JA tat? master? e^Sfil I ^ •3r J *8 CD K *>■* 3 s * CT3 *Sb * S • ^ ** o *** s 3 Q_ ^ B Q o *S « *-i^ •2 -^ 1? +"* fc ^ 3 ^ \** ~o o O ^ % ^ * >cB AMHBHP APOLOGY FOR tA^on-Qonformifts j with Modeft and Serious REFLECTIONS ON THE FTilENDLT DEBATE, % And the CONTINUATION # Therecff. By a Lover of Truth and Peace. . IBenj.3aocWr X Cor.4. 1 3 . 2fc/#g defamed, we intreat. 2Cor.6.8. As Peceiversy and yet true. ' m Pxintfd in the Year 1 6 6 ?, ' vV To the -Readers. TAe Author of the Friendly Debate having fmitten us on the face, both on the righc cheek and on the left ; left our detp ii- lence be brought in evidence to pro- claim ourguiltinefs, and fo having loft our Li- vings, we (hould lofe our good Names alfo ? which ought to be dearer to us -than our very Xtves, Ic may fecm high time to Apologize for ourfclyes, and to make it appear to the World., that we are not fo black and ugly as we are paint- ed, nor fo bad as we ace reprefented.- Our Apology (hall be that of theblclTed Apoftle St. P vvc could not have eafiiy failed of abundantly requiting the Author of them with Stories and Recrimina- tions. Were all the Irregularities and Impieties of Men of our own Coat, though Canonical, rec- koned up, and (hould we give our felves leave to look back thirty or forty years for matter of Agcufation, (as the Author of ihcfnV^// I>e % A 3 mi To the Redden.- bate fometimes doth) we might fill whole Vo- lumes with Errata* $) and might occafion the common Enemy of out Religion, to triumph aver, and the common People to trample upon the English Mmftry. Had the Author we deal withal, had like Charity with Conftantint the Great, or with King Charles the Fir(i> of bleffed memory ; he would rather have buried in filence the faults of the Mimftry, than to have expofed them, whether real or imaginary* to the Eye of the World, to be beheld through a Multiplying and a Magnifying- glafs, as he doth- Yea, had he pot come faoitof Mr.#iu7*,the Centurift,in his Charity, he might have learnt of him not to have publifhed a Second Part to blaze abroad the faults of his Brethren ; there being now no War to inflame him, no Adversary by any Reply to pro- voke him : The Ifyn- conformists now outed, be- ing down on the ground, down in the mire, (and Jet perhaps neither fo dirty, or fo much fullyed, its were fome formerly Scqucfired, there being neither Scandal, nor Inefficiency, fo much as charged upon one of a thoufand, as any Reafon or Caufe of their Ejectment.) Had he ufed the like Candour towards the Non-c 'onj "or •mlfis that Dr. ijiio'ulin doth towards the Romanics ; and Which I believe be expels from us towards his own Party ; he would never have charged the faults and errors of *p*rt upon the whole, of t few upon ally a very few excepted $ and fo doing, he I To the Readers* be might have fpared wholly his Continuation, and have much abridged his fifft Dialogue, He needed not to have made fo many blazes as he doth, by fo often firing men of ftraw of his own making} nor fo great anoife in the world, by difchargirig fo many great Guns, againft Cafties in the Ait of his own building* Bat fincc he advanceth Reafon fo much in word,upon all occafion, we may wonder he hath made no more real ufe of it in his Difcoinie. For fay we might ( and thick we can juftifis it) that his Words are more than his Matter* his Rhetorick far beyond his Logick ; and therefore we choofe rather that he fliould finite us with bis Fift 5 than with the Palms of his Hands; I mcaa with his Logick, rather than with his Rhetoxick. What Reafon or Logick is in fuch a Difeourfe as this ? Mr. T. W. and Mr. W. B. have Printed fuch and fuch things, therefore all, or almoft all the N^n-conformitis are fo and fo ; or Preach and Piint thus and thus ; or elfc Mr. Leves Hughes, Mr. r#Vwrj,the two Mr. Bridges, fay or write thus ; Ergo, this is the Way> the Spirit, and the Language of the whole Party. Or one or two in a Kingdom, or in the three Kingdoms, and that too, when the Kingdoms were all in a flsrr.e witb the Civil War, were, hot and fiery, &u Etgo (now notwithftanding that there has been nine years prace, an A& of Indempnity and Obli- vion palled, the generality of men formerly di- h 4 vided, ... . To, the Readers'. yided, qu.et and quietly difpofed, uniting, ce I Whole ( a few Clergy-men excepted) all that were fomet.me, of the ene Side * Qtp > ;* »» be looked upon a, Hotfpurs, Incendiaries S dangerous Perlon,, Enemies to AutholS ftTl 7 ^. mufthave the skin, of wild B arts pu p! on them, and a hideous noife and out-c.y made »ft« them, on puipofc to ft., up the People to hunt them down, or worry them • or e,K Nets and Toyles to take them : Would it not Si b r J' Tt ia , ti0Dal " d a»«K». more logtcal and Theological , f or the Author to ..^ Bt.C***t t and many other, now Jiving, though NoH-conformlas, are"™/m. good Chriftians, good SuUf good fiacnS' good Wr„e,, ; therefore we n^ft no tK r our Brethren Inconformifts, forthe failing or m.fcarriage, of » few ? Q r ai-bt n o?,Rn thor of the DeUeM he had plelfed ; haVe a ,t cdmuch better and ftronger, tbu, M %°7 Mr. M, Mr. //* M V.fii 2* gw#i and many other, of ,he old NoneoZ' |^, were meek and moderate, feriou, aX." fc* zealous agamft Separation; therefore it *tff to bs turbulent, mover, of Sedition in the State ? To the headers. State, or makers of Rents and Schifms inthe Church ? Or thus : Mr. Love and Mr. Gibbons laid down their Lives for their Loyalty., and Mr. Camon wis indi&ed of High-Treafon for pray 1 ing for his Majefty that now is : The London and Country Minifters declared zealoofly againft all proceedings againft the Crown and Life of King Charles the Fiift, of Blcffed Memory: Mr. Vines* Dr. Sp*rftm t Mx. Youngs loft their Mafterfhips at Cambridge^ and others their places elfewhcre, for refuting the Engagement. The Cheshire and Lancashire Minifters published a Book in Print a- gainft the Engagement , fided with Sir George Booth in his Undertaking for his Majefty. The Presbyterians generally throughout the Kingdom were cordial and zealous for his Majefties Juft and Royal Title: Therefore they are good men, and good Subjects to his Majeft?, Or if you will, thus : The Presbyterians and other Noncon- formifis have really loft their Livings, pretend- ing to keep their Confcicnces, have been and ftill arc generally either actively or pa (lively obe- dient to the Laws 5 pray for, and feck the peace and happinefs of the King and his Kingdoms ^ have in patience pofTcfled their Souls above fe- ven years together, and all this while have fcf- Kjporn, even in their private Meetings, all exafpe- I fating and provoking Language, or publickly in print, fcurrilous Pamphlets 01 Libels againft the government, And haye not (as the Author of the *to the Readers. the Debate hath) endeavonr'd to prejudice a great part of his tMajefiies Sttbjefts, by many Reproa- ches and Terms of diftin&ion, contrary to his Mtjefces Royal Declaration, ordaining, That all Notes of Difcord, Separation, and difference of Parties* be utterly abolifbed among his Sub^etls : Therefore Presbyterians and oth^r Nonconform tniftsy are men of Peace, Religion and Loy- alty. Forafmuch then as the Author of the Debate hath endeavoured with his Sparks of Wit and Fire, to inflame light-headed and hot-headed Perfons, (if it be poiTible) to make a combuftion, contrary to the Law of the Land, the Peace of out Sovcraign Lord the King, and the great Law of Love and Peace, the Aft of Oblivion ; I would tdvife him to do Jufticc upon fumfelf, in executing his own Books in the Flames, for be- ing Incendiaries. The worft I wi(h .him is his Reformation ; that for the time to come, he may be more charitable and good-natur'd ; or more Sanguine than now he is, and lefs Sanguinary than thefe his Books fpeak him to be. Next to our defires to cure our Adverfary, I hope we may have leave to go about to heal our felves; and this I (hall endeavour to do, by pul- ling out the Weapons that have made the wound, and by imitating the pra&ife of the Sympathcti- cal Do&ors, namely, by applying fome Sove- raign Balfanb or Hcaling-Piailicrs, to his two Wea- To the Readers. Weapons, his Sword and Dagger, or his Sword and Rapier , ( call his two Books which you pleafe) if by any means I may heal the wounds Which they have made. And though perhaps fome others would never have fciupled to have anfwered thefe Piece?, Railcry with Railery 5 or even Railing with Ratl- ing, and to have thrown that Dirt in his Face which he put into our hands ; and to have la- boured to quench his Wild-fire, though with dirty and itmking Billings- gate Kennel- Water : Yet this hath not been my ddign, but rather the contrary, to overcome him with good ufage and good words ; and becaufe I cannot give him as good Language as he brings, therefore to ftudy to give him better ; however nothing fo bad ; to life hardReafons, and foft Words ; and herein to follow the Reverend and Judicious Hooker y rather than tjttartin tjtfat- Prelate. As for the way and method I take in aiTaulting his two ftrong Holds or Forts, (which fome think impregnable) namely, why I do not charge in a right Lioe> and rufh directly upon the Pikes> the7S(o// me danger V 's of the Books; my anfwer is that of the Duke of Parma, upon occafion, / know very well what is fit for me to do, for the at- taining my Ends -, and am not come fo far, to take comfel of my Enemy. Or as another Prince (aid, / will not take a burning Coal out of the fire with my bare Finger s, when I can do it better with a pair of Toxgt. To the Readers. Tongs. I add further, Ic doth not necefiarily argue the want of a good Caufe, or a good Cou- rage, to come on the Flank orRecr of an Ene- my as well as on the Front ; or ro fcem fome- times to give Ground and Wheel-about, with a defign to charge with the more advantage. I ftiall not detain you much longer, Good Reader, in the Porch, being fenfible of being fo long already : May I crave your leave to make a brief Declaration, a fhort Petition, and to enter a reafonable Proteftation. I Declare, I do hold the Elders that Preach well, or Rale well , or Live well, by what names or titles foever dignified or diftinguiili- ed, whether they be Archbifhops, Biftiops, Pa- yors or Curates ; whether they be Conformifis or Nonconformifts, to be worthy of double ho- nour. And that I had much rather we could meet each other half-way, to reconcile our Dif- ferences, and to give each other the right hand of Fcllowihip, than to try it out for Victory by thefe Pen and Paper Combatcs any longer ; left Atbeifm and Popery be advantaged byourdif- fentionsj and enter in at our breaches. I would not have Minifters of either perfwahon, be like the filly Coneys that continually fight and tear one another, without ever joyning to make re- finance againrt the Polcat. 1 declare alfo, I do not, in, or by this Treatife> condemn Confor- wfis, or commend Non-conformlfis as fuch ; yet I To' the Reader f I cannot but own my utter diflike of the Prin- ciples and Pia&ifes of fomc high Conformijis of Hettors foi Conformity ; namely, fucb as prefer the Romifti Church, before the Reformed Tranf- mirine Churches ; Armlnliu before Sr. Auftine ; who judge Aetiw a greater Heretick than Ar- rifu ; who have more charity for thofe that de* ny the Deity of our Saviour, than for thofe that fcruple the iku&]tisAiviwm of Epifcopacy ; and who can with morePatieDce hear a Difputea- gainft the very Being of a D^ity, than about the taking away of a Ceremony ; that profefs themfclves the chiefeft Sons of the Church oi England, and yet diiTent from ber Do£trine con- tained in the Articles, Homilies, and Liturgie; and tranfgrcfs the Laws of the Church about Rites and Ceremonies, by going too far on the light hand, or running too far before them, and become Non-cenformifts themfelves, and break- ers of the Act of Uniformity, even by their extream Conformity. Thefe, thefe are the HcttorS) I mean, who when they have perfwad- ed a man to ftrain hard to go a mile with them in Conformity, will compel him to go tvvaine ; that are implacable Enemies to Non. conform* fts y though peaceable and Pious ; and are no good Friends to Conformifts, except under the tame degree of Longitude and Latitude with them- felves : Yea, I may fay, that notwithftandlng thcii pretended zeal ard devotion to the Hier- archy, To the Readers. archy, look on former Archbifhops, fuch is Grindal, Whit gift, Abbots as Puritans, and would ( if they could) Unbiihop fomeor theprefent Bifaops for Presbyterians, As for the Author of the Friendly Debate, I hope better things of him ; and though he be a Champion for the Conformifts caufe, and I differ from him in many things ; yet I muft confefs I do not look on him as one of the Heclors before defaibed ; but I fay of him rather, Tali* qiwm fit utinam nojler ejjet ; For I am confident, that one of his parts, learning and ftile, could eaftly make a Dialogue, wherein the high Con- formist fhould appear as fimple and ridiculous as ne hath made the ~Njn-conformifts. My Petition, my humble and hearty Petition is to the Fathers of the Churchy the moft Reve- rend the Arch bi ("hops, and the Right reverend the Bifhops, and to the Sons of the Church, our Conforming Brethren, That they would mani- feft their love to Peace, by their condefecnti- ens and defires of Union, with their diffenting Brethren ; and that there might be, by the means of the (jovernoars of our Church* their Mediation with His Majefty and the Parlia- ment fome fuch Laws made? as might for ever takeaway the differences 'twixt them and thofc that are for Moderation, that ftiJl hold tbem- felvcs Members of the Church of England, though nor admitted to be Teachers in it ; And Oh! 'O To the Readers* Oh ! that it were in their hearts, as many of them as hold Communion with the Reformed Churches beyond Seas, to offer fuch Bill or Bills ro King and Parliament, as might enable the Bi- (hops to receive all again into the Bofom of the Church, and to the Exercife of their Minlftry, who beftdes taking the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy to his Maje/ly> can conform to what is necciTary in other Reformed Churches. And my earneft deiire to all Nonconformlfls is, That they love and follow the Truth and Peace ; that they endeavour after Union and Coalition ; however that they avoid Schifm and Separation, truly fo called : And efpecially that they keep far from that dividing Principle, To Imagine a thing of it felf indifferent, to be therefore unlaw- fitly btcaufe commanded by a lawful Authority ; and alio from that grand Crime of the Donatlfts, that unchurched all befides tbcrnfelves. My Protection is this, That whereas the Author of the Debatehtth offered us Nonconform mifis many and great Affronts, hath made fo ma- ny hard and defperate Tbrufts or "Pafles at us, and hath thereby forced us at laft to Draw in our own Defence 5 That if he (hall prefently caufe our Perfons or Weapons to be arretted or feized t hereforc, He may never more" be proclaimed foi a Couragious Champion, nor the Nonconformlfls pofted for bafc Cowards. If the High Sons of the Church hive th: Li- bcrty To the Tleaiefs: berry and P'riviledgc to throw Ink iri our Faces ? the Sons of Adam> the Sons of Peace, and his Majefties good Subject j, may have we hope a Toleration or Connivence to wipe it off. Thefe things premifed ; Since the Author of the Dtbate hath fo vehemently charged us, and put in a Firft and a Second Indi&ment agtinft us, for Irrcligion , Diftoyalty, Schifm, Sacri- ledge, &c. We plead, NOT GUILTYj And put our feives upon the Tryal of our Coun* trey, which be You* TUB The Contents. Page. EVtry tranfgrejfion of humane Law y not deadly , Nonconformifts better treated in former times^ Nonconformifts not Schifmatickj or Sectaries, p. 10,11,12. Ordinations £; Presbyters^ formerly counted va- lid by our Bifhops, p. 1 2 ; 1 3 , 1 4. The Affembly men cleared from countenancing fa. crilege^ p. 1 j , 1 6 . Nonconformifts cjfJrr f clear themfelves by Oath from Peevi/hnefs and Obftinacy. p. 1 7 . ■Nonconformifts »*f /*£* Pharifees, p. 1 7. Hon? Conformifts and Nonconformifts my be Reconciled^ 0.18. 19. What Reformation was defired formerly by the Houfe of Commons, in the 30th Tear of Queen Eliz. p.21,22. Nonconformifts not fo rigid towards D-Jfenters as . is pretended j p.22,23. Nonconformifts Obedient to His Majesty. De- clared against the late horrid Uviurder of His late UMajesly, p.26 27. * . Hon- The Content*. Non-conformifts do not deprive his MajeHy in Ecclejiafiical Caufes, p.3^117, * ***• Of Confoimifts and Non-confoimiits Charity t Piesbyteiians no Changelings, P*3 7 « Nonconformifts ufe the Lords Prayer, P«3^« Why fome fcruple fome old Words? at Altar, Prielt, &c. ; p.4 x »4 2 - 0/ keeping Hcly-dayes, p.43,44* Of the Surplice, p.4.6,47,48* Confoimifts ii/j^r amongft themfelves in many things? p.4P>5°. Of fraying that we may Preach in the evidence and demonfiration of the Spirit , p. 5 3 > 5 4- Of Praying by the Spirit , P'ff*?^ P/ conceived Prayer } and Prayer by a Book,? p>59. Of Afternoon- Sermons , p.tf2,. Pf C& Uc l°ifing<> p. 64. Of Jwr/ *« 69. O/" Conventicles, p.61. Of Experimental ^Preaching, . p.70,71. Nonconfoitnifts Pr^£& Obedience to Magiftrates, And to the Moral Law, p. 7 5 , 7 7 \ 7 8 . ■£«»* Conformii'ts Dijfent from the Dotlrine of the Church of England ? p.8o 5 8x. Pf Abfolute Promtfes, p. 8 3 . (9/ (jflaaf fl^r^r ?'* f Jb* matter of Jaflification, p. 8 5. Pf r6 P»P^. Of Stage-Playes, p.p7. Of Mr. T.W. p.P5>,io. :Of Mr,W.B. p,ioo. >4 Declaration against Vennor and his Confede- rates, by the Congregational Minijlers, p. 10 1. Non-conformifts more tolerable than Papifts and Quakers, ^162,103. The old Puritans peaceable, p. iotf. ^Modern Non-conformifts compared with thofein Queen Eliz. her dayes, p.m. ■Unity may be where there is not Uniformity, p. 1 26. Presbyterians noSeparatifls y p. 128. Presbyterians rather to be [at isfied than Papifts, -The Divinity of Non-conformifts not a Phrtfc- Divinity, p»i38. Of Ruling Elder Si p. 14 1» Of the Ufe of%eafon in Theolcgie, P« I 43» Whether Arminians or Calvinitfs come nearefi to the Dotlrine of the 'Church of England, p. 144, Non-conformifts not Hkj the Donatifts, p. j^ m a 2 ERRA- ERRATA. Page 6. line 10. /orgage rwi gauge, />. 35-. /.iS./.Antipariftafisr.AntiperiftafiS. p.^./.ij. , jf. humours r. honours, f-17* 1.17* f- Beaihs r. Brayles. p.42. /. 12. /.- Chriftmss r. Chriftmas. p.43./. 14./. leave r. leave. /?.yo. /.J./. Rigt- diflimos K Rigid iflttno's* /. iz.r. if more, &c. * + 79. /.24. /. mediaiore r. mediatorem. p. 80. /. 29. /. Auto***p««* r« 'AvTomrciy-ptns. /?.p3- /.23. /. sequilibro r. aeliquibtio. /?. 1 17. /• 7- f. difquetr.difquiet- p. up. /.14. f. Academaer. Academic, /.ip./- ni fiaiitcr, r. nifi aliter. ^ [*] An humble Apohgte for NonconformifIs 9 Tbitb modeji andferions tf^fleEliom on the Friendly Debate, and Conti- nuation thereof, &c, Qttefiion; WHatReaion can be given, if there be no guilt in the Nonconformifls, that no'Anfwer was given to the Friendly Debate^ for fo long a time ? Anfw. Bifoop Bramhal, that learned Prelate, may be theft Advocate in this Gafe ; (1 hope the Sons of the Church will not difdain to hearkea to a Father of the Church) Thofe -who have com- fofed minds, free from diflrathing cares, and Means to maintain tbem> and friends to affift them^ and their Books and Notes about' them ; do little imagine with what difficulty poor Exiles firuggle, wbofe minds are more intent on what theyfhoptld eat to mor- row, than what they fhould write, Bilhop Bramhal of Schifm, pag.275. Befides,if an Anfwer had ftolen forth without Licenfe, would it not have been arretted foi a fceming breach of a late A& about Printing j and the Author of it, according to the Divinity and Logick of the Frmily Debate, [*3 pag.3. concluded to be neither a good Subje&j nor a good Chriftian ? (vide Deb, pag.z.Edh.q.. ) " Queft* What Anfwer then can be made for printing this prefent Anfwer and Apology ? An[ve. The Intens and Defign of Laws, if the Confervation of the Publick Peace. The Law is Juft, Uniform, and no Refpe&er of Per- fons, whether Conformiftj, or Non-Conformifts, but binds ail to the Peace and Good Behaviour alike, doth not hold one Mans Hands, whilft Another cuts his Throat, orftabs him under the fifth Rib. If a Man be once and again violently affaulted, he may lawfully defend himftlf. The Author ofthe Debate hath fmitten us on the one Cheek, and on the other alfo ; hath reviled m § and with his Pen perfecuted us,jnd faid all manner of evil againft us falfly. In this cafe, t dad tnd ftupid filecce, might argue we were ve- rily guilty concerning the Crimes laid againft us. If a man that is Charged, Indided, and Arraign- ed, refufcth to plead, the Law adjudgeth him to be prefTed to death. Our bleffed Saviour himfelf Apologized for himfelf and his Difciples. So did .Juft In Martyr tndTertullian y for the Primitive Chrifiians. The great and foul Blots which have been caft upon our Names by that Author, would not foon out, if no means or endeavors Thould be ufed to wipe them off.- Que ft. But is every Tranfgrcfifion of a Hu- mane Law, though but penal, fo culpable ot criminous as is preceded ? jinfa* r i v4nfw. I humbly conceive cot. And there are thoufands of good Subje&s, and good Chriftians (many of them good Sons and Dau°b- - tcrs of the Church of England) who did eat Flcfh hit Lent, 01 laft Fryday, asking no Queftion for Confciencc-fake, in reference to any penal Law or Statute in that Cafe ; and who have not fcru- pled to bury their Dead in Linen, though con- trary to a late Acl: of Parliament. And if you lay fo great a Burthen upon every breach of a penal Statute, how fhall the Carrier long keep his Cart on Wheeis,or the Citizen long ftand on his Legs for want of Trading, by reaion of an A& of Parliament requiring the -Tire of the Wheels to be four Inches wide, under the penal- ty of forty Shillings for each offence ? Qtteft. Is it not therefore enough to fatisfie the Law to pay the Mulcl: or Penalty required in flic h Cafes ? (Fide Contin. pag.22.) Anfrv. Mr. Perkins, famous both at Home and Abroad, for his great Piety and Learning> hath amongit his Cafes of Confcicnce, this Cafe : Whether St fide fits in Colledges? and Members of Cor- porations ■> are tied to obftrvancc of their Local Sta~ tutes y under pain of Perjury f In refolviog where- of, he hath fomething ufeful, and pertinent to our purpofe : He faith, That Statutes are of two forts , Principal and Fundamental \ or lefs principal ^ the fir ft fort ', belonging to the Being of the Society , Are neceffary to be kept under pain of Perjury : A r r B a to to the lefs principal, namely, Statutes that are for Order and Decency , the Founder er Law- Maker exalts not Obedience (imply , but either Obedience or the Penalty', becaufe the Penalty is a* much benefi- cial to the ft ate of the Body, as the other, that is, as aftual Obedience : And in this Cafe, he doth not charge the Breach of any Local Statute with the crime of Perjury. And Bifliop Taylor, in his %ule of holy Living, Chap.3.pag.i83. faith thus : As long oa the Law is obligatory, fo long our Obedi- ence is due '-> and he that begins a contrary Cuflom without reafon,jinneth : But he that breaks the Law when the Cuflom is entred and fixed, is excufed • be- caufe 'tis fuppofed the Legiflative Power confents y when by not f unifying, it fnffers Disobedience to grow upto aCuftom. And I have formerly learnt it for good Divinity, That every meer or bare Omiffion to do a thing required by Law, is not a fin, {extra cafum fcandall & contempttu) provided it be not done fcandaloufly and contemptucufly, or with offence to our weak Brother, and in con- tempt of the Magiftrate* Qneft. What's all this to the Cafe of the pre- fent Nonconformifls f Do not they fcandaloufly and contemptuoufly break the Laws, in dwelling in and near London,md holding Religious Meet- ings commonly called Conventicles ? (fide Debate, page 2.) Anfw. Many of them have taken the Oxford Oaihj and are legally qualified to live in Corpo- rations. rations. Others cannot poflibly live in the Countries, for want of a Livelihood. I have heard of a Reverend Minifter, that going abroad to feek maintenance from well-difpofed Chrifti- tns, being benighted, loft his Way and his Life both, being through cold ttarved to death, Others perhaps will plead they cannot live peaceably in the Country : I heard one, and a principal-one, fay, He never looked towards the City, nor ever ftiould, if he had not been driven out of the Country. The Law of Nature teaches the Hare, the Hare, and all Creatures that are purfued, to fly to the nearcft and thickeft Covert, or hiding place. I have heard Huntfmen talk of giving the Hare Law ; I do not well underftand Forrcft Law : but I believe this is not meant by it, That fhe (hall hive no mercy if (he feeks to hide or to faveher fe If by flight from thofe that purfueher. There are alfo fome amongft the Nonconformists 3 that think themfelvcs bound to preach the Go- fpel ; and though they will not intrude into Churches, which arc at the Magiftrates difpofal, yet they look upon it as their Duty to preach in private Houfes : And for that in London and other Cities, the multitude of thofe that defire to hear, are greater than in other places, and their Meetings here may be leaft taken notice of, ther- fore probably they repair to thefe places of con- courfe. And what Fowler had not rather ihoot at a Flock, than at two or three fingle Birds? B 3 And til And what Fifherman would not chufc father to caft his Net into the main Sea, than into a fmali Biook ? The Quarrel of Fimbria againft Scevo- U y was, That he would not receive the Weapon of Death fat enough into his Body ; and the fame is the Quarrel that fome of our Brethren have againft us , That there being fuch {harp Laws made againft us, we aie not willing to pre- fent our naked Brefts to the point of them, and let our Brethren gage us with their Weapons? but chui"e rather to fly from Country to City 3 and from City to City, to hide our felves. Some there are, who can fay they hold no Meetings contrary to Law. There arc that hold fome private Meet- ings, bat firft they and their Auditors go to Church, and hear Common-Prayer and Sermon there, Moftof thofe that dootherwife may be fuppofed to be in and about London*, where, by realonof the burning of above four fcore Pari (h Churches, the Churches that remain may not be capacious enough to receive or hold all the Inha- bitant^ and befides may poffibly be at inconve- nient diftances from their prefent Habitations, Jf you fay, That the Old Nonconformist s, when they were fiiencd by the Bidiops, forbore to preach, and juftified their filencc agairft the Lrownifts who accufed them for it. To this, maybe replied, That the number of Ejected Mi- ni iters formerly, were not comparable to what it is now i ufually not one to one hundred, to what it [7] it is in our days. Beiidcs, the People that are diiTatisfied with the Liturgy 01 Ceremonies now, are ten> if not a hundred to ore, to what they were formerly. Whit fhail Mimfters do in th:f Cafe ? Our Saviour when he faw the multitudes* had compafllon on them, becaufe they were a$ Sheep without a Shepherd. Had you rather that Quakers and Romifh Seducers fliould gather up Multitudes ; and that Taverns, Alehoufes, and worfe places, (hould on the Lords day be filled with the number of thofe that abfent themfelves from the publick AfTembhes, rather than that they fhould be tolerated to bear a Sermon of Faith and Repentance, and other Duties towards God> and of Loyalty to the King, of Love and Chari- ty one towards another in a private houfe ? For my own part, I confefs in this Cafe, I would much rather go learn what that means, The Bar- uefi truly is great , and the Labourers are few : fray ye therefore the Lord of the Harvsfi, that he would [end forth Labourers into his Harveft. Again, it is to be conlidered, that MuDod^Mt.Hilderfhamy and others, were fiienced formerly but in fome Dioceffes, and for fome time ; afterwards they got diverfe times liberty to preach. Mr. Cotton had a Ltcenfe to preach, under the Broad Seal of England, procured by Bifhop Williams ^ then Lord Keeper, notwithstanding his inconformity. Mr. Cartwright notwithstanding he had writ fo much, and to iharpiy againft Conformity, was fuff&ed B 4 io to preach, and en joyed a place of Mailer of an Hofpital at Warwick^ to his dying day. Yea, Mr, Brown, the Father of the Brownifts, if we believe the Hiftorian, wasfuffcrcd to keep a Living, and that no mean one, (Achurch in Northampton- shire) to his Death. The Bifhops in thofe dayes, if they turned Men out of their Pulpits, let them have a Livelihood ; either fome way from their Livings, or elfe permitted them, or connived at leaft, "at their teaching of School. My School- master at a Grammar-School, was one that had left a Living, rather trian he would Conform* And 'tis ftoried of old Mr. JohnFox, by D^dor HeyliKy that though be refufed to fubferibe to any (thing but the Greek Teftament, yet he enjoyed his Prebends place in Salisbury till his dying day* f Tis worthy our notice, that thefe mens Yoak was more eafie than ours : And that notwithftanding they are thought to be of different Principles from the prcfent Nonconformifts, yet certain it is, that they held it lawful to preach and pray, and jeeepdays of Humiliation in private Houfes. And I was told by one Mir. w 9 That be never had any ether Ordination Jwt Prayers and Imposition of bands by old Mr. Dod, and fome pther Miniflers hi* Friends , in a private Houfe. Upon the consideration of the Premifes, my hearts defire is, That the prefent Age may la- bour |o imitate and (urptfs the Age paft ; the flight Reverend the gllhops, their PredecelTors, < in in their Forbearance and Moderation ; and the T^oncdnformijls theirs , in their Mceknefs and Peaceablenefs : That the Bifhops would endea- vour to be Reconciles, and Repairers of out Breaches, and Reftorers of our Pulpits to preach in ; and that the Nonconformijls would defire no- thing but what may become Sons of Peace, and fuch as earneftly long after Unity, and bad much rather, as becomes Labourers, be admit- ted to work in the Vineyard, thantoftand any longer idle in the Market-place : Or, as becomes Fifticrs of Men, to be cafting their Nets on the light fide of the Ship, than to tit any longer men- ding their Nets on the Shore. That fo the Ages to come, when they (hall read the Hiftory of this Generation, when we all {Conformifis and Non» conformifls) are laid down to reft quietly toge- ther in our Gra\^ may have no occafion to rife up and fay, Tharwhereas the late War had made its thonfands of Separatifts, Rigid Conformity had made its ten thonfands ; And all this too, during the peaceable Reign of our moft Gracious Sove- raign, (a Son of Peace) CHARLES the Clement • as he hath manifested himfelf, by his Royal Let- ters and Declaration from Breda, his Royal De- clarations fince, and his prefent Princely Cle- mency : And this toe, notwitbftanding great Animofitie?, ExafperaADns, and Jiritauoos of fome,on the one hand, cut of an inordinate Zeal ; "and many WeaknciTes, Follies, and Provocations of [10] of fome on the other, for lack of Knowledge. Quefl. Are not the Non- conforming. Mini- fters, who hold Private Meeting*, Schifmaticks, and Sectaries, and Breakers of the Peace and Unity of the Church > VUc Deb.p.zi i. Anfw. *Tis afign of exafperatlon (faith my Lord Bacon, upon the like difference) to condemn the contrary part as a SeEb j yea^ and fome indtfereet per- fons bitve been bold m open pre aching, to ufe dlfhonou- ruble and derogative fpeech and cenfure of the Chur- ches abroad ; and that fo far> a* that fome of om Men {as I have heard) ordained in forraign Parts> have been pronounced to be no lawful (JWlnlfters* So he. And further ^ Let's remember (faith the fame judicious Author) that the ancient and true Bonds of Unity , are y One Faith } one Baptlfm ; and not. One Ceremony , one Volley: And endeavour ta comprehend that faying, DirTerdfcU Rituum com- meodat unitatem Doehiuae; uhrlfts Coat was In- deed without Seam % yet the Churches Cjarment was of divers Colours. The Presbyterian and Congre- gational Nonconformijis do profefs to agree in the main Doctrine with the Church of England^ con- tained in her Articles of Religion, fo as fully td embrace, and conftantly to adhere unto what is purely Doctrinal in them. Befides, the Presby- terians do not feparate from the Church, fo as to fet up Church againft Cfcrch, Altar againft Al- tar ; but being thruft out of the Church them-? felves, and the number of men and women dif- faiisfted fatisfied about cither fome paflages or Cere- ionics in the Ly turgy, fo that they dare not re- ceive the Sacrament in the way required in the jwblick Affemblies, being very great ; they take bccafion to meet for Religious Exercifes in pri- vate, for a time onely, till a door be opened for them in the Church, by the removal of fome fup- pofed or real Corruptions in thepublick Wor_ (hip. And the reafon why fome (whilli they continue in the City) do not frequent tie Pub- tick Affemblies, may be this ; Becaufe they arc bere by connivance onely, and dare not be feen openly to out-face a Law : But when they are in the Countrey, they joyn with the Congregation where they refidc pro tempore, to fhew their Uni- on with the Church , and Conformity to the Laws. Nor are they therefore ro be judged Schif- taaticks, becaufe they ftiil hold internal Commu- nion with all Chriftians, and fo with the Church of England, with whom in feme things they conceive they cannot communicate externally. zAnd there i* not (faith a Learned Bidiop) fo great Conformity to be expeffed in Ceremonies, at in the EJfentials of Sacraments. T 'he Separation of the iV.C.from theCh. of EnglM not total,nor perpe- tual ; and a man may remove from his Fathers Houfe, it being infected, with a purpofe to come thither when all isclear and well again. And their defire and prayer isftill, That ttay that ryent forth of their Churches weeping (yet bsar- iri cr [la] inggood Seed, viz,. theDo&rineof Faith, Re. pentance, and Obedience to God,,and bis Vice* gcrent) may come again rejoycing, bringing their Sheaves (that is, their Congregations) witfc them. Quejl. But is not this partial and occafiona withdrawing of fome Non-conforming Miniftcn and people, from the publick Legal Aflemblicfj juftly charged with Schifm ? Jinfw. Hear what a Romifti Doctor faith, which is cited by B\(hopBramhal, in his Treatifc of Schifm, pig. 7, 8. Whenthere is a mutual dlvi. fion of two parts or Members of the Myflical Body oj the Churchy one from the other, yet both retaining Cemmunion with the Univerfal Church, (which for the moft part fprings from fome doubtful Opinion^ ot lefs nee ejfary part of Divine fVorfiip) qua 01 cunqu( partem arnplcxus fueris Schifmaticus non audies, quippe quod Univerfa Ecclelia neutram damna- rit ; what fide foever you take^ you are not a Schif? matic^ &C. Quest. Sith that divers of the Non-conform- ing Minifters had no Ordination but by thei Brethren the Presbyters, Can they be efteemed lawful Minifters? Is fuch Ordination valid, without Re-Ordination by the Bifhops ? Anfw. Ordination by Presbyters without Bi- fhops, was adjudged valid by our former BiftiopS; witnefs the Cafe of three Scottifa Bifhops, con? fecrated in England in King James his dayes : take fake the Hiftory of it fiom Archbifhop Spotf- vood, who relateth the matter and manner of it [hns : A Que/Hon, faith he, was moved by Dotlor ^ndrews, Bijhop of Ely, touching the Confecration if the Scott i/h Bijbops 9 who as he j aid, muft fir ft be tirdained Presbyters , at having received no Ordina- tion by a Bijhop ; the Archbxfhop of Canterbury, Vottor Bancroft, who was by y faid, That theresf there was no necejfuy ; feeing where Bi/hops could not he had, the Ordination of or by Presbyters? muft be ifteemed lawful : This applauded to by the other Bi- (hops, Ely acquiefed ; and at the day and place ap- point ed, the three Bifhops were confecrated. A-Spotf. Hift. Book 7. p. j 14. Dr. Field in his Book of the Church, holds the Miniftcrs lawful Minifters in the Tranfmarine Churches, though ordained without Biflaops '■> and Dr. Thomdiks> in h\s Trea- tife relating to the Primitive Government of Churches, hath fo much charity as not to un- church the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas, who have no Bifhops, pag.ioz. The pious, lear- ned, and famous Mr. Gataker^ never had any Epifcopal Ordination, but was ordained by Dr. Stem^ Suffragan of Colchefter, The Religious and Renowned Archbiihop Ujher^Aft-his Redu- ction fet forth by Dean Barnard? was of the Judgement , that the Chor-Epifcopi, or Rural Deans, might lawfully Oidain :-. And .this his Judgement was attefted by Doctor Holfworth, yea and very probably too, by Bi ftvo'p Brownrig, and and others of the Sub-Committee for Ecclefia| ftical Affairs in the beginning of the Long Par liamenr. The Atteftation is as followed : fV t are of the Judgment that the form of Qovernmen herepropofed, ts not in any point repugnant tothi Scripture^ and that the Suffragans Mentioned in th fecondPropdfition> may lawfully ufe both the power of Jurifdi&ion and Ordination , according to tht Word of God, and the PraUice of the Ancieni Church* Queft. But what great matter is it what the Modern Bifhops or Do&ors do or fay in this Af- fair ? Is it not fufficiently known that Aerm is reputed an Heretick for this Tenet, viz,. For de- hymgafuperiorhy of Bifhops above Presbyters f And Was not Ordination by Presbyters condemned by t Councel of the Ancient Church ? Anftv. Aeritu is counted an Hererick for other Opinions alfo, by Epiphanm, for which our Brethren that Conform will acquit him of Herefie. And the Reverend, Learned, and La- borious Dr. Stillingfleet hath given fcveral Rea- fons why thofe Ordinations might be lawfully thade void by the Councel, in cafe they had been performed by a Biftiop ; is becaufe in another Bi- {hop- Diocefs> becaufe /«* Titulo, &c. Que/}. If the Presbyrerians can be freed frori Scbi is yet what can be faid to clear them from th of S.*criiedge, eifber as Principals or Ac a t% ? Did not the Afembly put oat Annota tioss t*rt tionf on the Bible in rhofe times, and for fear /of difpleafing their Mafters, never meddle with condemning of Sacriledge ? Anfw* I anfwer : The Notes commonly called the AiTcmblies Notes, came out before the Af- fembly was convened, and was none of their Ad : And this is taken notice of, by fome very considerable Perfons in their Preface to the Rea- der before the Morning-Exercifes> printed 1659* in thefe words : We have (not without fome regret) ■obferved that the Large Snglijh Annotations^ in which but fome few onely of the late Ajfembly, toge- ther with fome others, had an hand, are generally af cribs d nnto the whole AJfembly, and ufaatly carry the Name of the Affemblies Annotations, as if done' by thejoynt Advice of that Grave and Learned Con* Mention, Yet further, as to the places mention- ed in the Debate* they were commented upon by the perfons here mentioned : That of Rom.2.22» by Dr. Veatly, an Epifcopal Doctor, and a Reve- rend man, a great Sufferer for his Majefty in the late times : That of Ezek- by Dr. Richardfon, Bi- (hop of hrdagh in Ireland, a perfon of great Lear- ning and worth ; and that in Genefis by Wk..Le*gh y who was Sub-Dean of CheHer. As for the Af- fembly, when they fat and a&ed as an Affembly, even in thofe days, they did dare to condemn Simony and Sacriledge both, as Sins againtt the fe- cond Commandment ; as you may read in the larger Catcchifm ; and they cite thofe two Scrips . tures tures for the proof thereof, Romans zi 22. Ma* I achy 3. 8. And as tbefe ware their Principles againft the Alienation of Cnurch-Means, fo they made it their buiinefs to prcferve the Lands and Reve- nues of the Church from Spoil and Rapine* The Bifhops Temporalis were engaged for great Sums of Money before ever the AiTembly met, and I never heard that the Parliament advi- fed with the Affembly about the fale of them, Yet this is certain, that th* Tythes belonging to the Bifhops were kept unfold, and referved for the Churches ufe 5 and all the Dean and Chap- ters Lands left untouched, even by that Parlia- ment, which (if ever any) was the Presbyterian Parliament, until their Members were feized on, fecluded, imprifoned, and driven away by the £rmy. They were not Friends to the Hie- rarchy, if we believe Dt.Heylin in his Cjf.Angl. who defigoed the buying in of all Impropria- tioQS ; and if we credit Dr. Fuller , in fifty years they would have bought them all in. And in af- ter times, when great Attempts were made to fell the Tythes and Glebe Lands, it was with- ilood zealoufiy and effectually, for it was pre- vented, under God, chiefly by the means of the Presbyterians, and their Friends in the City and Country. To conclude, will you have Mr. £00,* the Fore-maa of the Presbyterians, his Judge- ment about Sacriledge 1 For John Knox, (as faith Archbiftop Afchbiftiop Spotfwood) UU clear by his Sermons mnd Writings ftili extant , that he held it a point of high Sacnledge to rob and jpojl the Church of \Tythes. Quefl. U it not very pride 5 fclf'-conceI tedn eft, ! humour> peevifhnefs, yea, and very obftinacy^ that occafions their Non-conformity ? Anfai Some of the Nonconformifis of old) and of late, have offer ed to purge themfelves by Oath from fo great Crimes in the Cafe. And others have in the Pulpit in their Farew el Sermons pro- tefted the contrary* and tbrat it was mccr Confci- ence of Duty$ and fear of Sin, which caufed theis Inconformity. Quel?- Are the Nonconformists ju Illy compared to the Pharifes ? {See Cent. p. 138.) hnfw. No: The Pharifees in our Saviours time were great Zealots and Sticklers for the Ce* rcmonies of the Jewift Religion, and particu- larly for mens Traditions and Humane Inventi- ons ; were high Conformifts themfelves, men in Power and Place in the Church, and great Haters and Perfecutors of the ^nconformifts of their times. QHcft. Can any man that is not either very iimple, or very fcrupulous, queftion any thing in the pubiick Worftiip, in the Liturgy, 6r Ceremo- nies ? Is not the Liturgy fo perfect, that nothing can be added to it, ot taken from it ? A»/#* It was not always fo. Time was, and C that [i8] that but in the yeat 1644. when learned Mr; ChiHingworth preaching before King Charles the Firft at %*ading y ufcd thefe words : At what time foever a Sinner doth repent him of his Sins from the bottom of his heart, I will put aH his wickednefi out of my remembrance } faith the Lord : faith thus 1 The plain truth (if jon will hear it) #, The Lord hath not faidfo ; thefe are not the very words of God but the paraphrafe of men ; and (by reafon of tht mftakf to which it is fttbjetl) I fear very often pernicious paraphrafe. The Right Reverend the £i(hops have done very well to remove this Hum- bling block at the beginning of the Liturgy ; O that they would go on to remove out of the way every thicg that offends! That the Leflbns out of the Apocrypha-Books might be either exchan gcd altogether for the Canonical Scripture, or at lcaft reduced to that fmall number that was ap pointed in the late Scottifh Liturgy, where were appointed onely two Chapters out of the Apo crypha> one out of EccleJtaBicusy the other out of the Book of Wifdom. That the new Tranfla tion of the Pfalms might be read, as well as of the Epiftlesand Gofpels : That the three Cere ■monies, the Crofs in Baptifm, the Surplice, and Kneeling at the Sacrament, whether nocent 01 innocent, might be removed out of this, as out of divers other Reformed Churches, by means of the Biftiops Mediation with his Majefiy and the Parliament, on that behalf, as was thought advU fable I *9 ] Able by the Sub- Committee fot ReLigion^ Whereof the Bifhop of Lincoln had the Chair, £rid Bi^bop Brownrig ^ Dr. Hot/worth , Bifhop JJackjt,&c. were Members: Or it leaft, that jhcufcoE them might be free, according to his Majdtics gracious Declaration about Ecclefiafti- calAffairsr I wifh that of my Lord Vtrulam .might be always founding in the Ears of the Fa- thers, and the Sons and Daughters of the Church, till they give ear to it, That a contenti- on* retaining of Cuftom, u a turbulent things as Well as Innovation. Methinks 'tis as poflible for Nonconformlfts and Conformifis to be reconciled, as for the Church of England to be reconciled with Rome ; and yet that great learned BiOiop Bramhal thought that not altogether impoflible : Suppofing (faith he) that fomething from whence Offences either given or taken, which (whether right or wrong) do not weigh half fo much as the Unity of ChriftianS) were put out of Divine Offices, which would not be refufed > if animofities were taken awaji Bramh. of Sch. p.280. To this, let me add that Golden Saying of Mr. Hales, in his little piece of Schifm : grayer, Confejfion, Thanty giving, Reading of Scripture, hdmini/tration of Sacraments in the plainefi and Jimpleft manner , were matter tnough tofurnifh out a Liturgy ; though nothing ei- ther of private Opinion, or of Church Pomp, of Garments, or prescribed Geflures, of Imagery, or Mujickj of matter concerning the Dead, of many C 2 JHper- a. I [2 . 6 3 fuperfimties which creep into the Church under tbi nam -s of Order and 'Decency, did interpofe it [elf, Queft. Is there any thing that Can reafonably or modeftly be defired to be amended or better- ed in the managery of the Ecclefiaiticai Govern- ment or Difcipline ? A»/». The- Rubrick before the Commination in the Liturgy, fuppofes it defiiable, that the Piirnitivc Difcipline ufed in the beginning of Lent, might be reftored; when notorious Sin- ners were put to op^n penance. Is nothing amifs § (faith my Lord Bacon) Can any man defend the ufe of Excommunication as a bare procefi to lacquey up and down for Duties and for Fees ; it being the greateft Judgement next unto the General at the Uft day ? Lord Bacon his Difcourfe about Church- Af* fairs, p. 32. And might we not fay, That it fecms liable to exception, that Chancellors) and CommifTaries, and Officials, perfemsnot in holy Orders, (hould have power of Excommunica- tion ? I have read indeed that the French King hath the power of Excommunication; but ic may be coofidered that a Chriftian King is mixta Perfona, & cufios uirinfqtte TabuU , and is of Right, fupreme Governour over all perfons, as well Ecclcfiaftical as Civil. Bcfides* it were to be wifhed in reafon by the Bifhops themfclvcsi that the Bifhops might not be control'd by theii Chancellors, and their Sentence and Order, 01 Judgment one day in Court* be reverfed or made infigni- iarignificant by a contrary Order 01 Judgement of the Chancellor, the next. Quejt. But whit's the reafon that now adayes their is fuch Alteration and Innovation in.Wpr- (bip 2nd Difcipline defired and laboured for ? j Anfw. Divers things have along time> even ajl along more or lefs, been complained of, as grievous ; and the Removal of them have been icquefted from our Kings and Parliaments almoft ever fince the Reformation. Some of the Bi- (hops, and other men in great pl«ce>have felt the burden of fomc things required of them ; Bifhop Hooper would willingly have been diipenced withal, as to fomc of the Epifco^al Habits. Dr. Sampfon, Dean of Cbrift-Church in Oxford, Wis turned out of his place for Inconforofity. 'Peter Martyr profeffor, and a Canon of Chrift- £hftrcb, could yet never be perfvvaded to put on » Surplice all the time he was in Oxford* The Commons in Parliament, in the thirtieth year of Queen Elizabeth, prefented a Petition to the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, for the Redrefs of (ixtcen Grievances : Tbejtxfirft, faith the Hiitor dan, were againfi infvfficient (JMinifters : The fe- venth, That no Oath or Subscription might be ten- dered to any at the entrance into t^Miniftry, but fttch at is exprefly prescribed by the Statutes of this Realm y except the Oath againfi corrupt Enter ing.The eighth {That they may not be troubled for the omijfion ot fome %ites or Portions preferred in the Boek^of C 3 t & i Cofhmon- Prajir. The ninth \ Tbdt they may ftut bh called and urged to anfwer before the Officials and Commijfaries^ but before the Bifhops themfelves. The tenth y That fuch m had been fttfpended or de-ll privedfor no other offence , but onely for not\ Xt* fubfcribnig, might be refiored ; and that the Bifhops would for bear their Excommunication ex Officio mero, of Godly and Learned Preachers, hot detetledfor open offence of Life, or apparent Er- ror in Ddlrine. 1 he thirteenth , That the high Cenfure of Excommunication may not be denounced or executed for fmaU matters , nor by Chancellours} Commijfaries, or Officials, but by the Bifhops them* felveSy with the of stance of fame grave Perfons, Dri Full. Ch. Hiffo Queft. How can xhz'tynconfotmifts xtilohib\f t expect any alterations and condefcentions now for their fakes? Did not they deny a toleration to the Epifcopal Clergy but lately ? And did not the Elder Brother* Presbytery, deny to beir With the Younger, Independency ? And were they not very fevcre and ftfi£fc in punifhing all Diffenters from their way ? \See Cont. £.124,125:. z/infri. The l^onconformifis of the Congrega- tional way were then, and ftill.are For Liberty of Confcience ; and the Presbyterians humbly move For the like Favour and Liberty which others had inthofedays, different as to Government front them in the like Circuruftances. They forbore the impofmg of uhneceffary things, cr fuch thing* as as were doubtful, in and about the fervice of 6od> as terms and conditions of Communion with them. Befidcs, they fuffered many of the Epifcopal perfwafion without ever taking the Co- venant to enjoy places in Churches, Colledgcs, and "Schools. And 'tis notoiioufly known, That Dt.Wtld, afterward Biftiopmld, Dt.Gttnning % and others, had numerous Meetings for Common Prayer and Preaching, at London; and Dt'Hjde, Dr. Felly and others, at Oxford, in thofe days^ As to the five poor men (as rhe Author calls thflj Apologifts) they had liberty to preach, and en- joyed the fatteft and richeft publick Lectures in London. Give me leave to add too, that the Parliament by their Ordinance allowed the Bi- (hops 2od/. fer annum for their Lives; and I find in the Life of Bifhop that he had in Order to have iooo /. out of the Treafuiy ac Goldfmiths-Hall, with which he paid his Debts, and purchafed to bimfelf an Annuity of 200 /. per annum during his Life. And a fifth part of Livings, where the Minifter was ejected, for maintenance of Wife and Children : And fcarce any man in thofe days, that was able, fober, and peaceable, but might, if he had pleafed, have Employment and a Livelyhood. The Parlia- ment made no A& for Banifhmcnt of them from Corporations, forbad them not to teach Schools, or entertain Boarders in their Houfes, impofed no Oath on Women that taught Schooj,to capaci- C 4 utC f»4 Ciliios 3 tate them for that Calling, or elfe left them til 4* Ibe to punifhment for fo doing. And althoughfe they made two Ordinances againftthe ufc of thqp Common Prayer, I never knevsr one that fufFereditf fhc penalty of them. Qtte/i. Were there no Ceremonies impofedl by the Presbyterians in any part of the Worfliip of God f Did they not require men to be bare headed at the reading of the Covenant, and that fhey (houid all take it lifting up their right hand b heaven ? Are not thefe Ceremonies ? And i* not an Oath a fpecial part of Divine Worftiip £ (See Debate, p. 166. Ed.$ % ) Anftv. An Oath being an immediate and fo lemn Appeal to God, and having fomething of Invocation of the Divine Majefty in ir^ doth therefore require fome Gcfture or Pofture, that is paturally exprefliveof Reverence, at the taking of it. Reftdes, the lifting up the $ev. ip ? right hand to Heaven, was that j, o\ which the Angel did>when he fware. Bring as good reafon, and as good a ptefident for all the Ceremonies impofed in the liturgy, and they will be more eafily conformed unto. Q*eft. Are not the Nonconformlfts difobedient fo Governours^ no Friends to C (and that of the Oiths they had taken to his Majefty) you may in charity judge, if you take a tafte of one of thofe Papers to the General, and the General Coun- cil of War, Prcfented and Printed during bis Maj:fties Tryal. In it they declare againft *tf Proceedings again/} his Majefties Crown and Life* upn vrotinds of Conscience and prudence * Which when they had laid down, &c. they conclude, faying , It was the Conscience of the many Oaths of [27] Cod in which you, wc<> and the generality $f the Kingdom indlfpenjibly fiand bound before Cod ', An* gels, and Men j which made them thus to declare: themselves. That we dejire to wa(h our hands, a* from the Blood of all men, fo ejpecially of our Dread Soveralgn ; and to approve our (elves innocent of all that blood and mlfery, the Depofing and taking away his Majesties Life, will In our apprehenjion involve us, our Posterity , and all men profejjing Godllnefs in the three Kingdoms. We do there fere from our Soul bejeech and importune you and every we of you, a* iJMen, Gentlemen, and Christian Souldiers, by all that Can be dear to good men y a* you dejire to render a good account of yonr aUlons at the great day> to the right eon* Jtidge of Heaven and Earth, That you will forbear doing ought in the Premifes, which may wound the Confclence, or pierce the Hearts of any of Gods People, {who are all alike with you y or any rf y 0H t pre™*** to him oa the Apple of his Eye) which may rend and tear the Bowels of this your and our native Countreys ; and occafion the common Ene- my to blafpheme the Majefty> Truth, and Caufeof cur God : And further to contribute the utmoji skill, s~ludy, and endeavours of you, and every of you In your proper places {and the great Counfellor and mighty Q O V dlreB you all) to remove ours and the Kingdoms fears y to remedy the prefent a- boundlng Dijlempers, and prefent and Unlverfal De- firuBlon : That we and the Generations to come, may rife up and call you Blejfed • andfo eminent a prefer- vation vat ion of the Kingdom in fitch an extremity , may be !] had, in ever lading Remembrance. And as for their Loyalty to our moft Gracious Soveraign that now is, (and long, and long may God continue Him, and blefs Him with all the BlciTings of Heaven and Earth, both in his Pcr- fon and Government ! ) the Presbyterians have g/ren good Proof thereof : Mr. Camen prayed for r/s Majefty,with his Royal Titles,in publick; and for his fo doing, was accufed and arraigned of High-Treafon. Others of them in private Hou- fes prayed for him, would not own the Govern- ment that then ufurped over uf % nor keep their Days of Thankfgiving for tfee Vi&ory at Dunbar or Worcefter, nor publifh their Declarations a- gainft his Maj:fty or Sir George Booth, and thofe that endeavoured his Reftauration ; yea, there arc to be found amongft the prefent Nonconform- ing- Minifters, who had like to have been hang'd for engaging with Sir George Booth, and hardly efcaped with their Lives then, who have fince loft their Livings : Yea, fo zealous were the Presby- terian Miniftcrs for his Majefties Reftauration, that the chief Quarrel in reafon of the high Hie? varcbifts againft them, fhould have been no other than that of the men of Ifrael againft the men of Judab, Becattfe they were the firft in bringing the Kin% back^. Queft. Can any man believe that the High Conformifts were not the great Doers and Suffe- revs iters both, for his Majefty, and that meerly out of Principles of Confcience ? Anfw. I acknowledge there were divers a- morigft the Bifhops and the Conforming-Cier- gy, that did both do and furTer really out of prin* ciplcs of Confcience; yet that their oWn Inte* reft had fome considerable influence into the Loyalty of many of them, may be fufpe&cd ; for that they feem to exprefs more and greater Zeal againft the Presbyterians, who yet endea- voured to fave the King's Lifc^ than againft the Regicides themfelves that put him to death ; and more frequently and rftore fiercely every where charge, arraign, and condemn the Covenant ,than the Engagement \ as if they judged it was a mote unpardonable crime to endeavour to extirpate Prelacy, than actually to take away King and Hotife of Lords 5 more heinous to divert a Pre- late of his PonttficalibuSy than to cut off the Head of the Lords Anointed* This may poflibly occa- fion many fober perfons to qucry> If the Tables had been turn'd, and that his Majefty had been for the extirpation of Prelacy, and the removal of Liturgy and Ceremonies, and the Parliament for the continuance and upholding of them,whe-.. ther many that were very hot* would not have been lukewarm, if not key-cold in his Majefties »caufe ? I conclude the Anfwer to this Quefti- on, when I have Hid down this great Truth; That the Mitre is rioxc beholden to the Crown, than than the Crown to the Miter • and that it was hii Ma jefty that reftored the BiQiops, and not thci Bishops which reftored his Majefty. Qjteft. Is not this then a true Maxim in Poli- cy 5 That Monarchy is greatly fupported by Prelacy* and that the greateft Hectors for Uniformity ferve his OWajefties Intercji and Government mojt ant beft? Anf. The Lord Falkland (either then or \ while after Secretary of State ) faid in Parlia ment of fome flirting and leading Prelates be- fore the War, as followeth ; A little fearch will find them to have been the deftruttion of Unity under pretence of Uniformity : to have brought in Super* fiition and Scandal, under titles of Reverence and Decency, &c: In which they have abufed his Ma- jeftie as well as his People. Hcyl. Cyp* Ang. p. 408. Queft. But if it be granted that the Presby- terians have any Loyalty to his Majefty, have they alfo any love to the peace of the Church, and to Diflentcrs from their Government ? Da they not implacably hate the Epifcopal Clergy, and ftand irreconcilable to all Uniformity and Liturgy ? A»/#. In th.e Presbyterians Addrefs to his Ma. jefty they afleit the lavpfulnefi of Epifcopacy, and of a Liturgy. The mention of the names of ma* ny Bifhops both in the beginning of Reformati- on, and of later times, are precious to them, like J F fc [3*1 L like tn Oytvjment poured foith ; the memory of -them is and (hall be in Benediftione : And there iave been never any fo bad fince, as to make fo- ber peifons to condemn all. There are ftill of the Hierarchy men of that piety, learning, tem- perance, meeknefs and moderation, that we dc- fpair not (if fome Boutefeans and Incendiaries would ceafe blowing the coals) might be the happy Inftiuments to quench the Fire, and be like the good Shepherds, who bring home their Sheep when gone aftray, in their very bofoms, and with their Benedictions. There are alfo a- mongft DiiTenters many fons of peace, who love not to fifh in troubled waters, or to blow the coals ; great friends to Unity,Peace and Order, and no enemies to Bifhops • who either keep no Private-Meetings, or therein diiTwade not the people from frequenting thePubiick-Afiemblies, or hearing their Minifters or Liturgy. Qjteft- Have not they that took the Covenant abjured all Epifcopacy ? Anfw. It was declared in the Affembly before the Covenant was taken, that the Covenant did not bind againft a Primitive-Epifcopacy ; and at the time of taking the Covenant, this was frequently declared in private conference, and fome did it from the Piefs and Pulpit. How- ever, the Covenant obliges men, to acl: only in their places and callings, and fo far as lawfully they may ^ it doth not bind men lo be feditious in la the State, or fchifmatical in the Church, t( bring about any alteration or reformation of Gojr Vernment : tVc are far from thinking (fay their Presbyterians in their Paper of Propofals to hi< Majcfty, fpeaking of the Covenant) that it ehli\ geth vu to any evil, or to go beyond, our places and callings to do goody much left to re fist Authority, tt which it doth oblige ^(p. 1.3.) We fight not to u[i violent jumultuoHty feditioui^or any unlawful meam to bring about a Reformation. T^otwithftanding tht Covenant* we acknowledge it belongs to his Majeftf : with the advice of the Parliament , to fettle and re* gnlate the Church -Government. And it may be ierriembred,that Presbyterian Parliament voted his Majeftics Conccifions a ground of Peace, at though he never confented to the extirpation oi Epifcopal-Government. Quest. Were the Presbyterians bound by the Covenant to diveft his Majefty of his fupremacy in Ecclefiaftical Affairs ? See Debate^ pag. 168 4* Ed. Anfrv. An Oath for confirmation ought to be an end of all ftrifc. They have fince generally uken the Oaths of Supiemacy and Alieagiance, not above fix (that I hear of ) refufed it in all Scotland. And on the other fide, 'tis not un- known to fomc, that a very learned and great Clerk, a Dignitary of this Church, of no fmali note, was hardly perfwaded to take down this bitter Pill {according to hisguft) though it was double double gilt With' a Pretend of 200 /. per annum. His Mi jefties CommilTioner prefides in the Ge- neral Membly of the Church of Scotland. They Willingly and heaitily give unto the Kings Ma> jetty the chief Government of all Eftates of this R-alm, whether they be EcclcfialtaiorCivif. Tns Covenant binding men to reform according to the Word df God, could not rcafonably of charitably be conilrued to take away that Prero- gative which we fee to have been given always to godly Princes in holy Scriptures, by God bimu felf : i e* That they fhould rule all Eftates and Degrees committed to their charge by God, Whether they be Ecckfiartical or Temporal, and rcftrain with the Civil Sword the ftubborn and evil Doers. Yea, they are fo far from watiing Or clipping this his Mijefties Royal Prerogative that they would not be offended^ if the Statute of King Edivdrd the Sixths was again revived, Whereby all Citations in the Courts Spiritual* {hould ilTue out in the Kings Name, and be fea^ ledwith his Seal. And if it fhould once pleafe hit Majefty, it would not difpleafe them (no^ though they thcatilelves were admitted into the Church) to have a Vicar General in Spirituali- Qtteft. Are the high Sons of the Churcrrad-i vanccd fo many degrees as is pretended above the poor Noncdnfowitts in thcit Charity ? See VtbmcyV&o.Ed.x, r$4 3 A»{#. There is juft caufe to fear that amongft them, fome there are, who have a greater Chan- ty for the Church of Rome, than for the Presbyte- rians ; that is > for them that differ from the Church of England in Subftantials, in Doctrine Worihip> Difcipline, and Government; than for them who differ from them onely or chiefly ia Circumftaotiais, in letter and lighter matters, not of the Foundation of Religion, but belong* ing onely to the Superftru&ure ; or if you pleafe, at beft to the adorning of it. For my own part (and for all the Monconforming-Miniftcrs) I may fay, for ought I know, That we would foo- ner give the Right Hand of Fellowlhip to the highert and moft rigid Father or Son of the Church of England, than joyn hands with Rome* That fome of our Brethren of the other fide have not a heart fo inlarged with Charity to all men, and particularly to DiiTenters, as is pretended and boafted, may be evinced by the Treatife un- der consideration ; which may feem to be delign- ed to render their Brethren, and Minifters of the Gofpel too, ridiculous, if not odious. I heard no mean man fay, That the defign was, To put the Beads Skin upon us, and then to cry, Ha-Uo I Ua4ool I muft needs confefs, it appears to me, at leaft very uncivil, if not uncharitable alfo, to go about to pluck off the Healing and Sovcraign Pliyfter, which his Majcfties Royal Hands, with the Advice of' his Parliament (a whole Collcdgc of ds wnich [ Si 1 of Phyfitians) in the A& of^^^Bbpnity had laid oq the bleeding Wound?Hmch the lace War had made amongft us. I might add allbj that there arc Tome patTiges fo full of Lightnefs and Drollery, that they might better become ibme Ecclefiaftical Hudibra* ; or *Ben-J§hnfon, t Dottor of the Stage, than a Rabbi, or a grave Doctor of the Church- jQaeft. Are men of the high Prelacy, or high rnd rigid Sons of the Church, men of the higher* form in Religion^ and of a more perfe<5t,lcricu$ md folid Godlincfs> than the poor filly fcrupu- ous Nonconforming-Turn-outs ? {See Debate, Anfw. *Tis very Grange if Preferment, if *;reac places of Power and Profit fhould indeed nake men more truly and ferioufty godly, and particularly fhould by an dntipariflajis produce the great work of Self-denyal, Mortification, ire* We will not at prcfent compare Godlinefs - but this I think, That 'tis no demonflration of a higher degree of Godlinefs to jeer at Godlinefs> though in a DiiTenter, and accompanied with Tome VVeaknefles and imperfections, to make the door to the Theatre and Stage fo wide, and to the Church and Pulpir fo ftrait and narrow : Cer- [tainly the true right perfect: godly raan> is nei- ther your Nonconformist godly man, nor Corfor- fwi/?, as defciibed in the Debate ; but made apof both put together: whole Character we Da have have in a grM flpfure in the i6fth ptge of th< Treatife, in^ry opinion the beft page in thi Book : Where the Power of Godlincfs i$ fc| forth after this manner : ; A truly godly many ( who hath not only a nam* to live>& is dead; who is a Jew not only outward.] ly in the fkfti, but inwardly in the Spirit ; wh< hath not only the Form, but the Power of Godli nefs in him) is fucb a one as denies himfelf for Go> and his neighbour -^that fets not bis heart upon getting Riches \and is humble and modeft } that reverenceti his Governours, andfiudies in word and deed to pre ferve their Authority ; that humours his Parents though not of their Opinion, or perhaps ungodly that is fenfible of Benefits, and grateful to Bene faEiors ; that ftudies Purity and Chaftity ; that i kind and tenderly affetled to his Relations } tha keeps his Faitbj and performs his Promifes, though to his own damage ; that is eajily reconciled , if have been grofly injured -, that fpeakj well (if he can] of his Neighbour, and is not ready to believe ever Story of them ; that endeavours to pre ferve an eve temper ; that commands his Pajfions ; that is (lead and uniform in his Actions ; that is meek, and fub miffive^ peaceable and humble ; that loves Vertu wb re-ever be fees it> and doth not defpife or reproaci it under the name of meer Morality ; that is faithfu 10 his truft, fober, advifed, and confide fate in hisun dertakjngs ; that hath no opinion of himfelf, am hits God above all things \ that chnfcth rather t . C37] - ep at homey and mind his own Concernments, than be prying into the fecrets of his 'neighbours boufe ; tat has no other dejign upon any, either man or wo* •an> than to make them good, and further their in* safe in true fVifdom. Quesl. Are not the Presbyterians, Change* ngs, men of vciy limber Confcienecs, who in- ead of being cali'd Turn-outs-, may better be ili'd Turn- coats ? See Cont. f, 29. Anfw, One would think in reafon> thatthofe at are charged to be fo rigid, fcrupulous, fuper- itious, tenacious of their own Opinions, obfti- ite in their own way,(hould not eafily tuin with- rery wind. Amongft the Minifters* 'cis true, lere have been Willows, as well as Oaks; a- ongft our Parfons, we have had fome Vicais of 'atlas, who have turned in their Pulpits as well ; the Weathercock on their Steeples. Some anifters indeed would not turn, and for that afonare turn'd out. Confident I am, that e greatcft number of them that were Sufferers r refuting the Engagement, and non-comply- ice in the lare times, were of thofe that are or vc been Sufferers fince for Non-confor- ity. Queft. Are not the Nonconformifts men of urow Souls, and of a narrow Charity, confix :d to a Party, within a few private Waiisot onventicles ; whereas the high Sons of the huich their. Charity is as large as tbeii Cbur- D 3 ches, chef, even *s their CATHEDRALS Anfw. Sure I am their Charity is not fo iar« l §rs St. Pauley Rom.i^. There was before tt WarsaLady (is I have heard fromPcrfonf Quality) not very many years fince, wrote the Bifhop of Lincoln on the behalf of a Nor eonrormilt that was in trouble for fome fma Qmilfion or Inconformity : To whom the B {hop replied. If the Per] on your Ladifljip wrot ft bad been a Drunkard or a Whoremongtr, I cou tftave fbewed him favour ; but in this cafe, At all. It is marvellous to think, but fo it is, th Church-Charity (hould not be fo large as Civi The Members of the Long Parliament, who toe the Covenant, and impos'd it upon others> ( quietly in This, without having that impofed them, the refufal whereof, might occafion the Ejedmentoutof the Houfe. The Nobles an others about the Court, that Were divided in tr the late Wars, are fodered again, love one anc ther, and (which is a good and f leaf ant thing) dm together in Unity. The Lawyers in the Inns , Court, unite, cement, and plead together ; c 1 not, for the old Quarrel, turn one another ov< the Bat, or out 'of Doors. The Knights an Gentlemen in theCountrey, that fought on ft ^eral (ides, arc reconciled, and act together x one man for the good of his Majsfty and his King doms> notwithftanding what palled in the lat differences* Ondy the Miniliers and AmbafTa dor for* of the Gofpel of Peace, who fay and do not, frill as yet have no peace, clapping their Wings tijp ftir and beat up their Mettal, and crowing to found an Alarm to a Paper Combate. This is a Lamentation, and ought to be for a Lamentation. P tid tt hoc opprobria nobis ', &c. Qtteft. If the Nonconformists are fo charitable?* fo willing to forgive what is paft, and to receive Diflenters into their ownBofoms, or to come ajthemfclves into the Bolom of their Mother a- Jgain, (though (he may poiTibly be charged to have jthruft them out of doors, becaufe they have narrow Throats, and could not fwallow a Pom- pion inftead of a MaftickPill, or a Hedghogin ftead of an Oyftet) what's the Reafon then that of old in their publick Churches, and now-a-days in their private Conventicles, they ufe not the Lords Prayer ? Was it not becaufe of that Peti- tion, Forgive m our Trefpaffes at we forgive then* that trefpaji agtinft m ? Debate, p.pf. i Ed. An[w. There were thofe who are now 2ty»- tonformifts, that in former times ufed it conftant- ly ; and fome who wrot Apologies for it : And divers Minifters now-a-days who do keep private S Meetings, do ftill ufe the Lords Prayer in thcit private Congregations. Qnefi. Can they be thought charitable, efpe- cially to Diflenters, that cry out of the Pope as Anticbriftj and the Popiih Religion as Ancichri- ftian? D 4 Anf* m [49] Anfo* £ing James called the Pope Antkhr\$\ in his Writings. The Homilies call him lo.Hom* Tom.i.f.17* £tit* . and again p. 3 8. &/>.7o. Yea, the publick Prayers fonhe jthof Novemb before Aichbifhop Laud's time, faid ot the ^ manlslsy that their Faith was FaUion t and their Jleli°ion Rebellion* Q*eft, Have the Nonconformifts nothing mo- mentous againft the Common-Prayer and Cere* monies, but only to cry out, that it was taken out gf the Maft- Boo^, and that they are Reliqttcs vf Rome, on 1 Tim. chap, 6.) — and wt JhaU eafily keep our old and true Faith we had of the fir ft Chrifiians ; Let them fay Amendment^ Abftinence, the Lords Supper, the Communion* Table, Elders, ^Minijlers, Superintendents, Con gregation, fo be it. — Let us keep the old terms % Penance, Fafting, Prieft, Charity, Bijhop, t^Maft, Mattins, Even fong, the blejfed Sacrament, Al- tar, Oblation, Hop, Sacrifice, Alleluia ^ Amen, Lent y Palmfunday, Chriftmfi,&c. and the very words will bring us to the faith of our first Apoftles, and con- demn thefe new Apofiates, their new faith and phra-. fes. If we confidct further what is reported of Bifaop Bonner, namely, that when he faw the Reformation, and how many of their Ceremonies were retained, being asked what he thought of it } If they like (faid he ) totaftof our Broth fe -well, they will eat of our Beef fhortly* I dare fay the Church fmce the Reformation never inten- ded any adoration of the Bread by our kneeling in the acl: of receiving , and yet Bifhop Ha£ faith thus; / had a dangerous confilU; with aSor- bonift, who took^occafion by our kneeling at the re- ceipt of the Eucharifi, to perfwade all the company of our acknowledgment of a tranfubflantiation. It rauft be confeft further^hat^mongft well-mean- ing people, fome there are (though fcarce any among the Miniftry ) who fcruplc the naming the [43] ' tJ \ the Apbftles and other Saints, whether real or imaginary,by the name of Saints ; and their pic* may be, they cannot fee any fufrlcient ieafon ( fetting afide the Authority of Debatt % our Governors and the Cuftom of the p*g»6fa Tiroes and Places we live in) why we tfy. fliould fay St. Matthew and St* Andrew, rather than St* Mofes and St. ^4aron ; and why they ftiould call David a Bifhop in Wales, St.Da- vid, rather than K. David King in Jerttfatem, the one being truly a Saint and the Lords Anointed* and the other canonized by the Pope. Yet doubt- Icfs there are none fofcrupulous amongft us but had as leave fay St. Michael as St. George. A$ for the Nonconformifts-Minifters, it was the practice of Dt. Thomas Goodwin (as I am inform- ed) and was all along the late times, to fay fuch a Chapter, or fuch a Verfe of St. Matthew, St. Mark^y St.?aul,&c. That 'tis not alway nc- ceiTary to mention the Apoftles with the title o£ Saint y for fear of fin in the Judgement of our Church, may hence be concluded, that in all the Collects for the dayes fet ipart to commemo- rate the Holy Apofties in, there are but two Wherein they are (tiled Saints. Qne&. Do the Nonconformifts bold it utterly unlawful to keep dayes in re- Deb. membrance of what the holy ApoftUs, p. 7$. and other Saints have done or futfered ? i.Ed. and had they much rather keep a day of •Thankf- [44] Thankfgtving for O. C. his defeating his Majefty at fVorcefter, chin for Michael the Archangel his victory over the Dsvil and his Angels ? Anfrv. Some think it impoflible for a man, widrout fpecial warrant from God, to fancYifie my day,or make it holy in a ftrift fenfe; that is, fo that the fervice performed unto God upon that day {hould be more acceptable than on any other. Some think the abufes of thofe Fcftival dayes are fo great, common and cuftocnary, that if his Mijefty and the Parliament faw good, it would be better and more eafie, to abolifli the Obfervation of them, than to take away the A* bufes, which they think cleaves to them like the Leprofie in the wall of the houfe. That thele Feafts were of Apoftolical inftitution, or obser- ved by the Apoftles, any except Eafter, is not fo much as pretended unto that I read of; Hojpinian hath told us the Original of them, to be of a much later date : And as for the obfervation of Eafter it felf, Mr. Hales is of opinion that it was an Error to hold it neceffary to obferve fuch a Feaft; and the Controverfie about the Time (which fet all the World in a Combuftion ; and were it not that both fides pretended Hales of Gonfcicnce in the cafe,he thinks them Schifm, all guilty of Schifm) he faith was a p. j. matter moft unneceffary and vaine. The old Nonconforming Minifters did ufe to take the opportunity of thofe dayes to preach [45] preach in to the people. Some Reformed Chur- ches hive no Saints dayes, but only keep fome few dayes Holy in remembrance of our Saviour* otrelatingto the blcfled Trinity : So as I take it, doth the Church of Scotland even at this day. For my own part I think the Church of England is well juftified by Mr. Perkins from Superltition in her obfervancc of the Fcftival dayes (he ob* feives. I can affure you there are that can ob- feryc a day to give thanks for the victory of MU cbael over the Devil, which neither did, not could, nor would keep a day to give thanks for the victory of O. C. over the King at fVorce/ler t or of Lambert over Sir George Booth in Chejhire. As for occafional dayes of Fatting and Humilia- tion, they have not been fo much fcrupled in the World by fober men, nor may be fo liable to ex- ception or abufe, as the Gated Fails and Fcafts may ; and I think ufualiy they arc more ftri&ly obferved. As for the Nonconformiih private dayes, which the Author of the Debate fpeaks of, if they keep them no better (thofc that do keep them) than many, if not moft do, the ordinary ftatcd Fafts and Feafts , I think they may do every whit as well to lay them afide. . Qfteft. Next to Holy-dayes, what do the Nonconforming-Minifters think of the Surplice, and the reft, commonly called Holy Garments ; Is it not a fuperftitious and a very fupeifluous zeal which boyls over io againft thefc things ? Anfa, Anfve> Some I confefs arc offended at the Sur«« plice, becaufe abufed in the times of Popery to fuperftition ; and conceive poflibly> that becaufe Q[ueen Elizabeth's Injunctions or Articles fay^ that the gray Amice /hall not be tifed^becaufe it hath been (0 abufed to Super fiition ; that there is the like equity for the diiufe of the Surplice. There Was a Learned, and Pious Perfon, once faid, lie had often -from the Surplice * but he thought he fkould rather be hangd than wear it again. JFor my own pait, I (hould be loth to be a Martyr for or againft the Surplice ; being commanded to be ufed by the Church, not as having any holinefs in it, but oncly as a decent Garment : Yea, I fiiould be loth to be kept out of the Church or Pulpit by Suilling. The truth is, the Surplice is little beholding to thofe Doctors, that are the Champions for its ufe, when they tell us that it may teach us purity and holinefs , wherewith we are to be cloathed : And may it not as well mind us of the leprofie of (in wherewith we come into the World Lepers as white as Snow? Or when they tell us that the Saints that follow the Lamb in the Revelations, were all cloathed with long White. %obes ; for by this icafon all the Peo* pic, men and women, as well as the Minifter, (houid wear Surplices ; and this too would make more for Uniformity. Whereas 'tis faid, That there is as much to fo faid for a Minijlers wearing a Surf lice } a* for his wearing C47l . bearing a white Cap ; and that there is no more re*~ [tn for any to be offended to fee a Minifter wear a black^Hoody or a Surplice^ than to fee him wear a white Cap under a black* It may be anfwered. That the Surplice is a Garment commanded to be worn by the Mini, fter in Chapel or Church, and for the time of his Adminiftration oncly : The Cap is ad libitum ^ at his choice, and worn at all times, and places^ and employments alike , and not appropriated to holy perfons or holy fervices ; and what more icafon why any man fhould be offended to fee a white Cap under a black, than to fee a little black Jack tipp'd with Silver ? As for the Bi- fhops Lawn Sleeves, (whatever the Judge faid) I hope they (hall not cboak^me. The Caffock^ was - a Garment for a Souldter, and may weli enough, become thofe of the Spiritual MUitia. The C*>- p*gh, as'tiscall'd, is not for us Nonconformifls f being turn'd out to Grafs : Yet I would much lather chufe to have it about my Middle, than my Neck.; and to wear a (jirdle^ than to want a Blef- fwg. But now ferioufly to addrefs my feif to the Author of tne Friendly Debate : I think an indif- ferent temper about indifferent things, is the beft; my Religion ftands not in crying them up or down ; I cannot be very zealous for or againft them : Yet mcthinks it doth not argue much skill or cunning in a Chapman that hath Wares to fell, to [48] W tell hif Cuftomers, when they enquire atfe Would be fatisfied about the goodrieis of thcm : They are indifferent, they are indifferent; Thefc things of themfelves, and in themfclvcs confide- fed, with other humane Ceremonies, are but lawful, or indifferent, ntft necefftry^ in the Judg. toent of the Fathers and Sons of the Church. They are held, the Surplice and other Ceremo- nies , utterly unlawful in the Judgments and Conferences of many on whom they are im'p'ofed. Now grant it be their weaknefs fo ftrongly and zealoufly to oppofe thefe things ; yet I molt hum- bly btfeech the Molt Reverend and Right Reve- rend Fathers; of the Church, fcrioufly to weigh and coniider What that Great Apoltic St. Paul % the Great Doctor of the Gentiles, would have done in that cafe. Q*ift. Do thofe do well that reproach, revilej or flight Minifters> for their Caflocks, or Gir- dles ? &c. An[vt>. They do not do Welt ; no more do they that reproach and revile Ministers for not wearing of them. There hath been too much of this both on the Conformists and 'Honcenformijls fide ; but 'tis to the commendation of neither If we would forbear clairiing one againft another, live as Friends, as Brethren, and up to our pro. fcflion, we fliould be men fet by, and Reveren- ced by the People. What a fliame is it that there fhould be fo many fcveral Religious Orders in the the Romifti Church, wno have their feveral Mi^ bits, e^remcmious Obfcrvations, and yet honour one Another, and are all honoured by the Pco* pie. Queft. Yet if the Nonconformijls would come into the Churchy and not ftand out as they do^' but of Order and Rank, would not the Church; be terrible like an Army with Banners ? Anfw. The way to have all conform, I hum- bly conceive, is for the Bifhops to follow the example of the Great Council ztjerrifaltm, to lay upon the Necks of their Difciples, whether PaftorS or People, no other Burden but necefla- ry things, *AUs i$\ Add to this, At this day there is no perfect Uniformity artiongft our Bre- thren that Conform : For fome read all the P, avers, fome not ; fome pray before Sermon, fomeonely bid Prayer ; fome pray after Sermon, fome not ; fome read Prayers on the holy days, fome not ; fome read Prayers' on JVcdne[days and Frydayf, fome not ; fome preach twice a day,' fome but once % fome Catechife in the afternoon, fome not ; fome preach upon the 30th of Janu- ary and the 2pth of Cftidy, fome, yea the mo$, not ; fome bow towards the Communion-Table, moft not ; fome call it an Altar, moft the Com- munion-Table 5 fome bow at the name of Jtffu' % fome not ; fome are for their Doctrine Calvimfts, jfome ArmlnUns ; fpme zttLatitudiuarians, fome Altlwdinariant y fome moderate Coriformifts for E Caao- [jo]- Canonical Conformity; fome High Conformifts, and for Pcgetei-canonical Conformity ; fome arc %igidiJfimos , that have ihort,narrow,littIc fouls 3 and 06 the childrens threes \ others have large, true Chriftian bretfts, of a capacious and of a comprehenfive Charity : fome are for Union, Coalition, and Accommodation, though with fome Condefcention or yeelding on their part, (if his Majefty and Parliament think fit ) others think Moderation marrs all : Some account the C^/z//«/^»-Conformi(T:s :) Putitan.ConformiftS)and could be pleafed more of them were caft out of the Church ; others think the Nonconforming- Puritans ( fuch is their Life and Do&iine) may (permijfa Superiorum) well be received again in- to rbe bofom of the Church. Qj4e&. If the Nonconforming-Mintfters for- bear to coxe into the Church and conform out ofConfcience ? and not out of Policy, what rea- fon can be given why divers of them when they were offered preferments in the Church at his Maje&lesfuft coming into the Land 3 ftood blow- ing upon them fo long,before they would eiiher take or leave them ? P.p. in. dnfe. In the Judgment of Charity we may judge rbe true teafon was, they expected then feme Alteration and Reformation both in Wor- ship and Government 5 and they waited to fee whether there would be fuch a Reformation as tndi' Canfcicnces could reft fatisried withal : if fo, jfb, they refolved to accept thofe Dignities j biit When they perceived things were to be fetlcd in (iatu qtio y in the condition they ate now, chcy waved thofe places arid preferments. Might but Biihop UJhcrs Reduction have been admitted in the Govemment,and the Ceremonies removed^ or bat his Mj jetties Declaration about Eccieha- Hical Affairs been made a Law, they would have thankfully imbraced the offer! that were then inade them. Qtteji. What needs the removal of the Cere- Jiionies be fo much as defired of our Governors ?' Are they not like thofe of a Matter of a Family to his Children and Servants to come into the Parlour or Hall at fuch an hour to Prayer in the Family,and to kneel thcre 7 and be uncovered du- ing Family-Prayers ? D.p.io5,io/. . Anfoi The Noneonforming-Minifters ire ve- 7 willing to come to the Church at the hours ppbinted by Law, and there to ftand or kneel* tnd be bare or uncovered at the time of Prayers, f fuch conformity may icrvc the turn : But di- ners look upon the Ceremonies injoyned in the ituigy, as of another nature than thofe above- nention:d (relating to Peace, Order and Dcccn- y only ) namely, as Rites of a Myflfical or Sa- ramenral fignification, and therefore have been ejected together With Popery at firft by many >f the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas, who ret we doubt not worflhip God decently , and of. E 2 deily* [.J*] dctly? and in the beauty of Holinefs. Que ft* Are the Nonconform^* fuch a crofs gram'd Generation, that it is the only way t< bring them to Conformity? for the Magiftrate t< forbid the ufe of the Ceremonies ? D. hnfvt. I wi(h (if hisMajefty pleafcd) trya might be made in forbidding the Crofs and Sur- plice, the reading theLeflons out of the e/^p* crypha y and the Old Tranftati&n of the Pfalms o David t Quejt. Do not the Nonconformifts hold that nothing may be done in the Worilhip of God birt what is injoyncd by him in his Word ? Deb. p 10 1. edit. i. An[vt>. They generally hold that nothing muftbedoneas a part of Gods Worfhip, nor as properly a medium cultm ; but they hold that the determination of meet circumftances neceflary in genere^s not neceflary to be fet down in the Word. Vid. Mr.B&xt.ku dijputat. about Ch. Govemm, and the no true Minifters? and do they diflwade people from frequenting the Churches, and hearing their Minifters fctled in them? Anfw. The Presbyterians have juftified the calling of Miniliers ia the Church of England^ in their jheir JW Divtnum t^Mimfltrll Anglican ; they Mufc not to communicate with the Publick Af- toemblies; divers that fometimes keep private to Meetings for Religious Exercifes, they and their Auditors go to Church alfo, and joyn therein in graying and hearing, and receiving the Sacra^ i-nent of the Lord's Supper. Qnefi. Do the Nonconformifts-Minifters hold .11 fuperiority of one Presbyter above another, \ntichiiftian ? A*i[w. As to the Biftiops of the Church of £>7g/rfW,invefted with ail that Power which they uve, and ufually exercife in the Church of Eng- andy without the joynt-advice and confent of he Presbytery, we look upon them not as Jure Divino ftricUy, but as his Majefties Deputies tnd Commiffioners in Eccleiiafticall Affairs ; md, iince his Majcfty is pleafcd to make them ords, can give them their Title^and fcrvc God ind the Church under them? Qhc$1. Is the Aflembly in their Directory or Worfhip fo much out in advifing and direct- ing Minifters to preach in the evidence and de- nonftration of the Spirit and of Power? and a:$ thofc Minifters guilty of error and preemption now-a-dayes who make this a petition in Prayer )efore their Sermons, that they may be enabled fo to preach ? SeeDeb.f. ?. edit. J. Anfw. The fenfe of the Author of the Debate and divers other Interpreters, and thefeofe in E 3 which I H 1 which the Affembly and many other pious anc Seamed Preachers ufe this Scripture, i Cor 2.4 need not necefjarily to exclude one the ether, Take BiiTiop Ha/Ps Paraphrafe upon the place My fpeech both in my private Exhortation^ and it fny public^ Preachings > was not curioufly plaufible as if I would win with words of humane EloqttenCt and (Vtt ; but in plain and powerful exprejjions cr Cod*s Spirit jpeafyng in me y and workjng in you b 4 pe> And thejpious, prudent, and learned Bl ft\oyoiChejleY y in his Ecclejiaftcs, dirc&ing whai kind of phrafe a Minifter muft ufe in his preach- ing, faith, it mutt be affectionate and cordial, 4 proceeding from the hearty and an experimental ac- quaintance with thofe Truths which we deliver — Sidd$ y this is to fpeaJ^ in the demonfiration of tkt Spirit and of Power. Befidcs, the learned Dr« Hammond tells us in his Comment on the New- Teftament, that divers places in the Old- Te- ftament are faid to be fulfilled in the New by way of Accommodation. And why may not thi* Scripture be ufed by Miniftersby way of Accom- modation alfo ? Do not the Sons of the Church pray for the Clergy of England, as for God's ownj Tribe, the Tribe of Levt t Befides, if you fe- rioufiy confider the Context, you may fee caufc; pot wholly to itjzft the other interpretation, namely th^t of Mr. Dixon in ioc. Demon(lratic\ pibw Scripture & folida f^eritatis qnibtu Spirit 144 \ fat enter fe exerebat & operabatur ihveftru Ammis. tt*fJ m Qttejl. Do the Nonconforming-Miniflers pre- 4 tend now to pray by the Spirit, as if the Hcly- ; f.Ghoft fhould immediatly infufe method, matter e ;and words whilft they pray ? i A»/i*. Mr.Hollingworth, fometime a prime ^Presbyterian in Lancafhire , fhall anfwer for flthem. They do not hold that they ought not to take "j thought before-hand what they fhould fray, expedi- ting that the Holy-Ghoft fhould .immediately tnff.re \ them with methody matter and words of Prayer ; T»ho ever f aid) it wot not they that prayed, but the Holy-Ghofl praying in them. And yet in this duty a* veeR at in others, the Sons of God are led by the Spi- rit of God) which is a Spirit of Grace and Supplica- tion ; and becaufe we know not what to aik^y he helpeth our infirmities ; and we may be f aid to pray in the Spirit^ not onely becaufe the holy Spirit doth fiir up, warm and enlarge our affections in praytr % but he brings oft times to our remembrance :Le fa- voury and (mtatle phrafes and ptffages of holy >*rit, efpecially the promifes which are mofl pertinent to our purpofe. Why fhould any imagine that the evil (pirit can have power to faggeft evil thoughts or imaginations into hs, to diflratt and hinder as when we are prayings and not the good and holy Spirit fksuld (uggeft good thoughts and dejsres y and that too in his own language, I mean in Script ure-ph'zfs and exprtffionS) bringing them at fuch a time to our remembrance ; Tea, the Holy -Ghofb (faith that pioifs pafon) retrains the petulancy and extrava- E 4. gmcj gtwcy of mtj great [welling vfor&s of vanity, vain tabling* i idle repetitions, &c. and he teaches m to -pray in the words oftrm h and fobernefl. We acknow- ledge a dlfiinSlion betwixt the Gift of Prayer ,and the, Sprit of Prayer ; The one is a common gift of the Spirit, the other U a fecial gift or grace of the Spi- rit, that confijis in apt exprejjions, outward enlarge" ments ; this in deep imprejjions on the heart, devout afftclions, which are too big {or exprejfions • theft are the jighs and groans which cannot be uttered . A Reverend and worthy Prelate of the Church o£ England, treating of the gift of Prayer, P.i2o faich thus, — Jfit he a fault not to flrive and labour after this gift, much more is it if jeer and defpife it by the name of Extempore Pjaycr, and, praying by the Spirit : which Ex- prefftQns, 04 they are frequently ufedby fome men by way of reproach, are for the moft part the fign of $ prophane heart, and fuch a* are altogether jlrangirs from the power and comfort of this duty. Quest. In cafe this cxpreflion may be tole- rated and admit of any favourable conftru&ion, Do not they often-time? ufe many light and in- decent and fomecimes very clownifh cxpreflions in their Prayer, to gratifie the rudenefs of their Auditors % Deb.p.62. edit .4. Anfw. As for many of then* they are not rafii to uner any thing before the Lord. they are very ferious and fober in their expreflions, affe&ioDac a*id salons in their utterance. There is a liule Book BookofthcPrtyers of many of the chief or ther»3> taken, I fuppofe, in Short-hand, without their knowledge, and publifacd ( foe ought I know ) without their confent; yet 1 conceive with fomc grains of allowance for common and pardonable errors, might pafs with an imprimatur. And i£ there be fome who haveufed unbecoming exprel- fions ; Are there not to be found alfo among the Gonformifts guilty of the like Indecencics?Not to mention the Pr. of D. /. M. at Oxford, nor | the Dr. of D. R. at Windfor ; I hope it may b& pardonable to cite that of the D. which was printed with his own knowledge ; Let the Gold of our ^ability excel in Grace oa they do in Honour -, fnrifie the Silver of our Gentry from the drtfofVice; engrave upsn the Brafi of the Commundty the fear of thy holy Name. As for their affcaionate way of utterance, I fuppofe it may be a means to move themfelves & others tofutable affections to the duty they are about. Vocal Prayer, where it can conveniently be ufed, is by fome prefer* ted before mental, becaufe 'tis, a means to excite affe&ions, and prevent diftra&ion. One end of* Prayer > as a. very learned Author tells us, is not to move or affect God, but our fclves, that we i may be fit to receive the good things that we beg of him ; and then thofe words and phrafes, and that way of utterance or fpeaking which is moft affe&ionateandledUffcaed, which is beft a* dapted to the matter of the prayer, and pro- ductive ,[j8] du&ive alfo of good efTe&s in our felves and o- thers, ought to be eftcemed lcaft liable to blame or exception. Is it not the part of an Oratour to change his voice and gefture, according to the variety of the fubjeel: or matter he is fpeaking of ? do not men begin an Oration with a low voice or tone ordinarily, and fo rife higher as they go further, and ordinarily are moft intenfe and earneft towards the Conclusion? We are directed in the Common-Prayer-Book to repeat the Confcffion of Sins after the Minifter with a tfieek.heart and humble voice : And I have heard of one, that, for his voice and confidence, was charged that he confeiied his fins as if he was proud of them ? Quefl. Do not forne Nonconformifts com- plain tbat they cannot be fo affected in the hear- ing of Common-Prayer, as at other Prayers f Deb. p. 89. edit. 4.. Anfo. I have heard it bitterly complained of, that the Common Prayers which are good in thernfclves, (houldbe abifed by mean, pittifull, fcandalous Readers, and be read in fo flight and dull a manner. The Liturgy is not ordinarily? as to its effic^s on the generality of the Auditors, the fame, when read by a worthy perfon, and in a grave and decent manner, as otherwife : yet I confefs fomc reafon why many men are not fo much affected with the Common- Prayer as with the Miniftei's own Prayer, may be the frequent icpe- repetition of the fame prayers. I fuppofe where a man ftri&ly tieth himfelf to a Form of Prayer (chough of his own compofing) constantly before ox after Sermon, it is not ordinarily fo atfe&ing or quickning to himfelf or others, as when he doth otherwise. I think Prayer by forms, and conceived prayers , both lawful", and both of them have their excellencies in fome refpe&s. That by a Form, excells in fome refpe&s Con- ceived Prayer ; in others, as I heard the Pious, Reverend and Learned Dr. Hold/worth when he was Vice-Chancellor ( at the Commencement) at Cambridge determine the matter, though he concluded for the lawfulnefs and expediency of a Liturgy for Publick Woifhip ; Such is the na- ture of man that he is ordinarily moft excited in his affections , and his attention foont/i engaged and rai» led by Jiovflty or variety. And hear what a Re- verend Pevfon, no enemy to Epifcopacy and Li- turgy, faith of Prayer by Book ; There is not that life and vigour in it to engage the affcttions^as when it proceeds immediately from the foul it felf, and is the natural expreffion of thofe particulars whereof we are moft fenfible. B* Ch . G . P. p. 1 2 . Now one Reafon being given in the Preface to the Litur- gy, why fome Ceremonies are retained, being this, becaufe they are apt toaffett the dullm'nd of man &c. why may not a MinifL-r fo order his Piayers before and after Sermon, &c. as to voice and phrafe, as may molt probably affe to decry Preaching. Gatechifing indeed is talked of much, but by many 'tis to be feared, itisto juftleout the Afternoon-Sermon out of doors : for we find in many Churches there is neither Preaching nor Catechifing in the After- noon. Of old, preaching was accounted pracifu- um munm Epifcopi, the Bifhops chief Work or Office. Bifbop Latimer was very fmart againft Unpreaching Prelates in his time ; but of later times the Lord Falkland in hisfpeech in Parlia- ment charged fome of that Order that they dif- couraged and difcountcnanccd Preaching ; that they preached not themfelves> and. difcounte- nanced them that would. And not long before the Wars, I heard a Friend, a Mmifter (that had been with his Diocefan) who faid, That upon his quoting quoting of Bishop Divenant to the Bifbtp^ In juftifi- cation of [omething be faid ; the Bifbop replied y WHAT DO YOU TALK OH HIM, A PREACHING-COXCOMB ! Bilhop Latimer, %jjileyi Jewel, &c. were great Patrons of Prea- ching, and themfelves pra&is'd it. Archbifoop Grindal went fo far as to countenance the Meet- ings called Piophecyings ; and Bifhop tfallol late thought they might be profitable.. Former Hiftorics did not tell ftories of any Bifhop of the Reformed Religion, that gave God thanks that he bad not left one LeElure y or one after noon -Sermon in all bis 'Diocefs. There was a Gentlewoman of good Quality, cited a Kingly Preacher, v'm. So- lomdn in his Ecclefiaftes , for preaching in the Evening as well as Morning, Ecclefn.6. In the morning fow tbj Seedy and in the Evening with- hold not thy hand. In the Country they account thofe Shepheards. moft careful of their flocks, and to have ufually the beft Sheep, who fothec twice a day. The Apoftle Paul exhorts to be /»- ft ant in feafon avd out of feafon : a Sermon in the afternoon can be Due out of feafon. 'Tis obfer- ved that the Sermons at Court before and why may not a Soul of a healthful constitution have two Meals a Week* I believe the ChvilVians in Rujfia have never the fatter Souls for going in lean Paftures, for two Meals, I mean two Sermons a year. Que!}. Would it not be good Policy not to fuffer any to preach, butoncJy to read Common Prayer and the Homilies ? Would not this be an effectual way and means to prevent Errours and Heretics, Rents and Divifions among!.* us ? Doth not this preaching low many Tares in the Field of the Church ? Anfo. I have heard of fome Preachers indeed who preach down preaching, but I take them to be never a whit the better Preachers, nor the better Chriftians for that; I acknowledge the Homilies to contain wholforn and very profitable Doctrine, ['4 3 BocVme, and think I libuld fpcnd my time better to heat one of them read, than t6 hear fome Preachers now-a-days. But if ability to lead the Book of Common Prayer and the Book of Homilies, be ail the Book-Learning neceflary for a Minifter, 'tis to be feared that fome Prin- ces or Parliaments may come, before many Ages pafs, who may be fo thrifty as to be willing to fave the nsedtefs expence of a- million or two millions a year in Church-Maintenance ; and think 20 /. per annum enough for men of fucb Parts, Education,, and Learning. Q*efl m U not Catechiling the younger people in the afternoon, a very profitable and a laudable practice ? A»/i*. This I can fry, I ufed It for many years together, befides preaching ufually twice a day, "Tisobferved that the Proteftants in the begin- ing of the Reformation got advantage ovcrthe Papifts,by their diligence in Gatechiiing ; and that fince the Papi/ls by their diligence the fame way, have got ground of us. I am not againft tbeufcof the Church-Catechifm for Children j and do really think the Right Reverend Bifhop T^icho/fon hath deferved well for his Expolitioa of it. But I confefs I cannot approve of the Vi- car that in his Catechifing, going about to juftifie that Que ftion, What is thyTsl^me* brought that Scripture for it, where 'tis recorded of our blcf- fed Saviour? that he faid to the man pofleffed of the- tm he Devi!, what is thy Name ? and he anfvveied, My Name is Legion. But as for the knowledge of theCatcchifm (if t may lawfully be done) I could be glad none' highc be married before they give an account of fi Queft* Sith preaching is fo necefTary, what vay of preaching is beft ? The Jingling way, or he Rational Philofophical way, or the Rational Scripture way, with Reafons out of Scripture, nd Teftirftonies from Scripture? Anfw. I dare not commend the fiift way^ tbich yet I fuppofe was more pra&is'd in former i^aes than of late : Such as that was of Dr. PL >n that place of the Canticles y (JWy Bed is green ; Typical, My\ Topical, Bed; Tropical, green : typical. Topical, Tropical ; My Bed is green. uch as was that of the Doctor and Dignitary at Oxford about the loft Groat ; fuch as was the node of the Wits about thirty years ago ; and uch as was well expreffed and expofed lince by a Citizen or Countryman, who being asked how e liked the Sermon, and how the Minifter prea- hed ? Anfvvered, He could not fay much of ir$ I ut it ran or founded thus, as if he had fiid^ &A Puddings a Pie* A Pudding-Vic : A Pudding for the*i A Pie for me $ F J [66] f A Paddwg^Pie For me and thee* Nor do I look on him as one of the fineft Pr eaeh- er$, tbat lately exhorted his Hearers to put on the Sattin of Sincerity } the Par fie of Purity, and the Silk^of Simplicity. As for the Rational way> the mode of fome great Doctors of thefe days, if they would inter* mix more of Scripture-Reafon, or Scripture. Teftimoniesj it might be very profitable for lear- ned Auditories. As for the way by Do&rine, Reafon, and Ufe : by Teftirnonies out of the holy Scriptures, more than Citations out of the Ancient Fathers, or by Reafons deduced from Philofophy> (fuch as J apprehend was the preaching of Mr. Perkins^ Mr* Htlderjham, old Mr. Dod, Archbi(hop#/for 5 Biihop Sander [on, Bifhop Reynolds > and many others in our days) I think it moft edifying tcj ordinary Auditors : And this I conceive to be that which the AiTsmbly mean in their Directory for preaching, and others in their Prayers before Sermon, by preaching in the evidence and demon* ftration of the Spirit and of Power. Biftiop Hal in his Paraphrafe, and the Biiliop of Chefier in his Ecclefile theinfelves for Religious Excrcifes. And :here were a Congregation of Pioteftants in the leiga of Queen CWary, which yet were good F z ChrilVi- t«.1 Chriftittis and good Subje&s ; and which I woulc cot brand with the name of a Conventicle, nc v more than the Author of the Debate would the Meetings of Dr. Gunning, Dr. Hyde, and others, for the Common Prayer in the late times \ al- though if Conventicles be againft the Commor Lav, that was the fame then and now. Judici- ous Mr. Hales in his Tra6t. of Schifm. p. 2. hath more Charity for Diflenters When either falfi and, uncertain Conclti. fans are obtruded for Truth y and AH s either u lawful, or minijlring juft fcruple, are required m to be performed ; in thefe Cafes, (faith he) Con< fent were Conjpiracy ; and of en Contefiatton is no Fattlon or Sckifm , hut due Chriftian Animo fi'7- . . . Queft* Whether do the N'onconformift-Mrm. pen look after Vifioos and Revelations ? Anfw. Tis that which the Papifts and Semi P.pifts, the Quakers, pretend unto; but thef< I conceive may rather be ranked amongft th< ConformiflS) than the J^onconformi/lsy by the Jik< reafon that Seekers and Anabaptifts are numbre< a non gft Nonconformisls. And here let me infer a fhort ftory : In the late times , One {now a great Son of th Church) travelling with two (now Nonconforming Miniflers ; he being the Senior Man and Minifler wad de fired t9 fray with them and for them, beforl they went to Bed : this he did; and in his Praje\ frayed rayed. That God would fend them Godly Dreams What night. On occafon whereof, one of the Mini- vers [aid to the other , He did not like t hi* over- lodlinejs ; he that would over-godly \t> wonld unkr- odly it. \ If any Nonconfotming-Miniftcrs hive been jjjperftitioufly obfcrveis of Dream?, it may be queried whether the late Little Great Archbi- shop of Canterbury was not guilty of the fame lulcilfo. \ Qaefi. Do the Nonconformlfis perfwade or af- lure tnemfeives of Gods favour onely or chiefly irocn * voice within them, which they fay is the tjoly Spirit, telling them that they ate Jedidiah's, gloved of God? And do they not look upon [fhat Graces the holy Spirit hath wrought in jjacm, as evidences of his Love ? I h»fw. We affirm that the works or fruits of 3c HolyGhoftinus, which upon fearch we find [] our own Souls, are our Evidences of Gods bvetous. If we once find in our felvcs thofe racious Qualifications to which the Piomifes cf [ardon, Peace, and Comfort are made in the ho- \i Scripture ; this is every whit as furc as if an j.ngel from Heaven lliould tell us with an audi- ,le Voice, Be of good chear, your fins are forgl- en you j Peace be to you, you are the Favourites of leaven* The Spirit of God is firft a fandHfy- ■ig, and then a fealing Spirit 5 fiift he converts 5, and then he comforts us. F 3 S&ft. . C 70 i Qveji. Do not 'H^nconformifts vaunt too muc of tticir Altiiranccs, Comforts, Experiences And may not thefe prove ttrange fancies in con cjufion ? Anfw. The holy Prophet David } and the blef fed Apoftie Paul, both cite their own Experien ces, and draw comfor from them l Sam. ijo He delivered me from the month c 37, the Liotty And from the farv of th Bear, and he will deliver me frt thi* unc Ircumci fed Philiftine : So the one. An he hath delivered, he doth deliver j in whom 1 tru 4 alfo that he mil yet deliver. So the other. Q^efl. Do thefe Nonconforming-Miniftei cheat the People, by making them believe thi they preach experimentally what they have hear and feen, and experimented themfelvcs. Del Anfw. I have heard that it was the Saying of Learned Man, no JSfonconforwifl,, That the wayt be a good Treacher , wai to get a good Heart, Doubt Ids that which comes from the Heart, is mof jikelytogoto the Heart. He that hath tafte thefwectnefs of Honey and Sugar, can bette fpeikof it, knows better by his experience th< fwcetnefs of Honey and Siigar,^than he that hatl onely heatd and read of it in 1 Book* Holy Da V.id^ a King and a Prophet, called to others t( hearken, and he would tell them whit God had dor* for hu SotiL He that hath been perfvyaded antfl cor;^ f>i J converted himfelf, is likelieft to perfwade and :onvert others, 'Tisftoriedof Junius, That before his Con- crerfion, meeting once with a Country-man as he was in a Journey, and falling into difcourfe ,vith him about divers points of Religion, he ob- ferved the plain fellow to talk Co experimental- ly, with fo much heartinefs and affccl:ion 3 as uade him firft begin to think fure there was jpmething more in thofe Truths, than his notio- nal humane Learning bad yet difcovered ; which Dccafioned his more ferious enquiry into them, and afterwards his Converfion. Quest. Is it proper to alledge the converfion Df Souls from the Error of their Ways, as a Seal toourMiniftry ? Anfrv. The Apoftle St. Paul, when his Mini- fy was queftioned and difgraced, appealed un- to this, 2CV.3.2. Te are our EpiftUy (vi&. of com- mendation to or from the Church of Corinth) written in our hearts, kriown and read of all men. This Epiftiewasthe A potties Evidence and Seal that he was a true Minifter of the Lord Jefus. But this I muft have leave to fay, that 'tis no evidence of a real converfion, to rail at Bifliops, or the Common Prayer ; nor on the other fide ? at Nonconformists , as Schifmaticks , Sectaries, Rogues, &c. I know that Religion is anothei thing, and teachcth other things, better things than thefe. And I believe there are feiious,fc* F 4 t>wi [72] ber, fcdid, godly perfons, excellent Chriftiansi placable, Sons of Peace, of both Perfwafions - y that pray to God, and would be ready to joyn in Petition to Authority, for fome expedient for a Reconciliation : And fuch a fpirit as this, I look pn as a Gofpel-fpirit, and well-becoming Prea- chers and ProfciTors of the Gofpel of Reconcili- ation : and if there be any of either fide, that have not attained to this 01 the like fpirit, I look on thsm as of a lower form of Godlinefs; and on endeavours and a&ings contrary to this way of Peace, to be no part of their Godlinefs, or any evidence of tneir Converfion • though I will cot fay, they arc therefore ungodly or uncon- verted. Oueft. Why do not Nonconformifts preach up Peace and Unity, and Obedience to Supe- riors? Ayjfw. You tell us t^at the Nonconformifls bold it their duty to declare the whole Counfei pf God} and they tell us that 'tis their duty to pray for Magistrates, and to obey their lawful Commands for Confcience-fake ; and therefore! 'tis but Charity to judge they will not be want- ing in what they arc convinced of, is their puty, If there be any that fovv the Seeds or Tares of pivifionand Difobcdjence, whether in private Meetings, or publick Congregations ; I fay con- cerning them, O my Souly comt notthoti in,to tfceir fecrets, feretS) tint* tbfir Ajjemblies be not thott uuitgd ; yet there are, I fear, who ay peace, peace, when there is no peace, but war in their hcaits; all the Peace and Unity they intend and endeavour, after, is but to bow all to their own Bent, Ways, Opinions, and Sentiments ; and to break all thofe whom they cannot bend. Some there are, who with much pretended Zeal, cry, and that a- loud, for obedience to Magiftrates and Laws, and aft more out of policy and felf-inteiefts, than Confcience ; making thefe but as ftalking-horfcs, the better to come near, and to (hoot at then own Game ; thus taking vengeance on their own fuppofed Enemies, whihi they feem to do God and his Vice-geient fervicc : Hereby breaking the whole Law of God, pretending the obferva- tion of the fifth Commandment} and that funda- mental Law of our Peace and happinefs, the && of Indempnity, whilft they pretend Zeal to the A&of Uniformity : Elfe what's the rcafon that they fcldom or never preach but upon that fub- je&, when as it fufficeth by the Canons to treat of it four times a year. For my own part, I ac- knowledge and profefs 'tis a duty to preach obedi- ence to God and his Vice-gerent, both to be obedient ourfelves, and to teach otheis alfo this duty by Precept and Example : Yet I muftcon- jfcfs, -I do not think they do all things decently and in order, who always preach up the Duty of the people at Coun,nor they that piesch the duty pf Rulers in the Country. S* as it was abhorred and de? clarcd againft by the Presbyterian Minifters, and others, in City and Country, from Pulpit and Prefs ; fo it was (that I know of) never under- taken to be juftified by any Miniftcr in print, but by J. G. that oizziGotiah and Champion of the Arminians. And the Presbyterians^ yea, thofe who were Comxiiflioners for the View of the Li- turgy? Declare in one of their Papjrs to his Ma- jefty, That tilt the Covenant wot decried as an A l- manackjotit of date, and its Obligation tafyn td be nitlly that oiiom Fail could never have been perpe- trated againft your %oyal Father, nor y Mr Majeftj fo hng expfilfed from your Pominions, [7J] Q«ejl. Do the Nonconforming- Minifters call thofe Moral Preachers who preach obedience to ihe Moral Law, and the ncceiTity of good Woiks ? Anfw. He that rightly divides the Word of Truth,, muft preach Law and Gofpel both ; Mo- ral as well as Evangelical Duties ; yet 'tis beft to preach the Law as it was firft delivered in the hands of a Mediator. Blame them not if they preach frequently the Gofpel, and the great love of Chrift tofcnfible Sinners, becaufe the love of Chrift conftrains us to love him again ; 'tis the Loadltone of Love : Nothing, they fay, is more eafie, than to love him that loves us; and the Apoftle John tells us, That we love God, becaufe he firft loved us. But 'tis not very long fince Pu- ritan Preachers, as they were nick-named, were charged to preach nothing but Hell and Dam- cation. Quejl. Do Nonconforming-Minifters ufe to preach Comfort to ungodly Sinners, refolving ftill to live ungodly ? Anfve. No, by no means : The Tresbyteri&ns. and others ufed to declare againft ^Antinomi- anifm i and to preach Repentance towards God, as well as Faith in our Lord Jefus Chrift ; to him that was feniible of fin, and weary of it, and that mourned for it, they were willing to preach glad Tydingsof Remiffion, and Reconciliation : They were and arc Enemies both to preemption and [7tf] and defperation, and fcek to fave Souls from pe« rifhing cither way : They arc ordinarily fiift Bg- anerges'Sy then Barnabas's ; and feck fiift and molt to wafh the infide of the PIattcr> than the outftde ; fiift they aim to cleanfe the Heart, then the Hands : They prefs men firft to fcek God in prayer with their whole heart for pardon and grace, and then direct them how to pray (whe- ther with or without a Book in private) as {hall be moil expedient for them ; they deny (thofe tnat I converfe withal) that they difiwadc any from the ufe of the Liturgy or Common Prayer, This indeed is a Maxime with them in Religion, Qj4oicornonfachnonfi\ ; and that the devotion or the Soul, is the foul of Devotion, Qnefl. In cafe a perfon be truly troubled in Confcience for his fin, to which is he to be lent for Comfort ? To the Law, or to the Gofpel ; to his own Obedience or Good Works, or to the Obedience of Chrift ? Anfw. The ordinary method of Cure, is firft to fearch the Wound to the bottom, and then to apply healing Remedies ; firft to pour in Wine, and then Oyl, Our Phyfitians ufe firft to purge or vomit their Patients, and then to give Cor- dials : So fpirituai Phyfiiians, till the Patient be truly and rightly fenfible of his fins, they fend him to the Law, for by the Law comes the knowledge of fin, the horrid nature and demerit of it J but then for Comfort, they fead him to the the Gofpel, to this foveraign Balfom ; yea, they pour on them the Oyl of Gladnefa, upon whom they perceive has been the Spirit of Heavinefs : They fay not, Phyjitian healthy f elf $ but rather fend them to the Great Phyfttian, by whofe (tripes We and they are healed : We dare not truft in our own Righteoufnefs, but in the Lord our %ighte* onfnefs. Queft. Do not Nonconformifls, as they defire liberty fiom the Impofitions of Men in the Wor- ship of God, fo preich up jiberty from the Com- mandments of God in the Courfe of their Lives ? Or at leaft do they not lift up their Voice like a Trumpet, when they publifli the Gofpel ; but oncly fpeak in a fmall and ftil] Voice, when they treat of Obedience to the moral Law ? Arijw. 'Tis an unjuli Calumny caft on the Protcftants by the Papifts, That they are Sollfi- dians, and againft good Works : And 'tis an un- charitable cenfure of the Nonconformifls by the Author of thz Debate, that they do not preach obedience to the Moral Law, as well as Faith in Chrift; and the Duties of the fecond Table of the Law, as well as of the firft. Whoever reads the AJfemblies Confejjion of Faith, their Larger and Shorter Catechifm, Mr. Dod on the Com- mandments, Mr. Anthony Bttrgeft his ViridicU Legis , &c may fee clearly that the Nonconform mips tie not Libertines, (though they defire fome liberty) and that though they pray to be delive- red [7«] red and freed from humane ceremonial Laws, (as God has freed them from the Ceremonial Law 6f his own making) yet they are not Antinomy and that isDr* Fuller in his Church- Hiitory, who relates, that it was complained of to the Sub-corn' mittees for Religion in Parliament) (of which Sub- committee the Biihop of Lincoln,' the Bifhop of Armagh, the Bi(hop of Durham, the Biihop of Exeter, Dr. Sam Ward, Dt. Hacket, Dr. Holdf- mrtb> and others, were Members ) that all the Tenets of the C ounce I of Trent ( abating only fuch joints of State- Policy againfl the Kings Supremacy , as were made Treafon by the Statute) Good works Cocaufesmth Faith in Juftification, private Con- fejjion by particular ennumeration of jtns } needful neceflitatc medii to Salvation ; that the Oblation (or, as othersy the Confumption of the Elements in the Lords Supper) holdetb the nature of a true Sfl- erifice r Prayers for the Dead, lawfulncfi of Mona- fiical VewSi the grofi fubflance ' of Arminianifm, and fome danger om points of Socinianifm had been preached or printed by fome amongst us, Queft. If it (hould be proved true, that the high Conformifts (hould warp fomwhat from the Doctrine of the Church of England ; yet have they not all, and alwayes been conftant and firm to the Government to King and Parliament, and great admirers of what their Superiors do and fay? G 4 K fo' 18* 1 r Anfw. Dr. Uejlyn tells us that he cannot reckon the death of King Edward the fixth, for an infelicity of the Cnuich of England^ for being\ (as he faith) iU frincifled in himfelf, and eafily en- \ din d to imbracefuch counfels as were offered to him A it is not to be thought but that the reji of the Bifhop-\ rickjy before Efficiently impverifhed muji havefolA Lowed Durham } and the poor Church left as defti-\ tute of Lands and Ornaments a* when fhe came into\ the world in hr natural watydneft. The above- named Dr. Heyljn, in his Hiftory of the Refor- mation, chargeth the Grandees at Court and ia the Parliament of thofe times, with fuch vice* and crimes> as our Adverfaiies may make ufe c£ to blemifh our Reformation. All which, with fome other confiderations> may give occafion to fome to think, that what the D;vil faid falfly and maliciouily againft Job, may,a little altered, be too truly, and without breach of charity, faid of fome high blades; Do they fear and honour the King and Parliament for nought ? Have they not made a hedge about them, and about their houftj and about all that they have on every fide ', and their S'ibftaxce is encreafed in the Land? But let but King and Parliament put forth their hand now t and touch all they have, and they would (if not for fear of pinifhment) curfe them to their face- Quest* Is there any other abfolute promife bwficics that of fending Chrift into the World ? Knfw. Yes, many; AstbatCw. p. p. not to drcwa C 8 3 } drown the World any more That of calling of the Gentiles, 6^.40. 10. The promlfe of the Conversion of the Jews, as is generally thoughr, Rom.11> The promifeof giving Chrift theif^- then for his inheritance y and the utterrnoft farts of the earth for his pojfeffion, Pfal.2. And that Ifa.53. He (hall fee his Seed^ he (hall prolong his days, and the p/eafttre ef the Lord (hall pr offer in his hands ; Tnat Chrift Iriall have a Seed to ferve him ; that Chrift fhall certainly and infallibly fa vefome ; and the Lord knows who are his : That he hath noc {hed his Blood in vain, like water fpilt on the ground ; that this glorious Head of the Church, Shall certainly have a Body in fome meafnie an- fwcrable and fuitablc to the Head, &c. Tne pro- mifeof Firft Grace is thought to be abfolute, / mil take away jour heart of. Stone, and give you a heart of Fleft?. Tis confefs'd, we are bid to con- vert and turn, and to come to Chriil:, and to make our felves new hearts ; and yet 'tis as true, that we cannot do any of thefe things of our felves, without Divine Atfirtance, and fpecial Grace : But this for our Comfort, That which i$ the matter of Duty in one place of Scripture, is the matter of a Promife in another : And again, That Gofpel-Commands are notonely iignifica- tions of our Duty, but Conveyances of ftrength to do our Duty. Qveft. Is not Mr. w. B. ibfurd in comparing -Gods people to Plate ? G Z Anf*. [«4] ' Anfa. I anfwer, There is Scripture- grounds enough to juftifie the calling of Gods people his Plate : for in Scripture they are called Cjods Jewels, or his peculiar Treafttre, Pfal.3.17. And obdurate wicked men are compared to Reprobate Silver^ jfVr.tf.30. Quest. May we not fay, That we come to the Promifes by Chrift ? An[vt>. In him are all the Promifes Yea, and in him Amen y 2C0M.20. As a woman hath a right to her Joynture, by fir ft taking the man to her wedded Husband ; fo Ghriftians have a right to the Promifes, and all good things, by taking Chrift firft for their Lord and Husband. Queft. Is fear the chief and principal motive of a Chriftian to Duty and Obedience, I mean the fear of punifhment ? Anfw. No : The chief and beft Principle is Love ; I look on them as of a lower form in Re- ligion, who onely fcrve God for fear of Hell: Although this fear is ufeful, yet 'tis not the prin- cipal motive to obedience in Gods Children. And this was the Divinity of former times. I do not hold it unlawful to fervc God for fear of pumfhmenfj nor hopes of Reward; yet this I fay, That fear alone fpeaks a man a Servant, and love fpeaks a man a Son : And thofe are the beft Servants to Vertue, who fcrve virtutis amore, fortheloveofVertue. A man may hate the good he.doih, and love the evil which he doth not do«> If If then a man do that which Is commanded nacerly or chiefly for fetr of Hell, is he necetfa- lily one of Gods beft Servants? I think not; be- caufe he may at the fame time hate the go od he doth, and love the evil he abftains from. As for working with an eye to the Reward intuitu mer- cedis, 'tis juftifiable and commendable j 'tis that which (JWofes did, He6.11.26. and which our blctTcd Saviour did ; and it furficeth the Servant to be as his Mailer ; Chriftians to be Follower and Imitators of Chrift their Lord and Ma- tter. QHeft. Are good Works ncceffary to our Ju- ilification? Debate, p. 13. Anfw. The Church of England in her nth Article, teaches her Children thus : We are righ- teous before (jod, one ly for the merit of the Lord our Saviour Jefm Chrift by Faiths and not for our own Works or Defervings ; Wherefore that we are jufti- Hed by Faith onely, is moft wholfom DoUrine, and very full of Comfort^ &c And in her Book of homilies, Tom. 1. pa5.17.Edit.1623. thus : Ju- stification is not the Office of man y but God : or man lannot make himfelf righteous by his own Works, neither in part nor in whole ; for that were the gr em- eft arrogance and prefumption of Man, that Anti- thrift could fet up again ft God. Q*eft. Hath the Doctrine cf the Imputation if Cnrifts Rightcoufncfs for our juflification, >een the Doctrine of oui Churchy and the prirre )o&oriof it ? G 3 Arty* r An[v>* The Papifts indeed call it with a jeeri Putative Rigbteoufnefs. And 'tis ftoricd of Popidi Bifoop , lighting accidentally on that place, %o m. 4. 6. Even at David alfo defer ibeth the blejfednefs of the man unto whom God imfuteth Righteoufnefs without Workj) &c threw away the Bock in great difpleafure, and faid, OPaulel an tu quoqtte Luther anus faUm es .? O Paul, art thou alfo become a Lutheran t *Ti$ obfervcd by 1 Conforming Minifter, that the Apoftic Paul mentions this grace of Imputed Righrcoufncfj ten times in the 4th chapter to the Romans; and Bifhop Andrews in his moft excellent Sermon on that Scripture, Jehova Juftitia noftra. His n*m\ Jhall be called^ The Lord our Right eoufntfi ; and Br. Downham y in his Trcatife of Juftification,ihong ly alTeits it : And the Dodors of the Chair for J long time, have taught the fame Doctrine. Sc -v that now I thould think that Doctor, though in the Chair 3 to be befides the Cu{hion,tbat teacha btherwifc. Queft. Is the difference betwixt the Old and New Covenant this, that the Old Covenam made with the Jews propounds temporal rewards! v and the Gofpel propounds eternal ? and barl' 11 this been the Do&rine of the Church of England and of the prime Doctors finte the Reform* tion ? Dekp.26. Anfa\ The 7th Article of the Church of E*g laid iaitti thus % The Old Ttflament is not con. tram [ ?7 ] J trary to the New. Both in the Old and Nero Tefta- :ment everUfling Life is offered to mankind by Cbrijl, Iwho is the only Mediatoar between God And man ; hvherefore they are not to be heard which fay, that At he old Fathers did look, only for tranfitory promt fes* Queft. Do not Noncohformifts abufe the Ipeople in their preaching, by preaching in the JApoftoiical language. That which we have [een and heard, declare we unto you ? Anfw. I think the Prophet T)avid doth not a- bufe himfelf and others, when he faith, O tasle and fee that the Lord is gracious 5 Nor the Apo- i\\c Paul the Ephefens, when he tells them that Jefus Chrift came and preached peace to them that were near<> and to them that were afar off ; Nor the Galatians y when he faith, Jefm Chrijl was evidently fet forth, crucified amongst them : Neither doth Job juggle, or caft a milt before his own and o- thers eyes, when he faith, with thefe eyes he fbali fee his Redeemer; although we take the iaterpre- tation of Mercer on the place, of his Recovery here. What though the Apoftles law our Sa- viour in theflefh, beard his Sermons, and con- vened daily with him ; may not Chriflimf novv-a-dayes fee him with an eye of Faith in his Word and Sacrament? and hear him when he fpeaks to us in the Writings of the Apollies, as it were from Heaven, and by themoutbes of his Minifters upon Earth ? Muft no paffage or phrafs of Scripture be ufed but in its tuft iignification ? G 4 fuu [88] fate we ate that many places of the Old Tefta- ment ate iifed in the New, chiefly oi only by way of accommodation. Qttefk. Do the Nonconforming- Minifters a mule and abufc the people when they fpeak of Spiritual defeitions? Anfti. Whofopleafetoiead Mr. Perkjns hif Cafes of Confcience, Mr. C*pel on Temptations; and Dr. Sibbs his Souls Covflitt $ although they never faw Dr. Goodwyn> may fee a Child of Light walking in Varkn^'j And in fuch a cafe I would not fend for, a$ Saul did, one to play upon an Inftrumcnt • Nor* with a Conformilt Minifter, that I knew, when his Daughter was in trouble of mind for her fins,counfel her to play at Cirds; Or with another, how learned foever they be* fend them to a Theatre } but either to fome able Miniftcr, or to Prayer & the Promifes, advifmg them to put them in fuit in the Court of Hea- ven ; for 'tis God only that kills and makes alive % he wounds and he heals : In his presence is life $ and his withdrawing or deferring of the foul^ though for a time only* is at thefbadow of death. If our bleiTed Lord on the Crofs cryed out, My God-) my Gdd y why hast thou forfaken me ? what fo great wonder, if a Chiiftian Under the Crofs, oft-times complains, Why hideft thou thyface, and 1 am troubled ? Is the Servant above the Matter? ifthefe things be done in the green tree* what jh all 'be 'done in the dry f Que/? [8 P ] Queft. Are the Nonconformifts Time- feiveis? Veb.f.65. A»fu>. If fo, why do they not ferve the Times now, and themfclves of the Times ? Certain it is there tie fome now Nonconformifts, whofe confeiences would not permit them to ferve the Times in Brad(haw's or O. CromvoeVs dayes ; di- vers who were tum'd fcut for not taking the En- gagement,, have fince been outed for Noncon- formity ; They could not ferve the Times then> and the Times will not ferve them now. Can ye think we are fuch Bedlams as to chufc forrow and fuffering, Bonds and Imprifonments, when we might fo cafily efcape all fuffcrings , and have all* honourable imployment in the Mini- fhy, and fome of us (perhaps ) preferment and advancement like cur Brethren that conform. Queft. Do not the Nonccnfoimifts call the Liturgy, Broth? Anfw. I never did fo, and I approve not any thacdo; yet poiTibly the expreflion might fir ft beoccaiioned from that faying of Bifhop Ban- ners^ formerly mentioned upon our retaining fome part of their Service-Book and Ceremonies, // theytafte of our Broth , they may one day come to eat of our Beef. And here let me tell a ftory : I have heard that a conformable M'mifter invited a Friend, or Friends, to his Houfe, to cat a piece cf Collet-Beef ; fo he called Beef roafted on the Lord't-day, and kept ufually cold in the Houfe houfe all the week • with allufion> 'tis to be fup-^ pofed,to the Rubrick, which ordinarily enjoyns the Collecl: for the Lords day, tobe.rcad all the week after. I think this Conformifts Beefy alike unfavory expreflion with the Nonconformity Broth. Queft. Do not Nonconformlfts generally re- proach and revile the Conformable (Jliinifters for their reading the Gommon- Prayer, and for their Grave and Decent Habits which they wear ; and do not Nonconforming- Ministers teach them fo to do > Anfw. If any there be who fcorn or mock at grave, godly, fober perfons, for their reading the Liturgy, or for thsir Caffocks, Girdle?, and the like, Takf them Donate for me. Suppofe fome few rude perfons fliould flight a Mlnifter for his CalTock, are there not others that mock and jeer at thofe that want the Canonical Habits ? How many are there that preach notjexceptthey have a fling at Nonconformifls ? Are not Nonconform mifis fcorned and fcoffed at on the Stage, from the Prefs and from the Pulpit ? How are they jeered at, and made a May-game, by this in name Friendly (but really Unfriendly) Debate. 'Jb to be thought the Author of it did never ferioufly coniider that faying, Non eft major confnfio quam ferii&joci; and that other of my Lord Bacon, That it is an inlet toAtheifm t$ bring the exercije of Religion into contempt the perfons of fandry Pred* chert* [pi] cherf. For my part, I cftecm it a point of feri- oul and folid Godlinefs, to love, honour, reve- rence Piety> Gravity, Leaming.and true Worth> whether in Conform'tfis or Nonconformifls : I look upon it as no good evidence that a man is of the higher form in Religion, to magnifie and multiply the weaknetfes or mifcarriages of a few DiiTenters, to the vilifying and reproach of all or the generality of them. As 'tis an argument of an unjuft Steward, inftead of an hundred to write fourfcore or fifty, fo is it of a falfe and bad Accomptantj inftead of twenty tofet down fifty, fourfcore, or an hundred. 'Tis the method and way of God, whom we ought to imitate, to over- look the failings of them that are fincere, to obferve and note the little good he fees in his fcrvantSj and to pafs by or over-look the evil : So the holy Scripture tcacheth us in the cafe and carriage of Sarah to her Husband ; of %abab concerning the Spies • and of the Egyplan Mid- wives, Exod.i. 'Tis not the part of a Bee, but of a Flic (we know) and that not of the beft fort* to pafs over a goodly Garden of fweet Flowers, and at laft tolightonagall'd Back, or a heap of Dung. And 'tis but a dirty bufinefs to rake the Kennels, and throw dirt in the face of PafTen- gers. Que ft. Hath not the Author of the Debate dcneworthily> like a vigilant Watchman, forc- feeirg Danger to King and Kingdom, to alarm boih > I i B t! both? &* Debate, p. 188, iSp." ^4«/W. Fat be it from me to call the Author of the Debate) Doeg,Ijhmael y or Haman ; yet this I may fay, (without hazard of Truth or Modefty) That there is falfe accufation, mocking and fcof- fing in the Treatife ; and there may be fome- thing of Haman> or ambition, fufpe&ed to be in him, who would infinuate to hisMajefty, that 'tis not for his fafety, nor for the peace of his King- dom?, to fuffer thefe Jews, &c. When the bot- tom of all the uproar may be this, There is per- haps fome Mordecal in the Gate or in the Parifh, that will not bowdowa to him. And yet I dare boldly fay this, That the Enemy could not coun- tervail the Kings damage, if all the Nonconform mlfis were deftroyed, or banilhed .out of the Land. Whatafondnefs, folly, madnefs is it to ima- gine, that men that pretend Godlinefs> pra&ifc fobriety, and who are themfelves, and who have their Chefts, their All, in the fame Ship with his , Majefty and the State, (hould go about to blow it . v > up, or bore holes in ir, to (ink the Veflel, them- felves and all together ? It was the faying of Mr. Calamf (that difcreet, | honeft, pious Mr. Calamy) before he died, That he bad rather fuffer under a lawful Soveralgn, than be preferred under an Ufurfer. The Loyalty of the l^onconformifis hath been experimented now above feven yeais together, who notwithftand- rog [93] fig they have fuffered the lofs of their Place*, fallings, Livelihoods , yet in patience poiTefs heir Souls, and pray for his Majcfty and the Go- /ernment with all theii hearts and fouls* As br the high Conformifts, I may fay to them, vhen they boaft of their Loyalty, (confidering he great Honours, Profits, Preferments they njoy under his Majefty and the Church-Govcrn- ncnt) If you do good to them which do good to you, vhat thankhave ye ? What do ye more than others f Sinners alfo do the fame. Q»eft. Do not the Nonconformifts do what bey do, onely to a£t a part, or make a (hew ? If t bepotTible, to drain the Peoples Purfes, pre- ending Conscience, but being really moved by :arnal Reafons to their prefenc Opinions, Pro- eiTions, and Practices ? Anfrv. Some have better (if any have carnal) eafons for their Nonconformity : A hundred^ wo, or three hundred pound fer annum, may ikely weigh fomething with fome Conformifts oo, and might at leaft help to turn the Scales, fhen the Judgement was in ^uilibro : And if here be not fome weight in this with fome, that's the rcafon that Minifiers generally are lore conformable than their Parifhioners, who ave no fuch weight or byafs upon them ? As for heir Gains by their Nonconformity, I may fay hey have not the fifth part of what they had for- icrry ; no, not the Tythe of what the Ccnfcr- mifts •a u c [P4] nufts have : Some of them are forced to worl with their hands, to turn to fecular imployment. Ochers, who cannot work nor beg, if others did not work or beg for them, were in danger tc ihrve. Qjtefl. How could that man pretend Confci ence for his Nonconformity, that condemned the Common Prayer, and confeiTed he had never read it over in all his Life ? Anfw. Perhaps though he had not read it all over, he might have read fome of it, and liked notthetafteof it. Bat I put him, (if fuch one there was) with thofe hundreds that fubferi* bed and gave their Affent and Confent to it, and to all and every thing contained therein, beford ever they had teen the Book Authorifed by Par- liament ; it being at that time, if printed, yet not fent down into the fevcral Diocefies where thi were to teftifie their approbation of it. Qxeft. Arc not Nonconformist a fowr and (ac fort of Ghriftians, a Generation not at all San- guine , of Melancholy Tempers, morofe, anc but bad Companions ? Anfvo. They are not all fo> nor always fo, an< fome of them not at allfo ; and as good Friend and Companions as the World hath any. Thi Fogs and Damps are in the lower part of th< I Air and Earth, and the Clouds are in the middii li Region ; all is pure- and ferene, and always fo o< in the upper Region. Chiiftians of the lontf Form form, Conformifls or Nonconformists, are liable aft-timesto be under Darkriefs, and under the jower of Melancholy for a time : Yet as they ad- vance higher, the Weather is clearer with them $ md ordinarily the more perfect Chrtftian, the more o)ful Christian. Yet this may be laid for weep- ng Chriftians, they may have Joy in their rlearts, when there are Tears in their Eyes ; is the Sun fometimes fhines whilft it rains. "Da- ■;id y one of the greateft Mourners in Jfrael, wit- icfs his watering his Couch with his Tears, &e. vas yet the fwect Singer of Ifrael. Heavinefi ndnres for a J^ightj and Joy comes in the Morn- . And though Chriftians fometimes deny hemfelvcs, yet God doth never deny them any awful Delight; nor did God ever make Godly orrow to deftroy mens Bodies (though to help owardsthe Salvation of their Souls) I have heard hat Old Mr. IWobferved , 1 [hat if Godly Sor- ow fhonld have kitted any man, it might have mofl robably been Adam, (the first and none of the leafi * inner s) because of his Apofiacy from God, and Fall rom Happinefs, he and his Pofierity ; yet he lived 30 years* Qxtft. Do KJonconformifis teach, ThatChri- ians muft be ever fpeaking of God in confe- ence with men, or. with God in Prayer and Me- ntation ? Muft they have nothing elfc in their souths in all Places, Times, and Compa- res ? Anfw. Mr.Shepberd of New-England idvikth not to entertain good thoughts, if they prove a hindrance to a Chriftian in his particular cal- ling. And Mr. Carter , coming upon one of hi! neighbours, that was a Tanner, fuddcnly, anci finding him taughing of a Hide ; and the mam K Of! i excufmg himfclf for being found fo : the Mini- iter anfwered, / defire Jefas Chrifl may find me fo when he calls for me y or when he comes , that is bnfied about the workj of my catling. I grant it \i very commendable for perfons who have abili ty,and have time and leifure from bufinefs, anc are in fu table company, to be often fpcaking one to another of Chrifl: and of Heaven, and to ftii up one another to Faith, Love, and Good-works God's People did thus in the Prophet Matachy 6iycs>(Mal.2.) and they that did fo,are eitecm- ed God's Jewels ; but with us, at leaft by man} amongft us, fuch kind of perfons are as vilcL (though not fo common ) as the (tones in the D0 i ftreer. In other Religions they account of men j the more and the better, the more religious they $ fecm to be, and the more precife, ftii6t and pun- M! 6tual they are in the obfervation of the Rules o\ r ( their Religion : So the Papl/Isy fo the Turfy. p| .The Turfy account all Fools to be Saints : and v | many amongft us account all Saints to be Fools, Ni and the greater Saints the greater Fools* Quesl. Are not Nonconformists more precife^ than wife, in not allowing themfelves and otbers|j , the tfic delights of Playes and other diver tifments? Anfw+ Dr. Heylin in his Geography obferves that the Protcftmt Minifters in France are fo irait-laced as not to allow of mixt dancing. The Nonconformifts here are not all of this Judge- ment ; they did not, do not ufe to enquire be- bre perfons approach unto the Lord's Tables \ whether or no, where, when, or how often they lave danced ? whether they go to fee Come- dies, &c. I my felf have been asked whethec 1 Dancing was lawful ? I anfwered, Dancing was lawful ; but whether mixt dancing was, they ould tell better than I : If it was to them a mo- rive or incitement to evil, to them it was unl- awful, elfc I dare not condemn it as finful ; I will not make more fins than the holy Scripture, tnd the Light of Nature has difcovcred to be fo« As for Stage- PlayeS) ifthey were reformd and tcgu lated, fo as to have no curling or fwearing, lothing of lafcivioufnefs and wantonnefs, no- hing of impiety or prophanefs, no putting on )f Apparel not belonging to the fcx bythe A&- >rs> I (hould look on them as one of the bed Recreations ; only I would not have feeing of Playes be made a mans work or bufinefs,and that vhich (hould be but a diveitifment be a man's vhole imployment : But as they axe frequently nade and a&cd (if we may believe reports) they nuft have ftronger Champions than I to throw iown the Gantlct^oi take it up in their defence- H 'Tit *?is well known the Ancient Fathers of tfr Church, and fome reverend and learned men Sons of the Church of England have condemned them. Dr*%ejnoUs i Djctor of the Chair at Ori fori, (and we are told a Confotmift too) wroti againft them ; Dr. Andrew ^Ivet ( Profcffor o Divinity, and Tutor to the Prince of Orange, anc one that remembred the condition of oui Sovereign, when in Exile, in his laft hours anc Prayers ) is no friend to them ; And Dr. F*r»« afterward Bifliop otChefter, offered to joyn wid fome Presbyterian Minifters , in declaring for | the fan&ification of the Lord's day, and againfl t Scage-playes in the late times. Yet as for thofc •,■: that go to fee them, I do not, I dare not there- 1:? fore judge them no Chriftians, or no good Chri- ftians, becaufe fometimes they are feen in the Theatre, though oftencr in the Church : I mufl confefs that that inference [I may fee a Picture, therefore a Play] is but weak and dark, and but r the foadow of an Argument : For thofe who - condemn fuch Reprefentations on the Stage> do t\ the like in a Picture ; that is, they damn lafci- «, vious & wanton Pictures, Books, & Songs as well |ji as Pl'ayes. Again, the feeing of a Picture good j ( or bad, hath not (I conceive) fuch a powerful in- fluence on us, as the acting or perfonating on the Sca^e bath ; We are not ufual'Iy fo arTe6ted : by reading of a Book as by hearing a Speech j tie voice and action fpeak loucfcr, and are oft-* ner fpp] heard^hir* a dumb /hadowr or a fiient piaufe ciowcver, to conclude this matter, I think the * Author of the Friendly Debate had much betrec ; * lave fpent his time in hearing or feeing of Pl*y.$, * ban in writing of that Treatife ; yea that he bis Sooks to the World? Anfr. As for Mr. T. w. I have heard that he lath written divers ufeful Books-} and Ifuppofs a that Book or Books criticifed upon, might lave been found matter as well as phrafes, and omc great as well as little things : and if a nan had a mind to carp and cavil at other mens vorks, as the Author of the Debate doth, he night pull fome of the Fathers by the Beards, tnd tell them alfo they have written very child- (hly. All men write not in the fame fiile and Dbrafe, or in the like method ; as all Cooks drefs not the fame joynt of meat with the fame tuce, and garaifa not the difh in the fame manner when they fend it up. And fome Rea- H z dei* [100] ders and Auditors like one way of writing c fpeaking • fome another; (elfe what need fuc variety of Gifts ? ) but ail tend to the Edifica tion of the Chuich. The Scholar is taken wit one way of preaching or writing, the Citize f with another, the Countryman with another Mr. Calvin, Mr. Parrel, Mr. Virtt ^ all three had their Excellencies, one in this way and man ner, and another in that : If the Doctrine whici is preached or printed, be found and wholforae what though the ftile and phrafc be not complea and polite? If thy meat be good and favory what though not fcrved up in a Lordly Difh? had rather have wholfome Food in an Earthei Platter, than Poyfon in a Golden Charger fuppofe all Conformijls have not the fame low opi nion of Mr. T. w. if it be true which I heard that one of them preached one of his Piinte< Sermons> and that a Citizen his Audiror, afte: Sermon went to him with a Thanh^you Mr. Wat (on for your pains. Qjteft. Doth not Mr. tv. preach and print dan gerous and poifonous Doctrines, fuch as tene towards Commotion, and difturbance of the pur> iick Peace ? An[#. If he do, I leave him to apologize foi bimfdf, I will be no Advocate in fuch matters t And if he doth, he is condemned by thofe of hi< own way, I mean our Brethren of the Congrega- tional Church; Twenty nine Miniftersof thai Judge [101] udgemcnt, tf to Church-Gorerment, being in nd about the City, publifhed a Renunciation od Declaration againft the horrid Infurre<5tion nd Rebellion a&ed by Venner and his Confede- ates, to which they fubfaibed their Names : In onclufionof which, they declare asfoiloweth, Ve ceafe not to four out our hearty prayers for a U forts f BUjfings, fpiritual and, temporal, upon the Per- tn and Government of his cMajesty, both in our Congregations , Families, and Retirements ; and brough Gods grace , according to our Duties, (hall ontinuefotodoeurfelves,and to perfwadc others hereunto; and to live quietly and peaceably, in all lodlinefs and honejly. And as to the Actings and lefolutions of Venner and his party, they fay, r he Instruments of Qruehj are in their Habita- ions. Curfed be their Anger > for it wot fierce ; and heir Wrath ^ for it veat cruel. And we each one fay, ) my Soul, come not thou into their Secrets ; unto heir Affemblies, mine Honour ', be not thou united : lut let God divide them in Jacob, andfeatter them n Ifrael. Mr. Bridge was not in Town then, »hich may be fuppoied the Reafon we find not lis Name amongft the Subfciibers. As for W. B. whether his Writings be fo faul- y as they are charged to be in the Debates, I :annot tell, having not read them ; but a Con^. foinuble Doctor told me, that he had feaiched them, and that the Author of the Debate bad icilt difingenioufly in his quotations of hjn?*l$¥. H 3 'Q*$. [102] Que ft. May not eveiy whit ar much be &i for trie Papifts, why they fhould be toleiated, \ to the publickexcrcifeof their Religion, as f< Nonconformist Do not they profefs all Loyah to his Majefty, and declaie againft all Rcbe • lion ? Anfe, The Papifts depend upon a forraig : Power in Ecctefiaftical AffaiiSjfuperiour (as the '" think) to his Majefty, And it was fubfciibed t k twelve Bifhops in Ireland, as follows: TH f; Religion u fuferflitiom and idolatrous, their Fait ' and BoUrine err onion* and heretical, their Church j i " refpetl of both, &4poflatical. Whereas the "Hot ' conformifts) whether Presbyters or Congregationifl. F agree with the Church of England in the Dc ! #rinc of Faith and Sacraments> differ not in an J" fabftantial part of Religion frotn her. Whi r the Papifts practice hath been, how dangerons t J* ht Civil Peace^ the Hiftory of England in Q *: Elizabeth's days, can tell uu That 'tis impojfi - ble for any Ration to be fret from Troubles or Trek r { fon, fo long as they fttffer Jefuites antongft then (7 faith Watfon in his Quodlibets. And that he an m his Order were not fo good and loyal as they pre J L tended? may be gucfled from hence, that he himf : felf was afterwards executed for Treafon. Moreover Papifts cannot, when they hav< u: pwcr ? long live without pcrfecuting Proteftantsj 01 ; faith a Reverend Doctor ; Hence may appea fhit we fee K.H.JII.oi France, flabb'd am tmtfd, becaufe he would not perfect*** them enough* o the Anfwer to the Papifts Apology ^ p.2 1. As for Quakers, they may fcem to be thz very pawn of the Ronrilh Emifiaries, profelyted by iem, but made more dangerous to MjgUtrates, od all Civil Society, by this one Principle that aey hold> viz,. That they ought to be guided and } all % not by the Scripture, nor according to the com- tand of the Civil tjtfagijlrate, or Spiritual Guides nd Pafiorsj but by any fudden Flafh or Light with- f them. I am not fatisfied to have & hand in the Execution of the Sanguinary Laws againft Pa- ifts, yet (hould be loth to try how Sanguine or ood natur'd they would be> if they bad power n their hands to execute the Writ De B&retico omburendo. If we may fay of them, (as they fe to fay of Fire and Water) They are good Ser- ums \ I am fure 'tis as true, That they are but ad Mafiersp Quefi. How can we agree to live quietly with hefe "Nonconform! ft s ? Are they not fo much di- vided from us in their Judgement, that they di« ride from us in their Language alfo; and in fine vouid bring all things into iBabel of Confu- ion? Cont.p.i. Anfw> The greater nambcr of them, Ipre- ume, fpeak as others do - y and conform to that Mdinary phrafe, Welly I thankjjod. If any when enquired of about their Health, fay, I am well, through Mercy ; they do but as the French Pio- H 4 tcftants teftantsdo; they arc finely fewm companfoi that fay fo commonly ; and I do not remembei one Minifter that ufeth to fay fo ? tbey that do 3 poffibly have recovered from fome ficknefs, 01 efcaped fome danger, which occasions themtc pfe this expreifton : But if you will be critical, fome think it a fign of a greater humility to fay, / am well through mercy ^ than the other, / am well IthankGod • However it is not lo liable tc exception as to fay, lam well f faith , as I hav« heard that fome Conformills do, although Bi^ fhop Sawderfon doth not approve of that lan- guage in common difcourfe. We do not hold it unlawful to ufe the name of God in our Salu- tations as Boaz. did ; and can fay and pray, God fave the King as heartily as your felvcs. I know no lfynconforming-M\r\& and the London Minifters (cited by the Author of the Debate in bis Continuation) all prove they were very ten- der of the breach of an Oath, defirous to keep Far from it themfelves, and to fave others, with Fear plucking them out of the fire ; and the prefent tj:&ed and deje&ed eftatc of the Nonconform^ s may teftific, that they are fuch as fear an Oath. The Presbyterians are bold to fay in one of thcif Papers to hisMajefty, That the Obligation of the Covenant upon the Confciences of the Nation, wa& not the rveakeft Infirument of his %eturn» As to your citations out of Mr- John Goodwyn and Mr. John L\lbornc % I fay there lyeth an Exception a- gainft the Witnefles in the Cafe ^ as I fuppofe you might fay, if their Tcftimonies were pro- duced againft the Hierarchy, Liturgy, and Ce- remonies. Quefi. What may be the caufe the Author of the Debate is fo fierce againft the Proteftation taken by the Parliament before the War, and which his late M*jefty excepted not againft when taken, although he was then at Whitehall ? Anfw. The true Reafon may be this; becaufe the Houfe of Commons put out an Interpretati- on, that by the Dottrinc of the Church of England, which they fromijed to maintain, they meant onely the Doctrine in opposition to Popery and Popijh Inno- vations, and did not thereby oblige themfeives or other s to the maintenance of the Difcipline and Go- vernment. [io An[w. Time was when they pleaded ftiongly, Wbcre tbe Word of a King is there is power : But lately when his Majefty published a Declaration about Ecclefiaftical Affairs* &c f then their note was changed $ That was no Law (they faid) and the King could not do it without the Parliament* And yet then the Houfe of Commons gave his Ma jetty thanks for doing it. Tiriie was when a Long Parliament was accounted by them a grie- vous Difeafe, and now it is the great Remedy. Time was when they cryed down all Parlia- ments ; now they cry up this. Whence comes this change ? I anfwer, The cafe is alter'd* quoth Plojden. Qucjl. Is tnis good Logick, or folid reafon- ing ; Mt.Lewes Hughes, Mr. Vicars^ Mr. Bridges did write thus and thus in the War-time ; Ergo, or therefore the Nonconformifts at prefent are all thus and thus ? Anfa [log] 'A»f#. I deny the Confequence, as the Au thor of the Debate would, and well might. If a man (hould argue thus : Mr. White fet out a Book of a hundred (which he called) Scandalous Minifters that were ejected by the Parliament : If we grant fome of thofe hundred were fcanda* lous, therefore all that were ejected in thofc dayes, were fcandalous. Or thus : They fay one fVattis ofGlottcefterpuhliftizd a Book of fcan* daloas words and deeds of perhaps twenty or thirty now Conformable-Mintfhrs ; therefore if fome of them were guilty, all that conform arc faulty in like manner. Qtteft. 1$ it an argument or evidence of emi- nent Godlincfs, and of extraordinary Charity, to charge thoufands with Errors or mifcarriages of half a dozen or half a fcore? Anfw* No. God, who is Love it fclf, would have fpared Sodom for the fake of ten righteous perfons. And furely our enemies when they arc ferious and fober, and their paffions not predo- minant, both of old and of late, might find (if they would look about) more than ten righteous perfons, godly, meek, modeft, charitable and peaceable among the Nonconformists. In the be- ginning of the Reformation) there were a fort of oth We> and our Brethren Conformi§ls> are able to wipe off that foul afperfion ; and fo are the Nonconformists of thefe dayes, the dirt that is thrown in their faces by the aforefaid Author, [f any have called Conformifts Egyptians, Babf- loniansy Canaanitcs> Anlichriftians^ov the like, let it not be charged on thofe that difapprovc and condemn their fayingj. If any fpeak in the Clouds> and you fancy they challenge to them* felves a power by Prayer to rain down Blood upon us, let it not be charged upon them that live quietly and peaceably in the Land, & teach men io to do by their life and doctrine, if they preach at all, If there be any man that defigns by preaching or otherwife, to throw the Nation into War and Blood again, I Willi he may pro- phelie in Sackcloth ; And when he pretends to pour out Vials of Wrath, his threatnings may be like water fpilt upon the ground* Que ft. Do nonconform]}* look (hortly to fhut Heaven, and turn Waters into Bloud ? t. Anfw* Mr. Parker o{ l^w- England printed a Book on Daniel s Vifions and Prcpheiies, Anno \6\6. and according to him there will be no (hutting of Heaven, no turning of Waters into Blood* at leaft no putting off of the VVitneffes Sackcloth (which faith our Author (Contin. ofFr. J>tb.f,\q*') Mx t mB. now expe&s) till the year par x8?6\ when we (hall be all, Conformift •sad Nonconformists, at peace in out Graves. If MuW.B. difcourfeof fuch Prophecies in hi* *■ Sermons, I tffure you he and one more are all that I can hear of, that meddle to preach on fuch fubjstts. I am cold, Thofe that preach in pri- vate, preach Faith and Repentance, and meddle not with matters relating to the Government ei- ther of Church or State. And I was lately ask- ing a prime Nonconformift,and an able Preacher^ what be faid to that Objection in the TtcbatCy that the Nonconformifls did not f reach up Obedience to cMagiftrates ? He very zealoufly and confident ly replied , They did it> and that more than the Conform} fis themfehes. Quest. Do not the Conf ormifts, fome of them meddle fometirrus with the interpreting and ap-* plying phrafes and notions they meet with in the Revelations ? Anfw. Bifaop Williams , Bifhop of Ojjorf, wrote a Book to prove the Long Parliament Antichrift ; and he or another made Oliver Crom* reel Antichrift ; and Dr. Fuller in his Church-HL ttorj, writes of one that obferved that the Cove* nam had in it the Number of the Bcaft, One hundred fixty fix; confifting, as he faid, of jutt fo many words. Queft. Were not the old Nonconformifls much better then thofe in our days ? & Anfw* Their Nonconformity did not coft them ■[1*1] them fa much as it doth us ; and in the times they lived, they were likely accufed as we are now t When we are as they now, realty (as well as Le- gally) dead, it may be we may have a good word ilfo. In Queen Elizabeth's diys the Nonconform mfts were not more pliant or complying, thin :hey are now* There were not the Tythe of the Vlinifters then ejected, to what fince. There *ere more bitter Books put out then againft the hierarchy, than are now. If I mif-remember jot, the Nonconformist gave the firft Charge hen, but now-a-days we are alarumM and af- aulted once and again, and no man appeared wblickly to defend our Principles or Practices. Afe are loaded with Reproaches, and many grie- vous and heavy things laid to our charge, and no nan for a long time in our name in print fo much ts pleaded Not Guilty, and offered to Traverfc he Indictment, orputhimfelf upon the Tryal of lis Country. Say not therefore that the Non- onformifts of former times - were better, more )eaccable, more model* then thefe. If any man, though in the heat of his paflion, nd in the heat of the War, have called the Con- ormijls Gentiles , Uncircumcifcd, Pbiliftines, zgyptians) Babylonians, the Brood of the Serpent, nd have denied pardon of fin and Heaven to nem becaufe of their Conformity, I think he mght to repent of fuch hard flyings, and uncha- ritable [112] titable Cenfurel of his Brethren and Fellow-fei vants> and to bring forth Fruits meet for Repen tance for the time to come, w*. To lay a Law c Love and Kindnefs upon his Tongue and Pen, long as he lives. 'Tistobe hoped the num ber of thofe that had fuch unbridled Tongue and Pens, was very fmall ; the inftanccs yoi bring of fuch intemperate heats> and irregula zeal, are taken out of the Furnace of the lat War ; and that too, after the fire had been rake up in Aihcs by many years peace , and full quenched by the A6t of Oblivion and Indempni ty. If We had a mind to recriminate and retail ate, we could repeat much foul Language, anc bitter reviling fpeeches, by fomc of your vva; agiinft us alfo. But thefe are not the method of Peace. I defire therefore that all fuch mat ters may be forgiven and forgotten on both fides and remembred onely 01 chiefly by the Anchor and Abettors of them, that they may, if thej have not already, repent of them more than in Dull: and A(hes. Que ft. Did not the Scots in Ireland mite to their Brethren in Scotland to fend over Minifters to them, in fuch langu*ge,as if they thought there had been but little of Religion amongft them in >that Countrey, during the Reign of the Bi- (hops ? C. Anfp. There might be many dark Corners in Ireland for want of Oyl to maintain Lamps, prea- ching £hing Miniftcrs I mean, iuch as ftiould be like fohn Baptift, burning and fbining Lights amongft them. The Scorilh Presbyterians, if they be like their Brethren in England, had a Reverend cfteem of Archbifhop Ufher, and the Biftiops of Ireland^ for the Info Articles of Religion, and their zeal againft the toleration of Popery there* Who or what wis the catufe of the fearcityof able Miniftcrs> except want of Maintenance* and fear of the Iriih Pipiils, I know not $ but confident I am, the Bifhops of Armagh and Ar* daghwetc not, if any other Bilhops. Qjteft. Have not the Nonconformifts a high conceit of themfeives, and thofe of their own way, and a low efteem cf all others for Religi- on and Godiinefs? Doth not Mr. Baynes fay, There is more of God and his Religion in fome one Congregation of afilenced Minifler, than in all the Bifhops Families in England ? And doth not Dr. i/imes approve that of Mr- Baynesf An[#4 I have heard that Dr« Ames had fo much charity for Corvimti y that he faid, He did not doubt but to meet him in Heaven : Why then Mr. Zfa/flttpaffeth) and Dr< Ames approve thfuch a fmart Cenfurc on the Bifaops Families, I can- not tell* Yet 'tis not to be imagined that Mn P. Rayne s meant that the Bifhopi had no Religi- on in their Families ; If fo, I cannot commend his Charity* I think this is a fure and clear truth, That neither Bifhops nor lilenccd Minifteis can I be be hid to have all Religion or no Religion : mongft them and their Followers. I hold a Mc nopoly in Religion as unlawful, asfome hav thought thoCc in the State illegal. Never ch left it muft be confcffedjThat the Articles of Vi fitation, or the Injunctions of the Great Apoftl St. Paul, are Canonical : *A Bijbop mnB rule h own Honfe weil ; for if a man know not how to mi bis own Houfe y how fhallhe take care of the Churc of Cod ? i Tim. 3. 4, f . He that writes the Lif of Archbi{hop#/for, tells us, That he had fou times a day Prayer in his Houfe ; that there wa an hour fpentin Catechifing once a Week, viz, every Fryday; that he had on the Lords day in th< Evening the Seroion which he preached in the Morning, repeated in his Chappel by one of hii Chaplain?. This was the way to have a Churcr in his Houfe- All Biftiopsdo not write after thij Canon> nor this Copy. I know a Minilter, learned, fober, and zealous Conformift, that a£- ter he had been with bis Diocefan, at his Houfe or Palace, to fubferibe ; came home with a fad heart, and profeffed it was not for any thing he had done, but for the prophanefs and diforder he obfefved in the Bidiops Family amongft his Servants. Tis to the great commendation of the prefent Arcbbiftiop oiCanterbHty^ that which is reported of him, That he keeps* good Houfe ; thit is, in Bifhop Goodmtns Diale<5> hefpend* Church-Means in a Churchij manner : And that he J he kzeps a well-govern'd Houfe, allows not De- 4 bauchery ; if a Servant be drunk once, there's no place for a fecond Error. If fo, it muft be ac- knowledged that th-'re is Difcipline ia that J School, where nothing faves but a frimum tent- J™' Qj*e{l. Doth his Majefties Coronation- OatH J to protect the Bilhops and their Priviiedges to his power j (as every good King in bis Kingdoms Jtn right ought to protect and aefend the Bifliop? Jand Churches under theit Government) hinder v bis Majefty, that hermy not regulate the Juris- diction of Bifliops, or rerrtove the controverted Ceremonies out of the Church ? Anf*. HcarMr.^r^, one whom the Author of the Friendly Debate calls a difcrcet Presbyte- rian : Toe King % faith he, « [mrn to maintain the haws of the Land in force at his Coronation • and fet 'tis not unlawful after to abrogate any y upon the motion, or with the confent of his Parliament. The King is bound to maintain the Rights of the Clergy, tfhilft they continue fuch ; but if any of their Rights be abrogated by jufl Power , he Bands no longer en- gaged in that particular. If any Priviiedges of the Clergy, prove prejudicial or contrariant to the Laws and Liberties and Priviiedges of the People", which the King is bound to maintain \ the King may lawfully relieve his other Subjects, by patting fuch Bills as may take away fuch Pri- viiedges. His MUjefties Oath firft made to his I 2 Sub- Subjects in general, being lawful, cannot be voided oi fuperfeded by his after-Oath to the f 1 Clergy. And as for the Laws about Ceremo- nies, thsy are not like thofe of the Medss and ferfianS) unchangable ; but may be changed 3 and the Rites and Ceremonies now in ufe, may be abolifhed by the fame power by which they were here eftablifned. Q*eft. Did the Nonconformists generally make Addietics formerly to Oliver Cromwtl and %icb*rd Cromml ? Anfw. For my own part, I never f made any Addrefs.to O. C. or R. C. And the onely Addrefs that the Presbyterian- Ministers of the City of London, made to O. C. was for the laving the Life of Dr. Hemt. As for AddreiTes to R. t. divers Now-Conformifis as well as Nonconformifis, did joyn in them, as they did alfo generally to General CMonk. for a Free Parliament in Order to his MajeftiesReftauration. Quefl. Are not all Laws once made, rigorouf- ly to be put in execution nccelTirily, and efpeci- ally Laws concerning Ecclefnttical Arfaiis? Anfrv. Laws that are lawful and neceffaiy to the Ejfe or Being of the Church or State, are doubtlcfs to be put in-execution ; notfo thofe always, that tend to Order and Decency. Su- preme Governours may, upon juft occafion, for- bear inflicting the Penalties upon Offenders a- gainii penal Statutes. Yea Excommunication, that' [»7] that Great Church^enfurcy may be fufpended, when the major part of a Church arc infected with fome Errour, or are guilty of fome fcandi- lous offence , the end of Laws Eccleiiaftical and Civil, being the peace of Church and State ; where the execution of Laws may occasion more harm than good, more difquct than peace, there the fupreme Power may for a time wave the ex- a£ and rigorous execution of tbem. His Ma- jefty in his Declaration to all his loving Subjects, Dfcemh.26.i662' publifaed by the Advice of lis Privy Council, conceives the power of dif- penfing with the Penalty (upon thofc who living peaceably do not Conform) to be inherent in bim. Some Laws are made in tcrrorem, like Hods in a School. Tis not intended that every Offender and every Offence (hould be prefently punifhed, according to the utmoft feverity of them. The Common Law in fome Cafes feems to need a Chancery, to moderate the rigor of if, eft that [ummiim jut) prove [ttmma injuria. He Tvho will not allow his Majcfty to favc fome by its Prerogative, who ate caft by the Law, robs bim of a principal Flower of his Crown, his very Crown and Glory, and that is, His CLE* M E N C Y. Que ft. Were not the Old Puritans, as they jfed to call the No neon for mi /is. Enemies to the Kings Supremacy ? jinfw. In a Trcatife of Learned Mt.Brddjhaw 9 I 3 wb<£ [iiB] who wrote of Juftification* there is a Piotefti« p tion by them made of the Kings Supremacy, ir thjClc Words : We hold and maintain the fame Au- thority and Supremacy in all Caufes 7 and over al I Perfons, Civil and Ecclefiaflical^ granted to Qj*eet \ Elizabeth* to he due in full and ample manner « (without any limitation or qttctllficatiqn) to the King t and his Heirs and Succejfors for ever, l^either * there^ to our knowledge, any one of us but had ft been mofi willing to fubfcribe and fwear unto th f fame, according to form of Statute* And we defir R( that thofe thatfball refufe the fame, may bear then \) own Iniquity* di Quefi. Were not the tfonconformijls in forme! \ jfip&es difobedient to the Laws? And did the} not refufe to conform our of humour and fluty- bomnefs, and not out of Gonfcience ? Anfw. The fame Mr. Bradfhaw in the famj k Treatife, protefts in their Name, asfollovvetb We never refufe d Obedience to any haws or Com. vyandments of the King or State whatfoever y bu\ onely to fitch a* we have proved y or are ready to prove if we might be heard, to be contrary to the Word o\ God. And we are ready to take our folemn Oath before the Throne of Juftice, That the onely Cauf pf our refufal of Obedience to thofe Canons of thi Prelates for which we are at preffntfo extremely af* fi.ttedy is meer Confcience, and a fear to fin againsl God. And if by due form of Keafoning y we ma t be convinced in our Confciemes of the cantrary^ wt an l< wi ** mlhng as any Subjetls in the %eatm to ohef ttd conform, Quesl. But is it at ail material what the ^onconformiftstwzn ? are not our prefcnt Non- onformitts guilty of taking God's Name into heir mouths backward and forward, and never >iu (h ? Vide Con ti n . p . 1 8 , Anfo. It was the conference of an Oath, and i care to prevent the great guilt of Perjury, that i|nade Dr. HM, one of the late Affcmbly, when Ji/ice-Chanfeelor of Cambridge ^ and theUnivcr* a ity in thofc dayes? to inferc thofe explanatory :laufes in the Oaths of thofc who took degrees, II Viz. Jurabis teht&c omnia & reliqaa Acadtmt Statwa (quatenm ipfa ad te jptftatitj v el fide liter bfervajfe & obfervaturum.vel momtioneSy corrsUi- wes & p&Has dittornm Statmomm tranfgrefforibus ncttmbentesy fine centraditlione qttacunqne y humir r iter ftibiijfe am fubiturnm* m fialiter per gra- iam per Aeademiam concejfiim dijpenfatum tecum %erit,ficm Te Dens adjuvet, &c. and again, Se^ vatpts Cantabrigienfis decrevit & declaravit eos ow- ns qui momtiwibus, correttionibus & pawn St a- momm, he gum Dccretorum y Ordinationum, In- funclionttm & Lattdabilium Confuetudinum htt- \m Acidemia trangrejforibm, quovi* modo ItiCHm- bentibus humiliter fe fubmifermty mc ejfe y nee ha- bendos ejfe perjttrii reos. By which claufes 'tis manifeftj that either active or paflive obedience to the Statures, Orders and Cuftoms of the U \k I 4 vufitiefc [120] veifities did five from the guilt of Perjury, An< confident I am that 'tis the fear of an Oath tha is the chief ctufe why many fuffer the lofs o their Livings at this day. Queft. Is there not a good liddance of f( many Mr. Scruples out of the Church ? And v. there any want of able Preachers up and dowr in the Country now they are ejected? Anfw. My Lord Bacon in his dayes, though there was a fcaicity of able Preachers, and ye there were not the tythe perhaps of Miniften (ilenced then, to whit are now. And he though then that the filencingof the Minifters fortbcii Nonconformity was a punifiiment of the Peoplt rather than of the Mmifter. He conceived thet alfo that fuch Subfcriptions might have beer forborn as occasioned the hiencing of divers o thofe Minifters, Confab Eccl. Aff. Queft. What if there were wimy places mad< void by the ejc&naent of Nonconformist s, ma} not thofe places be well filled by Conforming Plvrallfts ? Anfw. My Lord Bacon faith, /* cafe the num her of able Minifters were fujfcient y and the valu cf the Benefices were fujficient , then Plaralitie, wsre in no fort tolerable. And at for Nonrefidents* except it be juft of ncceffarj abfence, he faith, it feemeth to be an abnfe drawn ont of covet oufnefl and jloih ; far that men fhould live of the Flocks they dq not feed) or at the Altar whereat the) 4» not ferve> u [121] id *r 4 thing that ean hardly receive jufi defence, Ani if to exercife the Office of a Pajior in matter of Word 1 and Dotlrine by deputation is a thing not warranted. So he in his Trcatife dedicated to King James a- fo bout Ecclcfiaft. Affairs. For my own put, I ii think the Poligamy of the Fatheis or the Patri- iq archs of old, as excufable as the Spiritual Poly. gamy ot many of the Sons of onr Church. And 51 to ferve Cures of Souls mceriy by Proxies and I Deputies (befides that it may feem to ftrcngthen i the Pope's plea for Uoiverfal Paftors) whilft fo many ftand idle in the Market-place, able and willing to take care of thofe Souls, is a thing I fliall not take upon me to juftifie, Let me add this alfo, that 'tis one Objection which hath been formerly made again!* the Li- turgy, That it occafions an ignorant, dumb>and alafcy Miniftry, but were it not for Pluralities and Non-refidency and infufficient Livings, there might be no place for fuch objection. The Author of the Debate tells us in bis Canti* nuation,p.$2$, that atfirftthe chief promoters of filmed Liturgies were renowned for their conftant and unwearied preaching every day in the week. > 4nd fomeeimes twice ; and oa probably thU was one thing that advanced the credit and efteem of Li- turgies informtr times : As I am perfwaded one great caufe why many do not efteem of the Li- turgy fo much now, is, that To many great Con- formiiis and flickkis for it arc Plurallfts and : [122] JtfonrefiieHts ; and diveis of them either preacH/' not at ail, or very feldom ; and then too,tbntc ^ of them preach againft Preaching, and fa*r f down the branch of that Tree upon which they ftaod fo high above their Brethren. Arid on the other (ide, thofe who fcrupie fome things in the Liturgy and Ceremonies, are fuch conttaof and zealous Preachers, and that when Bonds and Imprifonments abide them for their fo doing. Qjteft. But is it not indeed the Bond of the Covenant, the Scottish Covenant^ wherewith our En°Ufa Presbyterians have bound their Souls, the great or onely Caufe that makes fo many Nonconformists t Anfw. The Covenant mentioned was not the caufe of the War; the Battel at Edge-biU was fought before the Covenant came into England. And whereas the Covenant was entei'dinto in Forty Tv>o> and Forty Three, there have been Nonconfermijls ever fince Biftiop Hooper ^ and the Reformation in King Edward the Sixth's days. There are fome amongft the Covenanrersthat can conform to the Liturgy, and fubmit to Epif- copal Government. And the greater part of Nonconformifls Preachers at this day, never took the Covenant. Quest. What is the reafon that divers Non- conformiils read Logick in private Houses ? Is not this contrary to their Oath taken in the llai- vcrfity I Cont.y* ic. edit.4. Avfw x Anjw. I have consulted as able a? any in xhi eiUniverfities (and by their Offices as likely to know as any) about the matter, and am told ? That the Oath there prohibits the fetting up of another Univerfity in Opposition to the Univer- imcs> and Reading in order to the taking De- vices elfewhere. The woids are at Oxferd, They lThail not folcnnes Leftionts refttmere ; which doth not make Dr. Bmby perjured for initiating his Scholars force time in Logick before they go to the Univerfity. Nor the feveral ProfetTors at GrtJham-Colledge 7 who read as folemn Lectures furcly,as a TStonconformijl doth in a private houfe, Befidss, I hear but of one Nonconformist that at prefent doth teach Youth in that manner pri- vately. Queft. What fecuxity can his Majefty and the Parliament have, that Nonconformifts will not (under pretence of Confcience 01 Covenant) feditioufly endeavour an Alteration of Church- Government ; but that they will live quietly and peaceably in their-places. Anfe. They are ready to give the ancient Le- gal-Security, the Oaths of Allegiance and Supre- macy ; and that is more than the Papilis will do, and as much as is required of the generality of the reft of the Nation, notwithstanding their ha- ving taken the Engagement in the late times, which yet many Presbyterian", nov Noncon- formifts and Ejected MLnifteii) would never do, tho.'igh [ I2 4l though fome of them loft their Pltces for tbcii rcfufal. Moreover miny of them face hav< taken an Oath not to endeavour any Alteration! of Government in Church and State, and yet are not truftcd to preach publickly, much left to enjoy any Ecclefiaftical Benefice. And the reft that fcruple fome vvords or phrafes in that Oath, are yet ready, befidcs the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, to fwcar that they will live quietly and peaceably in their places., and not under colour or pretence of the Covenant, or any pretence whatever, endeavour by force, or fedicioufly and tumultuoufly, any Alteration of Government in Church and State. Queft. Is the A& of Uniformity , and the Ox- ford Ad, to be ftri&ly and rigoroufly preffed up- on, and executed on all tranfgreffors ? Anfw. If it be , then what will become of many Conformist who ufc other Rites and Cere- monies than what are by Law required ? and of them who ufc other Forms of Prayer then are there prefcribed ; and of all thofc Ministers that do not reade the Common-Prayer either pub- lickly or privately> morning and evening ; and fo thofe Le&urers who do not monthly reade their Aflent & Cont'cntPdv- And as for the Ox- ford A6t & Oith, I have heard from a very lear- ned perfon,a Conformiftjthat the Bifliops them- ftlves come within the compafs of it, as many as have not affentcd and confentcd, &c« as oft as they hey came within five miles of tbeii Sees, or any nber Corporation* This I fay > not to bring the Sifaops mtbin % but to bring others out of the each of that Ad ; or rather to cncline, if it nay be, our Fathers and Brethren to ufe their ntcrcft, with his Majefty and Parliament to rc- nove thofe Laws which are a Partition- wall bc- wixt the Conformifi & J{onconformft t Que ft ♦ But are not the 'fynconformifts finners md tranfgreiTors of the Divine Law, as oft as they withdraw from a&ual communion with the Church of England, being (as many of them con- fers) a true Church ? An[. Many of our learned Do6tors hold Rome to be a true Church ; as a Woman is a true Wo- man, though an Harlot • and a Man a true Man, though overfprcad with Leprofie. And yet being we cannot actually hold external communion with them, without either fubferibing to many falfe Tenets, or joyning in a corrupt and Ido- latrous Service, we withdraw from them without (in. Our withdrawing is not to be charged with (in or fchifm, although too we were the minor part who withdrew, and againft the determina- tion of a pretended Generil Councel. And I believe it would be a hard matter to prove that many of thofe Meetings, which are now com- monly called Conventicles, want any of the ef- fential requisites to a true Church, and yet do not think thcmfclvcs Schifma ticks for not hold- ing Inga&ual communion with them, becaufe no countenanced by the Law. And if a Legal Efta biifhment be abfolutely neceiTary to the beins of a trueChriftian Church, then there Was nc true Church at %ome till Con(iaritine 9 % dayes j which I fuppofe you will judge very untcafona- bletoaficrt. Qutft. 1% it pofltble there (hould be Unity without Uniformity in Rites and Ceremonies, ice. An[vt>. Yes. There is Unity artiongft the Pro- teftant Reformed Churches beyond theSeas,that follow Qalvln y and y£t divers forms of Prayer* and diveis Rites. The Author of the Debate will not take it well, if a man fhould not fay, there i* Unity at home atEongft Conformifts, and yet the Cathedrals and Country-Parifh-Churches differ in Come Rites, and in their mode of Wor^ (hip ; and in the Parifh-Churches there are di- verfityof Ceremonies and Ufages in the Wor- jffiip of God . In fome Churches they ftand up at the Hymns, in others not ; In fome they reade the Hymns and Pfalms Minifter and People an- tiphondtim, in others not : Infome>in moft,they' reade the Prayer for Chrifts Cath'olick Church, if at all, before Sermon, but I know where 'tii conftantly read after* And it is well known that none boaftmore of Unity than the Roma- cifts, and yet in feveral Countries they have fe~ vcral Rites, Cuftoms, and Pxivilcdges : and in' England [227] England before the happy Reformation, the Ser- vice Was admodttm Strum, and ad modum Ban- gor, different in divers Churches. Qgfji, Is it not neceiTary to appoint the fame Veftures and Geftures for the Worftiip of God> to avoid difference and confufion ? Anfrv. There is no Gefture or Ceremony pre- fcribedin the ringing of Pfalms, and yet Peo- ple generally are bare and reverend in tnat exer- cife. The late Canons in 1640. leave Bowing to- wards" the Eaft or Altar indifferent ; and would not hive thofe that do it,to judge thofe that do ic not ; nor thofe that do it not, to judge thofc that do it. Now what greater inconvenience would Follow, if the fame moderation and liberty to Dra&ifc differently, Were ufed as to the Oofs, nuplice, and Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper ? If there muft be abfolute and univerfal Uni- formity in the Worfhip of God amonft the Wor- hippeis, then all muft alike have their Faces >neway, muft wear all Garments of the fame "afhion and colour. In the late Times, when he Liturgy and Ceremonies were difufed, there vere not a quarter of thofe -private CMeetwgs hat have been (ince. The number of them that eparated from the Publick Worftiip, were very mall in comparifon ; I fuppofe not ten to an mndred. The Author of the Debate, I guefs, and and hundred?, if not thoufands, of Conformiftf « did not hold tbemfelvcs bound, notwithstanding [ the Laws for Litiirgy and Ceremonies, to abfem i\\ themlelves from the then Publidc Woiiliip, anc i affcmblcfrlvAtelj) that they might uphold Unit formity in Forms of Prayer , Rites and Ceremonies < ^ Whence we may reasonably conclude, That thej \ thought Gods Publick Worihip might be carried ty on Without Uniformity in thefc things : Anc \\ again. That the omitfion of things required b] mi Law, is not judged fo great a fin as is by them ir: pretended. , r Quest Did not Presbyterians decry all Separa* \\ ration, and refine to tolerate Independents f Se\ « Cont. p. 224. Anfr. The Presbyterians both old and modern ; i« are againft Separation : They deny that they fe- 1 parate from you ; for upon occaiiorj they joyri fi with you in Ordinances, and if you remove fom< \*. things wherewith your Worfoip is clogg'd, thej p would joyfully communicate conftantly witfc \\ you. The prefent partial and temporary with- drawing, as to fome Ac-Is of Worfhip, is not tc [1 be charged with Schifm. If you hold forth com- munion with your Church as in the Apoftlcs days, with a Liturgy fufficicntly corrected with- out Symbolical Ceremooics, without fuch Oatbs 3 Declarations and Subfcriptions, they will come into your Bofom, though you not onely caft tbem ouc of your Lap, but thruft them out of your Houfe, in [I2p] ^gftuftj and (liut the Doors upon them* As we juftifie the Church of England from Schifrc> not- tfithftanding our Separation from Rome ; fo the [ ^Nonconformtfis will endeavour to juftifie their: withdrawings in fome Acts, and for a time oniy\, )y reafon of the terms of Communion impofed on them. That they are for Reformation, not Separation, may be hence concluded, That in a late project for Peace and Agreement, this was one Proportion given in by the Presbyterians :a Jthemfclves, That whofoever fbould be capable of any Employment, fhouid profefs to hold Communion with the Church of England, and to the attermoft i of his power' to promote the Peace and Happinejf thereof. And when there was a difference be- twixt Presbyterians and their Brethren, common^ ly called Independents, formerly, there Was a Coa- ference before a Committee of Parliament be- twixt them, in which the Presbyterians (as I am credibly informed) offered either to give or take.: that is to fay, They would take the EftablifH- ment, and allow their Brethren of the Congre- gational-way a well-regulated Toleration ; or let their Brethren take the Eftablifament, and allow the Presbyterians fuch a Toleration. And one of the chief of them, when the London-Mim- fters waited on bis Majefty at the Hague, when difcourfe was about Ecelcftaftical Arfairs, ear- ncftly moved his Majefty, that he would pleafe to think of a way to indulge them a Liberty* K though though they (hould not be comprehended in the.; Pablick Eliabliihment, as it was then hoped the! Presbyterian would have been. In brief, the Presbyterians difclaim Separa^ tion ; they are willing to have Union and Com- munion with the Church of England, upon Chri- ftian and friendly Terms : And they defire the like Liberty and Toleration from the Bifhops, that they were willing and ready to have (hewed to their Brethren of the Congregational Way : Yea, they would blefs God and our Governours, if they might have the like Favours and Liber- ties that Dr. Gptnning, Dr. Witt, Dr. Hide> andi others the Now-Conformifis had in former times. Queft. If the Presbyterians are willing tor conform to a Liturgy, and to this Liturgy when furrlciemly corrected • yet what hopes is there that ever there (hould beany Alteration or Re- formation of it, which will fatisfie or plcafe them, fo astoufeit? Anfw. Yes, there is fuch a draught already, made, to the great content of the chief of the Presbyterians ; and this done by three Reverend perfons, all Conformifts : And which I hope may be produced , when ever Authority (hall pleafe to command it. Que}?. Would it not be accounted a weak thing to ycild or condefcend, though never fo little, if this might be a means to cement and Co- der us together again. An[w, It Wis the prudence of tie ancient Church to fatisfie the Joanm!es> who had kept Conventicles apart from the Church for thirty years, being difgufted at the dishonour done to John Chryfofiom their Biftiop or Paftor ,• and this the Church did, by reftoring his honour after he was dead* Socrat. Ecclef. Hi Ft. Qneft. Why fhould the Church of England, remove the Ceremonies which (he hath retained lince the Reformation ? May {he not thereby difguft and offend the Romanics, to pleafe the Nonconformfts, which they call Puritans rather than Protcttants ? Anfrv. Thefe Ceremonies were at firft retain- d and continued when others were cafl out of the Church in hopes to bring the Papifls to a rompliance with our Churcb : But Archbi&iop r 4jher 9 as he that writes his Life informs us, upon occafion declared his Judgement concerning them, That experience of many years hath fliew- ed that this condefcention hath rather hardned them in their Error, than brought them to a M-* king of our Religion ; this being their u fu a 1 fay- ing, If our Flejb fa not good, why do you drlnk^of wr Broth ? If the Church ftick clofe to the Cere- monies, fhe is not like to gain our Adverfaries the Romanifts to our Communion ; if (lie lay a- fide the Ceremonies, (he may gain thoufands and ten thoufands of our Brethren to our Church a- gain. That they may do thus, God grant thaj K % the VI ft the Came mica might be in all out Biihops, that j was in Chritt Jefus, the chief Shepherd and Bi-jL ftiop of our Souls; that they may love and feed -their Sheep, and be ready to lay down their lives for their Sheep ; and then their Yoak will be eafie, and their Burden light. Or that was in the bieffed Apoftle Paul, on whom was the Care of all the Churches ; who profeiTeth of himfelf, 1 I became ad things to all men, that by any means 1 wight win fome. Or elfe that was in this Godly Archbiihop U[her 9 of whom 'tis recorded in his Life, That though he conformed himfelf, yet h defired that his Mtjcfty would not impofe th Englifh Ceremonies on the Irifti Church ; fay ingj // / had aU mens Confciexces in my keeping, J could in thefe dilutable Cafes give Laws unto them 06 well as my [elf: But 'tis one thing what J can do % and another thing what other men mush do. Since the Ceremonies be things (faith our Church) in their own nature indifferent, and yet by fome held fuperftitious and unlawful, it feemeth to \ fall within the Apoftles Rule, which is, That the ftrongdo defcend andyeild to the weaker ; if we will hearken to the Counfel of the Lord Chancellor Bacon, in his Confiderations touching the Church of England* Q%esl. Doth the holy Scripture caution us a gainit grieving our Brerhrcn, as well as againft cfftndingof them,fo as to occafion them to tum- ble and fail into fin } Anfw. Anfa. Tis our duty notonely to prevent our 3rothers fall, but his fears ; and to keep his heart rom finking, as well as his feet from falling. To the weak^ became I m voeah^ that I might gain the veak •* / **»* made all things to all men^ that I might t all means favejome, iCor.9.22. Tis the part of good Shepherd to carry the Limbs in his Arms, md gently to lead the Ewes that are great with foung ; and of Nurfing Fathers and Mothers, obe tender-hearted and tender-handed towards Sabes, towards weak and young Children. If t be faid, We mult not grieve or vex the Magi- hate : I anfwer, Tis true, we muft not ; but f the Magiftrate pleafc to remove the Law ; vhere there's no Law, there's no Difobedience ; ind then the Offence ceafeth : And where here's no Offence committed by the Inferiour, there fhould be no Offence taken by the Superi- ^ur ; or when there is none given, there iliould 3e none taken. The things are alterable in them- elves. The Magistrate is a Minifter of God for jood ; and if he fhall pieafe to remove every Humbling-rtone and grieving- thorn out of the way to the Church, and out of the w,ay of Obe- ience 5 How Hiall God and his people blcis him? All the power that the Chuich hath, it is to edification 3 and not to deftrucYton ; and there's a faf greater neceffity of Unity, than of Unifor- mity : Tis a great deal better not to make Ca- pons, than to make fuch as we fore-fee will bz K 3 b.okea ■• [*34] broken by thoufands, and that under a pretence of Confcience, and who are ferious, fobcr, civil people in their Lives and Conventions. 'Queft. What may be thought the readieft waj \ to make the Biftiops work eaiie, and his perform to bs beloved? Anfve* 'Tis I think to ufe Moderation* to ruli i with Love* and not with Rigor ; and that not -c Withstanding Tome young CounfeiloiSjfome Hot * fpurs, may advife them* as of old the younjd men did %ehoboam ; when their Brethren com j to them, and fay, Tour Fore-fathers(oi your Pijb decefibrs divers of them) made our Yoke grievom Now therefore make ye> we fray you y the grievot Service of your Forefathers^ and their heavy Tok which they put upon m y lighter y and roe will ferz you: To fay to them, Our little Finger jhall i heavier than our Fore-fathers Loyns; and no whereat they did lade yon with a heavy Toke> we w adde to your Tokf : Our Fore-fathers cbaftifed yc with Whips , but we will chaftije you with Scorpion f? The deeper you lay the Foundation in Humilir and the broader in Charity, the higher you ma probab.'y build your Houfe, and it may likewi ftand the longer. A well-grounded Jus Hum toum, may ftarid longer than a high-built pretei ded Jus T>lvinum> *And %eafon fheWs , fai one, that Epifcopacy will Band more firm in co funtlion with presbytery ^ than by it felf alox There be two circumftances y faith my Lord Chai celloi ma xllor Bacon, wherein I could never be fatisfied ; be one , the fole exercife of their Authority ; the n her y the deputation ef their Authority. For the irfi t he faith, /m/y I do Juppofe ( and I thinly upon rood ground) that ab initio non. furt its. And ■hat the Deans and Chapters were Counfels abeut he Seas and Chairs of Bifhops at the firft y and were mto them a Presbytery orConfiftory. And again, we fee that the Bijhop of Rome (Fas eft & ab hofte doccri, and no queftion in that Church the firji In- ty'uutions were excellent) performeth all Ecclefiaftical Jurifdiftion, in Confiftory y with advice, that «•> f the Cardinals or Parifh- Priests of Rome. And hereof again ( faith he ) we fee divers fhadows yet remaining t at that the Dean and Chapter profor- machoofeth the Bijhop , which u the high eft point of Jur if ditli on. Again, The fame Author tells us , that the Bl(hop is a Judge , and of a high nature ; Whence tometh it that he fhould depute , confidering that all trufl and confidence is perfonal and inherent, and cannot or ought not to be tranjpofed f furely in this again ab initio non fuitita : But it is probable that Bifhops when they gave themf elves too much to the glory of the World, and became Grandees in King- doms , and great Counjellprs to Princes > then did they leave their proper Jurifdittion, as things of too inferior a nature for their greatneft ; And then af- ter the fimilitude and immhation of Kings and Counts-Palatine, they would have their Chancellors and Judges. K 4, Qucjl [i J 6] Quejl. Is the Author of 'the Fr. Debate fo ex* traoidinary zealous, as he pretends, foi the ho-* Bout of our Goyernouis and Government in the State? Anfw* See pag, 50, jri, of the Continuation) where fae doth intmuate, or more plainly infoim the Nation, that not only 'fynconformtfts keep Conventicles,but that Mafs is laid, and that the Faptfts take the fame liberty in the exercife of their Religion as the Nonconformlfts do in theirs. And that little or no notice is taken of any Drunkards, Swearers, or Blafphcmers. If he bad pleafed, 'tis to be th night he might have found great fins amongft the Clergy, little taken notice of> and not much punidied in Eccleiiafti- cal Courts. If he had done like Sbem and Jeiphet^ to have rather endeavoured to cover bis naked* nefs, he might have been blelTcd by them ; or elfc, if he Will needs have his jerks at Ifoncon- formlftsy though it light partly on his and our Superiors in the State, to have gone on, and have whipped the Buyers and Sellers in> out of the Temple alfo. Qj*ejl. Do the Nonconformist teach the peo- ple railing language, paiticularly to call all they like not, Antichriftian and Babylonifh ? Vid.CW- fjV, />.iy5> & 2.66, &c> Anfw. Time was when Reverend and Re-? p owned M*. Pines (that lolt the Malterfliip of Pembroke-Hail in Cambridge becaufe he" would' not cot fubfcribe the Engagement ; a J did alfo Dr.' Spurftov? the Matter of Kat her ine- HaII, and Mr. Toung of Jeftts—Colledge for the fame caul'e ) preaching before the Parliament, h\d, Hence- forward he fhould take Antichrist for a better man than ever he thought himto be, there were fo many good things charged upon him. And another Pref- byterian, now a Nonconform^, preaching to the fame Auditors, preached that Antichrijiian and Babylonian^ were terms fooner imputed or charged) than proved. But if the Unconforming- Minifiers or People were yet ignorant, and to leek for fcoffing and reviling language, they might have a Dictionary of fuch hard words out of the Friendly Debate* Inhere be in Private- meetings that ufe railing and reviling fpeeches ( as too many too often have in publick Congregations) I would rather advifc people to fit quietly at home, if they will not go to Church, than to go or ftep cut of doors to learn their language, I do not love a biting tongue ; and I take a black mouth to be as venemous in a rrun,as 'tis accounted wholfom in a dog. And if there be any printed Book wl h fuch railing fpeecfeor phrafes in them, (I will promife you) it inali never have my Imprima- tur, without an index expurgatorim in the next Edition. Que ft. Is the Divinity of the Nonconformifis a Phiaie-Divinity ? and in cafe their Books and Ser- Sermons arc not fili'd with foul language, i$| there any thing bcfides fine words,and new phra-*; fes in them ? Anfvf. There was fomething befides words in the Old NoncoHformlfts , witnefs the writings of Mr. Hod, . Mr. Ball, Mr. HUderjham, Mr. Brad- Jbarvj &c. And doubclefs there is matter, and that good matter and found fpeech, that need not to be afhamed, in the Writings of Noncon- formists of this Generation , witnefs the Books written by Mr. Baxter, Dr. M ant on, Mr. Caryll, Mr. Allen, Dr. Oven, }AlPooI,&c. they hold to Scripture-exprerlions, and to the term? of found words, which they have received from the moft ferious folid pious Bifhops and Do6fcors of the Chair 5 Profeflbrsat home and abroad in former times ; yea, the Nonconforming-Presbyterians and Congregational Minifters profefs to agree with our Articles of Religion of the Church of England, in all things concerning the Doctrine of Faith and Ceremonies : And is all this but Phrafe-Divinity ! The Author of the Debate, and divers other of the prefent Conformifts may as juftly be char- ged for new Divinity, new minted words in Di- vinity, new phrafes and modes of expreflfing themfelvcs in Sermons and Writings> and thefe too lefs conform to the language of the holy Scripture, our own Articles and Homilies, the Harmony of Confeffions of the. Reformed Chur- ches* [H9l dies, and our ancient Biihops and Dc&ors. The Author of the Debate, though he feems to be the Biihops Advocate, yet his Writings (hew him more an Epfcopian than an Eplfcopalian ; and 'tis cafie to fee from what forge they have their new Divinity and new Theological Dictionary. Quett. Were not the Nonconformists the cauie of the ftrange and new Doctrines and O- pinions, and of phantaftical words and phrafes in preaching and writing ? Anf+ I grant the taking down the old Mound or Hedge, and not fetting a new one in the room, was an occafion that many erronious per- fons, like wild beaits, did get into the Vineyard, and that fome ftiange Do&rines>Phancies, Phra- fes and Whimfes were vented in the Times of War and late Confufions ; but I fay, that thefe things are not to be charged upon the Prcsby- ttrians : for if they had had power to their prin- ciples and purpoies, they would doubtlefs have f aifed up a Mound or Fence againft fuch Errors, Fancies and Follies, as ftrong as that the Parlia- ment removed. I have heard it obferved, thai of all Churches 3 no Church hath had fewer Here- sies and Heterodoxies fpring up, or at leaft profper in it, than the Church of Scotland, and that this was acknowledged by King James. Quest. Were all that took the Covenant bound thereby to endeavour to introduce the Government of the Church of Scotland into Eng- land) [140] . land, becaufe they obliged thetnfelves to main- tain and defend Religion in the Church of Scot- land, and to reform Religion in the Church of England f Vid. Contin. p. 1 6 8 . Anfo. No. They engaged only in their pla- ces and callingS;and fo far as lawfully they might to prefervc Religion in the Church of Scotland againft the Common Enemy, notwithftanding which the Scots might leform ought that was a- mifs or defective, with his Mtjefties leave and content, in a legal manner. And the English Co- vtnmtcrs were not bound to model the Church- Government in England according to the pattern of the Kirk of Scotland^ but according to the Word of God and the beft Reformed Churches* Whether Scotland, or Holland) oxGeneva^&ic* was the beft Reformed Church, was not determi- ned. And the Englifli were not engaged in their places and callings, and fo far as lawfully they might, by the Covenant, to follow the Model of any one of thefc, or all the Reformed Churches, in any thing difagreeing from the Word of God ; and in cafe a primitive Epifcopacy (thtt is, Cnurch-Governmentby a Bitriop, with a Pref- bytery as his Counfellors and Atliftants) prove moft agreeable to the Word of God., they were bound to fet up, (onely in their places and cal- lings, and fo far as lawfully they might) that Government in the Church of England: Not- withihnding what the Eail ofBrijlol, when Lord Dlgbjy Plgby y hath written in his letters toSuKenelm Digby, viz. He that would reduce the Church now % to the Form of Government in the most primitive times, fhould not takfjn my Oplnion^the btft nor the wifefl courfe y I am [ure not thefafefl j for he would be found pecking towards the Presbytery of Scotland , which for my part I believe ? in point of Government , hath a greater resemblance than yours or ours> to the firft Age of Chrifts Church. But whatever was the meaning of the Impofers or Takers of the Covenant in thofc days, I have heard an emi- nent Perfon, * Doctor that bad taken it, though a Nonconformift , declare , That he was not bound by it to endeavonr any other Reforma- tion than what he had been obliged unto, if he never had taken the Covenant; that he is not bound to ufe any unlawful or feditious means, or endeavours, to bring about a Reformation. That the Law of the Land is the Rule to judge by, what means or endeavours arc unlawful and fe- ditious. Quefl* Do not the Presbyterians \>hy faft and loofe, and turn with the wind ? Was not the time once when they held Ruling Elders to be Jure Divinoy but now they hold no fuch matter ? Anfw. I believe the Scotti/h Presbyterians were and (UU are of that Judgement, that Ru- ling Elders are Jure Dlvlno j but I knew few Eng- liih, if any, that held that Office fo* fave oncly in a large fence , as many Eplfcopaliws now hold Bifoops Bifoops to be Jure Divwo, that if, a lawful Go-i vernment, not repugnant to the Word of God. However, 'tis faid, and that by no mean Scho- lar, That Geneva did notfirfi inflitute thofe Officers, but only reftored them. And I have read that it was acknowledged by a great Vithtc^Thatthe Church had in every Church certain Senior s y to whom the Government of the Church was committed. Surely they are as tolerable in a Church, where the Su- preme Power thinks good to eftablifh that Or- der, as are Chancellors, CommitTaries, &c. But in cafe that fome Presbyterians of old, held thern j of ufe in the Apoftlcs days, this alone (without an Inftitution and an Injunction to perpetuate them) doth not make them, or any other Ecclefi- aftical Officers, unalterable ; for we fee that the, Office of Widdows is laid afide in the Church,' notwithftanding. Qtit(t. Did not the Presbyterians wholly iayj afide the ufe of the Lords Supper? And was ill not for want of Ruling Elders ? Anfw. They celebrated the Lords Supper in London, and that too in fome Churches, once a Month y and frequently at Oxford 5 and I fup* pofe in many other places : Poffibly the expecta- tion of a fettlement might hinder the Admini- ftration of that Ordinance for a time in many places. But I knew a Parifh where it was a lona time difufed, though defired, becaufe the PmJI (honers did not provide (though oft urged untof 1 it CM3] k by the Minifter) decent and neceiTary Uten- (iis for the Celebration of it, QHeft. Do the Nonconformifts decry all ufe of Reafon in Theology? Anfo* They ufe frequently Reafons in their Sermons. Indeed they allow Reafon but the fecond place in Divinity ; to Revelation they ^ive the firft. Reafon and Phibfophy they make cobe the Handmaids, bur Divinity they honour is their Soveraign Lady and Queen. Reafon is he Counfellor, but Revelation is the Law-giver. We fay the Light of %ea[on is as the Light of a "low- Worm, or o£ a Candle, or (if you will leeds have it) as the Light of the Moon ; but the .aghtof Div\nz%evelation y is as the Light o£ he Sun, when it (hineth in its full rength. And with a reverend and lear- Dx. T # led Do£tor> we allow the ufe of a Can- le, although we would have it fnuffed ; and tfhen it is fet up in the houfe, we would not have le Window (hut, either tokecpour? or at leaft o darken the Light of the Sun. We prefer fee- ing on Manna, before feeding on Acorns and lusks; the Commands of Sr. PW> before the »reccpts of Plato; the Mafs of Gold in the line, before a few pieces of Silver fcattered ere and there in the Studies of Philofophers. Qutft* Do the Congregations of thofe that iffent from the eftablifhed Wor&ip , confift loftly of Army Saints £ [ T 44l Anf*. I have heard one that hath reafon ta know upon many Accounts better than the Au- thor of the Debate^ fay, That there is fcarce & fifth perfon of thofe that meet privately that wai en. gaged in the late Differences. And that the great- eft part of the late Army are at this day Mcm-j bers of Parochial Churches > is an even Wa-'i ger. Qjufi. Do the Arminians or Calyinifls cofr) netieft to the Do&rine of the Church of Eng land ? Anfrv. The profound pious and learned Do 6tor Samuel Ward, that was the Lt.^Margaret'i Profeflbr of Divinity in Cambridge^ (whole De-i terminations are fct out by the great pains and care of the Right Reverend Seth Lord Bifhop o£ Saris bury) in a Sermon of his Ad Clerum^ and dedicated by himfelf to the Univerjity of Cam* bridge^ teftifies, That as the whole Church of God ever fince St- Aftftine, fo in particular th$ National Church of England^ and the Univerfitj of Cambridge from the Reformation, and all the Profeffors, except onely one Baro 9 were againfl Arminim his Tenets. And this Baro within twe years was forced to leave the Chair, by the Power and Authority of Arcbbitliop Whitgift. Mud etiam vere adjicere poffam plus, mi Attgufli- m jam veterano & in ifla caufa verfatijfimo tribu> endttm ejfe quam centum Corvinis> Grotiis, Vor flits, Bertiisflilenis & id genm/ecentioribm Dogm&tiftis, Accedai Accedat <& iHttd coronidis loco 9 Attguflino femper ad jb&fijfey hue ex parte 3 Ecclefitm Univerfalsm ab ejus temporibm Ecclefiam item Anglicanam^ ab initio ^ Reformat ionis J &d Queji. Is the cafe of the Bonatijls and the cafe of thzNon-conformifts alike ? eX«/V. The t>onati&s % as they had no caufs in regard of the Faith ( by reafon of any dan- gerous DocVmes or Pr a&ices imoofed on them) toceafefrom communicating with any part of jthc Cathoiick Church; fo they divided from the whole Church, with the breach of Charity, con- demning it for no Church, and drawing the Communion wholly to themfelvcs; The Non* conformists do not condemn the Church of Eng- land as no Church • they do not confine trie Communion to themfclves 5 they humbly pray 1 Reformation of fame things which they con* seive amifs> and are willing to have Communi- on with them as Parts of the Cathoiick Church ( faving the Practices wherein they differ) the/ leave them to their Liberty, and defire a Liber- ty for themfclves to feive God according to their Conferences* The Presbyterians (hewed their Charity in their earned endeavours to fave the life of \>t.Hemt an Epifcopal Dt ; for which purpofc,they joyned in an Addrefs to 0< C. the only Addrefs they ever made unto him ; Nsi* ther Presbyterians t VkQi Congregationifts,chaigz the Epifcopalians for being Schifmaucks* bscaufe L ihey [, 4 <] they do not communicate with their Congrega- tions, and yet they look upon themfelves as true ! Churches of Chriit, and both for Doctrine and Difcipline, to come as near the Scripture-Patcrn a? themfelves. They offered to Unite and Re- . concile with the Eplfc opal -Clergy upon Chriftian terms, before His Majefties Return, and fince. As for our Brethren of tyrv England, they are of Age, let them anfwer for themfelves. As for \ our Congreational Brethren at home,! lately heard that Dr. Goodwin fTiould profefs to hold Commu- nion even with the Lutheran Churches, And D/v Owen pvofeffcth againft all Impofitions • and thaD 'tis his Judgment, That the Eplfcopals and Pre sj byterUns be left to worfhip God as they judge* in their Conferences beft ; That for his part, be, jadgeth no man for his Conformity, provided hp be not a Perfecuter of thofc that cannot. Finally, The Presbyterians fox themfelves de--. firs much rather a Reformation, or well Mated) Comprehenfion, than a Toleration ; and are a-) gainft Schifm and Separation, truly fo called, as much as any; which they have fufficiently evi- denced by their conftantly declared Opinions and Practice : They would be glad to fee the day, when being eafed of burdenfome Impoiui-i u ons, they might have opportunity to manifeft f this their finccre defire of Union and Coalition F with the Church of England. . i ; A Poftfcript to the Juthor of the Friendly Debate. SIR, Y3u have dealt with us, as the Jervesdld with our BLtffed Saviour; blindfolded us, & fmu- rcn us,& in cffcd bid us Prophefie who k is that r mote tu. Some ghaiTcs have been who you are >y the roughnefs of your hand, and the fmartnefs )f the blow ; I have not taken upon me thus to hoot in the dark, and yet pretend to hit the vlark. Nor will I go about to pull off the Vi- loi you put upon your own face> but to wipe off he dirt which you have caft on ours. To this mrpofe I pray you, after thefc premifed Refle- xions by me on fome Paffages in your Friendly \>ebatc % &c. you would be pleafed to refltc't up- •n your felf, and to ask your fclf thefc few yht eft kens. [Que ft. i. Whether or no you might not with Is much reafon, and more charity, have produ- cd Teftimontes out of the Large Annotations, Printed in the year itfyi. to clear Nonconform Uijls from temporizing, and conniving at Sacri- pdge,as you have done the Omiifions you charge pern withal in the Edition of 1646, to piovc L 2 them [! 4 S] them guilty. And lure I am, if you had pleafcd to fearch, you might have found in the Laft E- dltion, their diflike of Sacriledge in their l^ta on Prov. 20. 2J. It u a [nare to the man who de- vour etb that which it holy. That is, fay the Anno- tations, to *pply ir> or take it to his own ufe, which was appointed to Gods : yea, to go about to do it by inquiring bow the Vow might be made void. As alfoon ASis j. 1. in the cafe of Ana- nias and Sopphira, they declare plainly and fully againft Sacriledge as followeth. The fcope of this Hiftory is to (hew how odious to God that perfidioufnefs is, which counterfeiting Sandi^ ty, would impofe upon God, as if Hefavvnot what men do ; for other wife ( Ananias giving a fart, had been commendable) to great a mifchicf is Hypocrifie, fo dangerous tbeperverfion of an Holy purpofe, and thewith-drawing of thing! Confecrated to the Churches ufe ( though 05 timfelf who gave) that the Sacriligiousperifh ed by detaining a pan of that whole which he would feem to give. If he that taketh frorr the Church but a little of that which was hi own, be Sacriligious & ftruck dead for the fame what puniiTiment will the fame Divine Juftia Jay on him, who by fraud or violence taketh a way the PcfidTions wherewith other men en do^td the Church ? And upon %om.2.2z. to that Queftion whic! feme. make,why the Apollle doth vary the crim* faying [HP] laying, Thou that abhorreji Idols, doH thoti commit Sacrilege^ and not rather doft thou commit Idola- try ? They give this Anfwer for one, That the Apoftle ufeth an aggravation, as if he fhould fay, Thou that abhorrelt Idols, doft thou commit * worfc fin, to wit, Sacrilege ? Qatst.2. Whether Dr. SherlockSn his Vifitt- tion Sermon (pag.y,8 } 9.) Preached at Warring- ton (May 1 i.)and Printed at London with an Im- primatur, June o. 1669. charging all (fonfor- mlfisy who pray before and after Sermon, any Prayers befides tbofe of the Publick Liturgy, as guilty of facrilegioufly breaking their Vows and Promifcs, may not as juftly be urged againft Conformifls y as Mr* Cafe his Complaint againft Covenant-breakings be urged againft Nonconform mifts, to prove them tranfgreflors of the 3d Com- mandment, in the main fence and meaning of it. Q^S' Whether it may not as reafonably be defired, that the Conformi/is fhould be agreed a- bout the Rule and Standard of Conformity, before others be preiTed to come up to it ; as to require that the TS^nconformifls (hould be all agreed what will fatisfte them before any condefecntions may be deiired for, or granted to them. Are the Old Canons Law, or are they not } Are the Canons made in the Synod 1640, Law or not ? Mull we read Second Service at the Communion Table , or muft we not? Muft we pray before Sermon,ox muft we only bid 01 exhort the People to Pray ? .(^♦Whether they arc not to be reputed Non* conformiffs^ho go beyond the law y & do mot e then is required ? who ufc other Rites & Ceremonies, then the Aft of Uniformity injoyns>as well as thofe that faBfhort of doing [ome things by law required? j£> j. Whether it may not well become our Spiritual Fathers and Brethren of the Church, to yield a little in things indifferent to the weak- nefs of thofe (fuppofe they be in an error)who re- ally fcruple the lawfulness of them, and who are ready to take a folernn Oath that they would Con- form, if they could but be once convinced, that by their Obedience to mans Ordinances* they fliould not difobey the Laws of God. QjS. Whether what was faid, done, or Prin- ted in times of War, ought to be remembered and produced in Evidence in times of Pcace,aftet a moft folemn Alb of Oblivion and Indempnity f jg. 7. Whether it was feafonable, when His moft Excellent Majefty, and the Parliament, at the laft Seflion* had under Confederation fome Expedient for Union and Reconciliation, for a Minifter of the Gofpel of Peace 8c of a profeffed large Charity to Print and publilh fuch Books as might rationally be thought might prove to be Obftru&ionsin the way of Accommodation ? £^8. Whether there be not as much evidence of Caarity, Modefty, Meekncfs and Moderation in Mr. Corbet his Two pieces, as in the Three Parts of the Friendly Debate f Q^9> [»J1] ■ > Qj. Why you ire pleafed to charge the Non- corformlfts wittvfo much rigor & feverity againft Diflfcnters formerly, without remembring that the Atchbiftiop of t/frmagb, and Billiop Brown- rig were Publick Preachers in the Inns of Court in thofe times ; or that the prefent Bifhop of mrctfler yihzn Bifhop of Oxford, enjoyed a good Parfonage ; and that the grcateft part of the now Conformifts in England^ had publick Imployment in thofe times ? j^io.Whether you think that the late Affem- bly of Divines at Weftminfter> whereof Dr. %*y- noldsy Y)x*Twiffe, Wir.Gattaker, DuTuckney, Dr. t/frrowfmith, Mr.HerUy Mx.^ines, M:. Anthony Bargefs and others wcie members, confiftcd of Perlons of lo inconhderablc and contemptible Pms, Piety or Learning, as is reprefented now a-dayes ? Aud, whether the prefent Nonconform *»//?/, fuch as Dr.Owen, Mr .Baxter, Di.Manton, Dt.Conant, Dr. Bates, Dr. Goodwin, Dr. 'Dilling- ham,&c.atc really fuch IgnoramuiTes as fome of your helots vvonld have the world imagine thcrri to be? j£. i r. Whether Dr. Heylins Hiftory of Pw- bytery doth not wound the Reformation through the fides of the Presbyterians ? j£Xi2. Whether if the Nonconformists Con- FefTions in their Prayers, may be produced in E. vidence againft them, How the Sons and Daugh^ ers of the Church will appear Iinoccnr 3 who are taught teugfit after every [Commandment read by the MU fter, to fay and pray, Lord have mercy upon uti and incline oar hearts to keep this Law ? £.13. Whether if His Majefty and the Par- liament,would be gracioufly pleafed to leave the ufc of the Three Ceremonies of our Chnvch as indifferent, as the Canons in 1640 do the Cere- mony of Bowing towards the EaFt, or ^Altar • That Rule of Charity might not be ftili obferved, namely, That ihofe which ufe thefe Ceremonies {hould not defpife them that ufe them not 5 and lhat thofe who ufe them not, condemn not thofe that ufe them ? £.14. Who hath thriven moft and profpered beft, the Spaniard with his Inqnifition i or the Hollander With his Toleration ? And now having defired you to ask your felf thefe Questions, Give me leave to reflect upon my felf too, and to confider what I have done* J fay VLOK^What 1 have written J have written; but rather, if I have written any thing which (hall be truly interpreted Seditious or Schifmatical>or which is juftly oftenfive to any of my Superiors* Inferiors, or Equals in Church or State, I hum- bly beg Pardon,and Conclude ; defiring you and all my Brethren, Conformists and Non-confor* mifts y to joyn in that good Prayer, Give Peace in our timey O Lord* F / X / S. 4