MEXICO 
 
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 A Stenographic Report of the 
 Interviews Obtained by the 
 Alva W. Taylo r Good Will 
 Mission in the City of Mexico 
 from July 28 to August 9,1926 
 

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Preface 
 
 U NDER THE LEADERSHIP of Dr. Alva W. Taylor, secretary of the Board 
 of Social Welfare of the Disciples of Christ, Indianapolis, Ind., a party 
 of thirty-two persons from the United States arrived in the City of Mexico 
 July 28, 1926, and remained until August 10, studying the problems of 
 Mexico from every angle with the hope of promoting good will between the 
 two great republic divided by the Rio Grande. The party was organized by 
 Dr. Taylor in the winter and spring of 1926 without any thought of timing 
 the visit to coincide with the religious crisis which reached a high point while 
 the group was in the Mexican capital. Each member of the group paid his 
 own expenses. All members of the group were Protestants; they came from 
 fifteen states and various professions. Most of them were actively identified 
 with Protestant religious enterprises, but each one went as an individual seek¬ 
 ing facts and not as the official representative of any organization. 
 
 The members of the party were: Dr. Alva W. Taylor, Indianapolis; Miss 
 Ruth Taylor, Indianapolis; Dr. Sidney L. Gulick, secretary of the commission 
 an international justice and good will of the Federal Council of Churches of 
 Christ in America, New York City; Dr. Miles H. Krumbine, pastor of the 
 Parkside Lutheran church, Buffalo, and Mrs. Krumbine; Dr. Howard E. Jensen, 
 professor of sociology in Butler University, Indianapolis, and Mrs. Jensen; 
 Dr. Joseph C. Todd, dean of the School of Religion, Indiana University, 
 Bloomington, and Mrs. Todd; Tolbert F. Reavis, professor in the School of 
 Religion, Indiana University, Bloomington; Dr. J. W. Putnam, dean of Butler 
 University, Indianapolis; F. F. Grim, dean of Atlantic Christian College, 
 Wilson, N. C.; P. E. Baker, chaplain of Fisk University, Nashville, Tenn.; Mrs. 
 Mary W. Roe, missionary to the American Indians, Colony, Okla.; H. E. Beck- 
 ler, associate secretary of the Ohio Council of Churches, Madison, O.; Dr. 
 Robert S. Holmes, director of forums, and Mrs. Holmes, Daytona Beach, Fla.; 
 Oliver C. Weist, pastor of First Community Church, Columbus, O.; John G. 
 Fleck, pastor of a Lutheran church, Baltimore, Md.; Charles Sebold, pastor of 
 the Congregational church. Vernal, Utah, and Mrs. Sebold; D. Finley Wood, 
 pastor of the Methodist Episcopal church, Zanesville, 0.; Hugh Darsie, pastor 
 of the church of the Disciples of Christ, Steubenville, O.; Howard Y. Williams, 
 pastor of the People’s Church, St. Paul, Minn.; W. O. Burgin, attorney, and 
 Mrs. Burgin, Lexington, N. C.; Lacy Simms, pastor of the Spanish mission 
 church of the Presbyterian Church in the U. S. A., Chicago; Laurence D. 
 Kohlmeyer, president of the Kolograph Company, manufacturer of portable 
 moving picture machines, Indianapolis; Miss Anna M. Klingenhagen, dean of 
 women, Oberlin College, Oberlin, O.; Miss Osee M. Dill, physician, Indianapolis; 
 Dr. Francis M. Williams, physician, and mayor of Richmond, Ind.; Joseph 
 Myers, Jr., managing editor of The Christian, a journal of religion, Kansas 
 City, Mo. 
 
 Miss Catherine Duval Smith, director of \. W. C. A. work in the republic 
 of Mexico for five years, and Dr. Andres Osuna, a member of the Carranza 
 cabinet and a noted Mexican educator, were the official guides, interpreters 
 and friends of the group in its course of study. Daniel Gish, a citizen of the 
 United States, instructor in aviation for the Mexican army and a close friend 
 of Senor Luis Morones, secretary of commerce and labor, aided in arranging 
 interviews with Mexican governmental officials. 
 
Following its two weeks’ study, the group approved and released to news¬ 
 papers the following statement of findings: 
 
 “This group of thirty-two students from the United States has spent two 
 weeks in an intensive study of the Mexican situation, covering the tense days 
 , around August 1. We have interviewed representatives of labor, of education, 
 of both Mexican and foreign business, of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, of 
 the Protestant churches, and of the government. All have received us with 
 courtesy and talked to us freely. 
 
 “We have seen no riots nor any signs of violence. We have searched for 
 such in vain and could discover no disturbances beyond a few of minor type. 
 We are assured by representatives of all groups, even those opposed to the 
 government, that the Calles government is strong, is in full command of the 
 situation, and that they anticipate no serious trouble. 
 
 “We believe a program of education and social reform is necessary to 
 the rehabilitation of Mexico. Without passing judgment on details or on the 
 methods used, we believe the Calles administration is engaged in a great 
 program of social reform, and that all who are truly interested in the welfare 
 of Mexico will cooperate in its essential undertakings. 
 
 “We believe that when the churches in Mexico accept, as they have done 
 in the United States, the fundamental democratic principle that every in¬ 
 dividual, irrespective of his religion, owes civic loyalty to the state rather than 
 to the church, that the religious question will be settled in Mexico and that 
 the church will prosper the more for it.” 
 
 The following pages contain the report by a public stenographer of the 
 principal interviews obtained by the Taylor seminar group, and certain addi¬ 
 tional matter regarded as necessary to an understanding of the present situa¬ 
 tion in Mexico. It is hoped this pamphlet may supplement the individual ef¬ 
 forts of the members of the group in promoting friendly relations between 
 Mexico and the United States. 
 
 J. M. 
 
The Views of President Calles 
 
 A s THE CLIMAX of its study tour, the Taylor group was received by 
 President Plutarco Elias Calles at Chapultepec Castle, the home of the 
 President, Monday, August 9, at 12:30 P. M. The President dismissed formali¬ 
 ties and answered questions from the group for about an hour. Dr. Andres 
 Osuna was the interpreter. Following is a stenographic report of the inter¬ 
 view: 
 
 CALLES: I am heartily pleased to receive this representative group from 
 the United States. I am delighted to see you and to know that you have 
 come to investigate conditions in Mexico, and to get first hand information 
 so that you may be able to go back and inform the American public of the 
 real conditions and about the reports that have been circulated by enemies of 
 Mexico and enemies of my own administration. I am ready to enter into con¬ 
 versation with you. I am also ready to answer any questions you may have, 
 or do my best to answer them, regarding conditions of this country. 
 
 QUESTION: The charge is made constantly that the administration is 
 anti-religious. We should like to have a statement from the President. 
 
 CALLES: The government on religious questions has no given tendency. 
 To the Mexican government all religions are equally worthy of respect. All 
 religions get equal protection and liberty. The opinion of the officials of the 
 government is that all religions are good because they have a moral tendency. 
 The difficulties in Mexico have been provoked by Mexican representatives of 
 the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church. The Catholic clergy is an intoler¬ 
 ant clergy. They think all ought to conform to their dogmas and ought not 
 be allowed any other religion. At present they cannot do what they used to 
 do. They cannot now persecute members of any other religion. Of course, 
 the government of the Republic had to suppress the outrages of the Catholics. 
 On the other hand, the Catholic clergy has always been trying to keep from 
 obeying the laws. They have never been willing to obey any other authority 
 than that of Rome. In that way they have been trying to make fun of the 
 institutions of the country. What better ground, logically, could the govern¬ 
 ment have had on which to take extreme and drastic measures to make them 
 obey the law. The Catholic clergy has always had the tendency, not only 
 here but in all pa,rts of the world—-but its action is more visible in Latin 
 America-—to keep -the masses in the most absolute ignorance; it has only 
 tried to make fanatics of these masses without ever being a factor in the 
 moral and intellectual development of the people. The Catholic clergy 
 throughout our history has had the tendency to absorb the economic resources 
 of the country. During the period of Spanish domination and down to our 
 days it has tried to absorb all our wealth. The clergy knows that in con¬ 
 trolling the economic power of the country they control the political power 
 also. Their efforts have always been towards keeping in their control the 
 political power. It is this procedure of the Roman Catholic clergy that has 
 wrought in our country the bloodiest struggles; the War of Three Years, the 
 War of Reform, and many of the later revolutionary movements in Mexico had 
 their origin in the clergy’s doings. Liberal ideas have triumphed and the 
 economic and social revolution that is taking place in Mexico no longer 
 tolerates the intrusion of the Catholic clergy in matters that are not properly 
 spiritual. 
 
 QUESTION: We have been told both here and in the United States 
 that in some cases the measures applied have been too radical. 
 
 — 5 — 
 
CALLES: Point me out a concrete example. Have you any to tell me? 
 
 ANSWER: None. 
 
 CALLES: The Federal Constitution of the Republic, that is our basic 
 law, establishes certain principles concerning the clergy, but nO' penalties had 
 been fixed for those who were found to infringe against these principles. For 
 example, the constitution forbids priests or ministers of any religion whatever 
 to avail themselves of the pulpit to deliver sermons or addresses of a seditious 
 character, but no penalty had been established by law with which to punish the 
 trespass until very recently when the amendments to the penal law were 
 enacted. Now the clergy protests against this law, evincing thereby its 
 intention of violating it. If, at this moment, there were no regulations impos¬ 
 ing penalties for robbery, would it be justifiable to protest against the enact¬ 
 ment of a regulation establishing the penalty for such demeanor? Thieves 
 would protest, but men with no intention of dedicating themselves to robbery 
 would not do so; that is to say, that protest would come only from law breakers. 
 The Constitution of the Republic says that all acts of public worship are 
 prohibited outside church edifices; and now the new penal law imposes a 
 penalty on all those who violate this regulation. The clergy protest against 
 this. Why? Undoubtedly because it has the intention of not fulfilling the 
 law. Mexico has been forced to take these measures because of the experi¬ 
 ence it has had during centuries. Pulpits have been used as platforms for 
 seditious propaganda and that is where our internal wars have been fostered; 
 and it is because of this the priests have been forbidden to make such bad use 
 of their platforms. Acts of public worship outside of the church have been 
 forbidden because they are means which the priests utilized to provoke dis¬ 
 orders and riots. The Government of the Republic is obligated to have the 
 Constitution respected and fulfilled. There cannot be any social class exempt 
 from obedience to the law. 
 
 QUESTION: In case the priests admitted the Government was in the 
 right and promised to comply with the law, would the measure be withdrawn? 
 
 CALLES: The law would continue in force, but if the clergy complied 
 with its provisions there would not arise any difficulties nor would there be 
 needed any application of the penalties established. 
 
 QUESTION: Some of us are ministers of religion. In our country 
 
 we use the pulpit to discuss political matters of general interest. Could the 
 same thing be done in this country? 
 
 CALLES: In Mexico the law forbids anything in addresses or sermons of 
 seditious, political character, for you must understand that in these Latin 
 American countries where the clergy is not in power, it is always against the 
 government. 
 
 QUESTION: We would like to know if priests can perform acts per¬ 
 taining to their ministry in private houses according to the law. 
 
 CALLES: The Government is not interested in questions of beliefs or 
 dogma. Within the church the clergy can perform whatever acts they may 
 desire that are religious and spiritual in character, and within private houses 
 they can also baptize and administer all existing sacraments, and any sacra¬ 
 ments they may wish to invent. 
 
 QUESTION: In the United States ministers of religion cannot speak in 
 the name of the church when dealing with subjects or matters that are not 
 concerned with religion. When they speak of such matters they do so in 
 their own name. 
 
 CALLES: Here it is not so. In Mexico the clergy, in order to attack the 
 faw, do so in the name of their religion. 
 
 —6 
 
QUESTION: We have been informed that Protestant ministers are 
 
 violating the law as much as the Catholic priests and that the Catholic priests 
 are struggling in behalf of all religions. 
 
 CALLES: That is not exact. It is a lie. The Protestants are strictly 
 complying with the law. 
 
 QUESTION: In case there should come as viistors to Mexico any Protes¬ 
 tant ministers, would they be allowed to exercise their ministry within the 
 churches? 
 
 CALLES: No. I will explain to you why. Superficially looked at, 
 this appears as a too radical measure, but we have been forced to enact a law 
 general in character. Foreign clergy, especially of the Roman Catholic persua¬ 
 sion, have been a veritable calamity to our people. Thousands of priests have 
 been sent to us from Europe, especially of Spanish and Italian nationality; 
 these priests have been the scum of the clergy—what the Europeans them¬ 
 selves have not wanted to bear with. They have come to this country with the 
 purpose only of exploiting us; they have come to make fanatics of the common 
 people, and have tried by every possible means to maintain the masses in 
 ignorance; they have come attempting to absorb the economic power of the 
 country, to take from the nation all the money they can, which they carry to 
 Europe; they have always tried to interfere with the internal affairs of the 
 country; they have never been factors of cooperation for the forward 
 movement of the people; they have never cooperated for the moral develop¬ 
 ment of the nation. Confronted by this invasion of contaminating elements 
 the nation has found it necessary to take preventive measures. The law has 
 had to be general in character, hence we could not specify that certain foreign 
 ministers could exercise their ministry in Mexico. 
 
 QUESTION: Have the Protestant ministers expressed to you that they 
 are in accord with the Government’s program? Have they expressed to you 
 their willingness to comply with the laws? 
 
 CALLES: Yes, they have made me such expressions, not only here but 
 from the United States as well. I have received from them copies of orders 
 that their higher officials have issued, commanding Protestant ministers to 
 comply with the Mexican laws. 
 
 QUESTION: We would like to know the program of the Mexican govern¬ 
 ment for social development. 
 
 CALLES: With much pleasure. I am very glad that you ask me con¬ 
 cerning this matter. The Mexican Government’s program is very intricate 
 and very difficult to carry out, but we are working towards its realization with 
 great faith—in this sense I am fanatical. Its most difficult point is that which 
 refers to the popular classes, meaning by this the workers both of the city 
 and of the country, especially the latter who are chiefly Indians. The peasant 
 masses of the country have been since the colonial epoch until a short time 
 ago under conditions of slavery; we can almost say they did not own the air 
 they breathed. Land property in Mexico was held by the Conquerors and this 
 property has been handed down among them from generation to generation 
 so that the owners of the land have been only a few privileged mortals, while 
 the millions of human beings that live in the fields have been subjected to a 
 condition of slavery. These poor peasants have not owned the land on which 
 to build their homes nor even the two yards in which to be buried. The land 
 holders, and the clergy fits in here, have maintained them always in ignorance. 
 Tte clergy has always sided with the mighty ones of the earth and have never 
 been friends of the humble ones as Jesus commanded. Wages that have been 
 paid in the haciendas to the tillers of the land have been so miserable that 
 they have not sufficient to satisfy the necessities of the stomach. The pig of 
 
 — 
 
the hacendado (land owner) has been better fed than the peones (farm hand 
 serfs) who work from sunrise to sunset, for those wages have been from 
 fifteen to eighteen centavos (7% to 9 cents American) a working day. Earn¬ 
 ing only this, it has been impossible for them to meet the food requirements 
 for themselves and their families. The government which arose from the 
 Mexican Revolution has made every effort to aid the peasant classes and, 
 therefore, laws have been enacted to give the Indian pueblos the lands they 
 have needed for their lives’ sakes. We desire that these poor Indians who 
 were slaves may be freed from such a pitiful condition and become small 
 land owners. Not only that, but the government has realized that the problem 
 was not solved with the giving of lands as the only measure, and so the 
 financial question has also been tackled through the organization of a financial 
 organization. As the peones were in direst poverty, they had not the where¬ 
 withal! for starting to work and making the land given them by the govern¬ 
 ment fruitful. We established then banks for financing those who had been 
 given land by the government, with the National Bank of Agricultural Credit 
 as the central unit. These banks are entrusted with obtaining for the peasants 
 farming implements, machinery and the necessary livestock. At the same 
 time, much attention is being given to the social organization of these masses. 
 Young people especially trained for this work in the government schools are 
 organizing the former peones into cooperative groups to free them from being 
 economically exploited. In this manner we desire to attain to the economic 
 independence of the peasants, because we believe that first and prime atten¬ 
 tion should be given to the exigencies of the stomach. But at the same time 
 
 - * 
 
 we are developing a very intense cultural effort. We are establishing schools 
 in all centers of population, no matter how small they are, because we believe 
 that it is absolutely indispensable to raise the intellectual level of the people, 
 especially of the working people, this being the best help that can be given the 
 masses, and the best way of making ours a great and respected people. The 
 Government’s program calls for a thousand additional schools every year 
 throughout the Republic. This year we opened a thousand schools above the 
 number that were functioning last year and in next year’s budget we are 
 taking care of a thousand schools besides those that are now in operation. 
 My idea is that wherever people have settled down, wherever there are twenty 
 resident children or more, there should be a public school. This work we are 
 carrying on in the country is matched by the effort we are likewise making in 
 the cities, where we are giving special attention to the laboring classes, be¬ 
 cause it is my belief that it is these classes who need most immediate help, 
 considering that the well-to-do can defend themselves. In this country, labor 
 organization has developed intensely within the last few years; almost all the 
 trades are unionized, and the government is making an effort to make possible 
 for these organizations to have the benefit of acquiring all possible culture. 
 Schools and libraries have been established, especially in the trade unions, and 
 educational lectures are being given constantly to them. This very important 
 work has made possible already the great evolution that has taken place in the 
 minds of the working classes, who have advanced ideas. You can see for your¬ 
 selves that Mexican labor is backing the program and the policies of the Govern¬ 
 ment. As I said before, the fulfillment of this program is very difficult be¬ 
 cause everything has to be done for the first time. Out' task is arduous. We' 
 are in a period of development, of growth. The Government’s chief aim has 
 been the economic independence of the country. We have overlooked no effort 
 that we can make-, that can be effective, towards having Mexico become a 
 self-sufficient country. The struggle to attain this is intense, but after two* 
 years of such work we find ourselves near the realization of our purpose.' 
 
 — 8 — 
 
The Government budget is well balanced, the Government is fulfilling its obli¬ 
 gations, both domestic and foreign; the Government is opening highways and 
 carrying out large irrigation works; the irrigation planned calls for the re¬ 
 habilitation of a million hectares of land. This plan will be a reality in four 
 years at the latest and thereafter Mexico will be in condition to produce not 
 only all that is required for its own life but also a surplus with which to come 
 to the aid of other peoples. We have achieved the complete reorganization of 
 our finances, with the result that we have now all the resources we need for 
 our national life. At this very moment there are great schools under con¬ 
 struction for the agricultural education of the peasants. On September next 
 we shall be ready to inaugurate four of these large schools whose purpose it 
 will be to train men into able agriculturists. These schools are not only 
 practical, but they will offer all of the comforts and all of the facilities that 
 universities offer. The Government’s work has for its purpose the greatest 
 welfare possible for the masses; its aim is to make for the happiness of the 
 greatest number of homes. Naturally this work does not meet with the 
 approval of the privileged classes of the nation. 
 
 QUESTION: It is said in the United States that the program of the 
 Mexican Government is patterned after the Russian Government. 
 
 CALLES: Mexico patterns nothing after anybody. The Mexican Govern¬ 
 ment has its own problems and solves them according to its own necessities. 
 It does not transplant here anything that is exotic. 
 
 DR. TAYLOR: Mr. President, if there is anything we can do for Mexico, 
 we shall be only too glad to do so. Can you suggest how we can render your 
 country some service? 
 
 CALLES: I thank you heartily for the good will that you express. There 
 is, indeed, a way in which you can be of help and that is to tell the truth 
 about what you have found here. 
 
 The Historic Background 
 
 of Mexico 
 
 T he first item on the program of study by the Taylor group was an address 
 on the historic background of present conditions in Mexico, by Carleton 
 Beals, author of “Mexico—An Interpretation,” an American writer who has 
 spent several years in Mexico. He spoke as follows: 
 
 When Cortez came to Mexico he found social organizations and govern¬ 
 ments ranking with and, in certain things perhaps, surpassing those found in 
 Mexico today. Four or five groups stand out more prominently than the 
 rest. One of these, the Nahuas, extended through that part of Mexico along 
 the mountains of the western coast. Before the coming of the Nahuas was an 
 earlier race, the origin of which is not known, called the Toltecs. They migrat¬ 
 ed from the North about 700 A. D. The earlier group was replaced by the 
 Nahuas, of which the Aztecs were a tribe. The late comers adopted the civiliza¬ 
 tion already there. A superior race was the Maya, occupying the territory 
 about Yucatan and extending to Honduras and parts of Salvador. Each of 
 these tribes left certain relics of their civilization, and certain definite con¬ 
 tributions to the parts of the country which they occupied. The inhabitants 
 of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec are today a distinct race, living largely apart 
 from the rest of Mexico. 
 
 The capital of the Indian civilization was on the site of what is known 
 
today as Mexico City. It was founded in 1325. It developed from a settle¬ 
 ment of lake dwellers into the modern City of Mexico, which does not repre¬ 
 sent Mexico, but a hodgepodge of American, Spanish, and Indian peoples. 
 
 The colonial regime did not develop the Indian, but exploited him. 
 Certain institutions were imposed upon the people by the conquering race. 
 The priests were men of sterling qualities and came with high ideals, leaving 
 lucrative positions to come to convert the natives, and they protested against 
 the cruel exploitation by the conquerers. Gradually the religious conquest 
 became more and more like that of Spain and the church worked less and less 
 in behalf of the Indian, which finally resulted in a rigid caste system with 
 Spain at the top. Next was the Creole, who was denied many of the privileges 
 of the Spaniard, having few rights in the government. Next was the Mestizo, 
 who belonged neither to one civilization nor to the other, without country or 
 culture. Lastly came the Indian upon whom fell the full burden of the 
 exploitation. 
 
 The movement for Mexican independence was not for freedom, but was a 
 reactionary movement coming at a time when the old world was being attacked 
 by Napoleon and the old order was passing. The Creoles wished to shut out 
 the changes of the old world and to keep the new political system from taking 
 root in America. Independence did not help the Indian. The reacticnary 
 movement came at a time when he was not ready for independence. The 
 Mexican government was established upon the basis of a Catholicism far more 
 intolerant than that in Spain at the same time. With the coming of the idea 
 of democracy came the development of a federal army whose overbearing 
 and egotistical officers imposed their will upon a people who, having been 
 submerged for three centuries, were easy prey to such efforts. 
 
 Juarez was a pure blooded Indian from Oaxaca. It was not until he was 
 in his ’teens that he learned Spanish and how to read. Later he studied law, 
 became governor of his state, a member of the governing body of Mexico, and 
 finally president of his country. He spent much of his time in exile and 
 much in unequal contests. He had, at one time, to sell peanuts on the streets 
 of New Orleans. Juarez introduced a new epoch in Mexico. During the 
 regime of Diaz, when the intervention of foreign capital began, much land 
 and mineral and agricultural resources of the country were handed over to 
 foreigners. As a result, there came the revolution of Madero in 1910. 
 
 The earlier program of Madero showed little grasp of the agrarian and 
 economic problems of the country. In Mexico there was no philosophical back¬ 
 ground for a revolution. It just happened. It was a pragmatic revelation, 
 finally ending in the Queretero constitution of 1917, which was adopted to 
 solve certain problems up to that time. The most notable ideas were antagon¬ 
 ism to the church, a strong Indian influence, a reaction against existing in¬ 
 dustrial conditions, and an attempt to reserve Mexico for Mexicans. The 
 people clamored for means of popular expression heretofore denied them. It 
 was an interruption of foreign intervention and the incoming of foreign 
 capital. During the period of independence there was no real form of popular 
 organization. The present period is the first since the Conquest in which the 
 Mexican people have found a means of achieving popular organization. The 
 attempt at popular organization is something new and untried in Mexican 
 history. There is a tendency toward social organization of popular groups 
 attempting to work out problems involved, rather than having them solved by 
 selfish or egotistical and unfriendly ruling groups, who constantly quarrel 
 among themselves. 
 
 The period of reconstruction following the revolution includes the adminis¬ 
 trations of Caranza, Obregon, and Calles. There are very difficult problems 
 
 — 10 — 
 
to be solved and we should sympathize with the people in their effort to 
 establish a plan of human liberty. We should not harass or suspect them. 
 We are dealing with a problem, not merely of Mexico, but of all Latin America. 
 We are face to face with a great racial bloc and a great racial culture. It is 
 not the mere question of a moment; it is a much more serious business. , It is 
 the question of a policy toward Latin America and the future peaceful relation¬ 
 ships of the Western Hemisphere. 
 
 Questions and Answers 
 
 QUESTION: Was it Juarez, the peanut seller, who later returned and 
 ousted Maximilian? 
 
 ANSWER: It was. 
 
 QUESTION: Will you evaluate the injustice done to those who came 
 here to develop the country? 
 
 ANSWER: We must consider the future happiness of the people as well 
 as the question of justice to those who have served. Some foreign capital 
 suffered as a result of the 1910-1926 revolution, while some of the investors 
 made a great deal at the time. The restitution of properties and the re¬ 
 ordering of social organizations is somewhat the same principle of conservation 
 as that followed in the United States. The earlier grants of Spain were based 
 upon agricultural, pasturage, and mineral rights, and many old titles have been 
 handed down from one to the other without being cleared up. The idea of 
 sub-soil rights has long been in existence and was in dispute prior to 1917. 
 Caranza insisted upon the filing of titles and was opposed by oil and mineral 
 interests because of an agreement between them not to contest each other’s 
 titles. Many disputes arose from this opposition. At one time, upon the in¬ 
 vestigation of certain objections of the United States, it was found that Mex¬ 
 ican oil companies were paying more taxes to the United States than to 
 Mexico. The foreign property holding law limits the holding of foreign prop¬ 
 erty along the boundaries and says they must relinquish right to appeal through 
 diplomatic channels to their own government in case of disputes arising with 
 Mexico. These things have lessened the inflow of foreign capital. Perhaps 
 Mexico will be better off with a slower inflow of foreign capital. A too rapid 
 introduction of foreign culture and capital may cause trouble as in Mexico and 
 China today. 
 
 QUESTION: What will be the result of the withdrawal of foreign capital 
 from Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: It is doubtful whether or not the amount of foreign capital 
 invested in Mexico is any less than before the revolution. It is possible that 
 the amount is even greater. 
 
 QUESTION: Has foreign capital suffered? 
 
 ANSWER: Most of the petroleum companies have managed to pay 
 
 dividends. 
 
 QUESTION: What has the investment of foreign money left behind for 
 Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: The Spaniards left beautiful churches and evidences of civili¬ 
 zation, but when the oil and minerals are taken out, we do not know what will 
 be left. The government gets a revenue; Mexicans get employment, at per¬ 
 haps a higher wage than in many other places in Mexico. 
 
 QUESTION: Do the local states have the power to build schools with 
 tax money? 
 
 ANSWER: Taxes on petroleum are federal and go into funds for the 
 general administration of the government. 
 
 11 — 
 
QUESTION: Does a consciousness of original indigenous groups still 
 
 exist today, affecting the social groups of today? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. The Indians are conscious of old tribal relationships. 
 The Mayas have made several attempts to separate from the central govern¬ 
 ment. An appeal was made to the United States and to Guatemala as late as 
 1920 . 
 
 QUESTION: Is the group consciousness based on old traditions? 
 
 ANSWER: It may be consciousness of kind, a certain social homogeneity 
 which has historical roots. There is some survival as to religious concepts, 
 handicrafts, and language. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the government doing anything to educate the masses on 
 current problems? 
 
 ANSWER: I do not know whether or not the government has set out 
 with anti-church propaganda. Anti-church ideas are a motivating cause of the 
 revolution. Educational work is'being done throughout the nation in the way 
 of manual training, etc. 
 
 QUESTION: What per cent of the children will be without schooling if 
 the church schools are suppressed? 
 
 ANSWER: Schools are not obliged to close provided they do not teach 
 religion. Churches have known they were conducting establishments contrary 
 to the government in Mexico; therefore, they are as much culpable as is the 
 government. The greater part of the school population was in government 
 schools. 
 
 QUESTION: Will there be a loss to school facilities as to faculty, etc.? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. 
 
 QUESTION: Are government teachers ready to take up the work? 
 
 ANSWER: The government has an educational system. If private schools 
 cease to exist, the government schools will go on. But the government has 
 difficulties on account of lack of money. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there any way of estimating what proportion of time 
 these church teachers gave to secular teaching and what will be the loss in 
 ordinary education as done in public schools? 
 
 ANSWER: I will not venture upon any statistics because I have not 
 checked up on conditions. 
 
 QUESTION: Is foreign capital obedient and becoming friendly to 
 
 government? 
 
 ANSWER: A group of oil people said they would agree to government 
 regulations if given special concessions by the government. They see which 
 way the wind blows and then obey the laws if it is to their advantage to do 
 so. Naturally they resent the restrictions and call it persecution at first, until 
 they become accustomed to the law, then they obej'^ with less and less of com¬ 
 plaint. Many are agreeing to work by the new laws. 
 
 QUESTION: To what extent would native Mexicans be able to carry on 
 their industries if the United States and England should withdraw their in¬ 
 vested capital? 
 
 ANSWER: The withdrawal of foreign capital is doubtful and improbable. 
 Such withdrawal, should it take place, would be disastrous. It would be im¬ 
 possible for the Mexicans to take up the lines of industry immediately, and 
 develop them. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the present situation due to the religious history? 
 
 ANSWER: I would hesitate to attribute all to one cause. The conflict 
 is of long standing. Many factors are responsible. The revolution leaders 
 have had a consistent anti-church history, however. 
 
 12 
 
Mexican Protestant Views 
 
 O N July 29 the Taylor group heard addresses by several Mexican Protestant 
 leaders and asked questions of them. The Rev. Vicente Mendoza, pastor 
 of a prominent Methodist Episcopal Church of Mexico City said: 
 
 Perhaps you have heard in the United States that the Mexican govern¬ 
 ment is swallowing Protestants. We represent practically all orthodox Protes¬ 
 tant churches. For the last fifty years we have been doing our work under 
 the handicap arising from the old traditions of these people, created by and 
 founded upon Catholic thought and traditions. When we came here, the Catho¬ 
 lic church started persecution everjrwhere. Nevertheless, we have succeeded 
 with our schools and all of them are filled to overflowing with students. This 
 means that the Catholic people accept our standards of teaching and recognize 
 the superiority of our schools over those of the government. Now the govern¬ 
 ment has started a real attempt toward establishing better schools. Our 
 Christian schools are still on the very best basis of morality and adhere to a 
 high type of Christian teaching. We have conquered in Mexico by means of 
 our schools. 
 
 We find serious difficulties because of propaganda of Catholics. When we 
 came, they circulated the story that we were here to give money to those who 
 would go to our church. Later they scattered the announcement that some 
 missionaries were coming with much money in order to make Protestants of 
 all the people. 
 
 Another handicap is certain social ideas which make it difficult for us to 
 enlist certain classes of men in Mexico. They are our friends, but only in the 
 shadows of night. They go to our schools and applaud our work but time 
 after time, upon meeting us on the street, they turn their faces to avoid 
 greeting us and showing that we are their friends. Especially is this true where 
 the Catholic church has a stronger hold and influence on the people. In 
 Mexico City, where there are more liberal ideas and more intercourse between 
 men and women it is not so true, but it is true even here to some extent. They 
 fear for their social prestige. The women particularly are loyal to the Catholic 
 church. Many men go with their wives, even when they do not believe as do 
 the women. When we were starting a new line of education in our churches, 
 they realized our ability and helped us, showing an appreciation of our ef¬ 
 forts. When we are farther along in our work and the system is better 
 developed, we may succeed in getting these men of high position to join us, 
 openly. Now we are going ahead with our work and are seldom molested. 
 Sometimes, in little towns, we are embarrassed in our work by people in¬ 
 fluenced by the teaching of priests. We have been accused of accepting a 
 foreign belief and of being untrue to our own country. This accusation is 
 made only by people of a certain type, who do not think for themselves, but 
 who are usually led by priests or so-called patriots. 
 
 In spite of all hindrances, our work is going ahead and many opportuni¬ 
 ties are being opened to us. If you go to our churches next Sunday, you will 
 find every seat taken. My church accommodates more than 600 people and all 
 seats are taken every Sunday. In time of difficulties we sometimes have a 
 larger attendance. 
 
 We feel handicapped by the recent regulations of the government, but 
 different laws cannot be made for different people. One law must be for all. 
 Though the law aims at the Roman Church, we must submit because it is best 
 for all of us. We have no missionaries really, now, in Mexico. The work is 
 under the Mexican leadership entirely. Our people are a good example of 
 
 13 — 
 
’submission to the law. We are glad to submit. We can find other ways of 
 spreading the influence of the gospel. They may separate our schools from 
 our churches if they wish. We can teach religion in many ,ways. We are 
 trying to teach through personality, in life, in the street, everywhere. We 
 Protestants submit to the law and obey the law. If the law is against us, 
 there is a legal way to try to change it, better than the effort to change it by 
 breaking it. 
 
 Now is the chance for the Protestant people. Everything is said to be 
 made in our behalf. The government is treating us exactly as it treats other 
 people, but we are not suffering because we are obeying the law. We work 
 together for the good of all the people. We do not object to this restriction. 
 We are willing to obey our government because we know it is for our good 
 and for the good of other people. 
 
 Questions and Answers 
 
 QUESTION: Are the Protestant pastors really not worried over the 
 present situation? Do the Protestant pastors as a body agree with you? Are 
 they willing to go ahead with their work or do they object? 
 
 (All those present said they agreed with Mendoza in their willingness to 
 accept and make the best of the situation.) 
 
 QUESTION: Are the pastors entirely in agreement with the recent limi¬ 
 tation of the religious press? 
 
 ANSWER: You misunderstand. The government is only enforcing the 
 law of 1917. No restriction or regulation of the press has molested the 
 Protestant people. 
 
 QUESTION: Why did the government feel it necessary to forbid com¬ 
 ments on governmental action? 
 
 ANSWER: Because Catholics have made obedience to their own rules so 
 compelling and the authority of a priest is so undisputed that comment by the 
 Catholic papers would be compelling to every Catholic without any chance for 
 questioning. 
 
 QUESTION: Do any of the Protestant ministers write for the daily 
 press? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a Catholic political party? 
 
 ANSWER: That party is dormant but they have their own officials and 
 are waiting for an opportunity. When Madero came into power they came 
 forward and organized the National Catholic Party, which is still organized, but 
 they are not before the public. The Constitution forbids any political party 
 having a religious name. 
 
 QUESTION: Why did the Constitution prohibit the clergy from having 
 the power of voting? 
 
 ANSWER: They wanted to allow for real democracy and a free expres¬ 
 sion of opinion. The opinion of the priests here is accepted blindly by every 
 Catholic and every Catholic would votje with the priests. 
 
 Dr. Andres Osuna, distinguished educator, formerly governor of the State 
 of Tamaulipas, spoke as follows: 
 
 The religious situation in Mexico is to be properly understood through 
 knowing the historical background. When the conquerers came, the priests 
 came with them with religious authority. When they appealed to the Pope 
 for authority to possess the new world, the Pope divided it between Spain and 
 Portugal. The Concordat provided authority to Spanish kings to recommend 
 
 — 14 — 
 
the clergy to office; thus the king and the Catholic church in Spain were 
 brought together. When the work was first begun here, really great mission¬ 
 aries were sent over. But their work was not continued. After three hundred 
 years, very little result of their efforts could be seen. The chief aim soon 
 became that of keeping the colonies obedient to Spain. 
 
 The entire matter of education was turned over to the church. Though 
 there were five or six colleges in Mexico City, the first being as early as 1553, 
 the work was limited. As educators, the church had all the money they 
 wanted—real estate and endowments. Authorities say that the church owned 
 about 50 per cent of all the real estate, some placing the percentage as high 
 as 66 2/3. In spite of the enormous wealth of the church, 300 years of the 
 colonial regime left about one-half of one per cent of the people with the 
 ability to read and write, even though the natives were eager and able to learn. 
 Of six million people, about thirty thousand knew how to read and write. They 
 had the religious instruction of the church, but they had not been taught 
 Christianity. The majority of the people were just as pagan as when the 
 Spaniards came into the country. 
 
 Relics of Indian architecture, including the Aztec calender and other 
 pieces of sculpture, were unearthed, collected, and placed on exhibit in Mexico 
 City. It was noticed that some of the natives, the full blooded Indians, came 
 always late in the afternoon to see the exhibits.* Upon investigation, it was 
 learned that they came to worship the idols and to bring offerings. They were, 
 after three hundred years, worshipping their old Indian idols. This is only an 
 illustration of the religious conditions of the masses. 
 
 The church was closely connected with the Spanish government. The 
 archbishop was a great power allied with the viceroy. But when the War of 
 Independence came, there was a division of the clergy, Spain decreed that all 
 officers in the church should be selected from those born and educated in 
 Spain, so as to prevent Mexico from slipping away from Spanish influence. The 
 well educated and intelligent native born had no chance at all. The lower 
 clergy was in sympathy with the revolution, but the higher officers cursed the 
 movement and persecuted the sympathizers. There was a tremendous conflict 
 between parts of the clergy during the War of Independence. 
 
 The Spanish passed the Constitution of 1812 restricting the church and 
 confiscating part of its property, but the law was put away when Ferdinand 
 returned to power. Later the king of Spain was forced to acknowledge the 
 Constitution. The priests here, seeing that they would lose their property, 
 entered into an agreement with Iturbide to get him appointed chief of the 
 colonial army here and to bring about the independence of the colonies in order 
 to save the church, but not in order to help the colonies. The church was, 
 therefore, left as a state church and the same hierarchy was left as ruler of 
 the country, in spite of the fact that for more than ten years they had been 
 fighting the movement of independence. 
 
 Then we began an independent life and tried to organize parties. There 
 was organized a Conservative Party, which was a church party, and a Liberal 
 Party. The church stood always in the way cf the Liberal Party. The Mex¬ 
 ican independent government sought a contract from the Pope to have the 
 same privileges that Spain had. The bishops protested against the congress 
 and declared that they could not accept such a contract. They were willing to 
 be under the government of Spain, but not under the independent government 
 here. The Liberal element then passed the Constitution of 1857 restricting the 
 privileges of the church and establishing' the basis of a modern democratic 
 government. From 1821 to 1857 the Liberal Party had always to fight revolu¬ 
 tions fomented by the other party when such party was not in control. Then 
 
 — 15 — 
 
came the struggle between 1858, '59, and ’60, which is known as the War of 
 Reformation because the Reform Laws were enacted, making it clear that the 
 church and state must be separated. When defeated, the church party sent to 
 Europe and tried to establish a monarchy under Maximilian, supported by a 
 French army. 
 
 When the long administration of General Diaz w^as established, he follow’^ed 
 closely the platform of the Liberal party, but later he gave up altogether to 
 the Catholic church and allowed them to break the law's any way they pleased. 
 :• When the revolution was started under Madero in 1910, the church sup¬ 
 ported the dictatorial government of General Diaz. After Madero was elected 
 president, they fomented a conspiracy to overthrow him. Finally General 
 Hnerta took hold of the government and killed Madero and Vice President 
 Pina Suarez. Of course, the church was backing him up and continued to 
 do So when the whole nation rose in arms against the usurper and the assasin 
 general. 
 
 The three or four years of civil war made the struggle between the church 
 and the revolutionary movement more bitter. In any split of the revolution¬ 
 ary forces, the church always supported the group which was trying to re¬ 
 establish the old regime. Therefore, the church was in the field of politics 
 and of civil war, always standing for the reactionary movement. 
 
 After the revolutionaries controlled the country, they had a public election 
 of. a congress. The whole nation convened at Queretero and enacted the 
 new Constitution of 1917. In that Constitution, they took up all the laws 
 which had been a part of our Constitution since 1867 restricting the activities 
 of the church, and added a few more to correct all the evils in the church 
 field and to secure the complete independence of the church and the state. 
 
 i The church has always had, in Mexico, a political program more promi¬ 
 nent than its religious program. Today we have the government endeavoring 
 to put down the political working of the church, enforcing the laws to prevent 
 any church from getting political control. There is no religious persecution 
 at all. 
 
 Questions and Answers 
 
 QUESTION: What particular political program of the Catholic church is 
 it that has so recently caused the government to take a stand? 
 
 ANSWER: The Catholics desire to put down the Constitution. They do 
 not believe in the separation of the church and the state. They want the state 
 under the control of the church. They wish to have the Catholic doctrine 
 taught in all schools. The government has made regulations restricting all 
 private schools to counteract this. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you feel that the government thought the Catholic 
 
 people were beginning a revolution? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. It was found that in five or six cities a revolution was 
 being organized to overthrow the present government. One Catholic told me 
 that the priests and the nuns were causing all this trouble. One nun said that 
 they were working to overthrow this government. These are just examples of 
 information which I, personally, have received from my friends. 
 
 QUESTION: Are any of the priests supporting the government? 
 
 ANSWER: They do not dare challenge the power of the church. 
 
 QUESTION: How many of the priests in Mexico City are of Mexican 
 birth? 
 
 ANSWER: At present, I think, all are. It is the same with the bishops. 
 
 QUESTION: Are any of the priests at heart favorable to the procedure? 
 
 — 16 — 
 
ANSWER: I believe so, but they do not say so publicly. Many Catholics 
 are also in harmony with the government. You will see in the parade next 
 Sunday some of those who wish to show themselves favorable to the govern¬ 
 ment. The majority of the Catholics do not believe in the program of the 
 higher clergy of the church. 
 
 QUESTION: Are there any leaders among the Mexican Catholic priests 
 who would go so far as to advocate the government against the church? 
 
 ANSWER: I believe if the bishops withdraw all priests from the churches 
 as they plan to do next Saturday, it will be shown that there are many who 
 really do not want to obey the bishops, but to abide by the law. Of course, 
 the Catholic discipline is very rigid and strong, though many do not agree 
 with it. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the Catholics more favorable to the Protestants now? 
 
 ANSWER: I believe they are. They at least acknowledge that we are a 
 part of Christianity and do not call us heretics. We feel that we may expect 
 a great increase in the Protestant church in the next few years. Education 
 has probably helped the Protestants. 
 
 QUESTION: In what parts of Mexico have there been attempts to hatch 
 plots against the Government? 
 
 ANSWER: In Aguascalientes, Durango, Queretero, Chihuahua, Jalisco, 
 and in Puebla at one time. 
 
 QUESTION: How is oil connected with the cause of the Protestants? 
 
 ANSWER: The oil question has brought about all the foment. Oil in¬ 
 vestors want laws more suitable to their own methods of carrying on business. 
 They are constantly bringing about agitation. The Catholics have not been 
 able to overthrow the government, working alcne. Now oil has offered them 
 money to assist them in carrying out their plans and the conflict has come to 
 a head. Oil is encouraged by the church and Ihe church by oil interests. The 
 conflict between the church and state would have been there just the same, 
 if oil interests had not entered; but there would have been delay in bringing 
 the matter to an issue. 
 
 QUESTION: Could the priests go ahead with their services if they 
 
 wished? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. It is practically an ecclesiastical strike. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the opinion of the Catholics in the United States? 
 
 ANSWER: They do not know conditions here. They are led to believe it 
 is religious persecution. A Catholic clergyman in the United States said that 
 if conditions in Mexico were explained to the Catholics in the United States, 
 they would understand and they would welcome the explanation. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you believe the governm.ent will weather this crisis? 
 
 ANSWER: They have perfect control of the whole situation. There will 
 be local difficulties, however. One Catholic told me that already armed troops 
 were ready to protect some churches and to defend them against the commit¬ 
 tees to be sent by the government to take charge of them, turning them over 
 to trustees appointed to take care of the church properties, keep the buildings 
 open for the use of worshippers, prevent desecrations, etc. 
 
 QUESTION: What about the liberal group among the Catholics who have 
 left the Catholic church without yet accepting the Protestant faith? 
 
 ANSWER: They are not making great progress. They lack leadership. 
 It is possible that they may gain some ground during this strike. 
 
 QUESTION: Are some of the priests agnostic? 
 
 ANSWER: 99 per cent of the priests in Mexico are agnostic; every one 
 to whom I have talked personally does not believe what he professes, but holds 
 to his position as a business. It is his duty, his business to teach the people' 
 
 17 — 
 
certain doctrines, however little faith he himself may have in them. They do 
 not know whether there is a God or not, but they profess to believe. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the government sending commissioners to the churches 
 Sunday? 
 
 ANSWER: They will take charge of the churches Sunday, appointing 
 groups of ten men to take care of the buildings. The Archbishop says that 
 he will, turn the church over to “the .faithful”. The government says the 
 churches must be in charge of committees chosen by the government. The 
 government offered to leave the churches in charge of committees selected by 
 the membership, from their own congregations. Some of the churches complied 
 and made the appointments; others refused. The only thing the bishop has 
 done is to “turn it over to the faithful”. Consequently the government says 
 that the committees shall be of its own choice. 
 
 QUESTION: Does any law place the control of church property in the 
 hands of the congregations? ♦ 
 
 ANSWER: The government says the property belongs to the government, 
 and that they will put it into the hands of the group of people selected and 
 accepted by the government. It is willing to allow the church to select the 
 committee, but not the bishop. The Protestant church is obeying. The com¬ 
 mittee does not have control over the income, but only exists to take care of 
 the church, to be responsible for its furnishings, etc. Systematic inventories 
 are to be made so that all properties may be kept up with. They are to keep 
 the buildings clean and in proper condition for the worship of the people. The 
 Catholic church will still receive its revenues. The committee in charge of each 
 church is to be chosen from its own congregation. 
 
 QUESTION: Will there be difficulty in finding men who are willing to 
 serve on such committees? 
 
 ANSWER: Not in the case of Protestants. In many places committees 
 are already being formed. 
 
 QUESTION: Does every church have a well defined limit of pastorate? 
 
 ANSWER: I do not know how it is in Mexico City, but there are some 
 cities in which it is true in theory. They may have several priests in the 
 same church, however. 
 
 QUESTION: Why does the government limit the number of churches? 
 
 ANSWER: The government limited the number of churches in order to 
 protect the people. The government considers too many churches a burden 
 upon the people. 
 
 QUESTION: What does the government plan to do with the property of 
 the closed churches? 
 
 ANSWER: They have, in the past, used them for other public uses, such 
 as libraries. 
 
 QUESTION: How many churches will be closed in Mexico City next Sun¬ 
 day because of the withdrawal of priests? 
 
 ANSWER: Eighty-two, the local papers say. 
 
 QUESTION: Can the government confiscate church property when they 
 please? 
 
 ANSWER: Church properties were confiscated in the laws of 1859, but 
 there has not been a rigid enforcement of the laws. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the government own the Protestant'churches? 
 
 ANSWER: Theoretically, yes. In 1874 there was passed a law by which 
 local congregations could own local church property. Many were incorporated 
 under this law. These congregatipns may own their own church property 
 according to the opinion of certain government officials. As a general prin¬ 
 ciple the government can confiscate the property of the churches; in fact, has 
 
 — 18 — 
 
already done so, though the confiscatory laws have not been entirely enforced. 
 But there are many, many details of the law that remain yet to be worked out. 
 Much work is being done now toward working out the various details. 
 
 QUESTION: Suppose a small church desires to sell out and move; can 
 they sell their property? 
 
 ANSWER: Probably, with the permission of the government. I do not 
 know exactly that. 
 
 QUESTION: What about starting a new church? 
 
 ANSWER: I do not know. The Constitution states that any new church 
 belongs to the government. A new church can be built by submitting to the 
 legal requirements of the government. But even then the building is in control 
 of the government. The congregation must guarantee the use of the church all 
 the time. It cannot be allowed to stand idle. The Constitution provides that 
 the church can be used under legal restrictions. Much of this remains to be 
 arranged. The government can close a church if it does not conform to the 
 regulations. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the government have control of the income of the 
 church and its general finances? 
 
 ANSWER: I believe so. Nothing has been said to the contrary. 
 
 QUESTION: Do the churches own property outside of the church build¬ 
 ing? 
 
 ANSWER: Such ownership is forbidden by law and the property can be 
 confiscated if the ownership is discovered. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the relation of “oil to incense”? Do you know of 
 the situation in Venezuela? The relation of the government of the United 
 States to the dictatorship in Venezuela, the oil interests, the Catholics, etc.? 
 
 ANSWER: We know how they have been using money here freely to 
 carry out their program of developing the oil industry. Much has been spent 
 in bribes. Private meetings have been held in the United States by men in¬ 
 terested in the oil industry in Mexico, in which meetings the government of 
 Mexico was discussed. The Catholics and the oil interests of Mexico are 
 working hand in hand in the United States. Most of the oil companies have 
 accepted the existing regulations. They are not acting; they are waiting. I 
 do not know anything about Venezuela. 
 
 QUESTION: Do any of the religious orders conduct secondary and pre¬ 
 paratory schools? 
 
 ANSWER: No school can be in the hands of a church or the minister of 
 any church. They may teach religion, in the secondary schools, but they must 
 not be organized under the church. Ministers may teach even in primary 
 schools. Churches may hold Sunday schools. 
 
 QUESTION: Can any non-Mexican born man speak at all in the churches 
 at the present time? 
 
 ANSWER: The addition to the penal code gives definitions for the exer¬ 
 cise of the ministry, which prevents non-Mexican born ministers speaking in 
 the churches or in places which are regarded as church property. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the Catholic church oppose the circulation of Bibles 
 among its people? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes and no. They claim that they recommend the circula¬ 
 tion of Bibles here, but the price is very high. They say, “We have the 
 Bibles”, but the price says, “No”. 
 
 QUESTION: Do they oppose the sale of Bibles by the Protestants? 
 
 ANSWER: It would be useless. The people are buying the Bible and 
 the demand is greater than the supply. The government made a special edi¬ 
 tion of the Gospels, recently, for libraries and schools. The government en- 
 
 —19 
 
courages the circulation of Bibles. The Catholics want only their own Bible, 
 published with notes. 
 
 H. Marroguin, a representative of the American Bible Society, answered 
 the following questions: 
 
 QUESTION: How large is the circulation of the Bible in Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: We sell about 33,000 volumes a year. About one-third are 
 New Testaments. The Gospels sell at five centavos each. A new Catholic 
 version of the Bible has just been published in El Paso. It sells for $3.00, 
 American money. Our cheapest Bible is sold for $1.15, Mexican currency. 
 
 QUESTION: Is thei*e any difference between the Catholic and the 
 
 Protestant versions? 
 
 ANSWER: The Catholic authorized version is published with its own 
 notes. There may be some difference. It is a handy volume. We shall give 
 one to our colporteurs, to show the Catholics they do not know their own 
 book. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the Catholic church publish any Bible without notes? 
 
 ANSWER: No, even the New Testament is published with notes. 
 
 QUESTION: When the Protestants give the gospel story to the natives, 
 do; they appear to hear it for the first time? 
 
 ANSWER: The priests have not taught them except to a small degree. 
 The Virgin and the saints are given more emphasis. The recent administration 
 has increased the interest in the Bible. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a translation of the Bible into the various Indian 
 languages? 
 
 ANSWER: No. At one time there were a few Gospels published in the 
 Maya and Tarasco. Our government wants to educate the Indian in Spanish. 
 
 Dr. Osuna resumed answering questions as follows: 
 
 QUESTION: Do you think the closing of the churches Sunday will re¬ 
 sult in riots? 
 
 ANSWER: I do not. There may be, in isolated cases. 
 
 QUESTION: What will the average illiterate Catholic believe about the 
 closing of churches? 
 
 ANSWER: He will blame the government. He has been taught that, in 
 order to create a feeling of animosity toward the government. But there are 
 many Catholics who do not believe all that the priests teach. 
 
 QUESTION: What is an interdict? 
 
 ANSWER: The Pope suspends all religious services. It means that 
 
 when af country is under an interdict, no rites can be performed. It has never 
 been used effectively in Mexico. 
 
 Mr. Mendoza later dictated a supplementary statement for inclusion in 
 the records of the group. It was as follows: 
 
 The most common obstacles to Christian work among us are peculiar to 
 all Roman Catholic countries of Spanish origin: superstition, ignorance and 
 prejudice. Of course, all of these you find in every heathen country, but the 
 opposition we meet in every Roman Catholic country is of a very peculiar 
 type, especially in Mexico. This makes our work show rather slow results. 
 
 Two main obstacles we find: hfirst, the attitude of the lower classes. 
 With them the opposition is obstinate, hard, and many times, due to the 
 ignorance and bigotry that prevails among them, their opposition takes violent 
 forms. For this reason, many of our preachers and members in the country 
 are giving their lives for their new faith. Rom.an Catholics are being educated 
 
 — 20 — 
 
in a school of hate and contempt toward anybody who doesn’t believe as the 
 Catholics do, and they cannot find a more unworthy and despicable man than 
 a Protestant. The Roman Catholic is always ready to believe strange stories 
 about Protestants and their religious meetings. 
 
 The opposition among the higher classes, not only among the wealthy but 
 among the intellectual takes on another form: indifference, contempt, and 
 even scorn. We have not been able to reach the better class, not for lack of 
 definite effort or for lack of men of real ability, but because the higher 
 classes are full of prejudice against us, like the common people but for entirely 
 different reasons. To the better classes, the Protestants in Mexico deserve 
 all contempt because they have accepted a foreign religion, a “made in the 
 U. S.” religion, leaving off the religion of our fathers, the “only” church. The 
 national pride is moreover touched when they assert that we Protestant people 
 are only helping to carry on the “pacific conquest” of Mexico by Anglo-Saxons, 
 that we are traitors to the home land, that we have sold ourselves to American 
 gold. Even among the better classes it is accepted as a fact that we give 
 money to every convert, that the American missionary goes to the homes of 
 the poor people with pockets full of money for distribution among the families 
 and in this way to secure new converts to our faith. How can they believe 
 such nonsense? We cannot find out. This is .a charge made against Protestant 
 missionaries from the beginning of the work fifty years ago. What missionary 
 society could be rich enough to give away thousands of dollars to thousands of 
 converts in Mexico and in other countries? 
 
 Among the wealthy and the intellectual are many whom we count as our 
 friends. Visiting the United States, many would attend Protestant meetings 
 and even be known as Protestants, but in Mexico they don’t do this because 
 they would lose their social standing in uniting with the Protestants. Perhaps 
 they go to mass, not because they believe in Catholicism but because of social 
 reasons, to escort the wife and the daughter. To go to the Protestants would 
 be to degrade themselves. They are like Nicodemus, friendly and appreciative 
 in private, but never in the open. They praise our work and always give a 
 good word, but this is as far as they go. 
 
 But there is always a bright side. Though the higher and the lower 
 classes find it very difficult to accept the preaching in our churches, they are 
 ready to accept the teaching in our schools. Before long they find that our 
 schools are the right kind for their children; they know that we pay first atten¬ 
 tion to the training of character; that moral education is outstanding in our 
 work; and soon the most prejudiced goes to our side praising our schools as 
 the very best, little caring about our singing of hymns, prayers and religious 
 meetings. Our schools are full of pupils, every place being taken by anxious 
 students who afterward become our most effective advertisers. They don’t 
 take time to explain why we get results in the character of our pupils; they 
 simply recognize the fact and praise and support our schools. At the end we 
 hope that our schools will help to create the right attitude to our churches. 
 
 I N a second interview with Dr. Osuna August 4, he answered questions from 
 
 the group, as follows: 
 
 QUESTION: It has been stated that the Roman Catholic church has al¬ 
 ways had a great influence over the poorer classes, the Indians. Now that they 
 shall not have the church to look up to, is there anything that will take the 
 place of the church as a guide to hold these poor people? 
 
 ANSWER: The Indian has not been helped morally by the church. I 
 know towns where the church had not taught them anything. They did not 
 know how to read even their prayers. The church certainly has not given them 
 
 — 21 — 
 
any moral teaching. Yes, perhaps they are very devout. There are pickpockets 
 here in the jails; some of them have been caught ten, fifteen or even twenty 
 times. They, too, are very devout, but that does not seem to stop them from 
 stealing. 
 
 The Mexican government has been trying to teach them morals. It has 
 provided lectures in the schools and everywhere they have been trying to 
 establish moral standards. In regard to the building up of the Indians, the 
 government is establishing schools for them and in these schools morals are 
 taught. How much has the teaching of the church helped the people? From 
 a practical point of view the teachings of the church have not helped the people. 
 Another thing about the Indian towns. Most of them are independent of the 
 church. The priests go there once a year only. When they come that one time 
 they baptize babies, confirm children and marry and get all the money out 
 of them they can. I have been in the state of Oaxaca, where the population is 
 mostly Indian, and where the priests only come once a year. The only thing 
 I can see that they have taught them real well is to be hypocrites. 
 
 QUESTION: What do you think about the report given us that Calles said 
 that he had met Jesus Christ three times and had slapped him in the face each 
 time? 
 
 ANSWER: That is a lie. 
 
 QUESTION: A lady said it had been reported to her by the person who 
 had heard Calles say it. 
 
 ANSWER: Well, I do not believe it. I think it is only another one of the 
 lies that are told. 
 
 QUESTION: It is stated that neither the President nor any of the members 
 of his cabinet are Catholics. 
 
 ANSWER: If they state that not a single member of the cabinet is a 
 Catholic, that also is not true. Mr. Pani, the Minister of Finance, is a Roman 
 Catholic; and some of the others are also Catholics that I know personally. 
 President Calles may not personally be connected with any church, but all of 
 his family are Roman Catholics. My brother’s family are close friends of 
 Mr. and Mrs. Calles and they were invited last Sunday to go to their place for 
 luncheon with them. My sister-in-law was sick and she and my brother could 
 not go, but their daughters, my nieces, went there. One of the President’s 
 daughters is in a convent near Los Angeles. They were discussing there last 
 Sunday in the President’s home all these questions of the day. I know the 
 families of many of the other cabinet members and they too are Catholics. 
 The wife of Mr. Saenz is a Catholic, although he is a Protestant. Many of the 
 other members may not be Catholics themselves, but their families are Catholics 
 at least. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you think the church has meant nothing to the millions 
 of Indians? ^ 
 
 ANSWER: O, yes, it has been a tremendous curse to them. When the 
 Spaniards came here there were about 18,000,000 people. The church came here 
 and was entrusted to protect the lives of the Indians; then the population was re¬ 
 duced to 6,000,000. They will not admit responsibility for the killing of all those 
 millions. But they certainly helped. The Indians died by the millions just from 
 exhaustion, and the church was a member to the business. As for education, 
 they had all the money they wanted and all the propei’ty. After three hundred 
 years, we found they did not educate quite one per cent; not quite one per cent 
 could read and write. The Catholic Church had practically abandoned the small 
 Indian villages, so you can see how much they were doing for the poor Indians. 
 What do you think about this? In a great many places, owners of haciendas 
 paid the priest to come to the church which they had and to talk to these peons 
 
 — 22 — 
 
and get their confessions. When these poor people would go to confession, 
 they would tell the priest whatever they had done, and then the priest informed 
 the master. This happened all over the country. In other words, the church 
 and the priest was used to exploit the people. 
 
 QUESTION: How has the Catholic church mixed in politics? 
 
 ANSWER: In many instancs, it has been very difficult to distinguish the 
 political work of the church from the religious work of the church. Granting 
 that they did not go into Mexican politics, there was always the work of the 
 church in politics. Since the government enacted the religious laws, they have 
 not been minding the government. They never have a religious meeting with¬ 
 out discussing politics. I was in the second city of the Republic, San Luis 
 Potosi, a little less than three years ago. After I had been there a few days, 
 I was told by a friend that the leading Catholic priest in that city was going 
 to come to see me. He came to see me. I found I had known him before. We 
 talked about different things, and then very enthusiastically and very plainly he 
 asked me if I could not do something to help the church. He wondered whether 
 I was in a position to do something. He wanted me to call on the archbishop. 
 “Now, let me tell you,” he said, “I have been depending upon you a long 
 time, ever since we had that Eucharistic Congress, how to get a public man into 
 office to support the Roman Catholic Church. We have discussed the matter. 
 Many thought we would have to elect a man who was a member of the church 
 and others stated that we would just have to elect someone independent of the 
 church and others thought other ways and then I arose and said we must not 
 try to put a Catholic candidate in. With a candidate who is not a Catholic 
 the President will give us more attention and we will have more power.” 
 
 QUESTION: When were the political rights withdrawn from the priests 
 and why? 
 
 ANSWER: They were withdrawn from them in the laws of reform in 
 1859 and in an amendment to the Constitution in 1874. Only the political 
 rights were withdrawn; they could hold property then. The priests could not 
 be elected for public office. And all other ministers of churches are in the same 
 position. 
 
 QUESTION: Why was that? 
 
 ANSWER: If they had the power to hold office and to legislate, they 
 might do almost anything. They could draw groups without thought of the 
 merits of the candidates. Therefore the priests were not given the vote. If the 
 priests had the vote, there would be no freedom. If these priests had the vote 
 and could govern all these people under them, there would be no democracy 
 in a short time at all. You see they might use their influence, and that was 
 the idea of it. 
 
 QUESTION: Are Protestant ministers in the same condition? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. 
 
 QUESTION: If the Protestant ministers are registered and conform to the 
 laws, why don’t the Catholic priests do it? The Archbishop stated that because 
 the laws had never recognized these priests as citizens, they could not now 
 register? 
 
 ANSWER: That is a very crude excuse; nobody believes that. No foreign¬ 
 er here can be elected to fill any office; and if elected he could not fill the 
 office. But does that mean foreigners cannot obey the laws and be submissive 
 to the laws? 
 
 QUESTION: How is the Constitution amended? 
 
 ANSWER: The Constitution is amended by Congress, with either the 
 President or any one of the congressmen introducing the bill into Congress. 
 Then it goes to the senate, it is referred to the legal committee for .study, it is 
 
 — 23 — 
 
again referred to the senate where it has to be passed by a ceutain majority, 
 and then it has to be ratified as well by a certain majority of the lower house. 
 
 QUESTION: Have there been any amendments? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, one since the new Constitution was enacted. 
 
 QUESTION: We were told that the government has been doing every¬ 
 thing it could to injure the church. 
 
 ANSWER: I am sorry Catholics have been taught to lie on religious 
 subjects. 
 
 QUESTION: It is further stated that the leaders defending the church, 
 without having committed any offenses whatsoever, except that they were 
 attempting to defend the church, have been imprisoned, attacked, and treated 
 in a shameless manner. 
 
 ANSWER: That is not true; they are only lying. The main leaders work¬ 
 ing for the church were all from the Society for the Defense of Religious 
 Freedom. They were organized to work for the defense of the church, but 
 that was not all that they did. They had been working for the overthrow of the 
 national government. What they had been doing was getting out circulars to 
 the people, telling them not to obey the law and to paralyze economic life. 
 
 QUESTION: Is it true that a priest as a private individual may not hold 
 property? 
 
 ANSWER: That is true; nor may he inherit property from anybody, he 
 cannot be assigned as an heir. He cannot have property of any kind. 
 
 QUESTION: We understood this morning that the church had not been in 
 politics for many years. Is thati true? And that they had no property? 
 
 ANSWER: Theoretically so. As an organization the church has not been. 
 But they have an organization that is under the direct control of Archbishop 
 Mora y del Rio in which he has continually attempted to dictate and to meddle 
 in the politics of the country. I can give you the reasons I know it. During 
 the last of Carranza’s administration they organized. They worked very hard 
 for Bonillas, to be president of Mexico. I was elected on the executive commit¬ 
 tee at that time. I had private advice that Archbishop Mora y del Rio was 
 very anxious to talk with me and other members of the committee about cer¬ 
 tain, matters in regard to the Catholic church. We were asked to come to the 
 headquarters of this organization. I was one of a sub-committee appointed to 
 call on the President at that time concerning the political request of the 
 Archbishop. 
 
 QUESTION: Tell us briefly what different parties there are in the 
 
 Chamber of Deputies? 
 
 ANSWER: There is the labor party, which is very strong, and then there 
 is what is called the Liberals. There are the agrarians, and they make a big 
 group but they are not one of the political parties. We organize committees 
 that work in different parts of the country for one candidate or the other. 
 They will probably have hundreds of these committees all over the country. 
 
 QUESTION: How do the conservative elements work; where the radical; 
 are they in harmony sometimes? 
 
 ANSWER: They work in these various committees all over the country 
 for the different candidates, according to the candidate they represent. 
 
 QUESTION: What was that party the Catholic church organized to com¬ 
 bat the agrarian movement?, 
 
 ANSWER: I don’t remember; they are very active in certain states. 
 
 QUESTION: Wasn’t there an organization by the owners of the land 
 against this agrarian movement? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, there was an organization of the hacendados to combat 
 the agrarian movement, about five years ago. Mr. de la Huerta’s revolutionary 
 
 — 24 — 
 
movement was backed by the church, that is, by the clerical element; and in a 
 great many of the previous disorders like when Villa was active. He got up some 
 of these movements and was backed by the church. The church was only trying 
 to overthrow the government. They used their influence against these reforms 
 and advancs in radicalism. 
 
 QUESTION: I understand by the American vice consul here that the 
 President can be practically a dictator; that he can act as if there were neither 
 a congress nor a constitution in existence. 
 
 ANSWER: There is a misunderstanding by the commercial attache. I 
 studied political economy and economics at Vanderbilt University. Before estab¬ 
 lishing the new government here there was a great deal of talk in regard to 
 reform of the tax system. They wanted to change the whole system of taxation. 
 There could not be found a ma nat the time in the whole congress who could 
 draft this matter and discuss the situation intelligently. They didn’t have the 
 experts who could plan and take charge of it, so the only solution was to 
 authorize the President to study the system, to get experts who could plan and 
 recommend a system and make the necessary changes in what they already had. 
 Congress just authorized the president to put this matter through by these 
 experts. Even today in this work they have two or three experts here. They 
 are Americans. At least, I know two or three who are Americans. They are 
 preparing these budgets for the government and then working out the whole 
 system. The government finds it easier to do the work in this way than in any 
 other, as they have no experts who can do it. When the whole matter is studied 
 out the president approves the report and then reports the whole thing to the 
 congress. Congress has the power to approve all this, but since they do not 
 have the experts to look after this work, it is turned over to the president. 
 The president has that power on account of the present conditions of the 
 country. For instance, the income on oil. We have coming in some thirty 
 millions from that alone and so we need experts to study that matter and de¬ 
 cide abou*t the taxation. In regard to other laws, congress had many plans, 
 drafts, and laws ready for discussion. I don’t know whether you know any¬ 
 thing about the Latin mind. We have, say, 260 congressmen and probably 400 
 articles to be passed. Well, they read number one and all of these men have 
 to make speeches. They try for three months to make speeches on these 
 different laws and then finally they just authorize the president to pass these 
 laws. The president then has to report to the chamber; he has to report any 
 addition or change he has made to the penal code. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the budget have to be approved by congress before 
 going into effect? Has there been any case when a congress has exercised a 
 veto on the will of the president? 
 
 ANSWER: The budget has to be approved. There have never been any 
 repudiations. They have always approved the powers of the president. This 
 is my own personal opinion. I know the conditions here. I am not in politics, 
 but I think it is a thousand times better that the president do this work. 
 
 QUESTION: In regard to employment in Mexico, how about the discharg¬ 
 ing of an employee without giving notice? Does an employer have to give 
 notice, does he have to pay the employee three months’ wages? Why doesn’t 
 the government have to pay three months’ wages when discharging an 
 employee? 
 
 ANSWER: I am a member of the Association of Printers of Mexico 
 City, a member of the executive committee and chairman of the labor commit¬ 
 tee. I have to state that almost every night we have to meet in order to 
 take up the disagreements presentd to us. After hearing all the facts in the 
 case, the committee then decides the questions, and whenever a working man has 
 
 — 25 — 
 
been dismissed for a just cause, we do not pay him his three months’ wages. 
 But some of these, of course, really have just cause. We do not pay the 
 three months’ wages when a man is dismissed for bad conduct; whenever the 
 man can prove that there is not just cause then we do have to pay the three 
 months. 
 
 In a third interview with Dr. Osuna August 6, he spoke as follows: 
 
 After the struggle between the church and the state started here by the 
 Constitution of 1857 and the Refonn Laws of 1859, the government passed 
 laws restricting the activities of the church and declaring some principles: the 
 submission of the church to the authority of the state; liberty of education; 
 liberty of the press; liberty to worship. The church did not accept these prin¬ 
 ciples because it has been uniformly opposed to all these principles. They 
 undertook the obligation to fight these principles. The government started 
 schools, but they were opposed by the church. In these schools, they tried to 
 teach these principles. The church has been trying to control all this work 
 throughout the country. When I was at the head of the schools here in 
 Mexico City, there was brought to my attention some text books published and 
 taught by the church in which the church was systematically teaching the 
 young against these principles, an action decidedly hostile. 
 
 That was from 1915 to 1918. We at once required them to change the 
 text books. But the government had seen that the only way to control the 
 situation was to stop religious instruction in the primary schools, because in 
 this instruction these principles were neglected. Why this antagonism to reli¬ 
 gious instruction? Well, because, the Catholic Church simply wouldn’t mind 
 the government. I have kept my boys in the public schools. I have never 
 found these public schools were detrimental to them. The outcome of the 
 work shows that they were very much benefitted. Later my oldest boy was 
 in the School of Engineering. , There were only thirty boys in his course, and 
 only three boys of the thirty passed. My boy was one of the three who passed- 
 My boy finished and gained the most responsible position they had vacant. 
 He never made very high grades. In fact, he made rather low grades. To 
 me, it is only a question of character. Well, the question is, have the Catholics 
 as good as we have? The law now is that no religion shall be taught in the 
 primary schools. I think this was needed. I have evidence of this. There are 
 a great many Catholic teachers in the public schools, probably 90 per cent. 
 They have always shown a disposition to spoil anything for the government. 
 Many teachers do not care to nor will they teach effectively what they should 
 do, because they think they will be doing something against the church. Ac¬ 
 cording to the law, no one in the first six years in our public schools may be 
 taught religion. That is a mistake, for I think the most critical period of life 
 is around 12 to 16 or 17 years of age. 
 
 As for the number of Catholic schools you have asked me about, the 
 government has established three thousand schools, I believe, within the last 
 two or three years; of course many of them are only one teacher schools, but 
 they are schools. Now, about these Catholic schools, they claimed they had a 
 great many all over the country, but when the government tried to find some 
 of them they told about, they could not find them. I have travelled a great 
 deal all over the country. The teachers in the public schools at first were not 
 as good as your teachers in the states, but they are better every year because 
 the government is training more teachers and sending them out to teach these 
 schools; and the old teachers are also getting more training. But it is very 
 hard to get trained teachers. The schools are running though. 
 
 I travelled Jn several sections of the country just to see these public 
 
schools two years ago. I found in some of those places very good schools 
 indeed. Many persons are ready to make statements, but they haven’t seen 
 anything. I can be positive of everything, about everything that I saw and 
 have reported in regard to the schools. It is true that there are many draw¬ 
 backs. I do not agree with everything they are doing, that is, with their 
 methods. 
 
 QUESTION: Are there not teachers sent out to these different places 
 to help the country teachers with their problems and to improve conditions? 
 
 ANSWER: The traveling teachers, yes. They started that some three or 
 four years ago, sending teachers specially prepared to help country teachers, 
 sending them from place to place. They now send out a group of teachers 
 which goes from place to place to the small schools to help the teachers to get 
 in touch with the parents and to teach the local teachers how to do the many 
 things they should do in their schools. There are generally about five in a 
 group. One is an expert on social work; another is a specialist on agriculture; 
 another is sent to teach the women and the girls how to take care of their 
 homes and their children. They come to a town or a small place. They call 
 all the teachers together they can reach from that town; they give their talks 
 and illustrate their work and teach and show them ever3rthing they can. How 
 long do they stay in a place? That depends upon how many teachers they 
 can get together in that place, according to the size of the place too, but they 
 usually stay at least six weeks in a place. 
 
 I know all this because I had a girl in the office of the publishing company. 
 She belonged to one of the Protestant churches of the city. I found out one 
 day she had been engaged to go with one of these groups. I then began to 
 inquire what kind of work they did in these groups so as to learn what benefit 
 it was. Each one has some special thing to teach. This girl was going for the 
 social work. That is the system of these traveling teachers. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you have anything like parent-teachers associations in 
 Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: They have been organizing them in all these local centers. 
 
 QUESTION: I gather from the American Ambassador that foreigners 
 owning land along the border will have to dispose of it the best they can, re¬ 
 gardless of what anyone may choose to offer for it. 
 
 ANSWER: The law is that within an area of sixty-two miles of the 
 border and thirty-miles along the sea coast no foreigner can own land. Any¬ 
 one owning land within those areas will be allowed to keep it until their death; 
 then the heirs must dispose of it at the death of the person who has had this 
 land. Corporations are allowed to hold their lands in these areas for their 
 life-time in Mexico. 
 
 QUESTION: Suppose there is no market for that land, as is said to be 
 true in many cases. For instance, there is Mr. Hearst’s lands. 
 
 ANSWER: Well, they take their own chances. Now, Mr. Hearst never 
 intended to cultivate his land here. He made his investment and he should 
 have seen to that. Of course, if he could not sell, there would not be any 
 difficulties necessarily; it would be im.possible to take his holdings if he had 
 complied with the law; but if he could not sell his land, then there would be a 
 claims commission appointed to take care of this matter. There was another 
 case where the government knew there would be considerable trouble and the 
 government bought the lands from him. I think they will easily handle Mr. 
 Hearst. They will probably handle him in the same way. If he makes an 
 estimate of what he paid for it, the government will have to pay very little. 
 The government may base the price for the land on the value of the land as 
 they estimate it for taxation. 
 
 — 27 — 
 
As I was saying, the government pays for these lands at the value which 
 the owner places on it for taxation, plus 10 per cent. 
 
 QUESTION: How long may the owner hold this land? 
 
 ANSWER: As a private individual, he may hold it until he goes to heaven. 
 
 QUESTION: We understand that if the owner cannot find a buyer, the 
 government may place a value on the land and acquire it. 
 
 ANSWER: No, no one may, only as I said before. 
 
 QUESTION: Where can the exchange of correspondence between the 
 United States and Mexico be found, in regard to this matter? 
 
 ANSWER: Mr. Guy Stevens, in the Mexican Embassy in Washington, keeps 
 full memoranda in English. 
 
 QUESTION: How about damage claims made against Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: Mr. Oliver, a man who had a contract with the railroads here, 
 presented a claim in the American courts for three million dollars. He did not 
 wait for it to be adjusted by the claims commission nor to receive justice here, 
 but pushed it in the American courts. I understand that he offered to accept 
 three hundred thousand and without any of the expenses he had paid. That is, 
 he offered to accept one-tenth of what he was claiming. That will give you an 
 idea of these claims. I have also known of cases where they were asking for 
 two million dollars, and when they came to settle they agreed on two or three 
 thousand dollars. Very interesting cases some of these. 
 
 QUESTION: How about Mrs. Evans’ property? 
 
 ANSWER: I don’t know much about that case. I know that she didn’t 
 want to leave there; they had told her it was not safe. I think she took too 
 many risks when it was unsafe there for her and she had been warned not to 
 Stay there. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there any truth to a statement in a newspaper that to 
 avoid conscription, Mexicans become rebel leaders for awhile? 
 
 ANSWER: Military service is voluntary and subject to contract. The 
 Federal Government makes contracts and it is entirely voluntary. 
 
 QUESTION: Would it compare with what we have in the United States? 
 
 ANSWER: I guess so. In fact they pay and do now very similarly to what 
 they do in the United States. 
 
 QUESTION: What was your experience as Governor of Tamaulipas with 
 the oil companies? 
 
 ANSWER: In General Diaz’s administration, he was in favor of the 
 
 capitalists and they did not pay any tax to speak of. Now, when they have to 
 pay taxes, they are complaining about it. When I went to Tamaulipas as 
 governor, we needed money and I instructed the collector to get to work. There 
 were in that state at that time some big oil companies. There were about four 
 of them, and they had not been paying taxes. I demanded taxes and they 
 refused. In one case we had to take the property of one of those big companies. 
 
 QUESTION: But it is said your taxes are excessive, altogether excessive. 
 
 ANSWER: That was the very argument these oil companies made. They 
 said, “Your taxes are excessive and we cannot afford to pay them.” I said 
 to all the managers of the oil companies, “You select an expert and I will se'ect 
 another one in behalf of the state and the state will pay all the expenses of the 
 two men to go to the United States to investigate similar taxes in the United 
 States. After they have come back from their investigation, I will establish 
 the lowest rate of taxation they find in the United States.” But the oil com¬ 
 panies didn’t want to do that, and then they agreed to pay the rate of taxation 
 which we agreed upon. 
 
 —28 
 
views of the Roman Catholic 
 
 Hierarchy 
 
 T he group had the privilege of submitting a list of written questions to the 
 Council of Roman Catholic bishops, through Bishop Pasqual Diaz, secretary 
 of the Mexican episcopate and spokesman for Archbishop Mora y del. Rio dur¬ 
 ing his illness. The questions were submitted in person by a small sub-commit¬ 
 tee of the group on August 6. Following an interview with Bishop Diaz, of 
 Tabasco, written answers to the questions were given. 
 
 QUESTION: In what respect do the “anti-religious clauses” of the Con¬ 
 stitution make the existence of the Church impossible? 
 
 ANSWER: In that the Constitution assails the divine origin of the church, 
 its object, its ministers and properties, as well as the means which the church 
 uses in every civilized country for its maintenance and growth. 
 
 The judicial function of the churches is explicitly denied; and the federal 
 authorities are authorized to intervene, as designated by the laws (Art. 130), 
 in the worship and in church discipline. 
 
 The priests are not considered as such, but as ordinary professionals (Art. 
 130) and are not given the consideration accorded to the members of other 
 professions. 
 
 They are required to be Mexicans by birth (Art. 130). 
 
 The State legislatures are authorized to determine their maximum number 
 (Art. 130). 
 
 They are prohibited: To exercise their political rights (Arts. 82, 55, 59, 
 130); To exercise their ordinary civil rights (Arts. 3, 27, 130). 
 
 Ownership of property by the church and its ministers is prohibited in re¬ 
 gard to churches (Arts. 27, 130), residences of bishops and curates, seminaries, 
 asylums, colleges, religious houses, institutions of private charity ...... 
 
 (Art. 27). 
 
 Ministers are prevented from inheriting property even from individuals 
 if the latter are not close relatives (Art. 130). 
 
 The church is incapacitated in general from exercising any ownership 
 whatever over real estate or any capital invested in buildings thereon (Art. 
 27). 
 
 All property which the church now actually owns or is possessed of in the 
 name of an intermediary is ordered to pass to the national domain; and legal 
 action of denouncement is authorized in regard to the properties thus made 
 available, proof of presumption being sufficient for founding the denounce¬ 
 ment (Art. 27). 
 
 From the above it is seen that the church is denied the rights which 
 civilization and nature itself grants to all human society above the rank of 
 savages. 
 
 QUESTION: From the letter of the Archbishop we understand that cer¬ 
 tain acts ordered by God are made criminal by the law (of July 2). What 
 are these acts? 
 
 ANSWER: The fulfillment of religious votive offerings, obligatory by the 
 law of God, to whom they are dutifully made. 
 
 Public ownership, approved by God, and at times ordered by HIM. 
 Religious education, or the duty of parents to teach their children, as 
 soon as they reach the age of reason, of the existence of God, the truths of the 
 Catholic faith and the Christian dogma and morality. 
 
 29 — 
 
Also God had ordained that the vocations of religious professions in¬ 
 spired by God shall be fostered with prudence and gentleness. 
 
 The obligation to recognize the right of ownership in anyone who owns 
 property, as that of the church to the property which the people have given to 
 the church and not to the Nation. 
 
 Thus, in various ways but very clearly, all these acts are considered as 
 crimes and made punishable as such. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the status of the present political leaders? Have 
 they been excommunicated? 
 
 ANSWEE: The Mexican Archbishop has not issued any special excom¬ 
 munication whatever in addition to those already indicated for all the world 
 by the general canonical law. The only thing that has been done is the publi¬ 
 cation anew of some of them in the final part of the collective pastoral letter 
 of July 25, 1926. In virtue of these, as may easily be understood, various 
 persons referred to in the questionnaire certainly have incurred excom¬ 
 munication. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the children of Catholics forbidden by the church to at¬ 
 tend the public schools? 
 
 ANSWER: The Bishops have recorded Canon No. 2319, paragraph 4, 
 which reads: Parents, or those acting in their stead, who knowingly cause 
 their children to be instructed or educated in a religion other than the Catholic 
 incur excommunication subject to the decision of the Bishop. 
 
 If in this manner a public or private school is known to be the cause of 
 the moral or religious perversion of a child, the ecclesiastical ag well as the 
 natural law prohibits attendance at such a school, the same in Mexico as in 
 any part of the world. 
 
 QUESTION: How many church schools were closed, and how many 
 
 children were thereby deprived of educational facilities? 
 
 ANSWER: By the dispersion of the proper personnel, approximately 
 
 fifty schools have been closed, with an average attendance of 160 pupils in 
 each one. But there is a well formed threat to close all the Catholic schools 
 in the republic, affecting about 2,000,000 children. 
 
 The mere temporary suspension was caused by the discussion of the law 
 which is now being examined, and although the schools now continue open, 
 nevertheless they will have to be closed if the government takes action which 
 the church cannot submit to. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the extent of property confiscated? 
 
 ANSWER: Virtually all the church property is confiscated, and the 
 
 amount can be learned from what is called the Office of National Properties 
 (Bienes Macionales). The law of July 2 in article 22 provides: 
 
 “The churches intended for public worship are the property of the 
 nation, represented by the federal government, which will determine those to 
 be continued for this purpose.” 
 
 VThe homes of the Bishops and curates, seminaries, asylums or colleges 
 of religious associations, convents or any other building which may have 
 been built or intended for the administration, propaganda or instruction of a 
 religious cult will immediately pass in full right to the direct ownership of the 
 nation, to be assigned exclusively to public uses of the Federation or the 
 States in their respective jurisdictions.” 
 
 “Persons who destroy, injure or cause damage to the said buildings will 
 be punished with one or two years imprisonment and will be subject to the 
 civic penalties which they incur.” 
 
 QUESTION: What redress has the Catholic church? What is the con- 
 
 — 30 — 
 
stitutional method by which Catholic citizens can bring about a change in the 
 regulations? 
 
 ANSWER: The remedy with respect to the regulation will be to make 
 the President see that he has exceeded his authority, as is the unanimous opin¬ 
 ion of many authorities on jurisprudence, non-Catholic as well as Catholic. 
 Fundamentally, by amending the Constitution in the manner which the Con¬ 
 stitution itself provides. With respect to other means adopted by secular 
 persons and societies, the church must confine itself, if asked, to stating 
 whether or not these are just. 
 
 QUESTION: How many priests and nuns were deported? 
 
 ANSWER: Due to the difficulty and insecurity of correspondence which 
 has become notorious during this persecution, it is difficult to give a complete 
 statement. However, it is calculated that more than 300 foreign priests have 
 been deported. With respect to the nuns, only thirty have been expelled, who 
 belonged to the American convent of the “Visitation”, but more than 500 from 
 various religious institutions have been put to the necessity of leaving the 
 country and their work of teaching or of charity which they directed. 
 
 QUESTION: How many priests, nuns and laymen have been imprisoned? 
 
 ANSWER: Two Bishops, those of Huejutla and Tacambaro; two or three 
 priests; no nuns; and many laymen, although these have now been released 
 on bail. 
 
 QUESTION: Why did the Catholic church feel that its priests should 
 not obey the law for registration? 
 
 ANSWER: Because by Article 130, in registering as “responsible under 
 civil authority for the fulfillment of the laws regarding religious discipline and 
 religious objects pertaining to worship”, it would result in subordinating their 
 ministration and the property of the church to the secular authorities, which 
 is clearly contrary to the divine constitution of the church, its recognized 
 rights and its dignity. 
 
 QUESTION: How is it possible for the church to function under the 
 present regulations? 
 
 ANSWER: The church cannot function, as no organization can function, 
 when it is deprived of its temporal means, of the most essential members of 
 its organization, and even of the common rights of every citizen—of liberty of 
 the press, of “manifestaciones” (writs resembling habeous corpus) and even 
 of making complaints. 
 
 The sub-committee which interviewed Bishop Diaz also interviewed a group 
 of five Catholic ladies, two of them Americans. The interview was on August 
 3 in the home of one of the ladies, who will be designated as Mrs. B. The 
 following report of the interview was prepared by Dr. Sidney L. Gulick: 
 
 " Mrs. B. was asked regarding the exact reason v/hy the ecclesiastical 
 authorities would not permit the clergy to register with the government in 
 accord with its requirements. In reply she made the statement that the Con¬ 
 stitution of 1857 denied civil status to the clergy and that, therefore, it would 
 be unconstitutional for them to register themselves as priests. 
 
 It was evident from the earnestness of the ladies that they were very de¬ 
 vout and sincere Catholics and had accepted very completely the explanations 
 given them by the priests in regard to the present situation. They dwelt at 
 length on the severity of the persecutions, as they regarded the requirements 
 of the government, and cited details of harshness on the part of the adminis¬ 
 tration and soldiers in closing convents and enforcing the law. They evidently 
 were convinced that the primary purpose of the government was to destroy 
 the church. 
 
 An instance was cited of a case in which the deputy entei^ed a village 
 
 — 31 — 
 
church at the time of mass and proceeded to break up the service and close 
 the church. This brutal act aroused the congregation and precipitated a riot 
 in which the deputy was killed. The government promptly tried to find the 
 murderers. Failing in this respect, all the principal men of the village were 
 hanged to a single tree. The photograph of these men hanging to a tree was 
 shown us. Mrs. B. also gave us a number of documents, giving details of her 
 own experiences and those of others in connection with the events of the 
 past months. 
 
 She told us of a conversation in which President Calles stated that he had 
 met Jesus Christ three times and had slapped him in the face. Being ques¬ 
 tioned regarding this extraordinary statement, she stated that the conversa¬ 
 tion had been reported to her by a person who had heard it herself. 
 
 The above statements were made to us with the explicit understanding 
 ‘ that we were not to use any names in reporting the interview. 
 
 The Independent Catholic 
 
 Church 
 
 T he most Reverend Jose Joaquin Perez, patriarch of the Independent 
 Mexican Catholic Church, popularly designated as the “Schismaticos”, 
 received the group for an interview in the church in which he officiates, just 
 across the avenue from the monument to Benito Juarez. 
 
 Father Perez spoke as follows: 
 
 About thirty years ago there came a papal representative to Mexico, while 
 I was in a little town called San Juan. Having seen the extreme poverty of 
 the people and realizing how great was the burden of the expense of the 
 church upon them, I asked of the papal representative that the custom of 
 collecting for the services of the church be discontinued. The representative 
 was greatly displeased and, with the help of the Governor of Puebla, who 
 brought about two hundred men, came about the middle of the night, tied me 
 up by the neck and by the arms and took away from me all that I had in the 
 church and arrested all in the church who cooperated with me. They took me 
 on foot to Jalisco where I was imprisoned two years. In prison I contracted 
 a disease from which developed a tumor in my face. They operated on me 
 and left my mouth disfigured, as you can see. 
 
 The Bishop of Puebla called me and offered me another curate under the 
 condition that I retract all I had said, all that I had asked of the papal delegate. 
 I replied that in no sense would I retract what I had said because all my re¬ 
 quests were Christian. Then they asked me to make an explanation to the 
 press. When I asked in what form the explanation should be made, they 
 said simply to state that, seeing the desires of my superiors, I wished to make 
 this explanation. I refused to do it and was straightway thrown into a dun¬ 
 geon. I will give you a copy of our paper which covers the story. The whole 
 fight was to take out of the church the Simoniac custom, which I wished to 
 discard. 
 
 Please give me your questions in writing and I shall be glad to answer 
 them. 
 
 I have had as my ideal the assistance of the church and I do not believe 
 they have the right to collect for the services rendered to poor people. I wish 
 to return to the primitive church custom. 
 
 —32 
 
Questions asked were answered by one of the Patriarch’s assistants as 
 follows: 
 
 QUESTION: Have all your assistants come from the Roman church? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, they have come from the Roman Catholic church. We 
 have eight parishes in Puebla, seven in Chiapas, in all forty-eight parishes. 
 The church is orthodox because it practices pure Christianity and it is uni¬ 
 versal. It is made up entirely of Mexicans. All services are held in Spanish. 
 We do not use Latin for anything. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there any movement toward this church because of the 
 recent political disturbances? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. We have had calls for additional priests, and have re¬ 
 ceived assurance of support from Puebla. Three committees have been sent 
 here to assassinate him and Calles, with instructions to assassinate him in a 
 Christian manner. 
 
 QUESTION: What kind of Bible do you use in your church? 
 
 ANSWER: We use the Valera edition, both Old and New Testaments. 
 We use no notes in our Bibles, but allow the reader to interpret for himself. 
 
 QUESTION: What provisions are being made for seminary training of 
 boys? 
 
 ANSWER: We are going to organize a seminary, but cannot do so yet, 
 as our movement is very new. Our students study Spanish, English, logic, 
 theology, and philosophy, but no Latin, 
 
 QUESTION: Do all your mem-bers have Bibles? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. (He inquired as to the prices of Bibles in the United 
 States, with the idea of getting them to distribute among his people.) 
 
 QUESTION: Do you already have your training school? 
 
 ANSWER: We will organize it as soon as possible. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you allow your priests to marry? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, we have marriage among our priests. 
 
 Miss Caroline Smith: There is a famous woman orator who goes about 
 the country speaking against the Catholics. She talked yesterday on the 
 street. When some person expressed the wish that the bells of this church, 
 nearby, would cease ringing, she said, “No, let them ring. That is the truly 
 Mexican Catholic Church.” 
 
 Asked concerning the fundamental basis of the Orthodox Mexican Aposto¬ 
 lic Catholic Church’, the assistant said: 
 
 Our church does not constitute a sect, but includes the true religion found¬ 
 ed on Christ, our Divine Master and Redeemer. 
 
 The corner-stone of this church is the sacred scriptures of the Old and 
 the New Testaments, which may be interpreted liberally by members. 
 
 The purity of the Holy Virgin Mary is an article of faith for us and 
 nobody may belong to the real religion without this belief. The saints are 
 also to be venerated. 
 
 The governing power of this church resides in its Patriarch, independent 
 of the Church of Rome, and does not have any relation to the Pope or the 
 authority of the Vatican. The Mexican Patriarch alone shall govern and shall 
 have the authority to ordain his ministers and to confer upon them the right 
 to administer the Sacred Sacraments. 
 
 The Sacred Sacraments are to be administered without charge, that an 
 end may be put to the Simoniacal custom which exists in the Church of Rome. 
 Alms may be given freely. 
 
 The priests of this church shall be useful citizens of society, obeying the 
 laws and institutions of the country, and no person should gain a livelihood 
 except by his own efforts. 
 
We abandon the idea of ecclesiastical celibacy as being immoral and un¬ 
 natural. The priests should have their own households. 
 
 All services of the church and all liturgical books should be in the Spanish 
 language. 
 
 The clergy of this church do not pretend to practice temporal and spiritual 
 dominance over the members. 
 
 Our God is a perfect being without wrath or vengeance, and therefore 
 cannot condemn for eternity those created in his own image. The punishment 
 is measured by the sin committed. 
 
 QUESTION: How did you secure this church building? 
 
 ANSWER: We secured permission from the government to use this 
 
 building. It was filled with agricultural implements before the government 
 let us have it. 
 
 QUESTION: What do you think of the program of the present govern¬ 
 ment? 
 
 ANSWER: It is very good, because it will aid in teaching the church 
 to comply with the law and to abandon fanaticism. At one time the law was 
 broken by the bishops and the archbishop because of instructions of the Pope. 
 
 QUESTION: What do the Protestant churches think of your movement? 
 
 ANSWER: They have congratulated us. 
 
 QUESTION: Have your priests been excommunicated? 
 
 ANSWER: It is supposed they are, although they have never been so 
 advised. They have cut themselves off from the Pope. They have no relation 
 to him. Excommunication by the Pope will not affect these people. 
 
 QUESTION: Who has the authority to ordain your priests? 
 
 ANSWER: Within a month there will be seventeen young men from the 
 Eastern Orthodox Greek Church and they will receive authority to ordain 
 priests. It is simply to establish apostolic succession. 
 
 QUESTION: Has the Catholic church interfered with your work? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. The women especially have done all they could to dis¬ 
 credit this church. I sent two girls to a church to find out what they were 
 saying and they said that instructions were being given to get rid of us in 
 any way possible. 
 
 One of the assistants of the Patriarch, formerly a pastor in the Episcopal 
 Church for fifty-one years, spoke: 
 
 I take the greatest pleasure in seeing a genuine representation of the 
 United States. I had the pleasure of travelling thirty-one years ago in the 
 United States and realize the importance of your country to ours. I want you 
 to know with what great affection I regard the people of the United States. 
 
 I am in sympathy with and am associated with the work of the Patriarch. 
 Up to the present time we have not been able to put into effect all the reform 
 which I would like to see brought about. One point unites us with this man: 
 that is, liberty of the church in this country. The hope of the movement of the 
 Patriarch is not to fight against anyone, but only to restore the work of the 
 church. He wishes to perpetuate the spirit of the church during its first years, 
 which spirit has been lost. He wishes to keep the purity of the doctrines of 
 that epoch. We know that the church during its first five centuries did not 
 have a pope. The first pope was in 590 A. D. Since then there have come 
 into the Catholic church many doctrines contrary to its original teachings. 
 One of the scandalous practices has been the exploitation of the people. Christ 
 gave instructions to His apostles to go out and give grace for grace. 
 
 About thirty years ago, the Patriarch was pastor of a humble church whose 
 members were very poor. They were not able to pay for their marriages, 
 their confirmations, or their burials. In pity for them, he sent a petition to the 
 
 — 34 — 
 
papal delegate, picturing th-e miserable situation of those people and asking 
 that the tariff charged for the ceremonies be reduced or entirely abolished, if 
 possible. The petition caused great alarm among the clergy because the 
 Roman Catholic Church has as_ its fundamental basis the practice of Simony. 
 They put into operation all measures possible to persecute this man. They 
 sent two hundred men to arrest him. This was thirty years ago. They tied a 
 rope about his neck and lead him to Jalisco, and placed him with five hundred 
 criminals, where they kept him for years. The same abuses were committed 
 against others at times. 
 
 Now they are very bitter because President Calles demands compliance 
 with the law. The first requirement is that all pastors shall be Mexican by 
 birth. It may be that some do not agree with this, but the law is the law and 
 should be obeyed. We all must conform to the law. The Methodists, the 
 Episcopalians, and the Baptists—all have complied with the law. The priests 
 say that they will not obey the law. They will not recognize the Constitution. 
 They claim that they are responsible only to the Pope. Could they live in 
 Mexico if there were no Constitution or the laws were not obeyed? It is not 
 a religious question. It is a question of obedience to the law. Will they be 
 Catholic or Mexican? 
 
 Business Conditions 
 
 G eorge WYTHE, commercial attache of the United States Embassy, came 
 to the group in its conference room in the Princess Hotel and discussed 
 business conditions in Mexico by the question and answer method entirely. 
 He emphasized that he would express his personal opinions and would not speak 
 officially as a representative of the Embassy. 
 
 The group had an interview with James Sheffield, the American Ambassa¬ 
 dor, on Wednesday, August 4, but notes of the interview were forbidden. 
 
 The Wythe interview follows: 
 
 QUESTION: What do you think of the statement that the labor unions 
 have been forced by the government to take part in the recent demonstration 
 endorsing the government? 
 
 ANSWER: Mr. Morones, the Mexican Minister of Commerce and Labor, 
 has a vital interest in the welfare of the Labor Union. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you regard the present organization of the C. R. O. M. 
 in any way prejudicial to the national government? 
 
 ANSWER: It has the same form as in other parts of the world. It is 
 relatively young and untrained. I see nothing abnormal in it. It has had 
 more governmental support than labor unions usually get. 
 
 QUESTION: Is this government support made mandatory on them? 
 ANSWER: Governmental support is in most cases behind the labor 
 
 organizations. If the organization should go too far, however, the government 
 would check them. 
 
 QUESTION: Is American capital increasing or decreasing in the last few 
 years in Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: Small industries have increased in Mexico. Small plants of 
 American management have sprung up lately. High tariff has caused them to 
 be brought in. Some are French and some German. Mining is more active. 
 There has not been a real increase of capital investment in mining, but actual 
 output has been increasing. Land holdings have not increased except for small 
 pieces of property for industrial purposes. Capital investment in oil fields 
 
 — 35 — 
 
have increased because every time a well is put down, the capital investment 
 increases. But there are comparatively few new investments on a large scale. 
 
 QUESTION: What will the new law taxing mines do for mines and 
 wages? 
 
 ANSWER: The general effect will be to help large companies. Small 
 companies will be put out of business. It costs money to conform to all the 
 details of the law and to work mines. It is possible that it will be taken off 
 the wage earnings. The production cost is very high. The big companies will 
 be helped. They can operate really cheaper than can the small mines. ' The 
 very high grade ore mines will not be affected. 
 
 QUESTION: How do taxes compare in Mexico, on mining and oil, with 
 those in the United States? 
 
 ANSWER: In mining, under the old schedule, the Mexican taxes wert* 
 heavier on gold and silver. But American taxes were heavier on the base 
 metals, that is, taxation pure and simple. I do not know about the oil. There 
 would probably be a variation with fields and circumstances. 
 
 QUESTION: Are there any oil refineries in this republic? 
 
 ANSWER: They have increased. There are local corporations that use 
 more of domestic oil than before. 
 
 QUESTION: Why is gas so high here? 
 
 ANSWER: The companies say it is because of high taxes, the high cost 
 of operation due to labor trouble, etc. They produce on a relatively small 
 scale here. Freight rates generally are no higher than in the United States, 
 but things are done in a smaller way, thereby increasing operative costs. The 
 republic of Mexico has few automobiles in comparison with the United States, 
 the entire republic having fewer than the one town of Dallas, Texas. There¬ 
 fore, the unit cost is high. 
 
 QUESTION: Was it the intention of the man who promulgated these 
 laws to drive industry into consolidation? 
 
 ANSWER: I do not know what was in the mind of the government. 
 They may have had in mind to prevent a company from holding large numbers 
 of mines for long periods of time, by requiring them to work the mines. The 
 effect, however, will be to crush the small man. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the small man a factor in the mining industry? 
 
 ANSWER: Heretofore he has been a big factor in finding mines. Many 
 prospectors have been in the country, some discovering mines and many failing. 
 But the actual development of the mines will probably not be influenced by the 
 loss of the small miners. 
 
 QUESTION: Do the American business men feel that there is any dis¬ 
 crimination in Mexico in favor of any particular nation? 
 
 ANSWER: Many laws discriminate in favor of Mexico. The law pro¬ 
 vides that at least 80 per cent of the employees must be Mexican. The pur¬ 
 pose is to train the personnel of Mexican engineers. Probably in the long run 
 it is a very good thing to have a trained body of engineers. But aside from 
 that, I do not think any nationality is favored. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a general feeling in favor of Germans? 
 
 ANSWER: The Germans generally intermarry with the Mexicans more 
 than do the Americans. But I know of no occasion in which the Mexican 
 government has favored Germany over America. The tendency seems to be 
 to favor the Americans. The Americans are on the job, they get the goods in 
 here more quickly and get them of better quality. There are some lines in 
 which Americans really have no competition, as in talking machines or type¬ 
 writers. There are some lines in which competition is very, very keen with 
 local manufacturers and those from other countries. The United States can- 
 
 — 36 — 
 
not compete in electric wire. Americans buy German wire here, because they 
 can get it cheaper. American automobiles have little competition. Even the 
 British minister rides in an American car. This is because of better service 
 and is true throughout the republic. The Ford Company has an assembling 
 plant here. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a tariff on automobiles? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, on a specific basis of so much per kilogram. 
 
 QUESTION: Is France favored in the tariff laws? 
 
 ANSWER: No, Mexico has denounced her commercial treaties with all 
 countries and the only country she has a commercial treaty with now is Japan. 
 All countries get the same treatment. 
 
 QUESTION: To what extent has the boycott been effective? 
 
 ANSWER: We shall have to disentangle this from many other things in 
 order to know exactly the effect of the boycott. However, it did have its 
 effect. How much is due to the general situation and how much to the boy¬ 
 cott is hard to tell. It has had some effect on luxuries. 
 
 QUESTION: Is business paralyzed now? 
 
 ANSWER: That is a wrong statement. It is hard to say. People have 
 to live. The majority of goods are bought because people have to have them. 
 In a city like Mexico, it will be felt in certain lines, as phonographs, moving 
 pictures, etc. But people must have shoes. In times of revolution people 
 spend money, thinking that tomorrow may find it worthless. Things just now 
 are a little depressed, but business must go ahead. It cannot stop. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the balance of trade against Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: No, it is much in favor of Mexico. Exports in minerals, 
 coffee, and vegetable fibers, reach a large figure. Yet less than 3 per cent 
 of the mineral exports are produced by Mexicans. Practically all vegetables 
 are produced by Americans and Chinese on the coast. Practically all exports 
 are in the hands of foreigners. ’ 
 
 QUESTION: Does Mexico profit by it? 
 
 ANSWER: Not so much as if it were her own capital, but a certain 
 part of it comes back to Mexico in permanent fixtures, roads, etc. The per 
 cent which goes to profits goes to foreign countries, however. 
 
 QUESTION: What would be the effect upon the economic life if foreign 
 capital were withdrawn? 
 
 ANSWER: The largest part could not be withdrawn if they wished. 
 
 The most of it is in land. The land holdings is the largest single investment 
 by foreigners. Who will buy it? They cannot withdraw it. 
 
 QUESTION: What per cent of shoes and leather goods do the Mexicans 
 manufacture? 
 
 ANSWER: Only the common grades used in the country at the present 
 time. The finest grades are imported from the United States. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the duty on foreign shoes? 
 
 ANSWER: It varies according to length of last. It is prohibitive in the 
 common grade of shoe. The consumption of shoes is increasing. People are 
 wearing more and more of American clothes. There are many factories and 
 shops in Mexico. 
 
 QUESTION: Will rubber become an industry in Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: Before the revolution, when the price of rubber was very 
 high, they planted extensive plantations in the southern regions. Now it is 
 impossible to get it out, except at prohibitive prices. A certain amount is 
 produced by Indians in a crude fashion. Some is going out from the northern 
 part of the country. The cost of maintaining rubber plantations is high be¬ 
 cause of the growth of jungle which prohibits getting the rubber out. 
 
QUESTION: What are the prospects of production of rubber in Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: They have the soil and the climate, but labor is bound to go 
 up in Mexico. Transportation difficulties will add much to the cost of 
 operation. 
 
 QUESTION: Can land now covered with cactus be used for rubber? 
 
 ANSWER: It is. But who wants to put money into it to develop it? 
 
 QUESTION: What proportion of coffee is financed by Mexicans? 
 
 ANSWER: Probably 10 per cent is in the hands of Mexicans. Some is 
 in the hands of British and some in hands of Germans. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the reaction of the American business men toward 
 the revolution? 
 
 ANSWER: The attitude of Americans to Mexican officials is divided as 
 in the States towards the American president. They vary. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the Mexican method of doing business different from 
 that of Americans, meaning that there will be some graft? 
 
 ANSWER: Most Americans do not bribe. Most other foreigners do 
 bribe and do not have any respect for the government. 
 
 QUESTION: Are there many large ranches owned by Americans? Has 
 the government taken any of them over? 
 
 ANSWER: Very few have been taken over completely. The agrarian 
 question is very hard to understand. Generally speaking, before the time of 
 the Spanish, the Indians lived in groups, with primitive ideas of holding prop¬ 
 erty—the communal idea. Until the time of Jaurez they worked the land in a 
 communal way. They owned the woods, waters, and pastures in common. 
 Jaurez provided that no corporation could own land in Mexico. He aimed at 
 the church, but hit the villages and they were forced to give up lands, to 
 sell them and to get individual titles to them. Being ignorant, the most of 
 them sold their land. Some were protected by good leaders, who saw that 
 villages did not lose their titles. Diaz thought the Indian an obstacle to 
 progress. He wanted to wipe out the old traditions and to wipe out the 
 communal concept. Many Indians then lost their lands. The revolution pro¬ 
 vided for the restoration of all lands taken from the Indians and much land 
 was returned to the Indians. Some of those Indians still have land given them 
 then. It is impossible, therefore, to pass on the question. It is very nice that 
 these Indians have their own lands. The chances are that they will stay 
 under the old communal system for the next hundred years. There are few 
 land owners who have not had some of their land taken. 
 
 QUESTION: Will Americans have difficulty in disposing of their land? 
 
 ANSWER: Who will buy it? 
 
 QUESTION: Does the law provide for their confiscation? 
 
 ANSWER: Since October of last year bonds were issued by the govern¬ 
 ment and have some commercial value, as in the payment of taxes. 
 
 QUESTION: Who decides how much the government shall pay for land? 
 
 ANSWER: It is all settled by certain commissions. 
 
 QUESTION: Do American oil interests cooperate now with the Mexican 
 government? 
 
 ANSWER: No one is ever content on the -question of taxes. It has not 
 been fully adjusted. The companies accepted the law. Some of them pay 
 under protest. Most of the American companies pay, but with complaint. 
 
 QUESTION: How much of the capital invested in Mexican railways is 
 American? 
 
 ANSWER: The amount is relatively small. Most of the American 
 
 capital is in the Southern Pacific, which runs down the western coast. Only a 
 small per cent is held in the United States. The Mexican railroad is held by 
 
 — 38 — 
 
the Mexican government, which holds a controlling stock. The Inter-Oceanic 
 Railroad is owned half by British and half by the Mexican government. The 
 road from Vera Cruz to Mexico City is held by British. Many small railroads 
 here are built by mining companies, of which many are held by Americans. 
 The street railways are owned by Canadian capital. The Mexican railroad has 
 a board of directors, dominated by the Mexican government. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the Mexican government have an export duty on all 
 products that go from the country? Will it hamper foreign trade? 
 
 ANSWER: The president can change any duty he wishes, over night. 
 Since Carranza came into power congress has not appropriated a budget. 
 Everything is paid out of government funds at the order of the president. He 
 changes the import and export duties, the salaries, as he wishes. States some¬ 
 times levy export taxes in spite of the Constitution. It is dangerous to busi¬ 
 ness. They never know what to expect and therefore hesitate to invest. 
 
 QUESTION: »Why doesn’t congress vote a budget? 
 
 ANSWER: They cannot agree. It is better to leave it in the hands of the 
 president. The real trouble of taxes is from the states. The changes of duty 
 are so fast. The entire system may be changed in a few months, as in the 
 case of automobiles in the last three months. The difficultj" is the uncertainty. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the executive powers larger here than in most other 
 Latin-American countries? 
 
 ANSWER: I have not had experience in Latin-American countries. In 
 many, as here, I think, the president decides everything of any importance. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the executive officer in all Latin-American countries 
 have larger power than in America? 
 
 ANSWER: He has. The mining law was promulgated by presidential 
 decree and so were many others. The religious regulations were by decree. 
 The congress here went through the formality of passing a law authorizing 
 the president to issue the decree, without giving any details of the law. 
 
 QUESTION: Can the president annul the judgment of a court as he 
 wishes? 
 
 ANSWER: The courts would be careful to know the president’s wishes 
 
 first. 
 
 QUESTION: What is your personal reaction as to the ability of the last 
 president in comparison with this one? 
 
 ANSWER: President Calles is a better administrator, is a more modern 
 business man type, is more efficient. 
 
 QUESTION: What way is there for a group who object to a law to have 
 redress? 
 
 ANSWER: By persuading the president. The constitutioft is usually 
 amended by revolution. 
 
 The Program of Education 
 
 T he program, of education of the Calles government was described by 
 Dr. Moises Saenz, assistant secretary of education, in an interview at noon, 
 August 6. He spoke in English, as follows: 
 
 It gives me great pleasure to welcome you, ladies and gentlemen, to the 
 Department of Education; and we feel very grateful to you for your attitude 
 in your trip, your desire to find out the facts about Mexico. We certainly 
 hope we can give you in this visit to the Department some information that 
 may be valuable to you. 
 
 —39 
 
I will make a more or less introductory statement about education in 
 Mexico; then you may ask questions. We have a federal system of schools, 
 directed by this Department of Education. Then each state has its own school 
 system. We have a dual system of education in Mexico. The Federal District 
 also has its jurisdiction. The federal government can establish any number of 
 schools anywhere in Mexico. We have the right to do that, but then each state 
 has the responsibility for its own school system within the state and is of 
 course the final authority for school matters in the state. The question of 
 responsibility is entirely clear. We do not try to govern. We go out to help 
 and supplement the action of the state. Even the counties have in some part 
 school responsibility. 
 
 The type of schools we have established are the same as in every other 
 country. They go from the Tcindergarten to the university, through the differ¬ 
 ent grades. A primary school has two divisions—the first four years, elemen¬ 
 tary grades; and then two years, which are the superior prirnary grades. The 
 six years form the primary school proper. Then we have secondary schools of 
 different types. There are five years of the secondary school; the student 
 then enters the university. 
 
 We do not have anything to correspond to your college. A boy will 
 start at seven, study six years in the primary schools, then five years in the 
 secondary schools, and then enter the university for five or six years; or he 
 may elect to study law, medicine or some other course in some of our special, 
 professional schools. We have no college. 
 
 All of the states have advanced or secondary schools. We have normal 
 schools in each state. Some of the states have all of these schools, but not 
 each of the states. That is, not all of them have schools of medicine, schools 
 of law, etc. Here in Mexico there is to be found each one of these schools; 
 there is a type of school which is somewhat of a college and then something 
 more. It gives a liberal college course in a way. 
 
 We have what you call the private school system. There are private 
 schools everywhere. It is not right really to speak of a private school system, 
 as there is no center of organization. There are a large number of private 
 schools all over Mexico. These schools can be divided into three groups. In 
 this group of private schools, there are a large number of so-called Catholic 
 schools; that is, schools established with some religious aim in view, supported 
 more or less by some religious organization. We have a very small group of 
 mission schools which have the same characteristics; and then we have the 
 private schools run on a commercial basis, just as a business proposition. A 
 large number of latter type are so-called Catholic schools, church schools. 
 
 I do not want you to get the impression that when I speak of Catholic 
 private schools I am speaking of the parochial schools. In many of these 
 Catholic schools, they are not like the convents or the parochial schools; per¬ 
 sons with strong Catholic tendencies will have these schools; priests will come 
 and have something to do, and yet these are not parochial schools. Even the 
 parochial schools are not exactly in connection with the church. 
 
 These Catholic schools are principally in Mexico City. We have very few 
 in the country at large, especially in the rural districts. In Mexico City and 
 the environs of the city there are quite a number of private schools. In the 
 smaller towns maybe one or two. I do not have any statistics on the number 
 of private schools. 
 
 In the public school system, the constant effort has been that no religion 
 should be taught in the primary schools. It is now prohibited. The law says 
 these primary schools should not be conducted by a religious organization and 
 that no priest or minister should teach in any one of these primary schools. 
 
 — 40 — 
 
One of the regulations is that no primary school should teach religion; they 
 should be secular; that applies not only to the Catholic but to all religions. 
 For that reason, the Department has issued a special set of regulations for 
 private schools. Under the law, there is a certain amount of regulation for 
 the teachers, specifying a certain am.ount of preparation, and for the equip¬ 
 ment of the schools. All of these regulations were discussed in this department 
 by a committee composed of delegates from the private schools and from the 
 department. These regulations were accepted by the Protestants and non¬ 
 religious schools, and at present you will observe that these schools are open 
 and have not been affected. But in many cases the Catholic schools did not 
 and would not accept these regulations. 
 
 We knew that the great weakness in our educational system in Mexico 
 was in the country schools. For many years here in the city we have had very 
 fine schools of different types, also in some parts of the country just as fine. 
 In different parts of Mexico you will find systems of different types. Some of 
 these schools are just as fine as you will find in any part of the world, but 
 there were not enough schools. It was not the effort of the church, as they 
 claimed, to spread or extend their schools to all parts of the country. They 
 were only in the large cities. In the administration of President Diaz many 
 fine schools and very fine public buildings were built. But all of this develop¬ 
 ment was here in the city or in the larger cities and towns of the Republic, 
 so that all the foreigners who came to visit us could see and wonder at the 
 development down here in Mexico. But the greatest need in Mexico was for 
 schools in the country, in the rural districts; so when the Department was re¬ 
 established in 1920, we started with a national program of education and we 
 then began to establish and work for schools in all of the rural districts. 
 
 The most significant thing in the work of this Department is that for the 
 first time—not boasting—we have thought in national terms. Previously the 
 effort was always either directed to the city of Mexico or to some particular 
 place. But one of the results of the revolutions has been that the people are 
 thinking in national terms and of problems and situations as a whole. 
 
 We know we will have to go to the far away districts in order to save 
 Mexico educationally. It is very easy to pacify oneself over having fine schools 
 in the capital of the Republic or the capital of the states and seeing what 
 kind of fine work they are doing; but it is very hard when you think of all 
 those places and children without any schools. Our principal problem is get¬ 
 ting far enough away to reach all of the Indians, for there are many who do 
 not speak Spanish, who do not understand it at all. It is very clearly our great 
 problem in Mexico to help educationally; it is a question of schools. 
 
 We have an illiteracy of 62 per cent of the population. That means over 
 8,000,000 people do not know how to read and write, including children. We 
 have almost two million and three-quarters of school age at present. There 
 are approximately one million and three-quarters going to school at present. 
 In other words, out of our two million and three-quarters of possible school 
 children, one million are not going to school. They are not going because 
 there are no schools to which they can go. We have no means yet of forcing 
 them to go, for we simply have not enough schools. One of the great problems 
 is that the department lacks funds to open schools or to send an extra teacher 
 here and there. We have more children than we can take care of. It is simply 
 a question at present of establishing some more schools. The schools we have 
 already established are not adequate. 
 
 In 1925, the twenty-eight states, independent of the federal government, 
 had 4,635 rural schools. The federal government this year has 2721 rural 
 schools. We have 4,208 elementarj’^ schools supported by the states and 683 
 
 — 41 — 
 
secondary schools. The total number is 7,356 schools; the total enrollment 
 was 1,049,521 in all schools. The percentage of school age attending at 
 present is 39.57. Only four out of ten of school age are going to school at 
 present. That is, in the public schools. Unfortunately we do not have 
 statistics on the private schools. Of course a number of these children are 
 going to private schools. A good guess would be that five out of every ten 
 children are in school at present in Mexico; that is, four in the public schools 
 and one in the private schools. 
 
 Now this is the problem Ave have before us. We have to provide for an¬ 
 other two million children. We have also the question of adult illiteracy, but, 
 to tell the truth, that doesn’t worry us much. Simply because we want to get 
 to the children first and our first and most elementary duty is to them, to see 
 that they have schools in order to stop the illiteracy for coming generations. 
 If we do not get to the adult population, they will have to die; but in the 
 next generation we will not have so many illiterates. The trouble has been 
 formerly that schools were not provided for the children, thereby increasing 
 the number of illiterates. There is no reason for opening schools for adults 
 when there are none for the children. It is simply a question of providing 
 schools for these children. We have also to remember that most of these 
 children are out in the country. We have to remember that a good many of 
 the children are Indians, of pure Indian blood. We have to remember that 
 the states are expending 40 per cent of their budgets in schools and could 
 expend very much more. It stands to reason they cannot, unless their economic 
 status changes a great deal, do much more. The duty of the depart¬ 
 ment is clear; we must open the schools. The states cannot establish in the 
 country or rural districts enough schools. 
 
 What kind of rural schools we establish just now it does not matter, just 
 so we can have schools. We are not very particular about anything. We 
 grab a man or a woman and put them in a school if they are willing to teach 
 it. Once he is there, we begin to ask some questions: what do you know and 
 what are you doing; and we are trying to improve those teachers in service. 
 We need a thousand teachers this year. Most of our teachers do not have 
 more than a primary school education, that is, six years; some have a little 
 more; some are normal graduates; but some of them have not even completed 
 primary school, they have had not more than four or five years schooling. It 
 is sometimes difficult to help them, as they are more or less mature men and 
 women. They average about twenty-one years of age. We have about 50 
 per cent men and about 50 per cent women. There is one thing we do ask 
 and try to find out—whether they have an interest in this work, that is, if 
 they have a missionary spirit. We ask of these people a true missionary spirit, 
 an interest in social welfare. Their work has a much wider and broader social 
 outlook than a teacher would have ordinarily. 
 
 The Department has established 2,721 rural schools this year. These 
 schools are mostly one teacher schools. Ninety-five per cent of them are only 
 one teacher schools, or were so last year. We have increased our rural schools 
 this year by one thousand. The rural schools are the product of four years’ 
 work. Four years ago, we did not have a rural school supported by this 
 Department; the Department of Education did not establish rural schools in 
 Mexico before. In 1912, the first revolutionary government under Mr. Madero 
 started the national schools, but Mr. Madero was in office such a short time 
 they just started. We were just getting to the preliminary work. We had 
 some people in the fields when Mr. Madero was killed and the next day the 
 work dropped out. I mean the rural schools’ work. When Mr. Carranza came 
 in, there was a similar movement for rural schools, but nothing was really 
 
accomplished in that short period. 
 
 We are now in a position to accomplish a good deal provided we have 
 the money. We could then have schools very fast. It is only a question of 
 getting the money necessary to establish new schools. The program for next 
 year calls for the establishment of one thousand schools more, for one thousand 
 teachers more for the schools which are to be established, and also to make 
 the schools already established two teacher schools instead of one teacher 
 schools, that is, we will have two thousand teachers more than now. We are 
 studying our budgets and you may be sure that every million we can snatch 
 off from the department of finance is being taken. I have been thinking of 
 two thousand schools instead of one thousand schools. I do not know 
 whether the financial status will support my dream. We have the thing down 
 to a fine point. With one million pesos and a quarter, we can establish one 
 thousand rural schools. It means just getting this many millions; and getting 
 the millions is not an easy matter when sometimes we have to fight for one 
 hundred pesos. 
 
 The nature of the work in these rural schools is without precedent. We 
 are not bothered with educational dogma of any kind. That is a very fine 
 thing. We say the rural school is to create the rural spirit; that it is very 
 essential to explain to pupils in a very elementary way the rural life; we say 
 the end is to try to incorporate these children into the Mexican family and to 
 bring the parents into the fold through them. Something is done sometimes 
 directly with the parents. In most of the rural schools we have night schools; 
 generally the young men and young women come to the night schools to 
 learn; then we have some kind of social action with parents,—and we give 
 them whatever help we can. We send out libraries and see that special service 
 for'inquiries is established so that the people out there can send in questions 
 about their problems and we answer them through our library department 
 here; but we mainly work with the children in the schools. We teach them 
 how to read and write; and while these country schools are really not much 
 more than three hour schools, our main aim, our principal desire is to teach 
 all these children how to read and write. There are quite a number of people 
 who do not speak Spanish. We teach them the language. 
 
 In each state, to supplement the work done in the rural schools, there is 
 established at least one elementary school as fine as we can get it, something 
 practical, teaching what the people in the community can hope to attain and 
 can understand. We establish this elementary school in the capital or one of 
 the larger cities or towns of the state; through that school we are teaching 
 the school system for the state. We have, of course, in some of the smaller 
 villages an elementary school. We have vocational schools in some parts of 
 Mexico and we are supplementing the work of the states. Here in Mexico City 
 we have something worth while, open air schools. These schools are interesting 
 because they are schools for the slums, for destitute children, put up at the 
 very cheapest cost. They are quite a success. We found ourselves unable to 
 build enough schools for Mexico City. We had to devise a very cheap struc¬ 
 ture and so we devised the open air schools. This is a new project, without 
 any previous example, a striking-out on the new education, on the new idea 
 of doing, action, activity. It will bring about a great change with these 
 children. It is social; it is a grouping of the children; it is advancing them and 
 giving them some of the education they ought to have. 
 
 I want to tell you how we are training our rural school teachers. To 
 begin with they have very little education, little or no training, but they have 
 enthusiasm for their work; in that they excel. They are really vei-y deficient 
 in their technique; they want to do things but they cannot. 
 
 — 43 — 
 
We have a group of special teachers that goes out into the different 
 states. They gather these teachers together in some central place and hold 
 institutes. Their work is to help the rural teachers and their pupils. In this 
 group there is an educator expert in rural education; in fact, each one of the 
 group is a specialist on some subject to help these rural teachers. One is an 
 expert in home economics; another is an expert in matters pertaining to agri¬ 
 culture. These experts are the teachers in the institute. They give to the 
 teachers who come to them from the country schools all the help and instruc¬ 
 tion they can for the few weeks they are there. Sometimes they establish their 
 institute in one of the small villages and the village school is used as an 
 example for the institute. There is no time wasted in taking examples of 
 schools in New York or somewhere else. We work to make these teachers 
 better able to use whatever material they have at hand. Here is your plant 
 and your children, now do the best you can and we will help you to do it, say 
 the group teachers. They go out and do whatever needs to be done. They 
 vaccinate, they give lectures on hygiene, they give entertainments and try to 
 start some social life; they get the mothers to come and they teach them how 
 to work; they organize a parents association; anything, any action or social 
 work according to the conditions. When they get through with that village, 
 the teachers return to their villages and their schools and the institute goes 
 somewhere else to do the same kind of work for other teachers and other 
 people. The traveling institute will be the greatest help for these people in 
 the future. In time we hope to extend its influence in every state and to 
 every community. We believe it will bring about many changes in these 
 communities. 
 
 QUESTION: How many of these groups are there and how much terri¬ 
 tory will they cover this year? 
 
 ANSWER: There are six of these groups functioning now, since the 
 first of May. By the end of the. year they will have covered one-half of the 
 Republic or one-half of the teachers that we have sent out into these rural 
 districts to rural schools. Next year we have plans to increase these traveling 
 groups so as to cover the entire Republic and perhaps visit some of these 
 places twice. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the foreign interests that are exploiting Mexico doing 
 anything to back up the government giving the Mexican people an education? 
 Do the interests in Tampico and Vera Cruz see to it that the people who are 
 serving them and whose wealth they are taking away are gaining an education? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes and no. Some of these companies have schools for their 
 employees; but they are exceptions. Of course, they have no legal obligation 
 to do it and we should not expect them to go out to make charity to us; they 
 might do it if they were a little more humane. But they do not. Since last 
 year we have received, from two oil companies in the petroleum region, nearly 
 eighty thousand pesos, given in two different sums, which we have used for open 
 air schools. They were given to the Department to be used in that way. So 
 far as I know these are the only gifts we have received. As you know these 
 people are not in welfare work. 
 
 The federal government is establishing agricultural schools. The Presi¬ 
 dent personally has been directing this, because he has so m.uch interest in the 
 matter. He is establishing four large agricultural schools in as many regions 
 of Mexico. They have bought large haciendas and are building agricultural 
 schools for the young people of 15 years of age. They vdll bring them from 
 all over, for these will be boarding schools with two year courses. They will 
 be taught agricultural science. The President has established four, which ai’e 
 
 — 44 — 
 
nearly completed, and he is planning to build four more next year. 
 
 QUESTION: What does the C. R. O. M. do? Has it not a number of 
 night schools? 
 
 ANSWER; Yes, and they really work. They have been establishing a 
 good many schools. They work with us to get schools. It is through them 
 that many schools have been established. We have a number of working men’s 
 schools, night schools supported by this department. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the minimum and maximum wage of your rural 
 school teachers? * 
 
 ANSWER: For the one-teacher rural schools we have only one salary— 
 two pesos a day, 72‘0 pesos a year. Next year we are going to change that 
 and make it a minimum salary, and then work on a scale of salaries up as 
 high as four pesos a day. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the Protestant schools doing good work? 
 
 ANSWER: Very much so, for two reasons. One is that most of the 
 teachers put in these schools have a missionary spirit, which is what we need, 
 and also some of the schools established by these missionaries for their 
 churches have brought new methods and new ideas which have helped us in 
 many ways, new methods, new movements, which have served as a guide for 
 our system. But there have not been so many. Sometimes they have tried 
 to match the public schools instead of going out where there were no schools. 
 Sometimes they have tried to set up a school here or in the capital of a state 
 where the need was not so great. I have always felt that the missionary 
 should be where the schools were limited in extent, where they might do more 
 good and reach more of the people who would not be reached in any other 
 way. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there anything in your present educational or religious 
 laws that would prohibit people who were interested establishing schools? 
 
 ANSWER: Not so long as they comply with the federal regulations. 
 
 QUESTION: Is it not true that many of the-mission schools in Mexico 
 City were here before the public schools? 
 
 ANSWER: Catholic schools, yes; but not the Protestant mission schools. 
 They came in 1860, 1871 or 1872. The first schools in Mexico City were the 
 church schools. 
 
 QUESTION; How do you provide for your buildings? 
 
 ANSWER: In reality we do not provide; we ask the village for a hut 
 or building. It is a local responsibility. And we want to keep it so. We have 
 no money for buildings, and inasmuch as we give them a teacher, supplies 
 and everything else, they should be able to furnish these buildings. 
 
 QUESTION: What standard equipment has each school in these rural 
 communities? 
 
 ANSWER: We give them books and blackboards and desks (not standard 
 American desks, but something to sit on), one or two maps, a Mexican flag— 
 and permit me to say this is important, for in many cases these children have 
 never seen a flag before. Very modestly. We are not up to the standard 
 of California, Illinois or any of those states. 
 
 The Labor Movement 
 
 S ENOR LUIS MORONES, Secretary of Industry, Commerce and Labor, gave 
 an interview Friday evening, August 6. Senor Salomon de la Selva was 
 the interpreter. 
 
 — 45 — 
 
Senor Morones said: 
 
 One of the questions that has aroused great interest in the United States 
 concerning Mexico is the development of the oil industry in Mexico. The 
 chief cause of trouble is the hurry in which events have succeeded one an¬ 
 other. Oil was discovered in Mexico and its exploitation began almost over 
 night, which brought about many disputed interests. Oil was an unexpected 
 thing in Mexico. Investing interests crowded into Mexico instantly. 
 
 From 1917 until the regulations of the oil laws were passed last year, 
 the oil industry in Mexico was controlled by transitory laws. Previous to 1917 
 there were practically no acts regulating the oil industry in Mexico. All in¬ 
 terests did whatever they wanted. After 1917 there v.'^ere transitory laws. 
 Recently there have been permanent laws passed. The vested interests since 
 the laws have been controlling them have been very bitter and have been 
 fighting us. Only a few days or a few weeks since did the oil interests realize 
 Mexico had every right to do what she has done. 
 
 In a short while, Ramirez Carrillo, head of the Legal Department of In¬ 
 dustry, Commerce and Labor, will explain these oil laws and the difficulties that 
 arose on account of these laws; difficulties, I am happy to say, which only a 
 short while ago lessened considerably. 
 
 I will now speak to you briefly concerning the labor movement. The 
 labor question is closely related to the petroleum legislation, because previous 
 to the constitutional amendments in Mexico labor suffered because there was 
 no check on oil companies requiring proper treatment towards the field laborer 
 on the part of these companies, or on the part of ail kinds of companies, in¬ 
 cluding Mexican. Previous to the revolution of 1910, which was nothing but 
 one revolution after another, which did not better the laborers, the average 
 salary was ten or fifteen centavos a day. The average weekly wages were 
 between one peso and a peso and a half. With the revolution, a different atti¬ 
 tude came. It was possible to enact the 1917 constitution and, with the 1917 
 constitution, to organize all labor; but these results follow sixteen years of 
 almost unceasing revolution. The present wages for field labor are now one 
 peso and a half per day and for industrial labor four pesos per day. The life 
 of the laborer naturally has changed a great deal for the better since these 
 laws have been passed and due to the fact that labor has organized and 
 maintains the best relations with the government and will continue to maintain 
 them. It is not mixing in the government, but keeps to its own affairs. The 
 revolution made it possible for this government to have land. Whereas be¬ 
 fore we had serfs, we now have people with their lands. These revolutionary 
 governments brought troubles into Mexico but they have done away with 
 many of the troubles. 
 
 The labor movement in Mexico is not as it is frequently painted in the 
 headlines in the United States. The labor movement in Mexico has much in¬ 
 fluence for it to do good. Mexico had to change its systems over night as it 
 were. There was a change of system throughout the country, changed by the 
 Constitution of 1917, looking towards fairness and justice. It was not possible 
 to have a fully ordered organization without trouble, but this trouble has been 
 caused principally by those who have been fearing the results of the law and 
 the enforcement of labor rights. The foreign capitalist and many others were 
 not interest in the law nor in the enforcement of it. Before the poor working 
 man received only 50 centavos for his day’s work, but now it is different from 
 when he worked those long hard days. Well, when all this was changed the 
 capitalist howled, both the native and the foreign capitalist, and in the United 
 States they said there was no protection for American capital. You people in 
 the United States have not had this difficulty, you have not had to fight this 
 
 —46 
 
way for the welfare of the worker. You people have not had to deal with such 
 conditions. In the United States, the head of a firm or of a business has to 
 work. He comes to his office regularly. He comes to his office to work. But 
 here in Mexico it was different. He spent all his time and money in Europe 
 and going around the world. If there were any difficulties in finances in his 
 firm, he solved them by reducing the wages and increasing hours of work. 
 These people have raised up and howled that Mexico is not the place for good 
 investments because their property is not protected, in Mexico. You people 
 who have come to Mexico cannot see that the government has never tried to 
 regulate the laws for all in a proper way. That is one of the things these 
 revolutionary governments have tried to do; they have tried to improve condi¬ 
 tions, to right the wrongs for the poor fellow. If there are improvem.ents in 
 production, the labor that helps to produce it should benefit from the 
 improvements. 
 
 The government has also demanded from the laboring classes and or¬ 
 ganizations that they bear their duties as well as the man higher up. There 
 has been much discussion in the United States as well as in Mexico on account 
 of the demands of organized labor. The government recognizes it as a great 
 force but it does not let it go; neither do the laborers let it go. The govern¬ 
 ment in 1917 realized the inherent rights of labor to make demands and have 
 those demands granted. It has also told labor, “you have duties to perform, 
 remembering what the country can bear.” 
 
 One of the difficulties in not having real, exact, clear, impartial informa¬ 
 tion regarding things in Mexico is that this information is not always impartial. 
 Mining men in the United States, people who want to invest in mines, ask for 
 reports from the miners here. People who want to trade m certain things ask 
 that information from people who trade here. They ask the people in the same 
 commercial, industrial line for this information, who are interested in keeping 
 other people out of the field, in not having any competitors, and their reports 
 from these people who are interested are not always good, impartial reports. 
 The report usually given is not favorable to us. 
 
 But we can only try to fulfill the Constitution of the revolution. Many 
 mistakes have been committed, many errors. This govecnment has been made 
 up of men who have had to draw their experiences from the affairs of life. 
 Men of the Calles government are men of humble origin and liable to make 
 mistakes or to fail in their effort to see that the program of the revolutionary 
 constitution is carried out. It is a very great undertaking that has been start¬ 
 ed; and all are trying to carry it on with much difficulties. 
 
 A great deal has been said about the religious difficulty of the present 
 government, which is seeing that the laws are complied with. It has had 
 difficulties with the oil people in seeing that the laws concerning oil are 
 obeyed, difficulties with the land owners in seeing that the agrarian laws are 
 enforced, and now with the Roman Catholic Church in seeing that the laws 
 are enforced. It has had difficulties since the enactment of the constitution 
 of 1857, declaring that all churches should obey and that all their property 
 belonged to the nation; and then since the constitution of 1917, also the same 
 thing. The present government proposes to see that the constitution of 1917 
 is put into effect, that its different provisions are carried into effect and obeyed. 
 Since the church did not obey, in accordance with this constitution, the govern¬ 
 ment has made certain regulations regarding it and education. Among these 
 regulations is one that religion shall not be taught in the primary schools of 
 the country; that no child shall be taught religion in the school until he has 
 reached a certain age where he can make choice of what religion to follow. 
 That is what the Roman Catholic Church did not want; they did not want any 
 
 — 47 — 
 
other religion; but the law gives all a right to thirtk. Another regnjla-tion igi 
 that the church buildings belong to the nation. They have been belonging to 
 the nation since 1857. The 1917 constitution does not change the provisions 
 in that fact. The state is the owner of these church buildings. It so happened 
 that the owner did not know where all these buildings were.' It was re<^uired 
 that the priest in charge in each church should be responsible to the govern¬ 
 ment or to the state for this property and should register as being responsible 
 for this church so that any change there from one priest to another would be 
 known to the state and how the property was administered. The church has 
 brought about the so-called religious conflict because it did not care to comply 
 with the law. The nation cannot do otherwise than enforce the law, which is 
 the origin of the religious problem and has seemed such a serious problem. 
 
 I want to emphasize the duties and the rights of laborers as organized 
 laborers. They are all expected to fulfill their duties and then their demands 
 and rights are considered. 
 
 The Oil Laws 
 
 IMMEDIATELY following the Morones interview, Senor Gonzalo Ramirez Car- 
 I rillo, head of the legal division of the department of industry, commerce, and 
 labor, discussed the Mexican oil laws through Senor de la Selva as interpreter. 
 He said: 
 
 I am going to give an outline of the oil laws in Mexico. The Government 
 is doing something Worthwhile for the Mexican. They believe they are work¬ 
 ing honestly and there is no reason to keep in the dark this oil situation. The 
 Mexican laws concerning oil and mining in general have their origin in the 
 time when Mexico was acquired by the Spanish. The Spanish Crov/n reserved 
 all rights to the soil and the sub-soil. This was in the body of laws enacted by 
 Alfonso the Wise. During the reign of Peter III, there was a deviation from 
 this because that king wanted to grant certain religious institutions the right 
 to maintain here and gave them the rights to the soil and sub-soil. That 
 division by King Peter did not last long because under the reign of Phillip II 
 they considered that these religious institutions did not develop fully the soil 
 and the sub-soil and enacted a decree taking back all these lands to the Crown, 
 reserving the right to give to these subjects the right to exploit this land. 
 
 Since the ordinance of King Phillip there has been almost no change at all 
 in these laws regarding soil and the sub-soil, especially regarding the sub-soil. 
 These laws become retroactive in Mexico as by the ordinance of 1783, which 
 were for a short time; but were changed again in 1784; that is according to the 
 original documents. I have brought with me these documents which can be 
 examined. The ordinances of 1783 decreed that all products of the sub-soil 
 belonged to the crown, not only metals and fuel but “Betunis”, which means 
 the juice of the earth, which includes petroleum, later discovered. These 
 ordinances enacted by the Spanish Crown in 1783 were included in the free 
 Mexico, on account of the fact that in the treaty signed between the revolu¬ 
 tionary forces that made Mexico it was understood that the Spanish laws 
 would be the laws of free Mexico until free Mexico had time enough to enact 
 its own proper laws. 
 
 In 1884, for the first time Mexican legislators concerned themselves re¬ 
 garding the sub-soil, granting the products of the soil to the owner of the soil, 
 but the owner remaining subject to whatever laws the state might pass upon 
 that exploitation. Article 10 of Chapter 4 of the Laws of 1884 were the 
 first passed; then again in 1892 and still later in 1909 laws to the same effect 
 
 48 — 
 
were passed. Note first, the state did not surrender the sub-soil entirely to the 
 owner of the soil, but it made it possible for the owner of the soil to use it. 
 The principles from time immemorial regulating property in Mexico are as 
 follows: Full property is enjoyed when the enjoyment of that full privilege 
 does not interfere with the general w’elfare or oppose the regulations of the 
 welfare of the nation. Under this principle there are two kinds of domain, 
 the domain to use and the domain or the full privilege to do with property 
 whatever the owner wants. Those are the principles regarding property that 
 embodied in the civil code of 1872 and the civil code of 1884, 
 
 According to general regulations of law, there are three kinds of prop¬ 
 erty, or there are three principles that govern property. First, the principle 
 of eminent domain. The principle of eminent domain is that it is held by the 
 state. The state has the right of eminent domain in its jurisdiction, to take 
 it whenever necessary. Also this principle of eminent domain provides for 
 whatever policy or other regulations it is considered necessary for the state. 
 Then there is full domain on the part of the owner or citizen in the state, to 
 enjoy, to own, to exploit. Then there is the semi-full domain or the right 
 whereby the owner owns but somebody else uses it for exploitations. The code 
 of 1884 was a deviation from these principles. Therefore, the legislators of 
 1917 went back to the principles which the people were accustomed to before 
 the civil code of 1884, establishing laws which were accepted in Mexico. These 
 principles are in Article 27 of the 1917 Constitution. Article 27 defines the 
 various kinds of property—whether eminent domain, full domain or otherwise. 
 It does not give the state all right to use and enjoy the sub-soil. It grants 
 the state a semi-full domain; the state has the domain, but someone else uses 
 and enjoys it. And the state granting the use to the sub-soil is not only 
 giving a favor but fulfilling a duty. It is oblig'ated to grant the use of the 
 sub-soil to the citizens of the Republic. 
 
 Those that voted against Article 27 of the Constitution made so much 
 trouble with it, it was necessary for the Supreme Court, which is the highest 
 judicial tribunal in the country, to pass upon and establish the correct inter¬ 
 pretation of Article 27 so that it did not injure the rights, legal or acquired, 
 under laws previous to the 1917 Constitution. According to the constitution 
 if there are five court decisions that bear upon the same matter and that agree, 
 that establishes precedent which is to be embodied in the law. The trouble 
 made against Article 27 compelled the Supreme Court to give these five deci¬ 
 sions. In accordance with the article' of the Constitution and with these deci¬ 
 sions of the Supreme Court, the petroleum law recently enacted has embodied 
 the provisions that all those who have legal and acquired rights in the sub-soil 
 will continue in these rights, but it establishes whether the man is the owner 
 of the soil or whether he is the possessor only of the oil rights which he has 
 acquired. In conformity with this law following rights will be granted without 
 the holder thereof, the sessionaire, making any expenditures: all rights derived 
 from lands for working petroleum exploitation, which work should have taken 
 place before the enactment of the 1917 constitution, that is the first of May, 
 1917, when the Article 27 went into effect; all the rights derived from con- 
 ti'acts before the first of May, 1917, by the owner of the soil or all those that 
 should be legally represented. If a company was formed previous to 1917 to 
 exploit the sub-soil, its rights continue until the company is finally terminated. 
 Here a company lasts fifty years or more. In spite of all previous legislation 
 of Mexico establishing that any foreigner could not hold property within certain 
 limits, there are properties all the way inside. In spite of that fact the present 
 government has granted foreigners who came in good faith to invest in prop¬ 
 erty within these limits full rights. 
 
 — 49 — 
 
Let me explain how to go about proving that the rights which the law 
 grants were really acquired. The laws of 1909 demanded in order to consider 
 the owner of the soil as having ownership of the sub-soil that he should have 
 exploited the sub-soil. That is, the man who owns the soil is not the owner 
 of the sub-soil. The. exploitation of the sub-soil was necessary in order to 
 own it. A fight was had over that, of course, over the sub-soil. Present 
 legislation is simpler than that. Then in order to prove that a man had a right 
 to the sub-soil, he had to prove he had worked or exploited the sub-soil. Now 
 he has to prove only that he at least had the intention of exploiting the sub¬ 
 soil; that he was ready to contract or had contracted to exploit the sub-soil, 
 or some such thing. 
 
 Now let us take the moral side of the problem. As Mr. Morones has told 
 you, the discovery of oil was an upstart thing. It was an upstart industry. It 
 was discovered over night, as it were. It brought into Mexico men of all 
 kinds who wanted to have something from it. It brought into Mexico men of 
 good faith, but it also brought into Mexico men of bad faith, adventurers. 
 These adventurers and gentlemen of industry were trying to get hold of this 
 instant discovery, wealth, by methods that were not legal; they tried to acquire 
 rights over petroleum property by methods that were not legal. They had to 
 deal with poor Mexican people who knew not the value of the land and they 
 applied all kinds of measures to get their rights away. Very often these 
 adventurers by foul means obtained titles to properties. Then there are other 
 titles. There are people or companies who are honest and acquired their titles 
 in good faith, but these titles are not good. That is, the adventurer sells his 
 title to these people who buy in good faith, they not knowing that the title is 
 not legal. 
 
 Nevertheless, the government is trying to find a solution for all these 
 problems. It has found a solution. It will confirm all rights of title legally 
 acquired by either fair means or foul means, by considering the good inten¬ 
 tions, whether these people previous to 1917 performed some work on the land 
 or entered into a contract for the exploitation of the sub-soil of that land. 
 The government could not make any more liberal offer or concession. 
 
 Therefore, in the first part of Article 14 it is established that all rights 
 will be confirmed by means of the people or companies showing that they had 
 performed works of exploitation for the petroleum before the first of May, 
 1917. It says nothing about whether these titles have been legally or foully 
 acquired, but solely whether exploitation or work has been done on the land 
 previous to 1917. As you see the government has been more than generous, 
 more than liberal, more than could have been expected. 
 
 In order for you to see how this exploitation was taken and the titles 
 acquired, I am going to tell you a story. After the conquerors were dead (the 
 conquerors were not afraid of the Indians), the people who came to colonize 
 Mexico were afraid to come as the conquerors had done and acquire the land. 
 Therefore, they formed themselves into groups or companies and established 
 somewhat of a town and exploited it as a group. They held titles to these 
 lands granted them by the king. The kings in that manner would pay these 
 men for services they had performed by giving them title to these lands. 
 Many of these people were of religious orders and wanted to establish their 
 church. Now, the agencies for these first settlers and conquerors and their 
 descendants who had inherited these properties and titles began to do away 
 with them and stop working them and began selling them to Indian com¬ 
 munities who continued with this land abandoned by the first settlers. This 
 property remained then in the hands of these primitive Indians, Indian com¬ 
 munities, until petroleum was discovered. Usually it was worth about fifty 
 centavos a hectare. The reason it was worth so little was because there were 
 
 —50— 
 
no highways. The Indians had had it because it was so worthless. The 
 Indians, primitive, ignorant, were not careful to hand it down to their children 
 as they had the right. Suddenly oil was discovered. These ignorant Indians 
 had no titles to their lands, except the initial titles from the feudal barons; 
 then the evil lawyers who were employed for the people who wanted this 
 land (for you all know rich men can have good lawyers) were working to¬ 
 gether to get this land away from the poor Indians. It was a case of the clever 
 man dispoiling the ignorant. In this way oil companies acquired lands, ac¬ 
 quired titles to some of these lands where the Indians had no titles. They had 
 only possession from a long time back. To acquix’e all these old titles it 
 caused all these lawyers to work, for they could not legalize them. 
 
 Most of the oil companies took care of legalizing the titles of the oil 
 lands they acquired, but a few oil companies were not thus careful; they were 
 not careful to legalize their rights to these oil lands according to the legisla¬ 
 tion in force previous to 1917. It is the same civil legislation in force now. 
 And these few companies that were not careful now try to keep up the 
 objections concerning the petroleum law. Most of the companies and chiefly 
 the larger companies, however, clearly understood the, game regarding this, and 
 they complied with the law. The companies with bad titles have been making- 
 all the difficulties, because the government is not at all interested in anything 
 but in a proper exploitation of this wealth of Mexico. 
 
 Previous to the law recently enacted it was the custom of the government 
 if oil ex;ploitation had been carried on not to bother if the titles to the land 
 were legally acquired. That is, the government did not look into the titles 
 of the companies asking for exploitation permits. Even now, after the enact¬ 
 ment of the petroleum law, the department grants previous permits to those 
 who have been exploiting petroleum in Mexico. Sometimes it is a long time 
 that is granted them to prove the legality of their titles. That is, they are 
 not forced to close down immediately, but rather can have a long term or 
 period to prove their titles or rights under which they may woi’k. Not only in 
 Mexico but in no other civilized country is a man allowed to exercise a right 
 he cannot prove he has. Nevertheless, the government in order to find a solu¬ 
 tion to this problem has been very liberal. It doesn’t demand that these com¬ 
 panies who have been exploiting people legally trace all their rights but will 
 accept proofs that bear the appearance of being legal. It doesn’t put into 
 force fully the regulation of existing laws. It gives them as grace to prove 
 whatever they have according to previous laws. Now, in spite of the fact 
 that the government has taken this attitude, this small group of oil people who 
 cannot prove the legality of their titles have been making a great deal of 
 trouble for the government instead of blaming their own lawyers for the 
 trouble they have been creating. 
 
 Whatever the legislation, the government does not want to take over 
 property from them. The government is not interested in taking the property 
 away but in having things righted. On June 8 this department of industry 
 issued an order, called an “acuerdo”, considering that these people had per¬ 
 haps invested money in oil exploitation in good faith, considering that if an 
 oil well came out and was no good they had to dig up another, considering 
 that it was not good policy to put anything in the way of these oil exploiters, 
 and because of a written petition sent to the department by these oil people. 
 This acuerdo granted them six months in which to prove their rights. And 
 these people, instead of being thankful for this grace that the Department 
 had granted in order to do them a favor, began to say that their rights were 
 not protected in Mexico and that we wanted to take their property away from 
 them. In spite of that the department has told these people, “If you have any 
 
 — 51 — 
 
kick coining, come over and we will settle things.” The department has no 
 further desire than that exploitation shall be thoroughly conducted. 
 
 Fortunately, most of them if not all have come now to where they see the 
 point of view of the government and are trying to work in accord with the 
 
 government; see that the* government does not want to put any obstacles to 
 
 this wealth, but seek^ to benefit the exploiters themselves, the government, 
 
 and the country as well. If mistakes have been made on the part of the 
 
 Mexican government on these questions, it has been through ignorance and 
 not through bad faith. The government wishes to stand on a substantial plane, 
 which is the only way of being strong. 
 
 The Religious Problem 
 
 S ENOR ADALBERTO TEJEDA, Secretary of the Interior, gave an interview 
 Saturday morning, August 7. The stenographic report of the interview 
 was submitted to him for examination. The following report received his 
 approval: 
 
 I am extremely happy to know that this group of American students, 
 representing various vocations of life and with the best intentions to under¬ 
 stand the real situation of Mexico, have come here to find out our real problem 
 and to help us in our efforts to solve the problems placed before the 
 government. 
 
 I justly consider this representative group as a general representation of 
 the advanced democracy of the mature political organization which is con¬ 
 sidered as one of the most advanced in this continent; and we do believe that 
 this group has come to us to look closely into these problems and to investi¬ 
 gate conditions here so as to form an opinion of the endeavors of this country 
 to help in all possible ways to organize and develop normal people for good 
 that is waiting to be done on this continent. We believe that with your 
 moral standards, with your knowledge of social life and social stability, you 
 may be able to investigate with us some of our problems and help with what 
 we are doing for the people. 
 
 I limit myself to the so-called religious problem, because that is the 
 special activity or subject relating to this Department which will interest you, 
 as I understand. I must say at once that the present struggle between the 
 church and the civil government is nothing new with us. It started along 
 during the colonial government. The church has always been struggling with 
 the civil authorities, to whom it has always been hostile. 
 
 During the colonial government, the church controlled most of our civil 
 organizations. It had to condemn and combat the cause of independence. 
 When this was near to be attained, the church began to plot in crder to con¬ 
 trol indirectly the civil power, and created therefor the empire of Iturbide. 
 When the empire failed, they never stopped in their efforts to keep political 
 control. The church may be considered as the principal cause of our revolu¬ 
 tions, which it provoked as far as bringing the French intervention. Defeated 
 by the Liberals, they waited for the military revolt of Tuxtepec, and took 
 advantage of General Diaz’s dictatorship to recover slowly their old privileges, 
 until the revolution of 1910 came again to rectify the situation in spite of the 
 plots and intrigues of the clergy, which greatly contributed to the murder of 
 President Madero and Francisco Villa’s rebellion against Venustiano Carranza. 
 
 The last events of this struggle were seen lately, when the Archbishop 
 of Mexico openly defied the government and refused to submit to the law. 
 
So the conflict was started bjr the church, who were declaring defiance to the 
 law. 
 
 This aspect of the problem is not exclusive to Mexico. The Catholic 
 Roman church, according to history, has been doing always the same thing in 
 nearly every other country where they had any chance for absolutely civil 
 control. Mexico’s particular case is more serious, according to the moral and 
 intellectual inferiority of the clergymen, due to the leadership they have had. 
 The Mexican clergy has been under the control of the Spanish clergymen. 
 The Spanish clergymen sent to Mexico have never been the best or the choicest, 
 but generally the refuse of priesthood. They are sent on account of their 
 ignorance or due to their moral conduct and because they wanted to get rid 
 of them over there. 
 
 Itjs but natural that the Spanish clergymen imported to Mexico and in 
 general to Latin America must bring monarchial feelings which, mingled with 
 their stern fanatacism, determine an evil action, opposed to any democratic 
 ideal as well as any doctrine of freedom. They constitute, therefore, the 
 most serious obstruction for the moral, economical and intellectual evolution of 
 any nation. 
 
 That foreign clergy, moreover, had controlled the choicest positions, leav¬ 
 ing the lowest to the Mexican priests, although these last might be considered 
 as better qualified. Due to that fact, during General Diaz’s administration, the 
 Mexican priests tried to obtain from the federal congress a law forbidding 
 the foreign priests their ministry in Mexico. Upon enacting such a principle, 
 the constituent assembly of 1917 held in mind the moral, economical and in¬ 
 tellectual conveniences I referred to, and were happily inspired. 
 
 Of course the Mexican government is right in not tolerating the rebellious¬ 
 ness of the Catholic clergy, and in not submitting to a continual struggle 
 with the church. In order to avoid this, the Mexican government has made 
 additions to the penal code, to be enforced only in deliberate failures to obey 
 the law. The government only wishes to see that the law is respected and kept, 
 and has only banished those foreign priests who have openly defied the govern¬ 
 ment and the laws of the country by refusing to obey them; and also suck 
 foreign priests who deserve to be branded as undesirable guests on account of 
 their misbehavior. 
 
 The Catholic clergy has been advertising to the world and trying to make 
 everybody believe, here as well as abroad, that there is great religious perse¬ 
 cution by the Mexican government; that it is trying to interfere in religious 
 activities and interests in this country. That is only a' misrepresentation 
 of facts. 
 
 The Mexican nation, represented by its government, has never meddled 
 in the religious activities or interests of any church. It is not trying to inter¬ 
 fere with the liberty of religion in any way. It is the Catholic church, pre¬ 
 cisely, who has never accepted here in Mexico that principle of liberty of 
 religion; and that is but natural to the church: Catholics do not want or ac¬ 
 cept any other beliefs; and if their main idea is to control the government 
 and submit it to the Catholic church, it is for the purpose of eliminating any 
 other creeds, whatever they be. 
 
 Such purpose was clear enough since the 1857 constitution was enacted. 
 That congress understood clearly the situation; and when later the reform laws 
 were enacted in 1859, the same principle of free religion was fully supported. 
 Years later, when the 1917 Constitution was enacted, we always kept in mind 
 the same freedom principle, and it has been our endeavor to attain in fact 
 the complete separation of the church and the state. 
 
 This government is entirely impartial in religious matters; it only wishes 
 
 — 63 — 
 
to protect everybody, to allow Catholics as well as Protestants or members of 
 any other church to live all together freely in this country. The new laws 
 and penal code ought to grant, of course, and in fact it is granted thereat, 
 such principles; but as I have already said, the Catholic clergy does not want 
 that liberty of religious worship and would gladly exterminate any other creed 
 in order to establish, if they ever could, the Catholic religion within the 
 government. 
 
 You cannot really appreciate in the United States how far the Catholic 
 intolerance reaches, and there is a reason: Catholics over there are in minority, 
 and appear submissive and compliant until they attain greater strength. 
 
 I believe the day is not far when, in the United States, the Catholics will 
 provoke and start a religious struggle. The Catholics hate the Protestants. 
 They would rather have Buddhists or even Pagans and better yet atheists, 
 rather than any other creed of Christians. 
 
 All the government is trying to do is to give full protection to the exercise 
 of whatever creed they want. The Catholic clergy ought not to fear so 
 much the additions made to the penal code. Honest people should not be 
 frightened by the penalties of the law: it is only the ill-minded who should 
 feel such a fear. They have nothing to fear if they really behave themselves. 
 
 Possibly you are getting tired of what I am saying. But I have just talked 
 in the most simple and familiar way to you. I had no address already pre¬ 
 pared for you. My ideas are rather disrupted and I do not know how far you 
 are interested in these subjects. I could extend this further on various phases 
 of the church work in Mexico; and possibly I might show you something of 
 the effects of their educational program and other teachings of the Roman 
 Catholic Church in Mexico. I should do it only to show you the failure of 
 the church, in spite of the fact that they are claiming everywhere of having 
 their schools and of teaching the people everything. 
 
 I could show you how they alter and deny scientific truths; how they 
 disturb morals in the confessional; how they kill the individual initiative and 
 will through the miracle; and many other things which clearly show how doleful 
 they have been. 
 
 When Governor of the state of Veracruz, I had a chance to see closely 
 some of the work of the church and its activities. I had to send commissioners 
 to help among the poorest people, the Indians away in the mountains, to 
 vaccinate them against smallpox when there were such epidemics; and to 
 teach them in irrigation works. The sternest opposition always arose from 
 the Catholic clergy. They always taught the people, especially the Indians 
 away in the mountains, to pray constantly to the saints instead of accepting 
 the vaccination; and to pray again to certain saints to assure the rains in due 
 time for their crops, instead of achieving the irrigation works which were 
 absolutely necessary because the water was always short. In such a way, 
 they always opposed all rational practices, trusting every need to the power 
 •of praying to the saints. This was not only done with the pure blooded 
 indigenous population, but with the mixed classes who resisted the most, 
 incited by the church. 
 
 That means that all the advantages deriving from vaccination and 
 irrigation works assuring the water wanted for the crops were rejected by the 
 church, who only admitted prayers and alms, better than anything else. That 
 is the most interesting thing for the church—alms, gifts. Who can ever be¬ 
 lieve that the clergy develops a moral and educational work, if everybody 
 knows that the sinner is forgiven provided he makes some gifts to the church 
 and says some prayers, good enough to clear from guilt and allow him to let 
 
 54 
 
his evil passions be freely satisfied, since he knows how easily his conscience 
 can be cleansed again. 
 
 Mexico endeavors to improve their fields and their homes by modern 
 and moral methods, in accordance with reason. You can verify, therefore, 
 how the church and the clergy have always been the most serious hindrance 
 for popular progress, and never a help to the nation. 
 
 If you will investigate the progress of the Roman Catholic church, you 
 will find that they have not been teaching and preaching Christianity, rather 
 idolatry, the worst form of idolatry. That they have always tried to keep 
 the people down, and not to help them to go up. The so-called great work 
 of the clergy in their schools has never helped to ameliorate the people’s lives, 
 nor to improve their lands, nor to help anybody in any way. 
 
 You people, coming from an advanced country where science is applied 
 everywhere, can easily understand how difficult it is for the Mexican govern¬ 
 ment to attain the people’s progress, when we have to counteract the gloomy 
 programs of the church. 
 
 I am entirely willing to give you any other information in any of these 
 lines, or more detail in any subjects. There is a vast amount of information 
 to which you can refer, should you wish to do so. 
 
 A book is being written on these problems. I hope, as soon as I have it 
 ready for distribution, to have it translated at once and get it into the hands 
 of the American people, so they will understand our problems and know what 
 we are dealing with. I have been very happy to see you here, and hope that 
 you will enjoy your visit to Mexico. We will always give you any informa¬ 
 tion you may desire. 
 
 MR. TAYLOR: We have been very glad to listen to Mr. Tejeda’s interesting 
 talk and to know that you are publishing a book on these interesting subjects. 
 We hope you will have it out soon. Do you know how soon? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, in about three weeks, maybe within this month. If you 
 leave me your names and addresses I will gladly send the book to each one 
 of you. 
 
 MR. TAYLOR: This is a characteristic interview (extending a San An¬ 
 tonio paper). Did you give it? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, yesterday, in the interview that I gave out to a local 
 paper and for the United States also. They asked me about some disturbances 
 in some places of the country. I said that there had been some slight dis¬ 
 turbances in Torreon, Irapuato and Ciudad Guzman, by groups of women led 
 and incited by the priests; and that with the exception of those places, the 
 situation was very quiet in the rest of the country. I also said that the separa¬ 
 tion of the priests from the churches and the appointment over all the churches 
 of local committees to take care of them did not cause any trouble or dis¬ 
 turbance at all. 
 
 QUESTION: About how many churches have been accepted by the 
 
 government and abandoned by the priests? 
 
 ANSWER: We have not the complete figures. The governments of the 
 different states have not sent their reports in yet. Before you leave the city 
 we can give you these figures of all the churches received by the government. 
 There are few exceptions where the priests have accepted the law and have 
 continued. 
 
 QUESTION: Have any of the Catholic clergy registered? 
 
 ANSWER: Official notices have been received here of several priests 
 who have accepted the law and have registered properly, especially in the 
 states of Puebla, Hidalgo, Veracruz and Oaxaca. 
 
 —55 
 
QUESTION: How many Catholic schools have been closed and how many 
 children left without school? 
 
 ANSWER: Not over two hundred schools INSPECTED by the govern¬ 
 ment, NOT CLOSED. Some of them remained closed for a few days until 
 the education department enacted the regulations. Now most of them are 
 open again, but within the law. 
 
 QUESTION: How many closed because the nuns were sent away? 
 
 ANSWER: Those handled by the nuns were only six to eight. These 
 schools will be reopened by the department of education, without nuns and 
 complying with the rules. Such is the information given to me by the secre¬ 
 tary of education who has fully shown that we need not those very few clerical 
 schools. 
 
 QUESTION: There is a great difference between what statistics say 
 
 and the Catholics proclaim. 
 
 ANSWER: In the department of education you can obtain all necessary 
 information to verify how far from truth are the Catholic clergy, pretending 
 to assign to their educational work an importance which it really has not, since 
 that work is really null. Dr, Puig Cassauranc is capable of treating these 
 topics with you. 
 
 MR. TAYLOR: The Catholic hierarchy has challenged you put your 
 finger on a single case where they meddled in politics. 
 
 ANSWER: The very fact that they have stated publicly that they are 
 going to ignore the laws of the country, is meddling in politics right away. 
 But there is something else: In the last elections for representatives of the 
 national congress, the attorney general has complete information regarding 
 some priests filling up the ballots and counterfeiting the ballots in behalf of 
 some candidates they had there. 
 
 QUESTION: Why would the church not allow the priests to register? 
 
 ANSWER: Because that means they admit the sovereignty of the state 
 as well as its laws. 
 
 QUESTION: Then the statement of the church is not exactly according 
 to law or facts? 
 
 ANSWER: Not at all. The state considers the ministers of any church 
 only as members of a profession, and they should register the same as any 
 other professional man. The state must decide how many priests are needed 
 to look after so many people or churches. The Archbishop can freely appoint 
 or remove anybody he wishes, but he can not do anything in that line which 
 is prohibited by law. We are not meddling with the interior regulations of 
 the church, as they claim, when we ask them to comply with the law and 
 register. As you are aware, the properties of the church were nationalized in 
 Mexico in 1859, and the 1917 constitution enacts the same. The buildings 
 called temples, being a property of the nation, it is but natural that the 
 government must know who are the priests in charge of the building, looking 
 after its conservation and proper use as well as the compliance with law, 
 which forbids the external or public worship. Besides that, the registering of 
 priests is nothing new among Catholics. That has been already done in Italy, 
 France and some other countries justly qualified as progressive. It is cus¬ 
 tomary and needful that all professionals, in general, should register for 
 statistical purposes as well as supervision of the professional exercise, all in 
 behalf of the people. 
 
 — 56 — 
 
IIMI ipp.i, I I jiiiL*i Iji^iiuii , IIJI III. HWI. ■ ^ ,i n n^.yjLf ,..,m^i! 
 
 Agriculture 
 
 S ENOR LUIS LEON, Secretary of Agriculture, in an interview Saturday 
 noon, August 7, spoke as follows: 
 
 The action of President Calles in this department of agriculture can be 
 divided into two parts. The first relates to the agrarian problem; the second 
 refers to the development of agriculture. The agrarian reform is carried on, 
 following the principles of Article 27 of the Constitution and some other 
 conditional principles and regulations connected with these constitutional 
 principles. The main basis for the agrarian problems relates especially to the 
 giving of lands to the different agents known among us as “cjidos”. That 
 problem had been in process of solution during the administration of General 
 Obregon. The development of this problem effected many great land owners, 
 and some individuals of the revolutionary group joined them in an effort to 
 protect their interests, so it became completely political. Naturally the prin¬ 
 cipal effort of the government was to down these interests. This particular 
 effervesence brought about peculiar conditions because some of the land own¬ 
 ers made tremendous efforts to protect their interests and some of the political 
 plotters offered their services and so complicated the problem from a political 
 point of view. General Calles’s administration being more stable and more 
 at peace has been making special efforts to separate the agragrian problem 
 from the political. By our constitution, it is endeavored to make the agrarian 
 problem a more technical problem and isolate it as far as possible from the 
 political question. 
 
 •' The agrarian commission, which is under this department, has been doing 
 a great deal of work to give all towns the country lands they need. About 60 
 ' per cent of all towns have now received these lands. They have not been given 
 all the land needed, but it is a great deal more than all the land given in the 
 previous ten years. We are working to facilitate, to hurry the solution of this 
 problem. The method followed by the agrarian committee recently was to 
 put the country lands in the hands of a local committee, who should make the 
 distribution of these lands among the people who were to work the lands. 
 That system brought about a very delicate problem in every town. The local 
 committees had economic interests as well as political interests, so when dis¬ 
 tributing land among these people the man receiving land from that committee 
 was bound to stand by the committee in every political engagement. This 
 naturally brought about much trouble in every community. In order to cor¬ 
 rect these faults, this department made a draft of a new statute or law that 
 was submitted to congress and thereby approved, providing for the distribution 
 of the country lands so as to create a homestead in every locality. 
 
 The problem was too big in the first place—the dividing up of the land 
 among the farmers who had to cultivate it; then, in order to protect the land 
 from the land monopolizers in the locality, these homesteads were not to be sold 
 but all lands were to be kept in cultivation by each individual owner in order 
 that there might not be any monopolization. So that the first operation to be 
 carried on in order to give this country land to the different agents against 
 the opposition of the land owners is against the cooperated interests of these 
 localities; and the organization of a country office to have the control of the 
 lands against the monopolizers. Therefore, the production of the local lands 
 is absolutely necessary. 
 
 I have just tried to explain the functioning of our committees in a tech- 
 nical and scientific way as carried on all through the country. But it may be 
 1 interesting to you to understand something of the foundation of justice that 
 
 — 57 — 
 
is back of all this system. In any country where the ownership would be based 
 on their ability to cultivate the land, there would be established a system of 
 irrigation. But the origin of land ownership in Mexico is grounded on the 
 right of conquest to take the land from the Indians. The land distribution in 
 Mexico took place among the different Spanish conquerors that came to this 
 country. They divided up the land in large tracts. Not only the land was 
 divided but also the natives, the Indians, were divided among these land lords 
 under a feudal system. All of this land was granted to these conquerors with 
 the understanding that they were to establish the Catholic church or religion. 
 All of these people that went with the lands, they were virtually slaves. This 
 was some form of slavery. The indigenous population did not disappear alto¬ 
 gether from the country but continued to survive. For three hundred years, 
 at least, the privileges were in behalf of the white population or the mixed 
 race. When the war for independence came, that war had the principles 
 of a caste war. 
 
 All through this history of three hundred years, the Indians had kept the 
 The Indians thought that after the revolution, as they were the indigenees, that 
 principle of their right to own lands and cultivate them to make their living, 
 the land problem was to be entirely solved. They found, however, that after 
 a few years by organizing the liberators monopolized the land in some form, 
 leaving the Indians with only political rights but without any land to cultivate. 
 
 We had revolutions and civil wars, most of them under political principles. 
 The struggle was for political control. The real war of principle took place 
 in 1859, in what was called the reform war. In these times the principle was 
 to fight for monopoly—the,main monopo’y was two-thirds of the wealth of 
 the country. The energies of the clergy of the Catholic Church was to divide 
 that great power and wealth up for it. After that reform war, the effort of 
 the liberal movement was to take the land and the property away from the 
 power of the church. But through the efforts of private parties who were 
 interested, instead of getting into the hands of the Indians again it again 
 became a monopoly. In the administration of President Diaz, which was a 
 very long administration, these same conditions continued to exist, or worse, 
 for during his administration more land was monopolized. More land was in 
 the hands of the few; that is they consolidated many of these great estates in 
 the hands of a few individuals. A gi-eat deal of national ruin was brought 
 about among the leaders of that administration. 
 
 The revolution of 1910 was elementary, based on political subjects or 
 institutions. Mr. Madero, the leader of much of that great policy, became the 
 president of the Republic. But before two years passed, the army revolted 
 and President Madero was killed. The failure of Madero and the experiences 
 of that time, showed the revolutionary leaders that the revolution would never 
 be complete unless it had an economic and social object. Of course Madero, 
 who was a great democrat and a great patriot, found very soon after starting 
 his government that land ownership was the biggest problem under his control. 
 And the great majority of the men working under him and on the great 
 political program of that time were seeing it the same way. Therefore, the 
 only way was to work on an economic basis giving independence to the revolu¬ 
 tionary worker so he might be in possession of at least some of the land and 
 have a party in the industries of the country and not be controlled. That is 
 the origin of the agrarian problem, or rather where the need of solving this 
 problem began. That problem was forced upon us by hostile conditions in 
 existence and by the demands of the day. 
 
 I know it is very difficult for the American people to understand the 
 agrarian problem in Mexico, as there never has been in existence in the United 
 
 58 
 
States the feudal system which has existed here in Mexico, v/ith the great 
 landed estates that came into existence during the administration of General 
 Diaz. A few towns that kept their common lands up to the time of General 
 Diaz at that time lost them and they passed into the hands of a few individuals 
 who monopolized the lands. If any of these people had attempted to complain 
 against the judicial department for the deprivation of their lands, the land 
 owner was enabled to use force and have them imprisoned. If there was much 
 complaint, then to have them conscripted into the army and finally have them 
 sent to the worst spots of Mexico, the most remote spots such as Quintana Roo. 
 
 To prove that these are the real causes that have been active in this 
 revolution, take note of a few things we can give to you. In a few sections of 
 the country where the small land owner was respected and where these small 
 pieces of land were not incorporated into the great, large estates, in spite of the 
 revolution, production went on thei'e in that part of the country; and in these 
 sections the small land owner refused to enter the revolution; they would not 
 pay anything for nor join the revolution. But on the contrary in those sections 
 of the Republic where great landed estates were found, where all the land 
 had been monopolized and was in the hands of the few and the rural population 
 was deprived of land altogether, in these places most everybody joined the 
 revolution and the greatest numbers in the revolution came from these sections 
 Therefore, we have come to the conclusion that the only way to establish per¬ 
 manent peace in this country is to solve this agrarian problem, is to allow each 
 family land to have a home and children, to allow everybody a piece of land. 
 When all this agrarian problem is properly solved, I challenge all the peoples in 
 the world to start another revolution in Mexico. 
 
 We are greatly interested in this agrarian problem and we feel that we are 
 indorsed by the American people in our efforts in solving ir, with very few 
 exceptions, that you ought to be deeply interested in solving this agrarian prob¬ 
 lem in Mexico. I am going to give you a few reasons why it should be so 
 interesting. Mexico is one of the best markets for American industry and it 
 will continue to be a very satisfactory market for all American products; the 
 consuming capacity of the Mexican people will be increased if all these poor 
 peons who now only use sandals or no shoes and white drill clothes have their 
 homes and can have more of the things they need and want; up to now they 
 have used only ground corn and chili and dressed with unbleached cotton and 
 as long as they remain so they will not be good consumers of these things. 
 But if we succeed in transforming these ten million people into people who 
 dress better, use better goods and better articles of manufacture, the demand 
 for American manufactured things will be increased ten or twelve times aa 
 much as now. Therefore, I believe that the American people ought to be deep¬ 
 ly interested in the solving of the agrarian problem in Mexico. The difficulties 
 that have arisen between the American and the Mexican governments over the 
 agrarian problem have been greatly exaggerated. I am going to speak to you 
 very clearly on this subject. 
 
 The American holdings that have been effected by the agrarian laws are 
 not very numerous. Some of the largest land holdings within this region are 
 open for debate, because some of this land was granted under concessions for 
 colonization, made to the present owners who were bound to colonize it, but 
 they have never colonized it. Those concessionaires succeeded in getting the 
 administration or some of the government officials of General Diaz to absolve 
 them from the duties of colonization so they would not have to go to all the 
 trouble and expense of colonization but could use the lands themselves. The 
 holders of these privileges or concessions are those who are always hollowing 
 in the United States and making the reports that we do not respect their prop- 
 
 — 59 — 
 
erty and that our laws interfere with-their holdings or property regardless of 
 rights. There is another group of large American land holders who are 
 closely related and associated with Mexican great land holders who permit them 
 to acquire interests. These individuals have been selected by the Mexican land 
 owners to transfer their property rights apparently to them so that when the 
 distribution of property comes, the owners are foreigners and not Mexicans. 
 During the administration of General Obregon, there were committees represent¬ 
 ing both governments who met to discuss some of these international problems. 
 Those commissioners established a definite basis for solving this agrarian 
 problem. On the part of the United States the commissionei's declared their 
 acceptance of the agrarian laws; that they were willing to accept the limitation 
 of land holdings of American citizens to one citron or 1745 hectares of land; 
 that the government will be ready to accept that the land holdings of Americans 
 shall be effected to that extent and that payments should be made in bonds 
 according to the laws of Mexico, which bond issue is to pay for the land; that 
 in case they should have to have more than these 1745 hectares, then said land 
 is to be paid for one-half of it by bonds and the rest in cash. Therefore, in 
 case the Mexican government were obliged to take over any land holding of an 
 American citizen of more than one citron or 1745 hectares, the owners would 
 be entitled to prove that they had gone beyond that and would be entitled to 
 demand in cash. 
 
 The original procedure in taking this land from individual owners goes 
 through several courses until finally it reaches the point of diplomatic Con¬ 
 sideration. Generally, however, most foreigners are not willing to wait for 
 this matter to run its course, but they immediately ask for diplomatic inter¬ 
 vention instead of waiting for the various courses of the ’aw and justice. 
 That is, they do not wait to see if justice is being dealt, but they ask for 
 diplomatic intervention. Some of these people by their i'complaints ha\re 
 caused much trouble. They have brought about a great deal of friction be¬ 
 tween the two governments, and have published throughout the United States 
 that we are going beyond what the law and treaties require, confiscating private 
 property of American citizens in this country. As you may see there is a 
 complete system of procedure in Mexico established by Mexican requirements 
 and customs. Some American citizens do not want to respect the laws of 
 Mexico and follow the procedure established by law. 
 
 The Constitution provides that when land is taken in these cases, the 
 government has to pay for it, taking as a basis the physical value of the property 
 plus 10 per cent. That physical value is placed by the owners themselves when 
 paying taxes. Payment of the land is to be made by bonds of twenty equal 
 payments, or in twenty years with equal payments each year and these bonds 
 carry 5 per cent interest. During the administration of President Carranza 
 a decree was published crediting the bonds to pay for the lands taken for 
 agrarian purposes. But the land owners never appeared before the government 
 claiming payment for their lands. In 1920, President Obregon published or 
 enacted another decree, giving an extension for the land ov/ners to present 
 their claims for lands taken to provide common lands to the towns, but the 
 land owners never appeared claiming payment. A new decree was published 
 also by General Obregon in 1922, giving another extension of one year to the 
 land owners in which to present their claims for payment for their lands, but 
 none was presented. The argument used in this country and in the United 
 States was that the bonds issued to pay for the agrarian debt were without 
 market value. To use their own words, they were only wet paper. President 
 Calles issued another decree last year, 1925, stating that a twentieth part 
 of these bonds might be paid each year, and could be received in payment of 
 
 — 60 — 
 
taxes and received by the national officials as gold. So by that decree these 
 bonds were guaranteed, which should have destroyed the opinion of the land 
 owners that there was no guarantee of these bonds. And another letter by 
 President Calles guaranteed these agrarian bonds. Yet another guarantee of 
 these bonds is that they can be accepted as collateral, for loans up to 66 per 
 cent of the value of the bonds. In this case the number of land owners who 
 have claimed payment for the land is simply ridiculous because it is so small. 
 
 The argument published so often in the American papers is that no in¬ 
 demnity is paid for lands taken in Mexico; but this is for political effect. 
 Because all these land owners are constantly dreaming that another revolu¬ 
 tionary movement may come along here in Mexico to overthrow this adminis¬ 
 tration and undo what this government has been doing, taking away from the 
 people the land given to them and turning it back to them, the land owners. 
 I personally believe that those are simply dreams. I beg you to excuse me for 
 taking so much time to explain these agrarian questions, but it is very necessary 
 that the American people should understand. 
 
 By what I have been saying you may easily understand that if we continue 
 favoring the country laboring man, we shall constantly be having a conflict with 
 the land owners and shall never enjoy their support and friendship. Therefore, 
 we have been forced to follow two different lines of activity. The first one is 
 to help the small land owners of the common people who are making use of 
 these common lands again to get their living and dor their families; and the 
 second is the individual land owners who are to cultivate their own lands. 
 In order to help the small land owners who are making use of the common lands 
 of the different towns, we have to use different kinds of methods. As the 
 government of General Calles could not solve this problem everywhere in the 
 Republic, we have selected special sections or spots in the Republic to give 
 education developing these people and to help them cultivate their tracts. We 
 hhve concentrated in four different states of the Republic. The agrarian prob¬ 
 lem is very complicated. Because if our procedure carries us up to the point 
 where we have a man holding his own land and he has a homestead and in a 
 position to cultivate it, the problem is still very far from being solved, because 
 that small farmer in order to cultivate that land needs education. In the 
 second place he needs a system of real credits by which he may get money to 
 support himself and carry on his work until the crop is ready. And in the 
 third place, a special kind of organization is needed to market his products 
 to avoid the middle man, who generally deprives him of his work. Following 
 that problem we have been doing several things. In the first place, we have 
 established a school of agriculture. We have already established one in the 
 state of Guanajuato; and we are to open three more new schools in three 
 different sections before the end of the year. The program of each one of these 
 sections is very small. In each one of them they can receive from 200 
 to 250 of the children of the common people. We have tried to establish these 
 schools in good agricultural sections, giving to each one about 500 hectares of 
 land, with water for irrigation, establishing them where they can have within 
 easy reach good markets for their products. The plan of the government is 
 that each one of these schools may be self-supporting in the near future. The 
 pupils received are boys between sixteen and twenty. They will take a 
 course of two years in farming, but they have to work half a daj' as laborers 
 in the fields in the country. Half of them will be at work in the morning 
 and the other half in the afternoon, learning to do the practical work of the 
 farm. The other half of the day they will devote to their classes. They are 
 led in the fields by experts who teach them how to do everything they have 
 to do on the farm. During this course of two years they have to learn in a 
 
practical way the local industries and the cultivation of the land according to 
 local means. At the same time they have to learn practically how to farm 
 and organize so as to defend themselves as producers of the land. The govern¬ 
 ment will establish in each one of these sections a local branch of the national 
 agrarian bank, to provide agrarian loans. The bank does not lend money 
 individually to any person. In every town they have to form an agrarian 
 association of credit. This association of credit is to be responsible as a 
 corporation for the money loaned to its members. That is the only way we 
 have found so that the money secured from these banks may be directly 
 invested for agriculture; and this committee or corporation is to see that it is 
 thus used. These banks have the power to make different kinds of loans. The 
 first kind of loans is to help furnish seeds, implements, money for carrying 
 on the cultivation of the land until the harvesting of the crops for that year. 
 The loan is guaranteed by the crop. The second kind of loans are destined to 
 enable the farmer to buy machinery or anything that will broaden the results 
 by using them on his farm. The payments can be made in one year or up to 
 five years. Another kind of loans is money given on mortgage of the property 
 to the land owners who need money to develop their lands, for water for irriga¬ 
 tion or some other reason. The money can be paid in one year or up to ten 
 years. We are now charging very low rates of interest. Each one of these 
 local societies will invest their profits from the lands in the shares of the bank, 
 so that in five or six years’ they will own a good many shares in the bank itself. 
 What we are- after especially here is to educate the people to take care of 
 themselves. 
 
 Our history deals with a common people who have always been in slavery 
 in some form or other and aU of whom look to the government in some depend¬ 
 ent way. Those people look to the government for everything. If the govern¬ 
 ment would establish government offices in local places and try to make these 
 loans we are absolutely sure the5?^ could not collect one-tenth of the money 
 loaned in that way. Therefore, we have decided to form national credit asso¬ 
 ciations, guided by commercial laws, to collect the payments, and also to help 
 educate them, by carefully making all these collections and the collection of 
 interest, that everything they receive they must pay back. We believe that a 
 man will only appreciate something when he knows that it has cost him some¬ 
 thing, some personal sacrifice, and not when given him. 
 
 In order to form the corporations to handle the products of agriculture, 
 the law governing the banks establishes a committee to handle all the agricul¬ 
 tural products. The bank itself or the groups from the local towns form con¬ 
 cerns which will buy the crops at fair prices. Then they market them later 
 when the prices may be better. After they have sold these crops, procuring the 
 best prices possible, they charge a very small commission for the work and the 
 balance is turned over to the farmers. That surplus generally was kept by the 
 broker or the middleman. These are some of the methods we are using now 
 to solve the agrarian problem in the country lands around the towns. We are 
 trying to teach the people to use the land and then to market their products 
 and get the most for them. We believe that with continued development along 
 these lines, we shall give a great interest to agriculture in Mexico. 
 
 In order to help agriculturally we believe we will have to he’p the individual 
 land owners. For these the government has undertaken to build up great water 
 works in different parts of the country. The government has created a com¬ 
 mission for building water works for irrigation. A great deal of time has been 
 spent in surveying land and doing the preliminary work, the work is in progress, 
 and before the end of the year we shall have spent about ten million pesos in 
 irrigation. Next year the commission will be in a position to extend the work 
 
 — 62 — 
 
so as to expend from twenty to twenty-five million pesos. We have estimated 
 that during the administration of General Calles, we will have put in irrigation 
 for cultivation 1,200,000'hectares of land. A great deal of that land is in the 
 hands of the middle class, the renters, those who were sometime ago just 
 renting land to cultivate all over the country. The other half of the land 
 may be in the hands of colonists or immigrants. Conditions for acquiring lands 
 for these colonists will be very easy. Payments can be made for twenty or 
 twenty-five years. And in order to use all this land that has been made ready 
 for agricultural purpose, I am very happy indeed to invite through you any 
 American farmers who may wish to come to settle with us and to offer them 
 these facilities offered by the governm.ent. We believe that if the Mexican 
 government can continue with this problem for ten years, it will be in a position 
 to put into cultivation more than four million hectares of land that has never 
 been productive and that Mexico will have become one of the producers of 
 the world. 
 
 In order to cultivate all this land we are planning to open for agriculture, 
 we need the co-operation and help of foreigners. We do not have enough 
 population here to develop, this progi-am. We will need immigrants from the 
 United States and Europe to help us carry on this plan. In this program, we 
 are always willing to receive with open arms all foreigners who may be ■willing 
 to come and establish themselves in the land and cultivate the land. It has 
 been said we have a nationalistic spirit that is very radical here in Mexico. 
 And it has been said abroad that we compare with the “Boxers of China”. 
 But if indmduals from any nation of the world are willing to come to Mexico 
 bringing their own capital and work on a humanitarian basis, we are always 
 willing to open our arms and wekome them. It is a fact we have certain bad 
 feelings for adventurers of the capitalistic world who have come to Mexico 
 asking for concessions for colonization purposes and who have never complied 
 with them, and who have become owners of large tracts of land and who are 
 now causing us the worst of trouble, invoking the aid of their governments. 
 For this kind of speculators we do not have a very good will; but any 
 friends who may come with their money to work, enjoy, to produce, to develop 
 the natural resources, who come here to help us develop this nation, .we are 
 always ready to welcome them with open arms. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the average amount of land per person or farmer? 
 
 ANSWER: The figures vary a great deal; the quantity of lands varies 
 from four to twenty-five hectares per head. 
 
 QUESTION: No, cities and towns. 
 
 ANSWER: That subject belongs to the department of commerce and in¬ 
 dustry and we understand that department has been studying the problem 
 and intends to establish a program. 
 
 QUESTION: Does the government have any trouble in getting these 
 people with tribal or group ownership so well established to assume individual 
 ownership of the land? 
 
 ANSWER: The main difficulty is the ignorance of these people; they don’t 
 know how to cultivate the land nor how to market their products. They have 
 never had to think for themselves. 
 
 QUESTION: Are they willing to change from their village ownership to 
 individual o-wnership? 
 
 ANSWER: The system of common lands in Meixco, with two or three 
 exceptions, has passed away. Now, they are trying to have an individual 
 system of land ownership. 
 
 QUESTION: It is commonly considered in the United States that Mr. 
 
 —63— 
 
Hearst owns 7,000,000 acres of land in Mexico; and is he one of those who is 
 having the land taken away to be cultivated? 
 
 ANSWER: That report is not true. Mr. Hearst only owns about 450,000 
 acres of land in Chihuahua and another small portion in Colima; Mr. Hearst 
 has refused to ask payment for this land at this time. 
 
 R. O. M. 
 
 S ENOR RICARDO TREVINO, General Secretary of Federation of Labor of 
 Mexicoj addressed the group following a luncheon at Sanborn’s restaurant 
 Saturday, August 7. Daniel Gish and Professor Tolbert Reavis were the inter¬ 
 preters. Senor Trevino said: 
 
 According to the wishes of Mr. Gish, I shall speak to you about the inhuman 
 treatment of the industries that are working in Mexico towards the Mexican 
 working men. I was elected as General Secretary of the Federation of Labor 
 in recognition of my former work when I was working the coal mines in the 
 state of Coahuila. In the coal mines of Coahuila I was one of the carpenters 
 putting in the timbers in the mines, the supports. There were mines of all kinds, 
 gold, silver and other metal mines, and all were in the hands of large cor¬ 
 porations, many of them of the United States—such as The American Smelt¬ 
 ing, Minerals & Metals, Company. 
 
 The consumption of coal in this country is limited, except in the industrial 
 plants. The coal mines are sometimes 6x9 feet, but this is an exception, be¬ 
 cause the coal mines are generally two, three or four feet. The miners in the 
 United States have much better protection than we have aud they get very 
 much higher wages than the miners get down here. For every ton of coal that 
 they take out here they have to take out much more rock. That is, for one 
 car of coal they will have at least one car of rock. The men here receive 
 about one-third cf the salaries of the men in the coal mines in the United States.. 
 They have to work more hours and they also do about four times as much 
 work. They receive one dollar American money per day. The coal mines must 
 have supports of wood in order to protect the miners from the caving in of the 
 mines. Every meter there must be a support to prevent the caving in. The 
 cost of this work of supporting from caving in represents about 15 per cent 
 of the cost of production. The metal mines and the coal mines throughout the 
 country have not even one-half enough of the supports necessary to protect 
 the lives of ^the miners. In the most dangerous part cf the mine they send 
 the miners in to take out the old supports, thus endangering their lives, in 
 order to put these old supports in new places. 
 
 The transporting of the material and taking to the point of carrying out 
 represents about 10 per cent of the production. Then they run cars loaded 
 with coal down a slide incline without any control on the cars. There are at 
 least fifteen cars at a time; this is done in order to avoid furnishing the motive 
 power. They have boys of fourteen or fifteen years of age who put clubs of 
 wood in between the wheels of these cars to hold them from going down hill 
 so fast. Of course they have run away cars for lack of br,\kes. The result 
 is there are about 52 per cent of the men working in the mines killed each year 
 or injured. According to the statistics in the department of industry, commerce 
 and labor, 90,000 men are losing their lives every two years. As a miner I was 
 injured six times while placing supports. 
 
 With the oil companies, the inhuman treatment they mete out to the 
 workers is still worse. In the oil zone it is excessively hot. Great quantities of 
 
 — 64 — 
 
oil flow over the ground, making life almost unbearable. The people who 
 work for the oil companies do not have houses to live in, but only huts, just 
 coverings. They have no medical treatment. When a man is injured they have 
 to carry him long distances in order to get him medical aid. The companies 
 will tell you they have beautiful surroundings, ice plants, medical attention 
 and hospitals, but they are not for the workers; they are for the general 
 manager and his assistants. It is positively inhuman the way these men are 
 treated. I can prove this from the manager of the Aguila Company, when I 
 was working there in 1915 to 1918. I was kicked out of the restaurant where 
 only the Americans and Europeans were allowed to eat; the Mexicans were not 
 allowed to eat there. Of course thre were a few Mexicans who held higher 
 positions who were allowed to eat there. The place in which the ordinary 
 laborers ate their food was in a place without ventilation, unsanitary, with 
 very bad food. There was a first and a second class eating place. The first was 
 where they had better food. In order to get first class food one paid for a 
 meal ticket. In spite of having paid for eating in a decent place, I was 
 forced to eat in an unventilated hut. A man who has any opinion of himself 
 at all will not submit to being treated in that way in his own country. I 
 objected to this treatment. To object is a very grave offense. No matter how 
 they treated me I had no right to make any objection. They are feudal barons’ 
 places. They do anything they like. When the soldiers and the police do not 
 help the foreigners to maltreat the Mexican employees, that is when you hear 
 a great great outcry in the American newspapers how Mexico is treating Amer¬ 
 ican capital. 
 
 Mexico does not have anything but natural resources and men to do the 
 work. We are naturally very much interested that our natural resources are 
 properly defended from capital. But they are not only exploiting the natural 
 resources but the people as well. The capitalists of the United States must 
 understand where terminates the exploitation of the natural resources and 
 where begins the exploitation of the Mexican people. The legislature of the 
 country in Article 133 established this limitation. The limitation consists in 
 the form of a labor law, making the day of the laborer only eight hours, with 
 the salary sufficient to support his family; providing that women and the 
 children must not work at night, that when a woman is going to give birth to a 
 child, she shall not work for a period of three months before giving birth to 
 the child, that all children under twelve years of age shall not work, that the 
 workmen shall have a right to declare a strike when the employers do not 
 comply with these conditions. When the government attempts to protect the 
 workers under the Constitution, you get reports in the United States that 
 Mexico does not protect capital. 
 
 Mexico is a country which is constituted entirely different from the 
 United States. The United States was colonized at the start by a group of 
 colonists from Europe. Mexico had its origin in a group of conquerors. Be¬ 
 tween the conquerors and the colonists there is a tremendous difference. When 
 the conquerors arrived in this country, they came to make a war of conquest, 
 to take possession of the land and the people. The King of Spain authorized 
 these acts, giving them titles to land. They had tremendous land holdings. 
 This land was always kept in the family from the father to the son. The 
 revolution which crystalized in Article 27 of the Constitution has endeavored to 
 divide this property in favor of the Indians in the little pueblos. The Constitu¬ 
 tion also establishes that all this land which shall be taken for the purpose of 
 giving some land to the Indians, shall be paid for also. In spite of the fact that 
 the revolutionary government does not recognize that these men have a just 
 claim to the property, but to avoid the impression that it was dispoiling them 
 
 — 66 — 
 
of their lands, it will pay them for their lands. That they have not been paid 
 for up until now is because these great land holders have refused to recognize 
 the bonds with which they are to be paid. This is what is called on the outside 
 of our country the dispoiling of land. 
 
 Before the revolution the laborer earned from twelve to eighteen centavos 
 per day, eighteen centavos bein gthe maximum. The great estates were fenced 
 in on four sides. In the middle are the houses of the workingmen. The doors 
 or gates were closed at six o’clock or even 5 o’clock in the afternoon; they 
 were opened at four or five in the morning. These were closed thus early in 
 order to prevent the peons from escaping and not paying their debts, because 
 they were always in debt. In sight of these miserable hovels was the house of 
 the owner and of the parish priest. These priests alwsy preached humility 
 and allegiance to the land lord, but never did they do anything for the poor 
 miserable wretches. This is explained perfectly well Vhen you remember that 
 these priests are from the same privileged classes. Thus we have an explana¬ 
 tion of the lethargy of the priest in not doing anything for these poor people. 
 
 I wish to refer you to a gasoline problem in 1922. There was a difficulty 
 in Tampico with the Aguila company. The company demanded protection from 
 the American government. The strike was for the right of organizing labor 
 unions. It lasted six months. There must be an explanation for such a 
 happening. The American oil interests were induced to discuss this matter 
 with the C. R. O. M. after a long time; but the workmen of this company first 
 had to declare a strike before they would discuss with the C. R. 0. M. After 
 four months of this strike, the manager of the Aguila Company, Mr. Jacobson, 
 came to see me in my office, to tell me the following: That the oil interests 
 of America wanted to get into their hands the controlling interests of the 
 Aguila and the Corona companies and that they were just deceiving the head 
 office in London (the headquarters were in London), keeping up this strike 
 in order to keep the stock low, in order that they might capture the oil 
 markets. Mr. Jacobson said he was disposed to immediately arrange this mat¬ 
 ter with the C. R. O. M., and sign a contract with the workers. The contract 
 with the workers was signed and the strike terminated in one week. Two or 
 three weeks afterwards, Mr. Jacobson was called to London and succeeded by 
 a new manager. This will show you that in many cases the Avorkmen of 
 Mexico are the victims of a competition of capitalists of the different nations 
 which are trying to control our oil interests in this country. 
 
 QUESTION: How about workmen being discharged? We were told by a 
 big shoe manufacturer that the government was not exactly just in its employ¬ 
 ment and discharge of working men in their munition factories near him, for 
 they might decide what was a just discharge and discharge a workman without 
 paying him three months’ wages in advance; but that if he discharged a work¬ 
 man, he had to pay him three months’ wages in advance. 
 
 ANSWER: That is not so. There is a committee which hears all these 
 complaints and will decide them. I know of many cases where they have been 
 decided against the working man and in favor of the employer. 
 
 QUESTION: What kind of coal mines are there in Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: They are an average of 150 meters deep. Some of the metal 
 mines have an average depth of 400 meters. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the employees in the government factories unionized? 
 
 ANSWER: The government has two classes of factories. The principal 
 establishments are where they manufacture things for the army, and then the 
 manufacture of arms. In the first, the right of forming unions is recognized as 
 elsewhere. In the second, they have the right to associate themselves for im¬ 
 proving themselves and for social purposs, but they do not have the right to go 
 
 — 66 — 
 
on a strike, as they are manufacturing' things for national safety. They have 
 the right to meet every week with the director of this establishment and the 
 heads of the different departments of the establishment; and they have the 
 right to discuss matters with these heads. 
 
 QUESTION: Are they associated with the C. R. O. M.? 
 
 ANSWER: Both. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the policemen and firemen associated with the C. R. O. M. 
 and unionized? 
 
 ANSWER: Not unionized, but affiliated with the C. R. 0. M. 
 
 QUESTION: The demonstration that was held on Sunday, was it under the 
 orders of the government or free? That is, we were told that these employees 
 of the government were forced to respond in order not to lose their jobs or 
 positions. Is that true? 
 
 ANSWER: This was under the direction of the special syndicate of 
 
 federations of the Federal District. The approval of this movement was voted 
 upon; the delegates voted as to whether they would do this as an approval of the 
 government not only in this fight with the church but as a vote of confidence in 
 all of its struggles. 
 
 QUESTION: In the press of August 2 it is stated that the payments of 
 employees of the government were held until they had granted their allegiance 
 to the government. Is that true? 
 
 ANSWER: Absolutely no. The C. R. O. M. marched in the manifestation; 
 many of the employees of the government are members of the C. R. 0. M,, but 
 not all employees of the government are members of the C. R. O. M. The C. 
 R. 0. M. was invited by the government employees to get in line and march in 
 this manifestation. But it was the just act of the C. R. O. M. to see that none 
 of the government employees were pitting themselves against the government. 
 They felt that it was not right to have enemies of the government in there. 
 In other words, who are the enemies and who are the friends of the govern¬ 
 ment? The C. R. O. M. put it up to the government to put out the enemies 
 of the government. In spite of the fact that they might be enemies of the 
 government. General Calles said they had a right to live and were, therefore, 
 entitled to their employment. It might be that some of these workers circulated 
 this rumor that they were required to do so. There are those, too, who will 
 guarantee that ten thousand soldiers dressed like working men were in this 
 demonstration, thus making as small as they can the number of friends of the 
 government. 
 
 QUESTION: How many people were in that parade that day? 
 
 ANSWER: We have no real figures. It is estimated there were more than 
 100,000. Army officers who are expert say that. 
 
 QUESTION: We have been told by some business men that for discharging 
 an employee without good cause, one has to pay three months’ wages. 
 
 ANSWER: Article 123 of fhe Constitution says that no man can be dis¬ 
 charged from his work without a just cause and when the boss discharges him 
 without a justification, then he has to indemnify him with three months’ wages. 
 This is what the law says. When he is discharged without good cause, he can 
 bring charges againsit the employer before the courts and the courts determine 
 whether there was a just cause or not. When the workman loses, he naturally 
 charges there was an injustice. If the employer loses the case, he naturally 
 makes the charge of injustice. Generally these employers have good lawyers to 
 attend to their business, and generally the lawyers for the working man are 
 “shysters” or just plain lawyers. 
 
 QUESTION: Can an employer give three months’ notice in advance and 
 avoid the three months’ payment? 
 
 — 67 — 
 
ANSWER: According to the law in the Federal District, he cannot. The 
 workmen do not endorse this way. 
 
 QUESTION: Supposing a man is discharged without notice and he claims 
 three months’ pay, what does he do to get it? 
 
 ANSWER: His union takes up the case for him. His union stands between 
 him and his employer. He takes it to the Secretary of the Union and they 
 have a special man who takes it up with the courts, in the special department 
 which was organized and which is known as the labor court. It is more or 
 less an arbitration. But they have full authority to take it up to this court of 
 arbitration. 
 
 QUESTION: We are also told that a case is never decided in favor of an 
 imployer but always in favor of the employee. 
 
 ANSWER: I can cite many cases in favor of the employer. 
 
 The Mexican Labor Movement 
 
 D r. J. H. Rettinger, author of a history of the Mexican labor movement 
 soon to be published in England under the title, “Morones of Mexico,” 
 noted as a scho’ar, spoke before the Taylor group in its conference room at the 
 Princess hotel Friday afternoon, August 6. Speaking in English, he said: 
 
 The basis of the labor movement in Mexico is that workmen could not 
 live on what they were getting as salaries. They were fighting for existence. 
 The labor question in Central America, South America, and Mexico has been 
 pretty much the same. The laborer was working for from five to fourteen 
 hours a day and receiving from ten to twenty centavos for this hard labor. 
 Of course he could not subsist on it. He certainly could not pay for his barest 
 needs and he could not spend any money on education. In primary education 
 only was there anything done outside of some of the big cities and Mexico 
 City. Therefore, in 1913, what the government first tried to do was to establish 
 some primary schools. Since then there have been some 11,000 schools estab¬ 
 lished in the Republic of Mexico. They still have need of 20,000 more. 
 
 Until 1911 the workman here was not treated as a workman; he was 
 treated inhumanly and there was nothing to prevent this. There was no group 
 or union or association from whom he could get any protection. You must 
 remember that there has always been the difference in race here. It has not 
 been as it has always been in England where both the employer and the 
 worker were English. There has been for four hundred years this difference 
 here between those who came from Europe and those born in Mexico. When 
 the Spanish made the conquest these people were looked upon like serfs of the 
 middle ages in Europe or like the old Roman slaves. He was not admitted 
 to the same community as white men. Many times even officially the Spanish 
 authorities denied the existence of a brotherhood between the native Indians 
 and the Spaniards. That is how the labor problem was for the native at the 
 beginning of the nineteenth century. 
 
 The first organization of labor in Mexico was started by a man by the name 
 of Idar from the United States, but a Mexican by birth, who came here in 
 1888 and tried to found a lodge of the railroad men. This lasted only a few 
 months. There was no association for the working man at all except a few 
 ritualistic, philanthropic institutions. At the end of the century there was 
 some momentum in labor matters and several associations were started up. 
 The second association of importance was formed in the textile mills in Rio 
 Blanco near Orizaba in 1898. Federal troops took action against the associa- 
 
 — 68 — 
 
tion and there were about seventy-eight killed and three hundred wounded in 
 the street fights between the workmen and the troops. The salary then for 
 doing twelve hours was about twenty-five American cents. Between 1908 and 
 1911 some few attempts to form unions were made. With the revolution of 
 1910 the Casa Obrera Mundial tried to organize the labor movement in Mexico, 
 but they didn’t succeed for two reasons. First, in 1913 the government was 
 under the military lead of Victoriano Huerta. He governed for about one and 
 a half years. He was against much of this organization. But after he was gone 
 and President Carranza came to the oifice, General Obregon succeeded in 
 getting some members of the working group' organized. They were from the 
 proletariat in Queretaro and many other places, and by them there was included 
 in the constitution of 1917 the first legislation on their behalf. One year 
 later, at the instigation of Morones, Salcedo and Barragan it was decided to 
 form the General Federation of Labor, and at the first conference they formed 
 the first real Mexican union and what is now known as La Confederacion 
 Region Obrera Mexicana, but usually known under its intials C. R. O. M. 
 
 The next convention of this new federation took place in 1919 with 103 
 delegates assisting, representing fourteen states and about 40,000 members. 
 The C. R. O. M. now has 1,400,000 members. It is today probably the most 
 important power of its kind in Mexico. I say this of it, why? Because it is an 
 associate of the constitutional government of General Obregon and President 
 Calles. The labor movement never tried to take any active part in the govern¬ 
 ment of this country. And they supported all through the revolution, and 
 what is more always tried to keep in good relations with some organization 
 like the American Federation of Labor in the United States. 
 
 What was Gompers relation to the labor movement in Mexico? Gompers 
 was most interested from the very start in the possibility of a confederation 
 of Mexican workers. In 1919 at the Mexican meeting at Laredo, with some 
 1600 representatives, they succeeded in forming a basis for the joining of the 
 American Federation of Labor. This was the first time Gompers had anything 
 to do with Mex'ico. He liked it here. He came again later and then in 1923 
 and a little later before he died. Mexicans could count upon him in support of 
 their claim in international affairs and in this country. He had nothing to do 
 with actual organization work. The American Federation of Labor has sent 
 us delegates from time to time. The Mexicans sent representatives several 
 times to the American Federation to see how it was organized. 
 
 What is the relationship between the C. R. 0. M. and the Catholic church? 
 The Catholic church has nothing to do with the C. R. 0. M. and the C. R. O. M. 
 nothing to do with the Catholic church. In some few cases when the church 
 has decided to interfere with either the social or political questions of Mexico, 
 it has fought the C. R. O. M. It fought the C. R. O. M. for many years because 
 it was taking away many Catholics. The church has attempted to organize 
 labor among its members. In 1922 it started to organize a political-social 
 movement. The C. R. O. M. did not think it worthwhile to fight. The organiza¬ 
 tion was never strong. I do not think the total membership of the Catholic church 
 union was ever over 25,000, whereas the C. R. 0. M. now numbers 1,400,000. 
 
 The average daily salary of the C. R. O. M. workers in such places as 
 Monterey is about one peso and a half and the average salary of the non- 
 organized workman is not more than forty centavos a day. These workers who 
 are not organized realize that they profit by being organized. When they or¬ 
 ganize now, how does the C. R. 0. M. help them? When a new union is formed, 
 the central offices of the C. R. O. M. send out a small library, generally com¬ 
 posed of thirty volumes which treat on the general questions about co-operation 
 and duties of citizenship, and they send them periodically publications that 
 
 — 69 — 
 
treat on the same subject. They also send out representatives to start the 
 new union or organization. As to the business and agricultural workers, it is 
 done differently. In the city of Guanajuato they organized from the adjacent 
 towns. There the C. R. O. M. started about four unions in 1918. They now 
 are all members of the C. R. O. M. and of the co-operative groups. Today 
 there are about sixty-four unions in Guanajuato. 
 
 Are they like the I. W. W. Have they a philosophy thought out? The 
 majority of the laborers are very ignorant. They know only one thing, that 
 they have been starving and they want to stop starving. The laborers have 
 their work. You cannot compare labor here with that in the United States. 
 Here illiteracy is very great. It is said there is about 65 per cent. Prominent 
 business men intimate that these men who make up these labor organizations 
 are so ignorant that you can make Catholics of them or Protestants of them 
 in twenty-four hours. I don’t believe it. 
 
 Are the labor unions in Yucatan allied wdth the C. R. O. M.? Both allied 
 and a part of the C. R. 0. M., but owing to the distance there, leaders cannot 
 go there from the central offices as well as to some other parts. Felipe Carrillo, 
 the great leader and organizer there in Yucatan for over three years did much 
 to organize labor; he was treasurer or vice-president of the C. R. O. M. when 
 he died. 
 
 What has the government to do with the management of the C. R. O. 
 M.? Absolutely nothing. What has the C. R. O. M. to do with the manage¬ 
 ment of politics? Entirely by leaders. The particular leader of labor is 
 Morones and he is minister in Calles’ cabinet. Calles was elected with labor 
 votes. Obregon effected the defeat of Carranza with labor votes. 
 
 QUESTION: My impression was that labor is a powerful factor in the 
 government; that the government managed the C. R. O. M. politically. 
 
 ANSWER: No, only a small part of the activities of the C. R. O. M. are 
 in politics; they do not run to politics. There is complete peace and mutual 
 understanding between CaTes and the C. R. O. M. Calles was the first leader 
 of the masses in Mexico. Many times he has declared himself to be a labor 
 man and of the labor party. He did so in New York two years ago, after he 
 was elected for president and before leaving for Europe, and also here in 
 Mexico. So they are working together for understanding and success. The 
 C. R. 0. M. has no relationship with the several state governments of Mexico. 
 
 QUESTION: What relation has the C. R. O. M. to the labor political 
 party? 
 
 ANSWER: It was agreed in 1920 that they needed some way of fighting 
 in Mexican politics, and through the C. R. O. M. the labor party was formed 
 and this labor party talks politics. 
 
 QUESTION: For instance, could they put up their candidate, say a man 
 like Morones for president? Are there sufficient leaders in the labor party 
 to put their candidate in? 
 
 ANSWER: I don’t know. I have just returned from six months being 
 away from Mexico so I am not informed of the present plans of the labor 
 party. 
 
 QUESTION: The leaders of the labor party are largely the leaders of the 
 C. R. 0. M.? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes. Certain of its leaders come from the C. R. O. M., 
 but many of the leaders of the C. R. O. M. do not deal in politics. There 
 are a large number of C. R. O. M. leaders who are not in the labor party. 
 The labor party emanates from the C. R. O. M. 
 
 QUESTION: Is it possible to give the number of members of the labor 
 •party? Are there 5,000 or 10,000? 
 
ANSWER: Yes, easily; in the election of Calles, he received 1,300,000 
 votes; probably one million votes were from the labor party. 
 
 QUESTION: We have been informed by business men here that there 
 was not fair counting of the votes. Do you agree? 
 
 ANSWER: I certainly do not agree. Flores, the counter-candidate, was 
 a man without any prestige. Why should they count badly for him; there was 
 really nobody for him. In some of the cities of the Pacific Coast, in one of 
 which states he was governor, they may have voted largely for Flores, but not 
 in other parts of the Republic. 
 
 QUESTION: Are political standards such now that votes will be carefully 
 counted? 
 
 ANSWER: I think so. In the last elections a short time ago, there was 
 much importance attached to this and they claim that there was much accuracy 
 and care in the counting of votes. 
 
 QUESTION: Is the C. R. O. M. engaged in other advancement? 
 
 ANSWER: One of the things they are now trying to do is to form 
 co-operative societies. The economic conditions of the C. R. O. M. at first were 
 such that they had practically no money. Out of about 600,000 members only 
 about 100,000 paid their quotas. Now it is different; probably 90 per cent pay 
 their quotas regularly, which is a very good percentage. The second endeavor 
 of the C. R. O. M., outside of purely social, is the formation of 2000 small 
 libraries which they send out all over the country. They have also formed many 
 night schools for the working men and women. Here, I believe, there are 
 about forty of them. 
 
 QUESTION: Are the railroad workers members of the C. R. O. M.? 
 
 ANSWER: The railroad workers are not all members of the C. R. O. M. 
 They have been members. The railroad workers were associated with the C. R. 
 O. M. until 1922 when they formed a distinct organization. About one-fourth 
 of the railroad men of Mexico are members of the C. R. O. M. 
 
 Protestant Missionaries 
 
 T he Protestant Missionaries resident in Mexico City came to the conference 
 room in the Princess hotel on the second day of the group’s visit, to answer 
 questions concerning their experiences. The stenographic report of the dis¬ 
 cussion was incomplete. Only a few of the questions and answers, therefore, 
 can be presented. The identity of those who made answers was not reported. 
 Dr. John Howland, a Congregationalist, the recognized “dean” of the missionary 
 forces, presided. 
 
 MR. TAYLOR: We are interested in the Protestant mission group’s atti¬ 
 tude tow'ards the present day religious question. 
 
 ANSWER: We must obey the law, that is the first thing. 
 
 QUESTION: In Czecko Slovakia, where people are turning away in such 
 tremendous proportions from the Catholic church to the Protestant church, 
 the people coming from the Catholic church with its appeal to color and beauty 
 do not feel at home. Do you feel that the Protestant church here is trying to 
 appeal to the artistic and colorful? In Czecko Slovakia the Congregational 
 church has a very conservative theology, with individualistic rather than social 
 points of view. Is the Protestant church social here? 
 
 ANSWER: Some of our Mexican pastors are very individualistic. People 
 frequently go to extremes, absolutely turning away from old forms. We find 
 in some of the churches a very strong tendency to break away from all the 
 
 — 71 — 
 
forms of the Catholic church; for instance, they insist that there shall be no 
 Biblical pictures, no sculpturing or images, fearing that they might have to 
 bow to them. They also insist on an unvested choir and refuse to come to the 
 front in order to partake of the Holy Communion. 
 
 QUESTION: Do you think it is the foreign missionaries or the native 
 people who are most interested in perpetuating denominational lines? 
 
 ANSWER: The lines are brought in by foreigners but the perpetuation 
 today is more by the Mexican than by the foreigner. Some of the Mexican 
 pastors are intense denominationalists. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the attitude of the Protestant Mexican people to 
 the missionaries from the United States? 
 
 ANSWER: Usually the very best of friends, the best you can get. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a movement for an independent native organization? 
 
 ANSWER: Decidedly, they are practically running it. We recently had 
 the big annual meeting of the synod in our church and some of us had been 
 afraid for several weeks, wondering what the Mexican people thought of us, 
 and wondering if they would not be glad to see us go. There was a two and a 
 half day discussion of the missionary and his work and what his relation to the 
 Mexican Presbyterian church would be. I was surprised and very happy. None 
 of them wanted us to leave the country and they gave us a list of things we 
 could still do and things they wanted us to do in Mexico. We still have a lot 
 of work to do here. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the number of adherents to the Mexican Protestant 
 church? 
 
 ANSWER: We have no definite information but I should say between 
 thirty and forty thousand, although our enemies say fifty thousand. 
 
 QUESTION: How many are there in Mexico City? 
 
 ANSWER: I should say about three or four thousand. 
 
 QUESTION: How many ordained Mexican Protestant ministers are there 
 in Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: About four hundred. 
 
 QUESTION: How many people do you reach with your influence? 
 
 ANSWER: The Protestant gospel has spread over the whole country. 
 Everywhere the influence is to be seen. Formerly in the Catholic churches 
 there were no benches; now they have benches and there is also very fine preach¬ 
 ing in many of the churches. There are also good talks during the Rosario 
 which is an afternoon service. In the various government departments you 
 will find that most of the heads are Protestant. We are stronger than any¬ 
 where else in the Department of Education because they recognize the fact 
 that there is real value and worth to our work. We have members in Congrss 
 and in all departments of the government. 
 
 QUESTION: What percentage of the public school teachers are Protes¬ 
 tant? 
 
 ANSWER: We do not know, but there is a very large percentage, con¬ 
 sidering the Protestant church membership. 
 
 QUESTION: Is a man handicapped in politics if he be a Protestant? 
 
 ANSWER: In the old days it would have been impossible, now it makes 
 no difference. But we discourage our men from getting into politics. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a coordination of Protestant Mexican forces in 
 Mexico? 
 
 ANSWER: A committee of cooperation has held monthly meetings for 
 the past ten years. There was one Mexican and one foreigner for each de¬ 
 nomination in that body. At the meeting this month a committee was appointed 
 to arrange for a federal council of Protestant Mexican churches, that will be 
 
 — 72 — 
 
purely national, without foreigners. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a youth movement in Mexico, breaking down a 
 lot of old conventions and barriers? 
 
 ANSWER: There is, decidedly. We had last February a congress of 
 Mexican Methodist girls. They did not want anyone over thirty years of age 
 to have anything to say in the congress. They asked more freedom to ex¬ 
 press their ideas. We had 2527 members. During their congress they spent 
 a week deciding whether they would take a stand on war. They reached 
 the conclusion that they condemned war, but when somebody brought up the 
 matter of intervention from the North they all decided they would take 
 sticks and stones and everything e’se they could lay their hands on and fight. 
 They had no discussion on industrialism. They said they wanted the teaching 
 of Jesus applied, and said that all of us are one blood. 
 
 QUESTION: There are Mexican young people in the United States 
 
 who come from the Protestant church of Mexico, What shall we do with 
 them? 
 
 ANSWER: I would like to see them trained as leaders and sent back 
 to Mexico because it is the crying need of Mexico. 
 
 QUESTION: Do the Mexicans accept these men who come back more 
 or less Americanized? 
 
 ANSWER: They are proud of them, yet a little bit jealous. This, how¬ 
 ever, depends entirely on the individual. 
 
 QUESTION: What is the Y. M. C. A. doing? 
 
 MR. TAYLOR, General Secretary of the Y. M. C. A.: We have recently 
 attempted to enlarge our work. We put on a drive in October during which 
 we received over ha’f a million pesos. Some of this money is being spent for 
 the remodeling .of the central building and in opening new centers—-one for 
 industrial workers in the eastern part of the city, and a recreation park in 
 the western part of the city. The government has contributed very generous¬ 
 ly. Our greatest influence has been in the field of physical culture and 
 physical education. Our physical education director is now on a trip arrang¬ 
 ing for various sport engagements for the coming months. We are deeply 
 interested in the social application of Christianity. 
 
 A. W. TAYLOR: We believe there is an emancipation on in Mexico. 
 Do the leaders feel they owe any debt to the Protestant influence? 
 
 ANSWER: Do you refer to revolutionary leaders or intellectual leaders? 
 
 A. W. TAYLOR: I refer to both. 
 
 ANSWER: If you refer to the men of action of today who represent 
 the government and the labor groups, my opinion is there has not been any 
 deep recognition of any part by the Protestant church. Two lectures were 
 given on this subject at the summer school. The history of Mexico was re¬ 
 viewed in its present crisis but no reference was made to Protestantism and 
 its influence in Mexico. One man who lectured was a product of our school 
 but he made no mention of the Protestant influence. 
 
 QUESTION: In the viewpoint of Protestant missionaries, do they feel 
 that the present situation in Mexico is indebted to Protestantism? 
 
 DR. OSUNA: You must remember that Mexico has been practically 
 controlled by prejudice throughout history. There is a prejudice against 
 Americans and there is a prejudice against Protestants. Many hesitate to ex¬ 
 press their opinion but privately they admit the influence of the Protestant 
 church. To illustrate the attitude of the government towards us, the govern¬ 
 ment has said that they prefer teachers of Protestant training because they 
 can impart knowledge more intelligently and fairly. 
 
 I wish to say something in regard to the recognition of the leaders in 
 
 73 
 
the government towards Protestant schools. This, of course, is confidential 
 and I shall mention no names. I received a telephone call from one of the 
 ministers of the cabinet and he wished to talk to me about securing a school 
 in which to place four orphans in whom he was interested. He said there were 
 plenty of schools around here where he could place the children but he wanted 
 them placed in a Protestant school. Another man did the same a year ago; 
 he said distinctly he wanted a Protestant school. Furthermore the President 
 of the Republic sent his protege to a Protestant school. The minister of 
 the Interior had his daughter in a convent but before the convent was closed 
 he took her out of there and put her in a Protestant school. While speaking 
 to the Minister of Interior he mentioned the fact that in no single instance 
 had they ever had trouble with a Protestant because they have all learned 
 to obey the law and keep it. 
 
 An Indian School 
 
 D r. J. W. PUTNAM, chairman of a subcommittee of the Taylor group on 
 Mexican education, reported August 5 on a visit to a school for Indians 
 in Mexico City: 
 
 One hundred and eighty-five Indian boys appointed by the governors of 
 the states are in this school. These boys have their first opportunity to speak 
 Spanish. They all speak various Indian dia’ects. It was odd to find that two 
 could speak English; they came from near the border. This school was opened 
 in January, this year. The boys all live there. Their aim is to have the boys 
 brought into this school learn what the home is; they live there in a group; 
 they take their meals together. They go to the various public schools to 
 which they are assigned, depending on the grade of the student and what he 
 is capable of doing. They have school book training and vocational training 
 in the public schools; they all take some type of vocational work. 
 
 In their school there is a keen young fellow, the physical director. From 
 him they are learning to take care of their bodies. Everybody there must learn 
 to speak Spanish; it is to be the living language. In fact, they all do speak 
 Spanish now. It is interesting how some of those little fellows who have had 
 only two or three months training in Spanish are able to speak. We are 
 entertained by their singing. They sang some songs to show how well they 
 can sing in Spanish. Most of these boys did not know any Spanish at all 
 when they began in January. We also listened to declamations. They seem 
 dramatic; it was rather native to them; although many of the boys did not 
 understand what they were saying, they have the style of real orators. 
 
 They are taught how to live under modern conditions. The young man 
 in charge tells us that on the first night they put the boys in their beds. 
 After the lights were out, they went through to look after them and found 
 many of them under the beds. They had never slept in a bed before. All 
 of the sanitary conditions are most up-to-date. They have a small ward 
 for contagious disease^, well equipped. The purpose of the government 
 is to teach these children Spanish, teach them how to take care of themselves, 
 and later how to work, all of which ideas they are to carry back to the tribes 
 or villages in which they will be the leaders. They are to help to make the 
 lives of their people better. I do think that year after year the boys 
 who come into this school and then go back to their people will make ex¬ 
 cellent leaders. 
 
 — 74 — 
 
Important Documents 
 
 C ERTAIN Mexico City newspaper reports of governmental regulations and 
 announcements in the period immediately preceding August 1, when the 
 penal code covering the religious principles of the Mexican constitution 
 became effective, are included in this report, in translation, because of their 
 aid to clearer understanding. 
 
 The following article was translated from Excelsior, July 21; 
 
 “The notice published by the Excelsior in regard to the assumed atti¬ 
 tude of the Attorney General of the nation as delivered to the Department 
 of the Interior, who in turn delivered same to the Judge of the first district, 
 towards the thirty-seven priests who refused to make oath and give data to the 
 Council of the Capital (Mexico City) on the information asked for, which 
 is a part of the act in Paragraph II of Article 130 of the General Constitu¬ 
 tion of the Republic, caused in all social classes and principally in the genuine 
 Catholic element of the capital a genuine sensation. 
 
 “The assignation of those priests which was reported to the public ex¬ 
 clusive'y by this paper, produced anticipation although not much surprise, but 
 in the Catholic element it was conjectured that there had been a previous 
 agreement among the priests of the Roman Catholic church in regard to the 
 line of conduct which they should follow in the enforcement of the above 
 mentioned article 130 of the federal charter. 
 
 “Now, the news in regard to the assignation of the aforesaid priests has 
 been fudy confirmed and for this purpose we have been given the names of all 
 those whom the Judge of the District will from today commence to examine. 
 The agent of the Department of the Interior appointed by the Judge of the 
 First District, Attorney Roman, yesterday applied to the Council of the 
 Capital asking them for data and the antecedents in regard to the circular 
 or notice circulated amongst the priests who officiate in Mexico and the 
 response given by them to the said circular. In the succeeding action taken 
 by the Council on this matter, it is clear from the replies that the priests gave 
 to the Circular which was distributed amongst them, that they had been for¬ 
 bidden to give or render any information asked for; which instructions were 
 given to them by His Excellency, the Archbishop of Mexico, Dr. Jose Mora 
 y del Rio. There existed such an uniformity in the above mentioned replies 
 that all of the priests, in the document directed to the mayor of the city, 
 end with the following religious phrase: ‘May God watch over you for 
 many years.’ The text of the circular and the replies of the priests con¬ 
 demned served as a basis for the process, which the Judge of the First Dis¬ 
 trict has commenced to formulate and in which shall be included the state¬ 
 ments rendered by each one of those indicted in order to fully review this 
 matter. 
 
 “The priests who are the subject of this judicial inquiry, as well as the 
 paidshes to which they belong, are as follows: Jesus Franco, of the Church 
 of Porta-Coeli; Andres Ibarra of Jesus the Nazarene; Jose Ugarte of Mon- 
 serrat; Antonio R. Espinosa of St. James; Jose Ma. Araiza of Our Lady of 
 Guadalupe (Buen Tono) ; Salvador M. Garciduenas, of the Church of the 
 Sanctuary of Our Lady of the Angels; Juan M. Escobar of the Church of 
 Bethlehem of Mercedarios: Adrian M. Cervantes, of the Expiatory Temple of 
 St. Phillip of Jesus; Maclovio Ramirez Lozano, of the Parish of St. Joseph; 
 Carlos M. Velez, of the Parish of St. Catherine the Martyr; Fernando Marin, 
 of the Church of St. Michael; Juan C. Villegas, of the Church of St. Ferdinand; 
 Pedro Benavides of the Church of St. Jerome; Luis Benitez of the Church 
 
 — 75 — 
 
of St. Ferdinand; J. Ramirez of the Church of St. Bridget; Tomas Moreno 
 of the Church of the Regina Coeli; Alejandro Silva of the Church of Little 
 St. Jerome; Enrique Hernandez of the Church of Manzanares; Luis Montes 
 de Oco of the Church of the Sacred Heart; Jesus G. Guerra of the House 
 of Prayer of the Sacred Heart; Domingo S. Blancas of the Asylum of Matias 
 Romero; Luis Careaga of the Church of Sta. Maria la Redonda; Ismael A. 
 Laguna of the Church of the Immaculate Conception; Fernado Benian of 
 the Parish of Guadalupe; Manuel Tiberio Olio of the Church of Carmen; 
 Cipriano Jimenez of the Church of Campo Florido; Raul Silva of the Church 
 of the Sacred Heart, (formerly St, Inez) ; Mariano Navarro of the Church of 
 the Rosary; and without any definite parish Messrs. M. Martinez and Mauricio 
 Quintas. 
 
 “Besides, there have also been condemned the parsons of the temples of 
 Our Lady of Loreto, of the Holy Spirit, of Santo Domingo, of St. Lucas and 
 of the House of Prayer of G. F. Pimental.” 
 
 The issuance of rules governing private primary schools was reported 
 by Excelsior July 23: 
 
 “Yesterday at mid-day the President of the Republic signed the decree 
 for the inspection and guarding of the private primary schools of the District 
 and of the Federated Territories. Said decree contains a radical reform in 
 the rules published by the Minister of Education and decides at the same time 
 the points which were left to arbitration after the discussion of the said rules 
 by the combined cornmittees representing the Department of Education and 
 the private schools, including the Catholic schools. The regulations provide 
 that, at once, all instruction which shall be imparted in these private schools, 
 whether incorporated or not, shall be secular; that v/ithin the schools, 
 even when there are boarders, that is, when they are after a manner 
 homes, there shall not exist either chapels or place reserved for prayer; 
 neither shall there be any sketches or charts of a religious nature. All of these 
 schools are under the same official, watchful restriction in the matter of 
 hygiene and of educational programs. Beginning yesterday, the date of 
 enforcement of this decree, there shall be granted to the principals of these 
 private schools a period of grace in which to announce that they have put their 
 institutions in full accord with the said rules. 
 
 “Yesterday (the very day) there was sent to the Secretary of the Interior 
 the Regulation above referred to, which reads as follows: 
 
 CHAPTER I. 
 
 Primary Private Schools in General. 
 
 Art. 1. Private primary schools are decreed to be those which are main¬ 
 tained with private funds. In these, the teaching shall be secular; that is to 
 say, religion shall not be taught, defended nor attacked in any manner what¬ 
 soever. 
 
 Art. 2. These schools may be of two classes: (1) Incorporated under the 
 Department of Education; (2) Unincorporated. , 
 
 Art. 3. The incorporated schoo's shall be those that accept the official 
 programs, those that develop to the extent and with the intensity that is re¬ 
 quired in the similar official schools and which respond to the obligations 
 as placed by this rule. The certificates that are issued to these schools 
 shall have the same value as those of the official schools. 
 
 Art. 4. The unincorporated schools are those which do not meet the 
 requirements enumerated in the former article. The certificates issued to 
 
 — 76 - 
 
him shall not have the same value as those of the official schools. 
 
 Art. 5. The establishment of a school may only be accomplished after 
 those interested shall have made a declaration or statement before the De¬ 
 partment of Education, containing: (1) A rough sketch or drawing made on 
 a scale of actual measurements; (2) The designation and location of the 
 school: Through or by the designation of the school, the school shall have 
 no qualifying word to indicate that it has or is of a religious nature, nor a 
 single qualification to indicate that it is dependent upon religious corpo¬ 
 rations or orders; (3) The kind or class of teaching, whether elementai'y or 
 upper class teaching, whether day or night, that shall be given in it; (4) The 
 greatest number of boarding school pupils possible, as well as the “half” 
 boarding pupils and day pupils that shall be admitted; (5) Whether the 
 teaching shall be gratuitous or remunerative; (6) Whether incorporated or 
 unincorporated, and its kind. 
 
 CHAPTER II. 
 
 Of the School Premises. 
 
 Art. 6. The primary private schools shall have no hail, room for prayer 
 or chapel especially for religious services, nor in the class rooms, nor in the 
 corridors, nor in the vestibules, nor in the shops, nor in the gymnasium, nor 
 in any other part of the establishment, nor any decorations, pictures, charts, 
 drawings, sculpture or other objects of any religious nature whatsoever. 
 
 Art. 7. The school edifices in regard to hygienic conditions must con¬ 
 form to the regulations of the sanitary code. 
 
 Art. 8. The department of psychopedagogy and hygiene of the Depart¬ 
 ment of Public Education shall judge or determine the hygienic conditions of 
 the buildings and furniture of the private schools in the meaning of Article 396 
 of the Sanitary Code in force. 
 
 CHAPTER III. 
 
 In regard to the teaching force and the pupils. 
 
 Art. 9. To be principal of an incorporated school, the following re¬ 
 quirements must be complied with: (1) One shall have a moral standing 
 for teaching; (2) One shall not be a minister of any faith; (3) One shall be 
 licensed or shall have obtained the title of professor of education or primary 
 instruction, or shall have had five years, when less, of practical teaching or 
 possess the necessary aptitude for it; (4) One shall not have been discharged 
 in the olficial schools for incompetence or bad conduct, duly proven. 
 
 Art. 10. To be director of a school that is not incorporated, it is re¬ 
 quired: (1) One shall have the moral standing for teaching; (2) One shall 
 
 not be a minister of any faith. 
 
 Art. 11. The teachers shall possess the requisites as the respective priiMii- 
 pals excepting that of not being a minister of any faith. 
 
 Art. 12. In each incorporated school, there shall be the principal and 
 the necessary teachers" to the end that no one shall have more than fifty pupils 
 in his charge, nor more than two groups of pupils, excepaing those who teach 
 special subjects. 
 
 Art. 13. The pupils in the private schools shall be of not less than 
 the average according to law, as required in the official primary schoojs. 
 
 CHAPTER IV. 
 
 Official Inspection. 
 
 Art. 14. The Department of Public Education for the advancement of 
 the Department of Primary Education and Normal Instruction, will exercise 
 
 — 77 — 
 
the same inspection in the private schools v/ith the object of procuring com¬ 
 pliance with Article 3 of the Constitution and with this Regulation. 
 
 Art. 15. In the incorporated schools, the inspection of the Department 
 of Primary Normal Instruction shall extend in order to assure; (1) That 
 the course of study shall be the same as the specified curriculum for similar 
 official schools; (2) that the programs of the subjects to be taught shall be 
 developed in accordance with the provision contained in Article 3 of this 
 Regulation; (3) that in principle they shaR adopt the same official text books, 
 that if others shall be adopted, it shall be declared or announced to the De¬ 
 partment of Public Education, which alone can reject them when they shall be 
 contrary to the religious teaching and the public institutions; (5) that they 
 shall follow the same courses as the official schools along educative methods: 
 (1) that on the final examinations they shall adopt the official grading for 
 the promotion of pupils; (2) that they shall render reports on the teaching 
 asked for by the Department! of Education; (3) that they shall render all 
 classes of statistical data on the scholastic operations. 
 
 Art. 16. The incorporated schools shaT follow the quidance of the 
 official inspectors insofar as deficiences observed in the development and in¬ 
 tensity of the programs. 
 
 Art. 17. If the principal of an incorporated school shall not be in ac¬ 
 cord with the guidance of the inspector or the manner of inspection, he shall 
 then make complaint to the Department of Public Education, w'hich, in con¬ 
 sideration of the reports of the inspector, the objections of the principal of 
 the school, from the information solicited and after hearing all points on both 
 sides, shall decide the justice of the case. 
 
 Art. 18. The scholastic year for the incorporated schools shall have at 
 least 185 work days; and each day shall have a minimum of five hours and 
 a maximum of six hours. These scholastic work days shall be freely fixed by 
 the principals of the schools. 
 
 Art. 19. The lack of observance, duly proven, of the regulations for 
 the incorporated schools, in case of failure to correct such, shall give place 
 to disincorporation. 
 
 Art. 20. The temporary or final closing of any school shall be determined 
 by the Department of Public Education, in accordance with the corresponding 
 law, when it has been proven that the actual meaning of religious teaching 
 as in this regulation, has been infringed upon. . 
 
 CHAPTER V. 
 
 Art. 21. The schools of the states that desire to be incorporated by the 
 Department of Public Education shall comply with this regulation and be 
 subject to the inspection of the respective direction of federal public education. 
 
 * Art. 22. The Department of Education shall grant subsidies to the in¬ 
 corporated schools that impart learning gratuitously or should they merit it 
 for special circumstances. 
 
 TRANSITORY—Schools already established shall render within a period 
 of one month, dating from the date of the enforcement of this law, the in¬ 
 formation required in Article 5.” 
 
 El‘Universal published July 23 the following article: 
 
 “We insert below the text of the letter that the Pope directed to the 
 Catholics of the whole world, asking that on the first and second days of 
 August, within the Catholic sphere, there may be an hour’s prayer for 
 Mexico, that the situation created by the various creeds, shall cease. The 
 letter says: 
 
 — 78 — 
 
“ ‘The Holy Father, grieved over the religious persecution in Mexico which 
 continues to increase each day, invites all Catholics to unite with him in the 
 special prayers which shall be sent above on the first and second days of 
 August. 
 
 “ ‘As in the first days of the church, when Peter was imprisoned by 
 Herod, the prayers of ,;the church procured miraculous liberation, so the 
 successor of Peter hopes that the public prayers of the church shall procure 
 the tranquility and peace to her persecuted children in Mexico. 
 
 “ ‘And, as on the second of August, the faithful, through the intercession 
 of St. Francis, whose death was celebrated in the seventh century, seek from 
 God the pardon, as does the Pope desire that we shall ask the pardon of those 
 who may be persecuting us, in order that they may also recognize their offense 
 in taking away from the church the privileges which it does not seek, besides 
 its essential liberty, to which every institution has a right.’ 
 
 “Cardinal Gasparri signs this letter.” 
 
 In the issue of July 23, El Universal published a statement from Senor 
 Tejeda, Minister of the Interior, and discussed it as follows: 
 
 “Engineer Adelberto Tejeda, Secretary of the Interior, did us the favor 
 to give us his opinion in regard to the recent editorial published in El Uni¬ 
 versal. 
 
 “ ‘The press,’ said Mr. Tejeda, ‘in the editorials of the day, has come to 
 discuss the reforms made in the Penal Code in regard to religious matters, 
 mainly those which refer to publications of a confessional or religious nature, 
 and are considered to be in violation of Article 7 of the Constitution through 
 the law enacted August 2 of the present year.” 
 
 “ ‘Article 13 of this law may be judged, omitting the citation of Article 
 130 of the Constitution, which literal’y says: 
 
 “The periodical publications of a confessional character, even by their 
 program, or simply by their ordinary trend, cannot comment upon national 
 political matters nor give information on the acts of the authorities of the 
 country, nor of individuals who are directly connected with the functioning of 
 the public institutions.” 
 
 “ ‘By which it is discerned in a clear and definite manner that the govern¬ 
 ment is acting within the rights granted by the Constitution in having set 
 beside the reforms mentioned the corresponding penal ratification.’ 
 
 “This publication, notwithstanding the opinion of the Minister of the 
 Interior, maintains and continues to maintain that Article 13 of the Law of 
 June 14, 1926, enacted July 2, is unconstitutional. To prove it, it is only 
 necessary to dwell upon that paragraph of Article 130 which is quoted by 
 Minister Tejeda, speaking of publications of a confessional character, as may 
 be seen by their program, by their title or merely by their ordinary trend, 
 inasmuch as the above mentioned Article 13 speaks of ‘periodical publications, 
 religious or MERELY OF MARKED TENDENCIES in favor of a definite 
 religious belief, as much by their program as by their title.’ Under the 
 regulations of this Articlq 13, it may be understood by the agents of the 
 government to apply even to the magazines which could not remotely be 
 considered confessional, for the sole reason that publishing religious notices 
 or religious opinions they may appear to have religious tendencies: inasmuch 
 as the paragraph in regard to Article 130 of the Constitution clearly es¬ 
 tablishes that the restrictions refer to magazines of a ‘confessional nature.’ 
 
 “Besides, in Article 130, it speaks of ‘ordinary tendencies’ or ‘trend’ or 
 it might be ‘common,’ ‘regular,’ according to the meaning given to the word 
 
 79 — 
 
‘ordinary’ by the Dictionary of the Spanish Language: in Article 13 of the 
 Law of Reforms to the Penal Code, it speaks of ‘Marked Tendencies.’ Within 
 this classification of ‘marked,’ accordingly, it might be easily understood from 
 the Minister that it might be within the judgment of the AGENTS OF THE 
 GOVERNMENT, that from the Encyclic of the Pope to the cross in the 
 ‘Prayer to God by him’ in the death announcements. 
 
 “We insist, therefore, that Article 13 is clearly unconstitutional; it shall, 
 therefore, be necessary to proceed always to appeal for protection each time 
 that it shall be applied.” 
 
 Excelsior pub ished August 3 a special dispatch concerning the views of 
 General Obregon, formerly President of Mexico: 
 
 NOGALES, SONORA, AUGUST 2—General of Division Alvaro Obregon, ex¬ 
 president of the Republic, who arrived here today, interviewed in regard to 
 the religious conflict, made the following statements to the Excelsior cor¬ 
 respondent: 
 
 “It is evident that the high dignitaries of the Catholic church have pro¬ 
 voked this conflict, when, by the mouth of their highest representative, Sr. Mora 
 y del Rio, they hurled forth their first statements in a spirit of rebellion against 
 the fundamental laws that are enforced by us. 
 
 “These statements, without having occurred any incident whatsoever to 
 provoke them, concurred with the international crisis which has been provoked 
 or brought about by the great foreign interests which were thought to have 
 been wronged by the enactment of the petroleum and foreign interests laws, 
 and all of us who know the motives of the clergy in the different international 
 conflicts, both political and armed, with which Mexico has had to contend 
 since her independence, must take note that this coincidence was not a mere 
 happening; that that deliberate act had for its purpose the laying up of another 
 difficulty and to show that the discontented foreigners who are within our 
 very own borders had allied themselves to contest our own constitution, thus 
 placing the faith of the believers at the services of political interests. 
 
 “The international crisis was decided sometime ago, but the pride of the 
 high clergy has been too great to be satisfied, and they have dictated a series 
 of commands trying to establish a real struggle against the Federal Government. 
 
 “It is natural that in complying with certain laws that had to be enacted 
 by the government as a consequence of this attitude, and through the interven¬ 
 tion of authorities of different rank, that certain disagi’eeable incidents should 
 be registered. 
 
 “The conflict will disappear automatically when the directors of the 
 Mexican churches subordinate their now wounded vanity, declaring themselves 
 disposed to obey said laws and to the authorities encharged with the vigilance 
 for the compliance of this legislation, advising this line of conduct to all 
 believers.” 
 
 President Calles made the following statement to John Page, a representa¬ 
 tive of the Hearst newspapers in North America, as reported in Excelsior 
 July 26: 
 
 “In regard to the questionnaire presented by Mr. John Page, correspond¬ 
 ent of the Hearst newspapers, and in which he asked me, first, if the manifesto 
 of the so-called National Defense League of Religious Liberty and its project 
 to bring about the paralyzation of the social and economic life of the country 
 is mutinous; secondly, if the project in question can affect in any way the 
 life in Mexico, socially and economically; and, thirdly, if the government over 
 which I preside can mollify the reforms and additions to the penal code, about 
 
 — 80 — 
 
which the members of the League have complained, I desire to state; 
 
 “The judicial authorities will determine whether the sheets recently dis¬ 
 tributed by the National League for Religious Liberty are of a seditious nature 
 Or not, though it can already be said that it is attempted to disturb public order, 
 because the economic crisis which is sought by the League will, if achieved, 
 bring about serious disturbances of public peace. However, the purpose of the 
 Catholic agitators will be a failure, and a substantial evidence of the lack of 
 strength of those people. 
 
 The economic life of Mexico is not dependent on the activities of groups 
 who are disgusted with the Revolutionary government of the country. Neither 
 the industry and the commerce have ever been dependent on the group of 
 political agitators who have started this ridiculous movement. Besides, the live 
 forces of Mexico have always been developed without being led by those who 
 make use of religion for exhibition purposes or seeking profits. These live 
 forces, in the hands of Catholics, Protestants, or members of any other religious 
 denomination, are not affected by the decisions taken by badly intentioned 
 groups.” 
 
 President Calles then declared that in order to form an opinion of the 
 present religious situation, it is necessarj'^ to remember certain incidents brought 
 about by high church dignitaries, adding that Archbishop Mora y del Rio of 
 Mexico City, on three different occasions, has publicly announced his intention 
 to oppose and fight the Constitution of 1917. 
 
 “This cannot be overlooked by the government because it would imply 
 weakness on its part, as it meant a dangerous opportunity to disturb public 
 order,” says Calles. “Now W'^hat is the government of any country to do, 
 when a social group, religious or otherwise, publicly rejects the fundamental 
 laws of the country, and announces its purpose to fight them, inciting the 
 peoples to repudiate the Constitution? What could my government do but 
 devote its attention to those Constitutional clauses connected with the clergy’s 
 protest, and demand a strict obedience of the law? Thus the religious con¬ 
 flict was created. We have had no need to pass new laws, but merely to 
 enforce those already effective since the times of Reform, some fifty years 
 ago, and since 1917 when the present Constitution was enacted. Regulations 
 have been issued establishing penalties in accordance with the law. 
 
 “The amendments of the Penal Code, which brought about this curious 
 campaign ‘to paralyze the economic and social life of the country’, were 
 logically necessary, because, otherwise, the enforcement of the Constitutional 
 clauses would be impossible. Moreover, the clergy were violating them, a 
 fact which they themselves publicly admitted. These penalties were established 
 in accordance with the authority invested in us by Congress. On the other 
 hand, such penalties are neither excessive nor different nor superior from 
 those of the Constitutions in all the civilized world. 
 
 “Since the beginning we clearly stated that the Government’s conduct, 
 whatever our sentiment or philosophic or religious ideas might be, would not 
 be based on persecution impulses, or rancour, or ill will against the Arch¬ 
 bishops and Bishops who had signed the repudiation of the Constitution and 
 the appeal to rebellion, because such were in reality the documents printed 
 by the newspaper El Universal. 
 
 “The best demonstration that such is the truth is the fact that we pro¬ 
 ceeded to enforce the Constitution, knowing well that one of the first results 
 to be derived from our action “would be favorable to the Mexican clergy, 
 through the automatic elimination of the foreign priests, who had not signed 
 any protest and were, in some cases, an obstacle for the development of the 
 policies adopted by the bad Mexican clergy. However-, they were forced to 
 
 —81 
 
abandon the country because it was demanded by the Constitution. 
 
 “However, frankly speaking, I believe that rather than the clergy them¬ 
 selves, the ones obstructing the administrative task of the Government are 
 people who agitate themselves close to the clergy and disguise themselves, as 
 I have already stated, with a religious cloak to cover their old reactionary 
 tendencies of hatred of the government and the men of the revolution. 
 
 “If we analyze the personalities of these people who organize the National 
 League for the Defense of Religious Liberty, or of the Feminist Associations 
 of pseudo-Catholic women who once in a while organize street manifestations 
 with their female servants (most of them being careful to remain at home, and, 
 of course, leaving their husbands behind), or of the more or less well defined 
 groups that have been hampering the work of the authorities for several months 
 throughout the country, we may easily reach the following conclusions: 
 
 “Those men are attorneys who must make a strong showing of their 
 religious zeal in order to be pointed out by public opinion as being ‘strong 
 pillars of the Church’, and as courageous men ready to fight on behalf of their 
 religion, because this will be translated into powers of attorney to handle funds 
 or property belonging to religious institutions, or in appointments as managers 
 or attorneys of the clergy. Also they are enabled to exploit those candid people 
 who believe that the religious sentiments, which are ostentatiously displayed, are 
 sufficient guarantee of honesty and efficiency. 
 
 “Another very interesting group of actors in this religious conflict is 
 formed by professional political agitators, who, disguised as Catholics, organized 
 in the past a National Catholic Party which posed as a great friend of Presi¬ 
 dent Madero. But, on the day after Madero’s murder that Party entered into 
 an alliance with Victoriano Huerta. 
 
 “Next came the National Agricultural Syndicates, organized by so-called 
 ranch owners who succeeded in corrupting several revolutionary leaders in 1923. 
 This they did merely with promises because they were, and still are, incapable 
 of raising the necessary funds to pay those they corrupt. These Syndicates 
 before, during, and after my presidential campaign, have been dreaming of 
 misleading the will of the Mexican people, and today they are cooperating with 
 the League for the Defense of Religious Liberty, receiving a weak support from 
 the Archbishop of Mexico. And they keep on repeating in every two lines of 
 their appeal for the paralyzing of social and economic activities, that their pur¬ 
 pose is peaceful and orderly, so that if any disorders are brought about by an 
 economic crisis, they may not be held responsible. 
 
 “Also the Archbishop and Bishops who are now giving their approval to the 
 proposed campaign, would not like to be held responsible for any possible riots, 
 in which case they will claim that they counselled ‘an orderly and peaceful 
 action’. But they do not dare (as they perhaps desire in view of the danger 
 in which they may find themselves should the campaign succeed) to condemn 
 the movement, fearing that the ignorant Catholics might think that their re¬ 
 pudiation was an act of cowardice before the ‘chivalrous and generous atti¬ 
 tude’ of the political agitators who are defending the bad Catholicism. 
 
 “I know that it is very hard for the people of the United States to under¬ 
 stand that there are wicked men who try to cover their political ambitions 
 under a religious cloak. I envy the United States in that respect, and I do 
 know quite well that there is not a single provision in the American Con¬ 
 stitution connected with the religious question, because the churches in that 
 country have established a frontier between religious attitude and conduct 
 and political activities and interests, while in our country, since the days of 
 independence to our present times, the intervention of the Catholic Church 
 in teriiporal and political affairs, has been a constant historical problem, with- 
 
 —82 
 
out understanding that such an intervention is the cause of the gradual weak¬ 
 ening of the spiritual influence which the Mexican Catholic Church has been 
 experiencing for decades, to such an extent, that today, with the exceptions I 
 have mentioned, and of a small percentage of sincere Catholics unable to see 
 through the intrigues of the agitators, all the other Mexican Catholics, who are 
 good Mexicans, have divided their religious duties from the obedience demanded 
 of them by their bad pastors who are after political or temporal gains. 
 
 “Naturally, my Government does not even contemplate to make less drastic 
 the amendments to the Penal Code, used by the political Catholic agitators and 
 the bad prelates in Mexico as a pretext for opposing the social constructive 
 revolutionary work we are carrying out. Each new opposition or demonstration 
 of animosity or desire to hinder my government’s work will serve to establish 
 new penalties for those who refuse to obey the laws of the country. Cam¬ 
 paigns, like that which is being contemplated, only serve to show the lack of 
 strength of those who planned this criminal movement which, if successful, 
 can hardly injure my government. On the other hand, it would cause irrep¬ 
 arable damages to the large majority of the Mexican family. It would also 
 be a victory for the revolution because, if the plan was successful, the above 
 mentioned majorities would despite and hate those ‘paralyzers of life in 
 Mexico.’ It could reasonably be said of them that they were so wicked and 
 egotistical that they led the majorities to need and poverty and even to death, 
 in order to satisfy, under a mask of Catholicism, old hatreds and bastard 
 political ambitions.” 
 
 Pro-Calles Parade Legends 
 
 T he parade held August 1, arranged by the C. R. O. M. as a demonstration 
 of loyalty to the Calles program in general as well as in the religious con¬ 
 troversy, had about 50,000 marchers. Many banners were carried, with legends 
 in Spanish. Some of them, as translated by an American missionary, were: 
 
 The inquisition is the Christian work of the Roman church. 
 
 Not a woman to the confession and not a cent to the church. 
 
 General Calles, here we are! 
 
 The Catholic Priest is a parasite on society. 
 
 The Roman church displays its pomp, but Christianity despises riches. 
 Anathema on those who disturb the peace. 
 
 Viva Calles, follower of Juarez. 
 
 Our Great Constitution has found in President Calles a faithful interpreter. 
 Catholics, what liberty has the church secured for you? Look for them. 
 The work of President Calles exalts the government. 
 
 We are with the President because he is on the side of reason. 
 
 To make the nation great is the work of President Calles. 
 
 Sane people applaud the uprightness of General Calles. 
 
 The work of President Calles has made him great. 
 
 Being on the side of President Calles is to be on the side of justice. 
 
 The Pro-Constitution Union of Public Employees. 
 
 The confession subverts the morals of the people. 
 
 The clergy rich—the people poor. 
 
 The Mexican women emancipated from the tutelage of the clergy. 
 
 There is no religious problem, it is simply a question of clerical pride. 
 Anathema on you, disturbers of the peace. 
 
 The law supreme and over everybody. 
 
 — 83 — 
 
Let the pirates of the conscience tremble. 
 
 By their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:10. 
 
 Our laws do not approve any religion, but regulate all of them. 
 
 Mexican citizens not servants of Rome. 
 
 Let those who make merchandise of the temple get out. 
 
 The clergy, the enemy of liberty of thought. 
 
 Comrades, the common school destroys fanaticism. 
 
 To gain temporal power the church poured out rivers of blood. 
 
 Catholic education has produced a superabundance of ignorance. 
 
 For temple, the universe; for priest, the conscience. 
 
 The Pope does not govern Mexico. 
 
 Compliance with the law is the salvation of the people. 
 
 Down with priestly control. 
 
 The rebellion of the clergy has solidified the workers behind President 
 Calles. 
 
 With the Mexican money which goes to Rome every year we could alleviate 
 much misery and destroy much ignorance. 
 
 Liberals with conviction. 
 
 The curate uses the confession to deceive the husband. 
 
 The soul of Juarez lives in the breast of Calles. 
 
 Let your religion be honor, dignity, study, and work. 
 
 The supremacy of Rome cannot be over the sovereignty of Mexico. 
 
 Large estates created by blood. 
 
 Either Mexicans or subjects of the Pope. 
 
 It has been declared a sin to take ice cream, chewing gum and movies. 
 Is it not treason to try to paralyze the life of the Republic? 
 
 Central American Conditions 
 
 S OLOMON DE LA SELVA, a native of Nicaragua, a Roman Catholic, educated 
 in the United States, now employed by the Calles government, spoke to the 
 group in the Princess hotel Friday afternoon, August 6, following the address 
 of Dr. Rettinger. He said: 
 
 I want to take you to Central America, which has the same labor problems 
 that Mexico had before the revolution and the organization of the federation 
 of labor here. Central America is a continuation of Mexico; or, as we Central 
 Americans put it, Mexico is a continuation of Central America. I mean we 
 are one and the same people. We have the same Indian races. We had the 
 same conquerors; we had the same people to make trouble for us; only Mexico 
 being larger, stronger and more developed in its natural resources than we, 
 has been able to develop its labor movement faster. 
 
 The church came to build on the ruins of what the sword had done. The 
 Spanish conqueror came to destroy our Indian civilization; then came the church 
 to. build on the ruins of that civilization a new one. The essence of that 
 civilization was and is that all servants, meaning laborers, should obey their 
 masters, meaning the employers, as their gods. That was the principal thing 
 the church did. This civilization the church taught for so many hundreds of 
 years was killing my people. After awhile both the church and the conqueror 
 found that it did not pay to kill them, that it was better to have them as 
 servants. It is true the church has taught some religion of its kind. It is also 
 true it did not forget to make good servants through its teachings. That is 
 chiefly what we have had to fight. 
 
 — 84 — 
 
You come to Mexico and find it in a troubled state; imagine what it was 
 before. You can find out by going down to Central America. Come down to 
 Nicaragua and you will find destruction and nothing developed. Everyone 
 wants to grab, just as the Spanish have been doing for centuries, even the 
 United States; and the unfortunate part is that the United States doesn’t realize 
 it. The power of the United States is committing murder and the United States 
 thinks it has its conscience clear. There is a government and a church. The 
 government has all the departments a civilized country needs, apparently, but 
 it has no power. The church is just a political school. One comes as a tourist 
 for a few days and sees lovely places. You are taken to a parochial school 
 and you see the children there learning their A-B-C. But the backbone of all 
 this education is that there is a master and they are all taught how to serve 
 those masters as God. The poor are treated just like stock and not very fine 
 stock either. In Latin America you may find very beautiful towns, but if you 
 want to find out how the people live go out of the town. Then you see only 
 huts. In the schools of the Catholic church they are not always taught even to 
 read, but they are taught the catechism, they are taught how they should treat 
 the church, how they should treat the priest, how they should finally treat their 
 masters. Real trade unions were not formed in Central America until 1923. In 
 1923 the C. R. O. M. began their hard work to start these unions and to gather 
 information. It was then that we began to study the problems of the laborers of 
 the country. The conditions we were trying to solve through the labor movement 
 were these. The Indian had been robbed of all his land. He was living on the 
 outskirts of the town somewhat as a human louse, only he was a louse that could 
 be milked once in awhile in filth and poverty, such filth as you have never 
 seen. The women have many children, one a year. They do not have real 
 houses or even huts; they only have something to cover the roof, so they 
 are a little bit protected from the storms. Sometimes one of them gets a 
 nice fat cow or a nice fat pig so they will have some milk, but about that 
 time comes a government official and he takes that nice fat cow for someone 
 higher up in the government. 
 
 There is plenty of work at the plantations when gathering in the coffee, 
 but that season lasts only two months. But that is on the Atlantic Coast of 
 Nicaragua a great source of wealth in bananas. The banana takes care of 
 producing itself. From one banana plant there will be at least twelve little 
 banana plants. All that is necessary is to see that they start growing. These 
 plants grow in very poor soil, swampy soil. The people who live in this 
 part of the country do not live long. They work hard gathering in these 
 crops; and they do not live very long. I have seen several old men; but 
 that was really a miracle. Down there they get an average of 20 centavos a 
 day, they do not get enough to buy food. There is one very large fruit 
 company that handles the bananas. It is Cuyomel Fruit Company. It is 
 estimated they make a net profit of $80,000,000 a year. And for all the 
 bananas they take out of Central America and principally from Nicaragua, 
 they leave only about $100,000. We went on the strike. 
 
 We soon decided we could not have labor unions unless we were to 
 have political power. Of what use were they if we did not gain anything, 
 and of what use if the national army will fire on us. Then we organized 
 the Nicaraguan labor party, the arm of the Nicaraguan trade union move¬ 
 ment. We have not succeeded yet because we have not been able to control 
 any political movement nor the affairs of the government. Can you imagine 
 trade unions during the Diaz regime? They would have had the Federal 
 Army firing on them, just as they did under Victoriano Huerta. 
 
 The conditions in Central America and Mexico are the same. We have 
 
 — 85 — 
 
tried to do what the Mexicans have done with much success. Our difficulty 
 in Central America has been with governments which have been helped by 
 the American Marines. If we could have sufficient influence to keep the 
 American marines in check, then we should succeed as Mexico has succeeded. 
 
 Rural Social Work 
 
 M ISS ELENA TORRES, experienced as a social worker in rural Mexico, 
 a member of the staff of the Y. W. C. A. in Mexico City, spoke Thursday 
 morning, August 5. Miss Caroline Smith, introducing her, said, “When I 
 came to Mexico nearly five years ago, I wanted to know what women were 
 doing in organized groups. One of the first places I was directed to and 
 visited was a small group with headquarters in a small room near the Cathedral. 
 There I found Miss Elena Torres. She did o very fine piece of work in 
 organizing the Association Cooperative Femenista, a small group of very 
 intelligent women. Following istudy in the United States, she returned at 
 the invitation of Mr. Saenz, the Assistant Secretary of Education, to organize 
 six mission groups to improve conditions in the rural districts. Miss Torres 
 and Mrs. Concha Romero James are the outstanding organizers of women’s 
 groups for improving the conditions here in Mexico. I should like to say for 
 the Y. W. C. A. that we have captured Miss Torres from the government. We 
 did not deliberately do it; she had decided to sever her association with the 
 government and to join our forces. She is going to the United States to 
 become acquainted with our plans and then she is coming back to Mexico to 
 start future Associations in Mexico, which will be in the rural districts of 
 Mexico. We shall probably have no more city associations; this will probably 
 be the only city association or center. Hereafter our efforts will be con¬ 
 centrated on the work in the rural districts and Miss Torres will have charge 
 of it; in this Association we will develop a training center for the training 
 of secretaries to go out into these rural districts. She is to be our extension 
 secretary. 
 
 Miss Torres said: 
 
 I will explain some of my experience in rural Avork. In 1912 I was a 
 rural teacher, and I learned how bad the situation of people in the country is; 
 but my opportunity did not come until 1922. During the last of that year 
 I organized 9,000 breakfasts for children; then I received some help from 
 government people. Dr. Pruneda, Rector of the University, then in the health 
 department, gave me a nurse who was also a doctor in obstetrics and two 
 other workers. We went to Cuatla, Morelia. In the beginning of my work, (I 
 put eight months into this work), I was in a small village where they had 
 never had schools. I organized a mass meeting in the village which had about 
 125 families. Each family gave $4.50 (pesos) towards the buying of material, 
 for the building of the school. I went to the Junta and I told them they 
 had to help me so that we could build this school fast. Well, we had a one- 
 room school in four months. 
 
 I told these people they should build homes in which to live. I proposed 
 a plan for the houses: one big room, one small room, a kitchenette, and a 
 small corridor. The plans required only materials they had in the place. 
 If we use things they do not have, we shall not improve their life. Four 
 months after the first sample new home was built, seventeen homes had been 
 completed. I did not take part in all this, only in the first one. It was an 
 .example only that they needed. 
 
These people do not have social life in the way we have. They have no 
 organization. When they have rivers, then the boys swim; but in everj'thing 
 they d oit is without organization. They do not have good leaders. After 
 independence, they lost all of the leaders. They need leaders to help the life 
 of independence. Then too they have religious needs. The principal thing 
 for the Mexican people is for them to cast off the Catholic church. Because 
 for years and years they have had the priests and the ^church, they have 
 wanted only the Catholic church; but the chm'ch has lost the opportunity to 
 improve the situation. My grandfather was Catholic, but I was out of the 
 church at sixteen years of age because I did not like confession. I never did 
 like to speak about religion. Of course, religion ought to be supported. 
 I am interested in helping Christianity in every church. 
 
 QUESTION: What is done about illness in the country? Do they take 
 them to doctors and places where they can be treated? 
 
 ANSWER: They have quack doctors. They treat sometimes with herbs. 
 They need doctors and nurses very much. 
 
 QUESTION: In Cuba, there are two kinds of physicians. There are 
 the licensed physicians, and the medical students or those who have not yet 
 received their degrees. 
 
 ANSWER: Lots of them here do not know much. There are many 
 doctors here in the cities, but few in the country. 
 
 QUESTION: Is there a tendency to return to the teachings of Jesus? 
 
 ANSWER: They cannot understand between the teachings of Jesus and 
 the teachings of the church. 
 
 Miss Concepcion Perez, a Methodist worker in rural districts of Mexico, 
 also spoke, as follows: 
 
 I am working in the Methodist church. I was a teacher in the country, 
 so I can tell you what the conditions are. Our country people, the Indians, 
 live in very bad conditions in some ways. Not all the people in the country 
 live the same. The people who live on the coast have adobe houses, very small 
 houses, but they have beds, chairs and tables. They haven’t very comfortable 
 houses, but they live better than the people who live here in the altitude, on 
 the mesa. On the mesa the people live in very small adobe houses, with no 
 chairs, beds, or tables. They sleep on the floor on mats. Those mats are 
 also used as tables for meals. Concerning meals, they have in the morning- 
 only a cup of tea made of orange leaves boiled in water, and sometimes they 
 have nothing. When they go to work in the fieMs they have about nine or 
 ten o’clock a meal of tortillas, cakes made of ground corn, frijoles (beans) 
 and chili sauce. At five or six o’clock in the evening they have the principal 
 meal with chili. Very seldom do they have any meat, but chili and frijoles 
 many times, that is, here in the mesa, the cold country. In the hot country 
 they have better meals. They have meat and rice and other things to eat. 
 
 When the Protes'tant churches went to work here, the principal point was 
 to change the conditions of living of these poor people, all their houses and 
 meals and everything. We realized that until we did that we could do nothing. 
 The principal point is to reach these people in the country places and change 
 their lives. If they can be changed, then the country can be changed. 
 
 What about the religious conditions? They believe in the saints. They 
 are doing nothing else all the time but thinking about the priests and the 
 saints. The priests have entire control over them. You can see them go to 
 work every day with their suits of clothing in rags, but keeping pennies to 
 buy candles to light in the churches. They sell things and never use this 
 money to make their homes better but use it for the church. They go a long 
 
 — 87 — 
 
way, twenty leagues, walking or on donkeys and giye the money to the church. 
 That is the thing the Catholic Church is doing. 
 
 If you go to the country places, there is no social life. We have tried 
 in our little churches, wherever we could, to make fiestas and picnics and to 
 have little social entertainments, to teach them how to be happy and jolly. 
 They do not know how to live. The Indians almost do not know how to laugh. 
 In the hot country around Veracruz they are happier. They know how to 
 play and dance and sing. 
 
 The condition of the women is very bad. The women work very hard. 
 They grind corn in the morning. They do the house work all the time. 
 They go to the mills to work and many times they go to the fields to help the 
 husband. They have no social life. Many of them do not know how to take 
 care of the babies, how to feed them, how to take care of them when they 
 are sick. One of the principal tasks then is to teach them to be happy, 
 how to raise their babies, and how to have real homes. We are training girls in 
 cooking, in taking care of babies, and in taking care of themselves. 
 
 The government is doing something. The Protestant churches are not the 
 only ones doing something. General Calles has thought about the Indians. 
 The government is making a campaign for these Indians. There are some 
 schools for them, where they are teaching to speak Spanish, how to farm and 
 how to take care of themselves. Each one has to learn a special kind of work, 
 one a carpenter, one a farmer, etc. In three months they can speak Spanish. 
 Games of many kinds are taught as well as work. They have responded very 
 well. The government cannot teach these boys to be good. The churches 
 must teach them to think right and to do right. Many erf these boys have no 
 religion, not even the Catholic. The government is doing fine social work, 
 giving entertainments, teaching how to play, how to take care of babies and 
 all that. 
 
 QUESTION: How do the Indians take to athletics? 
 
 ANSWER: They respond very well. The great trouble is that they have 
 no leaders. 
 
 QUESTION: What do these people do about farming, about raising 
 
 things for themselves and for market? 
 
 ANSWER: The trouble is we have not large enough farms. They all 
 need larger farms. With the little land they have, they raise corn and beans, 
 but they very seldom have any surplus above their own needs. 
 
 QUESTION: What do the priests do with the money they collect? Do 
 they use it for the Indians? 
 
 ANSWER: No, they never do; they send it to Rome. 
 
 QUESTION: We have been told that even if the people do have land, 
 they do not have the money to plant the land. 
 
 ANSWER: We have an office in Mexico City where they can get the 
 implements. 
 
 QUESTION: Are any of the Indians well-to-do? 
 
 ANSWER: Some of them; but only a few, 
 
 QUESTION: How large are the farms they are giving to the Indians? 
 
 ANSWER: Five acres for a family of five. 
 
 QUESTION: These traveling missionaries, what about they? 
 
 ANSWER: There were so many calls to the government for help that 
 they have been sending out these missionaries. They have now sent out 
 sixty traveling missionaries. The trouble with the country people is that 
 they have no one to lead them, no one to show them how to go to the 
 governmental offices and get the things they need. They need someone to 
 
 — 88 — 
 
show them. One hope of the country is the government’^'schools. There are 
 many who cannot read and write. • - ' 
 
 QUESTION: Do you travel around in"the country from place to place, 
 or are there little churches in most of the^e villages?' 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, in most. 
 
 QUESTION: In view of your statement that there is no social life, do not 
 the boys and girls have courtship? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, they marry with the friends of the family; they meet in 
 the homes but they have no social life. 
 
 QUESTION: Don’t they go to the market places and there meet each 
 other? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, but that is not social life; there they have to work to 
 sell. Of course, they have the custom of a marriage feast. In Xochimilco the 
 marriage feast lasts fifteen days and they make'a big affairj-but not every day 
 do they get married. When a baby is bom and baptized, they have another 
 feast. When anybody dies, they have another feast, that is, they get together 
 and drink. But that is not social life. 
 
 QUESTION: This social life at marriages and funerals, is it elevating or 
 degrading? 
 
 ANSWER: It does not help them. 
 
 QUESTION: Do they raise chickens and'turkeys? Do they eat them? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, many of them. No, they do not eat them. They take 
 them to market to sell, except when there is a special feast, such as at 
 marriage. They take them to market to” get the money for the candles which 
 they take to the church and light. ‘ - 
 
 QUESTION: Don’t they have com's and drink milk? 
 
 ANSWER: Yes, sometimes, but-if they have a cow they sell the milk and 
 save the money, as I have told you. 
 
 QUESTION: Don’t they give milk to’the children? 
 
 ANSWER: No, not very much.^ ’ ' 
 
 QUESTION: Where do they find someoTie' to buy the milk, if they are 
 all so poor? •* ' ’ 
 
 ANSWER: Even in the small towns there are always some people who 
 have little stores or do some business and they have money, so they buy the milk. 
 
 Our Mexican Pilgrimage 
 
 fc.lBy Robert■^S. Holmes • r a 
 
 In an old and musty Pullman 
 Of a quite decadent brand, 
 Taylor led our host of pilgrims 
 To explore an alien land. 
 Pilgrims famed for erudition 
 Representing age and youth 
 Sweltered on the way together, 
 Zealots in the search for truth. 
 
 —S9— 
 
Armed we were with vised papers 
 Stamped with high official sign; 
 Knowing that our fame precedes us 
 Gaily we approach the line. 
 
 Show our scars of vaccination 
 
 Leave the rest to Guide Book Joe, 
 But the Mexicans undaunted 
 
 Wave their hands in answer, No. 
 
 Back we go across the border 
 For a cause not understood. 
 
 Rumor says we are deported 
 
 And some members are too good. 
 
 And they feign would ban the preachers. 
 For they made our curates swear. 
 They’d not practice their religion 
 If they’d let them enter there. 
 
 To the land of Toltec culture. 
 
 To the land of Mexico. 
 
 Rolled our dusty group of students 
 Who would hear and see and know. 
 
 We had meetings in the morning 
 And some interviews at night. 
 
 And we learned from native leaders 
 What was wrong and who are right. 
 
 Now our group was open minded 
 Not a person would take sides 
 Twixt the masses and the classes, 
 
 ’Till we knew where truth abides. 
 
 So we’ve gathered information 
 With a journalistic skill. 
 
 And both capital and labor 
 Are assured of our good will. 
 
 So it’s home again tomorrow 
 For authorities are we 
 And will write for home town papers. 
 Prophesying things to be 
 We have spent almost a fortnight. 
 
 In the state of Mexico, 
 
 And our heads are filled with knowledge 
 Much of which may not be so. 
 
 —90 
 
CONTENTS 
 
 Preface _ 3 
 
 The Views of President Calles_ 5 
 
 The Historic Background of Mexico_ 9 
 
 Mexican Protestant Views_—13 
 
 Views of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy_29 
 
 The Independent Catholic Church_32 
 
 Business Conditions _35 
 
 The Program of Education_39 
 
 The Labor Movement___45 
 
 The Oil Laws_48 
 
 The Religious Problem_52 
 
 Agriculture_57 
 
 C. R. O. M_64 
 
 The Mexican Labor Movement_68 
 
 Protestant Missionaries_71 
 
 An Indian; School_74 
 
 Important Documents _75 
 
 Pro-Calles Parade Legends_83 
 
 Central American Conditions_ ^ _84 
 
 Rural Social Work_86 
 
 Our Mexican Pilgrimage_89 
 
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