•"« •Av 3 4t^ 1/^ ■^Mr:- > #^» ■(f® *«» ^rl>A i 75 ?j 63 ?> 70 ?> 79 5? in them, say Nonconformists have provided ^' so many sittings ' for public worship, wliich proves they have '' so many members." William. This is an easy way of increasing a denomination — but there will be a heavy day of reckoning for tiiem when the actual number becomes known. James. Just so. And that is why they fight so vehemently aorainst a real rehVious Census. Williani. But after all do not Nonconformists set a worth>- example to the Church, by voluntarily paying for their own ministers and their services, whilst your Clergy are paid by endowments, so that you have to pay nothing ? Jauies. There again you are greatly mistaken. Churchmen give vast sums yearly for the support of the Church. For the last forty years they have given 1,000,000/. every year for Church building and Church restoration. In 1877 they gave b20,034/. foi* voluntary schools, whilst the same year all the Dissenters only subscribed 104,930/. for this purpose. So that probably in addition to her endowments the Church raises yearly by volun- tary subscriptions as much as all the Dissenters give for the support of their religious worship. William. Then the Church has a great voluntarj^ system of her own. James. Without doubt she has. And remember she oiFers the ministrations of the Gospel to all the English poor without money and without price. Whereas Noncoriformity, with rare exceptions, only ministers to those who can aiford to pay for their seats. William. Why do so many Churchmen object to Dissenting ministers burying the dead with their own services in the Parish Churchyard ? James. For two reasons. First, because they openly tell us they want to get into our Churchyards, in order to get after- wards into our Churches ; next, because the Churchyards have been consecrated and solemnly set apart for Church services, and to bring alien services into them would greatly offend the consciences of many Churchmen ; and, lastly, because the law has provided means by which Dissenting ministers can bury their dead with their own services in every localit}-, if they wish to do so. William. But did not Nonconformists, some years ago, say their consciences forbad their burying in your Churchyards or using your Churches, and that therefore it was very unjust to make them pay Church rates ? James. Yes ; and they agitated till by the aid of Irishmen and Scotchmen in Parliament they got Church rates abolished. And now, wlien the whole expense of maintaining the Churca- yards falls upon Churchmen, they want to force their services into our Churchyards against the wish of the vast majority of Churchmen, and all the while they call themselves the advocates of religious liberty. Willia7n. But are Protestant Nonconformists willing to ally themselves with Irish Roman Catholics to pull down the old National Church? James. Certainly. The}^ have no hope of destroying the Establishment without it. They will have to make a bargain with the Irish Home Rulers to join them in pulling down and robbing the National Church, and a heavy price the Irishmen will demand for their share in the w^ork. William. I don*t think Englishmen will ever stand this. I am, as you know, a Nonconformist myself, but I should both work and vote against the destruction of the Establishment by Irish Roman Catholic votes. James. And I believe many other honest and straightforward Nonconformists, when they understand what this agitation for Disestablishment will end in, will do the same thing. William. Anyhow, I have heard enough to prevent my voting for any Disestablishment candidate this election ; and 1 shall go now and talk the matter over with some of mv friends, and tell them a bit of my mnid. James. There will be many more who will come to that way of thinking if you tell them all the talk we have had together. Printed for the Church Defence Institution, St. Stephen's Palace Chambers, i), Bridge h>treet, Westminster, S.W.