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CANADIAI^ BOUND Al^IES. 
 
 Committee on Foreign Affairs, 
 
 ,v ' HorsE OF Representatives, 
 
 January 21, 1908. 
 The subcommittee met at 1.^0 p. m., Hon. R. G. Cousins (chair- 
 man) presiding. 
 
 DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR APPROPRIATION BILL. 
 
 STATEMENT OF OTTO H. TITTMANN. 
 
 The Chairman. There was created in 1903, as I r'ecall, by virtue 
 of the treaty with Great Britain, a tribunal to determine, if possible, 
 the disputed boundary line between Alaska and Canada. We have 
 been appropriating ever since certain sums of money to carry out 
 their recommendations, or findings. 
 
 Mr. Tittmann. I think $240,000, all told. 
 
 The Chairman. In 1905 we expended $44,918; in 1906, $38,375; 
 and last year. $71,483. The committee would like to knoAv, in as 
 condensed a form as you are able to state, what has been accomplished 
 and how much yet remains to be done. 
 
 Mr. Tittmann. The tribunal to which you refer indicated the 
 mountains which in their judgment corresponded to the treaty. 
 That is only a very general definition. The Commissioners thought 
 it most important first to mark the boundary crossing in the rivers, 
 because those give access to the interior, and that is where questions 
 might arise. Certain regions of the boundary can not be monumented 
 at all, because of the perpetual ice and snow^ which cover the sum- 
 mits, but the points— that is, the mountains themselves — have been 
 carefully determined, trigonometrically, so that they now take the 
 place of artificial monuments and answer the purpose perfectly. 
 We have monumented boundary crossings of the Chilkoot River and 
 all of its affluents, and the White Pass, and the streams flowing into 
 the Skagway River. We have determined the mountain peaks, 
 trigonometrically, extending from the White Pass down Taku River, 
 and have marked the crossing of the Taku River and the crossing 
 of the Whiting River. There is a stretch of country which in the 
 finding of the tribunal is designated as the region between points 
 P and T, which has to be surveyed before the Commissioners can agi'ee 
 upon the particular mountain peaks. 
 
 The Chairman. What region would be indicated by points P and 
 T as to the distance or any other Avay you can describe it ? What dis- 
 tance would be covered? 
 
 Mr. Tittmann. It is a stretch of boundary extending from a point 
 VI miles north of the Taku River in a southeasterly direction for 120 
 
 20200— c B— 08 1 
 
2 CANADIAN BOUNDARIES. LI 
 
 miles; of this we have delimited about 50 miles, leaving 70 to be sur- 
 veyed. Then we have monumented the crossing of the Stikine River, 
 the crossing of the Unuk Eiver. and have established monuments at 
 the head of the Portland Canal. We have also determined the bound- 
 ary peaks in the St. Elias Mountain Range to the first peaks west- 
 ward of the Alsek River. 
 
 The work that remains to l)e done. then, between the one hundred 
 and forty-first meridian and the Portland Canal is the identification 
 and determination of certain peaks in the vicinity of Mount St. Elias, 
 the crossing of the Alsek, the determination and fixing of peaks be- 
 tween points P and T, which I have referred to, the crossing of the 
 headwaters of the Iskoot River, between the Stikine and the Unuk, 
 the crossing of the Chickamin, and the Le Due River, and finally it 
 is probable that the Commissioners will decide that monuments will 
 have to be placed at certain points on the Portland Canal, in order 
 to refer turning points in the water boundary to the permanent monu- 
 ments on the shore. 
 
 I think, Mr. Chairman, that we will probably complete our work 
 in three seasons in southeastern Alaska. The seasons are very short, 
 and the output in any one season may happen to be small, not due to 
 the lack of energy or enterprise on the part of the men, but due to 
 circumstances over which they have no control. 
 
 The Chairman. ^Miat distance wdll eventually be covered in the 
 entire boundary line between Alaska and Canada ? 
 
 Mr, TiTTMANN. Twelve hundred miles. 
 
 The Cpiairman. What i)ortioii has already been completed? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMAN. We have, up to last summer, been working entirely 
 on the southeastern portion. The treaty in regard to the one hundred 
 and forty-first meridian went into effect year before last, so that we 
 were working in southeastern Alaska all the time. We have just 
 begun on the one hundred and forty-first meridian. We have had one 
 season on that. The total distance is 1,200 miles, and in three more 
 seasons we will complete the 600 miles of southeastern Alaska, and the 
 600 miles on the one hundred and forty-first meridian I am unable to 
 say about, because we have only had one year's experience, and it is a 
 very, very difficult country. 
 
 The Chairman. What character of marks are you making? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. In southeastern Alaska, and we shall probably fol- 
 low the same scheme on the one hundred and forty-first meridian, we 
 have been putting in aluminum bronze monuments, small ones, set in 
 rock or cement, and about 30 inches high, except that at the White 
 Pass and at certain other important points Ave have put obelisks, also 
 made of aluminum bronze, about 5 feet high. 
 
 The Chairman. Will they be of a permanent nature? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. They will be permanent and will last forever. That 
 is what we are trying to do. We are basing our work upon the experi- 
 ence of the past and are trying to do it well. 
 
 The Chairman. Certain portions of the boundary line you have 
 indicated will be marked on the record by certain mountain peaks and 
 those records will last as long as the mountain peaks themselves? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Absolutely; yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. Is the Canadian government expending a like 
 amount of money for this work? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. About the same amount. 
 
CAXADTAX BOUXDARTES. 3 
 
 The Chairman. Of course the officers havmg this in charge are 
 not receiving- any extra compAsation for it? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMAXX. Xo. sir; they are not receiving any extra compen- 
 sation, and there is no new machinery required to administer work. 
 
 The Chairman. You get none? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMAxx. No. sir: I get none, nor the disbursing agent, and 
 there is no new machinery. That is why the work has been done so 
 cheaply. 
 
 The'CHAiRMAX. All these sums that were enumerated in my open- 
 ing question, as I understand, go to the labor that is necessary to 
 carry on the work? 
 
 Mr. TiTT.MAXx. Absolutely. 
 
 Mr. Laxdis. How much force have you? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMAxx. The force varies. I have been employing a num- 
 ber of men outside of this survey, because we have not men enough, 
 during the season, and laying them off Avhen the season is over. All 
 of our best men I have kept right through the season because I 
 needed them here, I needed them to finish up their work, but the 
 other men I discharge just as soon as tlie work is over. 
 
 And that brings me to a matter which I desire to put before your 
 counnittee. I Avrote a letter yesterday to the Secretary of State, 
 asking that my estimate be amended, and that the appropriation be 
 made STo.OOO. and made immediately available. My reason for that 
 is that I shall need about $50,000 to start the parties. AYe have to 
 provide a long time in advance. I started in with the estimates a 
 few days ago. as soon as I had an agreement with the British com- 
 missioner that he would send certain parties, and I agreed to send 
 certain parties, then we made our estimates, and I find that the mere 
 cost of putting mv parties in the field and providing them with sup- 
 plies will require "about $50,000. I have about $30,000 left to do this 
 with, and I therefore ask that the appropriation be made $75,000 and 
 immediately available. I suppose the letter has not reached you, 
 because I was not in shajDC to send it to the Secretary until yesterday 
 morning, but I thought it would reach you before you called me up. 
 May I present this copy of it to you? 
 
 The Chairman. You say you have $20,000 left from last year's 
 appropriation ? 
 
 Mr. Titt:maxx. For this year, but you see my year does not expire 
 until June. 
 
 The Chairman-. Then you do not mean to say you will have any- 
 thing left at the termination of the time of the appropriation ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. No, no; I mean I would be $-20,000 short unless you 
 make this appropriation immediately available. In other words, I 
 would not send the parties, but I need $50,000. and it is very close 
 shaving, gentlemen. 
 
 Mr. Landis. AYhat time do you expect to start your men up there? 
 
 Mr TiTTMANN. Some of the men to get in on the one hundred 
 and forty-first meridian will start in over the ice. They go over the 
 AMiite Pass and go doAvn in sleds. Those are the people Avho trace 
 the line. "\Yhat I want to do now is to have them haul provisions 
 from Fortymile Creek to the one hundred and forty-first meridian 
 over the ice and snow, because that is the cheapest way of getting 
 them there. 
 
4 CANADIAN BOUNDARIES. 
 
 The Chairman. How maiw men will go up there? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. I can not tell you exactly, but I suppose we will 
 have something like 35 men in there. 
 
 The Chairman. Have you employed at other times previous to 
 this as many as -3.3 men? 
 
 Mr. TiTT3iANN. Oh, yes. 
 
 The Chairman. The expenditure of these sums is always accounted 
 for by vouchers? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Oh, yes: and in the strictest way. 
 
 BOUNDARY LINE, THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA. 
 
 The Chairinian. It appears that we have been at the work of 
 marking the United States and (\inadian boundary for a number of 
 years. I note that we expended $30,500 in 1903, $65,388 in 1904, 
 $61,201 in 1905, $3,719 in 1906, and $21,930 in 1907. I would like to 
 know how much of the distance has been covered on that boundary 
 and what remains to be covered. 
 
 Mr. TiTTiiANN. The appropriation to which you refer related 
 mostly, possibly all, to the region west of the sunmiit of the Rocky 
 Mountains, between the summit of the Rocky Mountains and the 
 Pacific coast, and the appropriation was so Avorded that it Avould 
 be confined to that — not the present estimates, but the former appro- 
 priation. / 
 
 The United States really completed its part of the work, excepting 
 the final inspection, about tAvo years ago. The Canadians were a 
 little behind us. They, I think, finished last summer, and nothing 
 remains to be done on that stretch of country from the summit of 
 the Rocky Mountains to the Pacific Ocean except an inspection of a 
 part of the line and acceptance l)y the commissioners, and the making 
 of the maps — not the surveying, but the engraving of the maps — and 
 the report. AMiat we did there was to cut a line through the woods 
 for 400 miles. We monumented the whole line with aluminum bronze 
 monuments, set in deep bases of cement, very solidly set, and car- 
 ried on a triangulation so as to relate it properly to the surrounding 
 country which we have mapped. I think you will find what we 
 spent on that was about one-fourth of what the original commission 
 spent. I am speaking now only for the United States. In this case, 
 as in the Alaska boundary case, there was no administrative ma- 
 chinery to be created. We simply took it up as a surveying task; 
 there was no compensation for any of the commissioners. A com- 
 missioner when he travels gets his actual traveling expenses and that 
 is all. So that it has been very economically done, and very quickly 
 done, and I think permanently done. 
 
 The Chairman. Up to the base of the Rocky Mountains? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. From the summit of the Rocky Mountains to the 
 Pacific coast. 
 
 Mr. Landis. That is about lialfwav? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Xo; it is not even halfway. Then what remains is 
 about 1,220 miles of re-marking, from the summit of the Rocky 
 Mountains to Lake Superior. Then, skipping the water boundary 
 through the Great Lakes, which I suppose will have to be looked 
 after in a certain way, that is more as a matter of convention than 
 of monumenting. though monumenting will be required in the nar- 
 row passages, there remains practically the remonumenting of the 
 
CANADIAN BOUNDARIES. 5 
 
 international boundary of Maine, a distance of about 600 miles. That 
 is, you have about 1,800 miles in round numbers. 
 
 The Chairman. But you have already marked the northern boun- 
 dary of Vermont and New York. 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes; I am taking those out. I say besides that. 
 
 The Chairman. In addition to that you will still have 1,800 miles ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes, sir. 
 
 The Chairman. How long will that take? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. That depends on how large a force we are putting 
 in. * 
 
 The Chairinian. The way you are moving and tlie way you have 
 been moving for five years. 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Of course the United States does only about half of 
 it. I was speaking of it as though we were doing all of it. 
 
 The Chairman. Do you overlook each other's work, or do you 
 apportion it and then do your share? 
 
 Sir. Titt:mann. Each of us does our share, at least that is the way 
 we did it in the Rocky Mountains. We divided it up into equal 
 l>ortions as near as might bo, l)ut each party has representatives with 
 the other party. 
 
 • The Chairman. And you would accept each other's findings and 
 establishments ? 
 
 Mr. TiTT^iANN. Yes. we accept them: l)ut we really test them 
 always. 
 
 The Chairman. Yon do not mean to say that you resurvey it? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Oh, no. 
 
 The Chairman. Then you haA^e about 1,800 miles remaining, and 
 if you divide the work you Avould have 1)00 and they OOO to do? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes. sir. 
 
 The Chairman. How long will it take if you use the same means 
 and force that you have been using? 
 
 Mr. TiTT^iANN. I have figured a little on Avhat I thought would be 
 the cost of it, if that is what you would like to know. 
 
 The CHAiR:srAN. We would like to knoAv both about tlie cost and 
 how long. 
 
 Mr. Titt:mann. In answer I submit this estimate of tlie cost to the 
 United States, both as to the Alaska and the northern boundary. 
 
 Northern hoKudary. — Sunnnit of the Rocky Mountauis to the Lake 
 of the Woods, four years, 8()5 miles, cost $115,000; Lake of the Woods 
 to Lake Superior, two vears. 355 miles, cost $87,000; Vermont bound- 
 ary to Grand Manan Channel. 572 miles, cost $100,000. 
 
 Alaska bou/idari/. — (Jne hundred and forty-first meridian, 9 years, 
 660 miles, cost $406,000: southeast Alaska, three to four years, total 
 distance, exclusive of Portland Canal water boundary, about 600 
 miles. About 190 miles remain to be done, at an estimated cost of 
 $60,000. 
 
 Mr. Landis. Could you work advantageously with a proportion- 
 ately larger force if we will give you the money? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. No. I will tell you where I think the difficulty 
 really comes in. I think we can put in a larger force than the Cana- 
 dian commissioner. We have more trained men over here than they 
 have there, and they can use only trained men. 
 
 Mr. Landi!;. You are simply matching up against hi< work? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes: we let him match up against u- as near as 
 may be. 
 
6 CANADIA]:^ BOUNDARIES. 
 
 The Chairman. There has been inserted in the estimates an addi- 
 tional qualification. " includino- employment at the seat of Govern- 
 ment of such surveyors, computers, and draftsmen as are necessary 
 to reduce field notes." Haven't you been doing- that right along? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes; but we can only emploj^ people that come 
 have been in the field, and I do. That is perfectly proper. But now 
 that these surveys are getting along it is necessary to bring up the 
 oiRce work. I have really had in mind more especially the computers 
 and draftsmen. We are overloaded in the survey office, and need 
 trained computers and draftsmen. I would like to have authority 
 to do it. I would only employ them when I needed them. 
 
 The CiiAiKMAN. But 3'Ou have been employing here at the seat of 
 Government the people 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes: but we can only employ people that come 
 from the field. What I mean is, if I have a piece of computing to 
 do or a piece of drafting to do, which ought to employ all of the 
 draftsman's time, or the computer's time, I would like to have an 
 opportunity to do it. 
 
 The Chairman. Where are these field men while these additional 
 employees would be at work? 
 
 Mr. Titt:\iann. They might be in the office or the}" might be in 
 the field. They are all occuiDied, but there is a great deal more to 
 do than they can do. That is, the work is accumulating in my hands. 
 
 The Chairman. What is being done now in regard to these various 
 surveys ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. In regard to Canada? 
 
 The Chairman. Yes. 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. The only work to be done next season is to make 
 a final inspection of the Avestern part of the boundary west of the 
 summit of the Rocky Mountains. Then we will have a party out at 
 work on the Maine boundary, and those are the only parties that 
 I can provide for at present. 
 
 The Chairman. What is being done at this moment by any of the 
 force ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. There are no parties in the field now. Part of 
 them are in San Francisco working up their field notes. Some of 
 them are in Ithaca, one party is in Ottawa, and some of them are at 
 the office here. That is the distribution. To explain : For instance, in 
 Ithaca there is an instructor, jNIr. Leland. who was formerly an assist- 
 ant in the Coast Survey, whom I employ during the summer season 
 because the college has allowed him to go away, and his monthly pay 
 stops at the close of the season. The Alaska season is very short — ^he 
 has done most excellent work in Alaska. And that is one reason why 
 we have done the work so cheaply. 
 
 The Chairman. In other words, your force is not on a constant or 
 continuing pay roll ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. No. Some of them are emploj'ed continuously, but 
 not all of them. 
 
 The Chairman. How many men have you now on the pa}^ roll 
 engaged in this particular business of the boundaiy line between the 
 United States and Canada ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. There are eleven men. technical men, and receive 
 from $l'2r) to $150 a month. 
 
 The Chairman. Are thev under the civil service? 
 
CANADIAN BOUNDARIES. ' ( 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes. nearly all of them. The civil service expects 
 certain classes of men where the work is in Alaska or on the inter- 
 national boundary. That is, we are compelled to get them from the 
 civil service whenever we can, and we do. 
 
 The Chairjuan. Tnese eleven men you now have are on a permanent 
 pay roll ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTTHANN. Those men. I think, all are on the permanent pav 
 roll. 
 
 The Chairman. That is to say, all that you now have in the employ 
 working in this iDarticular service are on the permanent pay roll? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Yes; I pay them per annum salaries. 
 
 Mr. Landis. In this Avork are you subjected to many hardships? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Most assuredly. In southern Alaska, especially, 
 the work is in the snow and ice fields. The men have to cross glaciers. 
 They drop in ; they have to be roped in crossing those places, and I 
 am glad to say that no fatalities have occurred, but the men time and 
 time again have dropped into chasms and been pulled out. It is very 
 difficult Avork. 
 
 Mr. Landis. And very hazardous? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Very hazardous. 
 
 Mr. Landis. As to the torture that you are subjected to from mos- 
 quitoes ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTJiANN. I can speak feelingly about that. sir. because in 1903 
 I Avas on the Stikine River myself, and Avas nearly driven frantic by 
 them, because they are innneasurably numerous and persistent. You 
 have no rest night or day. You of course protect yourself Avith mos- 
 quito netting and mosquito bars as best you can. but there are 
 moments Avhen you can not, as, for instance, Avhen you get out at 5 
 o'clock in the morning to Avash doAvn, they Avill light on you, and be- 
 fore you can destroy them by rubbing them in the soap and Avater, 
 they torture you. A^^ien you coA^er your face Avith mosquito netting 
 and put your eyes to the instrument they Avill find the lid of the eye 
 Avhile A'ou are looking into the instrument, and toAvard cAening you 
 Avill find your ears and eyelids covered Avith blood dots, and your 
 Avrists in the course of a fcAV weeks become so sore you are kept con- 
 tinually on edge. It Avas torture. I don't like to speak of mosquitoes 
 that Avay, but it is no exaggeration. 
 
 I Avill say more in regard to the difficulties and the expenses. The 
 British commissioner asked for tenders for taking some provisions 
 to the head of the \^liite River, Avhere Ave hoped to get last season. 
 The only tender he got Avas one for 68 cents a pound freight. Noav. 
 think of buying a can of beans for 25 cents and paying 08 cents a 
 pound freight on it to get it there. And I don't think that Avas an 
 unreasonable price. But he did not accept the tender, but Avhat he 
 did do Avas to buy horses and take them in. and that is expensiA'e. 
 because you lose your liorses. You can take them in. but you can not 
 take them out. 
 
 The Chairman. Why can't you take them out ? 
 
 Mr. TiTTMANN. Because it Avould cost more than to buy ncAV ones 
 and take them in. And at the end of the season they are not fit, be- 
 cause you can nut carry feed for them and they have to each such grass 
 as you get there, and at the end of the season's Avork the only thing 
 you can do is to shoot them. 
 
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