REPORT 
 
 
 
 OF THE 
 
 
 
 SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE SENATE, 
 
 7 
 
 
 
 TO WHICH WAS REFERRED 
 
 
 
 THE ASSEMBLY BILL i BELATIOX TO THE ESTABLISHING 
 
 
 
 OF A 
 
 
 
 PUBLIC PARK 
 
 
 
 IN THE 
 
 
 
 CITY OF XEW YORK, 
 
 
 
 # 
 
 1853. 
 
 
 
 Transmitted to the Legislature, June 21, 1853. 
 
 
 
 ALBANY: 
 
 
 
 C. VAN BENTHUYSEN, PRINTER TO THE LEGISLATURE, 
 
 
 
 No. 407 Broadway. 
 
 
 
 1853. 
 
 
 
iEx ICtbrtfi 
 
 SEYMOUR DURST 
 
 'When you leave, please leave this hook 
 
 "Because it has heen said 
 "Ever'thing comes t' him who waits 
 
 Except a loaned hook." 
 
 i 
 
 Avery Architfxtural and Fine Arts Lu^rary 
 Gift of Sfymour B. Durst Oi.n York Library 
 
No. 82. 
 
 m SENATE, JUNE 21, 1853, 
 
 REPORT 
 
 Of the select committee on the bill relative to a Public Park 
 
 in New-York, 
 
 The select committee, (the Senator from the first district 
 dissenting,) to which was referred, with power to report comr 
 plete, the bill from the Assembly, entitled "An act relative to 
 the purchase, possession and laying out of certain lands for 
 a public park in the 19th ward of the city of New- York, and 
 the powers and duties of the mayor, aldermen and commonalty 
 relative thereto," 
 
 REPORT: 
 
 That from the numerous petitions subpoiitted to them by the 
 Senate, it is apparent that the residents of New York city are 
 very generally agreed as to the necessity of some large public 
 park in the upper wards. Since the bill which passed the As- 
 sembly on the 2d April last was referred to your committee up 
 to the date of this report, about 10,00(i petitioners, over their own 
 proper signatures, have memorialized the Legislature, praying 
 that the lands lying between 66th and 75th streets, and Third avenue 
 and the East river, popularly known as Jones' Wood, be laid out as 
 a public park. During the same time nearly nine thousand remon- 
 strants have prayed that Jones Wood be not taken for such purpose 
 because it is not sufhciently central. Of these names, however, 
 
 [Senate No. 82.J 1 [u.n. &50UpJ 
 
2 [Senate 
 
 over 1100 are in the same hand-writing and without address, and 
 are, therefore doubtful. Fifty-three of these remonstrants have, 
 at the same time, prayed for the purchase of land lying between 
 60th and 105th-streets, 5th and 8th avetiues. 
 
 Twelve other remonstrants against Jones' Wood Park, pray for 
 the purchase of a central plot, "from about 67th to 100th streets.'^ 
 
 The corporation of New- York have also presented resolutions, 
 setting forth that the proposed central park has met the general 
 approbation of their citizens, that Jones' Wood Park has been 
 urged by "certain interested parties," without any action of the 
 common council in favor of the same, and that application be 
 made to the Legislature at its present session for a law authoriz- 
 ing the opening of a park, the boundaries of which shall be south- 
 erly by 63d-street, northerly by lOOth-street, easterly by the 5th 
 avenue, and westerly by 8th avenue. 
 
 It will be sufficient to call the attention of the Senate to the 
 fact that the common council of New-York, already infamous for 
 its corruption and venality in railroads, Euss pavements and con- 
 tracts, has been repudiated by its constituency at a recent elec- 
 tion by a vote of ten to one; 33,000 to 3,000. Any recommenda- 
 tion from such a source may fairly be suspected, and your com- 
 mittee do not attach to it the slightest importance. 
 
 Of the nine thousand remonstrants, 673 regard the present time 
 as unpropitious for such a matter of mere luxury, and do not ask for 
 any park. They say that Jones' Wood is more valuable than 
 land in the centre of the Island. 359 candidly rest their objec- 
 tions upon the fact that Jones' Wood is too remote from their pro- 
 perty. 
 
 Another remonstrance emphatically declaring that there is not 
 one good reason for making a park at the place in question, signed 
 by a single remonstrant, is remarkable from the fact that the 
 signer was the counsel for the owners of the land when the law 
 of 1851 laying out Jones' Park was decided to be invalid by Judge 
 Edmonds. 
 
No. 82.] 3 
 
 A number of petitions, headed in English and in German, for 
 a central park," were also referred to 3 our committee on the 15tli 
 June. IMany pages of the signatures are in the same hand writ- 
 ing, and without the residences of the pretended signers, not less 
 than two hundred and fifteen names having been counted in one pe- 
 tition which could not have been genuine. 
 
 In another appear five hundred and twenty-nine such names. A 
 third petition contains three hundred and seventy-four. Another 
 petition, in English, signed by 679 residents of New- York, prays 
 for a central park in preference to Jones' Woods. 
 
 A remonstrance against Jones' Wood Park, is signed by several 
 prominent citizens of New-York, who pray that a central park 
 raay be laid out, and that the expense of it be borne as a common 
 charge. r 
 
 Another memorial asks for the central park, provided its cost 
 shall not exceed fifteen hundred thousand dollars. 
 
 The petitioners for either park equal those for the other so 
 nearly, that your committee can only report with certainty that 
 over 18,000 citizens of New-York pray for some large public park. 
 
 Your co&mittee, thoroughly impressed with the necessity of 
 public grounds to the health and well being of a metropolis, 
 would recommend the establishment of both the Jones and the 
 Central Park, if bills for both were before them. Upon the first 
 of these measures they are now called upon to decide, and they 
 have not neglected to avail themselves of such information as was 
 within their reach. 
 
 They have examined witnesses as to the capability of the Jones 
 Wood Park for park purposes ; as to the value of the native fjr- 
 est trees, when opened up to the light by paths and road- ways ; 
 as to the value of the land compared with that proposed to be 
 taken for a central park ; as to the advantage of a riverfront, and 
 also upon the topography of the central site, and its adaptation 
 10 public uses. 
 
4 [Senate 
 
 Professor Torrey^ the well known State botanist and geologist, 
 testified that he had been a student of botany from a boy ; that 
 he had known Jones' Woods all his life, and visited them often 
 while pursuing his researches ; that the ground was 2^ or 3 
 miles from Union Square; that the surface was varied, undulat- 
 ing, having a rocky shore, with a great depth of water. Dr. Tor- 
 rey said that a large part of the ground is well wooded, and knew 
 no reason why trees should suffer by opening paths. It has not 
 been the case in Greenwood He did not apprehend any danger 
 to the trees from thinning out, and described them as tulip trees, 
 oak, birch, hickories, &c. He deems the water front a great ad- 
 vantage on account of the view and air, and said that he prefers 
 the east side of the island to the centre for a park, chiefly on ac- 
 count of the water and the noble trees. Dr. Torrey thinks a park 
 would be of great advantage to the public health, and says that 
 the high and central parts of the island are more sickly than the 
 east side, and the draining of Jones' Wood is better than of the 
 central lands. Dr. Torrey described the parks in London, which 
 he said were frequented by all classes ; spoke of the deep 
 interest he felt in this measure as a sanitary one, because Jones' 
 Wood could be at once converted into public grounds without 
 waiting for planted trees to grow. 
 
 Wm. Currj a gardener, of 35 years experience in and about 
 New-York, wlio had assisted in laying out Greenwood, Trinity 
 and ot.her cemeteries. Union, Washington and Madison squares, 
 and Stuyvesant squares, testified that all the city grounds were 
 originally quite bare. He had found no difficulty however in 
 thinning out trees in cemeteries. Greenwood had not suffered, 
 he knew Jones' Woods well ; described its surface as undulating, 
 the trees as large and finer than at Greenwood. Nature, he said 
 has made it a park, and if purchased, one year would render it 
 available to the public. A landscape gardener, he said would 
 prefer ground covered with trees to produce effect, on account of 
 time saved. Mr. Curr decidedly preferred Jones' Woods to the 
 Central park. 
 
 Mr. Riifus Prime stated that he was well acquainted with Jones' 
 wood, having lived in that vicinity all his life. He said that 
 
No. 82.] 5 
 
 land there was less valuable than in the middle of the island, as 
 he knew from sales during the last G months ; the value of lots 
 being $500 each ; he much preferred Jones' wood, which in his 
 judgment, combines all the requisites for a park ; he know of no 
 purchases or speculations made with reference to Jones' wood, 
 was not himself interested ; thinks a park absolutelynece ssary in 
 New-York 3 and that Jones' wood will give prompt enjoyment 
 in return for the outlay. 
 
 Mr. Thomas Hogg, being examined, stated that he had been 
 well acquainted with Jones' wood for many years, and that it can 
 be made a park of at a cheaper rate than any other part of the 
 island ; the trees are well grown, the land is good, and there is a 
 fine water front ; he had practiced horticulture for 50 years in 
 Great Britain and this country, was certain that drives if laid 
 out would not cause the death of the trees j has only to refer to 
 Greenwood, and Dr. Hosack's place at Hyde Park ; he thought 
 it would require a very large sum to render the central park 
 available ; there is a great deal of swamp; for the present gene- 
 ration Jones' Wood is of most advantage. 
 
 Mr. Benjamin Munn, a landscape gardner, had examined both 
 sites and preferred the central one ; thinks thinning the trees in 
 Jones wood might be dangerous, and would prefer the central 
 park for the general health. He had never visited Greenw^ood, 
 nor had any experience in thinning out natural woods in this 
 country, nor had he laid out any parks in Europe or in America. 
 
 Mr. James Hogg, a nurseryman of 20 years' experience, stated 
 that he was well acquainted wath Jones' wood, and described the 
 trees, as oak, tulip tree, liquid amber, white birch, &c. He was fa- 
 miliar with the central park site also : prefer Jones' wood because 
 already covered with trees and available. He instanced Mr. 
 Wm. Kelly's, Dr. Hosack's and Greenwood, as places where 
 the natural forest trees thinned out, had thriven well. Mr. 
 Hogg considered a park a matter of necessity and quoted the 
 city inspector's report to show that 62 per cent of all deaths, 
 occur under ten vears of age. He stated that if both sites were 
 bare of trees, the central would cost most, that the central is ad- 
 mitted to be unhealthy, that the cost of laying out Jones' wood, 
 
6 
 
 I Senate 
 
 would be about $200 an acre, without fence. As to the comparative 
 cost of the two sites, he stated that the assessed value of Jones' 
 wood for the present year was $539,600, or an average per block 
 of $14,988, and that the average 5 blockrj-from 60th to 67th streets, 
 5th to 8th avenues, was $31,720. Mr, Hogg produced a memo- 
 randum of a corporation sale in December, 1852, at which the 
 average per block, for land from 72d to 78th streets, 5th and 7th 
 avenues ; the site of the proposed central park, was $67,876, and 
 also stated that 22 ]ots of ground on 2d and 3d avenues, and 73d 
 streets, the most valuable part of Jones' woods, sold for an average 
 per lot of $575, or per block, $36,700. 
 
 Full notes of the testimony taken, accompany this repi rt, to 
 which appendix your committee would refer for more minute de- 
 tails. ^ 
 
 Mr. Samuel J. Gustin, a gardener and nurseryman of N'ew- Jer- 
 sey, appeared before the chairman of the select committee and 
 stated that his experience taught him to prefer planted groves to 
 natural forest, for ornamental purposes. He instanced two gen- 
 tlemen's seats in New- Jersey, one of wliich retained the original 
 trees, the other had been planted within 30 years ; the latter was 
 now the most thrifty. Mr. Gustin thinks the central park prefer- 
 able to the other because it will afford more scope for the garden- 
 er's art, for skilful and extensive planting and artistic effect, 
 where every thing is to be created by the landscape gardener. 
 
 After carefully weighing the subject referred to them, your 
 committee were disposed to recommend to the Senate the bill as 
 it came from the Assembly without amendment, as proper to be- 
 come a law. They find that an act was passed in July, 1851, 
 which the present one is designed merely to revive and amend ; 
 that the land it proposes to convert to the public use is eminently 
 adapted to all the wants of health and pleasure; that it will cost 
 only half as much per acre, as the central site ; that its noble for- 
 est trees will ajffbrd immediate enjoyment to the pent up citizens 
 of New-York, an enjoyment which they have prayed for, and are 
 willing to pay for. The committee by no means desire to inter- 
 pose a single objection to a larger and more central park, wliich 
 ought to be established at an early day, and which they heartily 
 
No. 8^1 
 
 7 
 
 recommend as a provision for tlie future. They think, however, 
 that the present has some claims, and that the panting and 
 crowded families of the less wealthy, whose children fill the bills 
 of mortality, are entitled to ask, what has posterity done for us? 
 Why should they be taxed now to plant groves, which seventy 
 years hence may shelter those who come after them, when health 
 and pure air, wafted from the breezy river, through ample shades, 
 are within their present grasp? 
 
 In the words of Mr. William Curr, " the chief advantage of 
 Jones' wood is, that the trees are already planted, and its being 
 available to the present generation at a small expense." 
 
 So earnest is th€ opposition to this measure on the part of some 
 of the owners of the land to be taken, that your committee would 
 hesitate to urge it, from considerations of deference to those who 
 see no such public necessity in a park, as would reconcile them 
 to the loss of their land if taken for a street, a railroad or reser- 
 voir ; when to this is added a weight of petition in favor of an- 
 other locality as strong as that which prays for Jones' Wood, 
 it seems, perhaps, wisest to refer to the new city government of 
 New- York the choice of sites. 
 
 Your committee^ impressed with the great deficiency of New- 
 York in public grounds, would recommend the purchase of both, 
 or, perhaps, the securing of one, without delay, and the other, at 
 the option of the city. 
 
 From a recent work on the parks, gardens, &:c., of London and 
 its suburbs, by Edward Kemp, 1851, it appears that the well 
 known St. James park, contains but 87 acres, and the Green park 
 adjoining, and separated only by a street, (the Mall,) is an open 
 area of 56 acres. Both together they cover but 143 acres, less 
 than Jones' wood, which occupies 156 acres. 
 
 " JiOndon," says Kemp, " like most other large and populous 
 towns, has gradually spread itself so completely over the open 
 spaces which formerly surrounded it, that it is now, as respects 
 the number of its inhabitants, by no means liberally supplied 
 with breathing places, or the means of open air recreation. And 
 this encroachment on its suburbs has been elfected with such 
 
8 [Senate 
 
 comparative slowness, and so silently, tliat it is only by the oc- 
 currence of modern epidemics, producing that attention to sanita- 
 ry njiitters v>hich forms such a prominent feature of the present 
 age, that tlie necessity for good public parks has been d^ly re- 
 cognized, and the insufficiency of those already existing, properly 
 felt. Attention having, however, been awakened to the matter^ 
 the evil has already been la part remedied, and further provision; 
 for meeting the public wants is in process of being made. There 
 are also many open commons in the vicinity of the metropolis 
 which; as Ave shall afterwards show, answer all the purposes of 
 parks." 
 
 Let us see how many acres of parks and commons are now 
 open to the Londoner. Lying within London itself, there are 
 
 St. James park, 87 acres, 
 
 Green park,. „. 56 " 
 
 Hyde park, 349 " 
 
 Regents,.. 450 « 
 
 Greenwich, 200 <^ 
 
 Victoria, , 300 
 
 1,412 " 
 
 and at Lambeth,on the other side of the Thames, Battersea parky 
 200 acres. No mention is made of the " squares" which resemble 
 the Washington or Union squares of New- York, and are deemed 
 too small for notice. Then ten miles from London, are Rich- 
 mond Hill and park, 2,25iJ acres, Windsor park, divided into little 
 park, 500 acres, Great Park, 1,800=2,300 acre? ; and wiihin one 
 hour's ride by railroad. Close by the city, and stretching, says 
 Kemp, in a kind of chain, n me of them being more than a mile 
 apart, beginning with Kensington com men, a famous cricket ground 
 quite in London^ are Ciapham common, W^andsworth common, 
 Tooting common, Streatham common, Mitcham common, Wimble- 
 don common, alone containing about 1,000 acres, Pultney heath, 
 Barnes' common, Hempstead Heath — comprising among them all 
 several thousands of acres. Then there are many public gardens^ 
 w^here,as in Kensington gardens, beneath one immense and almost 
 continuous mass of shade, the public may freely enjoy the most 
 luxurious summer rambles. They are admitted to 
 
No. 82.] 
 
 9 
 
 Kensington gardens which at present cover nearly 300 acres. 
 
 Royal Botanic gardens, Kew, 75 acres. 
 
 Kew pleasure grounds, 130 acres. 
 
 Horticultural Society's garden, Chiswick. 
 
 Royal Botanic gardens, Regents' Park, 18 acres. 
 
 Chelsea Botanic gardens. 
 
 Temple gardens, London. 
 
 Hampton Court gardens. 
 
 Beulah Spa, Norwood, 7 miles from London. 
 
 Not including the numerous Commons, more than seven thou- 
 sand acres of park and garden are open to the London public. 
 The commons offer not less than four or five thousand acres mdre 
 to the unrestricted use and abuse, if it be possible, of the towna 
 people. How does this ample provision of breathing places, for 
 a population of 2,300,000, compare with New-York ? London 
 gives to every 100,000 five hundred acres of public pleasure 
 ground. New- York, with over 600,000 inhabitants, has now 
 hardly 100 acres, reckoning Battery, City-Hall Park, all the squares 
 and Mt. Morris; to eke out the aggregate — sixteen acres to the 
 hundred thousand of population. 
 
 By a sad^want of forethought, akin to that simplicity which 
 constructed the rear of the City Hall towards Chamber street, of 
 brown stone, because that side being towards the country where 
 it would never be seen, white marble would have been wasted, 
 the noble Harlem commons have been sold, block after block, 
 until now hardly a fraction remains. The rivers, it was supposed, 
 were lungs enough. The ferry boats would carry people to 
 the Elysian Fields, to the waste, unoccupied lands on the heights 
 of Brooklyn, or possibly they might for all ages find solitude to 
 ramble unchecked by the vicinity of dwellings over the hills of 
 Staten Island. The tide of population has^ however, risen ovcj. 
 all the- shores around the American metropolis. Our health seek- 
 ing citizen is repelled by red bricks and garden palings at Hobo- 
 ken a:id Jersey city, at Quarantine, at Stapleton, or at New 
 Brighton, w'.iUe Brooklyn (herself a Liverpool), has no vacant 
 land for the recreation of her own peojde. We must therefore 
 give now to New- York a great park. Her growth, her wealth, 
 
10 
 
 [Senate 
 
 her fature demand it, and the present will probably be the last 
 opportunity to give what she demands. 
 
 The right of eminent domain, it has been held, is not a pow- 
 er to be delegated. Such however has npt been the doctrine of the 
 State of New-York. The general railroad law for instance, dele- 
 gates this sovereignty to any association who may form under its 
 provisions, and permits persons not designated, to take lands not 
 named or described. Nor is the pub ic necessity made a condi- 
 tion, for as in the case of the Mohawk valley R. R. a line may be 
 surveyed and recorded, and the land of the private owner seized 
 upon, because the profits of a company may make it their interest 
 to change their route for the convenience of a part of their business. 
 
 Your committee therefore feel that they are advising no new or 
 hazardous exercise of sovereignty on the part of the State, in re- 
 commending, should the Senate not pass the Assembly bill esta- 
 blishing Jones' Wood as a park, the conferring upon the city cor- 
 poration of New- York, to be elected at the next election in No- 
 vember next, full power to determine by commissioners, what 
 lands they shall take, and by another set of commissioners, to 
 value and pay for the lands so chosen, for a public park. The 
 measure sent up by the Assembly is not a new one. An act simi- 
 lar to this bill, became a law in July 1851, but on account of 
 some constitutional objections Judge Edmonds declined to ap- 
 point commissioners of award and assessment to carry it into ef- 
 fect. Good lawyers have held opposite opinions, and it was 
 apparently with a view to give vitality to an existing statute, 
 that the Assembly have passed the present bill. 
 
 ^Willing to leave to those most nearly interested, the choice be- 
 tween the conflictin o- sites for public parks in the city of New- 
 York, which have been brought before the Legislature, the com- 
 mittee beg leave to submit some amendments, with which, in 
 discharge of the duty imposed upon them by the Senate, they 
 report the bill complete and recommend its passage. 
 Mhany, June 21, 1853. 
 
 JAMES W. BEEKMAN, 
 HENRY E. BARTLETT, 
 
TESTIMONY^ 
 
 EXAMINATION OF MR. Wm. CURR. 
 
 June 1st, 1853. • 
 Question 1st. What is your profession? 
 A. A gardener. 
 
 Q. 2d. How many years have you been so engaged 1 
 
 A. Upwards of forty years, thirty five of which have been in 
 the city of New-York. 
 
 Q. 3d. Have you had any experience in laying out grounds as 
 a landscape gardener. 
 
 A. Yes, assisted in laying out Greenwood, Trinity Cemetery, 
 and laid ouj all the city parks, except the Battery, the City Hall, 
 and St. John's Square. 
 
 Q. 4th. What grounds have you so laid out 1 
 
 A. Union Square, Madison Square, Tompkins Square, Stuyve- 
 sant Square, and others. 
 
 Q. 5th. W^ere these grounds thickly covered with trees, or 
 were they quite bare 1 
 
 A. They were bare, Greenwood was thickly covered with trees, 
 as also was Trinity Cemetery. 
 
 Q. 6. In laying out grounds thickly covered with trees, where 
 you have. had to cut away large numbers of them, in order to 
 make walks, &c., have you found any disastrous efiects to ensue 
 10 those that are left ? 
 
 A. No ! I have never experienced any, where proper care was 
 exercised, have never under such circumstances lost any myself. 
 
12 [Senate 
 Q. 7. Are the trees so left apt to die ? 
 
 A. No ! they are not apt to die, unless jou cut away a very 
 large space, when some of the surrounding trees might perhaps 
 die, but not if only paths are cut away^ or they are merely thin- 
 ned out. 
 
 Q. 8. Were Greenwood and Trinity Cemetery much injured by 
 having the trees thinned out 1 
 A. No, they were not. 
 
 Q. 9. Are you acquainted with the grounds on New- York 
 Island, known as Jones' Woods? 
 
 A. Yes, I have known them for the past thirty years. 
 Q. 10. Have you been over it ? 
 
 A. Yes, frequently, on botanical excursions, hunting for plants. 
 Q. 11. What is the general character of the surface? 
 A. Undulating, the whole surface of the Island is undulating. 
 Q. 12. What is the character and general description of the 
 trees upon it ? 
 
 A. Large, consisting of liquid amber, oaks, tulip trees, and 
 others, also many species of shrubs, as the dogwood, the libur- 
 Hum, &c. 
 
 Q. 13. What is the relative position of the grounds, as to the 
 surrounding grade of the streets, can it be made to accord with 
 such grade without much expense ? 
 
 A. In some places is below, in others above the grade, on the 
 2d. av., is in some parts above, in some below the grade, could 
 by terraces or embankments be made to accord with surrounding 
 grade very readily. 
 
 Q. 14. What are your views as to its capability for being im- 
 proved and laid out as a public park 1 
 
 A. Nature has already made it a park, at a little expense it 
 could be made a most splendid affair. 
 
 Q. 15. If purchased, how long a time would it probably take 
 to make it available to the public as a park ? 
 
 A One year would make it available. 
 
No. 82. J 13 
 
 Q. 16. Aside from the purchase money and the amount neces- 
 sary to enclose it, what amount would probably, in your opinion, 
 be necessary to render it so available in the time you name ? 
 
 A. About ten or fifteen thousand dollars. 
 
 Q. 17. Are you acquainted with the grounds proposed to be 
 taken for what is called the Central Park ? 
 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q. 18. Hare you been over it? 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q 19. What is the general character of the surface? 
 A. Very undulating ; some parts very high, some very low, 
 but very rocky. 
 
 Q 20. What is the general character and general description of 
 the trees upon it ? 
 
 A. It is almost entirely bare of trees, they having been cut 
 down several years ago. 
 
 Q 21 . What is the general position of the ground as to the sur- 
 rounding grade of the streets ? Can it be made to accord with 
 such grade without much expense ? 
 
 A. In some places it is very high, in others very low; in many 
 parts it w^oi:^d have to be filled up, should consider at great ex- 
 pensQ, but does not know at what cost. 
 
 Q 22. What are your views as to its capability for being im- 
 proved and laid out as a public park ? 
 
 A. It could be made a fine park, but would cost a great sum 
 and many years to make it available. 
 
 Q 23. If purchased how long a time would it probably take to 
 make it available to the public as a park? 
 
 A. A great many years, perhaps fifty or sixty before the trees 
 would be as fine or as large as those in Jones' woods. 
 
 Q 24. Aside from the purchase money and the amount neces- 
 sary to enclose it, what amount would probably, in your opinion, 
 be necessary to render it available ? 
 
14 [Senate 
 
 A. I have not made any calculation, the amount, however, 
 would be very great. 
 
 Q 25. In laying out grounds, which would give you, as a land- 
 scape gardener, the best opportunity^of displaying your skill, 
 grounds covered with trees as Jones' woods, or gruonds entirely 
 bare as the proposed central park ? 
 
 A. I would much prefer ground covered with trees on account 
 of the time saved, in this case particularly, as there are many 
 trees growing which it is difficult to procure and to transplant, 
 the liriodendron, the liquid amber and the white oak for in- 
 stance. 
 
 Q 26. Would the present and proposed new croton reservoirs 
 be desirable objects in a park ? 
 
 A. I should think not; they would be very unsightly objects. 
 
 Q 27. Would tkey materially interfere with the general design 
 of a park 1 
 
 A. They would ; it would be difficult to bring them into the 
 general design. 
 
 Q 28. What, in your opinion as a landscape gardener, are the 
 comparative merits of the two localities for the purpose to which 
 it is proposed to appropriate them? 
 
 A. I should most decidedly prefer Jones' wood ; it is covered 
 with trees and is immediately available at a small expense. The 
 central park is without trees, would take many years to be made 
 available, and would require a great outlay of money. 
 
 Q 29. Would there be much difference to the neighborhood as 
 to the respective localities 1 
 
 A. There would not be much difference of convenience to the 
 neighborhood, whether the park were central or not 
 
 Q 30. Would this Jones' wood park be likely to benefit the 
 property around it ? 
 
 A. It would certainly improve the adjoining property, but so 
 would the central park ; the improvement would not be more in 
 one case than the other. 
 
 Q 31. How long would it require for trees now planted to be- 
 come ornamental 1 
 
No. 82J 15 
 
 A. That can be answered by taking Union Square as an exam- 
 ple; it was planted in 1837 or 1838, sixteen years ago, also 
 Washington Square laid out in 1829. 
 
 Q 32. When were the first trees planted in Washington Square? 
 
 A. In 1829 and 1830. 
 
 Q 33. If trees were thinned out so as to allow the grass to 
 grow under them, would they die ? 
 
 A. No, they would not die if thinned out judiciously. 
 Q 34. How is the soil of Jones' wood 1 
 
 A. It is generally very deep and well calculated for the growth 
 of trees. 
 
 Q 35. Is Jones' Wood as thickly covered with trees as Green- 
 wood w^as 1 
 
 A. Yes, about the same. 
 
 Q 36. Do the trees in Jones' Wood differ much in their 
 growth and general appearance from those in Greenwood ? 
 
 A. The trees in Greenw^ood are much more stunted in their 
 appearance than those in Jones' Wood. 
 
 Q 37. How far from the centre of the city, or the thickly 
 settled porti^Dn of it, as around Union-square, is Jones' Wood situ- 
 ated? 
 
 A. About three miles from Union-square. 
 
 Q 38. What was the cost of the fence around Union-square. 
 
 A. I do not exactly recollect, but think it was somewhere in 
 the neighborhood of forty-thousand dollars. 
 
 Q 39. Would not Jones' Wood require an equally expensive 
 fence to enclose it ? 
 
 A. No ; a lighter one would be far better. The fence around 
 Union-square is in very bad taste ; it is too heavy, and too prison 
 like in its appearance. 
 
 Q 40. What is the comparative size of Union-square and 
 Jones' Wood '? 
 
16 [Senate 
 
 A. Union-square contains about four acres, and Jones' Wood 
 contains about one hundred and fifty acres. 
 
 Q. 41. Could this park be laid out for less than a million of 
 dollars ? 
 
 A. I should think so. It might be laid out for ten or fifteen 
 thousand dollars. 
 
 Q. 42. What advantage would a park be to the citizens at 
 large ? 
 
 A. It would be a very great advantage to the whole city, as 
 affording means of recreation to the mass of the people, and as an 
 ornament. 
 
 Q. 43. Are there not already sufficient places provided for 
 such purposes 1 
 
 A. No, there are not. The present park and squares are all 
 thoroughfares, and laid out in straight lines, Avhereas Jones' Wood 
 would be rural, like the country. 
 
 Q. 44. Does Jones' Wood possess any advantages over the 
 Central Park, as to healthiness i 
 
 A. I do not know, as to general health of the city. The same 
 advantages would result from the Central Park as from the 
 Jones' Wood. 
 
 fJQ. 45. The fence being equal, would it cost more to plant th^ 
 Central Park than Jones' Wood. 
 
 A. It of course would cost very much less to plant Jones' 
 Wood, for the trees are already there. 
 
 Q. 46. Is the water deep and available for commercial pur 
 poses on the East river front of the Jones Wood ? 
 
 A. Yes ; the water is deep, and I suppose it might be used for 
 commerce. 
 
 Q. 47. Does this water front offer any advantages to the Jones 
 Wood as aifecting its being more healthy than the central park? 
 
 A. I do not think but what the central park would be healthy 
 enough, but the Jones' Wood has the advantage of a river breeze, 
 and this, with the beauty of the water view, would make me pre- 
 fer it. 
 
No. 82.] 17 
 
 Q. 48 What do you consider the chief advantage of Jones 
 Wood? 
 
 A. The chief advantage is the trees being already planted, 
 and its being available to the present generation at a small ex- 
 pense. 
 
 Q 49. Do you know any thing as to the value of this pro- 
 perty ? 
 
 A. I do not ; I only speak of the expense as connected with 
 the laying of it out. 
 
 Q 50. Do you know who are the owners of this Jones Wood 
 property ] 
 A. I do not. 
 
 Q 51. Who induced you to come here? 
 A. Mr. James Hogg. 
 
 Q 52. Has he held out any pecuniary recompense, or promise 
 as to your laying it out, should it be obtained? 
 A. He has not. 
 
 Q 53. Have you remarked that wherever paths or roads 
 have been laid out by the owners of the Jones* Wood, the trees 
 have died ? 
 
 A. I have' not remarked it. 
 
 Q 54. Would not the Jones Wood with its line deep soil and 
 splendid trees, be far more costly to purchase than an equal area 
 of the central park with its great ledges of rock ? 
 
 A. I do not know, it would depend somewhat upon the value 
 of the stone. 
 
 June \st^ 1853. Eocamination of Mr. Rufus Prime. 
 
 Q 1. Are you acquainted with ground proposed to be conver- 
 ted into Jones' park ? 
 
 A. Yes, I am well acquainted with it, have lived in that vici- 
 nity all my life. 
 
 Q 2. Is it more or less valuable than the ground that would 
 be occupied by the central park ? 
 
 [Senate, No. 82. J 2 
 
18 [Senate 
 
 A. It is less valuable ; lots in the centre of the island are more 
 valuable than those on the east side j I judge from sales made 
 within the last six months. 
 
 Q 3. Which in your judgment would be the most desirable for 
 a park? 
 
 A. Jones' Wood, most certainly, because it is already well 
 wooded and is near the river. 
 
 Q 4. What is the value of the lots there ? 
 
 A. I have recently sold about twenty acres on 86th and 87th 
 streets, from 1st avenue to the river, at $500 per lot, or $6,000 per 
 acre. 
 
 Q 5. Which would most promote the convenience of the pub- 
 lic, the central park or Jones' W^ood ? 
 
 A. The object of a park for the convenience of the public 
 would be most promoted by Jones' Wood, for it combines all the 
 requisites of a park already, the trees only requiring to be thinned 
 out as at Greenwood. 
 
 Q 6. Are you interested in the neighborhood of Jones' Wood. 
 
 A. No, not at present ; have parted with my interest in pro- 
 perty in that neighborhood. 
 
 Q 7. Will you not be taxed for the park ? 
 
 A. Yes, and as a property holder, I have found citizens willing 
 and ready to be taxed for this purpose. For some years public 
 attention has been drawn to it, and people have regarded it as a 
 very desirable thing, being well wooded and immediately availa- 
 ble. 
 
 Q 8. Have purchases of land been made for speculative pur- 
 poses growing out of this proposed park at Jones' Wood ? 
 
 A. No ; no purchases of land on speculation have been made, ari- 
 sing out of the proposed Jones' Wood ; at least I am not aware 
 of any. 
 
 Q 9. What is the character of the river opposite Jones' Wood? 
 
 A. Blackwell's Island being opposite you cannot dock out very 
 far, the tide runs very strong, the water is very deep. 
 
 Q 10. Do you think it would be necessary to enclose Jones' 
 Wood with an expensive fence ? 
 
N. 82.] 
 
 19 
 
 A. I do not think that an expensive fence is at all necessary. 
 Indeed a fence is not indispensable, there is none at the Bosch, at 
 the Hague, and if I recollect aright there is none at the Champs 
 Elysee at Paris. 
 
 Q 11 . Do you think a park is necessary ? 
 A. Yes, it is absolutely necessary. 
 
 Q 12. Do you think that in New- York especially we are in 
 need of parks. 
 
 A. Yes, our mechanics and working men need it as a place of 
 recreation for themselves and their families. 
 
 Q 13. What would be the effect of the park upon the prop- 
 erty immediately adjoining, as to buildings, &c. ? 
 
 A. I cannot say what kind of residences would be built, 
 whether extravagant buildings would be erected or not, 
 
 Q 14. Why would you prefer Jones' Wood to the central 
 park ? 
 
 A. I prefer Jones' Wood because we get immediate returns for 
 the outlay, the present generation will have the enjoyment of it, 
 and I think that unless now obtained we shall regret it hereafter. 
 
 June 9thj 1853. Examination of Dr. John Torrey. 
 Q 1. Whjt is your profession? 
 
 A. I am professor of Botany and Chemistry in the New- York 
 Medical College, was educated as a physician. 
 
 Q 2. What experience hav6 you had in horticultural mat- 
 ters ? 
 
 A. I have been studying botany from a boy. 
 
 Q 3. Are you acquainted with Jones' Woods ? 
 
 A. Yes, I have known them from a boy 
 
 Q 4. How are they situated ? 
 
 A. On the 3d av. and East river about 70th-street- 
 
 Q 5. How far are they from the Union Square, or from Har- 
 lem? 
 
 A. I do not positively know, perhaps 2^ or 3 miles from 
 Union Square, perhaps 2 or 3 miles south of Harlem, they are 
 very nearly 5 miles from the City Hall. 
 
20 [Senate 
 
 Q 6. What is the aspect of the ground? 
 
 A. It is very varied, undulating, a small portion rocky, part 
 laying low, the shore is partly rocky, which is'very steep, with 
 quite a considerable depth of water. 
 
 Q 7. What is the nature of the trees in Jones' W^ood ? 
 
 A. A large part of the ground is well wooded with trees of 
 unusual size. 
 
 Q 8. Would not these trees be injured by having paths and 
 roads cut through them ? . 
 
 A. I do not see why they should sutfer by opening paths thro' 
 them, it has not been the case in other grounds. I have seen 
 many cemeteries where the natural trees remained and flourished 
 notwithstanding paths and roads were cut through them. 
 
 Q. 9 In rocky situations where the soil is thin would they not 
 be likely to suffer 1 
 
 A. Yes, if the soil was thin and rocky the sun might affect 
 them unfavorably, but in these w^oods the soil is generally deep, 
 the rocky portions contain many crevices which are deep and 
 filled with earth, in which many trees of considerable[size are 
 growing. 
 
 Q. 10 Would you apprehend any danger from thinning out 
 these woods ? 
 
 A. No, I should not apprehend any. 
 
 Q. 11 Is there any great variety of trees in Jones' Wood ? 
 
 A. Yes, there is a great variety of our ordinary native forest 
 trees, among them are some very fine specimens of oaks, tulip 
 tree^ liquid amber, hickories, birch, and some cedars. 
 
 Q 12. Do you consider a water front of any advantage to a 
 park ? 
 
 A. Yes, I consider it a very great advantage, on account of 
 the view, a free circulation of air, &c. 
 
 Q. 13. How wide is the river at Jones' Wood and do vessels 
 of any size navigate it ? 
 
 A. The river between Jones' wood and Blackwell's Island 
 which is opposite, is about J of a mile in width, steamers and 
 other vessels often go through it. 
 
No. 82.J 21 
 
 Q 14. Are you acquainted with the proposed central park? 
 
 A. I am not acquainted with its proposed boundaries, but 
 know the region between 6th and 7th avenue, up as far as 86th 
 or 90th street. 
 
 Q 15. What is its general character? 
 
 A. As compared with Jones's Wood it is far more rocky, the 
 soil thinner, the rocks project more above the surface, are more 
 bald, and unpicturesque. 
 
 Q 16. Is the depth of soil in Jones' Wood sufficient for the 
 growth of trees ? 
 
 A. I should think it was quite sufficient. 
 
 Q 17. What is the character of the water front of Jones' 
 Wood? 
 
 A. The shore edge is rocky. 
 
 Q 18. How have you ascertained that soil in Jones' Wood is 
 deep? 
 
 A. I should infer so from the size of the trees. 
 
 Q 19. Is there any undergrowth in Jones' Wood ? 
 
 A. Yes ; there is much shrubbery, such as dogwood, vibur- 
 num, &c. 
 
 Q 20. Is ffot the central part of the island higher than Jones' 
 Wood ? 
 
 A. Y 61$ ; it is generally higher, but has a great deal of bald 
 rock. 
 
 Q 21 . Why do you prefer the east side to the centre of the 
 island ? 
 
 A. I prefer the east side chiefly on account of the water front 
 and the noble trees^ and very much doubt whether the centre 
 could be improved without enormous expense. 
 
 Q 22. Is there any difficulty in raising up young trees ? 
 
 A. I have not known any difficulty in raising trees where per- 
 sons have selected prop3r spots to raise them. 
 
 Q 23. Would a park improve the proi>erty in the neighbar- 
 hood? 
 
22 [Senate 
 
 A. 1 should suppose that the creation of a park would be of 
 advantage, and would very much improve the value of property 
 in the vicinity. 
 
 Q 24. Do you think the park wQuld benefit the property in 
 the lower part of the city ? 
 
 A. I am not capable of judging as to the commercial part o^ 
 the city, but as to private residences I should think it T^ould. 
 
 Q 25. Would a park be of any sanitary advantage to the 
 public ? 
 
 A. I think it would be of great advantage to the public health. 
 
 Q 36. Do you know the general condition of the country 
 around Jones' wood as to healthiness ? 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q 27. State what it was, or is. 
 
 A. It was formerly unhealthy, but now these parts are in some 
 portions as healthy as around Union Square. On the east side of 
 the island it is now more healthy than on the central part, which 
 have always been more unhealthy, the high and central parts 
 have been more sickly. At the Deaf and Dumb Institution they 
 suffered from fever and ague arising from stagnant water in the 
 centre of the island. 
 
 Q 28. Did not intermittent fever prevail in the lower part of 
 the island ? 
 
 A. Yes, it formerly prevailed in Greenwich village, and 
 around Lispenards' meadows, now Canal-street. 
 
 Q 29. Were there any swamps near the Deaf and Dumb In- 
 stitution ? 
 
 A. Yes, they were the seat of diseases. On Yorkville heights 
 there are stagnant ponds. 
 
 Q 30. Does not building up a city improve its health ( 
 A. The city, generally, has improved in health since it was 
 built up. 
 
 Q 31. Are not smaller or more level parks more healthy than 
 larger ones ? 
 
 A. No; larger parks are all drained by their natural drainage, 
 a dead level spot could hardly be allowed. 
 
No. 82.] 
 
 Q 32. Are there not swamps in Jones' woods ? 
 
 A. Yes, there is some swampy land ; but the natural drainage 
 of Jones' wood is better than the central part ; the swampy land 
 may be more readily drained. 
 
 Q 33. Would you consider the reservoirs as unhealthy? 
 
 A. No, I shquld not. 
 
 Q 34. Are you acquainted with the parks in London '? 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q 35o Do you know whether they are fenced in. 
 
 A. I do not recollect whether they are all fenced in, some are, 
 however, with iron fencing. 
 
 Q 36. What is the character of the surface of the parks in 
 London ? 
 
 A. The London parks are more level than the surface of New- 
 York island ; the trees are more scattered, being planted in clumps 
 or avenues, with grass under them. 
 
 Q 37. Are they much thought of by the citizens? 
 A Yes,, they are very much esteemed by the public. 
 
 Q 38. Are they much surrounded with residences? 
 A. Yes, it is densely populated all around them. 
 
 Q 39. By whom are they chiefly frequented ? 
 A. They are frequented by all classes, rich and poor, who 
 generally go better dressed than usual, when they visit them. 
 
 Q 40. In what light do the people of New- York regard this 
 Jones Wood park ? 
 
 A. I do not know positively how they regard it ; but as tar as 
 know, it is very much desired by them. 
 
 Q 41. Do you take much interest in this matter? 
 A. Yes, I take a deep interest in it, for I consider that the 
 welfare of the city would be essentially promoted by this park. 
 
 Q 42. Has not your occupation been rather that of a chemist 
 than a botanist? 
 
 A. No, it has been as much, if not more that of a botanist 
 than a chemist ; I have lectured on botany, and was employed as 
 botanist in the geological survey of this State. 
 
 Q 43. Where do you reside? 
 
 A. At number 96 St Mark's Place, New- York. 
 
24 I Senate 
 
 Q 44'. Would it not take some time to convert Jones' Wood 
 into a park ? 
 
 A. I think Jones' Wood could at once be converted into pub- 
 lic grounds, without much expense. 
 
 Q 45. Are not a large portion of Uie trees in Jones' Wood, 
 mere poles with a bush on the top ? 
 
 A. No, on the contrary, a large portion of the trees are very 
 well formed, and but few are poles with a " bush on the top." 
 
 Q 46. Will grass grow under the shade of trees when they 
 are thinned out? 
 
 A. I can see no reason why grass should not grow under trees 
 that have been thinned out. 
 
 Q 47. Do you know anything as to the value of this pro- 
 perty, its size and extent? 
 
 A. No, I know nothing as to its value, nor definitely as to its 
 size. 
 
 Q 48. Are there not many large trees in the centre of the 
 Island ? 
 
 A. Yes, there are some left. 
 
 Q 49. Will a tree, which is merely a bush on the top, ever 
 improve ? 
 
 A. Yes, they will improve by throwing out lower branches > 
 this is to be seen at any time, where trees have been left for the 
 purposes of shade, in clearing land. 
 
 Q 50. In how many years will trees become available as shade 
 trees ? 
 
 A. They will grow up perhaps in twenty-five years, the trees 
 in Washington Square will form a criterion. 
 
 June 9th. 1853. Examination of Mr, Thomas Hogg. 
 Q. 1. Are you acquainted with Jones' Wood? 
 A. Yes, I am well acquainted with it, for many years. 
 Q 2. Do you consider it well adapted for a public park. 
 
 A; In my opinion it can be made a park of, at a cheaper rate 
 than any other part of the island ; it is well covered with trees; 
 has a fine water front, and the growth of the trees shows that the 
 land is good. 
 
No. 82. j 
 
 25 
 
 Q 3. Are you acquainted with horticulture generally ? 
 
 A. Yes, for nearly 70 years, both in Great Britain and this 
 country. 
 
 Q 4. Do you suppose that if drives were laid out through 
 them, the trees would die? 
 
 A. Certainly not, have only to refer to Greenwood as an exam- 
 ple, but do not think it desirable to thin out much in this climate, 
 as owing to our greater'summer heats and drier climate, our parks 
 should be more shady than in England. 
 
 Q 5. Are you acquainted with the proposed Central Park, and 
 if so, what is the quality of the land ? 
 
 A. I am well acquainted with the whole island, from 60th street 
 to 100th street; it is pretty fair land, and mightmakea good park, 
 but a great deal of it is very rocky and wild, it would cost a 
 very large sum to make it available. 
 
 Q Are there any trees on the Central Park? 
 
 A. Scarcely any, they were all cut down when the reservoir 
 was built. 
 
 Q. 7. Is there any low ground in the Central Park ? 
 
 A. Yes, there is great deal of swamp, particularly north of 
 71st street ; as you go from the 3rd to the 8th avenue, there are 
 also severa? bone factories and other nuisances. 
 
 Q. 8. Suppose there were no trees in Jones' ~Park, w^hich 
 would you then prefer ? 
 
 A. I should prefer Jones' Wood on account of its being on the 
 river, and having the benefit of the breezes which always accom- 
 pany the tides. 
 
 Q. 9. Do you think that squares not bordering on the river 
 are useful ? 
 
 A. Yes, as breathing places for the city they are very useful. 
 Q, 10. Do such squares promote the health of the city. 
 A. Yes, the squares we have at present are highly beneficial 
 in that respect. 
 
 Q. 11. Would Union square produce any greater benefit, if it 
 were removed from its present locality and placed at either end 
 of Uth street on the riirer? 
 
26 [Senate 
 
 A. Noj it produces, as it is, the greatest benefit where it is, as 
 a current of air comes up 14th street, and others adjoining from 
 either river. But if it was a large place for the poorer classes to 
 resort to, it would be better on the river ; the cases are not alike. 
 
 Q. 12. Is the Central park much lower in the centre than the 
 grade of the streets ? 
 
 A. It is exceedingly low in the centre, and would have to be 
 filled up, it is certainly lower than Jones' Wood. 
 
 Q 13. Does not the Central Park include Harlem Heights ? 
 
 A. It does not take them in. 
 
 Q. 14. How deep is the soil in Jones' Wood. 
 
 A. In cutting through the 2nd avenue they found 25 feet of 
 earth, and in one place 30 feet of rock, with earth over it. 
 
 Q. 15. Which of the two proposed parks would be of the 
 most advantage to the surrounding property I 
 
 A. The central park would be of most advantage to those 
 Avho live round it, when the Island is built up, but tor the pres- 
 ent generation, Jones' wood is of m tst advantage. 
 
 Q 16. Would the central park be more expensive thar the 
 Jones wood ? 
 
 A. I do not know, am not acquainted with the value of the 
 property. 
 
 Q. 17. Are not the parks about London, generally at the in- 
 tersection of streets 1 
 A. Not generally. 
 
 Q 18. Is not the centre of the proposed central park high 
 ground ? 
 
 A. No ! there is a great deal of low ground in the centre up 
 to 86th street, towards the 8th avenue. 
 Q. 19. What is your occupation. ? 
 A. A nurseryman. 
 Q. 20. Where do you reside ? . 
 A. On 79th street, east of Third avenue. 
 Q. 21. Do you own the property where you reside ? 
 A. No ; I lease it, it is part of the Delafield place 
 
No. 82. 1 
 
 27 
 
 Q. 22. How many acres have you ? 
 A. About 10 J acres. 
 
 Q. 23. How far north of Jones' wood is your residence. ? 
 
 A. It is four blocks north. 
 
 Q 24. Have you ever laid out any parks ? 
 
 A. No ; I have not laid them out but when a journeyman 
 gardener, have worked in laying out gentlemen's places, but since I 
 have been in business for myself, I liave only acted in an advisory 
 capacity. 
 
 Q 25. Who have you advised with in laying out grounds? 
 A. With very many persons — ad vised Parmetier in laying out 
 
 the celebrated place of Dr; Hosack, at Hyde Park, advised with 
 Dr. Hosack in erecting his greenhouse and in making subsequent 
 improvements. 
 
 Q 26. Do you not find that trees will die when thinned out? 
 
 A. No, have only to refer you to Greenwood and Dr. Hosack 's 
 place at Hyde Park, where there were native woods, through 
 which we cut walks, and thinned them out. 
 
 June 9th. 1953. Examination of Mr. Benjamin Munn. 
 
 Q 1 . Where do you reside ? 
 
 A. In New- York. 
 
 Q 2. J^Vhat is your occupation ? 
 
 A. I am a landscape gardener. 
 
 Q 3. How long have you followed this profession ? 
 
 A. For many years, nearly twenty years. 
 
 Q 4. Did you ever practice it in Europe ? 
 
 A. No, never in Europe but in this country, have written for 
 the magazines, and after the death of Mr. Downing, edited the 
 Horticulturist until Mr. Tucker sold it to Mr. Vick of Rochester. 
 
 Q 5. Have you examined the grounds proposed for the Jones' • 
 Wood and the central parks ? 
 
 A. Yes, have examined both grounds, the central from 60th 
 to 100th streets, 70th streets near the eighth avenue is swampy with 
 knolls of rocky ground, covered with rough brush wood, very 
 rough ground indeed, from 71st street, it rises very considerably, 
 on eighth avenue, does not rise so much, above eighty- sixth street 
 it is more level, the ground continues to rise, but would require 
 
28 
 
 [Senate 
 
 much drainage in order to be converted into a park, the lowest 
 part is from sixtieth to seventieth streets. 
 
 I have also examined Jones' Wood ; went through it twice ; 
 it is near the 3d avenue ; towards the middle, the ground is wet ; 
 draining would cause the trees to be endangered, particularly af- 
 ter cutting out the paths ; it would require a great deal of thin- 
 ning out, it is so densely wooded ; if this cutting or thinning were 
 done injudiciously, it would endanger the trees ; I would not be 
 responsible for the result ten years after, some of the trees would 
 die. 
 
 Q. What is the difference between trees standing alone, and 
 forest trees standing close together I 
 
 A. In trees planted close together, the cellular tissue and fibre 
 and general texture of the wood and bark is too feeble to with- 
 stand the action of the sun and air, when thinned out or otherwise 
 exposed. 
 
 Q. Are you acquainted with Greenwood ? 
 
 A. I do not know Greenwood, have never visited it, and there- 
 fore have not examined it. 
 
 Q. Could trees be transplanted out of Jones' Wood ? 
 
 A. Single trees could not be set out alone, but they might be 
 set out in clumps or belts without damage. 
 
 Q. Could paths be cut without serious damage tp the remain- 
 ing trees ? 
 
 A. With care, they might be cut without doing much damage. 
 
 Q. How are the trees in Hyde Park, London ? 
 
 A. They are generally planted in clumps. 
 
 Q. Could not the Central park be soon made available ? 
 
 A. That portion from 71st to 86th-streets, between the 5th ave- 
 ' nue and the reservoir, might soon be made into a park. 
 
 Q. What would be the number of trees necessary and the cost 
 per acre for planting the Central park ? 
 
 A. I cannot form an approximation, it would depend upon the 
 mode of laying it out ; the ailanthus, the abele, the poplar, &e., 
 vary from fifty cents to two dollars each. 
 
 Q. Which of the two proposed sites are best adapted for a 
 park. 
 
No. 82. j 
 
 29 
 
 A. In my opinion the Central park is best, because Jones' 
 Wood is entirely too small, the situation is better as to ingress 
 and egress by the city railways. I would clearly prefer the Cen- 
 tral park, as I would undertake to make it a much finer park ; 
 there is more variety of surface, its inequalities are better, should 
 prefer it, even if both were bare of trees. 
 
 Q Which would be the best in a sanitary view 1 
 A. With reference to general health, I should prefer the Cen- 
 tral, because it was central. 
 
 Q Would it be possible to thin out Jones' Wood, and if so, 
 how long would it take ? 
 
 A. It would require great care and prudence to convert Jones' 
 Wood into a park ; the thinning out could not be completed in 
 less than seven years, but must be done gradually. 
 
 Q What is the general appearance and size of the parks in 
 Europe ? 
 
 A. They are generallv large ; that at Blenheim, belonging to 
 the Duke of Marlborough, contains 12,000 acres; they all planted 
 in belts, clumps, groups, &c. 
 
 Q Could the reservoirs be made ornamental ? 
 
 A. Yes, if expense w^ere no object they could be made very 
 ornamental by having hanging gardens, such as in old times were 
 at Nineveh or Babylon, by terracing around them : having foun- 
 tains, you may have anything you desire. 
 
 Q By what legal process do they appropriate parks in Eng- 
 land ? 
 
 A. Victoria park was appropriated by act of Parliament, do not 
 know as to the others, but suppose it was done in the same 
 way. 
 
 Q Have you had any experience in thinning out natural woods 
 in this country 1 
 
 A. No, I have not had any. 
 
 Q Have you ever laid out any parks in this country or Eu- 
 rope ? 
 
 A. No, I have never laid out any in either country. 
 
30 
 
 [Senate 
 
 June 1853. Examination of Mr. James Hogg. 
 Q 1. What is your profession 1 
 A. I am a nurseryman and seedsman, 
 Q 2. How long have you been so engaged ? 
 A. From my youth at least for 20 years. 
 Q 3. Are you acquainted with Jones' Wood ' 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q 4. What is the topography of the ground ? 
 
 A. It is high in the south-west corner, descending gradually to 
 the south-west, and also gradually descending to the river, on 
 the bank of which is a high bluff, broken where a stream passing 
 through the woods discharges itself ; the general lay of the 
 land is to the north. 
 
 The surface is undulating, generally, indeed for the most part 
 the soil is very deep, some rocks rise above the surface, their gen- 
 eral aspect is very picturesque. 
 
 A great portion of the land i? covered with a natural growth 
 of forest trees, some portions of it is pasture and general farming 
 lands, including several orchards. 
 
 Q 5. What is the general character of the trees ? 
 
 A. They generally consist of liriodendron or tulip tree, liquid- 
 amber, different species of oaks, birch, cedar, elms, &c. 
 
 Q. 6. How is it situated with regard to the grade of streets. 
 
 A. On the south side it is generally somewhat higher, on the 
 north side somew^hat lower. 
 
 Q. 7. Are you acquainted with the proposed central park ? 
 
 A. I am. 
 
 Q. What is the general topography of the grounds? 
 
 A. On the south-west corner it is low and swampy, from about 
 67th to 68th street, northward to the reservoir it is very low in 
 the centre, forming a ravine, but on the 5th and 8th avenue sides 
 there are high rocky ridges; north of 86th street it is rather more 
 level and less rocky. The highest portion is about 140 feet above 
 water mark, the lowest portion is but a few feet above it, per- 
 haps as much as 30 to 40 feet below the grade of the streets. 
 
No. 82.] 31 
 
 Q. 9. What is the general character of tlie trees, if any upon 
 it? 
 
 A. It is almost entirely denuded of trees, particularly the lower 
 portion ; on the upper portion there are here and there some 
 scattered trees, such as cedars, &c., and also some orchards. 
 
 Q. 10. How is it situated as regards the grade of the streets? 
 
 A. In some places it is nearly 100 feet above the grade ; in 
 others again it is nearly if not quite 40 feet below the grade, and 
 would require heavy embankments, which would materially in- 
 terfere W'ith the laying of it out. 
 
 Q. 11. Which is most eligible for the purposes of a public 
 park ? 
 
 A. Jones' Wood. 
 
 Q. 12. Why so? 
 
 A. Because it will cost less to make it available, because it is 
 already covered with trees, and the general aspect of the land is 
 more readily adapted to such purpose, and also because it can be 
 made available for the immediate use of the present generation. 
 
 Q. 13. Will trees die when thinned out, or when roads are cut 
 through them ? 
 
 A. Noj^they will not when done judiciously. 
 
 Q. 14. Have you had any experience or made any observa- 
 tion to this effect ? 
 
 A. Yes ; I would refer as instances to Greenwood, Dr. Ho- 
 sack's, at Hyde Park, Wm. Kelly, Esq., at Rhinebeck, and many 
 other places. 
 
 Q. 15. Have you made botany, more particularly vegetable 
 physiology, your study ? 
 
 A. I have. 
 
 Q. 16. Is your opinion derived from theoretioal or practical 
 knowledge ? 
 A. From both. 
 
 Q. 17. Have you been in England or Scotland ? 
 A. Yes, I have. 
 
 Q. Have you seen any of the parks there ? 
 
32 [Senate 
 
 A. Yes, I have visited all the public parks in London, and 
 have seen the parks of Lord Derby at Knowlesly Hall, near Li- 
 verpool, the Marquis of Westminister's at Eaton Hall, near Ches- 
 ter, the Duke of Buccleugh's, at -Dalkeith, near Edinburgh, and 
 others. 
 
 Q 19. What is their general aspect '? 
 
 A. They are generally very large, containing many hundred 
 acres ; they are generally well wooded, the trees being in masses 
 or large groups, with thickets or underwood, such as Rhododen- 
 drons, for the preservation of game ; there are also openings or 
 glades of grass, on which deer and sometimes cattle run and feed. 
 
 Q 20. Do you advocate the establishing of parks as a matter of 
 necessity, or as a matter of ornament to the city ? 
 
 A. I advocate them as matters of necessity. 
 
 Q 21. Why as a necessity ? 
 
 A. In order that our densely crowded population on the East 
 side of the city more particularly, may have a place for recrea- 
 tion, a place to which they may bring their wives and children, 
 and let them breath the fresh air, for the city inspectors' reports 
 show that 62 per cent of our mortality is with those under ten 
 years of age. New-York city must have breathing places. 
 
 Q 22. Have you made yourself acquainted with the compara- 
 tive cost of these two parks, I mean as to first cost. 
 
 A. Yes, from memoranda I have of the sales of some property 
 in the central park, and also a memoranda I have of a small sale 
 of the most eligible portion of Jones' Wood, and besides these, 
 from an examination of the assessors' book? in the tax office, I find 
 that the cost of the central park will be area for area from twice 
 to three times as much as the Jones' Wood. 
 
 Q 23. What are your memoranda ? 
 
 A. At the sale of the Amory estate in March 1852, seven 
 blocks or squares, six of them, extending from G5th to 71st street, 
 and from the 5th to 6th av., and one extending from 71st to 72d 
 street, between (Hh and 7th av., sold for an average of |37,402 
 per block. 
 
 At a sale of corporation property in Dec. 1852, four half blocks 
 and one whole block, situated between 72nd and 81st streets, and 
 
No. 82.] 33 
 
 between the 4th and 5th, the 5th and 0th, and 6th and 7th aven- 
 ues, sold ?t an average value of SG7,S76 per block. 
 
 Last year, at a sale of property on the 2nd and 3rd av., and 
 73rd street, twenty-two lots sold for an average value of $575 per 
 lot, nearly all avenue lots which would make the value ot the most 
 valuable purtion of the Jones' Wood, equal to about §30,000 per 
 block. 
 
 This present year the Jones' Wood is assessed for $539,600, or 
 an average value of $14,988 per block. 
 
 Seven blocks distributed in the proposed central park, are 
 assessed for an average value of $31 ,720 per block. 
 
 These are selected from 60th to 67th streets, and from 5th to 
 8th avenues, and are among the most rocky and least eligible of 
 that portion of the city. 
 
 Q. 24. Do you know wdiy it is proposed to make the central 
 park ? 
 
 A. The Common Council proposed to ma1 e it, because the pro- 
 perty on its proposed site is so rocky and so badly situated as to 
 grade, &c., that it would be an enormous assessment on its owners 
 to have it graded. 
 
 Q. 24. What would be the after cost of planting and laying 
 out the central park ? 
 
 A. It would require at least $1,500 per acre, on account of the 
 necessity of grading and bringing in soil to many parts of it. 
 
 Q. 26. How do the two localities compare as to healthiness ? 
 
 A. It is healthy around Jones' Wood, but the site of the pro- 
 posed Central Park is universally admitted to be unhealthy. 
 
 Q. 27. What would be the ultimate cost of laying out Jones' 
 Wood? 
 
 A. Not to exceed $200 per acre. 
 
 Q 27. W^ere you acquainted with the late Mr. Downing'? 
 A. I was well acquainted with him 1 
 
 Q. Have you any knowledge of his views as to thinning out 
 trees? 
 
 [Stiute No. 82.] 3 . 
 
34 [Senate 
 
 A. YeSj he approved of it. and -when he laid out the public 
 grounds at Washington, he much regretted that the natural wood 
 had all been cleared olf. In order to produce an immediate effect^ 
 he paid enormous prices, sometimes as iiigh as $20 per tree, for 
 those planted in Franklin Square, and around the Smithsonian 
 Institute. 
 
 Q. 30. Could the present and proposed reservoirs be made 
 available for purposes of ornament in the Central Park ? 
 
 A. Owing to their being elevated the water itself could not be 
 made ornamental, and the supply of Croton water is not suffi- 
 cient for the fountains we already have, let alone any others as 
 proposed for the Central Park. At a very enormous expense 
 hanging gardens or terraces might be made to disguise the un- 
 sightly walls of the reservoirs. 
 
 Q 31. How is Jones' wood situated as to the centre of popu- 
 lation 1 
 
 A. I judge the centre of population to be somewhere in the 
 vicinity of Delancy or Houston-street, and that, consequently^ 
 it would be accessible to two-thirds of our population by means 
 of the 1st, 2nd, 3d and 4th avenue railroads. 
 
 Q. 32. Have you visited Greenwood ? 
 
 A. Yes. 
 
 Q. 33. How does draining and thinning out the trees in the 
 lower portion of the grounds affect them 1 
 
 A. Not at all disadvantageously — they have thinned them out 
 severely around some of the lakelets, but the trees have not suf- 
 fered much injury. 
 
 Q. 34. Are you personally interested in this matter? 
 
 A. No, not in any way. 
 
 Q. 35. Are any of your family. 
 
 A. No. My father has a lease of some property on 79th street, 
 near 2nd avenue, but by the terms of his lease it can only be used 
 for nursery purposes. 
 
 Q. 36. Are you acquainted with the owners of the surround- 
 ing property 1 
 
 A» I am with Some of them. 
 
No. 82.] 35 
 
 Q. 37. Are you acquainted with any of the owners of the 
 property proposed to be purchased ? 
 
 A. I know some of them slightly. 
 
 Q. What are the feelings of either, or both in tliis matter? 
 
 A. There is a great diversity of feeling. General Jones and 
 Mr. Schermerhorn oppose it; others are indifferent, and so are 
 many of those who own surrounding property. 
 
 Q. 39. Are you paid to advocate this measure before the 
 Senate. 
 
 A. Not by anybody, in any shape or form. 
 
 Q. 40. Have any inducements been held out to you, so to do 
 
 A. None at all. 
 
 Q. 41. Why do you advocate a park, and Jones' Wood in par- 
 ticular ? 
 
 A. I have a bill before this Le2;islature authorisins; the Com- 
 mon Council of our city to give the free use of a portion of any 
 public park that may be hereafter created, to our Horticultural 
 Society, for the purpose of founding a Horticultural garden, and 
 if we have no park we have no garden. 
 
 I advocate the Jones' W^ood in particular, because of its adapta- 
 bility, and iijimediate availability to the public. 
 
 Q. 42. By whom are you intiueutially sustained in this 
 matter I 
 
 A. By the president and other members of the N.Y. Horticul- 
 tural Society. 
 
 Q. 43. Are any of these persons personally interested? 
 A. None that I know of. 
 
 Q. 44. Was the cost of fence included in your estimate for im- 
 proviDg Jones' AVood ? 
 
 A. No, nor either in that for the Central Park. 
 Q. 45. If roads and paths were cut through would the trees 
 die? 
 
 A. No, as a proof of this, there is a road in Jones' W^ood, cut 
 by Mr. Langdon, within the past five years, and the bordering 
 trees did not die. 
 
36 
 
 I Senate 
 
 Q 40. Is it desirable to preserve the natural forest, are not ex- 
 otic trees more valuable for the purposes of ^liade and ornament ? 
 
 A. The native trees are far the most desirable, and in all re- 
 spects greatly superior to exotic trees. 
 
 Q 47. What is the character of the river opposite Jones' Wood, 
 is it easily navigable for vessels of any class 1 
 
 A. The current is very strong and rapid, so much so, that the 
 most powerful steamboats never attempt to stem it when the tide 
 runs strongly, say at half tide. 
 
 Q. 48. What do you understand when apersom speaks of hav- 
 ing laid out a place, do you mean that he gave the design or that 
 he labored in carrying out the design ] 
 
 A. The term is used loosely and indiscriminately,applying some- 
 times to one and sometimes to the other, they bear the same re 
 lation to each as that of an architect to a builder. 
 
 Q 49 Could the Central Park be easily drained ? 
 
 A It would be drained with great difficulty, sew^ers | of a mile 
 in length would have to be especially constructed to carry the 
 
 wa'er off to either river. 
 
 Q 50. Would it be necessary to carry any of the cross streets 
 through it ? 
 
 A Yes, every 100 feet street would have to be carried through 
 it in order to give access from one side of the Island to ihe other. 
 
 Q What would be the effect of so doing ? 
 
 A It w^ould materially interfere wath the laying out, as the 
 embankments and cuts necessary for the streets, would destroy 
 its unity. 
 
 June 17, 1853. Mr. Samuel J. Gustin, a gardener and nursery- 
 man of New-Jersey, appeared before the chairman of the select 
 committee, and stated that his experience taught him to prefer 
 planted groves to natural forest for ornamental purposes. He in- 
 stanced two gentlemen's seats in New-Jersey, one of which re- 
 tained the original forest trees, the other had been planted with- 
 in thirty years; the latter has now far the most beautiful wood. 
 
No. 82.] 37 
 
 Mr. Gustin thinks the Central park preferable to the other, be- 
 cause it will aftbrd better opportuniiy for skiUuU planting and 
 fine ellisct; Jones' Wood does not possess, in his opinion, the same 
 advantages, being already gro.wn over in great part with native 
 timber. 
 
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