SI'y OF MICHIGAN 901 04762 4 JQ 1315 U.S. Congress. Senate..1915 Committee on the Philippines. A3 Government of the pt.9 Philipoines...1915. B 344778 ; 0 4 e + 8 z,, I- - J -.i. ~ ~ 4;~~;.~ I,:..:..~~r. ' ~-; -~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~li s... ~~,1; KAROLTON~ aaItKLASP- 7 x 10 i KAROtTON ENVEOPE DIVISION. I.. IKIMBERLY CLARK CORPORATION WEST CARROLLTON,, OHIO N:, 6.. '.. GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES J1 -? HEARINGS A\ A3 BEFORE THE i COMMITTEE ON THE PHILIPPINES UNITED STATES SENATE SIXTY-THIRD CONGRESS THIRD SESSION ON H. R. 18459 AN ACT TO DECLARE THE PURPOSE OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES AS TO THE FUTURE POLITICALISTATUS OF THE PEOPLE OF THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS AND TO PROVIDE A MORE AUTONOMOUS GOVERNMENT FOR THE ISLANDS JANUARY 9, 1915 PART 9;,i. WASHINGTON 4O* GOVERNMENT PRINTING OPPIOE.UBVERRSr Of P.MIC OA NZ1tL I T. —,JQ Ct L COMMITTEE ON THE PHILIPPINES. GILBERT M, HITCHCOCK, Nebraska, Chairman. DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida. JOSEPH L. BRISTOW, Kansas. JAMES A. REED, Missouri. COE I. CRAWFORD, South Dakota. HARRY LANE, Oregon. GEORGE P. McLEAN, Connecticut. WILLARD SAULSBURY, Delaware. HENRY F. LIPPITT, Rhode Island. JOSEPH E. RANSDELL, Louisiana. WILLIAM S. KENYON, Iowa. JOHN F. SHAFROTH, Colorado. JOHNI W. WEEKS, Massachusetts. JOHNSON N. CAMDEN, Kentucky. WILLARD D. EAKIN, Clerk. II GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. SATURDAY, JANUARY 9, 1915. UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON THE PHILIPPINES, Washington, D. C. The committee assembled at 10 o'clock a. m. Present: Senators Hitchcock (chairman), Lane, Ransdell, Shafroth, Camden, McLean, Lippitt, Kenyon, and Weeks. STATEMENT OF MR. NEWTON W. GILBERT-Continued. The CHAIRMAN. At the time the committee adjourned, Mr. Gilbert, you were still on the stand, but I do not know that you have anything further to say. Do you wish to say something further? Mr. GILBERT. Senator, I have touched very briefly on nearly everything I had in mind. One thing that perhaps I ought to call attention to, although I know your attention has been called to it before, is the fact that this bill, as it is now drawn, in my judgment takes away from American citizens in the Philippines rights that they now possess. The CHAIRMAN. What are those rights? Mr. GILBERT. The right to vote, although I do not think many Americans care to vote. In fact, I think very few indeed do vote. Still, it is thought by some lawyers out there that it takes away from Americans the right to practice the learned professions, as, for instance, law. I do not know that it goes that far; but I take it that nobody in Congress wants to deprive American citizens of any rights in the Philippines, and that that question, at some time or other, ought to be examined very carefully by your committee. Senator SHAFROTH. Can you point out the particular section or phaseology that you think does that? Mr. GILBERT. I think I can after a few minutes. I have not it in mind. I shall be glad to furnish it to you later. The CHAIRMAN. I presume you would like to read your testimony for correction. Mr. GILBERT. Yes; I would, thank you. The CHAIRMAN. You can insert that section in them, then, if you will. Senator SHAFROTH. And I wish you would suggest any phraseology, and at what point in the bill you would like that phraseology to be included, which would give the rights which you want. Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. 581 ( 582 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. (Mr. Gilbert subsequently made the following statement:) Upon examination of the, bill which was amended in the House, I find in section 2 the definition of citizens of the Philippine Islands, and I further find in section 15 that the only persons who are entitled to vote in the Philippine Islands are citizens of the Philippine Islands. A citizen of the United States, of course, is not a citizen of the Philippine Islands. No provision has been made in the bill, so far as I can determine, to grant to the citizens of the United States either the right to vote or any other privileges of citizenship, and, as a matter of fact, few citizens of the United States do desire to vote. That privilege has been extended now, but, I think, has not been exercised to any large extent. But there are many other rights pertaining to citizenship which Americans do desire to exercise, and, whether or not they have that desire, it is my opinion that Congress does not intend to deprive citizens of the United States of any rights which they now have anywhere under the American flag, and there should be an amendment introduced here at a suitable place providing that all privileges that accrue to citizens of the Philippine Islands should be also possessed by citizens of the United States so long as the United States exercises sovereignty within those islands. Senator SHAFROTH. I was not here when you were on the stand, Mr. Gilbert. What is your business, please? Mr. GILBERT. I am a lawyer. Senator SHAFROTH. In the Philippine Islands? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. I suppose you probably know that I held office there for many years. Senator SHAFROTH. In the Philippine Islands? Mr. GILBERT. In the Philippine Islands. I explained that yesterday. I went out there first in 1905. I was a Member of Congress at that time. I went out in 1905 with the somewhat celebrated congressional party. I remember that a Senator from your State was one of my companions. Senator SHAFROTH. Senator Patterson? Mr. GILBERT. Senator Patterson. I became, foolishly or otherwise, interested in the Filipino people and the Philippine Islands. Afterwards Mr. Taft offered me the opportunity of going, and I resigned from Congress and went back a few months later, first as a judge on the bench, later as a member of the commission, and for the last five years secretary of public instruction and Vice Governor General. Senator SHAFROTH. You have been there ever since, have you? Mr. GILBERT. I have been there ever since. Senator SHAFROTH. And you expect to go back there? Mr. GILBERT. I expect to go back. Since the new regime I resigned, and have joined a law firm of Americans who have been there for many years. I call it my home. Senator SHAFROTH. Are you representing any class of people or any business interests over there? Mr. GILBERT. Do you mean here? Senator SHAFROTH. Yes. Mr. GILBERT. No, sir. If I represent anybody in particular over here it is the Filipino people, in whom all my interests are centered, as far as I am conscious. if"' /.: GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 583 STATEMENT OF CHARLES M. SWIFT, OF GROSSE POINTE, MICH. The CHAIRMAN. Where is your home, Mr. Swift? Mr. SWIFT. At the village of Gross Pointe, Mich., which is a suburb of Detroit; I have no office in Detroit. The CHAIRMAN. Have you been in the Philippine Islands? Mr. SWIFT. Yes; at various times. I am the president of the Philippine Railway and also of the Manila Electric Railway. In those capacities I have made five trips to the Philippines, but never staying at any time more than two months. The CHAIRMAN. What investments are those? Will you give the committee an idea of their size and character? Mr. SWIFT. The Manila Electric Railway has a cash investment of about $7,000,000, including the suburban road which is part of the system; the Philippine Railway a little over $8,000,000; the two together about $15,000,000. The CHAIRMAN. Are you the president of those companies? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. When were those investments made? Mr. SWIFT. In the case of the Manila Electric it was about 11 years ago, I think-11 or 12 years ago —that we obtained the franchise. I have forgotten exactly, but I think it was in March, 1903, that the franchise was awarded, and it took two or three years to build. In the case of the Philippine Railway the road was completed about three years ago, and the construction began, I suppose, three or four years before that. The CHAIRMAN. From what point to what point does the Manila Electric road run? Mr. SWIFT. It runs in the city of Manila and out to Fort McKinley. Senator CAMDEN. How many miles have they? Mr. SWIFT. About 50 miles. The CHAIRMAN. And the Philippine Railway? Mr. SWIFT. The Philippine Railway is on the islands of Cebu and Panay. The CHAIRMAN. How long is it? Mr. SWIFT. Altogether, 133 miles. The CHAIRMAN. Is that one for which the Philippine Government has guaranteed the interest on the bonds? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What do those bonds amount to? Mr. SWIFT. They amount to over $8,000,000; I have forgotten exactly how much. The CHAIRMAN. Approximately the cost of the road? Mr. SWIFT. Approximately the cost of the road: just about. They were issued for 90 per cent, I think, of the cost of the road. The CHAIRMAN. In operating the road, have the earnings been sufficient to pay the interest on the bonds? Mr. SWIFT. They have not. The CHAIRMAN. How much has the Philippine Government advanced on that interest? Mr. SWIFT. I do not know the exact figure. You can get that from the Government. It is quite a lot. This year we will earn 40 per 584 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. cent, I think, of our interest. We hope to be able to earn the interest in a few years if we get the sort of prosperity we want there. The CHAIRMAN. What does the total annual interest amount to? Mr. SWIFT. It is 4 per cent on the outstanding bonds, which I think are about $8,300,000. It is over $320,000 a year. The CHAIRMAN. And your road is able to earn only about 40 per cent of that amount? Mr. SWIFT. Last year it did not earn anywhere near that much, but this year it is doing much better. The CHAIRMAN. What was the cause of the deficiency last year? Mr. SWIFT. We had very bad weather. When I say "last year," I mean the year 1913. The year 1914 has been more prosperous than the year 1913. During the year 1913 we had floods and bad conditions down there. The CHAIRMAN. What do your earnings chiefly consist of-passenger or freight earnings? Mr. SWIFT. More passenger than freight earnings; about 65 per cent, I think, passenger earnings. The CHAIRMAN. What is the character of the freight that you carry? Mr. SWIFT. Local freight. The CHAIRMAN. What does it consist of? Mr. SWIFT. The various things that are produced along the line of the road; sugar somewhat, and copra, I think corn, and then the various small things. It is not a very heavy business. The CHAIRMAN. Are the gross earnings increasing? Mr. SWIFT. The gross earnings increased last year, and also the net earnings. I will say that I come here on my own suggestion, not on the suggestion of either of these companies. I come here because my condition is a little different from that of the other stockholders, who have interests in this country and also in other things. The only interests I have anywhere are in these two properties, so I consider that I am something like the Filipino. Whatever helps the Filipino will help me. Whatever hurts the Filipino will hurt me. The CHAIRMAN. Your eggs are all in one basket? Mr. SWIFT. My eggs are all in one basket. The CHAIRMAN. Tell us a little about this electric road. Those bonds are not guaranteed, are they? Mr. SWIFT. No; the electric road is a good property. The CHAIRMAN. That is a paying investment? Mr. SWIFT. That is a paying investment. The CHAIRMAN. DO you pay taxes on that to the Philippine Government? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And also to the city of Manila? Mr. SWIFT. Yes; we pay the ordinary taxes on real estate and machinery, just as everybody else does, on the assessed valuation. In addition to that, we pay 2j per cent of the gross receipts in lieu of other taxes. The CHAIRMAN. Is that fixed in your franchise? Mr. SWIFT. In the franchise. Senator LANE. What is the length of term that you have there? GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 585 Mr. SWIFT. The length of term is 50 years from the time it was given, with a provision that at the end of 25 years the city of Manila may purchase the property. Senator LANE. At an assessed value? Mr. SWIFT. At a going rate, a rate depending upon the earnings of the company. Senator CAMDEN. What is your population per mile? Mr. SWIFT. The population we serve is in the neighborhood of 250,000. The line is about 50 miles long, which would be about 5,000 population to the mile. Senator LANE. Where do you derive your power Mr. SWIFT. It is an electric plant, steam driven. Last year we obtained a franchise-that is, a franchise was granted in my name and subsequently assigned to a corporation called the Manila Power Co.-for the purpose of developing a water power about 60 miles from Manila; but that, of course, the war and financial conditions are holding back at present. The CHAIRMAN. Who grants such a franchise? Mr. SWIFT. The legislature. The CHAIRMAN. The Philippine Legislature? Mr. SWIFT. The Philippine Legislature granted it. They granted the last one. The CHAIRMAN. YOU pay good dividends on the $8,000,000 invested in that company? Mr. SWIFT. About $7,000,000-yes; we pay dividends on that now. The CHAIRMAN. That is about 50 miles in length? Mr. SWIFT. Yes; it has about 50 miles of track, and that includes the lighting. We also do the city lighting. We have a lighting plant, and we furnish electric light for private customers as weli as for the city. I can condense matters, Mr. Chairman, if I may read the statement I have here. The CHAIRMAN. Very well; we shall be very glad to have you proceed in your own way. Mr. SWIFT. I will simply premise this with the statement that I do this on my own responsibility, without consultation with my directors. I do not want anybody else to stand the responsibility for it except myself. I asked to be heard because I think my interests out there are considerable, and it is a personal matter with me. According to its title the Jones bill is "An act to declare the pur, pose of the people of the United States as to future political status of the Philippine Islands," etc. The bill contains no declaration of such purpose except in the preamble and in the following paragraph: It is, as has always been, the purpose of the people of the United States to withdraw their sovereignty from the Philippine Islands and to recognize their independence as soon as a stable government can be established therein. Manifestly, this pronunciamiento is not in accord with the facts It is not the purpose of the people of the United States to withdraw their sovereignty over the Philippine Islands as soon as a stable government can be established therein. The Jones bill itself does not, except in the preamble, indicate any such purpose. A stable government has already been established therein. There has been 586 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. a stable government therein for years, and there will be a stable government therein under the Jones bill or without the Jones bill; but the one thing that has given and will give the Philippine government stability is American sovereignty. No method is suggested in the Jones bill by which a stable government resting on any basis other than American sovereignty is to be bult up. Stability means permanence. A stable government is a government that will endure. For one thing, national stability depends on a nation's stability for defense against foreign aggression. What provision is there in the Jones bill for such defense? Does any sane man believe that without the United States Army and Navy, without the sanction of the American flag and American prestige, any Philippine government would be stable, permanent, enduring? It is American sovereignty that gives its creature, the Philippine government, stability. The withdrawal of that sovereignty would mean instability, chaos. The language of the preamble, then, is misleading. The purpose, as given out both in America and the Philippines, is the withdrawal of American sovereignty at some time. But when? Not when a stable government can be established therein. That has already happened. What is the criterion of stability under the bill? What is the Filipino to do or refrain from doing to bring about stability? I agree that the United States ought to declare its purpose. What that purpose should be depends on a consideration of the Filipino's political status at the present time under the Stars and Stripes. Now, what is a Filipino? Whatever the purpose of the United States " in the incipiency of the War with Spain," it is indisputable that when the treaty of Paris was signed it was the purpose of the United States to add to its territory by taking over the Philippine Islands. Spain ceded its title, the United States paid the price agreed upon, and took possession and thereby imposed its sovereignty on the Filipino people. The purpose of the people of the United States is shown beyond doubt by these acts. The Filipino people, who, theretofore, had been subjects and citizens of Spain, became subjects and citizens of the United States. In using the words " citizen " and " citizenship " I am aware that when applied to the Filipino they must be given a qualified meaning. Probably no other word in the English language has been given so many meanings by judicial adjudication as the word " citizen "; but the Filipino certainly comes within the broadest and most comprehensive definition, which is as follows: One bound to a State by the reciprocal obligations of allegiance on the one hand and protection on the other. I have been looking at the books this morning. I ought to start, perhaps, with the original language that fixed any status for the Filipinos, which was an order during the military regime out there by te commission appointed by the military governor, at the suggestion of the President, which fixed, among other things, the qualifications of voters in municipal elections, and required every voter to take the oath of allegiance to the United States, the oath of allegiance, to be administered, being written out in full. The organic act of the Philippine government, so-called, in providing for the first assembly provided that the qualifications for the electors should GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 587 be the same as those fixed in that order for municipal elections. Therefore, the United States contemplated that the Filipino still owes allegiance to the United States, and is entitled to the protection of the United States. The treaty of Paris provided that the political status of the Filipinos should be fixed by Congress. Subsequently Congress provided that all residents of the Philippine Islands, with the exception of those who within a limited time should express their intention of remaining Spanish citizens, should become citizens of the Philippine Islands and should be entitled to the protection of the United States Government. The phrase "Philippine Islands" designates a geographical division under the sovereignty of the United States. The Philippine Islands possess no sovereignty of their own; and when Congress declared a person to be a citizen of the Philippine Islands it declared, in effect, that he became a citizen of the United States. The same act, in limiting the voting privilege, confined electors to persons " owing allegiance to the United States." Even prior to this act, under the military government formed under the authority of the President, electors in municipal elections were required to take the oath of allegiance to the United States, recognizing its sovereignty as supreme. The Philippine Government, so called, is nothing but an agent of the United States Government, organized for the exercise of such portions of sovereignty as have been intrusted to it by the United States Government from time to time. Such powers are given by one Congress and may be taken away by the next. The United States Government is responsible for every act of the Filipino Legislature and is liable for every obligation it authorizes it to incur. Such a thing as a Philippine Government apart from the United States does not exist, and is not created or intended to be created by the Jones bill, which, on the contrary, both in preamble and in enactment, reaffirms American sovereignty. The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean by that that the Government of the United States is responsible for the bonded debt of the Philippine Islands? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir; morally responsible, at any rate. I suppose a bondholder buying the bonds, if he were a foreigner, would undoubtedly make a claim that the United States was responsible; and why should it not be? What did the Filipino have to do with issuing those bonds? The amount of the bonds was fixed in Washington; the form of the bonds was fixed in Washington; the price was fixed in Washington; and the sale was made in Washington. The CHAIRMAN. Were not the bonds issued under authority of the Philippine Legislature? Mr. SWIFT. Probably, but directed from Washington. The commission at that time was directed from Washington. The CHAIRMAN. Then the United States would be responsible for the interest on the railroads' bonds in the Philipine Islands? Mr. SWIFT. I think so, myself; but I am not going to make any such claim on any bonds I own. A large number of those bonds, however, were sold abroad. They were sold in Amsterdam, in Berlin, in Paris, and in London. About half of them were sold at one time, and bids for those bonds were received in the office of the Insular Bureau in Washington. 588 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Senator LIPPITT. Do you mean that if the United States Government abandoned the Philippine Islands, and turned them over to the Filipino people, the United States Government would be responsible for those bonds in case the Filipino government did not pay them? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir; that is my position. Senator LIPPIrTr. Legally, do you mean? Mr. SWIFT. I did practice law, but 25 years ago I gave it up, and I am not undertaking now to pass a legal opinion; but that is my opinion. I think every bondholder would make that claim, and I think there is a very good, strong case in his favor. Senator CAMDEN. Was that idea or suggestion held out to them when these bonds were sold?. Mr. SWIFT. No; it was not. On the contrary, it was stated that they were bonds of the Philippine government; but the Philippine government was simply an agent of the United States. Senator CAMDEN. Was there any guaranty held out that the United States was back of them? Mr. SWIFT. No; not at all. I was not thinking so much about bonds we own as about bonds we sold. We sold quite a lot of them. Those that we did not sell we have, and we will probably have to keep, and we might be compelled to take our medicine; that is, we would have to wait for the determination of the Supreme Court as to the status of the Philippine Islands in case this bill should be passed. Senator LIPPITT. I was not here when you began your statement. What railroad do you refer to? Mr. SWIFT. The ~Philippine Railway, so called; the steam railway on the islands of Panay and Cebu, the interest on the bonds of which was guaranteed for 30 years by the Philippine Government. Senator LIPPITT. Is that the road in the case of whose bonds we passed an amendment to the act about three or four years ago? Mr. SwIFT. No; I think not. There is another road, called the Manila Railroad, with a railroad in Luzon. I think you passed an amendment to the act so that they got the benefit of this same guaranty. It follows that the Filipino owes no allegiance to, and can demand no protection from, the Philippine Government, so called, except in so far as it is a representative of the United States Government. The citizenship of the Filipino may not be the same as the citizenship of the New Yorker in quality and extent; that is, he may not have all of the New Yorker's privileges. There are varying degrees of citizenship. Some American citizens are represented in Congress and some are not. No male inhabitant of the District of Columbia may vote for a presidential elector. Still, he is a citizen of the United States. That is, he is a citizen under the definition that I give. He owes allegiance to the United States, and he is entitled to protection from the United States, just as the Filipino is. If Senor Quezon, on his way home to the Philippines, went through Europe, and his liberty should be interfered with by any foreigner, he would appeal, not to Manila, but to Washington. Senator LIPPITT. Suppose he went through Mexico, and his liberty was interfered with-how would he appeal? [Laughter.] GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 589 Mr. SWIFT. I am not answering conundrums. [Laughter.] His widow would probably appeal, under those circumstances. The creative interest of a New Yorker in a United States Senator is about 5 per cent of that of a Vermonter. Still, both are citizens. l Every subject of the sovereignty of the United States owes allegiance to the Stars and Stripes, and is entitled to its protection. The particular word used to describe a person's status is of no great moment, if that status be understood. It is to be borne in mind that the Filipino owes no other allegiance than to the United States, and can look for protection to no other Government, and knows no other flag than the Stars and Stripes. To the American Government for a dozen years he has given loyal allegiance; and in return that Government has extended to him the benefit of those principles of the American Constitution intended to conserve personal liberty and individual independence. It has furnished the Army and Navy which protect him from foreign attack. Laws made under its controlling principles, expounded and enforced by judges it appoints, have been designed to protect him from all possible aggression of his neighbors. It has sought to confer upon him the broadest type of liberty-liberty of opportunity, liberty of education, liberty of healthful environment. It has endeavored to arouse in him an understanding and appreciation of American ideals, and in a remarkably short space of time has made him the happiest, the most independent, the best clothed, the best fed, the best paid oriental native in the world. I can not believe that a proposal to rob 7,000,000 people, so Christian, so enlightened, so literate as Mr. Jones describes them, of the priceless boon of American citizenship, qualified, if you please, but nevertheless conferring the right to live under American institutions in accordance with American ideals, to claim protection of the American flag, will meet the approval of the American people. Is State independence the only goal of political ambition? Russia is an independent State, Japan is an independent State, Mexico is an independent Republic. Is life under an autocracy or unlimited anarchy better than life under the flag of the freest people on earth? By reason of lack of resources, environment, and racial characteristics, State independence for the Philippine Islands is a political impossibility. On the other hand, individual independence of 7,000,000 Filipinos is already a realization. Some day "a Filipino patriot will arise who will grasp the situation as it is, who will realize with pride that his people are now American citizens; who, instead of endeavoring to rob them of that right, will insist on its recognition by the American Government. He will say to Congress: " By your own act you assumed sovereignty over us, and by that act you endowed us with the right to the protection of your flag. That right is inalienable. It is ours for all time. American citizenship, once conferred, can never be taken away except by an act of shameful tyranny. You gave us American citizenship. You deprived us of all other citizenship. For 16 years you have assumed our control, and have educated us in the glories of your free institutions. You can not now rob us of that privilege." Senator SHAFROTH. They are' not saying that now, though, are they? 590 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Mr. SWIFT. They ought to say it, and they would say it if they understood their own status. I really believe they would say it. I do not believe there is any widespread demand among the Filipinos, as a race, for a change of their present status. Senator SHAFROTH. Have you found any conventions or meetings that declared otherwise there? Mr. SWIFT. No; I have not; but I am perfectly sure that when so many conventions were held and adopted the Jones bill with this preamble in it, with a recitation that is plainly contrary to the fact, they could not have given it very much attention. What I mean by that, Senator, is this: There is a statement there that it is the purpose of the people of the United States to give them independence '" as soon as a stable government can be established therein." Well, there is a stable government there now. They overlooked that. Thev could not have given it very much attention. Senator SIJAFROTII. Have you found any of the natives who indorse your proposition that the United States Government can not withdraw from the islands, and can not surrender its sovereignty? Mr. SWIFT. I have not taken it up with the natives; but I will say this, Senator, in response to that question:, There has been something said about the decadence of the so-called Federal Party, which was a very large and influential native party in the Philippines, strongly in favor of retaining the connection of the United States, and reasons have been given for that party's failure to act. My theory is that it faded away because American Governors General and others began to intimate plainly that the United States was going to cut the islands loose. If the representatives of the United States had not begun a vague sort of talk to the effect that some time or other they were going to cut the Philippines loose, I do not think that party ever would have disintegrated. I think they would have no feeling of desire to cut loose from the American Government, though there would have been a constant natural desire for an enlargement from time to time of their local autonomy, which is perfectly legitimate. Senator SHAFROTH. Do you not think it arose from the fact that every nation wants to govern itself, and not to be governed by a foreign nation? Mr. SWIFT. No; I do not. I think the Filipino must realize that state independence is an impossibility. How can you have state independence? State independence depends upon your capacity to defend yourself against all foreign nations. Senator MCLEAN. You think they might have been as independent as the Canadians, perhaps? Mr. SWIFT. Yes; I am in favor of making the hold of the United States as light as possible, but also of notifying the world that nobody, except the United States, is ever going to control them at all. Four years before the American Declaration of Independence an English court ruled that once a slave set foot on English soil he became a free man. Some day an American judge, or an American President, or an American Congress will rule that once American citizenship has been conferred it shall never be taken away. To confer American citizenship is to confer the highest type of freedom. To take it away, if it does not actually create slavery, it at least GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 591 means a crippling of freedom. As we will not permit a man to sell himself into slavery or to give himself into slavery, or by any form of contract to imperil or restrict his own personal liberty, so I believe the American people will one day decide that no man who has tasted the sweets of American liberty, who has given his allegiance to the American flag, who has become entitled to its protection, shall be robbed of that privilege or be permitted to sell it, trade it, diminish or cripple it, or give it away. That day will mark the true emancipation of the Filipino. The practical solution of the Philippine question depends on a frank recognition of the American citizenship of the Filipino, the consequent responsibilities of the American Government, and a consideration of that feature of the American governmental system under which there is a division of governmental functions or sovereign powers between the Federal Government and the States and Territories. Our system is not so rigid and inelastic that it can not be adapted to insular possessions beyond the seas. We already have one division of governmental functions between the Federal Government and States and another one between the Federal Government and Territories. Certainly broad statesmanship can devise a division that will accord with the proper relationship between the Federal Government and insular possessions. The Federal Government should retain every soverign power necessary for the protection of the distant islander from foreign aggression, and for the assurance to the individual member of the island community of the most complete liberty and individual independence consistent with the circumstances. The degree of Philippine autonomy may well be enlarged from time to time as the Filipino comes more and more to appreciate and sympathize with American ideals and shows increasing capacity as a lawnlaker. I am fully in sympathy with the general principles of the Jones bill as to giving the Filipino opportunity to participate in legislation and in the control of his own affairs so far as is consistent with safeguarding the health and happiness of his fellow citizens and his protection against foreign aggression. At the outset, Federal control would necessarily be larger than in the case of States or Territories; but with the growth of education and political fitness this control would doubtless be relaxed by Congress, until the Philippines realized a state of local autonomy comparable to that of States and Territories. But as I can conceive of no time when the best interests of the citizens of any State would be subserved by separating them from American citizenship and withdrawing Federal protection, so I can conceive of no circumstances which would make it desirable for the Filipino to be turned out, as Vice Governor Martin suggested, "bag and baggage." My acquaintance with the Filipino leads me to believe that on the whole he is peace loving, amenable to law and order, desirous of education and improvement, and capable of justifying his American citizenship. As an observer on the ground, I can not bring myself to be a critic of the American experiment of the government of an oriental people. What the United States has done for the Filipino furnishes a bright page in its history. There is no reason why the experiment should not continue to a successful conclusion. 592 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. The one unsettling factor, disturbing business conditions and leading to unrest and discontent in the Philippines, has been the menacing threat that the Filipino at some time in the future is to be deprived of his American citizenship and the protection of the Stars and Stripes. Senator SHAFROTH. DO you not recognize that countries generally desire their own government, without the interference of a foreign government Mr. SWIFT. Well, that is a very large statement. Senator SHAFROTH. Here is a statement of Daniel Webster, which I should like to read to you, and ask you whether or not you believe in it: We may talk of it as we please, but there is nothing that satisfies mankind in an enlightened age unless man is governed by his own country and the institutions of his own government. No matter how easy may be the yoke of a foreign power, no matter how lightly it sits upon his shoulders. if it be not imposed by the voice of his own nation and his own country he will not, he can not, and he means not to be happy under its burden. Mr. SWIFT. I do not think that would apply to the Philippine Islands or the Filipinos, simply because following such a theory as that would, as a matter of fact, destroy what he now has, and what he will continue to have under the Stars and Stripes-individual independence-and when it comes down to a contest between state independence and individual independence, I am for individual independence. Senator SHAFROTH. That is your opinion. Now, what does the Filipino say? Has not he a right to say something concerning this? Mr. SWIFT. YOU would not permit any man or set of men or congregation of men or community of men to vote themselves into slavery, would you? The proposition made here yesterday by one of the witnesses, that in case the Filipinos desired it at the expiration of 10 years they ought to be permitted to vote themselves under an autocratic government like that of Japan, is a horrible thing to me. I do not believe it; and if they are not educated up to the point of knowing that such a thing as that is wrong for them, then they are not fit to pass on the kind of government they ought to have. Senator SHAFRO1H. Did you ever hear of a country voting itself into slavery? Mr. Swrir. I would consider that the Filipino was voting himself into slavery if he voted himself out of the Stars and Stripes. Senator SHAFROTH. That is what you regard; but what does he regard? Mr. SWIFT. And I think he will, when properly educated, so regard. I think he will regard it as I do; and until he does so regard it his education as an American is not complete. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Swift, I have been rather surprised at your testimony. I thought you were coming here, as a man having large interests in the islands, to speak concerning the effect on your interests of the pending bill. Mr. SWIFT. I have considered it very inappropriate for our company, as holding a franchise from the Government, to take sides in a matter of that kind. We are not in politics, and therefore I do not care to discuss any section of the Jones bill, but just simply the general principle. Every cent I have, as I say, is invested in those ii Ii it i i GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 593 enterprises over there; but that is neither here nor there. except as it seems to put me in the position of speaking as I would speak if I were a Filipino. If I were a Filipino, and knew as much as I think I know now about the benefits of an American government, I would take precisely the same position that I am taking to-day. 'The CHAIRMAN. What effect upon your interests do you think the passage of this bill, with the promise of ultimate independence to the Filipinos, would have? Mr. SWIFT. Our business in Manila had a serious setback in the last year. While it began about a year ago, of course most of it was caused by the war. As far as our road in Manila is concerned, generally speaking, under any form of government-Japanese, American, Chinese, German, or anything else-Manila is bound to be quite a metropolitan city; and I do not know that our business there would be very seriously affected, except that with this proviso here, with this threat to remove the country from the benefit of United States protection, we can not borrow any money to go ahead with improvements. If we wanted money for a water power, for instance, or to extend our plant, we would have to stop right where we were. I know that, because I have tried it. I know just the effect of this mere suggestion on bankers. I do not believe, myself, that the American people will ever permit the Philippine Islands to be given up. I feel that. I know it down in my inner consciousness. That is my feeling; but the banker I talk to does not know it. He takes this thing as a possibility, and he says: "As long as you are under the United States flag of course there will not be any laws passed that will infringe or hurt in any way any bonds that we buy over there; but we can not take chances on the Filipinos." The CHAIRMAN. Then the bond buyers are afraid that if the Filipinos have self-government they will pass some laws that will injure investments? Mr. SWIFT. No; they are more afraid of misgovernment. The CHAIRMAN. What sort of misgovernment? Mr. SWIFT. Mexicanization. Senator WEEKS. Unstable government? Mr. SWIFT. Unstable government. They are afraid of instability. Senator LIPPITT. Insurrections. Mr. SWIFT. I do not say they are right. I like the Filipinos, and I think our experience is a very fair experience. In the first place, in one way liberty is a question of wages. Say what you will, it is a question of wages to a certain extent. If that is so, we have given quite a lot of liberty to the Filipinos over there, because our going into Manila has increased wages from two to four times. When I went over there first, 11 years ago, that was the great criticism that the English residents had to make about the Americans, that they had raised the price of wages, and furthermore that they did not shoo the Filipino off the sidewalk. Before the Americans went there that was the attitude, and that is the attitude. I do not like to criticize anybody else in these days of neutrality; but if you have traveled around in the Orient, in other countries, and have seen the attitude of other white men toward the natives, and then have contrasted it with the attitude of the American toward the natives, and have compared the wages in the different countries, you will see that the Filipino has had some considerable benefit out I 594 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. of the American rule; and he will lose that if the American goes away and the country gets under the control of anybody else. The CHAIRMAN. What other power do you think would be apt to interfere with his liberty? Mr. SWIFT. The Japanese. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Shuster, who is a man of large experience, and some others, have argued that Japan would have no interest in acquiring the Philippine Islands. Mr. SWIFT. Mr. Shuster's guess is as good as mine, and possibly better, though I do not know that it is any better; but I have been in Japan five times. I have talked with a good many people over there. I will say that I have iot the slightest fear that the Japanese will ever make the slightest effort to take the Philippines as long as the United States controls them. I do not believe that. I believe the protestations of friendship on the part of the Japanese toward the United States are perfectly sincere. Senator WEEK. The Japanse Government? Mr. SWIFT. The Japanese Government. I believe they are perfectly sincere. I do not think the Japanese Government has the slightest desire to have any trouble with the United States, but I do think it is unquestionable that the Japanese must expand. They have not room enough in their own country for their people. They do not produce enough to feed their own people, and they are looking for other countries. He talks about the enormous territory they have. What have they? The CHAIRMAN. The Philippine Islands are compelled to import from Japan a part of the food they consume. Mr. SWIFT. Yes; but the Japanese could go over to the Philippines and earn more than the purchase money in sugar, and, in fact, some of them have already gone over there looking into the question. There is lots of money to be made in the Philippine Islands. Senator LIPPITT. They export a much larger part of their food than they import. Mr. SWIFT. The Philippine Islands? Senator LIPPITT. Yes. They export a large sugar crop, and it furnishes them the money to buy the rice, because they can raise sugar relatively cheaper than they can rice. Mr. SWIFT. The Philippine Islands are capable of producing enormous wealth under a stable government, a government that is not threatened from time to time with change. The CHAIRMAN. YOU take the position, then, that the United States, for the altruistic purpose of improving the condition of the Filipino, should, at great annual expense amounting to millions of dollars and at great risk of war, continue to hold the islands? Mr. SWIFT. I do not think the question of expense should enter into it at all. I recognize that the Filipino status-whether you call it citizenship, wardship, or anything that you want to call itexists and has existed for 14 or 15 years, and they are entitled to the protection of the United States flag, and to live under American ideals, and I do not think you would have any right to take it away from them. The CHAIRMAN. Then if the American people wanted to get rid of them for economic reasons, and if the Filipino people wanted i i i I GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 595 to get rid of us for sentimental reasons, you still think they ought to be kept? Mr. SWIFT. I still think they ought to be kept, even if that were so. You can secure peace, of course, by giving up territory and save expense. You could, for instance, be absolutely sure of peace on the Pacific for a number of years to come, possibly, if you gave up the Philippines and the Hawaiian Islands and the State of California, but even if the United States is holding these possessions at a loss, I do not believe the American people would favor surrendering them. The CHAIRMAN. Then the effect on your business does not influence you at all in the position you have taken? Mr. SWIFT. I would not say that I am not a human being. Undoubtedly if I did not have my interests in the Philippine Islands I would not have thought so much about it one way or the other. But I want to say that I- am not alone influenced by my interests there. Naturally I am tremendously interested in the prosperity of the Philippines, and the same with respect to the Filipinos. The CHAIRMAN. Suppose it should turn out that there is a burden on the American taxpayer for $25,000,000 a year in trying to hold the Philippine Islands, and it should turn out that the overwhelming desire of the.Filipino people is to have the privilege of governing themselves, you still think it would be wrong for us to dissolve the relationship? Mr. SWIFT. I do not admit the soundness of either one of your premises. I do not admit that it would cost $25,000,000 a year to hold the Philippines, and I do not admit that there is an overwhelming desire on the part of the Filipino people to get rid of the American flag either. I do believe that instead of having this preamble, we should put in a preamble stating that it is the purpose of the United States to continue the American citizenship of the Filipinos; I think that would be immensely popular over there, and that the agitation.would die out in two years. I do not think there is any overwhelming desire-although you can get up an overwhelming desire over there as to almost anything-but I do not think there is any overwhelming desire in that respect. That is my information from conversations that I have had with men who live in various parts of the islands-though I do not mean to infer that I am an expert on Filipino feeling, because I do not speak the Spanish and native languages. Those Filipinos that I have run across have been employed in Manila. They are very good motormen and very good conductors; they play excellent baseball, and they have a very good band; I know those qualities about them; I know that the Filipino is tractable, and I know he is a man easily led and hard to drive; they should never be driven. It is impossible to drive a Filipino, but he can be led. He is anxious for education, and it would be a crime to start now just as those young boys who are coming into their maturity-those boys who have had the benefit of education-to take them out from under the American flag and place them under a handicap of that character. The CHAIRMAN. It is not proposed to do that now. We o/ily propose to do that at some future date. 73560-PT 9-15 —2 596 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Mr. SWIFT. I know, but why give a promise that you do not feel sure you are going to fulfill? The CHAIRMAN. Do they not all feel over there that we have already made the promise? Mr. SWIFT. Some of them do and some of them do not, The CHAIRMAN. Would it not be better to settle the doubt? Mr. SWIFT. If you settle it in the right way, but not the wrong way. I think the intention of the American people is to keep the Philippines and I think it was a mistake for us to make such a promise, and the sooner we rectify that mistake the better. Under the American people they will have great prosperity, and I think we ought to rectify that at this time. Senator KENYON. What about the Baltimore platform? Have not the Filipinos studied that to some extent? Mr. SWIFT. I do not know about that. Senator KENYON. Do they not feel that that is a pledge of independence? Mr. SWiFT. I do not see why the Baltimore platform should be taken as authority. It was not made by Congress. Senator WEEKS. That would not modify Mr. Swift's statement, because he says "the American people." The Baltimore platform is the platform of the party which is a minority power. The AmeriCan people have not made the declaration. Senator SHAFROTH. It is the biggest minority party there is. Senator WEEKS. I wanted to ask Mr. Swift if he was deterred from mentioning his material interest in the Philippines by the announced intention of the administration not to protect American interests in foreign countries? Mr. SWIFT. I have no criticism of the administration and I do not propose to be lead into making any. This administration, so far as I am concerned, has been just as good as any. We obtained our franchise for water power under this administration. The CHAIRMAN. Is it a valuable franchise? Mr. SWIFT. Very; it will be when the war is over. Senator WEEKS. You do not mean to say that your estimate of an administration is based on the value of the franchise you can get from it, do you? Mr. SWIFT. No; I do not. I have not any criticism to make of this administration at all. I think it has really been a good thing that there was a change in the administration, although I am a Republican, because it has educated the Democrats as to the real condition of affairs in the Philippines. Senator LIPPITT. DO you not think it has also taught the Republicans what a good thing the Republican administration is? Mr. SWIFT. I am inclined to favor that suggestion somewhat. Senator LIPPITT. Mr. Swift, Senator Shafroth a while ago asked you if you had ever met any Filipino people who were opposed to, or who were not in favor of independence. It is not your experience that every Filipino, down in the bottom of his heart, is eager for independence? Senator SHAFROTH. I do not think I put it that way. I asked him whether there had been any meetings of Filipinos, or conventions, or anything of that kind which had declared against independence. i GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 597 Mr. SWIFT. How can anybody find out what the feelings of the natives are over there? I do not speak their language. Senator LIPPITT. DO not a great many of the natives speak our language? Mr. SWIFT. Our employees speak it enough to collect fares, and to take their reports to the office. The Filipinos that I have met and talked with are comparatively few. I have never talked politics with any of them, so I have never heard a Filipino say that he wanted to be independent, or did not want to be independent. Senator LIPPITT. You never heard any of them say they wanted independence? Mr. SWIFT. I never heard any of them say they wanted independence. Senator LIPPITT. I was under the impression that that was the thing they mostly talked about. Mr. SWIFT. They do not talk about it except when some Filipinos call them together. Senator LIPPITT. Are they not very indignant at the lack of liberty which they have there? Mr. SWIFT. I think they are begining to appreciate now that they have more liberty than they would ever have under any other flag, and if they do not understand it, all that is necessary is to appoint a roving commission of Filipinos and send them around to examine the native conditions in other oriental places and then let them report it to the others. Senator LIPPITT. DO you associate much with the Filipinos socially? Mr. SWIFT. No; my business is short. I go there for two months at times. Senator LIPPITT. You go there in connection with your business? Mr. SWIFT. In connection with my business. I usually go down to the island where the railroads are for inspection purposes, and that takes about half my time. Senator LIPPITT. You said something about the wages being paid there. Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir. Senator LIPPITT. If the American Government was withdrawn and the Filipinos retained the sovereignty of their own country without interference from outside sources, do you think the rate of wages would be maintained? Mr. SWIFT. I do not; I think they would go down. Senator LIPPITT. What was it that made wages go up under American occupation? Mr. SWIFT. I think that is a matter of sentiment as much as anything else. The Americans are accustomed to paying good wages. I do not know why it is precisely. I can not account for it. There is a vast difference in the way an American looks at a native and the way other white foreigners look at a native. Senator LIPPITT. Leaving that outMr. SWIFT. We are accustomed to paying good.wages. Senator LIPPITT. As an economical phenomenon, I have been rather puzzled by the fact that wages should go up as they did there, because I can not see why American occupation has increased the material prosperity of the people. It has not brought such a ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~......L....... B..,....,. ^,. 598 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. tremendous influx of business into the islands that I could see to justify such an increase in wages. Mr. SWIFT. No; there has been comparatively little American money that has gone in there-or any real money. Senator SHAFROTH. Did it not arise to some extent from the fact that the American Government in all its public improvements paid a higher wage than theretofore? Mr. SWIFT. It undoubtedly helped; there is no question about it, and we always have paid higher wages. Senator LIPPITT. Why did you pay higher wages? Mr. SWIFT. We though we were getting better service by paying higher wages. We wanted to make our service attractive. Senator LIPPITT. What wages do you pay Mr. SWIFT. I would not undertake to give the scale of wages. I do not know the exact scale. Senator LIPPITT. Do you pay as much as 50 cents a day? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir; more than 50 cents a day. Senator LIPPITT. Gold? Mr. SWIFT. In our money-gold. A peso in their money. Fifty cents in gold is very high wages in the Orient. Senator LIPPITT. What were the wages when you started to build the railroad, or when the Americans took the place over? Mr. SWIFT. Of course there were no other motormen and conductors to compare wages with except the little car lines that were there. I will try to get the exact figures and file them. Senator LIPPITT. I do not care about the conductors. Mr. SWIFT. The average going rate of wages was very much less; I do not think it was over one-third of that. Senator LIPPITT. Ten cents a day? Mr. SWIFT. Ten or fifteen cents a day. Senator LIPPITT. What are the going wages in the Philippinesin Manila-to-day, if you wanted to pay a man to do an odd job-to dig or something of that kind-not a motorman. Suppose you wanted to dig a trench somewhere, what would you expect to pay a man-3(0 or 40 cents? Mr. SWIFT. More than that. I should think you would have to pay 50 cents. I am not the operating man over there, and I can not give those figures off-hand. I would rather be accurate and send them to you, if you would like to have them. Senator LIPPITT. If you can, I would be glad to see them in the record. Mr. SWIFT. I will be glad to furnish them. When I went around the world, the last time I was over there, I had a young man who was a secretary, and he picked up what the wages in all the countries were of men doing the same sort of work; for instance, in Colombo and India. Senator WEEKS. How many hours a day do your men work over there? Mr. SWIFT. About 9 or 10 hours-about 10 hours a day. Senator WEEKS..Do they work through the middle of the day? Mr. SWIFT. The cars run there in the middle of the day. Senator WEEKS. I mean the day laborers Mr. SWIFT. They usually have a siesta of about an hour or perhaps two hours in the middle of the day. GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 599 Senator LIPPITT. With the chairman's permission I would be very glad to have those figures put into the record. Mr. SWIFT. Yes; as I have said, I would rather they should be sent from the official source than to try and give them off-hand. I will have them sent so that they can be filed. I am going back to New York this afternoon. The CHAIRMAN. Then we will not delay your testimony to put them in now, but you may put them in as an appendix. Mr. SWIFT. Yes; I will have them sent in. I would rather make sure. The CHAIRMAN. Is not one of the reasons why the rate of wages has increased merely because the demand for labor in public works and government Undertakings has increased; secondly, the demand for skilled labor such as you have upon your electric road, as well as the railroads? Mr. SWIFT. It is rather difficult to state just what causes led to that result. The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you this: When you are referring to what you pay, you are telling what you pay for motormen and conductors and electricians, I suppose? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir. Everybody who works for us almost is a native, including the men working in the accounting department. The CHAIRMAN. What work do they do? Mr. SWIFT. There are the motormen and conductors, and there are repair men and engineers, and men even in the accounting department, where we have a large force. The CHAIRMAN. There was none of that work before American occupation, was there? Mr. SWIFT. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. SO it is a higher grade of work for these higher wages are paid? Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir; it is higher, but when we built our railroad down in Panay and Cebu, we were after ordinary labor and we demonstrated one thing with regard to the Filipino, and that is, if you properly feed him he is a very good laboring man-if he is properly fed. When we were building in Cebu we had our own doctor who prescribed the menu for the laboring men to eat, and then we had our own cook to see that it was properly cooked and he got better food than he had been accustomed to; many of those laborers who at the start were anemic and hardly able to lift a wheelbarrow, after two or three weeks were in a splendid condition and could do as much work as almost any laborer over here. The old archbishop, who died afterwards in Cebu, thanked me for that. Senator LIPPITT. You agree with Mr. Worcester then-I think he elaborates on that idea somewhat in his book when he stated that one of the great difficulties with respect to employees is that they are not properly fed? Mr. SWIFT. Yes. Senator LIPPITT. From. your practical experience, then, you have found some evidences of the correctness of that? Mr. SWIFT. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any criticisms to make with respect to the legislative features -of the bill Mr. SWIFT. No, sir. 600 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. The CHAIRMAN. I believe that is all we care to ask Mr. Swift. Senator LIPPITT. I understood you to say, or at least I thought you did, that it was your information that owing to the manner in which we have obtained control of the Philippine Islands and retained it we were morally obligated not only to continue it, but obligated for the issuance of bonds for a certain indebtedness that had been incurred, or obligations that had been incurred. That condition then you think out to obtain and continue? I understood you to say that. Mr. SWIFT. That is my opinion, but I do not give that as a legal opinion. That is my own personal opinion. Senator LANE. I think perhaps you are right about that-that is, I do not think you are right about our being under any obligation to continue that, but you are perfectly right that if we have incurred an obligation there we should pay what we have incurred. (The following letter was received from Mr. Swift subsequently to the making of his statement:) MANILA ELECTRIC RAILROAD & LIGHTING CORPORATION, New York, N. Y., January 11, 1915. Hon. GILBERT M. HITCHCOCK, Chairman Senate Committee on Philippine Islands, Washington, D. C. DEAR SIR: When I was testifying before your committee on Saturday last I made a general statement as to the increased wages paid in Manila since American occupation, and promised to give some figures in detail. I give the following contrasting figures, taken on the one hand from the pay roll of the Compania de los Travias de Filipinas, an existing line which we purchased and absorbed, and the corresponding amounts now paid by us. The rates paid by the Manila company are previous to 1901. Our rates are taken from our present pay roll. Former Present rate. rate. Conductors......................................................... per month.. $8.00 $25.00 Front platform men.....................................................do.... 6.60 25.00 Inspectors....................................................................do.... Inspectors..............do.... 9.00 30.60 Cleaners and assistant cleaners......................................... do.... 3.00 13.75 Ordinary laborers...................................................... per day...20.50 The foregoing figures will give a general idea of the situation. The employees on electric roads differ in duties from those employed by the horse-car line, so that it is not possible to carry the comparison much further in detail. English residents in Manila say that before American occupation house servants were paid from P3 to I4 per month. They now receive from P5 to P13 per month. The prevailing rate for common labor now is from 80 centavos to:1 per day throughout the islands. Before American occupation the prevailing rate was 20 centavos (Mex.), about 8 cents gold, with a small ration of rice, worth not over 3 or 4 cents. Respectfully submitted. CHAS. M. SWIFT, President. Senator WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, before we adjourned yesterday, a line of testimony was being approached that it thought made it desirable to adjourn, but it brought to my attention one or two things which I would like to ask Mr. Gilbert. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF MR. NEWTON W. GILBERT. Senator LTPPITT. Mr. Chairman, I will say that there was but one party left here yesterday afternoon, and we were asking the witnesses GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 601 questions that were somewhat political in their nature and we thought it was not quite fair, so the committee adjourned. Senator WEEKS. Judge, you were explaining that tlhere had beeq a number of changes in the heads of bureaus, and stated that therq were about 25 bureaus there. Do you recall how many changes have been made? Mr. GILBERT. I do not recall, but I procured a statement since th' adjournment yesterday, which Mr. Ferguson just handed to me$ which will explain that. It was to be put in the testimony. This includes many things. Senator WEEKS. Were those changes made on account of the inefficiency of the previous incumbents, or for some other reason? Mr. GILBERT. I do not know. I was not in the confidence of thps who made them, and I have no criticism to make of the changes. Senator WEEKS. That is to say of the present incumbents? Mr. GILBERT. No; I have no criticism to make of the present incumbents. I did not suggest this line of inquiry and really I do nol know that I, in my heart, have much criticism with regard to the making of those changes. A new party has come into power and has taken control. They put out the fellows that they thought were not giving the best service and put in men whom they thought woulI give better service. Senator WEEKS. I have no particular criticism when a new party comes into power in the United States of its making changes herei but I deprecate any politics whatever in connection with the Philippine affairs. I do not think there should be any. Mr. GILBERT. Of course. Senator WEEKS. What I wanted to draw from you was whether these changes were made for political reasons or for reasons of in, efficiency. The CHAIRMAN. I think it would be well to have the changes specified. What were they? Senator WEEKS. I think so, too. Senator LIPPrrT. If I may be allowed to say, Mr. Gilbert was asked yesterday if he would prepare a statement of all the changes that have been made since the present administration, and the administration since Gov. Harrison went into the Philippines, and he undertook to prepare a list to be put into the record. I understand that this is that list. Mr. GILBERT. Yes; it is a list which I have not examined myselfi but which Mr. Ferguson prepared, and which I desire to examine before it is put into the record. Senator WEEKS. The only point I want to draw is whether in your judgment the previous incumbents were efficient or not? Mr. GILBERT. In my judgment most of the men removed from lffic were exceedingly efficient. Let me specify, so there will be no mlsuU-, derstanding. The director of lands was removed very promptly upon the advent of the new administration. The CHAIRMAN. DO yOU mean the director of works? Mr. GILBERT. The director of lands. The CHAIRMAN. Is that a different office from the:director o. works? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir; it is the office which has to do with all publiq lands and friar lands. Capt. Sleeper was director of public lands. 602 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. I think I have served with him eight years, but had no particular relations with him, but my conclusion is that he was a very efficient official-some one else may differ. A native was appointed to the office who had no experience whatever along any of those lines and whom it became necessary to let out of the office within a very few months because of some conditions which I would a great deal rather Gov. Martin would tell than myself, because they did not occur under my own eye. The CHAIRMAN. Was there any stated reason why the director of lands was removed? Mr. GILBERT. There was some kind of an investigation, and it was stated that he had resigned voluntarily and that no criticism was made of him. The CHAIRMAN. You say there was an investigation? Mr. GILBERT. It was stated that there was an investigation; I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Who stated it? Mr. GILBERT. It was so stated in the newspapers as being the statement of the Governor General. The CHAIRMAN. Was it stated that he was asked to resign because the governor disapproved of his policy with regard to friar lands? Mr. GILBERT. The statement that I saw was that after an investigation he had preferred to resign, and the Governor General accepted the resignation. I think, Mr. Chairman, that probably you will find there was a difference of opinion between the Governor General and the Secretary of the Interior, under whose immediate charge the bureau of lands is, as to his being permitted to resign or being let out of the service. The CHAIRMAN. What was the policy with regard to the friar lands that he was carrying out and which the governor objected to? Mr. GILBERT. I think it was the same policy that had been carried out before. The CHAIRMAN. What was it? Please tell the committee, if you know. Mr. GILBERT. Well, the Government has that secret. I do not have it. I can only tell you what the popular rumor was. The CHAIRMAN. Well, give us the popular rumor. Mr. GILBERT. The popular rumor is that the new director of lands was using his position for the purpose of securing title to public lands in members of his own family to such an extent that it became a scandal. Senator LIPPITT. Do you know this Filipino? Mr. GILBERT. The Filipino? The CHAIRMAN. I am asking you now what policy with regard to public lands on the part of Mr. Sleeper was objected to by the Governor General? Mr. GILBERT. None that I know of. I never heard of any. The CHAIRMAN. Well, that was the stated reason published at the time, was it? Mr. GILBERT. It may be; I did not hear of it. I was there at that time but I did not hear of any. Senator LIPPITT. All of this statement that you have been making in regard to there being an investigation applies to this Filipino secretary, or does it apply to Mr. Sleeper? I GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 603 Mr. GILBERT. No; to the Filipino director. Senator LIPPITT. It was not the reason why Mr. Sleeper was removed? Mr. GILBERT. No. The CHAIRMAN. I am asking you in regard to Mr. Sleeper-why Mr. Sleeper resigned. Mr. GILBERT. I do not know except that Capt. Sleeper came into my office and said he had just been called to the Governor General's office and that the governor had asked for the resignation of Capt. Sleeper. The CHAIRMAN. Did he give it at once? Mr. GILBERT. Immediately The CHAIRMAN. Without any investigation? Mr. GILBERT. I think so. The CHAIRMAN. You spoke of some investigation. Senator LIPPITT. He meant of the other man. Mr. GILBERT. This was the man who was appointed to succeed Capt. Sleeper and who has since been removed, or allowed to resign. The CHAIRMAN. He was removed after investigation, was he? Mr. GILBERT. It was so stated. Senator CRAWFORD. What is his name? Mr. GILBERT. Gen. Tinio. The CHAIRMAN. How long had Sleeper been in office? Mr. GILBERT. He was in that office 8 or 10 years. HIe had been in some office, I think, ever since the Army went out there. He went out with some regiment of Volunteers originally. The CHAIRMAN. It was quite a fixed habit with him, was it? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir; he held office as long as any of us, I guess, out there, and longer than some. Senator SHAFROTH. Where is he from? Mr. GILBERT. From your State, Senator-the State of Colorado. Senator SHAFROTH. I was wondering whether it was the same man I know him very well. Senator LIPPITT. He ought to be turned out from such a State. Mr. GILBERT. Do not understand me as criticizing. I suggested to him that he would be immediately removed, because he had been known as an active Republican. Senator LIPPITT. How many names are there, roughly speaking, on that list that you have brought in in regard to changes that have been made? Mr. GILBERT. May I ask that question of Mr. Ferguson, who prepared it? Mr. Ferguson, how many names are there on this list? Mr. FERGUSON. This list only shows the higher officials. At the end of the list is shown the entire number of separations from the service. From October, 1913, to October 1 of the year 1914-October, 1913, was when Gov. Harrison took office. Senator LIPPITT. How many are there? Mr. FERGUSON. For 1913, voluntary separations of Americans, 503; involuntary, 213. Senator LIPPITT. What do you mean by "voluntary," where men resign? Mr. FERGUSON. Where men resign-it was voluntary resignations. Senator LIPPITT. Whether he was asked to resign or not. 604 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Mr. FERGUSON. Yes, sir; involuntary is where he resigned at request, or had been separated for cause, or where his position had been abolished. The CHAIRMAN. Let me read this tabulated statement into the recordSenator LANE. I would like to ask one question before you do that. I would like to know whether this gentleman who was superintendent of agriculture was a civil-service employee? Mr. GILBERT. Capt. Sleeper? Senator LANE. Yes; was he covered in under the civil service or was it an appointment? Mr. GILBERT. He was the head of the bureau. I do not think it was under civil service. Senator LIPPIrr. He was head of the bureau. Senator LANE. And he had not been covered in under the civilservice rules and regulations? Mr. GILBERT. I think not. Senator LANE. Are these others? The CHAIRMAN. None of them. I do not think there is any civil service in the Philippine Islands. Mr. GILBERT. Oh, yes, sir; we have had a civil-service law which has been observed, I think I may say very scrupulously, for many years. I remember when I first went out there that I felt like criticizing the strictness with which the civil-service law was being observed-more strictly, I think, than here. Senator CRAWFORD. That has been generally true ever since the commission first went there. It is a merit system. Mr. GILBERT. It was one of the earliest systems that was established. Senator CRAWFORD. It was based on examinations and merit, with promotion, was it not? Mr. GILBERT. Yes. Senator KENYON. Were most of the people in office Republicans? Mr. GILBERT. I should think half-maybe not half. Senator KENYON. No more than that? Mr. GILBERT. No, sir; I do not think so. I can not say as to the lower offices, because I never knew; but as to the higher offices I have made some estimate. I think, for example, that more than one-half of the judges that have been appointed in the Philippines have been Democrats. It would be perfectly easy to demonstrate that. In my department, which I had under my control for four or five or six years, I had six bureau chiefs. Three of them were I)emocrats, at least it happened so-they might have been all Republicans or all Democrats. They were not appointed because of their politics. That is true all the way through the service. Senator KENYON. Are any of those new appointees Republicans? Mr. GILBERT. They may be; I do not know. There have been very few American appointments. They have been usually Filipmos. Senator WEEKS. May I put into the record the fact that Gen. Mcintyre has just stated that that man was in the civil service, but not the classified service. Senator LIPPITT. Mr. Sleeper, you mean? GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 605 Senator WEEKS. Yes. Mr. GILBERT. He was not in the classified service. I should have stated that. The CHAIRMAN. I want to put into the record at this time what appears to be a tabulation showing the number of separations of Americans from the service for the fiscal years indicated, from 1903 to 1913, inclusive. (The table referred to is as follows:) The following is a tabulation showing the number of separations of Americans from the service for the fiscal years indicated. No data are available for the fiscal year 1906. The figures are taken from the Fourteenth Anual Report of the Bureau of Civil Service (p. 6), of which copies are inclosed: Voluntary separations Involun- Total. of tary. Americans. Fiscal year ending June 30 -1903............... 617 269 886 1904.............................................................. 787 313 1,100 1904............-.-.. 787 313 1,100 1905.................................................. 614 195 809 1907........................................ 536 90 626 1908............................................................. 407 77 484 1909................................... 376 62 438 1910.508 92 600 1911.................481 71 552 1911...................................................... 481 71 552 1912............................................... 412 50 462 1913............................ 461 44 505 Oct. 1, 1913, to Oct. 1, 1914........................................... 503 213 716 The CHAIRMAN. I want to cl11 attention to the fact that for the year 1913, which you criticize as being characterized by excessive removals and resignationsMr. GILBERT. Will you pardon me right there? I think I did not criticize it. The question was raised by others. I did not criticize it. The CHAIRMAN. The tabulated statement shows that the voluntary separations from the service were 503, the involuntary 213, a total of 716; whereas in the year 1903 the voluntary separations were 617, involuntary separations 269, a total of 886; the year 1904 was characterized by many more voluntary separations and 100 more involuntary separations. Mr. GILBERT. Very likely those figures are correct, but let me call your attention to this difference: Those were the early days of the formation of the government service. I was not in the government; I was not there, I was here; but from all the information I have gathered out there since, in trying to make up a complete government service from the beginning, a good many men were obtained that were not suitable for their places; they were mostly taken from the Army and were discharged soldiers-the best they could get, and there were a great many separations in those earlier days from lack of qualifications and inability to do the work. To make a fair comparison, I think, Senator, you should make the comparison with the years 1910, 1911, 1912, and 1913. Senator LIPPITT. Inasmuch as the chairman has called attention to the comparison of the year 1913 particularly with 1904 and 1905 — 1904 being the year of the largest number of changes in the service, 606 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. namely, 1,100 people, it is only fair to say that the 716 people who have changed in the service from October 1, 1913, to October 1, 1914, made the largest number of changes since the year 1905. The year previous to this year was 200 less; the year 1912 was 300 less; the year 1911 was 200 less, etc. Mr. GILBERT. I have not seen the figures, but I would suppose that would be true. Senator LIPPITT. I would also like to call your attention to the fact that the involuntary changes in this year, 1914, were 213, as compared with the previous years of 44, and 50 and 71 and 92 and 62 and 7. So that the involuntary changes have been four or five times as many. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Gilbert, for the four years immediately preceding the advent of Mr. Harrison's administration Gov. Gen. Forbes was the Governor General, was he not? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That included the years 1912, 1911, 1910, and part of 1909 Mr. GILBERT. I think that is right. The CHAIRMAN. Of course during those years the involuntary removals were very small. They would be only such removals as the Governor General would make of his own appointees. Mr. GILBERT. Well, of the appointees that he found when he became Governor General. -He found the government entirely organized when he became Governor General. The CHAIRMAN. Yet it appears that he has removed in that time approximately 70 of his employees each year. Mr. GILBERT. There is no doubt of that. The CHAIRMAN. That is, from 50 to 92 employees each year. Mr. GILBERT. Senator, I believe myself that in a government of that kind especially, the man who is responsible is the Governor General, and he should have a very free hand in selecting his subordinates. The CHAIRMAN. So you do not criticize? Mr. GILBERT. I did not come here to criticize, and I do not criticize it: I have been converted, however. I went out there as quite a partisan in 1905 and was disappointed when I got out there that under a Republican administration here half of the good jobs were held by Democrats. Senator CRAWFORD. In the Philippines was not the civil service a merit system, under control of the Civil Service Commission in Washington? Was not the civil service established by the commission out there? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir; but a large part of the examinations were held here in Washington. The Civil Service Board here cooperated with us and held examinations. It was our own law out there. Senator CRAWFORD. That is what I supposed. It was a law of the commissioners out there. Senator LIPPITT. You were starting to say something about a change of heart that you had? Mr. GILBERT. I said I went out there with the idea that had grown up with me in all of my years of contact with the kind of politics that we have at home, and I was sort of disappointed to see so many GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 607 Democrats holding good jobs, but I became convinced in the eight or nine years that I was in the service that after all that was a very good thing. We had not party politics there. The Democrats and Republicans worked together. It was an American proposition, and I deprecate anything that appears-and yet that may not be trueto change the service because of the political complexion of the previous administration, and I have not seen very much in this administration that has led me to think that that haswbeen done, while a number have been removed, and no doubt some removed because of their being active politically-for instance, one man was national committeeman of the Republican committee, Col. McCoy, collector of customs. No doubt that had something to do with his removal. Senator CRAWFORD. What do you mean-from the Philippine Islands? Mr. GILBERT. From the Philippine Islands. There was one member of the national committee from the Philippines. Senator McLEAN. Has not the purpose of this administration been to increase the number of Filipinos in the service there? Mr. GILBERT. I think so. I was coming to that. Senator MCLEAN. Let me ask you another question: Did they change the chief of the bureau of agriculture-if that is the right name of the bureau that has charge of the suppression of rinderpest? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. Of course he resigned because his position was made, as he thought, impossible. Senator McLEAN. And the Filipino succeeded him? Mr. GILBERT. No, sir; the Filipino was appointed assistant director and a man who had been his assistant was appointed director, and is director now-Mr. Taylor resigned, he told me, because he felt that they had crippled his authority and his ability to do the work. They took the control of this rinderpest, for example, and the suppression of the locusts, from the bureau of agriculture, which was an insular force, and placed them in the local government. Senator MCLEAN. What was the effect of that change, as you have observed? Mr. GILBERT. I received a letter this morning from Manila giving me the figures on rinderpest from the nine municipalities still affected at the time, just before this change took place, and the last figures given me in this letter were 47. Senator LIPPITT. Forty-seven what? Mr. GILBERT. Forty-seven municipalities in which there was rinderpest. Senator LIPPITT. In other words, there has been a great growth of rinderpest? Mr. GILBERT. Undoubtedly. The local officials are unable to handle a matter that is disagreeable to the people, as well as to the central officials. Senator LANE. Was that not due to the fact-as some one said here, if my memory serves me right-that the legislature over there had changed the law so that there is not so strict a supervision as there was, and that that was the cause of it? Senator LIPPITT. Mr. Gilbert said that was the cause. Senator LANE. I understood you to say that it was the change in superintendents. ---- 608 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Mr. GILBERT. They changed the law so that the control of this matter was taken out of the bureau of agriculture and placed under the control of the local authorities. Senator LANE. It would have been the same no matter who had been superintendent? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. Senator LIPPITT. Provided the law had been changed? Senator LANE. Yies. Senator LIPPITT. That really has been one of the fears that the opponents of the withdrawal of American sovereignty have been persistent in bringing to the front, has it not, the fear that the country would go backward and particularly in regard to quarantine and health conditions; would this seem to illustrate in any way that that fear might be well founded? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir; I think it would. I am thoroughly convinced that the control of such matters must be left with the central government. These matters were all under the official control of Gov. Martin, who is present in the room, and I hesitate to be apparently criticising. Senator LIPPITT. I think sometimes the best place to criticise a gentleman is when he is present and can answer.. Mr. GILBERT. I am not criticising him, but I am criticising that change. I saw a copy of a letter this morning written by Gov. Gen. Harrison-I received it this morning from Manila, sent by Gov. Gen. Harrison-relative to the locust situation, which. was written to the Secretary of War; this was sent out to Manila and they sent a copy back to me because there had been a question of veracity between a lawyer out there and the Governor General as to whether or not the locusts had destroyed a large part of a sugar estate. I saw a copy of this letter from the Governor General this morning in which he said he had been in error somewhat, and at least one-third of the sugar on that estate had been destroyed by locusts. Senator LIPPITT. We had that testimony. Mr. Fairchild testified about that the other day. Mr. GILBERT. About $1,000,000 worth of sugar was destroyed by locusts. Senator McLEAN. Four hundred thousand dollars' worth, I think he said. Senator LIPPITT. That letter also conveyed information with regard to rinderpest; is that it? Mr. GILBERT. It is not the letter from the Governor General, but another letter. Senator LIPPITT. Accompanying it? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. Senator LIPPITT. Would you object to putting that letter in your testimony? Mr. GILBERT. There is no objection at all. (The letter referred to is as follows:) MANILA, P. I., December 2, 1914. DEAR JUDGE: I inclose herewith copy of a letter written by Gov. Harrison to the Secretary of War in reference to the locust situation at Calamba, which I have just received from the Pacific Commercial Co.'s New York office. You are familiar with the matter up to this point, and you will see that, although the GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 609 J Governor General does not do it very gracefully, he does in this letter correct the previous statement which he made in reference to the damage done at Calamba by locusts. The letter is chiefly interesting as indicating the kind of information which the Secretary of war is getting from the Governor General in reference to the situation here. You will note that he says " the rinderpest situation seems well in hand and in much better shape in the last two weeks." I have gotten the records from the bureau of agriculture of the number of towns infected by rinderpest, and the following is the situation: On January 19 there were nine municipalities infected by rinderpest. With the withdrawal of the control of the rinderpest campaigns from the bureau of. agriculture and turning it over to the provincial governors, the number of towns infected by rinderpest gradually increased on February 16 to 16, March 2 to 19, March 3 to 26, April 27 to 32, May 18 to 35, June 15 to 33, June 29 to 43, July 6 to 49, July 13 to 50, and July 20 to 47. The letter of the Governor General is dated July 25, so that there had been an alarming increase in the number of towns infected up to within two weeks before the letter was written, and the way " the situation is well in hand " is that it was reduced three towns from the highest point, while when the Governor General's letter was written the number of towns infected was higher than it had been at any time since the great outbreak of rinderpest in Pangasinan in 1911. Faithfully, yours, EDWARD B. BRUCE. Hon. NEWTON W. GILBERT, Hotel Biltmore, New York City. Senator LIPPITT. Is it not a fact that the rinderpest, under the unhampered administration of the government, had almost been eradicated? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. We have had a terrible struggle with rinderpest ever since 1902, and the government has been trying to get rid of it. Various policies have been adopted. It came under my control during the last three or four years prior to my leaving the government, and we had finally gotten it, as I say, confined to nine municipalities but at the expense of a tremendous amount of money, amounting to some millions of pesos. Senator LIPPITT. But with results of great value? Mr. GILBERT. Certainly. There were Vine municipalities left on some date in February of last year-possibly 11, I am not quite sure-and they were nearly all in one Province. The Province of Pampanga. The control was then taken from the central bureau and put into the local provincial governments, and immediately it began to spread until, as I say, these figures, which I will put in the record if you desire, show 47 municipalities, I think. OFFICE GOVERNOR GENERAL OF PHILIPPINE ISLANDS, Manila, Juily 25, 1914j. MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: Referring to my cablegram to you of sever) I weeks ago about the rinderpest and locust campaign in the islands, I am glad to rep)rt that the rinderpest situation seems well in hand and in much better shape in the last two weeks. The locust situation has given us a great deal of trouble, and at times it seems as if there is no end to the swarms of locust. Now, all the Provinces infected are well organized, and I believe are able to cope with the situation, but considerable damage has been already done in certain sections. The Calamba sugar estate, which I mentioned in my cablegram, has since then suffered from further visitations of locusts. Vice Gov. Martin and I went out a week ago for a second visit to that estate, and they have certainly had hard luck. The acting chief of constabulary, after a personal inspection of the estate, and after conferring with the manager, reported to me that 30 per cent of their crop was destroyed for this year; the director of agriculture concurs; the proprietors of the estate themselves estimate it as high as 50 per cent. Since then we have authorized the expenditure of a sum of money in an antilocust campaign in the uncultivated regions near the Calamba estate. In the cultivated parts of the Provinces the people fight with a good deal of spirit against the 610 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. locusts, but it is difficult to get them to leave their fields and go out into the waste places where the locusts are bred. I hope this new campaign in the waste places will have some effect. Yours, respectfully, FRANCIS BURTON HARBISON. Hon. LINDLEY M. GARRISON, Secretary of War, Washington, D. C. Senator LIPPITT. That control was the result of an act of the legislature, was it? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. Senator LIPPITT. Of the Filipino Legislature? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. Senator LIPPITT. Do they not have to be agreed to by the commission? Mr. GILBERT. Well, the commission is part of the legislature. The assembly and the commission make the legislature. Senator McLEAN. The Governor could have vetoed it, could he not? Mr. GILBERT. No, sir; as I understand it, the Governor General has no veto power. Senator MCLEAN. He could have brought it to the attention of the American Congress in some way, could he not? Mr. GILBERT. Yes. My understanding is that the Governor General favored it as a part of the present policy, which is to give the Filipino a larger participation in the government. Senator LIPPITT. In order to allow them to learn the lessons? Mr. GILBERT. Let them learn the lessons, and reason from them. Senator LIPPITT. It would seem that with regard to this rinderpest it was one of the most serious mistakes they could make, because, as I understand the situation, in 1902 or 1903-if that is the right date-it had almost eradicated horned cattle from the islands. Mr. GILBERT. Certainly. Senator LIPPITT. And the fact of the industry improving there has been very largely due to the American success in the control of this rinderpest; is that not right? Mr. GILBERT. I think so. Senator LIPPITT. DO you, in your heart, think that is a very important matter? Mr. GILBERT. It is very important indeed, perhaps the most important matter as to industrial conditions in the islands. Senator LIPPITT. It struck me, on reading the record, that that was about one of the most important things in connection with the islands. Mr. GILBERT. I think they have spent 700,000 pesos a year for several years in their campaign, which is a considerable amount considering the'total revenues. Senator LIPPITT. The value of cattle on the islands is almost incalculable. Their industries could not go on without them, could they? Mr. GILBERT. No, sir; you see they do not use horses there for farming purposes and the cattle are very valuable. Senator WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, here is a table that has been prepared by Gen. McIntyre's office, giving the names of appointees by GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 611 the President and the Secretary of War, and the higher appointments by the Governor General, and I suggest that it be included in the record. The CHAIRMAN. Would you like to have it in the record or in the appendix? I was expecting to have a volume containing all of these documents together. Senator LIPPITT. Mr. Chairman, I think in this particular instance it would be a very good thing to have it go right into the record, because this is where it has been discussed. The CHAIRMAN. That will be done. (The paper referred to is as follows:) Higher personnel, Philippine service. APPOINTED BY THE PRESIDENT. Years in Years in Philip Philip Office. Occupant Jan. 1, 1913. pineser- Occupant July 1, 1914. pinese ice. ice. Governor General.................. W. Cameron Forbes... 8 'Francis B. Harrison... Philippine Commission: Secretary public instruction.... Newton W. Gilbert... 7 Henderson S. Martin.. 1 Secretary of interior............ Dean C. Worcester.... 13 Winfrsd T. Denison... 1 Secretary finance and justice... Gregorio Areneta...... 14 Victorino Mapa....... 13 Secretary commerce and police. Vacant................. Clinton L. Riggs...... 1 Member........................ J. R. da Luzuriaga.... 12 J. C. de Veyra........ 8 Do........................ Rafael Palma......... 4 Rafael Palma........ 6 Do......................... Juan Sumulon....... 5 Vicente Ilustre........ 1 Do...................... F. A. Branagan....... 13 Vicente Singson...... 13 Average years' service............................... 9.5........................ 5 Supreme court: Chief justice................... Cayetano S. Arellano.. 12 Cayetano S. Arellano.. 14 Associate justice............... Florentino Torres..... 14 Florentino Torres..... 15 Do....................... Victorino Mapa...... 11 Manuel Araullo....... 13 Do...................... E. Finley Johnson.... 12 E. Finley Johnson.... 13 Do......................... Adam C. Carson...... 12 Adam C. Carson....13 Do.....................- Sherman Moreland.... 4 Sherman Moreland... 5 Do........................ Grant T. Trent....... 12 Grant T. Trent...... 13 Average years' service................................... 11..................12 APPOINTED BY THE SECRETARY OF WAR. Auditor............................ Wm. H. Phipps....... 2 Clifford H. French.... 13 Treasurer......................... Jeremiah L. Manning. 11 Jeremiah L. Manning. 13 Average years' service................................ 6....................... 13 APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR GENERAL. Executive secretary............... Attorney general................... Director civil service............... Director of health.................. Director of lands................... Director of science.................. Director of forestry................ Director weather bureau........... Director constabulary.............. Director public works.............. Director of navigation.............. Director of posts................... Director coast and geodetic......... Frank W. Carpenter 2. Ignacio Villamnor a..... H. L. Falconer....... Victor G. Heiser...... Chas. H. Sleeper...... Alvin J. Cox......... George P. Ahern...... Jose Algue........... Harry H. Bandholtz 4. W. Greene............ F. P. Helm.......... C. M. ('otterman 5..... P. A. Welker........ 14 12 12 8 14 7 14 14 11 3 9 12 2 Ignacio Villamor.... Ramon Avancefla.... B. L. Falconer........ Victor G. Heiser..... Manuel Tinio......... Alvin J. Cox.......... George P. Ahern...... Jose Algue........... Wallace C. Taylor..... W. Greene............ Abolished........... Wm. T. Nolting....... W. C. Hodgkins....... 13 12 14 9 7 8 15 15 13 4 15 1 I I Appointed secretary of finance and justice. ' Appointed governor of the department of Mindanao and Sulu. 8 Appointed executive secretary. 4 Relieved to join his regiment in Army pursuant to act of Congress. 6 Detailed by the United States Coast and Geodetic Survey. 73560-PT 9-15 ---3.s 612 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Higher personnel, Philippine service-Continued. APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR GENERAL-Continued. Years in Years in Office. Occupant Jan. 1, 1913. hlip Occupant July 1, 1914. Phi pine serv- pine serv. ice. ice. Director of labor............. Collector of customs............... Collector internal revenue......... Director of education............... Director of Agriculture............. Director of prisons................ Director of printing.............. Insular purchasing agent.......... Manuel Tinio l....... H. B. McCoy........ Wm. T. Nolting 2..... Frank R. White a..... F. W. Taylor......... Mortimer L. Stewart.. John S. Leech........ E. G. Shields.......... 5 12 14 11 1 11 12 13 B. G. Monreal......... B. Herstein........... J. J. Rafferty.......... Frank L. Crone....... H. T. Edwards....... W. H. Dade........... Edw. E. Gessler....... E. G. Shields.......... Average years service................. 10........................ I....: Judges of courts of first instance: JUdg —............. --- —-—. Do......................... Do........................ Do......................... D o......................... D o....................... Do........................ D o......................... Do......................... Do......................... D o......................... Do........................ Do........................ Do........................ Do......................... Do......................... D o......................... Do......................... D o......................... Do........................ Do......................... Do......................... Do......................... Do........................ Do......................... Do......................... Do........................ Do......................... Do......................... Do......................... Do......................... Do........................ Do......................... Do......................... Do........................ D o......................... Average years' service.... Judges of court of land registration: Judge.......................... Do......................... Do......................... Do6......................... C. D. Johnston........ D. Chanco............ Jas. C. Jenkins........ Julio Llorente......... A. Barretto........... Vicente Jocson....... Mariano Cui 4......... Percy M. Moir........ John S. Powell....... Albert E. McCabe.... A. Wislizenus........ Ramon Avancena..... Vicente Nepomuceno.. Chas. A. Low......... F. Santamaria........ Jose Abreu............ Richard Campbell.... Higinio Benitez....... H. D. Gale............ George N. Hurd..... Ysidro Paredes....... S. del Rosario......... C. S. Lobingier........ A. S. Crossfield....... 12 13 9 12 10 9 11 12 12 13 10 11 10 5 12 11 10 14 12 11 12 10 9 12 C. D. Johnston........ D. Chanco............ Jas. C. Jenkins........ Julio Llorente......... A. Barretto........... Vicente Jocson........ J. P. Weissenhagen... Percy M. Moir........ John S. Powell........ H. Reyes............. A. Wislizenus......... Manuel Camus........ Vicente Nepomuceno.. S. del Rosario......... F. Santamaria........ Jose Abreu......... Richard Campbell.... Higinio Benitez....... Pedro Concepcion..... George N. Hurd...... Ysidro Paredes....... S. del rTosario........ Wm. M. Connor....... Jesse George......... W. E. McMahon...... N. Ronualdez......... Andres Borromeo..... Jas. R. Burgett....... M. del Rosario........ Fernando Salas....... Cayetano Lukban.... Fermin Mariano..... Tomas Flordeliza..... Vicente Miranda...... George R. Harvey.... Jas. S. Ostrand....... 12 1 13 13 13 3 13 14 10 13 14 10 13 11 10 10 13 12 11 12 15 12 12 13 12 12 15 9 12 13 11 13 15 2 13 8.......... 12 4.......... 5 1 13 5........................................................................................................................................................................................................................ 11 10 3 7 13 12 9........................I 11 Chas. H. Smith...... Jas. A. Ostrand 65..... Pedro Concepcion a.... Jesse George 3........ N. Romuladez a............................................................................................................................... Average year's service............................ 1 Appointed director of lands. 2 Appointed director of posts. 8 Deceased. 4 Appointed president, board of public utility commissioners. 6 Appointed judge of court of first instance July 1, 1914. The CHAIRMAN. Were you in the islands in 1907? Mr. GLBERT. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Was there complaint at that time about a good many changes in the civil service? GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 613 Mr. GILBERT. I do not recall it. I was not then on the commission. I was then on the bench. I had a roving commission, just like an itinerant preacher-I went around from place to place. I never heard of it. There may have been complaints. The CHAIRMAN. Let me read you an extract from the report of the director of the civil service for the Philippine Islands for the year ending June 30, 1907: It is a matter of regret to report that the percentage of withdrawals from the service of competent and desirable men has been greater during the past year or two than theretofore, while there have been fewer separations of the incompetent and undesirable. On January 1, 1907, there were 2,616 Americans having regular appointments in the service. During the fiscal year ended June 30, 1907, approximately 500 Americans resigned, about double the number withdrawing from the service during the preceding fiscal year. Of the 500, over 100 were university or college graduates, including scientists, civil engineers, surveyors, physicians, teachers, and subordinate officials, as against 40 university or college graduates for the preceding year. Of the remaining 400, a considerable number were graduates of high or normal schools. The loss to the government of these trained and experienced men is in many instances irreparable. Good men were evidently discouraged, and apparently lost hope that the Philippine public service promised a career which would justify their remaining in it. Whatever the cause, the withdrawal of so many competent Americans is greatly to be regretted, and suggests that encouraging conditions must prevail or welltrained and efficient young men will continue to leave the service, and the hope of establishing firmly a dignified and efficient civil service in these islands composed of men above mediocrity and grafting tendencies must be abandoned, to the detriment of good government and to the disappointment of the friends of civil-service reform. Now, was there any improvement over that condition after that time? Senator LIPPITT. Who reported that, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. That is the report of the director of civil service made June 30, 1907. Mr. GILBERT. Dr. Washburn probably was then director. I think there has been a good deal of that difficulty all the time. If a man is a good manThe CHAIRMAN. My point is that that indicated that the civil service did get into a bad condition and might justify the action of Gov. Gen. Harrison in making a good many removals -when he went in? Mr. GILBERT. I understood that to be the complaint; that the good men were leaving the service because they could find better employment outside, and that the poorer men were staying. Senator CRAWFORD. Was it not also due to the fact that the policy was to replace these Americans as rapidly as possible by Filipinos, where they could give the Filipinos a chance to fill a position, although he might not fill it quite as well as the American? Mr. GILBERT. The policy has always been, as I understand it, by the Governors General, including the present one, to fill up the service with Filipinos as rapidly as they thought it was possible, and you will find that each year the percentage of Filipinos has increased in number and amount of salary. Senator CRAWFORD. And, correspondingly, the number of Americans in the civil service has decreased? Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir; the total number, I think, of civil-service people is greater than it used to be. Gov. Harrison has gone 614 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. faster in that direction than any other governor. That is all I will say about that. Senator LIPPITT. Do you agree with this feeling of the director of the civil service, in which he is lamenting the withdrawal of college graduates and trained Americans from the civil service, in which he goes so far as to say, " The loss to the government of these trained and experienced men is in many instances irreparable?" Mr. GILBERT. I agree with it thoroughly. Senator LIPPITT. Then if it was a great loss to the service to have these trained men withdrawing voluntarily, is it not at least an equal loss to the service to have trained men discharged arbitrarily? Mr. GILBERT. Oh, yes, sir. The loss to the service has been tremendous; there is no doubt about that. Senator LIPPITT. This report says, " Good men were evidently discouraged and apparently lost hope that the Philippine public service promised a career which would justify their remaining in it." Did that feeling of discouragement at the possibility of the service affording a career have anything to do with the activity of the campaign for independence, do you suppose? Mr. GILBERT. Well, the campaign for independence is not fully understood here. Senator LIPPITT. I mean the campaign that is understood herethe campaign on this side of the water. Mr. GILBERT. Undoubtedly the campaign for independence has had a very close and intimate relation with the holding of offices under the civil service, and beyond that there is a very great-I want to take the opportunity to say it, if I may, that the desire for independence is far from universal among the Filipino peoplevery far. I think I know something about that. I have been intimately associated with the Filipino people; I talk Spanish, not so well, but well enough to understand them, and recently there has a very curious thing arisen. Formerly all the Filipinos of propertywell, not all, but a large number of them-were against independence. Recently there has been added to them another faction-a new party organized out there. They have organized a Democratic Party there in the last two or three months. They are not so sure they want this bill. They are for independence, I think; they are not so sure they want this bill. I have been talking to the leaders of the party and they tell me these Filipinos already think they see a strengthening of the hands of the particular party which happens to be in power there now, and they will secure all the people to get upon the salary list. So that opposition is now added to the opposition of the property owners generally. The CHAIRMAN. I want to ask you, with regard to that deplorable condition of the civil service which is indicated by that report of the Director of Civil Service of June, 1907, was that deplorable condition improved? There was a deplorable condition of the civil service at that time as shown officially by that report. Mr. GILBERT. I can not answer as to that particular matter. There has always been that difficulty in the civil service that men were not sure they had a career, and when they saw an opportunity to get more salary or a position that they thought was more permanent, they would leave. The tendency, of course, has been for the best men to GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 615 leave, as I take it, is always true in the civil service. There has been that feeling all the time. Then, they were not sure they could stay if they wanted to very long. Every time there was some sort of political agitation they saw danger to their positions, and they said, *' We may have to get out, and we had better get out while we are young. We have been away from home five years, and in five more years we may not be able to get a job." The CHAIRMAN. So that there is nothing new about this suggestion of the demoralized condition of the public service? Mr. GILBERT. No, sir; it is not new. It is simply increased. The CHAIRMAN. Now, let me read you an extract from an editorial in the Capital Cable News of January 25, 1908. This was also at the time you were there, and under your administration, and under, I think probably, Mr. Wright's. Was Mr. Wright then the GoveriLor General? Mr. GILBERT. No; I think Gov. Smith was at that time. The CHAIRMAN. The editorial is as follows: Is not the filling of places with Filipinos the prime reason for resignations? Is not the Government policy of appointing and promoting natives to all offices they can occupy the real irritant? Is not this the pall over the civil service? The salaries here are not large. They might be raised 10 per cent and still be within fair limits. The work is onerous because to a degree strange. New conditions confront all responsible men daily. Politics play a larger part in the conduct of offices than in the civil service in the United States. One has to watch one's p's and q's more closely than at home. Expenses are higher. Traveling is costly. Family life is not as agreeable. But if there was assurance of one's keeping one's position, of lineal or merit promotion, of liberal or at least fair dealings on the part of the Government, why then an American clerk might consider this his home and might settle down to earn that proposed pension. But what are the facts? The desire to please this or that faction of Filipinos, to pull this or that string, to tickle Taft or to let Taft tickles Tomas or Timoteo, undoes the aspiration of a dozen Americans and lifts a native into an office over the heads of capable and loyal servants who have come 10,000 miles to labor in these islands. I want to ask you whether that editorial published in that paper in 1908 did not indicate that there was the same agitation and complaint over the civil service that you have now brought to the attention of the committee? Mr. GILBERT. I think it is quite different there now, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. This article states that "politics plays a larger part in the conduct of offices than in the civil service in the United States. One has to watch one's p's and q's more closely than at home," etc. Mr. GILBERT. That does not mean Democratic and Republican politics. That means local politics. The CHAIRMAN. Whose administration was that under? Mr. GILBERT. I think that was Governor General Smith, who lives here in the city, and who could be interviewed. I do not vouch for the editorial in the Cablenews. I think it was owned then by a different party than at present. It was edited by a different man, I know. I do not know what the man had in mind. The CHAIRMAN. It was not pro-Filipino evidently. It was not favorable to the Filipino. Mr. GILBERT. I do not know about that. The CHAIRMAN. It criticizes the idea of Filipinos in office. 616 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Senator LIPPITT. Do you think those statements in editorials are very strong evidence of what existed? There was nothing official about that, was there? Mr. GILBERT. I do not want to be bound by anything that is contained in an editorial in any paper either there or here. Senator CRAWFORD. Was not the condition of frequent resignations and leaving the service there largely due to the fact that young men who entered the civil service, and who went away off 10,000 miles from home, after being there for several years became homesick and felt that they would like to get back to their home country, with the opportunities for a career here, with more pleasant surroundings and a more congenial life than they had there? Did not that contribute to this situation? Mr. GILBERT. That contributed a great deal. I have had men come to my office and say " I am going to resign and go home."' But the thing they usually mentioned was this: " I do not see any permanent career here. About the time we begin to feel settled here some gentleman at home introduces a resolution in Congress that would change the political status, and then for six months we all are up in the air." So these young men felt tht ththey were losing their opportunity, their youth, that presently they would be middle-aged and have no place to land. Senator LIPPITT. In other words, you mean this agitation for independence has interfered with the efficiency of the service? Mr. GILBERT. Very much indeed. Every time a resolution was introduced here it was noticeable. The CHAIRMAN. Was there anything introduced in 1906, 1907, 1908, or 1909? Mr. GILBERT. I think there was. The CHAIRMAN. Do you recall any? Mr. GILBERT. I think there has been nearly every year. I do not recall by years. I think there was about that time. Senator LIPPITr. I would like to ask, this list that you give of these changes in the service refers to voluntary withdrawals? Mr. GILBERT. This refers to both, I think. Senator LIPPITT. I know. It refers to both, but it refers to voluntary. I understand from the testimony you have given that some at least of those voluntary withdrawals as they are listed are people who have resigned by request. Mr. GILBERT. I do not say by request. Senator LIPPITT. Mr. Ferguson testified to that a few moments ago, that that list included also those whose resignation had been suggested, but because they had resigned they were put down there as voluntary withdrawals. In the previous years before Mr. Harrison came were there many resignations from that cause, or were the voluntary resignations the absolutely voluntary act of the men withdrawing? Mr. GILBERT. I do not recall any of that kind at all. Of course under all the previous Governors General there have been men who have resigned upon direct request, but there has been nobody so far as I can recall put in a position where he felt his honor or his dignity required him to resign. There may be such cases. Senator LIPPITT. For what reason were men asked to resign? GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 617 Mr. GILBERT. Because in the opinion of their chief, the Governor General, or the head of their department they were not doing satisfactory work. Senator CRAWFORD. You do not regard the situation as peculiar to the Filipinos that men holding civil-service positions are constantly making complaints, and asking for promotions, and expressing discontent because they are not advanced more rapidly, and intimating that some one has a pull that he ought not to have, and some one else is being preferred over them? I have heard a good deal of that right here in the city of Washington. Mr. GILBERT. There is much less of it in the Philippine Islands than there was in the city of Washington when I was here in Congress. Senator CRAWFORD. So that an editorial like that in this paper might have been put in one of the newspapers here by some of these organizations that are asking for increases of salaries in Washington? Mr. GILBERT. Yes. I have no criticism to make of our people in that regard. They might put it in here as well. In fact I would like to state again, because I see Mr. Martin has entered the room, that I have no criticism of this whole policy. I do not think it becomes me to criticize that in view of the fact that I turned the Government over to the present Governor General. I have no desire to say a word that appears like criticism of the gentleman who succeeded me because of a political situation. Others may, but I do not care to do it. The CHAIRMAN. Col. Young, will you take the chair? You are called at the request of Senator Reed. STATEMENT OF COL. GEORGE S. YOUNG, UNITED STATES ARMY. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Reed had some conversation with you, and thought you would be able to assist the committee with some views you had formed as the result of your stay in the Philippine Islands. Col. YOUNG. I have not any idea what line Senator Reed desired me to pursue, or anything of that kind. I simply had service in the Philippine Islands as many other officers had. The CHAIRMAN. How long were you there? Col. YOUNG. I spent four years and seven months there. The CHAIRMAN. When were you last there? Col. YOUNG. I came back in 1912 from my last trip. I went in 1909 on my last tour and returned in May, 1912. The CHAIRMAN. Did you form any very definite idea as to the capacity of the Filipino people for self-government? Col. YOUNG. Well, from observation. The CHAIRMAN. What conclusion did you come to? Col. YOUNG. My conclusion was that they were not at that time ready for self-government. Neither did I observe that a great many of them desired it. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you located in the islands? Col. YOUNG. I was in the Island of Mindanao. I was down among the wild people-largely among the Moros. That is a very large group of islands about 900 miles south of Manila. 618 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. The CHAIRMAN. Can you tell the committee what are the relations now between the Moro people and the Christian Filipinos? Col. YOUNG. There is quite a line of division between the two peoples-the Filipino people and the Moro people. In my opinion they do not affiliate at all. They are qijte a different class of people. The Moros are rather a haughty people, a very proud people. In other words, they want to be let alone. That has been their life. I think they resent any occupation there or any control that would be exercised over them. Especially do I think that the Moros would dispute any control which a Filipino might attempt to exercise over them. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any Filipino officials at the present time among the Moros, or were there? Col. YOUNG. I beg your pardon. The CHAIRMAN. Were there some Filipino officials-officials of the Filipino government-among the Moros while you were there? Col. YOUNG. The Moro government, while I was there, was exercised by the military authority under Gen. Pershing, under whom I worked there at that time. I had charge of the district known as the Lanao district. That extended from a place called Iligan on the north over to a place called Malabang. That was known as the trail through Lake Lanao. I think I had in the neighborhood of 30,000 to 40,000 of those people to control or look after. I had that for about a year or a little more. The CHAIRnMAN. How large a force did you have? Col. YOUNG. Well, I had such a force as became necessary-that conditions required. I usually traveled through there sometimes with a few people, depending on the nature of the country that I had to pass through. Sometimes I would take a few constabulary soldiers with me. If I was going into a pretty bad section I sometimes took half a dozen American soldiers with me. The Moros did not always understand why we were there, and it was very hard to convince them why we were there and what we were doing. Oftentimes I could not make them understand I was there on a friendly mission, which was generally my visit at that time, not always to engage in a fight with them. Where I lived you could get a fight every 15 minutes if you wanted it. The CHAIRMAN. Were they permitted to have arms? Col. YOUNG. They did not have firearms. They had all kinds of cutting instruments such as bolos, spears, and krisses-all the knives of the race, which were, as we thought, as dangerous as a firearm or gun. The CHAIRMAN. How do they make those knives? Col. YOUNG. Usually they are very ingenious people. They make them themselves. Sometimes they trade for them. Oftentimes they kill people and take them from them. They are all well supplied with them, however. The CHAIRMAN. Were there any Filipinos resident among the Moros there? Col. YOUNG. Oh, yes; there were a good many-that is, I would not say a good many, but quite a number. The CHAIRMAN. What were they engaged in? Col. YOUNG. For instance, they would go to a town like Zamboanga, or Jolo, or any of the large cities in that section-which is GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 619 the Moro section. Many of them had moved there. Many of them had been, perhaps, born there. I do not know. They had no real occupations. Some of them had some little garden spots and things of that kind. They worked for Americans there. They usually followed the American people wherever'they went. The CHAIRMAN. They dwelt together peaceably with the Moros, did they? Col. YOUNG. They did within certain bounds; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Was there some violence? Col. YOUNG. Oh, yes; a good deal. The CHAIRMAN. How was that punished? Col. YOUNG. They had their courts, their municipal courts, and a lesser court known as the tribal ward. I had what you call a governor's palace, which was a little grass house, and we had a tribal ward justice there, for the trial of minor offenses. These people were brought in if they would steal a carabao or steal the product of a man who had a farm, or if they would steal their children or their wives, or something of that kind, and run off with them. Then we had to overtake those people and bring them back and try them in these tribal ward courts. Senator CAMDEN. Which is the stronger race physically, the Moros or the Filipinos? Col. YOUNG. The Moros are very strong. Senator CAMDEN. Their characteristics are very different? Col. YOUNG. Very different. Senator LIPPITT. What years are you talking about? Col. YOUNG. I am talking about 1909 to 1912. Senator LIPPTTT. Comparatively recently, then? Col. YOUNG. Yes, sir; comparatively recent. Senator CAMDEN. Intellectually, which race is the more capable? Col. YOUNG. The educated Moro is not very numerous. They are a strong race physically. When you find a man of about one-third Chinese blood he is a very remarkable man. One man in my section controls the whole country known as the Cottabato River district. He was a man by the name of Piang. IIe was a most powerful man. When he spoke the people simply stepped aside and did anything that he bade them to do. He had the most wonderful control over them, more wonderful than any one could imagine. The CHAIRMAN. Was that because of the intellectual power? Col. YOUNG. No; it was simply more a matter of force over a people by his manner, his general authority which he assumed. He was the dato of this great country in there. Senator MCLEAN. Do you think he would be opposed to Filipino independence Col. YOUNG. Yes, sir; provided the Filipino exercised control over the Moro. Senator MCLEAN. Now, assuming that giving the Filipinos their independence would give them, of course, control of all the inhabitants of the Philippine Islands, then what would you say? Col. YOUNG. I do not think the Filipinos could live in the Moro country. Senator CAMDEN. Would that giving of independence to the Philippine Islands give the Moros independence? 620 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Col. YOUNG. The Moros do not know anything about independence. Senator CAMDEN. Would they not be all on the same footing with them Senator MCLEAN. They are not proposing to establish two independent sovereignties there? Senator CAMDEN. No; but if independence was given to the entire islands. Is not that the idea? Senator MCLEAN. The question I asked was whether the Moros would consider Philippine independence as independence for the Moros? Col. YOUNG. The Moro country has been known as the No Man's land. They do not know or care to know anything about anything like independence. Senator MCLEAN. You have associated some with the Filipinos on the island of Luzon? Col. YOUNG. Yes. Senator MCLEAN. I think when you began your testimony you said they were not all in favor of independence? Col. YOUNG. I was speaking of the Filipino people; that is, all of those that I heard talk on the subject. I did not hear very much about it. I never heard of them crying for independence. Senator MCLEAN. You are speaking now of the Filipinos in Manila? Col. YOUNG. Yes. The Moros never mentioned such a thing, except that if there was such a thing as independence they would not be controlled by the Filipinos. Senator CRAWFORD. Supposing the whole archipelago was given independence and the authority of the United States absolutely removed, and the Filipinos dominated the government at Manila, passed laws and undertook to maintain order, and issued decrees to those Moros and attempted to enforce them, what success would such a government have, so far as it related to the Moros? Col. YOUNG. In my opinion, the Moros would not receive it at all. I do not think it could be enforced. Senator LIPPITT. You mean there would be fighting? Col. YOUNG. Immediately. Senator CAMDEN. What is the relative population of the Filipinos and the Moros? How do they compare relatively? Col. YOUNG. Down in the Moro country I think it is almost impossible to get a census of the Moro people, because they live out in the hills, you know. You can not get at them. You cah not find them. Senator MCLEAN. You are a soldier. Do you think the Moros would be successful in their resistance to the Filipinos? Col. YOUNG. I think they would. Senator CAMDEN. That was the question I was trying to get at in asking as to the relative population. Col. YOUNG. The population of the Moro Province is something like-it would be anywhere from 250,000 to 500,000. I think probably 400,000 Moros would be the population, although there may be more. Senator CAMDEN. How many different races or tribes, whatever you call them, exist in those islands? GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 621 Col. YOUNG. Well, I would not like to say. I think there are several hundred. While they more or less affiliate, except the Moros and the Filipinos, they all speak a different language. Senator CAMDEN. Who would control the most of the savage tribes, the Moros or the Filipinos? Col. YOUNG. The Filipinos are not a tribe. The Moros are tribal. For instance, many of the datos have a certain number of men who are in what they call their barrio. That is, a little town. That may be anywhere from 100 to 500 or 1,000 people. He controls those people and he knows everybody in that town. Therefore he is the man you would look to. For instance, if a Moro would conlmit a crime I would go to the dato and hold him responsible to deliver me this man, and he knows this. That is where the dato is a good man, because you can alwavs locate vour people through him. Senator CAMDEN. Suppose the da'to did not deliver the man? Col. YOUNG. Then I would just go and take him. Senator CAMDEN. You would take the criminal? Col. YOUNG. Sometimes I would take the dato, too. Senator CAMDEN. What would you do with him? Col. YOUNG. I would take him and put him in jail. Senator CAMDEN. That is the method of administering justice down there, to hold the dato responsible for the people under him? Col. YOUNG. To hold him responsible. Usually that works very well. They may be a little obstreperous, but it has been easy to handle them after awhile. Senator CAMDEN. What was the government that they were responsible to before the Americans came there? Col. YOUNG. They are all Mohammedans. Senator CAMDEN. I know; but I mean that the dato was the head of the village. Col. YOUNG. To the chief of the Sulu Islands-the Sulu group. Senator CAMDEN. Then the Moros had some head to their government? Col. YOUNG. In a way; yes. Senator CAMDEN. Were they under Spanish control? Col. YOUNG. Yes. Thev always fought the Spaniards, of course. The Spaniards never could subjugate the Moro because he is too hard a fighter. A Moro thinks no more of a life than we do of throwing away a piece of paper. It is born in him simply to fight, he loves it, he likes to do it, he likes to kill people. There is no way to scare him. They will come at you in very small numbers often until they find there is no help for them, then they will get away. They are a very brave and independent people. The CHAIRMAN. Why have they been so tractable under American control? Col. YOUNG. I think that was due to the fact that they were properly handled, and properly dealt with. I think under Gen. Pershing's administration in the Moro Province that more progress has been made with them than at any time since the occupation of the islands. Gen. Pershing fully understands the people and deals with them properly, and is very careful how he handles them. Senator MCLEAN. Do the children go to school? 622 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Col. YOUNG. They go to school. I established many schools in my district. In some towns I had to have the capacity of the schoolhouses doubled in order to take the pupils. They take to it very nicely up to a certain point. Senator CAMDEN. Do you think they are capable of being civilized according to our ideas? Col. YOUNG. I hardly think so. The CHAIRMAN. How do they compare with the Amnerican Indian in that respect, as susceptible to civilization? Col. YOUNG. I think they are quite different from the Indians. I have had a good deal of experience with the Indians, and they are not a people who ever cared for or took any interest in educational pursuits at all. An Indian was tractable if you made him so. I helped to capture Sitting Bull, for instance. I was one of the first white people that ever saw him. I was present at the conference after his capture. He said: " You have got me, and I am here because my living gave out. You have killed the buffalo and I have nothing further to live on. Therefore I am willing to give in to the Government, but I have never asked the Government to give me anything and never would if my subsistence had lasted." Therefore circumstances required him to give up. That is the difference between the Indian. The Moro, of course, does not have to give up, because he is living his life in his own country. All he has to do is to pull a banana off a tree or a coconut and he has enough to eat. Senator CRAwFORD. And his clothing is very inexpensive, of course Col. YOUNG. He does not need any clothing. Senator LIPPITT. Do they wear any clothing? Col. YOUNG. They wear some sort of a breech clout, a dishrag. Oftentimes they do not wear any at all. The children very seldom wear clothes; they go perfectly naked. Senator CRAWFORD. Is this education that you say you are giving them really education? Is it not like teaching a parrot? Does it really get hold of their minds? Col. YOUNG. No; I do not think so. I think they take this education because it is offered to them. There are, however, some very bright children over there, and they go to a certain extent with it. As far as the boys are concerned who go to school, I think their interest in school is largely due to the fact that they think it will give them something that will ease up their life a little so they will not have to work in the fields or work anywhere. They think it may give them a job as school teacher or some clerical position. I think it is all they are working for. Senator CRAWFORD. Can they fill clerical positions? Col. YOUNG. In a way. The CHAIRMAN. You are speaking now of the Filipino and not the Moro? Col. YOUNG. I am speaking now of the Filipino. The Moros will never fill clerical positions. Senator CRAWFORD. I was speaking of the Moros. I was speaking in regard to the education of the Moros. Col. YOUNG. No; the Moros do not take to education so far as my experience goes. GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 623 - Senator CRAWFORD. Do they really get the meaning of education? Col. YoUNG. Not only do they not get it, but I do not think they want to get it. They want to live there and be let alone. They told me freely that we have not any business there; that they wanted us to get out of there. They said that they could take care of themselves; that they were all right before we came; and will be all right again. Senator CRAWFORD. That is, they are perfectly content with their lot?. Col. YOUNG. They are perfectly content with their lot and happy. They have little patches of ground. They raise some rice and corn. There is plenty of fruit in the country. That is all they want. Senator LIPPITT. Are they fighting among themselves much? Col. YOUNG. Yes; I can not say much. They do occasionally, a little more than an ordinary community would, of course. Senator LIPPITT. I mean real violence, where they kill each other. Col. YOUNG. Yes; they do. Senator CRAWFORD. Do they have head hunters down there? Col. YOUNG. Yes; the Moros have head hunters there. Senator LIPPITT. Among the Moros? Col. YOUNG. Yes; among the Moros. Senator LIPPITT. I thought the head hunting was confined to the hill tribes in Luzon. Col. YOUNG. If you had a bad man and you were looking for him you would get a head hunter and let him go and get him for you. Senator CRAWFORD. He will get his head for you? Col. YOUNG. Well, I had a bad man to get. I had to have him. I had been chasing him a long time. They sent me a couple of men whom they said could get him, but it would take a little time. After a time they came back and said that they had him. The leader came in and said he would bring him in. When he brought him in I told him to put the body in a shed that I had off my office so as not to attract any more attention than necessary. When I came to look at it I could not find the body. The hunter said he had him in a sack. I went and got the sack and turned it upside down and two heads rolled out. I asked him why he did that. He said it was too heavy to carry, and that was the easiest way to get him. Senator LIPPITT. What year was this? Col. YOUNG. Two years and a half ago. Senator CRAWFORD. You do not think they are ready for democracy, then? Col. YOUNG. No. Senator LIPPITT. I think I would.like to hear a little more about this. The CHAIRMAN. Was this a Moro that they went in search of? Col. YOUNG. He was an outlaw. He was out in the hills. His occupation was to come in and kill people just for amusement, for something to do. Senator LIPPITT. Are they in the habit of getting very much amusement Col. YOUNG. He seemed to. He came into a little town where I was and killed a Chinaman. He just walked right into the house and cut him all to pieces. I tried my best to get him with the constabu . 624 GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. lary. Finally we had to get other natives to find him. They located him, and these men got into a hand-to-hand fight with him and killed him. The CHAIRMAN. You said they brought in two heads. Were they a little in doubt as to who was the right man? Col. YOUNG. Well, this man had a partner, with him. They were not sure which was the right man, so they took them both. They brought in one more for good measure. Sentor LIPPITT. You spoke a while ago of the fights between the Moros and Filipinos; that the Moros would carry off the women and children occasionally. Col. YOUNG. I did not mean to say that they carried off the Filipino women and children, but a Moro, for instance, will, as they say, fall in love with a Moro girl, some dato's daughter, a beautiful girl. He has not got the necessary recommendations and qualifications for marriage. He must show what he has got. He must own some carabao or he must have killed somebody. He must do something to show that he can get this girl. If he does not do that he thinks he must get the girl anyhow, and he will run off to somebody else's bario. There we have to go to get him. I have to bring them into my office and divorce them, send the girl back and send the man back to his place. I used to do that almost every day. Senator CAMDEN. What is their marriage ceremony? Do they have a real ceremony? Col. YOUNG. Not exactly; nothing special. It is an arrangement between the parents. For instance, they may be children 12 years old, a boy and a girl of parents who are well to do. The parents will decide that these two children must marry, and they will just keep them under what we would term in this country a governess or something of that kind, until they grow up to be 15 or 16 years old. I have seen plenty of them married at 15 years. The CHAIRMAN. Reno, Nev., as a divorcecolony, was not in it as compared to your office? Col. YOUNG. Not much. There was not much formality about it. Senator LIPPITT. You say these were people you were in the habit of divorcing every day. Were people in the habit of getting promiscuously married every day and you had to divorce them every day? Col. YOUNG. Provided the parents objected. They did not always object. If a man came to me and said that another man had come into his place and taken his daughter and ran away with her, and that he wanted him punished for it and wanted his daughter sent home, I would send out and bring them in. Oftentimes they would not want to come. Senator LIPPITT. Then, the grounds for divorce in the Philippine Islands is that the parents do not like it? Col. YOUNG. That is about it. It is just purely a matter of consent. The CHAIRMAN. Does polygamy prevail there? Col. YOUNG. I do not know that you would call it polygamy. I know one man who has 9 or 10 wives and about 30 children. That is this old dato Piang that I spoke of. He has a perfect colony. The CHAIRMAN. There is no limit on the number of wives? Col. YOUNG. No. GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. * 625 Senator LIPPITT. Does that apply to the head man or to everybodly Col. YOUNG. I think that is largely the head men. Senator LIPPITT. It is rather hard to make a distinction? Col. YOUNG. Yes. Senator LIPPITT. But the ordinary man has one wife? Col. YOUNG. One is enough for him. He has one wife, but they live in little colonies-families. The CHAIRMAN. Of course these answers that you have made about polygamy and head-hunting are confined entirely to the Moro country that you were in, in Mindanao? Col. YOUNG. Oh, yes; that is part of their life. It has always been done and will continue. Senator CRAWFORD. What do you think about enforcing the declaration of this bill prohibiting polygamy among the Moros? Col. YOUNG. Whenever you start in to enforce or interfere with the rights or habits or the religious customs of the Moro people your trouble begins right there. My idea is to let the Moro alone, and let him go right along as he has been doing all his life. He is a happy, contented person. You have got to watch him. He will kill you sometimes just for the sake of having something to do, and.yet some of them are very attractive. Senator CRAWFORD. Seriously speaking, these Moros will encounter as little danger of being subjugated by some other power in case we withdraw our control from the islands and have their domestic affairs interfered with by outside influences as any people in the Philippine Islands, will they not, simply because of their power to maintain their own independence? Col. YOUNG. They live in their own distinct territory down there. There has always been more or less of a dividing line. Mindanao is the home of the Moro, of course. That is the big island. The Filipinos who have gone in there, who have drifted in there, live there on sufferance. Their safety has been largely due to the presence of the Americans there. Senator CRAWFORD. The Moro controls the island of Mindanao, does he? Col. YOUNG. Yes; he does; under the leadership of a very powerful man by the name of Mandi, who is the leader of the whole Moro nation. Senator LIPPITT. How did he happen to get control-by heredity Col. YOUNG. By heredity. Senator CRAWFORD. In your opinion, so far as the Moro is concerned, it makes very little difference whether we stay in the Philippines or remove our influence from the Philippines entirely? As far as he is concerned it will make as little difference to him as any people there? Col. YOUNG. He will never know it. Senator CAMDEN. Will not that same thing apply to the Igorottes, all those wild people that are inaccessible, who live up in the hillsT Col. YOUNG. Yes. Senator LIPPITT. But not the Igorottes, so much? Col. YOUNG. They are all quite different, of course, from the Filipino. As far as any action on independence would interest them they would never know anytlig about it. 626 ' GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Senator CAMDEN. What is the percent of population of the Filipinos through those islands? Col. YOUNG. There are about a million and a half. There are about 8,000,000, guessing at it, in the Philippine Islands. I think it is a million and a half Filipinos. Senator CAMDEN. They are the only ones who have any semblance of civilization? Col. YOUNG. The Filipino? Senator CAMDEN. Yes. Col. YOUNG. Yes. Senator LIPPITT. What was that answer-that there was a million and a half Filipinos, or a million and a half Moros? Col. YOUNG. That is a guess. I say that I think there are 8,000,000 altogether of different tribes of people in the Philippine Islands, and I believe it is a million and a half Filipinos. Senator CRAWFORD. SO far as these Moros are concerned, what good has been accomplished by our keeping a constabulary down there and keeping officers of the American Army there? Col. YOUNG. It keeps down the possibility of a clash between the Moro and the Filipino. Senator CRAWFORD. That is practically its only purpose, then? Col. YOUNG. We have now withdrawn every American soldier from the island of Mindanao. I do not think there is one down there. We had them there at every post, and we have now put the entire administration of affairs there in the hands of the civil government. They have a civil governor, and they have scouts and a constabulary. They occupy the posts which we abandoned. Senator CRAWFORD. Who is this civil governor; is he a Filipino? Col. YOUNG. No; he is an American. I think it is a man by the name of Carpenter. Senator CAMDEN. Did I understand you right when I asked the question, that there are about a million and a half people in those islands who are Filipinos, and that they only had a semblance of civilization? Col. YOUNG. I understood you to say that they were the only people who had the semblance of civilization, and who wanted independence. Senator CAMDEN. That was the question. Col. YOUNG. Yes. It depends on what you mean by civilization. What we call civilization down in the Moro Province was this: That if a man would not shoot at you when you passed him, he was all right. The CHAIRMAN. What is the population of Mindanao, taken alone? Col. YOUNG. It is about 250,000, I think. Between that and 400,000. The CHAIRMAN. We have been told here that the total population of the islands was about 8,000,000, that something over 7,000,000 of those were Filipinos and the others more or less consisted of Moros, Igoroto, and other hill tribes and wild men. You evidently made a slip when you said there Nvere only a million and a half Filipinos. Col. YOUNG. I said that I was guessing at that. It is a long time since I read the figures on the subject. When you get down to the Mindanao it is, of course, largey made up of Moros. GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. 621 Senator CRAWFORD. How many islands there are controlled by these MorJs? Is there not a Sulu group? Col. YOUNG. All of the islands clear down to Borneo. Senator CRAWFORD. You do not mean Luzon? Col. YOUNG. No. Senator CRAWFORD. When you say " all of the islands," what islands do you mean? Col. YOUNG. What are known in the Philippine Islands as the Provinces. That consists of the Sulu Islands, Mindanao, and all of those islands where these people have not been under control. Senator LIPPITT. That means islands neighboring to -Mindanao? Col. YOUNG. All adjacent and in that group. Senator CRAWFORD. And in that group these Moros control? Col. YOUNG. Yes. Senator CRAWFORD. And you think they always will? Col. YOUNG. Always will. Senator CRAWFORD. And never can be subjected? Col. YOUNG. We have been fighting them there for some time. - Senator CRAWFORD. And any attempts made to educate them have been futile? Col. YOUNG. I had a fight not over six months before I left there with people right around my post. We had been there for years and were supposed to know all about them. I had to dislodge a man in a large stronghold there. He had about 200 volunteers. Senator LIPPITT. What did you say about that? Col. YOUNG. I say this was a man who was an outlaw. He gathered a lot of people around him. He was preying on the country. They would come down to the settlements, kill a few people, and run back again into the hills. So it was necessary to get hold of that man. Senator LIPPITT. What would the native chief, the head of the Moro people, do under such circumstances? Col. YOUNG. They simply defended themselves as best they could. Senator LIPPITT. But they would not organize a force to go out? Col. YOUNG. No; he did not do that, because the governor had to do that. Senator LIPPITT. I mean, supposing you had not been there, what would have been done? Col. YOUNG. He usually fought them and killed a good many of them, but to form an expedition against them, of course he could not do that. Senator CRAWFORD. What is the commercial value of this particular group, the Sulu group? Col. YOUNG. Mindanao is a very important and rich country. They raise a great deal of rice there. They raise enormous quantities of hemp. Senator CRAWFORD. Do they export from the island? Col. YOUNG. They export from the island. Large ships come in to Zamboanga from Australia, and into Sulu. Senator CRAWFORD. Who does this business there, the Moros? Col. YOUNG. Principally Spaniards and Englishmen. Senator KENYON. Do these Moros do anything with them? Do they permit them to go ahead with business Col. YOUNG. Yes; they permit tbo go on with the business. -fr- T i 01. A 4 8 Wuu- -- -l LJ - 628' GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Senator KENYON. It must be a terrible place to do business. Col. YOUNG. They work for them. Senator LIPPITT. Work for wages? Col. YOUNG. Work for wages. Senator LIPPITT. How much wages do they get? Col. YOUNG. They get, I should say, 1 peso a day. That is, 50 cents. Senator LIPPITT. Fifty cents a day? Col. YOUNG. Of course, that is very much higher than they were used to. When they become more or less Americanized they want more wages. Senator CAMDEN. Do you regard that country as a white man's country, for them to live there and work? Col. YOUNG. It would not be safe. Senator KENYON. Then, how is it safe for these Englishmen that you speak of that do business there? You said they attacked your post. Do they not attack these people that do business there? Col. YOUNG. Yes; they do. On the plantations, down in the southern point there, along about Davoa, where these Englishmen go who have some rubber plantations, they take a great many chances. They surround themselves with a lot of men. They call themselves bodyguards. They arm them, and they stand off these fellows when they go down there. Of course, if you go out you can not go far away from your house. Senator KENYON. What do they do? Col. YOUNG. They kill you. Where I lived for the last two years I never would allow anybody to leave-to go 200 yards from the quarters, officers, or their families, or anybody, without two of them at least being armed. Senator KENYON. A pleasant place to live, is it not? Col. YOUNG. There is rather a good deal of anxiety about it. Senator CAMDEN. What about health conditions down there? Would a white race of people thrive? Col. YOUNG. Down in that section, that is the healthiest part of the Philippine Islands, Mindanao. There is a very delightful climate down there. I do not think they have quite so much rain. Senator LIPPITT. In the raising of rice down in Mindanao, is that Chinese labor that works for these Englishmen and Spaniards, or is it Moro labor Col. YOUNG. It is Moro labor. Senator LIPPITT. What does a Moro do in one of these villages of a thousand people that you speak of, where there would be probably 200 or 300 men? What do those men do with themselves during the day? Do they labor at something? Do they labor in the fields or do they just hang around and do nothing? Col. YOUNG. They do nothing. They may labor a little while and then go to sleep. Senator LIPPITT. Down in Luzon they spend a good deal of time in taking baths and in doing up their hair. Do they bathe much there? Col. YOUNG. They bathe a good deal. They live right on the water, you know. Senator LIPPrrr. I mean, i heir habit to spend more or less of their time in the water? I i GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. W 629 Col. YOUNG. Not with the men. I say it is with the women and children. Senator LIPPITT. Do the men spend much time in labor Col. YOUNG. Very little. Not more than they have to. There is no occasion really for a man to work if he does not want to. They can get along all right, because the Moro is self-supporting. There are lots of times when they want a little money they will go to work for two or three or four days and get enough money to keep them the rest of the month. Senator LIPPITT. What do they want the money for? Col. YOUNG. They use that for buying little presents, or tobacco, or something of that kind. Senator LIPPITT. Clothes? Col. YOUNG. No; they never deal in clothes at all. Senator LIPPrTT. How do those men down on the plantation workl Col. YOUNG. Right in their skin. You would be surprised to see how they work, because the sun is hot enough to peel off a white man's skin. They can work out in it and stand it. * The CHAIRMAN. HOW about the habit of the people in regard to drinking? Do they drink to excess? I am speaking of the Moros. Col. YOUNG. Not at all. They have a drink there called vino, which is a native drink. If a white man drinks it it sets him crazy. The Moro will not drink it at all, but he will sell it to other people. You can buy enough to make everybody drunk for 5 cents. All the Moro wants is to get the 5 cents, but he will not drink it himself. The CHAIRMAN. What is it made of? Col. YOUNG. It is made of the milk of the coconut. They put it out in the sun and let it stand there. Then the Moro will put anything he happens to have into it, a little alcohol, for instance. Senator LIPPrIT. A second time? Col. YOUNG. A second time, or tobacco or anything else. The CHAIRMAN. While you were there did you permit them American drinks, whisky and beer? Col. YOUNG. No. I never saw a Moro drunk in my life. They de not drink. I have heard that there have been cases of that kind, but they just do not drink. The CHAIRMAN. How do they come to make this vino? Col. YOUNG. They just knew that the American people wanted something, and they would take anything they would make. Senator LIPPITT. They sold this drink to the Americans? Col. YOUNG. Yes; they sold it to the Americans. Some of them are foolish enough to buy anything. It is called a native wine. Senator LIPPITT. I was wondering where they got the market. You say it is just sold to the Americans? Col. YOUNG. Just to Americans. Senator LIPPITT. Did the Filipinos buy any of it? Col. YOUNG. The Filipinos buy some of it. I have had an American soldier drink that, and go right into his quarters, get his gun, and shoot everybody he saw. He was just perfectly crazy. A man has absolutely no control of himself. Fortunately they do not get much of it. The CHAIRMAN. How large a fo did you have at the post where you lived yourself? 630 ~ GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. Col. YOUNG. I had my own regiment down there. I am colonal of the Twenty-first Infantry. I did not pay much attention to that. I never cared much about the numbers of the people. I knew what I would encounter anywhere on the trail. If I had anywhere from 6 to 10 men along I always felt safe. The CHAIRMAN. But the whole regiment was located at one central point? Col. YOUNG. At one central point. Senator LIPPITT. Where was that, on the coast or in the hills? Col. YOUNG. I was right down on the coast, but the hills were right back of me. Senator KENYON. Did you have to shoot any considerable number of these fellow citizens of ours? Were there any encounters that amounted to anything? Col. YOUNG. Oh, yes. We had to shoot at them. I do not know how many we hit. Senator LIPPITT. Do you mean there was anything you could call a real fight, where you had 40 or 50 or 100 men on your side? Col. YOUNG. On the last expedition, just before I returned, I had three columns working. Senator LIPPITT. About what date was that? Col. YOUNG. I left the Philippine Islands in April, 1912. I think it was along about March, just before I left there. Senator LIPPITT. March, 1912? Col. YOUNG. 1912. Senator LIPPITT. Will you not give a little statement of the causes tfhat led to it, and how much the expedition amounted to? Col. YOUNG. That is what I said, that the outlaw had gathered all the people around him and got up into the hills. He would come down and prey on the people who were trying to have little farming interests, and raising some supplies. The CHAIRMAN. That is, he would prey on other Moros? Col. YOUNG. He was a Moro, and he would come down and prey on the Moro people. Of course he had no regard for them simply because they were Moros. He was up in the hills at the head of the Labungan River. It was necessary to get him. So in order to do that, as it is a very hard country to march over, we had to form an expedition, and went in three columns so as to arrive at this point at about the same time. The CHAIRMAN. How many people to a column? Col. YOUNG. I had about 60 to a column. There were about 200 men. Then I had a lot of Moros for spies and scouts. Senator LIPPITT. About how far distant was the point you wanted to arrive at? Col. YOUNG. It was about 60 miles. Senator LIPPITT. HOW long did it take you to get there? Col. YOUNG. We got there in about four days. Senator LIPPITT. Then what happened? Go ahead and tell us. Col. YOUNG. We had to attack the place. He was in a stronghold in one of these hills which you would call a cotta. Senator LIPPITT. What kind of a stronghold was it? Was it a fort? Col. YOUNG. Stone and root things of that kind. Senator LIPPITT. You mean had been built up there? ~I ~ GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. " 631 Col. YOUNG. They usually built these cottas within a stronghold, and the bamboo root is very' hard to dislodge. Senator LIPPITT. Did they have firearms? Col. YOUNG. Oh, yes; they have firearms. Senator LIPPITT. Where did they get them? Col. YOUNG. From people they captured and killed. Senator LIPPITT. Where did the people they killed get them Col. YOUNG. They probably had them from Spanish times. Senator LIPPITT. Where did they get the powder? Col. YOUNG. They have a good many guns over there. Every encounter you have you capture a whole lot of guns. Gen. Pershing had been fighting the Moros down in the Moro Province for the last four or five years. I have seen boatloads of arms taken away from them. Senator KENYON. Did you lose any men in that engagement? Col. YOUNG. I did not lose any. Senator LIPPITT. What happened after you got up there? Col. YOUNG. We just had a fight. Senator LIPPITT. What did the fight consist of? Col. YOUNG. Just running up against them and shooting them up. Senator LIPPITT. Did they shoot back? Col. YOUNG. Oh, yes. Senator LIPPITT. Did they kill or injure any of your force? Col. YOUNG. No, sir. Senator LIPPITT. How many did you kill or capture? Col. YOUNG. I would not like to say. I could not tell. Senator LIPPITT. Why did they stay there and wait for you? Col. YOUNG. Because they always do that. They are never afraid to come out and fight as long as they can stand it. Senator LIPPITT. Was there any place where they could have gotten away from you? Col. YOUNG. They could have gotten into the hills. Senator LIPPITT. They simply preferred to stay there? Col. YOUNG. I think so. Of course when they saw there was no show they ran away. The men scattered in the hills. Then we had to burn their houses. They had a couple of hundred houses. We had to destroy their places. Senator LIPPITT. That was to break up their central point? Col. YOUNG. Yes- to break up the rendezvous. Senator LIPPITT. bid you get the head man? Col. YOUNG. We shot him, but did not get him. We shot him through the stomach, but he threw his belt off and ran away. It is pretty hard to kill those fellows. It is like shooting at a buffalo. They have the most wonderful vitality of any people I ever saw in my life. I have seen them shot to pieces, cut to pieces. You would think they could never survive for a moment, but in a few days they would be out again all right. Senator KENYON. That is due to their simple habits? Col. YOUNG. I think so, largely. It is perfectly wonderful. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I do not think there is anything else to ask you. We are much obliged to you for your statement. Senator KENYON. Are those M' creasing rapidly? Col. YOUNG. Yes. 632.. GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINES. The CHAIRMAN. I should like to put in the record, with the consent of the committee, a number of manuscripts that have come to me from various persons, to be printed in a single volume by itself. It consists of letters from persons, some in an official capacity, and others who have been residents of the islands at different times. It includes also some resolutions by the Merchants' Association of Manila and asking for an investigation of the financial transaction of the Philippine Islands with a view of determining whether a sum of money is not still due the Philippine Islands from the Government of the United States. It also includes resolutions of the municipal councils of several of the towns. (The papers referred to appear in the appendix to this hearing.) (Thereupon, at 1.15 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until Monday, January 11, 1915, at 10 o'clock a. m.) X y L== o r - - rr -, -... ~ t ( I' 4 C * -.- -