MASTER NEGA TIVE NO. 92-80591 MICROFILMED 1992 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LIBRARIES/NEW YORK as part of the "Foundations of Western Civilization Preservation Project" Funded by the NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE HUMANITIES Reproductions may not be made without permission from Columbia University Library COPYRIGHT STATEMENT The copyright law of the United States - Title 17, United States Code ~ concerns the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material,.. Columbia University Library reserves the right to refuse to accept a copy order if, in its judgement, ftilfillment of the order would involve violation of the copyright law. A UTHOR : [GT. BRITAIN] TITLE: PAPERS AND DOCUMENTS PLACE: [LONDON] DA TE : 1837 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LIBRARIES PRESERVATION DEPARTMENT Master Negative # BIBLIOGRAPHIC MICROFORM TARGET Original Material as Filmed - Existing Bibliographic Record [942* AC781 K. Cocper,!^ Charles Piirt on, 1793-I87i3. [6t. Brit. Record commission] Papers and documents relating to the evidence of cer- '*| tain \7i tnesses examined before the Select committee of the House of commons appointed **to inquire into the management and affairs of the Eecord commission, and the present state of the records of the United Kingdom ;'* comp/'sing the remarks and questions and answers re- ferreu to in the Observations upon the report of the said committee, transmitted to the lords commissioners of His Majesty's treasury, by His Majesty's commissioners on the public records: with an appendix of illustrative documtiuts. [London, Printed by C. Roworth and sonS] 1837. xiv, 457, ill p. pi. 2U"». /^^ (Continued on next card) Restrictions on Use: Cooper/ Charlies Purton^M7'93-1873# [Gt. Brit. Record commission] ... (Card 2) Papers and documen Evidence prepared by C. P. Cooper, as secretary of the Record commia-' >> sion, in reply to adverse testimony before the investigating committee^ but.ij not heard by the committee. "Printed on the sole responsibility of the '^.; secretary." ' " ♦ "Comparative lists of works produced by the former commission, in "a period corresponding with the duration of the present commission, to % March, 1836": p. 310-319. 1. Archives — Gt. Brit. i. Cooper, Charles Purton, 1793-1873. Library of Congress O CD1043.A3 1837 7-241t ": H karti TECHNICAL MICROFORM DATA REDUCTION RATIO: \ \ >^ FILM SlZE.__J^_^_jr\_t)r^ IMAGE PLACEMENT: lA (JIA) IB IIB _ ^ry DATE FILMED:__i2£i_ii^9i?.3c.__ INITIALS__M^!Wt^_ HLMEDBY: RESEARCH PUBLICATIONS. INC WOODBRIDGE. CT r Association for Information and Image Management 1100 Wayne Avenue. Suite 1100 Silver Spring, Maryland 20910 301/587-8202 Centimeter 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n 12 13 imliiiiliiiiliiiiLiliiiiliiiilMM^ 14 15 mm T TTT Inches 1 1.0 I.I 1.25 15.0 "'" ^ «J3.2 IM 14.0 ^ U 1.4 2.5 Urn 1^ 2.0 1.8 1.6 I I I MONUFRCTURED TO RUM STRNDRRDS BY RPPLIED IMRGE. INC. /^N ■ 1 "<) ^.•.: N-:'^ -J 7v- >"-3^'" .y 1 ti LA ^ii^' \' ' — "V- *^ 'i '♦. iT J .-•^ii. y K 'M:- ■'• ^ _j^ .. i-j Jk:'%J>..:i»d'ai^ r'^ii»-iyfi3*K- *^ "i*^ — -V.ji<''l! r>. ■ ■ » ^^^ M^m in th« ®itB jjf Slew |I«?»^H -s \i. -. I K ^ y I '•i*> .-yf^ ) -A v^^^l ''■^ gibrarig. \ ^ 'OS v^ --^^Sl^ .T.K»' "•y^/^ -^-' /T^".' ^ -t a ^i^' I ''^Mi V/' I I: i, >i vy 1"V '-^5 ^:_. •>1^- y. ■■' I ■v^ -c\ i 1 > .ur /, ^fe^:- ^ -.w^i.^;j:siLM. / ""' J -I ■'/^. IP" \ ^'%»Tpers ajni^ documents RELATING TO THE EVIDENCE OF C E R T A I N#*V^ N E S S E S EXAMINED BEFORE CH* l&elert tSonmittee of tft« |l|ou»^ of mmmont ANOINTED THE COMPRISING THE R|^ARKS AN^ QUESTION^. AND ANSWERS / REFERRED TO IN llIE OBSERVATIONS UPON THE REPdfeT OF THE'-SAID COMMITTEE, TRANSMITTED eje EorDTie; CximmwiiotietsJ of %xi IKajejjtj'i^ CwaiSur|), BY HIS MAJESTY'S COMMISSIONERS ON THE PUBLIC RECORDS: WITH AN APPENDIX OF ILLUSTRATIVE DOCUMENTS. J MDCCCXXXVll. y <^-Ui^.'JOLi_ . • A^ \.. C\. i?^ a J NyoKtf. / i • i ,% PREFACE. •V ' y lljk ^nt \ ^^ »f London: C. ROWORTH AND bQNS, DELL YARD, TKMPLf BAR. The peculiar form, in which the facts contained in the following pages are presented to the public, originates in certain circum- stances connected with the proceedings of the Select Committee of the House of Commons appointed, in the Session of 1836, to inquire into the management and affairs of the Record Com- mission, and the present state of the records of the United Kingdom. An order was made, by that Committee, that the Minutes of the Evidence of all the Witnesses who appeared before it should be forwarded, when printed, to the Secretary to the Record Com- mission ; and it was stated to the Secretary by the Chairman of the Committee, that, in his capacity of Secretary, he would be permitted to remark and reply upon the Evidence of the adverse Witnesses, whenever it might appear to the Board or himself to be proper to do so. This permission was so well and so generally understood, that an application was made to the Committee, on behalf of several Witnesses who had spoken unfavorably of the Board, to be per- mitted to be present when the Secretary should reply to their testimony. That application was granted by the Committee. The first Witnesses who gave evidence adverse to the Record Commission were Messrs. Hewlett, Illingworth and Holbrooke. As soon as the Secretary received the Minutes of their Evidence" he prepared certain observations in reply ; which he intendp ipead, or use, before the Committee, whenever the prom» portunity should be afforded him. IV PREFACE. After Mr. Holbrooke had been examined, Mr. Protheroe, one of the Commissioners, and Mr. Vmcent, the King's Remem- brancer, gave Evidence, which appeared to require explanation both on behalf of the Board and of the Secretary. The Secre- tary prepared a reply to the Evidence of these gentlemen, imme- diately when it came to his hands ; it was not prepared as a con- tinuous statement, but in the form of question and answer ; the question, at the suggestion of one of the Commissioners, who has had much experience in such matters, embodying the assertions of the Witness in his own words, and the answer containing such reply as it was in the power of the Secretary to give. This form was principally adopted with a view to " the ques- tions and answers" being placed in the hands of some members of the Committee, who might examine the Secretary respecting the several matters to which they referred, and in that manner elicit the defence of the Commissioners. That portion of the Evidence of the last-mentioned Witnesses, to which it was consi- dered desirable to reply, consisted, principally, of statements re- specting facts which were within the knowledge of the Secretary. The proper mode of reply was, therefore, by counter Evidence to be given by him. The papers in question were drawn up as in- struction to those members of the Committee who were to ex- amine the Secretary, so as to afford him an opportunity of giving such counter Evidence. All the evidence before mentioned was given before the ad- journment of the Committee during the Easter holidays. When the Committee resumed its sittings, after the holidays, several other Witnesses were examined adversely to the Commission, and Mr. Protheroe put forth some additional charges. A very small portion of the Minutes of this subsequent Evidence was received by the Secretary before the 8th of July ; and none of it came to his hands in sufficient time to enable him to give attention to it before that day. The questions and answers, relating to the Evidence given by Mr. Protheroe before Easter, having been placed in the hands of PREFACE. Iff the Right Honorable Charles Watkin Williams Wynn and Sir Robert Harry Inghs, two members of the Committee, those gentlemen examined the Secretary on the 5th, the 6th, and the 8th days of July, respecting some of the accusations preferred against the Board, but were prevented by a deter- mination of the Committee from asking more than a few of the questions which had been prepared. On the 8th of July, it was generally understood that the Com- mittee would take no Evidence after that day; and the Secretary addressed the Committee, in consequence, in the following words, which appear in the printed Minutes of Evidence (8156). " The Committee having determined, as I understand, that as regards the taking of evidence, its labours should be closed to-day, I have three remarks to make ; the first is, that I had prepared, in a somewhat elaborate manner, answers to all those points brought forward in the examination of Mr. Protheroe, that seem to re- quire refutation or explanation either on the part of the Commis- sion or the Secretary. These answers, together with the ques- tions intended to elicit them, which are framed in conformity with the suggestion of my Lord Brougham,* fill thirty brief sheets of paper. I had also prepared similar answers in regard to certain matters arising in the Evidence of Mr. Vincent : but with respect to the matters appearing in the Evidence of Mr. Hewlett, Mr. lUingworth and Mr. Holbiooke, I had simply drawn up some observations. As these answers and observations cannot, I presume, now be used ; all that I can do is to mention their existence, and to claim the right of availing myself of them in time and place. The next remark is, that, with regard to the remainder of the Evidence, (although I have not read any of the fasciculi of it subsequent to No. \Sy) yet I have been informed that the contents concern myself rather than the • This passage is somewhat equivocal. All that was meant to be conveyed was, that Lord Brougham (in a communication with one of the Commissioners) had sug- gested, that in the examination before the Committee, the questions to be put should embody the words of the evidence and not merely refer to the numbers by which it is distinguished. m PREFACE. Board ; and for that reason, in the urgency of the moment, I have postponed to look into them, conceiving it to be my duty not to neglect the grave matters which may appear to touch the Commissioners, from an over-eagerness to get rid of imputations that concern myself alone. I shall, therefore, take another oc- casion to repel such statements as those I am alluding to ; — statements, for instance, that I have intreated one person to dedicate a book to me, and that I have pirated the notes of another person." The third remark is irrelevant to the present purpose. A considerable delay intervened between the close of the sitting of the Committee for the reception of Evidence, and the bringing up of the Report, and during that period there existed some reason to believe that the inquiry would be resumed, either in the Session of Parliament then pending, or in the pre- sent Session. In anticipation of such an event, the Secretary, between the 8th and the 30th of July, framed another series of Questions and Answers, applicable to the Evidence given by the Witnesses adverse to the Commission after the Easter holidays ; and calculated also to call forth such Evidence as the Secretary could give, in explanation of the general management and pro- ceedings of the Board, and in justificationof himself against the many charges and insinuations which the Committee had enter- tained against him. The following pages contain both series of the Questions and Answers prepared in the manner before mentioned, together with the Observations on the Evidence of Messrs. Hewlett, II- lin^^ ''^^"^"-d the grand assize must themselves attend and sit with twelve of the jurors whom they returned Had such an inconvenience been^omplained hv \ZT t'""' J^'.' '^V'''''^'' ^^"^^ "«t »»^^^ been reminded, by some member of the Committee at least, that by one of the clauses of the Act (3 & 4 Will. IV.)/or simj^ifyin. thTLmed^^s (Hfli^^"'^ r/z. i^e^A^, to Land, all \U .ctU/^e^^^^^^^ Rifling exceptions, abolished after the 31st of December 1834 Nevertheless, by some unaccountable forgetfulness, it never occurl red to any one to ask when the actions respecting these rights of STm' «'''*r ^'"'^ instituted; although, oifthe very'day hi which Mr. Hewlett was examined, there were present, not ln\7the honourable and learned Chairman, but Mr. Jervis and Mr. ChailTs V lliers, both read ,n the jurisprudence of the countrv,and one of whom, at least, has now had some considerable practice of it. If this inquiry had been made, it must have turned out that the action in which was claimed the right of fishery, whether it were a common of fishery, a franchise of free tisheryf^r a severa fishery, was brought prior to Michaelmas Term J 832, when the f^U"" /!uTi '^'' ^'''' 'f ^'^^'^^^ion commenced and took hS; th I ^*l^,f ^^'^"« t« ^^^«ver the tithes were commenced before the lapse of the period mentioned in the ^c^>r shortening the hme required in Claims of Modus Decimandi /thnt is, durin" the session of Parliament in which the statute was parsed, or within one year from the end thereof. These Acts have made it not only unnecessary to go back in such cases to the rei-ns of Henry the Sixth, Elizabeth, and James the First, but to any pe iod beyond that for which the Docket Rolls are complete. ^ \edtnZ'7 'I""'' "'''.''"\' '7' "^ ^"^"^^^ "^^^^ t^^^t "^»«t have ed to the disclosure that the Legislature had provided a cure for these evils much more safe and efficacious than the making of docket.rolls; but, unfortunately, although of course quite unin- tentionally, such questions as were put to Mr. Hewlett served only r^^r^W 'q^ ^'''^"' "mystification. For instance, the Chairman says^ (504 ) Supposing that the lord of a manor was to come to you ^^ and ask you to search for antient documents in support of his ^'^l\u ^-^'^^^ f common, in opposition to the claim of a ^^ neighbouring lord or of the crown; supposing upon your ask- -LLr:''''- T ^f T" '•^^^"^^ti^"' »^e told you there was ^^ a tradition ih his family, vouched either bv the records of the « h^Au* ""' ''''?'! ^l""^ ""^ ^'''^'''y^ ""' ^^'"^ ""^^^^ ^ode, that there had been a trial of that very right at the assizes some time durin- e2 "" 5% Evidence of Mr, Hewlett, Evidence of Mr. Hewlett. 53 " the reign of Elizabeth, and that his ancestor's right was then " affirmed by a jury ; but he could not tell the precise year in which " the trial took place, or that he did not know the name of the de- *' fendant against whom his ancestor had tried that very action ?" Mr. Hewlett is then asked how he could find for the lord that decisive evidence of his right which that verdict would give ? His answer is, " We could not give him the least assistance, although " it might be certain, that upon the Verdict Rolls of the King s " Bench or other Courts, there was that verdict, guiding the " title, and establishing it to the fullest extent " Now, such a question as this, coming from a learned practising advocate, upon the heels of such three examples as Mr. Hewlett had given of the mischief felt from the imperfect state of the Docket Rolls to the early Judgments, must naturally lead persons, unacquainted with our amended law, to suppose that at present, in trying a right of common, it may probably be requisite to refer to the Verdict Rolls of the reign of Queen Elizabeth ; whereas, the Act for shortening the time of Prescription provides, that, where rights of Common and other profits, a prendre, have been taken and enjoy- ed for the period of sixty years, they shall be deemed absolute and indefeasible ; and, it is remarkable that, by this Act, the crown is placed upon the same footing with the subject. But, suppos- ing that, in cases such as are cited by Mr. Hewlett, it were still possible that there should be occasion to refer to the early Verdict Rolls of the Courts of the King s Bench, the Common Pleas, and the Exchequer on the Plea Side, it is well known that such cases have for years past been of rare occurrence ; and, supposing the Acts which I have referred to had never been passed, it is probable that the number would not have increased, as each adjudi- cation materially contributes to diminish future litigation respect- ing rights to incorporeal hereditaments, of the kind mentioned by Mr. Hewlett. The important consideration would then, even under that supposition, have arisen, whether, in order to obviate the inconvenience described by Mr. Hewlett, the Commissioners would have been justified in recommending the formation of indexes, (for the Docket Rolls are a species of index,) that would probably impose upon the country an outlay of 500,000/.: I say probably, because 1 have no regular estimate of the cost. A more useless, a more reckless outlay of the public money could not, in my judgment, be made. No Government is justified in a large expenditure with a view to contingencies of this nature. It would be absurd to establish a light-house, on a rock in some remote part of the sea seldom approached by our navigators, lest a British vessel should be wrecked upon it. It would be equally absurd, in my opinion, had the Prescription and Limitation Acts not be- come the law of the land, to complete the King's Bench, Com- mon Pleas, and Exchequer Docket Rolls, at so great cost as I have mentioned, in order that once in ten years, to use Mr. Hew- lett's language, he and other record agents might be able to shape their course differently, and (what I beg leave to doubt) in all probability an expense of 1500/. might be saved to some liti- gating parties. To those who, like some members of the present Committee, are desirous of propounding measures to Parliament for lessening the expense of litigation relative to civil rights, I would humbly suggest a measure of no dissimilar kind, but of infinitely more practical utility, — a measure, the beneficial effects of which would be felt weekly and daily in every Court, not only of Westminster Hall, but throughout the kingdom. I mean a General Registry of Births, Marriages, and Deaths. There is scarcely a paper of equity causes where the mischievous conse- quences of the want of such a Registry is not felt, in inquiries both as to the descent of real estate and as to the distribu- tion of personal estate ; and where the existence of it would most undoubtedly save thousands of pounds both to plain- tiffs and defendants, in how many cases of this sort have not only issues been directed, but new trials of such issues re- peatedly granted ? — which would not have been requisite had it happened that here, as in France and most other countries of Europe, births, marriages, and deaths were duly recorded. I have now nearly finished the remarks, which, in consequence of what had been suggested to me by those Commissioners with whom I have had communication, and also of what has occurred to my own mind, it was my intention to make upon Mr. Hewlett's examination. There is, indeed, a multitude of minor points upon which what he has stated cannot be deemed fair or correct. They principally relate to the contrast drawn by him between the state of the Augmentation Office in Mr. Caley's time, and the state of it in December last : now, although the credit of what- ever improvement has taken place is due to the present Record Board, I am compelled in candour to mention that much injustice has been done to Mr. Caley. But it does not appear that Mr. Hewlett had much knowledge of the condition of the Office whilst the late Mr. Caley was Keeper. To notice however all these little points, on which I differ from Mr. Hewlett, would occupy too much time : I shall therefore confine myself to one, which is undoubtedly the principal of them, and that is, the alleged improved arrangement of the records. In some part of my former evidence I expressed my be- lief that, although since Mr. Caley's death there might have been mere transfers of some portion of the records from one 54 Evidence of Mr. Hewlett, Evidence of Mr. Hewlett. 55 cupboard or locker to another, yet the arrangement remained the same. My belief was, that, whether the records had been arranged in the time of Mr. Caley and his predecessors chrono- logically, or whether they had been arranged topographically, (for certainly it never entered my head until 1 saw Mr. Hewlett's Evi- dence, that the Augmentation Office Records could be arranged both chronologically and topographically,) I say, my belief was, that any considerable change in the actual order of the records would have been productive of the most mischievous confusion, would have rendered all the Indexes useless, and would have made it impracticable for the persons best acquainted with the Office to prosecute any searches with success. This being the opinion that I had formed, 1 thought it incumbent upon me to take advantage of the Easter recess to investigate the matter: and the result of that investigation is, that whatever scheme Mr. Cole may have formed for the re-arrangement of the records, such scheme has not been executed. It is true, that in some instances records are no longer to be found in the spots where they were previously kept; but, under the circumstances, it is only fair and charitable to attribute the absence of them, rather to inadvertence or accident, than to any plan for improving the order in which they are placed. It also turns out that a topo- graphical arrangement is quite impossible ; and it is difficult to conceive how the notion of it could have entered the head of any person familiar with the nature of the great bulk of the public records, which are, for the most part, rolls consisting of numer- ous membranes, either sewed together consecutively so as to make one continuous roll, or else all fastened together at the top with a slip of parchment leaving the ends loose. Now, each roll gene- rally comprises particulars respecting lands belonging to a great number of manors, and situated in different counties. A direc- tion, therefore, for a topographical arrangement of those rolls (and they make the greater part of the records existing in the different offices) would be a direction for their destruction, qua Records, as no such arrangement could be effected without cutting the rolls to pieces : and, if you separate the intervening mem- branes, from the first membrane containing the title or heading, and the last membrane containing the signature, of course you take away the proofs of their age, subject, and authenticity. That this is the case is obvious, from a plain and simple statement which Mr. Charles Gay, at my request, has prepared, respecting the dismemberment of certain yearly Returns, made by the Crown's Receivers, of the possessions of the monasteries dissolved at the time of the reformation. They are commonly called the Ministers' Accounts, and form the most useful records of the Augmentation Office. Mr. Gay says, " The Ministers' Account, of 32 Henry VIII., for Cambridgeshire and Huntingdonshire, Mr. Cole has divided into four parts. It originally was in one roll having only one title to it." By this alteration, when the public requires a copy from the second, third, or fourth part, resort must be had to the first part for the title, because these three last parts have neither the reign nor the year, which appear only in the first part; besides, the Auditor's signature being on the last skin of the fourth part, should any copy be required out of the first, second, or third part, reference must be had to this fourth part. Mr. Gay says, he has experienced many instances of persons doubting whe- ther the Minister's Account were the original roll, in consequence of some membranes, thus separated, being without the Auditor's signature. The Minister's Account, of 32 Henry VIII., for Not- tingham, Derby, and Chester, has also, Mr. Gay states, been divided; the title of it alone showing the Minister's Account to be for the above three counties. Other Ministers' Accounts have likewise, it seems, been taken to pieces. This division of the membranes of a roll has, it is presumed, been made with a view to the projected topographical arrangement according to manors or counties. It is, however, a most improper act, and can- not be too highly reprobated, for it invalidates the record; and it is fortunate, (regard being had to such tithe causes instituted prior to the Statute of the 2d and 3d of the King as are still pend- ing,) that circumstances have arrested the progress of this operation of Mr. Cole, which I feel convinced could never have met with even the approbation of Mr. Hewlett, partisan as he is of Mr. Cole, had he fully comprehended it. I do not think it worth while to notice any other part of Mr. Hewlett's examination. EVIDENCE OF MR. ILLLINGWORTH. I HAVE remarked somewhat at length upon such parts of Mr. Hewlett's Evidence as have appeared to me the most likely to strike those members of this Committee, who, I may be permitted without offence to suppose, have little practical knowledge upon the subject of the antient records, their use, the mode of con- sulting them, and other matters of that kind. There are some observations which I deem it right also to bring forward upon the te^imony of Mr. Illingworth, a very worthy although a dis- appointed man, and one whom I, as an individual, should be very 1 1 56 Evidence of Mr, IlUngworth, glad lo see in possession of a pension^ being confident that a pen- sion would very rarely be better bestowed. Mr. Illingworth ap- pears to have been first employed by the Old Board about the year 180'2: he was then a solicitor of fifteen or sixteen years standing. The Commission does not appear to have had the advantage of his services after the year 1818; in which year the second volume of the Hundred Rolls, edited by him, was pub- lished. The first work, of which he was Editor, appeared about ten years before : it was the Testa de Neville ; respecting which I will remark, by the way, that an honorable and learned gentle- man, not a long time since, made a most erroneous statement in another place. I think it was said, that in this volume there are not fewer than l£0 mistakes in £0 lines. I shall take occasion, on some future occasion, to show that the individual, who com- municated the information upon which that statement rested^ could only have intended to deceive and mislead. When the in- formation was given, it does not seem to have occurred to that individual that the Editor would be his witness on this occasion. But to proceed. — Mr. illingworth, after he ceased to give any assistance to the Old Record Board, carried on an extensive busi- ness as a record-agent; and, by the knowledge which he mani- fested of the record system, (the late record system I may call it, for the recent acts of parliament have destroyed it,) attracted the attention of the Master of the Rolls, Sir John Leach, and I believe of Lord Brougham. It was, as I have always understood, at the suggestion of the former that Mr. Illingworth prepared some useful Observations on the Public Records of the four Courts at Westminster, and on the Measures recommended by the (Committee of the House of Commons in 1800 for rendering them more accessible to the public ; which observations pur- port to have been " drawn up by the desire of His Majesty's Com- missioners on the Public Records," and were ordered to be printed for their use in April 1831. Mr. Illingworth also furnished some other good practical papers to the members of the Commission and to the Secretary ; and it is quite true that some short papers, drawn up by him, are incorporated in the Secretary's compilation (for it professes to be nothing more, although it contains a good deal of original matter) on the Public Records, in two volumes octavo. Those papers, like all the others in that work, are avowedly taken from manuscript collections belonging to the Board. Out of more than a thousand pages, however, the excerpts from Mr. Illingworth's papers do not compose, as far as I can make out, a dozen ; and, if Mr. Illingworth *s name is not men- tioned as the author of those few pages, so no more are men- tioned the names of Sir Francis Palgrave and others, whose re* Evidence of Mr. Illingworth, 57 ports and essays furnished a much larger proportion of the work. I remember the two manuscript volumes which Mr. Illin>/ J" *' Presuming that the Close, Liberate, Fine, and others ot the regular series of Chancery Rolls, are one-fifth shorter than the Patent Rolls, a calendar of these would require the additional sum of • • • • • • ; •/ * ' * •/ " ^^'^'^^ " Presuming that the Miscellaneous Rolls, Writs, Ji'rivy Seals, Letters, Inquisitions, Chancery Proceedings, and other miscellaneous documents in the Tower, contain six tmies as much matter as the regular series of Rolls, a calculation which is below rather than above their apparent extent, a calendar of these would demand • • • • • • ^ I4,4UU " From which it appears that the formation of a calendar of the records in the Tower, exclusive of the Patent Rolls to „ 39 Hen. HI., would cost the sum of ^^bb,»uu. 437. Q, The amount of Mr. Stevenson's calculation is 94 JEkidence of Mr, Stevenson. Evidence of Mr, Stevenson. 95 366,800/., much more than three times the sum which you stated, at an early part of this inquiry, you thought it probable it would take to make calendars to the records at the Tower? — A. Yes. One third of the amount at which Mr. Stevenson arrived would have sufficed for the support of the statement which, assuming the data afforded by Mr. Petrie's Return to be correct, I liad ventured to make. 438. Q. Is it still your opinion that so large a sum as 100,000/. would be required to complete the calendars at the Tower? — A. I still think that some such sum is required ; unless a more expeditious and economical system for calendaring the Chancery Proceedings can be adopted, than appears to have been acted upon in the employment of the two supernumerary clerks at the Tower, for twenty years subsequent to 1809. From some recent experiments which my profession of an equity draftsman has ena- bled me to make, I am very much disposed to think that such a system may be found. 439. Q. In answer to Question 3790, and in speaking of the volumes of Chronological Abstracts of the documents transcribed for the New Edition of the Fadera, Mr. Stevenson says, '* In con- " nection which these volumes, I think it right, in justice to myself " and the Board, to mention that, knowing the general dis- " satisfaction which these Appendixes to the Report upon the New " Edition of the Fadera have excited in the mind of the public, I " have refrained for several months from continuing Appendix E., " thereby depriving myself of a considerable part of my annual " emoluments." Is it not one of these volumes of which Mr. P. F. Tytler speaks (Question 42.38)?— A. It is. 440. Q. What does Mr. Stevenson mean by saying that the Appendixes to the Report upon the New Edition of the Fadera have excited general dissatisfaction in the mind of the public?— A. I cannot tell. None of these Appendixes have been pub- lished. They have been seen by no persons, except the compilers and the members of this Committee. 441. Q. It is to the compilation of a part of these Appendixes that you have devoted your vacations for several years past? — A. Yes: to the compilation of Appendix A. 442. Q. Gratuitously?— A. Yes. 443. Q. And, Mr. Protheroe objecting to the purchase of books for that compilation, you bought those that were wantin Q The remaining works, mentioned by Mr. Cole, are Warto'n's History of English Poetry, Dunlop's History oj Fzc- tion, and Ellis's Metrical Romancesi—A, Those, and some other works of the same kind, were purchased to enable Mr. W ebster to compile a List of antient English Writers. When the accounts were audited, 1 well remember that I explained the use to which such works were to be applied. 613. Q. When did the audit take place, at which you gave this explanation?— A. In July 1833. , , ,. , o 614. Q. Mr. Protheroe was one of the Auditors, was he not.' — A. He was. . ,. , nr • 615. Q. What is become of this List of antient English Writers compiled by Mr. Webster?— A. It is in the library of the Board. The manuscript forms a thick folio volume. Mr. Black, who has used the volume, has furnished me with the following account of it, and of the object for which it was compiled:— *' Mr, Webster's MS. « The Alphabetical Catalogue of the Antient Authors of Great Britain and Ireland J'rom the Earliest Time to the Year 1600, was compiled by Mr Webster from the various bibliographical, biographical, and critical works of Leland, Bale, Pits, Tanner, Warton, Ritson, and others : it fills a very large folio volume in MS. This index contains all the authors who are mentioned in those works, arranged in the alphabetical order of their surnameSy and is useful tor reference when the surname alone is known; because the inconvenient principle on which the indices to the three first of those works, and almost the whole arrangement of Tanner's Bibliotheca, are constructed, is, to set down the personal name (such as Johannes or Robert us), and to disregard the surname, though by it the author may be chiefly known. The year in which the author flourished is also set down in this MS. ; and references are frequently made, by initial letters, to some of the afore-mentioned works. The prnicipal design of this compilation was, to assist in collecting notices of the works of our native authors, from the catalogues of continental libraries, which notices form a considerable portion of Appendix A. -, and for its con- Evidence of Mr. Cole. 131 struction some books now in the library of the Commission, and many others since exchanged, were obtained : some of the latter class are men- tioned in Mr. Cole's Evidence (No. 4786). " W. H. Black." *' July 1836." 616. Q. When was this volume compiled by Mr. Webster? — A. In the autumn of 1832. 6 17. Q. Can you refer to any instances in which manuscripts of early English poems and romance-writers are noticed in Ap- pendix A. as existing in the libraries to which your researches have been directed?— A. The principal poetical MSS. noticed in that Appendix (excepting such as are in Latin), belong to the Norman department of our literature. On a cursory inspection of the volume I find numerous notices of the romances of Mer- lin, Percival, Tristan, King Arthur, Leonoys and Iseud of Corn- wall, and others of the kind, in various languages, also Fabliaux relating to this country. There are also noticed a metrical life of Thomas Beket, in French; and a historical poem in four books, by Lidgate, beside others to which I cannot immediately turn. 6 18. Q. Was there not formerly a valuable collection of earlv poems and romances in the Heidelberg Library? — A. There was. 619. Q. It was carried to Rome during the thirty years' war? — A. Yes. 620. Q. Had you not obtained a list of such poems and ro- mances? — A. I had. 621. Q, Were not certain works on our antient poets and romance-writers necessary for the examination of such list? — A. Thev were. 622. Q. Did you examine such list yourself ? — A. I did: and I used those works for the purpose. At that period I had no books of the kind in my library. My reading had never taken that direction. 623. Q. About what do you suppose was the cost of the dif- ferent works mentioned in Mr. Cole's Evidence ? — A. Less than 10/. I doubt much whether the entire cost of the books of the kind mentioned in his Evidence, that have been purchased out of the Commission's funds, has exceeded that sum. 624. Q. In answer to Questions 4789 and 4790, Mr. Cole affirms, that "it is impossible to say" where the library of the Board h kept, and that he does not know where it is kept. Was not Mr. Cole employed in Boswell Court for several weeks? — A. He was. 625. Q. At that time all the rooms, on one floor, were filled with books belonging to the Board? — A. Yes, K 2 hi J 22 Evidence of Mr. Cole. 626 Q. And Dr. Drescher, and other persons in the employ of Se Commission, were constantly at work m those rooms ?-A. ^^27 Q. Could Mr. Cole be ignorant that those books be- longed to the Board?— A. Certamly not. u iqqo iS Q In a Return made to Parliament m December 1833. upon the motL of Mr. Charles Buller, of the Receipts tx- ^ c onH Proceedincrs of the Commission, is it not stated that a C a b^ Sdt the use of the Editois, Sub-Editors clerks and other persons in the employ of the Board; that ih library is in Boswell Court, where the general business of he Board^s cnrried on; that it is open from mne o clock m the morning until ten at night, and often to a later hour; that t: g'mlemen engaged in editing the works - f o-^^^^^^^^^ of any volumes they may want, at their own houses ; and that most of 2^m avail themselves of that liberty ?--A. It is so stated 6eQ. Q. That Return has been prmted by order of the House of Commons?-A. Yes. It was so printed m February 1834 630. Q. It has been several times referred to by Mr. Cole m his pamphlets and evidence?— A. It has. .44 631. Q. Is it not stated in the printed volume of Agenda now on the table, that a floor of the house in Boswell Court had been expressly fitted up for the reception of the """^erous volumes printed and manuscript, belongmg^o the Board ?-A. Yes: it is 632. Q. At what time was such statement printed?— A. In November 1832. , , . j 1 . 1 ^c 633. Q. Has not Mr. Cole largely cited that volume of A^^enda both in his pamphlets and evidence?— A. He has. ^634 Q. Can you account for Mr. Cole's affirming his igno- rance of the locality of the library of the Board ?— A. Not upon anv ground which I am willing to state. . 635 Q There were, some time since, some paragraphs m the newspapers, alleging that the books belonging to the Com- mission were kept in your private residence at St. John s Wood f — There were. o a xt 636. Q. Were such books ever kept there?— A. Never. 637. Q. In one of Mr. Cole's pamphlets, has he not asserted that books have been bought, out of the Commission funds, for no purpose but to make an ostentatious display on your bookshelves, and gratify your personal vanity? — A. He has. 63S. Q. Are the books of the Board displayed on your book- shelves? — A. No. A xr 639. Q. Have they ever been so displayed? — A. Never. 640. Q. From what has fallen from you in different parts of your examination, it would appear that you are yourself possessed Evidence of Mr, Cole. 133 of a considerable number of books ? — A. I am : and the innuendo, which it is impossible not to perceive is meant to be conveyed by some passages in Mr. Cole's pamphlets and evidence, com- pels me to advert to the extent and cost of my library. It consists of upwards of twelve thousand volumes, and was formed prior to the year 1830. Previously to the year 1828, I had spent in collecting it several thousand pounds: in that year I bought some large lots of books from Mr. Richard Priestley of Holborn, amounting to between fifteen hundred and two thousand pounds ; and, about the same time, 1 made some farther purchases, from Messrs. Treuttel & Co. of Soho Square, and Messrs. Dulau of the same place, to the amount of many hundred pounds more. I am certain that my motive for giving these details will not be misunderstood. It is with much reluctance and pain that I speak upon such a subject. 641. Q. Mr. Cole states, in answer to Question 4792, his belief " that frequent exchanges of books have been made." That is the case, is it not ? — Yes. 642. Q. In the Return made to Parliament in December 1853, already mentioned, is there not this passage? " Some books are only wanted for temporary purposes, and, when done vvith, will be exchanged for others, with the exception of those (principally German works) of which no copies are to be found in the library of the British Museum, and which, it is proposed, should be pre- sented to that institution." — A. There is. 643. Q. Is it not stated, in the Return made to Parliament in January last, and now on the table of the Committee, " It is con- ceived that for the future the yearly outlay for books will be very triflin occupier there for the lord the King during the time the demesne lands. ) aforesaid." Evidence of Mr, Cole. 135 653. Q. How does the third part of the roll begin ?--'Thus: — " Lands and Possessions of the late Monastery of Ramsey, (that is to say), in the County of Huntingdon. The lordship of Ramsey,^ with tbe farm or grange f of Bryggnige, and the> site of tbe late monas- L tery aforesaid. J 654. Q. How does the fourth part begin? — A. Thus : — " Lands and possessions be- "J " The account of Thomas Tunney and longing to the late mo- f Robert Hatley, receivers and collectors of nasteryof Saint Neot's, in ^ the rents and farms there during the time the couiKy of Huntingdon. 3 aforesaid." 655. Q. In parts two and four there is nothing to show what is " the time aforesaid?'' — A. No. You must go to the heading of the roll. 656. Q. And in the third part no mention is made of any period to which the accounts belong? — A. No. 657. Q. Mr. Hardy, then, is wrong in alleging, or at least assuming, that each of these parts has a contemporary title 01 heading, and is perfect in itself, although the accounts containecv in the diflferent parts may be distinct and unconnected ? — He is wrong. 658. Q. By Question 248? you are asked, " Will you under- " take to say that the parts separated had any connection what- " ever with each other?" You answer, " I will : the heading and '* the signature apply to the whole of the roll." You are then asked (Question 2488), " Do you mean that two portions are '* respectively deprived of the value which they would have in " courts of law from the heading and the signature ?" You reply, " I mean that all the portions intervening between the first por- " tion which contains the heading, and the last portion which *' contains the signature, would suffer this deprivation. Where *' an office-copy or an examined copy of a parcel of the ** record is taken, or made to be produced in evidence, the head- " ing and the signature are included; and although in some cases " the latter may be dispensed with, yet the former is invariably *' required, as without it the extract would be dateless and unin- " telligible."* As a lawyer, do you adhere to the opinion here .expressed? — A. Most assuredly 1 do. It is a point upon which no attorney's clerk can entertain any doubt. 659. Q. In answer to Question 4845 Mr. Cole says, " I was " introduced to Mr. Cooper at his own request; the first official " communication I received, which was in writing, was to know • These quotations are from the sheets of Evidence, as originally printed. jgQ Evidence of Mr. Cole. " whether I would become the Editor of the ParUa.nentaryWrits « Tn ca e Sir Francis Palgrave should rehnqu.sh U; Mr Cooper « Loosed to give me oWl. a year, and an allowance of 200/. a .. ^ear for clerks ; this proposition was never earned into effect « and after I had quitted Sir Francis Palgrave's employment, I « assisted Mr. Hardy in the transcription of the Close Rolls at .. tie Tower." Mr. Cole is then desired to state in what shape me iu>>ci. '< Bv verbal communica- this offer was made to him. He sa)S, ^? ^^J^^,^» ^ . . - tion by writing, and through a mutual friend. Mr. Cole is far r; asked (Question 4849), whether, m the written commu- StL,^^^^^^^ arrangement was included, and he ad s that it was not. The Chairman then says (Question 4850), Was t ve baP" Mr. Cole replies, " The communication respecting « pay ment was verbal ; but I have a pamphlet to which M r. Cooper s « ^an e was attached, in which he says, upon the strength of my « accepting the engagement, ^ It could be shown that the Parlia- « "Sry VVrits might be edited, includmg every description of .* abour, with equafif not greater expedition and accuracy, for « 500/. per annum, with an allowance oi 200/. a year for two derks ; " tl^ is at pacre 68 of that pamphlet, of which Mr. Cooper - claimed to be the author ; and Mr. Hardy, who was the mutual ** friend conducting the bushiess between us, stated also in a •* nimuhlet, * That he had consulted with a gentleman perfectly .* competent to the task, and who concurs with me entirely as to " the practicability of the plan, and who will be quite ready to - undertake the work, and devote his whole VT/"^^'^^"^' ^ J « should the present Editor decline editing it.' Mr. Hardy alluded « in that passage to a communication from Mr. Cooper made by « him to me ; there too, is the actual proposition for the editor- '* ship made by Mr. Cooper in his own writing : he says, 15y " havin- the plan laid down, would you feel yourself competent *' to undertake the editing of the Parliamentary Writs; and if so " what remuneration would you require? Could you furnish " the Commissioners with an estimate and a plan i In answer to Question 4859, Mr. Cole again adverts to your having offered him r situation of 500/. a year. Did you ever offer to Mr. Cole a situation of 500/. a year?- A. Certainly not : such an idea never came into my head. „, ^^ , n j • *v, ^ 660 Q. To what proposal is it that Mr. Cole alludes, in those passages of his Evidence that have been just read ?— A. He alludes to some queries which, at the suggestion of Mr. Hardy, were submitted to him in the month of May 18:^2, relative to the mode adopted in editing the Parliamentary Writs, with a view of ascertaining whether that work, if it should be contmued, could not be produced at a cheaper rate. ^.r tt , r 661. Q. Who prepared such queries?— A. Mr. Hardy, 1 pre- Evidence of Mr, Cole, 137 sume. He produced them as fit queries to be put to Mr. Cole. Certainly they were not prepared by me : the sole design of them was to elicit such information as I have stated. 662, Q. You sent those queries to Mr. Cole ? — A. I did. 663, Q. Were such queries accompanied by any letter? — A, Yes. The following is a copy of it : — *' New Boswell Court, Lincoln's Inn, May 7th, 1832. " Sir, You are requested to answer the accompanying Questions, and to furnish any further information which you may judge useful to the Record Commissioners, in considering the propriety of any alteration in the mode of editing and publishing the Parliamentary Writs. ^ I am, Sir, Your obedient humble Servant, " Mr. Cole." C. P. Cooper, Sec. Com\ Pub. Rec." 664, Q. Have you a copy of those Questions? — A. I have: they were as follows : " I. Was the transcript examined previous to its going to the printers, and if so by whom was it examined ? II. Was the transcript compared with the record by the eye, or was it examined aloud, that is by cross readings, one person reading the record and another the transcript, and vice versa ? III. When the proof sheet came from the printers, by whom was it ex- amined ? IV. Was it compared with the record by the eye, or was it examined aloud, one person reading the record and another the transcript ? V. When the revise came from the printer's, state what examination it went through. Was there ever more than one revise of each sheet ; if so, how many, and by whom examined ? VI. Were the names of persons and places identified, previous to the transcript going to press ? VII. Who identified the names of persons and places, and what labour and time was used in identifying the names in each sheet ? VIII. How was the chronological abstract made? Did the editor abstract each document himself, and if he did not who did it? Please to state the process of making it. IX. Was the copy of the abstract ever altered after it had been set up in print j if so, state how often on an average ? X. How was tlie calendar of writs and returns made ? Did the editor make it himself, or did he merely give the form and entrust the working part of it to his clerks ? State the process of making the calendar ? XI. Throughout the text the modern dates are calculated, for example at p. 78, Vol. I., " dieMercur' p'xima post festum See' Lucie Virginis" appears in the margin to be the 17th of December 1298. Who made these calculations throughout the work ? XII. How was the alphabetical digest made ? Did the editor make ISg Evidence of Mr. Coh. it himself? State bow much he did, and the whole process of makiug ' XIII. Was the digest ever materially altered after it was set up in print, and if so, how often ? State every particular connected with the making of the digest ? , . i u XIV. How was the index of names of persons made, and by whom was it made and corrected ? State every particular connected with it > XV. From actual experience can you advise any plan whereby the Parliamentary Writs could be brought out at a cheaper rate ? XVI. By having a plan laid down, would you feel yourself competent to undertake the editing of the Parliamentary Writs; and if so, what remuneration would you require ) Could you furnish the Commissioners with an estimate and a plan ?" Evidence of Mr. Cole, 139 t€ *€ G^D. Q. What answer did Mr. Cole make to queries 15 and 16?— A. His answer to query 15 was, " I have no hesitation in •* stating, that the work, if continued, might be as efficiently edited", provided the class of documents was strictly defined, and as correctly produced, at a very much lower rate ; but I " feel considerable delicacy in offering any opinion upon, or ** making any counter proposition to Mr. Palgrave's mode, and " respectfully decline to submit any further answer." To query 16 his answer was, " It does not belong to me to assume more " capacity than what the Commissioners may believe me to be " possessed of, as judging from a nine years' servitude at one " subject, and the evidence which the above statement" (alluding to the answers to the other questions) ** exhibits of my services " in the composition of the two first volumes of the Parliamentary *< Writs, already published ; but I am quite willing, if the Com- " missioners desire me, specifically to make any statement, or " submit any opinion upon the general utility of the work, and to *' furnish both in as defined and concise a manner as I may have ** it in my power to do," (d^^, Q. Was Mr. Cole desired to make any such statement, or submit any such opinion, as he expresses his willingness to do in the answer to the l6th query ? — A. No. 667. Q. Was it not, in the month of May 1832, the desire of several of the Commissioners and of yourself, that the work called the Parliamentary Writs should be discontinued ? — A. It was. 668. Q. Was not such desire known to Mr. Hardy and' Mr. Cole? — A. It was. There is an expression in Mr. Cole's answer to query 15, which implies a doubt as to the continuation of the work. 669. Q. When Mr. Cole sent you his answers to these queried, were they accompanied by any letter ? — A. Yes. The following is a copy : — " 4, Adam Street, Adelphi. 8t/i Ma\f, 1832. *' Sir, In obedience to your letter of the 7th instant, I respectfully submit the following statement to the Board of Commissioners on the Public Records. ** I have replied, Sir, to your interrogatories as clearly as my recollec- tion serves me ; but I must request permission, if need there be, to correct any trifling errors, negative or positive, into which I may have fallen, for I confess I had no motive at the time to fix in my mind all the minutiae of operations relative to the first volume of the Parliamen- tary Writs. I beg, however, to submit, that my answers with respect to the seconclf volume of that work may be received with their fullest inter- pretation. I have the honour to subscribe myself. Sir, Your most obedient humble servant, " C. P. Cooper, Esq. Henry Cole." Sec. Com. Pub. Records, &c. &c. &c." 670. Q. Have you the passages in the two pamphlets, relied upon by Mr. Cole as showing that you had made him such a proposal as he alleges ? — A. I have. The one passage occurs in the Observations upon the Chancery CalendarSy and the Parlia- mentary Writs, It is preceded by some remarks upon Sir F. Palgrave's salary of 500/. It is in these words, *^ Independently, however, of this salary, there can be no question that the remu- neration for the literary labour bestowed on the Parliamentary Writs is very much too high. It has averaged 1400/. per annum, and Mr. Palgrave has very recently estimated the expense of editing each succeeding volume at iGoO/.; whereas it can be clearly demonstrated that the work may be edited, including every description of literary labour, with equal, if not greater expedition and accuracy, for 500/. per annum, with an allowance of 200/. a year for two clerks.'* The other passage is not in a pamphlet printed by Mr. Hardy, but in some papers printed for the use of the Board, entitled Papers relative to a Complaint made hy the Editor of the new edition of the Rolls of Parliament, No. 1. of those papers is a Letter from Mr. Hardy to myself, dated the 17th of January 1832, and containing some proposals and suggestions relative to the publications of the Board. '* The first proposal," says Mr. Hardy, " which I shall take leave to sub- mit, is with a view to a much more economical, and yet equally advantageous form of publication of the Parliamentary Writs, lately edited by Mr. Palgrave ; and I feel no hesitation in ofifering 140 Evidence of Mr. Cok. freely any suggestions on this head, as I have heard it confidently reported to be the fixed intention of that gentleman to reluiqu.sh all further connection with the work alluded to. owing to =» dis- satisfaction with the pecuniary remuneration now offered to him, !he learned Editor considering that less than 100()/. per amium would not be an adequate compensation for the time and talents bestowed upon it." He subsequently, after usmg an expression importing a doubt whether any future volumes would be under- taken, ("if it should be the intention of the present Commission to complete, under any circumstances, a work that has already cost so much.") developes his plan. The expense of one volume be calculates as follows : — 948 pages, containing an average of 20 folios per I. s- d. page, 18,960 at 4(/. per folio ;•••,•■*■■ For the time expended in collecting and selecting .^^ „ q matter : * For literary labour in examining transcripts, and cor- recting the press, 237 sheets, at the rate of 21. 2s. per ^^^ ^^ ^ sheet 2QQ Q Q Indices Nominum, virorum et locorum ^^ Total cost of the volume, independent of printing. . \^^^ ^^ Q He adds his opinion that a volume of this magnitude could not be completed in less than eighteen months. He then says, •' It would be proper to observe, that, in order to edit this work according to the proposed plan, it would be requisite that any person undertaking it should give up the whole of his time and attention, exclusive of all other employment ; and, therefore 1 need scarcely add, that it will be quite impossible for me, situated as I am, to edit it. I have, however, consulted with a gentleman perfectly competent to the task, who concurs with me entirely as to the practicability of the plan, and who would be quite ready to undertake the work, and devote his whole time and talents exclusively to it, should the present Editor still declme editing it on any other than his own plan." This last is the passage referred to by Mr. Cole. t,, ,t i n j j • *u\. 671. Q. Was it Mr. Cole to whom Mr. Hardy alluded in this last passage ?— A. 1 have no doubt that it was. 6n Q. Was Mr. Hardy ever authorized by you to propose to Mr. Cole to undertake this work ?— A. He never was. Mr* Hardy was obviously endeavouring only to ascertain what was the most moderate cost, at which the work could be properly produced. ^ ,. 673. Q. His letter says nothing of any salary to the iiditor, or of any allowance to his clerks.— A. No. The Editor is to Evidence of Mr, Cole. 141 be paid principally per sheet ; and it will be observed, that if, as Mr. Hardy states, one volume could not be completed in less than eighteen months, the Editor could not, according to this plan, receive so much as oOOZ. a year. 674. Q. How came it to be stated in the first pamphlet, that the Parliamentary Writs could be edited for 500/. per annum, with an allowance of ^00/. a vear for two clerks ? — A. I do not remember the precise grounds upon which that statement was made. The Committee is aware that the pamphlet was origi- nally written by Sir H. Nicolas. As well as I recollect, it was the joint opinion of Sir H. Nicolas, Mr. Hardy, and myself, from all the information we had procured, that, supposing the work wej-e to go on, it might very well be edited for a sum of 700/. a year. 675. Q. But you never made any ofter to Mr, Cole to become the Editor of the work ? — A. Never. 676. Q. When had you first any communication with Sir H. Nicolas, on the subject of the Parliamentary Writs? — A. About December 1831. I have a letter from him, dated the 29th of that month, from Brighton, regretting that he had not time before he left town for that place, to look into the Parliamentary Writs, with the view of stating what seemed to him the most eligible plan for continuing that work; but that if I could wait his return, or could lend him a copy of the two volumes there, he would with great pleasure submit his opinions on the subject. 677. Q. You have already stated that the assertion of Mr. Cole, that you induced him to enter into the direct service of the Commission, is not correct, and that it was at his own request that such change in his position took place? —A. Yes: I have so stated. 678. Q. Mr. Cole entered the direct service of the Commis- sion about February 1833?— A. He did. 679. Q. He quitted the service of Sir F. Palgrave in the au- tumn of 1832?— A. Yes, the end of the summer or the begin- ning of the autumn. 680. Q. But although there was no intention of appointing Mr. Cole, as he alleges. Editor of the Parliamentary Writs, was there not an intention, prior to February 1833, of giving him some other employment immediately under you or the Board? — A. Yes. It was in contemplation to employ him in collating the six printed volumes of the Rolls of Parliament with the ori- ginals. 681. Q. At what period was this?— A. In April 1832. 682. Q. What remuneration was Mr. Cole to receive? — A. I am not quite sure. He was to receive a trifle more than 142 Evidence of Mr. Cole, Evidence of Mr, Cole, US the amount of his salary under Sir F. Palgrave; I rather believe that, instead of 125/. a year, he was to receive 150/. 683. Q. Have you any particular reason for thinking that 150/. was the amount? — Yes; 1 find that sum specified in a Statement drawn up by Mr. Cole at the time. 684. Q. Is this the arrangement alluded to in the letter of Mr. Cole, which you cited at the commencement of your exami- nation upon his Evidence ? — A. Yes. It is the arrangement which was not completed. Mr. Cole still remaining with Sir F. Palgrave. 685. Q. Have you any letters or documents on the subject of Mr. Cole's quitting the service of Sir F. Palgrave? — A. Yes; I have several. I have two Letters and a Statement. The one letter is dated the 26th of April 1832, and the other is dated the Ist of May 1832. The first Letter is as follows. It is addressed to myself. " 4, Adam Street, Adelphi* April 26, 1832. " Sib, Mr. Palgrave requested me to put on paper the substance of the instructions which I received from you, respecting the collation of the Parliament Rolls, and I furnished him with the following state- ment : — * Mr. Cooper proposed to employ me on the collation of the Parlia- ment Rolls, in order that a copy, purporting to be a true copy, as to meaning and substance, word for word, might exist. By meaning it is to be understood, that the copy was not to be made to agree literally and in punctuation with the Record, (whereby the copy, on account of the numerous small alterations, would be rendered inconvenient for refer- ence,) but that I was to make such a copy of the Record as would enable the reader to ascertain with accuracy the contents of the same.* I have the honour to remain. Sir, Your most obedient servant, «* C. P. Cooper, Esq." Henry Cole," The second letter is also addressed to myself. I will read an extract from it. " Upon my determination to quit the employment of Mr. Palgrave, with the hopes of obtaining some other more consonant with what I be- lieved to be my capacity, I took the liberty of calling upon you. Sir, and added to the kindness shown by you, I found my hopes realized by your offer to suggest to the Record Commission to employ me under its im- mediate direction ; and you further proposed, in the event of my imme- diately quitting Mr. Palgrave's service, and in order to secure my ser- vices, which you did me the honour to say that you thought worthy of being employed, that you would set me to work on the collation of the Parliament Rolls, in the interval of the Commissioners* approbation of your proposal to take me under their direction. You further desired, that when I had left Mr. Palgrave, (whom I was to inform of my pro- posed employment on the Parliament Rolls,) I would call upon you. I did so, and understood from you that some remonstrances having been made by Mr. Palgrave to this specific employment, you were unable to make any arrangement for employing me, and that the proposed collation was abandoned. Since this occurred, Mr. Palgrave expressed a desire that I should remain with him for some period longer, wbich I have agreed to do." 686. Q. What is the Statement of Mr. Cole, which you have mentioned? — A. It was prepared by him in the month of June 1832, and disproves all the material allegations in his Evidence, upon the points touching which you are now inquiring. I will read it to the Committee. Mr. Coles Statement y June 1832. '' On the 16th of April, Mr. Thomas DufFus Hardy, in passing con- versation, asked me whether I could recommend to him any one compe- tent to the transcription of records, and who would be contented with remuneration at Ad. per folio. I answered in the negative, as to my acquaintance with any person. It afterwards occurred to me that this circumstance offered me good opportunity of again remonstrating with Mr. Palgrave, as I had before frequently done, upon the small remune- ration which I received from him, after my long servitude. It is due to Mr. Palgrave to say, that, in raising my salaiy progressively, he always told me that 120/. or 125/. would be the maximum of payment for which, under his limited authority, he would hold himself responsible to me. Accordingly, I told Mr. Palgrave somewhat in these words, — that I considered that I was paid too little j that if I were a total stranger to the usual routine of records, (instead of having served a nine years* apprenticeship,) and were able merely to copy them correctly, I could procure employment at a rate three times higher than my present wages; that I knew that my labour was much below the market price, but I had no wish to quit his service, provided a suitable arrangement was made between us. Mr. Palgrave did not then exhibit much reluctance to part with me, if I felt disposed to leave himj and he told me that he had no power to increase my salary, that his prospects of doing so were uncer- tain, and that he would advise me to offer myself to Mr. T. D. Hardy. I acted according to his advice, and, on the following day (17th April) I waited upon Mr. Cooper, to whom, before this time, I was unknown, in order to obtain his authority to proceed to work under the directions of Mr. T. D. Hardy. During this interview, I informed Mr. Cooper that, for a time past, dissatisfied with my ill remuneration, I had been seeking some other situation. Mr. Cooper observed, that he thought it would be a pity for me to relinquish my connexion with the Record Commission, and allow any experience in record matters which I might have gained, to unfructify, and just at a time, too, when it might be in demand. He proposed to suggest to the Commissioners 1 144 Evidence of Mr. Cole, to employ me imraediately under the Board, and that before any definite arrangement could be made, in order to secure my services, he would find me something temporary to do, either in transcription or other- wise- and at the moment, seeming to recollect himself, he said some- what' in these words, * I should much like to know the accuracy of the present edition of the Rolls of Parliament ; and since it may be long before Mr. Palgrave's reprint takes place, I think I shall put you on that work to ascertain the state of the case.' We agreed, that, as this em- ployment was only to be preliminary to my introduction to the Board. I should be paid at the rate of 150/. per annum, a sum which I myself proposed as one that would temporarily satisfy my expectations. I in- formed Mr. Palgrave of my visit to Mr. Cooper, and he warmly recom- mended my immediate acceptance of the offer. I remember his words, which were these,—' You cannot hesitate for a moment to accept the proposal' and it was settled that I should leave him on the following Monday.' When I told Mr. Palgrave that my first employment was to be the collation of the Rolls of Parliament, he answered, * Upon that point I must speak to Mr. Cooper.* Mr. Palgrave called on Mr. Cooper, urged the employment of me, even instancing various matters in which I could be most useful; but he remonstrated against the specific work on the Rolls, as a trespass upon his property. The event of all was this. Mr. Cooper immediately abandoned his project for the collation of the Rolls, and even declined entering into any engagement with me until a Board of the Commissioners should be held, unless indeed Mr. Palgrave should put * his wish that I should seek for some other employment' into reality. Mr. Palgrave expressed a desire that I should continue a short time with him, offering me, on his own responsibility, an increased rate of salary, at 150/. per annum. I am still remaining in his service." 687. Q. With whom did this project of collating the six printed volumes of the Rolls of Parliament with the originals arise? — A. I do not recollect. It is one of the proposals in the letter of Mr. Hardy, some passages from which I have already cited. Mr. Hardy, after observing, that owing to the change of representation now under the consideration of Parliament, the comparative utility of the Parliamentary Writs would be considerably diminish- ed, as a great portion of the documents there printed relates to matters of parliamentary representation, which, in the event of the proposed alteration taking place, would no longer be vexata question says, " If the present Commission should be influenced by this consideration, and come to a determination to discontinue so expensive a work as the Parliamentary Writs, I beg to direct your notice to a plan including all the purposes of the original proposition, and which will be at the same time far more cheap and expeditious, and equally advantageous to the public ; viz. to collate the printed volumes of the Rolls of Parliament with the original Rolls, noticing in an interleaved copy all errors, although \ V^ i';\\ Evidence of Mr, Cole. 145 it is presumed that these will not be found to be either frequent or material, as the only variations between the record and the print appear to consist in the abbreviations, the words in the latter being chiefly extended or written in full ; and it is farther proposed, that such collated copy should be deposited in the library of the British Museum, for the benefit and convenience of the public." 688. Q. Does Mr. Hardy suggest that Mr. Cole should be employed in this collation? — A. No, he does not. 689. Q. But it occurred to you, when Mr. Cole called upon you in April 1832, that, supposing he had then quitted Sir F. Pal- grave, it was a species of work upon which he might be usefully put? — A. Just so. 690. Q. And Mr. Cole himself admits that he was to be paid, for this task, after the rate of 150/. a year ? — A. He so admits in the Statement drawn up by him in June 1832. 691. Q. And, in that Statement, he is wholly silent as to the project of engaging him to edit the Parliamentary Writs at a salary of 500/. a year? — A. Yes: he is wholly silent. 692. Q. And yet the queries, which he aflfirms contained the offer of this lucrative appointment, were sent to him, and his answers returned, in the beginning of May preceding? — A. Yes. 693. Q. And were not the two pamphlets, containing passages relied upon by him in support of his assertions, printed previously to the month of June 1832? — A. Yes: the first pamphlet was printed the 30th of April 1832, and the second pamphlet, contain- ing Mr. Hardy's letter, was printed the 9th of May 1832. 694. Q. It seems, from Mr. Cole's Statement, which you have read, that he continued in the service of Sir F. Palgrave some time after the different circumstances just detailed had occurred, — A. He did. 695. Q. Sir F. Palgrave raised Mr. Cole's salary from 125/. to 150/. — A. Yes. 696. Q. Have the kindness to state the terms upon which Mr. Cole eventually entered your employ ? — A. They are accurately stated in a letter written by me to Mr. Cole in the month of June 1833. The material part of that letter is as follows: " You were lately a clerk of Sir Francis Palgrave, at a salary, as well as I recollect, of 125/. a year. You now fill a similar situation under the Secretary, but your salary has been raised to 150/. per annum." Again, " You are quite correct in stating that a pros- pect was held out to you for additional emolument, supposing that *you were willing to devote your evenings to transcription, editor- ship, &c. : but once, when I mentioned the matter to you, I understood you preferred dedicating your leisure hours to literary pursuits; and certainly you are not justified in mentioning such L 146 Evidence of Mr. Cole, supposed additional emoluments as forming any part of my en- gagement with you." 697. Q. In July 1833, an application was made by Mr. Cole to have his salary raised ? — A. Yes. 698. Q. And you consulted the Board upon the subject? — A, I did. The Board declined to authorize me to raise Mr. Cole's salary, but did not interfere with the discretion that I possessed, of giving him extra work out of office-hours. 699. Q. Had not this arrangement the good fortune to obtain Mr. Protheroe's approbation ? — A. It had. 700. Q. Have you any written proof of this ? — A. Yes. Mr. Protheroe, in a letter written to me on the 12th of December 1833, says, *' There is a great and a very beneficial difference to the Commission, between augmenting a salary and the giving a man some more pay if he will do more work. On this latter system I believe that you have very judiciously proceeded with Cole. He has calculated the rate of remuneration he wishes to receive, by Sir F. Palgrave's salary, and Caley's, and the former payments of the Board. But as this matter is settled, and you are inclined to give him an augmentation of his receipts whenever that is justifiable, I need not write more on this point; and, as I rather like him, I will not bear hard on him for entertaining a full estimation of his own abilities." 701. Q. In answer to Question 4852, Mr. Cole says, " Mr. " Cooper, about January 1833, having got access to the Exchequer *' Records, desired to have some person who could perform the " work of arranging and cataloguing those records, and assist in doing what he termed writing reports for the Commission : he applied to Mr. Hardy, to know if I were willing to undertake ** the work ; of course I had no objection ; but when Mr. Cooper " mentioned the terms, they were such that I was unwilling to *' accept them : at that very time, I was earning, on the most in- " ferior labour, transcription, an income of 300/. a year. The " Secretary, Mr. Cooper, proposed that I should take the work above described at his chambers, for 1 50/. a year salary, and that I might gain at the least 150/. a year more in writing reports and in performing any other similar work. This vague proposal •* was exceedingly unsatisfactory to me, and I quite declined it ; '* but Mr. Cooper said he thought he must * befriend me in spite " of myself,' and what he did was to tell Mr. Hardy to suspend " the transcription of the Close Rolls, and that I should have no " other employment in the Commission, unless I accepted that he *' offered me; my circumstances did not enable me to leave the " Commission then, and I was necessitated to accept his proposal. I waited three or four weeks before the subject was renewed : I then spoke to Mr. Cooper, who was exceedingly indignant at €( « *f t€ it (( « Evidence of Mr. Cole. 147 « my talking to him about the necessity of a written engagement, « and he did next to telling me to go out of the room." Did you make to Mr. Cole in the month of January 1833, or at any other time, such a proposal as is here stated?— A. No : I never proposed any other emolument to Mr. Cole than such as is stated in my letter of the 29th of June 1833. 702. Q. Mr. Cole therefore could not have '* quite declined such a proposal ?— A. The proposal, never having been made, could not be declined. 703. Q. Did Mr. Cole call upon you in January 1833 f— A. He did. It was toward the end of the month. 704. Q. You offered him employment under yourself as Secre- tary, at a salary of 150/. a year? — A. Yes. 705. Q. Did Mr. Cole demur to the amount, as being too small f — A. He did. . . 706. Q. Did you tell Mr. Hardy to suspend the transcription of the Close Rolls, and that Mr. Cole should have no other employ- ment in the Commission, unless he accepted that offered by you? —A. Certainly not. On the contrary, I well recollect that, sup- posing Mr. Hardy could not continue to employ Mr. Cole, I offered to give him temporary work, until such time as he could make up his mind what course it would be to his advantage to take. But 1 rather think that I had some conversation with Mr. Hardy upon the amount of Mr. Cole's salary, and that, when I was reminded that Mr. Cole could earn more than 150/. a year by transcribing the Close Rolls, I may have observed that such employment was only temporary. , , r • j 707. Q. Did you observe to Mr. Hardy that you must befriend Mr. Cole in spite of himself ?— A. I think it very likely that I did. 708 Q. Had not the Board determined that the Close Rolls for the reigns of John and Henry the Third only should be tran- scribed ? — A. It had. . 709. Q. And the transcription of them was begun in l^ebruary 1832? A. Yes. 7 10 Q.' In the spring of 1833 then a considerable part of these rolls must have been already copied ?— A. Yes, and printed too. The first volume of the Close Rolls, which contains the reign ot John and part of the reign of Henry the Third, was published in July 1833. The second volume was begun, but has not been proceeded with. It will contain the remaimng rolls to the end of the reign of Henry the Third, and complete the work. 711. Q. It is not improbable, therefore, that you may have suggested that the transcription of the Close Rolls might be sus* pended.— A. Very likely I may have made a suggestion of that kind. l2 148 Evidence of Mr, Cole, 712. Q. Such transcription has, in fact, been suspended. — A, It was suspended some time after Mr. Cole entered my employ. 713. Q. Did Mr. Cole talk to you about the necessity of a written engagement? — A. I have no recollection of any conversa- tion of the kind. Certainly it would have surprized me. It is, I believe, not very usual when you engage a clerk or a servant, who is to receive a fixed salary or fixed wages, to enter into a written engagement. Mr. Cole, I well recollect, stipulated that he should receive his salary monthly. During the whole time that he was in my employ, his salary was paid to him monthly, by my clerk Mr. George Smith. The first payment, being the sum of \2L 10s., was made on the 2d of March 18.33. Such payment, it seems to me, answered all the ends of a written engagement. 714. Q. Mr. Cole says, in answer to Question 4863, that upon learning that the Board had declined for the present ta comply with his application for the augmentation of his salary, that he determined then that he " would seek for some other em- •' ployment, and had fully resolved upon leaving the Commission." To what period is Mr. Cole referring? — A. To August 1833. 715. Q. Did Mr. Cole in any way communicate to you that, in consequence of the Board having declined to alter the terms upon which you had engaged him, he had thought of leaving the Commission? — A. No. 716. Q. What reply did he make when you informed him of the decision of the Board ? — A. He wrote me a letter, dated Gth of August 1833; in which lie says, " I beg to thank you for your letter of yesterday, informing me of the decision of the Board upon my application to them ; and however much, in a personal point of view, I might regret it, yet, on public grounds, I cannot be otherwise than satisfied with its economical spirit." 717. Q. In answer to the same Question 4863, Mr. Cole says that, upon receipt of a note from you, dated the l6th of August 1833, he waited upon you immediately, and, to his great sur- prize, you told him you thought it was for the good of the public that he should make at least 300/. a year; that, although the Board had determined he should make only 150/., you were satisfied that the interest of the public required he should make at least 300/. a year. What statement did you make to Mr. Cole on the occasion of which he speaks ? — A. I told him that the Board had declined to increase his salary, but that it had still left me at liberty to employ him out of office-hours; and that, although perhaps I had reason not to be altogether satisfied with the course which he had taken, yet if he desired it he might continue to have extra work. I do not believe that I said the interest of the public required that he should make at least 300/. a year : I probably. Evidence of Mr, Cole. 149 however, used some jocular expression purporting that he would give the public full consideration for whatever he might receive out of the public purse. 718. Q. Did Mr. Cole express any surprize at your communi- cating to him that you would continue to give him extra work ? — A. Certainly not. " When he wrote his letter of the 6th of August, he must have been pretty well aware, from his experience of my conduct and character, that it was not probable that I should de- prive him of any advantage which he had previously enjoyed, whilst in my employ. 719. Q. Mr. Cole, after mentioning, in answer to Question 4951, that he had requested you, by letter, after you had suspended the printing of his Calendars, to furnish him with the order of the Board for the commencement of them, and that you did not com- ply with his request, goes on to say, '* I repeated my request some ** months afterwards, and the Secretary then (I being dismissed from the Commission) sent me something which certainly and most positively was not the order of the Board which he read to me when 1 was first authorized to commence the editorship of the Calendars. Mr. Cooper did not give me a written copy of the order of the Board when I commenced my labours, but " read to me the order. I particularly remarked that there was " an express injunctioj from the Board, not to omit certain mat- " ters which had been printed in Dugdale's Monasticon, and my '* name was mentioned in the Board's order. I have since asked ** Mr. Protheroe if he had any recollection of the subject, and he '* perfectly well recollects the circumstance. The order of the ** Board, as transmitted to me by the Secretary, consisted merely " of words, that the said or foregoing catalogue go to press with- " out any mention of my name. This is a matter which it is im- •* possible for me to clear up." Have you a copy of the original entry made in the Rough Minute- Book relative to the printing of these catalogues? — A. Yes. It is as follows : — " Produced— A specimen of the Catalogue of the Miscellaneous Re- cords in the Office of the King's Remembrancer, now in the custody of the Board 5 also a Letter from Mr. Cole to the King's Remembrancer, dated the 3d of July 1835, as follows:— [Here set out the Letter G.] '• Ordered— That the foregoing Catalogue be put to press. '• Produced — A specimen of the Catalogue of the Augmentation Office Records} also a Letter from Mr. Cole to the Secretary, dated the 16th of July 1 835, as follows :— [Here the Letter is to be set out, H.] ' " Ordered— That the said Catalogue of Records in the Augmentation Office go to press." 720. Q. Did you ever read this entry to Mr. Cole?— A, I have not the slightest remembrance of having done so 5 and I *€ (C €( ti f( (S 150 Evidence of Mr, Cole, Evidence of Mr. Cole, 151 cannot conceive that any occasion could have arisen, that could make it requisite to read such entry to Mr. Cole. But most un- doubtedly, if, as Mr. Cole asserts, I ever read to him any order of the Board relative to the printing of these Calendars, it must have been this entry that I read. 721. Q. Have you any recollection of the injunction from the Board of which Mr. Cole speaks, and which he says Mr. Pro- theroe perfectly well recollects, not to omit certain matters which had been printed in Dugdale's Monasticonl — A. No: I have not. I am quite at a loss to know what it is that Mr. Cole alludes to. 722. Q. Did you ever send Mr. Cole a copy of the entry in the Minute-Book just read by you? — A. Yes. After his dis- missal he applied for a copy, ancf I sent it. 723. Q. When was this?— A. The 11th of December last. 724. Q. A good deal has been said, in the course of this in- quiry, as to what was the kind of superintendence exercised by you over Mr. Cole's operations. You have described it rather as a superintendence with respect to expenditure than any thing else. The workmen's wages were paid by you weekly; all the binder's bills were paid by you, &c. But you nevertheless say, that on all doubtful points Mr. Cole Vvas bound lo consult you ? — A. Yes. 725. Q. Now Mr. Cole has alleged that, from January 1833, until December 1835, he was ** engaged as a principal, without " any superintendence, and without any direction from any person " whatever;" that you never interfered with him otherwise than by paying him, as Secretary to the Board; and again, that you never interfered, by suggestion or otherwise, except when he (Mr. Cole) wanted materials for the conduct of his work, and then he had re- course to you to know to whom he ought to apply for such ma- terials. (Questions 4420-3.) Are these allegations correct? — A. g hey are not. , ' " • Q. Could you not state numerous instances in which you ave given directions, and in which you have interfered '* by sug- gestion or otherwise," independently of any inquiry from Mr. ^ole for materials? — A. Most undoubtedly I could. Such in- stances were of weekly occurrence. 727. Q. W hen was it that you ceased to carry on operations in Bos well Court? — A. The operations were not resumed there after the summer of 1833. 728. Q. When Mr. Cole ceased to work under your own eye, did you not instruct him to make weekly Reports to you? — A. 1 did, both verbally and in writing. On the fith of June 1833, I wrote to Mr. Cole a letter, saying, " You must be so good as to let me have your weekly Reports of your proceedings at the King's Mews, It is true that I rely much upon Mr. Protheroe's over- looking the operations there; but still, as several of the other Commissioners occasionally apply to me for information, I wish to be au courant. Let me, therefore, have the Report for the last week, and also any other which you have not yet furnished me. Be so good, too, as to acquaint me with any changes made in the localities where the subordinate clerks, binders, cleaners, &c. are employed ; as my sanction is of course requisite to every thing of that sort which takes place. I need not say that I have the greatest reliance upon your integrity and zeal." 729. Q. Were these weekly Reports made? — A. Yes. At first the Reports were sent to me every week; afterward they were sent every month, but the proceedings of each week were distinguished. Mr. Cole discontinued them for a short period after the Fire, but as soon as the confusion caused by that event had a little subsided, I ordered him to resume them. All those Re- ports are in my possession. 730. Q. You are in possession of most of the letters which Mr. Cole wrote to you during the period he was in the employ of the Board? — A. Yes: and there is hardly one that does not prove, that whenever there was any doubtful point he consulted and received directions from me. My interference was more general and frequent than I had any notion, until I looked over the correspondence. 731. Q. In answer to the same Question (4951), Mr. Cole says, '' I wish to add, when I was asked by the Committee for •* illustrations of Mr. Cooper's unofficial conduct, it would have " sufficed had I referred to the examples that were before the '* Committee, of his endeavouring to obtain transcripts subrosd: " also to the transmission of certain private documents of the *' Board to the British Museum in a fictitious name, accom- " panied by the following letter, which I now beg to produce, as ** showing how far Mr. Cooper did not scruple to go out of a " straight-forward course to effect his object. The letter is in '* the British Museum, in a volume entitled Frivatdy Printed ** Tracts on the Record Commission. Cooper on Registration, Sfc. " Ross, 10th June, 1833. " The Tracts in the volume that I now beg to present to the British Museum, were given to my late uncle by a gentleman in one o( the record-offices in London. He informed me that tbey were very rare, only fifty copies being printed of each ; which induces me, as 1 am leaving England for some time, to take the opportunity of a friend going to town to send the volume containing them, to be placed in the fine library confided to your superintendence. " I am, Sir, yours, &c. To the Librarian of the British Museum, '' Cuarles Hughes. " London." ft €t f< (i (( 1^2 Evidence of Mr, Cole. Evidence of Mr. Cok. 153 " This letter is in the handwriting of Mr. Cooper's own clerk. " 1 ma^ be in error, but I certainly consider sending a criminatory ** pamphlet (concerning the Parliamentary Writs), containing " most libellous terms against a colleague, in a fictitious name, by " a fictitious letter of a fictitious person, not to be a straight- " forward proceeding.'* Do you wish to give any explanation respecting the matters brought against you in this part of Mr. Cole's Evidence? — A. Yes, I do. 732. Q. To what does Mr. Cole refer, when he speaks of your endeavouring to obtain transcripts sm6 ;osa ? — A. He must refer to the transcripts of the Foreign Letters at the Tower, which were made by himself. 733. Q. You were interrogated as to the circumstances under which these transcripts were made^ on the fourth day of your exa- mination? — A. Yes; and on other occasions.* * The followiDg are all the Questions and Answers that relate to the making of these transcripts : — ** 1131. Have you had any difficulty in making transcripts in the Tower? — None *' whatever, that I recollect at this moment. *' 1132. Were transcripts of the Foreign Letters made? — Yes, of some of them, I " think, by Mr. Cole. The early Chancery Petitions have also been transcribed, in ** order to perpetuate them. *' 1133. Had you occasion to write to Mr. Hardy upon the subject? — I do not re- " collect. " 1134. Do you recollect using the phrase to Mr. Hardy, that you wished him to "get transcripts made sub rosd by Mr. Cole? — Very possibly I might; I have for- •' gotten the circumstance. " 1135. What was the cause of such an apparent irregularity? — Possibly an appre- " hension, an unfounded apprehension, as I believe, that obstacles might be thrown in " the way by the Keeper. ** 1136. Had you met with such obstacles from the Keeper? — The only impediment ** I remember to have experienced at the Tower, has been the delay produced by Mr. *' Petrie on all occasions requiring a copy of the order of the Board. If I used to Mr. " Hardy the expression just now mentioned (and I possibly did), it must have been ** that I was desirous of avoiding the inconvenience and loss of time that must have " ensued, had I been compelled to summon the Board merely to obtain an order to " be exhibited to Mr. Petrie, that Mr. Cole might copy some of the Foreign Letters. "1137. But as one of the duties of the Commission enjoined in the Royal Cora- " mission was the making transcripts, do you think that it was right for the Commission, " in such cases as this, to be obliged to have recourse to an underhand proceeding ** like this?— Such a course doubtless would be very objectionable ; but, in the in- " stance supposed, it is fair to Mr. Petrie to remark that it was not necessary ; as he ** would, I am sure, upon receiving the Order of the Board, which he can hardly be *' censured for requiring, have allowed Rlr. Cole to copy the Foreign Letters. 'J he •' irregularity, if committed at all, was committed in order to prevent trouble aad delay. " The consciousness of the inability of the Commissioners to enforce their orders, it " must be admitted, is likely, in some cases, to lead to attempts to attain the objects of the Board by a road which may not always be the most direct, and which, under other circumstances, would not be chosen." *' 1853. Where a transcript of records is desired, do you in all cases obtain the order of the Board ? — It has not been usual to obtain the order of the Board for making transcripts. Under the old Commission it was not customary. A rule ren- dering such an order necessary would not only be inconvenient, but prejudicial. " 1854. But, in.the Agenda, notices appear of orders of the Boards for obtaining «( « «( f( (I 4< 7:]4. Q. VVho suggested to you that Mr. Cole should be put upon the transcription of these Foreign Letters ?--A. Mr. Hardy. 73.^ Q. Mr. Hardy was at that time a principal Clerk upon the Tower establishment ? — A. He was. 736. Q. It is to him, it is said, that you expressed a wish to get these transcripts made sub rosd ? — A. Yes. 737. Q. Mr. Cole and Mr. Hardy were, at the time of which we are speaking, upon very intimate terms ? — A. They were. 738. Q. Had they not both assisted in furnishing you with that information which ultimately produced the discontinuance of the work called the Parliamentari/ Writs? — A. Yes. 739. Q. Was it not the discontinuance of the Parliamentari/ WritSy which, by liberating a portion of the funds at the disposal of the Commissioners, gave them the means of instituting those works upon which Mr. Hardy and Mr. Cole were engaged during the years 1833, 1834 and 1835?— A. It was. 740. Q. Was it Mr. Cole to whom the task of transcnbmg the Foreign Letters was originally assigned? — A. No. At Mr. Hardy's recommendation, Mr. Roberts, a fellow Clerk of his in the Tower, was first authorized to transcribe those letters. 741. Q. Had not Mr. Hardy represented to you that the State Letters in the Tower were very curiou s?— A. Yes, he had: and transcripts ?-Generally speaking, where the expense of making the transcript would be great, or where transcripts were to be made at the Record Office at the Tower, an order has been obtained ; bat, according to Mr. Caley's usage such order was not requisite. It has seldom preceded the making of the ti-anscnpt. By the bye, on look- ing over the Minute-Books, on Saturday evening,! found that the Board, in December 1832, directed the Foreign Letters at the Tower to be copied. Ihese are the docu- ments which it was the other day suggested I had expressed a wish might be tran- scribed sub ro&d. The Committee must see that it is hardly fair, after a lapse of three vears. I should be called upon to answer such questions without having an oppor- tunitv of referring to the proceedings of the Board and the official correspondence. If the order did not precede the transcription, it must have immediately followed it. " 1855. Then the only ground was the difference of expense ?-In general I have procured the Order of the Board, where much expense was to be. or had been, in- curred. It has been my method, although it was not that of Mr. Caley s ; notwith- standincr in his time transcription cost often four times, and three times, and always twice as much as it has cost since. It is impossible, however, ^hf rec^J^^^^^^ always be had to the Board. You might as well propose consult the Commis- sioners respecting each letter received and written. The documents fit for a new edition of kymer's Voedera are scattered in every part of the empire, and of Europe. Is the Board to be summoned each time that documents fit for transcription are dis- •°T936.''t have it in the Return from Mr. Petrie, that the order for transcription [of the Close Rolls] was dated [the] 2d of May 1832. It is stated in the Return of the Kin-'s Printer, that it was put in type the 2d of Februaiy 1832, and printed off the 22d of March ?-It has never been customary to forward to keepers of record offices FolSers for copying documents in their custody. Such ord- ^^^^^^^^ been made, or sent, as far as 1 recollect, except in the case of ^^X.^^f^X Tower transcription to be undertaken at the Tower. Mr. Hardy was a c erk at the Tower and I suppose it was at his desire that 1 wrote to Mr. Petrie. If I did not wnte before the time stated, it was because it had not been previously suggested to me that it was requisite.*' «( tt (( (( «( «< I want to lend it to Mr. Gage, who was vastly p eased with what he had seen of a small part of the papers. He said he would show it to no one 5 but 1 told him that I could not conceive why it could not be shown, as it did us honor." 828. Q. Is not this volume particularly described in a Return made to the House of Commons in the year 1833, upon a motion of Mr. Charles Buller?— A. Yes. The ensuing is the de- scription: — *' Proceedings of his Majesty's Commissioners on the Public Records of theKingdom, June 1832-August 1833. (I vol. folio. Printed, but not for sale.) This volume contains numerous extracts trom the early Wardrobe Accounts, the Memoranda Rolls, the Placita Curiae Regis, the ' early Fines, &:c. ; and copies of numerous short antienti-ccords and documents. It will be found in the library of the House of Commons. The very copy, alluded to in this Return, is that which has been so frequently on the table of the Committee. 16B Farther Evidence of Mr, Prot/ieroe. Farther Evidence of Mr, Protheroe. 169 I 829. Q. Was not the printing of tlie Agenda discontinued soon after the month of May 1833 ? — A. Yes: the Agenda were not printed after August in that year. 830. Q. In what way did Mr. Protheroe commend these Selec- tions from the Miscellaneous Exchequer Records? — A. I do not know that I possess any commendation in writing. Mr. Protheroe, Sir Harris Nicolas, and other gentlemen, however, were favour- able to such a compilation. It was, at one time, almost arranged that Sir Harris Nicolas should be the Editor. When the volume was finished, Mr. Protheroe was urgent for its publication. Our correspondence, however, as far as I can discover upon such cur- sory examination as I have been able to make, contains little upon the point. I find, nevertheless, a note from Mr. Protheroe dated the 3rd of October 183^2, suggesting that a publication of miscel- laneous matter might be useful and cheaply edited, and combating the arguments that were likely to be brought forward against such a work. I also find some letters of his, written toward the beginning of last year, inquiring when the volume, which he sup- posed was perfect, would be laid on the table of the Board. In one of those letters, dated in May 1835, he says, — *' I forgot to ask you on Saturday, when that small folio of Mr. Cole's is to be delivered to the Commissioners j pray inform me. I have long observed it finished and bound on bis table, when I have been at the Augmentation Office ; and previously I had seen him working on the separate sheets." 831. Q. Did you make any reply to this last letter? — A. Yes, I wrote to Mr. Protheroe on the '26th of May, saying, — " The volume to which you allude was intended as the Appendix to the new series of Agenda, as, if I recollect right, the signatures will show. But, as only two or three sheets of my portion of the work were put into type, before the Agenda were discontinued, I propose to make this volunie the appendix to our Acta ; and, so soon as I have leisure for such an employment, I shall bring the matter before the Board ; but this will not be for some time to come. Mr. Cole has had a title-page and preface set up, but I do not undertake to use either." 83(2. Q. Did Mr. Protheroe make any reply to this letter? — A. I believe not. 833. Q. Did he not object to this suggestion of Acta? — A. Not that I recollect. 834. Q. You are aware of Mr. Protheroe's Evidence upon the point?* — A. I am: until I read it, I had always supposed that the publication of a volume of Acta was a project originating with him. I had begun to compile such a volume early in the year 1834, and certainly flattered myself that, had it been completed, I should for once have been so fortunate as to obtain his approbation. It seems, however, that in this matter, as in most others, I have most strangely misinterpreted his wishes. 835. Q. You have said that, until you read Mr. Protheroe's evidence, you had always thought that the project of publishing a volume of ^c^a was Mr. Protheroe's ? — A. Such had been my erroneous impression. 836. Q. Had you any correspondence with Mr. Protheroe on this subject ? — A. I believe not. All that occurs in such part of the correspondence of Mr. Protheroe and myself, as I have had leisure to look through, is in a letter of his dated the 3rd of May 1833. He there says, *' I have read most of these attentively over, and I am going to examine the part relative to the fees. It strikes me more forcibly than it did before, that to the yJgeuda of each Board, should be given the Acta of the last, like the Votes of the House of Commons, only very briefly," &c. 837. Q. You said that it was at one time nearly arranged that Sir H. Nicolas should edit a Selection from the Miscellaneous Records of the Exchequer? — A. Yes. In January 1833 I wrote to Sir H. Nicolas, suggesting that he should edit such a volume, and that the transcripts should be made by Mr. Baker, his clerk. In reply. Sir H. Nicolas wrote me a note, in which he says, — '* I thank you for your last note. The papers in the King's Mews are, I believe, very curious, and I shall be glad to look at those of which you spoke to Mr. Baker ; but, hearing that you are now at Westminster all day, I wait for you to name an appointment for my calling in Boswell Court. Provided that my editing the work you suggest neither postpones nor interferes with the Privj/ Council Booh (for the publication of which I am pledged to the public), I should not object to bring out one or more volumes of Miscellaneous Historical Documents." It was subsequently agreed that Mr. Cole should transcribe. I rather think it was Mr. Robert Thompson who first suggested this work. On the 1st of February 1833, I gave Sir H. Nicolas a letter of introduction to Mr. Thompson ; and on the 3d of that month Sir H. Nicolas wrote to thank me for that letter. ** Many • In answer ♦.o Question 1657, Mr. Protheroe says, speaking of this Appendix of Selections, " I have always understood that Mr. Cooper's intention was to formsorais- " thing like a volume of Proceedings or the Acta of our Board, to which this was to be " appended ; but 1 have most strenuously opposed it, because I do not believe, if our " Acta were collected together, that one page would be too small to contain them. If " we have discharged our duty, our Acta would better appear in the good arrangement of '* the Record Ollices, and the volumes published by the Commission." Again, in answer to Question 2017, he says, " 1 have already stated in ray evidence, I protested most " strongly against the plan of publishing any Acta, or anything in the shape of an Ap- *• pendix to our Agenda, thinking the plan manifestly very absurd." I 170 Farther Evidence of Mr. Protheroe, Farther Evidence of Mr. Protheroe, 171 thanks," he says, " for your letter to Mr. Thompson, on whom I will call one day this week, whenever you may have the result of another * haul.' I will go regularly to Boswell Court, and set Mr. Cole to work." By the *' haul'* allusion is made to the records fished up at the King's Mews, and put into a sack to be transported to Boswell Court.* ♦ It will probably be found convenient that the substance of my Evidence respecting the Agenda, and the Appendix of Selections from the Miscellaneous Records of the Exchequer, as corrected by me, and as originally printed, should be inserted in this place. It is as follows :— That, to the volume of Selections, then on the table of the Committee, a title had been prefixed, as if it were a separate volume, whereas it is a mere Appendix to the Proceedings of the Board, and was commenced before the print- ing of those Proceedings was discontinued, and probably would not have been com- pleted so soon, had there not been an unwillingness, by the suspension of it, to deprive Mr. Cole of the opportunity of earning, by passing the sheets through the press out of office-hours, something more than his salary of 150/. a year ;— that the Chairman was raauifestly diverting himself, in suggesting that one of the Commissioners' motives for undertaking a work, was to give a salary to the person who edited a part of it ;— that undoubtedly, in the work called the Agenda, it appears the primary object was to fur- nish notes of business for the Commissioners ;— that, subsequently, the Secretary put in it a variety of comnmnications (such as letters in Latin) from learned persons and municipal authorities abroad ;— that other portions of the work, which seemed to the Chairman still more inexplicable, were mostly specimens of records which it was in contemplation to transcribe and print, as the anlient Fines, the Rolls of the Curia Regis, Memoranda of the Exchequer, the Wardrobe Books, &c. ;— that the two first records have been since put in a course of publication ;— that the volume in question (the Agenda), however, contains other matters of a miscellaneous character; regis- ters, too. most of the proceedings of the Board during the period comprised in it ; and may, perhaps, be compared with the transactions or journals published by some of our learned bodies, for instance, the Journals of the Royal Asiatic Society ;— that the Secretary, perhaps, might have found a better illustration than the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society ; which, however, is not limited, as the Chairman suggested, to essays, although they form the greater part of that publication ;— that it is a pity that the volume did not engage attention before, for it is thus described in the Return made in pursu- ance of the Chairman's motion of August 1833 :— " Proceedings of His Majesty's Com- *♦ missioners on the Public Records of the Kingdom, June 1832— August 1833, " (one vol. folio, printed, but not for sale.) This volume contains numerous extracts •• from the early Wardrobe Accounts, the Memoranda Rolls, the Placita Curiae Regis, *' the early Fines, &c., and copies of numerous short antient records and documents. «• It will be found in the library of the House of Commons ;"— that the Secretary holds the printing of specimens of records, before the commencement of any volume, indispen- sable ; and thinks it desirable, too, that such specimens should be preserved as they are now, by insertion in such a volume as the one under consideration ;— that, had the Old Board adopted the scheme of a volume of Agenda or Acta, it is probable we should not have to regret, as at present, the loss of all the valuable specimens set up under its authority during a space of thirty years ;— that it was Mr. W illiams Wynn who suggested that it would be more convenient to throw the specimens, &c. into an Appendix, instead of mixing them up with the Notes of Business, and the suggestion met with the approba- tion of the Board ;— that it was wrong to suppose that the work was one in which the historical inquirer is not likely to look for materials, the copy in the British Museum being in constant requisition ;— that it was not admitted that the extracts from records are longer than was necessary for the exhibition of satisfactory specimens ; — that it was believed all the extracts are specimens, but that there are some documents in the volume of a diflerent character ;— -that the Secretary had very little doubt that the composition of the short preface to the Appendix of Selections was mentioned to him, and his permis- sion to set up at press obtained; — that it seemed to him quite immaterial whether Mr. 838. Q. Have you not stated, in the course of your examina- tion, that the cost of cleansing, sorting, arranging, repairing and binding the records, since March 1831, exceeds the sum of 10,(XX)/.? — A. I have so stated. 839. Q. Have you not informed Mr. Protheroe that you con- Cole did or not send such preface to press on his own responsibility ; — that the putting of this preface into type may rest, either on the Secretary's responsibility, or upon Mr. Cole's; and Mr. Cole may take the alternative best suited to his own views; — that the Secretaiy never authorized the framing of a title-page for the volume, as if it were an in- dependent work ;— that, supposing it were proposed to prefix that title-page to the sheets on the table of the Committee as an Appendix to a volume of the Proceedings of the Board, the title-page might then, perhaps, be unobjectionable, but in that case the sig- nature to the sheet (vol. i. ai-p.) ought not to be omitted, as at present; — that such preface has not been cancelled, but that it has been put into type, and not worked oflf; — that the title-page appears to the Secretary, in its present state, not adapted to the sheets to which it is prefixed ; and that the Secretary could not have approved of such a title- page to a mere appendix to a volume of the Proceedings of the Board ; — that there ought to be a short preface and a table of contents ; but that such title-page, preface, and table of contents, ought not to have the appearance of belonging to an independent work, when they are designed only for an Appendix ;— that, though the Secretary, in the last Return to the House of Commons, had described it as ** Selections from the Mis- cellaneous Records of the Office of the King's Remembrancer of the Exchequer," yet in the same Return it is added, " These Selections are intended to form an Appendix to the next volume of the Proceedings of the Board ;"--that, undoubtedly, the Secretary knew of no disposition, in any quarter, todeprive Mr. Cole of such credit as might be due to him, in respect of his services under the Record Board ; but that Mr. Cole's knowledge and talents were not such as to entitle him to the highest rate of remuneration ; — that a person competent to transcribe and collate a record, and to pass it through the press, is not always capable of editing an independent work ; — that Mr. Cole consulted the Secretary as to what he should print, who examined every sheet before it was worked oflp;— that if the Com- mittee would take the trouble to look at what the printers call the signatures to the diflerent sheets, it would be found that they purport to be portions of an Appendix ;— that, had the delay in the publication of the volume of the Proceedings of the Board, to which these sheets purport to be an appendix, been foreseen, it might have been de- sirable that the signature" App." should have been omitted ; — that the volume contains some curious matter, but the Chairman was mistaken in stating that it must appear without a title-page, and without the name of the Editor ;— that, whenever it is published, it will have a fit title-page, probably that prepared by Mr. Cole, and the Secretaiy will undertake that his editorial labours "in respect to it shall not be concealed ;— that the Par- liament Roll in it was not printed as a specimen, but comes under the denomination of " Copies of numerous short antient records and documents," the words in which the con- tents of the Agenda are described in the Return made to the House of Commons in De- cember 1833 ;— that the specimens were necessarily seen by all the Commissioners who perused the Agenda, and in the form in which they now appear ;— that it will be found that it was only after examination of such specimens that certain publications were ordered ; for instance, the early Fines and the Rolls of the Curia Regis ;— that, if a Commissioner states that he knows nothing of the book at all, and, except by accident, was not aware of its existence, then such Commissioner must allude to some other vo- lume, and the Secretary, perhaps, must have misunderstood the Chairman's two or three last questions ;— that, speaking with reference to some specimens which have from time to time been produced, and which are not printed in the Proceedings of the Board, the same were laid before all the Commissioners who attended the Board ;-~and that there has been no work undertaken which might not, in its progress, have been inspected by ail the Commissioners ; nor any completed which has not, in its different stages, been examined by such Commissioners as took the greatest interest in it. 172 Farther Evidence of Mr. Protheroe, f ! 1 sidered this one of the most useful and important operations carried on under the authority of the Commission?— A. Yes: I have often so informed him. 840. Q. Was not the work of cleansing, sorting, and repairing the miscellaneous records of the Exchequer commenced in the spring of 1832?— A. Yes. 841. Q. Was it commenced at the recommendation of Mr. Protheroe? — A. No. 842. Q. Did Mr. Protheroe ever mention these records to you? — A. No. I do not know that he was ever aware of their existence, until he saw the workmen engaged upon portions of them, in the house at Boswell Court. 843. These records are exceedingly numerous?— A. Yes. When they were taken out of the bins formed in the recesses of the windows of the Mews, I had them put into sacks. They lilled above 600 very large sacks. 844. Q. Has not the work of arranging and repairing these records been proceeding ever since the year 2832? — A. Yes; and it is not yet completed. 845. Q. Did not Mr. Robert Thompson, in the year 1832, address to you a Letter on the subject of the miscellaneous re- cords of the King's Remembrancer's Office? — A. He did. 846. Q. Haveyouacopyof it?— A. Yes. [Seethe Supple- ment.] 847. Q. Did not Mr. Vanderzee, early in the year 1833, make a long Report respecting tiiese records and the measures taken for improving the state thereof? — A. Y'es; I produce a copy of it. [See the Supplement.] 848. Q. Were Mr. Thompson's Letter and Mr. Vanderzee's Report laid before the Commissioners f— A. Yes ; and printed for their use in the Notes of Business. 849. Q. Do you think that the operation might have proceeded with greater rapidity? — A. Not unless large rooms, like those in some manufactories, had been hired for conducting on a very large scale, and means had been immediately taken to instruct a greater number of workmen in the business. 850. Q. Do you consider that the work of repairing the re- cords could be safely entrusted to common bookbinders' men? — A. No. I think the persons engaged in this kind of work should undergo a sort of apprenticeship. All the workmen have, I be- lieve, been taught by Mr. Charles Gay, who has been employed in repairing the records for a great number of years. 851. Q. How many workmen are now occupied upon these records ? — A. Thirteen altogether. Farther Evidence of Mr, Protheroe. 173 852. Q. Could a greater number be conveniently employed on the spot where the work is going on? — A. No. 853. Q. Has it not been deemed expedient to induce the workmen to work during extra hours, rather than to take on addi- tional hands? — Yes. In 1834, upon Mr. Cole's recommenda- tion, such workmen as desired it were employed, at the actual rate of payment, three hours a day more than the usual time. This continued, I believe, until last autumn. 854. Mr. Protheroe, in reference to the obstacles which appear to have been sometimes thrown in the way of the operations car- rying on by the Commissioners in some of the offices, condemns what is assumed to have been the mode adopted by you for the removal thereof. He says you should at once have gone to the Board and described the obstacles ; that you ought not to have overcome them, nor attempted to overcome them, by any indirect means. Was this Mr. Protheroe's own mode of proceeding ? — Q. I do not know. Were I disposed to pleasantry, which 1 cer- tainly am not, I should say I am aware of numerous obstacles which his laudable zeal has raised, but I recollect none which he has removed by any means, either direct or indirect. 855. Q. You recollect no obstacle removed by Mr. Protheroe ? — A. None. I recollect one attempt. 856. Q. What was that ? Did he go to the Board and de- scribe it.'* — A. No; certainly not. Mr. Palmer, of the Rolls* Chapel, according to Mr. Protheroe's representation, ** raised some obstacle to the work of repairing the Inquisitions that was proceeding at the Rolls' Chapel." 857. Q. What did Mr. Protheroe do in consequence ? — A. He desired me to remove the workman. 858. Q. When was this ?— A. Li May 1833. I have several letters of Mr. Protheroe on the subject. In one of them, dated the 4th of that month, he says, — '* I am persuaded those uncivil fellows at the Rolls will be more an- noyed by a cessation of the work of Gay on the Inquisitions, than by any other act we can perform, and that they will then attend to our wishes of having new rooms for the work. 1 therefore am decidedly of opinion that you will do well to transfer instanter Gay from the Rolls to the Lancaster Office, where he could very advantageously assist Peter Paul, and finish that work j it is precisely the same. I strike this blow on Monday. I know the state of the Inquisitions : they can be very well suspended." 859. Q. Did you ever experience any incivility at the Rolls' Chapel ? — Never. II ( 174 ) MISCELLANEOUS EVIDENCE. 860. Q. Was not Mr. Palmer of the Rolls' Chapel, in the month of June, directed, for a month, to cleanse and arrange some of the bundles of Privy Seals and Signed Bills in that repository ? j^^ Yes. 861. Q. Was not Mr. Palmer subsequently, in the month of November 1832, directed to continue this work?— A. Yes. 862. Q. Is there any entry in the Agenda as to the cleansmg, sorting, &c. of these bundles.— -A. Yes. It is as follows :— " Rolls Chapel— Privy Seal and Signed Bill Bundles.— The grants &c., contained in these bundles, are generally speaking inrolled upon the Patent and other Rolls, and are readily found by means of the othce Indexes ; and, to use the words of an intelligent officer, ' when any have been inquired after, and not so found, it has been concluded that the parties have brought wrong names or dates, or that such grants never had existence ; and a search among the bundles for the Privy Seal or Signed Bill is rarely recommended, on account of the great trouble and length of time required to make it, and the improbability of a satisfac- tory result, arising from the Bills of a particular year being frequently found dispersed through the bundles of several years.' As, however, from neglect, or some other cause, many grants never were inrolled, searches amongst these bundles have occasionally been attended with success J and it was amongst them that the Patent creating the Earldom of Huntingdon, temp. Hen. VIIL, the Charter to the Artillery Com- pany, granted in the same reign, and the commission to Sebastian Cabot (formerly mentioned), were discovered, after the other records had been explored in vain. Upon this representation the Board, in June last, directed that Mr. Palmer should proceed to clean and arrange the bun- dles of Privy Seal Bills, Signed Bills, &c., and should in the course of that operation make an Index of them ; and after he had proceeded upon the work for a month, he was to communicate the result to the Secretary. Mr. Palmer has, in the course of the last vacation, sorted the Signed Bills and Privy Seal Bills of the reign of Henry VII., and has begun to compare them with the office Indexes, in order to discover which have been inrolled and which which have not. He has stated to the Secretary that the experiment has shown the expediency oF the order of the Board. It is submitted that Mr. Palmer should be instructed to prosecute his task in the ensuing vacation." {Proceedings, pp. 25, 26.) 863. Q. Was not Mr. Charles Panton, in the early part of the year 1833, directed by you to remove the miscellaneous unsorted records belonging to the late Pipe Office? — Yes. 864. Q. Were not such records for the most part of no value ? — A. Yes. 865. Q. Were they not deposited in the lightest and aniest compartment of the vaults at Somerset House ?— They were. Miscellaneous Evidence. 175 866. Q. Did you not instruct Mr. Panton to concentrate in that compartment certain valuable records, which until then had been in the darkest and worst ventilated part of the building ? — A. 1 did. 867. Q. Did you not also require Mr. Panton to take an ac- count of such miscellaneous and unsorted records, and make a short report upon the subject ? — Yes. 868. Q. What is the date of the last communication received by you from Mr. Charles Panton, relative to the arrangement of the records in the late Pipe Office? — A. The 6th of December 1833. 869. Q. Was that a report? — A. No; it was a common letter. 870. Q. What did Mr. Panton say in that letter ?-— " I have completed the arrangement of the Anglia Accounts (in the record rooms) from 1650 to 1789, comprising many thousand accounts ; and the Great Rolls to the present time are carefully arranged and preserved." 871. Q. In the course of your present examination, mention has been made of the Calendars to the Chancery Proceedings in the Tower of London ? — A. Yes. 872. Q. Mr. Hardy, it appears, has represented that there are sufficient calendars to those bulky records ? — A. Yes ; he has so asserted in his Evidence. He has repeatedly told me the con- trary. But the point is beyond controversy. The Committee needs only to refer to the Reports and Returns made by Mr. Petrie to the Commissioners. 873. Q. Did Mr. Hardy ever furnish you with any informa- tion upon this subject? — A. Yes. But I am not sure that such information contained much that I had not already collected from other sources. There is a long entry in the Agenda, upon the want of calendars to the Chancery Proceedings. 874. Q. Was Mr. Hardy acquainted with such entry ^ — A. Undoubtedly so. He received a considerable sum for making the Index to the Agenda. 875. Q. Did he ever point out to you any inaccuracy in that entry ? — A. No. The state of the Chancery Calendars was well known to me, from a long and painful examination into Mr. Bayley's work, the Chancery Calendars for the reign of Queen Elizabeth, in which examination I was principally aided by Mr. Hardy. 876. Q. Read the entry in the Agenda respecting the want of calendars to the Chancery Proceedings ? — A. It is at p. 28 : — " Tower of London, — Calendars to the Proceedings in Chanceri/. — In 1809, two supernumeraiy clerks, Messrs. Hoole and Cossart, were M ,^g Miscellaneous Evidence. added to the record establishment at the Tower, principally for the pur- no^ of forming calendars to these useful records : and Mr. Cossart wa. employed in this work till the time of his death, some few years back and Mr. Hoole until 1829, when the supernumerary clerks were suppressed by an order from the Treasury ; it bemg probably con- Ildered Ihat the appointment of persons for the mere temporary pur- pose of making a "catalogue, was a power that nught be more advan- Llously entrusted to the Record Board. The catalogue ot the Chan- cefv Proceedings temp. Elizabeth having been pnnted, the existence of a catalogue for that reign is of course well known, and may have m- duced the Commissioners to think that manuscript catalogues have been framed for the succeeding reigns. This, however, is not the case: a norUon only of the catalogue for the reign ot James I. had been com - Dieted when Mr. Hoole left the Tower ; and the immense series of bun- dies of Chancery Proceedings for the whole subsequent period, extending to the year 1745, are uncalendared and indeed unindexed ; for there exists no other index but a meagre Index Nominum, containing only the names of one plaintiff and one defendant; and consequently no search can be made in any case where the applicant is unable to point out the particular suit that he wants. As there seems no reason to sup- pose that the present clerks at the Tower have not ample occupation during office-hours, it cannot be expected that the labours, which have been thus interrupted, will be resumed without extraoidinary aid afforded for that purpose ; and it is therefore submitted to the Board, that i wou d be a useful application of the funds at their disposal, were a small yearly sum appropriated to the continuance of the above-mentioned calendars ; or, at all events, some directions should be given tor completing the calen- dar for the reign of James. The calendar is alphabetical, and has pro- ceeded to the letter H." 877. Q. Previously to the appointment of the Rev Joseph Hunter as a Sub-Commissioner, was he not known to Mr. Fro- theroe? — A. Yes. . . r A/f lt * 878 Q. Did not Mr. Protheroe obtam from Mr. Hunter some 'papers, containing his opinion upon different works and proceedings of the former Boards? — A. Yes. 879. Q. ^^ere not such papers communicated to the present Commissioners.^— A. Yes; and printed for their use. 880. Q. Had not Mr. Protheroe intimated to Mr. Hunter that, in his own iudgement, publication should be postponed to arrange- ment of records?-A. Yes; and Mr. Hunter combated his notions. 881. Q. Read what Mr. Hunter says upon this subject f—A. Proceedings, page 359 : — *' One thing rather surprizes me, and you will excuse me if I ask why place arrangement before publication ? arrangement, of course, in respect of documents which exist in separate parcels, must precede pub i- cation : but I speak rather of a preference of expending the funus ot the Miscellaneous Evidence. 177 Commission on th.e arrangement of records, than on the publication of them. I confess, I consider what the old Commission did in publication as by far the most important part of their labours. Some of their books are bad j others are little better than useless reprints ; but from the point from which the Antiquaries of England look at their labours, those would, I think, appear the most valuable, which place the matter of these records in the hands of any person who is disposed to use them j in other words, which increase the stock of printed historical documents. What the historical inquirers of England want, is, the raw material j they will work it up, and some of them will produce a useful and valuable fabric. Previous to the publication of these volumes, there was very little of the raw material to be had in a printed form. These volumes add some- thing : would that they had added more ! and I cannot for my own part but think, that the funds which Government can allow would be most usefully expended in— first, publication ; second, arrangement. " Certain at least it is, that our topography puts on a better appear- ance, since the publication of the Testa, the Hundred Rolls, the Taxatio, the Valor, and others. Previously, the Antiquary must have transcribed from the original record, unless he were fortunate enough to meet with transcripts by some predecessor in the same walk. This must have occa- sioned a great consumption of valuable time; and in many cases it must have been impracticable. In my own case, for instance, I never could have done it j nor could or would Dr. Whitaker, or Mr. Surtees ; and I imagine Mr. Baker must find it vastly more convenient to have the printed books, than to transcribe himself from the original docu- ments the parts which relate to Northamptonshire. At the same time, I allow the importance of arranging and indexing the mixed records, which, it is presumed, are to be found in some of the great depositaries. The question only is about precedence, or rather, on which the small allow- ance made by Government is to be now expended. My great principle is to get as much historical matter as possible made public ;— the more valuable first : but what that is historical is not valuable ? Facts are not like opinions j and an experienced eye may discern an important bearing of a fact, which to a mind of another cast would appear of ab- solute insignificance. But I perfectly agree with you in scouting the re- printing tliat which is already printed. This is jobbing ; and no pretense of a splendid uniform national work can compensate for the great injury done to the interests of historical literature by expending money on the Foedera, which might have been spent on new and inedited matter. 1 am inclined to take the same view of the proposed republication of the Rolls of Parhament." 882. Q. In reference to the comparative advantages of tran- .scription and printing, you say, in the eleventh day's Evidence, that your " original notion was, that, in most mstances,transcrip- " tion might answer the same purpose us printing," but that you would, on another day, fully explain the reasons of the change which a more perfect knowledge of the subject has wrought lu N 178 Mhcellaneom Evidence, Miscellaneous Evidence. 179 :i it it your opinion upon this head; -that " transcription is more eco- « nomical than printing, and it doubles the chance of preserva- « tion; and if the copy be placed in the British Museum, although " that'institution is closed during the hours most usually devoted " to study, yet it is more accessible than in a record office; but still, when you remember how many historical, topographical, aenealotrical, and antiquarian writers and inquirers reside at a distance'^from the metropolis, you " cannot avoid perceiving that " one of the principal ends is not attained by a transcript; —that there are, however, cases in which transcription, from the small comparative cost, ought to be preferred :— that there is one re- mark which suggests itself to you in favour of printing; *' it is the " small beneiit which our literature has derived from the nu- " merous transcripts made, in the sixteenth and seventeenth cen- turies, by Sir Simonds D'Ewes, Dodsworth, and other antiqua- ries; and the immense advantages which it has drawn from such publications as Domesday Book, the Rolls of Parliament, " and the volumes of the old and new Record Boards." Still you ** agree with the observation of the Chairman of this Com- " mittee^ that, when the document is one to which persons but •* rarely have occasion to refer, transcription ought, from the " diminished expense, to be preferred." (Questions 283 1 -4.) Have you any document which you wish to deliver, in explanation of the change in your opinion mentioned in this part of your examina- tion?— A. Yes. It is a letter of my friend Mr. Hunter. At present 1 concur in every part of it. [See the Supplement.] 883. Q. The Chairman remarks (Question 283:^), " You ob- " ject to the British Museum that it is not open at night." You answer, "There ought to be, in some convenient part of the '* metropolis, a national library of printed books, to which the *' student may obtain access for fourteen hours every day. The " Library of the British Museum is closed, at the only times, and " during the only hours, that the majority of readers have any op- " portunity of visiting it." In consequence of reference having been elsewhere made to your opinion on this subject, are you not desirous of giving a fuller explanation of it? — A. Yes, 1 am. Evening access to the Library of the British Museum is to be considered in reference to two distinct classes of persons. First, Those who resort to the Museum, rather for general reading and amusement, or general information, than as engaged in any par- ticular branch of study, requiring the assistance of the manuscripts or of books of the class not generally inquired after. Such are, for the most part, persons who are engaged in business; though <( amongst such persons there may be some who do engage in occa- sional research, which may be aided by the manuscripts or books of a more recondite class. Secondly, Those who really desire to gain that information which cannot elsewhere be obtained. Such are, — persons from the country, whose stay in London is limited, and for whom the present number of hours (six) is much too small, — the whole class of persons who are engaged in public or private tuition, — many law and medical students, — educated and curious persons employed in the public offices, or dispersed among the commercial population of London. The claims of persons, belonging to the first of these classes, do not require such a magnificent assemblage of books and manuscripts as is in the Museum Library. An extensive library of books of a more ordinary cast would be sufficient; and it might be placed in a more convenient situation than Bloomsbury, that is, nearer to the City and the Borough, where, it is supposed, the majority of such persons reside. Such a public library, open to a late hour in the evening, would be a great public accommodation, no doubt, to a very great number of persons in London. Duplicates from the Museum might go to the formation of it. A Parliamentary grant might supply the rest, and form the means of maintaining the establishment necessary. It is to be observed, on the head of ex- pense, that the annual expense of the Museum would be much increased if the library is to be open in the evening, probably to the full extent of the annual expenses of a new establishment. Such a new foundation would not, however, meet the case of per- sons belonging to the second class. For them there is nothing but the Museum Library, and the whole Museum Library; be- cause there only can be found the objects of their researches, which are often manuscripts existing in but a single copy. The question, therefore, in respect of them, seems to resolve itself into this, — whether they are in sufficient numbers, and their exclusion from the advantages of the Museum upon the present system so complete, as to balance the inconvenience of having the Library opened by gas-light or candle-light, and the additional annual expense thereby brought upon the establishment. It is to be observed that there must be some limitation to the use of the books, and especially of the manuscripts, in the evening; and every such limitation is to be subtracted from the advantages which it is proposed to gain by the new arrangement. 884. Q. What is the amount of the sums of money granted by Parliament to the present Board for five years, from March 1831 to March 1836?— A. 48,500/. n2' ^i IQQ Miscellaneous Evidetice. 885 Q. And what was the amount of the money received by the former Board for five years, from March m.6 to March 1831''— A. 72.510/. 14s. lOc?. 886 Q. Have you any document which shows the works pro- duced by the two Commissions during these respective periods —A Yes I handed in such a docuuient on the oth ot July. 1 have' another copy here. It is a list of the works produced by the Old Commission during the five years from March 1826 to March 1831, and a list of the works produced by the Present Commission during the ^xe years between March 1831 and March iBJb. [See the Supplement.] 887. Q. In vour examination on the 29th of April, you state, with reference "to the distribution of the Record volumes to dit- ferent libraries at home and abroad, that the former Board had, down to the year 1822. distributed only 122 sets;— that in July 1825, the total number of sets distributed did not exceed 145; but previously to March 1831, l6 sets were added to the list; in which list were very few foreign deposits ;-that our colonies too had been entirely overlooked;— that the present disiribution amounts to 511 sets, of which 380 were given to public libra- ries in England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, 112 to public libraries on the continent of Europe and m the United btates ot America, and U) sets to our colonies ;— that the nation has thus, at all events, got something by the Commission, as well for itself as for its allies and colonies;— that you would give a more detailed account of this distribution of the publications on some future day ;— that, in the Return made to Parliament in 1833, it is stated that the value of the books then distributed was 35,000/., such value being measured by the selling price formerly fixed by the Board ; but the value of the books since distributed, estimated in the same manner, must be nearly double that sum ;— that the value, calculated only in the way which you had mentioned, will exceed that sum ;— that the value of the books now in store must be 12,000/. or 13,000/., and the value of the sets of books given to public libraries is not calculated upon their actual cost, but only upon the very moderate selling prices fixed by the Commissioners, but prices quite inadequate to reimburse the expenses of printing ;— that one work, of which only 500 copies were printed, and nearly all of which have been presented to public libraries, is alone said to have cost 60,000/. ; —that you omit, too, the deposits made in public libraries pre- viously to December 1833;— that, of course, if all the books had been disposed of by way of sale, they could not have produced half that sum at the prices fixed : because their value, according Miscellaneous Evidence. 181 such prices, is only a nominal value ; and their real value must be estimated at the actual cost, which is said to be between 200,000/. and 300,000/. ;— that the nominal value of the books distributed, according to the selling prices, is as you had men- tioned ; but the real value is the actual cost of the works; — that, according to the nominal value. 35,000/. worth had been dis- tributed in December 1833; but the exact nominal value of the distribution, since that period, you were not prepared to state ; and the value of the stock in hand had been already given; — that the Committee might, from these data, ascertain, as nearly as it probably desired, the proportions to which you al- luded, and which will be found to be as two to seven, or there- about: but that such a calculation will be useless, unless there be substituted, on the one side, the actual cost of the printed volumes for their nominal value, and deducted, on the other side, all the monies expended during more than thirty years, in calendaring and transcribing (without a view to printing), in sort- ing, cleansing, repairing and arranging the records, 8cc.; and that thfs will effect a striking alteration in the relative results of the computation. Now have you any Estimate of the value of the works recently distributed by the Board, such value being taken at the selling prices fixed by the Commissioners? — A. The Esti- mate that 1 have is one, prepared by the King's Printers, of the value of the works distributed between February 1834 and the end of April last. It gives a total value of 54.166/. Qs, ()d., and is as follows: — *' Estimate of the value of the Works printed by the former Com- mission, and presented to Public Libraries since Februaiy 1834. /. s. d. I. s. d. 25 Sets at 192 102 do. at 183 lfj6 do. at 11.7 40 do. at 113 20 do. at 89 18 10 o . . . . 4,803 15 . . . . 18,691 10 6 . . . . 19,177 3 . . . . 4,524 . . . . 1,798 Additions to former Grants 1,797 10 50,791 18 '* Estimate of the value of the Works printed by the present Com- mission, anil presented to Public Libraries since February 1834. /, s. d. i" s. d. 47 Sets at 17 3 80G 1 135 do. at 19 G ... . 2,568 7 6 3,374 8 6." 182 Miscellaneous Evidence. 888. Q. If the Commission had not existed, must not the ex- pense of many of these publications have been thrown upon other departments? — A. Yes. , 889. Q. For instance, the Catalogues of the Harleian, Cot- tonian and Lansdovvne Collections? — A. The cost of those pub- lications must have been borne by the British Museum. 890. Q. The Statutes of the Realm, the Mts of Parliament of Scotland? — A. The cost of these works must have been provided for in the same way that the cost of printing the Domesday Book, the Rolls of Parliament, the Journals, ac. is provided for. 891. Q. Now do you think that any saving would have been effected, had the Record volumes, instead of being printed under the superintendence of the Commission, been printed under superintendence similar to that exercised over Domesday Book and the Rolls of Parliament?— A. Certainly not. I have heard that Dr. Morton and Mr. A. Farley received not less than 10,000/. for the editorship of Domesday Book, They were employed upon the work thirteen or fourteen years. 892. Q. At the rate of remuneration fixed by the present Board, what would have been the cost of Domesday Book for transcription and editorship? — A. For transcription, at 4d. per folio, 264/. 17s. 6d.', and for editorship, at two guineas per sheet, 609/.; — total cost only 873/. 17s. 6c?. 893. Q. The record is not difficult to be read ? — A. No. It is much more easy to be read than the Close Rolls, the Patent Rolls, and, indeed, than most of our antient records. 894. Q. Do you know any thing of the cost of the Rolls of Parliament?— -A. No. The Index to those five volumes only was in hand between fifty and sixty years. It was finished about three years ago. The compilers of course were paid by salary; and were responsible to Parliament alone. 89.'). Q. In answer to Question 1829, after remarking that in the First Fruits Office is kept the most valuable of our eccle- siastical records, the Valor Ecclesiaslicus of King Henry VIII., you go on to say, ** I am sorry to hear that any one should have •* ventured to make an assertion, respecting this record, which *' may be productive of very mischievous consequences to those ** entitled to church property. It has been stated, that an un- " published portion of this record exists in the Augmentation Office. The matter is so important, that I shall take an oppor- tunity of showing before this inquiry closes, that the fragments alluded to formed no portion of the Valor; and in myjudge- " ment, it would have been very improper to publish them." In « « (( Miscellaneous Evidence, 183 answer also to Question 2610, after citing two passages in the Evidence of another witness, you say, " Now this statement (the " alleged discovery of other portions of the Valor) is one which, " as I intimated on a former day, may be productive of great in- " convenience and injury to those in possession of property, the " title to which is based upon this important record, and 1 shall, " therefore, before this inquiry ends, lay before the Committee " those details which are requisite to show that such statement is " inaccurate and erroneous." Have you prepared some paper upon this point, which you desire to deliver in? — A. Yes. The Chairman of this Committee, who is understood to have de- rived his information from Mr. Cole, has alleged in another place that, ** although given to the public as complete, it has since been found, that as much has been omitted as would make a whole volume." Mr. Protheroe also has alleged, before this Com- mittee, that " a considerable portion of the Valor Ecclesiasticus relative to Wales has been discovered in the Augmentation Office;" that a lost portion of the Valor has been discovered. Mr. Hardy and Mr. Cole have not ventured to deliver their testimony in the same terms— although to one unacquainted with the subject it would appear, that such testimony is a direct confirmation of the allegations of the Chairman and Mr. Protheroe. These fragments are so insignificant (I have carefully examined them) that, instead of making a whole folio volume, they would not fill twenty pages. They form no part of the Valor : and although the Editors of the supplementary volume have inserted in it some documents of a similar kind to those fragments, yet in my judgment they clearly ought not to have done so, except where the portions of the original Valor are lost; which is not the case here. What Mr. Hardy means by saying that he has compared the portion found with the portion printed in the supplemental volume, and that ** it ought to have been printed in preference to what was printed," I am quite at a loss to know, nor do I believe that he can explain himself. I deliver in two papers upon this subject : the second was drawn up by Mr. Black. [See the Supplement.] 896. Q. The Chairman says (Question 2836), '' You were '' being examined the other day with reference to a proposal made " to make certain of the records printed by the Board evidence m " Courts of Law."* One of these was the Testa de Neville, • It is right to insert here such passages as occur in my corrected Evidence re- 'specting this proposal. The Chairman puts the question relative to the second volume of my compilation on the Public Records :— , . _ * . r o " 2639 In the second volume of this work there is a proposal for an Act ot far- *' liamentto make the old publications of the Record Commission evidence in Courts " of Justice ■ by whose suggestion was that Act framed, or what was done about that " Act in fact 1— You are alluding to the draught of a bill prepared some years ago by J 84 Miscellaneous Evidence. You answer " Yes. In the pamphlet which I hold in my hand, " entitled ' Report of the Debate, &c.'* it is, if I recollect right, '* alleged that there are in that volume 1£0 mistakes in about 20 lines/' The Chairman then says, " That word ' mistakes* had " been corrected before ; the word ought to be ' variations/ The " case about the Testa de Neville is this, that the I'esta de Neville " are abstracted from rolls." You reply, " I perceive that in this ** pamphlet the word * variations* has been substituted for * mis- *' takes.' The passage is, * In one publication by the Old Com- " mission, the transcript called Testa de Neville, there were 120 " variations from the original roll in 22 lines.' Then come the words * hear, hear.' "t The Chairman afterwards examines you at some length upon this point, to which you say you will return another time. J Have you not prepared some paper upon this " Sir Francis Palgrave, to give to certain authentic copies, wiittea and printed, the *' validity and force of original records. ** 2640. Did you sanction that proposal I Was it ever entertained by the Commis- " sioners 1 — 1 never gave the proposal any consideration. It had not been before the *' Board during my Secretaryship. •* 2641. What was the object then of mentioning it in the work ? — To afford infor- ** mation upon the subject, whenever it might be discussed. " 2642. Now, from what I recollect of the passage, it appears there is a proposal '* sanctioned by the writer of the book, and as far as your name in the title page had •* any weight as Secretary to the Commission, or as far as it could have weight, being " known to be a work printed by the Commission, the impression must naturally have " arisen from recording the passage that that was a scheme which the Commission had " in view. Does not that appear to you a proof of the impropriety of the mode in " which the work was put together, without any distinction between the sources from ** which authority the various headings in the work emanated 1 — I admit no impropriety " whatever in the mode in which the work has been edited ; and some better proof than " that now adduced must be found, before it can be made out that there is any such ** impropriety. In the very same volume (it is vol. i. and not vol. ii.) in which is in- " serted ' from Manuscript Collection' the material clause of the draught bill, you '• will find, if 1 mistake not, an extract from a letter written by Sir Thomas Plomer, •* Master of the Rolls, to Lord Canterbury, as Chairman of the Record Board, calling " attention to the want of an Act to authenticate copies of such records as are in dan- " ger of becoming illegible, without which, when the originals are defaced or oblite- *' rated, there may be considerable difficulty of publishing for permanent use, and par- " ticularly to be in all future times unexceptionable evidence in Courts of Justice, any " copies that be made however correct and faithful, iic. &c." * The pamphlet here alluded to bears the following title — (the Chairman disclaimed all knowledge of it) : — " Record Commission. Report of the Debate in the House of Commons on the Motion of Charles BuUer, Esq,, M.P, for Liskeard,for a Select Com- mittee to inquire into the Management and Affairs of the Record Commission, and the present State of the Records of the United Kingdom, 18 February, 1836." t ** In the Testa de Neville, published from the original, by the Old Comroission« there are 120 errors in 22 lines, and yet that book has been quoted as an authority in a Court of Law instead of the original roll. If the roll had been consulted, those errors would have been detected." — Mirror of Parliament, X The following are the remaining Questions and Answers taken from the corrected Evidence. "2838. That is the statement; is that inaccurate ^— It is calculated to mislead. *' The Testa de yeville was compiled about the close of the reign of Edward II. , or in *' the begianing of that of Edward III., partly from inquests taken upon the present- Miscellaneous Evidence. 185 point which you are desirous of delivering in? — A. Yes : I have it in my hand. [See the Supplement.] 897. Q. Both the Valor Ecclesiasticus and the Testa de Neville are publications of the former Commission? — A. Yes. *' ment of knights, and other jurors of hundreds, before the justices itinerant, and partly " from inquisitions upon writs awarded to the sheriffs of counties for the collecting of " escuage and aid. Now by the words ' the original roll' (it should be rolls), men- " tioned in this ' Report of the Debate,' these inquests and inquisitions are manifestly ** intended ; and as the Testa de Neville is not a transcript of, but merely a compilation " from, those documents, it is obviously impossible that the printed volume in question " should correspond with them. I have prepared some observations upon this alleged '• defect in the publication called the Testa de Neville, with which it will be my duty to *' trouble the Committee at a later period of this inquiry. " 2839. Do you mean that these are merely observations on the Testa de Neville? — " The observations are designed to show, that in this, as in other instances, the ho- *' nourable and learned Chairman has been betrayed into a mistake ; and considering •* how obscure these matters are, it is not much to be wondered at ; a collation has " been made of the printed book with the inquests and inquisitions, instead of with ** the Testa de Neville itself. " 2340. That was stated 1 — No, it was not, as I read the passage in this report of " your speech. " 2841. You must not take that pamphlet you have in your hand as the authentic " report ; the distinction is perfectly well understood. It was stated, the only thing " which could be valued as an authentic source of information, was the original return; " that the original return had been compared with the printed book, and that there " were variations, which were not attributed to the inaccuracies of the transcripts of " Testa de Neville, but to the inaccuracies of Neville himself. It was suggested the " impropriety of their projecting that work, and much more as to the impropriety of *' making that work evidence in Courts of Justice? — The compilation called the Testa " de Ntiille has always been received as evidence in the Court of Exchequer, and " every one acquainted with records, knows that the Old Board acted very wisely in " directing it to be printed, without reference to any rolls or documents, which may •* have furnished part of the materials out of which it was formed 500 years ago. But " I will return to this point another time. *' 2842. Are you sure that the Testa de Neville has any more authority than that •* of one Chief Justice ? — For five centuries the Testa de Neville has been held to be " a compilation of great value. " 2843. So are many old books ; so are the Year-books ; but no one would quote •' them in matters of detail. Unless you could show the Testa de Neville was a book " which has the authority of a record, you make nothing in favour of a proposal for *' making it a record, if there were more accurate sources of information existing. But " in your own work there are to be found these passages ; it is an extract from the *' Quarterly Review : — * The Testa de Neville is sometimes known by the name of ** Liber Feodornm, and contains an abstract made, as it is conjectured, either by Ralph •' Neville, an accountant of the Exchequer in the reign of Henry III., or by Joannes " de Neville, a justice itinerant of the same period ; and it is extremely valuable as " giving a condensed and and accurate view of the feudality of the thirteenth century ; " though, as it was intended merely as a book of general evidence for the use of the *' contemporaries of the compilers, many notices which would have been raostinstruc- " tive to after times were necessarily omitted .' Then it is stated in the next passage, "•* It seems the Testa de Neville was not deemed a record, in the legal sense of the " word, in the fourteenth century.' Again, in the text you quote Libtr Feodorum, &c. " &c. ; the words * evidence' and ' record' do not seem to be used very accurately in " any of these passages, but it would seem from all of them that this work never had " the authority of a record I — Iste liber compositus fuit et compilatus de diversis inqui- " sitionibus ex officio captis, et sic contenta pro evidenciis habeantur et non pro re- *• cordo." 180 Miscellaneous Evidence, 898. Q. Supposing that there exist in them any errors or defects, you do consider that the present Board is not any wise responsible for them ? — A. Certainly not. 899. Q. Was not Mr. Illingworth, who has been examined by this Conunittee as a witness, the Editor of the Testa de Neville'!^ — A. He was: and I have no doubt that the work is very well edited. 900. Q. Are you acquainted with the publication called the Calendars of Inquisitions post Mortem '^ — A. I am. It is a pub- lication of former Commissions. 901. Q. Is it not printed from the office-calendars of Inqui- sitions at the Tower? — A. Yes. 902. Q. Are you acquainted with the publication called the Calendar of Charter Roils, and the publication called the Calendar of Patent Rolls? — A. 1 am. They are also publications of a former Commission. gOS, Q. Are they not printed from office-calendars at the Tower? — A. Yes. 904. Q. When were these works Hrst put to press ? — A. The calendar of Inquisitions about July 1803, the calendar of Patent Rolls in November 1800, and the calendar of Charter Rolls about June 1802. 905. Q. Did not the Select Committee of the House of Com- mons, appointed in 1800 to inquire into the public records of the kingdom, recommend by its Report that such office-calendars to the Inquisitions post mortem, the Charter Rolls and the Patent Rolls, should be printed ? — A. Yes. 90(). Q. Was not Mr. Astle, in 1800, the Keeper of the records at the Tower ? — A. He was. 907. Q. Did he not, in his Return to that Committee, recom- mend that the Calendars of Inquisitions post mortem " particu- larly" should be printed? — A. Yes. 908. Q. Did he not also in such Return recommend the print- ing of the Calendars to the Patent Rolls and Charter Rolls? — A. He did. 909. Q. Do you conceive that, at the period when the publica- tion of these office-calendars took place, the Select Committee of the House of Commons which recommended that measure, and the Record Commission which carried it into effect, could have recourse to a person more competent to give a correct opinion upon it than the late Mr. Astle? — A. I am told not: but the printing of these calendars does not rest upon the indi- vidual recommendation of Mr, Astle. The Select Committee of the House of Commons, in its elaborate Report, after stating that one of ** the most essential of all measures, for the purpose of lay- Miscellaneoiis Evidence, 187 ing open to the public a full knowledge of the contents of the various and extensive record repositories, would be unquestion- ably to print some of the principal calendars and indexes," pro- ceeds thus : — " The selection which your Committee have to propose, does not rest wholly upon their own judgment. They have thought it their duty to consult persons of the greatest learning and experience upon these sub- jects ; who, upon a review of the several Returns laid before your Com- mittee, and after deliberate consideration, have proposed the following articles, in which your Committee entirely concur, strongly recommend- ing them to the attention of the House. Of calendars and indexes, they recommend the following to be printed, which are already Jit for the press.^* 910. Q. Did not Mr. Astle first recommend the printing of these office-calendars in his Return to an order of the Select Com- mittee, dated the 21st of February 1800? — A. He did. 911. Q. Was he not required, by another order of the same Committee, dated the 4th of April 1800, to make a further re- turn? — A. He was. 912. Q. By that order was he not required again to state which of the calendars to the records in the Tower it would be useful to the public to have printed, and which of them were sufficiently correct and complete for the press, or might be made so by the ordinary diligence of the persons employed in his office, in the course of three months from the time of beginning to prepare the same for the press ?— A. Yes. And in the Return made by Mr. Astle to that last order he says, that he conceived that the Calen- dars to the Patent and Charter Rolls, and the Inquisitions post mortem, would be useful to the public if printed. He thought that the Calendars to the Patent Rolls were sufficiently complete for printing; but before they might be put to press, a proper person should be appointed to compare them with the original rolls in the Tower, who might at the same time superintend the printing, and might also be employed in making the indexes viro- rum et locorum as the sheets were printed off. 913. Q. How are these calendars described in the return of Mr. Astle? — A. Those of the Inquisitions are described as " Eight volumes [of Calendars] to the Inquisitions post mortem in each King's reign, separately, from Henry III. to Edward IV.;" those of the Charter Rolls, as *' Three volumes to the Charter Bolls, with indexes nominum at the end of each, from Henry III. to Edward IV.;'' and those of the Patent Rolls, as " Four large manuscript volumes of Calendars to the Patent Rolls, from King John to Edward IV. in 1483, which were procured by Mr. Astle from the executors of the late Mr. Rooke." 914. Q. Is it not also stated in one of Mr. Astle's Returns to 188 Miscellaneous Evidence. the Select Committee of 1800, that fourteen other volumes of calendars or repertories to the Inquisitions, ** classed in coun- ties," contained the names of the estates and of their possessors in each county, chronologically arranged? — A. Yes. 915. Q. Is it not plain from Mr. Astle's Returns that neither of those calendars contained the names of the heirs? — A. Yes: there never has been any official calendar of heirs.* The " Ca- lendarium Haredum" now framing by Mr. Roberts under the direction of the Board, is intended to supply this deficiency. 916. Q. Are not the defects in the Calendar of the Patent Rolls, which are mentioned in the Evidence of some of the wit- nesses examined before this Committee (Sir H. Nicolas and Mr. Hardy), specified in the preface to the printed volume? — A. Yes, there is this passage in the preface : — " The Calendar to these Rolls, now published, is printed from four manuscript volumes procured in the year 1775, by Mr. Astle, for public use, from the executors of Henry Rooke, esq., collated with two manuscripts in the Cottonian Library, in the British Museum, marked Titus C. II. and III. " Many omissions and deficiencies in the Tower copy have been sup- plied by that in the Museum, which seems to have been compiled in the reign of James I., from the records themselves, by some experienced clerk, who has selected from them what appeared to him most useful and interesting. *' It may be proper to observe, that as this Calendar, though entitled to great merit, is only a selection, various entries appear on the Patent Rolls which are not here described ; and therefore, though this work will be found to yield much important information, no one is to be deterred from an examination of any record referred to elsewhere, as being on the Patent Roll, because it is not to be discovered here. An index rerum, an index locorum, and an index nominum, are subjoined." 917. Q. Was not this volume published in 1802? — A. Yes. 918. Q. In the preface to the Calendar to the Charter Rolls is it not stated that it was *' printed from three volumes preserved in the Record Office, apparently written in the time of James I.?" — A. Yes: that volume was published in 1803. 919. Q. Do you think that the Select Committee of 1800 committed an error, in adopting the recommendation of Mr. Astle, that these office-calendars should be sent to press ? — A. Looking at the state of" record-knowledge" at that period, I am disposed to think that the Committee did wisely in directing such calendars to be printed : I think, however, they ought to have been printed in a cheaper form. Formerly, I doubted the expediency of this step : but, since I have found that the compilation of calendars requires so much time and expense, it has more than once occurred to me, whether the immediate benefit that would be derived by • See the Supplement. Miscellaneous Evidence, 189 the archaeologist, the genealogist, the historian and the lawyer, from the publication of all the best office-calendars in their exist- ing shape, would not justify the cost of transcribing and printing. 920. Q. Did you not, in the year 1833, lay before the Board a new plan for publishing the Chancery Calendars, together with an estimate? — A. Yes : in the early part of the year 1833, a spe- cimen of the proposed calendar was printed, and an estimate was made by the printer. In printing and paper a saving was shown of 228()/., in one reign, by changing the folio forni for the large octavo. Peculiar circumstances render it unfair to state the saving which my plan, if it had been applied, would have effected in one publication. 921. Q. You think it might be expedient to carry out farther the principle upon which the Select Committee of the House of Commons proceeded in 1800, and print the best of the office- calendars in some of the principal record repositories, without waiting for the compilation of new and more perfect calendars ? A. Yes, upon the ground that many years must elapse before better calendars could be framed, and the moderate cost for which the office-calendars might be copied and printed, would be amply repaid by the advantage accruing to the public in the interval. A sum of KXX)/., for instance, would be very well spent in putting forth, for general information and use, one of the calendars at the Rolls' Chapel ; although, in the progress of operations there, such calendar may some years hence be superseded by one of a more elaborate kind. In each case, however, you must weigh the interim benefit against the expense. 922. Q. Did you ever hear of any representation having been made to the first Record Board, of the inexpediency of the step advised by Mr. Astle, that of printing the office-calendars of the Inquisitions, the Patent Rolls, and the Charter Rolls?— A. No. 923. Q. Has not the present Board long been aware of the existence of defects in these three works ? — A. Of course. They appear from Mr. Astle's Returns to the Select Committee, and from the Prefaces. 924. Q. Are not those defects pointed out in your compdation upon the Public Records? — A. Yes. 925. Have the witnesses, who have been examined before this Committee, pointed out any defects of which the present Com- missioners and yourself were not aware five years ago? — A. 926. Q. When did such defects first become known?— A. About seven years ago. 927. Q. Nearly thirty years after the Committee of the House of Commons had recommended such calendars to be printed ? — 190 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence. 191 A. Yes, and about the same time after they were sent to press : and not much less after the volumes of Calendars of the Patent and Charter Rolls, and the first volume of the Calendar of In- quisitionsy were published. 928. Q. You have said it would have taken a great number of years to fill up the defects in these calendars ? — A. Yes. Mr. Roberts has been engaged since 1 833 in supplying the deficiency in the calendars of Inquisitions post mortem, and he has not yet got to the end of the reign of Edward I. 929. Q. Has he proceeded through a period of about one hundred years ? — A. Not yet : and nearly two hundred years remain. The Inquisitions, too, are proportionably much fewer during the former period. 930. Q. Does it not appear, by annual Reports made by Mr. Petrie to the Board, that the Keeper of the records at the Tower and his Clerks have commenced the compilation of new calendars to the Patent Rolls and Charter Rolls ?— A. Yes. 931. Q. Can you state to the Committee when these calendars respectively were commenced? — A. No, I cannot: but it ap- pears from documents in the possession of the Board, that the new calendar to the Patent Rolls must have been commenced prior to the year 1819, and the new calendar to the Charter Rolls prior to the year 18'25. In 1832, the former had been brought down only to the thirty-eighth year of Henry III., and the latter had been brought down only toward the close of the reign of Edward II. 932. Q. There is, in Mr. Cole's Evidence (Question 4762), the following remark : — ** A work in four folio volumes, the •* Inquisitiofies post mortem, was printed, and I believe only '* the Tower repository was consulted for that class of records, ** whilst others existed in three other repositories, and I know " that some have been since found in the Exchequer that would ** supply many blanks existing in that publication." Can you explain the meaning of this remark, as applicable to the publi- cation of the calendars of Inquisitions post mortem at the Tower ? — A. No : unless Mr. Cole means that any calendars of this kind ought to embrace, not only the Inquisitions at the Tower, but those at the Rolls' Chapel, in the Duchy of Lancaster Office, in the Chapter House, in the King's Remembrancer's Office, and in the Land-Revenue Office. 933. Q. The Select Committee of 1800 came to a different conclusion ?— A. Yes. That Committee advised the printing se- parately of the Office Calendars of Inquisitions at the Tower, to which might be added in continuation of the same subject, those which are at the Rolls and in the Duchy Office of Lancaster. . 934. Q. These Office Calendars of Inquisitions, at the Tower alone, make four printed folio volumes ; do they not? — A. Yes. 935. Q. Is not one of Mr. Cole's catalogues, the printing of which was commenced last summer, a List of Ministers' Ac- counts ? — A. Yes. 936. Q. Are not the ministers' accounts, like the Inquisitions post mortem, preserved in various offices? — A. Yes. There are ministers' accounts in the Augmentation Office, the Land Revenue Office, the Duchy of Lancaster and Duchy of Cornwall Office, and the King's Remembrancer's Office. 937. Q. Does Mr. Cole's Catalogue comprehend all these ministers' accounts?— A. No. It is confined to those which are to be found in the Augmentation Office. 938. Q. Did Mr. Cole ever suggest to you that his Catalogue should embrace all the ministers' accounts ? — A. No. 939. Q. Do you think it expedient that an attempt should be made to comprize, in catalogues of documents of the nature of Inquisitions post mortem and ministers' accounts, all such of the particular class as are known to exist? — A. No. The attempt would be unsuccessful. The documents are too numerous and too scattered. 940. Q. In your judgement it is better to confine a catalogue to the contents of a particular office?— A. Yes, in general. That is an opinion which it is well known that I have entertained for several years. 941. Q. Supposing the records should be concentrated m one large building? — A. In that event the different collections should, I think, still be kept apart, at least, for some time to come. It would be an extremely hazardous experiment to mix them. It would be almost impossible to do so, without rendering a very large proportion of the office-indexes useless ; and experience has shown how very slowly the operation of making new cata- logues and indexes proceeds, even under the most favourable cir- cumstances. 942. Q. You have said, in an early part of your Evidence, that publications called the Rotuli Selecti and the Chancellor's Moll are the only two works produced by the present Commissioners, of which, in your judgment, they have not reason to be proud. Neither of those works exceeds an octavo volume ?— A. No. The Rotuli Selecti forms an octavo volume of 265 pages, and the Chancellors Roll an octavo volume of 362 pages. 943. Q. Was not the original Editor of those volumes found to be incompetent to his task?— A. Yes; and in consequence it became requisite, when they were wholly or very nearly com- pleted at press, to place them in the hands of another gentleman. 944. Q, It was found necessary to cancel several sheets ? — 192 Miscellaneous Evidence. A. Yes ; and the expense of those cancels was borne by the first Editor. . ,. . 945. Q. What has been the total cost of transcribing, editing, and printhig each of these volumes?— A. The Rotuli Selecti 2501. lis. \d. The Chancellors Roll, 411/. Is. 2d. 946. Q. Has any plan been suggested for avoidnig m future such mistakes as these, in the choice of editors possessed of com- petent skill and learning? -A. Yes. It has been proposed I think by Mr. Protheioe, that Committees should be appointed, not merely to put the qualifications of any new editor to the test, but to examine the sheets of all works passing through the press under the care of the Sub-Commissioners and tried Editors, with a view of reporting upon the accuracy of the same. But such proposal has appeared open to objections, some of which were, 1 think, alluded to in the Evidence of Mr. Hallam. 947. Q. Did you ever have any communication with any of the Sub-Commissioners or experienced Editors upon the course to be adopted where a doubt exists of the competency of editors ? A Yes. I have a memorandum of a communication which I had upon this subject with Sir Harris Nicolas, some time in the year 1833. Mr. Protheroe had suggested a mode of examination : Sir H. Nicolas thought no such examination could be satis- factory,— that it would do something, but not much. Sir Harris proposed as an amendment, that all plans for editing a work should be referred to competent persons to report upon, who might, from time to time, overlook an editor of whose capacity suspicions were entertained. He, however, observed that he knew not what individual of reputation would submit to such a iury of schoolmasters. ^ 1 ^ * 948. Q. Since the discovery of the incompetency of the tirst Editor of the volumes of the Roinli Selecti and Chancellor's Roll, has there been any occasion for this overlooking?— A. I am not aware that there has been such occasion. Certainly not, if Mr. Cole's Calendars are free from any considerable error. 1 he prefaces, notes, and other original composition of one or two of our best Editors of records require overlooking. , 949 Q Are not the prefaces submitted to the Commissioners previously to publication ?— A. Yes, always. They are also sub- mitted to individual Commissioners whilst m type. 950. Q. Has not the Board occasionally directed passages in the prefaces to be cancelled ?— A. Yes. An order of that kmd was lately made in the case of a preface of Sir F. Palgrave. 951. Q. And have not considerable portions of prefaces in type been expunged at the suggestion of individual Commis- sioners?— A. Yes; that occurred last year in the case of a preface of Mr. Hardy. Miscellaneous Evidence. 193 952. Q. The usual rate of remuneration for editing a record is 150/. for an octavo volume, or two guineas per sheet for a folio volume : is it not? — A. Yes : it was adopted as long ago as the year 1832. No one has ever alleged that it is excessive. 953. Q. Did not the former Board pay Is. 6d. per folio for the transcription of a record ? — A. Yes : and we pay only 4t/., hov. - ever difficult to decipher the record may be. 954. Q. Do you make any gratuity to the officer having the custody of the record ? — A. Never. 955. Q. When you were appointed Secretary, did you not find that in certain offices it had been usual to do so i* — A. Yes : it was a practice which I refused to follow. 956. Can you give an example of this practice ?— A. Yes. The old Board paid Mr. Burton Fowler 9c?. per folio, for permission to copy the Red Book of the Exchequer. 957. Q. What is the mode of remuneration adopted with re- gard to the formation of Catalogues ? — A. The gentlemen engaged in that work receive salaries. Generally, as with regard to the miscellaneous records in the King's Remembrancer's Office and at the Tower, calendaring is carried on simultaneously with ar- ranging. 958. Q. In that case, a payment per printed sheet of the ca- lendar might be too high, if there was little to be done in the way of arranging, or too low if there was much to be done ? — A. Yes. Where the documents to be calendared are already arranged, as, for instance, the Transcripts for the New Edition of the Fadera, there is no difficulty in giving a sum per sheet. 959. Q. You have mentioned the calendaring of the miscel- laneous records in two repositories. Was not the attention of the Board drawn, two or three years ago, to the subject of making calendars to various collections of miscellaneous records? — A. Yes. The Board printed a paper, which contained the remarks of a very eminent topographical writer upon that matter. 960. Q. In that paper, did not the able writer to whom you allude state, that, for the especial purpose of historical research, catalogues of the contents of some of the depositories of histori- cal papers would be of even greater value than the best catalogues that exist ?— A. Yes. By the '' best catalogues" you mean those of the Cottonian, Lansdowne, and Harleian manuscripts, the ca- talogues of the manuscripts at Lambeth and at Durham, &c. 961. Q. Did not such writer instance a catalogue of the mis- cellaneous records at the Tower, as one that the Board ought to direct to be made ?— A. Yes. He also instanced a catalogue of the miscellaneous records at the Chapter House. Fie added that catalogues, such as these, would bring to light the existence of o 194 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence, 195 documents which are at present quite unknown, and would pro- bably present to view some, which the Board might afterward esteem worthy of receiving the protection which the press throws over a record, and of being distributed extensively throughout the community. 962. Q. It has been stated that the Commissioners are about to make, to His Majesty in Council, a General Report of their Proceedings, and that a considerable part of the Appendix to such Report has been printed?— A. Yes. 963. Q. Have the Commissioners had any motive m not mak- ing an earlier Report?— A. Yes. Had the Commissioners deter- mmed to make a Report to the King at an earlier period, they could have done little more than state the defect existing m the consti- tution of the Board, from its want of power to enforce any direc- tions that it may give for the regulation of the offices; and it has appeared to them that it was less expedient to follow that course, than themselves to take measures to have such defect supplied. The Journals of both Houses abound with instances of the ineffi- cacy of Reports of this kind : and when it is considered what important matters have occupied Parliament during the period that has elapsed since the present Commission was issued, it is not difficult to perceive that such a Report as I am alluding to was not likely to draw any useful attention. 964. Q. Did not the former Commissions make two General Reports, which were printed by order of the House of Commons? —A. Yes. One in 1812, and another in 1819: and those Re- ports show the extreme difficulty which the Commissioners have experienced, in getting the Legislature, the Government, and the Treasury, to carry into effect their recommendations, although many of those recommendations were founded upon recommen- dations made by Parliamentary Committees. Take one only of the heads into which the Report of the Select Committee of 1800 is distributed, namely, that of " Buildings." In the Report of 1800 it is stated that the Chapter House required to have a building added to it, which niight serve as an office for affording a more convenient inspection of the records there, to all who have occasion to consult them, might furnish better accommodation for transcribing them when required, and enable the several clerks upon that establishment to proceed more diligently and constantly in completing their indexes and reper- tories, than could be expected of them during the greater part of :ho year, in the present state of the apartments allotted for this business. The Committee recommended the measure with the more confidence, inasmuch as it found that the House of Com- mons presented an address to His Majesty for erecting a building contiguous to the Rolls Chapel for similar purposes, and that such building had been since erected accordingly, and found to be productive of great convenience to the public. The Com- mittee reported that, at the Tower nothing was wanting to its complete repair, except some additional support to the frame- work and stages, in the large apartments adjoining to what is commonly called Caesar's Chapel ; — that the Exchequer of Re- ceipt adjoining to Westminster Hall, including the Offices of the Auditor, Tellers, Tally Court and Pells, ought, accordingly to the Report made to the House of Commons in 1789, and accordingly to the unanimous opinion of all the present officers, to be speedily rebuilt and secured from the hazards of fire ; — that the Exche- quer of Account, situated on the other side of Westminster Hall, and comprehending Offices belonging to the King's Remem- brancer, the Clerk of the Pells, and the Auditors of the Land Revenue for England and Wales, was in need of the same degree of attention ; — that the antient buildings adjoining to Westmin- ster Hall, containing all the offices belonging to the Exchequer of Receipt, were not only too much straitened in space, but were also constructed of materials which rendered them wholly unsafe for the purposes to which they were allotted. The Com- mittee, having found that the papers in the Office of the Commis- sioners for auditing the Public Accounts, were daily perishing by damp in the vaults under the buildings in Somerset Place, and that, if any accident of fire happened to that office or to the Pipe Office, the originals and duplicates of the public accounts must be consumed together ; also that the records of the Lord Trea- surer's Remembrancer's Office, in the same place, were exposed equally to all these complicated risks, and were in the mean time absolutely inaccessible for want of space, inquired into the best means of providing an immediate remedy ; and had the satisfac- tion of stating that means apparently effectual were proposed, and were about to be carried into execution. The Committee likewise represented that, from what had been already noticed respecting the Offices of the Commissioners for auditing the Public Accounts, the Pipe Office, and the Lord Treasurer's Re- membrancer's Office in Somerset Place, it was evident that the measures already proposed, or such others as might be more effectual for the same purpose, should be adopted without delay; inasmuch as the consequences of their destruction would be irre- trievable, and must involve the public and its accountants in the most inextricable difficulties ; — that either such buildings as were private property should be purchased on behalf of the public, in all cases where their present situation and structure were conve- nient for the uses to which they were applied ; or their contents o 2 196 Miscellaneous Evidence, Miscellaneous Evidence. 197 i should be transferred to some other buildings, which \yere or mi<'ht be made the property of the public;— that the Offices of the'' Clerk of the Crown, the Petty Bag, and the Examiners ni Chancery, should be placed in some building to be constructed at the public expense, either in the Rolls* Yard, or elsewhere, near to the other Chancery offices; and that the like observation might be applied to the Offices of the Register of Affidavits, the Clerk of the Custodies, the Clerk of the Dispensations and Faculties, and to the Offices for the execution of the Bankrupt X^aws ;— that the Courts of Common Law stood in need of the same accommodation and security, for the records entrusted to the custody of their officers; which was most apparent from the returns made by all the officers of the Courts of King s Bench and Common Pleas, and was confirmed to the fullest extent by the ocular observation of the Committee, in its visitation of the principal offices ;— that, besides, it was necessary to add, that the suitors of all His Majesty's Courts would be much benefited if the chambers of the Judges were situated in some public build- in<'. with accommodations suitable to their rank, and at the same time fitted for the preservation of those documents and affidavits which belong to their own separate proceedings, until they are transferred in due course to their proper repositories ;— that great practical inconveniences to the public have actually arisen from the want of these arrangements ;--that the County Registry for Middlesex should be placed in some repository more effectually secured from fire; and that the same circumstance should be particularly attended to in all others; — that the Herald's Office required to be removed into some public building, or to be secured against the extreme peril of fire to which it was exposed; that these precautions, which the Committee had suggested with respect to buildings, were not to be deemed superfluous, for repeated instances of the destruction of public instruments by fire occur, throughout the returns appended to the Report; of which there was a memorable example in the Office of the Lord Trea- surer's Remembrancer of the Court of Exchequer, which had been twice burnt, with the loss of many of the most valuable records of the Crown, and among them the original returns of the Nomina Villarum of England. 965. Q. The measures proposed for providing against the de- struction of the records of the Pipe Office, and the Lord Trea- surer's Remembrancer's Office, are detailed in the Appendix to the House of Commons Report: are they not?— A. Yes. 96G. Q. And they met with the approbation of the Com- mittee: did they not? — A. Yes. 9G7. Q. What did the Record Commissioners report, in 1812, under the head of " Buildings?"— A. All that the Commis- sioners were able to report in 1812 was, that, upon the earnest representations of the Commissioners, some steps had been taken toward providing a more secure repository for the State Papers in London ; and that an increased accommodation had been pro- vided for the record-offices in the Chapter-House of Westminster, and at the Tower of London ; and in like manner for those offices of the Court of Chancery, which serve for the business of the Clerk of the Crown, the Petty Bag, the Cursitors and the Examiners. 968. Q. Is not that Report of the Commissioners silent as to the measures noticed in the Report of the Select Committee of the House of Conmions, which had been proposed with respect to the records of the Pipe and the Lord Treasurer's Remem- brancer's Office, and the papers belonging to the Office of the Commissioners for auditmg the Public Accounts? — A. Yes, it is. Those measures, having been recommended by the Select Committee, had been carried into execution. 969. Q. You can presently explain what those measures were? — A. I believe I can. 970. Q. In the Appendix to the Report of 1800, is it not stated that the house in which some of the State Papers were kept, was old and ruinous throughout, and that the overflowing of the river into the cellars of the buildings in Scotland Yard, almost at every high tide, rendered the lower apartments so extremely damp, as to be w holly unfit for the preservation of papers and records? — A. It is so stated. 971. Q. What descriptions are given, in the Appendix to this Report, of the buildings in which the records of the Clerk of the Pells, of the King's Remembrancer, of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer, of the Clerk of the Pipe, and of the Auditors of the Land Revenue for England and for Wales were deposited ? —A. The records of the Clerk of the Pells are described as being partly kept in the tower adjoining the northern entrance of Westminster Hall. In this tower it is said, that all the Pell Books were contained, excepting those which relate to exchequer annui- ties; — that it was built of stone, and appeared to be secure from common risk ; but there was a wine cellar at the lowest story, which had been lent by Sir Edward Walpole to his brother. Lord Orford, and to the late Duke of Newcastle, succeeding Auditors of the Exchequer, and was then (in 1800) occupied by the Speaker of the House of Commons ;— that the bulk, however, of the records and books had been always lodged in the Tally Court, and in two rooms appropriated for transacting business relatmg to exchequer annuities ;— that these offices had no better security, \ 198 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence, 199 ] 1 or chance of safety, than what belonged to houses in general ; — that, if all the books were directed to be arranged in the manner of a hbrary, it was believed space could not be found in the build- ing for such purpose ; nor, without inspection, was it possible to conceive the want of accommodation throughout all the depart- ments ; — that the inconveniences were equally felt by the officers, and complained of by the public ;— that, as the Exchequer of Receipt contained many apartments, in which there were neces- sarily many constant fires, and these apartments, for the most part, were divided by wooden partitions only, and surrounded by inhabited houses, there was the strongest reason for apprehend- ing that, if any part of the building should unhappily ever catch fire, its construction and contents must irresistibly devote it to instant destruction. The records of the King's Remembrancer are described as " lodged in twelve rooms, belonging to the Crown, in the old buildings at Westminster, adjoining to the court, viz. — " In 2 rooms in the Pump Passage. 3 do. on the same floor with the court. 1 garret over the innermost of the said three rooms. 3 rooms in the Brick Tower. 3 do. in the Stone Tower. 12 " The keys of these rooms" (it is added) '' are kept by the Court Keeper, appointed by an instrument under the hand and seal of the Chief Usher of the Exchequer. They are furnished with shelves and presses ; but several of them are damp and dark." 972. Q. The Port Books, now in the cellars under the Stone Tower, formed part of these records ? — A. Yes. 973. Q. Did not the Select Committee, by their Report, re- commend the destruction of these Port Books? — A. Yes. The Committee observed, that it had appeared to be not inconsistent with its duty to suggest, that it might be proper to destroy those documents which it was useless and inconvenient to preserve; — that it was undoubtedly right to proceed with the utmost caution in destroying any public books or papers whatever ; but it seemed evident that, in all branches of the Exchequer, and in many other offices, the books of temporary use, whereof the contents were afterward entered of record, might be destroyed, much to the convenience of the office, and without any detriment to the pub- lic; — that, of the first sort, a striking example occurs in the Ex- chequer Port Books, which were established in the reign of Queen Elizabeth, but were afterward superseded by a change of system m the customs, condemned as imperfect and useless by the Commissioners of Accounts in 3780, and finally stopped (under the recommendation of the Finance Committee) in 1799 ; and that the former imperfect and useless returns nevertheless continued to encumber the King's Remembrancer's Office, the Office of the Auditors of the Land Revenue, and other offices. The records of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer's Office are stated to be deposited in certain rooms in the house in So- merset Place, adjoining to the Remembrancer's apartments, with a communication from his apartments to the said rooms. The records of the Clerk of the Pipe are described as being lodged, since the removal thereof from the Exchequer, in two rooms on the attic story on the east side of the quadrangle of Somerset Place, a very inconvenient situation, and from their pre- sent state being liable to great injury. With regard to the records of the Auditor of the Land Re- venue for England, the following statement is made : — " The condition of the building, in which the most antient records are lodged, situated over the Exchequer Chamber, is altogether bad ; and the large dark square room, as described by Mr. Lowndes in 1732, more particularly so, not only on account of its darkness, but insecurity, it being a passage to other apartments as well as those of the Auditors. Another serious grievance to the public at large, and individuals of office is, that, unless pending the law terms and after-sittings, there is no access to the records but by application to the Court Keeper, who is not resident on the spot, and not always to be immediately found. This evil might, however, be remedied, if the Auditors were entrusted with a key to the back entrance of the Exchequer from St. Margaret's Street, in common with other principal officers who have that privilege. Labouring under such disadvantages, it is not to be wondered at that the records are now found in the dispersed state here- inafter represented, but rather that they were not entirely neglected j had there been free access, and other desirable accommodations for their security and preservation, the inclination was not wanting to at- tempt an arrangement of these records, after the plan and method suc- cessfully pursued in the Office of the Duchy of Cornwall, which has been favoured with the approbation of this honourable Committee. The apartments on the ground floor, in Palace Yard, where the public business is executed, and the books of enrolment and various other books, papers, and accounts also kept, are in tolerable repair ; and these, together with two of the attic chambers over them, inhabited by the Office Keeper, (very much out of condition) are held under the patent granted to William Henry Cooper, and Frederick Grey Cooper, sons of the right honourable Sir Grey Cooper, Bart., for their lives j but no part of the intermediate story or principal floor, which, with the remamder of the attics or garrets, is allotted to other departments in the Exchequer. Part of the ground floor, thus holden by Messrs. Cooper, is divided oft at the east end, and rented by the other Auditors, Mr. Shelley and Mr. Q.00 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence, 201 I JohDes, jointly, who are sadly incommoded for want of sufficient room." (Reports, 1800, p. 167.) The records of the Land Revenue for Wales are described as being lodged in a building, situated in New Palace Yard, West- minster, adjoining to the Exchequer, and within a few yards of the Thames, in one room only, and that too small for the records of two offices, but otherwise tolerably convenient as to security and acconnnodation for the keeping thereof, were it not so very damp ; for being on the ground floor, and near the Thames, every high tide brousjlit the water more or less into it, although the floor had been considerably raised to keep it dry. 974. Q. Did not the Commissioners deem certain repairs and alterations requisite for the safety and more convenient use of the records in the Chapter House, in addition to the increased accommodation, which (it is mentioned in the General Report ot J 8 12) they had succeeded in obtaining for that repository? — A. Yes : and, during a period of twenty years, numerous ineffectual applications were made on that subject, sometimes to the Trea- sury, and at other times to the Oftice of Woods and Forests. 975. Q. What is said in the Appendix to the Report of 1800, with regard to the College of Arms and the First Fruits Office? — A. As to the College of Arms, it is said, — " The building is situated on Bennetts Hill, in the parish of St. Bennet Paul's Wharf, in the city of London. Its situation as to security is perhaps the most dangerous to be conceived. A sugar-house immedi- ately adjoins the library : there is no party-wall between the buildings, and the timbers of the sugar-house are actually inserted in the walls of the College.'* " It has been long in a very ruinous state, and the neces- sary repairs within the last twenty years have amounted to 2089/. j for the defraying of which the Officers of arms have been under the neces- sity of sequestrating not only the greatest part of their fees^ but even a portion of their salaries." {Reports, 1800, p. 82.) As to the records of the First Fruits Ofliice, it is said, — ** These are kept in chambers opposite to the church in the Inner Temple, the property of that society, and demised to John Bacon, esquire. Senior Sworn Clerk, for the term of his life ; but as the tenure is uncer- tain, and the situation not perfectly secure from danger of fire and other casualties, it is submitted to consideration whether the removal of the office to more convenient apartments, the property of government, might not be for the benefit of the public." {Reports, 1800, pp. 21 1, 212.) 976. Q. What do the Commissioners say, by their General Report of 1819, under the head of " Buildings ?"— A. The fol- lowing passages occur in their Second General Report, under this head : — " Buildings. — It is with great satisfaction that the Commissioners are now enabled to state, that measures have been recently taken towards pro- viding a more secure repository for the State Papers in London ; and it is much to be desired that the future arrangements of the State Paper Office may be completed, in a manner adequate to the dignity and im- portance of its objects. Upon inquiry they find that the repairs and alterations which are necessary for the security of the Chapter House, Westminster, have been for some time under the consideration of the Surveyor General of his Majesty's works ; and it is to be hoped that their execution will not be much longer delayed. They also think it incumbent on them to call the public attention, once more, to the incon- venient and perilous state of the several buildings belonging to the Ex- chequer of Receipt, so repeatedly, but ineffectually, brought under the notice of Parliament by Reports from Committees of the House of Commons, and from Commissioners appointed under various Acts of Parliament. Under the same head must be mentioned the msecure state of the Office of First Fruits, which should also be remedied without delay, on account of the valuable ecclesiastical records which it con- tains. With respect to the College of Arms, many well-founded and urgent representations have been made to the Commissioners, since the date of their former Report j which they have referred to the considera- tion of his Majesty's Government ; conceiving that the imminent hazard from fire, to which that building is peculiarly exposed, requires speedy and effectual interposition." (Report*, 1819, I. 328.) 977. Q. Some apprehension was at one time entertained of daiiger to the Chapter House, from some low buildings adjoming it?— A. Yes: I think brew-houses or wash-houses^ They en- gaged the attention of a Committee of the House of Commons, as far back as the year 1732 : it was then reported that there were brew-houses or wash-houses adjoining the Chapter-House. 978. Q. You are alluding to the Committee appointed after the destruction of part of the Cottonian Library by lire at Ash- burnham House ?-— A. Yes ; that Committee visited and reported upon all the principal record-offices. 979. Q. I>id not the Committee of the House of Commons effect a removal of these brew-houses or wash-houses ?— A. No. . 980. Q. The House of Commons was not more successful than the Commission appears to have been ?— A. No. 981. Q. How long did the Pell Records remam in the build* ings adjoining the entrance to Westminster Hall ?— A. Until 1834, when they were removed to Great Scotland Yard, where they are in a course of being repaired and arranged : that work was, however, begun previously to the removal. ^ 982. Q. Where were the Kings Remembrancers records kept, before they were deposited in the old buildings at Westmm- ster, just now mentioned, adjoining the Court of Exchequer?— A. They were kept in a room called the Long Room, another »! i j 202 Miscellaneous Evidence, called the Seizure Room, a third oyer the Tally Office, and two garrets in the tower called the Brick Tower ? 983 Q. Were they not removed from these rooms and garrets to those old buildings, in 1793?— A. Yes : a Committee of the House of Commons, in that year, reported that these records might be well disposed in those old buildings. 984 Q. Were not these records suffered to remam m such old buildincvs, until the different Courts at Westminster Hall were taken down ?— A. Yes. They were then deposited in the wooden shed, where the bulk of them rested, in spite of the unceasing representations made of the destruction which they were under- going, until 1831. . , . 1 J 985. Q. You say the bulk of them remained in the wooden shed until 1831 ?— A. Yes. A portion of the King s Remem- brancer's records was placed in the Stone Tower adjoming the Court of Exchequer, as soon as the new Courts were erected. Some of these records were, I believe, previously in the wooden shed : but I am not sure. , , , i- 986. Q. Were not six rooms in that tower titted up by (govern- ment, for the express reception of those records ?— A. Yes. 987. Q. Did the Record Commission recommend that those rooms'should be fitted up for that purpose ?— A. The late Mr. Caley often informed me, that such locality was selected by the Treasury and the Woods and Forests, in consequence of the Record Board perpetually pressing upon Government, not only that the recommendation of the Select Committee of 1800, respecting the providing of fit repositories for the records of the Kin^^'s Remembrancer's Office had been wholly neglected, but that^hose records, being lodged in '' the ark,'' were in an infinitely more perilous condition than when the Report of 1800 was made : for at that time they were in the twelve rooms, m which they had been placed under the direction of the Committee for improving the approaches to the Houses of Lords and Com- mons. . , I, 988. Q. Was it not obvious that these six rooms were wholly inadequate to contain the large series of the King s Remem- brancer's records?— A. Yes; but all representations on that subject, Mr. Caley told me, were in vain. The large series of records, such as the Memoranda Rolls, the Originalia, &c., were left in the wooden shed. The mass of unsorted miscellaneous records shared the same fate. 989. Q. In answer to Question 4454. Mr. Cole, after stating that the records in the Stone Tower are subject to dust but not to damp, says, " The cellar under the Stone Tower is like a « dungeon, without lights, and the windows of the cellar are not Miscellaneous Evidence. 203 " even glazed." Are there not two cellars under this tower ? — A. Yes. 990. Q. The Port Books, of which the Committee of the House of Commons, in 1800, advised the destruction, are de- posited in them ? — A. Yes. 991. Q. It being suspected that, by reason of the confusion that had been occasioned by the frequent removals of the King's Remembrancer's records, some Household Books of an antient date had become mixed with these Port Books; did not the present Board cause them to be examined? — A. It did; and several Household Books, and, I believe, some few other valuable records were found. 992. Q. There are no Household Books in these cellars at pre- sent ? — A. There are some of little or no value at the entrance to one of the cellars. When the workmen have made a little more progress with the more important miscellaneous records of the King's Remembrancer's Office, the Board intends to have these cellars cleaned out, and these Household Books removed ; that is to say, unless the King's Remembrancer should throw any ob* stacle in the way of such an operation. 993. Q. In the examination of Mr. Cole (Question 4456), the Chairman quotes an account given by Mr. Protheroe of the state of the cellars under the Stone Tower: — " In two cells on the " ground floor, in the western tower of Westminster Hall, are a " mass of records, the nature of which is but partially known ; " they are only to be seen by a small portion of light let in by a " lancet window, and that is unglazed and admits a larger portion " of dirt. These records are literally covered with filth." Where is this account of Mr. Protheroe to be found ?— A. It is to be found in the printed Agenda of the present Board. 994. Q. Was it not inserted by you in the Agenda in order to call the attention of the Commissioners to these two cellars and the records deposited in them?— A. It was. Mr. Protheroe visited the Stone Tower at my request, in order to enable me to give a correct description of the cellars and their contents. 995. Q. This was in June 1833?— A. It was. 996. Q. And in the autumn of that year Mr. Robert Thompson ^ by the direction of the Board, examined the Port Books? — A. Yes ; in consequence of that description. 997. Q. The records of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer were, in 1800, in some rooms in a house at Somerset Place? — Ai Yes. 998. Q. Shortly afterward they were removed into their pre- sent repository, in the vaults under the east side of Somerset House ? — A. They were. 204 Miscellaneous Evidence, Miscellaneous Evidence, 205 "y f 999. Q. Has not the present Board repeatedly urged upon Government and the Treasury the impropriety of leaving them in such a locality? — A. Yes. 1000. Q. Were not the Pipe Records formerly kept at West- minster ?— A. All the antient Rolls of the Pipe, and some other records of the office, were kept there. 1001. Q. Were not the Great Rolls kept in wainscot and deal presses, and arranged in chronological order upon shelves? — A. Yes. Madox, in his " Disceptatio Epistolaris'' upon the Roll commonly called the .Oth of Stephen, addressed to Lord Somers, gives a verbal description of the manner in which the rolls were arranged in these presses, which he illustrates by two prints of a copper plate.* 1 will read his description. He first of all de- scribes the form of the rolls. " Hie Magnus Rotulus (seu lit vocamus Bundellum) consistit Rotulis peramplis sedecini ; ex utraque parte conscriptis j et file pergamenaceo in capite sive sumnio consutis. Singuli Rotuli totius fasciculi non sunt vel longitudine vel latitudine ad auiussim aquales. Sed permistim longi sunt sive alti (nempe a sumrao ad imum) quatuor pedes circiter, et lati pedem plus minus unum. Quilibet Rotulus duabus praelargis raembranis constat ; nisi si qua forte avulsa perijt ; sicut in bundelli Rotulo Quarto fit; cujus una membrana (id est Rotuli pars dimidia) perijt, altera superest. Facies loci in quo Magni Rotuli antedicti asservantur, aeri incisa in fronte hujus Dissertationis et in hac pagina visitur. Ob oculos ho- minum posui venerabundus. Sane delineatu dignara censuit monuitque me V. C. Johannes Talman, junior, architecturae et graphices peritissi- mus, summaque mihi necessitudine conjunctus. Illius monitis facile obtemperans, delineari atque aeri incidi curavi : ut posteris aliquatenus jnnotescant sacrorum Rotnlorum forma ac situs. Haec autem est figurse illius aeneae mens : Capsa inscripta numero I. continet ordines sive abacos decem ; in quibus conduntur Magni Rotuli qui hodie extant vetustissimi : hac nimirum serie : abacus primus, sive a solo altissimus, continet Mag- num Rotulum ilium de anno Quinto R. Stephani vulgo dictum, aliosque septendecim ; nam fingo Quintum Stephani eum esse qui in mensa ex- pansus jacet : abacus ejusdem capsae secundus continet Magnos Rotulos quindecim, scilicet reliquos quotquot hodie supersunt R. Henrici II. j nam Magnus Rotulus illius Regis Primus itemque Octavus desideran- tur: abacus tertius habet Magnos Rotulos decem R. Ricardi I., duosque primos R. Johannis : quartus reliquos R. Johannis : quintus priores Magnos Rotulos R. Henrici III. : sextus alijque habent alios ejusdem Regis ac R. Edwardi I. In summa, capsa II., III., et l\\, complectuntur Magnos Rotulos Regum ordine succedentium." 1002. Q. Do you know where the records of the Clerk of the Pipe were kept, and what was their general condition, at any period later than the publication of the work of Madox? — See the Supplement, wheie a lithograph of the plate is inserted. A. Yes : the Report of the Committee of the House, relating to the Cottonian Library, gives a pretty full account. We learn thence that the Great Rolls, made up from the time of King Stephen (as was then supposed) to King James II., did for the most part still lie in good method and order, as in the time of Madox, in wainscot presses in the Court of Exchequer at Westminster ; — that, smce that time, the Great Rolls were lodged in the Pipe Office in Gray's Inn, in good plight and order, ready to be car- ried to the Exchequer at Westminster, when any convenience of- fered to put them in ; — that the former accounts, before the year 1688, were not many ;— that part of them was made up in large rolls, and part was promiscuously thrown into chests at the Ex- chequer at Westminster ; — that the series of records of leases from the beginning of the reign of King James I., was kept at the Loan Office in Gray's Inn ;— that the state and condition of the office in his Majesty's Court of Exchequer at Westminster, was not one of good repair; the rain, sinking through the ceiling, having damaged several records ; and that the presses containing the Great Rolls were very old. 1003. Q. This was in 1732?-'A. Yes. 1004. Q. In 1800 the Pipe Records were in the attics of So- merset House? — A. They were. 1005. Q. They are now in the vaults under the east side of Somerset House ?--A. Yes : except the most antient and valuable, which were some time ago removed, under the direction of the Board, to a room on the north side of Somerset House, which, although in the basement, is light, well ventilated, and free from damp. 1006. Q. Can you state to the Committee how it was that the valuable records of the Pipe and of the Lord Treasurer's Re- membrancer found their way into these vaults ?— A. In 1/93 it became necessary to remove the buildings where the records, both of the Clerk of the Pipe and of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer, were deposited, in order to improve the approach to the two Houses of Parliament : directions were given that the same should be placed temporarily in apartments in Somerset House, some of which were then intended for the Surveyor General of Crown Lands ; it being intimated that the repositories intended for these records were not perfectly fitted up. The records of the Pipe and of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer were transported accordingly ; the Surveyor of the House of Commons urging expedition. 1007. Q. They were not brought at once into the vaults .' — A. No. Sir William Chambers was, I believe, then Surveyor General. He represented that certain arched vaults in Somerset 206 Miscellaneous Evidence, Miscellaneous Evidence. 207 Place had been constructed to receive records; that such vaults would be the proper repositories for the records in ques- tion, all possible care having been taken to make them dry ; and that the same would be very soon fitted up with presses. 1(X)8. Q. Did not Sir W. Chambers also state that part of such arched vaults was intended to be the receptacle of the re- cords of his own office? — A. Yes. 1009. Q. Did these records remain in the apartments in which they were first placed ?— A. No. The Lord Treasurer's Remem- brancer's records remained in the same locality until 1796. About that time the part of the building, in which those records were, was allotted for the Duchy of Cornwall Office ; and these records were, in consequence, transferred to the rooms in the house adjoining the Remembrancer's apartments : the same were there in 1800. The Pipe Records do not seem to have changed their situation between 1793 and 1800. 1010. Q. When the arched vaults were ready for the reception of the records, was any opposition made to the deposit? — A. Yes : it was represented by the Deputy of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer, that, upon a careful examination of the vaults, the arches and walls were found to be so damp that, if the records were placed therein, there was reason to fear that they would be totally destroyed ; and the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer there- upon applied to the Lords of the Treasury, remonstrated against the contemplated deposit of his records in vaults, and strongly urged that suitable apartments might be assigned for them. 1011. Q. Had not these vaults been surveyed by a Committee of the House of Commons? — A. I have understood that they were surveyed, by the Committee appointed to inquire into a me- thod of making the approach to the Houses of Parliament more convenient; and that Committee deemed the vaults damp and improper for the purpose, in the state in which they then were. 1012. Q. Subsequently to this survey made by the Committee of the House of Commons, the vaults were fitted up by Sir Wil- liam Chambers, all possible care having been taken to make them dry? — A. Yes: but the application and remonstrance of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer produced a re-consideration of the matter. It seems then to have been admitted that there was doubt whether Sir William Chambers had put the vaults in a state proper to receive the records ; and it was proposed that certain alterations should be made, by letting more air into the vaults, and drying them by fines: but after all, it was said that time and experience alone would show whether such alterations would produce the eflFect desired. 1013. Q. Is there not, in the Appendix to the Report of the Select Committee of the House of Commons, a plan of the vaults originally intended by Sir William Chambers to receive these records, showing the mode of ventilating and warming them? — A. Yes. 1014. Q. That Plan is No. I ?— A. Yes. 1015. Q. Was not Mr. Wyatt called upon to report to the Select Committee of 1800, whether it was advisable to carry into execution this plan of Sir William Chambers? — A. Yes: Mr. Wyatt reported as follows : — " The places originally intended by Sir William Chambers are those in the Plan, No. 1., and though deemed unfit for the purpose, naturally led to endeavour to make them otherwise ; and were they to be con- structed according to the plan which accompanied this " (Mr. Wyatt's Report), *' marked No. 1, there can be no doubt but they would answer the purpose ; however, as so many objections have been made, and diffi- culties arisen respecting the business, it occurred, that upon a farther survey of Somerset Place, some other situation might be found perhaps less objectionable.'* Mr. Wyatt then suggested that the vaults under the street, on the east side of Somerset Place, were very applicable to the pur- pose of depositing in perfect security all the Records of the Pipe Office and the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer's Oftice, if done according to a plan which he laid before the Committee, and which may be seen in the Appendix to the Report of the Select Committee, (it is No. 2). Mr. Wyatt went on to say— " There is sufficient height in these vaults to put a false roof, properly slated or leaded, to prevent any damp over the records, and [this] will be necessary (as the vaults are not leaded underneath the street) ; and it is intended also that air-flues as well as fire-flues should be in- troduced, in the way they are described in the Plan No. 1, under the floors, for the purpose of keeping them perfectly dry, and by that means totally prevent any damp from the ground, which perhaps might other- wise arise. The same method may be adopted respecting the lining of the walls, as described in the Plan No. 1. With all these precautions, and the advantage of good light and thorough air, (which every vault may have in free succession), there cannot exist a doubt about the eligibility of the situation. Their immediate connection with the offices to which the different repositories may belong, removes the objection (and perhaps the principal one) to the situation of those in Plan No. 1. The length of time it might take to prepare these repositories fit for the reception of the records, will depend in some measure upon the season of the year ; if they were soon begun, they might be completed shortly after Michael- mas next." {Reports, 1800, p. 136.) 1016. Q. These vaults are the vaults in which the records are now deposited?— A. Yes. And if you will take the trouble to refer to the Plan No. 1, you will find it stated, that there was to «08 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence. 209 ( I be near the walls of the repositories a lining of brick on the edge, detached from the wall, to prevent damp; that windows were to be opened into the areas, for the purpose of giving thorough air ; that flues were to be carried under the pavement, betwixt the racks on which the records are placed ; that, underneath the remainder of the floor of each record room, small brick flues were to be made to communicate with the external air, so that a constant current might be perpetually passing through them, and detach the pavement of the floor from the damp of the earth ; that the flues for the smoke should be separated from the air flues, on each side, by a brick edgeways, which would heat the air in those flues; and that air, when heated, would be discharged into the repositories through holes in the pavement, &c. 1017. Q. The Select Committee of 1 800 approved of this plan of Mr. VVyatt's? — A. Yes: and reported that it was about to be carried into execution. The day that the Report was presented by Mr. Abbott, a Return was made by Mr. Wyatt to the Com- mittee, which is printed in the Appendix to the Report. In that Return Mr. Wyatt states, — " I have received directions from the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury, to carry into execution that part of my plan for the record-offices in Somerset Place which relates to the accommodation of the Auditors* Office, Pipe, and Treasurer's Remembrancer's Office, which plan accompanies this Return ; and I shall proceed to begin upon the execution of this plan in the course of the ensuing week j and it may take perhaps three or four months to complete it." {Ibid.) • 1018. Q. The Chairman says, addressing Mr. Illingworth, in reference to what is called a Report of his, " It is stated therein " that they" (the Pipe Rolls) " were kept in damp vaults under *' the eastern wing of Somerset House; those vaults were origi- " nally deemed by the Government as damp and dark, and im- •' proper for their reception ; in consequence whereof air and fire- •* flues were introduced under the floor and round the walls, for the purpose of keeping the records dry, and preventing the damp from the ground, which, instead of remedying the evil, you say, from long experience, that the situation has become still more objectionable, the records being alternately damp and dry; damp when the flues are unlighted, and dry again when " the air is admitted and the fire lighted ; farther, you complain *' of the rooms being so dark that it is impossible to read a record, " or even its label, and that the cold is so great, that, in winter or " summer, no person could remain therein half an hour without " the risk of losing his life." Mr. Illingworth answers," Losing " his life is going a little too far perhaps." The Chairman then says, " In consequence of that statement, are you aware that any (( ti ft a n " steps were taken to remove those records into a better situation?" Mr. iningworth replies : ** No : I do not. I will only say that '* very early, when acting under the Commission, I was there an ** hour and a half transcribing an instrument, and 1 had the rheu- " matism so bad, that I did not get out of my bed for a week." Now, are not the vaults here mentioned the same that were fitted up by Mr. Wyatt, for the reception of the records of the Offices of the Pipe and the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer, upon the plan approved by the Report of the Select Committee of the House of Commons of 1800? — A. Yes. 1019. Q. You have already stated that the present Board has repeatedly urged, upon Government and the Treasury, the impro- priety of leaving the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer's records in this locality. Has not the Board been equally urgent on the sub- ject of the records of the Pipe? — A. Yes. 1020. Q. Is not the passage stated by the Chairman, from what he calls a Report of Mr. Illingworth, taken from a document printed by the Board for the express purpose, among other things, of drawing attention to the objectionable nature of this repository? — A. Yes. J021. Q. Is not this same passage quoted in your compilation on the Public Records (vol. i. p. 317), which was printed by the order of the Board ? — A. Yes. 1022. Q. Did not the Commissioners, in the year 1832, print a Letter of Mr. Illingworth with this view? — A. Yes : they did. The Letter is dated the 7th of July 1832. The following is an extract from it : — *' I had occasion, on the 1 6tli [of] May and the 25th [of] June, to exa- mine several Pipe Rolls of the reigns of Edward I., II. and III. for the counties of York and Kent 5 when I perceived the parchment of two or three entire rolls so exceedingly damp, I was apprehensive of taking cold in my hands, being at the time afflicted with rheumatic pains. I mentioned the circumstance to Mr.Panton, jun. and Mr. Foxton, who both satisfied themselves of the fact 3 and our united opinion was, that those rolls ought not to be restored to their place of deposit, till they were sufficiently dried by an exposure to the sun and air. I do not intend to say all the rolls are in that state ; far otherwise : yet I am decidedly of opinion, for the reasons stated in my Observations on the Public Records, p. 49, that the place where these rolls are kept is not calculated for their preservation." 1023. Q. In your compilation on the Public Records, is there not a notice of an order for the removal of the Pipe Rolls from these vaults? — A. Yes. Orders had been obtained for the re- moval of both the records of the Pipe and those of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer. The notice in my compilation is as follows : — 210 Miscellaneous Evidence, Miscellaneous Evidence, 211 I '* His Majesty's Government, by the desire of the present Commis- sioners on the Public Records, has lately given orders for the removal of these invaluable records to a place better adapted to their preservation, and where they may be consulted without inconvenience. When this measure shall be accomplished, steps will be taken for the examination of these rolls by competent persons ; and it is probable the most important portion will be transcribed and printed, and our national history protected from the irreparable injury it would sustain, in case of their destruction by time or by accident." (Vol. II. p. 317.) 1024. Q. To what repository had it been ordered that these records should be removed ? — A. To the west wing of the King's Mews. 1025. Q. Why did not that removal take place? — A. Because the Government declared an intention of granting building leases of the whole area upon which that edifice stood. This intention was only abandoned when Parliament had sanctioned the scheme of appropriating such area to the National Gallery. 1026. Q. Had not the Committee of the Record Commis- sioners, which was appointed, in May 1 83 1, to take into considera- tion the expediency of removing any of the records from the exist- ing repositories, and whether it would be expedient to provide repositories for the records to be so removed, recommended that no time should be lost in preparing the west wing of the Mews, to receive the important records then in the vaults of Somerset House? — A. Yes. The Committee of the Record Board had so recommended ; and the Secretary, having received proper in- structions, addressed the Treasury, with the view of having that recommendation carried into effect. 1027. Q. The result is shown in the passage cited from your compilation? — A. Yes. 1028. Q. Did not the late Master of the Rolls (Sir John Leach), when he found that the locality of the Mews was unavailable, pro- pose that the records of the Pipe and of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer, in the vaults under the eastern side of Somerset House* should be removed to the second floor of the Rolls House? — A. Yes. 1 have, if I mistake not, spoken in former parts of my Evidence, of the removal of the King's Bench Records in the old Treasury at Westminster to the Rolls House, Chancery Lane. The removal of the records of the Pipe and of the Lord Trea- surer's Remembrancer was to have taken place at the same time ; but it was not found practicable to provide accommodation in the Rolls House for these last records. I had numerous inter- views with Sir John Leach on the subject. 1029. Q. The consequence was, that the bulk of such records remained in the vaults? — A. Yes: with the exception of the records removed, by order of the Board, to the room on the north side of Somerset House. 1030. Q. You had much correspondence with the Office of Woods and Forests upon these matters ? — Yes. 1031. Q. As long ago as July 1831, the Board had proposed that the records in the vaults at Somerset House should be trans- ported to the west wing of the King's Mews ? — A. Yes : before that time. 1032. Q. You expressed adoubt whether the Rolls House would be capable of containing the records in the vaults of Somerset House, as well as those in the King's Bench Treasury? — A. Yes: that was about July or August 1 83 1 . I told General Stephenson that, if such should turn out to be the case, those records must be placed in the Mews. 1033. Q. Was that locality still open? — A. 1 do not recollect that it was. It must have been considered that we were not ex- cluded from all chance of obtaining the west wing of the Mews. 1034. Q. Were the papers of the Commissioners for auditing the Public Accounts lodged in the same vaults with the records of the Pipe and of the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer? — A. No : provision was made for their reception elsewhere. 1035. Q. In 1800, a considerable number of those papers was in certain vaults under the buildings in Somerset Place ? — A. \ es : the Report of 1 800 so states. The vaults are particu- larly described in the Return of the Auditors in the Appendix to that Report. 1036. Q. How long did the records of the Auditor of Land Revenue for England continue in the buildings described in the Appendix to the Report of 1800? — A. Those buildings were pulled down when the erection of the new Courts was com- menced, in 1822. The records were then carried into *' the ark," in the Hall ; whence, after a long abode, they travelled to the Bail Court, and afterwards to the Mews : their subsequent journey appears from former parts of my Evidence. 1037. Q. And the records of the Office of Land Revenue for Wales, how long did they continue in that room within a few yards of the Thames, and into which every high tide brought the water, more or less, although the floor had been considerably raised to keep it dry? — ^A. Until the night of the Fire, \G October 1834. 1038. Q. In the Proceedings of the Board are there not vari- ous passages respecting the records of the Land Revenue for England and for Wales? — A. Yes. Such passages are taken from Returns made to the Commissioners, or from information obtained by the Secretary. I will read some passages as to the changes in the locality of these records. Miscellaneous Evidence, 212 " Records of the Auditors of the Land Revenue for England,— The rooms over the Exchequer Chamber were pulled down some years smce in the execution of a plan for erecting new Courts communicatmg with Westminster Hall j and the records formerly lodged therem are now de- Dosited in the substantial building known as the King's Mews, where there is reason to hope they will at once be secure from damp and from fire. But the place appropriated to their reception, and partitioned ott from a spacious apartment occupied by another officer of the Exchequer Court affords but indifferent accommodation for inspecting the Auditor s records, and still less for pursuing any effectual means to recoverthem from the disorder into which they have been thrown by repeated and hurried removals. The records of more modern date, and those more frequently required, or more immediately connected with the current duties of the department, are retained in the house m Spring Gardens, occuDied by the Auditor's establishment, and are conveniently arranged, not only in reference to the transaction of official business, but also for the use of the public. There can be little doubt that those records, which have been bound up in volumes and preserved in the office building, have not suffered decay since the year 1 800 ; and the care and labour bestowed upon those which were cleaned, sorted, and arranged by Mr Richards and Mr. Hewlett, prevented the entire destruction into which many ot them were hastening ; but having since been twice removed, and exposed on those occasions to the summary means of access which builders and carpenters were enabled to employ, it can scarcely be expected that they should have escaped wholly unimpaired." {Proceedings, p. 269.) The foregoing is taken from a Return to the Board. The follow- ing is from the pen of the Secretary. " Records of the Auditor of the Land Revenue for Wales,— The records belonging to Uie late Office of the Auditor of the Land Revenue for Wales are still, as Mr. Wynn suggests, in the building in New Palace Yard • but the records of the late Office of the Auditors of the Land Revenue of England are not at Whitehall. These antient and valuable records were, in 1 800, in a building situated over the Exchequer Chamber, and upon the old Courts at Westminster being pulled down, they were placed in the wooden shed in the Hall : from this place it seems they were removed to the Bail Court j they are now in one of the bins at the King's Mews. No keeper of them has, it is believed, yet been appointed ; and if they are as wet and mouldy as were the King's Remembrancer s records, which lately occupied the other bins in the same depot, it is pretty certain the services of such an officer will never be wanted. 1 hese records, too, have not of late years yielded any fees: nor can the Secretary learn the locality of the records which the above cited Act* assumes will produce fees for the purposes therein mentioned. It is true, there are at Whitehall (Scotland Yard) various deeds, books, and writings belonging to the Office of Surveyor General ; but, with some exceptions, these have always been considered as the private muniments and evidences ot the estates belonging to the crown, and not o pen, as a matter of right, to the ♦ 2 Will. IV. c. 1. Miscellaneous Evidence. 213 inspection of the public ; and no search is permitted to be made among them without previous inquiry for wliat purpose it is intended, nor is any copy or inspection allowed in any case, where the object of it is dis- covered to have any tendency prejudicial to the rights or interests of the crown." {Proceedings, pp. 198 — 200.) 1039. Q. Have not Returns been made to the present Board from the College of Arms and the First Fruits Office ? — A. Only from the College of Arms. 1040. Q. What is said in that Return as to the building? — A. That its condition, as to its state of repair, has not improved during the last thirty years; the very small means, arising in part from the confiscation of fees and salaries, being the only sources from which the officers have (until very lately) had funds particu- larly applicable to repairs, and the amount arising even from such sources, having been so very limited, that those repairs only have been made which were absolutely necessary to preserve the build- ing from actual ruin; the funds derivable from the small annual income of the office being required for the payment of taxes, parochial rates, and other disbursements contingent upon the maintenance of the establishment; — that a fund was however created in 1820, by virtue of a Royal Warrant, directing the pay- ment of certain fees on the creation of peers and baronets to be applied, under the direction of the Earl Marshal, toward the re- paration and support of the College, and for the better security of the records therein deposited; — that this fund has notyetbedn, to any considerable extent, available for such objects ; but, in the course of the next twenty years, it may probably produce some equal to the purposes of a repair and extension of the library, which is now, and has long been, actually necessary ;— that in the mean time, the officers being left to their own resources, the building is proceeding rapidly to a state of decay, &c. ;-— that, in respect to its security, it is to be remarked that the imminent danger which threatened from the apprehension of fire, to which the library and records were formerly exposed from their con- tiguity to an adjoining sugar-house, had in some degree been re- moved ;— that, in the year 1822, Mr. Alderman Smith, on retiring from business, offered the sugar-house for sale ; when, to secure the records from the imminent peril to which they were hourly exposed, the College, by considerable sacrifices which very se- riously involved them for several years, purchased, at an expense of nearlv l600/., the said sugar-house, and pulled it down;— that the'^securitv of the building was, therefore, in some respect better, inasmuch as the danger arising from its former perilous situation was removed in a great degree, though the library, which was not fire-proof, was still surrounded by buildings;— -that the 214 Miscellaneous Evidence. ground upon which the sugar-house stood had been kept vacant, in order to continue such security as far as it could be ; whereby, however, the oflficers are deprived of any return for their expen- diture, which by leasing the ground for building might have been obtained, though of course in such case the danger would not have been in so great a degree diminished. 1041. Q. It seemed from all this that it was in vain that the Record Commissioners, by their General Report of 1819, agam called the public attention to the inconvenient and perilous state of the several buildings of the Exchequer of Receipt, which had pre- viously been so repeatedly but ineffectually brought under the notice of Parliament by Reports from Committees of the House of Commons, and from Commissioners appointed under various Acts of Parliament ? — A. Yes. It was impossible that the pre- sent Board could be blind to the want of result attending all these Reports. 1042. Q. Has not a Return been made from the First Fruits Office ? — A. No. A Return has been frequently applied for, but without success. We have no power to compel a Return ; but the Senior Clerk in the office has been examined before this Committee. The records are still in the chambers opposite to the Inner Temple Church. 1043. Q. It was in vain also, that the Commissioners men- tioned in their General Report of 1819, that the insecure state of the Office of First Fruits ought to be remedied without delay, on account of the valuable ecclesiastical records which it contains ? A. Yes. 1044. Q. And that the imminent hazard from fire, to which the Heralds' College was peculiarly exposed, required speedy and effectual interposition? — A. Yes. The representation upon the subject of the Heralds' College did not induce Parliament to interfere, to diminish this hazard from fire. What has been done there, we owe to the zeal and liberality of the gentlemen of that establishment. 1045. Q. Does not the Report of 1800 declare that the Com- mittee had seen, with satisfaction, the state of many of the Record Buildings, and the regularity of their internal arrangement ?— A. Yes. 1046. Q. Does not the Report particularize the Tower, the Chapter House, and the Rolls Chapel ? — A. Yes. 1047. Q. Did the present Board see the state and arrange- ment of these repositories with satisfaction, similar to that expe- lienced by the Select Committee of the House? — A. Certainly not : and yet during the thirty years that had elapsed since the Report of the Committee, great improvements had been eflfected w Miscellaneous Evidence. 213 in the state and arrangement of these offices. The view, taken by the present Board, of the Tower, Rolls Chapel, and Chapter House, much more resembles the view taken by the Select Com- mittee upon the Cottonian Library, than that taken by the Com- mittee of 1800. 1048. Q. What was the view, taken by the Committee upon the Cottonian Library, of these three repositories ?— A. The Committee reported that Caesar's Chapel was commodious, but that underneath were stores of gunpowder belonging to the Office of Ordnance ; that the records in the room over the Rolls Chapel were exposed too much to the heat of the sun in the summer season, and to dampness in the winter ; that the vaults under- neath the Chapter-House were said to be filled with spirituous liquors ; and that the brewhouses or washhouses, already men- tioned, had been lately erected adjoining. 1049. Q. Did not that Committee make any recommendation to the House respecting the providing of repositories for the Re- cords ? — A. Yes. The Committee thought it a duty to represent to the House, that the public interest was concerned in provid- ing more secure and decent repositories for the records of the kingdom. 1050. Q. And nothing followed upon this Report ? — A. No- thing. 1051. Q. Was not a Committee appointed in the year 1772, to examine the condition of the records of the kingdom, the re- positories wherein, and the manner in which they were then kept, and to consider of some proper method to be immediately taken to prevent the farther decay of the records at the Rolls f — A. Yes. 1052. Q. Did that Committee of the House of Commons examine the record repositories in general ? — A. No. They ex- amined only the Rolls Chapel. They state by their Report, that many of the records in the body of the Chapel were much de- cayed and partly obliterated, and the rest in danger of destruction, by being placed close to the walls ; the damps from which had penetrated through the backs of the presses wherein they were placed. They also reported that those in the room or garret over the said Chapel were continually receiving injuries, either from the rain, which often penetrated through the covering, or from intense heat in the summer season ; and that the weakness of the floor was such, as to be scarcely able to support the weight pf the records there. 1053. Q. What followed upon this Report ?— A The House addressed the Crown, that the Chapel might be repaired. It was repaired accordingly. 1054. Q. The present Board has found that the evils pointed out 216 Miscellaneous Evidence, by these aiitient Reports of the House of Commons still exist in the three repositories of the Tower, the Rolls Chapel, and the Chapter House ? — A. Yes : the Report of the Committee of the Board, dated May 1831, notices the danger to which the Chapter House was exposed, from a shed used as a washhouse, and from other buildings. A Memorial of the Master of the Rolls, read at the Board, in April 1831, refers to a statement of the Keeper of the Records in the Rolls Chapel, that the want of sufficient air and light, and other causes there enumerated (amongst which, it was understood, were those particularized in the Report of the Commons Committee of 1732,) are gradually tending to the de- struction of the records. A Letter of the Keeper of the Records at the Tower was read at the Board, in June 183'2, calling attention to the deposit of gunpowder in the vaults under Caesar's Chapel. The practice of placing gunpowder in store in those vaults had, if I recollect right, been for some time previously discontinued. 1055. Q. In the preface to the work compiled by you under the order of the Board, of the 22d of August 1831, is it not stated that, from a comparison of the present contents of the record-offices with the numerous calendars framed during the course of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, it would appear that ** many thousands have decayed and perished in the cata- combs in which they were entombed?" — A. Yes. 1056. Q. Do you not there propose that the records of a cer- tain age and description should be concentrated in some reposi- tory of convenient access, to be erected after the manner of the General Register House at Edinburgh ? — A. I do. 1057. Q. And that documents chiefly literary and historical should be separated from those of a purely legal character, and that the former should be transferred to the Museum ? — A. Yes. 1058. Q, Was it not proposed, at the Board of the 30th of June 1832, that the series of Chancellor's Rolls, being the dupli- cate of the Great Roll of the Pipe, should be transferred to the British Museum ? — A. Yes. 1059. Q. Has not that proposal been carried into effect? — A. It has. [See the Supplement.] 1060. Q, In the preface to the work already mentioned, do you not state that the more modern and bulky records, to which reference is most frequently made, should be preserved in some place adjoining the offices where the daily business of the Courts, to which they belong, is ordinarily transacted ? — A. I do. 1061. Q. Do you not suggest that the Rolls Estate presents a most convenient situation for a General Record Office, and that it would not be difficult to show that that extensive property 15 capable of aflfording sites, not only for a General Record Office, Miscellaneous Evidence, 217 but for two Equity Courts, Chambers for the Judges, &c. ? — A. I do. 1062. Q. When did the Board first draw the attention of Go- vernment to the plan of building a General Record Office upon the Rolls Estate? — A. In the month of April 1831, immediately after the Commission was issued. 1063. Q. In the instructions, then, which the Lords of the Treasury were, in the course of the year 1831, requested by the Commissioners to give to the Surveyor General, relative to So- merset House and other repositories, regard was to be had to this plan for a General Record Office? — A. Yes. Forinstance, at the Board holden on the lOth of June 1831, after the resolution, that application should be made, that the Surveyor General should be instructed to survey certain repositories, it is added : — " It being stated that a plan for the erection of a General Record Office, and of Chambers for the Judges, on the site of the Rolls Garden or Estate, is under the consideration of His Majesty's Govern- ment, the Commissioners desire that the Surveyor General may be instructed to report upon the matters above-mentioned with reference to such plan." 1064. Q. No steps were taken in Parliament, in the course of the year 1831, for carrying this plan into execution ? — A. None : and at the late Lord Dover's suggestion, in the following year, with the view of drawing public attention to the subject, was printed the Tract entitled ** A Proposal for the Erection of a General Record Office, Judges' Hall and Chamhers, and other Buildings, on the site of the Rolls Estate, together with some particulars respecting the Suitors* Fund." (1832, 8vo.) 1065. Q. The Suitors' Fund was to be rendered available for the execution of that proposal ? — A. Yes, it was. 1066. Q. In that proposal is it not stated that, in 1823, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Rt. Hon. N. Vansittart, visited the Tower for the purpose of ascertaining what accommodation could be afforded to a gentleman employed under the Record Board, by enlarging the Record Office? — A. Yes. 1067. Q. Is it not also stated that the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer was so impressed with the extreme inconvenience of the present premises, that he would hardly consider whether any addition could be made to them ; that it was his opinion, that it would be a waste of money to attempt to improve them, and that a proper building ought to be immediately erected in some more accessible part of the metropolis, capable of uniting and contain- ing all the national records ? — A. Yes. 1068. Q. Is it not in that proposal announced, that the Com- missioners of Woods and Forests had just given notice that the 218 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence. £19 ^f immense masses of records belonging to the King's Remembran- cer's Office, and to the Court of Common Pleas, then deposited in the eastern wing of the King's Mews, must be removed before Lady-day, 1833; and that King's College was impatient to take possession of the cellars under the eastern wing of Somerset House, in which the Pipe Rolls (the most valuable records after Domesday) had been so long suffered to moulder ; and that all attempts to induce the Ordnance to remove the magazine of gunpowder, deposited in the vaults of Caesar's Chapel, in which the most precious of the Chancery Records were preserved, had proved abortive ? — A. Yes. . 1069. Q. Had the publication of that proposal any beneficial result? — A. No immediate beneficial result. The Board, how- ever, never lost sight of the plan. At the Board of the 2(ith of November, 1832, a letter from Lord Dover to the Speaker was read; in which he stated that he had consulted Mr. Deering, whose merits as an architect must probably be well kno\yn to many of the Commissioners, in order to ascertain the capabilities of tiie Rolls Estate for containing the buildings proposed to be erected on it, the probable expense of such buildings, and the manner in which public records might be best arranged in an edi- fice especially devoted to their preservation ;— that Mr. Deering had, in consequence, executed several ground plans, which, if the Commissioners would inspect, his lordship thought they would approve of;— that Mr. Deering had also made an elevation of the proposed building, which seemed to combine beauty with utility and economy;— that in executing these, which had been entirely done at his own risk and expense, Mr. Deering had consulted the judges and the serjeanls, (with whom his lordship also had had various communications,) with a view of combining with his plan the erection of Judges' Chambers, &c. ;— that his lordship under- stood that those learned persons were entirely satisfied with the accommodations provided for them in Mr. Deering's plan ; and that, in consequence of his lordship's unavoidable absence from the Board, Mr. Ker had kindly undertaken to bring the subject of the new Record Office under its notice. At the same Board, a letter from Mr. Bellenden Ker to the Secretary was read; in which, after stating his inability to attend, he requested the Secretary to inform the Commissioners that he had seen Mr. Deering, and examined his plans; but that before he, Mr. Ker, could make any proposal to the Board, it would be requisite to see Mr. Deering again, and to take some steps to ascertain the value of the interests in the existing leaseholds on the Master of the Rolls Estate, and also to ascertain whether there was any objection to removing the Rolls Chapel, which would in fact (when the house of the Master of the Rolls was pulled down) be nearly useless; and that a small chapel might be retained, either as a separate building, or as part of the Record Office, to contain the existing monuments. 1070. Q. Did not the Master of the Rolls, at that Board of the 26th of November, 1832, move a resolution with a view to the execution of the plan for erecting a General Record Office? — A. Yes. That resolution is given in an early part of my exa- mination. At a Board holden in March 1833, a second letter from Mr. Bellenden Ker to the Secretary was read, in which he stated that, in consequence of Lord Dover's request, he had again seen Mr. Deering, and consulted with him on the plan ; and Mr. Ker sug- gested that it would be proper to make a rough estimate of the space which would be requisite, for all the records which it was proposed should be placed in the new building, and that it would be advisable to show, on the plan, that the site of the estate be- longing to the Rolls would afford sufficient space whereon to erect all buildings which might hereafter be requisite for containing records, &,c., including those offices which the contemplated changes would make requisite; (he alluded to the necessity of there being a general depository for Wills, assuming the Report of the Ecclesiastical Commission would be carried into effect, and a general Registry Office, assuming the Registry Bill should pass;) — that, from Mr. Deering's plan, it appeared that the site of the estate would be more than sufficient for all these buildings; — that it should, however, be observed, that the plan consisted of two parts; and that which was proposed to be built immediately occupied only the site of the present Rolls House and Garden, so that there would not be any loss as regards that part of the estate which is now under lease ; — that it would only be necessary to buy up the existing leases (which are for short terms) if the ground was required for the additional buildings; — that, as regards the part proposed to be first built, there would still be some ground unoccupied, on which it was proposed to erect chambers; and it was probable the ground would either let or sell very ad- vantageously for this purpose; — that, with respect to pulling down the Rolls House, he, Mr. Ker, supposed it was admitted that the present conversion of this into a depository for the records was merely temporary, particularly as the building was considered inconvenient, and not being fire-proof, was not safe; — that the firh part of the plan included a record-office (sufficient to hold all the records now scattered in different places) with the neces- sary offices for the attendants, &c. courts for the Master of the Rolls and for the Excheouer, and the Court of Review, chambers 220 Miscellaneous Evidence. for the Judges and the Examiners, and other necessary offices ; — that, conceiving that Mr. Deering could not effectually carry I^rd Dover's directions into effect until he knew the space occupied by the records in the different departments, he, Mr. Ker, had re- quested him to inspect them, and from his Report it would be seen that the building proposed to be first erected would be suffi- cient; — that nothing was said of the public convenience of having all the records in one place, or of the propriety of the plan, or whether it would be more economical to retain a part of the pre- sent buildings; all which matters would be for the decision of the Commissioners ; he, Mr. Ker, having only conferred with Mr. Deering, as to the mode in which the plan suggested by Lord Dover might be carried into effect;— that he should add, that he believed the object proposed had the sanction of the Chancellor ; — that the money requisite might be taken from the Suitors Fund ;— and that he, Mr. Ker, had seen Lord Althorp on the subject, who said he saw no objection on the part of the Govern- ment to the scheme, if it came recommended by the Commis- missioners ; in which case he desired a Report to be made to the Treasury. At the Board holden on the 27th of April 1833, a representation was produced, drawn up by Mr. Prolheroe in the name of the Commissioners, stating the inexpediency of an immediate demo- lition of the Mews, both with respect to the preservation of the records and the expense ; — that the recent removal of records, from the wooden shed in Westminster Hall to the King s Mews, had cost 1500Z. ; — that the money since spent in arranging these re- cords would be in great part thrown away ; — that the expenses of removals of the records to temporary places of deposit, during the last fourteen years, amounted to 10,000/.; which sum would have gone far toward providing a permanent place of deposit ; — that the records suffered grievous injury by such removals; — that any farther removal at that moment must put a stop to the operation of examining and sorting, in the course of which documents, affording curious and important illustrations of our history and constitution, were daily discovered ; and that it must also, for a long time, put a stop to all searches ; — that the Mews ought to be left standing, and devoted to the accommodation of such records as might require immediate removal from other offices; — that although the Mews were not, for several reasons, adapted as a permanent repository, yet the same offered advantages and accom- modation for a short period not to be found in any other build- ing ; — that the other wing of the building would afford most ac- ceptable accommodation for the records which were threatened with removal from Somerset House j— that to this building might ^ Miscellaneous Evidence. 221 also be removed the records in the lower cellars of the Towers of Westminster Hall;— and that the Board had, under its considera- tion, a project of erecting a General Depository of Records on the Rolls Estate, with money derived from the Suitors' Fund. 1071. Q. This representation was ordered to be transmitted to the Treasury?— A. Yes; and it was so transmitted on the 1st of May 1833. o * vt • 1072. Q. Did you receive any answer? — A. iNot imme- diately. On the 4th of September 1833 I received a letter from Colonel Stewart, stating that, in consequence of the above repre- sentation, the Lords of the Treasury had consented to suspend for that year the removal of the records ; and farther, in reference to the last paragraph in such representation on the subject of the Rolls Estate, that any feasible plan which the Board could sug- gest for erecting a General Depository of Records, without ex- pense to the public, must meet with their Lordships' entire con- currence ; and urging the adoption of measures without delay, which might bring the plans of the Board to maturity ; as, although a temporary arrangement had been made, by which sufficient space would be preserved in the Mews for the preservation of the re- cords there, the entire removal of that building could not be deferred to any distant period. , . i i r 1073. Q. Was not a Board summoned in the month ot January 1834, for the express purpose of considering the steps to be taken for ensuring the execution, in the ensuing session of Parliament, of the project for erecting a General Record Office on the Rolls Estate?— A. Yes; and this letter of Colonel Stewart was then read. Mr. Serjeant Adams attended the Board, on the part of a Committee appointed to make arrangements for building new Chambers for the Judges. 1 had long been in communication with him on that subject. He has been much more fortunate than myself. The Board of which we are speak- ing was summoned by the desire of Sir John Leach ; and the Resolution passed at it was penned by his honour. 1074. Q. What was that Resolution ?— A. The following :— " Resolved— That it is expedient, for the due preservation of the records now kept in one wing of the King's Mews, Charing Cross and in the vaults on the east side of Somerset House, that a proper building be forthwith erected for their reception ; and, his honour the Master of the Rolls consenting that the Rolls Garden, Chancery Lane, be applied for the purpose, after appropriating space on the south end thereof for new Chambers for the Judges,-the Secretary is directed to make a communication to that effect to the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, and to suggest that it is the opinion of the Boai^ that the money requi- site for the new building, to contain such records, should be taken from 2M Miscellaneous Evidence, the Suitors* Fund in Chancery ; and the Secretary is to request that the Treasury will appoint some person to communicate with the Master of the Rolls as to the site of such building, and to make a plan and esti- mate of such proposed building, with an instruction that it may be so constructed as to be capable of enlargement as occasion may require." 1075. Q. After this Resolution was passed, were you not in constant communication with Sir John Leach, as to the best mode of carrying it into effect? — A. Yes, I was. But Sir John Leach himself communicated directly upon the subject, both with the Treasury and with the Office of Woods and Forests. 1 well recollect that, about Easter 1834, he told me that Lord Duncan- non, as Chief Commissioner of Land Revenue, had, upon his recommendation, agreed to appoint Mr. Deering to communicate with him (the Master of the Rolls) as to the spot in the Rolls Garden to be selected for the contemplated General Record Office, and to make a plan and estimate. , 1076. Q. In May 1834, had not Sir John Leach settled the Bill proposed to be brought in for erecting a General Record Office on the site of the Rolls Garden I — A. He settled it about the end of that month. On the 1 4th of May he wrote to me, stating that the proper course to be pursued with the intended Record Office in the Rolls Garden, was, to appoint a Committee to settle Mr. Deering's plans ; and his honour added that he should readily act as one of that number, and trusted that Mr. Deering would be in London, to give the Committee a meeting, in the course of the next week. Witli respect to the Bill to be brought into Parliament, he entirely approved of the Secretary's suggestion that tixed salaries should be given to the officers, and that it should be left to the Record Commissioners to make such regulations as they might think expedient, to facilitate the access of the public to the records. Sir John Leach added — " May it not be a prudent measure, to give power to the Commissioners to negotiate for the purchase of Mr. Kipling's Indexes at the Rolls, and to pay the price out of the Suitors' Fund?" 1077. Q. This letter of Sir John Leach mentions the purchase of private indexes ? — Yes : the existence of which, although in the early part of this investigation it excited much surprize, has been recognized by Committees of the House of Commons for more than a century. 1078. Q. Has not the purchase of such private indexes been recommended ? — A. Undoubtedly, as I might recommend to any one the purchase of an estate, knowing that he has not a dump in his purse. The Select Committee of 1732 gave, in their Appen- dix, if I recollect well, the account of some indexes to the Rolls Chapiel Records carried away by one William Grymes, a Miscellaneous Evidence, 223 clerk in the office, under the pretence that, having been made by him, they were his private property. It turned out that they had been made by Mr. Halsted and Mr. Iron- monger, or some other of Mr. Grymes*s predecessors; and the indexes were ultimately recovered, in a suit instituted by Sir John Trevor, Master of the Rolls, against the representatives of the said William Grymes. The Committee of J 732, nevertheless, recognized the existence of private indexes. In its Report is recommended " the purchase of such abstracts and indexes of the public records as are the properly of private persons." 1079. Q. Is there not a similar recommendation in the Report of the House of Commons Committee of 1800? — A. Yes. Among their farther measures they recommend that those ca- lendars and indexes, " which are the private property of the officer, should be purchased for the public use, and appropriated to the office." They add — '* Of this description the Keeper of the Records at the Rolls Chapel has not fewer than fifty, the greater part of which he purchased from his predecessor's representatives; they relate to the Patent, Close and Fine Rolls, from whence their importance is evident. The Keeper of the Records in the Augmentation Office has several useful indexes, which he also claims to be his private property ; and the present Secondary and Clerk of the Rules in the Crown Office of the Court of King's Bench, have, as their private property, several indexes connected with the records of that office, which it would be desirable to appropriate to the use of the officers for the time being." {Reports^ 1800, p. 11.) 1080. Q. The House of Commons has never assigned any funds for the purchase of any private indexes of this kind? — A. Not a doit, from 1 732 to the present time. 1081. Q. Had you not the advice and assistance of other members of the Board, besides Sir John Leach, with reference to the Bill for the erection of a General Record Office ? — A. Yes. Principally I had the advantage of the advice and assistance of Mr. Bellenden Ker. 1082. Q. Did not Lord Duncannon give notice, in the House of Commons, that he should move for leave to bring in this Bill ? — A. Yes. The Bill was to have been brought in on the 14th of July 1834. Lord Duncannon moved, as Chief Commissioner of Land Revenue; but, being shortly afterward appointed Secretary of State for the Home Department, all further proceedings were ne- cessarily postponed until the next session of Parliament. ' 1083. Q. And in the interval Sir John Leach died? — Yes. I wrote to Lord Melbourne as soon as I heard of Sir John Leach's death, and suggested that the Rolls Estate should be omitted in the patent of his successor. This was in the long vacation. Be- 224 Miscellaneous Evidence. fore I received an answer, I met his lordship at Holland House ; and he told me that my letter had come too late, as the patent of Sir Charles Pepys had been already sealed. 1084. Q. The Bill, which Lord Duncannon was to have brought in, provided for the purchase of the private indexes to the records at the Rolls Chapel ? — A. Yes, it did. 1085. Q. Was it not proposed by the Bill to give to the Re- cord Board that authority which it is supposed that his Majesty's Commission cannot confer? — A. Yes. It was to be lawful for the Commissioners on the Public Records, and they were thereby required, from time to time as they should see occasion, to examine into, ascertain and settle the periods and hours of at- tendance of the keepers and clerks of the different public record- offices in the metropolis, at and in such offices respectively, and also the duties of the said keepers and clerks, and also the dis- tribution of the business of the said offices, and to make valid and effectual orders for the admission of any person or persons in the employment of the said Commissioners on the Public Records into such offices respectively, for the purpose of transcribing any of the said records, and for sorting, indexing, calendaring, repair- ing, binding, and generally for the safe custody of the said re- cords, and convenience of persons making searches at such offices respectively, and also for transferring any of the said records from one repository to another. 1086*. Q. By such Bill was it not also proposed to give, to the Record Board, power to fix the fees to be taken by the record- keepers and their clerks, in respect of all records of a date prior to the reign of George I H.? — A. Yes. It was to be lawful for the Commissioners on the Public Records, with the consent of the Lord High Treasurer, or the Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury for the time being, or any three or more of them, within a certain time after the passing of the Act, to fix and settle a table of fees, to be received and taken by the several keepers of the records of the said Courts of Chancery, King's Bench, Common Pleas, and Exchequer, and their clerks, and by the various other persons in whose custody the other public records in the metropolis are or ought to be deposited, and their clerks ; and that the said keepers and their clerks should and might there- after take and receive such fees, so as every such table of fees to be taken by the keepers of the Rolls Chapel and at the Chapter House be made with the consent of the Master of the Rolls for the time being: provided always, that the said table of fees should not relate to any records of a later date than the reign of his majesty King George II. And it was to be further enacted, that it should be lawful for the said Commissioners on the Public Miscellaneous Evidence, 225 Records, with such consent as last aforesaid, from time to time to direct that the several fees thereby authorized to be received and taken, or any of them, might be varied and increased, or reduced in amount, or wholly omitted to be received, as to them should seem fit, and as circumstances might require : provided that suffi- cient of such fees should be left to meet the demands thereby directed to be paid thereout. 1087. Q. The Keepers and their clerks were to have salaries instead of fees ? — A. Of course.* 1088. Q. When was the patent of Sir Charles Pepys sealed? — A. On the 27th of September 18,]4. 1089. Q. Was not the project of building a General Record Office upon the site of the Rolls Estate again brought before the Board, at the annual meeting on the 11th of April 1835? — A. Yes. 1090. Q. Upon that occasion you printed a tract entitled, Papers relative to the Project of Building a General Record Office^ with Plans ? — A. I did. And, in a few prefatory lines, I stated that the ensuing pages comprized the documents drawn up at different times under the sanction of the Board, together with every thing to be found in the Minutes of its Proceedings, con- nected with the project of building a General Record Office upon the site of the Rolls Estate, Chancery Lane ; and that the same wera printed for the convenience of the Commissioners who might be present at the annual meeting of the Board, which was to take place on Saturday, the 11th of April 1835. 1 added, that there had been much correspondence upon the same subject, which, however, was not there inserted ; partly as not having been entered on the Minutes, and partly as being unnecessary for the elucida- tion of any question that could arise. In order to draw attention to the matter, a copy of that tract was sent to every Member of Parliament. 1091. Q. What took place at this Board of the 11th of April 1835 ? — A. I will read the minute : — ** Plan for erecting a General Record Office vpon the site of the Rolls Estate, Produced — A small volume of Documents and Letters upon ibis subject, printed for the use of the Board. Also a Letter from Sir B. C. Stephenson, one of the Commissioners of Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues, dated the 21st day of March 1835. Ordered — That the Secretary do write to his honor the Master of the Rolls to inquire whether he has any objection to the plan of erecting a General Record Office upon the site of the Rolls Garden, as disclosed by the aforesaid printed documents and papers, conformably with the intention of Sir .lohn Leach, upon the understanding that his honor be compensated • There is a copy of the Bill in the Supplement. Q 226 Miscellaneous Evidence. Miscellaneous Evidence, 227 for the loss of the Rolls House as a residence, either by an increase of salary or by another habitation for the Master of the Rolls being pro- vided elsewhere 5 and if his honor should not be adverse to the execu- tion of the plan upon such condition, then the Secretary is to communi- cate to the Commissioners of Land Revenue, in reply to Genei;al Stephenson's letter, the recommendation of the Board, that a Bill similar to that of which a copy is printed amongst the above-mentioned papers, should be brought in, but with a clause for such compensation as is suggested." 1092. Q. What was the purport of the letter of General Stephenson here referred to?-—A. It was not one which it was requisite to enter on the Minutes ; and I have not been able to find it among my papers. o a v xj- 1093. Q. You wrote to Sir Charles Pepys ?— A. Yes. His answer is entered on the Minutes of the 23rd of May 1835, it is as follows : — .. ^ * o " Queen Ann Street, 30th April 1835. '' Dear Sir, I have perused a printed copy of a Bill, stated * to have been intended to be brought in by Lord Duncannon, in pursuance of a notice of motion in the House of Commons for leave for that purpose, on the 14th of July 1834 j' and I have no objection to the plan detailed in the Bill being carried into effect, upon the understanding that a proper com- pensation be secured to the Master of the Rolls for the loss of the Rolls House as a residence, either at an increase of salary, or by another fit habitation being provided for the Master of the Rolls elsewhere. I beg to be understood as giving my assent to the proposed plan merely in respect of my interest in the Rolls-House and Estate. I remain, dear Sir, Very truly yours, *' Charles Purton Cooper, Esq." C. C. Pepys." 1094. Q. Did you not, upon receiving such letter from Sir Charles Pepys, in pursuance of the resolution of the 11th of April, communicate to the Commissioners of Land Revenue the recommendation of the Board, that a Bill, similar to that referred to by the resolution, should be brought into Parliament, but with'^a clause for such compensation as is there suggested?— A. Itlid. 1095. Q. Did the Commissioners of Land Revenue take any steps for having such Bill brought in?— A. No. I had several communications with General Stephenson on the subject, who had from an early period manifested great interest in the success of our plan. I see that one of the notes that I received from him, about this time, is entered on the Minutes of the proceed- ings of the Commissioners : it is as follows, — " Office of Woods, &c. I6th June 1835. ^* My dear Sir, I am sorry it is not in my power to send any satisfactory answers to your inquiries, as I do not find any steps have been taken respecting the Bill framed last year for erecting the proposed General Record Office and Judges Chambers ; but, as far as I am informed, every thing relative to this important concern remains in statu quo. Believe me. Yours very faithfully, <'C. P. Cooper, Esq." B. C. Stephenson." 1096. Q. Did not Sir Charles Pepys, in the month of July 1835, address to you a letter, inquiring whether any steps had been taken in this business ? — A. Yes. 1 laid his honor's letter before the Board which met at the Speaker's on the 1st of August, the letter was as follows: — *• Queen Ann Street. 30th July 1835. ** Dear Sir, Not having received any communication respecting the Rolls House, since your letter informing me of the resolution of the Record Commission upon the subject, I must, I fear, assume that nothing has as yet been settled with regard to it. I have abstained from personally interfering in this matter, except by applying to the Treasury early in the present year for information j to which application I did not receive any answer. The lease of the house I now occupy expires at Christmas next ; it, therefore, has become an object of importance to me to know, as soon as possible, what course is intended to be adopted. 1 have been desirous of giving every facility to the proposed arrangements, and should be very sorry to be the means of occasioning the inconvenience which must attend the removal of the records from the Rolls House, and the ex- pense of restoring the house to a proper state for habitation ; but, if the proposed arrangement be not intended to be acted upon, it will be im- portant to me that the Rolls House should be ready for the reception of my family, by the time the lease of my present house expires. Under these circumstances I am anxious, before I take any steps for the above purpose, to ascertain from you in what position the question stands ; and whether, from any thing which may have passed between the Record Commissioners and the Government upon the subject, I may expect a speedy decision of the question. Believe me, Dear Sir, Yours truly, " C. P. Cooper, Esq." C C. Pepys." 1097. Q. Did not the Commissioners, in consequence of that Q 2 'Pfii 228 Miscellaneous Evidence. letter of Sir Charles Pepys, make some order?— A. Yes. The following order was made: — « Ordered— That Sir C. C. Pepys, Mr. Williams Wynn, and Sir Robert Inglis be requested, in conjunction with the Secretary, to see the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the subject of the communications from time to time made from the Board to the Lords of the Treasury, rela- tive to a General Record Office being built on the Rolls Estate ; and to urge the necessity of an immediate decision being come to, respecting the granting of compensation to the Master of the Rolls for the loss of the Rolls House as a residence, either by an increase of salary, or by another fit habitation being provided for that Judge elsewhere." 1098. Q. Did any interview with the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer take place in consequence ?— A. Yes. What passed at that interview cannot be better conveyed than in the words of the minute of the 6th of August 1835 : — *' Sir Robert Inglis stated to the Board, that, in pursuance of the resolution passed at the last Board, he had (accompanied by the Secre- tary, Mr. Wynn being out of town, and Sir C. C. Pepys desiring that his presence might be dispensed with) had an interview with the Chan- cellor of the Exchequer, who stated that no decision could be come to, respecting the granting of compensation to the Master of the Rolls for the loss of the Rolls House as a residence, either by an increase of salary, or by another fit habitation being provided for that judge else- where, until the opinion of the law officers of the Crown shall have been obtained as to his honor's title to the house and right to compensa- tion, looking at what had taken place between the Government and the late Master^ of the Rolls when the Rolls House was converted into a record-office, and the King's Bench Record Office at Westminster was converted into a court where his honor holds his sittings during term." 1099. Q. You do not know whether the opinion of the law officers of the Crown was obtained upon this point? — A. No: I do not. A case was, I believe, prepared, but 1 rather think I heard at the Treasury that it was not considered necessary to press for an opinion, as nothing could be done before the meeting of Parliament; and, as the Committee is aware, the elevation of Sir Charles Pepys to the Chancellorship rendered the question of no importance. Upon that event taking place, I wrote a private note to Lord Melbourne, suggesting that the Rolls House and Garden should be omitted in the patent of Sir Charles Pepys' successor; and, before Lord Langdale's patent was sealed, 1 had a commu- nication from Lord Melbourne, that an understanding had been come to with Mr. Bickersteth on the point. The Attorney General thought that the house and garden must be comprized in the grant; but Lord Langdale declared that he should consider himself as holding them in trust for public use ; of course such a declara- tion was all that was required. Miscellaneous Evidence, 229 1 100. Q. In a former part of your Evidence you have men- tioned that Sir John Leach, when it was proposed that a Com- mittee or Committees should be appointed for inquiring into the fees, emoluments and perquisites of the officers having the custody of records, showed to the Board that almost all the material ob- jects contemplated, in naming such Committee or Committees, had been already attained by the Royal Commissions issued in the year I8I6, and succeeding years, for making a diligent exa- mination of the duties, salaries and emoluments of the several officers, clerks and ministers of justice, in the Courts of West- minster Hall to which the records belong, and what regulations might be fit to be established respecting the duties, salaries and emoluments of the said several officers, clerks and ministers of iustice? A. Yes. 1101. Q. Was not Lord Brougham of opinion, that, without meaning to determine whether such objects had or had not been attained by such Royal Commissions, yet that, with the existing repositories, it was vain for the Board to go into any inquiry upon the duties of the record-keepers, their salaries, fees, per- quisites and emoluments, the rules, usages and regulations of the offices, and the general course of business therein, and whether any beneficial reforms, alterations, amendments or improvements could be introduced, or how the same could be best carried into effect?— A. Yes. That was Lord Brougham's opinion. 1102. Q. Was it not for that reason that Lord Brougham, from the month of April 1831, and during all the period that he took a part in the affairs of the Commission, did all in his power to farther the scheme for a General Record Office ?— A. It was. 1 103. Q. Were not the sentiments of Lord Brougham, upon this subject, shared by all the members of the Commission?— A. They were. 1104. Q. Have not the Commissioners repeatedly announced, that, so soon as a general repository should be built, they should sug "O oc- cur, a topographical arrangement is not that which is best adapted for ^neral purpo es. In departing from a chronological arrangement, we kse sight of the connection between cause and eflect, and necessarily deprive ourselves of the light which records are calculated to throw upon the general history of our nation. Let us imagine that he Close Rolls of the feTgn of King John had been arranged, by their Editor according to counties ; and the relative advantages of the rival systems will be forcibly yet fairiy, brought before us. It would, I apprehend, be a mat er ot no difficulty to frame an index, which should possess all the advantages which would result from a topographical arrangement ; retaining, hovv- ever, the instruments themselves, whether printed or imprinted, accord- ing lo the succession of their dates : but a chronological table, to a series of documents arranged topographically, must be attended with a greatei expenditure." 1276. Q. In various parts of >our Evidence you have alluded to a diminution of fees in the offices, as consequential upon the recent amendments in the law of real property ?--A. Yes. 1277. Q. Can vou furnish the Committee with any specihc in- formation on this point ?-A. Yes : I have an account of the fees for searches, inspections, &c. in the Augmentation Office, from the 5th of April, 1834, to the 10th of March, \^3d, 1278. Q. Does not Mr. Illingworth state, concerning the Aug- mentation Office, that - there is no record-office, excepting the Rolls Chapel, to which such continual resort is had for searches and copies of records ; and these on subjects of the greatest im- portance, as connected with tithe-suits, and where parties derive their titles, through the crown, to possessions, parcel of a dissolved religious house, or an attainted person" ?-A. Mr. Illmgworth so states in his '* Observations." 1 • ♦!, 1279. Q. What was the amount of the fees taken m the Augmentation Office, from April 1834, to March 183.>?-A. Only 30/. 18s. Miscellaneous Evidence, 261 1280. Q. In many of the offices the fees do not amount to twenty shillings per annum ? — A. They do not. 1281. Q. You think it is not very reasonable that the persons, having the custody of records, should be expected to give regular attendance for this remuneration ? — A. Not very reasonable. 1282. There are persons, however, who do not partake your opinion upon this point ? — A. It seems so : but upon inquiry you will find that such persons all belong to one class. 1283. Q. What class? — A. It is divided into two species; the record-agents form one ; one or two gentlemen at the bar, who have had no practice beyond now and then a solitary peerage case, form the other. 1284. Q. Is Mr. Grimaldi a record-agent ? — A. He is. 1285. Q. Since your examination on the 8th instant (July), have you not received a letter from Lord Aberdeen, communi- cating his Lordship's opinion upon the constitution of the Board? — A. Yes, I have. It is as follows : — •• Argyll House, " Dear Sir, ^«^i/ ^^h, 1836. I beg to return you my thanks for the copies of the various commu- nications which you have had the kindness to send me, respecting the composition and duties of the Board of Commissioners on the PubHc Records. Although, for some time past, I have abstained from attend- ing the Meetings of the Board, I have never ceased to take an interest in its efficiency and in the successful result of its labours. It is under the influence of these feelings, that I express my belief of the present Commission being fully adequate to attain all the ends for which it was established : I am not aware of any material amendment which could be proposed in its constitution. The suggestion of appointing paid Commissioners is no doubt plausi- ble, and may probably be supported by ingenious arguments : but upon this subject I entirely concur in the reasoning of Mr. Allen j who, in the Observations which you have sent me, has so fully and successfully shown the superiority of the present system of management. Although assenting generally to the opinions of Mr. Allen, I cannot implicitly subscribe to all his suggestions. I do not perceive the necessity or utility of a Treasurer ; and I can easily imagine that the situation of Inspector or Superintendent of Record Offices may become one of con- siderable delicacy, and not improbably lead to the inconvenience and embarrassment of all parties concerned. I apprehend that officers at present in existence, might properly perform aU that could be expected from such Inspector. I have the honour to be, *' C. P. Cooper, Esq., Dear Sir, very truly yours, &c. &c. &c." Aberdeen." 1 tl ill 26'2 Miscellaneous Evidence. 1286. Q. Have you duplicate copies of the papers and docu- ments laid by you before this Committee, and not printed in the Minutes of Evidence ?— A. Yes ; and I have prepared a list of all the papers and documents delivered in by me, which m my opinion are fit to be printed.— [See the Supplement.] SUPPLEMENT. SUPPLEMENT. I. Extracts from a Report of Sir Francis Palgra:ve, relative to the MisceU laneous Records in the Tower of London, dated 31 Oct, 1833. [Referred lo at page 69.] These consist of Judicial Writs, and other proceedings between party and party; Mandatorial or Prerogative Writs, of every class and description; Parliamentary Writs ; Parliamentary Proxies ; Letters, addressed to the King or his Ministers, by Foreign Potentates and Powers ; Notifications of the vacancies of religious houses ; other Letters addressed to the King, in his capacity of Visitor of ecclesiastical foundations, or in relation to his preroga- tives exercised in and over the same; Lettei-s addressed to the King, to the Chancellor, or to the other Ministers, concerning the levy of aids or subsidies, the performance of military service, or the management of public affairs ; Petitions or Bills addressed to the King, to the King and Council, or to the Chancellor; Applications for protections, for permission to appoint attomies, and other supplications for writs of grace and favour; Privy Seals; Privy Signets; Proceedings of and before the Council; Minutes or Orders of the same body ; private and confidential Letters to and from the Chancellor and his Clerks ; Commissions issued by the Crown, and Retiuns to, or Proceed- ings under, the same; Dockets, Pawns, and other documents in the nature of Warrants to the Seals ; Credentials of Ambassadors ; Treaties, Protocols, and Diplomatic Proceedings; — in short, whatever could be brought into the Chancery, a depository whose chief possessed the supreme direction and con* trol of every branch of the government. The following is a brief account of the general arrangement of the miscel- laneous records, as such arrangement subsisted in and previous to the month of July 1833. This account is collected partly from my own knowledge and partly from the Repertory. White Tower. — About 3000 bundles (according to Mr. Petrie's computa- tion) placed on shelves at the end of the record-room on the upper floor. The greater part of these records are still upon the original files, or enclosed in the original covers, and do not appear to have been recently examined or t see Supplement. inspected. A portion, but not all, are ticketed with the years of the reign to which they belong: the tickets give no other information. There is no notice, description or account of these records in the Repertory, and (to the best of my knowledge and behef) there is not any list, calendar, or other inventory thereof. Some years ago I drew out a bundle of the reign of Richard II. at a venture, and examined it, and found that it contained several Writs of Privy Signet and Privy Seal, filed with judicial and other proceed- ings ; and I therefore conjecture that there are more bundles of the same description. Other bundles consist of Judicial Writs. In the White Tower are also contained many large sacks, closely tied up, and labelled " Fragments :" but I am unable to state the number of these sacks, or to give any account of their contents. No effectual examination of the 3000 bundles can take place, until the documents are unstrung from their files, or taken out of their covers ; and then washed, cleaned and pressed. In their present state, it is not practicable to use them with any degree of convenience; and great loss of time ensues by working upon records obscured by dirt, or muddled by creases and folds. The Octagon Room contains a large collection of miscellaneous, unsorted and uncalendared records, disposed in the following manner : — Small Room or Closet, marked " A" on the Plan annexed to the R£pertory. Sixty-seven bundles of Writs, Correspondence, Bills, Petitions, Privy Sig- nets, and other documents of the most miscellaneous description; from the reign of Henry III. to the reign of James I. These bundles are all tightly tied up in cartridge-paper, and ticketed in numerical order ; but they are not arranged chronologically; and several of these bundles contain records of divers reigns, or of divers years of the same reign, as will be seen by the fol- lowing summary, which I collect from the Repertory. The dates are abstracted as they stand and are specified in Mr. Petrie's entries. (Bundle i.) 16 Edward I. (ii.) 10, 25, 28, 29, 26, 28, 29, (28, 29, again,) 1, 2, 3, 21, 22 Ed. I. (iii.^ 10 Ed. II., 20, 24 Ed. I., 23 Ed. I., — Ed. I., 18 Ed. I. (sine ^ ^ data), — Ed. I., 12 Ed. III. 31 Ed. I., — Ed. I. (iv.) No reign mentioned. (v.) — • Henry III., — Ed. I., 41 Henry III., 9 Hen. III. fvi.) — Ed. I., 28, 32 Ed. I., 53, 54 Hen. III., 25, 32, 28, 18, 23 Ed. I.,— Hen. III., 12 Ed. II., 20, 24, 31, 14, 10, 11 Ed. I. (vii.) -Ed.I., —Ed. III., -Ed. IV., —Ed. I., — Ed.IV., — Hen. VI., — Hen. VII., and others without specification of reign. (viiL) — Ed. II. (ix.) 52 Hen. III. (x.) — Ed. II. (xi.) — Hen. III. ♦ Where a dash — occurs, there is no date in the original Repertory. Supplement* S67 (Bundle xii.) — Ed. II., 23, 24, Ed. II. (xiu.) — Ed. II., 16 Ed. II. (xiv.) 42 Hen. III., 16 Ed. I. (XV.) 34 Ed. I. (xvi.) 27 Ed. I., 9 Ed. II. (xvii.) —Ed. II., —Ed.I. (xviii.) — Hen. III., — Ed. I. (xix.) — Ed. II. (xx.) — Ed. II. (xxi.) 3 Ed. II., 12, 13 Ed. I. (xxii.) Ed. II. Numbers from xxiii. to xxvii. omitted in Repertory, (xxviii.) No date, (xxix.) No date. (xxx., xxxl, xxxii., xxxiii., xxxiv.) James I., and uncertain, (xxxv.) Hen. VIII. (xxxvi.) Hen. VIIL, — Hen. VI. (xxxvii.) — Hen. VI. (xxxviii.) — Eliz. and James, (xxxix.) — James I. (xl.) — Hen. VIII. (xli.) — Ed. 1.- (xlii.) — Hen. VII., — Eliz. (xiiii.) No date. (xUv.) 2 Rich. II. (xlv.) — Ed. I., — James I. (xlvi.) 2 Rich. II. (xlvii.) James I. and Eliz. (xlviii. xlix.) No date. (1.) 12 Hen. VI. (li.) Divers reigns, (lii.) Divers reigns, (liii.) No date, (liv.) No date. (Iv.) 16, 17 Rich. II. (Ivi.) No date. (Ivii.) — Ed. IV. (Iviii.) Divers reigns. (lix.) — Ed. III., — Ed. L, — Ed. II., — Ed. III. (Ix.) — Ed. III. (Ixi.) No date. (Ixii.) — Ed. I., — Ed. II. (Ixiii., Ixiv., Ixv.) No dates. (Ixvi.) 1448 to 1535. (Ixvii.) 12 Rich. II. 268 Supplement, The Repertory contains a very brief description of the contents of each bundle, as appears by the extracts contained in the note ;* but these de- scriptions are (in my opinion) not such as to afford siifficient particulars of the contents of the bundles, for the purposes of search or reference. Farthermore, the said room marked " A." contains other miscellaneous, unsorted, and uncalendared records ; which, in Mr. Petrie's Repertory, are described in the words and figures following : — " Box containing State-Papers, " Box containing Original Letters, " 2 boxes containing unsorted Petitions. " Box of Papal Bulls. " Box contaming Petitions or Letters to the King and to the Council, " wholly on ecclesiastical affairs. " 2 boxes containing Private Deeds. ** Box containing Writs, Injunctions, Indentures and Private Grants. " Small box containing miscellaneous Parliamentary Documents. " Box of Papers, Letters addressed to the Chancellor of England." ♦ The Repertory has been recently (October) delivered to me, but I am infonned that Mr. Pctrie does not wish that it should be copied ; and therefore I confine my- self to those extracts which are absolutely necessary in order to render this Report intelligible. « «* (i.) Brevia de assisis in diversis comitatibus, 16 Ed. I." •* (ii.) 1. Mandata Regis ministris suis, varia negotia tangentia, 10 Ed. I," " 2. De finibus cleri faciis, pro protectionibus habendis, 25 Ed. I." *• 3. Brevia, extentae, et appretiationes bonorum et catallorum et tenemen- ** torum, apud Cumberland, et apud Eborum, 28, 29 Ed. I.'* ** 4. Pardonationes sub magno sigillo, 26 Ed. I." ** 5. Extract' de Banco diversorum comitatuum, 28, 29 Ed. I." •* 6. Brevia et inquisitiones coronam tangent', 1, 2, 3 Ed. I." •• 7. Extract' finium, &c.. 21, 22 Ed. I." " (iii.) I. Indentura Admirall' flotae Regis, pro sustentacione marinarionim, •• 10 Ed. II." ^ " 2. Significacio de debitis, 20, 24 Ed. I." " 3. Bill® pro brcvibus de liberate, 23 Ed. 1." " ** \ Miscellanea, viz. Billae, &c., Ed. I.'* «* 5. 5 " 6. Warranta pro brevibus de allocate et liberate, et pro brevibus de diver- " sis pecuniae summis solvendis, 18 Ed* I." " 9. Indentuiae et obligationes pro lanis ad opus Regis." " 10. De protectionibus, 12 Ed. III.'* ••11. litterae patentes cum sigillis appensis, Ed. I.'* ** Panella juratorum, Ed. I." " (iv.) Placita de Banco." •* (v.) 1. De guerra Wallensi miscellan.. Hen. III., Ed. I." " 2. Placita coram Regc apud Turrhn London., 41 Hen. III." «* 3, Placita de ^aola deliberanda, et assisa nov» disseisin©, apud Ivelcestef i " de comitatu Somers., 9 Hen. III." Supplement, 269 These boxes, when I last saw them, were not distinguished by any tickets or labels, referring to the Repertory, or connecting them therewith : but the largest box was pointed out to me as the " Box containing original Letters ;"* and I have examined the contents thereof, and it contains as follows : — Foreign Letters, or Letters addressed to the Kings of England by Foreign Powers. Many of these letters were sorted into covers of cartridge-paper, and indorsed with the names of the sovereigns or countries to which they belong ; e.g. " Literae Ludovici Corn Flandf et Johannis Com Flandr, Norway, &c. ;" but the outward specification did not always correspond with the contents. This variation may be easily explained, by adverting to the circumstance that the letters are loose in the papers, and may easily have shifted their places from accident or other causes. These Foreign Letters form the basis of the collection of transcripts of this class of documents which I have made, pur- suant to the orders of the Board. 1 . Letters addressed to the King, or other persons, on subjects of domestic policy. 2. Certifications from Religious Houses, Prelates, &c. 3. Privy Seals. 4. Judicial and other Writs. 5. Proceedings before the Council. 6. Dockets for Commissions. 7. Petitions to the King, or to the King in Council. 8. Parliamentary Proxies, and a Parliamentary Return for London, (the latter of 1 Edward III.,) and various other documents coming under the gene- ral description of the records infilaciis ; the more important of which I have transcribed. All these are placed, without any particular arrangement, in covers of cartridge-paper or pasteboard, or in the box without any covers; and, judging from the holes through which the file passed, and other circum- stances, I have reason to believe that the mass of documents in this box, as well as those contained in the bundles before-mentioned, is the result of selec- tions and excerpts made from the same kind of bundles as are now in the White Tower. Some portions of the correspondence have been marked with numbers in pencil. Bookcase in the Octagon Room marked " B." in the P/flw.— According to Mr. Petrie's Repertory, it contains " a basket, containing two bags of Letters, and one basket of Parliamentary Documents." « G." Press.— This Press, according to the Repertory, contains " Letters Royal, &c., placed in books." The Repertory is thus entirely silent as to the number of these volumes, and not very explicit as to their nature. The very succinct description thus given does not disclose any information beyond the fact, that " Press G." • The letter *' H." is marked upon the box ; but this mark, which appears to have been inscribed many years ago, does not refer to any existing arrangemenU, being unnoticed in the Repertory. 170 Supplement contains more than one « book" in which " Letters Royal, &c." are placed. I believe the books were formed by the late Mr. Lysons. When I had access to the record-room, I obtained two of these books, the first lettered " A." and the second " B." The binding is of Russia leather, and much too costly for its purpose. The books are composed of leaves of blank paper, with parch- ment guards between the leaves ; to which guards it is intended to stitch the leaves. This, however, is only the case in Volume A.» In Volume B. the letters lie loose between the leaves. When this volume was put into my hands in the record-room by Mr. A. B., one of Mr. Petrie's clerks, another gentleman (Mr. Z.), who happened accidentally to be present, brought to me (I do not know from what part of the room) a large packet of documents contained in a sheet of cartridge-paper; which documents, as he stated, ought to be considered as belonging to the book, and I have considered them so accordmgly. The documents in the volumes consist principally, but not ex- clusively, of domestic and foreign Letters to and from the Kings of England and other distinguished personages : they are very curious ; and I have caused the greater portion of them to be transcribed, or noted for transcription. The Press marked " D." is partly appropriated to Parliamentary Documents, which, in the Repertory, are described as follows : — " Contents of Press marked * D. ' in the general Plan . Writs and Returns " to Parliament from Edward I. to 17 Edward IV., viz. " Edward I.— Bundles for the 18th, 23d, 26th, 26th, 28th, 30th, and " 34th years of his reign. « Edward II.— 1st, 2d, 4th, 5th, 6th, (four Parliaments), 7th, 8th, (two "Parliaments), 12th, 14th, (two Parliaments), 15th, 16th, 17th, " 18th, 19th, 20th years of his reign. " Edward III. « Richard " Henry IV. " Henry V.— Box 3, 5, 7, 8, 8, and 9, 9. « Henry VI.— Bundles for the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 12, 13, 15, 20, 25, « 27, 28, 29, 31, 33, 35, 38, 39. One miscellaneous, « Edward IV.— Bundles for the 6, 12, 17. «* Statute Rolls.— 1 1, with a Private Act of Parliament— Petitions to the « King's Council." The Writs of Edward I. and II. have been printed. Those of Edward III. and Richard II. have been transcribed. With respect to those of subsequent reigns, I must refer to the former part of this Report. I presume that the Petitions contained in this Press are the Parliamentary Petitions transcribed under my directions ; at least, I cannot find any other entry in the Repertory appearing to refer to them. 11, i»/w*, *,VM* jrcraj III.-l II. > In boxes. V. 3 ♦ Some of the Letters m Volume ** A." are inlaid. Supplement, 271 In other receptacles in the Octagon Room are, according to the Repertory, the following miscellaneous and uncalendared records : — " Press if."—" Brevia et Placita de terris coram R. in Cancellar." " Press J."—" Placita coram R. 18, 57 Henr. III., 41 bundles. " Placita de Banco, 8, 57 Henr. III. " Placita de Juratis & assisis ac de corona coram Justic. " itin. Henr. III., 20 bundles. " Placita de Banco, Edward I. and Edward II., viz. 13 " temp. Edw. I., 23 temp. Edw. II." " Press or "1st Shelf, 1st division, 24 bundles of County Placita. " 2d ditto, 18 bundles, containing Brevia de certiorari, In- " dentures, Letters Patent, Grants of Land " in the County of Kent. « 3d ditto, 18 bundles, Placita, Letters Patent, Inq.virtute " officii, Protections. " 6th ditto, 25 bundles, Placita, Brevia cum placitis in di- " versis regnis. " 1st Shelf, 2d division, 18 bundles of writs. " 2d ditto, 25 bundles of writs. " 3d ditto, 28 bundles of writs." " In the Drawers marked R." " 1, containing two small bags of Private Deeds. " 2, Private Deeds, Wills and Indentures. " 3, Brevia Regum to be sorted. " 4, Inquisitions and Writs." It will be observed that the Repertory furnishes no information respecting the before-mentioned records, by which their nature can be ascertained with any degree of precision . Nor does it specify any mark or token, by which any one of the "bundles of writs" can be distinguished from any other or others of them. With respect to the documents contained in the drawers, they are evidently of a miscellaneous nature. In or about the month of May, I opened one of the drawers in the presence of Mr. A. B., and found, as I opened it, a bundle of original Credentials, 18 Edward II., whereby the Bishop of Norwich and others are empowered to treat with the King of France, the Duke of Britanny, &c. On inspecting the documents contained in the box, designated m the Re- pertory as containing « Original Letters," I found Parliamentary Returns, Parliamentary Proxies, Orders of Council relatmg to Parliaments, Petitions to the King and Council, documents relating to Aids demanded from the Clergy, documents relating to MiUtary Service, aU of which ought to appear in the Parliamentary Writs, or in the Rolls of Parliament. Now it is hardly necessary to observe that the description given of the box in the Repertory (viz. " Original Letters") could not in anywise lead me, or any other person, «7« Supplement, to a sufficient knowledge of its contents, or indicate that any parliamentary documents were included therein. No reference to the Repertory could have enabled me to procure an adequate " supply" from this box. In like manner, upon comparing the account of my proceedings with rela- tion to the Parliamentary Writs and Returns of the reigns of Henry V., VI., and Edward IV., with the specification in the Repertory, it will be seen that the Repertory did not aflTord that certain information which was requisite to enable me to collect the documents or to obtain a " supply;" and that, had it not been for the actual inspection of the records by the aid of Mr. A. B., and for the subsequent and accidental communication made to be by Mr. Z., (a communication made not oflficially, but as an act of personal attention and civility, depending upon the inclination of the party, and which might have been withheld,) it is very probable that many of the Writs, dispersed as they were, woidd have escaped my notice. Amongst the materials, also, for the third volume of the Parliamentary Writs (or the reign of Edward IIL) collected by me, are various transcripts from Returns in the Museum. It is very possible (and indeed probable) that, like the others, the originals exist in the Tower ; but I have not the slightest clue to make the search. In like manner, with respect to the Foreign Letters, it is just possible that I might have conjectured that the " Letters-Royal" in " Press G." included letters from foreign princes ; but the Repertory does not specify the number or distinguishing marks of the books ; nor could I possibly have been ^' sup- plied" with them by aid of the general Repertory. But even if the several books had been specified, this specification would not have ensured to me the *' supply" of all the instruments contained in the books. I might have received Book " B." from Mr. A. B., without obtaining the parcel of letters contained in the cartridge-paper; and which I should (as I believe) not have teen at all, but from the circumstances before*mentioned, viz. the accidental presence and civility of Mr. Z. Nor could I have ascertained that the Drawers marked " R." contained the bundle of Credentials, which constitute an important appendage to the foreign correspondence, if Mr. A. B. had not allowed me to enter the room. * ♦ • If I had not opened the Drawers with my own hands, I could not possibly have obtained the " supply." As to examining the records for the purpose of calendaring, methodizing, and arranging them, such measures are now quite impracticable with any degree of accuracy or expedition. I cannot, for instance, tell the date, nature or size of one of the bundles of writs in " Press O." I cannot quote them, nor send for any one bundle in particular. I can only act by groping in the dark. The Repertory discloses nothing beyond the fact that the press con- tains certain bundles, placed upon certain shelves. • ♦ * * The present arrangement of the miscellaneous records is, in every way, objectionable. 1. They cannot be consulted without great loss of time and inconvenience. To open a bundle closely tied up in cartridge-paper, or to dive to the bottom Supplement, 273 of a box, each time that you wish to inspect a particular document, are opera- tions which in themselves oppose great obstacles to research ; still more, when the documents are so cmshed, crumpled, muddled and dirty, as greatly to diminish their legibility ; and, with respect to those bundles yet upon the files, they cannot be consulted without incurring a loss of time which wholly forbids research and inquiry. 2. Under the present system, there is no certainty of quotation or reference. A given letter of Louis Count of Flanders is lying loosely, with ten or fifteen others, in a sheet of cartridge-paper, deposited loosely in a box ; which box stands loosely on the floor in a particular room. But the letter may be re- moved from the paper, or the paper from the box, or the box from the room ; and, in case of the death or absence of the individuals who are now cognizant of the present position of the records, any one of the above three removals (and any one might and does happen from various causes) would, in the event of death or absence, occasion the most laborious search before the document could be found again. With respect to such bundles as the writs contained in " Press O.," it is unnecessary to remark that reference to them is impossible. The present Keeper of the Records may be able to discover a document, and to produce it ; but he cannot transfer this knowledge to any body else. ♦ * • ♦ 3. No given reign or period can be searched, so as to exhaust any particular branch of record information which may be required. To make complete search amongst the miscellaneous records, is a task which is virtually imprac- ticable : it would be necessary to dodge backwards and forwards, from box to bundle, and from bundle to box, in a manner which, with the utmost care, coidd never be rendered satisfactory. 4. Records might be removed or destroyed. If a quarter of the writs were taken out of the bundles in " Press O.," it is diflicult to conjecture how the Keeper could ascertain the deficiency. It is proper, however, to state that I have reason to believe that the Tower records have been preserved with the most exemplary fidelity. It is but too well known that records, evidently proceeding from public repositories, have not unfrcquently been exposed for sale : but I never saw any record under such circumstances, which I could suppose had belonged to the Tower ; nor do I know of any such records in any public or private collection, excepting only a few in the Cottonian and Harleian collections in the Museum, which must have been removed long before the present generation. Still tlie system is defective, and calls for a remedy : because, unless some means be adopted for securing the records, it will not be practicable to allow the public to have access to them; and the principal object to be sought, in the formation of Calendars, will be defeated. Until the miscellaneous records are identified, like the Charters, &c. in the Museum, any stranger must of necessity be excluded. For the reasons, therefore, appearing upon this Report, I submit the follow- ing propositions : — I, All the miscellaneous, unsorted and uncalendared records, of the nature T 274 Supplement. before described, and now dispersed and divided in the Wbite Tower, ttn. Octagon Room, or elsewhere, to be taken out of their several boxes, cases dra^rs, lockers and bundles, and rough-sorted in the first instance, and united into one regular consecutive and continuous series, according to reigns and years ; and so placed, in pigeon-holes or portfolios, as to be easily and '' MucH^d be gained by this first step of chronological aixangement Supposing, for instance, all the writs and other documents of the reign of Edward III. were thus arranged, they could be inspected and Pemsed ^^^ comparative facility; not so conveniently as under a more finished arrange^ ment, but still so as to enable the reader, turning over each parchment a. he leaf of a book, to ascertain its contents. Any person employed upon the records would be able, by thus turning the documents over, to collect, and to Tceiin and satisfy himself that he had collected, all the ^arham-tary Writs,Foreign Correspondence, or any other given class of records, for a given perioi; and any collection for such given period «^f * ^« ^"7^^^ ^^^^^ Jlete: whereas now, perhaps not even the Keeper of the ^^^^^'^^^^^T^ Lly no one else, can be satisfied that he has put himself i- P--^^^^^^^ ^hole of his materials. The principal record-rooms m the ^^^^^ ^ower would afford ample room for cases of pigeon-holes (the most convenient Zngement) ; and these, if made of plain deal, could be erected at a very moderate expense, and comprized within a moderate compass. II. The records to be washed, cleaned and pressed, as the rough sortation '' m^^is a very essential point. Unwashed, muddled, or emmpled '«^ords usually occupy twice as much time in transcribing, as washed and flatted records. Besides which, the miwashed and crumpled records require more space for stowage, and cannot be consulted with convenience. Except in cases where the records are much decayed, the processes of washing and flatting may be peri'ormed with very little trouble. , , , ^ III After having been rough-sorted into years and reigns, and cleaned, according to Propositions I. and II., the records to be fine-sorted into classes and fixed in books or portfohos, as the size may require. The books to be distinguished by letters or numbers; and the records to be also number^, each piece having a separate number; and a stamp, like that used m the Museum, to be impressed on each. This arrangement would accomplish all that is needed, either for accuracy ofreference or security. , , ,, IV. Such a classification to be adopted, as may separate the most valuable and interesting documents ftom the less valuable and interesting; and also such as to enable the binder to form them into convenient and manageable volumes. Many advantages will result from classification, particularly with respect to the more important documents; which, by being seps^ted lh)m the less important, will be consulted with additional facility. The plan of such a classification cannot be fixed, until a considerable proportion of the Supplement, 275 records have been examined ; but I propose making the following main divi- sions, subdividing them as experience may direct : — Instruments issued under the Great Seal. . • . . Privy Seal. Privy Signet. Bills of the Wardrobe, Certificates out of the Exchequer, and instru- ments under the seals of the different Courts. Bills, Petitions, Letters, and other documents, not under seal. Foreign Letters and Correspondence, Treaties and other documents relating to diplomacy or foreign affairs. Domestic State-Papers. V. Calendars, upon the plan suggested in my Report of the 31st of May, to be prepared, of the records, when and as they shall be sorted and arranged according to the preceding propositions. The materials for the Calendars can be in preparation as the sortation pro- ceeds ; but no calendar can be completed, until the records are so arranged and fixed as to afford certainty of reference and quotation. Many objections may perhaps be raised against the execution of the above Propositions. They may be pronounced visionary or useless. It may even be alleged that a muddled record can be copied with as much facility as a cleaned record. But I make the Propositions upon the fullest conviction that the plan is entirely practicable, and can be executed within a moderate period, and that, unless some such arrangement of the records be made, no indivi- dual can satisfactorily carry the orders of the Commission into effect. The question is simply this,— whether the miscellaneous and unsorted records of the Chancery shall be rendered useful, or whether they shall continue virtually useless. In order that the nature and value of the unsorted records may be under- stood and appreciated, I propose, if the Committee think fit, to compile a descriptive volume, consisting of specimens selected from the mass which I have transcribed, with historical or legal notices explanatory thereof. Speci- mens of the materials which I have thus collected will enable the literary public, both at home and abroad, to judge of the nature of the materials so long concealed. Such a volume of analecta would prepare the way for a full publication of the Correspondence, whether domestic or foreign, or of any class which may be selected : it would also explain the reasons why such pub- lication cannot immediately take place, and the expenses of printing would probably be defirayed by the sale of the work, which might be brought out in octavo. A few fac-similes would be desirable, particularly of the foreign documents ; for, whatever may be the riches of Foreign Archives, in this respect they have not been sufficiently used ; and the documents in the Tower afford specimens, from the twelfth to the fifteenth century, which are much superior to any hitherto published either in Mabillon De Re diplomaiica, or in the Notiveau Traite de Diplomatique, which are usually considered as two of the best foreign works upon this subject. T 2 ( 276 > 11. Mr. Palmer's Letter on Mr, Hatdys Evidence respecting the Wnts if Privy Seal, Signed Bills, etc, at the Rolls Chapel, Sir, [Referred to at page 83.] Having been desired to read over the Minutes of Evidence forwarded by you, which had been taken before the Select Committee on the Record Commission, relating to the Privy Seal and Signed BiU bundles preser^'ed in the Rolls Chapel, and if necessary, to make any observation thereon, I beg leave to correct an error which one of the witnesses has fallen into. In Mr. Hardy's answer to Question 6632, he states that the want of calen- dars and indexes obliged him to inspect every document in the Privy Seal and Signed BiU bundles during the reign of Henry the Eighth, and tliat he found the bundles in a " most filthy and disgraceful state." I am persuaded that a very little reflection would have induced Mr. Hardy to give a different answer, by bringing to his recollection the circumstances which occasioned the search above mentioned. It is well known that the Warrants contained in those bundles are the documents from which the Letters Patent are ingrossed, when they are passed under the Great Seal : the several Warrants are afterwards collected from various offices by the Six Clerks in rotation, and by them inroUed upon the Patent Rolls ; which, toge- ther with the Warrants themselves, are transmitted according to antient usage to the Rolls Chapel, where the instruments upon the rolls are regularly calendared, and as the Calendars may in all ordinary cases be safely relied on, it will be seen that the necessity of resorting either to the rolls or to the bundles must be exceedingly rare. ; In two peerage-claims before the House of Lords, both of which were grounded upon the peerages havmg originated by Writs of Summons in the reign of King Henry the Eighth, it became necessary to prove that there were no Patents of Creation ; and the Office Calendars were searched in the customary manner, and no entry of the inrolments of such patents found: but it being possible that such inrolments might exist upon the rolls, and not have been entered in the Calendar, the roUs themselves were looked through with like success, and the possibiHty of such patents being in existence, and not .inroUed in the usual course, rendered it also necessary to search the Privy Seals, &c., from which the rolls were made up, and Mr. Hardy there- fore looked through the bundles of a few years of that reign. Consequently, it was in order to prove a negative, in a solemn proceeding beforp the highest Supplement, 277 tribunal in the kingdom, that those documents were inspected, and not from the want of calendars or indexes. From the large size of the bundles, and many of them containing the War- rants of several years, some being very short, and written upon small pieces of parchment, and others long, and occupying very long skins, the warrants themselves are not so well arranged in the bundles as might be wished : but the bundles are in regular order ; and whenever search has been made for a document, which was ascertained by searching the Calendar not to be upon the roll, but which was known to have existed, it has always been successful. The bundles being large and seldom resorted to, notwithstanding that they are thoroughly swept in every long vacation, they, like the books of barristers and private gentlemen, which are kept on open shelves, unavoidably collect much dust ; but the dust is chiefly confined to the outer covers, and to such of the skins as are large, the rest, generally speaking, being in the finest pre- servation, which would readily be acknowledged by any gentleman who would take the trouble to inspect them, and who could not but be surprized that such terms as " filthy and disgraceful " had been applied to them. I have the honour to be, Sh-, Your most obedient servant, Thomas Palmer. C. P. Cooper, Esq. &c. &c. &c. ( 278 ) III. Mr, Black's Statement concerning Rymer's Manuscriptt and the School of Transcribers, [Referred to at pages 95, 100.] Though I have already furnished a Statement, concerning " The School of Transcribers," for Mr. Cooper's use in his Evidence before the Select Com- mittee, yet there is obviously so determined a conspiracy to attack the Com- mission, especially on those matters wherein I have been engaged with Mr. Cooper, that I am under the necessity of controverting what has been said by the Witnesses examined since Mr. Protheroe (2089-90), especially by Mr. Stevenson and Sir Harris Nicolas, on the subject of the principal business of the Transcribers at the British Museum, which consists in copying Rymer's MSS. The first charge, gratuitously made by Mr. Stevenson against the School of Transcribers and their employment, is in the following words :— " The Pupils " do not seem to have made much progress; for the only one of these gentle- « men with whom I have had any dealings told me, that they had not been « employed m transcribing documents of any great antiquity, and that he and « his companions were chiefly occupied in copying the matter which was not « inserted in Rymer's Fffdera : these papers were written about the beginning " of the last century." (Num. 3828.) Then, after assenting to the Chair- man's assumption that under my « auspices they are learning to transcribe « documents not 150 years old, which are the documents rejected by Rymer « in the formation of the Ftrrfera," (3830)— he goes on to say that " their « time appears to be thrown away, and these transcripts, upon which they "have been employed, are of no earthly value." (3831.) He adds, in answer to Mr. Pusey, that " they are transcribing Rymer's transcripts, " the originals of the greater part of which are in the Tower" (3832) : and afterward teUs a story of their copying documents transcribed from that archive, which had been already printed by the Commission. (3844.) Lastly, he charges those MSS. with such inaccuracy as to be utteriy useless. On these charges I have the following remarks to make :— 1. That, though the transcripts in question were written so lately as in the beginning of the last century, they do not therefore contain no " documents of any great antiquity." These fifty-nine volumes* contain a series from the reign of Henry I. to that of Charles I.; yet only nineteen of them are later than the reign of Henry VI., and only eight of these are later than Henry • The last (and latest) volume is lost. It will be perceived that there is a dis- crepancy about their number iu passages quoted in a farther page of this Statement, The uumber now in the Museum is fifty-eight. Supplement, 279 VIIJ. Their contents offer great variety of age, form, language, and there- fore of comparative difficulty or ease; and, as the abbreviations of the original are in many cases preser\'ed, and as they are written in an old oftice-hand, by the transcription of them the Pupils more readily become acquainted with the original records from which they were copied. Mr. Stevenson has taken upon liimself to say, of these MSS., that " to retranscribe them requires no diplo- " matic knowledge " (3837.) This I answer by a flat contradiction, and by inviting any one who possesses no such knowledge, to judge, by the copying q£ a few pages, whether he or I be right. 2. That, though it is tiue that the Pupils copy " the matter which was 7iot " inserted in Rymer's Fosdera,'' it is not correct to designate the same as " documents rejected by Rymer in the formation of his Fadera." So great diversity of opinion has been expressed, as to the design and value of these MSS., by men of emment learning, that it is difficult to form a just estimate: nor will I undertake to do so, until I have finished what I have begun, — a Chronological Catalogue of their contents. I shall only say, on the present occasion, that the opinion above expressed was not that of Rymer's Execu- trix, of his Publisher, of the Treasury in their time, or of the House of Lords in 1719. Whether they be of any " earthly value," or not, must remain to be decided when the public shall be better acquainted with theu* contents. 3. That, though the originals of most of them are at the Tower, their me is not the less on that account. The design of copying these MSS. was (as Mr. Stevenson knew very well) not because of any supposed authenticity in- herent in the MSS. themselves, but because they constitute a selection or a collection of records, the value of which as such, and the individual fitness of the documents composing it for a Supplement to tlie Fmdera, it was desired to estimate, by means of a frill Catalogue, on the same plan as that which he has framed of the analogous collection left by Dr. Clarke and his coadjutors, and which Catalogue has been so much extolled by his friend Mr. Tytler in his Evidence. The transcripts made by the School of Transcribers were in- tended to serve the threefold purpose, (1.) «f furnishing an instructive and usefril employment to the Pupils, as their principal task, when not otherwise occupied by special duties; (2.) of supplying the materials for the formation of such a Catalogue, by one whose hours, while the Museum is open, are otherwise employed; (3.) of preventing the necessity of transcribing from the rolls in the Tower and elsewhere, in the event of publishing such as should be selected for a future work ; these transcripts only needing collation with the originals. One of the instructions given to the Pupils is, not to copy any documents that have been printed, but simply to note down the numbers and titles of them on a sepai-ate sheet of paper, with references to the works wherein they were published. This has been regularly done ; the Faderoj the B'Otuli Scotia, the Proceedings of tJie Frivy Council, and other works, being constantly used for this purpose. I cannot believe, therefore, the fol- lowing story, which seems as if it were invented for the sake of casting ridi- cule on the department of a fellow labourer. " Upon one occasion," says 280 Supplement, Supplement, 281 he, " when one of those young gentlemen was retranscribing a document " which Rymer had copied in a faulty manner from the Rotuli Scotia^ it «* was pointed out to him that the Rotuli Scotia had been printed ; upon a " reference to the printed volume he found the correct reading, and was thus " able to remove the difficulty over which he had been puzzling." (3844.) If there be any truth here, it amounts only to an inadvertency, which it would have been more creditable for the relator to forget, than to proclaim to the senate and to the nation. 4. That they are not so inaccurate as Mr. Stevenson would represent, is clear from the very authority that he alleges in support of his assertion. He says that " conjectural emendation is often necessary to correct the gross " absurdities evident in the greater part of Rymer's transcripts" (3841) ; and adds, " I have frequently consulted them," (here the reader is at a loss to know whether " those transcripts of Rymer" or my " retranscripts" be meant; but, supposing the former, he continues—-) " and almost always found them " so inaccurate that I could not use them. The same opinion is expressed by «* Sir Harris Nicolas in the preface to one of the volumes of Proceedings of « [Me] Privi/ Council" (3843.) The remarks here referred to are to be found in the first volume of that work, in the following words :— " In the instances where Rymer's transcripts have been used, it has occasionally been requisite to correct the obvious blunders of the transcriber; but as few alterations as possible have been made. Some of the transcriber's errors are, perhaps, retained, from the fear of alter- ing what actually* occurs in the originals; because neither grammatical construction nor orthography afford any certain guide in the case of Petitions, which probably were often written by very illiterate persons." And " it was highly desirable that the articles which have been printed from Rymer's transcripts should have been collated with the originals, could access have been obtained to them ; but it is very seldom that the repository in which the MSS. are preserved is referred to ; and in the few cases where references to the originals do occur, they are mentioned in a very unsatisfactory manner; for example, Ex originey E papyro, and sometimes, though rarely. Infra Turrintf a search in which repository for a few unsorted documents would have delayed the work to an indefinite period, with uncertain success, and vdthout proportionate advantage." {FrefacCy dated 10 March, 1834, pp. ix. X.) That the opinion entertained by Mr. Stevenson is not the " same" which is here expressed, is evident from the extensive use which Sir Harris Nicolas has made of these MSS. In his Jive volumes which have already appeared, he has printed no fewer than a hundred and seventy-one documents from Rymer's transcripts, as it appears by an Index compiled by one of the Pupils under my direction, for the very purpose of avoiding the transcription of those ah-eady published. They are in the following proportion : — Ryiner'A Volume. Richard II. vol. 4 . . . . No. in Brit. Mus. 4594 Docaments. 1 Henry I V. vol. 1 . . . . 4596 6 2 . . . . 4597 1 Henry V. vol. 1 . . . . 2 . . . . 4600 4601 6 9 3 . . . . 4602 9 4 . . . , 4603 47 Henry VI. vol. 1 . . . . 2 . . . . 4604 4605 22 15 3 . . . . 4606 9 4 ... 4607 8 5 - . . 4608 27 6 ... 4609 10 8 ... 4611 1 Total . . 171 As only six of these documents were printed in the first volume, wherein the censure above recited was given, it is impossible to account for so large an increase in the succeeding volumes, when the Editor (Sir Harris Nicolas) states in evidence before the Select Committee, that Rymer's copies of the later of these documents were less perfect than the earlier ones. The follow- ing is the whole of his Evidence on this subject, in answer to Mr. Buller's questions : — *' 4234. Have you printed any part of Rymer's transcripts ?— Yes : such " part as related to the Proceedings of the Privy Council. " 4235. Did Mr. Cooper order them to be copied?— I had discretionary " power to print what I pleased from the Privy Council Proceedings in the " Museum. I hear that Mr. Cooper has ordered all Rymer's transcripts to " be copied in the British Museum, and I cannot conceive any thing more " useless than such a proceeding. " 4236. What is your opinion of the value of those transcripts?— Com- '" paratively speaking, little or none, because they have been imperfectly " made. It is impossible they can be printed as records ; nor would the " transcripts be useful to collate with the originals^ because the words are " written at length, instead of the contractions being given as they occur in " the originals. Those which I printed I began with, because the earlier " transcripts were more perfect than the later ones, and I had little hope of ** discovering the originals ; but I have some doubt, however, whether I did " right in printing them at all. , . , . ^ . -, .- ^ ^^. "4237. Are those transcripts of Rymer stated in his* introduction to the " Fadera to be too inaccurate to print?— Yes: and Mr. Cooper has said so " himself in his own work on the records, where he has particularly called " attention to their condition. • j , v " 4238. And yet these are the manuscripts he has had copied?— Yes. • The '• Introduction" meant by the learned Chairman cannot be Rymer's, but that of his Editor Dr. Clarke Read th^. I 1 • Pro&aft/i/.— W. H. B. ft^n Supplement, Supplement, 283 <* 4239. And in his Return to Parliament he calls them the valuable, but " long neglected Collectanea of Rymer; are these the same manuscripts? — "lam aware of that discrepancy between his statements" &c. I have quoted the whole passage, in order to show that this Witness endeavours to avoid censure for the enormous extension of his own work through the insertion of so many irrelevant documents, by offering pretended excuses, and taking an opportunity of attacking Mr. Cooper. The Chairman seems to have wanted to know whether Sir Harris Nicolas used Mr. Cooper's transcripts, or made new ones; and then, finding a supposed contradiction, which the Witness was eager enough to confinn, the animtis of the whole transaction is shown, not less by this than by the " vicious" passage (on another subject) which concludes the last answer. (4239-40.) Let us now examine " the discrepancy" which these learned gentlemen are so sure that Mr. Cooper has exhibited. The article on " The Fadera" in Mr. Cooper's Account of the principal Public Records, avowedly consists of Dr. Clarke's General Introduction and some of his Reports, with other papers, not written, but merely collected by the Compiler. To that General Introduction belongs a marginal note, given at p. 108 of Mr. Cooper's second volume, in the following words: — " The Collectanea of Rymer in the British Museum, consisting of fifly- seven volumes of folio transcripts, made by different hands, are so exceedingly incorrect as to be perfectly useless for the purpose of being printed ; they give indeed a good general idea oi the instruments of which &ey are supposed to be fair transcripts, but nothing more." To this severe note of Dr. Clarke, the Editor has added, with his usual and perfectly intelligible distinctions, the two following favorable extracts from modem publications, which deserve to be read with much attention : — " Fifty-eight volumes of inedited materials, collected by Rymer, but not inserted in the Faulera, are preserved in the British Museum, forming the additional MSS. from No. 4573 to 4630. Though it is said, in the Introduc- tion to the New Edition of the Fcedera, that those transcripts were in many instances too inaccurate to be printed from, they will nevertheless be found highly useful for antiquarian and historical purposes. A catalogue of the documents in question is given in the seventeenth volume of the second Lon- don edition of the Fosdera, and there is an index to the contents of each volume." " Besides the documents printed in the Old Edition, Rymer formed fifty- «even foUo volumes of manuscript collections of records illustrative of history, between the year 1115 and the year 1698, which apparently were intended as a continuation of his splendid work. These manuscripts are preserved in the British Museum, and require nothing more to render them Jit for press^ than that the various instruments should^ where practicable^ be collated with jthe originals" Neither were these passages written by the Compiler (Mr. Cooper), nor does a third passage contain any opinion whatever of his, but merely re- ferences to the most considerable notices of Rymer's MSS. found in older works. These commendatory notices were written by Sir Harris Nicolas him- $elft and are expressly referred to his own pamphlets;* though he now, for the sake of detracting from the merits of Mr. Cooper, charges him with wilful inconsistency, for giving a " favorable" opinion of those neglected MSS., — neglected indeed by Dr. Clarke, who was no more fit to decide on the his- torical merits of a record or MS. than Sir Harris Nicolas is to test the accu- racy of a diplomatic transcript. Returning to Mr. Stevenson's Evidence, I must observe, that there is much culpable misrepresentation in what he says about the Pupil whom I sent to him at the Tower ; and of whom he says, that a considerable portion of his (Mr. Stevenson's) time was occupied in teaching him to read documents of the age of Edward I., and in correcting his transcripts from them; tins he calls teaching him " the rudiments of his business." (3833.) The truth is, that, Mr. Stevenson having, in January 1835, dismissed to me the clerk men- tioned in answer 3849, because he was not sufficiently skilled in Latin, and in abstracting documents, — when another was to be sent by exchange, in Sep- tember following, I chose the one most skilled in both those branches of his business ; not being given to understand that one was wanted who should be an able transcriber ; for he, not writing a good hand, and yet being an excel- lent scholar, had been employed by me more in matters of research and m- genuity than in the occupation of transcribing, and had actually (under my special instruction) reduced all the dates in the Fcrdera, both of the old and of the new edition. Nevertheless Mr. Stevenson misrepresents that Pupil as having said that he had " been solely employed in copying Rymer's Collec- tanea." Nor is it strictly true that " he had not before transcribed any docu- ments of the age of Edward I.," for he had copied several volumes of the documents collected by Rymer under the reigns of Edward I., II. and III., and had transcribed and collated for me several original documents of equal antiquity, until I found that his inclination and ability lay more in another direction. Again, Mr. Stevenson, assenting to the Chairman, says that the occupation of that Pupil was " too mechanical," (3836,) and that the work was " hardly very different from that of an attorney's clerk." Thus, first he dismisses one who was an excellent transcriber (as to handwriting and exact- ness), and wanted only experience, because he was not classical enough to make Latin abstracts; and when he has one from a foremost class in Mer- chant-Tailors' School, who had been carefully schooled in the intellectual part of diplomatics, he is capricious enough to condemn his former occupation as " too mechanical," and to complain of teaching him " the rudiments of his business," because he could not well perfonn what he was not by me expected to be employed in. Indeed I told Mr. Stevenson, long ago, that the work of calendaring, after the method that he used, was too great a task to be com- mitted to any clerk, and ought to be done by himself. Nor is the complamt of the non-increase of my removed clerk's salary very considerable : for he did • *' Nicolas on the Public Records, p. 35."—" Nicolas, Observations on the State of H^t Escheat Rolls. 12.3 13. — Escheats of Manors, and Inquisitions relating to Alien Priories. 14. — Inquisitions by Escheators, &c. 15.— Inquisitions post mortem. 16 1 ' J. Special Commissions. 17. j 18. — Decrees and Orders of the Court. 19. — Fines. 20.— Taxation, 20. 15. 10. 21.^ 22. > Aids and Subsidies. — Rolls. 23. 3 24. 25. 26. 27., 28. — Pleas before the Barons. 29. 7 :;} Accounts of Collectors of Customs and Subsidies. Hearth-money, Records relating to. , Bonds and Recognizances. oO. I 31, — Collection of an entire tenth of Ecclesiastical Possessions. 32. — Indentures touching the Keepers of Taverns and sale of Wines. 33.— Poll Tax. 34. — Army Accounts. 35 1 ' > Wardrobe and Household Accounts. 36. 3 37. "J Accounts of Collectors of Taxes, &c.in leathern bags; the parti- 38. jf cular description already indorsed thereon. 39. — Informations, &c. 40. — Inrolment of Public Accounts. 41. — Memoranda. 42. — Ireland, Records relating thereto. 43.— Scotland, Do. 44.— Wales, Do. After making a selection from the contents of sacks containing unarranged and miscellaneous records, and giving a description of all of them, inasmuch as a written notice had been given to the King's Remembrancer of another removal of the records from the Mews being required by the next Lady-day 1833, the most eligible course was endeavoured to be adopted, with a view to the preservation of the records upon such removal; and in consequence, after 300 Supplement. Supplement, 301 being described, tbe records were put into sacks, in tbe manner above-men- tioned, in preference to shelves, or other aiTangement, which would be proper whenever they are deposited in a place where it is intended they should remain. Besides the above forty-four sacks so arranged and described, there remain, of miscellaneous unarranged and undescribed records, (except the general description which was endeavoured to be given by me of the whole of the unarranged and undescribed records, in a Report submitted to the Select Committee in 1800,) a large chest containing many records, which are cleaned, indorsed, tied up, and in a partial state of anangement ; — eighty-seven sacks to be examined, arranged and described, besides the immense mass; — two sacks of Inquisitions post mortem, seven sacks with books and papers relating to the Army, one sack of Bills and Answers and Depositions, one sack of books of Imprest Accounts, and twenty-one sacks of Defaulters in Taxes; — many sacks of Indentures of Appraisement, twelve boxes or trunks and chests filled with miscellaneous records, and one large chest at the foot of the staircase at the Mews, filled with Deeds, Bonds and Recognizances. And besides these, is the aforesaid immense mass in the north-east corner of the long room at the Mews, and in a dark room in Westminster Hall, near the Court of King's Bench. To reduce this unarranged mass of miscellaneous matter, wherever depo- sited, and w^hether consisting of records, or books, or writings on parchment and paper, part now in sacks, chests and boxes, and other part in a mass, into arrangement and use, (as all the records are again about to be removed from the Mews,) it would be of advantage probably to have the above-men- tioned unarranged records removed the last, for the sake of the space and room which would then be aiibrded to investigate and ascertain their contents by a few competent persons ; and thus, being left until after the removal of the an-anged and more valuable records, the latter would not be injured by the dust and dirt which a removal of the former would occasion. But it should be understood that the building remain untouched, for the purpose of executing such a service if approved ; and the object should be to withdraw from the heap and mass, such books, parchments, papers and writings, as would not in future be of any use, and consequently need no longer to be preserved. I beg leave to state, that, during the removal of the records from West- minster Hall to the King's Mews, in June, July, August, September and October 1831, which I attended, assisted by Mr. Adlington, one of the Side Clerks in the Office of the King's Remembrancer, and Mr. John Trickey, the Bag-bearer of the same office, other Nonas Rolls and Inquisitions, of the time of King Edward III., were found, viz. a fragment of the county of Hertford, and the counties of Northumberland, Saipp and Warwick ; and the two for- mer have been transcribed. The Nonae Rolls of Salop and Warwick have already been printed and published by the autliority of your Board. Salop was transcribed and printed fi*om an original roll, and Warwick from a manuscript copy of Dugdale's deposited in the Bodleian Library. The record of Salop, lately found, contains a fuller account of the inquisitions taken at the time, than the record already printed and published ; but neither the roll nor the inquisitions of the county of Northumberland had before been tran- scribed. The records of the Caption of Seisin of the Duchy of Cornwall, in Corn- wall, by Edward the Black Prince, in the eleventh year of the reign of Ed- ward III., are now transcribing. Were an original Account of the Earldom of Cornwall in the twenty-fifth of Edward I., and also an original Account of the Earldom and Duchy, which is contained in an Account of the Profits and Expenses for one year, from Michaelmas in the tenth, to Michaelmas in the eleventh, year of the reign of Edward HI., and which was au- dited in the twelfth year of the reign of the same King, transcribed, together with the Caption of Seisin, they would probably make a good sized folio volume, and be a most valuable Domesday of the Duchy ; that, should the originals be effaced by time, such authentic transcript might be resorted to, and protect and prevent the Ducliy of Cornwall, or any rights belonging thereto, from being lost, intruded upon, or usui-ped. These records of Cap- tion of Seisin, and the Accounts of the Earldom and Duchy of Cornwall, were newly discovered in the year 1793, when a removal of the Court of Exchequer, on the side of the King's Remembrancer, was superintended by me. As soon as the Caption of Seisin of the 11th Edward III. was so dis- covered, I made it known to the then Officers of the Duchy of Cornwall, and very soon afterwards presented to them an examined copy ; and it was under- stood that the record, immediately after it was known to the Duchy Officers, was of service and value in protecting some rights belonging thereto, but then not acknowledged : inasmuch as it was proved therefi-om that the Ad- vowson of the Deanery of St. Burian was parcel of and belonging to the Duchy of Cornwall, and belonged to the Prince of Wales and Duke of Corn- wall ; whereas it had been supposed and treated as patronage belonging to the Crown, sometime in and previous to the year 1793. The original records of Caption of Seisin, 11 Edw. III., and the Accounts 25 Edw. I. and 12 Edw. III., which had been newly discovered in 1793, were produced and read by me upon the trial at bar of Rowe and Brenton, in the Court of King's Bench; which trial commenced on the 19th, and con- tinued during the 20th, 21st, 22d, 24th, 25th, and 26th days of November, 1828; and the evidence elicited therefrom, it is believed, mainly contributed to induce the verdict which was given, and remains undisturbed, and thereby entitled the Dukes of Cornwall and the Crown to recover and to enjoy most valuable and important rights, which were intruded upon and intended to be usurped. I humbly submit whether it would not be of use and advantage to place particular descriptions of, or all the miscellaneous records, in the custody of a single person, as is already the practice with some now in the custody of the First and Second Secondaries of the Court, being sworn officers of the Court ; and particularly such as have long ceased to increase, but are valuable as 302 Supplement, ( 303 ) 'if I; i. "q|| evidence, yet do not belong to any class of record which relates to the admi- nistration of justice, and which continues to increase annually, for instance, the law and equity proceedings on the King's Remembrancer's side of the Court of Exchequer, that is. Bills, Answers, &c., and the Memoranda con- taining the Law Proceedings, and some others. Records of the latter de- scription annually increase. There have been frequent and rapid removals of the records, and to repo- sitories not exactly suited with proper accommodation for them ; these occur- rences have been very detrimental to them and their arrangement without more ; and from one consequence, which the removal in 1 822 produced, it would be very desirable again to collect and place together all records which have been printed or transcribed by the order or authority of your board, and which were once together, and in particular the Nonre Rolls and Inquisitions, and records which have been represented by me to your board under a general title of Monastic Records. These, and some other records were, before the removal in 1822, sorted, and together in boxes and presses at Westminster. I beg to state, that the omission of not making a Quarterly Report pro- ceeded entirely from forgetfulness, and that tlie Report which was made by Mr. Adlington and myself, and transmitted to the Board by the King's Remembrancer, occupied a considerable portion of time in the months of October, November, and December last. George Vanderzee. Kino's Remembrancer's Office, March Qth, 1833. VIII. Letter from the Reverend Joseph Hunter^ m the comparative utility of Transcription and Printing of Records, [Referred to at page 178.] ToRRiNCTON Square, My Dear Sir, 18 April, 1836. You have requested that I would furnish you with some remarks on the utility of transcripts that might be made of some of the more impor- tant series of the Public Records, and some of the most important of the in- sulated documents, and on this utility as compared with what I conceive to be the far greater utility of having the contents of them multiplied, preserved, and diffused by means of the press. You have desired that I would enter somewhat at large into the subject : but as, in the course of the observations which I shall have to offer, it may sometimes occur that I shall have occasion to advert to what has been my own experience, I trust you will excuse me, if, in complying with your request, I adopt the form of a letter rather than that of a more regular statement or ti'eatise. In the first place, then, it is unnecessary to call your attention to the evi- dent fact, that to have an authentic copy made of any record, and to have it placed in a depository remote from that in which the original is preserved, doubles the chance of preservation, and is therefore an additional guarantee for the transmission to future ages of the information which the record may contain. This remark applies both as respects accident from fire, or from any thing else which might sweep away whole masses of documents at once • and as respects that gradual loss of record evidence which may take place through the indifference or carelessness of a keeper, the unsuitable nature of a depository, or that almost imperceptible wasting of the frail and fragile substance to which the information is intrusted, from which no care and no caution in the handling and use of them can entirely protect them. It is to this circumstance that the transcripts, or abstracts, or extracts, made from the records by the antiquaries of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries owe much of their value, so as to entitle them to be regarded as a part of the great body of the record evidence of England. Both Dewes and Dodsworth, for instance, made what were nearly complete transcripts of the valuable record known as the Rotulus de Dominabus, &c. of the latter years of Henry II., or the first or second of Richard I. ; the original of which was some time ago supposed to be lost. And in Dodsworth's copious extracts from the Pipe Roll, heretofore called of the fifth of Stephen, we perceive that f \ I 1 m ao4 Supplement, in his time that record was in a somewhat more perfect state than it is at present ; and we are enabled from those extracts to supply a few words, which have now disappeared from the record itself. It is thus evident that something may be done by transcription for the pre* servation of the matter of the records, as well as for their protection when regarded as masses which may perish together in some common calamity. But it is not, I conceive, so much in reference to this point that you have called my attention to this subject, as to the point of the advantage of tran- scripts to persons engaged in historical or literary pursuits, which need the assistance of the record evidence of the country. Now, in reference to this point, it appears to me that, previously to any other inquiry, it is necessary to determine in what place it is intended that the transcripts shall be deposited j for I conclude that it is not intended to make more than one set of transcripts. I think I only anticipate what would be your reply, when I name the British Museum as the place in which it would be proposed to deposit the transcripts ; as it is to the British Museum that the Chancellor's Rolls, which are a species of transcript of the Pipe Rolls, have already been sent. I will therefore assume that the library of the Museum would be the place of deposit selected for the transcripts* and that the access to them would be regulated by the same principles by which the access to the other manuscripts in that depository is regulated. There cannot then, I apprehend, be a doubt that a valuable service would be rendered to literary inquirers, were such transcripts placed in the library of the Museum. Resort is now very frequently had to the Chancellor's Rolls, which would not have been the case had they remained in their former depository, even supposing there had been, which there was not, a disposition on the part of those who have the control of them to give facilities to the historical inquirer ; for resorting to them where they formerly were, is a very different thing from going to the Reading Room of the British Museum. At the Museum there is no sense of obligation, no feeling that we are occasion- ing trouble to those who would gladly avoid it, no thought that we are taking up the time of persons who have business of their own to which to attend, or occasioning personal inconvenience by intruding into the narrow spaces which are all that, in some of the principal offices, are allotted to the clerks in the exe • cution of their duties. At those offices the assistance of subordinate persons may be sometimes required, to whom the inquirer cannot in decency omit tu make some compensation. At the Museum, opportunities are provided for the convenient use of the manuscripts, while in the Record Offices there are not rooms, or seats, or desks, that can be conveniently resigned to persons who come there for the purposes of study, scarcely in some of the offices for a single inquirer ; and it would certainly be quite out of the question to afford the opportunity to several persons at the same time, however inclined the keepers might be to afford such facilities. I have found at the Chapter House, where there is every disposition to grant access to the literary inquirer, that I have myself, though going on the business of the Commission, been Supplement, 305 sometimes obliged to pursue my labours in a large waste apartment in the roof, without fire in the depth of winter, merely because all the better accom- modation happened to be wanted for the use of persons connected with the office. On another occasion, a literary inquirer was requested to pay his visit to the office another day, that the desk at which he was sitting might be at the service of a gentleman who came on business of the Record Commission. Yet this is an office in which there is ever)^ kind disposition towards such in- quirers. Again, at the Museum, a stranger would be furnished with better guides to the contents of the libraries, than he would be at the Record Offices. The system of cataloguing and calendaring is kept up more briskly there than it is, or can be, in the Record Offices. And though in the Record Offices a stranger might meet with every disposition to allow him access, this disposition might not include the placing in his hands such Catalogues, Calendars, or Indexes, as the office contained, that might guide him in his search ; for, after all, it must be admitted that it is a sacrifice on the part of the gentlemen who have the care of these documents, to allow the use of them ioJevery applicant to whom the denomination of literary inquii'er may pro- perly belong. Farther, the reading-room at the Museum is open more days and hours in the year than most of the Offices of Record. On these accounts, it seems to me that considerable advantage would result to literature and historical research were transcripts of records placed in the library of the British Museum ; and I should even anticipate, as an effect of sucli a measure, that it would produce in some minds the disposition to the studi/ of them, which, as affairs stand at present, is a thing wholly impracti- cable, — I mean the continued application of the mind to them, and the compa- rison of the matter of one document with that of another, in opposition to the mere casual inspection of some single document for the purpose of ascertain- ing some single point, or merely (as is not unfrequently the case) to deter- mine whether a previous extract has been correctly made. It is for this minor object that the literary inquirer is generally found resorting to these documents; — not that he may contemplate the authentic and curious informa- tion which these documents contain ; not that he may refresh himself in these fountains of oiu: history ; not that he may gather from them knowledge of the purest kind, respecting any event in our national history, or any institution that has grown up amongst us. The latter and higher object can only be attained by continued and assiduous application. It might be partially done in the reading-room of the Museum ; but in the Record Offices not at all. I had almost forgotten to add, that to many inquirers the transcripts would be in greater request than the originals, if made (as they would be) in a fair and legible hand, and especially if written, as I conceive they ought to be, in extenso. Even to the most experienced, the difficulties are considerable in using the originals themselves, owing to the great variety of contracts and cyphers, the great similarity in the fomis of many of the letters, and occa- sionally to the indolence or carelessness of the scribe, or the faded or 306 Supplement, decayed state of tlie original. At all events, were every other difficulty removed, this would present what would be felt as a great obstruction, which only a zeal, which may be called enthusiasm, would ever surmount. Having stated thus much, which is I think the utmost that can be said in favour of such a scheme, I must now observe, that the benefit of this tran- scription would be at most confined to persons who reside within an easy distance of the British Museum. But though London may be regarded as a centre of the literature of the country, yet it is by no means the residence of all persons who are engaged in those literary inquiries in which the assistance of these documents is peculiariy necessary. There is one entire class of in- quirers to whom those documents are of essential importance, who not only do not reside in London, but whom, on accoimt of the very nature and cha- racter of the subject on which they are engaged, we must rather expect to find in the country ; I mean topographers. Mr. Hodgson is in Northum- beriand, Mr. Raine in Durham ; so was the late Mr. Surtees ; Dr. Whitaker was in Lancashire, Mr. Baker is in Northamptonshire, Sir Richard Hoare in Wiltshire ; and Mr. Phelps in Somerset. Now, by these persons, little would be gained were transcripts placed in the library of the Museum ; for this plain reason, that they must resort to London if they wish to study them, and that they must remain there for a considerable length of time. This, m respect of most of the gentlemen above-named, would be impossible. So that for the purposes of topography, which these documents most essentially serve, and the historical department of which is to be filled up almost from this source alone, the placing of transcripts in the Museum would be of little avail. But we must not suppose that the disposition to various historical inquiry in other departments is confined to London, and to those persons who have opportunities of daily access to the Museum. There are innumerable persons dispersed over the country, or residing in the universities, who are more or less engaged in those researches which are best conducted by the help of docu- ments such as these; and the number of these would be much increased were the means of the advantageous engagement in them rendered easier to them. Of what use would it have been had a transcript of Domesday Book, for instance, however accurately or however intelligibly made, been placed in the Museum library, compared with placing copies of that record in public and private libraries, and putting it in the power of every man who desires it to bring the information which it contains within the range of his own private study? Of what use would a mere duplicate copy of the Rolls of Parliament have been, of the Taxation of Pope Nicholas, of the Valor, or of the Hundred Rolls? or of what use would it be to place transcripts of the early Close Rolls, or Patent Rolls, in the Museum, when compared with the diffusion of the matter of those records over the country in printed copies? Or take the instance of the Fadera. Suppose copies had been made of every docu- Supplement. 307 ment in that book, and placed in the library of the Museum ; would this have produced the thousandth part of the benefit which has arisen from the distribution of that work, at home and abroad, by means of the press ? In fact, I find, as I proceed, that the schemes scarcely admit of comparison in reference to the point of utility ; the extensive distribution by the press being so decidedly and eminently a means of increasing the utility of those writings, superior to the mere preparation of one duplicate copy, to be placed in one stated depository. I regard the early records as so many historical writings. Many of them are actually of the nature of annals, and some of them may aspire to the character of historical treatises. The question there- fore of the printing of them, is but the question whether certain antient histo- rical writings now existing in but a single copy, shall be given to the world. Call them chronicles, and I imagine few persons would be found to think that a nation's treasure was not well expended in diffusing and perpetuating the information they contained ; and yet how much superior in the points of information and authenticity are the Close and Patent Rolls to many of the chronicles ! How necessary is the information which they contain, to support or to correct the information given us in the chronicles ! The only question seems to be, what of- the early records may be left un- printed with the least injury to historical inquiry ? It is a mere question of finance. And there is a great deal remaining unprinted, which, by the con- current voice of all such inquirers, I venture to say would be pronounced to require being given to the public. Reverting, however, again to the question of the comparative value of a written transcript in the Museum library and a printed book, I would observe, that whatever is gained by the former plan in the points of preserva- tion and easiness of perusal, is much more effectually secured when docu- ments such as these are committed to the press. The press is the surest guardian of whatever is come down of the thoughts or the deeds of our ancestors ; and however fair and legible a manuscript copy may be, it is found by all persons that they prefer greatly the printed page. Beside the printed copies of these documents would, or ought to be, accompanied with indexes, prefaces, and any other apparatus for the convenient use of the volume. One advantage of the multiplication of copies by means of the press is to save the time of literary men, which must otherwise be consumed in the un- intellectual process of transcription. The press enables them to obtain at a cheap rate that which, if they wish to possess it, they must upon any other plan pay dearly for in time or money. Documents once prmted, need scarcely under any circumstances be again transcribed. Whatever facilities may be afforded for study in the reading-room of the Museum, above those which are afforded in the Record Offices them- selves, those facilities are, it is presumed, nothing when compared with the facilities of the inquirer's own study ; into which the records may be brought in the form of books, and where the information which they contain may be x2 li) 308 Supplement, compared, record with record, record with chronicle, and record with the previous impressions, or the general views, of the student's own mind. This, my dear sir, is the chief of what has occurred to me on the subject to which you have desired me to turn my attention. I am sensible that more might be said, but in fact, as I stated before, it is almost self-evident that it i« more desirable to have five hundred copies of any writing of value than one. The question seems to be, whether the advantages are so much greater as to warrant the expenditure necessary to secure them. For my own part, I value so highly whatever extends, be it only in a small measure, the field of human knowledge, whatever makes tliat known which was imknown before, that I regard with a deep feeling of respect the man who determines only a spe- cies of the minutest moss, or the meanest insect, who detects some little speck or unobserved motion in the heavens above, who brings to light some hitherto undescribed coin, or who restores some passage in an antient author, that I am not likely soon to concede that the national treasure would be ill laid out, which gives to us almost any portion of the early record matter of our nation. When I look at the works published by the former com- missions, or at those which have been published by the present commis- sion, there is not one in which I do not perceive that it has brought some valuable accession to the stores of human knowledge, and that it may be used with advantage by those minds which know how to avail them- selves of the information which is set before them, and I see very much remaining at present entirely unknown, waiting the command of his Majesty and Pariiament, to tell us of the deeds of our forefathers, of the origin and progress of our national institutions, and to illustrate the antient greatness and glory of the noble nation to which we belong. I am, my dear Sir, Your veiy faithfid and obedient servant, Joseph Hunter, Supplement, 309 transactions, he left some behind, which were not less worthy of a place in his work than some which he has admitted. Of the rolls, to which he had re- course, but a small portion has yet been printed. It may also be remarked, that the question of printing the most antient and valuable of our records, is to be looked at in its bearing on the historical literature, not of England only, but of Europe. The Fadem has always been considered as contributing essentially to our national glory. C. P. Cooper, Esq. &c. &c. &c. Secretary to the Hon. Board of Commissioners on the Public Records. P.S. I would be permitted to draw your attention to one fact, which it appears to me is too Httle attended to in respect of the question of the printing of records. Rymer's Fadera is a work of admitted importance. There can be no question about it. Both in English literature and in European litera- ture it holds, and desen-edly, an exalted position. It changed, in fact, the whole face of our national history, and it has shed light upon the history of every other nation of modem Europe. It has even had a kind of popularity, for there had been three editions of it, large as it is, before the edition under- taken by the former Record Board. Two of these were private speculations of booksellers. Now this work consists, for the most part, of excerpts out of the national records. But as his plan was to illustrate chiefly the foreign relations of the countr>', documents purely domestic would be in a great mea- sure passed over by him as not so well adapted to his design. Yet many such there must needs be in the rolls, out of which he excerpted most of thoae which he has published. Even of documents relating to our foreign ( 310 ) Supplement, 311 i Comparative Lists of Works produced by the Fonner Commission, in a period correspmiding with the duration of the Present Commission, to March, 1836. [Referred to at page 180.] (i.) List of the Works produced by the Former Commission during the years 1826—1830. PRINTED WORKS. The First Volume of Cdendars of Proceedings in Chancery, in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Printing begun November 1821, finished March 1827. The Second Volume of Calendars to the Pleadings, &c. in the Duchy of Lancaster. Printing begun March 1824, finished March 1827. The First Volume of the Parliamentary Writs. Printing begun IMay 1825, finished November 1827. The Chronological Index to the Statutes of the Realm, from Magna Charta to the end of the reign of Queen Anne. Printing begun February 1825, ended March 1828. The Fourth Volume of the Calendars of Inquisitions post Mortem. Printing begun February 1822, finished December 1828. Volume II., Divisions i. and ii. of the Parliamentary Writs. Printing begun September 1827, finished March 1830. The Second Volume of Calendars of Proceedings in Chancery in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Printing begun November 1827, finished April 1830. The King's Printers' Bill for this volume, amounting to 1,382/. 4s. 6d., was included in the sum of 2,929/. 13s. lOd. paid by the i'reasury to Messrs. Eyre and Spottis- M'oode in 1831, and deducted out of the Parhamentary Grant of 10,500/. for that year. Volume III. Part ii. of the New Edition of Rymer's Foedera. All the above mentioned volumes are in large folio. WORKS TRANSCRIBED. It does not appear that any Transcripts were made by the Old Board during the period in question, with the exception of those intended for the works in a course of being printed, and of such others as may have been produced by the clerks of Sir Francis Palgrave, and remained hi his possession. (ii.) List of the Works produced by the Present Commission during the years 1831 — 1836. PRINTED WORKS. 1 . Volumes left incomplete by the Old Board. Appendix and General Index to the Valor Ecclesiasticus, temp. Hen.VIII. This forms the Sixth and concluding Volume of the work. Division III. of Vol. II. of the Parliamentary Writs, &c. in the reign of Edward II. This Division contains 1493 pages. lliird Volume of the Calendar to the Records of the Duchy of Lancaster in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Third Volume of the Calendars to the Proceedings in Chancery in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Although the printing of these four volumes (all in large folio) was com- menced under the Old Board, yet it paid no part of the King's Printers' bills in respect of iheni ; it being at that time the usage that such bills should not be sent in until the volume was completed at press. The ex- pense, therefore, of printing, paper, See. for the entire volumes, has been borne by the present Commission. 2. New Works. Rotuli Litterarum Clausarum in Turn Londinensi asservati, ab anno 1204 ad annum 1224. (Large folio.) Rotuli Litterarum Patentium in Turri Londinensi asservati, a. d. 1201 — 1216. (Large folio.) A General Introduction to Domesday Book, accompanied by Indexes of the tenants in chief and under-tenants at the time of the survey, as well as of the holders of land mentioned in Domesday anterior to the formation of that record, with an Abstract of the Population of England at the close of the reign of William the Conqueror. (2 vols. 8vo.) Proceedings and Ordinances of the Privy Council in the reigns of Richard II., Henry IV., Henry V. and Henry VI. (5 vols. 8vo.) Rotulus Magnus Pip« de anno tricesimo Regis Henrici Primi, commonly called the Roll of Stephen. (8vo.) Rotuli Normanniie in Turri Londinensi asservati, Johanne et Henrico V. Angliae Regibus. (8vo.) Rotuli de Oblatis et Finibus in Turn Londinensi asservati, tempore Regis Johannis. (8vo.) Excerpta e Rotidis Finium in Turri Londinensi asservatis, Henrico Tertio Rege. (8vo.) Fines, sive Pedes Finium, sive Finales Concordiae in Curia Domini Regis, A. D. 1195— 1214. (8vo.) 312 Supplement. ^ Supplement. 313 I Rotuli Curife Regis, of the reigns of Richard I. and John, preserved at the Chapter House. (2 vols, 8vo.) Miscellaneous Records selected from the Chapter House :— Rotulus Litte- rarum Patentium de anno regni Regis Johannis septimo ; Transcripta Litte- rarum Patentium Hibemiae, temporibus Regum Henrici Quinti et Sexti ; Placita anno 52 Regis Henrici Tertii, de terris datis et occupatis occasione tiurbationis in regno Angliae. (8vo.) The Chancellor's Roll, or Antigraph of the Great Roll of the Pipe, of the third year of King John, preserved at the Chapter House, Westminster. (8vo.) Materials for the History of Britain. This volume is printed, with the exception of the Prolegomena. The principal contents are — Gildas, Nennius, Bede, the Saxon Chronicle, the Welsh Chronicle, Asser, Athelweard's Chro- nicle, Florence of Worcester, Henry of Huntingdon, Simeon of Durham, &c. (FoUo.) Although this volume is not quite complete, it is inserted here, as nearly tlie whole of the bill for printing and paper has been actually paid. Selections from the Miscellaneous Records of the Office of the King's Re- membrancer of the Exchequer. (Folio.) Proceedings of His Majesty's Commissioners on the Public Records of the Kingdom, June 1832 to August 1833. This volume contains numerous ex- tracts from the early Wardrobe Accounts, the Memoranda Rolls, the Placita Curiae Regis, the early Fines, &c., and copies of numerous short antient records and documents. (Folio.) An Accoimt of the most important Public Records of Great Britain, and the Publications of the Record Commissioners, together with other miscella- neous, historical, and antiquarian information. (2 vols. 8vo.) Chronological Catalogue of all Diplomes, Royal Letters, and other docu- ments, transcribed for the Supplement to Rymer*s Foedera. (8vo.) Catalogue of Documents relating to English History, from the year 790 to the close of the fifteenth century, preserved in the Archives of France, Hotel Soubise, Paris. (8vo.) List of Manuscripts and Documents connected with British history and literature, in the Libraries and Archives of Germany, Switzerland, &c. (8vo.) An Introduction to the Valor Ecclesiasticus of King Henry VIIL, with a Map of England and Wales, showing the distribution in Dioceses. (8vo.) A Description of the Patent Rolls, and an Itinerary of King John. (8vo.) Modus Tenendi Parliamentum. (8vo.) 3. Works Transcribed, Catalogue of the Manuscripts and State Papers belonging to the most noble the Marquis of Sahsbury, at Hatfield House. — Vol. I. Miscellaneous MSS. and Papers. Vol. II. Letters, Particular and General Arrangement to 1597. Vol. III. Letters, General Arrangement, 1597 to 1602; Vol. IV. Letters, General Arrangement, 1602-3 to 1643. Petitions in Chancery, of the reigns of Edward III., Richard II., Henry IV., Heniy V., Henry VL and Edward IV. The Letters Missive in the Tower, sent by the King to the Lord Chancel- lor, ordering the execution of various mandates. They extend from the reign of Richard II. to that of Richard III. inclusively, relative solely to domestic affairs, are all written in English, upon paper, and if printed would occupy three octavo volumes. Memoranda de Tradition e Magni Sigilli Anglise, e Rotulis Cancellarias excerpta. Appendix to the volume of the Inquisitiones Nonarum. An immense mass of Transcripts, Diplomes, Letters, and other public documents, from the Archives and Libraries of Paris, Lille, Ghent, Bruxelles, Antwerp, St. Omer, Hamburg, Konigsberg, Dresden, Munich, Stuttgard, Vienna, St. Gall, Rome, Lisbon, &c. These will be, for the most part, used for the Supplement to Rymer's Foedera. Manuscript Collectanea of Rymer hi the British Museum. The transcrij)- tion is complete to the end of the reign of Henry IV. There are also tran- scribed one volume of the reign of Henry V., and two volumes of the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Three other volumes of the reign of Henry V. are now in progress. Letters of Frederick, Elector Palatine and King of Bohemia, to his wife Elizabeth, daughter of James I., written between the years 1612 and 1632. Antient Historical Records and Documents in the possession of the Cor- poration of Salisbuiy. In a course of transcription. Foreign State Letters in the Tower of London, being Letters from the Kings of France and Spain, the Kings of the Romans, the Dukes of Norway and the Earls of Holland and Flanders, addressed to the Kings of England, and written during the period that elapsed from the beginning of the reign of Henry III. to the end of the reign of Richard III. A considerable number transcribed for the press. French Rolls, commencing with the 16th year of Henry 111., and ending with the reign of Edward IV. Partly transcribed for the press. Transcripts made by Sir Francis Palgrave's Clerks since the present Coni' mission issued, and not designed for works editing under his direction, are not noticed. The same continue in his custody. 4. Catalogues, Calendars, and Abstracts. A full and minute Catalogue of the Manuscripts, 121 in number, which were bequeathed by Sir Matthew Hale to the honourable Society of Lincoln's Inn, and are preserved in their Library. Amongst these Manuscripts are 314 Supplement* Supplement, 315 h several volumes made up of papers written or collected by Selden, numerous transcripts of Records, Year Books and Reports, many of which have never been printed, Chronicles, and other historical and juridical writings. (Manu- script.) These manuscripts are very little known, chieHy by reason of the restrictions which the learned Judge imposed upon the Society in respect of the use of them. A similar Catalogue of a collection of Manuscripts relating to history records and law, made by Mr. Sergeant Maynard, in 87 volumes. These are also in the Library of Lincoln's Inn. (Manuscript.) A similar Catalogue of the remaining Manuscripts in that Library, 271 volumes, many of which are only modem Reports or notes of Cases, but amongst them are many volumes of great curiosity and value. (Manuscript.) An Abstract of Ecclesiastical Surveys made dming the Commonwealth, now in the Archive of the Archbishop of Canterbury at Lambeth, bound in 24 large volumes. These Surveys are :— 1. Of lands and other possessions belonging to the Bishop and to the Deans and Chapters. 2. Of the state of the Parishes in respect of spiritual superintendence, ministers' maintenance, &c., with suggestions in respect of the union or division of Parishes. The Surveys of this class are not complete. An Account of the Manuscripts in the Public or University Library at Cambridge, which relate to Records, Law, or History ; formed, for the most part, from the unfinished Catalogue of them made by Nasniith. A similar Account of the Manuscripts of the same Class in the Libraries of the several Colleges of that University. A minute and full Account of the contents of the 161 volumes of Legal and Historical Collections, made by Roger Dodsworth, an Antiquary of the former half of the seventeenth century, now in the Bodleian Library at Oxford. These volumes contain an immense number of transcripts from the public records, both of the Chancery and of the Exchequer, as they existed two cen- turies ago, and from charters, both public and private, which no longer exist. Catalogues of the Manuscripts in the Libraries of All-Souls, Queen's, New College, and other colleges in the University of Oxford, intended to supply the deficiencies of the only printed catalogues of the manuscripts in those Hbraries, namely those in the foHo volume, entitled " Catalogi MSS. Anglise et Hibemiae," pubUshed in 1697. A Calendar of the documents and an Account of the other matters con- tained in the " Liber de Antiquis Legibus," a manuscript in the possession of the Corporation of the City of London, and, historically, the earliest and most important manuscript possessed by them. A Calendar of the numerous documents entered in the office-book of the Exchequer, known by the name of the " Liber Rubeus," or the Red Book of the Exchequer, with an account of the other contents of that volume. A Calendar of Orders and Decrees in the Court of Augmentations, firom the feast of St. George in 28 Henry VIII., to the end of the reign of Ed- ward VI. This Calendar is formed from the Inrohnent Books in the custody of the second Secondary of the King's Remembrancer of the Exchequer. A fair copy in two large volumes folio has been placed in the British Museum for public use, which are numbered 9781 and 9782 in the Catalogue of " Ad- ditional Manuscripts." Mr. Caley gave the original instructions for the compilation of this Calendar, but the work was performed since the present Commission issued, and has been paid for out of its funds. A Catalogue of the Miscellaneous Manuscripts and Records in the custody of the King's Remembrancer of the Exchequer, arranged as far as is practi- cable in chronological order. This contains numerous articles, the existence of which was lately quite unknown. Ad Monumenta insularum Britannicarum, Historica et Litteraria, quae in diversis Bibliothecis tam publicis quam privatis urbis Romae extant, collectio prima. Monumentorum Britannige Antiquitates concementium, quae in diversis urbis Romee armariis extant, collectio secunda. Monumentorum Britannite Antiquitates concementium, quae in diversis urbis Romae vel etiam in aliis Italiae armariis habentur, collectio tertia. Bibliotheca Britannica, sive Monumenta medii aevi ad res, sive historicas, sive litterarias Magnae Britanniae spectantia, quae in diversis armariis vel Romae vel aliamm partium Italiae habentur, collectio quarta. Bibliothbque Royale. — Catalogue des MSS. relatifs a I'Histoire d'Angle- terre, d'Ecosse, et d'Irlande. 5. Works being compiled or prepared for the press. Catalogue of the inedited Manuscripts and Papers illustrative of the general and local History of the Country, preserved in the Bodleian Library at Oxford, and not described in any printed work, ('oropiling. Miscellaneous unarranged Records at the Tower of London. An Abstract or Catalogue is framing. A Selection of the most curious will be transcribed and printed. Appendix to the four volumes of Calendars of the Inquisitions post Mor- tem, preserved in the Tower. This is the " Calendarium Haeredum : " considerable progress has been made in this compilation. Calendars of the Assize, Plea, Iter, Coroners', and other Judicial RoUs, in the Record Office of the Treasury of the Exchequer. Preparing for the press. 316 Supplement* Calendars of the Inquisitions post Mortem, and Privy Seals, in the same repository. Preparing for the press. The Great Rolls of Normandy of the reign of Henry II. Transcribed for the press. New Edition of the Anglo-Saxon Laws, in folio and octavo. Preparing for the press. In the foregoing List, with the exception of the volume of Materials for the History of Britain, those volumes only arc inserted v/hich are finished at press. The works in progress at the press, or of which the printing has been sus- pended until the finances of the Board shall be placed on a more satisfactory footing, are the following: — The Second Volume of the Close Rolls. (Fol.) This will complete the reign of Henry IlL The Sixth and Seventh Volumes of the Acts of the Privy Council. These will bring down the work to the year 1547. The Second Volume of Excerpts from the Fine Rolls of the reign of Henry III. The Second Volume of Fines. The Third Volume of the Rolls of the Curia Regis. The Second Volume of the Abstract of all Diplomes, Royal Letters, and other documents transcribed for the Supplement to Rymer's Fcedera. Docquets of all Commissions, Grants of Honours, Pardons, and other Patents of Charles I., while he was at Oxford, from 1G42 to June 164G. From the original Docquet-books preserved in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford, and the Office of the Clerk of the Letters- Patent. (8vo.) Printed, and will shortly be published. The Antlent Calendars and Inventories of the Treasury, Vol. I., containing Bishop Stapleton's Calendar. The Memoranda of the Treasury of the reign of Edward IIL, and illustrative records. Printed, and will shortly be published. The like, Vol. II., containing the Memoranda of the Treasury for the reigns from Richard II. to Henry VI. inclusively ; Inventories of the Pkite and Jewels in the Treasury at different periods, and Agard's Compendium. Printed, and will shortly be published. The like, Vol. IIL, containing the Memoranda of the Treasury from Ed- ward IV. to Henry VIIL inclusively; the Indentures and Writs of Deposit and Transmission from Edw. I. to George XL, and illustrative documents. Printed, and will shortly be published. Supplement, Sir New Edition of the Antient Welsh Laws, in folio and in 8vo. Printing. Inedited Documents, relating to, and elucidating the Antient History of Scotland, from Alexander III. to Robert I. Vol. I. 8vo. Printing. Magnus Rotulus Pipse de anno secundo regis Henrici Secundi. 8vo. Printing. Magnus Rotulus Pipae de anno primo regis Richardi Primi. 8vo. Printing. The Liberate Rolls of the reigns of John and Henry the Third. 8ro. Printing. The Charter Rolls of the reigns of John and Henry the Third Folio. The text of the first volume is printed. The Gascon Rolls, commencing with the twenty -sixth year of Henry the Third, and ending with the thirty-ninth year of Henry the Sixth. Folio. Printing. A volume of Records, supplemental to Domesday Book, consisting of Ter- ritorial Surveys to the time of King John. Folio. Printing. A Territorial Survey of Lands in Wales, to the time of King Edward III. Folio. Printing. Catalogues or Inventories of Records in the Augmentation Office :— namely, A Calendar of the Surveys of the estates of King Charles the First, his Queen, and the Prince of Wales, taken pursuant to ordinances of Pariiament in the time of the Commonwealth; Original Surrenders made by certain Religious Houses, now extant in the Office; List of Ministers' Accounts for Bedford- shire and Berkshire. Folio. Printing. Nearly all the expenses attending the editing, compiling and transcribing of these unfinished volumes have been paid. Beside the works above described, various Reports and Papers have been printed, of which some few only have been published, the remainder being designed for the private use of the Board. Of these Reports and Papers the following are the principal:— Mr. Illingworth's Observations on the Public Records of the Four Courts at Westminster, and on the measures recommended by the Committee of the House of Commons in 1800, for rendering them more accessible to the public 8vo. 318 Supplement. Supplement, 319 ili-i Sir Francis Palgrave's Essay on tlie origin of Equitable Jurisdiction, as deduced from the antient transactions of the high court of Parliament. 8vo. A Proposal for the erection of a General Record Office, Judges' Hall and Chambers, and other buildings, on the site of the Rolls Estate. Svo. Papers relative to the project of building a General Record Office, with Plans. Svo. Report of the Committee on the utility and expediency of collecting and publishing the Constitutional Records, from the conquest, to the accession of Edward I. Svo. Observations on the Calendars of the Proceedings in Chancery, and on the Parliamentary Writs. Svo. Report of the Committee on the mode of remunerating the Sub-Commis- sioners. Svo. Letter from the right reverend the Bishop of Llandaff, to the right honor- able the Speaker, upon the Parliamentary Writs. Svo. Letter from Mr. Protheroe, one of the Commissioners, addressed to the Secretary, upon the continuation of the Parliamentary Writs. Svo. Report of the Committee on the Calendars of the Proceedings in Chancery in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Svo. Correspondence of the Secretarj' with Thomas Thomson, Esq. Deputy Clerk Register; Memorial of Robert Pitcairn, Esq. Writer to the Signet; Reports of the Deputy Clerk Register from 1S22 to 1S31. Svo. La Commission des Archives d'Angleterre aux Savans et Antiquaires Franpais. Die Archiv Commission Gross Britanniens an die Alterthumsforscher Deutschlands und des nordlichen Europas. Svo. Memoria da Commissao dos Arquivos da Gran Bretanha dirigida aos Cartorios Bibliothecarios e Antiquarios de Portugal, pelo que respeita aos trabalhos e exames de mesma Commissao. Svo. The Bill of John Bayley, Esq., Principal Clerk in the Record Office at the Tower, for searches, office copies, &c., of records, relative to the claim of the Corporation of Liverpool to the town-dues. Folio, pp. 32. First.— Cleaning, sorting and repairing, &c. of Records. The following extracts from the Return made to the House of Commons in December 1833, will give some notion of the extent of the operations of the Board in this de- partment. " There is an important work which is carried on with the greatest diligence under the orders of the Board, that is to say, the operation of clean- ing, sorting, repairing, &c., records and manuscripts in different offices. Some notion of the extent of this operation may be formed from the fact, that in the Augmentation Office alone 15,4S3 records have been cleaned, flatted, &c. since the 22nd of June," &c. &c. Again, (the Return adopts the words of a Report to the Board) " much sortation of the miscellaneous records of the King's Remembrancer's Office has taken place. Many thousand writs, charters, inquisitions and small in- struments have been cleaned, many arranged, and all the remainder ready for arrangement, &c. These miscellaneous records were formerly in the wooden shed in Westminster Hall, where great numbers were destroyed by the damp : and they have recently, under a warrant from the Treasury, been transferred to the custody of the Record Commissioners. They are for the most part of great value. Many of the same class were purloined and sold about three years ago, when several were purchased by Sir Thomas Phillipps, who gave for one the sum of 110/., and for another the sum of 73/. 10s. The Trustees of the British Museum also bought several ; two of them at the price of 51/. 12s. each." The sum actually disbursed from March 1833, to December 1835, for the cleaning, sorting, repairing, &c. of the Records, was not less than 6000/. Second. — King's Printer's bills for binding, carriage, postage and other expenses attending the presentation of the publications of the Boards, in his Majesty's name, to different libraries and other repositories at home and abroad. These bills, from March 1833 to December 1835, amount to 2191/. 19s. lid.) of which, however, part only has been actually paid. Third. — The Library. The books may be divided into three classes. 1. Palaeographical books in all languages. 2. Books purchased for the new edition of Rymer's Foedera. 3. Books bought for the use of the Editors, Sub-Editors, Clerks, and other persons in the employ of the Board. The total cost of the Library is stated, in the Return made to the House of Commons in January last, to be the sum of 1576/. 13s. Zd. It remains, for the completement of the foregoing comparison, that I should mention three items in the expenditure of the New Board, which it is noto- rious must greatly exceed the items of the same kind in the expenditure of the Old Board, and which from their products deserve a particular notice. The items to which I allude are the following :— ( 320 ) X. Two Papers concerning the Valor Ecclesiasticus. [Referred to at page 183.] (i.) Statement respecting an alleged discovery of some portions of the Valor Ecclesiasticus. An Act of Henry VIII. gave to the Crown the first fiuits and tenths of ec- clesiastical benefices, and other revenues that had formerly belonged to the papal see; and a survey was made of all church dignities and livings, in order to ascertain the amount of such first fruits and tenths. This survey took place between the months of January and June 1535 ; and the Valor con- sists of the returns made into the Exchequer by the Commissioners appointed to execute that survey. Some of the returns made by them have been lost ; and the loss has been in some instances supplied at the discretion of the Edi- tors, sometimes by means of the information supplied to those Commissioners, and out of which they formed their returns, where any documents which supplied that information could be found, and sometimes by means of later surveys ; but most frequently from the Liber Vaiorumj which is an ofiicial abstract of the returns made while they were entire. It may be well to fur- nish three or four instances of this. First instance, Vol. I. p. 129.— There are returns made of the endowments on officers in the church of Wells, in the time of Edward the VI. and of EHzabeth, to remedy, as it seems, the imperfections of the Valor. Second instance .—Amongst the portions of the record lost are, the whole diocese of Ely, a great portion of the diocese of London, the counties of Berks, Rutland and Northumberland, and much of the returns for the dio- cese of York, including the whole deaneries of Rydal and Craven. In respect of the benefices in these districts, the Liber Vulorwn has been used, in which we have only the clear values of the benefices, without the par- ticulars. Third instaJtce.—A very valuable return of the particulars of the endow- ments on the Prior, Sub-Prior, and twelve other officers in the Priory of Saint Swithin at Winchester, in which church was the seat of the Bishop of the diocese, will be found printed in the Appendix. (Vol. VI. p. vi.— x.) The value of this document arises from the return in the Valor, (Vol. II. p. 2,) being without any particulars, only certain gross sums being inserted. Fourth instance.— A fragment (the earlier portions being lost) of the return for the Monastery of Coggeshall, in the Diocese of London, is printed in the Supplement, S2l Appendix. (Vol. VI. p. x.— xi.) Of the property of this Monastery there was before no account given, except the single line from the " Liber Valorum" in Vol. I. p. 444 ; nearly the whole of the returns of the diocese of London having, as I have just now said, been lost. Now it is impossible to say that, in some part of the kingdom, at some time or other, surveys may not be found that might supply other defects in the Valor; but no one acquainted with the subject, acquainted with the utility of this record, this Ecclesiastical Domesday, will venture to say that the former Commissioners ought to have waited until it could be ascertained that no farther illustration could be obtained, before they ordered its publica- tion. This might be to wait for ever. But it is alleged that portions of the Valor itself have been lately disco- vered. I presume that allusion is made to a volume at the Augmentation Office, which has been recently bound, consisting of one hundred and thirty- four leaves, on each of which is mounted some portion of what appears to have been a book, written in the hand of the reign of Henry the VIII. ; except on pages 1 and 6 ; on which are mounted leaves of a manuscript of a much earlier date, and having no connection with the other matter in the vo- lume. This volume is lettered at the back " Valores Ecclesiastic, in WaUia, temp. Henry VIII. Augmentation Office." Very much of the book, books, or rolls, here mounted, is in the very last stage of decay ; consisting of small bits, or mere fragments, and the writing often nearly obliterated. Enough, however, remains to show distinctly what it has been, namel}', information supplied to the Commissioners, out of which to frame their return ; which return (it scarcely needs to be repeated) alone constitutes the " Valor Eccle- siasticus.'* It relates to four religious houses, Kymmer, Bardsey, Bassingwerk and Llanlugan, and to sundry benefices in the dioceses of Bangor and Saint Asaph, in which also those religious houses were situate. The volume may therefore be not improperly described as Information collected by the Com- missioners in the Dioceses of Bangor and Saint Asaph out of which to frame their Returns. But those returns, thence framed by the Commissioners, exist, and are printed in the fourth volume of the Valor : there can therefore be no pretense for caUing these fragments portions of the Valor, unless it be shown that they were certified by the Commissioners as part of their return, which is in itself exceedingly improbable, and of which they exhibit not the slightest trace. I may further remark, however, that, amongst the supplementary matter printed in the sixth volume, there is, at pp. xiv. — xlv. a mass of similar mate- rials for the return which was made concerning those two dioceses. Those materials were collected and bound in a volume some years ago ; and it may seem that the decayed fragments, which have been recently mounted, were then thought scarcely worthy of being bound with the rest ; all of which is in excellent preservation ; and certainly there is but little of it which could now be safely used, even if circumstances were to arise which might render it expedient to search for any thing which might be supposed to tlirow light 322 Supplement. upon corresponding passages in the Valor, Instead also of filling a volume, like one of those printed, if every thing that could by any means be read were to be transcribed and printed, it would not (I beUeve) fill twenty pages. Five and twenty would, I am confident, be beyond the amount. (ii.) Refutation of so much of Mt\ Hardy s Evidence as relates to the Valor Ecclesiasticus. The assertion made by Mr. Protheroe, in support of his scheme of post- poning publication to arrangement, that " a considerable portion of the Valor Ecclesiasticus, relative to Wales, has been discovered in the Augmentation Office," since the publication of that work and its supplemental volume, (Evi- dence, num. 1294,) has been already denied with good reason by Mr. Cooper, (num.' 1829-35,) and ably refuted by Mr. Hunter (num. 3184-5). But Mr. Hardy having revived the subject, and argued it in a new form, and his opinion having the entire concurrence of Mr. Cole, (num. 4711,) it appears needful to examine the Evidence of these latter witnesses; and that for two reasons,— first, because the integrity of a most important record is impeached by this assertion; and secondly, because on the proof of it the scheme of Mr, Protheroe is founded. The first question on this subject, put by the Chairman to Mr. Hardy, is as to •* the correctness of a statement that has been made, that, after the print- " ing of the Valor Ecclesiasticus, a portion of the materials for that ivork was " found in the Augmentation Office." (num. 3706.) If in this leading ques- tion the phrase "materials for that work " mean only matter which ought to have formed part of the pubUcation, the subject-matter of the controversy re- mains the same ; but if by that term it was intended to signify the materials used in the original construction of the Valor, then it appears that the ground first taken by Mr. Protheroe is very considerably shifted from ; for the whole question turns on this point, whether the document in question be actiuiUy an indispensable part of the Valor, or may have been " materials " from which the record itself was composed. The Chairman, proceeding to ask Mr. Hardy for any infonnation or opinion thereon, with reference to Mr. Hunter's declaration that the document was not a part of the record in question and ought not to have entered into the work,— receives the following answer. " I have seen the portion that has been found, and compared it with the por- tion printed in the supplemental volume ; and I am of opinion that, had " the portion found by Mr. Cole been known at the time when the supple- " mental volume was in progress, it ought to have been printed in preference " to what was printed. My reason for thinking so is, that many portions of *' the volume in question are printed from documents which appear to be « originals, and similar to that portion found by Mr. Cole." In order fairiy to consider this answer, the contents of the * supplemental (( Supplement. 323 volume* must be described. By that designation is meant the " Appendix," contained in the sixth volume of the publication called the Valor Ecclesias- ticus, of which it occupies the pages marked i — xlv, exclusively of its pecu- liar indexes ; and it consists of seven documents ; of which four were ob- tained from the Augmentation Office, and the second, fourth, and fifth, were found in the Chapter House. They are — 1. Two precepts from the Commissioners for the survey of the diocese of Norwich, to John Ruste, Dean of the rural deanery of " Hecham," (dated 23 March and 3 April, 26 Hen. VIII.) commanding him to warn all his clergy to "make and cause to be made in writing a true, clere, distincte par- ticuler, and severall yerli values " of all their spiritualities and temporalities, and to appear therewith at certain prescribed times ; these precepts are fol- lowed by the accounts thereupon brought in. (pp. i — v.) That this is not part of the record of the Valor is clear, from the fact that the original valua- tion of the diocese of Norwich is preserved in the First Fruits Office, and is printed in the third volume; and the heading of it, signed by the Commis- sioners, expressly declares that it was made " tam per scnitinium et examina- tionem diversorum compotorum rcntalium et aliarum cvidcntiarum earundem personarum spiritualium, quam per examinationem diversonnn personarum aliquam notitiam habentium " (etc.) and that the return to their commission consisted of " sixteen rolls of parchment, de recordo." By a comparison of pages 374-5 of that volume, it plainly appears that this appendix can be no- thing more than some of the vouchers used by the Commissioners in framing that record, consisting of a parchment and siuidry papers, bound up into a thin folio volume by Mr. Caley. 2. Particulars of the lands and rents belonging to the Monastery of S. Swithin, at Winchester, (pp. vi — x.) This is not part of the record of the Valor; for the original valuation of the diocese of Winchester is preserved whole in its proper repository, consisting of t^vo writs of dedimus potestate?ii, (dated 1 Feb. anno 26,) with the oath administered unto the Commissioners, and the certificate of return to their commission, expressly mentioning certahi " libros ac lihellos verum valorem, &c. in se continentes," as well as the com- mission and instructions annexed. These are printed in the second volume of the work, on the first page ; and the two next pages contain the valuation of the Monastery of S. Swithin, as digested and certified by the Commis- sioners, referring for farther particulars "ut patet per quaternum manibus Commissariorum domini Regis signatum." But this appendix has not their signatures, and therefore cannot be the quire which accompanied their return as a voucher. 3. Statement of the temporalities and reprizes of the Monastery of Cogges- hall, declared and signed " Per me Johannem Talcarne in absentia Thomfe Argall deputatum." (pp. x-xi.) This is clearly the hill of particulars pre- sented to the Commissioners for the diocese of London : the sum total agrees with the short entry occurring at page 444 of the first volume, wherein the valuation of this whole diocese is pubHshed from an antient book in the Office y2 3U Supplement, of First Fruits, compiled from the original record which is now lost. But this document, though a valuable appendix, is no record, being only a voucher used in the valuation. 4. The same remark is applicable to a very well drawn up statement of the revenues of the Monastery of Walden, in the same diocese. It has no sig- nature: but its authenticity appears from the corresponding sum entered against that house in the printed Valor, I. 439, to which it likewise forms a good appendix, though not a record. 5, An account of the lands and revenues of the Abbey of Durford, con- sisting of a short survey of " The demaynes and landes late occupied by the Abbot there," taken 15 Aug. 28 Hen. VIII. (153G,) and a list of " The re- sidue of the possessions late apperteynyng to the said Abbey, after the valua- cion of the Commyssioners for the tenthes grauntcd to the King." (pp. xiii- xiv.) The latter part is clearly no more than an abstract, in English, from the valuation of the diocese of Chichester, recorded in Latin by the Commis- sioners, and printed in the Valor, Vol. I. p. 321. Its insertion in the Ap- pendix is most unjustifiable. 6 and 7. Miscellaneous valuations and particulars of benefices in the dio- ceses of Bangor and Saint Asaph (pp. xiv-xxxvi-xlv) ; the certified valua- tions of both which being preserved in the proper office, with the original commissions annexed, it is manifest that these documents can have no pre- tension to be regarded as records. Their true character will appear by com- paring the printed record of the Valor, Vol. IV. pp. 415-32, 433-56; and to the consideration of them I shall return in due time. Thus it appears that not one of the docimients in the Appendix is a part of the record of the Valor, but that they seem to be some of the " materials" out of which that record was framed, with the exception of one that is evidently posterior to the transaction. Two of them indeed may be justly regarded as valuable subsidiaries, in the loss of the original record: but the rest are only illustrative documents ; and they are rather curious as throwing light on the mode of framing the survey, than of any possible value to impeach or corro- borate what has become, in the due course of law, a record beyond contro- versy. No argument therefore can be drawn from a comparison of the Ap- pendix with any unpublished documents, hi order to prove them part of the Valor ; nor can they be such unless it can be shown that they relate to dis- tricts for which the certificates of the Commissioners are not extant in the First Fruits Office, (as the dioceses of London and Ely,) and that they were those identical certificates (or part of such) made by virtue of the royal commission and on oath, and returned into the Exchequer under the hands and seals of the Commissioners. Mr. Hardy argues thus : — Documents of a certain description were printed in the supplemental volume, and Mr. Cole has found others of the same de- scription ; ergo, they ought also to have been printed. Here he assumes that it was right and proper to print those documents : but, since I have shown the contrary, the major proposition must be amended by the addition of " im- Suppkment. 325 properly," and the consequence is that it would have been equally improper to print Mr. Cole's documents. What he means, however, by saying that the latter "ought to have been printed in preference to what was printed," is unintelligible, unless it be supposed that they are of greater extent or impor- tance than what may be found in the Appendix : but this will be considered in returning to a farther part of Mr. Hardy's Evidence. Mr. Hardy, being thus called upon to state, for the information of Parlia- ment, his deliberate opinion (as a person skilled in records) concerning the Valor Ecclesiasticus, — a record of great importance and constant use, and of which a complete copy had been in his own possession so long that he might be considered fully acquainted with its nature and contents, — deposes, that it " was compiled from certain returns," that it " may therefore be considered " as a compilation from those original returns," and that it " is the Exchequer " record or inrolment of the various orighial returns to the King's Commis- " sioners." So far, however, is this from being a con-ect opinion of the record in question, that it argues profound and heedless ignorance of the subject on which he comes forward as a witness ; notwithstanding that the case had been correctly and clearly stated by Mr. Hunter, whose opinion he opposes, knowing at the same time that Mr. Hunter had written the General Introduc- tion to the Valor, and must be well acquainted with the nature of that record. Surely Mr. Hardy ought to have had experience enough, at the Tower, to know that the tenn " return " is strictly and properly applied to the execution of a writ or commission, the certificate of which execution is required to be certified, and returned within a fixed period, together with the writ or com- mission, to the authority from which it issued. The only returns then that can be conceived of, in regard to the ecclesiastical survey of Henry VIIL, must be the Valor itself; as it will appear by a short statement of the manner in which that survey was made. By the Statute for the payment of first fruits and tenths, 2G Hen. VIIL cap. iii., it was ordained that the Chancellor should direct a commission, under the great seal, into every diocese in England and Wales, for the pur- pose of makirg diligent inquiry of the gross yearly value of all ecclesiastical endowments and revenues, and of the deductions to be allowed thereout as in the act prescribed ; and that the Commissioners, after having been sworn to their ofiice, should proceed, *' to the cunning, wits, and uttermost of their powers," to fulfil the same, and should certify their valuation under their seals into the Exchequer. Accordingly, on the 30th of January, 1535, commis- sions were issued, containing the following clause : — " Et ideo vobis mandamus, firmiter injungentes, quod circa praemissa effec- tual iter intendatis, ac ea facialis et exequamini diligenter. Ita quod veri- tatem de eisdem articulis et do eorum singulis habere poterimus, absque favore, fraude, dolo, corruptione, sen covina, prout vos inde nobis respondere vehtis; et quicquid in pra?missis feccritis, Thesaurario, Cancellario, Came- rariis et Baronibus de Scaccario nostro inde et de omnibus circumstantiis eorundem, prout articuli pricdicti in se exigunt et requirunt, in octavis sanctae Trinitatis proximo futuris, sub sigillis vestris distinctc et aperte, in debita 326 Supplement. forma in scriptis certificetis." — Valor, vol. II. p. 289, III. p. 1, IV. 415, (etc.) To these commissions of inquiry, as usually, instructions were annexed, signed by the King's hand, directing the proceedings of the Commissioners ; especially ordering them to " examine incumbents, their receivers, and audi- tors, by their oaths, and also see and view such registers, books of accompt, easter-books, and all other writings, as by their discretions shall be thought convenient and reasonable for sure declaration of the premises," and to make " a plain book thereof, after the auditors* fashion ; " also that, when they had in several companies made their inquiry, they should " assemble themselves and confer all their several books together, and annex every of them to their commission, and so to certify the same wholly and entirely together into the King's Exchequer, at the day Hmited in their commission." It has been already shown, in the case of " Hecham," that some of them required written information to be brought before them ; upon the truth of which the incum- bents and other persons were examined on oath : from the papers thus collected, the general certificates were compiled, more or less at large, at the discretion of the Commissioners, partly in the shape of books, and partly in the form of rolls ; and these books or rolls formed the returns annexed to the commis- sions, which were certified under their hands and seals into the Exchequer, in the department of which, then newly established, they still remain. These returns, and these only, constitute the Valor Ecclesiasticus of Henry Vlll. ; which is, therefore, neither a compilation from returns, nor an inrolment of the various retm'ns, but a collection of the original commissions and returns, in the various shapes in which they were obtained from the simultaneous exer- tions of independent bodies of Commissioners. The following is the descrip- tion of them, reported to the Select Committee on Public Records, in 1800. " Surveys of archbishoprics, bishoprics, abbeys, monasteries, priories, col- leges, hospitals, archdeaconries, deaneries, provostships, prebends, parsonages, vicarages, chantries, free chapels, or other dignities, benefices, offices, or pro- motions spiritual within this realm, taken by virtue of certain Commissions of King Henry 8, according to the tenor and efi'ect of an Act of Parliament, provided in that behalf, in the 2Gth year of his reign ; of which these that follow are originals, or reputed to be such : — Rolls. St. Asaph V CarMe >I^'«^«Pfi^s. Exeter * Valuation of the bishopric and cathedral church of Norwich. Counties of Chester, Derby, Durham, Dorset, Gloucester, Hereford, York, Leicester, Lichfield and Coventry diocese, Lincoln pensions, the counties of Northampton and Norfolk, Southampton, Stafford, Suffolk, Surrey, Sussex, Warwick, Westmorland, Wilts, archdeaconry of Richmond. * * ♦ * Books. Kent, upon parchment ; LlandafT, upon paper; Lincoln, in an old paper book, with an index of the deaneries; Oxford, upon paper; Somerset, upon Supplement. 327 u il tt parchment; Worcester, two books upon parchment.'' {Reports, 1800, p. 209.) The next question put by the Chairman (3710) is in the following words :— " Mr. Hunter's opinion was, as far as I can now recollect it, that the docu- " ment found by Mr. Cole, being one of those original returns, ought not to " have entered into the printing of the Valor Ecclesiasticus, which was a print " from the compilation from these returns, and not the returns themselves. I understand you [Mr. Hardy] to say that Mr. Hunter is not correct in his view of the printed work, for the printed work did not confine itself to the document properly called the Valor, but reprinted many of the originals ** upon which that Valor was found."* Nothing can be a more gross mis- understanding of Mr. Hunter's clear and dehberate Evidence on this subject, than what existed in the Chairman's recollection. Mr. Hunter neither said that Mr. Cole's document was one of the original returns, nor that the Valor was (whether printed or manuscript) a compilation from returns, nor that it does not consist of the returns themselves. Mr. Hunter has used the word " return" or " returns" no fewer than seven times in his answer to Question 3185, and always in its proper sense. The following is the princi- pal passage containing his opinion on the subject : — " The Valor is a return certified into the Court of Exchequer by certain '• Commissioners appointed by the 26 Henry VII I. c.3, who were to certify " the value of benefices, chantries,t and religious houses, and all descriptions ** of ecclesiastical property in the country. Those Commissioners did certify " accordingly into the Exchequer, from their respective districts : those re- " turns are the Valor Ecclesiasticus of Henry VIII., or (popularly) the King's " Books. The return which they made for this Welsh diocese in qucstion,J " is now at the First Fruits Office; therefore, being at the First Fruits Office, " and there were not ttco certified returns,— heing at the First Fruits Office, — " it cannot be at the Augmentation Office." Nevertheless Mr. Hardy assents to the Chairman's question, and says " Yes: it is my impression that many of the returns printed in the supple- " mental volume were original returns;" and he adds, that no portion what- ever of that volume is known to exist at the First Fruits Office, but that it was " printed from the original returns or contemporaneous copies preserved " in the Chapter House and the Augmentation Office.'* A reader, unac- quainted with the publications of the Record Commission, nnist be led to suppose that the documents here referred to filled a whole volume, and would little suspect that they were no more than the forty-five pages of Appendix before described. They are not the Valor, they are only an Appendix ; and it has been already shown that the two shortest, filling no more than tico pages and a half, alone have any importance. Mr. Hardy goes on to say that Mr. Hunter's objection against Mr. Cole's document would be applicable to nearly all those documents printed by the Commissioners in the Appendix. * The last word seems to be a ir.Isprint ioT founded ov formed. t Misprinted ** charities " in the Evidence. t Referring to Mr. Protheroe's Evidence. 328 Supplement. (num.3711.) Very justly: but he still continues to argue on the wrong supposition that they were rightly published in that volume, as parts of the record, (which they are not and can not be) ; and to the Chairman's remark, (num. 3712) " If those ought to have been printed this ought to have been," namely, Mr. Cole's document, — ^he answers, " Yes ; for it is more ample and " important in its details than what has been printed, and which seems to be " only a contemporary copy or full abstract of the original return lately " brought to light by Mr. Cole." This answer, which ends Mr. Hardy's Evidence on this topic, leaves his argument in this form: — That the Valor is a compilation from certain returns to the King's Commissioners ; or that it is an inrolment of them ; that the five printed volumes do not contain the original returns, but that the sixth volume contains many of them ; that Mr. Cole has found an original return in the Augmentation Office, of which only ** a contempora- neous copy or full abstract" had been printed in that sixth volume ; and that, being more ample and important in its details than what has been printed, it claims a preference to the matter published by the Commissioners. But every step of this argument is wrong. I have already shown what the documents in the Appendix are not, and what they are : if Mr. Cole's document rests its claim on the same kind of evidence as they do, it must fail to be considered as part of the record, and can be of no authority, and of im- portance little or none. First let us see what Mr. Cole himself says of it. His Evidence is in the following words : — "4710. Were any portions of the Valo?' Ecclesiastic us discovered in the ** Augmentation Office? — Yes, some quantity, being, as I believe, the origi- " nal returns of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, was found after the sup- ** plemental or sixth volume had appeared to that work. " 4711. Is it your opinion that they ought to have appeared in the Supple- " ment to that work published by the present Commission ? — No doubt they ought to have been inserted in it, because the Supplement is formed of " precisely similar documents, found, for the most part, in the Augmentation " Office. Mr. Hardy has given evidence on this point, in which I entirely " concur, and I need not therefore repeat the same." Here, not^vithstanding his profession of entire concurrence with Mr. Hardy, none can fail to perceive a verj' great discrepancy between their opinions. Mr. Cole's friend was content to claim them as returns to the Commissioners ; but he declares his belief that they are " original returns of the Commis- sioners" that is, such certificates as were returned under their seals into the Exchequer. But what says Mr. Hunter? This witness, undoubtedly most competent to pronounce a just opinion on the matter disputed, had already stated in his Evidence, that he held it to be a matter so exceedingly important, as to think that the fullest information should be entered on the minutes of the Committee respecting it; and he delivered the following opinion. " But farthermorc, I think I can tell the Committee what this document ** at the Augmentation Office, which is alleged to be a portion of the Valor, it Supplement, 329 " really is. The Commissioners were empowered to call before them all " persons who could give them information, so as to enable them to make " their returns complete. What I found at the Augmentation Office, and " what is alleged to be a portion of the Valor , appears to me like some things " printed in the Appendix, — information tendered to the Commissioners ; and " the reason why I think so is this, that there are the names of the superiors " of religious houses attached to portions of it, and of beneficed clergy of the " diocese to other portions, in their autogi'aph signatures. The importance " of distinguishing between the genuine Valor and this, which is held out to " be a portion of the Valor^ arises out of the extreme importance of that *• document itself; the Valor Ecclesiasticus being, as is well known, the most " valuable record of the realm relating to ecclesiastical property. When, " therefore, it is alleged that there is something in the Augmentation Office, " or any other office, that is a portion of the Valor which is not a portion of " the Valory it is pi^o tanto an impeachment of the dignity of that record ; " and inasmuch as this document at the Augmentation Office, which is " avouched as a portion of the Valor, is in some points at variance with the " genuine Valor at the First Fi-uits Office, there is an uncertainty introduced, " where eveiything ought to be clear and distinct, and open to no suspicion " of incorrectness." (Num. 3185.) That this deliberate opinion of Mr. Hunter is correct, I bear my humble testimony, having carefully examined the volume containing the boasted new portion of the Valor, It is a small folio volume consisting (in my apprehen- sion) of three distinct portions, in the following order: — (1.) A book intitled " Taxacio primorum fructuum omnium Ecclesiarum Dioc. Bangor, reve- rendo in Christo patri Episcopo Bangor, debitorum tociens quociens va- cacio" This consists of four leaves of paper, (containing five written pages, ff. 2^ — 4*,) within two leaves of an antient scholastic MS. for a cover; and is, for the most part, in a good state of preservation. (2.) Fourteen leaves or fragments of leaves, seeming to have constituted a paper book of parcels of a sui^vey, corrected and interlined : but so damaged is it by damp and age, that not one page, and scarcely two consecutive lines in any part, can be read. (3.) Separate papers stating the particulars of bene- fices in the dioceses of Bangor and S. Asaph : some few of them are small folio pages, but most of them are small papers, all in a decayed state, and many of them almost illegible. Few of them are perfect, having suffered the loss of the heading, or of the side containing the moneys, or of the sum total or other important part. How valuable so ever they might be, it would be impossible to publish them with any hope of utiUty. Take, for example, a complete copy of one paper, which lies in six small fragments, pasted on folio 134.* First fragment, he . . . | decanat* de | rectoria de Lla | * . • wys psen I Second. . . d ap R | ap | tho | arl . . Third., for o. Fourth. & I the lact | r the. Fifth, which may .... | * Sixth, the iust | on yere | ne and haye | lactuall thethes^^ — < iiij I oblaci • The vertical strokes denote the separate lines, and the dots show where traces of writing only can be perceived. 330 Supplement, Supplement, 331 This is one of Mr. Cole's ample and important records ! But there is good reason to believe that even the merit (such as it is) of their discovery is not due to him. During the progress of examination, repair and arrangement of the unsorted records in the Augmentation Office, many years ago, certain do- cuments connected with the ecclesiastical survey of Henry VIII. were found, and were bound up in two folio volumes, by Mr. Caley's direction. One of these volumes is a large thin book, containing the deanery of " Hecham : " the other is smaller but thick, and consists of the papers relating to the dioceses of Bangor and S. Asaph, which constitute the sixth and seventh articles of the Appendix already described. Mr. Gay informs me that they were bound about the year 1819, and that, afterward, as the work of arranging the Office went on, he found at different tunes and in different places, the papers which form the volume bound in 1835 ; that he placed them in sheets of car- tridge-paper as they were found, for the purpose of showing them to Mr. Caley. Mr. Protheroe has stated in his Evidence (1294) that " It is worthy of remark, " that the discovery of this portion of the Valor Ecdesiasticus [of which he was speaking] has been made in the Office which for years was in the cus- " tody of Mr. Caley, the late Secretary of the Record Commission, and who " was one of the Co-editors of the Valor Ecdesiasticus.'* Hence it must be understood that the documents in question were unknown to Mr. Caley : but that this was not the case, is certain, not merely from Mr. Gay's testimony to me, but from the fact that the most legible and most valuable of them is really contained in the Appendix edited by Mr, Caley. This is the " Taxatio' which is described above as the first part of the MS. volume, and which occupies live pages and a half (xiv— xix) out of the forty-five pages of that Appendix. This fact was perfectly known to Mr. Cole ; for the comer of the first leaf is thus marked with pencil by his own hand, " p. xiv. printed Appendix.'' Three of the papers which fall under the third description of the contents of the volume, are in like manner marked by him. They are ff. 25, 72, which are referred unto page xxxvii, being notes of the benefice of " Eskyveok" or " Yskyvyok;" and f 119, which is an account of that of" Llan-elyon," bearing this reference, " p. xli. printed Append. V. 337." Copies of them are annexed to this paper, together with extracts of the entries relating to those parishes contained in the Appendix and in the Valor itself; by compa- rison of which it will appear, beyond doubt, that (1.) the unpublished papers are rough materials used by the Commissioners in the first instance, (2.) that the corresponding papers in the Appendix are minutes and draughts of their valuation compiled from the evidence (written and oral) taken on oath, and (3.) that the entries in the Valor are the authentic records of their valuation, certified, on their own oaths and under their hands and seals, to the King in his Exchequer. Indeed any one carefully perusing the second of these classes of documents, must be struck with the fact that they seem to be minutes of evidence taken by the Commissioners, at certain times and places, and that in several instances the names or signatures of the witnesses are given, who were sworn to the truth of the matter set down. For instance, the first entry is headed " The xxviij^ day of Aprell A<» r' r' Henrici Octavi xxvijo." (p. xix.) This is a minute of the Commissioners : and it is subscribed by the deponent thus, " Per me Robertum Evans, Decanum Ecclesie Cathedralis Bangor." The next is an account of the profits of the archdeaconry of Bangor, in the margin of which these notes occur, — Irr' ArcK — int^ — int^ in parcelV (&c.) The third entry (p. xx) against which the same note Irr is placed, has a sum total of 11/. 18s. 4rf., which is struck through, and thus corrected, " xij" per disc? commiss." The Commissioners therefore appear to have used their discre- tion, by adding one shilling and eight-pence to the total valuation, for reasons known to themselves : many such instances occur ; and no better proof can be desired, that the papers in Mr. Caley's Appendix, relating to the Welsh dioceses, are their minutes and draughts. A letter to them, with an affidavit, may be found at p. xxx. In like manner some of the unpublished papers are headed with dates : for instance, at f 26, — " Apud Denbighe v*" die mensis Ma Anno r' r' Henrici octaui xxvij**. " Robertus Jones cl'icus vicarius de Llanrayd"^ in dioces' Bangoriefi depo- sethe by the vertue of his othe that the true and iuste value of the said vicarage yerely extendethe by estymacon as herafter folowethe," etc. Signed " p me Ro'bt' Jones ut sup*." These other dates occur,-4 May, f 73; 5 May, f 27, 62, 71, 72, 111, 119, 122, 123, 128, 129 ; 6 May, f 125 ; 7 May, f 105 ; 11 May, f 101. Notes by different hands are at the foot of some of the papers, which seem to have been written by the Commissioners : thus, on the fragment at f 29, is a memorandum to speak with a certain person on the subject of the paper, " Lo. cu M' Reginaldo Conwey." I trust that I have now satisfactorily refuted the allegations and arguments of Mr. Hardy and Mr. Cole, relative to the Valor, and that I have shown, not only that the documents in question are not part of the record, nor ought to have entered into the publication of the Board, but that Mr. Caley's own Appendix has been added to the work improperly, or at least unfortunately, as. it appears that some small wits have readily mistaken it for part of the Valor itself What Mr. Caley would have said in explanation of his Appendix, if he had lived to write the " General Introduction," it is im- possible to conjecture ; this however appears certain to me, that the impublished papers in question were known to him ; and that they were not discovered by Mr. Cole but by Mr. Gay, who knew what they were when he found them, who laid them aside for Mr. Caley's own use, and who expressly communicated them to Mr. Cole before they were bound. My belief is that Mr. Caley thought them unfit for publication, even if an accurate copy of them could by any ingenuity have been made out. For any farther information concerning the Valor, the octavo edition of Mr. Hunter's General Introduction to that record may be consulted, which contains some notes not in the folio copy; also Mr. Gimthorpe's Evidence before the Select Committee, num. 7236 — 7252. William Henry Black. f 332 Supplement. Extracts referred to in the foregoing paper, I. The Rectory and Vicarage of Eskyveok in the Diocese of S. Asaph (I.) Rough Minutes of the Parcels Jrom the papers hound up into a volume in the Augmentation Office, ff. 72, and 25. Eskifveok Rector\ V*® die mens maij a** Regni Regis Henrici octaui xxvij". Decanatus de Tegyngten Assaven dice. pson Rectoria de ? Res ap Robert pcurator for Doclor Glyn ther apon his oth sayth Yskywok i^m, ) that the iuste true and entyre value of the said benyfice ys as here af 9 folowyth for the psons pte. In primis in teth cornne haye flaxe and hempe xv. ti. Itm in telh ole lame and lactuall iiij. ti. iij. »• iiy* d. Itm in oblacyons and small tethes as gesse piggC kydys wylh schuch od' ) ^^ g^ with od^ emolumente to the same beloyngyg * Itm in glebe lande yerly Rent ij. »• Suto'xx.}i. iiij. d. ex p Desyryng alloaunc. Frust to the bischoppe for his ilnuall pxe yerly dew crastino aiaj^ . .xv. s. Ilm for pxes and pcuracyons to the said bischiopp when he doyth viset vij. s. iiij d. Itm to the bishoppe in triane : that ys to wilte the theied pte ? ^j- 5 yj ^ of ole lame and lactuallis yerly 3 Sii to^ for alloaunce xxxiiij. s. x. d. Eskyveok Vicar, Y^° die mens maij a^ Regni Regis nri Henrici octaui xxvij". Decanatus de Tegynglyn Assaven dioc. Vicaria de > S* Jevan Vicar ther apon his 00th sayth that the vefey true value Yskyvyok i'bm. S of his vicarage ys as here af? folowyth. In p'mis in teth cornne hempe flaxe and haye ad sumil iiij.ii. xiij.s. iiij. d. Itm in oole lame and lactuall . ^ xxiij. s. iiij. d. Itm in ofTerynge or oblacyons and od' small tethes as gesse pigis ^ kynde wyth od^ emolumete any wyse to the same apptenyng >x, s. ad suma * • -^ Itm on howse callede the Vicar[a]ge wyth the glebe lande ther to ) . ~^ ^jjj^ ^^ beloyngyog yerly R'tt • * Suto* vj.li. xiij.s. iiij. d* Supplement, 333 Desyryng alloaunce. Frust for anuall pxes dew to the byscioppe yerly : crastino ala^:. . v. 5. Itm for lactualles to the byscioppe yerly iiij. s. ij. d. It for for* pxes and pcuracyons to the said bischiopp when he ? y V. s« Su to* for alloaunce xilij. s. ij. d. p me vie diis Henr ap Johii. doyth viset (2.) Draught of the Valuation of the Commissioners, printed in the " Appendix,*' Vol. VI. p. xxxvii. DECANAT'' DE TEGYNGL. Rector' de Eskyveok. Doclor Wittms Glyn Rector i^m valet in Decimis gran feni flax & hemp xv" Km in lana agnis et lactualib5 iiij" iij' iiij** Itm in oblacion aucis porcett hedis et alijs decimis minutis .... xv" In terris glebat€ ij** p pocti xxvj" viij* viij<* cu Vicaria de Eskyveok Sin'^ toi€ xx" iiij"*. p lib? Epi xv" Deduct In pcur anual Diio Epo xv« Itm Diio Epo in Triane viz. ?cia ps lane agnoru & ^ ^j.^ .^ lactualiu ' Et valet clare xviij" xij* x**. Vicaria de Eskyveok. Dns Jev^n Vicar il5m valet in decimis granoru canabe lino & feno iiij" xiij« iiij«J Itm in lana agn & lactuat xxiij« iiijd In oblac & alijs decimis minute x« In uno domo voc Vicaria cu ?r glebate eidm spectant vj* viij** plibiuEpi vj" xiij« iiijd Sm* vj" xiij« iiijd. Inde Deduct In pcur Epo • y* In lactualib5 Epo Snuatim iiij' ij** Et valet claret xvj" iiij* ij«*. • Sic. t Sixteen is obviously a mistake for six pounds. 334 Supplement. (3.) Record of the Vahationy as entered in the " Valor^* Vol. IV. p. 439. RECTORIA DE ESKYVEOK. Val' in £. s. d. Decimis graa' feni flax & hemp coibj annis .... xv. — — -v Lan' agn' & lactual' "ij. iij. »"j. f * *' ...' . . /XX. 1111. Oblacion' & alijs mmut decimis — xv. — i Terr' glebat' p annu — ij. — -y Inde in Rep's' vi^ Lactual' — xij. \},\ P'cur' annual' — xv. — ^— xxix. vij. P'cur' visit' juxa rat' — ij- j- ) Et valet clare coib5 annis xviij. x. ix. Inde P' X™* pte dno Regi debit' — xxxvij. j. VICARIA DE ESKYVEOK. Val' in Decim' gran* feni hemp & flax coibj annis .... iiij. xiij. iiij. 'v Lan' agnis et lactualib? — xxiij. iiij. f /vj. xiij. lllj. Oblacionib3 & alijs minut' decimis — x. — 4 Terr' glebat' p annu — vj. viij. -/ Inde in Repris' vi3 lactual' epo — iiij. ij.'J P'cur' annual' — v. — \— \. x. P'cur' visit' jux» rat' — — xx. J Et valet dare coibj annis vj. ij. vj. Inde P' x™» pte dno Regi debit' — xij. iij. Supplement. 335 II. The Rectory of Llan Elion in the Diocese of Saint Asaph. (1.) Rough Minutes of the Parcelsjjrom the papers bound up into a volume in the Augmentation Office^ f. 119. V*<* die mens Maij a^ Regni Regis Henrici octaui xxvij**. Decanatus de Rocs Assaven dice. Rectoria de ) S' Thomas Salusbury pson ther by the v'tu of hys ooth sayth that llan elyan itim. S the true and iust value of his said benyfyc yerly extendyth by estimacyon as here af 9 folowyth. In p'mis in teth cornne hempe flax and haye ad sumil iij. li. xiij. s. iiij. d. Itm in ole lame and lactuall tethes xxiij. s. iiij. d. Itm in ofleryngt oblacyons and od"" the tethes wyth od"" } ■— x- emolumet€ any wyse to the same beloyngyng ad sumii . . S Itm in glebe lande yerly Rent vj.s. viij. d. Sii to' ix. ti. iij. s. iiij. d. Desyiyng alloance for the bischiopp anuall pxes dew yerly > ... ~ vi'i d crastino aiaj 3 It for the pxe of visitacyon when the bischopp doth viset . . iiij. s. Itm all soo desyryng alloaunce for lactuall yerly to be payd ) ... ~ .... . to the bischioppe ^ Su to' of alloaunce . . xxj. S. P me thomii Salusbury Rector de llanelien. (In dorso.) Han elyen. (2.) Draught of the Valuation of the Commissioners, printed in the *' /Appendix,'' Vol. VI. p. xli. RECTORIA DE LLAN ELIAN. Thomas Salesbury Rcor il5m. Valet in granis canabis lino & feno iij'« xiij« iiijJ lana agnis & lactuatt xxiij" iiij- ''viij. iiij. Fcur' visit' juxa rat' &c — — ^vj. ) Et valet clare coib5 annb ''j* — '^*' lode • • •• p» ^ma pte dno Regi debit' — xxij. ij. • This is the reference supposed lo be intended in Mr. Cole's note, " V. 337," quoted at p. 328. This benefice is one of the instances in which the particulars of the gross income are not set down ; the Commissioners having assessed the valuation of the living at 12/., though the particulars amounted to no more than 9/. 3s, 4d. See their draught in No. (2.) XI. Observations on defects alleged to exist in the publication intitled " Testa de Nevill sen Liber Feodorum in Curia Scaccani,** [Referred to at page 185.] One of the complaints, brought against the Publications of the Record Com- mission, respects the Book of Feudal Tenures commonly called " Testa de Nevill;" against which a charge of the grossest inaccuracy has been made; and it has been asserted that the Commissioners committed an error in pub- lishing the volume altogether. Both these charges are, in effect, but one ; and the design of the present observations is to show, that, to a wrong view of the real nature of that publication, the charge of inaccuracy to so great an extent as what is alleged, must be ascribed. In order to this explanation, it is needful to state the nature, plan and origin of the work, and the reasons for its publication. The volume intitled " Testa de Nevill, seu Liber Feodorum in Curia Scac- carii," is a printed copy of an antient compilation in two volumes, preserved in the Office of the King's Remembrancer, in the same custody as the other books of the Exchequer known as the Abridgement of Domesday, the Red Book, the Black Book, etc. ; and it is thus described in the return made from that Office to the Select Committee in 1800. " 5. A book containing nomina villarum, setjanties, and knights' fees in several counties, taken by inquisition temp. Henry III. and Edward I." And " 6. A book containing a continu- ation of similar entries in other counties. These two books contain the compilations known by the name of Testa de Neville. In the inside of the cover of each book, there is a memorandum by an antient hand, of which the following is a copy. Contcntu pro evidencia habeantur hie in Scaccariu, et non pro recordo:'* The character of the writing shows that no higher antiquity can be ascribed to these volumes than the reign of Edward II. ; but they are quoted in records of the 5th year of Edward II., and the 7th, 8th, and 47th years of Edward III., as a book of evidence at the Exchequer; and have always been holden as of great use and authority. * The note is fully given in the Lansdowne Catalogue (from the MS. 257, which is a transcript of the second volume of the Testa,) thus—" Memorandum quod iste liber compositus fuit et compilalus de diversis inquisitionibus ex officio captis tem- poie Regis E. fil. R. II., et sic contenta in eodem libro pro evidentiis habeantur hie in Scaccario et non pro recordo." See also Cooper on the Public liecords, i. 261, in a quotation from Nicolas, whose information was derived from that Catalogue, ii. 93. z \\\ 1 * I M I 1^ I 333 SupplemenK The revenues of the Crown, in the feudal ages, arose, for the most part, out of the incidental profits of the feudal system, such as wardships, marriages, and escheats or forfeitures in default of heirs or in case of attainder. But there were other revenues of a more fixed nature, such as fee-farm rents, ser- janties consisting of tangible profits, and aids which were levied on certain extraordinary occasions, under the name of " scutage." For the ascertam- ing and collecting of the former, the inquisitorial system of the Escheator s Office was in constant exercise ; with the two fii-st branches of the latter, the sheriff stood charged in his yeariy account. But for the uniform and certain collection of the '* scutage," which happened at uncertain intervals of time, the officers of the Exchequer were compelled to use a different course. The great landed estates, that were settled and recorded in the Conqueror's time, were gradually divided, and after two or three generations the survey con- tained in the Domesday Book became useless for the purpose of collecting scutage ; and the subinfeudations could be only ascertained by requiring cer- tificates' thereof from all the great land-owners. The Black Book and the Red Book contain compilations from such returns to writs issued generally m the reign of Henry II., and they served for many years afterward as guides in this part of the public business. A great change, however, was made in the feudal distribution of the country toward the end of the thirteenth century ; and the confusion was so great as to cause the passing of the statute Quia emptores terrarum, whereby all feudal services were thenceforth reserved to the superior lords of the fee generally, without name, it being often mipossible to ascertain of whom tenures were holden, by the terms of charters gi-anted before that time. Clearly therefore, in the following reign, that of Edward II., it was impossible to collect an aid for the King, by the help of the old Books which were then at the Exchequer; and it seems that the remedy of this defect was contemplated, in the compilation to which these remarks relate. Materials for such a work existed in abundance at the Exchequer; where the most minute and perfect infonnation could have been obtained by digesting the Pipe Rolls and the Escheator's Inquisitions ; but there were other records, still more fit for the puri)ose, and less troublesome to compile from. These appear to be chiefly the returns made by the Commissioners appointed to collect certain scutages in ^ the reign of Henry III., (especially that on occasion of the mamage of his sister Isabel to the Emperor Frederick II.,)* various presentments before the jus- tices itinerant, concerning alienations of fees, escheats, and other feudal inci- dents affecting the interests of the Crown, and returns made by sheriffs to special writs of inquiry on sundry occasions. The information thus gathered lerved to connect the old Books with the series of Escheators' Inquisitions, by determining the amount of all the great fees, and affording notices of the smaller ones, at a comparatively recent tune, whereby precise information concerning the rights of the Crown might readily be obtained. That it was Contracted at Westminster, 22 Feb. 1236, Supplement, 3S9 80 used is clear from instances on record, wherein the Treasurer and Barons were directed to search it, and to certify on the point of inquiry mentioned in the precept; but still more by the fact that a transcript of so much as re- lates to Lincolnshire, which was delivered to the collectors of the scutage levied for the expedition into Scotland in the first year of Edward III., is yet preserved in the Chapter House.* But though the compilation might be of the greatest use as a guide, it was in itself of no authority to compel payment ; and on this ground the Abbat of Croyland made a complaint to Parliament in the seventh year of that reign, urging that " a book which men call Testa de Nevill is not of record."t The records, from which it was compiled, could alone afford that indisputable proof which must finally determine dis- puted rights : hence the origin of the note which has been, almost from the time of their compilation, inscribed in the volumes, — that they give presump- tive evidence sufficient for the Exchequer to act upon, but have not the full force of a record. The singular name of " Testa de Nevill," whicli was even at that early time applied to the books themselves, is derived to them from an earlier com- pilation incorporated in the work, in small portions, and constantly quoted by that title, as at page 93,—" Serjantie domini R. in Warr. in 'Testa de Nevi/i" and " Serjantie domini R. in Lcyc. in cadem Tesla." That document ap- pears to be the basis of the volumes, and consists of short notices of serjantics due to the Crown, in certain comities : it still exists in its original form, in the Chapter House, in a roll of five membranes, and its contents are said, in the preface, to agree verbatim with the entries in the printed work. That roll still bears its antient name, which, though it is impossible to determine its precise meaning, appears most probably to be a jocular appellation, equi- valent to ^'Nevill's headpiece," {Testa meaning the skull, and being the origin of the French teste or tHe,) bestowed on the document as supplying information possessed by some experienced officer of the Exchequer, who may have written it as a remembrance to serve his successors in office ; or it may have been compiled after the death of such a person, to serve the place of his skullf which in his lifetime had contained the knowledge of the documents from which it was made up. In the reign of Henry III., to which time the Testa belongs, the name of Nevill was very common, as may be seen in the index to the work. Two persons indeed of that name have been mentioned in the preface, to whom the origin of the document may, with some proba- bility, be referred. One is Ralph de Nevill, who appears, by entries in the work, to have been a collector of the aid for the mamage of the King's sister to the Emperor, in the county of Rutland, (p. 39,) and to have holden lands in Leicestershire and Wiltshire, (pp. 93, 147.) The other is Jollan de Nevill, who was one of the collectors of the same aid, in Lincolnshire, (p. 351,) and was a holder of lands in that county and in Nottinghamshire (pp. * Cooper on the Public Records, i, 264, 265. •f Rolls of Parliament, ii. 70, cited ibid. p. 261. z2 340 Supplement. 316, 8, 13); and he appears, by a fine cited by Dugdale,* to have been a justice of the court of Common Pleas in Michaelmas term 1242; and to him, with great probability, the Testa is ascribed by that author. But whatever may have been the origin of this compilation, its usefulness and importance were never doubted ; nor, whatever may be the exact amount of authority that it claims as legal evidence, has the authenticity of the infor- mation which it supplies been questioned, until the recent attempts to depre- ciate its acciuracy. Indeed its usefulness v/as understood to be such, that the Select Committee of the House of Commons, in 1800, recommended the publication of a table of contents to serve as a guide to the information con- tained in those volumes, by the following passage of its Report. " Of Political Surveys unpublished, there are several extant of great anti- quity. The Hundred Rolls of the reign of Edward I., containing a very full and minute survey, in the nature of Domesday. The Extenta Manerij in the same reign, (both of which are already described by your Committee,) and the Testa de Nevilj which was a survey of knights' fees, escheats and services, in the reigns of Henry III. and Edward I. With respect to these three, your Committee are of opinion, that lists of the two former, and a table of the contents of the latter, should be printed, with a specimen from each original; selecting from each (as nearly as may be) the same hundred, manors, or places, in order to show more clearly the peculiar nature of these several records, and the degree in which they may serve conjointly to illus- trate the state of property and manners of that period of our history." — {lieports, 1800, p. 15.) More complete information, concerning the documents to which this re- commendation relates, having been obtained by the Commissioners on the Public Records, it was, at an early part of their labours, determined to print the first-named and the last of them,t wholly, and not merely to publish the scanty lists and selections which the Committee had contemplated. The order for that purpose was made on the 14th of December 1804, and the volume was published in 1807. In the mean time the following short de- scription of the work was laid before the Board, among Mr. Caley's " Obser- vations on the works now executing, with suggestions thereon," dated in Ja- nuary- 1806. *' This," the Testa de Nevill, " is an account of the scutages and knights' fees in the reigns of Henry III. and Edward I. The chief use to be derived from it, is, to ascertain the principal land-owners throughout the kingdom at those early periods, and the tenures by which they held their estates ; some of which are indeed very curious, and throw great light on the customs then in use."t • Chronica Juridicialia, p. 61. See also his Baronage, i. 288, as quoted in his preface to the Testa de Nevill, t Most of the documents of the second class are among the Inquisitions post Mortem, and are described in the Calendars of those records. t Minutes of the Boardf i. 356. See also Cooper on the Public liecords, i. 266. Supplement. 341 It is clear, therefore, from both these statements, that the publishhig of this work was designed, not so much by reason of any inherent authority as a record, but for the sake of the valuable historical information which it affords. It is likewise evident that the coiurse adopted by the Commissioners was in every respect preferable to the recommendation which had been put into their hands. The work in question, if represented by an analysis, would be little reduced in bulk, and the cost of transcribing must have been little more than that of compilation from the original. Here then is the whole do- cument placed before the pubhc, and carried into the study of the topogra- pher, and the office of the lawyer, without the trouble of resorting to the Ex- chequer for every little piece of information referred to by such an index as was proposed by the Select Committee. That it has been of the greatest ser- vice to the former class of antiquaries, their universal testimony declares ; indeed it furnishes, after Domesday, the most complete view of the feodality of England that is extant. To the lawyer, likewise, it gives a clue to evidence on record in the Exchequer, and serves to connect facts, and identify docu- ments, essential in making out the descent and tenure of landed property. Notwithstanding, therefore, that the Testa de Nevill is but a compilation, time has given it a degree of authority almost equal to a record ; and it is extremely probable that it will always be (as it has been) received as a record in modern times, in the want of the sources from which it was compiled, and which were perfectly accessible when the compilation was first objected against, as not of record. Excepting the roll afore-mentioned, it does not appear that any of those sources were known at the time when the volume was published : but in a Report made by Mr. Vanderzee to the Commis- sioners, dated on the 17th of March 1812, it was stated that, in the course of his laborious investigation of the miscellaneous records of the King's Remem- brancer's Ofl[ice, certain rolls of the Testa de Nevill had been found by him.* This was five years afler the publication of the volume. These rolls appear to be the same which are mentioned by Mr. Cole. He says that it has always seemed to him " to be exceedingly injudicious to print " a manuscript, without referring to the original rolls to ascertain the accuracy " of it," and that it would have been wiser to print from the originals than from a copy. (Evidence, 4768.) But, as Mr. Cole claims the merit of dis- covering these rolls, he cannot justly blame the Commissioners or the Edi- tors, that they did not use documents which were utterly unknown in their time. If the compilation were less antient, the existence of originals might have been suspected : but, when it is considered that the principal materials of the compilation were of a period so eariy as the reign of Henry III., it cannot be wondered that the originals were not believed to exist. Beside, after all, the MS. is whole ; but those documents are many ; and Mr. Cole does not pretend that he has found all of them. The value of the compila- * Appendix U to the General Report of 1812. Sec Reports, 1819, i. 196. 342 Supplement. Supplement, 343 tion is as great as ever ; and the rolls in question only serve to afford certain verifications or corrections of its substance, or additions thereto. There is a great failure in Mr. Cole's strictures on the Testa, in another respect. Having laboured to show that the inaccuracies which he alleges against it consist, not of" eiTors between the printed book and the transcript from which it was printed," (4765,) but of variations between the original authorities and the MS. compilation, and having given an instance of the omission of the name of a township holden by a certain tenant, he concludes that such variations exist between the Exchequer MS. and the Rolls, from a comparison of the printed book with the Rolls. He has not attempted to show whether the name of that township were omitted by the Editors, but charges it on the MS. without examination. Indeed he tacitly shows the futility of his own remarks, by admitting that the printed book is a faithful copy of the Exchequer MS., exceptuig the misreading of certain names. When he states that 122 variations from the original roll were found by col- lating 22 lines of the printed book, he does not say whether they affect the sense, or whether they were variations made apparently by the design of the compiler, (which they most probably were,) for the purpose of condensing the matter of tlie original record. Such variations detract not from the value of the Testa: they are indispensable to it; for otherwise the officers of the Ex- chequer might as well have used the original rolls, and spared themselves the trouble of abridging them into the books now in dispute. It was by the same principle of arrangement, condensation and unifonnity, as well as of more convenient reference, that the compilation of Domesday Book itself was effected, from the Rolls of Winchester, — the original returns of the Conqueror's Commissioners of survey ; and, if these returns were now extant, Mr. Cole might probably find more than 1 22 variations in every 22 lines of that book ; which, though only a compilation, is esteemed the princi- pal of all our public records. But such variations, though they might be very curious, would not aflcct the substance of the survey : they would be found to consist of orthographical differences, and of the omission of such minor details, as were studiously avoided in the reduction of the collected materials into one consistent form. The case is perfectly analogous to statistic returns made to Parliament ; the reduction alone of which is used for public pur- poses ; and none would be so absurd as to prefer the printing of original returns verbatim, to a judicious compilation of them by an experienced officer, although occasional mistakes occur in such compilations. The originals, in- deed, may be well preserved for reference and verification, but certainly ought not to be given in their native form to the pubHc. Let it not be forgotten that the Commissioners were instnicted only to print a calendar to the contents of the Testa. In the stead of it they printed the ichole book ; but they could not have justified themselves in neglecting the work altogether, by hoping (supposing that such hope had existed) to find the rolls from which it was compiled. They followed the excellent example which had been set in the publication of Domesday. What could have been the use of printing a calendar to Domesday, compared with the publication of the whole text of the book? And would it not have been madness to delay that publication in hope of finding the original retums of the Conqueror's Com- missioners ? Nor was such a hope more groundless than the hope of finding all the materials of the Testa, in the year 1804, when the order for the print- ing of the book was made. Mr. Cole has indeed adduced an instance of inaccuracy on the part of the Editor ; and it must be confessed that he might have found more, if he had sought, or were able to detect them. But what work is entirely free from errors? — especially books containing matters of record, and one printed so early in the present centuiy, when diplomatic printing was far from the per- fection to which it has been brought within the last ten years. It is curious, however, to compare that instance with one that may be easily brought to match it, from another publication. Mr. Cole says, in answer to the Chair- man, " Here is an error between the printed copy and the transcript, the " word Nicholai has been misread for Michaelis.*' (Evidence, 4768.) Now let him turn to page 551 of the volume of Agenda; and, in the Inventory of the goods and relics of Edward I., taken at Burgh on the Sands, in 1307, printed therefrom his own tranacript, and tinder his aivn correction of the press, he will find a passage to the following effect:—" Also a certain small wooden box, containing two Agnos Dei ; and one cross of red leather, sent to the lord the King, by William de Montfort, from the girdle of the lord Pope Michael the Fourth." (" de zona dni Michis pp« iiij".") Mr. Cole alone can explain when and where such a Pope lived ; but he must be content to admit that the record has " Nichi" (not " Micnis"), and that, by misreading and mis- printing Michaclis for Nicholai, (the very converse of the eiTor that he finds in the Testa,) he has made a Pope Michael for Pope Nicholas the Fourth, the well known contemporary of Edward L, from 1288 to 1292. W. H. B. ( 3U ) Supplement. 345 XII. Let I er from Mr, Black, on the ** Inquisitiones post Mortem,"' etc, at the Tower, [Referred to at page 188.] My Dear Sir, The observations wliicli I made on the printed Calendar to the " Inijui- silionespost Mortem" at the Tower, in a recent conversation on the subject, I will endeavour briefly to set down for your use. Pre-eminently valuable as those records are for genealogical purposes, they are not of less use as evidence affecting landed property, either connected or unconnected with heredit«iry descent. The principal object, therefore, which the compilers of the Calendar had in view, was, to exhibit all the names of places mentioned in each inquest, together with a notice of the person or body corporate whose lands and tenements were the subject of it ; these the more important contents of the records being stated, it remained for the in- quirer to learn, by an inspection of any one, whether a notice of the parti- cular estate for which he might be searching, or any genealogical information respecting the owner of the lands, were to be found therein. The Calendar being framed for use in the office only, it is clear that, to have put down all the substance of the document, merely that a reader of its pages might at one view find all the information that he required, would have been a needless, if not a useless, labour. You will remember, no doubt, that I supported my opinion of the original design of the Calendar to this series of records, (namely, that it chiefly had respect to landed proper t if, ) by adverting to the fact that there are j rj ^ ,v.««fVio all fpps nr received by virtue g^j^ Accountant General, once m every months, au lees or sums of money to be received by them respectively by virtue of this Act, (the amount so received and paid by them to be verified by affi- davit to be sworn before one of the Mastei-s of the said Court of Chan- Commission'»rs on Public Records authorized from time to time to direct Fees to be increased or re- duced, or wholly omitted to be received. Supplement, 357 eery,) and that the several sums when so paid in shall be from time to time placed to the credit of an account to be entitled [C. D.]. And be it farther enacted, that the several annual sums or yearly Salaries now pay- payments provided for and directed to be paid to the said Keepers of of the Records of the Records of the Tower and Chapter House for the time being, and chapter House to their clerks, by any Act or Acts of Parliament now in force, shall day of cease as from the day of And be it farther enacted, that there shall be paid by the Accountant officers named in General of the said Court of Chancery, out of the said fund to be to this Act to re- entitled [C. D.], to the several officers named in the first Schedule salaries therein hereunto annexed, the several salaries or yearly sums set opposite to quitSy pa^- their respective names or titles in such Schedule, and that such sala- ries or yearly sums shall be payable and paid by equal quarterly pay- ments, on the day of , the day of , the day of , and the day of ; the first of such quarterly payments to be made on the day of And be it farther enacted, that in the event of the death, resigna- in case of death, tioii, or removal of any of the said officers named in the said first removal of any Schedule in the interval between any of the quarterly days of payment first Schedule, a 1.11. 1 •! , J 11. 1 Qi •• proportionate part on which his salary is hereby made payable, the oincer so resigning of the salary of 1. 1^1 ^ !••.. /•iin? "uch officer to be or being removed, or the executors or administrators ot the otticer so paid to the day of dying, shall be entitled to receive and shall be paid such proportionate tion or removal, part of his said salary as shall have accrued from the next preceding quarterly day of payment to the day of such death, resignation, or removal ; and the person next in succession to any such officer shall be entitled to receive and be paid such portion of the said salary as shall have accrued and may accrue from the day of such death, resignation, or removal as aforesaid, to the next succeeding quarterly day of payment. And be it farther enacted, that if at the end of any year there shall In case there shall be a surplus standing to the credit of the said account to be entitled end of any year in [C. D.], after payment of the several salaries or sums of money hereby tied " charged thereon, it shall be lawful for the Lord Chancellor, by any lx)rd Chancellor Order or Orders of the said Court of Chancery, to direct that any to be invested surplus which may remain on the said account to be entitled [C. D.], curities, in the n • .^ !!• /• ii_ij name of Account- after paying the several salanes or sums ot money hereby charged ant (Jeneral, to an thereon, or such part thereof as to the said Lord Chancellor shall seem " »» fit, shall be invested in the purchase of Parliamentary or Government arisinj? therefrom* Securities, in the name of the said Accountant General of the Court time invested in ° of Chancery, to be placed to an account to be entitled [E. F.] ; and it shall be lawful for the Lord Chancellor in like manner to direct the investment of the dividends or interest to accrue from time to time on such last-mentioned securities, or so much of such dividends and interest as he shall think fit, in the purchase of Parliamentary or Go- vernment Securities, in the name of the said Accountant General, to t S58 In case of a defi- ciency in the ac- count entitled •< »» to pay salaries, Lord Chancellor to direct such de- ficiency to be made good oat of the said account entitled " "and in case of the in- sufficiency of such account, then the defit iency to be made good out of the Suitors' fund. The Lord Chan- cellor may direct payment out of the Suitors' fund, to the Keepers of Records and their clerks, of sums expended by them for stationery, coals, candles, insurance against fire, taxes, and other necessary expenses attend- inR the Record Office. Supplement. be by him placed to the credit of the said last-mentioned account : and in the event of there being a deficiency in the said account to be entitled [C. D.], at any of the times hereby appointed for payment of the salaries hereinbefore mentioned, to raise and pay the several sunas then due, it shall be lawful for the Lord Chancellor to direct the said Accountant General from time to time to make good such deficiency as often as the same shall arise, by carrying over and placing to the said account to be entitled [C. D.] a sum sufficient for that purpose out of the interest and dividends to arise from the Parliamentaiy or Government Securities standing to the said account to be entitled [E. F.], or by a sale of so much of the said securities as may be necessary for that purpose; and in case such last-mentioned securities, and the interest and dividends thereof, shall be at any time insufficient to meet any such deficiency, it shall be lawful for the Lord Chancellor tD direct the said Accountant General from time to time to make good such last-mentioned deficiency, as often as the same shall arise, by carrying over and placing to the said account to be entitled [C. D.] a sum sufficient for that purpose out of the interest and dividends that have arisen or may hereafter arise from the Government or Parlia- mentary Securities now or hereafter to be placed to the credit of the said account, entitled, " Account of Securities purchased with surplus Interest arising from Securities carried to an Account of Monies placed out for the benefit and better security of the Suitors of the High Court of Chancery." And be it farther enacted, that it shall be lawfiil for the Lord Chancellor, by virtue of any Order or Orders of the said Court of Chancery to be made for that purpose, to order and direct an annual account to be taken, and to order payment out of the fund hereinafter mentioned, of all such sums (not exceeding the sum of /.) as shall appear to the Lord Chancellor to be reasonable and proper to be paid to the different Keepers of the Records to be deposited in the said " General Record Office," and their clerks respectively, in order to reimburse them for any expenses reasonably and necessarily expended by them from and after the day on which this Act shall come into operation, untU the 5th day of April then next foUowing; and after that time between the 6th day of April in every year and the 5th day of April in the following year, both inclusive, for the care and clean- ing of the rooms or buildings in which the Records intended to be placed in the said General Record Office shall for the time being be deposited, in paying for books or stationery provided or supplied for carrying on the business of the said keepers and their clerks with re- spect to the said Records, or in providing coals and candles and other necessary articles for the said rooms or buildings, or in payment of insurance against fire, taxes, rates, or other assessments charged upon or payable for or in respect of the said rt>oms or buildings, or any of Supplement. S59 them, or to which the said keepers or their clerks, or any of them, may be liable in respect thereof, and that the expenses aforesaid of or relating to the said rooms or buildings shall be paid out of the interest and dividends of the Government or Parliamentary Securities can-ied to the said account, entitled, " Account of Securities purchased with surplus Interest arising from Securities carried to an Account of Mo- nies placed out for the benefit and better security of the Suitors of the High Court of Chancery." And be it farther enacted, that if at any time hereafter the whole or in case the whole any part of the monies placed out to the said account, entitled, monies placed out " Account of Securities purchased with surplus Interest arising from the Suitors' fund Securities carried to an Account of Monies placed out for the benefit to answer the de- and better security of the Suitors of the High Court of Chancery," suitors, the lx)rd shall be wanted to answer any of the demands of the Suitors of the said direct monies to Court of Chancery, then and in such case the said Court may and the securities to shall direct the whole or any part of such monies to be called in, and such demands. the Securities in which the same shall be placed to be sold and dis- posed of, in order that the Suitors of the said Court may at all times be paid their respective demands out of the common and general cash belonging to such Suitors. And be it farther enacted, that it shall be lawful for the Lord The Lord Chan- ccllor II13V direct Chancellor bv any Order or Orders of the said Court of Chancery to change of Securi- , ' - , . , . . r ties to be pur- authorize the change of the Security or Securities, or of any part chased by virtue thereof, to be purchased pursuant to this Act. And be it farther enacted, that it shall be lawfiil for the said Com- Commissioners on .. iT^ii'T^ 1 11 11 '1^ Public Records to missioners on the Public Records, and they are herebv required, irom settle the periods . . . ' , . 1 anJ hours of at- tune to time, as they shall see occasion, to examine into, ascertain and tendance of the settle the periods and hours of attendance of the keepers and clerks of Clerks of the dif- . ferent Public Re- the different Pubhc Record Offices in the Metropolis, at and in such cord offices in the ,,-.„, .,, Ill Metropolis, and offices respectively, and also the duties of the said keepers and clerks, the distribution of ii- f t • :i 02 1 ^^^ business of the and also the distribution of the business of the said omces, and to said offices, &c. make valid and effectual orders for the admission of any person or persons in the employment of the said Commissioners on the Public Records into such offices respectively, for the purpose of transcribing any of the said Records, and for sorting, indexing, calendaring, re- pairing, binding, and generally for the safe custody of the said Records, and convenience of persons making searches at such offices respectively, and also for transferring any of the said Records from one repository to another. And whereas the executors of the will of the late John Kipling, esquire, or some person or persons claiming under him, are or is pos- sessed of certain private Indexes to the Records in the Rolls Chapel, which, if purchased, would be of great semce to the Suitors of the said Court of Chancery and the public, and which the said executors or other parties are wiUing to dispose of for the sum of 1500/,: Be it N 360 The I-ord Chan- cellor may direct the application of aoy sum not ex- ceeding 151K)/. out of the Suitors' Fund for the par- chase of certain private Indexes to the Records in the Rolls Chapel. Tlie Commis- sioners of the Treasury to ap- point a person to be Keeper of the Records of the Augmentation Office. Powers given by this Art to the Lord Chancellor, may be exercised by I^rd Chancel- lor, Lord Keeper and Lords Com- missioners for the custody of the Great Seal, for the time being. Powers given by this Act to the Commissioners on Public Records shall, when there shall be no such Commissioners, be exercised by tlie Commissioners of the Treasury. Supplement, therefore enacted, that it shall- and may he lawful for the Lord Chan- cellor, by any Order or Orders of the said Court of Chancery to he made for that purpose, to direct that any sum not exceeding the sum of 1500/., shall he paid unto the persons or person entitled thereto, for the purchase of the said Indexes, out of the interest and dividends which have arisen, or shall hereafter arise, from the Government or Parliamentary Securities, now or hereafter to be placed to the said account, entitled, " Account of Securities purchased with surplus In- terest arising from Securities carried to an Account of Monies placed out for tlie benefit and better security of the Suitors of the High Court of Chancery," and that the possession of the said Indexes sliall go along with the said Records. And whereas doubts have arisen as to who is entitled to appoint a Keeper of the Records contained in the Augmentation Office, such appointment previously to the passing of an Act of the third and fourth year of his present Majesty, intituled, " An Act for facilitating the appointment of Sheriffs, and the more effectual audit and passing of their Accounts, and for the more speedy return and recovery of Fines, Issues, forfeited Recognizances, Penalties, and Deodands, and to abo- lish certain Offices in the Court of Exchequer," which abolished the office of Clerk of the Pipe, having been in the gift of the Clerk of the Pipe: Be it therefore enacted, that it shall be lawful for the Lord High Treasurer, or the Commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury for the time being, or any three or more of them, from time to time to appoint a proper person to be the Keeper of the said Records; and that such Keeper shall hold his office during the pleasure of the Lord High Treasurer, or the Commissioners for the time being of his Ma- jesty's Treasury, and may be removed from his office by the Lord High Treasurer, or the Connnissioners of his Majesty's Treasury for the time being, or any three of them, at pleasure. And be it farther enacted, that the powers and authorities given in this Act to the Lord Chancellor, shall and may be exercised in like manner, and are hereby given to the Lord Chancellor, Lord Keeper, and Lords Commissioners for the custody of the (ireat Seal, respec- tively, for the time being. And be it farther enacted, that the powers and authorities given in this Act to the said Commissioners on the Public Records, either alone, or with the consent of the Lord High Treasurer, or the Com- missioners of his Majesty's Treasury for the time being, or any three or more of them, shall and may, when there shall be no Commissioners on the Public Records, be exercised in like manner and are hereby given to the Lord High Treasurer, or the Commissioner of his Ma- jesty's Treasury for the time being, or any three or more of them. And farther be it enacted, that the powers hereby given to the said Commissioners on Public Records, may be exercised by any three or Supplement, 361 more of them, so as one of such Commissioners at least shall be one of the quorum Commissioners named in the said Commission. And whereas by an Act passed in the third and fourth year of the •'* ^ * ^' ^' ^' "• reign of his present Majesty, intituled, " An Act for confirming and caiTying into effect Agreements between the Bishop of Ely and the Society of Judges and Serjeants at Law, for vesting in the said Society the Fee-simple of Serjeants' Inn, Chancery Lane, and between the parish of St. Dunstan in the West and the said Societ}-, and for other purposes:" It was (amongst other things) enacted, that from and after the passing of the Act now in recital, the said Inn, called Serjeants* Inn, aforesaid, with all and singular the messuages or tenements, chambers, and other erections and buildings whatsoever, and the sites thereof, land, grounds, ways, roads, rights, members, and appur- tenances thereto respectively belonging or appertaining, or reputed or known as parcel or member thereof, or of any part thereof, and the fee-simple and inheritance thereof, should be and the same were thereby vested in the said Society of Judges and Serjeants at Law (who were thereby for that purpose made a body corporate,) and their successors, for their absolute use and benefit; And whereas the present Chambers of the Judges in the said Inn are insufficient for their accommodation, and it is proposed to erect new Chambers for the Judges on the piece of ground (being part of the estate called the Rolls Estate, in Chancery Lane aforesaid,) de- scribed in the second Schedule to this Act annexed ; And whereas it is expedient that such Society as aforesaid should have such power of borrowu)g the sum of 10,000/. for the pui-poses after mentioned, and that such provision for the repayment thereof should be made as is hereinafter contained: Be it enacted, that the The Society of said Society of Judges and Serjeants at Law shall within jeams at i-aw to after the passing of this Act, cause and procure to be erected and described in the r,. 1 ,1 • 1 • /. 1 1 M 1 • >i 'J 1 second schedule to fitted up upon the said piece of ground described in the said second this Act a building Schedule hereunto annexed, a proper building or buildings to be ap- .judges' chambers, plied to the like pui'poses as the said Chambers of the Judges in the sent Judges' Cham- said Inn are now apphed, and that the building or buildings so to be inn. erected shall be called " The Judges' Chambers," and that the said piece of ground described in the said second Schedule, immediately after the passing of this Act, and the said Judges Chambers, when erected, shall be and the same are hereby vested in the said Society of Judges and Seijeants at Law, and their successors, in the same man- ner to all intents and purposes as the said Inn, called Serjeants' Inn, aforesaid, was vested in the said Society by the said recited Act of the third and fourth year of the reign of his present Majesty. And be it farther enacted, that for defraying the expenses of erect- The Society of .^ o L Judges and Ser- ins: and fitting: up the said Judges' Chambers as aforesaid, the said jeams authorized ^ o I & 'to borrow of the Society may fi*om time to time borrow and take up at interest any Exchequer Bill i i 9 t 362 CommissioQers any sam not ex- ceeding 10.000/., for defraying the expenses of build' ing and fitting op The Judges' Chambers. Interest at 4/. per cent, to be paid on money to be advancea by the Exchequer Bill Commissioners. An additional fee of three pence on every writ issued out of the Courts of King's Bench, Common Pleas, and Exchequer, to be paid ou the signing thereof, in order to raise a fund for the re- payment of the sam of 10,000/. Such additional fees to be applied under the direction and authority of the Society of Judges and Ser- jeants at Law in discharge of the said sum of 10,000/. and interest. On repayment of said 10.000/. and interest, such ad- ditional fees on writs to cease. Supplement, sum or sums of money not exceeding in the whole the sum of 10,000/. from the Commissioners for carrying into execution an Act passed in the fifty-seventh year of the reign of King George the Third, intituled, " An Act to authorize the issue of Exchequer Bills and the advance of Money out of the Consolidated Fund, to a limited amount, for the carrying on of Public Works and Fisheries in the United Kingdom and employment of the Poor in Great Britain," and several subsequent Acts for extending and amending the powers for the issuing of Exche- quer Bills for Public Works, and that it shall and may be lawflil for the said Commissioners to advance and lend the same. And be it farther enacted, that interest shall be paid on the amount of the money so to be advanced by the said Commissioners for issuing Exchequer Bills to the said Society, or on so much thereof as shall for the time being remain due and unpaid, after tlie rate of 4/. per cent, per annum, any thing in the said Acts for the issuing of Exchequer Bills, or any of them, to the contrary notwithstanding. And be it farther enacted, that for the purpose of providing a fund for the repayment of the said sum of 10,000/., together with interest for the same, after the rate of 4/. per cent, per annum, it shall and may be lawful for the proper officer or officers, and he and they are hereby required to demand and receive in addition to the fees now payable on signing of Writs to be issued out of the Court of King's Bench, Common Pleas, and Exchequer, after the day of the farther sum of three pence for every writ so issued. And be it farther enacted, that all such additional sums of money so to be received as aforesaid on the signing of such Writs as afore- said, shall be from time to time paid and applied under the directions and authority of the said Society of Judges and Serjeants at Law in and toward the satisfaction and discharge of the said sum of 10,000/. so to be borrowed as aforesaid, together with the interest thereon after the rate aforesaid, from the time of the same having been advanced. And be it farther enacted, that so soon as a sum sufficient to repay the said sum of 10,000/. and interest shall have been received by the means aforesaid, the Lord High Treasurer, or the Commissioners of the Treasury for the time being respectively, or any three or more of them, are hereby authorized, by writing under his or their hand or hands, to direct the said officer or officers signing the said Writs as aforesaid to desist from demanding and receiving the said additional fee of three pence; and the said officer or officers shall immediately thereupon cease to demand and receive the said fee accordingly. And be it farther enacted, that this Act, or any part thereof, may be altered, varied, or repealed by any Act or Acts to be passed in this present Session of Parliament. The First Schedule hereinbefore referred to. The Second Schedule hereinbefore referred to. ( 363 ) XVI. Circulars of M. Guizot, Minister of Public Instruction, relative to Researches for MSS. and Historical Documents in France. [Referred to at pages 238, 239.] Le Ministre Secretaire d'Etat au Dtpartement de I'lnstmction Pubhque, A M. , correspondant historique du ministere de I'instruction pubUque. Monsieur, J'ai forme Ic projet de faire rechercher et publler tons les monu- ments inedits relatifs a I'histoire de France qui peuvent exister dans les bibliotheques et archives de Paris et des departements, dans les diverses collections publiques ou particuli^res. Vers la fin de I'annde demiere, j'ai eu riionneur de soumettre ce projet a I'approbation du Roi et des Chambres, et un credit de 120,000 francs m'a ete ouvert k cet effet dans le budget de 1835. Je me propose de commencer dhs h present cet important travail, et, afiii de n*cprouver aucun retard, j'ai cru devoir arr^ter d'avance les dispositions qui m'ont paru les plus propres a assurer son accomplissement. Un comitd central a ete institue prcis le ministbre de I'instruction pubhque, et charge sp^cialement de diriger et de surveiller, sous ma prdsidence, tons les d(3 tails d'une si vaste entreprise. J'ai adress6 plusieurs circulaires k MM. les prefets dans le but d'obtenir des renseignements positifs et circon- stancies sur la situation des depots de tout genre qui sont places dans le ressort de leur administration; j'ai soUicite la cooperation de toutes les academies et societes savaiites organisees dans les departements; j'ai choisi enfin, parmi les personnes les plus capables de me seconder dans ces travaux, sur tons les points du royaume, un certain nombre de correspondants, avec lesquels je desire entretenir des relations frequentes et regulibres. Je vous ai design^, monsieur, comme Tun de ces correspondants; j'espbre que vous ne vous refuserez pas a en accepter le titre et les devoirs; j'ai comptd sur votre zele pour notre histoire nationale, et avant de vous trans- mettre des instructions particulicres, relatives aux recherches sp^ciales qui devront ^tre faites dans votre departement, je m'empresse de vous faire passer d'abord un programme d'instnictions g^n^rales qui peuvent s'appli- quer k toutes les localites et servir de regie a toute espbce de recherches. D'apres mes ordres, les archives et depots publics vous seront ouverts, et vous trouverez, de la part des agents de I'autoritd, toutes les facilitds desi- rables pour vous livrer avec fruit au travail que je vous propose. Une foule de documents prdcieux, de pieces authentiqueS) origuiales ou 364^ Supplement, Supplement. 565 I'' I I m en copie, dtaient deposees autrefois dans les diverses archives des villes, des cvtches, des parlements, des abbayes et congregations religieuses. Dans la plupart de ces ctablissements, elles avaicnt etc classees avec ordre, ct un iu- ventaire exact en avait etc dresse par les soins de leurs anciens possesseurs. La revolution detruisit les ctablissements eux-memes, bouleversa leurs archives, aneantit ou dispersa la plus giande partie des documents qu'elles conte- naient: les uns furent transportes coufusement dans les chefs-lieux de district; les autres passerent de main en main, exposes a toutes les chances d'altera- tion que leur faisaient subir I'ignorance ou Tesprit de speculation. II s'agit aujourd'hui de rechercher et de reunir tons les manuscrits de ce genre qui auraient cchappc a la destniction et qui seraient de nature a oflrir quelque interet pour la science historique. II en est qui presentent une certaine etendue, et qui peuvent fournir a eux seuls la matiere d'un ou plu- sieurs volumes ; quelques autres consistent simplement en pibces detachees, chartes, diplomes, ordonnances, lettres ou actes divers, et qui peuvent etre rassembles en corps d ouvrage. Aucun de ces documents ne doit ctre neglige. Je n'ignore pas toutes les difficultes qui s'opposeront, dans beaucoup d'endroits, a I'ex^^cution d'un tel travail ; je sais qu'il est fort peu de WUes dont les archives ne soient abandonn. parce que la scolastique, qui est la grande philoso- phic du moyen age, n'etait pas veritablement fondee ; 3«. parce que les auteurs de ces oeuvres anterieures au xii« siecle apparUennent rarement a la France. Ce n'est pas a dire pourtant qu'aucun raanuscrit de ce genre, si Ton venait a en rencontrer, dut etre neglige. II ne serait pas impossible de retrouver de nouvelles lettres d'Alcuin. Mais on s'attachera principalement au xii« sibcle : P. parce que c*est Vhre veritable de la scolastique; 2o. parce que e'en est surtoutle commence- ment en France ; >. parce qu'il y a tr^s-peu d'ecrits philosopliiques de ce temps qui aient ete publics. On recherchera done s'il n'cxiste pas des manuscrits contenant quelque traite d'Abailard. Deja Ton vient de retrouver son Sic et Non et plusieurs traites de dialectique. II est certain (et il le dit lui-meme) qu'il avait fait des lecons sur toutes les parties de la philosophic : ce seraient ces lefons qu'il y aurait un grand interet a retrouver, ne fussent-elles redigees que par quelqu'un de ses ellves. II en est de meme de Guillaume de Champeaux, ce maitre si celbbre en son temps, et dont il n'a ete imprime quW trk-petit ecrit, de Origine anima. II doit se retrouver aussi quelque chose de Gilbert de la Porree, un des elbves les plus distiugues d'Abailard. Guillaume de Conches etait aussi a cette epoque un maitre celebre dont il n'a ^t^ public que peu d'ouvrages. Supplement, 37\ Enfin, en lisant la description fiddle que Jean de Salisbury nous donne de I'etat de I'enseignement a Paris au milieu du xii^ siecle, de la multitude des maitres et de la diversite des opinions, il est impossible de ne pas esperer qu'avec des recherches patientes et bien dirigees, on arriverait a retrouver beaucoup de choses precieuses et nouvelles. Dans les siecles suivants, les ordres religieux qui se sont successivement etablis ont cultive la renommee de chacun de leurs membres ; de la les editions, au moins passables, des maitres ctlebres des xiii^, xiv* et x\'* siecles. On a done moins a esperer de retrouver beaucoup d'ouvrages inedits des maitres de ces epoques ; cependant il y a lieu de rechercher si Ton ne d^comTirait pas quelques fragments de professeurs celfebres, tels par exem- ple qu'Occam, qui a enseigne a Paris, et qui, ayant ete mal avec I'autorite ecclesiastique, n'a pas eu le bonheur de la plupart des autres maitres, dont leurs ordres ont recueilli avec soin les ouvrages. Nous signalons Occam, bien qu'il n'appartienne pas a la France, mais comme ayant professc a Paris. II faut dire la meme chose de Roger Bacon, qui a etudie et professc longtemps a Paris. On sait qu'il y a deux grands ouvrages de Roger Bacon qui, reunis a VOpits jmijus, composaient son oeuvre generate. UOpus rnajus a etepublie; les deux autres ecrits, V Opus minus et VOpus tertium ne I'ont pas ete. II serait possible qu'on retrouvat dans une bibliothbque de France quelque copie qui se comparerait utilement avec les manuscrits conserves en Angleterre. On demandera particulibrement au xiv^ et au xv* siecle tout ce qui se rapporte a la grande querelle des Nominalistes et des Ilealistes, par laquelle a commence et par laquelle a fini la scolastique. Pour bien s'assurer de ce qui est reellement inedit, on devra consulter VHistoire litteraire de France, ou I'article conceniant chaque auteur se termine par une enumeration des ou- vrages inedits et meme des ouvrages reputes perdus. On tirera de la des indications et des directions precieuses. Pour les siecles ou I'histoire litte- raire des Benedictins manque, il faudra consulter les divers catalogues et les indications donnees par les historiens de la philosophie, par Brucker princi- palement. Quand on croira avoir decouvert quelque chose d'inedit, on tachera de verifier si le morceau ne se trouve pas imprime deja dans quelqu'une de ces vastes collections ou tant de pieces diverses sont rassemblees, dans le Spici- legiuni de d'Achery, dans le Thesaurus ayiecdotorum de Bernard Pez, dans les collections de Durand, de Martenne, et les Analecta de Mabillon. Au cas ou Ton n'aurait pas sous la main les moyens de verification, du- moment qu'on croira avoir trouve quelque chose d'inedit qui ait de I'importance, il suflSra de m'en ecrire, et je transmettrai, avec I'aide du comite, les eclair- cissements necessaires. Meme avant Descartes, il a pu y avoir des essais de philosophie en langue fran^aise, dans le genre des traductions et commentaires que Louis le Roy a donnes de plusieurs ouvrages de Platon et d'Aristote. On se garderait de les negliger, non phis que les ecrits appartenant a cette pliilosophie morale B d2 372 Supplement, Supplement, S73 moins systematique et plus libre qui slionore des noma de Montaigne et de Charron. Le xvii' si^cle lui-meme nous offre, dans la Biblioth^qiie du roi, beau- coup de morceaux in^dits du P. Lami, de rOratoire, elfeve de Malebranche. Des correspondances de philosophes c^l^bres, discutant entre eux des points int^ressants, peuvent se retrouver encore et ajouter a cet heritage de la philosopbie en France. Litterature, En ce qui concerne la litterature, monsieur, j'appellerai d'abord particu- liferement votre attention sur ce qui pourrait eclairer les origines de notre langue, et la culture qui s'est developpee dans les divers genres de compo- sition, a partir du xi* siecle jusqu'au xvi*, durant cette pcriode qui com- prend la naissance, le premier emploi et le premier eclat de notre langue vulgaire, jusqu a Tepoque tout h fait moderne. II importe, pour combler une grande lacune dans notre bistoire litteraire, de connaitre et de recueillir de plus en plus completement les monuments de cette periode, que les Benc- dictins et leurs savants continuateurs n'ont fait qu'entamer. Vous voudrez done bien rechercher ce que vos collections manuscrites pour- raient contenir en fait de longues compositions epiques et chevalresques, chansons dites de geste, romans en vers ou en prose, se rapportant aux cycles de Charlemagne, d'Arthus, d'Alexandre, ou de la guerre de Troie, ou li toute autre variete de sujets. Vous en donneriez des indications et extraits qui permissent d'en determiner I'Sge. II serait precieux de retrouver des romans en prose anterieurs aux xiv* et xv« si^cles. Vous noteriez, dans les romans en vers, si les vers sont rimes par tirades monorimes, s'ils sont de douze, de dix ou de huit syllabes. Vous verriez, surtout au commencement ou a la fin de ces romans, quelquefois aussi au milieu et dans I'intervalle d'un livre a Tautre, s'il est fait mention de Vauteur et de la date, et vous transcririez fidtlement ces endroits. Les chroniques en vers, qu'il faut distinguer des romans, et dans le genre du Rou ou du Brutf vous offriraient une valeur historique etroitement unie ii la curiosite litteraire. Vous ne rechercherez pas avec moins d'interdt ce qui se pourrait decou- vrir en fait de miracles^ mj/stereSf moraliteSy farces^ sotiiseSy dialogues et debatSf pletSj etc., en un mot, tout ce qui se rapporte aux compositions et representations dramatiques de ces temps. Vous mettrez une cgale importance a tons manuscrits etendus en vers, quel qu'en soit le titre ; aux voyages, aux ecrits satiriques designts sous le nom de Bibles; a ceux qui s'intitulent BestiaiieSj VolucruireSy Lapidaires, ou qui s'oflriraient sous des titres latins ; aux esp^ces de compilations scienti- fiques, comme V Image du monde; aux grands ouvrages alk'goriques du genre du roman de la Rose ; aux grands apologues, aux brandies nouvelles qu'on pourrait retrouver du cClbbre roman du lienardf par exemple. Vous remar- queriez les traductions des EcritureSy les PsautierSj et en general toute tra- duction des auteurs anciens ; vous attacheriez un prix tout particulier aux grammaires, glossaires et traitcs sur la langue, composes dans ces sibcles, si vous en d^couvriez. Dans les genres de moindre etendue, et dont les pieces ne se trouven souvent point dans des manuscrits a part, mais aux dernieres pages seule- ment ou au milieu de manuscrits qui traitent de matibres toutes differentes, vous remarqueriez les chansons, lais, complaintes. rotruenges ; les fabliaux, les fables attribucs aux divers Ysopets ; les estampies, rondeaux,sirventais; les jeux-partis, les proverbes, diets et sentences, diets et contredicts ; les proses farcies, les carols, noels, sermons en vers, etc. Pour ces objets de pen d'eten- due et qui vous paraitraient de quelque prix, des copies entieres remplace- raient convenablement les indications et descriptions que vous reserveriez aux plus longs ouvrages. Des ecrits, en apparence trbs-etrangers a I'histoire litteraire, peuvent s'y rattacher par quelque point. Des traites en langue vulgaire sur les divers arts et metiers, sur diverses parties des sciences d'alors, des livres de compte meme, peuvent devenir precieux pour I'histoire des origines et des progrcs de la langue, par leur date, par leur terminologie. La litterature de ces epoques revendique tres-directement, et a titre presque de poemes didac- tiques, les traites en vers sur la chasse, sur I'equitation, sur les cchecs, etc. Des chroniques romanesques, sermons ou autres ecrits en prose latine, ne sont pas du tout Strangers a I'histoire de notre litterature franfaise, et peu- vent servir a I'eclaircissement de questions interessantes relatives au fond ou a la forme de certaines compositions, a, la langue dans laquelle elles parurent d'abord, etc. Les anciens livres d'oWices, en latin, peuvent offiir la premiere forme, encore liturgique, des miracles et des mf/steres. On trouve des mots fraiifais intercales dans des sermons latins des le xii^ siecle, et sans doute auparavaiit. Presque toutes les liturgies relatives aux evenements de la famille, au bapteme, au mariage, etc., contiennent des mots ou meme des portions de dialogue en langue vulgaire, dont il faudrait faire le releve. On ne devra pas non plus omettre les poemes latins de ces ages. En general, la recherche des ecrits latins du moyen age se lie de prcs, non-seule- ment a la connaissance du fonds litteraire commun de ces temps, mais aussi a I'etude philologique de notre langue, beaucoup de mots fran^ais, d'expres- sions franf aises, plus ou moins alteres de I'ancien latin, ayant contracte cette alteration dans leur forme de basse latiuite. Les manuscrits de poemes ou chroniques en langue romane proven^ale ne sont nuUement exclus de votre recherche. Tout ce qu'on en pourra de- couvrir et recueillir sera porte a I'infonnation des personnes savantes qui se sont occupees plus particulicrement de cette branche de notre litterature, et qui sont desormais maitres reconnus en pareille matifere. Les ouvrages en langue trouven e qui ont et^ composes dans un dialecte provincial particulier meritent attention ; on pourrait en eclairer I'etude par la connaissance du patois moderne coiTespondant. ill 374 Supplement. Supplement. 375 II s'est conserve, en quelques localit^s de la France, des fetes, des repre- sentations draniatiques popidaires dont I'origine semble remonter a une haute antiquite. II s'est conserve en certaines con trees k part, surtout en Bretagne et vers les Pyrenees, d anciennes traditions poetiques, desrecits superstitieux, des chants meme en langue du pays, alteres sans doute, mais evidemment transmis. II ne sera pas indifferent d'examiner et de noter ces restes du passe avant que la ci\'ilisation modeme et I'usage de la langue g^n^rale les aient fait disparaitre. Mais votre recherche, monsieur, n'est pas du tout limitee h cette ^poque du moyen age et aux siccles anterieurs au xvi*", sur lesquels j'ai cru devoir fixer d'abord votre attention. D'int^ressants resultats sont k espcrer encore pour les epoques suivantes, dans lesquelles Timprinierie semble avoir tout ^puise. Des copies peut-etre plus completes de certains ouvrages cdbbres, des correspondances jusqu'ici negligees, des ouvrages mtime que les circon- stances ont empeche d'imprimer en leur temps, peuvent venir ajouter en quelque chose a tout ce que la France possede dej^ de richesses litteraires ac- cumulees durant ces trois derniers siccles. Telles sont, monsieur, les instmctions que j'ai jugees necessaires et suffi- santes pour vous diriger dans la recherche des manuscrits traitant des ma- tibres scientifiques, philosophiques et litteraires. Les instructions relatives a Tart s'appliquent a une tout autre cla^e de monuments et m^ritent d'etre d^veloppees d'une mani^re tout a fait distincte des pr^cedentes. Je vous les adresserai successivement,* et je compterai toujours sur votre empresse- ment ^ me seconder dans des travaux d'un si haut intercJt, non-seulement pour chaque localite, mais pour notre patrie tout entibre. Recevez, monsieur, I'assurance de ma consideration la plus distinguee. Le Ministre Secretaire d'etat au departement de I'instruction publique, GuizoT. Paris, le 15 mai 1835. • Ces instractions, qui seront fort dtendues, ne sont pas encore com pU lenient r^digees et n'ont pu encore ^tre adressees aux correspondants^ Le Ministre Secrdtaire d'Etat au Departement de I'lnstmction Publique, A M. Sainte-Beuve, membre du second comite historique institue pr^s le muiistfere de I'instruction publique. Monsieur, En attendant les resultats des recherches que j'ai fait entreprendre sur les monuments de notre ancienne littcrature nationale, et pour donner a ces recherches memes im point de depart bien determine, je desirerais que vous voulussiez bien vous charger de rediger un expose, un compte-rendu precis et complet des divers travaux entrepris en France sur cette littcrature durant les trois derniers siecles. A partir du xvi*' sibcle, en eff'et, on commence en France a s'occuper de la littcrature anterieure, comme dune chose deju ancienne. Marot se fit editeur du roman de la Rose ; le president Fauchet, Etienne Pasquier et d'autres encore se livrbrent a quelques essais de critique sur ces monuments Utteraires. Sous quel aspect aborderent-ils cette etude ? Quelle idee s'en formerent-ils et quelles opinions s'accrediterent des lors ? La grandeur et Tcclat du siecle suivant durent naturellement distraire les esprits de ces recherches minutieuses sur la vieille littcrature maternelle, reputee informe et barbare. Les immenses travaux d'erudition executes par les Mabillon, les du Cange, ont un caractere particulierement historique ; la littcrature proprement dite ne trouve place chez eux qu'en quality de temoignage a I'appui de certains faits. II importe cependant dobserver et de bien constater le progr^s qui se prepara des lors dans la connaissance positive de nos anciens monuments litteraires, la veritable critique qui commen^a a leur sujet, et aussi les traditions qui se peqietuaient chez quelques amateurs erudits, comme Menage et la Monnoye. Ce fut dans le sibcle suivant que, grace aux Sainte-Palaye, aux Barbazan, etc., des publications litteraires non interrompues vinrent constituer rdgu- librement cette etude. Une analyse precise, jointe a une appreciation exacte de leurs travaux, ferait connaitre la fonnation, la suite et les progres de cette importante branche de critique et d'histoire littcraire jusqu'a nos jours. En s'arr^tant aux demieres annees, et sans entrer dans le detail des travaux contemporains, il y aurait a voir si quelque remarque lumineuse et fondamentale, en debrouillant la gramniaire de notre vieille langue, n'est pas venue recemment modifier les recherches litteraires qui s'y rapportent, en fixer les conditions, et y introduire un degr6 de precision auquelon n'avait pas encore songe. 376 Supplement, Ce sont la sans doute, monsieur, des aper^us bien superficiels, niais ils n'ont d autre objet que de vous indiquer ma pensee. Je desire que vous puissiez tracer ainsi un expose historique des rechercbes entreprises jusqu'ici sur notre vieille litterature, et qu'il resulte de votre travail un tableau exact des dtveloppements successifs et de I'otat actuel de cette interessante etude. Ce serait I^ une utile et belle introduction a la publication de ceux de nos monuments litteraires qui sont encore in^dits, et dont la recherche se poursuit avec tant d'ardeur. AgreeZ; monsieur, Tassurance de ma consideration tres-distinguce. Le Ministre Secretaire d ctat au departement de riustniction publique, GuizoT. Paris, le 19 septembre 1835. ( 377 ) XVII. Report of the Academy of Inscriptions and Belles Lcitres, on the Ecole des Chartes, [Referred to at page 239.] Academic des Inscriptions et Belies Lcttres.— Seance du Vendredi, 4 X.bre 1829. Monsieur Pardessus, au nom de la Commission chargee de proposer ses vues sur le projet de reglement relatif a I'Ecole des Chartes, fait le rapport suivant. ( " L'ordonnance du 11 9^r^ 1829 a present la remise en activite de I'Ecole l-oyale des Chartes crece le 22 fcvrier 1821 : elle determine, d'une mauicre plus explicite, que ne I'avait fait l'ordonnance de 1821, 1'objet de I'enseigne- ment, la destination de I'Ecole et la carriere ouverte aux eleves. L'art. 1 1 vcut que le Ministre de I'lnterieur fasse des reglemens pour la discipline de I'Ecole et VOrdre regulier des Etudes, apr^s avoir pris I'avis de 1' Academic des Inscriptions. " Le Ministre par sa lettre du 12 9^'% en transmettant Tordonnance a 1' Aca- demic, et en I'invitant a proposer ses vues sur le reglement, a ajoute : " * J'accueillerai avec un extreme intcret toutce que 1' Academic croira utile * de proposer pour seconder la munificence du Roi et la rendre efRcace.' ** La Commission que vous avez nommee dans votre seance du 13, m'a charge de vous presenter des observations sur chacun de ces objets."* *'P« Partie. " Developpcmens qu' on pent donner a t Institution. "L'objet des ordonnances du 22 fcvrier 1821, et 11 9bre 1829, est de faciliter I'etude, la recherche et la publication de nos antiquites nationales ; elles ont ete revues avec reconnaissance, parcequ'elles satisfont a un besoiu gcneralement senti et ^ des vceux depuis longtems exprimts de toutes parts. " La necessitc et le prix des veritables etudes historiques ne sont plus con- testds. La saine raison commence k faire justice des romans qu'on a cherchd fi donner pour de I'histoire ; elle repousse et condamme I'esprit de * " Le rapport sera divis6 en 2 parties ; dans la 1«". nous indiquerons les deve- loppemens dont Tordonnance du 11 9'"'e 1829 parait susceptible pour mieux at- teindre le but d'utilit^ que S. M. s'est proposee ; dans la 2^ nous presenterons, autant que la situation des choses I'a permis, quelques vues sur le reglement." 378 Supplement. Supplement. 379 systeme qui cherche h tounnenter les faits, pour les acconimoder h quelques opinions ou a quelques intdrets du moment. " C'est en puisant aux sources, que les historiens peuvent espdrer d'etre fidbles ; et faire connaitre ces sources, arracher a I'obscurite et ^ I'oubli tous les documens qui peuvent eclairer ceux qui ont besoin d'y recourir, c'est leur preparer les moyens de remplir cette tache ; ou ce qui n'est pas moins dans rintdrtit de la vdritd, c'est appeler des temoins qui dementiront les erreurs. " Tel dtaitle but que se proposaient les savans qui, au demier^si^cle, entre- prirent deux grands ouvrages, dont la continuation est confiee a 1' Academic des Inscriptions et Belles Lettres, savoir : La Collection des Historieni de Franccy commencce par D. Bouquet ; La Collection des Ordonnances des Rois de la 3««"«= race, commencte par Euslbe de Lauriere. " Cette demibre collection faisait la suite des Capitulaires des Rois de la 1'* et 2^ race, publiee par Baluze en 1677. " Mais des pieces qui n'etaient pas de nature a entrer dans ces collections et que Ton a coutume de designer dans la langue des savans par les noms de Chartesy DiplomeSj Priviliges et Documens divers, ne devaient pas rester dans Toubli. «* En 1746, trois savans qui appartenaient s\ T Academic des Inscriptions, Secousse, Foncemagne, et Sainte-Palaye, appelcrent sur cct objet I'attention d'un ministre eclaire (M^ de Machault). " On crut qu'avant d'entreprendre une publication qui devait etre lente et volumineuse, il serait utile de donner une table de toutes les pibces connues. C'^tait, d'ailleurs, appeler les lumibres et les secours de ceux qui pourraient indiquer des pibces omises dans la table. " Secousse fut charge de la dresser ; la mort le surprit dans son travail. " L'Abbd de Foy, s'aidant des notions recueillies par Secousse, publia en 1765 un volume de tables, accompagndes d'un extrait fran^ais de la pibce et de Vindication des sources dans lesquelles on pouvait la trouver. " Ce travail n'a pas 616 continu(^^. Le seul volume qui en ait pai-u, finit en 840. " Brequigny commen9a une nouvelle table, plus complete que celle de Foy, et plus ricbe en indications des sources. Le 1" volume parut en 1769; il fut suivi d'un second en 1775 et dun 3* en 1783. it Le 4eme yolume, iudiquant les pieces depuis 1170 jusqu'^ 1213, 6tmt sous presse, lorsque dans Tannte 1811, une mesure qu'on ne sait comment ex- pliquer ni comment qualifier, a detruit ce volume ainsi que plusieurs autres ouvrages importans dont la publication avait e te conmiencee par riroprimerie royale. Tout a ete vendu au poids. " Les auteurs de la table des chartes savaient tres bien que ce travail ne r^pondait pas suffisamment aux voeux du public ; ils s'occupaient de r^unir les tcxtea et de les faire imprimer avec des notes critiques. " Le !«' volume, intitule Diplomatay ChartXy S^c. adresfrandcasspectantiat dft a Brequigny et ^ Dutheil, a pani en 1791 : il commence k Tannic 475, et finit a Tannde 721 ; par consequent, il embrasse la 1«"« race. II est precede de prolegomenes, qu'on peut ranger parmi les monumens de la plus saine et de la plus profonde erudition. "Dutheil avait public en 1791 sous le mdme titre, Diplomatay Charta,de3 Lettres du Pape Innocent 3 ; mais il a donne a cette collection la denomina- tion de Pars Altera. En effet, les Lettres d'Innocent 3 ne pouvaient etre con- siderdes comme partie integrante de la collection des chartes : elles pouvaient tout au plus entrer a leur date dans le recueil des historiens de France, parmi les autres documens du meme genre, et c'est precisement le parti qu'ont pris les continuateurs de D. Bouquet. Ainsi, on doit dire qu'il n'existe en rdalite qu'un volume de la collection de I'Ecole des Chartes. " Nous ne rechercherons pas si quelques motifs rdels ont decidd le gouverne- ment a ne pas s'occuper de la reprise de cette collection et des tables, lorsqu'il a confie k I'Academie la continuation des historiens et des ordon- nances. " Pent-ctre a-t-on 6t6 moins frapp6 de la necessity de ce travail, parceque la collection des chartes ctait pen avancee lorsque la revolution I'a inter- rompue. Un Prince aussi dclairc que le feu Roi devait s'empresser de reparer cet oubh, et c'est, comme vous le savez, li sa munificence qu'est due la creation de I'Ecole des Chartes. " Lorsqu'on lit I'ordonnance du 22 fcvrier 1821, il est impossible de ne pas reconnaitre que I'intention du Roi dtait de faire continuer les grands travaux relatifs aux chartes, commences par les ordres et sous la protection de ses deux augustes prcdecesseurs, Louis XV. et Louis XVI. " Cette pensde a rvidemment aussi preside a la redaction de I'ordonnance du 11 9'"'« 1829; mais votre Commission pense que le but qu'on s'etait proposd ne serait pas parfaitement rempli par les deux ouvrages qu'indiquent les art. 4 et 8 de cette ordonnance. Aux termes du l^r de ces articles, Timpri- merie royale doit publier chaque annee, ' sous le titre de Bibliothtque de * VEcole des CharteSy un volume des documens que les cleves auront traduit, * avec le texte en regard. La Commission de I'Ecole est chargde de deter- * miner les traductions dignes d'entrer dans ce recueil.' " Votre Commission croit que cette publication aura, par elle-m^me, peu d'utilite ; qu'en tout cas il sera necessaire d'apporter quelques changemens au mode d'exdcution indiqud par I'ordonnance. " Pour bien comprendre une de nos plus importantes observations, il faut remarquer, 1°. que le Cours des Etudes dans I'Ecole des Chartes doit ^tre de 3 anndes (ordonnance du 11 9»>fe 1829, art. 2). " 2°. Que le cours de premiere amide aura uniquement pour objet d'ap- prendre aux elbves k dechiffrer ou a lire les chartes des diverses dpoques (meme article). " 3*. Qu'au mois de 9'''^ de la l'^ annde, la commission crdde par I'art. 4 propose des candidats en liste double, pour la nomination d'dlbves-pension- naires (art. 7). " 4®. Que ces candidats doivent, a dgalitd de titres, etre pris parmi ceux de i 380 Suppleinent, Supplement, 381 ileves qui ont contribtte a la publication de la Bibliothlqiie de VEcole des Chartes (art. 7), d'oii il est impossible de ne pas conclurre que cette Biblio- theque sera composee de traductions faites par ces ileves, ce sont les terines memes de I'art. 4 ; et par des cloves de l^e annde, c'est ce qu'on lit dans I'art. 7. "Or, que doivent apprendre les tlbves dans cette 1'^ annee? uniquement a dechiffrer et k lire les chartes. " La Bibliotht que de I'Ecole des Chartes sera done, a s'en tenir aux termes de I'ordonnance, composee de traductions faites par des el^ves qui sont presumes n'avoir appris qua lire et a dechiffrer. " Quoiqu'on puisse supposer que des jeunes gens ages de 18 ans, et bache- liers-fes-lettres, prendront proniptement I'habitude de lire et de dechiffrer, il est impossible, neanmoins, qu'ils aient acquis ce talent avant la !'« moitic de la l"-^ annee scholaire; ce ne pourra done etre que dans la 2e"'e moitie qu'ils pouiTont essayer de fliire des traductions ; et ce seraient ces traductions que la France offvirait au monde savant dans un recueil imprime aux frais du gouvernement ! " Peut-etre ne s'est-on pas fait une assez juste idee du travail dont il s'agit. Les documens connus sous le nom de Chartres, Diplomes, Privileges, &c. sont ecrits en Latin ou en vieux Francais, ou dans I'un des dialectes des anciennes provinces. " De ces trois idiomes, le Latin est sans doute celui que des bachcliers-es- lettres seront le plus capables de comprendre ; mais qu'on ne s'y trompe pas. Le Latin des 9^ ]0«, et 11* siecles, surtout le Latin des chartes et des diplomes, n'a rien de commun que le nom avec le Latin de Ciccron et de Tite-Live. La traduction en est quelquefois plus difficile ; il ofiVe un grand nonibre de mots empmntes aux langues tudesques, et aux autres langues etrangcres dont I'interpretation est extremement embarrassante. Plusieui-s de ces mots n'ont pas meme ete indiques dans le Glossaire de Du Cange. La lecture de ce savant ouvrage prouve d'ailleurs que I'acception d'un meme mot a varie suivant le tems et les lieux. " Les difficultes ne sont pas moins grandes, si Ton suppose que les documens seront en vieux Fran9ais ou en dialectes des anciennes provinces. " L'ctude et I'intelligence de ces idiomes n'ont jamais fait, ni pu faire, I'objet des travaux classiques par lesquels on parvient au baccalaureat-es-lettres. Les eleves seront transportes dans un monde nouveau ; il ne leur suffira pas d'avoir appris u lire et a dechiffrer : ils auront encore besoin d'apprendre a traduire, et aux termes de I'art. 2 de I'ordonnance, c'est dans la 2« et S*-' annee qu'on doit leur expliquer les divers dialectes du moyen age, dans les- quels les chartes peuvent etre ecrites. Supposons maintenant que quelques Aleves du l«f cours surmontant ces difficultes, aient fait des traductions dignes d'encouragement, exactes meme en tres grande partie, mais qui sous quelques points exigent des corrections ; sera-ce la Commission qui pourra ou qui devra les faire i Si, comme il arrive assez souvent, parmi les hommes instruits, les uns adoptent tel sens, qui sera reprouve par les autres, si la meme mani^re d'expliquer une abreviation, de suppleer un mot, de placer la ponctuation ; quelquefois meme, si les differentes manibres de rendre le sens dependent de quelques notions historiques ou geographiques, si I'expli- cation d'une expression doit ^tre prise dans les usages du temps ou des lieux, tons objets dont la diversite est frequente et probable ; il faudra done que la Commission corrige, a la majorite des voix, le travail d'un ecolier, et qu'elle public ensuite sous le nom de cet ecolier le travail corrige par elle ? " Car, ne perdons pas de vue les termes de I'art. 4 : La Bibliothcque de I'Ecole des Chartes doit contenir les traductions faites par les Hives que la Commission aurajugee dignes d'en faire partie. " Nous concevrions tres bien que les documens inedits les plus curieux, sur lesquels auraient porte les etudes et les travaux des eleves du second cours, fussent publics par la Commission sous sa responsabilite morale, avec la gai-antie du nom des savans qui la composeront ; alors le document serait accompagne de notes historiques et geographiques, d'explications qui in- diqueraient a quels usages certains passages font allusion, ou quels usages jusqu'aprbs eux inconnus ils constatent. Un jugement emane d'hommes dont les titres litteraires appelent la confiance, apprendrait si Ton doit con- siderer ces documens comme authentiques ou comme apocryphes, comme intbgres ou comme alteres ; les motifs de la critique seraient exposes. ** Telles sont les observations que nous vous proposons de soumettre au ministre, relativement a la publication indiquee par I'art. 4 de I'ordon- nance. " En supposant qu'il ne croye pas convenable de renoncer a cette publica- tion, nous proposons un article dont I'objet est de la restreindre aux pieces qui auraient fait I'objet des travaux des eleves de 3« annee ; et d'en exclurre pour eviter des doubles emplois et des depenses inutiles, celles de ces pibces qui, par leur nature, doivent entrer dans les collections des historiens, des ordonnances et du texte des chartes. " Nous passons k la publication prescrite par I'art. 8. II est ainsi con^u : " * Independamment de la Bibliothbque de I'Ecole royale des Chartes, I'im- *primerie royale public chaque annee un volume des chartes nationales, * qui seront disposees dans leur ordre chronologique, avec des notes critiques ; * ce recueil sera intitule : Bibliotheque de VHistoire de France' " Ce titre nous parait repondre mal a I'objet qu'on se propose ; car labiblio- thbque historique d'un pays ne consiste pas seulement dans les chartes ou diplomes, dont assurement nous n'avons pas I'intention de nier I'impor- tance. " Nous pensons qu'en donnant plus d'etendue a I'entreprise sans augmenter les depenses, on atteindrait mieux le but d'utilite que S. M. s'est propose. " D'abord, il serait convenable que la publication des textes se rattachat a celle dont le !«•• volume a ete commence en 1791 ; si, ce qui est douteux, quelques documens nouveaux ont ete retrouves, il sera facile de les publier par supplement, en meme tems qu'une table des noms d'hommes, de lieux et de matieres, qui manque au volume. 1 382 Supplement, Supplement, 383 " En second lieu, independamment de cette publication des texteg accom- pagnee de notes critiques, telle que la permet I'art. 8 de I'ordonnance, il est indispensable de continuer les tables. " Les savans academiciens qui avaient entrepris ce grand travail, et qui I'avaient suivi avec perseverance jusqu'au moment de la revolution, ne le confiderferent pas comme faisant double emploi avec la publication des textes dont ils etaient charges ; votre Commission partage cette maniere de voir. " Les tables n'exigeant pas des discussions critiques, et consistant unique- ment dans Vindication des ou\Tages imprimt's qui contiennent chaque pibce, un travail de ce genre avancera plus vite que la collection des textes. Or, c'est rendre un immense service aux savans que de leur apprendre I'exis- tence dune piece, et de leur indiquer I'ouvrage dans lequel ils pourront en consulter le texte. " La collection des chartes ne dt'passe point encore I'annee 721 ; celle des tables etait, comme nous I'avons dit, imprimte jusqu'en juin 1213. " II est VTai que I'edition du 4*^ volume, commen9ant a 1180 et finissant a juin 1213, a et^ dt'truite; mais quelques exemplaires sauves de la de- struction, se trouvent dans les bibliothbques des savans. Celle de I'lnstitut en possl^de un, et Ton pourrait, sans frais de manuscrit, faire, au cours de 1830, une reimpression qui equivaudrait au volume que limprimerie royale est chargee de publier. " Pendant cette reimpression, le travail pour la continuation des tables et des textes serait prepare ; quelque diligence qu on y apporte, nous doutons qu'il soit possible de composer un volume par an, de I'un ou de I'autre ouvrage. " Ainsi, I'imprimerie royale ne sera pas obligee a une ddpense plus con- siderable que celle que lui impose Tordonnance du 11 O^re 1829; et cepen- dant par le moyen que nous proposons, deux des plus beaux monumens historiques du dernier silcle pourront etre acheves. " Jusqu'ici, comme vous le voyez, les observations de votre Commission tendent moins ii obtenir des modifications a Tordonnance du 11 Q^""*^ 1829, qu'a mieux en assurer I'execution. " Mais il est un point plus delicat a traiter, et sur lequel, cependant votre Commission ne craint pas de sexprimer avec franchise, parcequ'animee des aeules vues d'utilite, elle est convaincue qu'on rendra justice a ses intentions lors meme qu'on ne partagerait pas sa maniere de voir. " La publication des textes des chartes par ordre chronologique, accom- pagnes de notes critiques, doit, aux tennes de I'art. 8 de I'ordonnance, t^tre faite par la Commission mixte dont le second alinea de Tart. 4 determine la formation. Cette Commission est, vous le savez, composi e du secretaire perpetuel et 2 membres de I'Academie, de trois conseiTateurs de la Biblio- thbque royale et du garde des archives du royaume. " Notre opinion est, qu'il serait plus utile et m<^me plus conforme aux intentions qui ont preside a retablissement et a la remise en activite de I'Ecole des Chartes, de confier ce travail a I'Academie des Inscriptions et Belles Lettres. " L'Academie est chargee de la collection des historiens de France, et de celle des ordonnances du Louvre. II existe entre ces deux collections et celle des chartes des rapports presque indivisibles. ** Deja les savans academiciens a qui le travail des historiens et des ordon- nances est confic, voulant dedommager le public de I'interruption de la col- lection des chartes, et desesperant de la voir reprendre, ont insere dans leurs recueils les textes de quelques chartes; ils en ont reuni et prepare un bien plus grand nombre^ dans la meme intention. Certainement, ils se seraient born^s et se borneraient ulterieurement a de simples indications, s'ils avaient Tassurance que la continuation des tables et des textes sera faite par I'Aca- demie. <* Si le meme corps savant 4j Supplement, dresses d'aprls les notes tenues par les professeurs des cours elementaires, tiendront lieu de certificat d'assiduitc h ces cours. Art. 4.^Les cleves concurrents seront avertis, par lettre a domicile, du jour, de I'heure et du lieu du concours. Art. 5.-I1 s'ouvrira, pour cette fois, le lundi 13 decembre prochain, a midi precis dans un des cabinets du dcpartenient des manuscrits u la Bibliotheque du Roi. Les menibres de la Conmiission en seront egalement informes par M. le President. Les seances seront publiques. Art 6.-Les epreuves du concours sont reglees ainsi qu'il suit : A I'ouverture de 1- stance, il sera depose sur le bureau autant de paquets separes de Chartes qu'il y aura de concurrents: chaque paquet portera un n^ et sera compose de deux chartes, I'un en latin, I'autre en franjais, et d'epoques differentes. . v i. Les concurrents tireront ces paquets au sort. Immediatement apres, ct dans I'ordre du no. qui leur sera cclui, clmque concurrent sera appcK;, pour memibre opreuve, a lire d'abord la charte latine, h en donner oralement 1 in- terpretation en franvais, et a repondre aux questions qui lui seront fa.tes par demies de la Commission, soit sur le materiel de la charte, soU sur_ sa partie graphiquo. 11 sera proccde de mfcme a I'ogard de la charte fran9a.se. Les chartes qui serviront a eette premiere qneuve resteront deposees sur le bureau, et ne seiont remises a I'clcve qu'au mon>ent des epreuves et pendant leur duree seulement. Art 7 _Aprl-s que tous les concurrents auront satisfait a cette premiere partie deVexan.en, les chartes latines et franvaises qui y auront serv. seront ^umerotee de nouveau une u une, sans distinction des idiomes ; chaque flfeve en tirerauneau sort, eteUe sera pour lui le sujet d'une composition cente, ou 2'"°' epreuve du concours. Cette composition consistera dans la transcription de la Charte, en souhgnant dans la copie les lettres et les syllabes qui suppleeront les abrcviations de IWinal, et dans sa traduction du latin et fraufais ou du fraufais aneien en lan/age moderne. L'cRvc y ajoutera tous les cclaircissements critiques, h.s- tolues ou ehronologiqnes qui d.pendront de lui, et sans autre second exte- rieur que YAH dc .vn>r les Dates, qui sera, a cet effet, depose sur le bureau^ Cette operation sera faite dans une seulc seance, qui durera de midi a 4 hcures tous les elives presents. Le jour en sera fixe par la Commission, qm nourra dfl^guer un de scs membres pour I'y reprcsenter '^Chlque cLposition portera, dans un pli cachete et bien ferm<:., le nom de I'flfeve qui en sera I'auteur. Art 8 -Les compositions passerout dans cet ^at sous les yeux de la Coin- mission qui, d'aprcs leur examen, donnera a chacune, et a la majority des ^U TnV dWre ou de mcrite; aprbs quoi les plis cachetes seront ouverts, lua'commissionprocederaensuite, Cgalement u la majonte des voix k la Jltion de la lis'te definitive des candidats, en combinant les rCsulUU d. deux Epreuves auxqwUes les concturents auront ete soumis. Si le nombre Supplement, 395 des compositions depassait le nombre des candidats a presenter, toute compo- sition portant un n". superieur a ce dernier nombre serait, par ce fait, hors de concours. Art. 9. — II sera tenu un proces-verbal de toutes les operations, pour y avoir recours au besoin. La Commission dctenninera I'ordre successif de ses seances. Art. 10. — La presence de la moitie plus un des membres de la Commis- sion suffira pour assurer la validity de ses decisions. Art. 11. — Les deux professeurs du cours elementaires seront invitds k se reunir a la Commission, pour prendre part aux operations et au jugement du concours, avec voix consultative. Art. 12. — Aux termes de Tart. 5 du rcglement definitif du 17 novembre courant, copie du present sera adressee a M. le Ministre de I'lnterieur, Fait et arrete en Commission, A Paris le 26 novembre 1830. Pour copie conforme, Le President de la Commission, Signe Pardessus. (Approuve par M. le Comte de Montalivet, Ministre Secretaire d'Etat de rint^rieur.) If ( 396 ) V, 4 XVIII. Ordinance of William, King of the Netherlands^ inviting learned men to furnish a plan for the construction of a National History on authentic materials ; dated 23 December, 1826. [Referred to at pages 240, 241.] Nous GUILLAUME, Roi des Pays-Bas, etc, etc. etc, Considerant qu*il existe sur ITiistoire de notre pays de nombreux documens qui n'ont point ^t^ exactement examines ou dont on n'a encore fait aucini usage, et qu'il n'y a, jusqu'ici, aucune histoire des Pays-Bas faite d'apres des pieces authentiques, et qui embrasse toutes les parties de ce royaume ; Considerant qu'une telle histoire aurait le grand avantage de nourir I'amour de la patrie, d'affermir les vertus civiques et de'fortifier le caracterc national ; Vu le rapport de notre ministre de I'intCrieur du 14 du courant, n« 115; Avons arrete et arrtitons ; Art. P^ II sera pris des mesures pour faire decouvrir, examiner et mettre au jour, dans I'int^ret de I'histoire des Pays-Bas, les documens qui la con- cement et qui, jusqu'ici, sont restes inconnus ou dont il n'a point (-te fait un usage suflfisant 2. Tons les savans nationaux qui s'occupent de travaux bistoriques, sont invites ii Nous faire parvenir avant les fetes prochaines de Paques : 1*». Un plan detaille, d'aprbs lequel ils pensent qu'il conviendrait d'dcrire une Histoire generale des Pays-Bas, uniquement basee sur les documens authentiques, et justifi^e par eux dans toutes ses parties ; 2o. Une indication des moyens qu'ils croient les plus propres a I'ex^cution de ce plan. S®. Celui dont les vues aprl'S avoir <5te soumises a un examen special seront reconnues par Nous les meilleures, qui ayant d'ailleurs les capacit^s n^cessaires, voudra se charger de la partie principale du travail, sera nommd par Nous, sur le pied il ^tablir ult^rieurement, historiographe du royaume* 4. Ceux qui dans la suite auront composd le meilleur ouvrage sur quelque partie s^par^e de I'Histoire des Pays-Bas, en rCponse ;\ des questions qui seront propos^es, seront non-seulement indemnis6s de leurs travaux, mais ils recfevront encore de Nous des distinctions honorifiques ou toute autre tecompense. ' Supplement, 397 5. Notre ministre de Tint^rieur est charg^ de donner les ordres n^cessaires aux gouvemeurs de toutes les provinces et du grand-duche de Luxembourg, a Veffet de faire mettre en ordre et classer toutes les archives des provinces, villcs, communes et corporations, et d'en faire dresser des inventaires dont un double sera envoye a Notre dit ministre, pour qu'on puisse en tirer parti pour la composition de I'histoire generale des Pays-Bas. Notre ministre de I'int^rieur est charge de I'execution du present arrete. Donnd a Bruxelles, le 23 decembre de Tan 1826. Sign^ GuiLLAUME. ( 398 XIX. Memoire, par M. le Baron de Reiffenberg, " Sur les tentatives faites au sein de VAcademie pour la publication des Monumens inedits de rHistoire Belgique" [Referred to at page 241.] En 1769, flit etablie a Bnixelles la Societe litteraire, qui refiit, trois ans aprfes, le titre d'Academie imperiale et royale des Sciences et Belles-Lettres. A la premibre seance de cette societe, tenue dans I'hotel et en presence de M. de Neny, chef-president du conseil prive, il fut propose de faire faire tons les ans, par deux des membres, un voyage litteraii-e,* dont lobjet principal serait d'annoter ou de rassembler les manuscrits et autres pibces rares, de nature a servir li I'histoire belgique. Ce projet fut encore discute dans plu- sieurs autres seances, et devint I'objet d'une correspondance entre le secretaire M. Gerard, et quelques-uns de ses coUbgues. M. J. B. Verdussen, qui posse- dait une bibliothbque aussi riche que choisie, setait engage a fournir quelques manuscrits, et le secretaire, un certain nombre de livres imprimes peu communs. Les cboses en etaient dans ces termes, lorsqu'on fut inform^' que les J^suites avaient dessein d'executer, sous le titre d*Analecta Belgica, un travail analogue a celui que meditait la Societd. Celle-ei renon9a aussitot a son plan. Denuce de fonds, et rest6e sans appui par la mort du Comte de Cobenzl, il lui etait interdit de hitter contre im corps puissant qui, outre la facilitc qu'il avait de puiser dans ses bibliothbques considerables, pouvait, au moyen de nombreuses correspondances, et d'immenses richesses, enlever tons les manuscrits et les livres rares necessaires a ses vues. Aprbs la suppression des Jesuites, la Societe litteraire, decoree du titre d*Academie, offrit d'executer le travail annonce par ces Pbres, sous la con- dition qu'on lui accorderait I'usage des livres et manuscrits recueillis par eux, ainsi que les fonds qu'ils avaient destin6s a en augmenter le nombre, u payer des copistes et a couvrir d'autres depenses de cette espbce. MM. Ge- rard, Needham et Marcy remirent les propositions de T Academic a M. de Neny ; raais ils n'obtinrent du gouvemement aucune reponse. • Tel que ceux dont les PP. Martene et Durand, M. Millin et d'autres, nous ont laiss^ des relations. Dom Berthed pr^senta, le 24 f^vrier 1780, a I'Academie, un Vayage litttraire dans les Pays-Bas, dans lequel il faisait connaitre un certain nombre de manuscrits. Mais I'Academie, qui attendait d'autres mat^riaux du meme genre, pour en former un recueil complet, remit a un autre temps I'impres- sion de ce memoire qui n'a point paru. Supplement. 399 Quoi qu'il en soit, la compagnie se prepara h remplir ses promesses. Entre autres chroniques, elle avait fait copier le recueil d'A Thymo. M. Des Roches offi-it ses notes et ses dissertations, pour le mettre en ^tat de paraitre convenablement, et voulut le faire preceder par Dinterus, egalement commente. Ces travaux furent abandonn€s, lorsqu'en 1778 le gouvernement manifesta I'intention d'en confier ofRciellement I'execution a d'anciens Jesuites. A leiu* t^te se trouvait le P. Ghesquiere, que avait deja public : " Prospectus operis quod inscribetur: Analecta Belgica, ad XVII. provinciarum Belgii ac ditionum interjacentium historiam dilucidandam. Antverpiae, ex typis J. Grange." En 1785, lorsqu'il repondait a I'avocat d'Outrepont sur la question des dimes, il prenait encore les qualites d'historiographe et de pre- pose h la redaction des Analectes Belgiques, aux(juclles il sembla renoncer depuis. Les details qu'on vient de lire et ceux qui suivent m'ont pani d'autant plus dignes d'etre recueillis, que M. Dewez n'en dit rien dans son Rapport sur les Travaux de I'Academie de 17G9 k 1822. Etcependant quoi de plus propre a honorer cette compagnie, que d'avolr con^u une entrcprise, dont quelques faibles parties seulement avaient ete cmbrassees jadis par P. Scri- verius, Chapeaville, Jean Van der Does, Ant. Matthseus, Miraeus, Foppens, F. Sweertius, Dumbar, Hoynck Viin Papcndrecht, etc., cntreprise qu'il lui seait, plus qu'a personne, de mettre a fin, et dans laquelle les Jesuites avaient d'autant moins bonne grace de la contrecarrer, qu'ils ne comptaient parmi eux qu'un seul homme propre a ce genre de speculations, celui-la meme qui avait redige le Prospectus des Analectes. En 1779, M. Gerard lut a 1' Academic un plan qu'il deposa sur le bureau, le 27 Janvier, 1 780, et dans lequel il communiquait ses idees, sur la Manihe de publier les historiens ct In wonumcns qui pouvaient illnstrcr Hiistoirc belgique. Voici le precis de ce plan, sur lequel MM. Des Roches, Paquot, Du Chasteler et Nelis, fircnt des observations quelquefois severes, mais gene- ralement favorables. M. Gerard avait ete porte a s'occuper de cet objet, par la consideration que quelques-uns ties ci-devant Jesuites, conmiis a la pub- lication des Analectes, n'avaient pas voulu se contenter du traitement qui leur avait ete allouc, et qu*en consequence le gouvernement n'etait pas ^loigne de recourir a I'Academie qui, dbs le princii)e, aurait du fixer son at- tention. En premier lieu, M. Gerard blamait Ic titre {fC Analecta Belgica qui n'indique que des pieces de peu d'etendue, des especes de rognures histo- riques. II lui preferait celui de Rerum Belgicurum scriptoj^eSj ou de Monu- mtnla historic Belgica ; et M. Du Chasteler inclinait pour ce dernier, at- tendu que le recueil projete devait comprendrc non-seulement les historiens et chroniqueurs proprement dits, mais les chartes, diplomes, capitulaires, etc. M. Gerard desirait comprendre dans sa collection : 1°. Les extraits des auteurs anciens grecs et latins, dans lesquels il est fait mention des Pays-Bas. 400 Supplement, M. Du Chasteler remarqua que ce travail etait trbs-avanc^, Dom Bouquet ayant r^uni, a peu prbs, tout ce que les anciens avaient dit des Gaules ou la Belgique etait comprise. II ne restait done plus que deux choses k faire : Tune, d'extraire du corps des historiens de la France ce qui devait entrer dans celui des historiens de la Belgique ; I'autre, d'y ajouter ce que Dom Bouquet et ses successeurs avaient pu omettre. 2°. Les inscriptions, antiquit^s, m^dailles, qui avaient existe ou qui ex- iataient encore dans les Pays-Bas ou ailleurs, pourvu qu'elles fussent propres a ^'claircir I'histoire de nos provinces. 3»». Les extraits des auteurs du moyen ilge, de difFcrentes nations, ainsi que ceux des Vies des Saints qui avaient trait li la mdme histoire. Quant aux Vies des Saints, M. Du Chasteler etait d'avis d'en laisser le d^pouillement aux BoUandistes, mieux verses que personne dans ce travail: et en effet, il a cte fort bien execute par MM. Jos. Ghesqui^re, Corn. Smet et Isfride Thys, de 1783 ^ 1794reft six volumes in-4o.» Le sixifeme volume, imprime dans I'abbaye de Tongerioo, ne se rencontre pas fr^quem- ment. 4o. Les histoires des Pays-Bas qui n'avaient jamais ei6 imprimees, et qui avaient assez d'interCt pour Tetre en entier ou par fragmens. 5o. Les histoires des Pays-Bas deja publiees, mais devenues rares et qui meritaient d'etre reproduites. 6«. Les extraits des historiens etrangers et contemporains qui avaient ecrit depuis le moyen Hge, et qui pouvaient avoir quelque liaison avec les Anuales des Pays-Bas. 70. Les lois anciennes, les conciles ou synodes, les diplomes encore inedits, ceux qui n'avaient et6 publics que par extraits, ou qui I'avaient ete incor- rectement par Le Mire ou par d'autres. Tel edt ete le fonds de I'ouvrage. Voici presentement pour la forme. M. Gerard pensait : 1». Qu'il fallait, autant que possible, suivre I'ordre chronologique, c'est-a-dire, placer les auteurs selon le temps ou ils avaient vecu, en se relachant de ce principe lorsque la chose serait absolument ne- cessaire. >. Qu'il serait expedient de consulter toutes les copies qu'on pourrait se procurer du meme auteur ainsi que les diff'erentes Editions des livres im- primes, d'eclaircir le texte par des notes et d'y joindre les variantes. • Leibnitz applaudit a la publication des Acta Sanctorunit et 6crivit meme au marquis de Westerloo que, quand les Jesuites n'auraient produit que cet ouvrage, iU auraient m6rit6 d'etre venus au monde et d'en ^tre souhait^s et estim^s. J. J. Chifflet a eu raison d'6crire : " Stemma Austr. ad Acta Sanctgi'um quod attinet, " certum est ipsius Provinciarum, urbium et famillarum historias ex ilUs raagnam " mutuari lucem ; unde Caesar Baronius, Andreas Chesnius, Aubertus Miraeus, "Guillelmus Cambdenus, Martinus Crusius, Philippus Cluverius, aliique viri " docti ex Vitis Sanctorum et Monumentis ccenobiorum permulta eaque firmissima " vetustatis haus^re testimonia." Ghesquiere a donn6 ce passage pour 6pigraphe a sa compilation hagiographique. Supplement. 401 3°. Enfin, il demandait que I'Academie, n'envisageant dans cette entre- prise que I'utilite publique, se bornat a s'indemniser de ses avances, sans viser u aucun benefice. Ces bases posees, il divisait son recueil en sept parties, qu'on eut pu se procurer separement, et qui repondaient aux sept divisions que Ton vient de voir. La premiere partie eftt ete consacree li I'ancienne geographic, d'apres Ptolomee, Strabon, Pomponius Mela, Cesar, Tacite, Pline le Naturaliste, Ammien Marcellin, etc., et Ortelius, Brietius, Valois, Cluvier, Cellariu.i, d'Anville, etc., en tuchant de concilicr les opinions contraires de ces auteurs, ou de faire voir les erreurs ou ils sont tombes. Cette partie aurait pu titre terminee par une notice alphabctique de toutes les villes, villages et chateaux situ^s dans I'ttendue des Pays-Bas autrichiens, avant Tannte 600 de 1 ere chretienne : notice dans laquelle on eut dcsigne I'emplacement de ces villes, villages ou chateaux, avec leurs noms anciens ou actuels, et un abrege des ^•venemens remarquables qui s'y passcrent durant les six premiers sibcles. La seconde partie eiit ete entierement archcologique. M. Gerard augu- rait que la province de Luxembourg fournirait une ample moisson pour cet objet. MM. Heylen et de Bast n'avaient pas encore public leurs re- cherches: le premier, dans nos Mcmoires; le second, dans des recueils s('par6s. Notre academicien avait trouve les manuscrits originaux de Guillaume Wiltheim, dans la bibliotheque des ci-devant Jesuites de Luxembourg, et une copie de I'ouvrage de son frtre Alexandre, dans la bibliotheque de I'archi- duc Charles. II conseillait de les donner au public, soit en entier, soit par extraits, et recommandait de prcter une attention particulibre u ces tumuli, qu'on rencontre dans quelques-unes de nos provinces, et qui ont fourni a M. Lepeintre le fond d'une de ses faceties de mauvais gout. La troisibme partie devait se composer encore d'extraits des auteurs anciens mis li contribution dans la premiere, ce qui aurait occasionne des redites inutiles, qu'il etait cependant facile d'eviter au moyen de quelques renvois. Ces extraits eussent ete fortifies de differentes dissertations sur I'etat des Pays-Bas avant et apr^s la venue des Remains, et pendant le rcgne d€% premiers rois francs ; sur les premieres invasions des peuples du Nord, si bien eclaircies depuis par M. Depping ; sur la religion, les moeurs, usages et coutumes des peuples qui ont habitc ce pays ; sur les premiers etablissemens des Francs dans les Gaules ; sur la propagation du christianisme, etc., le tout terminc par des fragmens d'ecrivains du moyen age, et par un tableau chronologique de I'histoire des six premiers siccles, dresse d'apres ces mCmes auteurs. La quatri^me partie eut embrasse la geographic des Pays-Bas au moyen Tige, c'est-ii-dire, du septibme au douzieme sibcle. M. G(3rard faisait observer que les auteurs contemporains, si Ton exceptait I'anonyme de Ravenne, offriraient peu de lumiiircs pour cette gcographie. II se proposait de recourir principalement aux archives des maisons religieuses. D D 402 Supplement, telles que ceTle« de I'abbaye de Saint-Bertin k Saint-Omer, dont I'abbe se pr^parait k faire imprimer un recueil de donations ; celles de Saint-Pierre de Gand, de Saint-Hubert en Ardennes, ainsi que des chapitres de Sainte- Waudni a Mons, et de Sainte-Gertnide a Nivelles. Ici serait venue se placer une description des Pays-Bas autricbiens au moyenage, parjoflgi, ou cantons et comt^s, avec une notice alphabetique et raisonnee des endroits qui en ressortissaient, tant au sacrc qu'au profane. Dans la cinqui^me partie eussent 6i6 r^unis les extraits des ^crivains du moyen fige, relatifs a la Belgique. Ce travail exigeait des recbercbes im- menses. II n'y avait point alors, dans la bibliotb^que royale, de manuscrits historiques du moyen ^ge, et M. Gerard n'en avait trouve que tres-peu dans les bibliotbeques des ci-devant Jesuites ; mais il comptait en decouvrir dans les arcbives des villes et de plusieurs maisons religieuses. On lui avait dit que Touniay en possedait quelques-uns, de meme que les abbayes de Saint- Martin de la meme ville, de Saint- Pierreii~Gand, des Dunes a Bruges, le prieur^ de Saint-Martin a Louvain, tresors aujourd'hui disperses. M. Ge- rard les avait visites, mais sans avoir le loisir de les examiner en detail. Pour le meme but, il avait pousse ses investigations jusque dans Tabbaye de Saint-Guilain en Hainaut, et dans celle de Saint-Maximin a Treves ; il n'y avait malbeureusement d^couvert que des bibles, des ouvrages des saints Pbres, et un petit nombre de litterateurs anciens. Les MSS. bistoriques de la premibre de ces abbayes avaient ete enleves par les Franfais pendant qu'ils occupaient nos provinces, et ceux de I'abbaye de Saint-Maximin avaient 6te brules ou derobcs. Dans ses courses, M. Gerard avait consulte d'autres depots, bien inutilement. Neanmoins il avait vu, i\ Ypres, une ancienne cbronique d'Iperius, qui differait en quelques endroits de celle publi^e par les benedictins fran9ais Martene et Durand. II avait aussi connaissance de la Cbronique de Gilbert, publiee plus tard par le marquis Du Chasteler, qui avait promis d'y joindre un volume de notes et d appendices. C'^tait cette partie qu'il regardait comme la plus interessante, et pour la- quelle il voulait qu'on recouriit surtout aux ecrivains Strangers, que les notres alors ne connaissaient pas, en les rectifiant toutefois. Une notice biograpbique et bibliograpbique des bommes celebres de cette ^poque lui paraissait indispensable. II eCit volontiers tei-mine cette partie par I'extrait des Vies des Saints des Pays-Bas, au moyen age ; par une dissertation qui cut represente 1 etat de ces contrees a la m^me 6poque ; enfin, par un abr^ge cbronologique de notre bistoire du 6^ au 12^ sibcle, tire uniquement des auteurs contemporains. La sixibme partie, qui se serait etendue depuis le 12e sifecle jusqu'au 17% aurait compris : lo. Les manuscrits bistoriques mCdiis des Ecrivains de ce p^riode, en cntier ou par extraits, selon leur degr^ d'inter^t ; 2«. Les livTCs deja imprimis, mais rares, se rapportant au mfeme objet ; 3o. Des extraits d'bistoriens etrangers ; 40. Une notice des bommes c61bbres, avec la liste de leurs ecrits. Supplement, 403 II y avait deux partis a prendre : Tun de publier les bistoriens selon leur age, I'autre de les reunir par provinces, et de publier a part les bistoriens generaux, suivant le temps ou ils avaient vecu. M. Gerard se pronon^ait en faveur du second parti, par des raisons d'eco- nomie et de commoditc^ pour les lecteurs. II faisait, en cette rencontre, des reflexions malignes sur les prix pretenddment eleves des livres classiques publies par la commission des etudes. Des Rocbes, qui etait de cette com- mission et y faisait beaucoup de bien, releva avec chaleur I'attaque detournee de son bilieux collegue. La sixieme partie aurait ete, comme les autres, accompagnee de sa topo- grapbie ainsi que de sa cbronologie speciales. Enfin, la septi^me partie eiit ete diplomatique. Lois, traites, cbartes, actes synodaux, etc., elle n'eCit rien neglige. Ici la distribution par pro- vinces etait encore preferee, et cela toujours par des motifs de commodite et d'economie. Cbaque volume de cette partie devait etre precede de dissertations qui re- prdsenteraient, sibcle par sibcle, letat politique de cbaque province, a pen prbs comme M. NybofF I'a fait recemment pour la Gueldre, dans ses Ge- denkwaardigheden uit de geachiedenis van Gelderland, t. P"", Arnhem, 1830, in4«. Tous les actes non publies textuellement scraient indiques selon I'ordre de leur date, avec des renvois aux ouvrages qui les contiennent. Enfin, tous les volumes indistinctement seraient enricbis de tables de- taillees et de notes courtes et substantielles. M. Gerard terminait par cette reflexion : " Si le gouvernement cbargeait " d'autres personnes que les membres de la classe d'histoire, de la redaction " de cet important ouvrage, il ne resterait li ceux-ci, declares incapables, *' par ce seul fait, d'autre ressource que de renoncer au titre d'academicicn, **devenu ignominieux pour eux, et de regretter le temps qu'ils auraient "jusqu'ici employe gratuitement et inutilement li I'etude de I'bistoire bel- ti gique. Tel fut le projet de M. Gerard ; il ne dependait pas de I'Academie de Tapprouver en tout ou en partie, mais elle ne perdit jamais de vue le dessein de publier un grand corps d'liistoire. Pour faciliter ses travaux, on avait erigd une bibliotbeque publique, dans le local de laquclle elle tenait ses stances, et qu'elle enricbissait d'acquisitions nouvelles faites sur ses propres fonds, ou de cadeaux qui lui etaient adresses. C'est ainsi qu'elle y fit de- poser, en 1779, un ouvrage MS., et cru perdu, de Caspar Scioppius, lequel 6tait intitule : Machiavellicorum operte pretium. II avait ete envoye par M. Perrenot, conseiller du prince d'Orange. M. de la Soma a detaille, dans son Mcmoire bistorique sur la bibliotbeque de Bourgogne, les accroissemens successifs qu'elle dut a notre compagnie et dont elle jouit encore, quoiqne I'Academie n'ait point conserve sur ce depot litteraire sa legitime surveillance, tout en continuarit d'en angmenter les ressources. Les memoires des Academiciens et les dissertations couronntes dans les o D 2 404 Sttpplement, concours ouverts par la compagiiie, exceptes, ses travaux en histoire, sont exposes dans la preface de la collection des Res Belgica:, preface redigee en latin par de NeUs, qui la publia li Panne, cliez Bodoni, en 1795, in 8' maj. de 68 pp., avec le portrait de I'auteur grave par Rasaspina. Cet in- teressant opuscule avait dej.\ ete imprime i\ Anvers, en 1790, in 4", avec une traduction libre en franfais et anonyme, mais ecrite par M. J. B. Les- broussart. Cette edition a 115 pp. C*est a tort que le catalogue du docte J. G. Te Water porte cette note au n° 1375 : " desinit liber, p. 90. Reliqua autem, quod sciani, impressa non sunt." Je ne connais pas I'edition de Rome dont parle la Biogr. Universclle. M. de Nelis avait commence, a I'imprimerie de Tuniversite de Louvain, des especes d'Amlecies, dont quelques fragmens seulement ont et^ acheves ; nous disons analectes, quoique ce titre ni tout autre ne se retrouve pas. (T. I., P« partie.) "Oratio Martini Dorpii, theologi, de laudibus sigillatim cujusque disciplinarum, ac araaenissimi EHvaHii, Academioeque Lovaniensis," avec des notes de I'editeur comme les pibces suivantes, pp. 1— 6G. Nous parlons de cette pibce dans nos Memoires sur I'universite de Louvain. *« Martini Dorpii tomus aululariae Plautinse adjectus," pp. 67—94. " Petri Castellani Indus sive convivium saturnale," pp. 95—139. " Ervcii Puteani auspicia bibliothecce publicae Lovaniensis," pp. 140—192. Ce morceau u'est pas entibrement imprime. (T. I., 2« part.) " Viglii ab Ayta Zuichemi dissertationes bistorico-prag- malicffi quinque, de rebus Lotbaringicis, Brabanticis, Luxemburgensibus, Namurcensibus et Burgundicis," pp. 1—48. Cette pibce inacbevee s'arr^te u la 3*= page de " Brevis bistoria comitum Namurcensium." (T. II.) " Tabulse public je Lovaniensium, sive veteres cbartoe quibus con- cessa Lovaniensibus privilegia et alia plurima continentur. Ab anno Mccxxxiii. ad annum usque mccclxviii." Ce recueil s'arrete ii la page 176. La demibre pibce, qui u'est pas finie, est de I'an 1332. On pent encore se procurer a Utrecbt : "Joacbimi Hopperi, Frisii, epistolae ad Viglium ab Ayta Zuicbemum, sanc- tions concilii prsesidem." Trajecti ad Rbenum, B. Wild et J. Altbeer, 1802, in 4" de 395 pp. Le titre a ete ajoute aprbs coup. Ce qui nous a engage a consigner ici ces details bibliograpbiques, c'est que la Biographie Vniverseltc n'cn fait nuUe mention, et qu'ils sont d'ailleurs peu connus. Tons ces travaux furcnt suspendus par la revolution brabarivonne, et states pour toujours par la revolution fran9aise. hi ( 405 ) XX. Commission issued by Lcojjold, King of the Belgians, for the dis- covery and imhlication of the inedilcd Chronicles of Belgium, 22 July, ISS^, [Referred to at page 241.] LEOPOLD, etc. Considcrant que tons les travaux, qui ont pour objct de repandre des lu- micres sur I'bistoire de la Belgiquc, meritent notrc sollicitude ; Qu'ils doivent contribuer li la fois au dcveloppement du patriotisme et aux progrbs des lettrcs ; Que, ddja, mu par ce motif, nous avons ordonnc la publication des cata- logues des arcbives de I'etat et celle des documens interessans pour I'bistoire genC'rale du royaume, qui existent tant dans ces archives que dans les autres depots de titres du pays ; Consid6rant que la mise au jour des chroniques beiges inedites doit cou- courir puissamment au meme but ; Sur le rapport de notre ministre de I'interieur, Nous avons arreite et arrcitons : Art. P^ Une commission est instituce a Teffet de rechercber et mettre aU jour les chroniques beiges inedites. Cette commission est composde de : M'*. de Gerlache, premier prdsident de la cour de cassation, membre de I'acad^mie royale des sciences et belles-lettres de Bruxclles ; L'abbd de Ram, archiviste de rarchevcche et professeur au seminaire archiepiscopal de Malines ; Le baron de ReifTenberg, professeur a Tuniversitc de Louvain, membre de Tacaddmie de Bmxelles ; Dewez, inspecteur des atbences et colleges, secretaire-perpetuel de I'aca- ddmie de Bruxelles ; Gacbard, arcbiviste-gendral du royaume ; WarnkoBnig, professeur a I'universite de Gand ; Et J. F. Willems, receveur, a Eecloo. 2. La commission sera installee par notre ministre de rintcrieur. Elle s'occupera, dans ses premibres seances, de la redaction d'un plan poiU- ses travaux, qu'elle soumettra a I'approbation de notre dit ministre. 3. 11 sera mis u la disposition de la commission jusqu'a I'enticr accom- plissement de la ttiche qui lui est confiee, une somme annuclle de cinq mille francs, destinde ^ couvrir les frais de toutc nature qu'elle aura k supporter; 406 Supplement, Cette sommc sera prelevde sur Ic credit alloiie au budget du departement de rinterieur, pour I'encouragement des sciences et des lettres. La commission rendra compte de son emploi, chaque aimee, a notre mi- nistre de rinterieur. 4. Nous nous r^servons d'accorder aux membres de la commission telles distinctions et recompenses dont nous les aurons juges dignes. 5. Notre ministre de I'interieur est charg^ de I'ex^cution du present arrete, qui sera insure au Bulletin officicL Donne a Bmxelles, le 22 Juillet 1834. LEOPOLD, Par le Roi, Le minidre de Vintirieur., C. ROGIER. ( 407 ) Extraits des proces-verbaux des seances de la Commission Royale d'Histoire de la Belgique. [Referred to at page 241.] . o»« CllRONIQUES BeLGES INfeoiTS. — BULLETIN DES SeANCES DE LA COMMISSION RoYALE, TENUES LES 4 ET 16 AoUT, ET 27 OcTOBRE 1834. Seance du 4 Aout. (Au ministere de I'interieur.) M.' le ministre de I'interieur ne pouvant se rendre dans le sein de la com- mission, M."" le secretaire-general de son departement, delegue a cet eflfet, declare au nom du Roi qu'elle est installce. On procede immediatement a la formation du bureau. M.' de Gerlache est choisi pour president, M.»- le baron de Reiffenberg pour secretaire, et M."" Gachard pour tresorier. Conformement a I'art. 2 de I'arrete royal du 22 Juillet, la commission s'occupe du plan de ses futurs travaux. EUe decide qu'elle commencera par mettre au jour les documens inedits qui suivent, et dont la plupart entraient dans le plan du comte de Cobentzl et de I'eveque d'Anvers de Nelis : l.o Les Acta sanctorum Belgii, ou les vies des saints de la Belgique, qui doivent completer la collection de Ghesquilre ; 2.0 L'histoire du Brabant, d'Edmond de Dinter, en latin (xv.me si^cle) ; 3.0 L'histoire diplomatique de la meme province, par van der Heyden (Pierre), dit a Thymo, en latin, flamand et franvais (xv.^^e siecle). On y joindra quelques chroniques de peu d'etendue et celle de Philippe Mouskes ; 4.« La clironique flamande de van Heelu (Jean), ou se trouve decrite la bataille de Woeringen, a laquelle il assista en 1288 (xiii.'"^ siecle). Cette narration metrique sera accompagnde d'un grand nombre de diplomes et pieces justificatives ; 5.° La chronique flamande de de Klerck (Nicolas), connue sous le titre de Brahandsche-Jesten (xv.™*^ siecle) ; 6.0 Un corps de chroniques latines de Flandre, disposdes de maniere k faire voir en quelque sorte leur liaison et leur genealogie, et qui comprendra : (a) La chronique connue sous le titre de Vlandria generosay avec ses con- tinuations; (b) les trois chroniques de S.t Bavon, precedees des annales de ee monastere ; (c) les fragmens de la chronique de S.^ PieiTe a Gand ; (rf) le lii 408 Supplement. Supplement, 409 Monac/nis Ganiknsis, inipriniL a Hainbourg, dans un programme acadc- mique qu'on ne rencontre plus dans le commerce ; (c) cnfin la clironique d'Anchin, si on pent la rccouvrcr ; 7.« La clironique liegeoisc, en prose, de d'Outrcmeusc (xiv."'*' silcle); 8.° Lcs antiquites de la Flandre, de Philippe Wielant, en franyais (xv.n'« siccle) ; 9.« La relation fran^ aise du voyage dc Philippe-le-Beau en Espagne en 1501 (xvi.™«) silcle); lO.o Le rccit des troubles de Gand, sous Charles-Quint, par un tcmoin oculiure, en fran^ais (xvi.'"*^^ siccle). Tels sont les documcns dont I'imprcssion a etc arrctce d'abord, ct qui scront suivis de ceux qu'uue recherche active pourra fairc dccouvrir dans le pays ou a Tetranger. La publication des n."" 1 ct 2 (environ 5 volumes) sera soigiicc par M/ I'abbc de Ram ; — du n.o 3 (7 volumes), par Mj de Reiffenbcrg ; — des n.o" 4 et 5 (3 volumes), par M .«• Willcms ; — du n.« 6 (1 volume), par M.»" Warnkann'g; — du n.o 7(1 volume), par Mj dc Gerlache ; — du n.o 8 (1 volume), par Mj Dewcz ; — des n.*"* 9 et 10 ( 1 volume), par Mj Gachard. Le fonnat adoptc est I'in-quarto, plus facile a manier que I'in-folio, plus commode que I'in-S." pour la disposition des notes et commcntaires, et, d'ailleurs, plus convcnable pour les grands recueils scientifiqucs et littcraires. La commission discute ensuite les moyens matcricls dc publication. Un rapport sera presente a ce sujet a M."^ le ministrc de I'intcrieur, et Ton y admettra le principe dc I'adjudication publique. Passant de ces details materiels u I'execution litteraire, la commission se pose cette question : En quelle langue rtdigera-t-on les discours prcUminaires ct les notes dont seront accornpagncs les textes originaux ? Plusieurs membres, dans I'intcret de la popularite de Tentreprise, desi* raient qu'on employat exclusivcment la langue fran^aise. Mais d'autres ont r^pondu : Que des notes en fran^ais sur un texte flamand ou latin formeraient unc marqueterie desagr^able ; Que la chose serait contrairc a I'usage gcneralcment observe, mcme en France ; Que les notes philologiques surtout gagnent fi etre dcrites dans la langue des textes ; Que, quant a la popularite, il nefautpas s'exagdrer celle d'un travail dYru- dition ; que ceux qui populariseront r^^ellement I'histoire du pays, seront les homnies de talent et d'imagination qiu mettront en ceuvre les materiaux que la commission est chargee de leur preparer ; qu'il serait impossible de donner des traductions de textes souvent barbares ou d'unc naivete trop crue ; que, d'autrc part, ces traductions doubleraient Tentrcprise, et qu'enfm lcs per- sonnes curieuscs de consulter ces vieux monumens, sont cens(^'es les com- prendrc. La commission, aprfes avoir balance les raisons pour et centre, an-ete : Qu'on donnera les textes sans traduction ct les notes dans la langue des textes ; mais que, pour rendre I'usage de ces chroniques plus facile, surtout aux etrangers, on les fera precdder de longues et substantielles introductions, ct de tables analytiques en fran9ais, ou tous les faits et particularites essen- tiels seront rdunis, et les passages les plus marquans traduits, s'il est ndces- saire. Les introductions contiendront, en outre, des notions litteraircs sur les auteurs, avec le compte-rendu des recherches dont ils auront etc I'objet. Les notes, mises au has des pages et redigc Archbisliop of York, " for which a receipt was by him given to Mr. Ecton, late Deputy Remembrancer of the First Fruits and Tenths, dated the 1 1 th of February 1 724 ; but the roll has not yet been returned to the Office." But by a comparison of the exact catalogue of the books and rolls of the SuiTcy, preserved in the Office in 1 806, and then laid before the Commissionei-s on the Public Records, it appears that the book of Survey for part of the diocese of Exeter has been recovered, being therein described as " Devon, county, original signed by the Bishop, Mayor of Exeter, and five otliers ;" and another SuiTcy, being a roll thus described, " Salop, county, original but not authenticated, t\vo instruments for the bishoprics, viz. Co- ventry and Litchfield, and Hereford, is contained in the same list, which was not reported in 1732, and seems to have been restored since that time.* Both Houses of Parliament have, as it is already shown, at sundry times interposed authority for the disposal of public documents. For the most part these have been Papers of State. The recovery of embezzled documents en- gaged much attention on the part of the government, after the restoration of Charles II. ; and the House of Commons, in 1600, displayed a laudable acti- vity in securing the Surveys of Ecclesiastical Estates, and the evidences re- lating to the same, which remained in the Office of the Commissioners ap- pointed in 1649 for the sale thereof. All these documents were, by an order of the House made on the 13th of May 1662, transferred unto the Arch- bishop of Canterbury, who was " desired to take care for the preservation thereof, and to dispose of the same to the respective Bishops, Deans and Chapters, therein concerned, if he should think iit." They were accordingly deposited at Lambeth Palace, and some were sent by Abp. Juxon to the Bishops and Cathedrals ; but twenty- one folio volumes yet remain in the archive of the Palace, relating to various dioceses, and three others relating to the archbishopric of Canterbury.f Information having been given by Garter Anstis, in 1719, to the Lords' Committee, of certain records at the Pell Oflice in the Exchequer, supposed not to belong to that Office, but to have been brought thither from White- hall on occasion of afire in the time of James I., and to be very valuable ; the same were called for and sealed up by the Committee, and given into the custody of Incledon, their Lordships' Housekeeper. Anstis had already drawn up an account of their contents; and it was proposed that he should be authorized to methodize and calendar them, and that a room in St. Paul's Cathedral should be their place of deposit : but it is probable that the ex- pense of fitting up the same, estimated at 708/.,J prevented the design from being carried into eflfect. Nevertheless, Anstis obtained possession of them, Supplement, 425 and gave intelligence to the Commons' Committee in 1732, that they were then in his custody.* " After his death, about the year 1755,f they were seized at his late residence at Mortlake, by an order from the Secretarv of State, and placed in the custody of Mr. Camngton, one of the King's mes- sengers; where they remained until the year 1770: when, on the represen- tation of Mr. Astle and Mr. Topham to the Committee of the House of Peers for printing the Rolls of Pariiament, &c. they were, by his Majesty's com- mand, deposited in" the State Paper - Office, where they now remain These records chiefly relate to the revenues of the kingdom, and payments at the Exchequer by virtue of writs of Privy Seal, Signs Manual, and Sia„ct Warrants, Acts of Council, &c. for salaries, pensions, services in war, "and other payments, Grants of Offices, &c. in various reigns, from King Henry III. to King William III."+ From this account of them, writtcirby Mr. Topham and the two Astles, Commissioners for methodizing and digesting the State Papers in 1800, it appears evident that the traditional account of them, given to the Lords' Committee by Mr. Sadler, their Deputy Clerk of the Pells, which caused their removal from his Office, was wrong, and that they certainly formed, and ought still to form, part of the records of the Pells in the Exchequer. They are now in the State Paper Office; but they were not arranged or calendared until afler the recommendation of the Select Committee for that purpose, and the directions given by the Commissioners on the Public Records in 1800; who, in 1819, reported the nature and clas- sification of them, and that proper calendars had been made of the same.§ In the return made by the Clerk of the Journals and Papers of the House of Commons, to the Select Committee in 1800, it is stated that there was a great number of old books and papers in a room over the House, which related to the proceedings of Commissioners on Public Accounts appointed in the year 1702. These had been removed from old buildings that were pulled down; and other documents, being the records of a like Commission from 1780 to 1787, were, in a large chest, committed to the custody of the Clerk of the House, by an order of the 10th of March I788.(( The same Committee having obtained possession of certain records of At- tainder, recommended in the Report that the same should be placed in the Baga de Secretis of the Court of King's Bench. Accordingly the Coinmis- ♦ Reports, 1819, I. 151, 152. t Reports, 1800, p. 388. Todd's " Account of the Records," ift ihe Catalogue of the MSS. at Lambeth Palace, (1812, fol.) p. 268-9. t Lords' Report, 1719, pp. 17—22. • Report of 1732, (ed. 1803,) p. 446. t AylofTe says, " In November 1755, twenty two bags of records, papers and other writings, belonging to his Majesty, being found concealed in the house of the then late John Anstis, Esq., Gaiter King at Arms, at Mortlake in Surrey, were seized and brought from thence, as being the properly of the Crown." (Introduc- tion, p. xlv.) t Reports, 1800, p. 68. $ Ibid. pp. 12, 68. Reports, 1819, pp. 19,21, &c. and particularly pp.328. 357,364-5. II Reports, 1800, p. 67. 426 Suppkment. sioners on tlie Public Records, at their first meeting, directed that the records of Attainder, &c. then in the custody of the Clerk to that Committee, should be forthwith removed into the Baga de SccrctiSj and deposited there in the pre- sence of the Attorney General, that their own Secretary should obtuin the keys* for that purpose, and that a schedule of the books, records and papers contained in the Baga should be made, whereof one copy should be kept with the said records, and the ^her should be delivered, under seal, to the King's Coroner at the Crown Office of the Court of King's Bench. All which was accordingly done before March ISOS.f Such are the principal transfers of the public records of England, which can be recounted without great research. These instances are sufficient to show that the authority of the Court or principal Officer of the Department to which any records belong, is always needful to make even an ordinary transfer legal ; and that in extraordinary cases the King's command, signi- fied by writ under the great seal, or an order of one or both of the Houses of Parliament, is absolutely requisite. It is easy to distinguish which of these instances may be depended on as sound precedents for future transactions of this kind ; and above all it appears most reasonable that, in all such changes as are brought about by the operation of legislative measures, the concurrence of the three branches of the legislature ought to be obtained for the transfer of records that may be left without a keeper, and perhaps without a lodging place for their preservation. The mischiefs which have ensued in modern times, for want of such precaution, on the pulling down of old buildings, or the abolition of antient offices, are great beyond description, and frightful to contemplate. Scotland, on the other hand, possesses at last for its records, after ages of waste and decay, a system of regular transmission and concentration. Its in- dependent government is no more ; and the records which are now formed in that antient kingdom relate chiefly to private rights, and are perfectly uni- form in their plan ; all therefore can go on with safety, regularity, and preci- sion. The outhnes and the details of that system are fully explained, with its practical operation, in the reports furnished to the Select Committee in 1800, and since to the Commissioners in the periodical reports of the Deputy Clerk Register. But it is desirable here to add some facts relative to the transfer of certain portions of the national records of "Scotland, and to the recovery or acquisition of antient historical documents for the enriching of the public archives at Edinburgh, because these facts are materially connected with the history of the records of the superior kingdom of England. In order to the due adjudication of the crown of Scotland among the com- petitors, on the death of Queen Margaret in 1290, Edward I. obtained full possession of the kingdom, and exercised all acts of sovereignty therein, from Supplement, 4Z7 the 6th of June 1291 to the 17th of November 1292, when the crown was adjudged to John Balliol. In the mean time, for the purposes both of the proceedings before that extraordinary tribunal at Norham, and of tlie carrying on of the government of Scotland, the royal records, muniments and treasures were taken into Edward's possession. By letters patent under his great seal, dated at Berwick, on the 12th of August 1291, Ralph Abbat of Dunfermlyn, Adam Abbat of the Holy Rood of Edinburgh, John de Lithe- greynes, Miister William de Lincoln, and Thomas de Fisheburn, were assigned " to investigate, search, see, and examine the charters, instruments, writings, papal letters, compositions, rolls and inrolmcnts, and all other muniments in any manner touching the right of the suitors in the kingdom of Scotland," and the King and his kingdom, being in the castle of Edinburgh or elsewhere in Scotland, and to take the same and deposit them in the place thereto assigned by the King : command was also given thereby, to the Bishop of St. Andrews, to Ralph Basset of Drayton, Constable of the castle of Edin- burgh, and to William de Dunfres, " Keeper of the Rolls of the kingdom of Scotland," to deliver up to them the keys of the treasury in the castle, and of the chests and boxes containing the said records .♦ Those Com- missioners accordingly made an inventory of tlic writhigs of state, the inrol- mcnts in capcllu domini regis, including " one roll of titles of all the charters, which William do Dunfres caused to be made," and the treasures of gold and silver plate, &c., all which were found in a chest in the dormitory of the Holy Rood, and sealed up by them, also of the robes and ecclesiastical ornaments found in the treasury of the castle : which inventory was sealed by them at Edinburgh, on the eve of St. Bartholomew, (23 Aug.) 1291, and the records were on the same day (as it seems) deposited at Berwick.f These and other records, it has been repeatedly alleged by Scottish writers,^ were altogether taken away by Edward I., and never restored : but the contrary appears to be the case. They were lodged for temporary purposes at Ber- wick, which town was then within the kingdom of Scotland ; and, on the set- tlement of the crown of that kingdom, they were duly restored to the proper authorities. This appears by an inventory of rolls, contained in two coffers, which had been carried by Ralph Basset, Warden of the castle of Edinburgh, f • Reports, 1800, p. 112. t Reports, 1819, pp. 18, 21, 23, 25. * Rotuli Scotitc, I. 3. t Printed in Ayloffe's Calendars of the Antient Charters, &c. pp. 327—330. In the Rotuli Scolitc (I. 4) there is a writ for the payment of their expenses, dated at Alnwick, 17 August. Bishop Nicolson has quoted from one of Balfour's MSS. the document above mentioned, as a list of records carried off by Edward's order, and added what he considered as a subscription to it, pretending that it was sealed by both Edward and John de Balliol, at Newcastle, 30 Dec. 1292: but it is obvious that the subscription must belong to another document, the beginning of which has been confounded with the end of the inventory. (Scottish Ilist. Libr. p. 91.) t Whose allegations are the foundation of Bishop Nicolson's unjustifiable stric- tures in his Scottish Historical Library, chap. vii. (ed. 1736), pp. 90, 91. 428 Supplement, from that castle to the castle of Roxburgh, by command of the Bishops of Bath, Durham, and Ely, William dc Langston, Keeper of the Wardrobe, and Wil- liam de Karletone, a Baron of the Exchequer, who had sat as a court to hear the accounts of the public accountants of Scotland, at the castles of Roxburgh and Berwick, in the year 1292. Which records, " as fidly and wholly as they had been received by the said Auditors," were, under their seals, de- livered to Alexander BaJKol, Chamberlain of Scotland, by King Edward's command, by the hands of the said Langston and Karletone, and John de Drokensford, for the me of John de BalUol, King of Scotland.* Also by a writ, dated at Newcastle, on the -Ith of January 1293, Edward commanded the Bishops of St. Andrew's and Glasgow, and John Comyn, James the Steward of Scotland, and Brian Fitz Alan, late Wardens of the kingdom of Scotland, to deliver to King John " all the rolls of pleas and suits, holden and pleaded before them," from the time when they were first appointed thereto.f In addition to these facts, it may be urged that " the office of Keeper of the Rolls of the chapel royal of Scotland" was not abolished by Edward; but, on the promotion to the Chancellorship of William dc Dun- fresjt who had holden that office, it was granted to John de Keth, " with the rolls of the chapel royal, to be kept in the same manner as W. de Dunfres lately had that office and kept the rolls :" the patent was dated on the 14th of June 1292 ; and a payment of money was afterward made for his services. § From the existence at Westminster of an inventory of muniments in the treasury of Edinburgh, taken by the command of King Alexander III. by Masters Thomas de Carnoto, Ralph de Bosco, and the said William de Dunfres, on the 29th of September 1282, it has been supposed that the records therein enumerated were brought away by Edward I. They con- sisted of bulls, of leagues and documents of state relating to England, Flanders, and Norway, and of charters of Scotland surrendered to the King. These, and many others not specified, were sealed up by those persons ; and notice was added, by the last of them, that a bull had been deposited at Melrose by Simon Eraser, and that another bull belonging to the King was in the custody ♦ Printed in Ayloffe, pp. 332—336. The Lords of the Exchequer of Scotland were called " Lords Auditors," and this is probably the earliest instance of the term. See Reports, 1800, p. 414. Their Commission to hear the accounts was dated 16 Sept. 1292. (Rotuli Scoti (') Mr. Thomson's order, as Sub-Commissioner of Records for Scotland, for the delivery of the same into the General Repository, dated 12 Nov. 1811 ; and (6) his receipt as Deputy Clerk Register for the same. (Reports, 1819, 1. 293—6.) F F 1 494 Supplement, been restored to the General Register House, and the other (some time in the Lyon OflSce) was in private hands. Proceeding to state that the Select Committee having recommended the junction of these series with the 36 vo- lumes already in the custody of the Lord Clerk Register, the Commissioners had fill! power to accomplish that purpose ; he adds, " In pursuance of the direction of the Board on ihat head, I accordingly adckessed an order to the Clerks of Justiciary, authorizing and directing them to deliver into the General Repository in his Majesty's General Register House, upon receipt, the several Books and Registers, as also all the Original Warrants and Papers of the Privy Council of Scotland in their custody, together with an inventory of the books and registers. This order was forthwith obeyed ; and, from the delivery made by the Clerks of Justiciary, to me as Deputy Clerk Register, it appears that, besides the forty-six books mentioned in the inventory of 1787, there had been preserved several other volumes of Privy Council Re- cords, and a considerable mass of Warrants and Original Papers, from the Restoration 1660 to the Union 1707."* In the same first annual Report, two transfers are stated to have been effected by means of petitions addressed, in the name of the Lord Clerk Register, to the Court of Session ; in consequence of which the Books of Sederunt, and the General Minute Books of that Court, were deposited in the General Register House, by an order of the Court directing also the transmission of every successive volume when completed.f Like success at- tended application to the same Court and to the Commissioners of Teinds, for the transfer and successive transmission of the records of Tailzies and Inven- tories, and of Teinds respectively.^ But a different reception was given, by the Court of Exchequer, to a petition requesting the transfer of the records of the Old Court from 1659 to the Union, still remaining in the custody of the clerks and officers, while the earlier part of the series was in the custody of the Lord Clerk Register : those records, though not properly belongmg to the modem Court, were refused to be given up.§ The Select Committee in 1800 declared it "obviously proper that the Proceedings upon Special Commissions for the trial of high treason in Scot- land, and all other records now lodged in his Majesty's offices of record in England, which exclusively regard the internal policy and laws of that part of the United Kingdom, should be transferred to the General Register House of Edinburgh." This had reference chiefly to the commission of oyer and ter- miner in 1794, the proceedings whereon *< were carried off by Mr. Knapp, who came down from London as Clerk to that Court."|| The Commissioners therefore, on the 19th of December 1800, ordered that the said proceedings should be transferred thither from the Crown Office of the King's Bench : but • Reports, 1819, 1. 283-4. See also pp. 53, 227. 246, and 266. t Ibid. p. 227. X Ibid. pp. 227, 234, 245-6. $ Ibid. pp. 6, 49, 52, 218, 221, 227, 232. || Reports, IBOO^pp. 18, 410. Supplement* 435 that order had not been obeyed in 1812,* and no farther notice appears in the subsequent publications of the Board. The last transfer of records in Scotland which appears in the printed Re- ports, is that of the Registers of Deeds and Probative writings, formerly kept by the Clerks of the Commissary Court of Edinburgh. By the Act of Par- liament " For better regulating the Public Records of Scotland," (49 Geo. III. c. 42,) it was provided that these records should be deposited in the General Register House within six months from the passing thereof; but, by reason of arrear in the formation of those registers, they were not brought in till 1812, wiien 59 large volumes, beginning in 160G and ending in November 1809, were transferred thither, together with the " minute-books and warrants," and " an exact inventory, to the accuracy of which the Clerks made oath agreeably to the provisions of the Statute."! To the recovery of lost or strayed records the attention of the authorities in Scotland has been diligently directed in the present century. The following instances in which deficiencies have been supplied, are mentioned in the Re- ports of the present Archivist. In the year 1811 were bought at the sale of Mr. George Paton, (1) " a Register of charters, leases, and other grants by the Cistercian Monastery of Cupar in Angus, from the year 1539 till the dissolution of the house at the Reformation," which is a second volume to a register of the same Abbey, from 1443 to 1538, preserved in the public archives from time immemorial ; and (2) " a book of Accounts of the Lord Treasurer of Scotland, for the year 1620, by the recovery of which one of the imperfec- tions in the existing series of these interesting documents is supplied." J In 1814 a Register of Seisins for the district of Dumfries and Kirkudbright, from December 1656 to 31 Aug. 1660, which helps to fill up a considerable defect in the series of those local records, was presented to the public archive, by Mr. Commelin of Dumfries ; and in the same year several records and state papers were given by Mr. Harry Davidson. These are — (1) a volume of original docu- ments relative to the public negociations between the Courts of Scotland and France, from 1511 to 1517, including the instructions to the French Ambas- sadors, signed by Louis XII. and Francis I. ; (2) transcripts of royal letters of James IV. and V., already published, and of unpublished lettei-s and documents of the reign of James VI. ; (3) Register of grants of Jedburgh Abbey, from 1534 to 1596; (4) Responde Book of Chancery, from December 1545 to August 1561; (5) the second volume of protocols of Alexander Lawson, a notary public, containing instruments chiefly relating to property in the county of Edinburgh, from 1590 to 1602; and (6) Taxt Roll of lands formerly be- longing to the Monastery of Kelso, for the year 1621, "a species of record of considerable value, a few of which are still preserved in the General Re- gister House, and of which a considerable number have found their way into the Harleian Library." § In 1815 one volume of the records of the Com- ♦ Reports, 1819, pp. 19,60. X Ibid. pp. 282—3. flbid. pp.245, 521. $ Ibid. p. 532. ff2 436 Suppfemeni, missary Court before mentioned, belonging to tbe years 1587 and 1588, was restored by Mr. Sharpe of Hoddam, in wbose family it bad been for many years; and, in tbe same year, tbe acquisition of a valuable MS. of tbe antient Laws of Scotland, written in tbe tbirteentb century, was announced. It was kept in tbe public Hilary of tbe canton of Berne in Switzerland, for wbicb it is said to bave heen bougbt in England by a Swiss agent at tbe court of Oliver Cromwell. Having been described in tbe catalogue of tbat library, it was first noticed by Ritson, wbo in 1 799 brougbt it under tbe at- tention of Mr. George Chalmers. Tbe latter, in 1802, obtained tbe means of borrowing and transcribing it, and restored it ; but, some years after, it ap- pearing extremely desirable to obtain tbe volume for public use in Scotland, Mr. Chalmers laid a statement before tbe Lord Clerk Register concerning its contents and importance, " wbicb was immediately communicated to bis Majesty's Record Commissioners, and wbicb induced tbe Board to adopt tbe most effectual measures for obtaining possession of it. In consequence of a communication upon the subject, by tbe government of this country to tbe government of tbe canton of Berne, the Directors of tbe Public Library were pleased to make a most liberal and unqualified donation of tbe manu- script, wbicb was deposited by the Lord Clerk Register in the public archives under his superintendence.* In tbe following year the Earl of Haddington restored to tbe general repository several records, which had been in the pos- session of his family from the time of bis ancestor the first of that title, who was Lord Clerk Register in tbe reign of James VI., and was a diligent pe- ruser of records. By Mr. Thomson's report of them it appears that those volumes consist of— (1) Statutes and ordinances of tbe reigns of Robert II. and Robert III., of which be says, " I am not aware that any other copy exists, and which in themselves are highly interesting ; " (2, 3) Consistorial Proceedings in the Courts of the officials of St. Andrew's and of Lothian, be- fore tbe Reformation, " a class of records of which it was not before known tbat any part had been preserved," and of peculiar value ; (4) an abstract of the Rental of property annexed to the Crown, apparently of the reign of James V.; (5) part of a Treasurer's Account for the year 1555; (6, 7, 8) Protocols of Public Notaries, about the end of the sixteenth century ; (9) Court Book of tbe regality of Melrose, from 1505 to 1609; and (10) tbe Taxt Roll of Melrose Abbey for 1665. Besides these records, other books were communicated by tbe same nobleman, among which were " a transcript of letters and public papers, of the years 1554 and 1555 ; a volume of calen- dars and abstracts, chiefly of tbe Rolls of Public Accounts, and of the Rental Books, and of the royal property, framed by Sir John Skene, Clerk Register in 1595 ; and above all, in point of curiosity, an abstract of a Roll of Public Ac- counts, in the reign of Alexander III., for the years 1262—1266, and of another Roll for the years 1289—1290, of wbicb the originals bave been lost since tbe *• Reports, 1819, pp. 535; 333, and 535-6. Supplement, 437 time of Skene,* in wbose calendar (just mentioned) they are both particularly specified." t Probably the last additions of this kind to the public treasure have been tbe original Charters of the Abbey of Melrose, in fine preservation, comprehendnig many royal charters from David I. to James V.; and a col- lection of Charters from the archives of the Earldom of Morton, including many that relate to the family of Douglas, and said to be of great historical nnportance. These have been bought, in latter years, by the Lord Clerk Register, and by his authority deposited in the General Register House. J The laudable example set by Scotland might well be followed in England, if it were possible : for utterly vain would be the attempt to unite and com- plete the broken series of records which are scattered in various offices, until a common receptacle be provided for them, and a competent officer appointed to direct the movements. The transfer of such records as are improperly placed, to repositories with the contents of which they assimilate better, was recom- mended by Mr. Lawton of the Chapter House, in 1732; who also proposed that, on the removal of any public records from one office to another, the Officers receiving them should "give public notice in the Gazette of such alteration of custody." § The Select Committee of that year evidently be- stowed some attention on this subject, and the advantages or disadvantages of such transfers, under the present system, were carefully weighed by the Select Committee of 1800; but few such measures were recommended as were suggested with regard to some principal offices, it being the conviction of that Committee that " No general transfer of the records of these several repositories from their present local situations could be desirable, unless it were for the purpose of establishing a General Repository," on the plan of that at Edinburgh. || Even if such a building were erected, it would be dan- gerous to make any change of custody without the highest and best authority, or any removal whatsoever without vigilant superintendence and responsi- bility. The folly of modem times may be well contrasted with the wisdom of times past, when not even a temporary removal of documents for the use of the King's Courts, ^ or for other purposes of state, was permitted without a writ for the authority, and evidences of the fact. One more instance may be added : — for the prosecution of the King's affairs in the court of France, the Treasurer and Chamberlains of the Exchequer were commanded, by a writ dated at Wallingford, on the 22d of April, 3 Edward I. (1275), to deliver to • It is clear therefore that the destruction of those early records caanot be justly attributed to the conduct or policy of Edward I. No doubt they perished ia the voyage of 1661. t Reports, 1319, pp. 540—1. X Cooper on the Public Records, II. 231 $ Report of 1732, (ed, 1803), I. 525. II Reports, 1800, p. 13.' ^ See various instances in the Proposal for a General Record Office, pp. 82— 3» 86—88, 90—93. 438 Supplement* ( 439 ) the King's Clerks all the charters, rolls, and other documents in their custody, and in that of the Keeper of the Privy Seal, and other of the King's ministers in London or elsewhere ; who likewise were to deliver up the same ty inden- ture to the Treasurer and Chamherlains for that purpose.* Many such evidences of transfer and/deposit exist, or ought to exist, in the principal repositories, affording instructive and salutary lessons to succeeding ages, and admonitions to their keepers, of the value which they ought to set on treasures formerly guarded with such jealous care. W. H. B. • Fcedtra, New Edition, I. 521. A schedule indented between Sir Robert Cecil, Secretary of State, and the Lord Treasurer Buckhurst, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, concerning the delivery of leagues, bonds, and other documents relating to foreign negociations, to Skynoer and Agard, Officers of the Receipt, to be laid up in the Treasury at Westminster, in 1603, is printed in the Fadera, XVT. 497—9. XXIV. Statement respecting the Classes of Records jiveserved in the Augmen- tation Office, and the changes that have been made in the Arrange- ment thereof, [Referred to at page 257.] The principal classes of records contained in the Office of the abolished Court of Augmentations of the Revenues of the Crown, are already well ex- plained by the returns laid before the Select Committees of 1732 and 1800, by the Keepers of the record at those times respectively. Their extreme usefulness to the public hath always caused a necessity for their arrangement and accessibility to a certain extent; and, as the Keeper's sole emoluments have been derived from fees from searches and extracts or copies, it has been of the first importance for him to mamtain and preserve good order among the principal classes. * But the vast multitude of documents, the variety of their ages, sizes, and kinds, the small space into which they w^ere crowded, were such, that perfect arrangement, and the work of indexing and calendar- ing with minute exactness, were necessarily unaccomplished, and almost un- attempted, until the Government afforded that assistance whereby certain Calendars were framed, shortly before the late Mr. Caley was appointed to the charge of the Office, in 1786. After the estabHshment of the Record Board, the process of cleansing and mending, and of assorting the confused part of these records, was undertaken with great vigor, and has gone on to the pre- sent time ; so that, when that gentleman died in 1833, a very small portion of that work remained to be done. After that event Mr. Cole was appointed to continue the superintendence formerly conducted by Mr. Caley ; there he continued about two years, occupied chiefly upon the King's Remembrancer's Miscellaneous Records, which were undergoing repair at the Augmentation Office. In the mean while, on the 16th of October 1834, happened the cala- mitous burning of the Houses of Parliament and many of the adjacent build- ings ; and on that occasion it was found needfid, for the preservation of the records of the Augmentation Office, which were exposed to extreme peril of destruction, to remove them in haste to Saint Margaret's Church. When re- stored, after a day or two, to their fonner lodging, they were in great confu- sion. Boxes, chests, sacks, and other receptacles that were moveable, had • " The most useful records of this Office are in tolerable order, but there are many others which were never yet digested and methodized." Lords' Committeei Report, 1719, p, 56. 440 Supplement, preserved the greater part in tbeir proper order ; and these receptacles only needed mechanical arrangement : but such as had been in presses, and were thrown into confiision by removal, were forced to undergo individual arrange- ment, after such of them had been cleansed and repaired which needed it. All this was accordingly dopfe : but the work was comparatively light, as they had been ascertained, aiTanged, and ticketed before. But it has been stated by Mr. Cole that the whole Office has been entirely re-arranged since the Fire ; and his expressions have been such as to cause a belief that a new system of arrangement has been created and effected there. In so short a time as the few months which he remained there after the Fu^, such a work was impossible. It is true that order is restored. Such records as before that event were well arranged, are put in order again, more or less as they were before ; and some remain yet unan-anged, which were in pro- gress of arrangement at that time. The following statement, digested under the heads of the principal classes, is designed to show what difference exists between their former and their present state, and to point out exactly the im- provement or mischief which has been effected by those changes. Ministers' Accounts. The rolls of yearly accounts rendered by the receivers of the revenues of the Crown, arising from lands acquired by the surrender of monasteries, colleges, chantries, &c., or by forfeiture, purchase, or exchanges, form a most exten- sive class of the records of this office. Before the Fire they lay on the shelves of presses, arranged in counties, and easily accessible, though not all provided with tickets. The principal series of them was contained in the first and fifth rooms : in the former was placed the first part of an alphabetical arrange- ment of the counties, from "Bedford " to " Durham ;" and in the latter were ranked the other coimties, from " Essex " to " Yorkshire." Since the Fire these records, which then sustained great damage, have had (for the most part) new tickets ; and been reduced to the same order of arrangement as before : but they are placed in boxes opening by a falling front, which bears an inscrip- tion denoting the county and the first monastery named in the rolls which the box contains. This method has been adopted for the prevention of disorder and loss in case of any future accident from fire : on the former calamitous occasion, they were removed from the presses in the greatest confusion ; while such records as were in boxes or sacks were carried away safely and easily. These boxes are placed m the first, second, and fifth rooms. Beside the principal series relating to Monastic LandSy belonging to the reigns of Henry VIII., Edward VI., Mary, and Philip and Mary, there are other series of Ministers' Accounts kept separately, viz. — Ministers' Accounts of Monasteries in Lincolnshire, formerly contained in a press in the fifth room, are now in a press in the second room, arranged in the same order. Ministers* Accounts of Welsh Monasteries. These records, for the reign of Henry VIII., were tied up in yearly bundles, and kept in the fifth room ; Supplement, 441 but they are now in boxes, with the name of the monasteries pamted thereon, in the fifth room. Those of the reigns of Edward and Mary were formerly contained in a press in the first room, but are now mixed with those of their father's reign. Ministers* Accounts of Preceptories. These occupied one shelf in the fifth room ; but are now in a box, inscribed with the names of the counties, in the second room. Tickets have been added to some of them. Ministers* Accounts of Honors. These occupied the lowest shelf of a press in the fifth room ; but are now placed in two boxes in the second room, without any other alteration than the addition of tickets to some of them. Ministers* Accounts of Woods, ^c. These rolls of accounts, from general and particular receivers for woods, parks, chases, &c., formerly occupied two shelves in the third room, but now are contained in one box in the second room. Ministers* Accounts of Lands acquired bj/ Purchase or Exchange, were arranged in reigns, and tied up in bundles, occupying two shelves in the third room. They are now arranged in counties, and placed in boxes, together with some of the — Ministers* Accounts of Lands of Persons Attainted. These are of divers lei^^s, and were aiTanged in bundles ticketed with the names, (as " Bucking- ham," "Lumley," "Constable," &c.) in a press in the third room; and they were referred to by means of an Index in the Office. They are now arranged, in the same manner, in boxes : but some have been removed to the foregoing class ; and others, which were found among the miscellaneous re- cords, or in bags of accounts of private estates, have been mingled with these rolls. The series of accounts for the lands of Attainted Monasteries is now incor- porated with the principal series, in the order of counties, as Reading in " Berkshire," &c. Auditors' Accounts. A very large quantity of records, removed some years ago into this repo- sitory from the Auditors' Office, formerly occupied the second room, distinctly from the other classes of records. They were indeed a continuation of the Ministers* Accounts belonging to the Court of Augmentations, and were for the reigns of Elizabeth, James I., and Charles I. Some few were of the latter part of the reign of Philip and Mary. They were therefore kept sepa- rately before the Fire : but they are now mingled with the older rolls of accounts, in one series of counties. Court Rolls of Manors. The Court Rolls occupied a press in the third room, wherein they were placed in bundles of twenty or thirty, according to their size. The bundles were marked with letters, from A. to HHH., and the rolls are marked 442 Supplement, with the letter of the bundle, and their own number in the bundle. A Calendar to this class of records was framed, at the public expense, by Com- missioners appointed for that purpose, between 1763 and 1783, as it is stated in Mr. Caley's return to the Sdfect Committee in 1800 : the form of the Calen- dar is that of an alphabetiiJal index of the names of manors, showing the county, and the year of the roll ; and, by means of the letters and figures in the fourth column, ready reference might be made to any roll or rolls relating to a manor in question.* But the former arrangement is now disturbed, and the Calendar is ren- dered useless. * All the rolls are flattened and placed in portfolios. Such as relate to one place only, are in one alphabetical series ; and those which re- • Extracts from various parts of the Calendar of Court Rolls of Mauori, refer- ring to the rolls marked T. 3, Y. 3, and Ee. 9. Devoa 15 Jac. I. Cornwall 15 Jac. 1. Do. Do. Lydford Burgus. Liskeard Penlyne Rillaton Do. TiBten Do. Y. 3. Ayllnton, . Aylton . . . Okeborne . Purley . . . Shobjndon . Thrope . . . Wycombe . Wyngrave . Woxbridge Heref. Heref. < Wilts Surrey Herefordshire Ee. Clymesland prior *»* • Croftehole Burgus < , Eastway Ffoye Gredivroe Helston in Kerrier Landulpe > Milton Fawconbridge Penlyne ^« Sh^>poQ < Southend juxta Hampton Wick , Tewyngton < . . . • Ti«loye Bucks . . . . Bucks . . . . Middlesex 9. Cornwall.. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. D«. Do. Do. Berks Middlesex Do. Do. 36 Hen. 8. 37 Hen. 8. 37 Hen. 8. 36 Hen. 8. 37 Hen. 8. Do. Do. Do. Do. 14 Car. I. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. 15 Car. 1. 14 Car. 1. 15 Car. 1. 14 Car. 1* Supplement, 443 late to more than one place form another series, to which no reference what- ever can be made, except for the first manor named in the record, without searching through every roll. They are contained in ten or twelve large boxes, marked " Rotuli Curiarum in divers. Com." in the second and fiftli rooms. Antient Charters. The Carta Antigua were formerly kept in presses in the third and fourth rooms; but, before the time of the Fire, they were placed in about fifty boxes, bearing the old marks by which the documents were formerly known, and by which they are referred to in an Index or Calendar of them preserved in the Office. Those which were in the fourth room were tied up in small bundles, in cartridge paper; but those in the third room were a part of the series in the first alphabet, and consisted of such as related in considerable number to one place, and were therefore kept in old oaken or paper boxes. The Carta Sclecta fonn a small series, marked with letters (A to K) and figures. They were formerly kept in a drawer in the fourth room : but were placed in three small boxes before the accident of the Fire. The Carta Miscellanea were collected, in Mr. Caley's time, from all parts of the Office, chiefly out of sacks marked " Rubbish " or " Useless Papers." Such as had no seals were bound up in twenty-four volumes : but such as had seals were put into little boxes, and placed in drawers in the fourth room ; where they still remain in the same state. The charters called " Madox's Deeds," (most of them having been printed in his Formulare Anglicanum,) were in a box marked with his name. They were numbered from 1 to nearly 800, and were tied up by hundreds in cartridge paper. They are in the same state now ; except that they were put in small boxes, in drawers in the fourth room, before the accident of the Fire. Conventual Leases. These documents are of all dates prior to the dissolution of the monasteriesj and were orderly arranged. All those of one monastery were tacked together, and the whole lay in the order of the counties in which those houses were situate. All the leases of one county were numbered in a separate series of figures. They were formerly rolled up in bundles, placed alphabetically, by the counties, on the shelves of a press in the third room ; and they are now flat in portfolios filling five boxes, but in the same order of arrangement as before. The numbering has not been disturbed : therefore, by the Index in the Office, reference may be made to them as formerly. Surrenders of Monasteries. These are contained in three drawers in the foiuth room ; and have not undergone any change of condition. A Catalogue of them has been drawn up and printed by Mr. Cole ; which contains many absurdities, and omits the numbers by which reference is made to the deeds in the Office Calendar. 444 Supplement, Deeds of Purchase and Exchange. These documents are of the reigns of Henry VIII. and Edward VI., and are marked with letters (A to H) and with figures, to which reference is made by the Index in the Office. These were in old boxes, before the Fire : they are now tied in bundles often or twenty, and are placed in seven boxes in the fourth room ; but the arrangement is not disturbed. Particulars for Grants of Lands, &c. These documents run from the reign of Henry VIII. to that of Elizabeth ; under each reign they were sorted alphabetically, in the order of the names of the grantees, and tied up in bundles marked with the initial letters. Some whole bundles related but to a single surname. They were formerly on shelves in the third room ; but having been thrown into the greatest confu- sion at the Fire, they were sorted anew by Mr. Charles Gay, and are now laid flat in portfolios, which are placed in boxes. There are five boxes for the first reign, four for that of Edward VI., and one for the rest. Particulars for Leases.. These rolls, more than two hundred in number, are chiefly of the time of Elizabeth and James I. They were arranged by counties, and tied up in bundles, one or more to a county. Thus arranged, there are two principal divisions for " England " and « Wales," each of which is farther divided into " single counties " and " mixed counties." These rolls are now laid flat in portfolios, and occupy twelve boxes : but they are in the same order of ar- rangement as when they lay on shelves in the third room. Another series, chiefly for the reigns of James and Charles I., of Particulars of Leases in Reversion, was placed formerly on the top of a press in the third room. These are now in two boxes; and are increased by the addition of many which have been selected from the miscellaneous documents, but which are not yet arranged in due order. Privy-Seals, and Fiats for Leases, also Counterparts of Augmentations' Leases. These documents are parUy in bundles and partly loose ; but not in order. The Privy-Seals and Counterparts have been damped out, and are under re- pair. The Fiats were arranged by Mr. Gay, under Mr. Cole's du-ections; and were bound, in order of the counties, in fifteen volumes for ''England" and two for "Wales." Inrolments and Transcripts of Leases. The former were arranged chronologically, in bundles of ten or twenty rolls, or more: they were placed on shelves, by the side of the Particulars for Leases, in the third room. The latter are in volumes, marked with the years of Elizabeth and James I. to which they belong. They are all now placed Supplement, U5 in five boxes, in the second room ; and are still arranged in order of time, as before. Certificates of Colleges and Chantries. In a press in the fourth room were foniierly laid up tlicse rolls of the Com- missioners appointed to survey the dissolved Colleges, Chantries, &c. They were arranged by counties, and done up in rolls, which were numbered, for reference by means of the Index. Now they are nearly all laid flat in port- folios, according to their sizes ; and the portfolios are lettered with the coun- ties and numbers, and placed in a box. Some of them are not unrolled ; and the old references of all are preser^'ed. Schoolmasters' Roll. This roll, containing a record of the salaries allowed to Chaplains, School- masters, &c. was kept with the Inrolments of Leases in the third room. It is now flattened and put in boards. * Proceedings in the Court of Augmentations, &c. The Bills, Answers, Replications, Depositions, Rejoinders, &c. in this Court, and in that of the Surveyors General of Crown Lands, formerly occu- pied a press in the third room : but most part of the Depositions had been bound in volumes before the Fire happened. At that time several of the bundles of unbound documents became loose, and were mixed with other records : they are not yet arranged ; but they are placed in portfolios in two boxes. Bishops* Lands. The rolls of accounts of Bishops' Lands were formerly in a drawer in the fourth room. They are now in a box in the first room. Parliamentary Surveys op the Estates of Charles I., &c. These were arranged in counties alphabetically, and were in portfolios, standing at the bottom of two presses in the fourth room. They are still in the same order, to which the Index of the Office refers ; but are now placed in five boxes, marked with the counties respectively contained in them. The Office Catalogue of these Surveys of the Estates of Charles I., his Queen, and the Prince of Wales, has been printed by Mr. Cole. Particulars for Sales of the same. These rolls are done up in bundles of twenty or more marked with letters from A to Z, beside one Z Z, each document having also a number, by which reference is made by the old Office Index. They were formerly on shelves in the third room: but they now occupy seven boxes, in the same state of arrangement. 446 Supplement. Fee-Farm Rolls. These rolls are of two classes : — first, those which contain accounts of rents reserved to the Crown upon grants of monastic lands, and of which there is one loU for each county, except Yorkshire, which has four rolls : secondly, five rolls, containing accounts of rents arising from the antient possessions of the Crown, each of which rolls relates to divers counties. These rolls were for- merly kept on shelves in the fifth room : they are now flattened and laid in portfolios, in their former arrangement. The former class is placed in two boxes in the third room. Fee-Farm Deeds. The counterparts of Deeds of Sale of Fee-farm Rents were arranged in bundles, and marked with letters and figures ; each bundle bearing a letter. They lay on shelves in the third room ; but are now in nine boxes. Their arrangement, however, is the same, agreeing with the Index in the OflSce ; and for the sake of better reference the tickets have been renewed, and a list of the contents has been attached to each box, by Mr. Gay. Concealments. The rolls of Concealments were kept in one of the presses containing the Ministers' Accounts for Yorkshire, in the fifth room : they are now placed in a box in the third room, but are not yet arranged. Inventories of Church Goods. There are two sacks of Inventories of the goods and moveables of Churches, which Mr. Caley designed to bind up in volumes. He began that operation. Mr. Cole has bound one volume, and put the others into a portfolio. They have no index. Topographica. The mass of miscellaneous records, which has been for many years imder process of cleansing and repair, exceeds the number of 1 7,000 rolls and docu- ments. While Mr. Caley lived, he indorsed a title on every roll that was cleansed and repaired. By his indorsements they appear to consist of Ac- counts of bailifls and receivers of Religious Houses before their dissolution, Court Rolls, Extents, Surveys, Rentals, Stannary Rolls, Contributions, Sub- sidies, Aids, Customs, Pensions to incumbents, Escheat Rolls, and other do- cuments. The sorting of these records has been done by Mr. Gay, by whom alone they were put into the boxes, by counties, while Mr. Cole was in the Oflice. Some, however, he has kept separately ; as records relating to Queen's possessions, Subsidies and Customs, Barkeley's lands, Richmond's lands, Northumberland's lands, Devon and Exeter's lands, and the possessions of Syon Monastery. The next following class, in this statement, has likewise been made a distinct branch. By Mr. Cole's express direction, Mr. Ga^ made Supplement. 447 Indexes to the boxes for Bedfordshire, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Cam- bridgeshire, Cumberland, Cornwall, Devon, Essex, and part of Anglesea. Particulars for Grants of Offices. These have been selected, for the most part, from the unsorted mass of miscellaneous records, since the Fire happened : they fill six old boxes, in the fifth room, and are not yet arranged. Bound Books. The records in volumes principally consist of Chartularies and other antient Registers, and of Surveys, Rentals, and Inrolments of Crown Leases, of the reigns of Henry VIII., Edward VL, Mary and Elizabeth. They are much the same as before the Fire ; and are still in the fifth room, where they are properly arranged, in presses. From the foregoing particulars it appears that, so far is the allegation from truth that Mr. Cole has entirely re-arranged the records of the Office, that, on the contrary, the main bulk of the records is in the same slate of arrange- ment us when he first entered it. The uniting of the old series of Ministers' Accounts with those which have been called the Auditors' Accounts, is the principal work of any extent ; but this change is not attended with any great advantage, as the rolls could all be readily found in their former state : it is but a consequence of their confusion at the time of the Fire. The dis- turbing of the Court Rolls was not only a needless change, but has turned out to be very mischievous : the old Index is now rendered of no use ; and in the stead of the convenience of keeping them separately as rolls, they are laid out in portfolios, and form cumbrous and ponderous volumes. It must not be supposed that the work of arrangement after the Fire, so far as it went, was the work of Mr. Cole alone. From the time when he first came to the OflSce, his knowledge of its contents was entirely derived from Mr. Charles Gay, who taught him the distinct nature and foi-m of the various classes of which they consisted ; and who was, throughout Mr. Cole's time, the constant referee for workmen, for gentlemen searching in the Office, and for Mr. Cole hunself. Mr. Gay was the principal in sorting the records, after their removal to Saint Margaret's Church ; and it appears that, but for his knowledge of the classes, they could hardly have been restored to order again. However Mr. Cole may seem to have superintended that work, and to have given directions for what has been done since ; the services of Mr. Gay have been evidently great and indispensable, both in advising under all difficulties, and in executing whatever was needful to be done in the Office. Nor does it appear that Mr. Cole's services have been wanted, for the direction of the work which continues to be done there by Mr. Gay. W. H. B. ( *48 ) 1) XXV. (i.) List of Documents and Papers given in by the Secretary, as part of his Evidence, before the Select Committee of the House of Commons, [Refeired to at page 262.] [It will be perceived that the printing of the Evidence contained in this volume and of the present Supplement, has given opportunity to arrange this List under con- venient heads, and to perfect it by the addition of references to the places at which they may be found printed, whether in the Evidence of the Select Committee and its Appendix of " Accounts and Papers/' or in the pages of the present work.] Augmentation Office. Correspondence of the Secretary, with Sir George Harrison and Sir Herbert Taylor, relative to records of the Duchy of Cornwall. (Evidence, 1026.) Appendix M.\, Letter of Lord Abinger to the honourable James Stewart, one of the Secre- taries of the Treasury, on the legal custody of the records of the Augmentation Office, after the abolition of the office of Clerk of the Pipe. (Ev. 1026.) Appendix K. 4. Correspondence of the Secretary with Mr. Vincent, respecting the custody of the Augmentation Office Records. (Ev. 1474.) Appendix K. 3. Heading of Ministers' Accounts. (Ev. 2686-7.) Not printed by the Committee : but a translation is contained in the present volume, pp. 134-5. Report of Mr. Hallam and Mr. Petit, on the work carrying on at the Aug- mentation Office and the Record Office in the Tower, under the authority of the Board, dated 19 February 1835. (Ev. 2686-7.) Appendix G. 4, The Secretary's Letter to Mr. Spring Rice, dated 10 April, 1834, written on occasion of the custody of the Augmentation Office Records becoming vacant by Mr. Caley's death. (Ev. 8108.) Appendix K. 3, pp. 889-90. See page 35 of this volume. * List of records and documents cleaned and pressed in the Augmentation Office, during the week ending the 29th of June 1833. Supplement V, • Statement respecting the classes of records preserved in the Augmenta- tion Office, and the changes that have been made in the arrangement there- of. Supplement XXIV. Supplement, 419 Chapter House. A Treasury Minute, respecting the appointment of Sir Francis Palgrave to the office of Keeper of the Exchequer Records at the Chapter House. (Ev. 1173.) Appendix L. 2. The Report of the Committee on the establishment necessary for assisting Sir Francis Palgrave in the proper execution of his office, and the fees that ought to be charged for searches or for copies of documents furnished to the community. (Ev. 1173.) Appendix L. 4. Extract from the Minutes of the proceedings of the Board, held on the 9th of March 1833, relative to the salary of Sir Francis Palgrave. (Ev. 2686-7.) Appendix L. 1. Treasury Constitution, appointing Sir Francis Palgrave Keeper of Records of the Exchequer at the Chapter House, 15 May 1834. (Ev. 2G86-7.) Ap- pendix L. 3. Mr. Caley's last quarterly Report concerning the reparation of records at the Chapter House and other repositories, from September to December 1832. (Ev. 1187.) Not printed by the Committee. Commissioners, and Constitution of the Board. Days of the Meetings of the Boards and Committees of his Majesty's Com- missioners on the Public Records, from March 1831 to December 1835, with the names of the Commissioners present. (Ev. 236-7.) Appendix F. 1. Opinions of Lord Brougham and Mr. William Brougham, and Letters of the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishop of LlandaflT, the Lord Clerk Re- gister, Mr. Justice Bosanquet, Mr. Baron Parke, Mr. Hallam, Mr. Petit, Mr. Bellenden Ker, and Mr. Utterson ; all having reference to the Observa- tions of Mr. Allen. (Ev. 8108.) Appendix G. I. * Letter from the Earl of Aberdeen, dated 8 July 1836, expressing his lordship's opinion upon Mr. Allen's Observations. " Miscellaneous Evidencey' p. 261. Finances. Analysis of the Disbursements of the Commission, from the 12th of March 1831 to the 12th of March 1832, made with reference to the Returns to Parliament of December 1833. (Ev. 7808.) Appendix B. 8. See page 10 of this volume. * Like Analysis of Disbursements from the 12th of March 1833, made with reference to the same Returns. Supplement IV. Account of the receipts of the Present Boards, from 1831 to 1835, and of the receipts of the Old Board, from 1826 to 1831. (Ev. 7868.) Appendix B. 7. Suggestions for the consideration of the right honourable the Chancellor o o II 450 Supplement. of the Exchequer, of the heads under which the expenditure of the Record Board should in future be arranged. (Ev. 7939.) Evidence^ p. 684. Statement respecting the charges comprized in the answers to Questions 1435, 1480, and 1589; (1) on the Board's alleged ignorance of the remu- neration of Editors, (2) on the want ofany apportionment of expenditure, and (3 ) on the omission of all calculations or estimates on any proposed works. (Ev. 8108.) Appendix B. 5. See page 10 of this volume. Foreign Historical Researches, and Transcripts. A short statement as to the Fadera, with the view of showing the expe- diency of foreign searches. (Ev. 8108.) Not printed by the Committee. The substance of it may be found in the Evidence. Letter, addressed to the Secretary from the Royal Society of Northern An- tiquaries at Copenhagen ; together with the Prospectus, a work relating to British and Irish historj-, undertaken by that Society. (Ev. 8153.) Ap- pendix S. 1. Synoptical Catalogue of Foreign Transcripts in the custody of W. H. Black. (Ev. 2001.*) Appendix H. 4. This paper was prepared for Mr. Cooper's evidence, but a copy having been obtained by Mr. Protheroe, it was first given to the Committee by him. • Note of documents referred to in Rymer, but not published in his work, not being extant in this country. ** Miscellaneous Evidence" p. 242. ♦ Circulars of M. Guizot, Minister of Public Instruction, relative to researches for MSS. and historical documents in France. Supplemeiit XVI. • Ordinance of William, King of the Netherlands, inviting learned men to furnish a plan for the construction of a national history on authentic ma- terials; dated 23 December 1826. Supplement XVIII. ♦ Memoirc, par M. le Baron de ReifFenberg, " Sur les tentatives faites au sein de I'Academie pour la publication des monuniens inedits de I'liistoire Belgique." Supplement XIX. * Commission issued by Leopold, King of the Belgians, for the discovery and publication of the inedited chronicles of Belgium, 22 July 1834. Sup- plement XX, ♦ Extraits des procbs-verbaux de la Commission Royale d'Histoire de la Belgique. Supplement XXI. General Record Office. Statement respecting the depositories of records from an early period, and the exertions of the Commissioners to procure a General Record Office. (Ev. 7940.) Appendix B. 2. • Copy of the Bill for erecting a General Record Office on the site of the Rolls Garden, and for other purposes, approved of and settled by the late Master of the Rolls ; and intended to be brought in by Lord Duncannon, in Supplement, 451 pursuance of his lord?)hip*s notice of motion in the House of Commons for leave for that purpose, 14 July 1834. Supplement XV. King's Remembrancer's Office. Copy of the Treasury Warrant of 3 August 1833, authorizing the King's Remembrancer to place the miscellaneous and unsorted records of his office, in the temporary custody of the Commissioners, for the purpose of cleansing, sorting and calendaring the same. (Ev. 507, 508.) Appendix K. 2. Letter addressed by the Secretary to Mr. Vincent, the King's Remem- brancer, on the subject of records in the possession of Mr. Pickering, a book- seller, supposed to have been stolen from the King's Remembrancer's Office ; and Letter and Report on the subject transmitted by Mr. Vincent to the Com- missioners. (Ev. 1225.) Appe7idix K. 1. The first of these documents is omitted in the Committee's Appendix. * Letter from Robert Thompson, Esq. on the subject of the miscellaneous records of the King's Remembrancer's Office. Supplement VI. * Report on the miscellaneous records of the King's Remembrancer's Of- fice, by George Vanderzee, Esq., dated 6 March 1833. Supplement VII. Both these documents were presented to the Committee, on the 2d of Marcli ; but they were not printed in the Appendix. See Evidence, 527. Publications and Works of the Board. Copies, extracted from the Minutes of the Proceedings of the Record Board, of all Orders relative to printing, transcribing and publishing works, with the dates when such Orders were made. (Ev. 2434.) Appendix F. 2. Hints prepared by Mr. Allen, for regulating the distribution of works pub- lished by the Board. (Ev. 2686-7.) Appendix G. 3. Charge of that kind of imperfection which is to be remedied by more ex- tended searches in the various offices, against the publications of the Board, examined. (Ev, 8108.) Appendix B. 4. Statement respecting the distribution of the different works published by the Record Commissioners. (Ev. 7940.) Appendix B. 1. Two papers concerning the Report on the Firdcra, and its Appendix: — (1) W. H. Black's Defence of the originality of his notes on tlie Carmen de Bella Nonnannico, printed in Appendix C. Questions, S^-c. on " Evidence 0/ ilir. Pf/ne," pp. 62-3. (2) Remarks on Mr. Petrie's Evidence relative to the poem de Bello Nor- tnannicoj printed in Appendix C. Ibid. pp. 03-4. Mr. Black's Remarks on so much of Mr. Hardy's Evidence (14th day) as relates to the Report on the Fcedera, and its Appendices. Questions, ^c. on " Evidence of Mr. Hardj/," pp. 83—5. * Account of Mr. Webster's MS. Catalogue of the antient authors of Great Britain and Ireland. Questions, ^c. on " Evidence of Mr. Cole,'' pp. 130-1. G G 2 452 Supplement, II • Estimate of the value of the works presented to public libraries since the year 1834. " Miscellaneous EvidencCf" p. 181. • Letter from the Reverend Joseph Hunter, on the comparative utility of transcription and printing of records. Supplement VIII. • Compar^trv-e Lists of works produced by the Former Commission, in a period corresponding with the duration of the Present Commission, to March 1836. Supplement IX. Given in evidence on the 5lh of July, but not printed by the Coramittee. See Ev. 7868. • Statement respecting an alleged discovery of some portions of the Valor Ecclesiasticus. Supplement X. (i.) • Refutation of so much of Mr. Hardy's Evidence, as relates to the l^ulor Ecclesiasticus. Supplement X. (ii.) • Observations on defects alleged to exist in the publication entitled " Testa de Nevill sen Liber Feodorum in Curia Scaccarii." Supplement XI. • Letter from Mr. Black, on the " Inquisiliones post Mortem" etc, at the Tower. Supplement XII. Records and Record Offices. Circular Questions sent to the principal Record Offices and other reposi- tories, by order of the Board, 20th May 1831. (Ev. 342.) Appendix I. Statement, containing a summary of proceedings of the Board, relative to the condition of the Record Offices, their contents, keepers, &c., compiled from the Minute Books. (Ev. 2156—7.) Appendix F. 3. Statement concernmg the actual classification and arrangement of the records in all the principal Offices. (Ev. 7807.) Pages 670—2. • Drawing of the presses wherein the Great Rolls of the Pipe were formerly preserved; and Note thereon. Supplement XIII. • Notice of the Chancellors' Rolls, sent to the British Museum in 1 833. Supplement XIV. • Mr. Black's Report on the miscellaneous records removed from the King's Mews to the First Fruits Office. Supplement XX H. • Statement by Mr. Black, containing instances of the transfer, the re- covery, or the restoration of records. Supplement XXIII. Rolls Chapel. Memorial of the right honourable Sir John Leach, Master of the Rolls, communicating to the Lords of the Treasury a statement received from Mr. Gawler, Keeper of the records at the Rolls Chapel, showing the unfitness of that repositor3% ^s to space, ventilation, and light, for the important records therein contained. (Ev. 386.) Not printed by the Committee, nor in the present volume. It may be found m the *' Papers relative to the project of building a General Record Office," published in April 1835. ,. Supplement. 453 Letter from the same to the Secretary, for the information of the Board relative to the purchase of the Private Indexes to the records at the Rolls Chapel, for the use of the Public. (Ev. 1026.) Appendix G, 2. * Mr. Palmer's Letter on Mr. Hardy's Evidence respecting the Writs of Privy Seal, Signed Bills, etc. at the Rolls Chapel. Supplement II. School of Transcribers. Statement respecting the School of Young Transcribers. (Ev. 8108.) Appendix B. 3. A statement of the progress made in transcribing Rymer's Manuscripts at the British Museum. (Ev. 8108.) Not printed by the Committee : but see the following farther statement. * Mr. Black's Statement concerning Rymer's Manuscripts and the School of Transcribers. Supplement III. * Report of the Academy of Inscriptions and Belles Lettres, on the Ecole des Chartes. Supplement XVII. (i.) ♦R^glement provisoire de 1' Ecole Royale des Chartes. Supplement XV n. (ii.) * R^glement pour le concours de 1830, arrctc par la Commission de r Ecole. Supplement XVII. (iii.) Tower of London. Outline of Mr. Stevenson's operations, since he was employed on the miscellaneous records at the Tower. (Ev. 1051.) Appendix B. 6. See page 91 of this volume. Mr. Stevenson's quarterly Reports of his progress made in that work, from September 1834, to December 1835. (Ev. 1051.) Appendix II. 3. Annual Report from Mr. Petrie to the Board, of the progress made in calendaring, repairing, and an-angement, at the Tower, from March Ji>34 to March 1835. (Ev. 1071.) Appendix H. 1. Letter of R. Byham, Esq., Secretary to the Board of Ordnance, in answer to the application of the Record Commissioners that the gunpowder under Caesar's 0hapel at the Tower might be removed. (Ev. 1280 — 1 .) Appendix N. * Mr. Stevenson's Estimate of the cost of framing calendars to the Records in the Tower. Questions, ^c. on " Evidence of Mr. Steve7ison," p. 93. * Extracts from a Report of Sir Francis Palgi-ave, relative to the miscel- laneous records in the Tower of London, dated 31 Oct. 1833. Supplement f. * Statement, drawn up in 1834, concerning the earliest Series of Rolls in the Record Office at the Tower, distinguishing which were printed, which were in progress, and what was designed to be done with others. (Ev. 1280. — 1.) Supplement XXV. (ii.) Not printed by the Committee, nor referred to in the present volume ; it is therefore annexed to this List. < ( 454 ) (ii.) Statement f drawn up in 1834, concerning the earliest Series of Rolls in^the Record Office at the Tower of London, distinguishing which were printed, which were in progress, and what was designed to be done with others. PATENT ROLLS. The Patent Rolls commence with the 3rd of John, a. d. 1201, and end with the reign of Ed- ward IV., a. d. 1483. Tliese rolls, for the reign of King John and King Henry III., are to be printed verbatim et literatim, in folio; and, for the period from the reign of Edward I. to that of Edward IV. inclusive, Mr. Steven- son is to select from the rolls such docu- ments as illustrate the general and parti- cular history of this kingdom, and also such as relate to the continental states of Europe, &c. CLOSE ROLLS. The Close Rolls commence These records, for the reigns of John and Henry III., are also to be printed verbatim et literatim, in folio. The first volume is now published, and con- tains the whole reign of John, with the first nine years of Henry III. Mr. Ste- venson will likewise make his selections from these rolls, with a similar object, for the period from the reign of King Ed- wai-d I. to that of Edward IV. inclusive. CHARTER ROLLS. The Charter Rolls commence These rolls, for the reigns of John and with the 6th of John, a.d. 1204, and end with the reign of Ed- ward IV. with the 1st of John, a.d. 1199, and end with the reign of Ed- ward IV. Henry III., are to be printed in similar form with the Close and Patent Rolls. For the remaining years of the Tower series there will not be much matter for illustration of any other than the local history of England, and very few, if any, instruments relating to foreign history. Supplement. 455 FINE ROLLS. The Fine Rolls commence with the 6th of John, a.d. 1204, and end with the reign of Ed- ward IV. The Oblata Rolls are for the 1st, 2d, 3rd, and 9th years of King John only. The Fine Rolls, for the reign of King John, are to be printed in an octavo volume. For the reign of Henry III. these rolls have been thoroughly searched ; and all documents relating to genealogical subjects have been extracted, and are now at press under the direction of Mr. Roberts. From the reign of Edward I. to Edward IV. very little matter will be found fit to be inserted in a General Collection of Na- tional Documents, illustrative of British History.* As these rolls relate principally to genealogical and financial matters, and supply much information on these subjects not elsewhere to be obtained, it is sug- gested that Mr. Roberts might be in- stmcted to make extracts from those rolls for the subsequent reigns, viz. from the reign of Edward I. to Edward IV., where the information contained in them is not to be found in the Inquisitions post mortem. OBLATA ROLLS. They are to be printed in octavo. GASCON ROLLS Commence with the 26th of Henry III., a.d. 1242, and end with the 39th of Henry VI., a. d. 1460. It is necessary to observe that there are several chasms in the series of Gascon Rolls. FRENCH ROLLS. To be printed in a similar form with the Charter, Patent and Close Rolls. The French Rolls commence with the 16th of Henry III., A . d. 1 232, and end with the reign of Edward IV. Also to be printed similar to the Close, Patent and Gascon Rolls. [• When this paper was drawn up, some such work was contemplated by the author of tiiis Statement.] ^^»pi 456 Suppkment, NORMAN ROLLS. Tlie Norman Rolb exist only These rolls are to be printed in octavo for the 2d, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th volumes : one volume is almost completed, years of the reign of King John, A.D, 1200-4, and for the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th years of the reign of Henry V., A.D. 1417-22. The Scottish Rolls . . SCOTTISH ROLLS. have already been printed by authority of the late Record Commission. WELSH ROLLS. The Welsh Rolls begin in the To be printed in octavo volumes. 4th year of Edward I., a.d. 1 276, and end with the 2Srd year of the same reign, a.d. 1295. ROMAN ROLLS. The Roman Rolls do not com- mence imtil the 34th year of Edward I., a.d. 1306, and end with the 22d year of Edward III., A.D. 1248. To be printed in octavo volumes. 1 (i PARLIAMENT ROLLS. The Parliament Rolls . . are already printed in six volumes. The Statute Rolls STATUTE ROLLS. . are printed in the Statutes at Large. LIBERATE ROLLS. The Liberate Rolls commence with the 2d year of John, a. d. 1200, and end with the reign of King Henry VL For the reigns of John and Henry II L these rolls are to be printed in octavo vo- lumes : from that period to the close of the series, it will be advisable to search them for materials for the grand National Collection. i ' V !--^ >-^- f . •')^;^f:' JU; ■y5^ '^5?-: ~rt -^~^, Jf;-V-- — ^ <,' ** /, ::'-k '^ • ;-. cv» :l .-^> ^\ar.;;--j?*^'>>i-\'. ..M, |-<;c- ^^', ' /" " A.„ -v: \- -^- ~ A' -■- -^1^ - ~'^ "^' f ■ ' V. ' « ■ — 1 KC ii ■: .mm- 1 ' i ^ - . 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