A C THE Unmeasured Importance UNFLUCTUATING National Currency, j OVER WHICH The Government has Entire Control. PETER COOPER. Uarfc: ^ Mercantile Journal Print, No. 850 Pearl Street. ( =W The following pages, republished from The New York Herald, and The New York Mercantile Journal, contain the account of an interview in which my views upon Currency and the National Finances were drawn out at considerable length. The writer, I believe, has fairly represented what I said ; and the measures proposed, seem to me of vast importance to the American people. If a policy like that indicated is adopted, I believe the Country may look for a permanent prosperity hitherto unknown; otherwise, I see nothing before us but a continuance of periodic panics and disaster. AN INTERVIEW WITH MR. PETER COOPER ON THE CURRENCY. [The following, stripped of preliminaries, is the interview on the subject of Currency, as published in The New York Mercantile Journal, to which reference is made upon the preceding page:] Reporter. —Mr. Cooper,what do you think of the late letter of Mr. Reverdy Johnson on the subject of the currency? Mr. Cooper. —1 think that Mr. John¬ son has there given some very whole¬ some truths, and for a man of his in¬ telligence, he has made some remarkable mistakes. He says truly that “the question of currency is now the most important one before the country. It rises, or should rise, far above mere party contests.” He adds, with great propriety, that “ the subject of currency affects the per¬ manent welfare of every citizen—the prosperity of the country, and the re¬ putation of the Government.” He then adds that “it must be obvi¬ ous to every reflecting mind that a currency ought to be as far removed from fluctuations of value as possible.” I believe that Mr. Johnson is unques¬ tionably right in saying that, “with a currency, subject at times to deprecia¬ tion and at times to appreciation, the consequences can but be injurious ; and the extent of injury will be in propor¬ tion to the changes of value.’’ Mr. Johnson then states what, I be¬ lieve to be an entire mistake, that “ the experience of the world has long since demonstrated that gold and silver, alone, constitute a safe currency.” He further says that “ the same ex¬ perience teaches us that no na¬ tion can prosper which adopts a cur¬ rency not convertible on demand into gold and silver.” So far from this last statement being correct, I find that the greatest pros¬ perity known in the history of England took place during the 26 years when the Bank of England was unable to pay specie on demand. I believe the history of the world docs not show a single bank that has operated through a long course of years, promising to pay specie on demand, that has not failed to make good that promise on several occasions. Mr. Johnson “ proposes to consider the whole subject from two points.” First, “ What should a currency be ?” Secondly, “ What control has the Government over it ?” I will answer, as to what a currency should be, in the language of Plato, who says that a “ currency should be that which is most valuable to the State, and of no value to any other country.” As to what control the Government has over money, this will find its best answer in the language of the Consti¬ tution, where it says that “ Congress SHALL HAVE POWER TO LAY AND COLLECT taxes,” —“ to borrow money, to regu¬ late commerce,”—“ to coin money and regulate the value thereof,” a most im¬ portant function, and “ to make all laws which are necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States.” These are neces¬ sary to “establish justice and promote the welfare of the nation.” Rep. But what are your views, Mr. Cooper, on this question of currency in relation to the Government at the present time ? 4 Mr. Cooper. 1 think the currency question has been managed by the Government very much in the in¬ terests of the moneyed classes, and very poorly in the interests of the people. Let us look at some of the facts. In the year i860, a civil war broke out in this country which threatened the integrity and life of this nation. At this time, the expenses of Govern¬ ment increased very largely over its current expenses in time of peace. In fact, it became necessary for Government to borrow money and place a large debt on the shoulders of posterity, in order to transmit unim¬ paired the priceless boon of free institu¬ tions, and a powerful and self-protect¬ ing Republic of States. Now, a nation is not like a private individual, who, if he wants money, must go and bor¬ row it of some one else because he has no resource of his own from which money can come, but only some security which he may give that the money will be returned. A nation has, always, indefinite resources on which to draw, and yet can give no legal security for the payment of its obliga¬ tions. Money itself is a creature of law, and the sovereign prerogative of the State. The Government can make anything a legal tender, and it is only a question of expediency what it shall make. But it can give no legal security for payment of its debts, be¬ cause a sovereign State cannot be sued, nor can you replevin on its property, except by war. To be sure, a nation may borrow as a private individual from another, or from a corporation; but in doing so,it puts itself in a false position, and makes itself subject to the lender, as is any other debtor, to the extent of his debt—except that the creditor has no other resource for collection but to TAKE ENTIRE CONTROL OF THAT GOVERN¬ MENT, as respects its financial policy. Therefore, the people and their inter¬ ests may be shoved aside, for they be¬ come antagonistic to the class who are the creditors, who naturally desire to make their loans at the least cost and the highest interest. But if the people themselves in their solid interests and unity, as represented by a Republican Government, were both the debtors and creditors of all the public debt, then there would be no antagonism between the debtors and creditors. Rep. But do you mean to say, Mr. Cooper,that a Government has no need, and should never borrow from indi¬ viduals and corporations ? Mr. C. I think that a republic like ours, with its forty millions, with its enormous extent of unoccupied land, its wonderful resources, and its enter¬ prising people—equally marvelous for their growth and the increase of their wealth within the century—has no need to borrow from anybody. Why should this people borrow, as a private debtor? If, in their sovereign capacity through the Government and under constitutional and legal forms, they can lay under contribution the whole property, and the services of every man, in protecting the lives and property of all, they certainly can is¬ sue tokens of this undoubted fact, in the shape of legal tenders; and these become, by this act of sovereignty, the money of the country, the measure and the means of exchanges. The people who give them, in their sovereign capa¬ city, must take them in their private capacity, and again receive them in their sovereign capacity as the Government, for taxes. This makes their circulation and their use. But the significance ot these paper “ legal tenders” is that, they are tokens of so much service or ma¬ terial rendered to the Government; and they are also promises to render an equal amount of money, service, or useful material in exchange, to the holder, by the Government. Now the Government keeps this promise in three ways. First, by ac¬ cepting these paper promises, as they may be called, for all taxes and dues to the Government. Secondly, by com¬ pelling every individual to accept them in payment of all debts. And finally, by redeeming them in that which the holder of the currency shall accept as equivalent value, thus distributing burdens and benefits over the whole country. Rep. But this is only compelling in¬ dividuals to accept one token of debt for another. How is the public debt to be paid at last, and how shall we get out of this vortex of promises to pay ? Mr. C. In one sense, there is no need to get out of this vortex. The planets move in a vortex ; the whole of society, and the universe, as far as we see it, move in vortices. This is the grand law of motion and circulation. But circulation also signi¬ fies growth, and ministers to it. Parts of every circulating medium set¬ tle down to something solid, which makes a part of the organism, and keeps up its integrity, and adds to its growth. The circulating medium of money settles down, at last, into some¬ thing solid in interest and property, under the same law of conversion that makes each drop of blood contribute to bone, muscle, or other organ of the body. For instance. New York City is building a great series of piers and wharves, for the accommodation of its present and future commerce and trade. It is demonstrable that these piers and wharves will pay in rents to the city, not only the interest but the principal of all the money invested, in twenty years. The city issues its bonds for this work, which represent a certain amount of interest and principal. But the city, not having the right to issue money, offers its bonds for sale to the banks, or to private individuals, which are henceforth alienated from the pos¬ session of the city, in order to get the money or currency to pay for labor and material in this public work. You might ask, why should not the city keep these bonds in its own safes, and issue the money for current expenses on its own-authority and credit? I answer: Because that would be an act of too great a local sovereignty—though it is no more than is now virtually con¬ ceded to local banks. Let the general Government, then, in its sovereignty, make such a currency, so based and secured, a legal tender. Then, when this work is done, and begins to pay to the city rents, let the income be ap¬ plied to the extinguishment of the bonds, as well as keeping it in repair. This is what I mean by settling down a circulating medium or currency into solid material, and capita), organized into permanent use. This makes a circulating medium always expanding and always contract¬ ing into a solid form. The true design and highest function of currency and credit are to encourage and stimulate in¬ dustry and enterprise in useful forms, and to promote the work by giving the very tools with which it can be done. It represents the material value of the products of labor in process, and not yet complete; for which it provides merely the current wages or support, till the fruit of labor comes to maturity, when that pays for all. Reporter —Mr. Cooper, what is your opinion of the present Banking system ? Mr. Cooper —Financial institutions are very useful, and will always be nec¬ essary to carry on the commerce, trade, and industries of the country. They concentrate capital in financial centers, from which it is again distributed all over the country where it is most want¬ ed. I regard a banking system pro¬ perly confined to the collecting and loaning out of the real capital, in aid of all useful enterprises, as a national bless¬ ing. But, incidentally, banks do a great deal of mischief by doing business, in part, on a bad system and on false assumptions. They often confound the distinction between credit and capital, and do business on credit without capi¬ tal. Credit must be distinguished from capital. Credit cannot be borrowed or lent; it can only be given , or exercised by one mind toward another. Capital is borrowed and lent, for it can be pass¬ ed from hand to hand. The one is very necessary to the other; for capital sup¬ ports credit, and credit sets capital to work in multiplying capital; thus pre¬ venting the latter from waste and loss of it. Credit and capital, therefore, naturally imply each other, and are nec¬ essary to a mutual existence. It is death or disaster to both to separate them, Financial troubles may come 6 from the want of capital, or credit, or both. Rep. But how do you account for our present financial troubles ? Mr. C. Our present financial trou¬ bles, doubtless, began in the want of sufficient capital, at command, to carry on certain great and small enterprises to a successful issues, in which the parties asked more credit than there was capi¬ tal to back it. But when these parties failed, it gave a shock to credit; this paralysed the active use of capital and withdrew it still more from the support of credit, until a “panic” came. For people did not know where or when this trouble would stop. Like a crowd in a public building, the rush for escape, when there is an alarm given bears no proportion to the danger; but it soon substitutes a far worse source ofdestruc- tion and suffering in the “panic.” And, as in this case, the trouble is soon reliev¬ ed by opening wide the doors of egress, so, in financial panics and troubles, the true remedy is expansion of credits and capital, and not contraction. Rep. But what have the banks to do with all this ? Mr. C. I have not, as yet, mention¬ ed the chief source of our financial trou¬ bles and panics ; it is the false system which our financial institutions mix up with what is true in them. They rest much business on a “false bottom,” which may drop out at any time. They lend their credit without sufficient cap¬ ital to back it, and call it “lending cap¬ ital.” The old system of banks which some are now anxious to renew, lent out three and five dollars in paper to one of gold kept for redemption. Their capital was to the credit they assumed as one to three, five or more ; conse¬ quently, when the capital promised by the paper was called for, as, sooner or later, it must be, so much of the credit came to naught, involving loss to the banks, not of their capital but of their sham credits. But these “sham credits” meahwhile had transferred a great deal of real property from the hands to which the property belonged to those who held the temporary credit. This injus¬ tice and wrong comes to the surface, at short intervals, in the shape of “panics” and financial distress. The present sys- of banks, although not doing business on a specie basis, yet introduces a “false bottom” to business in another way; they do a large amount of business on their depositors’ capital. If the “de¬ posits” are called for faster than the bank can return them, the bank fails in its credit, but loses comparatively little. The loss of real capital falls chiefly on the trusting “depositors.” This system goes smoothly, transferring property and facilitating trade till the capital im¬ plied by the credit is needed in substan¬ tial form. The promise can no longer be put off; the payment is required; then the false props are all taken away, and financial ruin is the result; credit given to brains, muscle, industry, and enterprise is one thing, and credit given to actual products and estates is another; but still, credit based on either is a real credit, because brain-work and enter¬ prise are just as real as the material pro¬ ducts to which they give existence. But credit based on mere assumption or supposition of capital, is not property based. It is a bogus credit, that looks like the real thing, but sooner or later fails entirely. If the Government does not require the banks to redeem their notes either in gold or in bonds, or if it allows them to coin their deposits, it gives them the privilege of giving others the use simply of the bank’s credit, far beyond their capital. The banks have done too much of that business already. Rep. What, then, would be your remedy for this false system of banking? Mr. C. The true remedy for all these financial shams and pretences that transfer the property of the real owners to those who are mere financial agents, is to permit the banks to do business only on real money or legal tender, in¬ terconvertible with bonds. This will convert all money into a safety fund, and make it unnecessary for banks to loan their deposits, which they can al¬ ways fund in government securities, and have them again “on call.” But this system will expand the real credits which the banks can give, based all on real capital, and make such credits equal to the wants of a new and expanding country like ours, with institutions that stimulate the industries, the enterprises and the powers of this people, beyond anything that history can yet show of any people. Some people mistake altogether, or put a false construction on transactions called credit, whieh ate not so, strictly. For instance, if you go to a bank or a broker, and give your bonds, stocks or securities in mortgages or any other shape, and borrow a certain amount on the same, that is not strictly giving and receiving credit; it is simply a sale of property, with an if. For if you fail to pay on a certain day, there will be transference of property, but no credit lost. In fact, the man borrows the use of credit in the shape of money, but makes it good on his own property. Therefore the borrower himself gives the only foundation there is to that credit. But if the man is about to im¬ prove a farm, or build a factory, and borrows money to buy material or em¬ ploy labor, which money can only be returned if he succeeds in his enterprise, and produces a piece of property on the strength of that credit, which may re¬ turn all that has been invested in it, that is real credit. That money represents the credit or faith given to an enterprise and a work in progress, which may result in some valuable pro¬ perty ; but if it does not, the credit is lost, and both borrower and credi¬ tor are sufferers by the failure. There is, certainly, a difference be¬ tween borrowing money on the security of a tangible property, eqnivalent to the sum borrowed, and borrowing money on the faith of the powers, in¬ telligence, and capacity for work which will create a piece of property if given the credit and opportunity which the money furnishes. This last is the only credit that the poor need, or can ask. But it is essential in the world, and there ought to be no limit to such credit, except what is sufficient to set every man and woman to some useful work. This makes credit in finance, like faith in religion, “ the evidence of things unseen and the substance of things hoped for.” This process is going on every day, for there can be no growth or development in society without it. But now governments, general and local, mix up their own credit, or seek altogether to sustain the public, on private credit. The sove¬ reign authority of making this circu¬ lating medium of money, which ought to be backed by the highest, the most permanent and reliable ability to pay, is thought safer, by many, when the weight of responsibility is put upon private shoulders or those of corpora¬ tions, than when it is resting upon the broad and secure basis of a nation organized under republican institutions, “ by the people and for the people,” and pledging its wealth and honor as a nation for the redemption of all debts incurred for the public weal. This enslaves a people, through the very machinery of free institutions and republican forms, to the will, the caprice, or the greed ot particular classes or individuals that control money. The government should never be a borrower, except of such labor and material as is necessary to the pub¬ lic service. This it must acknowledge by tokens of its own creation and stamp, and pay at maturity, by means of taxes on property which this very credit has brought into existence, and, as it were, solidified into a permanent source of income, such as a great public work, or any form of fixed cap¬ ital, or, still more, a nation s life and prosperity. What 1 said New York was doing, and might do with re¬ gard to her public works, could be done by the Government on a far grander scale. The Government, during the pro¬ gress of this war of the rebellion, felt obliged to employ more service and material in the struggle for existence with a powerful foe than it could pay from any immediate resources. It felt obliged to borrow this material and service on credit. It issued its bonds; but the government went begging, as New York docs, to private individuals and to corporations to furnish another credit, called money, for the purpose of paying current expenses. The limited amount of this latter credit which was at the service of the government, made j the bonds sell at great discount on their face. Gold was sought for, when there was not enough of this product of labor within reach to represent a tithe of the credit sought by the Government. Now, if the government could issue one form of credit, why go begging for another ? This occurred at last to some of those in authority, and paper money tokens were issued. [See Appendix, Note A.] Under a patriotic impulse and faith in this nation and its resources, some of these were made re¬ ceivable for all dues of the government, and others made convertible into 5.20 bonds at par—at the will of the holder. This made and kept the currency near¬ ly at par with gold, even in the dark days of civil war. But this was found to be far safer than any private or cor¬ poration tokens of indebtedness ; and threatened to supersede all other tokens of indebtedness as a currency. Thus the great power and moneyed advantage which the making of such tokens, and the passing of them into circulation, gave to private corporations would be destroyed. Those who had personal interests involved took the alarm ; they regarded their “ vested rights” in¬ fringed upon, and they had influence enough with the then existing Admin¬ istration and Congress to have that law repealed. They represented that gold would be drained from the coun¬ try, and our purchasing power abroad reduced to nothing. “ How should we get our silks, our wines, and our cigars?” The importers, brokers, and money changers of all kinds, as well as the speculators in gold, would find their occupation gone ! It was in vain to tell these alarmists that gold was one of the many products of industry, and those who needed it must buy it at the market price, which no legislation could control, though it might falsify and interfere with the natural price of gold for a time. That it was of small importance to the peo- ' pie at large, how much gold, measured as a commodity, a legal tender would buy, but of much greater importance how much bread could be got for the same money. If paper is made a legal tender under the same advantages as gold, that is, that it should always re¬ present a real and exchangeable value in interest bearing property, and receiv¬ able for all debts, public and private, the paper would then be on a par with gold as money. No! these parties understood, as they thought, their own interests, and under specious but false pretences and arguments induced Congress to repeal the law that made the currency of the United States re¬ ceivable for all dues to the Govern¬ ment, and also the law making legal tender notes fundable into government securities at par. The repeal of the law permitting holders of legal tenders to convert them at their option into in¬ terest bearing bonds, was the most cruel act of injustice that was ever in¬ flicted on the American people. From thence have come most of the financial troubles and disasters of which so much complaint is made at the present time. Our bonds were rushed abroad, to be exchanged for luxuries and for gold at sixty cents on the dollar, instead of be¬ ing taken by our osvn people at par. M illions of gold goes abroad to pay interest to foreign bondholders, instead of being paid to our own people. A policy of rapid contraction was then inspired into the government; when, (he necessities of the war being over, further issues of bonds were made and currency was withdrawn, and all credits began to contract, as a natural and inevitable consequence. This brought on one of those irrational conditions in human affairs which we call a “ panic,” that brought down credit at once to the zero point, and shrunk the value of all property. IIep. But, Mr. Cooper, do you not think that personal extravagance, rash speculations, and over-production gene¬ rally, have much to do with the pre¬ sent financial embarrassments ? Mi-. C. In a restricted sense, all these causes lie at the basis of much financial embarrassment. But all of them put together, will not account for the fact that there aie over two mil¬ lions of workmen, operatives and em¬ ployees, out of work at this time in this country, or on short allowance of work, who three years ago had ample employment. Speculations ruin a few in financial centers and cause merely a change of ownership in property, and the loss of credit to those engaged in such speculations. Personal extrava¬ gance is chiefly confined to a few rich men, for most people care not or are unable to indulge beyond their means. Over-production and undue importa¬ tions seem to he the most plausible of the reasons offered for the present financial embarrassments; because, when goods accumulate in merchants’ hands, and products multiply in the factories, the mines,and farms, without a corresponding demand and consump¬ tion, the most obvious cause or expla¬ nation is.that there has been too much production and importation. But have these been too much for the demand and consumption previously existing, or subsequently ? The true law of supply, and the stimulus and the reason for production, is demand; this comes first, and the former comes last in the order of nature. There might be a production that overtakes and passes an existing consumption in particular cases; but it is well also to examine, in a general way, whether any cause has paralyzed consumption. Now, it has been seen that the sys¬ tematic and constant contraction of Government credits naturally induced the contraction of all other credits;. this finally brought on a panic that acted like a paralysis on all credit ; this led inevitably to the stoppage of so much active industry and work as to take away the purchasing power of a great many, and to stop a large part of the previously existing consumption and demand. Hence, the over-produc¬ tion (so-called) has been merely an ac¬ cumulation of products, due to under¬ consumption. The proof of this lies in the fact, as I have said, of so many industrious people being thrown out of work, and in the statistics of the country, with regard to its exportations and importations the last few years. In this connection the opinion of Presi¬ dent Grant, as expressed in his annual message of 1873, is important. (See Appendix, Note B.J Rep. But how would you have prevented this sad condition of things from coming on ? It appears to me it arose naturally out of the irredeemable nature of the currency. Gold and silver have always been regarded as the currency and money of the world. A man that is in debt naturally desires to get out of it as soon as he can. Why, then, should not a nation exercise economy or “ contraction ” for the same end ? Mr. C. Because “ contraction ” in finance is not the same thing as econ¬ omy in private life. “ Contraction ” in the finances of a country means the stoppage of a certain amount of the in¬ dustry and exchanges going on in the nation, by reason of the contraction of the credit by which these are sustained. It means factories stopped, and men thrown out of work, and distress of families for want of the means to buy bread. Now, this is all wrong and it arises out of a false financial system, not adapted to the wants of a people whose wants and powers are all the time expanding, by reason of a natural increase in the population, and by our possession of a new country of unlimit¬ ed natural resources, which yet need to be developed by the expansion, and not the contraction of the credit which capital gives to labor. But I grant you there is a contrac¬ tion on the side of debt in the finances of a country which is always desirable. It is in that solidifying process which I have already described, that turns cur¬ rency into fixed capital, as the blood is deposited into bones, flesh and organ¬ ism. The bond, and the currency based on it, must be paid and destroyed as evidence of that debt, as soon as value received for them can be turned into some permanent source of industry and capital, like the stone wharves and 10 piers of the City of New York. But new credits must ever spring up, which are the incipient condition of new im¬ provements, public and private, and all fixed forms of capital. There must al¬ ways be expansion enough in the cur¬ rency to set all the capacity for useful labor in the country to work. This is the only limit to the expansion of credits. Gold and silver ceased long ago in tire history of the world to serve as an adequate representative of all those exchanges which are going on in the civilized world, and which it is the proper function of money to represent. Coin has long called to its assistance *• paper of credit,” both private and public, not merely to represent coin as money, but to represent other real property, and especially the current daily labor of the world’s industrial classes, whose aggregate wages any day could not be paid by all the coin in the world. France uses gold, sil¬ ver and paper, all as legal tenders, and keeps them all busy to satisfy her in¬ dustrial and financial wants. But France could not get along a single day with the coin alone which is with¬ in its borders, or with paper that mere¬ ly represented coin as currency. This being the fact, as every one ought to know who talks on this subject, it is a most preposterous claim that coin alone can serve as legal tender, or paper al¬ ways convertible into coin. You may adopt the legal fiction that all legal tenders should be convertible into coin at the will of the holder, but you can not carry out this in fact; and the failure to carry it out at any given time, for any cause, may produce a “ panic,” with all its disasters. Bep. But what would you have the Government do in reference to its pres¬ ent policy ? Mr. (J. The course is plain. Let the Government issue, not only all the legal tenders but all that passes in the shape of money—all should have the • image and superscription” of the Government, whether it be coin or paper. Let the Government start from a fact, that there has been, and is now, through its instrumentality and neces¬ sities, so many millions of legal ten¬ ders and bank paper or currency set afloat, which, with the Government Bonds now out, represent so much credit resting on the honor and ability of the Government to pay, but furnish¬ ing also the basis for a great amount of credit in the financial system of the country. On this the country has been depending, and with this it has been at work,in all its industries and trade, since the credit paper came into existence. The Government has no right to take away these tools, that have set so much work on foot, from the people. It is not justice. Suppose a man has engaged another in the enterprise of building a house or factory, by promis¬ ing to furnish all the tools, and by giv¬ ing a certain valuation or rent for it when it is finished. Then at a certain stage of the process of erection, the proprietor lakes away a part of the tools necessary to finish the work, and, moreover, diminishes the valuation of both work and material. Would not that be considered a great act of in¬ justice, especially if the builder had no remedy in law against the proprietor? Bow, this is precisely what the Gov¬ ernment has done to the industrial part of this nation, with the additional in¬ justice of compulsion in its dealings with the people who are not the moneyed and the governing class. The Gov¬ ernment, during a time of great ex¬ igency, issued millions of credit paper, on the strength of which the people willingly furnished labor and material to carry on a war of self-preservation against rebellion and disruption. But not only that: the people began to build up the country on the strength of this same credit paper; they set on foot new enterprises, built railroads, factories, and opened new mines and farms on the same credit, and, by the facilities for paying labor and material which this government currency afforded. After the war was over the Govern¬ ment began to contract this currency, and to tax the people, in order to buy its bonds before they were yet due ; which policy contracted credit so much the more ; and it has continued to pur- 11 sue systematically a policy of contrac¬ tion, for the purpose, as alleged, to re¬ sume specie payments on this currency. The people do not want specie; they want the credits already given them not to be withdrawn ; they want their labor and material freely given to save the country, or to build it up, to be valued by the same standard as that by u hicli it was measured when they began to work. The moneyed class ob¬ viously want scarce money and high rates "of interest. This gives them more power and less expense. But the advantage of the whole people, in¬ cluding this very moneyed class, if their interests were rightly understood, is to have credit easy to the industrious, the honest, and the enterprising, and the interest of money more nearly equitable. Rep. What, then, Mr. Cooper, would be your specific remedy for the finan¬ cial troubles which involve the country at present ? What would be the policy you would recommend for the action of Congress ? Mr. C. At present Congress has de¬ vised no better plan for the financial policy of the country than this. Con¬ gress has passed a law that specie pay¬ ments for all currency shall be resumed in 1879, and to provide for this it has authorized the Treasurer of the United States to withdraw currency until the present volume shall shrink from four hundred to three hundred, millions ; and he is further authorized to sell bonds at 4 or per cent, interest, to the amount necessary to get the specie wherewith to resume payments. As the 5 per cent, bonds, outstanding, are only at par. now, I think the prospect is very poor for selling the 4 or 4$ per cent, without ruinous discounts and large addition to the debt of the nation. If the banks also are made to do busi¬ ness and issue their notes only on a specie basis, instead of bonds, as now, it will shrink their currency so as to bring another panic. But if the banks are allowed to give credits secured by government bonds, why should not the government itself do ihe same ? If it will hurt the banks, and cripple and curtail so much their re¬ sources for giving credit, why is not such a policy objectionable as to the credits given by the government? But here is precisely the point of departure of the moneyed class from the people at large. They wish to monopolize not only private, but all public credits. All credits under the sanction and provision of law and the government ought to be public credits, for which the government alone should he held responsible. Such is any paper cur¬ rency now, even if it is not legal tender. Nothing but a legal sanction can pass a bank-note into the circulation of the country. The credit of the bank is in¬ dorsed by the government, in order to he regarded as good. The government, un¬ der the present system, often borrows its own indorsement! But the first point of departure I would have from this whole system of finance is, that everything, gold, silver, or paper, that passes into the cir¬ culation of the country as money should have the government “ image and super¬ scription ” upon it, and should be issued and controlled entirely by the govern¬ ment, so that there shall he no legalized money, directly or indirectly, belonging to private corporations. This is a part of that “special and class legislation” that I have always contended against as the bane of republican institutions. Now, I would have Congress repeal this last act of contraction of the people’s credits in the shape of currency, while it is an expansion of credits to the moneyed class, in the shape of Bonds. I would have Congress pass an act that should make all currency that of the gov¬ ernment alone ; and, of course, I should abolish the present bank currency, giving these institutions the option of doing busi¬ ness only on legal tenders; these they may secure at any time, by simply giving up to the government an equivalent amount of government bonds, whose in¬ terest thereafter stops until bought up again by legal tenders. This will extin¬ guish the interest-hearing debt of the country in part, by one not hearing in¬ terest. Secondly, to start all fairly and justly, I would have Congress pass an act re¬ storing the currency in volume to the condition in which it was at the close of the war, or soon after; when, peace being declared, the whole nation sprang to the arts of peace with the energy of war; when they took these very credits, which the necessities of government had furn¬ ished, as the price of the nation’s life, and began to build up the country still more securely in the wealth and products of “myriad-handed industry;” when their hopes and their faitli were stimulated to new life by this mighty credit poured into the circulation of the country, and all the property of the country and its 12 products were measured and exchanged by the new standard; when none were found idle except the shiftless and those who sought idleness; when no factory stopped its production for want of con¬ sumers, for ail were consumers, because all were producers. I would have all that currency restored to the country, and not withdrawn or contracted by taxing the property of thecountrv to pay it; but allowed to remain, till it had produced its equivalent by the industry and products which it brought into existence. I would have this whole volume of currency made as permanent and invari¬ able a measure of property and exchange as possible, by neither increasing nor diminishing its volume by any arbitrary law; but rather use the agency of gov¬ ernment to keep it at its present stated volume, by issuing it again with one hand for labor, service, and bonds, while it received it with the other as currency. I would have this specific volume of the currency from which we shall now start, henceforth and forever, never diminished at all,and only increased as per capita, very gradually and imperceptibly, as statistics shall show, and a rule of increase founded thereon, as the exchanges and the popu¬ lation of the country increase. And this would be virtually equivalent to making the currency a permanent and unfluctuating standard of values; for it would keep it in the same ratio or relative measure to all the property of the coun¬ try and the increase of its population. I would thus make the stated volume of currency which has been forced upon the country at one time, but which now threatens the most unhappy consequences if it be withdrawn—I would make this one volume an unvarying measure for all time, by giving it an expansion by rule and statistical measure of slow appli¬ cation, and such as would never derange prices or permit fluctuations. I would not increase the bonded debt of the coun¬ try either, except by rule and statistical measure; but I would change its form from the present high rate of interest, and from so large a portion payable in gold to foreigners, into a debt of equitable rate of interest, and payable to our own citizens. Rep. But how can this be done without repudiation and dishonor to the country ? Mr. C. No vested rights can stand in the face of the public welfare; common and statute law recognizes this principle. Hence, all vested rights can be repealed by the law making power that conferred them. Under this principle, private pro¬ perty can be taken for public use, and all corporate rights can be abolished that stand in the way of the public welfare— but never without proper compensation to the parties that may be losers; and of this, the public administration must ap¬ point the means and provide the regu¬ lations. But I propose to change the character of the bonded debt by a volun¬ tary process. First. Whoever needs currency must give up the government bonds for it. The compulsion here is in making every one do business and pay debts in legal- tenders; and the principle for their use exclusively is that the public welfare ad¬ mits of no other money. Secondly. Whoever desires to fund the currency shall receive bonds at a lower rate of interest than that which legitimate business now gives, but which is higher than the average yearly increase of the whole property of the country. This I would fix upon as the interest of the bonds; it is now' about tbree per cent. There is an element of compulsion here; but as the whole country pays the interest on the public debt, it seems but just that only that amount of interest should be paid, which the increase in the public wealth justifies, and no more. Rep. But how will you prevent the too rapid funding of the currency, and keep it at a steady volume, as you propose ? Mr. C. This “too rapid funding” is, I think, a groundless fear, considering the low rate of interest given. Because, in a country like this, so active, so enterprising, and so full of new resources, the oppor¬ tunities and the solicitation for safe in¬ vestments is far greater than in the old country, and would naturally tend to draw money from funding; so that the calls for currency would be equal, if not superior, to the applications for funding. But as the government controls the whole matter.it can keep an “even hand" by allowing neither the funded debt nor the currency to increase beyond a certain ratio to each other. As the currency was received it might be paid out again for service, material, or bonds; as the bouds were received they could be paid out again for service, material, or cur¬ rency. Thus the whole of the circulation between bonds and currency could be kept even. This great bonded debt of the country would really become the refuge and security of the widow and the fatherless, and those poor and ignorant people who cannot invest their little savings in legiti¬ mate business even through others, be¬ cause they cannot trust them, and have no ability to watch the safety or protect the use and return of their money. The public debt would become the poor man’s “savings bank,” instead of being, as now, the exchequer of the rich, and the means of pampering wealth and idleness. Bene¬ volent institutions, churches, and college 13 endowments would seek it, for the same reason, because of its perfect safety; and even the same funded interests of Europe ■would seek investment in this country for security, and will gladly pay gold for all the bonds they could buy, at a little higher interest than their own countries could afford. Rep. But what about the gold all this time, which is now very much mixed up with this question of finance, because it is so universally the legal tender of civilized nations ? Mr. C. I would have it a part of our legal tender still. France makes gold, silver, and paper all legal tenders ; why cannot we ? But if any one wants gold as a commodity , let him buy it as any other commodity, at the market price. Let such exchange currency or any other commodity for gold, as suits their con¬ venience and the state of the market, which no government can control with¬ out tyranny and interference with private rights. That whole subject will take care of itself, and the whole circulation of the world will naturally mingle and inter¬ change with our national circulation, as the outer air mingles and interchanges with the air of the room, if passages are left free. Rep. I understand you, then, Mr. Cooper, that you regard this whole con¬ test about the currency as a conflict be¬ tween the “vested rights” of the whole moneyed class and their interests “but ill understood,” and the rights and inter¬ ests of the whole people; that you regard the whole legislation of Congress on this subject, with little exception, as made in the interests of cla e s, special, and partial legislation, which has been, thus far, the bane of our republican institutions; because, under forms of law it sacrifices the people to classes of special privileges; and 1 understand your present remedy for all the present evils, and all the future that are likely to occur from our system of finance, is, that government alone issue all currency and whatever circulates as money, and make this curreney intercon¬ vertible with bonds, which the govern¬ ment can control, and not with gold, which it cannot control; and further that the government start in the present emergency, from precisely that volume of credits in currency and in bonds, that was set afloat by the irresistible neces¬ sities of the war for the Union; that this volume should be sustained substantially as it was soon after the close of the war, when it rose to its maximum; and be made the measure of all values, and the means of exchanges for all coming time— subject only to the slow increase of volume which statistics shall justify as the increase of population, and its ratio, per capita, to the currency. Mr. C. That is precisely what I pro¬ pose ; and my efforts to bring this sub¬ ject before the public are heartily second¬ ed by many able gentlemen, among whom I may mention Mr. Pliny Freeman, who is continually writing upon the Cur¬ rency. Let me direct your attention to one of his late productions- [See Ap¬ pendix, Note C.] Rep. But it appears to me, Mr. Cooper, you place great powder in the hands of the Government by such a policy. It may lead to enormous speculations and peculations on the part of individuals and officials. Politics will become a trade more than ever, because, of their close connection with finance, commerce, and moneyed institutions. Some adminis¬ tration may ride again and again into power, and overthrow finally all the free institutions of the country with a great flood of currency, which it can manufacture in unlimited quantities by a slight change in the laws that Congress may be induced to enact at any time! Mr. C. It would require almost a treatise on republican government to answer all your objections, and then you could not be answered if you had no faith in free principles and democratic forms, and in the paternal functions of a government instituted “ by the people and for the people.” The slave¬ holders of our country had to learn this lesson at last, and I do not know any vested rights in property so enormous, or so intelligent and w-ell organized resistance as slavery brought to bear upon the free institutions of this country. And yet the slave-holding portion of this country will find itself the greatest gainer by its losses. They lost in the conflict, chiefly through the might of truth and justice, which will be their great gain. We shall have many conflicts, doubtless, between the people on one side, and moneyed, social, or religious classes organized with certain claims, and even vested rights. But never again so great a conflict as the slave-holders brought about. I think the Union and the Re¬ public may be regarded as safe for a long time to come. The people can and will control this government in their own interests in the future, as well as in the past, precisely in the proportion as they can be made conscious of their power and their rights. The forms of the Con¬ stitution and law's are all favorable to them now, but their understanding is darkened by bad counsels. The govern¬ ment is already, and ought to be in a still larger measure, paternal. It should aim constantly to “establish justice,” and organize love and right into law. If we 14 can teach the people justice and truth, they will see to it that the “Republic sutlers no detriment.” There is nothing that I can perceive in the policy I advise that will place any uncontrolable power in the bands of any Administration or Congress. If the law will not protect the people’s rights, let provisions of the Constitution be resorted to. Let us have a “civil service” that will make office under government more of a “profes¬ sional” and a regular occupation than of trade and bargain for place and patron¬ age. Let the United States embody in their constitution, as has the State of New York, that there shall be “no special, partial , or class legislation" and make its laws on the currency, conform to this provision of the Constitution. The question of the currency is of boundless importance to the American people. The stability of our Govern¬ ment will depend on a wise settlement of this momentous interest. The American people will never allow this subject to rest until it is safely moored to that sure foundation of the eternal principles of truth and justice on which our fathers placed the constitution of the these United States. Our fathers meant that the Government should be of the people and for the people. They intended to embody the “wisdom of simplicity” into law, and make it a shield of protection for the unsuspecting masses of the people against those that are resorting to all forms of art to obtain property without labor. The framers of the constitution would never have recom¬ mended one kind of money for the issues of the government, and another for the people. Under the circumstances in which our Government was placed at the close of our late war, they would have taken the advice of their most venerated member, Benjamin Franklin, who said that “paper money, well founded, has great advantages over gold and silver, being light, aud convenient for handling in large sums, and not likely to be reduced by demand for exportation.” “ On the whole,” he says, “ no method has hitherto been found to establish a medium of trade, equal in all its advan¬ tages to bills of credit made a general legal tender.” If I have done, or can do anything to restore the tools of trade to the American people, to enable them to work out the salvation of our country from the present paralyzed condition of trade and com¬ merce, I shall regard it as a treasure that “moth and rust cannot corrupt” — one that will brighten while life and thought and immortality endures. APPENDIX. NOTE A.. It was intended at first to have all the notes issued a full legal tender for all dues public and private. On the 22d of January, 18G2. Mr. El- bridge G. Spaulding, from the Committee of Ways and Means, reported a bill (II.R. 240) to authorize the issue of United States notes and for the redemption or funding thereof, and for the funding of the float¬ ing debt of the United States. The bill reads as follows in regard to these notes paying debts: “ And such notes shall be receivable for all debts and demands due to the United States, and for all salaries, debts and demands owingbv theUnitedStates to individuals, corporations and associations within the United States ; and shall, also, be lawful money and a legal tender in payment of all debts, public and private, within the United states.” This bill also granted to the holder of said notes the privilege of exchanging said notes for United States o.20, six per cent, interest bearing bonds ; also the privilege of the holder of said bonds to exchange them for United States notes at, anytime. (A full text of the above bill can be found in McPherson’s Hand Book of Politics for 1874, on pages 140-7.) A slight amendment was made by Thadeus Stephens, a part of which read as follows: “ And such notes, herein authorized, shall be receivable in payment of all taxes, duties, imports, excises, debts, and de¬ mands of every kind due to the United States, &c. &c., as stated above.” Had the bill passed in this form, the financial history of this country would have been widely different from what, it has been. We should have had no deprecia¬ tion of the greenbacks, and the cost of the war would have been hundreds of mil¬ lions less than it was. But those who thought their interests lay in an opposite direction took the alarm and found means to secure an amendment requiring the customs’ dues to be paid in gold in order that the Government might be provided with means to pay gold interest on its bonds. This oiscredited the Government money before it was issued. NOTE B. After recapitualting the vast amount of contraction that had been made in the currency up to December, 1873, President Grant said : “ To increase our exports sufficient cur¬ rency is required to keep all the industries of the country employed. “Elasticity to our circulating medium, therefore, and just enough of it to transact the legitimate business of the country, and 15 to keep all industries employed, is what is boos' desired. ‘•The experience of the present panic has proven that the currency of the country, based as it is upon the credit of the country, is the best that has ever been devised. “In view of the great actual contraction that has taken place iu the currency, and the comparative contraction continuously going on, due to the increase of population, iucrease of mauufactoiies, and all industries. I do not believe there is too much of it now for the dullest period of the year. “During the last four years the currency has been contracted directly by the with¬ drawal of 3 percent, cerii.lcates, compound interest notes ana 7-30 bonds outstanding, on the4th of March, 1869, all of which took the place of leval tenders in the bank reserves to the extent of $63,000,000. " During the same period there has been a much larger comparative contraction of the currency. The population of the country has largely increased. More than 25.000 miles of railroad have b* en built, requiring the active use of capital to operate them. Millions of acres of land have been opened to cultivation, requiring capital to move the products. Manufactories have multiplied beyond all precedent in the same period of rime, requiring capital weekly for the pay¬ ment of wages and for the pu'cha^e of mate¬ rial; and probably the largrst of all compara¬ tive contraction arises from the organizing ot free labor in the South. Now every laborer there receives his wages, and for want of savings banks the greater part of such wages is carried in th* pocket or hoarded until re¬ quired for us“.” On the 1st of July, 18G6, the public debt reached itshighest point, standing at.$2,783,425,879 and on Nov. I, 1875. 2,118.397.212 showing a reduction, in 9.L-3 years, of.. $665,028,667 Or, an average of 71i million dollars per annum. It is computed that on November 1, 1875, two-thirds, or $1,412,000,000 of our debt were held in Europe, leaving only one-third, or $706,000,000, held by the United States. The bulk of said debt is in 5-20 bonds (6 p.c. gold, or 7 p c. cur¬ rency). involving the annual outflow of $34,000,000 for interest. Manifestly, we are paying more than double what Eng¬ land pays for her enormous debt, which is funded at 3 per cent., and held at home. Were our debt funded at 3-65 per cent, per annum, and drought home, $17,000,000 would be annually saved in interest, whilst the other S17.000,000, being in circulation, would be invaluable in banishing hard times. NOTE C. FLINT FREEMAN’S STATEMENT OF THE FINANCIAL PROBLEM. It is claimed that the Government pa¬ per money, made a full legal tender for all monetary purposes, convertible into in¬ terest-hearing bonds at the option of the holder, said bonds being reconvertible in¬ to said legal tender money, with accrued inierest, at flie same option, would he a perfect solution of the financial question. That when established, gold and said le¬ gal tender money would be on a par, nnd thenceforth that both inflation and con¬ traction would be practically impossibili¬ ties. It is also claimed that the above propositions have all been demonstrated and actually put in practice. 1st, That gold and legal tender paper would be on a par, was demonstrated by the fact that what were termed “Demand Notes”—of which sixty millions were is¬ sued, and receivable tor duties on im¬ ports—continued on a par with gold until all were absorbed at the Custom House. That fact, it is claimed, proves conclu¬ sively that if Greenbacks bad been re¬ ceived for duties on imports, being thus made a full legal tender, gold could never have risen above par. 2nd. That a free issue of paper money cannot produce inflation when convertible into bonds bearing interest, was demon¬ strated by the fact that, when greenbacks were first issued and convertible at the option of the holder into 5.20 bonds bear¬ ing 6 per cent, interest, during tbe six¬ teen months the convertible law existed there was neither inflation nor expansion, but a steady uniformity in prices and val ues never before known. This, it is claimed, was a demonstration and proof positive that when paper money is con¬ vertible into bonds inflation is impossible. For, should said paper money be issued in excess of tbe wants of business, such excess would reduce the ruling rates of interest to the Government standard, when all excess would return to the Treasury for its bonds and restore the equilibrium. 3rd. It is claimed that when Govern¬ ment issues are received for duties on im¬ ports and made a full legal tender and in¬ terconvertible with bonds bearing inter¬ est, gold will be on a par with said issue ; provided ihe same act requires the Secre¬ tary of the Treasury to dispose of bonds in Europe—not in America—to provide coin to defray the interest on the bonds now in Europe, and also on the bonds re¬ maining here. Then, as there will be no further demand for coin in this country, it will be on the market without buyers, for merchants will be no longer required to buy it to pay duties at ihe Custom 16 House; Government will not be com¬ pelled to buy at home to pay interest on its bonds ; and as our mines produce more bullion than can be required for the bal¬ ance of trade, there will be no further de¬ mand for it ; hence, it must fall to par. I would most respectfully but emphat¬ ically assert, that the day in which said American System of Finance becomes a law, gold and legal tender money will be on a par. And I would as emphatically assert, that it is not within the power of Congress, by any materially different act of legislation, to produce the same result and restore the much desired specie basis until our exports exceed our imports in an amount sufficient to cause a natural return flow of specie to our shores. Should the act establishing the “Amer¬ ican System of Finance” authorize the banks to hold convertible bonds as their legal reserves, and also to deposit such bonds for national bank currency, and permit said currency also to be converti¬ ble into Government bonds, both banks and the public would be greatly benefit- ted, inasmuch as confidence would be re¬ stored, business would revive, the credit of dealers with the banks would improve, and their risks also improve in a like ra¬ tio, causing an immense increase of busi¬ ness, with a corresponding increase of dividends to stockholders, and this to the entire satisfaction of their dealers and the public generally. Then the existing pre¬ judice against banks would cease, and they be recognized and acknowledged as indispensable aids to civilization, and be sustained by popular favor. If any continue to doubt, after our past experience, that legal tender paper, when received for duties on imports, will keep on a par with coin, they need only to look across the Atlantic to the French Government for confirmation. When the German war commenced it authorized the Bank of France to double its issue, and made said issue a legal tender for all monetary purposes. According to statis¬ tics before me. at the commencement of hostilities in 1870 the Bank circulation was about $250,000,000, when an addition of an equal amount was authorized, and all made a full legal tender for all purpos¬ es ; and when hostilities ceased, in 1871, it amounted to $420,000,000, at which time gold bore a premium of 2'£ per cent, when, an additional amount being au¬ thorized, it soon fell to par ; and in Oc- j tober, 1873, when it amounted to $612, 000,000—the highest amount ever reach¬ ed—it remained at par and has continued so ever since. The query arises : Why did it continue at par after the issue of so large an amount ? Ans. Because it was made a legal tender for duties on imports and for all other monetary purposes whatever. Then, why was there a premium on gold at any lime ? For the reason that, in addition to the amount required for the Indemnity, the requirements to to recuperate and make good the devasta¬ tion of w r ar caused an excess of imports above exports, which excess continued until the increased flow of currency, by stimulating the manufacturing mechan¬ ical and agricultural industries,created au excess of exports and turned the balance of trade in favor of France. It seems clear that the volume of cur¬ rency, by being made a full legal tender, revived and stimulated the productive industries of the French peot le to sucli an extent that their exportable products soon exceeded their impoits, and turned the balance of trade (which, when the tvar ceased, was largely against them), in their favor to such an extent as to render them financially independent, and all other nations became their tributaries. And who can truthfully say, should America pursue the same course, that the same results would not follow ? This, it is claimed, is proof which none can deny ; but, on being convinced of the fact, all must confess that, had the act which passed the House of Ilcpresentives making greenbacks a full legal tender without any exception, and convertible into 6 per cent, bonds, become a law, coin could never have risen above. par from the day in which it became a law to the present time. And who can say that in consequence of the paper of the Bank of France being a full legal tender the French people are not in a more pros¬ perous condition at this time than at any time in their long and eventful history '! With such wonderful prosperity of the people of France prominently in view, and the full knowledge of its being the re¬ sult of so simple a cause as the making of its paper money a full legal tender, will not the American Government follow so glorious an example, and raise the Amer¬ ican people from their present state of paralysis, degradation, aud humiliation ?