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Author: 
 
 Philadelphia. Councils. 
 Railroad Committee. 
 
 Title: 
 
 The trolley system 
 
 Place: 
 
 Philadelphia 
 
 Date: 
 
 1892 
 
MASTER NEGATIVE # 
 
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 PRESERVATION DIVISION 
 
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 ORIGINAL MATERIAL AS FILMED - EXISTING BIBLIOGRAPHIC RECORD 
 
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 P534 
 
 Philadelphia. Councils. Railroad connittee. 
 
 The trolley systenu Stenographic report of 
 testlmonQr of experts and arguments of Rufas 
 Shapley and Jolm 6* Johnson before Railroad 
 cooHittee of Councils, Mar. 14th ani Mbo*. 16th, 
 1B92. Philadeljihia, Allen, Lane & Scott's 
 print, house, 1892. 
 
 146 p« 
 
 1. street-railroads - Philadelphia. 2. Phila- 
 delphia - Rapid transit. 
 
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The Trolley SystenL 
 
 STENOGRAPHIC REPORT 
 
 OF 
 
 TESTIMONY OF EXPERTS 
 
 AND 
 
 ARGUMENTS 
 
 OF 
 
 AND 
 
 JOHN G.JOHNSON, Ksq., 
 
 Before Railroad Committee of Councils, Monday, March 
 i4th» and Wednesday, March iGth, 1892. 
 
 PHILADBI.PmA: 
 Ai^i^BN, Lanb & ^cott's Printing Housb, 
 229-231-233'^uth Fifth Street. , ' 
 1892. 
 
intiieCttpofllotilloik 
 
 THE LIBRARIES 
 
 SCHOOL OF BUSINESS 
 
The Trolley System 
 
 STENOGRAPHIC REPORT 
 
 OF 
 
 TESTIMONY OF EXPERTS 
 
 AMD 
 
 ARGUMENTS 
 
 OF 
 
 RUFUS E. SHAPLEY, Esq., 
 
 AND 
 
 JOHN G. JOHNSON, Esq., 
 
 Before Railroad Committee of Councils, Monday, March 
 14th, and Wednesday, March i6th, 189a. 
 
 ALLEN, ULVTBA PRIfftlNG HOUSE, 
 
 • • • 
 
INDEX. 
 
 PAGE. 
 
 TBsipfONY OF Experts j 
 
 2. Lbttbrs from Mayors, Heads of Departments, Insur- 
 
 ance Brokers (and others), of cities where Trolley 
 System is in actual operation 95 
 
 3. Argument of Rufus E. Shapley, Esq 107 
 
 4. Argument of John G. Johnson, Esq 121 
 
 5. List of over two hundred cities and large towns in 
 
 WHICH Trolley System is in actual operation, showing 
 names, street-railway companies, number of electric 
 
 CARS used, and mileage OF EACH 140 
 
 t t ' € 
 
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 • • t • 
 
 r 
 
 MEETING OF THE COUNCILS COMMITTEE 
 
 In the Matter of the Application of the Philadelphia 
 Traction Company to Apply the Trolley System, 
 
 TESTIMONY OF MR. HAYNES, MAYOR OF 
 
 NEWARK. 
 
 Monday, March 14th, 1892, 2 P. M. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. Will you please state your experience with the trolley 
 system ? 
 
 A. We have over three hundred thousand inhabitants, with 
 
 a number of streets eight rods in width, twenty-feet side- 
 walks on either side of the street, and ninety-two feet from 
 curb to curb. They talked of an electric road in such a way 
 that caused me a great deal of anxiety. At my own expense 
 I have visited a||||p|ber of cities where these roads are in 
 operation. Four years zigo I was in Richmond. I visited 
 Boston, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and Chicago, where they have 
 a different system — where they have the cable system. They 
 talked about rapid transit. Rapid transit there means going 
 fast around the comer on the main street, and I think the 
 record has been there that they killed about one man a week 
 for the past year. That is in Chicago, with the cable system, 
 not with the electric. Everything that has been said by the 
 mayor of Boston I can vouch for by my personal knowledge. 
 I went there, not under the guidance of the electric people, 
 but simply to ride over the road. There was a portion of 
 
 (3) 
 
4 
 
 that road, not any part that was run by the undei^ound sys- 
 tem — the slot — the conduit underneath. When they reached 
 about the Albany and Boston Depot they come into opera- 
 tion and run through a built-up portion of the city. That 
 was abandoned. There were blockades about as frequently 
 as you find in your own road here when a cable has broken a 
 strand and you are obliged to stop. I have seen, on some 
 visits here, where there would be two or three blocks of cars 
 stopped. The overhead system is run on the outskirts of the 
 city at about fifteen or twenty miles an hour. Here is an 
 answer to a set of questions that we sent to the mayor of 
 Rochester and he was requested to answer them, and I give 
 them just exactly as he has answered them. I will ask the 
 clerk to read them. 
 
 Q. Would the people of Rochester revoke the trolley 
 franchise and revert to horse-cars ? 
 
 A. No. 
 
 Mr. Haynes : — I would answer the same as to Newark. 
 
 Q. Has property adjacent to overhead electric roads de- 
 preciated in value ? 
 A. No. 
 
 Mr. Haynes : — I would answer the same as to Newark. 
 Q. Does the fire department encounter obstacles in its 
 work? 
 
 A. Not often ; the wires being in the centre of the street. 
 Mr. Haynes: — I would answer the same as to Newark. 
 Q. Have there been any deaths due directly to the over- 
 head wires ? 
 A. No. 
 
 Mr. Haynes : — I would answer the same as to Newark. 
 
 Mr. Haynes: — There has been no loss of human life. 
 Horses have been killed. 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 Q. How many in Newark ? 
 
 A. Very few. 1 have not a copy of the record. There 
 
 was one killed the last snow storm, where one of the wires 
 fell and killed a horse. 
 
 Q. How many miles of the trolley system have you in 
 Newark — about twenty, are there not ? 
 
 5 
 
 A. I think Springfield Avenue has four miles double track. 
 I think the rapid tracks has about eight miles, and now, re- 
 cently, we have opened another from the city of Orange to 
 Market Street Depot. 
 
 Q. That is about twenty-four miles ? 
 
 A. I think it is about that — double track. 
 
 Q. How long have you had the trolley in Newark? 
 
 A. Over two years. 
 
 Q. You say there has been no person killed ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Any fires caused by it ? 
 
 A. Not to my knowledge. 
 
 Q. Any increase in the rate of insurance ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Any depreciation in the value of property ? 
 A. An increase, on the contrary. 
 
 Q. Has it been proved a failure in the estimation of the 
 bulk of the people at Newark ? 
 
 A. No, sir. They are clamoring for more. 
 Q. Would they turn it out if they could ? 
 
 A. No, sir. You would have an insurrection. I would 
 not like to sign an ordinance to repeal it. 
 By Mr. Lockwood : 
 
 Q. Those horses were killed by the electric wire ? 
 A« Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What would have been the result if an individual had 
 been there ? 
 
 A. I have heard parties say they have taken the whole 
 force. They informed me they have taken hold of five hun- 
 dred voltage. 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. What are the names of the streets upon which this sys- 
 tem exists in Newark ? 
 
 A. From the Pennsylvania Railroad Depot at Market 
 Street through to Irvington, about four miles. This passes 
 through Market Street with the poles standing in the centre. 
 
 Q. What is the width of Market Street where these wires 
 run ? 
 
6 
 
 A. I judge from curb to curb ; it was originally laid out 
 the same as Broad Street, but there has been encroachments, 
 which would reduce it to the neighborhood of eighty feet 
 • Q. In other words, the street is about eighty feet wide ? 
 
 A. Market Street? 
 
 Q. Yes. 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What other streets are there ? 
 
 A. Washington Street, I -think, is four yards wide. 
 
 Q. How many feet wide is that ? 
 
 A. About sixty-six feet. 
 
 Q. From Orange how wide is it ? 
 
 A. Through Central i\venue — it would be about the same — 
 a little wider than Market Street. 
 Q. Something over eighty feet ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; or about eighty feet. 
 
 Q. Did you say that, in your judgment, the same rules 
 would apply to put such a system in a street which, from 
 curb to curb, was only twenty-seven feet wide, that would 
 apply to a street that was eighty feet wide ? 
 
 A. You would be obliged to use the same system, but this 
 must have the poles that have been spoken of on the side- 
 walk. 
 
 Q. Do you think it would be equally desirable to have it 
 in a street that was twenty-five feet wide from curb to curb 
 as in one that was eighty feet wide ? 
 
 A. No. There in the eighty-foot street you would have 
 two tracks — two tracks on the wide street. 
 
 Q. Would you advise, if you were a citizen of Philadel- 
 phia, with your experience in Newark, the placing of that 
 system in streets that are twenty-five feet wide from curb 
 to curb ? 
 
 A. If you wish rapid transit. 
 
 Q. Tell me whether, in your judgment, you would advise 
 that or not ? 
 
 A. I would advise it over anything I know of at present. 
 I would advise the electric method of propelling cars where 
 you have but a single track. 
 
 7 
 
 Q. Would you advise, in your judgment, as a citizen, the 
 adoption of such a system where the streets were only twenty- 
 five to twenty-seven feet wide ? 
 
 A. You have only one track. 
 
 Q. Can you answer my question ? 
 
 A. I would advise it where you have one track. I would 
 recommend where you have one track. 
 
 Q. You speak of obtaining rapid transit. Do you believe 
 that in a stfcct which is only twenty-five to twenty-seven 
 feet from curb to curb that you could obtain more rapid 
 transit than about six miles an hour with safety to the citi- 
 zens? 
 
 A. That question was raised when we first attempted to 
 propel cars by electricity. The horses were to be frightened. 
 There is not a horse at present that I have seen after a few 
 months that has paid any more attention to it than they did 
 to the horse-cars. If you are to have rapid transit without 
 some disadvantages,^you will never get it. I have been wait- 
 ing for that good time. I waited four years to see if it was 
 not practicable to obtain cars that would be run by the stor- 
 age battery. That was my object in going to Boston, going 
 to Richmond, to Pittsburgh, Rochester, Albany— different 
 places— to see if it was not possible to secure something by 
 which cars could be propelled without being obliged to use 
 the trolley S3^tem, and I found nothing. 
 
 Q. Don't you believe you could have much more rapid 
 transit in a street eighty feet wide with safety to the citizens 
 than you could get in a street twenty-five feet wide from curb 
 to curb ? 
 
 A. If you were to put one track on our streets it would be 
 just as safe where you have two tracks. 
 
 Q. You think it would be safe to run in a city built up like 
 ours is, on Chestnut Street, at a greater rate than six miles an 
 hour with safety to the citizens ? 
 
 A. I cannot say how many teams you would have, but you 
 -cannot surpass Market Street in Newark. 
 
 Q. You have in Market Street a street eighty feet wide, 
 and have drive-ways on either side ? 
 
8 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; with the poles in the middle. 
 
 Q. Could 3?ou go with safety in a street like Chestnut 
 Street any faster than six miles an hour ? 
 
 A. If you got along at six miles an hour I think you will 
 improve the transit very much here. 
 
 Q. I am not one of those persons who find very much 
 fault with the rapidity of the present systems, because I have 
 seen the difficulties which they have to contend with. What 
 I want to get you to state is whether you think it would be 
 possible to introduce any system — cable-cars, under-ground 
 electric wires, over-head wires, or any system which, in a 
 street no wider than Chestnut Street, built up as that is,, 
 which would be safe to run faster than six miles an hour. 
 That is what I want you to answer. 
 
 A. That is fast enough in the settled portions of the city. 
 But remember that we are connected with a number of cities 
 outside of our present limits that are built up, and the cars, 
 are running to-day from Orange to the Market Street Depot at 
 double the speed that the horses ran before it. I think they 
 are running at the rate of fifteen to eighteen miles an hour„ 
 and you hear no complaints from the people. 
 
 Q. Is not that through a r^ion not dense with buildings ^ 
 
 A. Through our suburbs. 
 
 Q. I am not dealing with them. I want you to give your 
 opinion, as a man of business, as a man of experience, as a 
 man who has devoted attention to this subject, as a man who 
 occupies, as I understand, a most responsible position, I want, 
 you to give your opinion as to whether you believe that oa 
 Chestnut Street it would be safe to have more rapid transit 
 of any kind ? 
 
 Mr. ShapleY: — It is not proposed to put it on Chestnut 
 Street. 
 
 Mr. Bullitt:— I apply that question to the built-up por- 
 tion of Spruce Street. 
 
 The Witness : — Six miles an hour is as much as you de- 
 sire, at first, for the cars to run. 
 
 Q. Do you think it would be, at any time, safe to rur> 
 through the built-up portions of a city like Philadelphia, upoa 
 
 a street no wider than Spruce Street, at a greater rate than 
 
 six miles an hour ? 
 
 A. I am convinced from what I have seen that those cars 
 are under more control, in many cases, than the horse-cars. 
 It can be started and stopped sooner than the majority of 
 horse-cars running in your streets, or in any other, if necessary. 
 There is one thing more, perhaps, that I might say. I believe 
 your city has many streets which, from curb to curb, admit of 
 only one track. We have a different system there. We have 
 the double tracks. I have been a great sticker upon one 
 matter. As they were holding those high at first, without 
 any compensation to the city whatever, they were permitted 
 to put them down, and the ordinance provided that they 
 should remove them from the streets on thirty days' notice. 
 I do not know of a man in the city of Newark who would 
 dare to stand up and advocate at the present time that those 
 tracks should be removed from the streets, and certainly I 
 would not sign an ordinance calling upon them to do it, be- 
 cause we see what the advantage is in securing the means of 
 rapid transit from one portion of the city to the other. They 
 are the poor man's carriages, and formerly those who rode in 
 their carriages now use the street-cars instead. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 
 Q. How far is Market Street from curb to curb — ^not from 
 building to building ? 
 
 A. I should judge in the neighborhood of fifty feet. 
 
 Q. And there are two tracks on Market Street ? 
 
 A. Double tracks. 
 
 Q. It is your principal street ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; running at right angles to Broad. 
 
 Q. It is a crowded thoroughfare ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Springfield Avenue is a wide street, is it not ? 
 A. It is a street upon which they run a double track. 
 Q. How wide is Central Avenue ? 
 A. It is about as wide as Springfield. 
 
 Q. I didn't hear the width of Springfield Avenue ? 
 A. I should judge it was, from curb to curb — there is a 
 double track on the street. 
 
lO 
 
 Q. About thirty-five feet ? 
 
 A. I couldn't say that. 
 
 Q. It has two tracks, has it ? 
 
 A. Two tracks. 
 
 Q. It is not as much as forty feet wide, is it ? 
 
 A. I couldn't say. If you will come to Newark we will 
 make the measurement, and then I can tell the actual work- 
 ing of the S3^tem better. I have not a cent of interest in the 
 road. I have accepted nothing at all from the electric rail- 
 road people. I have been to see different places to try and 
 see if we couldn't get something to avoid this bickering. I 
 am sorry to say that I found nothing, and in the conven- 
 tion that was held at Pittsburgh the actual number of houses 
 that were using this overhead or trolley system was named, 
 and the number of cars also named, and no other system of 
 compressed air or of storage battery that was running in a 
 single city at a profit. On Fourth Avenue, in New York, 
 the cars were withdrawn. Not a single one is running in the 
 city of New York at the present time. I cannot find a case 
 where there is a storage battery system, for that is the system 
 that I have been looking for. I cannot find a single place in 
 the United States where they are running with success. 
 
 Q. How long have you been mayor of Newark ? 
 
 A. Eight years on the 9th. I have another year to serve. 
 
 By Mr. Lockwood : 
 
 Q. Is there any consideration paid for the use of the 
 
 streets for any purpose — for beautif)nng them ? 
 A. I have got five per cent, of their gross receipts. 
 Q. Have you been to the city of Baltimore ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 By Mr. Bullitt: 
 
 Q. I understand you to say that on some systenii lfi Boston, 
 according to your information, there had been no loss of life? 
 
 A. I know of no human life. 
 
 Q Do you know the West End system ? 
 
 A. From the New Jerusalem ? I think that runs along the 
 new public library and Philips Brooks' church, but they have 
 abandoned that. 
 
 II 
 
 Q. They have abandoned what ? 
 
 A. The slot which was in the street connected with the 
 wire. 
 
 Q. That is now operated by an overhead trolley wire ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to apply your remark to that road as 
 well as others ? 
 
 A. I have been all over the roads in Boston. 
 
 Q. If I were to tell you that the official report made, end- 
 ing September 30th, 1891, shows that they killed fifteen per- 
 sons in the previous year and injured two hundred and thirty- 
 nine, would that be consistent with the opinion you have heard 
 about it ? 
 
 A. That is something I certainly never have heard. What 
 was it from ? Electricity or what ? 
 
 Q. I am informed by Mr. Constable that an examination 
 of the official report shows that the number of persons killed 
 and injured on that road amounted to fifteen killed and two 
 hundred and thirty-nine injured, during the year preceding 
 September 30th, 1 89 1. 
 
 Mr. Constable : — The Massachusetts Railroad Commis- 
 sionets have that report on record. I am now employed to 
 examine these various schemes, and in Boston the report now 
 is two employes, ending with the thirtieth day of September, 
 1 89 1 — two employes, three passengers, and ten people out- 
 side of them. The balance, making two hundred and fifty- 
 four, were casual, some of them, and others serious. 
 
 Mr. Haynes : — How many people were injured on the 
 horse-cars in the city of Philadelphia during the past year ? 
 
 Mr. Constable : — I have stated a matter which is on rec- 
 ord. I certainly can get from the record the statement that 
 you desire. I am giving my statement from the record, and 
 not from hearsay. 
 
 Mr. Shapley: — ^You say that the official records show 
 that two workmen, three passengers, and ten other people 
 were killed ? 
 
 Mr. Constable : — Yes, sir. 
 
 Mr. Shapley :— Killed by what ? 
 
la 
 
 Mr. Constable :— That is their record— by that road— 
 and that is an electric road. 
 
 Mr. Shapley :— Do you mean to stand up here and state, 
 or do you want the people to understand you as saying, that 
 those people were killed by the electric current ? 
 
 Mr. Constable :— By the West End Railroad. 
 
 Mr. Shapley : — Answer the question ; was it by the elec-- 
 trie current coming into contact with the body ? 
 
 Mr. Constable :~I wasn't there personally and saw it 
 
 Mr. Shapley : — I want to know what you mean. Do 
 you mean to tell me that that report shows those people were 
 killed by the electric current ? 
 
 Mr. Constable:— I mean to say that the State Board of 
 Electric Commissioners have on their record that those peo- 
 ple were killed on that road. 
 
 Mr. Shaplly: — Does that statement mean they were 
 killed by electricity ? 
 
 Mr. Constable:— I am stating the fact from the record. 
 
 Mr. Shapley : — Have you ever seen a record any place, 
 or a reliable report any place, of any kind, in which they say 
 any one was killed by the electric current on the trolley sys- 
 tem, with five hundred volts ? 
 
 Mr. Constable : — I have never seen one killed. 
 
 Mr. Shapley : — Did you ever see a reliable statement that 
 a man had been killed by the electrical current on the trolley 
 system ? If so, tell me where it was ? 
 
 Mr. Constable .-—No, sir; I haven't 
 
 Mr. Haynes : — Allow me to retract. Persons have been 
 killed in the city of Newark, and I can tell you how it was. 
 Two cars stopped at a crossing, guarded on the pole side. The 
 person gets out of the car going in the direction of the other 
 side, and then stops directly in front of the car here (indi- 
 cating) and the person is killed. A child ran across the street 
 and struck against the electric car. That child was not killed 
 by the electric current, however. 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. I did not intend to ask you the question whether these 
 people were killed by the electric current or not. That was 
 
 9 
 
 ^3 
 
 not my question. The question which I put to you was 
 whether you had not stated — I think you had stated — that 
 no person had been killed on that line, and therefore I put 
 the question to you. 
 
 A. It brought out this answer to the question, that nobody 
 has been killed on the cars by the electric current, to my 
 knowledge, in the city of Newark. 
 
 Q. I understood you to apply it to Boston, and I happen 
 to know this fact of which I spoke. 
 
 A. One other question was asked with regard to real estate. 
 Since the roads have been under the control of the Essex 
 Passenger Railway Company, on the road through Central 
 Avenue, it diverges in front of the Cathedral, and goes down 
 Washington Street, and those roads are to connect with the 
 Springfield Avenue Road and run on the same track. There was 
 a talk of taking up those tracks that would lead to Broad 
 Street some two or three weeks, and I had the most 
 earnest protestations against allowing the railroad people to 
 take up those tracks on account of the increase in business 
 that was on that line, because that track came to that point 
 where it was leased on the Central Avenue Road. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. When the proposition was first made to introduce this 
 trolley system into Newark, did it meet with opposition ? 
 A. It met with great opposition. 
 
 Q. Substantially the same objections to it that are made 
 to it here ? 
 
 A. I knew what the difficulty would be to put poles on 
 opposite sides of the street over seventy-five feet. I had 
 grave doubts whether, under existing ordinances, we had a 
 right to place those poles there, and hence I signed the obli- 
 • gation where the poles must be placed in the centre of the 
 street. The Honorable George Halsey opposed the matter, 
 and it was decided that he had property rights even in the 
 centre of the street. But the Legislature of New Jersey, 
 which adjourned only on Friday last, have, 1 believe, passed 
 a general law, by which those poles can be placed nearly on 
 the line of the street, or on the sidewalk. Some of us wanted 
 
14 
 
 twenty dollars for a pole here ; others were more generous, 
 they wanted ten dollars, and others wanted fifty dollars. 
 Under those circumstances, it would be almost an impossibil- 
 ity to secure the right of the road to go through the city. I 
 signed the ordinance putting the poles in the centre of the 
 street, because I believed the Mayor and Councils had the 
 control of the street. Application is already before the 
 Common Council, or the Street Commissioners, for the ex- 
 tension of this system, and there are a number of miles to be 
 operated during the coming summer by the electric system, 
 overhead wire. 
 
 Oscar D. Crosby : — 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. What is your business ? 
 
 A. I am the general manager of the railway department of 
 the Thompson-Houston Electric Company. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in the electrical railway 
 
 business ? 
 
 A. Since 1887. 
 
 Q. What does that company do in the railway depart- 
 ment ? 
 
 A. The company sells customers throughout the world its 
 electric motors, and dynamos to drive them, and, when de- 
 sired, install the plants thus sold on the property of the rail- 
 way company. 
 
 Q. By what system ? 
 
 A. By the trolley system. 
 
 Q. Does that company make storage batteries ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Why not ? 
 
 A. They do not think they could present to investors a 
 system that will invite one dollar of investment ; nor do they 
 feel that they could present the system that would carry the 
 cars over all streets that are met with in most of our cities. 
 
 Q. What is the matter with the storage battery ? 
 
 A. Its depreciation is too great. Professor Marks has 
 explained that. 
 
 Q. Take the oidinary car, such as is used in Philadelphia. 
 
 15 
 
 What would be the weight of your storage battery, what 
 would be the cost, and how soon would they wear out ? 
 
 A. The we^ht would be from three thousand to four thou- 
 sand five hundred pounds ; the cost would be something, now, 
 like $2000 for the batteries. 
 
 Q. That is irrespective of the motor ? 
 
 A. That is irrespective of the motor. It would be difficult to 
 tell the time during which they would do a regular service, 
 because they have never been so continuously in regular serv- 
 ice as to give accurate data. None have yet been made that 
 would last longer than fifteen months, and the average life 
 is about ten. 
 
 Q. Are these storage batteries used on any street railway 
 in the United States ? 
 
 A. I think they are used in Washington, and I think there 
 are three in Dubuque, Iowa. 
 
 Q. Any other place ? 
 
 A. And in a little suburb near Boston. 
 
 Q. Take the trolley system which you make. How many 
 cities and towns of the United States use it ? 
 
 A. In the neighborhood of three hundred. The number is 
 increasing day by day. 
 
 Q. Name some of the most important ones which run the 
 lai^est number of miles of track and use the largest number 
 of cars ? 
 
 A. Boston, St. Paul, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Cincinnati, 
 Qeveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Toledo, Nashville, portions of 
 Baltimore — they are not largely extended yet there ; they 
 
 have just got their rights. Brooklyn has a small road, but we 
 have recently contracted a very large sale of motors for the 
 plain streets of Brooklyn. 
 
 Q. How many miles under this contract are to be covered 
 in Brooklyn, and how many cars ? 
 
 A I do not know the number of miles, but six hundred 
 cars. 
 
 Q. How many miles approximately ? 
 A. They run say three cars to the mile, and that, roughly, 
 would be two hundred miles. 
 
Q. I am informed that your company is only one of five 
 companies engaged in the furnishing and construction of 
 these electric motors for the trolley system ? 
 
 A. Four or five companies. 
 
 Q. You have this contract for Brooklyn for six hundred cars ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How many miles of streets are covered in Boston by 
 
 the trolley system ? 
 
 A. I suppose now there are something like two hundred 
 and forty miles covered by electric wires, and the number of 
 electric cars running is about three hundred and fifty. We 
 are delivering to the West End Railway Company, which 
 controls all the cars in the city, about twenty-five to thirty 
 car equipments every week. 
 
 Q. You are familiar with Boston and its streets, and these 
 
 tines. 
 A. I am. 
 
 Q. What is the character of the streets on which they run 
 in Boston, as to width and the amount of traffic, as compared 
 with those named in this ordinance ? 
 
 A. The principal streets on which the lines run are about as 
 wide — I do not know the exact measurement — as Chestnut 
 Street. I suppose many people are familiar with Washing- 
 ton Street, which is one of our principal streets, and which is 
 not wider than Chestnut Street ; perhaps narrower. 
 
 Q. It is very much a street like Chestnut Street as to 
 travel ? 
 
 A. It is one of the most crowded streets in the country. 
 Tremont Street, which is close to Washington Street, is per- 
 haps one of the most crowded streets in the country, and there 
 they are using the electric cars every day, and about four 
 hundred thousand people are carried in that city every day, 
 and out of that something like half are carried by electric 
 cars, and the tendency is to do away with every horse-car, as 
 they are increasing their electric cars at the rate of twenty- 
 five to thirty per week. 
 
 Q. Does the trolley system in Boston run down through 
 the centre of the city or narrow streets ? 
 
 *7 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; through a large number of them— *not all. 
 Q. The West End Company you speak of is a very large 
 
 company ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Something like the Traction Company, controlling a 
 great many different lines on different streets ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It has adopted this S3^tem, or is adopting it, on every 
 
 line ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have they had the trolley system in Boston ? 
 
 A. The first cars were operated, I think, in the latter part 
 of 1888 or the early part of 1889 — somewhere along there. 
 
 Q. Take Pittsburgh. How many miles of tracks are cov- 
 ered by the trolley wires ? 
 
 A. I should have to guess at it. 
 
 Q. Approximately. 
 
 A. I should say one hundred and fifty or two hundred 
 miles. 
 
 Q. How many cars ? 
 
 A. I remember we have delivered there to two companies 
 about one hundred and fifty car equipments. There is an- 
 other line running, say, sixty ; that would be one hundred 
 and ninety; and another line running forty or fifty; say, 
 roughly, two hundred or three hundred cars. 
 
 Q. Is it not a fact that these trolley overhead wires and 
 the cars operated by the trolley system are run on Smith- 
 field Street and every street in the heart of the city ? 
 
 A. Practically, every street. 
 
 Q. I mean on the main streets, in the heart of the city. 
 Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And they run from the outskirts of that city in all 
 directions into the heart of the city ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; and into Allegheny City and Birmingham — 
 all over the city. 
 
 Q. What is the effect as to building up the outskirts of the 
 city? 
 
 A. It has been very marked in building up the outskirts 
 
 < 
 
and inducing the people to live there— canying them from and 
 to their business in the city. 
 
 Q. What is the effect in Pittsburgh and every other city 
 you know about on property along the trolley system's line ? 
 Has it depreciated or not ? * 
 
 A. r know it has not. 1 should make a rough estimation 
 of the appreciation as from twenty-five to thirty per cent. 
 
 Q. From the nature of your business, you must be familiar 
 with everything connected with the effect of this system upon 
 
 property. 
 
 A. Yes, sir; I am. 
 
 Q. Have you ever heard, outside of the letter of this sub- 
 ject recently published here, where this system has caused 
 any depreciation in the value of any property ? 
 
 A. I do not know of such cases. 
 
 Q. I find in this petition here, that it is alleged that this 
 system involves every car dangerous to life and to limb. 
 What is your inference in regard to it, derived from your 
 knowledge of all the different cities in this country with which 
 you are familiar? Is that so, or not ? 
 
 A. That is not so. There is not to-day an authentic 
 case— not a single case of a death of a human being from 
 an electric trolley wire. I myself, like other men in 
 the business, have received this current. It has been 
 pretty well explained to you by others to-day, and dif- 
 ferent in the amount of current which can go through a 
 body. The very closest and best analogy is a system of 
 ordinary distribution. Im^ine you have a pipe running 
 along this street, in which water is carried by sufficient pumps 
 at a pressure of a hundred pounds per square inch. Tap into 
 that large pipe any number of little pipes an inch in 
 diameter, and each one of these will give a certain amount of 
 pressure or current. There is enough force in these trolley 
 wires to kill all the people in this room— the whole outfit— if 
 it could get into us ; but as you cannot put into that one inch 
 pipe all the pressure in the large pipe, so it is impossible to 
 force into a human body any larger amount of pressure than 
 the joint will give. I have myself measured the resistance of 
 
 19 
 
 human bodies, and the current at a pressure of about five 
 hundred and ten units has passed through my body. It was 
 
 an uncomfortable shock. I did not like it. We people in 
 the business, who have at times to go down and handle this 
 machinery, have some regard for our own lives, and there are 
 millions upon millions of human beings who walk under those 
 wires and ride in those cars, and I know of no authentic case 
 of any one being killed. 
 
 Q. How many horses have been killed by this system ? 
 
 A. I do not know. There are cases where three or four 
 horses have been killed by the current. It may have been 
 some higher pressure than is ordinarily used, but I think 
 it is fair to say that three or four may have been killed. 
 
 Q. If any larger number than that had been killed — I 
 mean a larger number in the two hundred and thirty or two 
 hundred and fifty cities using over four thousand miles of 
 track, would you be likely to know of it ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; and as a matter of fact all of this that I hear 
 to-day reminds me of the pictures with which you are doubt- 
 less familiar — before taking and after taking. We go through 
 it every time. Three or four years ago it was the same in 
 every city we went to. That was before taking it. After 
 taking it represents that you do not hear about these things. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in the electrical business ? 
 
 A. Since 1887, in commercial business. 
 
 Q. How long have you made a study of electricity ? 
 
 A. For two or three years previous to that. I was in the 
 engineer corps of the army, and had occasion to study elec- 
 tricity as applied to torpedoes. 
 
 Q. I want to read from this petition which has been signed 
 by many people, and ask you whether or not they are true in 
 fact : " But more serious objections exists, and the use of 
 electric motors with overhead wires upon the streets of towns 
 and cities has created profound apprehension in the minds of 
 the people wherever such motors have been used or have 
 been proposed to be introduced." Is that true as to " after 
 taking " — that is, the creating of profound apprehension ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; it is just in Philadelphia as it is where the 
 
20 
 
 thing is not known. I live in Boston, and the electric cars 
 are accepted as one of the ordinary facts of existence. Tlie 
 care do not make any greater time down in the crowded parts 
 of the city, where they are interlarded with horse-cars, than 
 the horse-cars. As soon as you object to the electric cars be- 
 cause it is possible to run them on crowded streets at a high 
 ^>eed, you might as well say you object to the steam engine, 
 because it can go at sixty miles an hour and has to run 
 through such cities as Newark and Trenton, when they must 
 get down to ten miles an hour. 
 
 Q. Suppose a car started at the extreme end of Tenth 
 Street, and a passenger got on a mile or two miles below 
 Chestnut Street, to go two miles beyond, and the ride upon 
 the horse-car would take some thirty minutes. In what time 
 could he make that distance by the electric car run by the 
 trolley system, without the car being run in any manner that 
 would be dangerous ? 
 
 A. I do not know the nature of that street. I cannot tell 
 whether it is one of your crowded streets, or not. 
 Q. It is a street that is not crowded. In the early morning 
 Und evening there are a great many people on it ? 
 I^A. Twelve miles an hour are made on not overcrowded 
 streets, and I know of one city where they fix fifteen miles as 
 the speed which should not be exceeded on a street where 
 there was comparatively small traffic. 
 
 Q. Take Boston itself— take a street-car that starts down 
 m the very heart of the city— by the state-house, and that 
 runs through the built-up portion of the city for a distance, 
 say five miles. What is the average time upon horse-cars for 
 that distance ? 
 
 A. They make in the neighborhood of five or six miles in 
 about thirty minutes. 
 
 Q. What does experience prove is the time that a trip 
 could be made by an electric car? 
 
 A The schedule of one of the lines I happen to be familiar 
 with. On one of the lines in Cleveland it is nine and a frac- 
 tion miles per hour. The schedule of a great many lines, and 
 those which have a good deal of crowded traffic to support in 
 
 21 
 
 Boston, is from eight to nine miles an hour. I received a 
 telegram from Boston saying the new line out to Harvard 
 had been opened and the time had been cut down, I think it 
 was ten minutes* run between the two points, three or four 
 miles apart 
 
 Q. How do the cars that are now operated in Boston and 
 averaging that time compare with the time they made when 
 they were running the old way with horse-cars ? 
 
 A. The increase in speed may be expressed in general as 
 froni fifty to seventy-five per cent. I have run a car into the 
 city of Boston at the rate of thirty miles an hour. I run one 
 in the city of Buffalo at the rate of twenty-five miles an hour. 
 We could give you any speed you want. I have run an elec- 
 tric car one hundred and ten miles an hour. That, however, 
 is out of the question for a city. We will supply any speed 
 that will suit the purpose of the purchasing company. 
 
 Q. How about the control of the car? Can the electric 
 car, run by this trolley system, be stopped more rapidly than 
 an ordinary horse-car.^ 
 
 A. It can be stopped more rapidly, and I can explain it. 
 If you are running with a horse-car, the only thing you can 
 do to stop your car is to apply your brakes. By every method 
 you can apply just so much receding force by any system, 
 whether it is an electric-car or a horse-car. But in cases of 
 danger, where it is absolute to stop a car quickly, we have a 
 new thing to fall back on. In one instant the whole force of 
 the motor, which has been driving the car, can be turned on • 
 in the opposite direction. Therefore, as a matter of fact, if 
 children were to get in front of the car, the driver makes a 
 simple turn like that, which reverses the direction of the turn 
 of the wheel and stops the car. 
 
 Q. So, as a matter of fact, they ate safer as to dangers oc- 
 curring on tracks than the ordinary horse-car ? 
 
 A. They are. Take any given speed at which you are 
 driving a car. That means a certain momentum, a certain 
 driving force along there. That moving body can be held in 
 check better if driven by electricity than if driven by 
 horses. 
 
22 
 
 Q. I want to read the next sentence of this petition: 
 "The noise made by a car propelled in this way is exceeding- 
 ly annoying and distressing to persons residing or doing busi- 
 ness upon the lines of such improvements." What is the 
 truth as shown by actual experience ? 
 
 A. The truth is this: the way electric cars were firet made 
 they were a great deal noisier than the case is to-day. As a 
 matter of fact, to-day we can take any one of you and put 
 you in a car run by the machinery as sold now, and it will be 
 practically impossible for you to distinguish the noise of the 
 machinery which is doing the work above the general rumble 
 of the movement of the car. Of course, we cannot make a 
 car a mass of wood and iron and go over a track and make 
 it absolutely noiseless. 
 
 Q. Take the people who live along a line of a street ? 
 
 A. They simply pay no attention to it When the cars 
 were originally put in Richmond they made a great deal of 
 noise. I was the general manager of the company that made 
 the motors. Those motors were among the first that were 
 put into service, and they gave a great deal of trouble. 
 Now, as I say, the people who live along the lines of the 
 railway to-day pay no attention to it whatever. 
 
 Q. They used to use, a couple of years ago, what is called 
 the double reduction motor ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. In which the wheel run at the rate of fifteen hundred 
 revolutions ? 
 
 A. The armature, the moving part of the motor, had a 
 very high .speed, because at that time we did not know how 
 to make it lower and get the necessary force to drive the car 
 along. 
 
 Q. As I recollect, the annoyance and noise of the old- 
 fashioned motor was the whirring of the armature ? 
 A. The armature and the wheels. 
 O. That is removed ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I have heard complaints made about the hissing .sound 
 from the contact of the trolley wheel with the wire ? 
 
 23 
 
 A. That is not a hissing sound due to the contact between 
 the wheel and the trolley. I have known certain sections 
 of the trolley wire to be set in vibration. It is only a spo- 
 radic case — now and then. 
 
 Q. Are there any complaints in Boston by the people who 
 own property along the two hundred and some odd miles of 
 streets — I mean down in the central parts of the city — ^about 
 the noise ? 
 
 A. No. I am perfectly free to state that the motors put in 
 
 three years ago, like those at Richmond, were noisy; but 
 they are not now. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know what kind of a motor it is that 
 is running on the electric road in Harrisburg ? 
 
 A. They have both kinds. They have some of the old 
 ones, and I think they have some few new ones. 
 
 Q. It is stated in this petition again that the introduction 
 of this overhead wire will tend to cause fires and be danger- 
 ous to property in every way. What is the experience of the 
 different cities in this country on the subject of fires ? 
 
 A. I think I can answer that with some figures that were 
 prepared by one of the officials of the company that I repre- 
 sent, a few days ago. I have a transcript from the fire mar- 
 shal's report in the city of Boston for the years ending May 
 31st, 1888, 1889, and 1890, and for the period of eight months 
 ending January 3fst, 1891. 
 
 Q. This is the same report to which Mr. Constable referred. 
 
 A. It is the fire marshal's report. During this period of 
 nearly four years there were six thousand three hundred and 
 ninety-six fires in Boston, the causes of which were disclosed 
 by investigation in two thousand eight hundred cases. Some 
 of the causes are as follows : Ashes from tobacco pipes and 
 lighted cigar stumps, seventy-nine, or two and four-tenths 
 per cent. ; rats and matches, eighty-three, or two and four- 
 tenths per cent. ; fire-crackers and fire-works, one hundred 
 and four fires, or three and one-tenth per cent. ; gas jets ex- 
 plosions, one hundred and nine, or three and two-tenths 
 per cent. — after some seventy years' development of the gas 
 business ; defective flues, one hundred and sixteen, or three 
 
24 
 
 and six-tenths per cent. ; bon-fires, one hundred and thirty- 
 five, or three and nine-tenths per cent. ; sparks or heat from 
 furnaces and steam-pipes, four and one-tenth per cent. ; over- 
 heated stoves, four and three-tenths per cent. ; matches in 
 hands of children, eight and one-tenth per cent ; kerosene 
 lamps, nine and three-tenths per cent. ; electric wires, one and 
 six-tenths per cent. 
 
 Q. That includes electric light, wires and all ? 
 
 A. Everything in the city, with the general tendency in 
 many of the people to blame the electric wire for everything. 
 
 Q. To what extent are electric wires used ? 
 
 A. Very large. 
 
 Q. The same as they are here ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Overhead wires ? 
 
 A. It has this whole mileage of two hundred and forty 
 miles, or whatever it may be, of electric road. 
 
 Q. I mean electric light wires ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; largely. 
 
 Q. Do those reports state how many of these fires were 
 caused by the trolley wire ? 
 
 A. I do not know as they are distinguished, one from the 
 
 other. 
 
 Q. There was a fire occurred about three years ago, which 
 was mentioned by a gentleman here, Mr. Constable. He 
 stated in a very positive way— it was Mr. At wood Smith- 
 that the experts among insurance people had come to the 
 conclusion that it was caused by a trolley wire falling on an 
 
 electric time wire. 
 
 A. I heard about it, and I inquired into it. I lived in 
 New York at the time. There was a general cry at first that 
 it must have been the trolley wire. That was the general 
 tendency three years s^o, to lay every mysterious fire on the 
 electric wire. 
 
 Q. And the insurance people endeavored to create that 
 impression ? 
 
 A. It was one of those fires whose origin was not authen^ 
 tically determined. I cannot say it was not the trolley wire„ 
 and I cannot say it was. 
 
 25 
 
 Q. It has been stated, by the opponents of these ordinances, 
 and it was stated here substantially by Mr. Atwood Smith, that 
 the insurance companies, if this system were put up in Phila- 
 delphia, would be compelled to increase the rate of insurance. 
 Do you know whether the rates of insurance have been raised 
 in Boston, Brooklyn, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cin- 
 cinnati, or any other city in the United States, on any prop- 
 erty on the line of streets on which this system runs ? 
 
 A. I do not I cannot recall any instance now in which 
 that is the case. I can well understand that the body of un- 
 derwriters would take alarm. Their first move is self-protec- 
 tion. They say we will put the rates up, and if it does in- 
 crease fires, we are safe. 
 
 Q. Another objection I see these objectors make is, in case 
 of fire "the interference with the efforts of those engaged in 
 extinguishing the flames has proved to be a most serious ob- 
 struction." What is your experience as to that ? 
 
 A. The obstruction has not been a serious one. I think I 
 can say that the electrical fraternity and railway companies 
 have the good-will of the fire department in all cities where 
 they are used. 
 
 Q. How do the firemen manage, in case of fire, as to the 
 telephone wires, and electric wires, and trolley wires. 
 
 A. The bare troHey wire is not often seriously in the way 
 because it is in the middle of the city^ If it should be nec- 
 essary to cut the wire they can do so. Some of them are sup- 
 plied with rubber gloves. And they can call the linemen to 
 cut them. 
 
 Q. A great deal has been said here about the conduit sys- 
 tem, which is said to work in Buda-Pesth. Are you familiar 
 with it? 
 
 A. I am familiar with the printed reports on the matter. 
 
 We have had some reports from our European correspond- 
 ent. 
 
 Q. Has the conduit been tried in this country ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 Q. Where ? 
 
 A. At All^heny City and in Boston. 
 
26 
 
 Q. A con^derable amount of money was spent in Pitts- 
 burgh ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About ^100,000 or more? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. We purchased the company that did that work. 
 
 Q. What was the result of those experiments ? 
 
 A. That the engineers who put forward that system, and the 
 people in it, are to-day at all times stating that it is practically 
 out of the question to make conduit system that will be sat- 
 isfactory. 
 
 Q. What are the practical difficulties in the way ? 
 
 A. You have the hole in the ground. There are two ways 
 of making a circuitr-one with the ground and the other by 
 returning it over a wire. In using the ground you have the 
 earth itself, which corresponds to the wire. In the conduit 
 system this would be in a gutter, and you have two conduct- 
 ors which are carrying a current with a pressure of five hun- 
 dred volts, and if your joints are bad, and they are practically 
 destroyed in this case, because of the moisture and the snow — 
 and the small boy will put a knitting-needle down the slot, 
 and drop things in to see the effect of the force work—the 
 earth would conduct this voltage into it. Then, again, there 
 are topographical, conditions wherein it would be simply out 
 of the question to get the drainage. Tremember in New 
 York City, down in West Street, being in chaise of a shop 
 there, where sometimes the water in the sewer backed up so 
 that there was practically no drainage. 
 
 Q. If the Buda-Pesth system, or any conduit system — the 
 one devised by Mr. Marks, for instance — could be made to 
 work, wouldn't your company take it up ? 
 
 A. If we could use, commercially, any of the conduit S)^ 
 tems, we could save a great deal, and I should be out of my 
 place to appear before you to-day. It is certainly worthy 
 of some record that those who have spent millions and 
 millions of money in this business and to whose very inter- 
 est it is to offer that system which will meet with the 
 least objection, have not themselves been able to offer that 
 system. 
 
 27 
 
 Q. What is your general experience as to the trolley giv- 
 ing satisfaction ? 
 
 A. It has been a satisfaction or we could not have so many 
 
 miles of it in operation. We could not do a business which 
 has grown beyond our ability to care for it. 
 
 Q. Have you ever known of a road on which this trolley 
 system has been put, on which it has been abandoned ; if so, 
 what ? 
 
 A. I think some of the very early efforts have been 
 abandoned. 
 
 Q. I am speaking of more recent time.s. 
 
 A. None of those which have gone in in the last two years. 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. Do you think that there is any objection to overhead 
 wires in narrow streets in cities ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Will you state some of them ? 
 
 A. The objections that would be raised, in the first place, 
 against anything that is put up, and the objection — it can 
 best be explained by this model. It is objectionable in a cer- 
 tain sense. For instance, I would not want any smoke on 
 the locomotive which is going to take me back to New York 
 this evening. This is a life of compensation, and in getting 
 clean, pleasant, well-lighted cars, that move rapidly, there is 
 a compensation far in excess of what you pay for it. 
 
 Q. Is there any danger of any kind, either to persons or to 
 animals, from the stringing of these wires across our streets ? 
 
 A. The danger to persons will be limited to the shock, such 
 as I have described, if they occur at all. 
 
 Q. Is there any such danger ? 
 
 A. Employes get the shocks constantly. 
 
 Q. Is there any danger to individuals walking along the 
 street ? 
 
 A. To say there is absolutely no danger would be to strain 
 language. There is danger all the time, everywhere. There 
 is danger of your dying ; there is danger of this roof falling in. 
 
 Q. I ask you whether you think there is any danger of any 
 kind connected with the overhead wire ? 
 
28 
 
 A. I think there is a possibility of danger, but it is of so 
 small importance that it is practically not a danger worth con- 
 sidering. 
 
 Q. Do you consider that the trolley wire is as harmless, or 
 
 more so, than others ? 
 
 A. It is very much less harmless than some, and as to the 
 danger to human life no more harmful than any other. 
 
 Q. Is there any liability in a storm throwing down the 
 wires, of the trolley coming into contact with other wires and 
 thus produce a liability to fire or to personal accident-^has 
 the trolley anything to do with the liability in that way ? 
 
 A. If it is a bare wire, when most of the other wires arc 
 covered, there is some danger in wires falling. 
 
 Q. Is there any danger from the trolley wire breaking from 
 the fact that the trolley is always working on that wire, and 
 that the friction causes it to break ? 
 
 A. No. 
 
 Q« No danger of that sort ? 
 
 A. No, sir. The trolley could not very well break the 
 wire. The trolley presses up against the wire. 
 
 Q. But does not that friction produce any wear on the 
 
 wire ? 
 
 A. Yes. I suppose at the end of a thousand years it might 
 wear that pulley through. 
 
 Q. You think it is practically nothing ? 
 A. I think it is practically nothing. 
 
 Q. Is there not a peculiar liability to danger from the 
 breaking of wires during a sleet storm ? 
 
 A. There is a greater strain upon a wire in a sleet storm, 
 and the sleet lodges upon the wire. 
 
 Q. You are familiar with the accidents that occurred in 
 Albany last winter a year ago. Was there or was there not 
 quite a number of accidents in the shape of fire occurred from 
 that cause ? 
 
 A. I do not know. I was living in New York and Boston. 
 Q. You made no investigation at that time of the alleged 
 accidents in the city of Albany ? 
 
 Au I was living there and did not make any investigations. 
 
 Q. Do you know that was chained ? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. Never heard anything about it ? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. Then you arc entirely ignorant of what occurred in 
 the city of Albany, in the winter beginning December, 1890, 
 and ending March, 1891 ? 
 
 A. No. All that I know about Albany is that it is a place 
 where we sold a great many electric cars, and are selling more 
 every day. 
 
 Q. You don't know anything about the accident that oc- 
 curred. 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. And the disturbances that occurred ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any liability of the trolley cars being disturbed 
 in their motion and stopped during the trouble with the 
 storm ? 
 
 A. There is a liability ; yes, sir. 
 Q. Is it not very frequent ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. How often do you know it to occur ? 
 A. It has certainly occurred. I do not know how many 
 times. 
 
 Q. Have you not noticed it occur frequently during the 
 last month ? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. You think there is liability through storm ? 
 A. Yes, sir; I said there was. 
 Q. What is that ? 
 
 A. I could not express it in any more accurate way than I 
 have done. There is that liability, and I believe all of you 
 would say that if it was very great we could not do our busi- 
 ness. 
 
 Q. When was this electric system by trolley first noticed ? 
 
 A. I think Mr. Siemens was among the first ; that was 
 some twelve years ago. As to its introduction in any com- 
 mercial way in this country, which dates back to something 
 
3P 
 
 like 1884 or 1885, when the first experiments were made* 
 
 The Richmond road, which has been adverted, gained its 
 prominence because the system was appHed under great diffi- 
 culty and on a larger scale than had at that time been at- 
 tempted, and while its record was one of a great deal of 
 trouble for those who were connected with it, it has been 
 made the turning point for the electric car. 
 
 Q. When do you consider this system became a commercial 
 
 success ? 
 
 A. In the early part of, say, 1888. 
 
 Q. Up to that time how many roads were in operation 
 under this S3^tem ? 
 
 A. Ten or twelve, probably. 
 
 Q. The people who entered into that experiment were 
 generally people of capital. 
 
 A. They were men in small cities, 
 
 Q. They believed in making this a success ? 
 
 A. Unless they were protected by guarantees of the manu- 
 facturing company, that I do not know. I was not connected 
 with the company. 
 
 Q. The assumption was they could make it a success ? 
 
 A. They must have had some confidence. You can judge 
 that as well as I can. 
 
 Q. Do you not know that people very often enter into enter- 
 prises of that sort which, to a very lai^e extent, prove to be 
 failures, who are very good business men themselves and 
 waste their money in things of that sort ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you consider you have this system of trolley wires 
 in a perfect state of operation ? 
 
 A. No, sir. I should want to leave the company if I 
 
 thought we were not going to get on in our progress. 
 
 Q. Do you believe this system of passenger cars by elec- 
 tricity will be so much improved in the next two years or five 
 years as it has been in the last five ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; because in the last five years it was not much 
 more than a mere experiment, and to-day it is a certainty. 
 
 Q. If a system of underground or conduit wires could be 
 
 31 
 
 adopted, would you consider it an improvement upon the 
 overhead systems ? 
 
 A. If it could be adapted to meet the commercial wants, 
 
 of course. 
 
 Q. Wouldn't you consider that it would be a very great 
 improvement in streets as narrow as ones where there are so 
 many overhead wires ? 
 
 A. It would be preferable ; certainly. 
 
 Q. There is no question about that ? 
 
 A. None in my mind. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about the character of Mr. 
 Siemens, the man who is said to have invented this Budar- 
 Pesth system ? 
 
 A. I do not know him personally. I know Mr. Siemens. 
 
 Q. Is not his firm at the head of the electrical business of 
 the world ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Where do they stand ? 
 
 A. The head of the electrical business of the world is in 
 America. 
 
 Q. Where do they stand in Europe ? 
 A. There they might probably be said to be at the 
 head. 
 
 Q. Was not Mr. Siemens practically the inventor of the 
 trolley system ? 
 
 A. No. No one has been the inventor of the trolley sys- 
 tem of any definite point. There was an electric road run- 
 ning as early as 1884 — not a trolley system. But he was the 
 first one who run it. 
 
 Q. Was not Mr. Siemens the man who practically intro- 
 duced the trolley system into use ? 
 
 A. That comes pretty near being a fair statement of the 
 case. He directed more attention to that by what he did, I 
 think it was twelve years ago, than had been done previously. 
 The art has not developed in Europe. 
 
 Q. What do you know of his reputation and his success 
 in that line ? Would you give credence to a statement made 
 by him, or by those who succeeded him, the firm of Siemens 
 
32 
 
 & Holske, that they had succeeded in accomplishing the sys- 
 tem that gives good results in Buda-Pesth ? 
 
 A. I would give it all the credence to believe that he has 
 achieved good results under those conditions. 
 
 Q. Is it not probable that if they have had that system in 
 operation for two years or more, and have put it in at a cost 
 of |;20,ooo a mile, because that seems to be the statement— 
 and that it is a success— -you have no knowledge that it is 
 not? 
 
 A. No. I should want a great many facts. The word 
 " success '* has a whole range of meaning. 
 Q. Have you made any investigation into that Budar 
 
 Pesth system ? 
 
 A. We have reports from our correspondent in Europe, and 
 are waiting to hear more from it. 
 
 Q. Taking the topographical conditions that exist in Buda- 
 Pesth, which I understand oi^fht to be considered, and taking 
 the report which you are getting in reference to the system, 
 have you any reason to doubt that it is a success ? 
 
 A. I have not any reason to doubt, because I do not know 
 what it has cost to do it 
 
 Q. The question is whether you had any reason for doubt- 
 ing it, from anything you have heard adversely ? 
 
 A. I have heard this : I have heard that the govarmncnt 
 of that particular province has prohibited the offer of the sale 
 pf the bonds of that concern to the general public. 
 
 Q. Have you heard why ? 
 
 A. They said this thing is purely experimental. If they 
 offer it to the public, they do not want the public to take 
 stock in an enterprise which was not beyond the experimental 
 stage. 
 
 Q. From all you can learn from that, will you say that 
 you know knowing but that it is experimental, and, therefore, 
 you do not know whether it is a success ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You referred to the speed at which cars can be run. I 
 understood you — and I may have misunderstood you and 
 would like to get right about it— that in the densely popu- 
 
 33 
 
 lated portion of Boston, in the narrow streets there, their 
 speed was not over six miles an hour ? 
 
 A. On Tremont Street it is not an)^hing like six miles an 
 hour. Cars crawl along, eight and ten cars to the block. 
 
 Q. How far does that slow speed eHtend ? 
 
 A. Five or six blocks. 
 
 Q. Does the rapid speed not begin until you get into the 
 wide streets ? 
 
 A Yes, sir. It is not a question of the width of the streets, 
 unless in so far as the trafik in those streets affects them. It 
 is not a question of width, but whether a body can move along 
 there. 
 
 Q. What I want to get at is whether those cars move at any 
 greater rate than six miles an hour, or whether they move at 
 less in the densely populated part of the city, and, if so, under 
 what conditions ? 
 
 A. Using the words " densely populated portion ** in a very 
 restrictive sense, I should say, no. We might have different 
 ideas of what " densely populated " is. 
 
 Q. How far do the cars run in streets as densely populated 
 as Chestnut Street ? 
 
 A. Miles of them. 
 
 Q. Give me the streets ? 
 
 A. Washington. 
 
 Q. How far do they run on Washington Street ? 
 A. I think something like a mile and a hall. 
 Q. Where do they begin ? 
 
 A. They run — I do not know the name of the street. You 
 
 know where Albany Street is. 1 should say it is about a mile, 
 or a mile and a half. 
 
 Q. What other streets ? 
 
 A. On Tremont Street. 
 
 Q. How far ? 
 
 A. Say a mile. I am not exact now. 
 
 Q. Where else ? 
 
 A. On Winter Street. And they run on a number of tor- 
 tuous streets, the names of which I do not know. 
 
 Q. Is not the portion of Boston that is occu^iied by 
 
34 
 
 residences of Boston proper, comparatively limited by reason 
 of the water which is around it ? 
 
 A. No. There is not any city in the country that has the 
 extent of suburbs that Boston has. 
 
 Q. I am speaking of the city proper. 
 
 A. There is one very large area there which is called the 
 
 Back Bay District. 
 
 Q. That city has very wide streets ? 
 
 A. Newbury and Marlboro — as wide as those. 
 
 Q. Aie not most of the avenues through that portion of 
 Boston wide ? 
 
 A. No, sir. Commonwealth is the only one of an extreme 
 
 width. 
 
 Q. What is the width of the avenue at the Hotel Bruns- 
 wick ? 
 
 A. It is a street not wider than Chestnut Street. 
 Q. From curb to curb ? 
 
 A. From curb to curb. You have the idea of great width 
 because it is opposite the School of Technology, and there is 
 a great open space there. 
 
 Q. How is it opposite Mr. Brooks' church ? 
 
 A. There is an open space again and a little square called 
 Commons Square. 
 
 Q. It runs along Boston Commons, does it not ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And along the new public gardens ? 
 
 A Yes, sir. There is a great fight in Boston as to whether 
 they can take any of the Commons for street purposes. 
 
 Q. Is it not a fact that the population of Boston laigely 
 comes into the city in the morning and goes out at night ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And, therefore, is it not a fact that these means of ac- 
 cess create the demand for rapid transit ? 
 
 A. Certainly. That exists in every great city where we go. 
 
 Q. Is not that particularly so in Boston ? 
 
 A. I should say that I believe the suburban population of 
 Boston is perhaps a little larger in proportion to the city 
 proper than in most cities. 
 
 35 
 
 Q. Is it not a great deal like the city of New York, where 
 the people pour in in the morning and out In the afternoon ? 
 
 A. Yes ; and there is a great population lives within walk- 
 ing distance of their offices. 
 
 Q. You take Pittsburgh, where you say these narrow streets 
 are used. Are not the streets within the heart of the city of 
 Pittsburgh very much confined by the hills, and is it not true 
 with reference to Pittsburgh, as to Boston, that this system of 
 rapid transit into and out of the city is very much more in 
 demand than it would be in the city of Philadelphia, where 
 the streets run at a great distance in every direction ? 
 
 A. I think from the fact that Philadelphia is spread out is 
 one of the reas(Mis why it would be after rapid transit 
 
 Q. You have spoken of some two hundred and fifty cities 
 that are using this trolley system. Can you tell me some 
 other cities except Boston and Pittsburgh in which this sys- 
 tem is used with streets as narrow as ours? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. I could do it off-hand — Richmond and Scran- 
 ton. Harrisbuig I am not familiar with. 
 
 Q. As a rule, the trolley cars are run upon wide streets ? 
 
 A. No, sir. They go on the most traveled streets. 
 
 Q. Are you not aware that in almost all the cities you have 
 referred to the streets are wide ? 
 
 A. I am not certain they are as wide as Philadelphia. I 
 know that you have particularly narrow streets as compared 
 with some. 
 
 Q. As compared with most of the modern cities of the 
 country ? 
 
 A. No; I do not. 
 
 Q. I understood you to say that you did not know of any- 
 body that had ever been killed, or that you did not think 
 
 there was any danger connected with the trolley wires. I 
 want to read you what I saw in the papers, and I ask you if 
 there was any danger in that ? (Mr. Bullitt reads from the 
 issue of the Philadelphia Ledger^ of December 23d, 1891, 
 which stated ikak in New Albany a man named Lewis Hacker 
 was injured by electric trolley wires, and was not expected to 
 recover.) Did you see that ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
36 
 
 Q. Did you know anything about it ? 
 A. I know this about it That that New Albany incident, 
 and one time in Michigan, were both paraded very largely to 
 the public press as being instances of the killing of people by 
 the trolley wire. I know that at the time some electrical 
 man made it a point to get at the facts surrounding those 
 two instances. This was after the New Albany incident, and 
 this other one at Grand Rapids, or some other town. And 
 his conclusions were that there had been no authenticated case 
 of a death from trolley wires. 
 
 Q. Let me read another one from the Philadelphia Record, 
 of November 21st, 1891. (Mr. Bullitt reads from the issue 
 of the Philadelphia Record of that date concerning a man 
 named George Sullivan, in striking a nail and hitting a trol- 
 ley wire, which doubled him up and caused him to fall down.) 
 
 A. I know nothing about the incident. That is taken from 
 one of the papers of the day. 
 
 Q. What I want to get at is this: This states that he fell 
 backwards in striking on a live wire, with the back of the 
 neck, and that he was thrown in the air. Is that likely to 
 ensue from such a thing ? 
 
 A. I can only speak from my own personal experience and 
 seeing men getting this shock and getting up and using strong 
 language. 
 
 Q. If a man happened to be at an elevation of fifteen or 
 twenty feet and received such a shock, would he be able 
 
 to get down, or not ? 
 
 A. When he releases his hold the shock ceases. 
 
 Q. Then you do not feel there is any danger, particularly 
 to a man who receives a shock in the air at that distance ? 
 
 A. The fall might hurt the man, but I do not think the 
 shock would kill him. 
 
 Q. You were asked in reference to the noise made by the 
 •trolley cars. I understood you to say there was a noise 
 which was most annoying at Richmond, if I recollect aright ; 
 but that has been done away with since, I understood you to 
 
 say?- 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 37 
 
 Q. Now, is there not a certain amount of noise from the 
 wheel running on the wire ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; that is true. There is a certain amount of 
 noise. 
 
 Q. Is not that one of those things which is diss^eeable 
 and offensive to hear? 
 
 A. I can only answer, if you will allow me 
 
 Q. Suppose a person living in one of our streets during the 
 summer had the window open — ^. second-story window, being 
 removed from the trolley over twenty-five feet — would that 
 or not be audible to the person in that room ? 
 
 A. I think in some cases it would be and in some it would 
 not. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to say that some trolleys make a noise 
 and some do not ? 
 
 A. That is what I mean to say. Of course, there is a 
 noise made by every car. We know that all cars make 
 noise and the horses make a noise, and the noise of the trol- 
 ley wire itself is such that it is swallowed up in the noise that 
 is made by the car. 
 
 Q. If they were opposite the sleeping rooms of a house, 
 would it not be likely to affect the persons living in that house ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; not at all. 
 
 Q. You have heard the cable on Market Street. Do you 
 mean to say that the trolley wire is not more offensive to per- 
 sons in the second-story ? 
 
 A. I do not know how offensive it is to you, but it is not 
 to me. I have slept in a room — a front room, in a house on a 
 street not wider than this — Chestnut Street — with a double 
 line of cars passing it, and I can only say that the noise from 
 the trolley does not affect me. 
 
 Q. Do you hear the noise ? 
 
 A. I do. 
 
 Q. Is there any liability to a hissing of sparks from the 
 
 trolley ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. At what times are they more noticeable ? 
 A. They may be on all the time. 
 
38 
 
 Q. When can they be seen best ? 
 A. At night. 
 
 Q. To what extent do they exist ? Is it not caused by 
 their being a little hiatus in the electrical wires ? 
 
 A. If there is any roughness in the trolley wire. If there 
 is any snow, there may be an induction of the spark between 
 the wire and the trolley. 
 
 Q. Do you or not believe that in two years from now we 
 will have a S3^em of propulsion by electricity which will be 
 free from very many of the objections which now exist ? 
 
 A. I do not believe that. We are trying to do what we 
 can to improve it. In all these five years there has been a 
 large improvement in the trolley system. 
 
 Q. Has there ever been any subject that you know of in 
 which the human mind — the scientific mind — is more exer* 
 cised than it is to-day in experiments in electricity ? 
 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. Are not the improvements which are being made in 
 the power of propulsion by electricity probably the most im- 
 portant that are being made to-day ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is it not, then, probable that in two years from now 
 there will be much greater strides made than have been made 
 
 in the last five years ? 
 A. In what direction ? 
 
 Q. In the improvement of the system of propulsion and 
 the removing of the objections which now exist ? 
 
 A. We make great strides all the time. It is perfectly im- 
 possible for me to stand here to-day and say to you or any- 
 body else that 1 can look in the future and see what will 
 happen two years since. We are trying to make improve- 
 ments all the time. 
 
 MR. GEORGE WESTINGHOUSE. 
 
 A painter was painting a building in Pittsburgh, and some- 
 thing gave away and he fell down on a high-tension wire 
 and saved his life. 
 
 39 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. Is this the case I read from the Ree^frd? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. You do not know about Sullivan being done up ? 
 
 A. No. If he fell and did not have his foot on anything 
 he would not get a shock. 
 
 Q. You do not know anything about this case? 
 
 A. No. I only know of the other where a live wire saved 
 the man. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. What is your business ? 
 
 A. I am the Inventor of the air-brake and connected with 
 electric companies. 
 
 Q. You are connected with the Westinghouse Company ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; we manufacture motors and generators. The 
 trolley wires are generally put up by the companies that put 
 up the railways. 
 
 Q. You are thoroughly familiar with the trolley system ? 
 
 A. I am, comparatively so. 
 
 Q. And all motors connected with the electric roads of 
 this country ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You live in Pittsburgh ? 
 A.. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been running the electric cars in 
 Pittsburgh ? When the attenipt was made to introduce that 
 system was it received pleasantly by the people ? 
 
 A. They did not care anything about it there. 
 
 Q. They are more progressive there than here ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. The only thing that surprises me is that this 
 meeting should not be the other way— to compel you to 
 put it up. 
 
 Q. Do you think the people of Pittsburgh could be in- 
 duced to have it taken away ? 
 A. No. 
 
 Q. There are a couple hundred miles of it, I believe, in 
 
 Pittsburgh ? 
 A. I should hardly put it at as much as that. 
 
40 
 
 Q. In what streets is it ? 
 
 A. It is all over creation. The Pen n Company took every 
 street that was not taken by the other company, and they 
 have it from points in Allegheny, Manchester, and up on the 
 hili. Tiiey run it op at twelve per cent grade, away out at 
 East End, at Greensburg. They have taken a great deal of 
 Pennsylvania Railroad traffic. The people get on the cars 
 and come down quickly and comfortably and go back again. 
 
 Q. Is it not a fact that almost all the suburban lines that 
 bring people in run right down into the very heart of the city, 
 in almost every important street in the centre oC the city ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; at high rates of speed ; and it used to be a Very 
 common thing for people to get out from behind the horse- 
 cars — people in carriages. Since they have the cable and 
 electric cars there everybody gets out of the way of them at 
 a higher speed. 
 
 Q. Fifth Avenue is the principal business street ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is a little wider — not much — ^than Chestnut 
 Street ; and Smithfield Street is about the width of Chestnut 
 Street. 
 
 A. Yes, sir. It has two tracks, and the wagons can hardly 
 pass along the side. A ws^on can turn out to the right or to 
 the left so a car can pass. And it is so on Penn Avenue. 
 
 Q. That is another principal street ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. They run it at about eight or nine miles an 
 hour. 
 
 Q. What has been the gain in speed, taking all the electric 
 cars as a whoki md comparing them with the hoi^se-ciu:s ? 
 What has been the gain in speed ? 
 
 A. I should say it was double. 
 
 Q. In other words, they make .the same distance in about 
 one-half the time ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What has been the effect on the suburbs ? 
 
 A. Enormot^. It has added so to the convenience of the 
 
 people that a person who wishes to go down can get in a 
 cable car or electric car at his door, and go to his very place of 
 
 41 
 
 busineiss, and many people go that way instead of taking the 
 
 Pennsylvania Railroad. 
 
 Q. What has been the effect on the property through 
 which it goes ? 
 
 A. We are suffering from a new assessment ; and judging 
 by its increase, property has gone up four-fold. 
 Q. So there is no depreciation ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q, What has been the danger to life of passengers or peo- 
 ple crossing the street from the electric current ? 
 
 A. None that I know 6f. 
 
 Q. Any horses killed there by the current? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; but I do not think it is the one-hundredth 
 part of the horses killed on the horse-cars, if you take that 
 standpoint. 
 
 Q. Have you ever heard of the rates of insurance being in- 
 creased OH Any property along those lines ? 
 A. No. There is mil a^t^ttion going on. 
 
 insurance companies are trying to increase the rates ? 
 
 A. I think in some cases it might increase — in some ex- 
 ceptional cases. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the trolley system in Boston and 
 
 other cities ? 
 A. il have seeil it there. 
 
 Q. Another objection has been made on the ground of 
 noise. What is the experience of Pittsburgh people as to 
 noise ? 
 
 A. We have some motors there that are noisy and objec- 
 tiOQabie^ but they are putting on other motors that are so 
 noiseless in their operation that the objection is removed. 
 
 Q. That the new motor ; does that make any more noise 
 than is made by the horse-car ? 
 
 A Not so much. I think the noise of the horses' feet on 
 the cobble-stones— on the pavement — is much greater than 
 that of the electric cars. 
 
 Q. There has been a great deal said about conduits to-dky. 
 You ought to know all about them ? 
 
 A. . I ought to. The conduit has to be made of iron and 
 
42 
 
 made strong, and the wires, when they are laid inside, are 
 likely to leak into this iron conduit, and if there is a horse 
 steps on them and gets on the rail it will receive a shock. 
 
 Q. There was an experiment made in Pittsburgh or Alle- 
 gheny City with that ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Were you in that ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It was abandoned as a complete failure ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. After spending a good deal of money ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What were the practical difficulties that were found 
 there ? 
 
 A. The leakage and burning out. Putting the electricity 
 up in the air is best. Air is the best insulator known. 
 
 Q. There is some talk about the danger of fire to houses. 
 Would it be possible for a current of five hundred volts, sup- 
 posing the insulation of the span wire was broken, and the 
 current passed over the span wire to the poles and disap- 
 peared in the ground, would it be possible for the current to 
 leak through the pole into the air across the distance of the 
 pavement ^Ito the house ? 
 
 A. No ; it would not go through the air the space of one- 
 sixteenth of an inch. Fires are more liable to be caused by 
 the heavy wires coming into contact with the lighter ones — 
 the telephone wire. 
 
 Q. That is to say, the accidents that have happened and 
 are spoken of, as to fires, have occurred from the electric light 
 wires coming into contact with 
 
 A. Telephone wires. 
 
 Q. And therefore on streets on which there are none of 
 these wires there would be absolutely no danger from fire ? 
 A Absolutely none. 
 
 Oscar B. Crosby, recalled : — 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. Will you state whether on streets where the trolley sys- 
 
 43 
 
 tern is, where there are other wires ranging from ten to forty, 
 
 you ought to have your wires protected by guard wires ? 
 
 A. Where those wires are parallel to the trolley wire, it is 
 not necessary, because if these wires fall, they won't fall on 
 that wire. With regard to putting guard wires at certain 
 intersections of the street, it is a question that the engineer in 
 charge of the insulation will judge, as he goes from point to 
 point along the line. 
 
 Q. It is a question of judgment for the engineer. 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 George Westinghouse, recalled : — 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. Do you know, or is it known to any men in your busi- 
 ness, of any other system than this trolley system — this over- 
 head wire system — by which street cars can be propelled suc- 
 cessfully ? 
 
 A. I know of no other system. I think the storage battery 
 system which has been alluded to is impracticable. I had 
 
 one of the first out, and the rapid deterioration of them con- 
 vinces me that it was an impracticable device, either for light- 
 ing or power, and I think if the people wait for more comfort- 
 able cars and higher speed that the storage battery won't 
 supply it. 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. Pittsburgh is bounded by the Allegheny River on one 
 side and the Monongahela on the other, and very high hills 
 all around. 
 
 A. Yes, sir; four hundred feet high — three hundred and 
 fifty feet above the river. 
 
 Q. Therefore is not the trolley system a desirable thing to 
 have to ride out to the suburbs on account of these high 
 hills ? 
 
 A. Not on account of that, but on account of the distance. 
 Q. Do not these high hills render it necessary for the pop- 
 ulation, as it is increasing, to flow over into the suburbs ? 
 
 A. Only to the extent that it affords them a rapid means 
 of transit to and from their home. 
 
44 
 
 Q. Are you acquainted with the country around Philadel- 
 phia ? 
 
 A. I have a general knowledge. 
 
 Q. Do you mean to sa;y that the system will be as essential 
 to Philadelphia as it is to Pittsburgh, taking the topographical 
 conditions into consideration ? 
 
 A. I think it will be one of the best adjuncts to the health 
 of your city as it is to Pittsburgh. 
 
 Q. You do not think that the topographical conditions of 
 Pittsbuigh makes it any more necessary there than here? 
 
 A. I do not. 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about the Buda-Pesth system ? 
 A. I have seen the drawings, and I have looked at them. 
 Q. Do you know anything about the men who built it ? 
 A. YeS| sir. 
 Q. Who are they ? 
 
 A. Mr. Siemens is probably one of the most eminent sci^ 
 cntific men in the world. 
 
 Q. Has not he been more forward than anybody else in 
 the matter of the propulsion of cars by electricity ? 
 
 A. They have paid more attention to this Siemens* lamp 
 and glass and iron, &c., and electricity is one of the things 
 they have taken up during the past few years. 
 
 Q. Don't you know they are the men who have been fore- 
 most in introducing propulsion by the trolley system ? 
 
 A Yes, sir. I saw the first car they put into the Paris Ex- 
 position. They put a line in a place near Edinborough. They 
 had the trolley line running about a foot above ground.' 
 That was one of the first commercial lines they put in. 
 
 Q. Do you think that the system of overhead wires for a 
 city like Philadelphia, with our narrow streets, is desirable ? 
 
 A. I do think so. 
 
 Q. You think it is desirable to have overhead wires ? 
 A. I come here frequently, and I walk faster than I can 
 ride. 
 
 Q. I am asking you, not with reference to the trolley sys- 
 tem, but I am asking you about overhead wires of any kind ? 
 A. If you could get a system of rapid transit equally as 
 
 45 
 
 good then I should say the trolley would not be desirable, but 
 if that gives you any better transit than you have got, or than 
 anything else at a lower cost, I should say it would be de- 
 sirable. 
 
 Q. Please answer the question. The question I put is 
 whether you think it desirable to have overhead telephone, 
 telegraph, and trolley wires in a city like ours ? 
 
 A. I should say it is not desirable to have them overhead 
 — telegraph, telephone, or other electric wires. We cannot 
 put those under ground successfully in a great many cities. 
 
 Q. Knowing the fact that we have in very many of our 
 streets many electric wures, do you think it is wise or ad- 
 vantageous to add some more ? 
 
 A. I think, for the results to be obtained, it is wise. 
 
 Adjourned to meet on Wednesday, March i6th, at 12 
 o'clock noon. 
 
 STATEMENT OF PROFESSOR DUNCAN. 
 
 Wednesday, March 16th, 1892. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 
 Q. What is your position and in what university ? 
 
 A. I am at the head of the electrical department at the 
 Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore. 
 
 Q. How long have you been at the head of that depart- 
 ment ? , 
 
 A. Six years. 
 
 Q. How long have you devoted your attention and time 
 to the study of electricsd matters ? 
 A. Ten years. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the different systems of propel- 
 ling street cars by electricity ? 
 A. I am. 
 
 What examination, outside of the examination of the 
 literature on the subject, have you made of the different lines 
 and systems in different cities ? 
 
 A. I have made reports of the different systems for com- 
 .panies, and 1 have designed more or less machinery used in 
 
46 
 
 electrical operations. I have also experimented on storage 
 batteries, and have built a storage-battery car which I have 
 run. 
 
 Q. Then you have also been employed by companies as an 
 
 expert to make reports upon different matters of electrical 
 machinery, and therefore know what you are talking about ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; I think so. 
 
 Q. Where have you seen the trolley system, for instance, 
 in general operation ? 
 
 A. I have seen it in Boston, Qeveland, Pittsburgh, and a 
 number of cities. 
 
 Q. State in your own way whether the storage battery or 
 the conduit system, which have been spoken of, are or are 
 not practical — whether the trolley system is more practical 
 and practicable — ^their advantages and the disadvantages 
 which you have heard urged here and which you have read 
 in the newspapers. 
 
 A. The three systems that could be possibly used for elec- 
 trical traction to-^y are the overhead trolley system, the 
 conduit system, and the storage-battery system. Of those, 
 the trolley system is the only one in practical use. I except 
 a road outside of those which is hardly, I should say, an as- 
 sured commercial success as yet. That road is in the hands 
 of a company from which no data as to expense can be ob- 
 tained. As to storage batteries, I have made consider- 
 able inquiry. The roads were started first in Brussels by the 
 Julian Company. A road in England was started, and after 
 prolonged experiment it was abandoned. Every care was 
 taken in the Brussels road, which was not a very difficult one 
 to operate as we look at roads here, and every attention was 
 given to make it a success. It failed. 
 
 In this country we have an equal record of failure. In New 
 York, on Fourth Avenue, the t«tteries are very much similar 
 to the other companies, and that road failed, the cars being 
 taken off. At Dubuque, Iowa, they have failed also. 
 
 About three years ago I was called on in Baltimore to 
 build a car for some people who owned rights for storage 
 batteries, and the rights they owned were under the 
 
 47 
 
 Accumulator Company. The batteries were made according 
 to the Accumulator Company's patents. I think those 
 batteries were as good as any that had been made at the 
 time, or possibly since, because I have used some of 
 them for stationary work since then, and they have been 
 very successful. We built the batteries and the car 
 was equipped by the Sprague Company of New York. 
 It was run perhaps altogether two weeks, or the steady 
 running of it amounted to about that. At the end of 
 that time the positive plates began to give way, and the 
 car was taken off and has not been used since. The 
 reason that that car went to pieces quicker than most was 
 on account of the very heavy grades in Baltimore. The 
 great difficulty with s torage batteries is not that they 
 have not enough stor^e power. You can get enough 
 energy in them to run a car for a considerable distance, 
 but you can only take the energy out of the battery at a cer- 
 tain rate. Now take the circular of the Accumulator Com- 
 pany. They refer to a cell that weighs forty pounds, and it 
 would require one hundred of those cells to run a car, making 
 a weight of four thousand pounds. They give the rate las a 
 maximum of thirty amperes. To pull a car up a five per cent, 
 grade at the rate of six miles an hour it would take eighty 
 amperes, and in a grade heavier than that, of course very 
 much more. That is, you have got to work away outside of 
 what the company gives as a maximum rate. The difficulty 
 is also that the batteries deteriorate — ^the positive plates— on 
 account of the heavy discharge rate, and in the last four or 
 five years the batteries have not been greatly improved in 
 that respect. Their life is not longer than it was some years 
 ago. I have had batteries lately made by a company that 
 made very good ones a few years ago, that are not good at 
 all. Battoies have been introduced into use in electric 
 lights, but the great improvement has been not in the cells, 
 but in the appreciation of the fact that the cell is not a thing 
 to be used as we want to. We have got to have an immense 
 weight of metal instead of a very light weight. 
 
 BofBOBnllyy I do not think that an onMnmy toad can be 
 
48 
 
 run by storage batteries and made to pay. In Washington 
 there is a road called the Metropolitan Road, which is going 
 to have fcwrty cars, I think. In that city it is impossible to 
 use overhead wires. Hiey are not allowed. That road caiir 
 riot be run by cable on account of the curves, of whidi theile 
 are an immense number, and cable engineers say that it can- 
 not be run by cable. By act of Congress, horses will not be 
 allowed there after a certain time, so they are driven to stor- 
 age batteries, but they have not yet selected a battery. 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q, Is that the road that runs along Pennsylvania Avenue ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; it ran on F Street up to about a month ago. 
 Their motors are being built and a power-house put up, but 
 they have not yet selected a battery to run their road. The 
 records had not been good enough for them to choose any 
 particular battery. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. Do you know of any road in the United States or in 
 Europe that is using the storage battery ? 
 
 A. There is a road in Washmgton with about six cars, I 
 think, using it. 
 
 Q. I mean outside of that. 
 
 A. There is a road in Manchester, England, where the 
 
 storage battery is used. The reports from that road in the 
 technical journals are not favorable, but as to the matter of 
 the expense account in that case, 1 don't know anything 
 about it I only know what I have seen in the papers. 
 
 Q. Is there any other in the United States than the one 
 that you have spoken of in Washington ? 
 
 A. No regular running road. The conduit system, of 
 course, has an advantage, if it can be applied, but it has been 
 tried in the United States in two or three places— tried in 
 Cleveland, and it was tried in Boston ; a number of experi- 
 ments have also been made in other pkices« That has alws^y$ 
 failed on account of the difficulty of insulating the wires an4 
 getting the current from the wires to the car. 
 
 One road that is in successful operation is a road at Buda- 
 •Pesth. That road at first was not operated in the winter 
 
 49 
 
 months, though whether it is now I don't know. The first 
 
 winter it was not operated by electricity in the winter months, 
 but by horses. That road has a slot of thirty-three millime- 
 tres — about one and three-tenths inch wire. There is more 
 or less trouble about getting the current from the wire through 
 the slot. That road is possibly more or less a success under 
 the conditions in which it is run — that is, in the summer 
 months ; but with this wide slot, it would not be permitted 
 here. 
 
 As far as work in this country goes, although it might be 
 possible to put down a conduit and give very good results, 
 yet it has never been done, and if tried it would be an exper- 
 iment. There is nothing that we can go to that I think would 
 lead any one trying to put a road in to use the conduit sys- 
 tem, because even the experiments tried here have been un- 
 successful in this country. 
 
 Q. Do you happen to know whether carriages and wagons 
 use the car track in Buda-Pesth, as they do in our cities ? 
 
 A. I have never been there and I do not know. I think 
 it is very probable that they do not. The trolley line, of 
 course, has the objection that it puts the wire above the 
 ground, as far as that is an objection. They can be made not 
 very objectionable, if the line is properly constructed as far as . 
 looks go. They can be made almost absolutely safe by the 
 use of guard wires, and really the great danger, as far as re- 
 ports of fires are concerned, is not from the trolley line itself, 
 but from dead wires on telegraph and telephone lines. Un- 
 questionably, if they cross a live trolley line, there might be 
 trouble, but by the use of guard wires, that can be obviated. 
 
 As far as the danger of trolley lines goes, five hundred volts is 
 not a deadly current. People suffering from heart disease might 
 be killed by reason of a shock of that kind ; I had myself 
 such a shock several times, and while it is annoying, yet the 
 only result I have suffered might be a little burn perhaps on 
 my finger. 
 
 The record of the trolley lines in the last three or 
 
 four years has been one of rather steady progress. 
 The first structures put up were rather unsightly, but now 
 
50 
 
 a great deal of experience has been brought to bear, and the 
 overhead wire is not as objectionable as it used to be even in 
 the way of looks. As I say, I do not think it is at all danger- 
 ous to life, and I think there are a great many reports which 
 
 attribute deaths untruthfully to the trolley-wire system. I 
 know of one instance where there was no trolley line in a 
 town, yet an accident which occurred there was laid to the 
 trolley. 
 
 Q. The people who report them do not know the difference 
 between the trolley wire and an electric-light wire ? 
 
 A. No ; so that so far as the trolley is concerned, I think 
 it is a practical arrangement, and not dangerous, so far as the 
 current goes. So far as the car goes, the car is under better 
 control than in most of the other systems — under almost ab- 
 solutely close control — and there should be no more accidents 
 than in any other system running at such a rate of speed. In 
 fact, the car is under such control that it ought to stop quicker, 
 because you can reverse the current in a case of emergency. 
 It would not necessarily be done unless in such a case. 
 
 Q. Taking a car runnii^^ six miles an hour, if the brake is 
 put on immediately to reverse it, in what distance ought it 
 to be stopped ? 
 
 • A. In its own length, very easily, by the hand-brake. 
 Q. How about ten miles an hour ? 
 
 A. If the current was reversed it would stop in the dis- 
 tance that you could skid the wheel It is under the same 
 control that half a dozen other cars would be. There is 
 
 nothing peculiar in the system so far as that goes. This sys- 
 tem has been proved to be an economical success. It is 
 economical. There is no question about that. And it also 
 gives rapid transit when you cannot get it by other systems. 
 
 Q. Taking your knowledge of it in the many towns and 
 cities in this country in which it is used, what are the results 
 based on actual experience as to its being a success or not a 
 success ? 
 
 A. As far as I can find out, when it is once put up in a 
 town there are very few people who want to get it out. Of 
 course, there are some people who always object to every- 
 
 51 
 
 thing. As a general thing, however, I think it is satisfactory 
 where it is put in. That has been my towns where it has 
 been intfxxluced. 
 
 Cross-^xamtnation, 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. Have you had very much experience in the practical 
 operation of it in the various places to which 3^u have 
 referred ? 
 
 A. I don't understand you exactly. 
 
 Q. I understood you to say that, so far as your experience 
 had gone in the places in which it had been used, it was satis- 
 factory. Now I ask you whether your experience in that 
 respect has been an intimate one ? 
 
 A. I have gone to the different cities and I know of the 
 reports of the railroad superintendents. 
 
 Q. What class of cities are you familiar with ? 
 
 A, Principally in Boston. 
 
 Q. Is it not due largely to the fact that electric cars there 
 are very useful for running in the suburi>s of Boston which 
 gives them so much favor ? 
 
 A. I really cannot say what individual opinion is. They 
 simply tell me that they like or do not like it. 
 
 Q. Is it not a fact, however, that they are largely used for 
 running into the suburbs there ? 
 
 A. They are ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Isn't the topographical situation of Boston such as to 
 make some such mode of rapid transit almost a necessity ? 
 
 A. Well, we have about the same topographical situation in 
 Baltimore. 
 
 Q. I mean to say, is it not much more advantageous to 
 have rapid transit in a city situated as Boston is, surrounded 
 so largely by water, and with high hills around it in every 
 direction — isn't that more favorable for the use of a trolley 
 system than a flat, level city would be ? In other words, does 
 it not overcome the natural difficulties of the travel from the 
 suburbs into the city more rapidly than would be necessary 
 in a city like this ? 
 
52 
 
 A, I think rapid transit is extremely important to every 
 city, outside of its topography. You want to get in town as 
 quickly as you can, and I should imagine that the advant- 
 ages were of the same importance in a flat country as m a 
 hilly country. 
 
 Q. However, that it gives to the city of Boston such great 
 advantages, is the fact that so much of her population pours 
 into Boston daily and goes out daily to and from her sub- 
 urbs ? 
 
 A. Well, I cannot say whether that is so or not 
 Q. Are you not familiar with the fact that Brookline, Cam- 
 bridge, and Jamaica Plains, and all these different places— 
 Roxbury— are all very important suburbs of Boston, from 
 which their inhabitants go in and out in the morning and 
 evening ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is it not also true that the trolley cars which have 
 been introduced so generally over the country are, in the main, 
 used in streets that are wide, or in suburbs that are compara- 
 tively sparsely populated ? Are there many cities, or if any, 
 which ones where the trolley system has been introduced 
 into streets which are not more than twenty-five or twenty- 
 seven feet from curb to curb ? 
 
 A. I am not prepared to make any very definite answer to 
 that question. I think in Pittsburgh and Boston they have 
 narrow streets. 
 
 Q. How about beyond Pittsburgh and Boston? 
 
 A. think some of the streets of Cincinnati are very narrow. 
 I hardly remember, though, as it has been some time since I 
 was there. In Richmond there are several narrow streets 
 and they have a line there. 
 
 Q. Has not that Richmond line been rather a failure ? 
 
 A. That was an experiment. Of course, at first they had 
 the disadvantage of all experiments. The final success of 
 that road gave an impulse to electric traction that it has to- 
 day, and has carried it where it is. 
 
 Q. That is, it established the fact that the trolley overhead 
 wire system could be used in going up heavy grades ? 
 
 53 
 
 A. It established the fact that the overhead system was a 
 success, I think. 
 
 Q. Has not that road been very much objected to on ac- 
 count of the noise which it made ? 
 
 A. I do not know about the noise. A good many difficul- 
 ties occurred, as I say, because it was an experiment. Almost 
 all the experiments were tried down there. 
 
 Q. Did you ever happen to sleep in the Ballard Hotel, on 
 the side next to the street where the trolley runs ? 
 
 A. I slept in some of the cars there. 
 
 Q. Did you ever sleep there in the summer when the win- 
 dows were up ? 
 
 A. No ; I was there in the winter. 
 
 Q. Then you don't know of the pleasure of hearing the 
 trolley pass at night ? 
 
 A. It is never unpleasant to me. 
 
 Q. Very great efforts are being made now by practical 
 mechanical men and scientific men to develop this system of 
 propulsion by electricity, are there not ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any subject to which now public attention is 
 more attracted, or upon which there is really more effort being 
 
 made ? 
 
 A. I think not. 
 
 Q. With your scientific knowledge and experience, have 
 you any question that there are going to be very great im- 
 provements made in the sj^tem of propulsion by electricity 
 
 on street railways ? 
 
 A. I unquestionably think there will be. In the last few 
 years there have been improvements. For instance, from the 
 double reduction to the single reduction, and the motor 
 which makes no noise at all. 
 
 Q. Do you think that is likely to take place rapidly in the 
 future ? 
 
 A. It is now, and I have no doubt that it will take place 
 rapidly in the future. 
 
 Q. In two years from now some system may be introduced 
 which may entirely supersede the present, may it not ? 
 
54 
 
 A. Very possibly. At the same time it is hardly probable, 
 I should say, considering the range of development in the last 
 few years. The s)rstem to-day is almost exactly like the sys- 
 tem proposed in 1886 by Mr. Sprague. It has almost all the 
 essential features, but differs greatly from it in detail. The 
 details have been improved very much. The fundamental 
 basis is, however, the same as was proposed in 1 886, and used 
 in 1886, so that while there will be, or there may be, very 
 vast improvements in detail, the thing will come gradually, 
 and the particular system, I think, will remain as it is for 
 some time. The principle will remain as it is for some time. 
 
 Q. Taking the case of the trolley system running along a 
 street, it comes to a crossing with another street where there 
 is an aggregation of wires anywhere from fifty to one hun- 
 dred. Is it not important that there should be a careful ar- 
 rangement made to guard against the trolley wires and other 
 series coming in contact ? 
 
 A. Do you mean the other electric light wires and tele- 
 phone and telegraph wires? 
 
 Q. Yes. 
 
 A. Do you mean where two sets of wires cross one an- 
 other ? Of course, that is important 
 
 Q. I have had some computations made of the wires which 
 are found upon some of our crossings. For instance, the 
 wires running along Twentieth Street are given me as being 
 twenty-eight ; the wires running down Fifteenth Street, tele- 
 graph wires, one hundred and six; the wires running down 
 Thirteenth Street, telegraph wires, thirty-four. Those at the 
 crossings of some of these streets is something remarkable. 
 The wires crossing Twenty-second from Market to Walnut, 
 four hundred and sixty. I imagine that that means some 
 three crossings. It could hardly be one crossing. That 
 would probably give one hundred and thirty wires at a cross- 
 ing. Now, under those circumstances, is it not very impor- 
 tant that there should be careful arrangements made to guard 
 the wires, to protect the trolley from coming in contact with 
 the others ? 
 
 A. Of course, it would be best to do that as far as possible. 
 
 55 
 
 but those telephone and telegraph wires go somewhere. Now, 
 the houses]into which they go could be absolutely protected 
 by cut-outs — not a very expensive apparatus — so that if you 
 had no guard wires at all and wanted to drop them altogether, 
 you could still have protection where they go into a house ; 
 you could use the cut-out and the house would be protected 
 against fire. 
 
 Q. But you have them running into thousands and 
 thousands of houses, have you not ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir, and you could put a cut-out in each house. It 
 is a very small matter and not expensive^ and they work very 
 nicely. 
 
 Q. Do you mean into each house ? For instance, take the 
 Drexel Building, where there are probably running into it 
 four, five, or six hundred wires. 
 
 A. Possibly it would cost twenty dollars or thirty dollars 
 to put cut-outs in there for the whole lot. 
 
 Q. For each one ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; for the whole lot. That would protect against 
 fire. 
 
 Q. Is that system practiced anywhere 
 A. Yes, I think it is used in Boston. 
 A Member : — It is used here also. 
 By Another Member : 
 
 Q. Is not the reason of that large number running into the 
 Drexel Building the fact that they are mainly the wires of 
 the Bell Telephone Company. 
 
 Mr. Bullitt: — That may be. I only called attention to 
 it to illustrate what has been spoken of. (To the witness.) 
 You do not think then that it is at all important, as I under- 
 stand you, to use guard wires in protecting these trolley wires ? 
 
 A. It depends a great deal. I would put guard wires in 
 some places, and in some I would not. It would depend en- 
 tirely on what the danger of the crossing was. Of course you do 
 not want the other wires to fall on the trolley wire, if you can 
 help it ; so that in some places where there was danger I 
 would put a guard wire, but everywhere there ought to be 
 these cut-outs in houses. They ought always to be provided. 
 
56 
 
 In some towns they are required ; whether in Philadelphia or 
 not, I do not know. 
 
 Q. By whom are they usually made — ^by the trolley com- 
 pany or by the owners of the house into which they run or 
 by what company ? 
 
 A. By the company that runs the wire into the house. 
 
 Q. Is there any more liabiHty to accident from coming in 
 contact with a trolley, due to the fact that they cannot be in- 
 sulated, but must be naked ? 
 
 A. Unquestionably. The middle trolley wire is necessarily 
 a bare wire. The feeding wires carrying the current to the 
 trolley wire are insulated wires ; sometimes they are under 
 ground. 
 
 Q. Is there any other class of wires that cannot be insulated 
 except the trolley ? Telegraph wires are insulated, are they 
 
 not ? 
 
 A. They are all uninsulated. Telephone wires are unin- 
 sulated ; that is, overhead wires. For underground construc- 
 tion, of course, they use a metal, but for overhead construc- 
 tion, telegraph and telephone wires are uninsulated. 
 
 Q. How about electric light wires ? 
 
 A. They are usually insulated. In fact, always. 
 
 Q. Therefore, have we not a liability to danger from acci- 
 dent due to the fact of these wires coming in contact and 
 being broken, very largely increased by reason of having all- 
 these uncovered wires ? 
 
 A. You are very liable to have contact between wires. 
 Whether it will be a serious danger or not depends upon how 
 the system is constructed. My own solution of the matter is 
 to put the other wires undetground. They can be, and the 
 trolley wire cannot. 
 
 Q. I understand you, then, that you would say that you 
 think all the other wires can be put underground, and that 
 that would be the best system with reference to them ? 
 
 A. I would modify that for suburban districts or where 
 there is very little traffic, where it would not pay to put wires 
 undei^ound, but for what you might call city work, I think 
 the other wires can be and ought to be put undei^round. 
 
 57 
 
 Q. Why do you think they ought to be put underground ? 
 
 A. The electric light wires used for arc lighting have a 
 voltage of all the way up to three thousand volts. That is 
 deadly. Any one touching them, if there is a break in the 
 circuit anywhere else, is liable to be killed. In storms, where 
 there is possibility of poles coming down, there is always a 
 possibility of touching these wires with a deadly current on 
 them. 
 
 Q. Can an arc light wire be put underground except where 
 it is necessary to bring it up in order to make the light ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Therefore you would say that good construction in 
 
 reference to these matters would be established by putting 
 the telephone and telegraph and electric light wires under- 
 ground ? 
 
 A. Within certain districts. Of course, you would have to 
 use a certain amount of discretion about that 
 
 Q. For the city of Philadelphia or the city of Baltimore, 
 and I mean by that the well built-up and comparatively cen- 
 tral portions ? 
 
 A. Yes; I would put them underground. 
 
 Q. Do you not think that it would be wisest, on the part 
 of the government of these large cities, to require that all of 
 theie wires should be put underground ? 
 
 A. I do not. It is a matter in which a great deal of dis- 
 cretion should be exercised. There are some cases where 
 they ought to be put underground, and others, within the 
 city limits, where they ought not. Some one, certainly, ought 
 to be appointed who could tell when they ought and when 
 they ought not to be put underground, and that person or 
 committee should decide. 
 
 Q. Of course, I assume that the city authorities would 
 exercise an intelligent discretion as to the distance where 
 they ought to be put underground, and what ought not to 
 be put underground. I assume all that, but I mean assuming 
 that that is done intelligently and discreetly, do you not 
 think that all wires should be put underground except those 
 which cannot be ? From your personal experience, do you 
 
58 
 
 not think all such wires ought to be put underground within 
 the districts where the population is such as I have stated ? 
 
 A. I should think it would be best to put them under- 
 ground. 
 
 O. Do you not think it would be wisest on the part of the 
 city authorities to have it done ? 
 
 A. That brings up many questions of the expense and one 
 thing or another. It would be a very good thing if it could 
 be done. There is no question about that. 
 
 Q. Do you know the fact or not that it has been done in 
 Chicago ? 
 
 A. They have underground lines in Chicago and Washing- 
 ton — underground arc lighting lines also in New York ? 
 
 Q. Have they any overhead lines in Chic^o ? 
 
 A. I do not know. When I was there last they had. 
 
 Q. Have they not recently required all the lines to be put 
 underground ? 
 
 A. I think many cities have required all the lines to be 
 put undei^ound. I do not know whether they have accom- 
 plished it or not in Chicago. 
 
 Q. How is it in New York ? 
 
 A. There are a great many overhead lines there, and some 
 wires in conduits. 
 
 Q. The mayor there cut the poles down, did he not ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. OSTRAM. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. What is your business ? 
 
 A. I am the Philadelphia agent for the Johnstown Com- 
 pany, of Johnstown, who manufacture rails for street rail- 
 ways, and construct street railways, as far as the track is con- 
 cerned. 
 
 Q. Does your business make you familiar with the different 
 streets in a number of the cities of this country, on which the 
 trolley system exists ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; more or less. 
 
 59 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the streets of Boston ? 
 
 A. I am not. I have not visited Boston since I have been 
 in my present business. 
 
 Q. What city are you familiar with outside of Philadel- 
 phia? Are you familiar with Baltimore ? 
 
 A. I am familiar with most of the cities on the Atlantic 
 coast from Scranton to Key West 
 
 Q. State the streets that you know of in other cities, of 
 about the same width as the average street in Philadelphia, 
 on which the trolley system is in actual use. 
 
 A. In Paterson, N. J., Mulberry Street is twenty-three 
 feet seven inches wide. In Toledo, Ohio, Huron Street is 
 twenty-six feet wide, and Oak Street is twenty-one feet 
 eight inches from curb to curb, as reported by our chief 
 engineer. In a letter received by him this morning there are 
 measurements taken by him made necessary to secure a spe- 
 cial work, and the curves and crosses are given. In Wilming- 
 ton, Del., Front Street is twenty-five feet wide, and there 
 have been two tracks on a street of that width. 
 
 Q. Two trolley wires ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. Ninth Street, Wilmington, is twenty-five 
 feet ; Eleventh Street, Wilmington, twenty-five feet ; Albany, 
 N. Y., Steuben Street, twenty-six feet ; Beaver Falls, Pa., 
 Tenth Street, twenty-six feet : Covington, Ky., Third Street, 
 twenty-six feet; Indianapolis, Ind., Brown Street, twenty- 
 five feet ; Atlanta, Ga., Richardson Street, twentj^-six feet ; 
 Chester, Pa., Second Street, twenty-four feet 
 
 The above list comprises a few of the streets that the 
 writer has personally measured, but does not represent any- 
 thing like as complete a list as could be made, if time were 
 given to a more thorough and extended canvass. 
 
 Q. What is the width of Chestnut Street, Philadelphia, 
 
 from curb to curb ? 
 
 A. I measured in front of this building this morning, and 
 it is twenty-six feet and two inches. I presume it is intended 
 for twenty-six feet In measuring we frequently find, in one 
 case, a curb will be from two to three inches in, and in another 
 place it will be narrowed. 
 
6o 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. STERN. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 
 Q. What is your business ? 
 
 A. I am the representative of the Edison General Electric 
 Company. I have here cut-outs for the purpose of protect- 
 ing buildings against the injurious effects of fires. 
 
 Q. That is, buildings into which electric light wires run ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; I have in my hand an article which is re- 
 quired by the rules and r^ulations of all the boards of fire 
 underwriters in the country. 
 
 Q. Required in what cases ? 
 
 A. In all cases where electric light wires are brought from 
 the street into the building. 
 
 Q. Is there any necessity for using them for telephone and 
 telegraph wires, or are they used that way ? 
 
 A. They are slightly modified for that purpose. 
 
 Q. That is, for electric light wires ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; entering a building. 
 
 Q. They are required by the board of underwriters of all 
 cities where electric wires are used ? 
 
 A. Yes ; and insurance is not granted on any building or 
 supposed not to be, unless after inspection is made by the in- 
 spector of the board of fire underwriters. Among other things, 
 it looks for this thing right at the entrance of the building. 
 
 Q. What is the effect of that thing ?. Is it possible for a fire 
 to occur ? 
 
 A. Absolutely impossible for this reason : The current in 
 passing through passes through a small piece of fuse wire that 
 melts at a very low temperature. It is just capable of carry- 
 ing the amount of current necessary to do the work for that 
 part. In case of a heavier current coming through, either be- 
 cause of a cross with some other electric light wire, or a trol- 
 ley line, or anything else that might interfere, this being the 
 weakest link of the chain, is the first thing to go, and it opens 
 the circuit. 
 
 Q. So that, if an accident should happen by reason of a 
 storm to an electric light wire, which should fall on a trolley 
 
 6i 
 
 wire, that would make it impossible for fire to occur in that 
 building in which it was used ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; under any circumstances whatever. 
 
 Q. What is the cost of it ? 
 
 A. Thirty cents. 
 
 Q. And a man cannot have an insurance on his prop- 
 erty who has an electric light wire running into his building 
 without the use of that contrivance ? 
 
 A. Certainly not. All contractors make a clause or a sec- 
 tion in their contract to that effect. 
 
 Q. So that, in actual practice, there is practically no trouble 
 or danger from accidents, such as have been spoken of, by 
 reason of an electric light wire falling on a trolley wire in any 
 house in which an electric light wire runs ? 
 
 A. It is absolutely impossible, if it is done according to the 
 rules and regulations of the board of fire underwriters. 
 
 Q. Is there any trouble about putting that on telephone 
 and telegraph wires? 
 
 A. No ; they have a slightly modified form. This is one of 
 many types used for that purpose. The wire coming from 
 the outside of the building passes in through a small helix, 
 down through that rod to the telephone, and with a normal 
 current it remains. In the presence of an abnormal large 
 current, that is energized and acts as I now show. 
 
 Q. What does that cost ? 
 
 A. I think that that sells for about seventy-five cents ; I am 
 not positive as to the exact price ; there are a great many of 
 these in use. ' 
 
 Q. So that, whatever danger there may be from a telegraph 
 or telephone wire falling on a trolley wire, it can be obviated 
 by the use of that ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The cost is not over seventy-five cents to make it impos- 
 sible for an accident to happen to any house by reason of con- 
 tact between the telephone or telegraph or burglar-alarm 
 
 wires, and the trolley wire ? 
 
 A. That is so, and I will be pleased to take a contract to 
 cover the entire city at twenty cents a wire if you use this 
 article that I have here. 
 
62 
 
 Cross-examination, 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. Do you know anything about the destruction of the 
 switch-board of the telephone system in Albany in March, 
 1 89 1, caused by a fire, caused or supposed to have been caused, 
 by electricity ? 
 
 A. I am not familiar with that particular switch-board. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the reports that were made of 
 the fire that occurred there ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. You don't know anything about that ? 
 
 A No, sir ; except that I know that there was such a fire, 
 but I never went to the trouble to inquire, because I have 
 always considered that fire to a switch-board was the result of 
 negligence entirely. This is a thing that has been known in 
 the arts for years. 
 
 ' Q. Then you think that, if there was a fire, it would be 
 simply n^ligence ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; entirely so. 
 
 Q. You know that there are a great many reports pub- 
 lished from time to time of similar accidents to that which 
 occurred in Albany ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you taken the trouble to see whether they were 
 caused by similar negligence or not ? 
 A. I have ; yes, sir. 
 Q. That is usually the case, is it ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; I think you will find preventatives used in 
 every one of those cities where they have had trouble. After 
 the horse was stolen they generally locked the stable-door. 
 
 Q. You do not think, then, that there is any necessity for 
 any guard wires, or any act of prevention, except this little 
 machine which you have described ? 
 
 A. I should use guard wires if I was operating a railway 
 system for my own protection, because every link that would 
 come across there would mean so much coal out of my coal 
 pile. 
 
 63 
 
 Q. How many guard wires would you use along one of our 
 streets for the protection of a trolley wire ? 
 
 A. That would depend entirely on how many wires hap- 
 pened to be likely to fall in case of a sleet storm. That is alL 
 
 Q. You are familiar with the city, are you not ? 
 A. Yes, sir ; fairly so. 
 
 Q. Where there are forty or fifty wires running along a 
 street, and at the crossings, perhaps, double or treble that num- 
 ber, what would you say would be a proper system to protect ? 
 
 A. Do you mean fifty wires running parallel ? 
 
 Q. I mean simply running parallel or transversely. 
 A. Under conditions of that kind I would be apt not to 
 put any on. 
 Q. Why not? 
 
 A. Because I would not want to put up a structure that 
 would hold all those fifty wires in case they dropped. 
 
 Q. You would not think that having all those wires there 
 would render an accident more liable to occur than if there 
 was only one ? 
 
 A. Well, I wouldn't say necessarily ; no, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you think there would be some reason if there were 
 only a few ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; I should think so, and they were put up upon 
 weak and small supports. 
 
 Q. I have understood you to say that where there were so 
 many of those other wires, as I have described, you would not 
 undertake to do it, because it would be necessary to put up a 
 heavy structure to protect against such a large volume of wires. 
 Can you not come down to any number that you consider 
 smaller, against which you think it would be necessary to 
 put this thing up ? 
 
 A. I wouldn't base that upon number at all ; for instance, 
 here wires are scattered here, there, and everywhere ; on the 
 house-tops, which are objectionable to firemen and everybody 
 else. Things that are weak and liable to fall, and for my own 
 protection 1 should put up guard wires, but in no case would 
 I allow them to exceed three in number on a double trolley 
 line. 
 
64 
 
 Q. Running parallel with it or at right angles with it ? 
 
 A. Parallel with the line itself. 
 
 Q. Would you not then have to have wires running at right 
 angles in order to support those ? 
 A. No necessarily. 
 Q. How would you support them ? 
 
 A. With insulators upon the original span wire, if necessary. 
 
 Q. Taking our streets, where I suppose it is not probable 
 that they will undertake to run the poles from the centre of 
 the streets but from the sides of them, how then would you 
 support the trolley wire and also those guard wires of which 
 you have spoken ? 
 
 A. Your span wire moves from pole to pole, aad is carried 
 from pole to pole either side of the street. From that you 
 hang an insulator which is a distance, say, seven inches below 
 the line of the span wire itself. There is nothing in the 
 world to hinder me from putting two insulators upon my 
 span, where it would be seven inches above the trolley wire, 
 and upon that carrying a guard wire. 
 
 Q. How many wires would that make in any street accord- 
 ing to your system — I mean at any given point ? 
 
 A. What do you mean by my system ? 
 
 Q. I mean what you have suggested. 
 
 A. In addition to the trolley wire, it means three guard 
 wires on a two trolley line on a double-track road, and the 
 span wire. The feed wires depend entirely upon circum- 
 stances. It might be carried on a pole or underneath the 
 ground. 
 
 Q. How many feed wires would there be — one ? 
 
 A. That would depend entirely on the number of cars run, 
 the speed, the grades on which they were to run, and the 
 length. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley : 
 
 Q. Do you know of any insurance company in the United 
 States, or any town or city in which there is a trolley system, 
 that has ever increased the rate of insurance on any property 
 to the extent of one penny, by reason of the erection and the 
 
 operation of the trolley system ? 
 A. Absolutely none. 
 
 65 
 
 m 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. FIELD. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 
 Q. What is your business ? 
 
 A. Electrical engineer and contractor. 
 
 Q. How long have you been in that business ? 
 A. About eight years. 
 
 Q. You are the president of what association ? 
 
 A. Of the Field Engineering Company. 
 
 Q. What electrical roads have you been engineer for ? 
 
 A. Buffalo, Newark, Paterson, Trenton, and a number of 
 others around the country. 
 
 Q. So that you are thoroughly familiar with the trolley sys- 
 tem, are you ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. What do you know about the Buda-Festh conduit 
 system that has been spoken of ? 
 
 A. We had heard a good deal about it, and last winter we 
 went to the expense of sending one of our engineers over 
 there to make an examination of it and report to our company 
 for the purposes of our business. We found, as the result of 
 that, that the road had been put in as an experiment, and had 
 been carried on as an experiment — had been carried on a year 
 by them as an experiment there — and that there had been a 
 continuous series of changes from the beginning to try and 
 remedy defects and troubles that they had had with it The 
 result of our report was that we could not recommend it to 
 anybody to experiment for the present, in this country. 
 
 Q. If it was a practical success — if it could be used — I 
 should think you would be too glad to have it, and would 
 recommend it ? 
 
 A. Yes, we would put it in quickly, for it would help us 
 with our work. 
 
 Q. What were the defects found in it there ? Could it be 
 run in the winter time ? • 
 
 A. They had had trouble with it in the winter right along. 
 
 The climate there is much milder than here and different in 
 
 many other respects. The local conditions there are dififer- 
 
66 
 
 cnt from almost any city in this country and everything tends 
 to help it to its advant^e there, as to locality, &c. 
 Q Do you know the length of it ? 
 
 A. It has been extended so that it is now, I believe, over 
 
 ten miles long. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether carriages and wagons use tne 
 track upon which the cars run ? 
 
 A It was impossible for them to use the tracks, i he rail 
 is such a one that no city would let us put it down m this 
 country. A wagon cannot track on it. 
 
 Q. What kind of a street or streets is it used on there ? 
 
 A. Their paved streets partially. 
 
 Q. Narrow or wide streets ? 
 • A. Their wide streets as a rule, so that a wagon can keep 
 
 away from the track. 
 
 Q. Please describe what is the peculiarity of the rail usea 
 
 there 
 
 A. * The rail is a kind of double T-rail, like we use on steam 
 railroad work in this country. That is the nearest thing we 
 
 hrvetoit ^ 
 Q The same as the double T-rail of the steam roads ? 
 A. Yes, sir; with a centre grooved wheel, and the slot is 
 
 in the rail. , 
 Q. What about the storage battery system ? Do you know 
 
 of any road in the country in which it is used ? 
 
 A There has never been a road in which the storage bat- 
 tery has been accepted by it and operated by it. When it 
 has ever been put in, as long as it was running it was kept there 
 until the pocket-book of the company that put it in had be- 
 come exhausted. 
 
 g. In other words, it has always been put there by the ex- 
 ploiters of the particular battery ? 
 
 A Yes sir. 
 
 Q. It has been put there at their expense, as an expcri- 
 n^jent, to have it tested, in order to try to have companies 
 
 adopt it ? , J • 
 
 A. Yes, sir. They are continually breaking down and in 
 
 trouble, and it wants very favorable conditions for them to 
 operate at all. 
 
 67 
 
 Q. Do you know whether the conduit system has been 
 tried and experimented here ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; it has been experimented on in four or five 
 different parts of the country — Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and 
 one or two other places. 
 
 Q. And always abandoned as an impossibility ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. The West End Road in Boston went into it 
 with a desire to have it succeed, and put down five miles, 
 spending several hundred thousand dollars trying to make it 
 a success, and the city at the end of two years gave them 
 overhead franchises to replace it there, and in the other parts 
 of the city, as it delayed people and the public there by 
 breaking down from storms. 
 
 Q. You have erected a number of trolley roads ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Take the streets of Philadelphia. You know about the 
 lengths of the squares. How many poles would there be 
 erected on a block in Philadelphia, and how far apart ? 
 
 A. One every one hundred and twenty-five or one hundred 
 and forty feet. 
 
 Q. It has been said by one gentleman who professed to 
 have some knowledge on this subject, that the poles would 
 have to be seventy-five feet apart only? 
 
 A. I have built the heaviest kinds of lines in the largest 
 towns, and I never used a pole, unless it was on a curve, less 
 than one hundred and twenty-five feet. It comes down to a 
 question of good construction — poor work for little towns 
 costing ^locx) and ^2000 a mile, and good work for larger 
 towns costing |l8ooo or |lio,ooa 
 
 Q. Which is the cheapest — ^to put poles seventy-five or 
 one hundred and twenty-five feet apart ? 
 
 A. To put them seventy-five feet apart. 
 
 Q. It is cheaper to put them that close together than one 
 hundred and twenty-five feet apart ? 
 
 A, Yes, sir ; you can put up a lighter line; 
 
 Q. In your experience, and from your knowledge on the 
 subject, what is the extent of danger to life, of which so much 
 has been said, and about which so much talk has occurred ? 
 
68 
 
 A. No passenger on any electric car has ever had a shock 
 from riding on them that there is any record of, that I know 
 of. The employes in the station handling the motors, &c., 
 nearly every one has had a shock, and they are all alive to- 
 day and in good health. 
 
 Q. Is there any way in which a person, not a workman 
 connected with the line, could by any possibility come in con- 
 tact with that wire eighty feet above the ground except by 
 climbing up and taking hold of it ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Or in the very rare case in which a wire might break 
 and strike him ? 
 
 A. If the wire broke and came down it would be immedi- 
 ately cut off at the station. It would be a dead wire. In any 
 well-built system the wires are so arranged and cut up into 
 sections that if by any accident any wire should be broken 
 down, it would be immediately cut out at the station, or 
 would be a dead wire, and could give no trouble at all. 
 
 Q. Cut out automatically ? 
 
 A. Automatically, or by hand-switch, either one. It can 
 be made automatically, if desired. 
 
 Q. Suppose a wire touched the ground before any man or 
 horse came in contact with it, what would be the result ? 
 
 A. If it touched the earth or wet ground, it would bum off 
 and hang loose above the ground. 
 
 Q. Would the current pass into the ground ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; for the moment, until the wire was burned off, 
 and then it would be disconnected. 
 
 Q. So that, even in case a trolley wire should break down, 
 it could not, by any possibility, as I understand you, even 
 shock a person unless he came in contact with it before it 
 had touched the ground ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; that is just it. 
 
 Q. That is to say, that unless that wire touched some man 
 or some horse passing on the street before it touched the 
 ground, he could not by any possibility even receive a shock, 
 for the reason that the moment it falls to the ground the 
 current passes off? • 
 
 69 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you ever known or heard of a well-authenticated 
 case that can be relied on, in which such an accident hap- 
 pened as a person getting shocked or hurt on the street 
 by reason of any line coming in contact with a trolley wire 
 before the current had been discharged into the ground ? 
 
 A. No, sir. We see cases mentioned in the newspapers 
 once in a while, but when they are examined they are cleared 
 up and found to be a mistake of the reporter wanting to be 
 in too much of a hurry to get some news. 
 
 Q. Where such accidents have happened they have been 
 very largely with electrict light wires ? 
 
 A. Very lat^eiy caused by other wires falling over them. 
 
 Q. And blamed on the trolley ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Have you ever known of the case of a fire happening 
 to a building along a street in which the trolley wire system 
 is used, which was caused directly or indirectly by the trolley 
 system ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Suppose a trolley wire should break and drop on the 
 stones instead of on the rail, what would be the effect as to 
 the current ? 
 
 A. Do you mean in wet or dry weather ? 
 
 Q. I mean in either. 
 
 A. There might be a few little sparks, of course, but there 
 would be no damage or anything done. 
 
 Q. What I mean, would the current pass down through the 
 stones into the earth or would it be a live wire ? 
 
 A. On a dry day it would not have much passage of cur- 
 rent at all. 
 
 Q. But it would be cut off at the station ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Within how many seconds or minutes ? 
 A. Within two or three seconds. 
 
 Q. It would be cut off even if the current did not pass 
 down into the earth by reason of its being a dry day ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
Q. If it was a wet day and there was moisture on the 
 
 stones, what then ? 
 
 A. It would be just the same as though it hit the rail. 
 Q. It would pass down instantly ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that there is no possibility of a man being hurt by 
 the breaking of a wire, except in the extremely improbable 
 case of the wire striking him at some place in the body be- 
 fore it would touch the ground ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 By A Member : 
 
 Q. How long has that cut-off been in operation ? 
 A. There are a number of places where they have been us- 
 ing it for the last year. 
 By Another Member : 
 
 Q. What would be the effect if a wire dropped between 
 two poles and did not strike the ground, coming within six 
 or eight inches of it ? 
 
 A. Nothing would happen. 
 
 Q. It would be a live wire ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. Nothing would happen at all. 
 
 Q. How about if anybody came along there ? 
 
 A. If it was a wet day, and you took hold of it, you might 
 get a little shock. 
 
 Cross-examination. 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. You consider the trolley a very innocent sort of thing, 
 
 don't you ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You also consider that these newspapers that have been 
 publishing all these fearful accounts of accidents have simple 
 been exaggerating or drawing upon their imagination, do 
 you ? 
 
 A. That thing has been thrashed out in a good many 
 hearings and examinations, and it has been found invariably 
 that those accounts were exaggerated and dfd not represent 
 the exact facts as they occurred. 
 
 71 
 
 Q. How do you account for that ? Do you suppose that 
 all the newspaper reporters who get up these accounts are 
 very ignorant of their business ? 
 
 A. They are usually, as a rule, ig^norant of the electric 
 business, and want to get sensational items. 
 
 Q. They are ignorant, then, of the subject-matter about 
 which they are writing, are they ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you consider that they are careless ? 
 
 A. That depends upon circumstances and upon the man. 
 
 Q. I mean as to the facts which they are undertaking to 
 
 give to the public ? 
 
 A. A good many times ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you would say, taking it as a whole, that newspa- 
 per accounts as to dangers and accidents in connection with 
 the trolley system, are simply a series of misrepresentations ? 
 Do you mean to say that ? 
 
 A. There have not been a large number of those reports. 
 They have been very few in number. They are repeated 
 over, and one case is made into two or three cases. 
 
 Q. Then you think that in this respect newspaper publica- 
 tions are either absolutely false or totally unqualified, do you ? 
 
 A. In a measure. I say in general the facts in those cases 
 are exaggerated very largely. 
 
 Q. You do know the fact that there are constantly pub- 
 lications in the newspapers about these things ? 
 
 A. Once in a while ; yes, sir. • 
 
 Q. Don't they occur frequently ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you read the newspapers very often } 
 A. Every day. 
 
 Q. Yet you know say that the publications of these acci- 
 dents and dangers from the trolley are numerous in the 
 papers ? 
 
 A. I claim this: That taking the amount of use of the 
 trolley wire, as compared with other uses and forces that we 
 have in the present day, the accidents from the trolley wire 
 are a great deal smaller in percents^e than from any other uses 
 
70 
 
 Q. If it was a wet day and there was moisture on the 
 
 stones, what then ? 
 
 A. It would be just the same as though it hit the rail. 
 Q. It would pass down instantly ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. So that there is no possibility of a man being hurt by 
 the breaking of a wire, except in the extremely improbable 
 case of the wire striking him at some place in the body be- 
 fore it would touch the ground ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 By A Member : 
 
 Q. How long has that cut-off been in operation ? 
 A. There are a number of places where they have been us- 
 ing it for the last year. 
 
 By Another Member : 
 
 Q. What would be the effect if a wire dropped between 
 two poles and did not strike the ground, coming within six 
 or eight inches of it ? 
 
 A. Nothing would happen. 
 
 Q. It would be a live wire ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. Nothing would happen at all. 
 
 Q. How about if anybody came along there ? 
 
 A. If it was a wet day, and you took hold of it, you might 
 get a little shock. 
 
 Cross-examination. 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. You consider the trolley a very innocent sort of thing, 
 
 don't you ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You also consider that these newspapers that have been 
 publishing all these fearful accounts of accidents have simple 
 been exaggerating or drawing upon their imagination, do 
 you ? 
 
 A. That thing has been thrashed out in a good many 
 hearings and examinations, and it has been found invariably 
 that those accounts were exaggerated and did not represent 
 the exact facts as they occurred. 
 
 Q. How do you account for that ? Do you suppose that 
 all the newspaper reporters who get up these accounts are 
 very ignorant of their business ? 
 
 A. They are usually, as a rule, ignorant of the electric 
 
 business, and want to get sensational items. 
 
 Q. They are ignorant, then, of the subject-matter about 
 which they are writing, are they ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you consider that they are careless ? 
 
 A. That depends upon circumstances and upon the man. 
 Q. I mean as to the facts which they are undertaking to 
 give to the public ? 
 
 A. A good many times ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you would say, taking it as a whole, that newspa- 
 per accounts as to dangers and accidents in connection with 
 the trolley system, are simply a series of misrepresentations ? 
 
 Do you mean to say that ? 
 
 A. There have not been a large number of those reports. 
 They have been very few in number. 'They are repeated 
 over, and one case is made into two or three cases. 
 
 Q. Then you think that in this respect newspaper publica- 
 tions are either absolutely false or totally unqualified, do you ? 
 
 A. In a measure. I say in general the facts in those cases 
 are exaggerated very largely. 
 
 Q. You do know the fact that there are constantly pub- 
 lications in the newspapers about these things ? 
 
 A. Once in a while ; yes, sir. * 
 
 Q. Don't they occur frequently ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you read the newspapers very often ? 
 A. Every day. 
 
 Q. Yet you know say that the publications of these acci- 
 dents and dangers from the trolley are not numerous in the 
 papers ? 
 
 A. I claim this: That taking the amount of use of the 
 trolley wire, as compared with other uses and forces that we 
 have in the present day, the accidents from the trolley wire 
 are a great deal smaller in percentage than from any other uses 
 
72 
 
 and forces that we have, whether this system or anything else, 
 and they pay no attention to the other things and magnify 
 these. I can refer you to accidents without number. 
 
 Q. Why do you think the newspaper reports are mainly 
 confined to trolley accidents ? 
 
 A. It is generally in places where the trolley has not been 
 introduced. Where it has been introduced you will find that 
 the papers invariably are using it 
 
 Q. Have you been reading the Albany papers ? 
 
 A. I read them very seldom. 
 
 Q. Have you read any of the Boston papers ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; once in a while. 
 
 Q. Don't you find them sometimes attacking the trolley ? 
 A. One or two newspapers do ; yes, sir. 
 Q. Pretty severely ? 
 
 A. I know that they are trying to hurry them up to get 
 them to introdnce it in other parts of the city. 
 
 Q. Don't you know that some of the newspapers there are 
 attacking it ? 
 
 A. One or two, I believe, do sometimes ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Then you think that the statements which you sec now 
 and then in the newspapers attacking the trolley sire either 
 due to ignorance, or to misrepresentation, or to carelessness in 
 obtaining information ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 STATEMENT OF MR. HIGGINS. 
 
 By Mr. Shaple\ : 
 
 Q. What is your business ? 
 
 A. I am the general manager of the Short Electric Rail- 
 way Company of Cleveland. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with electric roads in this country ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How long have you been so ? 
 
 A. About four years. 
 
 Q. You have a road in Cleveland ? 
 
 73 
 
 A. No, sir ; the company with which I am connected is a 
 manufacturing corporation. 
 
 Q. You do not erect the trolley system ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; we erect it, but we do not run it afterwards. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with it in other cities besides Cleve- 
 land — with its operation and its advantages and disadvantages ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you acquainted with the literature on the subject? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Are you acquainted with the opinions of experts and 
 railroad men generally on the subject ? 
 A. Yes, sir.- 
 
 Q. Before speaking of the trolley system, you have heard 
 the testimony of other witnesses with regard to storage bat- 
 teries. Have you ever heard of a conipany that has run, as a 
 success, the storage batteiy ? 
 
 A. Never. 
 
 Q. Is there any company in the United States that is doing 
 it outside of the one in Washington, that has been spoken of? 
 A. I .do not know of any. 
 
 Q. You would be likely to know of them, if there were any ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. It would be your business to know ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Taking the conduit system, is there any such system 
 known to you or to your profession that is practicable in this 
 country ? 
 
 A. No, sir; absolutely none. 
 
 Q. Is there any other way that you know of in running a 
 
 surface road except by the horse, the steam, or the trolley 
 system ? 
 
 A. There is also the cable system. There is no other 
 system. 
 
 Q. State your experience briefly in regard to the advantages 
 
 and the alleged disadvantages or objections to this system. 
 
 A. I think one point has perhaps not been brought out ; at 
 least 1 have not heard it, though I have not been here very 
 much. The great advantage, in my mind, of the trolley 
 
74 
 
 system is found in the complete control of the car. In the 
 trolley system you have one feature which tends much to that 
 control better than any other, inasmuch as you can reverse it 
 instantly in case of threatened danger. By a simple move- 
 ment of the switch the current can be turned on with a force 
 four or five times as great as is used in propelling it — a force 
 so great that while the car is moving forward the wheels may 
 be spinning backward in the attempt to get a grip on the rail. 
 That means, of course, that besides having the whole brake- 
 part of the car available, you have the electrical part avail- 
 able for running it backward, and in one case where a man 
 had been knocked down by the dash-board of an electric car, 
 before he reached the first motor the car was stopped and 
 reversed. That, however, would not be true if it was going 
 at a rapid rate of speed. It would be anywhere from a car 
 length. A car could usually be stopped in a car length. 
 
 Q. In other words, suppose a car was running in a crowded 
 street where it would have to run at the rate of not over six 
 miles an hour, and people were passing, the advantage that it 
 has in that respect over the horse-car would be, as I under- 
 stand you, this : In the horse-car you have no power to stop 
 it except the power of the brake, whereas in the trolley car 
 3'ou have the power of the brake, and added to that the full 
 power of the motor. 
 
 A. The very enormous power of the motor — ^as I say, three 
 or four times as great as is used in propelling the car forward. 
 There is a familiar electrical reason for that which it is not 
 necessary to explain here. 
 
 Q. You have heard the statements of other experts here in 
 regard to accidents. You would be likely to know, I suppose, 
 of well authenticated cases of accident that have happened, 
 would you not ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. State any cases that you have ever heard of in the two 
 hundred and fifty cities with seven thousand cars, either ac- 
 tually built or being put on the four thousand miles of tracks of 
 this system. State any accidents that you have ever heard 
 of to any one outside of the workmen, on this trolley S3^tem. 
 
 75 
 
 A. The question of danger comes right down to this : 
 When the trolley system was first introduced and started, it 
 
 was foreseen that the great objection to it in the minds of the 
 public would be the question of a bare overhead wire. It 
 was seen also that that objection must be overcome if the 
 system was to be made a commercial success, by making the 
 pressure so low as not to be dangerous to life. Now, as a 
 matter of fact, there has never been, to my knowledge, and I 
 believe I can say positively, a case of deadly accident from 
 the trolley system. That, of course, is negative testimony. 
 On the other side, as positive testimony, I could go out to-day 
 and get the affidavit of thousands or more people who 
 are employed in making the motors, and right amongst the 
 machinery in the stations, that they have taken a full shock 
 with only momentary inconvenience. I have myself known 
 a number of cases of that sort where the full shock has been 
 taken. As far as the question of horses is concerned, there 
 have been a few records of where horses have been killed by 
 the current. 
 
 Q. State the outside number, including every doubtful 
 case. 
 
 A. I have never known myself of more than three or four 
 well authenticated cases. I have myself been present at an 
 experiment, which would perhaps be of a little value here, 
 where a worn-out street-car horse was put into a closed stall and 
 a wire wound around his body several times. He* was placed 
 upon an iron dash-board, so that all four feet rested upon it, 
 making a first-rate electrical circuit. The ground wire of a 
 dynamo was connected to this, and five hundred and ten 
 volts, or a little over, were administered to the horse. He 
 jumped and started. It was on for about fifteen seconds, I 
 think. After the result of the thing he was led off as good 
 as new. I believe the stableman said the current had a sort 
 of laxative effect on him for a few hours. That was the only 
 result That was done twice. 
 
 There are some horses very sensitive, the same as men are, 
 to a current, and I think it quite possible that some horses 
 would have a nervous system which would make it impossible 
 
to administer that without death. At the same time, it is 
 very rarely in any case of that sort that it comes up in 
 practice. 
 
 Q. Did you ever know of a horse taking a step-ladder and 
 climbing up eighteen feet in the air to get hold of a trolley 
 wire? 
 
 A. Not outside of a circus. 
 
 Q. Then the only way in which a horse could possibly be 
 injured would be where the trolley wire would break? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. • 
 
 Q. The horse, of course, cannot get to the wire, and the wire 
 cannot get to the horse, unless it breaks ? 
 
 A. That is true. 
 
 Q. What is the result, if a wire breaks, with the appliances 
 used for the purpose of cutting off the current instantly ? 
 
 A. If a wire should fall upon the ground, as has been stated, 
 it would be automatically cut off. 
 
 Q. The current would pass into the ground instantly ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. The wire would be a dead wire, that you could put into 
 your mouth with safety ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; I would not hesitate, if I put up the appliances 
 and the whole matter, to go up and take hold of a wire in 
 that way, and it would make no difference in use whether the 
 wire should break in the middle between two poles or not, 
 supposing that only a part of it should remain only six or 
 eight inches above the ground. The other half, in the fall, 
 would strike the ground and cut out a whole section of a 
 thousand feet, so that a wire suspended above the track would 
 be dead, the same as the wire which touched the ground. 
 
 Q. If I understand you, it is impossible for a horse to be 
 hurt, or a human being to be hurt, or even shocked, except in 
 the extremely improbable case that this wire should just 
 happen to strike some horse or man before it touched th^ 
 ground at any place ? 
 
 A. If the circuit is properly put up. 
 
 Q. Have you ever known, and I do not speak of your per- 
 sonal knowledge, but of cases which have been brought to 
 
 77 
 
 your attention, of an accident from fire to a house on any 
 street on the thousands of miles on which this system is used, 
 due directly or indirectly to the use of the trolley wire ? 
 
 A* I know of nothing personally in that way. It would 
 not be impossible, however, in some places to have it 
 occur. 
 
 Q. Would it be possible with a system properly constructed 
 as they are constructing them now ? 
 
 A. No, sir; I think it would be impossible. I think it 
 should be made impossible. 
 
 Q. It can be made impossible, also, can it not ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; entirely, I think. There is no question about 
 that. 
 
 Q. Do you know of a single insurance company in the 
 United States that has ever raised the insurance on any house 
 property along the line of trolley wires to the extent of one 
 penny in consequence of trolley wires running in front it ? 
 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. It has been stated here very recently, and as a matter 
 of prophecy, in some of these letters written by certain Pitts- 
 burg lawyers, that property will, and has, depreciated along 
 the streets on which the wire runs. What is your knowledge 
 on that subject ? 
 
 A. I think that, on the contrary, property has increased, 
 not only in the suburban districts, but also in the built-up 
 portions of the city, because the facilities given to people from 
 the suburban parts to the stores has more than counteracted 
 the disadvantage of overhead wires. 
 
 Q. It has been said, and said with some force, and I say 
 that because I myself have seen some of these systems in 
 which the noise was undoubtedly annoying, that the general 
 experience is that people are greatly annoyed and incom- 
 moded by the noise. State all you know on that subject, 
 good and bad. 
 
 A. There has been a great deal of complaint on that score, 
 and as you say, justly. It has been due to the fact that in 
 the motors adopted by the different roads up to about a year 
 ^o there have been eight gears to a car. Those eight gears 
 
78 
 
 are done away with entirely now in the later types of motors^ 
 and in all of the types that have been adopted one-half of 
 them have been done away with. The noise of the cars 
 which have been going into service within the last six or eight 
 months is something which is not as great as one of the old- 
 fashioned horse-cars with rattling windows. In other words, 
 you have more noise from horses and horse-cars than you do 
 from the later types of motors. There is nothing that can be 
 more quiet than the Newark electric cars. 
 
 Q. Will it cost the Traction Company any more to put on 
 the new ones than it would to put on the older system, if this- 
 ordinance should be adopted ? 
 
 A. It probably would, although not very much more. There 
 have been improvements in the process of manufacture which 
 make the cost practically the same. 
 
 Q. Then you say that, if the proper appliances are put on 
 and the new and improved motors, the matter of noise will be 
 of no account whatever ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; it is less than horses. 
 
 Q. Is that the experience of other people ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; I could take you to roads where you would 
 find the cars were less noisy than other roads now operating, 
 horses. I would like to state another advantage, which is ia 
 the reliability of the service. That is, perhaps, a thing which 
 you will be doubtful about, but it is true that electric service, 
 properly put up, is more reliable than cable or horse service. 
 The cable system is liable to a complete stoppage on ac- 
 count of breaking the cable. It runs all the cars. In an. 
 electric system, properly put up, it is only possible in the case 
 of an accident happening to any one portion of the line for 
 that to apply to that one section, varying from one thousand 
 to two thousand feet, and on both sides of that section the 
 cut-out current goes on, and the cars go on operating as- 
 before. In snow storms electric cars have been found by 
 actual experience to be more reliable and to keep up closer 
 schedule time than either horses or the cable system. That 
 is simply a matter of fact capable of demonstration. 
 
 Q. Do you know of other streets in other cities of the; 
 
 79 
 
 width and general character of the streets of Philadelphia on 
 which this system is used successfully and satisfactorily ? 
 
 A. The streets of Boston are much worse for the electric 
 system than they are here. 
 
 Q. Are you familiar with the streets of Boston ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; they are crooked and narrow, as is pretty gener- 
 ally known, I suppose, and there have been complaints from 
 time to time in Boston about the gorging of the streets by the 
 trolley cars. That is simply a legacy of the old system, 
 joined to the fact that the trolley cars carry a far greater 
 number of people than the old horse-cars ever did. 
 
 Q. They are larger, are they not ? 
 
 A. Yes ; they have had to make them lai^er in order to- 
 prevent that gorge and to carry the people. There are two 
 lines in Boston, the Washington Street Line and the Tre- 
 mont Street Line, paralleling each other just a block apart. 
 They put the trolley system upon Tremont Street, the line 
 next to the Common. Before that it was the Washington 
 Street line which was goi^ed, and that carried nearly all the 
 people. That travel has departed to the Tremont Street 
 line almost completely. Tremont Street is filled up with cars 
 to such an extent that there are very serious delays there, be- 
 cause if you get cars ten feet apart, say along a stretch of two 
 thousand feet, it is impossible to make rapid transit, no mat- 
 ter how fast cars can go. 
 
 Q. I refer particularly to the question whether the system 
 is used successfully and satisfactory in streets as narrow as 
 the streets of Philadelphia ? 
 
 A, Yes, sir ; more so. 
 
 Q. And as much crowded ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; narrower streets — streets more crowded. 
 
 Q. It is said, and has been said with a great deal of em- 
 phasis, that, by reason of the character of our streets as to 
 width, the territorial character of the city of Philadelphia, 
 the thickly built-up portions of it, the way in which the 
 streets cross at right angles, that the trolley system is imprac- 
 ticable here and objectionable, more so than it would be else- 
 where. State whether it is used in sections of ©ther cities 
 
So 
 
 similar substantially to Philadelphia in the built-up portions 
 of the cities, and the crowded portions of the cities, the por- 
 tions having narrow streets ? 
 
 A. It is. It is used with entire success. There is no ques- 
 tion whatever about that. 
 
 Q. Does Boston have overhead electric light, telegraph, 
 and telephone wires ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Or are they underground ? 
 
 A. They are overhead, I think, almost entirely. I have 
 not been there myself to know very much about them for the 
 year past. 
 
 Cross-examination, 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. You have spoken of the fact that noise has been re- 
 duced to a minimum, as I understand you — ^that it is not 
 nearly as annoying as a horse-car ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Is there any noise that proceeds from the friction be- 
 tween the trolley and the wire ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; there is a slight hissing sound. 
 Q. Are there any sparks emitted from that ? 
 A. Occasionally; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you know whether horses have any particular fear 
 of that particular thing — the noise that comes from the trol- 
 ley — its motion and the sparks. 
 
 A. They do for about a week after it is first introduced. 
 They get accustomed to it very quickly. In Cleveland a 
 horse would never think for a moment of starting at it in any 
 way. 
 
 Q. Is it not true that you can frequently educate a horse 
 to almost anything in the shape of noise, when he finds that 
 it does not hurt him ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. How is it as regards the fact of the education—do you 
 think it is a very agreeable thing to be on a vehicle in a nar- 
 row street, where you are between a car propelled by elec- 
 
 8i 
 
 tricity on one side and the curbstone on the other side, with 
 a space from one to the other of about ten feet ? 
 
 A. The most of the fright horses have is not so much at 
 noise, as from the fact that there are no horses propelling the 
 cars. Now, if you change from the horse-car system to the 
 cable system, you would have the same fright with horses as 
 in the change from the horse*car line to the electric line. If 
 horses are accustomed to the cable line here, there will not be 
 the slightest necessity for education. 
 
 Q. Suppose I was to tell you of a gentleman who had his 
 horses here and had them perfectly broken to cable-cars, and 
 who used to pass under the cars on Twenty-second Street 
 where the elevated Pennsylvania Raihoad comes, who took 
 his horses tb Newport, and that they there came in contact 
 with the trolley, became alarmed and frightened, and subse- 
 quently could never be induced to approach these places after- 
 wards when they came back to Philadelphia, being so much 
 demoralized that they were even frightened at the cable -cars. 
 Do you think that is improbable ? 
 
 A. No, sir; that is quite a possible case, but that would be 
 explained by the fact that the hissing sound of the trolley 
 would not be perceptible here in this city in the multitude 
 of other noises whidi you have. In Newport it is very 
 quiet. 
 
 Q. You have spoken of the multitude of noises which 
 would deaden that hissing sound, but take the case of a trol- 
 ley running along a place not occupied as densely as Chestnut 
 Street, and with vehicles not as thick upon it, where there is 
 not that lot pf noise of which you speak, or that tumult of 
 noises, would not the noise which proceeds from that trolley 
 be likely to produce an effect upon a horse when he first came 
 in contact with it ? 
 
 A. It is possible. 
 
 Q. Is it not probable ? 
 
 A. Well, I do not know. 
 
 Q. I mean a horse that had any nervousness ? 
 
 A. I honestly do not know about that. I do not know 
 the sensation of a horse exactly, and which element of the 
 
82 
 
 two things enters most into his mind when he takes fright at 
 an electric car. 
 
 Q. Has it not, however, been your observation that it 
 would be dangerous for a man to find himself between meet- 
 ing a trolley-car in a street of the width of which I have 
 
 spoken, where the distance from the track to the curbstone 
 was only ten or eleven feet ? Would you not think it was 
 rather a dangerous place with a spirited horse for the hrst 
 time to encounter such a thing ? 
 
 A. Well, I wouldn't like to try it. That is one of the cases 
 where I think that a short time devoted to the education of 
 the horse is well paid for by the advantage of having a rapid 
 transit. 
 
 Q. In other words, you think that it would be the duty of 
 all persons who had horses, after this system was introduced, 
 to put their horses through a system of education ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. And that if they did not, they probably would run the 
 risk of having their necks broken ? That is it, is it not ? 
 A. Yes, ^r ; I think so. 
 
 Q. Is it possible to eliminate from the trolley s^em, 
 while it has the trolley wheel which revolves upon the trolley 
 wire, that element of danger arising from that cause ? 
 
 A. That is a question a little difficult to answer. The 
 hissing sound is due to the fact that you have there a wheel 
 revolving at a high rate of speed upon that trolley wire. 
 Now, the company with which I am connected, as a matter 
 of fact, at first started out with sliding-shoe on that trolley 
 instead of a wheel, that shoe having a piece of soft metal in- 
 serted which did away with the noise ; but there were disad- 
 vantages about that which chiefly showed themselves in the 
 wearing away of the trolley wire, and consequently a tend- 
 mcy to break at the weakest point after con^derable wear, so 
 that that was abandoned and the wheel substituted. I hon- 
 estly think that that matter of the hissing noise is one of the 
 extremely minor things — one to which the horses very quickly 
 get accustomed; and I base that upon my knowledge, which 
 h positive knowledge, that with any other city in which the 
 
 83 
 
 trolley system is in operation, where I have been, and that is 
 quite a number, T find that the horses pay no more attention 
 to an electric car than they do to another, or to a locomotive. 
 
 Q. Are you anything of a horseman yourself ? 
 
 A No, sir; not very much. 
 
 Q. Then you have not had much experience in driving a 
 horse along by trolley cars when they first started ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; I have driven a horse several times. 
 
 Q. Did you not observe that the horse, the first time that 
 you passed the trolley-car, looked up to see what that meant ? 
 
 A. I cannot say that I ever had the job of breaking in an 
 uneducated horse to the trolley system. As far as I can think 
 at the present moment I have never been in towns where the 
 trolley system was just established — that is, at the inception 
 and running of the first few months — so that my testimony on 
 that point would not be of very much value. All I know is 
 that tkher they are once put in operation for even a short time 
 horses get thoroughly accustomed to them. 
 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 
 Q. Do you find that people where it has been used, after it 
 has been up and tried, make any serious complaints on that 
 score? 
 
 A. No, sir; I suppose in Cleveland we have had one of 
 the most extreme cases, in some way, in this country. Cleve- 
 land was one of the pioneers in the introduction of the trolley 
 system, and they had the disadvantage which all experiments 
 have. They had very noisy cars, many bieak-downs, and a 
 great deal of of^position. For the last year I have had occa- 
 sion to sound public sentiment a good deal, and I find that 
 the people would not think for a moment of going back 
 either to horses or to change over to the cable system. They 
 have one cable line in Cleveland. All the others, with one 
 exception, fare electrical lines, electricity being in a verylaige 
 proportion. The electric line is parallel with the cable, and 
 
 Q. Is there any depreciation of property in Cleveland on 
 the trolley lines ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; property has been built up there in a marvel- 
 ous way. I mean the value of property all over. They have 
 
84 
 
 four tracks on one street — Superior Street — for about three 
 
 blocks. 
 
 Q. Is Euclid Avenue in Cleveland ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is claimed, I believe, to be the finest avenue in 
 the world ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Do you have it there ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. That is the avenue on which 3^ur wealthy people have 
 tneir handsome residences ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; but on one portion of the avenue there is no 
 car line at all. That is far out. Cars run under the avenue 
 about a mile, and from that time they run along through a 
 very fine residential district. 
 
 Q. Do they run single or double tracks ? 
 
 A. Double tracks, and that portion which parallels the 
 finer portion of Euclid Avenue — Prospect Street — ^they have 
 almost as fine residences as can be found in any part of the 
 city. 
 
 Q. You say there has been no depreciation, but an appre- 
 ciation, of property ? 
 
 A. I think the appreciation is all over the city without any 
 question. 
 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. You speak of the fact that you think property has 
 ratlier appreciated there. What is the width of that avenue ? 
 
 A. I cannot tell you in feet. The avenue is very broad. 
 I suppose it is perhaps eighty feet It must of necessity be 
 broad in order to have four tracks. Prospect Street, from 
 which the electric cars run, is probably thirty-five feet wide, 
 and upper Euclid Avenue is the same way. The streets 
 are all quite wide in Cleveland. 
 
 Q. What is the width of the sidewalks there ? 
 
 A. I do not know whether I can tell you that or not I 
 should say about eight feet wide— eight to nine feet wide. 
 
 Q. How far, as a rule, do the houses set back from the 
 streets ? 
 
 85 
 
 A. On Prospect Street they set on the curbstone about 
 double the width of the sidewalk — in some cases, more than 
 that — three times. 
 
 Q. How much width would that give, as a rule, between 
 house and house on opposite sides ? 
 
 A. I have paid very little attention to measurements and 
 my opinion would not be worth very much. 
 
 Q. Isn't it quite wide ? 
 
 A. It is quite wide on some of the streets; it is eighty feet 
 wide perhaps from house to house on some of the streets. 
 
 Q. On Euclid Avenue, what is the width ? 
 
 A. On that avenue where the cars run, I presume it is one 
 hundred feet from house to house. As I say, my opinion is 
 not of very great value on that subject. 
 
 Q. Are not the streets there, from your recollection, as a 
 rule much wider than our streets are ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; they are, as a rule, although I have not seen 
 the outlying portions of this city. I have seen the business 
 part of Philadelphia. 
 
 Q. They are much wider than our steeets, so far as you are 
 familiar with them ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. I mean leaving out Market Street and Broad Street, 
 but taking the others ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. As a rule, is it not true that your streets ar« wide 
 enough so that persons in driving along meeting these cais 
 can have room enough for their horses, if they are at all ex- 
 cited or alarmed, to be reined in and not to run away, rear, 
 or shy in close proximity to the car on to the sidewalk ? 
 
 A. Well, 1 should not want to educate a horse in any 
 double-track street. 
 
 Q. The narrower the place that you are driving in, the 
 ^eater danger you think would come from the attempt to 
 educate him, would you not ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; undoubtedly. 
 
 Q. You have spoken of the perfection of this system. I 
 understand you to say that if this system as used now was 
 
86 
 
 adopted under the known appliances you would consider the 
 danger reduced to a minimum ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. In other words, I believe that you can oper- 
 ate an electric road on a large scale with less accidents to 
 
 human life from every cause than with the cable system and — 
 well, I do not know that I can say with the horse system. I 
 presume that would not be true, but with the cable system,, 
 certainly. 
 
 Q. Are there not very many of the systems that have bee» 
 operated, however, that have been made imperfect by people 
 who have not had these guards against danger, of which you 
 have spoken ? 
 
 A. Yes sir. 
 
 Q, Hasn't that been very laigely the experience through- 
 out the country ? 
 
 A. Yes ; it has been in all roads built perhaps to within & 
 
 year or a year and a half ago. I say all. I mean some roads. 
 There have been some roads built without regard to expense, 
 where their operation has been as perfect as it could probably^ 
 be now, except for the slight advantages in mechanism, &c.^ 
 which alwa3rs come with time. 
 
 Q. But very many have been so imperfectly constructed 
 that they have been liable to these accidents ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir ; that is true. 
 
 Q. Is it not true that very many of these reports which 
 have been published in the newspapers from time to time — 
 while many of them have been inaccurate yet that many of 
 
 them have had more or less foundation for the statements, 
 made, owing to the imperfect systems which have been in. 
 operation ? 
 
 A. Well, now, I will say, speaking honestly, that I have not 
 seen during the last year or two in the newspapers, any state- 
 ments by uneducated newspaper reporters or anybody else 
 that men have been killed by the trolley system, with one or 
 two exceptions ; and those exceptions have been quickly 
 traced down and found incorrect. Misstatements have been 
 laigely put in rather an ambiguous way — ^that an electric wire 
 fell ; or that an electric light wire fell ; or a trolley wire felL 
 
 87 
 
 And it has been more a matter of knocking down a horse 
 than killing when a trolley wire has fallen. I can think of 
 no case within my remembrance where there has been any 
 clearly stated newspaper report of any one being killed or se- 
 riously injured by a trolley wire. 
 
 Q. Still you are aware of the fact that there has been a 
 prevalent atmosphere running through the newspapers which 
 would indicate that they believed the trolley system to be 
 objectionable on account of accidents being liable to happen 
 through it ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; that is the impression, certainly. 
 
 Q. That is based upon what you deem to be incorrect in- 
 formation, but still it has existed ? 
 
 A. Yes, §ir. I think that one of the difficult things for 
 the people to understand is the reason why a current should 
 be strong enough to propel one hundred loaded cars, and yet 
 not be strong enough to kill a man. I presume that has been 
 very carefully explained here in the course of this investiga- 
 tion. 
 
 Q. Yes, we have gone into that very thoroughly. Now, 
 would you not say, if you were going to construct a system of 
 tramsit by the use of a trolley overhead wire, that you would 
 deem it essential that you should perfect that system and 
 perfect the engineering provinces connected with it to as 
 great a degree as was possible, under present known circum- 
 stances that exist ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; certainly. 
 
 Q. And that every guard should be adopted ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; at the time of invention. Of course, if 
 Stephenson's engine had not been adopted at the time it was, 
 we would not have had Corliss' engine, but there should be 
 used the most modem appliances in every way. 
 
 Q. In other words, would you not consider that it was just 
 one of those agencies, which, if handled in the way of which 
 you have spoken, may be comparatively harmless, and if 
 handled carelessly, ignorantly, ^or negligently, may be dan- 
 gerous ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; certainly. 
 
88 
 
 By Mr. Shapley: 
 
 Q. Is it not to the immediate pecuniary advantage of a 
 company, which would undertake to put up a trolley system 
 now, to put up the very best that ingenuity has devised ? 
 
 A. Without question; I do not suppose that a company 
 cares to pay |;5000 for lives lost, in my opinion. 
 
 Mr. Bullitt:— Mr. Chairman: I have heretofore stated 
 that I would like to offer, if it arrived, some information from 
 Newark, and with the permission of the committee 1 would 
 like to read a letter, and possibly to supplement that by call- 
 ing the persons who have obtained this information. I now 
 read a letter dated March i6th, 1892, from Mr. Cortland 
 Parker, who I think is known by reputation to almost every- 
 body as being one of the most prominent men in the State of 
 New Jersey. This letter is addressed to myself. (Reading 
 same.) This letter comes from a visit paid yesterday to Newark 
 by Mr. Stokes and Mr. Wister, who went there for the purpose 
 of ascertaining how far the people of Newark would confirm 
 the statements made by the mayor of Newark before this com- 
 mittee. I would like, with the permission of the committee, 
 to call Mr. Stokes for the purpose of showing what informa- 
 tion he gained there with reference to this subject I would 
 state that these gentlemen were not able to give time enough 
 to obtain written statements. They only went over there 
 yesterday afternoon, arriving there at a late hour, and I told 
 them that they must be back here to-day by 12 o'clock. 
 
 Mr. Stokes, examined : — 
 By Mr. Bullitt : 
 
 Q. You live on Main Street, Germantown ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. You are opposed to this system of trolley overhead wire, 
 and have been very active in that opposition, have you not ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you and Mr. Wister go to Newark yesterday at 
 my suggestion for the purpose of getting information on this 
 subject ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 89 
 
 Q. State the result of your observation, and the informa- 
 tion you obtained with reference to the feeling of the people 
 over there upon the subject ? 
 
 A. Of course, it will be understood that we had quite a 
 short time in which to get any very large amount of infor- 
 mation, but at the same time we arrived there about seven 
 o'clock last evening, and I left at about half-past ten this 
 morning. Mr. Wister was there a couple of hours longer; 
 in that time we had an opportunity to see a good many peo- 
 ple, whom we knew or knew of, and others whom we spoke 
 to casually ; also to go along the streets and hear these cars 
 in Newark, and to form our own impressions individually 
 from what the people had to say about the subject. I am 
 myself pretty familiar with trolley cars. I have traveled in 
 a great many cities that have used them, and I have slept 
 under them, ridden on them, and driven by them, and know 
 them in most of the cities of the West, but we had heard this 
 account of Newark's especial case from their mayor, and I 
 was anxious to obtain information, being interested in the 
 subject 
 
 We saw Mr. Cortland Parker, who stated about what is 
 contained in the letter which you have just heard read. We 
 then called on Mr. McCarter, a prominent lawyer living on 
 Market Street, Newark, which is one of the broad streets 
 there on which they have no trolley cars. We asked his im- 
 pression, and he said this : that the people universally said 
 that it was good transportation — there was no denial of that 
 — but the people on Market Street were very apprehensive of 
 having it come along the street, and very much opposed to it 
 coming along their street. 
 
 We also called on Mr. F. C. Jackson, who lives on one of 
 the side streets. I am not familiar with their names, but I 
 can tell you about its width. He lives on a broad street on 
 which there is no trolley. He is an old gentleman, I think 
 veiy fair and unprejudiced. We told him what we wanted, 
 and that we were opposed to it. He said, "Well, I am 
 afraid I can't help you." We asked him on what ground, and 
 he said, they ran up to the side of his ^^house there and made 
 
90 
 
 it convenient to him to get home. I asked him about the 
 noise, and he said it was objectionable unquestionably. Then 
 I asked him how he would like to have it in front of hu» 
 house. He said that would be very objectionable, and he 
 would not like it at all I asked him also his impression as to 
 the effect upon the value of his prc^rty. He said that he 
 had reason to know that if he went to sell his property it 
 would not bring within fifteen, twenty, or twenty-five per 
 cent, of what it would bring previously to this, but he wanted 
 to live there and didn't want to move away. He was one of 
 the most favorable men that we found to the trolley system 
 in Newark. I give it to you just as he gave it to us. 
 
 We also saw a doctor who lived in a rather narrow street, 
 probably sixty or fifty feet from curb to curb. He was one 
 of Newark's prominent physicians. He said that he was 
 very much opposed to it at first. He was opposed to the dis- 
 agreeable parts of it at the present time, and as to his own 
 property, but he came back to the fact that it was good 
 transportation. He said that he had two lots by the side of 
 his house that he had been trying to sell for three or four 
 years. He had an offer three years ago of ^13500. He had 
 since offered them for sale at $2^00 or 112400, and could get 
 an offer of only |ti8oo. He said that unquestionably his 
 property had suffered up to the present time. What it 
 might be in the future he did not know. Those were the 
 only people that we went to with any degree of personal 
 knowledge, but we talked upon the street and found that the 
 sentiment was very much against the discomforts of it, 
 although they liked to get around quickly, like we all da 
 They all seemed to be pretty well satisfied to have it in the 
 town, but we did not find one single individual, with the 
 exception of this Mr. Jackson, who was at all reconciled to the 
 fact of having it go by his own property. They would like 
 to have it go by somebody else's property. We asked them 
 in a general way whether they were familiar with Philadel^ 
 I^ia streets, and they made no hesitation in saying at once 
 that they thought it would be a very bad thing for Phila- 
 delphia. As to our own personal impressions of the noise,, 
 
 91 
 
 the old cars are very noisy. It has been stated by one of the 
 experts that the new cars made nothing like so much noise. 
 The noise of humming is not eliminated probably on any 
 cars. You can hear the old cars certainly for a block and a 
 half or two blocks. My impression was in this part of Phila- 
 delphia, if it comes, you will have to take the noise with it. 
 I would rather take the motors that had the noise in them 
 or else have a whistle on those cars like a locomotive whistle. 
 Q. Why do you want that noise ? 
 
 A. I tMnk it would be an element of safety. I think 
 those cars ought to have some means of giving notice of their 
 
 approach to a crossing. 
 
 Q. Do they not give that by gongs ? 
 
 A. Yes, sir; to a certain extent, but they do not stand 
 much chance on those cars they approach so rapidly. The 
 complaint that we had was that when they first installed 
 those cars the drivers, of course, had it in their power to run 
 them at almost unlimited speed, and would do so, and the 
 police would have to stop it, and did to a certain extent. 
 But they had an advantage in Newark that we do not have 
 here — ^that the houses are set back from the fence quite a dis- 
 tance, leaving a yard so that if you go up a street you can 
 cross the yard and see the cars probably a quarter of a square 
 before you get to the crossing. Here, of course, the houses 
 run right to the corner, and we can all appreciate the differ- 
 ence. 
 
 Cross-examination, 
 By Mr. Johnson : 
 
 Q. How far did you travel from the centre of the town ? 
 
 A. We traveled out from the centre of the town, I suppose, 
 probably six or eight lots. I am speaking about the thickly 
 built-up portion of Newark. I am not speaking of the 
 
 suburbs. 
 
 Q. Then you kept your inquiries in the very thickly 
 built-up portions of the city ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
92 
 
 Q. And the result Wis that they thought it was a good 
 thing for them, but that it would be a bad thing for Phila- 
 delphia. Was that the result ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; I found that every man where it went past his 
 own door objected to it very much, but that, as a matter of 
 transportation, they did acknowledge that it was good trans- 
 portation and got to be quite well resigned, most of them, to 
 having it by somebody else's door instead of their own. 
 
 Q. How many people did you call on ? 
 
 A. Four or five, but, I suppose, we talked to twenty or 
 thirty. 
 
 Q. How did you diagnose the places where you called — 
 were you told to go there, or did you just guess that a cer- 
 tain place would be a good place ? 
 
 A. No; these two gentlemen, whose names we know, were 
 the only ones whose names I know that we talked to. 
 
 Q. Who gave you their names ? 
 
 . A. Mr. Bullitt gave us the names of two of these gentlemen. 
 
 Q. They were both lawyers ? 
 A. I believe so ; yes, sir. 
 
 Q. About how many miles of electric railways are there in 
 Newark? 
 
 A. I do not know ; I didn't go into that I was not there 
 long enough. 
 
 .Q. About how many miles did you travel in that pilgrim- 
 age that commenced at seven at night and ended at ten and 
 a half this morning ? 
 
 A. You misunderstand me. We did not keep it up all the 
 time. 
 
 Q. You did not paint the town quite that red ? 
 A. No, sir. 
 
 Q. About how many miles did you walk in your effort to 
 gather public sentiment ? 
 A. I suppose we walked probably three, four, or five miles. 
 Q. Up one side and down the other ? 
 
 A. No, sir; we did in some few cases. We tried not to do 
 that. We rode on the cars long distances, and then took up 
 certain objective points — ^veiy rapidly, too. 
 
 93 
 
 Q. What would be the principle of selection upon which 
 you would go in stopping a man, and how did you stop him 
 to gain information ? 
 
 A. 1 will give you one or two cases to illustrate that. As 
 I said, we walked quite a considerable distance and viewed 
 these cars more interestedly from the outside than from the 
 inside. That is one reason why we walked more than we 
 rode. After all that effort we were naturally a little hungry, 
 and went into an oyster saloon on Broad Street, where we 
 had some oysters. One man was serving these refreshments, 
 and I said to him, " I see that you have none of these electric 
 cars on your street." He said, " No." I said, " Well, I should 
 think you people would get up a petition to have them here; 
 your neighbors are enjoying more privileges and luxuries than 
 you are." Hcf said, " No, sir ; for heaven's sake ! We never 
 want them on this street." I said, " Why not ?** " Well," he 
 said, " they are noisy and getting out of order." He was not 
 an expert, but he said that it was disagreeable, their stopping 
 and getting out of order, and that he wouldn't like to live 
 along the line of such a route. 
 
 Q. Then I suppose after he told you that you ordered 
 oysters ? 
 
 A. That was done before. It was while the oysters were 
 being cooked. That is a sample of the places. I asked him 
 the question as if simply for information, and in a general 
 way, and in a perfectly fair way. We saw twenty or twenty- 
 five people, and seventy-five or eighty per cent, of them had 
 very little to say in favor of such a road ; in fact, none were 
 in favor of it, except that it got you along in good shape — 
 that it was good transportation — and every one said that the 
 disadvantages of that system were great, and that the annoy- 
 ance was great. 
 
 Q. You did not ask anybody, however, who had any long 
 distance to travel, any workingman, for instance, whether he 
 thought it was an advantage to be able to save time in get- 
 ting to his work, did you ? 
 
 A. Well, I suppose there would be but one answer to make 
 to that. It would not be necessary. I would like myself, if 
 I want a long distance, to have good transportation. 
 
94 
 
 Q. And you think that is good transportation ? 
 
 A. I think it is. I think that has never been denied. 
 Q. Did you ask them whether they knew their mayor — 
 any of these people ? 
 A. Yes, sir. 
 
 Q. Did you ask them whether he was a representative 
 man? 
 
 A. Well, I would rather you would not ask that question. 
 Q. Is that because you got a bad opinion of him from what 
 you gathered ? 
 
 A. No, sir ; it is because he came over here so kindly, for 
 our benefit, last Monday, that I think I would be very un- 
 grateful to state what we heard in Newark. 
 
 Q. I take it for granted that, as he had been re-elected four 
 times, you heard from the people who elected him a very bad 
 opinion of him as a representative man ? 
 
 A. I did not hear from the people who elected htm, I sup- 
 pose. I do not know whether they were such people or not. 
 He stated, I believe, that he had been in there for eight 
 years. That is a question that I do not care to answer. Of 
 course, people discuss methods and means, &c. 
 
 Q. You have been interested in opposing this system for 
 'Some time. Why did you not make a visit to Newark 
 earlier? 
 
 A. Because we had not had it presented to us in such a 
 glowing light as we had last Monday. I have seen it in many 
 other places where I had made visits, but 1 had never made a 
 imh to any city before expressly for that purpose. 
 
 The following Letters from Mayors, Heads of 
 
 Departments, Insurance Brokers, and others 
 in cities where the Trolley System is in 
 actual operation were read by the clerk. 
 
 Opinion of the Trolley System as expressed by 
 
 Mayor Matthews of Boston. 
 
 Extent of the System, — The trolley wire was introduced 
 some three years ago, and is being gradually extended, so 
 that in a short time it is expected to entirely supplant the 
 use of horse-cars. 
 
 Public Opinion, — While there are many persons who are 
 opposed to the trolley system as more dangerous than horse- 
 cars, I am inclined to think that the greater number are in 
 favor of the system, at least as compared with an3^hing that 
 preceded it. An attempt was made to run electric cars by 
 means of a conduit, but for some reason or other it proved a 
 failure ; and the general idea now seems to be that the trol- 
 ley system is the best that we have had for surface travel, and 
 the best that we can have until the adoption of a storage battery 
 system be found practioible. It has been found, I believe, 
 that the electric cars are sought by passengers in pr^rence 
 to the horse-cars where they have a choice, and the fact that 
 they can be propelled so much faster where the streets are 
 wide enough and sufficiently free from other travel seems to 
 be an unanswerable aigument in favor of the S3rstem, so far as 
 the residents of the outlying sections of the city are con- 
 cerned. In so far as their use in the narrow streets of the 
 business section of our city is concerned, there seems little to 
 choose between electric cars and horse-cars. A slow rate 
 of speed is necessary and while there is perhaps more danger 
 from the electric^cars, there is a compensating advantage, on 
 
 (95) 
 
96 
 
 the other hand, in that the streets can be kept much cleaner 
 than where horses are used. 
 
 On the whole, therefore, the best thought that I have 
 been able to give to the matter leads me to the conclusion 
 that the trolley wire S3rstem, while by no means an ideal one, 
 is on the whole superior to anything that we have had, and 
 is generally regarded by the people with favor. If we could 
 ever get our narrow and crooked streets in the centre of the 
 town straightened out and a number of tracks removed and 
 the classes of travel that use the streets separated, so as to 
 have the electric cars confined to certain streets and allow 
 teams to have the monopoly of others, I believe that the 
 system would be a material factor in solving the vexed prob- 
 lem of rapid transit in this city ; and in the meantime I think 
 that on the whole the change from horse to electric has been 
 a distinct advantage to the city. 
 
 Yours very respectfully, 
 
 N. Matthews, 
 
 Mayor. 
 
 Boston, March loth, 1892. 
 P, A. B. Widener, Esq,, Philada, : 
 
 My Dear Sir: — The sentiment in favor of the electric 
 system in this city and suburbs is well-nigh universal. The 
 'only complaint regarding it is that we do not introduce it 
 faster than we are doing, and we are putting on from thirty 
 to fifty electric cars every month in place of horse-cars. 
 
 I could send you scores of letters from improvement asso- 
 ciations in different sections, but they are all of the same 
 tenor ; and without consultation with the writer of the letter 
 herewith inclosed, I send this as a specimen of the letters we 
 are constantly receivii^, urging the introduction of the electric 
 system. 
 
 If your city government would appoint a committee to 
 come here, and ride on our cars and talk with the passen- 
 gers, I am sure they would have no doubt as to the popularity 
 of the system. 
 
 Yours truly, Henry M. Whitney, 
 
 President. 
 
 97 
 
 City of Albany, 
 
 Mayor's Office. 
 
 Albany, March 14th, 1892. 
 
 Mr, P. A, B, Widener, President Philadelphia Traction 
 Company : 
 
 Dear Sir : — In answer to your inquiry as to the experience 
 of Albany with the trolley system on street-car lines, permit 
 me to say that nothing could induce Albanians to return to 
 the antiquated system of horse-cars. There was some op- 
 position to the adoption of the system when it was first pro- 
 posed, but, since the spring of 1890, when the cars first began 
 to run, there has not been an accident due to the trolley 
 wires, the city has had rapid transit, and the value of property, 
 both in the suburbs and on the streets through which the 
 lines run, has steadily increased. 
 
 It is my opinion that the overhead trolley is the best system 
 for operating street-car lines, and in this opinion even those 
 Albanians who first opposed the system coincide with me. 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 James H. Manning. 
 
 Mayor's Office, 
 
 Buffalo, N. Y., March nth, 1892. 
 
 Philadelphia Traction Company ^ Philadelphia, Pa, : 
 
 I am directed by Mayor Bishop to acknowledge receipt of 
 your communication of the 9th inst., and in reply to say: 
 
 The people of Buffalo generally prefer the trolley system 
 for street-car motive power, and would not return to horse- 
 power ; they are very desirous of having it substituted on all 
 the lines of street railway here. 
 
 Property has not depreciated on the streets through which 
 trolley cars run, so far as I can learn. 
 
 The fire department has not as yet been disturbed or de- 
 layed by reason of the wires. 
 
98 
 
 I do not recollect any deaths that were directly occasioned 
 by the railway wires. The only fatal accidents, I believe, 
 
 have been occasioned by the cars themselves, and the number 
 is not very large. 
 
 Respectfully, 
 
 Jno. W. Fisher, 
 
 Secretary to the Mayor. 
 
 Pittsburgh, March iith, 1892. 
 
 Messrs. Widener and Elkins^ Philadelphia^ Pa, : 
 
 Gentlemen : — I can say that the overhead electric system 
 with trolley attachments for electric street railways has given 
 satisfaction in the city of Pittsburgh. There has been no 
 
 complaint made of any kind by the citizens along the route 
 of the several companies operating in this city; neither has 
 there been a single accident of any kind caused by the over- 
 head system. It has been operated successfully during the 
 past two years. 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 Edward M. Bigelow, 
 Chiefs Department of Public Works. 
 
 Pittsburgh, Pa., March 11 th, 1892. 
 
 Messrs, Elkins and Widener^ Philadelphia, Pa. : 
 
 Gentlemen: — Under an ordinance regulating electric 
 street railways, all overhead and electric street railways are in 
 the department of public safety and are controlled and regu- 
 lated b)' the burean of electricity, and our experience with 
 the trolley system in use by the various electric railways of 
 the city of Pittsburgh, they are safe and are not a menace or 
 dangerous to life and property, and have, so far, proved to be 
 of little inconvenience to the fire department. Those electric 
 wires which are the chief hinderance and trouble with refer- 
 ence to the fire service comes from the electric light and 
 telegraph, as well as telephone system. The trolley wires of 
 
 99 
 
 the various street railways, being in the middle of the street, 
 have not, so far, seriously interfered with the fire department 
 of the city of Pittsburgh, and we have never had a fire or 
 accident in the city of Pittsburjg^ caused by the wires of the 
 various electric street railways, and as chief of the depart- 
 ment of public safety I cheerfully testify that they are not 
 detrimental to the city of Pittsburgh. 
 
 Very truly yours, 
 
 J. O. Brown, 
 
 Chief, Department of Public Safety, 
 Per J. 
 
 Cleveland, March nth, 1892. 
 P. A, B, Widener, Esq., President Philadelphia Traction Com^ 
 pmy^ Philadelphia, Pa. : 
 
 Dear Sir:— As regards the overhead wire system of elec- 
 tric cars now in use in this city, I would say that the electric 
 cars are now giving entire satisfaction, aad I do not believe 
 that the citizens here would consent, under any circumstances, 
 to return to the old horse system. It has undoubtedly in- 
 creased the value of property in the suburbs, and we do not 
 find it any more dangerous than the cable, and, on the whole, 
 it gives better service and much quicker transit. 
 
 Yours respectfully, 
 
 David Morison, 
 Director of Charities and Correction. 
 
 Boston, March loth, 1892. 
 P. A. B. Widener, Esq., President Philadelphia Traction Com- 
 
 pony, 423 Walnut Street, Philadelphia, Pa : 
 
 My Dear Sir The sentiment in favor of the electric 
 system in this city and suburbs is well-nigh universal. The 
 only complaint regarding it is that we da not introduce it 
 faster than we are doing, and we are putting on from thirty 
 to fifty electric cars eveiy month in place of horse^ars. 
 
lOO 
 
 f I could send you scores of letters from improvement asso- 
 ciations in different sections, but they are all of the same 
 tenor ; and without consultation with the writer of the letter 
 herewith inclosed, I send this as a specimen of the letters we 
 are constantly receiving, uiging the introduction of the elec- 
 tric system. 
 
 If 5^our city government would appoint a committee to 
 come here and ride on our cars and talk with the passengers, 
 Fam sure they would have no doubt as to the popularity of 
 the system. 
 
 Yours truly, 
 
 Henry M. Whitney, 
 
 President. 
 
 Boston, March 6th, 1892. 
 
 Frank H, Monks, General Manager, W, E. R. R., 81 Milk 
 Street, Boston, Mass. : 
 
 Dear Sir:— I am chairman of the committee on travel 
 and transportation of the East Boston Citizens' Trade Asso- 
 ciation, and on behalf of that committee I ask if you can 
 inform us whether or not it is the intention of the West End 
 Company to introduce electricity upon the East Boston Divis- 
 ion road, and, if so, how soon our citizens can expect that 
 improvement. The present inconvenience to which we are 
 subjected from overcrowded and poor cars has been so often 
 presented to you that it is not necessary for me to refer to it 
 further than to say that we are patiently waiting, expecting 
 that with the introduction of electricity we shall receive better 
 accommodations through the use of larger cars and more of 
 them. 
 
 The reason that I ask for this information at this time is 
 because I am making up the final report of the committee 
 for the season, and it would be a gratification if that report 
 
 can include a statement of an assurance from you that this 
 much-desired improvement may be expected in the near 
 future. If you can add any other information it will be 
 gratefully received. 
 
 lOI 
 
 Allow me to state also on behalf of the committee that 
 they think that the traveling public of East Boston fully ap- 
 preciate the improvement in the service on the city side on 
 the East Boston lines through the recent introduction of elec- 
 tricity as a motor there. 
 
 Yours respectfully, 
 
 John L. Bates, 
 
 Cleveland, March nth, 1892. 
 
 A. B, Widener, Esq , President Philadelphia Traction CoftP- 
 pany, Philadelphia, Pa. : 
 
 Dear Sir : — Being a frequent patron in this city on both 
 the cable and electric street railways, as well as the old-time 
 horse-cars, I beg to say that I am fully convinced that the 
 electric system is the best one to be used in the place of the 
 old-fashioned horse-cars, and I know of no city that the same 
 could be adopted to so good an advantage as the city of Phil- 
 adelphia. I would be very loth to see any change made in 
 this city, where I am satisfied that the use of the electric cars 
 has enhanced the value of property very largely. 
 
 Yours respectfully, 
 
 J. K. Bole, 
 
 Chairman Finance Committee^ Cleveland City Council, 
 
 Office of Comptroller. 
 
 Allegheny, Pa., March 12th, 1892. 
 
 Messrs. Widener and Elkins^ Philadelphia^ Penna. : 
 
 Gentlemen : — In reply to your request I would say that 
 the overhead electric system of street railways have been in 
 use in this city for several years, and I believe have given 
 satisfaction to our people. It is true that we have had a few 
 accidents, but these have been caused mainly through the 
 carelessness of the parties injured. We have a number of 
 
I02 
 
 electric lines in our city, and I am of the opinion that the 
 .0va*head system is perfectly safe and reliable. 
 
 Very respectfully, 
 
 James Brown, 
 
 ComptraUer. 
 
 Allegheny National Bank. 
 
 Pittsburgh, Pa., March nth, 1892. 
 
 Elkins and Wtdener, Philadelphia, Pa, : 
 
 Gentlemen : — In answer to your request asking my opin- 
 ion of the overhead wire system of electric street railways, 
 would say that when the right was first granted in this city I 
 was fearful that it was a great mistake, and dangerous and 
 annoying to the people living and doing business on the 
 streets to be used. But 1 am free to say that after a trial in 
 our city for the last two yeafs I think it a great improvement 
 and help to business, and that it has enhanced the value of 
 suburban real estate greatly. 
 
 Respectfully yours, 
 
 Jno. Caldwell, Jr. 
 City of Cincinnatl 
 
 Mayor's Officb. 
 
 March nth, 1892. 
 
 Philadelphia Traction Company, Philadelphia, Pa, : 
 
 Gentlemen -Your letter of the 19th inst, asking my 
 opinion in regard to the electric trolley system, is at hand. I 
 leave to answer : — 
 
 First. — ^Would the people revoke the trolley franchise to 
 revert to horse-power if they could ? No. 
 
 Second, — Has property depreciated in value adjacent to 
 overhead wire railways ? No. 
 
 Third. — Does the fire department encounter insurmounta- 
 ble obstacles in their work? It is true they are an obstruc- 
 tion to firemen, but not insurmountable ; but this is one of 
 
 103 
 
 the great objections to overhead wires of any kind. There 
 has been no deaths attributed to overhead railroad wires, 
 except that of a horse caused by a break in the wires. 
 
 Respectfully submitted, 
 
 John B. Mosby, 
 
 Mayor, 
 
 City of Cleveland, Ohio. 
 
 Office of the City Clerk. 
 
 March nth, 1892. 
 
 P, A, B, Widener, Esq,, President PMladelphia Traction 
 
 Company : 
 
 Dear Sir : — In response to your communication I would 
 say that seven years experience in municipal government has 
 convinced me that the use of the trolley system for the opera- 
 tion of street*cars has not had the effect of depreciating prop^ 
 crty, but on the contrary has proven a very substantial benefit 
 to the same. It certainly has not been as dangerous a system 
 to life as the cable, and but little, if any, more dangerous than 
 horse-cars. As far as this city is concerned the introduction 
 of rapid transit by the trolley system has been a great boon 
 to thousands of our people whose homes are distant from the 
 business portion of the city, and they would certainly not, 
 under any circumstances, return to any slower means of 
 transit, even if less dangerous. 
 
 Of our one hundred and seventy-five miles of street railway 
 lines one hundred and fifty miles are operated by the trolley 
 system, with the exception of one line which is about to be 
 equipped with it. 
 
 One of the objections raised to overhead wire street-cars 
 has been the noise with which they were operated, but this 
 objection is being rapidly done away with by the use of mod^ 
 em improved electrical improvements here. 
 
 I have the honor to remain 
 
 Very truly yours, 
 
 Howard H. Burgess, 
 
 City CUrk. 
 
I04 
 
 American Casualty Insurance and Security Co. 
 
 OF Baltimore City. 
 
 Cleveland, O., March nth, 1892. 
 
 P, A, B, Widener, Esq., President Philadelphia Traction Com' 
 pany, Philadelphia, Pa. : 
 
 Dear Sir : — Your general letter of recent date asking for 
 some data as to the effect of the introduction of electrical ap- 
 paratus on the street-car lines of this city, and as to what ef- 
 fect it has had on the rates in writing fire insurance, has been 
 handed to us for attention. 
 
 We are particularly interested in this question, namely, as to 
 what increase in fire insurance premiums electric railways have 
 brought about. We wish to say emphatically that there has 
 been no increase whatever in insurance rates here for the 
 reason above named. The experience of two or three years 
 which our insurance companies have had here convinces us 
 that no argument can be made that will show that electric 
 street railways increase the general fire hazards of a city in 
 any way. We might also advise you that we are heavy in- 
 surers of both electric and cable systems in Ohio, West Vir- 
 ginia, and Western Pennsylvania, and with our experience in 
 this particular line we reiterate what we have above written. 
 This objection raised by your people against the introduction 
 of the electric railway system must surely be based upon 
 prejudice or on some unknown reason, as certainly no evi- 
 dence to support it can be obtained from fire underwriters to 
 that effect. This city has about one hundred and fifteen 
 miles of electric street railway in successful operation. 
 
 Hoping that we have been able to throw some light, we re- 
 main. 
 
 Yours very truly, 
 
 Bingham, Douglass & Squire, 
 
 General Agents, 
 
 Dictated, C. B. S. 
 
 105 
 
 House of Representatives, United States, 
 
 Washington, D. C, March 13th, 1892. 
 
 Messrs. Widener and Elkins, No. 42 j Walnut Street, Phila^ 
 delphia. Pa, : 
 
 Gentlemen : — In answer to your inquiry as to the relative 
 advantage of the trolley system over other means of street- 
 car propulsion, permit me to say that I have given the sub- 
 ject careful consideration for the last five years, and my 
 opinion is that beyond any question of doubt the overhead 
 trolley system is to-day the most practical plan of rapid transit 
 for any city. In Cleveland and St. Louis, where I am inter- 
 ested in street railroads, there are no objections to overhead 
 wires and the operation of cars under that system is the most 
 popular. Where the poles and wires are put up properly they 
 can be made ornamental. 
 
 The objections urged in the beginning that they were dan- 
 gerous, interfered with the fire department, and were gene- 
 rally unsightly, has entirely disappeared, and the bitterest 
 enemies of the overhead system have become its best friends. 
 
 I have investigated very carefully the storage battery, and 
 without attempting to say what may be developed hereafter, 
 I am positive that they are not a commercial success, the cost 
 of operation being in every case greater than the receipts, 
 and the service very poor, both in speed and reliability. 
 
 The only practically successful electric roads to-day are 
 those operated by overhead wires. 
 
 It is entirely practicable to put the feed wires under ground in 
 the centres of latge cities, and this should be required, as the 
 feed wires are the only unsightly features of the electric system. 
 
 Yours very truly, 
 
 Frank L. Johnson. 
 
 Cleveland, O., March iith, 1892. 
 
 P. A. B. Widener, President Philadelphia Traction Company^ 
 
 Philadelphia, Pa. : 
 
 Dear Sir : — In reply to your inquiry, " What is the effect 
 of the electric railway upon the value of suburban property?" 
 
io6 
 
 I have to say that in Cleveland it has been in every way to 
 the credit of the electric railway. Since the first car was put 
 on the East Cleveland line of this city a complete change 
 has taken place in the real estate market, and property four, 
 five, and even eight miles from the public square has greatly 
 increased in' value. I think that the statement that this in- 
 crease amounts to thirty-three per cent, is a conservative one. 
 
 Yours truly, 
 
 J. G. W. COWLES, 
 
 R. M. Parmely. 
 
 ARGUMENT OF RUFUS E. SHAPLEY, ESQ 
 
 Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen of the Committee : 
 
 Either I entirely misunderstood the purpose for which 
 you were brought together, and the issue before you, or Mr. 
 Bullitt deliberately ran away from that issue. I had sup- 
 posed, and I think I had aright to suppose, from the multi- 
 tudinous literature on the subject which I have read in the 
 newspapers, that you were sitting here for the purpose of 
 hearing the testimony of experts and the arguments of coun- 
 sel to determine whether this trolley S3^tem is or is not as 
 objectionable as it is represented to be ; whether it is a sys- 
 tem that can be safely introduced into Philadelphia, or one 
 which should be excluded from it. That was about the only 
 question in the most remote degree connected with the sub- 
 ject of street-cars to which Mr. Bullitt made no allusion. I 
 shall certainly not attempt to follow him through his review 
 of the ancient history of this city in relation to street rail- 
 roads, for I conceive that it has no earthly bearing on this 
 question. Nor shall I follow him into a consideration of 
 whether these ordinances ought or ought not to contain more 
 restrictions than they do contain. He spoke for an hour an 
 thirty minutes, durii^ at least an hour and twenty minutes of 
 which he devoted his attention entirely to those two subjects, 
 and the only time when he even approached what I under- 
 stand to be the question here was when, in a dramatic man- 
 ner, he spread out before you the protests of (as he alleged) 
 seven thousand two hundred and sixty-three people (which 
 he had kept carefully hidden away in his carpet-bag, so that 
 no one could examine them), representing (as he claims) 
 thirty-six thousand people, assuming that each person who 
 signed was not a servant girl, but a householder and at the 
 head qf a family. I conf^ that I was astounded. I had 
 
 (107) 
 
io8 
 
 supposed from the wholesale misrepresentation on this sub- 
 ject that he would present to you protests signed by from one 
 to two hundred thousand people, because I knew perfectly 
 well that with the misrepresentation and exa^eration of 
 this subject with which they were diligently filling the minds 
 of the people of this city, there would not be the slighest 
 difficulty in getting any person, wholly ignorant of the sub- 
 ject, to accept as verity what such respectable people told 
 them. 
 
 But as there are about four hundred blocks of squares which 
 are covered by these ordinances, and as I think we may safely 
 assume that there are twenty houses on each side of a block on 
 the average on those streets, allowing twenty feet front, there 
 must be some sixteen thousand houses that are directly in- 
 terested in this matter by reason of their being on the streets 
 on which it is proposed to put this system ; and if Mr. 
 Bullitt's theory is correct, there must be at least eighty thou- 
 sand people living directly on these streets. If so, he has 
 succeeded, by this system of misrepresentation to which I 
 shall refer hereafter, in procuring the signatures of less than 
 one-half of the people whom they have been endeavoring to 
 persuade that their property will be vastly depreciated by the 
 introduction of the trolley system. 
 
 I do not want to dwell on this subject, but of course you 
 all understand very thoroughly that these streets do not, as a 
 rule, comprise the streets occupied by the people of wealth, 
 leisure, and the highest amount of education. I presume the 
 majority of them are streets on which plain, every-day, matter- 
 of-fact, business people and working people live. You can 
 easily understand how easy a thing, therefore, it is to go to 
 people of that character — who probably have never seen a 
 trolley system in operation and who know absolutely nothing 
 about it — and by telling them as they did, and have done 
 from the first, that this system is intensely hazardous to life 
 and limb, to property and horse, and that the experience of 
 every city into which it has been introduced has been that 
 the property all along the lines has depreciated from twenty 
 to thirty per cent, in value — to get their signatures. 
 
 109 
 
 So that, conceding everything to the protestants, anc ad- 
 mitting that Mr. Bullitt is correct in his assumption that the 
 seven thousand two hundred and sixty-three represent thirty- 
 six thousand people, or nearly thirty thousand people more 
 than have signed tt, we have still less than one-half of the 
 actual property-owners and residents on those streets protest* 
 ing. But, of course, you understand that the people who are 
 directly and immediately interested in this system are not 
 limited to those who simply live along the line of these 
 streets. It is perfectly safe to assume that if this system 
 should be introduced, and if it should result in rapid transit, 
 or at least in more rapid transit than we now enjoy in Phila- 
 delphia, every person within two, three, or four blocks of each 
 street on which it runs in each direction will be directly in- 
 terested in it, so that in the immediate neighborhood of these 
 streets we can very safely assume, counting only two squares 
 in each direction, that there are at least four times as many 
 houses as there are on the streets themselves. On the basis 
 of five people to a house there would then be over three hun- 
 dred thousand people within two blocks of this system, and 
 therefore the direct and immediate sharers in any benefit re- 
 sulting from it. You will also remember that the population 
 of this city is a million and fifty thousand people in round 
 numbers, and that, if Mr. Bullitt is correct, these seven thou- 
 sand two hundred and sixty-three signers (not servant girls) 
 represent, at the outside, not more than thirty-six thousand 
 out of a million and fifty thousand people, leaving a million 
 and fourteen thousand people whom you are supposed to 
 represent. 
 
 Instead of attempting to follow Mr. Bullitt in his dis- 
 course on the ancient history of street-car companies and the 
 franchises granted to them, I propose to consume a very short 
 portion of your time by discussing what I believe to be, and 
 what I think every member of the committee understands to 
 be, the only question which you came here to consider ; that 
 is, the wisdom or unwisdom of permitting the introduction of 
 this trolley system into Philadelphia. 
 
XIO 
 
 The protests against this measure come from four different 
 classes of people : — 
 
 1. Those who are pecuniarily interested in elevated road or 
 storage-battery schemes, or rival street railway combines, and 
 who have, therefore, a direct pecuniary interest in trying to 
 defeat these ordinances. 
 
 2. Those who habitually oppose progress or improvement 
 of any kind. 
 
 3. Those who habitually sign any petition or protest they 
 may be asked to sign, and 
 
 4. A very lai^e number of highly respectable and estima- 
 ble people, who, having no actual knowledge of the trolley 
 system, have been led to believe, by the exaggerations and 
 misrepresentations of interested parties who are managing 
 this opposition, that the trolley system is in some way highly 
 dangerous and objectionable. 
 
 Now, everybody admits two things : First, our great need 
 of rapid transit, and, secondly, that it is much more desirable 
 to have electric wires underground, whenever they can be put 
 there. 
 
 But, knowing from experience the inestimable advantages 
 of the telegraph and electric light, none of us would consent 
 to do without them on account of the overhead wires— if it 
 were impossible to put and operate the wires underground. 
 
 No system of transit, rapid or slow, has ever been or ever 
 can be devised, to which there are not some unavoidable ob- 
 jections. 
 
 The test by which you must decide whether these ordi- 
 nances should be approved or rejected is this : Will the ad- 
 vantages from the use of this system be greater than the in- 
 adental disadvantages ? If we were to reject every public 
 improvement because of some incidental disadvant^es, 
 Philadelphia would stand still or actually go backwards, 
 while other rival cities would soon out-distance it. 
 
 And right here let me remind you that the history of this 
 city shows that every measure looking to its advancement 
 during the past hundred years has met with similar unreas<m- 
 ing opposition. 
 
 Ill 
 
 Always Enemies of Progress. 
 
 As long ago as 1789 we find that fourteen hundred full- 
 grown men in this city actually protested most solemnly 
 against the passage of an act to incorporate it, alleging that 
 they would thereby be "subjected to an aristocratic police," 
 and that the experience of their forefathers in England had 
 shown the mischievous effects of incorporating." 
 
 Ten years later, in 1799, we find the same class of people 
 protesting against the erection of the first water-works, on the 
 ground that their old-fashioned wells and pumps were quite 
 sufficient. 
 
 A few years later, in 1812, we find them protesting against 
 the introduction of coal as fuel. In 1828 we find them send- 
 ing a memorial to Congress seriously asking it to prohibit 
 sales of goods by auction, on the ground that auctions tended 
 to promote thievery, to ruin the importing trade, to injure 
 commerce, to debase public morals, and to increase the price 
 of merchandise. 
 
 In 1833 we find them solemnly protesting against lighting 
 the city with gas, alleging that it was " an article as ignitable 
 as gunpowder and as fatal in its effects;" that " it would, by 
 explosions and confiscations, cause an immense destruction 
 of property and an appalling loss of life ; " and that " it would 
 destroy the immense shoals of shad, herring, and other fish 
 with which the Delaware and Schuylkill Rivers abound." 
 And this celebrated and solemn protest is signed by the fore- 
 fathers of many of the signers who now protest against run- 
 ning cars by electricity on substantially the same grounds that 
 were then urged against the use of gas. And among the 
 signers we find the names of such eminent lawyers of that day 
 as Horace Binney, John Sargeant, Benjamin Chew, William 
 J. Duane, Joseph P. Norris, and William Hirst, and of such 
 citizens as Dr. Physick, Hartman Kuhn, James C. Fisher, 
 John C. Cresson, Matthew Newkirk, Paul Beck, and hun- 
 dreds of equal intelligence and prominence. 
 
 Later on, in 1858, when it was proposed to introduce street- 
 cars on Fifth and Sixth Streets, on Arch Street, and on Chest- 
 
112 
 
 nut and Walnut Streets, we find the same class of Philadel- 
 
 phians protesting against this desecration of our streets, the 
 largest property-owners and storekeepers on Chestnut Street 
 actually threatening to move away from those streets, and 
 even from the city itself, if their protests were not heeded. 
 So revolutionary were the pamphlets with which they flooded 
 the Capitol at Harrisbui^ that the legislature of 1858 was in- 
 timidated, and the bill to allow street-cars on Chestnut and 
 Walnut Streets was not passed until a new and braver legis- 
 lature met in 1859. 
 
 Again, in 1867, when it was proposed to run street-cars on 
 Sunday, so that church^oing people could ride to their often 
 far-off churches, and that tired-out workingmen with their 
 wives and children could get out of the over-heated city into 
 the country to get a little pure air once a week, we find the 
 proposition meeting with similar opposition, and the same 
 class of people beating at the doors of the Supreme Court, 
 and clamorously demanding that it should restrain such dese- 
 cration of our streets by injunction. 
 
 As late as 1887, the very leaders of the present opposition, 
 who now say " give us cable-cars," held town meetings and 
 nearly scared Governor Beaver into fits by the violence of 
 their protests against an act authorizing the incorporation of 
 traction-motor or cable companies. 
 
 Philadelphia Going Backward. 
 
 So it has been with every measure tending to lift Philadel- 
 phia up from the condition of a provincial vills^e to the 
 dignity of a great city. And the result has been that instead 
 of its now being what it was during the Revolution — ^the 
 
 commercial metropolis of this country — we hold but third 
 place, and are likely soon to lose even that rank. It is not 
 much wonder that the business men of New York and 
 Chicago — yes, and of Pittsburgh and a score of Western cities 
 that have sprung up as if by magic — regard this as little more 
 than an over-grown, antiquated, provincial town. And it is 
 not much consolation to know that we owe this condition of 
 
 affairs mainly to the obstinate and unreasoning opposition of a 
 certain class of our own people to anything in the way of 
 progress or improvement. 
 
 If the trolley wire were really as dangerous as some people 
 say it is, we would at least have before us the cheering pros- 
 pect of the speedy extermination by involuntary electrocution 
 of some of these chronic recalcitrants who have so long been 
 the curse of this city. 
 
 And I am personally acquainted with many devout Chris- 
 tian people who would look upon such an event as nothii^ 
 less than a special interposition of Divine Providence. 
 
 Now, Philadelphia needs rapid transit so badly that you 
 recently gave permission to build the most objectionable of 
 all structures, an elevated road, all along Market Street, your 
 most important thoroughfare. But at that time the leaders 
 of the present opposition were silent. They never oppose 
 any scheme which they or their friends are in — never. 
 
 Capitalists are Shy Birds. 
 
 But of course the elevated road has not been built, and 
 will not be built in our generation. Capitalists are shy birds. 
 They never throw their money away — ^knowingly and deliber- 
 ately. 
 
 Of our population of one million and fifty thousand nearly nine 
 hundred thousand live more than a mile, about five hundred 
 and fifty thousand more than two miles, and over three hun- 
 dred thousand more than three miles from the great banking 
 and business centres, so that rapid transit of some kind is be- 
 coming an absolute necessity. 
 
 Philadelphia differs from New York in this respect, that, 
 while that city is built on a narrow strip of territory of great 
 length, so that three elevated railroads and the cable road on 
 Broadway accommodate the great bulk of its population, the 
 area of the city, which is already thickly built up and popu- 
 lated, is four miles from east to west and six miles from north 
 to south. The distance from the southeastern point of this 
 built-up portion to the northwestern is fully eight miles, and 
 
114 
 
 from the southwestern to the northeastern between eight and 
 
 ten miles. So that even if it were possible to get capitalists 
 to build the two elevated roads which have been projected 
 they would afford relief to only comparatively few people 
 who live along their immediate lines, while the great body of 
 the people would not in any way be benefited, and can never 
 hope to have a sufficient number of elevated roads to do them 
 much good. 
 
 If you will look over the map which the opposition has 
 prepared for the purpose of scaring people into signing these 
 protests you will see that the traction S3^tem extends into 
 every section of the city, and that, if it could run its cars from 
 one end of the city to the other in half the time it takes to do 
 so, you would immediately have a thoroughly practical sys- 
 tem of rapid transit which would accommodate every section 
 and be brought to the very doors of hundreds of thousands of 
 people who can get rapid transit in no other possible way. 
 This very network of roads, which some people regard as such 
 a frightful bugaboo, is just what makes this scheme of rapid 
 transit so thoroughly practicable. 
 
 This company proposes to spend from m^cxx),ooo to 
 |^5,ooo,ooc in doing this, not as a matter of economy, but be- 
 cause, if a trip can be made in fifteen minutes which now takes 
 thirty minutes, the increase in the number of passengers car- 
 ried will yield a fair profit on this additional outlay. 
 
 Will Run One-Half Faster. 
 
 Of course, nobody expects the . cars to run much more 
 rapidly than horse-cars do in crowded parts of the city — ^and 
 this as a matter of safety to the people on the streets. But 
 this is true to only comparatively few blocks. Elsewhere the 
 speed can be increased with safety, so that, if the experience 
 of other cities is worth anything, the time on all loi^ routes 
 can be shortened nearly or quite one-half. It is the people 
 who have to take long rides who most need rapid transit, and 
 who will be the greatest gainers. Even ten minutes saved 
 twice a day means about thirteen whole working days in a 
 
 115 
 
 year, which, at the avers^e rate of wages earned by working- 
 men, would result in a saving of time equal in value to what 
 they pay for car fare in a year; or, in other words, would be 
 equivalent in value to free transportation twice a day for 
 every working day in the year. 
 
 So that jf must be perfectly clear that hundreds of 
 thousands of people who now most need rapid transit will be 
 enormously benefited by the passage of these ordinances, and 
 that the increase in the value of real estate on the outskirte 
 and in the suburbs will be simply enornious. Mr. Westing- 
 house told you that the assessment of all property in Pittsburgh 
 along these lines has been increased fourfold. 
 
 Now, what are the objections ? They say that the poles 
 are unsightly ; that the system is most dangerous to life and 
 limb and property, and that it will cause a great depreciation 
 in the value pf property on every street on which it is used. 
 They go further and say that wherever it has been used ex- 
 perience has convinced people generally of its exceedingly 
 dangerous and objectionable character, forgetting the very 
 obvious fact that if such were the case the people who had 
 had such an experience would be rapidly doing away with it, 
 instead of putting it on innumerable new routes as rapidly as 
 the cars can be built 
 
 If the half of these objections were true we certainly ought 
 to hesitate a long time before granting these privileges. But, 
 unfortunately for those who have recklessly or ignorantly 
 made these statements, the most important of them are not 
 true. They have absolutely failed to show a single well- 
 authenticated case in which a human being was ever killed or 
 seriously injured by the current of the trolley wire, or where 
 a single fire was caused by it. The evidence to the contrar>' 
 is simply overwhelming. So far from its causing an increase 
 in insurance rates or a depreciation in the value of property, 
 you have the testimony of underwriters, real estate men, 
 property-owners, and the mayors of a number of cities— 
 none of whom have the slightest pecuniary interest in this 
 matter or in the trolley system—who all tell you that they 
 have never heard of a case in which there was the slightest 
 
ii6 
 
 increase in insurance rates or the slightest depreciation in 
 value of a single property, or any complaint whatever from 
 
 the people after they had seen the system in actual operation, 
 and that with the new and improved motors the noise is not 
 any greater, if as great, as that of horse-cars. 
 
 No Longer an Experiment. * 
 
 . Remember that the system is not an experiment ; that it is 
 now in actual and successful operation in nearly two hundred 
 and fifty cities and large towns in the United States, among 
 which ar6 the large cities of Boston, Brooklyn, Newark, 
 Rochester, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, St 
 Louis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, St. Paul; that it has been 
 thoroughly tested for several years in Boston, in crooked 
 streets quite as narrow and crowded as any street in this city 
 on which it is proposed to use it, and that in that city alone it 
 is used on two hundred and sixty-one miles of tracks, while 
 here it is proposed to use it on but forty miles, and that over 
 three hundred street railway companies have adopted it at a 
 cost of ^155,000,000, on four thousand and sixty-two miles 
 of tracks, with seven thousand one hundred and eighty-one 
 electric cars. They may not like the sj'stem, but it is not 
 treating people fairly for our opponents to speak of it now as 
 an experiment. Candid and intelligent men do not usually 
 discuss a subject of such grave importance in this manner. It 
 indicates a deliberate purpose to misrepresent and deceive. 
 
 The Ledger of yesterday, which has heretofore opposed 
 these ordinances, now frankly admits that the danger to life 
 and limb is not worth talking about. It says : " The truth is 
 that under certain conditions, not often realized, such a cur- 
 rent may be dangerous to human life, but that in practice the 
 danger to the lives of the people is so remote that it may be 
 disregarded." In view of this frank admission, look at the 
 position in which thousands of ordinarily truthful people are 
 placed who signed these protests, ignorantly, of course, but 
 solemnly asserting that wherever this system has been tried 
 experience has shown it to be highly dangerous to human 
 life? 
 
 117 
 
 Of course, the respectful and truthful people who signed a 
 protest containing such a statement did not know how exten- 
 sively this system is used, or did not inquire as to what has 
 been tlie actual experience of people in other large cities. 
 
 The Ledger^ however, dwells on the danger from fire in the 
 event of an electric light or telegraph wire breaking and fall- 
 ing upon the trolley wire. The editor, doubtless, overlooked 
 the fact that no well-authenticated case like this has ever 
 happened on the thousands of miles of tracks on which it is 
 used in nearly two hundred and fifty cities and towns. 
 
 Insurance Companies not Scared. 
 
 He also overlooked the fact that experts called by the op- 
 position admitted that the use of the protecting wire above 
 the trolley wire to prevent the electric and telegraph wires 
 from coming in contact with it, in case of their breaking and 
 falling, would make the danger of such accidents very slight. 
 He also overlooked the fact that the insurance companies 
 have never regarded the danger as of sufficient account to 
 justify them increasing the rates of insurance a single penny 
 on a single property along the thousands of miles of trolley 
 wire now in operation. He also overlooked the fact that on 
 very few streets where it is proposed to put the trolley wires 
 are there any electric light or telegraph wires which could 
 break and fall, and that, when they are all put under ground, 
 as they will be, accidents of this kind will be wholly impossi- 
 ble. You see even editors sometimes overlook important 
 facts like these when discussing grave subjects. 
 
 Does any one suppose that the people of Boston, Brooklyn, 
 Newark, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland, St 
 Louis, Minneapolis, St Paul, Milwaukee, and other cities 
 have any less regard for the safety of their property, of their 
 own lives, and of the lives of their wives and children and 
 horses than you have of yours ? Does any one suppose that 
 they did not consider these alleged objections and satisfy 
 themselves fully of their baselessness before they permitted 
 the use of this system on their streets ? 
 
ii8 
 
 Does any one suppose that over $i 55,cxx),ooo of capital 
 would have been invested by street railway companies in con- 
 structing this system if its safety and efficiency had not«been 
 thoroughly tested, and if diey had not been thoroughly sati^ 
 fied that it was the only practical system in existence ? Re- 
 member, that for every accident of any of these kinds, the 
 street-car companies would have to pay heavy damages, and 
 that they would not invest millions of dollars in a system 
 that was hazardous. 
 
 What is the Use of Talking? 
 
 What is the use of talking about storage batteries, when 
 even the professed experts called by our opponents were 
 forced to admit that it was absolutely impossible for com- 
 panies to use the storage batteries because of their great 
 weight and cost to begin with, and the fact that they wear 
 out in from eight to eighteen months ? 
 
 What is the use of talking of a cable in view of its cost ? 
 If an ordinance were offered to permit this company to dig 
 up all these forty, miles of streets and put cables in them there 
 would be a protest ten times louder and more earnest than 
 this. 
 
 What is the use in talking about the Buda-Pesth conduit 
 with a slot from one and one-half to one and three-quarters 
 inches wide on our narrow streets, where every team and car- 
 riage must use the car-track, and where the ^ow and ice and 
 water would necessarily destroy the electric current ? 
 
 What is the use of talking about any conduits when they 
 have all been tried and tested and abandoned as practical im- 
 possibilities, in this country, at least ? 
 
 Of course. Professor Marks, being an electrical expert and 
 inventor, would not admit that one could not be invented 
 which would overcome all the obstacles which, up to this 
 time, have proved insurmountable. How much of practical 
 value there is in the inchoate one which is floating around 
 somewhere in his brain-cells, like the earth in the beginning, 
 " without form and void," is shown by the fact that it has never 
 
 119 
 
 yet materialized, and he has not thought it worth his while 
 to apply for letters patent. It is worth absolutely nothing, or 
 it is worth |;i,ooo,ooo this very minute. If he had the 
 remotest suspicion that he had invented such a conduit of any 
 practical value no lightning express train between here and 
 Washington would be half fast enough for him. 
 
 Oh, but we are told to wait ; that some how, some time, 
 some one may invent a storage battery cheap enough to use or 
 a conduit which will work. So some one, some how, some 
 time may possibly " in the sweet by-and-by ; " but as soon 
 as the thing is actually done down will come the trolley 
 wires, and that as a cold-blooded matter of business, not as a 
 matter of sentiment. 
 
 We have waited, and the people of this city have waited, 
 for rapid transit, lo ! these many years. So have hundreds of 
 other similar companies waited, but they have waited in vain 
 for a better system. All the electrical experts and inventors 
 in the world have been trying for years to solve this problem, 
 and millions of dollars have been spent, but thus far all in 
 vain. 
 
 Oh, yes, it is all very well for you people who live on 
 aristocratic Walnut Street, and who don't need rapid transit ; 
 who love to hear the old-fashioned horse-car go lazily jingling 
 down one street and leisurely dawdling up the other, to say 
 ** Wait, wait." But there are nearly half a million less fortu- 
 nate people than yourself who cannot afford to wait any 
 longer for the remote possibility of some other system mate- 
 rializing in this generation. 
 
 So that it must be admitted by all fair-minded people 
 that, judging by the experience of so many other cities, all 
 these objections on the score of danger are widely exagger- 
 ated, and that the trolley system, while by no means all that 
 could be desired, is the best yet known. 
 
 The Traction Company does not like it any better than you 
 do. But it is with it as it is with you — a clear case of Hob- 
 son's choice. They had to do just what you will have to do — 
 choose between the trolley system and the old-fashioned horse- 
 car. 
 
I20 
 
 I admit that from a high artistic standpoint these slender 
 standards or poles are unsightly, but I timidly suggest that 
 they will not be nearly as inartistic and unsightly as the mul- 
 titudinous and massive telegraph and electric light poles 
 which, with hundreds of unsightly and dangerous wires, line, 
 and have for years lined, both sides of Broad Qtreet and our 
 own beloved Chestnut Street. I admit that our beautiful 
 cobble-stone pavements ought not to be thus desecrated, if it 
 be possible to avoid such desecration. I admit that the 
 stately and splendid edifices — ^the superb creations of the 
 architect's genius — which line South Street and Lombard 
 Street and Bainbridge Street, and many other equally aristo- 
 cratic and fashionable thoroughfares down in the " Neck " 
 and up in Kensington, could be seen to better advantage if 
 this idea of rapid transit were wholly abandoned. 
 
 But this is a very plain, practical world, sadly lacking in 
 ** light and sweetness," and with very little of the " true artis- 
 tic feeling." While a few of our people have cultivated their 
 artistic tastes to such an extent that they are shocked at the 
 idea of permitting the erection of a magnificent equestrian 
 statue of Washington in Independence Square, or of the trol- 
 ley system on streets upon which they never travel, the great 
 body of our people, to whom rapid transit is an absolute 
 necessity, will gladly accept this as one of the slight incon- 
 veniences to which they must submit for the sake of a great 
 public improvement. 
 
 ARGUMENT OF JOHN G. JOHNSON, ESQ. 
 
 The question that you have to consider, and the only 
 question which you have a right to consider — and which, I 
 take it, you will consider- — ^is whether, in your judgment, as 
 the representatives, not of Spruce and Pine Streets, or of any 
 particular locality, but of this whole city, it will be for the 
 best interests of the citizens of Philadelphia that you shall 
 pass these ordinances. That is the only question that you 
 can consider, and every other question is as the idle wind, and 
 the discussion of it is a waste of your time. 
 
 " And yet Mr. Bullitt and the gentleman specially retained 
 to present the objections of the protestants against this meas- 
 ure, a gentleman thoroughly capable of doing the work, has 
 devoted his whole time, as Mr. Shapley very aptly said, not 
 to that consideration, but to a minute criticism of the wordii^ 
 of the ordinances that have been presented, to a mere discus- 
 sion of its details, and an appeal to your prejudices and a mere 
 raising before you of a scarecrow as harmless as the one with 
 which the farmer protects his fields. And the excuse that he 
 gives, and the excuse that his junior colleague gives, is that 
 they have not had time ! Do not press these things through, 
 they say, with this unseemly haste, but give us time and we 
 will overwhelm the defects of this measure, not with the 
 flimsy objection that they present in every direction, but 
 with the intention of real objections that they think they will 
 find if they have sufficient time. 
 
 ** You are told that these ordinances are singularly desti- 
 tute and the bill singularly reprehensible in that you do not 
 prescribe in all the details of the construction of the electric 
 wire system. Which one of you would care to take upon 
 himself the duty and the responsibility of saying by an or- 
 dinance how it should be constructed ? Where is the ordi- 
 nance of any of your bodies, your own or your predecessors^ 
 
 (121) 
 
 t 
 
122 
 
 in which you put into the specifications of construction. In 
 this ordinance it is provided that the wires shall be erected 
 under the direction, under the supervision,' of the Department 
 irf Public Safety. The gentleman would prefer that you 
 would legislate out of existence an officer whom you have 
 created, the head of the Electrical Bureau, who is in the De- 
 partment of Safety. The gentleman prefers the Director of 
 Public Works. You are asked to say that the department in 
 which the intelligence lies that can supervise this thing shall 
 supervise it, the Department of Public Safety, and that the 
 chief of the Electrical Bureau should supervise this work. 
 We prefer that that should be done, and that you should 
 not pass beyond the general question of whether the citi- 
 zens demand the thing shall be done, and not undertake \o 
 {m>vide the specifications or construction. 
 
 The Same Thing Over Again. 
 
 •* Why, over a year ago, measures substantially similar to 
 these were presented to your Councils. The same gentleman 
 appeared before Councils, and then he said the same thing, 
 for, though I did not attend your meetings, I saw the report 
 oi it in the papers. Give us time, he then said, over a year 
 ago, and we will do this thing. How much time does he 
 want ? Why, you are twitted with the fact that they have 
 gained so much of the time in which it was your duty to 
 l^^ate that you are now in the dying hours ol your office. 
 You were told over a year ago, * Give us time,* and you arc 
 now asked not to do it at all, so that another Council, igno- 
 rant of the subject, may have these objections, worn thread- 
 bare n'ow so that you can see through them, before that 
 same Council with the same objections presented, with 
 the same demand for time. Now 'what does it amount 
 to? Why, says Mr. Bullitt, these ordinances are defect- 
 ive because you do hot include within them a proviso that 
 after the expenditure of from $4,000,000 to $5,000,000 in 
 giving this city rapid transit they do not include the pro- 
 viso that the whole thing, after that expenditure, shall 
 
 123 
 
 be torn up whenever Councils shall see fit to demand it. 
 
 Why, gentlemen, this is not the first time that a railroad has 
 demanded an ordinance of Councils sanctioning its construc- 
 tion. In all the host of ordinances that you have passed 
 where is there contained in one of them a proviso that after 
 the men, upon the faith of your ordinances, have made their 
 expenditures that the thing shall be torn up at your will ? I 
 am reminded in connection with this demand for time that 
 this committee after these ordinances were presented in the 
 month of May visited Boston for the purpose of informing 
 itself, so that it might legislate intelligently. All that is to 
 be thrown away. 
 
 The Guarantee of Self-interest. 
 
 ^ain, gentlemen, not only must this construction be un- 
 der that supervision, but you have guaranteed for its construc- 
 tion in the best manner that science will permit, that best of 
 all guarantees, self-interest. You may trust that when every 
 other security that can be devised and can be given fails. The 
 men in charge of this enterprise do not any more dare, would 
 no more dare to construct this system without bringing to 
 their aid the best science and knowledge that can be found, 
 than they would dare to fly. Let a single accident happen 
 and let the person injured by that accident, aided by the 
 counsel and the assistants who will endeaver to make a case 
 against the company, let a sii^le person be hurt and with 
 that assistance let there be but a weak point in this construc- 
 tion, let it be able to be proved that there was a single device 
 known to science that could have been used and that was not 
 used, and the effect of that omission will be infinitely greater 
 than any cost of any kind that could be devised. 
 
 " I am amazed that in a question that involves the public 
 weal, in a question of this apparent importance, whether the 
 public interest demand this thing or not, that Mr. Bullitt 
 should think it necessary for the purposes of his case, after all 
 this loud parade and blasting of trumpets, and all the scare, 
 should find it necessary to get down and throw mud. It 
 
124 
 
 amounts to nothing more than that to say you should deny to 
 the Traction Company, who come here and ask you to do this 
 thing just because they ask it, and that they should tell you 
 that the Thirteenth and Fifteenth Streets Railway was orig- 
 inally constructed at a cost of ;$536,ooo, and its stock is now 
 selling for;$3,8oo,ooo, and that it pays a dividend of $igopcyQ, 
 Well, gentlemen, where would the city of Philadelphia have 
 been if there had been no street horse passenger railway ? 
 And yet Mr. Shapley has shown you their introduction was 
 inveighed against as dangerous to property and life, and that 
 they were introduced only with a stru^le, and at that time, 
 when men then advanced their money for their construction, 
 there was as little chance of gain as there is in numberless 
 other things where men have grown colossally rich by doing 
 that which at the time seemed most doubtful. 
 
 The Traction Company as a Taxpayer. 
 
 " But what is the use of going back to the time when these 
 railways were introduced originally in determining their divi- 
 dends ? Where are the men now that originally constructed 
 them ? How many of them are in life, and of those that are 
 in life how few of them own a share of stock. They have en- 
 tered into the investments of this community, and if the capi- 
 tal stock of the Thirteenth and Fifteenth Street Passenger 
 Railwa}' is now ^3,800,000, it represents in this community 
 that much property for which the present holders have paid 
 that much, and the 1(190,000 that is so much inveighed 
 s^inst is but five per cent. Why, one of the most intelligent 
 of the newspapers which opposed this construction was 
 bought at a time not nearly as distant as the construction of 
 these railways, if report be true, for the sum of ^i$o,ooo. 
 Would its owners to-day sell it for |(2,ooo,ooo ? The prop- 
 erty that the Board of Revision returned whien it made its 
 first estimate of values of the property of this city was 
 valued at |( 300,000,000; to-day it is valued at ^700,000,000. 
 Values grow. The men who take their chances, and take 
 them with judgment, make the money, and the capital of 
 
 "5 
 
 the community represents not what was paid in the days of 
 Penn for all the land upon which Philadelphia is situated, 
 but what is paid for it now and what it is now assessed at 
 for taxation, and this Traction Company that has been so 
 much talked against as reaping colossal profits stands thus in 
 the community as a taxpayer. And upon this subject there 
 is more unintelligent criticism, more throwing of mud with- 
 out cause, that you can conceive of. 
 
 " They say, make these people do as the Mayor of Newark 
 did, who exacted five per cent, upon gross receipts. For the 
 .year ending December 31st, 1891, the gross receipts of the 
 Traction Company were ;^3, 54 1,621. For repairs to streets 
 alone it paid |>77,6o9. It paid to this city in taxes $72,962. 
 It paid to the Commonwealth for taxes $81,071, and it paid 
 for new streets |{ 15,000, an aggregate of $246,643, or seven 
 per cent, on gross receipts, and it paid to its stockholders a 
 dividend two years ^go of nothing, one year ago of four per 
 cent., and this year six per cent, upon actual cash paid in, and 
 the gentleman tells us that it owes the city for new Belgian 
 block pavement $209,000, which will raise its taxes to thirteen 
 percent, and over. 
 
 The Traction's Liability. 
 
 "And it stands face to face with the liability to pay from 
 time to time for paving with new Belgian blocks forty miles 
 of its streets at a cost of $30,000 per mile, or |l 1,200,000 ; and 
 gentlemen who ought to know, an^ if they do not know they 
 had better learn, have the audacity to say, as if the Traction 
 Company was getting privileges for nothing, whether the 
 public demand it or not, don't give a right to these people 
 unless you make them pay some taxes. And then there is 
 talk about being in arrears and some special fund being short. 
 What does that question of arrears mean ? The people who 
 made their money out of the original construction of street 
 passenger railways, as I say, are gone. They are succeeded 
 by others who paid high prices for the stock that they now 
 hold upon the. belief that the law was that it was the duty of 
 the passenger railway companies to pave between the rails, 
 
126 
 
 and only to repair the streets outside of the rails, and that it 
 was not their duty to repave the streets whether Councils 
 should demand it or not, and they made a grievous mistake, 
 a grievous mistake of law, when they purchased their property 
 upon that supposition, for the Supreme Court of this State 
 has decided that it is their duty to repave, when the Councils 
 shall demand, the whole of this forty miles of street. But as 
 I said, of course, that is a duty that will be exacted by the 
 city, of paving the other streets in the same way, and the goods 
 sent will be used in adjusting that burden in such a way as to 
 not make it intolerable. 
 
 "When they talk about arrears for the past paving, it would 
 be well to inquire in the department of the City Solicitor, 
 and know what the true state of affairs is, which is this : 
 When the city made its claim in the very great uncertainty 
 as to whether it could collect it or not, it filed against every 
 passenger railway which crossed the other, or, as so many do, 
 use the same track, it filed the same bill s^ainst all of the pas* 
 senger railways, and against at least three companies in nu- 
 merous cases the same bill is charged, and the City Solicitor 
 is now arranging, with the aid of the passenger railways, that 
 the true amount of the bills shall be ascertained, and in one 
 company which is just about to settle the deduction has been 
 exceedingly great. 
 
 Settled by the Supreme Court. 
 
 ''Now what is the use of talking that stuff any more? 
 Can you add anything to the obligation that the Supreme 
 Court of this State has said is one of law ? An obligation 
 
 which they said, interpreting the charter as it has not been 
 interpreted before, as obligatory upon it as a charter obliga- 
 tion — can you add to the law, and why should you therefore 
 when the law has been finally settled by the Supreme Court 
 of this Commonwealth ? The matter is in the hands of the 
 City Solicitor, who has energetically pushed the case to a 
 conclusion in which the city has won, and I think you may 
 trust him that after having got the judgment he will see that 
 
 12y 
 
 as soon as the amount is properly adjusted the execution will 
 issue. 
 
 "Then you are told that the Mayor vetoed an electric 
 light ordinance and, therefore, you should not pass this. The 
 difference between the electric light and the trolley system h 
 this: The electric light can go underground and the other 
 cannot. 
 
 "But Mr. Bullitt, after having got through that came to 
 the scarecrow part of it, and he flaunted before you his seven 
 thousand two hundred and sixty-three signatures, which 
 represented, as he said, thirty-six thousand people, but under 
 the deft fingers of his junior colleague they have grown to 
 one hundred and eighty thousand. Thank God, there is not 
 a third speaker on that side, or, like the man in buckram, of 
 whom Falstaff spoke, there would have been five hundred 
 and forty thousand if he had talked. 
 
 " Now, those were the objections Mr. Bullitt made, and 
 Mr. Smith added to them an unreasonable one, and I do not 
 know how I can deal with that— that the ordinance is de- 
 fective in that it does not provide for compensation for the 
 trees that may be cut down when the wires are put up. 
 
 " After we have paid out four or five millions of dollars^ if 
 there are a few trees to go, well ! 
 
 " Now, how were these signatures obtained ? I remember— 
 for all young lawyers go through the experience of prac- 
 ticing by addressing public audiences in little country towns 
 at political meetings— and I remember how in my early youth 
 (I would to God I could return to it, even with the dis- 
 advantage of a slim audience) I was invited to speak in a 
 country town. I think it was Doylestown. It was the occa- 
 sion of my life, and I saw placarded around the town in letters 
 as big as those you have seen on the dirt piles and on the 
 brick-heaps : — 
 
 "* Great Political Meeting. 
 
 " * Come as the winds come when forests are rendered, 
 " * Come as the waves come when navies are stranded,* 
 
 and 1 went there and there were three people to hear me. 
 (Laughter.) 
 
128 
 
 " ' It is highly important that members of Council (here Mr. 
 Johnson read from an anti-trolley circular) should realize the 
 universal popular repugnance to this scheme, and this can best 
 
 be obtained at present by a large attendance at this meeting. 
 It is therefore reasonably hoped that you will be present.* Of 
 the one million one hundred thousand thus abjured to be 
 present, how many have cared to come ? It is true that they 
 scared out of their retirement Mr. Joshua Bailey and Mr. 
 Lockwood. They were tempted from their seclusion and al- 
 most tempted to break that silence they love so well. 
 [Laughter.] 
 
 A Cure for Prevarication. 
 
 " Why, gentlemen, the day will come — ^yes, and will come 
 goon — when they will be ashamed of tactics like this. If you 
 have a good cause you need no misrepresentation. My friend, 
 Mr. Shapley, reminds me of a panacea which I saw adver- 
 tised in the Philadelphia Times a few days ago. Some one 
 had discovered bichloride of aluminum which would be a sure 
 cure, if properly injected, for prevarication. (Laughter.) But 
 1 do not think a bichloride is strong enough. They want a 
 quinitichloride, or something else. 
 
 " But it remained for Mr. Smith to bring out that black map. 
 As if the death-head and cross-bones were not sufficient, he 
 turned it all black. Sympathy ! Why, you know if you have 
 a pain in one eye, the other pains, and the citizens of Spruce 
 and Pine Streets feel that the citizens on Chestnut and Wal- 
 nut Streets would be so sympathetic that they turn black, 
 too, and they have got them all black. But here is a thing 
 they ought to be ashamed of. * The report of the Massa- 
 chusetts Railroad Commissioner (here Mr. Johnson again 
 quoted from the anti-trolley circular) shows that for the year 
 ending September 30th, 1891, the number of victims of the 
 trolley system on one company's line in Boston were — that is 
 all black, too— killed fifteen, wounded two hundred and 
 thirty-nine; total, two hundred and fifty-four, and under- 
 scored, lest the citizens should not see it' * All citizens should 
 unite in the effort to protect Philadelphia from the introduc- 
 
 129 
 
 tion of a sj^tem so destructive to life and property.' Yet in 
 your own hearing the gentleman who volunteered to give 
 these statistics admitted that not one of them was killed or 
 wounded by the electric current. It is inseparable from the 
 doing of business, and of transportation by any system in a 
 crowded city that some men shall be killed and some men 
 shall be wounded, and, great heavens, what would become of 
 our profession if it were not so? 
 
 " Does any one pretend to say that more were not killed 
 when the horse-cars were running ? There is no doubt that 
 most worthy people— people that many of us love— that more 
 of us respect— have signed this paper believing that the trolley 
 system would be a serious injury to them. That paper is not 
 an emanation of chance. That paper is by order of whom ? 
 By order of the Union Committee, opposing traction ordi- 
 nances for the introduction of trolley wires in Philadelpliia, 
 because that one Boston railroad line— and that railroad line 
 has nearly all of Boston's lines— killed that many people, and 
 that, therefore, their lives were in danger. They admit— Mr. 
 Smith admits— that on investigation he finds it is not danger- 
 ous. The last pronunciamento of the committee is to the 
 effect that the more it is examined the more dangerous it is 
 found to be, and that a united effort should be made to save 
 Philadelphia from the experience of other cities. The bi- 
 chloride is not strong enough. 
 
 After One Year's Protest. 
 
 " If there is any harm to be done by it, the materials and 
 the opportunity to discover it, after this year of retaining Mr. 
 Bullitt, ought to be at hand. How did they do it ? Mr. 
 Smith admits that he said something wrong about the killing 
 of the boy by a trolley wire in Columbia, where there is no 
 trolley wire. But somebody says that somebody told him 
 that he heard it That is about the sort of testimony we have 
 had here. It reminds us of the old doggrel, 'And the parson 
 told the sexton and the sexton tolled the bell.' (Laughter.) 
 
 " If it were true that danger lurked in this thing, if they had 
 wanted to, how could they have gone about discovering it ? 
 
There are two hundred and fifty towns in which it is intro- 
 duced — some of them the largest cities in the Union. They 
 could have inquired of the mayors of those cities, and if it 
 had been dangerous to life and property they would probably, 
 some of them, have told the truth. This matter has been 
 fought in almost every city, and has been the subject of the 
 most elaborate investigation, and if anything had been discov- 
 ered they could have ascertained it by this method of pro- 
 cedure. There have been trials in court, there have been 
 men called under oath, and if there was anything dangerous 
 in the system they could have pointed to them. 
 
 " Insurance business is done in every city of the Union. If 
 it had increased the risk they could very easily have produced 
 statistics. There are bureaus of vital statistics in all towns, 
 and if there had been deaths or injury to property they could 
 have found it out. 
 
 " There are electricians in this country who are not favora- 
 ble to the trolley system, but who thoroughly understand the 
 electric system of propelling cars. They could have called 
 them. Did they do it ? Not one of them did they call. 
 They called two young gentlemen who did not know any- 
 thing about electricity by profession — I will not say by profes- 
 sion — ^by trade — ^who knew everything by profession. They 
 called no man from amongst the great electricians of the 
 country to give you any information upon the subject. 
 Why ? Because they very well knew that if they called 
 them they would find nothing in it. This is what they did, 
 yet this was a great emei^ency. 
 
 How Information was Obtained. 
 
 " The mayor of Newark had been called to tell you how 
 this S3rstem worked, and they felt it necessary to detail their 
 best forces; and the gentlemen who signed this paper as 
 chairman and Mr. Stokes went, like the navigators of the 
 olden time, in search of the Holy Grail. This is the way 
 they went about getting information that would be of value 
 to you. They first went, in order to be sure and solid, to a 
 couple of lawyers to whom Mr. Bullitt sent them. Exhaust- 
 
 \ 
 
 ^3^ 
 
 ing.that matter, they stopped people going along the street. 
 They fixed them with a glittering eye like the ancient mariner, 
 and they asked them, unlike the ancient mariner, to tell the 
 tale. And whilst the oysters were stewing Mr. Stokes inter- 
 viewed the man in charge of the stew-pot. (Laughter.) The 
 result was the exceedingly valuable information they gave 
 you. Since the time of John Phoenix there has never been 
 an investigation like that. He belonged to the United States 
 Coast Survey, and it became necessary for him to know the 
 length of the main street in San Francisco. He was duly 
 armed with a tripod, and, not having any preliminary instruc- 
 tion in the ascertaining of distances, he would put it down 
 there and there and he soon got tired. He found that would 
 not do and he bethought himself of a predometer. He fixed 
 that to the heel of his shoe and it was a great success, until 
 very like Mr. Stokes— for history repeats itself— he went 
 down to so many saloons that the predometer soon measured 
 a thousand miles. (Laughter.) After having exhausted this 
 matter he asked the omnibus driver and was told it was three 
 miles, and that appears in the records of the Coast Survey. 
 
 " What is the damage done ? What have they shown you ? 
 They talk about the disfigurement by the erection of poles, as 
 if three tiny poles in every block would add much to the dis- 
 figurement of our main streets. Mr. Shapley has depicted in 
 a way that I cannot equal how much they add to the disfig- 
 urement of Shippen and the other streets. What about the 
 disfigurement caused by this Council, which has voted for 
 ^20,000,000 which has been spent on the Public Buildings, 
 and has voted that an elevated road shall be put around tliem. 
 The less talk about disfigurement the better. That was done 
 under the guise of a necessity, and disfigurement cropped out 
 
 Mr. Elverson's Printing-Presses. 
 
 "And then, the noise. Why, when these gentlemen told 
 these pathetic tales of the sleepless nights in the hot summer, 
 when they will probably all be out of town^but still, if you 
 are too literal, it will spoil the pathos— when they told their 
 sad and pathetic tales of how they would lie awake at night. 
 
132 
 
 listening to that noise, it reminded me of an attempt to get: 
 an injunction to stop a printing-press at the comer of Ninth 
 and Spruce, where the would-be injunctor was a lawyer. He- 
 had sworn that the noise of these printing-presses was per- 
 fectly intolerable, that his family had no sleep, his wife, who 
 was an exceedingly plump and pretty woman, was worn to« 
 skin and bone by sleeplessness, and his baby — he had a great 
 many children — his baby was becoming a skeleton. We were- 
 on the eve of having a permanent injunction issued against 
 the establishment, had cost ^ioo,cx>o to construct, when, in 
 desperation, the court appointed three practical men to go to 
 the premises and investigate. They were entirely disinter- 
 ested, and some months afterwards they came in with a re- 
 port that they could hear no noise that in the slightest d^ee- 
 interfered with their comfort, and I ascertained how they ar- 
 rived at their conclusion. These printing-presses were de- 
 picted in the testimony as making a noise like Niagara, and 
 the master, living in the country, had come down to the city- 
 and had slept there all night, and found he could not sleep.. 
 This was probably due to the lobster salad they gave him. 
 But these three disinterested experts went into the premises- 
 
 and said to Mrs. , *Are the presses running now ?' She 
 
 said : ' I really do not know, but I will send Georgie around 
 to find out' (Laughter.) That is the sort of a noise we will' 
 have here. In consideration of the fact that you have fast- 
 ened upon me, as a resident of Broad Street, the damnable 
 noise of the omnibuses, I have little sympathy for you if you 
 must hear the little whirring noise which these trolleys may 
 make. 
 
 No Danger from Fire. 
 
 " Then this danger of fire being introduced into the house.. 
 Well, that does require cash outlay to prevent, and I think 
 they had better put this man who agrees to reduce the cost 
 from seventy-five to twenty cents in the ordinance, providing 
 he sticks to his bargain. That there is no danger by fire, Mr. 
 Shapley has already told you. All the testimony concerning" 
 these two hundred and fifty cities in which they have the^ 
 trolley system s^ees in showing there has never been an in- 
 
 133 
 
 <:rease in the rate of insurance. Mr. Smith told you he did 
 not know but what they would have to put up the rates of 
 insurance here. What a pity they did not wait a month. 
 Here is a paper received on February 26th, 1892. If it was 
 March 26th, after this ordinance would be passed, this notice 
 ■would be the result of the introduction of the trolley wire- 
 But unfortunately, they made history a little too early. The 
 Philadelphia underwriters say: *We hereby agree that all 
 tates as published shall be advanced twenty per cent.—this 
 advance to be applied by members at their counters.' 
 
 "There is not a word of testimony that any fires have oc- 
 <:urred. No one undertakes to deny that it can be absolutely 
 guaranteed against, and the insurance rates have never been 
 increased. *Oh,' they say, 'the wires might drop; there 
 •might come a storm and that storm, might be a malicious and 
 malignant sort of a storm, and it might sweep under these 
 telephone wires with one grand swoop and sweep it on to the 
 trolley wire, and that infernal and malicious telephone wire, 
 thus impelled in that extraordinary way, might tumble on the 
 trolley wke, and the trolley wire might break, and it might be 
 a stormy night, but notwithstanding the storm that knocked 
 it down it might be dry, and there might be a man under it 
 with, as Mr. Smith suggested, the heart disease— and heaven 
 only knows what would happen. It reminds me of the ex- 
 traordinary care with which Mrs. Toodles provided gainst 
 the possibility of Toodles, who was then in fairiy good health, 
 unexpectedly dying, and her marrying a man by the name of 
 Thompson— Thompson with a 'p'— and guarding against 
 his dying by buying a cofifin plate with • Thompson ' on it- 
 Thompson with a 'p.' There is nothing like taking care of 
 things. 
 
 What Edison Swore To. 
 
 " Just let me read what no less a man than Thomas A. 
 Edison said, not in a speech— for talk is so easy— but under 
 oath in a judicial proceeding : — 
 
 " * Q. What is the voltage of the current employed in oper- 
 atmg the Sprague system of single trolley overhead wires? 
 
 " * A. About five hundred volts. 
 
134 
 
 " * Q. State whether or not the current so employed is dan- 
 gerous to the life of hum'an beings or animals, and the reason 
 you have for your statement concerning the same. 
 
 " ' A. I do not consider five hundred volts as dangerous to 
 either human life or animals, but, by special appliances which 
 have been brought out in the investigation for killing crimi- 
 nals, conducted at my laboratory for the State of New York, I 
 believe it is possible to produce death by a somewhat con- 
 tinued application of five hundred volts. 
 
 " ' Q. In what form of current supplying that voltage ? 
 
 " * A. In the continuous current, with the alternating cur- 
 rent, &c. As I said, it first required special appliances ta 
 the person, and some continued application of the currents 
 These conditions could never arise by accident. 
 
 " * Q. Have you testified on this subject of dangerous cur- 
 rents ; and, if so, where and before what bodies or courts ? 
 
 " * A. I have testified before a commission sent by the court 
 in Buffalo in the case of Kemmler sentenced to death by 
 electricity. I have also testified as to experiments conducted 
 for the State before a grand jury in New York City.' 
 
 " * They say the values of property will decrease. I know 
 Mr. Courtland Parker, one of the two Newark lawyers. If 
 he had been here and knew the exigencies of the situation 
 he would not have said what was said. He would have been 
 silent on the subject of values. He said the values in the 
 centre of the city had not been diminished, but the values in 
 the suburbs had increased, but not to as great an extent as- 
 had been expected. Do you believe that the value of prop- 
 erty in the suburbs will not be greatly increased ? Do you 
 not know what makes the value of property in the centre of 
 the city ? It is the accessibility of the suburbs to the centre 
 of the city. Deprive the Chestnut Street merchants and the 
 other people doing business in the centre of the city of easy 
 access to the centre of the city from the suburbs and the val- 
 ues of their property will decrease. 
 
 " The suburbs grow by reason of their easy access to the 
 centre of the city, and the centre of the city grows in value 
 because the suburbs have access to it. 
 
 135 
 
 Mr. Farrelly's Bluff. 
 
 " Now, on that subject of values, we had some significant 
 testimony from Mr. Farrelly. What brought Mr. Farrelly 
 here I do not know. I think his business afifiliations are here. 
 He came here and told you that he would sell his property 
 for $$000 less if this ordinance was passed, and when a writ- 
 ten contract was signed — Mr. Bullitt said he would guarantee 
 his offer— both Mr. Bullitt and Mr. Farrelly escaped from 
 the contract in this way: Mr. Farrelly said I did not mean I 
 would sell it for ^5000 less than what it was now worth, but 
 115000 less than what I asked for it some time a^o; and Mr. 
 Bullitt escaped from his guarantee by talking about the 
 money-changers in the temple. That was a bad time to quote 
 Scripture. He backed the wager and then he backed out. That 
 is like Mr. Smith's trees. Amid all this wreck there arises to 
 the surface Mr. Smith's trees and the bicycle ridere that it 
 would interfere with. I wish to G<xi it would. 
 
 Real Advantages of the Measure. 
 
 "Now, gentlemen, so much for these perils evolved from 
 the lively imagination of counsel. What are the real advan- 
 tages of this measure ? You have been twitted that some of 
 you are going out of office. This question of rapid transit has 
 unseated many of your members. You have been compelled 
 under this demand, which is louder than the roar of the ocean, 
 to make every interest yield, and you have fastened upon 
 this city by ordinance, under clamor and demand, a most 
 damnable nuisance. Under a demand, imperative, overrid- 
 ing, and dominating, you have been compelled to fasten 
 upon this city the most damnable nuisance that was 
 ever devised — an elevated railroad. You have had to do it 
 under the stress of this demand. Men have lost their seats 
 in Council because they didn't yield to that demand. You 
 have passed an ordinance planting in one of our great busi- 
 ness streets an elevated road; and another ordinance planting 
 another on Ridge Avenue, and another on Front Street. 
 
136 
 
 Why ? Because it gratified the artistic taste or the aesthetic 
 sense; because it did not injure or destroy the streets ? No. 
 Because you were compelled, on account of the demand, to 
 sacrifice the few for the many. What is the result ? There 
 is no more possibility of the city of Philadelphia having rapid 
 transit from elevated railroads than there is of a direct inter- 
 position of heav^ in that respect. It won't pay. However 
 those railways are constructed, they will not pay any person 
 to take chaise of them, and to run them, taking into considera- 
 tion the cost of the plant. They are simply impossible. If 
 they undertook to stop at every square, or midway in a square, 
 then their rapid transit would be slower than a horse-car. No 
 one is going to climb up a high pair of stairs, nor go down a 
 long pair of stairs, in order to reach them. No men are going 
 to sacrifice ^10,000,000 to construct a thing which would be 
 a certain loss. That you all know. 
 
 " Now, to these Councils there has been a demand made, 
 great and overpowering, that rapid transit shall be afforded. 
 To that demand it has been opposed that great injury would 
 be inflicted. You have been talked to and talked to about 
 this — about these trifling, insignificant disadvantages, as stand- 
 ing in the way of rapid transit. All that you know, because 
 you have heard it here. But, on the other hand, we iiave 
 called before you here men who, while it is true that they are 
 interested in the business, are men who commended themselves 
 to your judgment by what they said, men whose cross-exam- 
 ination only made their testimony the stronger and more im- 
 pressive, men whom no one has dared to contradict ; you have 
 heard them, and from them you know that there is no possi- 
 bility of any electric system but the trolley wire giving 
 rapid transit, that the underground system is a myth, and 
 that the storage-battery system is bosh. 
 
 What the Trolley System Will Do. 
 
 " Now, in giving you this rapid transit, just look at the map. 
 You will pass ordinances to bring West Philadelphia into 
 direct contact with the city, and Darby with West Philadel- 
 
 phia ; and ordinances to bring Kensington and Frankford in, 
 and the extreme northwestern portions of the city with the 
 extreme eastern portions and southwestern portions. But, 
 they say, you cannot run more than so many miles an hour. 
 Is it so that God Almighty has decided upon six miles an 
 hour as the absolute maximum of speed ? What does rapid 
 transit mean? It means that you are to have something 
 which will enable you to made a combination in time so as 
 to make, as one of the witnesses put it, a combination which 
 will insure greater speed. You cannot have a system by 
 which electric cars will run simply in the outskirts and then 
 have to take on horses in order to run the balance of the 
 route. Nobody would run a road in that way. The people 
 would not submit to the loss of time required for transhipment 
 from the electric cars. The testimony of all the cities which 
 have adopted this plan is that there have always been exten- 
 sions of the plan — that there are constantly growing exten- 
 sions of the plan ; the fact faces you that when once that 
 plan has been adopted there has never been any recesion 
 from it, so that practical experience has demonstrated the 
 fact that by that system you have real rapid transit from every 
 part of the town. 
 
 The Gibe of Comic Papers. 
 
 " There are minor advantages of larger and cleaner cars, of 
 an ability to stop more rapidly, of the taking off your streets 
 the filth that comes from the use of horses, and questions of 
 humanity. All these are great, but they constitute minor 
 considerations. On the one hand you have some disad- 
 vantages which amount to but little, and on the other hand 
 you have advantages, which are very great. What is the 
 answer to it all ? Wait ! Wait ! Gentlemen, this city has 
 waited too long. At the time of the Revolution this was a 
 great city— a leader in the Union. To-day the comic papers 
 of the country make it a gibe. You have sunk to the third 
 place by the last census, and God only knows where you will 
 sink to by the next Wait! Wait! You have waited. What 
 
The Tnoum $y$te;m. 
 
 Used in over two hundred cities in this country — 
 By over three hundred street railway com- 
 panies — Upon forty hundred and sixty-two 
 miles of track, and operating seventy -one 
 hundred and eighty- one electric cars. 
 
 In view of the heated controversy now being waged 
 over the ordinances to permit the use in this city of 
 electric cars propelled by the Trolley System, it will 
 be found interesting to look over the following list 
 of cities where the use of the system has been per- 
 mitted, and of companies which have adopted and are 
 using it. 
 
 It is to be presumed that it has not been adopted by 
 over three hundred street railway companies, at a cost 
 of over $155,000,000, operating seventy-one hundred 
 and eighty-one cars over forty hundred and sixty-two 
 miles of track, and its use permitted by over two 
 hundred cities and large towns, especially cities like 
 Boston, where it has been longest in use, until they 
 were all thoroughly satisfied that the objections now 
 urged against its introduction here were wholly 
 groundless. 
 
140 
 
 List of Cities and Towns Where Electric Roads 
 (Trolley System) are in Operation and Being 
 Constructed. 
 
 , MlUSS OF 
 
 Location. cars. 
 
 Location. ^^^^^ Cars. 
 
 Brooklyn, N. Y g^o 
 
 Boston, Mass 
 
 Baltimore, Md „ -g 
 
 Pittsburgh, Pa. :::::::::: 120 
 
 Cleveland. O ^ 
 
 St. Louis, Mo 87 217 
 
 Cincinnati, O. 285 
 
 Louisville, Ky 80 
 
 Indianapolis, Ind. 27 xi 
 
 Rochester, N. Y. 60 100 
 
 Syracuse, N. Y 31 
 
 Minneapolis, Minn 127 200 
 
 " 75 100 
 
 Omaha, Neb ^ 
 
 Mnjss OF 
 
 Location. Namb of Road. track Cars 
 
 New Albany . Ind. New Albany Elec. Ry 2 ' 6 
 
 Indianapolis . *• Citizens SL Ry. Co 27 31 
 
 Richmond . . " Richmond City Ry. Co 13 16 
 
 So. Bend ..." So. B. & Mishawaka Ry 10 16 
 
 Terre Haute. " Terre Haute St. Ry. Co 8 48 
 
 Anderson . . " Anderson Elec. St. Ry. Co 2 4 
 
 Elkhart ..." Elkhart Elec. Ry. Co. 7 h 
 
 Lafayette . . " Lafayette St. Ry. Co 4 9 
 
 Marion ..." Marion St. Ry. Co jo n 
 
 Logansport . " Logansport Ry. Co 4 4 
 
 Boise City . . Idaho. Boise Rapid Tran. Co [ 3 2 
 
 Ottumwa . . . Iowa. Ottumwa Ry. Elec. & Steam Co. . . 5 8 
 
 Council Bluflfe, " Omaha & C. B. Ry. Co . 20 56 
 
 Burlington . . " The Burlington Elec. Ry. Co. . . . n 19 
 
 Dubuque . . " Key City Elec. St. Ry. Co 2 4 
 
 Des Momes . « Des Moines St. Ry. Co 40 47 
 
 Dubuque . . " Elec. Ry. L. & P. Co 10 i6 
 
 Davenport . " Davenport & Rock IslandvRy. ... 25 50 
 
 Davenport . " Davenport Central Ry. Co 7 16 
 
 Clinton ... " State Electric Co 7 g 
 
 Sioux City . " Sioux City SL Ry Co. 18 43 
 
 Sioux City. . " S. C. & Riverside Park Ry 8 11 
 
 Kansas City . Kansas West Side Ry. Co 4 6 
 
 Wichita ... " Wichita Elec. Ry. Co . . . . . . . 23 25 
 
 Ft. Scott . . " Ft. S. Rapid Tran. Ry. Co 6 14 
 
 141 
 
 Miles of 
 
 Location. 
 
 
 Miles < 
 
 Name of Road. Tsac-v 
 
 OP 
 . Cars. 
 
 Topeka . . 
 
 . Kansas 
 
 . 1 opeKa Rapid Trans. & R. R. Co. . 
 
 18 
 
 30 
 
 Kansas City 
 
 (( 
 
 v..onsoiiaatea City and C. P. Ry 
 
 2 
 
 4 
 
 Paducah . 
 
 . Ky. 
 
 raaucan bt. Kailway Co 
 
 8 
 
 19 
 
 Covington . 
 
 (( 
 
 T^o. i^ov. & Cm. St. Ry. Co 
 
 30 
 
 22 
 
 Maysville . 
 
 II 
 
 Maysville bt. Ky. Co 
 
 4 
 
 II 
 
 Lexington 
 
 (( 
 
 rassenger & Belt Ry. . . . 
 
 12 
 
 31 
 
 Louisville 
 
 . Ky. 
 
 central rass. Ry. Co 
 
 22 
 
 35 
 
 Shreveport . 
 
 . La. 
 
 bhieveport Ry. & Land Imp. Co. 
 
 5 
 
 4- 
 
 Bangor 
 
 . Me. 
 
 PiiKli/-> \\7'<->.-I-f. /~*^ 
 
 ruuiic vvorKs Co. . 
 
 8 
 
 II 
 
 Portland . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 1 oriiand K. K. Co. 
 
 3 
 
 7 
 
 Augusta . 
 
 <i - 
 
 Aug. Hallowell & Gardner Ry. 
 
 8 
 
 7 
 
 Baltimore 
 
 . Md. 
 
 iMO. Ave. Ky. Co 
 
 3 
 
 6 
 
 Bay Ridge . 
 
 II 
 
 
 5 
 
 3 
 
 Ciunberland 
 
 II 
 
 ^umoeriand Liec. Ry. Co 
 
 5 
 
 18 
 
 Lansing . . 
 
 . Mich. 
 
 Lansing City Ry. Co 
 
 8 
 
 12 
 
 Detroit . . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 uetroit, Rouge River & D. Ry. . 
 
 2 
 
 I 
 
 Neguanee . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Neguanee & Ishpeming S. Ry. . 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 Grand Rapii 
 
 is " 
 
 Consohdated St Ry. Co 
 
 22 
 
 41 
 
 Adrian . . . 
 
 II 
 
 Adrian City Elec. Belt Ry. . . 
 
 3 
 
 3 
 
 Saginaw . . 
 
 (1 
 
 * 
 
 Saginaw Union St. Ry. Co 
 
 30 
 
 30 
 
 Ironwood 
 
 <i 
 
 • 
 
 Twin City Ry. ... 
 
 3 
 
 3 
 
 Menominee 
 
 m 
 
 Menominee Elec. Ry. & P. Co. . . 
 
 4 
 
 9 
 
 west Bay City " 
 
 West Bay City St. Ry. Co 
 
 8 
 
 22- 
 
 Ann Arbor . 
 
 • 
 
 Ann Arbor St Ry. Co. . . 
 
 5 
 
 7 
 
 Marquette . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Marquette City & Presque Isle R. C. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 5 
 
 Battle Creek 
 
 II 
 
 Battle Creek Elec. Ry. Co 
 
 8 
 
 16. 
 
 Detroit . . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Highland Park Ry. Co. 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 Muskegon . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Muskegon Rv. 
 
 13 
 
 33 
 
 Jackson . . 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Jackson St Ry. Co 
 
 12 
 
 
 Port Huron 
 
 
 
 5 
 
 »3 
 
 Quincy . . . 
 
 . Mass. 
 
 Manet St. Ry. Co. . 
 
 4 
 
 4^ 
 
 Newbury port 
 
 II 
 
 » 
 
 Newburyport & Amesbury H. R. R. 
 
 20 
 
 23 
 
 No. Adams . 
 
 • 
 
 Hoosac Val. Lt. & Ry. Co. .... 
 
 6 
 
 
 New Bedford 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Union St. Ry. Co. 
 
 3 
 
 7 
 12 
 
 * Marlborough 
 
 «4 
 
 • 
 
 Marlborough St. Ry. Co. ..... 
 
 3 
 
 6 
 
 Gloucester . 
 
 . " 
 
 Gloucester Ry. Co. 
 
 9 
 
 28. 
 
 FIttsfield . . 
 
 fi 
 
 Pittsfield Elec. St. Ry. Co 
 
 3 
 
 
 Salem . . 
 
 . Mass. 
 
 f^aumkeag St. Ry. Co [ ] 
 
 37 
 
 4 
 24 
 
 Salem . . . 
 
 . " ] 
 
 Essex Elec. St Ry. Co 
 
 5 
 
 6 
 
 ' Newburyport 
 
 II 
 
 Black Rks. & Salisbury Beach St. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 21 
 
 3 
 
 Lawrence 
 
 II 
 
 Memmack Valley St. Ry. Co. . . . 
 
 18 
 
 16 
 
 Borckton . . 
 
 «i 
 
 East Side St Ry. Co; . 
 
 10 
 
 
 Holyoke . . 
 
 . i 
 
 Holyoke St Ry. Co 
 
 7 
 
 14 
 26. 
 
142 
 
 Miles of 
 
 Location. Name of Road. Track. Cars. 
 
 Revere .... Mass. Boston and Revere Elec. Ry. Co. . 4 5 
 
 Leicester . . . " Worcester, Leicester & Spenser St. 
 
 RyCo 13 16 
 
 West Bay C. . Mich. West Bay City St. Ry. Co 9 22 
 
 West Newton . Mass. Newton St. Ry. Co 5 21 
 
 Plymouth . . ** Plymouth & Kingston St. Ry. Co. . 6 5 
 
 Quincy .... '* Quincy & Boston St. Ry. Co. . . . 9 14 
 
 Springfield . . ** Springfield St. Ry. Co 23 44 
 
 No. Attleboro. *' A. No. A. & Wenthan St. Ry. ... 6 19 
 
 Lynn .... *' Lynn Belt Line St. Ry. Co 10 20 
 
 Helena . . . Mont. Helena Elec. Ry. Co - . 9 17 
 
 Butte .... " Biitte Consolidated Ry. Co 18 29 
 
 Helena ... ** Hele'na Elec. Ry. Co 8 19 
 
 Anaconda . . ** Elec. Ry., Light & Power Co. . . 5 20 
 
 Great Falls . . " Great Falls St. Ry. Co 9 9 
 
 Sault St Marie, Mich. S. S. M. St. Ry. Co 4 5 
 
 Stillwater . . Minn. Stillwater St. Ry. Co 5 6 
 
 St Paul ... " St. P. City Ry. Co . 75 100 
 
 Duluth .... " Motor Line Imp. Co 3 4 
 
 Duluth .... " Ehiluth St Ry 28 41 
 
 Kansas City . Mo. n g 
 
 Helena . . . Mont. Helena Elec. Ry. Co 8 15 
 
 Joplin .... Mo. Joplin E. Ry. & Motor Co. 5 10 
 
 St Joseph . . " Union Ry. Co n 34 
 
 St. Joseph . ^ " Wyatt Park Ry. Co 15 22 
 
 Kansas City . " North East Ry. Co 7 12 
 
 Springfield . . " Metropolitan Elec. Ry. Co 7 50 
 
 Lebanon . . . Mo. Lebanon Light & Watei Co i 
 
 Hannibal . . " Hannibal Ry. Co 2 10 
 
 Kansas City . " Metropolitan St. Ry. Co 12 46 
 
 Sedalia ..." Elec. Ry. Light & Power Co. . . . 8 20 
 
 Fredonia . . . N. Y. Dunkirk & Fredonia R. R. Co. . . 3 8 
 
 Ehnira .... ** Elmira & Horsehead Ry 14 10 
 
 Amsterdam . " Amsterdam St. Ry. Co 4 9 
 
 Hudson ... " Hudson Elec. Ry. Co 2 4 
 
 Utica .... *' Utica Belt Line St Ry. Co 50 
 
 N. Towanda . " Towanda St Ry. Co 3 3 * 
 
 Albany ... " Albany Ry 16 32 
 
 Wat^own . . " Watertown St Ry. Co 3 8 
 
 Watertown . . " Watertown & Brownvaie St. Ry. . . 3 8 
 
 Glen Falls . . *' G. F., Sandy Hill & Ft. Edward . . 8 12 
 
 Auburn ... " Auburn City Ry. Co 27 10 
 
 Charlotte . . *' Grand View Beach Ry 8 14 
 
 Albany ... " Watervleet, Turnpike & R. R. . . . 7 36 
 
 Oswego ..." Oswego St Ry u 15 
 
 Miles op 
 
 IXKATIOM 
 
 
 Namb of Road. 
 
 jniLES 
 
 Tragi 
 
 Cars. 
 
 Saratoga %)g 
 
 T7*% 1_? . 
 
 N. Y. 
 
 Saratoga Elec. Ry. . . 
 
 
 • 2 
 
 riusning . . 
 
 m 9 
 
 Flushing & College Pt. . . 
 
 
 9 
 
 Troy .... 
 
 % i 
 
 Troy & Langinsburg Ry. . . . 
 
 • • 33 
 
 61 
 
 Utica . . . 
 
 at 
 m % 
 
 Utica & Mohawk Ry. ... 
 
 
 14 
 
 Jamestown . 
 
 
 Jamestown St Ry. Co 
 
 20 
 
 
 Seneca Falls 
 
 1 < 
 
 
 
 4 
 
 Bmghamton 
 
 <i 
 
 Binghamton St Ry. Co 
 
 14 
 
 18 
 
 Charlotte . 
 
 
 Rochester Elec. Ry. . 
 
 
 21 
 
 Asheville . 
 
 . N. C. 
 
 Ashville St. Ry. Co 
 
 6 
 
 II 
 
 Raleigh . . 
 
 A —1 '11 
 
 K 
 
 Raleigh St. Ry. Co \ 
 
 5 
 
 8 
 
 Asheville . 
 
 (( 
 
 West Asheville & Sulphur Spgs. . 
 
 4 
 
 2 
 
 Winston . . 
 
 <( 
 
 Winston-Salem Elec. & Ry. Co. 
 
 7 
 
 9 
 
 Charlotte . 
 
 (f 
 
 Charlotte Elec. Ry. 
 
 
 10 
 
 Trenton . . 
 
 . N. J. 
 
 Trenton Pass. Ry. Co 
 
 31 
 
 31 
 
 Passaic . . 
 
 
 Passaic, Garfield & CUfton . . 
 
 . 4 
 
 4 
 
 newarK . . 
 
 XT T 
 
 . N. J. 
 
 Newark Pass. Ry. Co 
 
 ■ 25 
 
 
 Paterson . . 
 
 
 Paterson Ry. Co. . 
 
 
 
 Atlantic City 
 
 
 Camden & Atlantic R. R. Co. 
 
 7 
 
 40 
 
 jersey City . 
 
 
 Jersey City & Bergen Ry. . 
 
 
 5 
 
 v.<Amuen . . 
 
 
 Camden Horse Ry. Co. . 
 
 
 14 
 
 /iSDury rarK 
 
 
 Seashore Elec. Ry. Co 
 
 4 
 
 21 
 
 v^oncorci , . 
 
 . N. H. 
 
 Concord St. Ry. Co 
 
 9 
 
 II 
 
 j-/over . . . 
 
 
 Umon St Ry 
 
 
 15 
 
 riattsmoutn 
 
 XT 1_ 
 
 . Neb. 
 
 Plattsmouth St. Ry. Co 
 
 3 
 
 2 
 
 Lincoln . . 
 
 
 Lincoln City E. Ry. Co 
 
 • 15 
 
 8 
 
 Lincoln . . 
 
 If 
 
 Lincoln St. Ry. Co 
 
 • 37 
 
 85 
 
 IMorlolk . . 
 
 1 f 
 
 Norfolk Elec. St Ry. Co 
 
 2 
 
 
 Kearney . . 
 
 II 
 
 Kearney Elec. Co. . . . 
 
 
 4 
 
 rortland . . 
 
 . Ore. 
 
 Multnomah St. Rv. Co. 
 
 
 33 
 
 Salem . . . 
 
 << 
 
 Capitol City Ry. . 
 
 
 8 
 
 Portland 
 
 M 
 
 iTictropoiiian Ky. l-O. 
 
 
 
 Portland . . 
 
 << 
 
 City & Suburban . . 
 
 
 18 
 
 Portland . . 
 
 (( 
 
 Waverly & Woodstock Ry. 
 
 
 7 
 
 Portland . . 
 
 <( 
 
 Badge Ry. Co. . 
 
 
 15 
 
 Astoria . . 
 
 <t 
 
 Astoria St. Ry. Co 
 
 3 
 
 8 
 
 Newark . . 
 
 . Ohio. 
 
 Newark & Granville St. Ry. . . . 
 
 8 
 
 10 
 
 Dayton . . 
 
 « 
 
 Dayton & Soldiers' Home Ry. . . 
 
 . 6 
 
 4 
 
 Alliance . . 
 
 <c 
 
 Alliance St. Ry. . . 
 
 
 3 
 
 Columbus . 
 
 <( 
 
 Glenwood & Green Lawn Ry. 
 
 4 
 
 12 
 
 Salem . . . 
 
 (( 
 
 Salem Elec. Ry. Co 
 
 3 
 
 6 
 
 Akron . . . 
 
 (f 
 
 Akron St Ry. Co 
 
 
 35 
 
 Columbus . 
 
 << 
 
 Columbus Consul St Ry 
 
 . 36 
 
 88 
 
 Youngstown 
 
 « 
 
 Youngstown St Ry 
 
 
 14 
 
 Lima . . . 
 
 
 Lima St. Ry. Motor & Power Co. . 
 
 4 
 
 14 
 
 Defiance. . . 
 
 <( 
 
 Defiance L. & P. Co 
 
 • 3 
 
 2 
 
144 
 
 MlUBS OP 
 
 Location. Name of Road. Tkacx. Cass. 
 
 Sandusky . 
 
 Ohio 
 
 
 7 
 
 
 
 
 Ashtabula 
 
 (« 
 
 Asht;ih!il;i RaniH Xran C*e\ 
 
 4 
 
 9 
 
 Newark 
 
 (f 
 
 Newark C\f\i Rv Cn 
 
 5 
 
 19 
 
 Canton . . , 
 
 (1 
 
 Canton <^f- Rv Pr» 
 
 o 
 o 
 
 19 
 
 Piqua . . . 
 
 ff 
 
 Pinua C^itv Rv 
 
 4 
 
 
 
 Toledo 
 
 (f 
 
 Toledo Flfr St Rv 
 
 24 
 
 35 
 
 Davton 
 
 << 
 
 White T ine St Rv Co 
 
 17 
 
 25 
 
 Findlav 
 
 << 
 
 Findlav St Rv Cn 
 
 4 
 
 10 
 
 Stetibenville 
 
 (( 
 
 Steubenvillp St Rv Cn 
 
 2 
 
 
 
 Sminefield 
 
 II 
 
 Sorinp'fipld FIpp Rv 
 
 5 
 
 
 
 Livmsool 
 
 II 
 
 
 Q 
 
 
 Q 
 <> 
 
 Mansfield 
 
 II 
 
 Citizens* F1#»r 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 Toledo . . 
 
 fi 
 
 Toledo Con<iAUdat^«1 c:*- i?v 
 
 So 
 
 49 
 
 Hamilton 
 
 II 
 
 
 Q 
 
 .0 
 
 14 
 
 
 
 mau. v^iiy, onen., ouaFavuie .... 
 
 lo 
 
 4 
 
 XJniontown 
 
 II 
 
 Kjiuxjuixfvwu OL. Xvy. 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 
 (1 
 
 
 30 
 
 55 
 
 
 (1 
 
 
 
 
 
 If 
 
 misourgn, Aiiegneny oc Jnancnester 
 
 
 
 
 
 St Rv 
 
 10- 
 
 55 
 
 Pittsburgh . . 
 
 II 
 
 Second Av*» Rv Ce% 
 
 15 
 
 so 
 
 Pittsbure^h 
 
 II 
 
 
 10 
 
 20 
 
 Pittsburgh 
 
 II 
 
 P Knoxville St Plair Rv 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 Pittsbure'h 
 
 11 
 
 Siibiirhan Rar»?d T'ran Cr* 
 
 2 
 
 mm 
 
 7 
 
 Pittsbure'h 
 
 II 
 
 p Federal St Rr Pl#»acanf Vol 
 
 42 
 
 55 
 
 Pittsburgh . . 
 
 II 
 
 Pittsburgh & Birminp'ham 
 
 3 
 
 3*' 
 
 Pottsville . . . 
 
 II 
 
 Schuvler Pier R v Co 
 
 fi 
 
 
 Reading , . . 
 
 l( 
 
 Neversink Mtn Rv Co 
 
 
 
 
 
 Reading . 
 
 II 
 
 E. Reading Ry. Co 
 
 5 
 
 
 Reading . . . 
 
 II 
 
 Reading & S. W. St. Ry 
 
 5 
 
 8 
 
 Connellsville . 
 
 II 
 
 Connellsville, New Haven & Leisen- 
 
 
 
 
 
 ring St Ry 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 New Castle . . 
 
 II 
 
 New Castle Elec. St Ry. Co. . . . 
 
 2 
 
 4 
 
 Westchester . 
 
 11 
 
 West Chester St Ry. Co 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 Du Bois . . . 
 
 II 
 
 Du Bois Trac Pass. Ry. Co 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 Williamsport . 
 
 11 
 
 Williamsport Pass. Ry. Co 
 
 6 
 
 & 
 
 Johnstown . . 
 
 II 
 
 Johnstown Pass. Ry. Co. 
 
 15 
 
 20 
 
 Braddock . . 
 
 II 
 
 Braddock & Turtle Creek Ry. . . . 
 
 3 
 
 3 
 
 Braddock . . 
 
 II 
 
 Braddock Elec. Ry. Co 
 
 4 
 
 4 
 
 Scranton . . . 
 
 II 
 
 
 9 
 
 a 
 
 Lebanon . . i 
 
 II 
 
 Lebanon & Annville St. Ry 
 
 9 
 
 6 
 
 McKeesport 
 
 II 
 
 McKeesport & Reynoldton Ry. . . 
 
 5 
 
 
 Wilkesbarre , 
 
 << 
 
 Wyoming Valley Traction Co. . . . 
 
 
 
 Lancaster . . 
 
 II 
 
 Lane. City & W. End St Ry. ... 
 
 15 
 
 26 
 
 Scranton . . . 
 
 II 
 
 People's Ry. Co 
 
 27 
 
 42 
 
 145 
 
 
 
 
 MiLRS nw 
 
 Location. 
 
 > 
 
 Name of Road. 
 
 Track. 
 
 Cars. 
 
 orccnsDurg 
 
 . ra. 
 
 Greensburg & Henrysville Ry. . 
 
 2 
 
 
 Frio 
 
 (( 
 
 Ene Elec. Motor Co. . . 
 
 
 31 
 
 Shamokin 
 
 ' II 
 
 Shamokin St. Ry. Co. . . 
 
 
 
 vv risningion 
 
 • 
 
 Washmgton Elec. St Ry. Co. . . 
 
 • 3 
 
 A 
 
 /viioona . 
 
 f € 
 
 • 
 
 City Pass. Ry. Co 
 
 6 
 
 ra 
 
 
 • 
 
 Harrisburg Pass. Ry. , . 
 
 
 50 
 
 
 << 
 
 > • 
 
 Penna. Motor Co 
 
 
 6 
 
 Aiientown . 
 
 • 
 
 Allentown & Bethlehem Rapid Tran 
 
 . 15 
 
 22 
 
 iseaver i* aiis 
 
 CI 
 
 • 
 
 B. Falls Traction Co 
 
 
 ■ « 
 
 iNewport . . 
 
 
 Newport St. Ry. Co 
 
 • 4 
 
 23 
 
 rroviaence • 
 
 • 
 
 Union R. R. Co 
 
 7 
 
 12 
 
 
 • lenn. 
 
 Citizens* Rapid Trans. Co. . . 
 
 • 4 
 
 5 
 
 iNasnviiie . 
 
 if 
 
 • 
 
 V T— . 'a. ji wr^\ 
 
 United Elec. Ry. Co 
 
 • 52 
 
 66 
 
 Jnempnis . . 
 
 • 
 
 Citizens' St Ry. Co 
 
 • 30 
 
 40 
 
 mempnis . . 
 
 • 
 
 City & Suburban Ry. ...... 
 
 . 5 
 
 T2 
 
 \.«nananooga 
 
 II 
 
 Chattanooiga & No. Side Ry. . . 
 
 4 
 
 4 
 
 cristol . . . 
 
 1 ^ 
 
 Bristol Belt Line Ry. ... 
 
 • 9 
 
 II 
 
 v^natianooga 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 No. Chattanooga St. Car Co. . . 
 
 3 
 
 3 
 
 KnoxviUe 
 
 II 
 
 • 
 
 Knoxville Elec Ry. Co. . . . 
 
 13 
 
 30 
 
 Chattanooga 
 
 4 1 
 
 Chattanooga Elec. Ry. Co 
 
 38 
 
 33 
 
 Johnson City 
 
 
 J. City & Carnegie St Ry. 
 
 3 
 
 3 
 
 *awiucKei 
 
 T 
 
 . K. I. 
 
 Pawtucket St. Ry 
 
 5 
 
 4 
 
 odii /inionio 
 
 . Tex. 
 
 Rapid Trans. St. Ry. Co. 
 
 5 
 
 3 
 
 oan Antonio 
 
 . lex. 
 
 West End St Car Co. . . 
 
 5 
 
 5 
 
 rort Wortn 
 
 
 Riverside St. Ry. Co 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 L*HrcQO . . 
 
 
 Laredo Imp. Co. . . 
 
 6 
 
 8 
 
 waco . . . 
 
 
 Citizens' Ry. Co 
 
 10 
 
 ip 
 
 waco ... 
 
 
 Waco El. Ry. & Light Co. . . 
 
 6 
 
 5 
 
 /vusun ... 
 
 • 
 
 Austin Rapid Tran. Co 
 
 13 
 
 14 
 
 oiicriiian . , 
 
 << 
 
 • 
 
 College Park Rapid Tran. Co. . 
 
 4 
 
 5 
 
 Dallas . . . 
 
 
 No. Dallas Circuit Rv Co 
 
 3 
 
 5 
 
 Dallas . . . 
 
 <c 
 
 • 
 
 Dallas Con. Pass. Ry. Co 
 
 23 
 
 32 
 
 San Antonio 
 
 l( 
 
 San Antonio St Ry. Co 
 
 30 
 
 55 
 
 Galveston . 
 
 <( 
 
 • 
 
 Galveston City Ry. Co. .... 
 
 38 
 
 34 
 
 San Antonio 
 
 f 1 
 
 • 
 
 Alamo Elec. St Ry. Co 
 
 8 
 
 20 
 
 Houston . . 
 
 (f 
 
 • 
 
 t 
 
 Houston City St Ry. Co 
 
 15 
 
 30 
 
 Dallas . . . 
 
 «( 
 
 • 
 
 Dallas Rapid Tran. Co. . . . 
 
 13 
 
 9 
 
 Fort Worth 
 
 <( 
 
 No. Side Ry. Co 
 
 12 
 
 IS 
 
 Fort Worth 
 
 
 Ft. W. & ArUngton Heights Ry. . . 
 
 6 
 
 7 
 
 Ogden . . . , 
 
 .Utah 
 
 Ogden City St. Ry. Co 
 
 10 
 
 20 
 
 Salt Lake . 
 
 << 
 
 • 
 
 Salt Lake City Ry. . 
 
 28 
 
 5a 
 
 Salt Lake . 
 
 (1 
 
 > 
 
 Salt Lake Rapid Tran. Co. . . 
 
 26 
 
 32 
 
 Richmond . . 
 
 Va. 
 
 Richmond Ry. & Elect Co. 
 
 41 
 
 73 
 
 Richmond-. . 
 
 
 Richmond & Manchester Ry. 
 
 5 
 
 10 
 
 Hampton . , 
 
 « 
 
 1 
 
 Hampton & Old Pt Ry. Co. , . . 
 
 18 
 
 14 
 
146 
 
 y Miles of 
 
 tOCATiON. Name of Road. Tback, Cams 
 
 Danville. . . Va. Danville St. Car Co 2 4 
 
 Lynchburg . . " Rivermont Co . ! ! 3 4 
 
 Anacortes . . Wash. Fldalgo & Anacortas Ry. . . . . . la 4 
 
 Whatcom . , " Bellingham Bay Elec. St. Ry. . ! . 3 7 
 
 Tacoma ... " Tacoma Ry. & Motor Co 23 26 
 
 New Whatcom " Bellingham Elec. St. Ry 4 4 
 
 Tacoma ... " Tacoma & Steilacoom Ry 13 7 
 
 Spokane ... " Arlington Heights Ry. Co 2 i 
 
 Spokane ... •« Ross Park St. Ry. Co 4 7 
 
 Spokane ... " City Park Tran. Co 7 5 
 
 Ft. Townsend, Wash. Pt. Townsend St Ry. Co 4 3 
 
 Seattle. ... " Union Trunk Line . . 13 16 
 
 Seattle .... " Rainier Power & Ry. Co 2 3 
 
 Seattle .... " Green Lake E. Ry. Co 4 a 
 
 Seattle .... " West St. & No. End Ry. Co. . . . 6 14 
 
 Seattle .... " Seattle Con. St. Ry. Co 22 48 
 
 Huntington . W. Va. Huntington E. L. & St Ry. Co. . . 3 14 
 
 Wheeling . . " Citizens' Ry. Co j© 
 
 " • . " Wheeling Ry. Co 12 25 
 
 Martinsburg . " Martinsburg St. Ry. Co 3 3 
 
 Marinette . . Wis. Marinette Gas E. L. & Ry 4 5 
 
 Milwaukee. . " Milwaukee Elec. Ry. Co. 19 22 
 
 Eau Cfaiire . . " Eau Claire St. Ry. L. & P. Co. . . . 9 17 
 
 W. Superior . " Douglass Co. St. Ry 9 22 
 
 Milwaukee.. " West Side Elec. Ry 12 80 
 
 Merrill. ... " Merrill Ry. & Light Co 5 3 
 
 Appleton . . " Appleton Edison Elec, Co 7 8 
 
 Vancouver . . B. C. Vancouver E. Ry. & Light Co. . . . 10 10 
 
 Victoria ... " National Elec. Tramway 15 17 
 
 Windsor. . . " Sandwitdi, Windsor & Amhurstburg 
 
 Ry . Co. . 6 12 
 
 Winnipeg . .Can. Winnipeg St Ry. Co 4 ,0 
 
 Ottawa ..." Ottawa Elec. St Ry. Co 12 16 
 
 '^^^^^ 4o6aj| 7181 
 
 Baltimore Councils have just granted the privilege to con- 
 struct the trolley system on the railways of that city. 
 
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LIBRARIES 
 
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 provided by the library rules or by spec^ arrangement with 
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 DATE BORROWCO 
 
 DATE DUE 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 1 ' ■ — - — — -fk^t^ — 
 
 1 Trolley System. Stenographic 
 Report of Testimony of Experts, etc 
 Philadelphia Traction Company Applii 
 
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 Apply the Trolley Systenf 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 0044268602 
 
 JUN 2 1950