DEB ATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION AND AMEN DiMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. ASSEMBLED AT LIBERTY HALL, NEW ORLEANS, APRIL 6, 1864. BY ALBERT P. BENNETT, Official Reporter. H. A. GALLUP, ) S. W. BURNHAM, Short-hand Reporters. A. L. BARTLETT, NEW ORLEANS: W. R. FISH, PRINTER TO THE CONVENTION. 1864. s, 3- I SJ " I /" I I' to, -; jW- E.-,''';.- a' F S, Andi . I . - t~,? DEBATES IN THE STATE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. On motion of Mr. Monltamat, the proceedinigs were opened with prayer by the Rev. Dr. Newman, of the Methodist Church. A communication from the secretary of state, enclosed the general order of Major General Nathaniel P. Banks, under which the election for delegates was held. as well as the proclamation of his excellency Michael Hahn, governor of the State of Louisiana, which were ordered to be read. e Also, the returns from the various districts and parishes in this city and State, of the election held for delegates. A motion was made that the roll be called to ascertain the number of members present. The secretary read the names and the following gentlemen were present: Joseph Gorlinski, John Stumpf, R. B. Bell, J. B. Schroeder, Geo. F. Brott, E, Murphy, W. T. Stocker, Terrance Cook, Alfred C. Hills, Joseph H. Wilson, T.. B. Thorpe, John Henderson, Jr., J. J. Healy, J. H. Stiner, Geo. A. Fosdick, M. W. Murphy, W. H. Hire, P. K. O'Conner, Jno. W. Thomas, Jno. Foley, James Fuller, George Howes, John Sullivan, H. W. Waters, J. R. Terry, P. Harnan. 0. W. Austin, Alfred Shaw. E. J. Wenck, R. King Cutler, Louis Gastinel, Judge E. H. Durell, Edmund Abell, J. B. Montamat, John Buckley, Jr., A. Mendiverri, Xavier Maurer. J. V. Bofill, Dr. M. F. Bonzano, F. M. Crozat, Adolphe Bailey, Judge R. K. Howell, M. Spellicy, J. K. Cook, O. H. Poynot, H. Maas, Edward Hart, E. Goldman, John Purcell, Geo. W. Geier, C. W. Stauffer, W. WEDNESDAY, April 6th, 1864. This day being fixed by the General Order of Maj. Gen. Nathaniel P. Ranks, commanding the United State s forces in the Department he G ite of the Gulf, by virtue of the authority i nvested in him by the president of the United Stat es, and also a g reeably with the proclamation of his excellency Michael EHahn, gover no r of the State of Louisiana, ordering th is Co nvention to assemble for the purpose of revising and amending the constitution of the State, the d elegates from the several Representative Districts met in Liberty Hall, which had been p rep ared f or t heir reception, in the Ex ecutive Building, New Orleans, at the hour of 12 o'clock M. The Hall was filled with delegates, and the lobbies and galleries overflowing with spectators. Col. T. B. Thorpe, of Orleans, took the stand and said: '"I have been requested to call this Convention to order.'" MNR. TERRY, of Orleails —-I nominate A1fred, Shaw, Esq., as temporary -president of the Convention. Mr. Thorpe put the nomination to the House, and Mr. Shaw was declared unanimously ch,sen as temporary president, and took his seat. Mr. Fish, of Orleans, then nominated Alfred C. Hills as secretary pro team., and he was unanimously elected, and took his seat. es foz 4 e 4$ DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. Shaw, chairman, deeided that it would be better to wait until the supposed fact was announced by the secretary of state, when Mr. Thomas informed the chair that a communication from the secretary was upon the speaker's desk, but upon search it was not to be found. The Rev. Mr. Potter, at the request of the president, opened the proceedings with prayer. The secretary then read the minutes of the preceding meeting, and no amendments be ing proposed, they were accepted. MR. KAVANAGHI-I would ask if the Committee on Credentials have made any re port. MR. MIONTAMAT-In its behalf, I submit the following statement: To the honorable the chairman and members of the Constitutional Convention: The undersigned, Committee on Credentials, beg leave to submit the following report. laving examined the returns of election from the parishes hereinafter named, your committee find that the following named gentlemen were duly elected: ORLEANS. nFirst Representative District — Joseph Gorlinski, R. B. Bell, Geo. F. Brott. W. T. Stocker, John Stumpf, J. B. Schroeder, E. Murphy. Second Representative District —Terrance Cook, Joseph H. Wilson, John Henderson, Jr., J. H. Stiner, M. W. Murphy, P. K. O'Conner, Alfred C. Hills, T. B. Thorpe, J. J. Healy, Geo. A. Fosdick, W. H. Hire. Third Representative District-John W. Thomas, James Fuller, John Sullivan, J. R. Terry, O. W. Austin, John Foley, George Howes, H. W. Waters, P. Harnan. . Fourth Representative District Alfred Shaw, R. King Cutler, Judge E. H. Durell, E. J. Wenck, Louis Gastinel. Fifth Representative District- Edmund Abell, John Buckley, Jr., Xavier Maurer, J. P. Montamat, A. Mendiverri. Sixth Representative District —J. V. Bofill, F. M. Crozat, Dr. M. F. Bonzano, Adolphe Bailey. Seventh Representative District-Judge R. K. Howell, J. J. Baum, M.D. Kavanagh, H. Millspaugh. Eighth Representative District-J. A. Spellicy, O. H. Poynot, J. K. Cook. Ninth Representative District-H. Maas, E. Goldman, Edward Hart. 7bnth7 Representative District-John Purcell, C. W. Stauffer, W. R. Fish, Benjamin Campbell, J. T. Barrett, Geo. W. Geier, R. tS. Abbott, James Duane, Edmond Flood, J. L. Davries. R. Fish, James Duane, Benj. Campbell, Edmund Flood, J. L. Davies, J. T. Barrett, J. H. Flagg, W. H. Seymour, Joseph Dupaty, James Ennis, H. J. Heard, P. A. Kugler, Martin Schnurr, Robert Morris, Samuel Pursell, Christian Roselius, John Payne, J. B. Bromley, E. H. Knobloch, C. H. G-runeberg, Lewis Lombard, Thos. J. Decker, Thomas Ong, M. Beauvais, Young Burke, Charles Smith. R. W. Bennie, Adolphe Gaidry. It was moved and seconded that a comnmittee of three be appointed by the chair to examine credentials, which, after being amended by striking out "three " and substituiting "five," was carried. The chair appointed the following gentlemen, with J. P. Montamat, Esq., chairman: Messrs. Thomas, Gruneberg, Bennie, Brott and S. Pursell. Motions regarding the appointment of at committee to report ruls and regulations for the government of the Convention, and to suggest officers for carrying out its business, were then offered but these, as well as a resolution that all motions and resolutions be committed to writing and handed to the secretary, were considered premature, and lost,'on the ground thatno business could be transacted until the Committee on Credentials had made their report. It was stated that the committee would require considerable time tq ma ke their report; and accordingly a motion was made and carried that the meeting a(ljotirn until to-morrow at 12 o'clock. r THUoSDAY, April 7, 1864. At the appointed hour, 12 o'clock Nr., the president called the Conv ention to order, and decide d that a qu orum would cons ist of seventy-sixc members. for the purposes of organization. The secretar y was directe d to c all th e roll, and it was announced that there was a quoruim present, and the Convention then proceeded to business. Mr. Montamat, chairman of the Committee on Credentials, rose and said that the Committee on Credentials would report, but that there were certain members claiming to be elected, in regard to whose merits no report could be made, inasmuch as no returns of their election had been received from the secretary of state. 4 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. It was moved and seconded that the report be adopted. MR. BROTT —Before we proceed to adopt that report, I wish to suggest that the last part of the report be set aside. A member having been elected, is entitled to represent that parish. AMR. LOmBARD, of Plaquemines —Mr. Chairman: Have I not protested against that election on account of the illegality and fraud which have prevailed in this and in every election of that parish since 1844? And did I not wish this in particular brought to light, my opponent would not have the benefit of all the evil, fraud and misdealing to change a vote he was not entitled to. I knew beforehand all this, and refused to accept the nomination from the citizens. I knew such practices would be made use of; but, notwithstanding, I faced this great discrepancy which was in my way, and I said that in case I should be defeated I should find those who would not give this their sanction. I call upon this Convention to decide whether I am entitled to my seat, and if not so, to some credit for having made a stand against the frauds. If you had observed the requisites of the law, you could not have had an election within a month. is it to be said that the iniquities of old shall be prejudicial to this assembly? But is it r ather not time to frown them down? Mr. President, I leave it to this House to decide, and call upon my opponent to come forward and state why it Right Bank of Mtssissippi (Algiers) —J. H. Flagg, W. H. Seymour. ASSUMPTION. Joseph Dupaty, Jas. Ennis, E. J. Pintado. AVOYELLES. L. P. Normand, H. C. Edwards. BATON ROUGE (EAST.) W. D. Mann, P. A. Kugler, H. J. Heard. BATON ROUGE (WEST.) Sidney A. Lobdell. CONCORDIA. Robert W. Taliaferro. FELICIANA (EAST.) Jansen T. Paine, Martin Schnurr. J EFFERSON. Robert Morris, Samuel Pursell, Christian Roselius, John Payne. LAFOURCHE. J.'B. Bromley. E. H. Knobloch, C. H. L. Gruneberg. R. V. Montague. RAPIDES. M. R. Ariail, A. Cazabat, J. H. Newell, Thomas M. Wells. ST. BERNARD. Thomas Ong. ST. JAMES. R. Beauvais. ST. JOHN THE BAI'rIST. Young Burke. ST. MARY. Charles Smith. TERREBONNE. R. W. Bennie, Adolphe Gaidry. | Your committee find that in the parish of Ascension, Robert J. Duke received the highest number of votes, and was duly elected. That Emile Collin and J. E. Richard each received an equal number of votes, and consequently neither of them was elected. Your committee.have thought proper, under such circumstances, to recommend that another election be ordered in said parish of one delegate. Upon investigating the returns fiom the parish of Plaquemines, it appears that the sheriff thereof was guilty of the following acts of-negligence, which, in the opinion of your committee, renders the election in that parish null and void: First-He did not appoint deputies, or cause the polls to be opened at all the various precincts in that parish. Second-He did not cause any return to be made of the result of the poll at Fort Jackson. Third-He has made no official return whatever of the election in that parish. Your committee would recommend that another election be ordered in that parish. All of which is respectfully submitted. JOHN MO.NTAMAT, Chairman. should not be so. MR. DECKERP-I was not a candidate, but was elected by the people. I am satisfied with the report of the committee, and with the will of the people, and am willing that the election should go back to them. I have no more to say. The question was then called fbr. MR. BELL-I would move that a special committee of five be appointed, to whom the matter may be referred. Mr. Montamat moved that the motion be laid on the table. The president stated that there was a motion already before the House to adopt the report of the c ommittee. Mr. Bell having moved an amendment, the motion now would be to lay that amendment on the table. I 5 .AA,DISO,N. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION The motion for amendment was lost. MR. HAPRNAXN-I move that every motion be presented in writing. Motion decided to be out of order. PREsIDENT-Shall the report on credentials be adopted? MR. CAZABAT-Before the adoption of this motion, I beg leave most respectfully to suggest that there are now several parishes in Western Louisiana anxious and ready to participate in the proceedings of this Convention. In a few days the parishes of Natchitoches, Catahoula, St. Landry, Winn, Calcasieu, and adjoining parishes, will be represented. It seems to me, therefore, it would be proper and right, before we proceed any further, to adjourn this Convention, until next Monday, at 12 o'clock; therefore I move that this Convention, before going into permanent organization, or any further in these proceedings, shall adjourn until 12 o'clock on Monday next. MR. MO*NTAMAT The motion is o ut of order. PRESIDENT-The motion now before the House is that the C onvention shall adjourn. The yeas and nays were called for. During the calling of the roll it was decided that only the names of delegates which had be en transmitted to the Convention by the secretary of state, and had been reported upon by the Comm ittee on Credentials as duly elected, should be called. The motion to adjourn was lost-nays 78; yeas 7. PRESIDENT-The motion now before the House is to adopt the report of the committee. Mr. Terry moved as an amendment, that the report be adopted with the exception of the portion referring to the contested seats. Mr. Stocker moved to lay the amendment on the table, which motion being put to vote, was carried. The report was then unanimously accepted. Mr. Bell moved that the Convention go into permanent organization. MR. COMAS-I offer as a substitute that a committee of five on permanent organization be appointed, which shall report the different officers necessary for the transaction of the business of the Convention, ner. C. Roselius, nominated by Mr. Harnan. J. R. Terry, nominated by Mr. Fuller. Messrs. Terry and Shaw respectfully declinedt Mr. Stiner moved that the president be elected by ballot. Mr. Monttamat moved that the motion be laid on the table. Upon the nays appearing to have it, a division was called for. Mr. HARNAN-We call for the yeas and nays because we wish every man to vote openly, so that we may know how each one does vote. The'secretary stated it was difficult to call the name and register the vote of every member, and, wishing an assistant, he would suggest Mr. H. A. Gallup as assistant secretary, which was moved, seconded and carried. Mr. Harnan moved that an assistant should be appointed to register the votes of each candidate, which was lost. PRESIDENT-The question now before the House is whether the motion of the gentleman from the Second District (Mr. Stiner ), shall be adopted. The roll being called, it was decided to lay the motion to vote by ballot on the table. Yeas 56; nays 24. PRRESIDENT —You are about to elect a president. The candidates are Messrs. Howell, Durell, Roselius, Bonzano and Thorpe. Mr. BACCH — The delegate s fr o m the parish of Iberville desire to take their seats and cast their votes, as the elections were duly held and returns made to the secretarv of state; but by some means they have been lost, and have not reached the secretary. 6 N AND AMENDMENT OFP THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Since, as I have said, the elections were held according to the orders of Gen. Banks, and returns legally made, we would like to vote. I laid a communication on the desk, signed by the two delegates, in relation to this matter. Mr. Thomas rose to a point of order. PRESIDEx\r —These votes cannot be counted without the order of the Convention, and as no such permission has been given, the gentleman is out of order. It was moved and seconded that the dele allowed to take their seats, was then put to vote and carried. Mn. BROTT-I notice that when the roll was called, t hree members answered from the parish of Ascension. This parish is entitled to but two, and only one is W elected according to the report of the committee. SECRETARY —I would state that those names were called through a mistake, but I did not deem it necessary to correct it. as none of them answered at the last call, and their names will not be read again. The secretray the n re ad the votes of the candidates for presidency as follows: T. B. Thorpe, one; Christian Roselius, seven; M. F. Bonzano, fifteen; J udge Howell, twenty-five; Judge Durell, thirty-five; and consequently there was no election. The n ames of Me ssrs. Bonzano,,Thorpe and Roselius.were withdrawn. Mr. Stocker moved tha t M. DeCoursey be requested to act as temporary sergeant-atarms, which, being seconded, Mr. Montamat declared it to be out of order, and upon Mr. Stocker calling for a decision of the chair, it was ruled to be in order. It was moved and carried that the motion be laid on the table. There being no choice in the' election of president, the secretary again called the roll. The following is a list of the votes for the candidates: For Judge Duy;ell-Messrs. Gorlinski, Bell, Brott; Stumpf, E. Murphy, Cook, M. W. Murphy, O'Conner, Thorpe, Healy, Hire, Sullivan, Thomas, Fuller, Terry, Waters, Shaw, Bofill, Crozat, Bailey, Howell, Maas, Goldmran, Hart, J. Purcell, Stauffer, Fish, Campbell, Barrett, Geier, Duane, Davles, Flagg Seymour, Schnurr, Roselius, Paine, Knotloch, Gruneberg, Smith, Bennie, Gaidry-43. For Judge Hlowell-Messrs. Stocker, Wil.son, Schroeder, tenderson, Fosdick, Austin, Foley, Harnan,'Cutler, Durell, Wenck, Gastinel, Abell, Buckley, Maurer, Montamat, Mendiverri, Bonzano, Baum, Millspaugh, Kavanagh, Spellicy, Poynot, Cook, Flood, Dupaty, Ennis, Kugler, Heard, Morris, S. Pursell, Ong, Beauvais, Burke, Normand, Edwards, Cazabat, Newell, Balch, Dufresne, Hills-41. Mr. Thorpe moved that Judge Durell be considered the choice of this Convention, which, being seconded, was put and unanimously carried. .It was moved and seconded that a corn gates be heard, and an being put was carried. MR. BALCH-My object is that we may be permitted to take our seats previous to the organization of the Convention, so that we may vote. The fact is notorious that the election was legally held, and the otler candidate and myself legally elected. By some mischance the returns of the provost marshal are lost, and have never reached the secretary of state. I dispatched a messenger yesterday to Capt. Cox, and requested him to send the certificate as soon as possible. Under these circumstances I consider it nothing but just we should have the privilege of voting in the organization. There was no opposition to this election, and we were elected beyond all question. Such being'the facts, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, we ask the privilege of taking our seats and voting. Mr. Abell moved that the gentlemen be permitte d to take their seats. aMr. Wia ter s moved that the matter be re fer red to the Committee on Credentials. MR. THo.-s-Before the question is pu t I will state that it has already been referred. to the Committee on Credentials. I do not doubt these gentlemen, neither do the committee,.but there was no evidence brought before them other than the statement of the gentlemen themselves. Since there is no other evidence before them now,-it would be useless to refer it back to them again, for the committee would be unable to make any different report, since it would not be based on any other evidence further than that body has already had. The motion was then put' and lost. The original motion that the delegates be 7 0 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION to the prosperity and happiness of your State and of our common country. Mr. Bell moved to elect the secretary by ballot. Mr. Montamat moved that the members cease from all motions relative to voting by ballot, as they were not there to vote by ballot, but to record their opinions and proceedings, and that the motion be laid on the table. The vote was put, and the motion of Mr. Bell was laid on the table. The following gentlemen were then nomihated for the office of secretary: Messrs. Neelis, McClellan, Girard, White, Reynolds, Dericksoii, tIollan(d and M urphy. The secretary read the names of the nominees, and the votes recorded were: for Neelis, 44' Derickson, 10; McClellan, 8; Holland, 6; White, 6; Girard, 4; Murphy, 2; Reynolds, none. John E. Neelis was declared duly elected as secretary of the Convention. Mr. Henderson moved, and it was seconded, that a committee of three be appointed by the chair to wait upon Mr. Neelis and inform him of his election, and conduct him to his spat. The motion passed, and the chair appointed Messrs. Henderson, Thorpe and Campbell to wait upon Mr. Neelis. The committee reported that he could not be found, and Col. Hills, secretary pro tern., continued to officiate. A motion was made to ballot for sergeantat-arms. This was laid on the table, and the following gentlemen were nominated: T. F. McGuire, C. Baumbach, Thomas K. Flanagan and M. DeCoursey. The roll was called, but there was no choice. Mr. Flanagan then withdrew, and the roll was again called, but with the same result. The secretary read the namesagain, and the following vote was cast: DeCoursey, 41; Baumbach, 36; McGuire, 1. Mr. DeCoursey was accordingly declared elected sergeant-at arms. It was moved ky Mr. Brott that the committee appointed to wait on the secretary also wait upon the sergeant-at-arms, and inform him of his election. The motion was carried unanimously. It was then moved and seconded that the Convention adjourn till to-morrow at 12 o'clock. mittee of three be appointed to escort Judge Durell to the chair, which being duly carried, the speaker appointed Messrs. Howell, Roselius and Bonzano. J udg e Durell was received with loud applause, a nd addressed the meeting as follows: GeIdlemelln of the Convent ion-I thank you heartily for the honor you have conferred upon me in maki ng me your president; a nd I thank you still more heartily for this proof of your conf idence in my abilities and m y patriotism. When, in presiding over your deliberations, I may show weakness. I know that you will give m e of your strength; and that I shall not be disappointed in my expectation of finding with Uon; t hat courtesy which is the best aid to ai o-fficient business in every legislative body. Gentlemen-In this time of great trouble, in this supreme hour of our country's battle for its life, you have been entrusted by your fellow-citizens with duties commensurate with those of the soldier in the fields y ou have been called upon to finish the labor which he, necessarily, leaves incomplete. Gentlemen —On the 26th day of January, 1861, a few ambitious and bad men had assembled in oet convd r eention, and representing a minority of the pe ople of the State, declared " the connection between the State of Louisiana and the Federal Union dissolved;," you, gentlemen, have been chosen -- the elect of the loyal people of Louisiana — to undo that work of folly and crime; to restore the State to its former legitimate position in the Union; to replace it under the protecting folds of that flag which, everywhere, upon the land and upon the seas, has been ever hailed as the symbol of liberty and equal rigkts. Gentlemen-You are all familiar with the rise and progress of the grand drama which is being enacted in these days upon this continent, and of which we also are a part. With this knowledge, you will accept the progress of ideas; you will accept the changes which great convulsions in the opinions and in the societies of men make a necessity; you will willingly exchange a dead past for a living fuiture. Gentlemen-The first, chief cause of the present rebellion, is patent to all; you have been called together, invested with the plenary powers which, under our institutions,'belong to an organic political body, not only for the purpose of restoring the State to the Union, but also for the equal purpose of removing that fatal cause of strife and rebellion from Louisiana forever. You will, I know, perform those and the many other duties confided to your charge boldly, writh decision, looking only 8 14 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. of any persons who may assault our members, and it is taking the time of the Convention unnecessarily; and therefore I move that the resolution be laid on the table. The reading of the resolution was then called for. The previous motion was amended by a motion that it be referred to a committee to report thereon; and this being stated by the chairman, it was announced that the majority had voted in the affirmative, when the yeas and nays were called for on the question and preference. MR. ST.UFFER —I will call the attention of the chair to the fact that the unfinished business of yesterday must be concluded before we take up any new business. At that time there was a resolution passed in regard to the election of president, secretary, sergeant-at-arms and doorkeeper. These have not all been chosen; and it therefore strikes me that this new matter is entirely out of order. I ask the decision of the chair on that point. PRESIpENT-This is a question of privilege, and I believe it to be in order. Mr. BRoir —I request the privilege of changing my vote in regard to the question of reference to the affirmative. No objections being made, Mr. Brott's vote was changed. Upon calling the roll, 48 answered in the affirmative, and 30 in the negative; whereupon it wa s decided the m atte r sh ould be referred. As an amendment to Mr. Harnan's resolutioll, it was moved that the president appoint the committee, the number constituting it to be left to his discretion; which amendment being accepted, the chair appointed Messrs. Wilson, Roseliuis and Mor FRIDAY, April 8th, 1864. The Convention was called to order at a quarter past 12 o'clock, Mr. Shaw in the chair. The roll being called by the Secretary pro ten-., the following members answered to their names: Lessrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davis, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Durell, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, On,,, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wilson. After the minutes had been readi of the previous meeting, and before their adoption, Mr. Terry rose and requested that they might be amended in that portion in relation to the nomination of candidates for the speakership, so that he and Mr. Shaw might stand as having declined to become candidates for that office. No further objection being made, the minutes were adopted as corrected. MR. HARNAN-I- rise with some reluctance, but as I have been informed that some of our members have been grossly assaulted, I call upon the Convention to take into consideration the following resolution: We are informed, from what appears to be good authority, that two members of this Convention have been assaulted, one for performing his duty as a member of this Convention; therefore, Resolved, That said persons be reported to the proper authorities for merited punishment. I came here to do justice to all, and to represent the minority as well as the majority. Therefore, I hope this resolution will be strictly enforced, since we claim nothing but what is. right. MR. STAUFFFr-I think it is unnecessary to bring this matter before the Convention, for there are proper authorities to take care ris. It was moved that Col. Thorpe should constitute a member of the committee; but Mr. Thorpe begged leave to'decline. Mr. Wilson was suggested as a member of this committee, when the chair announced that he had already been appointed as such. MR. THO.as-I move we now proceed to yesterday's unfinished business, which is the electron of remaining officers. 2 t 9 0 10 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION The motion was decided in the affirma tive. This motion was sconded and carried. MR. ENxis-I now hold in my hand a resolution that I wi sh to l ay befo re the Convention, and hope it will receive the atten-. tion its merits demand. Not being able to s e e myself, I request the secretary to read it. MR. THO.AS —I move that we go on with the unfinished business of yesterday. MR. CZABAT-I move tha t t he remainder of the officers be chosen by the eappointment of the chair. MR. Mton -rA T-I move tha t it be laid on the table. Mr. Montamat s motion was secon ded. MR. STAUFFER-I offer as a substitute that a committee of five b e appointed b y the chair to report rules for the government of this Convention, and the additional number and character of the employes required for the transaction of the business of this Convention. MR. HENDERSON —The gentleman is out of order. ; MR. MO~NTAMIAT-There is a doorkeeper yet to be elected, and I wish the resolution to be heard. MR. HEARD-These debates are entirely out of order. It was moved to lay the motion of' Mr. Cazabat on the table. That motion was not debatable. Other motions have subsequently been made, but that motion was never withdrawn. The first thing to be done is to settle that motion, for we ought to be governed by something like parliamentary law. iMR. FOLEY-I request that the names of candidates for doorkeeper be announced. MR. HIIILS —I not only request that the names of candidates be announced, but that as each member responds his choice be repeated by the assistant secretary. The names of the candidates, Messrs. A Martin, F. X. Martin, W. Martin, Maloy, Purcell, McCarthy, Coyle, Baumbach, Sullivan, Miller, Ernst and Freary, were then read'and the roll called. The result of the first call was as follows: A. Martin, 15; F. X. Martin, 1; W. Martin, none; Maloy, 3; Purcell, 4; McCarthy, 4; Coyle, 15; Baumbach, 29; Sullivan, 5; Miller, 1; Ernst, 1; Freary, 3. Mr. Harnan withdrew Mr. Maloy's name. MR. BAUM —I move that upon the next call the candidate receiving the highest vote shall be declared elected. MR. HILLS —I move that the voting be confined to the three who have received the highest number of votes. MR. FLAGC-I move that the election be confined to the two who have received the highest number of votes. PRESIDENT-It has been moved and seconded that the choice of election be confined to the three who have received the highest number of votes. No objection being made, the motion was accordingly adopted. Upon callinge the roll the second time, the result was as follow s: A. Martin, 14; Coyle, 22; Baumbach, 45. Mr. Baumbach was decl ared elect ed. MR. MON-TA-MAT-I move that Mr. Baumbach.be con sidered the unanimous choic e of this Con ve nti o n. No objection being made, Mr. Montamat's motion was adopted. MR. FOLEY —I move we proceed to the election of messenger. MR. TERRY —I move we proceed to elect two doorkeepers. MR. ST.iUFIE,'R-I think it would be proper that we should elect but one, and I have a motion before the House which should be afterwards brought up. The following parties were then nominated as candidates for messenger: Messrs. A motion was then made to proceed with the election of officers. PRESIDENT-The first thing before the Convention is to lay upon the table the motion that the officers be appointed by the chair. That question was disposed of by an affirmative vote. The speaker then remarked that the motions were presented so rapidly that it was almost impossible to follow their sequence. Mr. Stauffer withdrew his motion until after the election of doorkeeper and messenger. PRESIDENTr-The motion now is that the Convention proceed to the election of doorkeeper and messenger. All those in favor of it will answer yea; opposed, nay. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 11 McLane, McDonald, Murphy, McGuire, Mc-' Clair, Clark, Coyle, Newton. Upon the first roll-call the result was as follows: McLane, 0; Newton, 0; McGuire, 2; Murphy, 3; McClair, 9; McDonald, 17; Clark, 21; Coyle, 25. MR. WIILSON-I move that only those two who have received the highest number of votes be considered as candidates. The motion was carried. MR. FOLEY-I would like to have the names of the candidates called now before the Convention. The secretary then proceeded to call the roll the second time, when he was interrupted by Mr. Schroeder. I M;. SCHROEDER-There undoubtedly has been a confounding of the names of the candidates, the result of which has been that many members have answered to their names unadvisedly, and many votes have been cast for Mr. Clark when the intention of the members was to support Mr. McClair. MR. FOLEY-I move that Mr. Wilson's m o tion be reconsidere ad and amended by striking out the word "two " and sutbstituting " three." It was moved that the last hotion be laid uon the table, which being sec onded by Mr. Cazabat, it was so ordered by the Convention. MR. TERRY —We wish to understand who are the candidates. The secretary announced that they were Messrs. Coyle and Clark. MR. HILT.s —Since there seems to have been some misunderstanding in regard to .the names before the Convention, I move that the secretary begin and call the roll anew. ,Mr. Hills's motion was seconded and carried; immediately after which the president remarked that there should be no mistake or misunderstanding, and hoped that in future no such difficulty would arise. The second roll-call resulted as follows: Coyle 36, Clark 44. MIR. MON-TAIt.'T-I move that Mr. Clark be considered the unaninimous choice of the Convention. Mr. Montamat's resolution was seconded and carried.? MB. STAVIFrER,-I will now present my resolution, heretofore referred to. MR. HEARD —Mr. President, our organi zation will not be complete until we have elected an assistant secretary, for it is al most impossible for the secretary to perform the duties incu mbent up on him, without such an as s istant. MR. GORlTTNSKI-I move we proceed to elect a po stmaster, printer, and four r eport - ers. MR STAUtFER-I b e lieve my resolution has precedence. MR. MO"rTAMAT-I pr opose t hat the reso lu tion of Mr. Gorlinski be referred to the Com mittee on Rules and Regulations. MR. STAUFFER —I would like to have my resolution read. MR. CAZABAT-I call for the resolutio n of Mr. Stauffer. sR. MONTAMAT-I wish to h e a r the resolu tioni read. PRESIDENT- The reso lution of Mr. Stauf fer will now be read. Mr. Stauffer's resolution: Resolved, That a co mmitte e of five be ap p oin ted by the president to report rules for the government of the Convent ion, and in ad dition in regard to the character o f the officers and employls, required for th e trans action of business. MR. HEART-sI offer this a s a substitute: Resolved, That a committee of five or seven be appointed by the president to pre pare rules an d ord ers f or t he government of the Convention, and that until said comm it tee report, the proceedin gs be governed by Jefferson's Manual, and the rules and orders of the Senate and House of Representatives of the State of Louisiana as ado pted i n 1856. MR. MONTAMAT-I move that the resolu tions be laid on the table. MR. STOCKER-I move that the original resolution and substitute be laid on the ta ble. Mr. Stocker's motion was carried. Mr. Terry introduced the following'reso lution: Resolved, That the status of every mem ber of this Convention be, namely: that he be a legally qualified voter of the State, who has subscribed to the oath of the presi- dent's proclamation of the 8th of December, 1863; that each and every member produce the same to the secretary by 12 m., on the 9th of April, 1864, or be required to take the same before the president of the- Conrvention. It was moved to lay this motion on the 12 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION table, and upon a discussion arising as to the propriety of that motion, Mr. Thomas stated that the last motion was not debatable, and that he arose to a point of order. The speaker then directed the roll to be called, to decide as to the disposition of the last motion; when it was decided not to lay it on the table by a vote of 55 nays to 26 yeas. MR. HEARD-Since it was decided that the motion put before the House was not debatable, I will now explain why I voted against it. Every man who has been elected by a free and independent constituency, comes here as a man and to be respected as such. I for one am willing to resign my seat and go home, if we are to be trammeled and shackled, and if every man who has been elected here is to be an object of suspicion. It seems to me that the very fact that the gentlemen cccupying seats on this floor, after the proclamations of General Banks and Governor Hahn, is primafacie evidence that he is entitled to a seat, the returns in pursuance of them having been made to the secretary of state. I took that oath when it first came out-on the yery first week. Now, sir, this is what I suppose to be a Convention of the representatives of the great people of Louisiana, who have complied with the requisitions of the proclamation of President Lincoln. I am far from suspecting any gentleman who has taken his seat. What is the object of this resolution? I would like to hear the gentleman state if there is any member on this floor whose loyalty he suspects. If he can point any one out who has not complied with the requisitions of the president, I, for one, would be willing to vote for his expulsion, as being unworthy of a seat upon this floor. We have come here, as I understand it, to accomplish a great, a glorious, a noble purpose. We want to put our State in her former position-though I do not admit s,he has ever beef out of the Union. They tried to put her out in 1861, but did not succeed in accomplishing it. Now, sir, let us go to work with calmness and deliberation. Let us all act as a band of brothers. I look upon every member o f this C onve n tion as a brother. We ought to act in harmony, and I, for one, will use all my feeble efforts to place our glorious State in her just position in the Union. Then, sir, I will be content to dedicate the last moments of my life to the care of my own interests. MR. TERRY —I can see no harm in the r esolution. It do es not allude to any particular member or members of this Convention. I proposed this resolution because I have heard it asserted that one-half the members of this Convention were Copperheads, Now, sir, I do not wish this report to be circulated. I wish it put down, and this resolution simply asks for the confirmation that the delegation here have all concurred in the general order promulgated by the president of the United States and the general commanding this department.'I not only wish that every citizen of this State, but the mass of people throughout the whole United States, may know that each member of this Convention is iron-clad. [Cheers.] MB. THROPE-After the election of president, I believe it is customary that the members shall be sworn in before that officer; still I speak rather for information, and do not state it as a fact. P. RESIDENT —I believe that it is customary, and suppose every member is ready to do MRt. ROSELIUS —I have been a member of three conventions, and such a thing as requiring an oath of a member of a convention was never heard of until now. PRESIDEprT-IS the Convention r eady for the question? The secretary wi ll read the original resolution, and call the roll. MR. CAZABAT —Mr. President: It may not have been customary in former conventions to require any oath on the part of its members. I do not suppose the Convention of 1861, which passed the ordinance of secession, required any oath of its members. But let it be known for the glory of Louisiana, that in the glorious and important work before us, each one took the iron-clad oath. [ Applause. ] I, for.,one, sir. raise my humble voice to require it fiom every member of this Convention who represents his re_ spective parish. Noharm canbe done; no suspicion rests upon Us, but it is a duty which we owe to our constituents-to our country. Let us proclaim to the world that every man who is to participate in the SO. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. proceedings of this Convention has already complied with that important proclamation of December 8, 1863. [Applause.] Sir, the eyes of the civilized world are upon us. This is a struggle between freedom and slavery, involving the salvation or the ruin of this country. In accordance with divine wisdom honest Abe Lincoln has been called to preside over the nation, and his name will be blessed not only by the American people but by the persecuted throughout the whole world. He will be known as the friend of the oppressed of every nationality, of all grades, and of all races and all colors. Therefore, to you, Mr. President and members of this Convention, I appeal honestly and conscientiously, that you allow no objection to be raised in relation to this question. Let every member of this Convention go forward and exhibit his passport at the doors of the Convention. If he has not already complied with the orders of the president of the United States let him g,o forward, before ,he president of this Convention, and take t he oa th. [ Gre at applause,] Mfr. P resident, this question requires no further discussion. It should be in t he heart of every member of this Convention t o c omply with the wishes of his constituents. Why, sirs the election was held under the order of th e general commanding the Depart ment of the Gulf. Was it not required of every member to take the iron-clad? Is it not proper-is it not right —is it not fair — that every one should be compelled to take it. and should any member upon this floor complain of it? No, sir. I hope, I trust, for God's sake, for the sake of my country. for the sake of Louisiana, that every one will take it, and will take it before the president of this Convention. MR. THomAs-Before the motion is put, I have a substitute for it which I would offer I voted against the resolution, because ] could not see any reason why we should require each other to take this oath. ] could see none around me whose loyalty ] suspected. Inasmuch as the question in relation t the loyalty of some members has beer raised, I move, as a substitute for the res iolution now under consideration, that eact and every member of this body be now re quired to come before the president and take the iron-cl ad. Mr. Cazabat seconded the motion. Still another resolution was offered as ai substitute for the original, which Mr. Ter ry m o ve d be laid upon the table, and the motion was seconded. MR. pVATERS-I move that we adjourn. MR. CAZAIAT-I move thatmotionbe laid upon th e table. PRESIDPENdr-The motion to adjourn is al ways in order. The vote on the question of adjournment wa s t hen taken, and it having been decided that thte nays we re prepond erant, a division was called for, whenel the motion to adjourn was lost. Nays 54, yeas 24. PRESIDENT —The question now is in re gard to la ying on e ta e the stabl e thesubstitute last offered. The question was put and lost. PcoESIDEoT-The question now is the adop tion of the amendment of Mr. Thomas. MR. CAZABAT-I move that' every mem ber of this Convention stand before h is desk, raising his right hand before Almighty God, and that t he presid ent read to each and eve ry o n e o f us the irpn-clad oath re qIvired by the proclamation of Dec. 8th, 1863. This will settle the matter an d end the wor k a t on ce. Ap pla use.] M.. DAVIEs-I would offer the following ame ndment. PRESIDENT —But one amendment can be proposed at a time for the consideration of the House. MR. HAB.\N-IIOW many times does the gentleman wish us to take the oath? It is quite unnecessary, and if the gentleman - wishes to take it he can advance and do so. Question called for. l Mr. Montamat moved that the Convention ~ now adjourn till Saturday at 12 o'clock, I which motion being seconded, a division l was called for, and it was lost by a vote of I nays 47, to yeas 35. I MR. HILtLS —I wish to know what the ques tion is before the House. o The president informed the House that a the question was in relation to Mr. Cazabat's ~- resolution, which that gentleman was reh ducing to writing. ~- Mr. Cazabat's resolution weas: 0. 13 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION requires that the members shall prove themselves citizens. MR. HARNAN —That is not embodied in that document. MR. HILLs-Yes it is. The motion to lay the resolution on the table was.carried: The following resolution was presented: Resolved, That the governor be requested to issue his proclamation ordering an election, as early as possible, of one delegate from the parish of Plaquemines and one from the parish of Ascension, to represent the above named parishes in this Con.vention. This motion was seconded and adopted. A motion to adjourn was withdrawn. The following resolution was then offered: Resolved, That the proceedings of this Convention be published each day in the True Delta, Era and Times newspapers of this city. The motion that this be laid on the table was seconded and carried. MR. PURCELL-I beg leave to submit the following: Resolved, That the clergymen of this city and environs be invited to meet together and furnish a list of those willing to act as chaplains to this Convention-one ofthem in rotation each day. MR. HARNAN-I move to lay this on the table, and dispense with religious.ceremonies altogether. MR. CAZABAT I move we now adjourn till to-morrow at 12 o'clock. The motion being seconded, was put to vote and decided in the affirmative. Resolved, That the president of this Convention administer the iron-clad oath of December 8th, 1863, to each and every one of the members of this Convention. PRESIDENT-A motion has been made to lay this on the table. The question being put the Convention decided in the affirmative. PRESIDENT-The next resolution is the substitute of Mr. Thomas. The substitute reads as follows: - That each and every member of the Convention take the iron-clad oath, in order to banish all suspicion. And that motion has been seconded. Th e Convention decided to lay the motion on the table. MR. FOLEY-I move the original resolution (Mr. Terry's) be adopted. The president then read the original res olution. A motion to adjourn was'decided to be out of order. An amendment to the original resolution was offered to the effect that for the benefit of the House the secretary be requested to record the names of those who had already taken the " president's oath." A motion that the amendment be laid on the table having been seconded, was carried. A motion to adjourn was lost. MR. STAUFFER-I move that the sergeant. at-arms be instructed to preserve orde r during the roll call. The roll was then called on the original motion. Mr. Thomas begged to be excused from voting; but that not being the pleasure of the House, he voted in the affirmative. The chair announced that the Conyenfion had adopted the resolution by a vote of 66 yeas, to 11 nays. A motion to adjourn was made and withdrawn. MR. AUSTIN —I beg leave to submit the following Resolved, That every member of this Convention of foreign birth be required to furnish evidence of his citizenship on or before Saturday, the 9th of April, at 12 -. A motion to lay the resolution on the table was seconded. MR. HinLS-Ir claim that this res o lution is not in order, because the one already passed SATURDAY, April 9th, 1864. At 12 o'clock the Houtse was called to order by the president,'and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. r. Strong. The secretary then called the roll, and after some little delay it was announced that a quorum was present. The minutes of the preceding day were then read by the secretary, and adopted. The returns were received fry the secietary of state confirming the election of Messrs. Balch and Dufresne, delegates from Iberville. The secretary then read letters of resigna'-tion from Messrs. Abbott and Roselius. 14 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 15 PRESIDENT-The original resolution now comes up to accept the resignations. Tho se in favor will say yea; contraqry, nay. T he yeas and SLa ys were called for. While the yeas and nays were being called, the following interruption took place: MR. STM-UFFER-If I am c ompelled to vote, I would like t o ha ve my vote d ivided, a s I am in favor of accepting Mr. Abbott's resignation and refusing that of Mr. Roselius. PRESIDENT-That is not allowable. MR. STAUFFER-Then I vote blank. Mr. Duane being absent at the time his name was called, requested that his name might be again called, and voted in the affirmative. It was decided to accept the resignations by a vote of 45 yeas to 25 ilays. A resolution was presented by Mr. Stauf Mr. Abbot's communic ation was as follows: fMr. President and members of the Convention: Pressing business requiring my unexpected absence from the city for some time, I hereby tender my resignation as a member of the ConventionXfrom the Tenth Representative District. Yours, etc., R. S. ABBOTT. Mr. Roselius's communication was then read: To the president of the Convention: I hereby resign my seat as a member of the Convention from the Parish of Jefferson. I am, respectfully, your very obedient servant. MR. MONT.NAMT-I move the resignations be accepted. MR. HILLS-I offer as an amendment that Mr. Roselius be required to state the reasons why he resigns his seat in this Convention. The nays appearing to carry the motion, the yeas and nays were taken, and it was decided not to accept the resignations, by an affimative vote of 44 to 32 nays. PR. IDONTAMAT-IS there a quorum voting? PRESIDE~NT-I think so. MR. BUCKLEY —I wish also to know wheth fer. MR. S. PURCELL —I believe that my resoliu tion of yesterday, in relation to the clergy, has the preference. PRESIDENT-I think not. A resolution dies with the session. MR. SULLIVAN —I offer the following reso lution: Resolved, That no person shall be elizible to any office or employment whatever but duly qualified voters of this State, who shall present to the secretary of this Convention evidence that they have complied with the president's proclamation of December 8th, 1863. The resolution was seconded. MR. THoIAs —Before this resolution is adopted I beg leave to offer a few remarks. From the tenor of this resolution it would appear that a complaint has been entered by some person, in relation to the employment of young men under 21 years of Age as messengers. One young man has already been elected as messenger who is notyet 21 years of age. One or two other messengers will probably be elected to-day. I, for one, Mr. President, think that the most fit persons for these offices are boys-young men; 4nd that it is not necessary that we should have grown men-voters, to fill these offices. I would therefore move an amendment, that we exclude from the effect of the resolution the messengers of this body. er a quorum voted. MR. HILLs —The voting as announced shows there is a quorum present. MR. MAxSNN-I call for the yeas and nays. I do not like to have any member forced to assign his reasons. Mr. Roselius is required to state his reasons. If he refuses to come forward and do so, which he certainly has a right to do, I would ask for information whether his seat is to remain vacant in this Convention. MR. ABELL-If any person resigns, a proclamation is then issued for a new election to take place. MR. HILLS-The majority havihg voted in favor of my motion, I respectfiully beg leave to withdraw it. MR. CAZ.IB.4T —I move it be laid on the table. Leave was granted to withdraw the amendment. A motion having been made to reconsider. it was decided in the affirmative. MR. HILLS —I now move to lay that amendment on the table. The motion was seconded and carried. CHRISTIAN ROSELIUS.' 16 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION This motion was seconded and the yeas and nays called for. MR. CAZABAT —I move that the motion be laid on the table. MAIR. SLuvLIVAN-I call for the yeas and -That was lost. As-This is out of order. I . W. R. Fish, proprietor of the for'the official printer. nomination was seconded. EY-I think there is not a quo; therefore the resolution can upon. M-There was a quorum presse who did not vote were re Ey —Then there was not a ma -I would like to know what is this body. M,MAT-I move we proceed to a I Theyea ad nyswer ten aled or code blnk i 1I i o] order, for the matter of yesterday, in rela- tion to the iron-clad oath, has not been dis- posed of. MR. THO.As-I offer the following resolution: Resolved, That this Convention proceed to elect an'officer who shall be styled the Official Printer of the Convention, whose duty it shall be to print and publish the proceedings, to perform the necessary printing for the Convention, and to be responsible for the punctual and satisfactory execution of the work. MR. HEARDThiS is not in order. The next thing is to prepare rules for the government of this Convention. A motion was made to lay Mr. Thomas's resolution oi the table, and upon it appearing to be decided in the negative, the yeas and nays were called'for. The motion was put and decided in the negative. The yeas and nays were called on the original motion of Mr. Thomas, and it was decided in the affirmative. the following resolution was then offered. Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed by the'president to report rules for the government of this Convention, and the number and character of officers and employcs required for the transaction of business. A motion was made to call the roll. PIRESIDENT —I think the resolution was properly carried on the first call. An appeal was made from the decision of the chair, and the-yeas and nays called for. PRESIDENT —The yeas and nays are called for on the decision of the chair, which was that the resolution for printer was properly carried. The decision of the chair was sustained by a vote of 65 yeas, to 10 nays. MR. FOLEY-I move that we see w het her a quorum is present. PRESMIDENT —That is the proper motion. Secretary, call the roll. T he roll bein g called, it was found that there were but 75 members present, and consequently there was no q uorum. MR. PUItCELT, —I move we /djourn till .Moniday at 12 o'clock. The motion was seconded. PRESIDE.NT —It having been found there is no quorum present upon the vote for printer, the motion is now to adjourn. The motion was lost. MR. MONTE.k,':T —I move we take a recess of fifteen minutes. MR. MO-,,rL,:UE —I move, as an amend_ ment, that the sergeant-at-arms be sent for members to make a quorum. The motion as amended was carried. At 2 o'clock the Convention came to order, and upon the roll being called, eighty-three members answered to their names, as follows: Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Barrett, Baum An amendment was then proposed.T MR. THoMts —I call for th e ques tion. I want to know what it is we are going to lay on the table. MR. ABELT-The-resolution was to lay that on the table. nays. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. sented by Mr. Terry yesterday agd unanimously adopted, that the members of this Convention show that they are citizens, and have taken the oath. The motion was seconded. PREsIDENT —,The motion is made and seconded, that the secretary report to this body the nature of yesterday's resolution, in order to specify the members who have taken what is called the iron-clad oath. The motion was put an d carr ied. The pre sident then administered the oath to the f ollowing delegates, w ho advanced to his desk fo r the purpose: Messrs. Kugler, Normand, Balch, Dufresne, Thorpe, Bennie, Hire, Knobloch, Dupaty, Bromley an d Gruneberg. The roll being called, i t was ascertained that all of the members had taken the oath required by the resolution, excepting the following:' Messrs. Abbott, Ariail, Crozat, Ennis, Pintado, Wenck, W ells and Taliaferro. Mr. Thorpe rose to speak, but was called to order. MR. CAZABAT-I beg leave to state to the president and members of this Convention, that the two members of Rapides have not yet arrived in the city, but will be here today, or by to-morrow. They will come, i assure you, well prepared with the iron-clad. PRESIDENT-Gentlemen of the Convjention will offer their resolutions from their seats, and the first one catching the president's eye will have precedence. MR. STAUFFER-I think my resolution has precedence over alr others, as unfinished business. PRESIDENT Each day's resolutions expire with the session. Do you wish to call it up anew to-day? MR. STAUSFER —I do, and offer the follow Beauvais, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Balch, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Dufresne, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Goidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Lobdell, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat. Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Paine J. T., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson. PRESIDE.NT-The question now comes on the resolution to elect an official printer. The resolution was then carried, by 82 yeas to one in the negative. The following nominations were then made: Mr. Thomas nominated Mr. Fish. Mr. Mann nominated Mr. Mills. Mr. Brott nominated Mr. May. Mr. Gorlinski nominated Fish and Hills. The nominations were then closed. MR. CAMPBELL-I move we vote by ballot. A motion to lay it on the table was seconded and carried. The secretary then proceeded to call the roll, with the following result: FoR FIsH-Messrs. Abbott, Abell, Ariail, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Duane, Edwards, Flagg, Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maa s, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters-64. FoR HILT s —Messrs. Dupaty, Dufresne, Flood, Fosdick, Harnan, Howell, Kugler Mann. Montague. Paine J. T., Schnurr, Smith-10. Foa MAY-Messrs. Bromley, Brott, Balch, Hills, Wilson —5. FoR FIsHa AND HILLSMessrs. Gorlinski and Wenck-2. MR. HILLs-I move that Mr. Fish be unanimously declared the choice of this Convention. MR. FOLEY I call for the resolution pre e ing: Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed to draft rules and regulations for the government of this Convention, and that they report on Monday next. The motion was seconded and carried. MR. MONTAMAT-The rem ion is not complete, since it does not sta:e by whom the cdmmittee is to be appointed. MR. THOMAS-I move it be appointed by 3 I 17 the chair. . Seconded and carried. 18 DEBATES IN THE CONYENTION FOR THE REVISION MR. MONTAMAT-I offer the following:' Resolved, That the governor and the rest of the officers elected on the 22d of February last, and Capt. Hoyt, acting mayor of the city of New Orleans, be and are hereby invited to occupy seats within this room whenever the Convention may not be in secret session. MR. HEARD-I approve of the motion, with the exception of the last clause in relation to secret session. The amendment was laid on the table. PRESIDE.NT-The question is on the resolu vote will be re con sidered. The motion for re cons ideration was seconded. MR. SHTwe-I believe the Conve ntion ha s a perfect right to reconsider any resolution which has been passed. Ther e is a part of this resolution whic h I disappr ove; it cointains an expression ofopinion with which I do not concur. I believe that a quorum was pre sen t, but the resolu tion is offered on t he ground tht ththere wa s not a quorum present. We do not take any s uch ground as h a e orm o th at. The quorum of this body means, if I understand it correctly, a majority of the members elected and returned, and not a majorit y of the number ordere d to be elected. In the preli min ary organization of this body, being temporary chairman, I adopted the number 76 as constituting a quorum, for the re ason that no one knew how many had been elected, I could neither kn o w n or decide upon he ar say evidence; but until the Committee on Credentials reported, the presumption was that the whole number had-been elected. The presumption disappeared as soon as the committee reported and the facts were apparent. But 95 members have been elected and returned to this body; and I ask whether a majority of 95 does not constitute a quorum? MR. THORrPE-I accept the amendment. M,n. CAZABAT-The gentleman who has just resumed his seat, [Col. Thorpe,] has anticipated the motion which I now hold in my hland, for the purpose of reconsidering the vote of this Convention, in regard to the acceptance of the resignation of the Hon. Christian Roselius as a member of this august assembly. The motion which I intended to offer for the reconsideration of said vote does not specify any grounds or reasons whatsoever. I am actuated in this measure by motives of high personal regard and admiration for the Hon. Christian IRoselius. I take it for -ranted that the prestige of his name, of his presence, and participaticipation here, would be beneficial to this Convention. By his experience', his learning, his influence, the power of his eloquent voice, his great reputation all over the State. his services woulld, I admnit, be i nwdal blc}> tion. MR. THOmAS —If I understand the resolution it says that on the 22d February last Capt. Hoyt was elected mayor, which was not the case. The resolution was adopted. MfR. THORPE-I move that the resolution accepting the resignations of Messrs. Abbott and Roselius be reconsidered, as there was not a quorum present at the time of the adoption of the resolution. I introduce this resolution for the reason that I do not con sider that resignations ought to be accepted under any circumstances in such extreme haste. In accepting this office and running as candidates they made a bargain with the people of their districts to represent them here. Now, it may be possible that one of these gentlemen may have reasons for resigning; but business is not a reason for resigning. If it were so, you, Mr. President, would not have been here, and neither would I, nor many others; and I think that for such a reason none of us have a right to resign. I honor and respect Mr. Roselius. Hle is a gentleman whom we all delight to honor. We have reasons to respect him for his age and experience. It is barely possible that he left this House under a misapprehension; but when he comes to reflect upon the responsibility of having withdrawn from this Convention, he will perhaps think better of it, and he may return to conforn to the rules adopted to-day. I see nothing in his compliance that would be inconsistent with his antecedents.:~ It is simply this, " I will obey the laws of the United States until the Suipreme Court says they are not laws."' Mr. Roselius cannot certainly object to taking the oath. I believe he will even t s s s AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUITION OF LOUISIANA. and highly creditable to this Convention. Sir, I admire and respect him for his wellknown and appreciated talents as a lawyer, for his often tried honesty as a politician, for his undoubted and unsuspected loyalty as a citizen. No one here has a greater regard than I have for the private and public qualities of the " Nesto of the Loitisiana Bar." No member of this Convention will regret more than I do the loss of his intellect and of the mighty influence of his voice in the here to transact their business. If Mr. Rose t t t great and important labors which we shall who are so fond of taking the oath should~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mr. Roselius camne here he had already ta- i son. That was the reason why I hesitated ken the requisite oaths. If he and others in voting yes on the resolution yesterday. I were not gratified upon coming here they thought it was directed against Mr. Roselius. can never be gratified. If the gentlemen Does, or can any member upon this floor here are so extremely fond of taking this question the loyalty of Mr. Roselius? The oath, they should remember that it has al- resolution offered by my friend from the 19 i 20 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION I considering that when the committee ex amined the credentials the question of quali fication would be settled. Their action is adopted, and since no member moves for a reconsideration. the decision is final and binding. Mr. Roselius has sent in his resig; nation, and the Convention has moved to accept it. I understand that in regard to a reconsideration there is no objection; but suppose we do reconsider, what action is then to be taken? Is it to give the gentle men an opportunity to recall their resigna tions? Mr. Roselius thinks there is a conflict in regard to oaths, and therefore resigned. The question was then called for. Mr. Waters moved an adjournment, which he subsequently withdrew. A viva voce vote was taken on the resolu tion. A division being called for, it was decided in the affirmative-yeas 40, nays 26.'* JUDGE HOWELLI have not troubled this Convention so far with any attempts at speech-making, or presented any proposi tions: but I think it is time to go to work. With a view to that purpose, I offer the fol lowing resolutions, and when they have been read, I move that they be postponed until I o'clock on Monday; Resolved, 1. That a committee of -t members be appointed by the president of this Convention, to whom shall be referred the subject of immediate and permanent aboli tion of slavery within the State of Louisiana, with instructions to report as early as prac ticable, ordinances and provisions in relation thereto, to be incorporated in the con stitution of this State. 2. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, with instructions to recommend a preamble to the con stitution of this State, and report as soon as possible. 3. That a committee of- members be appointed to whom shall be referred the subject of the administration of the distribution of the powers of tihe government of the State of Louisiana, as set forth in the first title of the constitution of the State as adopted in 1852, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient., and report thereon as soon as possible. 4. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of the legislative department, as set forth in the second title of the State constitution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amend S econrbd W ard does not go far enough, if we wish Mr. Roselius t o r eturn. H e will not return if he be compelled to take an y oath. MR. THORPE-I did not introduce that resolution with any intention of occupying the time of the Convention. We admit that Mr. Roselius is a learned and patriotic man; but we wish to reconsider the resolution on the ground stated by our temporary chairman, (Mr. Shaw,) that there was not a quorum present. As regards taking oaths, I think that the gentleman from the Fifth District was a little out of place. I am willing to come into this Convention and take any oath that is prescribed to make me a fit representative. Mr. Roselius never came into a convention that was the first-born child of liberty after a mighty rebellion; and, moreover, the circumstances under which we are as sembled here never had any precedent in his experience. The gentleman who makes remarks about taking oaths so freely, taxes the good sense of the Convention. I do not know of any man, nor can I conceive of any gentlemen, however high and exalted, whether in a political or any other situation, who is too g r eat, grand and glori ous t o come here and take that oath. Howe ver, I still u rg e that my resolution be accepted —not on the ground that Mr. Roselius is not a proper gentleman to be in this Convention, because he is; nor because he has not taken the oath-but I do urge it on the ground that there was not a quorum present. MR. HENDERSON —-We have a quorum, if the proposition already asserted is true. As I understand, this Convention is composed of 150 members. Suppose a House to be composed of fifty members, and twenty-six be elected, does any member pretend to say that a majority of twenty-six constitutes a quorum? The ground was rightfully taken; 75 was an equal division of 150, and therefore 76 constitutes a quorum: Now, sir, it is necessary to understand our posi-~ tion. If the other parishes had conformed to their duty, they would have elected 150 members. As regards the question on which I voted in the negative, it was on the very point of qualification of members. I did so in conformity with the usage, and h AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. changes. alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon as possible. 13. That a committee of- members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of the ordinance as set forth in the eleventh title of said constitution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon as possible. MR. MONTAMAT-1 move as an amendment that a sufficient number of these resolutions be printed for the use of the members. MR. WATERS-I move to lay all resolutions on the table. MR. STAUFFER-I offer an amendment, subject to call. The amendment was seconded and lost. The motion of Mr. Montamat was put and carried. It was moved and seconded that the Convention adjourn till Monday, which was put and carried. ments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon as possible. 5. That a committee of- members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of the executive department, as set forth in the third title of said constitution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon as possible. 6. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, to.whom shall be referred the subject of t he judiciary department, as set forth in the f ourth title of said constitution with instructions to recom - mend cha nges, alterations and amendments, if any they m ay d eem proper and expedi - ent and report thereon as soon as possible. 7. That a committtee of members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of impeachments, as set forth in t he f ifth title of said constitution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon a s possible. 8. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of general provisions, as set forth in the sixth title of said constitution, with instructions to recommen d ch anges, alterations and amendments, if a ny they ma y deem proper a nd expedient, and report thereon as soon as possible. 9. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of i nternal improvements, as set forth i n the se venth title o f said constitution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations an d amendments, if any they m ay deem proper an d expedi - ent, and report thereon as soon as possible. 10. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, to whom shall b)e referred the subject of public education, as set forth in the eighth title of said cons titution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon as possibl e. 11. That a committee of members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of the m ode of revising the constitution, as set forth in the ni nth title of said constitution, with instructions to recommend changes, alterations and amendments, if any they may deem proper and expedient, and report thereon as soon as possible. 12. That a committee of- members be appointed by the president, to whom shall be referred the subject of the schedule, as set forth in the tenth title of said constitution, with instrucetions to recommend 21 0 der. The sergeant-at-arin,,4 having been instructed to proceed in quest of the members sufficient to form a quorum, the roll was called again. , When, in addition to the gentlemen a- I 22 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION ment of the Convention, then submitted the following report: The committee appointed to draft Rules, of Order for this Convention, beg leave to submit the following as their report: RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE CONVENTION OF THE PEOPLE OF LOUISIANA. THE DUTIES AND RIGHTS OF THE PRESIDENT. I. He shall take the chair every day at the hour to which the Convention shall have adjourned on the preceding day, and imme diately call the members to order. If a quorum should be in attendance, he shall cause the journal of the preceding day to be read. II. He shall preserve order and decorum; may speak to points of order in preference to members, rising from his seat for that purpose; he shall decide questions of order, subject to an appeal to the Convention, made by any two members, on which appeal no member shall speak more than once, unless by leave of the Convention. III. He shall rise to put a question, but may state it while sitting. IV. Questions shall be distinctly put in this form, to-wit: "As many of you as are of opinion that (as the question may be) say aye; " and, after the affirmative voice is expressed, "As many as are of contrary opinion, say no." If the president doubt. or if a division be called for, the Conven tion shall divide; those in the affirmative of the question shall rise from their seats, and afterwards those in the negative. The president shall then rise and state the de cision of the Convention. V. The president shall have the right to examine and correct the journal before it is read. He shall have general direction of the hall. He shall have a right to name any member to perform the duties of the chair, but such substitution shall not extend beyond an adjournment. VI. In all cases of election by the Conve ntion, the president shall vote; in other cases he shall not vote, unless the Convention be equally divided, or unless his vot(. if given to the minority, will make the( division equal; and in case of such equal division, the question shall be lost. VII. All committees shall be appointed by the president, unless otherwise especially directed by the Convention, in which case they shall be elected by the Convention: and if, upon such vote, the number required shall not be elected by a majority of the votes given, the Convention shall proceed to a second ballot, in which a plurality shall prevail; and in case a greater number than are required to compose or complete a committee shall have an equal number of votes, the Convention shall take another tote. ready named, the following members were found to be present: ,Messrs. Austin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Duane, Dupaty, Fish, Fuller, Gastinel, Hart, Mendiverri, Poynot, Purcell J. and Schroeder-14. A quorum now being present, the secretary proceeded to read the minutes of Saturday. MR. HE.NDERSON- I move we dispense with the reading of the votes of Saturday. No objection being made, the motion was adopted. MIR. STAUFFER —I wish that portion of the minutes read, relating to the acceptance of Messrs. Roselius's and Abbott's resignation. The reports of the papers read as follows: "Mr. Stauffer-If I am compelled to vote, I would like to have my vote divided." Since this should be attributed to Mr. Stocker, if the minutes read in the same way, I would like to have them corrected. MR. HILLS-The minutes are also incorrect in regard to the portion relating to Mr. Roselius's resignation. The motion was made accepting the resignations, when I moved as an amendment that Mr. Roselius be requested to give his reasons, which was declared to be carried; whereas the minutes read that it was laid on the table. I then moved to reconsider my amendment, which was al so carried; whereas if it had been laid on the table, it could not have been carried. MR. MONTAoMAT —The g entl ema n who appealed fr om the decission of t h e chair at the last session was M r. Gastinel, and not myself; and I would like to have the minu tes corrected accordingly. PRESIDENT —You have heard the minutes read and the corrections suggested. Shall the corrected record now be adopted'? The House so resolved, and the minutes were adopted. Mr. Brott offered a resolution, which was declared out of order, the president remarking that, in accordance with the decision of the House at the last session, the report of the Committee on Rules and Regulations were now in order. Mr. Stauffer, chairman of the Committee on Rules and Regulations for the Govern-. 6 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. VIII. All acts, addresses and joint reso- Convention when a question is put, shall lutions shall be signed by the president; give his vote, unless the Convention, for and all writs, warrants and subpoenas issued reasons assigned, shall excuse him. No by order of the Convention shall be under member shall be allowed to make any ex his hand, and attested by the secretary. planation of a vote he is about to give, or IX. In case of any disturbance or dis- ask to be excused from voting, after the orderly conduct in the gallery or lobby, the secretary, under order of the Convention, president (or chairman) shall have power to shall have commenced calling the yeas and order the same to be cleard. nays. RULES OF DECORUM AND DEBATE. XVIII. When a motion is made and X. When any member is about to speak seconded, it shall be stated by the presiin debete, or deliver any matter to the Con- dent; or, being in writing, it shall be handed vention, he shall rise from his seat and to the chair, and read aloud by the secretary. respectfully address himself to "Mr. Presi- before debated (lent." XIX. Every motion should be reduced to XI. If any member, in speaking or other- writing, if the president or any member wise, transgresses the rules of the Conven- desire it. tion, the president shall, or any member XX No person, except the commanding general of the department, the governor of may, call to order; in which case the mem- general of the department, the governor of her so called to order shall immediately sit an State, the heads of departments of this down, unless permitted to explain; and the down, unless permitted to explain; and the State, the mayor of the city, and such other Convention shall, if appealed to, decide person s as the Convention may see proper the case, but without debate. If the decision shall be admitted within the bar of the Conbe in favor of the member called to order vention. he shall be at liberty to proceed; if the XX After a motion is stated by the decision be against him and the case require decision be against him and the case require president, or read by the secretary, it shall 11 ~ ~ ~ ~~~be deemad to be in possession of the Conit, he shall be liable to the censure of the be deemad to be in possession of the on ~~Convention. ~vention, but may be withdrawn by the XII. When two or more members happen mover with the consent of the member who to rise at once, the president shall name the may have seconded the proposition. one who is first to speak. - XXII. When a question is under debate, XIII. No member shall speak more than no motion shall be received but to adjourn; twice on the same question, nor more than 2d, to lie on the table; 3d, for the previous an hour on each occasion, without leave Of question; 4th, to postpone to a certain day; the Convention, nor more than once until ath, to commit; 6th, to amend; or 7th, to an ouron achoccsio, wthot laveof5th, to commit; 6th, to amend; or 7th, to every member choosing to speak shall have postpone indefinitely-which several mo the onvntin, or oretha one utilpostpone indefinitely —which several mospoken. But the mover of any proposition tions shall have precedence in the order in spoken. But the mover of any proposition shall have the right to open and close the which they are arranged. and no motion to debate; and in case the proposition comes postpone to a day certain, to commit, or to from any committee, then the member mak- postpone indefinitely being decided, shall ing the report from the committee shall have be again allowed on the same day and at the right to open and close the debate in the same stage of the motion or proposition. like manner. A motion to strike out the enacting words XIV. While the president is putting any of a motion shall have precedence of a question, or addressing the House, no mem- motion to -amend, and, if carried, shall be ber shall walk out of, or across, the House; considered equivalent to its rejection XXII1. The previous question shall be nor shall any one, in such case, when a XXIII. The prvious question shall be member is speaking, entertain private dis- put in this form: "Shall the main question course or cross the hall between him and now be put?" It shall only be amitted the speaker. when seconded by a majority of the mem XV. No member shall vote on any ques- bers present, and, when carried, its effects tion in the result of which he has a separate shall be to put an end to all debate, and to and distinct interest, nor in any case when bring the Convention to a direct votehe was not within the bar of the Convention'lst, upon the pending amendment, and so when the question was put. And when any on, back to the first amendment offered member shall ask leave to vote, the presi- 2d, upon amendments, reported upon by a dent shall propound to him the question committee, if any; and 3d, upon the main Were you within the bar when the question was question. put? But when the yeas and nays are taken, On a motion for the eios question and any member ask leave to vote, the presi- a prior to the seconing of the same, a dent shall enquire of him whether be was call of the Convention shall be in order; within the bar wtthen his name was called? but after a majority shall have seconded XVI. Upon a division and a count of the such motion, no call shall be in order prior Convention upon any question, no member to a decision of the main question. On a without the bar shall be counted. motion for a previous question, there shall XVIL Every member who shahl be in the be no debate. 23 w 24 - DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION All incidental questions of order arising I received without special leave of the Conafterda motion is made for the previous vention until the former is disposed of. question, and pending such motion, shall be The order of the day shall be as follows: decided, whether on appeal or otherwise, 1. The unfinished business in which the without debate. After a call for the pre- Convention was engaged at its last adjournvious question has been sustained by the ment. Convention, the question shall be put and 2. Special orders of the day. determined in order as above, without de- 3. Ordinances and resolutions, in the orbate on either amendments or the main der in which they have been presented to question. the Convention. XXIV. Any member may call for a divi- XXXII. Petitions, memorials and other sion of a question when the same will admit papers, addressed to the Convention, shall of it. be presented by the president or a member XXV. No new motion or proposition on a in his place; a brief statement of the consubject different from that under consider- tents thereof shall be made verbally by the ation shall be admitted under color of amend- member introducing the same. ment, or as a substitute for the motion or XXXIII. Any ten members, after organproposition under debate. ization of the Convention, are authorized XXVI. When a motion has been once to compel the attendance of absent memmade and carried in the affirmative or nega- bers. tive, it shall be in order for ally member of XXXIV. Upon calls for the Convention. the majority to move for a reconsideration and in taking the yeas and nays on any thereof; provided. it is made on the same I question, the names of the members shall day or the next sitting day, before the order be called alphabetically. of the day is taken up. And a motion for XXXV. All questions relating to the proimmediate reconsideration shall supercede priety of business shall be decided without a notice that a reconsideration will be debate. a moved. XXXVI. A motion to adjourn, and a mo XXVII. When the reading of a paper is tion to fix the day to which the Convention called for, and the same is objected to by shall adjourn, shall always be in order, exany member, the Convention shall deter- cept when the yeas and nays are being callmine whether said paper shall be read ed, and when the question has just previor not. ously been put and negatived, these mo XXVIII. If a pending question be not tions and the motion to lie on the table, disposed of, owing to an adjournment of shall be decided without debate. the Convention, and be revived on the suc- XXXVII. No member shall absent himceeding day, no member, who has spoken self from the service of the Convention, untwice on the day preceding, shall he al- less he have leave, or be unable from sicklowed to speak again without leave. ness to attend. XXIX. When motions are made for the XXXVIII. No committee shall have the reference of a subject to a select standing right to appoint a clerk without the consent committee and to a standing committee, the of the Convention being first obtained, exquestion for the reference to a standing cept the Committee on Enrollment. committee shall be first put. XXXIX. It shall be in order for the Com ORDER OF USNESS FOR THE AY. ittee on Enrollment to report at anV time. ORDER OF BUSIN~ESS FOR THE DAY. XL. All officers appointed or elected by XXX. As soon as the journal is read and the Convention shall hold them during the the names of the members called, the pres- pleasnre of the Convention only. ident shall ask if there are any petitions, XLI. All ordinances before the Convenmemorials, or resolutions to be presented. tion shall be taken up and acted upon in The petitions, memorials and resolutions the order in which they are numbered, and having been presented and disposed of, re- it shall be the duty of the secretary to numports, first from standing and then from ber every ordinance in its regular order select committees, shall be called for; after upon its first reading. which the president shall dispose of the XLII. No standing rule or order of the messages, communications, resolutions and Convention shall be rescinded or changed ordinances on his table, and then proceed without one day's notice being given of the to call the order of the day, which shall motion thereof Nor shall any rule be susalways be taken up at 12 o'clock M. pended, except by a vote of two-thirds of XXXI. The unfinished business in which the members present. Nor shall the order the Convention was engaged at the time of of business, as established by the rules of the last adjournment, shall have the prefer- the Convention, be postponed or changed, ence in the orders of the day; and no mo- except by a vote of at least two-thirds of tion, or any other business, shall have the the members present. preference in the orders of the day; and XLIII. After a resolution shall have been no motion or any other business, shall be adopted by the Convention it shall be en AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. grossed in a fair hand, and after examina tion and report by the Committee on En rollment, shall be signed by the president and secretary. XLIV. The proceedings of the Conven tion shall be entered on the journal as con cisely as possible, care being taken to de tail a true and eaccurat e acc ount of the pro ceedings. XLV. Every vote of the Convention shall be entered on the journal with a concise statement of the question; and a brief state ment of the contents of each petition, me morial or paper presented to the Conven- tion, shall be also inserted on the journal. XLVI. In case any secretary, sergeantat-arms or door-keeper of the Convention fail to perform his duty, the secretary shall make a report thereof to the Convention without delay. XLVII. The secretary shall read the journal daily from the sheet on which the minutes are written and after being so read and corrected, the said minutes shall be recorded in the journal, and copies, authenticated by the signature of the secretary, shall be prepared for delivery at his desk to the printer by 10 o'clock on the day following that on which it shall have been read. XLVIII. The secretary shall be responsible to the Convention for the accuracy of the journals and for the fidelity and prompt execution of all work ordered by the Convention; he shall keep the bill book in his own handwriting; he shall endorse all bills, joint resolutions, and all documents proper to be endorsed; he shall keep in his charge all bills and documents in the custody of the Convention, and keep them in proper order. XLIX. The duties of the sergeant-at-armns shall be to attend the Convention during its sittings, to have the charge of the chamber of the Convention, and the committee rooms, and offices belonging thereto, to keep the same in order, and execute the commands of the Convention firom time to time, together with all such process, issued by authority thereof, as shall be directed to him by the president. L. The secretary or assistant secretary shall rise and remain standing whilst reading any document to the Convention. LI. The assistant secretary of the Con-! vention shall, in the event of the absence, resignation or death of the secretary, take charge of and attend to all the duties of his office until his successor shall be elected. It shall also be his duty to write with his own hand the journal of the Convention, when not acting as secretary. LII. The duties of the door-keeper shall be to keep the door of the lobby, announce messages and perform such other duties as the president may require. 4 LIII. No less than one-fifth of the mem bers present shall be entitled to call for the yeas and nays on any question. LIV. A quorum shall consist of a majority of the members elected and admitted to this Convention. LV. The officers of this Convention shall consist of a president, secretary, two assistant secretaries and as many clerks as may be required, an official printer, four reporters, a door-keeper, two messengers, a post-master, and such other officers as the Convention may deem necessary from time to time. LVI. On any question of order or parliamentary practice, when these rules are silent or inexplicit, Jefferson's Manual, or Cushing's work on Parliamentary Law, shall be considered as authority. The following committees shall be appointed by the chair as Standing Committees of this Co nvention: M 1. A Committee on Elections, to be composed of five members. 2. A Committee on Preamble and Distribution of Powers. to consist of five members. 3. A Committee on the Legislative Department, to consist of seven members. 4. A Comumittee on Executive Department, to consist of seven members. 5. A Committee on Judiciary Department, -to consist of seven members. 6. A Committee on Impeachment, to consist of three members. 7. A Committee on General Provision,s, to consist of seven members. 8. A Committee on Internal Improvements, to consist of five members. 9 A Committee on Public Education, to consist of five members. 10. A Committee on Mode of Revising the Constituition, to consist of five members. 11. A Committee on Schedule, to consist of three members. 12. A Committee on Ordinances, to consist of five members. 13. A Committee on Enrollment, to consist of five members. 14. A Committee on Printing, to consist of three members. 15. A Committee on Finance, to consist of three members. W. ST.UFFFeR, Chairnmn. .MIr. Montamat moved to print 300 copies for the use of the Convention, and thathe report be made the order of the day for the 12th inst., at 2 o'clock. PRESIDFr-T-Are you ready for the question'? It is that the report of the committee I 26 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION the blanks. Your motion will come in afterwards. MR. HARNAN-I move an amendment to the 10th article of Judge Howell's resolution in regard to the subject of education, that one member be appointed fiom each Represntative District and each of the parishes. Since it is a subject that interests us all, it is right that it should be composed of such a number. The amendment was seconded, and it was moved to lay it on the table., Mn. SHAW-I move that the resolution of Judge Howell be taken up section by section, and be in that manner considered. The motion was seconded, and decided in the affirmative. MR. STAUFFER-Mr. Abell has offered a substitute, and I think that a substitute is always in order. If the chair decides that it is not, I shall appeal from that decision. PREsIDENT-Order, gentlemen, order. The question before the Convention is in regard to filling the blanks. - MR. STAI;FFEri-I appeal from the decision of the chair; I wish to hear the substitute read. AMR. ABELL-Any action that may be taken in this matter will be proper. PRESIDENT-We must dispose of one question at a time, and I have already stated what the question for consideration now is. MIR. STAUFFER-It seems there is a little misunderstanding. wPRESIDENT-There is no misunderstandin,, whatever. I know what I am about. M. M. STAUFFER-I appeal. I don't think that the (Chair has a right to decide the question when an appeal is called for. The gentleman ( Mr. Abell) wa~ called to order when, in my opinion, he was in order. I appeal from the decision of the chair, and I desire to k,w,o whether his motion was in order or not. I do not believe that any member of this Convention should be cornpelled to sit down when he offers a motion that is in order. I appeal from the chair, and leave it to the Convention to decide in t he m atter. MR.. HENDERSO:N-I move tha~ the subs~titulte be laid on1 the table. The question was put and decided in the affirmative. MR. WI,.so-N-Th e resignation of Mr. Rogelius caus es the Committee o n In vestigation t o lack one member, and I th erefore move that one be appointedo o tak e h is place. The motion being seconde d and carried, the president appointed Mr. Shaw t o supply the deficiency. I MiR. THOMaS —These (Judge ltowell's) resol uti ons are in substance embodied in the report of the committee just read. There are, perhaps, one or t wo more standing committees needed than I mentioned in that repo rt, and I move that the resolution be laid upon the table. The motion was seconded. PRESIDE-NT-The motion is to lay up on the table the action of the committee upon the resolution introduced yesterday, and made the order of to-day. MR. BROTT-I move to amend by adding 'subject to call."' Amendment accepted. The decision of the Convention apparently was that the report of the committee should not be laid on the table. A division was called for, and a rising vote taken, resulting in a vote of 47 nays to 29 yeas, and the motion was declared lost. MR. MA.iNS-I move that the resolutions of Judge Howell be adopted, and that the chair proceed to appoint the committees. JUDGE HOWELI,-If the gentleman will withdraw his motion for a moment I will suggest the' following number of mlembers to fill the blanks. -,IR. MAN —I do so. MR. ABELL,-I movOe as a sub)stitute — PRESIDE-.-TThere is a notion before the House. JvDGE HowELL —My motion is that the following numbers be inserted in the blanks: .5 in the first, 3 in the second, 3 in the third, 130hl the fourth, 7 in the fifth, 11 in the sixth, 5 in the seventh, 13 in the eighth, 3 in the ninth, 9 in the tenth, 15 in the eleventh, .5 in the twelfth and 5 in the thirteenth. Judge Howell's motion was seconded. .MR. ASELL —I offier as a substitute — PugsIDF,NT-The motion is upon fillinlg uip I I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. act business without adopting some code by which we may be governed. I think it is improper for us to proceed'any further, until we have adopted such a code, and Inow move that we adjourn till to-morrow; at 2 o'clock. PRESIDE.NT —The vote will now be taken on the question of adjournment. A viva voce vote being taken, the president stat ed he wa s un abl e to decide, and took a rising vote, and it was decided to adjourn until to-morrow. at 2 I}.,i., by a vote of years 43, nays 32. [Cries of " there is already a question before the House.,"] PRESIIE.NT-The question is upon the appeal firom the decision of the chair, as to when a resolution to fill the blanks has been offered. and a substitute therefore presented, the motion to offer the substitute is in order or not. The ayes and.nays were called, anda the chair was sustained by the following vote: YEAS-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Bell, Bromley. Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Duane, Dupaty, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski. Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, H-lart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Hlowes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, .endiverri, Millspaugh, % ontamat, Montague, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O Conner, Payne, Poynot Purcell J., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy. Stocker. Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wilson-60. NAYS Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais. Bonzano. Brott, Campbell, Cook J. K., Davies, Diufresne. Goldman, Maas. M[aurer, Morris, Ong, Purcell S., Stallot fer, Thomas-18. PI:ESIDENT —WVe will now proceed to consider the resolution section bv section. A motion was then made to elect an ilsdistant secretary. PRESIDENT- -The imotion is not in order, as there is already a resolution lbetfore the House to fill uip certain blanks. The president being asked whether there wvas (I quorum present, directed the roll to be called, and the following answered: MAfessrs. Abell. Austin, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell. Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley Brott, Buckley, Burke. Campbell, Cazabat. Cook T. Crozat. Davies. Duane. Dupat. D)urell, Dufresne, Edwards, Fish. Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier. Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidriy,. Healy, Har- nan. Hart, Heard. Ienderson, Hills. Hire, Howell, HIowes. Kavanagh, Kno)loclih, Kuigler, Maas, Mann, Maurer. Mendiverri, Millspaugh. Montague, Morris, Murplh, E., Mnliirphy M. W., Newell, Norand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J.. Purcell J., Purcell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith Stauffer, Stiner. Stocker. Stump, Sullivan., Terry, Thomas, Thorpe. Waters. Wells, Wenck, Wilson-76. A quorum was found to be present. MR. THOMAS-Mr. President, I conceiv e that it is impossible for this body to trans- l TUESDAY, April 12th, 1864. The ltouse was called to order at 2~ o'clock, and the secretary proceeded to call the roll, when, after some delay, 76 members responded to their names. The secretary then read the minutes of the preceding day. IlR. IM-IENDERSON.1I move that the calling of the names of' the members present yesterday be dispensed with. The question was put and carried. MR. BRorr-I move that the secretary dispense with the reading of the report of the committee. PRESID.ENT-Genitlemeni, you have heard the minutes of yesterday read —is there any objection to their adoptions No objection being made. the minutes were adopted. 1'RESII)EN'rI —The report ol the Committee on Rules and Regulations was made the order for to-day at 2 o'clock, and accordingly.thiat matter now comes up. MR. MO(NTA.M.T —I move that the report of the Committee on Rules and Regulations be taken tip section by section. The motion was seconded and carried. The secretary then proceeded to read the report of the committee. section by section, including the title. MR. H 1L1.s —X move to amend the title so that it read,' Rules and Regulations of the Convention for the revision and amendment of, the Constitution of Louisiana," that being the official title adopted by Gen. Banks. and recorded in the minutites of the first day's proceedings. The motion was carried. The report of the committee being taken I II I I 27 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION up section by section, was adopted as MR. GOLDMAN-I move as another amendread, with the exceptions hereinafter ment, that notice shall be given to the chair stated, interruptions, comments, &c. previous to the reading of such resolution. It was moved that the first section he | r. Foley moved that the amendment be adopted. laid on the table. which was seconded and MR. MANN —Before proceeding to vote, I carried. would like to know what is a section " I The resolution as amended was then believe that this document before me is so adopted. divided that the word "section" nowhere Section 22 was taken up. appears in it. I am in favor of adopting MR. THORPE-Imove to amend by strikthe whole report as it stands, but I never- ing out the words " but to adjourn"' in the theless wish to know what is a section. second line. This was duly explained by the pres MR. MOTAM.AT-I move to lay the amendident. ment on the table. The motion being sec MR. FOLEY-I move the word "ballot onded, the amendment was tabled and the be stricken out in the 5th line of section 7, section adopted. and the word "vote " substituted. Section 24 was taken up. The motion was seconded, and on being MR. MONTAMAT —I move to strike out the put was decided in the affirmative, and the words "when the same will admit of it." amended section was then adopted. MR. THOMAS-I move to lay it on the Section 8 was then read. table. MR. HILLS-I move to strike out the The motion was seconded, and on a diviswords "joint resolution.s' ion being called for, Mr. Thomas's motion The amendment was put and carried, and was carried. Yeas 44, nays 9. the section as amended was adopted. The section, as amended, was adopted. Section 10 was read. Section 25 was read. MR. BELO-I move that the section be MR. CiZABAT-I move as an amendment amended by striking out the words "Mr. the word "resolution " be inserted before President," and substituting "Mr. Pres- "motion.,' lent and members of the Convention."' Mai. It was moved and carried that the amend- table. mentlbe laid on the table. The section was then adopted as read. The 13th section was read. MR. FOLEY-I move that the words " one hour" be stricken out, and the words "half an hour " substituted. The motion was seconded, but on a viva voce vote being taken it was apparently lost. A division was called for, and it was decided in the affirmative. Yeas 41, nays 34. The section as amended was then adopted. The 19th section was read. MR. HILLS-I move that it be amended by striking out the word "should "m in the first line, and substituting the word " shall." The motion was seconded and carried. MuR. MONTiMAT-I move another amendment to section 19-that the word "motion" be stricken out, and "resolution" inserted. Seconded and carried. The motion was seconded and carried. The motion, as amended, was put and carried. Section 26 was then read. MaR. GOLDMA.NS —I move to amend by striking out the thi rd l ine. Mt. GORLINSKI —I move to amend by striking out " the same day or." ~ MR. FOOEoY-I move the last motion be laid on the table. The motion to lay the amendment on the table was seconded and carried.; MR. GOLDmA.N —The next is my amendment. I move that the words sprovided it be made on the same day, or the next sitting day before the order is taken up," be stricken out. Mu. THOMAS-I move to lay that amendment on the table. Seconded and carried. Section 29 was read. A motion was made to strike out the i II I I I I II II 28 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. word "standing," upon which Mr. Thomas remarked that the word occurred twice, and was informed that it was the second MR. STOUFFER-I move to lay it on the table. The motion was put and lost. The amendment was adopted, and alterwards the whole section as amended. was adopted. Section 38 was read. dMR. STOCKER-I move to strike out the Ma. SH~~~~~~~~~~~~~w-I move to flirther amend the section.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ection by substituting "or" for "and" The motion was seconded and carried.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ adopted. PRESIDENT-The section has been striken~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Section 30 was then read. out.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ma. MO\~~~~~~~~TAMAT-I move that "one o'clock Section 40 was read,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ in the second line. Mn. WilsoN-I move to amend section 38~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The amendment was seconded and car- by-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ned, and the section, as amended, was Mn. Baorr-The gentleman is out of order.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ table. The motion was seco nded. MR. BROTT-Before that vote is taken I would state that I conceive it very difficul t to proceed to our business at the time sug- gested in the report, since we do not meet until 12 o'clock. PRESIDENT-We shall come to that motion in proper time. The motion now is to lay iupon the table the amendment. The motion was put and decided in the negative. PRESIDENT-The question of the amendment now comes up. MR. SiHAw-The rules, so far (a we have adopted them, fix upon no hour for the assembling of this Convention. They assume that we shall have finished our prl1iminarvy business at 12 o'clock. MR. HILLS-I move as an amendment to 6be amendment to strike out " 12 o'clock I and substitute "- o'clock," and the Convention can fix upon such a time as it chooses. The amendment was seconded and accepted byMr. Montamat. MR. WILsON —I move as a further amendment to strike out "which shall always be taken up at 12 o'clock M.7. The amendment was seconded and accepted, and the section was adopted as amended. Section 31 was taken up. MR. WImsON-I move to strike out "No motion or any other business shall have the preference in the order of the day." A motion was made to lay the amendment on the table, and was seconded and carried. MR. CAZABAT —I moved to amend by striking out "them," and inserting "their offices." MR. GOLDMAN —That was my amendment. The amendment was put and carried. and the section as amended was adopted. Section 41 was read and taken up. MR. WILSO.N —- mo v e to am end by substituting #' president "1 for " secretary " and striking out "make a r eport the reo f to'" and inserting "shall inform the Convention without delay./' A motion was made to lay the amendment on the table, which being lost, the amendment was adopted. The section as amended was then adopted. Section 47 was read. MR. CSzAABT-I move to strike out "by 10 o'clock." MR. STAUFFEIt-I move to lay the motion on the table. The motion was laid on the table, and the section adopted as read. Section 48 was then read. I MR. MONTAM.AT —I move to strike out ,,joint.2 Motion seconded. |MR. HILLS-I move to amend further by striking out the word "bills" preceding "joint." The amendment was accepted. PRESIDENNT-One motion at a time, gentle I I I I I I I II i I i I 29 one. 30 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION MRa. HILLS-I offer the following addition al amendment: If any member of this Con vention, after having taken his seat, shall be absent at roll-call three successive days without furnishing to the Convention a rea sonable excuse for such absence, his seat shall be declared vacant, and the election of a new member ordered. A motion was made to lay it on the table. M MB. SHAW-I think this is a subject of much importance-of more significance per haps than any other rule reported by this committee. I would like to see it referred to a special committee, and for this reason I hope that the motion to lay it on the table will not prevail. Mr. Hills's amendmenit was laid on the table. PRESIDENT —The amendment as first of fered now comes up. MR. THOMAS-Before that is put I would ask for information, if I am in order, as to how many members have been returned and taken their seats in this Convention. The president decided the inquiry to be in order, and the secretary announced that the number was ninety-three. The amendment was then adopted and also the section as amended. Section 55 was taken up. MR. FULLER-It seems to me that as far as the reporters are concerned, there should be a head, and I move to amend by stiking out "Four reporters" and inserting "One re porter and three assistants." MR. WILSON-I don't think we irequir( four reporters. MR. MONTA-MA-r-I move as an amen dmeni me n. The ques tion is on the resolution to strik e out the word joint." MR. HILs-3 —The gentleman accepted my amendment. PRESIDENT —-The question then is on the resolution to strike out the two words. The amendment was carried and the section adopted as amended. Section 49 was then read. MR. WILso —I move a reconsideration of the adoption of section 48. The motion was seconded, and on being put lost. Section 53 was taken up. MR. MONTAMIT-I move to amend by strking out " no less than one-fifth of the " and inserting'*any two." The motion was seconded. MR. THOMAIsI move to lay it on the ta t Section 54 was read. to the nineadment, that the word "two" be~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ma. MONTAMAT-I move that a quorum substituted.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ consists of76 members, instead of a majority Mn. SRAW —I think there should be a~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ment on the table. Mir. Shawls motion was carried. JUDGE HOWEL-I move, if it is in order. to substitute "one'; for "four." The motion was seconded and carried. and the secti o n oe adopted as amended. Section 56 was read. MR. HENDERSON-I moVe that all after the words "or Cushing's works on Parl:ix- meitry Law' be stricken outs table. The motion was seconded, and it was an- nounced as decided in the affirmative, when the yeas and nays were called for. JUDGE HOWELI-I request the gentlemen who moved and seconded the last resolution, 'to withdraw for a moment. As neither gentlemen withdrew, the roll was called and the motion lost-nays 59; yeas 23. I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. phy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Thomas, Terry, Waters, Wilson-76. A quorum being present, the journal of the previous day was read and approved without a dissenting voice. The secretary read the minutes and they were adopted without objection. MR. HENDERSONN-The resignations ot Messrs. Roselius and Abbott have not yet been acted upon, and I move they be ac cepted viva voce. PRlESIDENT-We will now proceed in order as directed by section 30, rules and regulations. No petitions or memorials were presented, MR. TERRY-I hold in my hand a preamble and resolution, which, on being passed, will wipe out the foul stain and damnable Ordinance of Secession which was passed ill this very hall on the 26th of January, 1861, by traitors to God and their country. I present the following: Whereas, At a Convention of delegates assembled in this hall on the 26th day of January, 1861, and purporting to represent the people of this State, it was ordained and declared in the words following —that is to say; "An Ordinance to dissolve the union be tween the State of Louisiana and other States, united'with her under the com pact entitled' The Constitution of the United States of America.' " We the people of the State of Louisiana, in Conventiont assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in Convention on the 22d day of November, in the year 1811, whereby the constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said constitution were adopted; and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be and the same are hereby repealed and abrogated; and that the Union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States, under the name of'The United States of America,' is hereby resolved. " We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana' hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance t o s ai d goverement; and that the is in full possessionl and exerci.se of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent Stat~ The motion was seconded. A motion to lay it on the table was lost. MR. HF,,NDErSo,E-The two works named in the section are directly in conflict, and that is the reason why I made the motion. The amendment was adopted. MR. STOCKER-I desire to move a reconsideration of section 55, which provides for thea offic ersa of this Convention, bo inserting among those enumerated sergeant-at-arms. The motion was carried and the section adopted as amended. A motion was made to strike out the remainder of the section, referring to committees. MR. ABELL-I move that the committees be embraced in one grand committee, to be composed of one person for every five hundred votes cast at the election. MR. CAMPBEI. —I move to reconsider section 21, and that all aftere"more" be strcken out. The motion was lost. The section as amended was then put and adopted. MR. SHAW-I move we take up the res:lutions that wer e mad e the order of the day yesterday. MR. HILLS —I move these resolutions be made the order of the day for to-morrow at 1 o'clock. The motion was put and carried. A motion was made to adjourn till to-morrow at 4 P. M., which was amended by insterting 12, and the Convention adjourned accordingly. WEtSBmESD.IY. April 13, 1864. The president, Juldge Durell, t ook the chair at 12., and the Convention was opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. D' Ossey, o f the Christian Commission. O n a call of the roll, the following members answered to their names: .Messrs. Abell. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Balch. Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bonz7ano, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Crozat, Duane, Dufresne. Dupatv, Durell, Edwards. Ennis. Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier' Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry Healy, Hart. Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, .Maas, Mann, Mauirer, Mendiverri, MNillspaugh, Montamat, Moutag-ue, Morris, Mur I '31 32 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION AIMR. MoN-AMAT-I move that the original resolution be adopted. The motion was seconded and apparently carried, when IMessrs. Goldman and Caz abat called for the yeas and nays. MR. HENDERtSON —The yeas and nays can not be cadled for unless one-fifth are in favor of so doing, and I wish to know whether that means one-fifth of the menim bers elected or those present. PRESIDENT-One-fifth of those present. Upon calling the roll, there was a tie, which the president decided by casting his vote in the negative. Mat. SHA.W-1 move we take up the res olution made the order of to-day at 1 o clock. | MR.. Mfo-\xAMAT-I offer the following res olution: Resolvedl. That the constitution which shall be framed by this Convention shall h ave no effect until the same shall have been ratit ed by the vote of the majority of the voters of Louisiana at the ballot-box qualified at the various election precincts of the State, under the regulations and laws in regard to the election of State officers. Those voting for the constitution shall endorse on their ticket " ratificationf' and those voting against it i no ratifica tion." The governor shall publish a proclamation duly notifying the people of this State of the holding of said election, and ordering the sheriffs of the several parishes of this State to cause an election to be held under the (.xisting laws. Said election to take place twenty days after the adjournment of the ConNvention. It was miov e(I to lay it on the table, and the yeas and nays w ere ca lled for. PRESIDE;NT-Unless one-fifth so request. A viva vote vote was taken, which being unsatisfactory, a rising vote was taken and the resolution adopted by a vote of 42 ayes to 38 nays. AI[R. S. I'u;r:Ll,i submit the following: Resolved, That the clergy of this city and environs be invited to come together and publish a list of those willing to act as chaplains to this Convention, and that one of the number officiate each day. The motion to lay it on the table was secon ded and carried. MR. HIxIgERso~N-I move to accept the resignations of Messrs. Roseliusg and Ab.bott. " We dofurther declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force, and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed."' Now we, the people of the State of Louisiana, loyal to the constitution of the government of the United States, d., hereby announce, declare and ordain, that the said pretended ordinance of secession, so passed by disloyal traitors without the authority of the people and in violation of the Federal constitution, together with all other ordinances, acts and proceedings of said secessionists in said Convention. and of the pretended State government instituted under the said ordinance of secession, are utterly null and void. Resolved, That, representing the people of the State of Louisiana, we hereby declare her adherence and the adherence of the people of Louisiana to the Constitution of the United States, and that we will, by all our efforts, sustain the people and the government in all its efforts to end the present unjust and most wicked rebellion. [Applause.] The resolution was seconded. MNR. HENDERSO.N —I move to lay it on the table. The motion was laid on the table —sote, ,42 ayes to 21 nays. MR. MONTAMAT-I1 submit the follow ing: R esolved, Tha t the members of the Conventiot shall receive from the public treasury compensation fo r the ir service s, which shall be eight dollars per day during their attendance on, and going to and returnin; from the Convention. AInd be it.farther resolved, That a committee of five be appointed by the president for the purpose of fixing',he compensation of the several officers and employ6s of this Convention, and order such appropliation as is necessary for their expenses. The committee to report- as early as possible. The motion was seconded. l Mti. HSRXAX-I move as an' amendment to that resolution that the members of this Convention shall attend gratuiitoiusly. The motion was seconded. A motion to lay the amendment oni the table was seconded and carried. MR. CAzK,T-I move to lav the original resolution on the table. The motion was seconded and lost. I t AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. one week at leastat a Normal School, to be conducted by the Board. 5th. To furnish and provide the neces sary books, stationery and apparatus for the use of such schools, and in addition thereto to purchase and furnish an outfit of a well selected library, &c., for each freed person in the several school districts who is above the age o attend ing sch ool dut y,t t a cos t to each, including a cas e to contain the same, not exceeding two and a half dollars, which sum shall be included in th e general tax hereinafter provided, but shall be de ducted from the laborer's wage s by his em - ployer, when such books are furnished. 6th. To regulate the course of study, dis cipline and hours of in struction for children on e e ys a l on w eek d ays, and adult s on Sundays to requir e such con formity to their regulations and such returns and reports tfom thei r teachers as they may deem necessary to se cure uniformity, thor oughness and efficiency in said schools. 7th. To have generally the sa me author ity a nd perfo rm the sa me d uties that asses sors, supervisors and trustees have in the Norther n States' i n the mat ter of establish ing and co nducting Common Schools. And for the full a cco mplis h ment of these purposes and the p er fo rmance of the d uties enjoined upon them, the Board s ha ll ha ve full power and authority to as sess, and levy a School Tax upon real an d personal prop erty, including crops of plantations, in each and every before mentioned School Dis trict. The said taxes so levied shall be sufficient in amount to defr ay the cost and expense of establishing, f urnish ing and con ducting for th e perio d of one yea r the school or schools so est ablished in e ach and every of the said districts; and said taxes s hall be colle cted from the per so n o r persons in the occupation of the propert y as - sessed. 8th. The taxes so assessed and levied in and for each district shall be collected and paid over to the Board by the parish provost marshal, within thirty days after the tax list and schqdule shall have been placed in his bands; and he shall forthwith report to the Board whether there are in the districts of his parish any buildings available and suitable for school-houses, and shall at all times, when required, assist by his authority the Board in carrying out the spirit of this order.' The taxes, when collected, shall be forthwith deposited in the First National Bank of New Orleans, subject only to the order of the whole Board, which shall make a monthly exhibit of accounts and report of their doings to the commanding general. 9th. In the performance of all their duties the Board shall co-operate, as far as practicable, with the superintendent of Public Education, recently elected. MR. THORPE-I wish the gentleman would withdraw his motion for a moment. The resolution was not withdrawn, nor was there any action taken thereon .AR. ABEL —- offer the following resolution: Whereas, General Order No. 38, dated Headquarters, Department of the Gulf, New Orleans, March 22, 1864, the United States, through their proper officer, Major General Banks, has assumed to levy and collect taxes of the people of this State without their consent, and appropriate the same for domestic purposes, as will appear by the following taken from the Era, the official paper, and set forth in the words and figures of the Educational Order; EDUCATION O F FREEDMEN. HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE GULF, l New Orleans, March 22, 1864. General Orders iao. 38. In pursuance of the provisions of General Orders No. 23, current series, for the rudi mental instruction of the freedmen of this department, placing within their reach the elements of knowledge which give ibytelli gence and gr eat er value to labor, and r e ducing the provisions necessary thereifor t o an economical and efficient school system; It is ordered that a Board of Education, consisting of three persons. be hereby con stituted, with the following duties and powers: 1st. To establish one or more Common Schools in each and every school district that has been or may be defined by the-parish provost marshals under orders of the provost marshal general. 2d. To acquire by purchase or otherwise, tracts of land, which shall be judged by the Board necessary and suitable for school sites, in plantation districts, to be not less than one-half acre in extent; to hold the same in trust to tlemselves until such schools shall have been established, when thev shall transfer all the right and title thereto that may have vested in them to the superintendent of Public Institutions, or other competent State authority. 3d. To erect upon said plots of land such school-houses as they may judge necessary and proportioned to the wants of the population of the district, where there are no buildings available and proper for school purposes. And in this, as in all other duties, they shall exercise the strictest economy. 4th. To select and employ proper teachers for said schools, as far as practicable, from the loyal inhabitants of Louisiana, with power to require their attendance for the purpose of instruction in their duties, 5) 34 34 DDEBAT'iS IN THE CONVENION FOR THE REVISION 10th. The current school year shall be YEAS —-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barestimated from February 1st, 1864, to Feb- rett, Beauvais, Bell, Bonzano, Brott, Burke, ruary 1st, 1865. Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook Terrance, Crozat, 11th. The following officers and citizens Cutler, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, are appointed upon this Board, and will be Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinlel, obeyed and respected accordingly: Geier, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Harnan, Hart, Colonel H. N. Frisbie, Twenty-second Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Infantry, Corps d'Afrique. Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Lieutenant E. M. Wheelock Fourth In- Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, farntry, Corps d'A.,fi iqu. Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Isaac G. Hibbs, New Orleans. Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne John, By command of Major General Banks, Paine J. T., Poynot, Purcell John, Pursell RICHARD B. IRwiX. Sam., Schroeder, Schnuiirr, Seymour Shaw, Anid whereas, Taxes imposed without th Smith Spellicy. Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner 1Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas. consent of the people are unconstitutional Stauer, Sullivan, Terry, Torpe, Thomas. and injurious to their rights and libertie aters enck, Wilson —— 72. be it N.,Ys —Messrs. Abell, Baum, Buckley, Resolved, 1st. That the rights asserted in Campbell, Goldman, Gruneberg, Maas, the order aforesaid are unconstitutional Montamat Pintado —-l and in derogation of the honor of the The Convention then proceeded to the State and the dearest rights of the people.i business of the day —Judge Howell7s res 2d. That any legislation, or attempt to loutions legislate, or any amendment or attempt to amend the Constitution of Louisiana, will Mu HiLs-i move they be taken up seribe a partial admission of the righit claimed, tim. and an abandonment of the just rights of The motion was carried. the people of Louisiana. The first section was then read. 3d. That this Convention ought to ad- MR. ABELI present a substitute tfor journ until all the powers belonging to the people, supposed to be abridged by said that, which is as follows order, be restored to them by their repre- Whereas, Slavery hating existed i this s~~~~entatives. ~country, by custom, firom its earliest settle,Be it fiedhe Resolved, That the Conven lments, by sanction of the constitution and Be it ftirthei, Resolved, That the Coiiei aso h nitd:taes an d y t e ition do adjourn until, 1864, in order adlaws of the United States, and by the conto go to or correspond with General Banks stitution and laws of this State; and, and the authorities of the General Govern Whe eas, The owners of slaves have im IWho'e)-e, The owners of slaves have im ment of the United States, before taking proved property therein, by virtue of such and he uthritis o th GenralGovrn-proved property therein, by virtue of such any further action, and that a day be ap- costitutioi and laws, and under pointed to ascertain the wish and puirposes the protection and guarantee thereof; and, of the General Gove ent in the p Wereas, All that is good and truly great, of the General Government in- the prein- ises *and in individuals, or States, must have its foun Be it fitrther Resolved, That the fore-. ditioi in good faith and justice goiiig resolutions are not intended to im- Be it therefore Resolved, That no propo pair or controvert in any manner the right sition for the abolition of slavery be enter of the General Government to require the trined by this Convention until ways State of Louisiana to contribute by taxe and means are first provided for a full, fair and meanstable foiresatpoide oafl,fi or otherwise her just proportion of the x and equitable compensation to all loyal penses of the war. owners. either by thtfuture labor of the penses FIHImv ha h c eslaves, or out of the treasury of this State, -MR. FisH-1I miove, that thet, resolutions be or ofthe United States, and for the removal laid indefinitely on the table. of all emancipated slaves out of the State. The motion was seconded. The resolution was laid on the table. MAIR. HFN,DERsoN-By referlring to sectionI MR. CAZABAT-I offer as an amendment to 10, I find something in relation to a Com- the originalresolutionthat "unconditional" mittee on Public Schools, etc., therefore i be inserted after " immediate." the matter is already before this body, and Laid on the table. the gentleman is out of order. MAR. CUTLEIR-I move that "five"' be in MR. BOTT-I move to lay these resolu- serted in the first blank. tions on the table. MR. THOMAS-I would like to call the at Messrs. Abell and Hills called for the tention of the Convention to the fact that we yeas and nays. are about to do the most important act of The roll was called, and the resolutions all, fi the accomplishment of which we are laid on the table. assembled, when we proceed to adopt this t,I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. resolution,while the State of Louisiana is not M. CA?A.7BAT-NO, sir, I have not spoken one-fourth represented, though the unrepre- on the subject, but think it open for discus sented districts have a direct interest in it. sion. I merely made a motion. I consider From the city of New Orleans, of all tihe it almost useless to discuss the resolution nmembers elected, there is not a fourth, not a which is now before this Convention. Its tenth, Mr. President, who did at the break- object is to place in the hands of a commit ing out of this rebellion, or who ever will, tee of five the most important and momen own a slave. The country parishles will be tons question which will come before this sooln represented in this body, and it is the Convention for discussion. I, for one, sir, country parishes that have the deepest in- coincide partly with the gentleman who has terest in this question. and the members just taken hisseat; but, on the other hand, will soon be with us. I differ from him inii regard to the insinua I, for one, am unwilling to adopt this tion which he has made against the country resolution now. I am unwilling to proceed parishes. Let it be said for Western Loui farther in this matter, believing that every siana, that, far from being "Copperhead," one of those gentlemen, when elected, will go its inhabitants are as true, brave and loyal with us. When this resolution is then final- men as can be found even in the city of ly carried-when slavery is finally abolished New Orleans ill Louisiana-we shall have avoided all Sir, if yon do not see these seats filled by complaints of that party called Copperhead the country delegates, it is not their fault; If we do it now, sir, we do it mailnly through for tihey are anxious, willing and ready to the instrunientality of gentlemen from New participate in the proceedings of this assem Orleans. bly. BTt let some of these city gentlemen I will therefore move, AIr. iPresident, that go beyond our lines from Alexandriia to that resolution be laid upon the table subject Shr eveport, and they will find a very good to call, that it may be taken up again when reason for this absence. Those remarks, ,he State is properly represented. sir. were uncalled for and very unjust. MR. HEEN-DERSON —-Every mual inii this Con- As, far as the question of compensation is vention is here under the proclamation and concerned(, I take the ground that the peo the iron-clad, so that every one may speak ple of Loiitii,,t have not a right to donate his sentiments without being considered dis- a dollar, not a single red cent from the loyal. The only question is, shall the p(eo- public tleasury to pay slaveholders. I. for pi)le oi Louisiana pay for those slaves, or one, sir, will. regardless of the consequen shall the U nited States? I shall ote " yea' i ces, riaise my humble voice for the immedi oil the question of tabling. The question ratli- ate, nconditional and permanent abolition er is. whether this matter shall be submitted of slav eryiv in the State of Louisiana. [ Ap to a c,)mmittee of five, and on their report plause. ] she question of conipennsation inay oi many If compensation. however, is to be grant iiot comie IIIup. e have seventy-six members eld, in the name of justice, in the name of here. miore than one-lialf of the whole, and equity,. let it be made by the United States they are competent to pass upon the ques- government, and then only to loyal citizens tion. The country parishes have not seen who shall prove themselves to have beetn fit to send delegates here, though required. such from the beginning of this unholy re It seems to me that this rather savors of bellion. [Applause.] I Copperheadism. They want their pay ini Mr. President, I hope fotr the welfare of advance. before the delegation is sent here our country, for the benefit and honor of I sly that we come here for the purpose of this Convention, that the committee which freeing the slaves, and the only question is, shall be appointed on this resolution, will whether this resolution shall be adopted or bring in a report compatible with the pro iiot. gressive spirit of the ag,e-in accordance PIREZSIlENT-I think the gentleman has X1- yo will do a great injustice to all classes of ready spoken twice. citizens. 35 36 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION must and will be regarded by every good man before he can act rightly. We must do justice, and while I assume that there is no man here who is opposed to freedom, we should look the whole in t he fac e and endeavor to act justly as well as to extend liberty. Slavery is not a new thing. The Greeks had slaves in other Christian ages; Rome had slaves, with the power of life and death o ver them. sMr. Presi dent, we sho uld look to our predecessors as much as we can, and unless we can do thi s, we may legislate ourselves into that which will meet neither the approbation of our own people nor of the world. PRESIDENT-The question is on the motion to lay the first resolution on the table, subject to call. The motion was lost and the first resolution immediately adopted. MR. GASTINET-I move to reconsider that portion of the resolution fixing the number of the committee at five. The motion was adopted. MR. BUCKLEY-I move that the number be seventeen. The motion was tabled. MR. MONTAMAT-I move to insert "eleven" in the blank. The motion was adopted. The blank- of the second section was filled by inserting' seventeen.' MR. BROTT-I would like to inquire if resolutions were not passed fixing the number of members upon these committees at ,three? PRESIDENT-No, sir. The second section was then adopted. The third section was taken up. MR. SMITH-I move to fill the blank with ! seven." Motion was carried and the section adop MR. CUTLER-This discussion is certainly entirely foreign to the issue before the Convention. As presented it is only to point out the manner in which the emancipation of slaves should take place in this State, not in relation to by whom they shall be paid for, whether by the Federal government, the State, or at all. Its only object is to I appoint a committee to whom the whole matter may be referred. It seems to me that the resolution as it is read is in its terms clear and to the point. It seems to me, Mr. President, that in no other shape could it be so well presented. I do not agree with the gentleman, that we should wait until all the members elected have arrived, for it is not in contemplation to act upon this great and important subject, but it is only proposed to refer it to a proper committee. When that committee has reported then let this discussion come. It seems to me, Mr. President, that for seven days we have been working to very little purpose, and I think we should now go to work, avoiding all these discussions. MR. ABELIL-As I understand this debate, it is wished by some that this resolution should be deferred until certain members should have an opportunity of presenting themselves here. I think the remarks of the last gentleman very proper, but would like to make a little explanation of my own opinion. Though my father and ancestors have been, I believe, slaveholders, and I have myself owned several slaves, since I have had the power to think I have not seen the day or moment when I believed in slavery in the abstract. But while I do not bel;.eve in slavery, I do believe that while we regard liberty, we must also look to justice, and should go back to see whether or no we are acting entirely justly. We must not confine ourselves to this day or to this country, but must take a retrospective glance and see how these individuals —our fellow-citizens —have acquired their rights. How did they? Under the express language of the constitution of the United States, and the guaranty of this State, and the several laws of Congress, enacted under the clause of the constitutions giving that guarantee. These are, I say, matters that I 0 ted. The fourth section was taken up. MR. BAUM-1 move that the blank be filled by 11 thirteen." A motion to amend to 1, five" was called and tabled, and being declared lost a rising vote was taken and it was tabled, and the amendment lost by 29 ayes to 37 na s. y MR. THomAs-I rise to a point of order2 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. and would ask whether, according to rule 17, every member present is not obliged to vote unless excused by the Convention, fo r I find that less than a quortm are voting now. The motion to insert "thirteen' was put and lost, when "nine" having been moved was carried. and the section then adopted as a whole. The blank of the fifth section was filled by "seven," and then, upon Mr. Goldman's motion, adopted. The sixth section was read. MR. BROTT-I move "nine I be inserted. MR. MO,-TA~AT-I amend by suggesting " nine."o The amendment was carried. MR. GORLINSKI-I amend to " eleven.'" It ws moved to lay all the amendments upon the table, and the motion was lost. Mr. Montamat~s amendment was carried, and the section then adopted as a whole. The seventh section was taken up. MR. HITn,s-I move to fill the blank with ' five.,, MR. MONTA.AT-I amend to " three." MR. BAUM-I amend to "seven." Both amendments were seconded. MR. GOLDMX\N-I move to lay both of them on the table. The motion was carried and the original motion prevailed, whereupon the section was adopted. The secretary read the eighth section. lMR. BAU.M-I move to insert'-seven " in the blank. The motion was carried and tile section The eleventh section was then read. MR. BELBL-I move to insert "five." Motion carried and section adopted. Section twelve was' read. MR. HENDERSON —I move to insert "five." MR. BELI,-I amend to " seven." Mr. Bell's motion was carried, and the section as amended adopted. Section thirteen was read. The blank was fille d by nin sertin g "five " an d the section adopted. MR. MONTiMAT —I move that another section be added. and present the following: Resolved, That the following Standing Committees be appointed by the chair: one on Enrollment, to consist of five members; one on Finance, of five members; one on Expenses, of five members; and one on Printing of three members. The motion was adopted. MR. MOXTAMAT-I move that the resolu tion be adopted as a whole. The motion was carried. I PRESIDENT —I would state to the Conven tion that I must have at least twenty-four and perhaps. forty-eight hours in which to arrange the committees, and suggest that in the meantime we adjourn. MR. GOLDMAN-I offer the following: Resolved, That applause, pending discus sions in this Convention, is out of order, and disallowable. A motion to lay upon the table was lost, and the resolution on being put to vote was lost. MR. SULLIVAN-I- present the following: Whlereas, It is currently reported that many members of this Convention are not citizens of the United States, but owe alle giance to foreign powers; And whereas, it becomes the duty of this Convention to Mhave its members placed above suspicion; be it Resolved, That the members of this Con vention, of foreign birth, be required to pre sent to the president of this Convention evidence of their naturalization on or before 12 M., Thursday next. Ha. HARNAN-I hope none of us are not ( citizens of the United States, but should that be the case, no such persons should be admitted. The president decided that the motion to lay upon the table was lost. MR. GoLDmAN-I appeal from the deision of the chair. adopted. The ninth section was taken up. MR. S.MITH-I move the blank be filled by five." The motion was ca~-ried- and section adopted. The tenth section was read. MR. HENDERSON-I move to insert " seven." IMR. HAR.Al —I move as an amendment "nineteen," representing one member from each representative district and parish. The motion was seconded. MR. BAUM-I amend to "nine." "Eleven " w as the n s ugge sted an o carried, when the section was adopted. 37 38 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THiE REVISION voter. I, for one, have voted here for fourteen years, and you have only to refer to the registry to find the names of all voters. I hope, Mr. President, that this matter will not be pressed by the opposition. MR. GOLDMAN —I have heard that there are enemies here, but we do not exact from them any certificates, and why should we be required to exhibit our papers? I think it may be safely assumed that there are none among ns but citizens. MR. TIIORPE-I wish to record my vote against this resolution, because I consider it an outrage, both upon foreigners and every native born citizen. MR. MONTA.IAT —I will vote for this resotlution, because I am informed that some members of this Convention, of foreign birth, took the iron-clad after their election, notwithstanding they had previously taken out British protection papers. No such gentlemen ought to be admitted as a member of this Convention. [Applause.] MR. HxRxxx-I would like to know whether the gentleman took the oath to the Sonthern Co nfedera cy. [Laughter.3 MR. MO-NTAM.T-Yes, of course, we all did. [Cries of "No, no not all."] PRAplseE.T-Are yo u rea dy fo r the question? Th e yeas and nays where call ed fobr, and 39 members arose, whereupon the president directed the se cretary to call the roll, and the following was the result; YEA S-Messrs. Ariail, ABustin, Barrett. Baum, Beauvais,Be, Beill, Bennie, Brott, Bucllkley, C ampbell, Cook T., Cutler. Duane, S )ufresne, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Gtstinel, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard. Hills, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Mann. Maurer, Montamat, Montague, Murphy,-, W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Pay-ne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Plursell S., Seymou-r. Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Waters-49. NAYS-Messrs. Bailey-, Bonzano,. Buirke. Crozat, Duipaty, Ennis, Fish, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Henderson, Hire. Howell, Kugler, Maas, Menldiverri, Millspaugh, Morris, Murphy E., Purcell J.. Schnurr, Shaw, Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer. Thorpe, Wenck, Wilson —29. The resolution was accordingly adopted. MR. SCHROEDER-I protest against to proceedings. MR. GOLDMAN'-I second the protest. MR. WENCK-It see,Ins to me very strange that at this stage of the proceedings such a resolution should be introduced. We have not a legislative power, but titles have not been called in q uestion b y any one. Must not a man be a citizen wh en he is elected a nd pre sen ted here? I do not speak for myself, but for the whole. Supposing any should not be citizens, w hat actionicould this Convention take to expel him from his seat? None at all, I think. It is a matter left entirely tollwn the people, when they elect a man to def end th ei r interests and to do what is right. I say that this is n ot a stage of the proceedings when such a resolution c an be offered, and tha t it can rea ch no one; even if it did, no one could be rightfully expelled. MR. WATERS-I would ask the gentleman what his action was in regard to the i ronclad? If t hese tests w ere r ight in that inst ance, they are in this. MR. SULLVAN —I p re sented my resoluti on becaus e it is r epor te d through the city theat there are several members here who are not naturalized citizens, though they have taken the iron-clad. I, as a citizen of foreign birth, feel hurt, and I wish to show to this Co nv ention that all in m y situation com e here as bona fide citizen s of the United States. Though I am foreign born, I owe allegiance to the United States, and am willing at any moment to go to the president's desk and exhibit my papers. I believe there is not a foreigner here but wlio is willing to do the same, and more than that, I.will say that I do not believe there is one here who will object to it. [ Applause.] MR. WImsox —I think what papers have already been exhibited are sufficient. It seems to me a slander upon those of foreign birth to go on this way requiring proofs of this kind. Was not the production of the iron-clad sufficient? I move the matter be dropped. MR. HIRE-If I am in order, I shall raise my feeble voice and ask that I may be heard. I hope to God that you will not insist upon testing this question beyond its proper bearings. It is well known that every man here must be a citizen, and so must every AND AMENDMEN1 OFP TilHE CONSTITTIO()N OP LOUISIANA. MR. WILsoN-I move we adjourn. AR. HowELI. —It seems to me that in accordance with the request, we should adjourn till to-morrow, at 5 o'clock, in order to give the president time to appoint the various committees, and I therefore make that motion. MR. HARx\,' —I amend to 7 o'clock. MR. ST.AUFFER-If we are to adjourn, I move we go into an election of assistant secretary and reporter. MR. MO.NT.M3AT-I move we proceed to elect two assistant secretaries. MR. HENDERSON —I move as an amendment to elect the number prescribed by the rules of this body. MR. MOI;TAM-iT-I accept the amendment. M[R. BFLl,-I offer the following resolti The motion was carried. On calling the roll a second time, Mr. Murphy received 52, and Mr. Hamilton 24, and Mr. Murphy was accordingly declared elected. MR. BROT,R-I rise to a question of privilege, and offer the following: Resolved, That Adjutant General Thomas be and is hereby invited to take a seat within the bar of this Convention. The resolution was adopted. Gen. Thomas entering the hall with Governor Hahn, was received with loud applause, to which he made the following acknowledgment: Mr. President, I thank you most kindly for this compliment. The following gentlemen were nominated for the second assistant secretaryship Messrs. Gordon, Winfree, Hamilton, Cruise. The roll was called with the following result: Hamilton, 38; Gordon, 19; Winfree, 19; Cruise, 0. | There was accordingly no election. UIpon a second call the vote was as fol! lows: Gordon, 20; Winfree, 22; Hamilton, 35. TMR. HENDERSON-I move that the two highest only be voted for. No objection being made, the roll was called, and Mr. Hamilton received 47 and Mr. Winfree 30, whereupon Hamilton was declared elected. MR. WILSON-I move we proceed to the nomination of reporter. The motion was carried, and Messrs. A. P. Bennett and H. A. Gallup were nominated for that position. The roll beiiing called, Mr. Bennett received 50 votes and Mr. Gallup 24. -IMR. WILso' —I move Mr. Bennett be dec l ared the unanimous choice of the Convention. f ofi. THoMA,It is evident that one man cannot perform all the duties that appertain to the office of reporter of this body. It is impossible that he should take down the proceedings and write them out, etc.; I therefore introduce the following Resolved, That the reporter be and he is hereby authorized to employ three assistants. MR. MONTAMAT-I amend to two assista n ts. MR. C~Z~BAT-I move to lay that motion on the table. tion: Resolved, That we proceed to elect two assistant secretaries, a postmaster, reporter and messenger. MR. HENDERSON-I move we elect such numbers of these officers a%s are prescribed. The resolution was carried. The following gentlemen were nominated candidates for assistant secretaryship: MNR. AUSTIN —I am requested by Mr. Ga1lup to withdraw his name. Messrs. I-I. A. Gallup, T. H. MNfurphy and Parker. Several members stated that in consequence of the hasty mode of proceeding they had no opportunity of presenting several gentlemen as candidates. The following were nominated: Messrs Carter, Hamilton. Winfree, Gordon and Cruise. MIR. HILLs-I move that the assistant secr etaries be elected separately. Upon the first roll-call the result was as follows: Cruise................................ 0 Carter................................. Parker............................... Winfree...............................11 Gordon................................11 Hamilton.............................13 MIiurphy..............................35 No candidate having received a majority of all the votes cast, there was no election. MR. MONTAMAT —I move the two receiving the h igh est number of votes cast be considered the candidates. .39 40 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION The motion was put and carried, and the Paine, Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell original resolution was then put and carried. S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, MP.. BROTT —I move we proceed to elect Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, MR. BRTTI move we proceed to elect Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wilsona postmaster. 66. Messrs. Toomy, Davis, Miller, Ganon, The secretary read the minutes of the Gordon, Smith and Koch were nominated. preceding day. The roll was called with the following re- MR. HII.LS —I move that the reading of suit: Toomy 3, Miller 7, Davis 7, Gordon 11, the Educational Order be dispensed with. Smith 11, Ganon 15, Koch 21. The motion was adopted. There was no election. PRESIDENT-Gentlemen, you have heard MR. HENDERSON-I move that the two the minutes read. Is there any objection to highest only be voted for. their adoption? Upon the second vote Mr. Koch received MR. CAMPBELL —Before the adoption of 30 and Mr. Ganon 47 votes, and Mr. Ganon the minutes. I request the secretary to read was declared elected. was declared elected. the names of the members voting yea onl MR. DuA-NE —I move we proceed to elect r. ontamats resotion. -)r. Mlontaimat's resolution. a messenger. Mr. CAZABAT-I call for the same. The motion was carried. MR. C(MPBEI,T,-I wish my name placed MR. BROTT —-move that Chas. Benedict among the nays. I did not vote for the be declared by acclamation the unanimous adoption of the resolution. choice of this Convention. M. CZBAT-I request the same. The motion prevailed, and Chas. Bene- Theminutesbeingaccordilycorrected The minutes being according~ly corrected. dict was elected messenger. dit was elected messenger. and no further objection being made, they MiR. THOMAs-If I am in order, I have a were accordingly adopted. resolution to offer. MR. HEARD —I rise to a question of privi MR. B~tu.q —1 move we adjourn till Fri M. BAUM-I move e adjourn till Fri- lege. I wish to ask for leave of absence day, at 12 o'clock. Tday, at 12 o'cinwsslosk. n for my colleague, Mr. Kugler, on account The motion was seconded and lost, nays of serious illness in his family; he having 44, and yeas 26. ~~44, and yeas 26. ~received a telegram to that- effect. MR. THOMArs-My resolution is: Ma. THOMAs-My resolution is MR. FIsu —I move that the request be Resolved, That the sergeant-at-arms be authorized to employ two assistants granted. Ma. MON-TAMAT-I move to lay it on the The motion was seconded and carried. MR~. MOXNTAMALT —1 move to lay it on the ~~~~~~table. ~PRESII)DENT-If there are no petitions or table. memorials resolutions are in order. The motion was lost, and the original mo- MR. Fisn — offer the following resolution put and carried. tion A motion was made to adjourn till Fli-i Resolved, That the governor of the State day. at 12 o'clock, and carried. day, at 12 o'clock, and carried. be requested to issue his proclamation, or dering an election as early as possible for iFR[D,- April 15, 1864. one delegate from the Tenth Representativ( FDAR pil 1864. District of the parish of Orleans. to fill n The Convention was called to order, and vacancy in the representation fromi sulch disafter prayer by the Rev. Mr. Mason, the trict and parish. secretary called the roll, and the following PREsII)ENsr —Thl' resolution is not secgentlemen answered to their names: onded. Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Bar-. ENI)ESN —I have a resolution fo Ba- Ml. I-IENI)I,,R.so.N —I have a resolution for rett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook the same purpose, to accept the resignations J. K., Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Ed- ot Messrs. Abbott and Roselius, and that wards. Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, the governor be requested to issue his writs Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gaidry, to fill the vacancy to fill the vacancy Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, M. CABAT — move to lay that on the Howell, Howes, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, M CAZAA-I move to lay that on the Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, table. Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, The motion was seconded and lost. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. MR. THOMAS-I have a resolution I desire to offer: Resolved, That the printer of this Convention be ordered to print 300 copies of the Rules and Regulations of this body, as adopted. We have now only the report of the committee. I don't know that that rule was adopted, or printed, as ordered, without reference to the clerk. MR. MONTAMAT-I move as an amendment that the names of the members to be appointed on the several committees be also PRESn DENT-The question is on the original resolution. The resolution was carried. MR. STOCKER Resolved, That the official printer be atUthorized to print 300 copies of the Constitution of Louisiana of 1852, for the use of the members. MR. MONTAMAT-I offer as a substitute, 200 copies. MR. HOWELL-I would offer the following as a substitute, stating before I offer it, that the State librarian has informed me that he has a sufficient number of the Revised Statutes in the library for the use of the members, and in that volume are contained the constitutions of the State, of 1812, 1845 and 1852; therefore be it Resolved, That' the State librarian be requeste d to furnish each member of this Convention one volume of the Revised Statutes, for use during the session. PRESIDETOKr-The original resolution is to print 300 copies; the amendment is 200, and a substitute is offered. The question is on the substitute. MR: HILLS-I would like to inquire whether the cop ies a re to be furnished gratuitously. MR. HOWELL —Certainly, during the sitting- of the Convention. The substitute was adopted. MR. STOCKER-I have another resolution I wish to offer: Resolved, That the rules and regulations be so amended as to require all orders and resolutions to lie over one day, unless referred to some committee before being acted upon by the Convention. printed. MR. HILLS —I move that the printer be instructed to insert the subject of each section in the margin. The resolution as amended was carried. MR. S. PURSELL —I present the following: Resolved, That in consideration for and in just appreciation of the former services in the cause of the Union and the great respect entertained by the loyal people of the State of Louisiana for the Hon. Christian Roselius, and the fact of his election being a spontaneous action of the truly loyal people of the parish which he has served so long and faithfully, that he be invited to withdraw his resignation and resume his seat in this Convention. MR. HENDERSON —I move to lay it on the table. The motion was seconded and a viva voce vote taken, but the president being unable to decide, directed a rising vote. The result was, yeas 42, nays 31. It was accordingly laid on the table. MR. HENDERSON-I offer the following: Resolved, That the members of this Convention shall receive from the public treasury compensation for their services, which shall be ten dollars per day during their attendance on, going to, and returning from the session of this Convention. Be it further Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed by the president to determine upon the compensation of officers and employ's, and the mileage of members from the parishes, and repor t as early as possible. MR. BROTT-I move that the resolution be divided, and that we vote on the first pro.position. The motion was seconded. MR. FOLEY-I move to lay them both on the table, subject to call. The last motion was negatived, as was the ,MR. MO.NTAMAT-Before you can amend them you must have the matter passed upon. We must be governed by the Art. XLII of Rules and Regulations, and regard must also be had to the rule in relation to altering our regulations. MR. STOCKER-I did not propose to alter the rules, but merely to amend them. Rule XLII reads that "no standing rule or order of the Convention shall be rescinded or changed without one day's notice being given thereof," etc. This is not a standing rule. I give notice that I intend to offer that to-morrow. T 6 41 42 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION preceding one, and the original resolu- funds for the purpose of paying the moemtion. bers, officers and employes of this Conven. MR. THo.IAs-I rise to a point of order, and tion the mileage and per diem to which they are respectively entitled; the same to be call your attention to rule XXXII, which we paid by the treasurer of the State on a waradopted. This reading of resolutions and rant of the President of this Convention. adopting them without knowing what they MR. CAZABAT-I move to lay the resolucontain is, I think, prohibited'by that rule. tion on the table. MR. THORPE-I offer the following: The motion was lost. Resolved, That a committee of -- mem- MaR CAZABAT-I call for the yeas and nays Resolved, That a committee of —- members be appointed by the president to whom on the adoption of the resolution. all matters shall be referred to be brought In response to this, twenty-four members before the Convention'in regard to our rela- r tion with the Federal Union, and that theose, and the president directed the roll to committee be called a Committee on Fed- be called. eral Relations. MR. ARIAIL-I understand the previous MR. BROTT-I move to amend by saying vote to have been on the adoption or rethat the committee shall consist of" five" jection of the resolution, and should have members. voted yea, had I supposed that it was in re The amendment was accepted, and the gard to laying it on the table. resolution adopted. MR. FOLEY-I think the rule XV should Ma ~ELIrese olauetion aofpri-b ttned t. be attended to. SECRETARY —I am requested to state, by the.president, that certain resolutions having been read, they must be brought before the house according to the rules. The roll was then called on the adoption of the original resolution: YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Buckley, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Duane, Dufresne, Foley, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Howes, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat. Montague, Murphy M. W.* O'Conner, Poynot, Purcell S. Schroeder, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Waters, Wilson —37. NAYs-Messrs. Barrett, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Davies, Dutpaty, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Hire, Howell, Maas, Millspaugh, Morris, Murphy E., Ong, Paine, Pintado, Purcell J., Seymour, Shaw, Stocker, Stumpf, Stauffer, Thorpe, Thomas —37. The secretary announced that there was a tie, upon which the president (Judge Durell) cast his vote in the i ne gative, and the resolution was accordingly defeated by a vote of 38 nays to 37 yeas. MR. CAZABAT-There is no quorum. I request that the name of Mr. Roselius b.called. PRESItENT —The Secretary will call the roll. Upon again calling the roll, the following gentlemen responded: 'Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Bar I simply d es ire to have that appear on the minutes of the Convention. viR. GOLDIAN-r rise to a question of privilege. I desire to be put down as having seconded that substitute, f or I should most cer tainly have done so. PRESIDENT —The whole of this conversation is out of order as well as the offered substitute. If the gentleman presents this m at ter to the Conv ention, and the Convention chooses to direct that the substitute be put upon the minutes, that will be done; otherwise not. The Convention took no action in regard to the matter. MR. MIOXTAMA.T-I offer the following: Be it Resolved, That the sum of one hundred thousand dollars be and the same is hereby appropriated out of the general AND AMENDMENT. OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. rett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gor linski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, How ell, Howes. Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiver ri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Mor ris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O' Conn er, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Purcell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorne, Thomas, Winters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —79. It was announced that 79 members had answered to their names. PRESIDE-T —A quorum is now present and the rule XVII must be enforced; call the roll again on the adoption of the resolution. The roll was called, with the following result. AYEs —-.Messrs. Abell, AuLstin, Baum, Beauvais,Bell,Bennie,Bofill,Buckley,Burke, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Duane. Dufresne, Flagg, Foley, Fuller, Gorlinski, Geier, Gaidry, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Poynot, Purcell J., Purc ell S., Schroeder, Spellicy, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wilson-45. NAYYs —-Messrs. Ariail, Bailey, Balch, Barrett, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Campbell, Cazabat, Dupaty, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Fosdick, Gastinel, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Kavanagh, Maas, Mann. Morris, Murphy E., Ong, Paine, Pintado, Shaw, Stocker, Stumpf, Stauffer-31. The resolution was accordingly adopted. MR. MO-T.-iGUE —I would sk a reconsideration of the question allowing ten dollars per diesl to members of this Convention. A motion was made to lay this on the table, and on taking the vote the president then announced it carried. MR.. THOMAS-I call for a division —for The roll being called, the resolution to reconsider was laid upon the table by the following vote.' YEAs —Messrs. Abell, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Duane, Dufresne, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Geier, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O:Conner, Paine, Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy. Stocker, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Waters, Wilson-41. N.AYs-Messrs. Ariail, Bailey, Balch, Barrett, Bennie, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Campbell, Cazabat, Davies, Dupaty, Ennis, Fish, Fosdick, Gastinel, Goldman, Harnan, Hart, Howell, Maas, Mann,,Maurer, Millspaugh, Montague, Morris, Ong, Paine, Pintado, Pursell S., Shaw, Stumpf, Stauffer, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck-35. MR. STAUFFER-I would like to have the following resolution laid over until to-morrow: Resolved, That a committee of five members be appointed by the president, to wait upon the proper State officers, and ascertain if any and what amount of bonds have been issued, and what amount, if any, remains outstanding for the purpose of arming and keeping the State militia against the lawful authority of the United States. X PRESI)EN-T-Ifthere are no further resolutions, we Will proceed to the unfinished business of yesterday. The secretary will read the list of ommittees appointed by the chair. The secretary read the following list: STANDING COMMITTEES. I. Emancipation- Bonzano, chairman; Howell, Abell, Edwards, Goldman, Stocker, Cqzabat, Bennie, Murphy E., Paine J. T., Sc'roeder-11. II. Preamble —Heard, chairman'; Montague, Sullivan, Cook T., O'Conner, Spellicy, Waters-7. III. Distr-ibution of Powers-Thomas, chairman; Kugler. Foley, Bofill, Stumpf. Ong, 3romley-7. IV. Legislative Departmentg —Fosdick, chairman; Thorpe, Stauffer, Cazabat, Hire, Knobloch. Schniirr, Taliaferro, Wells-9. V. E.ecuttive Department —Fish, chairman; Austin, Gruneberg, Bromley, Crozat, Davies, -Mann-7. VI. Judiciary Department-Howell, chairman; Heard,'Beauvais, Fuller, Henderson, Cutler, Seymouir-7. VII. Impeachment-Wilson, chairman; Bailey, Gastinel, Morris, Paine J. T., Smitl~ -6.~~~~~~~~ the yeas an d nays. Let us see who votes, and how. The yeas and nays being demanded by eighteen members, the president directed the roll to be caileld. As several of the members had in the meantime left the hall, and others were about leaving the doors were closed, while the sergeant-at-arms was sent for absent members. 43 44 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION VII. General Provisions-Mann, chairman; Cook J. K., Foley, Geier, Maas, Wenck, Buckley-7. IX. Internal Improvements — Gorlinski, chairman; Arial, Campbell, Flood, Healy — 5. X. Public Education-Hills, chairman; Howes, Lobdell, Burke, Hart, Murphy M. W., Terry,. Wells, Gaidry, Balch, Edwards, Maurer-11. XI. Mode of Revising the Constitution — .Cutler, chairman; Knobloch, Baum, Stiner. Harnan-5. XII. Schedule-Gruneberg, chairman; Dupaty, Shaw, Dufresne, Ennis, Flagg, Gaidry-7. XIII. Ordinance-Shaw, chairman; Poynot, Kavanagh, Kugler, Mendiverri-5. XIV. Enrollment- Thorpe, chairman; Brott, Milispaugh, Pintado, Crozat-5. XV. Finance —Brott, chairman; Montamat. Normand, Schnurr, Sullivan-5. XVI. Expenses-Pursell S., chairman; Bell, Duane, Newell, Payne J., of Jefferson-5. XVII. Printing-Purcell J., chairman; Fuller, Barrett —3. MR. CAZABAT Can I rise to a question of privilege? PRESIDENT-The question? MR. CAZABAT-The names of Messrs. Roselius and Abbott were stricken from the rolls when there was no action upon the matter. I call now for the number of voters upon that question, upon the action of this Convention in regard to their resignations, the vote taken this morning. PRESIDENT- Do you wish to reconsider? MR. CAZABAT-Yes, sir. PRESIDENT-Did you vote in the negative? MR. CAZABAT-Yes, sir. PRESIDENT- YOU are out of order.* MR. MONTAMAT-I move to have the rules sus pended for the purpos e of reconsidera tiodn. The motion was lost: MR. ABELL-I ask to be excused from sitting as one of t he c ommittee upon the first resolution, on the ground that nothing can move me to retract my substitute, since I am satisfied that nothing else is prac ticable. MR. CAZKBAT-I move that the gentle man's excuse be accepted, since he does not wish to make one of the Committee of Emancipation. The motion was seconded. [Cries of " out of order."] AIR. ABELL —I withdraw my request. JUDGE HOWEL-I believe the gentleman has withdrawn. MR. CAZABAT-iHe cannot do it without our consent, agreeably to rule XXI, adopted by this Convention; but I consent to waive the point. MR. MONTAMAT-I wish to make a motion to suspend the rules for the purpose of -introducing a resolution relating to the Enrollment Committee. MR. DUANE —I move it be laid upon the table. The motion to table was defeated, whereupon the original motion was carried. MR. MONTAMAT —This is my resolution: Resolved, That the Committee on Enrollment be and is hereby authorized to ap point one chief clerk and as many other enrolling clerks as may be necessary, subject to the approval of the Convention. MIR. STOCKER-I rise to offer an amendment, and move to strike out "subject to the approval of the Convent ion. " The amendment was accepted, and the resolution passed. PRESIDE~T T-Now that we have gone through the regular order of business, as fixed by the rules, is there anything fur ther? MR. CAZABAT —A vote has been taken in regard to the resignations of Messrs. Rose, lius and Abbott. On counting that vote, it will be found that a quorum was not presen,t; and therefore the sense of the Convention was not taken upon a fair vote. I rise to move a reconsideration of that action. PRESIDENT-Did the gentleman vote in the affirmative? MR. CAZABAT-I don't know. Reference to the minutes will determine. PRESIDENT —If you voted in the affirma five, you are out of order. MR. HILTS-In order to bring before this Convention the subject of fixing the hour of meeting, I move that whe n this Convention adjourns, it adjourn until 5 o'clock in the afternoon. MR. STtUFFER -As an amendment, I would suggest 12 o'clock. MR. WENCK —I move to lay that motion on the table. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. MR. THOMAS-I offer, as an amendment, i 1 o'clock. MR. HARNAN-1 move to amend by substituting 7 o'clock. MR. STAUFFER-Is this matter debatable? PRESIDExrT —I think not. MR. STAUFFER-I call for the yeas and nays on that question. PRESIDENT-You are out of order. MR. WENCK-I move that all the amendments be -laid upon the table. The original resolution was called for. MR. MONTAMXT —Can I amend? PRESIDENT —Any amendment not passed upon will be in order. MR. MONTAMAT-I would amend to 1 o'clock. PRESIDENT-Not in order; that has been passed upon. PRESI9DENT-The question recurs to Mr. Hills's motion. A viva voce vote was taken. PRESIDENT —I am unable to determine. The'ayes and nays were called. PRESIDENTT —-Mr. Secretary call the ayes Cries of "there is no quorum." The roll was again called, when 80 members responded. PRESIDENT-The question is decided unless it is appealed. Those who fail to vote cannot be permitted to destroy the vote of the House. Some action on the part of the Convention is requisite. MR. STOCKER-I offer the following: Resolved, That a committee of five be ap pointed by the president, to inquire into the cause of the absence of Messrs. Wells of Rapides, and Taliaferro of Concordia. Also, to inquire into the expediency of ordering an election to fill their places. MR. HEARD-Before the question is put, I would move to insert the name of Mr. Lobdell. The amendment was accepted. MR. CAZABAT —I moVe the motion be laid upon the table. The motion was s econded and lost, and the original resolution was adopted. PRESIDENT-I appoint Messrs. Stocker, Montague, Ariail, Heard and Mann to act upon this com mittee. Resolved, That Section 54 of the Rules of this Co nvention shal l read a s follows: -A quorum shall consist'of two-thirds of the members elected and admitted to this Convention." SECRETARY-Before putting that question I will state that I am requested by the president to ask the members to remain after adjournment in order to organize the committees appointed this morning. A motion to adjourn until to-morrow at five o'clock was carried, and the Convention dispersed to meet again at that hour. and nays. The resolution was adopted by a vote of 43 ayes to 27 nays. MR. GASTINEI —I offer the following: Resolved, That a committee of five members of this body be appointed by the president to wait upon the governor and inform him that the Convention is organized and prepared to receive any communications he may have to make to this body. MR. MONTA-MA?T-I move to lay that mo tion on the table. MR. WENCK-I do not see that we require any instructions from the governor. We are assembled to do business, and there can be no instructions given to this body, but our consciences alone must tell us what we have to do. I think this resolution is entirely out of order. We are not a body for legislative purposes, but we only meet here, sent by the people to perform certain duties without instructions from anybody. I shall vote against the resolution. The resolution was adopted. PRESIDENT-I appoint Messrs. Gastinel, Shaw, Thomas, Goldman and Bofill. MR. THORPE-I would like to have the following resolution lie over until to-morrow: Convention met at 5 -o'clock P. M., pursuant to last adjournme nt, and ca me to or - der. MR. HTiOs-I move that Ju dge Ho well be appointed presidentP ro term. Motion seconded and carried. Prayer was offered by Rev. Dr. Hopkins, and the secretary then called the roll, when the following gentlemen responded: Messrs. Abbott, Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook Terrance, Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, 45 1. SATURDAY, April 16, 1864. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne Jno., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell Jno., Pursell Sam, Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan,,Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wilson-75. I wish it laid over or referred to a committee. MR. HILLS —I move to refer it to the Committee on Legislation. MR.. HENDERSON —I move to lay it on the table. The motion was carried. MR. SULLrVAN-I wish to have the names of those delegates of foreign birth who have failed to produce their naturalization papers read to the Convention. PRESIDENT-YOU are out of order. MR. MONTAMAT-I present the following: Resolved, That the Hon. A. A. Atocha, provost judge, Department of the Gulf, be and he is hereby invited to a seat within the bar of this Conventi on. MR. GOLDMAN' —I move to lay it on the table. MR. MONTAMAT —I call for the ayes and The secretary proceeded to read the minutes of the second day. MR. MONTAMAT — I move that the reading of the mlinutes be dispensed with. Motion seconded. MR. CAZABT-I move to lay that motion upon the table. Mr. Goldman seconded. The last motion was lost, and the original motion carried.' MR. THoMAs-I would like to call the attention of the House to the fact that 1 did not propose the printing of the constitutions. My proposition was to print three hundred copies of the rules and regulations adopted by the Convention. The minutes were then adopted as read. Pr.sIDEST —Are there any petitions? nays. Twenty-seven members rose, and the secretary proceeded to call the roll. ~ YEAS —Messrs. Bailey, Bonzano, Bromley, Ennis, Flagg. Goldman, Gaidry, Henderson, Hills, Maas, Mann, Millspaugh, Montamat, O'Conner-12. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Cazabat, Dufresne, Davies, Duane, Edwards, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Purcell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wilson —-(i7. The motion to lay on the table was lost. MR. TIORPE —I offer the following amendment: " That the resolution include all judicial officers of the parish of Orleans." The amendment was accepted. MR. FOLEY-I move to lay the amendment on the table. The sense of the Convention upon the original resolution was taken viva voe, when the president, being unable to decide, ordered a rising vote, and the resolution was adopted as amended by 68 ayes to 8 nays. MR. BROTT —I offer the following: None were presented. PR.ESIDEN'T-Any memorials? If not, we will p ro ceed to resolutions. dIR. MOe TAMAT —I of fer the fo llowi ng? Resolved, That the sum of one hundred dollars be paid out of contingent funds of the Convention to Mr. H. A. Gallup, for his services as acting assistant secretary of this Convention before the same was organized. The resolution was adopted. Mu.. BELLI offer the following: Resolved, That the standing committees are hereby authorized to appoint and engage such clerks as are necessary for the duties of the committees. Resolution seconded. MR. CAZABAT-I move to lay on the table. MR. PURCELL —I offer the following: Resolved, That article 96 of the constituition of the State of Louisiana be so altered and amended as to read thus: "All civil officers for the State at large shall be voters of and reside in the State, and all district or parish officers shall be voters and reside whithin their districts or parish, and keep their offices in — such places therein as may be required by law." 46 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. is the official language of this country. I believe in a homogeneous people, in one la nguage and one system of law, and I be lieve that the publication of the laws of this State, or the proceedings of any convention, or any English court, in the French lan guage, is a nuisance and ought to be abol ished in this State or any other. Mr. President, I made that motion delib erately, and whether the Convention sees fit to adopt it or not. it is my belief that the English language alone should be the lan guage of this State, and if there are any in the State who cannot speak, read or write the language, they should learn to do so before they reside in the country any longer. MR. HEINI)ERsoN —It has been remarked that the majority of the people are French. Now I have just as much right to say, (hav ing a knowledge of some of the parishes,) that the Germans and Irish preponderate over the Americans and French. I have just as good ground for asking an amend ment in favor of the Germans, most of whom I know to be intelligent, but they can not read the English language, or if they can, cannot speak it. Louisiana is behind in many points of view. Many American born citizens of French descent cannot read or write the English language. The provision of our constitution is, that the pub lic records, and judicial and legislative pro ceedings of the State be promulgated, pre served, and conducted in the language in which the constitution of the United States is written. That language is my doctrine, and I never will vote for any other language but the American. I move that the German language be included, if the French is also used. It is no more right that this particu lar people ask to have our proceedings in French, than for me to go to another country and demand that the laws shall be published in my native language. I believe that the people should be educated in the English language. Our courts say that petitions, etc., may be in French or English, but the judgment must be rendered in English, the sense of which arrangement I do not understand. I do not believe in this half English half French mode of procedure, that we must have all written records in the Resolved, That the attorney general of this State be and is hereby requested to give to this Convention his legal opinion as to the right of this body to exercise legislative powers and appropriate moneys from the public treasury, &c. MR. BAU.~ —I move that it be laid on the table. The motion was carried. MR. BROTT-I call for the ayes and nays. The call was not sustained. MR. HIIEDERSOX —I wish to have my vote changed on the vote tfo lay on the table Mr. Montamat's last resolution. MR. MO.NTAM.:T —I submit the following: Resolved, That the journal and debates of this Convention be printed by the printer of this Convention in English and French separately, and each member of the Convention be furnished with three copies of the journal and debates for distribution among his constituents, each member to select copies in either language. MR. TFHO.MIAS —I second that resolution. MR. HILLS-I move to amend by striking out " French." MR. MO.NTANtAT —I move to lay that on the 47 table. MR. S. PURSELI-I move to amend by adding'-Spanish.,,' MR. MONTA.M-IT-I accept the amendirent. MR. STAUFFER-1 Move to lay on the table the resolution as amended. MR. MO'.\-FA-.UA.T —It is well known that in the parishes about the city of New Orleans there are a great many persons who do not understand, or even speak English. I infer that the gentleman has not been loii in the State oflouisiana, and does not know her population. The parishes below are the sam way, and if it is only published in English, they cannot and will not know the proceedings of this Convention. I move the amendment be laid on the table. MR. HILis-The gentleman who has just taken his seat has seen fit to intimate that I have not long been a resident of Louisiana. I am not aware that that has anything to do ,vith the question before the Convention; whether I have been here'for one year or twenty years, is not a matter in which this Convention is interested. I moved to strike from that resolution the words 11 and French," for I believe the English lano"uage DNTION FOR THE REVISION [Applause in the lobby.] PRESIDENT-No applause will be allowed in the lobby. MR. THOMAS. —-- As an American asnd a man who knows no other language than the English, I view it as a matter not only of courtesy, and following in the foot steps of our ancesters and of ancient usages, but I deem it a matter of right that the French population of the State of Louis iana, born upon the soil and loyal to the government of it, should know what the laws of the land are. For one, I shall vote that they may be promulgated in both languages.', MR. BELL-We have assembled here to debate upon the interests of the people at large-not one class alone —and it is right that we should, as representatives of the ooyal people of Louisiana, give to them what they have a right to claim. It is inconsistent with true liberty that one class should be represented and not another. We profess to represent all classes, and all distinctions in this State, and we have as sembled here to make their laws, and make them so they can read them. Many of our constituents are foreigners as well as native born, and they have a right to ask a report of our proceedings in their own language. MR. MON'TAMAT-I move the amendment be laid on the table. The question was put, and decided by the chair to be Lost. MR. MONTA,AT —I call for the yeas and English language, while those printed may be in French and English. MR. CAZABAT-For my part, sir, I coincide partly in these r emarks, but we must re member there is a large clas s of our popu lation- and na tive b orn population at that wh ich comp rises the wealthy part of the State, and is deeply interested in its welfare which is not unfrequently so unacquainted with the English language that they could know nothing in regard to our new constitution and the proceedings of this Convention unl ess they were written in French. The English is not the constitutional language of the St ate. I deny it, and cite article 129 of the constitution of 1852, w hich says the Constitution and laws of this State shall be promulgated in the English and French languages. Sir, I claim this not only as a matter of right to the Creole population, but as a matter of favor. We are here to frame a new constitution in accordance with the progressive spirit of the age. We have the law in our favor. The article states explicitly that the laws shall be promulgated in the English and French languages, and it is not yet repealed. We may repeal it in the constitution we are about to frame, but now it is the supreme law of the land, and therefore let our-proceedings be promulgated in French and English. MR. THOMAS —I think that there is some misapprehension as to the real meaning of these two articles. Ceriainly, sir, the law never required that the proceedings of a legislature or convention of this State should be in any other language than that in which the constitution is written; but in the promulgation of this law, it seems to me to be highly necessary and almost absolutely important. There are many parishes in this State where you cannot find ten men who are familiar with the English language; and how can you ask them to obey laws unless they know them? What expense would it be to have our fimdamental law promulgated in French as well as in English? Trifling. We have spent.money enough in this very body to have it done, which has been spent foolishly —if I may be permitted to express myself in that manner. The sum of $2500 will promulgate the constitution we adopt. nays. Twenty-five members acceding, the pre.sident directed the secretary to call the roll, with the following the result: AYES-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Cazabat, Cook J K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Dufresne. Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Fioley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Heard, Hire, Howes, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, M ontamat, Murphy MW., Newell, Norman, Pintado, Poynot, oPurcell J., Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck —57. NAYs —Messrs. Ariail, Barrett, Burke Campbell, Davies, Duane, Flood, Geier, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Montague, Mor t s I e s s 48 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. MR. GOLDMAN-My amendment to print in German has been carried. PRESIDENT-The question now is on the original motion to print in English and French. The question was put to vote and carried. MR. SULLIvAN-Mr. President, if I am in order, I should like to have the list of members of foreign birth PRESIDENT-That is not in order. It may come up at t~ proper time. MR. GOLDMAN —Mr. President, I should like to call the attention of the chair to the fact that my amendment to publish the journals and debates in German, as well as in English was carried. PRESIDENT —I do not understand what the gentleman is saying. [Mr. Goldman repeated in a little louder tone.] PREsIDENT —The gentleman is out of order. MR. SULLIVA.N-Mr. President, I should like to call now for the reading of the list of names of those members of foreign birth who have handed in their naturalization papers. Am I in order? PRE,SIDENT-NO. MR. PURSELL, of Jefferson —Mr. President, I desire to offer a resolution: Be it Resolved, That the following be adopted as an article in the constitution of the State of Louisiana: No profession, occupation, business or calling, requiring a license from any authority within this State, shall be exercised or carried on by any other than citizens of the United States, and those having made their legal declaration of becoming citizens. MR. THAO.s-I move that the resolution be referred to the Committee on General Provisions. PRESIDENT —It will take that course if no objections are made. [No objections were made.] Gentlemen, I consider these motions out of order. Committees have been appointed to take these matters into consideration and report. Until their report are made, I consider such resolutions out of order. I MR. MAURER-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That the sergeant-at-arms be authorized to procure for each member of this Convention one copy each of five such daily newspapers as he may select. ris, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Stauffer. Wilson-20. The resolution was accordingly laid on the table. MR. GOLDMN —I wish to amend by adding the German language. The motion was carried. MR. STOCKER —I desire to offer a substitute: Resolved, That the official printer be and he is hereby authorized to print, for the use of this Convention, the journals, in each of the following languages: English, German, French and Spanish. MR. MONTAMAT-I move to lay it on the table. MR. TERRY-Mr. President, I move to amend the resolution by adding the "Irish language." MR. E. MuRPHY-Mr. President, I move that it be printed in the English, German and French languages, and no other. [The president put the question on the amendment of Mr. Terry, and it was carried with hardly a dissenting voice.] MR. TuomAs-I call for the yeas and nays on the question to print the proceedings in the Irish language. [The call being seconded by a fifth of the members present, the secretary proceeded to call the roll.] MR. GOLDMAN-I desire to be excused, because I believe the motion was made for the purpose of casting ridicule on my motion to print the proceedings in the German language. It appeared that there were sixty-eight nays and eleven ayes, and the amendment was lost. [Voice-There is no quorum present.] PRESIDENT —The secretary will call the roll. [The roll was called and seventy-six members answered to their names.] MR. GASTINEL-I move to strike out all languages except the English and French, which are now in use in tlhe State. MR. PRESIDENT-That will come up at the proper time. The question now is on the adoption of the substitute. MR. MONTAMAT-I move to lay the substitute on the table. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-The question is now upon the original motion. 7 49 50 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION in order to give the various committees time to make up their reports. [A motion to lay the resolution on the table was carried.] MR. THOMAS-I move to strike out the word five and insert three. MR. FOLEY-I move to lay the amendment on the table. [The motion to table the amendment was lost.] [The amendment was carried and the reso lution as amended was adopted'.] MR. SUILrIYA-?\-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer: * Resolved, That the delegates of foreign birth who have not produced Their naturali zation papers, showing this Convention that they are citizens of the United States, agree ably to resolution passed on Wednesday last, shall produce their naturalization pa pers immediately, or their seats will de de clared vacant in this body. MR. FOLEY-I move to amend s o that it sh all read t hat thos e wh o have n ot their pa pers shall step up and swear that t hey ar e naturalized citizens of the United States. MR. BELL-Mr. President, I move as a substitute a he retrno e that the secretary now read the names of those who have handed in their papers. Several members are here who have just como t e fromnt. the country. I therefore move to lay all the amendments on the table. [The motion was put and carried.] [The original m oti on wa s put and lost.] MR. GOI,Dt AN — t I now call f or the reading of the minutes of to-day's proceedings. I wish to see about th at motion of mine. MR. SEYMOUR-Mr. Pre sident, I have a resolution to offer: Whereas, The resolution adopt ed o n the 9th inst., requiring the members of this Con vention to produce evidence of having taken the oath prescribed by the president, in his proclamation of December 8th, 1863, was intended, and shall be so construed as to apply only to such members, if any, who had not lap to that date (the 8th December, 1863,) taken the oath of allegiance to the United States under the previous military orders in the Department; Be it Resolved, That the resignation of the Hon. Christian Roselius be set aside, and that he be invited to resume his seat as a member of this Convention. MR. DAVIES —I move to lay the resolution on the table. [The resolution was carried.] MR. FOSDICK —Mr. President, I have a res olution to offer: :Resolved, That when this Convention ad' journs, it adjourns to meetat 3 o'clock P. x., MR. PRESIDENT-I move to adjourn to Monday, at 3 o'clock P. M. MR. CAZABAT —I move to amend by striking out "three" and inserting "five." MR. SULLIVAN-I move to lay the motion on the table. MR. HIFLS-I move to amend. PIsESIDEtNT-The motion i s MR. HBILLS-I had the floor before t he motion was made. [The chair put the question and it was carried.] MR. HILLs-I now move tha t this Convention when it adjourns, adjourn ti ll next Saturday at 4 o'clock P. M. It must be ap,parent to every one in this hall that this will not be too much time to allow the committees to meet and make up their reports; and it must also be apparent that nothing luther can be done till their reports are made up. [The question was put and lost.] MR. MONTAMAT-I move that each of the committees announced be authorized to appoint and employ a clerk to aid them in carrying out their duties. [The question was put and the motion carried.] MR. HEALY-Mr. President, I move that we-now adjourn until 3 o'clock P.'M. on Monday. MR. FOSDicK-I amend the motion by striking out "three P. m.," and inserting ' 12 M.77 MR. FOLEY —I believe these motions are out of order. It has already been resolved that when we adjourn we adjourn until four o'clock Saturday. [The question on the amendment of Mr. Fosdick's motion wa s put, a nd on a division of the House lost —ayes 24, nays 36.] [The motion of Mr. Healy was put and MR. TERRY-I move that when this Convention adjourns it adjourn until 5 o'clock P. M. on We d nes day next. [The question was put and on a division of the House carried-ayes 44, nays 20.] lost.] AND AMENDMENT OF TIIE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Resolved, That the rules and regulations be so amended as to require all ordinances and resolutions to lie over one day (unless referred. to so m e committee) before being acted upon by the Co nven tion. [The resolu ti o n was read.] [A moti on to lay on the table was lost, and the resolution was adopted.] MR. GOLDMAN-I move that we now adjourn. [The motion was lost.] MR. TapoMis —Before e we a djourn, I, as chairman of the Committee on Distribution of Powers, have a report to make. PRESIDENT-That is in order at this time. Mr. Thomas then read the following report: Your committee have come to the unanimous conclusion that the constitution of 1852 should not be changed in any respect in the title which treats upon the subject of the distribution of powers, and submit the same to the consideration of the Convention. MR. BROTT —Mr. President, I move that the report be referred back to the committee, and that they be instructed to incorporate that portion of the constitution of 1852 to which they refer in their report. [The motion was carried.] [A motion to adjourn was then made and carried, and the chair declared the Convention adjourned until 5 o'clock on Wednesday next.] MR. MO.NTA-,T-There was a resolution passed authorizing the president to appoint a committee. PRESIDENT-That will come in its order after you get through with your numerous resolutions. [A motion was made to suspend the rules.] MR. GOLDMAN —I move to lay that motion on the table. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-Are there any more resolutions? [None were offered.] The unfinished business, then, is in order. On the Committee on Federal Relations the president appoints Messrs. Thorpe, Brott, Montague, Howell and Henderson. MR. MONTA.MAT-There is another committee provided for in a resolution passed yesterday. I should like to know if it has been appointed. PRESIDENT-What resolution? MR. MO.N'TA-AT-The resolution fixing the per diem and providing for the appointment of a committee to fix the compensation of employes and officers of this Convention. PRESIDENT-Who was the mover of this resolution? MR. MONTAMAT-Mr. M. W. Murphy. PRESIDE~NT-I appoint on this committee Messrs.'l. W. Murphy, Terry, Mann, Kugler and Cazabat. SECRaETARY-Mr. Kugler is absent from the city. PRESIDENT —Then I appoint in his place Mr. Fosdick. MfR. CAzAB.XT —Mr.'President, I ask to be excused from serving on that committee. MR. HENI)ERRON-Mr. President, there is another committee to be appointed, to wait on the governor and inform him that the Convention is in session. PRES-'IDEXT-That committee has been appointed. MIR. AvSTf\ —Mr. President, Mr. Cazabat has asked to be excused fiom serving on the committee on which he has just been named. I move that hlie be excused. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-Mr. Cazabat is excused, and I will appoint Mr. Ennis. MB. STOCKER-e M r. President, I wish to call up my resolution of yesterday: WEDNESDA.Y, April 20, 1864. [The House was called to order at 5 P. M., and, after prayer by the Rev. Mr. Andrews, the following gentlemen answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bonzano, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Davies Dufresne, Duane, Durell, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gaidry, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Mass, Mann,'Aaurer, ~ illspaugh,: ontamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell. Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pinitado, Poynot, Purcell J., Putrsell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf; Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wilson-64. Th e secretary a nnounced that seventer one members were present, and shortly after the president informed the Convention that 51 52 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION seventy-nine were present, and accordingly a quorum. The minutes of the last session were then MR. GOLDMAN-NMay I call for the reading of the minutes again, to see if the voting was upon the original motion? MR. HIu,TS-I ds not believe a substitute can be amended after adoption. According to those minutes, we are to publish our proceedings in English, German, French and Spanish. I distinctly recollect that the substitute was lost, whereas it appears upon the minutes as having been adopted, which, according to my recollection, is not correct. SMR. STOCKER —My recollection is, that the substitute was adopted. MR. FOLEY —I move to reconsider the whole. MR. MONTAMAT-I would like to aik the gentleman whether he voted for tle reconsideration? PRESIDENT-That question does not come up at this time. The question is upon the amendment to the minutes, and if any gentleman wishes to amend, he can so move. MR. HILLS —I move to strike out "the substitute was adopted," and record it as read.] MR. GOIER-I move that the reading of names be dispensed with. [N o objection being made, name s were omitted.] MR. HILs-As I understand the s ecretary, he records that the substitute " be publi h ished in Eng lsh, French, Ge rman and Spanish," was carried. Ac cording to my recollection it was n ot, and I wish that p ortion of the minutes read again. MR. GOLDMAN-I rise to a ques tion of order, and would like to kn ow if, after an amendment has b een put and carried, (as wa s the c ase in regard to my amendment relating to publication in the German language,) the original motion can be then put and carried, as was here done, when publication was ordered in English and French only? [The secretary read the minutes again.] MR. FOSDicK-I have no recollection of making a motion attributed to me by the secretary, and ask for correction. MR. HiLs —IfI understand the minutes, as now read, the substitute and original resolution were adopted. I do not understand PRESIDENT-According to the minutes, the final vote was on adopting the original resolution, striking out the amendment, which seems to be carried, that the proceedings shall be printed in the English and French only. In that respect I think that they are correct. MR. GOLDMAN —I wish to call the attention of the chair to the fact that my amendment to, print in German was carried. ~ PRESIDENT-The final resolution was to adopt the original resolution, which was tantamount to a reconsideration. MR. FULLER-I cannot consider it so, for I find nothing of that kind in any work on parliamentary law or usage. MR. STOCKER-I see by the newspaper report that I am reported to have voted against the amendment of the gentleman from New Orleans, (Mr. Goldman,) and it the minutes say the same, I should like to have them corrected, as I voted for it. PRESIDENT-The substitute? MR. HiLs —The substitute of the gentleman from Orleans (Mr. Stocker). MR. AUSTIN-That was laid upon the table. PRESIDENT-We will settle that. Mr. Secretary, read the minutes again. [This was done, and upon the question being put, the amendment proposed was carried.] MR. STOCKER-. I would like to know as to how my vote upon the amendment of the gentleman from Orleans (Mr. Goldman) is recorded. SECRETARY-We have no yeas and nays recorded. MR. STOCKER-I waive the point. [The minutes, as amended, were hen adopted.] [No petitions or memorials were presented, and resolutions were accordingly offered.] MR. HOWELL —I offer the following, to lie over until to-morrow: Resolved, That hereafter this Convention shall meet at 11 o'clock A. M. and adjourn at 3 o'clock P. M., daily, (Sundays excepted,) and the order of the day shall be promptly taken up at the hour of 12 M. each day. MR. SMITH-I have a resolution to present: 0 lost. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. mit the following, which I wish handed to the president and then read. MR. SUuLIVAN-I think the gentleman is out of order. MR. SULLIVAN-When the United States forces took possession of Baton Rouge, they captured the grand statue of Washington and sent it as a trophy to New York City. Now that the State has come back and shown its allegiance to the United States, I hope that the statue will be returned and offer the following in regard to it. [Applause.] Resolved, That a committee consisting of five members be appo)inted by the president'of this Convention for the purpose of corresponding with and requesting the authorities in Washington City for the return, to the State of Louisiana, of Powers's grand statue of Washington, taken from the Capitol building in Baton Rouge by the United States forces on the occupation of that place by the Federal army, and sent by them as a trophy to adorn the Central Park, in New York City, where it is now placed. MR. HOWELL-I rise to correct in this resolution a statement of fact. The gentle man says the statue is in New York City. I think he is in error; for when I was in Washington last summer I saw it in the Patent Office, and was informed by the superintendent that as soon as the troubles in Louisiana were at an end, it would be returned to the State. I wish the gentleman would state this fact. MR. MANN-I rose to state the same fact, and now will corroborate it. MR. WILSON-I would ask for information. Is it certain that Louisiana was ever out of the Union, as the gentleman asserts? I have understood that never was the case. [On a viva voce vote upon this resolution, the president was unable to decide, and thereupon a rising vote was taken, whereby the resolution was carried-yeas 49, nays 23.] MR. WENCK-I submit the following: I move f or the reconsideration of the vote adoptin g the resolution requiring the journal and debates of this Convention to be published in the English and French languages, and furnishing each member' with three covpies thereof. MR. MONTAMAT-I move to lay on the table. MR. MONTAMIAT —]id the gentleman vote in favor of the resolution at the last sitting? Resolved, That the Committee on General Provisions be instructed to embody in their report an article or articles, making it obligatory on the first Legislature to convene under the constitution to compel the several parishes, corporations, as well as private citizens throughout the State, that have issued sight drafts, notes or shinplasters, payable in Confederate money, or otherwise, to provide for the redemption of the same in current funds. MR. MO.NTA-_MAT-I move this be referred. PRESIDE.N,T —Out of order. MR. STOCKER-I wish to call the last gentleman's attention to the rule adopted at the'last meeting, requiring all resolutions to lie over unless referred to a special committee; therefore I conceive the gentleman to be in order. 'MR. THOMAS-I wish to call the attention of the Conve ntion to rule XXXII according to whi ch every member must m ake a brief, verbal statement of the matter he presents. PRESIDENT-That does not apply to resolutions. ~ MR. MENDIVERRI-I offer the following: Resolved, That the State auditor furnish this. Convention, as soon as practicable, with a statement showing the receipts apd expenditures of the State treasury under the administration of General G. F. Shepley, late military governor of the State, as far as the books and records in his possession may show, and expressing each item of receipt and expenditure in detail; also, if any balance was received from the late treasurer; and if so, the amount and the kind and description of funds. MIR. WILSON-I move to lay on the table. [The motion was lost.] MR. STOCKER-I wish to call attention again to section XXXII of our rules and regulations. [The resolution was adopted.] MR. HILIS-I beg leave to submit this resolution; which I wish to lie over: Resolved, That the secretary be directed to obliterate from the records of this Convention the resolution inviting A. A. Atocha and the judicial officers of this parish to occupy a seat within the bar of this Convention. [A motion to lay on th te table was decided to be out of order.] MR. THORPE-In behalf of the gentlemen upon the Enrollment Committee, I sub 53 v 54 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION the substitute offered by the gentleman from Orleans, (Mr. Stocker,) had the Ger man race been as largely represented in Louisiana as the French. But that is not the case, and moreover they can almost all speak English, and besides they have never located in whole parishes as have the French. There are many, many, of the most wealthy parishes of this State, who will pay very largely into the treasury for the support of the government, where scarcely any of the people can speak or read the English language. I say, Mr. President, that since this is the case, and since it is not proposed to enter and pub lish official minutes in the Wench language, that we ought in justice to this large class of people in our State to publish our proceedings in their native tongue for their niformation. MR. HENDERSON —This question is one of some little importance. The gentleman has stated that a large part of this population are French, but he did not state the fact that the constitution of 1812 nowhere provides for the publication of the proceedings in the French language. This resolution, in the year 1864, seems rather strange, When in the two constitutions of 1845 and 1852 we find nothing of the kind. In the day of Claiborne and Livingston, was it not required that the official proceedings should be published in the language of the American constitution? I ask gentlemen to answer one question, unbiased by prejudice —for I am not any more prejudiced against the Creole population than any other-why, in 1812, when there were only a few Americans upon this soil, the French themselves declared that the language of the Constitution should be Ameri,can, and now the Americans wish to make French the language as well as English. I say it is a perfect humbug, brought about by the politicians. John Slidell was the great author of i-t. I am not prejudiced against this people any more than against the Italians, Portuguese or Spanish; but at the same time I feel that we are an American people, and whatever race they may be, they should, upon American soil,- learn to speak our langnage. MR. WENCK —Yes, sir. MR. HOWELL-I call for the yeas and nays upon the question of l aying on the table. [The call was sustained and the secre tary proceeded to call the roll, with the following result:] YEAS —Messrs. Abell, Ariail. Austin, Balch, Bailey, Baum, Bea uvai s, Bell, Bofill, Brott, Buckl ey, Bur ke, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, F o sdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Gaidry, Harnan, Hart, H ire, H owes, Knobloch, Maurer, Mendiverri, Monrtamat, Murphy E., N ewell, Normand, O'Conner, Pintado, Purcell J., Seymour, Shaw, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas-43. NAYs —Messrs. Barrett, Bonzano, Campbell, Cook J. K., Davies, Duane Fish. Flood, Foley, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Healy, Heard, Hender son, Hills, Ho w e ll, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Millspauy h, Monta gue, Mor ris, Murphy M. W. O, O ng, P ayne J., Poynot, Pursell S., S chro eder, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Wenck, Wilson-39. [The resolution was lost.] MR. THOMAs-The question is now, I presume, open for discussion. If I understand the object of this reconsideration, i t is to strike ftrom the resoluti on that portion which requires our proceedings to be published in the French language. F or one, Mr. President, I am entirely of opinion that. t he matter stands rightly upo n the record n ow. Almost all of the territory of Louisiana, now under the c ontrol and loyal to the government of the Uni ted States, outsi de of New Orleans, is occ up ied by persons speaking the French langu age. They have ever been loyal; it is they who will pay the taxes for the support of this Convention, for the enactment of the laws we are about to frame, and yet a large portion of this population understand no other language than the French. Gentlemen who advocate so strongly this reconsideration, forget, Mr. President, that when the American race, the English race, the Anglo-Saxon race came upon the soil of Louisiana, they found here this very people, whom they are now blaming because they do not understand the English tongue. They were here, but because they have not yet?earned our customs and government, shall we ostracise them from the knowledge of the laws? I | tor one would cheerfully have advocated| 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. man in my desire for one language, and were it a question before the Legislature, I should oppose it; but the fact is nevertheless patent that we have met for the purpose of framing a constitution for the glory and honer of Louisiana. It is to be for the people of the State, more than one-half of the constituency of which are French. As for the question before this Convention, whether our proceedings should be published in French, I think that it should be done both in French and German. I would, under no circumstances, support a resolution calculated to insult the intelligence of the people, but I think it will be unfair not to print our proceedings in French, and that it would be money well laid out to do so in German. The French population have ever been loyal, not entered into this rebellion, but lived quietly under the United States government. I say that this constitution we are now engaged in making should be brought before the people, and that they will labor under a great disadvantage if it is published in a language they do not understand. MR. HOWELL —I shall vote for a reconsideration of this question on two general grounds: the first economy; secondly, that the conditions of the resolution tend to the perpetuation of a distinction which it should be the desire of all good citizens to break; down —a local division-a sectional prejudice. Lawyers and judge s tell us that every man is bound to know the laws, a nd tha t ignora nce of it is no plea. Therefore, it makes no difference whether that man mn derstands the language in which the law is written. I have b ee n in this country twelve or fit teen years and do not un derstand French, because I am more among Americans. But is that any reason why a man, born upon the soil, can g o int o a court of justice and have judgment interpreted to him because he does not understand English? or why one- half of a l egal procee ding should be in English a nd the other in French? Suppose I was brought under French jurisdic tion, w ould I not be compelled to learn the French lan guag e and c ustoms? Th is people have lived here for a series of years, not awhen there have been but few Americans, but through two generations of them, and is it right for th is third Creole generation to come here and say they do not understand th e American language? Whe n yo u go in to a court of justice you find that there is a French and an American side, and while the constitution'says that if there is a cogflict the American must decide, it practically depends upon the nationality of the judge. These are my reasons for taking this position. If Frenchmen wish to have our proceedings published, they can do as do the G~ermans - start national papers; and so with the Spanish and Portuguese, and let them pay for it themselves. It is right that all these should be taxed to support themselves and that people'who constitute the majority of the country's population. This population might, on the same principle,. go to England and require the proceedings in Parliament to be published in French, and so if they were in Russia, Spain, and among the Choctaws, if you like. I say this is a miere matter of usage, not fit for the contemplation of a philosophic mind, and therefore I hope that a reconsideration may be moved, that our proceedings shall be published in one language, the American language, and nothing else. MR. THoRPE —I agree with the last gentle Oin the point of economy, I would call attention to the purport of the resolution we are seeking to reconsider. That resolution, sir, provides that the journal and debates of this Convention shall be printed in the English and French languages, three copies of which shall be furnished to every member of this Convention in the -language which he may select. The object, it is said, of this resolution is to communicate information to the people of this State, of all the proceedings of this Con vention. Will the gentleman inform me, sir, how that is to be effected by this resolution? Are we to send copies of the journal and debates throughout the whole State in order that the people may read them? 55 56 - DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tears, and poverty, and sufferings of the widows and orphans to meet me the re and say,' you increased my blurden&." [Hear, hear.] Now, sir, upon the other consideration: it is s im ply panderi ng to a distinction unbecoming the people of an y State. [Hear, hear.] I do not believe, Mr. President. that there are any great number of' the people of Louisiana incapable of reading the English language who can read French. I contend that whosoever can do the one can do the other, while those who cannot do either will not be benefited by the publication of our proceedings in French. This tends to prevent the people educating their children in the English language; and the French, we must admit, have but a local habitation, within blut a small territory of this country. English is the national language, and why, then, shall we foster the continuance of a language-in a local sense —simply for the benefit of a people who cannot speak the national tongue? I have a higher respect for the descendants of the original French of this State than to believe they desire it, as I have a higher regard for the intelligence and patriotism of the Creoles of this State and city than to believe they do. I do not believe, Mr. President, it is desired that the taxes of this State shall be increased doubly, simply to cater to a literary taste, for it is nothing but that. Gentlemen do not believe in ostracism. I have yet to learn, sir,'that such will be the fact. I have yet to learn, Mr. President, that the publication of the laws of Louisiana in the French language has been any benefit to any class of people, or preserved them fr(mi ostracism. The native-born population of Louisiana claim not that she shall be distinct from every other State in this nation. I thank the Convention for their attention. MRt. ABELL —Mr. President, I rise for the purpose of making one or two observations, and I feel somewhat embarrassed when I am compelled to differ with gentlemen of the ability and judgment of those who have already expressed their opinion on this If we undertake that, sir, is it possible in the conception of the mind of any gentleman here, that the people of the State will take those volumes and read them through in order to get the cream of what we are doing here?' That is imposing upon the people a task they will never perform. Besides that, sir, it is futile, it is impracticable that the journals and debates stall be circulated throughout the State. That is something which has never been done in the history of civilization, nor in any of the States of this Union. We must look to the object of the resolutions and motions we adopt here. Gentlemen should know that the proceedings here are known to the people of the State and throughout the country, only through the daily publications. They glance over the synopsis of our proceedings, and when they have done that, pass it from their attention. It is of very little consequence to the people of this or any other State, what I or any other gentleman may say in this room.. I am not so vain as to desire my speeches circulated in this manner, for I do not believe that the people care enough for them. I believe this is an enormous expense imposed upon the burdened people of this' State, which is unnecessary, and let me say to the gentlemen, that every dollar unnecessarily imposed upon the taxepaying people of the State, will recoil upon the members of this Convention. Let gentlemen remember the condition of the people; let them go through the city, through the country parishes, and see how many of the tax-paying population are barely able to maintain themselves, and even those we burden. [Hear, hear.] Let them remember that the burdens of the people are now almost as many as any people can bear, and this may prove the last feather. [Hear.] It is doubling the expenses of this Convention, which were already too great. We have even now dipped our hands so deep in the public treasury that we have well nigh reached its bottom. I believe that my resposibility goes beyond this Convention, beyond this great nation. It ascends to the Almighty throne, where I shall have to go and account for my work. I want not the 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE COONSTITtUTION OP LOUISIANA. question; but, Mr. President, I have not come here with the intention of conducting the business of this Convention in a picayunish manner. Let us show the peo ple that we appreciate ourselves, and that w e are working upon a liberal scale. I cannot see how the printing of t he journals and debates in French is going to double the expense of the Convention. It w ill certainly double the expense of publication. I do not know whether it will have much effect abroad, but I would like to see Louisiana, the first returning State, do the work on a grand scale. When I state to you that the gentleman who has just preceded me receives about thirteen dollars a day, and that my own book shows about double that, you might think it strange if we proposed to carry on the work in anything short of a manly, honorable way. Were I not, however, from a district which is largely French, I might coincide with the gentleman who has just expressed his views on this question; but my consti- tuents being nearly all French, I feel instructed to go for the publication in French. MR. MONTAIMAT —I call for the ayes and nays; I want the vote recorded on that question. [The question was put by the chair a nd declared lost. A division was called for and the vote stood —ayes 33, nays 40.] MR. MONTAMAT-There is no quorum voting; several members here did not vote. MR. HILLs-I call for the yeas and nays. [The call was sustained.] NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Baum, Beauvis, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Dufresne, Dupaty, Durell, Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Hire, Knobloch, Lobdell, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Pintado, Poynot, Seymour, Shaw, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas-44. YEAis-Messrs. Ariail, Barrett, Bonzano, Brott, Burke, Campbell, Cook J. K., Davies, Duane, Ennis, Flood, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Montague, Morris, Ong, Payne J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, St-tmpf. Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Wenck, Wilson —40. MR. GOLDMAN-Mr. President, I wish to 8 PRESIDENeT-I do not thin k t he cas e comes under the rule-ayes 40, nays 44. The reso lution is lost. MR. HOWELL-Mr. Presid ent, I have two resolutions which I wish to have read and * to be laid over till to-morrow., MR. GORLINSa-Mr. Pres ident, I have a resolution which I wish to offer. [Secretary read.:] Resolved, That the re gular hour for the meeting o f this Con ventio n, during the r emainder of its sittings, shall be 12 o'clock M., and.any member not ans wering to his name, when the roll is call ed, shall forfeit the sum of two dollars, to be deducted from his per diem, and any member who shall be absent from his seat an entire day, shall forfeit his per diem for each day he shall fail to attend, unless absent by permission of the Convention, or for sickness, either in his own person or family, the proof of w hich shall be a certifica te from a regular physician. Resolved, further. Tha t the secretary keep a record of the n ame s of all m embers not answering at roll-call, and the names of all members who shall be absent from their seats an entire day, and for each day so absent, unless they have leave of absence from the Convention, and to make a list of said members at the end of every week, a copy of which shall be furnished the Committee on Finance and a copy to the President of the Convention, who will strictly enforce the penalties as prescribed in the foregoing resolution. MR. WATERS-Mr. President, I move to lay the resolution on the table. MP. STOCKER —Mr. President, I do not 57 58 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION vention was called. Instead of amending and revising the Constitution we are discussing the money in the public treasury, the administration of Goveronor Shepley, and a variety of other questions which I consider are not necessary to promote the objectfor which we were called together. I therefore offer this resolution for the purpose of preventing discussions on matters not applicable to the duties of the Convention, and not properly coming before us: Whereas, This Convention assembled for the purpose only of revising and amending the Constitution of Louisiana, and for no other purpose, Be it Resolved, That no resolution on any other subject than that above stated, shall be received or entertained by this Convention. PRESIDENT-The resolution will lie over till to-morrow. MR. HARNAN-Mr. President I call for the re a ding of Judge Howell's resolutions. MR. WE xcK —Mr. President I have a resolution to offer. [The secretary read:] Resolved, That the resolution adopted allowing each member of this Convention te n dollars a da y be rep ealed. PRESIDENT —-Un der the rule it lies over. [The secretary read the res olutions o f Mr. Howell, viz:] * Resolved, That the resolution adopted on Friday, 15th April, 1864, in the following words, to-wit: " Be it Resol ved, That the sum of o ne h undred thousand dollars be an d the s ame is hereby appropriated out of the gen er al fun(l, fo r t he purpose of paying the members, o fficer s and employes of this Conven.tion, the mileage and per diem to which they are res pective ly en titled; the same to be paid by the treasurer of the State, on the warrant of the president of the Convention," be and the same is hereby repealed. Resolved,first, That the resolution adopted on Friday, 15th April, 1864, in the follow ing words, to-wit: ". Resolved, That the members of this Convention shall receive from the public treasury a compensation for their services, which shall be ten dollars per day during their attendance on, going to and returning from the sessions of this Con vention," be and the same is hereby res cinded. Resolved, second, That the compensation for the services of the members of this Con vention shall be the same as allowed to the members of the General Assembly by the constitution adopted in 1852. rise to debate this question, for I know it is not debatable, but I would like to have my resolution to amend the rules and regulations read, for the info rmation of th e Convention. I think that contains a provision applicable to such a case as this, and which w ill do away with so many motions. PRESIDENT Mr. Secretary, read the resollution. [The secretary read:] Resolved, T hat th e ru le s and regulations be so amended as to require all orders and resolutions to lie over one day, unless re - f erred to some comm itte e before being acted lpon by the Convention. PRESIDE,T —Under that rule the resolution must lie over. .MR. GAIDRY-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer, to lie over under the rule. [The secretary read:] Whereas, All the constitutions ever framed in this State have decreed that all judicial and legislative proceedings should take place in the French and English language; And whereas, Several members of this Convention, who are true republicans and loyal to the core, but are not very familiar with the English language, have been delegated to this Convention by constituents who are also unacquainted with the said language-which right to choose delegates as they please said constituents possessed and that to deny such supreme right would be tantamount to disfranchise said people Resolved, That all resolutions and motions to be presented in this Convention be translated into the French language, so that the members from the several parishes, who are not familiar with the English language, may be fully aware of what they are voting upon. MR. SULLIVAX —Mr. President, I move to lay the resolution on the table. PRESIDENT-Under the rules, it must lie over till to-morrow. 1MR. MO.NTXAMAT —Mr. President, I wish to give notice that I shall, at the next sitting of the Convention, move an amendment to the fifty-second section of the rules and reg,iilations, relative to the ayes and noes. MR. HOWELL-Mr. President, I call for the reading of my resolutions. MR. C.&ZX.BAT-I see that a great deal of the time of this Convention has been wasted in discussing- matters not immediately connected with the object for which the Con1 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. to prepare a preamble to the constitution which is to be framed by the Convention, beg leave to. make the following report: They have thought it best to adopt the preamble to the constitutions of eighteen hundred and forty-five and fifty-two-which read as follows: "We, the people of the State of Louisiana, do ordain and establish this constitution," and recommend its adoption. MR. GOLDE-N-I second these resolutions. MR. MONTAMAT-Mr. President, this has been introduced and voted down a lready. PRESIDENT-Under the rule it lies over till to-morrow. MR. AuSTIN-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order in regard to that last resolution. PRESIDENT —The question will come up to-morrow, it is not subject to debate now. MR. Ausia-,-I am aware that the question will come up to-morrow, but I ask for information. PRESIDENT --— Make your objection to-mor Respectfully submitted, H. J. HEARD, Chairman. MR. HARNAN-I move that the report lie over till to-morrow. [This motion not -being seconded, a motion to adopt was made and carried.] PRESIDENT —-Committee on Distribution of Powers. MR. THOMAs —As chairman of that committee I submit the following report: row. MR. GOLDMAN —Mr. Presidentj I offer the following resolution: Resolved, That the amendment to publish an official report in the German language is hereby embodied in the original motion to publish in the English and French languages. PRESIDE.NT —The resolution is out of order. MR. CAZAB.AT —-Mr. President, the resolution of Mr. Sullivan respecting Powers's statue of Washington was adopted against the rule. I ask now that the motion adopting it be reconsidered, in order that the resolution may lie over till to-morrow. MR. SULLIVA.N -— I have no objection to having the resolution lie over. [The secretary read. The question, upon its acceptance, was put to the Convention and carried.] PRESIDE~NT —-I appoint on Statue' Committee Mr. Mendiverri. MR. MURPHY —-Mr. President, I have report to make. PRSI)ES.T —-The next business in order is the reports of standing committees. They will be called in their order. Committee on Emancipation. MR. BO-ZANO —-- Mr. President, as chairman of the committee I would state that the committee has made progress, but is not ready to report. I'RESI)ENT —-Committee on Preamble. MR. HEARDe —Mr. President, as chairman of that committee I beg leave to submit the following report: To the honorable the president and members of the Constitutional Convention: The committee appointed by the president REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON DISTRIBUTION OF POWERS. Your Committee on Distribution of Powers respectfully submit the following report: That Articles Nos. 1 and 2 of the constitution of 1852 ought not, in any manner, to be altered or changed, which articles read as follows: Art. 1. The powers of the government of the State of Louisiana shall be divided into three distinct departments, and each of them be confided to a separate body of magistracy, to-wit: Those which are legislative to one, those which are executive to another, and those which are judicial to another. Art. 2. No one of these departments, nor any person holding office in one of them, shall exercise power properly belonging to either of the others, except in the instances hereinafter expressly directed or permitted. All of which is respectfully submitted, JOHN W. THOMAS, Chiairman. [The report was adopted.] PRESIDENT-CCommittee on Legislation. MR. FOSDICK —I have to report that we have made some progress, but owing to the absence of several members in the country, we shall not be able to report for several days. PRESIDENT-Committee on Executive Department. MR. FIsH —We have had one or two meetings, but are not yet ready to report. PRESIDENT-Committee on the Judiciary. MIo. HowELL —-The committee reports pro gress.I PREsIDENT-Committee on Impeachment. ,ilt. WIIsoN —-Mr. President, your committee respectfully report that the provisions 59 60 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION that four members of our committee are absent —at least, they have taken no part in our action. Seven of us have, however, held three meetings, and have made progress in the work, and will probably be ready to report very soon. PRESIDENT-Committee on Mode of Revising the Constitution. MR. CUTLER —As chairman, I can only report progress. It may be necessary for most of the other committees to report before our report is made. PRESIDENT-Committee on Schedule. MR. GRUNEBERG-Mr. President; the committee is not ready to report. PRESIDENT-Committee on Ordinance. MR. SHAw —This being the provision that puts the constitution in operation, we shall not be able to report until most of the other committees have reported, until we knowr what we have to put in operation. PRESInENT-Committee on Enrollment. MR. THORPE-All enrolled bills are in the hands of the president. PRESIDENT-GCommittee on Finance. MR. BROTT-The committee have no finances on hand and have not had occasion to draw any warrants. PRESI)ENT-Committee on Expenses. MR. PURSELL, of Jefferson-No report. PRESTDF,XT-Committee on Printing. MR. PURCELL, of Orleans-No report. PRESIDENT-Committee on Federal Rela of the constitution of 1852 upon this subject, which can easily be found, are fully up to the spirit of the age, and ought not in any manner to be changed. The provisions are as follows, [read from the Revised Statutes:] The power of impeachment shall be vested in the House of Representatives. Impeachment of the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state, state treasurer, and of the judges of the inferior courts, justices of the peace excepted, shall be held by the Senate; the chief justice of the Supreme Court, or the senior judge thereof, shall preside during the trial of such impeachment. Impeachments of the judges of the Supreme Court shall be tried by the Senate. When sitting as a court of impeachment the Senators shall be upon oath or affirmation, and no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the senators present. Judgment in cases of impeachment shall extend only to the removal from office and disqualification from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the State; but the convicted parties shall, nevertheless, be subject to indictment, trial and punishment according to law. All officers against whorfi articles of impeachment be preferred, shall be suspended from the exercise of their functions during the pendancy of such impeachment; the appointing power may make a provisional appointment to replace any suspended officer until the decison of the impeachment. The Legislature shall provide by law for the trial, punishment, and removal from office of all other officers of the State by indictment or otherwise. MR. HILLs —Mr. President, I move that the report be referred back to the committee, and that they be instructed to incorporate in their report such provisions of the constitution of 1852 as they recommend for adoption. [The question on referri ng back was put and carried.] PREsIDENT-Committee on General Provi tions. MR.. THORPE-Mr.' President, the committee fias met several times, but is not prepared to report. MR. WILSON-i move that we adjourn till 5 o'clock P. M., on Monday next, in order to give the committees time to report. MR. FOSDICK-Mr. President, I amend to 12 o'clock. MR. MONTAMAT-I amend to 12 o'clock on Saturday. IMR. TERRY-Mr. President, I amend to to-morrow at 12 o'clock. [The president put the question on the adjournment till Saturday, and declared it carried.] MIR. HAuP.NA-I move to adjourn till tomorrow at 12 o'clock. [The question was put and lost.] sions. MR. MAN.,N-As chairman, I simply report progress. The committee is not yet ready to report. PRESIDENT-Internal Improvements. MR. GoRLNSKI-I beg leave to report that the committee is not yet prepared to report. PRESIDENT-Public Education. MR. HmILs-Mr. President, I will report I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. to be excused from attendance to-day, as I am suffering severely from toothache. [The question was put to the Convention, and Mr. Thomas was excused.] MR. GOLDMAN-Mr. President, is my ap peal now in order? PRESIDENT-I think so. MR. GOLD.M~' —-If it is in order, I would move that the decision of the chair be sus tained. MR. HEALY —-Mr. President, I would like to have every gentleman addressing the chair speak loud enough so that all the members can hear him. In this part of the house we can not hear half the motions tha t are made. MR. HEARD —Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer. PRESIDENT —- Mr- S ecretary, read the mo tion. [The secretary read:] I move that a leave of abs ence b e granted to Mr. Schnurr, on account of illnes s in his family. PRESIDENT —-If there are no objections, it will be granted. [No objections were made.] PREsIDtaT —Resolutions are now in order. MR. SHAW — Mr. President, I would ask, for informat ion, whether new resolutions are in order now, or whether the resolut ions offer ed yesterday are to be called up? PRESIDE-NT —New resolutions are in order. MR. GORr LINSK —-Mr. President, I have a resoluti o n to offer, as follows: Whereas, On the e vacuation of Bat on R ouge, after the ever-memorable battle of the 5th day of August, 1862, Colonel Payne, of the Fourth Wisconsin Volunteers, then commanding the po st of B at on Rouge, crowned his heroic deeds of that day by an act w hich has se ctre d to the us e of this Convention and the State a valuable public library, together with Thorpe's great painting of Gen. Zachary Taylor, and other paintings, which now adorn the hall of this Convention, and also saved Hiram Powers's statue of Washington, which is said now to be in the Patent Office at the national capital-all of which would have been stolen or destroyed by the fire,. which demolished the State House. had not Colonel Payne caused the same to be removed to this city, where, by order of General Butler, they were protected as the property of the State; therefore, be it Resolved, That the thanks of this Conyen MR. HARPN —I move to adjourn till tomorrow at 10 o'clock A. M. MR. TERRY-I move to amend by substituting 12 M., for 10 o'clock A. M. [The amendment was carried, and the motion as amended adopted, when the president declared the Convention adjourned.] THURSDAY, April 21, 1864. (At 12 o'clock the president called the Convention to order, and Rev. T. W. Gilbert opened the proceedings with prayer.] MR. HEARD-Mr. President, I rise to a question of privilege, to ask a leave of absence for Mr. Schnurr, on account of sickness in his family. PRESIDIENT-That can come up after the roll is called. Mr. Secretary, call the roll. [The roll was called, and the following members answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Balch, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Crozat, Davies, Duane, Dufresne Durell, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspauogh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck-77. The s ecretary read the minutes of th e' previous day's proceedings.] Ad MR. HEARD-Mr. President, I wish to resume my motion to grant a leave of absence to Mr. Schnurr, on account of sickness in his family. MR. GOLD-MAN-Mr. President, I wish to know before the minutes are adopted-I now ask the permission of the chair to appeal from its decision deciding my motion out of order yesterday. I did not understand the decision yesterday, or I should have appealed from it at the time. PRESIDENT-The gentleman is out of order. The question is upon the adoption of the minutes. [The minutes were then adopted.] MR. THoMAs-Mr. President, I would ask 61 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION understandingly upon it; and in order to effect this object, I merely move to have the resolution printed and laid on tlfe desks of the members in the morning, so that all may know what it is. PRESIDENT —YOU will have it printed in the morning journals at any rate. The question is upon printing. Those in favor of it will rise and be counted by the secretary. SECRETARY —-Ayes. 34. PRESIDENT-Contrary will rise. SECRETARY -— Nays, 36. PRESIDENT-The motion is lost. MR. HILI.S —-Mr. President, I offer the following resolution, to lie over under he rules: Resolved, That rule XXXIV be so amended as to require members to read the same or explain them from their seats. MR. STOCKER —Mr. President, I move a suspension of the rules in order that that resolution may be acted upon at onc e. MR. STSLUFFER —-Mr. President, I ask for the reading of the reso lution. The secretary read the resolution. MR. STAUFFER —I th ink that rule LII is a lmost e ntirely wor d for wo rd like the r esolution t he gentlema n offe rs. MR. HiLs —Mr. President, I think that the chair has decided that that rule does not apply to resolutions. PRESIDENT-It does not cover resolutions The question is upon a suspension of the rules. [Upon taking the vote the chair announced the motion carried. A division was called for-tyes 54, nays 5.] MR. STOCKER —I move the adoption of the resolution, Mr. President. [The question was put and carried unanimously.] MR. HENDERSON —Mr. President, I believe that the rules have been suspended, and any party who has the floor can call up a motion at any time, and that a party who has the floor can make a motion. PRESIDENT —The rule is suspended for the purpose of acting upon that resolution. MR. STOCKER —That was my motion. PRESIDENT-Reports of standing committees are now in order. They will be called in their order. Committee on Emancipation. tion and of the people of Louisiana, are due and are hereby tendered to Major General B. F. Butler and Colonel Payne. for saving the above-mentioned valuable State property. Resolved further, That the Governor be, and is hereby requested, to correspond with the authorities at Washington, and make suitable arrangements for the return and reception of the above-mentioned statue of Washington and its fuiture disposition in this- State. MR. CAMPBELL-Mr. President, I have a resolution which I wish to offer, to lie over till to-morrow: Whereas, The United States bounty paid to soldiers enlisting in the army cannot be paid to men enlisting in the First and Second Regiments of New Orleans Volunteers, now being raised under Colonels Killborn and Brown, because of their being organized for a specific purpose, that of the city defence alone, and wishing to aid in filling the same, Resolved, That the sum of dollars be, and the same is hereby appropriated by the State, to pay a bounty to each man who may hereafter enlist in the First and Second Regiments of New Orleans volunteers, and that the governor is hereby authorized to carry the same into effect according to his best judgment. MR. SEYMOUR —Mr. President, I move to lay the resolution on the table. MR. STOCKER-Mr. President, is it proper to make a motion that that proposition be printed and laid upon the desk of each member to-morrow morning? [The president put the question, and declared it lost.] MR. SULLIVAN-Mr. President, I would like to hear the motion explained. Many of us could not hear it. [A division was called for.] PRESIDENT-Those in favo r of the motion will rise and be counted by the secretary. [The secretary counted twenty-seven ayes.] MR. HEiLY-I would like to have the resolution read, Mr. President; we could not hear it here. PRESIDE.NT-Reatd the resolution, Mr. Secretary. [The secretary read the resolution.] MR. STOCKER-3Mr. President. my object in making the motion is this: I desire to know and for the members to know what the resolution is, in order that we may act 62 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. office of all other officers of the State by indictment or otherwise. JOS. H. WILSON, Chairman. A. J. BAILEY, CHARLES SMITH, L. GASTINEL, ROBT. MORRIS. MR. FOLEY-I move that 200 copies be printed for the use of the Convention. PRESIDENT —Committee on General Provisions. MR. MANN —Not yet ready to report, Mr. President. * PRESIDENT —Committee on Internal Improve ment. MR. GORLTNSKI-Not yet ready to report. PRESIDENT-Committee on Public Educa MR. Bo,zANo-The committee can only report progress. PRESIDENT-Judiciary Committee. MR. HOWEL-The committee reports progress. PRESIDENT —Committee on Impeachment. MR. WiLpsON —The ommittee is prepared to report. 4 [The secretary commenced to read the re port.] MR. HILLS —Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. I believe that rule XXXII requires the reading of that report by the member who presents it, or a statement of its contents. MR. HENDERSON —I would like to have this question decided. I think it does not apply to the report of a committee. PRESIDENT-I think you are right-the gentleman will do as he pleases. [Mr. Wilson read:] To the president and members of the Conven tion to "Revise and Amend the Constitution of Louisiana." Your committee respectfully submit the following report: The power of impeachment shall be vested in the House of Representatives. Impeachments of the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state, State treasurer, and the judges of the inferior courts, justices of the peace excepted, shall be held by the Senate; the chief justice of the Supreme Court, or the senior judge thereof, shall preside during the trial of such impeachment. Impeachments of the judges of the Supreme Court shall be tried by the Senate. When sitting as a Court of Impeachment the senators shall be upon oath or affirmation, and no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the senators present. Judgments in cases of impeachment shall extend only to removal from office and disqualification from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the State; but the convicted parties shall, nevertheless, be subject to indictment, trial and punishment, according to law. All officers against whom articles of impeachment may be preferred, shall be suspended from the exercise of their functions during the pendancy of such impeachment; the appointing power may make a provisional appointment to replace any suspended officer until the decision of the impeachment. The Legislature shall provide by law for the trial, punishment and removal from tion. MR. HILLS-The committee have held three meetings, and will probably be ready to report to-morrow. PRESIDENT-Enrollment. No report. PRESIDENT-F inanc es. MR. BROTT —NO report. PRESIDENT-Expenses. MR. PusSEhLL, of Jeffer son —No re port. PRESIDENT-Printing. MR. PURCELL, of Orleans-No report. PRESIDENT-F ederal R elations. MR. THORPE-The committee will probably be ready to make the ir repor t to-mor - row. PRESIDENT —The nex t business in o rder will be the calling up of the resolution s offered yesterday. MR. GASTINEL-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. There ar e severa l s pecial committees to report yet. MR. M. W. MURPHY-Mr. President, I have a report of a special committee, which I wish to offer. PRESIDENT-Reports of special committees are next in order. MR. GASTINEL-Mr. President, as chairman of t he committee appointed to wait upon the governor, and inform him that the Convention was in session, and ready to receive any communication he might have to make, I beg leave to submit the following report: On behalf of the committee appointed to wait upon his excellency the governor, and inform him that the Convention was organ I 63 64 DEBATES IN THE CO1VENTI()N FOR TH1E REVISION ized, and to inquire whether he had any corn- president omitted in that report. In 1852 munication to make to this body, I beg leave the president received eight dollars per day, to report: That the committee waited upon his ex- and the members but four. I think it is cellency, who, in substance, replied that he an oversight on the part of the committee did not consider that it would be becoming, to treat the president in such a manner, and nor within his province, to transmit a mes- that the matter needs further attention from sage or make suggestions or recommendations to the Convention, but that he would the committee. stand ready at any time to afford all facili- MR. FOSDICK-Mr. President, before that ties and information that may be required question is put, as a member of that comby this body from the executive depart- mittee, I would state that the question was ment. \ ~~~~~~~mittee, I would state that the question was ment. I The committee having done their duty, raised in the committee room. We referred beg leave to be discharged. to the proceedings of the Convention of GASTINEL, Ciairman. 1852, and found no mention made of the MR. FOLEY-Mr. President, I move that compensation of the president. In that the report be accepted and the committee Convention there was one reporter, who discharged. was paid $10 per day, the secretary was MR. STAUFFER-Mlr. President, I rise to a paid $14 per day, an assistant received $10, point of order. the sergeant-at-arms $8, and the other em PRESIDENT-Mr. Secretary, read the other ployes the rates elsewhere reported. report. PRESIDENT-Gentlemen, the question is [The secretary read:] I on the motion to recommit. tir. President-Your committee on fixing [The motion was carried.] the compensation of officers and employds MR. STAUFFER —Mr. President, I rise to a of the Convention, make the following point of order. At an early day of the sesJohn E. Ne is, secretary.....t: sion of this Convention, a committee was Thomas H. NeelisMurphy, assisecre tary nt$14 per day appointed to investigate and report the cirThomas H. Murphy, assistant secretary.................... 10 cumstances qf an assault upon some of the S. G. Hamilton, assistant secretary 10.. members of this Convention; that commit,Michael DeCoursey, sergeant-ati- Michael DeCoursey, sergeant-a- 1tee. has failed to report progress. I now arms. 10 a rs...................... m v h tte e euseorpr. 1 Two assistant'sergeants-at-arms, Two assistant sergeants-at-arms,: move that they be requested to report. e a c h......................... 5 MR. WILSON-That committee will be able Two messengers, ea h...... 5 to report progress in a few days. It is a One postmastper *......... 5 *much more serious matter than we at first One doorkeeper......... 5.. One reporter and three assistants, thought. It requires a great deal of inves each......................... 6... tigation; some of the witnesses are at the One warrant clerk.............. 6... barracks. Enrolling clerks, each........... 6 In relation to the compensation of the PRESIDET-The next business in order printer of the Convention, your committee will be the resolutions offered yesterday. ask for further time to report. Gentlemen will call them up from their The mileage of all members from the seats country parishes twenty cents per mile, go- set mng and coming. ing and coming. MR. HOWELL-Mr. President, I call for All compensation to officers and employcs the resolution in regard to fixing the hours shall commence from the day of their elec- foe meeting. I believe it is the first in tion or appointment. order order. (Signed) M. W. MURPHY, Chairman. PRESIDENT —Mr. Secretary read the teso GEO. A. FOSDICK, J. RANDALL TERRY, lution. W. D. MANN. [The secretary read it.] MR. HEARD-I move to recommit that MR. STAUFFER-Mr. President, I move to report to the committee. I see several amend so that it will read that hereafter omissions in it. I have had the honor of this Convention shall meet at ten o'clock, representing constituencies in several deli- and to strike out the words "adjourn at berative bodies, and I never before saw the three o'clock?. M.Y' AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 65 MR. WiisoN-I move. as a substitute that it meet permanently at five o'clock P. M. MR. GOLD-,L4-NMr. President, I move to lay that motion on the table. [The motion was carried.] MR. STIUFFER —— I will withdraw my amendment, except as to the words " adjourn at three o'clock." MR. SULLIVAN- I move to substitute twelve o'clock. PRESIDEN'T —The question is upon the amendment to twelve o'clock. [The question was carried, and the President declared the amendment adopted.] PRESIDE.NT-The motion, as ad opted, is to meet at twelve o'clock, and take up the order of the day at twelve o'clock. MR. BROTT-Mr. President, I move to amend by substituting "take up the order of the day at one o'clock." MR. HOWELL —Mr. President, I move to amend by adding the words,'i and adjourn regularly at four o'clock." MR. BELL-I move to la4he amendment on the table. [The motion was carried.] MR. CAZABAT-Mr. President, I call for the resolution I offered yesterday. The character of that resolution is such that if it is adopted by the Convention much of this discussion will be avoided, and, it is to be hoped, more business done. Secretary reads: Whereas, This Convention is assembled for the purpose only of revising and amending the constitution of Louistana, and for no other purpose; Be it Resolved, That no resolution on any other subject but that above stated, shall be received or entertained by this Convention. MR. BELL-I move to lay the resolution on the table. [The motion w as carried.] MR. SULLIVAx\Mr. President, I call up my resolution, offered yesterday, in relation to Powers's statue of Washington. MR. HE\DERSO,\-Mr. President, my opinion is that our rules require the resolutions to be numbered and called up in their regular order, according to their numbers, and discussed or postponed accordingly. PRESIDENT-MIr. Secretary, read the resolultion.' Secretary read: Resolved, That a committee, consisting of five members, be appointed by the president of this Convention for the purpose of corresponding with and requesting the authorities in Washington City for the return, to the State of Louisiana, of Powers's gra nd statue of\Washington, taken from the Capitol building at Baton Rouge, by the United SHates, on the occupation of that place by the Federal army, and sent by them as a trophy to adorn the Central Park in New York City, where it is now placed. MR. GORLINSKI-Mr. President, I offer a substitute. PRESIDENT-It is OUt-Of order. The substitute should have been offered when the resolution was, yesterday. MR. WILSON-Mr. President, I would like to have the resolution read again. I did not hear it. I expect it was my own fault, but I desire to know what it is before I vote on it. [The secretary re-read the resolution.] MR. BELoI —Mr. President, I mo ve to lay the resolution on the table. [The motion to table was lost, and on putting the original motion the chair decided it carried. A division was called, and a rising vote showed 51 ayes to 21 nays.] PREnSIDE.NT-I appoint on that committee Messrs. Sullivan, Stiner, Burke, Ennis and Waters. MIR. SMITE —Mr. President, I call up my resolution offered yest erday. PRESIDENT-Mr. S e cretary, read the r eso - luti on. Secretary read: Resolved, That the Commit tee on General Provisions be in str ucted to embody in their report an article, or articles, making it obligatory on the first Legislature to convene under the constitution, to compel the several parishes, corporations, as well as private citizens, throughout the State, that have issued sight drafts, notes or shinplasters, payable in Confbderate money, or otherwise, to provide for the redemption of the same in current funds. Mr. HiR,N-A-I move the adoption of the resolution. MR. HENDERSON-I believe it is open to debate. MR. BAuM —I move to lay the-resolution on the table. MR. SMITH-I would like to say to the 9 66 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION member who moved to lay it on the table, that it involves a matter of more importance than most people are aware of. It is now in the hands of poor men, mechanics and laborers, who have earned it by hard labor; taken it because it was in a measure forced upon themmen who are loyal, and never had any faith in Confederate currency, and took it because they knew the men who issued it had property to redeem it. Under such circumstances, are they going to lose it? I say that if men here move to lay such a resolution on the table for the purpose of cutting off debate on it, their constituents will not bear them out in such action. MR. MONTAGUFE-Mr. President, I would like to know if this is a legislative body? The question is clearly one for legislative action. MR. STOCKER —Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. A resolution to lay on the tabl e s s not debatable. [The president put the question. and on a rising vote it was lost. Ayes 32, nays 36.] MR. WILSOxN-I call for the ayes and noes on this question. This is a precedent, and I want to see how members vote on it. MR. DUANkE-Mr. President, I move that the question is open for debate. PRESIDENT-The question is now open to debate on the mttion to adopt the resolu Gen. Banks cares nothing for the d e - cisi o ns of our courts, an d we m ight as well s ay to-day that there sh all be a provision in the constitution by which the property of thos e pers ons who bel on g to the Confederate gover nment is no t tha t of enemies. We should n ot legislate upo n a question inv olving a conflic t with the constitution of the United States an d the militar y power, or when the decisio n of that questi on belongs to another body, i n times of peace, much less in these times o f trouble. Even this case has been reaso oned upon. If a n auctioneer sells property and takes the currency o f a defacto Confederate government, and is not called upon t o pay them until the Federal go vern ment-is restored, the money being in the meantime on deposit, there is an unsett led question a s to his liability. You may put a valuation on it, but cannot order a note to be paid in Confederate mo ney; and if you do you come in conflict with the military power, wh ich is parat ountnow. As I said, this is a delicate question, which we sh oul d lay over to times of peace, whe n we can pass upon it. Suppose a man owes me ten thousan d dollars, and Confederate money is worth ten cents on the dollar, w ould he come into a court of justice as a Union ma n and pay me in Confederate money? No, the courts would oblige him to pay in Federal money. I say that such a debt cannot now be paid in Confederate money; y ou cannot do it. In other times such money was consider ed go o d, and if tendered you were bound to t ake it. Did not Congress judge that President Lincoln had no right to issue greenbacks? Yes; but that is a question of power. Let the Supreme Court decide that question; it is not for us to say. Judge Atocha, of the Provost Court, orders that Confederate money shall be delivered to the rightful owners, but they cannot pass it without committing a criminal offence ifthe'y do; they all become particeps crimini through violating a criminal law. I owe ten thousand dollars, and offer Confederate money in -payment; my debtor states the case to Judge Atocha and I am put- in prison, for military law is paramount. tio'n. HE —,-DEPS0,N-This question, sir, is of high importance to this Convention, for we are about to legislate on that which involves the fundamental. law of the land, which appropriately is within the jtirisdiction of another body. Every one understands that, according to military rule in Mississippi, trafficking in Confederate money is permitted within the Federal lines; whereas, in Louisiana, the money is not only forfeited, but te transaction is a criminal offence. -What is to be the law of the land, the action of the State or of the military power? I say the I.atter. - If we go o to-day and say that shinplasters, payable in Confederate money, —shall be redeemed in Federal money, we are immediately in conflict with the Federal government. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CNNSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. God, I shall have to be answerable neither in word or action for anything which may be detrimental to the benefit of the people of Louisiana. With these remarks I leave the subject. MR. CUTLER- -I cannot see any good reason why the request of the gentleman from the parish of St. Mary should be granted. I see no reason why we should hesitate to act on any grave and important question that arises. All the gentleman desires, it seems to me is, that the Committee on General Provisions take into consideration the subject matter of his application, and report their deliberations thereon. Now, it is true that this body has assembled for no other purpose than to, make the organic law of the State of Louisiana; in other words, to build a foundation for the Legislature of the State to build a great structure upon, and by recurring to the articles 118, 119, ] 20, and 121 of the constitution of 1852, we find this foundation is there laid for the Legislature to build a subsequent structure upon. It may be necessary even for this Committee on General Provisions as they necessarily have to consider those articles, to take into consideration any subject matter connected therewith that may be presented by any member of this Convention; at least,I suggest that there is nothing improper in it. Then, after the question has come before the committee for their careful deliberation, and is reported upon, seems to me it might be made the order of the day, and the merits or demerits of the subject matter discussed. By recurring to the article, you will find it is proper for this Convention to lay down the basis of the subsequent action of the Legislature. MR. WILSON- I seconded the motion to lay the resolution on the table, because I think the agitation of the redemption of shinpla sters, by this Convention, is a dangeroiis discussion. I think it has a much wider tendency than the previous speaker seems to imagine. In fact, it involves a principle, which, in my opinion, will give aid and comfort to the enemy. It is purely a matter for the; Legislature, and should never have been introduced here. Although I honestly believe that the shinplasters Military law is the law of necessity, and because of that, civil law must yield when it conflicts with it. I do not speak of any gentlemai,'s motive, whether he be for or against this resolution. At some time we can, perhaps, consider this matter, but is this the time for action? I think w e should not now consider or take action upon it. MR. CAZABAT-I take it for granted that the member s of this Convention are assembled here for one purpose, and for one purpos e alone; that is to revise and amend the constitu tion of Louisiana. Ou r p ower so far is supreme; but I do not see how the position can be admitted, even for argument's sake, that we have a right to legislate on any other topic whatsoever. I, for my part, sir, firmly believe, right or wrong, that it would be the worst policy, and most insane and mischievous, to legislate upon matters which do not properly come before us. We are here, sir, by what authority? By the military authority; by orders from the commanding general of this department. For what purpose? For the purpose I- have already stated, to revise and amend the constitution of Louisiana. MR. STOCKER-I, for one, sir, shall object to and vote against every resolution and motion that is not connected with 4he great object we have in view. Sir, I have in my mind a few of the motives which induced Mr. Smith to introduce this resolution. I have no doubt but that he intends to do what is right, or that his sentiments and opinions are for the benefit of the people he represents, but this is not the time to discuss the merits or demerits of this resolution. Whether it is injurious or benefical to the people of Louisiana, it is not for me to say, for such discussion does not belong to this body. I think of it as I do of the resolution relating to Washington's statue and Gov. Shepley's administration. I wish so to place myself before this Convention-not only before it, but my constituency- the people of Louisiana, the American people, the world and my consicience, that when I stand before Almighty 67 88 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION report. I move it be referred to the Corn* mittee on General Provisions. MR. CAZABAT-I move it be laid on the table., [The motion was seconded, but on being put was declared lost. The original motion of referring it to the committee was also lost.] PRESIDENT-The question now is on the adoption of the original resolution. MRI. SMITE-I call for the yeas and nays. [The call for yeas and nays was not res ponded to by the Convention, and a rising vote was taken and the resolution was de clared lost; yeas 48, nays 13] MR. HOWELL-I call my motion to rescind resolutions previously adopted. The resolutions were read by the secre tary as follows: Resolved, That the resolution adopted on Friday, 15th April, 1864, in the following words, to wit: "Be it Resolved, That the sum of one hundred thousand dollars be and the same is hereby appropriated out of the general fund, for the purpose of paying the members, officers and employ6s of this Convention, the mileage and per diem to which they are respectively enti tled; the same to be paid by the treasurer of the State, on the warrant of the presi dent of the Convention," be and the same is hereby rescinded. Resolved, first, That the resolution, adoptedeen Friday, 15th April. 1864, in the following words, to-wit: "Resolved, That the members of this Convention shall receive from the public treasury a compensation for their services, which shall be ten dol lars per day during their attendance on, going to and returning from the sessions of tfiis Conr.vention," be and the same is here by rescinded. Resolved, second, That the compensation for the services of the members of this Con vention shall be the same as allowed to the members of the General Assembly by the constitution adopted in 1852. MR. SULLIVAN-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was put and carried.] MR. GORLI.NSKI-I call for the reading of my resolutions of yesterday. The secretary read the resolutions as follows: Resolved, That the regular hour for the meeting of this Convention, during the remainder of its sittings, shall be 12 o'clock were forced on many poor men without their will, and I am still in favor of sustain ing a proposition of that sort embraces not one or ten thousand dollars, but a mil lion even in this city; for we cannot act upon the proposition in regard to the parish of St. Mary alone, and the question will ultimately arise on those who have made these issues in the city of New Orleans. Shall we indemnify men who issued and forced them on the poor and needy of New Orleans, without one dollar to back that issue? I think the question is a dangerous one, and one which we have no right to legislate upon or entertain for one moment. MR. SM)ITH-I maintain that the non-redemption rather than the redemption of these shinplasters, gives aid and comfort to the enemy. According to the gentleman's own assertion, they have been forced in p aymen t on the p oorer classes, w ho refu sed to recei ve C onf eder ate mo n ey, they had no confidence in it. The b utchers, mechanics and working classes took this money, bec aus e they knew the men who issued it had property to re deem it; a nd now these men, with thousands of dollars in their pocket s, say they will never red eem the shinplasters they have issued. The parish of St. Ma ry issued the mone y in good faith, to meet the wants of the people, and not to aid and comfort the rebellion or carry on the war, but simply because the laboring classes-the loyal people-w ould not receive Confederate money. I maintain that this Convention, the first that has met since the commencement of the rebellion, has a right even to legislate in its sovereign power. The resolution only calls for the committee to report simply, not to. legislate; and certainly they have a right to report articles. MR. CUTLER-I move it be referred to the Committee on General Provisions. MR. STOCKER —I wish the resolution read again. It strikes me that it instructs the committee to report in a particular way, and I would like to vote understandingly. The resolution was read by the secretary. MR. CU'rLER —You will perceive the reading is, that the committee is instructed to AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. M., and any member not answering to his name when the roll is calked, shall forfeit the sum of two dollars, to be deducted from his per dien, and any member who shall be absent from his seat an entire day, shall forfeit his per diem for each day he shall fail to attend, unless absent by permission of the Convention, or for sickness, either in his own person or family, the proof of which shall be a certificate frog a regular physician. Resolved, furlher, That the secretary keep a record of the names of all members not answering at roll-call, and the names of all members who shall be absent from their seats an entire day, and for each day so absent, unless they have leave of absence from the Convention; and to make a list of said members at the end of every week, a copy of which shall be furnished the Committee on Finance, and a copy to the President of the Convention, who will strictly enforce the penalties as prescribed in the foregoing resolution. MR. DAVIES-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was carried.] ME. CAZAB-.T-I move a reconsideration of the resolution adopted yest erda y, requiring the State auditor to fuirnish a statement of the receipts and expenditures of the treasury under the administration of Gen. Shepley, on the ground that all resolutions are required to lie over one day before being acted upon by the Convention. MR. MATRER-I move to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. PRESIDE.NT-HOW did the gentleman vote on the original resolution? Mr. CAZABAT-I voted'in the affirmative. PRESIDENT —Then you cannot make a motion to reconsider. Mr. STOCKER-At the time the resolution was introduced I called the attention of the chair to the fact that, according to the rule adopted all resolutions and ordinances must lie over one day before being acted upon, but the matter having escaped the memory of the chair, my motion was not regarded at the time, and the resolution was adopted, but it was adopted in opposition to the rules, and I now ask the chair to decide whether that resolution is in fact FRIDAY, April 22, 1864. The proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Jones, and the roll was called and the following gentlemen respon'ded to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Balch, Baum, Barrett, B ell l,Bof i, Bonzano, Buckley, Burke, Ca mpbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Dufresne, Duan e, Durell, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Foley, Fuller, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinskii reer, aGruneberg, Harnan, Hart,Healy, Head e rda, He nder son, p illse, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maurer, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Weuck, Wells, Wilson-75. The secretary then proceeded to read the minutes. Mr. Hiarnan m o ved to dispe n se wit h the read ing of the nam es. Carried. MR. HiILS-I m ove to dispe nse with the reading of resolutions w hi ch are the order of the d ay. [The reading of the reports of the Committee on Impeachment and the Special -Committees, were also dispensed with. The minutes were adopted as read. There being neither petitions nor memorials, resolutions were next in order.] MR.' GORLINSKI-I offer the following, to lie over till to-morrow: Resolved, That the following be adopted as an additional standing rule of the Convention: Rule LVI. It shall be in order for any member to propose, without previous notice, any amendment or substitute for an original proposition which may be under consideration, provided the same,does not conflict with rule XXV. MR. MO.TAMAT-I wish to be informed if the secretary of state has sent to the Con vention anything in relation to new members. PRESIDENT-That will come up in course. MR. TERRY-I offer the following: complete. PRESIDEN'T-I think the resolution was properly adopted. Mo. THatoP-The rules were suspended in that particular case. 60 MR. SHAW-1'MOVE we adjourn till tomorrow at 12 oiclock. The ihotion was carried, and the Convention adjourned accordingly. 70 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two wit nesses to the same overt act, or his own con fession in open court. Art. 3. The Legislature shall have power to declare the punishment of treason; but no attainder of treason shall work corrup tion of blood or forfeiture, except during the life of the person attainted. Art. 4. Every person shall be disqualified from holdin any office of trust or profit, in this State, and shall be excluded from the right of suffrage, who shall have been convicted of treason, perjury, forgery, bribery, or other crimes or misdemeanors. Art. 5. All penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offence. Art. 6. The privilege of free suffrage shall be supported by laws regulating elections, and prohibiting, under adequate penalties, all undue influence thereon from power, bribery, tumult or other improper practice. Art. 7. No money shall be drawn from the treasury but in pursuance of specific appropriation made by law, nor shall any appropriation of money be made for a longer term than two years. A regular statement and account of the'receipts and expenditures of all public moneys shall be published annually, in such manner as shall be prescribed by law. Art. 8. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as may be proper and necessary to decide differences of arbitration. Art. 9. All civil officers for the State at large shall reside within the State, and all district or parish officers within their districts or parishes, and shall keep their offices at such places therein as may be required by law. Art. 10. All civil officers, except the governor, and judges of the Supreme and Inferior Courts, shall be removable by an address of two-thirds of the members of both Houses, except those the removal of whom has been otherwise provided for by th is constitution. Art. 11. In all elections by the people, the vote shall be taken by ballot, and in all elections by the Senate and House of IPepresentatives, jointly or separately, the vote shall be given viva voce. Art. 12. No member of Congress, nor person holding or exercising any office of trust or profit under the United States, or either of them, or any foreign power, shall be. eligible as a member of the General Assembly, or hold or exercise any office of trust or profit under the State. Art. 13. None but citizens of the United States shall be appointed to any office of trust or profit or be employed on the public w~orks in this State, providing the same be said from the public funds. except the corn Resolved, Th at no p er son is eligible fo State or municipal office who has not the -qualifications required in a voter for mem bers of this Convention; and if there are any persons holding office under the State or municipal authorities, not so qualified they shall be promptly removed. MR. ABELL-I desire to offer a resolution in regard to the laying over of the reports of the committees: Resolved, T hat the reports of the seyeral committees o n amendments be printed, and erequired to lie over at least two dlays. MR. MONTIMAT-I move tha t t h e rules be suspended, in order to adopt that resolution immediately. MR. HILTS-I seco nd the motion. [The qu estion was put and carried.] MR. MONTAMh T-I move the adoption of the resolution. [The resolution was adopted.] The reports of the Standing Committees were then in order. GMr. Bo,izio,-A s c hairman of the Comn mittee on E manc ipation, Mr. P res ident, I report progress.] Mr. FOSDIcK-Mr. President, the chairma n of the Committee on Legislative Depart ment reports progress. Mr. Fish, chairman o f Commi ttee on Executive Depart ment, announced they had no report to make. Mr. How ell, chairman o f Committee on Judiciary Departmnent, stated they would be able to report during the day. Mr. M ann, chairman of the Commit tee on General Provisions, requested that Mr. Foley, a member of the committee, be allowed to read the report. Mr. Foley then read the fol lowing: Mr. Presid ent- Your Committee upon General Provisions beg leave to make the following report: Article 1. Members of the General Assem-. bly, and all officers, before they enter upon th e dutie s of their offices, shall take the following oath or affirmation: " I (A B) do E solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will stip- ( port the constitution and laws of the United States and of this State, and that I will faith- fully and impartially discharge and perform m all the duties incumbent on me as according to the best of my abilities and understanding, so help me, God." Art. 2. Treason against the State shall t consist only in levying war against it, or in adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and p AND AMENDNENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. pensation be less than nine hundred dollars ($900) per annum. Art. 14. The laws, public records, and the judicial and legislative written pro ceedings of the State, shall be promul gated, preserved, and conducted in the language in which the constitution of the United States is written. Art. 15. That no power of suspending the laws shall be exercised, unless by authority of the Legislature. Art. 16. Prosecutions shall be by indictment or information. The accused shall have a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the parish in which the offence shall have been committed. He shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself; he shall have the right of being heard by himself or counsel; he shall have the right of meeting the witnesses face to face, and shall have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; he shall not be twice put in jeopardy for the same offence. Art. 17. All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offences, where the proof is evident or the presumption great, and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. Art. 18. Excessive bail shall not be required; excessive fines shall not be inflicted, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Art. 19. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. Art. 20. No ex-post facto law, nor any law impairing the obligations of contracts, shall be passed, nor vested rights be divested, unless for purposes of public utility, and for adequate compensation previously made. Art. 21. That all courts shall be open, and any person, for any injury done him, in his lands, goods, person or reputation, shall have remedy by due course of law, and right and. justice Administered without denial or unreasonable delay. Art. 22. The press shall be free; every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects; being responsible f or a n abuse of this libe rty. Art. 23. The Legislature shall have power to grant aid to companies or associations of individuals, formed for the exclusive purpose of making works of internal improvement, wholly or partially within the State, to the extent only of one-fifth of the capital of such companies, by subscription of stock or loan in money or public bonds; but any aid thus granted shall be paid to the com pany only in the same proportions as the remainder of the capital shall be actually paid in by the stockholders of the company; and, in case of loan, such adequate security shall be required as to the Legislature may seem proper. No corporation or individual association, receiving the aid of the State as herein provided, shall possess banking or discounting obligations. Art. 24. No liability shall be contracted by tat a a b en i un the State as above mentioned, unless the same b e author ize d by some law for some single ob je ct or wor k, to be distinctly specified therein, which shall be passed by a majority of. the members elected t o bot h Houses of the General Assembly, and the a ggregate amount of debts and liabilities incurred under this and the preced ing article shall never, at any one time, exceed eight millions of dollars. Art. 25. Whenever the Legisla ture shall contract a debt exceeding in amount the sum of one hun dred th ousand dollars, unless in case of war to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, th ey shall, in the law creating the debt, provide adequate ways and means for the payment of the current interest and ofthe pri n cipal when h e e sa me shall be come due. An d the said law shall be irrepealable until principal and intere st are fully paid and discharged, or unless the repealing law contain; some other adequate provision for the payment of the prin cipal and interest of the debt. Art. 26. The Legislature shall provide by law for all change of venue in civi l and crimin al cas es. Art. 27. No lottery shall be authorized by this State, and the buying and se llin g of lot tery tickets within the State is prohibited. Art. 28. No divorce shall be granted by the Legislature. Art. 29. Every law enacted by the Legislature shall embrace but one object, and that shall be expressed in the title. Art. 30. No law shall be revived or amended by reference to its title; but in such case the act revived or section amended, shall be re-enacted and published at length. Art. 31. The Legislature shall never adopt any system or code-of laws by general reference to such system or code of laws, but in all cases shall specify the several provisions of the law he may enact. Art. 32. Corporations with discounting privileges, may be either created by special acts or framed under general laws. But no corporation or individu;al shall have the privilege of issuing notes or bills except those which are already chartered. Art. 33. In case of the insolvency of any bank or banking association, the bill hold 71: 72 DEBATES OF THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION ers thereof shalI be entitled to preference in payment over all other creditors of such bank or association. Art. 34. No person shall hold or exercise at the same time, more than one civil office of trust or profit, except that of justice of the peace. Art. 35. Taxation shall be equal and uniform throughout the State. All property on which taxes may be levied in this State, shall be taxed in proportion to its value, to be ascertained as directed by law. No one species of property shall be taxed higher than another species of property of equal value, on which taxes shall be levied; the Legislature shall have power to levy an income tax, and to tax all persons pursuing any occupation, trade or profession. Art. 36. The citizens of the city of New Orleans shall have the right of appointing the several public officers necessary for the administration of police of the said city, pursuant to the mode of election which shall be prescribed by the Legislature; Provided, That the mayor and recorder shall be ineligible to a seat in the General Assembly, and the mayor and recorders shall be commissioned by the governor as justices of the peace, and the Legislature may vest in them such criminal jurisdiction as may be necessary for the punishment of minor crimes and offences. Art. 37. The Legislature mav provide by law in what case officers shall continue to perform the duties of their offices until their successors shall have been inducted into office. Art. 38. The Legislature shall have power to extend this constitution and the jurisdiction of this State over any territory acquired by compact with any State, or with the United States, the same being done by consent of the United States. Art. 39. None of the lands granted by Congress to the State of Louisiana for buillding or constructing the necessary levees and drains, to reclaim the swamp and overflowed lands in the State, shall be diverted from the purposes for which they were granted. Art. 40. The Legislature shall pass no law excluding citizens of this State from office for not being conversant with any language except that in which the constitution of the United States is written. Respectfully submitted, W. D. MANN, Chairman. ERNEST WENCK, JOHN FOLEY, J. K. COOK, JOHN BUCKLEY, JR., GEO. GEiER, H. MAAS. made the special order of the day for next Thursday, at I o'clock. [The motion was carri ed.] MR. HILLS —Mr. President,the Commi ttee on Public Education submits the following: To the president and memb ers of the Con ventionfor the Revision aned Amendment o f the Constitution of Louisiana: The undersigned, members of the Committee on Publi c Education, ha ve the honor to s ubmi t the following report: Aticle -. There sh all be elected a superitenntendent of public educ ation, w ho shal hold his office for the ter m of two years. His dutie s shil be prescribed by law, and he shall receive such compensatio n a s the. Legislature may direct, provided that the General Assembly shall have power, by a vote of the majority of the members elected to both Houses, to abolish the said office of superintendent of public education, whenever, in their opinion, said office shall be no longer necessary. Art. —. The General Assembly shall establish free public schools throiighout'the State for all children, and shall provide for their support by general taxation on property or otherwise, and all moneys so raised or provided shall be distributed to each parish in proportion to the number of children between such ages as shall be fixed by the General Assembly; but all schools for colored children shall be separate and distinct from schools for white children. Art. -. In order to promote the more extensive diffusion of knowledge, the General Assembly shall make annual appropriation for the encouragement of private schools throughout the State, but the General Assembly shall not be required to make such appropriation for private schools in the parish of Orleans that do not number two hundred pupils, and in other parishes the General Assembly shall determine what private schools are sufficiently large to degerve such appropriations. Art. -. The English language only shall be taught in the common schools in this State. Art. —. An university shall be established in the city of New Orleans. It shall be composed of four faculties, to-wit: one of law, one of medicine, one of the natural sciences, and one of letters. The Legislature shall provide by law for its organization, but shall be under no obligation to contribute to the establishment or support of said university by appropriations. * Art. -. The proceeds of all lands heretofore granted by the United States to this State for the use or support of schools, and of all lands which may hereafter be granted or bequeathed for any other purpose, which MR. ABELL —I MOVE it be received, agd AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. MR. STOCKER-I arose, as I believed, in time for the purpose of objecting to the a d option of that motion, since, as I understand, the amendment must be offered at the time the report was made. PRESIDENT-The amendments are a minori ty report. MR. CUTLER-Mr. President, the Committee on the Mode of Revising the Constitution will be able to report to-morrow. MR. GRUNEBERG —Mr. President, the Committee on Schedule are not ready to report. MR. SHAw-Mr. President, the Committee on Ordinance report progress. MR. BROTT-Mr. President, the Committee on Finance have no report. MR. S. PURSELL —Mr. President, the Committee on Expenses report progress. MR. J. PURCELL-Mr. President, the Committee on Printing have no report. MR. HOWELL —-As a member of the Committee on Federal Relations, I beg leave to state, in the absence of the chairman, that we have not yet prepared the report. With the permission of the Convention and president, I will now submit the report of the Committee on Judiciary Department: hereafter may be disposed of by the State, and the proceeds of the estates of deceased persons to which the State may become entitled by law, shall be held by the State as a loan, and shall be and remain a per petual fund on which the State shall pay an annual interest of six per cent., which interest together with the interest of the Trust Funds, deposited with this State by the United States, under the act of Con gress approved June 23, 1836, and all the rents of the unsold lands, shall be appro priated to the interest of such schools, and this appropriation shall remain inviolable. Art. -. All moneys arising from the sales which have been, or may hereafter be made, of any lands heretofore granted by the United States to this State for the use of a seminary of learning, and from any kind of donation that may hereafter be made for that purpose, shall be and remain a perpe tual fund, the interest of which, at six per cent. per annum, shall be appropriated to the support of a seminary of learning, for the promotion of literature and the arts and sciences, and no law shall ever be made diverting said fund to any other use than to the establishment and improvement of said seminary of learning, and the General Assembly shall have power to raise funds for the organization and support of said seminary of learning, in such manner as it may deem proper. ALFRED C. HILLS, Chairman. M. W. MURIPIY, X. MAURER, J. RANDALL TERRY, T. M. WELLS, GEORGE HOWES. Edward Hart signs the above, intending to offer an amendment to the third clause. }I. C. Edwards signs, dissenting entirely from third clause in said report. I coincide with Mr. Edwards. YOUNG BURKE. MR. H-IRT-As a member of-that committee, I will read my amendment: In order to promote the more extensive diffusion of knowledge, it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to make annual appropriations for the encouragement of all private' schools throughout the State, which are, or may hereafter be, incorporated by legislative enacted. MR. BALCH-I was a member of that committee, but through indisposition was unable to attend its sittings. I wish that the consideration of the report be postponed until Saturday, and accordingly make that motion, as I intend to discuss several of its provisions. [The motion was carried.] 10 To the president and members of the Conven vention to Revise and Amend the Constitu tion of the State of Louisiana: The Committee on the Judiciary DepartL ment beg leave to report the following articles, and recommend their adoption as a portion of the constitution of this State on the subject of the Judiciary, to-wit: TITLE IV-JUDICIARY DEPARTMENT. Article 1. The Judiciary power shall be vested in a Supreme Court, in such inferior courts'as the Legislature may, from time to time, order an d establish, and in justices of the peace. Art. 2. The Supreme Court. except in cases hereinafter provided, shall have appellate jurisdiction only; which jurisdiction shall extend to all cases when the matter in dispute shall exceed three hundred dollars; in all cases in which the constitutionality or legality of any tax, toll or import whatsoever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation,/shall be in contestation; and to all criminal cases on questions of law alone, whenever the offence charged is punishable with death or imprisonment at hard labor, or when a fine exceeding three hundred dollars is act u ally imposed. Art. 3. The Supreme Court shall be com 73 74 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION salaries for any civil duties peformedby them. Art. 11. The judges both of the Supreme and inferior courts, shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and they shall hold their offices during good behavior. Art. 12. The clerks of the superior courts shall be appointed by thejudges thereof, and they shall hold their offices during good behavior, subject to removal by the judges respectively, with the right of appeal in all such cases to the Supreme Court. Art. 13. The Legislature shall have power to vest in clerks of courts authority to grant such orders and do such acts as may be deemed necessary for the fuirtherance of the administration of justice, and in all cases the power thus granted shall be specified and determined. Art. 14. The jurisdiction of justices of the peace shall not exceed, in civil cases, the sum of one hundred dollars, exclusive of interest, subject to appeal in such cases as shall be provided for by law. They shall be appointed by the governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and shall hold their offices during good behavior. They shall have such criminal jurisdiction as shall be provided by law. Art. 15. There shall be an attorney general for the State, and as many district attorneys as may be hereafter found necessary. They shall be appointed by the governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and shall hold their offices during the term for which the governor shall have been elected. Their duties shall be determined by law. Art. 16. A sheriff and coroner shall be appointed in each parish by the governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and they shall hold their offices for the term for which the govenor shall have been elected, unless sooner removed. The Legislature shall have power to increase the number of sheriffs in any parish. All of which is respectfully submitted. R. K. HOWELL, Chairman. H. J. HEARD, R. KING CUTLER, JOHN -HENDERSON, JR., R. BEA.UVAIS, We. H. SEYMOUR, JAMES FULLEIt. MR. tILRNAN —I move that report be made the order of the day for Friday, the 29th. [The motion was carried. Reports of special committees were then declared in order.] MR. MON-TAMAT —Mr. President, the Committee on Credentials report progress. MAI. WILsoN'-Mr. President, the Commit~ tee on Assault of Members report progress. ' posed of one chief justice and four asso-' ate justices, a majority of whom shall con stitut e a quorum. The chief just ice s hall receive a sala ry of t en th ousand dollars, and each of the asso ciate justi ces a salary of nine thousand dollars annu ally, until ot her wis e provided by law. The court shall appoint its own clerks. Art. 4. The Supreme Court shall hold its sessions'in New Orleans from the first Mon day of the mo nth of November to the end of the month of June inclusive. The Legis lature shall have power to fix the sessions elsewhere du ring the rest of the year; until otherw ise provided, the sessions shall be he l d as heretof ore. A rt. 5. T he Suprem e C ourt, a nd each of the judges thereof, shall have power t o issue writ s of habeas corpus, a t the instance of p erso ns in actual custody under process, in all cases in which they may ha ve a ppel late jurisdiction. Art. 6. No judgment shall be rendered by the Supreme Court without the concur rence of a majority of the judges comprising the court. Whenever the majority cannot agree, in consequence of the recusation o f any member or members of the court, the judges n ot recused shall have power to call upon any judge or judges of the inferior courts, whose duty i t shall be, when so c alled upon, to sit in the place of the judge or judres recused, and to aid in determin ing the case. A rt. 7. All j udg es, by v irtu e of their office, shall be conservators of the peace through out the State. The style of all process shall be " the State of Louisiana." All prosecu't ion s shall be c arri ed on in the name and by the authority of the State of Louisiana, and conclude again st the peace a nd d ignity of the same. - Art. 8. The judges of all courts within the State shall, as often as it may be pos sible so to do, in every definite judgment, refer to the particular law in virtue of which such judgment may be rendered, and in all cases adduce the reasons on which their judgment is founded. Art. 9. The judges of all courts shall be liable to impeachment; but for any reason able cause, which shall not be sufficient ground for impeachment, the governor shall remove any of them, on the address of three fourths of the members present of each House of the General Assembly. In every such case the cause or causes for which such removal may be required shall be stated at length in the address, and inserted in the journal of each House. Art. 10. The judges, both of the Supreme and inferior courts shall. at stated times, receive a salary which shall not be dimin isheed during their continuance in offie i and they are prohibited from receiving any fees of office or other compensation than their 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Enrolling clerks, each......... $6 per day. Translating clerks, each....... 8 " The mileage of each member from the country parishes 20 cents per mile, coming and returning to. All compensation to officers and employcs to commence from the date of their election or appointment. All of which is respectfully submitted. GEO. A. FOSDICK. MR. TERRY-I move it be made the order of the d ay n ext Tuesday. MR. HILLS —I amend to to-m orrow at one o'clock. MR. BEIL-:I rise to a point of order. We have just adopted a resolution that the reports of commit tee s shall lie o ver at leas t two days. PRESIDENT-That applies to standing committees. [Mr. Hills's motion was then carried.] The following communication from the secretary of state was then read: STATE OF LOUISIANA, ) Office Secretary of State, - New Orleans, April 22. To the honorable president of the Constitu tional Convention of Louisiana: SIR-I have the honor of transmiting you, herewith, the official return of the election for one delegate from the parish of Ascension, to represent that parish in the Constitutional Convention of Louisiana, held on the 18th ultimo,!and stating that Emile Collin obtained 85 votes of 131, and was consequently elected as such. Very respectfully, your obedient servant, S. WROTNOWSKI. MIR. HIRE-I move that the report be adopted, and that Mr. Collin be received as a member of this Convention. PRESIDENT-The proper motion is to refer it to the Committee on Credentials. MR. GASTINEL-I make that motion. [The motion was adopted without objection. The unfinished business of yesterday was next in order.] MR. GORLTNSKI-I call for the reading of my resolution of yesterday. The resolution was read by the secretary. Whereas, On the evacuation of Baton Rouge, after the ever-memorable battle of the 5th day of August, 1862, Col. Payne, of the Fourth Wisconsin Volunteers, then commanding the post of Baton Rouge, crowned his heroic deeds of that day by an act which has secured to the use of this Convention and the State a valuable public library, bers. MR. STOCKER-W~e have diligently tried to make our report, but have not received such information as will justify us in doing so at present, and therefore ask for further time. MR. M. W. MURPHY-Mr. President, the Committee on Compensation of Officers submitt the following report: Mr. President-Your committee, appoint ed to fix the compensation of the officers and employes of this Convention, beg leave to present the following, viz: President of the Convention... $20 per day. John E. Neelis, secretary..... 18 " S. G. Hamilton, assistant secre tary...................... 10 " Thomas H. Murphy, assistant secretary.............. 10 a M. DeCoursey, sergeant-at-arms 15 " Two assistant sergeants-at-arms 6 " Two messengers, each........5 " One postmaster..............8 " One doorkeeper..............8 " Chief reporter................ 12 " Three assistant reporters, each 10 " One warrant clerk........... 10 " Enrolling clerks, each........5 " The mileage of each member from the country parishes, twenty cents per mile, go ing and coming. All compensation to officers and employes shall commence from the date of their elec tion or appointment. All of which is respectfully submitted. M. W. MURPHY, Chairman, W. D. M.NX,' J. RANDALL TERRY, JAM~ES E~NIs. Mr. FOSDICK-Mr. President, as a member of that committee, I desire to submit the following minority report: To the president and members of the Conven tion: The undersigned, one of the committee appointed to fix the compensation of the officers and employcs of the Convention, begs leave' to submit the following report, that they shall receive as follows: Secretary...................$15 per day. Assistant secretaries, each.... rslto. 10 y Sergeant-at-arms............. 10 " Two assistant sergeants-at-arms, each...................... 6 " Two messengers, each........3 " One postmaster..............5 " One doorkeeper..............5 " One reporter................8 " Three assistant reporters, each 8 " One warrant clerk............ 6 " 75 PRESIDE.,\-r-Committee on Absent Mem 76 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tendance on, going to and returning from the sessions of this Convention," be and the same is hereby rescinded. Resolved, second, That the compensation for the services of the members of this Convention shall be referred to a special committee. MR. STOCKER-Mr. President, a resolution to the same effect was offered and acted upon yesterday, and I wish to know if this was properly presented. 4 PRESIDENT-The Convention may pass a resolution one day and rescind it the next; but, in any event, it will probably administer a proper rebuke to any member who unnecessarily delays business. MR. KAVANAGH-I move to adjourn until 12 o'clock Saturday, the 23d instant. [The motion was carried.] together with Thorpe's great painting of Gen. Zachary Taylor, and other paintings, which now adorn the hall of this Convention, and also saved Hiram Powers's statue of Washington, which is said now to be in the Patent Office at the national capitalall of which would have been stolen or destroyed by fire, which demolished the State House, had not Col. Payne caused the same to be removed to this city, when, by order Gen. Butler, they were protected as the property of the State; therefore, be it Resolved, That the thanks of this Convention and of the people of Louisiana are due and are hereby tendered to Major Gen. B. F. Butler and Col. Payne for saving the above mentioned State property. Resolved, further, That the governor be and is hereby requested to correspond with the authorities at Washington, and make suitable arrangements for the ruturn and reception of the above mentioned statue of Washington and its future disposition in this State. MR. SULIv.vAN-I move to lay it on the SATURDAY, April 23, 1864. [The House was called to order a few minutes past 12 o'clock, and the proceedings opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Tho'nas. The secretary then called the roll, and the following gentlemen answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch. Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, M endiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thomas, Thorpe, Wells, Wilson-78. The secretary then read the minutes of the preceding session, dispensing, on Mr. Stiner's motion, with calling the votes, etc., on Mr. Hills's motion with resolutions, the order o f the day and th e reports.] MR. CAMPBELL —I would make a correction. The minutes as read state that my resolution of yesterday came up. I wish the secretary to correct by saying the chair ordered it up. MR, CAZABAT-MY attention has been called to the passage in the minutes, which table. [The motion was carried.] Mr. Campbell called for the reading of the following: Whereas, The United States bounty paid to soldiers enlisting in the army, cannot be paid to men enlisting in the First and Second regiments of New Orleans Volunteers, now be ing raise d under Cols. Killborn and Brown, bacause of their be ing organized for a s pecial purpose, that of the c ity d efence alone and wishing to aid in filling the same, Resolved, That the sum of dollars bent e and the same is he reby app ropriat ed by the State, to pay a bounty to each man who may hereafter enlist in the First and Second regim ents of New O r le ans Volunteers, and that the government is hereby authorized to carry the same into effect according to its best judgment. SIR. MONTAMAT-I move that be referred to the next Legislature; we have nothing to do with it. [A motion to lay on the table was carried.] MR. GORLI,lrKI-I move to adjourn. [The motion was lost.] Mr. Schroeder offered the following, to lie over until to-morrow: Resolved, That the resolution adopted on Friday, April 15, 1864, in the following words, to-wit: " Resolved, That the members of the Convention shall receive from the public treasuary a compensation for their services, which shall be ten dollars, during their at AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. states that the members whose credentials were referred to the committee were from the parishes of Plaquemines and Ascension. I wish to amend by striking out "Plaquemines," both members being from the parish of Ascension. MR. GORLINSKI-I called for the yeas and nays on my resolution, and not Mr. Goldman. [The minutes. as amended, were then adopted.] There being no petitions or memorials, new resolutions were in order. MR. S. PURSFIL-I have a resolution to offer, in regard to which I hope the summary process will not be adopted. Let things be considered on their merits. [Mr. Pursell's resolution was then read.] Resolved, That the following be offered as a substitute for article 35 of the report of the Committee on General Provisions, and that it be made the order of the day and taken up with said report: Art. -. Taxation shall be equal and uniform throughout the State. All property, shall be taxed in proportion to its value, to be ascertained as directed by law. The General Assembly shall have power to exempt from taxation property actually used for church, school, or charitable purposes. The General Assembly shall levy an income tax upon all persons pursuing any profession, occupation, trade or calling, and all such persons shall obtain a license, as provided by law. All tax on income shall be pro rata on the amount of income or business done. MR. HILt,s-In order t o s ave the time of the Convention, I offer the following, and move to suspend the rules in order to act upon it at once: Resolved, That in reading the minutes of this Convention the secretary shall dispense with the reading of all roll-calls, giving simply the results, all resolutions that lie over under the rules, and all that were laid on the table, and all printed reports, unless otherwise directed by the Convention. [The rules were suspended and the resolution adopted.] MR. ABETT — offer the following: Resolved, That when a report of a standing committee is taken up, it shall be considered section by section (seriatim), and that no section shall be finally adopted until it has undergone three readings on separate days. MR. FULLER —I offer the following in regard to amendments and substitutes, since several of the most important com mittees have reported: Resolved, That one day's notice shall be given of any amendment or substitute to be proposed to the report of any of the standing committees. MR MR. FOLEY-I offer the following, and move to suspend the rules a nd adopt it immediately: Resolved, That the secretary be directed to cause the various reports of the committees of the Convention to be printed in such form as will admit of amendments therein; and that the secretary be directed to cause the same to be printed without delay by the printer of this Convention. [The moti ons wer e carried.] The repo rts of stand ing comm itte es were next in order. No report wI offe,red from the Committee on Emancipation. The chairman of Co mmit tee on Legislative Department, and t he chairman of the Commi tte e o n Inter nal Improvement, reported progress. No report was received from the Committee on Executive Depar tme nt. MR. CUTLER-As chairman of Committee on Mode of Revising the Constitution, I p res ent the following: lb the president and members o f the State Constitutional Convention: Your committee, to whom was referre d the "Mode of Revising the Constit ution," beg leave to submit the fol lowi ng report, and recommend the adoption of the following instead of article 141 of the constitution of 1852. Art. -. An y amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or HIo use of Repre sentatives, an d if the s am e shall be agreed to by two-thirds of the members elected t o each House, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals with the yeas and nays taken thereon. Such proposed amendment or amendments shall be submitted to the people at an election to be ordered by said Legislature, and held within ninety days after the adjournment of the same, and after thirty day's publication according to law; and if a majority of the voters at said election shall approve and ratify such amendment or amendments, the same shall become a part of the constitution. If more than one amendment be submitted at a time, they shall be submitted in such manner and form that the people 77 78 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION may vote for or against each amendment separately. Respectfully submitted, R. KIG CUTLER, Chairman. E. A. KNOBLOCH, Jos. G. BAum, J. H. STINER, PATRICK HARNAN. MR. STOCKER-I move that the report be received, 200 copies printed, and that it be made the order of the day for May 3d. -MR. HILS-I amend to next Tuesday. [The motion was seconded.] MR. HARN.AN-The report of another committee is made the order of that day; therefore this should not also be. [Mr. Hills's motion was carried.] MB. GRUNEBERG-Mr. President, the Committee on Schedule reports progress. MR. Suiw —-The Committee on Ordinance reports progress. Neither the Committee on Enrollment, nor that on Finance, had any report. MR. S. PruSELL —The Committee on Expenses reports progress. MR. J. PURCELL-The Committee on Printing reports progress. No report was received from the Committee on Federal Relations. Reports of special committees were then called for. MR. MONTAMAT-The Committee on Credentials will report in a few minutes. MR. WiLSoN-The Committee on Assault of Members reports progress. MR. STOCKER-As chairman of Committee on Absent Members, I would state that we are not yet prepared to make such a report as will be satisfactory. [The secretary read a communication from the secretary of state, enclosing credentials of Mr. T. J. Decker, returned from the parish of Plaquemines.] MR. HITS-I move that the matter be referred to the Committee on Credentials. [The motion was carried.] MR. MONTAMiT —As chairman of the Committee on Credentials, I submit a report in favor of the admission of new members, Which was received, and Mr. Collin admitted. [Unfiihdinished business was next in order.] oR.oTERRY-i I call for the reading of my resolution. [Mr. Terry's resolution was read:] Resolved, That no person is eligible for State or municipal office who has not the qualifications required in a voter for members of this Convention; and if there are any persons holding office under the State or municipal authorities not so qualified, they shall be promptly removed. MR. HARNAN-I move its adoption. MR. THOMAS-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was lost by a vote of 7 to 37. The yeas and nays were called.] YEAs -Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Cutler, Flagg, Henderson, Maas, Mann, Newell, Payne J., Seymour, Wells-11. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofil, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W.; Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Shroeder, Shaw, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Wenck, Wilson, Collin, Duke-68. [The motion to la y o n the table was consequently lost. The- motion to adopt the resolution w as stated by the chair.] MR. HENDERSON —-I suppose the motion is debat able. I o ppo se the resolution now before the Con vention upon the s ame ground that I did one of yesterday-on the ground that it is retroactive. We have nothing to do with officers appointed by either Governor Shepley or Governor Hahn, whether we approve or disapprove of the respective appointees. We have come here to make a constitution for the people of Louisiana. When the consttitution goes into effect, and not till then, can we call in question the qualifications of officers already appointed. This resolution covers two propositions — first, the eligibility of any man to an office; secondly, the eligibility of those now incumbent. When this constitution goes into effect it can operate upon those henceforth holding offices, but not upon those previously appointed,; for these last may, or may not, have taken a certain oath. I am opposed to any action of this Convention in AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. officers will be right, and all will act in concert. Whose duty is it to appoint and remove the officials of either the State or city? The governor and mayor are the two who possess the power, and that is right; but if we make laws to act retrospectively, we may cause discord, since this would be the first time that this has been done by any convention, State or national, from that of 1776 to the present time. The existing laws must remain as they are till the new constitution goes into effect. It may be I have spoken too long on this question, but I desire that the members of this Convention shall understand my position. regard to governor, scretary of state, treasurer, or any other officer already appointed. - Our action should be prospective from the time the constitution takes effect, when all officials must have certain qualifications prescribed by it. Gentlemen of the Convention, if you go back to the time of the first great convention of 1776, you will find that certain members of it were born upon foreign soil. Two of those members-Hamilton and Wilson-the one a delegate from New York, and the other from Pennsylvania, were leading men. The action of that convention was prospective, for the constitution then framed declared that only native born citizens should be eligible to the offices of president and vice-president, except those who wer e then on the soi l fighting for it, thereby rendering Hamilton and Wilson, who were foreigners, as eligible as George Wash ing ton. T he v ery m en w h o wished to make ineligible to those offices all except na o n ctive born citizens, did not sustain th eir o wn pr oposition, but, to a man, voted against it, rightl y f eeling that Hamilton, though born in the Highlands, was fighting our bat'tles, and was as muc h a n Am erica n as W ashington, born in Virginia. You may by your schedule decide what shall be the qualification s of the officers we are to have in future, and more than that, you may say that no ma n s-hall hold an off ic e between the time of the adoption of the constitution, or any p eriod the reafter, unless he possesses certain qualifications. That is ou r pow er, but we know nothing in regerd to present app o inte es. I am, therefore, in favor of t he first clause of the resolution but opposed to the second, because with it we have no c on cern. We have elected a g overnor and -that governor is bound to see that every officer appointed by himself, or by Gov Shepley, is duly qualified, and if he think him disqualified may remove him. I think we have sufficient confidence in our governor and the powers that be to believe that all officers appointed either by him or the military power are properly in their places; still, if we adopt the first clause there may be a conflict of powers, whereas any qualifications prescribed for future MR. MONTAMAT-I would like to have the gentleman explain if he intends this resolution to apply to'both civil and military officers. I do not like to vote on the question without being well aware what I am doing. MR. TERRY-The resolution applies to civil officers only-State and municipal. The question in regard to what we have to do in the future, has nothing to do with the present. The only question is, whether we are delegates of the people or not; whether we are sent here by them or the military power. We are here as the sovereign and supreme power of Louisiana; but since we have first to show our qualifications which enable us to hold our seats in this Convention, is it right that men should receive pay from the State and city who are not qualified as well as we? This is, I think, the only question. MR. HOWELI-Mr. President, I voted against laying the resolution on that table for the reasons, first, because I desired to oppose the habit which has obtained in this Convention of throwing everything upon the table as soon as it is proposed; secondly, in order to obtain the opinion of some of the members of this Convention upon the question. I have no objection to having the Convention express an opinion as to what shall be the qualifications for officeholders in this State at this early period of the session, but I am opposed to any attempt of the Convention to vacate any office now filled, because I think this is not a part of our duty. 79 80 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION' and I see no objection to requiring it from every office-holder. I therefore move to lay the resolution on the table, subject to call. MR. ArELi-Mr. President, I think this Convention has no such power. I should like to know how it is to be done, unless we send out a posse to remove them? That question belongs more properly to the Legislature. It may be well for the Conven tion to express its opinion on the qualifications of office-holders, but it has no power to remove from office. MR. THomAs-Before the question is put, Mr. President, I desire to give my reasons for voting against its adoption. I think that we have come here for a single purpose, to revise and amend the constitution, and that this question is not in the line of our duty. I shall therefore vote against it, because it is foreign to the purpose and object ofthe Convention; and I shall vote against all similar resolutions on the same ground, and upon the ground, too, that the doings of this Convention are not the law of the land, until they are submitted to the people. Suppose we should remove men from office, and then when our acts are submitted to the people they should not be accepted. I think that when the question of the adoption of section XIII comds before the convention will be the proper time to introduce this question. MR. FOSDICK —Mr. President, I fully agree with the views expressed by Judge Howell, and at the same time I think this Convention ought to express its opinion on the subject. I therefore move to amend by striking out the words "shall be removed" and substituting "'in the opinion of this Convention ought to be removed." [The amendment was not seconded.] MR. SHAw-Mr. President, before this question goes to the Convention, I think it ought to be explained to the Convention what the reasons are that have called for such action. I think we could hardly expect such a resolution to be presented unless there was some occasion to render such action necessary or expedient; and if there is any particular necessity for the measure, the Convention has the right to know it before voting on the question. MR. THoRsPE-Mr. President, the resolution simply calls for the iron-clad from every man in office, State or municipal. We all of us have been required to take it, [The motion was seconded.] MR. STOCKER-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. The question has already been decided by this Convention. PRESII)ENT-The motion is not debatable. You will sit down. A motion to lay on the table, subject to call, is not decided by a motion to lay on the t able merely. [The motion was put and lost.] MR. STOCKER- -Mr. President, I voted against laying the resolution on the table for two reasons; one was, that I wanted to have the expression of the Convention on the question itself, and another reason was because I believed it a matter not in the province of the Convention to decide, and I wish to record my vote against it. MR. IHILI,S-Mr. President, I wish to say that I am in favor of the resolution as a general principle, but if it has any application to any military officers or appointments, I should vote against it; understanding that it has no such application, I shall vote for it. MR. AUSTIN-Mr. President, I wish to call the attention of the Convention for a moment to the resolution and its effects. Who are the officers which it is designed to affect? It certainly includes the mayor, the chief of police and the lieutenants. We have no right to call these appointments in question. It is simply absurd, and I shall vote against it. MR. CAZ.BATMr. President, in regard to this question, I am somewhat in the dark. I voted against laying it on the table as a matter of principle. My views have been expressed by Mr. Stocker. I believe it is a matter with which this Convention has nothing to do. I am in favor of the principle involved in this resolution, because I want every man in office in Louisiana to show the evidence that he has taken the oath prescribed by the president in his proclamation of December 8th, 1863. If this was the object of this resolution, and it was a matter within the province of the Convention, I should vote for it. I know little of the officers now in AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. officer; that duty devolves upon the gov ernor and the heads of departments. MR. THOMAS-I call for the yeas and nays. [The call was sustained, and the roll was called with the following result:] YEAS-Messrs. Bailey, Baum, Campbell, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Harnan, Healy, Hills, Howes, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, 'Wilson-18. NAYS- -Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Balch, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Fuller, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Grnneberg, Hart, Henderson, Heard, Hire, Howell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat. Morris, Montague, Newell, Normand, O Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Collin, Duke-68. MR. STOCKER —Mr. President, the hour havin g passed for ta ki ng up tee order of the one day, I move w e take it up. MR. MONTAMAT-By request of the member fro m Terrebonne. I call up his resolution lnid over f rom yesterday. MR. STOCKER-I submit to the decision of the chair the hour has passed. PRESIDENT-The unfinished business always has precedence, unless the order of the day is specially called up by the Convention. Mr. Secretary, read the resolution of Mr. Gaidry. [The secretary read:] Whereas, All the constitutions ever framed in this State have decreed that all judicial and -legislative proceedings should take place in the French and English languages; And whereas, Several members of this Convention, who are true republicans and loyal to the core, but are not very familiar with the English language, have been delegated to this Convention by constituents who are also unacquainted with the said language-which-right to choose delegates as they please said constituents possessed, as they are the sovereign-people, and that to deny such supreme right would be tantamount to disfranchise said people; Resolved, That all resolutions and motions to be presented in this convention be translated into the French language, so that the members from the several parishes, who are not familiar with the English language, be fully aware of what they are voting upon. position in New Orleans. I take it for granted they are all loyal men, and worthy their position. I take it for granted that our worthy governor has not appointed any one unless he was satisfied that he was a citizen of the United States. I take it for granted that he has as certained, in every c ase, that every ma n was qualified as requtired by the proclama tion of the commanding ge neral. On these grounds, therefo re, a nd beqause I think we have nothing to do with the matter-although I voted n ot to lay the resolution on the table-I vote a gainst its adoption. MR. CUTLER-Mr. President, I ha ve n o d oub t the question has already been sufficiently discussed, bu t I desir e to add a few remarks. inasmuch as I heard a voice or two in fav or of it s adoption. Nearly all t he speakers on the question are correct in taking th e ground that it is a matter with which this Convention has n oth ing to do. We should keep in mind the difference between the duties of this Convention and of a legislative b ody. This is clearly a legislative act, and it will not be merely an act of le g islation, but an act of great injustice to that class of men now in office. I do not ques tion t he motive of the mover, but it was certainly unwise to int roduce such a resolution. The argument of the gentleman from the Third District (Mr. Thomas) is conclusive, that this body cannot pass any law, nor can it pass a -public law that can have a retrospective action; and if, by this resolution, we remove any officers now holding their positions, we do it in violation of fundamental law. I voted to lay this resolution on the table. I did it in a spirit of candor, because I thought it was time to stop this discussion by laying all such motions on the table, and to come to the work before us. With these views, I must vote for such action on all similar questions that may be proposed here. If a man who is not properly qualified takes the oath of office in violation of law, he is responsible by law, and the law should be enforced. It is not, however, in the province of this Conventign to remove an 11 91 I 82 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION MR. HENDERSON-Mr. President, I move to lay the resolution on the table. MR. HILLS-I second the motion. [The question was put, and the resolution tabled.] ORDER OS THE DAY.. PRESIDENT-If there are no other resolutions the secretary will read the special order of the day. [The secretary read the majority report made yesterday by the Committee on Compensation of Officers and Employes.] MR. BELL-Mr. President I have a substitute to offer. MR. HENDERSON-Mr. President PRESIDENT-There is a minority report. [The secretary read the minority report of same committee.] MR. HENDERSON-I move to amend so that instead of being from the date of appointment or election, they all be paid from the commencement of the session; they have done back work, and should receive the pay. MR. HILLS-I move to take up the report offered by officer. MR. BELL —Mr. President, my amendment was first, but I did not have an opportunity to have it acted upon. MR STAUFFER-I move to lay the amendments on the table, because I think we have already paid the reporter extra. [The motion to lay on the table was lost. The question was then put on Mr. Henderson's motion, and it was adopted.] MR. HILLS-Mr. President, I now renew my motion to take up the report officer by officer. [The question was put and carried. The first part of the report was read fixing the compensation of the president at $20 per day.] MR. HILIS-Mr. President, I move to strike out that portion of the report. My reasons are, that it is eminently a position of honor, and I do not believe that the president would wish to have extra compensation. MR. MONTAMAT —I move to amend by substituting "fifteen dollars" for twenty dollars. MR. GOLD-MAN —I move to lay that amendment on the table. MR. TERRY-I amend, subject to call. [The amendments were tabled.] PRESIDENT-The question is on the motion to strike out. MR. HENDERSON-I move to lay Mr. Hills's motion on the table. MR. HiLLs-I call for the yeas and nays. [The roll was called, with the following result: YEAS-Messrs. Abell Austin, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell. Burke, Campbell, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Ennis, Fish, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Heard, Henderson, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montague, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Payne J., Purcell J., Shaw, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wilson-36. NAYS- Messrs. Ariail, Bailey, Baum, Balch, Bofill, Buckley, Cook J. K., Collin, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Duke, Edwards, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Millspaugh, Morris, Monta gue, Murphy E., Newell,; Normand, Ong, Pintado, Poynot, Schroeder, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stauffer, Wenck, Wells-46. The motion to lay on the table was lost. The question upon th e adoption of the original motion to strike out was then put by the chair and declared adopted. A division w as called and the vote stood: ayes 39, nays 31, as fo llows: YEAS-Messrs. Arial, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Co ok J. K., C rozat, Collin, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Flagg, Fosdick,,- Foley, Gastinel, Gol dman, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Ho well, Howes, Kavan agh, Maas, Maur er, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Morris E., Newell, Normand, Ong, Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Seymour, Smith, Stumpf, Stauffer, Sullivan, Wenck, Wells-46. NAYs — Messrs. Abell, Austin, Barrett, Bell, Cazabat, Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Fuller, Geier, Gorlinski. Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Montamat, Montague, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Spellicy, Stocker, Stiner, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wilson-34. The motion to strike out was carried. The second clause, fixing compensation of the secretary at $15 per day, was then read. A motion was made to amend to $12 per day, and, on motion, tabled, and the report adopted. The question on the adoption of the pore AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. To fix compensation for doer-keeper was next in order.] MR. MONTAMAT I move to amend to ten dollars. MR. FOSDICK-I move to amend to five dollars. [The amendments were tabled and the report adopted.: The salary of A. P. Bennett, chief re porter, now came up.] MR. STOCKER-I move to amend to fifteen dollars per day. The most laborious por tion of the work is that performed by the reporters, and they ought to be well com pensated for it. [A motion to table the amendment was lost, and the amendment was carried, and the report as amended adopted. The compensation of the assistant re porters, Messrs. Gallup, Bartlett and Burn ham, next came up.] MR. BELL —I move to amend to twelve dollars and a half per day. [The amendment was tabled and the re port adopted. To fix the salary of the warrant clerk was next in order.] MR. STOCKER —-I move to amend to six dollars per day. MR. GOLDMAN-I move to lay the amendment on the table. [The motion was carried and the report adopted. I The next question was on compensation of enrolling' clerks.] MR. HARNAN --- How many enrolling clerks? We want to know how many we are to pay. I move to make it one chief clerk and ten assistants. MR. GOLDMAN-I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mu. GASTINL —-I move that the chief of the enrolling clerks shall receive twelve dollars and a half per day. PIT[ESIDENT —-The motion is out of order. [The question on the adoption of the report was put, and the report adopted. The report fixing the mileage of members at 20 cents, was next in order.] MR. FOSDICK —I move to amend to 15 cents per mile. MR. Mxwu-E-Mr. President, I wish to tion referring to Mr. S. G. Hamilton, assistant secretary, was then put.] MR. STOCKER-I move to amend to twelve dollars and a half. [The amendment was lost and the report adopted. The portion of the report referring to Mr. Murphy, assistant secretary, was then adopted without remark. The portion of the report fixing the compensati on of the sergeant-at-arms, Michael DeCoursey,at $15 per day, was next read.] MR. FOSDICK-I move to amend to $10 per day. MR. HENDERSON-I m ove to lay that amendm ent on the table. (The motion to table was carried, and the report adopted. The secretary read " two assistants, each, s ix dollars per day."] MR. HEALY-I move to amend by maki ng it ten dollars per day. [A motion was made to lay the amendment on the table. The president put the question and declared it lost; but, upon a call for a division the vote showed that it was carriedyeas 51, nays 20. A motion to amend to eight dollars was made.] MR. MONTAM XT-I move to lay the motion on the table. [The motion was tabled and the report adopted. The report fixing the salaries of messengers at five dollars per day, was read by the secretary.] MmR. FOSDICK-I move to amend to three dollars per day. MIR. HENIDERSON —I move to lay the motion on the table. [The amendment was tabled.] ,%R. HEAL~Y-I move to amend to six dollars per day. [A motion to table this amendment was carried, and the report adopted. The compensation for postmaster then came uip.] MR. FOSDICK-I move to amend to five dollars. [The amendment was tabled and the report adopted. 88 84 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION employ translating clerks, or what authority there is to have them employed? There has been no resolution passed authorizing their employment. If our proceedings are to be translated into French, it is done by the printer, and they are published in French in the official paper. I think that is all that is necessary in the premises. MR. HOWELI —-I move to adjourn. [The motion was carried, and the Convention adjourned till 12 o'clock on Monday.] inquire whether the members receive their per di em for the time occupied in coming and going as well as the ir mileage; i f th ey do, I sh all oppos e the adoption of the report. MR. HEARDThe words per diem going and coming are mere surplussage. I have ra been a member of two Legislatures, and I n ev er knew members to d raw for th e time occupied in going and coming. They n ever d o it. The distance from Baton Rouge is calculated at 140 miles in round numbers, and the mileage is something like frifty-four dollars. [The ques tion on the adoption of the report was put and carried. A mo tio n wa s m ade to adopt the r epor t, as amended, as a whole.] MR. STOCKER —I move to am end so th at it shall read, instead of saying tha t they shall receive pay from the date of their election or appointment, it shall read that they shall receive pay from the 6th day of April. MR. HrLi -— Mr. President, I rise to a point of order; that amendment has already been adopted. PRESIDENT —-The question is on the adoption of the amendment offered by Mr. Stocker. MR..HILIS —-Mr. President, I think it will be seen, by referring to the secretary's minutes, that that amendment has already been adopted. MR. STOCKER —-Mr. President, I think that the gentleman is in error. A resolution to that effect was introduced, which, under the rules, must lie over till to-morrow. Now, I move this as an amendment to the report. [The question on the adoption of the report as a whole was then put and carried.] MR. MONTAMXAT-Mr. President, I think we have Omitted translating clerks altogether; we have two translating clerks; I move that they receive eight dollars per day. MR. DAVIES —I amend to six dollars. [Amotion to lay the amendment on the table was lost.] MR. STAUFFER —-Mr. President, is the question now debatable? PREsiDENT —-Yes. MR. STAVFFrR —I wish, then, Mr. President, to enquire what necessity there is to MONDAY, April 25, 1864. [The house was called to order a few minutes past 12 o'clock, and after prayer by the Rev. Mr. Hopkins, the secretary proceeded to call the roll, and after some delay the following members answered to their names: Messrs. Bell, Arial, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Duke, Davies, Dufresne, Duane, Ed, wards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, GoldmanGorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Har, nan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, HireHowell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Mills. paugh Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand O'Couner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell, J., Puirsell, S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, h r e Thorpe, Th omas, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-78 me mbers pre sent. The minutes o f Saturday were then re ad by the secretar y.] Mr. FOSDIcN-There is a n error in the min utes. They state the minor ity report of the Committee on Compensation presented by myself was taken up, which was not the case. PRESIDENT-The s ecretary wi ll m ake the correction. [The minutes were then adopted without objection,.] Mr. CROZf T —I beg leave to reconsider my vote on the res olution to strike out the compensation of president. PRESIDENT —It is not in order. Mr. GOLDMAN —I rise to a question of privilege. Two years ago to-day the citizens of New Orleans beheld the stars and stripes for ihe first time since the commencement of the rebellion. To render appropriate honor to Admiral Farragut, I move we go AN) AENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA, into a Committee of the Whole and adjourn till to-morrow. PRESDEN,T-Not in order. Mr. GOLDH —I thought a motion to adjiourn was always in order. I move we adjourn till to-morrow. Mr. MoAMAT-I move to l ay it on the table. [The motion was carried. Petie netions, memorials and resolutions were declared in order.] Mr. CROZ.tT-I beg leave to reconsider m y v ote on the amendment of Mr. Hills to strike out of the report of the committee the compensation of president. Mr. MONTA.MAT-I second it. Mr. FOSDICK-I amend b y r econside ring the vote on the whole. Mr. FOLEY-I mov e that we reconsider the vote on the resolut ion to strike out the compensation of thevpresident. Mr. GOLDM.fN-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was put and declared lost.] Mr. GOLDMAN I cal l for a div ision. [A rising vote showed yeas 59, nays 9.] PRESIDENr- The motion now is on the reconsideration. Mr. HAR IAN-I mov e it lay over u nder the rules. [The motion was lost, and the question to reconsider carried by viva voce vote.] Mr. MONTA.MAT-I move the adoption of the report. Mr. GOLDMAN-I move to lay it on the table. ,Mr. HILLS-I second the motion. (The motion to lay on the table was lost.] Mr. HILLS-I believe the question is open to debate. Mr, President, I should very much regret to see this Convention recede from its action of last Saturday on this question. There is an opinion abroad in the community that this Convention is very wasteful of the public money, and I am not sure it is altogether unfounded. In the beginning the Convention voted its members each $10 per day. It may be that is not too much. I will not say, but I repeat what I have previously stated, that the honor of occupying the seat as president of this Convention is a sufficient remuneration for all the duties belonging to that office. It is pre-eminently a position of honor-a position which any gentleman might well be proud of, and I think it would be degrading to that office to give it additional compensation. I think the president should receive the same compensation as the other members of the Convention, and no more. I would not have any member swayed in his action by the fear of public opinion; but at the same time, I believe that in these matters we should carry out the wishes of our constituents, and it seems to me we have done several things in this Convention which were not economical, and were against the interests of our constituency. For one thing, we voted the salaries of the employds of the Convention back to the 6th of April, thus disposing of hundreds of dollars for services never rendered to the Convention. It seems to me to be wasteful, unnecessary and unjust. I for one am in favor of the Convention adhering to its action of Saturday last, making the remuneration of the president the same as that of the other members of the Convention. Mr. HENDERSON-This question has already been decided by public usage, since you will find that in all the various conventions the president has received double the pay of the members. I refer the gentleman to the distinguished positions of the president and vice-president of the United States' The vice president is ordinarily the president of the Senate, and he has larger compensation than any member, but not as large as that of the president. When any member of that body is called to the chair to supply the place of the vice president, who, in case of det the de ath of the President, is called to fill that office, the compensation of that member is increased from that which he received as senator to the salary of the vice-president. This was the case at the time of the death of President Harrison. Had we fixed the pay of members at four dollars per day, the president would be entitled to $8. This is partly a matter of deference to the gentleman occupying that position, while at the same time it is due to him on account of the duties of his office! as he has to direct the calling of 85 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION the ayes and nays, put the resolutions, rise from his seat, etc., while any member may retain his seat from the beginning to the end of the session without speaking a word and yet receive his ten dollars per day. I regard this as a question of principle, and therefore am in favor of reconsideration; and as for honor, I am in favor of compensation in proportion. Since honors are not always easy, although it is often remarked that the greater the honor the less the pay; my will is the reverse. I wish in an officer who fills this position, talent and integrity, and one capable ot commanding respect; and therefore I shall from this time forward, vote for compensation in proportion to the distinction of the office, irrespective of the man who fills it. Why should the president and vice-president receive different salaries? Simply because of the distinction, since it is very seldom that a vicepresident is called upon to act as president. In conventions this is always allowed as a tribute of respect to the president, whether individually they are for or against him; and for that reason I voted for it the other day. Mr. FOSDIcK-Before the question is put, Mr. President, I consider that it is but due that I, as a member of the committee, having made a minority report, should have something to say upon it. I take issue with the gentleman who has just spoken upon the question upon the custom of paying the president a per diem double that of the members in Louisiana. It is not mentioned in the proceedings of the convention of 1852. The custom, if it exists anywhere, is not known in the reports of former conventions in Louisiana. It is entirely a differ. ent affair from the speakership of the House of Representatives. In fact, he is not president, and no precedent can be found in Louisiana for making him a higher rate. of compensation than that of other members. IMR. GOLDemN-I move that it be postponed indefinitely. [The motion was not seconded. The motion was then put and the report adopted.] Mr. HILLs-I call for the- ayes and nays. [The call was Sustained, and the roll was called, with the following result: YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Baily, Bar rett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Burke, Cazabat, Cook, T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Durell, Ennis, Fish, Fuller, Gaidry, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Montague, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Shaw, Smith, Stocker, Stiner, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wilson-44. NAYs-Messrs. Ariail, Balch, Baum, Bon zano, Bromley, Collin, Duke, Dufresne, Edwards, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Grm neberg, Healy, Harnan. Hart, Hills, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Normand, Ong, Poynot, Schroeder, Sey mour, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stauffer, Sullivan Wells-38.] Mr. KAvANAGH-Mr. President, I am ill formed by the mayor of the city that the police officers on duty have been dropped from the police pay roll. I therefore offer a resolution to pay them: Resolved, That all the police officers on duty at this hall receive four dollars per day each for their services. Mr. CAMPBELL-Mr. President, I move to so amend the resolution that it shall read: Resolved, That all the police officers of the city receive four dollars each for their services. PREsIDENT —Amendments are not in order. The resolution lies over under the rules. Mr. FOLEY-Mr. President, I move to suspend the rules, in order to take it up now. [The question on the adoption of the motion was put and carried.] Mr. CAMPBELLT-Mr. President, I now move to amend the resolution so as to extend it to all the police of the city. Mr. THOMAs-Mr. President, I move to amend by striking out four dollars per day, substituting "the same as they receive( on the police pay roll."' [A motion to lay the motion on the table ,.was lost.] Mr. MONTAGUE-I move to amend by adding that the number be restricted to four. [The question was put and declared lost. A division was called for, when a dozen members sprung to their feet inquiring, "What is the question? "What are we voting on?" "I don't what the question is!" "We don't know what we are voting 86 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. for!" etc. Upon counting the votes, the secretary reported 12 yeas and 33 nays, and the president declared the amendment lost.] Mr. FoLEY-I now move the adoption of the original resolution. PRESIDE,NT-The question is on the adoption of the original resolution. Mr. AUSTIN —Mr. President, is that motion debatable? PRESIDENT-NO; it has been debated already. [The question was put, and the chair declared it carried. A division was called for, and showed a vote of 46 ayes to 34 nays.] PRESIDE\TT-The next business in order is the reports of standing committees: Emancipation. Mr. BONzANO-Progress. PRESIDENT-Legislative. Mr. FOSDICK-Progress. PRESIDE.T-Executive. Mr. FIsH-The committee have agreed to adopt Art. III of the constitution of 1852 as it stands. PRESIDENT-Schedu l e. Mr. GRU.EBERG —Pro gress. PRESIDENT- Enrollment. Mr. THORPE-I would report that the Committee on Compensation of Officers and EmployEs, have lef t off two officers from the ir repor t —the chie f clerk o f the Enrollment Committee a nd the translators. They are not on the majority re por t at all, but are on the minority report. PRESIDENT-What shall we do with the report? Mr. WsoIIN —I move that they be added to the report. Mr. BAILLEY —I move that the c ompensatio n of translato rs be fixed at twelve dollars per day. PRESIDENT- That is o ut of order. The question is that they be added to the report of the Committee on Enrollment. Mr. MONrTAGUE-Committee on Compensation, he means. Mr. WILSoN-That the y be added to the report of the Committee on Compensation. Mr. HILLS —-I move to a men d that their names be added to the pay roll. Mr. FOLEY —I make a motion that their compensation be referred to the proper committee. Mr. BAILEY —I move that it be referred to the Committee on Finance. Mr. FOLE~ —-I accept the amendment. Mr. HILLS —-I move to refer it to the Committee on Compensation. PRESIDENT —-There is no such committee. Mr. HILLs —It is a special committee. Mr. MO,TMTA'-I move to refer it to the Committee on Enrollment. [The motion of Mr. Hills was put and carried.] PRESIDENT-Committee on Finance. Mr. MONTAM.)AT-No report. PRESIDENT-Expenses. Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson-Progress. PRESIDENT-Printing. Mr. PURCELL, of Orleans-No report. PRESIDENT-Federal Relations. Mr. THORPE-I will make a report, with a statement, that there will probably be a minority report not differing in sentiment from this, but in language: To the presi~dent and members of the CXvnv Mr. GOLDMAN' Mr. President, I rise to a question of privilege. I will ask the Convention to excuse me to-day, because I look upon this as a holiday, and I wish to observe it as such. PRESIDENT-The gentleman is out of or der. Mr. GOLDMN —I think this is a question of privilege. PRESIDENT-There is a report before the House; the gentleman will take his seat until that is disposed of. [Mr. Fish read the article from the Revised Statutes.] Mr. HEALY —Mr. President, I move that the report be accepted. Mr. FOSDICK-I move that the report be referred back to the committee, and that they be instructed to make their report in writing. Mr. HILTs —I second that motion. [The question w as p ut and carried.] PRESIDENT-Internal Improvements. Mr. GORLINSKI —The committee can only report progress; it will be ready to report soon. I 87 88 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tionfor Revision and Amendment of the Constitution of Louisiana: Your committee beg leave to report that the constitution and laws of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land, anything in the constitution of this State to the contrary notwithstanding. PRESIDENT-Credentials. [MPR. I]:ONTAMAT read:] . NEW ORLEAt_NS, April 13, 1864. To the honorable the president and menmbers of the Constitutional Convention: Gentlemen Your Committee on Credentials, having examined the returns of elections from the parish of Plaquemines for one delegate to represent the said parish in this Convention, respectfully beg leave to report that Mr. Thomas J. Decker was duly elected, and is entitled to a seat in this Conve n tion. Respectfully submitted, JoHNo T. MONTAMAT, C,airnrman. [A motion for the ad opti on of t h e report was made and carried without debate or remark.] Mr. MONTAMAT-I move that the secretary be instructed to add his name to the roll. PRESIDENT-That will be don e as a matter of course. Assault of Me mbers. Mr. WILsON-The committee wi ll be ready to report to-morrow. PRESIDENT-Statue of Washington. -Mr. SULLIVAN-No report. PRESIDENT-If an there are no other reports, gentlemen can call u p their resolution s laid over from yesterday. Mr. THOMA —Mr. President, I call up the resolution offered by Mr. Fuller on Saturday. [The secretary read:] Resolved, That one day's notice shall be given of any amendment or substitute to be proposed to the report of any of the standing committees. Mr. FoLEY-I move to lay the resolution on the table. [The question was put and the resolution tabled, by a vote of 49 yeas to 26 nays.] -Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, there is a resolution that I offered on Saturday, which I wish to call up. [The secretary read:] Resolved, That when a report of a standing committee is taken up, it shall be considered section by section (seriatim), and that no section shall be finally adopted until it has undergone three readings on separate days. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move its adoption. [The question was put and the resolution adopted.] Mr. POYNOT —Mr. President, I move that the newly elected members be requested to present their iron-clads to the president. R Mr. MONTAMAT --— I beg leave to inform the gentleman that they have already produced them to the Committee on Credentials. Mr. K~A,vi;GI —— I move we adjourn. [The motion was carried.] TUESDAY, April 26, 1864. [The Convention met at 12 M., pursuant to adjournment, and after prayer by the Rev. Mr. Newman, the secretary called the roll and the following gentlemen responded: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell,,Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook T., Collin, Crozat, Davies, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Duke. Decker, Edwards Ennis, Fish, Flagg. Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy E., MurphyM. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson76 members present. A quorum being present, the minutes of the preceding session were read.] Mr. STAUFFER-I notice that the secretary omitted to give the report of the Committee on Federal Relations; but as there was such a report, I desire to'have it put upon the minutes. SECP.ETARY —-I beg leave to state that Mr. Thorpe, the chairman, specially requested that it should be delayed. Mr. STAUFFEn —-The secretary has no right to leave out the report of a committee without leave of the Convention. Mr. BALCI —-In regard to rescinding the resoluti on of Saturday, in regard to compensation of president, I am reported as having voted on both sides, when I was not present at all. Mr. GOLDMAN —-My motion was to go into a Committee of the Whole, in honor of Admiral Farragut, and then adjourn. It is said that motion to adjourn was laid on the I AND AMENDMENT OF TEE CONSTITUTION OF DOUSiANA. table, but this could not be done, being un parliamentary. [The minutes were adopted. No petitions or memorials were pre sented.] Mr. EDWARDS-I offer the following pre kmble and resolutions: Whereas, Positive information has been received by members of this Convention, that all kinds of depredations are daily committed in the parish of Avoyelles and other western portions of Louisiana, within the Federal lines, by guerrillas and other bands of disorganized men; that there is neither safety nor protection for the life and property of loyal citizens, who are driven away from their homes and families on account of their devotion to the sacred cause of Union and liberty; that no respect is shown by those bands of guerrillas to either age, sex or condition; therefore, be it Resolved, That the attention of the adjutant general of this State be called to the actual deplorable condition of affairs in the parish of Avoyelles, in order that proper and necessary means be put in force for the protection and safety of loyal citizens from the guerrillas, raids or attacks from the enemy. Be itfurther resolved, That a committee of three be appointed by the president of this Convention to wait on the adjutant general of this State, and furnish him the necessary information in regard to this matter. PRESIDENT —Reports of Standing Committees are now in order. Mr. BONZANO-The Committee on Emancipation reports progress. Mr. FOSDIc —Mr. President, the Committee on Legislative Department reports progress. Mr. FisiH-Mr. President, the Committee on the Executive Department is ready to report. Mr. AUSTIUN-I move to dispens e wit h t he reading of that repor t. [The motion was carried.] Mr. SuLLIVAN —I move it be made the order of the day for Monday next. [The motion was carried.] Mr. THoRPE-The Committee on Enrollment reports progress. Mr. GRUNEBERG —The Committee on Schedule has no report. Mr. BROTT-The Committee on Finance tees are in order. Mr. WILsoN-The Committee on Assault, of Members beg leave to report as follows, viz: MR. WENCK'S STATEMENT. On the second day of the session (April 7th. 1864,) as I came down the steps from the hall of the Convention, after its adjournment, I saw John McClelland, Mr. Girodias and others standing together on the ban quette. Passing by the side of McClelland, I said, "How are you, John?" He said, pointing his finger at me, "You damned loafer." I answered him, "John, you're wrong in saying so." Then he slapped me in the face, and said, "I'll give you more if you're not satisfied;" then he went ahead about half a block, and waited again; when I came near, with other gentlemen, he went ahead again about a block, and waited; seeing that I was in the company of, ten or twelve friends, he again went on, and so continued, until he, with Gerodias and others, went into the Washington coffeehouse, nearly opposite the True Delta office. On the evening before the occurrence, about five o'clock, I met him for the first time in several weeks; he called me and said, "Have you ten dollars to loan me?" I told him I had only about five or six dollars small change, or otherwise I would Mr. CAZABAT-I move to suspend the rules in order to act on it immediately. Mr. ABELL-I move to refer it to General Banks. [ Mr. Cazabat's motion was carried. ] Mr. HILLS I move to lay the resolution on the table. [ The motion was carried. ] Mr. HILLS-I beg leave to offer the following; believing it to be a shame that sixty or seventy members should be kept waiting for an hour every morning for six or seven. Resolved, That members o f this Convention not absent with leave, who do not answer to the first roll-call of the secretary, shall forfeit one-half of their per diem allowance for every day of such absence. Mr. CAZABAT-! move to lay it on the table. Mr. FOLEY -I move to suspend the rules, for its immediate adoption. [ The motion was lost. ] PRESIDE,NT-It lies over. 12 I 89 reports progress. .,Al r. S-PuRsFLL —The Committee on Expenses has no report. Mr. J. PURCELL-The Committee on Printng has no report. P.R,ESIDENT-Reports of Special Commit 90 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION give it to him; then he took a ring from his finger, and said, "'I will give you this ring as security.' I told him, " I don't want your ring. If I had the money I would give it to you without the ring." As I was about leaving him, he turned round and said, "Wenck, I'm a candidate for secretary of the Convention, are you going to vote for me?" I answered him, "I have promised, but if my man has no chance after the first ballot, I'll vote for you." This is all that has passed between us for several months. On, or about the 8th instant I made an affidavit before Recorder Vennard, charging McClelland with assault and battery. He was arrested, and gave bail. Three days after, I was informed that the case had been fixed by Recorder Vennard for a hearing on the 30th of April. (Signed) ERNEST J. WENCK. MR. JOHN BUCKLEY, JR.'S STATEMENT. As I left the Convention I met Mr. Mc Clelland, and a few other gentlemen cofi versing. I stopped, and said, "Mr. McClel land, 1 am sorry that my vote did not elect you;" whereupon he replied, "But there are some that are not gentlemen," or some thing to that effect. As Mr. Wenck came, I turned my back to the parties, and con versed with Mr. Gerodias and Maurer, when I heard Mr. McClelland say, "You know me, and you know where to find me," and I looked around and saw Mr. Wenck's hand on his hat, and Mr. McClelland walked off, and Mr. Wenck a few steps behind him. When Mr. Wenck asked me if I saw "that." 'I said "no, I did not. I had my back turned talking to Mr. Gerodias and Mr. Maurer," and I walked home slowly with Mr. Maurer. Mr. Wenck came with us as far as Canal and St. Charles streets. JOHN BUCKLEY, Jlt. MR. M'CLELLAND'S STATEMENT. On day of election for chief clerk of Convention, met some of the members after adjournment; among others met Mr. Buck ley, who remarked ".that he had done his best for me, but that those members who had voluntarily pledged themselves to vote for me had not kept their promise." I as serted "that all such were not gentle men;" whereupon Mr. Wenck came up, and asked me "if my remarks were intend ed for him?" I replied "yes." He then told me he did not care a d-n. Having the True Delta in my hand at the time, I tapped him on the cheek with it; I then moved on. Wenck then came up, making a demonstration as if to strike me; I told him "I did not want to have anything to do with him, to let me alone;" I then went away, and on arriving at corner of St. Charles and Common, I saw that he had followed me; I told my friends that I feared a difficulty with Wenck, I would leave, and I left. Wenck has made an affidavit before Recorder Vennard against me for the alleged offence, and I am now awaiting trial —said trial to come off on the 30th inst. (Signed) JOHN MCCLELLAND. The committee have thought it best to re port the facts o f t he case as presented before them in evidence, and leave it to the good sens e of the Convention to suggest what action shall be taken in the c ase. All of which is respectfully submitted. J. H. WILSON, Chairman. ALFRED SHAW, ROBERT MORRIS. Mr. DUANE-I move the statement of the accused be stricken out; as he is a prisoner he has no right to make a statement in his own behalf. Mr. MONTAMAT —I move the report be laid on the table. The case is in the hands of the proper authorities, and Mr. STAUFFER —I call the gentleman to order; he has no right to discuss a motion to lay on the table. PRESIDENT —I must say, as president of this Convention, I consider the motion to lay the report on the table a very extraordinary motion, but, as the motion has been seconded, I shall put it. [ The motion was lost. ] Mr. STAUFFER-I call for the reading of the report -by the secretary. [The report was read again by Mr. Wilson.] Mr. FOLEY-I move it be received, but not inserted in the minutes of the Conventionz. Mr. DuA-E-I move the report of the accused be stricken out. Mr. GORLINSKl —I move the report be laid over to await the decision of the court. [ The motion was lost. ] Mr. THIORPE-Is the question debatable? PRESII)ENT-It is. Mr. THORPE-I think it is our business to attend to the punishment of the-se parties, if they are guilty, and not leave it to the court. The fact that two members of this Convention have been assaulted, while in the performance of their duties, is a very serious, and to me a very alarming state of things; and I agree with the president that the gentlemnan who moved to lay th~e whole AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. thing on the table made a very extraordinary proposition. It is undoubtedly the fact that the great mass of the people of New Orleans have been always among the best disposed and most excellent citizens of the whole country. They were excellent under the Union, and excellent as a general thing under the Confederate rule; but it is also true that this city has been for thirty-five years, to my personal knowledge, disgraced by a species of rowdyism that has made it undeservedly notorious beyond any city in the United States. I believe t hat New Y o r k, Philadelphia, or Boston, to-da y, have m o r e outrages committed than the cit y of N e w Orleans; but here these matters particularly are brought before t he public in s u c h a way as to exaggerate th e facts and g ive the city an unenviabl e notoriety. We are here in Convention to form a State constitution, and the position of a delegate is one of the most responsible and honorable duties that has been performed since our fathers made the Declaration of Independence. We have high duties to perform, and are thrown upon our sense of honor and dignity. Here two members elected to the Convention, and only a day or two afterwards, in this hall, a member is assaulted because he presumed to use his independence and vote for whom he pleased to fill one of the offices of the Convention. He was assaulted, and I do not care whether it was a mere laying on of the finger or a rude assault, it was an outrage on the members of this Convention and on the dignity of this body, and if we permit it to go unpunished and unnoticed, I do not know where it is to end. 1 am for taking the matter in hand and making an example that will strike terror to those who would take the law into their own hands. I say, without fear of contradiction, that while I have been in New Orleans I have seen no crime committed in Louisiana-not even the pulling down of the Union flag by Mumford-that is more censurable than these assaults of members. put a stop to this personal Thugism that is a disgrace to the city of New Orleans, and if allowed to rise again, I ask, what will honorable m en say? Mr. HARNAN —Mr. President, that report does not embody the second assault. It merely refers to one. I move that it be referred back, and that the committee be instructed to report on both assaults. Mr. WImso~ —The committee did not think it right or proper to embody the other assault in their report. It did not grow out of, or have any connection with the action of the party assaulted in this Convention, who although he is a member of the Convention, was not assaulted as such. We did not think it proper to bring every member's private grievances before this Convention. We thought it sufficient to lay before the Convention the case in which the action of a member in the Convention was the occasion of the assault. Mr. HILI,S-Mr. President, it seems to me that the committee has failed to perform its duty fully. They have simply set forth facts. They should have stated what action they thought it necessary for the Convention to take in the matter. I therefore move the appointment of a special committee of three, with Col. Thorpe as chairman, to take into consideration the facts, and report what action they deem it best for the Convention to take. Mr. BRoTT-Before the question is put, I wish to remark that I consider the question, as it now stands, as an indignity to the committee who have had the matter under consideration, and, therefore, I move to amend the resolution so that the report shall be referred back to the same committee. Mr. HILhS-I accept the amendment, Mr. President. No reflection was intended against that committee when I made my motion. Mr. FOLEY —Mr. President, I move that the name of Mr. Thorpe, as chairman, be added to that committee. Mr. HILs —-I accept that amendment, Now, let us set an example and for all time, and pass sentence on this individual to-day, and pass some resolution that will 91 I too. ,Nfr. MORRIS-I was one of that committee, and was in favor of reporting a resolution DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION but it was not considered necessary by the other members, and was not done. [The question was put, and the motion, as amended, was adopted.] Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson-Mr. President, I have a resolution, offered on Saturday, which I wish to call up. PRESII)ENT-It should have been called up yesterday. It cannot be called up today. Mr. PURSELL-What, then, can be done with it? PRESIDENT-It may be offered again as a new resolution, and will have to lie over one day under the rules.' Mr. PURSELL —I wish, then, to offer it to day. The secretary has it. PRESIDENT-The Convention cannot wait Gentlemen must attend to these things in time. Offer it to-morrow. Mr. PURSELL —But it is a substitute to a part of a report that is the order of the day for to-morrow, and that will be too late to offer it. PRESIDE'rT-If there are no other resolutions, the order of the day will now be taken up. Mr. Secretary, what is the order of the day? SECrETARY —The report of the Committee on Public Education. Mr. BALcH-The secretary is in error. I made the motion myself to make it the order of the day for Saturday, and the motion was carried. PRESIDENT-Read again, Mr. Secretary, the order of the day for to-day. [Secretary read-April 26th, special order of the day, report of the Committee on Public Education. Half a dozen members spgtung to their feet, denying the correctness of the seeretary's minutes, among which could be distinguished the voice of-] Mr. MONTA.AT-It is a mistake. I made the motion myself to make it the order of the day for Tuesday, and it was amended to Saturday and the amendment adopted. Mr. HiLTs-Mr. President, if the secretary will take the trouble to examine the minutes, he will find that the report of the Committee on Public Education is ordered for Satur 'day, and ha te a that the report of the Committee on the Mode of Revising the Constitution was made the order for to-day PRESIDENT —How is it that the secretary has made such a mistake as this? Read the report, Mr. Secretary, section by section. [The president called Mr. Brott to the chair and left the hall. The Secretary read:] To the president and members of the State Constitutional Convention: Your committee, to whom was referred the "Mode of Revising the Constitution," beg leave to submit the following report, and recommend the adoption of the following, instead of article 141 of the constitution of 1852: Article -. Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by two-thirds of the members elected to each House, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals, with the yeas and nays taken thereon. Such proposed amendment or amendments shall be submitted to the people at an election to be ordered by said Legislature, and held within ninety days after the adjournment of the same, and after thirty days' publication, according to law, and, if a majority of the voters at said election shall approve and ratify such amendment or amendments, the same shall become a part of the constitution. If more than one amendment be submitted at a time, they shall be submitted in such manner and form that the people may vote for or against each amendment separately. Respectfully submitted, R. KING CUTLER, Chairman. JosEPH G. BAuM, J. H. STINER, PATRICK HARNAN, E. A. KNOBLOCH. Mr. HE,-DERSON: —-I move the adoption of the entire report of the committee. [The question was put by the chair, and the report declared adopted.] Mr. ABELL -— Mr. President, this is all out of order. Mr. GOLDMAN —-I call for the reading of the re port. Mr. MONTAMATT —-Mr. President, there is a rule that no report of one of these committees shall be adopted until it has been read, section by section, on three several days. Mr. THOMAs — Mr. President, I call for the reading of the report. 92 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CO] PRESIDENT-Mr. Secretary, read the report section by section. [Mr. Wells read:] .Whereas, It is right and proper that suffi cient time be allowed for the calm consider ation of the perplexing and important questions now before this Convertion and in order to give ample opportunity and further time for the country parishes to send their delegates, by which the State at large may be more fully represented and heard; Be it Resolved, That this Convention adjourns on Saturday, the 30th instant, until the 1st June, 1864, at 12 o'clock M., or until such time as called by order of the president of this Convention. Mr. HILLS —-I move that the resolution be referred to Gen. B anks. Mr. DUANE —-I move that the resolution be read by the secretary. Mr. GOLDMAN —-I move to adjourn till 12 o'clock to-morrow. [Five or six other motions to adjourn to various times specified, were made, simultaneously with that of Mr. Goldman.] PRESIDENT —-The secretary will read the resolution. [The secretary read Mr. Wells's resolution.] Mr. MONTAMAT —-I move to adjourn. Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer. PRESIDE-Te —-The motion is to adjourn.. [The president put the motion and decided [The secret ary read the report again.] PRESIDENT —That report seems to have but one section, and therefore comes within the rule. Mr. SULLIvA-Mr. President, according to Mr. Abell's resolution, w hich has b een adopted, a report must be read three times, on different days, before it can be adopted. PRESIDEN-r (to the secretary) —-What do you do in such a case? (To the Conven tion)-It lies over under the rule; this will be the first reading. Mr. HILTS-I do not understand it in that manner. I understand that it must be voted on, on each of the several readings, but that its adoption is not final until after the third reading. The Convention may receive it to-day and reject it to-morrow. Mr. STOCKER —If the gentleman wishes to go contrary to the decision of the chair, he must go it about in a different way. The chair has already decided that the report must lie over for a second and third reading. If the gentleman is not prepared to abide by the decision, he must appeal from it. Mr. HILLS-If the chair has so decided, I appeal from the decision. Mr. HEARD —-The proper course would be, if gentlemen are anxious to act on the report at once, to move a suspension of the rules in order to put it upon its passage. I therefore move a suspension of the rules for that purpose. Mr. BEAUvAIS —I second that. Mr. ABELL —-Mr. President, the object of the resolution I introduced was to prevent hasty action on any of these reports, and to allow time for due deliberation, and I hope the Convention will not abandon the rule. [The chair put the question on Mr. Heard's motion and declared it carried. A division being called for, a rising vote showed 28 ayes to 42 nays. The resolution was therefore lost.] Mr. AFONTAMAT-I move that we adjourn till to-morrow at 12 o'clock. Mr. WELLS- -I have a resolution to offer. Mr. MosTAM&T —-Then I withdraw my mo it carried. A division being called for, a rising vote showed 29 ayes to 42 nays.] Mr. CAZ..'BAT —-I move a suspension of the rules in order to take up the resolution of Mr. Wells. Mr. THo,As —-I move to adjourn till tomorrow-at 12 o'clock. Mr. CAZABAT -— The motion is out of order. I had the floor when the gentleman offered PRESIDEN'T —-The motion to adjourn is in order. [The resolution was put and lost.] Mr. CAZABAT —-I renew my resolution to suspend th e rul es in order to take up the resolution of Mr. Wells. Mr. BELL -— I move to lay the motion on the table. Mr. MulrPHY —I wish to offer a report of the Committee on Compensation. Resolved, That the compensation of the I f t s 8 1.4 3 it. tion. 94 DEBATES IN THE CONV0ENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. ABELL —-I move to adjourn till Thursday at 12 o'clock. PRESIDENT —That motion is out of order; it has been put once and lost. Mr. DURELL —-Mr. President, a motion to adjourn is always in order, if it is made fifty times in fifteen minutes. Mr. STOCKER —-Mr. President, I think if you examine Jefferson's Manual, which lies on your desk, you will find that a motion to adjourn is not always in order. It is not in order when the yeas and nays have been called for, when a question has been put, nor when a member has the floor. Mr. HENDERSON —-A motion to adjourn is not always in order. It is not in order when a member has the floor, and you will find that, when it is made in such cases, it is always by his permission. It is not in order, either, when a question is before the House. PRESIDENT-The decision of the chair is, that when a motion to adjourn to a certain specified time has been put and lost once, it cannot be put again on the same day. Mr. HrmLs —Mr. President, I move that t his Convention do now adjourn. [The question was put and the motion carried. ] chief clerk of the bureau of enrollment be fixed at twelve dollars per day, and two translating clerks each ten dollars per day. Mr. CXZABAT-I move to adjourn. Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson, (at the same time)-I wish to give notice that I shall offer a substitute for the first five articles of the report of the Committee on Public Education. If gentlemen wish to force me to relinquish m y purpose by moving an adjournment, when they see me standing with the paper in my hand, they can perhaps do so, but — Mr. CAZABAT —I beg the gentleman's pardon and withdraw my motion. I should not have offered it had I seen him at the time. Mr. Pursell read: Art.-. There shall be elected a superintendent of public education, who shall hold his office for the term of four years. His duties shall be prescribed, and compensation fixed by the General Assembly. Art.-. The General Assembly shall establish free public schools throughout the State for white children, and shall provide for their support by general taxation on property or otherwise, and all moneys so raised or provided shall be distributed to each parish or incorporated city, in proportion to the number of children of such ages as shall be fixed by the General Assembly. Art.-. The General Assembly shall establish free public schools for colored children between the ages of six and sixteen, who shall be taught the primary branches of an English education; the means of support and the distribution shall be the same as provided for other public schools. Art. -. The English language only shall be taught in the primary departments ofn the public schools of this State. Art. —. The General Assembly shall establish an university in New Orleans, and shall have power to pass such laws as may be necessary for its regulation and the promotion of law, medicine, literature and science. Mr. H,R-NAN-I move it lie over. PRESIDENT —-That will be done, of course. Mr. STOcKER —Mr. President, in regard to that substitute, I move that it be printed and laid upon the tables of the members. r The motion was carried.] Mr. SULLIIVAN —I move we adjourn till to-morrow at 12 o'clock. PRESIDEt T —The mot ion is not in order; it has been voted on once and lost. IVEDNESV&Y, April 27th, 1864. [The Convention was called to order at 12 o'clock M., and after prayer by the Rev. Mr. D'Ossy, of the U. S. Christian Commission, the secretary called the roll and the following gentlemen answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Balch, Barrett, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T.. Crozat, Collin, Davies, Dufresne, Decker, Duipaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Hills, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Wells, and Mr. President-59. There being no quorum present the president directed the sergeant-at-arms to procure the attendance of ab sent members. Messrs. Austin, Bromley, Brott, Gastinel, Hire, Howell, Knobloch, Mendiverri, Mon t AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. tion-is thrown into one department, just as in English colleges and those of this country, and there is no weighty reason for departing from this time-honored practice, particularly if the grammar school filly answers its purpose and the higher collegiate classes comprise two courses of study a literary and a scientific one. A collegiate department comprises properly five different branches of human knowledge, to-wit: Those of the philological, historical, strictly philosophical, mathematical and physical science. A knowledge of much of all these branches constiltute what we call liberal education. And it does not only suit all the capacities, but is regarded as necessary for the harmonious development of the mental faculties of the students. The deeper and more abstruse portion cannot be imparted to all, but must be left to the choice of those who have a particular leaning for them, and this may be done, very properly, in the two collegiate courses-of study above mentioned. The splitting into two different departments would not only imperfectly answer the purpose, as it would lead to the neglect of either of them, and would awaken the idea that they are not equally worthy of being embraced. A despot may withhold his favor from the cultivation of the circle of historical science, and frown down upon those who devote their time to what he pleases to call idealogy; he may also countenance the cultivation of the exact science; but a free people, and one that is determined to be free, will do well to embrace, with equal ardor, all the different branches of a liberal education; giving prominence to none, nor divide what, by its very nature, ought to be mixed. The undersigned accordingly proposes that the University should comprise a law department, a medical department and a collegiate department. The committee recommend further: "That the Legislature shall be under no obligations to contribute to the establishment or support of said University by appropriations." If this is meant of the two first faculties or departments, as professional schools, which ought to be self-supportin g, no one will object to it; but a collegiate department cannot be left to its own resources, because it does not impart any knowledge or skill which might be immediately available in life, although it might justly vindicate to itself the production of the material out of which the great statesman, philosopher, lawyer, etc., is to be formed. Similar institutions are liberally endowed all over the world, and even poor but talented youth are aided by stipends in order to secure the best talent to the service of the State and public. If the collegiate department is to be left to itself, one ittes. [S ecretary read the minutes. When he reached the resolu tion of M r. Edwards, tabled yesterday, he was interrupted by] Mr. E. MuRPHY-AMr. President, that resolution was laid on the table yesterday, and under our rules cannot be read again. I move, therefore, that the reading be dispensed with. PRESIDEN',T-Is there any objection to dispensing with reading of the resolution? PRE,SIDE.NT-The reading of the resolution is dispensed with. [The minutes were adopted.] PRESIDENT-The next thing in order is petitions. Are there any petitions? [None.] PRESIDENT —Memorials? Mr. BONZANO-I hold in my hand a memorial from Dr. A. Vallas, who was for some time superintendent of the State Seminary at Alexandria, a gentleman of large experience, and I think the memorial will be found one of interest to the Convention. [Read.] NEW ORLEANS, April 27, 1864. To the honorable president and members of the Constitutional Convention of Louisiana: GENTLE.ME-N-The undersigned begs leave to offer a few remarks on the report of your Committee on Public Education. The report in question is a work that reflects much credit, in general, on the members of the Committee on Public Education, although there are minor points in which it might be perfected and brought nearer to what the public have a right to expect. The committee propose. in their report, that a University shall be established in the city of New Orleans; said University to be composed of four faculties, to-wit: one of law, one of medicine, one of natural sciences and one of letters. The word faculty signitfing the body of teachers, it would be well to replace it by department, which includes teachers and students. The committee recommend a faculty of natural sciences and another of letters. Now. all over the continent of Europe, with the sole exception of France, letters and natural sciences-that is everything that relates to general erudi 95 tamat,.'idontague, Morris, Pursell S., Schroeder, Stocker, Stauffer. Wilson and Beauvais having entered the hall and taken their seats, the president announced that a quorum was present. PRESIDENT —Afr. Secretary, read the min 96 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION o offer a substitute for the report of the Committee on Judiciary. PRESIDENT-The substitute will be in order when the report comes up. Reports of commit t ees. Mr. BoNz.ANo —Mr. President, the Commitlfee on Emancipation is ready to report. of two things will certainly happen. Either it will fail, as other schools have failed un der similar circumstances, or it will be come an aristocratic institution for the ex clusive benefit of the few who are able to pay high fees. The last article of the report of the Com mittee of Public Education relates to the Seminary of learning. The United States have donated to this, as well as to other States, several townships of land for the establishment of a Seminary of learning. Other States have thought to fulfil the in tention of the donor by establishing State Universities with the funds arising from such donation. The people of Louisiana-that is, the dominant party of former times-kept the Seminary apart from the University; and as soon as symptoms of the impending civil war were perceptible, they endeavored to convert it into a -Military Academy, for resisting and defeating the authority of the donor. (See report of the Board of Supervisiors of the State Seminary, 1860.) This plan, indeed, proved abortive, and the Seminary never went beyond company drill, by the self-sacrificing resistance of a few loyal men; but the intention was manifest, and may be easily understood from the report just alluded to, and the act of organization subsequent to it. The past, with its prejudices, with its views and tastes, with its plans and schemes, has rolled down into the abyss of eternity. On the ruins of an almost mediaeval society the edifice of modern civilization is to be' erected. Among the fragments of the past we find a University, without endowment and funds, without a proper object. Have not the disenthralled people of Louisiana a. right to see the two united? Particularly as there is no need any more of a separate institution for the benefit of a higher class of citizens, all differences, all pretensions, having been obliterated by the victorious progress of the armies of the United States. The undersigned, led by these views, begs leave to propose that all the property and revenues of the State Seminary be transferred to the collegiate department of the University, and that the last article of the report of the Committee on Public Education be amended accordingly. Respectfully submitted by A. VALTAS, Phi.D., Late Acting Superintendent and Professor at the State Semtinary of Louisiana. I now move, Mr. President, that a sufficient number of copies be printed for the use of the. Convention, and that the memorial be referred to the Committee on Public Education. I on' hn n etea ntiieo Mr. SULLIVAN —Mr. President, I wish to h ouehs To the president and members of the Con ventionfor the Revision and Amendment of th e wihstsdece on the stau te of Louisiana: Your Committe e, to wh om was referred the subject of Emancipation, respectfully be g leave to report the following ordinance and recommend its adoption: AN ORDINANCE TO ABOLISH SLAcER Y AND INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in Convention assembled, do hereby declare and ordain as follows: Section 1. Slavery and involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, are hereby forever a~bolished and prohibited throughout the State. Sec. 2. The Legislature shall make no law recognizing the right of property in man. Sec. 3. The code of laws, known as the Black Code. and legislation and jurisprudence on the subject of slavery' are hereby declared annulled and abolished. See. 4. No penal laws shall be made against persons of African descent, different fr'om those enacted against white persons. Sec. 5. The Legislature shall, at its -first session under this constitution, enact laws providing for the indenture of minors of African descent, as apprentices, to citizens of the State, on the same terms and conditions as those prescribed, or which may hereafter be prescribed, for the apprenticing of white minlors. Adopted in Convention, at the city of New Orleans, this —-day of-.in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-four, and of the Independence of the United States eighty-eight. M. F. BoNzaNo, Chairman; A. CAZ,A.BT, H. C. EDWARDS, EDMUND GOLDMAN, E. MUTRPH~Y, T. B. SCHROEDER, W. T. STOCKER, R. K. HOWELL. I now move that the report be made the special. order of the day for Saturday.., Mr. AUsTIN —I ask that the report be read by the secretary, in a tone that we can all hear. I have not been able to hear it, and I don't think any gentleman on this side of the house has. t iI AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. to make money; the kind master's interest to preserve an improve his property. But, above all considerations, your com mittee believe that the State has the deepest interest in preserving its safety and forward ing the interests of the white race. With the lights now before this Convention, ema nating from our sister States, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and the Western States generally, with free white labor this State would rise in population, wealth and grand en re but in competitionwith 312,000 negroes, with a natural increase unparalleled in the history of any people, surrounded by mil lions who would make Louisiana their asy lum, the Convention cannot be blind to the fact that a system of peonage or slavery would be established, all inducement fbr white labor overridden, and the safety of the State menaced. Mr. PUaSELL, of Jefferson-Mr. President, I desire to know whether that is a report the secretary is reading, or an argument.' PREsIDENT —It is a minority report. Mr. PU&SEIAL, of Jefferson-It sounds to me more like an argument than like a re port. [The secretary read:] The Convention cannot be insensible to' the already demoralized state of the slave, and the disorganized state of their labor and the terrible havoc of mortality among them; nor should the Convention be ufi mindful of the fact that of all the Northern States that have rid themselves of slavery, not one of them have freed a single slave. They'adopted a system of laws -which pro vided, prospectively, that all children born of slaves within their jurisdiction, after cer tain specified dates, should be held free when they attained a given age. As early as 1774, it was provided by a law in Rhode Island "1that all offspring born of slaves after 1784, should be free." Pennsylvania .in 1780 passed an act declaring "that all Wchildren born of slaves after the passage of the-act free at a given age.," [Stroud's Digest, 7'89.] New York, in 1783, passed a similar act, and the New England States generally-pursued a similar mode of ridding themselves of slavery, by inducing owners to remove their slaves to the Southern — States. Your committee is informed that little if any more than 2000 out of 40,000 votes were cast'in the country parishes, they being the principal slaveholding portions of the State. Your committee has been forced to the conclusion that the adoption of the majority report would be unconstitio.nal, in violation [ The secretary read the report. ] Mr. ABELL-Mr. President. ] hold in m t hand a minority report, which, as a member of that committee, I wish to present to the Convention; and as I do not think that I shall be able to read it so as to be heard all over the house, perhaps it will be as well foer the secfnal removal r ead it at onc e. Mr. FOLEY-dnI move tha t the gentleman presenting it read it himself. T the secretary read.: To the president and members of the Coitvent tion for the Revision and Amendment of the -Constitution of Lozisiava: The undersigned having failed to arrive at the same conclusion with the majo rity of y our committee, begs leave to submit the follovwing, minority report: Your committee would gladly acquiesce in any proposition for the emancipation of slaves in this State, that would be consist ent wither, o n or, the Diges, 78. integrity and safety of the State. the rights of the master, and the future welfare, safet y and happiness of the slave, and their final r emoval from th e State. He could not view as just to the master, honorable to the State, o r adv antageous to the slave, any. proposit ion which has for its object the immediate emancipatio n of the slave without the consent of the master, or a fair compensation fo r his property. The master having acquired a vested right in his property, by virtue of the cu stoms of the country, guaranteed by the constitutions ofthis and the ite adoptates, the mvarious acts of t he Legislature of the s ever al States and the Congress of the Unit ed States, confirmed by numerous decisions of the highest courts in the land., and assented to and acted upon by the wisest statesmen, p-erhaps, of the world, your committee does not believe that this Convention could divest the master of' his property without doing a flagrant injustice. Were he to cons,ider the interest'of the' slave, without reference to the right of the master, or advantage or detriment to the State, it would not be their interest'to' be immediately emancipated. The~ir tendency to idleness. their general ignorance and want of sltill to provide for themselves, would leave them the prey of their vices and dissipation, and of disease and death; and any law that would force them to a different system of labor than is required of the white race, would be a violation of their rights as freeI men. and only a change fr'om the- present system of servitude or slavery to that of another. The inoney-making speculator would be 97 98 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR TUE REVISION and destructive to the best interests of the slave; dishonorable and dangerous to the safety of the State. Your committee, in view of the philantrophy of our Northern brethren, could not deem it just to withhold from them the opportunity of contributing largely to the freedom of the slave. Your committee, therefore, earnestly, recommend the indefinite postponement of any action on the subject until such time as any future Legislature of this State, conjointly with the Congress of the United States, shall provide ways and means to pay all loyal owners for their slaves, and for their permanent removal from the State; and that, in the meantime, the State do take possession of all unclaimed slaves, and hire or employ them to the best advantage, the proceeds of their labor to be paid into the treasury of this State, to be disposed of as the Legislature may direct. Most respectfully submitted. EDMUND ABELI,. Mr. GOLDMAN-Did nobody else sign that report? Mr. HmLs-Mr. President, I move that the reports be printed and made the order of the day for Monday. Mr. STAUFFER-As the order for Monday is already fixed, I amend to Wednesday. Mr. HILLs-I accept the amendment. -[The question was put and carried.] PRESIDENT-Committee on Execetive Department? Mr. FISH-The committee reported yesterday. There is no report to-day. PRESIDENT-Committee on the Judiciary? Mr. SULLIV - -Mr. President, I have some substitutes which I wish to offer to some of the articles of the report of that committee. PRESIDENT-What disposition shall be made of the substitute? Mr. WILSON-Mr. President, I move that it be printed and made the order of the day for Friday. [The motion was put and carried.] PRESIDENt-Committee on Internal Improvement? Mr. GORLINSKI-Progress. PRESIDENT-Schedule? Mr. GRUNEBERG-NO report. PRESIDENT-Ordinance? Mr. SHAw-Progress. PRESIDENT-Enrollment? Mr. THORPE-The committee reports as Resolution allowing one hundred dollars to H. A. Gallup, for services as assistant secretary before the organization of this Convention. Resolution requesting the Sta te librarian to furnish each member with a copy of the Revised Statutes. Resolution fixing the compensation of the members of this Convention, and also appointing a committee of five to fix the salary of the officers and employds of this Convention. Resolution inviting the governor to issue his proclamation to fill a vacancy for a delegate in the Tenth Representative District. PRESID)ENT-What shall be done with the report? Mr. BELL-I move that it be received. PRESIDENT-The proper motion is whether it shall be received and signed by the president. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move that it be received and signed by the president. [The question was put and the motion carried.] PRESIDENT —Committee on Finance? Mr. BROTT-The committee make the fol STATEMENT OF WARRANTS ISSUED AND IP,ID, AND OF THE BALANCE ON HAND OUT OF THE APPROPIRLTION OF $100,000. 1864. April 15, Appropriation........................$100,000 00 " 21, Warrant No. 1, $1440 00 c; s" "c s" 2, 2240 00 s" "; " "3, 1220 00 - -- 90 00 " 22,. " "4, 2891 85 a' " "5, 2049 00 2" " " "6, 510 00 544 1 85 " 23, " "7, 2448 00 " " " " 8, 432 00 " " " " 9, 1620 00 " 25, " "10, 920 00 5420 00-15,761 86 duly enrolled the followin — resolutions, to 'Wit: lowing report: April 26, Bal. on hand in State Treas.... $84,238 15 New Orleans, April 26th, 1864. A true copy from the Warrant Book. L. C. MAURICAU, Warrant Clerk. GEO. F. BROTT, Chairman. PRESIDEI,NT —COMMittee on Printing' Mr. J. PURCEiL-No report. PRFsiDENT-Federal Relations? AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. second reading yet. I would, therefore, ask that they now be call ed for their second reading. Mr. WiLsoN —They were received and adopted before the adoption of Mr. Abell's resolution, which requires three readings, and consequently cannot in any way be affected by it. It seems to me that if this is the way business is to be done here, we are going backward rather than forward. ~ PRESIDENT-The gentleman has a right to make the motion. That point may come up in the debate. PRESIDENT —Committee on Assault of Members?9 Mr. WILSON —No report to-day, Mr. President. PRESIDENT-Unfinished business. Gentlemen will call up their resolutions from yesterday. Mr. Hiris —Mr. President, I call for my resolution of yesterday. [The secretary read:] Resolved, That members of this Convention, now absent without leave, who do not answer to the first roll-call of the secretary, shall forfeit one-half their per diem ibr every day of such absence. Mr. HILLs-Mr. President, I now move the adoption of the resolution. Mr. MONTAMAT —I move to lay it on the table. Mr. THORPE-A- chairman of that committee I made a report a day or two ago which was adopted. I was afterwards informed that it had to be read on three several days. I am not aware how it can be brought up again, nor whether it has been properly adopted; but. if in order, Mr. President, I call for a second reading of that report. Mr. BROTT-I would state, that as a member of that committee, I was necessarily compelled to be absent from some of its sessions, and did not know what the report was. [The secretary read:] The constitution and laws of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land, anything in the constitution and laws of the State to the contrary notwithstanding. Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson-Mr. President, would I be in order to offer a substitute for that. PRESIDENT —Yes. Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson read: The United States is one government, the several States auxiliary thereto with local powers. Mr. FoLEY —I move to lay the resolution on the table. [The question was put and the motion lost.] Mr. SHAw-I move that the substitute be referred to the Committee on Federal Relations. Mr. MONTTANT —Mr. President, I move that the rules be suspended in order to put it upon its passage at once. Mr. HEALY-Mr. President, I move the substitute be referred to the Conimittee on Preamble. Mr. CAZABAT —Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. I do not see how a substitute can be referred to a Committee on a Preamble which has already been reported, received and adopted. Mr. THOMAs-Mr. President, I wish merely to call attention to the fact, that the repo:ts of the committees on the Preamble and on Distribution of Powers are in the same condition as the report of the Committee on Federal Relations, of which Col. Thorpe is chairman. They have been received and adopted, but have not passed through the PRESIDENT-I have not beard the motion seconded yet. Mr. FOrEY-I second the motion of Mr. Hills. Mr. HILLS —MY motion was seconded. [The question was put, and the chair unable to decide, directed a divisio n.] Mr. HrLLS-I call fo r the ayes and nays. Mr. GoLDMAN —The ayes and nays. [One-fifth of the members sustained the call, and the vote was taken, with the following result:, AYEs —Messrs. Austin Balch, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Dufresne, Decker, Dupaty, Edwards, Fish, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Harnan, Heard, Hire, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Seymour, Stocker, Sullivan, Thorpe-41. NAYs-Messrs.'Abell, Ariail, Barrett 99 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Bell, Bonzano, Brott, Cook J. K., Cook T., Collin, Ennis, Foley, Fosdick, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Hills, How ell, Maas, Maurer, Millspaugh, Montague, Murphy E., Poynot, Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Thomas,. WVenck, Wells, Wilson-37.] Mr. M. W. MURPHY-Mr. President, I call up my report of yesterday. [The secretary read:] Resolved, That the compensation of the chief clerk of the Bureau of Enrollment be fixed at twelve dollars per day, and two translating clerks, each ten dollars per day. Mr. MO. —TAMAT-I move that the translating clerks receive eight dollars each per day, and the chief clerk ten dollars per day. Mr. FOSDICK-The resolution was referred to the committee to fix the compensation of members. The committee has not as yet taken the matter under consideration and made a report. Mr. MO.NTA-T-That is the report of the committee. Mr. M. W. MupPH:Y-The only gentleman who objects to it is the gentleman on my right, wh o made the rito the minority report the other day. PRESIDENT-The order of the day. [The secretary read the report of the fommittee on the Mode of Revising the Con stit.dtion. o Mr. HOWELL —Mr. President, I move to strike out in the 3d line the word "twothirds " and insert instead the word " threefourths." Mr. HARNAN —I move that the amendment be laid on the table. [The question was put on Mr. Harnan's motion. The president being unable to decide directed a rising vote, which showed 18 yeas and 42 nays. The motion was therefore lost.] PRESIDENT-The question is on the adop PRESIDENT-I did not hsar you. Mr. CUTLER-I believe that I speak toler ably loud. PRESIDENT —Will some one move a re comideration, in order to allow the gentle - ma n to deb ate the question? ~[A reconsideration was moved and carried.] Mr. CUTLER-My object simply was this, not that I desire to discuss the question at all, but. as ch air man of the committee, I deemed it my duty to ad voca te the report. You all know that this report reads two thirds, and that the change by amendment suggested by the ge ntleman from the Fifth Representative District (Judge Howell) is "three-fourths."' The deliberations of the committee were confined to this material part of the question presented, t hat i s, w hether the people of the State of Louisiana, when it becomes necessary to make a change in the o rganic law, should be detain ed in making that change for a period of years, or whether they should do so at once. According to the const itution of 18 12, it required a great period of time for t he pur pose of revising any particular article of that constitution. There were no inroads made upon the p rovi sions there in contained until 1845. By the action of the Convention of 1845, we find that there was a ch ange, lessening the per iod o f t ime i n which the co nstitution could be revised, and chanUing the mode and m an ne r of revision. Since the constitution of 1845, the re has been no material change. I beli ev e that even the rebel Co ivention of 1861 coincided with t he views ta ken i n 1852 by the eopmmittee that reported on that constitution and made no amendment. Then the subject matter under the consideratio n of the committee, or, rather, the graver portion of it, was the speedy revision of the constitl -, tion. We agreed unanimously that it was certainly proper, under the peculiar and existing circumstances that surround this Convention; under the peculiar circumstances, I say, both military and civil, that surround us, that it might suggest itself to the people of Louisiana, in the short future, that a speedy amendment to some portion of the constitution might be absolutely necessary. tion. Mr. CUTLER —Mr. President [The vote was taken, and the chair decided the amendment carried.] Mfr. CUTLER-Mr. President — PR.ESIIDEi-T —The amendment is adopted. M~Nr. CUTLER-Air. President, I think this is a little too fast. The question should be stated, and then it is open to debate. I rose in time, but was unable to get the attention of the chair. 100 I AND ME OF THE COON'ttTION OF LOtJ A. Hlence, we thought it proper in that com mittee to report to this Convention the pro priety of revising the constitution, or any portion of it therein contained, in as speedy a manner as possible. Therefore, instead of prolonging the term to the June election next following the adjournment of the Leg islature, or to that election which takes place for the election of representatives to the General Assembly, as was the case in the constitution of 1845 or 1852, we thought it proper, in our judgment, to present to the consideration of this Convention a different mode of revision,-that is to say, within sixty days; that an election should take place within ninety days after the adjournment of the Legislature wherein the proposed amendment was made, after giving thirty days' publication to the entire people of the State that an election to that effect should be heltt —giving them fair warning, that they may come up and vote for the proposed amendment or amendments previously voted upon by two-thirds. Now, if you confine it to a three-fourths vote, you go behind the constitution of 1845, to those times when we had just emerged from the Territory of Orleans. and when our legislation was in its dark ages. It struck our minds that it was proper to keep pace with the times, with the progress of the times; and if the great people of Louisiana deemed it necessary to make amendments, that the power be not wrested from their hands, but be given to them within a short period of time. If you leave the question to three-fourths of both Houses, you require such a vote as may destroy the ends and purposes of the provisions. If you refer it to a two-thirds vote, you have over a majority vote, and that is all that could be required by the constituency and the people at large in this State. Twothirds, then, we considered a sufficient vote to settle the question, whether any amendment should be proposed or not, and whether it meets the approbation of this Convention or not, it is for your votes to determine; whether three-fourths of the vote of both Houses, taking into consideration all the circumstances which cause this Convention to act, is absolutely necessary for the pur t pose of making one or more a mend ments to this constitution remains to be seen. I did not feel disposed, as chairman, nor did any members of the committee, to vote simply for a majority; we thought it proper not to reduce to a mere majority, but asked before it was left to the consideration of a vote, fo r at least two-thirds, but when you come to "three-four ths," you come to a vot e th at th e p eople may disapprove. It was the result of our deliberations, that a two-thirds vote was a sufficient vote upon an amendment, when the people could cast their votes for or against. It was upon this consideration, I desire to state to the president, that when a ques tion is stated, it should be announced by the chair that it is open for debate, inasmuch as there is a disposition upon the part of some members to make an effort that might thwart the desires of the people. Now, in conclusion, permit me to say, I am inclined to think that there is but one mode parliamentary in which this report should be presented to this Convention, and that is this: when put upon either reading, it should afterwards be voted upon, and must be voted upon three times in the affirmative before it becomes a law. Mr. HOWELL-I will state that it was with no disposition to oppose the report of any committee that might be presented to this Convention that I offered the amendment. My object was simply to bring to the mind of the Convention the important subject that is now under consideration. I am willing, sir, that every proper means should be adopted to avoid the cumbersome and expensive process of holding conventions to revise and amend the constitution; but in adopting that plan, we should be careful not to go to the other extreme, and open the door of amendment so wide that the people may have to act every year upon some proposed amendment to their organic law. When an event of that kind shall have occurred the republican form of government becomes unsettled, and the institutions of the country unsafe. It is the duty of wise men to guard against any system which may in its tendency produce such a result. It may be, my proposition to amend this report appears to restrict, but I am 1101 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION committee, an amendment may be proposed by the Legislature during the last week of its term, and within sixty days it may become the organic law of the State. It is seldom that the attention of the whole people of the State can be aroused in that time. To secure that, in some respeet, or guard them in some measure, I am of opinion that the requirement of a three-fourths vote in the Legislature will make it so very apparent that the people will be aided at least in their deliberations. Mr. CAZABAT-I seconded the amendment of the gentleman from New Orleans (Judge Howell) which he has so ably discussed. What may have been suitable under the constitution of 1812-'45 and'52 or'61, may be now considered a serious ill and source of mischief to the rights of the people. It. is to be hoped thatthe people will sanction the proceedings and the deliberations of this convention. I have no doubt that every member here is willing and ready to submit the constitution which we are about to revise, to the people, for their approbation or rejection. When once approved by the will and sanction of the people, let it stand there, to be the organic and supreme law of the land. Not a few men, representing private interests, can destroy the liberties of the people again. No, sir, two-thirds is not enough; let it be three-fourths. Let us go back to the constitution of 1812, and see what was done there. Under that constitution, Mr. President, a majority of all the members elected to each House was necessary. Now, if we examine the articles on revisin g the constitution, we perceive under article 140, "Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by three-fifths of the members elected to each House, and approved by the governor," such shall be adopted. inclined to the opinion that if the gentlemen of this Convention will reflect for a time, they will agree with me in the propriety at least of being very careful in adopting a mode of revising the constitution. The Legislature is the creature of the constitution, and when you give the creature power to destroy the creator, you adopt almost an anomaly. I do not contend, sir, that my amendment affects at all the real merits of the report now under consideration. It does not con template prolonging the time for amending the constitution; it only gives the people a guarantee that there shall be some deliberation-some consideration before their fundamental law shall be interfered with, and those familiar with legislation in this or any other State, will bear me out in the statemen t that it is not always difficult to get a vote of two-thirds in any body of a legislative charac ter. The object of putti ng the number at th ree-fourths is simply to effect the proper consideration of every subject before it is subm itted to the people for their adoption. It assumes more of the character of a deliberative assembly, formed and organized for business of that kind, than for mere lawmaking, which may be repealed at any succeeding session. Make it three-fourths, and you then req uire of the representatives of the people to be satisfied that the amendments proposed are required by the demands of the country. Two-thirds is but a small number beyond a majority; and threefourths is but a small number beyond twothirds; but it is a greater number than the majority, and the higher the number you fix upon when you shorten the time, gives a greater guarantee to the people against constant changes in their organic law. It is to avoid these frequent changes that I proposed the amendment, and not to prolong the time. I have no objection to having it done within the time proposed, but would have suggested a longer period. I think amendments to the constitution should be presented under such restrictions as would require deliberation-not only in those who propose them, but give those who pass fin ally upon them an opportunity to consider them also. According to the report of the Now. let o i s go back to 185t. cniAny amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by two-thirds of the memi 102 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. bers elected to each House, etc," shall be adopted. Now sir, shall we contend for a principle which is not in accordance with the spirit of our institutions? I belong with the people, and when this constitution that we are now about to revise, shall be submitted to them-for we must have their approval —for the sake of Louisiana, for the preservation of our liberties now and forever, let it be the organic law of the land, and let it not be amended or changed, until the Legislature is perfectly satisfied that the proposed amendm e nts are required or asked for by.the people of Louisiana. cused for the last twelve years of having endeavored to shackle the people of this State, by what they adopted, was still liberal enough to allow the Legislature to call an election of the people, to pass upon an amendment proposed by a vote of twothirds of the members elected to each HIo use. Her e we are, without having ad opted any of the leading parts of our constitution; without havi n g adopted anything i n relatio n to th e Legislative, Executive or Judiciary Department,-the most important parts of the constitution. Before we know what our constitution is to be, we are so well pleased with our work, that we are a b o ut to fast en i t upon the people by requiring a threefourths vote to submit an amendment to the people. According to the constitution of 1812, no number whatever c ould submit an amendment to the people. According to the constitution of 1845, out of ninety-eight members in the lower Ho use, fifty-ei ght could vote to submit an amend - ment to the pe op le. According to the constit ution of 1852, sixty-six could vote to s ubmit an amendment to the people; but hereafter.f a small and possibly interested portion of the Legislature, amounting to only one-fourth, should they wish, can keep the people of thi s State by'the-rule we a re a bou t to adopt, from makin g a ny ch ange. Wh y should our work stand any firmer than that of our predecessors? Is it b ec a u se we have only ninety-five out of one hundred and fifty members due to th is C onvention, representatives comin g almost exclusively from the city of New Orleans and the parishes on the lower Mississippi; is that any reason why our work should be fastened upon the people hereafter? I look upon this question as one involving a matter of fairness. If any part of our work should prove wanting, let sixtysix out of ninety-eight members propose an amendment and submit it to the people. If a majority of the people of Louisiana then find any portion of our work to be imperfect, let them amend. Why should we make restrictions greater than any convention has deemed necessaryT, always excepting the Convention of 1812. Sir, I hive no doubt that the report of the committee, which has been submitted by my friend, Mr. Cutler, has received that due consideration which he gives to all subjects coming under his consideration, 'and it seems to me, sir, that it is rather a compliment to him, as assistant of that committee, that this is the only change or amendment that we propose to make. The modification, although very slight, means a good deal. It is a trivial modification, but the " three-fourths " vote is an expression of the majesty and will of the people, the other of a minority, and I will, for one, vote against it. Mr. SHAw-'Mr. President, in examining the c onstitution of 1812, f45 and;52, it is plain to be seen that a perceptible progress has been made by the Conventions of this State in liberality, on the question of the amendment of their work. The Convention of 1812 did not seem to want their work amended at all. That constitution could not be amended without calling a Convention at an expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars, to change it in the smallest particular-and the people submitted to great annoyance for the space ofthirty-two or three years on account of the great difficulty of making an alteration. The Convention that sat in 1845 made a constitution, in which they provided that three-ffths of the members elected to both Houses might submit an amendment to the people of this State. In 1852, a Convention which has been ac 10,111 DERBATES IN THE CONENTION- FOR THE REVISION and 1852 sustain the views advocated by Judge Howell. Now, gentlemen, just refer for one moment to those constitutions. By the constitutions of 1812 and 1845 you will see that his propositions and arguments do not agree. The constitution of 1812 does not even require two-thirds, a bare majority is all that is necessary: "When experience shall point out the necessity of amending this constitution, and a majority of all the members elected to each House of the General Assembly shall, within the first twenty days of their stated annual session, concur in passing a law specifying the alterations intended to be made," etc. Now, let us turn to the constitution of 1845: "Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by three-fifths of the members elected to each House." So it is seen that the gentleman argues from one premiss and all that he quotes is against him'. Let us turn now to the constitution of 1852; that convention which has been accused of attempting to fasten its bantling upon the sovereign people in such a manner that it would be impossible to shake off any portion of it: " Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by two-thirds of the members elected to each House, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals with the yeas and nays taken thereon," etc. If it is for the purpose of sustaining the sovereign power in the hands of the people that this Convention is assembled, let us show ourselves as liberal as former conventions ]ave done-let us be as liberal as the convention of 1861, save in the act of that convention when they passed an ordinance seceding from the United States of America. Mr. CUTLER-Mr. Presi dent, if there is no further discussion, I desire mer e ly to mak e a sugg es tion. Mr. THORPE-Mr. Pres ident, I would like to offer an a m endment. Resolved, That the final v ot e upon the sec tion pr ovi ding for t he revising or amend ing the ot le uo the onstitution, lie upon the table un til all articles preced ing it in order be adopted. I should like to know, Mr. President, what k ind o f constitution we iare to have, before w e pr ovid e for its revision and amendment. Mr. PuRSELL, of Jefferson-I move a suspension of the r ules, in ord er that the resodlution may be adopted at once. PRESIDENT-Neither a mendment n or s uspension of the rules, are neces sar y. The proper motion would be for the report to lie over on its t hird read ing until the other report s ar e a cte d on. Mr. CUTLER-The prop er mode, I consider, w ould b e to e nd the discussion on th e me rit s no w; but I do not desir e to argue the question much further. I desire only to trouble the Convention for a moment with a few remarks. I see no objection to the remarks of my friend, Judge Howell, in the m ass. Th e question is merely whether t he people are s overeign. He desires that the Con vention now, as a matter of policy, shall fix the number at threefour t hs of both Houses of the General Assembly, who shall propos e an d adopt an amendment be fore it shall be submitted to the people. There i s no little inconsistency in this proposition if it is to be understood that the people are the sovereign power of the State. You most certainly abridge their rights by requiring three-fourths of the members of both Houses of the General Assembly'to adopt an amendment before it can be submitted to them. If you assume that the sovereignty is in the people, a mere majority'would be sufficient to send the amendment to the people themselves. As for my learned friend from Rapides, with his gushing eloquence and his profound knowledge of constitutions, he has laid down propositions and introduced argu-, merit in which he contradicts himself: He argues that the constitutions of 1812, 1845 I am not, how ever, on e of th ose who would look only to former constitutions of the State. Experience, not only in Louisiana, but in other States, has been such as to bear out the report of this committee. If you make it necessary to obtain, before an amendment can go to the people, a 104 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. be ordered by said Legislature, and held within ninety days after the adjournment of the same, and after thirty day's publication according to law; and if a majority of the voters at said election shall approve and ratify such amendment-or amendments, the same shall become a part of the constitution." three4ourths vote of both Houses of the General Assembly, you abridge the rights of the people. You destroy, to a certain extent, their sovereignty. Let us, then, in adopting this constitution, bear in mind t h at the sovereign power is in t he people. and should never be abridged; that instead of prolonging the time between the adoption of a simple amendment to the constitution by the General Assembly avd its submission to the people, we act up to the spirit of the age, and adopt measures that will be con sonant with the rights of the people, and at the same time we should do well to remem ber that we are in an anomolous position; we are not exactly in a state of peace. It is, in my opinion', a state quasi civil and quasi military. There is only a part of the State within the Fedeial lines; the city of New Orleans and the several parishes below, on the river, with a few others that are represented here. We are a redeemed people; the sword, the bayonet and the cannon protect us. It may be then that we are not angels, and such being the case, the laws which we promulgate may be expected to be fallible. But let us show that we are men disposed to do justly, honestly and fairly; that we are willing to submit to the will of the people, without abridging their rights. You will find that the report is in perfect harmony with the spirit of the age and of the times. It does not propose anything that is inconsistant with the genius and spirit of the people. It is they whose rights are to be preserved by the constitution which we should adopt. Their wishes ought to be observed, and we should remember that our action in this Convention ought to be subservient to the will of the people. Its provisions are simple, and it provides for speedy and prompt action:, Gentlemen, the time will come-God grant that it may come soon-when the country will be at peace; when the circumstances that surround us will have changed, and it may be that the people of Louisiana will then think proper to change some arti cle of the constitution. If it be so, let them have the power to act upon it whenever an amendment -shall have been adopted by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of the Geneneral Assembly. Let it go forth to' the sovereign people of the State, and let it not be said that the Convention has attempted. to fasten irrevocably-or with means of amendment which will require two or three years to change it in any particular-its work upon the people of the State. Let such a mode of amendment be adopted as can be effected within a reasonable time. Are not the amendments as provided for in the report of the committee to be submitted to the people Z Where, then, lies the danger to republican institutions in their adoption? "If more than one amendment be submitted at a time, they shall be submitted in such manner and form that the people may vote for or against each amendment separately."' Mr. President, I do not oppose this amendment, because I believe that the report of .the committee is perfect and incapable of amendment. I am willing to hear the arguments presented on both sides, and if it can be shown that there is anything improper in it; that this report, in its present form, is not the best that can be devised, and if. any improvement can be suggested, then I shall offer no objections; but the tendency of the amendment proposed is to abridge th e rights and power of the sovereign people,,and therefore I oppose it. Mr. AnELL-Mr. President, I do not rise to make a speech on this question; I think it has been fully discussed. As I have sometimes been governed by a precedent, I shall " Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by two-thirds of the members elected to each House, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals with the yeas and nays taken thereon. Such proposed amendment or amendments shall be submitted to the people at an election to 14 105 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION a sufficient safeguard. A Legislature assembled in January had to adjourn within sixty days. Their amendments were proposed, and if the general election occurred that fall, the people passed upon them, but they had to be submitted at the next general election, and sometimes we had a term of the Legislature-Vhen the general election did not succeed the adjournment, so the people had ample opportunity to deliberate on these matters and consider the importance and necessity of the proposed amendments. Their attention would be directed to them, and by the time the election came on they were prepared to pass definitely upon them; but by the amendment adopted by the committee, it can all be done within ninety days of the time that amendment is proposed. An amendment may be offered by the Legislature within three days of its adjournment and passed on by a two-thirds vote, and it is submitted to the people and made a part of the constitution within ninety days. Now, I ask, if the attention of the people in every part of this State will in all probability be brought to properly consider the importance and bearings of all the amendments that may be proposed with that short space of time? In this Convention, where we have nothing else to do, we will probably require ninety days before we will get through w ith th is matter; and are we to suggest a plan by which politicians, and not the people, may hurry through amendments to the constituitiot in such' rapid facility as to defeat entirely the virtue of fundamental law? I beg the gentlemen to consider these matters before they vote. Mr. THORrE —I believe my. motion is in order. [The motion was read.] Mr. BELL —I move to suspend the rules for its adoption. PRESID)ENT-I will state to the Convention what the chair considers to be the parliamentary rule in this matter. A bill may be adopted and amendments offered at either reading; at the close the question comes up: " Shall it be read again? shall the bill be read a second time?" and on the second reading: " Shall it be read the third time?7 although in modern practice it is usual to leave amendments, for facility in business, in this case be gover n ed by pr ecedent in casting my vote. I n the constitution of t he Un ited States I find this language: " Wh eneve r two-thirds of the members of both Houses shall deem it necessary to propose an amendment to the constitution, or upon the application of two-thirds of the Legislatures"-in both cases requiring the c oncurrence of the House and Sen ate and the concurrence of the Legislature, I think is a v ery g o o d precedent to govern any vote in this matter. Mtr. HOWELL-I believe, as the m over of the amendment, I hav e a r ight t o clos e the deb ate, not that I des i re to take the time of the Convention, but wish to say simply there has been some misrepresentation of my attempted argument. Itis not the object of the proposed amendment to restrict the pow er of t he p eople at all; it is rather to restric t the facility of the Legislature in acting upon this matter. I believe, sir, that too great facility in amending the fundamental law of the country is injurious, and I do not believe, if the amendment proposed is adopted, that the rights of the people will be restricted one iota. The people have a right to call a convention at any time to revise the constitution, notwithstanding; and, as a proof of that, I would ask the gentleman to inform me how many amendments have ever yet been adopted by means of the Legislature? My only motive for presenting this amendment is in consideration of the shortness of the time fixed in the report for making any changes. In 1812 it required an enormous amount of formality before an amendment could be made to the constitution, otherwise than by calling a convention. In the constitution of 1845, when the Legislature had to propose an amendment, it had in the succeeding general election to be submitted to the people, and then come back to the~Legislature, and if adopted by them, suobmiTted a second time to the people. In 1852 the constitution required a vote of two-thirds of the Legislature, and the proposed amendment had to be submitted to the people at the next election, and published in every parish in the State for three months preceding that election. That was 106 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. rected the secretary to read the minutes of the previous day's proceedings. The substitute of Mr. Pursell to the report of the Committee on Federal Relations was read thus: "The United States are one government. The several States auxiliary thereto, with local powers.',] Mr. S. PURSEILL-Mr. Secretary, the substitute is "-is" one government, ilot "are." SECRETARY-I read it as it was written, but will make the correction. [The secretary finished the reading, and the minutes were adopted without further correction.] PESIDENT-Are there a n y pe titions? [None.] PRESiDENT-Memorials then are in order. Mr. GOLDMAN-, M r. President, I have a memo ria l which I wish to read to the Converition. [ A voi ce - Louder! " ] Mr. President, I am speaking as loud as my voice w ill permit. [ Several voices"Louder! We can't hear."] Mr. President, I wAs h you would keep or de r here, and not interrupt a man when he is speaking. Shall I be permitted, Mr. President, to read the memorial? PRESIDENT —The gentleman will proceed with his memorial. [Mr. Goldman proceeded to read:] The present war-which must eventually terminate in the triumph of the nation over the rebellious States-opens a new epoch in our national history. The Federal constituition is not only to be re-established over the entire nation, as the supreme law of the land, but the powers of which it has been stripped, from time to time, by the aggressive spirit embodied in the pernicious doctrine of " State Rights," must be re-asserted, maintained and enforced. Our happiness and safety require that, hereafter, the fundamental law of the nation shall absolutely prevail, " anything in the constitution and laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." The constitution gives to the national Congress the exclusive power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof, and to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution these powers. The constitution says: No State shall coin money, emit bills of credit, make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts." The obvious meaning of these provisions is, that with the United States alone rests the power of authorizing the bills and to the third reading. If, on putting the question, "shall the bill be read the third time?" the Convention decides it shall not, that puts an end to the bill, unless otherwise disposed of. The resolution offered is not an amendment, but it is for the disposition of the bill, and will come up when the question is put: " Shall the bill be read the third time?" The question now is on the amendment of substituting "threefourths" for "two-thirds." [The question was put and declared lost. It was moved and seconded that the report be adopted and. lie over.] Mr. CUTLER-It should not be adopted until the constitution, as a body, is adopted. The mode of revising the constitution ought not to pass as part of the organic law until we know what the law is, and therefore I accept the proposition to lie over. [The resolution to accept the report was then carried.] Mra HARN. i- I move the Convention adjourn. [The motion was seconded and carried.] THURSDAY, April 28, 1864. [At five minutes past 12 o'clock the president called the Convention to order, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by Rev. Mr. Strong. The secretary called the roll, and only sixty-eight gentlemen answered to their names. After waiting till twenty minutes past 12, the following gentlemen having answered to their names, viz: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bai ley, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano,. Bromley, Brott, Burke, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T.. Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Durell, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman. Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanaghl Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Mcndiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S.. Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Wells, Duke, Decker-76, The chair announced a quorum and di 107 I DEBATES IN. THE CONVENTION FOR THIE REVISION The pretext urged at the time of their suspension of specie payments; of having been coerced into this act of dishonesty, has been long since disproved. They themselves, no doubt, suggested the scheme to the rebel government, and by its adoption, gave that government what it could not else have had-a currency. By this course they made for the time inordinate profits, but with corresponding losses to the suffering people, who conferred on them their privileges and who trusted them. These institutions, acting thus in bad faith, conferred on the rebel government a power which alone enabled them to protract the war to the present day. Considering then —lst. That as the Federal government, and not any State government, has the power to establish baiks or to create banking corporations with authority to issue bills of credit; 2d. That the Federal government, in the exercise of its rights, has created a banking system free from all the objections inherent in the State bank system; 3d. That the banks of this State, having by their infidelity to the people and the nation, their dishonest and treasonable action, forfeited all claims, moral or legal, on our consideration; - Be it Resolved, That banking corporations, underanfoc.o the a uthority of the State, are prohibited, and that those banks which are doing banking business at present, or have done so hitherto, are hereby forbidden to continue such business. notes to circulate as mon ey, and tha t it is one of the powers which the States are prohibited from e aterc i sing. This is the vi ew of the acknowledged auth orities on constitutional interpretation nre tin. Therefore, the system of State banking is, and has been, a gross and palpable usurpation by the States of a p ow er exclusi vel y g ra nted to the n ation. The State banking system, thu s l awlessly m ai n tain ed, has been fraught wi th mor e evil to the m oral and material interests of the nation than all other causes together. Were it possible to compute the loss which the industry o f the nation ha s s ustain ed during the la st seventy-five y ears' by the rates of discount and exchange and the failure of State banks, the sr rm total woulad be enough to pay the debt created by the present war. But i it is not only the loss of money with whic h the industry of the nation may justly charge th is system. It has inflictedeinjury on th e mo rals of the nation. Thus every consideration should bring the people to the determination to put an end to State banking, at once and forever. The national government has removed-every obstacl e i n the way of carrying this out. The plea that the w ants of commerce imperatively demanded a paper circulation has no longer any force. By/ the act of Congress entitled "An act to provide a national currency, secured by a pledge of United States stocks and to provide, for the eirculation and redemption thereof, " approved February 25th, 1863, a system of banking is established which will meet all the wants of trade and commerce in every portion of our country, by an issue of paper money based on the national debt-a system that will free us from the evils of discounts, exchanges and failures, and put an end to the favoritism and partial dealings of the State,bank system, which it is designed to supercede. The banks now in this State have no legal existence. By the provisions of the constitttion of 1852 and the laws of the State, under whlch these banks were created, they have all forfeited their charters. By the pre-eminent part they all took in promoting the rebellion, there can be no doubt that all their property is confiscable to the United States. Those managing and chiefly interested in them, were, and still are, the most influential and inveterate of rebels. The constitution and laws of the State made their refusal at any time, to redeem their notes in gold or silver, ipso facto a forfeiture of their charters. Although those interested may say that the legal formalities have not been carried out to give judieial effect to the forfeiture. we can, and I trust will, pronounce the merited sentence of death upon these faithless banks. Mr. BiLCH-Mr. President, I could not hear a word that the gentleman has said. I shall move his expulsion on the ground that he cannot speak the English language. Mr. DAvIES —I move that the memorial be read by the secretary. PRESIDENT-I would ask the gentleman-if this is a memorial signed by himself. Mr. GOLD.Mv-It is. PRESIDENT —A petition or memorial cannot be signed by a member. Mr. GOL)DMA,N -It is a memorial and a resolution. PRESIDENT-Mr. Secretary, pass it back to the gentleman. Mr. HIENDERSoN-i-Mr. President, I have an amen dment to the report of the Committee on the Judiciary, which I wish to offer. PR.ESIDNT —I cannot hear what the gentleman says, Mr. HE\.DE~RiO.o —I wish to offer an amendment to the report of the Committee on the Judiciary Department at the proper 108 EDi'4U.\'D GOLD.NIAN. AND AME T OF THE CGONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. time, but do not know whether this is the proper time or not. PRESIDE.'rT-It cannot be offered until after resolutions have been called for. PREs IDENT-Res ol utions? Mr. HENDERSOp-I o ffe r my am en d ment as a resolution. Mr. GOLDMAN-M r. President, I call for the reading of my resolution. I sent it up to the secre tary. PRESIDEm.T —(To Mr. G oldman.) You are not in order. A gentleman has the floor. [Mr. H Iend erson read:]l An amendment to.-the report of the Committee on the Judiciary Department: Art. 21. The Supre me Court, except in cas es h ereafter provided, shall have appellate jurisdiction only, both as to law and fact with such exceptions and under such regulations as the Legislature shall make, w hich jur isdict ion shall ext end to all cases when the matter in dispute shall exceed three hundred dollars, exclusive of interests; to all cases in which the constitutionality or legality of any tax, toll or impost whatsoever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation, shall be in contestation, and to all criminal cases. Mr. GOLDmAN —I call now for the reading ofmy preamble and resolution; it contained a resolution, and the memorial was merely a preamble. ? Mr. BALCH-I move that it be laid on {he table. Mr. DAIVIES-Mr. President, I move that it be read by the secretary. PRESIDENT-The secretary informs me that he is unable to read the gentleman's hand writing. Mr. GOLDMA~-i-I will read it myself. [Re-read the resolution constituting the latter portion of his memorial.] Mr. MONTAMAT-Mr. President, I move to lay the resolution on the table. PRESIDENT-It lies over. Mr. G(;RUEBERG-Mr. President, I desire to offer a resolution: Whereas, The constitutional Convention of the State of Louisiana has been called principally to decide on the abolition of slavery in this State; whereas, the adoption of this measure, in whatever manner or form, will necessarily require great modifications in all parts of the organic law of the State; whereas, for these reasons this Convention cannot or ought not to come to a final de cision on the reports of any of the standing committees on constitutional amendments, before voting on emancipation;'and, whereas, the question of emancipation being the most important of all, requires the longest and most mature deliberation of this assembly; Be it therefore Resolved, That this Conven tion will taae in consideration, first, the re ports of all the standing committees on constitutional amendments, with substitutes and amendments thereto, except the report of the Committee on Emancipation, but they shall not pass further than a second reading, that then the report of the Committee on Emancipation shall be taken up, and be then regularly passed to a final vote; and that afterwards the reports of all the other standing committees shall pass to their third reading and to a final vote thereon; And moreover, Resolved, That this Conven tion shall only adjourn from day to day until the reports of all the standing com mittees on constitutional amendments, ex cept that of emancipation, shall have passed a second reading. PRESIDENT-If there are no further resoli tions, I will call for reports of standing committees. Committee on Legislative De partment. Mr. FOSDIcK-Will be prepared to report to-morrow. PRESIDENT-Executive Department. Mr.. FiSH —No r eport. PRESrDENT-Internial Improvement. Mr. GOrLLINSKI Not ready to report. PRESIDENT-Schedule. IMr. GRUtlEBERG-No re port. PRESIDENT-Ordinanee. Mr. SHAw-Progress. PRESIDENT —Enrollment. Mr. MILLSPAUGH-On behalf of Colonel Thorpe, chairman of the Committee on Enrollment, I report the following acts enrolled and ready for the president's signature, viz.: A resolution reqesting the governor to issue his proclamation for an election of a delegate from the'Tenth Representative District of the Parish of New Orleans. A resolution relative to Powers's statue of Washington. A resolution requesting State auditor to furnish the Convention with a statement showing the receipts and expenditures, etc., under the administration of Governor Shepley. Mr. BELLIZ move that the report be received and the acts signed by the president. Mr. Befell —What ix the nature f the 10,9 . 11 0 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION proclamation? Read the resolution —I want to know what the proclamation is? PRESIDENT-If the gentleman had kept up with the proceedings of'the House, he would have known the nature of the proclamation. Mr. STOCKER-The call for the reading of the resolution at this moment is not in order. These resolutions have been duly passed and are now presented merely for the signature of the president, and no member, under these circumstances, has a right to demand their reading; I therefore move that the reading of the resolution be dispensed with. PRESIDENT-The call for the reading of the resolution is unprecedented, but the chair will do anything to accommodate the gentleman. I shall put the question. The question is, shall the reading of the resolution be dispensed with. [The vote was taken and the motion to dispense with the reading was carried.] PRESIDEN-Committee on Printing. tN o report.] PRESIDENT-Expenses. PURSELL, of Jefferson- No report. PRESIDENT-Statue of Washington. Mr. SULLIVAN-Mr. Pres ident, the committee i s r eady to report. [Read.] To the honorable the president and mimers composingn the stiutional Convention of the S tate of Louisiana: GENTLEMEN-We, the undersigned delegates, appointed to correspond with and request of the au thorities at Washington, the return of Powers's grand statu e of Wa shington, taken as a trophy from Baton Rouge, and now placed in the Patent Office in Washington, Beg leave most respectfully to report to this Convention that according to the resolution passed we have addressed a communication to the Hon. E. M. Stanton, secretary of war, asking and requesting that the statue be restored to the State of Louisjana. Mr. BROTT-Mr. President, you have not called upon the Committee on Finance. Mr. M. W. MURPHY (at the same time) — Mr. President, I have a report: To the president and members of the Conveni tion for the Revision and Amendment of the Constitution of Louisiana: The Committee on Compensation of officers and employds of this Convention beg leave to report that, in their opinion, the chief enrolling clerk should receive ten dollars per day, and the two translating clerks each eight dollars per day. Mr. FOLEY-Mr. President, I move that the report be received and adopted. [The question was put and the motion adopted.] Mr. BROTT-On behalf of the Finance Committee, Mr. President, I wish to make a partial report. We have prese nted to us, from day to da y, n umer ous bi lls th at have been befor e the Convention, on contingent expen ses, and upon e xamin atio n'we find that the re is no appropriation, except the appropriation of one hundred thousand dollars, which appears to have been appropriated for a specific purpose-for paying the mileage and per die m o f the members, officers and employds of the C onvention. I theref ore, in order to obviate this difficulty, desire to submit a motion that the Committee on E xpenses be instr wcted to make an e stimate of the am ount of funds the y are likely to require, and prepare a bill for an appr opri a tion to meet it. Mr. Be LCH-I wish to submit a motion that will solve all these difficulties. It is parliamentary, notwithstanding the objections of the gentleman from New York. When a matter has been once decided by a Convention that it cannot be brought up again during the session. We have already adopted a resolution making an appropriation for the payment of the mileage and per diem of the members and officers of this Convention, and have no right to adopt it again. Mr. STOCKER-.4r. President, my recollection is that the appropriation was for the payment of contingent expenses as well as for the payment of the mileage and per diem of the members. Mr. MONT~,.q~T —The resolution has been enrolled. I presented it myself;~ it was for JOHN SULLIVAN, Chairman. JAMES ENt, YOUNG BURKE, J. H. STINER. Mr. BELL-I move that the report be received. [The motion was put and carried.] PRESIDENT-Unfinished business. 110 #1 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two wit nesses to the same overt act, or his own con fession in open court. Art. 3. The Legislature shall have power to declare the punishment of treason; but no attainder of treason shall work corrup tion of blood or forfeiture, except during the life of the person attainted. Art. 4. Every person shall be disqualified from holding any office of trust or profit, in this State, and shall be excluded from the right of suffrage, who shall have been con victed of treason, perjury, forgery, bribery, or other crimes or misdemeanors. Art. 5. All penalties shall be proportioned to the nattwe of the offence. Art. 6. The privilege of free suffrage shall be supported. by laws regulating elections, and prohibiting, under adequate penalties, all undue influence thereon from power, bribery, tumult. or other improper prac tice. Art. 7. No money shall be drawn from the treasury but in pursuance of specific appro priation made by law, nor shall any appro priation of money be made for a longer term than two years. A regular statement and account of the receipts and expendi tures of all public moneys shall be published annually, in such manner as shall be pre scribed by law. Art. 8. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly to pass such laws as may be proper and necessary to decide differences of arbitration. Art. 9. All civil officers for the State at large shall reside within the State, and all district or parish officers within their dis tricts or parishes, and shall keep their offices at such places therein as may be required by law. Art. 10. All civil officers; except the governor, and judges of the Supreme and Inferior Courts, shall be removable by an address of two-thirds of the members of both Houses, except those the removal of whom has been otherwise provided for by this constitution. Art. 11. In all elections by the people, the vote shall be taken by ballot, and in all elections by the Senate and House of Representatives, jointly or separately, the vote shall be given viva voce. ~ Art. 12. No member of Congress, nor person holding or exercising any office of trust or profit under the United States, or either of them, or any foreign power, shall be eligible as a member of the General Assembly, or hold or exercise any office of trust or profit under the State. Art. 13. None but citizens of the United States shall be appointed to any office of trust or. profit or be employed on the public corks in this State, providing the same be a special purpose-the payment of the members and officers of this Convention. I ask the secretary to read the resolution. [The resolution was read by the secretary.] Mr. BROTT-I move that the Committee on Contingent Expenses be instructed to make an estimate of the probable amount they will require, and.prepare a bill to cover contingent expenses. Mr. PLOWELL, of Jefferson-Mr. President, I wish to explain. PRESIDENT-There is no motion before the House. Mr. PP-RSELL-Whether there is or not, I think an explanation is certainly due to the House from the Committee on Expenses. PRESIDENT-Debate is out of order unless there is a motion before the House. Mr. PRE SIELL-I desire only to s ay f urther, that the Committee on Expenses have simply approved bills, leaving it to the gentlemen of the Finance Committee to order them paid out of the appropriation, or not, as they saw proper. PRESIDENT-The special order of the day is next in order. Mr. BRoTT-My motion is in order, Mr. President. PRESIDENT-It was not seconded. Mr. BE.AUVAIS-I seconded it, Mr. Presi dent. Mr. STOCKER-I seconded it. PRESIDENTX-Very well; it lies over one day under the rules. The next business is -the order of the day-the report of the Committee on General Provisions. Read it, Mr. Secretary. [The secretary read the following:] REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON GENERAL PRO VISIONS. Article.1. Members of the General Assembly, and all officers, before they enter upon the duties of their offices, shall take the following oath or affirmation: "1 I (A B) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution and laws of the United States and of this State, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me as, according to the best of m< abilities and understanding, so help me, God."7 Art. 2. Treason against the State shall consist only in levying war against it, or in ill DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVUPON of such companies, by subscription of stock or loan in money or public bonds; but any aid thus granted shall be paid to the company only in the same proportions as the remainder of the capital shall be actually paid in by the stockholders of the company; and, in case of loan, such adequate security shall be required as to the Legislature may seem proper. No corporation or individual association, receiving the aid of the State as herein provided, shall possess banking or discounting privileges. Art. 24. No liability shall be contracted by the State as above mentioned, unless the same be authorized by some law for some, single object or work, to be distinctly specified therein, which shall be passed by a majority of the members elected to both Houses of the Geheral Assembly, and the aggregate amount of debts and liabilities incurred under this and the preceding article shall never, at any one time, exceed eight millions of dollars. Art. 25. Whenever the Legislature shall contract a debt exceeding in amount the sum of one hundred thousand dollars, unless in case of war to repel invasion or suppress insurrection, they shall, in the law creating the debt, provide adequate ways and means for the payment of the current interest and of the principal when the same shall become due. And the said law shall be irrepealable until principal and interest are fully paid and discharged, or unless the repealing law contains some other adequate provision for the payment of the principal and interest of the debt. Art. 26. The Legislature shall provide by law for all change of venue in civil and criminal cases. Art. 27. No lottery shall be authorized by this State, and the buying and selling of lottery tickets within the State is prohibited. Art. 28. No divorce shall be granted by the Legislature. 'Art. 29. Every law enacted by the Legislature shall embrace but one object, and that shall be expressed in the title. Art. 30. No law shall be revived or amended by reference to its title; bvt in such case the act revived or section amended, shall be re-enacted and published at length. * Art. 31. The Legislature shall never adopt any system or code of laws by general reference to such system or code of laws, but in all cases shall specify the seve ral provisions of the laws it may enact. Art. 32. Corporations with discounting privileges, may be either created by special acts or framed under general laws. But no corporation or individual shall have the privilege of issuing notes or bills except those Which are already chartered. Art. 33. In case of the insolvency of any paid from the public funds' except the gompensation be less than nine hundred dollars ($900) per annum. Art. 14. The laws, public records, and th e j udicial and legislativ e w ritte n procee d ings of the State, shall be promulgated, p reserved, and conducted in the language in which the constitution of the Un ited States is written. Art. 15. That no power of suspending the laws shall be exercised, unles s by authority of the Legislature. Art. 16. Prosecu tion s shall be by indictment or information. The. accused shall have a speedy public trial by an impartial jury of the paris h in w hich the offence shall have been committed. He shall not be compelled to give evidence against himself; he shallhave th e right of being he ar d by himself or counsel; he shall hane the right of meeting the witnesses face to face, and shall have compulsor y process for obtaining Witnesses in his f avo r; h e shall not be twice p ut in jeopardy for the same offene. Art. 17. All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless for capital offences, wh ere t he proof is evident or the prestmption great, and the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases o f rebell ion or inva sion t he public safet my may requir e it. Art. 18. Excessive bail shall not be required; excessive fines shall not be imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Art. 19. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrant shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. Art. 20. No ex-post tacto law, nor any law impairing the obligations of contracts, shall be passed, nor vested rights be divested, unless for purposes of public utility, and for adequate compensation previously made. Art. 21. That all courts shall be open, and any person, for any injury done him, in his lands,. goods, person or reputation, shall have remedy by due course of law, and right and justice administered without' denial or unreasonable delay. Art. 22. The press shall be free; every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects; being responsible for an abuse of this liberty. Art. 23. The Legislature shall have power to grant aid to companies or associations of individuals, formed for the exclusive purpose of making works of internal improvement, wholly or partially within the State, to the extent only of one-fifth of the capital' 112 AND AMENDMENT OF THEI CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. bank or banking association, the bill hold- is an amendment to that report in order ers thereof shall be entitled to preference now? in payment over all other creditors of such PRESIDENT —NO, sir; not on the first readbank or association. T s ton h t read Art. 34. No person shall hold or exercise ing. The question is shall it be read a at the same time, more than one civil office second time? of trust or profit, except that of justice of Mr. HIARNAN-I move that it be read a the peace. Art. 35. Taxation shall be equal and second time. uniform throughout the State. All proper- Mr. CUTLER —Mr. President, I would move ty on which taxes may be levied in this that it be postponed and taken up in its State, shall be taxed in proportion to its order, as was the report of the Committee value, to be ascertained as directed by law. No one species of property shall be taxed on the Mode of Revising the Constitution. higher than another species of property of PRESIDENT —There has been no proposiequal value, on which taxes shall be levied; tion to read a second time. the Legislature shall have power to levy an Mr. CUTLER-I move that the second and income tax, and to tax all persons pursuing third reading be postpned to come up in any occupation, trade or profession. s Art. 36. The citizens of the city of New its regular order, after the reports precedOrleans shall have the right of appointing ing it have been adopted. the several public officers necessary for the [The motion was put and carried.] administration of the police of the said city, PEIDENT-It goes over to a day unsetpursuant to the mode of election which shall be prescribed by the Legislature; tled. Provided, That the mayor and recorder [Secretary read the report of the Comshall be ineligible to a seat in the General mittee on Federal Relations viz: Assembly, and the mayor and recorders Assebly,and he ayorand ecorers The constitution and laws of the United shall be commissioned by the governor as The constathutoneand law of the Unted justices of the peace, and the Legislature States are the supreme law of the land, may vest in them such criminal jurisdiction anything in the constitution and laws of this as may be necessary for the punishment of State, notwithstanding. minor crimes and offences. Mr. MONTAGUE-Mr. President Art. 37. The Legislature may provide by Mr. BRIOTT-Mr. President — law in what case officers shall continue to PRESIDENT —The gentlemen are out of perform the duties of their offices until their successors shall have been inducted into order office. Mr. MONTAGUE-Mr. President, I merely Art. 38. The Legislature shall have pow- wish to correct what appears to be an error er to extend this constitution and the juris- of the printer —the report should read anydiction of this State over any territory th acquired by compact with any State, or g the laws of ths State to the with the United States, the same being done contrary notwithstanding. It will be perby consent of the United States. ceived that the words "to the contrary," Art. 39. None of the lands granted by have been left out by the printer. Congress to the State of Louisiana for building or constructing the necessary levees PRESIDENT-Howsthat,Mr.Seretar? and drains, to reclaim the swamp and over- ASSISTANT SECRETARY MURPHY-[To the flowed lands in the State, shall be diverted president] —There is no error. The printed from the purposes for which they were report is an exact copy of the written one. granted. granted. ~~~~~~~Mr. BROTT —Is it in order now for me to Art. 40. The Legislature shall pass no Mr BROTT-I it in order now for me to law excluding citizens of this State from offer my minority report? office for not being conversant with any PRESIDEN.T —No. language except that in which the constitu- Mr. BROTT-Will the president state why? tion of the United States is written. I Respectfully submitted, PRESIDENT —Because the report is not W. D. MANN, Chairman. before the House. The gentleman will ERNEST WENCK, have due notice when it is in order. There JOHN FOLEY, is no error in the report. The question will J. K. COOK, JOHN BUcKLEY, JR., be upon its adoption; this is the third read GEO. GEIER, ing. IId MAAES Mr. FOLE.Y-I move that it be adopted. Mr. PURSELL, of Jefferson-Mr. President, PRESIDENT —It is open to debate. [To 15 113 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THI REVISION of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance shall remain in force, and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed." Therefore, Resolved, That we, the representatives of the people of this State in Convention assembled, do hereby expunge from the records said ordinance of secession. We repudiate the asserted right of that convention to pass any ordinance to imperil the jurisdiction of the general government in rights not reserved to the State, as a political heresy, directly instigating and promoting treason, civil war, and the end of all stable government. Resolved, That the alleged reasons of the political leaders of this State in justification for this act of treason and rebellion, among which were the imperfect execution o f the fugitive slve e law, the personal riberty laws passed by several of the non-slaveholding States, and the election by the people of a pres ident no t thei r choice, we declare these allegedWwro n gs a s imaginary, not founded in fact; an d further, that every administration of the Federal gover nment has watche d with a zealous care the rights of each State, and have on all occasions shown its fidelity tQ the constitution of the country. Resolved, Th at we recognize the constitution of the United States as the supreme law of the land, that all powers delegated by the constitution to the general government belong to the nation and cannot be resumed again at pleasure. Resolved, That we declare that the rebellion now existing against the government of the United States is unjustifiable, without a parallel in the history of nations. Unlike our fathers of the Revolution, they make no declaration of their alleged wrongs, but like Macbeth, while enjoying the emoluments of office, entrusted with power, they stab their friends; blut, unlike him, they ask "to be let alone," that they may accomplish this most wicked tragedy. Resolved, That we hail as friends' to the loyal people of this State the Federal army and navy, who have imperilled their lives to restore to us our political rights and, our free constitution, and when their arms are triumphant, our State will again march on in a degree of prosperity never before reached in her history. Mr. Brott]-Now you are in order with your minority report. [Mr. Brott read:] Whereas, The constitution of the United States, f ramed by the heroes of the revolu tion, who wer e g reatly distinguished for their wisdom and p atrio tism, has been the M ag na Charta for more th an eighty y ears of t he Am erican nation, under which the United States hav e g rown in wealth, intel ligence and power, unti l they have reached the first rank among the nations of the world; and Whereas, The territory now composins the State of Louisiana was purchased and paid f or out of the t reasury of the United States; that this State, under the Federal c onstitution and laws, has, at all times, at home and abroad, been amply protected, bo th in her honor and interest that at no time a nd in no act has the Federal govern ment infringed or in any way imperilled the political o r relig ious rights of this State, that we deem that public f aith of the State and sound policy r eq uire that she shoulda c ontinue loyal to the general government and Whereas, The Convention which assembled at B at on Roug o te on the 20th of January 1861, did, without sanction of law, and in violatio n of the Federal constitution, adopt and p ass t he followi ng ordinance of secession: "An ordinance to dissolve the union be tween the State of Louisiana and other States United with her, under the compact entitled t he UConst itution of the United S tate s of Am e rica.' " We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in Convention a ssembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, that the ordinance passed by us in Con vention on the 22d of November, A. D. 1811, whereby the constitution of the United S tates of America, and the amendments of said constitution, were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby repealed and abrogated, and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States, under -the name of' the United States of America.' is hereby dissolved. "We do further declare and ordain, that the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from allegiance to said government, and she that is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State. " We do further declare and ordain, that all rights acquired and vested under the constitution of the United States, or any act [The secretary read th e minority report, omitting the secession ordinance. The roll was then called on the question of laying on the table, and the motion was lost by the following vote:] AYEs-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Davis, Henderson-5. NAYs- -lessrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, 114 GEo. F. BITOTT. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Mr. STOCKER —I move to lay on the table. [Motion lost. [Yeas and nays were demanded, and the secretary called the roll, when the motion was declared lost-yeas 25, nays 48. As it was asserted that no quorum was present, the roll was called to ascertain, when seventy-six gentlemen responded. [Yeas and nays were called for on the adoption of the resolution, with the following result: The resolution was adopted.] Mr. HENDERSON-The language of that resolution is such-consequent probably upon its having not Seen drawn up in the best temper —that I voted against it. The resolution tends not only to censure the gentleman for impropriety on his part, but to deprive him of his membership. If it is proposed to censure the gentleman, a charg sol e should be made a gainst him se ttin g forth the reas on for which he is censured, then he could be brought before the house in a proper manner and action could be take n on i t in such a man ner that the people of the State wo uld know for what lie was censured. I say that I, for one, have heard, upon this floor, pr opositions mo re a bsurd than the one just made to adjourn sine diemade with no othe r purpose than to delay the business of this body, and that gentleman may have intended the motion as a censure upon the H ouse for wasting time If the gentlema n puts himsel f i n a way to. make himself obnoxious to the Convention by opposing this, that and the other ques tion,'we can. at a proper time, vote to cen sure him; but when a motion is made to adjourn sine die. and a motion follows that the gentleman making the first motion be taken out of the Convention, I say and think that the last motion is more out of order and more censurable than the action of the gentleman. This is a proposition tending to deprive him of the right to represent the sovereign people merely be cause he moved to adjourn. I am aston ished that a deliberative body like this-as cool-headed as I know it to be-should for a moment entertain the proposition. He might as well rise to move to displace the Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofll, Bonzano, Brott, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Cook T., Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Collins, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Decker, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Hills, Hlre, Kavanagh. Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Seymour, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson-70. Mr. WILSON —I move the substitute be received, and be made the order of the day for Monday next. Mr. B.ALCH-This question has been alr,.ady voted down, and we should not, by taking it up again, stultify ourselves. I most certainly enter my protest against such a course of proceeding, and at the same time present for your solution this question: Whether, when a question has been put and acted upon emphatically, any other resolution of a similar character can be introduced during the same session? Now, sir, for the purpose of facilitating busmness, I beg gentlemen not to do this thing and thus postpone our business from day to day. If they do, I will thwart them, and do everything in my power to hinder the progress of the Convention. If, on the other hand, I see honesty of purpose and straightforwardness of intention to do what is right, I will further their plans to the utmost to expedite matters. But this introducing resolution after resolution of the same tenor, throwing the Convention int6 difficulties and outside contempt, is a shame. Mr. AuSTIN-If in order. I offer the following amendment: That the third reading of the report of the Committee on Federal Relations be made the order of the day for Tuesday, May the 3d, and that the minority report be printed for use of the Convention. AMr. B. -LCI-I move we adjourn sine die. Mr. CA.M'PBELL —I second the motion. [ Motion lost.] Mr. STAUFFER-1 rise to a question of privilege and offer the following: I move that the sergeant-at-arms be in structed to remove the member from Iber ville, and a vote of censure be passed upon him for his conduct in this Convention. 1115 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION president of this Convention on any ground whatever. It might be unbecoming, and he might be censurable, but that would be no reason why some gentleman should move that he be expelled. I think the resolution is exceedingly unbecoming, and hope it will be lost. Mr. HILLS-It seems to me this matter has gone for enough. While I voted against laying the resolution on the table, I shall certainly vote against the resolution itself. I think the vote already taken is sufficient censure, and I therefore move that the mernber have permission to withdraw that resolution. Mr. STAIUFFER-I withdraw it. My reason for offering it was to preserve the order of this body, and I wish to see members comes into it in a fit condition to do business. I did not offer the resolution because the gentleman moved to a djourn sine die. Mr. STOCKER —I o bject to the withd rawal of the resolution. good reason s for it. For that reason I voted now ag ainst his withdrawing it. [ Mr. Stauffer then withdr ew hi s motion. ] PRESI.)ENT-The question i s on the amend ment offered to print the amendment to the report of the Committee on Federal Rela tions. Mr. THOMAS —I understand that to be a minority report. Mr. BROTT-It is. Mr. THOMAS —I move that it be printe d and laid o v er for action n ext Tuesday. [ The motion was seconded and carried. ] PRESIDElNT-The question now is on the substitute of Mr. S. Pursell. Mr. HILLs-I move th a t action on the substitute be postponed until after the min ority report is ac ted upon. [ Seconded and carri ed. ] Mr. HILLS-If it is in order, I w o uld like to submitt a brief report on the subject refer red to in the memorial of yesterday. [ There being no objection, the report was read:] To the presi dent and members of the Conven tionfor the Revision and Amend ment tuf the Constitution of Lou isiana: T he unders igned, members of th e Com mitte e o n Pub lic Education, to whom was referred the ver y able and interesting me morial of A. Vallas, respectfully su bmit t he t following report: i That while the memorial in question re flects great credit upon its author, they are unable to concur in its recommendations, especially in the proposition to merge the State Seminary into the Universitv. It seems proper to the comnfittee that the vast stretch of territory in Western Louisiana *should have an institution of learning in which her youth may be liberally educated, and in which those wishing to enter the University may receive a preparatory course. In the judgment of the committee, such an institution will become a great public ne cessity, nor can the undersigned perceive that the fact cited by Mr. Vallas, that traitors attempted to turn the Academy into a rebel military school, renders its existence less desirable or necessary. It is to be hoped that under the benignant influence of freedom and the new civilization that is rising from the ruin of our former institutions, the delusion which sought to sunder the bonds of the Union will become extinct. Your committee therefore recommend the adoption of the following resolution:. Resolved, That the thanks of this body Mr. BiLCH —The gentlemanns insinuation is a mistake, and heis unfortunate in making the allusion. When I made the motion to adjourn, I did it in good faith. Why? You represent about six thousand votes in the State of Louisiana, and I am confident, you do not represent the city of New Orleans nor the State of Louisiana. You can expel me at once; I am willing to go home. I prefer to stay in my ga rden and work there among my negroes, to remaining here if you are going to set up houses one day and knock them down the next. A resolution is offered and acted upon, and that resolution should not be introduced again, but it is done every day. We stand now where we stood yesterday and where shall we be next? I desire to go away; expel me. PRESIDENT-The questions is on the permission to withdraw the resolution. [The question was put and carried by a rising vote of 50 to 24.] Mr. STOCKER-I ask the privilege of explaining my reasons for voting as I did. In the first place I voted to lay that resolution on the table, because I believe when a gentleman wishes to censure another, he should not make the charge without giving 116 AND AMENDMENT OF THE COSTITUTI(IN OF LOUISIANA. are due to A. Vallas, late superintendent, etc., for the able and patriotic memorial he has presented on the subject of public education. Respectfu lly submitted. ALFRED C. HI LS. Chairmaln. M. W. MURPHY, X. MAURER, J. RANDALL TERRY, H. C. EDWARDS. T. M. WELLS, EDWARD HART, Jo. R. BALCII, YOUNG BURKE. Mr. WIL-SON-I move it be accepted and printed, and made the order of the day when the regular reading comes up. [ The motion was carried. A motion to adjourn till the usual time to-morrow was then made and carried.] tion: Whereas, There are several members absent from their seats in this Convention, and drawing their per diem, and as there was a resolution adopted by this Convention declaring their seats vacant after an absence of three days; therefore,-be it Resolved, That all members who are absent beyond the time specified in the said resolution, that their seats be declared vacant, and that the secretary be directed to stop their per diem for every day that said members are absent, until otherwise ordered by this Convention. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move the rules be suspended and the resolution taken up. [The motion to suspend the rules was carried.] Mr. MoNrtMATr-I move the resolution be carried. [The motion was carried, by a rising vote of yeas 37, nays 26.] PRESIDENT-Reports of standing committees are in order. Mr. GOILRNSEI-The Committee on Internal Improvement report progress. Mr. GRC rEBERG-The Committee on Sched ule report prog ress. Mr. SiA,W-The Commit t e e on Ordnan ce report progress. Mr. PUJRSELI4The Committee on Expenses are rea dy to report. We report as folfows: To the honorable the pres ident and members of the Free State Convention of Louisian a: Your committee have the honor to report their approval of bills amounting to th ree thousan d si x hundred and sixt y-five 55-1 o00th dollars, ($3665 55) for which vouchers were furnished by the sergeant-at-arms. There being no funds provided for the payment of contingent expenses, your Committee respectfully recommend an appropriation of twenty five thousand dollars for that purpose, and offer the following resolution: Resolved, That the sum of twenty-five thousand dollars be and the same is hereby appropriated out of the general fuimds of the State, for the purpose of paying the contingent expenses of the Convention. Respectfully submitted, S. PURSELL, Chairman. JAMES DUANE, JOHN A. NEWELL, R. B. BELL, JOHN PAYNE. Mr. S. PURSELL-I move a suspension of the rules for the purpose of acting on it. FRIDAY, April 29, 1864. [At 12 o'clock the House was called to order, and after prayer by the Rev. Mr. Gilbert, the roll was called and the following gentlemen responded: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balcd, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Collin, Davies, Dufresne, Decker, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy,Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner. Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells and Wilson 81. [The minutes of yesterday were read and approved.] Mr. BELT-Mr. President, I have a peti-, tion which -I desire to offer. To the president and members of the constitu tional Convention: GE"r,LME, —Having been engaged for six days prior to the election of M. DeCoursy, Esq., as sergeant-at-arms, in fitting up hall, &c., I respectfully solicit such compensation as you may be willing to grant. HY. COPELAND. MR. WIsoN —I move it be referred to the Committee on Compensation. [The resolution was carried without objection.] 117 Mr. HAR-,A.', —l offer the following reso IDFBATES IN THE CONVYTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. SULLIvAN-Before it is adopted I wish the items read. I move the committee be obliged to hand in their report with t he items allowed. PRESIDENT-The question is on the reception of the report. [The report was received without objection. The motion to suspend the rules was then put and carried.] Mr. DuA.NE-The committee have seen all the items, and they are very numerous. The amlounts are from one dollar and upwards d and the reading of them would detain this Convention for a long time. Mr. STAUFER-I hope the gentleman will withdraw his motion, as the chairman has stated that vouchers have been furnished, and I presume they can be examined by any mjember. Mr. SULLIvAN-It seems to have got abroad that expenses are incurred that are not necessary, and I wish to know what they are. Mr, BELL-As a member of that committee I will state that the bills have been duly examined and vouchers presented, and all has been found correct. PRESIDE~NT-The question has not been seconded. It is an unusual motion, as the bills are open for the examination of any gentleman. [The resolution to adopt the report was then carried.] PRESIDENT-Reports of Special Committees are in order. Mr. WILSON-The Committee on Assault of Members will be ready to report next T Thursday, Mr. President. [The secretary read a communication firom the secretary of state transmitting returns of the election of Mr. Orr and a protest of Mr. McGuire, contesting the election.] Mr. BELL-I move that it be received and adopted. Mr. WILSON —I amend by referring it to the Committee on Credentials. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-Unfinished business is now in order. Committees will call up their reso- lutions. Mr. BELotoer call up the resolution of Mr. Brott, offered yesterday. [The secretary read the following:] Resolved, That the Committee on Expenses be and are hereby requested to make an estimate of the contingent expenses required by said committee. Mr. STAUFFER-We:have already passed a resolution that will cover that. Mr. GOLDMAN —I call for the reading of my resolution. [The secretary read:] Be it resolved, That banking corporations, under the authority of the State, are prahibited, and that those banks which are doing banking business at present, or have done so hitherto, are hereby forbidden to co ntinue such business. EDMUND GOLDMAN. Mr. WILSON —I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was seconded.] Mr. STAUFFER —I call for the yeas and nays. [The call was sustained and the roll called with the following result:] YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Cook T.. Crozat, Dufresne, Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fuller, Geier, Healy, lHarnan, Henderson, Hire, Kavanagh, Maas, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Howell, Poynot, Shaw, Stocker, Spellicy, Stumpf, Terry, Wilson — 38. NAYs-Messrs. Ariail, Bonzano, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Collin, Davies, Duane, Decker, Ennis, Foley, Fosdick, Goldman, GorlinSki, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Hart, Heard, Hills, Howell, Knobloch, Kugler, Maurer, Millspaugh, Montague, Morris, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Smith, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells-42. [The motion was lost.] Mr. THoMAs-I move the resolution be referred to the Committee on General Provision s. Mr. STAUFFER-I move to amend by referring it to a special committee of five. on banking, appointed by the president. Mr. MONTA.GUE-I move to amend l1y referring it to the Judiciary Committee. Mr. HILLs-I move to lay all the amendments on the table. [The motion was carried.] Mr. CAMPBELL —I rise to explain the object I had in voting not to lay it on the table. This is a matter of very grave importance to the Convention, and should not be acted on I I I 118 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. in a hasty manner. I wish to hear a debate on this question, and hope the Convention will take time to consider it well; therefore I move that a day be fixed when there is no other business and the question can be con sidered. Mr. STOCKER-I move the matter be post poned until the first day of January next. Mr. DAVIES-I move to lay it on the table. If the Convention has the power, Mr. STOCKER-I rise to a point of order. The gentleman moved to lay it on the table, and that motion cannot be discussed. [The motion to table was apparently car ried, when a division was called for and a rising vote taken with the following result yeas 55, nays 10.] PRESIDE;NT-The question now is upon the adoption of the resolution. Mr. HENDERSoN-The gentlemen will per petually insist upon our legislating. They bring a question before this body that in no wise concerns' it. I do not think there is much to censure in a gentleman who endeavors to postpone all such matters. If the gentleman wishes a resolution of the nature of a provision of some portion of our constitution, let him prepare it and have it inserted but suppose the Convention should cast a majority vote in favor of it, will it stop the bank? Our constitution must act prospectively, and when it goes into effect it becomes'the law of the land. I cannot consider why we fritter away so much time in useless propositions. It is time some common sense was used. The riesolution, if passed, is but an expression of opinion, and when the Convention dies it is a dead letter, for this is entirely a matter for the Legislature. Mr. HILTs —-I was opposed to laying this resolution on the table, at the same time I agree in the main with the remarks of the last gentleman, and for that very reason I am in favor of referring it to the Committee on General Provisions. It is a subject for legislation, and we have no power to legislate. It may be necessary to have some clause in the constitution bearing on this subject; therefore I move to lay all the amendments to the motion referring it to the committee on the table. Mr. THoMAs —Before the vote is takien, I wish to say a few words. I notice in the constitution of 1852, article 118 provides for the creating of corporations with banking and discounting privileges, "Corporations with banking or discount ing privileges, way be either created by special acts, or formed under general laws," etc. In the report of the Committee on Gene ral Provisions, article 32, they have re ported: " Corporations with discounting -privileges," leaving out "banking." My reason for referring this matter to the com mittee was, I believe it naturally belongs to that part of the constitution. Certainly, sir, it should be a part of the constitution of this State to prohibit some kinds of banding privileges. There are men here, undoubted ly, who will oppose, and with much rea son, any banking privileges. There are men here who have lost, since this war began, enough to discourage them, and destroy their faith in any bank. To-day we see un der the present system these banks doing business under their charters requiring them to redeem thei r bills in specie, an d yet the bills of one bank bear a pre mium of ten per cent.. and another at a discount of forty per cent. I agree with the gentleman who first spoke, that this is a question of great impor.tance, and deserves the consideration of the Committee on General Provisions, and the fall expression of this body. Mr. GOLD.MAN-My object in bringing that resolution up was simply to assist our national treasury. A declaration in favor of a national currency will -be a great progressive step, and do as much to,assist the government as the addition of one hundred thousand men to our armies. I am for a national currency and a national language. I intended to have the resolution if passed inserted in the report of the Committee on General Provisions. I wished to move to strike -out article 32, and I believe I am justified in doing this, because by referring to the constitution of 1845, which was adopted by the people of undoubted integrity and talent, it will be seen that it is expressly stated in article 123, that "corporations shall not be created in this State by special laws, except for political or municipal purposes, but the Legislature shall pro illo t DE)BATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR TIHE REVISION vide by general laws for the organization of all other corporations except corporations with banking or discounting privileges, the creation of which is prohibited." What injury can arise fron a national currency instead of a thousand banks? I think we owe it to the people of the State to protect them from "wild cat " banks. The injury already inflicted is serious enough. I am not bent upon passing this resolution today, but hope to see it considered thoroughly, and made a special business. Mr. WImsON-Though I voted to lay on the table, I am strongly in favor of sustaining our own banks. They have done remarkably well, in my opinion, through this terrible revolution. They have always stood at the head of American banking institutions. If it were possible to become legislators, in place of framers of organic law-and we should pass a resolution to shut up these banks —we should see here to-day, after our adjournment, a great panic, which would affect the poorer classes- a useless panic. I am in favor of doing all that is possible for the national armies and the national banking institutions of the country, but this system has not be en t ried in this coun try before this time, probably never under the same circumstances, and many of the wisest men of the nation were opposed to its adoption. Mr. BELL-I mo ve that the matter be put in the hands of the Committee on Ge neral Provisions, and when that reports it will be open to debate. Mr. FOLEY-As chairman of t he Committee on General Provisions, I move that Judg we e Howell be appointed upon that committee. [The motion was seconded.] PR.ESIDENT-It lies over for to-day. Mr. GRUNEBERG-I call for my resolution. [The secretary read the following: ] Whereas, The Constitutional Convention of the State of Louisiana has been called principally to decide on the abolition of slavery in the State; whereas, the adoption of this measure, in whatever manner or form, will necessarily require great modifications in all parts of the organic law of the State; whereas, for these reasons this Comvention cannot or ought not to come to a final decision on the reports of any of the standing committees on constitutional amendments, before voting on emancipation; and, whereas, the question of emancipation be ing the most important of all, requires the longest and most matured deliberation of this assembly; be i t therefore Resolved, That this Convention will take into consideration, first, the reports of all the standinh o committees on cons titution al amendments, w ith substitutes and amendments thereto, except the report of the Committee on Emancipation, but t hey shall not pass further tha n a second reading that thente e ort o the rep or t of the Committ ee on Emancipation shall be ta ken up and be then regularly passed to a final vote; and that afterwards the reports of all the other st anding committees shall pass to their third reading and to a f inal v ote thereon. And, moreover, Resolved, That thi s Con - vention shall only adjourn from day t o da y until the reports of all the st anding committees on constitutional amendments, except that of emancipation, shall have passed a second reading. CHAS. H. L. GRIUNEBERG. Mr. Wm:,oN —I move that it be printed and copies furnished to every member. Mr. THOMAS-I amend, and move that it be made the order of the day for Monday next. [The amendment was accepted and the motion as amended carried.] Mr. CA.MPBELL-I rise to a question of privilege. It is to explain to this Convention the object I had yesterday in seconding the motion to adjourn sine die. Mr. President, if any of us will read the proceedinks in Congress now going on, we will find that there has been a bill passed by the House of Representatives (ten voices only dissenting) in favor of amending the constitution in regard to slavery. We also find. that the Senate has passed the bill, and that it now only awaits the signature of the president. I seconded the motion to adjourn, because I thought that any action we might take here, referring to that matter, would be neither in time nor place, as it might conflict with the disposition made of the matter by the national Congress, and therefore considered this action of ours premature, thinking we should take none before seeing the'result of the deliberations at Washington. That is one reason. Another is, that there is now a bill pending before the national Congress, the object 120 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. the court in which such vacancy exists, and the person so appointed shall hold his office until the next general election. Mr. STAUFFER-I ask if the gentleman offers that as an amendment to my sutb stitute? Mr. MONTAMAT —Yes, sir. Mr. HARNA~ —I move it be printed. [The motion was carried.] Mr. FOLEY-I move that the third reading be this day week. [ The motion was carried.] Mr. CUTLER-I desire to submit to the consideration of this Convention, the pro priety of acting upon the reports of different committees in regular order. The order for one o'clock to-day was the judiciary report. Several amendments have been proposed and one or two substitutes offered. This is a question of very serious and vital importance, and hence in my humble opin ion there is a necessity for grave examina tion. I would, therefore, move, for the purpose of disposing of all those questions, and for the purpose of our acting in harmony, that we go on in regular order, and be gov erned in our actions by the rules adopted by the convention of 1852, and that the second reading of the Committee on Judi ciary be postponed, together with all the substitutes and amendments, so far as any future action is concerned, until the reports of all the previous committees be received I and adopted. PRESIDENT-The motion lies over for one day. Mr. FOLEY-I move a reconsideration of the motion, making the report of the Judi ciary Committee, the amendments and substitutes thereto, the order of the day for thi s da y w eek. [ The motion was carried.] Mr. IIENDERSON —When the report of this committee'comes up, will it be on the second reading? PRESIDENT-When it comes up again it will be on the third reading. Mr. HE.NDERSON-When the report of a committee is once read, it cannot be read again. on that day. When a bill comes up on its second leadingsI refer to Jefferson's Manual, page 60-disculssions take place of which is to provide for the reconstruction of rebellious States. How do we know what the result of this may be? I therefore contend that anything we do here may amount to nothing, and, therefore, think it was proper and honest in me to have seconded that motion. If I have made my self understood, I have nothing further to say. Mr. CAZABAT-I move we adjourn. [The motion was lost.] PRESIDENT-We come to the special order of the day: Report of Committee on Judi ciary Department and the second reading. Amendments have been submitted by Messrs. Sullivan and Henderson. The ques tio n is, whether they shall be committed o r read a second time? Mr. STAUFFER-I offer the follow ing s ub stitutes for articles eleven and twelve of the o rig inal report and Mr. Sullivan's amendment. ART. 11. The Judges, both of the Supreme and Inferior Courts, shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and conse nt of this S enat e, fo r t h e term of eight years. And it shall be t he duty of the gov ernor at the end of each term to submit to the S enate the names of the occupants, to be continued in office or rejected. Art. 12. The clerks of the inferior courts shall be elected by the people, and they shall hold their offices during six years, subj ect to r emov al by the judges respec tively, with the right of appeal in all such cases to the Supreme Court. Mr, GOLDMAN-I second. Mr. STAyUFFER-I move that the substitute be printed. [.The motion was carried.] Mr. MOMTAMAT-I wish to offer the following amendment to article 11: The Judges of the Supreme Court shall be elected by joint vote of the General Assembly, and for a term of ten years. They shall have power to appoint their own clerks. The Judges of the inferior courts shall be elect ed by the qualified voters of the district in which they reside, and shall hold their courts at such time and place as the General Assembly may direct. They shall hold their office for a term of six years, and until their successors are elected and qualified. Clerks of the inferior courts in this State shall be elected for the term of four years, and should a vacancy occur subsequent to an election, it shall be filled by the judge of 16 121 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THIE REVISION and amendments are proposed. When the prove or reject, and then engross and pass amendments come up those opposed should it to its third reading. make the first attack, not wait until the [Upon motion, the rules were suspended third reading and then put it to vote. When in order to adopt the resolution of the that reading does come, we make a gentleman from Orleans-Mr. Cutler.] law. Mr. HIiLs-I would like to know if the Now we do not know but that some gentle- report and amendments are open to debate. man may move an adjournment before the PRESIDENT —If this resolution is not carthird reading, and then we are in a bad ried they will be. fix. I am willing to listen with attention [4n order to allow debate the resolution to the arguments of any other gentleman, was withdrawn, for that purpose only.] and he may have the honor of converting Mr. HILLus —Mr. President, this question me, or I of converting him to my opinion, is one of the most important that will come but we must open the attack somewhere. before this Convention, and the gentlemen Mr. CUTLERL-One word of explanation. who have presented it, with the amendments My learned friend has been firing his large and substitutes to it, it seems to me, ought battery at an imaginary enemy-a mere to be ready at present to discuss them at shadow. All parliamentary bodies well this time. If they are, and we take up the know that a motion may be made to post- question at once, it will be seen that we pone, and when made and seconded the have commenced to work. I am anxious to orginal motion may or may not be open to hear the gentlemen on this matter without debate. further delay., My motion was not for the purpose of Mr. STOCKER-Mr. President, I wish to cutting short the debate, on the contrary, to know what the question is-whether reinvite it; and after having invited it, to port on the amendments or the substitutes make known what the object of some mem- are before the House, and which of them. bers of this committee was —-that is, to Mr PURSELL, ofJefferson-Mr President, postpone the final action until all the other in order to get a question before the House, committees restpone the final acmotion untwasil all the other I move that the amendment of Mr. Sullivan committees report. My motPresident and as a matter be adopted. simple one, Mr. President, and as a matte PRESIDENT-That is not in order. of course, left the qustion of the judiciary Mr. SHXW-I move that we take up the report, the substitute and amendment, open report, section by section, and in connection to debate. with each section the substitutes and amend Mr. HEARD —I wish to plant myself upon ments that apply to it. Jefferson's Manual, and rules and orders of Mr. WILsoN-Mr. President, as some of the Senate and House of Representatives of the.e amendments have not been printed, the State of Louisiana. When I asked the. and are really not before the House, I think question whether this report of the Judiciary that there ought to be a little delay in Committee would come up on its second order to give the printer time to have them reading on the day fixed, the president said, printed for the use of the Convention. 'No, on the third." Now, sir, I contend I therefore move that it be adjourned that neither the amendment, nor any sub- until Monday, so as to give the printer stitute, nor any report of the committee has time to put them before the House. been adopted on its second reading, and, Mr. TuORPE-I move to lay that motion according to parliamentary usage, it must on the table. be before it can be engrossed for a third Mr. HILLS-I second the motion. reading. I refer to Jefferson's Manual, arti- [The question was put; ayes, on a rising cle 98, to sustain my position. I contend vote, 25, nays 47.] that when this report, with the substitute Mr. HILLS-Mr. President, I suppose the and amendment, come up at the day fixed, question is now open to debate. I am it will come up on its second reading, and opposed to the motion to lie over till Monthen is the time to discuss the quelstion, ap- day. It seems to me that the gentlemen 122 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. ready printed, and besides, if we delay, and lay the report over every time an amendment is presented, we shall never get through with our work. We don't know how many amendments may be proposed if we wait for them. We'cannot prevent every member from' coming in with his amendment by debating the question now and on the third reading; if a rider comes up which may kill the whole bill, we can't postpone that,-you can't postpone a rider. But this is not the question now. We do not propose to adopt amendments at this time. Nothing can be adopted on the second reading. You cannot adopt either the report or the amendments now; but I think it would be a waste of time to postpone discussion. I can see no objection to making the main points now. We can do it as well to-day as on Monday. Mr. ABELL-Mr. President. I came here to-day in the belief that this was the first reading of the report. It seems though that I was wrong. But 5 have an amend?ment that I do not wish to have cut off. PRES;IDE,ENT-It is not in order. Mr. CUTLElt-Before you put the question, Mr. President, I will remark that I am inclined to the opinion that there has been an error committed. My motion to postpone wows before the House. I did not withdraw it for any other purpose than that of permitting debate on account of the desire of some gentlemen to discuss the report now upon its second reading. I received it for the pullpose of allowing discussion on this question. Had any gentleman proposed any other motion, mine would not have been waived. This being the case, the chair should have entertained nothing else. Had anything else been presented, the chair, instead of entertaining a variety of other matters, should have called upon me either to withdraw my resolution or have asked for its presentation. PtE PD.VNTX- There has been no misunde.rstanding. The question is on the adjonurnl ment of dlebaste, and a motion is made to who have offered amendments are ready to discuss them n ow, and now is th e time that they should be he ard. I can see no necessit o any foer any loger delay. Mr. BALCeI h i-A mo tion to adjourn is in order. I renew my m otion to adjourn; th e motion is not debatable. Mr. STOCKER-The question, to us e the languag e of my dist inguished friend on my right, i s one of the most important that will come before us. We have a number of amendments thrust upon us to-day. The proposi tion t hat the gentlemen who have offered the amendments are ready to debate them may be very true as far as it goes. I confess, however, that so many of them have been brought up this morning that I am hardly prepared to express my own views. and there are no doubt many of us here who may desire to express our views on the question who have not offered amendments, and I believe that a little time to allow us to inform ourselves more fully of the nature of the amendments would not be time thrown away. Mr. HENDERSON-1 expected Just this PRE,S[DEN1'-It is not in order. MrEI.4. xDlsn-1I expected just this course would be pursued by this House to- Mr. CUTLER-Before you put the question, day. When there is anything to be done Mr. President, I will remark that I am inyou adjourn; when there is nothing to do dined to the opinion that there has been an you stay. There are now but two subjects error committed. My motion to postpone before this House. The gentlemen say they was before the House. I did not withdraw are not prepared for argument. If they it for any other purpose than that of perare not prepared to argue the question. we mitting debate on account of the desire of are prepared to show them how to argue it, some gentlemen to discuss the report now and to show them, too, that we are prepared upon its second reading. I received it for to argue it now. the purpose of allowing discussion on this One of these two questions is, whether question. Had any gentleman proposed the judiciary shall be elective or appoint- any other motion, mine would not have ive, and the other whether the Supreme been waived. This being the case, the Court shall in its appellate jurisdiction chair should have entertained nothing else. decide. in criminal as well as civil cases. Had anything else been presented, the points of fact as well as of law. These chair, instead of entertaining a variety of questions can be discussed to-day. We can other matters, shbuld have called upon me discuss the question of an elective or ap- either to withdraw my resolution or have pl)ointive judiciary to-day as well as next asked for its presentation. week or next Jamnuary. There is nothing PIEStD)RNT-There has been no misunderto hinder it. Your amendments can be put standing. The question is on the adjournoff till another (lay; you can put them iment of debate, and a motion is made to upon it until the third reading, and then table the motion to postpone. you can put a rider upon that if you choose, [The question was put and a rising vote which will kill the whole bill. decided in the negative; yeas 32, nays 51.] We have amendments here that are al- PRESIDENT —The motion now is that it be 12'I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION taken up article by article, with the amendments and substitutes relating to each article. [Question put and carried without objection.] PRESIDENT-Now the motion to postpone comes up. [ The qu estion was put and t he r esolution carried.] PRESIDENTr-That resolution does not cut off deba te on this second reading. Mr. SHAW-I move that article I. be r ead. [The secretary read the article.] Mr. HILLS —Mr. President I move tha t th at be passed to a third reading. Mr. HE-'DErPSOX —That is out of order. You cannot move' to pass to a third reading. Mr. CAZABAT —Mr. President, I have an amendment to article IV. PRESIDENT-We shall come to that byeand-bye. Mr. STAUFFER-Mr. President, I move that article I. be adopted. [Several voices.] " That is out of order." PRESIDENT-Mr. Secretary, if there is no objection, read article I. with the amendments. [The secretary read article I.] Mr. AABELs —Mr. President, if I am in order, I move an amendment to that article. I wish to know if I am in order? [The secretary read the amendment of Mr. Henderson.] MR. ABELL-Mr. President, is my amend Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, this amendment proposes an important matter, more important, perhaps, than would be thought at first sight. I, therefore, move that this amendment be printed and lie over to some Mr. CUTLER-The motion of the gentleman should not prevail, because the resoluthat has been adopted by the Convention within the last fifteen mimnutes was to the effect that not only the third reading, but all the substitutes and amendments should be postponed until after all the reports of the other committees which, according to the classification of 1852, precede it in order, have been finally acted on. Hence, it the gentleman's motion be to postpone, it must be to postpone until all these other reports have been adopted. PRESIDENT —That depends upon the time that the debate is continued on this second reading. Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I am willing for it to lie over until next Tuesday. PRESIDENT —You take your chances. If the debate continues until that time, you can offer it then., Mr. S ecrt retary, read Mr. Henderson's amendment. [The secretary read the amendment.] Mr. HENI)ERSoN —Under the present constitution the Supreme Court has appellate jurisdiction in a civil case, when the demand in controversy exceeds three hundred dollars, to all cases in which the constlitionality or legality of any tax, toll or impost whatsoever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation shall be in contestation, and to all criminal cases. The Supreme Court has jurisdiction in a criminal case, and upon law only, where the party is convicted of a capital crime; when the party, on conviction, may be punished with hard labor; and, lastly, where the price actually imposed exceeds three hundred dollars. In no other class of cases has the Supreme Court appellate jurisdiction under the constitution of 1852. The amendment proposed enlarges the appellate power of the Supreme Court, and especially confers upoh it the right to review questions of fact as well as law in a criminal as well as a civil suit, under ment in order? PRESIDE.Xr-Read the a mendmen t of Mr. Su llivan, Mr. Secretary. [To Mr. Abell.] Yours will come next and will be taken up first. SECRE'rXRY Mr. Sullivan~s amendments do not apply to to this article. PRESIDENT-Very well. [To Mr. Abell.] The gentleman will read his amendment. [Mr. Abell read his amendment. After which it was re-read by the secretary.] Mr. HENDERSON —The question now comes up on the qualification. The only question I make is that the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction. Pr.rEsrDST N-The question comes up on the last amendment. 124 other day. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. such exceptions and under such regulations as the Legislature in its wisdom may pro vide, from time to time. The manifest defect in the present ~constitution is that it fixes the nature and amount of contro versies to be had in the Supreme Court, without leaving any discretion in the Legislature. I am fully aware that my plan is objectionable in some of its features, when compared to a better system. For my part, I would give unlimited power to the Legisla ture to prescribe the nature and terms of an appeal from one judicial tribunal to another, for if it errs the redress is within their own hands, and they can readily modify or repeal the law, and thus remedy the evil. But not so if the defect exist in a fundamental law-the constitution-for it is not so easily altered. In some of the States of the Union, the court of last resort is one empowered to examine law only. But where this system prevails there exists one or more intermediate courts between the court of original jurisdiction and the court of last resort; and by means of such intermediate courts, the facts become thoroughly sifted and clearly ascertained, so that the court of final resort has substantially nothing else to do but to apply the law to the facts found. In other States the highest court examines fact as well as law, in both criminal and civil cases, irrespective of the amount in controversy. In Louisiana the Supreme Court has a mixed but limited jurisdiction of fact and law. In civil suits it is limited to an amount in controversy over $300, but can examine law and fact in such a case. In a criminal suit it is limited to crimes where the punishment is capital or hard labor, and it is further limited in these two classes of cases to an examination of law only. In a ci iminal suit where a fine actually imposed exceeds three hundred dollars-the Supreme Court has appellate jurisdiction, but is confined to an inquiry of law alone in such a case. Such a restricted constitution is evidently unjust to the people; and more innocent suffer by it than guilty. Under the system I propose, the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court is enlarged or restricted according to the discretion of the Legislature —which is qualified in a very limited degree by the constitu t ion itself. My amendment is taken from the constitu tion of the United States, Art. III. Th.is enumerates the class o f cases to w hich the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court shall extend under exceptions and re str ictio ns imposed by Congress. It confers a vast discretion on Congress. A like discretion I wish the constitution of the State of Louis - iana to confer on the Legislature under it. When the consti tution ality of any act of a Legislature, or the legality of an ordin a nce o f a corpora tion is controverte d, the Supreme Court shoul d be in vested with the power to revise such law or ordinanc e on the point s so controverted, irrespec tive of the amount in s u i t unde su such a ct or ordinance. The celebrated cent case that went up from the Supreme Court of New York to the Supre me Court of the Unit ed States, is a strong illustration of this principle. The re a lady sued a post-master to recover back one cent, paid by her under protest for a newspaper. She succeeded in the Supreme Court of the United States, but lost i n the S tate courts. The costs of this cen t suit w ere enormous, yet she recovere d th e e ntire amount. In small suits and petty offences the Legislature will confine their origin al and appellate jurisdiction to inferior courts. In criminal cases the Legislature ha s the power, by the constitution, to define in what cases the Supreme Court sh al l have appellate jurisdiction. It also has the right to say in what crimin al cases the Supreme Court shall investigate the plaw andfacts together, and in what. cases it shal l have the power to investigate the law o nly. If the Legisla ture in its experience ascertains it is the best policy to have the facts and law reviewed by the Supreme Court in criminal as well as civil case s, it ca n maintain th is policy. On the other hand, if it should be of the opinion that the law only should be so reviewed in such cases, then let this policy be pursued. Again, if they deem it best to have the law only examined by the Supreme Court in a civil or criminal case, or in both, they then can adopt this plan.. Again, if the Legislature choose to discriminate, by determining in what class of cases-criminal, or civil or bbth-the facts as well as' the law shall be 125 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION reviewed by the appellate tribunal, then be it so. Other instances of legislation might be given, but I forbear. It is for you, gentlemen of the Convention, to determine whether the amendment I propose, or the provision contained in the constitution of 1852, is the better. I thank you, gentlemen of the Convention, for your attention during my remarks. Mr. SULLIVAN-I move to adjourn. [The motion was carried.] which seven electors for president and viepresident of the United States shall be chosen in this State for the coming presidential election. Mr. WELLS-Mr. President, I move a suspension of the rules, in order to take immediate action on that resolution. [The motion was carried.] AMr. BELL —-I move to adopt the motion. .Mr. SULLIVAN —I second the motion. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-By whom shall the committee be appointed? Mr. THoMAs —The rules provide that the president shall appoint all committees, utiless otherwise specially appointed. Mr. DAvIES-I wish to offer Mr. Goldman's resolution of yesterday, with the preamble. PRESIDENT-There is no pream ble. Mr. GOLDMAN-Since a memorial should be signed by a person not a member, I wish mine to be considered a preamble and resolution. PRESIDENT —I did not hear anything about a preamble. Mr. STOCKETP-I have no objection to the gentleman offer ing another preamble, but do object to his offer ing what purported to be a me morial t he other day. Mr. GOLDMAN-I called it a memorial, because I was not aware that a memorial must be signed by a person not a member, as I was sorry to find out; but as I am made aware of it, I call it a preamble and resolution now, as I should have done before. Mr. D.AVIES — I move to print the resolution and add the preamble. PRESIDIENT —-The proper motion will }we for the gentleman to move to append his preamble to the resolution of Mr. Goldman and read the preamble. Mr. DAwTEs —But it is not my preamble, it is Mr. Goldman's. PRESIDENT —If Mr. Goldman desires to offer a preamble he is present and can.offer it himself. Mr. CAMPBELI —I have an amendment to the constitution which I desire to offer: ART.-. No tax. State or municipal, shall be imposed by the General Assembly upon the actual capital engaged in thle following industrial arts, viz:~ All manufactories of SAT'URDAY, April 30, 1864. [The Convention was called to order by the president at the usual hour, and the proceedings opened with prayer by Rev. T. W. Gilbert -after which the secretary called the roll, and the following gentlemen answered to their names, viz: Messrs. Abell, Austin, Barrett, Baum, Bell, Beauvais, Bofill, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Coilin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O:Conner, Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wells, Wilson -69. There being no quorum present, the sergeant-at-arms was d ire ct ed to procu re t he attendance of ab sent m emb e r s. S oo n after, Mvessrs. Bromley, Campbell, Cutler, Duan e, Howell and Wenck having entered the hall, the pres ident announced that a quorum was present. The minutes of the previous day's session were read and adopted.] Mr. Tno.as-Mr. President, I have a preamble and resolution to offer, as follows: Whereas, The State of Louisiana, under the census of 1860, is entitled to seven electors for president and vice-president of the United States, instead of six, as under the former census; And whereas, There is no probability that the Legislature will be convened prior to the approaching presidential election, and that the State cannot, therefore, be divided into electoral districts by that body within said time; I Be it Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed to report as to the manner in I I I i 126 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSITtJTION OF LOUISIANA.' PRESIDENT-If that is the reading of the , resolution, the gentleman is correct. Mr. HILLS-I renew my motion to refer e the two resolutions to the Committee on I General Provisions. Mr. MANN-I think we should not include both in the same vote. Mr. STOCKER-I move we take them up separately. Mr. HILLS-I accept the amendment. [The resolutions were referred to the Committee on General Provisions.] Mr. DAVIES-Would it be in order to read the preamble offered by Mr. Goldman. PRESIDENT-It must be offered by your self; Mr. Goldman is present. Mr. HENDERSON-That is no preamble. Mr. GOLDMAN-I offer the following pre amble: The present war-which must eventually terminate in the triumph of the nation over the rebellious States-opens a new epoch in our national history. The Federal con stitution is not only to be re-established over the entire nation, as the supreme law of the land, but the powers of which it has been stripped, from time to time, by the aggressive spirit embodied in the pernicious doctrine of "State Rights," must be re-as serted, maintained and enforced. Our hap. piness and safety require that, hereafter, the fundamental law of the nation shall absolutely prevail, "anything in the con stitution and laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." The constitu tion gives to the national Congress the exclusive power to coin money and to reg ulate the value thereof, and to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution these powers. The constitution says: "No State shall coin moniey, emit bills of credit, make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in pay ment of debts.,,' The obvious meaning of these provis ions is, that with the United States alone rests the power of authorizing the bills and notes to circulate as money, and that it is one of the powers which the States are prohibited from exercising. This is the view of the acknowledged authorities on constitutional interpretation. Therefore, the system of State banking is, and has been, a gross and palpable usurpation by the States of a power Cexclusively granted to the nation. The State banking system, thus lawlessly maintained, has been fraught with more evil to the moral and material interests of the nation than all other causes together. cloth, leather, yarn and cotton baggingand those engaged in shoe manufacturing, provided twenty hands, at least, are employed. The General Assembly may, however, exempt such others as they deem advisable; this exemption to be allowed for the term of ten years, from and after the date of its establishment. PRESIDENT-It lies over one day under the rules. Mr. STAUFFER —I move it be referred to the Committee on General Provisions. PRESIDENT-It lies over one day, unless you suspend the rules. Mr. ~TLNER-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That no license be granted to gambling houses in this State. Mr. CAZABAT-I did not hear the last resolution read. Mr. HEALY-I move to suspend the rules for its adoption. Mr. HILLS-If I am not mistaken, the motion of referring a resolution to a committee is in order. I think it is the rule that it can be referred to a committee without lying over one day. Therefore, I move that the resolutions of Messrs. Stiner and Campbell be referred to the Committee on General Provisions. PRESIDENT-I think the motion is out of order. Under the rules all resolutions are required to lie over one day. When it comes up you can move to refer it to a committees The question now is on the suspension of the rules. Mr. HILLS-I rise. to a point of order. I do not wish to put myself in opposition to the chair, but ask for information, for this is something we ought to understand. I call for the reading of the rule. PRESIDE.,-T —-Mr. Secretary, read the n"All reselutions or ordinances, unlte referred to a committee, shall lie over one day before being acted upon by the Convention." 127 rule. [The. secretary read rule XXXI.) PRESIDENT-That is the rule, but under a resolution that you have made it must lie over one day. i)fr. STOCKEit-As 1 had the honor of introducing that resolution, I will explain it. The resolution reads thus: DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION on the rebel government a power which alone enabled them to protract the war to the present day. Considering then-lst, that as the Federal government, and not any State government, has the power to stablish banks or to create banking corporations with authority to issue bills of credit; 2d, that the Federal government, in the exercise of its rights, has created a banking system free from all the objections inherent in the State bank system; 3d, that the banks of this State, having by their infidelity to the people and the nation, their dishonest and treasonable action, forfeited all claims, moral or legal, on our consideration; Be it Resolved, That banking corporations, under the authority of the State, are prohibited, and that those banks which are doing banking business at present, or have done so hitherto, are hereby forbidden to continue such business. Were it possible to compute the loss which the industry of the nation has sus tained during the last seventy-five years, by the r ates of discoun t and exchange and the failure of State banks, the sum total would be enough to pay t he deb t created by th reetio the present war. But it is not only the loss of money with which the industry of the nation may justly charge this system. It has inflicted injury on the morals of the nation. Thus every consideration should b ring the people to the determination to put an end to Stat e ba nking a t onc aand forever. The national goret ha eovernment has removed every obstacle in the way of c arrying this out. Th e plea tha t the wants of commerce im peratively demanded a paper circulation has no long er any force. By the act of Congress entitled "An act t o prov ide a national curre ncy, s ecured by a pledg e of United States stocks an d to provide for the circulation and redemption the re of, " ap proved February 25th, 1863, a system of ba nking i s established which will meet all the wants of trade and commerce in every portion of our country, by an issue of pap er money based on the national debt-a system that will free s from the evils of discounts, exchanges and fail ures, and put an end to the favoritism and partial dealings ofthe State b ank system, wh ich it is designed to supercede. The banks now in thi s State have no legal existence. By th e provisions of the cons titution of 1852 and the laws of the State, u nder which thes e bank s w er e created, they have all forfeited t heir charters. By the pre-eminent part they all took in promoting the rebellion, there can be no doubt that all their property is confiscable to the Uni ted S tates. Tho se manag ing and c hiefly in t erested in them wr, were, and still are, the must influential and inveterate of rebels. The constitution and laws of the State made their refusal at any time to redeem their notes in gold or silver, ipsofacto a forfeiture of their charters. Altough those interested may say that the legal formalities have not been carried out to give judicial effect to the forfeiture, we can, and I trust will, pronounce the merited sentence of death upon these faithless banks. The'pretext urged at the time of their suspension of specie payments, of having been coerced into this act of dishonesty, has been long since disproved. They themselves, no doubt, suggested the scheme to the rebel government, and by its adoption, gave that government what it could not else have had — currency. By this course they made for the tfum inordinate profits. but with corresponding losses to the suffering people, who conferred on them their privileges and who trusted them. These insti-| tultionls, acting thus in bad fa~ith. conferred Mr. STOCKER. —I believe under our rules whenever a member asks a gentleman to reduce his resolution or preamble to writing it shall be so ordered. I now ask that Mr. Goldman be required to reduce his pream ble to writing. PRESIDENT-The gentleman will offer his preamble in writing. Reports of standing committees are now in order. Mr. GORLI1NSKI —The Committee on Inter nal Improvement will report Monday. Mr. MnLL1rPAUGH-In the absence of the chairman of the Committee on Enrollment, I report as correctly enrolled the resolution appropriating $25,000 for contingent expenses of the Convention. Mr. BELT —I move that the report be received and the resolution signed by the president. [The motion was carried without objection.] Mr. PURCrI,L —-Mr. President, as chairman of the Committee on Printing, I beg leave to read the following report: To the presidexit and members of the Lou istaia State Convention: Your Committee on Printing, after mature deliberation, beg leave to submit the,followin, rates of compensation to the Official Printer of this Convention: 1. For two hundred copies of the Journal of the Debates of the Convention, in book form, in English and French, printed in brevier, and composed with the matter published in the Journal, the pages to be 128 i ED.Mu.Ni) GOLD.-,iAN. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I seventy-one lines in length, including the Buckley, Collin, Cook J. K.. Crozat, Decktitle, the blank line under the title, and the er, Duane, Flood, Montamat, Poynot, foot line, and forty ems in width-the book Stocker, Thomas, Wilson-16. to be stitched and bound in the same man- The motion was carried ner as law books-five dollars will be al- lowed for each page, and for every two r ONTAMT-The Committee on Crehundred copies after the first two hundred, dentials will have a report on Monday. four dollars per page. I Mr. WILSON —The Committee on Absent 2. For all documents, reports or other Members will report on next Thursday. matter printed in book or pamphlet PRESIDENT-Unfinished business is in orform, in English or French, composed in entl ni.a usei Sobourgeois, the pages to be of the same der. Gentlemen will call up their resolulength and breadth as the Journal-five tions. dollars per page for the first two hundred copies, and for every additional two hun- r F EY- call up my resolution of dred copies, four dollars-per page. yesterday. 3. For resolutions, memorials or reports Resolved, That Mr. Howell be added to of committees, printed on foolscap, or the Committee on General Provisions, in similar sized paper, in English or French, consequence of the illness of the chairman composed in bourgeois type, thirty-six ems of that committee. wide and ninety-five lines in length, for the M. Go MAN- move its adoption. first two hundred copies, eight dollars per page, and for each additional hundred [The motion was carried.] copies, four dollars per page. Mr. BURKE-I call for the resolution of 4. For all matter marked "official,'" and Mr. Wells on adjournment. published in the official journal, one dollar per square for the first insertion, and fifty PRESIDENT-I am told by the secretary cents for each subsequent insertion. The that it has been three or four days uncalled square being considered in size equal to for. Resolutions must be taken up on the ten lines in agate type. flo ten lines inagate type.following day. The next business is the Your committee would respectfully state,ing day The next business is the in conclusion, that they have based' their adjourned discusion on the judiciary rereport, and fixed the prices as above stated, port. upon the increased high prices of paper, Mr. ABEI,I —The order of the day if I labor and printing material. remember aright, is the report on public All of which is respectfully submitted. Jonx PURCELL, Chairman. education. JOHN T. B.ARRETT, I RESII)ENTi-We do not arrive at the or JA.fEs Fuj,ER. d;er of the day until we get through with Mr. MoNrtMA —I move it be adopted. unfinished business. The debate on the Mir. GASTINELr —I amend that it be ac- judiciary report now comes up. cepted, printed and made the order of the Mr. AnisI,L-Mr. President, upon that I day on Friday next. rise. The question on the adoption of the amend- Mr. AUSTIN-We cannot hear. inent was put and a rising vote taken PlR:,SIDENT —So much the worse for the ayes 32, nays 29. gentleman. The ayes and nays were called, with the Mr. ABEI,L —- think, Mr. President, that l'ollowing result: nothing can be sound and reliable unless YEAS -Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, based upon logic. However illogically Barrett, Beauvais. Bonzano, Bromley. Burke, Camipbell, Cook T., Cutler, Davies, anything may be stated or proposed, it ufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Flag, Foley must, to be solid, be based upon a logical Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gor- proposition. linski,,Gruneberg, Gaidry. Harnan. Hart, We are now discussing the judiciary deHeard. Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, I t ucy p~artment. Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, M aurer, t Millspautgh, Montague Morris, Murphy E., The constitution that we are now called Murphy M. WV., Newell, Normand, O('Con- upon to amend is the work not merely of ner, Ong, Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., those who framed it, but it is the logical Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Stumpf Stiner Staue Sulian Terr, Thorpe Watrs' work of ages. It is the logical work of Weuck-t;0' - the best minds, perhaps, that the world has NAYS-Messrs. AbeL, Baum, Bell, Bofill, ever known, and,sir, I contend that in fram 17 129 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION ing the judiciary department and the requisites connected with it, it is impossible for any gentleman upon this floor to properly cast his vote to legislate upon that subject until the first parts of this constitution shall have been framed. I ask whether any gentleman in this House who has a mind to think would vote for a Supreme Court precisely with the same understanding? would we vote for the numbers, for the salary, for the mode of appointment, for the tenure of office, with the same understanding that we could, if we knew what powers were granted to the Legislature? Could we vote understandingly on these great and important questions that concern the judiciary, which is the corner-stone upon which all that we do is to rest, unitil we know what kind of an executive we are to have, and yet, according to the logic of making constitutions, both of these departments stand anterior to the one under discussion. I do not rise for the purpose of discussing the question of the judiciary; nor do I desire to do so, nor shall I ever do so, until I know what kind of an executive is to have the appointments. I say all that must be settled before I can, and before, I think, any gentleman here can, vote understandingly upon the judiciary of the State. If we should adopt an election of an executive by the legislative body — which is the case in several of the Statesin one of them at least-certainly, sir, I should have more reliance in the chance of the intelligence of that man, that governor, than one elected by the people. I would have more confidence in a governor who was elected for six or eight years than one elected for one year, because, sir, it takes time for the most ordinary things to mature, and it requires time for an executive to fully understand the importance, and suit himself to the great and important duties of the office to which he is called. I, for one, never would inltrust power to an executive who was appointed for a single year, or who was elected by the people for two years. We have seen enough of the freaks of th' people, and I trust this Convention will take no further steps with regard to the judiciary until we know the logic of that which precedes it. Then each one will be able to vote understandingly on the subject. But I- contend that not a man here can discharge his duty to the people of Louisiana in respect to the judiciary department until he first and foremost knows in what manner the executive is to be appointed. Therefore, I move that all discussion upon the subject of the judiciary be postponed, to be taken up at such time as it shall be logically reached. Mr. HENDERSON —Mr. President, I move to lay that motion on the table. Mr. ABFI,L-It cannot be done. PRESIDENT-This motion lies over one day, under the rules which have been adopted by the Convention. Mr. ForcEY-I move a suspension of the rule for the purpose of taking up the motion. [The motion was carried, and Mr. Abell's motion was adopted.] PRESIDE,r-T —IS there any other order for to-day, Mr. Secretary? SECRETARY-The report of the Committee on Public Education. Mr. HENDERS'0N-Mr. President, since postponement is the order of the day, I will make a similar motion with respect to this subject. I will move that a11 subjects be postponed until they come up in their order. The judiciary report was logically in order- and before the Convention to-day, but was summarily postponed. There is no use in this mode of proceeding. We might as well not discuss questions as to commence the discussion and then let .them lie over. PRESII)ENT —Mr. Secretary, read the report of the Committee on Public Education. [The Secretary read thd report.] Mr. SUI,I.IVAN —Mr. President, am 1 in order with an amendment? PRESII)ENT —This is the second reading of the report of the Committee on Edu-cation, with amendments and substitutes. The question will be, Shall the report be read a third time? Now you are in order with your amendment. Mr. STOCKF.R —-Mr. President, does the substitute come up filst, or the report, or the amendments, and which? PRESn)E~r —The report, with the su b i I 130 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF DOUISIANA. stitutes and amendments, all come ulp together. Mr. STAUFFER —Mr. President. Mr. WELLS —Mr. President, I move that Mr. Henderson's motion be laid on the table. PRESIDENT [to Mr. Wells] —A gentleman has the floor. Mr. STAUFFERR-Mr. President, I move to strike out the third article. Mr. DAvis-I wish to offer an amendment to the first' article, so as to make it two years instead of four years, and to strike out everything in the fourth line after the word "direct."I Mr. GRUNEBERG-Mr. President, I move as an amendment that the word "'only" be struck out of the article, so that it shall read "the English language shall be taught in the common schools." Mr. BoNzANo —Mr. President, I wish to offer an amendment. It is to strike out "four" and insert "three" faculties; in the 7th article to strike out "arts and sciences," and insert "collegiate." Mr. HEARD-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. Now, sir, according to all parliamentary rules, the report has to be taken up section by section, and then the amendments can be made to each section as it is taken up. I see no occasion for giving notice of amendments. Why, sir, it puts a blush upon all parliamentary rules. I move, therefore, that we proceed according to parliamentary rules, and take up the report section by section. Mr. tMONTAMAT-I believe the gentleman i s right. Mr. HARX,iN'-I move to lay all the amendments on the table. PRESIDEn\T-The motions lie over one Mr. DADvIs-I wish to offer an amend ment. [Ren e wed h is amendment.] Mr. MOONrAMAT-I move to lay the amendment on he tl A the table. Aton th e adoption of the constitution of 1852, the office of superint endent of public s chool s was certainly necessary. Now, i f it is necessary at all, it will be necessary to continue it. At the tim e o f th e adoption of th at constitutio n there was gr eat objection to a system of public schools. It was only through the instrumentality of a few earnest men that they were established in New Orleans. I think that if it is intended to establish a system of publi c sch ools throughout the State, it will be necessary to provi de for t he permanent retention of the office. Mr. THoMAs-Mr. President, I have a few remarks to submit to this body before this substitute is passed upon. I consider the subject of public education one of the highest importance to the people of this State. If it is necessary that public education should be fostered, it is necessary to have a superintendent of public education. It is the universal rule of all the free States of this Union to have'such an officer. The constitution of 1845, Art. 133, provides that: "There shall be appointed a superintendent of public education, who shall hold his office for two years. His duties shall be prescribed by law. He shall receive such compensation as the Legislature may direct." That in substance is exactly the same thing as the substitute of the gentleman from Jefferson, except that his substitute provides that he shall be elected every four years. Inasmuch as he is an officer of the State at large, I see no reason why we should fix his term for two years while the other State officers, the governor, the treasurer, and the auditor, are fixed at four. I am in favor of fixing this one the same as the others, at four years, and I would strike out that portion of the constitution of 1852, which says that the "General Assembly shall have the power to abolish the said office whenever in their opinion it shall be no longer necessary." When will it be no longer necessary to have a superintendent day. [A motion to suspend the rules in order to take up the motion of Mr. Heard was carried, and the resolution was adopted.] PRESII)ENT —Mr. Secretary, read the first article. Mer. DAmnEs-Am I in order now with my amendment? PREsrDE.s-r-No, sir, not till the article is 1 i1 131 read. [The secretary read the article.] )fr. HAP.NAN-1 move itt3 adoptions. 0 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION of public instruction in Louisiana? If it the people a chance to change them every is necessary to-day it will always belneces- two years. sary; as much so as any officer in the State For the same reason I should give the and more so. It may, or can never become people, through their representatives, the unnecessary in this State; and if we desire right to abolish the office of superintendent to see the children now growing up edu- of public education, whenever in their cated; if we desire to see them inspired opinion it became no longer necessary with the spirit of progress and advance- Mr. CUTLER —-Mr. President, I rise not for ment, let us foster iD every manner the the purpose of making a speech, but for the means of education. Let us by all means purpose of submitting to the Convention the have a superintendent of public education; propriety of acting upon the reports of all and let us make it an office that cannot be the committees in that order and according abolished by the whim or caprice of any to that classification which they have said Legislature that hereafter may be convened. they will act upon in the mode of revising For these reasons, Mr. President, I shall the constitution and in the judiciary report. vote for the substitute offered by the gen- It strikes my mind that we should calmly, tleman fiom the parish of Jefferson. coolly and dispassionately consider all the Mr. HILLS-Mr. President, I have not reports of the standing cbmmittees, that we much to say on this subject. The committee should act upon them in their order, accordwere unanimous, so far as its IMembers were ing to the classification of 1852. This Conpresent. We agreed that the Constitution vention has already very wisely decided that of 18S52 could not be improved on that point. before they pass their final vote upon the The gentleman seems to found his objections report of the committee on the mode of reto the term we have reported, upon the as- vising the constitution, that all the reports sumption that the terms of the other State preceding it in order shall be adopted. They officers have already been fixed at four years. have to-day, in my opinion, adopted another I would call his attention to the fact that we wise provision in regard to the judiciary have not yet fixed the. terms of any of the committee. They have decided that all the State officers. We have not fixed the term reports which precede that in order shall be of the governor at four years. I, for one, discussed and disposed of before final action am in favor of short terms. I have not that on that, and that it shall be taken up in its distrust of the sovereign people that some regular order under the classification of the gentlemen profess. I believe that in those constitution of 1852. States where the governor is elected every Now, Mr. President and gentlemen, I two years, he is, and the State officers deemn it a matter of considerable importance elected with him are, as free from the objec- that we should take up the business in the tion of corruption as where they are elected order which has been proposed. Then, infor longer terms. In the State of New York, stead of being engaged in thus summarily for instance, they are elected for two years, disposing of the important subject of educaand American history does not furnish a tion in Louisiana, we should pass upon it, more illustrious list of names than of the knowing something of the other branch of governors of New York. governors of New York. the constitution. I think, Mr. President, I shall not refer particularly to other that we are taking up this matter premaStates, but I believe the same rule will be tarely. found to apply. I am in favor of electing the superintend- ent of public education, and I am not cer- t tain that I shall not advocate the election of all State officers every two years. Then if we get a good governor, and good State officers, we can keep them four years, but if we should get a bad set, for God's sake, give 132. I am not quite certain that it would not be an important step for the members of this Convention to take up the subject of emancipation first. Such a course would certainly be gratifying to their constituents. As to the preamble to the constitution, it would be time enough for us to have a preamble after we know what the constitution AND AliMEND OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. SECRETARY-Monday, report of the Committee on the Executive Department; spe cial report of the Committee on Education on the memorial of Professor Vallas. Mr. HOWELrT-That is connected with this matter. PRESIDENT —It 1is a separate matter. Mr. HOWELL-We should not get our selves out of business and virtually adjourn over fromn day to day by postponing the question. PRESIDENTr-The proper motion is to sus pend the rules to take action on the motion. I shall put no motion unless a motion is first made to suspend the rules. The ques tion is upon the adoption of Mr. Pursell's . substitute. Mr. GASTI.-,-F —I moved Mr. HOWELI-Mr. President, I agree with all the gentemen,who have expressed their views, and with every other person, in the importance of the subject of public education. I think it becoming to this Convention to act upon this, as well as every other subject that comes before it; that it prove itself to be a deliberative body. In 1845 the constitution contained a provision upon the same matter, if not in the same words as the substitute now under c onsideration. Many of the members will recollect that it was at that time the subject of public education as a State institution was first a t t empt ed. As it progressed in the machinery of State, considerable diffleulty was felt in establishing the system so as to be beneficial throughout the whole State,, instead of in New Orleans alone. Here it has become a fixed, established system, working admirably in its effects and results. I am aware that the majority of the Convention now sitting is composed at present of members residing ini the city of New Orleans, and who know very little of the practical operation of the public school system in the country parishes, and it is highly. important that these gentlemen should inform themselves, if not already familiar with the subject. It will occur to their minds, upon a little reflection, that a system that will work well in the city of New Orleans may not work ass well in the country parishes where the power. Internal improvements is not so important; it is next in order; and the n ex t is public education. After the maturer minds are provided for will be the time to look out for the education of the rising generation. When that question comes up, Mr. President, I propose to give this Convention some of my views. If it is forced upon me, I w ill t ak e occasion to do so to-day; but I think there are substitutes and amendments that demand th e a tt ention of the members of the Convention, and that the further discussion of th e question should lie over until all the p rece d ing reports shall ihave been a dopted. W ith the se remarks I move that all further debate on the report, and that all action of this Convention th ereon be postponed, to come up in its regular order. Mr. HILLS- Mr. President, I second the motion. Mr. HENDEmRSO, —Mr. President, I should like to kn o w if we dispose of every question that comes befor e us in this summary manner, how we are to do any business. [A voice: " Put a rider on."] For my own part, I am tired of i t, an d if this is the way we are to procee d, I shall minsist on the observance of the rules which the Convention has adopted. (Reads rule.] The other time we could postpone the o rd er o f th e day to take up a question out of order, and- now it is mo ved to postpone a that to take up something else. Now I wish to call for the reading of the 16th rule. Mr. HowEnLI-Mr. President,' I agree with the views of the gentleman on my right. If we should. not, by adopting his motion, find ourselves out of business for some days, I would inquire if we have anything further for to-day, or for Monday, or Tuesday. I know we have for Wednesday. 133 DEBATES IN THE CONMENTION FOR THE REVISION population is sparse and scattered, and we will not always be absolutely necessary, should do well to regulate our educational and if the Legislature should at any time operations in reference to thatfact. One of find it unnecessary, I would give them powthe first things'suggested is the appoint- er to abolish it. It is not such a question ment of a superintendent of public educa- as I believe would be dangerous to leave to tion. It will be remarked that this Con- further legislation. It is different in its vention does not attempt to designate the character from some others, without which duties of the superintendent. It simply we cannot have a republican government. provides that one shall be elected, and In our system of government there are three leaves the fixing of his duties to the Gen- departments necessary to its existence, the eral Assembly. It was contended, when Legislative, iExecutive and the Judicial, and the adoption of the system of 1845 was dis- I think it unsafe to leave the distribution of cussed, that after the system was once either of these powers to one of the others. adopted and put in operation, that the ne- But when you come to other matters, that cessity for a superintendent would cease. are not essential to the existence of the govIt was warmly urged, prior to the adoption ernment, I do not think it dangerous to of the constitution of 1852, that after the leave them to the legislators to dispense organization of the system the necessity with these officers, and place their duties for a superintendent would cease, and that upon other officers, if they shall think the Convention ended the controversy, very public welfare will be benefited by so wisely, in my opinion, and left the question doing, and I think that no gentleman on, to the Legislature to dispense with the this floor should desire this Convention-to office when it should be found no longer adopt a policy which may prevent the necessary, in the same manner as they fixed people, through their representatives in the his duties. Now, if we find that we shall General Assembly, from making a change have such an officer and leave it to the Gen- of that kind, if they think necessary, witheral Assembly to fix his duties, why may out the necessity of calling a convention to we not leave it to the General Assembly to change the constitution. The office was dispense with the office if they shall find it fixed in the constitution of 1845, but in 1852 unnecessary. a different policy was adopted, and it was Indeed, I hear it said that the State treas- changed, leaving it for the Legislature to urer may perform all the duties with the abolish it, when, in their opinion, it became assistance of parish superintendents, and I no longer necessary. These are my views no longer necessary. These are my views believe the system is practicable. I be- on this question. I may be wrong, but I assstaceof arih upeintndnts an Ion this question. I may be wrong, but I ,ystm i prctiabl. Ibe-am willing to learn from anybody, and from lieve that with a superintendent in each amwilling to learn from anybody and from parish that the treasurer or some other everbod. If they ca show me a better plan,ody I shaleldy avcateit sho Ie bthinkr officer of the State department would be plan, I hall gladly advocate it. I think, able to perform all the duties which would however, that we should adhere as much as be imposed upon the State superintendet. possible to the work of the constitution of But, sir, I admit the necessity now for a 1852, and only depart from it when it fails State officer, because I believe that the sys- to come up to the spirit of the age and the tem will be materially modified. I believe advancement of civilization; and I think the new element introduced into this subject this is one of the cases where a departure will make it necessary to have the constant from the plan of 1852 is not required. attention of a superintendent to whom that Mr. HARNA.N —II regard to fixing the time particular business should be referred. Af- of office at four years, without any restricter the system is regulated, when it is tion upon him, I certainly second the rebrought into working order so as to make marks of my friend Judge Howell. it uniform throughout the State, I do not Mr. STocKsEMr. President, it seems to think it would-be good policy for this Con- me that this is taking a longitude altogether vention to say that there should always be unjustifiable by the tenor of the substitute; such an officer, because I believe that it but al that contains a provision that the du 134 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 135 or municipal offices not qualified voters of the State, or who have not complied with the oath of the President's proclamation of December 8, 1863, that it is the sense of this Convention they should be promptly re moved by the governor of the State and mayor of the city, who are respectfully requested to enbforce this resolution. Mr. FOLEY-I move the rules be sus pended for its adoption. Mr. DAVIES —I move the gentlemen offer ing the resolution furnishes the names of those holding offices who have not complied with the order. [A motion to lay the resolution on the table was lost.] Mr. HEAR-This is the second edition of the resolution introduced by the same gen tleman on the second day of the Conven ion. I wish to understand if this Con vention is -going to form itself into an inquisition. If so, let us know it, and elect a grand inquisitor, and have our racks of torture. I would like to know what we have to do with the officers of the city of New Orleans-what right have we to dic tate to the governor and mayor whom to retain in office and whom to turn out. If I understand the reason why I am sent here it is to revise and amend the constitution; the appointment of officers has nothing to do with it. The primary object that has brought us together, as I understand it, is -to wipe out slavery, and let us go to work and grapple with the question. I see no use in consuming the valuable time of this Convention i acting on frivolous resolu tions, and I call this so, with all due respect to the gentleman. We have been here four weeks, and so far have done nothing. Our time has been spent in debating resolutions and motions to lay on the table, and if we go on in this way we shall stay here the balance of the year, and the Convention will become a laughing stock. I feel the responsibility of the posision I occupy, and wish to discharge the duties I am entrusted with. I intend to offer a motion which, I think, will simplify our proceedings and enable us to go on with business. My mo tion is this: Resolved, That all reports of the different committees, all amendments and all substiR tutes which have been offered, be laid on MONDA,Y, May 2, 1864. [The Convention met at 12 o'clock x., and the roll being called, the following gentlemen answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley,Brott,Burke,Campbell, Cook J. K., Crozat, Davies, Dufresne. Duane, DUke, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier., Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Purscell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauff, i er, tnsh Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wells, and Wilson-66 members. There being no quorum, the sergeant-atarms was directed to bring in absent members. Messrs. Cutler, Baum, Mendiverri, Buckley, Collin, Cook T., Thorpe, Beauvais, Wenck and Cazabat, having taken their seats, the. president announced that a quorum was present. The minutes of Saturday were read and adopted.] Mr. TEIRRY-I have a resolution which I desire to offer. Whereas, Several persons are holding offices, State and municipal, who are not citizens of the State, or qualified, as per order of the President, December 8, 1863; therefore, be it Resolved, That all persons holding State DEBATES IN THE (CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION the table, subject to call, and that we take up the constitution of 1852, beginning with the preamble, and taking it up, article by article, and section by section, and act upon them. By doing this we will get through within thirty days. Mr. C~,AnAT —I second the motion. Mr. HEF'DERSON,-Another similar resolution was brought before this Convention, but under different circumstances. It was then suggested that the offices of all the various office-holders of the city and State, who had not taken the iron-clad oath, should be forthwith declared vacant. On that occasion I voted against it, as I thought it interfered with the province of the governor and mayor; but upon this occasion I find a motion that meets my fall approbation, and particularly at this time, as I have good reasons to believe that there are numerous persons holding offices in the city who are defying us, and wish for the defeat of Gen. Banks. I would have all such expelled, and therefore I hope it will be the sense of this Convention that they should be removed forthwith, whether they hold State or municipal offices. [Applause.] When it comes to instructing the governor, we do it in the way of recommendation. I ask if we do not stand here to-day elected on the governor's ticket, and did not our opponents unite on the radical and copperhead tickets? Therefore we stand with the administration and with Gen. Banks, and last, though not least, with Michael Hahn, because he is in the midst of a struggle sustaining the President and the commander of our forces. When we find men are holding office through the clemency of the executive of the State and the mayor of the city, and defying us, it is time they were removed, and I would not have them remain one day. Rather than copperheads, opposed to the administration, give me an out and out Jeff. Davis man, who openly advocates the dissolution of the Union, but the copperhead is one day a Davis man and the next a Lincoln man. A man in the Confederacy is bound to be a Jeff. Davis man, or hang; but we permit men here to spit upon and revile us, and say they are good Union. men at the same time that they are carrying. out measures against the administration. I am for the Union, right or wrong. [Applause.] There are many here who, sympathizing with the party adverse to us, would rather see Zach. Taylor's son here to-day than Gen. Banks, and I wish they were destroyed politically, because they are the worm that is eating the body politic, and by degrees may destroy it. I do not wish to ostracise men for their opinions. On ordinary occasions I am a Democrat, but now, there is but one question, and th at is: "I Akre you in favor of your country?" If Gen. Grant or Gen. Banks opposed the adminis tration, I would advocate their an nihilation as soon as that of these men holding offices. I vote for- a nd sustain t his proposition on the ground that it is right in principle. I have a slight knowledge of the mayor and of the governor, and have good reason to beli e ve they st a n d o n the right ground in regard to this question; therefore, I am in favor of having the opinion of this Convention, and want no minority vote. I want more than two-thirds of those who are elected here to say if any man who sjmpathizes with those against us holds an office, he shall be re-, moved. Mr. MONTANAr-I am not here to censue the appointments of the governor and mayor. I have no doubt if the gentleman, or any member of this Convention, will go to these officers and state that such persons are not citizens, they will be at once removed. I shall vote against the resolution, for the reason that I do not wish to censure the governor and mayor. They may not know that these persons are not qualified; and if any member knows of any such, let him report them. [The resolution was again read by the secretary; and on the yeas and nays being demanded, the roll was called, with the following result: ] YFEAs-Messrs. Bailey, Bell, Bofill, Boti zano, Bromley, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T.. Crozat, Collins, Duke, Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley,.Geier, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Kavanagh, Maa., Niillspaigh, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne John, Poy.not, Purcell J., Putsell Samuel, Schroeder. 136 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Seymour Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, To the president and members of the State Stumpt, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Constitutid?ial Convention: Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells and Wil- TME-YurCommitteeonCredenson-5f. GENTLEME-Your Committee on Creden t Messr sbell, ustii ttti als, after due examination of all witnesses -N.ixrs —Miessrs. A,bell, Austin, Barrett, Baumi, Beauvais. Brott. Buckley, Birke' produced before us by Mr. T. F. McGuire, Cuter, Heard, Kugle contesting the election of Mr. B. H. Orr, the Cutlei Fuller ai. nel delegate from the Tenth Representative Mann, Mendiverri, Montamat, Montague, Murphyv a. W. Ong Schnurr andDistrict, beg leave to report that Mr. B. H. Thomas-21 *'!Orr has been duly elected as a delegate to this Convention, to represent the Tenth [The resolution was adopted.] Representative District of the city of New Mr. HE-'NDERiSON-I believe I voted oil this Orleans; that he is duly qualified and is question under misapprehension, and spoke entitled to a seat in this Convention. accordingly. I opposed the other resolu- ll of which is respectflly submitted. All of which is respectfully submitted. Joux-, P. MNO.-,TAMvr, Chairmn. tion on the ground that no names were mentioned. [Cries of i out of order.']? I Mr. SVI,LI VAN —1 move that the report be wvish to reconsider the question, and if any received. gentleman knows the names of such State [The motion was carried.] or city officers to be removed, to specify M,r. HENDERsoN' —One of our members, them, so that our application will not be IMr. Montague, desires leave of absence on ..lhstract. Therefore, I move a reconsidera- account of illness in his family. I move it dion. be granted. Mr. lHEIY-I nmove to lay the 1motioii on I[The request was granted.] the table. Mr AuSTiN, —I call the attention of the [The motion was carried.] Convention to the fact that Mr. Howes, Mr. BRoIititi —I offer the ollowing reso- from the ward I have the honor to repre ~~lull~tion:~ ~sent, has only been in the Convention four Resolved, That the future sessions of this davs. It is not on account of sickness, and Convention shall not be of less than four s. si hours' duration, and that the pay per diem ie ha drawn his pay. I now ask what is of the members of this Convention shall our duty in regard to it. cease on and after the fortieth day fiom its MIr. TERRvY —I miove it be referred to the organization. XCommittee on Absent Members. Mr. MoxTAM,Tr —l mov(, to sulspend the [The motion was carried.] rules for its adoptiol. [A communication from the Secretary of [Carried.] State was read by the secretary, enclosing Mr. HEAIL~Y —-1 move to lIv thle'esollitioltI the returns of the election of a delegate to ili the table. the Convention in the parish of Jefferson, [The motion was. carried.] to fill the place of Christian Roselius, re PRESIDEN\ l-o.Reports or coimmittees are signed.] iii order. [Referred to the Committee on Creden Mr. Fost)cK-The Committee on Legisla- tials.] live Department will report to-morrow-. l~ rsIl)EN.rT —Unfinished b)usiiess is now Mr. Si.tw —The Committee on Ordinance in order. lep)orts progress." Mr. WILSON —I call foi- the reading of Mr. 3MON.XT.AAIT —AS chair-iall ot the Corii- Mr. Grtneberg's resolution. iiittee on Credentials, I beg leave to report Mir. Hiii,-,-I rise to a point of order. I thllt Mr. MfcGuire, who selit a protest believe the first unfinished business is the ga.inst thi electioii of Mr. Orr. desires vote on the resolution of Mr. Purcell, for pernuission to withdraw it. I the first article of the report of the Com Mfr. SUtI_Lt..N —I move lihc be allowved to iiiittec oil Public Education, which was dewithdraw it. clared lost, when it was found there was [The motion was carried.] not a quorum present. [Mr. Montamat then read the ieport of lPaEsIDENT-The first business is on the the Committee on Credentials:] | resolution. 18 137 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. S. PURSELL-If necessary, I renew my motion to adopt that substitute. [The article and substitute were read.], ART. -. There shall be elected a superintendent of public education, who shall hold his office for the term of four years. His duties shall be prescribed, and compensation -fixed, by the general assembly. Mr. CAMPBELL-I move to amend bv striking out "four " and inserting "two " for the term of the superintendent's of: MR. GRUNEBERG?S PREAMBLE AND RESOLUTION. Whereas, The Constitutional Convention of the State of Louisiana has been called principally to decide on the abolition of slavery in this State; whereas, the adoption of this measure, in whatever manner or form, will necessarily require great modifications in all parts of the organic law of the State; whereas, for these reasons this Convention cannot, or ought not to, come to a final decision on the reports of any of the standing commaittees on constitutional amendments, before voting on emancipation; and whereas, the question of emancipation being the most important of all, requires the longest and most mature deliberation of this Assembly; be it therefore Resolved, That this Convention will take in consideration: First, the reports of all the standing committees on constitutional amendments, with substitutes and amendments thereto, except the report of the Committee on Emancipation; but that they shall not pass further than a second reading; that then the report of the Committee on Emancipation shall be taken up, and be then regularly passed to a final vote; and that afterwards the reports of all the other standing committees shall pass to their third reading, and to a final vote thereon; and, moreover. Resolved. That this convention shall only adjourn from day to day until the reports of all the standing committees on constituitional amendments, except that of Emancipation, shall have passed a second reading. the standing committees on constitutional Mr. FOLEY —I move to divide the article. amendments, before voting on emancipa- [The motion was lost.] tion; and whereas, the question of emancipation being the most important of al The question of alopting the resolution requires the longest and most mature den- was put and declared lost. The yeas and liberation of this Assembly; be it therefore nays were called for, and the result was as Resolved, That this Convention will take follows: in consideration: First, the reports of all YEAs-Messrs.Abell,Bailey,Barrett, Beauthe standing committees on constitutional Yw-essAelBie,art,eu amendments, with substituties and amend- vais, Bell, Bennie, Bonzano. Bromley, Brott, ments thereto, except the report of the Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Crozat, Committee on Emancipation; but that they Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Enshall not pass further than a second read- nis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Gasing; that then the report of the Committee tinel, Geier, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Heard, on Emancipation shall be taken up, and be Hire, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Murphy E., Nor-. then regularly passed to a final vote; and Millspaugh Montague Murphy E., Northat afterwards the reports of all the other mand, Ong, Orr, Paine J., Pintado, Purcell standing committees shall pass to their J, Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, third reading, and to a final vote thereon Stocker, Stumpt, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, th,and, toreovr' Thomas and Wenck- 55. Rsland, moreover sa nlYEAS-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Cazabat, Resolved, That this convention shall only Cook J. K., Cook T., Edwards, Gorliuski, adjourn from day to day until the reports Cook J. K, Cook T, dwards, Gorlins.i, of all the standing committees on constita- Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Murphy M. W., tionf all the stamendments, except thatees of Eman- Newell, O'Conner, Poynot, Schnurr, Spelcipation, shall have passed a second read- | My, Sullivan, Thorpe, Waters, Wells and Wilson-22. ing. I L son C. H. L. GRUNEBERG [The substitute was therefore adopted.] The second section of the report was Mr. WILSON —I move that the resolution read with Mr. Sullivan's substitute. be adopted. Substitute [The motion was carrried.] [The motion was arrried.] The general assembly shall establish free PRESIDENT-The order of the day now I public schools throughout the State, for all comes. ifree white children. by general taxation or Mr. HaLs-If I understand the rule in otherwise, and all moneys shall be distrib regard to unfinished business it is this: the uted to each parish, in proportion to the regard ounnsebsnsii number of white children, between such first article of the report of'the Committee ages as shall be fixed by the general ason Public Education was under considera- sembly. tion. Mr. S. Pursell offered a substitute Mr. FOLEI-Y-I move to lay the substituite which was voted upon and declared to be on the table. carried. The yeas and nays were called [Lost, by a vote of 47 to 23.] for, when it was found there was not a quo- Mr. STAUFFER-I voted against the amendrum present. A motion to adjourn was ment for the reason fhat it is almost word then made and carried. If I understand it,i for word the same as the substituite of Mr. the business before the house is the vote on S. Pursell; therefore I move that all subthat substitute. stitutes brought up hereafter, that are iden PRESIDENT-The motion to adoptmust be tical, be laid on the table. renewed. Mr. STOCKER-I think the motion of the 1.38 flee. I AND AMFNDMNT OF THE CONSTITUTIO OF L tOIAA. gaw such an illustration of the manner of piling one amendment upon another as here, and that motions to adjourn and lay upon the tabie never prevailed so extensively as here. gentleman an extraordinary one. For in stance, I take up a resolution, and, by eras ing or changing a word, alter the whole sense. It strikes me there is a vast differ ence between the two amendments referred to. Mr. Pursell's says the money raised shall be distributed in proportion to the number of children;.the other in propor tion to the number of white children. That, f think, is a very wide difference. MNfr. SELLIr —-JMfy substitute is to the second article of the original report. It strikes out colored children altogether, be cause I think white people have enough to do to attend to their own affairs, with out attending to the education of negro children. Mr.'fHORPE-I believe that in all delibe rative bodies, where special committees are appointed to bring in reports, that those reports shall have some consideration, and I believe that a few remarks are perfectly correct. The whole gist of this discussion, if nar rowed down, is, whether black children of the State shall be educated or not. I think we cannot pass hastily upon so important a matter as this proposition; and I think, too, it is a very singular proceeding upon the part of members upon this floor, who hold their offices under the call of Gen. Banks, to come here and presume to elect who the children shall be, who shall be edUcated, when his orders imperatively provide for the education of these very children, and levy a tax for that purpose. [Applause.] It would take me a full half hour, if limited to it, to give my ideas upon the importance of this question. It is one of very serious and tremendous importance, and I do not understand how it is that a resolution containing such a matter, of so great import, so materially affecting the interest of the State, so materially affecting the interests of the gentlemen who are members of this Convention, in all future time, should be brought up here with so little importance. Now, gentlemen, if I may be permitted to make some criticism, I would say that we have been here nearly a month, and with some experience I can say, I never. We are here for a most solemn and serious purpose, not that of making a new constitution for the State of Louisiana, but to amend and correct the one already existing. This is one of the most solemn and in one respect the most glorious things to be entertained; but while we have some thirty State constitutions before us, and three or four already in this very State, we have, so far as work is concerned, if done honestly, very little to do. I believe all we have to do in this convention is to pass some regulations with regard to the education of the co lored ch ildren, which will meet the changes to be made., I suppose, by the Emancipation Committee. It is also proposed to make some changes in'regard to the judiciary. If these are the only things, all these discussions and piling aenmendments on amendments are out of place, and, in my opinion. unnecessary. I do not know, Mr. President, how to get this Convention clear from all this noise and contention. It seems to me we are here to discuss rules and not amendments, and I say to gentlemen again that we come here to work and treat these subjects with some solemnity. Ido not believe we come he e with the right spirit and sense of duty. We are not engaged in any ordinary transaction, nor as a legislative body, nor in making' any laws; but in'amending and revising a constitution already in existence. We have power to strike out all objectionable features, to select what we please. I hold that the constitution of 1852 was passed by as good a deliberative body as was ever assembled in this or any other State. What is the reason we cannot take it up and follow it verbatim, except where changes must be made. Do that and nothing else. Is not that enough? We propose alterations in regard -to the judiciary; to engraft upon it also the principle of emancipation, and this last we must do or perjure ourselves. We propose further to arrange this school system. I 10 190 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION I wish to put on record, in regard to my- going through the country, murdering and self, that I stand here prepared to attend to butchering? business only, and hope any gentleman will I tell you a strong feeling is rapidly call me to order if I move to table or ad- growing up at the North in opposition to journ if there is any business before this this. Look at the files of Northern papers body. We have a liberal compensation, which came to us yesterday; they are one which I voted for and would again. For shriek of agony at the horrors of -this civil that compensation I am willing to do a fair war, and I say that if you do not now make day's work, and then we deserve our pay, a constitution equal to the occasion, worthy hut if we trifle as we have done, we are. of Louisiana, the opportunity is past, and open to criticism, and the finger of censure you lose a most glorious opportunity of must be justly pointed against us. [Hear, glorifying yourselves and preserving the hear.] We can do our work here in sixty country. days, and make a good Constitution. We Mr. ABEIrL-Mr. President, it does strike are legislating not only for Louisiana, but me with a good deal of force that all our all the States; and I wish you to understand work here is a good deal on the principle this fact: that the president of the United of putting the cart before the horse. There States, and Gen. Banks, and certain parties are some nations I believe who manage to who sympathize with the rebellious States, do work in that way, and they succeed to have towards us a kindly feeling, and have some extent. But, sir, I should like to know, been mainly instrumental in getting up and and therefore ask for information, what ordering this Convention, which is to bring right we have here to presume so far upon back Louisiana under civil instead of mili- future legislation as to attempt to assume tary power. If we fail to come up to their,such a state of facts as is contemplated by expectations, and the expectation of the the remarks of the gentleman who has just North, what will be the result? I tell you spoken, with respect to a matter upon which this is the last time the protection of the there has been no action in this Convention. United States will be held out to any re- I How do we know that the master would bellious State in this nation. [ Hear, hear.] permit the slave to go to the schools if we esIf we fail, nothing hereafter will settle our tablish them. We are sent here to amend status but the sword, and if we do not do a constitution, but we might as well adjourn our work well, we do not deserve anything sine die as to attempt to persist in doing else. business in the manner in which this Con What are the facts. Every single day -eli)tion seems determined to proceed. Here that we meet here, and hesitate to frame a we are quibbling over the education of free State Constitution, is so much against slave children. I know the gentleman has us. No matter what may be said to the told us that no such persons exist, but I contrary, this war is rapidly assuming an wvould as soon trust to the Constitution and aspect conflicting with every christian princi- laws of the United States, and to the propie. Our soldiers are murdered in cold blood; clamation of Abraham Lincoln, as to the the scenes being enacted cry to Heaven statement of the gentleman. And the proand will fill the civilized world with horror. clamation of.Abraham Lincoln of January, I ask youi to look at those men who fell at' 1863, declares that this very district shall be Fort Pillow, who were not only mrdered in exempted from its effects. What, then, are cold blood, but burned, buried alive; and we legislating for? Is it to educate the see what a war is being fastened upon us. i slaves in that part of this State still in the I ask if ever in the annals of christendom or Confederacy. the history of mankind, there is any prece- I ask upon what authorityi ask upon dent; in a State like Louisiana, fairly and what principles, or b what right you can honestly taken possession of by a hostile legislate for the education of slave children army, for citizens, without authority of the before you have taken any action to change law, arming themselves in band and under their status. How can you presume, before theC name of gunerrillas and j?ay-hawker~s, |.sluch action is taken, that it will be done? 140 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. What logic, or in plainer words, what sense mated by the gentleman, and if I had the is there in such a mode of proceeding with papers here I could demonstrate it, I believe. the work which you have laid out? I con- He has never threatened us. But, sir, we fess I can see in it neither logic nor sense, are told that everything X to be turned upand Mr. President, I think I shall make a side down if we do not make such a constimotion before I sit down, and if I do not tution as will please certain men. Now, sir. think of it I hope some other gentleman will, if we make any constitution we should make to postpone this matter luntil we shall know such a one as will suit and please the peoexactly where and how we stand. ple of Louisiana; we should not go beyond I say, that notwithstanding Gen. Banks their wishes and their rights. We have no has issued his proclamation, declaring so right to make constitutions for the North much of the constitution of 1852, and the nor for the Confederacy. We must consult laws relating to slavery, null, because there the wants and the rights of the people of is no class of persons to whom they apply- Louisiana, whom we represent, and we are notwithstanding these laws and the adjudi- bound to represent them faithfully. Look cations thereon are of the highest and most for yourselves at the surrounding circumundoubted authority, he has laid them pros- stances, and say whether your fellow-cititrate. I do not question the authority of zens will approve the steps you may take Gen. Banks in the premises, or inquire into in this matter. his reasons for adopting such a measure. It But, sir, this is not a new question. The is a military measure, made necessary per- great men who framed the constitution of haps by the existence of war, but the the United States, the great charter of your existence of the military power will at some liberties, had this whole matter before them. time be at an end here; and when such That body, comprising such great names as time shall arrive, when the force that has those of Washington, Franklin and Madilaid them postrate is removed, they will be son, the wisdom of the nation, did not see revived. When the State has resumed her fit, in their wisdom, to take such action as sovereignty as one of the States of this we assume is already taken by this body. Union, as resume it she will as soon as her people have the power and privilege to speak, these laws will again be in force. One of the gentlemen from the Second trict; but, sir, such language will not District (Mr. Thorpe), tomy astonishment, frighten men of the South; no man will be has threatened us with Gen. Banks and the frightened by it. If we believe that it will North. If the North has a constitution to be to the interest of the people to free the submit for the government of this people, I negroes, we should do it; but not under have no objection. But, sir, that this Con- any other consideration should this Convenvention. called together bly the sovereign tion alter in any respect their constitution. people of the State to represent their inter- I know it is said by some that this is a Free fsts, that they should stand here to make a State already. But, sir, I know that the constitution to ilease the people of the President excepted this partof the State in North, or Gen. Banks, is preposterous. his emancipation proclamation. We are And, sir, Gen. Banks does not expect it as therefore standing upon the same ground far as he is concerned(], I know he does not. we stood on before this proclamation was If he had intended to make a constitution issued, except so far as the proclamation of for this people, instead of a convention at a Gen. Banks goes; and whether that proclacost of fifty thousand dollars a month, he mation was intended to humiliate the peocould have employed a clerk to make it at ple or as a permanent w-ar measure, I am a much less sum. He expected us to act as not here to inquire. He has taken the matfreemen. lie expected us to make it as ter under his own control for the present, honest mnen, and to be free hereafter. He and during the war, perhaps. But for the meant no such thing a, has been inti- futtre —he has ealled us together in order 141 DEVBAT1S IN tlE CONVENTION FOR tE REVISION that we may say what is to the interest of Louisiana, not to-day, but hereafter. I know that there are some gentlemen here who differ with me in opinion. I know that there are some who entertain opinions diametrically opposed to the opinions that I entertain; but, sir, I stand here S one who never believed in slavery as a principle. I never believed in the Bank of the United States; I never really believed in any banks; I believe them to be overreaching institutions. But, sir, slavery has come down to us through legitimate channels,. having taken root in the old world even before the discovery of America. Yes, sir, in the most ancient times slavery existed, not only in the nations of the earth, properly so speaking, but it existed during the time of the theocracy. The divine government of God over his chosen people. Abraham had servants that he bought with his money-servants that he bought of strangers. (Gen, verses 26 to 27.) Egypt, where we find the earliest traces of civilization, had its slaves and was the hot-bed of slavery, is in the sacred scriptures termed ' the house of bondage." Greece, the great nursery of the arts and sciences, had her slaves. At one time in Attica, one of the States, there were 400,000 slaves and but 21,000 resident burghers and 10,000 foreigners. Egina, as we learn from Aristotle, had 470,000, and Corinth, according to Timaceus, 460.000 slaves, a greater proportion of slaves than was ever known to exist in any portion of this land. Cicero tells us that in Rome at one time no less than ten to twenty thousand slaves were owned by a single planter. But, Mr. President, this is a part of the system which, as a stream, has run down to the present-unbroken as time itself. Even at the advent of our Savior into this world, Roman slavery, in its most horrid ard terrible form, existed. Theirs was a system most cruel and bar "Order is nation's first la*, and this conlest, Somie are and must be greater than the rest" Let us trace it rapidly down the stream of time to the present, and what d o we find. Why, sir. we find that until abo ut the nine hundredth year of the Chr istian era, no ne hut th he white and Asiatic races were en slaved. But, sir, when the sleek, fat, an d well-kept negro is called a slave, the n g oes up a howl that reaches the heavens-a howl of unmitigated wret chedn ess, on account of the suffering of the well-fMr d, wiell-kept, well cared for, sleek, fat, and happy negro. I defy any gentleman here, sir, to look at the facts as they exist, and say to this as sembly that the system is a cruel one. Why, sir. it is a patriarchal institution. The master is a kind of patriarch to the negroes, and they are guarded as the apple of his eve, and woe to the man that attempts to invade one of the plantations, and ventures to lay a hand upon a single negro-both blacks and whites, sir, will fall upon him without mercy. This you all know as well as I do, or can tell you. The negro, under our present systenm of slavery, is well fed, well taken care of, and well provided for; and, Mr. President, I consider slavery one of the best evils that exists upon the earth —one of the best, be cause the negro is benefited by it, because it keeps them out of houses of prostitution, out of our jails and workhouses, and pre vents them from being burdens upon socie ty. But gentlemen here say that they wish to protect the negro; their sympathies are so strongly aroused and the injuries to the negro so strenuously urged that one would suppose that these were the wretched part of mankind, the only wretched, distressed and down-trodden of our age. How came it so? IHave they visited the cellars of New York, or the dens or infamy in this city? Have they seen the poor widow toiling incessantly for (t virtuous and insufficient support, until forced to a life of crime to supi port herself'. Have we no protection to offer these 9 IMr. AUSTIN,.-I rise to a point of order; the gentleman is getting away from the point under disculssion. PRESID)ENT [to JMr. Austin]~The gentle 142 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. may be imported until a certain time. It provides, also, that fugitives owing service or labor, &c., shall be returned; and once in making up a representative basis. It has been legislated upon for three quarl ters of a century past, and repeated, and uniform judicial decisions have recognized it and declared it to be property. It has not only been recognized and held as pro perty by the various State courts, under the laws of the land, but some of the wisest and ablest judges that have ever graced the bench of any nation, such as Chief Justice Marshall, and a host of others, have all given decisions with a uniformity almost unparal leled, recognizing it, calling it slavery, and treating it in every respect as property. Now let me ask you if we are a wiser body of men than those who have decided this species of property to be guaranteed by the great charter-the Constitution. If we are, we are the wisest body of men that has ever yet assembled. TheContittio.an.las.o.th.Unte me. That substitute does honor to the gentleman who moved it. It does honor to the State and nation. To those who have acquired a little property and have invested it in negroes, he says it is a shame that your property shall be torn from you and then that you shall be taxed to educate negro children. I say the proposition is an honor to the State and not a disgrace. I say that the levying of taxes upon us to pay for the education of a race that we expect to be torn from us, is an indignity. Why are we called upon to educate these negroes? They have been acquired and held heretofore unfler t~he laswar of the laud;* acquired'P by ertoI fmnodi wt e hrfr shall never, never sign an enactment to take one solitary dollar from the worst much less from the best of men without a f air and just remuneration for his property. As it is, we are about at one fell stroke to tear $150,000,000 of property from its legitimote owners. You will have to look them in the face. You are bound to look them in the face and to answer when they ask you the question: Why did you tear from me my property? Mr. AusTr,N-I rise to a point of orderthe gentleman has occupied more than half an hour. Prnk,SI)DENTr —He has not occupied half an hour. I am keeping the time. Mr. AUSTIN'-But, Mr. President PRDstnEsINT-The gentleman will sit down and not interrupt a member while speaking. Mr. ABETAL-All should know, Mr. Presi and orphans, $150,000,000 of property; and in addition to this, to tear from loyal owners t in this State property to the amount of at least nine or ten hundred millions. Let us return, Mr. President, to the great charter of our nation's rights, in which slavery has been acknowledged no less than three times. Once in the declaration that certain persons 1,43 dent, that I am strictly and emphatically a law abiding man. As I contended three years ago, when these streets were red with blood flowing from the veins of naturalized foreigners, that they had an inalienable right to, protection, under the constitution and laws of the United States, so I contend DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION now, that we hold our property by the most Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., indefeasible and inalienable title in the land. Schroeder, Schnurr, Stumpf, Terry, Thomas, Then I stood as I stand now. I felt that Wells, Wilson and Mr. President —-50. from a principle of manliness, from a princi- There not being a quorum present, tie ple of honor, I was bound to stand up to sergeant-at-arms was directed to procure sustain them in their rights. I am not in the attendance of absent members. favor of slavery-I am opposed to it; but, Messrs. Ariail, Balch, Batum, Beau.vais, sir, when my countrymen have acquired Bell, Campbell, Cook T., Dupaty, Fiseh, property, honestly, and under the sanction Flagg, Gastinel, Gaidry, Harnan, Hart, Hire. of the laws of the State and of the nation, I Kugler, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., wvill defend it while God blesses me with Ong, Orr, Smith, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan. health and strength to do so, by my vote at Thorpe and Waters having taken their seats. least. the president declared a quorum present. PRESIDEN,r —The half hour is up. I The minutes of yesterday were read and Mri. THORPE-:Mr. President, I move that adopted.] the gentleman be permitted to proceed with Mr. SULI.IVAN —-Mr. President, 1 have a his remarks. resolution I desire to offer, to lie over under Mr. AUSTIN —I move to adjourn. the rules: [The motion was lost.] _Resolved, That the clerks, officers and( Mr. MONTAAT-I move that the rules be employds of this Convention be and are hereby exempt from serving, during the suspended, in order to allow the gentleman sesison of this Convention, as jurors in the to proceed with his argument. several District Courts of this parish. [Mr. Montamat's motion was made and Mr. MONTAMA —Mr. President, I desire to carried.] offer a resolution: Mr. ABEL —Mr. President, it is said that Resolved, That the resolution adopted )by one good turn deserves another. I am not this House fixing the hour of 12 o'clock i-. well and the gentlemen have doubtless per- for the meeting of this Convention, be and ceivead tha ge n- v o iein fai lig..e g ntles p- the same is hereby repealed. ceived that my voice is failing. The gentle- Resolved, further, That this House will men have been very kind in giving me per- hereafter meet at 11 o'clock A, M. mission to go on; but I would be extremely Mr. FOSDIcK —I move to suspend the rules obliged ifthey would adjourn till to-morrow, for the purpose of taking up the resolution and give me a little time, say fifteen or of Mr. Montamat. twenty minutes, in the morning. [The motion was lost.] Mr. MONTAMAT-I move to adjourn till 11 Mr. FosDIc K —— Mr. Presid(lent, I desire to o'clock to-morrow morning. submit the report of the Committee on the PRE,SIDEXT-That is out of order, unless a Legislative Department: motion is first made to suspend the rules. ITE]ORT OF TilE COMMIT1TEE ON I,EGISLATIV; [A motion was then made to adjourn, and DEPARTMENT. on being put to the House was carried.] To the president and mnemberts of the (oitv,e, tion for the Revision and Amend?tent o/' TUESD MaIy 3, 1864 the Constitution of the State of Loitisiait: TUESDv, My 3, 864. The undersigned, members of the Coro [The Convention was called to order byTeLdriie,mmbr fteCi-t The Convention was caled to order by iiiittee on Legislative Department have the the president at 12 o'clock M., and after, honor to submit the following leport prayer by the Rev. Mr. Horton, the roll was Art. —-. The legislative power of the State called and the following gentlemen answer shall be vested in two distinct branches th' one to be styled the House of Representa ~~to their names: -tives, the other the Senate, and both the Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bennie, Bofill, General Assembly of the State of Louisiana. 3Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Collin, Art. —. The members of the House of' Cook J. K., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane, Representatives shall continue in service Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Fosdick, for the term of two years fronm the day of Foley, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Henderson, the closing of the general elections. Healy, Heard, Hills, Howes, Kavanagh, Art. —. Representatives shall be chos,,ii Maas, Mann, Millspaugh, Murphy M. W., on the first Monday in November every two Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Paine J. T., years, and the election shall be completed 144 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 145 in one day. The General Assembly shall I For the parish of Orleans, forty-four Re meet annually on the first Monday in Janu- presentatives, to be elected as follows: ary, unless. a differqnt day be appointed by First District..........................5 law, and their sessib ns shall be held at the Second do...........................8 seat of government. Third do........................6... Art. -. Every duly qualified elector under Fourth do.........................3.. this constitution shall be eligible to a seat Fifth do.........................3... in the General Assembly; provided, that no Sixth do.........................3.. person shall be a representative or senator Seventh do.......................... 3 unless he be, at the time of his election, a Eighth do......................... 2... duly qualified voter of the representative or Ninth do......................... 2 senatorial district from which he is elected. Tenth do...........................7 Art.-. Elections for the members of the Right Bank, Algiers....................2 General Assembly shall be held at the sev- The Parish of Livingston.............. 1 eral election precincts established by law. do. St. Tammany.............1 Art.-. Representation in the House of do. Point Couple.............. 2 Representatives shall be equal and uniform, do. St. Martin............... 2 and shall be regulated and ascertained by do. Concordia................ 1 the number of qualified electors. Each do. Madison..................1 parish shall have at least one Representa- do. Franklin.................1 tive. No new parish shall be created with do. St. Mary.................1 a territory less than six hundred and twen- do. Jefferson................. 3 ty-five square miles, nor with a number of do. Plaquemines..............1 electors less than the full number entitling do. St. Bernard.............. 1 it to a Representative; nor when the crea- do. St. Charles................. 1 tion of such new parish would leave any do. St. John the Baptist.......1. other parish without the said extent of ter- do. St. James.................1 ritory and number of electors. The first do. Ascension................1 enumeration by the State authorities, under do. Assumption........:'2 this constitution, shall be made in the year do. Lafourche................2 one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, do. Terrebonne............... 2 the second in the year one thousand eight do. Iberville.................. 1 hundred and seventy, the third in the year do. West Baton Rouge......... 1 one thousand eight hundred and seventy- do. East Baton Rouge..........2 six; after which time the General Assembly do. West Feliciana............1 shall direct in what manner the census shall do. East Feliciana............1 be taken, so that it be made at least once in do. St. Helena...............1 every period of ten years for the purpose of do. Washington..............1 ascertaining the total population, and the do. Vermillion............. 1 number of qualified electors in each parish do. Lafayette................. 2 and election district; and in case of infor- do. St. Landry...............3 mality in the census returns from any dis- do. Calcasieu.................2 trict, the Legislature shall order a new cen- do. Avoyelles................ 2 sus taken in such parish or election district. (1do. Rapides..................3 At the first session of the Legislature af- do. Natchitoches............ 2 ter the making of each enumeration, the do' Sabine................... 2 Legislature shall apportion the representa- do. Caddo.................... 2 tion amongst the several parishes and elec- do. DeSoto................... 2 tion districts on the basis of qualified elec- do. Ouachita.................1 tors as aforesaid. A representative number do. Union...................2 shall be fixed, and each parish and election do. Morehouse.................1 district shall have as many Representatives do. Jackson............. 2 as the aggregate number of its electors will do. Caldwell.................1 entitle it to, and an additional Representa- do. Catahoula................ 2 tive for any fraction exceeding one-half the do. Claiborne................. 3 representative number. The number of do. Bossier...................1 Representatives shall not be more than one do. Bienville................. 2 hundred and twenty, not less than ninety, do. Carroll................2 until an apportionment shall be made. and do. Tensas................... 1 elections held under the same, in accord- do. Winn................. 2 ance with the first enumeration to be made, as directed in this article. Total........................... 118 The representation' in the Senate and And the State shall be divided into the House of Representatives shall be as fol- following senatorial districts: All that lows: portion of the parish of Orleans lying on the 19 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION The House of Representatives shall choose its speaker and other officers. Every white male who has attained the age of twenty-one years, and who has been a resident of the State twelve months next preceding the election, and the last six months thereof in the parish in which he offers to vote, and who shall be a citizen of the United States and able to read and write, shall have the right of voting. The Legislature shall have power to pass laws extending suffrage to such other persons, citizens of the United States, as by military service, by taxation to support the Government, or by intellectual fitness, may be deemed entitled thereto. No voter, on removing from one parish to another within the State, shall lose the right of voting in the former until he shall have acquired it in the latter. Electors shall in all cases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from ar rest during their attendance at, going to, or returning from elections. T Art.-. The Legislature shall provide by law that the names and residences of all qualified electors shale be registered in or der to entitle them to vote; but the registry shall be free of cost to the elector. Art.-. No pauper, no person under in terdiction, nor under conviction of any crime punishable with hard labor, shall be entitled to vote at any election in this State. Art.-. No person shall be entitled to vote at any election held in this State except in the parish of his residence, and in cities and towns divided into election precincts in the election precinct in which he resides. Art. -. The members of the Senate shall be chosen for the term of four years. The Senate, when assembled, shall have the powi-er to choose its own officers. Art.-. The Legislature, in every year in which they shall apportion representation in the HTouse of Representatives, shall divide theei State into senatorial districts. Art.-. No parish shall be divided in the formation of a senatorial district, the parish *f Orleans excepted. And whenever a new parish shall be created, it shall be attached to the senatorial district from which most of its territory was taken, or to another contiguous district, at the discretion of the the Legislature; but shall not be attached to more than one district. The number of senators shall be thirty-four, and they shall be apportioned among the senatorial dis tricts according to the electoral population contained in the several districts: -Provided, that no parish be entitled to more than seven senators. Art. -. In all apportionments of the Sen tatei the electoral population of the whole State shall be divided by the number thirty-four, and the result produced by this division shall be the senatorial ratio entitling left bank of the Mississippi river shall be divided into two senatorial districts; the First and Fourth Districts of the city of New O rlean s s hall compose one d istrict and shall elect f our senators, and the Second and Third Districts of said city shall compose the other district and shall elect three senatto rs. The parishes of Plaquemines, St. Bernard and all that pa rt of the perish of Orleans on the right bank of the Mississippi river shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of Jefferson shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of St. Charles and Lafourche shall form one district, -and shall elect one senator. The parishes of St. John the Baptist and St. James shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Ascension, Assumption and Terrebonne shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parish of Iberville shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of East Baton Rouge shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of West Baton Rouge, Point Couple and West Feliciana shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parish o! East Feliciana shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Washington, St. Tammany, St. Helena and Livingston shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Concordia and Tensas shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Madison and Carroll shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Morehouse. Ouachita, Union and Jackson shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of Catahoula, Caldwell and Franklin shall form one district. and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Bossier, Bienville, Claiborne and Winn shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of Natchitoches, Sabine, De -Soto and Caddo shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of St. Landry, Lafayette and Calcasieu shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of St. Martin and Vermillion shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of St. Mary shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Rapides and Avoyelles] shall form one district, and shall elect two genators. 146 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 147 a senatorial district to a senator. Single or contiguous parishes shall be formed into districts, having a population the nearest, possible to the number entitling a district to a senator; and if in the apportionment to make a parish or district fall short of or exceed the ratio, then a district may be formed having not more than two senators, but not otherwise. No new apportionment shall have the effect of abridging the term of service of any senator already elected at the time of making the apportionment. After an enumeration has been made as directed in -th article, the Legislature, shall not pass any law until an apportionment of representation in both Houses of the General Assembly be made. Art. -. At the first session of the General Assembly, after this constitution takes effect, the senators shall be equally divided by lot, into two classes: the seats of the senators of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year; of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year; so that one-half shall be chosen every two years, and a rotation thereby kept up perpetually. In case any district shall have elected two or more senators, said senators shall vacate their seats respectively at the end of two and four years, and lots shall be drawn between them. Art. —. The first election for senators shall be general throughout the State, and at the same time that the general election for representatives is held, and thereafter there shall be biennial elections to fill the places of those whose term of service may have expired. I Art. —. Not less than a majority of the members of each House of the General Assembly shall form a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and shall be authorized by law to compel the attendance of absent members. Art. -. Each House of General Assem-" bly shall judge of the qualifications, election and returns of its members; but a contested election shall be determined in such manner as shall be directed by law. Art.h-. E ach House of the General Assembly may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish a member for disorderly behavior, and. with a concurrence of twothirds, expel a member, but not a second time for the s tme offence. Art. -. Each House of the General Assemblv shall keep and publish weekly a journal of its proceedings, and the yeas and nays of the members on any question shall, at the desire of any two of them, be'entered on the journal. Art. —. Each House may punish. by imprisonlmenlt, any person not a member, for disrespectfull and disord~erly behavior in its presence, or for obst ructing any of its proc e edings. Such imprisonment shall not exceed ten days f or any one o ffen ce. Art.-. Neither House, during the sessions of the General Assembly, shall, without the consent of the other, a djourn for m or e t ha n thre e d a ys, n or to any other place than that in which they may be sitting. Art.-. The members of the General Assembly shall receive fr om the Public Treasb vry a compensation for their serv ices which shall be eight dollars per day, during their attendance, going to and returning from the sessions of their respective H ouses. The comp ensation may be increased, o r diminished, by law, but no alte ration shall take effect during the period o f s ervice of the members of the House of R epresentatives by whom such alteration shall have been made. No session shall extend to a period beyond sixty days, to date from its commencement, and any legislative action had after t he expiration of the s aid sixty days shall be nuol l an d void. This provision sall not apply to the first Le gislature which is to convene after the adoption of this constitution. Art.- The members of the General Assembly shall in all cases, except treason, felony, breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the sessions of their respective Houses, and going to or returning from the same, and for any speech or debate in either House shall not be questioned in any other place. Art. -. No senator or representative shall, during the term for which he was elected, nor -for one year thereafter, be appointed or elected to any civil office of profit under this State, which shall have been created, or the emoluments of which shall have been increased during the time such senator or representative was in office, except to such offices or appointments as may be filled by the elections of the people. Art. -. No person,.who at any time may have'been axcollector of taxes, whether State, parish or municipal, or who may have been otherwise entrusted with public money, shall be eligible to the General Assembly, or to any office of profit or trust, under the State government, until he shall have obtained a discharge for the amount of such collections. and for all public monevs with which he may have been entrusted. Art. —. No person, while he continues to exercise the functions of a clergyman of ary religious denomination whatever, shall be eligible to the General Assembly: Art. -. No bill shall have the force of a law, until, on three several days, it be read over in each House of the General Assembly, and fr'ee discussion allowed thereon, unless in case of urgency; four-fifths of the i DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION House is upon the substitute to the second article of the report of the Committee on Public Education presented by Mr. Sullivan, and that this substitute has for its object the limitation of the school fund to the white children of the State of Louisiana. The article for which the substitute is offered has in its terms no application to any particular children, but to the children of the State of Louisiana, and the direct limitation of the honorable member who presented the substitute is to limit the application of the fund specially to the white children. Before I proceed to make any observations on the question before this body, I desire to make some explanation as to my general views with regard to the objects of this Convention. I have first and last, from the beginning to the end-or, at least, to the present time-believe that a military government should have prevailed in this department, and I most sincerely believe that a military government would furnish a better government, a more secure government, and what is mere, Mr. President, but one government. Any subsidiary government that we can frame, or that could be made by the wisdom of men, would be rather a detriment to the interests of the people than otherwise. A military government in this department is an absolute necessity. It cannot be dis pensed with in this department; and, Mr. President, New Orleans being the centre or base of it, I believe that with a military governor, with the advice of the command ing general, the right and interests of the people would be far better subserved, and greater security afforded to them than could possibly be done by any auxiliary govern ment that could be made for the purpose at present. It is these views that I have ex pressed first and last, up to the present time at least. Two gentlemen here, bothbI believe from the No rth. urged upon the Conven tion in the debate yesterday-with a degree of- zeal that at least astonished me-that we were called together by Gen. Banks for the purpose of performing certain duties, and that those duties he would like to have per formed with extraordinary promptness. I said yesterday and i repeat to-day that Gen. House, where the bill shall be pending, may deem it expedient to dispense with this rule. Art. -. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives, but the Senate may propose amendments, as in other bills; provided they shall not introduce any new matter, under the color of an amendment, which does not relate to raisin- revenue. Art. -. The General Assembly shall reulate, by law, by whom and in what manner writs of election shall be issued to fill the vacancies which may happen in either branch thereof. Art. -. The Senate shall vote on the confirmation or rejection of officers, to be appointed by the governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate, by yeas and nays, and the names of the senators voting for and against the appointments, respectively, shall be entered on a journal to be kept for that purpose, and made public at the end of each session or before. ~ Art. -. Returns of all elections for members of the General Assembly shall be made to the secretary of State. Art.-. In the year in which a regular election for a senator of the itnited States is to take Place, the members of the General Assembly shall meet in the hall of the House of Representatives on the second Monday following the meeting of the Legislature, and proceed to the said election. GEo. A. FOSDICK, Chairman. C. W. STAUFFER, A. CAZABAT, T. M. WELLS, E. H. KNOBLOCH, W.M. H. HIRE, MARTIN SCHNURR, T. B. THORPE signs with the understanding he can object to the clause relating to what shall constitute an elector. Mr. HII,LS —I move that the report be accepted and made the order of the day for this day week. Mr. STAUFFER-I amend so as to let the report lie over until it comes up in its regular order. .Mr. HLS-I accept the amendment. The motion was carried. PRESIDENT —The unfinished business of yesterday, the second reading of the report of the Committee on Public Education, is now in order. Mr. ABFLL-Mr. President, I rise before this Convention for the purpose of submit ting some additional observations upon the subject before the Convention. I submit, Mr. President, that the question before the 148 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Banks meant no such thing. I then said that if I had the documents here I could prove it. I then said that he meant for us to meet here for the purpose and for the sole purpose of legislating for the people of Louisiana. Some efforts have been made to show that I have- prejudices against Gen. Banks, which account for my course towards him. Sir, as far as my position towards Gen. Banks is concerned, I look upon him as the man who ought to control the whole matter here at present. I look upon Gen. Banks as one who knows and can see the results and workings of his own plans as well as any man. In that respect I regard him as of equal capacity with Abraham Lincoln himself. I therefore think tha t no gentleman here can stand upon this floor and say that I have any desire to throw any obstacle in the way of Gen. Banks. But I will show this Convention that Gen. Banks made his own decree in reference to this matter, and registered it himself, without calling a convention to do it, at an expense of $50,000 a month. I say, sir, that only one week before the election of delegates to this body took place, the commanding general issued his decree in reference to the subject we have now under consideration, and this question cannot be contested by any gent leman on the floor, for here is the decree as signed by order o f Gen. Banks and Richard B. Irvin, assistant adjutant general. If we are called here simply to register his will, why did he not call upon us by ex1)ress words to do so. No, sir; he has done no such thing. We have no right to say that he has called upon us to register his will. No, sir, he has manifested his own will by his military orders. I have nothing to do with them. I have not studied them. I know only that when they are issued it is my duty to obey them, and if I do not choose to do that he will make me obey them:.. HEADQUIARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE GULF, ) New Orleans, March 22, 1864. General Orders NAro. 38. In pursuance of the provisions of General Orders No. 23, current series, for the rudi mental instruction of the freedmen of this department, placing within their reach the elements of knowledge which give intelli gence and greater value to labor, and reducing the provisions necessary therefor to an economical and efficient school system, It is ordered that a Board of Education, consisting of three persons, be hereby constituted, with the following deities and powers: 1st. To establish one or more common schools in each and every school district that has been or may be defined by the parish provost marshals under orders of the provost marshal general: 2d. To acquire by purchase, or otherwise, tracts of land, which shall be judged by the board necessary and suitable for school sites, in plantation districts, to be not less than one half acre in extent; to hold the same in trust to themselves until such schools sha ll h ave been e stabli shed, when they shall transfer all the right and title thereto that may have ve sted in th em to the superintendent of public education, or other competent State authority: 3d. To erect upon said plots of land such schoolhou ses as they m ay judge necessary and proportioned to th e wants of the population of the district, wher e there a re no buildings available and proper for school purposes. And in this, as in all other duties, they shall exerci ththe strictest eco nomy: 4th. To select and employ proper teachers for said schools, as f ar as practicable from the loyal inhabitants of Louis ian a, with powe r to require their attendance for the purpose of instruction in their duties one week at least at a normal school, to be c on ducted by the board. 5th. To purchase a nd provide the necess a r y books, stationery and appa ratus for the use of such schools, an d in addition thereto to purchase a nd furnish an o ut fit of a well-selected library, &c., fo r e ach fre e d person in the several school districts who is above the age of attending sc hoo l duty, at a cost to each, i ncludi ng a case tor the same, not exceeding two and a half dollars, which sum sha ll be in clu ded in the general tax hereinafter provided. but shall be deducted from the laborer's wa ges by his employer, whe n such books are furni shed. 6th. To regulate the course of study, discipline and hours of -instruction for children on week days, and adults on Sun days; to requfire such conformity to their regulations and such returns and reports from their tea-chers as they may deem ne cessary to secure uniformity, thoroughness and efficiency in said schools. Gentlemen, that is about half the will of Gen. Banks upon the subject. That is about half the order; the rest 6f it is in the same strain, and I will not detain the Convention any longer by reading more of 14(.) DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION it. Sufficient is it for us to know that the General's will has gone forth upon the subject-that his order has been issued and directed to a class of men here who are bound by every principle of duty to Gen. Banks to carry out his orders or to take the consequences -- the military consequences of not doing so. When the learned gentleman who first addressed the Convention was on the floor, he tol d us a great ma ny things ab out the Nor th; he told us of a great excitement that existed there-that there had been a large number of negroes killed at, Fort Pillow, and that the North was greatly excited on the subject. Well, I presume such is the case; but I should like to know, Mr. President, what the North expects to do with us loyal citizens here if we do not please them. The gentleman urged that this matter must be attended to immediately. Aye, sir, it must be done quickly, and I must confess, Mr. President, that I do not know what the great people of the North are going to do with us if we do not do something in the matter, or what we have to do with it. Gen. Banks having, by his own order, decided what was to be done. and how it was to be carried out, called upon the people of Louisiana for the purpose of assembling a convention to legislate for themselves. He assumed that the olive tree of peace has already been planted and extends its branches sufficiently to justify him in adopting this measure and in calling upon them to elect a convention to legislate for them. power to lev y a sing le cent as a tax upon the people of this State, for such a purpose, without their consent. It was a simple question'of the taxation of' tea in 1774 that had a great influence in bringing on the revolution, and the principle is not changed now. That; gentlemen, was my opinion, and it is not changed; and if I should tell you it was changed in the slightest degree, I should tell you a falsehood. We are the representatives of the people, and as such have the sole power to limit or extend the powers that belong to them. Mr. President, I fear I have already detained the Convention too long upon this point; but before leaving it I will say that the sentiments I have uttered I entertain and believe as profoundly and sincerely as though they were sent from the throne of high heaven; and I feel that I should be condemned were I to retract one iota of what I have said on this important question under discussion. Yesterday, while -I was discussing the question, I was interrupted first by a false alarm as to timne, and shortly afterwards the true mace came down, admonishing me that my half hour was up. I was discussing the rights of the slave: in my remarks upon the substitute of the gentleman, I said that if any persons were to be provided for, it was the whites and not the n egroes. That was the proposition that came from the gentleman, and was the subjeot under debate. I was endeavoring to show the Convention that it had not power, even if it had the will, to legislate for the education of the negroes, against the laws of the land-at least until they were fieemen. I said that they had no power to say that the slave should be educated, because that is not a part of the.law of the land. They have no power to say that this gelitleman's slaves or that gentleman's slaves shall be educated. He has a right to ediicate them, if he chooses, and we have no power to interfere with him, for they are his property-his through the foundation on which property in slaves rests. And, Mr. President, I went on to some extent to show that the power and the right of the owner was one that was founded in the heighth and depth, the length and breadth, Ins oneni this order he has embodied all that is requisite in order to enable him to carry out a matured mental purpose, and, right or wrong, I have nothing to say upon this question; but I admire the determination he has shown in carrying it out. In the early session of this Convention I took occasion to spread my views before the people and this Convention, on this subject. I then stated that I did not believe that any power had the right to proceed in such a manner to levy taxes. That stands as a part of the record, and my opinions on the subject are not in the least changed. I deny that the President, the Congress of the United States, or Gen. Banks, has the 1.50 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. large type comprise the whole of this great - charter-the constitution framed by this t body of great lights. We find the question raised in such a manner that no uncertainty can arise respecting it. There can be no mistaking the signification of it by any man of intelligence. I read from the constitution of the United States: ART. 5. Provided, that no amendment which may be made prior to the year 1808, shall in any manner affect the first and fourth classes in the 9th section of article i1st; and that no State, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.' Now, gentlemen, what say you to the great and powerful safeguard that this instrument throws around this species of property? Here, Mr. President, is a ratifi cation of the repeated declarations in the other portions of the constitution; but, Mr. President, this matter is not a subject on which there can be any mis apprehension. I do not undertake to say, however, that if this institution had not been known and had not existed at the time-if it' was not a known fact that slavery existed that there is anything in the constitution which would have made its existence known positively-and some ambiguity might have existed. But at that time slavery was universal throughout the land; every New England State at that time was a slaveholding State, and had not such been the case, there might have been some misunderstanding of the instrument. But, sir, you must make some allowance for the powerful intellects that framed that constitution. They fully grappled everything they saw around them. They knew well that slavery was universal thr oughout the land, and that the object and intent of that instrument could not be misunderstood. I wish to call attention to a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States on this question. This decision is not the only one in reference to the subject. It has been legislated upon in nearly all the States, and there are numerous deci,ions upon it in the State courts, and in the district and circuit courts of the United States, in the Supreme Court; and the d~ecisions all run'like a smooth, uniform, unbroken current, tha-t of the constitution t h e the laws of th e l and. I proceeded thus far, and then I desired to say that it was found in the great char ter in words not m y own, but that proceeded from such men as-I presume, if they were assembled here, they would throw us into the s hade, in p oint of experience, at any rate-the framers of the great charter of Am eri ca n f reedom. I quote the constituti on of the Un ited States: ART. 1, SEC. 3. Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which ma y b e included in this Union according to their respective numb ers, which shall be determined by adding t o t he whole number of free persons, includin g those bound to service for a term of years and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other persons, &c. Remember, gen tlemen, that this is the work of gre a t intellects. Washington owned slaves, Jefferson owned slaves,. and so did most of the others. " What did they mean?"'~ says one, " they did not say slaves.?' I say it is unworthy the mind of any man in this Convention to introduce such a quibble, for it is a mere quibble to say it does not mean slaves. I would say to my Northern friend that this is a quibble, too, that is unworthy the question under debate, and this Convention. It is a subject vast and all-important, one that in the early legislation of the country occupied the attention of a Washington, a Franklin, a Jefferson. a galaxy of such men as the world has never before seen gathered together in one deliberative body. I will now read of the constitution of the United States, where it says: ART. 4, SEC. 3. No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged frbm such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due. Who can say that they did not know what was meant by this legislation? They knew it meant slavery. It was known all over the country. Nobody misunderstood it. Every one in the great republic knew what they were doing; knew that they were deliberating upon the question of slavery, and knew that this legislation referred to slavery. About five pages in 151 I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION show me that it would not endanger the integrity and safety of the State, there is no man that would more gladly subscribe an ordinance article which would sweep slavery out of existence. As I said yesterday, respecting the case of the foreigners, I say to-day, I stood by them and I would again. I then thought, and now think, that every consideration of manliness demands that every man should defend them in their rights which they had acquir e d under the laws of this count ry. It w as t hen argued th at no other c ount ry h ad given such privileges to foreigners; but no such argume nt satisfie d me. To me, eve ry consideration of manline ss an d justice demanded that, as they had acquired rights, they were in juice entitled to those rights as fully and as just as we are entitled to the rights guaranteed to us by the constitution o f the United States in slaves. Mr. President, G od k now s I do not own a slave upon the earth. There is no one that can say that I am a slave owner. I have owned some of them in past times, but, God knows, I was not a cruel master. In my case and in my experience the slave generally had the advantage. But, sir, I do not like to see the property of others torn from them in the summary manner proposed by the gentlemen who have spoken on this question. I can see nothing that will justify us in legislating it away from them. No, sir! I would not legislate away the old hats of this Convention without you could show me that I had a right to do it. Lastly, I come to the proclamation of the president, and let us see if that stands. It says: Now, therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, president of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested, as commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the United States, in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion, do, on this first day of January, in the year of our Lord 1863, and in accordance with my purpose so to do, publicly proclaim for the full period of one hundred days, from the first day above mentioned, order and designate as the States, and parts of States, wherein the people respectively are this day in re reaches down to 1852, when we find the Supreme Court penning the following: "' No one can pretend to misunderstand it; if he does, there is not only one, but four or five thousand cases, all tending in the same direction, all recognizing the institution, and slaves as property."-(Dred Scott vs. Sandford, 19th Howard.) This, some gentleman tell us, is a prejudiced case; but, sir, it is the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States, and ycu may as well undertake to shake the foundation of a mountain as to attempt to shake it, because the substratum upon which it acts stands like the base of a mountain. You may pick from it the grass and shrubs that cover it; you may remove piles of rubbish and dirt from it; but, sir, the great base remains still. So with this decision; and it will stand firm as the rock, for it is founded upon a substratum that cannot be undermined. I quote from the opinion of Justice Taney, 19 Howard Rep., 451, in the case of Dred Scott vs. Sandford:' "Now, as we have already said in an earlier part of this opinion upon a different point, the right of property in a slave is distinctly and expressly affirmed by the constitution. The right to traffic in it, like an ordinary article of merchandise and property, was guaranteed to the citizens of the United States in every State that might desire it for twenty years. And the government, in express terms, is pledged to protect it in all future time, if the slave escapes from his owner. This is done in plain words-too plain to -be misunderstood-and no word can be found that gives Congress a greater power over slave property, or which entitles property of that kind to less protection, than property of any other description," etc. Here is the substratum, and here is the structure built upon it —the right of property in slaves. I have said that if the owner of this prop e r t y could be compensated fairly-I do not say in full-but if I could see a fair compensation provided —if Congress would step forth and say that the loyal owner should be fairly compensated, there is no man n this Convention that would more gladly support the movement. If you could 152 AND AMENDMENT OF' THE CONSTITUTtON OFP LOUISItANA. bellion against the United States, the following, to-wit: Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana,, (except the parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James, Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the city of New Orleans,) &c., and which excepted parts are, for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued. Here, gentlemen, we have the last proclamation of the president on this subject-the first and the last that has ever said that men should be deprived absolutely of slave property. Now I appeal to the Convention, and ask what has been the result of that proclamation. We are excepted from its effects on account of our loyalty to the Government. And why is it, I call upon you to-day to say, why is it that the very parishes excepted are the parishes in which the negroes are to-day free? and in the parts that are not excepted slavery in all its horrors exists as it did before the proclamation was issued. Why is this, I ask? Why is it that this Convention is disposed to-day to deprive loyal owners of their slaves in the excepted parishes, while the disloyal men in the parishes not excepted riot and grow rich upon the labor of their slaves? Why is this Convention disposed to make this discrimination against loyal men who are specially excepted by the President? Let us, in God's name, let us pause before we are guilty of placing the loyal men of Louisiana —men who have been loyal under the most trying circumstances —in a worse position than the rebels who are enriching themselves upon slave labor to-day. No, Mr. President, I am not prepared to believe it; not until I see an ordinance of emancipation drawn up and signed, will I believe that the subject of negro education will be further discussed in this Convention. period should be free at a certa in age. In Pennsylvania it was fixed at twenty-eight years. The legislators of old Pennsylvania saw and appreciated the difficulties and the injustice of tearing away from legitimate owners hundreds of millions of property, and did not deem it right or politic to adopt such a measure as I fear will be adopted by this Convention. They adopted a measure which I think could be adopted by this State with justice to the master and with honor and dignity to the State. I quote from Stroiid's Pennsylvania Digest, page 789, act of March 1, 1780, section 3, where it says: All persons, as well negroes and mulattoes as others, who shall be born within this State, shall not be deemed and considered as servants for life or slaves; and all servitudes for life or slavery of children in consequence of the slavery of their mothers, in the case of all children born within this State, from and after the passage of this act as aforesaid, shall be, and hereby is, utterly taken away and forever abolished. SEC. 4. Provided, always, that every negro and mulatto child born within this State after the passage of this act as aforesaid (who would, in case this act had not been made, have been boln a servant for years or life, or a slave,) shall be deemed to be, and shall be by virtue of this act, the servant of such person, or his or her assigns, who would in such case have been entitled to the service of such child until such child shall attain unto the affge of twenty-eight years, in th e ma nn er and condition whereo n servan t s bo und by indenture are holden, &c. Here, Mfr. Presiden t, i s an act worthy an e nlightened, intelligent people, which, h if we should adopt, would enable the people to adapt themselves to the circumstances which the change would bring about, and the slaves to adapt themselves to their change of condition. The children, before arriving at the age of twenty-eight, could be of great service to their owners, and the old slaves that are full of vice would pass off with the progress of time, as in the case of the Israelites, who wandered in the wilderness, living upon bugs, birds, and the gum from trees, half starved, half naked and eaten up with lice for forty years. Such an act would do justice to the slaveowner, and in the meantime the slave This is a kind of legislation that is unprecedented. Slave property has never been torn away from the owners in the Northern States, where it once existed, but does not exist now. We might do well to take a lesson on this subject from old Pennsylvania, where it was abolished, as in the other States where it once existed, by providing that all slaves born after a certain 20 159 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Sir, the condition of the slave is only pitiable when he has a cruel master. I grant that there are cruel masters, and that slaves sometimes suffer at their hands. But, sir, some wives are choked or beat to death by cruel husbands; but would you forego the pleasures of the domestic relation because some wives are choked or beat to death by cruel husbands? I do not think that the proportion of cruel masters is greater th a n that o f crue l hus bands. Frequent our docks for one month, and you will see evidences of cruelty in the mashed up faces of maltreated wives whose husbands are wretches unworthy the name. There are bad men in all conditions and classes of society. Government has its share of them, preying and fattening upon it like sharks in the wake of a ship. The sacred desk has its hypocrites, donning the sacred robes for greed or {ain; and is it strange that under a system of slavery there should be bad masters? Mr. President, I have already detained the Convention too long, and with one or two more remarks I shall have done. What are we to do, Mr. President, with the 312,000 negroes that are to be turned {loose upon us? To keep a standing army to keep them down would involve an enormous expense that would make us hewers of proximating to the majority report. The report, sir, to which we are discussing a substitute, requires us to provide for the education of 75,000 negro children. What is to be the expense of this? You must mark it well up in the millions. Suppose we adopt this report. Suppose we agree to educate these negro children, and their number will be increased to 100,000. Suppose we free the negroes and attempt to educate 100,000 of them. Where are the several millions necessary for education to come from? Great God! gentlemen, pause before you take this step, and think what you are doing. Pause before you tear from the widow, the orphan and the loyal men their slave property, and then take their money to phy for its education. The gentleman tells us that three hundred of that poor, down-trodden and oppressed race have been massacred at Fort Pillow; and from the accounts that reach us, I believe that more than four hundred of our race have been slain on Red River. The -widows and orphans that have been brought to grief by the desolating effects of this war are not to be counted by hundreds of thousands, but by millions; and why is it that gentlemen's sympathies are with the negroes instead of with these? Will they tell us why their sympathies are enlisted for the well-fed, contented and happy negro, instead of for the unfortunate of their own race? But, sir, I am willing for the sympathies of these gentlemen to flow out in such direction as their own tastes may suggest; but for my part, if there is a tear to fall from my eye, it must be for the down-trodden and the oppressed, the widows and orphans of my own race and color. Did they ever know a negro to be oblige d to go to market without money. I hardly think such a case ever occurred. They are a class that always have money to go to market. Wood an d d rawers of water. Are you going to make them all fiee? Then they -ill all be found squatting down on the margins of our lakes and bayous, hunting and fishing for a mere subsistence. chity, sir, if you want to see the free negro, look at him in the Northern States where he is free; you will find that there his condition is worse, far worse, than it is in the slave States where he is taken care of. Go anywhere where they are free and you will find the same state of facts. Travel through Mexico, where they stand on a political equality with, their lighter skinned neighbors, and you will find them a worthless, shiftless. lazy, degraded set. God has set his mark upon them, and it is not within the bounds of human power to remove it. But, sir, if you make them free, they will come in competition with white labor. You 1 1 154 AND AMENDMENT OF'HE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. cannot make laws to restrain them, because the negro stands in New York, where there laws must be general. If you make any is only one to several hundred whites. discrimination you only remove one system There they are driven into houses, and the of slavery by introducing another. What houses assaulted and perhaps burned, to do the gentlemen propose to do with them prevent them from competing with white when they make them free? The two races laborers. Yet here they will pour in like cannot live and flourish together in a state the locusts of Egypt, and the white men of freedom; and, gentlemen, mark well my will be driven out-not by the superior words, they will dispose of us or we shall force of the negroes, but because they candispose of them. They cannot, gentlemen, not come here and put themselves in combe permitted to come into competition with petition with the negro. White men will the white race. never work for as low wages as the negro. The American race, Mr. President, is sut- Look at the admirable system of Gen. perior to all others, because of its admix- Banks —it was an admirable system under tlre with the blood of every nation under the circumstances. When they were flockheaven. Homely as is the proverb "blood ing here, deluging the city, he ordered them will tell' it is no less true of the human into the country, fixing the wages of firstrace than of animals. And in the Ameri- class hands at eight dollars per month, seccan race we see the effects of it. We have ond at six dollars and the third class at four here the admixture of the Celt with the dollars a month. Where is the white man Teuton, the sturdy Saxon with the more that could support himself and his children sprightly southern races of Europe. In on such wages? Where is the white man short an endless, untraceable admixture, that would be willing to go and dig and which can only be seen in its results. Its have his wages so cut down? And yet if I results are apparent and noticeable. When- wanted to hire to make money, and I supever we have come in contact with the ar- pose that in that respect I am much like mies of any other nation, those armies have other men, I should hire the black man always had to take the heel. much quicker than the white. In the first war with England h er armies Instead of the glory and dignity of the overran our country, but were eventually State that you expect will necessarily and driven back. Again, in the war of 1812. inevitably follow the system you propose, she laid waste our capital, but was again you would find that the white men would driven out. This present war is not a war go away, and sir, the bone and sinew of of races. Here, brother is fighting against the country would be driven out, and biut brother. It is the American race that is very few would remain upon the soil to defighting on both sides. It is not Americans fend it. fighting another great power. And when The negroes, when they are in slavery, intellect is substituted for brute force then have homes where they are cared for and will this great struggle pass from over this I rotected; make them free, and they will great and mighty land. Sir, there is no use be driven out upon the world, a most in talking of the respective valor and miserable, outcast, homeless set-the most courage.of the parties; they will fight on wretched people on the face of the earth. like the Kilkenny cats until there is nothing At home in slavery they are-with the exleft of either-until -both are pretty mnlch ception of those under cruel masters, and used uip. But I say again, sir, that the race God knows I detest a cruel master from the cannot come in contact with the negro. bottom of my heart-a happy, contented You will have not only to contend with the people. They pour by their labor the pro-. three hundred thousand already in the ducts of the earth into the lap of com.. State, but three millions more that will merce. The North receives the cotton and pour in from every part of the South. You the West the sugar, the products of their tell ie that the white race is coming, too. hands, and they receive a rich return for Well, suppose it is. Tell me what chance their labor under,a well organized system 155 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION I admire the honesty of the gentleman who has just taken his seat, but I think his view is totally unfitted for this people, and incon sistent with the iron-clad oath taken on the second day of the Convention, or previously. [Applause.] I am not surprised that the gentleman spoke so glibly on that occasion of his willingness to take oaths. I must confess that what I have heard to-day and yesterday satisfies me that my friend has either a very poor idea of the sacredness of an oath, or else for the last two or three years he has been living in some obscure region where the mighty progress of revo lution that is sweeping before it the old landmarks failed to make an impression on his mind with regard to coming here to register the orders of Gen. Banks. I think the allusion is unkind and uncalled for. As to Gen. Banks threatening this Convention if they did not do their work quickly and promptly, I deny it in toto. I think the wide range this debate was taking, and the fact that we sat quietly to hear the gentleman through for nearly two days, shows a want of dsposition to come up to the work of our high calling. We do not come into this Convention with that solemn feeling and stern resolve that, with my consciousness of the magnitude of our duties, I would like to see. I may be mistaken, and I hope I am, but I call upon this Convention to make a solemn resolve —to vow before God and in their own consciences that they will endeavor to find out what is their duty, and do nothing else. I say if this Convention fails to do o its duty, and th a t is to make a free State constitution for Louisiana, and provide for the education of those suddenly thrown on the world, we fail to do what we are called upon and what we swore before Almighty God we would do when we came into this Convention. We are not here to legislate exclusively for Louisiana, but for all the rebel States. The Federal government has, with a feeling such as has never been shown to a rebellious people before, enabled us to assemble here to represent the people-I will not say in. their sovereign capacity, it was ridiculous before the rebellion and is now too late for States to talk about sovereignty — of slave labor. Thi s is as it should be, and except in cases of cruelty, I say th at of all syst ems of labor, slavery is the most per fect, h uma ne and satisfactory ta hat has ever been devised; and a slave under a good master is the most happy -being in the world. Now, if we disturb this system, MAr. P resi dent, we drive out the wh ite lab orer, for it is impossible for h im t o compete with the fre e negro. Look at t he f ree negro in hi s native jungles, and, sir, what do you find? a mere bug-eater; a fruit-eater; a mere naked, d estitute wretch, as incapable of social enjoyment as a brute. If we disturb this system we drive out the white laborer, for he can never be brought into competition with this class of laborers. He will never stand it. A few may demand him f or some time, but the result will be th e wreal othe gradual removal of the few enter p rising men we have here to the North. There is an incompatibility between systems of white and free negro labor that will cease only when driven out. They will never exist together except in some such State as Mexico. The report of the committee assumes that the Convention has forever freed the negroes of this State. That, I hope, this Convention will never do. I hope, on the contrary, that it will adopt such a system as that adopted by Pennsylvania. Gentlemen, I thank you kindly for the great indulgence you have shown me. And if. in what I have said, I have given offence to any man, I have only to say that if it was the last moment of my life, before God I would say that from the bottom of my heart I believe it, and intended no unkindness to any gentleman. Again I thank you, gentlemen, for your kindness, courtesy and attention. Mr. THORPE —I do not rise to answer the logical arguments of the gentleman from the Fifth District, but he has taken occasion to allude to some remarks in a manner that justifies some explanation. I have never spoken on this subject, and do not intend to do it now. I referred yesterday to the fact that we were called together for a cer taim purpose, and should e nd eavo r to perform our duties as expeditiously as possible. 156 AND AMENDMENT OF THlE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. every man thus regenerated some human hope and a position where it can brought into exercise. But the gentleman has done more than that. He has absolutely, but perhaps unconsciously, stated that the arri val of the flag here and the restoration of a portion of this State to the Union, under i command of Gen. Bauks, has placed us in a worse condition than we had occupied under the flag of Jeff. Davis, in the midst of the rebellious government; for here we are deprived of the sources of the involuntary service of the negroes, but in the Confederacy all such privileges are still enjoyed. I will not spend one moment defending this institution. I do not think it is necessary, and do not believe we are called here for that purpose. This discussion has taken such a wide range that it is not within the province of this Convention. Ihold we have no right to discuss whether emancipation is right or wrong. We agreed, when we came here, to accept the proclamation of the president, and I did not dream that any person would say a word in favor of the institution, whatever their early predilection might have been. It is no place, and we should not again listen to such things. I am in favor of carrying out fully the bond I made with my constituents when I came here; and having done that work in the shortest possible time, of putting wings ,to the instrument and sending it forth to the world. If you make that constitution according to the expectations of the peopleif you disappoint the slanderers of our motives-if you do your work justly and nobly, and decide who should have been our friends, and yet who raise the arm to strike us down, you will place them in the dust and beneath contempt, and record your names on an instrument second only to the Declaration of Independence; that will go forth to the world for all time as an example of men who love their race to follow. Mr. CAZABAT-I have listened with some surprise to the remarks made upon the report of the Committee on Education. I must confess, Mr. President, that the remarks of the gentleman from the Fifth, [Mr. Abell,] if not inappropriate, were at least I refetrred to the massacre of some 400 or 500 of our soldier s i n cold blood at Fort Pillow, and I am sorry to hear that the same dreadful tragedy has been repeated on Red River. Look at the items accumulating from all parts of the country that is desolated, and you will find terrible instances of cruelty already enacted, or being enacted, and the perpetrators, like young tigers, are beginning to taste human blood. God only knows where it Will end, in a few months, unless stopped. If we make a constitution equal to the times and the demand made upon us, we set an example to the rebellious States that will have great effect in inducing them to follow, and do more to solve the question of this great revolution than can be performed by our noble armies in the field. The gentleman said so much about slavery, and used the word so often, that I was on the point of calling the sergeant-at-arms to turn on the gas-the atmosphere seemed black with the horrid word, and with his unhappy and unholy argument. He asks one practical question at least. What are you going to do with the 300,000 slaves to be turned loose? One of the most extraordinary fallacies of the arguments brought up is, that the moment they are made free they cease to be of any value. If you should free those men and carry them out of the country, you would strike Louisiana down, because you would deprive her of her industrial labor, and send away more than one-half of her capital and power to produce wealth. I ask the gentleman who is such an admirer of this institution, whether 300 slaves on plantations toiling under the lash, will produce more for the avaricious man than the same number working on the same plantation at reasonable wages? You do not destroy all labor of such property, but merely change a certain conventional relation, and give to 157 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION uncalled for upon the discussion of the subject presented to the Convention for it is not the question of emancipation of slavery which is now before us, but simply whether education should be granted by the people of Louisiana to that unfortunate, despised race which we intend to make free, or rather, which is free already, and has been so ever since the first day we attempted to destroy the most perfect and liberal government devised by the wit of man. Sir, the work we are called upon to perform is to complete what the spirit of rebellion has produced. I have not the least doubt in my mind, Mr. President, that the gentleman is sincere, conscientious and honest in the expression of his feelings and views on this subject. I admire his boldness as I do his honesty; but I do not rise here to discuss the merits or demerits of the institution of slavery, as to whether it is right or wrong, a good or an evil, a curse or a blessing, a divine or human institution. Suffice it to say that it is a question of the past, dead and gone forever, beyond the power of human redemption or resurrection. The finger of God is upon it-the wise decree of Providence has banished it forever firom the American continent; not only in Louisiana, but all through the sunny South, not only for the good of the African, but for the true benefit of the poor white man. The gentleman has, with great ability, perhaps, eulogized an institution which exists no longer de jure or de facto-an institution which has caused more bloodshed, more misery, more tears, than any other question which ever agitated the human mind. Look at it, gentlemen of the Convention, and Mr. President-look at the precious blood that has been shed for the last three years; look at the misery, yes, the distressing misery of thousands of helpless orphans and unprotected widows. You contend that the institution exists de facto; I deny it. You stand upon false premises, and your conclusions are wrong. If slavery really does exist, as you pretend, for God's sake go to the various battle-fields along the Mississippi valley —go under the b reastworks of Port Hudson-go to Fort Pillow, where the villified African soldier has been murdered and massacred in cold blood t o protect and defend t he flag of human freedom. Go to those places and bring your slaves back if you can, or if you dare. But will you refus e this race tha t education which is necessary to freemen, to enable them to distinguish between right and wrong, in order that they may be a blessing instead of a curse to the white race, and become useful members of society in their humble sphere? Sir, I am in favor of the article proposed by the committee in regard to public education. I do not see how any man within the sound of my voice, whether in favor of slavery or not, if he is a true man, if he is true to his conscience, can consider himself otherwise than bound to maintain this people, until, at least, we can devise better means of disposition by legislative provisions. The hue and cry of negro equality, the declaration of future danger, manifests a spirit of cowardice. Are you afraid that the despised African shall become your equal or superior? No conflict, no result of the kind is to be apprehended; the negro will keep his proper place, and will find his level, provided you give him education, and make him a useful and responsible being, which is neither more nor less than his due. Mr. President, I feel stwong in my views, because among the gentlemen who signed the report is the name of a young friend of mine, T. M. Wells, son of our worthy Lieuttenant Governor, who was born and raised in Louisiana, in the midst of slavery. and who has as much at stake, perhaps, as any man inside or outside of this Convewtion. I say, God bless him! Although a slaveholder, identified with slavery, hv,is wiling to give to the African that which -some of us, I am sorry to say, would refuse him. Mr. CUrLER-Mr. President and gentle-> men, I rise to give my views upon the important question. It has been said, Mr. President, that in a multitude of counsel there is wisdom, and I sincerely hope that the saying strictly applies to the members of this Convention. The opening remarks of yesterday, by the 158 11 AND AMEDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 159 the body as a whole; which was the beginning at the foot of the ladder or, rather the tail end of the fish, rather than the head, and thus commencing with the wrong end of th e question. Th e order of emancipation,s which has been discussed both yesterday and to-day, should have been passed ere this. [Applause.] Two-thirds of that discussion was foreign to the question presented by the resolution before the House, but the ball has been put in motion, the wheel is rolling upon its plane, and it is proper now, after what has passed, that we should proceed with this discussion, because with it ends all trouble in regard to emancipation and the education of the free colored children of the State. I think, Mr. President, that two-thirds of the argument of my learned and worthy friend, Mr. Abell, was upon a question not then debatable before this house. [Applause.] Mr. President. I told you on Saturday, it was my desire that all questions should come up in their regular order; I told you that the question in regard to public. education should come up after the settlement of that of emancipation; but you did not hear my motion on yesterday, nor did you hear me ask for the resolution I presented, which I had offered for the postponement. I am aware of Mr. Gruneberg's resolution, and it is a very proper, clear and concise one, which should have been adopted on the very day we met, instead of on to-day or yesterday. When we come to the serious and important question I have before spoken of, I have promised to then give you my views, freely, frankly, and 'only ask sufficient time. same learned gentleman who opened the ball of discussion to-day, induced me to believe that an impression prevailed that there was a portion of the members of this Convention not disposed to come up quickly and promptly to their work. I, for one, sir, entertain the opinion that there is not a man here who does not sincerely and honestly act from the pure motives within his own breast. We may differ in opinion, but the great State of Louisiana is pretty well repre sented. We have members from nearly every parish, and a large majority, at any rate, of delegates of the State are assembled in this Convention. The will and wish of the entire people can, it seems to me, be properly expressed by the sentiments of this Convention. It was suggested, in the heat of argument on yesterday, Mr. President, that the substitutte then and now under discussion might have a certain tendency disgraceful to the members of this Convention. My view is this: that we are here for the purpose of reasoning together on the revising and amending a constitution in which, in the wisdom of the sovereign people, needs amending and revising; and it strikes me that we should reason on that subject in a spirit of friendship, respect and truth. Argument does not consist in mere denunciation; high-sounding words, but is founded in reason. Now, if any gentleman desires to reason upon tht question, it is for the purpose of enlightening the general mind and this Convention, and if it is for any other purpose. it is not for an improper one. Mr. President, I am, perhaps, the m'ost feeble and unlearned of the members of this Convention. I have not come here to make speeches, but to represent my constituents and to do my duty to the best of my humble ability. My opinion is that this Convention has it in its power to accomplish more for the State of Louisiana and the general government than three or four, yea, a half dozen, well-fought battles, provided it acts with that deliberation, coolness and determination of purpose which should actuate every public, political and statesmanlike mind. I have seen but little amiss in our general conduct, and that existed in [Granted.] Mr. President, I am in favor of immediate emancipation. tapplause.] -Alr. President, I go farther-I am in favor of providing ways and means to educate the emancipated; [applause] —btit, mark you, I may differ with you in detail. These questions, presented by my learned friend (Mr.,,Abell) under the constitution and laws of I-lie United States. as well as of this State, are. in m opinion, foreign to the issue. My views go farther back, not because I am wise, but because I look upon things as they are now. The con D)EBATES IN THEl COVFENTION FOR TlE REVISION dition of our country makes the enforcement of our constitution and laws different from what it would be in a state of profound peace. I say that the gentleman does not argue correctly. I say, Mr. President, that the gentleman considers us as living in a state of profound peace, and all his arguments invoking the aid of the constitution of the United States, its laws, and the arguments of our great statesmen, proceed upon this assumption. Are there not such times that the liberties of a people demand quick, prompt and particular action, which is not anticipated by any constitution or laws? Why is this? Because constitutions are framed slowly; because laws are the result of constitutions and subsequent legislation. It is impossible in time of perfect peace, when constitutions and laws are made, to provide for all those circumstances which may arise during a state of war. I would ask these gentlemen if, in case their lives were imperilled, they would not make use of the laws of nature quickly, in such a manner as to repel all possible personal danger? The government of the United States is made up of individuals and individual States. The sovereign power of that government is the people, and the people have the right to say what is necessary at any and all tiies. Mr. President, how is it possible, even with the argument of our adversaries-those who honorably entertain these scrupulous notions of things so out of keeping with the progress of the age-with their personal knowledge and that common sense which every man of even ordinary understanding, possesses-how can they resist the impression that now the constitution and laws of times of peace can prevail to the same extent as in such times as these? How can their minds be so bewildered, so lost to the condition of things as to entertain such an opinion? Why, Mr. President, this war is the cause of the assembling of this Convention; of the emancipation of the negro; of the great changes and the apparent bendings of the constitution of the United States and the laws thereof. Who would have dreamed at this moment of any of these things, had not this great rebellion occurred o Are we to be told, then, tha t the powers vested in the president of the United States, by the letter and spirit of the constitution — or that the laws under the constitution are sufficient? Have we not seen the practical result thereof? They are sufficient for the purpose of suppressing a temporary insurrection, repelling invasion nor the enforcement of some laws; but, sir, has it not been acknowledged by the sovereign, loyal people of this country, that this is a rebellion beyond that position of things? Then, if I am correct, sir, we are in a state of civil war, which makes even the constitution and laws bend for the public good. Such has been the case because neither the constitution, laws of the United States, nor that of Louisiana, has any provision made for the meeting of thy Convention, the coming of Federal troops into Louisiana, nor for the President of the United States to do.nany acts he has done. When the nation is in danger are we to stop for legislation, or to act promptly, and forcibly for the best interests of the peo cussed, both on yesterday and to-day. If my propositions are true, why argue that the question of slavery is subservient to the constitution and laws of either the United States or the State of Louisiana? It is the result of military necessity coupled with national pride, and, I may add, humanity. These are the principles, and not those advocated, upon which I for one will vote for .the emancipation of slavery in Louisiana. I am not in favor of emancipating them because their condition is at this moment better off in Dixie; nor of keeping them in bondage because they are better off as slaves, but because of the fact that we have a great rebellion in our midst, and it is necessary, in the opinion of the Government and people,. to do so in order to put down this rebellion. That, sir, is to my mind the strongest reason, for I am not one of those abolitionists who desire the emancipation simply because it is a great good to humanity, nor am I here to discuss whether a state of slavery or a state of freedom is -most 160 ple? Mr. President, these are my views in rega-r(I to the foundation principle of the question discussed and attempted to be dis AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. posing- upon any Legislature the unqualified and imperative duty of educating any but. the superior race of man-the white race. We are scarcely now in a condition to educate those of our own color, letting alone those who have by the power of the white race been emancipated from their state of bondage. While we have the highest respect for that people, and a desire to promote their interest in every way, our pecuniary condition does not now allow us to do it; but. hereafter, by the help of the UInited States. Government, we nmay be able to do so. Let. me ask, first of all. what are our resources. for educating the white children? Taxes. were formerly levied upon real estate, slaves and some species of personal property. Now, Mr. President, there were not less than about three hundred thousand slaves, not less than one half of the entire taxable property belonging to the loyal people of Louisiana, which is totally taken from them by virtue of the passage of the emancipation ordinance. Then, if you have taken one-half of the property upon which taxes is levied, or from which you derive taxes, I would ask, in carrying out this principle, if you do not increase the number to be educated to at least double? Weigh these facts well. You also decrease the amount of revenue by the emancipation ot the slaves. Then it is a matter of easy calculation to show if the per cent was one, it would now be four or five; because the taxes are limited to the property remaining as such. Then the rates of taxation are increased fourfold, and now, sir, upon whom does it, operate? Does it operate upon the secessionist and disloyal man? No, because -his property is already in the possession of the officers of thel Government and under their control, and itf confiscated it is putrchased by loyal men. If this Convention attempts to impose absolutely a tax upon the loyal men-and it would be imposing it upon no other-by directing or-giving power to the Legislature to establish free public .schools to educate colored children, it will be imposing an obligation on the loyal people impossible for them to bear. It is all .they can do to get the necessaries of life anad educate the white race at present. I hope this state of things will not continue beneficial to the negro. Ileave that to some other time, as the question does not necessarily arise now; but I do say that the slaves in every State of this rebellions country sh ould b e se t at liberty, for the purpose of crushing out this odious rebellion. [Applause.] W hen they are libera ted, free men, then, in my opinion, will be time enough for us to consider the secondary questio n pr esen ted in t his report. I do not agree w it h th e gentleman that there are now slaves in Louisiana. No, sir, not one is there. But, sir, it is in such a state that it becomes necessary for the people of Louisiana, in convention assembled, to declare in the most solemn manner whether it shall any longer exist within our territorial jurisdiction. For one, I am of opinion that all the secessionists in our State, all the registered enemies added thereto, with all the loyal traitors and powe/rs of hell combined, cannot resurrect slavery among us. [Applause.], This is my opinion; but I am not a negro worshipper, notwithstanding. Let us now come to the grave consideration of the respective rights of our loyal people in regard to the education of the freedmen. The report of' my learned friend, the chairman of the committee, Mr. Hills, is, no doubt, the sincere conclusions of that body, and I shall speak upon it with perfect candor. without intending any disrespect. I find the following in that report: Art.-.The General Assembly shall establish free public schools throughout the State for all children, and shall provide for their support. It is my intention. Mr. President, to offer a substitute to this clause of but one word; that is to strike out "shtll;" and insert may." N-ow, I will give you my reasons, for in my opinion any man who states a proposition, and cannot give any reason for it. ought to abandon it. First of all. Mr. President, I am in favor of providing ways and means for the eduication of freedmen, but not in favor of doing so hastily. I am also in favor of giving life and -spirit to the organic law of Louisiana, and of abolishing all its odious provisitlns, bult not in favor of positively ira 21 I 161 162 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION long. I am in favor of educating all persons, of whatever nation, who are disposed to reside in the State. This state of things certainly cannot exist long, but it will exist for a time. Leave it, then, to the Legislature. Who will compose that body? Will it not be Louisianians? Then if you find by a change of circumstances and the prog,ress of time it is necessary to establish these schools, do so, otherwise not. But it is not proper for us, under these circumstances, to say the Legislature shall do so. When is the first Legislature to convene? We are to fix the time, and it may be in November, his order in relation to the education of the I freed people would extend beyond the time when the action of this Convention would go into operation. It is an element in the estimation of the wise major general of this department for crushing out of this State, at least, the rebellion he had come to coin create public schools for that class of persons who are not now able to earn their own living. Let them earn their own support as far as may be, and live with us as freemen, but let them earn it by the sweat of the brow; do not educate them at the expense of the loyal citizens until then. I say, we ought not to educate these classes alone, for it is as much the pride of the general government as it is of Louisiana, to free the slaves. I speak not of the North, South, East or West, but of a great united nation of enlightened people, whose leader and father was the immortal Washington. I want to know how it is that Louisianians are to be burdened with the entire tax and the entire education and promotion of the welfare of that people which it is the nation's pride to emancipate? Make it general, and do not impose it alone on the Louisianians. Would not my friend from the North feel proud in contributing to the general welfare of that people who, having possessed slaves, now give them ulp for the good of the common country? I believe too much in the sincerity and honesty of the North, to think that they would fail to act in this matter for the good of our common c )untry. If this matter is justly represented to Congress, will they say that Louisiana, or any of the seceding rebel States, shall I I I i I i be compelled to bear alone the burden of emancipation and the education of the emancipated No, never. When you, in this Convention, frame ordinances to that effect, and ask of the general government, of which we claim to be a member, to -extend its aid and support, they will frankly and freely contribute to the education of this people. Then, am I not right in saying that the question of education should not be made now, but continued for a short time - postponed I until the Legislature meets? I was astonished to hear -,t gentleman argue to this i body that Gen. Banks ever intended that quer, and not to infringe on the rights of the sovereign people. Consequently, the commanding general of this department, in obedience to orders from the president andcabinet of the United States, issued his proclamation, holding out the olive branch-to the loyal people of Louisiana, in order that the power inight again be vested in them, through this Convention, to form a State government in accordance with the spirit of progress and advancement of the age. Why, the gentleman himself is sent here by the sovereign people. That is the best argument against the position he. assumes that this Convention is controlled by military power. It is the m'ilitary power that makes existing constitutions bend to necessity. But we are not called here to make a military constitution. This Convention is called upon to make a constitution in accordance with the spirit of the age, untrammeled by Gen. Banks. When he issued his proclamation, he withdrew all military interference. He said, go tip ajid make, a constitution that will be acceptable to the people. Where is the military influence or the military interference with this Convention? There is none whatever. We are free as the air we'breathe; we fear no interference. We do as we please, and, ae, in accordance with our own cQxlviotit)iDs, AND AMNDMENT OF TI CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I am somewhat hoarse, and would ask to be excused from any flirther remarks at present. A motion to adjourn was made and carried. R esolved, That tinls Convenion, setung WEDN.,ESDAY, MLay 4, 1864. aside unfinished business and the order of [ T h e Convention was called to order at the day, do now proceed to take up the re port of the Committee on Emancipation, 12 v., and the proceedings were opened and do proceed to consider the same until with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Andrews. The it be finally disposed of. roll was called, and the following gentle- [The rules were suspended. men answered to their names: The yeas and nays were called on the Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bar- adoption of the report, with the following rett, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, result:] Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook T. YEAS-Messrs. Austin, Bell, Benie, Bon Cook J. K., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane, zano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cook Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, J. K., Cook T., Collin, Davies, Duane, Duke, Flood, Fosdick, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Hart, Healy, Heard, Fosdik, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman Fosdick, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Henderson, Hills,- Hire, Howe,, Knobloch, Henderson, Hills, HiMre Howe, Knobloch, Gorlinski, Hart, Healy, Henderson, Hills, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mills- Hire, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mills paugh, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Newell paugh. Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Pin Normand, Ong. Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Normand, Ong, Orr, Payne., Pinta tado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., SchroePoynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Poynot, Purl., Pursell S., Schroe der, Schnurr, Shaw; Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Staufer Terry Thorpe Thomas Wilson — Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, 54. Thorpe, Waters, Wells, Wilson-72. Thorpe. Fis, Flas, Fols,Aon-aatan NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Bailey, Bar Messrs. Fish, Flagg, Foley, Montamat and rett, Bofill, Campbell, Crozat, Decker, DuMurphy E. having taken their seats, the fresne, Dupaty, Gruneberg, Heard, Knobpresident declared a quorum present. loch, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, The minutes of yesterday were then read Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Stumpf, Temand adopted.] wrthnraSeymour, Sullivan, Waters, Wells-26. and adopt ed.] [The resolution was adopted.] Mr. STAUFFER-Mr. President, I have a [The rsoltinwas adopted.] ,fr. ABETL.-I move, Mfr. President, that resolution to offer, as follows: r. A -I move, Mr. President, that '.. j ~~~it be made the order of the day for Monday Resolved, That the following be printed it be made the order of the day for Monday and added as articles amending the report next. I understand that it is the order of of the Committee on General Provisions: the day for that day; but this Convention, Art.-. No person who now holds, or in its usual desultory mode of doing busimay hereafter hold any office, civil or mili-hink it would be tary, under the so-called Confederate States, untair and unjust to the opposition, to those or under any authority adverse to the gov- unair and unjust to the opposition, to those ernment of the United States, shall be who are in favor of the minority report, to eligible to any office of honor, trust or profit press the question upon us now. I would in this State. haveliked to have had some preparation I Art.-. No debt created by or under the haved some preparation. I so-called Confederate States, or under the would have been glad to have had an opsanction of any usurping power, shall be portunity to consult some authorities, in recognized and paid. order the more successfully to defend the PRESIDEn-.rThe resolution must lie over minority report, and I trust the Convention one day, imder the rules. will not insist on this mode of taking us by Mr. SEAw-The Committee on Ordinance surprise. reports progress. Mfr. HEISDERSON-Mr. President, I move to Mr. Wiruso3 —Mr. President, the Committee lay that motion on the table. on Assault of Members will be ready to re- [The motion was carried.] port to-morrow. Mr. HILLS — Mr. President, I move to Mr. SULLVAN-I call up my resolution ofI amend that resolution by adding the word, yesterday, exempting members of the Con- "and that no other report shall be taken vention from serving as jurors during the up by the Convention until that has been session, and move its adoption. disposed of."'' lea DEBATES 14N'f4l CONVENTION FO!HE REVISION fectly satisfied that this question was to le over. I wish every member of the Con vention to understand that I expected that this Convention would let this report lie over until every other report had been taken up and passed to its third reading in pursuance of a resolution adopted on Mon day, and if there was any consistency in the action of this Convention, I had every right to expect that it would lie over until that time. This Convention decided that all the reports of standing committees would be taken up and passed to a third reading before this question was again raised, and now, contrary to expectation, they have taken it up. The gentlemen seeing clearly that they were flanked-the vote for the proposition of yesterday could never have been swallowed by this Convention —they tack-I am not very familiar with military terms. I have been a civilian all my life. They found that they would be utterly routed by the question under discussion yesterday, and they press up the question of emancipation. I feel very thankful for the great liberality of the Convention in voting against layi ng the minority report on the table, because I know there are many gentlemen here who have voted against it upon the express ground that justice and fairness required that an opportunity should be left open that all who might wish could express themii,selves upon it. Mr. BONzANO-Mr. President, as the gentlemr Ean states tha t he is unprepared, I move to adjourn the discussion of this question until next Monday. Mr. THORPE-The question comes up regularly to-day, in its order. PRESIDE.NT-The gentlemen will proceed, the motion is not properly seconded. Mr. GASTINEL AND Mr. MfO.TAMAT-1I seconded the motion. PRESDE.NT-It requires two-thirds. Mr. GASTI.NEL-Do I understand that it requires two-thirds of the members to second a motion to postpone debate? PRESIVz.,NT-According to your own rules it requires two-thirds to suspend the rules, and this motion cannot be aeted upon unless the rules are first suspended. M~r. STOCKER-I movse to snlspend the rules ry. Mr. Hrm-I second the motion. [The motion was lost.] Mr. HENDERSO.n- I voted against l ay ing the report oth ehe table fo r th te ort re ason that I desire that this ConverSion should, on all o ccasions on questions relating to the con stitution, give every gentleman an oppor tunity to be heard; and for the purpose of opening discussion u pon it, I voted agai nst laying it u pon the table. Now, in order to a free discussion upon it, a motion must be made either for its adoption or rejection. I th erefo re m ove that the minority r epor t be rejected. Mr. CAZABAT-IMr. President,. permit me to say one word. PRESIDENmT —Afte r the question is put. [The chair put the question.] Mr. CA7ABAT —-Mr. President, as a matter of propriety, courtesy and politeness, I voted again s t laying t he repor t on t he table, although I diffedr en tirely fiom the minority report from begin ning t o end, from the first to the last, bu t still I desire to give a chance to the gentleman who presented it to explain himself freely. Let him advocate his own cause, and if he can succeed i n tconvincing th is Convent ion th at he is right, I, for uone, if convinc ed, have no hesitation in saying that I will go with him. With this explanation, and for these reasons. I voted No. Mr. ABELT, —Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I must confess that the action of the Convention upon the present occasion has put me to a very unexpected task. I have rested since Monday last per 164 Mr. MONTANIAT-1 move o lay that motion on the table. [The motion ivas lost.] Mr. GRu'.%7EBERG -- Nf r. President, is that open to debate, [The question was put and the amendment adopted. A motion was made to take tip the minority report first. and it was carried without objection. Mr. Abell read the minority report. See page 97.] Mr. FoLEY-1 move to lay the minority report on the table. It is not a report at all, but an argument in favor of slave A14D a t O T~ 1001St rTl~f4 O:P tOtTIIMA. 1Bt with the honor, the integrity and safety of the State, the rights of the master, and the future welfare, safety and happiness of the slave, and their final removal from the State. He could not view as just to the master, honorable to the State, or advantageous to the slave, any proposition which has for its object the immediate emancipation of the slave without the consent of the master, or a fair compensation for his property. The master having acquired a vested right in his property, by virtue of the customs of the country, guaranteed by the constitutions of this and the United States, the various acts of the Legislature of the several States and the Congress of the United States, con firmed by numerous decisions of the highest courts in the land. and assented to and acted upon by the wisest statesmen, perhaps, of the world, your committee does not believe that this Convention could divest the master of his property without doing a flagrant injustice. Were he to consider the interest of the slave, without reference to the right of the master, or advantage or detriment to the State, it would not be their interest to be immediately emancipated. Their tendency to idleness, their general ignorance and want of skill to provide for themselves,would leave them the prey of their vices and dissipation, and of disease and deatn; and any law that would force them to a different system of labor than is required of the white race, would be a violation of their rights as free men, and only a change from the present system of servitude or slavery to. that of another. Tne money-making speculator would be substituted for the kind and interested owner. The object of the sharper would be to make money; the kind master's interest to preservedand improve his property. But, above all considerations, your committee believe that the State has the deepest interest in preserving its safety and forwarding the interests of the' white, race. With the lights now befire the Convention, emanating from our sister States, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and the Western States generally, with free white labor this State would rise in population, wealth and grandeur;but in competition with 312,000 negroes with a natural increase unparalleled in the history of any people, surrounded by millions who would make Louisiana their asylum, the Convention cannot be blind to the fact that a system of peonage or slavery would be established, all inducement for white labor over-ridden. and the safety of the State menaced. I say, Mr. President,: that the conclusions in order t o take actio on the motions to postpone the debate. f [The ayes and nays were called with the f o llowin g result: YEws-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch" Bai ley, Barret t, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Buckley, Campbell, C ook T., Crozat, Decker, Du fresne, Duke, Edwards, Fosdick, Gastinel, Healy, He ard, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Murphy E., Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Poynot, Schroeder, Seymour, Spellicy, Smith, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Waters, Wenck -41. NAYs —Messrs. Ariail, Beauvais, Bennie, Bromley, Brott,. Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cutler, Davies, Duane, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gaidry, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hires, Howes, Kavangh, ta Knobloch, Kugler, .Maaas, Mann, Mayer, Morris, Newell, Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S.. Schnurr, Shaw, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe, Wells, Wilson-44. The motion to suspend was lost.] PRESIDENT-The gentleman will proceed with his argument. Mr. ABELL,Mr. President, the Convention has already extended to me so many favors that I must confess I have no right in the world to complain of its action, but it would have afforded me a great deal of pleasure to have had a little more time to prepare; but now I have merely to say that first or last, prepared or unprepared, when it comes to tearing away from tlh people of Louisiana ten or twelve hundred millions of property without making any adequate compensation therefor. I will fight the quies-. tion in every aspect in which it may come up before this Convention. I repeat, that for one, that never while this hand is attached to this body, will it sign an ordinance to tear from the citizens of the State their property, as men expect to do by the action of this Convention. Before I proceed I will notice the conclusions to which I have arrived. [Read his minority report.] To the president and members of the Contvea tionfor the Revision and Amendment ofthfe Conmstitutioi? of Louisiana: The undersigned having failed to arrive at the same conclusion with the majority of your committee, begs leave to submit the following minority report: Your committee would gladly acquiesce in any proposition -for the emancipation of slaves in this State, that would be consistent. I have arrived at are not based on a ny predilections in my own mind in favor of sl ave I I I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION NOR T THREUNION ry, for I have often repeated on this floor that I never saw a day or a moment - in my life when I was in favor of slavery as. an abstract principle. But, sir, wiser men than we are have attempted to grapple with this same subject; but the wisest men have shrunk back when they met the monstrous proposition that is before you to-day to tear from the people millions of property, though it were slaves. What does the Con vention propose to do with the majority report? That report proposes at one single swoop to dispossess owners of their property, not one nor ten, but to sweep from thousands of upright and honest people all they pos sess on this earth. I desire each member of this Convention to ask himself the ques tion, is this right, is it fair, is it honest? Is it acting upon the great principle that requires you to do to others as you would that they should do to you? I ask you to day if you had any species of property, let it be one negro or twenty, which you had earned fairly and honestly under the guarantees of the constitution, would you look upon it-as right for this Convention to sweep it away from you? 1 do not think you w ould. If you w ould get up here and swear it, I would not believe it. Then act upon the great principle of doing as you would be don e by. Yo u c an do i t and justify yourselves before your constituents w hen you go home. I ask you, when you retire at night to sleep, it' you can say you have been just before God.. when you have swept from the widow and orphan their property without compensating them? That is the question you have to meet. This is what I propose to suspend until there are means to do it. I talk to you as men imbued with the highest principle of lionor. Without compensation we are called upon fo strike down the rights of these people. Does this minority report propose to do anything of the kind? Oh! no! It appears, according to the preaching of the gospel, when God either had to be a liar, or else there had to be a mediator, Christ stepped in and reconciled the whole matter. If you take up this minority report, you cancel the freedom of the negro consistently with the great fimda mental principles of right a nd reason. It is done in this wa y, and I believe when you come to reflect- upon it, a large majority will say it must be adopt ed, By s uch action justice can be done, and the negro freed. Can this great nation o f m ore than thirty m illions of people pay for these negroes? We are all brethren, and a small but general contribution will enable justice to be done, and when you go home to your constituents you can look them in the face and hear them say, " well done, good and faithful servant." If you adopt the other report, and free these peo.ple, you will have to look them in the face. and their' posterity, because there is no right or justice in it. I have spoken on this subject on two days. and now I want to do a little talking. I am in earnest, and you will be in earnest some day or other. Be just, and then you can face all mankind fearlessly; but tear from these people hundreds of millions of property, which they have honestly acquired, and how will you meet them'? The best way will -be to go north or west, or go somewhere else,,for you cannot, as an upright man, meet them. You cannot stand and say to them: "I have torn fiom you your property and left you and your posterity beggars. You have just this question to meet. It is not merely a stroke of the pen, that is easily done. YoI inu mu,st mieet these questions upon this floor. You miay be able to sign your name to a document which recites that "we hereby transfer from you(the people) and your heirs, a hundred and fifty millions"; that would be a nice little day's work, easily done —but that is not all; for this nmatter must go before the world. Gentlemen, the minority report before you does not contemplate any such thing; but is plain and simple, though perhaps not so feeling as the other. It will meet the great ends ofjustice, and satisfy the people of Louisiana. You cannot, you have too much sense in your heads, too much manliness, I hope, to sweep away property, as has been proposed. Adopt, then, my report, and give all an, opportunity in help 166 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. ing in the great work. I am perfectly will- tor will not do it at all, and these will grow ing that all here should sign the majority rioh, while the others, turned loose, will be report, but I did not come here to represent the most miserable of wretches! The large myself-but on the contrary, the people of majority will want bone and muscle; thereLouisiana, their interests and wishes. Am fore they will be driven like dogs from I told that thatreport embodies these? How their kennel, kicked and cursed hither and do we learn that? Ten thousand voters thither until they bring up in houses of are represented here, but of these, six prostitution or in prison. Yet we think we thousand are inhabitants of New Orleans, are doing great things in freeing them. No, where there are but few negroes; yet we sir, you are not freeing them, but only are here for the purpose of divesting the other changing the mode of servitude, and they part of their wealth in this property, of their will ever be the most dependent creatures substance. Are you willing and ready to on earth. do this? If you are, I cannot help you. All How are they in the North and West, as that I can do is to lay before you the pro- compared with those who have an idea of position to let Congress and the Legislature depending upon their own exertions? They of the State devise ways by which this po- are eventually driven into dens of infamy. pulation may be liberated, so that justice + Now whenthe white race comes into conmay be done without oppresing anybody. If tact with them here, will it be more willing you do not heed this, you commit a most to bow down to the great negro and grievous oppression against one part of this'l coalesce with him? No, sir! The same State without giving the other an opportu- war must go on here, and I say that if left nity to aid. If this is a good and holy work, at liberty, they will, led by faction, by ought not everybody to aid it? If it is a desperate men, imbue their hands in the work of infamy and wrong, or illegitimate, blood of the whlite race. are you to be instrumental in carrying it Trained as they now are to arms, that out, and thus expose yourselves to the faction will rise. You must have a gospel scorn of the world? minister at the corner of every street and Reason upon it, and see what is the cha- on ever plantation, and then you cannot racter of this undertaking to liberate three keep them straight. hundred and twenty thousand negroes! Mr. TERRY —Like the last gentleman, I What are you going to do with them? There dit not come here prepared to debate this will only be a change from one species of report, but when I listen to such language master to another, and they will not only on this floor, knowing that the majority of be oppressed-not only for the sake of these members were elected under the banmoney making-but when their capacity is ner of a Free State, pledged to immediate and exhausted, then good bye to them-no instantaneous emancipation, what am I to mistake about that! think when I hear such arguments in such a These very negroes who are now so well loud, boisterous voice? I am astonished that cared for, except under bad masters will, there is a man upon this floor who does in future, when frail, sickly and old, be not place his fingers in his ears and come turned loose to die, unprotected and un-at once to the conclusion that the gentlecared for, while their masters are engaged man is twenty years behind the age. It in the sweets of speculation. Those who arouses the inner humanity within me, and have muscle will pour it forth to enrich the brings a desire to look above the earth and capitalists, while the rest, numbered by appeal to the invisible world for a suitable thousands and tens of thousands will die reply tosuch an argument. The gentleman from hunger and thirst. Why should they has been talking about slavery. Does it not when none have any farther interest exist? Was not the public mind prepared in caring for them? during the last campaign to vote in favor The best men will hardly ever do any- of the Free State nominations, when in the thing of this kind unless through some inaugural address of the governor he said great interest; assuredly, then, the specula- he was in favor of immediate emancipa 1,,67: DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tion? What gentleman here who came from that canvass-who was elected under the Free State nominations, can stand upon this floor and advocate otherwise, or vote differently, when the question is put? Mr. President, look abroad around the country; look at this man-the down trodden African. What is he doing to-day for each and all of you? Why are we sitting here arrayed in broad-cloth and fine linen. living on the fat of the land 9? Go to Fort Pillow and see him bleeding and dying for you all. (Applause.) See him fighting there to uphold the folds of the glorious banner of the Union and yet the cry is, "enslave him." It is the most despicable and outrageous calumny that could be expressed against one who is fighting our battles. Mr. President, as time progressed, the question arose with the learned and intelligent minds who guard the welfare of the State. From the moment our forefathers formed the constitution of the United States, there was found to exist in these united colonies two spirits-the spirit of war and the spirit of the slavery. As we have gone on in growth, these have shown their hydra heads, and have at last come in contact, and open rebellion and civil war now reigns. In all this, Mr. President, the finger of Providence has pointed to the delivery of the injured people, as to the Children of Israel of old. and they have at last found their Abraham. What was necessary for the preservation of this Union? It became necessary that slavery should cease to exist, and therefore that wise man issued the decree of immediate emancipation. To show how far the South is behind in various ways, I will read the following: [Read from address of Dr. Dostie, " Freedom vs. Slavery.")] " Soon after the adoption of the Constitution, all the Northern States abolished and repudiated, slavery, as a violation of human rights. The blighting influence of this curse caused the great flow of immigration to settle in the Northern States; hence followed the preponderance of population, wealth and power, and the vast advantages in all the avenues of happiness the now enjoy. Listen to facts to prove 'the earth is made to shrink in barrenness' from the malign influence of slavery. " See the poverty. ignorance and desold; tion of the slave lands in contrast to great Freedom~s onward and upward course. In 1790, the population of Virginia was double that of the State of New York, In 1850, that of New York was twice as great as that of Virginia. In 1791, the exports of New York amounted to about equal those of Virginia. Sixty years after, New York surpasses Virginia in her exports rwore than eighty millions. In 1790. the imports of New York and Virginia were about equal. Sixty years after, New York surpasses Virginia more than one hundre d million dollars. In 1850, the products, manufactures, mechanics and arts in New York amounted to more than one billu dollars morel han those of Virginia. In the' same year, the value of real property in Virginia (including the negroes) is nearly one billion dollars less than that of New York. In 1856, the real and personal estate assessed i n t he city of N ew York was wofr t h more than the who le State of Virginia. The value of the fa rms, farmin g utensils, mechanical and agricultural products in New York exceed those in Virginia in the same ratio. In 1850 the hay crop in the free States amounted to more than foir times the value of the cotton, tobacco and the sugar crop of the fifteen slave States. The total value of the property of the free States is more than three times that of the slave States. The bushel products, the pound measure products, the gallon and the mining products of the Northern States' are similary ahead of the same products of the South, notwithstanding the'superior advantages of the South in soil, climate, rivers, harbors, minerals, forests, and 245,000 more squares miles of territory. In 1850 there were only eighteen hundred adult persons in Massachusetts who could not read and write. In the same year eighty thousand of the white adult inhabitants of North Carolina could neither readl nor write. The comparative intelligence is presented to illustrate the ignoran(.e, poverty and imbecility pervading the land of slavery in contrast with the land of freedom, were intelligence, wealth, prosperity, progress and happiness are ever ywrbere visible.' I ask you, do you expect any sympathy from slaveholders, who were the last claes to come forward as a majority and show their allegiance to their country. I stood in the hall a clerk under Col. French, in the days of Gen. Butler, and handled the records, anid knew the statuts of every man, and found the poor laboring men —-the me chanics-were almost the only men wv-I;o proved their loyalty to their country. (Ap II I I i I 168 -V AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. plause.) As an advocate of these men, but not a lawyer, do I stand here and debate this question to-day. But I repeat, what does any gentleman expect from those in rebellion? Some have talked of the tears of widows and orphans appealing to Heaven. I ask, gentlemen, where are the tears and cries of the widows and orphans of the hundreds of thousands who have been slain in the war fighting under the old flag to maintain its, supremacy? Talk not to me of the tears of slavehoiders. Who were the husbands of these widows? Who are to be robbed, as the gentleman calls it, of their slaves? Mr. President, there is every reason to believe the greater portion of them fell on the field of battle in deep-dyed, bloody rebellion. There are always two sides to a question,and this may be the popular one or not. These system, some of the courts would not de crec any compensation at all. We are told that we are legislating prospectively. I deny the fact! Slavery is so dead, politically and morally, that it can never be resurrected. I ask what old England did during the Colonial Government. after bringing over slaves? Scarcely had that been done, when she sent emancipation to all in Canada. Now, Mr. Presisident, how did Massachusetts get rid of her slaves? | Massachusetts had the constitutional clause, "all men are born free and equal." But under the Constitution slavery existed de fJclo. A case was brought. A negro held as a slave sued for his freedom, and the court decided that although slavery existed de facto, it did not exist, and could not, under the constitutional provision, exist de jure, and the negro was set free. The Supreme Court of Massachusetts decideld, affirming the decision of the court below, that slavery de facto was contrary to the fundamental law of the land, and therefore in violation of the constitution. That is an authentic case, and if the gentleman will produce the volume of Reports, I will show him the very case firom the decision of which every slave in Massachusetts .was emancipated, and thus slavery was abolished in Massachussetts by judicial decisions and not by legislative act, as was the case in other States. Well, why Now is there any action of the courts which intimates that masters are to be paid before emancipation is carried into effect? Has the gentleman any foundation of right to say that twelve hundred millions of dollars should be paid in advance? On the other hand is he so ignoble as to declare that this sum should be assessed on unborn generations? Our ancestors issued continental money which has never been redeemed, although we obtained our independence through the blood of the country. Should we again create a national 22 I 169 debt, only to wipe it out? If we adopt the gentlemaii's proposition the whole amount will be repudiated, I believe, as our government. did on that former occasion. Did not the South owe the North millions of money? Yet who howled for money Why, the South? So does the bankrupt. What became of these moneys?'All were wiped out by the signature of the Southern President. Suppose the:position of the gentleman is tri-te,. that all should be paid for in advance, will you vote to draw the money out ofthe Treasury forthwith? There is no slavery de facto or de jttre inside of the Confederate lines, and if you tell me that a thing exists when it does not, the fact is not changed. Can any man now sue for a slave or hire out one? Even under the old DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION were the owners not paid? We are told that these beautiful Yankees took their fine negroes, run them off to Virginia, and sold them for tobacco! Was there anything strange in this? The very man who introduced the first emancipation resolution, was John C. Calhoun, the head and trunk of this rebellion! In South Carolina some slave traders were brought before Judge Campbell, and a grand jury who were sworn to support the laws. There was a statute prohibiting the African slave trade, but not a man was in favor of finding a bill against them, but they violated their oath in order to carry out their caprice. South Carolina and Georgia, by the way, required the abolition of the slave trade to be postponed until 1806. The slave Confederacy at this day forbids the African slave trade, and yet at -at the same time it is warring on this very question of slavery, and nothing else. Slavery is both contrary to the law Of nations and natural law, and at most but a qualified property in man has and does exist, according to all writers. If you carry a negro into England or Ireland, his shackles fall off; but yet if he chooses to go back to the land of his birth, they may be rivetted on him again. Beautiful consistency! That is English philosophy! WVhile England brought slaves to Massachusetts, she turned right around on Canada, and introducing there the common law, put an end to the system. I was willing some four years ago to abolish slavery gradually, and would have voted to do so; but I wake as from a dream, and find this great republican master spirit of the world demands the abolition of it now, in order to save the Union. So I say down with it! (Applause.) I say that there are but two issues before the American people, the Union with or without slavery. This is not a'rebellion, because that can be put down by a posse comitatus; but it is a civil war, only to be ended through the might of armies and navies. The Southern States are out of the Union, and must come back under such terms as may be prescribed' by the conqueror. If the gentleman wishes an illustration of my doctrine, let him look to Rhode Island and North Carolina who refused at first to enter into the compact with our original eleven States. Thus they were isolated, liable to fall into the clutches of old mother' England; an d when Congress placed a tax upon all their imports a nd exports, they applie d for admission and were received. Louisiana is out of the Union, for the majority of the people are inside the Confederate lines fighting for that cause, and when they return they must come under the same government that now rules over ten Federal parishes-a government antagonistic to that they are now supporting. We have in the old territory of Louisiana, two governments, Federal and Confederate, the one representing- patriotism, the other treason; and the latter can only be brought back to its allegiance by physical force. That is my position, and when I am asked if I am in favor of rebellion and slavery, I say no! I am in favor of immediate emancipation. I contend that slavery does exist, and that we must incorporate into our constitution the clause'involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, shall not exist in the State of Louisiana." Mr. HILLS —'r. President: In the National Convention of 1794, a propopstion was made to abolish slavery in the American colonies belonging to France. A member of that body arose and proceeded to defend the principles of universal liberty, whereupon he was interrupted by another member, who exclaimed: "President! do not suffer the Convention to dishonor itself by a protracted discussion!" It seems to me that for three days we have been witnesses of a most extraordinary spectacle. A body of men assembled on the avowed principles of universal freedom-elected on platform of immediate emancipation, accepting seats on this floor under the proclamation which declared the slave laws in Louisiana inoperative and void, because they did not apply to any class of persons in this State —I say, a body so elected under that proclamation and upon that platform, is compelled to listen for three days, to one of its members standing up here and defending the accursed system of American slavery as it existed before this war. I said in my previous remarks, we could not do 170 AND AMENDMT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 171 ' which has overthrown slavery in this State forevermore. ( Applause. ) There is no slavery here and never can be. If all the thunder bolts of Jove could be gathered together and discharged at once, they could not shake the earth enough to awaken from its eternal sleep the carcass of this miserable institution. The gentleman has attempted to justify slavery from the example of the Egyptians. I admire him for it. It is most fitting and proper that the man who stands up in this day and age to justify such a system, should go back to the Egyptians, whose religious altars smoked with human sacrifices, and whose idols were the mos t gros s an d obscen e of a ll the Pagan nations of which we have any hi.storical record. I intend no disrespect to the gentleman. He is much my senior in a ge, and my superior in learning; but I say if the gentleman were to die, I should expect to see him embalmed in an Egyptian sarcophagus, with a hieroglyphical inscription upon his tomb, which, if I were permitted to suggest, would consist of two words: " Old'Fogy." (Laughter.) Let him go back to the Egyptians-that is where slavery belongs. Let him go back to the Roma'ns and Greeks-that is where it belongs. It belongs to the rude ages of mankind, before the light of Christianity and civilization had fallen upon the human family. Has he forgotten that these very men whom he holds up as models for us to follow and copy, had gladiatorial shows, and that under their institutions men were thrown into the arena to be devoured by wild beasts? He can justify that as well as slavery. He can justify polygamy by the example of the ancient nations, and every other species of voice and crime. But I supposed we had grown up beyond the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians. I thought -that we were freeborn anad enlightened Americans-living in a time of revolution, to be sure, but still adhering to those great landmarks of freedom that were so dear to our fathers, and which, I believe, are dear to the majority of this Convention. Not satisfied with attempting to justify slavery by the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, he has attempted to bring to its side the divine Scriptures and the sublime teach anything to p erpe tuate slavery without committing perjury before God and man. For that re mark I hav e bee n arra igned here as attempting to menace this Convention by some au thority of the commanding general. I repel all such insinuations as false and groundless, but I re peat, that in my opinion, gent lemen, members of thi s Convention cannot stand up here and argue in favor of slavery in any form a, without committing m oral p erjury. T hat is what I said, and to that I shall adhere. [ Appl.,use. ] Mr. P resident, the gentleman from the Fifth District [ Mr. Abell ] h as seen fit to make a l ong argument to overthrow my assertion tha t slavery does not exist in the State of Louisiana. I s ay that assertion is literally true, that there is not a slave in the Stat e of Lo uisi ana t o-day. The re is no slaver y, and ca n be none without the presence of physical power to enforc e the o bedience of the slave to his master. That is an indis pens ab le element of slavery, withou sl t hich i t ca nno t exist. I ask the g entleman, where is the force to-day to compel th e lab or of the slave in this State? Where is the auction-block? where is the lash? where is the power of the master to whip his slave and to e nforce h is will? Th e auction-block has disappeared in the light of the new civilization that has dawned upon us; the slave marts, wher e hu man be ing s were crowded together like cattle, thank God! is no more among us; and the lash has been ab olished-first by the g reat law of necessity, and secondly by the proclaniation of military power. If the gentleman thinks slavery still exists, let him attempt to sell a slave within the Federal lines. Suppose he advertises a slave for sale at auction to-morrow. On the way the slave says, "I wish to cross the street." He goes, and the gentleman from the Fifth follows and attempts to seize him by the collar and drag him to the auction; what is the result? The gentleman from the Fifth is arrested for a breach of the peace, committed for assault and battery (laughter) and brought into the court, and under the present laws of the State the man he has attempted by force to take to the auction-block stands his equal, as he does in the sight of that almighty law of justice DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION ings of Christianity. Now, Mr. President, if you go back in the ecclesiastical history of ,the world, you will find every infamy that has been perpetrated has been done in the name of some religion. It is not the first time that men have stolen the livery of heaven to serve the devil in. How many wars and massacres have been committed in the name of Christianity? Does that prove that Christianity countenances massacre, butchery, robbery and crime? Not at all; it only proves they were done hypocritically in its name. If the gentleman wishes to go into an argument in favor of fraud, he might distort some parts of the Scripture to prove it was right. He might take the case of Jacob and Esau, where the former clearly swindled the latter out of his birthright, to prove that swindling is a proper and divine institution, and ought to be incorporated into the constitution of Louisiana, which we are here to frame to-day. I am ashamed that any man in the latter half of the nine- Now, I propose to let Mr. Abell answer teenth century, with so much learning and Mr. Abell, by referring to different portions ability, should spend time in attempting to of his speeches. I will put the gentleman make us believe that slavery is in accor- from the Fifth District against the gentledance with the precepts of religion. Sir, man from the Fifth District; and I think it that divine Being, who came down to teach is better so than to answer him myus the right path, gave us one command- self. ment, one precept, which blasts forever the He tells us with a great deal of flourish institution of slavery, and human wrong that the nature of the negro is idleness, that and injustice of every kind: "All things he will not work unless compelled to under whatsoever ye would that men should do the lash of the driver. In the next breath unto you, do ye even so unto them." I say he tells us he believes if these same lazy, that in this precept he blasted forever this idle, good-for-nothing vagabond negroes are institution of slavery, which is essentially set free, they will come in competition with unjust in itself, and founded in piracy and the wAhite laborers, who will stand no chance robbery-a system of violence and usurpa- at all. There is Mr. Abell against Mr. Abell. tion from beginning to end. (Laughter and applause.) Not satisfied with the Egyptians, Greeks In the same strain he boasted that the and Romans and religion, the gentleman American people, being a mixture of all the has brought to his aid the illustrious blood of the world, was the greatest, the names of American history-those men who most powerful, civilized, and altogether the founded our institutions. lie has told us smartest race ever existing on the face of they wereslaveholders, but very judiciously the earth. HIe boasted we had whipped has he refrained from telling us what they England two or three times, and that we thought of slavery itself. He has referred could thrash France, and were never to Washington, but forgot to tell us what whipped ourselves and never could be, in was the dearest wish of his heart. Washing- the nature of things. The next moment he ton said: "This is among the first wishes of says if the slaves are freed in Louisiana my heart, to see some plan adopted by they will rise up and imbue their hands in which slavery in this country may be abol- the blood of his posterity. Though not at ished by law." Henry Laurens, of South all afraid of England, France or any other 172 Carolina, wrote to his son in 1776: "I abhor slavery." Jefferson has been quoted here. In speaking of the slaves be says: "We must wait with patience the workings of,in overruling Providence, brethren." 11 Brethren," is the word which Thomas Jefferson applied to these men. "When the measure of their tears is full-when their groans shall have enfolded heaven itself in darkness, the God of Justice will awakeq to their distresses, and by diffusing light and liberality among their oppressers, or at least by His exterminating thunder, may inanifest to the world that they are not left to the guidance of blind fatuity.',' Mr. President, the exterminating thunder has come! The accumulated wrongs which this people have heaped upon an unfortunate race, brought it - down from high Heaven, and it has obliterated this system in Louisiana, as it has throughout the whole land. (Applause.) AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. white nation, he is much afraid of the negroes! Another instance of the gentleman answering himself is where he says the white never would labor for so small pay as negroes. Then he asks what we are going to do with the negroes if we set them free. I think he gave a good answer to his own question when he said they would work for less wages than the white man. He says again the negroes are perfectly miserable-are in a most degraded condition-entirely incapable of taking care of themselves. Then he states that slavery is a civilizing and elevating institution. Now I want to know how many centuries it takes to elevate a race so that it is capable of taking care of itself? This institution, which the gentleman would have us believe is so benignant and elevating to the blacks, has been in existence in Louisiana from the earliest period of her history down to the moment of rebellion, and yet, according to the same gentleman, to-day this race has become so degraded that it is utterly unable to take care of itself! Another instance of this logic. He says the bone and sinew of the country would be driven out of the State by the emancipation of the slaves. In the next breath almost, he tells us that negroes, organized under slavery, will work a great deal better than if they are free. Now, then, if the negroes are going to work more in slavery than when they are free, I wish to know how freeing them is to drive the white laboring man out of Louisiana? If the negro will work better as a slave, I think the white man has less chance of employment under a system of slavery! aegis of the Union her slaveholders were in secure possession of their slaves; that it was the rebellion that interrupted this prosperity, de stroyed slave ry and plunged the State into the conditi on in wh ich we n ow find her. I would like to have him point out in w hat mann er the military authorities have ever oppressed the people of Louisiana -to point out to us how this Conven tio n would have been called to gethe r but for these very authorities. Mr. President, I could but feel as I h ave listened to this discussion, that we see here at least some of the fruits of the efforts of our noble soldier s who have fallen in the battle-field for their country. Let me ask the gentleman, if I had stood upon this floor, or any other in Louisiana, three years ago, and said what I have said to-day, what course would have been pursued by this slaveh.olding oligarchy he stands up here to defend? The halter, sir, was the penalty for free speech in Louisiana then.- Does not the gentleman know that intellectual bondage is inseparably connected with slavery everywhere? Does he not know that as the most gross and loathsome productions of nature flourish only in her darkest recesses, so the loathsome and hideous institution of slavery can grow only where the light of civilization and free speech are carefully excluded? He knows that before the Federal flag came up the river on the flagship of that gallant old tar, FarragO, to stand up in this hall, and speak as I have spoken and as others have spoken, would have been met with the penalty of instant death. Talk to us of oppression! Let him go back and read the annals of slavery. and see how many murders have been committed in its behalf and under its shield. There is no crime against free speech, free conscience, free opinion, that has not been perpetrated in behalf of this system; and yet the gentleman stands up and calls the people of Louisiana oppressed! How many rights would he enjoy if the Federal flag were not here'? He has told us he tho,tght civil government in Louisiana would be detrimental to the people. I ask the gentleman why then he is here'? If the interests ofthe people aloe opposed to this Convention, why The gentleman, in the course of his remarks, has seen fit to speak of the people of Louisiana under the presidential and military authority as an "1 oppressed," people. If the people of Louisiana are oppressed, as the gentleman would have us be lieve. I wish hi m to tell us by w hom w e are oppressed? He seems to forget that three years ago the rebellion was forced upon the country by the slaveholding oligarchy; that Louisiana was in the full enjoyment of commercial and agricultural prosperity, and that under the protecting 178 DEBATES IN TM CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION constitution, he will find that such is the fact. All the wise men who helped to frame that constitution believed that slavery was an evil, and would speedily die out. He has mentioned some illustrious names. Let me ask him if he knows the opinion of Benjamin Franklin on the subject? I beg to remind him he was the president of the first abolition society ever organized in the United States. Does he know the opinion of Judge Jay? Can he bring forward, in the annals of our country, the name of one great man of the revolutionary period who said a single word in defence of slavery? PRESIDE-E\T-The time is up. Mr. TERRY I move that the gentleman have leave to conclude his remarks. [The motion was carried.] Mr. HILLS-Gentlemen, I am much obliged to you, but do not desire to proceed farther to-night. Mr. TERRY-I move that we adjourn,' and that Mr. Hills have the floor to-morrow morning, with leave to conclude his remarks. [The motion was carried.) does he consent to occupy a seat in this hall? If the Federal flag were to be displaced by that bastard banner, the flag of the Confederacy, the gentleman might escape the halter fo r having so faithfully defended the rebellion here, but even that might not be sufficient to save his neck, M r. ABELL-I call th e g ent leman to order. I have not advocated the rebellion on this floor. THE CHAIR-The gentleman f rom t he Seond District (Mr. Hills) is in of:ler. M-r. HILLS-I asser t that for three days the gentleman from the Fifth (Mfr Abell) has defended the rebellion on t his floor. M r. ABELL-I call the gent leman to ord er again, sir. I deny that have advocated the rebellion. THE CHAIR-The gentl eman is in o rder. Mr. ABELL-Then, sir, I respectfull y app eal from the deci sion of the chair. [The question was then put: Shall the c hair be sust ai ned?] [The question was carried.] Mr. HILLS-I trust the interruption will not be d educted from my half hour. I asserted, with a fulleknowledge of the meaning-of my words, that for three days the gentleman has defended the rebellion on this floor. I will now explain what I meant. I say that any man who stands up and defends slavery defends the rebellion, for they are synonymous terms at this moment. [pplause.] The gentleman has taken, I suppose, the' iron-clad " oath of the president. If so. he has sworn allegiance and obedience to the proclamation of the president, and to all the laws of Con' gress framed on this subject. The rebellion is the legitimate child of slavery, Slavery was sure to bring on rebellion in this country, and the wisest men in the land foresaw it years ago. The prophetic words of Jefferson, which I, repeated, foreshadowed it. The framers of our constitution did not belibve that it would long remain in existence in the United States, and carefully avoided all direct allusion to it in the constitution, because they regarded it as a disgrace and a system that ought to be and would be abolished. If the gentleman will take the trouble to examine the debates on the adoption of the THURSDAY, May 5, 1864. [At 12 o'clock t. the president called the Convention to order. The roll was called, and the following gentlemen answered to their names; Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook T., Cook J. K., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane, Duke, Dufiresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg. Fosdick, Flood, Foley, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Hart. Healy, Heard, Hills, Howes, Kavanagh. Kugler, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wells, Wilson —77. The minutes of yesterday were read by the secretary and approved.] Mr. TERRY —Mr. President. I have a preamble and resolution to offer, which I desire to have read and laid over for one dav. Whereas, Large sums of money have, during the past year, been remitted to this State for the purpose of aiding in the forma 174 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. tion of a free State government in Louisiana, and it is now a fitting time that the said moneys should be applied to the patriotic purpose of the dondrs; and this Convent ion is informed that said moneys are in the hands of the so-called "Free State General Committee," of which Thomas. J. Durant is president, James Graham, secretary, and Edward Heath, treasurer; Resolved, That the auditor end treasurer of the State be requested to report to this body whether said funds have been paid into the treasury of the State, for the purpose of being properly devoted to the objects of the contributors; and if not, that the said auditor and treasurer be empowered to demand of the said Thomas J. Durant, James Graham and Edward Heath, and officers of said committee, the delivery of said funds, or an account of the uses to which they may have been applied; and that the said auditor and treasurer be instructed to make such further inquiries and investigations as may be necessary, and report the result thereof to this Conventior. Mr. BELL —-I desire to offer the following resolution: Resolved. That the thanks of this Convention be and are hereby tendered Captain Stephen Hoyt, U.S. army, and acting mayor of the city, and G. W. R. Bayley, city surveyor, for the able and efficient manner in which they have, by their untiring energy and attention, fitted up this hall' for the Louisiana State Constitutional Convention. Mr. STAUFFER-I call up my resolution of yesterday. Mr. HiLLS-I move it be referred to the Committee on General Provisions. [The motion was carried.] Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer. I have noticed that for several days Judge Howell has been absent from his seat. Now, this is a question of great importance, and every member ought to be present during its consideration. No member should be allowed to dodge his responsibility to his constituents on the issues involved in this question. Therefore, Resolved, That the sergeant-at-arms be and is hereby directed to ascertain the cause of the non-attendance at the Convention of the Hon. R. K. Howell, of the Seventh Representative District. Mr. HILLs-I agree with the gentleman perfectly as to the importance of the issues involved and the necessity of having every member present, and I therefore move to amend his resolution so as to include all the members of the Convention absent from this body now in the ci ty, a nd move a suspension of th e rule s in order to ta ke imme - diate action on th e resolu tion. [The rules were suspended, the amendment carried, and the resolution as a mende d adopted.] Mr. CA.MPBELI, -— I offer a resolution: Resolve d, T hat no vot e on emancipation be taken by this Con ve nti on until every member of this Convention bere present. PRESIDEN —The resolution lies o ve r one day under the rules. The unfinished business, the order of the da y, now com es up. Mer. BROTT —-Mr. President, I move to substitute for the minority report the following, which I wis h to have added to a a the majority report as one more section, to follow sec. 5: Sec. 6. The governor of this State, on or before the 1stpof June next, shall appoint three commissioners, who shall hold their office ti ll the 1st of January, 1865. The commissioners, so appointed, shall be loyal to the government of the United States, and qualified voters in this State at the last gubernatorial election. They shall have their office in the city of New Orleans, and hold their sessions six hours each day, (Sundays excepted.) The sum of three thousand dollars shall be paid each of them, as salary, during their term of office. It shall be the duty of said commissioners, on application of any citizen of this State, for compensation for any slave or slaves, to determine as follows: First, the loyalty of the claimant; second, the ownership or title of the claimant to his slaves; third, the relative value of the slaves so claimed. They shall classify the slaves and determine their value as follows, to-wit: First class. $300 00 Second class.......... 200 00 Third class......."I'll.:....... 100 00 The said commissioners shall report to the Legislature, during its session in 1865, the names of claimants under this provision, with their conclusions as to who are entitled to payment and what sum they should be allowed. It shall be the duty of the Legislature, if they approve the whole or any part of said report made by the commissioners to pass an act authorizing the bonds of the State to- be issued, payable twenty years from date, bearing interest at four per cent. per annum, interest payable annually; which bonds shall be delivered to sucn claimants in such sums as the Legislature shall determine, being in compensation in full for the slaves hereby emancipated. No claim for compensation shall be considered or allowved after the first day of January, 1865. 175 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION sir, is a local institution, founded upon State laws and not upon any national law. The slaveholder of Louisiana, before the war, did no t rely on the constitution of the United States for the right to sell his slaves on the auction-block; he did not rely upon any of the laws of Congress for his authority to wield the lash on his plantation, but he derived his power from tme Black Code of Louisiana, and the acts of -,he Legislaturq of this State. But we find, sir. that notwithstanding all the framers of the constitution were opposed to slavery as a principlebelieving it to be wrong, cruel, unjust, and opposed to the interests of the country, the new doctrine was promulgated by the slaveholding oligarchy and seemingly gained growth year after year, that slavery was a divine institution and sanctioned and sanctified by the laws of God and humanity, and that it found secure shelter and perpetual support in the constitution and laws of the land. Year after year the slave power came on apace with it s aggressions, and demanded this and that surrender on the part of these States. Surrender after surrender was made, until the people of the free States finally arose in their majesty and said to the slave power, "thus far shalt thou come and.,no farther-the territories of the country, the national domain in which all have an equal interest, shall hereafter be free!" That is what they said when they elected Abraham Lincoln, our worthy chief magistrate.' They did not propose to strike down the right of slaveholders in Louisiana-they did not propose to interfere with slavery in any of the States. I know the falsehood was insidiously circulated by the pro-slavery press, both North and South, that the Republican party was an ablition party. But as one of its members, who had, I believe, pretty good knowledge of its principles, I tell you that party had no intention of interfering with the institution of slavery in the States where it existed by law. The issue upon which we went to the country was the extension or the non-extension of slavery into the national territories, which we believe were iDee by the great lawns of nature, andlc ought to remain frsee forever. But after PRESID.ENT-It must lie over under the rules. Mr. HILLS-Mr. President, at the conclusion of my half hour, yesterday, the Convention very kindly voted that I should have leave to continue my remarks. I der dlined to do so at that time, but understood that I was to have the floor this morning. If any gentleman objects to me proceeding against the rules, I will yield the floor; but if there is no objection, I should like to make some further observations on this most grave and interesting subject. [Cries of "no objection,"' and "go on!"] Mr. HILLS continued-I intend to speak of principles and not of men. For the gentleman from the Fifth District [Mir. Abell] I have personal respect and esteem, but his principles, as set forth on this floor, I hold in utter detestation. At the same time it may be useful to have a representative of these heathenish sentiments in the Free State Convention. We have all heard of the temperance lecturer who found it useful to take his drunken brother along as a horrible example of intoxication, and as a contrast to the results of total abstinence. And so it may serve to set forth our noble work of emancipation in more glowing colors, if we have constantly with us a champion and defender of the faith delivered unto the Copperheads. I said yesterday that the gentleman from the Fifth District had for three days advocated rebellion on this floor; but the gentleman's interription and the stroke of the president's hammer prevented me explaining this remark so fully as I desired to explain it. I endeavored to show that the framers of the constitution of this republic were opposed to slavery as a principle, and only tolerated it because it existed, and because they thought that in a very few years it would be abolished by the progress of freedom and civilization. I alsoQstated that in the constitution which they framed they did not mention the word "slave" or "slavery." While certain provisions of that wise document have evident reference to the subject of slavery, and recognize it as an existing institution, I deny emphatically that slavery finds any support in the constitution or w laws of the National Legislature. Slavery, o 176 AND AME1ND OF TI CO0NSTITttON OF 0)OtTISAA. very beginning of his speech he says, "I have repeated, and again say, that I never saw the day, and never expect to see it, when I was in favor of slavery!" So that after spending two days to convince us that it is right, he states on the third day he does not believe in it himself. I ask why he does not believe in it, if it is divine, and sanctioned, and sanctified by the Scrip tures and by Almighty God? If it is the best thing that can possibly happen to the African and the master, I ask him why in Gods name he is not in favor of it? I should be the last man, if I believed in his argument, to say I was not in favor of it. The gentleman in his remarks of yester day tried to convince us that liberating the slaves of this State by constitutional enact ment would be a species of wholesale rob bery on the part of this Convention, and told us, in substance, Mr. President, that the government of the United States had stolen all the property of the disloyal peo ple, and that the Convention now proposes to steal all that is left in the hands of the loyal. Now, Mr. President, if there is no slave r y in this State to-day, I want to know who is responsible for it? If there has been any robbery of slaves in Louisiana, I wish him to explain who are the robbers? I will tell you who they are. They are the people of Louisiana themselves, who of their own accord, by pass ng the act of secession, and by inaugurating the rebellion, ruined and destroyed their slave property forever. If there is any robber, it is the secessionist, not the Union army, who came down to uphold the honor and integrity of the coun try. This people inaugurated the civil war against the United States,,and in its progress, as wise men foresaw from its beginning, it became a military necessity to emancipate their slaves. Emancipation came not as an act of robbery, not as an act of violence against the people, but, as I have said, as an act of military necessity, and to uphold the integrity and honor of the flag. When a country is at war, its government can tax its resources to the utmost for its defence. When the national life is at stake, will any body say that the Goveranment has not a right to free slaves, or take anly species of propert~y in any the election-when the sovereign people had decided tha t t he d octrine of non-exten sion should prevail, wha t was th e course of the slaveholding oligarchy, for whos e rights the gentleman from the Fifth is so solici to us i Why, sir, they said the will of the p eopl e should not be obeyed-that the const itut ion and the laws should be set at defiance; th at Abraham Lincoln, although rightfully and legally elected, shoul d not be presiden t of the slaveholding States. They revolted, and what was the cause of it? Slavery, sir. The slave power was balked in its pur pose t o draw t o its embrace the free terri tories of the nation. T he c hamp ions and instigator s of the rebellion told us they se - ceded in ord er to pr otect their divine in stithrtion of hum an bon dage. It w as slavery first, last and a lways; slavery in the begin- ning, the m iddl e and the end! The vice-presi den t of the so-call edConfederacy told us th at sl avery was the corner stone ofthat ex traordinaryfabric. Eve ry slaveholder and ev ery candid p ro-slavery newspaper that has spok en on this subject s ince the out break of the war, has told us it was all in the interest of slavery; and every one who studies the subject candidly and impartially cannot fail to come to the conclusion that slavery is the great and t he s ole cause of the rebellion. Therefore it is, I said, the gentle man has for three days advocated rebel lion on this floor; and I assert, without the fear of logical contradiction, that no man can defend slavery without also defending the rebellion. Mr. President, we have all heard of men who upset their own kettle of fish, and it strikes me the gentleman from- the Fifth has given us a luminous example of this catastrophe. He labored for two long days, all through Monday and Tuesday, to show that slavery was justifiable, not only by the example of the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians, and by the Scriptures, but he would make us believe it was justifiable in itself — right in the abstract, and every way; that it was beneficent to the slave and the white man. After laboring two days, to build up, establish and defend the divine right, origin and historical sanctity of this institution, what did he tell uls yesterday? In the 23 177 11 178 DEBATES IN THE CONENTION FOR THE REVISION State or any part of the country, to maintain hereafter. They can bring their claims its own existence? The gentleman might against Louisiana or the national govern as well say that the Government has no ment for their property, as they call it, right to demand his time of the soldier. when perhaps they will get compensation There are thousands and hundreds of and perhaps they will not. Slavery does -housands of men in the army to-day, who not exist in any parish for the reason I were making more money at home than have already stated, and for another and they possibly can in their present situation. perhaps a better reason, which is that a The gentleman might, I say. consider this a| large portion of those who formerly were species of robbery, thus to make these men slaves are now soldiers in the ranks of the devote their time and leave their business Union army. (Applause.) Will the gentleto join the ranks, and the argument would man tell us that the men who have imbe as good in one case as in the other. It perilled their lives in the defence of the became necessary to liberate the slaves of flag of their country, the men who wear rebels, because the Southerners were using the uniform and carry the bayonet of the them against us —-upon the plantations to Union, are ever to be made slaves again? raise products while the rebels were fight- Mr. President, the ensanguined fields of ing us. More than this, they were in the Port Hudson bear witness to the valor of rebel service, employed as teamsters, and those men, who, in three successive charges in some instances. as there is pretty good in the very mouth of the enemy's guns, reason for believing, even as soldiers. To proved the fact that the negro would die strike down slavery was then to strike for the Union. (Great applause.) Does he down the strong arm of the rebellion. tell us that such men, their relatives, wives The gentleman has told's that certain or children, shall ever wear the shackles parishes are excepted in the President's of slavery again? It would be a shame. a proclamation. I wish to look at that for tdisgrace, a stain upon the nation, which the one moment. If any one entertains the blood of all our soldiers could never wash idea that because Mr. Lincoln exempted out. Mr. President, the earth cannot receive certain parishes in his proclamation of in the same instant the footprint of a soldier emancipation, he therefore secured or and a slave! (Applause.) guaranteed slavery in them, he his very The gentleman from the Fifth has flauntmuch mistaken. Ile did not, in that doc- ed in our faces, during a three days' utmeat, guarantee any' rights whatever to speech, the phantom (for it is a phantom) of slaveholders, but merely said that while the | egro equality. Now. if you go to the free institution was abolished in certain par- States, you find there is no negro equality ishes, it was in the others left to take care tlhe*re. Is the gentleman afraid that the of itself. white race is so much upon a level with Mr. President, slavery hasi not been able to the negro that negro equality will prevail, take care of itsef in the parish of Orleans or unless we forever subject' the blacks to the in any of the other excepted ones, because, as most foul injustice and keep them perI have said. it is the creature of local law, petually under our feet? I suppose he is one depending upon State legislation for its of those who are afraid of amalgamation, existence, and by the act of rebellion the or, as it is politely termed in these modern State laws were suspended if not abolished, days, miscegenation! I suppose he fears oand there are now no operative laws under if the slaves are liberated, that all the fair which slavery can be supported or upheld daughters of the land will be seized with a in this State. The element of physical brute desire to marry negroes, and that the young force. to compel the obedience of the slave men will also wish to marry negresses! io his master, is wanting, since it does not Now, Mr. President, according to my belief, exist in this parish nor any within our lines. that is a matter of taste. [Laughter.] I have Mir. Lincoln, by his proclamation, as I no taste for that sort of equality myself, admit, leaves the claim of the slaveholders and accordingly have no fear of it. If in the excepted parishe: to be adjudicated gentlemen fear any such thing, I cannot AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. undertake to explain their reasons for it. slaveholder, but of the two hundred men he So far as the matter of equality and amal- says nothing. That is his gospel, but 1 gamation is concerned, I do not see that believe that the divine command of the Northern or free States have given so Christ applies to the African as well, and lumilnous an exemple of it as the slave States. for I have observed, during some four years spent in Maryland, Virginia and Louisiana. that there are a great manv socalled negroes, with very white faces, and [ believe that they were born in a State of slavery! There must be some practical explanation of this. I have seen more mtulattoes, quadroons, and all that sort of l persons, in one day in Louisiana. than I t.ver saw inl all my life in any free State! I anm not a'raid of negro equality, because I believe that the white race is the dominant race in this country, and always will be. I believe it is superior in intelligence and skill, and that the Anglo-Saxon race is des- tined in the providence of God, to rule this country forever. The mean fear of this I phantom of negro equality never has kept a me awake for a single moment, and I 41o I not believe it ever will. i The gentleman tells us that if the slaves; are free, we shall have to pltace a gospel minister uipon every street corner and plantation. and that with all that trouble we cannot keep them straight. Well, Mr.! President. I agree with the gentleman perfectly, if these gospel ministers stre to preach the sanme kind of gospel that the gentlinan hais preached on this floor; I think that that kind of gospel never would succeed in keeping negroes or anybody else straight, particularly when we consider that gentleman's exposition of the divine precept, "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do unto yoii, do ye etven so unto them." It st uck me in listenilg.to the gentlemani's exposition, that he hald at very singlar method of appplying that commandment. and that it sh)olul. acc()rdidig to hiniI, read like this: "A.ll things whatsoever tihe slavehliolder would that slavehliolders should ] edo Ilnlto him, do ye even so!'I He leaves out the' slave entirely. Here, let us sutppose, is a man with two hundred slaves, and the gentleman says, I will do unto this mail as I would have him do unto me, if I were a that we should do.into him as we would that he should do unto us. (Applause.) I prefe r to take my theology, not from the lips of the gentleman from the Fifth District, but from the lips of the Divine Teacher, who said, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the leaist of these my little ones, ye have done it unttto me." The lowest atnd most degraded being has claims upon us. equal to those of the highest and greatest; and this divine gospel, which is so distorted to apply to the slaveholder, but not to the slave, I say applies as much to the one as to the other. It the geiitleman from the Fifth prefers to seek the emblems of his gospel among(, negro whipping-posts and negro auction-blocks, the lash and insignia of despotic power; if he wants the iinstritinent,s of the slaveholder's torturesithe thumbscrew and the heavy irons —to represent his gospel, he is welcome to them; but these do not represent my gospel. (.Applause.) I prefer to take mine from Pauil, who tells us that God '*hath made of one blood all the nations of men to (dwell upon all the face of the earth.!' I prefer the sublim-e words of Isa,iah, who said: "Is not this the fast that I have chosen, to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens and let the oppressed go free?9"' I don't believe the negro whipping-post is the best emblem of Clhrist,ianity and civilization; if the gentleman floes. he is welcome to his I I I I II I 179 viewi4. The gentleman trom ttio Fifth 1.)istriet, amon the other illustrioii,3 names quoted, to boNv tbta,t 41.,tvery is legal and right, bft,s that of iid-t T-,itiey, of the' Supreme Court of the States, and bit (I(-cisii)n in, the famous Scott case, in wlticb. with disregard for all natural is Constitutional la,A, and.. -1 think, for all laiv, tli,(At jiidge tells us that the negro has no rights which the whit( nian is bound to respect. Mr. President, I aiii not much of -,t -lawyer, although I (lid read BlackStolle, Kent and a few -4iieh books, when k DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION several years younger, but it strikes enemies, have'beenmost brutally murdered me there ought to be the principle of in cold blood by these sons of chivalry. justice and common sense in all law. But This is a poor time of day to stand up here it would seem, from the gentleman's ar- and defend this system of slavery, that so gument, that he was trying to convince brutalizes those who wield its power. One this Convention that the law is utterly de- of my colleagues from the Second District void of both. I believe there are statutes [Col. Thorpe] has already told us what an and codes higher than constitutions, written excitement prevails in consequence of the in the hearts and affections of men no massacre at Fort Pillow. It seems as though legislation can obliterate. There are moral the enemies of this country were determined obligations resting upon every nan which this should become a war of extermination no statute can change. I think we have a -were determined to do everything that good illustration of the instability of Judge may be done to provoke the United States Taney's law in the course of events since government to a bloody retaliation. These that decision was promulgated. The slasve- crimes are all committed in behalf of slaveholding oligarchy boasted that, by this ry, and still in a Free State Convention, famous decision, slavery was fixed forever elected on the platform of immediate more-nothing could disturb it in this emancipation, called into existence under a country. But I think we have found by proclamation declaring slavery abolished, this time that even Judge Taney's decision we have for three days listened to a gentlewas not sufficient to blot out from the manl advocating it as sanctified by ancient human heart those laws, written there by example, and approved by Christianity the finger of God, and that the divine laws itself. are stronger than the decisions of any judge. Mr. President: It was my fortune, on Since that decision -was promulgated,I Since that decision was promulgated Monday, to stand on the consecrated field slavery, in spite of it, has been swept of Chalmette, now green with the verdure away by the course oeofspring, anld eternally green in the meatway by the course of events, and.Judge Taney's decree, and all other laws ever mory of patriots as the scene of Jackson's made, or attempted to be made, to uphold fame-a spot sanctified by the blood of it, have proved impotent to circumvent the those noble heroes of the second war, who decrees of Heaven. (Applause.) fought and bled for the honor and integrity As one of the results of this system oftheir country. The occasion was the dediof slavery, which the gentleman has so cation of the ground as a cemetery for ardently advocated, we have heard a great Union soldiers, and I was pleased to see deal of slaveholding chivalry; we have on that historic field a great number'of the been told that the sons of slaveholders delegates of this Convention, and I could were particularly noted for heroic and not but feel as I walked over that hallowed chivalric qualities. If I understand chiv- spot, that the struggle which made it foralry from some reading of it, as it was ever historic was not so important as this practiced in the earlier ages, it is that prin- which is now going on. The men of that ciple that leads the strong to defend the generation periled their lives and fought weak: wherever innocence, virtue and for the integrity of their country, but the helplessness presented itself and was in soldiers of this conflict are fighting under peril, there the true,knight was bound to the impulses of a new civilization; there is draw his sword and go to its defence. It a new epoch in our history more glorious seems to me this slaveholding chivalry, for liberty, and it seems to me any man which has been illustrated at Fort Pillow, whose feet pressed that soil, must have is a very different article. I understand come away feeling it is a solemn and moupon Red river it has been illustrated in a mentous duty we have to perform heresimilar manner, that soldiers-native- to uphold that same flag, that same honor, born white citizens of Louisiana, who that same liberty, for the martyrs of which have volunteered for the defence of their that burial ground has been set apart. country and this State against its armed (Great applause.) 180 ik A.ND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Mr. BROMLEY-I wish to ask the members Slavery is dead, and we have spent time of this Convention if we are legislating enough at the tomb; let us cast our eyes for the past or the present; whether we are towards the resurrection of the free, and called upon to listen to arguments in favor the dawn of that better existence. I trust that it will not be said that this State, after emancipating the negro, made no provision for the education of negro children. I hope that the members of this Convention, instead of raking up the past, will let it rest in its grave. We have spent some thirty days in attempting to revisethe constitution of this State, and what ha.s been done? We have been wasting our time on resolutions and legislating upon subjects that do not properly come before this Convention, and how we are employing it in the attempt to resuscitate the Pagan and barbarian institution of slavery. of slavery, such as we hae heard for the last three days from the gentleman from the Fifth District? He has seen fit to uIdearth t he skele to n of slavery. Ile h as unwrapped th e ba ndag e s that envelope the mummy, with a' patience and zeal that would do credit to Layard, or any other antiquary seeking for fossils and relics of the bu ried past. If the gentleman will continu e h is work of resurrection, he may find its hist ory inscribed in e wse words: ":ene, Tekel, Lhp7arsin," which, accord ing to the interpret ation of these latter days, reads: r' ene; w God numbere d thy kingdom ai d finished it. ps Tekel;' thoil ar t weighed in the balances and found wanting. " Upharsin;" thy kingdom is divided among the Yankees and Abolitionists! He has seen fit to refer to the widow and orphan, who, by immediate emancipation, wi ll lose $150,000,000 i n sla ves. Allow m e to ask the gentleman from the Fifth District to enlighten us as to the mean ing of the terms widow an d orphan? Are these ndesirable conditions of life confined entirely to the slaveholding whit e r ace? Look over the item s going to swell that $150,000,000. The re you wi ll find widows indeod, who were made so by the mif laws which regulate th a t heaven-born institution. We believe the emancipati on a nd educati on of the colored race will prove to be an element of wealth and prosperity to these slave States that will be unparalleled in the history of nations. We claim that the immediate emancipation of this people, with an. enlightened system of common school education, will develop higher moral and mental qualities. making that race an element of success and advancement in this State, where old laws, old forms and old customs are fast passing away, to make room for a better state of things. Mr. President, this institution is as much a thing of the past in the history of the United States, as is the feudal system a thing of the past in the history of Europe. Mr. STOCKERP-I shall vote in favor of the motion now before the House, which is, I believe, to reject the minority report. After stating that fact, I desire to state also to this Convention, that it is not from any sentimental feelings or conscientious feelings I. have against slavery that I vote for its rejection and support the majority report, but because I b eli eve our country demands it of us. Although I was born and reared in a slave State, I have never met with the horrors that have been pictured to this Convention. The gentleman from Orleans, Mr. Terry, has spoken of the " down-trodden African."' I have never seen him. I have no sympathy with the African; my sympathies are with the white man and not with the negro. My hand is against the African, and I am for pushing him off the soil of this country. ere at Fort Pillow. W he have no official information that these acts have been committed, although I believe it as much as any other gentleman, but until it is officially reported, we have no right to say such things have occurred. I say that until we pass the ordinance of emancipation slavery does exist, because we have the proclamation of the president saying that it does exist in the parish of Orleans and other parishes. I am in favor of the Convention saying by its action that slavery does not exist; but as long as the i i i i I i II I I I i II i 181 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION According to the census of 1790 there were in New Hampshire 158 Africans in involuintary servitude, and 17 in Vermont; and, even as late as 1830, there were slaves in every New England State but Vermont. The sin of its introduction does not rest on the Ame rican peopl e; but Eng land had rid herself of its last vestige long before we seriously contemplated carrying out the spirit as well as the letter of the constitution, which proclaims that - all men are born free and equal!' The sages who framed that almost divine instrlment, the constitution of the United States. did not admit the word " slavery' into any of its salutary provisions. They probably, in the plenitude of their wisdom. with prophetic vision, looked far into the filture, and saw that the " institution' would become a power; that negro bondsmen would be counted by millions in place of thousands; atd that what then appeared a necessity would eventually become a curse! All hlowor to such mean. They law stands let us support the law, yet the sooner we arrive at the conclusion the president is wrong in saying that slavery does exist in Orleans, the better it will be for us in my opinion. As I suffered with the minority in the Convention of 1861, I desire to raise my voice in favor of the minority of the Convention of 1864. In that Convention I was one of the minority, and we could not introduce a resolution, ordinance or motion but that some opposing member would move to lay it on the table. For this reason I voted to give the gentleman from the Fifth District a chance to express his opinions, and, if possible, to represent his constituents; but when the majority report comes up you will find me going to the filll extent of that report, because I believe it is the duty of every man, in order to bring about the end of this war. Mr. Wimo~ —-Mr. President: Slavery is a word which has become particularly obnoxious to a civilized and a christian community. It has taken nearly a century to erase it from our political vocabulary, but it will be erased; and future generations will look back with pride on those men who were first to raise their voices in favor of imnmediate emancipation. I hold, Mr. President, that the-gentlemen composing the Free State Convention of Louisiana will be among the first to immediately strike the shackles off the slaves. It is trule, that from 1774 to 1830 sieveral of our Northern brethren, in their halls of legislation, passed a prospective law for the emancipation of the negro. They declared that the offspring should be free from birth. But how did that declaration On Time — oWrite their nam es On Time as on a rock, and in immortalness, Stand on it as upon a pedestal." who were first to raise their voices in favor It has een asserted that these men-the It has been asserted thaft these men-the? Of imnmediate emancipation. I bold, Mr. i - of immediate e-ancepation. I hold, Mr. founders of our republic —were opposed to President, that thgentlemen composing slavery. Granted. But there is no record the Free State Convention of Louisiana that points out, in anv instance, where they will be among the first to immediately tried to wrest from a loyal people their tried to wrest from a' loval people their strike the shackles off the slaves. slave property without giving them corne It is true, that from 1774 to 1830 several pensa*o n of our Northern brethren, in their halls of The question atrall arises, what po, ~~~~The question nlatulrally arises, what p0legislation, passed a prospective law for sition will these 4,000,000 of freed slaves the emancipation of the negro. They de-.' occupy in the body politic? 9W'ill t'hey dared that the offspring should be free enjoy the b ody oliticenshil l t Inti\ enjoy the rights of citizenship, or remain from birth. But how did that declaration irresponsible 1irresponsible? or law operate? It forced the owner to I do not believe, Mr. Presideit th t th( sell the mother and her unborn child to African is the }QUAil of the white iiin. some slave speculator going South; and either socially or politically. I amn no itdthus, though it removed the evil from the mirer of the newfangled doctrine of misceNorthern States, it did not eradicate it. It genation, or itmalgamation with at ruce brought in its train separation of families, whom, on the authority of Mt. Du Chlaillii, and had no feature of humanity to com- an American of French descent-recently mend it to any philanthropist who was commissioned by the Academy of Philadtriopposed on principle to owning property phia, to visit the equatorial regions of in man. Western Africa, and who has given his History informs us that slavery was in- experience tothe world in a book of stirtroduced into this country in the year 1620, passing interest-expose human flesh fobr on account of the scarcity cf white labor. sale in their public markets, whose dom ii I 182 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 183 iciles are surrounded by piles of human bones and skulls, fr agments of t he ordinary m eals, who sell each other to foreign traders, an d mak e sheaths for their knives from h um an skin. We hav e al so the author ity of Drs. Barth and L ivings ton e to sho w that the wnative Africans have cl ung to baararism with a tenacity which makes me believe it to be inherent in their nature. Look at the West Indi a Islands; look at the free negro here! Has not the most bitter, th e most vindictive, the m ost cruel master that ever owned a slave, been always fo und in t he iree co lored population of Lou isiatna Consult the past and you will ther e find that the negro slaveowner ha s been the hardest taskmaster! Mr. President, I am in favor of saying to the negro py ou are friee;' but I would le ave him there. If, hereafter, he evinced a desire t o earn his ba bread by the sweat of hi s br ow, I w ould enc ourage such a spirit. But if, when free, he is to drift about societvy, w e, who claim to be intelligent, should, in justice to him, andi n justi ce theo o urselves, se e to it that he be co e a not a vagabond a nd an outcast, a burd e n upo n the community. I app rec iat e the efforts made by the commander of this department, Major General Banks, to solve the problem of the African's future by an order to put him on' the plantation to work. That is the proper place for him. But it is apparent to every gentle man w ithin th e hearing of my voice that this labor is compulsory; th at the negro is not a free agent; and, I think, if he were, he would prefer a life of indolence. with its concomitant rags, to one oaf honorable industry. The Legislature oft Louisiana will have to settle this point. And we simply do our duty in instructing them to to act. I am in favor of immediate emancipation; but I would not, in casting my vote therefor, despoil any loyal citizen of his just due, as guaranteed to him by laws which date at least two generations back. I believe in justice too strongly to think that, as a member of this Convention, I can abrogate the right of any loyal man, who conscientiously believes himself entitled to compensation for property which our act may place beyond his control. All who wish compensation, and who can prove a clear record, shall, as far as my vote goes, have their claim. I know that many men, abler than myself, members of this Convention, who have been hunted down by rebels, will oppose my views; but I give my views honestly and fearlessly, conscious that in doing so, I am doing my duty; and I ask all such to bear in mind that there are men-slaveholders if you will —who would sacrifice everything —aye, even life itself-to see our starry flag float again over the length and breadth of the land, and be borne in triumph over every sea. I have done. I will vote in favor of the rejection of the minority report, reserving to myself the right to propose an amendment to the first section of the report of the majority, hc w hich wil l fa vor compensation. Mr. SMITITN- wish to speak on this subjece-on this subject of compensation-for it is a bone of contention here. Whom do you wish to compensate? Those who have participated in this rebellion? Is it the loyal slaveholders9? Take a list of names and see if you can point out any such. No, sir! Instead of seeking to regulate the welfare and happiness of the country, they endeavored to elect a man for the purpose of rearing up a great slave oligarchy, to trample under foot the flag of freedom, the only one on the earth. Can these men com pensate the country for the evils they have inflicted upon it? Can they bring back the lives lost upon the battle fields? No, sir, they.cannot do it, but still they now claim compensation. I say, sir, and'repeat it, that there is no loyalty in the slave-holding community; there may be a few exceptions, but they are very few. The gentleman has said that the institution has descended from sire to son, froin generation to generation, until it has become a precious legacy to us, and that we must cherish and sustain it for that reason. He has told us that all ancient history acknowledges the right; gave us Abraham and the children of Israel, who had their slaves. So they did. but they had also the year of jubilee, and the seven years when the bondmen went free, besides which they DEBATES IN Tt HE ONVENTION FOR TfHE REVISION were commanded to provide for them and are only one class of losers by the rebellion? their offspring. If we undertake to pay for losses, let me Iastly, he has come to the classical and ask him are those to be paid who have sufpoetical-to Greece, the mother of the fine tfered from the destruction of their fences, the arts and the model of civilization. He tells scores of notes due, which can never be colus that Athens and Corinth had slaves, but lected, and the burning down of their houses? not a word about another-Sparta. We shall find if we undertake this compen Go into our streets and Sunday Schools, sation. that it involves us in a mass of injusand ask, if you can, in whose veins flows tice, an inextricable confusion that we shall the best blood of the chivalry. The gentle- never see the end of. For my part, I look man's sympathies extend to the free negro, upon the destruction of property as second but not to the other class, held in bondage only to the destruction of life, the most forin our midst. Is it not time that this should midable that the rebellion presents. I know be done away with? that the loyal slave owner has to suffer He tells 11s we cannot tear from these great inconvenience, but he is not alone in loyal citizens their property. Who was it hislosses, and I can see no justice in refustore from the government all our forts, and ing to compensate him for his losses, unless proclaimed that fifteen hundred millions of we at the same time provide for the payproperty should not be paid-debts con- ment of the losses of all loyal men by the tracted, too, in good faith? war, not oily of slaves but of houses burned He says we have to look in the face poor and property destroyed and of notes owed widows and orphans, whom we have de- by Southern men to Northern firms. spoiled of their property. Not a word has If we attempt this thing, the laboring he for those who periled everything for men who have sent us here will hold us the Union, who have been hunted down responsible for such an attempt to impose with dogs like beasts, their families being upon them taxes which are unnecessary and left to starve by these loyal slaveliolders-. unjust, and while they had no hand in originot a word of all this! i nating the original losses, which are invoked He has taken up those ruthless laws that as a reason for these objectionable and tore away brothers and sons, and armed them against their own kindred. Were thesel made by slaveholders or by the loyal class? If this is loyalty and they ask compensation, they have, it seems to me, a very singular way of showing their loyalty! (Applause.) Mr. THORPE-Mr. President: It is very evident that the gentlemen who are in favor of this proposition have not taken the last official report of property in this State, as pubished in 1860, as the basis of their esti- mates, when they propose compensation to slave owners. In the parish of Tensas there were 1262 white people to be taxed. In the Fifth District, New Orleans, which file gentleman represents, the white population is set down ait 894,404, and by a singu - lar coincidence, the property of the two i localities is precisely the same. Now I ask if they suppose for one moment that when we abolish slavery in this State that the hard-working men of New Orleans are going to be over-burdened with taxes for the pay- ment of compensation to slave owners, whot i unjust taxes. While I look around this Convention, I see many gentlemen here who were born and bred large slaveholders. Their willingness to sit here in this deliberative body, elected olu a platform of immediate emancipation, presents a most sublime spectacle. .I regard theln as showing a spirit of justice and fairness consistent with the spirit of the times that are upon us, and the work we are called upon to do; and, gentlemen, I am willing to go to them, to learn whether I am to vote on the question for or against compensation to slaveowners. AIr. ABELj,-As no other gentleman has seen proper, MAr. President, to address the 184 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. superior to the white man, and would bring him into subjection. I said no such thing. I did say that the white man was greatly the superior of the negro that he would not compete as a laborer with the free negroes, and that the preponderance of the latter would cause him to go North. I did not say, as he represented) that we had fought all nations. I said I did not believe any nation could come in contact with us suc cessfully; that England had tried it twice, and failed. I did not say either that we had ever fought the French. They have established a monarchy right under our nose and we have not fought them, and will not, in my opinion, until the old democracy wakes up, and then they will find that they have made a very warm nest for themselves. I feel rather complimented by the epitaph the gentleman proposes for me. I am willing to be called an old fogy in these days, when progress means theft and acquisition by all possible means; when the men of progress would make one clean sweep with one hand upon the government, and the other upon the rebels, gathering for their own benefit all within their reach, who, whfien they find a good fat Union man in their reach, will sweep him as clean as they will a rebel. These, gentlemen, are the progressive principles of to-day which you would have us adopt. But what shall I say to the school-boy arguments-of the gentleman? He spun it out yesterday, sir, just to the half hour, and when the mace came down, admonishing him thlt the time was up, I saw the end of the tale come out of his mouth. And when the Convention voted to let him go on he had nothing more to say till he could go and learn another lesson. And this morning he comes and repeats it. I admire the industry of the gentleman, and if you would give him till to-morrow morning, I have no doubt he would come with another lesson equally well conned. But, sir, he did'not touch the question as to the right to tear from the people of Louisiana their property. I do not see that the gentleman is more in favor of the freedom of the slaves than I am, or of the freedom -of'everybody. Why, sir, I would, if it was in1 my power, make will st a t e t hat not in the slightest degree, not in a single sentence, have I uttered that which could legitimately lead any one to such a conclusion; and I again state, that I believe it would have been better for the people of Lou isi ana, ha d they remained und er t he m ilitary government until there was no longer a necessity f or it, because any auxiliary government that we may make, will only create a swarm of new of flcers. New Orleans is the soul and center of the military department of the gulf, and a mili tary governor, aided by the advice of the commanding general, and the recommen dation of the loyal citizens, would have been able to appoint for us more efficient officers than it would have been possible for us to elect; and I am willing at any time to cast my vote for this Convention to adjourn sine die, and I think this is the best thing we can do, because we can only create a swarm of officers who will have very little control over the affairs of state. One of the gentlemen (Mr. Henderson) remarked the other day that it was well known that a de facto government, controlled by another military power, existed over nine-tenths of the territory of the State. I believe his estimate is rather large, but the very fact that a de facto government exists over a large portion of the territory of the State is an argument against any legislation in this body for the State. I believe it to be the duty of this Convention, under all the circumstances, not to proceed any further. But if we do go on legislating let us make the best laws we can. Since my remarks on Monday, several gentlemen who have stood upon this floor, instead of discussing the great questions that are before this Convention and before the country, have leveled their entire artillery at a single individual, and he one of the most humble in this community. Sir, the learned gentleman from the Second District took the greatest possible occasion to place me in the attitude of supporting the rebellion. But I did not utter a sentence nor a syllable that would warrant him in drawing such a conclusion. He undertook to make it appear that I said the negro was 24 185 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION get a short piece of rope without charge; but I trust the gentleman who has been shaking it over our heads does not think himself entitled to the same gratuity. I come here, Mr. President, for the purpose of representing fairly and boldly what was for the interest of the people, and I shall not be dissuaded from my purpose. There is one gentleman who claims a slight advantage over me in this discussion. but I shall not yield on that point, though he only claims advantage in lungs. I will contest it with him. He quoted from an old a bo lit ion tract, issued perhaps half a century ago. Well, sir, what would you expect from an abolitionist? They are covered with whitewash, while the inside is unfurnished. No one will say that I said the negro was equal to the white man. Will any gentleman say that I said so? No, sir. The gentleman who said it is an honest, upright man, but he is misled on this subject. He scorns my principles. I scorn, with equal hate, his; I scorn the idea of tearing from a nobleman, an honest man, or a thief even, if you please, one iota of his property; and I denounce our attempt to tear the property from the people of Louisiana, while the enemy all around us is in the enjoyment of his, of the same species, as a cowardly act unworthy this assembly. If I forage upon anybody it will be upon my enemies, and not upon my friends; and ye t yo u tell me you despise my principle s. I despise yours, and before this question is put to vote, Mr. President, I propose that this body form themselves into a Committee of the Whole and go out and see that the ragged rebels give up their slaves before we call upon loyal men to give up theirs. I would have all over fifty years of age excluded from that committee. That suits you, Mr. President, don't it? I am glad we agree for the first time, and will be excused from fighting the ragged rebels; we belong to modern antiquity, sir, and will be excused from the grand committee. I want my Northern-friend there to form part of this committee. I want the gentleman from the Second District to be made president of it, and when he informs' this body that all the everybody free, rich and happy. But in thinking of the slave, I do not forget the master and the rights of which it is proposed to divest him. The gentleman seems to labor in perpetual dread of a halter. Three times he informed the Convention that the halter would await us were it not for the presence of the military. Bu t what ha s t his to do with the great question before the Convention? We are to decide this question for the future, and yet it has been urged with all the fulminations that could be thundered forth, that we are ind ebt ed to t he milita ry a uthorities t o keep from our necks the halter, the fear of which the gentleman has constantly befor e his mind. H e dwelt upon this to pic so much that I fear that if he should see one of thos e gre at steamer loads of rope, such as used to come down t he Mississippi, h e would get frightened and run North. He thought that w e c ould not remain her e two hou r s if it were not for the m ilitary force t o keep our necks out o f the halter. Well, I will amend it to two hours and a qu arter. But, sir, if we could not stay here witho ut bein g su pp orted by the military authorities, what right, I ask, have we here at all? Who are w e represen ting if w e coul d n ot? I call upon the Convention to answer. We shall have t he qu e stion to answer some day. I agree wi th th e gentleman, that if the military were removed the halter might be shaken over our heads. I do not deny it. But, sir, what business has the halter in this Convention. I think that this is no place for gentlemen to drag it into. But perhaps the gentleman wants to know something of the history of the halter. I can enlighten him some on that point. I used to live in -Kentucky. There was a class of men that used to be called abolitionists-much like a certain class of progressive men we have now-a-days —that used to come over and steal a negro occasionally, and march him off. When they got over into Indiana, it frequently happened that some good, honest Indianian would get hold of them, and march back both abolitionist and slave. Well, sir, when they were thus marched back, the abolitionist would 186 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 187 rebels' slaves have been got out, I will sign They had acquired vested rights under the an ordinance of emancipation. My distin- laws of the land, and we were bound to guished friend Terry I should expect to go protect them in the enjoyment of those along, and before they started I should rights. This is as far as I have advocated want to give them some special instruc- slavery. I have said that slavery was the tions. I should instruct my friend Terry best evil that I ever saw, and that I never not to get too near those ragged rebels for in my life saw a moment when I approved fear that they should play the cannibal on it. Vast minds have grappled with the him, as he is so fat and sleek those hun- subject, but no one has ever yet devised a gry fellows might be tempted to eat him. plan to destroy it, and do justice to all the The gentleman from the Second District'parties interested in it. I would instruct not to go where there is PRESIDENT-The time is up. too much rope, lest the sight of it should Mr. MIONTAMAT-I move that Mr. Abell be awaken fears that would prevent him from allowed to proceed. farther prosecuting the business of the com- [The motion was carried.] minittee. Let them go and despoil the en- Mr. ABELL- I thank you, gentlemen. emy, and then it will be time enough to You have placed me under additional oblitalk about despoiling their friends. Thus gations by your courtesy. I will endeavor much for the instruction. It will be an not to abuse it. You will see, gentlemen, admirable arrangement for our Northern by the last clause of my report, that this friends. I do not know though but we Convention can provide for the final exshall have to excuse my friend Brott from tinction of slavery, and act justly to all acting on it, on account of the admirable concerned. If you adopt this report you plan which he has brought in providing for virtually continue this Convention for an payment. Three hundred dollars, it is true, indefinite period of time. If you adopt is rather a low estimate,' but it is better this the next Legislature can devise means than nothing. When my friend sells goods for the payment of the master. You can he wants pay for them, and when he takes do justice in this way, and if the Legislathe property from other men by legislation ture finds that they can do justice by adopthe is willing for them to be paid for it. No ing a scheme like that of my friend Brott, other course would be just to loyal men. let them adopt it. I think the amount he If we take their property from them-prop- fixes is low, but we cannot now niake proerty that they have acquired under the vision for compensation. The matter must guarantees of the laws of the land-we can be left to the Legislature. It is probable in justice do no less than pay them for it. that the next Legislature and a magnani The gentlemen tell you that I am in favor mous Congress will be able to make proof slavery. They are wrong. I am not in vision for adequate means from which the favor of it. I apologize for it just as the slave.owner can be paid a fair and reasonold Democratic party apologized for a able compensation. If we do this we can bank. We were always opposed to it from justify ourselves before our constituents. the time I was a boy, and that was not very You will find that you cannot stand before recently. But if you had overthrown the the people and justify yourselves\ if you banks, say three or four years ago, before tear away from them their property. You these times were upon us, the result would cannot justify yourselves before the world. have been a complete breaking up of' busi- If you do this you not only tear away the ness of all kinds. They were a necessary property from American citizens but from evil. Property vested ill them under the foreigners, who have acquired vested rights guarantee of law must be respected, and under our laws-from the Frenchman, the their destruction would have carried ruin Spaniard, the Italian and the German-and and destruction all over the country. your action will not end with the passage I advocate slavery upon the same princi- of the ordinance. pies that I advocated the rights of foreign- I propose, sir, to leave this Convention ers in this country five or ten years ago. open for forty years, if necessary. Better ~ DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION' that it should adjourn and reassemble than to adopt the majority report, and this is how it is to be done. Now, Mr. President, I beg of the gentlemen to look at that paragraph. If you adopt the minority report, the first Legislature has the power to, conjointly with the Congress of the United States, take the proper measures to emancipate the slaves and compensate slave owners, and thereby you reconcile the principles of justice with the great end proposed here without incurring the evils of immediate emancipation. That cannot be done with safety to the community and justice to the people now. But you tell us that slavery is already dead; a military order has decreed it, and it does not exist. You are right, so far as the present is concerned, but, sir, every lawyer knows that a title may be in abeyance, and that it may be revived when certain contingencies occur. That, sir, is the case with this property, where titles are in abeyance, and will be revived when the war shall be at an end. But, sir, under the constitution, in the amendment that I propose, the result could be reached, as it has been in Pennsylvania and the other Northern States. If the Legislature should deem it to be for the interest of the State to adopt such a mode, the matter will remain open to them. They may abolish it at any moment; then why not adopt the minority report? Why, sir, the war can hardly be ended in one year. It is almost impossible. During that time the military power would be here, and the institution would remain in statu quo. I will not impugn the motives of gentle is entitled to close the argument, and ftnless permitted to speak now, I should be precluded from participating in this debate, on account of my absence yesterday. I therefore thank the gentle man from the Fifth District of Orleans (Mr. Abell) for his courtesy, howeve r I ma y be opposed to his principles. I do not rise here s a s a politician or la wyer, but as an humble membe r o f this Convention, as a citizen of Louisiana, to express my convictions accor din g to the dietates of my conscience, to say wha t I deem ri ght and t rue, t o sustain, if possible, the majority report in favor of immnediate and unconditional emancipation. But why should not the gentleman be allowed to give us his full views upon this important subject? Let him raise his voice -let not the wrongful impression go abroad, that this is a party conventionlet the whole country know that the deliberations of this body are not, in the least, under the control or influence of military rule, that as the representatives of the loyal people of Louisiana we meet and act here as freemen, entirely independent of arbitrary power-let us show to the world that we are in favor of maintaining the freedom of speech, and the freedom of the' press —let our measures be criticised by our opponents. Are we afraid of the ultimate result of this discussion? No-a thousand times, no-for our principles are based upon eternal truth and justice. If so, let the gentleman advocate and apologize the " immaculate institution" until 'doomsday, if he desires, dares, or concludes to do so, for the special benefit of its sym pathizing friends and supporters. That doctrine belongs to the past. and is of no avail at present. It is the war cry of the privileged few against the oppressed many-it is the dying voice of slavery, ig norance and darkness, opposed to light, in struction and freedom-it is the last struggle between right and wrong, between treason and loyalty. Unfortunately, however, for the gentleman, he has failed not only to convince this Convention, but also the masses of the people of Louisiana. His extreme fear of doing wrong pre men who oppose my views. Mr. President, I am informed that Mr. Cazabat desires to make some remarks on this question. If the gentleman desires it, I will willingly give way to give him an opportunity to speak on it. Mr. HiLs-Mr. President, I move that Mr. Abell be permitted to give way for Mr. Cazabat to speak, and to resume his remarsks thereafter. [The motion was carried.] [A motion to adjourn was lost.] Mr. CAZABAT-Mr. President, under the rules adopted by this Convention, the gentleman who presented the minority report 188 AND MM'SNT OF TA4E CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. vents him from doing right, and in his attempt to prove too much he has utterly failed to prove anything, for his premises are without foundation and his conclusions erroneous. Talk about the vested and acquired rights of slaveholders! In the first place, sir, the population of this State is not, and never was entirely composed of that class. On the contrary, the majority of the people owned very few slaves. The humble and honest farmer, the poor mechanic, the hard-working classes, the bone and sinew of the land, have suffered by this cruel and unfortunate war, in loss and destruction of property, as much in proportion, if not more, than the wealthy planter; therefore, if you grant compensation to one class, the other will be also entitled to compensation, and thereby you will ruin forever the people and the State already impoverished and reduced to the most distressed condition produced by the bloody struggle of the last three years. Talk about the vested and pretended rights of slave owners! They have none, morally and legally speaking, and even, if conceded for argumentas sake, they have forfeited them when violating not only the constitution of Louisiana, but the national constitution, the supreme law of the land, by raising their hands and their voices against the most merciful government on the face of the earth. I go further. I coIntend that slavery is not recognized, either expressly or by implication, by the constitution. I challenge the gentleman who quotes so loudly about the constitutional' guarantees of slavery, to point to any clause or article of the constitution wherein the word slave or slavery can be found. I am not inclined, Mr. President, to find fault with, and descant against, slavery, because it is dead and gone. I admit that the planters of Louisiana, as a general rule, were humane, kind and intelligent masters; the slave himself, when well treated, seemed contented with his condition. Never was a country blessed with so much prosperity and real happiness as Louisiana, before the year 1861; more sugar and cotton were exported from the ci ty of New Orleand than from an othe r port in the world; but the insane spirit of rebellion has done its work, and both the guilty and the innocent are now to suffer th e con sequen ces. Slavery mus t disapp ea r now and forever, b ecaus e it is the original cause of all our national troubles. Its immediate and utter destruction, without condition, is a matter of necessity. Stich is the deep-seated and immovable conviction that fills the mind of every true and loyal citizen, whose patriotism is not kindled by prejudice, or warped by selfinterest. But, Mr. President, in my desire to do what is right, I am not prepared to do wrong. If there are men in Louisiana-and I know there are some, though few and far between-men who have been truly loyal in their unfaltering devotion to the government, in the name of justice and equity. gentlemen of the Convention, do not let such men lose one dollar or one cent, on account of having been deprived of their property. So help me God, if I can rely upon the honest intentions of my co-workers in this Convention, I believe there is no one here, willing, either by his voice or vote, to do injustice to his fellow-man. As soon as the act of immediatte and unconditional emancipation is passed, I hold in my hand a resolution which I intend to offer to this Convention, and which in my humble opinion is calculated to obtain justice for these loyal men-[applause]-for I rely. with confidence upqn the liberalityand magnanimity of the federal government. Bult, strange to say, Mr. President, the faithful, loyal citizens are almost all opposed to compensation: they claim no indemnity for the loss of their slaves. They regard this project of compensation as a ruse to prolong, if possible, the existence of the institution, and they know perfectly well that if adopted by the State, the rebels would be the principal ones to profit-by it. As far as the loyal men are concerned, they are willing and ready to offer up their losses in slave labor, as a cheerful sacrifice, to secure the restoration of peace and harmony in the national and State government. I 189 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION with the rights of one race and the interests of the other. I wish to call the gentleman's attention to the declaration, upon his dying bed, of Washington, the Father of his country, most entitled to our respect, and who in the most exquisite terms, instructed, as his last wish upon earth, that those who had been held as slaves' during his life time should be emancipated. Again, the great savant of the eighteenth century, admired by,both Europe and America as a statesman and philosopherthe immortal Franklin-was opposed to slavery; was the first man who presented to the Congress of the United States a petition on behalf of the African's rights. Douglas-the lamented Douglas —fought manfully as long as he could, at the head of the democratic party, for the maintenance and preservation of slavery, but against its extension; and I, as onie of his most humble but ardent and deveted followers and admirers, was willing to fight for it, so long as it was not opposed tb the existence of our government. But the public mind has been wonderfully modified by the great events which have taken place during the last three years,' and what I considered in 1860 as a matter of safety, I am in 1864 convinced is tending to the destruction of the nation. Let me ask you, Mr. President, and members of the Convention, what has produced and caused this bloody civil war? Slavery! Yes, slavery is the root of our present national woes. The preservation of the republic now demands its utter destruction. The progressive spirit of the age and christian civilization requires this cheerful sacrifice. Then, and then only, shall the American republic be truly the home of freedom, disenthralled, regenerated and perpetuated. Mr. President and members of the Convention, the federal army may meet with sad reverses, but the ultimate result of this conflict is written above. Look in the heavens and you can almost see blazing with dazzling lustre the words, Success to America! success to the cause of human freedom and human rights! " (Great appl ause.) A motion was made and carried to adjourn. will now ask the gentleman directly (Mr. Abell) if he goes so far as to claim compensation for disloyal men, and specially the guilty leaders who deluded the honest masses and attempted, either directly or indirectly, our national destruction? Mr. ABELL-No, never. Mr. CXAZBAT —Ie answers, no! I am glad to hear it. Sir, I do not wish to hurt any man's feelings. God knows that this question, invol i nng th e welfare of the country, requires kind and deliberate c onsider ation. It is only thus that we can arrive at such a conclusion as shall be benef icial, no t only to a ce rtai n cl ass of the community, not only to a c ertain interes ted portion, but to every class and interest; not only to the black race, but to the white; for permit me to remark, the emancipation of the African is nothing more nor less than that of the white. Yes, sir, it will prov e to be, in the course of time, the true liberation and emancipation of the poor white laboring classes of the South, heretofore " the hewers of wood and drawers of water "; for it cannot be denied that all over the South the political and ruling power was in the hands of the very few at the expense of the very many. The legislation of Louisiana, for the last sixty years, was made by slaveholders for the sole and exclusive benefit of slaveholders. It is to be hoped that the people will hereafter remember that " vigilance is the price of liberty." I have no fears that the negroes will ever imbrue their hands in the white man's blood. Give them education, make them useful and goodi, and both classes will cooperate in the great work of civilization and progress now before the American nation. [Applause.] As I have already stated, a suggestion of that character is, in my mind, an exhibition of a spirit of cowardice. Are you, sir, afraid lest the so greatly despised African, your proclaimed "i nferior," shall become your equal or superior? I do not believe there is a man within the sound of my voice who apprehends such result. If I am wrong, let that voice answer. Not one responds, sir! I am in favor of freedom, no matter what may be the system of slavery, for, in my opinion, it must always be incompatible 190 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 191 Mr. MONTAMAT-I amend to three thou FRIDAY, May 6, 1864. [At 12 o'clock M. the president called the Convention to order, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Strong, after which the roll was called and the following members an s wered to their names: Messrs. Abell, B alch, B ailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Decker, Dufresne u, Duk e, Dlpaty, Edw ard is, Enni, Fishad,Flagg, Fiood, Gaidry, Geier, Gold m an, Gorlinski, Gr ane berg, H art, Healy, Heard, Hen derson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, M aas, Mann, Mau rer Mayer, Millspaugh, Montamat, Normand, Orr, Pintado, Poynot, See chroeder, Schnurr, S ey m our, Shaw, Sm i th, Spellicy. Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Su lliva n, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wells, Wilson, and Mr. President-63. T her e being no quorum p resent, the sergeant-at-arms was directed to bring in absent members. Messrs. Austin, Bell, Bonzano, Davies. Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Harnan. Knobloch, Morris, Payne J., Paine J. T., Purcell J., Pursell S., and Stocker having taken their seats, the president announced a quorum. ' The secretary read the minutes of the previous day's proceedings, and they were adopted.] PRESIDENT-If there are no petitions or memorials, resolutions are in order. Mr. CA.MPBELL-Mr. President, I call up my resolution offered yesterday. PRESIDENT-It has not been reached; when we come to it you can call it up. If there are no new resolutions, reports of standing committees are in order. Mr. SHAw-The Committee on Ordinance reports " progress-" Mr. THORPE —Mr. President, as chairman of the Committee on Enrollment, I offer a resolution in order to be instructed by the Convention as to the number of copies it is desired to have Printed for the use of the Convention of the journals and debates: Resolved, That the printer of this Convention be instructed to print copies of the journal-, one-half of said number to be in the French language and one-half of said number to be in the English language. Mr. WILSON —I move to fill the blank with the number one thousand. sand. [The amendment was lost, and the mo tion of Mr. Wilson was adopted.] Mr. WILSON —Mr. President, on the appointment of Col. Thorpe upon the Committee on Assault of Members, the whole evidence was submitted to him, and through a misunderstanding of the motion of Mr. Henderson to postpone other business until the question of emancipation was disposed of, the committee will not be ready to report until this question is disposed of. [The secretary read:] NEW ORLEANS, May 6, 1864. To the president and members of the Conven tion for the Reviswon and Amendment of the Constitution of the State of Louisiana: GENTLEMEN.-I hereby resign my seat as a member of the Convention from the Seventh Representative District of Orleans. R. K. HOWELL. Mr. HENDERSON- I move that the resignation be accepted. Mr. WILSON-I move that it be accepted, and that the usual notice be given to the governor to order a new election to fill the vacancy. Mr. BELL-I move, as a substitute, that it be laid on the table. [The motion to table was lost, and the motion of Mr. Henderson carried, on a rising vote, 55 ayes to 22 noes..] Mr. CAMPBELL-I call up my resolution. [The secretary read:] Resolved, That no vote on emancipation be taken by this Convention until every member of this Convention be present. Mr. FOLEY —I move to lay the resolution on the table. Mr. HARNAN-That ought to be amended by putting some penalty, or we never will get them all here. [The resolution was tabled on a rising vote, ayes 45, noes 23.] Mr. BELL-Mr. President, I call up my resolution. Mr. HILLS-I rise, Mr. President, to a question of privilege in connection with the resignation of Judge Howell. He has resigned without assigning a reason; but I understand that he feels aggrieved at the action of this Convention in semding the sergeant-at-arms yesterday to bring him in. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. CAZABAT-I have no desire to make any further remarks on the question at the present time. Mr. ABE,L —Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention: The question under debate is the rejection of the minority report of the Committee on Emancipation. That report proposes to leave this whole matter as though the Convention was sitting foir one or forty years. The matter can be taken up at any time, discussed and acted upon as it was in the State of Pennsylvania, whenever the Congress of the United States and this State may by joint action be able to emancipate the slaves and do justice to the owners. You may adopt the minority report, and it leaves the question open so that your friends and those owning slave property may be paid for their property; it leaves the matter open so that the honest loyal man may receive a fair and just compensation for his slaves. If you should hereafter be a member of the State Legislature, the same question, according to the minority report, is open, and whenever the Congress of the United States shall say it will pay three hundred dollars for each and every slave belonging to the loyal men, and the State says i t will pay one hundred dollars-which will make four hundred dollars —and if that be a fair and just amount, the Le gislature has not o nly the power, Pbut it becomes its duty to do so, a nd thent the owner is honestly paid. Are you in favor of thes pop that fair, honest proposition that keeps the question open? If we were now to say that we would pay three hundred, or even'one hundred dollars for each slave, are we prepared to meet such anrappropriation? No, sir. The State is already pressed down. I have stated, and state again, that the circumstances of war have placed it out of the power of the people of the State of Louisiana to compensate the slavebolders. They can scarcely make a living now. I beg to say to the gentleman of "The Era," that while that paper, the great medium of the government here, may have made its $200,000, his poor neighbors cannot support themselves. By freeing the negroes without compensation at this time, you take from these people the means of a living. Every ratio —------— al man knows fill well The circumstances were these: Mr. Abell moved, or made a suggestion, that Judge Howell was absent and ought to be in his seat. I m oved to amend, and that th te sergeant-at-arms be dispatched to bring in all absent members in the city. I t hink it highly im portant that every member should be found in his place to vote on the emanc ip ation qu estion, and it was with this view that I made t he mo tion. Per sonally, I have the hig hes t rega rd for Judg e Howell; and sincer ely regret i t if any action of mine has had anything to do with bringing about his resignation. Mr. ABELL —Mr. President, I desire to make some a pology myself. The s eat of Judge Howell was the only one I had noticed vacant, and it had been vacant for some days. I made te motion r es pecting Judge Howell because he was the only member whose absence I had observed. I should have made the same motion respecting any other member, and if any other gentleman attempts to shirk the. responsibility of recording his vote on this question I shall make a similar motion respecting him; and if I catch any man shearing wool from the sheep's back, as the phrase goes, so that it may drop off on either side, I shall not hesitate to expose him. I want everything to appear on the postea when it goes before the people. Mr. TERRY-I move that the apologies of the gentlemen be reduced to writing and sent to Judge Howell. Mr. FoLEY-I move that the acceptance of the resignation be reconsidered. [The motion was tabled.] PRESIDENT-The next business in order is the unfinished debate. The question is on the rejection of the minority report of the Committee on Emancipation. Mr.' HEARD —Mr. President, the amendment to that report offered by Mr. Brott yesterday, does not that come up this morning? PRESIDENXT —It was not called up in its order, and consequently must be regarded as withdrawn. Mr. HILL-I rise for information. Yesterday Mr. Abell gave way for Mr. Cazabat. Mr. A~s~-I desire to know before proceeding whether Mr. Caabat has the floor.. 192 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. that it is out of our power to do this at this time. The gentleman from the Second Dis trict said I had issued the second and third edition of my speech. Sir, Blackstone has gone through twenty-seven editions, but is a good work yet. I have other works that have passed through several editions, but because of the truth they contain they are read by all. Falsehood ought not to have but one edition, and I think the remarks of some of the gentlemen on this floor ought never to undergo a second edition. How are you to compensate these masters? Some of them are French, Spanish, German, Irish, but all your neighbors; how are you going to meet their just demands? You cannot do it; you are perfectly prostrate yourselves, and if you make your own living you may be very thankful; but suppose the Congress of the United States should step in next year and offer to pay three hundred dollars for each slave, as it has already been intimated, you would see the resources of this State once more invigorated and in a prosperous condition. All wars must add to the distresses of men, and cause the desolation of many a fair field. Many loyal families have been prostrated in this part of our country, and yet these people must now lose what lttle prospect they have ahead, and be left in a state of utter destitution. From a resolution offered by the gentleman from the Third District, we learn that a large amount of money has been appropriated. He says that Mr.-Graham and Mr. Durant have large sums of money which were appropriated for the purpose of making this a free State. -In that resolution he asks that these large sums of money shall go into the treasuary of the State of Louisiana. Where is that free State government? I know of no free State government. I ask the mover, if he expects to buy up a free State government? There is no free state here. What is to be done with it? Is it to purchase this Convention? How much will the gentleman himself take? It appears there are large sums of money for the purpose of erecting a free State. I believe the gentleman from the Third is loyal to the core. I believe he can and has beat any man in singing the -Bonnie 25 Blu e Fla g." I am told th a t he had even the whole structure of the bat tle of Ma nassas he d t e ha i here. I do not ay he had it here, for I did not see it; but I have understood he made a most beau tiful repr esentation of the scene. Does the g ent le man w ish some of this money? Let him go to Messrs. Durant and Graham, for I am sure the Con vention will not contaminate its hands with it. The gentleman from the Second District says we would not be permitted to stay here two hours but for the presence of the armies of the United States. Does he mean that it would take but two hours to get rope enough for us all? If not, what does he mean? Does he mean we stand here rep resenting people who do not want us? I believe it, if that is what is meant. I never believed that we represented the people of Louisiana. I have told you so from the start. We are representing a faction. I look at over 50,000 voters represented by 5000 or 7000. I do not understand it. The gentleman has not touched on the real question-on the great question of spolia tion or no spoliation. Fifty-two summers have rolled over my head, but never have I witnessed oQne in stance of that cruelty of which we hear so much. Unlike my opponents, I am ready to show the very page, verse and section of the law, and can show ten cases where hus bands have imbrued their hands in thqir wives' blood, where they can show one of cruelty to a slave. Slaves must of course be corrected, though I have alwgs opposed punishment by the lash. Mr. President, this is the last attempt to argue this question before this Convention, and I feel that it is too great a one for a brain like mine. It affects hundreds of thousands of men, and I would say to you, gentlemen, let this be settled when the State resumes its sovereignty. This spoliation is carried on in reference to millions of property, recognized by the noble of the world, by our constitution and laws, and considered in the laws of Congress and State Legislatures. At any rate, I would like to have the matter rest for the present. In the last clause of my report, this Convention is authorized to extend all its power to the Legislature, and then whenever Mr. Terry's 193 DEBAES IN TTHE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION i the Second will speak for him in all future time, because I must acknowledge that I have been somewhat severe in personal ret marks referring to him. f I will now proceed with regard to the great cause of the war. The negro, sir, has been the cause of the g war. Now, I have no doubts of the hon esty of those who have peculiar ideas in regard to slavery, though I have often heard it said that those who believed in its direct abolition were dishonest. t Predilections, teachings, etc., exercise a t great- influence upon a man's mind. I am honest in my opinions, and the only differ ence between the gentleman (Mr. Hills) and myself is, as to the rights that grow out of th~ possession of this property, considering the manner of its acquirement. Since my youth, and that was not yesterday, since m y mind received its earliest impressions to the present, I have been opposed to slavery in the abstract, in principle; but, sir, much slave property has been acquired in this State, and it is the proposition of the power and right of this Convention to tear it away, though honestly acquired, that star tles me. I would with the greatest pleasure vote for emancipation were any fair pro vision made for compensation. I admit, though, that I do not believe in the as sumption by the State of all the debt. Make this a free State in the manner pro posed, and you make it an asylum for all outcasts. The people of the State will be driven out and the safety of the State en dangered. The great stress laid upon thedslave status is not true, and I would read from the True Delta one single remark, to show that others suffer as well as the negroes. It is in re gard to the sewing woman: "A brisk woman can furnish four pairs of drawers, containing 1800 stitches each, by constant labor, from 7 A. M. to 9 P. M., and for each pair she re ceives 4 cents. or 16 cents per day." Here are fourteen hours' hard labor for a com pensation of sixteen cents, and yet not a tear have I seen yet in the eyes of any gen tleman. I am told that our abolition friends, many of them, cheat them out of half of that. I don't believe they cheat them out of' hal. I put it at about one-third. Here moneys are expended, a mode is provided in which justice may be done, upon fitting deliberation. Oh! the beauty of liberty! Without it for a foundation, a government is like chaff blown before the wind. But you must be just before you are generous. It is a beautifil thing to bestow liberality, but without charity, all that you do is a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal. Mr. President, what is the proposition of our abolition friends, who array themselves not against my principles, but against m e, pers onally? Well, sir, for th e last twenty-five years the abolition party has b een arrayed against this country, while the people have slept, and while it has been repeatedly said in Congress on every occasion, th at the people of the slave States were enti tled to their slave property as much as to any othe r. Th e sovereign people have said that the negroes should remain where they are, until by the will of God they should be liberated. [The president's hammer came down.] PRESIDEENT-The time is up. Mr. IliLL —I rise to a question of order. I think Mr. Abell is entitled to the floor, as, according to the vote of yesterday, he is to have sufficient time in which to conclude his remarks. PRESIDE,,Tr-That was not the disposition of yesterday. The gentleman gave notice that he would close the debate, but before filling out his time he gave way to Mr. Cazabat.- Tit was not counted against him, but now he has spoken for half an hour under the rules. Mr. HmLs —I appeal from the decision of the chair. [The yeas and nays were calie-d when the House negatived the president's decision; yeas 29, nays 47.] Mr. ABEIL-Mr. Presi e nt, I never saw in any part of the country one worthy of the names of a man and a Mason, but that I loved him. I shall always remember with the kindest feelings the gentleman from the Second District, and for the indulgence granted to me by you, Mr. President, and the Convention, I most sincerely thank you. The magnanimity of the gentleman from 194 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. is the negro, fat, sleek and well fed, but all the tears are to be poure4 forth for them, and it is said that slavery must be abolished. Why, gentlemen, if I was going to cry, I would begin to get ready now. I was going on to say, in regard to the horrors of slavery pictured here, I have never seen any of them, although I have been raised among slaves. The reason is apparent, for who is going to abuse a man who is valuatble tohim? I have never seen a negro wh i pped in cruelty, and o nly two or three for the purpose of correction, in fifty-two years. I am speaking of what I have seen. When I hear gentlemen reading long tracts, I ask, where is their authority? Do you hear, Mr. President? You seldom hear what I say; but you must this about the poor sewing woman. My distinguished friend from the Second District, will sixteen cents get you a breakfast, or half of it, or even a quarter? Oh, no; but perhaps a whole family is supported upon'that amount. My tears shall be for the white, and not for are continually harping on loyalty, would, if the English, French, Spanish or Confederate flag were raised here to-day, be the first to harp in its favor. Mr. TuoRPz-I call the gentleman to order. I think this is all wrong. Mr. ABEIT-Since this is so hard to takebut must be taken-I will give it to you in small doses. I will give the gentleman his share. He ought not to be passed here. I shall not do it. I have passed him because I have found him one of the most honest, candid men on this floor. He told you on the second or third day, and was the only gentleman who told you, that we were assembled here for a certain purpose, and that purpose ought to be accomplished quickly. I would say to him, and all who believe as he does, as did Paul when speaking on the subject of slavery-in his bold and powerful language he said, "Servants, obey your masters." I came here for no other purpose than to forward the interests of the people of Louisiana..I came here the colored race. as their servant, and intend to obey them as Who are the loyal citizens to be paid? I long as I stand upon this floor. I advise suppose that, according to my friend from the gentleman to pursue the same course the Second District, there is not one here. and obey his master. Some might say, the gentleman who sung the If, Mr. President, we have a great, noble Bonnie Blue Flag so beautifully is the and grand government, can it not overlook only loyal one among us, thattis loyal. the sins of those who have erred? How Others might say, that no one is loyal who can it know but that its subjects have been has not stolen three negroes, at least; but forced to err? One thing is certain; when I do not know that anybody here goes as a people have rebelled-and governments far as that. Now, I come to Mr. Cazabat, all over the world have had rebellionsbecause he pressed the question. and I feel and that people have been dismantled of bound, when a question is asked, to throw their power, those governments' have overit back, and ask him who is a loyal citizen? looked their sins, as do fathers those of their Is he one who has ever borne arms against children when they have been misled, and the Yankees? come back penitent and ready to submit to Mr. C.ZABAT-I leave that for the Federal them. The government casts the shadow of government to decide. its wings over them, and from that moment Mr. ABELL-The constitution of the United all goes on as before. The people of LouStates makes full provision for those who isiana return to their allegiance-I do not are not loyal, in article III, section 3, and care who they are, or what you say about in article IV, section 2, clause 2, and in them, the government, in its greatness and amendments IV and VI. majesty, should act towards them the father's You see I come here with the documents part. I say that every man who comes back in my hand to sustain my exact position. under the flag of the United States stands By these provisions the status of every man to-day upon the same footing as before, and, can be determined according to the laws of like a returned prodigal, is entitled to his the land. right. Therefore, let their property stand Some of these very nice men here, who as before, and in time they will aid us. 195 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. HILLS-I now move a suspension of the rules to act ok my resolution. [The motion was carried by a rising vote, ayes 61, nays 2.] Mr. HENDERSON-I shall demand a strict adherence to rule XLI, which requires a two-thirds vote to suspend the rules. Mr. HENDERSON-A short time since another gentleman introduced a motion here that upon any important question every member shall be required to vote, and if not present we were to suspend the proceedings until the absent member was sent for. Now we have another similar absurd motion that we shall wait from day to day until every member votes on the question of emancipation. If this is done, a large portion of the time'will be consumed in waiting for absent members, and is tantamount to asking the Convention to adjourn sine die. Mr. HILIYs-The gentleman is fighting a man of straw. My proposition is not to suspend the business of this Conve ntion unt il ever y member is sen t for, but that .every vote s hall be t aken on the question with the ayes and noes, and if members are absent th ey shall b e sent fo r, and when they come shall bdemade to record their votes. [The resolution was then adopted by a rising vote, ayes 66, noes 1.] [The motion to reject the minority report on emancipation then came up.] Mr. HENDERSON,-Does it include the amendment of Mr. Brott? PRESIDENT-Mr. Brott's amendment was not seconded, nor called up in time, and must be considered as withdrawn. [The roll was then called on the motion to reject the minority report on emancipation, with the following result: YEAS —Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailoy, Barrett. Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bonzano, Brott, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gaidry, Geier, Gorlinski, Goldman, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Henderson, Heard, Hills, Hire, Howes. Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Millspaugh, Morris, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T.* Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J:, Putsell S., Sc'hroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Most of them have subscribed to the ironclad oath, and I believe, sir, that such men are as good as I, or any other man, and that the country should extend its arms to receive and welcome them back. The government should never divest them of their property, for forfeitures have never taken place in such cases. That is my theory; and no man can have his property taken -from him unless by a conviction before a tribunal of his country. I have demonst ra ted upon this floor, by the constitution of the Uni ted States,b the the decisions of the Suprem e Court, and the proclama tion of Pr esiden t Lincoln, that this parish is excepted; and I say now, once for alli, that slavery exists here as much as i t ev er did. T he subjec t is almost beyond the mind of m an, and I mu st t ea r my self from it after reading the minority report. [Mr. Abell read the m ino rity r eport.] M r. Preside nt, you have now heard every word of my minority report. It opens up the way for the slave to be free in due time, for the master to be compensated for his property, and for this Convention to do honor to itself. I speak not for myself, but for the people and honor of the State of Louisiana. I speak not for the abolitionists, but all others. The people do not want the master despoiled of his property-they want the integrity of the nation and the honor of the State pre served. I again thank you, gentlemen of this Convention, and you, Mr. President, for y ou r forbearance. Mr. HrLLS —I ask to suspend the rules in order to regulate the vote on this question of emancipation. I offer the following: Resolved, That every vote on the subject of emancipation shall be-taken by yeas and nays, and members not present shall be sent for by the sergeant-at-arms and required to record their votes. Mr. FOLEY-I move the rules be suspended to act on that resolution. PRESIDENT —Mr. Secretary, call the roll; I do not think there is a quorum present. [The roll was called and only seventyfive members answered to their names. The sergeant-at-arms brought in a member.] 196 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I want it to be well understood that I don't grudge liberty to any human being; also that I came here without any distinct pledge to vote for immediate, unconditional emancipation. Before the election I have explained to a good many of the voters of Lafourche, fairly and squarely, my views on this subject, namely: that I was in favor of the immediate emancipation of the negroes, if thereby peace could be restored to the country; that the loyal owner should receive a fair compensation for his loss; that the negro, as much as possible, should be forced to return to plantation work; that by judicious laws his moral and social condition should be improved; that by laying a reasonable per centage on the cash wages of the negroes, in a few years a sufficient sum could be raised to indemnifv the owners; that by continuing this system, in case experience would show that the two races, both free, cannot live together, the State would soon be able to colonize the negroes somewhere else. Mr. STAUFFER-Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. The question is not open to debate. The gentleman is making a speech.: Mr. SEYMOUR —I hope the gentleman will be allowed to proceed. He represents a parish owning ten thousand slaves, and has had no other opportunity to be heard on this question. PRESIDENT-The gentleman has a right to explain his reasons for casting his vote. This is an'exceptional case, and the rule does not apply. * Mr. GRUNEBERe-The vote of the 28th of March last, in the parish of Lafourche, demonstrates already that the foregoing propositions were, by the people there. considered as judicious, and I say it with pride, that on that day I did not lose a single vote cast in my parish. Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson-71. NAys-,-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Decker. Dufresne, Duke, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters-19. The motion to reject the minority report was carried. A motion to adjourn was then made and carried.] SATURDAY, Ma y 7, 1864. [At 12 o'clock the Convention was called to order, and the ro ll called, when the following gentlemen answered to their names, viz: Messrs Abell, Ariail, Austi, Balceh, Bailey, Barrett, Batum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook J. K., C ook T., Crozat, Davies; Decker, Dufresne, Duane, Dnpaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley,. Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Hen derson, Hills, Hire, Howes, K a vanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri,.Millspaugh, Murphy E., Ne well, N orma nd, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Sc hroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wenck. Wells, Wilson-79. The minutes of the previous meeting were read by the secretary.] Mr. ABELL- — M r. President, before the minutes are adopted I wish to amend them by recording nunc pro tune the votes on the rejection of my minority report of the members absent then, but present now. [The president stated t he questi on and directed the secretary to call the names of members absent when the vote was taken.] Mr. CAMPBELL-I desire to know by what rule members are required to vote on a question after the vote has already been announced, unless the subject is under reconsideration. Mr. GRUNEBERC-I desire to explain my vote. Being unwell yesterday, I was forced to be absent when the vote was taken on Mr. Abell's report. Permit me, Mr. President, to make a few-remarks to explain the manner in which I shall vote. Now, Mr. President, a my days andgo I had a chance to see some of my constituents of Lafourche, and I have found'that there is now in my parish an aversion to the immediate, unconditional emancipation of the negroes. This is the result partly of the daily increasing insolence and laziness of the negroes themselves, and also of the fear 1971 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION that the orders of the commanding general, which provide for the education of the colored before the white ones, might be followed up by laws from this assembly which would destroy the birth-right of the white man. I mean, Mr. President, to represent my constituents on this floor honestly and fearlessly, at every hazard, with so much more assurance, as my change of ideas in the last six weeks has kept pace with theirs. Threats have been insinuated to me, Mr. President, that in case this assembly-nay, that even if the United States government did not grant the full measure of their supposed rights to the blacks, that then " our colored brethren" would rise in their majesty and power, and conquer from the white race, by force, what might be withheld from them by constitutional enactments. In that case, Mr. President, even the philanthropic editor of the Era will not find grace before them; and we, every one of us, unless we concede to the native-born negro the full privilege to fill, one of these days, the chair of Governor Hahn or of President Lincoln, shall be in dlnger of having the halter placed round our neck by the "outraged sons of Africa." In the sacred name of religion, so-called infidels have been burned at the stake, and I fear, Mr. President, that the few on this floor who entertain different opinions from the majority will be ostracised for the sake of their opinions. For my own self, I shall protest against such a proceeding, because j know in my own heart and conscience that the sole object of my coming here was the desire to secure the welfare of the now enfranchised portion of Louisiana.- My motto is not fiat justitia et pereat mundus, but rather pereat the loyal Southern man. No, sir, I shall endeavor to do justice to the loyal men, both North and South. My choice in this matter would be that the State of Louisiana should go back into the Union on the propositions of President Lincoln himself, of 1862-that is, with emancipation in 1900. PRESIDENT —The gentlemen is out of or der. He has no right to debate the question. The debate was closed yesterday. He may give his reasons for his vote. C But I shall decide anything further out of order. Mr. GRU,NEBERG-I shall vote no. [The result of the vote was as follows: YEAs-Messrs. Baum, Brott, Collin. Dupaty, Gorlinski, Harnan, Murphy E., Paine J. T.-8 NAYs-Messrs. Balch, Bofil, Campbell, Dufresne, Gruneberg, Mendiverri-6. The minutes of the previous day, corrected by adding the votes just taken to the vote as previously recorded, were adopted.] Mr. HENDERSON —Mr. President, I rise to call the attention of the chair, for one moment to the fact, that there was some misapprehension of fact s on the part of Judge Howell, that caused him to tender his resignation, and as I moved that the resignation be received, I now move a reconsideration, in o rder to move that he be requested to withdraw it. PRESIDENT-Are we to unders tan d that Judge Howe ll desires to withdraw his resignation. Mr. HJENDERSO.N-I certainly had such an intimation, or I should not have made the motion. Mr. SULLIVWN-A motion to reconsider is out of order. It has been acted on once and lost. PRESIDEN'T —It cannot be made again the same day. Mr. HE-DERSON-I move that the Convention rescind its action accepting the resignation of Judge Howell, and move a slspension of the rules in order to take up the ,question at once. Mr. DAVIES-I move to lay that motion, on the table. Mr. HILS-I move to amend by reconsidering the vote on Mr. Howell's resigr-ation. [Mr. Henderson's motion to suspend the rules was put. The yeas and nays were called with the following result: AYES-Messrs. Ariail, Bailey, Barrett, Baiim, Bell, Bonzano, Bromley,Brott, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Duane. Duke, Dupaty, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Maas, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Orr, Poynot, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, 198 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUJISIANA. r other than citizens of the United States, or those having made legal declaration of be coming citizens. ART. -. The General Assembly shall provide by law for the establishment of a poor-house in each parish of the State, for the care of the destitute within their re spective limits. and to be conducted as shall be provided by law. Mr. HARNAN-I move that it be made the order of the day for some day. PRESIDENT-It lies over. Mr. BROTT-Mr. President, I have a reso lution to offer: Resolved, That this Convention do ad journ on the 25th inst., at 2 o'clock P. m. PRESIDENT-The resolution must lie over under the rules. Mr. HIRE-I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That after next Monday this Convention hold an evening session, to commence at 6 o'clock P. M., to afford an opportunity for all members to address the Convention, without prolonging our session to an unnecessary length. PRESIDENT —Reports of committees are in order. Mr. GORLINSKI-As chairman of the Com mittee on Internal Improvement, I would state that the committee will be ready to re port on )[onday. Mr. SHAw-The Committee on Ordinance reports " progress." Mr. WILSON-The Special Committee on Assault of Members reports' progress.?' Mr. CAMPBELL-I move that that commit tee be discharged. PRESIDENT —The motion lies over. The order of the day, the majority report of the Commi tt ee o n Emancipation', is nextt in order. Mr. ABELI-Mr. President. this is Satur day, and the work before us is one of con siderable magnitude. I move that we now adjourn, in order to take up the question on Monday. with the beginning of the week. [The motion was carried.] Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry and Wilson-49. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Bofill, Buck ley, Campbell, Davies, Decker, Dufresne, Gruneberg, He aly, Harnan, Hart, Knobloch, M ann, Maurer, Montamat, Murphy M. W., No rmand, O'Conner. Payne J., Paine J. T. Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., S ulliva n and Waters-26. The mot ion t o suspend was los t for want of a two-third vote.] Mr. BROIEY —I have a resolution to offer: ~ Whereas, The citizens of this State, residing in the country parishes, are in a continual state of alarm, bordering on a pa nic, which threatens an interruption of all labor, by a simultaneous abandonment of all unpr otect ed pari shes in t he count ry, in consequence of raids from the gu errillas: Therefore be it Resolved, That a committe of five be appointed to confer with the governor and the adjut ant general of this Stat e to dev ise ways and means t o organ iz e the militia, whereby weae may be properly proected in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Mr. Pt RSELL (of Je ffer son )-Mr. President, I have an amendment to offer to t he report of th e Commi ttee on Ge ner al Provisions, viz: ART. -. All civil offic ers for the State at larg e shall b e voters of and resid e within the State, and all district or parish officers shall be voters of and reside within their respective parish or district, and shall keep their offices at such p laces therein as may be required by law. ART. —. The seat of government shall be at the city of N ew O rleans. T he G en eral Assembly shall have power to dispose of the. o present capitol property in Baton Rou ge and provide, by purchase or otherwise, s uitable lands and building s fo r a State capitol in New- Orleans. ART. -. Taxation shall be equal and unif orm throughout the State. A ll property shall be taxed in pr oportion to its value, to be ascertained as directed by law. The General Assembly shall have power to exempt from taxation property actually used for church, school or charitable purposes. The General Assembly shall levy an income tax upon all persons pursuing any profession, occupation, trade or calling, and all such persons shall obtain a license, as provided by law. All tax in income shall be pro rata on the amount of income or business done. Art. —. No profession, occupation, business or calling, requiring a license from any authority within this State, shall be carried on, exercised or followed by any. i 199 MOND,KY, May 9, 1864. [Convention met pursuant toadjournment and the secretary called the roll, the following gentlemen responding: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Bell, Bonzano, Buckle Burke, Cook J. K., Crozat, Dufresne, uke, Edwardi3, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. HARNAN —He is on a big drunk. I move that an assistant secretary be appointed, and the matter of voting laid over till to-morrow. Mr. STAUFFER-If we are to proceed to the election of an assistant secretary, I should like to have the office vacated first. Mr. HILLS-I call for a division of the question. [The first division of the question was put and lost, and the questiog to defer the calling of the name s c arried.] PRESIDENT-Resolutions are in order. Mr. STUMPF-I offer the foll o wing: Whereas, The object of this war on the part of the United States against the socalled Confederate States is, first, to maintain the Union, to enforce the laws and uphold the constitution of th ese United Sta tes, and all acts of Congr ess made in pursuance thereto; and in doing this we must not be unmindful of those truly loyal citizens whose inte rest and whose only wealth consisted in that specie s of property which the war has destroyed, or rendered useless as property; be it, therefore, Resolved, by this SConvention, That all truly loyal citizens of Louisiana, who have taken the President's amnesty oath of Dec. 8. 1863, up to this date, be paid by the United States government a reasonable indemnity "r each and every slave assessed in their name as property for the year 186A. Mr. PURCELL — offer the following preamble and resolution: Whereas, In the fitting up of Liberty Hall for the use of this Convention, provision was made for the accommodation of an audience, and a portion of the same was specially appropriated for ladies, but which fact was not publicly made known; therefore, be it Resolved, That the ladies be and are hereby invited to attend the sessions of this Convention. Mr. STOCKER —I move to suspend the rules for its adoption. [The motion was carried, yeas 71, noes 0.] Mr. MII,LSPAUGH-I move to lay the resolution on the table. [The motion was lost and the resolution adopted.] Mr. S. PURSEL-I offer the following: Whereas. The notes issued by the city of New Orleans being the only currency now in circulation in this State fully entitled to the confidence of the people (the currency of the United States excepted); and whereas, designing and bad men, traitors to their Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Healy, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Howes, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Millspaugh, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Terrry, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-49 members present. There being no quorum, the sergeant-atarms was directed to bring in absent members.] Mr. MO.NT.MAT-I move we adjourn, as there is a primary election, in which many of the members are engaged. Mr. HiILLS-I object. Since the gentleman has stated his reasons, the motion is debatable. We have nothing to do with primary elections-are not sent here as politicians to attend elections of any kind. We are here to serve the people, and I think it would be disgraceful to record upon the minutes an adjournment for any such reason. [The motion to adjourn was lost on a a rising vote-ayes 32, nays 36.] [After-some delay, the roll was called to ascertain if a quorum was present, when the following members having taken their seats, viz: Messrs. Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Bofill, Brott, Campbell, Collin, Cook T., Davies, Dupaty, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hire, Maurer, Mendiverri Montamat, Murphy E., Payne J., Purcell J., Smith, Stauffer, Taliaferro and Thomas-28 members, The president announced that a quorum was present. The minutes of the previous day's pro ceedings were read and adopted.] Mr. HILL —I now move the secretary be instructed to call the names of allthe absentees who have not voted on the question of emancipation. SECRETARY-In consequence of the absence of the assistant secretary, I shall have to call the roll, as the previous vote is in his possession. Mr. STA.UFFER — I would like to know what right the assistant secretary has to carry away any documents of the Convention. PRE.SIlDENT —-I think the Convention ought to know why the assistant secretary is absent. 200 e AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Convention. The report of the committee stated the facts of the assault clearly enough, yet concluded without any expression of opinion, and a matter that was insignificant as a record of a violation of law and good citizenship, became, nevertheless, of momentous importance, if the Convention treated the principle involved, viz: That a breach of privilege was unworthy of an especial notice, and thereby, possibly, establishing a precedent which might for all time be deeply injurious to the best interests of the law-abiding citizens of this State, and especially to the local populations of New Orleans. The power of the- Convention to protect itself in the persons of its members is undoubted. This is not a power derived from constitutions or precedents, " it is an original power," and to destroy it would be an absurdity, for it would at once strike down all order and all law; for if one man can assault a member of a deliberative body with impunity, then an overwhelming force of conspiratorscould with equal propriety .drive us from our seats and break up the Convention. It is fortunate for the history of eivilization that a breach of privilege is of rare occurrence. Many generations have passed away since a thing of the kind has occurred in England. In France, since the establishment of its deliberative bodies, at the close of the reign of Louis XVI, in the highest excitement of the conventions which were assemble d i n the " reign of terror," there never occurred a breach of privilege. In the British Parliament and in our national Congress and State legislatures, contempts growing out of witnesses, refitsing to answer. or attempts to bribe members, are not uncommon. All the deliberative bodies referred to have asserted the right to protect themselves by punishing the contumacious witness and the dishonest citizen; but the punishment of the breach of privilege, viz: the assault of a member of a de-. liberative body for his official acts is rare indeed, because in all Christian countries, when the people have elected their representatives to deliberate for the good of the State or nation, a profound respect is enteraine d by the people for their own'sacred rights, for the time being, centered and personated in their chosen representatives. In the year 1832 the nation was profoundly agitated by a breach of privilege committed upon a member of Congress, the facts of which regarding the assault are stated in the following note: country and false to every obligation due, to that g enerous magnanim ity that permits them t o remain under the prote c tion of a go od government, are using every means to depreciate the said notes of t he c ity of New Orleans; therefore, be it Resolved, That any institution or person refusing to receive the said city issue, either on deposit or in payment, is unworthy the c o nfidence of th e people, and deserves the att ention of t he authorities competent to rectify such matters. Resolved, That this Con vention urgently recommen d and desire that all heads of depa rtment s, ei ther civil or military, having power in the premises, do suppress any and all banks that may be in operation by suifferance, and failing in their duty in accordance with th e exig ency of the times. iMr. STOCK.R —As I consider that important, I move that on e hun d red copies be printed and laid o n the desks of the members. [The m otion wa s ca rried.] PRESIDENT-Reports of commit tees are in order. Mr. THORPE-Mr. President, as chairman of the Committee on Ass aul t of M emb ers. I b eg, l eave to submit the following report: REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON ASSAULT. F oll owing the election af members of t his C onvention, but be fore they had officially assu med their duties, the chief active conservator of the pe ac e of this city, Under most aggravated circumstances, e specially as far as the propr ie ties of p lace wer e concern ed, assaulted a member elect of this Convention. A carefull examination of the facts, howev er, make it evident that the assault had not the slightest necessary connection with the rights, privileges o r d ig n ities of this body. The effect, however, of this gross breach of the peace by an officer solemnly sworn to conserve the p eace; a nd the time and place selected for this gross violation of good order, naturally, in these troublous times, create more than ordinary excitement; and when the report went abroad that an assault had been made upon anothe r member of the Conve ntion, and under circumstances wh ic h appeared to justify the belief that a gross violation of privilege had been committed, many members of the Convention desired that some official notice should be taken of the matter, and the honorable member from the Second District, parish of Orleans. called the attention of the Convention to the subject, and a committee was promptly appointed to inquire into the history of the assault —thus the circumstances came officially before the 26 '201 4 " To'the Ilon. A. Stevenson, kpeaker of the Ilouse of Representatives: 11 Sir-I was waylaid in the street near to my boardinghouse last night about 8 o'clock, attacked and knocked down by DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION whose person had been assailed in the public streets for words uttered in debate was to be thrown off to a distance, till reports of committees were proposed and debated, they might as well leave Mr. Stansberry to bring his complaint before a justice of the peace, and thus subject the privilege of that House, privileges of the people of the United States, to the determination and award of the court which sat in the neighboring building. Mr. Conneter, of Pennsylvania, in the face of the power of the House to punish hierarchy privileges, said that if it were otherwise the members of the House had better remain within their own State, where patriotism might speak without the fear of the bravo. They would retire from the ten miles square, and abandon it to the contest of bullies and blackguards. The debate was concluded by Mr. Everett of Massachusetts, who ended his remarks by saying what was done by an individual might be done by armed mobs. Suppose, then, that an armed mob, instead of insulting an individual, should waylay twen ty or thirty of the members, would the insulted members ever turn to the courts of the district to seek redress for assault and battfy. The case need but be stated to insure ts consideration. Why was the place of assembly removed from Philadelphia! Was it because an insult had been offered to one of their body! No personal violence was offered; no one was kept at home; no encroachme nt s upon the privileges and interruption of the balance t o o k place; but an insult was offered. They were told at the time that the State would protect them; that its courts were open to them, and that it would extend the shield of its whole authority over them, but Congress said no; we will go whle we can establish a juris diction, where we can protect ourselves with out needing the aid of constables or sheriffs. It was for this reason that the government -fixed its seat on the Potomac. where it now stands, and if ever the time should come when an assault committed on a member for words spoken in debate is to be turned on the courts, the constitution would be no longer worth living under; they hMd better at once break up and go home or return to a state of nature. Mr. Wickliffe called for the yeas and nays, and the motion of Mr. Vance was carried by 145 yeas against 25 nays. Not a member of Congress from Louisiana voted against the resolution, and for representatives at the time were the Hon. E. D. White, of Lafotirche, and that eminent patriot, Gen. Philemon Thomas, of Baton Rouige. In accordance with the preceedings noted and the subsequent action, Samuel Houston was brought to the bar of the House, was allowed counsel, and all the forms of a a bludgeon, and severely bruised and wounded by Samuel Houston, late of Tennessee, for words spoken in my place in the House of Representatives, by reason of which I am confined to my bed and unable to discharge my duties in the House, and attend to the interest of my constituents. I communicate this information to you, and request that you will lay it before the House. Very respectfully, yours, " WILLIAM STANSBERRY, "Me mber of the H. R. from Ohio. "April 14th, 1832.1'1 After the reading o f the communication, Mr. Vance, of Ohio, offered the following resolution: "Resolved, That the speaker do issue his warrant, directed to the sergeant-at-arms attending to the House, commanding him to take in custody, wherever to be found, the body of Samuel Houston, and the same in his custody to keep, subject further to the order and decision of the House." His resolution called forth an exciting debate, and the able men then in Congress expressed their views with the ability and freedom that characterized our national representatives of that era. Mr. Jenifer, of Maryland, observed to those who moved to lay the subject on the table, that he did not suppose it were possible that a single voice could have'been raised in that House or nation against the exercise of a power which must be dictated by common sense. The constitution imperatively called upon them as representatives of the people, to protect themselves in the exercise of their duty. He then read the article of the constitution, conferring the power, and maintained it to be the duty of the House to protect itself from assassins. Mr. Jenifer concluded by demanding the yeas and nays upon the resolution. Mr. Speight, of North Carolina, moved to amend the resolution by striking out all after the word resolved and inserting the following: "That a select committee be appointed to whom shall be referred the communication of the Hon. W. Stansberry, a member of the House of the State of Ohio, in relation to an assault committed on him by Samuel Houston, with power to take such steps as will insure a thorough investigation of the transaction." Mr. Coulter, of Pennsylvania, said that if the House were to adopt the course proposed by Mr. Speight, they would apply the torch and the torpedo to the sanitary power of the House vested in it by the constitution. The House must necessarily possess in itself (without the interference of a committee) the power of protecting its own deliberations. He said if a member 202 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. legal trial were gone through with, and the prisoner found guilty of the charges brought against him. There then arose in Congress a warm debate as to the punishment that should be inflicted; it was finally accepted that the House had no power to imprison beyond its sitting, and that it was in their power to choose between imprisonment and a reprimand from the speaker. The resolution was finally adopted, that Samuel Houston be brought to the bar of the House on Monday next, at 12 o'clock, that he be reprimanded by the speaker for the contempt and violations of the privileges of the House, of which he has been guilty, and that he be then discharged from the custody of the sergeant-at-arms. In the fulfilling of the important trust imposed upon the speaker, among other things, in reprimanding the prisoner, he said: "If, in fulfilling the order of the House, if I were called upon as its presiding officer to reprimand an individual uneducated or uninformed, it might be expected that I should endeavor, as far as I was able, to impress upon him the importance and propriety of sedulously guarding from violation the rights and privileges secured to the members of the House by our valuable constitution, but when addressing a citizen of your character and intelligence as one who has himself been honored by the people with a seat in this House, it cannot be necessary that I should add to the duty enjoined upon me by dwelling upon the character and consequences of the offence of which you have aWen charged and found guilty."' Whatever has a tendency to impair the freedom of debate in this Housea freedom no less sacred than the authority of the constitution itself, or to detract from the independence of the representatives of the people in the rightful discharge of these high privileges, you are no doubt sensible, must in the same proportion mar and degrade, not only the Legislature itself, but the character of our free institutions. There was nothing physically atrocious in the attack made upon the honorable member of this Convention, but the sentiment intended by the offender was evidently that the assaulted party might be disgraced, and through him bring contempt upon this body. Under any circumstances, the Convention would be indifferent to its honor if a case of this kind, however superficially unimportant, were passed over without some notice. New Orleans, the metropolitan city of the South, will show, by examination of her judicial and criminal records, that the large mass of her citizens have always been law-abiding; yet her public character for peace and order has been, more or less. always misrepresented abroad by acts of a certain class in the community who seem to have presumed, in their especial cases, upon their power to over-ride justice and escape punishment-an evil in society, and especially in a city like New Orleans, made up of a hetereogenous population -tho ugh originally s ma ll in itself, like a revolving ball of Know, naturally enlarges by its on ward progress; and the liberty of a few to take in their own hands the law of redress ing their real or imaginary wrongs, from what would be scarcely noticeable at first, in time becomes a fearful evil and a reign of terror, results under the influence of which the liberty of speech and liberty of political action become nullities. There has been a time in New Orleans when peaceful citizens were publicly struck down at the polls and assaulted in the highways, by a combination of men whose influence and acts, however baneful and reprehensible, generally escaped punishment; and these things, so disgraceful to modern civilization, were falsely glossed over in the crystaliza tion of a narrow-minded and false political principle, and made especially offensive to that class of citizens who, from the oppressed countries of Europe, have fled here for an asylum of peace and a quiet home. This honorable body has no power ol give vitality to good laws left inoperative by the supineness of its ministers, nor is it in the power of this Convention to produce a direct reform in the evils of which all good men and well-wishers of the prospect of this city have complained'; nor is it just and proper that we should not use all charity with regard to the character of the House. knowing full well that not only in times of -civil war, but in the years that precede such a sad catastrophe, the moral sense of the people suffer, and bad men take advantage of the disintegration that constantly goes on. In conclusion. we would recommend, that if the members of this Convention are satisfied with the evidence. as it now stands before them, that a breach of privilege has been committed, that the accdsed be arrested and brought within the bar of this House and receive a reprimand therefor from the president of this Convention, and then be discharged, to the effect that they may place ~pon the records of this Convention our detestation of the principle of individuals taking the law of personal- redress, for supI posed of real wrongs, into their own hands. (Signed) T. B. THORPE, J. H. WIsSON, ALFRED SHAW. 203 I Mr. TiiOMAS-1 Move it be received, and made the order of the day for Wednesday. [A motion to lay it on the table was lo4t.] Mr. DUANIF,-L move the riiles be suspended to adopt the"report. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION it is for any other reason, I will vote against it. I came here to perform my duty faithfully, to the best of my ability, and do what I could for the benefit of my constituents, and I shall stand by this Convention even if I am the last man. I am not afraid of the circumstances that surround us; I am not afraid to stand anywhere and everywhere and raise my voice in defence of my country. Therefore I say, when a man resigns his seat in this Convention, he should' state his reasons. If it is his desire to come back into the Convention, I want to m ake a proviso that he shall apologize to this Convention when he comes in; otherwise I sha ll v ote against receiving him ba ck a gain. Mr. ABELL- I believe the o ste nsi ble cause of hi s resigning is t hat he was called in person to give s ome a ccount why he remained out four or five days. That was on my motion; but e ve ry m emb er in this House knows that I have no animosity against him, bec ause, first an d la st, I sustain ed him for the pre sident of this body. I state th is to show th at I was not actuated by any kind of ill feeling s to wards hi m; I have the highest esteem for him, as well as for Mr. Roselius; but on both occasions I have stood firm for the acceptance of their resignations. I occasionally play with children, but when it comes to men, I remain firm with them. We are elected here to represent the people, and I contend gentlemen have no right to be absent from this House, and if absent myself an unreasonable time, I should thank a gentleman to take occasion to call me by name, if he sees proper, and have me brought into this House to show why I was neglecting the business of the people. I shall oppose any rescinding of the orders of this House in regard to Judge Howell - or any other gentleman on this floor, whatever may be his pretensions or name. If he sees proper to disregard the duty he owes to his constituents and the Convention, let him go, in the name of peace. [The yeas and nays were called for on the motion of Mr. Henderson, and the roll was called with the following result: YEAs-Messrs. Ariail, Bailey Barrett Bonzano, Brett, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, DUane, D a~ [Lost, 37 only voting in the affirmative. T he mo tion of Mr. Thoma as was carried.] PR.ESIDE NT-Unfinished business is next in order. o Mr. HEibDERSOyn-I call f or the resolution rescin ding th e ac tion of this Con vention in relation to the resignationof Judge Howell. [The resolution was read.] Mr. HENDEMRSON-I believe that each and ev ery gentleman who has been elected by his constituents and has the qualifications required by law should remain a member of this body until we have completed our busin ess. I do not s pe ak particularly with referenc e t o JIudge Ho well, but because when the qu es tion came up firs t I acted in reference to Mr. Roselius. I admire the scholarship and ex perience of that gentleman, but whe n h e could not take the prescribed oath and voluntarily withdrew, I could do no differently than move that his resignatio n be accepted. I know that every on e df us feel h ig h re spect for the gentleman in question and wi ll be glad if he withdraws his resignation, an d he is permitted to a ct as before; an d I ho pe that this body w ill show the proper kindness o f disposition and c harit y of feeling and permit the resignation to b e withdrawn. Therefidre. I move now that the action of this b ody in r elation to the acceptance of Judge Howell's resignation be rescinded. Mr. STAUFFER —I ag re e with the gentleman in regard to th e respect this body has for Judge Howell, but I wish to k now the reason for which he s en t in his r esignation. Certainly he considered the subject before sending it in, and the circumstances that brought us here are such that every patriotic man in the State of Louisiana and throughout the United States would be 'willing to come forward and accept a seat here, and, after having done so, to hold it. I cannot conceive why any member of this Convention, after having remained here for twenty-five days, should withdraw from it when we have come to the most important business. I voted for his resignation and to suspend the rules and adopt the resolution. If he is willing to come forward and east his vote on this question, I will vote to rescind the resolution passed here; but if I 204 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF DOUISIANA. convicted, are hereby forever abolished and prohibited throughout the State. Sec. 2. The Legislature shall make no law recognizing the right of property in man. Sec. 3. The code of laws known as the Black Code, and legislation on the subject of slavery, are hereby declared annulled and abolished. Sec. 4. No penal laws shall be made against persons of African descent, different from those enacted against white persons. Sec. 5. The Legislature shall, at its first session under this constitution, enact laws providing for the indenture of persons of African descent as apprentices to citizens of the State, on the same terms and conditions as those prescribed, or which may heeafter be prescribed, for the apprenticing' white persons. Adopted in Convention this -'day of , in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-four, and of the Independence of the United States eightyeight. fresne, Duke, Ennis, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Normand, Ong, Payne J., Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf. Stiner, Taliaferro, Thorpe, Waters, Wells, Wilson-45. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Collin, Crozat, Dupaty, Edwards, Flagg, Flood, Geier, Gruiineberg, Healy, Hart, Maurer, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Mayer, Newell, O'Conner, Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S.. Schroeder, Schnurr Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry-29. The resolution was carried.] Mr. MO.N'TAMAT-I move to adjourn. Mr. HILLS-I call for the yeas and nays. [The call was not sustained and a rising vo te taken; yeas 34, nays 38. The motion was lost. It was stated there was no quorum present, and th e ca lling of the roll demanded. The roll was called and seventy-six members res p onded.] Mr. MO.NTAMAT-I move to adjourn. Mr. HILS-I demand the yeas and nays on the motion. [The demand was sustained and the rol l c al led, with the following result: YnAs —Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Bailey, Bofill, Brott, Buc kley, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Dufres ne, Duke, Dupaty, Flagg, Fuller, Gastinel ei, Geier, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Howes, Knobloch,. Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Purcell J., Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Sullivan, Waters-36. NAYs-iMessrs. Barrett, Bell, Bonzano, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Flood, Fosdick, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, Hills, Hire, Mann, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, On-, Payne J., Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Wells, Wilson —39. M. F. BONZANO, Chairman, A. CAZABAT, H. C. EDWARDS, EDMUND GOLDMAN, E. MURPHY, ,T. B. SCEIROEDER, W. T. STOCKER, R. K. HOWELL. Mr. WILSON-I amend the first section by adding the words "and that loyal owners be compensated." Mr. CAZABAT-I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr' HILLs-I call for the reading of the section as amended. [The section was re ad. The yeas and nays were demand ed on Mr. Cazabat's motion and the roll called, with' the following result: YEAS-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Bonzano, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cutle ae, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fis, Flagg l d, Flo od y, Fol ey, Fosdick, Go ld man, Gorlinski, Healy Harnan, Hills, Hireo e aa, Howes, Maas, Mann, Mi llspaugh, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Payne J., Pintado, Pursell S., Schroederi;.Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Wells-45. NAYs —Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bell, Bofill, Brott, Buckley, Cook T., Crozat, Dufresne Duke, Fuller, Gruneberg, HIart, Heard, Henderson, Knobloch, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Seymour, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Suillivan, Waters, Wilson-30. Cries of'>no quorum."'. The motion was lost. The majority report of the Committee on Emancipation, being the order of the dany, was read by the secretary. &N ORDINANCE TO ABOLISH SLAVERY AND IN V6LUNTARY SERVITUDE. We, the people of the State of Louisiana in Convention assembled, do hereby declare and ordain as follows: Section 1. Slavery and involuntary servituide, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly 205 0 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION [The secretary read-'" The Legislature shall make no law recognizing the right of property in man."] Mr. ABEItEL-Is this the great question that is to be crowded through this Convention in Mr. MONTAIT-I move we adjourn. [The yeas and nays were called. YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Crozat, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Fuller, Heard, Henderson, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Schnurr, Seymour, Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters-29. NAYS —Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Bell, Bonzano, Brott, Cazabat, Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Hire, Howes, Mann, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Payne J., Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro. Terry, Thorpe, Wells and Wilson-43. The motion was lost. The section was then adopted by a viva voce vote.] Mr. MONTAMAT -There is no quorum voting. I protest against the action of the House. PRESIDENT —The gentleman is out of order. [Section second was read.] Mr. HILLs-I move its adoption. Mr. ABEL-Mr. President, is this question going to be thus thrust down the throats of the people? I know it can be thrust down the throats of the Convention without any deliberation. But when you attempt to thrust it down the throats of the people, it is a different affair. And I tell you that if you persist in doing b usiness in this manner, if you refuse a call of t he House when it is called for-when from repeated votes it is evident that there is not a quorum present-I can only say the people, the honest people, of the State of Louisiana will not recognize your action. It cannot be expected that they will recognize it. What, sir, is this second proposition? [A voice-" A very good one.,"] Yes, a very good one, I grant, but it may involve:us in a world oftrouble; but, sir, Mr. Montamat has twice demanded a call of the House, and shall we proceed in this hasty and unceremonious manner, to use the power of this Convention to cram this thing down the throats of the people of Louisiana when we have no quorum. Let uls hear what it is we are forcing upon them this unceremonious manner, and crammed down the throats of the people of one o f th e greatest and noblest of communitie s tha t ha s ever graced the union of States? I have fought this question in an o th er form. I have fought it to the best of my power and abilities. I have no personal property interest in the question to fight for. I own very little property-none that would be affected by it —and I only fight it on account of the injustice tha t wo uld inevit ably result from it. It is only the other day th at my friend from the Second District (Mr. Hill s) accused me, very unjustly as I believe you ar are all satisfied, with having aided the rebellion. Why, sir, whe n yo u a do pt this report you aid t h e rebel s mor e than you would by marc hin g tenMtho usa nd armed mend to their support. You sow seeds of bitterness, ruin and desolatio n that will never be rooted up. You say to the rebels we are sure to tear away from loyal men hundreds of millions ot property. Mr. CAZABAT —Mwr. President, I move that members be prohibited from going out. We have no quorum. Mr. ABEIL-I move a call of the House. PRESIDENT —The gentleman must proceed with his argument according to parliamentary rules. No gentleman has a right to demand a call of the House repeatedly for thie purpose of impeding business. The doorkeeper will close the door and permit no member to pass out. [The roll was called and a quorum answered to their names, after the sergeantat-arms had brought in a number of absentees.] Mr. STAUFFrl:R —Mr. President. I move the previous question. [The question was put.] Mr. CAMPBELR,-I do not understand this. I cannot vote. I cannot vote unless I understand on what I am voting. PRESIDEN'I —If the gentleman had been in his seat he would have known. The question is upon the adoption of the second qttnUublt~ 1~ uut vUII ttol JWxoiJ.l U bHut ~tUtJllt . section of the majority report of the Com I 206 I read. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 207 Mr. ABELL —Mr. President, I have a right to explain my vote. PRESIDENT - Yes, but not to make an argument. Mr. STAUFFER-Under the rules, the gettleman has no right to explain his vote. I came here to vote on this question, and I intend to do it, if we stay here till doomsday. Mr. HILLS —I move a suspension of the rules, in order to allow the gentleman to explain his vote. PRESIDENT-DO gentlemen wish to disgrace themselves, this Convention and the people that sent them here, by such proceedings. Cannot you keep order? I think that there is no intention on the part of the majority to oppress the minority; but I do think there is evidently an intention on the part of the minority to prevent the majority from doing business. You must abide by the rules of your own making; it is the only way to do business in this the highest legislative body known in our land. I want every officer of this Convention to obey the president when he gives an order. I want the officer to have nerve enough and physical force enough to enforce the rules which govern this Convention, and when a member shows himself in such a condition of mind that he is willing not only to disgrace himself before the people, but to throw contempt upon this Convention, I want the officer of this Convention whose duty it is to obey the president to do his duty, which has not been done this morning. Now let us go on. The gentleman has a right to explain his vote, but if he proceeds to make an argument I shall bring down the speaker's hammer, and I hope that it will be obeyed. Mr. ABEI,L-I desire to say that I am not prepared to act on this question until the amendment of Mr. Campbell has been acted on. As he has offered an amendment, It is due to the citizens of Louisiana, whom we are here to represent, it is due to justice, to common naked justice, that this amendm en t should go before the Convention, before I, as a representative of the people, am called o n to cast my vote. I Mr. HIENDEsSO,~ —I have not heard the mittee on Emancipation. The previous question has been moved, which cuts off all debate. Mr. CAMPBELL-I would ask if this is on its second or third reading. PRESIDENT-The second. Mr. CAMPBELL-All right. I have a proviso which I wish to move as an amendment to the first. PRE.SIDENT-You are too late, it is already adopted. Mr. CAMPBELL-That is what I protest against, in the name of my constituents. I will read it. PRESnrENT-You are out of order. You will sit down. Mr. HiLLs —-Mr. President, as we have already adopted a resolution which requires every vote on the question of emancipation to be taken by yeas and nays, the first section not having been so voted on, is not adopted. I move that we take the vote over. [Mr. Campbell proceeded to read his pro viso.] Mr. HENDERSON'-I call the gentleman to order. PRESIDE.,NT- The sergeant-at-arms will take the gentleman in custody and keep him in custody. We must have order. [Mr. Campbell continued to read his proviso-many members rising to their feet, crying "order," " put him out," etc., causing a scene of confusion, amid which many remarks were lost by the reporters. The sergeant-at-arms, with one of his assistants, approached Mr. Campbell and made a feeble attempt to pacify him, but he shook them off without paying them the slightest attention, until he had read his proviso to the end, and then he resumed his seat, and they gave up the attempt to arrest him. The secretary proceeded to call the roll.] Mr. BUCKLEY-Are we to be pressed in this way? Mr. SULLIvAN-Do I understand this to be the fi rst or sec ond reading? Mr. ST.AUFFER-I move that Mr. Abell be required to vote on this question, or that he be expelled from this Convention. Mr. MOsTAMAT-Amendments are in order. Mr. SULLIVAN —-It seems there is a party here oppressing us. -rl DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION gentleman vote. Every member must vote on this question. Mr. ABELL-I vote no. [Mr. Campbell, when his name was called, declined to answer.] Mr. HENDEPSON-I give notice that I shall prefer charges against the gentleman for refusing to attend to the business before the Convention. He is evidently paying no attention; while this vote is being taken, he is reading a newspaper. Mr. CAMPBELL-Mr. President, I do not know what I am voting for. I offered a proviso to this, and you have not put the proviso. PRESIDENT-Take your seat. [Mr. Collin's name was called by the secretary.]' Mr. COLLIN-I should like to know what I am voting for. Mr. Campbell has offered an amendment. I should like to vote on the amendment. PRESIDENT-You will sit down and vote. [The secretary proceeded to the end of the roll without further interruption.] t Mr. HENDERSoN-Before taking up the next section, it is but right that the gentlemen who have refused to vote on this should be called upon to vote, or state their reasons for refusing. Mr. COLLIN-I vote " no.," Mr. CAMPBELL-Upon section 1st, as read here, I vote "no." Mr. MONTAMAT-I move we adjourn. Mr. HmLS-I call for the ayes and noes. [The call was sustained and the result was as follows: YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Bailey, Bofill, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Flagg, fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Purcell J., Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Slllivan and Waters-36. NAYs-Messrs. Barrett, Bell, Bonzano,; Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Flood, Fosdick, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, Hills, Hire, Mann, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Wells and Wilson-39. Mr. AsEL —On this question I have the. floor. Do I understand that after I have opened the debate on a question — Mr. HILLS-I understood that the previous question was moved on the second section. PRESIDENr —It was. The secretary will call the roll. Mr. HEARD —Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. PRESIDENT-In rising to a point of order when the ayes and noes are being called the gentleman is out of order. Mr. ABELL-It must go down. Let us take it. [The secretary procded to call the roll.] Mr. MONTAMAT-I desire to explain my vote. I am in favor of the section, but as there is an att empt to oppress the minority, I vote no. Mr. FOLEY-I move to adjourn. Mr. TERRY-I call the ayes and noes. [The call was sustained and the motion follows: YEAws-Messrs. Ariaill Austin,'Bailey, Barrett, Bell, Bonzano, Brott, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, ltarnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Maas. Mann, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe,~ Thomas, Wells, Wilson-62. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Dufresne, Duke, Gastinel, Heard, Knobloch, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Seymour. Sullivan, Waters — 16. And the Convention adjourned.] T WENTY-SEVENTH DAY. TUESDAY, May 10, 1864. [At 12 o'clock M., the president called the Convention to order, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by Rev. Mr. Strong. Upon calling the roll the following gentlemen answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beaiivais. Bell. Bennie. Bo)fill, Boizano, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Crozat, Decker, Duane, Dufresne. Duke, Edwards, Ennis,Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, 208 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 109 He is a very independent man, and will vote yes or no. Mr. BALCi —I vote no. Mr. ORR-I desire to make a few remarks. PRESIDENT-YOU can explain your vote, -but you have no right to make an argument. Mr. MANN-I desire to call the attention of the president to rule XVII. Mr. ORR-If I am not permitted to say now what I desire to say, I shall take another occasion to say it. I vote yes. Mr. CAMPBELL-Mr. President, I should like to see the rule that requires a man to vote to-day on a question that was disposed of yesterday. Mr. FOLEY-I hope Mr. Wenck will be sent for. PRESIDENT-I understand that h e i s sick. Mr. THOMAS-I left him in court an hour Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Hills, Hire, Kava nagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Men diverri, Millspaugh, Murphy M. W., Newell Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder, Stauffer, Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Taliaferro. Terry, Thomas, Wells and Wilson-64. There being no quorum, the sergeant-at arms was instructed to bring in absent members. The following gentlemen having entered the hall, viz: Messrs. Bailey, Beauvais, Buckley, Cook T., Davies, Dupaty, Foley, Henderson, Morris, Murphy E., Montamat, Maurer, Purcell J:, Stocker and Thorpe, constituting a quorum, The minutes of the previous day's proceedings were read and adopted. The names of members who had not previously voted on the motion to reject Mr. Abell'sminority report of the Committee on Emancipation was then called up, with the following result: YEAS-Mr. Ong. NAYs'-Mr. Schnurr.] Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I trust that the motion mate by Mr. Hills the other day will be enforced. I notice Mr. Wenck has not yet voted on that question. He was here yesterday, and when the subject was brought up left very suddenly. I hope he will be brought in. Mr. DUmbE-I would mention that Mr. Wenck is very sick. I met him on the way home. Mr. ABELL-He is not too sick to be in the streets. Mr. BUCKLEY-I saw him in his office this morning. He did not appear to be sick. Mr. HILLS-I trust that the sergeant-atarms will be instructed to bring in all members in the city to vote on the questions discussed yesterday. Mr. WELLS —I move that the doors be closed for one hour. Mr. ABEL —I move that the members not in the city be excused from voting. PRESIDENT-Mr. Secretary call the names of those who have not voted. The names were called. Mr. ABEL —Mr. President) I desire the secretary to call the name of Mr. B3alch. 27 ago. Mr. ABELL-I have seen him perambu lating the streets this morning, looking as well as anybody. Mr. HILLS-I hope the sergeant-at-arms will either bring him or a surgeon's certifi cate that he is not able to come. Mr. HEARD-Mr. President, I wish to ex plain the absence of my colleague, Mr. Kugler. He received a dispatch from Ba ton Rouge Saturday, and important business called him home for a short time. When he returns he will record his vote. Mr. ABELL-Mr. Gruneberg is a very good kind of man, and has not, I believe, voted oln the first two sections of the majority re port. I move that he be brought in. [Mr.'Wenck was brought in, and the result of the vote was as follows: YEAS-Messrs. Baum, Beauvais. Geier, Kavanag h, Morris, O rr an d Poynot. NAYs-Mr. Balch.] Mr. GORLINSKI —Mr. President, the Committee on Internal Improvement is ready to report.' Mr. CAMPBELL —I have a minority report. Mr. HILLS —Mr. President, I move that these reports be received, printed and taken up in their order. [The motion was carried.] Mr. STOCKER —Mr. President, the Committee on Absent Members, on account of the difficulty of getting information from the t 4 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION fore the House the other day for information as to how many copies of the journals and debates should be printed. There was an error in the resolution, which I desire to have corrected. The word "debates" was omitted. I desire to amend the resolution by inserting the words "and debates" after the word "journal," and move that the rules be suspended in order to take up the question now. [The motion was put: ayes, 44. Less than two-thirds the members present having voted for suspension of the rules, the motion was lost. Messrs. Wenck and Decker having been brought in by the sergeant-at-arms, were called upon to vote on the question of the previous day. Mr. Wenck voted "aye" on the motion to reject Mr. Abell's minority report, and on the motions to adopt the first two articles of the majority report. Mr. Decker, on the same questions, voted " no."] Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I wish to give notice that I shall offer amendments to several articles of the majority report as they come up. I shall offer an amendment to the third section, to the fourth section, to the first clause of the fifth section, and to the second clause of the fifth section. [Secretary read Art. 3.] Mr. GOLDMAN —I move its adoption. Mr. ABELIr-I move to amend by adding the words: "Provided, always, that the Legislature shall never pass any act authorizing free negroes to vote, or to immigrate into this State, under any pretence whatever.' - Mr. MONTAMAT —I second that. Mr. GORLINSKI-I move to amend by adding the word " forever'; to the end of the section. Mr. Borz.No —I move to lay the amendment on t]he table. Mr. FOLEY —I call for a division of the amendment. Mr. HENDERSO.N-I moved to lay the amendment on the table. A motion for a division of the question having been made, I withdraw my motion. I wish to vote for the first clause of the amendment, bult not for the second. country, are not prepared to report, and ask further time. Mr. STUmF —Mar. President, I call up anmy resolution offered yesterday. [Secretary read the resolution.] Mr. HAE-MI move that it be referred to the Committeean Emancipation. Mr. CAZABE T-I offer this resolution as a substitute: Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed by the president o f this Convention, to draw appropria te r esolutions expressing and r ecommending to the president and C o ngress of the United States the justic e and equity of making such appropriations as may be d eemed proper and right for a fair compensation to loyal citizens of Louisiana for the loss of their pr operty, upon such terms, conditions and proof as may be required. Mr. ABELL-I move to amend by adding th e w ords, " this shall be done before any slave is freed." [The chair put the question and declared it carried.] Mr. ABELL —Mr. President, was that carried w ith my amendment? PR.ESIDENT-NO, sir. You r amendment was not seconded. Mr. ABELL-I think it was seconded by at least six. PRESIDENT-Gentlemen must speak so as to be heard by the chair. Mr. BEi —I -call up my resolution, tendering the thanks of this body to Capt. Hoyt for fitting up this hall. [Secretary read.] Mfr. STOCKER-I should like to inquire when that was offered. SECRETARY-Last Thursday. PRESIDENT-It is withdrawn, then. It should have been called up the next day-. Mr. BELL-DO I understand that when a member is prevented from calling up a resolution the next day after it is offered, that it cannot be called up subsequently. PRESIDENT-Yes; such is the rule adopted by the Convention. Gentlemen must take care of their own offspring. Mr. PL-MSELL, Of Jefferson-I call up my resolution. Mr. STAUPER-I move that it be referred to a special committee of five, to be appointed by the president. Mr. TUO:0rE —I brought a resolution b~e-I 210 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE GONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. [PREsIDENoT —Are you explaining your vote? Mr. GoI DMlAN —No, sir. PREsIDENT-You are out of order. Mr. SHAW —I rise, Mr. President, to a question oforder. It is this: An amendment ought to be germain to the subject of the original proposition which it proposes to amend; and I think you should rule this amendment out of order on the ground that it has nothing to do with the subject of the proposition it proposes to amend. Mr. THORPE-I vote to lay the amendment on the table, because I agree with the gentleman who has just spoken, that it is not germain to the subject of the section proposed to be amended. Mr. SHAw —-I would like for the chair to decide that question. PREsiDENT —-The chair decides that it is germain to the subject and in order. Mr. GOLDMAN —-I believe that the gentleman who offered it, being a meipber of the Committee on Emancipation, had no right to move an amendment to that report, and" therefore I ask to be excused from voting. [The Convention r efused to excuse Mr. Goldman from voting, and the following was the result of the vote: YEAs -- Messrs. Ariail uti, Aust in, Bennie, Bonzano, Collin. Cazabat, Cook J. K., Dav i e s, Dupaty, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Gol dma n, Gorlinski, Hills, Hi re, Maas, Ne well, Pintado, Schr oe der, Shaw, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Thorpe, Wells —-26. NAys - Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauva is, Bell, Bofil l, Buckley Burke, Cook T., Crozat, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Fish, Foley, Gastinel, Geier, Gruneberg, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Helnderson, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murpiy M. mW., Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schnirr, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Wenck, Wilson —-55. The motion was lost. The question recurring upon the adoption of the first part of the motion, it was adopted by the following vote: YE.AS — Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Bennie, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cultler, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, [The ayes and noes were called, aind a call of the roll ordered.] Mr. DAviIES-I move to lay it on the ta ble. Mr. ABELi-ifMr. President PRESIDENT-Do no aeut interrupt the calling of the roll. Mr. ABEIr, —I ask that the president state the question fairly and in parliamentary form. PRESIDENT —I have stated it fully and fairly. This incessant interruption is intended to interrupt and embarrass the proceedings. Mr. ABELL-[emphatically]-I DENY IT. PR.ESIDENT —I will state it again. The question is on the laying on the table the first part of the amendment of Mr. Abell, to the first article of the report of the Committee on Emancipation. " Notwithstanding the Legislature shall never pass any act to permit free negroes to vote."' Those who vote aye, vote to lay the amendment on the table. Those who vote no, vote against laying the amendment on the table. [The secretary proceeded to cali the roll.] tMr. STAUFFER-If there is no objection, I desire to explain my vote. Mr. STOCKER-The gentleman was right to explain his vote. [Consent was given by the Convention.] Mr. STAUFFER-I vote to lay the amendment on the table, because it is a question that belongs to the legislative department, and not to that of emancipation. Mr. BONZANO-I shall vote to lay it on the table, because it would be out of place as a part of the article. Mr. DAVIES-I moved to lay it on the table, because it was out of place. Mr. HILLS-I vote to lay it on the table, because the subject belongs to the legislative department and not that of emancipation. Mr. STOCKER-I vote against laying it o n the table, because a negro shall never vote in this State with my consent. Mr. GOILDMAN —I think the gentleman, being a member of the Committee on Emancipation, had no right to move an amendment, but should have made his recommehdations in his minority report. 211 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION should possess; his wife, his house and his horse, but that a negro shall have the same elective franchise as a white man, is impossible. Has the North granted this right to the Indian? No State but Mississippi has done so, and that was on account of Harrison's election. I am in favor of ameliorating their condition. The first subject is emancipation, and without it we are their masters in every respect and must control them. Why do we not allow women to vote? New Jersey did so for many years, and many a woman in her bloomers, voted for Jackson or whom she pleased.. Do not women vote as stockholders in a bank? Yet I am not willing to see them go into the halls of Congress, but prefer to have them mcve in., their respective provinces. I want to see man rule. We have thre e hundred t hous and negroes, and the best way to get rid of them is to let them go into Yankeedom and die therethat is their business. But do not let us keep them amo n g us because they are free. I a m in favo r of their going from the Sta te, as is provided in the constitution of Missouri; then the y can neither get in or out. This is the re a son that Indian a has passed the law now in force there. Now women an d g irls can do some work, but when you come to a plantation, can you hire fo ur o r five hundred whites to take the negrols place? No, sir, because it is impossible to control them. Give to this class permission to go to and fro, acquire property, be qualified citizens, Ias in case of a woman or a minor, but as to voting-that is another question. As strange as it may seem, Indiana only ceased, in 1852, being a slave State by thirteen votes; yet in this very State a negro can hardly exist. I hope that the day will come when the doctrine of property in a human being will be unknown upon this earth, for I do not believe it is right. In the days of the Greeks and Romans, about which so many gentlemen are harp ing, when white men were slaves, compen sation was never made.'In Massachusetts, this doctrine has been also advocated and sustained in, and by the coulrts, though de facto slavery at that time existed there. Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gruneberg, Healy Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Kugler, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thomas, Wenck, Waters, Wells, Wilson-68. NAys-Messrs. Austin, Bennie, Collin, Cazabat, Dupaty, Flagg, Fosdick, Goldman, Gorlinski, Hills, Hire, Pintado, Shaw, Smith, Thorpe-15.] Mr. FOLEY-I move to lay the last part of the amendment on the table. Mr. DAvms —I second the motion. [The ayes and nays were called with the following result: YEAs-Messrs. Ariail, Bailey, Bennie, Bonzano, Brott, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Maas, Mann, Morris, Murphy E., Normand, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe-40. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Baum, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Foley, Gastinel, Harnan, Healy, Heard, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Purcell J., Schnurr, Seymour, Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wilson-40.] Mr. DAvi+ —I move that the president vote. PRESIDENT —-The chair would vote, as a matter of course, without a motion. I think the proper parliamentary practice is not to keep up this continual voting to lay on the table, but to come to a direct vote. I shall therefore vote "no," though on a direct vote I should most certainly vote against the amendment. [The motion to lay on the table was lost.] Mr. HENDERSON-Mr. President and gentlemen, in 1847 the Wilmot proviso was issued and inserted into both the free and slave States, actually forbidding negro emigration into the States, from which it is easy to see that the Yankee does not love the negro any more than does a Southerner. I wish gentlemen to understand that I draw a distinction between political franchise and unanimity. I believe that a negro I 212 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I have failed to see any force in the objection of the gentleman who has addressed the House on this question. I fail to see that by allowing the negroes to immigrate here we are to gi ve the State o ver t o them. I d o not believe a nyth ing of the kind. I believe, as I said before, t he Anglo-Saxon .is the dominant race in Louisiana and this country, and we need have no fear th at the negroes will come to rule us; it is impossible, in the na ture of th ings. For that reason, I do not believe in inserting any su ch clase in the constitution as has already been adopted- tha t the Legis latur e shall never p ass any laws authorizing the free negroes to vote. I do not th i nk the Legislature would wish to pass any such l aws. I believe it is our bu sine ss to fix the qualification s, and le ave th e future Legislatures to take care of themselves. This generation is not in favor of negro equalityin any shape. This pro position to prevent emigr a tion is one that nevera can be carrie d. Yo u canno t prevent it, if you try. Under this provision you would prevent negro soldiers from being brought here by the government. How are you going to prevent it? Suppose in times of war negro soldiers are ordered here. Do you suppose this provision of the constitution is going to stop them from coming into the State? Not by any means. You cannot do it; nor can you, with so largei a negro population as we have here, and will have for many generations to come, make any law to prevent this emigration. For these reasons I shall vote against the amendment, and hope that it will be voted down by the Convention; for I believe it would be unjust and cruel in itself and op posed to the )rest interests of the State. Mr. STOCKER —It seems my misfortune to differ very frequently with my friend from the Second District. I hope this proposi tion will prevail, and a great many of the reasons urged by the gentleman have forced me to that conclusion. My mind was not entirely made up before the gentleman made his remarks; but now I am well satis fied that this amendment should prevail. I am not only in favor of preventing emiIgration of the negroes, but am also in favor I of pushing those out who are already here, I am in favor of allowing the free negro to go from Massachusetts to California, and' anywhere else within the States or territories acquired or hereafter to be acquired by the United States. They are now fighting under yonder flag, and we come here not as worshippers of the Southern cause, but, under a kind Providence, to change our laws and customs so that we may do rightly in the future. If you adopt this amendment, it will be manifestly against public policy.. I must vote against it, and hope that my friends in this Convention will think as I do, and vote that the Legislature shall have no power on the subject. For all these reasons I am in favor of the first and opposed to the second division of the amendment. Mr. HILLS-I repeat I hope that the amendment will not be adopted- by this Convention. In the first place, sir, both amendments offered are out of place; they do not belong to this report at all. I shall vote against this amendment for the same reason that I voted against the other —that the subject does not belong here. It belongs to another portion of the constitution. It seems to me it would be very disastrous to the commercial and agricultural interests of this State to prohibit emigration and free egress into this State. We have been told, time after time, that the plantations of Louisiana can only be worked successfully by negro labor, and that the white man is not fitted by nature to till the plantations of this State; and if we are to limit the negro population of the State to those already here and may hereafter be born here, it seems to me we shall puta very serious obstruction in the path of our agricultural interests. The time may come, and very soon, when it may be a public necessity to have negroes brought here for the very purpose of cultivating our plantations; but under this clause of the constitution it is proposed to prevent any such emigration. 2 1 "i Another reason is: I do not believe, it is right or just that this Convention should take any such action. I, do not believe we have any right -or justice to prohibit any class of persons that may choose to do so., DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION before. [Cheers.] When the proper time comes, let the gentleman, if he is running for the Legislature, advocate the expulsion of the negro, and if I do not agree with him I will oppose him and let the people decide; but I am most emphatically opposed to the question being decided before this House. I believe it is brought up here for no other purpose than to prevent the balance of the resolution being acted upon. I believe the gentleman knows that it does not properly belong here. Mr. SULLIVAN —I would like to inquire of the gentleman who says the negro soldiers are protecting us, what they did some months ago at Fort Jackson? It seems there are several kinds of abolitionists onil the floor. I consider myself a good Union man, but I am not in favor of giving the negro the same right as I possess. There are those who are not really in favor of freeing the negroes without compensation, but of miscegenation, the intermarrying of the whites and blacks. I say there are some here who think the race would be bettered by such a stock. I am in favor of emancipation, and of paying every man for his slave. Mr. WELLS-Since coming into this Convention, I have been a silent but close observer of the ground taken by the members. I was sent here by the loyal slaveholders of the parish of Rapides to represent them in this Convention, to revise and amend the constitution of the State of Lou isiana, of which I am proud to be a native. I am sorry to find that many members of this Convention think there is no place in the State outside of the city of New Orleans. I am very sorry to say that they mistake this hall for the House of Representativeis, and I am still sorrier to see them biassed by private opinions. As for myself, I amii called upon to define my opinions, and am going to give them plainly and emphatically to everybody. I am for immediate and unconditional emancipation. [Applause.] I am for the education of the negro, [great applause,] for the simple reason that I believe he will be better to himself and more useful to the country and the white race. [Cheers.] I am for compensating the loyal owners, pro [applause] and sending them to Massachusetts, or some other place, where our great philanthropists come from. [Applause.] I am not one of them. I have no friendship fo r t he negro. I am against him and will b e against him, and whe rever my voice can be raised to put down a negro I wi ll d o i t, either in the shape of emigration, education or any other -tion. Mr. ST.yUFFER-The gentleman is very anxi ous t o send all the negroes out of the State to Massachusetts, or some other State. I ask w heth er t he negroes are not now prot e cting him and us? [Applause.] Whether they are no t ga rrisoning our forts? Let him go to C arr oll t on and other places th roughout the State, and see what they are doing for us to-day. I am opposed to this resolution for one particular reason, and that i1 that there is not a clause in the constitution of the United States th a t forbids any on e from com ing into the country, and I believe this question belongs to the Legislature and not to this body. We are not here to legislate, but to form a basis for legislation, under peculiar circumstances. I am not willing to say what is going to follow in this State, or any other, when this war is over. - It may be though I trust it will not-that the very men whom the gentlemen wish to expel from the State will be glad to call upon them to defend the homes and families of the gentlemen. [Applause.] The colored population of this St-ate is as willing to fight for our country and to maintain our rights as any member of this Convention. [Applause.] I, for one, will raise my voice against excluding them from the State. No law that we might make would prevent the military authorities from bringing negroes here when they are required. We are here to form a foundation whereon the Legislature shall act, and not here to legislate specifically. Therefore I am opposed to any decisive action on the matter on the ground taken by the gentleman from the Fifth, (Mr. Abell,) that we represent only a certain portion of this State, but hereafter when this war is over-when the flag of the Union floats over every acre of territory that be longs to the United States —then I will ask you to legislate on this question and not 214 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. the consequence would be that all your industrial interests would be at one fell swoop struck to the earth, and you would become so poor that you would hardly have clothing for your backs or food to put - into your mouths. But more than that, this is a matter of humanity. I am opposed to any equality of diverse races. The allusions to miscegenation, made by some gentleman upon this floor, I consider out of place, and an insult to any gentleman to whom such language is addressed in this hall. I believe, before God and man, that the violation of the constitution of the United States, and the inhumanity of the proposed amendment, makes the proposition too monstrous to be entertained. I believe the subject involved should be left to the wisdom of the Legislature, to the operation of circumstances, and th e e xpe rience s of ti me. I was sorry to n oti ce th at this inhuman proposition was seconded a nd advocated by a gentleman whose antecedents would lead me to suppose tha t he would sympath ize with th e d own-trodden and oppressed everywhere. It grates harshly upon my ear to hear this honored son of the Emerald Isle, (Mr. Sullivan,).who was in his youth deprived of all civil, political and religious rights, now that he is enfranchised under our republican institutions, lending his influence t) enforce on others a fundamental law of this State, the effect of which would permit abuses and persecutions that should have no place except in the bottomless pit. In the name of Him who preached peace and' good will toward all men, cannot this subject of slavery be treated calmly and .dispassionately? Is there any necessity of this undue excitement, or of putting any thing in the constitution which is legally or conventionally wrong, or opposed to the plainest principles of political economy, justice and humanity? Let us pass- the emancipation clause of the section; say, if you please, the negro shall not vote; but, for God's sake, gentlemen, let it stop there. Go into the country parishes and examine into the intricate and delicate relations that generations of slavery have created there? to say nothing of the social life of this city... youl who talk en glibly, or amuse yourselve vided the Federal authorities confiscate the property of disloyal owners-[r enewed applause, and cries of " out of order"e-provided the Fede ral authorities confiscate the pibperty of disloyal owners to meet these payments. Furthermore, I am in favor of prosecuting this war under the pr e se nt occupant of the Whi t e House. This is where I st and. [G reat applause.] MIr. DUprE-I th ink i t is in consistent with reason and co mmon s ens e to pass that portion of t he am endm ent which is before the House, for we have to-day 10,000 black men in arms in defence of the United States who are t o return to their homes and families, but by such action would be excluded. Mr. THORPE —Mr. Pre sident, though unprepared to speak on the subje ct matter, I am not wil ling that a vote should be taken upon this imp ortant admndment without at least spreading my protest against it upon the records of this Convention. I think, m yself, that' it was brought in to embarrass th e action of this Convention upon the o riginal clause,' th ough the fact is denied. I c annot understand this provision as legally and properly belonging to this section of the constitution, for it i s a matter purely legislative, and shoud s o have been left to be deal t w ith when'the section relat ing to t he l egislative dep artm en t i s bef ore the Convention. I came int o this Co nvention with the determina tion t o d o my be st towards hav ing this c ons ttitutio n passed in as few words and sentences as possible. I am in favor of leaving everything we possibly can to the Legislature, and believe most emphatically it is not a matter for us to assume legislative powers. One gentleman upon my right, (Mr. Stocker,) says, in the most glib and pleasant maniner imaginable: " I am against the negro-in favor of driving him out of the State,," etc. Let me say one word to that gentleman. The negro slave population of this State, four years ago, was officially announced as being worth a hundred and seventy millions seven hundred and thirty-three thousand dollars. Let us suppose it possibl to carry out the gentlemaw's proposition —to drive out of Louisiana that amount of producetive industry~ 215 I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION - am a citizen of the Union, and if I am e capable of sitting in my chair and doing - justice to Louisiana, I must legislate for the nation. - There are other things that gentlemen talk - about, with what seems to me to be a sint gular levity. Are we to pass this amend, ment, or have the old laws re-enacted relating to free colored seamen coming to this harbor in foreign ships? What kind of a free State constitution is this that you would pass, when you blacken it by a pro vision most disgraceful to Christianity as well as to all just and equitable laws? When a ship comes here from New York, Boston, or from an English port, these col ored seamen on board are free men; are they to be taken, as in old times, and be thrust into prison, without any reason, until the craft is prepared to leave the port these poor men, who have committed no crime in the sight of God or man-are such men, under a free State constitution, to be treated as villains? I ask you, gen tlemen, who hold in your hands the real solution of this difficulty, what are you going to do with the deck hands or waiters, from sister States, who come to New Or| leans on the floating palaces of the Missis sippi, which magnificent vessels, I hope, with returning peace, would crowd our levee miles in extent? What is to be the fate of these useful river men? Are they, under your free State constitution, to be imprisoned, or held in durance vile, until the steamer on which they are employed is ready to leave our midst? Certainly, such legitimate deductions would seem to say that we understand but little of the findamental pri nciple of liberty or just law. Drive the negro population from the State, and you would desolate your State, and remove from it the labor-power that made Louisiana before the rebellion in the eyes of the world a State of planters and merchant princes. No, gentlemen; let us act wisely, humanely, and again I repeat, leave all the details of this exciting subject where it belongs, to the Legislature. I believe that we here to-day represent the whole, entire State of Louisiana, and I have no sy~mpathy with the sentiment or with the legal exception, that because one in the treatment of this solemn question and see how deep and wide would strike the operations of your proposed constitu tional provision. I am not ignorant of the important charact er oti a c of this act of emanci pation, and I am di sposed t to treat it accord ingly. Let us therefor e come up nobly, but consid eratel y, to the wo rk, and hum anely, d ispassionately, and in a Christian manner, provide for the important in teres ts of t he future. There are among the populations of Lou isiana m any of mixed blood, who are good citizens and who were once large proprie tors. I am told the co l ored people of New O rleans alone are taxed on thirteen millions of d oll a r s worth of property. I know my self o oon e ne ighborhood, where for miles along the Mississippi coast are nothing but rich sugar plantations, owned by tlhs mixed race, colored, or negroes, if you please. In that section of country, Rapides, which is represented on this floor with so much honor by Mr. Wells, there are rich neigh borhoods of negro plantation owners; and these men have been permitted, even under the black code, as all other Louisiana laws, to enjoy the happiest privileges of citizen ship, that of being slaveholders, as owning large landed estates worked by slaves, as some one or two of these negro slavehold ers at least have been by the Legislature of the State, made voters at the polls. But now, gentlemen, these men, these late slave holders, who have been good citizens, or have any possible claim upon the State and the people, are struck down by the pro posed amendment and placed in an infi nitely worse position than they were under any of the antecedent pro-slavery constitu, tions of this State. I do not ask for negro equality, or to have any intercourse with the race beyond the necessary contact of neighborhood resi dence or the relation of business. I have lived in Louisiana nearly thirty years, and no one must throw in my face anything of a sectional character, or taunt me about the North, Massachusetts, or any other particu lar part of the country. I claim to be a man of the entire country, and as such I never desire to call myself a New Yorker, a Louisianian~ or a Massachusetts man; I 216 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 217 member represents but comparatively few o parishes we do not represent the State. We were in rebellion against the United States, and had forfeited not only our property but our lives, being entitled to no consideration, though I believe that when an election was held in this State on secession, there was a majority of the people who voted for the Union. But the State was impelled into ruin by bad men, who have induced our citizens by thousands to shoulder their muskets, and who are to-day in our borders, in ai ms against the State. But Louisiana, Georgia or Mississippi, or where exists the darkest spot of this rebellion, I contend that if there is one true and loyal man in such a spot, he represents, under the Federal flag, the State in which he resides, and hle is the official bond that connects his State with the Union. So we here assembled to-day, fortunately for our cause, a body representing under any circumstances a majority of the population of the State, do wholly, literally and legally represent the entire State. But more than this: with a liberality that will eternally redound to our honor, we have solemnly declared and enacted, that what would have been a majority if all the parishes were represented, should alone constitute a majority in our official action, and therefore as merely a matter of majority we represent Louisiana. This is the way I look upon the subject of our e right here to represent the State, and view the grave question of our undisputed responsibility and power to speak for the State. I cannot sit down without paying a tril-ute of my admiration to the gentleman fiom Rapides (Mr. Wells.) Before he was well out of his boy-clothes I had the honor of knowing his family. Through the troublous times, when the State was closed, against loyal intercourse, I used to speculate, while in the North, who among all my old acquaintances in Louisiana were tel e to the Union, and foremost among the noble group I placed the Wellses, of Rapides. I believe that subsequent experience has shown me that I never, in a single instance, mnade a mistake.in my speculations. I am gl ad to hear the scion of s uch a noble house, A representative of one of the largest shive 28 corresponding meas ures, c onsistent with such an acanatnd harmonious with humanity. In this declaration he does honor to himself and adds dignity to this Convention-other gentlem en on this floor, who a re, like him, representing country parishes, an d lar ge slaveholders, are among the most earnest fi'iends of the Union, and for all measures that will make Louisiana a fiee State-I cannot honor these gentlemen enough. Mr. ORR-Since I have been here I have done nothing but vote on the various questions that came up. I am perhaps differently situated from any member of- this Convention. I was sent here pledged to support no particular measures. I was sent by the people of the Tenth Representative District who had confidence enough in me to leave me free and untrammeled. Before coming into this Convention I have been denounced as a secesh, as a copperhead, and through some of the newspapers as a man belonging to a party that was endeavoring to retard the progress and efforts to restore Louisiana again to the galaxy of the Union. I am willing to let my actions speak for me. I voted to free the negroes. I voted for immediate emancipation. I voted for it because I considered slavery to be morally wrong. I considered the Declaration of Iadependence where it says, "11all men are born free and equal," not all white men, a stigma on the country claiming to be the most enlightened nation on the globe, and holding at the same time four millions of human' beings in bondage. In regard to educating the negro, I am in favor of giving him the elements of an English education, provided the whole expense is not saddled on the people of Louisiana. It is a measure that concerns the whole United States as much as Louisiana. It is only in accordance with the principles of humanity that the negro shall receive a liberal share of education. We cannot expect the majority will acquire anything more than the rudiments, but whatever they have the capacity to learn, in God's name let them learn it. Still I am not willing that the people of Louisiana shall bear the whole burden, I am willing to allow tb]p sXave, DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION holder compensation, provided others, equally deserving, are allowed it. There are thousands of poor laboring men throughout the State who toil from morn till night to support their families. who have been prevented from following their avocations by the proclamation of Gov. Moore, made to force them, through starvation, to shoulder the musket and go into Confederate ranks. I voted against giving the negro the right of suffrage; I shall vote against it on all occasions. I do not think he is entitled to it. Some of the gentlemen have said he was defending us, and may be called again to defend us from the attack of the rebel army. If the white men are not willing to defend themselves, I do not think they ought to be defended. I shall never ask for such defence for the protection of my self and family. I think the white man can do anything the negro can, on a plantation or any where else. I have seen white men laboring under the sun day after day, in the mud and water of the canals, where a negro could not have stood it for twelve hours. In regard to the colored sailors, etc., who come here, I think they are a violent, reckless set, and should be excluded forever. I steamboated for twenty years and know the character of the free negro. It was never necessary to send them to pris on; the captain had to give bonds to take them away. I am in favor of the amend inent prohibiting slavery, and there is not one man in fifty in Louisiana but who will vote for it. If allowed. the free begroes -will swarm wild this State and make it a c y of negroes. .... Mr. TALIAFERRO>AS many of the gentle men have defined their position, I will say, I was born in the State of Louisiana, and never was in a free State in my life; but, in regard to the freeing of the negroes, I unqualifiedly endorse the doctrine of Mr. Wells. I have two brothers fighting under the flag of the Union, and I intend to fight under it myself before long. [Applause.] ji P~_otion to adjourn was made and car ried —yeas 48, nays 28. -WEDNSDAY, May 11, 1864. [At the usual hour the Convenltion was called to ord er, aud th e proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Andrews. The secretary called the roll, an d the following gentlemen answered to their names, viz: Messrs. Abell. Ariail, Austin, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley. Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook T., Cook J.K., Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne. Duke, Edwards, Flagg, Flood, -Fosdick, Gastinel, Goldman, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Millspaugh, Murphy M. W.. Newell. Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pi'ntado, Fursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stauffer, Stiner, Taliaferro, Terry, Waters and Wenck -62. There not being a quorum present, the sergeant-at-arms was directed to procur e the attendance of absent m ember s. Messrs. Barrett, Baum, Fish, Foley, Fuller, Mendiverri, Montamat, Orr, Poynot, Purcell J., Schr oe der, S tocker, Sullivan, Thorpe, Thomas and Wells —16, having taken their seats, the president announced that a quorum was present. The secretary read the minutes of the previous day's proceedings.] Mr. CAMPBELL —Mr. President, I desire to record my vote on the amendment of Mr. Abell to Art. 3 of the report of the Committee on Emancipation. Mr. FOLEY-Mr. Presiders, I believe that amendment has nothing to do with emancipation, but is directly opposed to it. Mr. HILI.S-I move that the gentleman be permitted to vote. [The motion was carried.] Mr. CAMPBELL-I vote yes. Mr. GRUrNEBERG-Mr. President, I also desire permission to vote on that amendment. [Permission was given.] Mr. GRuNtEIERG —I vote yes. Mr. FOLEY-I move that Mr. Kugler be allowed to vote on the first and second articles of the report of the Committee on Emancipation. Mr. KU IE} —<-On the first section I vote yes. On the second section I vote yes. Mr. MANN —Mr. Kugler desires to record his vote on the amendment providing that I i 218 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA.. 319 the Legislature shall never pass any law allowing free negroes to vote, &c. Mr. KuGLER —On that amendment, I vote government before they turn around, and in a most violent and offensive manner do everything they can do to preserve slavery from the certain overthrow to which it has been doomed. We cannot believe the real sentiments of these men were known when they were appointed to office. But now they have shown their hand, and, in our. judgment, they do no credit to the government whose agetits and representatives they are. We have not spoken thus freely without great reluctance; but it is a duty we owe to ourself and to the public, and we shall not shrink from its performance. We say, then, frankly, that the power by which these men were appointed will be and already is held responsible before the world for their conduct in the Convention. At the same time, we believe the course it will pursue in view of existing facts, will be such as to vindicate its own dignity and honor; and so believing, we dis miss the sutject for the presen t.," From the tenor of this article it wotl(l seem that e very member of t h is Convention is expe cte d to obey implicitly whatever t hat p aper enunciates, for i t ha s constituted itself the conscience-keepe r of members. Now I e n t er a plea to the jurisdiction. I spurn the ide a t hat I ha ve to bow to the dictates of any ma n or set of men in matters of conscience. It is true, sir, I have been app oint ed b y Gov. Hahn to an importan t and dignified of fice. B ut, sir, I can and do say here th at I did n ot seek the office, but it so ught me. Before Gov. Hahn had even been nominated as candidate for governor, I had been recommended by a large number of the loyal citizens of Baton Roug e to Gov. Shep le y for the very place to wvhich I have been appointed, and before the inauguration of our present gove rnor, I had b een recommended by the Union Association of Baton Rouge, consisting of some o ne hundred an d fift y m emberes, without any s olicitation on my part, for the position to which I have bee n a ppoi nted. In accepting the appointment, I reserved to myself the right of discharging the duties appertaining to that office according to law, justice and the dictates of my conscience. lAs well might the Era assume the right of dictating what I shouldl do on the bench, as yes. Mr. WATERS-I vote yes on that amend ment. Mr. FUILER —On the amendment I vote yes. Mr. GORLINSKI —Mr. President, I wish to explain why I voted. PRESIDE-NT-You are not in order. Mr. GORLLNSKI-Then I shall take another opportunity to explain. [The minutes were adopted.] Mr. HEARD —Mr. President, I rise to a question of privilege. In the Era of this morning I find the following: "Another most noticeable fact is that those who have opposed emancipation in the Convention, and have done all in their power to revive the wicked proscriptive laws that were in force before the war, are, most of them, office-holders under the civil government recently organized here —some but just appointed, and others who have fed upon the public crib nearly ever since the Federal occupation of New Orleans. We hold that on matters of such importance, there is something unbecoming, to say the least, in having a free State government represented by the bitterest supporters of slavery. If our government be in fact a free State government. as all the world has been taught to believe, we do not see what propriety there can be in its agents and pensioners voting against a free State on every occasion, and even going to the extent of a violent disregard of parliamentary rules to confuse and embarrass its friends. The sole issue before the people, when Mr. Hahn was a candidate for the gubernatorial chair, was that of a free State. This was avowed over and over again, in every possible form, and was reiterated by Mr. Hahn, in his inaugural address. The gentlemen who have accepted office under him could not possibly have been ignorant of the fact; and yet some of them are scarcely sleated in positions of honor and profit under this very free State ment. Mr. CUTIER-1 vote aye on the amend ment. i)fr. BENIilE-I vote aye on the amend 0 220, DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION The amendment was carried, and the res olution, as amended, adopted.] PRESIDZ,NT —The unfinished business, the report of the Committee on Emancipation, now comes up. Mr. WENCK —I really think we are assuming too much power, with which we have not been invested by our constituents. We are assuming power that belongs only to the Legislature. I cannot see how it is that the gentlemen take more time to pass an act to repeal the black code. We have already provided that slavery shall not exist, and if slavery is abolished, the black code falls of itself. We have already done away with that code by abolishing slavery, and there is no necessity of formally passing upon a separate article to repeal it. The existence of slavery is necessary to the vitality of that code. We have reached the point arrived at in the article. by doing away with slavery, and further action on it would be useless and meaningless. I have voted for the first article, and for the second, and for the amendment, but I shall say plainly, that the third article does not belong here. If it belongs anywhere, it is a matter for legislative action, and not for the action of this body. And let me tell you, furthermore, that there is no clause in our constitution of 1852, or any other constitution, that provides that free negroes shall not come into the State i but such provisions.have been made by special legislation. If it was not done in the constitution of 18.52, why do it now? Why not leave the matter for the Legislature, as was done in that constitution? Why not go to work at once and perform the duties for which we have been elected? We have an ample number of pre cedent s be for e us, in the constituitions of other States, from which to make a constitution. to read me a lecture on the manner in which I should vote in this body The Era says it was expected that every member elected to this Convention would vote for emancipation. I was prepared to do so if the,proviso for compensating loyal slaveh olders had been incorporated in the ordinance of emancipation. Mr. FOLEY —Mr. President, the gentleman is out of order. PRESIDE,NT-He is no t out of order and will proceed. Mr. HEARD-I had a pr ovi so to o ff er to that effect, but was choked off by that terrible eng ine of l egislation. the previous question. I understood the issue before the peop e at the gubernatorial election, and voted for Gov. Hahn, and under the circums aestances would do so again; but I could not in conscience vote for a measure unconditionally whi ch would tea r f rom loyal pe opl e t he small remnant'of what they h ave left, withou t at least making an effort to compe ns ate t hem — PRESIDENT-The gentleman is out of order. No member ha s a right, on a question of privilege, to go into a general debate. On the resolution of Mr. Cazabat, relative to compensation of loyal citizens, I appoint Messrs. Cazabat, Wells, Fosdick, Abell and Taliaferro. Unfinished business is now in order. Mr. THORPE-I call up my resolution of yesterday, which I desire to amend by adding the words "and debates," which were accidentally omitted in drafting the resolution as it passed. Mr. ForiY —I move that the gentleman be permitted to amend the resolution as he proposes. Mr. ABFIT-I move that instead of one thousand, I am pleased with the suggestion. I think that our action is for the benefit of the people, and that there should be a larger number printed than has been ordered. I move that five thousand be printed. And in closing, let me repeat, we have already abolished slavery; all that we would add by way of amendment necessarily follows, and is something that has nothing to do with us, and that we have nothing to do with. It is a matter of legislation, and by acting on it we are assuming legislative power, which does not belong to us. mr. MorMAT-I second the motional. ,Mr. EDwARD.' —I move to lay the amendment on the table. [The motion was lost. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I regret, Mr. President, exceedingly' to see gentlemen elected as free State men now hesitate to cast their votes as free State men, yet such is the case, and to such an extent, that I begin to think that Louisiana is not a free but a pro-slavery State. Mr. GORLINsKI —Mr. President, I voted no on the first amendment of Mr. Abell, and will vote no on this, for this reason: we have abolished slavery in the first section, and in this amendment he says "provided always that the Legislature shall pass no laws allowing negroes to vote," etc. It is evident to my mind that the gentle man introduced this amendment for the purpose of overshadowing the acts of this Convention in regard to the emancipation of slaves. The next reason is, that I believe it to be entirely inconsistent with the section it proposes to amend. If the mat ter belongs anywhere, it belongs to the legislative department. The same gentleman who introduced it (Mr. Abell) has been advocating slavery on this floor for two weeks. I do not come here to advocate 'slavery or to justify myself before the advo cates of slavery; but to oppose them to the end, here, as our noble soldiers are doing on the battle-field. I shall vote ",No" on the amendment. Mr. STAUFFER-I call for the previous question, and move to strike out entirely the third clause from the report, with all the amendments thereto. Mr. THOMAS-I amend by adding sections IV and V. Mr. HILLS-I second the motion. Mr. STAUFE'R-I accept the amendment. Mr. STOCKER-I rise to a question of order. I believe that the only question before the House is on the second division of the amendment, and the motion to lay that upon the table has been decided in the negative. Mr. HENDERSON-The motion was properly put, is in order and cuts off all debate. Mr. ABELr-That is exactly in keeping with the course affairs have taken in this Convention. I would like to hear the gentleman express himself on the question, but he is as afraid of truth as the devil is of holy water. Mr. FOSDICK-I have a ve ry few words to say o n this subject-simply to say that I s hall oppose the amendment of Mr. Abell. As I hav e sa id b efore, this body was called here for a distinct purpose. We are called here to make a ceonstitution, and no authority to l egislate in any manner whatever has been delegate d to us. W h v e hav e been here five weeks, an d what have we do ne? W e have listened to debates upon every subject but that which we are c all ed up on to perform. The proposition that I voted against yesterday had no business there. I considered it as an insult offered to the committee of which I am chairman, (on Legis lative Department.) This body has no power to legislate upon that subject; it belongs to the Legislature alone. The constitution of the United States does not make any distinction between its free citizens; and, sir, I deny the right of this Convention to close the door against men in this State who are cittzens of the United States, and who, the gentleman himself knows, are by industry, by wealth, and by intelligence, entitled to a voice in the administration of the affairs of the State. I repeat, sir, that we are sent here to do an important duty as free State men. I, for one, shall do it freely and fearlessly, and there is not power enough in the United States to make me say no when I mean yes. If the gentleman who offered the amendment will refer to the constitution of the United States, he will find, art. IV-, sec. 2, that "The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all-privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States." Under this provision, the free citizens of the United States have a right to the same privileges in all the Statesthis State as well as others., Let the gentleman show me a right to shut out a free citizen of any other State from coming to Louisiana, if it is in his power to do it. The charge has been made on' this floor that the negro crews of vessels are the worst men who visit this port. I deny it, sir, and I aver that the negro sailor is equal to the white, and that so far as obedience to the master is concerned, he is superior, and I call upon masters of veasels to prove my assertion. 221 4 222 -DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION should like to have had the matter taken up section by section. Mr. MORRIS-I don't exactly understand it. I beg to be excused from voting. PRESIDENT-Under the rules you have adopted every member must vote, unless excused by the Convention. Mr. MORRIS-I vote "no," then. [The following is th e result of the vote: ESsS —Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bonzano, Bromley, Burke' Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, F is h, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy,. Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills,. Hire, Howes, Maas, Mann, Millspaugh, Mor - ris. Murphy E., Newell, O'Conner. Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J.. Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf. Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —60. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bofill, Buckley, Crozat, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards. Flagg, Gastinel, Gruneberg. Heard, Kugler, Maurer, Mayer, 4endiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Normand, Ong, Pursell S., Sullivan.-24.] Mr. THOMAS —I move that the rules be suspended for the purpose of reading the two first sections a third time. PRESIDENT-The report has passed its second reading. The next business in order is the Mr. PURSELL —Mr. President, I desire to explain the vote that I have just given. PRESIDENT-You are too late. You may explain through the newspapers; that is the proper mode now. Mr. PUsISEIAT-I know I can, but it will cost. Mr. THORPE-I would like for the report of the Committee on Assault of Members to lie over for a few days, and move that it lie over till Monday. [The motion was carried.] Mr. IHENDERSON-There was a motion to postpone the order of the day; such a motion is always in order; and I move now that the first two sections of this report be taken up and made the order of the day, and move a suspension of the rules in order t o take them up now. Mr. STOCKFR-I move to lay that motion on th~e table. [The motion to table was lost.] Mr. HmLS-I seconded the motion to strike out the second, third, fourth and fifth sections, with the amendments. Mr. ABELL — move to lay that resolution on the table. [The ayes and noes were called with the following result: YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Crozat, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Heard, Kugler, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Normand, Payne J., Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan-25. NAYs,-Messrs. Ariail A s, A ustin, Bailey, Beauvais, Bell, Benni e, Bonzano, Broml ey, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Duane. Dupaty, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Maa s, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Newell, O'Conner, Orr, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J.,, Psell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells. Wilson-55.] Mr. DU.NE-I mo ve the pr ev iou s question, the m oti on to strike out. Mr. HILLS-yI seco nd the motion. Mr. ABELL-Is it not d ebatable? o PRESIDENT NO. [The motion was adopted-ayes 56. The main question was then put, the secretary began to call the roll, and Mr. Stocker started towards the door.] Mr. DuAmE-I protest against any gentleman's leaving the floor. Mr. STOCKER-I wish the members of this Convention to understand that I am opposed to this choking process. PRESIDENT — [To the sergeant-at-arms.] Let no member leave the floor. [To Mr. Stocker.] Take your seat, sir, and keep order. Mr. CAMPBELL —WOuld a motion be in or- | der, Mr. President' Mr. STOCKER-I would like to explain my vote. [No objection.] I am in favor of striking out the third and fourth sections, and of passing the others; but as I am compelled to vote on the whole, I rose to ask for a division, but as I did not catch the presidents eye, I vote " yes." Mr. WENc~ —I wish to explain my vote. [No objection.] I shall vote "yes," but I I i 0 PRESIDENT —No. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Mr. CAMPBLL Mr. President, will a mo- I PRESIDENT - The resolution to suspend tion be in order now? the rules is carried. Mr. Secretary, read PRESIDENT —What is it about? the first two sections of the report. Mfr. CAMPBELL-It is about the matter uil- [The secretary read: der consideration. Sec. 1. Slavery and involuntary servi PRESIDENT-Send it up to the secretary. tude, except as a punishment for crime, I whereof the I arty shall have been duly ~Mr. CA,.-ABELT —- wish to move to com-I Mit th e wshol mttof mo ton t convicted, are hereby forever abolished mit the whole matter of emancipation toa and prohibited throughout the State.] special committee of five, to be appointed Mr. HIS —Mr. President Mr. HiLIs —Mr. President — by the whole House..Mr. BONZANO —I move the previous ques PRESIDEN-T-It is out of order. tion. Mr. CAMPBELI. —Such a motion is ill order P EN-Mr. Secretary, read the se PRE.SI1)E.-,T —MIr. Secretary, read the ~secat any time. ond section. .PRESIDENT-YOU must wait till the third Mr. HILLS —Mr. President, I have the reading. floor, but yield to Mr. Bonzano, for a mo Mr. CA.IPBELL —Mr. President, I have the tion which I understand he proposes to documents here to prove that it is in order make. at any time. PRESIDENT' —It is not time to make a mo Mr. PoLEY —I move a call of the House. tion. Read the second section, Mr. Secre [The roll was called and 85 members tary. answered to their names.] [The secretary read: Mr. THOM,AS-I call for the yeas and nays Sec. 2. The Legislature shall make no on the question. of suspending the rules. law recognizing the right of property in [The call was sustained.] man.] Mr. ABELIL Mr. President, I have an Mr. PURSELL-I would like to explain my Mr ABEL —Mr. President, I have a amendment —vote. The reason why I voted — PRamendmentano ~PRESIDEN~T —Yot cannot explain a previ-I PRESIDENT-YOU cannot explain a, previ- I PRESIDENT-Amendments are not in order ~~~~~~~ous vote. lon the third reading. Mr. PURSELL-I cannot explain this with- Mr. BONZANO-I move the previous quesout explaining the other. I am about to tion. vote yes on this question. The reason why [The motion was carried on a rising vote I voted no on the — — ayes 61, noes 24.] PRESIDEN,,T —If you cannot explain your IThe main question was put, and the secvote without explaining a prior vote, you retary proceeded to call the roll. are out of order and will take your seat. Mr. ABELL-I consider this disgraceful. Mr. FOLEY —Mr. President, I protest Mr. CAMPBELL-You decided my amendagainst members going out. mluent out of order, and now that I should [The following is the result of the vote: bring it up on the third reading' YEAS-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Bar- PRESIDENT-I will do justice to both ni Por~ET- it ado mjorticety. butIsh mihod-o rett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, nority and majority, but I shall hold you Bromley, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook strictly to the rules of the House. T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Mr. CAMPBELL-I do not wish to make Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fos any difficulty, but when I presented my dick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gor- an dffculty, but when I presented y linski, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Henderson, document you would not hear to it, and Hills, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, told me to bring it upMayer, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Mur- PRESIDENT —My dear sir you do not unphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pinta- derstand the rules of the House. do, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schnurr, PRESID)ENT-The question is, Shall the Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, report be adopted? - Stumpf; Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Mr. MANNMr. President — y Mr. MAN~' —Mr. President — Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-72. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Buckley, Campbell, PRESIDENT-Sit down, sir, you are are not Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Gruneberg, Heard, in order. Maurer, Mendiverri, Ong, Sullivan-12.] [The ayes and noes were called. 223 0 DBBATES IN THB CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. WELLS —For the good of the white and the black race, and in honor of the flag of the Union, I vote yes. Mr. CROZAT —I change my vote from 1o1 to yes. Mr. HUILS-I move to suspend the rules and allow the president to vote as a member of the Convention. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-I vote " yes," gentlemen. with my whole soul. [Prolonged applause.] [The following was the result of the vote: YEAS —Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Beauvais, Bofill, Bell, Bennie, Bonzano Bromley, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski. Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell. Normand, O'Coniner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., - Paine J. T., Pifitado. Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroe:l^:. Schnurr, Sullivan, Shaw, Smith, Speilicy. Stocker, Stump; Stiner, Stauffer, Tali?..: o. Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck. Woll,; t son, and Mr. President —72. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Buckley, Up mpbell, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Gastinal, Gruneberg, Heard, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Waters-13.] PRESIDENT —The first and second sections of the majority report of the Committee on Emancipation have passed their third reading and are now a part and parcel of the law of the State of. Louisiana. - [Enthusiastic cheers.] Mr. THOMAS'I move that we adjourn. [The motion was carried.] roll.] Mr. ABESLL-Mr. President, I wish to explain my vote. I say, in the name of the people of Louisiana, that this is the most disgraceful, tyrannical, [" order, order,"] unheard of, [cries of "order," "put him down,"] unprincipled-[put down by the sergeant-at-arms.] I vote no. Mr. CAMPBELL I vote no, Nio, NO, in the name of the people. Mr. FOLEY —In the name of Jeff. Davis, rather. Mr. EDWARDS-In the name of the people, yes. Mr. ABELL-In the name of your master. Mr. FoLEY-For the good of the Union, I vote yes. Mr. HENDERSO.-N —I wish it to be understood that I vote for emancipation for no other reason than the preservation of this Union. Mr. HEARD-I am in favor of emancipation with compensation, but as the Convention has decided to emancipate without compensation, I vote no. Mr. MO.-TAMAT-I am of that opinion, and have done everything to have compensation included in the report, but as the majority are not in favor of it, vote yes. Mr. MORRIS —I have nothing against compensation, but as no value was attached to. the negro in Louisiana, I vote yes. [Renewed applause.] Mr. ORR-In accordance with the principles of universal freedom throughout the globe, Mr. President, I vote yes. Mr. STUMPF For the preservation of the Union, I vote yes. Mr. SuLLIVA-,'-I would vote for the report on emancipation if compensation was included, but as it is not, I vote no. MNr. THOMAS-I have ever been in favor of immediate emancipation of the slaves in Louisiana, personally, and I went before my constituents and told them so. They elected me by a large majority, and in order that I may not prove untrue to myself and constituency, I vote according to my conduct in this Convention, yes. Mr. WENCK- I have been against slavery for 10ng 7yer~s I vote yes, TiuRSDAY, May 12, 1864. [At 12 o'clock, the Convention was called to order by the chair, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Andrews. The roll was called and the following members answered to their names: Messrs. Ariail, Bennie, Bonzano, Bofill, Burke, Collin, Crozat, Decker, Dufresne, Duke. Edwards, Ennis, Gorlinski, Heard, Howes, Kugler, Millspaugh, Murphy M. W., Newell,,Normand, O'Conner, Pintado, Pursell S., Shaw, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Siillivan, Taliaferro, Thorpe, Thomas Wells and Wilson -33. There being no quorum, the president dispatp. tbh, sergeant-at-arms to bring ili I I 224 The secretary commenced calling the AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. absent members. After which the following gentlemen answered to their names, viz: Messrs. Abell, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Bell, Bromley, Beauvais, Buckley, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K.. Cook T., Cutler, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Hire, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat. Morris; Murphy E., Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Stauffer, Waters and Wenck-43. tal trio.! Heaven bless them! Mr. President, my views in regard to the provisos and amendments offered by the opposition have been duly and fully expressed by my friend, Mr. Fosdick, of New Orleans. I stand, Mr. President, and members of this Co n venti on, upon the platfo rm of immediate and uinconditional abolition ot slavery. And now. in performance of my duty to my God, to my country and to my fellowman, I cast and record my vote-" yes!" Mr. ABELL-That is the most illiberal act that has ever been permitted in this Ho -se. It is a disgrace to the House to permit such remarks on this floor [Mr. Abell was called to order and took his seat.] Mr. ENNIS —I vote aye on the adoption of the two first sections of the majority report of the Committee on Emancipation. [The minutes as amended'were then adopted.] Mr. WILSON- -I move to adjourn till Mon The secretary read the minutes of the previous day's proceedings.] SMr. BoFILL —Before the minutes are adopted, Mr. President, I wish to change my vote on the report of the Committee on Emancipation. I voted no, but should not have done so had I been aware that the resolution of Mr. Cazabat had been adopted, but having learned that fact, I desire to change my vote to yes. [Permission was given by the Convention without objection.] and those who have not voted on the ques- Mr. HILLS —I demand the ayes and nays~~~~~~~~~ forth by Mr. Bofill. [No objection was made, and the vote was changed.] Mr. CA.MPBELL-I wish to explain my vote of yesterday. I voted no on both sections as a whole, but if the two had Ien separated, after the first had been adopted by so decided a majority, I should have voted aye on the second. Mr. BENNIE-I vote aye on the motion to reject the minority report of the Committee on Emancipation. Mr. CAZABAT-Mr. President, we have witnessed in this very hall, and upon this very floor, the dying struggles and the agonizing convulsions of slavery; but, thank God! the minority report, the offspring of narrowmindedness and prejudice, has been voted down, and the sacred cause of eternal truth and justice and human freedom has prevailed. Louisiana stands now foreverfree and redeemedl by the voice of her people —by the voice of her noble and worthy sons, such as young Wells of Rapides, Taliaferro of Catahoula, and Edwards of Avoyelles. Immor 29 lost.] Mr. ABEL1_-Mr. Piesident, I rise for the purpose of asking to be excused from servi ng on the select committee appointed by the chair on yesterday, to correspond with Congress relative to compensation for emancipated slaves, and I desire, sir, to offer my reasons for doing so. Yesterday this Convention passed an ordinance in most indecent haste, without permit t ing any argument for o r a g ainst it. by which we have attempted to give away more than one hundred and fifty millions of property belonging to other people; an act which, sir, will at least entitle us to the reputation of being the pnost liberal givers of other men's property on record, and that, too, sir, without their consent. I think, sir, that to ask Congress to pay for property of loyal owners after this Convention has so freely wrested it from them, will be a great condescension of this body, and subject it to the contempt of Congress, and would amount at best to a mere blind in order to disappoint, mislead and deceive 225 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION the people that they have ruined, by holding out-to them false hopes which every one knows will never be realized. Sir, if we intend to act in good faith and deal justly and fairly with the people of the State of Louisiana, let us make a clause in the constitution by which the emancipation act shall take effect so soon as provisions can be made by State and Congress fbr compensation, and then the committee would be in a position to demand compensation and the slaveholders to expect it, before they are despoiled of their property. Mr. President, under all circumstances in life I have endeavored to deal candidly with all men, and under no circumstances would I now participate in any a ct th at I think would have a tendency to t antalize, mislead or deceive the great people of Louisiana, whom I a m sent he re to represent; and such, sir, I believe would be the effect of any action the commi ttee could take under the circumstances. I think, sir, it would be adding the grossest insult to the greatest injury. For these, sir, an d ma ny othe r re as ons, whi ch I will not detain the Convention to enumerate, I ask to be excused from the committee. Mr. Bo.'zA-o —I move that the gentleman's request be granted. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDEdNr —The chair appoints in his place Mr. Ariail. Mr. HEARD-Your Committee on Preamble, to whom was referred -.he substitute of Mr. Cazabat, upon examination of the minutes, find that the original report has already been adopted, and consequently that the matter has passed beyond the control of this committee, and beg leave to report back M.. iazabat's substitute. Mr. CAZXBAT-With your permission, Mr. President, I withdraw the substitute. PRESIDENT-'If there is no objection, it can be withdrawn. Mr. STOCKER-I object. PRESIDErNT-It is not withdrawn, then. Mr. THORPE -As chairman of the Committee on Enrollment,'i would report as correctly enrolled the following bill: AN ORDINANCE TO ABOI.SH SLAVERY AND IN VOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do hereby declare and ordain as fbllows: Section 1. Slavery and involuntary servitude, except-as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, are hereby forever abolished and prohibited throughout the State. Sec. 2. The Legislature shall make no law recognizing the right of property in ,man. Adopted in Convention, at the City of New Orleans, on this eleventh day of May, in the year one thousand eight hundred and sixty-four, and the eighty-eighth of the Independence of the United States of America. Mr. THOMAS-I would call attention to the Ifact that the words "of our Lord " are left out of the latter part of the bill, as it was adopted, and I therefore move that it be referred back, and that the committee be instructed to enroll it exactly as it was adopted. Mr. SHAw-We certainly adopted no formula, and none is necessary. Mr. THoMAs-It may not be necessary, but we adopted it. If-it had not been in the report I shbuld not have moved to refer it back. Mr. HILLS-I seconded the motion to refer back, because I believed that in a matter of such grave moment the utmost solemnity should be used. Mr. THORPE-Mr. President, I am willing to have the bill re-enrolled, but it seems to -me that the gentleman is certainly mistaken about our having adopted any particular formula, but, sir, more than this, a motion was carried to strike out everything after the second section. Mr. STOCKER-I agree entirely with the gentleman on my right. I rose to attempt to call the attention of the Convention to that fact some time ago. There is no question about it; we voted to strike out all after the second article; that of course included the formula which it is claimed was not correctly enrolled, and which is in reality a part of the fifth article. Mr. WILSoN —I disagree with the gentleman. I think that it is entire in itself, and distinct from any of the articles, and I coincide with Mr. Thomas in desiring to have 226 11 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. it exactly in the language of the original report. [The motion to refer back was then put and carried.] Mr. BELL-I move that the other resolution be received and signed by the president. PRESiDEN-r-On the committee respecting the circulation of city money, the chair appoints Messrs. Purcell, Fosdick, Stauffer, Bofizano and Brott. [The secretary read the following communication from the auditor of public accounts: office of S. H. Torry, former auditor, as shown by his books................... $702,645 53 Total amount of disbursements during the same period.... 330,052 70 Leaving on March 9, 1864, a surplus in the treasury, of current funds, of.......... 372,592 83 And of "Confederate" notes o of..................... 462,752 13 Making the total amount. $835,344 96 STATEMENT A. Showing the various sources of revenue, and the funds to which the receipts were credited.!. GENERAL FUND. Confederate notes received from former treasurer..... $462,752 13 Received as auction duties... 57,516 31 Received as State tax proper. 246,038 03 Received as licenses on trades, etc.............. 198,298 50 Received for redemption of * lands.................... 387 32 Received fromohr redemptio of 101 STATE AUDITOR'S REPORT. STATE OF LOUISIANA, AUDITOR'S OFFICE,? New Orleans, May 11, 1864.. To the president and members of the State Constitutional Convention: In compliance with the resolution of your honorable body, "relative to the auditor, of public accounts," adopted on the 18th of April, 1864, I have the honor to submit the following report, showing as fully and minutely in detail as the books and papers in possession of this office enable me to do, the receipts and disbursements of public moneys during the administration ofBrigadier General George F. Shepley, late military governor of the State of Louisiana. Your resolution was not received at this office until the 4th instant, which is the reason of my not complying with it sooner. On entering upon the duties of auditor, on the 4th of March, 1864, the former aud-, tor, Mr. S. H. Torry, reftised to transfer the books, vouchers, documents, &c., of the office to my possession, representing to me that he was acting under orders of the ex-mnilitary governor, Gen. Shepley; biut possession was subsequently taken without the general's consent. Mr. Tprry's books, exhibit the accounts of the State up tc F March 9th; consequently this report presents the financial condition of the State on that date. Amount received by T. C. A. Dexter, late State treasurer, from his predecessor in office, said amount being deposited in the Louisiana State Bank, in "Confeder ate" notes................ $462,752 13 There being no information in this office as to what se veral funds this amount be longs, I have placed it to the account of " General Fund." (See Statement A.) Total amount of receipts by the State during the term of Rciefrom foterig u o treasures. o u. 4675,8 13 Total.............. $968,802 43S The $cv10 14 mentionedutiabove was received as follows, via: From Capt. Nor2 cross, for mess-plates furnished by the State to the Louisiana volunteers, and afterwards turned over to the United States government, $169 14. From U. D. Terrebonne, sealer o f weights and measures for the Second and Third Districts of New Orleans, ibr fines collected, $39. Froma Joseph Hernandez, former State tax collector of the Second District of New Orleans, amount refunded to the Statefor expenses of reorganizing the office of State tax collector of the Second District of New Orleans, in consequence of the destruction of the records of the office, $454. From Moses Bates, financial agent, State Penitentiary, a draft endorsed by Gen. B. F. Butler and Gen. Shepley, in Dtvor of T. C. A. Dexter, treasurer, $3148. SCHOOL FUND. Received as mill tax..........$147,609 89 Received as poll tax.......... 11,995 00 Total............... $159604 89 INTERNAL ~5960 8MRVEET9UD INTERNA.L IMPROVEMENT I'~D. Received as internal improve ment tax...................$36,990 34 STATEMENT B. Showing the disbursements.from the treas Aury during the term of office of S. H. Torry,former auditor, as exhibited by his books and vouchers: 227 i I — DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION fore the charge for such services as above mentioned is unjust and illegal. It appears also by warrant No. 4, that the Hon. R. K. Howell was allowed to draw salary from the State treasury, as Judge of the Sixth District Court, from the first of April, 1862, which was twenty-six days before the arrival of the United States forces, and seventy-one days before the promulgation by Gen. Butler, commanding the department, of general orders No. 41, by -which the Judge could have restored his status as i loyal citizen. So much of his salary as was paid Ior services rendered prior to that order was paid to a public judicial officer of a government in rebellion to the United States. A similar instance to this is the payment to the Hon. A. M. Buchanan of the sum of $3750 for salary as Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, from July 1st, 1862, to March 31st, 1863. Judge Buchanan was a member of the Supreme Court of Louisiana previous to the secession of the State. - In my opinion, rebellion had terminated the existence of that court, and it had to be reorganized under appointments made by loyal military power, or by an election by the loyal people, before it could again exist. Judge Buchanan did not draw his salary accruing previous to July lst, 1862. If he was legally entitled to draw salary subsequent to that date, he was also entitled to his arrears of salary prior to that date. The Hon. Charles A. Peabody was appointed by Gen. Shepley, late military gov ernor, to the offie of chief justice of the Supreme Court. At the time of, and ever since the appointment, Judge Peabody was holding an office (that of provisional judge of the United States District Court) under the Federal government, and so, according to the provision of the constitution of Louisiana (article 99,) he was ineligible to the appointment in question. Other persons were appointed by the late military governor as associate justices, who declined to accept, so that no Supreme Court was organized, and no judicial services were or could have been rendered by Judge Pea body as a State judge. Notwithstanding these facts, he was permitted by the late auditor to draw from the State treasury, on account of salary, and for which the State had received no equivalent, the sum of $3541 66. It appears also from warrants on file in this office, that the sum of $2500 was drawn three several times, making $7500, in favor of the late military governor, purporting to be for "contingent expenses of the Executive Department," for which there are no vouchers of the details, or items of that expenditure, as required by law; but vouchers are on file for bills of contingent As salaries in executive depart ment..................... As contingent expenses of ex ecutive department......... As office expenses........... As general contingent expenses As salaries in auditor's office... As salaries in treasurer's office. As salaries of judges......... As salaries of state attorneys.. As salaries of clerks of courts. As expenses of State library... As commissions to tax collectors As compensation of assessors.. As expenses of State Peniten tiary..... For different charitable institui tions...................... For Louisiana volunteers...... For printing and advertising.. For registry of voters......... For expenses of elections...... For State coupons............ To Capt. Hawes, A.Q.M.,U.S.A. FROM THE SCHOOL FUND. To city o f N ew Orleans f or the public schools.............. $78,870 57 To city of New Orleans for the schools of free colored chil dren, by order of Gov. Shep ley........................ 1,000 00 To the parish of Jefferson...... 3,061 95 FRO)I THE INT\ERNA'L IMPROVEMENT FUND. (The re have been no disbursements.) It ma y b e pr oper for me to observe that in regard to certain payments out of the State treasury during the administration of the late military governor, much irregularity seems to have existed. Warrants have been drawn on the t reasury, and public moneys paid on account of salaries and services never actually earned or performed. As an instance of this kind, I would call attention to the fact that three warrants, numbered 75, 167 and 271, were drawn by the late auditor on the treasurer, each of such warrants purporting on its face to have been drawn for the salary of one Willham B. Lowe, as clerk in the office of the said auditor from October 1st, 1862, to March 9th, ]864, amounting in all to the sum of. $2883 33, and which sum was paid out of the State treasury. I am informed, by testimony that I deem reliable, that said William B. Lowe was not at any time employed as clerk in the office of the auditor, there 228 ,FRO)i TIIE C.ENERAT, FUND. $9,816 66 7,500 00 2,478 55 3,699.29 8,811 66 6,501 27 43,127 73 3,063 94 . 964 90 1,985 00 39,171 47 19,677 86 .14,249 29 24,539 98 1,069 88 6,358 40 2,724 00 3,176 50 48,510 00 2,693 80 Total disbursements from gen eral fund.................. $247,120 18 I Total disbursements from school fand....................... $82,.932 52 -,T - P" AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF DOUISIANA. Powers were finally adopted. They were passed on their first reading; butthe point I wish decided is, whether they came under the rule, and subsequently passed, that nothing should be finally adopted until it had been read three several times on separate days. Mr. ABELL —I shall move that these reports be read a second and third time in the same manner as the other reports. PRESIDENT —The report of the Committee on Preamble and that on Distribution of Powers, passed their third reading long ago. Mr. H:EA.RD-As chairman of that committee, I would state that we reported the preamble on the tenth day of the session. [The secretary read the minutes relative thereto, showing that these reports were adopted on their first reading.] Mr. HILLS-It appears from the minutes that the report of the Oommittee on Preamble was read and adopted on its presenta tion, and so, also, that of the Committee on Distribution of Powers. What I wish to know is, whether, under the prese nt r ules of the Convention, these were, or were not, fin all y passed upon. Mr. CUTLER —I rise for the purpose of sug gesting that th e language of the consti tu - tion of 1852 be followe d exactly in the pre amble, leaving out the words " and recom mend its adoption." Mr. HEARD-These wor ds were not in tended to be incorporated in the constitu tution, but are merely an expression of -the committee recommending the adoption of the preamble which we report. [The report was adopted.] Mr. HILLS-Mr. President, I would now call for the secon d reading of the reportdof the Committee on Distribution of Powers. PRESIDENT-That cannot be taken up under the rules we have adopted until the other is disposed of. Mr. STOCKER-I rise to inquire whether -either of these reports has been adopted as a part of the constitution? PRESIDENT-They have not. Mr. ABELL-I move to amend PRESIDENT-YOU are out of order. Mr. Ms~rz-lr. President, I would like to know if it can be put upon its third reading without a sulspension of the rules. If not, expenses of the governor's office, which bills are charged to the account of "office expenses," which account appears to contain the legitimate contingent expenses of the several departments of State. Several thousand dollars were also drawn during the same period, as salaries of several gentlemen as' officers of the State, who were at the same time commissioned officersr of the United States army, and receiving pay in both capacities. The account of $2698 80 paid to Capt. Hawes, A. Q. M., U.S. A., was in reimbursement of money collected by the former auditor, of George E. Tyler, as auction duty on certain sales made by him of United States property, which property, by the law of this State, was exempt from duty. The money was returned to the United States government by order of Governor Shepley. The returns made to this office by J. M. Serpas, sheriff and tax collector tor the parish of St. Bernard, show that he has still in his hands the sum of $2421 24 in Confederate notes, received by him in payment of taxes for the year 1861, previous to the occupation of the State by the Feder al authorities. I await the direction of competent authority to decide what disposition shall be made of these notes, and whether or not Mr. Serpas, having received them in payment of taxes when the State was in rebellion, and they were by the rebel laws legal tender, shall be relieved of so much of his liability to the State. Respectfully submitted, A. P. DOSTIE, Auditor. Mlr. Hills, during the reading of the re port, moved that the reading of the items of the report be dispensed with.] Mr. STOCKER-Mr. President, I shall cer tainly object. I believe the items are the most important part of the report. Mr. AUSTIN —I move to refer the report to a special committee of five. Mr. MENDIVERRI —I move that one thou sand copies be printed. [The motion of Mr. Mendiverri was car ried.] PsESIDEINT-A committee of fives-how to be appointed? Mr. AusTm-By the president. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT-We come now to the order of the day. Mr. HILLS —I should like to inquire now, whether the report of the Committee on Preamble and that on the Distribution of 229 DEBATES IN THE COMONETION FOR THE REVISION Bromley, Buckley,Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S.,'Schroeder,' Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, and Wilson-76.] Mr. PURSELI-I move that the report of the Committee on Emancipation be placed as title II, articles 3 and 4. Mr. BONZANO —I move th-Lt it be placed at the head of the constitution as an ordinance without numbering. Mr. ABELL —— I move that that report be made the order of day for next Wednesday Mr. PUS-ELL —I withdraw my motion.. PRESIDE.XT-DO you not think it would be more judicious to leave the arrangement of the parts until you decide on the whole? Mr. HILLS-I move that the further arrangement of articles be postponed until all 'is decided upon. iThe motion was carried.] Mr. ABELL —I move that the second reading of the report of the Committee on Legislative Department be postp nel urtil Tuesday next, at 1 o'clock. [The motion was cart -.[. [A motion to adjourn till 12.M., Tiuesday, May 17th, was then carried.] TUESDAY, May 17, 1864. [At the usual hour the Convention was called to order by the chair, and upon calli ng the roll the following members were found to be present: Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Balch, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Burke, Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Hart, ,Henderson, Hills, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Millspaugh, Montague, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, Pintado, Pturcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Wenck, Wells, Wilson, an d Mr. President —-54. There being no quorum, the sergeant-atarms was dispatched to bring in members, I move to suspend the rules, in order to take up th# report and pass it to its third reading. [The mo tion w as carried, and the rule s susp e nded, sixty members vo ting in the affirmative. The report was read.] Mr. MANt I move its adoption. Mr. HEdwDERSON —As this is the third reading, I move the previous question. [The motion was carried by a vote of 64. The main question was then put, with the following result: YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Bailey, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, PEBD ke, Campbell, Cazabat, Collin, Cook J. K.. Cook T., Crozat, Cutler. Decker, Dufresne, Dupaty, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, F oley, Fo sdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Har t, Healy. Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Ma M nMaas, Mann, Marer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newe l l, Normad, O'Conner, Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder n ur a, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stockerf,Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro. T horpe, Th oma s, Wa t ers, Well s,. Wenck, Wilson-79. N.LYs-None. The report was adopted.] PRESIDE,NT-I a ppoint Messrs. Beauvais, Austin, Thomas, Fish and Wells as committee on communication from the auditor. Mr. HILLS-I call for the second reading of the report on Distribution of Powers. [The report was read.] Mr. HENDEO-ON-I move to suspend the rules and pass it to its third reading. [The motion was carried and the secretary read the report.] Mr. HiLIs-I move it be adopted and enrolled as title first, articles i and 2 of the constitution. [The secretary proceeded to call the yeas and nays.] Mr. STOCKER —I want to know whether I am voting to place the report on Distribution of Powers before the preamble. PRESIDENT-The preamble is never numbered. Mr. STOCKER-Then I vote " yes.' [The result was as follows: YEAs —Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Beau vais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, 230 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 231 and after some delay, the following members having taken their seats, viz: Messrs. Austin, Bailey', Baum, Bromley, Buckley, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cutler, Dupaty, Fuller, Healy, Howell, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Poynot, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan and Thomas —25, The secretary proceeded to read the minutes of the previous day's session.] Mr. MONTA(GUE-I have been absent, Mr. President, unavoidably, for some days, and desire to record my vote on the emancipation question. On the motion to reject the minority report of the Emancipation Committee, I vote yes. On the adoption of the first and second sections of the majority report, I vote yes. Mr. HOWELL-Mr. President, I have been absent several days. My signature to the report is, I presume, a sufficient vindication of my opinions, but I desire to record my vote, and if allowed, would like to vote on each proposition separately. Mr. HiLLS-I move that he be permitted. Mr. HOWELL-On the motion to reject the minority report, I vote yes. On the adoption of the first and second sections of the majority report, I vote yes. Mr. SEYMOUR-I was sick with chills and fever when the vote was taken on the adoption of the first two sections of the majority report. I vote yes. Mr. STAIFFER-I think the gentleman was here, or some one answered for him. Mr. STOCKER —I recollect distinctly having heard some answer when the gentleman's name was called. Mr. SEYMOUR —I was sick and was not in the Convention. -Mr. BALCH —I vote upon both sections without any explanations, except that I vote conscientiously. I vote' no." SECRETARY-Mr. Balch has already voted. Mr. BALCU —It is a mistake. I was not present when the vote was taken. SEcrcETA.r —-You are recorded as having voted "no." Mr. HE-,lDERSON —-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer. I desire that it may be read and lie over under the rules: Whereas, It has been the invariable custom of every Legislature of the State to make liberal appropriations from the gen Orleans............. $1500 For the St. Mary's Catholic Orphan Boys' Asylum in New Orleans,... 4000 For the Female Orphan Asylum, Camp Street,................... 4000 For the House of the Good Shep herd,......................... 250 For the Jewish Widows' and Or phans' Asylum................. 500 For the St. Joseph Catholic Orphan Asylum,....................... 1500 For the St. Elizabeth House of In dustry,........................ 1000 For the Society for the relief of the Orphan Boys, Fourth District,.... 1000 For the Institution for Indigent Col ored Boys,-Third Di strict,........ 1000 For the Ladies of Provide nce, Third District........................ 750 For St. Anna's AsylumTor Destitute I Wi dows a nd Children,........... 1500 For the Children'sHome of th e Protestan t Episcopal Ch urch.... 500 F or th e Ca tho lic In stitute of De sti tute Orphans,...........cs w s 750, Fo r the Cth holic penevolent Associ n ation, Baton Rouge,............ 250 For the Female Orphan Asylum, Baton Rouge,................. 500 For the St. Vincent-Orphan Asylum, Donaldsonv ill e,................ 500 For the Milne Asylum, New Orleans, 500 Total,................. $21),000 And, whereas, In consequence of the calamities, g rowing out of the rebellious war now prevailing, which has not onlv dried up to a great extent the sources of pr i vat e benev olen ce and diminished t heir revenues to almost nothing, but has been the means of greatly increasing their burdens by the addition it has made to the list of orphans, indigent widows, and the destitute of all classes who stand in the need of charity, so that the worthy, patient and self-sacrificing sisters and managers of these heavenly-endowed institutions are reduced to the great est distress to provide food and raiment for the thousands of helpless beings under their charge; and were it not for the bounty of the Federal government, through its officers of this department, in donating them daily army rations for their support, many of them would be compelled to close their doors; be it therefore Resolved, That the sum of $20,000 be DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION of the debates of the Convention, in book form, in English and French, printed in brevier, and composed with the matter published in the journal, the pages to be seventy-one lines in length, including the title, the blank line under the title, and the foot line, and forty ems in width-the books to be stitched and bound in the same manner as law books —five dollars will be allowed for each page, and for every two hundred co pies after the first two hundred, four dollars per page. 2. For all documents, reports or other matter printed in book or pamphlet form, in English or French, composed in bourgeois, the pages to be of the same length and breadth as the journal —-five dollars per page for the first two hundred copies, and for every additional two hundred copies four dollars per page. 3. For resolutions, memorials or reports of committees, printed on foolscap, or simillar sized paper, in English or French, coinmposed in bourgeois type, thirty-six ems wide and ninety-five lines in length, for the first two hundred copies, eight dollars per page, and for each additional hundred copies four dollars per page. 4. For all matter marked "official," and published in the official journal, one dollar per square for the first insertion, and fifty cents for each subsequent insertion. The square being considered in size equal to ten lines in agate type. Your committee would respectftilly state, i n conclusion, that they have based their report, and fixed the prices as above stated, upon the increased high prices of paper, labor and printing material. All of which is respectfully submitted. JOHN PURCELL, Chairman. JOHN T. BARRETT, JAMES FULLER. tion. Mri. FoLEY —-I have a resolution J eo off er Where as, Several members of th e Louisiana Constitutional Convention have been elected as deleg ates to Baltim o re:s and. whereas, it is vitally im porta nt to the interests of Louisiana tha t the Convention should complete its work without adjournment; therefore, Be it R esolved, That t he membe rs of this Convention, who are elected to the Baltimore C o nvention, and wh o ch oose t o go three, shall resi gn their seats in t his C onvention immediately, and the go vernor be requested to issue his proc lam ation for an election to fillo the vacancies in the different parishes and representative districts so vacated. Mr. MONTAAT-I do not believe any gentleman has a right to say that members sh all resign. We may requeat members t o resign, but w e have no right to d irect it. I move a suspension of the rules in order to act up on the resolution immediately. [The motion was lost.] Mr. PURSELL-I move that the report of the Committee on Printing, presented some time ago, be taken up. The compensation of all the officers, except the public printer, has been fixed, and I think it is time for us to take that up now. Mr. HENDERSON —I think myself that it is right and proper that we suspend the rules to take up that report at once, and I move a suspension of the rules in order to take it up. PRESIDENT-There is no occasion to sus pend the rules; it is part of the regular business. [Secretary read the report.] To the president and members of the Louisi ana State Cbnvention: Your Committee on Printing, after mature deliberation, beg leave to submit the follow ing rates of comapensation to the official printer of this Convention: 1. For two hundreds copies of the journal Mr. THoMAs —I move the adoption of the report. Mi. CAMPBELL-I rise for information. It strikes me that this report provides for the payment of five dollars per page for the books; that would make, if the books should contain six hundred pages, three thousand dollars a copy, not five dollars a copy. I take it as it reads: I don't know what it means; but we should be careftil before we vote away two or three millions for printing a few books, and find out what we are doing. Mr. HILLS —Mr. President, I am not a member of the Committee on Printing, but having graduated as a printer's devil some years ago, claim to have some knowledge of these matter* The report is very plain I God — l 1S 232 and is hereby appropriated from the genefal fund for the support and relief of the charitable institutions as named in the foregoing schedule, to be divided according to the amounts therein stated, and to be paid in the usual manner, by warrants from the auditor on the- Treasurer, in favor of the managers and authorized agents of said institutions. Laid over until to-morrow. Mr. M. W. MuRPHY-1 second the resolu AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. and simple. It simply means that for the' May 10 —Paid warrant No. 30... 3,500 00 first two hundred copies five dollars per May 14 —Paid warrant No. 31... 2,520 00 May 14 —Paid warrant No. 32...1,275 00 page shall be paid: that is, that if the book May 15-Paid warrant No. 34... 1,420 00 shall contain two hundred pages, the first two hundred copies will cost one thousand $12,764 00 dollars- May 17 —Balance on hand this dollars — day.................... $55,485 40 Mr. CAMPBELL-It does not say so. day$5,485 40 Mr. HILLS-And the next two hundred $68.231 40 copies will cost eight hundred dollars. And REPORT ON THE FUNDS FOR CONTINGENT 1 wish to say. Mr. President; that I do not EXPENSES. regard these rates as in any manner exor- May 15 —Paid warrant No. 33 to Mr. DeCoursey, as per bitant, and I for one will vote for the re- to Mr. DeCoursey, as per voucher No. 4............ $1,747 37 port, for I know that the present exorbitant May 17 —Balance on hand to date 9,585 48 rates of printers' wages and increased cost of material fully justify the rates proposed. $11,332 85 I think it just and right, and shall vote for [The report was adopted without objec ~~~~~~~~~it. ~tion. Mr. AUSTIN —I move the previous ques- The report of the Committee on the Letion. gislative Department being the order of Mr. CAMPBELL-I cannot take a man's the day, was then taken up.] meaning unless I take what he says. I Mr. SULLIVAN —-Mr. President, I have an therefore move to refer the report back to amendment to offer to the 33d lie. the committee. I don't object that the Mr. STAUFFER-The gentleman is out of price is too great, but I want the report to order. We have not yet reached that secbe made intelligible. tion. Mr. BUCKLEY-Five dollars per page is [The secretary read the first article: five dollars for a page of type, not for each Art. 1. The legislative power of the ~~printed page.~ ~ State shall be vested in two distinct branch.-ne pag. es, the one to be styled the "House of Re [The previous question was carried. preentatives," the other the "Senate" preventatives," the other the "1Senate," The main question was put, and the report and both the General Assembly of the adopted.] State of Louisiana.] Mr. PURSE,LJ —-I now offer a resolution: Mr. BELL —I move its adoption. Resolved. That all bills of the official [The ayes and nays were called and the printer of this Convention be audited and article carried by the following vote: approved by the Committee on Printing, YEAS —-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin the Committee on Finance, and the Com- Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, mittee on Expenses, in accordance with Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, the rates fixed by the Convention, before Campbell, azaat, Cook J. K., Cook T. Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., payment, and that all bills so audited and Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane approved be paid upon the warrant of the Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flood, president upon the treasurer of the State, Foley Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier out of any moneys not otherwise approprl- Goldman, Healy, Hart. Henderson, Hills, ated. Hire, Howell, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, [On motion, the rules were suspended Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, and the resolution adopted.] Montague, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Mr. MONTAMAT-1 have a report to make Normand, O'Conner, Ong Orr, Payne J., rom the Committee on Finance. Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, ITEP0OT OF, TlE FLINANCE COMMIrrTEE OF THE SSmith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, CON-STITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF THE FUNDS Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, APPROPRIATED FOR THE PAYMENT OF PER Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —-78. DIEM OF MEMBERS AND SALARIES OF OFFI- NAys —None. CEIIS. The secretary read: 1864. Art.-. The members of the House ot May 9 —Paid warrant No.27... $2,930 00 Representatives shall continue in service May 9 —Paid warrant No. 28... 405 00 for the term of two years from the day of May 10 —Pain warrant No. 29... 696 00 the closing of the general elections.] 30 I 233 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION will read "the first Monday after the first Tuesday." [The motion was tabled, and the article adopted, without amendment, by the following vote: YEAs —-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromnley, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Goldman, Hart, Healy, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Morris, MurphyvM. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, O(ng, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —-72. NAYs —-Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Maurer, Montamat, Purcell J., Pursell S. —-6. Mr. HOWELL —I move its adoption, and I now move that in all articles when there is no opposition, the calling of the ayes and noes be dispensed with, and I move a suspension of the rules to act on the motion, if there is, as I have been informed, a rule requiring the vote to be so taken. [The motion to suspend the rules was lost. S ection second was adopt ed by the following vote: YEAS- Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Healy, Hart, Hills, Hire:, Howell, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaiigh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauiffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-76. NiYs —None. The secretary read-the third article: Art. —. Representatives shall be chosen on the first Monday in November every two years; and the election shall be completed in one day. The General Assembly shall meet annually on the first Monday in January, unless a different day be appointed by law; and their sessions shall be held at the seat of government.] Mr. MONTAGUE —-I move to strike out the first Monday in January, and insert first Monday in December. Mr. MONTAM.tT —-I move to strike out first Monday in January, and insert third Monday in January. The first Monday may come on the first day of the year. [The amendments were lost.] Mr. ABELL-I move to strike out first Monday, and insert second Monday. Mr. G.ASTINEL —-I second the motion. - The first Monday is blue Monday. Mr. STOC" ER —I movt sre to s trik e out the words " unless a different day be appointed Secretary read article 4: Art. 4. Ever y duly qualified elect or under this constitution shall be eligible to a seat in the General Assembly: Provided, that no person shall be a representative or senator unless he be, at the time of his election, a duly qualified voter of the representative or senatorial district from which he 'is elected.] Mr. ABELL —-I have an amendment to otffer. Am end so as to re ad: Every qualified elector who shall have attained twenty-four years of age shall be eligible to a seat as representative in the Gener al Assembly, and every qualified elector wllio shall have attained twenty-eight years of age shall be eligible to a seat in the Senate: Provided, that no person shall be a representative or senator unless he be, at the time of his election, a duly qualified voter of the representative or senatorial district from which he is elected. Mr. MONTAMAT-I offer an amendment: "Unless he is a qualified voter and a resident." Mr. MAN —-I move to lay both amendments onlthe table. Mr. MONTAMXT —Mr. President, I object to laying two amendments on the table by one vote. [Mr. Montamat's amendment was then tabled: ayes 46, noes 24. Mr. Abell's amendment was then tabled: ayes 73, noes 6.] Mr. CAZABAT-PI rise, Mr. President, for information. According to our rules no [hby law." i [The motion was tabled.] Mr. PUgSELL --— I move to insert the words "1after the first Tuesday," so that it 2,'3 4 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 235 Mr. ABELL —Mr. President, before proceeding further, I wish to observe that the resolution offered by me required the reports to be taken up section by section, and that they should not be adopted until they had been read on three separate days. It did not require the vote to be taken by ayes and noes. [The secretary read the sixth article.] Art. 6. Representation in the House of Representatives shall be equal and uniform, and shall be regulated and ascertained by the number of qualified electors. Each parish shall have at least one representative. No new parish shall be created with a territory less than six hundred and twenty-five square miles, nor with a numbe r of e lectors l ess than the fill number entitling it to a representative; nor when the crea ti on o f such ne w parish would leave any other parish without the said extent of territory and number of electors. The first enumeration by the State authorities, under this constitution, shall be ma de in the year one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six; the second i n the ye ar one thousand eight hund red and seventy; the third in the year one thousand eight hundred and seventy-six, after which time the General Assembly shall direct in what manner the census shall be taken, so that it be made at least once in every period of ten years for the purpose of ascertaining the total population, and the number of qualified electors in each parish and election district; and in case of informality in the census returns from any district, the Legislature shall order a new census taken in such parish or election district. At the first session of the Legislature after the making of each enumeration, the Legislature shall apportion the representation amongst the several parishes and election districts on the basis of qualified electors as aforesaid. A, representative number shall be fixed, and each parish and election district shall have as many representatives as the aggregate number of its electors will enititle it to, and an additional representative for any fraction exceeding one-half the representative number. The number of representatives shall not be more than one hundred and twenty, nor less than ninety, until an apportionment shall be made, and elections held under the same, in accordance with the first enumeration to be made, as directed in this article. The representation in the Senate and House of Representatives shall be as fol lows: For the parish of Orleans, forty-four representatives, to be elected as follows: l esstone-ir than one-fifth of th e memb er s c an call for the ayes and noes. I am not aware that any resolution has bee n passed requiring the ayes and noes to be called without such a call except on the emancipation question. ir. HILS —My r est io resolution referred only to the quesn ea niation of emancipation; if there is any other resolution requiring the ayes and no es to be c all ed, I am n ot awar e of it. Mr. MONTA.MaT-It was a resolution offered by Mr. Abell. Mr. HENDERSON-It is? [The vot e wa s taken with the following result: YEAs —-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, B el l, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. K., C ook T., t,Crozat e, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Enni s, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Hart. Healy, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspauigh, Mon tague, M orris, New ell, Normand, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purc ell J., Pursell S., Schroeder., S eymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy. Stiner, Sto cker, St umpf, Sta u ffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, W enk, aWells, Wilson —72. NAYs —-,Mlessrs. AbHell, Campbell, Gastinel, Montamat, Mis urphy M. W., O'Con ner, Sullivan —-7. The 4th article was adopted.] [Th e se cretary read the 5th article.] Art. 5. Elections for the members of the Ge neral As sembly shall be held at the several election precincts established by law. Mr. FOLEY —— I move its adoption. [Th e ar ticle was adopted by the follow- I ing vote: YEss —-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Campbell. Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Dupo ty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Goldman, Gruneberg, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Howell, ttowes, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspalugh, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell. Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Voynot, Purcell J.. Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson-80. NAYs —None.] I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION First District.........................5 the First and Fourth Districts of the city of Second do........................ 8 New Orleans shall compose one district Third do........................ 6 and shall elect four senators, and the Se Fourth do........................ 3 cond and Third Districts of said city shall Fifth do........................ 3 compose the other district and shall elect Sixth do........................ 3 three senators. Seventh do........................ 3 The parishes of Plaquemines, St. Ber Eighth do........................ 2 nard and all that part of the parish of Or Ninth do..........................2 leans on the right bank of the Mississippi Tenth do........................ 7 river shall form one district, and shall elect Right bank, Algiers.................2 one senator. The Parish of Livingston............... 1 The parish of Jefferson shall form one do. St. Tammany............ 1 district, and shall elect one senator. do. Pointe Coup4e........... 2 The parishes of St. Charles and La do. St. Martin................ 2 fourche shall form one district, and shall do. Concordia.............. 1 elect one senator. do. Madison................. 1 The parishes of St. John the Baptist and do. Franklin................ 1 St. James shall form one district, and shall do. St. Mary................. 1 elect one senator. do. Jefferson................ 3 The parishes of Ascension, Assumption do. Plaquemines............. I and Terrebonne shall form one district, and do. St. Bernard.............. I shall elect two senators. do. St. Charles............... 1 The parish of Iberville shall form one do. St. John the Baptist....... 1 district, and shall elect one senator. do. St. James................ I The parish of East Baton Rouge shall do. Ascension.............. I1 fofrm one district, and shall elect one sena do. Assumption.............. 2 tor. do. Lafourche............... 2 The parishes of West Baton Rougd, do. Terrebonne............. 2 Pointe Coupde and West Feliciana shall do. Iberville................ 1 form one district, and shall elect two sena do. West Baton Rouge....... I tors. do. East do. do........ 2 The parish of East Feliciana shall form do. West Feliciana.......... i1 one district. and shall elect one senator. do. East do............ i1 The parishes of Washington, St. Tamma do. St. Helena................. 1 ny, St. Helena and Livingston shall form do. Washington............. 1 one district, and shall elect one senator. do. Vermillion............... I1 The parishes of Concordia and Tensas do. Lafayette................ 2 shall form one district, and shall elect one do. St. Landry............... 3 senator. do. Calcassieu.............. 2 The parishes of Madison and Carroll do. Avoyelles.............. 2 shall form one district, and shall elect one do. Rapides................. 3 senator. do. Natchitoches........... 2 The parishes of Morehouse, Ouachita, do. Sabine.................2 Union and Jackson shall form one district. do. Caddo................... 2 and shall elect two senators. do. De Soto................. The parishes of Catahoula, Caldwell and do. Ouachita.............. 1 Franklin shall form one district, and shall do. Union................. 2 elect one senator. do. Morehouse.............. 1 The parishes of Bossier, Bienville, Clai do. Jackson................ 2 borne and Winn shall form one district, and do. Caldwell................. I1 shall elect two senators. do. Catahoula.............. 2 The parishes of Natchitoches, Sabine, De do. Claiborne.............. 3 Soto and Caddo shall form one district, and do. Bossier.................. 1 shall elect two senators. do. Bienville............... 2 The parishes of St. Landry, Lafayette do. Carroll................ 2 and Calcasieu shall form one district, and do. Tensas.................. 1 shall elect two senators. do. Winn.................. 2 The parishes of St. Martin and Vermillion - shall form one district, and shall elect one Total....................118 senator. And the State shall be divided into the The parish of St. Mary shall form one following senatorial districts: All that district, and shall elect one senator. portion of the parish of Orleans lying on The parishes of Rapides and Avoyelles the left bank of the Mississippi river shall shall form one district, and shall elect two be divided into two senatorial districts; senators. 236 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Mr. ABEL-II move to strike out, in the twenty-first line, "the number of electors," and insert'; population. [The motion was laid on the table.] Mr. ABELII- move to strike out "three," in the apportionment of the Fifth Representative District, and insert "five," as we cast about 600 votes, nearly as many as in any other district. Mr. FOSDICK-I would like to say a few words in regard to changing the basis of representation. We provided only for the first election, and in doing so thought it was right to adopt that basis fixed by the authorities calling this Convention, and reduce proportionately the number of electors in both city and country. If gentlemen will look a t the ma tter, they will find a deduction in exact proportion. Mr. MONTAMAT-The Fifth District is one of the l argest in the city of New Orleans. We cast 600 votes in the last election, an d are entitled to more tha n the apportion ed number of electors. Mr. ABELLIThe gentlemen opposed to me have voted nine t ime s to reject my amendments, and consider the number of electors rather t han t he nu mber of th e populati on. I have no objec tion; and, in fact, call upo n the Convention to say that the po or negro shall be represented, and have endeavored, with all the power I possess, to induce them to allow it. I am looking to the future —am not t h inking of to-day only, but for the n ext gener ation —-and if this Convention h as power to tree the negro, it is right for i t to pr ovide for their erepresentation, though they have nine times voted not to do so. What do they mean by it? Do they mean to say that the representation should be governe d by the electors? In the Fifth Representative D istrict —the centre and government of New Orleans —-we have 600 electors, and yet gentlemen wish to say that district shall only have three representatives. I want the Convention to take some position and stand by it, for, otherwise, we shall become a laughing-stock. I claim it as a right that we should have the representatives ot the Fifth District increased to five. at least. Mr. SEAw —I agree with the last gentleman in some of his remarks. It is hard, at The House of Representatives shall choose its speaker and other officers. Every white male who has attained the age of twenty-one years, and who has been a resident of the State twelve months next preceding the election, and the last six months thereof in the parish in which he offers to vote, and who shall be a citizen of the United States, and able to read and write, shall have the right of voting. The Legislature shall have power to pass laws extending suffrage to such other persons, citizens of the United States, as by military service, by taxation to support the government, or by intellectual fitness, may be deemed entitled thereto. No voter, on removing from one parish to another within the State, shall lose the right of voting in the former until he shall have acquired it in the latter. Electors shall in all rases, except treason, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at, going to, or returning from elections. Mr. ABELI-I move to amend by striking out the words "number of electors," in the fifth line, and inserting the words " white population," and the same in the eighth line, and whenever the words " number of electors" occurs in the article. It strikes me that the number of electors in the several parishes is not just. The language of the constitution of 1852 is " the total population," and therefore I propose this amendment. [The motion was seconded.] Mr. GOLDM.AN-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was carried.] Mr. ABELL-I offer to amend by striking out all after the word " district," in the sixteenth line, to the end of the eighteenth line, as superfluous. Mr. HILLS-I move t o l ay i t on the table. [The motion was carried.] Mr. ABELL-I move to strike out, in the twenty-first line, " qualified electors "7 and insert' total population." Mr. GOLDM'AN-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was carried.] Mr. AB.LLI move to strike out " the," in the twenty-third line, and insert " its." Mr. HiLLS-As I have a respect for the English language, I move to lay that amendment on the table. [The motion was carried-] 237 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION seven representatives apportioned to it, and I should like to have some gentleman from the Tenth tell us what was the vote of that District in the election of February 22d. Mr. ORR —-It was 1008. Mr. HILLS-That is less than 100 over those cast in the Third District, to which is given six representatives, while the Second District, which casts 675 votes, sends eight representatives. Now, Mr. President, I think that the just basis to be adopted in fixing the relative representation of the districts and wards of the State will be found by consulting the returns of our most recent State elections; and I believe that every member here is perfectly willing to do justice in this matter to the fifth, second, and every other ward. I differ with my friend from the fifth in respect to the right of making the number of electors the basis, and think that having it we should adhere to it. As this is a question of much importance, I move that the secretary of this Convention be instructed to bring in, at the next session, the election returns of this parish for February 22d and March 28th, and read them for the information of this body. Mr. MANN —I amend and offer to include the returns of all the parishes. [The amendment was accepted and the motion carried. On motion the Convention then adjourned till 12 M. to-morrow.] basis of representation, and that difficulty arose in calling this Convention, for there was no basis to calculate upon except the census of 1860, and even that was not giv en to us in i rdetail, so that we were onl y abl e t o a rrive at the aggregate population of each p arish. The sub-divis ions of th e parish of Orleans could not be ascertained; and, as far as I know-unless some one is able to find the o riginal tensus records of 1860-we are unable to determine the population of the different wards and representative districts. At the time of calling this Contentfion, I myself took some pains to find out but failed; though if any one can obtain this inform ation we ca n perhaps mak e a perfec t a pportionment. In default, t however, of this knowledge, I think the gentleman's objection well taken-that we should not fix t he representation of the Fifth, or any o ther district, by eve n the pres idential electi on of 1860, for great chang es hav e happened s ince then, and the numb er s of electors have been in each district changed. If we adopt the basis upon which this Convention was called, we must adopt an imperfect one. I have not an amendment at hand at this moment which would strike out a better path for accomplishing a correct result; but at the proper time I shall offer one, providing that the electors throughout this State within the Federal lines shall be registered, and that the representation of the parishes and representative districts proceed upon that basis. That will be just, and the Fifth and every other ward will then have its due. Mr. HrLLs —-In regard to the question that the gentleman from the Fifth has raised, I shall be very glad to do justice, so far as the information we have will enable us. It will afford me great pleasure to agree with that gentleman-for whom I have great personal respect —from the fact that we almost always differ. It seems to me, that in fixing the representation we should be governed to a great extent by the elections of February 22d and March 28th, for it would certainly be wrong to fix upon any arbitrary rule with such guiding facts before us. The Third District casts over 900 votes. I see that the Tenth District has WEDNESDAY, May 18, 1864. [At the usual hour the Convention was called to order by the chair, and upon calling the roll the following members answered to their names: Messrs. Abell, Ari%11, Balch. Barrett, Baum, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Burke, Campbell, Duane, Dufresne, Duipaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Henderson, Howell. Howes, Kavanagh, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Montague, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O,'Conner, Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Waters, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President —-52. No quorum being present, the sergeantat-arms was dispatched to bring in absent members. 238 p AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. present, and if so seconded the yeas and nays shall be called. Mr. HOWELL-I have a resolution: Resolved, That the secretary be instruct ed to collect and collate all motions and resolutions heretofore ad opted, as bearing upon the mode of conducting business, or amending the rules and regulatio ns o f thi s Convention, and report to-morrow. Mr. CAZABAT-I move a suspension of the rules for its a doption. [The motion to suspend was lost.] Mr. HENDERSO'N-I call up my resolution of yest e rda y, mak ing a n approp riation for benevolent objects. Mr. STINER-I move the adoption of the resolution. Mr. CAMPBELL-I have a n amendment to offer: Provided, A like sum of $20,000 be and is here by appropriated for the relief of the destitute widows and orphans of the soldiers in the First and Second Louisiana Infantry, First and Second Louisiana Cavalry, and First and Second New Orleans Volunteers. Mr. HENDERS-ON-I move to lay the amendmaent on the table. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move to lay the resol ut ion an d the ame ndment on the table. [The aye and nos a dne wer e called.] Mr. MONTAMAT-I vote yes, because I believe that this body has no right to make such an appropriation. It -is a matter that belongs entirely to the Legislature. Mr. POYNOT-I vote no, becatse I believe that necessity knows no law. Mr. STA-UV:IFER-I vote yes, because I think we have no right to make appropriations of this kind. Mr. WELLS-I am a low-abiding citizen. I believe that we have no legal right to make such an appropriation. I, therefore, vote yes. [The result of the vote was as follows. YEAS- Messrs. Abell,. Austin, Baum, Beauvais, Bennie, Bromley, Brott, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Decker, Dupaty, Ed wards, Ennis, Flagg, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Hills, Hire, Howell, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Mendiverri, Mills paugh, ~Montamat, Montague, Morris, New ell, Normand, Paine J. T., Pintado, Pur sell S.; Seymour, Stauffer, Thomas-38. NA.Ys-Messrs. Balch, Barrett, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Buckley, Cook' J. Id., Cook T., | Crozat, Duane, Dufresne, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, The following members having taken their seats, viz: Messrs. Austin, Bromley, Buckley, Cook J. K., Crozat, Decker, Flagg, Fuller, Gastinel. Healy, hart, Hills, Hire, Knobloch, Kugler, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Morris, Orr, Paine J. T., Poynot, Purcell J., Stocker, Sullivan, Thorpe, Thomas —27, the minutes of the previous day's proceedings were read and adopted.] Mr. HILLs —-Before offering this resolution, if the Convention will pardon me, I will state that I have just received news from Gen. Grant's army to the instant. Gen. Grant was steadily driving the rebels towards Richmond, and four thousand prisoners had already arrived at Washington. I' now offer a resolution: Whereas, The absence of a few members of this Convention at the first roll-call se riously interrupts and retards its business. frequently delaying the commencement of the session for a whole hour after the time fixed for meeting; therefore, Resolved, That any member who is absent without leave or satisfactory excuse at the 12 o'clock roll-call shall forfeit his per diem allowance for every day of such absence. Mr. FOLEY —I move a suspension of the rules in order that it may be acted upon immediately. [The motion to suspend the rules was lost.] Mr. WILSON —I have a resolution to offer: Whereas, The Convention has now performed the heaviest part of the labor for which it was called together; therefore, be it Resolved, That it do adjourn sine die on the first day of June; and that evening sessions be held daily (Sundays excep ted) to the date of adjournment. Mr. PURSEELL —-Mr. President, I have a resoltion to offer: o ffer -v Whereas, The public interest requires that this Convention should not be interrupted in its business without sufficient cause: Resolved, That no motion for an adjournment for a longer time than twenty-four hours shall be put to question unless it be seconded by a majority of the members 23,9 Resolved, That the hoiir of meeting of this Co'nvention in future be 10 o'clock A. m. instead of 12 o,'clock. Mr. BoxzA-.No- I have a resolution to DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Howes, Kavanagh, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Orr, Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wilson-47. The motion was postponed.] Mr. HOWELL —Mr. President, the fact that we are revising and amending the constitution, it seems to me implies the existence of that constitution. I merely desire to call the attention of gentlemen to the first article of that constitution which we are now revising. It reads as follows: " Art. 1. The powers of the government of the State of Louisiana shall be divided into three distinct departments, and each of them be confided to a separate body of magistracy, to-wit: those which are legislalative to one, those which are executive to another, and those which are judicial to another." And then to article 94 of the same constitution. It reads as follows: "Art. 94. No money shall be drawn from the treasury but in pursuance of specific, appropriation made by law, nor shall any appropriation be made for a longer term than two years. A regular statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all public moneys shall be published annually in such manner as shall be prescribed by law." This is the only argument I have to offer against the adoption of this resolution. Mr. HENDERSoSN —I am astonished to see gentlemen here that call themselves human beings, undertake, in this body, by very equivocal legislation, to oppose a measure that calls for support for starving women and children. Sir, suppose the Legislature should pass an act to prohibit me from giving water to a man dying, I would take the ground that the law was unconstitutional and as against humanity, and would not obey it. Shall we let the poor women and children sent to these institutions for protection starve or be turned out in misery and destitution? Such an act would be against humanity. I might answer my friend, Judge Howell's objection to the legality of such action on the part of this body, by referring to our action in fixing the basis of representation, that is assuming legislative power, and we have the sa me right to assume legislative power in t he one instance that we have in A the othe r. Shall we w ait ti ll Jan uary, 1865, before we relieve the wants of thes e starving women and children in fifteen or twenty institutions in this city? -It is against the dictates of justice and humanity. It is one of those cases of necessity which demands prom pt an d i mmediate action, a nd w ill any m an refuse to vote the oe lo n eces sary mon ey for these widows and orphans? The argument that this body has no power to legislate is not good; we have all power. When the constitution is framed and adopted the legislative power will be properly confined to the Legislature, but until then that power is in this body. We are the sovereign people in Convention assembled. We make constitutions, and pur right to make this appropriation is unquestionable. We have a precedent in the convention of Missouri. They submitted nothing to the people, because they knew that the people were at least a majority of them " secesh," and they proceeded to appoint all the officers and carried on the government for near three years, the present governor being an appointee of the convention. Mr. HILLS —Mr. President, it may be that I am not a human being —-the gentleman claims that all who oppose his resolution are not human beings. But human being or not, I will say that that gentleman will never intimidate me from voting exactly as I believe to be right.' ,The gentleman who has just taken his seat is one who has told us from time to time that this was not a legislative body; that we are not a legislature, and cwiseqnently are not invested with legislative powers. I recollect very well that this was the position be assumed when the gentleman from St. Mary's (Mr. Smith) introduced his resolution to compel the capitalists o his section to redeem their bastard currency that they had forced into the hands of the laboring men and mechanics. At the same time I agreed with my friend that the hardworking holders of the stuff ought to have recourse upon the makers to make them redeem it. I was off opinion, as I am now, I 240 4,, AND AMERND T OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 241 Mr. THORP-I would add the St. Vinmcent for a like amount. Mr. MoNTmXT —I move that the Firemen's Charitable Association be added to the list, and that the sum of five thousand dollars additional be appropriated for them. Mr. HOWELL-I would ask if the substi tute of the gentleman from the Second Dis trict is to be put to the House? PRESIDENT —-NO. Mr. HowFLL-I would ask why? I, sir, would go as far as any gentleman, in my views of charity; but I think that charity consists in doing that which we have a right to do. Now I, as an individual, am willing to the extent of my ability; but I am not willing to take the money which does not belong to me or to this Convention, and make a c ha ri table distribution of it. If the money belonged to the members, I would vote for the resolution. If this substitute was to go before the House I would vote for it, and I will say th at if I am entitled to a ny p er di em, I am willing to give half of it. Mr. HILS —I would ask, Mr. President, why the substitute is not to be put to this House? PRESIDENT —-The resolution contemplates the appropriation of money belonging to the State. The substitute proposes a private charity, for the per diem has been appropriated to the members and belongs to them. The appropriation of money belonging to the members has nothing to do with the appropriation of money belonging to the State. Therefore the substitute, being foreign to the matter and substance of the resolution, is out of place, and cannot be put to the lIouse. Mr. SULLIW,VA -I would ask if the Firemen's Charitable Association is included? Mr.'ORu —It is a well-admitted fact that these asylums are the most noble institutions that we have in our country. All the aid that has been afforded them by the United States, the State of Louisiana, and by private citizens, has been as bread thrown upon the waters, and will return fourfold. A gentleman -(Judge Howell) has stated that he cannot vote for this resolution, be cause he is conscientioulsly opposed to it —because it proposes to appropriate the money that we hae e no right to legislat e upon the subject. Having made these remarks, I desire to offer a substitute for the gentleman's resolution: Resolved, That the per diem allowance of the members of this Convention be re duced to four dollars per day, and that a sum equal to the difference between that amount and the present allowance, viz., six dollars.per day, be appropriated to the use of the various charitable institutions of this city. Mr. HFNDERsoN-I move to lay the sub stitute on the table. Mr. Mo.,"rA~To —I do not think this body has power to appropriate money, except to defray its necessary expenses. Mr. ABELL-The objects embraced in the resolution offered by Mr. Henderson are among the most worthy and deserving, and had this Convention the right to make appro priations, except such as are necessary to carry out the object for which it was called, I would willingly vote the appropriation, but believing, as I do, that it is beyond the legitimate sphere of our duties, I shall be compelled to vote against it. ,r. STOCKER —-I am somewhat surprised at the positions assumed by some of the gentlemen. I had supposed that we were the people of Louisiana, in convention asembled; that we had the power to make appropriations or to do anything else we saw fit to do. We are the people, and it seems strange to me that gentlemen learned in the law come up here and tell us we have no power. One gentleman gets up here and refers to the distribution of power in the constitution of'52. I would ask the gentleman where is the Legislature to exercise this power? Why, sir, if necessary, we should stretch our powers a little to meet such a case as this. For one, I am perfectly satisfied that we have the power, and I am willing to take upon myself the reponsibility of voting for the resolution as it now stands. Mr. Bo,%zA-,qo —I move that Marais Street Institution (fifty-four children) be added to the resolution, with an additional appropri"n of five hundred dollars. 31 DE)BATiES IN THIG CO"ENTION FOR THE REVISION [The Convention refused to excuse him.] N Mr. CMPBELL —I vote "no." Mr. FosjDICK —As one of' the oldest fire men in New Orleans, I claim a right to ex plain my reason for voting against the ' amendment. We have no information that they are in need of any such assistance. i They have never asked it, and I am assured s that they have funds and take care of their own widows and orphans; and, therefore, I vote "no."' .Mr. HmLS — deny the right of this Con vention to appropriate anything outside of its own expenses; and, therefore, I shall vote "no;" and I wish my vote, with the reason, to be recorded. Mr. HOWES-I vote "no," for the same reason. Mr. MO.NTAGUE-I look upon these objects as being worthy, but I hold that we have no right to appropriate money for any such purpose. I shall therefore vote for the amendment as a rider to kill the original bill. I vote " yes." Mr. SULLIVAN —[ vote "yes" because I think they are a more worthy association than any other in New Orleans. Mr. THORPE-I vote "no" for the reason that the sum proposed for the Firemen's Association is comparatively large, and they have not asked for anything. Mr. THOMAS-I vote "' yes" for the same reason as Mr. Montague. Mr. WELLS-I don't care about whipping the devil round the stump. I vote "1 no." Mr. T. CooK-I desire to change my vote from " no " to " yes." Mr. HILLs —Mr. President, I desire my vote to stand as it is. [The following is the result of the vote: YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Campbell, Cook T., Crozat, Ennis. Fish, Flagg, Foley, Fuller, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Knobloch, -Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Montague, Morris, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Orr, Purcell J., Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry,Thomas, Waters, Wilson-43. NAYs —Messrs. Ariail, Barrett, Bennie, Bonzano, Burke, Cook J. K., Cutler, Deck er, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Flood, Fos diHk, Gastinel, Gorlinski, GaHry, Healy Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, H~owell, Howell Kavanagh, Kulgler, M{aas, Provided, The destitute widows and orphans of the soldiers who have lost their lives in battle be included. Mr. FOLEY —I should like to know what soldiers he means. Mr. HE:NDERSON —I move to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. CPmBELLI desire to explain. PRESiDE.NT-A motion to lay on the table is not debatable. [The amendment was tabled. Mr. Thorpe's amendment was then put to vote and adopted. Mr. Bonzano's amendment was then adopted. Mr. Montamat's amendment was then put to vote. The ayes and nays were called.] Mr. BELL —I vote for it because I think they are as deserving of it as any other association, and more. Mr. CAMPBELL —I ask to be excused from voting. I was not allowed to explain my amendment, and wish to know if I am obliged to vote on the question. PRP.EsIDFNT —SUch is the rule of the Conlvention. Mr. CAMPBELI-I am the last man that would offer any obstacle to the proceedings of this Convention. I only asked that I might explain why I offered it, and I was denied the privilege, and I certainly do not think any gentleman would ask me to vote on the question. Mr. MoNT.eua —I-move that the gentleman be excused; he was denied the privilege of explaining. 242 AND -AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Mann, Millspaugh, Murphy E., Newell, Nor- Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Goldman, Gorlininand, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell ski, Gaidry, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Stiner, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mayer, MenThorpe, Wells-42. diverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Morris, Mur The amendment was carried.] phy E., Newell, Normand, Orr, Paine I. T., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Smith, Sey [The yeas and nays were then called on P, P o, Psells — the original resolution, as amended.] mour, Stauffer, Thomas, Wels —-51. Mr. BROMLEY-I vote no. Not because The resolution was lost.] Mr. HILIs —If I am in order, I would like I object to these charities, but because I to offer as an oginal resolution the reo to offer as an original resolution the resothink this is not the time nor place. tion which I offered as a substitute. Mr. CAZ.BAT —-I vote no, because we have PRESIDENT-It is not in order nothing to do with that question. [Resolutions of yesterday were then Mr. DuAN-E —-I vote no, because I am op- called up.] called up.] posed to the amendment. Mr. FoiLzY —I call up my resolution: ~Mr. GoRLi —SKI —-I vote no, because it ought r.GORLISKI —Ivotenobecaseitought Whereas, Several members of the Louisto have been referred to a committee to re- I iana Constitutional Convention have been port thereon. elected as delegates to Baltimore; and Mr. ORR —In the name of the widows and whereas, it is vitally important to the inter ests of Louisiana that the Convention should orphans, I vote yes. complete its work without adjournment; Mr. SMITH —I am in favor of the resolu- therefore, tion, believing the Convention has a right Be it Resolved, That the members of this to appropriate money. But I am opposed Convention, who are elected and chosen to and therefore vote no. go to Baltimore, shall resign their seats in to the amendment, and therefore vote no. this Convention immediately, and the gov Mr. STOCXER —I am in favor of the resolu- ernor be requested to issue his pro!!amation, and believe the Convention has a right tion for an election to fill the vacancies in to appropriate money, and am in favor of the different parishes and representative districts so vacated. the amendment. Therefore, I vote yes. Mr. STAUFFER —I shall vote no, on the Mr. THOMAS —I move to lay it on the table. resolution and amendment, because I don't tabl think the people have called us together [The motion was carried by a rising vote of 50 to 16.] for the purpose of legislating, or for any vote of 50 to 16.] other purpose than to revise and amend the Mcl STINER-The yeas and na were constitution. called for before the vote was taken, and constitution. Mr. TERRY —- Believing that the members many members were counted as voting who supposed the secretary was calling the yeas of this Convention stand greatly in need of pod the secretary was calling the yeas the prayers and heart-felt congratulations and nays. PRESIDENT —The call was not heard by of the poor and destitute, and agreeing with PRESIDENTThe call was not hea by the chair. In order to call the yeas and Mr. Orr that the donations of these charities he chair In order to call the yeas and will cover the sins and transgressions of this nays it will be necessary to move a reconConvention, and also believing that we can sideration. donate to others as well as ourselves, I vote Mr. SINR-I ove a reconsideration. ~~yes.~ follows~ ~[The motion was carried. yes. [The esult ofthe ote was as The roll was called, and the motion to (The -result of the vote was-, as follows:~ 1table carried, by the following vote:] YEAs —-Messrs. Barrett, Bell, Bofill, Bon- table carried, by the following vote:] zano, Buckley, Cook T., Crozat, Fish, Flagg, I YAs - Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Baum. Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Grune- Beaurvais, Bennie, Bolfil, Bromley, Burke, berg, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Kav- Cook J. K., Cuitler, Decker, Duane, Dupaty, anagh, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner. Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, FulOrr, Purcell J., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, ler G%tinel Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Hart, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Hlire, Ilowell, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Waters. Wil- Mann, MNendiverri, Millspaugh, Montamat, son-38. Montagule, Morris, Newell, (Qng, Orr, Paine N4Ys —Messrs.Abell,Ariail,Austin,Baum, J. T., Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., SeyBeauvais, Bennie, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, mour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stauffer, Sullivan, Campbell, Cook J. K.,Cutler, Decker, Duane, Taliaferro, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wells. Dufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Wilson-53. 243 DEBATES ITHE CONVITION FOR THE REiSION regard to the proposition, I think that any man who cannot read the constitution submitted by this Convention is unworthy. If the population is not prepared to learn the first principles of education, it is utterly impossible for them to vote knowingly on the questions submitted to their consideration. I am aware that there is a large number in this State who heretofore could not read nor write, and they have exercised the elective franchise on the words of politicians who have misled them. If they had been capable of reading what had happened, we would have been saved all this trouble. Mr. ABELI —1 shall oppose this report as it stands. I have seen some men who understood mathematics and the various sciences, but had scarcely sense enough to walk the street when it ws unencumbered; and I have seen ignorant men fight their way to high positions in the world. If this report is adopted, it may exclude a great many worthy and talented citizens; and I shall sustain the amendment to strike out the words in question. NArs-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Bell, Brom ley, Buckley, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook T., Ffood, Foley, Fosdick, Gorlinski, Grune berg, Harnan, Healy, Hills, Howes, Knob loch, Mayer, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Norman,&, O'Conner, Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Thorpe —30. [The order of the day wast then taken up, and the sixth art icle of the report on Legislative Department read.] fr. S. PRsELL-I move t o stri ke o ut the words " and able to read and write" from the following sen t ence: t Every white male who has attain ed the age of twenty-on e y ears, and wh o ha s been a res ide nt of the St ate twelve months next preceding the electon, and the last six months thereof in the par is h in which he offers to vote, and who shall be a citizen of the United States, and able to read and write, shall have the rig h t of voting." PRESIDENT —The chair would state to the Convention that, in its ruling of yesterday in regard to the ayes and nays, it was in err or; that the resolution introduc ed by Mr. Hills requiring the yeas and nays to be called on every section, was confined entirely to the report on emancipation. The resolution ofMr. Abell, requiring each section to be taken up'separately, says nothing in regard to calling the yeas and nays. Therefore, unless the Convention determine otherwise, the yeas and nays will not be called. Mr. S. PURSELL-I object to the report as rendered, because it disfranchises a large number of the citizens-the oldest inhabitants of the State of Louisiana. Mr. ABELL-When the Convention adjourned yesterday, it had not acted on the amendment to substitute "five" for "three" as the number of electors in the Fifth District. PRFSIDE.-r - The amendment -must be offered again. Mr. ABELL-I renew the amendment. PRESIDENT-It is not in order. Mr. ST-rPF-There are many good citizens in this State who can read and write other languages, but are ignorant of the English. Are they rejected as the report stands? 3fr. FoSDICK —It seems to me the language of the report is plain: it is9 simply that they, shall read and write some language. In I Mr. HI,TS-I wish to say a few words in behalf of the "old inhabitants" of Louisiana. The gentleman from Carrollton, it seems to me, has placed upon the records of this Convention a gross libel on the old inhabitants of the State. As one of those old inhabitants-one of the oldest of recent importation-I protest against giving out to the world that any very large proportion of the old inhabitants of this State are not capable of reading or writing their names. I do not think that ignorance prevails to such an alarming extent as would be naturally inferred from the gentleman's remark. I wish to place myself upon the records on this question in favor of the report as submitted to the Convention by the committee. I am in favor of the reading and writing qualification as a rule, though there may be exceptions. Men who are incapable of reading a nd wriin iting with all the advantages of free schools that have been enjoyed by the white population, should not, in my opinion, be permitted to exercise the elective franchise. .244 AND AMENMT OF THE CONSITUTION OF LOUISIANA. of that committee if he would not disfran- I and my constituents trampled under foot, I chise one-ffth of his own constituents. am in duty bound to raise my humble voice Mr. FosIc —I trust that most of my in their behalf. I consider the time of this constituents know how to read and write. Convention as belonging to the people. Mr. SULLIVAN-I will tell the gentleman Much of it has been unnecessarily con that those who cannot read nor write would sumed by members introducing resolution go to defend the flag of the country as soon after resolution, with little or no alteration, as he would. Twenty years ago there were for the sole purpose of evading the quesfew public schools in this State, and there tions before the House. Much time has are many men fifty years of age who can- been consumed by discussions on the slavery not read and write. The question is pre- question-a question that has been attractposterous. ing the attention of the ablest men of the Mr. SMrrH —I am in favor of rejecting nation for the last century-a question that that part of the report which disfranchises is' buried in the pit dug for it by the leaders the people of Louisiana from the simple of secession. In connection with this subfact that they cannot read and write, on the ject, allow me to state that I was once a same principle that the gentleman has just slave; slave! yes, a slave from the opstated. I am in favor of educating the free pression and tyranny of that bastard govchildren of Louisiana, so that for the fiuture ernment, led by that demon of the ninethis will not happen. I know there is a teenth century. I have been, sir, a penniless' large portion of my constituents who can- refugee, driven from my home by the not read and write, but who are intelligent satellites of John Slidell, and have recordmen, and I feel it would be doing an injus- ed an oath in high heaven against giving tice to deprive them of this right. aid or countenance towards any man or Mr. STOCKER —-I shall vote in favor of the means that will tend to promote the interamendment. In 1861, 1 was a candidate ests of his followers. And now, sir, when for assistant alderman-in the district repre- I see the hydra-headed monster of rebellion sented by the gentleman who makes this attempting to diffuse his venom in this report. A gentleman came up to vote for body, or when I see the dying embers of me, and because he could not write his secession gasping for one atom of oxygen name his vote was rejected, and I stood up from the pure air of the Union, or that for him, and for that reason there was an which is still worse, when I see gentlemen assault committed upon me, though with on this floor attempting to resurrect the the assistance of a friend I succeeded in dead carcass of slavery, I shudder for the defending myself; therefore, having fought frailty and weakness of man. Forbearance for a man at the polls who could not read. sometimes ceases to be a virtue, and thereI certainly shall fight for him here. fore I oppose the proposition. Mr. WELnS-With the consent of the Mr. THOMAS-I call for the previous quesConvention and that of the honorable tion. president, I would like to make a few [The motion was lost, 37 only voting in remarks. the affirmative. We have no way of judging of the future Mr. Abell endeavored to take the floor but by the past, and judging thus, it is evi- but was ruled out of order, and some condent that the work of to-day will be a fusion resulted. repetition of the labors of yesterday. I The roll was then called on the adoption see, sir, and I believe many other members of the report as amended with the follow of tile report as amended, with the followhave seen, that there is an under-current in ig result:] igresut: this body intended to retard the progress YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Ariail. Austin, Barof this Convention. I, being the junior rett, Balch, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, delegate of this body, feel a delicacy in Bonzano, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. Kthrowing myself in this turbid tream to., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Du ~~-throwi fesne, DIane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, obstruct its onward course; but, sir, when! Fish, Flood. Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, GaiI see the rights of my people, of my State, ~ dry, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, iarnan, 2'4-5 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION H two. In this Conventiori the Second I)it rict has 11 representatives and the Third 9. According to this apportionment to the Le gislature, the Second is entitled to 8 and i the Third to 6. The population of the Se cond in 1860, according to the census, was over 16,000, and of the Third over 24.000. We find similar results in the last election. The Second polled 600 votes and the Third 600; yet the Third has six representatives and the Second eight. On this report all I desire is what is right and fair. Mr. SuHAw-I rise to a point of order. I understand the committee intend to accept the amendment, anl therefore the discussion is unnecessary. Mr. FOSDICK-I did not wish to interrupt the gentleman, or should have stated that the amendments'were accepted. As I stated yesterday, we fixed the basis of representa tion the same as that adopted in convening this Convention. The city of New Orleans we gave 44 members, and divided them up on the plan previously adopted. Since then, on obtaining the returns of the last election, I find injustice has been done to some of the districts. I therefore accept the gentleman's amendment. Mr. HENDERSON - That amendment is merely a portion of what has already been proposed by the committee. It is assumed that the basis ought to be an electoral basis. I am not in favor of that. I am in favor of the one assumed by Gen. Banks, and that is the white population. It does not follow that because you are in favor of emancipa tion, you also include negro equality. We cannot fix the basis of any of the wards until we settle on the basis of representa tion. Shall it be white men, the electoral vote? The gentleman from the Seventhl (Mr. Howell) said he could show that in a majority or a great number of the States representation was based upon the voters. I call upon him for his proof. If it can be shown that a negro has been elected to Colf: gress, I will yield the question; though I grant that certain privileges are given to the colored man. The two parties that framed the constitution of the United States declared that representation and taxation should go together; in other words, every [The section was adopted.] Mr. MON-rAMAT-I move to adjourn. [The ayes and noes were called, with the following result:] YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Burke, Cook J. K., Dufresne, Dupaty. Gruneberg, Knobloch, Montamat, Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters-14. NAYs-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Barrett Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gaidry, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan Hart, Healy, Henderson, Hills, Mire, Howell, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Ong, Orr, Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson-66. Mr. TuO.MAS —I offer the following amendment: First District-Strike out hid-e and insert three. District-Strike out eight and insert five. Third District-Strike out six and insert seven. Fifth District-trike out three and insert four. Sixth District-Strike out three and insert two. Eighth District-Strike out two and insert three. Tenth Ditrict- Strik e out seven and insert eight. Mr. THo~XsS —I have a right to open the debate. The representation of New Orleans, as made in this report, is entirely erroneous, whether you take the entire white and colored population, or the vote of 1860, in the presidential election, or the last gubernatorial election. The vote cast in the First Representative District in the election of 1860 was 1100. The Second Representative District cast 1200, and the Third 2100 —nearly as many as the other 246 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. mIan t d tTHURSDAY, May 19, 1864. [The Convention was called to order at 12 o'clock, and the proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Stone. A call of the roll showed that the followi lg members were present, viz:] does not make the white population that basis on the principle that the negro and Indian should be subordinate. According to the opposite doctrine, if there are 10,000 voters in the parish you are to send 10,000 electors-a doctrine which I say contains neither common sense nor justice. I n reg a rd to the third line of the sixth article, I hope, at the proper time,a motion will be made to strike out "qualified electors"S and insert "total white population;" and to do the same wherever any such expression occurs, thus narrowing down the question to this: Are you in favor of electors being the basis, or the white population? Gen. Banks has been charged here with not knowing what he was about. Before issuing that order, he consulted every available means of information, and took as his basis the white population alone-not including the negroes, whether slave or free. We have a greater white population in the Second than in any other district of like dimensions, but as to the relative number of voters no conclusion can be arrived at, as it is difficult to determine whether a large portion of the population is white or black. Mr. MONTAMAT-YOU shall not insult the native-born population. [Confusion-,, that is so," etc.] Mr. HE.,DERSOX-We have here a large colored popufiation of perhaps 400,000, and by virtue of the constitution are a free people, and they occupy the soil of Louisiana, and must have the protection of the gov Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Baum, Bell, Bofil, Bonzano, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Crozat, - Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Gruneberg. Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Henderson, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Millspaugh, Montague, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Shroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Waters, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-62. [The re bei ng no quorum, the sergeant-atarms was dispatched to bring in absentees. After some delay, the following gentlemen, viz: Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Dupaty, Flagg, Gastinel,. Gorlinski, Harnan, Hills, Mendiverri, Seymour, Shaw, Thorpe and Thomas-l1having taken their seats, the Convention proceeded to business.] Mr. HENDERSON'-I move a reconsideration of the resolution which I offered yes terday, and which was lost. PRESID.ENT —Did you vote with the major ity? Mr. HENDERSON —-I voted with the minor at, as it is difficult to determine whether a ity large portion of the population is white or PRESIDE;"r-Then you cannot move a black. reconsideration. Mir. MONTAMAT-YOU shall not insult the AMr. GORLINSKI —I voted with the majority, native-born population. [Confusion-, that and I move a reconsideration. ~~~is so," etc.] ~Mr. HiLuer-I move to lay that motion on the table. Mr. HEN-DEnsON-We have here a large the table. coiored popuiation of perhaps 400,000, and [A rising vote showed ayes 28, noes 40. by virtue of the constitution are a free peo- The motion was lost. The question was then put on the motion to reconsider. and ple, and they occupy the soil of Louisiana, then put on the motion to reconsider. and and must have the protection of the gov- a rising vote showed 40 ayes, 29 nays. The ernment. }motion was adopted.] Mr. THOM.AS-I rise to a point of order. Mr. CuTLER-I move that the matter be The matter should have been discussed referred to a committee of five, to be apyesterday. The gentleman is not in order. pointed by the chair. -f.Asv.poeiidnted I thae cair.so PRESIDENT-The gentleman is in order. Mr. A -Mr. President I have a ro Mr. THOMAS-I appeal from the decision lution to offer of the chair. Resolved, That two-thirds of all the memof the chair.. (r ~ ~bThe chair was sutained-yeas 64na er of this Convention, as ascertained [The chair ras sustain ed ye as 64, nays 0. from the roll of those elected and qualified, On motion, the Convention then ad- shall hereafter constituite a quorum of this ]ourned till to-morrow.] body. 247 DE1BATES IN THE CONVNTION FOR THE REVISION Mt "forfeit," so that it will read " shall not forfeit his per diem." [The motion was lost.] Mr. THoMAs —I desire to explain the -rea son why I shall vote against the resolution. I never did believe that the quorum way fixed on a correct basis. One hundred and fifty was the number fixed as the whole number of delegates to represent the whole State, but we have never had a hundred, and I do not believe that seventysix out of one hundred members is a fair quorum. A resolution has been offered to-day, fixing a quorum at two-thirds of the members elected and qualified. I shall vote against this resolution, for the purpose of voting for that. Mr. HENDER.SO~N-I think there is no one here more anxious for the success of this Convention than myself. I think, however, we are going on a singular principle. Look for instance at Congress, where the mem bers get thirty dollars per day, and have been wrangling for six months without passing a bill. Why, sir, we have done more than they have, and they have not re sorted to any such plan as this resolution proposes, to cut off the per diem of a mem ber who may be a few minutes late. I shall vote against the resolution, because I think it unjust, unfair and unparliamentary, and such a one as has never been adopted by any deliberative body on the face of the earth. Mr. PURSELrL, of Jefferson —I think I can conscientiously vote against the resolution. I think that the record will show that I-have been punctually in my place every day from the commencement of the session. And if all these gentlemen who are so anxious to get through such a resolution as this were found in their seats as punctually as I have been, instead of leaving without voting when an important question is to be voted on, we should always have a quorum. Mr. THORPE-I shall oppose anything that proposes to fine members pecuniarily for absence from roll-call. It looks undignifled and childish in a body like this. We have been here a long time, and have done but little business, and I wish it put on record . by the reporters, that I have never mae Mr. C rLIL7 — have a resolution to offer, which I would ask to have referred to the same committee as the resolution of Mr. Henderson: Whereas, The misfortunes of war has thrown in upon us many Union refugees, from different parts of our State and the neighboring States, who are now in a desti tute condition and want and require imme diate relief; and whereas, this Convention does sympathize with those who have had to leave their homes on account of their Union sentiments; therefore, Resolved, That the sum of dollars be and is hereby authorized to be placed at the disposal of the governor to relieve the distressed refugees in our city. -Mr. GOLDMAN-I move a suspension of the rules to take it up immediately. Mr. HILIS-I move that the resolution be referred to the same committee. [The motion was adopted on a rising vote: ayes, 45, noes 8. Mr. Austin, chairman of the committee to whom was referred the auditor's report, reported " progress."] Mr. HILLS-I call up my resolution of yesterday, cutting off per diem of absent members. Mr. BELL oI move its adop tio n. [A motion was mad e to lay it on the table. The ayes and noes were called, with the following result:] YEAs- Messrs. Abell, Austin, Bailey, Buckley, Campbell, Cutler, Dufresne, Du: paty, Flagg, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Henderson, Hire, Kavanagh. Knobloch, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Paine J. T., Pursell S., Schnurr, Waters-22. NAYs-Messrs. Balch, Baum, Bell, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Burke, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Howell, Howes, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Millspaugh, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Confier, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson —56. Mr. HiLis-On that resolution T move the previous question. [The motion was lost.] Mr. ]MON?:AXT —I move to insert the word -*not " between the words " shall " and 248 ~AND AMI~NDMET OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 249 AND AMENMET OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 249 motion to adjourn, to lay on the table, or to those who are absent without leave, moved the previous question. I agree with without a reasonable excuse. I, therefore, the gentleman from the Third District (Mr. vote yes. Thomas) with respect to our quorum, and I [The following is the result of the vote would here remark, for the benefit of the i by which the resolution was adopted:] gentleman, that a resolution has recently YEAs- Messrs. Austin, Balch, Barrett, been adopted by the Senate of the United Bofill, Bonzano, Burke, Crozat, Davies, States fixing a quorum at a majority of all Duane, Ennis, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geler, the members elected and returned to that Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hart, Hills, the members elected and returned to that Howell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, body from the States not in rebellion. The Millspaugh, Montague, Newell, Normand, rebellious States are reduced to the condi- O'Conner, Orr, PayneJ.,Pintado, Purcell J., tion of territories of the United States, and Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Stumpf, Stiner, r Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Wells, Wilson are no longer States.,43 We are in precisely the same condition, NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Baum, Bell, and to load this Convention down with such Bromley, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., an enormous majority for a quorum, is Cook T., Cutler, Decker, DufresRe, Dupaty, simply to burden ourselves with parishes Edwards, Flagg, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Gai in the country that we do not recognize dry, Henderso n, Hire, Howes, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy M. and know nothing about. W., Ong, Paine J., T., Poynot, Pursell S., Mr. ABELL-It is my misfortune to differ Schnurr, Seymour, Sullivan, Thorpe, Tho with the gentleman from the Third District mas, Waters-36. on almost every occasion. He is ashamed Mr. HENDERSO.N-The resolution was not that we have been here so long and done carried; it requires two-thirds to change a so little. But I think we have done a great rule of this body. deal-a great deal too much. We have Mr. Wilson called up his resolution. passed one act that ought to have taken at [The secretary read the resolution fixing least ten years. I shall vote against the the time of adjournment on the first of proposition. It is our duty as gentlemen, June.] as representatives of the people, to be here Mr. SULLIVAN-I move to lay it on the at the hour of 12 o'clock, and I think that table. obligation is sufficient, without any attempts [The motion was carried.] to impose fines in so ignominious a manner. Mr. PURSELT, of Jefferson-I call up my Mr. HunLs-Mr. President, the insinuation resolution.; of the gentleman from Jefferson, that I have [The secretary read the resolution fixing not been here regularly and punctually, the time of meeting at 10 o'clock A.M.] and have left without voting, I repel. The Mr. Mo.NrAMAT-I move to lay that resorecord will show that I have been regular, lution on the table. and have not moved or voted for adjourn- [Mr.' BONxZANO-I call up my resolution. ments. If I cannot come here promptly, I The secretary read the resolution, proam willing to lose my per diem. My time viding that no motion for an adjournment is valuable to me outside. It is at a con- for a longer tinte than twenty-four hours siderable sacrifice that I am able to come shall be entertained unless seconded by a here at all. majority of the House, and that then the We have fixed our hour of meeting at 12 vote shall be taken by yeas and nays.] o'clock. Then let us meet at that hour. Mr. SVLJrVA.T move to lay it on the If we cannot meet sooner than 1, let us fix table. that hour; but while 12 is the hour, let us [The motion to table was lost, and the be punctual. resolution adopted on a rising vote-ayes [The yeas and nays wer' called.] 38, noes 29.] Mr. Ausv.x —I voted to ly the regolu- PRESIDENT-The report of the Committee tion on the table, because I did not under- on the Legislative Department is the order stand it fully. I thought it was without of the day, and is now in order. any qualifieation, but I find it applies only Mr. PlsqEiJ —] move to strike out these 32 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION words, constituting the 88th to the 91st entitle the parish of St. Mary to two reprelines inclusive. viz' The Legislature shall sentatives instead of one. There has been have power to pass laws extending suffrage injustice done to that parish in making the to such other persons, citizens of the United apportionment. More than four hundred States, as by military service, by taxation votes were polled there at the gubernatorial to support the government, or by intellect- election, and previously we have always nal fitness may be deemed entitled thereto."' had two representatives and one senator. Mr. STAUFFER-I move to lay the motion X Mr. SAw- The parish of St. Mary, in to strike out on the table. 1860, had 3500 white inhabitants. Now, if Mr. GOLDMn — I second that motion. you divide the number of white inhabitants [The yeas and nays were called on the in the State by 118-the number of repremotion to strike out.] sentatives-you will find that'St. Mary, Mr. FOLEY-I rise for information. I de- instead of being entitled to two, is only sire to know if this refers to white men in entitled to one. the military service of the United States. This report is based on the census of PRESIDENT'-The language is very plain; 1860. There are no dates by which a every gentleman must construe it for him- perfectly accurate basis can now be obself. tained, but I believe that to be as correct a Mr. HARNAN —I vote " yes,"' because it basis as can be fixed at this time. would let negroes who have property qiali- Mr. S ifru-Thliere is certainly a mistake fications vote.. we have generally 900 or 1000 voters, and Mr. S.o-I vote "yes,"' because I be- in the last election cast nearly 500. 1 lieve the constitution should fix the qualift- notice one parish with only 200 more voters cations and not leave it to the Legislature. than we have with two representatives. I Mr. FOLEY-I desire to change my vote ask it simply as a matter of justice to the from "no" to "yes,"' because I find the parish; we are legally entitled to it. paragraph refers to negroes. Mr. HowELL-As was remarked by the Mr. BARRETT-I desire to change my vote gentleman from the Fourth District, [Mr. from "no to " yes.' I did not know Shaw,] members will do well to bear in what I was voting for. mind that this portion of the report now Mr. HuLs-I wish my vote to stand. I under consideration is intended only as a also desire that all the membelrs of this Con- temporary provision until the first legisvention who have not voted on this ques- lature can be organized and set to work. tion be required to record their votes. It would have been bette(r had this par [The following is the result of the vote:] tion of the report been omitted and referred YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Bilch, Bailey, Bar- to the Committee on Schedule, and taken rett, Baum, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, uil with that report after the Judiciary Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T.-, Croza, report has been disposed of. We should Cutler, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Gastinel, Geier, Grune- then have been relieved of the difficulty of berg, Healy, Harnan, Hart. Kavanagh, making arithmetical calculations, which Knobloch, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendi- cannot well be made by the body of a verri, Millspaugh, Montamat, Murphy M. Convention. That was the course pursued W., Newell, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Convention o Purcell J., Puirsell S., Schroeder, Seymour, by the Convention of 1852. Smith, Stumpf, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry,. I Gentlemen should consider where these Thomas, Waters, Wilson —53.! efforts at amending in this mode will lead NAYS-Messrs. Austin, Bonzano, Brom- the Convention, if carried out. The ap ley, Davies, Dupaty, Ennis, Fosdick, Gold- portionment is made by an arithmetical cal man, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Maas, culation and if you change arbitrarily the Montague, Normand, Paine J. T, Pintado, Schnurr, Shaw, Stiner, Stauffer, Thorpe, number of members in any one parish, you Wells-23. * necessarily change the proportion not only [The motion to strike out was carried.] of the one parish, but of all the parishes in Mr. SMITH-I move to strike out the the State. The report fixes the number of figure "one" and insert "two," so as to representatives to compose the first legisla t 250 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. ture at 118. The committee, then, take It is impossible for us to tell what is the some fixed number, as the total population electoral vote in parishes not sending deleor the total number of electors, and divide gates to this Convention. So if you take that number by 118 to ascertain the num- the last gubernatorial election, if you d ber of inhabitants or of electors, as the termine for the parish of St. Mary by that, case may be, who are entitled to one re- how will you provide for Catahoula, or any presentative, thus fixing upon a ratio or other parisb, in which no election was divisor to ascertain the number of repre- held? sentatives to which each parish is entitled. [The amendment was lost.] Now, gentlemen will see that if you change Mr. BALcH-I move to amend by striking the proportion in one parish, you change out opposite Iherville "1" nnd inserting the whole proportion and render it neces- "2," as a matter of justice. We have 5743 sary to make another divisor. I think that voters according to the census of 1860. I it would be better to take the report as it am extremely astonished at some members stands than for this Convention to go into who seem disposed to claim all their own an arithmetical calculation to change it. rights, but giant none to others. We throw I do not object to the amendment of the ourselves upon the generosity of New Or amendment. eMr. ABELL, —— I do not understand about this matter. I moved on yesterday to strike out "qualified electors," &c., and substitute total population. but each amendment was t a bl ed. I wish to see some degree of consistency in the House. Mr. S.-w —-The Conyention has agreed to make the representation from the parishes upon the basis of qualified electors. The first census to ascertain their number is to be taken in 18(;i. but until that time we must adopt a temporary basis of representation, which, if I understand this report rightly, is to be that of the total white pop ilation as it stood in 1860. In regard-to Iberville, it had in 1860 a population of 3793 whites, according to the compendium of the United States census. f will not argue upon the correctness of this certified copy, but, if it is wrong, will be the first to rectify it. At present, I am in favor of sustaining the report of the com mittee. In the whole State of Louisiana there are 357,623 whites, and thus there will bed one representative to every 3030 of the population. 0Mr. MoliIS- --- move to recommit be tween lines 33 and 80. [Tihe motion was lost. UIMr. BaIch s amendment was lost.] iMr. Stiw —I move that after" informal,?' t in the 16th line, the word "error" be in though one or two parishes may be injured, in the 16th line, the word "'error"'be insince it is better to do that than to deal serted, because the grossest error may be unjustly with more. covered in the most formal manner. 251 252 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. FosDicx-I accept the amendment. ana is 357,629, of which New Orleans has Mr. M —I move to strike out "seven- 149,068, very nearly half of the whole repty" in the eleventh line and insert" seventy- resentation. It may be difficult to account five," and to strike out after that to the for it; but we have a large proportion of words "after which." In 1870, if we are a non-voters and subjects of foreign powers part of the- United States, the census then here, which are not found in the country taken will save us the trouble, and then, as parishes, and the difference is so great as to many of the other States do, we can take give this State, on the basis of the white ours at the end of the first five intervening population, a representation that is disproyears. This is done in New York, Wiscon- portioned. I am in favor of acting fairly sin, Michigan, and was in Louisiana under by the country, and taking the middle the constitution of 1845. ground and making the qualified electors Mr. SHAW —A census of the inhabitantsI the basis. Every voter is equal to every of the State is not proposed, but merely an 1 other voter, and should have the same repenumeration of the qualified electors, which resentation; but if you take the total white does not cost as much or require as much population as a basis, you will give the pains as the taking of a census. parish of Orleans a representation it is not [The amendment was lost.] entitled to. Mr. TERRY In place of lines 88, 89, 90 Mr. HENDEtso, —We are speculating about and 91, already stricken out, I offer the fol- fixing the number of members of the Legislowing: "The Legislature shall have power lature, when we have not fixed upon the to pass laws, extending the right of suffrage basis of representation. I shall sustain the to such other white persons, citizens of the original bill, without any amendment, in United States, as by military services. or regard to the apportionment, but merely rendering other important services, may be for temporary purposes, until the next Ledeserving of that p)rivilege. gislature meets and we have a census. [Laid on the table.].In regard to the fundamental portion of Mr. HENDERSON-I propose to insert in the the bill, whether the basis shall be the third line "total white population," instead electors or the white population, I am i of qualified electors, and to make the same favor of striking out the words "electors substitution wherever, through the section, and qualified elector wherever they an qualified electors" wherever they the like words occur. occur, and inserting " total white popula Mr. GOLDMAN —I move to lay on the table. tion." [Motion lost.] [The amendment was lost.] Mfr. SuAw-The Convention should con- Mi.i FLAGGd-In the table of representasider well what it is doing before voting tives for the several districts and parishes, on this question. It is settled by our ac- I move to substitute the words "right bank, tion to-day that the qualified electors will Orleans." for "right bank, Algiers." form the basis of representation; there- [The amendment was adopted.] fore this question of the colored population Mr. TIHOMAS-I now move the previous does not enter into the subject at all. The question on article 6. question is: Shall it be the whole white [The motion was lost, 32 voting in the population or the white voters?' If you affirmative.] adopt the former, and the House of Repre- Mr. BiOMLy:- I move, in the apportionsentatives be composed of 130 members, ment of the parishes of Lafourche and the city of New Orleans would have about Claiborne, to strike out " two" and insert 63; but if the basis of qualified electors be "three."' adopted, New Orleans would have 44. Any [The amendment was lost.] gentleman entering into the calculation to. Mr. BELI-I move in the First District to l,e approximately correct, based on the re- strike out "three" and insert "four'' for turns of the census, will find this to be the the number of representatives. cise. The total white population of Louisi- [The amendment was lost.] AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 253 Mr. MoNr-A —I move the previous ques- Mr. STOCKER —-I move to amend by striktion. ing out the words "at the discretion of the [The motion was carried by a vote of 61 Legislature," in the 5th line. in the affirmative, and the sixth article [The amendment was lost.] adopted on its second reading. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move to strike out The secretary read article 7:]' thirty-four," leaving the number of sena Art. 7. The Legislature shall provide by tors blank. law that the names and rasidences of all (The amendment was lost and the article qualified electors shall be registered in or- adopted as read. der to entitle them to vote; but the registry The secretary read:] shall be free of cost to the elector. The secretay read:] r. TERRY —I move its adoption Art. 13. In all apportionments of the MAr. TERRY —I move its adoption. Senate, the electoral population of the (The motion was adopted. whole State shall be divided by the num The secretary read article 8:] ber thirty-four, and the result produced by Art. 8. No pauper, no person under in- this division shall be the senatorial ratio teriiction, nor under conviction of any entitling a senatorial district to a senator. crime punishable with hard labor, shall be Single or contiguous parishes shall be entitled to vote at any election in this formed into districts, having a population State. the nearest possible to the number entitling Mr. FOLE-I move its adoption a district to a senator; and if in the appor tionment a parish or district fall short of or [The motion was carried. exceed the ratio, then a district may be The secretary read:] formed having not more than two senators, Art. 9. No person shall be entitled to vote but not otherwise. No new apportionment at any election held in this State except in shall have the effect of abridging the term t h e parish of his residence, and in cities of service of any senator already elected and towns divided into election precincts at the time of making the apportionment. After an enumeration. has been made as diin the election precinct in which he resides. After an enumeration has been made as di rected in the- article, the Legislature MNr. BELI-I move its adoption. shall not pass any law until an apportion [The motion was carried. ment of representation in both Houses of The secretary read:] the General Assembly be made. Art. 10. The members of the Senate shall MOr. FOLEY-I move its adoption. be chosen for the term of four years. The [The motion was carried. Senate, when assembled, shall have the The secretary read:] power to choose its own officers. I Art. 14. At the first session of the Gen Mr. STAVFFEP.-I move its adoption. eral Assembly, after this constitution takes [The motion was carried. effect, the senators shall be equally divided The secretary read:] by lot into two classes; the seats of the Art. 11. The Legislature, in every year in senators of the first class shall be vacated which they shall apportion representation at the expiration of the second year; of the in the House of Representatives, shall di- second class at the expiration of the fourth vide the State into senatorial districts. year so that one-half shall be chosen Mr. BELL —I move its adoption. every two years, and a rotation thereby .Mr. BFL.L —-I move its adoption. kept up perpetually. In case any district [The motion was carried. shall have elected two or more senators, The secretary read:] t said senators shall vacate their seats re Art. 12. No parish shall be divided in the spectively at the end of two and four years, formation of a senatorial district —the par- and lots shall be drawn between them. ish of Orleans excepted. And whenever a Mr. MON.-TA.MA —I move its adoption. new parish shall be created, it shall be at- (The motion was carried. tached to the senatorial district from which The cetary read] 1The secretary read: most of its territory was taken, or to another contiguous district, at the discre- Art. 15. The first election fbr senators tion of the Legislature; but shall not be shall be general throughout the State, and attached to more than one district. The at the same time that the general election number of senators shall be thirty-four and for representatives is held; and thereafter they shall be apportioned among the sena- there shall be biennial elections to fill the torial districts according to the electoral places of those whose term of service may population contained in the several dis- have expired. tricts: Provided, that no parish be entitled Mr. STUMPc-I move its adoption. to more than seven senators. [The motion was carried. I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION The secretary read:] [The motion was carried, and the article Art. 16. Not less than a majority of the adopted as read. members. of each House of the General The secretary read:] Assembly shall form a quorum to do busi- Art. 21. Neither House, during the sesness; but a smaller number may adjourn i ion ofthe General Assembly, shall without from'day to day, and shall be authorized sIonAsml,salihu frommday to day, and shall be authorized | the consent of the other, adjourn for more by law to compel the attendance of absent than three days, nor to any other place than than three days, nor to any other place than members. that in which they may be sitting. Mr. ALTSTI —, —l move its adoption. Mr. AUSTN-I move itis adoption. Mr. GASTIN-EL-I move its adoption. ~~~~~~~~~~~[The motion was, carried. [The motion was carried. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] The secretary read:] !The secretary read:] Art. 17. Each House of the General As- Art. 22. The members of the General sembly shall judge of the qualifications, Assembly shall receive from the public election and returns of its members; but a treasury a compensation for their services contested election case shall be determined which shall be eight dollars per day. during in such manner as shall be directed by law. their attendance, going to and returning Mr. MONTAMA.T-I move to strike out all from the sessions of their respective after the word "4members," in the second Houses. The compensation may be in line.' creased, or diminished by law, but no alline. teration shall take effect during the period Mr. HIARNAN-I move that it be adopted. of service of the members of the House of [The motion to adopt was carried, Mr. Representatives by whom such alteration shall have been made. No session shall -Montamat's motion not having been sec- shall have been m ade. No session shall -ontamat's motonotaviextend to a period beyond sixty days, to onded. date firom its comnmencement, and any The secretary read:] legislative action had after the expiration Art. 18. Each House of the General As- of the said sixty days shall be null and sembly may determine the rules of its pro- void. This provision shall not apply to the ceedings, punish a member for disorderly first Legislature which is to convene attc r behavior, and, with the concurrence of the adoption of this Constitution. two:thirds, expel a member, but not a Mr. FoLEv —I move to amend by striking second time for the same offence. out "eight dollars," and insert "ten dol Mr. STOCKER-I move to amend the third lars"in the third line. line by striking out the words "but not a [The amendment was tabled.] second time for the same offence." [h moet s te Mr Wi-sox —I move to strike out the Mr. HEALY-I move its adoption. words "and any legislative action had after [The resolution to adopt was carried, Mr. the expiration of the said sixty days shall , the expiration of the said sixty days shall Stocker's motion not having been seconded. be null and void." The secretary read:] The secretary read:] i Mr. ABmLr,-I move to strike out all after Art. 19. Each House of the General As- the words respective Houses." sembly shall keep and publish weekly a journal of its proceedings, and the yeas [The amendements were lost, and t[ie and nays of the members on any question, article adopted as read. shall, at the desire of any two of them, be The secretary read ] entered on the journal. Art. 23. The members of the Geneial Mr. GORLiNSKI-I move its adoption. Assembly shall in all cases, except treason. (The motion was carried. felony, breach of the peace, be privilegedi The secretary read:] from arrest during their attendance at the sessions of their respective Houses, or go Art. 20. Each House may punish, by ing to or returning from the same, and for imprisonment, any person not a member, any speech or debate in either House they for disrespectful and disorderly behavior shall not be questioned in any other place. in its presence, or for obstructing any of its proceedings. Such imprisonment shall Mr. Tfo.)s —I think there is an error not exceed ten days for any offence. here. The word "and"' should be inserted Mr. MON1T.AMAT I move to strike out between "felony"' and "breach of the "ten days" in the fourth line, and insert peace." 'forty-eight hours."' SECRETAILRY-It is a typographical error Mr. FoLEY-I move to lay that motion in the printed copy. on the table. { Mr. BEAUVIAS-I move its adoption. 254 AND AMENMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. [The motion was carried. Mr. STOCKER-There is something here The secretary read:] which strikes me as rather singular. 1 Art. 24. No senator or representative should like to have it explained by the shall, during the term for which he was chairman of the committee. I would like elected, nor one year thereafter, be ap- t pointed or elected to any civil office of to ask hm what he considers a ce of profit under this State, which shall have urgency?" been created, or the emoluments of which Mr. FOSDIcK-There was a case of urgency shall have been increased during the time reported here yesterday-a case in which such senator or representative was in office, women and children were starving to death. except to such offices or appointments as may be filled by the elections of the In such a case the Legislature would have people. power to act at once. Mr. OXG-I move its adoption. Mr. STOCKE-I agree with the gentleman [The motion was carried. perfectly, and shall vote for this article. The secretary read:] [The motion to adopt was carried. Art. 25. No person who may have at any The secretary read:] time been collector of taxes, whether State, Art. 28. All bills for raising revenue shall parish or municipal, or who may have been originate in the House of Representatives, otherwise interested with public money, but the Senate may propose amendments, shall be eligible to the General Assembly, as in other bills; provided, they shall not or to any office of profit or trust, under the introduce any new matter, under color of State government, until he shall have ob- an amendment, which does not relate to tained a discharge for the amount of such raising revenue. collections, and for all public moneys with Mr. BEAASI move its adoption Air. BE,&uVAis —I move its adoption. which he may have been entrusted. [The motion was carried. Mr. BELLI move its adoption. The secretary read:] Mir. CAMIPBELL-I move to strike out the ItArt. 29. The General Assembly shall regulword "interested " and to insert "entrust- Art. 29. The General Assembly shall reg!i late, by law, by whom, and in what manner, ed," in the third line. writs of election shall be issued to fill the PRESIDE.Nr-That is evidently a typo- vacancies which may happen in either graphical error. branch thereof. [The motion to adopt the article was Mr. BELT-I move its adoption. carried. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] The secretary read:) Art. 26. No person while he continues to Art. 30. The Senate shall vote on the exercise the functions of a clergyman, of confirmation or rejection of officers to be any religious denomination whatever, shall appointed by the governor, with the advice be eligible to the General Assembly. and consent of the Senate, by yeas and nays, and the names of the senators voting Mr. STOCKER-I move to strike out that for and against the appointments, respectsection.' It is an insutlt to the clergy of the ively, shall be entered on a journal to be State. kept for that purpose, and made public at the end of each session, or before. Mr. SULLIVAN-I move to lay that motion M on the table. The preachers have been the Mr TEY- mo ve it s adoption 1[The motion was carried. ruin of the country. The secretary read:] [The motion to table was carried by a The motion to table was cared by a Art. 31. Returns of all elections for memrising vote of 48 yeas to 18 nays, and the bers of the General Assembly shall be made article adopted as read. to the secretary of State. The secretary read:] Mr. BOFILL-I move its adoption. Art. 27. No bill shall have the force of a [The motion was carried. law until, on three several days, it be read The secretary read:] over in each House of the General Assem-. bly, and free discussion allowed thereon, A rt. 32. In the year! i t which it regular unless, in case of urgency four-fifths of the" election for a senator of the Unte States is House, where the bill shall be pending, Aepl the members of the General may deem it expedient to dispense with Ho embly shall meet in the Hall of the tmay deem it expedient to dispense withe second Monday following the meeting of the Legi Mr BEI.Jl -l move its adoption. I lature, and proceed to the mid election. 255 DEBATE IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. PuRSLLI move its adoption. parish, but of a village in the parish of [The motion was carried.] Orleans. Mr. PmL-I move a suspension of the [The minutes, as corrected, were adopted.] rules in order to put this upon its third Mr. BOFITJ-Having voted with the ma reading and adopting it as a whole. jority yesterday on the resolution of the Mr. SULLIVYAN-I move to adjourn. gentleman-from the Second District, (Mr. Mr. HILLS-I call for the ayes and noes. Hills,) fixing a penalty of loss of per diem [The call for the ayes and noes was not to absentees from the roll-call, I move to sustained, and the motion to adjourn was reconsider the action of the Convention in carried.] adopting that resolution. Mr. STAUFFER-I move to lay the motion FRIDAY, May 20,1864. on the table. Mr. FOLEY-1I second the motion. [At the usual hour the Convention was r FOEY-I second the motion. called to order, and the proceedings were [The ayes and noes were called, with the [The ayes and noes were called, with the following result:] opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Gregg. following result:] The following gentlemen answered to YEAS- Messrs. Ariail, Bonzano, Bromley, their names upon the first roll-call:] Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Foley, Fosdick, Me...l AB. i Fuller, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hart, Messrs. Abell, Ariall, Austin, Balch Bai- Hills, Howell, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mills ley, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, paugh, Montague, Morris, Murphy M. W.. Bonzano, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Camp- Newell, Normand, O'Conner. Orr, Payne J., bell, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Schroeder Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Schnurr, Shaw, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Taliaferro, Terry, Wells-39. Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geler, Goldman, NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bai Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Hart Icy, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Hlowes, Kava- Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. nagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mau- K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, rer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Monta- Dufresne, Dupaty, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Gas mat, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Mur- tinel, Geier, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, phy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner,i Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Knob Ong, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, loch, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Murphy E., Ong, Purcell J., Pursell S., SeySchnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, mour, Smith, Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wilson-51. Taliaferro, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-88. [The motion was lost.] [The minutes of the previous day s pro- Mr. SrOCKER-Mr. President, I rise for ceedings were read.] information. I see one or two gentlemen Mr. ABELL-Mr. Duke sends word that he who have voted on this question who, under is necessarily absent on account of sickness the rule we have adopted, are not here. in his family. Mr. Collin is sick We have just fined them to the amount of Mr. WImso.xN-I desire to call the attention their per diem for absence. We cannot exof the secretary to the fact that the - arti- pect men to perform services here unless cle was not read as amended. I moved td they are paid for it; and having taken from strike out the parenthetical conclusion of these gentlemen their per diem for absence, the article as unnecessary, and my motion they cannot be considered as being present. was carried. PRESIDENT-That inasmuch as the gentle Mr. S. PURSELL-It seems by the minutes man states that he sees the gentlemen here, that my resolution fixing the hour of meet- it is evident that they are present and not ing at 10 o'clock is connected with evening absent. sessions. My motion had nothing to do [The motion to reconsider was put and with evening sessions. carried.] Mr. FLAGG-My motion was to amend by Mr. Mo-TAMAT-I now move that the resstriking out the word "Algiers,"' in the ex- olution of Mr. Hills be laid on the table. pression "right bank Algiers," and insert Mr. SuLLrvA-I second the motion. "Orleans." Algiers is not the name of the [The motion was carried.] , 56 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 257 Art. 2. No person shall be eligible to the office of governor or lieutenant-governor who shall not have attained the age of twenty-eight years, and been a citizen and resident within the State for the space of four years next preceding his election. Mr. SULLIVAN-I offer as an amendment, that no man shall be eligible to the office of governor who is not thirty years of age or upward, and who has not been a resident of the State for fifteen years. Mr. FOLEY I move to lay the amendment on the table. [The motion was lost.] Mr. ABELL-I desire to know what is the amendment, before I vote on it. I might vote for the years and not for fifteen. Mr. SuLITvA_ —I wish to withdraw my amendment, and to make it ten years. instead of fifteen. Mr. FOLEY-I shall move as an amendment, that no Irishman be eligible to the office of governor. [The yeas and nays were called.] Mr. BoFIrL —I should like to know, Mr. President, whether I am called upon to vote on Mr. Foley's amendment? PRESIDEr-,rThe vote is on tabling Mr. Sullivan's amendment. [The motion to table was lost, by the fol lowing vote:] YEAs-Messrs. Arlail, Bonzano, Bromley, Cazabat, Co'lin. Duane, Dupat, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Foley,:Fosdick, Gaidry, Geier, Gold man, Gorlinskl, Hills, Hire, Maas, Morris, Murphy E., Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Stiner, Stauffer, W-eick-33. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bar rett, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook T., Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Dufresne, Ed wards, Flagg, Fuller, Gastinel. Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Millspaiigh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Poynot, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker Stumpf, Sullivan, Talaferro, Thomas, Wells, Waters. Wilson —53. Mr. AUST eoN-I call up my resolution offered yesterday. [ The secretar y read the resolution changing the quorum from 76 to two-thirds of the members elected to the Convention.] Mr. BELLe. I m o ve it s adoptio n. Mr. STAUFFER-I move to lay that motion on the table. [The motion to table wa s adopted.] PREStIDENT -The majority report of th e Committe e on the Legislative Department is the order of th e d ay, and now comes up on its third reading. [The report was adopted.] Mr. HOWELL-I move that we take up the r ep ort of the Co mmitte e on the Execut iv e Department. Mr. THoMAs-I second the motion. [The motion was carried. The secretary read the first article:] Art. 1. The supreme executive power of the State shall be vested in a chief magistrate, who shall be styled the g overnor of the Stat e of Louisiana. He shall hold his offic e dur ing the term of four years, and, toge ther wit h t he lieuten ant-governor, chosen for the same term, be elected as follows: The qualified electors for representatives shall v ote for governor and lieutenant-governor at the time and place of voting for rep resentatives; the returns of every electi on shall be s ealed up and t ransmitted by the prop er retu rning officer to the secretary of State, wh o shall deliver, them to the speaker of the House of Representatives on the second day of t he s ession o f th e Gen eral Assembly then to be holden. The members of the General Assembly shall meet in the House of Representatives to examine and count the votes. The person having the greatest number of votes for governor shall be declared duly elected, bu t if two or more persons shall be equal and highest in the number of votes polled for governor, one of them shall immediately be chosen governor by joint vote of the members of the General Assembly. The person having the greatest number of votes polled for lieutenant-governor shall be lieutenantIgovernor; but if two or more persons shall be equal and highest in the number of votes polled for lieutenant-governor, one of them shall be immediately chosen lieutenant governor by joint vote of the members of the General Assembly. Mr. AuSTIN\-I move the adoption of the first article. [The motion was carried. The secretary read the second article:] 33 Mr. Mn,LSPAUGH-I move the adoption of the amendment. [The yeas and nays were. called.] Mr. GOaLINSKI —I wish to explain my vote. In 1852 the Convention which revised the constitution fixed the residence at four years. This Convention (a Free State DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Convention) proposes to fix it at ten. I think this is going backward, and not torward. Therefore, 1 shall vote no. [The amendment was adopted by the follOwing vote:] YErs-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Balch, Barrett, Baum, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Dufresne, Edwards, Flagg, Fuller, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Millspaugh, Montamat, Montague, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Waters, Wells, Wilson-52. NAYs-Messrs. Beauvais, Bell, Bonzano, Bromley, Collin, Duane, Dupaty, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Goldman, Gorlinski, Hills, Hire, Howell, Maas, Morris, Payne J., Paine, J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell, S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Stiner, Thomas, Wenck-32. [The article as amended was adopted. The secretary read:] Art. 3. The governor shall enter on the discharge of his duties on the fourth Monday of January next ensuing his election, and shall continue in office until the Monday next succeeding the day that his successor shall be declared duly elected. and shall have taken the oath or affirmation required by the constitution. r Mr. MxN,~-We have said in our report that the meeting of t he L egis latur e shoul d be fixed for the first Monday in January. I think it would be well to amend this to correspond. Mr. PuOrSEL-I move to strike out th e word " fourth " and insert " second "-that will remedy the difficulty. [The motion was carried, and the article as am ende d adopted. The secretary read:] Art. 4. The governor shall be ineligible for the succeeding four years after the expiration of the time for which he shall have been elected. Mr. BoFiiL-I move to strike out that article from the report. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 5. No member of Congress or person holding any officc under the United States shall be eligible to the office of governor or lieutenant-governor. Mr. W~r.LLS-I move to amend by inserbting in the second line, after the words "United States,," or "minister of any religious society." Mr. STAUFFER-Wte have already provided that no minister of any religious denomina tion shall hold any office in the State of Louisiana, and, if that includes this, I can se e no reason for inserting such a couse he re. [A motion to la y the amendment on the table was lost. The amendment was adopted, and the arti cle as amen ded adopted.] Mr. ABEL, — voted to strike out the fourth article. I think it was improperly done, and shall move a reconsideration. When a governor has been in office four years his patronage becomes to o powerf ul. He shou ld no t be repelected. [The motion to reconsider was laid on th e ta b le, on a rising v ote, by 43 ayes to 29 nays.] Mr. ABd LL-Mr. Pres ident, this is a very important question, an d i t is very evident that there is no quorum voting. I trus t that the r ule s will be enforced-every member required to vote. I ask for a call of the House. PRESIDENT —Ir. Secretary read article 6. Mr. ABEL T-I wish to kno w i f any mermber has not a right to ask -for a call of the House at any time he pleases when it is manifest from the vote that there is no quorum present. He certainly has n o right to do it captiously, but I did not do it in that manner, and as it is manifes t from the vote th at ther e is no quorum, I sha ll claim the right. I PRESII)ENTrI do not think a member has such a right, especially when it is manifest that there is a quorum present; but if two members call for it, I will order the roll called. Mr. GASTINE,Lat move a call of the House. [The roll was called and, eighty-seven members answered to their names. The vote on tabling the motion was taken by yeas and nays, resulting as follows:] YE-s-Messrs. Austin, Bailey, Beauvais, Bofill. Burke, Cazabat, Collin, Cook T., Crozat, (Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, E~nnis, Fish, F1agg, Fuller, Semidry, I 258 -1 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 25-9 for his service the same compensation which shall for the same period be allowed to the speaker of the House of Representatives, and no more. Mr. BEAUVAIS-I offer the following substitute for article 9: While he acts as president of the senate, the lieutenant governor shall. receive for his services a compensation of $5000 per annum, payable quarterly, on his own warrant. Mr. J. PURCELL-I second the motion. [The substitute was tabled and the article adopted as read. The secretary read:] Art. 10. The governor shall have power to grant reprieves for all offences against the State, and except in cases of impeachment, shall, with the consent of the senate, have power to grant pardons and remit fines and forfeitures, after conviction. In cases of treason, he may gr an t re prieve s until the end of the next session of t he G en eral Ass emb ly, i n wh ich the power of pardonitng shall b e v ested. Mr. TERRY —I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 11. The governo r s hall, at statedl times, receive for his services a compensation, which shall be neither increased nor diminished duiing the term for which he shall have been elected. Mr. THOMAS-I offer the following as a substitute: The governor shall receivt for his services a compensation of ten thousand dollars per year, payable quarterly, on his own warrant. Mr. SMITH-I move to amend by making it eight thousand dollars. Mr. MORRIS-I move to amend by making it seven thousand dollars. [The last amendment was lost. The amendment of Mr. Smith was adopted, by a rising vote-yeas 42, nays 36. The substitute as amended was adopted. The secretary read:] Art. 12. He shall be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of this State, and of the militia thereof, except when they shall be called into the service of the United States. OSr. STArUFER-I move to strike out the words " army and navy of this State and the militia thereof," and to insert instead, "militia~ of this State." Under the old articles of confederation, a State had a right Geier, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Montamat, Morris, Ong, Payne J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Smith, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells-40. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Baum, Barrett, Bell, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Decker, Dufresne, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Hills, Howell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Montague, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Schnurr, Shaw, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Taliaferro, Wilson-45. [The motion to lay on the table was lost. The motion to reconsider was put and lost —ayes 30, noes 52. The secretary read article 6;] Art. 6. In case of impeachment of the governor, his removal from office, death, refusal or inability to qualify, resignation or absence from the State, the powers and duties of the office shall devolve upon'the lieutenant governor for the residue of the term, or until the governor, absent or impeached, shall return or be acquitted. The Legislature may provide by law for the case of removal, impeachment, death, resihnation, disability or refusal to qualify, of both the governor and lieutenant governor, declaring what officer shall act as governor, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or for the residue of the term. Mr. THOMAS-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 7. The lieutenant governor or offi- cer discharging the duties of governor, shall, during his administration, receive the r same compensation to which the governor would have been entitled had he continued in offic. Mr. BELL-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 8. The lieutenant governor shall, by virtue-of his office, be president of the Senate, but shall have only a casting vote therein. Whenever he shall administer the government, or shall be unable to attend as president of the Senate, the senators shall elect one of their own members as president of the Senate for the time being. Mr. FoLEY-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 9. While he- acts as president of the senate, the lieutenant governor shall receive DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION in certain contingencies to keep vessels of war, but the constitution declares that no State shall keep troops or ships of war in time of peace without the consent of Congress, etc. I think it will be arrogating to ourselves a little too much authority to say that Louisiana shall have an army and navy. Mr. CUTLER-I move to lay the amendment on the table. [The motion to table was lost, the amendment adopted, and the article was adopted a s am ended. The secretary read -:] Art. 13. He shall nominate. and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, app oin t all officers whose offices are established b y the consuttution,e and whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for: Provided, however, that the Legislatur e shall have a right to pr escrib e the mode of appointment to all other offices established by law. Mr. FOLEY —I move its a dop tion. [The motion was carried. The secretary read: ] Art. 14. The governor shall have power to fill vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of the next session, unless otherwise provided for in this constitution; but no person who has been nominated for office and rejected by the Senate shall be appointed to the same office during the recess of the Senate. Mr. BELL-I move to adopt. [The motion was carried. The secretary read: ] Art. 15. He may require information, in writing, from the officers in the Executive Department upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices. Mr. BUCKLEY-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read: ] Art. 16. He shall, from time to time, give'to the General Assembly information respecting the situation of the State, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he may deem expedient. Mr. DAVIES —I move we adopt it. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 17. He may, on extraordinary occasions, convene the General Assembly at the seat of governement, or at a different place if that -shall have become dangerous from an enemy or fr'om epidemic, and, in case of disagreement between the two Houses as to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to,such time + as he may think proper, not exceeding four months. Mr. DUANE-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read: ] Art. 18. He shall take care that the laws are faithfully execu ted. Mr. BELL-I move its adoption. [The motion w a s carried. The secretary read:] Art. 19. Every bill which s hall have passed both Houses, shal l be pre sented to the governor; iff h e a ppr ove he e shall sign it; if not, he shall return it with his objections to the House in which it originated, which shall enter the objections at large .upon its journal, and proceed to consider it. If, after such consideration, two-thirds of all the members elected to that House shall agre e to pass the bill, it shall be sent, with o n s o the objections, to the other House, by which it shall be lik ewise reconsidered, and if approved by two-thir ds of a ll the me mbers elected to that House, it shall be a law; but in such cases the vote of both Houses shall -be deter mined by yeas and nays, and the na mes of the members voting for or a gainst the bill shal l be entered on the journal of each House re spectively. If any bill shall not be r eturn ed by the governor within ten days (Sunda ys e xcepted) after it shall have been presented to him, it shall be a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Gener al Assembly, by adjournment, prevent its return, in which case it shall be a la w un less sen t back withi n three das after their noxt session. d., Mr. FoLYs-I move its adoption. [Mr. SMITH-I move, as an a m endment, to strike out " two-thirds of all the members elected," and in sert two-thirds o f the members presen t. " [The amendment was not seconded, and the article was adopted as read. The secretary read:] Art. 20. Every order, resolution or vote, to which the concurrence of both Houses may be necessary, except on a question of adjournment, shall be presented to the governor, and before it shall take effect, be approved by him, or, being disapproved, shall be repassed by two-thirds of the members elected to each House of the General Assembly. Mr. GORIINSKI-I move to adopt the article.~ ![The motion was carried. 260 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 261: Mr. ABELL-I move that all over fifty years of age be exempt. i Mr. SULLIVAN-I move to lay that substitute on the table. [The que stion was put a nd the chair declared the motion lost, but on division called for a rising vote was taken and the substih tute tabled-ayes 49, noes 20.] Mr. THOMAS-I move to amen d by striking out the word "free" in the first line, so that it shall read " all white men shall be armed," etc. Mr. STAUFFER-I mov e to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. ORR-I have a n ame ndment t o the amendment. I move that the a r ticle be altered so as to read, " all free white males between the ages of- 18 and 45 be armed and disciplined," etc., striking out all that portion relative to religious societies. Unless we strike that out everybody will be claiming to be Quakers, and we shall have nobody left to defend the country. Mr. MAN.N —The gentleman moves to strike out the word " free." I would like to knowifor what reason he desires to place arms in the hands,of criminals and convicts. Mr. STAUFFER-I accept the gentleman's amendments, except as to the word " free.** I think every man ought to be willing to take up arms in defence of the country. Mr. SULLIVAN-Mr. President, I move to lay the amendments on the table. [The question was put and carried by a rising vote-ayes 33, nays 30.] Mr. STAUFfER-Mr. President, I ask for a call of the roll. I do not think there is a quorum present. [The ayes and noes were called on the motion to lay on the table.] Mr. CAMPBELL-I would have preferred that the amendment should read " all men,,'? instead of all between 18 and 45. I vote The secretary read:] Art. 21. There shall be a secretary of State, who shall hold his office during the term for which the governor shall have been elected. The records of the State shall be kept and preserved in the office of the secretary; he shall keep a fair register of the official acts and proceedings of the governor, and when necessary shall attest them; he shall, when required, lay the said register, and all papers, minutes and vouchers relative to his office, before either House of the General Assembly, and shall perform such other duties as may be enjoined on him by law. Mr. DAvIES-I move we adopt it. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 22. There shall be a treasurer of the State, who shall hold his office during the term of two years. Mr. CAZABAT -I move to strike out "two " and insert "four." [The amendment was seconded and carried by a vote of 42 to 20, and the section as amended then adopted. The secretary read: ] Art. 23. The secretary of State and treasurer of State shall be elected by the qualified electors of the State. And in case of any vacancy caused by the death, resignation or absence of the secretary or treasurer of State, the governor shall order an election to fill said vacancy. Mr. BELL-I move its adoption, [The motion was carlied. The secretary read:] Art. 24. All commissions shall be in the name and by the authority of the State of Louisiana, and shall be sealed with the State seal and signed by the governor. Mr. BuCKLEY-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read: ] Art. 25. The free white men of the State shall be armed and disciplined for its defence; but those who belong to religious societies whose tenets forbid them to carry arms, shall not be compelled so to do, but shall pay an equivalent for personal services. Mr. STAUFFER —I offer the following substitute: All able-bodied citizens of the State shall be immediately armed and disciplined for the defence of the State, and those refusing so to do shall be immediately sent across the United States lines into the so-called Confederacy. no. Mr. BALCHi-I do not understand the question. PRESIDENT-SIt is on laying on the table Mr. Orr's amendment to strike out that portion of the article exempting members of religious societies. Mr. BATJ(H-I vote to lay all religious societies on the table. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION [The question was put and declared car ried; but upon a rising vote it was lost ayes 40, noes 30. The amendment was adopted.) Mr. DuAsx~ —I move to adjourn. [The question was put and declared car ried. The yeas and nays were demanded, with the following result:] YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Blfil, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Dufresne, Duane, Dupaty, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Hart, Hills, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maurer, Mayer, Murphy E., O'Conner, Orr, Poynot, Pursell S., Schnurr, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Sullivan, Terry-39. NAYS-Messrs. Ariail, Beauvais, Bell, Bonzano, Buckley, Cazabat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Edwards, Ennis, Goldman, Harnan, Henderson, Hire, Howell, Kugler, Maas Mann, Montague, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Seymour, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —41. [The motion to adjourn was lost.] Mr. STVUFFER-I desire that all after the word disciplined shall be stricken out. Every man, whatever sect he may belong to, has a right to bear arms in defence of his country, and I desire to see none excluded. This idea that a man belonging to any particular denomination or persuasion should have a horrlTor of bearing arms and should be excluded, is a novel one to be urged at a time like this. What that religious denomination is whose members are to be excluded I have not the faintest idea. As for myself, I am ready and willing to bear arms, and I desire that every man in the State shall be willing to bear arms in defence of the State, and that there shall be nothing to hinder him from so doing, let him belong to what religious denomination he may. It is a great and glorious privilege to bear arms in the defence of our country. It is a privilege that I would deny to none who are worthy of it. I would not by a constitutional enactment prohibit any from exercising it except for eigners-those who have borne arms against the United States, and there are many of them among us, living under the protection of foreign papers, I should not be so willing to excuse Mr. DuA-NF —I vote yes for the reason that all free men should be enrolled for the defence of the country. I contend that there are no slaves here now. Mr. MO.NTAGuE-I am in favor of the principle that all men should be required to defend the State. I am not in favor of incorporating in the fundamental law of the State a provision which will proh ibit calling upon those not between eighteen and fortyfive, for I believe all men should be required to defen d the State when it becomes necessary. I therefore vote yes. Mr. STAUFFER-I shall vote t o l ay the amendment on the table, as I have another to offer. Mr. WENCK-I shall vote yes on the ground that all are excluded above the age of forty-five. I think there are many men above that age capable of doing duty in the defence of a State, and they ought not to be excluded. [The result of the vote was as follows: ] YEAS-Messrs, Abell, Ariail, Balch, Barrett, Beauvais, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Crozat, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh,Knobloch, Mann. Maurer, Montamat, Murphy M. W.. Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Poynot. Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Waters, Wenck, Wells,-Wilson-59. NAY.s —Messrs. Baum. Bell, Bonzano, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Fish, Flood, Goldman, Gaidry, Healy, Henderson, Hills,,,Kiigler, Maas, Mayer, Morris, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Pursell S., Schroeder, Stumpf, Stiner, Thomas -28. [The motion to lay the amendment on the table was carried.] Mr. STAL-FFER-As my amendment was laid on the table, I desire to offer another. I desire to strike out and insert, so that the article shall read —" all able-bodied men between the ages of eighteen and fifty-five shall be armed and disciplined for the defence of the State.,' Mr. SMrrH-I move to amend by striking out the word " white," so that the article will read, " all the free men of the State," &C. Mr. M. W. MURPHY-a move to lay that amendment on the table. 262 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. under their plea of foreign citizenship or. their "religious" scruples; but foreigners who are such in good faith, and have remained neutral, I would not have enrolled. I am always willing to defend the flagaye, to defend it with my life, if necessary, as thousands and tens of thousands have done, in maintaining the integrity, the glory and the unity of our country, and the perpetuity of free institutions. They have sacrificed their lives on the altar of their country. I consider my own life as of no more valuie than theirs. I know no reason why I should be excluded from sacrificing my life on the same altar, made glorious by the blood of heroes. I s t a n d ready and willing t o do so; why s h o u l d I be excluded? Wh y should any man be excluded? It is a glorious thing to die for one's country; and for such a glorious country! a country whose emblem, the stars and stripes, is known, recognized and respected in every land and clime as the emblem of a free government, a government of the people. I do not say this for buncombe, Mfr. President, but what I sa.y I mean. I am opposed to excluding the members of tnv persuasion. No man, as a member of any religious society, as a Christian, has a right to ask to be excused from defending the country which guarantees to him the possession of his life, his property, with all the inestimable blessings of a free government, not the least of which is the right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. Mr. FOLEY-I mcve to adjourn. [The motion was lost. The question on the adoption of the article as amended was put and the article was lost.] Mr. Wrios —I move the adoption of the article as it stands. [The motion was carried. S.b,,rURDAY e, May 21, 1864. [The Convention was call ed to order at the usual hour. The following members answered to the ir n a mes on the f irs t roll-call:] Messrs. Abell, Ariail. Austin, Barrett, Baum, Bell, Bonzano, Bromley, Burke, Colin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies. Decker, Dufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Enni is, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Gorlinsk i, Gruneberg, slarnan, Hart, Hen d erson, Hill s, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Murphy M. W., No rmand, O'Conner, Orr, Pain e J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Sey mour, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry,; Wilson and Mr. Presi dent-64. [There being no quorum, the sergeant-at arms was dispatched as usual to bring in absent members. After the following members had entered, viz: Messrs. Barrett, Beauvais, Duane, Smith, Waters, Murphy E., Bofill, Buckley, Healy, Fosdick, Goldman, Montamat-12, the minutes of the previous day's proceedings were read and adopted.] Mr. FIsHf-Before the report of the Committee on the Executive Department is put on its third reading, I wish to move a suspension of the rules, in order to add another article providing for the election of an auditor. [The secretary read the report as adopted the previous day.] Mr. STAUFFER —I wish to have article 25 read again. [It was read by'he secretary.] Mr. STAUVFFER-I think the word "white' was stricken out, and that all after the word "1defence," in the second line, was also stricken out, so that it read, " The free men of the State shall be armed and disciplined for its defence." PRESIDENT —YOU are in error; it was finally adopted as reported. The secretary read:] Art. 26. The militia of the State shall be organized in such a manner as may be hereafter deemed most expedient by the Legislature. fr. TERRY —I move its adoption. [The motion was carried.) 263 Mr. BELL move to suspend the rules for the third reading of the report' (The motion was lost, 39 only voting in the affirmative.] Mr. FOLFY —I move to adjourn. [The motion was carried.] DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION be some five or six months before we do have one. As this body has fixed the basis of representation in order that the people shall be immediately represented, I am in favor of stating the salary of the various State officers until the Legislature shall otherwise provide for them. I have no objection to the Legislature increasing the salaries, as the times and position may require; but I object to thei r be in g cut down. for it o n ly tends to political s trife, and shall vote f or th is rider. Mr. ABEPLe-I wi sh every step of this Convention to be taken with as much certainty as possible. I do not think the amount of the salaries of these officers is exorbitant, and if any chang e was made in the amendment, it should be inserted that the salaries should not be diminished but might be increased, if the Legislature thought proper. I vote for large salaries and faithful services. [Mr. Cutler's rider was adopted.] Mr. STAUFFER-Mr. President. I wish to offer a rider to article 25. PRESIDENT-That is already adopted and is a part and parcel of the constitution of the State. The next business in order is the order of the day-the report of the Committee on the Judiciary, on itf second reading. Mr. ABELL-This is one of the most im portant questions that has been before this body, and as we have been so successful in commencing on the first of the week, I move that it be made the special order of .the day for Monday. Mr. HiLIs-I rise to a question of order. The rider of Mr. Cutler was adopted, but not the report. PRESIDEsNT —The adoption of the rider is the adoption of the report. Mr. HENDERSION-I move to lay the mo tion on the table. [The motion was carried, on a rising vote-yeas 36, nays 33. The report was then read by the secre taMr. MONTAN.IT-I move to adjourn. Mr. TERRY-I call for the yeas and nays. [The roll was called, with the following result:] YrAs —Messrs. Abell, Belk, Burke, Coilin, Mr. CUTLER-I move as a rider to the report amendments to articles 9, 22 and 23, as follows: In article 9 strike out all before the word " the," in the first line, and after the word d"services," in the second line, st rike out to the end of the article, and substitut e t he words: " A salary of five thousand dollars per annum, payable quarterly, on his own warrant," s o that the article w ill read: " The lieu ten ant governor shall receive for his serv ices a salary of five thous and dollars per annum, payable quarterly, on his own warrant." In article 22 strike out the word "1 two," in the second line, a nd insert " fou r," and after the words " treasurer of state," in the first line, insert "and auditor of p ub lic accounts;" and strike out "his office," in th e f irst and s eond lines, and on insert " their offices.,,' In article 23a afterc the words " treasurer of state,"' in s ert the words " and auditor of public accounts.77 ir. President, I th in k the omission of mention of a uditor in yesterday's action wa s merely a m istake, and only needs to be s ugges ted to b e corrected. I would a ls o suggest the propriety of fixing t he salaries of these officers. You have increased the salary of the governor to eigh t thous and doll ars. The secretary of state and the treasurer receive each $2000, and t he au ditor of public ac counts $4000. It-strikes me that that is al together t oo low, and therefo re ought to m ak e t hem at least $5000. Mr. HOWELL-I wis h t o say simpl y that it has been the invariable custom in this State for the Legislature t o fi x the salaries. The representatives in the Legislatu re are gen- erally d irect from the people, and are pre sumed to know the condition of the coun try a nd their constituents. I think it would be as well to let the matter alone; I have no doubt the Legislature will do ample justice to these officers —as much so as this Convention. It may be the Legislature will give them higher salaries, but my only objection is that I think it is a matter that should be left to the Legislature. Mr. HENDERsox —The difficulty in regard to the question of compensation is this: we have no Legislature, and probably it will I 264 4 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. be elected by the people for the term of ten years." Mr. ABELII-Mr. President, I think, sir, we are going over this matter altogether too hastily. To the second article I had an amendment which is on the secretary's table, and shoul d ha ve been disposed of before the article was put on its passage. There are several other a mendments in the same condition. I contend, sir, that these amnendments were i n order and should have been put and that the chair has no right to attempt to rush matters through in this summary manner, regardless of parliamentary rules. I shall not, however, move a reconsiderati ov i tion n ow, but I think the Convention should adjourn an d take up properly and orderly this subject. I do not wish to delay the progress of this Convention, but wish to push business as fast as justice and prudence will allow. I wish to state that several leading members gave me their word they would adjourn this report until Monday. Now, sir, 1 shall move an adjournment until Monday, and then I shall move a reconsideration. Mr. FOLEY-I move we adjourn. Mr. SCHPOEDER —I am always opposed to adjournment, but under present circumstances I think it is necessary to do justice to gentlemen who have amendments, and shall vote yes. Mr. STAUFFER —I do qot want to remain in this Convention unless I can do my duty. It is now only half-past I o'clock —a quorum was not present until half-past 12. We receive ten dollars each per day for our labors, and I am opposed to adjourinent before we have done a good Oday's work I vote no. [The motion to adjourn was carried.] Cook T., Decker, Dufresne, Dupaty, Flagg, Foley, Fosdick, GastinAl, Gaidry, Gruneberg, Hart, Healy, Henderson, Knobloch, Mayer, Montamat, Purcell J., Schroeder, Seymour, Smith, Stocker, Stiner, Sullivan, Waters-29. NAYs-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bonzano, Bromley, Collin, Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Fuller, Geier, Harnan, Hills, Howell, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, Millspaugh, Montague, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell. Normand, Orr, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Schnurr, Spellhey, Stauffer, Tali'al(rro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck. Wilson 49. [The motion was lost. The secretary read:] Art. 1. The judiciary power shall be vested in a Supreme Court, in such inferior courts as the Legislature may, from time to time, order and establish, and in justices of the peace. Mr. BELL-I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 2. The Supreme Court, except in cases hereafter provided, shall have appelate jurisdiction only; which jurisdiction shall extend to all cases when the matter in dispute shall exceed three hundred dollars; to all castes in which the constitutionality or legality of any tax, toll or impost whatsoever. or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation, shall be in contestation; and to all criminal cases on questions of law alone whenever the offence charged is punishable with death or imprisonment at hard labor, or when a fine exceeding three hundred dollars is actually imposed. Mr. BELI —I move its adoption. [The motion was carried. The secretary read:] Art. 3. The Supreme Court shall be composed of one chief justice and four associate justices, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum. The chief justice shall receive a salary of ten thousand dollars. and each of the associate justices a salary of nine thousand dollars, annually, until otherwise provided by law. The court shall appoint its own clerks. Mr. SULLIVAN-I move to amend by striking out the word "ten," in the third line, and inserting "eight;" and by striking out, in the fourth line, the word "nine'" and inserting "seven," and by adding to the fifth line the words: "The judges shall 34 265 MON,I)AY, i'day 23, 1864. [The Convention was called to order at the usual hour. The assistant secretary being sick, the president appointed Messrs. Winfree and Reuss, and called )fr. Hills to the,chair. The secretary called the roll, and the following gentlemen answered to their names:1 Afessrs. Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bromley, Buck DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION - For the St. Vincent Orphan Asylum, 500 1, For the Moreau Street Orphan Asy, lum........................... 500 1,ier MiTotal,............... $o21,000 Xmn y J, JOHN HENDERSON, JR., Chairman. Pie Mr. SULLIVAN-I move to amend by add f ing the Firemen's Charitable Association for $5000. s Mr. DAVIES-I move to lay the amende ment on the table. [The ayes and noes were called on the r motion to lay on the table.] Mr. PURSELL-I rise to a point of order. , Before any action can be taken on that ' report, it is necessary to receive it. It has , not been received yet. , PREsIDENT —The chair would state that the mere action on the report is a reception of it; that while it is not improper to make a motion to receive it, such a motion is not necessary; the action on it is a reception of the report. - [The result of the vote was as follows: ] 1 YEAs-Messrs. Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Gaidry, Goldman, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Hen derson, Hills, Howell, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, Ong, Pintado, Poynot, ) Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Stauffer, Thorpe, Wells-38. NAYs —Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bar rett, Balch, Bailey, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, ) Buckley, Cook J. K., Crozat, Decker, Duke, WDufresne, Gastinel, Geier, Healy, Howes, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Morris, Monta nmat, Orr, Payne J., Purcell J., Pursell S., Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stumpf; Stiner, Sullivan, Terry, Waters, Wenck,Wilson —38. | [There being a tie vote, the motion was > lost.] Mr. HENDERSON-I now move to lay the report and amendments all on the table. I don't want men to come up here Mr. TERRY-I amend "subject to call." Mr. HENDERSON-I meant no subject to call. I want to see this body disgraced, as they have shown a disposition to treat this matter in this manner. [The ayes and noes were called.] Mr. ABELL-I desire to explain my vote. I voted to lay the report on the table on the ground simply that we are not sent here as a legislative body. If I was a member of the Legislature, and such a ley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Crozat, Da vies, Duane, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Flood Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Healy, Henderson Hills, Howell, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas Mendiverri, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell Normand, Payne J., Pintado, Purcell J. Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauf fer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thomas, Waters Wenck and Mr. President-54. [The sergeant-at-arms was dispatched, a usual, to bring in absent members to make a quorum; after which the following gen tleman entered and answered to their names:] Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Cazabat, Dufresne Fish. Flagg, Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, Gruine berg, Hart, Howes, Knobloch, Maurer Mayer, O'Conner, Ong, Poynot,. Stocker Orr, Thorpe and Wilson —22. [The minutes of the previous day's pro ceedings were then read and adopted.] Mr. SHAw-The Committee on Ordinance reports progress. Mr. HENDERmSON —The Co mmittee on Char - ity reports as follows. They recommen an app ropriation of $21,000, to be di stributed as follows: For the Orpha ns' Home, in New Orleans........................7 $1500 For the St. Mary's Catholic Orphan Boys' Asylum in New Orleans,... 4000 For the Female Orphan Asylum,, Camp Street,......... 4000 For the House of the Good Shep herd,........................... 250 For the Jewish Widows' and Or phans' Asylum,................. 500 For the St. Joseph Catholic Orphan Asylum,........................ 1500 For the St. Elizabeth House of In dustry,......................... 1000 For the Society for the relief of the Orphan Boys, Fourth District,..... 1000 For the Institution for Indigent Col ored Boys, Third District,........ 1000 For the Ladies of Providence, Third District,......................... 750 For St. Anna's Asylum for Destitute Widows and Children,............ 1500 For the Children's Home of the Protestant Episcopal Church,..... 500 For the Catholic Institute of Desti tute Orphans,.................... 750 For the Catholic Benevolent Associ- I ation, Baton Rouge,............. 250 For the Female Orphan Asylum, Baton Rouge,................... 500 For the St. Vincent Orphan Asylum Donaldsounvlle,...................... 500 For the Milne Asylum, New Orleans,............. 500 266 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA, 267 resolution should be brought up, I wouild vote for it with all my heart; but I believe this body has no power to pass such a bill. [Mr. Shaw was called to the chair by Mr. Hills.] Mr. BuCLEy —I wish to explain my vote. As I see there is a majority here who wish to keep money away from'the widows and orphans of the firemen of New Orleans, I vote no, because I am in favor of all charitable institutions. Mr. GOLDMAN —I wish to explain my vote. When I want to do an act of charity, I do it out of my own private means, not out of funds that belong to the public. I vote yes. Mr. HAIRNAN-Gentlemen stand here and argue about the want of power to make this appropriation. I know these institutions to be in a state of starvation, and therefore I shall vote to lay the amendments on the table, "hocus pocus." Mr. MAN,N-Before I vote I want to be satisfied that this Convention has a right to make this appropriation. I should vote no, if I was satisfied that we had such a right; but as I am not satisfied of it, I vote yes. Mr. MORRIS-I vote yes, because I believe we are not a legislative body, and have no -ower to make any such appropriation. Mr. ORR-I wish to explain my vote. I stand before this Convention as the advocate of public charity, and shall endeav or to carry out my views as far as possible. I consider the Firemen's Charitable Association as an institution worthy of our consideration, and I can see no grounds for excluding it. I have not voted on the amendment, but when the bill comes up I shall vote for it, as I shall vote far every bill that has for its object the maintenance of charitable associations for the benefit of the widow and the orphan. I vote no. [The result of the vote was as follows: ] YEAs-Messrs. Abell,Ariail,Austin, Balch, Bromley, Burke, Collin, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Fuller, Goldman, Hart, Har nan, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, Morris, Newell, Normand, Ong, Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Stauffer, Wenck-41. NAYS-Messrs. Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Dufresne, Duane, Dupa,y Duke, Foley, Gasti I No. 46........ 1,876 00 — 8,299 00 $47,186 40 May 23 —Balance on hand to date of the funds appropriated for the payment of per diem of members and salaries of officers, forty-seven thousand one hundred and eighty-six dollars and forty cents. REPORT OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE OF THE FUNDS APPROPRIATED FOR CONTINGENT EXPENSES. May 17-Balance on hand as per report No. 5............ $9,585 48 May 20 —Paid M. De Coursey, warrant No. 45.....826 00 warrant No. 45......... 826 00 $8,759 48 May 23 —Balance on hand this day, eight thousand seven hundred and fifty nine dollars and forty-eight cents. May 18 —The sum of fifteen thousand dollars was paid to W. ]R. Fish, for printing and advertising, on warrant No. 37, out of the funds not otherwise appro priated by the Convention, as appears per voucher No. 5, bn file. JOHN P. MONTAMAT, Chairman pro tem. Mr. HOWELL-It seems that there was some misunderstanding yesterday about 268.. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION amendments to the first and second sections of the report of the Committee on the Judiciary. I therefore, in order to give a fair opportunity to discuss the amendments, move a reconsideration of our action in adopting them. (The motio n wa s carried.] PRESIDENT-The next business in order is the order ofa the d ay, the r eport of the Committee on the Judiciary. [The secretary read:] Article 1. The judi ciar y po we r shall be vested in a Supreme Court, in such inferior courts as the Legislature may, ifrom time to time, order and establish, and in justices of the peace. Mr. FOLEY-I move it s adoption. [The motion was carri ed. The secretary read:] Art. 2. The Supreme Court, except in cases hereinafter provided, shall have appellate jurisdiction only; which jurisdiction shall extend to all cases when the matter in dispute shall exceed three hundred dollars; to all cases in which the constitutionality or legality of any tax, toll or impost whatsoever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation, shall be in contestation; and to all criminal cases on questions of law alone whenever the offence charged is punishable with death or imprisonment at hard labor, or when a fine exceeding three hundred dollars is actually imposed. [Also, Mr. Abell's amendment:] It shall have a general superintending control over all inferior and other courts of law; shall have power to issue writs of errors and supersedeas, certiorari, habeas corpus and quo warranto and other remedial writs, and to hear and determine the same. pellate jurisdiction, both of law and fact, is one that has been co mmented upon by the entire legal ability of th is State for many years, not only in regard to civil cases, but also criminal cases. It is for the Convention to say whe ther in the am ended constit ution it is proper that the supreme court should be invested wi th the po wer to examine and determine upon the fact s of a crimin al c ase a s well as the law. It may be that some judges may be w r ong in their views, but we must adopt general principles a nd look to the good of the people at lar ge. If we make this great inroad upon the constitution, we shall do that whic h will take much time and labor to accomplish. We should confer upon the supreme court duties wh i ch would o ccupy two-thirds of its time. It w ould be en tirely beyond a ll pre - cedent a nd reason to place the supreme court in a position to hea r th e testimony of the witnesses for and against the accused. It seem s to me that twelve honest men with the judge is sufficient; they a re the p ersons who see eve ry nerve and mu scle move on the face of the witnes s. If the verdict of the jury is e rroneous in law, let the supreme court judge of that error. There is probably not one of you who has not been on a jury, and no one here wi ll say that twelve men with the judge a re no t better qua lified to e cde cide upo n the evidence in any case tha n would be a court, who never saw the witnesses or perhaps n o t even the accused. What do you want o ther tha n the report of this committee? I t is in strict conformity with those provisions which have been decided upon by such minds as those of Grimes, our own esteemed Roselius and Durant, and in fact of all t he able men who have practiced at the Lou is iana bar for years, and were in the conve ntion when a similar section was adopted. Why should we undertake to make this inroad at this particular time? Irn coming back to the question we are to vote upon-whether the amendment of Mr. Abell shall be made a part of the constitution of 1864, or not, let me tell you that that power is already in the supreme court, which should never lose its dignity. If I have made myself understood, I am satisfied. Mr. HOWELL —As chairman of the orn Mr. CUTLER-UI think the amendment is calculated to destroy the results of the action of many wise m en on t his subject. It gives to the supreme court a supervisory power. The power given to the supreme court by the constitutions of 1845 and 1852 is fillly expressed in the report of the committee. The code of practice has fixed the law under these provisions. If there is to be any amendment to the second article, I would suggest as a practical lawyer of the State-one who has had occasion to try all these questions-that the only proper amendment is that of Mr. Henderson. ~ The question of giving the supreme court ap AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. mittee which reported on the subject before us, I conceive it is my duty to present its views in adopting that section as taken from the constitution of 1852. My remarks apply only to the substitute under consideration. If you take it as a substitute, and I confess I can look at it in no other light, it almost destroys the usefulness and power of the Supree Court. If gen tle me n will look at th e second article of th e r eport t hey will see the powers of the Supreme Court there defined. This proposition is presented a s a substitute, and i t simply say s th e Supreme Cour t " shall have a superintending control over all inferior and other courts of law." I t does not say it shall hav e appellate jurisd iction over any othe r court, and th at any p a rty agai ns t whom a j udgm en t shall b e rendered in any other court shall have a right to a ppeal t o the Supreme Court for relief. It may b e conte nded that the Legislature, under this, will provide a remedy of that kind, but that is a very indirect mode of arriv ing a t ht what th e repor t h as already established. Taken as a amend - mernt, it is a ltog et her u nnecessary and useless, because the article it proposes to amend has given appellate jurisdiction only. I then contend and respectfully submit to this Convention, that this proposition, either as an amendment or substitute, is entirely useless, and for that reason I shall vote against it. Mr. ABELL-I rise for the purpose of answering, to some extent, arguments which seem to me illogical. The gentlemen have not understood the object and nature of the amendment offered by myself. The gentleman from the Fourth (Mr. Cutler) has begged the question, and has brought up a matter not before the Convention.- The amendment of the gentleman from the Second (Mr. Henderson) rather adds, not subtracts, anything from the report of the committee. Under that gentleman's proposition, a partial or corrupt judge may, where the amount in dispute is less than $300, oppress a man who is entirely remediless. Suppose a judge is my enemy, and on my being brought before him for having committed an assault and battery, almost in self-defence, he intends to injure me. Now, when the jury bring in a verdict of guilty and recommends me to the mercy of the court, he unjustly sentences me to nearly two years' imprisonment, or fines me $299 99, and I am remediless. I say I want a bill of exceptions; I cannot have it under the circumstances, and there is no appeal. Mr. CUTLER-I wish to correct the gent le man. The only question is, shall the Supreme Court become one of inferior character, or shall it maintain its dignity? The gentleman is wrong when he says that it is only in case of a fine of three hundred dollars that an appeal lies. There is no such thing stated in the original report or in the constitution of 1852. The imprisonment is at hard labor, or a fine of three hundred dollars. The bill of exceptions goes to the Supreme Court in every one of the cases supposed by the gentleman (Mr. Abell.) The only question, then, is whether we shall adopt what seems to me to be this anomaly, this extraordinary proposition, to make a mere machine of the great court of Louisiana. My friend from the Seventh (Judge Howell) is correct when he says that if you adopt this, either as a substitute or an amendment, you disturb the great power and fundamental principles of the Supreme Court of the State. Mr. ABELL-I am very much astonished at the gentleman's readiness to dodge this question. I ask him, as a lawyer, whether there can be an appeal from a charge of assault and battery. Mr. CUTLER-The gentleman does not understand that Mr. ABELL-I do, and you cannot blind me. I ask the judge of the Fifth District Court, now before me, whether I can appeal from a judgment against me of $299 99. Judge Hanlon-"nNo, sir.?' Mr. ABELj —That is right, sir. You do not dodge the question. My amendment will remedy this, and therefore I claim that it shall be put. [The question was put;, a viva voce vote was undecisive, and the roll was called, resulting as follows:] YEAS —Messrs. Abell, Balch, Bailey, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, 269 DEBATES IN THE CONV-ENTION FOR THE REVISION Messrs. Baum, Cutler, Duane, Dupaty, Fuller, Gastinel, Gaidry, Harnan, Hart, Howes. Kugler, Mayer, Mendiverri, Murphy E., Schroeder, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Thorpe, Waters, Wilson-21, The minutes of the prev ious day's proceedings were re ad.] Mr. ABEL —I want the words'"no quorum," in reference to the vote on my amendment, stricken out. My amendment was carried, and I wish it so stated in the minutes. Thirty-seven is a majority of the votes, and under the repeated ruling of this House a quorum must be presumed to be present. Mr. STAUFFER-The chair did not decide the motion carried. I called on him for his decision when the motion to adjourn was made. Mr. HENDERSON-Both gentlemen are correct. A gentleman rose to a question that there was no quorum. A motion to adjourn was made and carried, without the announcement-of any decision on that question by the chair. Mr. S. PURSELL-That statement is cor Cook T., Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Duke, Ennis, Flood, Gaidry, Gruneberg, Knobloch, Maurer,Mayer, Mendiverri,Montamat, Murphy E., MurphyM. W., Normand, Ong, Orr, Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Stiner, Stocker, Stumpf, Terry and Waters-37. NAYS-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Barrett Beauvais, Bromley, Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Edwards, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hire, Howell, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Morris, Newell, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stauffer, Sullivan and Wilson-33. [Cries of " no quorum, and mov e we adjourn." The ayes and nays were taken upon the question of adjournment, with the following result:] YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Duke, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Flood, Fuller, Gastinel, Goldman, Gruneberg, Hart, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Poynot, Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters-43. NAYS-Messrs. Ariail, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bromley, Collin, Dupaty, Ennis, Geier, Gaidry, Henderson, Hire, Howell, Kugler, Mann, Morris, Newell, Normand, Payne J., Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Stauffer, Stiner, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-30. [The Convention adjourned.] rect. Mr. ABELE-I now move that the president declare that vote carried, if Mr. Shaw ha d not the nerve to do it. I want the president to decide it, and the n, if gentlemen want to move a reconsideration, I have no objection. Mr. CUTLER-I do not think it is a question of nerve. There was no quorum voting. Mr. ABELL-It was carried. No gentleman has a right to go upon the presumption that there was not a quorum present. PRESIDENT — As gentlemen very well know, the chair has always decided that when a votewas taken, whether the compound sum of t h e ayes and noes was sutfficient to constitute a quorum or not, the question was always carried by the majority vote, without regard to the number of votes cast. It makes no difference if the majority were not more than ten or even five, the question is carried unless a call of the House is asked for, and it is ascertained, and a quorum found, on calling the roll, not to be present. Any gentleman has a right to move a call of the House to ascertain whether a quorum is present, but until TUESDAY, May 24, 1864. [At the usual hour the Convention was called to order, and the following members answered to their names:] Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Collin, Cook T., Cook J. K.. Davies, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick. Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg; Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Montamat,q Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Terry, Wenck, Wells, and Mr. President-58. [There being no quorum. the sergeantat-arms was dispatched to bring in absentees. The following getlemen having t aken their seats, viz: 270 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. sick, it seems to me that it would be unfair to take this action against him. Mr. ABEL-Let us forgive him this time, and if he does not come up within a day or two, I would be in favor of adopting such a resolution. Mr. MONTAMAT-If it was the first time, I would forgive him; but it is eight or ten times. I Mr. HILLS —NO action can be taken on the resolution to-day. Mr. HENDERSONI-I wish to call attention to the fact that the other assistant secretary, to whose faithfulness you can all bear testimony, is sick. I have in my hand a letter requesting a leave of absence for him for a few days. [The request was granted without objection.] PRESIDENT —On the committee to wait on Gen. Banks and invite him to visit this Convention, I name Mr. Montamat, Mr. Shaw, Mr. Cutler, Mr. Howell and Mr. Heard. Mr. TERRY-Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That the sum of on e h undred dollars is hereby allowed out of any funds ine the State treasury, not otherwise appropriated, to defray the expenses necessary for the enrollment on parchment, framing, etc., of the act of emancipation, in English and French, adopted by this Convention on the 11th day of May, 1864. Mr. STOCKER —I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That the sum of twenty-two thousand five hundred dollars be, and the same i s here by, a ppropriat ed out of any money now in the treasury, not otherwise appropriated, for charitable purposes. Be it further Resolved, That a committee of five be appointed by the chair to carry the above resolution into effect. Mr. THORPE-I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That the official printer be requested to publish every morning, in the True Delta, as full a report of the previous day's proceedings of the Convention as possible, including the votes on the call for yeas and nays, and so much of the debates as will give to members of the RHuse a clear idea of each day's proceedings. Mr. HAR,''-, —I move a suspension of the rules for ics adoption. [The motion was lost.] Mr. HENDERSON-On the report on charitable institutions, I voted to lay the report on the table. I now move a resolution that that is done, it must be presumed to be present. But this is a question on the adoption of the minutes, and it is not the province of the chair to decide whether they are correct or not; that can only be decided by the House. [The question was put and the minutes were adopted as read, on a rising vote-ayes 43, noes 18.] Mr. MONTAmAT-1 have a resolution to offer, and move a suspension of the rules for its adoption: Resolved, That Maj. Gen. N. P. Banks and staff be respectfully invited to visit this Convention, and that a committee of five members be appointed by the chair to wait on Gen. Banks and communicate this resolution to him. [The resolution to suspend the rules was carried and the resolution adopted.] Mr. HILLs-I have a resolution which I desire to offer: Whereas, The absence of a few members at the 12 o'clock roll-call results in a great delay of business; therefore, Resolved, That the members of the Convention who do not answer to their names within fifteen minutes after 12 o'clock M., shall forfeit their per diem allowance for every day of such absence. Mr. MONTAMAT-I have another resolution, Mr. President: Resolved, That the office of assistant secretary, occupied by Mr. T. H. Murphy, be declared vacant. Resolved further, That the secretary be authorized to appoint a suitable person to fill said vacancy during the balance of the session. In offering this resolution, I will remark, that I am the one that nominated Mr. Murphy for assistant secretary. I worked for him and got him a good many votes which he would not otherwise have received, but he has acted very badly. I am sorry he has done so, and now I can see nothing better that can be done than to declare the position vacant. Mr. CUTLER-I hold in my hands a letter sent to me this morning by Mr. Murphy, setting forth that he is sick and unable to be present, and asking for a leave of absence. I beg leave to present it for the consideration of the Convention. I do not know what may be the cause for the gentleman's not appearing, but if he is really 271 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVION we reconsider the vote on tabling that re port. Mr. HmLLS —I was appointed one of the Committee on Charitable Institutions, and the first that I knew of the action of that committee was the report which came in signed,'-on behalf of the committee, John Henderson, Jr.," which report I never saw nor heard of until it was laid before the Convention. I have said, however, that if the matter could rest until the very last of the session, that I would be in favor of voting for the appropriation. But I think it injudicious to press the matter now, be cause I think it would be opening a danger ous door to appropriations, and check our progress in the work we have been sent here to do. I therefore believe that it will be better for the matter to rest until the rest of the business is done, and move to lay the resolution to reconsider on the table. [The motion was carried.] Mr. CAMPBELL-I wish to ask, for informa tion, why the special committee (on charity) to whom was referred my amendment, have reported without making any mention of my amendment? They have made their report, but have not reported on my amend ment. I ask that they be instructed to re port on it. PRESIDENT-The committee have made their report. Silence is sometimes a report that speaks in very loud tones. Mr. AUSTIN-Two members of the Committee on the Auditor's Report are absent, and I would ask the appointment of two others in their places. PRESIDENT —I appoint Mr. Cutler and Mr. Heard. [The secretary read a communication from the secretary of state, enclosing one from the state librarian:] STATE OF LOUiSLINA, OFFICE OF SECRETARY OF STATE, New Orleans, May 23, 1864. To the honorable president and members of the Constitutional Convention of Louisi ana: GENTLEMEN-Herewith I enclose to you a report, addressed to me by the State librarian, relative to a portion of the State library, which was saved just previous to the destruction of the capitol, in December, 1862. These books are a part of some 80,000 volumes of works published by thec State of Louisiana and by the United States, which could not be removed when the Union forces evacuated Baton Rouge, in the previous August. About 4500 volumes were conveyed by the librarian to a place of security, and can be removed to this city at a comparatively small expense. Now, there is no fund for the expenses of the library, and as these works are necessary for the use of the State officers, I would respectfully suggest that an appropriation of dollars be made for the object herein mentioned and for the general expenses of the State library. I have the honor to be, gentlemen, very respectfully, your obedient servant, S. WROTNOWSKI, Secretary of State. STATE LIBRARY, 1 New Orleans, May 23, 1864. Hon. S. Wrotnovski, Secretary of State: SiR —In the month of December, 1862, under the apprehension that the State House might be destroyed by shells from the fleet, or by incendiaries on shore, I removed about 4500 volumes of State law works to a se cure place, some twelve miles southeast of the capitol, in a Masonic lodge, where they remained in safety. These works, consisting of reports of the Supreme Court, late acts of the Legis latuire and revised statutes, are necessary to the several State officers, and could be brought down here at a comparatively small expense. But, as there has been no appropriation made to this department during the last two or three years, I do not know to Whom to apply for relief. Yours, respectfully, I. N. CXARIIGAN State Librarian. Mr. HILLS —I move the matter be referred to a special committee of three. [The motion was carried.] PRESIDENT —I appoint Messrs. Hills, Howell and Campbell. Mr. FLOOD-Am I in order to offer an amendment to the fourteenth article of the report of the Committee on the Judiciary Department? PRESIDENT-Not in order. Mr. ABELL-I now ask the President to declare my amendment carried on the vote of yesterday. PRESIDE.nT-The Convention has declared the minutes correct. Mr. ABELi-Then what will you do with the amendment; is it again open for discussion? 272' AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 273 tion decided that the minutes were correct. The minutes show that the question was not decided. Now the question is upon the adoption of the amendment of Mr. Abell. Mr. PURSELL —I move the previous question. Mr. SHAW-I second the motion. Mr. ABEL-I hope the gentleman will withdraw his motion. [The motion was withdrawn.] Mr. ABELL —I want to know if the question comes up de novo. PRESIDENT-It does. Mr. ABEL —Mr. President Mr. PURSELL-I rise to a point of order. The gentleman has spoken on it already. PRESIDENT-He has not spoken on it today. The question comes up anew. Mr. ABELL-It has heen long the case when a man goes to the supreme court, however grievous his complaint of the wrong and injustice of the court below, if his claim was less than three hundred dolla s, he could get no redress. The court says we cannot hear the case because it is not within the purview of the appellate jurisdiction of this court. I could bring thirty decisions in proof. I ask for jurisdiction to be given to that court, as proposed in my amendment, because it is impartant to the people of the State for the protection of their rights. I never haveany suits of my own and have no personal interest in the matter; but, sir, I ask you whether or not, when you go to the supreme court and present a fair showing that a wrong has been done and demand a remedy, you will get it? The court will tell you at once, if the amount is less than three hundred dollars, that they cannot hear the case, because it is not within the appellate jurisdiction vested in that court. They are without power, and therefore you are without remedy. I say that if you go to the supreme court when the sum is under three hundred dollars, or even over three hundred dollars, when the facts are in con troversy, the court will tell you that however evident your rights may be, you have no remedy. What remedy does the gentleman propose when the amount is less than three hundred dollars? None in the world. PRESIDENT —The business of the day commences with the second section of the report of the Committee on the Judiciary. M1. Secretary, read the article, with Mr. Abell's amendment and Mr. Henderson's amen'dmenrt. [The secretary read art. 2 of the judiciary report, with the following amend AN AMENDMENT TO THE REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY DEPART MENT. Art. 2. The Supreme Court, except in cases hereafter provided, shall have appelate jurisdiction only, both as to law and fact, with such excceptions and with such regulations as the Legislature shall. make, which jurisdiction shall extend to all cases when the matter in dispute shall exceed three hundred dollars, exclusive of interest; to all cases in which the constitutionality or legality of any tax, toll or impost whatsoever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation shall be in contestation, and to all criminal cases. SUBSTITUTE TO ARTICLE TWO OF REPORT OF JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. Art. 2. It shall have a general superintending control over all interior and other courts of law; shall have power to issue writs of errors and supersedeas, certiorari, habeas corpus and quo warranto and other remedial writs, and to hear and determine the same. EDMUND ABELL. PRESIDENT-The question is on the amendment of Mr. Henderson-that was the last. Mr. ABELI-Mine was the last offered. Mr. SuHw —The gentleman is correct; his amendment was the last offered, and was under discussion when the Convention adjourned yesterday. Mr. HENDERSON-My amendment was prior to that of Mr. Abell. PRESIDENT-The amendment of Mr. Abell is then before the House. Mr. SHAW-Is not the retaking of the vote on that question now in order? Mr. ABELL-It was the duty of the chair to decide that question yesterday. It must be decided or this Convention will present an anomaly. PRESIDEN-T-that question arose upon reading the minutes. The chair decided gpthing on that question, and the Conven 35 ments:] JOH.,N HE\DERSO-4, JR. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION They tell you you are among the unfortunate and you have to stand it, for the supreme court has no power to give you relief. There is no remedy in the world, directly or indirectly, for the man aggrieved in the lower court, if his claim is less than three hundred dollars, unless the constitutionality of a law is called in question. A man may be fined two hundred and ninetynine dollars-the court may go to the extent of the law-and he has no remedy, unless he is sentenced to imprisonment at hard labor and fined three hundred dollars. I repeat to-day that I desire to hold the lash over those judges who may wrong my clients or your constituents, and my substitute does it. If you will adopt it, when you are wronged you will have a remedy. The inferior courts will be under the control of the supreme court; and knowing that that court has power to compel them to do right, there will be little need for the exercise of that power. the case of murder, t reas on, felony, or any other offence, where the pe nalt y i s imprisonment in the penitentiary, there is an appeal; but in that class of cases known as misdemeanors, where the penalty does not require imprisonment in the penitentiary, you are without appeal, unless the fine, which is in the discretion of the judge, is over three hundred dollars. This may work a most serious injury, in many cases. Suppose, for instance, in that very common case, simple assault and battery, many cases of which are deserving of but slight notice, so prone are men under various circumstances to indulge the belligerent propensities with which nature has endowed them; suppose, for instance. I should strike my friend from the Second District,(Mr. Hills,) I am brought before the criminal court. The law says no words will jastify an assault and battery. Now, s-r, the judge of the First District Court has the right, as well as power, tob say,' You shall go to the parish prison for two years, and I will fine you, in addition, two hundred and ninety-nine dollars. I will take good care that you do not appeal. You are no friend' of mine." This he has the power to do, in the simplest case of assault; and. sir, however unjust or cruel the decision. there is no appeal from it. Any judge of the criminal court can mulct you in a sum less than three hundred dollars, and-, in addition, incarcerate you in the parish prison for two years, and you have no remedy. I do not blame the representatives of the judiciary, in this Convention, for not voting with me, because my substitute proposes to hold the lash over them. Perhaps they may have an enemy they want to punish, or a friend they want to favor. I want the lash held over them, so that they shall not be able to do it; and if my substitute is adopted, they will not attempt it. This will prove a remedy that Will be effectual. In this report there is no remedy for the class of cases I have alluded to, and for which I want to see a remedy provided. If a judge puts his hand into your pocket and takes out a sum under three hundred dollars, you have no remedy. There have been rascals on the bench, and may be again, who will take advantage of their position to punish an enemy, bring the judiciary into contempt, and wronging the individual. I wish to prevent a recurrence of the like dangers in the fiture. There are some men who would be utterly ruined by the loss of three hundred dollars, and yet the district judges have the power and the final jurisdiction, where they make the fine less than that sum. I t is in the criminal branch of our jurisprudence that the great error is found. Ill The impeachment of the judge, after yos, have suffered to the extent of his ability to punish you, does not reach the case. It does not right your wrong. True, such cases may occur, but rarely, but we may again have a Jeffries on the bench, and we O~~~ 274 Suppose he refuses you a subpoena for a witness, upon whom your defence depended, you have no remedy. There have beep such cases as this. There are hundreds of men who will inflict an judgment if they have the power. Suppose I was to ask for a continuance on proper grounds and it.was to be refused, where is the power that would aid me There is none, though the.decision should be of the most arbitrary and unjust character. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 275 peace to the Third District Court, but the gentleman's amendment provides for an appeal direct from the justice of the peace or recorder's court to the Supreme Court, which can only be done when the constituttionality of a law is called in question. Mr. ABELL -My amendment provides that the Supreme Court shall exercise a supervisory control over all inferior courts to compel them to do their duty, over justices of the peace and recorders, as well as over district courts. Now, if they decide wrong against you, you have no remedy, except the pardoning power of the governor. With an honest bench you may have justice administered, I care not how small the calibre of the men. With a dishonest bench justice is very uncertain, I care not how talented the men. I do not think that courts are, as a rule, unjust and arbitrary, but they are liable to be, and the liability is greater in the district and inferior courts. each composed of a single man, than in the Supreme Court, composed of five, a majority of whom is necessary to constitute a quorum, and of two evils I believe it is always best to choose the lesser. The amendment which I propose is not original with me; I borrowed it from that glorious document which no man can gainsay, on account of the wisdom of the men who framed it, the constitution of the United States. It is not, therefore, original with me, but is a part of that constitution. As I have no desire to speak again on this subject, I wish merely now to call attention to the other amendment proposed, as if that is adopted mine will of course be rejected. That amendment appears to me to be a mass of incongruities and absurdities. It is an absurdity to say that the supreme court should have jurisdiction in all civil suits of three hundred dollars and upwards, and in all criminal where it is five dollars' It is not the amount in criminal cases that should govern; it is the injury d on e for which w e want a remedy, not the amount of the fine. My amendment provides a speedy and certain redress in criminal cases, and I ami willing that the judg-e ment of the district cour1ts shall be conclusivte in civil caspes when the amount is should be prepared against such a contingency. Every principle of manliness tells us that we are not bound to submit to any wrong. We are bound to submit to no wrong whatever, unless that wrong is a great evil fastened upon us by the laws of our country, and t hen we should only submit to it until w e could so change t hose laws as to pro vid e fo r it a remedy. This i s our duty now. It is r equired by the great principl e tha t a g overnment is bound to extend its protection to every man. This is a position that cannot be controverted. I defy the jrdges on th is floor, some four or five of them, to stand up here and controrert the principles I have enunciated here. Ther sale is a large class of cases for which n o remedv is provi ded in the report of the committee. My substitute provides the remedy. It is no new and untried remedy. It h as been adopted in other S tate s, and has been found to work well, and no one here can r easonably object t o giving the supreme court the power, if district judges attempt to abuse the power with which they have been intrusted, to compel them to do right or punish them. The appeal i n this cas e is confined properly to the rep ort of the committee. That report says who and in what cases the right of appeal shall be gr anted. I do not prop os e to alter that. My amendment has a different object: It shall have a general superintendingf cont rol over all infedrior and other courts of law; shall have power to issue writs of error and supersedeas, certiorari, habeas corpus and quo warranto, and other remed ial writs, and to hear and determi ne the same. Now, sir, this is not an appeal. It has no reference to an appeal. It provides remedial writs. It can be done at once-in five min'utes. It provides, when district judges throw obstacles in the way of justice, writs to remove them, and compel the judges to perform their duty. Mr. HENDERSON -Mr. President, my learned friend has seen fit to propose that the Supreme Court shall issue writs of error, etc. His proposition applies as well to justices of the peace and recorders as to the district courts. Now, in ordinary eases, I should appeal from a julstice of the DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION e perpetrated'by the judicial officers of the e State, and it rests with the Convention of . 1864 alone to find these remedies. Now, a what is the remedy proposed? "It shall - have a general superintending control." s What is the meaning the word it? To what e. does it refer? for by its own terms it is e nothing but a substitute. I will refer to - the article, however, as an amendment. / - I learn from the whole burden of the f gentleman's argument or speech what 1 his sole objection to the article of the 1 report of the committee is, that it deprives litigants, whose claims are under $300, of - any remedy, when the judge decides against , them. I admit frankly, if it requires an adi mission, that the article in the report has , that effect, so far as it goes. It limits the . appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court I to claims which exceed $300. I ask the gen tleman if his article remedies this? I ask j every gentleman of this Convention to scan , that article and see if it will have the effect the gentleman proposes to attain. Adopt this amendment, and the Legislature is the f only power which can put it into operation. t It does not say the Legislature shall limit the right of appeal; it does not say that in all cases there shall be an appeal to the SuM preme Court. When this constitution is adopted by the people, with this amend ment, what will be necessary in order to put it into operation, on the supposition that it can be, which I deny? The Legis lature will have to pass laws regulating the business of the Supreme Court, the district coirts and all the other courts which may be established under this constitution. In doing so we may presume fairly that the Legislature will respect the wishes of the people of Louisiana, and that the Legis lature will have regard for the mode and object of conducting the business in the Supreme Court; that the Legislature will not overload the Supreme Court to such an extent as will amount virtually to a denial of justice; because, if you give the right of universal appeal to the Supreme Court, every man who loses a case will take an appeal, upon the certainty that his case will not be reached in five, or perhaps ten years. Let every case be carried to the Supreme Court, and there will be a perfect 276 over three hundred dollars, and we hav given power to the Legislature to mak such inferior courts as they may see proper Mr. HF:.,vDEmo-.i-The question has bee under the old constitution decided in diffe ent ways. I put it three hundred dollar exclusive of interest, to settle the question There is no necessity for touching th question of interest; that is a mere ques tio.n of computation for clerks. -I am, there fore, in favor of excluding it, and givin the Supreme Court appellatej-Lirisdiction i all civil cases of three hundred dollars an over, exclusive of interest: and of givin the Legislature power to regulate the ap pellate jurisdiction in all other cases. Now if the court refuses a continuance, yo have no redress, but must stand it. This in a criminal case, should be remedied. In a civil suit, when the amount is under three hundred dollars, I am willing for the judgment to be final, for no great harm can result from it; but in criminal cases, when not only a man's property but his liberty is in jeopardy, he should have some redress besides the very uncertain one o the proceeding of impeaching the judge or the exercise of the pardoning power of the governor. Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I agree with the gentleman in part, but PRF,SIDENT-The gentleman has already .spoken on the question, and cannot have the floor again while any other member desires to speak. Mr. Howell has the floor. Mr. Ilow.Er..T,-Louisiana has been a State for something more than fifty years. In 1812 the first constitution of the State was adopted, and in 1845 it was amended, and again in 1852. Now, in 1864, we are stil progressing in amendments. It would seem we are far beyond such men as Judge Porter, Bernard Marigny, and a host of others, who formed the first constitution of this State; far ahead of such men as Bradford, Benjamin, Hunt, and others, who formed and amended the constitution of 1852; far, far ahead of the galaxy of intellects that formed the constitution of 1845. These men failed to see the errors and oppressions of which. the ntleman has been a eakin. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 277 stop to judicial business. How is it now? One court alone, since the 1st of November, 1862, has granted over four hundred appeals to the Supreme Court, besides those which have gone up from other courts, and the hundreds already pending under the old regim. There are now pending no less than 1500 or 2000 cases. Adopt this universal right of appeal, and you put a stop to all legal business so far as the rights of the people are concerned. The oldest cases have the preference, and no Legislature can deprive them of that right. These cases must be disposed of before new appeals are taken up, and those coming up under this constitution will be postponed for years and years. I think there are seven justices of the peace in this city, and ordinarily four recorders. Every justice has from 500 to 1500 cases every year, and sometime ago the number was far beyond that, as high as 3000. Every district court has brought before it during the judicial year from 700 to 1300 cases, and there are five of them. Now give every party the right of appeal and what do you do? You must necessarily make fifty supreme courts. No supreme court that has been made or will be made can dispose of one-twentieth of the cases that would be carried up. It is already complained that business accumuletes too rapidly. There are cases which have been pending for at least five years, and I think there are some that have been there ten years. This change, then, is inoperative. Instead of benefiting the poor, it will be an irremediable injury to them. The gentleman is a proud representative of the poor people of Louisiana. Let him have a client-a poor man who has worked ten days for some conscienceless rich man and earned $15, which is all the money he has; he brings a suit before a justice of the peace and gets a judgment; the rich man takes an appeal, and there is an end of the gentleman's client; his $15 are gone. That is an incident that would be multiplied by thousands. It may be there are cases of hardship in judicial proceedings, as there are in all human proceedings. Every one is liable to abuse and imperfection, but it is the part of every man to select that course which will be free from the greatest number of defects, and that is all we are called upon to do in this matter. The object of the Supreme Court is not so much to decide whether you owe me or I owe you, but to settle the jurisprudence. Poor men ha ve not suffered in Louisiana from the judiciary. I deny emphatically that they have been oppressed here or in any other State, or that judges are by habit corrupt and willing to oppress the poor and aid the rich. The common instincts of the human heart repel any such accusation. That there are such instances, no one attempts to deny, but shall that direct our action with reference to the matter? Such is not the consideration for men who are acting for the great interests of the country. Anote a t o ther part of the gentleman's argument was in regard to the criminal jurisprudence. It is the burden of his song, that a man who commits an assault and battery may be punished unjustly by the judge because of his personal feeling against him. I admit that it is a possibility, but is it a probability? I say no, it is not, from the intelligence of the judge, from his knowledge of human nature and of the consequences of such an act upon himself; besides, there are restrictions and restraints imposed by the law, which prevent it. The criminal judge is forbidden by law to make any remarks on the facts of the case; he is simply to judge of the law, and the peers of the criminal are to judge of the facts. If the judge had ever so much disposition to influence the jury on the question of fact, he has not the power. If the judge inflicts the maximum of punishment, is he to be condemned? The people made the law, and he must enforce it. For what purpose are criminal laws enacted? Was it the intention to make laws to protect the criminal? I trow not. They are enacted for the punishment of criminals and the prevention of crime. If a man suffers the maximum of punishment, the effect on society is good. I say the chances are but few where a man will be dealt with unjustly in a criminal trial, and it is probably better for the sake of society that there should be a possibility of some man receiving the DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION intends his proposition to stand as article 22, or to add it to that article as an amend ment? Mr. ABEI,L —To be added simply. To re turn: In the second volume of Black stone, page 35, we find the following: "It"-referring to the Court of King's Bench, which corresponds to our Supreme Court-" keeps the inferior courts within bounds of their authority-may command them to remove their proceedings to be de termined or prohibit their progress in the courts below. It superintends all the courts in the kingdom, and commands all t3 do what their duty calls upon them to do.'" That is exactly the power I wish our Supreme Court to have. There is no ap peal, but a command is simply sent to a judge to do his duty. In the name of right and justice, I ask that my amendment shall be adopted. jMr. FOLEY-v-I move the adoption of the amendment. Mr. CAZ..BAT-I move to strike out of the amendment proposed by the gentleman from the Fifth the words " and errors.?' Mr. CTTI.ER-I move to lay on the table both the amendments of the gentleman from the Fifth and that of the gentleman from Rapides (Mr. Cazabat.) [The secretary called the roll:]' YEAs — Messrs. Arial, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Bromley, Campbell,Cazabat, Cook J. K., Crozat, Edwards, Fuller, Gaidry, Hart, Harnan, Heard, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Mayer, Morris, Newell, Normand, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Shaw, Stnmpf, Terry, Thorpe, Wells-33. NAYs —Messrs. Abell, Austin, Bell, Bofill, Burke, Collip, Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Duke, Dupaty, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorllnski, Gruneberg, Henderson, Healy, Hills. Maas, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Purcell J., Schroeder, Stocker, Stauffer, Stiner, Sullivan, Wenck, Wilson —-41. Mr. CAMPBI,L —-I change my vote from "yes" to "non' [The following amendment proposed by Mr. Henderson was then read:] Art. 2. The Supreme Court, except in cases hereafter provided, shall have appelI late jurisdiction only, both as to law and l fact, with such exceptions and under such ' regulations as the Legislature shall make, maximum of the punishment awarded by law than that you should make such a provision as will increase crime. Make the Supreme Court judge of the facts in all cases of wh atev er character, and th e criminal will know readi ly he can co mmi t his c rim wth ata iit e with partial impunity. He will escape the clutche s of the law because of it s very con st itution, as every man, excepting in one or two instances, has the rig ht to ap - peal. I a sk gent lemen to look at th e c onsequences of this amendment, and to give some weight to the experience and investigations of those who made the three previous constitutions. The gentleman claims to be a native of Kentucky. I have the constitution of that State in my hand. It says: "The Court of Appeals, except in cases otherwise directed by this constitution, shall have appellate jurisdiction only.," It leaves the Legislature the right to limit that jurisdiction. The committee debated and considered this question. They took counsel from the past, without pretending to be wiser than those who went before them, and they were satisfied that the system that has worked so well for over fifty years will work well for a few years to come. Mr. ABELr.-So far as the argument of the gentleman from the Seventh(Judge Howell) is concerned, I must say that it never touched the case. I ask him where he has shown any mode of redress in the instances I have previously suggested. The gentleman cannot understand my amendment; cannot understand the word ' it." "It "' refers to the Supreme Court. He also objects to the carrying of my proposition for the reason that every case can then be appealed. I pronounce that a most unreasonable construction, for this does not contemplate any such thing. I wish the lash to be held over inferior courts-to make them do their duty. Is that proposing anything in regard to appeals? It is not, and no man of logical mind or ordinary sense will say so. Such a proviso as I propose ca n be found in the constitution of Arkansas and many other States, brought hither from England. No good judge will object to it, only the rascals. Mr. HILI.9 —l would ask it the gentleman 278 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 279 which jurisdiction shall extend to all casew. Messrs. Baum, Hart, Healy, Kavanagh, when the matter in dispute shall exceed Murphy E., Purcell J.-6, having entered, three hunfdred dollars, exclusive of intereste th to all cases in which the constitutionality the secretary read the previous day's proor legality of any tax, toll or impost what- eedings, and they were adopted. soever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty The secretary read a bl of the city of imposed by a municipal corporation shall New Orleans, to the amount of $6139, for be in contestation, and to all criminal cases. MI expenses of fitting up the hall for the use Mr. PURCELL-I move to lay that on the i of the Convention.] of the Convention.] table. I think time enough has been spent Mr. PUPRSELL-I move to refer to the Comin discussing this thing. i*n~~i inmittee on Contingent Expenses. [The motion was put and lost:] ! [The motion was carried.] YEAS - Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Beauvais, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. Mr. ILLS- call up my resolution offered K., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Edwards, Fish, yesterday: Fuller, Geir, Goldman, Hart, Henderson, Whereas, The absence of a few members Heard, Howell, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mann, at. the 12 o'clock roll-call results in a great Morris, Newell. Normand, Ong, Orr, Payne delay of business, therefore J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S. Resolved, That members of the one Resolved, That members,, of the ConvenSchroeder, Shaw, Stumpf, Stauffer, Thorpe, tion who do not answer to their names Wenck, Wells —41. within fifteen minutes after 12 o'clock M., NAYs —Messrs. Abell, Bell, Bofill, BroiiD- shall forfeit their per diem allowance for Icy, Campbell, Collin, Cook T., Decker, Du- every day of such absence. fresne, Duane, Duke, Dupaty, Ennis, Flood, M,~ ~r. BEIT —I move its adoption. Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Gaidry, Gorlinski,- E - moe it ot Gruneberg, Harnan, Healy, Hills, Knob- r FLRI move to lay it on the table. loch, Mayer, Montamat, Murphy E., Mur- [The motion to lay on the table was lost.] phy M. W., O'Conner, Smith, Stocker, Sti- Mr. STOCKER —I move to amend by inner, Sullivan, Terry, Waters, Wilson-36. y serting the words "without a good excuse." (Mr. Burke changed his vote from' yes" [Mr. Burke chang] As the resolution stands, every member to " no.".] who fails to be on hand at the moment Mr. CAZABXT —-I ask a call of the Ho~use. Mr. CAZABAT —- ask a call of the ouse. loses his per diem, whether he has an ex [The roll was called and it was found use or not. that there was not a quorum present.] Mr. SULLiVAN —I move we adjourn. [The motion was carried.] WEDNESDAY, Hfay 25-, 1864. [At the ~usual hour the Convention was called to order and the roll called, the following gentlemen answering to their names: ] Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T, Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane. Dufresne, Dupaty, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Gaidry,.Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, MNann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Shaw, Schnurr, Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Wenck, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-72. [There beingf no quloruim. the sergeant-atarms was directed to bring in absent member s MNr. HILI,.S —-l a,ckept the amendment. .1Mr. KAv-NA(GH-I move to lay the resolution, as amended, on the table. PRESIDEENT —The motion is out of order. Mr. ABELI.-I would be glad if I could, as I almost universally differ with my friend, (Mr. Hills,) agree with him once, but I find it impossible this time. It is the duty of every member to be present; and the experience of the last two days has shown that they will do it without resor ting to such measures. The proper mode is to have a member who is contumacious brought before the president and punished. [The ayes and noe s wer e called wit h the following result:] YeAs- Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Bell, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Collin. Cook T., Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Ennis, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski. Harnan, Healy, Hills, Howell, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Mayer,. Montamat, Morris, Newell, Normand, Pintado, Purcell J., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe, Wells and *Wilson —45. t DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. SHAw-I voted a few days ago for a resolution which mad e a special appropriation for certain specific purposes, which I believed the Convention had the power to make; but I believe this is beyond the power of the Convention, and shall vote to lay it on the table. Mr. SULLIVAN I am in favor of all charitable appropriations, and shall vote against laying the resolution on the table. [The following is the result of the vote:] YEN —Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin. Bailey, Baum, Bau uvais, aBofil, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Collin, Qrozat, Davies, Decker, Dupaty, Duane, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Fosdick, Fuller, Goldman, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Morris, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stauffer, Sullivan. Waters, Wenck, Wells-53. NAYs —Messrs. Barrett, Bell, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Dufresne, Fish, Flood, Foley, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Heard, Kavanagh, Mann, Murphy E., O'Conner, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schnurr, Schroeder, Stocker, Stump, Stiner, Terry, Thorpe, Wilson-33. [The chair declared the resolution laid on the table, upon which a few members applauded.] Mr. STOCKER-I move that the names of the gentlemen who applauded be taken down, and published in the m4nutes. [The motion received no second. The order of the day —article 2 of the report of the Committee on the Judiciary — was then taken up.] Mr. HENDERSON-I have a substitute for the article and all the amendments, which I desire to offer, and in offeri n g this substitutI se I desire to withdraw my amendment. PRESIDENT —It can only be withdrawn by the consent of the party who seconded it. Mr. HiiLS —I seconded the amendment. I consent to its withdrawal. Mr. HENDERSON —The substitute is as follows: The Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction upon law and fact in civil and criminal cases, as may be prescribed by the Legislature, and shall have supervisory control over all inferior courts. [Mr. S. Pursell moved to lay the substi NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Beauvais, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Crozat, Decker, Dupaty, Edwards, Flagg, Ful ler, Gastinel, Gaidry, Gruneberg, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kuobloch, Maurer, Mendiverri, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Pursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Sullivan and Waters-39. [The resolution was adopted.] Mr. TERRY-I call up my resolution offered yesterday. Resolved, That the sum of one hundred dollars is hereby allowed out of any funds in the State treasury, not otherwise appropriated, to defray the expenses necessary for the enrollment on parchment, and framing, &c., of the act of emancipation, in English and French, adopted by this Convention on the 11th day of May, 1864. Mr. WELLS-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion was lost.] Mr. WILSON —I move to refer it to the Committee on Contingent Expenses. [The motion was carried.] Mr. STOCKER —I call up my resolution appropriating the sum of $22,500 for charitable purposes. Mr. S,,MITH-I move to lay the motion on the table. [Before putting the question, the chair decided the motion carried.] A division was called for, and a rising vote showed 47 ayes and 27 noes. Mr. STOCKER-I move a call of the House. [The roll was called, and eighty-four members found to be present.] Mr. STOCKER-I now ask that the roll be called and every member required to vote. [The ayes and noes were taken.] Mr. HESDERSO —I desire to explain my vote. I presented a resolution making appropriations to certain charitable institutions. The resolution was referred to a committee, the committee made a report on it, and seeing that the Convention was not disposed to act immediately on it, I, myself, moved to lay it on the table, intending to call it up at a future time, late in the session, and with that determination I call a vote to lay this resolution on the table. Mr. ORBR-I wish to explain my vote. I consider the resolution as too indefinite to be considered by the Convention, and therefore vote to lay it on the table. 280 AND AMEND~B OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. says we have too many elections for our country s good-too much internal and in testine strife. Place in the hands of the executive the appointing power and this does cease. Another, a friend, tells me thus: Suppose, imagine a poor man is brought before a judge, three months prior to the judge's re-election before the people; this poor man can influence not a vote, whereas his prosecutor can influence a hun dred. Will not that judge consign that poor man to prison on scarcely any evi dence whatever, in order to be able to control the hundred votes of his o pponent? I answer yes, if he be a villain, and will perjure himself in sight of God a and man. Human nature is we ak but not infallible. Mr. President, to drown at once all argu ments in favor of an appointive judiciary, is it not the stepping-stone to despotism and institutionalisms? Is not an appointive judiciary an institution, an establishment appointed, prescribed and founded by authority? One of those great bug-bears of humanity; a curse to constitutional freedom and true democracy? [Applause.] Like the great Chinese wall, a stupendous and systematic effort to keep the individual permanently within or without. The individual never suffered to grow and expand save to the circumference of the appointive judiciary circle. As an institutionalism,'its powers over the liberties and tertiary characteristics of individuals is tremendous; few can withstand the popularity of its despotism. HIe who, unfortunately, has been nursed by the handmaid of institutions, rocked in the cradle of popularity; fed gruel with the silver-spoon of aristocracy, and sung to sleep in the lap of opulence, is not the man for the people! No! the people's man, on the contrary, is always born in a manger. He hath the blood of the people in him. He declares that institutions were made for men, not man for instit,titons. Goverfments and religions are less than man, for from his mind they emanated. Therefore, all laws are really subject to the Will of the people. Mr. President, the conservative may cry aloud for the safety and sanlcticity of institutions, and pile them up Olympus high in another form, and shaped in all the beau tute on the table, and on a rising vote the motion was lost-ayes 32, noes 44. Th e ayes and noes were called on the adoption of the substitute.] YEAs —Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Buckley, Collin, Cook- T., Decker, D uane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Duke, E nn is, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gaidry, Gorlinski, Grune berg, Henderson, Hills, Kavanagh, Maurer, Maas, Mendiverri, Murphy M. W., Murphy E., O'C onner, Orr, Schroeder, Seymour, Smith S, Sntumpf r, Stiner, Stauer, Sulli v an, Terry, Thorpe, Waters-39. NAYs-Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Baum, Bar rett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat,. Cook J. K., Crozat, Da vies, E dward s, F uller, Gastinel, Geier, Gold ann, Harnan, art, Healyt He ar d, Hi re,. Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Mayer, Montamat, Morris, Newell, Nor mand, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pur cell J., Pursell S., Schnurr, Shaw, Spellicy, Stocker, Wenck, We lls, Wilson-47. [The motion was lost. The qu esti on on the adoption of the arti cle as reported was then put to the House, and the ar ticle was adopted. The secretary read:] Art. 3. T he Supreme Court shall b e c omposed of one chief justice and four associate justices, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum. The chie f justic e shall r eceive a salary of ten thousand dollars, and each of the associ at e jus tices a salary of nine thousand dollars, annually, until otherwise provided by law. The c o ur t shall appoint its own clerks. Mr. TERRY-tMr. President, i n th is clause ar ise s the great question whethe r we shall h ave a judiciary that shall be appointive or elective. T he b at t le, if I understand it, is to com mence here. When I look over this report, Mr. President, it does not strike me with astonishment. It has not deceived me. I anticipate d the result of their labors would be in favor of an appointive judiciary. Reigns the re a ki ng in the State? Is a monarchical form of government to supercede the la st, o r a re we, republicans and prophets, to expound the doctrines of a true democracy? Shame be to the man who would change the fundamental law of the State, and introduce the tyranny of monarchical despotism. [Applause.] Let us look at this question rationally. An appointive judiciary-appointed for ten years, for life, or on ground of good behavior. What arguments are in its favor? One 36 281 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tiful rhetoric and eloquent language of an, appointive judiciary, but heed him not. His voice cometh not from the open field, nor from the mountain's top-far from it: on the contrary, his cries proceed from the wilderness of crime and marshes of despotism, which are ten-fold more dangerous than.the miasmas arising from the swamps of Louisiana. Change the scene from America —cross the Atlantic and let your gaze be extended to poor down-trodden Ireland. Is it not the home of despotism, tyranny and persecution? "Has she not given the world more than her share of genius and greatness? Her noble, brave and generous sons havem fought successfully in all battles but its own. In wit and humor it has no equal, while its harp, like its history, moves to tears by its sweet and melancholy pathos." What has seized this nation in its strangling grasp? With what does it wrestle day after day with a grim and unrelenting enemy, snapping its very heart-strings, beggerimg and famishing her people, driving them forth houseless and homeless, separating husband from wife, father from son, mother from daughter, until their feet turn westward and they leave the honors of an appointive judiciary behind, and seek a new home in free and enlightened America. Who, here, Mr. President, within the sound of my voice, in reading the dying speech of Robert Emmett, his noble vindication from calumny, has not felt the throes., the remorse, the anguish, which animated that inspired hero when he exclaimed: 1 My country was my idol, to it I sacrificed every selfish, every endearing sentiment, and for it I now offer up my life. No, my Lord, I acted as an Irishman, determined on d.elivering my country from the yoke of a foreign and unrelenting tyranny and from the more galling yoke of a domestic faction, which is a joint partner and perpetrator in the parricide. For the ignominy of existing with an exterior splendor and of conscious depravity. It was the only wish of my heart to extricate mry country fron its doutble riveted despotism.'" What despotism did he allude to, more than the very despotism and institution which was trying him for his life; the justice to whom he ap pealed was senseless stone! He knew no pity, no compassion, save that which had been previously expressed by the executive or appointing power. Mr. Pressident, returnfrom Irelandandturn your gaze on the executi ve ofstate. Methinks I see them now, t h rongi ng the halls o f the executive chamber, applicants for positions under an appointive judiciary, each bearing in his hand a letter setting forth his merits, signed by an hundred members of the bay whose signatures are only reversed upon the supplications of the others. What talented judges has an appointive judiciary given? Look at the Federal judiciary, most of them antiquated " old fogies," not up to the present emergencies of the age, have forgotten that young America has been growing while they have fallen into the " sear and yellow leaf." Look at their decisions& The Dred Scott case was a good one to hand down to posterity. Hear ye that infamous decision: " T.he black mnat has no rights which the white wan is bound to respect." A decision which has shocked the humanity and justice of the world, with the exception of the vulgar, slave-holding oligarchy of the, South, who, in the words of Emmett, " have lorded it over man as over the beasts of the fields." Mr. President, I could dwell for hours upon the wonderful decisions, emanations of an appointive judiciary, that damned the system to eternal infamy not many days ago. One of our talented appointive judges, in: a communication to the press, over his ownsignature, stated that the people were as fit, to elect a judge as a blacksmith is to repair the works of a watch. Then, if the people are not sufficiently qualified to elect a judge, how much less qualified are they to elect an executive, who, in accordance with this system, has the appointment of all judges. Which is the most ennobling to the intellectual man, to be placed in the judicial chair by the voice and suifferage of the people, or to beg, fawn, smile or couch to the executive and ask of him to give them what the people gave unto him- position. [Applause.] Then, M~r. President, who are fit for judges? In my humble opinion, and 282 AND AMNiDMEN OF THE CONSTITUTTION OP LOUISIANA. 283 Rob-ROB-not those who sent us here, THE PEOPLE! [Applause.] Mr. WENCK —I am surprised that the gentleman, after three mohths' preparation, should have made so poor an argument. The gentleman was entirely mistaken in his views. The appointment does not depend on a single individual, but on the concurrence of the Senate elected, as well as the governor, by the people. The Senate, after the nomination of an individual, are to pass upon his qualifications and say whether he is fit, worthy, honest and able to perform the duties of the position. The gentleman has been unfortunate in his allusions to history; his arguments are drawn from the judiciary of the seventeenth century; he dare not quote anythinglater in support of his position. We need not go so far back to find the workings of the appointive system. Under the laws of our own State the judiciary, previous to the adoption of the constitution of 1852, was always appointive, and our own experience has shown this to be the wiser system. The president of the Convention is a judge distinguished for his learning in the law, and I appeal to him to say if any lawyer of ability would leave a lucrative practice to run before the people for a position on the bench. It would be throwing thousands of dollars into the streets; but when it came to a permanent appointment, the case was very different. If judges were sure to remain during good behavior, talent could be commanded. Men who understood their profession would consent to sit upon the bench. I have discussed the matter before my constituents and they are in favor of an appointive judiciary, and I believe that if the gentleman would consult his own constituents, he would find himself in error in asserting that the people are in favor of an elective judiciary. An appointive judiciary is for the benefit and the interest of the poor man. It will prevent those who have money without ability from buying elections, as has been done heretofore in New Orleans; and the corruption that has controlled the judiciary elections for so considerable a portion of the' time during the last twelve years will be at an end if we adopt the appointive system. as an American citizen of the 19th century, believing myself entitled to an opinion and can freely express it, I would elect none to office only such as would act and legislate according to nature and reason, and work for equal justice and universal liberty. Why let their merits be canvassed, let them come before the people for suffrage and if there is any wrong in them, it will see the light of day in honest competition. They are greater than the executive of the State. They cause more happiness or woe; they are greater than kings; they sit upon a higher throne; a trust from the people. Then who will stand on the floor of this Convention and advocate the robing of the people of these rights, the people who sent each and all of us here by their suffrage to legislate for each and all of them to the best of our abilities. Can any here say their constituents charged them to advocate an appointive judiciary, to pilfer, steal, and rob them of an elective franchise and right? No, Mr. President, I cannot believe there is one from the great body of the people who will sell his birth-right of liberty. "That liberty, as a radical law of mind, has struggled and labored on the tide of ages, like a ship with waves and storms, amid the consolidations of monarchy, amid rocks and sandbars thrown up in the sea of human experience, by the nocturnal workers of modern days." That liberty which has spoken from the fountain centres of the universe to the heart of universal man. That liberty in true souls has kindled a fire of boundless love. That liberty our forefathers have borne sublime witness to thy divine majesty! Shade of Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin, where are thy great lights which once guarded the Temple of American Liberty? Their lights departed from earth lie buried within the tomb, not even by the present generation properly revered. Shrines of patriot souls speak from your invisible receptacles of thought, spread abroad thy wings of love, harmony and good fellowship, bequeathing to thy friends on earth refulgent light of reason and wisdom, open and expand the preception of man and instruct him the bounteous goodness of Heaven. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION guarantees a thorough knowledge of the subject on which the y have reported. These gentlemen ignore the election of judges, and suggest their appointment by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. Though not myself a lawyer, I have nevertheless closely scrutinized the operation of the elective judiciary system in this city for the past eleven years, and as the result of this scrutiny, I cheerfully endorse the suggestions of the framers of the report. It has been contended that the appointment of judges is a retrogade republican movement, and much'sophistry has been used to show that the people will bemuleted out of their dearest right-the right of elective franchise-by this mode of procedure. But I leave it to you, Mr. ,President; I leave it to -this Convention, can there be a more degrading spectacle than that presented by a judge courting popular applause in the bar-rooms of a great city; arguing politics, and soliciting pledges, in many instances from men of notoriously bad repute? Does it not detract from the dignity of the judge, stain the judicial ermine, and make Justice herself weep? It cannot truthfully be denied that the system of electing judges is open to this abuse. It were useless to cite instances Mr. BELL —-or. President, I think the question of the gentleman (Mfr. Wenck) has been well put to the president, asking if he would run before the people for a position on the bench, and in turn I would ask if he would not. Why he went before the people as a candidate for membership in this Convention. I think that the very fact that gentlemen are here is evidence of itself that they are willing to go before the people. I agree with the gentleman that previous to 1852 the judiciary was appointive; but we should not go back to the constitutions of 1812 and 1845 for precedents to guide our action in 1864. We are entering a higher state of progress and advancement by making the judiciary elective and not appointive. We advanced one step in the constitution of 1852, in making that change, and ought not to go backward. And for one, I, in the name of the people of the First District, shall protest against taking away from the sovereign people of this country one iota of the power of making their own judges, which power legitimately belongs to them and to them only. Mr. SULLIVAN-I am in favor of an elective judiciary, and I believe that the people of the State are in favor of it. The judiciary was appointive until 1852; but before that time it was found out that the judges appointed under the constitutions of 1812 and 1845 were corrupt, and the members of the Convention of 1852 found it expedient to abolish that system for the elective, and since that time Louisiana has had as talented a bench as any State in the Union. John C. Larue was elected, and he was an oracle of wisdom and legal learning-a terror to evil-doers-and yet he was a very popular gentleman. But the report does not stop with the judges. It takes away from the people the right of electing their own sheriffs, clerks, and even justices of the peace. The framers of the report wanted to make an emperor or a czar of the governor, but I believe the people are capable of making their own selections to fill all these positions, and I shall go in for making the judiciary elective. Mr. WiLoSN-The Committee on Judiciary embraces the names of gentlemen whose experience on the bench and at the bar. which have come under my personal observation. For I do not believe th a t ar gu - ment is ever strengthened by personalities, ori truth made more potent by personal invective. Appoint the judges, pay them liberal salaries, and all chance of witnessing such degrading scenes will be removed. It is Unnecessary to tell you, Mr. President, that law is a science. That it is the essence of human reason, based on the ten commandments, and brought down to the present generation as rules of action. In ancient times the judge wielded immense power, and error and crime were punished with much more severity than they are now. Joquet, in his "Origin of Laws," tells us that perjury was punishable by death, forgery and counterfeiting by cutting off the hands of the offenders, treachery by cutting out the tongue, and adultery by burning to death. I will not waste the valuable time of the Convention by entering into a detail 284 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. of the punishments inflicted upon criminals by the Mosaic law, but just state, in passing, that rape, incest, adultery, homicide and Sabbath breaking were sure to entail upon th e offender e i ther stoning or burning to dea th. My object is briefly to point out the sacredness of the judiciary, and to show that a mma a man may be a good citizen, yet be tota lly incapable of passing upon the qual ifications necessary in a judge. As well might a citizen vot e upon the m er its of a can didate for the chair of mathematics in a col lege as for the judge of the supreme or dis trict court. I would even go so far as to have justices of the peace appointed; and in every in stance I wou l d wish to see law yers occupy such seats. The re is m ore injus tice, more ignorance, more wrong perpe trated in these petty courts in one day than would ma ke a ngel s veil their faces for shame. Mr. P r esident, I do n ot wish to be misund erstood; I would not check t he c or re ctive influence of the ballot-box. I would not diminish one iota t he r igh t s of the people. But I feel convince d that political judges are just as bad as p olitical pr each ers, and I think the masse s w i ll sustain me when I assert that both should be excluded from all participation in the excitements arising from political canvass. I will c onclud e, by on e or two allusions to Mr. Terry's remars es ou "Ir ela and" and Judge- Tanev. I think it is a far-fetched argument which the gentleman has introduced about Ireland. Emmett and his brother martyrs knew that their judges had no pow er. It was the jurors, packed by a monarchical government, who were the tyrants. When Mr. Terry alludes to Judge Taney, of the Supreme Court of the United States -a man whose name should be held in reverence, who has grown gray in the study of law, and accuses him of violating his oath, and sacrificing his high and wellearned position by rendering an unjust decision, I think he has overstepped his ability to judge, and I must state that I disagree with him, and I will even go the length of stating that Judge Taneyes decision in the red Scott case was perfectly constitutional. I will vote against Mr. Sullivan's amend ment. Mr. CAMPBELL —I merely rise to say I shall support unhesitatingly an elective judiciary. I am an old resident of Missis sippi and have seen the working of the appointive system. I particularly remem ber one judge of a district court, and must say he was a perfect stick, of which we could not get rid. We changed the consti tution, and what was the result? We elected, among others, a judge who was a very unpopular man, who so well carried out the duties of his office that he was afterwards unanimously elected against four or five other candidates. Political no tions did not govern either. Irish was a whig and so was Sharkey, yet both were elected judges, and the latter held his office up to the breaking out of the rebel lion. So much for Mississippi, and now let us look at Louisiana for the last five years. When I first came here there was an ap pointive judiciary, even in the city courts. I was a member of a company of Louisiana volunteers, and services were demanded of me in two different places. I was cited to appear before the city court, and produced my papers substantiating the above facts; but the judge said: " It made no difference -I make my judgment and will not change." The judgment was against me, notwithstanding the evidence in my favor. Accordingly, I am in favor of an elective judiciary, and believe judges should never be s o far removed from the peo ple as to hold their offices during their life-time. Never, so long as l have a vote in this Convention or elsewhere, will I cast it in favor of an appointive judiciary. Mr. SmiTH-I believe this right belongs to the people, and -that it is the surest safeguard of Americans. Take from them this right and you destroy what is inherent in every republican government. (Applause.) I shall certainly vote for an elective judiciary and for election to every other office. (Applause.) Mr. ABELL-Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I rise to speak on what is, in my opinion, the emancipation act excepted} the most important question 2,85 DEBATES IN THSE CONVENTION FOR THE RE STION that has arisen, or will arise here. I must confess that I differ from gentlemen who have preceded me. I believe, and I am sure I want nothing but will give us a highly respectable bench, and mark what I tell you, you cannot command the best talent without paying therefor a large compensation. You cannot tell me that gentlemen like Mr. Roselius, and a dozen others whom I could name, would leave a lucratie practice of perhaps $20,000 a year for a judge's salary of $6000. Let us compromise this matter, and, by giving a salary of $12,000, strike a medium between the low salaries heretofore given here and the extremely liberal ones allowed in England. Honor is a very good thing; but a man cannot go to market with it, and it is the ultimate advantage of the people that we must consider. I think there is no justice unless administered according to the laws of the land, and not,,erely according to the dictates of any man's reason, but in that which, in the language of Coke, is the "refinement of reason and experience of ages," and not only that, but the law of the land. I contend that no man canadminister the law without a long experience. If you wanted a watch that would give you the time correctly, you would go to some experienced mechanicthe best watchmaker in the country. I say, you would be prompted by a sense of interest to go to the best establishment, where the most excellent workmanship of that character was produced. How are you to know what is the best? Can you depend upon yourself simply? Suppose you should examine the machinery, could you tell whether or not it was of the proper character? If this is so in the ordinary transactions of life, how much more would it be the case in regard to the experience necessary in this most complicated department of government? I wish to state, in the commencement, that while I believe it is for the interest of the whole country that we should have an appointive judiciary throughout, I am equally frank to confess myself satisfied that such is not the sense of this Convention or the people. Therefore, I, as a true democrat, am ready and willing to compromise the matter, by having the judges of the Supreme Court appointed by the governor, with the advice of the Senate, and the judges of the distrtict courts elected by the people-and I make this concession only as a compromise. An additional reason for my taking this course is, that I do not believe that this Convention, or the people of the State, are prepared for an entirely appointive judiciary. The appointing power in England has been vested in the crown time out of mind, but was seldom exercised without great consideration and consulta. tlon, in order to select only the most experienced and pure of the members of the bar to be judge. - It is not unlikely that the king himself sat in judgment as late as the time of Edward I, (1272,) but for nearly 600 years the judges have been appointed by the crown; and from. the time of Edward I to III William and Mary, about 400 years, the judges held their appointment at the pleasure of the king, and were removable at his option, which was not unfrequently exercised by displacing the most upright judges and substituting some craven wretch, who was ever ready to obey his master and to do any unprincipled act that might be assigned him. Such were Tresghan, Saunders, Jeffries, and others; and such judges would as readily subserve the interest and purposes of a mob, that would keep them in power, as they would their master, the king. But, Mr. President, these examples only show the danger of these uncertain tenures; but it would be invidious and unjust not to -mention the exceptions, for, during this period, we find many reverend judges and sages of the law-Hale, Coke, and otherswho have left imperishable monuments of learning and judicial purity, and they, Mr. President, were sometimes removed to give place to the most corrupt and vicious. My constituents wish to place the Supreme Court on a permanent basis. and also to awe judges from any abuse of powerto drive them into the path of rectitude. During the time that this appointive power in England was vested in the crown, which has been nearly six hundred years, dating iromn Edward 1, (1272,) the judiciary held their offices solely at the king's pleasued. 286 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. During that time some of the most atrocious judges that ever lived on earth or disgraced humanity carried out his wishes, or suffered immediate removal, to give place to others who would better subserve the interests of the king. In 1688 this was so far altered as to enable a judge to hold his position during the king's life-time. That was considered a great point gained, because then and from that time the king could make no removal. This continued for nearly one hundred years, when, in 1760, upon the accession of George III, an act of Parliament was passed, at his instance, by which judges held their offices during good behavior. Let us incorporate the same provision into our constitution, for otherwise the best judges and truest men are liable to be swept from the bench after a short term of four years, as they have been to my certain knowledge from the Second, Third and Fifth District Courts, for no other reason, that I was ever able to discover, unless on account of their being pure and upright judges. Tell me why such men as Hunt, Morgan, Kennedy and Eggleston were removed? Only because they were not prepared to submit to those who were combined to make judges to suit themselves. Under the appointive power of the king some of the most wicked judges that ever lived were placed upon the bench. Such as Jeffries, Saunders, and a thousand others who held their positions as long their master said they should, or they subserved his purposes. That is the danger to be feared by the people, who are undoubtedly virtuous in intent, but all know the danger of their usurpation under such a system. Gentlemen will remember the words of Ulysses, where he says: "The worst of tyrants is an usurping crowd." And thus the people will drive the best magistrates from their places, and fill them with demagogues, who will aspire to the vacancies and serve their master's meanest purposes. serve their purposes, and thus our judges will becom e a repr oach and a disgrace. [The president's hammer f e ll at the expiration of the half hour.] Mr. TERRY- I mo ve the gentleman be allowed to proceed. [No objection was made.] Mr. ABELL- Since the change o f 1688, the decis ion s of England have been the most uniform, regular and consistent that the world has ever known, excepting, perhaps, the Supreme Court of the United States. How is it with this court, of which our, esteemed president is an honorable member? The judges and associate judges have, from the beginning to the present time, been appointed during good behavior. Look into the voluminous reports and see, as the result of this, the most noble, uniform and consistent line of decisions. Why is this? Because the bench of the United States is dependent on nobody, for not even the president and Congress have power to remove them. I ask you, Mr. President and gentlemen, whether the State of Louisiana will not adopt this glorious system at once- -that the Supreme Court shall not only be nominated by the governor, and that nomination be submitted to the Senate for approval. Then, without going any farther, I will compromise at that stage and elect the district judges. I am in favor of giving the judges high salaries, that they may stand independent. In England, the lord chancellor receives no less than ~10,000, or more than $50,000, the chief justice of the Queen's Bench ~8000, associate justice ~5000, chief justice Common Pleas ~7000, associate justice Z5000, chief justice exchequer ~7000, and the associate justices Z5000. As a contrast, chief justice of the United States gets $6500, associate justices $6000. If we have an appointive judiciary to guard against each extreme, I favor a salary of $12,000 for our chief justice, $10,000 for each associate, and $8000 for each of the district judges. I withdraw, for the present, as I wish to have a general expression of opinion on this important subject. Mr. CUTLER —I am disposed to give my opinion to the Convention on this, one of the most important questions that could That is my opinion on the s3ubject of the elective judiciary, for the people will certainly oppose or support a judge accordingly, as they do or do not like him, or according as to whether or no he will sub 287 DEBATES IN THE CON'ENTION FOR THE REVISION that bear the name of lawyers; but a lawyer, in the proper sense, is one learned in the laws of God and man. What governs us? what causes us to assemble here? The power of the law! Everything about us, from the dust that we tread under our feet to the heavenly bodies above us, rolling in illimitable space, are governed by law! Show me a principle that is not based upon law; a country or anything else that is not based upon or governed by law. Yet a lawyer is spoken against here because he bears that name, and because lawyers constitute this committee. Some of you scoff at them and their report. Why? Look at your origin, at the very blood in your veins, at your systematic structure, at the world and all its features and contents, they are all based upon and governed by law. Man's law is founded upon the law of God. Will you ridicule, then, the law and the lawyer who expounds it? It is a shame and a disgrace for men to raise their voices here against that which Almighty God has established pre-eminently above all other things-the law! the law of God and of man! I hope, gentlemen, that I offer no insult. I want you to understand that the speaker (myself) is no aspirant for office-wants no judgeship. He, as a lawyer, thank God, makes his living honestly by the practice of the law. I am not here, as a lawyer of that committee, to advocate an appointed judiciary upon any other grounds but that of principle, justice and the best interests of the people. It is principle and justice that actuated me. Do n ot mi st ake me; do not suppose for a moment that I shall be governed by prejudice, pecuniary interest, or any other petty motive, which seems so apparent with some of you. Then, if you will listen to me and believe me, I ask you to listen to me to-morrow, while I shall attempt to argue these principles, illustrate. these facts, and apply them to the appointed instead of the elected judiciary. [On motion, the Convention then adjourned.] engage its attention; but it is too late to do so to-day. I wish to speak during the twenty remaining minutes of the session, and i f you will do me the favor of allowing me o to o ccup y th e floor for a sh ort time to-morrow, I shall be under many and lasting obligations. [Permission granted.] I feel that I am not gifted, a s man y are, by the Almighty, with the power to convince men. I have not that quality, through a frailty and imperfection of my nature, and perha ps, because I am a lawyer, in the estimationse of some, even of men who pretend to be lawyer s and to know someth ing of this judiciary question. If, however, I fail t o show the members of this Convention that I know something about it, then take for naught what I may say. I am not a dramatist, phrenologist, psychologist, spiritualist, Macduff, Macbeth, minist er of the gosp e l or priest. I am an humble citizen of Louisiana, and in beha lf o f its people I am disposed to illustrate this question-n ot by written speeches, studied for months; not by impromptu eloquence and spirit, emanating from some gentlemen, m erely through perso nal prej udice; but to try to argue to this Convention on principles founded on justice a nd long experience. Because, if we are t o b e g overned by personal prejudice, I think that the Supreme Ruler of m an should at once withdraw his spirit and presence from this b ody. If we are to be governed by principle, precedent, intelligence and humanity, let us use and listen to reason, and in so listeni ng do no t pretend lte to listen to me alone, the ar, hear,] but to those arguments which may be presented pro and con on this great question w hich now engages the attention of this Convention. It is the judiciary which holds your lives, lib erty and prosperity in their hands. Scorn it; treatit with contempt; to God you must then appeal and no longer to man! It might be considered improper in me to make these remarks, but I have heard men speak and use such harsh words here, and that, too, with such characteristics of manner, as calls forth what I am now saying. Lawyers!'law! There are pettifoggers 288 THURSDA.Y, May 26, 1864. [The president called the Convention to order at 12 o'clock m. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 289 nays were demanded, and being taken, re,sulted as follows:] YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bennie, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decke r, Duke, Dupaty Fish, Flagg, Fuller, Gaidry, Gruneberg, Hart, r- Hea ly, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kavainagh, nobloch, Maas, Maurer. Maye r, MendiverriMontamat, Murphy E, Murphy M. W., Ong, O'Conner, Orr, Paine J. Th, Pintado, Poynot, Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Sulli van, Wate rs, Wenck-49. NAYs —Messrs. Ariail, Barrett, Bell, Bromley, Burke, Collin, Cook T., Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hills, Howell, Kugler, Mann, Newell, Normand, Payne J., Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Stumpf, Stilner, Stauffer, Terry, Tlforpe, Wells, Wilson —37. Mr. BoFiLL-lI m o ve to lay the resolution on the table. [The resolu tion was read and Mr. Stauffer prote s ted against the vote b ei ng taken, on the ground that the resolution wa s not correctly read. He was orde red to t ake his s eat as the quest ion was being put, and the motion to lay on te the table was carried. The second reading of the report on judiciary, article 2, and Mr. Sullivan's amend ment, was then taken up.] Mr. CUTr Eec-For t he kindness of the Convention yesterda y in allow ing me to con clude my remarks to-day on the great subject before the Convention -the report of the Judi ciary Committee-I am und er lasting obligations to this body. As I stated yesterday, it is one of the most im portant questions that has engaged the at tention of this Convention; hence the im portance of our understanding the matter well before voting, because whatever action we take it will continue to exist and form a part of the constitution until an other convention may be assembled. The ordinance of emancipation was one of great importance, but as yet it forms no part of the constitution. It is a mere ordinance. I hope when the time comes, and under the head of general provisions, it will be en grafted there as a part of the constitution. Then, sir, in making the organic law.)f Louisiana, allow me to say once more that the question of appointed or elected judi ciary is one of the greatest and most vital bert. The roll being called, the following members answered to their names:] Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fu ll er, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Gorlin ski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-86. [A quorum being present, the journal of yesterday was read and approved. Mr. Thorpe presented the following resolution, which lays over under the rules:] Resolved, That the pen used by the president of this Convention in signing the ordinance of emancipation, be presented, along with proper endorsements of its genuineness, to Major Gen. N. P. Banks, commanding the Department of the Gulf. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move to reconsider the vote on the resolution of Mr. Hills, in regard to the forfeiture of the per diem of members. Mr. HmLs-I move to lay that motion on the table. [The yeas and nays were demanded, and the motion lost by the following vote:] YExs-Messrs. Ariail, Barrett, Beanvais, Bell. Bromley, Burke, Collin, Cook T., Dufresne, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Flood, Fosdick, Foley, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hills, Howell, Kugler, Mann, Newell, Normand, Payne J., Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe, Wells, Wilson-36. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Baum, Bennie, Beauvais, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell' Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker: Duke, Dupaty, Fish. Flagg, Fuller, Gaidry, Gruneberg, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Schnurr, Seymour, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters, Wenck-49. [The motion was therefore lost. On the motion to reconsider the yeas and 37 Prayer was offered by the Rev. Mr. Gil DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION now. I submit to you that the amendment is premature; not that I wish to dodge the' question. I desire now to present my entire views on the subject, be they weak, good, bad or indifferent. According to parliamentary law, the chair and the Convention can only act upon the subject matter presented to its consideration. What is it, then? It is upon the third article of the Judiciary Committee. That article reads thus: Art. 3. The Supreme Court shall be composed of one chief justice and four associate justices, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum. The chief justice shall receive a salary of ten thousand dollars, and each-of the associate justices a salary of nine thousand dollars, annually, untl S otherwise provided by law. The court shall appoint its own clerks. The amendment does not come in the proper place. It reads: Art. 3. The Supreme Court shall be composed of one chief justice and four associate justices, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum. The chief justice shall receive a salary of eight thousand dollars, and the four associate justices each seven thousand dollars, annually, until otherwise provided by law. The court shall appoint its own clerks. The judges shall be elected for the term of ten years. But Mr. Sullivan, who offered this in perfect candor, I am willing to admit, has mistaken the report of the committee, and has added thereto an amendment which does not belong there; that is, that judges shall be elected for a term of ten years. Now, gentlemen, turn to article 11 of the report: "The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and they shall hold their offices during good behavior." Then, Mr. President, according to parliamentary law, the amendment in regard to the elected, or appointed judiciary does not apply to this article of the report at all. It is necessary,. in order to proper legislation, not only to act in harmony, but in accordance with parliamentary law, as well as in that spirit of justice which is demanded at our hands, and we should make amendments at the proper time and in proper places. But, inasmuch as the question of appointed or elected judiciary has been thoroughly and ably discussed by several gentlemen, it is not necessary, nor perhaps wo.uld it be proper, to cut sh ort the fin al argument; therefore I wi ll proc eed, in o rder to bring the debat e to a fin a l termination. Whatever I say shall be said without prejudice or personal motive, and without a view to office. The gentlemen who are opposed to me are men of honor, intelligence and respect, and I shall not lose my respect for them if they continue to persist in their notions in regard to the elected judiciary. As a man and citizen, and no politician-one who despises politics, and wants nothing to do with them, I shall speak on this question. Some of the learned gentlemen of this Convention have said that the appointed judiciary is anti-democratic; that it is antirepublican; in other words, it is stealing from the people-robbing the people of their just prerogative. I want to meet you upon principle. You have laid down principles on this floor that it is robbing or depriving the people of their just rights. In other words, the people are to be heard in all elections —are to have their voice in the election of all officers, be they executive, legislative or judicial. Is not that a fair statement of the proposition? Now, let us look at our country-and I mean the country of Washington, Madison, Jefferson-the United States of America. You speak of an appointed judiciary as being anti-democratic, and against the people. Do you believe to-day that great as we may be we are superior to our forefathers, who fought, bled and endured greater hardships than we to achieve independence we now enjoy? We may be, but it is not my opinion. What did they do? They have engrafted on the constitution of the United States this high, heaven-born principle, that the judges of the Supreme Court of the United States and of the district courts of the different States, and the commissioners which answers to the word justices of the peace, shall be appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. Are you tired of that system? Look back at the organic law that gave your liberty birth. There is the foundation to build upon,.and a su1fficient reason for the appointed judiciary in 11.)90 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 291 then a great war? Who lived then? A Livingston, a Grimes, a Martin, a Roselius, yea, and many others-practicing lawyersno, not all of them, but all were honest men, whose history it does me good to refer to. What do they say? If you are to be governed by reason and principle, now thwart the principle I introduce, based upon experience of great and good men and able and worthy jurists; do it, if you can, but do it fairly and honestly, not by abuse and high-sounding words. "The Supreme Court shall be composed of one chief justice and three associate justices, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum. The chief justice shall receive a salary of $5500. The court shall appoint its own clerks. The judges shall be appointed for a term of eight years." I read from the constitution of 1845. Turn back to 1812, and you find the same system and principle, and it prevailed and governed in the State of Louisiana until 1852. Now, turn to the constitution of 1852, and what do you find there? Do you not see that such men as the arch traitors Slidell, Benjamin, and others-workers in the crime and slime of treason - are the authors, directly or indirectly, of the elective judiciary feature of that constitution? The very men who" in Louisiana and Mississippi and Washington City, plotted, treason against our common country, are the authors, directly or indirectly, of that which my opponents wish to vote for to-day. In 1812 the constitution of this State was modeled after the example of our forefathers, in respect to the appointed judiciary. Lo ok bac k an d see what you can complain of under the appointed judiciary. Look at the decision of the courts; look at our judges, and I ask if there is one of you who can say they were not in perfect accordance with the laws of justice and humanity? By the most diabolical thuggery, and through the instrumentality, of the infamous Benjamin and others-not democrats, and they never were, or they would have been honest- they over-rode and out-generaled such noble and true statesmen as Roselius and many others. The question for to-day is, whether we will sanction the same principle? That is what I want to know. Do you want to say, by a State. The government s of the different State s ar e modeled after t he g e neral governmen t, and the nearer we come to the o rig inal mod el the more perfect our new structure. We have the supreme court, district cours an d justice s of the peace in the differe nt States, precisely on the same plan and principle as that of the general government. Look at your constitution. You are all American s, are you not? If you h ap pen to be an Irishman or German by birth, th at d oes not make a distinction, if you ar e an Am erican in principle. Now, as Americans, under an American constitution and American democratic laws, am I wrong when I say that our forefathers in their wisdom thought it prop er to place and that they were right in placing in the constitution of the United States that sacred a rticl e that the Supreme Court of the United States, and also the district courts and justices of the peace, should be appointed by the president, with the sanction of the Senate? If not, then, in God's name, what becomes of your argument and of your principle? Never say again that it is anti-republican and contrary to American 4nstititions! It is democratic, it is republican, it is American, that you shall appoint judges of the Supreme Court, district courts and justices of the peace; that done, and you have a judiciary in this State modeled after the judiciary of the United States, and will have sanctioned a principle founded in wisdom and justice. I ask no better authority than the blood of our forefathers to sustain my argument. Where is your argument? You have promised to meet me upon principle. Where is your answer to that argument? Look at the constitution of the United States, and you will -see I am speaking the truth. The State is merely an integral part of the great country in which we live, and should model after its superior. Mr. President, let me call your attention to the constitution of 1845. Let us leave Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, and the host of men who brought us into the liberty we now enjoy, and come down to our own State. What says the constitution of 1845? Where were wethen? Was there DEBATE IN T CONVETION FO()R TIE REVISION hearing witnesses. The testimony only is read as written down by a clerk underthe dictation and in the presence of the district judge. This is the system everywhere. It is engrafted in the federal constitution, and is carried out by the judges of the federal courts, and is the system we now propose. Then, how can there be any prejudice in the supreme court, that only reads the cold documents, sees no witnesses, hears no party, and does not know the parties except by name? If the supreme court of the State of Louisiana is exempt from the position of prejudice, I would like to have the gentleman answer me, how it is important that they should be elected or appointed? It matters not how it is done, so far as this matter is concerned; but in the court of the justice of the peace, where you bring your smfnall claim to the threshold of either justice or injustice. In the district court, when you bring a suit exceeding $100, you desire to have your testimony heard; then it is that this prejudice is printed indeliby to go up to the supreme court. How will you get over this-what is the remedy? I have shown you that the supreme court has no opportunity to become prejudiced, but it is not so with the. justice of the peace. He sees every movement of the witness' face and knows whether to believe or disbelieve. If he, is a dishonest man, he may give preference to dishonesty; and it may be carried out with perfect innocence by the supreme court. You are to manufacture judges either by the public voice at the ballot-box, or through the mouth of the executive and Senate. John Smith, Bob Johnson and Red Bill are candidates for judge. You cannot have forgotten the scenes of 1853, 154 and'55; if you have, I remember them, associated with the sword and revolver. Do you want men to sit on the judicial bench who go into beer saloons, five-cent coffee-houses and groggeries and electioneer for the purpose of becoming judges? Is that your appreciation of American institutions and of liberty, right and justice? The executive department is a trivial thing in comparison with the judiciary. Then, do you want a man who electioneers in the grogshops to secure his election? If he the power held by this C onvention, that t here shall be an elected judiciary in Louisiana, in contormity to the will and wishe s of th e t hugs and frau dulent sco un - drels and traitors If you want it, after this, I hav e nothing to say. The history of Louisiana tells you that I am right. One of my oppone nts says h e is in favor of an e lected judici ary, and is willing to give us the appointment of the supreme court, but is not wi ll ing to include the district courts and justices of the peace. Let us come to the stronges t principle. I want you, my f riend of the Ele venth Ward (Campbell,) particularly to listen to this. By what principle-is it argued in favor of the appointment of the supreme court and n ot t he district courts and justices of the peace? You giv e us no reason at all. Let me give you a few reason s w hy it is more important to appoin t the district judges th an the su prem e judges. W e are all practical men, and have some business whic h we purs ue. Let us reason upon principle. Where do you institute your suit? D o you institute it in the d istrict court or t he supreme court? Here is a poor man who has a debt due him and is desirous of enforcing payment. Wvhere does he bring that su it? The supreme court never h as had ocginal jurisdiction in ordinary cases, and I do not believe this Convention will so far forget itself as to give it original jurisdiction. On the contrary, it has already decided that the supreme court shall have appellate jurisdiction. Now, in conformity with that principle, let me ask you if it is not the district court instead of the supreme court that takes cognizance of your cause? It is the district court that tries the case, if the amount is over one hundred dollars; if the sum exceeds three hundred dollars, there exists the right of appeal to the supreme court. If there is such a thing as prejudice in a judge, let me ask you where it begins? It is where you bring the suit and receive the testimony — in the district court where it begins. It is there that you hear witnesses. When the testimony is reduced to writing the party has a right to appeal to the supreme court. It goes up to the supreme court in writing, but there is no such thing as that court vJ 92 AND AENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOtISIANA. ever have such a riot until you had Russell upon the bench? Why was it? Because those bullies, organized thugs, anti-repub licans, anti-democrats, cowards and scoundrels collected under him, and with the dollars in their pockets, placed him in the high position of city judge. Do not, for God's sake-looking at the history of your country, to the old States, to reason-do not vote here for such a system of thuggery again. Let us save ourselves from it. There is an instance in the Empire State that ought to make a man blush for the institutions of his country, and no man knows it better than my friend from the "Second," (Mr. Hills.) A mere machine, a mere scoundrel, a man without pminciple and much less without law knowledge, promoted after the adoption of the elective system to the judgeship of the city court. As for this scoundrelism, the men who voted for him were bullies, thugs, knownothings, and when they committed an offence could go at largeupon "straw" bail, while an honest citizen of New York, (as it was here in New Orleans years ago,) who happened to be arrested, would have to give double bonds to the city or town authorities. Pass from an elected judiciary. Let a governor of New York, Massachusetts or Rhode Island appoint a man, and he never selects a thug or assassin. Tell me, if you can, when that was ever done? No, sir, it never was. The dignity of the executive and Senate require greater support than to allow them to promote thugs anl assassins to office. Gentlemen, save Louisiana, save Louisiana, in God's name! I will tell you another thing just before I get through. Let me ask you a question. Is every man in Louisiana a loyal man? Do you say "yes?" [Cries of "no," no." Of course " no." [Voice-" some mixed."] Yes, they are considerably mixed; a little too much mixed, (" You are right, sir "7) to risk the experiment of an elective judiciary, especially in the country. Here are men from the country, who are truly loyal, and I will stand by them to the very death. I do not doubt the gentleman from the Tenth, (Mr. Campbell,) or any other man here, but I say, gentlemen, that you are laboring un would stop there I would have no objection, but it does not stop there. Here is a man who has $300,000, and the thug, assassin an d scoundrel is aided by the rich man. You can elect Red Bill to-morrow under these principles. (Applause.) Every man who has electioneered for the last six weeks for this principle of elected judiciary-I mean the gentleman on my right, the auditor of public accounts-knows it. It is strange that a man of reason, sense, honor and integrity should condescend, in this State, to sanction thuggery and the election of grogshop electioneerers to the dignified position of judge. I mean no insult to any man, but what I have told you is based upon principle. If I deviate from that, call me to order. I wish to know if in the Constitutional Convention of 1864 you want again to perpetrate these outrages, which have been so often perpetrated in New Orleans and elsewhere. " Convince a man against his will, And he is of the same opinion still." I had rather say nothing than undertake to talk to a man who is entirely impervious. If he is on his dying bed and you tell him there is a God, he will refuse to believe it. Such men are unworthy of any argument. I kn ow I ha ve no pow ers to convince, but while I remain a member of this Convention I do not wish to be'recreant to my duty, and shall say something on these important questions. I am going to test your loyalty, to see whether you are in favor of rebel or Union men. Look at New York. Now, let the gentleman (Mr. Hills) from the Empire Statemay Almighty God preserve her thus, for she is a great and deserving one-go to his city. In 1822, if I remember rightly, (and if I do not, correct me, for I want nothing but the truth,) you had an appointed judiciary. You had, dating a short time after the Declaration of Independence, say from 1784, men of principle and honesty upon the bench, and no one can dispute it. Nor did this stop there, but went down to 1846, and it was not until your tomb-shyster Russell became judge of the city court, under the elective system, that you became involved in thuggery and desperation in the shape of riots. Is it not true? Did you 203 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION t able member of this Convention-to-ask him what he means by what he said on yesterr day? Does he know what he means? Can he get up here to-day, leave his papers, and f say anything against the principles I have enunciated? If he can, I would like to have him do it. I care not whether you write it out or speak impromptu, as I do, dictated by reason and principle, but only wish to know what you mean by what you read from' your manuscript, the fruits of your six weeks' labor? [Laughter and applause.] Do you intend to thwart the great principles that move us? If you do, you can make a laughing-stock of me, or the majority of this Convention. This is no place to make fun and laugh and sneer, or treat anybody with disrespect. It is a place for us to work-for great God knows, there never was a Convention that ever met before under such extraordinary circum stances as this. Your abuse should not be thrown forth here! There is no argument in such stuff, for argument is based upon principle, philosophy and fact, with a view to good and noble purposes. That is argu ment! I wish to God the gentleman had never read from those papers what he did, for A. J. Davis, of New York, destroyed all his fictions in about two minutes! Give us something new-something that suits the wpresent day and action -that is connected with what we are here concerned with. Are we now in the midst of a great rebellion, or a time of peace? I wish it was the latter, but it is not, and therefore it is necessary that we should be exceedingly careful. Do not be too hasty. Do not suppose that, because you had an idea that might prevail in proper time, that you are to force it now upon this Convention! That is the only reas on why I seriously blame my esteemed friend (the auditor of accounts) for attempting to use his influence upon this Convention, for the purpose of thwarting one of the noblest projects within its power. We have done him the honor to elect him to the noble position he holds. He should never have set his foot upon the floor of this Convention for that.purpose; but now that he has, how many of you are influenced by him? No matter how high may be the position d er a great mistake when you pretend that you can subm it to the people of Louisiana the election of that power which holds your life, liberty and property at stake. You cannot d o it kow. It is not the governor of Louisiana that has any pow er o ver y ou in comparison with a judge. The same is true of th e Legislature, but the judiciary can even say that your property is not yours. Go to any parish, as St. Mary's, (I mean no disrespect,) in which you are summoned before a jury who h ave taken the oath of allegiance-oh, yes! but y ou r v ot e in this Convention consigns you to the penitentiary or to prison, whether you are in the right or wrong. Are the people loyal enough to vote for judges who may pass upon your life, liberty and property? [Cries of "no."] I said I intended to test the loyalty of this Convention. I do not brag of too much loyalty. I think I am a loyal man. I try my best for my country, but do not wish to brag of anything. I think you will say that my argument is not composed of harsh epithets and abuse, but of principles. If you vote for an elective judiciary, do you not inculcate an unholy principle in giving a chance to disloyal men to place upon the bench a disloyal traitor? [Ap: plause, and cries of " yes," " yes."] I would rather vote against emancipation if it was to come up again, but I feel certain it is a fixed fact, as God knows, I hope it never will —against anything else, than against the appointive judiciary-at least, until the war is over. You put a governor in office now, I care not who he is, he will select a loyal man and will not have upon the bench of Louisiana a disloyal man. Is all I have said worthy of any consideration here? Are you still determined to vote for an elective judiciary and let the proclamation of the governor go forth to call the people to an election for judges and invite men who you know did not come up to vote at the last gubernatorial election, but who are ready to vote now to defeat propositions that may emanate from this Convention? [Applause.] I want, in perfect candor-meaning no abuse at all to the gentleman from the Third, (Mr. Terry,) whom I respect as an honor 294 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. of any man, however much he may try to influence your vote, be governed by no b le aims, byprinciple and justice. I fear, upon this question, no man's vote, who is not already trammeled, if he takes occasion to go into a private caucus, gets his constituents to come forward and instruct him how to vote upon a certain question, that is wrong. Each one, after election, should come here as a man, like Chas. O'Connor, free from every prejudice and partiality- b devoted to principle. You may say I have made allusions to somebody. I may have, to certain men, I call not their names, but am assured that such is the fact, and I ask you, without anybody else knowing who you are, to discard such petty prejudices and vote like men, though all the secessionists and scoundrels in the country favor an elective judiciary. On this subject I am done. I have spoken sincerely. Now, gentlemen wh o pretend to have an adverse opinion, do not act like stubborn men and vote anyhow, but rise in your seats, exhibit your views and tell us why you do as you do, and I will vote with you, if youshow me how our forefathers devised a wrong. Show me how badly this great system has worked from their time down to the present. Show me an instance anywhere where an appointed judiciary is worse, or any system is as bad, as the eleetive-give me an instance, if you please. There is some great mistake about this. Some members are of opinion that the governor has an almighty power, and that whoever he selects is the man. Gentlemen, the report of the committee reads in no such way. It says that the governor -shall nominate, and submit the nominee to the Senate for its approval. If there is an error in the judgment of the executive, the Senate, to be composed of many of you men-I shall not be there, for I do not want and will have no more office-will correct that error, which will prevent us from having the property of loyal men taken unjustly from them while they are smitten to the dust by the election of disloyal judges, who might be elected, not only in the country, but I fear also in New Orleans. With these remarks, I thank you, as I yes terday said I would, and take my le ave of the subj ect. [Applause.] Mr. THORP,E-The elective judiciary had been a failure in all the States where it bad ever been tried, not because the people were not competent to elect the judiciary, but becaus e the people di d not find time to attend properly to the election, and hence the m achinery of an elective ju dicia ry naturally f ell into the hand s of political gamblers or speculators; an d an e lecti ve judiciary, as a co nse que nce, was charact eristic of the sou rce from wh ence it originated. Having already incorporated in the constitution the ordinance of emancipa ion, which was to be submi tte d to the people, it was doubly necessary that the judi ciary that was to'decide all the important relations under that ordinan ce should be independent, over and as far as possible remove d from a ll imp roper and especially from all political influences. Suppose' in submitting this ordinance to the p opular vote, the re sponsibilities of the iron-clad oath be removed, who in this Convention believes it would be ratified by the inhabitants of the State. So, too, if w e make the judges elective: just as soon as the franchise is extended so as to pe rmit the loyal, semi-loyal and the obstinate disloyal people to vote they would elect judges who would make the emancipation ordinance a nullity; and the members ot th is Con vention, who have hones t l y vote d for the ordinance and sustained the federal government. would find these elective judges none other than Jeffries, so terribly would be the example of an abused judiciary. The gentleman from the Fifth District (Mr. Abell) has given a succinct history of the use of British jurisprudence, and I do not propose to go into the history of the supreme and inferior courts of the country, as my friend Mr. Cutler has just done in so able a manner; and were it not for my horror of an elective judiciary, and my desire to be placed on the record in favor of an appointed judiciary, I might not have made any remarks on this subject. I cannot approve of the compromise which the gentleman from the Fifth District (Mr. Abell) proposed to offer —to appoint the supreme Court and elect the district judges 295 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION "that if a man could get Ed. White as a lawyer, and a Lafourche jury, he could carry any thing;" and in many of the country parishes there were persons who, by their personal influence with their numerous relatives and their great wealth, boasted that they feared nothing from the courts; and they had nothing to fear, for they had the power to do anything they pleased. I was in New York in December last, when the election for city judges took place. The issue was distinctly made between McCunn's friends and the honest people of New York. The New York bullies, junk shopkeepers, petty thieves and swindlers, told the people that they wished to, and were determined, to force MeCunn down their throats, and they succeeded in doing it. This matter had been carried so far that Jas. T. Brady, that noble and patriotic son of Ireland, and most eminent jurist of the Empire State, had been heard to say, " That when a client presented himself to him for advice, that he first learned enough of the case to ascert ain before what court it must be brought, and if it was before a judge whom he had opposed in politics, he felt bound to decline to undertake the suit." I would repeat that when the elective judiciary system had been tried, the lawabiding citizens living under its influence felt that it was a miserable failure. It was an absurd fallacy to say that to make it appointive would be an infringement upon the rights of the people. Such an assertion was as unjust as ridiculous. The mass of mthe people have not time to select their servants, especially their judges, as those to whom they delegate their powers are just as much the representatives of the people as are individual ballots the representatives of the people. The governor of the State of Louisiana, by virtue of hi s e lection a nd office, represents the voice of the entire people of the State; and if the people should agree to leave the judicial appointments to him, they placed a great responsibility on him to ascertain who were qifalified to fill the positions, and relieved themselves of it; anld it was sheer nonsense for demagogues to call this an invasion of the people's rights. and justices of the peace. On the contrary, I believe the mo st ty r annical port ion of our syste m was an elective just ice of the peace. This was the court whose arbitrary de cisio ns bor e directly on the great mass of poor people. One of the greatest blessings enjoyed by the ci tize ns of New Or l ea ns, w hil e G en. Bu tler wa s in t he c ity, was the entire cessation of the funct i ons of justices of the peace. The people, for the time being at least, were free from their corrupt and arbitrary influences. When they were elected they soon grew to be a terrible scourge to the community, and the scenes of dest itution and misery brought to l ight by their action, in turning helpless women and children into the streets, were enough to wring the hearts of all well disposed persons with sorrow. This evil, after Gen. Butler departed from the city, was carried to such an extent that several gentlemen, among them myself, called on Gov. Shepley and induced him to issue an order calculated to put a stop to such proceedings; and if it had been carried out and not allowed to become a dead letter soon after its promulgation, much of the present suffering of the poor people of the city would have been obviated. If he wanted to give protection to the poor man in the inferior courts, he would make the judges of those courts appointive. The poor man should place no dependence in those who meet him in the grog-shop and ask him for his vote to elect him as a justice of the peace, promising favors as a consideration for the vote. He would ask gentlemen where elective judges were made in New Orleans? He would ask them if it would be inappropriate to post up over the door of every five cent grog-shop in the city a sign emblazoned with the device, '"Justices of the Peace made here!'I Justices of the peace and judges were nominated in back-rooms, and elected by grogshop politicians! Men of standing in the community, as a general thing, had very little to do with the judiciary elections. The elective system was particularly ill adapted to the sparsely settled portions of Louisiana, on account of the fact that frequently whole communities were relatives. Twenty years ago it was a common remark, 296 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. He could act coolly and independently amid all this excitement. At the proper time he released Burr, and for the moment literally received the denunciations of what appeared the indignation and sneers of a great people. But time has vindicated the Chief Justice; and Burr's crime, of what was at the time termed treason, now looks little else than a fillibustering spirit developed in advance of a sympathetic public opinion. The Dred Scott decision I was always opposed to; every feeling of my heart is abhorrent to such a decision. I believe it is one of the most blackening and damning records that has ever blotted the page of Ame ri can jurisprudence. Yet I can not but admire the independence of Chief Jus tice Taney. When the popular excitement ran so high, when the abolitionists on the one side and the Southerners on the other were boiling over with excitement, Roger B. Taney sat fearlessly and immovable as a rock upon the bench. He knew that he had not to go back to the people for a re-elec tion, and gave his decision regardiess of the popular clamor. It is impossible not to admire the man and action; and though we believe the decision to be against the teachings of humanity and against the laws of God, still it was in accordance with the law as it existed, and bad as the law was Juidg,e Tanley could do no less than sustain the law. Then a better public sentiment and a great rebellion changed the law, and ~ It is but a few days since I heard a man 'in the St. Char les hotel denouncing in no measured term s one of the United States judges appointed, occupying the benc h in this city. Af ter ex hau sting h is stock of vile epithets, he concluded with: " If that judge were to ome before the people for election, I woul ed spe nd fift y thousand dollars but what would defeat him." This is b ut an instance of the influenc e brough t to be ar in judicial elections, and of the influences which g enerally control the m. The dea th of R ob e r t Emmett, which has been alluded to i n such glowing terms by my friend (Mr. Torry) yesterday, was not owing to the fac t tha t the j udge who tried him was appointed by the English crown; his de ath, if unjust, *as the direst result of t he E nglish spy system, which still existed in England t o a considerable extent; a system by which the English government was enabled to bring any number of its employes to swear falsely in its interest; and any judge with the same testimony before him, whe ther elected by t he people or appoint ed by the crown, if he acted in accordance with his oath, to decide according to law and the testimony given, would have been obliged to give th e same decision. and cond emn Emmett to de a th. In the great excitement which reigned throughoat the country at the time of the trial of Aaron Burr for treason, we can now form but a slight idea. The nation was convulsed, and the most intense political rancor prevailed. Patriotism and freedom went,hand in hand to blind the popular mind and keep the mass of the people free from a judicious and correct opinion.! How refreshing it was amid the storm to witness the dignified and dispassionate conduct of Chief Justice Marshall. He sat unmoved amid the storm, listened in a dis passionate manner to the witnesses and to the argument of counsel, and when the case was closed he took home the record and deliberated upon his conduct. Public opinion and its representative, the press, had already condemned Burr. MNfen of all classes, civil and religious, looked upon him with horror and clamored for his condemnation. Fortunately, Marshall was not dependent on an election for his position. 38 man on the judicial bench t o try me for my vote on the question of emancipation?" I believe that such would be the effect of allowing the election of judges to be made by a popular vote. If the military should be removal or the obligation of the iron-clad removed from voters, thousands who did not vote at the election will vote if the franchise should be extended to them, and they will defeat every loyal matn I 297 4 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Union cause had been again stricken in the dust. At the late election of the governor there were about ten thousand votes cast, and the consciences of these voters were held in check by the iron-clad oath. Remove that check and where would we be now? We do not represent a majority of the people of the State, but we represent the entire loyalty of the State. There are many who have taken the iron-clad who are restless in harness; I don't know but there are one or two in this body. They don't like it, and will kick out of the traces and throw off the harness entirely if evar they have an opportunity. I would not object to an election of the judiciary if assured that no man would be allowed to vote but those who voted at the election of members for this Convention; but he was satisfied, that if the military power was removed from the State, and the elective system was applied to the judiciary, no loyal man, for many years to come, could be elected to a judgeship. While he respected the views of those who favored that system, because he believerl they weresincere, he would warn them to be careful how they suffered the scepter to depart from Judah, and how they allowe.l disloyalty to again assert supremacy at the polls. [At the close of Mr. Abelsls speech, Mr Henderson obtained the floor, but a motion to adjourn prevailed, and the Convention adjourned.] We are not framing a constitution in ordinary times-half the State is in rebellion, and a large number of those who are within the lines are far from being cured of their rebellious sympathies. It is only a few days since I saw five hundred of these fanatics, who had been for nearly three years enjoying the protection of our government, well dressed gentlemen, most of them, and mnimbers of them have made large sums of money under the protecting influence of the national armies during the last two years; yet when the news (bogus) had been received that Grant had been defeated, and the national cause was in danger, these five hundred fanatics rushed into the Picayune office, evidently frantic with joy at the receipt of such intelligence. If you see this in these fanatics, who for two years had hoarded and accumulated wealth under the protecting folds of that flag, (pointing to the banner over the speaker's desk) who for two years have heard the tramp of the soldiers-nature's noblemen of the North and West-in this city, and whose homes have not been disturbed nor their property destroyed-who had seen a Butler, like an Eastern despot, dispensing justice everywhere-who had seen Gen. Banks, no less true to the country and to humanity, endeavoring by kindness and a mild rule to win this people back-what may be expected in the country parishes and in those not yet reclaimed? Are we ready to risk an elective judiciary now? The commissary department has kept for nearly three years two-thirds of the people from starvation. When Lovell and his craven set went off on the Jackson railroad, they left here a vast heritage of abandoned wives and daughters-they have been protected and cared for. Their homes have not been invaded by natienal troops; though many of them were left destitute, they have not been allowed to suffer. Numbers of children were left here whose cheeks were blanched by starvation. Now they wear the nlgged bloom of health and show that they command plenty. And y,et all this mercy has not softened the hearts of any one of these men who were gloating over the false news that Gen. Grant had been defeated, and that the FttIDiY, May 27, 1864. [The president called the Convention to order at 12 o'clock M. The roll was called, and the following members answered to their names:] Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Burke, Cazabat, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Decker. Duane, Diifresne, Dupaty, Duke, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, G-aidry, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Maurer, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat. Morris, Muirphy M. W.., Newell, Normand' O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J.. Purgell S.. Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, StockerStumpf, Stiner, Sul.livatn, Terry, Thorpe, I 298 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Waters, Wells, Wilson. and Mr. President -78. [The journal of yesterday was read and approved. The following resolutions were presented and laid over under the rules:] By Mr. Bell: Resolved, That the following be adopted as a standing rule of this Convention: When a question has been once decided by the Convention, it shall not again be brought up for consideration, except by a motion to reconsider, which motion must be made on the same or succeeding day, or by a vote.of two-thirds of the members present. By Mr. Waters: Be it Resolved, That from and after this date, the police force of the city of New Orleans shall receive from the city treasury the annual pay of one thousand dollars, payable monthly, and shall furnish bond in the sum of one thousand dollars for the faithful performance of their duties while acting in the capactity of policemen. Mr. HowEs-I move a suspension of the rules to act on it at once. Mr. WELLS-I move to lay it on the table. Mr. FoLEY-I move a suspension of t he rules to act on it at once. Mr. SMrru-I move to lay it on the table. Mr. BELT,-I second Mr. Foley's motion. [The motion to lay the motion to suspend the rules on the table was carried.] Mr. MOrTAMAT-The committee appointed to wait on Gen. Banks and invite him to visit this Convention, with his staff, beg leave to report that they waited on the general, and he promised to meet the committee in the parlor of the mayor at 1 o'clock to-day. MNr. THORPE-I call up my resolution of yesterday, to presb,,lt the pen with which the ordinance of emancipation was signed to Gen. Banks. [The resolution was adopted.] Mr. HEN-DEnSoX —I did not conclude my remarks yesterday, but will give way now and conclude at some filture stage of the debate. Mr. AiBEL —The judiciary department is one of the highest importance, exceeded only by the emancipation order. Its temples should in purity stand only second to the sanctuaries of God. p A pure, enlightened and firm judiciary is the pride and affchor of state and the bulwark of liberty. It strikes down injustice and oppression, gives stability and honor to the State, and confidence and protection to the people. As legislators, then, it becomes our duty to devise the best means of securing the best talent and purest men of the State to be judges. My veneration for a pure judiciary might lead me to adopt any mode that could be pointed out th at would best promote an d secure its e stabli shment upon the most ind ependent b p rand permanent b asis. Fe eling a veneration for precedents, and relying upon t he li ght s o f the p ast, I shall beg the indulgence of the Con vention while I briefly review the history o f the mEnglish B e n ch for the last six centuries, an d the American for the past hundred years. Were we to penetrate further into the past, we might find much instruction and lights to guide us in our duty from the august courts of ancient nations, which during the days of their purity stood as eternal monuments of justice, and honor to their State; but unfortunately the most of them yielded to the influence of the Crown, or became corrupted by luxury and avarice; but, while confined to their legitimate sphere, have always proved the bulwark of liberty to the people, and the glory of the State. The duty of this Convention. in my humble judgment, is to provide the strongest safe-guards againts undue influence upon the judges, by securing them on the one hand by ample salaries from pecuniary apprehensions, and on the other from being captiously removed from office. This independence and leisure would enable the judges to devote their entire minds and energies to their duties. The theory of all monarchial governments is that all power is derived from the crown, and republics from the people, and that the judges are the ministers of the government or people, and the only security for the entire independence of the court is to keep the judges as far removed from the influence of the appointing power ~ax possible. 299 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Ulysses said: "The worst of tyrants is a usurping crowd." Mr. President, I am not captiou s as to the g tode of appo i ntme nt, but I stand firm for a life tenure, and for th e inde pendence of the judge of the appointing power; leaving him nothing to fear but his own mal or misfeasance. If elected by the people, for short ter ms o r even lon g terms, the influence o f party organizations and personal claims will be pres sed to an extent to be resisted o nly by superhuman virtue and manly firm ne ss; a nd th e on ly reward for these vi rtue s would be defeat at the end of his tedL This, sir, isf the language of exper ience. DOOEKEeEER —Mnaj. Gei. Banks and staff! The distinguished guests advanced t o the rostrum and were seated on either hand of the president. After the applause had some - What subsided, Pres iden t Durell welcomed the genera l i n the fol lowing wor ds: General-This Con ve ntion, the representatives of th e loyal peo ple of Louisiana, and th e result of your wisdom and of you a r s tatesmanship, embraces you with i ts wh ole h eart. Its love for you, its confidence in you, gro ws with each growing day; and as each day wanes, its love, its confidence, and its hopes, increase for the morrow. General, t his Convention has performed the largest portion of its labors, and has completed the work for the performance of which it was mainly called into existence. It has adopted an ordinance giving liberty to more th an thre e hu ndred thousand of th(e inhabitan ts of the State of Louisiana, [applause,],and men and women and children, who but yesterday were held as cattle in the market, to-day stand up as free as any man in this assembly. [Great applause.] In completing this work, general, upon you has devolved the solution of the problem growing out of the subbstitution of free for forced labor, and you are solving the problem with a wisdom which has compelled the admiration of the broadest and deepest thinkers in Europe. General, as the organ of this Convention, I again extend to you the welcome which is due to a citizen, who, both as a citizen and as a soldier, desrves well of hi~ country. This, Mr. President, can be done only by appointing the judiciary by the governor, or by joint ballot of the IIouse of RepreMentatives, and not by election. A judge having received his appointment by the governor, and confirmation by the Senate or by joint ballot, is at once and forever as free from the influence of the appointing power, as from that of the humblest individnal in the State; left to his own will, un-influenced, and impelled by the highest considerations of honor, none but the na turally corrupt would swerve from his duty. Mr. HILLS-I rise to move that, in view of the great importance of this question and the interest it has assumned, the time of debate be unlimited, and so the number of times of speaking. For that purpose I move to suspend the rules. [Motion to suspend carried.] Mr. HARNxs-Twice is enough for any man to speak on the same subject. Mr. HII.T.,-I withdraw the latter por tion. [Motion adopted.] Mr. ABELir-The tenure of " life and good behavior " is the only one that will insure the best talents and greatest experience. No eminent lawyer would yield up a lucrative practice for an uncertain office, from which he might be removed at the end of a short term, or be compelled to become a whining politician in order to reta in h is position. Examples are not wanting in this city to show that our most eminent judges have been thus treated. The 1st, 2d, 3d and 5th courts have had judges thrown out, without fault, thereby losing the advantage of experience to the State, introducing irregularities and hindrance to public business. Nor should the exposition of an upright judge to the shame of being thus treated without cause be without weight. But, Mr. President, any mode of aipointment for a term short of good behavior would open the door to intrigues in order to retain office; which, I contend, is highly inconsistent with the required purity and elevation of the bench and interest of the public. We are a captions people, and old 800 AND AMENDMNT OF THE OONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I know, sir, I have no right to trespass on your attention, or interrupt youri'deliberations. I may say, however, that the progresi ts of this Convent ion has given me the greatest satisfaction. I know that the problems submitted to your decision are not to be solved in a moment. I know perfectly well that not only deliberation but patience and the lapse of time are necessary to the completion of your work; and if it be done well, I say to you with the utmost satisfaction, that I shall accord to you the highest honor. The act of emancipation contains words as fitting -and proper to that gre't subject as can be found in the whole circle of English literature. [Great applause.] The closing article of that act, which declares that " The Legislature shall hereafter pass no laws recognizing property in man," exemplifies the wisdom of man, and carries into effect the law of God. He gave to man supremacy over the beast and the bird and the brute creation, but the title of lord over man He retained to Himself alone, and never created in His image, of whom it may be said, or to whom it should be said, that he was lord over the creatures of God. That, sir, is enough, but you will do more. In taking this position, the Convention is compelled to follow, and the legislators that will succeed will also be compelled to follow, in completion of the work so honorably begun. Sometimes when I am riding along the Mississippi, the majestic stream that passes you, and which in the end will be found to have bound this continent together against all the machinations of men to destroy the union of States, I feel as if prosperity and power were limited to the country through which it passes. When its rolling flood leaps from its bed, and breaks in upon the prosperous and beautiful plantations that line its banks, you seek to restrain the torrent and re-establish your control over its waters. But you cannot again re-establish the levee where it stood. You must build it upon new ground, bring to it new supports, and make it cover new elements of power. So it is with the great currents of time. Revolutions swell their turbid waters; they deluge and desolate the country;7 and when you come to repair the damage Gen. Banks addressed the Convention as follows: Mr. Presient-No convocation of such intelligence and character as that in the presence of which I now stand could do otherwise than impress me with feelings of respect and awe, devoted as you are-as I know and as I have been told by your president-to the development of measures for the restoration and preservation of our government. There is scarcely a higher duty with which gentlemen can be charged than that of providing for the legislation of tho future. The legislation of the day is enough to tax the energies and wisdom of almost any class of men; but to him, or to them, to whom it is committed by the organization of constitutional government, to shape the destinies of half a century, is clwrged with a duty of which he or they may be proud, and, if well and wisely performed, will win honors which can rarely fall to any other class of men. They give, as Bacon said of the law-givers of England, Ge to Go d that which to him pertaineth, to Cesar that which is Cesar's, to the subject that which belongs to the subject." [Applause.] Sir, I always feel a deep interest in assemblies of this character. The most anxious, the most interesting, and let me say the most satisfactory part of my life was passed as a member of an assembly of this kind. When,I look over the broad fields of legislation of this country, and see what has been accomplished by these constitutional assemblies, what States have been created, what cities and towns have grown up as it were in a night, what power, prosperity and peace have been sown broadcast over this continent, I feel it is indeed one of the greatest privileges that could be conferred upon men to participate in such labors. But in a time of revolution it is perhaps of higher import than in any other, while in every other part of this country men are ranked against men in arms, seeking amid the doubtful strife of war for supremacy, you sit in peaceful assembly to reconstruct the government which has been rent asunder by revolution and treason. If you accomplish this work, the people of this country must hold you forever in grateful re t membrance. 301 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE RESION that has been done, you find you cannot reestablish the ancient boundaries again. It is immaterial what may be the opinions of men; you must take new ground; gather new elements of power, and bring to your support elements of strength that may have been disregarded as unnecessary. This, sir, is a lesson which it is but just for us to consider. In the restoration of the constitutional forms of your government, you are compelled to go beyond the lines which were occupied by you before. You must take in new elements of strength, and give to the institutions that you are to establish a broader basis than your State has known before. Of this you have given evidence yourselves. The act of emancipation is a great and parent act of wisdom. The education of the people, and the extension of franchise hereafter, will be objects that will attract the attention of the country, and you will have the proud satisfaction of knowing that while you have done what is necessary for you to do in this generation, those that succeed to your work and follow your example will alse be compelled to carry out your ideas in the future. We have witnessed the vindication of the freedom of the Mississippi; we have participated in the creation of a free State, and we now must proclaim the measures necessary to maintain the prosperity and happiness of a free people. That is glory enough for. any State, and honor enough for any representative of the people. [Great enthusiasm.] Mr. STOCKER I desire to call the attention of the chair to the resolution which was unanimously adopted this morning: Resolved, That the pen used by the President of this Convention, in signing the ordinance of emancipation, be presented, along- with the evidence of its genuineness, to Major Gen. N. P. Banks, commanding this Department. I think this is a very proper occasion for this to take place, and move to do so. Mr. PRESIDEN-T-I would state to the Convention that it is impossible for that resolution to be carried into effect at this time, but it will be at the earliest possible moment. Mr. AButI am perhaps one of the most awkward men in the world. but it seems to me it would be appropriat e if we shou ld give a vote of thanks to Ma jor Gen. Banks, the warrior and the s t atesman, and his staff, for the consideration they have paid us by visiting us upon this day, and in doing this, if not entirely inappropriat e, that Mrs. Banks should be i n cluded. [Motion carried.] Mr. STOCKER-I move for a recess of twenty minutes. [Motion carried.] Mr. ABEL —Mr. President, the idea of a judge seeking public favor to retain office, is, to my mind, one of the greatest Brostitutions of judicial purity and dignity that could be imagined; and yet, sir, on the elective principle, he must do so, or he will perl~ps have to give his position, at the end of his term, to some aspiring demagogue, by which government is injured and. disgraced and public justice laid prostrate. I repeat, that the elective judiciary is dangerous to the public weal, and must, in the end, bring the wonted dignity and purity of the bench-into contempt. The appointing power in England has been vested in the crown time out of mind, but was seldom exercised without great consideration and consultation, in order to select only the most experienced and pure of the members of the bar to be judges. It is not unlikely that the king himself sat in judgment as late as the time of Edward I, A. D. 1272; but for nearly 600 years the judges have been appointed by the crown, and from the time of Edward I to 3d William and Mary, about 400 years, the judges held their appointment at the pleasure of the king and removable at his option, which was not infrequently exercised by displacing the most upright judges and substituting some craven wretch who was ready to obey his master and to do any unprincipled work that might be assigned him. Such were Tresylian, Saunders, Jeffries, Wright, and others, and such judges would as readily subserve the purposes of a mob, that would keep them in power, as they would their master, the king. But, Mr. President, these examples only show the danger of these uncertain tenures, and it would be invidious and unjust not to 302 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 303 mention the exceptions, for during this tions of elections? Reason andexperience period we find many reverend judges and answer, No! no! sages of the law-a Hale, a Coke, and The salaries of judges is a question that others, who have left imperishable momni- should not be left out ofmind. When ajudge ments of learning and judicial purity; but has received his appointment and entered they, Mr. President, were sometimes re- upon the duties of office, he should not be moved to give place to the most corrupt trammeled by pecuniary considerations, but and viciots. should feel that he has a freehold estate in office, such as would meet all present and future wants; in order to enable him to devote all his energies, skill and talent to the service of the State and promotion of justice. The great end and object, I repeat, is to secure the best talent, skill and learning; this can be do n e only by making the tenure "for life," and with ample salary. What amounts to a sufficient salary is a question on which men would be likely to differ, but we might draw a just conclusion in a medium between the princely salaries of the English judges, and the shamefully low salaries of the judges of the courts of the United States: The chief justice U. S. gets.......$6.500 The associate justices U.S., each, 6.000 But, happy for the advancement of civilization and judicial certainty, in the third year of William and Mary (1691) the appointment was no longer at the option of the king, but expired at his death, which was considered at that time a great point. But the crowning act of judicial certainty was reserved for George III, A. D. 1760, who, in the very first year of his reign, extended the tenure of the office to the life of the judge or during good behavior, since which time the English bench has been ornamented by the most learned and eminent judges, whose decisions challenge the admiration of the world for their learning, impartiality and uniformity. The United States of America admitted the safety of the rule of a life tenure, ad adopted it in its organic law in the following language: "The judges both of supreme and inferior courts shall hold office during good behavior, and shall. at stated times, receive for their services a compensation which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office." (See constitu tion, art. 3, sec. 1, clause 2.) The supreme and auxiliary courts of the United States, organized upon the princi-' ple of a life tenure, has presented a series of decisions for wisdom, learning and uniformity unsurpassed by the English or any other courts upon the globe. Being independent of the government, the court has stood prominent for its impartiality and wisdom. The lord chancellor of England gets...................... ~10.000 The vice chancellors, each,..... 5.000 The chief justice queens bench, 8.000 Four associa te justices, each,..fralf 5.000 The chief justic e co mmon pleas, 7.000 Four associate justices doa, ea ch, 5.000 The chief justice exchequer,.... ~ 7.000 Four associate justices do., each, 5.000 This contrast is great, but f unoin strh ectivoe. Guardin g ag ainst each extreme, I favor a salary of $12,000 for our chief justice, $10,000 each for the associate justices, and $8,000 each for the district judges. In fixing the salaries above menti one d, I assume that the judges are to be appointed for a life tenure, or during good behavior; for if the judiciary remains elective, subject to party intrigue or popular whims and clamor, then I am opposed to any salary whatever, but for paying the judges the ordinary wages of day laborers-$2 50 a day for district and $3 for the supreme judges, and docking them every day they are not-in actual service. same tenure, and in every instance has proved khe wisdom and policy of the appointive judiciary. Mr. President and gentlemen of the Coinvention, I ask, will you be governed by reason and those high examples, or will you leave this branch of government, which requires so much certainty, to the fluctna I I As a contrast: The lord chancellor of England gets...................... The vice chancellors, each,.....,. The chief justice queen,s bench, Four associate justices, each,.... The chief justice common pleas, Four associate justices do.., each, The chief justice exchequer,.... Four associate justices do., each, Afany of the United States adopted the DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tutions differ politically, theirs being monarchical and ours republican, when itcomes to the judiciary, the y a re simila r and should be alike. Thereis no fear that an appointed judge will be a polit ica l ju dge. Politicians, when placed on the bench for long terms, cease to be politicians and become jurists. Such was the case with Taney, who S. S. Prentice declared was the political demagogue that removed the deposits, yet after he came upon the bench said of him that "he is a god in human fiesh." John Marshall was a Federalist, of the old school of politics, and was in favor of the appointment by the Senate of all ministerial and judiciary officers-and George Washington suibscribed the doctrine-yet after he went upon the bench he became one of the most celebrated men as a jurist of modern times. 'No nation ever set out to make a republican government except the United States. Mankind had no faith in the mass of the people. They had no faith in themselves. The Jews once had a republican government, if the Scriptural accounts are true; but they were not satisfied with it, and called on God to give them a king, and hence the doctrine that the king could do no wrong. That doctrine is, however, exploded in this country, and I say to-day that I feel fullv satisfied that two of the three branches of the government, the executive and the legislative, are elected directly by the people, and believe that the ends of justice would be promoted by making the third, the jtudicial, purely appointive. In an elective judiciary it makes little difference in the result whether we have a man of great mind and a high order of talent or not, if he runs against the political party which happens to be in power, no matter what the character of his competitor, he will be defeated. It is so everywhere. Political parties will, if they elect a judiciary, have their political candidates {or the bench, and the party in power will elect a party man. This is a matter that parts politics should not enter into. There are no party questions, no great political principles involved in the issues, and partypolitics ought to be rigidly excluded from {he judiciary. There is no danger that the governor will appoint a mewe politician, Sir, instead of studying the nicer balances of justice, and applying the great principles of the law. they are compelled to calculate the chances of re-election. They look to this and that combination of political tricksters, and are certain to want to know what are thy chances for the Dutch and Irish vote. No sooner has this dream vanished, than the chances of nomination press upon their feverish brain. Such, Mr. President, has been the experience of this city for the past twelve years, and such I predict will be the case as long as an elective judiciary is tolerated. Sir, I pronounce an elective judiciary a failure, and a reproach and disgrace to the age. Mr. HENDERSoN —Mr. President, I believe tha; no question has been presented to this body that has elicited so much favorable debate, and without passion, and with discrimination, as that whether the judiciary shall be appointive or elective, and, Mr. President, there is no question of more vital political importance to the citizen that can come up for discussion before this body, than the one now under consideration. It affects all classes, from the highest to the lowest, and from the lowest to the highest. It is the department which to a greater extent than any other exercises a controlling influence over the lives, the liberties and the property of mankind. We find that in every age in which man has lived money has been the measure of labor, and talent the measure by which men through their industry have acquired various positions. And the pay should be proportioned to the services to be performed, and to the availability of the man. A judge can have no one to represent'him. All the labor required of him he must perform himself. He cannot employ a clerk to do it for him. It can only be done by one fit to hold that position. We live in an age of progress; and while I am a native-born American citizen, and claim that we stand one of the best and proudest nations of earth, I am proud to look to old England for an example of the best judiciary system on earth. Her House of Lords and Court of King's Bench are proud mornments to show what a judiciary ought to be. Though our insti I 304 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. because thie Senate will act as a check upon him. If he nominates a man in whom they have no confidence. they can refuse to confirm him, as was done by the Senate of the United States when John Tyler was president. Tyler was elected vice president as a whig, but when he, by the death of Harrison, came to be president, he proved to be anything but a whig, or a democrat either, and neither party had any confidence in him. He sent the name of Judge Spencer, then secretary of war, a man of great learning and ability, to be confirmed as associate judge of the Supreme Court, but between the whigs and the democrats in the Senate they rejected him, and Tyler was obliged to substitute another. When the Senate, in the State of New York, was the Court of Errors, it was composed of the highest talent of the country, and administered justice a great deal better than the Supreme Court of that State, which is elective, does now. One gentleman has attempted to stand here and place ignorance before intelligence on this question. Which do you prefer to have on the bench, ignorance or intelligence? Why, sir, the constitution of 1845 contained a provision that none but a lawyer should be appointed to a judicial position. and yet gentlemen stand up here longs to the Roman Catholi c Church, and when he was once called upon to give an opinion as to whe ther a man c ould be made responsible for an act on account of his religious belief, replied that the constitution of the United States prohibited the establishment of any religion. Jefferson himself was once desired to make the Baptist religion the law of the land. He replied: " I, myself, will use my political influence to have an amendment made to the constitution, declaring that Congress never shall make a law establishing a religion or preventing the free exercise thereof.! Writers on international law tell us that religions are part of the local laws. If you go to China, you must observe'their laws respecting the worship of the sun. If you go to Egypt, you must observe their religioIus regulations respecting the animals they worship. How does man know that God inspired Moses, and chose the Jews from among the surrounding nations for his own people, and decreed that the others should be hewers of wood and drawers of water for them? And yet you must believe it, if the Bible is true. Before the flood, white men were made slaves, and the slavery of the negro was never heard of till modern times. When our constitution was formed it ex and in terms of sneering sarcasm tell uis isted, and a great effort was made to crush * that the members of that high and honor- it; sucih men as Jefferson, and Washington, able profession, a profession that stands and Livingston, and St. Thomas Jenifer, higher than any other except that of the and Butler, of South Carolina, wanted to military chief [turning towards Gen. Banks] destroy it. The deputies from eleven States who commands the department. wanted to destroy it, but Ben Franklin, the We are told, sometimes, that the civil founder of the first abolition society in power is first. In the governments of South America, in order to preserve harmony and America, whether monorchical or republi- please the other two, was willing, for the can, where the Roman Catholics predomi- sake of peace and harmony, to admit that nate, you will find that they are governed the Declaration of Independence was not by the Queen of Spain in fact, if not nomi- right, and that men were not born with nally, because they believe in the supremacy certain inalienable rights; and from that of the spiritual over the temporal govern- period is dated the denial of the right of ment-the subordination of the State to the the national government to make laws reg- papal power. ulating slavery. In the United States you will find it The appointment of judges at this time, different. You will find all the Catholics and the necessity of having good men are republicans. This is our theory of gov- under a tenure that cannot be endan ernment-ours is a progressive government, gered by the caprice of the popular while those are not. Roger B. Taney be- mind, is particularly important. Suppose, 39 305 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION for instance, the question respecting the take his seat. We are representing a miconstitutionality of the emancipation of nority of the people to make a constitution slaves, or the making of greenbacks a legal for the State of Louisiana. We have as tender, should arise? Such a question has good a right to our position as one of the lately been tried in New York, and I say States of the Union as Virginia has. She the judge who has decided in favor of the has but a small part of her territory free constitutionality of greenbacks is worthy from rebel rule. and yet she has her two of all honor for sustaining the national senators in Congress. And where would treasury. But we all know that, aside from she be to-day if her people had the power military necessity, the president has no to elect either branch of her government? right, Congress has no right, Gen. Banks, Where would Missouri and Tennessee be, if the military commader of the department the voice of their people was to be followed? and exponent of Abe Lincoln, has no right If a majority vote was to control these to emancipate a single slave in any State. States, they would be back in the rebellion I appeal to you, Gen. Banks, to say if you to-day. And what is the recent action of did not, when you held a distinguished po- the House, which declared that a State shall sition in the House of representatives, as a give a majority vote before it shall be perrepublican, deny the right of Congress to mitted to come back? interfere with slave'y in- the States. He Mr. President, we have a great inany says yes. The republican party denied the things at stake here o0 this question, but 1 right of Congress to legislate for the States now deter to speak longer without the apon that subject, with the approbation of the probation of this meeting, and therefore president; and it is only through the war yield the floor, and ask that the question ot' power the right is derived. The constitu- adjon-nment be put to this House. tion declares that Congress has the right to [The notion to adjourn was pit and declare war. But says some Southern gen- carried.] tlemen, Congress did not declare war —it was Abe Lincoln. Who declared war in SATURDAY, May 28, 1864. 1846 " It was Polk. He told Taylor where [The president called the Convention to to go with his troops. The territory was order at 12 o'clock, and the roll being in dispute, both parties claiming it; and called, the following members answered to Taylor said the war was just and holy. their names:] He was defending a position that he had Messrs. Abell, Ariall, Balch, Bailey, Barbeen ordered to occupy, and to which we }een ordered to occupy, and towhich w rett, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Bucklev, Burke, Camtpbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Crozat, had just as good a right. to say the least, Decker, Duane, Dufiresne, Duke, Dupaty, as any body. But when the question of Edwards, Ennis, Flood, Foley, Geier, Goldmaking him president arose, he became the.m-411, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hart, Healy, Hen derson, Heard, H/owes, Kavanagh, Maurer, candidate of the whigs. who condemned the derson, Heard, Howes, Kavanagh, Maurer, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Montamat, Morris, Murwar as unjust and unholy, in muich stronger phy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, terms than he had justified it before. Orr, Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder, The question in this case arises, whether Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stauffer, we should give up our position among the Stiner, Stumpf, Suivan, Terry, Water, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President —61. nations of the earth, whether we should ' t~~~~~~There being no quorum, the sergeant-at lose our power in the political world for- There being no quorm, the sergeanat arms was directed to bring in absent mem ever? Says Abe Lincoln:'"I am in favor hers. of' the government,'"' of the governments' SAfter some delay the following members ONr. Ax,sTnx —,Nfr. President, I A the Mr. A' -Mr. President, I call the' appeared and took their seats:] gentleman to order. He is not speaking to Messrs. Baum, Collin, Fish, Mendiverri, the question. / Fosdick, Kugler, Cook T., Seymour, Fuller, PRSID.ENT-The gentleman is in order, Austin, Davies, Howell, Hire, Beauvais, and will proceed with his argument. S tocker, Thorpe-16. Mr. HEh'VERso\ —I never yet have asked t [A quorum being announced, the journal a gentleman because he differed with me to of yesterday was read and approved. 3106 4 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. iMr. C(azabat presented a resolution to the NAYs —Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bell, Bofill, effect that this Convention will adjourn sine Buckley, Burke, Campbell. Cook T., Cook de on the th day of June.].K., Duane, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fuller, I Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hart, Mr. -MO.NTA,IAT-I move to suspend tile Healy, Henderson, Howes, Maas, Maurer, rules for its adoption. Mendiverri, Monltamat, Murphy M. W., Nor [The motion was lost, and the resolution mand, O'Conner, Poynot, Purcell J. Schroelaid over. der, Schnuirr, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry. Reports of standing comnittees being in lWaters, Wenck, Wilson —44. order, i[Mr. Sullivan offered a substitute for Mr. Mr. Purs'ell, on behalf of the Committee Mr. PurseW, on behalf of the Committee aters's resolution. The substitute was on Contingent Expenses, reported favorably accepted on the bill of the city of New Orleans for Mr. Cazabat moved to table the substifitting up Liberty Hall for the use of the tte, upon which motion the yeas and nays Itrite, upon which motion the yeas and nays Convention. and accompanlied the report 1 Convention and accompanied the report 1were demanded, and being taken resulted with a resolution providing for the payment ilows] a.,4 follows: ] of said bill. ~~of said bill. | ~~Yz.s — Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Balch, Bal The same member, on behalf of the same ley, B,eauvais, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, committee. reported unfavorably on the Collin, Cazabat, Cutler, Davies, Dufresne, resolution of Mr. Terry, to appropriate one Duke Dupaty Edwards, Ennis, Fosdick, hundred dlGorlinski. Heard, Hills, Hire, Howell, hundred dollars for enrolling on parch Kparch- ugler, Mann. Mayer, Morris, Orr, Payne J., mnient and framing, etc.. of the ordinance Paine J. T., Pintado, Pursell S., Shaw, of emancipation.] Stumpf, Thorpe, Wells, Wilson-37. N:A.Ys, —-Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bell, Bofill, Mr. MONTAMAT-I move the report -be i Mess Abell,Barrett, Bell,Bofill, Buckley, Cook J. K., Cook T., Duane, Fish, adopted. ~~~~~~adopted.,Flood, Foley, Fuller, Geir, Goldman, Har [Carried. nan, Hart. Healy, Henderson, Howes, Unfinished business was taken up, and i Maas. Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Mur -1 T~~~~~~~~:hy -I. W., tNormand, O'Conner, Poynot, Mr. Bell's resolution of yesterday read: ph A Vce Normand, O'Conner, Poynot Purcell IJ. Schroeder, Schnmrr, Seymour, Resolved, That the following be adopted Smith, Spellicy. Stocker. Stiner, Stauffer. as a standing rule of this Convention: llian Terr Waters enck —-40. Sullivan. Terry,. Waters, Wenck —-40. When a question has been once decided fr. DAwij,:s —t move the whole subject be by the Convention, it shall not again be brought up for consideration, except by a referred to the next Legislature. motion to reconsider, which motion must Mr. AsFi,L-I desire to call the attention/ be made on the same or succeeding day, or f the Convention to a clause in a hand-bill by a vote of two-thirds of the members bavop resent. which I presented to my constituents, and present. Mr. BOFILI, —- move to lay it on the table. believe itwas read pretty generally in the [Carried. - parish of Orleans. Ilt is this: -Mr. aters resolutionwa ] I will advocate strenuously a pelianeut Mr. Waters'ss'resolution was read:' pi'eorganization for this metropolis, to Be it Resolved, That from and after this Polsist of permanent citizens of good charlate, the police force of the city of New consist of permanent citizens of good char date, the policeforceoftactei, to hold office during good behavior, Orleans shall receive from the citytreasury s with-,alaries never to be less than eighty the annual pay of- one thousand dollars, dollars per month. and removable only by payable monthly, and shall filrnish bond in charges plreferred before a committee to be the sum of one thousand dollars for the appoint y the eectie for the purpose faithful performance of their duties while |pnt b e tie fr proe subject to an appeal to the Board of Alderacting in the capacity of policem en h discharged, neer again to be me;whe{n discharged, never again to be [A motion was made to lay it on the eligib)le; and with suitable provisions for table, and on it appearing to be carried, the, those who may be disabled in the faithful discargeof'heir duties,. The safety and yeas and nays were called for, with the fol- diselarge o their dtie The safety an credit of this city, and justice to a faithfil lowing result:] officer. demand greater eartainty than now YF.A.s —Messrs. Ariail, Balch, Bailey,Beau- vais, Collin. Cazabat, Crozat, Davies, Duke So f,lr as the power of this Convention is D)ufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis Fosdick, Hed, Hills, Hire, Howell, Hwesnc ugl erned to pass upon this matter, we have Mann, Mayer, Morris,Orr,Pintado, Pursell S., as much power to engraft it on the constiShaw, Stauffer, Thorpe, Wells-30. tution as any branch of the judiciary. We I 301 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION have a right to have something permanent here. For the last fifteen years the police ha"been a mere hook for politicians to draw themselves into office, and many a young man, to whom was held out hopes of office, has been almost ruined in consequence. While we are making a permanent, solid judiciary, let us not forget the solidity of the city of New Orleans, and take this dangerous power out of the hands of politicians. I desire to move that this amendment be made the order of the day for Monday week, and be printed. Mr. CAZABAT-I cannot perceive the object of this amendment, and this matter is incompatible with the duties we are called upon to perform. We are here, not to make regulations for the police of New Orleans, but to revise the constitution of the State. I move that the whole subject be laid on the table. [The chair decided, that as a motion had been made and lost to lay the resolution on the table, the present motion only embraced the amendment and the motion to make it the order of the day. The yeas and nays were called for and the motion lost-yeas 37, nays 40. The motion of Mr. Abell was then carried. Mr. Bofill moved a call of the House, when the roll was called, and 77 members answered to their names. A motion to adjourn, by Mr. Bofill, was lost.] Mr. Hr-DEPs-oI can understand how it is that I see many men here of learning and experience sent here to make a constitution. Why didn't the people make a constitution themselves instead of sending us here to make it? Why did not they get together in a body and enact a constitution themselves, without calling for the intervention of this body? The parties might have made a party test and have made the constitution themselves, that would have been democratic. The old parties were whig and republican. There was no such thing as a democratic party until Jefferson's election; when the name was given in derison by the federalists. Mfr. Jefferson accepted the name, and always afterwards required his party to b)e called the derno- cr,atic party. The people did not, simply what that principle is, and if I am wrong I I i i .1 308 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. correct me. The great fundamental prin ciple is that all power is inherent in the people, and based upon that authority and instituted for their peace, prosperity and happiness. Upon these great principles enunciated and acted upon by our fathers in framing our national government, this Convention must build the fabric they are enacting. We should not for a moment lose sight of it, for it is the only safb founda tion upon which they can rely. In attempting to establish an appointive judiciary we are departing from these prin ciples; and yet, sir, no one who argues the policy of that system dare to come forward and say that these are not the great and true principles of a republican government; and hence all their arguments must fall to t he ground, becaus e th ey do not rest on the proper f oundations, and are opposed to the gr eat principles which f or m the chief corner stone of our great and glorious govern ment. cOne of the g ent leme n, andr. A bell, has s tated on this f loor that power in the hands of the people is dangerous, and that he is afraid to trust them on this question. If he is afraid to trust them on the judiciary, why trust them on any question? Are they not as capable of judging for themselves on this question as on any other? Are they not as capable of choosing their own judges as they are of choosing the governor and senators whom youi propose to give the power to appoint your judiciary? Is it true that any man in this day has so little confidence in the principles of our fathers, which have been tested in our American system of government, as to declare in 1864 that he has no faith in the people; that he does not believe the people are capable of' governing themselves? Sir, the people are capable' of governing themselves now, and always will be. If there was ever a time -when they were capable of judging of their rights, it is now; and wh6n I speak of the people, I refer to the loyal people of Louisiana. Mr. President, the people are jealous of their rights. I am jealous of my rights. I will not yield to any man my rights, however mulch confidence I may have in him. If I vote for a judge who is incompetent to do me justice. I am to blame, and I am re sponsible for my acti on. It is the peo ple who elect judges who a re the sufferers, and if they elect men who are i nc omp etent they must suffer for it. It is their right to elect their own judges. I have stated that all power is inherent in them, and they are re spogsible for the proper use of it. It was for these rig hts that our forefathers fought the war of independence, and it is our duty to guard th em with jeal ous c are. Wash ington, th e Fathe r of our count ry, who stands before me —look at him, [referring to a pa inting of Washington, fac ing the en trance to the hal l an d in the rear of the speaker's chair] - cautioned the p eople against the danger of allowing the exercise of these g re at prin ciples t o be usurpe d, and to guard them with jeal ou s care. He chose to trust the people rather t han any one ma n, though that o ne ma n w as hims elf, for such was the confidence of th e people inr him, that he had it in his power to retain a power without limit, and to transmit t it to a successor for all time, but h h e cho se to aban don this power t o the people, who would have made him a king had he desired it. He wa s a fraid to ta ke this pow er, be cause it was the principle for which he had fought. The principle for which the war between' England and the Colonies was waged, was the maintenance, on h e rt the part of the Colo nies, of the principle that, a ll powe r is in herent in the people. And now, in 1864, after another war on a most gigantic scale is being fought for the maintenance of the same principle, is it not strange that we find one man who dares to stand. on this floor and tell us that "the people are not to be trusted." What, I ask. are we to think of that system, built upon such a foundationa system with such a corner-stone? Is it reasonable to suppose that such a system could meet the approbation or gain the confidence of the people? Is it not most certain that the distrust would be mutual, and that a judiciary, appointed on the principle that the people were not to be trusted, would not be trusted nor respected by the people? But, sir, there are other grounds which have been urged against the elective judiciary. The country parishes, it is argued, will 309 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION suffer greatly if this elective judiciary pervails; that we cannot reach the object which an appointed judiciary will give us, namely, talent. Sir. I am in favor of securing the best talent the State can produce. And will these gentlemen tell me that I cannot choose for myself competent men? Will they admit that the people, in 1864, have so degenerated as to be unable to judge for themselves? If so, gentlemen, our government has failed, and we had better have an emperor or a king to govern us. The Supreme Court of the United States has been referred to as an example for our guidance in this matter. Let us compare it with the Supreme Court of this State. [See constitution of Louisiana, article 62.] There is nothing that comes before the Supreme Court of the State that has any relation to the United States. And, although the Supreme Court of the United States is an appointive court, it has nothing to do with the people of the States. The State courts settle all matters between citizens of their respective States. If I should commit an assault upon a member of this Convention, I should be held answerable before the State courts, and not before the courts of the United States. I should be brought before a judge who has been elected by the people of this State or appointed. and should have no appeal to the -United States courts. Mv friend from the Fourth District, (Mr. Cutler,) for whom I have the greatest respect, said that he contended for principles derived from Almighty God. Those are the principles I contend for, but I do not think he has exactly expressed them. Doing away with evil is one of the great principles of Almighty God. The gentleman must, then, want to do away with all evilthe grogshops and everything bad; but I dare say, that the gentleman, accoriding to his own showing, would be willing to continue them, and therefore could not maintain his ground. A judiciary cannot be established on the principles of our government that will be independent of party, because the executive must be elected, and he will almost always give precedence according to his party feeling. I will illustrate my state ment. Suppose, Mr. President, we were to elect a governor under a constitution containing the appointive power; then he has all the judiciary to appoint. Suppose i am a candidate for the governorship. I go t o all the men wha want a judgeship and say if you will use a ll your influence in my favor, I, upon my election, will appoint you to the desired positi on. On t he o ther hand, my op ponent says the same, so that in the end par ty ha s as much t o do with the matter as if it came dire ctly before the people, for one faction is arrayed against the other. Ca n you avoid this argume nt g I will say that I believe our pr es ent e xetcutive will appoin t only the best men, but this con stitut ional questi on had no bearing upo n hi s election, o f wh ich it was entirely irrespective. But what is to come hereafter? The governors hereafter'must be elected under this very constitution, if it lasts, when, if this article is adopted, as reported, and if any judgeships happen to be vacant, he can wield a vast power, through promising them to influential parties who will lse their influence in his favor. Another argument is that the judges are independent of the executive after them are appointed. I admit that. Now, I ask you, are they not independent after th-ev are elected? If the first is the case, the latter is also. The people for six or eight years, whatever may be the official term. have no more power'than the governor, because the judge is under no greater or different obligations to one than to the other. The great argument which it has beer the aim of my opponents to impress upon this Convention, is, that an elective jut(iiciary is and naturally must be corriipt;. simply because elected. If any judge after taking tt solemn oath before God Almighty that he will decide only according to the right, and then does decide in fa,v,or of any man or party on political grounds, I say he? is unfit to take his seat, and that he will favor the appointive or elective power which procured him his office. If the pepple are so corrupt as to be unable to elther a man who will discharge his duty faithfully, I say wee cannot by any mleans seCllJ'f an honest judiciary. The point hes been I i I I 310 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 311 elected by joint vote of the General Assem bly, and for a term of ten years. They shall have power to appoint their own clerks. The judges of the inferior courts shall be elected by the qualified voters of the district in which they reside, and shall hold their courts at such time and place as the General Assembly may direct; they shall hold their office for a term of six years, and until their successors are elected and qualified. Clerks of the inferior courts in this State shall be elected for the term of four years, and should a vacancy occur subsequent to an election it shall be filled by the judge of the court in which such vacancy exists, and the person so appointed shall hold his offi6e until the next general election. My reasons for offering the foregoing I will explain. If we cannot reach, through the people directly, the talent we wish, it must cer tainly be admit ted tha t the General Assembly contains the selected intelligence of the community, composing the representatives of all classes and parties. They will know who are the talented men in their several parishes. Suppose we make thejudiciary appointi ve, andI am then sent as a judge into the country parishes where no body knows me. How soon will there be a howl-though I decide rightly-that I, so totally unacquainted, have no business there? Are you willing, (I ask the country members) to have the executive send a man frim this city into your country parishes, there to. officiate as judge? [Cries of " no,, " no."] Will you admit that you are incompetent to determine who are fit to hold your offices, or that your representatives are not fit to decide for you? If you will, I will yield all. I only say that if the people are directly or indirectly incapable of judging for themselves in this instance, they are incompetent to elect any officer from president to the lowest. What~ I ask, is more ennobling to me than to have the people place me in a situiation where I can filfill my duty towards them by doing justice between them? The scheme of an appointive juidiciatyris repugnant to the principles urp)n which our government has been reared, and especially to its chief one, that all authority is inherent in the people. Why, sir, when the representatives met to frame a constitution they emphatically a rgue d t hat the people a r e corrupt. Who aei eor re the people? Are we not a convention of the people? [Applause.] According to the pos ition which has been taken, that there is not an honest man in the State, our judiciary must be corrup t! Are no t some of the members of this C onven tion m aking an attempt to use up the rights of the people. I say that they are endeavoring to go beyond the power s conferred upon them, whe n they seek to make the judiciary appointive. We are not her e by the appointive but by the elective power. [Applause.] I t is easie r to bribe one man than an enti re c ommu nity, and I might show that bribery and corruption has existed even in legislative bodies and conventions. I know of a n instance, in t he legislative body of Minnesota, w he re an attempt was made to d o an injustice to the people. For the sake of one man's vote I h av e kn own the members of that body to sit in their seats, sleeping and eating there, for nine days and nights-though plotting against the liberties of the peop le. T hey se nt six hundred miles for one member, and, finally, when he came he cast h is vote in favor of the people! [Applause.] Members maintain that if we, at this time, allow the people to elect the district court judges, the secessionists will elect their own judges, and that therefore the loyal citizens will not have any chance of a fair trial under them. Now, sir, I ask if we are not making laws for the secessionists? Are we afraid of them? LCries of "Yes," "No."] If we are to make a constitution that will last simply during the war, then I say give me an appointive judiciary in the country parishes; [applause,] but if we are to make a constitution to last for future generations-aand it will be very little honor to make one which will endure for only two or three days-I am willing to compromise this question, as you will see, by the amendments I have offered to articles 11 and 12 of the judiciary report. I will go farther. If we cannot get a judiciary directly from the people, let us get one from the most intelligent body in the State. My amendments are as follows: The judges.of the supreme court shall be DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION were even afraid to trust the different States Mr. STOCKER-I move to suspend the by electing their members to Congress for rules for its adoption. them, because of this antagonism! [Two-thirds not voting in the affirmative, Talk about England-about the talent of the motion was lost and the resolution laid her bench! That is all very well! If our over.] fathers had not fought against that govern- Mr. MONTAMAT-I offer the following: ment, I might consider action right, but as Resolved, That a copy of the resolution adopted by this Convention, tendering it is, let us not forget the principles upon adopted by this Convention, tenering whic, ~~~~~thanks to Major General N. P. Banks, be which we act to-day. We must support sent to him, (the same to be written on those principles of the grand charter of our parchment.) liberty and independence, or ifnot prepared I move a suspension of the rules to to do that, may as well bring our labors to adopt it. an end. [The motion was lost-yeas 36.] [A motion to adjourn was put and car- Mr. ORR-I offer the following: ried.] Resolved, That it shall be the duty of the Legislature, at its first session, to fix, by legislative enactments, the compensation to be paid to foremen, mechanics, cartmen MOND.AY, May 30, 1864. and laborers employed on the public works [The Convention met pursuant to ad- under the government of the State of Lou isiana and the city of New Orleans, at not journment, and after prayer by the Rev. less than the following rates: Mr. Horton, the roll was called and the Foremen of mechanics.... $4 00 per day, following members answered to their Foremen of carts......... 3.00.... ~~names*:)!~ Foremen of laborers...... 3 00 " " l *names if ~Mechanics.3 00 Messrs. Abell, Ariall, Balch, Bailey, Beau- Laborers.............. 2 00 vais, Bofill, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Camp bell, Collin, Crozat, Davies, Dufresne, Duke, [The motion was laid over. Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Reports of committees being in order Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Harnan, Hart I Healy, Heard, Hills, Howell, Howes Kava Mr. Wells, in the absence of the chairman nagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer Mayer, of the Committee on Correspondence RelaMontamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., New- tive to Compensation of Loyal Owners, ell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Paine submitted the following report:] J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE COMPENSAStumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, i TION OF LOYAL OWNERS FOR SLA.ES EM.NThorpe, Waters, Wenck. Wells, Wilson and CIPATED. Mr. President-66. To the honorable the president and members [There being no quorum, the sergeant- of the constitutional Convention: at-arms was directed to procure the attend- Your committee —appointed in obedience ance of absent members. to the following resolution, adopted May 10th The following members having entered "Resolved, Thata committee offive be apand taken their seats, viz: Messrs. Barrett, pointed by the president of this Convention Cazabat, Cook T., Cutler, Duane Fiiller, to draw appropriate resolutions, expressing Henderson, Hire, Morris, Schroeder and and recommending to the president and Congress of the United States the justice Stocker, (11) the president announced that and equity of making such appropriations there was a quorum present. as may be deemed proper and right, for a The minutes were read and adopted.] fair compensation to loyal citizens of Louis M. H -I offer the following resol iana for the loss of their property upon Mr. Hrmr-1I offer the following resolu- such terms, conditions and proof as may be tion:.!required"-respectfully submit the accom Resolved, That members of this Conven- panying memorial and resolutions for your tion who have not leave of absence, and adoption. who shall fail to' answer to the roll-call A. CAZABAT, Chairman, within twenty minutes after 12-M., shall M. R. ARIAIL, forfeit their per diem allowance for every TM. WELLS day of such absence, unless able to give a GEo. A. Fosnct, satisfactory excuse to the Convention. R. W. TALIAPRRO. 312 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 313 every slave within the State, having a full and confident reliance on the magnanimity of the people of the United States and of their representatives in Congress assembled for such compensation as may be just and equitable. Your memorialists further represent, that Great Britain pursued this course with signal success in emancipating the slaves of her West India colonies, the system of apprenticeship which was then introduced and continued for about four years compensated the former owners for the support of that class of aged and infirm persons which must here become paupers to be suppelted at public expense. The State must also expend large sums of mon ey in th e educ ation and moral culture of these emancipated slaves, that they may be fitted for their new position and increased privileges as freemen. Your memorialists freely acknowledge tha t the institu t ion for which they ask ompensation was a wron g per s e, but of that wrong they were not the exclus ive per - petrators-the whole nation participating in the auilt o f i ts introduction-and many of the slave s n ow e manci pate d a re the lineal descendants of those who were brought from more northern States when slaver y c eased to be pr ofitable and emancipation there became in evita b le. The loyal citizens of Louisiana are in the same position that was occupied by, a nd have the same claims for comp ensation that were urged in favor of the ci tizens of the District of Colu m bia. Nay, their claim is even stronger, for theirs is a voluntary sacrifice made for the public weal, whil e the other was a compulsory order made and executed by Congress. Without attempting to fix the amount of compensation or to suggest the manner in which it ought to be made, your memorialists submit this, their petition, with a full reliance in the justice and equity of their claim, and that the liber ality and hon or o f the n ation will r ecognize its rightfulness. Resolved, That the committee on the compensation of loyal citizens for slaves emancipated be directed to cause the accompanying memorial to be engrossed in duplicate, signed by themselves and attested by the president and secretary of this convention, and that they also transmit one copy of the same to the senate and the other to the House of Representatives of the United States. Rpesolvetl, That the committee be instructed to correspond upon the subject of compensa-ting loyal slave-owners with such members of the Congress of the United States as they may think proper.' Mr. ABELL-I offer the following amend This memorial of t he constitution al Convention of the St ate of L ouisi ana respectfully showeth: That this Convention was convened at Liberty Hall, in the city of New Orlea ns. in obedience t o the proclamati on of the Hon. Mic hael Hahn, g overnor of the State of Louisiana, a nd t6 the order No. 35 issued by Major Gen. N. P. Banks, commanding the d epart ment of th e gulf, t o revise and amend the constitution of the State of Louisiana; b e ing im pelled b y a du e regard for the public welfare, and an earnest desire not only to suppress existing rebellious comb inatio ns against the laws, honor and dignity of the United States, but to forever remov e wh ate ver may tend to mar the future peace and general welfare of the whole c ount ry, have p assed an o rdin ance which is the fund am ental and supreme law of the State, abolishing forever involuntary servitude, ex cep t as a punishment fo r crime, and forbidd ing f utur e Legislatures from passing any act recognizing property i n man. Your memorialists fur the r represent, that in the year 1860, according to the census the n taken, there were within th ae State of LQuisiana 331,726 slaves, valued at 150,. 000,000 dollars, and that a number of the owners thereo f ever have b een, and stil l rema in loyal citizens of the United States, and that in conse quen ce of this thei r loyalty and unfaltering d evotion to the cause of Union and freedom, their property has been sacrific ed and dest roy ed by the enemy, and themselves driven into an exile of poverty and destitution. In thus giving up what in many cases is their last earthly possession, they are actuated by no other motive nor have they any other wish than to re-establish and maintain the constitution and institu tions of the United States. But they respectfully submit that in justice and equity they are entitled to such relief from the Federal government as may in some measure compensate loyal slaveowners for the great sacrifice they have made for the general welfare; and that the whole burden ought not to fall on the loyal people of Louisiana, impoverished as they already are by the destruction and devastation which- always prevail on the theatre of war. That other States in which the emancipation of slaves has been effected without assistance from the Federal government have done so in times of peace and prosperity, and by a gradual process which enabled the owners to provide for the change in the labor system and reimburse themselves for the expense of raising the infant slave. But as any such plan of emancipation, under present existing circumstances here, ix impracticable, they have declared the immediate and unconditional emancipation of 40 ment: -ProvOed, That the payment be made to DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Thirty-seven thousand and forty-three dollars and forty cents. JOHN P. MONTAMAT, Chairman pro tem. Finance Committee. New Orleans, May 30, 1864. May 23-Balance on hand as per report No. 6...... $8759 48 May 27 —Paid M. DeCoursey for contingent expenses, as per voucher on file, warrant No. 53....... 1830 85 May 30-Balance onhand this day, $6928 63 Six thousand nine hundred and twentyeight dollars and s ixty-thr ee cents. JOHN P. MONTAMA~T, Chairman pro tem. Finance Committee. New Orleans, May 20, 1864. the loyal citizens before the final adoption of this constitution. Mr. CAZABAT-I move to lay the amendment on the table. [The motion was carried by a viva voce vote. The report was then accepted-yeas 42 nays 7. Mr. Abell appealed from the decision of the chair in regard to laying the amendment on the table. The chair was sustained and the yeas and nays called tfor, but not a sufficient umber arose to support the demand.] Mr. MONTAMAT-I move that 300 copies of the report be printed. Mr. WENCK-I am'end to 200. [Amendment was accepted and the motion carried.] [Mr. Cazabat's resolution of Saturday, relative to a final adjournment on the 6th of June, was laid on the table. The order of the day was then taken up, and the discussion of the judiciary report resumed.] Mr. SMITH —I wish to say a few words to, explain my vote. I wish to ask if the people are interested in this branch of the government, and if this is the only department that is not subject to improvement? It has been asked if we are wiser than those who have gone before - than Washington, Adams, Franklin, and such great men of the olden time. If Robert Fulton could be put on board of one of the floating palaces that traverse our rivers, he would not even know how to let on the steam or shut it off, although he is the inventor of the steamboat. It would be strange if this subject has not been subject to progress. If the people are interested in the judiciary, ,they alone have the right to say whether it shall be elected or not. Franklin said he believed that such would be the progress of the next century, that the mails would be carried between Boston and Philadelphia in five days, but now it is done in a few hours. In arguing this question, a gentleman has tauntingly asked if the people were competent to decide. Will he go home to his constituents and use the same argumentthat they can be swayed by prejudice and their votes bought? I supported the amendment of Mr. Abell, that the Supreme Court should have a supervisory control over the other courts. As the gentlemen are afraid the judiciary will lee contami Mr. ABELL —I move that the same number of copies of the amendment be printed. [A motion to lay te ls t the last motion on the table was lost.] Mr. HILLS-I voted to lay the amendment on the table, but I like to see justice done, and I understand that Mr. Abell called for a division on the laying of his amendment on the table, therefore I move to reconsider the vote by which that amendment was tabled. [The chair decided that it was too late, as the report had been adopted. The motion to print the amendment was then carried. Mr. Montamat, of the Committee on Expenses, submitted the following reports:] May 23-Balance on per report Na May 24-Paid war rant No. 47. May 24-Paid war rant No. 48. May 25-Paid war rant No. 49. May 28-Paid war rant No. 50. May 28-Paid war rantNo. 51. May 28-Paid war rant No. 52. May 28-Paid war rant No. 54. May 30-Balance on hand this day................ $37,043 40 314 $47,186 40 860 00 —$,10,143 00 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 315 Mr. President, in throwing down the gauntlet I anticipated the great opposition in argument which has been displayed on this floor, and will endeavor to answer to the best of my humble abilities. Mr. Wilson stated: "That an appointive judiciary worked so well that there never was a complaint against it from 1812 to 1852." If this be true, how came it, the elective to be instituted, then, if ax appointive judiciary worked so harmoniously?' It was overthrown in'52, and an elective substituted. He might say this was the work of thugs and know noth in gs, who did this to benefit by it. Then if th is be so, their day has come and gone, and to-day the honest, hard-working laborer and l o yal is t are the voters, and there is no fear of one o f t hese no ted thugs, Red Bill and Bob Johnson included, bein g e lected to office. He says it is not retrograding —" an appointive judiciary not retrograding." It is surely not a step to advance civilization, but rather one to retard it, losing all confidence in the people,_ sapping at the very foundations of that greatest of all bulwarks, American liberty. What is th i s gre at b attle? Who are the opponents? Is it no t the la wye rs against the people, and the people against the lawyers? Do not the people know who are talented lawyers, and who are mere walking-sticks? If two talented men are pitted against each other in a campaign, if they have committed any errors, will it not see the light of day in honest competition? Mr. Wilson also says: "If the judge is appointed he is independent." I cannot see it in that light. The same power that appoints him makes him dependent thereto and holds a great influence over him, and he has only to please one instead of the populace. Permit me to state how independent they are at the present day, and what one of the honorable judges thinks of the honorable members of this Convention. A learned and honorable judge, when asked the ques tion, " If he was a member of this honora ble body?" he replied, "Thank God, he had not reached that depth of degradation yet." Mr. AbellsSays:. " All know the people's nated by the touch of the people, I have a substitute I wish to offer, and that is that the judges be elected on the same principle as our United States senators. Let us keep the executive hand out of it, for fear there might be some little prejudice. [The chair decided that it would not be in order till the present amendment was disposed of.] Mr. SMITH —I wish to refer to one State in which the people have less'liberty than in any other State. An appointed judge in Charleston, after the result of the last presidential election was received, said "every right of the people had been swept away by the ballot-box." I say this belongs to the people, and I shall always sustain their rights in this matter. Mr. TERRY-Mr. President and gentlemen, this is Liberty Hall, do as you please. "The evil that men do live after them; the good is oft interred with their bones." Thus exclaims the great Bard of Avon-who held the mirror up to nature and drew the characters of men. But Brutus was an oratorI am none. Not like the drowning man catching at straws, but as a free and loyal citizen, native to the soil and manner born, of this great American republic, do I stand here and grapple with ye. You have seized in your great and mighty arguments the people as the common herd. Like the Indians of the far West driving before them the buffalo herd onward to the edge of a steep and yawning abyss, when beholding their danger they turn and trample their drivers beneath their feet. I hear you all exclaim this is not argument. I will give you argument; not a six weeks' speech, but one prepared in six hours. Not influenced, not prejudiced, but alone and unaided-and all I ask is your patient hearing-beseeching you if my principles are to die here, you will give me respectful burial, and do me the honor to say to my constituents I flinched not, neither did I waver from the great ftindamental principles of American liberty! Give me an extemporaneous speech says one-my style of extemporaneous speaking might be too severe; therefore I will be lenient, and express what I have to say on paper, in order to keep the thread of your mighty arguments. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Draconian, the Chinese, the Juggernaut of India, and the damnable black code of Louisiana-I fail to see it. But I am no lawyer, only a tack driver. The gentleman from the Fourth, the Hon. R. King Cutler, with very questionable taste, takes members to task who oppose an appointive system, because they are not lawyers, and tells us we are medd ling with a subject which we do not understand. Now, notwithstanding my high estimate of Mr. Cutler as a man of learning, I do not and shall not admit that all the honesty and wisdom of the world is centered either in that gentleman or the legal profession of which he is so bright a member. The worthy son of Esculapius, the merchant, the planter, the farmer, the editor, the mechanic and even the humble disciple of the immortal Bard of Avon, possess some degree of common sense and honesty. They, at least know that the people have rights, which it is our duty to guard and protect, among which is the right sacred to every American heart-the right of electing their own rulers-a right which they will never give up, and for which I shall contend as long as I breathe the breath of life. Mr. Cutler, it appears to me, was most unfortunate in his allusion to John Slidell and Judah P. Benjamin, in connection with the judiciary, and after his earnest appeal to decide this question with reason, and his modest insinuation that all the le arning and wisdom were on his side, the greatest portion of which was centered in himself. He W.Is particularly unfortunate in his assertion that John Slidell was a member of the convention of 1852, and that it was to Slidell and Benjamin the people are indebted for an elective judiciary, and displays a want of candor or of information at which I am astonished. In the first place, John Slidell was not a member of that convention; in the second place, although he was nominally a democrat, he was at heart an aristocrat, and opposed to an elective judiciary, and in favor of the very principle contended for by Mr. Cutler. Mr. Benjamin was in the convention of 1852, and by reference to the proceedings usurpations." The people will hurl a good judge from office and place a demagogue in his place." In the history of this State I have failed to find it. But I have known that within the last two years demagogues have been appointed, and a petition signed by a thousand loyal citizens has failed to remove them, simply because it found its way in the paper basket of a military go vern or. My learned and honorabl e friend R. Ki ng Cutler says-'- He is no dramatist, no phrenologist, no psychologist, nor a Macbeth, or a Macduff." Now, I shall certainly exclaim with Macbeth, on the argument, "Damn'd be he who first cries hold! enough!." But Macbeth belongs not to my side of the qu es tion, but, as a Kingly character, holds to the appointive. Th erefore, when the gentleman mentioned t he two opposit e s in such close proximity, he took upon himself the Kingly crown, and has only become terrifi ed at the close proximity of Macduff and the great " Bwirnim d wood which has come to Dunsinane " agains t h im- the people. Now, th en, let me stat e here I am "no lawyer" but a tack drive r, and will endeavor with my humble ability to nail his argument. He says th at "-law controls the univ erse and our very being;" such is the fact, but they are the unerring laws of natur e and justice, c onc eiv ed an d g iven by the Almighty, and controlled by Him. These are Divine laws, not lawyers' laws. The laws of the Medes and Persians, bad and unchangable, were laws. The Draconian laws were laws of blood. The Lycurgian, which ruled the Spartans in glory and renown five hundred and sixty-nine years, were laws of equal and humane rights. The Solou laws of Greece were aristocratic, and unequal for good' The thousand and one laws of inhumanity and wickedness might be enumerated. The laws of the Cannibals, Chinese and Juggernaut of India, and' the damnable black code of Louisiana, these are laws, but not the infallible laws of universal justice. Now, then, does the gentleman show there is any harmony existing between nature's laws, which control the universe and our own being, and the laws of the Medes and Persians, the 316 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 317 tion, the honorable gentleman had not now the honor of a seat, especially if the people had known his sentiments; and let him and all who think with him beware how they misrepresent the people on this vitally important question. The free State party to-day are in favor of an elective judiciary, because they have conceived the idea that we are verging into a monarchial government. I wish to save the constitution. I hope and wish it may be ratified; but I tremble for the consequences if the gentleman'y in i es prin ciples prev ail. Mr. Presiden t, I was astounded at the admis sion of the gentleman that he pr e ferred the s uccess of the appointive judiciary to the immortal ordinance of emancipation. The appointive judiciary and aristocratical institution-the few ruling the many-rather than the enfranchisement and the liberation of man from hell-bound bondage. What a comparison! Have we ears and do we hear? I stand amazed and ask, shall this white slavery be inaugurated? The honorable gentleman also says I used unbecoming language. I wish the printer had published my remarks, it would have aided the gentleman to have pointed it out. What were his remarks in behalf of our worthy auditor? Was his language becoming or not? making a personal attack on one who was unarmed-who had not the power to reply to him. I wish tq God we had a thousand men like him to-day, and we would have proper men in office. He is not to be pandered to by dinners and emoluments, but as a fearless and just servant of the people serves them faithfully, and makes no distinction between the learned judge of the bench and the ignorant though honest hod-carrier. I do not believe that State officer ever used his office to convince men, but as A. P. Dostie, the friend of union and liberty, claimed that right as well as the talented judges that I see visit here to advocate their views in regard to the appointive. Mr. Thorpe argued as if the constitution is to continue only so long as the war lasts. But I hope and believe that our work will standl for ages. While the war lasts military law is para of that convention it will be seen that he uised precisely the same argument in favor of an appointive system, and in opposition to an elective one, as Mr. Cutler does. In fact, if Mr. Cutler does not borrow his speech from J. P. Benjamin, he furnishes an apt illustration of the popular refrain, "great minds think al ike." The gentleman says: "A judge who is running before the people has to cater for votes in beer saloons and grogshops." The honorable members of this Convention occasionally do frequent these very grogshops, and the honorable gentleman was free to admit-" He liked good whiskey." Now suppose a judiciary election was at hand, would he, the honorable gentleman, or any of the other honorable members of the Convention, if applied to by an aspirant for judicial honors, consent to support him because per se, he too liked good whiskey, or would you be men, citizens entertaining a proper appreciation and solemn obligation to your duties, and answer no! and nominate and vote for the man or men to these honorable positions for their virtues and high worth in the community? The gentleman says,'I am influenced and prejudiced by others." Ideny the assertion, unless a man's fixed principles be prejudice. All the learned rhetoric and arguments that have been displayed on this floor have failed to convince me that wrong was right! He says I was six weeks preparing my argument; on the contrary, I was but twenty-four hours, but I waited six weeks to deliver it. The gentleman says, "Save Louisiana;" are we not saving her. in saving her free, liberal and loyal institutions by upholding the people-in their elective franchise and rights? In a republic all laws proceed from the people! The gentleman says, "1 Ten thousand votes were cast in the last election." Was one vote cast on the question of appointive judiciary? Was the judiciary question at all involved in either of the elections? No, and the gentleman knows it well. He knows well if the friends of loyalty and freedom had been consulted on this ques I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION mount-above this Convention and above its work. The military law is not only amply able to take care of the well dressed 500 men who so frantically rushed to the Picayune office for the bogus proclamation, and disturbed the nerves of Mr. Thorpe, but it will see to it that the Red Bills and Thugs about whom he has said so much shall not control the judicial election, any more than any other election. If there be so much danger of the rebels electing our judges, as Mr. Thorpe and others seem to think, is there not the same danger of their electing the governor and senate, the first of whom it is proposed shall nominate our judges and the second confirm them for life. But I deny that there is any danger of the rebels electing either, and only allude to that portion of the ad captandum appeal of the friends of the appointive system, in order to show, that, like a two-edged sword, it cuts both ways. If it is an argument against an elective judiciary, it is an argument which applies with equal, if not greater force, against any election by the people, especially against the election of a governor, who this Convention has already decided shall be elected by the people. Col. Thorpe touches on the death of Robert Emmett, that noble and'inspired martyr of liberty. But he perverts history. Look at his dying speech; it is short —with your permission I will read one or two quotations from it, that all may judge. [Reads quotations.] Ten years hence the same scene may be enacted in America by an appointive judiciary, the power behind the throne, for we are liable to drift in the direction of tyranny when we deprive the people of their right to govern. Some say the affairs of this State are so complicated that it is not consistent with the times nor safe to elect judges for the present. Some offer a compromise. Listen to the compromise that I and my constituents are willing to accept. Under the title of ordinace of the constitution, I am willing for the insertion of this article-that no election for judges, justices of the peace, sheriffs, coroners, tax collectors, assessors, district attorneys, &c., shall be held until two years after peace. Th(n the remedy rests in you r own hands. Let the judge s be elected two yea rs after peace, give them a proper salary, and le t th e electi on be made the great campaign of the State. THE people are greater t han the executive -gre ater than conven tio ns-greater tha n aristocracy, oligarchies and monarchie s-say next to God himself. Mr. WE,CcK-The gentleman's speech has certainly no t co nvin ced me, nor do I believe it could'any other man who takes an |intere st in the subject. As a specimen of the platform which the people approve, I will read the following, from a circular addressed to his constituent s by a membe r of this Conven tion: FELLOW-CITIZENS: I am a candidate for your suffrages. Having at all time s oppose d the frauds and vio lence perpetrated upon a la r ge portion of our citizen s and the' ba llot box, I wo uld now prefer a defeat to success by fraud and violence. If elected, I would favor a judiciary appo inted by the e xecutive, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to hold office during good behavior, with am ple salaries, and removable by impeachment only. As an example of the interest whi ch th e people have in this qu estion of elective judiciary, let us refer to the last election held here in 1860, for district judge. At that time four vote s were cast in the name of a man who ha d be en buried for the last two or th ree year s. Th e gen tleman says that nowth othuggery had ceas ed and will rule no more; but even if this be so, we shall have parties none the le ss. Su ppose a copperhead, a sec essionist and a Union man should run for the same office, would the gentleman cast his vote for the former? No, he would not; but party consideration would dictate his vote. In a case of an elective judiciary, the candidate pledges himself to men who will support him in his efforts to obtain the office to which he aspires, and consequently he cannot be impartial. Is it not against conscience to raise up such judges? I ask you, in God's name, if you can show me any satisfactory law made by an elective judiciary? I say you cannot, and that the decisions which have I 318 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 319 raised under article 3 of the report of the Committee on the Judiciary Department. That article refers to the Supreme Court, shows how it shall be composed, fixes the majority necessary to do business and the salaries of the judges, and provides that the court shall appoint its own clerks, etc. To that an amendment has been offered, upon which this debate has originated. That amendment, submitted by the gentleman from the Third District,.(Mr. Sullivan,) gentlemen, by observing, will perceive is in reality a substitute for the article 3 of the report, and differs from it in only two points. It varies the salaries of the proposed judges of the Supreme Court, and following, almost literally, the words upon the same subject in the constitution of 1852, declares that the judges of the Supreme Court shall be elected for the term of ten years. With this exception, and the change in the salaries, the amendment does not differ from the report. Now, the point is, whether the judges shall be elected or not. The debate has taken a wide range, and it would be well for members to bring their thoughts to this one point before they decide either upon the adoption of the report or the substitute which has been offered, and upon which they are called upon to vote. This substitute provides that the judges slias t be elected. The report says, in another part, they shall be appointed. It is not my part, Mr. President, to arraign either one of these modes before this Convention. It is not necessary, sir, for us to come to a radically correct conclusion that one of the modes is wholly bad, or that the other is wholly good, for all systems of human invention are imperfect, and it is the duty of wise men, in organizing a system for the good of the country, to carefully select that system which has the fewest defects. And in coming to this conclusion it will be my purpose to show that the appointive is the one which has the fewest defects. Not that there no good points in the other; that the elective is wholly wrong, and that all judges who have been elected have been partial and unjust; nor that the judiciary under the elective system has been a failure. But, sir, my purpose and object are to #how that under been of t he mos t au thor ity have for the l as t hundred years bee n given by an appointive judiciary. Do you believe if Judge Martin was living that he would, for the four or six years office, run arouns among the people? Certainly not; and from men who will r esort to these means to obta in a judge ship y ou can never form a court of t alent or obtain that impartiality which otherwise will exist. Go among the laboring cl asses and br ing a candidate bef ore them; very many will cast th eir vot es without knowing what they are doing. Let us then have an appointivewudiciary, who will hold their offic es during good be havi or; then the people, both rich and poor, will be benefited thereby, but otherwise it will be dollars and cents that will carry the election. M r. HOWEL v-Mr. P resident, I certainly should not desire to proceed when it is evident that a considerable portion of this Convention is already tired of hearing speeches, did I not deem it an imperative duty for this Convention to dispatch their business, and not waste their own and the time of the people in considering foolish resolutions. I feel that it is particularly unfortunate that the closing -of this argument devolves upon me. Unfortunate, because I am myself a member of the department to which the question relates. Unfortunate, because I feel to-day less prepared to argue the question than I was the first day of the discussion. Unfortunate, because I have been preceded by gentlemnen who have so successfully carried with them the popular sentiment, against which it will be difficult for a man in my position to contend. Nevertheless, as a matter of duty, I shall not shrink from the task that devolves upon me, and in doing so, I shall endeavor to divest my remarks of appeals to passion and to prejudice. I shall endeavor to refrain from that character of declamation which is suited to the rostrum rather than to a deliberative body. I shall direct my remarks to the reason and common sense of this body, and shall ask a patient hearing. In the first place we must ascertain the points before the Convention. They are DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION our former system of government the interests of the people are best secured under judges appointed by the governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate. All the arguments we have heard against this system divide themselves into two distinctive characters: First, That it is a denial of the right and the capacity of the people to elect judges. Second, That it is placing too much power in tb- hands of the governor. To these propositions I propose to direct attention for a few minutes. Why is it a denial of the rights of the people, in'what particular is it a denial of the capacity of the people to select their judges? If that question were necessary to solve the point, I would answer readily that the people have the capacity and the right to select all their officers. But I do not think that question is necessarily involved in this subject. It is not necessary to deny their capacity, it is not necessary to deny their right, but it is a question of policy, of expediency, to determine which it is necessary to look at the object for which the judiciary is established in our form of government, and the character of that department. timent of a ny par ticular pa rty o r locality? Must a judge, in order to enable him to de cide the constitution a lity of a law, repre sent the popular sentiment of any par ticular class of citizens? The judiciary are governed only by the pr inciple s of law, and it is the interest of the people that everything like political character should be exclude d from its-that the re sho uld be no temptation f or the judge, to l et political considerations enter his mind while form ing his judgme nts. Tha t interest is badly promoted by putting the judge before the people as the candidate of a poli tica l par ty. It is to th eir interes t that the jud ge should be as far removed from all political co m motion and public excitement as it is possi ble for men to be removed. To effect this what is the best mode? I take the position that the appointive is the best that the i n tellect of men has prese nted, an d for these reasons an d ma ny others. The gove rnor is elected by th e whole people of the State. True, he is elected by some political party being in the majority, but when once elected he represents the whole people of the State, and in making his selections for judges of the Supreme Court, he is not re sponsible to the people of any particular locality, and the judge appointed by him has no inducement to look to the political sentiments of any particular locality. He knows that he is appointed by the power which represents the whole State. But, sir, there is a stronger argument than this. The great danger is not that the judge will be influenced by political considerations, but that the people will suspect him of it. However pure and unbiased a decision may be, there are those who will attribute the maintenance of legal principles, which led to certain conclusions, to political motives. A mere accusation of that kind tends more to degrade the judiciary and make the law ineffective in accomplishing its great mission. It is an effect that, more than any other, renders it necessary that au appointing power should select the judges of the Supreme Court. I am aware of the power of the appeal which is made upon this floor, that the rights of the people are infringed in the effort to remove the judiciary from popular Ou r gove rnment consists of three depart ments, each sep arate an d d is tintinct in its functions from he other, the executiv e, the l egisl a ti ve and the judiciary. You all know the duties d evolving upon the l egis la tive. I t i s to make laws for the people. They are the representatives of the people in declaring the sovereig n will, which is law. The executive is t he arm of the people, to execu te tha t law. And the judiciary is to interpret and maintain the law. Mark well the distinction-to interpret, enforce and maintain the law. If you enact a bad law, the judge must, under his oath, execute it, whatever may be his convictions of its want of correctness and injustice. However his conscientiousness may be opposed to it he must enforce it. The remedy is in the lawmaking power. but the judiciary is best calculated to show the defects of the law, and this is left to the judiciary department. Is it necessary that a judge, when he is chosen to pass upon the constitutionality or the force of a law, should be chosen by a popular vote to represent the popular sen 320 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. take the wost trouble and bear the expense of securing their votes. I do not says that this has always been done, but I say that this is the tendency of the stem. If everybody who was entitled to a vote would turn out and cast his vote without prejudice and without influence, the system would be less objectionable. And every .man here will sustain me in the assertion that the elective system has been a magnificent failure in regard to the appreciation of the voters. That good men have been selected under it, it does not become me to deny; that bad men have been selected under it, is not necessary for me to assert. But I do say, most unhesitatingly, that to continue the election of judges tends to place the selection of the judiciary in the hands of those who have no time to do anything but to vote-in the hands of political tricksters. Mr. President, I will yield the floor for a motion to adjourn, and, with the consent of the Convention, will conclude my remarks to-morrow morning. e [A motion to adjourn was made and carried.] commotions. Gentlemen forget, in their appeal, the real in teres t of the people which they desire to advocate. It is not true, sir, t hat the ad voca tes of the appoin t i ve system desire for one moment to in fringe upon the righs of the people of L ou isiana. But they do not hold, str, that the only right a peopl e has is to vote- to vote often, e arly and to vote all the time, and t o vote for every thing. Will the gen tlemen look for a m omen t at the statistical record of the elective judiciary, in Louisi ana. The first election of jadges took place in 1853; what was the popular vote on that occasion? I have not th e statistics, but my recollection is that about 40 per cent. of t he vo ting popul at ion alone took part in that vote. I know t hat in Ne w O rleans in 1857 t he popular vote for judges was abou t 3700 or 3800, somethi ng under 4000. In 1861 the popular vote was still less than in'57. What does this argue? Gentlemen will bear in mindt a that the popular vote cast at the election immediately preceding the m were some 10,000. Wha t doses? this vote argue? If the people feel that this is an abridg eme n t of their rightsife t the election of the jud iciary ny popular vote be so e ssentia l to the enjoyment of thei r p o litica l right s -h ow do gent lemen account for the small number of votes cast at these electi ons? Mr. SMITH- How was it in the cou ntry parishes? Mr. HOWELIs-I am a wa re h o w gentlemen will attempt to evade the question b y re fere nce t o the cou ntr y parishes, but I will not conf in e m yself to N ew Orlean s; I will take you to the country. In one of the parishes whe n the succesor of Tho. Slidell was before the people as a candidate, n o po ll s were opened. In the parish of Concordia, in one small precinct, the polls were opened and four votes were cast for Merrick. The whole voting staqtistics show a beggarly want of numbers in every judicial election since 1853, and is a tremendous commentary upon the elective system, and the result is necessarily this: that the election of judges falls into the hands of political characters and professional voters-men who hold themselves in the market to cast their votes for the party or the candidate who will 41 TUESDAY, May 31, 1864. [The Convention met pursuant to adjourninent, and was called to order by the president. The proceedings were opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Strong.; The roll was called, and the following members answered to their names: ] Messrs. Abell, Balch, Bailey, Barrett, Bofill, Bromley, Btickley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. K., Crozat, Decker, Duke, Dufresne, Edwards, PEnnis, Fish, Flagg, Flood. Foley, Gorlinski, Harnan, Healy, Heard. Hills. Howell. Howes' Kavanagh, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry,Waters, Wells, and Mr. President-60. [There being no quorum present, the sergeant-at-arms was directed to procure the attendance of absent members. After some delay, Messrs. Beauvais, Bell, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Hart, Henderson, Hire, Maurer, Murphy E., Smith, 321 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Stocker, Thorpe, Wenck, and Wilson entered, took their seats and answered to their names. The minutes were read and adopted. 'No resolutions being offered, unfinished business was declared in order, when Mr. Stocker moved a suspension of the rules to allow Mr. Thorpe to offer a resolution, he not having submitted it in order. The rules were suspended by a vote of 54 in the affirmative.] Mr. THORPE-I propose the following resolition, which I should be much pleased to see adopted: Resoeed, That after this date (May 31st, 1864,) the order of the day shall be taken up immediately after the minutes shall have been read bv the clerk and accepted by the Convention, and that Saturday of each week shall be appropriated to miscellaneous business. the second reading of the report on judiciary, and the discussion resumed.] Mr. HOWELL-Mr. President, in my remarks yesterday I endeavored to show that it was not necessary in this debate to deny the right or the capacity of. the people in order to arrive at a rational conclusion in this matter. The people have a right to make laws in their own name and in their own assembly, but in a large community it is impracticable, and they must necessarily elect their representatives-their agents for making laws for the community. If every voter becomes perfectly familiar with the qualifications and the fitness of every candidate for the judiciary, he will have the capacity to make a proper selection; but in order to ascertain the qualifications and the fitness of the judge, the majority of the people must necessarily depend upon information derived from others. An attorney or counsellor-at-law has the reputation of being a prominent lawyer. His peculiar qualities as a lawyer are known to those who come in contact with him; but his general reputation and particular fitness for any department or branch of the law is known to a few, and circulated only by those who know them. So, however fit a man may be for the judgeship, I contend, and appeal to the experience of every man within the hearing of my voice, that every voter in the district or city in which he may :be a candidate is not familiar with his peculiar fitness for that judgeship. I argue from this that the people, in order to make a judicious selection, must necessarily de'pend upon the advice and information of a fe w; a nd in applying this argument I say the at the sgove rnor has the ame facility-the same means for obtaini ng th at knowledgewhich the m ass of th oe people have. I say the governor, if he be such a governor as the int elligent people of this State shoul d select, has a better opportunity for making the most bppropriate selection, because the whole peopl he have not the opp ortunity to investigate the merits and reliability of the information communicated to them on that point;while the action of one man, direeted to one particular iprpose, all will admit must bee more effective than those diffuses and diversified efforts of the most of [On' motion, the rules were suspended for its adoption-,yeas 55.] Mr. MONmTAMAT-I move the resolution be laid on the table. [Lost-yeas 21, nays 51. The re solution was the n adopted by a vot e of 54 to 18. It was stated there was no quorum, and a call of the House was demanded by Mr. Sullivan. The roll was called, when 76 members answered to their names. Mr. Hills's resolution of yesterday was read.] Mr. Mo,,riAM,T —I offer the following amendment: That the honorable member of the Second Representative District (Mr. Hills) shall forfeit his per diem for every day he shall fail to answer to his name within fifteen minutes after 12 o'clock M. [On motion, the resolution and amendment were laid on the table. Mr. Orr's resolution of yesterday was read.] Mr. SMITH-I move to lay it on the table. [The yeas and nays were demanded. butX the call not being sustained, the resolution was laid on the table by a rising vote of 40 to 35. Mr. Montamat's resolution of yesterday was read and adopted. The order of the day was then taken up,, i 322 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. the people. I will ask of the members of this Convention, how many of them personally knew the candidates for whom they voted for the Supreme Bench of this State, and how they got their information? As to the qualifications of the various candidates, the answer is readily to the minds of every one. Upon the point, then, as to the capacity of the people, I contend, that the people, when properly informed, have the capacity; I contend furthermore, that the appointing power, aided by the Senate of the State, have equal capacity and greater opportunities. The governor directs his examination with reference to the applicants before him. He sets on foot investigation and inquiry. If he be an honest man-and I trust Louisiana will never elect any other as governor-he will direct his investigation with respect to the peculiar fitness of the man to the position. He will have the aid and advice of the representatives from the particular locality where each of the candidates reside; and when he has come to his conclusion, and made his selection, it is then again investigated and passed upon by the conservative part of the representative government of the State. All the means, all the facilities within the reach of man are afforded for coming to an accurate and correct determination; while it very frequently happens that i n elec tions th e vot es are controlled more by party organization and the dictates of party leaders, than by a just knowledge of the qualifications of the candidates. th i s purpose, and I cla im t hat that agency which is best suited -fo r the pu rpose. is the governor, with the assist ance and advic e of the Senate, for the reasons which I ha ve attempted to explain. I also attempted to show, Mr. President, that the cha ra cter of and the duties which devolve on the judiciary department demand that the sele ctio n of t he judge s shall be as far remo ved fr om popu lar commotion as possible. It is not necessary now to repeat what I attempted then to elucidate. I leave it to the intelligence of each man o n this floor to carry out this-subjec t, and determine what are the duties of the judicia,ry and the rights involved. I leave it for the gentlemen here, who can come to as accurat e c onclusion upon these points a s I can myself. I do not distrust the intelligence of this Convention; I do not distrust the intelligence of the people; I on ly ask the gentlemen to reflect, to canvass this subject calmly and deliberately; I ask them to divest themselves of that feeling which seems to influence some in regard to popular rights, and not let their zeal be greater than their knowledge. I cont end that the interests of the people are better guarded by a judiciary which is removed from the political arena —which is removed from political excitements-than that judiciary which must necessarily be more or less affected by these causes. The State of Mississippi has been referred to as presenting an admirable system of the elective judiciary. I would not object to taking the example of the State of Mississippi on this point if I were familiar with the history of that State, but I will say that, ordinarily, I would as soon go to any other State in the Union, except, perhaps, South Carolina, as to Mississippi fbr instruction. The system may work admirably there for aught I know, but I prefer to confine my considerations to the State in which the question before us is most intimately concerned. It is with the judiciary of Louisiana that we are now concerned. I refer this Convention to the history of the elective judiciary in this State. I refer them to the history of the judiciary'system since this State has been organized. Let me premise by referring particularly to the reading of a clause in the constitution of I attempted, also, to'show ye sterd ay that the small vote which was uniformly cast in Louisiana for the judiciary, is an argument that the people do not place so high an appreciation upon their right to select their judges as the advocates of that system contend for. If each voter in the State of Louisiana felt the interest in this subject which he should feel, and which the advocates of the elective system contend he does feel, every one would turn out and cast his vote for the judgeship; but late experience informs us such is not the case. I contend from that fact that the people do not desire that this right shall be exercised by them. I contend from that fact that the people prefer to constitute a certain agency for 323' DEBATES IN THE COENTION FOR THE REVISION 1812 on this subject: "The Supreme Court, shall consist of no less than three judges, nor more than five, v, majority ot whom shall form a quorum," etc. Here, it may be remarked, that the constitution did not fix the specific number composing the court, but provided only the maximum and minimum numbers. It left open a door which, in my opinion, should have been kept closed. I refer to the door left open for legislative action. The judiciary, under that constitution, was organized in the beginning of 1813. From 1813 to 1846, (thirty-three years) with a life tenure and bench of three judges; to 1831. (eighteen years,) of four judges (for seven years,) to'38, and of five judges to'46, (eight years,) there were thirteen judges-average, one judge'to over two and a half years. From 1846 to 1853, (eight years,) a tenure of eight years and a bench of four judges, there were six judges-one judge to one and a half years. From 1853 to 1862, (nine years,) with a tenure of ten years, subject to removal every two years, and a bench of five judges, there were twelve judges in nine yearsone to every nine months. I direct attention to the relative instability of the two systems. From 1846 to 1853, a period of seven years, with a bench of four judges, there were six judges who occupied the bench. This gives one year and a halt to each one. As the system begun to be tampered with and changed, changes in the judiciary began to increase. From. 1853, when the elective judiciary went into operation, to 1862, when it was partially suspended, a period of nine years, with a tenure of ten years, and a bench of five judges, there were twelve judges-one to every nine months. That gives an idea of the practical working of thetwo systems. In the first period of our judicial history, we had five judges, in eighteen years, under the appointive system, before the Legislature began to tamper with the system. In the last nine years, under the elective system, we had twelve judges following each other in a succesion of every nine months. What is the necessary result, effect of this upon the jurisprudence of the State? There are n to two minds which lo ok a t the sa me state of fact s in the same light. You form a bench. They direct their attention to the principles of law which are to be applied by them to the cases brought before them. They soon establish and fix a regular system of jurisprudence. They establish principles which the public come to understand, and they can rely upon. When parties have differences to settle, they have-some principles upon. which they can rely, for they know that the jurisprudence of the State is based upon settled principles. Let that bench be ehanged by only one man, and you change the system of jurisprudence which was then existing, and thereby create an uncertainty which is instilled into the minds of the people and weaken the confidence of the people in the judiciary. They begin to look upon it as a matter of lottery, and not in the light in which the highest judicial tribunal of any State should be viewed. All parties who have their rights to be passed upon and determined, should have some confidence in the stability of the principles involved in the settlement of those rights. Your elective system will necessitate these changes, for it provides for a change every two years, in addition to the changes which the hand of nature may cause. Why is it these changes every two years are proposed? It is only because of the uncertainty as to the mutations of the principles which the people desire to prevent. It is because of the disposition of the representatives of the people to prevent stability. It is because of the popular dread which sometimes is presented of men holding office too long. That is an unsafe doctrine in the judiciary. It may apply well in the other departments of the government, but when you act upon the principle that the judiciary should not be permanent, you recognize the doctrine that the rights of the people are changeable-a doctrine which I contend is inconsistent with the truth, with the principles upon which human governments are based. I contend, Mr. President, that the great principles of right; the great principles upon' which all laws should be based, are unchangeable. There may be progresss in the mode of applying these principles, but 324 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 325. that there should be progress in the principles themselves, I contend is unnatural and contrary to reason. I adopt the doctrine enunciated by the gentleman from the Fourth District, that all laws are derived originally from a great divine source, and that the laws of man, though changeable, are necessarily based upon the principles which pervade a divine law. When you depart from that, you destroy the very basis of human rights and human liberty. I will not here attempt to carry this point further, but will now endeavor to direct my attention for a few moments particularly to some of the arguments against the appointed judiciary. It has been asserted-and I do not deny the truth of the assertion in the abstract — that all power is inherent with the people in a republican form of government. This is an axiom, and upon this axiom is based the fabric of our great government. It was an axiom, as stated by the gentleman from the Fourth District, our forefathers recog nized and enforced; but I think he was peculiarly unfortunate in referring to that doctrine and its application by our fore fathers themselves. What was the applica tion which they made of that doctrine on the subject of the judiciary? Did they say that the power was inherent in the people themselves to select the Federal judges-to select their president directly? Did they say the power was inherent in the people to select their senators to the Congress of the United States? Where, in any one in stance, was the practical application of that doctrine made consonant with the applica tion the gentleman has attempted to make of it? In but one that I call to mind now, the election of members to the House of Representatives. So, while our forefathers recognized that doctrine and made it the basis of the mighty structure which they erected, the applic ation t hey made of it coincided perfectly with the views which the committee have embodied in this re port-that while the people may have the right, and are the source of all political power, it is not always expedient or best that they shall exercise that power directly. I go to the next. It is asserted that the appointive judiciary is a species of montar chical despotism, and that it places too much power in the hands of one man. Mr. Presideit, I have a hallowed res pect for the memory, the intelligenc e a nd the p atriotism of our forefa i e thers. I believe, sir, they were s ta t es men. I believeri they appreciated the principles of a republican form of government. It is from that source that I have derived my views and knowledge of the principles of a republican form of government. I wish to go to no other source; but shall it be said that the y perpetuated a species o f monar chical despotism upo n the people of this country? Gentlemen. mistake; instead of being a species of monarchical despotism, it is, in my opinion, the palladium of the rights of the people. Say what you can about the writ of habeas cor pus, the trial by jury, and of the constitution, but without an independent, intelli gent and elevated judiciary, these rights are but light, and the constitution is but frail indeed. The judiciary stands as a conservative principle in this and all other governments. In a monarchical form of government, the conservative principle is exercised in behalf of the people against the crown; in a republican form of govern ment this principle stands between popular prejudice and individual rights. Instead of being a despotism, it is the protector of the people's rights, because the people feel secure if they can approach an independent, intelligent judiciary with perfect confidence that their rights will be maintained. They will feel that their rights are not dependent upon the caprices of the age or political changes. They have confidence in a judi ciary thus established, and there can be no taint, no shadow of the charge of monar chical despotism in an appointive judiciary. The governor is of the people, the senate is of the people, and they represent them in making their selection. It is committed to them because it is the most easy and feasible mode of making a propel selection. This includes the other charge that it is a curse to constitutional governments. That it places too much power in the hands of the governor can be refuted upon a moment's reflection, because upon a judi ciary appointed during good behavior, but one governor —at the time of the adoption~ I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION and upon the inauguration of that system has the power and opportunity of filling the whole bench. When he shall have filled the judiciary with its incumbents the bench is complete, and the next governor may not have to make a single judicial appoint ment. Where, then, is the dangerous power committed by this report to the executive of the State? He has, I admit, a most onerous and responsible duty resting upon him, but the people are not distrustful, as a general thing, of their officers. The gov ernor will be elected with reference to this very subject. The people will know that it may be that the governor they are to vote for will have to appoint the judges, that their rights are to be determined by those judges, and they will have the greatest induc eme nt t o make a judicious selection, to e lec t a discreet governor, if they remember t his. Th ey have, besides, a guarant e e that their senators will have a voice in this matter. For my p art, sir, I cannot see the application of remarks about "placing too much power in the hands of one man." It has f ail ed y et to strik e my mi nd wi th any terror or appr ehens ion, perhaps owing to my bluntness or my partial ity for t h e appointive system, and let me inform gentlemen that I recollec t t he time when this subject was first agitated in the Stat e of Louisiana. I have noticed well and carefully its origin, progress and results. I was as strong an advocate for the elective system, at first, as any gentleman upon this floor; and let me here say, that possibly I may be able to correct a doubt or error as to the position of some prominent men, whose names were mentioned here yesterday. Those men were at one time, sir, advocates for an elective system, but those very men, after this system was tried, changed their views. It was an -experiment, upon the trial of which they altered their sentiments, and I never condemn a man for honestly changing his opinion, however much I may differ from him. Mly first observations were directed to the manner of conducting elections for judges of the district and supreme courts. I there witnessed the contentions, the excitement between the parties on the part of the candidates; for I must confess that the candi date s di d no t wi th draw themse lves from the arena-did no t wi th hold t he mselves faom the polls, but mixed with the people, using the various means for se curing the ir elec ti on. Will it be conte nded that this is con sistent? I admit that it is wrong, and I contend t hat it is ineon sisten t wit h the dig - nit y o f the benc h. I sa y t ha t a ny system which presents such temptations -to men is wrong. It is an abuse, I admit, but it is one whic h is too fr equently resorted to and made use of. That men should not do so, we all say, but that men have done so, we must all admit. It mi ght be said, and I believe has been ass e rted here, that there will be fawning and cringing to the governor. If the gov - ernor be worthy of his position, when that is se en, such applicants will be hurled with contem pt from his presence. Let us not suspect all men! Let us not too eas ily sus pec t our own agents, but us let so guide our own actions as to a void all the te mptations and evils to wh ich these various s ystems are subject. It is asked, " Have the people no interest in this question?" "Are they to relinquish all right to it?" " Are they to take no part in it?" I answer th at the y have an interest in the selection of judges-the highest in - terest-and for the protection of those in terests I would remove the selection of judges as far from popular commotions a&# possible, for I have already said and believe that according to reason, the great interests of society are best subserved by such a course. I think it requires only a little reflection for any one to come to the same conclusion. It is not for the people's inter est to be always running to the polls to cast their votes. Many men prefer to leave the election of certain officers to deputies and authorized agents, selected in a proper way, while they devote their attention to their private business. Whatever may be the motive, the truth is, sir, that men, generally, do not desire to exercise so constantly and so universally the right of suffrage. Reference has been made to the debates .in the convention of 1787, in which was formed that model of human genius and wisdom, the constitution of the -United States; and the opinions expressed in that 326 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. right have the representatives from the parish of Morehouse, for instance, to appoint the judges for the parish of Orleans? The executive represents and is voted for by the whole people of the State. The Legislature is composed of men who represent different localities, and a majority of whom, consequently, have no direct interest in the selections they are called upon to make, except in the selection of a chief justice. The law directs that the State shall be divided into four districts, from each of which one of the associate judges shall be selected. Now, if the selection is left to the General Assembly the associate from one-fourth of the State is chosen by threefourths outside of that particular district. While the representatives of only onefourth are dil ectly interested in the selection of that judge, the right to make the selection is controlled by the other threefourths, who have not such direct interest in the matter. In that view, the appointment by the governor presents many advantages over the other system. The governor is elected by the people every four years, and is supposed to and does represent the whole people. In the selection of the judges for the inferior courts, he would be guided by the representation of the parishes which were interested in the appointment. The governor could not be expected to know personally the people of all the parishes, nor who was best qualified to fill the benches of the district courts, and hence he would necessarily be governed by the representatives of those districts, and in stead of having the judges for the country parishes selected by the representatives of New Orleans. they would be selected by the representatives of the parishes directly in terested in their selection. Another compromise is suggested, that is, that we shall adopt the elective system now and say to the people in the next breath you are not competent to elect now. We will adopt a constitution providing for an elective system, but the operation of that clause will be postponed to some indefinite period, to which we shall arrive two years after the restoration of peace. Mr. CAMPBELL -All the compromise I' have understood was, that I was willing to I beg gentlemen of this Convention that they will free their minds from the prejudice which attaches to the charge, that the advocates of th e appoi ntiv e sy stem denounce the common people as the common herd. They do themselves, as well as us and the people, great injustice by such a mode of argument. It is not necessary to a rational, elevated discussion upon this question to refer to these exclamations of detraction and abuse. Let us look at the subject as men. Let us reason upon it as men of intelligence; and, for myself, I heartily repel the accusation that we denounce the people as the common herd. It has be en sugg ested that there migh t be a compromise upon this subject, and that we might leave the selection of judges to the General Assembly. I hope gentlemen will reflect well upon the operation of this compromise. The General Assembly is composed of representatives of the different parishes of the State. Now, sir, what 327 ) convention have been presented here in advocacy of the elective system. The best answer, without argument, is that those opinions failed to convince the convention. However wise the men who uttered these sentiments, they failed to convince the members of that convention, and we have as the result of their labors a judiciary system which leaves the appointment of the judges to the president of the United States, with the advice and consent of the Senate and I hope, for the sake of the people of Louisiana, that however worthy, however intelligent and however wise the gentlemen who advocate the elective system, that they wili fail to convince this Convention that their s Istem should be adopted. I hope this because I feel an interest in the people. I claim to be one of the people, and I am, as an individual, possessed of as much regard for the rights of the people as any other man; because, if I deny the rights of the people I deny my own rights'. But, I am free to confess, that I do not believe their rights to be endangered by an appointive judiciary, but that in rush a system rests the surest guarantee of their safety and perpetuity. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Let us realize the momentous fact, that in the full glow of civilization, with the accu mulated experience of ages, with all the wealth of the past, we, foremost in the files of time, have been called to the exalted business of nation-making. Le + us bear in mind that in the work so boldly and wisely entered upon by the great and grand men of the past century and continued by their illustrious successors, some unsound mate rials were admitted into the structure, and t hat, a s master-builders, engaged with others, it is our task, in this apartment of the common edifice, to remove whatever is tainted with unsoundness and add that which is solid and enduring. Yes, sir, a nation is in process of comple tion, and all its parts must be fitly joined together, and the symmetry of the whole perfected. In one of the epochs of that process, the sword and the bayonet became necessar,y to clear away some obstructions, and the work here is now committed to our hands, and we owe it to the people, to humanity, to see that it is well done, and that from this Hall shall go forth the proc lamation to the world that Louisiana, recon structed, is an inseparable integral portion of this mighty nation, and the sure abiding place of the eternal principles of freedom and justice. Mr. ORR-Mr. President PRESIDENT-The debate is closed. It was the understanding that Mr. Howell was to close the debate. Mr. ORR-I had no such understanding, Mr. President, or I might have submitted a few remarks sooner. PRESIDENT-I believe it was the understanding yesterday, that Mr. Howell was to have the close of the debate. Mr. ABELL-There was no such, understanding. The only understanding was that Mr. SULLIVAN-.As the mover of the amendment, I had the right to close the debate. I delegate that right to Mr. Orr. Mr. TERRY-That is right. Mr. Sullivan offered the amendment under debate, and has the right to close. Mr. SuLLIVW.N —I do not delegate my right to close to Mr. Orr, but will reserve it. Mgr. ORR-~r. President, after the many have appointive judges fo r the Supreme Court only for the term of t en years. Mr. HOWELL Will a ny gent lem an inform m e wh en that will b e; w hether speedily or only after years of war? I trust i t w ill come speedily; but it is certainly a time indefinite and possibly re mote. And we shall present the strange incongruity of adopting a constitution with an elective system in it and at the same time denying the right of the people to execute it. These are war times, and it is impracticabl e and dang erou s to leave this matter to the people; but I say, Mr. Presi d ent, let us have a system that is practica ble now; a system that shall go into imme diate operation, and let the people be immediately supplied with a permanent system. This attempt to bl end the t wo systems and to adopt the one, and provide that it shall not go into operation, are strang e product ions whose results have never b e en observed; while the appointive system supp lies us with a permanent system which has long been tested-a system than wh ich the ablest mind s have never yet sug gested a superior. And, sir, I contend that this is practicable now, an d th at it is right now, to have the judiciary permanently established. Another element of discussion has been introducedwwhich I regret exceedingly. It is th e effor t to array the people-to create a prejudice between the pe ople a nd the legal profession. It is asserted that this is a contest between the people and the lawyers. There can be no difference of interest between the lawyers and the,people on this question. Are not the lawyers dependent on the people for their business and employment? And I should not be surprised to learn, that the very gentlemen themselves who are attempting to excite this prejudice, were the very first when they get into trouble to go to the lawyers for assistance. Will they not commit to these very lawyers all their rights of property and reputation? Such arguments are unworthy a deliberative body. Mr. President, let us be men, conscious of our own dignity and the true nature and magnitude of the work before us. Let us appreciate the progress and logic of events. 328 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 329 executive; the other aspirant a man of undoubted character, of superior legal attainment, of profound judgment —in fact, possessing all the ennobling virtues of manhood, but possessing no political influence, or who. perhaps, opposed the election of the executive —which is the most likely to receive the appointment? There can be but one answer: the politician would be appointed. Mr. Howell tells us that he hopes that Louisiana will never' elect any but an honest governor. I will ask the honorable gentleman if Thomas Overton Moore was an honest governor? If he was not elected by the people-thugs, know-nothings and United Americans included? If, in the past, a dishonest governor has been elected, what surety have we that such again will not be the case? And what kind of a judiciary might we have expected if their appointment had been left to Thomas Overton Moore, though Moore himself was not such a bad man, but he was not the governor? The government was really in the hands of Moise and two or three others. And John Slidell, with his immense wealth, it is well known, was in the habit, in days past, of corrupting our legislatures. Well, all the John Slidells are rot dd yet. We have others in the Stater yet-~e have other Moores, we have other Moises, .too, and what guarantee have we that these men will not some day fill the same position and be called upon to make these appointments of judges? Now, I contend that we have' no right to take away fr'om the people the right to e' ect their own judges. They have the right to elect every officer from the governor down to the very lowest. And it is the height of injustice to take from them this right and place it in hands where it is liable to be abused. The honorable member (Mr. Wenck) read Mr. Abell's tract, showing wherein he (Mr. Abell) stated to his constituents that he would advocate an appointive judiciary. It he (the gentleman) had read the con cluding clause of that tract, he would have informed the honorable members of this Convention that Mr. Abell also promised to advocate to increase the pay of police able remarks tha t ha ve been maoe upon the imp ortant ques tion —that of' the organization of the judiciary of t e this State-now before this Cnt i onvention, it may be presumptuous on my part to say aught; but deeming it to be the duty of every member of this body'to define his position upon questions of importance that may come before it, I shall not hesitate to perform what I consider to be my duty in the matter. In regard to this question of the judiciary lengthy arguments, containing strong and positive points, may and can be adduced on either side. Those who support the appointive side of the question will contend that an appointive judiciary will be more pure, honest and capable than the other. Now I would ask the advocates of this if the persons to whom may be delegated the appointive power are proof against corrupt influences? If a governor or a legislature, elected possibly by corrupt partisan influences, will seek out for appointment men of pure principles? or is it not more reasonable to suppose that the watchword of party, " to the victors belong the spoils," will be adopted, and the qualifications required will be the number of votes that have been cast in favor of the elected by the aspirant's friends? In regard to the possibility of rebels, copperheads, and thugs of that nature voting for judges, I would ask if it is not possible, aye even probable, that this same class of people would vote for governor or for the legislature? Mr. President, in my humble o pinion, the people of this State are fully as competent to elect judges as they are to elect a governor or any other office, of the government. Now, sir, if it is admitted that the people are competent to choose by ballot the law-making power, why not competent to choose the persons to administer these laws? Supposing, sir, that the appointive system is adopted, and for the position of supreme judge there comes before the executive the claims of two candidates for the position, one of them a man of limited legal knowledge and of principle of a questionable character, but possessing a political influence that has been successfully used in securing th# election of the 42 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION self-sacrifice, demands a judgeship. Now which, let me ask, is the worst, for a man to visit these places on his own account, or for another man? I say "let every tub stand on its own bottom," whether it is a whiskey tub or a tub of another kind. If it is necessary for men to make whiskey barrels of themselves in order to secure elections, let every man do his own portion of the work for himself and not saddle it upon another, and give him the power to reward by a fat office for a life-time with a large salary as a compensation for his self-sac rifice. We have a good illustration of the efficacy, uprightness and loyalty to the interests of the people, in the judiciary of South Carolina-that State that first trampled upon the flag of our fathers, the glorious emblem of that liberty which they bequeathed to us. There, in South Carolina, they have ever regarded the people as incompetent to elect their own judges. Gentlemen, do you wish to place the people of this State in the humiliating position that is contemplated by this appointive system? Shall the people of Louisiana go before the governor and the General Assembly, and on bended knees say to those gentlemen, "pray, dear sirs, hear our petitions, give ear, now, to our supplications, and appoint a judge to rule over us, for we are incompetent in and of ourselves to .choose one from among us to fill with becoming dignity that honorable and important position.?' Would you place the people of Louisiana in so humiliating a position before the civilized world? We consider ourselves capable, we consider ourselves competent, to elect our governor, our General Assembly, and our national Congress. We are capable, we are competent to elect our own judges. If we are not, we are not competent to elect the appointing power. Some gentlemen have argued that the qualifications required of a judge are almost superhuman; that a man must be endowed with powers almost godlike in order to be able to comprehend and expound the law. My answer to this is, that if the laws are 80 intricate and abstruse that it requires a superhuman intellect to unravel them, for men. Now, which class of his constituents elected him, the advocates of a n app ointiv e judiciary, or the police force, the advocates of increased pay? I will now touch up my friend. Mr. Howell, a little. He asks:' How many of the members of this Convention personally knew the can lidates for supreme judge for whom they hav e voted?" I answer the question by asking another. H ow m an y p ersonally knew the man they voted for for governor? a nd h ow ma ny will per so nally know heren after the me n they v ote f or for governor or for the le gislature? The same gentleman says that the interests of the people are no better subserved by an appointive than by an elective judiciary. I contend that their interests are better subserved by an elective than by an appointive system. He tells us that a governor elected for a term of four years may not have the appointment of a single judge, while, accordin,, to the gentlemanis own figures, the next may appoint a half dozen. He refers to instances where the candidates were at the polls mixing with the people. Is there any harm in that? Is it such a sin for the candidates for the supreme bench to mix with the people, whose servants they are, and whose interests they are elected to subserve? And for this cause, because candidates, if the office is elective and not appointive. will mix with the people, he would remove their selection for the position as far as possible from the people. There has been a good deal said about judges and candidates for judgeships who would, if the position was elective, visit all kinds of grogshops and resorts of loafers and vagabonds for the sake of securing votes. Admit. for the sake of argument, that this is true, that they will do it, and I shall hold that the matter is not mended by appointing the judges. For instance, my friend, Smith, is a candidate for governor; his friend, Jones. in order to secure his (Smith's) election, is in the habit of going around to these miserable hells, groceries, beershops, and burning his inwards with bad whiskey to make votes for Smith. Smith is elected. Jones. as a reward for his l 330 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 331 God's sake, and for the sake of the people who are legally bound to understand them ta or take the legal consequences, repeal them, and the sooner it is done the better, and let. us adopt laws so plain that the wayfaring man, though a fool, need not err therein, and that he who runs may read them. Mr. MORRTS-Mr. President, I have not consumed the time of this honorable body, in any instance as yet, but, sir, the subject of the judiciary as reported by the able committee, and amendments offered, is of the present and succeeding, and as I conceive of articles of grave importance, and should be well considered before we say to the people, - in the organic law, that we shall submit to them that are not competent to elect their judicial officers; and with all due deference to the wisdom, talent, learn ing and experience of the committee, I most respectfully differ as to the mode of choos ing our judicial officers. Therefore, Mr. President, I desire to make some brief statements why I am in favor of an elective judiciary, and opposed to an appointing power. We are a people occupying a portion of the earth, wish a government of our own choosing, in which the people is the source of all power. ment than all the conventions of the sister States of the t wenty-four years past? I think not. Or, are we, as a pe ople inha biting the State that encircles the mouth of the great river Mississippi, so steeped in degradation that we are not qualified to step tip to the bal l ot b ox, the very palladium of libertyw under all circumstances, and there cast our voice?f If so, may the All-wise Creat o r of the Universe bring about a renovation, and may we be enabled to6 s hake off this lethargyef de g eneration, and come forth as becomes citizens of a free, indepe nde nt and republican government, honest in our inte nti ons, upright in o ur p urp oses. We have a republican government by name, let us have one in essence. M r. Presi dent, in th is enlightened age- in this, the latte r part of the -nineteeth cen tsry, while the discoveri es a nd s ciences are developing' and progressing —must we ac knowledge and believe that man is retro grading-that we are unqualified to perform the duties to-day that we have heretofore performied? Sir, I cannot come to such conclusions. Mr. President, the right, uipon which we stand is the right of opinion. God gives to ius the power to form opinions. and the organic or constitutional law of our State should secure to its the right to act upon those opinions; and the conititiition of the State should be so formed as to confer upon every citizen their independent and intelligent action upon all matters apper taiiing to their interest. And for such rights, Mr. President, I shall: ever contend while I have the honor to represent my constituents. Therefore I shall not vote for any provisions, clause or clauses in a con stitution that deprives its of such high prerogatives as the selection of the officers in a judicial or any other capacity that are to preside over us. I am opposed to the creature being above its creator. Mr. President, with all the lights of the present day befbre uts, 1, for one, fear not to trust the people. If they are true i to themselves, they will elect good and in |telligent officers to preside over their in terest, rights and destinies; if they do la0,~ It is a government which springs directly from the people, republican in its nature, in which the interest, rights, opinions and commands of the people should not only constitute the guiding but the original power, and no man who is a member of this social compact, be his position ever so humble, should be deprived of the high privilege of participating in the selection of the officers that are to adjudge and decree upon hi s r ights and destinies in our municipal corporations as States. Mr. President, all the States that have framed or revised constitutions since the year 1840, within my knowledge, have pro vided for an elective judiciary. Municipal ideas having become more gen erally diffused throughout the more civ ilized portions of the world, the people, the mass are beginning to feel their might and to claim their right. Now, Mr. Presi dent, will this Convention conceive to itself more wisdom on the judiciary depart I i DEBATES IN THE-CONVENTION FOR THE'REVISION he burden is upon their own shoulders, possession ot some of the original elements and they will remedy the evil when the of power. opportunity comes. Though undoubtedly there are always to Our government being a democracy, we be found, in democratic and republican should have the right left to the voice of'government as in the social circle, a certain the people to elect all the officers, in the class to whom the condition of equality is judicial or any other department, so far as irksome-men in whom the desire of supe pertains to our State institutions. riority is strong while the sentiment of be Mr. President, should this Convention nevolence is weak-however they may be hand over to the people a constitution for possessed with an over-weaning idea of their adoption, with a retrogade step in it, own wisdom and virtue and their opinions abridging their rights in the elective fran- of others probably not so favorable. But chise, sir, it will be rejected by them; and a great many men of superior capacity, we, as a deliberative body, held up to pub- when they chance to live under a popular lie gaze as men behind the age in which we form of government, are very generally live, who had given birth to an illegitimate the greatest admirers and warmest support issue, that a republican people would not ers of those popular forms, for the obvious recognize. reason that those forms, and those forms Mr. President, we should recollect, the alone, open a high road to merit and talent. constitution framed by the wisdom of this At the present time we have a bright ex honorable body has to run the race over ample in the chief executive of th United the track of adoption and rejection, and if States. we encumber it with too much dead weight, It is not such men who are filled with with the numerous ridlers that we have fears lest the people should fall under the already mounted in the legislative depart- exclusive control of mere flattering demament, rejection will come out first, and, sir, gogues. we will be where we commenced, with the Though they may never have investigapublic purse minus from $100,000 to $200,- ted the subject scientifically, and may 000. therefore be unable clearly to state how Mr. President, with all due respect to they know it, yet they know well that adthis honorable body, it appears to me, that miration is the true basis of political infiuone among the first things we did was to at- ence, and they know, too, that in order to tend to our own interest. Secondly, that we excite admiration there must be an actual intend attending to the interest of the or apparent superiority of some sort or office-holders. Well, Mr. President, the other, the place of which all the demapeople will have the consolation of in- gogues in tlhe'world can never supply. creased taxation. If that satisfies them, it It is the fundamental idea of Ronsseau's will all be right. famous essay on the social contract that there Mr. President. we should, as a people, exists in the numerical majority of the peoacknowledge no original source of inequal- ple an exclusive right to control the ity and primary element of power, or in- community, so mucih so that they regard equality of sagacity. the democratic form alone legitimate and With the vast majority of persons the all other governments as mere usurpations. sentiment of self-comparison is sufficiently The majority have the right to appoint satisfied by being allowed an equal right and select their agents that they desire to with others. carry on the government. Every good citizen, whether good by na- Mr. FOLEY —Mr. President, I move to adture or good by education, like all benevo- journ. lent men, is content with acknowledged [The motion was lost by a rising vote — and admitted equality politically, and he ayes 21, noes 33.] does not ask any exclusive right of speak- Mr. CAZABiTr —Mr. President, as there ing and deciding for the rest of his fellow- seems to be no qiioraim, I move a call of beings, but relies on his own personal the House. 332 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. [The roll was called and only 73 mem- an amendment, and was choked off by the bers answered to their names.] chair, I vote no. PRESIDENT The sergeant-at-arms will PRESIDENT-I wish to state to those whose lbring in absent members. votes have been influenced bv the action of Mr. FOLEy —Mr. President. I move to ad- the chair, that parliamentary rules must be journ. enforced, or there will be no end to amend Mr. TERRY —I call the ayes and noes. ments. There have been three amendments [The call was sustained, and the roll and one substitute, all acted on in their called with the following result-ayes 30, regular order, and voted down, until now noes 33. we come back to the original report. If The motion was lost. gentlemen fail in their duty in this respect, After half an hour's delay a sufficient and keep back their amendments until it is number of members to constitute a quorum too late to offer them, they cannot expect was brought in by the sergeant-at-arms. the chair to fail in his duties because they The question on the adoption of the sub- have in theirs. stitute of Mr. Sullivan for the third article Mr. ORR —I am opposed to an aristocratic of the report of the Committee on the Judi- judiciary; judges-[cries of out of order! ciary was put and lost.] Vote! vote!]-with aristocratic salaries of PRESIDENT - The question now recurs ten thousand dollars a year. I vote no. upon the third article of the report. Mr. SMITH —I am in favor of the salary, Mr. MoNTA.MArT-Mr. President, I have an but not of the appointive system. I vote amendment to offer. 110no. PRESIDENT-YOU are too late. Amend- Mr. STOCKER —I am opposed to the whole ments are not in order. article. I want the people to have the Mr. MONTAMAT —-I merely wish to anend — power of making the judges. I therefore PRES)IDENT —You are out of order. The vote no. question is on the adoption of article 3 of Mr. SULLVA.1AN —As I am opposed to the the report of the Committee on the Judi- monarchical principle of the bill, I vote no. ciary. Mr. WENcK —AS I am in favor of an inde Mr. ABE.LL —-Mr. President, I do not see pendent judiciary, with good salaries, I vote how it is that amendments are not in order yes. now [The following is the result of the vote — [The yeas and nays were called and the ayes 30, noes 46.] secretary proceeded to call the roll.] Mr. FOLIEY —I move to adjourn. Mr. PURSELL-I rise to explain my vote. [The motion was carried.] I considered that Mr. Montamat's amend- inent was in order until the last moment. EDNESDAY June 1 14. WEDNEx'SDAY, June I,, 1864. I vote no. Mr.I vote am in favoro[The Convention met pursuant to ad Mr. BEuL, —-I am in favor of the first two journment. The roll was called by the lines, but not of the salary, consequently I jourment. The roll was called by the shallvot~e n o.!secretary, and the following members anshall vote no. swered to their names:] Mr. FLOOI) —I don't vote for the ten thou- Messrs. Ariil, Austin, Bach, Baum, Bar Messrs.! Ariail, Austin, Balch, Baum, Barsand dollars, but I vote for all the balance. rett, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook J. K., Mr. FOLEY-I am opposed to paying any Collin, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Flagg, Flood, Fuller, Geier, Goldman. Gorjudge a higher salary than the governor re- linki Grneberg Heal eard. Hills linski, Gruneberg, Healy, Heard,'Hills, ceives. I vote no. Howell, Howes, Mann, Montamat, Newell, Mr. HIIAs —Mlr. President, I am in favor Normand, O'Conner, Pintado, Poynot, Pur sell S., Schroeder, Schniurr, Shaw, Spellicy, of the article as reported, but as I believe e Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Wells and that gentlemen have a right to offer amend- Mr. President-44. ments to it, I vote no. [There being no quorum present, the ser Mr. MONTAMAT-I am in favor of an ap- geant-a-arms was directed to procure the pointive judiciary, but as I wanted to offer attendance of absent members. 333 DEBATES IN THE CONTENTION FOR THE REVISION NAYS - Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Barrett, Beauvais, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Fish, Flagg, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, Hart, Heard, Maas, Mann, Meyer, Montamat. Mor ris, Newell, Ong, Pintado, Purcell J., Pur sell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Waters,Wells —39. [It was stated there was no quorum voting, and a call of the House demanded, upon which the roll was called and seventy seven gentlemen responded. Mr. PURSELL-I offer an amendment, in serting after the word " be," in the second line, -the words " increased or.' [Accepted. ~ The article as amended was then adopted. The following articles were separately read, and adopted as reported:] Art. 4. The, Supreme Court shall hold its sessions in New Orleans from the first Mon- ay of the month of November to the end of the month of June, inclusive. The Le gislature shall have power to fix the sessions elsewhere during the rest of the year; until otherwise provided, the sessions shall be held as heretofore. Art. 5. The Supreme Court and each of the judges thereof shall have power to issue writs of habeas corpus, at the instance of all persons in actual custody under process, in all cases in whic h they may have appellate jurisdiction. Art. 6. No judgment shall b e rendered by the Supreme Court without the concurrence of a majority of othe judges om prising the court. Whenever the majority cannot agree, in cons equence of the recusation of any member or members of the court, the judges not recused shall have power to call upon any judge or judges of the inferior courts, whose duty it shall be, when so called upon, to sit in the place of the judge or judges recused, and to aid in determining the case. Art. 7. All judges, by vi rtue of their ofIfile, shall be conservators of the peace throughout the State. The style of all process shall be " the State of Louisiana." All prosecutions shall be carried on in the name and by the authority of the State of Louisiana, and conclude against the peace and dignity of the same. Art. 8. The judges of all courts within the State shall, as often as it may be possible so to do, in every definitive judgment refer to the particular law in virtue of which such judgment may be rendered, and in all cases adduce the reasons on which their judgment is founded. [Article 9 was read: ] Art. 9. The judges of all courts shall be Af ter some delay the following gentl emen entered an d took their seats: Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Belauvas, Bell, Bofill, Brott, Bromley, Crozat, Cutler, Dua ne, F ish, Fo ley, Fosdick, Gastinel, H art, Henderson, Hire, Kavanagh, Maas, Mayer, Mendiverri, Morris, Murphy M. W., Ong, Orr, Purcell J., Smith, Stocker, Terry, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wilson —33. The president announced t hat a quorum was present. T he m in utes we re read and after some slight corrections adopted. Under the resolution of yes terday, the order of the day was taken up and a rt icle 4 of the judiciary report read. Mr. Stock er moved to reconsider the vote of yesterday rejecting ar ticle 3; but he having voted in the minori ty it was ruled not in order.] Mr. MONTAMA.T —-I move to reconsider that vote. I voted in the majority. [The motion was carried.] Mr. MONTAMAT-I wish to offer the following amendment to article 3: "Seven thousand five hundred dollars," instead of " ten thousand dollars," as the salary of the chief justice, and " seven thousand dollars," instead of "nine thousand dollars," as the salary per annum of the associate justices. Mr. ABELL —I move to amend by striking out $7500 and inserting $10,000. Mr. STINER-I move to amend by striking out $7500 and substituting $8000. [On motion, the last amendment was laid on the table. Mr. Abell withdrew his amendment.] Mr. THORPE-I offer as an amendment: "The salaries of all the judges shall be fixed by the Legislature." Mr. MON.TAMAT-I move to lay it on the table. [Carried —yeas 33, nays 31. The original amendment was then read.] Mr. HrLLS —I move to lay it on the table. [The roll was called and the motion lost.] YEAS —MIessrs. Abell, Balch. Baum, Bailey, Bromley, Brott, Collin, Cook J. K., Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gorlinski, Healy, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Poynot, Schroeder, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Terry, Thorpe, Wenck, Wilson-36. 334 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 335 shall not be increased. The judges of the Supreme Court of the United States stand precisely on the ground taken by the re port, that the salaries shall not be dimin ished. If the matter is left as reported, the judges cannot get more unless by the action of the Legislature. The men composing that body come directly from the people, and, certainly, never will increase the sal aries af the judges unless it was necessary. If there be a necessity for it, I think we should leave the door open to allow them to comply with the necessity. For these reasons I hope the amendment will be rejected. Mr. HENDERSON-The report says the sal aries of the judges shall not be diminished, and the amendment of Mr. Pursell provides that they shall neither be increased nor di minished during the time they hold their offices. I think the subject should be left to the Lcgislature. Therefore, the report of the committee that the salaries shall not be diminished, is the proper way. The consti tution of the United States is a good prece dent. The chief justice and the associate justices of the Supreme Court of the United States have had their salaries increased within a few years, because the sum they had previously received was not sufficient under a different state of things. The du ties of the judiciary are very important, and provision should be made for their ade quate compensation under all circum stances. Mr. HOwEi. —I wish to state to the gen t leman who moved the amendment, that it may operate unjustly to the public. Sup pose the Legislature should find it necessary to lessen the number of justices, and in crease the extent of their territory as has been done. Their labors are increased, and consequently their salaries should be in creased. It was done within the last five years-iin 1861, I think. The report con templates that the Legislature shall fix the salaries of the district judges throughout the State. If, at any time, the interests of the country should demand that the number of judicial districts be lessened, and the labor of the judges increased, it would be just in such a contingency to increase their sala ries. and for that reason I think the report liable to impeachment; but for any reasonable cause, which shall not be sufficient ground for impeachment, the governor shall remove any of them, on the address of three-fourths of the members present in each House of the General Assembly. In every such case the cause or causes for which such removal may be required shall be stated at leng th in the address, and inserted in th e journal of each House. Mr. CAMPBELL —I move to strike out "-tw o-thirds " and insert " a majority." Mr. CAZABAT —i move to lay it on the table. [Lost, a nd the amendment adopted.] Mr. STOClKER-I move t o amend by strikin g out the words " present in " and inserting " elected to."' [T he amendment was carried and the ar tic le adopted s as amended. Article 10 was read: ] Art. 10. The judges both of the supreme and inferior courts shall, at stated timest receive a salary which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office; and they are prohibited from receiving any fees of office or other compensation than their salaries for any civil duties performed by them., Mr. S. PURSELL-I wish to amend by making the second line read, " which shall not be increased nor diminished," etc. [A motion to lay the amendment on the table was lost-yeas 18, nays 46.] Mr. ABELL-I know of no precedent that absolutely fixes in the (constitution the salary of the judges; but it has generally been incorporated that it shall not be diminished during the term of office. I trust the Convention will leave this matter to the discretion of the Legislature, so far as increasing the salaries is concerned. It is manifest that the judges should receive an ample salary, though as to the exact amount,.there is a diversity of opinion; but, surely, all will agree that there should be an aqlple salary given to the judges. If we should leave this entirely to the caprice of the Legislature, they might reduce it in order to drive the judges from the bench. The currency of the country is becoming depreciated, and it may go so low as to render it impossible to get judges on the bench if the amendment is adopted. It seems to me that it would be improper in us to say that the salaries of the judges DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION y Bromley, Brott, Buckley, Campbell, Collin, f Cook J. K., Cook, T., Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Edwards, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, ] Hart, Henderson, Healy, Hills, Howes, M, Maas, Mann, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, 1 Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Orr, Pintado, Pursell S., Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, t Stauffer, Stiner, Sullivan, Terry-45. t [fr. Montamat withdrew his amendment, with the consent of the member second ming it.] Mr. GRUNEBERG —I move to amend the substitute by striking out "They shall have power to appoint their own clerks." [The amendment was accepted. On the motion to adopt the substitute, the roll was called, and the substitute re) jected by the following vote:] r YEAS-Messrs. Bell, Buckley. Campbell, t Cook T., Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Flagg, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gruneberg, . Howes, Mayer, Morris, O'Conner, Orr, Poy not, Sullivan, Schnirr, Smith, Stocker, Stauffer, Terry —24. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bar rett, Balch, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Brott, Burke, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Collin, Crozat, Cutler, Duaue, Edwards, Fish, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Faller, Gor linski, Hart, Healy, Heard, Hills, Howell, Henderson, Hire, Howell, Maas, Mendiverri Mann, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, Ong, Pintado, Purcell J., Pursell S., Shaw, Seymour, Spellicy, Stumpf, Stiner, Thorpe, Waters, Wells, Wenck, Wilson -53. [Mr. Sullivan's amendment was then taken up, and the yeas and nays being or dered thereon, resulted as follows:] ~ YEAS-Messrs. Bell. Buckley, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Decker, Duke, Flagg, Flood, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Howes, Maas, O'Conner, Orr, Poynot, Pursell S., Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry —26. NAYS —-Messrs. Abell, Ariail,Austin, Balch, Barrett, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bromley, Bofill, Brott. Burke, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Fish, Fosdick, Foley, Fuller, Gastinel, Hart, Healy, Hills, Heard, Henderson, Hire, Howell, 3,aas, Mann, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, gl/ur phy M. W., Newell, Normand, Ong, Pintado, Purcell J., Schnurr. Shaw, Stiner, Seymour. Stumpf,. Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-51. [Consequently the amendment was re jected.] M.,r. SHAW-I have an amendment which I wish to offer; striking out all after the word "Senate." and inserting, "The judges is correct, and that the amendment ma operate to po the prejudice of the people o the State. [The amendment was then put and lost. Mr. MONTicl.T-I offer as an a mend ment that the judges of the inferior courts shall receive a salary of $5000 per annum. Mcr. STOCKER I consider the amendment entirely out of ord er. In re jecting th e last amendment we have virtually said that the salaries may be increased. If we adopt the amendment of the gentleman, we go back to the question just put. PRESIDENT —Will the gentleman permit me to make a remark. The constitution provides for - the existence of the supreme court. The Legislature may see fit not to have district courts, and may call for other courts; therefore the amendment is not necessary. Mr. MONTAMAT-If that is the case I withdraw my amendment. [Article 10 was then adopted. Article 11 was read, and the substitute and amendment: ] Art. 11. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts. shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and they shall hold their offices during good behavior. [Mr. Stauffer's substitute:] The judges of the supreme court shall be elected by joint vote of the General Assembly, and for a term of ten years. They shall have power to appoint their own clerks. [Mr. Montamat's amendment:] Art. 11. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, for the term of eight years. And it shall be the duty of the governor, at the end of each term, to submit to the Senate the names of the occupants to be continued in office or rejected. Mr. CAZABAT-I move to lay the substitute and amendment on the table. [The rol'l was called, and the motion lost: ] YEAS -- Messrs. Ariail, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Burke, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Duane, Fish, Flagg, Fuller, Geier, Heard, Hire, Howell, Mayer, Newell, Normand, Ong, Poynot, Purcell J., Schnurr, Seymour? Stumpf, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —31. NAYs —Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Bell, 396 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. of the Supreme Court shall hold the.ir offiees during a term of six years, and those of the district courts during a term of four years.". Mr. HILLS —I rise to say a word in favor of the amendment. I have not taken any part in the discussion of this important question thus far, because I preferred to leave it to those who had a better understanding of it than I felt I possessed. From the first I have been in favor of the system of appointment, for I have seen what seems to me to be very great and serious evils arise from the system of elected judges. At the same time I believe there should be a limit to the term for which the judges are appointed. One gentleman has remarked in his very able argument on this subject, that all we can do is to provide, as far as possible, against the evils which will necessarily arise from all human institutions, which are imperfect in their very nature. While I believe that the appointive system is far superior to the elective, at the same time the system of appointment is also subject to imperfections, and under it we are liable to have bad and incompetent men placed on the bench, and I believe in having a remedy by which they can be removed. I think the proposition of the gentleman pro vides for such a contingency. If we have a bad judge, we do not want him saddled on the people for life, nor to go through the tedious process of impeachment. which fre quently fails; when, if justice was done, the judge would be impeached. Therefore, 1 say, fix a limit to his term of office. I would agree and preferred to have made it eight years, and had prepared an amendment, but I'am ready, nevertheless, to support the proposition, and limit the term of the judges, of the Supreme Court to six years, and of the inferior courts to four years, and hope it will prevail. Mr. SHAW-I wish to say the amendment has nothing to do with the manner of choos ing the judges; but only limits the term of their office. Mr. ABELL —Is this debatable? [Question. question.] Gentlemen, you have been skir mishing in this matter for some time, but this is where the battle comes in. This is the main battle; now mark what I tell 43 you — [cries of question, question —-don't debate it.] I hope gentlemen will not pass upon this question without considering it well. A little time spent here would be better spent perhaps than anywhere else. It involves more than everything else that is to follow it, except, perhaps, the public school system, and I will, with the consent of the Convent ion, make a f ew mo re arguments against the proposition of the gentlemant from the Fourth District, (Mr. Shaw,) and that of the gentleman from the Second, (Mir. Hills,) because these propositions, it adopted, will at once strike down all that stability and all that, certainty which has ever been the boast and will ever be the boast of countries that have a permanent and independent judiciary. WVe have reduced the matter to a very narrow point. The question now is upon the length of time that judges shall hold their offices, fbo if the action of this body yesterday is any criterion of its future action, the judges are to be appointed,-for we yesterday twice so decided. -All'. STrOCKEIRI cCall the gentleman to order. That question has not been decided. PlIEsIlI)k,;r —He is in order. Mir. A,E,IrL-That question, as I said, has twice been decided by the vote on Sul livan's amendments, and another vote equally important taken yesterday. That question being decided, f,orces the issue. as we say in the common law, by bringing the question down to it single- point:' What shall be the tenure by which our judges are to hold their offices')' I say that this Con vention decided yesterday, by an over whelmin, vote. that the elective system is laid upon the table. It is therefore settled that we are to have an appointive judiciary, and thi only question is sitnply that of the tenure or the office appointive, as we have decided to make it. And bootlh these amend ments are designed to make the tenure short; the one is better: than tie other only a, it makes the tenure longer. r.X1'.Sroe. g.... The qle~stion is simply upOat the term, not the tenure. I'RESIDSNT-The gentleman is in orders and must not be interrupted. her. STOCKER 1 appeal from the''decbion of the chair. I 337 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOPR THE REVISION acter, to hold office during good behavior, with salaries never to be less than eighty dollars per month, and removable only by charges preferred before a committee, to be appointed by the executive for the purpose, subject to aIi appeal to the Board of Aldermen; when discharged never again to be eligible, and with suitable provisions for those who may be disabled in the faithful discharge of their duties. The safety and credit of this city and justice to a faithfid officer demand greater certainty than now exist. MIr. ABELI.-The term I have understood to be the tenure, and that I understand now upon these amendments to be the question involved. One gives a little longer tenure than the other, but otherwise there is no difference between that of the gentleman fiom the Fourth District, [Mr. Shaw,] and that of my friend from the Second, [Mr. Hills.] It is simply a question of policy, whether you adopt one or the other. You will find, gentlemen, that the article as presented by the majority of the committee, the judges, both Supreme and inferior courts, shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and shall hold their offices during good behavior. This is the tenure proposed by the original article, as reported by the commi ttee. That is the tenure that I have contended f or, from th e commencement of this discussion. And, sir, a s I will show to gentlemen on this floor, it is the ten ur e that I cont ende d for long before the assembling of t his C onvention. I wi sh to s how you, gentl emen, that t t is no t only during th e sessions of this Convention that I have publicly advocated this tenure, but that before that time I advocated those principles before the people, and that they were ratified in my election by the largest vote, perhaps of any individual in the parish of Orleans. I was elected, sir, by a larger majority than the gentlemen on the same ticket with me, and my views upon the judiciary thereby tully ratified; and when I read from the card I circulated among the voters of the Fifth District before the election, you will say whether this is with me a newfangled idea or not: If elected, I would favor a judiciary appointed by the executive, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to hold office during good behavior, with ample salaries. and removable by impeachment only. M;r. TERRY-Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question? ,r. ABELLT-Certainly. Mr. TERRY-Will he readea little further on his " circular?"'? Mr. ABELL-Certainly, I will; but it has nothing to do with the question. [Reads:] I will advocate srenuoulsly a permanent police organization tbr this metropolis, to con1sist of permanent citizens, of good char Mr. Tml,IY —That is not the portion to which I referred. I had reference to that portion relatiug to making the term of of feice of the governor six years, and the elec tion of the present incumbent by the Cotn vention. I did not refer to the police. Mr. Fo:LY —He's right on that. ciMr. ABELS-I have no objection to that portion of the circular, but it has nothing to do with the question. The gentleman need not be alarmed; I'll give him a touch in a mlimnute. I presented these views to the people; they knew that these were my principles, and they ratified them by an overwhelming vote. I was not a member of this Judiciary Committee. I had nothing to do with it; was not consulted by the committee who presented it, but it meets my views of the subject perfectly and to the fuillest extent. It is certainly most desirable, on account of the grand futhue before our State, that the uttmost certainty shonld be attached to our judiciary system. Olur position is such that we mist eventually become one of the greatest and grandest States of this Union, .and our judiciary should be in keeping with our progress. But what will be the effect of these amendments? We have from time to time discussed the great misfortune of the election of the judges. I think that the experience of the State has been that an elective judiciary has proved a failure and a disgrace to the State from the time of its inauguration utip to the present day. Search the records and you will find the proofs of what I say, that it has proved a disgrace to the State. You will tind that they never made any decisions of great principles, they never evinced any signs of progress forward, or gave any evidence of that improvement attainable by experience. Wvhy 338 I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. The first year or two perhaps these judges, so appointed, may not evince any striking evidences of superiority; but in a few years they will have marched forward, and will stand in the foremost ranks of ad vancement in legal science, though they may not, at the date of their appointment, heave been particularly distinguished either as lawyers or jurists. Though they may never have shown any extraordinary degree of ability, they will overcome every obsta cle, and, if they be only good, respectable men, the y will become gr eat, because their minds will be free from everything else, and they will l ook only to the glory and honor of the people. It is argued th at men holding for- life terms will become corrupt. The argument is bad. True, there ma ybe corrupt men on the ben ch, b the th e posi tion i s not one that h as a te ndency to corrupt m e n; on the contrary, all its influences are elevating. The very fact of investigating and defining the great principles on which society is based and which governs the relations of man with his fellow man, is one of the most ennobling and elevating that the human mind can conceive. The mind of the judge is elevated and he becomes great in spite of himself. These are some of the effects of appointments for life terms, and. they are effects which have a most powerful influence, not merely in that single though most important branch of the government, the judiciary, but which, by its influence upon the other departments of the government and upon the interests of society in general, tend greatly more than almost anything else to the honor, dignity and stability of a free government. What is the history, Mr. President? I must be indulged, for now we have the battle to fight, and upon it depends the fate, the honor, the dignity and the prosperity of one of the greatest of States. Sir, if legislation be favorable to Louisiana, her future will be great and grand, beyond comparison. Placed as she is, near the mouth of one of the largest rivers in the world, where the commerce of the whole South and West will pour untold wealth into her lap, with facilities for communicating by means of mnmerous rivers and bayous with is this' What reason can you assign for it? Sir, the reason is manifest. They had no certainty of remaining in office more than a single term. They had not that incentive to mak e themselves thorough and superior in their positions, and the time for which they were electe d was not suffici ent for it had they all the incentive that coul d be placed before the m ind of men anxi ous to become celebrated in their position. S how me an instance w here a judge, wi thin the las t twenty years-since the elec tiv e system was ad opted in Louisiana that has made his mark. Not a solitary instance can you point out. No solitary .judge ha s l eft that mark that is attainable, and will b e att ainable, and will present itself so soon as you shall have established the judiciary upon correct principles.. To reach this result the judiciary must not only be established on the appointive system, but the tenure must not be uncertain. No sooner than a man is appointed a judge with a life tenure than all the power of the gov ernor over him is expended and he stands, with regard to the judge, as one of the most humble persons. His power is expended in making the appointment. He cannot remove. and the judge having nothing to fear from the authority of the appointing power, or the caprice of the people, st,.nds independent in his sphere, with nothing in the way of his advancement to the highest pinnacle of glory which is attainable by application during a long, uninterrupted and independent career. After he is once appointed by the gover-. nor he is not necessarily looking forward to the end of his term of four years and devising ways and means to secure an appointment for another term. He is in fact as for removed from the governor as from the humblest individual in the State. He meets none of those hindrances to progress and advancement that beset the path of the judge elected or appointed for a short term. Gentlemen, I ass you to look at this matter for your own good, and for the good of your constituents, and say whether it is not better to avoid the evils of an elective system and of short term appointments, and to secure an independent judiciary by appointing your judges for life? 31,19 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION an immense and incomparably fertile terri- adopt either of the amendments proposed tory, her commerce will he the wonder of we shall not give him half the chances for the world, and her prosperity, populousness improvement that we give a common clerand advancement will place her chief city gyman. in a position second to ]but one city in the These decisions of which I have just spoken were not given bv judges of three,. four, or ten years standing. They held their positions during the life of the king, and this wa s a mighty step in advance of the earlier custom to make them removable at the king's pleasure. It was not, however, customary to remove them under this system at the death of the king. They were generally recommissioned, though this was not always done; and it was not until the time of George III that the appointments were made during good behavior, and from this time instead of having a new judge every two or three years we find some illustrious instances of long terms. Mansfieldi,repmained in the office thirtytwo years; Kenyon fourteen; and the result ofthis system is seen in an unbroken current of great and impartial decisions that have come down to its —a series of juidicial decisions unsurpassed in the world's history for their clearness and their impartial justice. nation. Now, Mr. President, in view of these important faets, I ask: Have we a right to trifle for a single moment with this great subject? Shall we stand here and say that we will take tip this amendment, that amendment, merely to trifle with the rsub- ject? I look not merely at what any man is to do or what is to be said concerning our action, but in the action I take I look to the great filture of Louisiana. And as I was going on to say, nothing but corrupt and had legislation can prevent Louisiana attaining a great, glorious and grand position in this government. If we review the history of the judiciary during several past centuries, we find that where there has been a permanent judiciary there has been a series of the most illustrious decisions. From the time of Edward I, of Great Britain, for about four ce(nturies, though there are hundreds of instances of the most illustrious decisions, yet from the fact that the judges were removable at the pleasure of the king, that stability and greatness which appeared at a liter day was wanting. Why is this, unless it is because the position of the judge was not fixed. H-e could be removed at the pleasure of a capricious sovereign, and the position was not worth having. Sir, during the time of the arbitrary reign of the Stuarts, excepting during the existence of the Commonwealth, there was a new chief justice appointed every two years — eleven chief justices in twenty-two years. But, sir, since the time of William and Mary, there has been a current of judicial decisions, unsurpassed for the learning and the justice with which they expound the l,ws. Why is this? It is plainly because the tenure of the office enables the judges to dig to the very depths of legal science a,nd learning, and to acquire that eminence, and clear, ready comprehension that is only to be acquired by a long experience on the bench. It requires years of experience to fit a judge for his position, and yet if' we Look for a moment. gentlemen, at the Supreme Court of the United States. Is that court composed of judges elected or appointed for terms of two. four, six or ten rears? You all know that the judiges hold tlhiyr offices during good behavior; and I assert that our worthy president. as one of the inembers of the federal bench, is as independent in his position as the president of the United States. The president has no right to remove him. He can only be removed on account of his own laches. A great many of your neighbors are mechanics, gentlemen. Did you never notice how proud they are of their advancement in their position? How they seek to attain eminence in their respective callings. It is so with a judge. Actuated by the same sentiments of a common humanity, he seeks to place his own name high on the roll of eminent jurists, and this is in my opinion the, most eminent position attainable. I look upon the position of kings and monarcbs as insignit cant when compared i 340 AND AMENDMENT OF THE'CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. with that of the judge. I cannot compare a decide according to law. I believe that George II with such a man as Coke. questions of national politics, which con cern the people, should be discussed before them thoroughly, so that they may be well aware of the questions at issue, and so be able to vote understandingly. But it regard to the judiciary there is no distinction. Every judge is bound to decide in the same manner and according to the law of the case. The term of four years which the gentleman proposes is so brief a term that few wise men could accept it. There are few that could afford it. A lawyer whose practice is three or four times as valuable as the salary proposed would hardly break up h is practice to accept such a position for so short a time. This short-term principle we have been fighting if or three weeks in the elective system; but no sooner had we, as I thought, finally dis posed of i t, than here it comes agai in ill another sha pe. Supposewe adopt this system? The result is that the governor, at the end of every four years, has to re-appoint a supreme court. Now this proposition. I take it, if we adopt it, will only be a tresh bid for corruption. Why, sir, let us suppose now that the governor appoints judges for four years, I ask if the judiciary cannot make a contract with the then present executive, or with another candidate, to re-appoint them, provided they will cast their influence for his election or re-election? This will be easy of accomplishment; the judiciary will become a matter of bargain and sale, and will be a tremendous and dangerous engine of political corruption. Could this be done, would not it be done? [Voice' Yes, that's so."] I am talking for the future of Louisiana, and just as certain as there are dishonest men among politicians this office will become, if this amendment is adopted, a matter of bargain and sale. The " outs," will always find the "ins?" corrupt, and will remove them on the ground that they are rascals; they will swear it, because they want to go in. The same principles apply to the amendment of Mr. Hills, but they will not occur quite, as often. You will have a parcel of barna cles in office that will be unworthy of appointment. If,our governor should now Since the appo intive system for a lifetime has b een adopted, there has not b een one judg e in a thou sand that has disgraced his office or bee n disgraced in office.d And why cs this? Wh en you look back for one hundr ed and four years into English his - tory, and for nearl y one century in the U nited St ates, and see the glories of that judiciary system, who is th ere to say that there is danger that these men will become corrupt? What inducement has a judge to become corrupt? S upp ose h e does, he has the b ar and all honorable men against him at once. Sir, he may a s well be in prison as when corrup t a nd on the bench. He becomes at o n ce the contempt of all honorabl e men. Every consid eration tends to prevent the judge for good behavior fr om corruption. What must be an appointive judicia ry when judg es may become eminent and gre at in learning and usefulness? Can thes e requisites be exp ected of men appointed for two, four or six years? My wh ole soul s ( i tis wrapt up bin this sub. ect;ni a hi not for to day nor to-morrow, but for the people of L ouisiana of to-day and of the future. The States at an early day had the system for which I am contending- eve r y one of them, with, perhaps, a single exception; and so me of them have handed down some most illustriou s decisions, while thei r rep orts, s ince they have adopted th e elective syst em, have become a- d isgrac e to the ju-t risprudence of the country. In the reports of criminal cases you will find decisions that will cover the worst rascals in New Orleans, because they have been given by judges who knew that unless they favored rascals they never could be re-elected. By the amendment of the gentleman from the Second District (Mr. Hills) I am not much astonished, as he is not a lawyer; but that the gentleman from the Fourth District (Mr. Shaw,) a gentleman in whose legal abilities, quick perception and sound judgment I have the highest confidence, should introduce such a resolution, surprises me. There is no partiality in the action of a judge. I care not, friend or foe, they are bound to deeide in. the same way, if they 341 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION governor and Senate? Mississippi shows a noble exception; and though she is on the wrong side to-day, I am proud to say that judges are not there appointed in accord ance with political views, because they know that they have more power than the whole Senate and governor together. Read youir Bibles and you will there find that the judges were most important and powerful| called, in fact, " the wise men." In Missis sippi appointment papers have been refused by the secretary of state to a judge on the ground that he was no lawyer, though elected a judge. A judge may, under our State laws, be appointed a judge who knows nothing of law, and you may swing, on that account solely, and you ought to be hung fbr putting such a man on the bench. According to your votes of yesterday, you decide both ways on this question, and I would like to know where you are. I would like to have you show me any other question where so much log-rolling has been practiced as in regard to this. For that very reason I am willing to take an elective judiciary. [Applause.] I am in favor of an appointive judiciary, but on appoint for life, he would have no power to mak e a bargain wi th t he appointees afterwards, nor would his successor be in a better cond ition in that respect. I am unconditionally for the report as it stands. I wish, sir-I would not care if every w or d w as written in l etters of gold and seen by every man in Louisiana. I, however. desire no office -God knows I have no aspirations in that direction. I believe that office is like the Indian's gun, it costs more than it comes to. I voted against tabling the amendment because I wanted to test that by a vote; but I shall vote against both of them. and against every other amendment in every shape that is not exactly consistent with my views as the report is. Again, I thank you, Mr. President and gentlemen, for' your indulgence; and I trust that, before choosing by your votes between the amendments and the report, you will look at the danger to our institutions on the one hand. and to the glorious future of Louisiana on the other. Mr. HEs-nzDMsox- There are two objections to the amendment of the gentleman from the Fourth (Mr. Shaw.) " from the Fourth (,Mr. Shaw.) I i thie very instant you elect judges for ten The first is, that we are trying to fix the or fifteen years or appoint judges for from salaries for judges who have no existence. one day to six years, I say there is no As we do not know as we shall have any dis- difference between the official corruption trict court, it is proper for the Legislature that will ensue under the appointive or to fix the proper amount, when they decide elective, because you can operate directly what inferior courts shall be established, upon them. Why is it that the constitution if any. provides for election of judges on a differ If gentlemen are striving to fix the term ent day from that of any other officers? of an appointive judge at four years, I will Because, it wvas thought best that the judges go for an elective judiciary. I believe that should not come before the people in that judges should hold their offices dutring good way-at the time of popular excitement behavior. If the amendment is to prevail, and in order to avoid mixing that election we might as well have new judges once a I with one dependent upon political issues. week. Why not.? On the score of policy, The reason why the people do not turn and because judges should have experience, out more largely on occasion of a judicial as it is well known that it is not the best election, has been asked by my friend fiom lawyer who makes the best judge, for the the Seventh, (Judge Howell.) t say it is business of the former is to look at and because there is 110o money or political present only one side of a case as strongly favors to be given out by the man who is as possible, whereas the latter mulst look to come into power. impartially upon both sides. If I was the executive and two men were As to the statement that a nomination is presented to me as candidates for nominees the same as an appointment, did you ever to the bench-one being a secesh and the hear of a whig being proposed as a judge other a unionist-I could gratify whatever during the time when we had a democratic proclivities I might have. I i II 34-2 4 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. I say, that if I see a disposition among [52 members rose; rules suspended.] part of this House to make a mockery of [Mr. Montamat then offered the following:] this Convention, I am responsible to my Resolved, That the office of assistant seCconstituents and will vote for the sovereign retary, now filled by Mr. T. H. Mulrphy, be action of the people. [Applause.] I want and is hereby declared vacant. I Resolved, further, That the secretary be to know where we stand. Judges for fourt authorized to employ a proper person to or six years will make a mnere laughing fill said vacancy during the balance of the stock of the judiciary, and the whole matter session. will become purely one of political specu- Mr. ABEl,l, —Mr. President, the scriptures lation. But when a governor nominates a command us tc forgive seventy times seven. man and the Senate confirms the nomina- and I hope you will allow Mr. Murphy to tion, placing him upon the beinch for life- remain with us. I pledge myself to say time o good behavior, it becomes a solemn nothing more upon the matter. if he, at a ~~~~~~~~notigmre fupnthre tmater. if cometett attn to and serious affair, and they will endeavor future te is not competent to attend to to consider well beforehand. Good be- business. havior is the best test, and you can provide Mr MoTAAIt is not the first tie for cases of insanity or other disabling this thing has occurred. I am informed that for cases ot insanity or other disabling ~~~~~~~cause. |on three times he has neglected his duty car. usLf.IAN-I move to adjourn until very much and has been absent from this ~~Thursday, rat 12tM. {Convention. I nominated him on therepre [The motion was carried b,y a rising vote sentation of one of my friends from the of 5'4 yeas to 23 nays.] - Third Ward-knowing nothing about him. Seeing that he was not doing his duty, I re TacRsI)AY, June 2, 1864. quested him to resign, but he would not. [The Convention met pursuant to adjourn- Mr. CAZABAT-I move the resolution be ment. The roll was called and the follow- laid on the table. ing members answered to their names:] [Seconded.] Messrs. Ariail, Austin, Balch, Baum, Bar- Mr. STOCKER —I move Mr. Murphy be rett, Bell, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Collin,!allowed to explain. Cook J. K., Crozat, Decker, Duane, Duke, I I ~~~~~[Seconded.'] Dufresne, - Edwards, Flagg, Flood, Folev [ecoded] Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Grune PrS ):ENT-If the gentleman is to reberg, Harnan, Healy, Heard, Henderson, main here, I should direct the sergeant-atHills, Howell, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mau- iarms to remove him, as he is even now rer, Mayer, Montamat, Morris, Mewell. Nor- mand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pintado, Pursell ncapable of performing his duty. S., Schniilrr, Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stauf- Mr. STOCKER-The gentleman is here and fer, Stumpf, Sullivan, Terrv, Wells, Wilson, I claim that he should be heard. Our ideas and Mr. President-55. I will be advanced by allowing him to ex [There being no quorum present, the ser- plain. plin geant-at-arms was directed to bring in ab- Sir. MONT'..MAT-According to a vote we snt members.' can declare any office vacant without giving After some delay the following members any reasons. entered the hall and answered to their [Resolution carried and office declared names:] vacant. Messrs. Abell, Bailey, Beauvais. Bofill, The secretary thereupon appointed Mr. Bromley. Fish, Fosdick, Fuller, Gorlinski, Philip Winfree to fill the vacancy occasioned Hart, Hire, Howes, Mendiverri, Murphy M. W., Ong, Orr, Paine J. T., Pnrcell J.. Smith by the adoption of said resolution.] Stocker, Stiner, Waters-22. Mr. HILLS —I rise to make a motion which [The president announced a quorutm I believe to be in order, and it is to offer present. an amendment to the amendment of Mr. The minutes of yesterday's proceedings Shaw, proposed on yesterday. In doing so, were read and adopted.] I beg leave to offer a single word in regard Mr. MONTAM?-T-I move for a suspension to what I said on yesterday. I approve of of the rules in order to offer a resolution. short terms of office for the judiciary, but 34,3 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION ready been fixed at four years. I would call his attention to the fact that we have not yet fixed the terms of any of the State officers. We have not fixed the term of the governor at four years. I, for one, am in favor of short terms. I have not that distrust of the sovereign people that some gentlemen profess. I believe that in those States where the governor is elected every two years, he is, and the State officers elected with him are, as free from the objection of corruption as where they are elected for longer terms. In the State of New York, for instance, they are elected for two years, and American history does not furnish a more illustrious list of names than of the governors of New York. I shall not refer particularly to other States, but I believe the same rule will be found to apply. I am in favor of electing the superintendlent of public education, and I am not certain that I shall not advocate the election of all State officers every two years. Then if we get a good governor, and good State officers, we can keep them four years, but if we should get a bad set, for God's sake give the people a chance to change them every two years. That is what I say. [Applause.] Mr. THORPE-Mr. Abell, in dwelling on the corruption that would take place in the supreme judges, under limited terms of office, has acted very much like the cow that gives a good pail of milk and then kicks it over. I cannot understand how it is when a judge is appointed for ten years, if he wishes to be re-appointed, must be necessarily corrupt, and bring corrupt inflitences to accomplish his wishes. I do not believe there are so many corrupt influences brought to bear on the executive. I am in favor of the appointive system, but I have seen the evils of life appointments under the Federal government, to which I will not allude, and in the State of Louisiana. If the gentleman will refer to the circumstances that called the convention of 1845, he will see that the chief reason was to get clear of certain dead wood connected with the judicial bench. A great deal has been said about Judge Martin, whom I consider would be a judicial light in any State of the Union; hlie is only second to such a man as Marshall. States are faster than the Federal government-are more progressive and rapid in their movements. and require, consequently, a different sys not of terms so short as those proposed by Mr. Shaw, which fixes the app ointment of judges with every change of administration. T her efore, as an ame ndment to that amendment, I move that the terms be fixed at ten year s for judges of th e Suprem e C ourt, and thos e of judges of inferior court s at eight years. Mr. FOLEY —I second that. .ir. SMITHI-I move to lay the anendment on the table. [Seconded —Yeas 3.',. nays S8. Motion to table lost.] Mfr. HOWETLiI-If any gentleman on the floor wishes to advocate the affirmative, I would like to hear him before I proceed. As chairman of the committee, I claim the right to close the argu,metnt on the part of the oliposition to the amendment. Mr. ORR-I think Mr. Abell has been pe culiarly unfortunate in his argument. He has submitted that the apt:ointive system is totally defective unless the appointments are for life, and that a system of bribery and corruption will be successfully pursued on the part of applicants to the offices of the judiciary. He has made use of the same argument which I presented day before yesterday, in favor of the elective system. He has dragged before the Convention the British system of judiciar,y,, and laws, which has nothing to do with this country. We are the Unitedl States of America-not the Kingdom of Great Britain. He had advocated the aristocratic system of appointment, and I only wonder he has not gone further in urging the aristocratic salaries of that country. I have not much to say oc this subject, The committee were unanimous, so far as its members were present. We agreed that the constitution of 1852 could not be improved on that point. The gentleman seems to found his objections to the term we have reported, upon the assumption that the terms of the other State officers have al it I wish to call the attention of the gentleman from the Second to the importance of possessing a good me.,nory, and of remembering to-day what he may have said yesterday. I will read a portion of one of his speeches. made on the nineteenth day, when the subject of education wa-s before the Convention. He says: 11 AND AMENDMENT OPFTHE- (ONSTITUTJION'OF'-LOUISIANA. tern; and I think that ten years is quite enough to trust any judge on the beneh. Go back four years, for instance, and what was the state of public opinion in Louisiana then? What a monstrous proposition it would have been to have told the people of Louisiana that in four years this Convention would be assembled in this State, and pass, with hardly any opposition, the ordinance of emancipation. If we have a judiciary for ten years, it is all we should ask, because some revolution in public sentiment may occur again in that time, and I would rather have a bench that can be removed every ten years. I have nothing more to say with reference to the appointment of the judiciary. I agree with Mr. Abell, but should like to have the compromise of Mr. Hills accepted, but between the life appointment and the elective judiciary, I shall vote for the elective. Mr. STOCKER —I am one of those who, throughout my life, have taken that which came the nearest my own preferences, and Mr. Shaw's amendment approaches nearer than that of Mr. Hills, therefore I shall support it. The main ground upon which I opposed the appointive judiciary was on the clause of "during good behavior." A man may behave well and at the same time be incompetent for the position he occupies, through physical infirmities, and many other causes. One of my reasons for supporting the elective judiciary was the rotation in office, for the oftener changes are made the better it will be for the,people. If a man is found to be good, the people will again elect him, but if bad he cannot be re-elected. For these reasons I am in favor of the amendment, making the term four and six years. Mr. S.mITni —e are told by the gentleman from the Fifth, (Mr. Abell,) that the judge has no incentive to rise, simply from the fact that the people can displace him at their pleasure. I am in favor of the elective judiciary, because I believe it is clearly a right belonging to the people, and to no other. I think the gentleman's going to Great Britain for great decisions is in bad taste. How many of the masses of the people of England have had an interest in them from the days of Edward I down to the 44 days of QueenrVictoria? They are not for ihe mass of the people, but it is different ill our republican government, and the people are interested in these matters. How many here ever heard of Lieut. Gen. Grant six ye ars ago, but who has not hea rd of the name of Gen. Scott, the pampered favorite of the government and the cit izens? Take the history of the military commanders to-day, and who are fighting our battles? Every man has sprung from the people alone and raised to the different ranks they hold, and yet we are all told the people have no right to the elective judiciary. Mr. BILLS-I would inquire whether I have a fight to close this debate. I have not yet spoken on the question. PRESIDENT —You have the right to close the debate. Mr. STAUFFER-I desire to give my reasons for voting to lay the last amendment offered on the table. Under the existing eircumstances the people are not prepared for these changes. This question has not been agitated before the people when the members to this Convention were elected, and I do not wish to take the resposibility of voting against the wish of the people. At the time the only question I raised was that of emancipation, but I believe in voting for the elective judiciary, I am voting for the people. Mr. HARA.~'-I-Mr. President, though I am not gifted in that loquacious delivery of eloquence as my predecessor, in rising to say a few words, I claim a few moments of their attention. 'I am opposed to the appointing power in one man, and I am in favor of putting every thing in the hands of the people. Yes, we may be told that the governor will select suitable persons for the office of judges. One will say that the governor has good intentions and means well; it is an oldl saying that hell is paved with good inten-5 tions; and if you give the power to one man you will find that you will have hell's( paving stones hurled at you every day by the way of appoinments, and some of themvery remote. Look at appointment of bureaus of the city ofNewOrleans; they do not publish I -1 '3,4'5 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION the advocates of the elective system in favor of thi s am endment; but to find those who advocated the appointive judiciary from principle favoring it, is a matter inexplicable. I do not contend for the appointive power simple to take it away from the people-simply to place it in the hands of the governor —but on the ground that it is the only mode by which, if properly carried out, the independence and the stability of the judiciary can be attained. Is it true that the independence of the judidiciary is attained by a limited term, either elective or appointive? There is no system which is permanent, because man's existence is uncertain; but the system we propose to establish attains this as near as it is possible under the institutions of man. I say, then, it astonishes me to find men advocating the appointive system and asserting that they prefer an election of the judges to the appointment, during good behavior. It is just as inconsistent as it is to say, that if I cannot get what I want I will have nothing at all. The judiciary established by the appointing power, during a good behavior, secures the independence and stability of that system as far as it is possible to be obtained, for these reasons among others: that when the bench is once formed it cannot be tampered with or changed, except as the laws of nature or the will of the invidual judge affords occasion. The judge appointed during good behavior, the people know he is there during his own will, up to the day of his death. He has the certainty that the duties of his office are entrusted to him and that he is responsible to his God for the manner in which he discharges those duties. I believe in.the doctrine of the statesman who said that the judiciary should be responsible alone to God; not, mind you, as a man, but as an officer who sits between man and manwho sits between men and their God. It is essential that you should have some authority when the disputes between men are to be determined, and hence it is important that the principle upon which these rights and disputes are to be determined should be stable and uniform. But when the judiciary is constantl~y subject to Change, youl any of their acts for the public good. Some people outside inform me that there never was any of the proceedings of the bureaus published, only the one about the woodpile. pir. pHOWELL-In andition to the intimations which members on the floor exhibit in regard to taking the question, I am still more embarrassed by the seeming confidence of the advocates of these amendments in their success; because even with an experienced speaker it is a disadvantage to attempt to argue against that which he feels is already decided against him, and much greater is it to one who has so little experience in public speaking as I have. It is a sense of duty that still impels me to raise my voice upon the question before us, in which the highest interests of the people of Louisiana are involved. It is my appreciation of the prerogative and character of the judiciary which influences my action, and I am willing to admit that every other gentleman is actuated by similar motives, and that he desires only the highest interests of the State. In that feeling do I approach this subject, and I shall oppose both amendments, because I believe the best good is attainable in the mode pointed out by the report itself. I believe the great object of the Convention should be-and I am willing to say it is-to adopt the system of judiciary which will secure the best good to the people, and be most acceptable to them. It is important and necessary to look at the character and prerogative of this department ot the government. I agree with the gentleman that it is right and necessary that the people shall retain the control, but contend that, in our form of government, owing to inherent principles already maintained, that there must be a conservative principle in the government, or the popular form of government necessarily tends to anarchy and the power of the mob. I contend that the safest check, the only check in our form of government to that tendency, is in an independent judiciary. To attain the independence of the judiciary, is to remove it as far as possible from all political concerns. The appointive system for good behavior is only made to effect that. It does not astonish me to find I 1, i i 346 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. destroy the possibility of that uniformity. I am satisfied of two things, that they are I refer the members of this Convention to honest in their conclusions and that their the comparison of the jurisprudence of conclusions are most apt to be right. Louisiana under the two systems. Those I shall oppose this amendment on the furfamiliar with the Supreme Court of this ther ground that for the sake of the govState, refer with pride and confidence to ernor himself, as well as for the sake of the the application of the great principles of judge and the people, this amendment the law as made under the appointive judi- should not be adopted. There is no more ciary for good behavior, when, at the same powerfuil or appropriate expression of time, they refer with distrust and uncer- prayer, in all the history of human lantainty to those decisions reported since that guage, than that contained in the few words, time. So common has become that feeling, "Lead us not into temptation." By the that it has been asserted in law courts by action of this Convention the governor has eminent counsel upon applying for appeal a right to be continued in office during life, from a decision against them, to admit to if he can secure his repeated re-election. the inferior judge that his decision is cor- If it be contended that bad men may be aprect but that the party wished to succeed pointed judges, it is not a very rash asserand might do so by appealing, there being tion to say that a bad man may be elected so much uncertainty in the Supreme Court. governor; and if that be possible, is it not It has become so because of the changes of possible for him to use the appliances of his the judges. There is no other cause. This office to secure his re-election? There are is a degradation to the judiciary of the at present fourteen judicial districts outState, and had it been in the power of the side of New Orleans, with fourteen judges, district judges to have done so, it would and there are six district judges in this have been proper to have punished it as city, making twenty in all, who under the contempt, but the law did not permit. Let amendment have to be re-appointed every me say, as I have already alluded to law- eight years or four years. The first govyers, that if the bar of this State were ernor elected under this constitution, or actuated by their individual and personal holding office under it, will fill the first interests, they would advocate the short- bench. He serves out one term without est terms possible, because the frequent reference to the appointing of the judges, changes in the judiciary increases litigation. if they are appointed for eight years. If It renders uncertain and unsettled the juris- h( be continued, before the election comes prudence of the State, and what may be on the batch of judges have to be re-apdecided as a true principle of law to-day, pointed. Is it contrary to nature to say may be decided to be incorrect next year. that these twenty judges, having a jurisdicWhere a contract has been made to-day tion throughout the whole State, will not with reference to certain enunciated princi- feel peculiarly interested in the election for pies of law, of the Supreme Court, and governor? Will it be impossible that the that bench is changed, there may be candidate for governor should feel a dispoanother enunciation of the same principle. sition to obtain the influence of those Before leaving this portion of my argu- judges? The appointment for life, or good ment, 1 will take the liberty of saying, that behavior, removes that temptation; the so far as my knowledge of the legal pro- judges themselves are removed from that fession extends, and so far as they have temptation. But it is urged that bad judges expressed their opinions, they are opposed, may be on the bench. A great many things not only to the elective judiciary, but to may happen, and have happened; there may happen, and have happened; there any limit of the term. I take this as a may be a bad governor, and he may place * ~~~~may be a bad governor, and he mayr place guarantee of the honesty of the profession, a bad judge on the bench, but is it neceswhich needs no defence from me, and is a sarily true that he would do so? That be proof that the principles I advocate are proof that the principles I advocate are 0 would desire to do so is admitted; but that true, because when all men advocate that he is tempted not to- do so, or may be, canprinciple that tends to lessen their profits, not be denied. I would not oppose the 347 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION system where there was a little monarch in every parish of the State; and to get rid of them was one of the principal reasons for calling the Convention of 1845. The main question was that of universal suffrage, and the Convention should bear in mind that this discussion upon the question of slavery has been growing and growing throughout the history of this government. I believe that the elective judiciary has contributed as much as any other cause in this country to bring about the troubles now upon us. It is my earnest desire that, now we have an opportunity of starting anew, we should avoid every cause which contributed to bring us into our present troubles. And I most earnestly contend that the independence and permanency of the judiciary is the very best means of protecting the people against these comnmotions, periodical changes and excitements that run over all countries. It is the great sheet-anchor of republican institutions in this country. While all parts of the Union were shaken by popular excitements, the independent judiciary stands unmoved and unshaken. The serene atmosphere which pervades its precincts was untroubled by popular commotions. Admit them once, and you impair the security of our form of government. I fear I am becoming tiresome, but I would like to direct the attention of the Convention, for a moment, to the practical application of the amendments now before us. We have decided that the judgeswithout passing on the last branch of the question-that the supreme judges shall not be elected for ten years. We decided that in taking a vote on Mr. Sullivan's amendment to the third article of this report, and in rejecting it. Upon another amendment, that of Mr. Stauffer, we decided that the district court judges shall not be appointed for six years, or the judges of the inferior courts. But nbw, when we have concluded, virtually, that the judiciary shall be appointed, we have a proposition presented to appoint for eight and-ten years, and this, if adopted, takes the place of the original amendment, which its mover explained had no reference to the mode of appointing. Suppose we adopt this~ amendment. to~ the amendment, li mited term, fo r th e s ake of the judge himself, nor for the sake of th e people only, but because it is better to bear with a bad judge than to establis h a system which will necessarily produce far greater evils. The minds of the Conven tio n ha ve been directed to one or two instances of bad judges-instances so rare that it i s a compliment to the judici ary of th e civilized w orld. The most prominent example istto that of the ignominious Jeffr ies, of the Engli sh bench. The ins tance of Judg e Ta ney is presented. Have the gentlemen r ead the' Dred Scott decision, and will the y i nfor m me wh at it was? I admit there were sentiments enunciated in the opinions in that case to which I do not give my assent; but I say that that d ecisio n i tself was right. It only decides on the facts in that p ar ticular case —that the man, Dred Scott, had not the right to stand i n judg m ent as a citizen. T he objec tion able part of tha t case can be designated in legal parlance as obiter dictu. While referring to tha t tribunal, let me pay a feeble tribute of praise to the correctness of th e p rincipl es upo n w hich it is establis hed. While the whole country has been going wild on State rig hts, franchise, and those questions which have stirr ed up th e masses in this country, that bench has been firm and unsh aken, and but one solitary man has w ithdrawn from it in consequence of the troubles, and he was an Alabamian who had been th er e but a short time. O thers w er e there f r om the South, but they did no t r esig n. Allusion has been made t o C hi ef Justice Martin, ande he ha s b een held u ip a s br i nging ab ou t th e ch ange in the judiciary system. Gentlemen before making that assertion ought to know a little of the histo ry of t he State, and particularly the jurisprudence. I admit that it was asserted occasionally that he had become imbecile and should be taken from the supreme bench; but those who made that assertion either did not know what they were talking about, or had personal and sinister motives; and I refer the people to the very last decision rendered by that eminent judge. He evinced the perfect soundness of his judgmentin his last official act. It was not the supreme bench that brought the judiciary into disregard. It was the parish- judges, a 348 ii i I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF.LOUISI.ANA. 149 what will be the effect in the article as amended? There can be no other mode of arriving at the appointment of the judges than by the governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate. If we reject it, what will be the condition of affairs? We will either be left with a court without judges, or we must go back and undo what we havealready done. Gentlemen should not, in- my opinion, be so fearful of the judiciary, What man inthis Convention, or what man of their constituents, will say that he has suffered by the judiciary because they were judges? It is necessary to have judges, and it is the part of this Convention to determine the mode of selecting the best ones; and when they have been selected, let them remain. If an occasional man is appointed who is unworthy of his place, it is better. to bear with the evils of which you know, than to ta.ke upon you those which maybe of far greater weight. You suspect not only the people and the judges,. but the governor in this matter. You are unjust to both, b ye cause you say that when a bad judge is put upon the bench there is no mode of getting. rid of him, but by the appointing power what was the action of the Convention yesterday? You then strnick a serious blow to the permanency of the judiciary in this State, in deciding that a mere majority of the General Assembly shall remove a judge. If you want the people to be guarded against a bad judge, you have in that as full a guaratee as.you can have by leaving it to the governor to change him at the end of the term, because it is unfortunately true, that in the politics of this country certain influences can be brought to bear which will retain even objectionable men in office. I contend, from this, that if there be a bad judge, who is totally unfit for his position, it is as easy for the people to get rid of him through the action of the Legislature as through that of the governor. All will readily understand my position, itf they do not agree with me. It is not the ordinary signification of the words "good behavior' only which is involved in the constitution. It refers to a judge's official behavior, and includes that just as much as- -his; socials and moral- be havior. The man who makes himsel f so oppressive to the peo ple as to become a Jeffries, is not a man who continues in good official behavior, and I contend, sir, that the laws of nature and the various interests that operate upon human motives, will produce and bring about all the changes which the people require., Judges do resign, gentlemen, and do die, and thus as mans changes occur as it is well to effect. Judges Porter and Bullard resigned, as did Judge Martin, at one time, but was reinstated. Judge Matthews died, and so did Judge Martin, a short time after he left his office. But how many resignations were there under the eight-year term, under the constitution of 1845? More, in proportion, than there were under the appointive system for life. Judge Preston was killed, and his place was supplied by Judge Campbell, who resigned. I cannot now call to mind the names of many others. Judge Ogden was another instance, though he was an elective judge. There was a judge to every year and a half, through that term of eight years, to which the judiciary was limited. In the nine years succeeding it, under the elective system, there were twelve judges. In the eighteen years-the first after the organization of the State-there were, I think, five different judges; one of them was advanced to the United States District Court, and his place was filled by appointment; another resigned, and another died-both pjaces being filled by appointment; so that you see this talk about continuing men in office for life and saddling them upon-the people, loses its force with regard to the judiciary. It is better even that the judiciary should be permanent than that the jurisprudence should be unsettled. Mr. AUSTIN-I move we adjourn. [The motion was seconded.]. Mr. HILLS —I believe it is conceded by the chair, that I have a right to close this debate. I do not propose -to take more than ten minutes, and if other gentlemen wish to speak, I will, as I do not wish to cut them off, give way for a motion to adjourn. *Mr. AvsTrNT —If gentlemen wish to speak, I will withdraw my motion. ~Mr. SagLV~-I renew it. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION seen the error of their ways and have returned to the people their right to elect their own judges, and the elective judiciary has done away with the burning of witches. The gentleman from the Fifth tells us that the judges are bound to decide, or like to decide, any given case, according to law. Now, sir. that is jilst exactly my position. And the question I shall ask, respecting a judge who was to decide a case to which I wa s a party, would be: Is he honest? " If he is, sir, and my case comes before him, whatever the case may be, there are nine cases out of ten when his decision will be right, and if taken to the Supreme Court will be sustained. My friend says that he has no ambition; he wants no office-not he. The gentleman is very modest, very modest indeed. I admire his modesty. It is refreshing in these times to meet a modest man sometimes. We sometimes read of them in the records of the times to which the gentleman has referred. Richard III was one of them. He was a modest man-very. He did not want a crown. He wouldn't be a king. He would n't wear a crown under any consideration. Yet he managed to get the better of his scruples. Mr. STOCKER-I claim the floor. [The yeas and nays were demanded and the motion lost.] YEa,s-M essrs. Abell, Aus tin, Banum, Bai ley, Buckl ey, Cam pbell, C o ok J. K., Crozat, Decker, Dufresne, Duke, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Gaidry, Goldman, Gruneberg, Hart, Maurer, Mendiverri, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters-34. N.iKYs-Messrs Ariail, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Col lin, Cook T., Cutler, Duane, Edwards, Fish, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Harnan, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Montamat, Morris, Payne J., Paine J. T., Pintado, Pursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Stiner, Stauffer, Ter ry, Thorpe, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-48. Mr. CAMPBELL —I am very sorry to detain this Convention longer than it desires to be detained, and will endeavor to make my remarks so brief as not to detain you long. A great many gentlemen have addressed this Convention on the opposite side of the question, and I must say most of their guns have been badly shotted and have scattered badly. Mr. Abell, it seems, sir, has gone back, away back to antediluvian times when the world was a wild, as well as others. I want to show that I can go back to the ancient times, too, to prove my side of the question. Now, sir, I am going back beyond the time to which the gentleman referred-to our first parents in the garden of Eden. Our old mother Eve, sir, betrayed her lord and master Adam, and, sir, she was appointed for him. Had he been allowed to elect a companion she would not have betrayed the trust. So much for antediluvian times. My friend went back to the time of the ancient Egyptians, who thought the world was a dead plain and that the sun went around it every day, as a specimen of opposition times. Now, sir, I am not done with the gentleman from the Fifth District, (Mr. Abell) yet. He says that all the old puritan States adopted the appointive system. They appointed the judges, Mr. President, and what did those judges do? Why, sir, they tied people to stakes and burnt them for witches. That, sir, was in puritan times, under appointive judges. But, sir, they do not still hold to the system-they have t wic e. Mr. STOCKER —Only once, Mr. President. My friend from the Seventh, (Mr. Howell,) a gentleman whom I respect highly, has made some assertions here which I desire to answer. He has spoken at least five times of the independent judiciary. He says the independent judiciary has been unshaken before the country, and wishes to know if any one has suffered from the judiciary, etc. I want to know what he means by the independent judiciary; whether he means a judiciary independent of the people? [Applause.] I do not know of anybody who has suffered from an elective judiciary, but I do know of some who have suffered from an appointive judiciary, and without going back to Jeffries and Taney, I will refer to Jludge Garland, of this State. Mr. President, I see that I am not treated with respect by the members of this Con 350 PRESII)ENT-I think yoii have spoken AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. vention, and therefore decline to say anything further on this subject. Mr. FLOODI hear a good deal said about the constitution of 1812. Under it a man could not vote unless he owned and paid clearly, since we have, on two or three dif ferent occasions, voted against an elective judiciary. The gentleman from the Fifth (Mr. Abell) very properly said that the issue was narrowed down to the single point of the length of the term of the judges' offices. It is whether they sha ll be appointed during good beha vior, or whether a limit shall be placed to that tenure-making it for a certain number of years. The argument of the gentleman from the Fifth District, in favor of life tenure, is based wholly upon the supposition that the people are very corrupt; that all elections are carri ed by frau d a nd cor rupti on. If his argu me nt does not mean th at, i t does not mean anything. He says, in speaking of the corruption which would be resorted to in order to elect a governor, with the understanding that he was to appoint a judiciary, that corruption is the " prevailing rule." Now, sir, I do not so far distrust the people; but while I do not believe that it is safe to entrust the people with the elec tion of judges, I do so far trust then as to believe' that at stated periods, not too fre quent, they should have the privilege of expressing their approval or disapproval of judicial officers. Under both systems, it seems to me, we are liable to corruption on the bench. The gentleman asks: "What motive an appointed judge will have to act against justice, if appointed for life? " I ask if the history of the world does not show that men, whose interest it was to go, right, have frequently gone wrong? How was it with Lord Bacon, one of the most philosophical men the world ever produced? Why, sir, he was bribed, upon the bench. There is no such thing as human perfection. Ap pointed judges may be corrupt and so may elected judges; blt in my opinion the lat ter will go wrong nine times where the for mer will once. [Applause.] Now, then, I say we must get as near to perfection as we can. I believe in the power of the peo ple in their rights, but not in the right to elect their judges directly. I propose by this measure to steer as nearly as I believe it possible, between the evils of both sys tems, to take that middle course which has generally been iound to be the safest, be taxes upon a certain amount of property; nor be a member of the Legislature, or Senate, unless under the same restrictions. Under the constitution of 1812, Judge Elliott was impeached and convicted of naturalizing whole shiploads of Irish before the law would have allowed him to. There was Judge Garland, who forged a note for a large sum, and was imprisoned, but through intercessions was set at large, and is living in Texas at this very day. These are some of the specimens of ap pointive judges. Show me any judges elected in 1852 that are equal in rascality to these two! As for my part, I go in for electing the judiciary, and every other office-holder in Louisiana. [Applause.] Mr. HmILS —Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention: If yo'u will give me your attention, I will let you up lightly; but if you interrupt me, I shall put it to you for a whole hour. I regret very much, Mr. President, that the defence of this proposition, which I have had the honor to submit, should devolve upon myself, as most of the gentlemen pre ceding me have opposed it. Before entering upon the discussion of the main question, I wish to say a word to my friend from the Tenth District, (Mr. Orr,) who saw fit to entertain this audience by reading a portion of one of my printed speeches, delivered upon the subject of education, in which I spoke in favor of short terms for elective officers. The ap plause which followed the reading, seemed to me sufficient evidence that it was regarded as the best part of that gentleman's remarks. [Laughter.] There was no inconsistency, however, between what I said then and do say now. I am in favor of short terms for officers elected by the people, but am not in favor of the election of judges by the people at all. [Applause.] I do not propose to argue the merits of the elective or appointed judiciary. I re gard that question as settled already very 35l $1 DEBA IN THE i CONVENTION' TEV ON' tween extreme conservatism upon the one side and radicalism upon the other. My friend from the Fifth is very much given to figures of speech. He frequently takes illustrations from whips, harnesses, and that sort of thing. I propose to borrow one of his figures. We see that there are two principles involved in construction of the harness-the go-ahead principlethe propelling power, and the hold back strap. I call the first the progressive and the latter the conservative. Sometimes the conservative power is lodged with the government and the courts, and sometimes with the people. If we read the constitutional history of England, which has been so frequently referred to by the gentleman, we find that for centuries there was a struggle between the people and the king. For what? To preserve those rights and liberties, against the king and his judiciary, to which every nation and people are entitled. The people are not always corrupt. The people may be trusted, but on this question they must not be trusted too far. If the bench is made liable to the fluctuations of public sentiment every three or four years, time is not given to establish the dignity, character, and impartiality of the judges who are to dispense justice, who should do right. Therefore, it is that I propose to take the middle course, and by placing the duration of the terms at ten years, to give the people at the lapse of every ten years a chance to express their approval or disapproval of their judicial officers. If the judges or the government become corrupt, then the people become the conservative power, and I propose to place in their hands the conservative principle, by which they may, onr. occasion necessary, sustain their rights and liberties. Ten years, as a rule, make a term long enough for any man to hold office, in my humble opinion. The gentleman from the Seventh, (Judge Howell,) for whom I have a very high respect as a lawyer and a gentleman, has told us that judges often resign and frequently die. Now, Mr. President, my observation is, that appointed judges never resign and seldom die. [Laughter:] There may have been exceptions, but-this, Ibe lieve, is the rule, and if I were in the life insurance business, I would issue a policy to an appointed judge with a good salary wwithout a ski ng him the state of h is healt h! [Great applause.] Tat n lea - s, i th hat gentleman has, ith what seems to me perfect consistency, stood up here to defend the decision in the celebrated case of Dred Scott.:He tells us that that decision was right. I stand up he re to dec lare, that of all the decisions ever recorded in the his tory of the be nch, there is no ne so infamous as that same decision o f Judge Taney's. [Great applause.] Mr.'MANN —What did the court decide? Mr. HILLS —-It decided that a negro was not a citizen of the United States, and in deciding that it told us that a black man had no rights which a white man was bound to respect. Was that decision right? [Loud cries of " no."] Limiting ourselves to the first statement, I say that if that is right then Attorney General Bates is wrong; for the reason, that in an elaborate and able opinion delivered a short time ago, he decided directly against Judge Tang. o that very point, and decided farther that negroes are citizens. That judgment was no credit to the chief justice, and it is a pity, in my opinion, that he did not resign before he gave a decision so infamous. But we have him saddled upon us and how can we get rid of him? He will not resign, and there is not, as I have heard, any prospect of his dying! [Applause.] There are some men in this world whom it would seem the devil does not wish to take to himself, (I do not wish to apply this to Judge Taney); some, on whom he has a mortgage upon, but does not wish to foreclose it, because it will be against his interest. I do not wish to be understood as making any personal application, but such men have been known on the English bench under an appointed system, and certainly such may have been in our Supreme Court, I will not say in regard to it. My friend from the Fifth was not surprised-at my amendment, knowing that I am not a lawyer. If to be a lawyer is to approve such a decision as that-if to be i lawyer is to go against all justice and common sense, reason and -humanity, then I 0 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF, IOUISIANA. abat, Collin, Crozat, Cutler, Edwards, Foley, Fuller, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hil, Howell, Mann, Newell, Pintado, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-28. [Loud applause.] Mr. TERRY-I have a substitute for the article as amended. [Several motions to adjourn were made, and upon the question being put, the Convention separated until 12 m. of Friday, June 3d.] imui.st thank God I am not a lawyer. [Ap plause.] But, Mr. President, I do not desire to de tain the Convention, and will merely repeat that, in my opinion, this proposition avoids, in the first place, all the evils of the elective system, and in the second, by limiting appointments to ten years, leaves in the hands of the people a remedy against a corrupt bench. It seems to me that a fairer proposition could not be made regarding either th~ elective or appointed judiciary to remedy the expensive evils of both. I believe it to be founded in justice, reason and common sense, and shall therefore vote fo)r it. [The amendment of Mr. Hills to the a,mendment of Mr. Shaw was then put to vote, and upon roll call lost: ] YEa-,-Messrs. Bromley, Cazabat, Duane, Fish, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Goldman, Gorlinski, Harnan, Healy, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Mayer, Normand, Paine J. T., Pintado, Stumpf, Stiner, Thorpe, Waters —22. NAYs —-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Barrett, Baum, Beatlva;-s, Bell, Bofill, Bluckley, Burke, Campbell, (ollin, Cook T., Cook J. K., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Duke, Dufresne, Edwards, Flagg. Flood, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Gruneberg, Hart, Heard, Howell, Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mann, Mendiverri, Morris, Murphy M. W.. Newell, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S.. Schroeder, Seymour, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stauffer, Stocker, Sullivan, Terry, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-59. Mr. SH.W-I desire to make a merely verbal correction of my amendment, and instead of saying,'judges of the district courts," to insert in place thereof "judges of inferior courts. except justices of the peace," etc. ' [On the roll call the amendment of Mr. Shaw was adopted:] YEAS —Messrs. Barrett, Baum, Bell, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Fosdick, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Harnan, Hart, Hire, Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Morris, Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Paine J. T., Poynot, Purcell J., Putrsell S., Shaw, Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Stiner, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stauffer. Sullivan, Terry —53. NYs —Mess- 3. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Caz-s 45 FRIoDAY, June 3, 1864. [The Conve n tion met at 12 o'clock x. and was called to order by the president. The roll was called and the following members answered to their names:] NMessrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Ba rrett, Baum, Bell, Bromley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cook T., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Dufresne, Dupaty,. Flagg, Flood. Foley, Gaidry, Gastinel, r, Geie r n, Gorinski, Harnan, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Howell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Maurer, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Newell, O'Conner, Ong, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauiffer, Sullivan, Terry, Waters, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President-59. [There being no quorum, the sergeant-atarms was directed to bring in absent members, and after some delay the following members took their seats and answered to their names, viz:] Messrs. Bailey, Bofill, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Duane, Duke, Edwards. Fish, Fosdick, Hart, Hire, Howes, Murphy M. W., Normand, Seymour, Stocker, Stumpf —17. [The president announced a quorum present. The minutes were read and adopted. The order of the day was taken up, article 11, of the report on the judiciary as amended.] Mr. BAUM-I voted in the majority and I move to reconsider the vote of yesterday on Mr. Shaw's amendment. Mr. FOLk,E —I move to lay the motion on the table. [The yeas and nays were ordered and the motion lost, as follows:] YEA.S —Messrs. Barrett. Bell, Buokley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Davies, Dufresne, Dupaty, Flood, Gastinel, Gaidry, Geier, Gorlinski, Harnan. Howes, Hender:son, Knobloch, Mauirer., Montamat, Morris, i 353 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION MHowell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Ong, Pintado, Seymour, Stumpf, Stiner, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson —50. NA.Y,s-Messrs. Barrett, Buckley, Campbell, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T.. Decker, Dutfresne, Gastinel, Geier, Harnan, Howes, Maurer, Montamat, Morris, Normand, Orr, O'Conner, Payne J., Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder, Schniirr, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry-30. Mr. TERIiY —I offer the following slubstitute for article 11: The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, and justices of the peace, shall be elected by the qualified voters of the State; provided, that until two years after the present rebellious war is ended in this State, the proof of which shall be a ,proclamation from the President of the United States to that effect, the said judges and justices of' the peace shall be appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and the term of office as herein expressed and for which they shall have been so appointed, shall be stipulated in the commissions of the said judges and justices of the peace. After that period, the governor shall issue his proclamation ordering an election for judges of the Supreme Court, inferior courts and justices of the peace, by the legal voters of the State, in accordance with the enactment coti,;ali'" this article. Mr. AUSTIy-I move to lay it on the table. [The yeas and nays were demanded and the roll called:] YEAs —Messrs. Abe'l, Ariail, Austin, Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley; Burke, Czzabat, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cro zat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dupaty, 1)ufresne, Edwards, Fish, Foley, Fosdick, f1.iiller, Gastinel, Gorlinski, Harnan, Hart, allealy,Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, How-ell, Kavanagh, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Nor mand, Ong, Pintado, Poynot, Schroeder, Schnurr, Shaw, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer,. Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-58. rNAYs-Messrs. Barrett, Bell, Buckley, Campbell, Flagg, Flood, Gaidry, Geier, Howes, Knobloch, Morris, O Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pursell S., Seymour, Smith, Stock er, Stumpf, Sullivan, Terry —21. [The substitute was accordingly laid on the table.] Mr. GASTISJNELi-I move the Convention take a recess of fifteen minutes. Mr. HILLS-I have the floor and wish to offer a substitute, but if it is the wish of the Convention to take a recess, I will yield the floor. Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Pursell S., Schnurr, Spellicy, Smit h, Stocker. Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Waters —-36. NAYs —Mies srs. Abell, A wiail, Austin, Bailev, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Burke. Collin, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Dnane, Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Foley, Fosdick, Hart, Healy, Heard, Hills, Hire, Howell, Kavanamh, Mnaas, Mann. layer. Murphy E., Newell, Ong, Pintado, Schroeder, Seymour, Shaw, Stumpf Stine, S Wells. Wilson —-41. [The motion to reconsider was then carried:] YEAs —Messrs. Ariail, Aulstin, Baum, Bailey, Beauvais, B6fill, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Collin, Crozat, Cutler, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Fisha, Flagge, Fosley, Fosdick, Gadry, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Mayer, Murphy M. W., Newell, Ong, Pintado, Seymour, Shaw, Stumpf, Waters. Wenck, Wells, Wilson —-42. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Bell, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Davies, Decker, Dufresne, Flood, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Harnan, Healy, Howes, Maurer, Mlontamat, Morris, Murphy E., Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stocker, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry —-36. [During the call Messrs. Abell and Telrry explained their votes.] Mr. ABELL -— It is well known on this floor that I have advocated, with my whole soul, the appointment of the judges during good behavior. If we cannot have an appointment of that character, I care not what kind of an appointment we have, and there lbre vote no. Mr. TERRY —-I have a substitute to offer {or the article and amendment. anda shall vote no. [The motion was declared carried.] Mr. FOLEY —-I move that the rmendmnent be rejected. Mr. HILLS -— I second the motion. Mr. FOLEY —-I understand the gentleman has a substitute to offer, and with the con sent of my second I withdraw my motion. Mr. Msxs —-I renew the motion. [The'yeas and nays were ordered and the motion to reject carried.] YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Bai ley, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Du paty, Duane, Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Flood Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gaidry, Gorlinski, Hart, Healy, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, i i 354 I I AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 355 inferior courts, except justices of the peace, for a term of six years. [On motion, both substitute and amendm inent were tabled by a viva voce vote.] Mr. SMITH —I offer the following substitute: The judges of the supreme and inferior courts shall be appointed by the governor during the existence of the present war, and for two years thereafter; at the expiration of that time the judges of the Supreme Court shall be elected by the lower branch of the General Assembly, the judges of the inferior courts to be elected by the qualified voters of their respective districts, their term of office to be fixed by the Legislature. Mr. STOCKER-Before the vote is announced, I would ask the secretary if he has checked Mr. Mendiverri's, as although he is not present, some one answered to his Healy, Hart, Heard, Hire, Howell, Howes, name. Knobloch, Maas, Maurer,Montamat,Morris, SECRtrARY-NO, sir, I did nlot. I am Murphy M. W., Mayer, Normand, O'Conner, aware of the fact. Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Pursell S., ware o - e ac. Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer, Y.as —-Messrs. Abe ll, riail, Austin, BaiSullivan, Terry, Wernck, Wilson —57.ColnCrztCtlrDaisDuayEd Sullivan, Terry, Wenck, Wilson —57. ley, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, NAvYS-Messrs A- i. Bailey, Campbell Collin Crozat, Cutler Davies, Dupaty EdCazabat Elwards, 1isih, F'osdick, Gorlinski vwards. Fosdick, Fuller, Heard, Hills. Hire, Harnan" Henderson, Hills. Kavanalh, Mur-1 Howell. Kavanagh, Newell, Normand, Ong, phy Newell, Ong, Sc eder, Sh aw. Thorpe Waters, Wenck, Wells, WilShaw, Stocker,",. A,Thorpe, Waters, on N.Ys-Messis. Barrett, Bell, Buckley, Well 93Campbell. Cazal)at, Cook J. K., Cook T., Mr. STI\ER-I offer the following sutbsti- Decker,; Duane, Dufresne, Fish, Flagg, tute: Flood, Foley, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman The judges of the Supreme Court shall be Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy Harappointed for the term of years, and nan. Hart, Henderson, Howes Knobloch the judges of the inferior courts shall be Mas. Mann, Maurer, Montamat Morris appointed for the teim of years. IlMurphy E.. Murphy M. W., Mayer, O'Con When the first appointments are ma le ler, Or, Payne J. Pitado, Poynot Pur under this constitution, the chief justice cell J.. Pursel S., Schroeder, Schnurr Sey shall be commissioned for years, one mour. Smith, Spellicy, Stocker Stumpf Stiner, Staiiffer, Sullivan, Terry —52. of the associate justices for years, Ser, taffer, Sullivan, Terry 2 one for years, one for years [The mnotion to lay on the table was thereand one for years. fr lot The inferior judges shall be divided by ] lot into four classes, as nearly equal as can Mr. GOi,)MAN — I move the previous quesbe, and the judges of the first class shall be tion on the substitute. commissioned for years, those of the [Motion seconded.] second for years, and those of the third for years, and those of the BAn -— I offer the ollowing amend fourth for years. et to the bsite. PRESIt)E T-The previous question cuts Mr. MONTAMAT- off the following off all amendments and substitlutes. amendment: tMr. GOI.DMAX- -With the consent of my The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, except justices of the peace, s(con(l, withdraw it. shall be appointed by the governor, with Mir. IBAt f —-I offer the followi,ng: the consent of the Senate and House of Re- The judges both of the supreme and inpresentatives in joint session. The judges ferior courts shall be appointed by the of the Supreme Court shall hold their offices governor by and with the advice and confor a term of eight years, and those of the sent of the Senate.' The judges of the Su DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION preme Court shall hold their offices during a term of ten years, and those of the inferior courts during a term of seven years. Their terms shall commence with the date of their commission. Provided, That appointments made during the existence of the present rebellion shall not be construed as within the meaning of thi s article. The first appointment.s and confirmations under this article shall be made during the first session of the Legislature that may be held after the restoration of peace. SA.TURDAY, June 4, 1864. [The Convention met pursuant to adjournment. The roll was called and the following members answered to their names:] Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Austin, Balch, Barrett, Baum, Bell, Bofill, Bromley, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cook J.K., Crozat, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Edwards, Flood, Foley, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Healy, Hart, Heard, Knobloch, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Pintado, Poynot, Purcell Jno., Pursell S., Schroeder, Smith, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Wenck, Wilson and Mr. President-53. [There being no quorum, the sergeant-atarms was directed to bring in absent mem Mr. BEI.hL —I move to lay on the table. YEA,s - Messrs. Abell, Ariail, B arrett, Bell, Buckley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Decker, Duane, Dufiesne, Dupaty, F is h, Flagg, Flood, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Harnan, Howes, Knobloch, Maurer, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W. Maye r, Normand, OoConner, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Seymour, Smith, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Waters, Wells and Wilson —45. NAYs —Austin. Bailey, Baum, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Edwards, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Healy, Hart, Heard, Hills, Hire, Howell, Kavanagh, Maas, Mann, Murphy E., Newell, Ong, Pintado, Schroeder, ,Schnurr, Shaw, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Thorpe and Wenck-37. Messrs. Cook T., D)upaty, Flagg, Hills, Hire, MNoris, Ong, Schnmrrr, Seymour, Shaw, Spellicy, Stocker and Waters entered and took their seats. The president having temporarily vacated the chair, on motion of Mr. Waters. the secretary was called to the chair, and on motion of Mr. Gorlinski, Mr. Hills was chosen to preside as president pro tem. The convention then adjourned until Monday next at 12 M.] [Amendment tabled.] [Amendment tabled.] on motion of Mr. Gorlinski, Mr. Hills was Mr. BAUM-I move to strike out of Mr. chosen to preside as president pro temn. Smith's substitute all after "appointed by The convention then adjourned until the governor." Monday next at 12 M.] [Laid on the table by viva voce vote.] Mr. BAUM-I move to adjourn. MONDAY, June (, 1864. [Motion lost —ayes 36. nays 44.] [The Convention met and was called to Mr. T.ERR~-1 move the adoption of the Mr. TERRY-I move the adoption of the order, pursuant to adjournment, Hon. E. H. [Substitute adopted. ] Durell, president, in the chair, and the fol lowing members present, viz:] YEAs-Messrs. Barrett, Baum, Bell, Buck-loigmmespeetvz: YEAS-Messrs. Barrett, aum, Bell, Buck- Messrs. Abell, Ariail, Balch. Baum, Bell, ley, Campbell, Cook J. K., Cook T., Decker, Bromley, rott, Burk, Campbell ook T. Bromley, Brott, Burke, Campbell, Cook T., )Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Cook J. K. Crozat Davies Edwad Ennis Cook J. K., Crozat, Davies, Edwards, Ennis. Foley, Gastinel, Geier, Goldman, Gorliuski, Flagg, Foley, Fuller Gier Goldman Gor Flagg, Foley, FuLler. Geier, Goldman, GorGruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Ilarnan, Hart, linski. Gruneberg Gaidry Iart, Heard Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Montamat, Henderson. Howell, Kavanagh, Kuobloch, Morris, Murphy M. W., Mayer, O'Conner, Maas, Maurer Murphy E Murphy M Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J.. Pursell Mayer, Nerwell, Normand E, 0Conner PinS., Schnurr, S eymour, Smith, Spellicy, tado, Poynot, Pursell S., Schroeder Schnurr, Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry- Smith, Spellicy, Stumpf- tiner, Stauffer, Smith, Spellicy, Stum'pf, Stiner, Stauffer, 47. Wates Wilson — NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Arlail, Austin, Bai- Waters, Wison —5 I[There being no quiortum, the sergeantley, Beauvais, Bofill, Bromley, Burke, Collin, [There being no qorm, the sergeantCazabat, Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Dupaty, at-arms was directel to bring in absent Edwards, Fosdick, Fuller, Heard, Hender- members. son, Hills, Hire, Howell, Kavanagh, Mann, After some delay. the followingmembers Murphy E., Newell, Normand, Ong, laintado Shaw, Stumpf, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck, appeared and took their seats: Messr. Wells, Wilson-36. Austin, Bailey. Barrett, Bofil, Dufresne, 356 Mr. HILTS-1 Move we adjourn. (The Convention then adjourned -until 12 m. of Saturday, June 4.] 'i I 1. ber.-,. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Dupaty, Fish, Flood, Fosdiek, Gastinel, Harnan, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Mann, Montamat, Morris, Orr, Paine J. T., Purcell J., Seymour, Shaw, Stocker, Sullivan, Terry and Thorpe-27. The president announced a quorum present. [The minutes of the previous day were read.] Mr. HILIS-The secretary is in error in stating there that I took the chair. A motion was first made by Mr. Sullivan, and seconded by Mr. Orr, that the secretary take the chair. Mr. SULLIVAN-bThe gentleman is mistaken, I never made such a motion. Mr. ORR —I seconded the mo tion, an d am w illing to have it sp read upon the minutes. Mr. HiLeS —I beg the gentleman' s p ardon, it was Mr. Waters who m ade the m otion. [The minutes. corrected as suggested, were adopted.] PRESIDE:T-The unfinished business now in order is the report of the Committee on the Juidiciary. Mr. ABEI.L —I believe the police resolution was made the order of the day. Mr. GOLDMXN~X —I desire to call attention to the rule, Mr. President, that unfinished business comes uip first. Mr. SmrrH -Is it necessary to require a suspension of the rules to take up that resolution? PRESn,8)ET —I am well aware that that resolution was made the order of the day, but the Convention subsequently passed a resolution that this question should be disposed of before anything else was taken [Mr. ABELL —I only desire to make one more Mr. STAry rer-t I call the gentleman to order. Mr. ABELL- -I desire to remark that irnder Mr. Thorpe's resolution this is unfinished business,. Saturday being set apart or miscellaneous businuess, this matte r is le ft over, and is. consequently, the unfinis hed business of Saturday, and must come up now. Mr. HENDERSsON-The rules are that ullnfinished business must be taken up first. On Friday, unfinished business, the juidiciary report. On Saturday there was no special business. One day having inter-vened on which there was no busine ss uponi which action was had, this resolution cannot be unfinished business. PRESIDEN-T-The order of the day is article 12 of the judiciary report. Mr. SUI,LIVA.-W I would like to know, then, when my resolution is going to come up. We have legislated long enough for rich men, and now I want to legislate some for poor men. Mr. ABELL —Mr. President, I think this question should come up; I believe it is in order and I PRESIDENT-Very well, take your appeal. Mr. ABELL-I most respectfully appeal from the decision of the chair. [The ayes and noes were called.] Mr. HENDERSON-Mr. President, I believe there is no quorum, and ask a call of the House before the vote is declared. [The secretary called the roll. Mr. Cutlier entered during the roll-call, when it was ascertained that there were 76 members present. Mfr. Cutler, by permission of the Convention, cast his vote, and the House refused to sustain the chair. PRESl)EN', —The order of the day is Mr. Sullivan's resolution relative to the police. [The secretary read the resolution.] Mr. FOLEY-I wish to amend line sevenl by striking out " $275" as salary of chief of police and inserting "$200 " instead. Mr. ORR —Mr. President, I wish to amend as follows: Provided, That the compensation of all foremen, mechanics, cartmen and laborers employed on public works under the gov lip. Mr. TjoirRE-I introduced a resolution, which was passed, under which, I think, this must lie over till next Saturday. PRESIDENT —Mr. Secretary, read Mr. Thorpe's resolution. [The secretary read:] Mr. ABELL -The police bill was fixed for 1 o'clock to-day, and previous to this — PRt SlDresNT —-I know this very wel l; but this resolution covers this case. Mr. STAUFFER —Rile XXXI provides that this question cannot come up until unfinished business is disposed of. 358 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION this bill, and my reason is that I fear it will have some effect upon the main question before the House. Now, sir, this bill that has been offered —or we might call it an article, to be placed in the constitution at such place as may be proper-is one in which I feel that there is no trifling interest involved. The interests involved are really greater than can be presented to this Convention at this time. It will be contended that this Convention has no such power. I think we have the power. I think we have power to make and to destroy corporations, to control them and to direct them; and unless we do it I think our work here will be very ineffectually done. I contend, sir, that the corporation of New Orleans has wholly failed in every respect to furnish any protection to one hundred and fifty thousand permanent residents, and perhaps three times as manytransient persons. We have been beaten down, and thugged, and oppressed in every way. The city has totally failed to perform its functions, and even now the little protection we have is due to the Federal arms and police. We have had no protection previously for twelve years. Now, sir, I ask, when a corporation has wholly failed to perform its functions; to secure to the people their rights, their safety, their personal property; I ask, whether it is not the duty of the Con vention to prepare a proper safeguard against a recurrence of the occurrences that have taken place. I am not joking about this, sir; it is no matter of joke, and I intend to fortify, I intend to instrucet. If necessary I will repose, and renew the attack from time to time, until we secure protection. And I know of no way to insutie to the people that protection which is their right, except by the very mode attempted here. Talk about our want of power. Admit that this Convention has no power to afford protection to one hundred and fifty thousand citizens —and in four or five years it will be four or five hundred thousand. It is simply absurd. If we have not this power, we have no power whatever. Without remarking upon the objects contemplated by the amendment of the gentleman, (Mr. Orr,) I regret exceedingly that he offered it, because I believe the design ernments of the State of Louisiana, city of New Orleans, and Police Juries of the various loyal parishes of the State, shall also be increased to not less than the following rates, viz: All foremen not less than $3 50 per day. All mechanics not l ess than $3 00 per day. All cartmen not l ess than $3 00 per day. All laborers not less than $2 00 per day. Mr. THORPE-I second Mr. Orr's amendment. Mr. PURSELL-I move to lay the whole matter on the table. Mr. SULLIVAN~ —This motion is out of order. It has already been decided. The motion was made the other day and voted down. Mr. ABELL-I wish tlo state that when this resolution was offered there was a motion made to lay it on the table and it was lost. Now. sir, they cannot lay the resolution on the table. They can lay the amendment to the amendment on the table, and the amendment itself, but a motion cannot be entertained to lay the resolution. Mr. HEARD-Mr. President, I move that the resolution and the amendments be re to no. [The result of the vote was as fbllows — yeas 9, nays 66.] Mr. POY.XOT —I move the adoption of the amendment. MIr. ABET l — I wish to know if that is open to debate, and if so, I desire to say a word or two. [Voices: "ILouder.?'] I am,low of speech, and it sometimes takes me soome time to get my voice up so as to lie heard by the House. - I regret very much that the gentleman has offered his amendment to I i I I I i I jected. PF-ESIDENT-IT had passed out of my mind that the motion to lay Mr. Sullivan's resolution on the table was made and lost. Now the motion is to lay the amendment of the amendment on the table. [The ayes and noes wete called. and the secretary proceeded to call the roll.] Mr. BURKF,-Before the vote is announced, I desire to change my vote from yes to no. Mr. WA-TEw-, —l change my vote from yes to?W. Mr. RENDFI?SO.X,-l change my vote from yes to 710. -Nfr. BARRETT —I change my vote from yes AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 359 was to kill the bill. Notwithstanding all this, I hope that this Convention will at once vote upon the bill. They voted against laying it on the table by a very large majority. I hope that when they come to the amendment they will vote it down. Men engaged on the public works are differently situated from policemen. They can go where they please, and demand such remuneration as their services are worth; their wages are not fixed by law, and they can take as much as their employers will agree to pay. But the salary of the policeman is fixed. He cannot take more than the law allows him. Let him be caught taking more, and he is at once censured or discharged. When he is discharged there is n ot an other c orpora tion t o emplo y him. Th e w o rkman comman ds his own hire, and can put it where it will be of most value to him. Such are the facts, and I trust the Convention will look at the matter in its true light, and vote down this amendment, and let the article of the report stand upon its merits. Mr. CAZXBAT-I have not occupied the attention or time of the Convention for several days. I have not participated in the discussions of the questions that have come up, because I felt a reluctance to do so. At the beginning of the Convention I offered a resolution prohibiting the introduction of any resolution which was not directly connected with the amendment of the constitution, but it was voted down by a large majority. If it had been adopted, we would not have been where we kre now, in respect to the accomplishment of our business. Mr. MONTAMAT —I rise to a point of order. The gentleman is not discussing the police bill at all. Mr. CAZtART —I have never interrupted any gentleman on the floor; but when members were speaking I begged the Convention to allow them to continue, and speak till doomsday if they chose, and I have uniformly exhibited to the Convention the courtesy that was due. It is said I am not touching the question under dis. cussion. There is no power inside or outside of this Convention that can make me deviate from the path I deem true and right —n o power to make me adopt a resolution which is contrary, or in oppo.sition to the object we have in view. The minutes of our proceedings will show that I h ave advocated the revision a nd amendmCent of the constitution, an d that alone. I wish the poor man to be paid f or his laborf I am a po or man, an d s ympa thize with that class. I know what it is to be cast on the world friendless, homeless and penniless. I wish the police officers to be well paid also. [A voice "nvote for it.' ] I sha ll do no such th ing; because we have no right to bring such a proposition before this body. If the resolution had recom me nde d to the mayor o r proper auth or ities such a course, I would have supported it che erfully. But since you seem determined to legislate, contrary to your right and duty, upon an y and every outside matter n ot connected wi th the amendment and re visi on of the constitution, let me warn you now. Beware, beware, I sa y, how you trifle wi th the majesty of an outraged people. In these days of political and social re volution, the day may come when you will be sorry for your arbitrary acts in this Convention. Mr. ToRPE-Since I have been here I have endeavored twice to get a resolution before t o this body that w ould f acilitate the business o f the Conven tion. The first I introduced some fie ve weeks ago, but by the decision of the chair d I founad I haed failed in accomplishing my object. On the 31st of May, I introduced a resolution that the order of th e day shoul d be immediatel y t ake n up after the minutes were read and accepted. The president decided this mornilng-and properly, I believe-that the police bill had no place here. Now, gentlemen of the Convention, I have a few plain words to offer on this question. We have not assembled here for this miscellaneous business, and I say it is unjust to gentlemen who have come here with the sincere purpose of regenerating Louisiana and amending the constitution. These outrageous interruptions and irrelevant business are an insult to good order, good taste and the transaction of business. [Applause.] I say that any man that goes into the streets of New Orleans and tells the people I am opposed to the firemen, states what is abso I i DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION than they were before. To-day the mass of the policemen are disloyal in their hearts, and lose no opportunity to strike down a Federal soldier. I despise and hate this police, and have done all I could to put it down, though there are are some noble ex ceptions, but you cannot put it down. You cannot introduce the proposition of its re form into this Convention, and cannot have anything to do with it legitimately and hon orably, therefore I wish to leave it out. There is but one subject outside of the legitimate duty of the Convention that can be legitimately attended to, and that is the cause of humanity-the cause of God. In voting on the resolution appropriating sums for charitable purposes, although the same rule applies, but the necessity was so great as to warrant in overstepping it. The day is nearly past, and if the president had been sustained in his decision, it would not have been lost, and several thousand dol lars would not have been added to the debt of the State and the credit of the DE'RO~ —Mr. President, the question of adopting tliis constitution is of more importance than the consideration of send ing members to Congress; for without it, we can have no members to Congress. The question of re-districting the State, &c., can be disposed of in a very few minutes, but after this Conve ntion h as had a whole day in which to carefully investigate this constitution a as amended, it would be better to take it up at once and adopt t s it as a whole without taking it up section by section. The last proclamation of President Lincoln has been misunderstood by some members of this body, who think he says: "'Come into the Union with or without slavery." He does not say any such thing, but is misunderstood, and that to-day is our time of action. Every question has been discussed and passed its third reading and we have now come to a final action. Errors have been pointed out by the committee and corrected. Of course, my friend on my right, (Mr. Abell), sees errors from Alpha to Omega, for he cannot agree with this constitution any way. Why does he seek to postpone action now? Because he is for slavery, come weal or woe. The language of the gentleman on my left, (Mr. Cutler,) in regard to offering riders, &c., does not show any ground for postponement, and I submit, as a matter of policy, that unless this constitution is at once adopted as a whole, we shall have the constitution of 1852 at last, and not that of 1864. Get through with this and then bring up the ordinance. Certain officers who have control of the treasury have something to say. Having finished the constitution, our sitting here longer is attended with great expenditure. We have now nothing else to do but to approve or disapprove it as a whole. In regard to the matter relating to contracts of the corporation of New Orleans, let that be brought up and decided upon at once. Mr. ABELL-Mr. President and gentlemen, I certainly have no right to oppose this matter. The gentleman, (Mr. Henderson,) has seven amendments to offer, but I have none and don't expect to have any. Still I think that in fairness we should have an opportunity to consider of this report. I say also that the language of the president's last proclamation requires consideration, and that if we adopt it we had better 583 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION my sentiments or the casting of my votes here, I claim the right to express my views f and give my votes, and I am willing to take the consequences. I willingly leave the judgment of my conduct to my fellow citizens and posterity. I care not for the expressions private or public that may be made, I care not for the vindictive charges that may be made, I shall pursue the even tenor of my course, guided by my own con victions. Now, sir, as the reason of my opposition to this ordinance, let me call the attention of this Convention to a document which I presume is not yet abrogated-is not yet obsolete, and which is the highest authority in this government, the highest authority on this earth, to sustain which is this mighty struggle carried on. It is, sir, for the protection of this constitution of the United States that the army of the country is fighti n g. Section 4 reads: "The times; places and manner of holding elections for senators and representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof." That is an article in the constitution of the United States, and I presume this Convention does not contend it is either amended or abrogated. Every man here is under a solemn and specific oath to support the constitution of the United States. This ordinance professes to fix the time for holding the election for representatives to Congress. The question is: are we the Legislature of Louisiana? [Cries of " no, no."] Is it properly within our province? I trust a majority will answer no on the question of the adoption of this ordinance. Mr. THOMAS-Mr. President, this is a question in which I have always felt the deep est interest, and it is one, sir, that much affects the people of Louisiana. It is of the most vital importance that we should be recognized and represented in the Congress of this nation if we intend to remain a part and parcel of thisgreat government. [Applause.] In 1862, the then militarv governor of this State, could call an election for representatives to the Congress of the Un ited States, but in 1863 that call was not made, and to-day with all our power with the loyalty that Louisiana has shown to the Union, we are without any represen dissolve. But we are an assemblage of the people of the State, as far as the Federal arms have gone, and in the making of the organic laws of the State are independent of the president. W h e have mad e a consti tu tion, some parts of which have been framed in haste, which the comm it tee have examined and corrected-requiring a week in wh ich to do so-so that it is not unrea sonable for us to ask for two days in which to weigh over the whole as revised. [Motion to lay on the table the motion for reconsideration lost.] Mr. ABELL-I move to amend by insert ing in the following section " fourth " after " fifth,"' and striking out all after " Orleans." SEc. 2. Be itfurther ordained, That until otherwise directed by law the State shall be divided into five congressional districts as follows, and the qualified electors of each district shall choose one representative: The First Congressional District shall comprise the parishes of St. Bernard and Plaquemines, the right bank of the parish of Orleans, the Ninth, Eighth, Seventh, Sixth, Fifth Representative Districts of the parish of Orleans, and that portion of the Fourth Representative District of the parish of Orleans which is included between St. Louis, Rampart and Canal streets, and the Lake Pontchartrain. Mr. CAZABAT-I move that be laid on the table. [Motion carried on rising vote-yeas 44, nays 33.] Mr. HOWELL —Mr. President, it is a part of my nature to reverence law, and not only to reverence and respect it, but to obey it. Whenever a law is once established by the people, whether it be a bad or a good law, it is a part of the duty of every good citizen to obey that law until it is amended or repealed. It is that principle, sir, that has always guided my actions during my whole life since I have arrived at the age of discretion. Whatever may be the opinion of individuals, I profess, sir, to be guided by that principle in all cases. It has been the rule of my action in this Convention, and so long as my reason is spared, shall ever be the rule of my action. Upon that principle I now rest my views against this ordinance. [Applkuse.] Whatever may be the consequences to my individual person for the expression of 584 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 585 floor, that the law should be reverenced and respected until it is changed, let me say to the gentleman who utters such sentiments, that no man has a higher regard for the law than he who now addresses this Convention. I know that, in these times, there are many words and phrases in the constitution of the United States, which were written and placed there, that might have been more explicit. It is only that the Legislature of the State may provide the times and places for the election of senators and representatives. It might have gone on and said a Convention of the people, and it has never been denied. It cannot be successfully controverted that the people, in their majesty and might, in Convention assembled as we are, have a right to pass any law they choose. We are legally here to enact the law of the land, and we are the people themselves, and every act we do is the act of the people themselves. Then why, I ask, have we not the authority? I say we have, and let us use it. Let Louisiana send some good men to the Congress of the United States, who may attend to her interests. She has many interests, and, if we sit here idle without any exertion, we shall soon be left out and all we have done here will be ignored. If we study our own interests, let us have a representation in Congress at its next meeting; and let Louisiana cast her vote for president, and come back and become, as she rightfully belongs. one of that bright galaxy of the stars df the Union. Mr. CAZkBAT —-Mr. - President: I have uniformly expressed and entertained the opinion that the powers of this Convention are limited, because it was convened for the sole and exclusive purpose of amending and revising the constitution of Louislana. I am therefore inclined to conclude that the view taken by Judge Howell in regard to this question is correct and proper. But this question is one of great import, and as we have no Legislature in session at present, the pI iX-ose(I ordinance becomes a matter of necessity sand policy; otherwise we must be deprived and prevented from sending senators and representatives to the next national Congress. tation in Congress, and the people of the North do not yet know, in the mass, whether we have any districts in Louisiana that are strictly loyal to the government. I know these things. I have seen them and told them in the past two months. On many occasions and by many prominent men holding high positions in the government, I have been asked: " Why are you not represented in Congress? Is it because you have no loyal men?" I said no, but the masses could not understand and fully appreciate that. This is a question therefore that demands our most serious consideration. If we have the power and right to say that an election shall soon be held, that we, representing the people of Louisiana, shall have our representatives in the Congress of the United States, I say in the name of God let us do it! [Applause.] Let us have our men there that will advocate the interests of Louisiana. The question, then, is confined to this: have we a right to divide the State of Louisiana into electoral districts and order an election? There is but one law that forbids it, and that is the one quoted by the gentleman who has just addressed the Convention. In the constitution of the United States the word "Legislature" is used. Have we power to perform the functions of the Legislature? Can we enact a law? If not, then, gentlemen, I tell you, nine-tenths of your labor here is all in vain. If you come to any other conclusion, what becomes of the ordinance of emancipation? What becomes of all the laws we have enacted if they have not the force of laws? For one, I believe that the Convention can exercise any power which a Legislature might. I believe we may enact any law that any Legislature could enact, over and above the constitution. Why, sir, is not that authority-is not the lesser included in the greater? We have come here. delegated by the people, to make the fundamental law; and can we not pass an ordinary statute and provide what the law shall be until the Legislature otherwise provides? Most clearly we can, to my mind, and have the right. As to the remarks that have been made by the last gentleman on the 74 DEIBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION we have a Legislature-if we are not now coming back to our normal state and to the Union —if we are not re-creating the State of Louisiana? I would ask that gentleman if, when a territory passess from its territorial condition into the full grown condition of a State, the constitutional assembly called together to represent the people in their majesty, to form a constitution for the future State, does not at the same time determine when the representatives shall be elected and when the Legislature shall come together and when it shall elect senators of the U- S.? If it has not been the case even before the Legislature has assembled in a new State, that the constitution of that State was accepted by the government of the United States on one day and two senators representing the new State entered the senatorial chamber on the next? Let us then not deceive ourselves; let us take the word according to its meaning. It means that we have the power to determine the time, when and where the senators and representatives shall be elected. No one can misunderstand that; a child can comprehend it. The principle laid down by the gentleman would ignore the action of the Senate in regard to three-fourths of the territories which have been erected into States, since the first adoption of the constitution. The gentle man could have given it small consideration when he made the remark. This Convention represents the people and is the highest legislative body that can meet together upon the soil of Louisiana. It has the power, in as far as it keeps within a true republican form of government as secured by the constitution, to do just what it pleases. It is answerable for it merely in the individual capacity of its members when it dissolves and they go back to the people. Mr. ItENlDtoS- Mr. President. the learned gentleman who has just spoken has very appropriately and truly said, that States have been admitted into the Union one day and the next day senators have taken their seats. I will tell my friend, Mr. Howell, of a stronger case. The State of Iowa asked for admission into the Union, and her senators and representatives were received before the constitution was placed S ection 4, article 1, of the const itu tion of the Uni ted States, conceded to be the supreme l aw o f the land, decla re s th at b the times, places, and manner of holding elections for senators and representatives shall be prescr ibed to each State bty the Legislature the eof," &c. But you will admi t that the anomalous co ndition of affairs produc ed in this c ountry by the rebellion, never wa s cont em plat ed or provided for by th i e wise minds who framed that C onsti tution. This Convention can be considered to all intents and purpo s es the Legislature, or law making power of the State; nay more, it is the creating power that brings the Legislature into exis tence, and if the Legislature, the mere creatur e of the C o nvention, is empowe red to provide for elections to C ongress, is not the same power and authority grant ed by implication to this Convention. In my humble opinion it becomes the duty and right of this body, under the circumstances, to proceed in this matter, and take the necessary steps to secure, if possible, the State representation in the next Congress, in order to let Louisiana resume her place into the Union, as "thefirst returning State, whose voice is Liberty," If, this measure is adopted, it will no doubt be sanctioned and cheerfully approved by all loyal citizens; if, on the contrary, it is rejected and defeated, it will give the utmost encouragement and satisfaction to the spirit of opposition that seems to prevail here and elsewhere. Mr. DuRELL-Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, I will not detain you long. I merely wish to answer in a few words, the argument of my most learned friend on the left, (Mr. Howell,) who holds a judicial position, and what he says carries great weight with it. The gentleman has read a clause from the constitution of the United States which says that the time, place and manner of holding the elections for senators and represntatives shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof. Now, what is the meaning of the word "Legislature?" It is the law-making power for the time being —nothing else. [Applause.] I would ask the gentleman if 5 86 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. vention of Louisiana. Certainly we can postpone it. I do not consider it of such wonderful moment whether we do it now, but yet, as in regard to any other good thing, there is no use of postponing it. This brings us to consider the powers of this Convention, and to the question, whether, because in the order calling this Convention, certain reasons were given for doing so, our authority is thereby limited? I contend that when we were called together-no matter how or by whom-we were elected by the people of Louisiana and are a Convention with all the powers of a representative body. Because the order stated that we were called to revise and amend the constitution of Louisiana, we are not the less the representatives of the people of this State, and we must find our powers in what the conventions of the people have formerly done. Now, sir, they have in a multitude of cases, acted upon their inherent legislative power as subordinate to the power of making a constitution. If a convention has the right to make a constitution, has it not much more the lesser right of passing a statute? A constitution, when ratified, is irrepealable, except in a certain form, whereas a statute can be repealed by a Legislature three months afterwards. I undertake to say, that few conventions have sat in the United States which have not, in one form or another, exercised this inherent legislative power. So much for the right of this Convention to pass the ordinance in question. I claim that the question is not in relation to this, but in regard to the amendment which has been offered. Mr. Abell desires that the whole of the Fourth Representative District shall be included in the First Representative District, ns was formerly the case. In 1851 Louisiana was divided into four congressional districts, but under the apportionment made by Congress in 1861 it was enacted that the State of Louisiana should have five. Is it any reason that because Louisiana is entitled to five districts that the district of the gentleman (Mr. Abell) is to be entitled to the same territorial extent be fores Is one-fifth to be as large as onefoulrth?! betfore the people fo r ratification. That constitution was rejected, but the senators re tained their seats. In regard to the la nguag e o f the constitution, th e time, place a nd mann er of holding ele ctions are thre e distinct things; and when the question came up before Congress whether a State c oul d divide itself into districts, it was discussed and admitted that t he division into dis t ricts had nothing to do with time, pla ce or manner, a nd w as a m atter to b e l eft wi th the State. As respects our action here on these ma t ters, n o objec tion was made to that upon the Baltimore Convention. It was considered a political necessity, because we had no Legislature and the delegates w ere received from th e Conven tion n ot from th e LegislatWre. I m ai n tain we hav e a right to insert this ordin anc e f or the t ime bei ng; there being no Legislat ure we take its p lace, and this is the doctrine of Gov. Hahn and Gen. Banks. M r. SHAW-I b eli eve if this bill is passed, i t should not be p a ssed to-day, but should be w ell exami ned. W e can take it up at any time wh en the Hous e is not ready to act upon any other m atter. The argum ent, thus far, has b een prin c ipally i n regar d t o the power of this body to pass this bill, as it has been contended that under t he constitu tion of the United States, only the Legislature has power to fix the ti me, place, &c.. of election to Congress. We must go back and ascertain what is the meaning, technic al and legal, of the term "1 Legislature." The House and Senate do not cons titute, alone, the Legislature, but th e concurrence of the execu tiv e i s necessary, except after a veto by the latter. The constitution of the United States does not fix what shall be the form of the legislative body, and therefore we can adopt any that we please, as long as we adhere to a republican form of government. No General Assembly is in existence in this State, and we must take such an interpretation of the word " Legislature," as will, in all probability, meet the intention of the framers of the constitution. That, as our learned president has said, means the lawmaking powrer of the State for the time being, which happens to be now the Con 587 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. ABELL-Another parish, as I under- dent. The secretary called the roll and stand, belonged to our district, and, if so, the following members answered to their the cutting of it off would be curtailing it names:] illiberally. i Messrs.-Abell, Austin, Barrett, Baum, Mr. SHAw-Instead of curtailing your Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Buckley, tincreasing them. The Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. rights this is in fact increasing them.eK., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, greater the territorial extent of a congres- Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, sional district, the greater will be its pop- Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, ulation and number of voters, and the less Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, '... Gaidry, He~ly, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henthe power and representation of each indi- Gaidry, Hily, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Hen derson, Hills, Hire, Howell, Howes, Kavvidual voter. But the gentleman is mis- anagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, taken. No parish has been cut off; only Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morsuch portion of the Fourth (State) Repre- ris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, err, Payne J., sentative District as was necessary to Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S. equalize the population. Schroeder, chnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Mr. CurLER-Mr. President and gentle- Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, men, this matter is one of serious impor- Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-86. tance, in my opinion, and deserves the W tance, i. my opinion, and deserves the [The minutes of yesterday's proceedings careful consideration of every member of wee rda oedg this Convention. I do not know but that I werer da te] PRESIDF,ENT —The order of the day is the shall vote for the entire bill I do not knob Ishall vote fe i;t it d. nct onstitution as reported by the Committee kno w but that I shall vo te against it; a on Arrangement The secretary will read on Arrangement. The secretary will read any rate I want time to consider it, as it, pausing at the close of each article to every member of this Convention must, to give gentlemen a n opp ortunity for any compare votes, lines, &c., and see where we riders which they may propose to offer. stand. Under these circumstances, I sug- [The secretary read the preamble, viz gest-that it would be justice towards all the ece the pa e iz of us to allow time for consideration thati We, the people of the State of Louisiana, of us, to allow time for consideration thatdo ordain and establish this constitution. we may not vote hastily-that we postpone Mr. HENDERSON-I offer the following as -not until to-morrow, because then comes a substitute. I merely desire to insert the up the adoption of the constitution as a boundaries ofthe State whole-but until Saturday next; I there- We, the representatives of the people of fore now make that motion. the State of Louisiana in Convention assem Mr. MO-NTAMT —Mr. President and gen- b';d, do define the boundaries of said State tlemen, I am in ftvor of this ordinance; for, to be as follows: Beginning at the mouth although some gentlemen say that w have of the river Sabine, thence by a line to be lalthough some gentlemen say that we have twn along the middle of said river, inno right to legislate, I contend that we eluding all its islands, to the thirty-second have and have already done so. I, for my degree of latitude, thence due north to the part, want to see Louisiana represented in northernmost part of the thirty-third degree the ext Congress; we of the First Dis- of north latitude; thence along the said parallel of latitude to the river Mississippi; trict mean to run my friend, (Mr. Abell) thence down the said river to the river iberand elect him too, to protect the interests ville and from thence along the middle of of Louisiana and have the owners of slaves said river and Lakes Maurapas and Pontcompensated. [Applause.]. chartrain to the Gulf of Mexico; thence bounded by the said Gulf to the place of [Mr. Cutler's motion was carried.] beginning, including all islands within three Mr. BEAuvArsI-S-I move we adjourn to 12 leagues of the coast-and do ordain and es-. of Thursday, the 21st inst. tablish this constitution. [The motion was carried.] Mr. BEAUvAIS —Mr. President, I rise to a point of order; in my opinion it is too late now to offer any changes, as I understand a TUrusDAY, July 21, 1864. committee was appointed not for the pur rthe Convention met pursuant to adjourn- pose of making any changes in the constiment, and was called to order by the presi- tation, but of fixing the different articles 588 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 589 under their proper titles. Now, sir, under I Mr. CUTLER- I desire to propose an our rules, we have decided to adopt or we amendment. I think it improper to allude have adopted the different parts of the con- to the war or rebellion in the constitution, stitution, and I think it too late now to and therefore move to strike ont "with alter or change it. We must either adopt safety to the electors." or reject it as it now stands, and although I Mr. SHAw-I second the motion. would be glad to change some parts of it, I [The motion was carried. do not think we have a right at this stage Articles 8, 9, 10 and 11, were adopted of the proceedings to open up questions without amendment or debate.] that have been settled under the rules we Art. 12. Until an apportionment shall be have adopted after long and tedious debate. made, and elections held under the same, If we do this I see no prospect of our ad- in accordance with the first enumeration to jouIment for thiIe nopoext two months be made, as directed in article 10, the re presentation in the Senate and House of PRESIDENT-The gentleman's remarks are Representatives shall be as follows: addressed to the good sense of this Conven- For the parish of Orleans, forty-four retion. But he is wrong in supposing that it presentatives, to be elected as follows: is too late now to take any other action First Representative District..........3 Second do....................... 5 than to adopt or reject as a whole. It is Sehird do "' Third do......................7 customary to amend by way of a rider until Fourth do...................... 3 the last moment, and if the Convention Fifth do...................... 4 shall choose to sit here for two or four Sixth do..................... 2 Seventh do...................... 3 months it is their right to do so, and neither SEighth do.....................3 Eighth do....................... 3 you nor I can help it. Ninth do...................... 4 Mr. BAuM —I move its rejection. Tenth do...................... 8 Mr. CUTLER —Mr. President- Orleans, Right Bank.................. 2 Mr. HILLS-I move the previous question. For the parish of Livingston.......... 1 Mr. HiLLs —I move the previous question. d.S.Tmay..... do. St. Tammany.......... 1 [The motion was carried and the substi- do. Pointe Coupe......... 1 tute of Mr. Henderson rejected. do. St. Martin............. 2 Articles 1 to 6 inclusive, were read and do. Concordia............ -1 do. Madison..............1 adopted, without amendment or debate. do. Franklin..... 1 The secretary read:] do. St. Mary............. 1 Art. 7. Representatives shall be chosen do. Jefferson.............. 3 on the first Monday in November every two do. Plaquemines........... 1 years, and the election shall be completed do. St. Bernard............1 in one day. The General Assembly shall do. St. Charles............1 meet annually on the first Monday in Jan- do. St. John the Baptiste... 1 uary, unless a different day be appointed do. St. James.............. 1 by law, and their sessions shall be held at do. Ascension.............1 the seat of government. There shall also do. Assumption...........3 be a session of the General Assembly in the do. Lafourche............. 3 city of New Orleans, beginning on the first do. Terrebonne........... 2 Monday of October, eighteen hundred and do. Iberville.............. 1 sixty-four; and it shall be the duty of the do. West Baton Rouge...... 1 governor to cause a special election to be do. East Baton Rouge...... 2 held for members of the General Assembly, do. West Feliciana........ 1 in all the parishes where the same may be do. East Feliciana.......... 1 held with safety to the electors, on the day do. St. Helena............. 1 of the election for ratification or rejection do. Washington............ 1 of this constitution-to be valid in case of do. Vermillion............. I1 ratification; and in other parishes or dis- do. Lafayette.............. 2 tricts he shall cause elections to be held as do. St. Landryv............. 4 soon as it may become practicable, to fill do. Calcasien.............. 2 the vacancies for such parishes or districts do. Avoyelles............ 2 in the General Assembly. The term of do. Rapides............... 3 office of the first General Assembly shall do. Natchitoches.......... 2 expire as though its members had been do. Sabine................ 1 elected on the first Monday of November, do. Caddo................. 2 eighteen hundred and sixty-three. l do. De Soto................ 2 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION L borne and Winn shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of Natchitoches, Sabine, DeSoto and Caddo shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of St. Landry, Lafayette and Calcasieu shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of St. Martin and Vermillion shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of St. Mary shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Rapides and Avoyelles shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. Mr. SHAw-I move to change the repre sentation of the senatorial districts of the parish of Orleans so that the district com posed of the First and Fourth Districts of the city of New Orleans shall elect five in stead of four senators, and the district com posed of the Second and Third Districts shall elected four ir stead of three senators. Mr. FOLi,EY-I move the adoption of the rider. [The motion was carried. Article 13 was adopted as reported. The secretary read:] Art. 14. Every white male who has at tained the age of twenty-one years, and who has been a resident of the State twelve months next preceding the election, and the last six months thereof in the parish in which he offers to vote, and who shall be a citizen of the United States, shall have the right of voting. Mr. CUTLER-Mr. President, I have no rider prepared in writing, but I desire to speak to you and the Convention on the propriety of making a change in this article. This requires a man not only to live one year in the State, but six months in one particular parish before he can vote. Now, I think it is enough if he has been a year in the State. If he is a voter in the State, he ought to be allowed to, vote anywhere in the State. Mr. ABELL —-That would allow the country parishes to send in voters to carry elections in New O r lean s. Mr. CUTLER —It will require a residence long enough to defeat that. Say three months. I move to strike out six months from the article and insert three. M~r. AriEL,,-That will do. I second the motion, For the Parish of Ouachita............ do. Union................. 2 do. Morehouse............. 1 do. Jackson............... 2 do. Caldwell.............. 1 do. Catahoula............. 2 do. Claiborne.............. 3 do. Bossier................ 1 do. Bienville.............. 2 do. Carroll................ I do. Tensas................ I do. Winn.................. 2 Total........................... 118 And the State shall be divided into the following senatorial districis: All that por tion of the parish of Orleans lying on the left bank of the Mississippi river shall be divided into two senatorial districts; the First and Fourth Districts of the city of New Orleans shall compose one district, and shall elect four senators; and the Second and Third Districts of said city shall c ompose the other district, and shall elect three senators. The parishes of Plaquemines, St. Bernard and all that part of the parish of Orleans on the right bank of the Mississippi river shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of Jefferson shal l form on e district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of St. Charles and Lafourche shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of St. John the Bapt ist and St. James shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Ascension, Assu mp tion and Terrebonne shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parish of Iberville shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of East Baton Rouge shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of West Baton Rouge, Point Coupge, and West Feliciana shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parish of East Feliciana shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Washington, St. Tammany, St. Helena and Livingston shall form one district and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Concordia and Tensas shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Madison and Carroll shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Morehouse, Ouachita, Union and Jackson shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parishes of Catahoula, Caldwell and Franklin shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Bossier, Bienlville, Clai 590 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. Mr. SLLLivAN-I move to lay the rider on Mr. SHAW-I have a rider to offer to this the table. - also, for the same reason as to the last arti [The motion was lost on a rising vote — cle. We have added two senators to the 35 ayes, 42 noes.] parish of Orleans. so that now we have pro Mr. SULLIVAN-Mr. President, this is out- vided for the election of thirty-six instead rageous; this will allow people to come in of thirty-four. I therefore move to strike here by hundreds from all the surrounding out thirty-four and insert thirty-six in this parishes to vote at our elections in the city. article. If you don't like six months make it at [The motion was carried. least three. I would not object to that. Articles 24 to 43 were adopted without Mr. CUTLER-That was my motion. amendment or debate. [Mr. Cutler's amendment was carried. The secretary read:] Articles 15 and 21 were adopted as rie- Art. 44. No person shall be eligible to ported without debate. the office of governor or lieutenant gover The secretary read,] nor who shall not have attained the age of Art. 22. No parish shall be divided in the thirty years, and been a citizen and resiformation of a senatorial district, the par- dent within the State for the period of ten enpar- years next preceding his election. ish of Orleans excepted. And whenever a r et rieo h e new parish shall be created, it shall be at- Mr. FOLEY —I move to strike out "ten " tached to the senatorial district from which and insert "five." most of its territory was taken, or to an- Mr. SuLiiv.AN —That is out of order. It other contiguous district, at the discretion of the Legislature; but shall not be at- M new matter tached to more than one district. The Mr FLOOD-I amend to two years. number ot senators shall be thirty-four; Mr. BAUM-I move its rejection. and they shall be apportioned among the [The motion to reject was lost, and Mr. senatorial districts according to the electo.Foley's motion carried. Mr. Flood's not ral population contained in the several ley's motion carried. Mr. Flood's not districts: Provided, that no parish be en- having been seconded, was not put to the tiled to more than seven senators. House. Mr. SHAW-I have a rider to this article Articles 45 and 46 were adopted without to make it correspond with the change we debate or amendment. have made, which gives the parish of Or- The secretary read:] leans nine senators. In the last line change Art. 47. In case of impeachment of the seven to nine. governor, his removal from office, death, [The rider was adopted.! refusal or inability to qualify, resignation The secretary read:] *or absence from the State, the powers and Art. 2 alproduties of the office shall devolve upon the Art. 23. In all apportionments of the lieutenant governor for the residue of the Senate, the electoral population of the term, or until the governor, absent or im whole State shall be divided by the num- peached, shall return or be acquitted. The ber thirty-four, and the result produced by Legislature may provide by law for the this division shall be the senatorial ratio case, of removal, impeachment, death, re entitling a senatorial district to a senator. signation, disability or refusal to qualify Single or contiguous parishes shall be of both the governor and the lieutenant formed into districts, having a population governor, declaring what officer shall act the nearest possible to the number enti- as governor, and such officer shall act ac tling a district to a senator; and if ia the cordingly, until the disability be removed, apportionment to make a parish or district or for the remainder of the term. fall short of or exceed the ratio, then a dis trict may be formed having not more than Mr. HENDERSON-I move to strike out the two senators, but not otherwise. No new word "residue," and insert "remainder," apportionment shall have the effect of in order to correspond with the last line. abridging the term of service of any sena tor already elected at the time of making [The motion was lost. the apportionment. After an enumeration The secretary read.] has been made as directed in the 10th arti- Art. 67. The free white men of the State cle, the Legislature shall not pass any law shall be armed and disciplined for its de until an apportionment of representation fence;but those who belong to religious in both Houses of the General Assembly be societies whose tenets forbid them to carry made. arms, shall not be compelled so to do, but 591 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION shall pay an equivalent for personal ser- Mr. CUTLER-Mr. President, I have but vices. this to say: when a section or article of this Mr. CUTLER-I move as a rider that the constitution has been submitted to this words "free white men" be struck out and body upon its third reading, and has been the words "all able-bodied mend' be sub- adopted, the nature and character is tI) stituted therefor. offer some matter that has not already been [The motion was carried by a rising vote passed upon. It must be some new sub of 51 ayes to 18 noes.] ject-some new matter. The honorable Mr. SHAW-There is a further rider ne- gentleman has offered a rider of precisely cessary to this article, which I hope will be the same form and nature as the substitute presented. he submitted in regard to the election of Mr. SMITH-Mr. President, I have a rider the judiciary, and that was passed upon. to offer. I propose to substitute for the It is entirely out of order for any question whole article the following, viz: that has been passed upon to come up All able-bodied male residents between again in the same language as a rider, and the ages of eighteen and forty-five years, it cannot be introduced. This is certainly (except subjects of foreign powers who have never voted in the United States nor right; t s parliamentary and in accorddeclared their intention to become citizens,) ance with common sense. If the gentle shall be enrolled in the militia, and subject man has a rider, embracing new matter, let to military service according to law. us hear it. Mr. SULLIV..N-I move to lay that on the [The rider was lost. table. No riders were offered to the succeeding [The motion was carried.] articles up to article 106.] Mr. CUTLER —I have another rider. The Art. 106. All persons shall be bailable article as it now stands reads: by sufficient sureties, unless for capital of All able-bodied men of the State shall be fences, where the proof is evident or prearmed and disciplined in its defence, etc. sumption great; or, unless after conviction Now, I move to strike out all after the I for any offence or crime punishable with word defence. death or imprisonment at hard labor. The [The motion was carried on a rising vote privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall -ayes 58, noes 11.' not be suspended, unless, when in cases of rebellion.or invasion. the public safety may Mr. HAR,X-AN-Mr. President, members require it. don't know what they are voting for. Mr. HEND1aSON-I offer the following Mr. SEYMOUR-I move the ante-rooms be rider closed. All persons shall be bailable, by suffi Mr. SULLIVAN-That's right. Leave out cient sureties, except bfor capital offences, the whisky. where the proof is evident or presumption [Articles 68 to 78 were adopted without great and this rightof bail shall take place amendment or debate. on appeal to the Supreure Court. amendment or debate. The secretary read:] Mr. ABELL —I move to lay it on the table. Art. 79. The judges of the Supreme [Carried. Court shall be appointed by the governor, No riders were offered to the slcceediI,'; by and with the advice and consent of the articles ulp to article 116.] Senate, for a term of eight years; the Art. 116. The Legislature shall have the, judges of the inferior courts for a term of! judgears ofthifeiocurs r power to license the selling of lottery ticksix years. six * years.{ ets and the keeping of gambling houses; Mr. SULLIVAN-1 offer the following rider: said holuses in all cases shall be on the first And that the judges of the Supreme Court floor and kept with open doors; but in all be elected by the people for the term of cases not less than ten thousand dollars per eight years. Also that the judges of the annum shall be levied as a license or t:x inferior courts be elected by the people of on each vendor ot lottery tickets, and on their several districts for the term of six each gambling house, and five hundred dolyears, and that it shall be the duty of the lars on each tombola. Legislature to fix the time for holding Mr. ])A-N,vIEs —-I mv osrk u l elections for all judges, at a time which shall be different from that fixed for all ter "gambling houses" and insert "and inother elections. surance offices." 592 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 593 Mr. BF.kuvMs-I move to lay it on the [Lost.] table. Art. 133. The citizens of the city of New ~~~~[Carried.] ~Orleans shall have the right of appointing the several public officers necessary for the Mr. CAzABTr-I move to strike out' and administration of the police of said city, five hundred dollars on each tombola."' pursuant to the mode of elections which Mr. SULLI,TVAN-I move to lay it on the shall be prescribed by the Legislature; table. provided that the mayor and recorders *[Carried.]~~ ~shall be eligible to a seat in the General ~~~[Carried.] ~Assembly; and the mnayor and recorders Mr. AUSTIN-I move to strike out the shall be commissioned by the governor as whole article. justices of the peace, and the Legislature Mr. SUr.LuTv..N —-I move to lay it on the may vest in them such criminal jurisdiction table. as may be necessary for the punishment of minor offences, and as the police and good [Carried.] of said city may require. Art. 117. The Legislature may enact And that the city of New Orleans shall general laws regulating the adoption of maintain a police which shall be uniformed c'hildren, emancipation of minors, chang- with distinction of grade, to consist of pering of names and the granting of divorces; manent citizens of the State of Louisiana, but no special laws shall be enacted rela- to be selected by the mayor of the city, ting to particular or individual cases. and to hold office during good behavior, Mr. STAUF'IERI-I move to strike out all and removable only by a police commis after the word "divorces.' sion composed of five citizens and the after t h e wor a divces' mayor, who shall be president of the board. Mlr. SU'LTI.XA —I move to lay it oll the The commission to be appointed by the table. governor of the State for the term of two [Carrie d. years, at a salary of not less than one No riders where offered to tile succeeding thousand dollars each per annum; a ma Noriders werd to at. 1 n jority of whom shall remove for delinquenarticles up to art. 122.] tcies. Members of the police when removed Art. 122. In case of the insolvency of shall inot again be eligible to any position any bank or banking association, the bill i on the police force for a term of one year. holders thereof shall be entitled to prefer- Interfering or meddling in elections in ence in payment over all other creditors any manner will be a sufficient cause for of such bank or association. instant dismissatl from the police by the Mr. SmTil —I move to insert alter the board. i-ordl i shall *the word ",not." The chief of police shall give a penal bond in the sum of ten thousand dollars; Mr. BELI-I move to lay it on the table. lieutenants of police, five thousand dollars; [Carried.] sergeants and clerks, each. three thousand Art. 123. No person shall hold dollars: corporals, two thousand dollars; cise, at the same time, more than one civil and privates one thousand dollars; with god and solvent security, ast the law dioffice of trust or profit, except that of Ju god ad solvent security, as the law di ~~tice of the peace. rects, for the faithfifl performance of their duties. Mfr. K~tAv.~GH —I move to strike out uis Mr. KAvA H-1 Move to stk out The various officers shall receive a sal except that of justice of the peace.'' ary otf lot less than the following rates [Laid on the table. The Flief of police.......$250 per month. No riders were offered to the suceceed- The lie(utenants of police.. 150 do. iiif articles up to art. 130.] T The sergeants of police... 100 do. Tge clerks of police....... 100 do. Art. 130. The seat of government shall Te potlofpoli 0 do. The corporals of' police,,.. 90 do0. be and remain at New Orleans, and shall The privetes (day and not be removed without the consent of a it ) c 8 majority of both Houses of the General............ Assembly. MIr. OR —IlMr. President, I intend to offer Mr. HILI.S —I move to strike out " mnt- a rid(ci' to this article, and wish to make a jority" and insert "three-fourths." few xplanatory remarks. When this po Mr. WExcK-I move to lay it onl the lice bill camelue ii) u oflered( an amendment, table. which was adopted andi became a part of [Carried —yeas 40, nays 26.] the police bill. The committee appointed Mr. WATERS-I move a recess of fifteen to arrange these matters have seen proper minutes. to place the amendment in another portion 75 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION of the constitution. I contend they have no such right, and cannot separate the bill. When an amendment is carried and adopted on its third reading it becomes a part of that bill and must remain so. Mr. CABAT-I move to insert after the words "not less than the following rates," the words " unless otherwise provided by law." Mr. SULLIVAN —I move to lay it on the table. [Carried.] Mr. CUTLER —Mr. President, as chairman of that committee, I was the author of this bill. Now, as a bill, I contend, sir, this Convention could do nothing better; the Legislature of the State could pass no better bill, save and except with the addition of the amendment I am about to offer. I move to strike out all after "the faithful performance of their duties." I mean no disrespect to my brother members of the committee-I mean no disrespect to Mr. Orr, who moved the amendment. It was carried and put to this article, but the committee did not affix it thereto. I voted against the entire bill, because you have fixed the prices of cartmen and other men, worthy in their place, but a business with which we have nothing whatever to do. The bill, as a constitutional provision, I believe to be generally a pro p er and r ighteou s one, but fixing all sala ries b y th is con stitutional Conv ention of municipal officers, and more especially of the good and honest laboring men on the public works, is a duty never imposed upon iis, and that is the reason, sir, I voted against the entire bill since Mr. Orr's amendment was attached. Now, I discover on examining this report of the Special Committee, that you have not embraced Mr. Orr's bill. It was adopted by this Con vention, and Mr. Orr has a right to com plain; but. sir, with all his complaints and with all he might say, I am directly and bit terly opposed to such a proceeding. PRESIDENT-Is not article 134 Mr. Orr's bill? Mr. CUTLER —Yes, it is, but it is in a sep arate article. My motion is to strike out all after " duties." Mr. ABELr, —Mr. President, I think the police bill as reporte d by this committee and adopted, just exactly what it ought to be. If you wish to ha ve the constitution adopted, let this remain as it is. If you strike out this, you will also strike off two o r e oua vos o three thousand votes for this constitution. [Mr. Cutler withdrew his motion.] Art. 1d4. The Legisla ture may establish the priee a nd pa y o f foremen, mechanics, laborers and others employed on the public works of the State or par ochia l or city governments. Provided, That the compens a tion to be paid to all f oremen, m echan ics, cartmen and laborers employed on the public works, under the gover n me nt of the State o f Louisiana, city of New Orleans and the pol ice juries of the v arious parishes of the State, shall not be less than as follows, viz: Foremen, $3 50 per day; mechanics, $3 00 per day; cartmen, $3 50 pe r day; laborers, $2 00 per day. Mr. SULLIViNi-I offer the following; Strike out all previous to the word provided. [Laid on th e t abl e.] Mr. TERRY-I mo ve t o substitute "shall i for " may " in the first line. Mr. WENCK-I move to lay it on the ta ble. [Carrie d by th e following vote:] YEs.s-Messrs. Abell, Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bennie, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Crozat, Cutler, D avies, Decker, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Fuller, Gastinel. Grunebergn, Hea rd, He nders on, Kava nagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Mann, Mayer, Newell, Normand, Ong, Pintado, Pursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Stumpf, Sti ner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Wenck, Wells, Wil son-42. NAYs —Messrs. Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Col lin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Duane. Du fresne, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Gor linski, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, Hire, Howes, Maas, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, S-hroeder, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Sulli van, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters-40. Mr. WELLS —I move to strike out the whole title. [The yeas and nays being ordered, the roll was called, and the motion lost by the following vote:] YEAS-Messrs. Austin, Beauvais, Bennie Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Edwards, Fish, Flagg, Fuller, Heard, Kavahugh, Kugler, Mann, Newell, Ong, Pursell S., Seymour, 594 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. lars per annum. The mode of appointment, number and salary of his assistants shall be fixed by law. The state engineer and assistants shall give bonds for the performance of their duties as shall be prescribed by law. Shaw, Taliaferro, Thorpe, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-24. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Barrett, Baum, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Davies, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Ennis, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Gaidry, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Knobloch, Maas, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Couner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Schroeder, Schnurr, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thomas, Waters -60. [Before the vote was announ c ed, Messrs. Collin, Burke and Hire changed their votes from "yes "-to " no." The previous question was then m oved and carried. On a motion to adjourn, the yeas and nays were called:] YEss —Mes srs. Campbell, Collin, C ook J. K., Dufresney,Dupaty, Flagg, Gaidry, Harnan, Knobloch, Mayer, Mendiverri, Murphy M. W., Newell, O'Conne r, Orr,' Pintado-16. N~Ys —Messrs. Abell, Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Buckley, B urk, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Dav ies, Deck er, Duane, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flood, F oley, F osdick, Fuller, G astinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Healy, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills. Hire,Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Montamat, Morris, Murp hy E., Normand, Ong, Pa yne J., Psirsell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaterro, Terry, Thorpe, Thoma s, Waters, Wenck el, Wells, Wilson-66. [The motion was therefore lost.] Art. 136. There shall he appointed by the governor a Ate engineer, skilled in the theory and pradtice of his profession, who shall hold his offi ce, at the seat of govern ment, for the term of fo ur years. He shall have the superintendence and direction of all public works in whi ch the State may be interested, except thosdemade by joint stock companies or such as may be under t h e parochial or city au tho ri ties exclusively and not in conflict with the general laws of the State. He shall communicate to the General Assembly, through the governor, annually, his views concerning the same, report upon the condition of the public works in progress, recommend such meas ures as in his opinion the public interest of the State may require, and shall perform such other duties as may be prescribed by law. His salary shall be four thousand dol Mr. HILLS-I move to strike out "four thousand dollars per annum " and insert "five thousand dollars per annum until otherwise provided by law.." [A motion to table was lost by a vote of 51 nays to 9 yeas, and the rider adopted. The following article was read:] Art. 137. The General Assembly may create internal improvement districts, composed of one or more parishes, and may grant a right to the citizens thereof to tax themselves for their improvements. Said internal improvement districts, when created, shall have the right to select commissioners, shall have power to appoint officers, fix their pay and regulate all matters relative to the improvements of their districts: Provided, such improvements wil4 not conflict with the general laws of the State. And that the municipal corporation of the city of New Orleans shall be prohibited from adjudicating, sell i n g by se aled proposals, or in any manner contracting for the working or completing of any public works under their supervision and control. Mr. STA-UFFER-I offer a rider to strike out all after " State.,' Mr. SMITH-As a member of the committee, I voted to strike out the same portion of the article, as I see no good in it, for it certainly cuts off the city of New Orleans from doing anything and drives out competition. I am a mechanic and know that if you take away this power to contract, you throw everything into the hands of a very peculiar set of individuals. This amendment does not cure any evil, for the city must still employ foremen, who will in turn, put in their relatives, and thus the evil, instead of being cured, is made worse than before. Let the city have this power, and oblige her to make men fulfill their agreements in the spirit of their contracts. [Applause.] Mr. SULLIVAN,-Mr. President, the committee will please be so kind as to hear me whilst I give a word or two of explanation on this subject. This amendment which I offered in regard to contracts, and which 595 ik DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION borers, mechanics, cartmen and foremen employed to see that the work is properly done. Let this system be pursued by the city authorities and there shall be at all times plenty of work for the laboring classes and a sufficiency of money left in the treasury to pay them. Mr. GORL.INSKI-Mr. President, as chairman of the committee, I opposed Mr. Sullivan s amendment, because I thought it opened the door to speculation by the city. I still think so, and shall act accordingly. Mr. STAUFFER —Mr. President. I differ entirely from the gentleman who offered this amendment, and think we have just as good a right to say th at I no private individual s ha ll have a right to contract with me in regard to building or anything else. I consider the city as an indivdual, having as such a perfect right to enter into any of the contracts set forth. I do not not consider all men to be thieves and robbers, as the gentleman (Mr. Sullivan) does, but go upon the principle of considering a man honest until I find him out to be a rascal —up to which time I believe I have no right to judge him. In my opinion, the corporation has a right to let out contracts, and that if it is not allowed to, the municipal expenses will be twenty-five thousand dollars, when under contract system they would not be ten thousand. If there is any swindling, tre city can look aft,er the matter, and if it dues not choose to d(o so, it must suffernot the State. Mr. CUTLEmi-Mr. President, this amendment has been changed since first offered, after deliberation. As to municipal regula~tions, they do not concern us, as all that we have to do is to fix the organic law. T am inclined to think we had better wipe out the words in question. [Applause.] [Mr. Stauffer's motion carried. The next article was read:] was unanimously passed i)y this body some time ago, aii(I which was ordered to be inserted in the second article of internal improvements, and should have been placed in article 137 of the printed report of the Committee on Form and Arrangement, but was altogether left out by this committee for some reason best known to themselves, consequently the members have not before them in the printed report this amendment of mine which was passed. The object I had in having this amendment a part of the constitution of this State, was for the sole purpose of giving more work to the laboring classes of this city, and also that the tax-payer would be benefitted by their work. Not for the purpose of fostering a band of vampire contractors who have been years past sucking the money of the people from the treasury, without giving in return hardly any benefit either to the working men or to the taxpayers of the city. The member firom St. Mary (Mr. Smith) upholds the contract system. I do not. If that gentleman had lived in this city as long as I have, he would entertain far different opinions from what he now expresses. I am well acquainted with the manner that the contract system' worked for years back in this city. I know every twist and turn of its rascality. For the sake of illustration: let the city sell a contract to-morrow, the contractor will put to work about ten men, where the city doing its own work would employ one hundred., It would cost the city as much money for the work done by these ten men on contract work, as the city itself would expend by the employment of one hundred men; so that by this contract system the city loses the labor of ninety men, thereby depriving the families of those poor men of their necessary support fi'omi the want of employment. For this reason I am not in favor of contracting. I am its enemy; because I want to see right and justice done to the laboring man. I never want to see a contract for the completing of any of the public works of the city given out or sold. Let the city do its own work; let there be la, Art. 138. The General Assembly may grant aid to said districts out of the fuinds arising from the swamp and overflowed lands, granted to the State by the IUnited qtates for that purpose or otherwis,,. Ar. CABnELIL -I offer a rider: Provided, That the city of New Orleans shall comprise one internal improvement and drainage district, and appropriations 596 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. made for that purpose shall be paid into the treasury of the city of New Orleans. Mr. BFAUvAIS-I move it be laid on the i table. PRESIDENT-This proviso belongs properly to article 137. Any gentleman acquainted with New Orleans knows the inconvenience of having it divided into three draining districts. [Mr. Beauvais' motion carried, on division called: ayes 34, nays 31. Some dissatisfaction arising in regard to the vote, it was taken again, resulting: ayes 46, nays 21.] PRESID.1. T-I will say, eib passant, that I cannot see how any gentleman living in New Orleans could have voted to lay that rider on the table. [On article 139 there was no discussion. The following article was read.] Art. 140. There shall be elected a superintendent of public education, who shall hold his office for the term of four years. His duties shall be prescribed by law, and he shall receive such compensation as the Legislature may direct, provided, that the General Assembly shall have power by a vote of the majority of the members elected to both Houses, to abolish the said office of superintendent of public education, whenever in their opinion said office shall be no longer necessary. Mr. TERRY-I have a rider,-to strike out "such compensation as the Legislature may direct," and insert " a compensation of three thousand dollars per anai'~nt. - Mr. HE,A.T —I move that be laid on the P.RSIDFsT-Sergeant-at-arms keep order. I shall be obliged to arrest you, sir. Mr. PT;RsEE, —Very well, sir, but I appeal. Mr. STAUFFER-Every man of this Convention has a right to be heard. I insist upon that. Mr. PU'RSU,LL-I insist upon my appeal. PREsIDFN'T-Sergeant-at-arms, take that gentleman into custody. Mr. CUTLER —He has a right to hi s appeal. PRESIDENT-I will arrest you, too, sir, it you do not keep order. [A motion to adjourn havin g been made. the president declar ed the Convention adjourned until 12.r., of Friday, the 22d inst., amid loud cries of "no adjournment," "division," &c. The president having left the chair without directing a division, Mr. Fish was called to the chair, and on putting the motion to adjourn again, to the House, it was clearly'carried, and the Convention adjouirned.] table. [Motion carried.] Mr. BEAU-vAI', —I offer a rider, the same as the last,-inserting, however, "five " in place of "three" thousand. [Laid on the table.] Mr. FLSH —I offer a rider. —insert after the word receive, the words "a salary of four thousand dollars per annuim,; striking out th; words " such compensation as the Legislature may direct.,' [Motion to table lost on a. rising vote — ayes 24, nays 49. [Rider adopted.] Mr. HrLis —I move to strike out "1and who shall receive such compensation as the Legislature shall direct." [Carried. [The Convention met pursuant to adjournment. Present, the Hon. E. H. Durell, president, and the following members:] Messrs. Abell, Austin, Barrett, Baum Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier. Gorlinski, Gaidry, Gruneberg, Healy, Hanan, Hart, Heard, Henderson. Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Mur-phy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, r)97 Secretary directed to read article 141.1 Mr. PURSELL —L have a rider to article 140. PItESIDEN,T-Too late. Mr. PURSEI,L-I'appeal from. the decision of the chair. Mr. CUTLER-The gentleman had the, floor and should be beard. PItESIDENT-IN'hat is he to be heard upon9 There is no question before the House. Mr. Secretary read article 141. Mr. PuRsFLT,-l appeal, and insist upon it. FRIDAY, July 22, 1864. DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION have an opportunity of learning something he has never thought of heretofore. Now, Mr. President, we have gone on here and permitted papers of secession tendencies to be received here; but, sir, when it comes to this, when a man publishes infamous lies respecting this Convention and its proceedings, let us bring him here and let him give an account of himself. What has this man, Thomas P. May, done that we introduce this resolution? In the first place, he has told us that our president was drunk. I want him to be brought here to substantiate the charge. That paper has, until recently, been very cautious not to say anything. I have my private opinions as to who are its owners, although the name of Thomas P. May is at its head; and I say, to-day, that I believe we have an enemy among us in the person of Salmon P. Chase. Yes, sir, Salmon P. Chase attempted, through the power he held in his hands as secretary of the treasury, to be a rival of our president. And I believe that C. A. Weed, who is one of the owners of that paper, is nothing more than a Chase man, to-day. I believe, sir, that an editor may write and publish what he pleases, provided that he is responsible for what he publishes. Now, sir, he has not published our proceedings, but he has published some false statements respecting our president and this Convention. I suppose, sir, that I am the man that was struck. Why, sir, when the president declared the Convention adjourned we were nothing but private individuals. We were .no longer a Co nvention. I sta rted ho me. When I re ach ed the do or I had a right to go out. The door-keeper told me I could not go, and attempted to stop me; but sir, I refused to be stopped and went out as I had a right to do. Now, sir, I would like to see the man that had the boot applied to him. I don't think there was such a man. I have only heard of him through the Times. This may be all intended as a matter of ridicule and sport, but it certainly does not have that appearance. But how are we to reach this case. I believe that the modern decisions only go so far as to exclude the reporter of the obnoxious sheet from th e House. Mr. CXZ.ABAT —I have listened attentively O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stutmpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-84. [The minutes of yesterday's proceedings were adopted.] PRESIDENT-Gentlemen: I rise to a question of personal privilege. My attention has been called to an article which appears in this morning's Times, headed " Great tim e in Convention," etc. I rise to denounce it as a most infamous libel upon myself and upon this Convention. Mr. STAUFFER —-Mr. P resid ent, I have a resolution to offer upon this matter. Resolved, That the sergeant-at-arms be ordered t o take immediate possession of the pap er c a lled the New Orleans Time s and ht thatthe publication of the paper be suspended until i ts responsible editor, Thomas P. May, Esq., appear before this Convention and purge himself of the libel he has published in the issue of this date regarding the proceedings of this Convention of the 21st of July, 1864. Mr. TERRY-I move its adoption. Mr. HILLS-I move to lay it on the table. Mr. ABELL-I second the motion. [The yeas and nays were called.] YEAs-Messrs. Abell, Baum, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Cazabat, Decker, Dufresne, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Fosdick, Gastinel, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Hart, Heard, Hills, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Mann. Maurer, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Ong, Orr, Poynot, Shaw, Stumpf, Sullivan, Waters —32 NAYs-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Geier, Healy, Harnan, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Kugler, Maas, Mayer, Montamat, Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Pursell S,, Schroedor, Schntrr, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-47. tion. Mr. HENDERSON-A man that will move to lay on the table now, is not a gentleman. Sir, we are not without precedent, and if the gentleman wants'to learn something before he leaves this Convention he may 598 [The motion to lay on the table was lost.] Air. HF,-L,-DERSoN-Mr. President, I desire to Mr. MO —,-TAMAT-1 move the previous qtles AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 599 to the remarks of the gentleman, but notwithstanding the great respect I have for our president, I still have a higher respect for the freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Sir, it makes no difference to me whether the remarks in the Times are just and true, or whether they are entirely without foundation. I am an advocate of a free press and of free speech, and, sir, we have already adopted an article in the constitution which expresses my views and sentiments fully on the subject. I will read it: 'Art. 111. The press shall be free; every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects-being responsible for an abuse of this liberty." Yes, sir, this Convention is nothing but the creature of the people, and each and all of us are subject to the criticism of the public press, and of each and every one of them, no matter how humble or how high his station I, sir, believe that the ruling of our worthy president was proper and correct, but even if incorrect, the gen tlemen wh o attempt ed to disturb'this Con ve nti on should have quietly submitted to th e d ecision of the chair and were not justified in pursuing the course they adopted. Mr. MONTAMAT —Mr. President: I now wish to reply in a few words to Mr. Hen derson. I did'nt move to lay on the table. I voted against it. Mr. Henderson is one of the most disorderly members in this House. He is always throwing stones into my garden. Mr. ABEILi-I know the statement in the Times to be false, for I had the honor of walking with the president myself, to one of the most distinguished galleries of art in this city after the adjournment last evening, and-if there was anything out of the usual course in his condition I should have per ceived it. I therefore wish to protest against the truth of the Times' article, but I really think it would be giving that paper too much distinction and making too much of a small matter to notice it flrther than to denounce it as false. I shall therefore vote against the resolution. Mr. CUTLTER-Mr. President and gentle men of the Conventions~ I have a substitute for this resolution, but before offering it, it may be well for me t o make a few remarks, to which I beg your attention. I am convinced, sir, that we are here for the purpose of doing justice to all classes of men within t h e sphere of our action, and tha t M r. May is a me nable to this bo dy, al though the constitution of the United States as we ll as th at of our State re ads thus: " T he press shall be fiee. Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subje cts, being responsible for an abuse of this liberty." The re bein g, on this particular occasion, no question in my mind, th at there was not only an abuse of th is pri vile ge, but a serious outrage on the a t the epar t of the editor of the Time s. We have then a co nstitutional provision, that alth ough a man may freely speak an d write, yet he is responsible for any wrong he may commit. If this is true, sir, when he abuses an indivdual, how much greater the responsibility wh en th is body is assailed, not because of us who are the members of it, but, sir, it is a political b ody and has a political existence. It is because of this polit ical existence that the paper s which publish our proceedings should dis seminate the truth, and nothing but the tr uth. [Applause.] Now, sir, I was an eye-witness to the transactions which to ok place here yesterday, and I freely as se rt that in the Halls of Congress many scenes far more reprehensible have been enacted; and acts in themselves far worse been com mitted, not only by the speaker of the House a nd t he presi den t of th e Senat e, but by the members of both representative houses. I dare say, that there never was a deliberati ve bod y, c omposed of as many members, and gathered from as many dif ferent sources, sitting either in any State of this Union, or in any portion of the civilized world, in which there were fewer instances of party wrangling and discord. The matter of yesterday was a consequence naturally resulting from a difference of opinion, of which I, to some extent, may have been the cause. The president, in fiuenced by reasons which to him seemed just and proper, was indisposed to put the motion at that particular moment, and he decided that it was out of order. This was perfectly within the scope of the president's DEBATES IN THE CONVENTIONIFOR THE REVIWION authority. And again, when the gentle- tion and disclaim any intention of offering man [Mr. Purcell,] appealed from the de- us an insult. When he does that, he should, cision of the chair, the president was in my opinion, be excused,-but if he does perhaps still indisposed to put the motion. not-then suppress his paper. [Applause.] This, also, was a matter between him and I believe this is due to the dignity of the the Convention. State, and were I the commanding general, Now, as an eye-witness, I beg leave to with my limited knoweldge, I think that state, that every word and sentence in that this paper (again exhibiting the Times) paper (exhibiting a copy of the Times) this would not to-day issue an afternoon edition. mporning, is a corrupt and base falsehood! [Applause.] This is not only a blow at us In the first place the president may have as members, but it shows a disposition to been correct inhisdecision: he toldme that thwart the noble ends and purposes for he did not see the gentleman, which is of which we are congregated here. [AI, itself a sufficient explanation. I may have plause.] Considering this critical juncture been wrong in making my motion, and the in national affrsI denounce it as one of fifteen or twenty members who seconded the most high-handed outrages that could me may have also been wrong in doing so. have been committed bv any paper or But, be it right or be it wrong, does it editor upon a legislative body, and there amount to anything so extraordinarily dis- fore justifying the immediate action of this graceful, as it has been construed to be body. oerthen thissubstitute: body. I offer then this substitute the enlightened copperhead editor of the Resolved. That Thomas P. May, editor of Times? [ Applause.] I say, sir, that the New Orleans Times, be brought before these are trying times! The nearer the this Convention forthwith by the sergeant rebels get to this city, the prouder the cop- at arms and that he be required to purge himself of the contempt and libel on this perheads become. It is time to put themhisloftecnepanlieenti pereas become. It s time to put them body as published in the issue of July 22d. down, and the nearer they come the louder 1864, or that he be otherwise dealt with as they shall hear my voice raised against them. the Convention may deem proper and just. If it had not been for the news placarded If he apologizes, we will excuse him, for upon the Times' bulletin board yesterday, I I believe that the proper feelings of hudo not believe that either the editor or re- manity exist in the heart of every man porter of that paper would have dared to here; but if there is a refusal to apologize, insert this foul slander. My doctrine is to then stop all such libels during the existlet the copperheads, rattlesnakes and rebels ence of this Convention. It has been said go down to hell together! [Applause.] that " we have no power to (lo this." That Upon this Convention the whole public eye( is a very strange doctrine. Suppose, sir, a is cast, and when we have small wrang- ai party of disorderly persons, copperheads lings or controversies in good hminor, if you please, should combine to disturb without any bad results, no10 paper should by noise, or otherwise this Convention. dare to publish such a villifying lie and Could not. or would not the president direct slander in relation to it. We can get along, the sergeant-at-arms to arrest them an(l and conclude this great and noble work of bring them before this Convention for punmaking a constitution, but if we are to have ishment 9 For the power exists to send out the press against us, abusing its power and and take any man who interrupts our proprivilege, then I say it is time to sippress ce eedings or runs counter to them. We that press., | have a right to do this by resolution, and it But let us give every man ta faIir cha-u,ce upon trial the offender is found guilty, the of being heard. I know the lanliu1,Lte ill of bef ing heard. I know the langl ye i president has the power to sentence him to question to be false,-it is a calumny it i imprisonment. This power is not only still give every one a fair trial. Let its au vested in th e Congress of the United States be heard. I have no doubt but that Mr. and in the Legislature of every State, but and in the Legislature of every State, but May is a man, and if I had taken his positioi in this body, and without it we would be, in this body and without it we would be ai I would show myself to be a man. Let him laughing-stock and scorn and unworthy of be sent for; let him come into this Conven- making a constitution. (300 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 601 and those who change this provision as hirelings. I vote'; no " in the name of the State. The rider was adopted by the following vote:] YEAS- Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Geier, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Mann, Maurer, Murphy E.; Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson —53. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Decker, Dufresne, Edwards, Fuller, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Hart, Heard Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Ong, Orr, Pursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, SMll i van, Waters- 27. [No riders were offered to article 142. * The secret ary read article 1 43.] 143. A university shall be established in the city o f New Orlean s. It shall be composed of four faculties, to-wit: one of law, one of medicine, one of the natural sciences, and one of letters; the Legisla ture shall provide by law for it s organ ization and maintenance. Mr. SMITH-I move to strike out " in the city of New Orleans " and insert "located by the Legislature. Mr. FOTEY-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion to table was carried. No riders were offered to articles 144 and 145. The secretary read article 146.] Art. 146. No appropriation shall be made by the Legislature for the support of any private school or institution of learning whatever, but the highest encouragement shall be granted to public schools throughout the State. Mr. FoTrEY —l move the article be stricken out. Mr. SMITH —I move to lay. that on the table. [Carried —yeas 54, nays 12. The secretary read article 147.] Art. 147. Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate or House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by twotlhirds of the members elected to each House, such proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals, with the yeas and nays taken thereon, Mr. ABELL-I deny that Congress even has any such power as is claimed here, and I say, sir, it is beneath the dignity of this body to carry it any further. We should not dignify so small a matter by any flirther action than a denial of its truth, as we have already done. These gentlemen, who are so anxious for some action, wish to prolong the session of this body. [The substitute offered by Mr. Cutler was adopted.] [The order of the day was then taken ip. Article 141 of the constit4tion.] Art. 141. The Legislature shall levy a special tax on the property of all white persons owning property in the State, for the purpose of public schools for the education of white children, and money so a rising shall not be otherwise appropriated. The Legislature shall levy a special tax on colored persons in the State and their property for the purpose of public schools for the education of colored children, and money so arising shall not be otherwise appropriated. Mr. TERRY-I offer the following rider for the whole article: The Legislature shall provide for the education of all children in the State between the ages of six and eighteen years, by maintenance of free public schools by taxation or otherwise. Mr. SuT,-I, TAN-I'move to lay it on the table. [The yeas and nays were ordered and the motion lost, as follows:] YEAS-Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Buckley, Campbell, Crozat, Decker, Dufresne, Edwards, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gruneberg Heard, Henderson, Knobloch, Maas, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, Ong, Orr, Pursell S., Sullivan, Thomas, Waters —29. NAYS-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hills, lire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Mann, Maurer, Murphy E., O'Conner, Payne J., Poynot, Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauiffer, Terry, Thorpe, Wells, Wilson-50. Mr. DUANE-I move the previous question. [Carried, and the yeas and nays called on the adoption of the rider.] Mr. ABELL —I denounce it as disgraceful, 76 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION and the secretary of state shall cause the same to be published, three months before the next general election for representatives of the State Legislature, in at least one newspaper in French and English, in every parish in the State in which a newspaper shall be- published; and such proposed amendment or amendments shall be submitted to the people at said election; and if a majority of the voters at said election shall approve and ratify such amendment or amendments, the same shall become a part of the constitution. If more than one amendment be submitted at a time, they shall be submitted in such manner and form, that the people may vote for or against each amendment separately. Mr. BEiUVAIS-I move to strike out d"twothirds," and insert " a majority." Mr. FOLEY-I move to lay it on the table. [The motion to table was lost, and the consti tution, it not t bei ng in con formity with the wish of the p e o ple. [The motion was not seconde d. On the motion t o adopt the constitution as a whole, the yeas and nays were called. During the calli ng o f the roll the following mnembers explained their vote:] Mr. ABELL —Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention: The occasion is most important. I desire, sir, to give my reasons for the vote I am about to cast upon the adoption or rejection of the constitution as a whole. My views are before the country, and I will be brief now. In this constitution I find much to admire. A more permanent Judiciary; by making it appointive; a more certain protection to person and property, by a permanent instead of a time-serving police; and other salutary amendments too numerous to mention here, meet my entire approbation. But, Mr. President, there are objections which preponderate in my mind. I view the emancipation act, and the act authorizing the Legislature to extend suffrage, as destructive of the best interests of the people and State of Louisiana, and dangerous to its safety. I look upon the emancipation ordinance as the most vital stroke at the life of the nation. By this unfol,tunate act you virtually say to the loyal men of the fourteen slave States, that the reward or penalty of lovalty is to be despoiled of their property against their will and without compensation, and no one is so simple as to suppose that the loyal men of those States will lay down their arms to be robbed of that property they have acquired under the guarantee of the parent government. We virtually tell them to fight to the knife, and the knife to the hilt, or be despoiled. I vote No, no, no. Mr. BErI,.-With all my heart, I vote rider adopted. No riders were offered up to article 154.1 Art. 154. As soon-as a general election can be held under this constitution in every parish of the State, without hostile molestation or interference, the governor shall, by proclamation, or in case of his failure to act, the Legislature shall, by resolution, declare the fact, and order an election to be held at a day fixed in said proclamation or resolution, and within sixty days from the date thereof, for governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, auditor, treasurer, attorney general, and superintendent of education. The officers so chosen shall, on the fourth Monday after their election, be installed into office; and shall hold their offices for the terms prescribed in this constitution, counting from the second Monday of Jamnuary next preceding their entering into office in case they do not enter into office on that date. The terms of office of the State officers elected on the 22d day of February, 1864, shall expire on the installation of their successors as herein provided for; but under no state of circumstances shall their term of office be construed as extending beyond the length of the terms fixed for said offices in this constitution; and, if not sooner held, the election of their successors shall take place on the first Monday of November, 1867, in all parishes where the same can be held, the officers elected on that date to enter into office on the second Monday of January, 1868. Mr. SHAw-I move as a rider to strike out " without hostile molestation or interference." [The motion was adopted. N o rid er was offered to artic le 155.] Mr. ABELL-I move the rejection of the yes. Mr. CAZAP,AT —Mr. President, believing that this free State constitution is calcu lated to benefit the people of Louisiana, I record my vote in favor of its adoption as a whole, and vote yes. Mr. DUANE-X-S the noblest act of my life, I vote yes. [Applause.] 602 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 603 from the old world, who, by their labor and perseverance constantly augmented the power and wealth of the country; the State was aggrandized; in a word, we lived under the sweet reign of prosperity. What were the causes that produced this wonderful fertility? There is nothing conceal ed or difficult of explanation about them. The principal cause of our power simply consisted in the great fertility of our soil, our valuable and desirable products, which weere exchanged for those of foreign nations, thus bringing back to us every species of commodity that could contribute to our wants and well being. Thus, then, are we indebted to agriculture, which is the true and only inexhaustible fountain of public or private wealth, and this agriculture, thus to speak, was the labor of negro slaves. We are now groan ing unde r the painful weight of a crue l an d d esola ting war. The immense deposits of merchandise which formerly constituted our pride, have long since disappeared; our wharves are deserted; our streets are solitary; sadness reigns where late was happiness and joy; and in whatever way we turn our eyes, we behold horrid misery, where of late was plentiful abundance. Clouds and darkness are above us, which become more dense and dark as we gaze upon the horizon of the fiuture. And what is the cause of this profound difference-this change so radical and so repulsive? It is not necessary to attribute to unknown causes, or to seek in obscurity for that which presents itself before us in the clearest light. It is the insecurity which war has substituted for peace; it is because idleness struts about insolently where before was seen the most laborious diligence and industry; it is because the interest of the few has usurped the place of the many and better class; agricultural labor has ceased from causes known to everybody, the explanation of which would become odious; with it also have productions, commerce and happiness disappeared. No one having the least knowledge of the circumstances by which we are surrounded, can deny the truth of this reason Mr. DUFRESNE —In the name of Louisiana. I vote no. Mr. HEiRh-T here ar e c ertain things in this constitution w hich I hav e oppo sed upon principle; but, sir, the re a re so many g o od f eatures in the constitution, that I think i f it isap ed s adopted as a whole, under the present circumstances, the people of Louisian a will b e be tter off, and I vot e yes. [Applause.] Mr. MENDIVERRI-Befo re I vote, I wish to giv e my re asons, and ask that my colleague be all ow e d to read. Mr. MOWi'TAnIAT —I mo ve it be spread on the minutes with out b eing read. [This being objected to, it was read by the secretary, as follows:] Mr. MENDIVERRI-Mr. President and genitlemen of the C onve ntion: the q ues tion of slav ery, which is the prime cause of the desolating w ar now in existence, is one of the mos t embarrass ing that can present itself to th e consideration of the statesman; and yet more so is it to on e who is entrusted by his constituents to a legislative assembly, charged with the intrica te du ty of reforming and amending the constitution of a S tate s nd as renowned as that of Louisiana, in order that the fu ndam e ntal laws of said S tate may be in harmony with the requirements of the age-of an enlightened civilization. Whilst on the other hand, the momenltous interests growing out of an d e st ablished under the shadow of an institution essentially vicious, merits respect, although as approved and authorized by the supreme code of the country, it has given rise to certain usages,. customs and traditions, from which it is impossible to be divested. A retrospective glance at the past will enable us to judge better of the present, and determine with greater prudence what may be necessary for the future. Four years ago the State of Louisiana was one of the most prosperous commercial countries on the globe; not only the necessaries of life, but also the luxuries and superfluities thereof reigned everywhere in abundance throughout the whole extent of its territory. The greatness of our resources and the prolific character of our soil, attracted hither annually thousands of inhabitants DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION science, equity, humanity, civilization, the interests of the slaves themselves even exclaim aloud, no! Among us the slave has been deprived of his rights as a man; he has been classed by the State as a CHATTEL. The inevitable result of such an iniqui tious institution has been that the condition of slavery finds itself blended with our wealth, and consequently with our power and happiness. This isunfortunate. Pro nounce immediate abolition, the negro will be free; ignorant of the true significa tion of the word "liberty," he will interpret for another word "license." Liberty, ac cording to his comprehension, would be idleness, idleness would become misery, and, misery degenerate into crime. These are not gratuitous suppositions. Look at the West Indies, the English and French Antilles; look at Hayti, where within a few months past a drama was enacted near the very gates of the capital, that would put cannibals to the blush; in fact look at the sad spectacle now presented to us in our own Louisiana. The negro, I repeat, has not been con sidered among us as a man, but as a thing -a CHATTEL, he has not received the least moral or intellectual education, much less a political one; the negro, so to speak, is not apt to enjoy a liberty he cannot com prehend. To make him free without this ppreevious preparation is absurd, as he is not prepared by any qualification-it is to ask tishim to perform a great work, whilst depri viiig him of the necessary implements to accomplish it; it is, in a word, taking the beginning for the end. And when from a human being, sugcepti. ble of being elevated to the level of a civiliza tion required by the present age, through the medium of education and labor pro perly directed, you have made, not only a useless, but a vicious being-a being not comprehending the sacred obligation of "gaining his bread by the sweat of his brow "-shall we have discharged the obligations which religion, humanity and jubstice demand? No! We shall have but taken him from the hands of a master, although it may be for his own interest, care and protection, in ing, and no one admitt ing i t but wil l desire to a meliorate the sad co nditio n in which we find oursel ves. In this situation, the peo ple of Louisia na, struggling with s orrow and m iser y, h ave asked themselves in tones of bitter anguish, i f the evils which menace them in the future may not be greater than th ose of the present; and have enquired if if there be not, i n our social organization, some hi d den vice which is corroding and kil ling it in the bud. In this situation, I say, the people of Louisiana have called together a Conven tion, charging it with the emendation and reforma tion of its fundamental laws, in th e hope that the evils under which they have suffered may cea s e and the lost prosperity b e reg ained, pl acing f or its foundation jus tice and right. Thus, then, the Convention has met together for the purpose of recon ciling discordant ideas —to confirm diverse interest and to form a complete whole out of regular and separate elements, at pres ent scattered and heterogeneous. It has not assembled together for the purpose of passing judgment on the past, and spending its time in declamations of doubtful utility: its purpose is to ameliorate the present and give security against the dangers of the future; to constitute, to legislate, and firmly establish. Its purpose is to build up-not to destroy. Imbued with these sentiments, the first question that presents itself for your exam ination, is that of slavery! This is, un doubtedly,. the veritable worm that is gnawing the vitals and destroying the happiness of' our people. Slavery is. an institution equally repugnant to right and conscience, that is to say, to public as well as to private opinion; slavery, considered in the light of religion and philosophy, is a crime. Considered in a political point of view, it is a leprosy upon society; we recognize this truth, and no one desires more sincerely than myself to see every vestage of it disappear from our soil. But in expressing this desire, I naturally and irresistibly ask myself the question, can slavery be immediately suppressed, under existing circumstances? Perfect right, and the heart, answer yes! Whilst on the other hand, reason, con 604 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. By this proposition I seek to avoid both extremes, in this delicate and painful matter; inaction is as criminal as precipitate haste; to find a just medium wherein reason and justice reside, and abandon all visionary theories; as well those which deny right and justice to the whole human race, as well as those who seek to ignore the circumstances by which we are surrounded. Gradual emancipation will, in my esti mation, be the best method to bring about a consummation so devoutly to be wishedthe interest of both masters and slaves. Let us declare that slavery shall be abolished at the period of ten years, with a compensation to loyal owners; let a generation pass, and the generation then on the stage of action, educated by a wise and intelligent government, will know how to appreciate and put in practice the benefits of a liberty, which, if untimely conceded to to them, would be a sword in the hands of a child. Prohibit the further acquisition of slaves, and that will destroy the immorality of the traffic, concede to them the enjoyment of the civil law, let their marriages and those of their children be legitimate, and that' will open their hearts to the sweet ties of family fti affetion, and with it, the whole circle of virtues of ev ery description. Digest laws for the punishment of the slave s, without leaving it to the di scretion of the masters and slaves. Let colleges be established by the State, whe re the futur e freedmen may open their eyes upon the ligh t o f truth an d religion, and be instructed in the m o st useful elementar y branches. Let labor be decreed as the fudamental law, and prosecute idleness and vagrancy to the utmost limit. Finally, let the laws be digested in the most h umane m anner, and ea sy of execution, and when the hour of liberty is proclaimed to the slave, those who are now pariahs and outcasts, will then be useful men; and we, without having destroyed any individual interest or right of property, we have increased the value of all, without the least infringement upon justice-we will have resolved the most difficult problem of modern times, and at the same time satisfied the exigencies of equity and just rights. or der to transfer him to vice and ignorance a nd unb ridled p assions, to a tyrant a thousand times worse than the first-to dire misery! and, to speak with truth and candor, between that slavery which affords protection, food a nd clothing, and that slav ery which destroys by cold and hunger, I greatly prefer the former. To s uppress slavery suddenly and at a simpl e b lo w, is t o destroy one abomination th rough the me dium of another abomination. T o ca st down this domestic institution now, is to depri ve the whole people of the m eans of existence. And wh y sh ou ld the int erests and condition of four h undred thous and negroes prevail over and occupy our whole care,s to the neg lec t and ruin of the interest and condition of 800,000 white persons! a nd when we behold t he misery which our ruinous civil war has engendered, and is now causing in Europe, we should pause and consider what confusion, and endless evils would be brought upon the world, by an act, praiseworthy in itself, but iniquitous in its rash precipitation, because it will necessarily cause the agricultural products of our State, a State larger than many of the kingdoms of the old world, to be forever withdrawn from the commerce of the world. For, when we have nothing to offer to foreign nations and others in exchange, how are we to support ourselves? How can the closed channel of emigration be reopened? How can plenty be brought forth from the dried-up fountains of our wealth? And how can the lost happiness be brought back to our beloved country? Let us suppress the abominable institution of slavery. Let us suppress it at an early period-but let us suppress it in such a manner as to remove afar off incalculable evils, and produce benefits to the slave, the master. and to the whole State. In this way alone ca.n the Convention fulfill the mission which it was called upon to perform, in this manner it will prove itself worthy of giving laws to a sovereign and independent people, who will approve of their acts, seeing they are marked with the seal of true philanthropy and with a sincere desire to labor for the happiness of the community. 605 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Mr. POYNOT-I have been since the orl ganization of this Convention in favor of an elective judiciary, but having failed in carrying out my promise to my constituents, in their name, on the adoption as a whole, I , vote "yes." - Mr. SRITH-Believing the slave-holding t portion of Louisiana is eminently disloyal, for the safety of the only free government - on the face of God's earth and the honor , of the flag of our Union, I vote "yes."' [Applause.] Mr. STOCKER-AS SO many gentlemen have explained their votes, it may be expected of me; but, sir, after thinking over the matter seriously-for it is a matter upon which I have reflected deeply-I cannot find I have any explanation to make, and therefore I vote yes. Mr. STUMPF-I was in favor of compen sating the loyal slave owners, but as that has been denied I vote no. Mr. SULLIVN-I vote no. Mr. TERRY-I came here elected on the free State ticket and advocating a free State the same as my able colleague [Mr. Sulli van]. Thoug,h I must say I am not here to force my own individual voice on this Con vention. I have always tried to ascertain the views of my constituents, and it is a most s ingular thing that while the gentle man comes from the same district as myself and his constituents are the same as mine mine sustain me in supporting the adoption of this constitution and for the welfare of Louisiana, and to aid in the practical re construction of the Union. I vote "yes" in their name. Mr. WENCK-I endorse fully the act of emancipation and support it with all my heart, although some of the articles have met with my opposition. I vote " yes." Mr. WELIS-I am opposed to everything in the constitution that belongs to the General Assembly; but, sir, for the welfare of my native S[ate and maintenance of the re publican government that flag represents, I cast-my vote for the entire constitution [Applause.] Mr. -WILsoN-Mr. President and gentlemnen of the Convention': the police and laborers' bill, and the article 67 in Executive Department, title IV, which empowers the To work in any other manner, would be to wander in a path strewn with errors and watered with tears, and destroy ourselves beyond all hope of redemption. Mr. MONTAMAT-I have some objections to several of the articles in this constitution, but I am will ing that the people of Louis iana shall decide whether they will accept or reject it. I vote " yes." Mr. MORRIS-I have a particular objec tion to article 134, as well as to article 100, which should read'; viva voce," instead of yeas and nays, but I vote "yes" on the adoption as a whole. Mr. E. MLRPHY-I h ave been a citizen of Louisiana for 48 years, and h ave always b ee n a slave-holder, but with all my hear t I vote " yes." [Applause.] Mr. O'CoNNTR —I am not in favor of secess ion and am in favor of the free State party that sent me here, therefore I vote ,, yes." Mr. ORR-I am in favor of emancipation -immediate emancipation. I voted for that measure in this Convention and I have signed the ordinance of emancipation, but the Committee on Arrangement to whom this constitution was submitted, have seen prop er to ch ange, and I contend in an unwarrantable manner, certain articles of this constitution that have been passed on their third reading, and became a part of the constitution. They took away amendments to bills and made separate sections of them, thereby exposing the bills to defeat, and I am afraid it was done for that purpose. Now, Mr. President, I consider their action unwarrantable —that they went beyond the power conferred upon them by this Convention, and although I favor emancipation and will vote for it to-morrow should it come up before the people, and sign anything in regard to immediate emancipation, certain clauses and certain parts of this constitution are objectionable in my view. One is, granting to the'Legislature the right to confer upon the colored race the right of suffrage in this State. The change of parts of the constitution is another. I am therefore constrained against my own wishes under these circumstances to vote "InO." 606 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. State of Louisiana to draft into the militia of the State citizens of foreign powers, meet with my disapprobation. But, in view of the great fact, that our constitution, made and adopted by ius, overthrows and annulls the black code and the damning principle of slavery-the formal cause of this rebellion-and gives to the oppressed a home and an asylum, regardless of race or color, I vote for the constitution as a whole. Mr. HLLs —Before the vote is declared, I move that the president of the Convention be requested to cast his vote, and that all members not present also have an opportunity to record their votes on the adoption of this constitution. Mr. T]IOMAs —1 amend by substituting "required." Mr. HILLS-I accept the amendment. [Carried. Mr. Newell, on showing authority from Mr. Taliaferro, who was absent from illness, to vote yes on the adoption of the constitution, recorded the vote of that gentleman. The president then announced the adoption of the constitution by the following vote:] YEAS-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Burke, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Geier, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Hear d, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Mann, Maurer, Montamat Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Nor mand, O'Conner. Ong, Payne J., Poynot Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer. Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson and Mr. President -66. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Buckley, Decker, Dufresne, Gastinel, Gruneberg, Gaidry. Knobloch, Maas, Mayer, Mendi verri, Orr, Stumpf. Sullivan, Waters-16. PREsIDENT —Gentlemen, no greater glory can a man accomplish than giving liberty to his fellow man. I vote yes. [Enthusi astic applause.] The constitution of Louisi ana is adopted as a whole, in Convention, this 22d of July, i8(;4. [Applause and ringing cheers.] Mr. MOm TAMAT-e I move that t he Enroll - ing Committee be instructed to have the constitution'enrolled by to-morrow at 12 o'clock. PRESIDEZr —I will state to the Convention that under its resolution, the pen with which the ordinance of emancipation was signed is to be presented to Major Gen. Banks to-morrow, when we adjourn; With regard to the Enrolling Committee, I have no doubt they wi ll compel their clerks to labor faithfully, whether the constitution can be enrolled b y 12, to-morrow, or not. [Mr. Montamat's motion was carried.] Motion to adjourn.] PRESIDENT-Before I declare the vote, I will state to the Convention, that under the power confided to me by article 155, I appoint the True Delta newspaper, the Era newspaper, and the German Gazette newspaper, as the three papers to be selected by the president of the Convention —of which number the two first shall publish the- constitution in English and French, and the latter in German from the period of the adjournment of the Convention until the elec tion for the ratification or rejection of this constitution, on the first Monday of Septem ber, 1864. [A motion to adjourn was carried.] Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Barrett, Bantm, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Maas, Mann. Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Ong, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy. Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-82. 607 SA.TURDA.Y July 23, 1864. [The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, and was called to order by the president. After prayer by the Rev. Mr. Strong, the secretary called the roll, and the following members answered to their names:1 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION matter more importance than it really de serves. Any journal of the State has a right to fairly criticise our proceedings, no doubt, but certainly, sir, there is a point at which it s hould stop, and that the Times has exceeded its right, I have but very little doubt. But we must remember, Mr. President, that if we h ave be en a little se - verely chastised, it may be we have some times been spared when we deserved it. Therefore let us waiv e the whole matter, and I movetht hat th e whole thing be post poned indefinitely. I think it wi ll equ ally well subserve the ends of justice and guard the interests of the State and the honor of the members and the Convention as a body. Mr. FOLEY-I move to lay that motion on the table. [The yeas and nays were ordered, and the motion to table was carried by the follow ing vote:] YEAS-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Burke, Colliii, Cook T., Cut ler, Davies, Duane, Diipaty, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, H ire, Howes, Maas, Ma nn. Murphy E., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Poynot, PNrsell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Spel licy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Tal iaferro, Terry, Thomas, Wells, Wilson-47. NAYs - Messrs. Abell, Balch, Baum, Buckley, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook J. K., Decker, Dufresne, Fish, Fosdick, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Heard, Hills, Maurer, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Ong, Orr, Pintado, Purcell J., Shaw, Sullivan, Thorpe, Waters, Wenck -31. Mr. CAZABAT-Mr. President, this at tempted trial seems to me rather a strange and novel proceeding; for my part, sir, I am opposed to it from beginning to end, and protest against the action of the Convention in the premises. The article published in the New Orleans Times, of which Mr. Thomas P. May is the ostensible and responsible editor and proprietor, was perhaps calculated to create a wrong sensation and impression upon the public mind, both at home and abroad, in regard to the conduct of our honorable president, but since said article has been already denounced emphatically as " a most infamous and mnalicious libel,') it seems to me [ Messrs. Crozat, Bofill and Knobloch were excused for non-attendance. In obedience to a resolution of yesterday, the sergeant-at-arms presented Thomas P. May, Esq., at the bar of the Convention accompanied by his counsel, Hon. J. S. Whitaker, and Major W. W. Howe, acting assistant adjutant general of the staff of the major general commanding the depart ment.] PRESIDENT-Mr. Thomas. P. May, you have been brought to the bar of this Con vention this day, under and by authority of the following resolution, adopted by this Convention, July 22, 1864. '-Resolved, That the sergeant-at-arms be ordered to take immediate possession of the paper called the New Orleans Times, and that the publication of the paper be sus pended until its responsible editor, Thomas P. May, Esq., be brought before this Con vention, and purge himself of the libel he has published in the issue of this day, re garding the proceedings of this Convention on the 21st July, 1864." What, sir, have you to say in response thereto? Mr. MAY-I am here with the provost marshal, to obey a military order issued by Major Gen. Banks, and not in obedience to the resolution of this Convention. At the proper time, in the proper place, and in pursuance of the fbrms of law, I will answer to any charge made against me or my paper, the Times. That is my answer. Mr. HENDERSON-I move, sir, that that be treated as an additional contempt of this body. We are in a civil tribunal, and I am astonished that a gentleman who occupies such a position in the State of Louisiana should come and offer such a reply. Therefore I move that charges be, preferred against him, and that he be brought before this body for their action. Mr. ABEL-Mr' President, it seems to me we have been here a long time, and I believe it is the interest of the public as well as the desire of the members of this Convention, and all the authorities in power, that we should bring this Convention to a close. I desire that our labors should be completed this day, but as this question has come up, I will repeat what I said yesterday, that I think we give this 608 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION (6F LOUISIANA. 609 it should occupy, at least before the friends of liberty. Will you pretend to be at the same time the law makers, the law expounders, and the law enforcers in this case? Where is your authority for such summary proceeding? What rig ht have you to try a citize n for an alleged violation of the law? Wil l you be the accusers, the witnesses, the prosecutors, the judges, and what else? If the gentleman has been willfully dis respectfll in his language towards the wort hy and be loved pre sident of this Conventioil, if any member feels offended at the article in question, if Mr. Thomas P. May h a s, as you contend, viola ted the l aw o f his country, if he has abused the freedom of the press, go and appeal to the courts of justice and bring a regular sui t fo r libel. There is the proper place, and t here only, at the pr o p er time, in pursuance of the forms an d rules of law you can make him responsible for any charge brought against him or his paper, the T imes. Otherwise, gentlemen, you are assuming too much power, a s you are without juris - diction, and instead of respect your course will be calculated to bring contempt upon this body. Now le t us refelr to the law ap plicabl e to this case. The article 110 of the new constitution provides that "all cours shall be open; and every personfor any injury done him in hi s pro perty, person and rep utation, shall have r emedy by due course o f law," &c., &c. W te h ave also a dopte d a rticle 111i in the same constitution, which expressly declares that "the press shall befree; every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on a ll subjects, beiing responsible for an abuse of this liberty." Responsible to whom? Responsible only to the aggrieved and co mpl aining party; responsible on ly before the duly authorized tribunals of the State of Louisiana; respon sible only betore a court of competent ju risdiction in the case, to be tried according I to law by an impartial jury. Such is the doctrine recognized by the lfundamental law of the land made by this Convention, I mean the free State constitu the Convention should deem this sufficient and satisfactory. So far as the remarks of that newspaper are concerned, they were in my humble opinion uncalled for, unbecoming and unfounded in fact; but, sir, when a fellowcitizen, no matter what may be his position in life, the lowest or the most exalted, is brought at the bar of this Convention, to be made responsible here for the bold and fearless public expression of his sentiments or opinions,true or false, right or wrong, it matters not, I must say at once, without the least hesitation, that you are assuming, indeed, a most extraordinary, illegal and dangerous power, you are going entirely too far beyond your province, and I am ready and willing to stand upon this floor, solitary and alone, if necessary, against the majority, to sustain, vindicate and defend as far as possible with my humble voice, the great fundamental principles of liberty which I admire and cherish, and these are "ltle freedom of speech and th3 freedom of the press." [Great applauise]. In the first place, gentlemen, you ought to know and remember that the great theory and practice of all republican government, wisely requires that each of the three departments-executive, legislative and judiciary-should be kept as distinct and separate as possible. This principle has been duly observed in the new constitution. If the individual who makes the law is empowered, at the same time, either to decide or execute the same, there is at once an end to freedom. As members of this Convention, as framers of the new constitution, yon are in the truest sense of the word, the supreme law-makers of Louisiana; if so, DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION tion, framed, no doubt. with some imperfections and shortcomings, but which, I t r ust, will be ratified by the people, because it will, I believe, benefit Lou isiana. It then becomes our sacred duty to be the first to respect the law placed in said constitution. If it is not yet the lawof the land, because it has not b een adopted by the people; then the constitution of 1852 which contains the same provision in regard to the freedom of the press, is still in force and existence. If ev ery citize n ha s th e right to freely speak and publ ish hi s sentiments on all subjects, how much more should a newspaper be permit ted t o criticiz e t o the fulles t extent the act s of the public servants of Louisiana, th ee m c o f he mere creatures of the sove reign people! The press claims justly the privilege to discuss public mea sure s, an d the a cts of public men, — t he press sh ould b e maintained by all true lovers of free government in the righ t to criticize f ree ly, on all occasions, and und er all circu mst ances, the proceedings of deliberative bodi es, paio bono enpblico, fo r the publ ic g ood. e The right of a j ou rnalist should be held as sacred, as necessary an d a s imprescriptable as the right of the legislator. Call me " secesh," " copperhead sympathiser,"p or whatever you please, the record her e will sh ow that I was the first man in this Convention to raise my voice on behalf of imm edi ate and t incoinditional emancipati on, in a ccord anc e with th e spirit of the imm ortal pr oclamation of PresidentLincoln. Besides, the first and second articles of your free State constitution are principally due to myself and the chairman of the committee on emancipation. But, sir, when you bring before this body a resolution, Iwhich, if passed, will abridge or destroy the freedom of speech and of the press, I, for one, never can, and never will sanction it, or countenance it by my vote or voice. [Applause]. Mr. HITLs-Mr. President: I, sir, from the first, have been oppossed to any action in this matter. When the proposition was made yesterday in regard to it, I moved to lay it upon the able. My views of the subject have undergone no change. I think it unbecoming and unworthy of the dignity of this body to take any official notice of the publication. I am not here, sir, to defend that publication or its statements.' The honored president of this Convention arose in his seat yesterday, and characterized it as an infamous libel uipon himself and upon the Convention. O0, her miembers of the Convention also characterized it in equally strong terms, and it seemns to me the matter should have ended there. A man, sir, who publishes a malicious falsehood about others, and who goes forth with lthe ifalsehood and slander brande(l uipol his forehead, is already sufficiently piisiilhed. The mark upon him is not less than that upon Cain, the first murderer. Thte t'rea,t fact was told us that a " good name in man and woman is the immediate jetswel of their souls." I say when that statement was characterized as a calumny, an intamous libel and a slander, and was fastened upon its author as such, that the matter should have ended, and the Convention shoutld have taken no further notice of it. It is purely a personal matter, and I take it we are not here to settle the private quarrels of ary me:t;ber of this Convention. If the lIlesident feels he has not been sufficiently asveDged by branding that slander as it des(erved, then he has a legal remedy in the courts. If that member who 'is so pathetically described in the article as having received the application of the boot, feels he is awl ievw d, he, too, has his remedy against the individual echo inflicted that blow. (App!mlmtse and -lmlghter.) It seems to me, gentlemnen, this is trifling away our time, trifling away the money of the people, tr ifling wit h olin oS w n digni ty, ang d i Eam opposed to the whole p)roceedinges from beginning to end,,and I shall opp"ose it and vote against it;il every f,rm and shape whatever. Mr. SMITII —Mr. President: I say I am not opposed to these proceedings. I have seen the effects of the publication of that paper ever since the Convtention first convened. Show m,e a sing,le paragraph in that paper that has said anything in favor of this Convention. Is this the first legally constituted body since this State was precipitated into open, armed rebellion, by men whose ob.]eet it was to break up the Government of' the Uuitttd States? Do we 610 I AND AMll.ND?,IENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. represent the people. or do we not? Here is an infamous libel, not on one individual, but from the honored president of this Convention to every member. I see no "black eyes;" no main to whom the "boot was applied." I s-e no' broken chairs," and every membetr will )bear me out when I assert it is fatlse-every word of it. [Applause.] Now, sir, this thing has gone into print, and the paper has gone )broadcast all over the lanil. an(l (do you tell me, gentlemen, that it requires no action? Do youtell me, when mnen raise their voices and uitter things of that kind to lower this Convention in the minds of the people and the government, that it shoilld not be noticed, and that, too, when it has been more than once asserted that cvr ry sympathy here was with the othei side? I, toi one, will never vote to pass it over, and I am f)r action, and inmmediate action iupon it. [ApplauIse.] Mr. HENDERS NT-Mr. Pesi(lent: this question is one of the most important that has ever come beftre this body. It has been said that because this man belongs to the editorial corps he has a right to say anything he pleases. and should not be held responsible for what he says. Sir, but a few weeks since. the Picayune and a French paper published a o-called proclamation of the president. which turned out to be spurious. Neverthe'ess such was the offence committed that these two papers were suippressed by military amthority. Mark you, there is a long distance between Washington and New Orleans, and those papers may have published it innocently. They had a right to publish it, bl)t by the same law that conferred the right they were responsi ble for their publication. We find anillustration of the doings of Copperheads in the case of Gen. Dix, who enforced the military order of the president of the United States. We have another Coppeihead enemy, in my estimation far more infamous, in Mr. May, editor of the 2anes. In a free State where there is no rebellion —no martial law declared, if the president deems it necessary, he may stop a paper because of libel, as was done, but how much ground there is for doing it when the man in the disguise of hypocrasy pretend~ to be a free State man and publishes thi ngs that h inder t he progres s of a fre e State more th an the ar my of Jeff. Davis. Sir, had I the military au t hority, he w ould not appear befor e this Convention. I would send him to Dixie. [Cheers.] As to his position as a writer, there is no one in this community who respects him more highly in that capacity than myself. The editorial articles of that paper indicate ability, whether he be the actual writer or some one else. My rule of action is this: when a man hig h i n position and great in power violates the law, his offence is aggravated according to his superior advantages. In regard to this, gentlemen, look at this morning's Times.- He comes out this morning in an article on the freedom of the press, without referring to the facts of yesterday. There is nothing extenuating, but only adding insult to injury. He says he has a right to criticise a public body. What member opposes that right? But when he endeavors to make capital for Louis Napoleon, for Queen Victoria and for Jeff. Davis, he is unworthy of being an editor, and I hope the president of the United States will remove him from the office he holds, and send both him and his paper beyond the Federal lines. [Applause.] I have said all I wish to say. Personally, I have not much knowledge of the gentleman. At the first I said if he was present and stated that the president was incapable of performing his duties and also made a wrong decision, all of which I will swear is false-for the president was correct according to parliamentary usage-I would personally denounce him as a libeler and a liar. [.Applause.] I use the terms in a political sense, and mean to cast no reflectron upon him as a man. But I look upon him as a public officer and the publisher of a paper that purports to be a free State organ, yet Jeff. Davis never published anything stronger than the doctrine of the gentleman on yesterday morning. Mr. CUTIER-Mr. President, and gentlemen of the Convention: I had not the distinguished honor of being present this morning, when the prisoner at the bar made his explanation to yolu and to this Convention. But I have been informed-of 611 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION appeared in larger letters than did the disIgraceful article in yesterday morning's issue? Was not that slander as emphatic and as largely displayed as would have been the eulogy and praise of Grant after the capture of Richmond? [Cries of "yes," "yes."] I do not know but that the characters used in the condemnation and denunciation of this Convention, while discharging its duty, were larger than they would have been on the occasion alluded to. Then, sir, it is necessary for us faithfully and impartially to discharge our duty. We must first inquire has this body the right to act as we propose? Is there any law by which the president of this body can arrest Mr. Thomas P. May, the author of that scurrilous article and libel, or is there no such authority? We find that Gen. Banks, in his attempt to re-frame this State, both by force of arms and by reproducing civil authority, has called forth this body and empowered us to aid and assist in restoring this State to the Union. Now, let me say to you, that if there is any obstacle thrown in the way of this general progress, whosoever does so must be put out of the way. It has been said by the gentleman from St. Mary's, (Mr. Smith,) with perfect candor and correctness, that since this Convention has been assembled, it has been the misfortune of the members of this body to read daily in that paper, (the Times) harsh epithets, inuendoes and improper insinuations against the acts and c,)in duct of this assemblage. If it is to go forth to the people of Louisiana, and the entire loyal population of the United States that this Convention is a set of drunken men, who on a certain day committed outrages the most disgraceful-all this is to be published in large letters in the Times-it will certainly carry with it, if not contradicted, a kind of reputation which will redound to our injury and the injury of the great cause in which we are all engaged. Suppose a hundred secessionists and rebels should daily assemble about this hall, and that the president of this Convention on account of the noise and confusion, should send out and arrest them. That act would be justified by the very nature- of the case, through the exercise of the power vested the natur e, character and ext en t of hi s apology, a nd h eartily concur with what has been heretofore remarked-that instead of it s be ing a n ap ology, it was a second contemp t o f the au thor ity of this Convention. [A pplause. ] Mr. President, I admit th at this is a very- grave and important question, and one deserving the serious consid eration of every member of this Convention before the final action is taken the preon. The reasons why I take this view of the subject are simply these: that some three years ago this State and its laws were swept away, and now when Louisiana is trying to return to that government which is her proper source of origin, it is, in my estimation, highly improper for any man who pretends to maintain a character and position for loyalty, to thwart the slightest measure tending to that end. On this important question, on this important occasion, and on this all-important day, which is, I hope, to be the last meeting of this body, the question presented is, shall the acts and the authority of this Convention be treated with contempt by any person in the State of Loutisiana, or within the Federal lines? [Cries of "No!" "No! "] To Mr. Thomas P. May, in his character as a man and as a gentleman, I have not the slightest objection and no fault to find; but he is responsible as the ostensible editor of the Daily Times newspaper. He has published a scurrilous falsehood and a set of lies, infamous in their character, and pernicious in their influence against the action of this Convention. If this was only to affect Us individually, I would not, so far as I am concerned, care a straw; I would not raise my voice to-day if this was the case; but it affects the character of this body most immediately, and throws a great obstacle in the way of the adoption of the labors of this Convention by the people of Louisiana. Besides it is in bad taste. Suppose, sir, that the immortal, the unparalleled and unequalled Grant was to be on this day, or had on yesterday been announced as having taken Richmond, (and the day is not far distant when that will be so announced,) [applause] and the Times had been disposed to publish that news to the people, let me ask you if it would have 612 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. signs of Major General Banks in calling it. Would it not have been better for Mr. Thos. P. May to have inserted in his paper something like this-and it would have been true: "In the Convention yesterday there was a little farce —a little quarrel —arising out of the fact that some of the members opposed the president while the president in turn opposed the members, resulting fin a ll y in rather a disorderly adjournment?" That would not have harmed our noble cause, nor struck a death-blow with a sledge hammer at the gentlemen of this body and the loyal people of Louisiana. Now, sir, he has lied, and with his eyes open has perpetrated a foul slander and libel, not against an individual merely, but against every member of this Convention, by printing that which is known to be a base falsehood. Not only has the Times propagated this here in the city of New Orleans, but abroad —thus bringing the great State of Louisiana into contempt before the authorities of the general government and the good people of our nation. Then, gentlemen, do you tell me that when this man is brought into this body, by the power of the law which surrounds us, and he refuses to offer an excuse, but folds his arms and tells you in an insulting manner that he is here by the order of Major Gen. Banks-and not for the purpose of answering to anything we may charge him with? If that does not amount to a second contempt to the authority of this body, tell me what could? Does it not? [Cries of'; yes," " yes."] Instead of acting as he has, what should he have done? There was an excuse for him; there is none now. Had he proposed an apology, I would have tried to have been the first to take his hand and pardon him, because I was, perhaps, the most severe against him on yesterday. When he entered this hall, he should have done so with due respect-not that we are Almighty God or his disciples, but because we hold a great power vested in us by the government of the Unite(d States and sanctioned by the people. [Applause.] If he had then arisen and said: "Mr. President and gentlemen-I am not the author of the few lines which appeared in my paper" — in every deliberative body. Well, sir, what is a small disturbance created by fifty or a hundred men in the street? It is con fined to the surrounding walls, and by closing the doors and windows we could exclude the noise and go on with our great work. Therefore, if the power of this body can be exercised to suppress an abuse of this kind, how much greater is the power and how much greater is the necessity for its exercise, when, with a dagger, a villain seeks to cut the very heart strings of the constitution we are trying t o ad opt. The publica tion c o me s forth, scandalous and libelous, a tissue of falsehood from beginning t o end- o f a character most conte m ptible, and, allow me the word, most damnable. I was aston ished th at any man who pretends to loyalty, could descend so low and so far forget himself as to be the author of', or sanction t he publi cation of, th e document published in the copperhead Times of the 22d inst. " He t hat is not for us is against us," I mean, against the great caus e i n w hich w e are all engaged. " No man," in t he la nguag e of J esus Christ, "can worship God and mammon " at the sam e time; he must be on the side of the L ord or the d evil; the re are but two to serve, and th ere is no middle ground. Although th e rebels may ca pture Baltimore and Washington, thus intimidating some m en, there are but two side s still-a man must either support the government of t he United States or violate h is oath of allegiance and go down to rebeldom and disgrace. However loyal this editor may be, whatever may have been his previous conduct, however high his position~ in the government of the United - States, matters not. These are tin trying t imes, wh en the country needs the benediction of Almighty God, the humble confession of every sinner and his prayer to the Giver of all good that a blessing may rest upon our labors. Therefore, I say, sir, that when this is the condition of affairs, the publication of such atrocious falsehoods was a high-handed piece of injustice and that it was an ungodly wrong thus to attempt the striking of a death-blow to the purposes and ends of this Conventionl, and the de 613 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION God knows that if I had been the commanding general of this department, though I cannot claim one-tenth part of his capacity, that no evening edition of the Times should have been issued on yesterday, nor any morning edition to-day. When we find a man who pretends not only to be loyal but the embodiment of loyalty, previous to election, and then find him abandoning his platform as soon as his friends are defeated, and opposing the very ends which he undertook to subserve, simply because they are not promoted to some position-we find in that man a character deeply stained with rebelism. Now, sir, if this be so, is it proper for this Convention to allow itself to be thus defamed? If this publication was true, my voice would not have been raised against it on yesterday, nor would it again to-day, because I fear the truth, if it is against me, while my disposition is to try to be right, and when right I fear neither man nor devil. Then, sir, having been here on yesterday, and knowing as does every other member of this Convention and every man outside, that this publication was a falsehood from beginning to end, I denounce its author and demand the punishment of Mr. Thomas P. May, for contempt of this Convention. There must have been a motive, an incentive in the publication of that article. Was it to promote the interest of the general government or the State? No, sir! It could not have been. It was to throw obstacles in the way of our work. It was perhaps to give a blow indirectly to the military and civil powers that be. It meant to tell the people of this State that this Constitution is corrupt and not to be voted for. That, sir, certainly was the intent and meaning of this publication. Let us, in conclusion, do justice; let us have no rashness or unfairness. We have, gentlemen, the power to act upon this. We are not only a Convention of the State of Louisiana, but a military power,-created and emanating from no other source than the military power, and existing by virtue of civil authority of the government of the United States. The president of the United States, having then vested us with this power, —there has never been such power wh ich I believe would have been true, for I thin k he writes but little himself. "I know not hing p ersonall y of th e tran saction in this Convention, on yesterday, but some of my employees, of whom I hav e many, may have done this in a spirit of prejudice. with a disposition to injure this body, and I, as the responsible edito r of th e T i mes, offer to you, sir, and this Convention my heartfelt regrets." Had he done this like a man, he w ould have been co rd ially received and pardoned, but when he comes here and bids defiance to this body, it is as much as t o say-" He re y ou ar e a mer e contemptible set of beings, so continuousl y drunk and ignorant, so without principles or consideration-that you are beneath my notice. I will not even condescend to inform you that I am ready to apologize at all." I say that such a man should be dealt with in the s everest manner; the president of the United States should be made cognizant as to whom he has made sub-treasurer; that the pres ident of the United States and his cabinet ought to know who is inteerbring with the proud progress of this Convention. [Enthusiastic applause.] They ought to know who it is that is throwing obstacles in the way of our armies-in the way of the success of our country and in the way of the returning people of Louisiana. There is but one way in which to do all this. Offer your resolutions to this effect and thus do justice to God, to man, and to yourselves. Let this man, May, know that this is a sacred body; that here, the great God has not refused his eye; that we have done works worthy the consideration of this State; yes, I repeat it, worthy of the consideration of the people of this State and of the people of every country on the face of'he earth. [Applause.] We are not perfect beings, for no man, though created by God in his own image, is perfect, but notwithstanding we, on yesterday, finished a Constitution, which I firmly believe will be acceptable to the people of the State and acceptable to the Congress of the United States. Then we have put the honest, loyal people of Louisiana in their true position. Let the rest go into rebeldom, and there remain. 614 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 615 vested in any legislative or deliberative body on the face of the earth as in this, unless it was in the Arkansas and Missouri Conventions, which were brought about in the same manner,-the loyal people of this State, within the Federal lines, have sent us here, thus embodying themselves. What more power do you want in a matter of this kind than that power which is inherent in the people? In this very hall, yes, in this very hall, during the session of the Secession Convention of 1861, I was sitting in that very gallery, when a gentleman entered, bearing an American flag. What was the result? It was such a contempt in the eyes of that august body of rebels that they instantly arrested and incarcerated him in prison. [Cries of "yes!" "That is so."] Then I do not lie as the Times does. [Laughter.] If you want nothing but an example of legislative power-there it is. If there is any such thing as the preservation of the dignity of this Convention, let us exercise our power now, and not postpone it until to-morrow, Monday, or any other day. Do it now! Let the States of Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, and all the rest understand that we are the people's loyal Convention. and determined to do our duty. [Applause.] What is the remedy? There is but one. Let that man go scot free to scandalize this Convention, to-morrow, and until this constitution goes before the people for its adoption or rejection. Let him go on with his paper; it necessarily has its influence and may result in the defeat of all our noble plans. It may have this tendency, for it is confederated with rebels and disloyal traitors, rattlesnakes and devils, to thwart our ends. Whenever there is a wrong there is a remedy. Send Thomas P. May to jail! Let him know that he lives in a land of liberty, but must not abuse that liberty. [Great Applause.] Suppress that infamous, lying paper -that is proper, also. Do it, I say. and when that is done, we shall have no more copperhead editorials or infamous libels. Again,- do not stop there,'- but request the military authorities to ask the president of the United States to withdraw the commission under which he holds office, and remove creants, stab a man in the back, nor punish severely the private acts of the editor of the Times, for I say not a word again st any other than public acts. It would be unfair, unjust, and unreasonable, as well as opposed to good policy, for this Convention to adjourn without letting the papers of this town-whether rebel, copperhead, or otherwise-know that this Convention has been a Union one, working with the purpose of perpetuating this Union, and also for the purpose of liberating this State from the power of the rebels. Do this and you will do justice-you will; commit no injustice; but do it at once! I now call upon the president of this body to arraign at its bar Thomas P. May. It now, sir, (addressing the president,) becomes your solemn duty, in the name of our nation, our liberty. and the vindication of character, to inform Mr. May of his wrong and then to sentence him to the necessary penalty-certainly, not less than imprisonment until the end of the Convention-the suppression of his paper until the Convention adjourns sine die. Mr. TERRY-1 move the previous question. [The motion was carried.] Mr. ABEI, —I rise to a question of order. The question is this: the gentleman in his answer declares that he appears here under orders from a higher power than we have, and we have never inquired what that au thority is. PRESIDENT-I have it on my desk and will read it. [Read.] HEADQUARTERS D)EPARTMENT OF THE GULF, New Orleans, 23d July, 1864. The provost marshal general is directed, upon receipt of this order, to take such measures as may be necessary to enable Mr. DeCoursey, sergeant-at-arms of the Constitutional Convention, to bring before that Convention Thomas P. May, Esq., as DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION YEAS-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Burke, Collin, Cook J. K., Cook T., Cutler, Davies, Duane, Du paty, Edwards, Ennis, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Healy, Hart, Henderson, Hire, Howes, Maas, Maurer, Murphy E., Newell, Normand, O'Conner, Payne J., Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schnurr, Seymour, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stiner, Stauffer, Taliaferro, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-49. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Balch, Buckley, Campbell, Cazabat, Decker, Dufresne, Fish, Fosdick, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, Grnne berg, Harnan, Heard, Hills, Kavanagh, Mann, Mayer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy M. W., Ong, Orr, Pintado, Schroeder, Shaw, Stumptf; Sullivan, Waters -31. PRESIDENT-Mr. Secretary, you will hand .the sergeant-at-arms a certified copy of these resolutions. Mr. Sergeant-at-arms you will carry this order of the Convention into effect.I Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I think we have now done all that is necessary in this matter. Mr. THoIl'A —Mr. President, I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That until otherwise fixed by the Legislature, the salary of the private secretary of the governor shall be twenty five hundred dollars per annum, and the salary of the chief clerk of the secretary of state shall be two thousand dollars per an num, payable by the auditor of public ac counts, quarterly, on their own warrants, and to take effect from the 4th of March, 1864. [The resolution was adopted on a rising vote-47 yeas to 18 nays.] Mr. THOMAS-I have a resolution to offer ini regard to business which will necessarily be unfinished at the time of the adjourn ment of this Convention. It is to provide for a committee to audit the bills which will necessarily be incurred after we adjourn. Resolved, That all bills, indebtedness and unsettled accounts of this Convention accruing at, or after its adjournment, shall be referred to a special auditing committee, to be composed of five members to be appointed by the president. No bills shall be paid without being examined, audited and approved by a majority of said committee; and bils so audited and approved shall be paid on the warrant of the president on the treasurer of the State, out of any moneys in the treasury of the State not otherwise appropriated. sistant treasurer of the United States, and proprietor and publisher of the New O r leans T im es newspaper, to a nswer to that body for an infringement of its privileges as a representative assembly of the people of L ouisiana. This order will be executed immediately. N. P. BA.NKS, Maj. Gen. Commanding. Official: W. W. HOWE, Major and A. A. A. Gen. Under that order Mr. May appears here in the custody of the sergeant-at-arms of thi s Convention. Gen. Bank s, as it wa s his duty to do, as a loyal citizen and a loyal gen era l, has given his aid to enforce the c ivil power of this Convention. What fur ther a ction do you choose to take? Mr. ABELL-I insist that Mr. May is bound to plead to this in s ome way. Mr. CUTLER-He has plead. Mr. THoMAS-I wish to offer some resolu tions, viz: Wherea s, Thos. P. May, Esq., editor and proprietor of the newspaper called the New O rleans T imes, published in the city of New Orleans, has, wi thin the past six months. published articles in sa id paper which, in the opinion of this Convention, were dis loyal in their sentiments to the government, and many of which were in contempt of this Convention; and Whereas, In the issue of said paper of the 22d of July, a gross libel was published upon the president and members of this Convention, and upon being brought to the bar thereof has refused to purge himself in any manner of said libel and contempt; therefore be it Resolved, That Thos. P. May, Esq., for said contempt, committed upon the president and members of this Convention, in publishing in said newspaper said libel, shall be imprisoned in the parish prison of the parish of Orleans for the space of ten days, unless this Convention sooner adjourns; and that the sergeant-at-arms be directed and authorized to carry this resolution into effect. Be it further resolved, That the military authorities of this department be respectfully requested by this Convention to suippress the publication of said newspaper. Be it further resolved, That the president of the United States be respectfully requested by this Convention to remove the said Thos. P. May, Esq., from the office of assistant treasurer of the United States, in New Orleans, that he now holds. Mr. TERRY-I move the previous question. [The motion was carried and the resolutions adopted by the following vote:] 616 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 617 P:ESIDENT-I appoint on the committee Messrs. Thomas, Montamat, Barrett, Crozat and Buckley. Mr. WELLIS —I have a resolution to offer: Resolved, That the reporters of this Con- vention each receive from the funds in the public treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of five hundred dollars, as extra compensation for their arduous labor during this Convention, and for the necessary work to be performed after the adjournment of this body-said sums to be drawn upon their own warrants. Mr. MONTAMAT-I have a substitute: Resolved, That the following employds of the Convention shall receive the following compensation, to be paid out of the funds of contingent expenses of this Convention: Sergeant-at-arms.................$200 00 Chief of enrolling clerks.......... 100 00 Enrolling clerks, (each)........... 100 00 Postmaster...................... 50 00 Doorkeeper..................... 100 00 Messengers, (each)................. 25 00 Reporter and assistants, (each).... 200 00 Mr. STINER —I move as an amendment: Resolved, That the sum of two hundred and fifty dollars each. be paid to Messrs. Matthew Whilldin and J. N. Russ, reporters, for services rendered to this Convention. Mr. MONTA)ArT-I accept the amendment. Mr. SMITH-I move the adoption of the substitute. Mr. SULLI-VAN —-I move the policemen be included for fifty dollars each. [The resolution, with Mr. Stiner's amendiment, was adopted.j Mr. ABELL-One of the reporters, M dr. Gallup, has performed very arduous duties. It is with the knowledge of the president and under his direction that he has per- formed the duties of the official reporter, | during the greater part of the session, in addition to his duty as assistant reporter;! I therefore offer the following: WIereas, During the absence of the ofli- C cial reporter the duty of reading and revi- sing the manuscripts and proofs, the comipilation of the debates and other duties of the position, have been performed under the direction of the president, by H. A. Gallup, Esq., assistant reporter, in addition to his duties as such — Resolved, That for such services so rendered H. A. Gallup receive, in addition to his salary as assistant reporter, the same compensation as is provided for the official reporter for such time as may be found due 78 for l seres rt h e himsel en tru sted the papers to him, and it is certainly a rightful claim upon this Convention for the pay as provided in this resolution. Mlfr. MO.NT.,tm-,iThat would give Gallup ELIbotit two thousand dollars in addition to what be has got already. 311X ATtE To. It makes little difference what it would give him. It is a mere matter of compensation. If he has done the work he is entitled to the compensation. AMer. MOLTAMATr-I understand that the DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION president. The secretary called the roll, and the following members answered to their names:] Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balchb, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Collin, Cazabat. Cook J. K., Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Gastinel, Geier, Gorlinski, i Gruneberg, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Heard, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Knobloch, Kugler, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Murphy M. W., Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pur sell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck, Wells, Wilson-80. [The dayvs proceedings were then opened with prayer by the Rev. Mr. Strong. The minutes of yesterday's proceedings were read.] Mr. CUTLER-Mr. President, if I am not laboring under a mistake, the minutes are not entirely correct, so far as to the appropriations to officers and employ4s are concerned. I remember that several resolutions were offered, several amendments were made, and I believe several substitutes, only a part of which were regularly drawn up and passed. I recollect that you stated that such of the resolutions as were not drawn up in writing, with a provision appropriating certain moneys in the treasury for their payment, could not be paid and should be offered over on Monday. I proposed that they should be immediately reduced to writing and finally acted upon, but a motion to adjourn was made and there the matter rests. That being the condition in which th e m at ter now stands, I have a resolution which I think] will remedy the difficulty, and w hich embraces all the cases not in due form Saturday, and I desire to correct the minutes. Mr. MO.NT.AIA.T —Mr. President: For my part, I shall oppose the motion. I offered a substitute in writing, properly framed, and it was passed. We cannot alter it without a reconsideration of the vote adopting it. If the secretary will read it you will see that it is right, and it has passed this Convention. Now, if the gentleman wants to repeal it, he. must get$a. recou other assistants have done the same duty a part of the time too. PRESIDENT-You can, if you choose, make a similar resolution respecting them. M r. MONTm.rcT-eI move that the other reporters and the police be included. PRESIDENT-I shall decide that the amend ment is not german to the question. [The resolution was adop ted by a ris ing vote-45 yeas to 15 nays.] Mr. WATERs-Mr. President, I now move t hat the rep o rter and each of the assistants receive f ive hundred dollars. [T he mo tion was carried by a rwcing vote -39 yeas to 33 nays. Mr. Thorpes resolution redistricting the State was taken upnd and adopted without d iscussion.] Mr. CUTLER —I now move that the sergeant-at-arms receive five hundred dollars as extra compensation. Mr. HiLIJs-I amend by adding and his assistants two hundred dollars each. [The motion was carried.] Mr. THORPE-As chairman of the Committee on Enrollment, I wish to report progress as far as the enrollment of the constitution is concerned. I would say that the enrolling clerks went to work and worked all night and have produced the entire constitution enrolled, but the committee have not yet had time to read it over and compare it with the constitution as adopted, and consequently are not prepared to report it. PRESIDENT —-Several of these motions tbr extra compensation are not in due form-a mere motion that this Convention appropriate a certain sum with nothing further, can never be paid. The resolution must appropriate the money and set aside a sum in the treasury to pay it, or provide that it shall be paid out of any money not otherwise appropriated. Gentlemen can reduce their resolutions to writing and they can be acted on on Monday. [On motion the Convention adjourned till Monday at 12 o'clock.] [The C onve ntion met, pursuant to adjournment, and was called to order by-the 618 Mo.-,,DAY, July 25,1864. AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 619 sideration. If he cannot do this, it will that the resolution, without containing the remain in force, and his resolution will not usual clause, "out of such money in the affect it-and, on my part, I will not move treasury as is not otherwise appropriated," a reconsideration, for I am satisfied with it would be nugatory, and that the treasurer as it stands. would not pay it. and that the resolution Mr. HIENDERSON —I remember that the as adopted would be of no effect. president remarked on Saturday, just after Mr. THORPE-I made a verbalappropriamy friend Judge Cutler moved that the tion which does not appear in the minutes sergeant-at-arms receive five hundred dol- at all. lars, and the motion had been carried, that [The question on the adoption of the the motion, being merely that a certain minutes was put to the House, and they officer receiveso much money, and being were adopted without amendment.] carried in that form, nothing could be Mr. CUrLER-I may very readily accept framed on it, that in order to make the the explanation of the president as the resolution effective, the words " out of any correct one, and in order that the officers money in the treasury not otherwise ap- in whose favor resolutions not in proper propriated" should have been added. On form were passed on Saturday may receive the other hand, Mr. Waters, after his motion the money as we intended they should, and had been put and carried, reduced it to to compensate a few others with respect to writing in proper form, and consequently whom no action has yet been taken, I offer the money, under that resolution was pro- the following resolution: perly appropriated. The president stated Resolved, That the following named offias to other moneys for which the motions cers of this Convention, and others, receive were not made in proper form that they |as extra compensation the following sums could come up in proper form on Monday {from the treasury of the State, on the war rant of the president, from money not otherThat is my recollection of the matter. wise appropriated: Mr. CxZABAT-Mr. President: In connec- To Hon. J. N. Carrigan, state lition with this subject I beg leave to say it brarian................... $500 00 brarian............$500 00 wtseblst To each of the reporters......... 501) 00 Is not within my knowledge that the amount To the sergeant-at-arms.........5 ~ To he ergantatarm.......500 00 of contingent expenses of this Convention To each of the deputy sergeants-atwill exceed fifty or a hundred thousand a rm s......................... 100 00 To teps-atr100 dollars. But, sir, it makes no difference in To the postmaster.............. 150 00 To the door-keeper............. 300 00 the principle, whether they reach one thou- To the chief enrolling clerk...... 100 00 sand or fifty thousand, if a bill which is due To each enrolling clerk.......... 100 00 is presented. To each-messenger............... 50 00 PRESIDENT-Are you speaking to the cor- To three porters, each.......... 50 00 To four policemen, each......... 100 00 recting of the minutes?~ recting of the minutes? To J. N. Russ, of the State Gazette, Mr. CAZABAT-NO, sir. Mr. CU TLER-M sr. P res t M. Whilldin and T. H. Draper, of Mr. CUTLER-Mr. President the True Delta, (reporters,) each 250 00 Mr. WELT;-Mr. President: I understand Most of this bill has already been passed PRESIDENT-Mr. Cutler has the floor. so far as the figures are concerned, and Mr. CUTLER —Mr. President, my motion hence the necessity of appropriating the was to correct the minutes. funds. Certainly there is no man here who PRESIDENT-I believe the minutes are can doubt the propriety of paying men correct. There wore two or three motions extra wages for arduous services like those to pay different sums of money to different of the employ~s of this body, and I must officers without making any appropriation say for one, that I have never seen more out of which such sums could be paid. I faithful men. We have been particularly therefore stated that a mere motion that a fortunate in our selection of employs. certain officer should receive a certain sum The will of the president has been carried of money, without stating the source from out to the very letter. Then, sir, it is prowhich that money was to be obtained — per for us to vote them some extra compen i DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION sation. I am willing to admit that the Louisiana and other States united with her compensation proposed is too low, but it under the compact entitled' The Constitu would certainly be irfor us to give one tion of the United States of Amnerica,' " would certainly be unfairfor us to give one therein declaring and ordaining the repeal extra and not another. I do not believe of "all laws and ordinances by which the there is a man here who will oppose this State of Louisiana became a member of the view. My opinion is that the reporters are Federal Union," and absolving "her citizens f rom all allegiance to said Government;" entitled to more than five hundred dollars from all allegiance to said Government; And whereas, Such ordinance of seces each for their ordinary services in addition sion was based upon an unfounded assump to anything that is due for extra services, tion of State sovereignty, and a perverted and for which payment is provided in a theory of State rights, and brought about in the interest of slavery; therefore be it resolution passed on Saturday. Their work Resolved, That we the people of Louis has been faithfully performed. They iana in Convention assembled, do solemnly have been punctually and constantly at denounce the doctrines of "State rights" their posts and prompt in the execution of and State sovereignty (interpreted as they tink the sergeant-at-arms is have been into a justification of secession) their duty. I thiktesras utterly subversive of our form of gov entitled to more. He has done his duty as ernment, and tending to confusion, anarchy few men could have done it. I know there and national destruction. is no gentleman here who is opposed to the Resolved, That we hold and maintain that our primary allegiance is due to the payment of extra compensation to the en- government of the United States that the government of the United States; that the rolling clerks. When a man does extra constitution and laws of the United States work-when he consumes the mid-night oil are the supreme law of the land, anything or the gas light. while we are out enjoy in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding; that no ourselves-he is entitled to extra pay, and State convention, whether fairly represent we find them put down at one hundred ing the people or not, has any right, power dollars each. The president of the Conven- or authority to absolve us from that alle tion and the chairman of the Committee on giance, and that, consequently, the act commonly called the "Ordinance of Se Enrollment to decide how many there is of cession" is, and always has been, null and them. void. Mr. TERRY-There are twenty-two. Resolved, That having legally abolished Mr. CTE-The chairman of the com- the institution of slavery in this State, as an evil in itself and a constant source of mittee informs me that there are seven en- national disturbance and danger, and derolling clerks and several translating siring for the same reasons to see it legally clerks employed. God knows how many abolished throughout the country, we are in faivor of so amending the constitution of there are altogether, I don't. But let the the United States as to secure this object. president and the chairman of the corm- Mt. President, in offering these resolumittee settle that question.-.' mittee settle that question. tions. I know that I am introducing a matter Mr. MONTAMAT —I want to amend as to calculated to provoke debate, but I desire the reporters-three hundred dollars each to see them adopted without debate. [The motion was not decided. Mr. FOLEY-I move the previous question. Mr. Cutler's resolution was put to vote, Mr. ABELL- desire to explain my vote Mr. ABELL —I desire to explain my vote and adopted on rising vote; 67 yeas to 7 on these resolutions. I wish it distinctly onl these resolutions. I wish it distinctly nays.] iunderstood by the members of this Con Mr. Mo-,rxMAT —I wish my vote to be M vention and by the people, that I am unrecorded against that resolution. It is a qualifiedly opposed to the political dogma qualifiedly opposed to the political dogma robbery of the State. Mr. FiSH —Mr. President, I desire to offer that the people are slaves to the govern ment. On the contrary, I believe in the for the action of this Convention the fol- sovereignty of the people, and therefore I lowing preamble and resolutions: shall vote emphatically against these reso Whereas, A Convention, claiming to act lutions. in the name of the State of Louisiana, did, Mr FLYEndorsing most heartily Mr. FoLEY - Endorsing most heartily on the 26th day of January, 1861' pass an ordinance entitled "An ordinance to dis- every word of the preamble and resolnmolve the union between the State of tions, I vote yes. 620 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 621 why I offer it. We are about to submit this constitution to the people of the State. Every man born in the United States before the war broke out is a citizen of the United States. Jeff. Davis, John Slidell and Judah P. Benjamin are citizens of the United States, and so are thousands of other rebels now within the limits of the State of Louisiana. Do we desire now to submit the constitution to rebels or only to loyal men? It would be worse than folly to submit it to rebels or to have it liable to be defeated by rebel votes. We must not submit it to traitors that are now in the land; let us rather submit it to those whom we represent-men whom we represent and whom we know to be loyal to the government. In order to effect this, I offer the following: Mr. HENDERSON —I v ote for these resolution s on the grou dm nd that I am bound to b e subservient ei ther to the government of the United States or the so-called Confederate government. As my mind and heart are wit h the government of t h e United States, and not in favor of a dissolution of the U nion, I vote yes. Mr. STOCKER-I vote yes, withou t any qualific ations whatever. Mr. STUAIPF —I vote yes. While I live I am ready t o di e for the Unite d Stat es. Mr. BUCKLEY-Mr. President, I ask if it takes the right s away from the States. PRESIDENT-The gentleman must construe it for himself. Mr. BuCKLEY —I vote yes. [Th e resolutions w er e adopted by th e following vote: ] YEAs —-Messrs. Austin, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bofill. Buckl ey, Burke, Ca mpb ell, Coll in, Cazabat, Co ok T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, Duane, Duke. Dupaty, Edwards, Ennis. Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Gorlinski, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, Mann, Maurer, Montamat, Morris, Murphy E., Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Sullivan, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wenck. Wells, Wilson-68. NAYs-Messrs. Abell, Balch,. Decker, Dufresne, Gruneberg, Maas. Mendiverri, Mur phy M. W.-8. Mr. ABELL-iMr. President, it is said that five would have saved Sodom and Gomor rah. I certainly think eight will save the sovereign people. Mr. THOMAS-Mr. President, I have a res olution which I desire to offer. I see that it is provided in the constitution we are about to present to the people, that " Every white male who has attained the age of twenty-one years, and who has been a resident of the State twelve months next preceding the election, and the last three months thereof in the parish in which he offers to vote, and who shall be a citizen of the United States, shall have the right of voting." I have a resolution to offer on the subject matter of this article, and in offering it will merely explain the reasons AN ORDINANCE DEFINING THE QUALIFICATIONS OF VOTERS. SECTION 1. Be it ordained by the people of the State of Louisiana in Convention assembled, That until otherwise provided by law, all commissioners, or other officers or persons presiding over elections held in this State, shall require that each voter shall possess the qualifications defined in the constitution as adopted and submitted by this Convention, and shall have declared his allegiance to the United States government according to the provisions of the president's proclamation of December the 8th, 1863. SEC. 2. Be it further ordained, That the executive officers of the State be charged with the execution of this ordinance, and the providing of such details and instructions as may be necessary to carry the same into effect. SEc. 3. Be it further ordained, That this ordinance shall have the force and effect of law from and after its passage until hereafter repealed or modified by the Legisla ture of the State. Mr. FOLEY-On its adoption I move the previous question. [The previous question was carried, and the ordinance adopted.] Mr. FOSDICK-I wish to offer a preamble and resolutions: W!Vereats, The adoption of article 36 of the constitution, excluding ministers of every persuasion or calling from a seat in the Legislature of this State is liable to a misconstruction, be it therefore Resolved, That the adoption of said article was intended solely to separate the holy DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THIIE REVISION did not understand the name) shall not be entitled to hi s propor tion. Mr. AMONTAMAbT-eHe is not a priest. He h as be en silenced. [On motion the amendment w as tabled.] Mr. STAUFFFES-I have a substitute: Resolved, That the than ks of th is Co n ven tion are due, and hereby tendered, to those ministers of the gospel who ha ve offic iated during its sessions. [A rising vote on tabling the substitute resulted in a tie, 29 members voting for and 29 against the motion. Th e president gave the casting vote in the affirmative and the substitute was tabled. The resolution of Mr. Fosdick was then adopted on a rising vote-56 yeas and 20 nays.] Mr. HARNAN —-Mr. President, I shall vote against the proceedings of this Convention. Mr. SHmw-It seems to me, Mr. President, that it is necessary for us to provide for the completion of our work after adjournment. Mr. HARLNAN —-Mr. President, I tender my resignation. Mr. SHAW-I have some resolutions, Mr. President, which I think are necessary to provide for winding up our business as follows: Resolved, That such officers and employds of the Convention as may be necessary for the completion of its work shall, after adjournment, be under the direction of the chairman of the Committee on Enrollment and the president of the Convention, and the services of all officers and employes not required by said president or chairman, or either of them. shall be discontinued and they shall have power to discharge any of said officers for want of promptness, or on account of the completion of their work. Resolved, That after adjournment any of the standing committees may perform such duties as may have been assigned them by the rules or resolutions of the Convention, and which may be necessary for winding up and perfecting the work of the Convention, and the president shall require any such duties to be performed by such committees if deemed by him-i necessary in case of their neglect. [The resolutions were adopted.] Mr. CLITLER —Mr. President, I have a reso calling of the ministry from the arena of politics, believing by such a course we are fnrthering the true interests of the gospel. Resolved, That the sum of $1000 be paid on the warrant of the president of this Con vention out of any moneys in the State treasury not otherwise appropriated, to be by him distributed among the elergy who have officiated by prayer during the session of this Convention. Mr. MONTAMAT-I move to lay that on the table. [The ayes and noes were called.] Mr. ABELL-I believe it my duty and the duty of this Convention to recognize christianity. and therefore on the question of laying on the table, I vote no. Mr. HARNAN-I pay my preacher myself, and I don't want to be at any expense to the public to pay preachers who were introduced here against the wishes of a part of this Convention. I believe the preachers were the great cause of this war. I vote yes. ~Mr. STOCkER-Mr. President, it certainly will be remembered by yourself, as well as others, that when the gentleman introduced the article in his report, that I raised my voice against it; I then said that it was a direct insult to the clergy. I now think this looks like knocking a man down with a cudgel and then making an apology for it. I vote yes. [The motion to table was lost by the following vote: ] YEAS-Messrs. Collin, Davies, Dupaty, Edwards, Gastinel, Healy, Harnan, Hart, Kugler, Montamat, Murphy M. W., Normand, Schnurr, Seymour, Stocker, Stumpf.i Sullivan, Waters Wenck-19. NAYS Messrs. Abell, Austin, Balch, Barrett, Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Bennie, Bofill, Buckley, Burke, Campbell, Cazabat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Decker, Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fosdick, Fuller, Geier, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Henderson, Hills, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Maas, Mann, Maurer, Mendiverri, Morris, Murphy E., O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, Thorpe, Thomas, Wells, Wilson-58. Mr. FOLEY-I move the previous ques, ] lItionto offer: ~~~~~~tion. ~ ~Resolved, That the salary of the clerk of tion. ceko the treasurer and the chief clerk of the Mr. BOFIL —I have an amendment: auditor of public accounts of the State of Provided, The Rev. Mr. - (Reporters Louisiana, shall be three thousand dollars 622 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. 623 per annum, until otherwise provided by offering them is that we may keep a watchlaw. This resolution to take effect from its ful eye over the work of the people, and passage. -when this work is completed there will be [On motion the resolution was tabled.] no longer any necessity for the existence of Mr. CUTRI have anotherresolutin to this body, but until it is done, until the offer which I hope will meet the approba- constitution is adopted, until the people constitution is adopted, until the people tion of this body, and I hope you will give hatve ratifying it, there should be a remedy in me your attention while I read it' my atiwlIaicase its enemies should be likely to prove Resolved, That when this Convention ad- successf l in defeating it. journs, it shall be at the call of the presi - dent, whose duty it shall be to reconvoke Mr. ABEiH-Mr. President the Convention for any cause, or in case Mr. HENI)ERSoN-Mr. Presidentthe constitution should not be ratified, for Mr. FOLEY-I move the previous question. the purpose of taking such measures as Mr. AnELI-I have but a word to say may be necessary for the formation of a civil government for the State of Louisiana. I which is this: that I think the duties of this He shall also, in that case, call upon the body will be done when they have signed proper officers of the State to cause elec- the constitution. And now I will say to tions to be held to fill any vacancies that my learned friend there that when I die I may exist in the Convention, in parishes w t e i de where the same may be practicable. wish to be buried and not to be suspended Resolved, That in case of the ratification like the corpse of Mahomet. As soon as of the constitution, it shall be in the power our duties are completed I think we ought of the Legislature of the State, at its first to go out of existence as a Convention I session, to reconvoke the Convention, in like manner, in case it should be deemed believe we are defunct as a Convention as expedient or necessary, for the purpose of soon as the object for which we were called making amendments or additions to the together is accomplished. Constitution that may, in the opinion of the I shall oppose these resolutions on two Legislature, require a reassembling of the Convention, or, in case of the occurrence of grounds:first, because I think we have disany emergency requiring its action. charged our duty and have no power to Resolved, That no per diem of members go further. Should a majority of this body shall be allowed during the adjournment. do so, it will only be for the purpose of These resolutions, Mr. President, are of- further misrepresenting the people. If fered for the purpose of taking into consid fered ftthey don't adopt this constitution they will eration now, our future action. It is my ignore us. If they approve our work thev opinion and the opinion of many of us, that will have no further se for us. Therefore when this Convention adjourns it should. T adr n t overtio adurtin it sud oI say when we have signed the constitution, adjourn over to a -certain day, and of a good, honest constitution, as I grant it is course without pay, and it is now our duty in many respects, let us cease to exist as a to act upon these resolultions, and say Convention, and let the people, if they whether, when we adjourn we shall adjourn ignore us by rejecting our work, elect sersine die, or whether we shall adjourn to a vants who will represent their views more cert~~~~~~~~~anth ilrersnt thiviesmoe. certain time. faithfully. If we have been faithful, and I am very sorry that the major general the people think so, they will re-elect us. commanding the department has not waited Mr. FOLEv-I move the previous quesupon us to-day. 1 am very much afraid tion we shall be disappointed in making him a [The motion was carried and the ayes tender of the pen with which the ordinance and nays called on the adoption of the res of emancipation was signed in token of our oluitions, with the following result:] appreciation of his efforts in behalf of the YEAS Messrs. Austin, Balch, Barrett, YEAS Messrs. Austin, Balch, Barrett, restoration of the State. Therefore it may Baum, Beauvais, Bell, Burke, Collin, Caz be possible that when we adjourn to-day, abat, Cook T., Crozat, Cutler, Davies, we should adjourn to another day for the Duane, Dufresne, Duke, Dupaty, Edwards purpose of making that presentation and Ennis, Fish, Flagg, Flood, Foley, Fuller, Geler, Gorlinski, Gruneberg, Hart, Hen signing the constitution. But that is not derson, Hire, Howes, Kavanagh, Kugler, the object of the resolutions. My object in Maas, Mann, Maurer, Morris. Murphy E., I DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION Normand, O'Conner, Orr, Payne J., Pintado, Resolved, That the thanks of this Con Poynot, Purcell J., Pursell S., Schroeder, vention are eminently due, and are hereby Schnurr, Seymour, Shaw, Smith, Spellicy, tendered to the Hon. E. H. Durell, for the Stocker, Stumpf, Stiner, Stauffer, Terry, courteous, just and dignified manner with Thorpe, Thomas, Waters, Wells, Wilson which he has presided over our delibera -62. tions. NAYS-Messrs. Abell, Bofill, Buckley, [The president called Mr. Shaw to the Campbell, Decker, Fosdick, Gastinel, Hea- chair.] ly, Hills, Mendiverri, Montamat, Murphy Mr. FosDICK —My object in offering the M. W., Sullivan, Wenck-24. Mr. TH'RPE-Mr Peidresolution is explained in the resolution Mr. THORPE —Mr. President, as chairman Mr.TORPE - M r. Presoideent, a hair n itself. I offer them from the fact that I op of the Committee on Enrollment, [ have the.. honor to report the constitution enrolled. eposed his election, and as his opponent in that election, I am willing to bear testimony PRESIDENT —The president will sign it...' PRESIDET-The president will sign it. to the dignified manner in which he has I will now answer a question propounded performed his duties as our presiding of to me by one of the honorable gentlemen, ficer. And I intended to have answered it at the Mr. CAZA,AT-Mr. President and gentle time. The constitution having already been men of the Convention, I have seconded adopted by a large majority requires only the resolution offered by Mr. Fosdick. If the signature of the president and secretary I have been one of the first to raise my by way of authentication. voice in behalf of the freedom of the press Mr. BOFILL-I move the roll be called, and in vindication of liberty, I shall not be and that members sign as their names are the last to raise my voice when it ie pro called. posed to testify our respect to the worthy [The secretary proceeded to call the roll. president of this body. Ile has presided As the names were called several mem- over our deliberations with a patience, bers expressed their reasons, as follows: urbanity and dignity deserving of our Mr. ABELL-Mr. President, I desire now highest commendation, and I trust, sir, that to state the reasons why I will not sign that this resolution will be carried without a constitution. I think there are one or two dissenting voice. provisions in it which are against every in- Mr. ABELLI wish to make a remark to terest in the State and every principle of the resolution, Mr. President, before it is justice. put to vote. I approve that resolution Mr. ORR-I am compelled to decline. most heartily, and I wish in a word or two Mr. MENDIVERRI-Under my honest con- to explain my reasons, because some genvittions of what is politic, right and just, tiemen might otherwise think that I was I am compelled to decline. opposed to it. To the gentlemen here, Mr. Mr. SMETH-If it hangs me to-morrow I President, and to yourself, it is well known will sign it. that the honorable president and myself Mr. WATErS-I decline to sign it. have differed on almost every important [After the roll had been gone through, question that has been presented to this the president announced that sixty-one body for consideration, at least on the members had signed the constitution.] questions of highest importance, in my esti Mr. THORPE-I now move that the con- mation; but, sir, no difference of opinion stitution be deposited in the office of the will induce me to do injustice to any man. secretary of state, and that members who I may, in the heat of debate. have said have not signed may be allowed to affix things that I ought not to have said; but, their signatures to it there. X sir, I believe from my heart that no man Mr. MONTAM.AT —I move as an amendment ever presided over a deliberative body that it be left in the hands of the committee with more faithfulness of purpose than he appointed on Saturday. has. I voted against him for another gen [Mr. Thorpe's motion was put and tieman whom I liked, from first to last; but carried.] sir, I award to him but that which is his Mr. FosDIcK-I have a resolution to offer. due, when I say that no man, who has any 624 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. respect for himself, can say that Judge Du- and silver We have ornamented our work rell has not presided over the deliberations with liberty-a principle more lasting than of this body with dignity, impartiality, the earth, or the heaven, or the sea, the faithfuilness and candor. unwearied sun and the full moon, or all I am not a man to seek the favor of great the constellations with which heaven is men, sir. I care as little for great men, sir, crowned, and in the name of LIERTY we as anybody; and now, sir, I only want to go forth sheltered by a stronger than award to Judge Durell the justice that is the five-fold shield of Achilles, which the due to him. I have stood upon questions enemies of freedom and justice will in vain on this floor in the minority, and in behalf assail. of the minority, I must say, in justice to Mr. AB,LIL-I call the gentleman to order. Judge Durell, that if there was on his part He is not speaking to the question; I insist any departure from the strict rules which he shall confine his remarks to the resolugovern parliamentary bodies, it was always tionI of thanks. such as to favor the minority in making Mr. HuI,.s —It was unnecessary for the a fiill and fair expression of their views. gentleman to ca me to order, for I had gentleman to call me to order" for I. had He has been indulgent to the minority arid He has been indulgent to the minority and concluded all that I had to say in behalf of I thank him for it. I mthank hme ofo ith of the divine principle of liberty which is must also thank the members of the always so offensive to my friend from the Convention for their great indulgence to Fifth District [Mr. Abell]. me in this Convention; and in conclusion, I have simply to say, in colusion, that I have simply to say, in conclusion, that will only remark, that I hope the vote on in this great and noble work which we the adoption of the resolution will be have performed, we have found in our preunanimous. ~~~~unanimoul~s. ~siding officer a steady, earnest and consist Mr. HILLs-Mr. President: As one of the ent friend, ready at all times to do fulljusmembers of this Convention who voted tice to every member on this floor, and I against our honored president, I deem it repeat that I shall most cheerfully support proper to express my hearty approval of the resolution under consideration. LApthe resolution of thanks offered by my plause.] colleague from the Second, [Mr. Fosdick]. Mr. S(c,KsIt —Mr. President, I have but I cheerfully bear witness to the uniform few words to say, and will detain- you but dignity and impartiality with which he has a very few minutes, and I hope gentlemen presided over the deliberations of this will grant me the same privilege they have body, and to the courtesy which he has granted Mr. Abell. I, too, was one who extended towards the members. In that opposed the election of the president to description of wonderful and surpassing the seat which he occupies in this Convenbeauty which Homer gives of the formation tion, and I desire to say, that the gentleof the shield of Achilles, we read that the man who introduced that resolution only divine artizan cast into his furnace impen- anticipated me, for I had a resolution to etrable brass and tin, and precious gold! the same effect written and endeavored to and silver, and having formed a five-fold present it, but he caught the president's shield both large and solid, he ornamented eye first and was assigned the floor. And it all over with many curious works with although I opposed his election. I must say, cunning skill. "' On it he wrought the that I am very glad, as matters have gone, earth and the heaven and the sea, the un- that lie was elected, and the resolution of wearied sun and the full moon, and on it, the gentleman meets my most hearty apalso, he represented all the constellations proval. Now, sir, my friend, Mr. Abell, with which heaven is crowned.' has tendered his thanks to this Convention Sir, in forming this constitution we have for the courtesy that has been shown to cast into the furnace principles of everlast- him. I have Rot made a calculation mying truth and justice, more enduring than self, but I have a son about fifteen years of impenetrable brass, or tin, or precious gold age who is very quick at figures, and he 79 6215 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION member of this Convention and particularly towards my old friend, Abell, the old Ken tucky horse. [The question was put, and the resolu tion adopted.] Mr. SIAw [to Mr. Durell]. —Mr. President, it now becomes my duty to communIlicate to you the following resolution which has just been unanimously adopted by this Convention. [Read the resolution.] Mr. CUTLER-Gentlemen of the Convention, I propose before the president replies that we stand and give three cheers for the president of this Convention. [Three cheers were given as proposed.] Mr. MONTAMAT-Mr. President, before we adjourn I call on my friend the governor to give us a speech. Mr. HILLS-Let us first hear the president in reply. PRESIDENT - Gentlemen, I rise with profound emotion to respond to the compliment you have this day paid me. But this is not a time for humility. I will say that I know, and that you know, that I have performed my duties as your president to the best of my ability, and with a good conscience. I will say flirther, that 1 know, and that voIu know, that all of you, sitting upon that floor as members of this great Convention-the representative of the majesty of the people of Louisianahave performed your several duties to the best of your abilities, with a good conscience. This Convention, assembled in these troublous times, has had a hard and m ost dangerous work to perform. Starting, in the honesty of your purpose, and firm in the truthfulness of your acts, you have done that which no convention or legislative body before assembled-as'far as history speaks of these matters —has ever performed. [Applause.1 This Convention has proved itself to be an honest, true and hard-working Convention. Its honesty is proved by the fact that it has lad no leaders upon the floor but every man has acted independently for himself, and has done that which he has thought it was his duty to do. [Cheers.] As a larger proof' of the honesty and truth has entered into a minute calculation as to what the indulgence extended to Mr. Abell has cost the State, and he figures it up at $61,962 16-a pretty round sum. Mr. ABELL-I call the gentleman to order. If I have cost one hundred thousand dollars I have benefitted th e State ten millions, but t hat has nothing to do with th is question. PRESIDENT [Mr. Shaw.]-Gentlemen will plea.e confine their remarks to the question. Mr. ABELL — The question how much I cost the Stat e has no thing to do with the question under debate. I wa s se nt here by my cons tituents of t he Fifth Ward; I repre sent them — Mr. STOCKER-As I was sa ying a min u te calculation of the time that the gentleman has occupied Mr. ABELL-Let him speak to the ques t ion. What I objec t to i s the large sums of money he i s t rying to bring in here Mr. THOMAS-The gentleman is out of order. PRESIDENT-The chair appeals to the gentleman f rom th e F ifth to keep order himself. There must necessarily be some freedom of d iscussion. Mr. STOCKER-S in ce it is so disagreeable t o th e g ent leman to see how much he has cost the S tate, and to see t he figures which foo t u p to the amount of $61,962.1 — Mr. ABELL-[rising and starting towards the other side of the room where Mr. Stocker was speaking].-If he says that again I will knock him down. Mr. STOCKER —I will not carry the computation any further, and will only say in conclusion that I take great pleasure in indorsing the resolution under discussion, as I do with all my heart. Mr. MONTAM.AT —I agree with the remarks of my. colleague fiffrom the th. -'The position of'the president is a very onerous one. I. for my part, would not take it for a hundred dollars a day. Though I don't agree with my colleague in regard to his reasons for not signing the constitution, because I believe it to be a good one, just as good as ever was made in the State of Louisiana, and I desire to leave the people to vote on it themselves. But I believe that Judge 'Durell has acted impartially towards every 626 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. fulness of this Convention, it adopted, immediately on its first sitting, the number seventy-six for its quorum; a number which would have been its quorum had every parish in the State been represented on this floor; and you have abided by that quorum, therein showing and proclaiming to the State, and to our sister States, that you have acted for the people and under the people. Now, ge ntlemen, what have you done? Your first great work-and I do not wish to say anything that may be displeasing to the ears of any gentleman upon this floor, because I know there are gentlemen on this floor who disagree with the majority in this matter, and disagree honestly and truly, and I question no man's motives —I say, the first great work you did, was to give freedom to the slave. [Great applause.] And I say, that this work is the crown and glory of this Convention. That act is the commencement of a new era -in civilization. That act is the dividing line between the old and worn out past and the new and glorious future, and will be imitated sooner or later by every one of our Southern sisters now groaning under th e incubus of secession. [Applause.] T hen you have fixed the true basis of re presentation, resting it upon the free voter, and upon the man-h e w ho wo rks honestly and gains his bread, as God said to- Adam, by the sweat of his brow. [Cheers.] You have gone still f arther and a dopted the true prin cipl e and foundation th a t of all civilization in every age, among a free, people, which is this: a common education to every child of the soil. You have laid deep and enduring the civilization of men and of women who differ not from us ex cept in as far as the sun has beat down more heavily upon their skins and made them black, instead of white. [Loud cheers.] You have accomplished a work which, at this time, may not be appreciated in its height and depth-in the length and breadth of it; but you have accomplished a work which will assert its importance hereafter. Look over the constitutions of your sister States from the times of the first compact between the original thirteen colonies down t o this ti me, an d you wil l find no s uch provis ions giving protection to the poor again st the rich, and giving the rich all that belongs to them. [Applause.] You have introduced certain pol icie s into the constitution which may be' questioned, but no man who is a philosopher-no man who is a statesman, who will contemplate them, reflect upon them and study out the i r full meaning, will come to any other' conclusion than that of the majority of this Con venti on. I speak, i n the first pla ce, wi ar th regard t o that feature in our constitution, a nd I am very glad to see before me the member th at in tr oduced it, (Mr. Sullivan,) fo r it is a crown to his head, which takes the police of our great city out of the politics of our city. In modern times th e tende ncy of population is to ga ther together in cities and to bu ild up vast conglomerate populations. We must depend upon those who watch over us, for protec tion during the night as during the day, and such men should be independent of political change. This is the gr e at problem, whose solution h as been so ught for the last f ifty year s i n England, in France, in Austria and in Ger many, and you have solved it. [Applause.]' I come now, gentlemen, to the second ex traordinary feature of the constitution. It is this: you have shown yourselves capable of grasping the strength and the weaknesses of humanity. You have not feared to meet the issue-you have proved yourselves willing to acknowledge vice and refused to ignore it. Every man within the hearing of'my voice, and that eloquent man of God, (Dr. Sewman,) who talks to his people as a true disciple and a master, knows that there are certain vices planted within the human breast, which will always remain there, as long as man is man-fox what ,reason we know not, except that God is wise, and his ways are past finding out those vices have existed from the beginning and will exist to the end-and it is the duty the first duty of legislators, not to ignore them, but to acknowledge, grapple with and rule them. You have put the gambling article into the constitution, and, from re port, I suppose that article will be more 627 DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION I would be proud to fill beyond that of ! governor of the State, and that is, I would ! like to have been a member of this Conven tion. [Applause.] And I frequently felt so, and expressed myself to many of you, that I would any day have given up the ex ecutive which I hold for the proud honor of having my name stamped with those no ble and liberal principles which shine out so prominently in the admirable constitu tionI you have this day signed. [Great [applause.] Fellow-citizens: You have this day con cluded a noble work. Educated with strong prejudices, living in a community of sin gular institutions, you have seen your coun try about to be separated, and, like tritue patriots, you have cast aside your early prejudices —you have thrown aside your property and have boldly and manfully come forward in the true spirit of the American, and said: "Let us lose all this rather than lose our country."' [Cheers.] And, gentlemen, you will not lose your country. The guns that to-day boom over Atlanta and Petersburg will accomplish the work for which they were designed. [Applause.] This Union of States-created not by man, but by the finger of Almighty God-cannot be divided. [Loud cheers.] Macaulay, in his History of England, truly,, says, that " England has frequently been visited by blessings in the guise of disasters." So, ftellow-citizens, it may be with us in this apparently great disaster to our country, of a division among its people; but. we are going through a system of purification, and when we rid ourselves of the rubbish and the obstacles in the path of true republican ism, our country will stand out brighter and m nore glorious, and more powerful than any upon which the light of Heaven has ever fallen. [Applause.] We will then not only have secured the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity in this country, but we will be in a position to say that these principles shall prevail all along our boundries. [Great applause.] Fellow-citizens: I am satisfied that the criticised and qu est ioned t ha n an y other; but you are supported by the writings of the philosophers and by the judgment of the most eminent of the political writers of Europe. - This constitution was formed, not in times of peace, when we could meet in quietude, not in the midst of our friends who were aiding and assisting us, but in a time of war, and I know that, outside of this hall, an immense pressure has been brought to bear against it by those who go about in sheep's' clothing, covering the wolf's hide, but you have proved too strong for them. You have proved too courageous for them. You have exhibited courage in this matter superior to the courage of the soldier on the field who marches bravely up to the cannon's mouth. You are civil soldiers, and if you fail the doom of the hangman is your doom. Therefore, I say, that no man with the panoply of war upon his back can exhibit a courage superior to that which you have exhibited sit ting on that floor. [Applause.] With these remarks, gentlemen, I will conclude, wishing you every prosperity of life. wishing you true happiness, wishing, above all-things that we, before our eyes are closed in death, may see our beloved country united as it was in the beginning, with that glorious flag floating over every inch of land from the Canadas to the Gulf — from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and our nation the strongest, the most just and the most pure that God's sun ever shown upon. [Applause.] [Governor Hahn was then loudly called for, and on coming forward, spoke as follows:] Mr. President ard gentlemen of the Convention: Although I have appeared before many an audience in my lifer although I have been in high and dignified bodies, I must say'that this demonstration of your approval of my public conduct enters more deeply into my heart, than any other evidence of approval I have recelved. I owe much to you! and my t1llow-citizens of Louisiana, for the high and dignified I constitution that yout have made will not position in which I have been placed. Fel- only meet with a warm response and an low-citizens, there is but one position which overwhelming approval from the loyal peo 628 AND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF LOUISIANA. ple of Louisiana, but that it will come up to the expectations of all loyal men all over this great country. [Applause.] I thank you for the many evidences of your hearty co-operation with the executive of the State during the months you have been in session, and I think that this is probably the only Convention that has ever been held in the United States in which every member of the Convention was upon terms of the utmost friendship and cordiality with the executive. [Applause.] I feel that I enjoy the friendship and the confidence of every single member in this Convention. [Cheers and cries of "yes," "yes."] I have never sought unduly to impress my views upon you, except upon great occasions when I thought the duty of the humblest citizen required him to advise with his fellow- citizens. I:!ive used no power or influence within my peculiar control to modify or operate upon a single provision in that constitution. I was placed in the office which I fnow fill much against my own inclinations, and I now state to you that as soon as the constitution is ratified, and this Union is restored, my highest ambition will be to give up that office and to retire into private life with your approbation, and the approbation of my fellow-citizens. [Prolonged applause.] [A motion wa s m ade to adjourn.] PRESIDENT —The proceedings will be closed with prayer by Rev. Dr. Newman. [The Rev. Dr. Newman then came upon the platform and offered up a prayer, in language as follows:] O God! we thank thee that w e h ave lived to see this day,-a day destined to live not only while our memories shall endure, but destined to live in the memories of mankind to the latest generations of time. We thank thee that durin,g the lon, and laborious session of this Convention, thy servants have been preserved in body and in mind, and that death has not invaded their circle. We thank thee that reason h a s maintained her sovereign reign: th at their m ental powers remain unim pai red; and we rejoice,- that at the consummation of their work, with thy benediction abiding on them, they return to the privacy of life andu to al the various vocations to which thy providence has called them. Great Father of the Un ivers e! a cce pt our united thanksgiving fo r the constitution which this Convention has adopted -for the sublime principles o f. Divine, natural and political just ice incor porated therein, and especially th a t it pro hibits slavery and raises the banner of f r ee dom over an en franchised people. Great Source of Knowledge! w e thank thee that the common intellect, th ro ughout the Stat e, has been emancipated; that the advantages of education are proffered to, all; and that without respect of color or circumstances, t le the children of this and o f future generations, are to be instructed iln those natural and changeless laws which lead our thoughts up from " nature to natures God.".-. Command th y ble ssing o n thi s instrument?, of legislation. Are there errors in it? O i: rememba o r s han Ser to err is hum a n. Suffer no such errors to work out evil to the co'f monwealth, but according to thy high prerogative, by t hine uner ring Pr ovidence bri n g good out of th e evil. We beseech thee, prepare the minds of the people for its comprehension and their hearts for its affectionate support. Be thou the guardian of this fair State, which on this day is born again, and enters on a new. better, higher life of virtue and power, of wealth and glory. Deliver her soil fiom the last rebel footstep. Over her broad plantations and populous towns extend the shield of thy protection; and re-establish liberty and union, law and order throughout her borders. Graciously bless our chief executive, and grant our governor all that intellec tuial power and all th_,[ favor with the people which will enable him to discharge his ardous and responsible duties with credit to himself, honor to the State and glory to thine exalted name. And may the State over which he is called to preside, rise in beauty and power among the sister States of our glorious Union, having all her channels of trade re-opened and pouring forth her vast resources of wealth and power in unprecedented profusion. I 6-29" DEBATES IN THE CONVENTION. Richmond surrender; and, great God. grant that ere many suns shall rise, the last rebel shall be subdued and righteousness and peace and order be restored to our beloved country. In these, our humble requests, answer us, most mercifuil Father. In all of life's duties be thou our guide. Bring us down to our silent graves with the composure of Christians and with the calmness of a well-grounded hope in Jesus Christ. And 0, when the great day of retribution shall have dawned, when the archangels trumpet shall awake the slumbering millions of mankind, firom the depths of the ocean and from the tombs of the earth, grant we may all receive the welcome plaudit, "Well done, good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of thy Lord." And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God the Father and the communion'of the Holy Spirit abide with your hearts forever. Amen. Commandtein thy blessing on thy servant the president of this Convention. Preserve 'his valuable life to the count ry and ito t he State. Preserve his mental powers unimpared, and grant that in the fiCture as in the past, he may subserve th e nation's good and the interests of mankind. Graciously remember thy servants who shall separate this day. Whatever may betide them; whatever joys may be strown in their pathway; whatever sorrows they may be called upon to endure, O! be thou to each a father and a friend: pardon, we beseech thee, the sins of one and all; regenerate all hearts; that they may rise and shine in the resurrection of the just and be received into the habitations of the blessed at thy right hand. Infinite in thy mercies and unmeasured in thy love, answer us for all the employes of the Convention and for all associated therewith. Honor with thy sustaining and illumina'ting presence the president of these United States. Remember Grant and Sherman, to crown them with victory. May Atlanta fall and [Upo n mo tion, the Convention then adjourned, subject to the call of the president.] 630 -1 CONSTITUTION OF THIE STATE OF LOUISIANA. ADOPTED IN CONVENTION, JULY 23, 1864. ! the seat of government. There shall also be a session of the General Assembly in the city of New Orleans, beginning on the first Monday of October, eighteen hundred and sixty-four; and it shall be the duty of the governor to cause a special election to be held for members of the Gieral Assembly, in all the parishes where The same may be held, on the day of the election for ratifica tion or rejection of this Constitution-to be valid in case of ratification; and in other parishes or districts he shall cause elections Ito be held as soon as it may become practicable, to fill the vacancies for such parishes or districts in the General Assembly. The term of office of the first General Assembly shall expire as though its members hadbeen elected on the first Monday of November, eighteen hundred o4nd sixty-three. Art. 8. Every Wduly qualified elector under this constitution shall be eligible to a seat in the General Assembly: Provided, that no person shall be a representative or senator unless he be, at the time of his election, a duly qualified voter of the representative or senatorial district from which he is elected. Art. 9. Elections for the members of the General Assembly shall be held at the several election precincts established by law. Art. 10. Representation in the House of Representatives shall be equal and uniform, and shall be regulated and ascertained by the number of qualified electors. Each parish shall have at least one representative. No new parish shall be created with a territory less than six hundred and twentyfive square miles, nor with a number of electors less than the full number entitling it to a representative; nor when the creation of such new parish would leave any other parish without the said extent of territory and number of electors. The first enumeration by the State authorities, under this constitution, shall be made in the year eighteen hundred and sixty-six, the second in the year eighteen hundred and seventy, the third in the year eighteen hundred and seventy-six; after which time the General Assembly shall direct in what manner the TITLE II. DISTRIBUTION OF POWERS. Art. 3. The powers of the government of the State of Louisiana shall be divided into th ree distin ct d epartments, and each of them shall be confined to a separate body of magistracy, to-wit: those which are legislative to one, those which are executive to another, and those which are judicial to another. Art. 4. No one of these departments, nor any person holding office in one of them, shall exercise power properly belonging to either of the others, except in the instances hereinafter expressly directed or permitted. TITLE III. LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT. Art. 5. The legislative power of the State shall be vested in two distinct branches, the one to be styled " the House of Representatives," the other "the Senate," and both "the General Assembly of the State of Louisiana." Art. 6. The members of the House of Representatives shall continue in service for the term of two years from the day of the closing of the general elections. Art. 7. Representatives shall be chosen on the first Monday in November every two years, and the election shall be completed in one day. The General Assembly shall meet annually on the first Monday in Janiuary, unless a different day be appointed by law, and their sessions shall be held at PREAMBLE. . We, the people of the State of Louisiana, do -ordain and establish this Con~titution. TffLE I. EM,&NCIPATION. Article 1. Slavery and involuntary servitude, e,*,cept as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, are hereby' forever abolished and prohibited throughout the State. Art. 2. The Legislat?re shall make no law recognizing. the right of property in man. CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. For the Parish of Washington.............1 do. St. Helena................1 do. Yermillion.............1 do. Lafayette..............2 do. St. Landry.............4 do. Calcasieu........... 2 do. Avoyelles.............2 do. Rapides-.3 do. Natchitoches............ 2 do. Sabine 1 do. Caddo................... 2 do. DeSoto................2 do. -Ouachita.............. I do. Union...................2 dlo. Morehouse...............1 do. Jackson................ 2..... do. Caldwell.................1 do. Catahoula................ 2 do. Claiborne................ 3 do. Bossier............... 1 do. Bienville.................. 2 do. Carroll................... 1 do. Tensas................ do. Winn.................... 2 Total...... 118 And the State shall be divided into the following senatorial districts: All that portion of the parish of Orleans lying on the left bank of the Mississippi river shall be divided into two senatorial districts; the First and Fourth Districts of the city of New Orleans shall compose one district and shall elect five senators; and the Second and Third Districts of said city shall compose the other district, and shall elect four senators. The parishes of Plaquemines, St. Bernard and all that par t of the pari sh of Orleans on the right bank of the M iississippi river shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of Jefferson shall form one district, a nd shall elect one senator. The parishes of St. Charles and Laforrche shall form one distri ct, and shall elect o ne senator. The parishes of St. John the Baptist and St. James shall form one district, and s hall form one elect one senator. The parishes of Ascension, Assumption and Terrebonne shallTform one district, and shall elect two senators.. The parish of Iberville shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parish of East Baton Rouge shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of West Baton Rouge, Point Coupee and West Feliciana shall form one district, and shall elect two senators. The parish of East Feliciana shall form d one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Washington, St. Tammany, St. Helena and Livingston, shall form one district, and shall elect one senator. The parishes of Concordia and Tensas #hall form one district,and shall elect one senators census shall b e t ak en, so that it be made at least once in every period of ten years for the purpose of ascertaning the total popu. lation, and the number of qualified electors in each parish and election district; and in case of informality, omission or error, in the censds returns from any district, the the Legislature shall order a new census taken in such pari sh or election district. Art. 11. At the first session of te Legislature after the making of each enumeration, the Legislatuire shall apportion the representation amongst the several parishes an d election districts on the basis of qualified elector s as aforesaid. A representative numb er shall be fixed, and each parish and electi on district shall have as many representatives as the aggregate number of its electors will entitle it to, and an additional representative for any fraction exceeding one-half the representative number. The number of representatives shall not be more than one Jundred and twenty, nor less than ninety7. Art. 12. Until an apportionment shall be made, and elections held under the same, in accordance with the first enumeration to be made, as directed in article 10. the representation in the Senate and House of Representatives shall be as follows: For the parish of Orleans, forty-four representatives, to be elected as follows: !First Representative District............ 3 Second do...............'...........5 Third do........... 7...............7 Fourth do........3 Fouthdo......................... 3 Fifth do........................... 4 Sixth do........................... 2 Seventh do............................3 Eighth do...... 3 Ninth do.......4 Tenth do.......................... 8 Orleans, Right Bank.................. 2 For the parish of Livingston............1 do. St. Tammany.............1 do. Pointe Couple............ 1 do. St. Martin................ 2 do. Concordia................ 1 do. Madison.................. 1 do. Franklin.................1 do. St. Mary................... 1 do. Jefferson................. 3 do. Plaquemines.............. I do. St. Bernard............... 1 do. St. Charles............... do. St. John the Baptist.......1 do. St. James............. J..~1 do. Ascension................ 1 do. Assumption.............. 3 do. Lafourche................ 3 do. Terrebonne.............2 do. lberville................. I1 do. West Baton Rouge........ 1 do........East-Baton Rouge......2 do........West Feliciana.......1 do.........East Feliciana......l.. 632 CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. The parishes of Madison and Carroll shall Senate, when assembled, shall have the form one district, and shall elect one senator. power to choose its own officers, The parishes of Morehouse, Ouachita, Art. 21. The Legislature, in every year in Union and Jackson shall form one district, which they apportion representatiou in the and shall elect two senators. House of Representatives, shall divide the The parishes of Catahoula, Caldwell and State into senatorial districts. Franklin, shall form one district, and shall Art. 22. No parish shall be divided in the elect one senator. formation of a senatorial district, the parish The parishes of Bossier, Bienville, Clai- of Orleans excepted. And whenever a hew borne and Winn shall form one district, and parish shall be created, it shall be attached shall elect two senators. to the senatorial district from which most The parishes of Natchitoches, Sabine, of its territory was taken, or to another con DeSoto and Caddo shall form one district, tiguous district, at the discretion of the and shall elect two senators. Legislature; but shall not be attached to T''he parishes of St. Landry, Lafayette more than one district. The number of and Calcasieu shall form one district, and senators shall be thirty-six; and they shall shall elect two senators. be apportioned among the senatorial dis The parishes of St. Martin and Vermillion tricts according to the electoral population shall form one district, and shall elect one contained in the several districts: Provided, senator. that no parish be entitled to more than The parish of St. Mary shall form one dis- nine senators. trict, and shall elect one senator. Art. 23. In all apportionments of the The parishes of Rapides and Avoyelles Senate, the electoral population of the shall form one district, and shall elect two who'e State shall be divided by the num senators. ber thirty-six, and the result produced by Art. 13. The House of Representatives this division shall be the senatorial ratio shall choose its speaker and other officers. entitling a senatorial district to a senator. Art. 14. Every white male who has at- Single or contiguous parishes shall be tained the age of twenty-one years, and who formed into districts, having a population has been a resident of the State twelve the nearest possible to the number entimonths next preceding the election, and the tling a district to a senator; and if in the lIst three months thereof in the parish in apportionment to make a parish or district which he offers to vote, and who shall be a fall short of or exceed the ratio, then a discitizen of the United States, shall have the trict may be formed having not more than right of voting. two senators, but not otherwise. No new Art. 15. The Legislature shall have apportionment shall have the effect of power to pass laws extending suffrage to abridging the term of service of any senasuch other persons, citizens of the United tor already elected at the time of making States, as by military service, by taxation the apportionment. After an enumeration to support the government, or by intellec- has been made as directed in the 10th artitual fitness, may be deemed entitled thereto. cle, the Legislature shall not pass any law Art. 16. No voter, on removing from one until an apportionment of representation parish to another within the State, shall in both Houses of the General Assembly be lose the right of voting in the former until made. he shall have acquired it in the latter. Art. 24. At the first session of the GenElectors shall in all cases, except treason. eral Assembly, after this constitution takes felony or breach of the peace, be privileged effect, the senators shall be equally divided from arrest during their attendance at, by lot, into two classes; the seats of the going to, or returning from elections. senators of the first class shall be vacated Art. 17. The Legislature shall provide by at the expiration of the term of the first law that the names and residence of all House of Representatives; of the second qualified electors shall be registered in class at the expiration of the term-of the order to entitle them to vote; but the reg- second House of Representatives; so that istry shall be free of cost to the elector. one-half shall be chosen every two years, Art.,18. No pauper, no person under in- and a rotation thereby kept lup perpetually. terdiction. nor under conviction of any In case any district shall have elected two crime punishable with hard labor, shall be or more senators, said senators shall vacate entitled to vote at any election in this State. their seats respectively at the end of the Art. 19. No person shall be entitled to term aforesaid, and lots shall be drawn bevote at any election held in this State ex- tween them. cept in the parish of his residence, and, in Art. 25. The first election for senators cities and towns divided into election pre-! shall be held at the same time that the eleccincts, in the election precinct in which he tion for representatives is held; and thereresides. - after there shall be elections of senators at Art. 20. The members of the Senate shall the same time with each general eetion of be chosen for the term of four years. The representatives, to fill the places of those 80 4,; 639' Y' "I!. I CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. senators whose term of service may have shall, during the term for which he was expired. elected, nor for one year thereafter, be ap Art. 26. Not less than a majority of' the pointed to any civil office of profit under members of each House of the General As- this State, which shall have been created, sembly shall form a quorum to do business; or the emoluments of which shall havw but a smaller number may adjourn from been increased during the time such senaday to day, and shall be authorized by law tor or representative was in office, except to compel the attendance of absent mem- to such offices as may be filled by the bers. election of the people. Art. 27. Each House of the General As- Art. 35. No person, who at any time may sembly shall judge of the qualifications, have been a collector of taxes, whether elections and return of its members; but a State, parish or municipal, or who may contested election shall be determined in have been otherwise entrusted with public such a manner as shall be directed by law. money, shall be eligible to the General As Art. 28. Each House of the General As- sembly, or to any office of profit or trust, sembly may determine the rules of its pro- under the State government, until he shall ceeding, punish a member for disorderly have obtained a discharge for the amount ~lbehavior, and, with a concurrence of two- of such collections, and for all public monthirds, expel a member; but not a second I eys with whlch he may have been entrusted. time for the same offence. Art. 36. No person, while he continues Art. 29. Each House of the General As- to exercise the functions of a clergyman of sembly shall keep and publish weekly a any religious denomination whatever, shall journal of its proceedings; and the yeas be eligible to the General Assembly. and nays of the members on any question Art. 37. No bill shall have the force of a shall, at the desire of any two of them, be law until, on three several days, it be read entered on the journal. over in each House of the General Assem Art. 30. Each House may punish, by im- bly, and free discussion allowed thereon; prisonment, any person not a member, for unless in case of urgency, four-fifths of the disrespectful and disorderly behavior in its House, where the bill shall be pending, presence, or for obstructing any of its pro- may deem it expedient to dispense with ceedings. Such imprisonment shall not ex- this rule. ceed ten days for any one offence. Art. 38. All bills for raising revenue, Art. 31. Neither House. during the ses- shall originate in the House of Representasions of the General Assembly, shall, with- tives; but the Senate may propose amendout the consent of the other, adjourn for ments, as in other bills: Provided, they more than three days, nor to any other shall not introduce any new matter,,under place than that in which they may be the color of an amendment, which does not sitting. relate to raising revenue. Art. 32. The members of the General As- Art. 39. The General Assembly shall sembly shall receive from the public treas- regulate, by law, by whom, and in what Ilry a compensation for their services, which manner, writs of election shall be issued to shall be eight dollars per day, during their fill the vacancies which may happen in attendance, going to and returning from the either branch thereof sessions of their respective Houses. The Art. 40. The Senate shall vote. on the compensation may be increased or dimin- confirmation or rejection of the officers, to ished, by law, but no alteration shall take be appointed by the governor with the adeffect during the period of service of the vice and consent of the Senate, by yeas and members of the House of Representatives nays; and the names of the senators voting by whom such alteration shall have been for and against the appointments, respecmade. No session shall extend to a period tively, shall be entered on a journal to be beyond sixty days, to date from its com- kept for that purpose, and made public at mencement, and any legislative action had the end of each session, or before. after the expiration of the said sixty days, Art. 41. Returns of all elections for memshall be null and void. This provision bers of the General Assembly shall be made shall not apply to the first Legislature to the secretary of state. which is to convene after the adoption of Art. 42. In the year in which a regular this constitution. election for a senator of the United States Art. 33. The members of the General is to take place, the members of the GenAssembly shall in all cases, except treason, eral Assembly shall meet in the hall of the felony, breach of the peace, be privileged House of Representatives on the second from arrest during their attendance at the Monday following the meeting of the Legissessions of their respective Houses, and lature, and proceed to said election. going to or returning from the same; and TITILE IV. for any speech or debate in either House T. V. shall not be questioned in any other place. EXRUTiVE DEPARTMENT. Art. 34. No senator or representative Art. 43. The supreme executive power 634 CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. of the State shall be vested in a chief as governor, and such officer shall act ac magistrate, who shall be styled the gover- cordinrgly, until the disability be removed, nor of the State of Louisiana. He shall hold or lor the remainder of the term. his office during the term of four years, and, Art. 48. The lieutenant governor or officer together with the lieutenant governor, discharging the duties of governor, shall, chosen for the same term, be elected as during his administration, receive the same follows: The qualified electors for repre- compensation to which the governor would sentatives shall vote for governor and lieu- have been entitled had he continued in office. tenant governor at the time and place of Art. 49. The lieutenant governor shall, by voting for representatives; the returns of virtue of his office, be president of the Sen every election shall be sealed up and trans- ate, but shall have only a casting vote mitted by the proper returning officer to therein. Whenever he shall administer the the secretary of state, who shall deliver government, or shall be unable to attend them to the speaker of the House of Repre- as president of the Senate, the senators sentatives on the second day of the session shall elect one of their own members as of the General Assembly then to be holden. president ot the Senate for the time being. The members of the General Assembly Art. 50. The governor shall receive for shall meet in the House of Representatives his services a compensation of eight thouto examine and count the votes. The per- sand dallars per annum, payable quarterly, son having the greatest number of votes for on his own warrant. governor shall be declared duly elected; Art. 51. The lieutenant governor shall but if two or more persons shall be equal receive for his services a salary of five and the highest in the number of votes thousand dollars per annum, to be paid polled for governor, one of them shall im I quarterly. mediately be chosen governor by joint vote Art. 52. The governor shall have power of the members of the General Assembly. to grant reprieves for all offences against The person having the greatest number of the State, and, except in cases of impeachvotes polled for lieutenant governor shall ment, shall. with the consent of the Senate, be lieutenant governor; but if two or more have power to grant pardons, remit fines persons shall be equal and highest in the and forfeitures, after conviction. In cases number of votes polled for lieutenant gov- of treason, he may grant reprieves until ernor, one of them shall be immediately the end of the next session of the General chosenlieutenant governor by joint vote Assembly, in which the power of pardonof the members of the General Assembly. ing shall be vested. Art. 44. No person shall be eligible to Art. 53. He shall be commander-in-chief the office of governor or lieutenant gover- of the militia of this State, except when nor who shall not have attained the age of they shall be called into the service of the thirty-five years, and been a citizen and resi- United States. dent within the State for the period of five Art. 54. He shall nominate, and, by and years next preceding his election. with the advice and consent of the Sen Art. 45. The governor shall enter on the ate, appoint all officers whose offices are discharge of his duties on the second Mon- established by the constitution, and whose day of January next ensuing his election, appointments are not herein otherwise proand shall continue in office until the Mon- vided for: Provided, however, that the day next succeeding the day that his suc- Legislature shall have a right to prescribe cessor shall be declared duly elected, and the mode of appointment to all other ofshall have taken the oath or affirmation re- flees established by law. quired by the constitution. Art. 55. The governor shall'have power Art. 46. No member of Congress, minis- to fill vacancies that may happen during ter of any religious denomination, or any the recess of the Senate, by granting comperson holding office under the United missions which shall expire at the end of States government, shall be eligible to the the next session thereof, unless otherwise office of governor or lieutenant governor. provided for in this constitution; but no Art. 47. In case of impeachment of the person who has been nominated for office governor, his removal from office, death, and rejected by the Senate, shall be aprefusal or inability to qualify, resignation pointed to the same office during the recess or absence from the State, the powers and of the Senate. duties of the office shall devolve upon the Art. 56. He may require information, in lieutenant governor for the residue of the writing, from the officers in the executive term, or until the governor, absent or im- department upon any subject relating to peached, shall return or be acquitted. The the duties of their respective offices. Legislature may provide by law for the Art. 57. He shall, from time to time, give case of removal. impeachment, death, re- to the General Assembly information resignation, disability or refusal to qualify, specting the situation of the State, and of both the governor and the lieutenant recommend to their consideration such governor, declaring what officer shall act measures as he may deem expedient. 635' CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. the State; and in case of any vacancy caused by the resignation, depth or absence of the secretary, treasurer or auditor, the governor shall order an election to fill said vacancy. - Art. 65. The secretary of state, the treasurer and the auditor shall receive a salary of five thousand dollars per annum each. Art. 66. All commissions shall be in the name and by the authority of the State of Louisiana, and shall be sealed with the State seal and signed by the governor. Art. 67. All able-bodied men in the State shall be armed and disciplined for its defence.! Art. 68. The militia of the State shall be organized in such manner as may be hereafter deemed most expedient by the Legislatuire. Art. -58. He may, on extraordinary oc casions, convene the General Assembly at the seat of government, or at a different place if-that should have become dangerous from an enemy, or from epidemic; and, in case of disagreement between the two Houses as to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he may think proper, not exceeding foutr months. Art. 59. He shall take care that the laws are faithfully executed. Art. 60. Every bill which shall have passed both Houses shall be presented to the governor; if he approves, he shall sign it, if not, he shall return it with his objections to the House in which it originated, which shall enter the objections at large upon its journal, and proceed to consider it; if, after such consideration, two-thirds of all the members elected to that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall be likewise considered, and if approved by two-thi rd s of the member s elected to that House, it shall be a law; but in such cases the vote of both Hous es shall be determined by yeas a nd nays, and the names of the members voting for or against the b ill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the governor within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, it shall be a law in like manner as if he had signed it; unless the General Assembly, by adjournment, prevent its return. Art. 61. Every order, resolution or vote, to which the concurrence of both Houses ",ay be necessa-y, except on a question of adjournment, shall- be presented to the governor, and before it shall take effect, be approved by him, or, being disapproved, shall be repassed by two-thirds of the members elected to each House of the General Assembly. Art. 62. There shall be a secretary of state who shall hold his office during the term for which the governor shall have been elected. The records of the State shall be kept and preserved in the office of the secretary- he shall keep a fair register of the official acts and proceedings of the governor, and when necessary shall attest them; he shall, when required, lay the said register,,and all papers, minutes and vouchers relative to his office, before either House of the General Assembly, and shall perform such other duties as may be enjoined on him by law. Art. 63. There shall be a treasurer of the State, and an auditor of public accounts, who shall hold their respective offices during the term of foursyears. Art. 64. The secretary of state, treasurer of state and auditor of public accounts shall be elected by the qulalified electors of Art. 69. The judiciary power shall be vested in a Supreme Court, in such inferior courts as the Legislature may, from time to time, order and establish, and in justices of' the peace. Art. 70. The Supreme Court, except in cases hereafter provided, shall have appel late jurisdiction only; which jurisdiction shall extend to all cases when the-matter in dispute shall exceed three hundred dollars: to all cases in which the constitutionality or legality of any tax, toll or impost what soever, or of any fine, forfeiture or penalty imposed by a municipal corporation, shall be in contestation; and to all criminal cases on questions of law alone whenever the offence charged is punishable with death or imprisonment at hard labor, or when a fine exceeding three hundred dollars is ac tuaslly imposed. Art. 71. The Supreme Court shall be composed of one chief justice and four associate justices, a majority of whom shall constitute a quorum. The chief justice shall receive a salary of seven thousand five hundred dollars, and each of the associate justices a salary of seven thousand dollars annually, until otherwise provided by law. The court shall appoint its own clerks. Art. 72. The Supreme Court shall hold its sessions in New Orleans from the first Monday in the month of November to the end of the month of June, inclusive. The Legislature shall have the power to fix the sessions elsewhere during the rest of the year; until otherwise provided the sessions shall be held as heretofore. Art. 73. The Supreme Court, and each of t he judges thereo f, shall have pow er t o issue writs of habeas corpus, at the instance of all persons, in acutual custody under process, in all cases in which they may have appellate jurisdiction. Art. 74. No judgment shall be rendered -936 TITLE V. JUDICIA,RY DEPARTMENT. CONSTITUITION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. during a, term of two years. They shall have such criminal jurisdiction as shall be provided by law. Art. 83. There shall be an attorney general for the State, and as many district attorneys as the Legislature shall find necessary. The attorney general shall be elected every four years, by the qualified voters of the State. He shall receive a salary of five thousand dollars per annum, payable on his own warrant quarterly. The district attorneys shall be elected by the qualified voters of their respective districts, for a term of four years. They shall receive such salaries as shall be provided by the Legislature. Art. 84. A sheriff and a coroner shall be elected in each parish by the qualified voters thereof, who shall hold their offices for t he term of two years. The sLegislature shall have the powe r to inrease the number of sheriffs in any parish. Should a vacancy occur in either of these offices sub - sequent to an election, it shall be filled by t he governor, and the person so appointed shall continue in office until his successor shall be elected and qualified, TITLE VI. IMPEACHMENT. Art. 85. The power of impeachment shall be vested in the Hous e of Representatives.a Art. 86. Impeachments of the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state, state treasurer, auditor of public accounts, and the judges of the inferior courts, justices of the peace excepted, shall bedtried by the Senate; the chief JlU. tice of the Supreme Court, or the senior judge thereof, shall preside during the trial of such impeachment. Impeachments of the judges of the Supreme Court shall be tried by the Senate. When sitting as a court of impeachment, the senators shall be upon oath or affirmation, and no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of a majority of the senators elected. Art. 87. Judgments in case of impeachment shall extend only to removal from office, and disqualification from, holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the State; bult the convicted parties shall, nevertheless, be subject to indictment, trial and punishment, according to law. Art. 88. All officers against' whom articles of impeachment may be preferred, shall be suspended from the exercise of' their functions during the pendency of auch] impeachment; the appointing power may make a provisional appointment to replace any suspended officer uiitil the decision of the impeachment., Art. 89. The Legislature shall provide by law for the trial, tunishment, and removal from office of all other officers of the State by indictment or otherwise. by the Supreme Court without the concurrence of a majority of the judges comprising the court. Whenever the majority cannot agre e, in consequence of the recusation of a n y member of the court, t he judges not recused shall have power to call upon any judge or judges of the in ferior courts, whose duty it shall be, when so called upon, to si t in the place of the judge or judges recused, and t o a id in determining the case. Art. 75. All judges, by vir tu e of their office, shall be conserva tors of the peace throughout the State. Th e style of all process shall be " the S tat e of Louisiana." All prosecutions shall b e carried on in the n ame and by the authority of the State of L o uisia na, and conclude against the peace and dignit y of the same. Art. 76. The ju dges of a ll courts with in the State shall, as often as it may be advisable so to do, in every definitive judgment, refer to the particular law in virtue of which such judgment may be rendered, and in all cases a dduce the reasons on which th eir judgment is founded. Art. 77. The judges of all courts shall be liable to impeach ment; but for an y r easonble cause, wh ich shall not be sufficient ground for impeachment, the governor shall remove any of them, on the address of a majority of the members elected to each Hous e of t he G ener al Assembly. In every such case the cause o r causes for which such r emoval may b e required shall be stated at length in the add ress, and inserted in the journal of each House. Art. 78. The judges both of the Supreme and inferior court s shall receive a salary which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office; and they are prohibi ted from receiving any fees of office or other compensation than their salaries for any civil duties performed by the m. Art. 79. Th e j udg es of the SupremeCouirt shall be appointed by th e govern or, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, for a term of eight years; the judges of the inferior courts for a term of six years. Art. 80. The clerks of the inferior courts shall be elected by the qualified voters of their several districts, and sha ll hol d their offices during a term of four years. Art. 81. The Legislature shall have power to vest in clerks of courts authority to grant such orders, and do such acts as may be deemed necessary for the furtherance of the administration of justice, and in all cases the powers thus granted shall be specified and determined. Art. 82. The jurisdiction of justices of the peace shall not exceed, in civil cases, the sum of one hundred dollars, exclusive of interest, subject to appeal in such cases as shall be provided for by law. They shall be elected by the oualified voters of their several districts, and shall hold -their office I -, 637 638 CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. TITLE VII. Art. 100. In all elections by the people GF:XN:RAR rROVLSIONS. - the vote shall be taken by ballot and in all elections by the Senate and House of Art. 90. Members of the General Assembly Representatives, jointly or separately, the and all officers, before they enter upon the vote shall be given viva voce. duties of their offices, shall take the fol- Art. 101. No member of Congress, nor lowing oath or affirmation: person holding or exercising any office of "I, (A B) do solemnly swear (or affirm) trust or profit under the United States, or that I will support the constitution and laws under any foreign power, shall be eligible of the United States, and of this State, and as a member of the General Assembly, or that I will faithfully and impartially dis- hold or exercise any office of trust or profit charge and perform all the duties incum- under the State. bent on me as, according to the best Art. 102. None but citizens of the United of my abilities and understanding, so help States shall be appointed to any office of me God!" trust or profit in this State. Art. 91. Treason against the State shall Art. 103. The laws, public records, and consist only min levying war against it, or the judicial and legislative witten proeedin adhering to its enemies, giving them aid ings of the State, shall be promulgated, and comfort. No person shall be convicted preserved, and conducted in the language of treason, unless on the testimony of two in which the constitution of the United witnesses to the same overt act, or his own States is written. confession in open court. Art. 104. No power of suspending the Art. 92. The Legislature shall have power laws of this State shall be exercised, unless to declare the punishment of treason; but by the Legislature or by its authority. no attainder of treason shall work corrup- Art. 105. Prosecutions shall be by intion of blood or forfeiture, except during dictment or information. The accused shall the life of the person attainted. have a speedy public trial, by an impartial Art. 93. Every person shall be disqualified jury of the parish in which the offence shall from holding any office of trust or profit, in have been committed, He shall not be this State, and shall be excluded from the compelled to give evidence against himself; right of suffrage, who shall have been con- he shall have the right of being heard, by victed of treason, perjury, forgery, bribery himself or counsel; he shall have the or other high crimes or misdemeanors. right of meeting the witnesses face to fide, Art. 94. All penalties shall be propor- and shall have compulsory process for obtioned to the nature of the offence. taining witnesses in his favor. He shall Art. 95. The privilege of free suffrage not be twice put in jeopardy for the same shall be supported by laws regulating elec- offence. tions, and prohibiting, under adequate pen- Art. 106. All persons shall be bailable alties, all undue influence thereon from by sufficient sureties, unless for capital power, bribery, tumult, or other improper offences, where the proof is evident or prepractice. sumption great; or, unless after conviction Art. 96. No money shall be drawn from for any offence or crime punishable with the treasury but in pursuance of specific death or imprisonment at hard labor. The appropriation made by law; nor shall any privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall appropriation of money be made for a not be suspended, unless, when in cases of longer term than two years. A regular rebellion or invasion. the public safety may statement and account of the receipts and require it. expenditures of all public moneys shall be Art. 107. Excessive bail shall not be republished annually, in such manner as shall quired; excessive fines shall not be imbe prescribed by law. posed, nor cruel and unusual punishments Art. 97. It shall be the duty of the Gen- inflicted. eral Assembly to pass such laws as may be Art. 108. The right of the people to be proper and necessary to decide differences secure in their persons, houses, papers and by arbitration. effects, against unreasonable searches and Art. 98. All civil officers for the State at seizures, shall not be violated; and no warlarge shall be voters of, and reside within rants shall issue but upon probable cause, the State; and all district or parish officers supported by oath or affirmation, and parshall be voters of, and reside within their ticularly describing the place to be searched respective districts or parishes, and shall and the person or thing to be seized. keep their offices at such places therein as Art. 109. No ex post facto or retroactive may be required by law. law, nor any law impairing the obligations Art. 99. All civil officers shall be re- of contracts, shall be passed, nor vested movable by an address of a majority of the rights be divested, unless for purposes of members elected to both Houses, except public utility, and for adequate compensathose the removal of whom has been other- tion previously made. wise provided by this constitution. Art. 110. All courts shall be open; and CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. every person, for any injury done him, in gambling house, and five hundred dollars his lands, goods, person, or reputation, on each tombola. shall have remedy by due course of law, Art. 117. The Legislature may enact genand right and justice administered without eral laws regulating the adoption of childeniar or unreasonable delay. dren, emancipation of minors, changing of Art. 111. The press shall be free; every names, and the granting of divorces; but citizen may freely speak, write and publish no special laws shall be enacted relating to his sentiments on all subjects-being re- particular or individual cases. sponsible for an abuse of this liberty. Art. 118. Every law enacted by the Legis Art. 112. The Legislature shall not have lature shall embrace but one object, and power to grant aid to companies or associ- that shall be expressed in the title. ations of individuals, except to charitable Art. 119. No law shall be revived or associations, and to such companies or as- amended by reference to its title; but in sociatious as are and shall be formed for such case the act revived, or section the exclusive purpose of making works of amended, shall be re-enacted and published internl improvement, wholly or partially at length. within the State, to the extent only of one- Art. 120. The Legislature shall never fifth of the capital of such companies, by adopt any system or code of laws by genesubscription of stock or loan in money or ral reference to such system or code of public bonds; but any aid thus granted laws; but in all cases shall specify the sevshall be paid to the company only in the eral provisions of the laws it may enact. same proportion as the remainder of the Art. 121. Corporations shall not be crecapital shall be actually paid in by the ated in this State by special laws except for stockholders of the company; and, in case political or municipal purposes; but the of loan, such adequate security shall be re- Legislature shall provide by general law quired, as to the Legislature may seem for the organization of all other corporaproper. No corporation or individual asso- tions, except corporations with banking ciation, receiving the aid of the State as or discounting privileges, the creation, reherein provided, shall possess banking or newal or extension of which is hereby prodiscounting privileges. hibited. Art. 113. No liability shall be contracted Art. 122. In case of the insolvency of by the State as above mentioned, unless any bank or banking association, the bill the same be authorized by some law for holders thereof shall be entitled to prefersome single object or work, to be distinctly ence in payment over all other creditors of specified'therein, which shall be passed by such bank or association. a majority of the members elected to both Art. 123. No person shall hold or exerHouses of the General Assembly; and the cise, at the same time, more than one civil aggregate amount of debts and liabilities office of trust or profit, except that of justice incurred under this and the preceding arti- of the peace. cle shall never, at any time, exceed eight Art. 124. Taxation shall be equal and millions of dollars. uniform throughout the State. All property Art. 114. Whenever the Legislature shall shall be taxed in proportion to its value, to contract a debt exceeding in amount the be ascertained as directed by law. T. sum of one hundred thousand dollars. un- General Assembly shall have power to ii less in case of war, to repel invasion, or empt from taxation property actuallyusen suppress insurrection, they shall, in the law for church, school or charitable purposes. creating the debt, provide adequate ways The General Assembly shall levy an inand means for the payment of the current come tax upon all persons pursuing any interest and of the principal when the same occupation, trade or calling, and all such shall become due. And the said law shall persons shall obtain a license, as provided be irrepealable until principal and interest by law. All tax on income shall be pro are fully paid and discharged, or unless the rata on the amount of income or business repealing law contains some other adequate done. provision for the payment of the principal Art. 125. The Legislature may provide and interest of the debt. by law in what case officers shall continue Art. 115. The Legislature shall provide to perform the duties of their offices until by law for all change of venue in civil and their successors shall have been inducted criminal cases. into office. Art. 116. The Legislature shall have the Art. 126. The Legislature shall have power to license the selling of lottery tick- power to extend this constitution and the ets and the keeping of gambling houses; jurisdiction of this State over any territory said houses in all cases shall be on the first acquired by compact, with any State, or floor and kept with open doors; but in all with the United States, the same being cases not less than ten thousand dollars per done by consent of the United States. annum shall be levied as a license or tax on Art. 127. None of the lands granted by each vendor of lottery tickets, and on each Congress to the State of Louisiana for aid 639 CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. ing in constructing the necessary levees. and drains, to reclaim the swamp and overflowed lands of the State, shall be diverted from the purposes for which they were granted. Art. 128. The Legislature shall pass no law excluding citizens of this State from office for not being conversant with any language except that in which the constitution of the United States is written. Art. 129. No liability, either State,. parochial or municipal, shall exist for any debts contracted for, or in the interest of the rebellion against the United States government. Art. 130. The seat of government shall be and remain at New Orleans, and shall not be removed without the consent of a majority of both Houses of the General Assembly. Art. 131. The Legislature may determine the mode of filling vacancies in all offices for which provision is not made in this constitution. Art. 132. The Legislature shall pass no law requiring a property qualification for office. Abond in the sum of ten thousand dollars lieutenants of police, five thousand dollars, sergeants and clerks, each three thousand dollars; corporals, two thousand dollars; and privates one thousand dollars; with good and solvent security, as the law directs, for the faithful performance of their duties. The various officers shall receive a salary of not less than the following rates: The chief of police........ $250 per month. The lieutenants of police.. 150 do. do. The sergeants of police.... 100 do. do. The clerks of police...... 100 do. do.' The corporals of police.. 90 do. do. The privates(day and night) each................. -80 do. *to. TITLE IX. I-,A30R ON PUBLIC WORKS. Art. 134. The Legislature may establish t he price a nd payt o f fore men, mechanics. laborers and others employed on the public works of the State or parochial or city governments: Provided, That the compensation to be paid all foremen, mechanics,' cartmen and laborers employed oil the public works, under the government of the State of Louisiana, city of New Orleans, and the police juries of the various parishes of the State. shall not be less th an as follows, viz: Foremen, $3 50 per day; mechanics, $3 00 per day; cartmen, $3 50 per day; laborers, $2 00 per day. Art. 135. Nine hours shall constitute a day's labor for all mechanics, artizans and laborers employed on public works. TITLE VIII. CORPORATION OF THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS. Art. 133. The citizens of the city of New Orleans shall have the right of appointing the several public officers necessary for the administration of the police of said city, pursuant to the mode of elections which shall be prescribed by the Legislature; Provided. that the mayor and recorders shall be ineligible to a seat in the General Assembly; and the mayor and recorders shall be commissioned by the governor as justices of the peace, and the Legislature may vest in them such criminal jurisdiction Byw~ay be necessary for the punishment of ~or offences, and as the police and good of said city may require. The city of New Orleans shall main tain a police which shall be uniformed with distinction of grade, to consist of per manent citizens of the State of Louisiana, to be selected by the mayor of the city, and to hold office during good behavior, and removable only by a police commission composed of five citizens and the mayor, who shall be president of the board. The commission to be appointed by the gov ernor of the State for the term of two years, at a salary of not less than one thousand dollars per annum; a majority of whom shall remove for delinquencies. Members of the police when removed shall not again be eligible to any position on the police for a term of one year. Interfering or meddling in elections in any manner will be a sufficient cause for in stant dismissal from the police by the board. The chief of police shall give a penal TITLE N. INTERNAL IMPROVEMENTS. Art. 136. There shall be ap poin ted by the governor a state engineer, skilled in the theory and practice of his profession, who shall hold his office at the seat of government for the term of four years. He shall have the superintendence and direction of all public works in which the State may be interested, except those made by joint stock companie,s or such as may be under the parochial or city authorities excliisively and not in conflict with the general laws of the State. He shall commintiicate-to the General Assembly, through the governor, annually, his views concerning the same, report upon the condition of the public works in progress, recommend such measures as in his opinion the public interest of the State may require, and shall perform such other duties as may be prescribed by law. His salary shall be five thousand dollars per annum, until otherwise provided by law. The mode of appointment, number'and salary of his assistarfts shall be fixed by law. The state engineer and assistants shall give bonds for the performance of their duties as shall be prescribed by law. 640 -r CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. Art, 137. The General Assembly may create internal improvement districts, composed of one or more parishes, and may grant a right to the citizens thereof to tax themselves for their improvements. Said internal improvement districts, when created, shall have the right to select commissioners, shall hiave power to appoint officers, fix'their pay and regulate all matters relative to the improvements of their districts, provided such improvements will not conflict with the general laws of the State. Art. 138. The General Assembly may grant aid to said districts out of the funds arising from the swamp and overflowed lands, granted to the State by the United States for that purpose or otherwise. Art. 139. The General Assembly shall have the right of abolishing the office of state engineer, by a majority vote of all the members elected to each branch, and of substituting a board of public works in lieu thereof, should they deem it necessary. TITLE XI. PUBLIC' EDUCATION. Art. 140. There shall be elected a superintendent of public education, who shall hold his office for the term of four years. His duties shall be prescribed by law, and he shall receive a salary of four thousand dollars per annutim until otherwise provided bylaw: Provided, that the General Assembly shall have power by a vote of a majority of the members elected to both Houses, to abolish the said office of superintendent of public education, whenever, in their opinion, said office shall be no longer necessary. Art. 141. The Legislature shall provide for the education of all children of the State, between the ages of six and eighteen years. by maintenance of free public schools by taxation or otherwise. Art. 142. The general exercises in'-the common schools shall be conducted in the English language. Art. 143. A university shall be established in the city of New Orleans. It shall be composed of four faculties, to-wit: one of law, one of medicine, one of the natural sciences. and one of letters; the Legislatfurn shall provide by law for its organization and maintenance. Art. 144. the proceeds of all lands heretofore granted by the United States to this State for the use or purpose of the public schools, and of all lands which may hereatter be granted or bequeathed for that purpose, and the proceeds of the estates of deceased persons to which the State may become entitled by law, shall be and remain a perpetual fund on which the State shall pay an annual interest of six per cent., which interest together with the interest of the trust finds, deposited with the State by the United States, under the act of Congress, approved June 23, 1836, and all the rents of the unsold lands shall be appropriated to the purpose of such schools and the appropriation shall remain inviolable. Art. 145. All moneys arising from the sales which have been, or may hereafter be made of any lands heretofore granted by the United States to this State for the use of a specific seminary of learning, or from any kind of a donation that may hereafter be made for that purpose, shall be and remain a perpetual fund, the interest of which at six per cent. per annum shall be appropriated to the promotion of literature and the arts and sciences, and no law shall ever be made diverting said funds to any other use than to the establishment and improvement of said seminary of learning: and the General Assembly shall have power to raise funds for the organzation and support of said seminary of learning in such manner as it may deem proper. Art. 146. No appropriation shall be made by the Legislature for the support of any private school or institution of learning whateve. but the highest encouragement shall be granted to public schools throughout the State. TITLE XII. MODE OF REVISING THE CONSTITUTION. Art. 1t7. Any amendment or amendments to this constitution may be proposed in the Senate oli House of Representatives, and if the same shall be agreed to by a majority of the members elected to each Hoiiuse, such, proposed amendment or amendments shall be entered on their journals, with the yeas and nays taken thereon. Such proposed amendment or amendments shall be submitted to the people at an election to be ordered by said Legislatuie, and held within ninety days after the adjournment of the same, and after thirty days publication according to law; and if a majority of ~he voters at said election shall approve and ratify such amendment or amendments, the same shall become a part of the constitution. If more than one amendment be submitted at a time, they shall be submitted in such manner and form, that the people may vote for or against each amendment separately. TITLE XIII. S CHIEDULE. Art. 148. The constitution adopted in 1852 is declared to be superceded by this constitution; and in order to carry the same into effect, it is hereby declared and ordained as follows: 642 CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. Art. 149. Allrights, actions. prosecutions, it shall be the duty of the governor, the claim,s and contracts, as well of individu- secretary of state, the attorney general and als as of bodies corporate, and all laws in the state treasurer, in the presence of all force at the time of the adoption of this such persons as may choose to attend, to constitution, and not inconsistent there- compare the votes at the said election for with. shall continue as if the same had not the ratificatien or rejection of this constitu been adopted. tion, and if it shall appear at the close, Art. 150. In order that no inconvenience that a majority of all the votes given is for may restltt to the public service from the ratifying this constitution, then it shall be taking effect of this constitution, no officer the dutty of the governor to make proc shall be suiperce(led therebv; but the laws lamation of the fact, and thenceforth this ofthis Stat.e relative to the duties of the constitution shall be ordained and estab several officers, executive, jludicial and lished as the constitution of the State of military, except those made void by military Louisiana. But whether this constitution authority, and by the ordinance of' emanci- be accepted or rejected it shall be the d,ity pation, shall remain in full force, thougih of the governor to cause to be published the same be contrary to this constitution, the result of the polls, sowing. the nlum and the several dutit,s shall be petfotrihed ber of votes cast in each parish for and by the respective offi-(els of' the State, ac- against this constitution. cording to the existing laws. until the or- Art 15 Art. 154. As soon as a general election ganization of thegvrmnu netis an be held under this con stitution in constitution, and the en,tering, into office of v pan o he Stae, the govnor e~very parish of the State, the governor the new officers to be appointed utnder said selrby prla tate, ornor shal by p roclamation. or in case of his government, and no long~er. goermet Indo failure to act. the Legislature shall. by re Art.. The Le sltre salr sohlution. declare the fact, and order an for the removal of a~ll caus,,es now pending 1 election to be held on a day fixed in said in the Supreme Court or other courts of proclamation or resolution, and within proclamation oi iesoltition, and withini the State uinder the constitution of 1852, to sixty days friom the date thereof. for gover courts created by or under this constitu- lo nor, lieutenant governor, secretary of ~~tion.ESlt state, auditor, treasurer, attorney general TITLE xIv. e o f TITL Al). and superintendent of education. The of: O l D I X A N C E. ficers so cl-iosen shall, on the foiii th Monday Art. 152. Immediately after the adjourn- after their election, be installed into office; ment of the Convention, the governor shall and shall hold their officts for the terms issue his proclamation directing the several prescribed in this constitlition, counting officers of this State, authorized by law to from the second Monday in January next hold. elections, or in detf'alt thereof such preceding their entering into office in case they do not enter into office on that date. officers as he shall designate, to open and they donot enter into office on th at date. hold polls in the several parishes of theoffice on th e Stdate officers State, at the places designated by law. on elected on the 22d day of Febrary, 1864 the first Mlondlgy of September, 1864, for shall expire on the instalation of their sucthe purpose of taking the sense of the good cessors as herein provided for; but under people of this State in regard to the adop- no state of circumstances shall their term tion or rejection of this constitution: and of office be construed as extending beyond the length of the terms fixed for said ofit shall be the duty of said officers to receive the length of the terms fixed for said of the suffrages of all qualified voters. Each fices in this constitution; and, if not sooner voter shall express his opinion by dleposi- held, the election of their successors shall ting in the ballot-box a ticket whereon shall take place on the first Monday of Novem be written The Constitution accepte ber, 1867. in all parishes where the same or, " The Constitution rejectedl.' At the can be held, the officers elected on that conclusion of the said election, the officers date to enter into o)ffice on the second Monand commissioners appointed to preside day in January, 1868. over the same shall careflully examine and Art. 155. This constitution shall be puibcount each ballot as deposited. and shall lished in,three papers to be selected by forthwith make due return thereof to the the president of the Convention, whereof. secretary of state, in conformity to the pro- two shall publish the same in English and visions of law and usages in regard to French, and one in German, from the elections. period of the adjournment of the Conven Art. 153. Upon the receipt of said re- tion until the election for ratification or turns, or on the third Monday of Septem- rejection on the first Monday of Septeinber, if t he re turns be not sooner received, ber, 1864. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~Ibeen adopte. 1 643 CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Louisiana JOHN P. MONTAMAT, ROBERT MORRIS, EDWARD MURPHY, M. W. MURPHY, RBLL, LUCIEN P. NORMANDY P. K. O'CONNER, JOHN PAYNE, EUDALDO G. PINTADO;, O. H. POYNOT, JOHN PURCELL, SAMUEL PURSELL, J. B. SCHROEDER, MARTIN SCHNURR, WILLIAM H. SEYMOUR, ALFRED SHAW, J CHARLES SMITH, JOHN A. SPELLICY, WILLIAM TOMPKINS STOCKER, J. H. STINER, C. W. STAUFFER, J. RANDALL TERRY, T. B. THORPE, JOHN BUCKLEY, JR., JOHN W. THOMAS, ERNEST J. WENCK, W. H. WATERS, E THOMAS M. WELLS, JOSEPH HAMILTON WILSON, JOHN A. NEWELL, ROBERT W. TALIAFERRO, A M. F. BONZANO, H. MILLSPAUGH, LOUIS GASTINEL, JOSEPH V. BOFILL, BENJAMIN H. ORR, PGEO. F. BROTT, JOHN K. COOK, H. MAAS. JNO. E. NEELIS, Secretary. H. C. EDWARDS, JAMES ENNIS, W. R. FISH, G. H. FLAGG, PATRICK HARNAN, EDMOND FLOOD, JOHN FOLEY, G. A. FOSDICK, JAMES FULLER, GEORGE GEIER, JOS. GORLINSKI, JEREMIAH J. HEALY, JOS. H. BALCH, EDWARD HART, THOMAS ONG, JOHN HENDERSON, JR., ROBERT W. BENNIE, ALFRED C. HILLS, JOHN SULLIVAN, WILLIAM H. HIRE, GEORGE HOWES, M.D. KAVANAGH, P. A. KUGLER, -ILLIAM DAVIS MANN, XAVIER MAURER, 643