Price One Shilling. 5) RE (ii “VOLUME XVI. hire linia, —_ = ud (ui Oa ee ; SY Fe Pooks phew Lie top nnnasnn, JOURNAL aa iO as Bs, | 5 od ¥ Sem” see ~ OF THE | BAST INDIA ASSOCIATION, | . Laat | ‘ 26, CHARING CROSS, 8.W. : ————, F| PUBLISHED UNDER THE AUTHORITY + OF THE COUNCIL. ~ [Issurp Aveusr, 1884,] oh My " CONTENTS. . a eae 4 PAGE 7 Huropean Pauperism in India... ; : i 5 : ‘ . 3853 r f0 ud “Bt a. : : : . 899 L O NDON: EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION , 26, CHARING CROSS, S.W. W. H. ALLEN & Co., 13, WATERLOO PLACE, S.W. 1884. LJ 1 Ori OoUGHS, OLDS, C STHMA, Beene R. J. COLLIS BROWNE’S CHLORODYNE. — Dr. J. C. BROWNE (late Army Medical Staff) DISCOVERED a REMEDY to denote which he coined the word CHLORO- DYNE. Dr. Browne is the SOLE IN- y nlorodyne must be false. This Caution is a tegand be as many persons deceive purchasers by false re- presentations. R. J. COLLIS BROWNE’S CHLORODYNE.—Vice Chan- cellor Sir W. PAGE WOOD stated yublicly in Court that Dr. J. COLLIS ROW NE was UNDOUBTEDLY the INVENTOR of CHLORODYNE, that the whole story of the defendant Free- man was deliberately untrue, and he regretted to say it had been sworn to.— See The Times, July 13th, 1864. R. J. COLLIS BROWNE’S CHLORODYNE is a liquid me- ginal & Only Ge Ss REAT SPECIFIC FOR HOLERA, DYSENTERY IARRHGA. ‘The GENERAL BOARDofHEALTH, London, REPORT that it ACTS as a | \CHARM, one dose generally sufticient. \Dr. GIBBON,Army Medical Staff,Cal- cutta, states: “2 D LY CURED ME of DIARRH@A.” Chemists, Medical Hall, Simla.— J anuary 5, 1880. East. As aremedy of general utility, we much question whether a better is im ported into the country,and we shall b glad to hear of its finding a place in every Anglo-Indian home. The othe ibrands,we are happy to say,are now re llegated tothenative bazaars, &,judging| from their sale, we fancy their sojourn there will be but evanescent. We could multiply instances ad infinitum of the extraordinary efficacy of Dr. COLLIS BROWNE’S CHLORODYNEin Diar- rheea and Dysentery, Spasms, Cramps, Neuralgia, theVomiting of Pregnancy, and as a general sedative, that have oc- We have never used Ch S other form of this medicine than Collis Browne’s, from a firm conviction that it is deci-. dedly the best, and also from a sense of duty we owe to the profession znd the public, as we are of opinion that the substitution of any other than Collis Browne’sis a deliberate breach of faith on the part of the chemist to prescriber SES COMPLETE-|2nd patient alike.—We are, Sir, faith- fully yours, SYMES & CO., Members of ri ‘ag ithe Pharm. Society of Great Britain, His From Sxymus & Co., Pharmaceutical Broellency the Viceroy’s Oheméste. R. J. COLLIS BROWNE’S CHLORODYNE is the TRUE PALLIATIVE in TFERURALGIA,GOUT,CANCER OOTHACHE, RHEU- _MATISM, _ lan R. J. COLLIS BROWNE’S CHLORODYNE rapidly cuts short all attacks of PILEPSY, SPASMS, COLIC, ALPITATION, : Pp HYSTERIA, MPORTANT CAUTION. A _ The IMMENSE SALE of this REMEDY has given rise to many UNSCRUPULOUS IMITATIONS. N.B.—EVERY BOTTLEOF GENU INE CHLORODYNE BEARS on the GOVERNMENT STAM? the NAME of the INVENTOR, R. J. COLLIS BROWNE. dicine which assuages PAIN of'curred under our personal observation VERY KIND, affords a calm, re-\duringmany years. In Choleraic Diar- freshing sleep WITHOUT HEAD-'rhea, and even in the more terrible ACHE, and INVIGORATES the ner-\formsofCholeraitself,we have witness- aus system when exhausted. ed its surprisingly controlling power. SOLD IN BOTTLES, 1s. 13d., 2s. Od., & 4s. 6d., by all Chemists. SOLE MANUFACTURER, J. T. DAVENPORT, 338, GREAT RUSSELL STREET, W.C. SAR S AVA Rr dea. oe WILKINSON’S ESSENCE or FLUID EXTRACT oF RED JAMAICA SARSAPARILLA. PRESCRIBED BY THE FACULTY FOR PURIFYING THK BLOOD, DEBILITY, LIVER COMPLAINTS, and freeing the system from the effects of Mercury. Exclusively used in India and the Colonies as a prevention to tropical diseases. ‘‘ Superior preparation that may always be relied upon.’-—Sir AsTLeY COOPER. ““ We are in every respect satisfied with it.”.—LANceET. CAUTION.—Many spurious, worthless, and injurious preparations are offered to the public. both Bottle and Label have the Name and Address, also Trade Mark—W in a Diamond, WHITMORE’S STOMACHIC LIVER PILLS. No Pill is so efficacious in promoting Digestion, strengthening the Stomach, correcting Acidity, preventing or removing Headache, Giddiness, &c., arising from a Costive Habit, Debilitated Stomach, or Torpid Liver. Those of the most delicate constitution may take them with safety. Taken as an adjunct with WILKINSON'S SARSAPARILLA with the greatest success. Prepared only by THOMAS WILKINSON, 270, Regent Street, London, W. May be had of all the principal firms in India, LAMPLOUGHEH’S PYRETIC SALINE. Effervescing & Tasteless; most Invigorating, Vitalising § Refreshing. Gives instant relief in Heapacnr, Ska or BiLious SicknxEss, INDIGESTION, CONSTIPA- TION, LassiruDE, HEARTBURN, FEVERISH COLDS, and prevents aud quickly relieves or cures the worst form of TYPHUS, SCARLET, JUNGLE, and other FEVERS, PRICKLY Heat, SMaLL Pox, Mras_es, ERUPTIVE OR SKIN COMPLAINTS, and various other Altered Conditions of the Blood. The cure for Cholera and preventive of Dysentery. DR. MORGAN :—‘‘ It furnishes the blood with its have great pleasure in bearing my cordial testimony most saline constituents.” to its efficacy in the treatment of many of the ordi- DR. TURLEY :—‘'I found it act as a specific, in nary and Chronic forms of Gastric Complaints, and my experience and family, in the worst form of other forms of Febrile Dyspepsia.” Scarlet Fever, no other medicine being required.” DR. J. W. DOWSING :—* I used it in the treate DR. SPARKS (Government Medical Inspector of ment of- forty-two cases of Yellow Fever, and I am Emigrants for the Port of London) writes:—‘I happy to state I never lost a single case.” ( A systematic course prevents and cures obstinate Costiveness. Notice my Name and Trade Mark. In Patent Glass-stoppered Bottles, 2s 6d, 4s 6d, 11s, and 21s each. H. LAMPLOUGH, Consulting Chemist, 118, Holborn, London, E.C, — See that Dr. J. COLLIS BROWNE'S © ait CHLORODYNE JOURNAL OF THE EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION, Instituted for. the independent and disinterested advocacy and promotion, by all legitimate means, of the public interests and welfare of the Inhabitants of India generally. EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. PAPER BY THE VENERABLE ARCHDEACON BALY, READ AT A MEETING OF THE EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION, ON MONDAY, JUNE 23, 1884. Sir RICHARD TEMPLE, Banrt., G.c.s.1., 0.1.E., D.O.L., IN THE CHAIR. A MEETING of the members and friends of the East India Association was held on Monday afternoon, June 23rd, 1884, in the Exeter Hall ‘Council Chamber, for the purpose of considering a paper by the Venerable Archdeacon Baly, entitled ‘‘ European Pauperism in India: its Causes and Cure.” Sir Ricuarp Tempue, Bart., G.c.s.1., O.1.E., D.c.L. (President of the Association), occupied the chair, and amongst those present were the following :—Sir Basil F. Hall, Bart.; Major-General R. M. Macdonald; Captain T. Hay Campbell; Rev. James Long; Rev. J. Crompton Sowerbutts; Dr. R. Pringle; Brigade-Surgeon G. A. Watson; Mr. A. Arathoon ; Mr. C. W. Arathoon; Mr.F. T. Atkins; Mr. R. F. Chisholm ; Mrs. Clark; Mr. R. Clark; Mr. Hyde Clarke; Miss Sophia Cracroft ; Mr. Robert H. Elliot; Mr. J. G. Ferraud; Mr. Fitzmaurice; Mr. J. H. Howard ; Mr. Arthur Hullah; Mr. J. B. Knight; Mr. B. S. Mankar; Mr. R. G. Orr (Madras) ; Mr. C. Pfoundes; Mr. John Shaw (Madras) ; Mrs. Shaw ; Mrs. Henry Woodrow; Mrs. Woolmar; Mr. W. Hamilton Burn (Secretary). No, 6.—Vot, XVI. 28 354 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. In opening the proceedings, the CHAIRMAN said: Before — beginning with the particular business of the afternoon, I should like with your permission to give notice that this Hast India Association of ours contemplates very shortly holding a discussion with a view to petitioning the Secretary of State for India for a Wild Birds’ Protection Act. The interest and importance of that matter will commend itself I am sure to the consideration of all those who are acquainted with India, and I am glad to see at this moment that we are favoured with the presence of my friend Mr. Elliot, who takes an enlightened interest in this subject. Now, ladies and gentlemen, permit me to introduce to you, if introduction is necessary, our old and venerated friend Archdeacon Baly, late of the diocese of Calcutta. The Archdeacon is about to address us to-day upon the subject of European Pauperism in India, its causes and its cure. I need hardly remind you that no person, either in Hurope or in Asia, is more qualified to speak upon this subject than the Venerable Archdeacon Baly, for he has for a long time in India identified himself with this subject; indeed, this particular cause he has made his own. He has visited these poor Europeans in their squalid and neglected homes, bringing to them the beneficient message of everlasting peace. He has also been strenuous in providing for the education of their children, rescuing these little ones from vice and ignorance, tenderly conducting them from degradation to civilization, and leading them forth from darkness into light. And, not only has he endeavoured to provide schools for these children in the plain? of India, but also in the bracing and salubrious regions of the Himalayas. Besides that he has advocated the cause of our poor European or Hurasian, or half- caste fellow-subjects, in writing and in speaking, by lectures and speeches on various occasions, by sermons from the pulpit, and by frequent representations to the authorities ; he has also inserted valu- able and impressive notices upon this important subject in many of the public prints of England.» And now, though he has given up that extensive cure in which under Providence he wrought so much good in India, still he thinks of those he has left behind him on the other side of the ocean, and this afternoon he has come to give us his maturest and his latest ideas upon this subject. Iam sure that to the exposition which he will now read to you, you will give the most respectful attention, for he is a man who has a claim to speak and a right to be heard, and in truth he has been instant and constant in good works. Before calling upon you to give your best attention to what the Venerable Archdeacon has to say, I may mention that we have received letters of apology for unavoidable absence from the Venerable Arch- deacon Drury and from Mr. W. Martin Wood. EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 355 Archdeacon Drury writes as follows :—“I have a meeting to- morrow from which I cannot absent myself. I expected that Mr. White’s agricultural scheme would have provided for a goodly number of Hurasian poor; but I gather from a passage youghave marked in Archdeacon Baly’s paper, that the scheme collapsed. It is a most difficult problem to know what can be done for the poorer classes of Hurasians, who are badly fed, and therefore grow up weak, and unequal to any great physical or mental exertion. Good education in an invigorating climate, and good food and strict discipline, will redeem a great number from listlessnessand inactivity. For subordinate situations, many educated natives will do the necessary work on about half the salary that an East Indian can live upon, and therefore obtain employment sooner than an East Indian. You have Sir Richard Temple—a great man—and Archdeacon Baly, for coadjutors in the cause. If I attended the meeting, I could do no more than say some- thing ought to be done. Hast Indians must, it seems to me, according to the present régimé, mix with natives in schools which, as a rule, in Mofussil towns, provide a far better secular education than that offered in small Hast Indian schools under masters with less pay and lower acquirements. I know this remedy has .its draw-backs and very serious ones, but still I think in these days of competition where only inferior education is otherwise alone available for the poorer class of Hast Indians in the Mofussil, it is worth adopting. I see no other course to fit them for the keen struggle for life into which they must enter. A school for the poor ought not to be a school in which only very poor education is afforded, just sufficient to enable them to read novels and write begging-letters. Take an Eurasian lad out of such a school, employ, examine him, and see how deficient he is in quali- fications and acquirements necessary for the more lucrative situations. You will find also that natives of the same standard of intellectual acquirements will work accordingly on much lower pay. The painful result 1s too obvious. I shall look forward with interest to read the result of your meeting.” Mr. W. Martin Woop expresses his regret at his inability to be present, but he sends the following rough notes as a contribution to the discussion :—‘‘ Although we have recently had a subject before us similar, in certain respects, to the one treated of in the present paper, this. branch of the question, as dealt with by Archdeacon Baly, comes in more tangible form, while the suggestions made towards its solution are eminently practical. . There is one remark I would make on the definition or rather phrase, ‘The middle and poorer classes of Huropeans’ in India, which may be rather misleading, No one who 28 * 356 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. © reads the paper carefully, especially having local knowledge as most members of our Association have of the classes referred to, can make any serious mistake. It is chiefly classes of mixed descent that have to be considered. Perhaps the phraseology used in the paper is most - suitable for the present purpose, and the difficulty of improving on it will be felt by those who remember, as our President must very distinctly, how Sir Henry Maine, when settling the Act for restraining ‘loaferism’ in India, Bound himself driven to adopt the phrase ‘ persons of European extraction.’ This term was made to include not only Levantines and other waifs and strays from Europe; but Americans (mostly vagabond sailors) and Australians. By conjoining Sir Henry Maine’s and Archdeacon Baly’s phrases the classes to be considered may be aptly indicated thus—persons of European extraction who live, labour, and die in India, and whose children have the same career. The very careful description given in the paper of the sub- division of this really large class in the trading cities of India, seems to place the whole of this grave and difficult question fairly before us. That its difficulties do not obtrude themselves in the surface of the paper is good evidence of—what we know from other sources—that Archdeacon Baly has faced those difficulties and thoroughly grappled with them. That he has disposed of them would be too much to say; but he has put the whole business before us in such a way as to show that it can and must be dealt with. We are confronted with the inevitable question of public expense—of State funds being applied to the necessities of special classes. Well, this has often had to be done in India, and we must not shrink from considering it in the shape now presented. Our President can readily indicate the scope of this little, but real, political difficulty ; and in the Archdeacon’s paragraph on page 364, ‘Under the present ‘inequality,’ &c., he has come to as nearly a vindication of his plea ascan be framed. In all he says as to the very strong claims for steady voluntary contributions towards the education of the classes in question, I heartily concur; and I trust that one incidental result of this meeting will be that many of our members and friends may be incited to contribute and collect donations and subscriptions for the Indo-British schools at Bombay, and other similar institutions which Archdeacon Baly will be glad to name. As he says (page 364), the people of India who contribute tens of thousands for the Christian Propaganda in India, must take their share of the cost of rescuing their kindred, so to speak, from ignorance and pauperism. As to openings of employment of the classes in question, I am glad to notice the decided and authoritative tone adopted by the writer of the EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 357 i paper to the effect that there are ample openings in India for fairly remunerative work, if only these persons of European extraction can be trained for it. It is something that the Archdeacon sweeps aside two or three of the fanciful and eleemosynary schemes for absorbing or disposing of the Eurasian population. There is no self-sustaining or continuous element in those schemes. From my own observations —also knowing what has been done by Messrs. Burn’s energetic firm at Calcutta—there is ample scope for the sober and industrious youths of this class as artisans and workers in such industries as fitters and mechanical engineers. In this connection it is proper to enter protest, if that shall be needed, against the mistake that was made in the invidious order excluding Hurasians or country-born Huropeans from the Engineering College at Roorki. That was a palpable blunder. The similar enforced exclusion from the Bengal Pilot Service—of which I was not aware—was also a gratuitous mistake. It may be affirmed as a golden rule—one that clears up many perplexities in Indian administration—all classes or race disqualifications must be minimized, and, as rapidly as may be, abolished. The reference to the Bengal Pilot Service reminds me of a proposal embodied several years ago in a memorandum by an experienced Indian nayal captain, now Port Officer of Bombay, that a special lighthouse and lightship service might suitably be instituted to be manned chiefly by Hurasians including the Portuguese. The more comprehensive proposals made by Archdeacon Baly (pages 371, 372) should be brought into working shape as soon as practicable. Above all, care should be taken not to induce or invite any European artisans or employés to India except under conditions that will enable them to return to Hurope after completing the term of their engagement. India is not, and cannot be made, a suitable field for Huropean immigrants. Hence every line of Archdeacon Baly’s concluding paragraph is worthy of being recorded as a sort of standing order that should always be present to the minds of all responsible persons whose places and proceedings may bear on the subject of this paper.” The Venerable Archdeacon BALY then read the following paper :— I propose in this paper to speak of the present condition of the middle and lower classes of Europeans in India, and of what is necessary for their welfare and future usefulness to the country. Under the term ‘‘ Europeans,” I include those of mixed descent in whatever degree, as well as those of pure European origin; for convenience sake they are sometimes distinguished as follows :— - 358 . BAST INDIA ASSOOTATION. 1. Pure Europeans, among whom Americans are included. | 2. Anglo-Indians: recent settlers of English descent, oo a slight admixture of native blood. =. 3. Eurasians, those in whom the two races are oqaally blended. 4, Hast Indians, of a remote get origin in whom the native descent predominates. If classified with regard to social condition and forms of sintploe= ment— The upper class of Europeans consists almost entirely of persons of pure European descent, the civil and military officers of Government, and the wealthy merchants, lawyers, planters and traders. They are not a permanent element of the population, they reside in India only for a certain term: of years, and their children are sent to Hurope during the period of growth and education, and often remain there permanently. My remarks will not refer to these at all, but only to Europeans, who, whether of mixed or pure descent, live, labour, and die in India, and whose children have the same career. These form the middle aia poor classes of Huropeans. The upper section of the middle class includes the higher clerks in Government and mercantile offices, tradesmen, pilots, assistants and superintendents on plantations, and others on qiegiies not below £200 or £300 a year. In the lower section of the same class are found the less highly-paid subordinates and clerks in the Government departments, and in mercantile, railway and manufacturing employment, and small tradesmen. For the most part, all the above in both sections are either pure Huropeans, Anglo-Indian, or Eurasians, and the pro- portion of the so-called East Indians among them is comparatively small. The poor class of Europeans comprise the lowest grades of clerks and employés in railway factories, &c., and the great army of the unemployed ; both are for the most part Hast Indian, but the latter include a large proportion of those who either through misfortune or misconduct have fallen out of the other classes. The total number of the European population of India has, to my knowledge, never been accurately ascertained, but it has been variously computed as between 200,000 and 300,000, it has increased most rapidly during the last quarter of acentury, and will probably 1 increase with at least equal rapidity during the next, owing to the great extension of the railway system, and works of irrigation, the opening up of new districts, and the general development of the resources of the country. It has now become a very serious problem how this EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 359 indigenous population of India shall be maintained as a self-supporting and profitable community, and aided in their struggle against the two great difficulties they have to contend with—an unsuitable climate, and the competition of the cheaper native labour. | Numerically it may seem that the interests of some 250,000 Europeans are of small concern,-when. compared with the interests of the 250,000,000 of the native population, but it should be remembered that they are of the ruling race, and the representatives of its qualities brought into the nearest social contact with the natives, that their work is indispensably necessary to the development of the country, that a very large proportion of them are directly or indirectly in the service of the Government, or descendants of those who have been so employed, and that European labour has been drawn to the country to carry out the works which the Government has taken in hand or encouraged ; that our Government, though beyond all comparison the best that India has ever had, is still a Government of the alien and the conqueror, accepted as a necessity rather than loved ; that the one drop of EKuropean blood, and the common Christianity of the poorest East Indian draw him closer to us than interest has ever yet been able to draw either Hindu or Mahomedan, and that in any outburst of the latent elements of dissatisfaction in the native races, 1t is of the highest importance that the one portion of the population of India, indissolubly bound to us by nationality, religion, sympathy, and interest, should be a manly, independent, intelligent, industrious class. When all this is taken into account no English statesman can consider unimportant, or unnecessary, any measures tending to preserve the indigenous Europeans as such a class, and to save them from sinking to a level of hopeless degradation and pauperism. So far back as 1860, Lord Canning saw very clearly the danger of this, unless measures were speedily taken to avert it, and expressed his opinion of what character those measures should be in his well-known Minute on the Education of Europeans, from which I cannot do better than quote the following :—‘‘If measures for educating them are not “promptly and vigorously encouraged and aided by Government, ‘¢we shall find ourselves embarrassed with a floating population ‘of Indianized-English, loosely brought up, and exhibiting most of “the worst qualities of both races; whilst the Eurasian population, “already so numerous that the means of education afforded to it are ** quite inadequate, will increase more rapidly than ever. Ican hardly ‘imagine a more profitless, unmanageable community than one so ‘composed ; but a very few years will make it, if neglected, a glaring “reproach to the Government, and to the faith which it will, 360 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. ‘‘however ignorant and vicious, nominally profess. On the other hand, — ‘‘if cared for betimes it will become a source of strength to British “‘rnle, and of usefulness to India.” Lord Canning here points to the very first step which, in his judg- “ment, ought to be taken in order to make the European in ‘India a self-maintaining and profitable citizen; and his judgment is most entirely right. Education is the first necessity of every European born and bred in India, without which, every other measure is unavailing, for he is excluded from all the occupations which an uneducated man can follow by the competition of natives who can work for a low scale of wages which will not maintain the Huropean; and the only employ- ments open to him that afford a maintenance, demand intelligence, a considerable degree of general knowledge, special attainments, or technical skill, and therefore a good education. This is to him the first necessity, and the essential condition of an honest livelihood, without which, he has etther to beg, steal, or starve. The first measure, therefore, in the solution of the problem, How are Europeans in India to be preserved as an industrious and independent class, is to provide education for their children ; and the second is to provide employment for their adults. If both of these can be accomplished, the children of the industrious classes will not fall below-their parents’ condition, and those of the pauper class will rise above it. To begin with their education. A census, carefully taken in 1874, showed a total of 27,000 of European children of school-going years, excluding children of the upper class who are educated in Europe, and the children of soldiers. It certainly would seem no very difficult matter to provide this number with an education suitable to their conditions of life, for the great majority of them require no more advanced tuition than is given in a high-class board or national school in England, teaching up to the Seventh Standard; and though the children of the upper section of the middle require a higher tuition in geometry, algebra, mechanics and physical science, to qualify them for their future employments, yet they do not need any better education than is ordinarily given in a good English middle-class school. But that there are difficulties is proved by the fact that of these 27,000 children only 15,000 are returned as under instruction, and the education received by a great: part of these is of an inferior quality, as I have tested by the examination of nearly all the schools in the Bengal _ Presidency. It may be said, therefore, with truth, that at least one-half of the Huropean boys in India are not receiving an education which will fit them to get their living. EUROPEAN PAUPERISMU IN INDIA. 361 The causes of this.are the following :— 1. A large number of children are scattered over country districts, or invery small stations where no European school can be established. 2. A larger number still is found in stations where, if any school is possible, it must be of a most elementary character, and taught by a poorly-paid and inferior teacher, there being too few children above ten or twelve to render a better school possible. 3. In the larger stations with suitable European schools, a large number of children are unable to attend on account of poverty, or the distance of the schools from their homes, which in the hot season and the rains is a practical barrier to school-attendance for all children without the means of conveyance. 4. The native schools cannot be used by European children. They are—first, at too great a distance generally from the quarter of the city or the station in which they reside; secondly, instruction in them is wholly unsuited to English-speaking children, being given in the vernacular languages, and from vernacular text-books; and, thirdly, European parents have an insuperable dislike based on religious, moral, and social grounds, to the daily association of their children with Hindu and Mahomedan school-fellows, and to their education by Hindu and Mahomedan teachers during the most impressible years of their life. 5. The number of young children left orphans by the premature death of parents, and of children made paupers by reason of their parents being out of employment, either through sickness or misconduct, is abnormally large. But there is neither a poor-law nor education rate to supplement the failure of voluntary efforts to maintain and educate them, and how far these fail is proved by the fact that in every election for free admission into the large orphanages of Calcutta, for one child admitted, seven or eight almost as helpless are rejected. 6. Nearly the whole of the indigenous Huropean population is distributed over the plains of India, which are unfavourable to the healthy growth of European children. They are subject to frequent attacks of fever, diarrhoea and dysentery, and those who do not die in childhood, reach maturity with an enfeebled constitution, unequal to arduous and sustained work and to exposure to the climate. A strong constitution is no less essential to Europeans for employment than a good education. But residence in the plains during the years of growth is the great cause of sickness in mature life, which too often carries off the bread-winner prematurely, or throws him out of employ- ment for long periods together, if not permanently, and thus more than anything else increases the amount of European pauperism among the 362 _ BAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. old, and helplessness among the young. It cannot, therefore, be too strongly insisted on that Hwropean children ought to be educated im the hills, where they shall have a good climate as well as good schools, for in no other way will it be possible to make Huropean working men in India a self-maintaining class. 7. The great want of all the European schools in India is trained teaching, only to be remedied by the establishment of a training college; but this does not yet exist in the whole of India, and trained teachers have to be imported from England at a cost prohibitive except to a very few of the larger schools. It is evident from the above that the tmmediate wants are—more local elementary schools; central free schools for the very numerous orphan and indigent children; cheaper and larger hill-boarding schools ; and the general improvement of the teaching staff in all schools. The Government of India has aimed at supplying these by the provisions of the code of education for European schools sanctioned in 1883, which directs that elementary schools shall be opened in all stations where an average attendance of at least twelve European children can be brought together, that central free schools shall be built and half-maintained at the cost of Government in Allahabad and Lahore, that measures lessening the cost of boarding schools should be sanctioned, and that liberal grants-in-aid should be made to pupil- teachers and a training college. There can be no doubt that if fully carried out the new code will be a very great benefit to Europeans, but, in order that it may be carried out at all, a much larger amount must be raised by voluntary contributions than is ltkely to be raised by the Huropean ees of India alone, Fees cannot be raised above their present level in any class of school without reducing the number of pupils, nor is it probable that the benevolent contributions of the wealthier classes will supply the whole sum required for the establishment and maintenance of schools for the poorer. I do not say that Europeans of all classes cannot afford, or ought not to spend more on European education than they do, yet when judged by the standard of general practice everywhere, they certainly spend as much as, or perhaps more than on the average, men are found to spend elsewhere. No doubt parents of the middle and poorer classes in India could afford larger school fees if they exercised more economy and self-denial, just as the English working classes, witha larger share of these virtues, would need the aid neither of the involuntary rate, nor of the voluntary subscriptions of their betters. Yet the English Government and people, by the Education EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 363 Act of 1870, decided to protect the children rather than punish the parents, and the same principle should be followed in India where the European parent of the middle and lower classes, if he does not spend all he can, has at least to spend more, and does spend more on education than the parent in England. And with respect to the wealthier class of Kuropeans, it is too small to meet in full all the demands made upon it by the various needs of a disproportionately large poor community. Besides schools and teachers, it has to provide churches and clergy, almshouses and orphanages, regular poor relief, and frequent occasional subscriptions in special cases. The support of Christian Missions, and of a variety of local native institutions falls upon them too, and with all these together the account of European benevolence exhibits a total at least as large as that of an equal number of equally rich men in England. The heavy discounts on all Indian incomes, which do not exist in Eftgland, have also to be considered. The insurance against risks from climate, the saving against the certainty of comparatively early superannuation, the expenditure necessary on the score of health and education of children, the loss in exchange on all home remittances amounting annually in many cases to £200 or £300 a year, the frequent changes during the course of Indian service, which are not only the source of serious pecuniary loss, but weaken the stimulus of local attachment. and responsibility. These are all necessary first charges on an Indian income, which reduce very largely the amount left free for benevolent purposes, and proportionately lessen the ability of the higher paid officials and the few wealthy merchants to provide a permanent fund large enough to establish and maintain an educational system under which it shall be possible for every European boy to obtain an education qualifying him to get his own living. Without taking into account the establishment of new local schools and the improvement and enlargement of the old, the share falling upon private benevolence, in the Northern Presidency alone, of the cost of maintaining the two central orphanages at Allahabad and Lahore and the training college contemplated by the new code may be estimated to amount to £7200 a year, and I am perfectly sure that it is practically impossible to raise this additional amount by voluntary contributions. The same may be said for the additional expenditure on Huropean education in the Madras and Bombay Presidencies, it cannot be met by the voluntary contributions of the European community alone, and, so far as I can see, this can be done only in one of three ways. 1. By an educational rate on all house property held by Huropeans in towns and stations where the voluntary system has not sufficed for its educational requirements. 364. EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. And this measure I recommended to the Government of India, in ~ order that as small an amount as possible of the cost of Huropean schools might be thrown upon the public revenue, and that the schools should be under local European administration. But the sanction of the Viceroy in Council was refused to it. 2. By the Government taking upon itself the charge of Huropean education as it has taken upon itself the charge of the education of natives. . “ Under the present inequality of treatment the cost of education in native schools falls almost wholly upon the Government, in Huropean schools almost wholly on parents and others contributing tothem. But in the face of the dire necessity of improved education for Huropeans in India, of the proved inability of the voluntary system to supply it, and of the refusal of Government of India to sanction an Huropean educational rate, I do not hesitate to assert that as Government provides suitable schools for all classes of natives, it should do the same for all classes of indigenous Europeans, who, living, working, dying, in India, and leaving children to succeed them, are for all practical purposes natives of the country. And thisis not only the more humane, but will also be found the cheaper course. Jive they must: they can either earn their living, or prey upon society for it, and the cost of schools to train them to earn it by an honest industry, will be less than the cost of maintain- ing them either in or out of prisons and workhouses as vagrants, paupers and criminals. | 3. If neither of these two measures fall within the range of practical politics, and European education must still be left to voluntary effort, then the only possible way in which that can be successful is for the people of England to take part in it and help to raise the necessary funds. Many thousands of pounds are sent annually from England to India for the conversion of its natives, and surely the duty lies as near to us to send some few thousands for the education of its European children, which is so essentially necessary both for their moral and material welfare. One thing is perfectly plain, their present want of it tends inevitably to their degradation and ruin, and floods India year by year with hundreds of present and future paupers. Some mode of remedy for it must be found. If it is best dealt with by the State let the State take it in hand in no hesitating, parsimonious and feeble way, but as knowing well the evil, and determined at all costs to stay it. If it is still to be left to voluntary effort, the people of England must take their share of the cost. The sure growth of ignorance and consequent pauperism among the Europeans of India is an evil which cannot be endured but must be cured, and I can conceive no fitter aim EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 365 of the East India Association than the application of its best thought and endeavours to devise and carry out the means of cure. I turn now from the education to the employment of Europeans in India; and the first question is, Whether there is a sufficient amount of profitable employment for them, 7.e., affording them a suitable maintenance, without either loss to the State, or injustice to native claims and interests ? In my opinion there is a sufficient amount of such employment available for every able-bodied, sober, industrious, intelligent and honest Huropean in India. In 1874, as already stated; the total number of European children of school-going years, and of both sexes, was in round numbers 27,000, it may now be 30,000, which would give a total of about 15,000 boys. The school-age in India begins and ends later than in England, and may on the average be considered to include the ten years between six and sixteen. The annual out-turn therefore of boys, who have completed their school course and are ready for employment, will be 1500, less the reduction for deaths during the school-age. In acountry so vast as India, so rapidly developing in every direction, and therefore afford- ing so wide a field for the qualities of energy, enterprise, mechanical skill, and intelligence, in all of which the European excels the natives of India, I cannot think that there is no room for the profitable employ- ment of so small a number of Europeans, under any judicious and impartial system of treatment, notwithstanding the competition of the cheaper native labour. Ofcourse in India, as everywhere else, those who do not possess the necessary qualifications, or have them counter- balanced by grave moral or physical disqualification, cannot find the employment they need. Taking this view, I see no necessity forthe novel and extraordinary modes of European employment which have been proposed only on the theory that otherwise Europeans must remain unemployed; and as every effort inthe wrong direction injures effort in the right, and ends in disappointment, I will here say a few words on the three proposals most prominently advocated. The first is that land should be allotted in the hills, and agricultural colonies formed from the many unemployed Eurasians and East Indians of the larger towns. But they are wholly ignorant of agriculture, have neither aptitude nor liking for it, and are essentially a town- bred and town-living class; none who could find only a meagre maintenance by easy head or hand work in a town would prefer even a better one, if earned by manual open-air work in the fields, exposed to sun and rain. The agricultural scheme would only be accepted as a last resource by those who have failed in the town from sickness, 366 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. indolence, intemperance, incapacity, and who from the same causes would fail still more signally in the untried, more arduous and distasteful occupation of tilling the soil. The attempt, however, has been made by some benevolent members of the Hurasian and Anglo- Indian Association in the south of India, and the result has been the failure which might have been foreseen, and indeed was foreseen, by all but its too enthusiastic originators. A second plan was to export the supposed surplus Eurasian and East Indian population to Australia and New Zealand, and communi- cations were addressed to one of the Australian Governments about it. The reply was a very decided but very wise negative. The Hurasian is not likely to be a successful settler in a new land, under any - circumstances, but he would fail utterly against the competition of the stronger, hardier and more energetic settlers from Europe, and in Australia his last estate would be worse than the first. The formation of Eurasian and Hast Indian regiments was a third scheme. Its advocates asserted that as many as seven regiments could be raised, but an essential condition was that they should receive the same pay and allowances as British troops in India and be treated in all respects like them. This was referred tome by the Government of India for an opinion... My reply was that no Eurasian would enlist as a soldier who had a good character and the prospect of any other employment, that the recruits would therefore be drawn from the unemployed and unemployable—that is to say, from the least capable portion of the lowest class of the Hurasians and Hast Indians of the large towns, and that though perhaps one regiment might be raised from such, it would include very few men of good constitution and character, and would serve only as a refuge for the destitute. This would beso,im my opinion, even were the pay and allowances and the general treatment of the British soldiers in India promised as an inducement; but an Hast Indian, who has neither the physical strength nor courage of the British soldier, and enlists only for service in his own country, has no right to expect the pay and allowances which the stronger and braver British soldier, who can be employed in any quarter of the globe, only receives when on foreign service; and it may be considered certain that if a lower scale of pay were offered a very small number indeed of country-born Huropeans would be attracted by it. Much stress is laid upon the raising of one or two Eurasian regiments during the critical time of the mutiny, but these were largely composed of the better classes who had been temporarily thrown out of their ordinary employments, and I have been informed that the main cause of their dissolution was the want of recruits when more peaceful times came. EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 367 I have spoken more at length on this and the other two schemes, only because they have been so prominently brought forward, but I have _always thought them not only inapplicable but unnecessary. It does not look as though India had more European workmen than it needs, when they are still imported every year. The country has sufficient work for them all if they were only fitted for it; and the true remedy of their condition lies not in the invention of novel and forced modes of employment, to which they have never taken voluntarily, but in fitting them for those, which lie ready to hand, to which they and their fathers have been more or less used, and in which there is a constant demand for good workmen. To this I consider that the care and effort of the Government of India should be especially directed, and I will now mention how Huropeans may be employed with advantage both to themselves and their employers, and what is required to train them for such employ- ment: It is true that in all ordinary handicrafts and trades as they are pursued by the natives, Europeans could not earn a maintenance, but in many of them, if they had the skill and perfection of workmen in Europe, they would have little difficulty in earning a sufficient livelihood. Native work is generally so rough, and the demand for better work in all matters connected with house decoration, cabinet- making, furniture, painting, and the like, has become so much more general among the wealthier Europeans and natives, that many hundreds of European workmen might earn as skilled house-decorators, cabinet-makers, painters, upholsterers, &c., their fifty or sixty rupees a month, which is double or treble the sum which now serves as a maintenance in squalor and wretchedness to several thousands of poor Hast Indian families; but unfortunately very few either possess the requisite skill, or have the means and opportunities of acquiring it, and European work in these trades, being but little better, has no higher remuneration as a rule than native. Another occupation suitable for the same class, and especially for the orphan and indigent boys of inferior ability educated in free schools and orphanages, for whom there is now considerable difficulty in finding employment, is that of bandsmen, buglers and trumpeters, in native regiments. Before the mutiny many were so employed, and there is no reason why they should not be still employed in the same capacity. In 1879 an inquiry on the subject was addressed by the Government of India to Officers commanding native regiments, and out of the thirty-nine from whom answers were received twenty-nine were in fayour of this measure, some of these expressing also the 368 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. opinion that Europeans might be advantageously employed not only _ as musicians, but as farriers and armourers in native regiments. In this way suitable employment could be found for nearly two thousand Europeans of the poorer class. There is a still larger opening for European working men of a superior and more intelligent class as platelayers and drivers on the railways, as mechanical engineers, foremen and overseers in the Government factories and arsenals, the railway workshops, and in all manufactures and plantations where machinery is used. Hitherto these positions have been largely filled by mechanics imported at considerable cost from England, it being supposed that the requisite physique and mechanical skill are not to be found among the indigenous Europeans; but why should not lads born in India, of English or Anglo-Indian parentage, after being well taught and healthily matured in hill-schools up to the age of sixteen or seventeen, be apprenticed to their trades, take their fathers’ places, and save the importation of fresh and costly relays of English mechanics? Their labour would be cheaper in the first place, and in the second, if work is not found for them, they must become paupers; but the constant importation of fresh European labour lessens their present chance of work, and therefore tends to pauperize them in their own generation, while by adding year by year to the number of Europeans, who permanently settle in the country, and augment the natural increase of the community, it becomes a perennial. source of a wider pauperism in succeeding generations. Another occupation already followed very generally by Europeans, especially by the Eurasian section, is that of clerks in Government and mercantile offices, and of subordinates in the several departments of Government service. There is no reason to suppose that this form of employment will ever be closed to them, though they will probably have a greater competition with natives to contend against. This they must prepare themselves to meet, on the one hand by stricter economy to compensate for a possible reduction of salary, and on the other by superior ability and trustworthiness which shall give a higher value to their work. In some of the Government departments clerkships have been recently thrown open to competition with no distinctions between Europeans and natives ; probably this will become the general rule, and it will be necessary not only that the European youth should be as well prepared as the native, but that equal facilities for preparation should be afforded them by the Government. I am fully convinced that ample employment in one way or another would be available for EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 369 European lads of the working and lower middle class if they were properly qualified for it. It is the higher section of the middle class that has the greater reason to complain. Parents in India, as in England, are naturally unwilling that their sons should undertake employments which would throw them out of. their class, but all the better paid occupations available elsewhere to men of their class in England, and theoretically open to them in India, are practically closed against them in the latter country by one cause or another. In banks, mercantile offices, and on plantations the higher subordinate posts are generally filled by - young men appointed through personal interest from England. It is much the same in the mercantile marine for all positions above that of the ordinary seaman; while in all the higher grades of the civil, medical, telegraph, survey and forest departments, the Huropean youth of India are practically excluded by the regulation that the qualifying or competitive examinations admitting to them can only be prepared for and passed in England. Very few indeed of their parents can afford, in addition to the cost of educating them in India, the much greater cost of sending them to England for two or three years’ professional training, even with the certainty of success in the examinations, but still less with the chance of failure. There is but one exception to this rule, and that affording but little relief. In the Public Works Department eight appointments only have been reserved annually for the students of the Government Engineering College at Roorki, the rest being filled by young men educated at Cooper’s Hill College. And even this small boon has been made smaller by the order of 1882, that native students at Roorki, who had obtained a certain number of marks, should take the appointments before Europeans with a higher number, and that the latter should only be nominated to whatever appointments were left vacant after all the qualified natives had been placed. The order is all the more unjust from the proved average superiority of the European students, who, when tested by impartial competition, obtain five or six of the eight appointments. The injustice of this is most keenly felt, and it would have been almost less offensive to exclude Europeans from competition altogether, than to allow them to compete and succeed, yet rob them of the prize. The Bengal Pilot Service formerly open, was some years ago closed to country-born Europeans on the ground that they had not the general physique and temperament required, and never attempted to face the preliminary training necessary for a licensed pilot. But for a service necessitating a prolonged exposure to a tropical 29 370 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. sun, an Anglo-Indian or Eurasian, who has grown up in a hill school, is, on the score of general physique and temperament, perhaps even better qualified than boys of fifteen and sixteen fresh out from an English training ship, while he certainly cannot. be blamed for not facing a preliminary training, when there was no preliminary training given him to face. Were all such restrictions and disqualifications removed as those that I have mentioned, I consider that there is a sufficiency of employment for the European youth of every class; but that they may obtain it, they must first be made fit for it, and for this their peculiar position in India gives them, in my opinion, a strong claim for a. liberal measure of assistance which an English Government should be prompt to recognize. First and foremost of all they will need good schools in a good climate, as I have already stated. Help to maintain these, especially for the poorer class, they may reasonably ask from Government. Suitable native schools are provided by Government for all classes of the native population, and in them native boys receive at an almost nominal cost an education, which Huropean boys have to pay very dearly for, and more often than not cannot obtain at all on account of poverty. The native hoy, therefore, starts in the race for employment with a great advantage, and this inequality can only be adjusted by providing European boys with schools equally suitable to them at a cost equally within their means. Secondly, they will need schools or colleges, and a well-organized system of apprenticeship in the Government and Railway factories and workshops for their practical instruction as engineers and mechantes. A beginning has already been made in both these directions. In the Engineering School and College recently opened by the Government of Bengal at Calcutta, between fifty and sixty European youths are being trained as engineers and mechanics. But to the best of my knowledge this is the only institution of the kind in India. The principal railway companies have adopted a system of apprenticeship in their workshops, and the Government has done the same at Ajmir, the chief station of the Rajputana State Railway, but it has not been adopted, so far as I know, in any of the Government arsenals and factories, except at the Madras Gun-Carriage Factory. A more general and better organized system of apprenticeship, and additional mechanical and engineering colleges, would be the greatest benefit to the working class of Europeans in India, for without them the youth born and bred in © the country, can never be fitly trained for mechanical employments, and instead of sons following their fathers’ trades, and succeeding EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 371 to their fathers’ places, the constant importation of mechanics from England must still go on. | Thirdly, an industrial school for practical teaching in domestic trades and arts, decorative painting, cabinet-making, upholstery, &c., would open up these occupations to Huropeans on a new and remune- rative scale. Native convicts are taught in gaols to follow some trade by which they may, if they please, on their liberation, obtain an honest livelihood; so-called schools of art have been introduced for the improvement of native trades and manufactures requiring a higher artistic skill and proficiency; but no institution exists as yet, in India, for the improvement of Europeans in the trades especially suitable and profitable to them. Lastly, to remove the hardship which Europeans of respectable descent, character, and attainments have to bear in feeling themselves practically shut-eut from nearly all employment in the higher grades of the public service by the present restrictions, there should be Indian colleges in which young men, whether of Huropean or native descent, who are able to pay for their own education in them, and have been accepted by Government as morally and socially eligible, should be prepared for and pass the examinations qualifying them for the higher grades in the other departments of the service, as well as in that ‘i the Public Works only. Such colleges would be received as a great benefit by both races, and eventually would prove as great an advantage to the public service. Engineers who have passed from Roorki into the Public Works are not inferior to those who have been educated at Cooper’s Hill; and in one respect, being acclimatized to India, and acquainted with the people and their language and habits, they are preferable to officers whose first year or two of service are spent in learning the language and habits of the people, and not unfrequently are interrupted by sickness. I believe that in this respect the result would be found the same in other departments; and in other respects too, that the services of officers, whose homes are in India, would be found less costly than of those whose homes are in England. It is not to be denied that these measures will involve a consider- able outlay, but it is an outlay which will be richly recompensed by the benefit resulting from them, not only to the class whose condition they are designed to improve, but to the native population and to the Government. They will infuse through the whole European com- munity a spirit of hope, energy, and self-dependance, stimulate their industry and perseverance, and increase their working powers and usefulness to India. They will check the rapid growth of Huropean 29 * 372 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. pauperism by drying up its most abundant sources. Every year there will be a smaller out-turn of youths incapable of earning their living, and every year less need to augment by additional labourers from England, the natural increase of the indigenous Huropean population until it becomes largely in excess of the needs of India. It can be no wise policy anywhere to call in fresh labour, where there is a sufficient indigenous supply that needs only to be trained and utilized, but least of all is this wise with reference to Huropean labour in India. There, at least, there can be no possible doubt that not only will the benefit be greater of every effort made to train and utilize the European labour already in the country, but the outlay will be less, than to let it run to waste, and fill up the gap so caused by annual importations of English labourers whose children and descen- dants will remain in the country to multiply the nation, but not to increase the joy. For they, having no better lot than the rest, will add to its poverty, not to its wealth, and aggravate and extend the evil of European pauperism, bringing the day nearer when Lord Canning’s prophecy is fulfilled, and the Europeans of India shall have become ‘‘ a profitless and unmanageable community, a glaring reproach to the ‘* Government, and to the faith which it will, however ignorant and ‘‘ vicious, nominally possess.” Mr. J. E. HOWARD (Barrister, of Allahabad) : Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—As an introduction to other speakers I may perhaps give a very brief account of my experience of that part of India where this problem upon which the Venerable Archdeacon Baly has written so forcibly, so fully, and so unanswerably, is most pressing, and I may relate a few cardinal facts that have come within my own knowledge. This problem, which is commonly called the ‘‘ white problem,’’ is not of yesterday, or to-day; but it began, to the best of my recollection, about fifteen or sixteen years ago, so far as the north-west provinces are concerned. The north-west provinces of India, as some of you may not perhaps be aware, consist of a population of nearly forty millions of people. As railways extended throughout this vast province, naturally the number of LHuro- peans greatly increased; then came the question, how these Huropeans, many of whom came utterly friendless to this province, were to be dealt with. Within my own experience (and I speak from an experience now of over a quarter of a century in Allahabad itself, the capital of the north-west provinces) the good and true men who were in power there saw that it was necessary that something should be done. A Judge of the High Court, now the HUROPHAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 373 Chief Justice of Madras, Sir Charles Turner, was one of the most prominent to take the matter in hand, and the Allahabad Charitable Association was formed with the aid of other good men and true, and subscriptions were invited, and there was a small nucleus of money set apart for the purpose of dealing with this white problem. A set of apartments was hired near the city, where these unfortunate Europeans used to be housed and fed, and whenever employment could be got for them in the railway workshops they were supplied with employment. Whenever employment could not be got, inquiries were made through the Secretary of that Allahabad Charitable Association in other parts of India where employment could be had, and they were supplied with free passes to those places. I am glad, ladies and gentlemen, to see here two friends of mine, who will I doubt not bear out what I say with regard to this part of India; they are Dr. Pringle and Mr. Atkins, who is the Secretary of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants throughout the whole of India; those gentlemen will, Iam sure, endorse what I am about to say. I have just cast my eye upon them, and I am very glad to see that they are sufficiently true to that country from their labours in which they are now enjoying a brief respite, to have come here to take a part in this discussion. Well, ladies and gentlemen, to show you that there are some Englishmen true to their country and to their countrymen, whose hearts beat with a warm feeling for those of their countrymen who have fallen beneath the level which they once attained and in which they enjoyed a position, I will mention an instance in connection with this Allahabad Association which is touching in the extreme, and which I think is an honour to a man who is now a mere memory to us, but who once did the noble deed which I am about to relate. There was a man living in the wilds of the Himalayas who is known to us in that country as the Great Shikari, Mr. Frederick Wilson. He made a large sum of money by a contract for railway sleepers; he had not had much education ; he was a self-made man, but he had that English energy in him, and that desire to achieve an independence which I think is the spring of all true national greatness in man. He went to the Himalayas, and there by his own untiring industry, he made a fortune by going into the wild primeval forests, and hewing down the trees and becoming a railway contractor. When he heard that the Allahabad Charitable Association was doing this good work, and that it wanted funds—because we published an account of its resources and _ its expenditure in the Local Gazette—when he heard that this Association for the poor would require assistance, what do youthink hedid ? That 374 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. good man sent down in one single cheque £1000, that is to say ten — thousand rupees, with a short simple letter to the Secretary of the Association, after this style:—‘‘ When I passed through Allahabad “twenty-five years ago, a poor Huropean myself, without friends, a ‘“‘nerfect stranger in the land, I got assistance in that place myself, ‘*‘ which I have never forgotten, on my way towards the Himalayas. “T see now that the poor Europeans are themselves in need of “assistance, and I send you ten thousand rupees to be placed in your “‘funds, and the interest on which is to go towards the support and “help of those poor Europeans.” Now, Sir, I say that one instance in my experience, is of great hope and encouragement to us, because we have only to see that large class of independent Huropeans in India increase to find others who will follow the bright example set by Mr. Wilson. (Hear, hear.) I am now talking of merely concrete instances; but, ladies and gentlemen, I do not wish to detain you, because I know there are other speakers. I will give you my short experience in a few words, and it is this:—As the Venerable Arch- deacon has said, the problem is not intrinsically insoluble; that is a great mistake ; it is only insoluble because there is not at the back of it, what would make it easy of solution—viz. that practical interest in it amongst the English people, which would put that pressure upon the Government of India, that would make it solved in one day. I say this without exaggeration, because I have had very varied experience of India throughout all classes, I may say almost through- out all grades, and I know how easily it can be solved, if there is that interest taken init which would make the Government really take the matter in hand. As the Venerable Archdeacon has said, so far as the Government of India is concerned, we have had amongst our Lieutenant-Governors and amongst our Governors-general, creat and good men who felt the necessity for dealing with this question. But there is now a vast change. I am not going to enter into any political discussion, so none of you who may be political partisans need fear that Iam going to tread upon any dangerous ground; not at all; but Iam going to tread upon ground which I think will be felt to be common ground for us all; it is the common ground upon which alone this question can be solved ; it is this :—Within our experience we have seen that the leverage, that is to say the deter- mination of all these great questions which are now awaiting solution in India, has been transferred from India to England. Whether for good or for ill it must be recognized by everyone of us, that when anything that has been put forward in despatches as a proposal is to take shape in practical action, the voice, the pen, the signature that is EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 375 to put it into that shape, must come from the Secretary of State for India in Council; it must come from Downing Street; it must come from the vicinity in which we aré present at this time; and therefore, like all Government agencies, they deal only with questions which press for solution. Government now covers so wide a sphere that it is only those who are noisiest whose demands are heard first, and whose claims are attended to. It is unfortunately a very unhappy fact to recognize, but I wish you to recognize it to-day, because it is within the power of each of us to give facility and expedition to what has been put forward by our Venerable friend Archdeacon Baly to-day, as the question which presses for solution. Now, I wish to mention only one other fact and it is this—(it was just touched on briefly by my friend the Venerable Archdeacon. You yourselves, as practical politicians and statesmen, in your own way, will not require many words from me to show you how important this is) :—A commis- sion is now sitting to determine how best to develop India with regard to its railways and canals, and the proposal which has been almost insisted upon is that ten millions annually shall be spent on State railways, so that Indian wheat shall be brought to England, and in fact that India shall be the great wheat supplier of this great country. Now it does not require much imagination for any of us to see that if such a vast amount of money is to be spent annually to complete that network of State railways over the length and breadth of the land in order to feed these great arteries and to bring this vast quantity of wheat from India, the number of Europeans, and there- fore of Huropean poor, is sure to increase. I may mention that I myself came from India only two months ago with a gentleman who had been there for the express purpose of seeing all the local govern- ments in the Panjab, in the north-west, in Kurrachee, in Bombay, and in the course of discussing the question with him, he stated that he had then arranged with the Peninsular and Oriental Company for enormous quantities of wheat, thousands of tons, to be brought through that Company; so I say this matter which we are now dealing with is not in embryo; there are mercantile men, men of independence and enterprise, who are now making it a great practical question how to bring the great wheat supply of India to this country. If that be so, just think how this white problem will increase ; it will increase enormously, and unless we deal with it as I think we ought to, be sure that this evil will increase in terrible proportions ; and let not those who have rather a religious interest in India, and a political interest, than a feeling for their own countrymen, suppose that the Huropean problem in India is one-sided, or that you can cut it off at 376 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. one particular point just as you can cut off certain carriages in a railway train. No, that is not the way in which human affairs are. dealt with; that is not the way in which nature deals with us; we are all one, and you cannot cut off any particular section of us without injuring the remainder. Jetthose who have only a missionary interest in India, and who think that by sending European missionaries to the natives they are doing the utmost in their power for their good, and that they will achieve their ends and get to the bottom of this problem, disabuse their minds once and for all. Gentlemen, I assure you I am not speaking with any race prejudice for [am a member of an indepen- dent profession whose means come mostly from the natives of India, and I should be untrue to myself asa man if I did not feel the same interest in the natives of India as I do in the Europeans; but I feel, and I feel strongly, that the Europeans are not having a fair field ; that they are not only not having no favour, but that really they are the victims of great, though unintentional, injustice; and that they are the victims of that injustice because their countrymen in England will not take that deep interest in them which the powerful should always take in the helpless; and I say it with confidence, that those who look to the conversion of India while they neglect their poor white fellows are encouraging an idle dream, because not once but a thousand times have natives of India said to me when they have seen a poor white in the street an object of degradation and contempt, ‘‘ Look, there are the ‘results of your Christianity.” Thatmay be a very unjust reproach, but it is a common reproach ; this is what the world always does; if a member of any profession does a thing which is disgraceful, and the other members of his profession do not take notice of it and do not help him, and do not remove the stigma, it attaches to that profession itself. If we leave these Europeans in their degradation and will not come to their help, be sure that that stigma will extend itself to our faith, and that not only will we as their countrymen suffer, but the faith which we all love dearer than life will suffer most. (Cheers.) The CHAIRMAN : Ladies and gentlemen,—As I am now, I am sorry to say, obliged to keep another engagement, I will ask our friend, Mr. Elliot, to take the chair. Before leaving the chair, I wish to express my hope that the result of this afternoon’s proceedings may be some practical resolution to be embodied in a calmly and judiciously-worded memorial to the Secretary of State. Mr. J. EK. HOWARD: Before Sir Richard Temple leaves the EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 377 chair, I desire that we should record our sense of his interest in this _ problem which he has shown by taking the chair on this occasion, by, in anticipation, giving him a vote of thanks. I feel it is a matter of the greatest interest to us as Huropeans that persons who have acquired such wide experience as Sir Richard Temple has acquired in India in all the Presidencies, from the Panjab to Bombay, and down to Calcutta, should take part in discussions of this kind. The matter is of such overwhelming interest to us that I know of nothing else that can be weighed in comparison with it; and we should let such persons know that we value them beyond anything else on earth as far as this matter goes—that they are the levers through whom we can work these things; their kind interest in these matters is all-im- portant to us, and the fact that Sir Richard Temple has taken the chair here to-day isa matter of great encouragement to me person- ally. I hope that others will follow his good example. I beg to move a hearty vote of thanks to Sir Richard Temple for presiding to-day. (Cheers.) The motion was seconded by Mr. C. W. ARATHOON, and carried with applause. Sir RICHARD TEMPLE briefly returned thanks; and Mr. R. H. Elliot occupied the chair during the remainder of the proceedings. Dr. PRINGLE: Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—The gentleman who spoke last told us of his experience as a resident in India from an unofficial point of view, and I hope you will allow me an opportunity of saying a word or two from the official side, and especially from that of a medical officer who has had opportunities of forming an opinion such as few others can have on this very important subject. My experience has not been gathered in vice-regal Simla, or aristocratic Naini Tal, but in simple Mussoorie, where, perhaps, more of the Eurasians and Europeans spoken of in this paper are brought up than in other part of India, and it is there I have had an opportunity of seeing what a vastly important subject this is; and I am perfectly satisfied of one thing, and that is, that the kindest thing England can do to India, if it is not prepared to grapple with this subject, is positively—if not to forbid Huropeans going out to India at all—to take no steps to encourage their going. (Hear, hear.) In the old days of Indian Government they tell of an order being issued which required a mercantile firm that imported horses to secure the return of the grooms, or find them some suitable 378 BAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. employment, or lodge the money that will send them, if necessary, to their own country hereafter. Now, this is a very’serious question that we are taking up, and I call your special attention to the last page of the paper, where you will find the words of Lord Canning— “Clemency Canning,’ as he was called—and a fairer name was never - given to a human being. In the midst of the difficulties of our position in the Mutiny, God gave him grace to fill that very difficult position in which the Mutiny found him, and he earned the name of ‘Clemency Canning” by, in the midst of the most stern justice, remembering mercy ; and everything, therefore, that comes from him must be regarded as of great importance, especially on a subject like this. He warns us lest a time come when the Europeans in India shall have become ‘‘a profitless and unmanageable community,” and, he might have added, a dangerous community. They are increasing, and the worst of it is that all the best of them are leaving the country. The best engine-drivers and the best men working in the railway shops are leaving the country. I heard, only a short time ago, of one leaving Saharanpur, an engine-driver, one who always drove an important express train, a man who could be always depended upon, always steady and sober and ready to take up his duties at any time; on being asked why he was leaving a good appointment, he said, “‘ India is not a place for my children to be “brought up in,’ and he left the country and went to Australia. That is where the secret of this mischief lies. Now there are three points brought out in this paper as “ possible remedies for the present ‘unsatisfactory state of matters.’ One is colonization in the hills. Well, the sooner we get rid of that idea the better, because there never can be any such thing as European colonization in the hills or any- where else in India. I have been for twenty years at Mussooree, and I have had considerable experience. If your notion of colonization is this: that a married man is to take up a bit of ground, and have his sons to help him, and the old adage is to be realized that, ‘‘ The ‘‘happier he the more (sons) he has” if only he will wait a little longer; if that is what you mean by colonization, then I say India is not the place for it, for no European can hope to contend successfully as regards labour with the natives of the Himalayas, and certainly never with those in the Plains. As I have remarked to medical officers, when alluding to this subject, you may make as many post- mortems as you like, but you will never be able to settle this subtle difference between the European and native, viz. that a native can work under a tropical sun, nay, at times, bask in the mid-day sun, whereas, when the European attempts to do the same, he is struck HUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 379 down by the sun, and if he recovers, has to leave India as an electric light mechanic had to do the other day from Baroda, if he hopes to regain his health. We are not indigenous to the country, and’as I told a Parsee a short time ago (and which I think I mentioned at the last meeting), ‘‘ We are the head, you are the hands,” and it must be so. I do not know where you are to try this colonization experiment ; personally I do not know much about the Madras Presidency or Ootacamund, but I can speak, and speak positively as to the Himalayas and the Dehra Dhoon. I have walked down a hillman after a long walk, but that was along a high ridge on the Himalayas, and all above 7000 feet. Look at the Dehra Dhoon,if anything were to be done by Huropean labour you would think it could be done in the Dehra Dhoon, but it is impossible; you cannot compete at all with the natives. The Venerable Archdeacon suggests trades and certain handicrafts, such as cabinet-making. That I can’settle at once. I hope I do not speak too dogmatically or too strongly, because this is an important subject, and it is far better that we should cut away anything like a doubtful platform on which to stand ; but when you talk about decora- tion and upholstery and.so on, I think I can speak for most stations in the North-West Provinces and Oudh, that there is no money to buy such things—(laughter)—tempora mutantur, and the pockets have got emptied in the change. (Laughter.) Then the Venerable Archdeacon speaks of the proposal to export the supposed surplus Huropean and Hurasian population to Australia and New Zealand. Well, I think more favourably of that; and if this present surplus could be removed to parts of the world where they can find suitable employment, it would be most advantageous. ‘'hen, as to their formation into regiments ; well, speaking plainly (and it is best to be perfectly plain), I donot.think in the case of Hurasians the requisite physique is forthcoming to an extent which would hold out any prospect of success under this head. You might take the Europeans and make a separate local corps of the men who pass a certain standard (and it should be a high standard) of medical examination, men with a good physique, and make them, after having trained them into good shots (many will want but little train- ing), into a corps of mounted infantry, and with their local knowledge and endurance they would be a very powerful force ; but as for draft- ing them into the army, I think that would be a mistake. Then about the little bugler boys. I knew one of them, poor Macinlay, who only escaped certain death from the mutineers of the 38rd Bengal Cavalry, by hiding under the arch of the bridge over the Aboo Nullah at Meerut, but before he thought of himself, he saved the lives of his officers, among whom was Colonel, then Lieutenant Webster, 380 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. by warning them to avoid the Begum’s bridge, as he had over- heard the troopers say they would guard that bridge and kill the Sahibs if they tried to get into the European cantonments that way. Well, a few of these boys may be of use that way, but the Govern- ment have effectually stopped secret and wholesale hatching of treason by putting in a variety of castes into the regiments and companies. But, ladies and gentlemen, believe me, the importance of this subject it is impossible for me to over-estimate. (Hear, hear.) Talk of local self-covernment, the subject discussed at the last meeting! Well, if that is of vital importance to our native fellow-subjects, this is of equal importance to the European subjects of the Queen in India, and I hope Dr. Leitner has heard of the sudden collapse of the attempt to start local self-government in Delhi, one of his pet places in the Panjab. Here the latest news states that the Govern- ment have been obliged to postpone passing that measure sine die, because the antipathies between the Mohammedans and the Hindus are so great—as if they are likely to be able to name a time when this antipathy will cease! I repeat, this is a most important subject, and I assure you it is with very great pleasure that I see my friend Mr. Howard here speaking as he has done, and Mr. Atkins. They represent a great interest, and I do trust that whatever is decided upon here there may be no half measures. As to what the Venerable Arch- deacon says about the Roorkee examinations, the picture is not overdrawn. Let me read you what The Pioneer says on the 2nd January last :—‘‘ From the results of the examination for entrance “to the Engineer Class at the Thomason College, Roorkee, it appears “that out of twenty-one candidates sixteen have qualified in all ‘‘ subjects, and have, therefore, the option of entering the college on “the Ist of May, 1884. Altogether six Europeans or EHurasians pass, ‘‘as against ten natives, and their chance of employment under ‘“‘Government may be gauged from the following official notification : ***Tt must be clearly understood that only four appointments to the ‘“‘ public works are guaranteed in 1886’ ”’—(a hopeful prospect indeed !)—‘‘ ‘ and that Asiatics who have been born and educated else- ‘where than in the Provinces of Madras, Bombay, and Bengal, have ‘prior claim to these appointments’”—(I am not quite sure where these people are to be born; there is a little ambiguity about that)— “also that the Government can hold out no hope whatever of ‘‘employment in the Public Works or any other department to any “student of the Engineer Class who shall fail to obtain one of these “appointments.’’’? A hopeful prospect truly for the Roorkee student! And as regards this class of people, I can positively state that the EHUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 381 European has no chance of competing against the native, owing to the reductions in salary and the late orders of the Government on the subject. It is far better that we should look the thing straight in the face. There was a pensioned Deputy-Collector who had educated his sons for Government service like that which he had held, but he told me he had to accept a clerkship in a brewery for one on Rs. 50 per mensem. Now in this case the sons were well-educated, and the father had practised the greatest self-denial to secure a good education for his sons, and now in his old age he feels the Government have not dealt with him as a long and faithful service gave him some claim to expect. Well, it is not that we want to be hard on the natives. I have served thirty years in India, and have ample proof that the natives know me and will not charge me with doing that which would be unfair to them. I may say that I started a voluntary scheme of vaccination among them in the Agra and Meerut Division, and now Syed Ahmed Khan of Alighur has carried through the Council a compulsory vaccination law, which has been extended to Calcutta, Madras, and Bombay, under certain conditions. This will show, I think, that I must have known something about them, and they must have had some confidence in me. It was Sir George Cooper himself, I think (speaking under correction), who at one of the meetings of the High Schools at Allahabad, said that he hoped there would be some higher ambition among the young men in the school than simply to occupy the desk of aclerk. But wherein was this ambition to lie, and at what was it to aim? In the police? No. The door is shut and fastened by a Chubb’s lock, and there seems no way of getting in. Yet thatis just the place where active Europeans are wanted. Who are the two best Huropean police-officers in the North-West ProvincesandOudh? Ifwe may judge by promotion and the nature of the duties on which they are often deputed, I fancy they are to be found among those who did not enter the Police Depart- ment through the army ; as they were never in the army. Then how did they come inP In one case that I know of, the necessities of the Government in the time of the Mutiny, they had to push their way up, and they have pushed it up by downright honest and faithful work to the high position they now hold. Now, who are the superior subordinate police-officers in many large cities? The answer is in numbers superior to relative proportion to the Hindu undoubtedly Mohamedans. Well, it is a principle of the Mohamedan religion to serve their religion first, whenever there is a doubt on the subject, and what is the consequence ? There was scarcely a mosque or “ place of ‘prayer’? in India where public prayers were not offered for the 382 | EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. success of Arabi Pasha, and I know of one place in particular where this occurred, and the police were there at the time; but nothing was reported of it. I mentioned this to the superior officer myself when he doubted the statement, and added, “Why one of your senior ‘subordinate Mohamedan officers was there at the time,” and remarked that though they were government servants, they were Mohamedans also and servants of the prophet, and their co-reli- gionists were safe from any report by them. It is specially selected trustworthy Europeans that are wanted in the Police, and the time may come when their absence will be felt and cannot be supplied. As I said before, if something is not to be done, better it would be, and a kinder thing to say to those asking for advice on the point, Do not go out to India at all. -(Cheers.) Mr. F. T. ATKINS: Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—I am very glad to be here to-day, and I am also glad to be able to say that there is a feeling existing among Englishmen in England on this subject. It has been my very good fortune to be able to be present at some meetings recently where hundreds have been in attendance. Last Tuesday I chanced by privilege to be at one where there were eight hundred sturdy north countrymen present, who fully agreed that this was a most important question, interesting not only to the people of India, but also to the people in Hngland. They understand it from the point of view the Venerable Archdeacon has shown us in his paper. The English artisan or engine-driver who may go out to India at the present time under an agreement with the Secretary of State for service on the State railways there, or in other of the industries that the State has established, go out at a salary at which it must take them a great many years to ensure their obtaining anything like a sufficiency to return to Hngland, and enjoy their old days in comfort. If they commit the crime (for crime it almost appears to be) of marrying and having children in that country, and spend sufficient to give them a fair education, their resources are gone; and, after all, there is no opening for their children, the future is a hopeless blank. I speak, gentlemen, from twenty years’ experience in India, a very large proportion of that experience being on Indian railways ; I commenced my life in India as a fireman on a railway, and served in various capacities on railways for overten years. There is not a railway in India I am not acquainted with, and know the condition and views of the men employed upon them. I took up this subject in 1876, not as a party question, not as an English question solely, but because I believe that unless more consideration is EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDLA. 383 displayed for the poor Europeans in India, and the privileges allowed natives by the Government are extended to them, a very bitter race feeling will be created. English working-men that are in India feel as much sympathy for the natives of that country as many Englishmen in England do; and the organization which Mr. Howard has been pleased to tell you I am connected with is thrown open for admission to the natives of the country the same as it is to Europeans. The European working-men are desirous of benefiting their dusky fellow- subjects just as much as they are desirous of benefiting themselves. Therefore when I speak of these matters I trust that you will not think that I wish to advance the interests of one class or race at the expense or to the injury of another class or race. Ido maintain this, that the subject that is before the meeting is a most important one. Your countrymen, and the descendants of your countrymen, who are domiciled in India, are not receiving fair play, and it is that fair play, those equal rights, that they ask, and that they feel they are justified in asking. They do not ask for anything more than that. They say, and I think they say very fairly, Give us the same privileges that you afford to natives in the country; you do not give us the same advantages in the matter of education; we are excluded from the Inland Customs, we are excluded from the Police Department, we are practically excluded from the training college at Roorkee, which was instituted for us as well as for the Asiatic subjects of Her Majesty; we are excluded, as the Venerable Archdeacon has already told you, from the Bengal Pilot Service, where in years gone by some sixty of us served with honour and credit, and some of us rose to the highest branches of the profession, and we are almost entirely excluded from the uncovenanted services. What hope is there really for these people if they are to be excluded from all appointments, and if there is no education whatever given to them. It has been said by the Government of India, in fact it was said by the present Viceroy in reply to a memorial I sent to him myself on this subject, and to which attention has been drawn this afternoon, regarding the importation of labour into India, that there was an insufficiency of skilled and unskilled Huropean labour in India to meet the requirements of the various railway services. Now, Mr. Chairman, it so happens that the association with which I am connected has gained some degree of popularity owing to the very excellent character of its members, and as a consequence, when officials belonging to some of the various railways required men, they very frequently send to me to obtain them. During the Afghan war, when a large amount of labour was required for service on the railways in Northern India, I received 384. EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. among other communications applications from the superintendents there asking me to send men. [ did send them until they told me to stop, and in fact said that I had sent actually more than were required. JI mention this as an answer to the statement made in the reply to my memorial to the present Viceroy. Shortly after the Afghan war was over, the railways I had supplied found they had more men than they required to work their lines, and a reduction took place ; several were dismissed, but the best men were, of course, retained— and they were good men, too, very good men; in fact the superin- tendent of one particular line in the north of India said he believed he had got the flower of the railway men in India. About six or eight months (I cannot be sure to a month or two) after the Afghan war was over, a number of men were imported into India from England, and most of the other men, who had such exceptionally good charac- ters, were dismissed ; they were thrown out of employment, and had to get their livelihood as best they could; some of them, to my certain knowledge, though they were good men, were seven months out of work before they could get anything to do. It is not fair that any Government should act in a manner that will tend to pauperize its subjects. If we are to govern India wisely and well, we must pay some attention to all classes and all grades, no matter whether they be black or white; we must be fair and impartial to all of them. This arbitrary treatment presses very hard upon your countrymen and their descendants ; there is a feeling beginning to rise that they are not rightly treated. The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Roperr H. Eniior): May I ask why those men were discharged ? Mr. ATKINS: To make way for the men brought out from England. The CHAIRMAN: But what was the reason why these men were dismissed ? Mr. ATKINS: Because the State could not afford to keep them and the men from England; they would have more men than they actually required. The CHAIRMAN: But how came it about that they wrote for more men ? Mr. ATKINS: That is what I cannot understand. EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 385 The CHAIRMAN: That would be very important for the meeting to understand. Mr. ATKINS: That is a mystery; no one can understand that. I may mention that this action of the Government was petitioned against ; it was owing to these men being dismissed that the petition T alluded to was sent up to the present Viceroy; but we never could get a satisfactory reply, and no one knows to this day ; but of course we naturally assume that the men were dismissed to make way for those that were brought from England. Mr. HOWARD: If my friend, Mr. Atkins, will excuse me one moment, I think he is so intent upon his argument that he does not quite follow the drift of the Chairman’s question, and as there are a ereat many people here to whom it would be of the greatest interest to bring out the point, perhaps I may be allowed to suggest the answer to Mr. Atkins. If lam right, he can confirm me, and if not, he can correct me. The point, Mr. Chairman, is this: that the Government of India, during the Afghan war, when a very sudden emergency arose, really wanted men very badly indeed, and were glad enough to apply to Mr. Atkins, as the Secretary of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants, to get the cream of what India could supply. When the emergency was over, and they thought they could economize their expenditure by getting other men from England, they dismissed the older men and put in their places the men they brought from this country. Is that right, Mr. Atkins P Mr. ATKINS: Yes, that is perfectly right. Butas no economy was effected, the treatment the men engaged in India received cannot be characterized as fair or honourable, and the fact that after their dismissal they could not obtain employment for months disposes of the assertion made by Government, that there is insufficient skilled and unskilled European labour in India for the requirements of the country. But facts, when embodied in petitions submitted by Europeans in India to the Government, do not receive the attention they deserve. I sent a memorial to Lord Northbrook when he was Governor-General of India; several thousand signatures were attached to it. It reviewed the question we are now discussing, and contained several suggestions ; it was also accompanied by a census of all the unemployed men, at least so far as 1 could ascertain the number, ‘throughout India; but I am sorry to say that it met with the fate that petitions generally meet with—it was merely acknowledged, and that 7 350 386 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. was all we ever heard of it. This disregard for their grievances, and the treatment their petitions have received, is considered by the petitioners to be grossly unjust. ‘Their grievances have been inten- | sified, and when men have a real grievance and are brooding over it, as these people are, some redress must be afforded, for it is not wise to allow that condition of things to continue. We know very well that there is sometimes danger in it, and I will venture to say that if there is not some redress afforded for the grievances which the descendants of domiciled Englishmen in India labour under, there may be some- thing unpleasant arise. It is quite possible, it is quite in the natural order of things. Now, with reference to the readiness of these men to work when they can obtain employment, I may mention here, that some twelve months-ago, before I left India, a vacancy existed for a guard on the Madras Railway. The Government of India had for some time past been urging this particular railway to employ more natives, and as the salary attached to the vacancy was only Rs. 20 per month, or taking the par value of the rupee, only ten shillings per week, it may be thought that few Huropeans would be found among the applicants. Not so; there were no less than two hundred Huropean applicants for the situation. That shows that the people we are talking about to-night are ready and willing to work if they can get work todo. I - am connected with a printing establishment where we have a number of these people, who are employed at low salaries, successfully com- peting with native workmen. In the town of Madras you will find men ready to work for eight and ten rupees a month, and glad to get the work to do, but the Government has, by a series of resolutions, excluded them from the advantages it gives to natives. The native who desires to undergo a course of study in England receives from the Government a free passage to England and back to India with a subsistence allowance. ‘These advantages are not obtainable by the son of the poor Huropean. This is a question that concerns every Englishman, because, unfortunately, [am afraid that unless we get British public opinion on our side very little indeed will be done. I venture to say this, because in a recent interview I had with the official who controls Indian affairs, I asked him if there was any likelihood of either him or his Council considering this subject. I said, ‘‘ Do let ““me send out word to these people that their condition and their ‘“‘orievances will be discussed, and that some consideration will be ‘shown to them;”’ and the reply that I received I shall never forget as long as I live; it was this: “I will not hold out a hope that ‘‘ will never be realized.”? Although I was not born in India, I have lived long enough there to feel for these people, and the thrill that EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 387 passed through meat the time I cannot describe. I was glad to see Sir Richard Temple here to-day, because he was the first president at the inauguration of the Anglo-Indian Association, and presided over that Association when it met at Calcutta. Iwas glad to see him here, and I feel sure that the kind words that he expressed this evening will not rest in mere utterance, but that his sympathy will be practically displayed, so as to convince the poor Europeans in India that there is after all really some hope for them. (Cheers.) Mr. HYDE CLARKE: Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,— Apart from the powerful statement made by the venerable gentleman who has addressed the meeting, my attention has been attracted by the description that was given by Mr. Howard, from Allahabad, and by Mr. Atkins, from Delhi, of the Friendly Associations. In The Times to-day you will find something in reference to that help which the Archdeacon seeks for carrying out his purpose. You will find a leading article and a description from The Times correspondent in America of a meeting which is to be held in Chicago of a convention which is called of the St. George’s Societies of Canada and the United States. The description which has been given of the working of the Associations in India is identical with that of the working of the Associations which have been established on the North American Continent for about one hundred years for the assistance of poor Englishmen. However, there, instead of being simply in the nature of chance, eleemosynary institutions, they are strictly national institutions; they are all called St. George’s Societies, for the purpose of keeping up and evoking an English feeling. Now I take it that in India, though there are the St. Andrew’s Societies and the St. Patrick’s Societies, there is nowhere, not even in the Presidency of Fort St. George at the present moment, any permanent or temporary commemoration on the 28rd April, St. George’s Day, of English national feeling, or more properly, of the common nationality of English, Scotch, Irish and English-speaking people. I know the difficulties of this matter, because I represent here not only that large Association on the North American Continent as the Corresponding Secretary, but I happen to be Chairman of the St. George’s Society we have here. We shall be very glad to assist our friends in India in the same way that we are assisting Lady Jane Taylor in the matter of the Women’s Emigration Society in connection with H.R.H. the Marchioness of Lorne. There must be a cultivation of Hnglish feeling, and when I say English feeling understand me to mean it in the pure sense of the section which is seated in the sovereign 30 * 388 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. ° part of this island. We have begun now to understand the phrase which has become familiar to you, that we are no longer to speak of | Anglo-Saxons, but we are to speak of a common nationality of English- speaking people, whether of one race or another, whether born-here or elsewhere, whether Siberians, Hindoos, Parsees or Anglo-Chinese —of the hundred millions who speak the English language throughout the world. It is by adopting the same organization as that adopted by our friends on the North American Continent that it appears to me we may in one shape (not neglecting any others) promote the objects which the Archdeacon has laboured for for so many years. Mr. Atkins, I dare say, has felt the want of it; he feels it here. Whatever may be the wants of those in India, it is (unfortunately perhaps rather than fortunately) by making an impression on public feeling in this country that we must accomplish our objects. With regard to the general question, I might have been induced to speak more at length if time had allowed. I believe it is from my Report, a generation ago, in conjunction with Colonel Whitham, on the Electric Telegraph system in India, in the time of the old Company, that the government of India is enabled to be carried on from the Hills. In 1858, I obtained through the late William Ewart a Committee of the House of Commons to inquire into Hill Settlements in India. That committee, on the evidence of all the great statesmen who ruled over India, enforced the principle which has _ been brought out by the ~ Venerable Archdeacon, viz. that every means should be adopted for utilizing the healthy climates of the Hills in order to maintain in a good condition the European population of India. At one time, before I myself went to the East, I obtained from the Government an admission that one-fifth of the European. troops should be placed in Hill cantonments; you know, however, the outcome of that: the cantonments were never built, and the consequence is that a measure so easy and so simple has never been carried out. As to the remarks of Dr. Pringle, I think it hardly ~ mecessary to say one word in exculpation of myself in that respect ; neither I nor any sensible man ever proposed to put into any part of India English Colonies in the sense that we have Colonies in Australia or Canada. Many of us have at times thought that if the army were to a great extent quartered in the Hills it would not only benefit India by our troops being in a better condition, physically and mentally, but that it would tend to foster the agricultural, pastoral, forestry and commercial activity of those parts. I was enabled last year before the Statistical Society to give a quarter of a century’s report on the progress which had been made. My learned friend who comes from HUROPHAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 38) Masoorie perhaps gave us too unfavourable a picture, I mean judging from his own experience of his own region; but I think if he were to take in the whole range of what he calls the Hills, and look at tea- planting—that is one 1tem—and further, look at the commerce with the countries beyond his range, he would see that even the Hills have resources which are capable of being turned to some greater account even than now. The subject is one of the greatest importance. We must all regret that Sir R. Temple has left without speaking; he has dealt with this subject in another shape, and he has. placed it on its right footing. We are in India, it is true, as conquerors; but historically India for ages and ages before history has been under the dominion of conquerors asnow. Manya wild hill tribe long subjected represents some former sovereignty. Our position is that, we have done more than all of them to give peace, prosperity and freedom to India as against those conquerors who had devastated the country, and would, had they the chance, devastate it still. It is not necessary to enlarge upon that, but it is perhaps necessary in these days when we hear such unhistorical nonsense as ‘‘ India for the Indians,” when there are no Indians in such a sense. (Laughter.) India is an accumulation of dissimilar and hostile populations in a vast region and not an undivided nationality. It is time that we should ask some fair play and some fair reward for our own countrymen, who are carrying out for India and for us that work in the progress of civilization. (Cheers.) It certainly is desirable if it could be done that an appeal should be made to the people of this country, if only for one thing, to give the des- cendants of our poor fellow-countrymen in India, in common with every native who so desires it, the opportunity of learning that greatest of living languages which is their heritage, and which is in itself one of the mighty instruments of culture and civilization, a title to fraternity with the citizens of the free nations, and a potent means of promoting political liberty and the highest morality. (Cheers.) Captain PFOUNDES, r.r.a.s.: Mr. Chairman,—I think it would be of interest to the Venerable Archdeacon and those who are so fortunate as to have heard his able and interesting paper if I made it known that it is not such a very difficult matter, as many suppose, to stir up public opinion in England; Mr. Atkins has had experience of that, in the provinces especially ; and I can speak more particularly about London, that since these Indian questions have come before the public, there has been no lack of interest; and audiences, not exclusively of the educated or upper classes, but of genuine working- men—not only Conservative, but also Radical and Liberal—have been 390 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. thoroughly astounded when the bare facts have been brought before them, even when couched in the most moderate language. If a crusade was well-organized by gentlemen thoroughly well up in the subject, and able to go before an audience of intelligent, hard-headed working men and other classes in this country, and put before them the actual facts of the position of Englishmen, and descendants of Englishmen, in India and the Hast beyond the Ganges, it would lead to something lke fair justice and fair play being done to our countrymen abroad. I speak on this matter feelingly, and very strongly, because some of the best years of my life have been spent in the far Hast, doing my best to promote the interests of the natives for whom I toiled, and thought, and now speak and write on behalf of. There is no one more alive than I am myself to the position of the natives in regard to this question, and that also of our own countrymen. No one can deplore more than I do the fact that many of my own countrymen, with whom I have been in contact with abroad, have given very considerable groundwork for many of the complaints which are made. But notwithstanding this, there is still the fact, that we cannot put the Huropean beneath the Asiatic: were we to do so we should affect the whole basis of intercourse, of credit, and commerce, and the best. interests of this country. Residents have already to contend with numerous real dangers and difficulties in Hastern countries, and if to them be added greater dangers, in consequence of the way in which matters are now drifting, I can assure you that it will end in the utter ruin of our Indian and far Hastern trade. This matter is of the utmost moment to people here at home, not only to investors and capitalists and manufacturers, but it will also come home to those horny-handed sons of toil, who are just now so much be-petted and patted on the back, because it will affect their earnings in a very great measure. If this paper produces any impression practical steps should be at once initiated to enlighten the bulk of the voting-power of England on these questions, and our Indian fellow-subjects will consequently have something like a chance that a meed of justice will be accorded to them eventually. Mrs. ROBERT CLARK (Umritsar, Panjab): Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—I am much interested in this subject, and I have always felt that we have quite as important a work to do among the poor whites and Hast Indians as among the natives. I have had a great deal to do with these people in the Panjab, and I set apart rooms in my house for the purpose of taking in poor Huropeans in destitute circumstances. Many such cases I was able EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 391 to shelter and get work for; I remember one poor fellow who had lost his wife, and was himself in a dying state, walked all the way up from Lucknow to Umritsar with his little girl, a baby, in his arms, saying, that though he only knew me by name, he should die happy if he might put his child in my care.’ I have had constantly brought home to me the sad position of the poor women and girls. There are attempts at station schools here and there, but as a general rule Hast Indian and Huropean girls are too poor to pay for any education, and those whose parents are not utterly indifferent are sent to the convents, where they have little or nothing to pay, and where the teachers can afford to teach gratuitously. But convent education and voluntary efforts do not nearly provide for the educational needs of this ever- increasing class. No doubt the two Martiniere schools, the Mayo ' and Bishop Cotton’s school at Simla, are doing noble work, but we could fill many more such institutions by drafting into them the hundreds of neglected children who swarm in the bazaars and outskirts of our stations, and live in close and debasing contact with the lowest class of natives and camp-followers. - At one time I-helped Mrs. David Ross, of Lahore, in the Railway School she has established at Mussoorie, and I had much opportunity of noticing and deploring the sad influences to which these ‘Hnglish”’ children were exposed when the parents could not give ‘needful care and supervision. I have this matter very much at heart, and I shall be glad to aid in any way in my power, either by lecturing or writing, in awakening public opinion to practical and intelligent effort in educating and opening out means of livelihood to the children of Anglo-Indians and Kast Indians who have indeed a “bitter cry’’ against the neglect and indifference of years, which have fostered idleness and dependence among a.community which is capable of better things. I am perfectly agreed with Mr. Howard that the present state of things does not ~ commend Christianity to the natives, and that in common justice as well as self-interest we are bound to consider the wants of our poorer brethren and fellow-Christians. Dr. PRINGLE: Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—I can quite endorse what has been said by the lady who has just spoken, and I am particularly glad that a lady, so well-qualified from practical knowledge and personal observation to speak on the subject, has given to the people of this country, through this meeting, such a faithful picture of the condition of the poor European women, who either now are, or may hereafter be, the subjects of this “‘ Huropean Pauperism.” The lot of the vast majority of these poor women is 392 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. indeed a hard one, and though a certain amount of this misery may be due to improvident habits, yet by far the greater portion of it is due to circumstances over which they have no control, such, for instance, as their husbands by reduction being put out of employ, with nothing, in too many cases, but what is in the house, and a few months’ salary, in the form of gratuity, to meet, it may be, not weeks, but months, or even a year, the trials of being out of employment. I have known Europeans in India reduced to such a state of poverty — that when I have been attending the mother of a family, at a time when comfort was wanted, the discomforts were so great that I myself caught a very sharp attack of rheumatism, owing to un- avoidable draughts and exposure. So you will understand to what conditions they are often reduced. But if the mother’s lot is hard, that of the children as regards their future prospects is harder, and when we think how much of the future of these children depends upon their early rearing, one ceases to wonder at the sickly children one meets with in the plains, and how it can be otherwise than that they should soon swell the numbers of European paupers. To relieve this present distress and future misery one should see the happy, healthy children in the Railway School at Fair Lawn in Mussoorie, collected by that good and kind-hearted lady, Mrs. Ross, who is an honour to womanhood for her labours on behalf of the poor children in the Railway Barracks on the Scinde, Panjab and Delhi Railway; and while the accommodation at Fair Lawn should be greatly increased, I cannot help feeling that every railway company in India should have a similar school in the Hill station nearest to their Central Offices—and every facility afforded for the conveyance of these children, from the stations in Central India over other than their own lines, as everything which tends to improve the health and physique of these children most certainly reduces the risk of their adding hereafter to the European pauperism in India. To any one who has noticed the rapid improvement in health witnessed. in the case of these children, after even a short stay at this Hill school at Mussooree, the wonder will be, how it is that the Scinde, Panjab and Delhi Railway is the only large Railway Company which avails itself of the benefits and adyantages so near at hand. While speaking to a member of the Indian Council a short time ago on the subject of Hill stations, I remarked that from my twenty years’ experience of the Hill station of Mussooree and the Convalescent Depot of Landour, as also of the Military Hill station of Chuckrata. I was perfectly satisfied that India could be as securely held, with half the number of European troops, if their physical condition was HUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 393 improved, and the climate, and hence beneficial effects of the Hima- layas taken advantage of to the full, and I may add that, while we are doing what we can to carry the wheat to the seaboard by railways, we were neglecting what was of far more importance, carrying the - European troops to the Hills,—not as we are now doing, viz. taking a few, very few of them there in April, and leaving them till October, because there was no transport service suitable for troops in the hot and rainy weather, and yet one-half of the convalescents at a Hill station got all the benefit they were likely to get in the first two months of their stay ; and while others might have been sent to benefit by the change, this difficulty of transport steps in, and those in the Hills must remain there, and it may be lose in health, while those in the plains, if they survive the hot and rainy seasons, will have fully qualified for the invaliding committee at the end of the year, and thus soldiers are lost to India, who might, with care, have been saved for further service ; leaving out of the question the men thus sent home to Britain to add to those requiring State support. The last Afghan war showed what a British Regiment resident for a year in the Hills can do, as also how those sent from the sickly stations of the plains, -who, with the desire to work, wanted the physical power to do it, and thus rapidly fell victims to disease and exhaustion. To say troops cannot be moved in the hot and rainy season, is to forget India was won in 1857 during that time, and a system of Military Railways to the Hills, wnder careful supervision, would admit of troops being moved at any time either to the Hills or from them to the plains in the case of emergency, and what was applicable for troops, was equally so for the Europeans in railway employ. Mr. R. F. CHISHOLM (P. W. D., of Madras): Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—I have worked with natives, Europeans and Kurasians, and I can safely say that the Europeans and the Hurasians will never hold place against the natives until they are properly educated, as suggested by Archdeacon Baly. Take for instance any common handicraft; the native boy is apprenticed to his father from the time he can take a hammer in his hand. By the time he is ten years old, he is a very fair workman, and at twenty he is an experienced man. The unfortunate Eurasian or European on the other hand, up to the age of fifteen, has been picking up some scanty technical education wherever he can; and usually at that age he has to compete with this native youth who is already a trained artizan, and even if the Kuro- pean or Hurasian were clever, and able and willing to learn, where could he gain technical education in India? ‘There are no Huropeans 304 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. there capable of teaching handicrafts as they are practised here in England, and unless they are practised in India with equal perfection, there is little chance that they will hold their place against importa- tions. There is no reason whatever why it should be so. If you educate the European in India as he should be educated, it would at once stop importations. But I cannot help thinking myself that it is to the interest of England that the arts and manufactures of India should not progress. (Laughter). I cannot understand the present position unless we come to such a conclusion. I have been in India for twenty-five years, and during the whole of that time I know that the Supreme Government, the Local Government, and indeed every one connected with Government in India, earnestly desire to encourage the art and manufactures of India in every possible way; and yet what is the result—what are the actual facts ? I will explain the position to you as well as I can by giving you facts connected with the South of India with which I am well acquainted. Sir George Birdwood published a very valuable book on the arts and manufactures of India. . In that book we have illustrations of two of the principal arts in the south of India, the Madura historical pottery and the Tanjore metal-work. Being anxious to possess articles so unique and so beautiful, I visited Tanjore and Madura; I made all inquiries at the latter place about this art, which Sir George Birdwood illustrates in his book, and I could not get a single article. The art had died out completely : there was not aman there manufacturing anything of the kind. Disappointed I went to Tanjore, for, said I, at least I will obtain some metal-work ; after some considerable difficulty I got a piece of metal-work, and I had to wait three months, during which'five men—you can count them on the fingers of one hand — were producing this specimen of an art which was to astonish the world. Now these are not, mind you, experimental arts; they are the “indigenous arts of the country.” To quote Sir George Birdwood’s own words: ‘“‘ they are the arts handed “down from father to son through countless generations, and applied “with that unerring skill which only traditional art can give!” (Laughter.) Now, here is the Government doing everything it can, and expending money freely, to foster the very thing which is languishing and perishing before its eyes! There must be something wrong somewhere. Where is it, and what is—that something? I think I know where it is, and what itis, but being a Government servant I have not that liberty of speech which an outsider would have; I would at least venture to hope that the policy which has been pursued by the advisers of Government for the last ten or fifteen years in the arts and manufactures of India may receive attention, and that they | HUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA. 395 may pause and consider what it is leading to in the face of the facts I have narrated ; they certainly are not encouraging the arts and manu- factures of India.. When you actually succeed in doing this you will open up a field for all your labour in India, and you can employ not only all the Europeans in the country, but ten times that number; at the same time it must never be forgotten that every plate made in India, every yard of cloth manufactured in India, means one plate less, and one yard of cloth less exported from this country. (Hear, hear.) Se The Venerable Archdeacon BALY in reply said :—Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen,—I do not think I have very much to say in addition to what I have already said in the course of the paper. The gentleman who spoke immediately after me seemed to give the same advice to people about to go to India, as Punch gave to those about to marry—“ Don’t.” (Laughter.) I certainly re-echo that word. I should never advise an ordinary Huropean workman who was earning at all decent pay in England to think that he would better himself by going to India. The pay certainly appears to be much larger, but the expenses of European life in India are much larger too, and when he marries he lands himself in a great many difficulties and responsibilities with respect to the health, education and employment of his children, from which he would be comparatively free in Hngland. But while acknowledging that the Huropean is not well placed in India, we must also acknowledge the fact that there are now some hundred thousand Europeans of all sorts in India, and that they are likely never to be fewer, so far as one can see, for many years tocome. Therefore, without any useless questioning as to whether it is good for them to be there or not, the fact we have to deal with is that they are there, and that their condition is such as I have described it. What is to be done with them? The only remedies I see are those two I have proposed : that they should be well prepared by education in good schools in the Hills for employment, and that they should be employed not partially or in disregard of others, but in due regard to the value of their work, to the difficulties of their position, as Europeans compelled to settle in a country the climate of which is unsuited to them, and to their claims as Englishmen who may be trusted as faithful citizens in the most confidential departments of Government service. I consider that the Government, so far as is possible, should strive to lighten the disadvantages under which they are living in India, and place them on an equality with the natives of the country in the facilities for obtaining employment sufficient to 396 EAST INDIA ASSOCIATION. maintain them. -If Iam asked what is the first step to be taken in reference to this ; I answer, to educate them in such a manner as to fit them both in mind and body for such employment. Give them a fair start and a fair field. That is all J want for them. It is whatis being done in England for the children of the working classes. The country spares no money whatever in educating them in order that they may grow up sober, industrious men, instead of wasters. That is what we should do for Europeans in India. If the Government will not do it— I think they ought to do it—but if they will not, then I call upon the humanity of Englishmen to do it in their stead. (Hear, hear.) It is of no use to meet either here or anywhere else and discuss and talk over grievances in this way unless we put forward our hands to help them. We can help them by appealing to the Government. I do not know whether that will do immediate good, becanse Govern- ment, as we know by experience, is slow to move in matters of this kind ; it requires frequent and long-continued applications, and takes much time to consider before it does anything, and the evil to be removed goes on all the while increasing. But while we do all we can in urging this matter on the attention of Government, there is some- thing we can all do ourselves at once—help with our own hands and purses. Now we have a kindred association to this, in its object of benefiting the working classes of Europeans in India, although it is of a more definitely charitable and religious character; we call it the Indian Church Aid Association, of which lately I have been Secretary, and one of our great objects is to elicit from people in England contri- butions and subscriptions to the establishment and maintenance of schools for Europeans in India. In that I hope we may be more or less successful, but the attendance at this meeting to-day shows how little interest is at present taken at home in their condition. We see what a dense wall of ignorance and indifference we have to get through, and although I put some trust in the cheerful face and cheerful expressions of Mr. Atkins, I know that a great deal of work les before us if we are to do any practical good for our countrymen in India. I quite agree that it would be much better if we could do Kuropean work without European men in India, but that is impossible; there they are, and there they must be for very many years to come, and we must do our best for them by pressing their condition upon the attention of the Government, and also by endeavouring to raise up associations in England by which their case may be brought before the people of England, and they be induced to give their help. If one quarter of the money was sent out to Europeans that is now very properly sent out for the work of the conversion of India, we should EUROPEAN PAUPERISM IN INDIA, 897 be able with that money to do all that is necessary for the European children of the country. It is practical effort, and not theoretical conversations, that we require in Hngland for India. (Cheers.) The CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen,—Before I came here I read the paper of the Venerable Archdeacon’s with very great interest, and I need hardly say that I have listened to the discussion we have had here to-day with not less interest or instruction. I shall not detain you with any lengthy remarks or opinions of my own upon this subject. Itis quite sufficient for me to say that I entirely sympathize, as everyone must do, with the object of the paper, and with the opinions we have heard expressed by the lady and gentlemen who have addressed us. It will be more to the point if I say something which I think is of a practical description as regards the action which this Society will probably take. I, of course, am not in a position to commit the Society to any defined course of action, but I can say, on my own behalf as a Member of the Council, and on behalf of the other Members of the Council whom I see here present, that at the very next meeting of the Council this subject will be most carefully considered by Members, and that we will use every endeavour to ventilate the views of the lecturer, either by drawing up a Memorial to Parliament, or some other course of action that may seem advisable or possible under the circumstances. I agree very much with the remark which fell from Mr. Atkins, that a great deal may be done by arousing public interest in this country by holding meetings of the working classes. We all know where the votes lie in this country now. I need not tell you that the working classes of this country have a power now which they had not before, and it is their own fault if they cannot obtain for their fellow-countrymen in India the different benefits which they, by their action, have been able to obtain for themselves in this country; and, therefore, however much may be done by Societies like ours, or by the spasmodic efforts of individuals, I think that the great action which alone will be effectual must be derived from the working classes of England sympathizing, as they very properly should, with their fellow-countrymen in India. And now, gentlemen, I have to perform, before sitting down, avery pleasing task, viz. to propose a very hearty vote of thanks to the Venerable Archdeacon Baly, who has been so kind as to deliver before this Society one of the most interesting-and practical lectures that we have ever had. (Hear, hear.) This Society, I think, has done a great deal of good, and I hope it will do more in future. I do not think the Members of it could really address themselves to a more important RYO eg - EASP INDIA ASSOCIATION. subject. We-have had, it is true, a very small meeting here to-day, but the importance of a meeting must not always, I venture to think, be gauged by its size; it must be measured by the practical opinions which are expressed at it, and I have never heard before this Society a more interesting and practical and sensible discussion than we have heard here to-day. (Cheers.) I now propose a hearty vote of thanks to the Venerable Archdeacon. The motion was seconded by Mr. C.W. ARATHOON, and carried unanimously. The Venerable Archdeacon briefly replied, and the meeting terminated.