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 A FREE EUROPE 
 
 BEINQ AN INTERVIEW WITH 
 
 The Rt. Hon. 
 SIR EDWARD GREY, Bart., K.G. 
 
 British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs 
 
 BY 
 
 EDWARD PRICE BELL 
 
 •/ the "Cblcmgo Dmily NtwM.*' 
 
 T. FISHER UN WIN, Ltd., 
 
 I, ADELPHl TERRACE, LONDON. 
 1916. 
 
 riinled iu Gremi BrUain. 
 

■^ Interview with Sir Edward Grey. 
 
 The Rt. Hon. Sir Edward Grey, K.G., M.P., 
 British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, 
 talking with Mr. Edward Price Bell, of the 
 Chicago Daily Neivs, at luncheon in the States- 
 man's temporary London home, on Monday, 
 April 10, said substantially this : — 
 
 " Prussian tyranny over Western Europe, 
 including these islands, our people will not 
 stand. The pledges given by Mr. Asquith as 
 regards the restoration of Belgium and Serbia 
 shall be kept. We have signed a pact to make 
 peace only in concert with our Allies ; this 
 pact, I need not say, we shall honour, strictly, 
 and to the end. What we and our Allies are 
 fighting for is a free Europe. We want a 
 Europe free, not only from the domination of 
 one nationality by another, but from hectoring 
 diplomacy and thfe peril of war, free from the 
 constant rattling of the sword in the scabbard 
 from perpetual talk of shining armour and war- 
 lords. In fact," added Sir Edward refiectivel}^, 
 '* we feel we are fighting for equal rights ; for 
 law, justice, peace; for civilization, throughout 
 the world, as against brute force which knows 
 no restraint and no mercy." 
 
 (B4o9) 
 
To interview Sir Edward Grey, one need 
 hardly say, is a unique privilege and honour. 
 These came to myself after many months of 
 battling with the immemorial prejudice of the 
 British public man of high responsibility against 
 the journalist as a journalist. It is a fact, 
 I believe, that Sir Edward Grey — one of the 
 greatest figures of the world war, and one of 
 the most famous men in modern political 
 history — never was interviewed, in the journal- 
 istic sense, before. It is also true, I think, that 
 in the long annals of the British Foreign Office 
 this is the first instance in which its Chief has 
 consented to speak to his fellow-men through 
 the mediumship of a correspondent. 
 
 What is the most amazing fact about this 
 man ? 
 
 To my mind, it is that the Germans regard 
 him as the Mephistopheles of the " Faust " of 
 Armageddon — scoffing, sardonic, crafty, fiendish. 
 One of their appellations for him is "Satan." 
 They feign to believe — possibly do believe — 
 that his main object in life has been to brew 
 trouble, to bring about war, especially to effect 
 the strangulation, or asphyxiation, of Germany. 
 This of a man of the most civilised type, broad 
 of vision, nurtured in Liberalism, a fly fisherman, 
 a tamer of birds and squirrels, a life-long pro- 
 tagonist of peace I 
 
 tn 
 
'' What do you mean by the phrase, ' destruc- 
 tion of Prussian miHtarism ' ? " I asked Sir 
 Edward. 
 
 THE PRUSSIAN IDEAL. 
 
 " What Prussia proposes, as we understand 
 her, is Prussian supremacy. She proposes a 
 Europe modelled and ruled by Prussians. She 
 is to dispose of the liberties of her neighbours, 
 and of us all. We say that life on these terms 
 is intolerable. And this also is what France 
 and Italy and Russia say. We are not only 
 fighting Prussia's attempt to do, in this instance, 
 to all of Europe what she did to non-Prussian 
 Germany, but fighting the German idea of the 
 wholesomeness, almost the desirability, of ever-: 
 recurrent war. Prussia under Bismarck deliber- 
 ately and admittedly made three wars. We 
 wanted a settled peace in Europe and throughout 
 the world, which will be a guarantee against 
 aggressive war. 
 
 *' Germany's philosophy is that a settled 
 peace spells disintegration, degeneracy, the 
 sacrifice of the heroic qualities in human 
 character. Such a philosophy, if it is to survive 
 as a practical force, means eternal apprehension 
 and unrest. It means ever-increasing arma- 
 ments. It means arresting the development of 
 mankind along the lines of culture and humanity. 
 
THE BRITISH IDEAL. 
 
 *' We are fighting tliis idea. We do not believe 
 in war as the preferable method of settling 
 ^ disputes between nations. When nations cannot 
 sec eye to eye, when they quarrel, when there 
 is a threat of war, avc believe the controversy 
 sliould be settled by methods other than those 
 of war. Such other methods are always success- 
 ful when there is goodwill and no aggressive 
 spirit. 
 
 " We believe in negotiation. We have faith 
 in international conferences. We proposed a 
 conference before this war broke out. We urged 
 Germany to agree to a conference. Germany 
 declined to do so. Then I requested Germany 
 to select some form of mediation, some method 
 of peaceful settlement, of her own. She would 
 not come forward with any such suggestion. 
 Then the Emperor of Russia proposed to 
 Germany to send the dispute to the Hague 
 Tribunal. There was no response. Our pro- 
 posal of a conference was rejected by Germany : 
 Russia, France and Italy all accepted it. Our 
 proposal that Germany suggest some means of 
 peaceful settlement met with no success, nor 
 did the Czar's proposal of arbitration. No 
 impartial judgment of any kind was to be 
 permitted to enter. It was a case of Europe 
 submitting to the Texxtonio will, or going to war. 
 
" If the Conference in London in the Balkan 
 crisis in 1912-13 had been worked to the dis- 
 advantage of Germany or her alhes, the German 
 reluctance for a conference in 1914 would have 
 been intelligible, but no more convincing pledge 
 of fair play and single-minded desire for fair 
 settlement than the conduct of that Conference 
 in London was ever given. And in 1914, after 
 Serbia had accepted nine-tenths of Austria's 
 demands, the settlement of outstandi^ ques- 
 tions would have been easy. Russia ordered 
 no general mobilization till Germany had refused 
 a conference and till German preparations for 
 war were far ahead of the Russians. Germany 
 declared war on Russia when Austria was 
 showing every disposition to come to terms ; 
 and Germany was in fact at war with Russia 
 four or five days before Austria, though the 
 quarrel at that time was one that primarily 
 concerned Austria and not Germany." 
 
 THE TWO METHODS. 
 
 After a moment's reflection, Sir Edward 
 continued : 
 
 " These two methods of settling international 
 disputes — ^the method of negotiation and the 
 method of war — I ask you to consider in the 
 light of this struggle. Do we not see the disaster 
 of the war method conclusively shown ? How 
 much better would have been a conference, 
 
6 
 
 or The Hague, in 1914, than what has happened 
 since ! Industry and commerce dislocated ; the 
 burdens of life heavily increased ; millions of 
 men slain, maimed, blinded ; international 
 hatreds deepened and intensified ; the very 
 fabric of civilization menaced — these from the 
 war method. The conference we proposed, or 
 The Hague proposed by the Czar, would have 
 settled the quarrel in a little time — I think a 
 conference would have settled it in a week — and 
 all these calamities would have been averted. 
 Moreover — a thing of vast importance — we 
 should have gone a long way in laying the 
 permanent foundations for international peace." 
 
 NEUTRALS AND PEACE. 
 
 "Do you think neutrals ever will be able to 
 help towards peace?" I inquired. 
 
 " The injustice done by this war has got to 
 be set right. The Allies can tolerate no peace 
 that leaves the wrongs of this war unredressed. 
 When persons come to me with pacific counsels, 
 I think they should tell me what sort of peace 
 they have in mind. They should let me know 
 on which side they stand, for the opponents 
 do not agree. If they think, for example, that 
 Belgium was innocent of offence ; that she has 
 been unspeakably wronged ; that she should 
 be set up again by those who tore her down. 
 
then, it seems to me, they should say so. Peace 
 counsels that are purely abstract and make no 
 attempt to discriminate between the rights and 
 the wrongs of this war are ineffective, if not 
 irrelevant." 
 
 " ' Desire for conquest, lust for revenge, and 
 jealousy of the economic competitor in the world 
 market,' " I reminded Sir Edward, " were 
 suggested by Herr von Bethmann-HoUweg as 
 ' the three driving forces of the coalition against 
 Germany before the war.' " 
 
 " There was no coalition against Germany 
 before the war," answered Sir Edward. " Ger- 
 many knew there was no coalition against her. 
 We had assured her, in the most formal and 
 categorical way, that in no circumstances would, 
 we be a party to any aggression against her. 
 She wanted us to pledge ourselves to uncondi- 
 tional neutrality — wanted us to declare that 
 no matter what she did on the Continent Ave 
 should not interfere. It is true that she always 
 referred to a possible war forced on her. The 
 trouble was that she gave us no test of a war 
 forced on her. She remained free to claim 
 that any war was forced on her. She now 
 claims that this war was forced on her. I 
 need hardly remind you that at the outset 
 Italy, the third member of the Triple Alliance, 
 definitely refused to accept this view. No one 
 
8 
 
 thought of attacking Germany ; there was not 
 a measure taken by any other power that was 
 not purely defensive ; the German preparations 
 were for attack and were far ahead of others 
 on the Continent." 
 
 BELGIUM A BULWARK. 
 
 " You observed the German Chancellor's 
 recent reference to Belgium as a ' bulwark ' ? " 
 " Belgium was a bulwark — defensive of 
 Germany, of France, and of European peace. 
 This bulwark, until Germany decided to make 
 war, was in no danger from any quarter. In 
 April, 1 91 3, we had given renewed assurance 
 to Belgium to respect her neutrality. When war 
 threatened, we asked France if she would 
 adhere to her pledge to respect the neutrality 
 of Belgium. She said ' Yes.' We asked 
 Germany the same question, and she declined 
 to answer. Immediately afterwards, in scorn 
 of her signature, she assaulted and destroyed 
 the bulwark. Herr von Bethmann-Hollweg 
 acknowledged the wrong, pleading that 
 ' necessity knows' no law,' and promised that 
 as soon as Germany's military aims were realised 
 she would restore Belgium. Now he says there 
 can be no status quo ante, either in the East or 
 in the West. In other words, Belgium's in- 
 dependence is gone, as Serbia's and Montenegro's 
 are gone, unless the Allies can set them up again. 
 
9 
 
 *' To all this we say to Germany, ' Recognise 
 the principle urged by lovers of freedom every- 
 where : give to the nationalities of Europe a 
 real freedom, not the so-called freedom doled 
 out to subject peoples by Prussian tyranny, 
 and make reparation as far as it can be made for 
 the wrong done.' " 
 
 BRITISH AIMS. 
 
 " Should you mind indicating the object of 
 Britain's rapprochements in recent years ? " 
 I asked. 
 
 " Good relations and an end to quarrels with 
 other powers. Going far back, we had working 
 relations with the Triple Alliance. But we 
 were habitually in friction with France or Russia. 
 Again and again it brought us to the verge of 
 war. So we decided to come to an arrangement 
 with France, and then with Russia — not with 
 any hostile intent towards Germany, or any 
 other power, but wholly to pave the way to 
 permanent peace. So, instead of preparing 
 for war, as Germany asserts, without a vestige 
 of truth to support the assertion, we were en- 
 deavouring to avoid war. And German states- 
 men knew we were endeavouring to avoid war 
 and not to make it." 
 
 " German statesmen assert that England is 
 the only real obstacle to peace." 
 
10 
 
 " Nobody wants peace more than we want it. 
 But we want a peace that does justice, and a 
 peace that re-estabhshes respect for the pubHc 
 law of the world. Presumably Germany would 
 like neutrals to think we are applying pressure 
 to keep France, Russia and Italy in the war. 
 We are not. France, Russia and Italy need no 
 urging to keep them in the war. They know 
 why they are in the war. They know they are 
 in it to preserve everything that is precious to 
 nationality. It is this knowledge which makes 
 them determined and unconquerable. It is 
 quite impossible for me to express to you 
 our admiration of the achievements of our 
 associates in this struggle. And as is the 
 measure of our admiration, so also will be 
 the measure of our contribution to the common 
 cause. 
 
 " There are two statements that come from 
 German sources. One is that we are preventing 
 the Allies from making peace — that goes to the 
 address of neutrals. The other is that we are 
 meditating separate peace with Germany and 
 intend to abandon our Allies — ^that goes to the 
 address of one or other of the Allies. Each 
 statement is absolutely untrue." 
 
 " You have noted that Herr von Bethmann- 
 Hollweg affirms that Britain wants to destroy 
 ' united and free Germany.' " 
 
11 
 
 " We never were smitten with any such 
 madness. We want nothing of the sort, and 
 Herr von Bethmann-Hollweg knows we want 
 nothing of the sort. We should be glad to see 
 the German people free, as we ourselves want 
 to be free, and as we want the other nationalities 
 of Europe and of the world to be free. It 
 belongs to the rudiments of political science, it 
 is abundantly taught by history, that you cannot 
 enslave a people, and make a success of the 
 job — that you cannot kill a people's soul by 
 foreign despotism and brutality. We aspire 
 to embark upon no such course of folly and 
 futility towards another nation. We believe 
 that the German people — when once the dreams 
 of world-empire, cherished by pan-Germanism 
 are brought to nought — will insist upon the 
 control of its government ; and in this lies the 
 hope of secure freedom and national in- 
 dependence in Europe. For a German 
 democracy will not plot and plan wars, as 
 Prussian militarism plotted wars, to take place 
 at a chosen date in the future." 
 
 In the midst of war. Sir Edward Grey's great 
 vision remains a vision of peace — not a wobbly 
 peace, not a peace vulnerable to political and 
 militarist intrigue and ambition, but a peace 
 secured by the unified and armed purpose of 
 civilization. Long before this war, Sir Edward 
 
12 
 
 hoped for a league of nations that would be 
 united, quick and instant, to prevent, and, if 
 need be, to punish violation of international 
 treaties, of public right, of national independence, 
 and would say to nations that come forward 
 with grievances and claims, " Put them before 
 an impartial tribunal. Subject your claims to 
 the test of law or the judgment of impartial 
 men. If you can win at this bar, you will get 
 what you want ; if you cannot, you shall not 
 have what you want ; and, if you attempt to 
 start a war, we all shall adjudge you the common 
 enemy of humanity, and treat you accordingly. 
 As footpads, safe-breakers, burglars, and in- 
 cendiaries are suppressed in nations, so those 
 who would commit these crimes, and in- 
 calculably more than these crimes, will be 
 suppressed among nations." 
 
 LESSON OF THE WAR. 
 
 " Unless mankind learns from this war to 
 avoid war," said Sir Edward, in conclusion, 
 " the struggle will have been in vain. Further- 
 more, it seems to me that over humanity will 
 loom the menace of destruction. The Germans I 
 have thrown the door wide open to every form 
 of attack upon human life. The use of poisonous 
 fumes, or something akin to them in war, was 
 recommended to our naval or military authorities 
 
13 
 
 many years ago, and was rejected by them as 
 too horrible for civilized peoples to use. The 
 Germans have come with floating mines in 
 the open seas, threatening belligerents and 
 neutrals equally ; they have come with the 
 iiidiscriminating, murderous Zeppelin, which 
 does military damage only by accident ; they 
 have come with the submarine, which destroys 
 neutral and belligerent ships and crews in scorn 
 alike of law and of mercy ; they have come upon 
 blameless nations with invasion and incendiarism 
 and confiscation ; they have come with 
 poisonous gases and liquid fire. All their 
 scientific genius has been dedicated to wiping 
 out human life. They have forced these things 
 into general use in war. If the world cannot 
 organise against war, if war must go on, then 
 nations can protect themselves henceforth only 
 by using whatever destructive agencies they can 
 invent, till the resources and inventions of 
 science end by destroying the humanity 
 that they were meant to serve. The Germans 
 assert that their culture is so extraordinarily 
 superior that it gives them a normal right 
 'to impose it upon the rest of the world 
 by force. Will the outstanding contribution 
 of Kultur disclosed in this war be such 
 efficiency in slaughter as to lead to wholesale 
 extermination ? 
 
14 
 
 " The Prussian authorities have apparently 
 but one idea of peace, an iron peace imposed on 
 other nations by German supremacy. They do 
 not understand that free men and free nations 
 will rather die than submit to that ambition, 
 and that there can be no end to war till it is 
 defeated and renounced." 
 
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