with a Bible, a chest, and clothes fit for a servant ; and as a stimulus to obedience and good behaviour, if she obtain a good character from the masters or mistresses, and from the clergyman of whose congregation she is a member, at the end of three years, she shall be rewarded in such manner as the Trustees shall resolve DESTITUTE FEMALE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL. 729 GENERAL REGULATIONS. I. Friends and relations of the inmates may have permission to see them, with consent and in presence of the Matron, every Friday between twelve and two o'clock ; and in special cases friends and relations may have an opportunity of seeing a girl alone, on production of an order by a Trustee. II. All the girls above twelve years of age, who arc in health, shall rise at six in the morning from the 1st of April to the 1st of October; at seven in the morning during the months of February, March, and October; and at eight in the morning during the months of November, December, and January ; and half an hour will be allowed, after getting up, for washing and dressing. The Matron shall fix the hours of rising for the younger children. III. Divine worship shall be performed by the Matron, Teacher, or a Chaplain, in presence of the whole inmates, twice every day, at such hours as may be fixed by the Trustees. IV. The girls shall breakfast at nine, dine at two, and sup at seven, all the year ; and at all meals they shall be superintended by the Matron. V. The hours of attendance in the school and work-room shall be regulated from time to time by the Trustees. The girls under twelve shall go to bed at eight o'clock, and those of twelve and upwards at nine o'clock. VI. On Sunday, the children shall attend regularly (unless prevented by inclemency of weather) one of the Established churches of the city fixed on by the Trustees, being conducted thither by the Matron. During the evening the Matron shall convene the girls and servants for at least an hour, and catechize and instruct them in the principles of the Christian religion ; and, if thought necessary, the Teacher or Chaplain shall assist her therein. VII. There shall always be a bed for at least every two girls, provided with proper mattresses, pillows, blankets, and sheets, which shall be kept properly aired and cleaned. VIII. As an apartment in the house shall be appropriated as a sick-room, any girl, when seized with a disease that assumes a serious aspect, shall be removed into it, and the Matron shall apply to the physician attending the Hos- pital for assistance and advice ; and all medicines shall be administered by the Matron herself ; and, in the event of fever or other infectious disease, the patient shall be immediately removed to the Royal Infirmary, or to the care of her relations. 730 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. THE ABERDEEN FEMALE ORPHAN ASYLUM, IN THE CITY OF ABERDEEN. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 22d August 1849. Mary Ehnslie, of Woodcote Place, near Epsom, widow of James Elmslie, late of the same place, Esquire. 2, 'For the reception of female orphans, . . . who must be orphans of married parents of respectable character, however low or destitute their situation in life, to be trained principally as domestic servants.' A copy of the Trust-Deed, and of a subsequent Deed of Alteration, is sent herewith ;* also of the Form of Application to be filled up before admission sent herewith. Extract from Rules and Forms of Admission to the Aberdeen Female Orphan Asylum. No. 1. The girls to be admitted must be Orphans of married parents, who have been of respectable character, however low or destitute their situation in life ; and to give a claim to the benefit of the Institution, it is indispensable that, as to seven-tenths of the number, the last surviving parent should have lived, for three years preceding the period of his or her death, within the boundaries of what was formerly called, and still is known as, Saint Nicholas parish, of the city of Aberdeen. None to be admitted as objects of the Asylum unless those who have been deprived, by the hand of death, of both father and mother, and who are not possessed of more than £20 at the time of their enter- ing the Asylum ; the Managers, however, always giving the preference to those candidates who are wholly or the most destitute.! 2. Under the same conditions and restrictions as above, two- tenths of the number of Orphans from the parish of Old Machar, and one-tenth from the parish of Nigg — both in the Presbytery of Aberdeen — to be received , into the Asylum, and have the same advantages in every way as the Orphans of Saint Nicholas parish. 3. The children claiming to be admitted must not be under four years of age, nor older than eight ; and to be retained in the Asylum until they are sixteen years of age, the time fixed for their entering service, or being given over to their friends or the parish. See No. 8. 4. The Orphans of parents of all religious persuasions to be admissible, but under the absolute rule of consenting to be trained up in the established reli- gion, as hereinafter expressed. 3. (1) The building and ground on which it stands free of feu-duty. (2) £20,000 new 3J per cent, annuities. (3) £100 3 per cent, bank annuities. (4) £2000 3 per cent, consolidated bank annuities. (5) £2900 3 per cent, consolidated bank annuities. (6) £15,000 reduced 3 per cents., all presently invested as left by the Foundress, with the exception of £4179, 2s. sold for £3855, 4s. 6d., which had to be sold to pay succession duties, etc. The gross and net annual revenue are the same, namely £1074, 12s. 6d. * The substance of these Deeds is embodied in the above Answers. f This proportion was afterwards altered by the Foundress. See Deed of Alteration. £20,100 0 0 4,900 0 0 15,000 0 0 £40,000 0 0 4,179 2 0 £35,820 18 0 THE ABERDEEN FEMALE ORPHAN ASYLUM. 731 4. During the life of the Foundress she was to draw the dividends on the above-mentioned stock, and pay the expenses of the Institution. After her death, which took place on 9th November 1868, the Trust devolved on certain Trustees and Managers named by the Foundress in her deed of trust, and others, subsequently assumed. The present Trustees are — John Hopton Forbes, of Merryoak, Southampton ; Alex- ander Simpson, junior, Advocate in Aberdeen ; John Cruickshank, LL.D., Aberdeen ; Alexander Pirie, Seaton House, Aberdeen ; John Smith, Advocate, Aberdeen (Managers ex officio) ; the Lord Provost, Aberdeen ; the Dean of Guild, Aberdeen ; the Convener of the Trades, Aberdeen ; the President of the Shipmasters' Society, Aberdeen ; the Ministers of the West, East, North, and South Parishes, Aberdeen (ap- pointed by the Town Council of Aberdeen) ; John Duguid Milne and Robert S. F. Spottiswood, Advocates, Aberdeen (appointed by the Trustees and Managers) ; James B. M'Combie, Advocate ; and Gavin T. Todd, Manufacturer, Aberdeen. 5. No. 6. The Trust Deed is here referred to (page 23). 7. The Managers meet monthly, and a,lso at other times, if necessary ; and exercise a direct control over the Hospital, its staff, discipline, and instruction. They are assisted in the domestic arrangements by a Committee of Ladies. (See Trust Deed, page 25.) 8. The Trust is presently applied in all respects in terms of the Foundress' will. 9. Girls, 46 ; all of whom are fatherless, and all are children of decayed or necessitous families. 10. None. 11. Sixty vacancies. Six applicants, all of whom were elected. 12. All those elected embraced in the Founder's intention. Names. Janet Stewart, . Margaret Rattray, Mary Stephen, . Isabella Pringle Miller, Charlotte Hay Miller, Olivia Farquh arson Christie, Trade of Fathers. Parish from which admitted. Coppersmith, Baker, Shoemaker, Plasterer, . Plasterer, . Cabinetmaker, Saint Nicholas. Old Machar. 13. They enter between four and eight, and leave at sixteen, but a limited number are retained till eighteen. 14. They must all be female orphans of married respectable parents, the survivor of whom for three years before death must have resided in one or other of the following parishes, viz. Saint Nicholas, Old Machar, Nigg, or Banchory-Devenick. They may belong to any Church, but must be brought up as members of the Established Church of Scotland. There is no entrance examination. 15. Yes. In the Board of Managers. 16. When they leave the Institution they get a substantial outfit, and situations are provided for them as domestic servants. (See Regulations.) They are further entitled to money prizes for length of service in the situation provided for them (see Trust Deed, p. 30) ; and pensions of £12 yearly are provided to the orphans on attaining the age of sixty-five, under certain conditions (see Trust Deed, p. 41). In reference to the rewards, a schedule, No. 6, is sent herewith. 17. None. 18. None. 732 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 19. No non-Foundationers. 20. No. 8' sent herewith. A copy of the account for the last fiuancial year is sent herewith. The accounts are audited yearly by three of the Managers appointed for that purpose, and abstracts have to be published in one of the Aberdeen newspapers, once in five or seven years (by rule 57), and by rule 58 once in three years. In practice they are published once in three years. Householders in Aberdeen (paying a rent of not less than £20) may object to the accounts, in which case the Sheriff of the County is to examine them. (See rule 58, p. 45 of Trust Deed.) THE ABERDEEN FEMALE ORPHAN ASYLUM. 733 t>.o«o O ^Heocoocao^o . a. © oo o 1— I iOj(5Ht»OHO(CO: t- lO » ^ oo o 'O o a o oo CO Tl i-l HH00 *H| CO o o 'O OOffiiOOOiHtO 1^. CO 'ft r-l CO CO CO o^ 1 §^ §"§>§ a cs o> ^ SrP EH ^ o c3 Cy ■!) CD A G .J", CP ,3 EH cS CP CP rP CP p ^ O tH CP CP -3 is P s3 'J P 53 s« S° rP P CP ,P P EH « 736 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. III. Instruction. 1. The respectable working: classes. Bakers, 3 Clerks, 3 Shore Porters, . 2 Brassfounder, 1 Farmer, 1 Stone-Dresser, . 1 Blacksmiths, 2 Grocer's Assistant, } Stone-Mason, . 1 BleaoheiN 2 Hairdresser, 1 Slater, . 1 Brewer, 1 Labourers, 4 Soldier, . 1 Coppersmith, 1 Mill Overseer, . 1 Seamen, . 5 Cabinetmaker, . 1 Plasterers, 3 Tinsmith, . . 1 Contractor, 1 Police Constable, 1 Cab-Driver, 1 Railway Servant, 1 Total, . 46 Carpet- Weaver, . 1 Shoemakers, 4 2. Yes ; they are intended to be domestic servants, and receive iu- struction in their duties as such. A few who show superior abilities are trained as pupil-teachers. 3. The time-table under II. section 12 shows this. 4. This is not strictly an Educational Establishment; it is more for the purpose of turning out a decent respectable class of house servants, fairly instructed in household work, and at the same time able to write and express themselves in such a way as to fit them for being put in good situations as servants. A copy of the last report by H. M.'s Inspector of Schools is sent herewith. Report by Her Majesty's Inspector of Schools for November 18C9. This School made a very good appearance in Reading and Religious Knowledge. The AVriting from Dictation and Arithmetic of the higher classes are not on the same level. Dictation exercises should be given more frequently if possible, and Arithmetic should be more practical. A good examination was passed in the Geography of Palestine ; that of Scotland needs revisal. It is only fair to mention that about half of the pupils' time is occupied with domestic and industrial work. Very good Sewing and AVriting. Report for November 1871. The condition of this School continues to be satisfactory. The standard examination, though somewhat weak in the Spelling of the highest class, on the whole creditable. Religious Knowledge is very good, and the subjects beyond the standards receive satisfactory attention. Some of the older girls being much occupied with household duties, were not presented for the standard examination. Steps are to be taken to remedy this. 5. This was deemed by the Foundress one of the most important points to be attended to. See time-table No. 3, under II. section 12 hereof. 6. Ten to twelve in a class. They change standards or classes yearly as required by H. M.'s Inspector of Schools. Prizes (books) are awarded at the annual examinations as per class register, and to those deemed most deserving by the Matron and Teacher. 7. There is a large school-room. There are no separate class-rooms. There is a library. The school-room is 40 x 20 feet, and 14 or 15 feet high. 8. The Managers appoint the Matron. She takes a general super- intendence of the teaching and instruction, as well as of the household matters. Her tenure of office is from year to year, but may be dismissed on three months' notice or three months' pay. THE ABERDEEN FEMALE ORPHAN ASYLUM. 737 9. Matron, Mrs. Reid; Teacher, Miss Anderson (both appointed on same terms as in previous answer). Salaries, £40 and £35 respectively. Pupil Teacher, Miss Watt. No salary. These three reside in the Asylum, and are found in board, lodging, and medical attendance. There are no fees. 10. See copy Trust Deed, p. 41. 11. Copy Reports for two years sent herewith. (See answer to query 4, p. 736.) 1-2. None. 13. 14. No official record is kept. A good many of the old girls have married. A few have emigrated. Most of them hold respectable situa- tions as teachers, ladies'-maids, housekeepers, and domestic servants. General. No. Al. Simpson, Jun., Secretary, Court House, Aberdeen. 11M January 1873. 3 4 738 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. SCOTT INSTITUTION, TOWN OF GREENOCK. L Nature of Foundation. 1. December 1838. William Scott, of Saint Andrews, county Char- lotte, province of New Brunswick. 2. The endowment of a school for maintenance and education of as many indigent orphan children as the proceeds of founder's property may be able to support and educate. Children to be instructed in English reading and grammar, writing, arithmetic, and a few of the plain branches of mathematics. No children to be continued in the institution over 15 years of age. 3. The fund left by the founder consisted principally of land in New Brunswick. The Trustees of the founder recovered from his executors the sum of £4500, or thereabouts. The Trustees have invested £3500 in the Town Proper Trust of Greenock, at 5 per cent, per annum of interest. The balance was expended in the purchase of house and school, etc. 4. The Trustees appointed by the founder to administer the trust funds received and recovered from the executors are the Provost and Magistrates for the time being, and also the two Clergymen of the East and West parish churches of Greenock, his father's native town. Present Trustees are Provost Robert Neill, Bailie William Birkmyre, Bailie William Neill, Bailie Dugald Campbell, Bailie Alexander Scott, Rev. James Hutcheson, and Rev. Dr. M'Culloch, of the East and West parishes of Greenock. 5. No Hospital. 6. The Trustees of the founder appoint a Governor and Matron to take the immediate charge of the orphan children as regards their maintenance and education. A medical gentleman regularly visits the Institution ; his allowance is nearly nomiual. 7. The Trustees exercise control over the institution. They see that the orphan children are well maintained and educated. 8. The fund realized by the executors of the founder and received by the Trustees was small as compared with the purpose of the trust. The Trustees therefore, under competent advice, laid out and invested the funds to the very best advantage, so as to educate as many orphan children as possible; and the application of the fund is as near as circumstances would justify or was possible with the intention of the founder. 9. Boys, 4 ; girls, 2 ; all of whom are fatherless and motherless. 10. None. 11. One. 12. All the children in the institution are from 11 to 14 years of age, and have been carefully selected in terms of the trust. 13. Enter school at 7, and leave at 15, SCOTT INSTITUTION, GREENOCK. 739 11. Indigent orphan children is the sole condition of admission to the benefits of the institution. 15. All power in this respect vested in Trustees. 16. The Trustees are to endeavour to put the children in a way of providing for themselves. 17. None. All resident in the institution, where they receive a part of their education, and a part at a neighbouring seminary. 18. None. No fees. 19. None. 20. The Accounts are audited at quarterly meetings by the Trustees, and signed by the Chairman of the meeting. Abstract of Accounts for year ending December 1872. Charge. Interest on £3500, lent to Greenock Police Board, at 5 per cent., less Income Tax £170 12 6 Rent of House adjoining the institution 19 0 0 Total Charge, £189 12 6 Discharge. Governor's Salary £15 0 0 Teacher's Fees (school) 605 Secretary's Fee 550 Medical Attendant's Fee 200 Clothes, Material, and Making 37 4 10 Milk . . 13 17 6 Baker . k . 14 18 2 Flesher 14 10 11 Grocer . . . . 20 3 6 Coals . 8 18 6 Shoemaker 949 Medicines 066 Taxes . . . . 2 7 1 Gas . 3 10 9 Feu-duty 2 17 11 Repairs 13 2 9 Insurance 0 11 0 Sundries 833 £178 2 10 Balance Surplus Charge . . £11 9 8 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 4; girls, 2. These six reside in the institution under the charge of the Governor and Matron, from whom they receive a part of their education, and who are responsible to the Trustees for their care and maintenance and education of the children. 2. All reside in the institution. 3. None. They are supplied with clothing, but wear no particular uniform. 4. The usual school vacation holidays. Friends are allowed to visit, and children can visit, friends on Saturdays. The usual freedom of children receiving a home education. 740 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 5. No punishment beyond necessary and kindly correction. No record required to be kept. None. 7. No hospital. The children live with the Governor and Matron, who take care of them day and night. 8. The two girls sleep together; bedroom, 8 feet in height, 11 in length, and 14 in width. The boys occupy two bed-rooms, 20 feet in length by about 8 in height. 9. Usual amusements ; playground small ; but institute in a healthy part of the town, and close to the country. 10. All necessary provisions for cleanliness. Sanitary arrangements reasonably good. 11. No death has yet occurred in the institution. 12. TWENTY-FOUR HOURS' TIME-TABLE. 7.0 a.m. Rise. 8.30 a.m. Wash ; Dress ; Worship. 9.0 a.m. Breakfast. 9.30-12.30 a.m. School. 12.30 p.m. Piece and Play. 1.0-4.0 p.m. School. 4.0-6.0 p.m. Dinner ; Play. 6.0-7.0 p.m. Supper. 7.0-9.0 p.m. Amusements ; Worship ; Lessons ; Amusement. 9.0. p.m. Bed. DIETARY SCALE FOR A WEEK. Breakfast — Daily . . Porridge and new milk, bread and butter. Dinner Monday . . Pea-soup, made with 2 lbs. mutton or beef ; bread to the mutton or beef. „ Tuesday . . Rice and milk, bread and butter. ,, Wednesday Barley-broth, made with 3 lbs. mutton or beef, with vegetables ; bread and butter. ,, Thursday . Mutton or beef, with bread or potatoes. ,, Friday . . Fish and potatoes. ,, Saturday . Barley-broth, made with 3 lbs. mutton or beef, with vegetables ; bread and butter. ,, Sabbath . . Mutton or beef, with bread and butter and coffee. ,, Supper — Bread and butter, with milk. ,, Mid-day at 12.30. Bread and butter. Supper — Porridge and new milk, bread and butter ; nightly, with exception of Sabbath. III. Instruction. 1. All indigent orphan children from working or labouring classes. 2. No ; but girls are taught sewing and knitting. 3. No industrial training, and query before answered. 4. The children are educated from day to day in the institute and seminary as near as possible according to the intentions of the founder, and have all made satisfactory progress. The ordinary class-books in use in parish schools. 5. All the children attend the West Parish Church of Greenock (Dr. M'Culloch). They attend the Sabbath school. The Governor of the institution is a missionary in connection with Dr. M'Culloch's church. C. Regulated by schoolmaster in the usual way. SCOTT INSTITUTION, GREENOCK. 741 7. The dwelling-house is small, but the school is suitable in all respects. No library, but Governor gives children the use of his books. 8. The Trustees appoint the Governor, by whom the children arc partly educated in the institution, and receive the rest in an adjoining seminary. The Governor is appointed yearly. The adjoining seminary is the West Parish School. 9. Don't apply. 10. None. 11. Instruction reported on by the clergymen and Trustees from time to time, but not reported on by any one unconnected with the institute. 12. Consider the results satisfactory as compared with other institutions. 13. None. 11. None. General. No. 2bth January 1873. D. Campbell, 29, Cathcart Street, Greenock. 742 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. THE ELGIN INSTITUTION FOR THE SUPPORT OF OLD AGE AND EDUCATION OF YOUTH. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. Twenty-third day of November 1815. Major- General Andrew Anderson, of the Honourable the East India Company's Service, who died in 1826. Foundation here came into operation in 1833. 2. For founding and endowing an Hospital, a School of Industry, and Free School, within the town of Elgin or its immediate vicinity. In the first place, an Hospital for the support and maintenance of indigent men and women not under fifty-five years of age. Second, a School of Industry, for the support, maintenance, clothing, and education of male and female children of the labouring class of society, whose parents are unable to maintain and educate them, and for placing and putting out the said children, when fit to be so, as apprentices to some trade or occu- pation, or employing them in such a manner as may enable them to earn a livelihood by their lawful industry, and make them useful members of society ; and thirdly, an establishment of a Master and Mistress, properly qualified, to conduct a Free School, for the education only of such male and female children whose parents may be in narrow circumstances, but still able to maintain and clothe their children. A printed copy of the Will and of the existing Statutes and Regulations, as revised and adopted by the Trustees on 6th June 1865, are herewith sent. 3. The residue of the truster's estate forming this Foundation, after providing for the expenses of the buildings and purchase of land and other necessary disbursements, amounts to £44,416. This sum is wholly invested in landed security at 4 per cent., and yields at present an annual income of £1776. 4. By the Will, the Founder appointed his original Trustees and Executors to pay over the residue of his whole real and personal estate to the Sheriff-Depute of the county of Elgin, the Sheriff-Substitute of the said county, the Provost or Chief Magistrate of the burgh of Elgin, the two Established Ministers of the town and parish of Elgin, and the Moderator of the Presbytery of Elgin, all for the time being, and their successors in their respective offices. The present accepting and acting Trustees are, Donald MacLeod Smith, Esquire, Advocate, Sheriff-Sub- stitute of the county of Elgin, Alexander Cameron, Esquire, Provost of the burgh of Elgin, the Rev. Francis Wylie, D.D., and the Rev. Philip Jervis Mackie, the two Established Ministers of the town and parish of Elgin, and the Rev. John Garioch, Minister of Burgheacl, Moderator of the Presbytery of Elgin. The present Sheriff-Depute of the county of Elgin declined to act. 5. The Hospital is a branch of the 4 Institution.' The Institution itself forms no part of any other foundation. THE ELGIN INSTITUTION. 743 6. The Trustees or Administrators hold the appointment ex officiis, in terms of the Founder's Will. 7. The Trustees directly control the whole establishment, and appoint the officials. 8. The application of the trust funds is in terms of the Founder's Will, the only deviation therefrom being in regard to the age of the children when they enter and leave the School of Industry. The Will states that none of these children shall be under six years of age at their entry, nor exceed twelve years of age when they cease to enjoy these advantages. The Trustees at the outset found children of six years of age too young to enter the Institution, and do not admit them till they are eight years old, allowing them to remain in the Institution till they are fourteen years of age, and fit to be placed to a trade or some useful occupation. In adopting this deviation, the Trustees were much guided by the advice of Mr. (afterwards Lord) Cuninghame, Sheriff-Depute, and then one of the Trustees. 9. Boys, 22 ; girls, 21 : of whom 18 are fatherless ; of whom 25, though not fatherless, are children of decayed or necessitous families. The average number of such children in the School of Industry has since 1851 been limited to 25 boys and 25 girls ; but in consequence of the increased cost of maintenance and clothing, it is in contemplation to reduce the number of boys by 10. 10. None. 11. The vacancies at the last election were 5, and the applicants were 13 ; and from these, 5 were elected. 12. All elected from decayed and necessitous parents. Three-fifths of those elected during the last ten years were fatherless or motherless. 13. As above explained, the children, when admitted into the School of Industry, are not under eight, and do not exceed fourteen or thereabout when they leave. 14. The Founder directed and appointed that children from any part of the county of Elgin be preferred to all others. There are no other con- ditions of admissions except those relating to age above explained. There is no entrance examination except as to physical health. 15. The Trustees have power to dismiss the Foundationers. 16. The boys when they leave the school are apprenticed to some trade or occupation, and are allowed by the Trustees an apprentice fee, payable in instalments. The apprentice fee for each boy latterly varies from £25 to £30, besides a suitable outfit of clothing. The girls get an outfit of clothes, etc., computed at £8 each. 1 7. Reference made to appendix for information as to out-door pupils in connection with the Institution. 18. None. 19. No. 20. An abstract of the accounts for the last financial year is sent. This abstract embraces the whole expenditure, including that of the Hospital and Free School, always blended together, and cannot well be distinguished. The Treasurer's accounts are audited by the Trustees and Secretary at their quarterly meetings, and also annually. (See p. 750.) II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 22 ; girls, 21. 2. None. 3. Yes. 744 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 4. The parents and friends of the children are allowed to see them at any time, on first obtaining leave of the House Governor or Master if a boy, and of the Matron or Schoolmistress if a girl. Children whose parents or friends reside in Elgin or neighbourhood are allowed to visit them on Saturday after twelve noon, but they must return same day before four o'clock in winter and eight o'clock in summer. Children whose parents reside at a distance have the same indulgence, on being sent for on Saturday, and return by noon on Monday. About four weeks' holidays are allowed in midsummer, and ten days at Christmas. 5. The Master or Mistress has the power to determine the punishment of the children. Corporal punishment but rare. A few have been dis- missed for misconduct, and others admonished by the Trustees. In such cases a record thereof is kept in the minutes of the Trustees. Only three have been dismissed within the last ten years. 6. Two boys selected by the Master and two girls by the Mistress, as inspectors, superintend the other children at play, and inform the Master or Mistress of any improper conduct. The senior pupils have no other authority or charge over the junior. 7. The Schoolmaster and Schoolmistress have during the day, except at play hours, a constant supervision of the children. A servant sleeps in a room adjoining the dormitories. The Schoolmaster or Porter of the establishment frequently walks with the boys, and the Schoolmistress with the girls. 8. (1) Boys' dormitories, 26 ft. 9 in. by 17 ft. 4 in., and 12 ft. 4 in. high. Seven beds, two pupils in each bed. Cubical contents for each, 404 ft. (2) Boys' dormitories, 27 ft. by 16 ft. 10 in., and 12 ft. 4 in. high. Seven beds, two pupils in each bed. Cubical contents for each, 393 ft. Girls' dormitories same as boys'. 9. The children select their own amusements, and are left as free in respect of these amusements as pupils at other schools usually are. The playground contains about three acres. 10. Washing rooms, with all necessary utensils for daily use. Large bath on Saturday night. Sanitary arrangements of the whole establish- ment are good. 11. One boy and two girls have died during last ten years. 12. Time-table. Reference made to Statutes and Regulations, pp. 8 and 9, and for the Dietary, p. 14, but which Dietary is occasionally varied. (See p. 750.) III. Instruction. 1. The children are selected from the labouring classes of society whose parents are unable to maintain, clothe, and educate them. Of the 43 presently in the school, their fathers were, viz. : Labourers and Farm Servants, . . .16 Artisans, ...... 7 Seamen, ...... 2 Fatherless — occupation not stated, ♦ . 11 Orphans, „ . , .7 43 2. No. Reference made to Statutes and Regulations. Page 13. 3. Reference made to the Statutes and Regulations, page 9 ; and to Time-table sent herewith, p. 749. THE ELGIN INSTITUTION. 745 4. The highest clnss has revised the half of the Scottish Association's Book ; highest No. Gone over the whole of Grammar (generally Lennie's), the Outlines of Geography, parts of the History of England, Algebra, Vulgar and Decimal Fractions, Proportion, Practice, Interest. All the children get instruction in Music twice a week for an hour. 5. Explaining the Bible according to the Shorter Catechism. Reference made to Statutes and Regulations, page 10, and the Sunday Time-table, filed and sent herewith. (See p. 740.) 6. From four to seven. The best marks during the session. Prizes are given to them who stand highest in the respective classes, and some of them are awarded in the end of the session by competition. 7. Boys' Class Rooms, 2G ft. 8 in. by 17 ft. 3 in., and 11 ft. 9 in. high. Usual number of pupils, 25. There is a small library. Girls Class Room, 26 ft. 0 in. by 17 ft. 3 in., and 1 1 ft. 9 in. high. 8. The Trustees appoint the House Governor or Master. He teaches the whole of the boys and the girls in some branches, conducts divine worship night and morning, and has the chief authority in the house. He holds office during the pleasure of the Trustees. There are no other Masters excepting a Teacher of Music, over whom he exercises control. 9. House Governor or Master, Rev. John Eddie, £55, with bed, board, and washing. Matron, Miss Simpson, £40 per annum, with ditto. Schoolmistress, Miss MacGrigor, £25 per annum, with ditto. Music Teacher, Mr. Allan, £10. No school fees are exacted. All the teachers are removeable at the pleasure of the Trustees. 10. Yes. Reference made to Statutes and Regulations sent. Page 30. 11. No. There is an annual examination of the pupils by the Trustees, in presence of the public, who are invited by public advertisements. 12. Yes. Parochial and other schools within the Presbytery of Elgin. 13. None. 14. A record is kept of the trade or employment to which the boys are appointed, — the majority of them to common trades or artisans ; some to be clerks, mercantile pursuits, and teachers. The girls are generally engaged to be house servants, and some of them as teachers. After their apprenticeships expire, the males generally go south or abroad to prosecute their trade or profession, and the females to various parts of the country. No record can be kept of their whereabouts. General. The Trustees had in 1870 under their consideration changes proposed by two of tho Trustees, under the Endowed Institution (Scotland) Act, 18G9, which were opposed by the other three Trustees, and the matter then dropped. 746 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. APPENDIX. ELGIN INSTITUTION FREE SCHOOL. Answers to Queries in so far as applicable to the Free School as forming part of the ' Elgin Institution for the Support of Old Age and Education of Youth.' 1 I. Nature of Foundation. 11. Vacancies occur from time to time, and are filled up by the Trustees at their monthly meetings, to the number of 300. 1 2. From parents or guardians who are in narrow circumstances, but who are able to maintain and clothe their children. 13. The children are admitted at seven years of age, and generally remain in the school till they are thirteen or fourteen. 14. The Founder directed that children from any part of the county of Elgin be preferred to all others. There are no other conditions of admission, and there is no entrance examination. 17. The usual number of male and female children in attendance varies from 280 to 300, receiving a gratuitous education, books and writing materials, but no maintenance or clothing. 20. The accounts for this school are blended with those of Hospital and School of Industry, and reference made to the abstract sent. They cannot well be separated. (See p. 750.) [Time-Table. THE ELGIN INSTITUTION. 747 4th Class. 10.30-11, Preparing Lesson. 11-11.40, Reading. 11.40-12, Slate Writing, or Arithmetic. 12, Dismissed. 2-2.30, Reading. 2.30-3, Slate Writing. 3-4.30, Sewing or Knitting. 3d Class. 10.30-11, Preparing Lesson. 11-11.30, Writing. 10.30-12, Reading. . 12-12.10, Dictation. 12.10-1, Arithmetic. 2-2.30, Religious Knowledge. 2.30-3, Slate Writing. 3-4.30, Sewing or Knitting. o CO £""1 2d Class. 10.30-11, Reading. 11-11.20, Dictation. 11.20-12.30, Arithmetic. 12.30-1, Writing. 2-2.30, Religious Knowledge. 2.30-3, Slate Writing. 3-4.30, Sewing or Knitting. ng, and Calling of Roll, 10.11 1st Class. 10.30-11, Religious Knowledge. 11-11.20, Grammar and Analysis. 11.20-12, Writing, or Dictation. 12-1, Reading, etc., Correcting Exercises. 12-1, Composition on Friday. -2 P.M. 2-3, Geography and Map-drawing, or Arithmetic. 3-4.30, Sewing or Knitting. 5th Class. 10.30-11, Preparing Lesson. 11-11.40, Reading. 11.40-12, Arithmetic, or Slate Writing 12, Dismissed. 1 for Dinner, 1 2-2.30, Reading. 2.30-3, Slate Writing. 3, Dismissed. Services, Singi 4th Class. 10.30-11, Preparing Lesson, etc. 11-11.40, Reading. 11.40-12, Slate Writing, or Dictation. 12-1, Arithmetic. Interva 2-2.40, Reading. 2.40-3, ' Slate Writing. 3-4, Arithmetic. Opening 3d Class. 10.30-11, Religious Knowledge. 11-11.15, Preparing Lesson. 11.15-12, Reading, etc. 12-1, Arithmetic. 2-2.30, Slate Writing. 2.30-3, Writing. 3-4, Arithmetic. 2d Class. 10.30-11, Religious Knowledge. 10-11.45, Arithmetic. 11.45-12, Slate Writing. 12-12.40, Reading, etc. 12.40-1, Grammar. 2-2.30, Geography and Dictation. 2.30-3, Writing. 3-4, Arithmetic. 1st Class. 10.30-11, Religious Knowledge. 11-11.20, Grammar and Analysis. 11.20-12, Writing, or Dictation. 12-1, Reading, etc.. Correcting Exercises. a . .2 t>> J, o ^ rH S a o § 2-3, Geography and Map-drawing, or Arithmetic. 3-4, Arithmetic. o 12 EH 748 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. III. Instruction. (4.) Nelson's Advanced Reader is used in the highest class of the Free School, of which about one-half was read during last session. Grammar, with analysis, is chiefly taught orally, and based on Morell's Grammar. Geography is taught orally from Anderson's Geography ; Scotland, England, and Europe were gone over last session. Composition is taught nearly according to the method in Dalgleish's Outlines of Composition. The Arith- metic comprised Proportion, Practice, Interest, Vulgar and Decimal Fractions. (5.) The Religious Instruction is similar to that of an ordinary well-regulated day school. No Sunday work in the Free School. (6.) Thirty is the average number in each class. Promotion from a lower to a higher class depends upon progress in learning. Marks are given for exercises, and the highest numbers gain the prizes. Marks are given for about three months before the examination by the Trustees. Copy Summaries of Inspector's Reports on Free School for Years 1869-70-71. 1869. This large school is conducted with very great earnestness and care, and with very good standard and general results. 276 Avere present, and 175 presented, — of whom one failed in Reading, nine in Writing, and sixteen in Arithmetic ; the failures being chiefly in the fourth staudard. The papers are very neatly written, and the writing throughout was very good and clear. The lower standards passed with great ease and correctness. Grammar, Geography, and Religious Knowledge are good, but the intelligence of the children should be much more exercised. Geography should be taught orally to a larger number. Map-drawing deserved special commendation ; Free- hand Drawing is also good. Regular exercises are given in Composition with good results. Music, accompanied by the harmonium, is well conducted. The discipline might be more thorough during class movements. The Industrial work is good and varied. [ Grammar, H. Grigor, ] Spelling, and ( Arithmetic. (Initialed) J. S. 1870. This large school continues to be conducted with very great care, and very good standard and good general results. The work was done with great ease, and class movements were well performed. Reading is fluent in all, and good in highest class, but might be more expressive. Writing very good -on slate, copy, and paper. Fingers are still used in Arithmetic ; a ball frame should be got. Geography is good. Very good Map Drawing. The Grammar of the highest class should be more thorough. Exercises in Composition are carefully given, with very creditable results. The systematic teaching of the subject is recommended. Drawing is well taught. Some pieces were well sung, accompanied by the harmonium. A much larger proportion of the scholars, qualified by age and attendance, should be presented for examination. ( Grammar, A. Urquhart, < Composition, ( Euclid. C Grammar, H. Grigor, ( History. 1871. This school continues to be taught with vigour, pleasantness, and good ability. The arrangements are good, and all movements very well done. The large presentation passed very well. Reading very fluent ; should be slower in higher classes. Writing very good indeed. Fingers still much used in girls' classes. Geography very good. Maps very good ; some exceedingly good memory maps. Grammar seems not well understood, and wanting in thorough- THE ELGIN INSTITUTION. 749 ness. Composition exercises good ; a systematic course by text-book strongly recommended. Drawing good. With less talking during change, the order would be superior. Singing very good with harmonium. Industrial work good ; more might be shown. Darning and Mending again recommended. J. G. Dan, A. Urquhart, H. Grigor, and M. Jeans 1 names have been removed from the Register of Pupil-teachers. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 2. The children reside with their parents or guardians, no provision being made for their lodging. 3. The children at this school wear no uniform. 4. Six weeks' holidays at midsummer, and two weeks at Christmas. 5. The Master or Mistress has power to determine the punishment. Corporal punishment slight and rare. No record kept. C. No. The Master is assisted by Pupil- teachers. 9. The children select their own amusements, and are left as free in respect of these as pupils at other schools usually are. The playground contains about three acres. 10. Sanitary arrangements good. 11. Scarcely orceper cent, per annum. 12. Time-table and Instructions filed herewith. (See below.) III. Instruction. 1. From parents in narrow circumstances, but who are able to maintain and clothe their children, chiefly artisans and labourers. 2. No. 3 to 6. Reference made to Instruction-table filed herewith. No. 6. 7. Boys' class-room, 46 ft. 6 in. by 27 ft. 9 in., 16 ft. high. Girls 1 class-room, 27 ft. 6 in. by 27 ft. 6 in., 16 ft. high. 8. The Master and Mistress are appointed by the Trustees. 9. Mr. John Brown, £70, Mrs. Brown, his wife, £20, per annum, with free house, coals, gas, and vegetables. No fees are exacted. 10. Reference made to printed Regulations sent herewith, p. 30. 11. The school is annually inspected by one of Her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools. There is also an annual examination by the Trustees, in presence of the public, invited by advertisements. Copies of Inspector's report for last three years sent. No. 7. 12. Yes. 13. None. 14. None. INSTRUCTION TIME-TABLE. Week Days. Morning. — One or two verses of Scripture committed to memory. Reading, etc., and Grammar. Forenoon. — Writing, Arithmetic, and Algebra. Afternoon. — Composition in the higher classes ; Reading and Dictation in the lower. Geography and History every second afternoon. The girls are an hour in the afternoon with the Master, for Writing, Arithmetic, and Geography, and Grammar on alternate days. Evening. — Reading the Scriptures, and examination on the passage read ; the Shorter Catechism, with Psalms, etc., committed to memory. NOTE. — The boys are taught industrial work under the superintendence of the Gardener. The girls receive instruction in Sewing, Knitting, Mending, and Housework, under the superintendence of the Matron. Sunday. Instruction in the Bible in the morning, and the same before church in the forenoon. In the afternoon, after the second diet of public worship, Catechism and Psalms, etc., committed to memory. 750 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. The inmates of the Hospital and the servants are catechized from six to seven o'clock in the evening, and the children are examined in religion from a quarter past seven till eight o'clock. DIETARY SCALE. Breakfast. Daily. — Oatmeal Pottage, and Sweet or Butter Milk. Sunday. — Barley Broth, with Bread and Beef. Refreshment of Bread and Milk in the interval of Sermons. Monday. — Pease Soup, with Bread. Tuesday. — Vegetables in which Beef has been boiled, besides Broseand Bread. Wednesday. — Rice and Milk, with Bread and Potatoes. Thursday. — Potato Soup, with Beef and Bread. Friday. — Sowens and Milk, with Bread after. Saturday. — Barley Broth, with Potatoes and Bread. Nothing between diets, except when the boys are engaged in extra work. Abstract of the Income and Expenditure for year ending 31st May 1872. Dinner. Supper. Bread and Milk. Income of the Year. 1. Interest on Loans, 2. Produce of Garden and Grounds, 3. Income Tax returned, 4. Miscellaneous, . £1710 10 3 87 9 9 29 12 1 17 6 0 £1844 18 1 Discharge. 1. Salaries and Wages, 2. Superannuation Allowances, 3. Furnishings, Eepairs, etc., 4. Outlays for Garden and Grounds, 5. Feu Duty, Police Assessment, and Fire £415 10 0 75 0 0 52 14 3 29 17 101 Insurance, 6. Stationery, etc., 7. Food, . 8. Clothing, . 9. Fuel, Light, and Water, . 10. Expenditure for Apprentice Fees, etc., 11. Miscellaneous Payments, 89 13 6 29 16 9 689 16 9 287 1 3| 104 13 10 122 5 7 77 11 6 1974 1 4 Excess of Expenditure over Income £129 3 3 SAMUEL DOUGLAS' FREE SCHOOL. 751 SAMUEL DOUGLAS' (FORMERLY OP THE ISLAND OF JAMAICA) FREE SCHOOL, NEWTON- STEWART. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. Date of Mr. Douglas' will, 2d August 1798, with codicil 8th January 1799 — Proved 10th May 1799. The said Samuel Douglas, of Jamaica. 2. 4 For the establishing a Free School, to be named Samuel Douglas' (formerly of the Island of Jamaica) Free School, the interest thereof [of £10,000] to be applied to and for the education, board, and clothing of ten or twelve, or as many as the interest of the said fund can support, indigent children of honest and respectable parents, born in the parishes of Kirkmabreck and Penninghame ; also said Institution " shall be left open to be improved and extended by voluntary donations or legacies." 9 — Copy of Will in my hands. 3. The capital sum left was £10,000, but in consequence of bank- ruptcy of original executors a good deal less was recovered. The sum recovered was invested in land, and the funds well husbanded, till they now amount to £12,000 clear, invested on heritable bond. The present gross and net annual revenue is that sum at 4 per cent., less income-tax — £480 per annum. There is also the house, school, and buildings (well enclosed), which cost about £2500, and three acres of land sur- rounding, a present from the Earl of Galloway. 4. The will of Mr. Douglas above. Rev. Wm. M'Lean, Thomas Gray, William M'Guffog, and Andrew M'Fadzean, the Minister and three oldest acting Elders of Parish of Penninghame ; and Rev. John Colvin, James Irving, James Martin, and Alexander SloaD, the Mini- ster and three oldest acting Elders of Parish of Kirkmabreck. 5. No. 6. By the will of Mr. Douglas. They are perpetual Trustees and Governors. 7. Every control. A committee of their number (changed every six months) visits the School and Establishment regularly, at intervals of not more than a month. 8. Yes. 9. Boys, 12 ; girls, none. They arc all 1 indigent children of honest and respectable parents,' born in Penninghame and Kirkmabreck, in terms of the will. 10. None. 11. Chosen by Trustees as vacancies arise. 12. 13. Enter, not under four nor above ten, and continued for four years. 14. None, except that they must be 4 indigent children of honest and 752 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. respectable parents,' born in said two parishes. None, except that they must be in good health. 15. Yes ; in the Trustees. 10. They are sent out well clothed, and Trustees uso their best en- deavours to place the boys at business, and hitherto successfully. 17. None. 18. None ; but at the day-school, and paying school fees, there are scholars. Table of fees filed herewith, and follows : Table of Fees. Junior Classes, ..... 4s. and 5s. per quarter. Third Class, . . . . . 6s. „ Second Class, . . . . . 7s. 6d. „ First Class, 10s. 6d. „ The above include the higher branches. 19. No. 20. A statement of the Treasurer's Accounts for the last year (to Martinmas 1872) is filed herewith. The accounts are audited at in- tervals by the Trustees, who carefully examine the same, compare them with the vouchers, and docquet them. The Treasurer keeps an account in Bank, in name of the Trust, into which all sums are paid as received, and to which all sums are debited as paid ; so that he never has any sum on hand as due by him, or any sum paid out as due to him. Statement of Accounts for last year. I. Income. By Interest received on Invested Capital, £467 19 4 [Memo. — £2000 was in Bank till Whitsunday last, waiting investment, when it was invested ; so that the income is, in consequence, a little less than it will be in future.] II. Expenditure. Creetown Trustees' expenses of attending meetings of trust at Newton-Stewart, £2 12 G Allowance to Nephew of Founder, in destitute circum- stances, 3s. 6d. per week, 9 2 0 Insurance on Building, 30s. ; Poor Bates, lis. 6d. ; Property- Tax, 7s. 6d. ; Road Money, 2s. 6d. ; County Kates, 4s. Id., 2 15 7 Keep of Grounds, etc., 10 14 G Master's Salary (at £80 per annum), and Board, Clothing, and Education of 12 Boys (at £22 each per annum, £2G4), 314 0 0 Advance for Outfit of two Boys leaving Hospital, . . 5 0 0 Printing and Advertising, 2 0 0 Mason's Account for Repairs and Rebuilding Well (greater part of this exceptional), 15 2 4 Rev. W. M 'Lean's Receipt for Preaching Sennons to Boys under Will, 4 4 0 Medical Officer's Allowance for Attendance and Medicines per annum, 600 Factor's Salary, £15 per annum ; Treasurer's, £10; Postages, Incidents, etc., for year, 6s., 25 6 0 Repairs on Clock in Tower, and cleaning same (greater part exceptional), .... 500 Carryforward, £431 16 11 £467 19 4 SAMUEL DOUGLAS' FREE SCHOOL. 753 Brought forward, £431 16 11 £467 19 4 Murray & Beith, W.S., half expenses of recording- old Deed, as per agreement, . . . 3 2 6 Factor's expenses (outlays) in visit to Edinburgh to settle transactions as to uplifting .€10,000 loan and investing £12,000, ' . 3 8 2 Mr. Lyon, S.S.C. His account in relation to loan, . . 0 10 0 Seat for Boys in Parish Church, 110 Allowance for Prizes, . .. 2 10 0 Outfits for two Boys put on Foundation, £3, 18s. 4d. and £9, 8s. Id., 13 6 f, Interest to Bank on Overdrawn Account, . . . . 5 10 11 Income-Tax for year, 8 12 9 By Balance, 1 19 4 £469 18 8 £469 18 8 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, 12 ; girls, none. 2. None. There are no such 4 Foundationers ; ' there are boys and girls attending the day-school who belong to the town and neighbour- hood. 3. Yes. 4. Every reasonable freedom and liberty, same as a child of the family. Six weeks' holidays in summer, and a week or ten days at Christmas. Parents can visit pupils at discretion. 5. Only the ordinary of a school or family ; corporal punishment seldom given. The Master, under the Trustees. No. 6. No. 7. They live in family with the Master and his wife and family, eat at the same table, and by day and night have that supervision which pupils and members of a family have. They are well attended to. . 8. 21 feet long, 20 feet broad, 15 feet high, 525 feet (cubical) — twelve in this dormitory. 21 feet long, 10J feet broad, 15 feet high, 550 feet (cubical) — six in this dormitory. Each pupil has separate bed. 9. The usual of pupils at schools. Yes. Including garden, about three acres. 10. Every provision. There are baths, and lavatories, and W.C's, and the whole sanitary arrangements are good. 11. None has died in the Institution during that period, or since it was opened in 1832. 12. Twenty-four hours' time-table and dietary scale for a week fded herewith, and follow : Time-Table (Twenty-Four Hours). 7-8. 8-9. 9-4. 4-6. 0-0.15. G.15-S. 8-8.30. 8.80-9. 9-7. Dressing and Rev i sal of Lessons. Prayers, Break- fast, and Recrea- tion. As per Instruc- tion Time- Table. Recre- ation. Supper. Prepara- tion of Lessons. Recre- ation. Prayers, and Prepara- tion for Bed. Sleep. .*» B 754 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Dietary Scale for a Week. Breakfast. Porridge with Milk. Dinner. Soup or Broth with Butcher Meat, Bread or Potatoes, Vegetables when in season. Afternoon. Piece of Bread and Butter. Supper. Porridge with Milk, or Tea. III. Instruction. 1. The Foundationers are 4 indigent children of honest and respectable parents.' Four sons of widows, — one of a sailor, one of a baker, one of a mason, etc. 2. They are prepared for trade and mercantile pursuits. 3. Instruction time-table filed herewith. (See p. 755.) SAMUEL DOUGLAS' FREE SCHOOL. 755 4-4.30. Drawing. Drawing. 2-3. 3-4. Junior Classes. Senior Latin. Junior Classes. Drawing. Junior Classes. Senior Latin. Junior Classes. Senior Latin. Junior Classes. Drawing. Arithmetic. 6 Q 6 P d P d P Interval for Dinner. 12.10-1. French. Mental Arithmetic. Bookkeeping. Chemistry and French. French. Mental Arithmetic. German. Dictation. History of English Language. French, German, and Bookkeeping. Interval for Recreation. 11.30-12. Religious Knowledge. d P d P d P d P 10-11.30. Senior English. Junior Writing. d P d P d P d P 9.30-10. Junior English. Senior Writing. 6 P d P d P d P 9-9.30. Euclid and Junior Latin. Euclid and Greek. Euclid and Junior Latin. Euclid and Greek. Euclid and Junior Latin. Monday. Tuesday. < « By ft M Thursday. < ft 756 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. 4. English — Books of Milton, Dryden's Virgil, Scott's Lady of the Lake, have been analyzed, etc. British History (Collier's) to Anne has been learned, also history of English Literature. Physical Geography (Chambers') got up. Science — Chemistry (M'Adani's), Botany, and Animal Physiology (Chambers'); Euclid, six books. Algebra to Equa- tions, inclusive. Arithmetic — Higher Rules, Mental Arithmetic, Book- keeping (Chambers'). Drawing (Freehand), etc. Languages : French — Moliere, Mercantile Correspondence in French ; Latin — first book of Virgil and first book of Caesar; Greek — S.S.B.A., first book ; German — Ahn's Course. 5. Selected books of Old and New Testament, and Shorter Catechism, are used. Sunday time-table filed herewith. Sunday Time-Table. 8-9. 9-11. 11-12.15. 12-2. 2-3. 3-5. 5-6. 6-8.30. 8.30-9. Break- fast and Prayers. Reading Religious Lessons for School. Prepar- ing for Church. Church. Dinner and Walking in Grounds. Read- ing Re- ligious Books. Tea. Church or Religious Instruc- tion from Teacher/ and Prayers. Prepar- ation for Bed. 6. Ten. Some of the lower classes are small, which reduces the average. Proficiency. Yes. By marks. 7. Two. 32 feet long, 22 feet broad, 15 feet high ; the other is 21 feet long, 1 5 feet broad, and 8 feet high. 78 in former, and 25 in latter. No library ; pupils have the use of a good library in town. 8. The Trustees. He instructs all the classes. Tenure of office per- manent, as far as the Trustees can guarantee it. He exercises full con- trol over assistants, whom he employs and pays. 9. Thomas Findlay, Head Master, salary £80, school fees £60. He is likewise supposed to have profits from boarders and foundationers. Emily Hinds, Drawing Teacher, paid by fees. Miss M. Good, Sewing Mistress, paid by Head Master. 10. No. 11. No. 12. The pupils are examined annually by the Trustees and all the clergymen of the district. The Trustees also visit the School occasion- ally, and note the progress of the pupils. They also infer, from its being the largest attended middle-class school in the locality, the pupils being almost all drawn from the town and neighbourhood, that the public are satisfied as to its efficiency. 13. No record has been kept of pupils who have gone to the Uni- versity. Prior to 1870 there were few or no day-scholars for three or four years. At last Edinburgh University local examinations, senior candidates (boys), the first place was taken by a boy from this School. 14. Three foundationers have left during the last two years. Two are in the countiug-house of a large mercantile firm in Edinburgh. They were selected after examination out of a large number of candidates, and the third is apprenticed to a draper in the town. SAMUEL DOUGLAS' FREE SCHOOL. 757 General. (1.) Public intimation is given of vacancies on the foundations, and the most eligible boys are appointed. (2.) A limited number of boarders of n superior class are now admitted on payment. The Trustees are of opinion that these will have a tendency to improve and elevate the foun- dationers. (3.) The Trustees, primarily to benefit the district, but also that the foundationers may not be brought up to a monastic habit of life, admit day-scholars. Alexander Waugh, National 13ank of Scotland, Newton-Stewart. 26tk January 1873. [Mem. — The answers under the head ' III. Instruction ' are furnished by the Master of the School, as also the schedules filed herewith.] 758 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. BROOKLANDS INSTITUTION. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. George Charles Jones, Esq. of Brooklands. His trust-disposition and settlement is dated 31st May 1834, with codicils or relative writings attached, dated 31st March and 4th November 1834. He died on 7th November 1835. 2. The whole residue of his property, heritable and moveable, was, after his wife's death, — which Jias happened, — to go for the establishment and support of a ' charitable and religious institution,' as mentioned in the said settlement and relative writings. The terms of the founder's settlement are contained in a statement for the information of the official Trustees, prepared by Mr. Black of Wigtown, sometime agent for the Trustees, dated in October 1870, forwarded to Mr. Laurie, the Secretary, on 5th March 1873. The said trust-disposition and settle- ment and relative writings are recorded in the books of Council and Session on 10th March 183G. There are no statutes or ordinances on the subject. 3. He left the lands and estate now known as Brooklands, in the parish of Kirkpatrick-Durham and stewartry of Kirkcudbright, now rented at £253, 10s. ; and the residue of his personal estate, after having expended £1096 in erecting a building for the purposes of the Institution and in the necessary furnishings, at present amounts to £379, lis. 6d., of which £299 is invested in the debenture stock of the Glasgow and South-Western Railway Company, and £84, 18s. 6d. at credit of Trustees in account with the National Bank of Scotland at Castle-Douglas ; but of this sum £4, 7s. is due to the factor. The net annual revenue is about £180. 4. The constitution of the trust is contained in the said trust- settlement and relative writings. The estate and funds are now held by the Rev. Andrew Laidlaw, minister of the parish of Kirkpatrick- Durham ; John Fergusson of Kilquhamty ; Mrs. Eliza Esther Murray Dunlop of Corsock ; Mrs. Margaret M'Adam Gordon, wife of Samuel Gordon of Craigadam; Archibald Hume of Doonpark; Sir William Maxwell of Cardoness, Bart.; James Forrest, Esq. of Brockloch ; Thomas Boyd Dick of Barncailzie ; and James M'Queen of Crofts, — being the heritors within the said parish possessed of the yearly rental of £200 sterling ; and James Thomson, joiner at Bridge of TJrr, and Robert Carruthers of Crocketford, two elders of the parish, — being the minister and elders and heritors who have accepted the trust. 5. No. 6. They are appointed under the said trust-disposition and settlement. 7. They have unlimited control over the Institution and its whole management. 8. It was deemed expedient that the chapel indicated in the settlement should be dispensed with, there being no prospect of any advantage arising from the erection of such a chapel, there being several churches already in the parish, and the testator having given his Trustees extensive discretionary powers in dealing with the affairs of the Trust. BROOKLANDS INSTITUTION. 759 0. Boys, 8 ; all of whom are fatherless and motherless. 10. None. 11. At last election there were three applicants, who were admitted. 12. They are all fatherless and motherless children from Scotland. 13. Between seven and fourteen. 14. There is no condition but that of poverty, and the children being from England and Scotland, and willing to be admitted to a Protestant institution. There is no entrance examination, except by a medical man as to health. 15. This power is vested in the Trustees. 16. They are apprenticed, and helped when first setting out in life. 17. None. 18. There are twelve to fifteen day scholars, whose parents maintain them and pay fees to the Master. There is no table of fees, but the Teacher charges, it is understood, 3s. per quarter for each scholar, who are both boys and girls. 19. No. 20. Once a year generally by the Trustees at a general meeting. Income. Eeceipts from Bents, £227 4 Eeceipts to assist in paying Outfits of Boys leaving Institution, . . 15 10 Bents received, 126 15 Interest, 6 6 Dividends on Debenture Stock, 11 15 £387 2 Expenditure. Expenses of Management of the Institution : — 1871. June 2. Paid the Bev. Donald Boyd Quarter's Salary, in advance, to 22d August 1871, And Quarter's Board of Nine Boys to same date, etc., School Books, . Medical Account, ] Aug. 21. Paid the Bev. Donald Boyd Quarter's Salary to 22d Nov. 1871 And Quarter's Board of Nine Boys to same date, Nov. 27. Paid the Bev. Donald Boyd Quarter's Salary to 22d Feb. 1872,' And Quarter's Board of Eight Boys for same date, £26, less £3, 5s., which falls to be deducted for Boy overpaid last time, Dr. Macdonald's Account, Sum authorized to be paid to Mr. Boyd at last General Meeting as in full of larger claim made by him, 1872. Feb. 3. Bemitted to Thomson Leap Boys' Home, Dumfries, for Quar- ter's Board of boy Gcddes, £1, 7s., and Bank Commis- sion, 4d., „ 21. Paid the Bev. Donald Boyd for Quarter's Salary to 22d May 1872 And for Board of Eight Boys to same date, Sum erroneously deducted from last payment to him, Account for Books supplied, Nov. 27. Deduct amount claimed by Mr. Boyd, for which £1, as above, was paid to him, ] May 20. Paid the Bev. Donald Boyd his Quarter's Salary to 22d Aug. 1 872, And for Board of Seven Boys to same period, , Juno 25. Bemitted Thomson Leap Boys' Home, Dumfries, for Quarter's Board of boy Geddes, £1, lis. 6d., and Bank Commission, 4d., Aug. 12. Taid the Bev. Donald Boyd his Quarter's Salary to 22d No- vember 1872, And for Quarter's Board of Seven Boys for same period, ' £12 10 32 10 3 5 1 0 12 10 29 5 12 10 0 0 0 0 0 22 15 0 0 12 0 10 0 1 7 4 12 10 0 26 0 0 1 14 3 1 14 3 £171 3 8 1 14 3 £169 9 5 12 10 0 52 15 0 1 II Hi 12 10 i) 22 15 0 760 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Sept, 18. Remitted Thomson Leap, Dumfries, for Board of boy Geddes, £1, 10s., and Bank Commission, id., 1 10 4 Nov. 28. Paid the Rev. Donald Boyd Quarter's Salary to 22d Feb. 1873, 12 10 0 And for Board of Five Boys for same period, .... 10 5 0 For Two extra Boys admitted 25th November 1872, . . 6 10 0 Account for Books, 1 18 5 Do. for Medicines, 054 Do. for Copy Books, 0 2 2 1873. Feb. 25. Taid the Rev. Donald Boyd Quarter's Salary to 22d May 1873, 12 10 0 And for Board of Eight Boys for same period, . . . 26 0 0 £319 2 G Deduct for Absentees, 6 0 3 1871. £313 2 3 April 10. Expenses of Outfit of Boys leaving Institution, . . . 16 16 6 Insurance against Fire, 1 14 6 Annuities and Feu Duties, 20 7 1 Public and Parochial Burdens, 23 0 10 Interest, 10 0 0 Miscellaneous, 297 Expenses of General Management of the Trust, . . . 20 14 8 Total Expenditure, £408 5 5 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. I. Boys, 8. 3. No uniform, but clothed in tweeds. 4. The Institution is quite open to the pupils' friends. After school hours, or during play hours, they may pass beyond the limits. Last year they had five weeks' holidays, but these holidays were found to be pre- judicial. 5. The Master punishes the boys when necessary, and no record is kept. 6. The senior pupils revise the lessons with the junior. 7. The Master takes a general charge. 8. There is one large dormitory, about 35 feet long and 18 feet broad. The ceiling is about 10 feet in height. Number of occupants, 8 boys. Two in each bed. 9. The amusements are those usual in parish schools, and they are left quite free to enjoy them, and there is plenty of space for the purpose. 10. There are baths provided, and the sanitary arrangements are good. II. There has been only one death during the last five years, when the Institution was first set agoing. 12. (1.) Rise during winter and spring at 7.30 a.m. Breakfast at 8.30 a.m. Prayers at 9 a.m. Public school at 10 a.m. — Bible Lesson and History, Grammar, British History, and English, Reading, Geography, and Writing. Dinner at 1 p.m. School resumed at 1.40 p.m. — Arithmetic and other exercises till 3.30 p.m. The boys then get a slight refreshment, and the younger pupils repeat lessons to the senior best pupil from 4 till 5 p.m. After supper, employ such of them as are able for any light work in the garden or about the place; and if there is nothing to employ them outside, they have liberty to play, with the exception of one hour, which must be devoted to preparing lessons. Prayers at 8 p.m., and go to bed immediately thereafter. BROOKLANDS INSTITUTION. 761 (2.) Dietary Table : — ISreakJast, Dinner, Supper, O.OU A.M. 1 I> TIT I 1 . M • C x» %M 0 P.M. Sunday ."..Oatmeal porridge Broth, meat, and pota- Oatmeal por and milk. toes. ridge. Broth and potatoes Do. Potatoes or rice soup, Do. with pudding. \\ EPNESDAY, Do. Broth, and bread or Do. potatoes. Do. Meat, and potatoes or Do. vegetables. Do. Broth and potatoes. Do. Do. Potatoes and milk. Do. Meat to be fresh mutton or beef, but occasionally pork. About 4 o'clock each boy receives a piece of bread after school. In siunnier. — Dinner — Bread and sweet milk, or rice or barley boiled with milk or baked in the oven, four times a week, butcher meat twice a week, and potatoes and milk once a week when potatoes are in season. III. Instruction. 1. From paupers. Their fathers are dead, but they were labourers or tradesmen. 2. Specially instructed to be respectable tradesmen. 3. See answer to No. 12. 4. The three oldest boys were apprenticed last year. The present Foundationers are all very young, and being taught as specified in Answer No. 12. 5. The Foundationers attend the parish church with their Master on Sundays. Simple lessons from the Bible and Bible history are given. 6. The numbers are so small that the first part of this question does not require an answer. Prizes have been given hitherto by the minister of the parish, and awarded at a public examination from Teacher's marks. 7. There is a suitable class-room, about 16 feet by 16 feet, and the number of scholars about twenty. No library. 8. The Trustees appoint the Master, who takes charge of the whole school himself. He may be dismissed on six months' notice. 9. The Rev. Donald Boyd. Salary, £50 per annum, with a field con- taining nearly 6 acres of land. His whole school fees are about £7 per annum, derived from non-foundationers. 10. No. 11. No. 12. No. 14. Only four pupils have left and gone into situations since the opening of the Institution. Three are apprentice drapers, and one an apprentice printer. General. No. W. H. Lidderdale, Agent of Trustee?, Castle-Douglas. 7th March 1873. 762 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. WOOD'S SCHOOL, NBWBURN, BY LARGO. L Nature of Foundation. J. 7th July 1659. John Wood. 2. (1.) For keeping up a school, payment of the schoolmaster's salary, mid the lodging, maintenance, clothing, and education of poor scholars. (2.) No. (3.) Mr. John Flockhart, Rosebank, Largo, clerk and factor to the institution. 3. The lands of Orkie, still in possession of the Trustees. Gross revenue, per account, £407, 15s. ; net revenue, deducting public burdens, etc., £318, 17s. Id. 4. By will of the founder, the Trustees nominated are the proprietors of Balfour, Kincraig, and Drunieldry, with the Minister and Kirk-session of Drumeldry, now Newburn. The present Trustees are Admiral Bethune of Balfour ; William Baird, Esq. of Elie and Drumeldry ; Rev. W. E. C. A. Gourlay of Kincraig ; Rev. Dr. Urquhart, Minister of New- burn ; Mr. William Morgan, Coates, elder. 5. No. 6. By will of the founder. 7. Appointing the scholars, examining them yearly, inspecting their clothing, auditing the accounts, and otherwise taking charge of the pro- perty belonging to the Trust. 8. Yes. 9. Boys, 4; of whom 3 are fatherless; of whom 1, though not father- less, is a child of a necessitous family. 10. None. 11. 2 and 12. 12. One the son of an officer deceased, mother in destitute circum- stances, and the other the son of poor but deserving parents. 13. Enter from 6 to 8, and leave at 15, in terms of the will of the founder. 14. Father or mother of the surname of Wood, whom failing some poor scholar within the parish ; and failing both, the Trustees may appoint any one they think fit. There are, however, always plenty of applicants of the surname of Wood. The Trustees examine the candidates as to their general intelligence. 15. Yes. Trustees. 16. Yes. At present the Schoolmaster receives £40 yearly for the maintenance, education, and clothing of each scholar ; formerly he re- ceived a less sum. And when the Foundationers leave, they get a sum equivalent to the average amount the Schoolmaster received for their maintenance, etc., during the time they were in the institution. This sum is given in charge to a responsible party for their behoof. The maximum number of scholars in terms of the deed is 6, and when one leaves he receives the above sum, and there is a vacancy for the year. At present WOOD'S SCHOOL. 763' there are only 4 scholars in the institution, in consequence of 2 getting the retiring allowance. . , 17. None. 18. None. 18. No non-foundationers. 20. Accounts audited yearly by the Trustees at their annual meeting. State of Account between the Patrons of Wood's School and John Flock- hart, their Factor, for Year ending 12th October 1872. Charge. I. The Factor charges himself with the rents of Orkie, Crop 1871 — 1. James Thomas, Tenant of Orkie, third rent, Crop 1871, lease 19 years, money, £400 0 0 Kain delivered to Mr. Lumsden, 0 0 0 Road Money paid by the Tenant, 0 0 0 £400 0 0 2. Heirs of the late James Thomson, Grain payable from the lands of Orkie Miln for Crop 1871— Six bolls of Oats, at 17s. 4d. 7 39 ... £5 4 4* 3 " One boll of Barley, at 24s. 6d. 21 6 . . . 1 4 6 21B Half a Merk for each above Fife Fiars, . . Oil 333 6 10 0 II. Miscellaneous Receipt — 1871. Dec. 18. Received from Hugh Birrell, for two Trees sold to Andrew Thorn, 150 III. Bank Account — 1871. Nov. 9. Received from Commercial Bank, Colinsburgh, £155 0 0 1872. Sept. 6. Paid into Bank, . . . £100 0 0 Oct. 5. Do. do. . 38 6 6 138 6 6 16 13 6 £424 8 6 Discharge. I. Public Burdens — 1871. Nov. 20. Paid Alexander Keddie, Kettle, School Salary for half-year to Martinmas, less Tax, 6d., £113 „ Paid Mrs. Keddie one year's Salary as Female Teacher, to Martinmas, 077 1872. JaD. 4. Paid William Duncan Land Tax for 1871-72, .... 2 5 7 „ 8. Paid do. do. Property Tax for Orkie, 1871-72, . 9 12 6 Feb. 2. Paid Robert Kay, Kettle, Poor Rates for the year ending 11th November 1872 7 10 4 Feb. 9. Paid Alexander Keddie, Kettle, Heritor's Assessment, imposed 3d February, 0118 „ 29. Paid William Horsbrugh, Bridge Money, assessed May 1871, 0 4 2$ „ „ Paid do. do. County Rates for 1871-72, . . 4 14 6 J „ „ Paid do. do. half County Rates for School- house, .... 0 2 4£ March 4. Paid Rev. William Reid, Kettle, Stipend, Crop 1871 — Barley, 18 B. 3 F. 1 P. 0* L. at 24s. 6±d., . £16 18 104 Meal, 13 B. 0 F. 1 P. 3| L., at 19s. 7Jd., . . 12 17 2 Money, 0 7 8 Deduct Income Tax, at 6d., .... 0 15 n 29 8 7 May 7. Paid Property Tax on Orkie Miln, Teind Duty, . . . 0 8 3 ,, 15. Paid Alexander Keddie half year's School Salary to date, less Tax, 6d., 113 Carry forward, £57 3 1* 764 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. Brought forward, £57 3 1 J II. Miscellaneous Payments — 1871. Nov. 11. Paid Hugh Birrell half expense of Repairs at School-house £0 6 7 1872. Jan. 24. Paid Kohert Melville half expense of repairing Pump, and putting up Roans at Scbool-house, 2 11 2\ May 7. Paid John Honeyman half expense of repair- ing Roof of School-house, .... 0 17 11J May 15. Paid James Ness half expense of Repairing School Windows, 0 7 0| 5, 28. Paid James Thomas allowance for extra work on Orkie Steading, as per minute dated 30th October 1871 5 0 0 Aug. 6. Paid James Ness, per P. R. Lumsden, half expense of Repairs on School-house, . . 1 15 0 „ 28. Paid John Wood half increase on School and Scliool-houso to Lammas 1873, ... 040 III. Expenses of General Management — 1871. Nov. 20. Paid Commission on P.O.O. remitting Mrs. Keddie's Salary, ...... £003 1872. Jan. 4. Paid do. do. remitting Taxes to William Duncan, 0 0 7 Feb. 7. Paid do. do. remitting Poor Rates to Robert Kay, Kettle, ... 06 March 4. Paid Commission on P.O.O. remitting Stipend to the Rev. William Reid, .... 007 „ „ Paid Messrs. Leburn, Henderson, & Wilson, for business connected with Kettle Aug- mentation, 0 10 4 May 15. raid Commission remitting Salary to Alex- ander Keddie, Kettle, 0 0 3 June 12. Taid do. remitting Rev. D. Murray David Wood's Retiring Allowance, . 0 0 6 Oct. 1. Paid Factor and Clerk's Salary, including Stamps, Stationery, Travelling Expenses, etc., for the year to Whitsunday 1872, . 20 0 0 V. Retiring Bursars— 1871. Nov. 15. Paid Rev. John Murray, Lin- dores, to account of David Wood's Retiring Allowance, . £5 0 0 1872. June 12. Paid do. in full do. do. 28 3 0 Feb. 14. Paid F. R. Lumsden farther to account of Alexander Wood's Retiring Allowance, . . £5 0 0 Oct. 5. Paid do. balance of do. do. 23 16 11 IV. Mr. T. R. Lumsden and Bursars— 1871. Nov. 11. Paid F. B. Lumsden half year's Salary to date, as Master of Wood's School, . . . £40 0 0 Nov. 11. Paid F. R. Lumsden half-year's Allowance for Maintenance, etc. of Bursars, p. receipt, . 113 19 5 1872. May 15. Paid do. half-year's Salary to date, as Master of Wood's School, .... 40 0 0 „ ,, Paid do. for Maintenance, etc. of three Bursars for six months, and one for 5§f months, at £20, 79 11 3 £33 3 0 28 16 11 11 1 9£ 20 13 0 273 10 8 61 19 11 £424 8 6 WOOD'S SCHOOL. 765 Abstract of the foregoing Account. Charge. I. Rents and Grain payable for Crop 1871 — James Thomas, A'400 0 0 Heirs of the late James Thomson, . . . 6 10 0 £406 10 0 II. Miscellaneous Receipts, 150 HI. Bank Account, 16 13 6 £424 8 6 Discharge. I. Public Burdens, £57 3 1| II. Miscellaneous Payments, 11 1 9| III. Expenses of General Management, 20 13 0 IV. Mr. F. R. Lumsden and Bursars, 273 10 8 V. Retiring Bursars, 61 19 11 £424 8 6 Balance Nil. Examined and found correct. (Signed) Chas. R. D. Bethink, Chairman. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Boys, G. Only 4 at present, as formerly explained. 2. No outsiders. 3. No. 4. Entire liberty. Holidays same as school, — two months. 5. (1.) Palmies, and that very rarely indeed. (2.) The Master. (3.) No. 0. No. 7. Paternal. The boys are treated as part and portion of the Master's family. «S. (1.) 30 cubic yards; 420 cubic feet. (2.) Two. (3.) Two in one bed. 9. Ordinary school games. Entirely free. Half an acre. 10. Closets outside. The sanitary very good. 11. None. 12. (1.) Rise 7 a.m. winter, 6.30 summer. Breakfast, 8. School, \) to 12.30, with If) minutes' interval at 11. Dinner, 12.30—1. Afternoon school, 3. Play to 5. Tea, 5. Lessons, G — 8. Supper, 8. Bed at 1) p.m. (2.) Porridge and milk, breakfast. Dinner — Broth, soup, rice, butcher meat, and vegetables, daily. Tea— Bread and butter. There is no fixed dietary ; they eat and sil at Master's table, and have changes regularly all the year round. 766 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. III. — Instruction. 1. No particular class. The occupation of the fathers of the six ou the roll is and was as follows, viz. (1) farm servant ; (2) retired officer ; (3) boiler-maker ; (4) fisherman ; (5) fisherman ; (6) no occupation when he died. 2. No. 3. The bursars attend the parish school, which opens at 9 with prayer, and after which a chapter is read. 4. There is no separate class, but they join the classes in the parish school ; and in the first class the Advanced Reader of Scottish School Book Association is read, with meanings of words, roots, spellings, and parsing. Dictation daily ; geography of Continents, Great Britaiu, Ire- land, and Palestine ; the Scottish School Association Grammar, with exer- cises. Arithmetic — compound rules, simple and compound proportion, vulgar and decimal fractions. 5. (1.) Worship daily in school ; prayer and chapter read and explained ; Shorter Catechism, with explanatory notes. (2.) Rise 8 a.m. ; worship 9 ; Sabbath school, 10.30 to 12 ; church service, 12 — 2; dinuer, 2.30; an hour's walk : tea, 6 ; read library books and prepare Sabbath lessons (hymns, etc.) till 8.30 ; 9, worship, and go to bed. 6. (1.) . (2.) Yes. (3.) Daily marks in parish school. 7. (1.) Yes. (2.) Breadth, 17 ft. ; length, 28 ft, ; height, 16 ft. (77). (3.) No. 8. Heritors of Newburn parish and Trustees conjointly. One master for all. 9. (1.) £80 for Master. (2.) Life ; but liable to dismissal for misde- meanours. In addition, the Schoolmaster receives £50 per annum as salary from the heritors. 10. No. 11. Trustees examine the boys at their annual meeting. 12. No. 13. None gone direct to the University. 14. No list kept formerly, but since the present Teacher's appointment a list is being kept as the boys leave. General. About four years ago the Trustees took the opinion of the present Lord Justice-Clerk, then Dean of Faculty, and the present Dean, and have since been guided by it, Alexander Urquhart, D.D., Newburn Manse, Largo, Fife. 6th March 1873. SPEYSIDE CHARITY SCHOOL. 767 SPEYSIDE CHARITY SCHOOL. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1795. Dr. Gregory Grant. 2. 4 For the reception, maintenance, clothing, and education of such orphan and other children, from the age of 7 till the age of 13, whose parent or parents may be unable to support them, as should be elected by the Trustees and Governors/ None. From the Secretary. 3. £4,368, 6s. 8d. In Bank of England 3 per cent, stock. Present annual revenue about £300. 4. Decree of the Court of Chancery. The Ministers for the time being of Cromdale, Abernethy, Duthil, Inverallan, and Knockando, along with five elected Trustees. The present re-elected Trustees are the Earl of Seafield, Yiscount Reidhaven, James Edward, M.D., Donald Grant, Esq., and John Smith, Esq. 5. No. 6. Five are ex-officio Governors, who elect other five. 7. They appoint a Committee of Management out of their own number, who give counsel and advice to the Secretary when such are required. 8. Yes. 9. Boys, 12 ; girls, 10 ; of whom 12 are fatherless ; of whom 10, though not fatherless, are children of decayed and necessitous families. 10. None. 11. Six. 12. All were elected in accordance with the founder's intention. 13. Enter at 7. Leave at 13. 14. No. No. 15. Yes. In the Governors. 16. No. 17. None. 18. None. 20. Accounts audited yearly by a committee of the Governors. ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. s GO ■a c O H o 02 oowj w m -m c r- 1 rH X U3 U X •? " M 5 f- I - cc —i - a x : • o o © © © © <# cc >Q CM © CO l-» © rH CM CM CM O X (O o :i r5 © o _ o o © © ,3 © £p4 2 « S © tT^ O CO © -fl «5 o o ft 5 j * 3 o C «j c^ 60 w ■y s c s © a ^--x: 3.2*2 § « 1 U hJ W W Ph £ a « *— t I— I P* JT ^1 © I- © © 3 cm >o © © © «a © H a 2 ° T3 fl CD so © -u 11 £ ° t-i CO — CO © q S t3 © © -e > * c -3 ,s - 55 tJD a. 2 O CQ © "O © C OT © ■» O 1 >- 2 © © r*»,a a ®1 5^ © « So © © t>-» ^ W « "is s? b 2 •5S 1 ■£% s ^ o © ^3 T3 .tS . © » © o fr- ^ a o ill 8 S w 2 © o o a c -2 § > ° '£ ©So ^3 es © e>4 >J SO *rH SPEYSIDB CHARITY SCHOOL. 769 II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. I. Boys, 12 ; girls, 10. 3. Yes. 4. Varies according to circumstances, but there is generally great freedom. The children attend the public school along with other children, so that they are not confined to the grounds of the Institution. 5. Such punishments as are usual in families. The Matron punishes, except when the fault is of more than ordinary gravity. No. 6. No. 7. They are under the supervision of the Matron, and are treated very much as if they were children of one family. 8. The .dormitories are 20£ feet by 17 feet. Height 10 feet. The pupils sleep two in a bed. 9. The amusements common at school. Yes. Three-quarters of an acre. 10. Besides the ordinary bedroom provisions, there is a bath-room. Yes. II. No death within the last ten years. 12. No time-table, as the children attend school. No fixed dietary scale. Porridge and milk the usual breakfast. Beef and broth four times a week for dinner in winter. Coffee, with bread and butter, for supper, when milk is scarce. III. Instruction. 1. From the schoolmaster's children to those of the day labourer. 2. No. 3. No time-table. 4. Text-books used by the more advanced scholars are — the Advanced Reader, published by W. Collins, Sons, & Co., Anderson's Geography, Collins' English Grammar, Trotter's Arithmetic. 5. Such training as that given by God-fearing parents to their children. On Sunday the children attend the Parish Church and the Sunday School. 7. Sitting-room is 20 J feet by 17 feet. No library. 8. No Governor. Matron appointed by the Trustees. 10. No. 12. No. 13. None. Genekal. No. Uth March 1873. H. D. Macqueen, Manse of Inverallan, Grantown. 770 ENDOWED SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) COMMISSION. MUIRHEAD'S HOSPITAL, DUMFRIES. I. Nature of Foundation. 1. 1753. James and William Muirhead. 2. The maintenance, education, and guardianship of destitute orphans, the furnishing of an" asylum to aged and helpless inhabitants of either sex when they fall into poverty ; also pecuniary relief for a limited number of poor and elderly widows as out-door pensioners. 3. ;Rents, £181 2 0 "* Interest of money,* . . . . 161 2 7 Donations and Subscriptions, ... . . 45 0 0 £387 4 7 4. Eight of the Town Council of Dumfries ; eight of the Kirk-session of Dumfries ; eight of the community of Dumfries — the Provost, chair- man. 5. No. 6. By the Town Council, Kirk-session, and subscribers. 7. The whole control, according to the will of the founders. 8. Yes. 9. Boys, 10 ; of whom all are fatherless. 10. None. 13. Boys 7 years, and leave at 14. 14. None excepting deserving poor. 15. Yes. In the Directors. •17. None.' 18. None. 20. Accounts audited once a year by the Directors. II. Domestic Arrangements and Discipline. 1. Ten boys. 2. None. 3. No. 4. Every day. 5. None. 6. No. 7. By the Matron and servant, assisted by one of the male inmates. 9. Various. Large garden-ground and park adjoining the house. 10. Every provision. Sanitary arrangements good. 11. Two. * Principally from money on bond to the town of Dumfries . MUIRHEAD'S HOSPITAL. 771 III. Instruction. 1. All orphans from the poorer classes. 2. No. 3. Educated at a school in the town, and paid for same as the other pupils. 5. Established Church and Sabbath schools. 7. Sufficient library for the wants of the inmates. 9. None. 10. No. 13. None. General. No. Alex. Tibbetts, Treasurer, Union Street, Dumfries. Ibth February 1873. MURRAY AND GIBB, EDINBURGH, PRINTERS TO HER MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE. f ) * jc*'' V » T'- I f«f f-l.