^'a^^^ . '\'*'-^**l<^'^ %'-^'^\o^'^'^ \.''*'».?^^'^ \ \^^^i^>- ./°"o "-!P^? - 6"' M O « J- « o »' * a5°^ k, ' « .40, > .■^* "^ * <^ '^- " \''-r,^'\/" V'^^*'/' "V^'V.. ^ ^'' V'^^^'/ '^^'^^^^^^^ "^^"*^^^*/ ■ 'o . » * A „ . <^ *^TVT* .0 iOv. ' V, "' *^^ • ^-^^^ V 0.^°^ ,HO«v .^.kl^i^*^. ^^^ .-^^ >.:i*i:'/'^^ ..,^\^^;^v "^^ A^^^•A>" CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS '^' HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVEvS SIXTY-THIRD CONGRESS Second Session ON H. R. 9302 DECEMBER 5, 1913 STATEMENTS OF HON. OSCAR S. STRAUS PROF. FRED. M. FLING MR. JOHN A. STEWART HON. CORNELIUS A. PUGSLEY MR. ANDREW B. HUMPHREY PROF. HENRY S. DRINKER DR. ALBERT SHAW MR. HENRY C. MORRIS PROF. JAMES BROWN SCOTT MRS. JOHN MILLER HORTON WASHINGTON GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFPICK 1914 ^*r^ c 'p:i^ COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS. House of Representatives. sixty-third congress. (Committee room, gallery .floor, west corridor. Telephone 230.) HENRY D. FLOOD, Virginia, Chairman. CHARLES B. SMITH, New York. JOHN R. WALKER, Georgia. HORACE W. VAUGHAN, Texas. HENRY A. COOPER, Wisconsin. RICHARD BARTHOLDT, Missouri. GEORGE W. FAIRCHILD, New York. STEPHEN G. PORTER, Pennsylvania. W. D. B. AINEY, Pennsylvania. JOHN J. ROGERS, Massachusetts. HENRY W. TEMPLE, Pennsylvania. WILLIAM O. SHARP, Ohio. CYRUS CLINE, Indiana. JEFFERSON M. LEVY, New York. JAMES M. CURLEY, Massachusetts. J. CHARLES LINTHICUM, Maryland. ROBERT E. DIFENDERFER, Pennsylvania WILLIAM S. GOODWIN, Arkansas. CHARLES M. STEDMAN, North Carolina. EDWARD W. TOWNSEND, New Jersey. B. P. HARRISON, Mississippi. Robert Catlett, Cleric. B. F. Oden, A.isistant Clerk 2 D. OF D, FES 9 '^^^. ^^ i f CELEBRATION OE THE TREATY 0¥ GHENT. Committee on Foreign Ab^faiks, House of Representatives, Wasliingtoii, December 5, 1913. The committee assembled at 2.30 o'eloek p. m., Hon. Henry D. Flood (ehairmaii) presiding. The Chairman. Mr. Stewart, what bill do you desire to discuss this afternoon? Mr. Stewart. It is House bill 9302. Tlie Chairman. Introduced by Mr. Smith, of New York? Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Are you gentlemen ready to proct^ed t STATEMENT OF HON. OSCAR S. STRAUS, OF NEW YORK CITY. Mr. Straus. Mr. C'hairman, my remarks will be brief. We come before you for the purpose of urging the passage of the bill 11. R. 9302 ; but if, in the judgment of your committee, any other bill will be more desirable, we will be well satisfied. We are asa Nation fortunate in the fact that, together with Great Britain, we are able to celebrate 100 years of peace, and we believe that a celebration of so important an event in the history of peace will be more valuable than countless sermons, speeches, professions, pious wishes, and hopes. Here is a concrete fact that we are able to commemorate, not only for the welfare of the two Nations who afford this example, but for all nations, that two great nations can live side by side with a boundary of nearly 4,000 miles and for a period of 100 years can settle all of their differences without recourse to war, is a beautiful and a most gratifying fact. But our purpose is larger than that. We believe that such a celebration, fittingly made, will be the best harbinger of hope for the maintenance of peace for years to come — we hope unending years — • and that this example will be of great benefit to the world at large. Some four years ago, unofficial committees were formed for the purpose of bringing the subject before the American people; and we have been working and doing the best we could in arousing public attention; and we have been wonderfully successful. The subject has been most sympathetically taken up in Canada by the leading officials and public citizens of that Dominion. It has been taken up enthusiastically in Great Britain; and a very large and important committee, comprising the leading men in public life and in private life in Great Britain have associated themselves together as the British Committee for the Celebration of the One Hundred Years of Peace, under the presidency of Earl Grey, formerly the Governor General of Canada. 3 4 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. And Diily a few months a^o. in the month of September, I had a long conlVrence with him \vhih> resi(Hng luuh^- his roof, where I spent several (hivs: and T became thoroughly acquainted witli Uie work that is l)eing done there. And tliey have moved forward in a very practical way, and, as I understand, arrangements have already been made for the purchase of Sulgrave Manor, the home of the Washing- U)ns, which is to be J)reser^'ed as a public monument to that great family of our first President, for the glory of both countries. What is needed now is some official recognition and a proof of official interest on the part of our Government in the furtherance of this plan. Antl we appear before you gentlemen, feeling tliat we do not need to make any long speeches to you, as we know that you will appreciate the purposes in view and the great good that can be effected. Our appeal to you now is to give this great cause tliat ofiicial govern- mental sanction and approval by th? passage of this biU or some simi- lar bill. There is no one connected with this movement who desires any recognition. There are no personal vanities at stake. We are interested in this cause for the cause's sake; and we will feel that we have been fully compensated if you now take up th:> subject in such a way as in your judgment may seem best, believing and knowing, as we"^do, that if vou will take action in the form of this l)ill, or any other form that appears to you best, the cause will immediately secure official action on the part of the Government of Great Britain, and on the part of our sister Commonwealth of Canada. It is not intendiul to coniine this commemoration to the three countries involved, nanicTy, the United States, Great Britain, and Can- ada; but we have hope and we expect that there will be associated in this conmiemoration the leading nations of the world, and that every o})portunitv and every inducement will h? given to them: and we feel confident that they will gladly associate themselves with a .commemoration which is" significant to the whole peace-loving world . Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, may I address a question to Mr. Straus ? The Chairman. Certainly. Mr. Harrison. How^ do you propose to celebrate this, Mr. Straus? Have the promoters (^f this ])roposition any particular plans m contemplation ? • • i Mr. Straus. 1 here have been several ])lans tentatively laid out, of which soniL' of the other gentlemen who are here can give you the details. But thos.' are simply plans that will be laid befor.^ you tentatively. Mr. IIaIumson. In order to get the matter clearly in mmd, what, il anything, have Canada, or Great Britain, or Ireland, or any of the other c<)untries done toward carrying out this proposition? Mr. Straus. Well, this very great and important coinmittee^ probablv ace between the two countries. There lias to be some work done of a literary nature. We have in view a plan that is now in process of working out, of tlu^ writing of a history (^f tlie last hundred years, by some distin- guished authoiity, I think Prof. Dunning, a very distinguished his- torian and professor of ('olund:)ia I'^niversity. The Chairman. Is it your undeistan(hng, Mi\ Straus, that this commission to be appointed under this bill woidd recommend plans for the celebration of the hundredth anniversary of the signing of the Treaty of Ghent, and would also recommend tlie erection of a memorial ( Mr. Strains. My recommendation is that this committee shouM take the whole subject under its consideration. The Chairman. I mean the commission to be a])poiiii(Ml under this bill ? Mr. Strat\s. I mean thi^ commisvsion shou.ld tak(> tlu^ whok^ sub- ject under consideration. Mr. Bartholdt. Mr. Chairman, if you will pennit me 1 should like to say this: Tlu^ only difliculty that I can see is that this bill provides merely for the ap])ointment of a commission. Mr. Straus. Yes. Mr. Bartiioldt. And that commission is to elaboi'ate a plan for the particular form of the celel)i'ation. Now, that means tliat that commission is to re])ort back to Congress?' The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Bartiioldt. And then Congress would Ivdvv to be called upon to take action again, a second time, on the approval of the ])lan. Is that correct ? Mr. Strai-s. That is my understanding of it. Mr. Baiiholdl. Mr. Bartiioldt. Now, "the intervening liiiK- is very short. The celebration i,. in b{> next year. G CELEBRATION OF THE TEEATY OF GHENT, Mr. Straus. Vos. Mr. Bartiioldt. And there will be only one session of Congress intervening between the time of the celebrtition and this present nionient. Mr. Straus. Yes. Mr. Bartholdt. So I doubted in my own mind wliether it would l)e practicable to come back to Congress again or whether it would not be better for this committee to elaborate a plan and lay it before the House for approval. The CiiAiRMAX. Is this to be done in conjunction with any other committee that is to be appointed? Mr. Harrison. The bill says so. Mr. Bartiioldt. Yes; this commission is to confer with, similar commissions to be appointed by Great Britain and Canachi, and also other commissions — of course, I do not know what commissions they refer to— in the United States. Mr. Straus. Well, there are State commissicms. Mr. Harrison. Mr. Straus, (k) you not think there ought to be some limitations on the authority of this commission as to the cost of any proposition they might devise ? Mr. Straus. My own view is — Mr. Stewart will explain a little further — that if we can as promptly as possible get some recognition on the part of our Government as a starter, it will be a tremendous encouragement to legislation in Canada and in Great Britain; and I think the niost a(hdsable thing for us to do is to enact a bill of this kind making a small appropriation which might be passed as quickly as possible in order to effect the purpose I referred to, and then, sub- sequently, if you please, in another bill, let the committee elaborate such a plan as it c esires. The Chairman. Your chief desire at present is to get some recog- nition from this Government of the w^ork of the committee that has been preparing for this celebration ? Mr. wStraus. Yes, sir; that is the chief purpose. ]Mr. Harrison. Well, Mr. Straus, under this bill if it passes this commission is to take up the work of other commissions in other countries, to w^ork out a plan? Mr. Straus. Yes. Mr. Harrison. Suppose that they fuialh^ agreed on marking the boundary between Canada and the United States, which would cost, let us say, roughly estimating it, $5,000,000, and they should recom- mend or report back to Congress that that woik should be done in connnemoration, in connection with other celebrations. Do you not think that if this commission, working jointly with these other com- missions, shouhl recommend that, and the Congress sliould turn that report down, Enghind or Canada might feel badly about it and liold it against us that we chd not carry out this report ? Mr. Straus. I think not. I do not see how that couhl be. It says here, ''to report to (\>ngress a plan for the appro])riate celebra- tion, in the National Capital and elsewhere;" so that in the very pas- sage of the bill it is shown that this is simply a preliniinary commis- sion looking toward such action as Congress might deom ])roper; and it is to be assumed that that pndiminary commission, the way it is provided for in the bill, will be sensible and make sensible and prac- ticable suggestions, and such that can be reasonably carried out. That is the way it seems to me. CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. T The Chairman. Do you think it is necessary to have such an- ehiborate coniniission as provided in this bill^ Mr. Straus. I think it woukl be wise to have a verj^ responsible commission. We are not cUstinetly wedded to it in this particular form; but I tliink it would be well "to make it a dignified, large com- mission, which could thoioughly advise Congress. STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN A. STEWART. Mr. Stb'.wart. Mr. Chaii-man and gentlemen of tlie cojnmittee^ having been morefvdly identified with tlie detail work of our American commUtee, T can ex])Iain to you some of the things that have beeiv done and tlie causes which have led us to do certain things. I would like to make this statement, as a matter of record, so it ma}^ be plain to every one of the connnittee and tlie Ameiican publie: That whil(^ this movement was organized in AnuM'ica to celebrate the hundiedth anniversary of the signing of the treaty of Ghent, that anniversary was made the pretext, or the reason, for our passing a resolution "at the meeting at which we were organizing, inviting France, Germany, Italy, and the other nations of the world to ])ai- ticipate witli usin a univeisal celebration. That has been our pur- pose from the very beginning; and we have tried repeatedly to make it cleai-, although there seems to be a very wides]u'ead misunderstand- ing as to this our original purpose. This, tlien, was to be and is to be a universal celebration; and immediately subsequent to the passage of this resolution we put l)efore representatives of the various nations, tlirouirh men of eminence in our own committee, our full plan of celebration. Aftei- we had organ- ized nationally, we assisted in the organization ot committees in Canada, in Great Britain, in Austria, and other parts of the world; and if you will look at our year'oook you will see that numbers o,f ambassadors, among them Mr. Jusserand, and ministers are honorary members of our association. After the Canadian and British committees had been formed, we conferred with them with reference to practicable plans of celebra- tion; and the British committee as a part of their share in this gen- eral celebration hpve already purchased Selgrave Manor, and they have arranged with the authorities of Westminster Abbey to erect there and to have dedicated in 1915 a memorial to George Washington. They are also, in connection with the Anglo-American Exposition^ to erect a fund which w411 create a lectureship memorial in connection with the Selgrave Manor. The trustees of the manor have already been appointed. Mr. Brice, as I understand it, is to be the head of that memorial and to deliver the first formal address upon the relations between America and Great Britain. In other ways the British committee has already prepared to celebrate the centenary of the signing of the treaty of" Ghent. Now, in our turn, we have done certain concrete things. We have engaged Prof. Dunning, of Columbia University, the president of the American Historical Society, not to rewrite history or anything of that kind, but to write a history of the centenary of peace with particular relation to international treaties and agreements. That is to say, he is to explain and elucidate wdiat has been done as between us and other nations with relation to the peaceful settlement of 8 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. disputes. Such matters are but lightly touched upon in our school liistories, and this is Prof. Dunning's task. His work will be purely a recital of fact and contain but little comment. Our American committee, under the impulse of a desire expressed in Chicago, is to present to the British committee a replica of St. Gautlens's very famous statue of Lincoln, and we intend and have ah-eady taken steps to present to the people of the great nations of the world, tlirough committees to be organized or which have already been organized, some memorial — some gift — that will express apprecia- tion on our part of the fact that we have had, in many instances, un- broken peace, and in some other instances our gifts will be a testi- mony and covenant that, so far as may be humanly possible, we will not break the peace as between us and other nations. AU these things wg have done. We have, besides, organized com- mittees in all of the States. We have organized committees in 76 cities and localities. Most of these committees are active, and some of them have already done important work. Some of the States have estabhshed by legislation State commissions. As the result of our Richmond conference, we intend to ask the State governments to celebrate together at one time, on the 17th and 18th of February, which are the anniversaries of tiie days on which the treaty of Ghent was in the one instance ratified and in the other instance proclaimed. Mr. Straus. In what year? Mr. Stew^art. In 1815. Mr. Straus. Yes. Mr. Stewart. Wo hope, therefore, to have a simultaneous cele- bration in a formal way; that is, by delivering addresses and having ceremonies, etc., at the State capitals and elsewhere. Then we are trying to arrange for the celebration of the very strik- ing fact that never, as between us and Germany, only once as between us and France, never as between us and Italy and many other nations, luis the peace been broken by any act on the part of either that would lead to war. And we in various ways intend to signalize those events. Now, if I may reply to the query made a few moments ago by the Kepresentative. The Chairman. Mr. Harrison. Mr. Stewart. We have come to an understanding, of course en- tirely in an unofficial and informal way, with the British and Cana- (lian committees. And may I say this? That it has been said pub- licly and has been said to me privately that Canada stands ready to match anything that the Government of the United States may do for the purpose of this celebration in making it a success and as an earnest of tlieir good faith and of their Iriendsliip for us; and there has been suggested, among other things, that the l)()undary line be suitably marked by some form of memorial. Canada's ideas are not extravagant, and neither are ours. In fact, the greatest support given to any proposal made by r.ny artist or sculptor or by any man in authority upon the subject of monuments was given to the propo- sition made by Mr. Gutzoji Bonh;, whose head of Lincoln graces the Rotunda of t e C;i])it()l, that we could take some of the enormous boulders left by the gh^ciers and ])laee on the face of them bronze tablets with a fitting inscription; which would be more dignified than iiny enormous pih' of ])oUshed granite or marbh that tlu' sculptors CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHEXT. 9 and artists niul architects of this country or of tlic world coidd clal)orat(^ And our whole idea as to luonuments i-; something sijii])h' and dig- iiilied: so that we shall not ask for, and we shall not try to raise, any enormous sums of mon;>y for thiis purpose. What we do hojK' to do, however, aside from the mere celebralion, is to liave cei'tain endow- ments created ; and we have not oidy the hope, hut we have the assur- ance, in certain ))a7ls, that they will he created: and among these is one to p(>rmii us to hi'ing ahoul an interchange of iu>wspa))er men. I do not lucan hy this the men who have estai)Uslicd re])Utations as great authoi-s and whose names signed to almost any sort of produc- tion will bring Si or $2 a word, hut the men who really are the real molders of public opinion in this country and in other countries — the working news])aper men, who lell J he story of the doings of every day in their own language in the newspapers. We want to send newspaper men all tiirough the world, to France, (Jermany, Great Britain, and ('ana(hi. and to keep them th(>re through a term of years, that they may educate tliemselves into an understand- ing of the personaUt}' and of the traits and character of the peoples of the world, and that they may put them understandingly before our people, so that we may in turn understand people of other mrtions a little better. And we want to bring newspaper men from Gennany France, and other parts of the world to America, that they in turn may he educated to understand us and that they may interpret us to the people of the country from which they come. Then we want to establish endowments for lectureships and inter- change of professors, and for a number of other purposes, all of which are purel}^ a private matter for our own committee, and of course we shall obviously not ask Congress or the Government to appropriate a penny for such purpose. Mr. Harrison. Mr. Stewart, can you give us any idea, roughly, of what would b? the cost of this celebration according to the ])laiis that you have mapped out or considered if Mr. Stewart. According to our own plans, with what we should hope to raise privately and in connection with these various endow- ments, which are really an aftermath of the celebration, it will prol)- ably cost several million dollars. Mr. Harrison. How many millions ( Mr. Stewart. Oh, so far as the celebration itself is concerned and otticial participation, we hope and expect that the most eminent men of the various countries of the world will come here; and we have been told hy various representatives of other governments that, in all likelihood, we shall be callrAN. What we arc anxious to ascertain, Mr. Stewart, is how nuK'h YOU an' hkely to ask the GoYernmcnt to a])propriate for the |)ur))os(s of this celebration 'i Mr. Stewart. Well, in the first instance, there is the ])lan of official }>articipation. Now, we haYe no plans in that regard at all; we are leaving that matter entirely to the Government, with the statement on our ])art that we have, as I say, received assurances from our friends in other lands that there will be men here of the very highest eminence, whom the Government would delight to honor, and wlio if they sliould come here they would have to come here and be oliicially recognized, or undoubtedly many of them could not come — and for obvious reasons. I should say that, under the tei-ms of this bill, all of the immediate necessities of the celebration would be cared for here up to tlie time of a submission to Congress of a comprehensive plan of Government participation, because we do not hope that as a result of our efforts or througli Government ap]:)i-opi iation to complete all of these monu- ments, and it is not our intention to do so. We want to complete what we can. We want to have a respectable number finished. We w\ant to start, perhaps, one or two, and trust to the future and to the sentiment evoked by this celebration to bring about tlieir completion. So that it is very hard to answer concretely your question, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Harrison. Can you give us any idea ? The reason I ask the question is that if we go into tlie House with a proposition like this the Members will want to know al)out the appioximate cost of it ; and if you can not give them any ideas as to the cost of a proposition, you fail down with the proposition. Mr. Stewart. Well, I should say, from what I iiave learned in Canada and elsewhere, that it is rather tlie consensus of view that the ultimate cost in toto of this celebration would not be mucJi over half a milhon dollars. What do you think, Mr. Humphrey ? That is aside, as I say, from such monuments as may be built far in the future. Mr. Harrison. T^et us take into consideration the monuments also. How mucli do you think it would cost ? Mr. Stewart. That is a poser. I should say several million dollars. Mr. Harrison. How many millions? Mr. Steavart. Three or four. Mr. Straus. Oli, no. It rlepcMids, of coiu'se, u.pon what moniuuents they decide upon. The Chairman. Do you expect Congress to ultimately appropriate that much money? Is that what you mean? Mr. Stewart. Xo; Congress would undoubtedly listen to the request of its own commission, ])rovided a commission were created, in the carrying out of any plan that iho commission might prepare. Mr. Harrison. The Ignited ^States would put up its pro rata share of that amount, would it not ? Mr. Stewart. We understand that Canada will put up, dollar for dollar, whatever the United States is willing to ai)i)ropriate in our conunon ex])ense. And we also understand lliat the United States having taken the initiative in this celebration, Gieat Britain and the component CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 11 iiKMiibors of the Biilish I<]m])ir(' stand I'cady to follow whalfvcr tliM Goveninionl of the Ihiilcd Slates may do. Mr. Sharp. Mr. Stewart, have you any well-defined plan that you and your associates are at work upon to he carried out ? Have you'got that" far? Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir. Mr. Sharp. What do you contemplate, biiefly stated i Mr. Stewart. We ho])e to see erected along the boundary between the United Stales and (\inada certain monuments that will signalize the peace that lias prevailed between us for the last hundred years — commemorative monuments. But, as I say, these we have ))lanncd to be plain and dignified. ^^I■. IIuni])hrey, who was chairman of the committee on nuMuorials, can submit a list of the ])ropositions which we have considered. The Chairman. They are to be paid for by the two Governments? Mr. Stewart. That does not necessarily follow. The State gov- ernments and the Provincial Governments stand ready to appropriate something toward their payment. In some instances, they will be entirely jiaid for by the State and Provincial Governments and by public subscriptions. The Chairman. But in the event the State and Provincial Gov- ernments fail to do so Mr. Stewart. Then, as I understand it, the Dominion Govern- ment stands ready to match the money contributed by the Uniterl States, dollar for dollar. The Chairman. The Dominion Government and this Government would pay for them ? Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir; the Dominion Government and this Gov- ernment would pay for it. The Chairman. "Wliat would be the cost, in j^our opinion, of the celebration itself ? ]\Ir. Stewart. Well, the celebration is divided into three parts — the national celebration, which is to be here in the District of Co- lumbia, the National Capital; the State celebrations, which will be held on the 17th and 18th of February, 1915; and then local cele- brations, which \nll follow the order estabhshed for them, from East and South to North and West. The local celebrations, of course, are purely a local matter; and no appropriation is asked for them. So are the State celebrations entirely a State matter, and no appropriation is asked for them. All that we are asking for is the creation of tliis commission, antl the participation of the United States Government in such celebra- tion as is taken part in by Great Britain, Canada, and other nations. In other words, the international celebration, and the erection of monuments. The Chairman. That is what I was asking about: What appro- priation would be asked of Congress to bear the expenses of the celebration itself? Mr. Stewart. Well, I should say S500,000 would cover that. Mr. Straus. $500,000, and the S150,000 for all the prehminary part of the work. Mr. Stewart. Yes; and probablv all of that might not be used, and that could l)e apphed to the .S500,000. 12 CELEBKATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. The Chairman. Wliere do you propose that these commissions should moot, the commissions on the part of Canada, Great Britain, and other countries ? Mr. Stewart. I should say that, as with meetings of our own commission with the British, the Australian, the Newfoundland, and the Canadian commissions, which met in the city of New York, that other commissions might accept invitations to come here to meet. The Chairman. I mean the ioint meeting contemplated by this hill? Mr. Stewart. I assume there might be two meetings, one meeting here in Washington and perhaps a meeting in London. We have had joint meetings; we expect to have a joint meeting this coming year in London. The Chairman. Well, the ex officio members of this commission as designated in this bill are representative men. Mr. Stewart. Yes. The Chairman. And will be very busy the first half of next year. Mr. Stewart. Well, of course, so far as the personnel of the com- mission is concerned — in fact, the entire bill itself is simply intro- duced, through the courtesy of Representative Smith, by way of suggestion. We have no pride in the proposition at all, and we simply lay the matter before Congress in the form of this bill iu order that you gentlemen may criticize and change it in such par- ticulars as you may see fit. The Chairman. Then do you not recognize the force of the sug- gestion made by Dr. Bartholdt — ^for instance, this appropriation for the celebration itself would certainly have to be made before next December, v/ould it not? Mr. Stewart. Yes; it seems so. The celebration will begin on the 24th of December of this coming year. The Chairman. Now, Congress might adjourn in June. Do you contemplate this commission making a report before that time and getting an additional appropriation ? Mr. Stewart. We assume this: Our committee, for instance, has been at work now for nearly four years. We have a mass of material which we could lay before the commission inside of 24 hours if it were needed, and also reports in typewritten form of all the con- ferences we have held, everything that we have done, and which $,re, I believe, illuminative of this whole subject. So that the commission as appointed would not have t(i h.)Id very many meetings, and not very many hearings. In fact, all the information that they would want could be laid before them imme- diately. Thei-e are committees, as I say, in every State and every locality in this country. The Chairman. That is doubtless true, as you state. Jiut even so, do you not think this appropriation is ratlier too large for prelimi- nary purposes % Mr. Stewart. \' ell, ihal is for the commiltee, of coiu-se, ♦<> ^*vy. Mr. Sharp. Mr. Stewart, in that connection let me here say that, in view of the experience we had in raising about $700, OOO to Iniild the Perry Monument at Put-in-Bav, near mv home in Ohio, the form of tlie apj)roj)riation as it came out of Congress contained certain condili(ms precedent— that the various States that bordered upon these Great Lakes should contribute their ((uota — and I assume CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY Ot GSfiNT. 13 that whatoN'or is done by Congress, and whatever bill may be reported out of this committee, it will have provisos in it as conditions prece- dent that the Dominion of Canada must first satisfv Congress that so much is pledged and will be raised — the State of New York so much and these other propriati()n to get accurate surveys and plajis and estimates CELEBKATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 17 111)011 wliich a contractor could work or upon which Coui^rcss couM depeiul. All we can sav is tliat wc liavo rccoiiiiuciulcd to our com- mittee on memorials that "ihe little o;ravest(mes" that now mark the boundary be removed, and that we put sonu'thinir up theic that. will suirii;est life and sentiment, so that the hunter, the little child, or the farmer passini:; by would almost take oil" their hats, knowing that thev were on the border line of the Ignited States and Canada. We can not estimate cost until we determine what the model of the monuments shall be. It might be anywhere from :!>1(),000 to $5,000,000 — depeiuling upon what your onghicers recommend. The Chairman. How many of those would you recommend ? 'Slv. Hu.MPHHKY. I would not recommend. I should leave that entirely to Congress. The Chairman. Then you cai^ noi give us any estimate of what we would be expected to appropriate in the future i Mr. HuMPHHEY. Xo; I do not think it is advisalde to submit any estimate. 1 think that sliould be left to Congress and the com- mission under its control, to make recommendations and secure esti- mates. The Chairman. Well, vou ask us here for an a])jU'opriatipro|)riations at all if the Government would furnish the engbieors and competent i)e.ople to make such a report, and make an intelligent report. But if we have to hire competent engineers, they are very expensive, and the CELEBRATION OF THE TBEATY OF GHENT. 19 making of plans is cx})cnsivo, and the travelins; is o.x|)cnsive. The Government is in a ])osition to do this more cheaply with its own men as, for instance, with Col. Simons, wdio has had charge of the great works along the Niagara frontier. He has contributed valuable information to us without a cent of cost to us, and he is a retired Army officer. Mr. Sharp. That is along the line of my thought, that instead of now expecting us to approjiriate or recommend an appropriation of SI 50,000, for merely preliniinary purposes — we all concede that in its finality it will be very much larger than $150,000 — we make a smaller apj)roi)riation for the j^reliminary work; $150,000 is alto- gether too large for preliminary work, and not anywdiere m^ar large enough for a final a])})r()priation. Mr. Humphrey. I see your ])omt; and to answer your (juestion, I think your committee, with your great exi)erience (and this is not my first experience), I know you gentlemen are able to handle these things in an economical and thorough way; and speaking for myself and those of my colleagues, whom I know well, I should be perfectly willing to leave this matter in v^our hands, to fix that amount at $25,000 if you see fit. The amount in the bill as it was unanimously passed by the Senate last year was $100,000. It was a bill similar to this and was lost in the closing hours of Congress, because the House never had time to reach it. I think I may say, if there is no objection on the part of my col- leagues, that I am perfectly willing to leave it any way you gentlemen see fit. You represent the Government; and whatever you do will be satisfactory to us; and we will give you the benefit of our work. And I want to say that none of these gentlemen are under salary; not a dollar is paid to them for services rendered. But we will give you all we have been able to gather and accumulate, and will cooper- ate with you in every way, and leave it in your hands; and I think that will be satisfactory to all our members. Mr. Sharp. Mr. Humphrey, I want to say that, so far as I am personally concerned, it is because I am in favor of this pro])osition that I want to present a feasible proposition which Congress will pass; and I do not think it is possible to get $150,000 to spend in a pre- liminary way. Mr. Humphrey. I understand. And the time, as Mr. Bartholdt says, is very short. The expenditure of that money wdll be entirely in your hands; and if it was not all used the rest of it could be turned back. That is for you gentlemen to say. Mr. Cline. You should understand that the House very rarely returns bills back here, and this is a special appropriation. Mr. Humphrey. Well, a committee of Congress like this would doubtless have its recommendations accepted. We are perfectly willing to leave it to you. I have in my hand a list of 23 memorial propositions; but only three or four of them, I think, will be considered as proper for the Government. Such ):)ropo- sitions as the States adopt will be paid for by them; and the statue that we propose to erect to Queen Victoria in Washington will be paid for and managed by the women of the United States; and certain other things wdll be done by the 20,000,000 school children of the United States; others by the citizens in New York City, who expect 20 OELEBEATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. to erect a museum of the peaceful arts, with an ultimate cost of $30, 000, ()()(), and we do not propose to ask the ITnited States Govern- ment for a cent for those things. Part of that money is alread}' raise( 1 . That will simj^ly show you the way in wliich this celebration sentiment has grown. Take the meeting at Richmond yesterday, for exami)le. There were gentlemen from as far away as Saskatche- wan; and others from Nebraska, from Niagara Falls, Buffalo, Georgia, California, New Hampshire, etc., and various ])arts of the country. If we had time it would be very interesting for y(Hi to hear from them, about the sentiment existing in those various localities. The Chairman. I think the committee is pretty well satisfied about the public sentiment behind this movement. We just want to get at what it is practicable to get througli Congress. STATEMENT OF DR. ALBERT SHAW, OF NEW YORK CITY. Dr. Shaw. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee,. I do not think I shall take your time for more than a moment. I think the matter has been presented to you; and you understand per- fectly that we are all here with a public-spirited motive, and no other. And our motive in nowise differs from yours, except that your rsponsibility is greater than ours in handling public money. I think that the idea, which we believe to be a -very good one, and a really valuable one, should have the sanction of the Gover- ment, and if you should deem it wise to appoint a commission, and to give the commission money enough so that its necessary expenses for a preliminary survey could be met, that commission, in cooperation with the men who have really done a great deal of work, would accomplish what we desire. I met last May those international commissions in New York that came from England and Australia and Canada; and it seemed to me that they had not only large visions and varied plans, but that they were ingenuous and efficient enough to carry out many of those with money that would be raised by voluntary subscription and in private ways, But to get that accomplished efficiently would give prestige to the whole thing; and since the whole thing represents governmental action anyway, the celebration of a great governmental event, if we should get the Government to give its sanction to the w^hole idea of a celebration, and to give an official touch to the celebration as such, it has seemed to me that very many of these monuments and memorials would be built and could be built just as well by localities. I do not know of any particular reason why, for instance, memo- rials that would mark transit from ^linnesota to Manitoba could not be ])aid for by the citizens of Minnesota and Manitoba ; and I imagine that they would find a way to do that, and be glad to do it. Would they not,"Mr. Nelson? Mr. Nelson. I think so. Dr. Shaw\ I think 'so. Mr. Nelson is from Minneapolis. I lived in Minnesota once; and I think Minnesota and Manitoba w^ould take care of important projects along their boundary line. I think New York and Ontario are evolving their plans and providing pretty nearly what we want now along the fix)ntier. CELEBRATION OF THE TEEATY OF GHENT. 21 But Government oversii;ht to <;ive sui2,oestions and directions to some of those States would ])roduee more satisfactory results, witliout going very dee])ly into the Treasury. I do not helieve we need go very deeply into the Treasury to get the program achieved. But I do think that a Federal commission, which is official and which is created by act of Congress, could help to formulate and coordinate a great many of these })lans and brhig them to a focus; and it would be very possible then — I imagine Sir Kdmund Walker would be glad to come at onc(^, or within a reasoinible time, to Washington, and to confer with such commission ; and ho has given a gr<'at deal of tiiought to the matter, as several others of the loading public men of Canada have done. I imagine that plans would begin to be evolved out of suggestions very rapidly; and you would find that out of the thinking that has already been done you would get a very workable, efhcient, and at the same time economical ])rogram. There is not a single gentleman who has come here to-day wlio has the slightest desire or the slightest lurking motive which would lead the United States Government into an extravagant expenditure. I think every penny ought to be very carefully checked, and there ought to be real results for every penny spent. I have myself felt that even money appropriated by the Government for celebration purposes was more or less inefRciently expended. I should like to see it done economically; but I should like to see also very permanent and abiding results, because I believe that great value in every sense, moral and political and economical, will result from these celebrations of peace. Mr. Bartiioldt. Mr. Chairman, if you will permit me 1 should hke to ask a (juestion. The Chairmax. Certainly. Mr. Bartholdt. Mr. Bartiioldt. As I understand it, to fix the scope of this cele- bration and plan is left entirely to the United States by the Canadian and the English commissions ? Dr. Shaw. I so understand it. Mr. Bartholdt. And then after a plan has been devised to a])pro- priate the total amount, Canada and England will match, dolhii' for dollar, what we give? Dr. Shaw. The prime minister of Canada, Mr. Borden, has so stated has he not ? Mr. Stewart. Yes. Dr. Shaw. And that has been supported by Sir Edmund Walker, and a number of other Canadians, botli in public and in semipublic lite. Mr. Bartholdt. Is the Canadian (Government going to make that appropriation officially, or is the English Government going to make it, or are they going to make it jointly? Dr. Shaw. The Canadian Government Mr. Stewart (interposing). Separately. Dr. Shaw. The Canadian Government will match, dollar for dol- lar, what we give. What the P^nglish Government will do will be in addition to that and separate from that. 22 CELEBEATION OF THE TREATY OF GHEIsiT. STATEMENT OF PROF. JAMES BROWN SCOTT, OF WASHINGTON, D. C. Prof. Scott. Mr. Chairman, there is very little that I feel I should say after the matter has been so fully ])resented. It seems to me, however, that the time has come, or should come very soon, when the United States should determine whether there should be an official celebration and what manner and form that celebration should take. These .o:e.ntlemen who have labored for the last four years have created ])lan after plan, and have created a sentiment at home and abroad m favor of a celebration of 100 years of peace. But they have come to an impasse. We do not know how far we should o'o or where we should sto]), and we can not very well ask the Canadian and British authorities to pledge themselves to a celebration unless these authorities can be assured that the United States Gov- ernment itself believes that a celebration should take ])lace and takes charge of the national or the international phases of it. Dr. Shaw. \Miat w^e call the ceremonial phases of it. Prof. Scott. Now, what the Government should do we can not as private individuals suggest. It seems to me that the one thing we should do at the ])resent time is to suggest the appointment of a commission, a limited commission, if you please, giving that com- mission a small sum of money — I personally would be averse to the ap])roj)riation of a large sum of money — in order to make a ])re- liminary survey as to the nature and extent of the official national or international celebration for Avhich the I'nited States would be res])onsible. Now", if such a commission were appointed, with a modest sum of money to meet its necessary ex])enses, this commission naturally would get mto touch with the various gentlemen and the committees who have given thought to this matter for the past four years, and would be in a ])()sition to report to Congress a plan outlining the nature and the scope of this celebration, and it seems to me that at the present it is rather useless to go ahead and to outline plan after plan which shall never take place; but it w^ould be the part of wisdom, on the contrary, to a])point a small rej)resentative official and responsi- ble commission to study the various plans and then to jjresent such a project for the consideration of Congress. A\nien that is done we will know just what the Government is pre- pared to recommend, and the foreign governments will be in a position to cooperate. But at the present time everything is in the air; and therefore, for the ))iii-pose of certainty and reaching some kind of conclusion as to what should be done, 1 think a ])reliminary survey is necessary; and at that preliminary survey a study of the nature, the plan, and the scope of the celebration should be made by an official committee; and that for the purpose of carrying out the work of this commission a small sum should be appr()j)riate(l, just large enough to co\'er the expenses for work actually done. Mr. Smith. Pi-of. wScott, has not this volunteer committee done that part of tiie work already? Have they not actually accomplished what you suggest '. UiiLEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 23 Prof. Scott. No, sir: they have done a lari2;c part of tlie work. They liavo prepared many plans. It might be that the commission to be appointed mig-ht accept ])art of these phms and might reject others. If the lunuhvd years of j)eace is to be ai)propriately cek^brated, it must be done olhcialh"; and it is well to know at the very beginning just what part the Government will take in it; and the Government would preier to rely on the commissioners appointed by it to report to it a plan and the scoj^e of the celebration. The members, Mr. Stewart and his committee, the State committees, and the local com- mittees, would be very glad to place at the disposal of this commission such information and such projects as they have. But the point is to say whether the United States Government is going to do anything, and to what extent the United States Govern- ment is prepared to celebrate this event,. before any official cooperation can be asked from the foreign governments which we are seeking to interest in the movement. Mr. KoGERS. Do you care to suggest a sum which, in your opinion, this bill ought to carry? Prof. Scott. Well, I should hesitate to suggest-oft" hand a sum; but as the question has been asked I will indicate what I liad in mind. It seems to me, of course, that the commissioners to be appointed should serve gratuitously. Mr. Rogers. That is provided for in the bill. Prof. Scott. That is provided for in the bill. But, in addition to that, there should be a paid secretary; and then a certain amount should be set aside for necessary travehng and other expenses. Mr. Straus. And lor plans. Prof. Scott. I should think $25,000. Mr. Straus. That would not be enough. The Chairman. Mr. Straus, do you care to call anybody else ? STATEMENT OF PROF. FRED M. FLING, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA, LINCOLN, NEBR. Prof. Fling. Mr. Chairman, this matter has been pretty well thrashed over here, and it seems to me that the principal point, perhaps, has not been sufficiently emphasized. One point, as I understand it, is that the Government of the United States shall officially declare itself in favor of this celebration and its willingness to take some part in it. What the size of this committee shall be, how much money shall be assigned to them, what the commission shall recommend, after it has worked the thing over, it seems to me are secondary points. But here is a movement, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, that some- thing more significant be done than the celebration of the treaty of Ghent. This thing is simply part of a great movement. It is not simply to celebrate the treaty of Ghent; it is not sim])ly to celebrate 100 years of peace between England and this country; it is to lay the foundation for this great peace movement — in which you are all interested, and the representatives of the United States have been especially friendly to it at all times — the substitution of peaceful methods, taking a long step toward the substitution of a world organization for the present appeal to arms. 24 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. Now the one thing, I think, that impresses an American, Mr. Chair- man and gonthunen, who is famihar with life on the Continent as well as over lun'e, is the part that the National Government plays or the part that it (h)es not play in great affairs of this kind. Perhaps in the past it has been a good thing; I doubt it very much at present. It seems to m(> when a big thing like this comes up the initiative should not be left to individuals; it seems to me the direction of it ought to be taken out of our hands and be made truly national in character. And what kind of a celebration would this be unless it had the national stamp upon it ? We propose to leave the local phase to the citizens of the towns to take care of, but when it comes to a national celebration, a celebration meaning the participation of England, (^anada, France, Germany, and the United States— and all these oth(>r countries that will participate — what kind of a celebration would it be if the United States of America, the great moral force of this century, did not stand at the forefront? How can this com- mittee, working locallv as it has worked, represent the people of the United States ? ' As I understand, Air. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, all that is being asked here is that you recommend to the House of Representatives the creating of a commission. It is immaterial how large that committee is and how much monev shall be given it to do their work, but for that committee, by its appomtment, to recognize that the Ignited States is going to take an oP cial part in this cele- bration, and then that committee can make an estimate as to how much money they want to expend and how much mcney will be needed to carry this thing through. Now, when questions have been asked as to how much it is going to cost to do this, if vour committee is simplv going to sit (h)wn and look over the data of the other com- mittee it will not take much money; but suppose your committee undertakes to formulate larger plans and needs to employ profes- sional help to make these estimates, then it v.ill cost much more. For this preliminary w(irk T think 125,000 should do it: but it ought not to be diflcult, after talking it over with the committee, to arrive at some estimate as to what that preliminary work would be, so that you could fix the number of representatives on the committee and the amount of monev recpnred and present it to Congress. I think what the comniittee has in mind in coming here is not the particular features, not to em])hasize the number of members of the committee, nor the money to be recommended, but that the United States Gov- ernment should decide to take an offcial part in this celebration. And 1 hope, gentlemen, that after lis<^ening to the sentiment you have hv-^ard expressed, \so will have your hearty support to this end. I have been interested now a good many years — naturally, I sup- p;)se, for a university man and a teacher of young people, and es- pecially a teacher of history — in this movement for the establishment of an inteiiiational agreement to take the j)lace of war, and in going about s|).(>aking to these aiuHences 1 have been imj)ressed by the fact that everywliere, almost without exception, the idea of a celebration of this kind wms given a tremendous in)])etus. Mr. Shai?!'. 'I hat suggestion I nuide with reference to the amount was only tentative. I think the o^]1(■r. c (f ))r(pnring plans, etc., should come out of the larg,>r gcMUM'al fund whvu pi'ovided. CELEBRATION OF THE TEEATY OF GHENT. 25 Mr. Fling. I quite nf^ivo with you, sir; I do not (liiuk it is really necessary to go into that now. TBut let me say one tliino; further: I am a pretty enthusiastic and optimistic American. This country is big and i-ich. I go to the Continent and see much tliere that is far su])erior to what we get here. It is my opinion, not that we should spend mone}- lavishly, l)Ut if we make up our minds to celebrate this thing it is not a question ()f how much money we want to spend, but what kind of a memorial we want to put U]). If W(^ want to {)ut uj) a bridg(> neross the Niagara River, then we should put up the money to do that. That is the way these things are done over there. It is not a question of what we shall build for to-day or to-morrow, but this country, with its immense wealth, should try to do the finest thing that ![)ossibly can be done. I would rather see one sjileiulid thing than a whole lot of littl(> things scattered here and there — something big. Just in a little city like Lincoln we raised, three years ago, $40,000 for a statue of Lincoln. Its committee, made up of members of the assembly, procured Mr. French (the best living sculptor after St. Gaudens) to provide that statue and it was dedicated a year ago. Mr. French considers it the best thing he has ever done and, next to the work of St. Gaudens, his statue of Lincoln, I think, is the finest statue in the United States and the finest thing of Lincoln we have and we are proud of it. That is the kind of a memorial we want. We have the finest Capitol Building here in the world, and we want to match that here and there, all over the country, with big things and make this country of ours stand for somethirig fine. That is the way we are all interested in it, because it seems to me the ideal we like to see this country stand for — big things. The CriAiRMAX. Have ycni any other speakers, Mr. Humphrey? Mr. Humphrey. I see ex-Congressman Pugsley here. STATEMENT OF MR. CORNELIUS A. PUGSLEY, FORMERLY A MEMBER OF CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK. Mr. Pugsley. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, the facts in connection with this movement have been already so clearly and fully presented that it is absolutely useless for me to add any- thing to what has already been said. I am sure, however, we may safely leave to this Committee on Foreign Affairs this whole project and that it will be worked out in a most desirable and satisfactory manner for the country and so far as, this committee is concerned. STATEMENT OF DR. HENRY STURGIS DRINKER, PRESIDENT OF LEHIGH UNIVERSITY. Dr. Drinker. Mr. Chairman, to me, as I said before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations at our hearing in this matter 18 months ago, one great main idea stands out boldly — that is, that our practical American people should be brought to realize the value of this great peace asset that is theirs — the fact that for 100 years the blessing of peace has rested, with all its benefits, on Great Britain and America, the two great English-speaking nations, who, with just rule, dominate the vv^orld. 26 CELEBRATIOISr OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. When we remember the damage inflicted in the War of f812 on the commerce of England, and in our Civil War on the commerce of the United States, by war, the enormous loss in blood and money, the paral^'zation of business and of progress, the loss of precious lives, we may well feel that it is worthy of a great effort to bring home to all our people the lessons of this past hundred years of peace, and the thought of what peace and amity between the English- speaking peoples of the earth will count for in the hundred years to come, not only to them, but by way of precept and example to the whole world. STATEMENT OF MK. HENEY C. MORRIS, ATTORNEY AT LAW, CHICAGO, ILL. Mr. Morris. Mr. Chairman, on behaK of the Chicago organization I came to Richmond without any thought of attendmg this meeting in Washington. I am here to-day, however, very much interested in the discussion to which you are so kindly listening. It seems to me there are just two points I would like to emphasize in regard to the features of the proposed celebration. One is the fact that the organization of this committee is distinct from that of any other committee or any other peace organization in the United States. This American committee does not pretend, as I understand, to touch upon the subject of the general peace propaganda. It is a committee organized solely and strictly and rigorously limited to the subjects of the celebration of the 100 years of peace between Great Britain, the British dominions, and the United States of America. But, on the other hand, while it is so rigorously limited in its objects, the ])roposed celebration may be participated in by all the other nations. A resolution was adopted at Richmond, I may say, expressing the sense of that conference, and it so recommended to the American committee, that committees representing all the nationalties in our citizenship should be invited to take part in order to show the breadth of the sentiment which prevails through the country. And in order to give everyone adequate representation in the various localities it was further thought that because of the variety of racial groups within our borders, it was the sense of that conference that in all the local committees, representatives of the various nationalities should be actively engaged. So that the object of the celebration is not in any sense to be limited simply to the people of the English-speaking races. We propose to incorporate, in the management of it, in the adnnnistration, all of the various elements which form our national population and from which we draw our great national activities. I {:m very nnich imjiressed, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, with the renuu-k of Prof. Fling that it is the tenchMicy, if you })lease, on the part of this people, officially, to be indifferent to occasions of this and simiha- character. I do not mean to say it in the sense of any reproach whatever, l)ecause I know there are a great many demands upon our ])eople, for 1 know you, as a committee, have a great many such requests before you, asking you to make appropriations or that you sanction or appi-ove plans for the particii)ation of the United States in various enterprises in which a nund)cr of nations are interested. But 1 am reminded especially of this, in this connection, that last winter it was my ])leasure to return to the city of Ghent where it had OELEBKATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 27 been my ])riviloti;e and honor to serve this country for a period of five years and where I also had an opportunity a^ 1 « » ( .0' ^^ <\ • • • • ••J\ o ./ \ ^/^ ,<■ ' » ^^^V ,/^\ \J^.^' /'% '^^^