DUKE UNIVERSITY 
 
 LIBRARY 
 
 The Glenn Negley Collection 
 of Utopian Literature 
 
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DUKE 
 
 UNIVERSITY 
 
 LIBRARY 
 
 Treasure %oom 
 
 UTOPIA 
 
Digitized by tine Internet Arciiive 
 in 2010 witii funding from 
 Duke University Libraries 
 
 Iittp:7/www.arcliive.org/details/platoredivivusor00nevi' 
 
PL AT O 
 
 REDIVIVUS: 
 
 O R, A 
 
 DIALOGUE 
 
 CONCERNING 
 
 otjernment 
 
 Wherein, by Obfervarions drawn 
 from other KINGDOMS and 
 S TATE S both Ancient and Mo- 
 dern, an Endeavour is ufed to 
 difcover the prefent POLITICK 
 DISTEMPER of our OWN, 
 with the C A U S E S, and R E- 
 MEDIES. 
 
 l:son Ego fum Fates, fed Prijci confcius cevi, 
 Pluribus exemplis hccc tibi Myjia Cam, 
 Res nolunt male admini^rtiri. 
 
 LONDON^ 
 
 Printed for 5. /. in the Year 
 
 MD G LXXXI. 
 
—Mr 
 
 PUBLISHER 
 
 TO T HE 
 
 READER. 
 
 Courteous Reader, 
 
 AL L the Account I can give 
 thee of this Piece is *^ that 
 about the middle of OOiO- 
 ber laji it was fent to nie^ accompa- 
 nied with a Letter without a Name^ 
 and written in a Hand altogether un- 
 known to me^ though different from 
 the Chara^er of the Dialogue itfelf 
 and the Argument. The Letter was 
 veryfhort'j and contained only^ that 
 the Writer having the fortune to 
 meet mth this DifcourJ^ ( of which he 
 
 A 3 de- 
 
The Publinieir 
 
 Jeniedto he the Author} he thought 
 it very fit to be Jent tp vie^ to the end, 
 if I thought it could he of any advan- 
 tage to me^ and no prejudice y I mighi 
 publifhitiflpleafed^ and make my 
 heft of it. When I had opened it^ and 
 perceived that it treated of Govern- 
 vierit^ and of the prefent Tiynes j / 
 fupfofing it to he fomethingof the na- 
 ture ofthofe Scurrulous Libels which 
 the Prefs fpawns every day, was ex- 
 treamly difpleafed with my Servant, 
 for receiving in my ahfence, and in 
 thefe dangerous days, fuch a Pacquei, 
 without taking any account or notice 
 of the Meffenger who brought it : 'till 
 he^ to appeafe me, ajfured me, that 
 the Bearer did look.Uke a Gentleman, 
 andh^d avery imfuitable Garb to a 
 Trap an 5 and that he did believe he 
 had feen hif/i often at my Shop, and 
 that 1 knew him well. When I had 
 
 begun 
 
to the Reader. 
 
 begun to read it^ an J found 7io harm, 
 I was refolved to perufe it in theConi' 
 pany of a Gentleman^ a worthy Friend 
 of mine 5 who , to his exa£i Skill 
 and Learning in the Laws of his 
 Country^ hath added a very profound 
 Knowledge in all other Literature*^ 
 and particularly^ the excellence of 
 Platonick Philofophy. Wl)en we had 
 joyntly gone through it, he was clear- 
 ly of Opinioji , That although fome 
 might be angry with certain paf 
 fages in it ^ yet the Vifcourfe re- 
 fleoiing upon no particular Perfon , 
 fpas very uncapable of bringi?ig vie 
 into any danger for publijhing it j 
 either from the State, or from any 
 private Man. When I had fecured 
 viyfelfagain/i Damnum EmergenSj 
 we went about the Confideration of 
 the other part of the dijiin^ion of the 
 Schools, which is Lucrum ccftans, 
 
 A 4 a^ld 
 
The Publiflief 
 
 And I made feme Obje^ions againfi 
 the probability of vending this Dia^ 
 logue to Profit I, tphich^ in things of 
 my Trade, is always my defign, as ft 
 mght to be. My fir /I Fear in that 
 behalf was, that this Author would 
 ififguft the Reader, in being too con- 
 fiJent and pofitit/e in matters offo 
 high a Speculation. My Friend re- 
 plied, that the Ajfurance he jhewed 
 was void of all Sawcinefs, and ex- 
 preffed with great Modefty '^ and that 
 he uerily believed that he meant very 
 faithfully and fincerely towards the 
 Interefi o/England. My next doubt 
 was, that a confiderable part of this 
 Treatife beiiig <t Repetition of a great 
 tnany Principles arid Pofttions out of 
 OcC2Lnii,the Author would be difcr edi- 
 ted for borrowing from another, and 
 the Sale of the Book hindred. To 
 that my Friend made anfwer, that 
 
 before 
 
to the Reader. 
 
 hrfore ever Oceana came oui\ there 
 t^ere t/ery many Treatises and P am- 
 pI)letSj which alledgedthe Political 
 principle^ That Empire was foun- 
 ded in Property, and difcourfed ra- 
 tionally tipon it : Amongfi the refty 
 one entituledk Letter from an Offi- 
 cer in Ireland y to His Highnefs 
 the Lord Protedlor, {which be then 
 fherped me^ printed in 1^53. as I 
 remember j which was more than 
 three Tears before Oceana was writ- 
 ten : and yet J [aid he, no Man will 
 aver that the Learned Gentleman 
 who writ that Book had Jiollen front 
 that Pamphlet. For wbofoever fets 
 Mmfelf tofludy Politicks^ muft do it 
 ^^by reading Hrflory^ and obferving in 
 -it the fever al Turns and Revolutions 
 \of Government : and then the Caufe 
 aoffuch Change will be fovifible and 
 t^vious^ that tpe need 7iot irnpite 
 -V jheft 
 
The Publiflier 
 
 Xhefttoany Man that finds it out ^ 
 it being as lawful^ and as eafie for. 
 any Perfon, as well as for the Au- 
 thor of Oceana, or that Pamphlet^, 
 /p r^^^ Thucidides, Polybiqs, Li- 
 vy . or Plutarch : and if he do fa 
 with attentive?iefsj Jye fhall be fare 
 to find the fame things there that 
 they have found. A?id if this were 
 not Lavpful^ when that any one Per^ 
 fon has written in ajiy Science^ no 
 Man muji write after him : for in 
 Polity, the Older s of Govcrnmentj 
 in Architedure, the feveral Orders 
 0/ Pillars, Arches, Architraves, 
 Corniflies, &:c. In Phyfick, the 
 Caufes, Prognofticks and Crifis of 
 Difeafes, are fo exa^ly the fame in 
 all Writers , that we may as well 
 accufe all fubfeque72t Authors to have 
 been but Plagiaries of the Antece- 
 dent. Befides this ^ the Learned 
 
 Gentle- 
 
to the Reader. 
 
 Gentleman addeJ, that Oceana was 
 trritten (it being thou^ot Lawful fo 
 to do in thofe times} to evince out 
 of thefe Principles, that England 
 was not capable of any other Go- 
 vernment than a Democracy. 
 And this Author out of the fame 
 Maxims, or Aphorifms of Politickfj 
 endeavours to prove that they may be 
 applied naturally and fitly, to the re- 
 dr effing and fupporting one of the 
 heft Monarchies in the World, 
 which is that of England. / had 
 but one Doubt more, and that was 
 an Obje^ion againfi the Title, which 
 I refolved at the firfi not to men- 
 tion , becaufe I could jalve it by 
 altering the Title Page. But 
 fince L had opportunity , I ac- 
 quainted the Gentleman with it: 
 And it was. That certainly 7io Man 
 
 would ever buy a Book ^f^^^ ^^^ ^^ 
 
 Front 
 
The Publiflier 
 
 Front of it fo infolent and prejmi^ 
 ptucus a Motto as Plato Redivi- 
 vus J for that he vmft needs be 
 thought not only vain in the hi^ 
 eji degree , but void of Sence and 
 Judgment toOj who compares him- 
 felf with Plato , the greatefi Phi- 
 lofopher, the greateft Politician (/ 
 had almoft faid the greateft: Di- 
 vine too) that ever lived. My 
 Counfellor told me that he had 
 as great a refentment of any Injury 
 done to Plato as J, or any Man could 
 have. But that he was hard to believe 
 that this Man intended to com^ 
 lih^are himfelf toVhzOy either inNa^ 
 turat Tarts or Learning 5 but only 
 iofhevp that he did imitate his way 
 of Writings as to the manner of it 5 
 -{though not the matter ) as he 
 hath done exaoily. For Plato ever 
 
 writ 
 
to the Reader. 
 
 mit thefe high Matters in eafie ani 
 familiar Dialogues^ and made the 
 great Philofophers^ and learned men 
 of that Age '^ ^^Simias, Cebcs, Ti- 
 mseus, Callias, Phaedon, &c. yea^ 
 and Socrates himfelf the Interlo- 
 cutors, although they never heard 
 any thing of it till the Book, came out. 
 And although talking ofSlztQ. Affairs 
 in a Monarchy muft needs be more 
 offenfive than it was in the Demo-^ 
 cracy where Plato lived. Andthere^ 
 fore our Author has forhorn the nam* 
 ing the Perfons who conjiitute this 
 Dialogue 5 yet he doesmake a -pretty 
 near Reprefentation and CharaSlerof 
 fome PerfonSyWho^ 1 dare fwear ne^ 
 ver heard of this Difcourfe^ nor of the 
 Author' s Defign. this convinced me^ 
 and mademefuffer the Title topafs. 
 So that I have nothing more to fay to 
 thef^ Courteous Reader^ buttodeftre 
 
 thc€ 
 
The Publiflier^" 
 
 thee to pardon theFanlts in rrit^ifig^ 
 and al[o the plainnefs a7id eafinefsof 
 the Sty le^ and feme Tautologiesiwhicb 
 latter I could eafily haveviejided^bt^ 
 that I thought the Author did not let 
 them pafs outofnegle^^ but defign: 
 and intended that both they^ and the 
 familiarity of the words and exprejfi- 
 ons^ fuited better with his purpofe of 
 difpojing this matter to be treated in 
 ordinary Converfation amongfi pri- 
 vate Friends'^ than full Periods and 
 flarch^d Language would have done 5 
 which might have been Impropriety. 
 The next Requeft I have to thee is^ 
 that if thou doji believe this Difcourfe 
 •to be a very fooli/h one^ as it may he 
 for ought I l^jow Cfor I am no fit 
 .Judge offuch matters) that thou wilt 
 yet vouchfafe to-fufpend thy Cenfure 
 <)fit for a while J till the whole Im- 
 :preJfiQn is vended: thatfo^ although 
 ^\ i neither 
 
to the Reader. 
 
 neither the Publicly nor thy felf may 
 ever reap any Benefit or Profit by it^ 
 I may be yet fo fortunate by thy favour 
 as to do it. Which will mal^ meftu- 
 dythy Content hereafter in fomething 
 better j and in the mean time re- 
 main^ 
 
 Thy Friend and Servant. 
 
 ERRATA. 
 
 PAg.^lin.i 1 .read /<^o,p.tfJ.i.r. this vtnt ^^.^iX.i t,x.Mnd 
 before that the Land- Army 0/ Darius,p.68.1.8.r.r/p/;g://4r 
 p.69.1. 1 6.T.Polici'es,p,y6A z i.T^Urufca^ory y^.yB.\.2l .x.lhave 
 readmany^ p.8o. I.14. r. rigorous, p.8z. l.j. dele more, p.8^, 
 l.y.T.the remotenefs of, p.S9.lii.Y.preferfue,p.p^, 1.24.r.y^//fl- 
 diali, p.95.1.io.r.L^wfl^j [>.9^.li$j.lfttppofe, p.99.],9.r, iu^ 
 tervened, p.i i4.1.9.for His Msjejiy, r. any King, p.i28.l7.r. 
 mannef and form, p.i 5o.l.l5,r. Jlcaval^ p.i6i.].^.r.y^gree- 
 nent in Parliament, p.i 84. J.xi. i.rigoreus, p.i 89. l.i.r. the 
 People, p.206.1.1 2.r.So that as, p.21 ^A.i6,x.hps Word, p.211. 
 ].24.r.^ a, i^.iil.\.\i,x,States, p.224.J.ult.for Family,x,Son^ 
 f^^^6, J.2o.r. Demagogues, p.i\o\,i^. d&\tbut, p.252.1.4. 
 ^M'^'virt,^»ilj.}M^i^ovmi^,i^^XySQtPurfes^x,PerJ(ms 
 
C I ] 
 
 The Argument. 
 
 A Nolle Venetian, not one of the yonng 
 Fry, hut a grave jober perjon, ivho had 
 horn office and Mag/Jlracy in his own 
 Common-Wealth, having been jome years 
 fince in France with a near Relation of 
 his who was Amhajfadour at that Court ^ 
 and finding himfelf out of Employment^ 
 refolved to divert himjelf hy vifiting 
 fome part of the World which he had ne- 
 ver feen ; and fo paffing through Ger- 
 many, Flanders, andHoXhnA, arrived 
 in England about the beginning of May 
 lajl , bringing Letters of recommenda- 
 tion to fever al Engliili Gentlemen, ivho 
 had been Travellers y and made Friend- 
 fhip in his Country. A Cuflom ufually pra- 
 itifed amongil fuch who travel into any 
 part where they have no habitude or ac- 
 quaintance. Amongd the rejl, he was 
 addrejfed to one of the Gentlemen whd 
 a^s apart in this Dialogue : Who after, 
 he had . waited upon him, and ferved 
 
 B hfnl 
 
him for near two Months , had certain 
 itecejfary occafions, which called him for 
 fome time into the Country. iVhere he 
 had not been ahove three Weeks ^ before 
 he heard, hy meer accident, that the Gen* 
 tleman of Venice was fallen dangerous 
 Jick of iL malignant Feaver, Which 
 made him pofl away immediately to 
 London, to affifl and ferve him in what 
 he might. But he found him almoft per- 
 fe^ly refiored to his health by an emi- 
 nent Thyfician of our Nation, as renown- 
 ed for his Sktll and Cures at home ; 
 as for his Writings both here and a- 
 broad'. And who bejides his profound 
 knowledge in all Learning, as well in o^ 
 f her Prof ejjions as his own, had particu- 
 larly arrivd to fo exaii and perfetl a 
 difcovery of the formerly hidden parts 
 of humane Bodies, that every one who 
 can but underfland Latin, may by his 
 means know more of Anatomy, than ei- 
 ther Hypocratcs, or any of the Anci- 
 ents or Moderns did, or do perceive. 
 And if he had lived in the days of Solo- 
 mon, that great Philofopher would 
 never have faid Cor hominis infcrii- 
 tabilc. This cSQtUcnt Deilor being ih I 
 
 the 
 
f3] 
 
 the fick mans Chamber, when ti}e other 
 Engliih Gentleman, newly alighted, came 
 to vifit him, Ajt£rfome Compliments at^d 
 Converfation of courfe, they begun to 
 talk of Folitical Matters ^ as you will 
 better underjiand by the Introduilion^ 
 akdby the Difcourfe itfelf 
 
 The FIRST DAY. 
 
 The Introdu£lion. 
 
 Englifh Qen-f^ ■ ^ H E fuddep new^ 
 
 tleman. I I had of your fad 
 
 j^ di(lemper,andthe 
 
 danger you were 
 
 in, has beejn the caufe of a great deal of 
 
 afHidion to me, as well as of my pre- 
 
 fent and fpeedy repair to London, fome 
 
 Weeks fooner than I intended : I mufl: 
 
 confcfs I received fome comfort to hea,r 
 
 at my arrivalof your amendment,and do 
 
 t^kemuch more now to And you upland 
 
 fi i as 
 
t: 4 ] 
 
 as I hope recovered ;whicli I knew woiiI3 
 be a neceiiary confequence of your lend- 
 ing for this excellent Phyficlan , the 
 Ejculapius of our Age, it being tiie firft 
 requeftlhad to make to you, if by fee- 
 ing him here in ycur Cliamber I had not 
 found it needlefs. For the Deftiny of us 
 jE/zg/z/^-men depends upon him, and we 
 either Hve or dye Infalhbly, according 
 tothe Judgment or good Fortune we 
 have, when we are lick, either to call 
 or not call him to our afiiftance. 
 
 Nohlc P^enethm. I am Infinitely ob- 
 liged to you, for your care of me, but 
 am forry it has been fo inconvenient to 
 you, as to rnake you leave your Affairs 
 in the Country fooner than you propo- 
 fed to your felf to do : I wiih I might be 
 fo fortunate in the coune of my Life, 
 as to find an opportunity of making fome 
 part of an acknowledgrnent, for this and 
 all the reft of your favours, but iball pray 
 God it may not be in the famq kind ; 
 bur that your health may ever be fo en- 
 tire, that you never need fo tranfcendent 
 a Charity, as I now receive from your 
 Goodnefs: And as to this incomparable 
 Doftor ; although, I muft confefs, that 
 
 all 
 
[J] 
 
 all the good which has happen'd to me in 
 this Country, as well as the knowledge 
 J have received of. Perfons and Things, 
 does derive iroiii you;} et I muft make an 
 exception,as to this one point; for iF I 
 can either read, or hear, this Gentle- 
 man's exeellent Writings, and the Fame 
 he worthily enjoys in my Country, 
 would have made it inexcufable in me, 
 to implore the help of any other ; and 
 do allure you, that, before I left England, 
 it was in my Ambition to b^g your Me^- 
 diation towards the bringing me into 
 the acquamtance and favour ^of this 
 Learned Perfon , even before I had 
 any thoughts of becoming the Objeft of 
 his Care and Skill, as now I am the Tro- 
 phy of botli. 
 
 Dodor, Well, Gentlemen, you are both 
 
 too great to be Flatterers, and I too little 
 
 tobe flattered,arLd tjiercfore I will impute 
 
 this fine difcourfe you both maj^e about 
 
 me, to the overflowing of your Wit, 
 
 .^^and the having no Objed near you to 
 
 vent it upon but mc. And for you, 
 
 ,^^,Sir, ifmy Artfailme not, the voiding 
 
 .^.^ this Mirth, is a very good fign that you 
 
 are in a fair way to a perfed recovery, 
 
 D 5 And 
 
[61 
 
 Mel foffttyCbuntry- man here .• I hope 
 whileft he has his vent, that his Hypo- 
 condriack diftemper will be at quiet, and 
 that neither his own thoughts, nor the 
 ill pofture of our Publick Affairs will 
 make him hang himfelf, for at lead this 
 twelve Months : Only, Gentlemen, pray 
 take notice, that this does not pafs upon 
 me, nor do I drink it like Milk (as the 
 /v-d'^c/^phrafeit) being mindful of what 
 a grave Gentleman at Florence reply ed to 
 a youngErquire,who anfwered his Com- 
 pliments with. Oh, Sir, you flatter me^ 
 i premipi sadulano i pari voftri fi coglio- 
 ffono ; That laft word I cannot render well 
 into Latin, 
 
 Englijh Gentleman. Well, Doftor, we' 
 will not offend your Modefly ; The 
 rieit time we do you Juftice, it fliall be 
 behind your back, fince you are fo fe- 
 vereuponus. But youmay aflure your 
 felf that my intention of recommending 
 you to this Gentleman, was for his owrl 
 lake,and not for yours .-For you have too 
 many Patients already, arid it were 
 inuch better, both for you and us, that 
 you had but half fo many : For then vve 
 ihould have more of your Writings, and 
 
 fome- 
 
[7] 
 fometimes enjoy your good Converfati- 
 on ; which is worth our being fick 
 on purpote for. And I am refolved to 
 put my feif fometimes into my Bed, 
 and fend for you, fince you have done 
 coming to our (ioflee Houfe. 
 
 But to leave this Subjcft now, I hear 
 you fay, that this Gentleman is in^ 
 perteft way of recovery ; pray is he well 
 enough to hear, without any prejudice 
 to his convalefcencc, a Reprehcniion I 
 have to make him ? 
 
 Doth Yes, yes ; you may fay what 
 you will to him, for your Repremands 
 will rather divert than trouble him, and 
 prove more a Cordial than a Corrofive. 
 
 Efi^^. Gent. Then, Sir, pray confider 
 what iatisfaftioia you can ever make me, 
 for the hard meafure you have ufcd to- 
 wards me, in letting me learn from com- 
 mon Fame and Fortune, the news of your 
 Sicknefs, and that not till your recove- 
 ry ; and for depriving me of the oppor- 
 tunity of paying the debt I owe to your 
 own merit, arid to the recommendati- 
 on of thofe worthy Perfons in Italy, who 
 did me the honour to addrefs you to me. 
 And this injury is much aggravated by 
 
 B 4 r the 
 
[8] 
 the fplendour of your Condition, and 
 greatnefsof your Fortune, whieh makes 
 it impo/Iible for me ever to hope for a- 
 ny other occafion to exprefs my faith- 
 iulfervicetoyou, or fatisfie any part of 
 the duty I have to be at your devoti- 
 on. To be Tick in a flraage Country, 
 and to diltrufl the fmcerity and obedi- 
 (Bnce of — — 
 
 ISfoU- Ven. Pray, Sir, give me leave to 
 interrupt ycu, and to alFure you, that 
 it wao not any diflrull: of your goodnefs 
 to me, of which I have iiad fuilicient ex- 
 perience; nor any infenfiblenefs hovy 
 much your care might advantage me; 
 much \^{s any fcruple I had ot being 
 more in your debt ; which if it had been 
 po/Iiblefor me to entertain, itmufthave 
 keen thought of long fince, before I had 
 received thofe great Obhgations, which 
 I never made any difficulty to accept of 
 It was not, I Hiy, anyofthefe Confide- 
 rations, which hindred me from adver- 
 tifing you of my Diftemper ; but the 
 Condition and Nature of it, which in a 
 moment depriv'd me of the exercife of 
 thole Faculties which might give me a 
 Capacity of helping my felf in any thing. 
 
 But 
 
[ 9 J 
 But otherwife I allure you that no day 
 of my Life ihall pafs, wherein I will not 
 exprefs a lence of your Favours, 
 and — 
 
 DoihPray now,Sir,pcrmit me to inter- 
 rupt you ; tor this Gentleman, I dare fay, 
 looks for noCompliments;but that which 
 I have to fay, is; That the defire you 
 flgnified to me, to give you fome ac- 
 count of our Affairs here, and the turbu- 
 lency of our prefent State, will be 
 much better plaGed,if you pleafe toaddrefs 
 it to this Gentleman - whole Parts and 
 Studies have fitted him for fuch an Em- 
 ployment ; befides his having had a 
 great Ihare in the managing Affairs of 
 State here, in other times: And really 
 no man underftands the Government of 
 England better than he. 
 
 Eng.Gent. Now, Doftor, I ihould tell 
 you , i pari m'lel ft cogllonono, for {o 
 you your felf have baptized this kind of 
 Civility : But however, this is a Pro- 
 vince that I cannot be reafonably prefl 
 to take upon me, whilefl you are pre- 
 fent, who are very well known to be 
 as skillful in the Nature and Diflem- 
 per of the Body Politick, as tlie whole 
 
 Nati- 
 
E lo ] 
 
 Nation confefles you to be in the con- 
 cerns of the Natural. And you would 
 haV-e good ftore of Pradice in your for- 
 mer Capacity, if the wife Cuftom a- 
 mongft the ancient Geeeks were not to- 
 tally out of ufe. For they, when they 
 found any crazinefs or indifpofition in 
 their feveral Governments, before it 
 broke out into a Difeafe, did repair to 
 the Phyficians of State (who, from their 
 Profeflion, were called the Stv^n Wife 
 Men of Greece) and obtained from them 
 feme good Recipes to prevent thofe feeds 
 of diftemper from taking root, and de- 
 ftroyingthepublick Peace. But in our 
 days, thefe Signs ' or Forerunners of 
 Difeafes in State are not forefeen, till 
 the whole Mafs is corrupted, and that 
 the Patient is incurable, but by violent 
 Remedies. And if we could have per- 
 ceived the firfl Symptoms of our Diftem- 
 per, and ufed good Alteratives, the 
 curiofity of this worthy Gentleman had 
 b^cn fpared, as alfo his command to you, 
 to give him fome light into our matters ; 
 and we unfortunate Eftglijh-men had re- 
 pofed in that quiet, (safe, and feeurity, 
 which we enjoyed three hundred years 
 
 fmce. 
 
[11 3 
 
 fmce. But let us leave the conteft who 
 ihall inform thisGentleman,left we fpend 
 the time we ihoulddo it iri unprofitably, 
 and let each of us take his part; tor it we 
 fpeakall, it will look like a fiudied dif- 
 courlb fitted for the Prefs, and not a fi- 
 milliar Dialogue. For it otjght to be in 
 private Converfation, as it was origi- 
 nally in the planting the Gofpel, when 
 there were two forts of preaching ; the 
 one Concionary , which was ufed by the 
 Apoftlcs and other MifTionarie^, when 
 they fpokc to thofe who had never 
 heard of the Myfleries of Chriftian Reli- 
 gion, poiiibly not fo much as of the Jew- 
 iih Law, or the Hiilory of Chrift. The 
 duty of thofe was to hear, and not re- 
 ply, or any way interrupt theharrangue : 
 iiut when the Believers (called the 
 Church) aflembled together, it was the 
 Cuftom of fuch ot the Auditors, to 
 whom any thing occurred, or (as S. Paul 
 calls it) was revealed, to interpofe and 
 defiretobe heard, which was called an 
 Interlocutory Preaching, or Religious 
 Converfation ; and ferved very much to 
 theinftrudingand edifying thofe who 
 had long believed in Chrifl, and po/fibly 
 
 knew 
 
knew as much of him as their Pallor 
 himfelf;andthis is ufed ftillamongftmany 
 of our Independent Congregations. 
 
 DoiL I have (befides the reafon I al- 
 ledged before, and which I flill infift up- 
 on) fome other caufe to beg that you 
 \y\\{ pleafe to give your felf the trouble 
 ofanfwering this Gentleman's Queries; 
 which is, that I am very defedive in my 
 Exprellions in ihe/i'^//^;^Language;wliich 
 though I underftand perfedly^ and fo 
 comprehend all that either of you de- 
 liver, yet I find not words at hand to 
 Hgnifie ray own meaning, and am there- 
 fore necelfitated to dehver my felf in 
 Latin, as you fee. And I fear that our 
 pronunciation being fo different from 
 that which is ufed m Italy, this worthy 
 perfon may not fo eafily comprehend 
 what I intend, and fo be difappointed in 
 the defire he hath to be perfedly in- 
 ilruded in our Affairs. 
 
 Noble Fen, Really, Sir,that is not all ; 
 for befides that, I confefs your pronunci- 
 ation of the Latin Tongue to be very 
 new to me, and for that reafon I have 
 been forced to be troublefome to you, 
 in making you repeat things twice, /pr 
 
 thrice. 
 
thrice. I fay befides that your Latiriity, 
 as your Writings I'liew , and all the 
 world knows, is very pure and elegant, 
 wkich it is notorious to all, that we in 
 Italy fcarce underlland ; Gentlemen 
 there never learning more Latin, 
 than what is necelfary to call for Meat 
 and Drink, in Germany or HollanJ^ 
 where moft of the Hofts Ipeaka certain 
 Francky compounded of Dutch, Latin, 
 arid Italian. And though Tome of us 
 have Latin enough to underftand a good 
 Author, ( as you have of our Language) 
 yet we feldom arrive to fpeak any bet- 
 ter than this Franck, or can without flu- 
 dy comprehend good Latin, when we 
 meet with it in difcourfe. And there- 
 fore it is your perfection in that Tongue, 
 and my ignorance in it, that makes me 
 concur with you, in defiring this Gen- 
 tleman, to take the pains ot mflrufting 
 my Curiofity in Italian, 
 
 Eng, Gent, I fliall obey you in this, 
 and all things elfe, upon this condition, 
 that both you and the Dodlpr will voucl> 
 fafe to interrogate me, and by that 
 means give me the Method of ferving 
 5ou in this: And then that you will botk 
 
 pleafc 
 
[ 14 } 
 pkafe to interrupt and contradid me* 
 when you think I fay any thing amifs,or 
 that either of you are of a different Of^ini- 
 on, a.nd to give me a good occafion of ex- 
 plaining my felf/ind poiiibly of being con- 
 vinced by you,which I ihall eafilyconfefs; 
 for I hate nothing more tiian to hear dif 
 putes amongft Gentlemen, and men of 
 fence, wherein the Speakers feem (like 
 Sophifters in a College) to difpute ra- 
 ther for Viftory, thjm to difcover and 
 find out the Truth. 
 
 Dott. Well, all this I believe will be 
 granted you; fo that we have nothing 
 to do now, but to adjourn, and name 
 a tin;ic when to meet again. Which I, 
 being this Gentlemans Phyfician, will 
 take upon me to appoint, and it Ihall be 
 tomorrow morning about nine of the 
 Clock, after he has llept well, as I hope, 
 he will, by means of a Cordial I intend 
 to fend him immediately. In die mean 
 time, not to weary him too much, we 
 will take our leaves of him for this 
 Night. 
 
 t^ohle Fen, I fliall <xpe6t your retura 
 with great impatience, and if your Cor- 
 dial be not very potent, I believe the do- 
 
 fire 
 
fire of feeing you will make me wake 
 much fooncr than the hour you appoint. 
 And I am very confident, that my mind 
 afwellasmy body, will be fufficiently 
 improved by fuch Vifits. It begins to be 
 darkifli. Boy light your Torch, and wait 
 on thefe Gentlemen down. 
 
 Botk Sir, wc wifli you all good reft 
 and health. 
 
 HelkVen, And I, with a thousand 
 thanks, the like to you. 
 
 The SECOND DAY. 
 
 Ddl. T 71 7E11, Sir, how is it.-^ Have 
 V V y^^^ refted well to Niglit ? 
 fifear we .come too early, 
 
 UohleVen. Dear Dodor, I find my 
 felf very well, thanks to your Care and 
 Skill, and have been up above thefe two 
 hours, in expectation of the favour you 
 and this Gentleman promifl me. 
 
 Votl, Well, then pray let us leave o/T 
 Compliments and Repartees,of which we 
 had a great deal too much yell crday,and 
 fall to our bufinefs,and be pleas'd to inter- 
 .rogatcthis Gentlc.nan wlwt you think 
 ft. NohkVcn. 
 
[16] 
 
 t^oLhFen.ThcnySiXy my firft requell: 
 to you, is, That you will vouchfafe to ac- 
 quaint me for what Reafbns this Nation,- 
 which hath ever been edeemed (and ve- 
 ryjuftly) one of the mod confiderable 
 People of the World, and made the beft 
 Figure both in Peace, Treaties, Waf, 
 and Trade, is now of fo fmall regard, and 
 fignifies fo Uttie abroad ? Pardon the free- 
 dom I take, for I aflure you it is not out 
 of difrefpedt, much lefs of contempt that 
 I fpeak it .* For fince I arrived in England, 
 I find it one of the moft flourilhing King- 
 doms in Europe, full of fplendid NobiJi. 
 ty and Gentry ; the comliefl perfons 
 alive. Valiant, Courteous, Knowing 
 and Bountiful ; and as well ftored with 
 Commoners, Honeft, Induftrious, fitted 
 for Bufinefs, Merchandife , Arts, or 
 Arms ; as their feveral Educations lea:d 
 them. Thofe who apply themfelves to 
 ftudy , prodigious for Learning, and fuc- 
 cecdingto admiration in the perfeftion 
 M'all Sciences : All this makes the Riddle 
 impoflible to be folved ; but by fomc 
 skillfull Sphinx, fuch as you arc ; whofe 
 pains I will yet fo far fpare, as to acknow- 
 ledge, that I do in that little time I have 
 
 fpe^t 
 
[17] 
 ipent here, perceive that the immedi- 
 ate caufeot all this, is the Dif-union of 
 the People and the Governours; the 
 Difcontentment of the Gentry, and 
 Turbulency of the Commonalty ; al- 
 though without all Violence or I'umulr, 
 which is Miraculous. So that what I 
 now requefl: of you, is. That you w ill 
 pleafe to deduce particularly tome, the 
 Cauicsofthis Divifion, that when they 
 are laid open, I may proceed ( if you 
 think fit to permit it) from the Difeafe, 
 when known, to enquire out the Reme- 
 dies. 
 
 Eng^GenL^thtQ, I come to make you a- 
 iiy Anfwer, I muft thank you for the 
 Worthy and Honourable Charafter you 
 give of our Nation,, and ihall add to it. 
 That I do verily believe, that there are 
 nora more Loyal and Faithful People to 
 their Prince in the whole World, than 
 ours are ; nor that fear rnore to fall into^ 
 that flate of Confufionjin which we were 
 tw enty years fince ; and that, not only 
 this Parliament, which confifts of the 
 moft Eminent Men of the Kingdom,, 
 both for Eilates and Parts ; but all the 
 Inhabitants of this I fle in generd ; even^ 
 
Ei8] I 
 
 thofe (lb many of them as have their un- 
 derflandings yet entire) which were of 
 the Anti-royal Party, in our late Trou- 
 bles, have all of them the greateft hor- 
 rour imaginable^; to think of doing any 
 thing, that may bring this poor Country 
 into thofe Dangers and Uncertainties, 
 which then did threaten our Ruin; and 
 the rather for this Confideration ; that 
 neither the Wifdom of fome, who were 
 engaged in thofe Affairs, which I mud 
 aver to have been very great, nor the 
 fuccefs of their Conteil, which ended in 
 an abfolute Viftory, could prevail, fo 
 as to give this Kingdom any advantage ; 
 nay, not fo much as any fettlement, in 
 Satisfaftion and Requital of all the Blood 
 it had loiT:,Money it had fpent, and Haz- 
 zard it had run. Aclear Argument why wc 
 mud totally exclude a CivilWar from be- 
 ing any of the Remedies, when we come 
 to that point.I muf L add further, That as 
 we have as loyal Subjeds as are any 
 where to be found, fo we have as gracious 
 and good a Prince: I never having yet 
 heard that he did^ or attempted to do, 
 any the leaft Aft of Arbitrary Power, 
 in any publick Concern; nor did ever 
 
 take 
 
ti9i 
 
 take> or endeavour to take from arty 
 particular perfon the benefit of the Law, 
 And for his only Brother (although acci- 
 dentally he cannot be denyed to be ai 
 great motive of the Peoples unqiiietnefs) 
 all men muft acknowledge him to be a 
 molt Glorious and Honourable Prince ; 
 one who has expofed his Life feveral 
 times for the Satety and Glory of this 
 Nation; one who pays juftly and pun- 
 ctually his Debts, and manages his 0wni 
 Fortime difcreetly; and yet keeps the 
 beft Court and Equipage of any Subjeft 
 in Chriltendom ; is Courteous andAfifa* 
 ble to all ; and in fine, has nothihg int 
 his whole Conduft to be excepted a- 
 gainll, much lefs dreaded; excepting, 
 that he is believed to be of a Religion 
 contrary to the Honour of God, and 
 the Safety and Intereft of thiiJ People, 
 which gives themjufl Apprchenfions of 
 their Future Condition : But of this mat- 
 ter, we Ihall have occafion to Specu- 
 late hereafter ; in the mean time, fince 
 we have fuch a Prince, and fuch Sub- 
 jeds, we muft needs want the ordinary 
 caufeofDiftruft and Divifion, and there- 
 fore muft fcek higher to find out the O- 
 
 C 7. rigiR^i 
 
iriginal of this turbulent poflure we arc 
 in. 
 
 Doci. Truly you had need feek higher 
 0r lower to fatisfie us, for hitherto you^ 
 have but enforced the Gentleman's Que- 
 ftion, and made us more admire what 
 the Solution will be. 
 
 Eng. Gent. Gentlemen, then I fliall de • 
 lay you no longer: The Evil Counfellors,. 
 the Penfioner-Parliament, the Thorow- 
 pac'd Judges, the Flattering Divines, 
 the Bufie and Defigning Papifts, the ' 
 French Counfels, are not theCaufes of 
 ourMisfortunes,they are but the Effefts- 
 (as our prefcnt Diftradions are) of one 
 Primary Caufe; which is the Breach and 
 Ruin of our Government ; which ha- 
 ving been decaying for near two hun- 
 dred years, is in our Age brought fo 
 near to Expiration, that it lyes agoni- 
 zing, and can no longer perform the 
 Funftions of a Political Life, nor carry 
 on the work of Ordering and Preferving 
 Mankind: So that theShitts that ourCour- 
 ticrs have within fome years ufed, are 
 but fo manyTricks,or Gonclufions which 
 they are trying to hold Life and Soul to- 
 gether a while longer ; and have played 
 
 Handy- 
 
Handy-Dandy with Parliaments, and 
 efpccially with the Houfe of Commons, 
 (the only part which is now left entird* 
 ot the old Conftitution) by Adjourning, 
 and Proroguing, and Diilolving them 
 (contrary to the true meaning of theLaw) 
 as well in the Reign of our late King, as 
 during his Majeltics that now is. Where- 
 as indeed our Counfcilors (perceiving 
 the decay of the Foundation, as they 
 mull, if they can fee but one Inch into 
 the Politicks) ought to lia^ve Addreft 
 tliemlelvestotheJvmg to call a Parlia- 
 ment, the true Phy fician, and to lay o- 
 pen the Diftemper there, and fohavc 
 endeavoured a Cure, before it had been 
 too late, as I fear it now is : I mean the 
 .pieceing and patching up theOldGovern- 
 -ment. It is true, as the Divint Macl^ia- 
 vil fays. That Difeafes in Government 
 are like a Marafmus in the Body Natural, 
 which is very hard to be difcovered 
 whilefl it is Curable ; and after it comes 
 to be eafie to difcern, difficult if not im- 
 pollible to be Remedy'd ; yet it is to be 
 fuppofedthat the Counfellors arc , or 
 ought to be skillful Phyficians, and to 
 forefee the Seeds of State- Diflcmpers, 
 
 C 3 time 
 
lime enough to prevent the Death of the 
 patient ; elfe they ought in Confclenee 
 to excufe themfelves trom that fublime 
 Employment, and betake themfelves to 
 Callings more fuitable to their Capaci- 
 ties, bo that although for this Reafon 
 theMiniftersof State here are inexcufa- 
 b!e, and deferve all the Fury which 
 mufl: one time or other be let loofe a- 
 gainfl them, (except they fliall fudden^ 
 ly fly from the wrath to come, by find- 
 ing out in time, and advifing the true 
 means of fetting things to rights) yet 
 neither Prince nor People are in the mean 
 time to be blamed for not being able to 
 Condufl: things better. No more than 
 the Waggoner is to anfwer for his ill 
 guiding, or the Oxen for their ill draw- 
 ing the Waggon, when it is with Age 
 andillUflige broken, and the Wheels 
 Unferviceabie : Or the Pilot and Mar- 
 riners, fornot weathering outa Storm, 
 when the Ship hath fprung a planck. 
 And as in the Body of Man, fometimes 
 the Head and all the Members are in 
 good Order, nay, the Vital Parts are 
 found and entire ; yetifthere be a Con- 
 fiderable Putrifaftion in the humours^ 
 
 much 
 
[^3 3 
 
 much more, if the Blood (which the 
 Scriptiire calls the Life) be /Impure and 
 Corrupted • the Patient ceafes not to be 
 in great Danger, and oftentimes dies 
 without fome skilltul Phyfician; And 
 in the mean time the Head and all the 
 parts fufler, and are unquiet, full as 
 much, as if they were all immediately 
 affedled. So it is in every relpedt with 
 the Body Pohtick, or Comxmon-Wealth, 
 when their Foundations are moulder'd: 
 And although in boih thefeCares5thePati- 
 entscannot(^ though the Diftemper be in 
 their ownBodiesjknow what they ail,but 
 are forced to fend for fome Artift to tell 
 them; yet they ceafe not to beextreamly 
 uncafie and impatient, and lay hold of- 
 ten times upon unfuitable Remedies, and 
 imputetheir Malady to wrong and ridi- 
 culous Caufes. As Ibme people do here, 
 who think that the growth of Popery is 
 our only Evil, and that if we were fe- 
 cureagainft that, > our Peace and Settle- 
 ment were obtain'd, and that our Difeafe 
 needed no other Cure. But of this more 
 when we come to the Cure. 
 
 Noble Ven. Againft this Difcourfe, 
 certainly w^e have nothing to reply : but 
 
 C 4 muft 
 
Cm] 
 
 mufl: grant, that when any Govera- 
 iment is decay'd, it muft be mended, or 
 all will Ruine. But now we muft Re- 
 queft you to declare to us, how the Go- 
 vernment of Ertgland is decay'd, and how 
 it comes to be fo.For lam one of thofe Un- 
 skilful Perfons,that cannot difcern aState 
 Marafmus, when the danger is fo far OlC. 
 Eng. Gent. Then no mun living can ; 
 for your Government is this day the on- 
 ly Schoolin the World, that breeds fuch 
 Phyficians, and you are efteemed one of 
 theableft amongftthem: And it would 
 be manifeft to all the World for Truth; 
 although there were no Argument for it , 
 but the admirable Stability and Dura- 
 blenefs of your Government, ' which 
 hath laftcd above twelve hundred years 
 entire and perfed ; whileft all the reft 
 of the Countreys in Europe, have not 
 only changed Mafters very frequently 
 in a quarter of that time, but have vari- 
 ed and altered their Polities very often. 
 Which manifefts that you muft needs 
 have ever enjoyed a Succeflion of wife Ci- 
 tizens, that have had Skill and Ability to 
 forwarm you betimes of thofe Rocks a- 
 gainft which your excellent-built Veftel 
 might in time fplit. ' Nolle Ven: 
 
[^5] 
 NohleVen. Sir, you over-value, not 
 only me, but the Wifdom of my Fellow 
 Citizens; tor we have none of thefe 
 high Speculations, nor hath fcarce any 
 of our Body read Artjiotle , Plato, or 
 Ckeroy qr any of thofe great Artifls, 
 Ancient or Modern, who teach that 
 great Science of the Governing and In- 
 Tcreanng great States and Cities ; without 
 lludynig which Science no man can be fit 
 to dilcourfe pertinently of thefe matters ; 
 much lefs to found or mend a Govern- 
 ment, or fo much as find the defefts of it. 
 We only ftudy our own Government,and 
 that too chielly to be fit for advantagi^ 
 pus Employments, rather than to fore- 
 fee our dangers. Which yet I mufh 
 needs confels fome amongft usare pret- 
 ty good at, and will in a Harangue made 
 upon parting a Law, venture to tell us 
 what will be the Confcquence of it two 
 hundred years hence. But of thefe things 
 I ihali be very prodigal in my difcourle, 
 when you have Leiiure and Patience to 
 command mc to fay any thing of our 
 Polity ; in the mean time pray bepleaf 
 ed to go on with yourEdifying Tnllrudi- 
 on. 
 
 Eng. Gent 
 
[ t6 ] 
 
 Eng. Gent. Before I can tell you how 
 the Government of England came to te 
 decayed, I muft tell you what that Go- 
 vernment w^as, and what it now is : 
 And I fliould fay fomethmg too of Go- 
 vernment in General , but that I am 
 afraid of talking of that Subjeft, before 
 you who are fo exa£t a Judge of it. 
 
 Nohle Fen. I thought you had been 
 pleafed to have done with this Difcourfe, 
 I ailure you,Sir, if I had more skill in that 
 matter than ever I can pretend to,it would 
 but ferve to make me the fitter Auditor 
 of what you fliall fay on thatSubjedt. 
 
 Eng.Gent. Sir, in the Courfe of my 
 Reafoning upon this Point, I Ihall have 
 occafion to infift and expatiate upon ma- 
 ny things, which both my felfand o- 
 thers have Publifli'd in former times. 
 For which I will only make this excufe, 
 that the Repetition of fuch matters is the 
 more pardonable, becaufe they will be 
 at Icaft new to you, who are a ftranger 
 to our Affairs and Writings. And the rather 
 becaufe thofedifcourfes ihall be apply ed to 
 our prefent condition, andfuitedto our 
 prefent occafions. But I will fay no more, 
 tut obey you,andproceed.I will not take 
 
 upon 
 
upon me to fay, or fo much as Coaje- 
 <liure, how and when Government Be- 
 gan in the World, or what Government 
 IS moft Ancient : Hiflorymuft needs be 
 filent in that point, tor that Govern- 
 ment is more Ancient than Hiftory. 
 And there was never any Writer, but 
 was bred under fome Government, 
 which is neceflarily fuppofed to be the 
 Parent of all Arts and Sciences, and to 
 have produced them. And therefore it 
 would be as hard for a man to Write an 
 account of the beginning of the Laws and 
 Polity of any Country, except there 
 were memory of it, (which cannot be 
 before the firft Hiftoriographer) as it 
 would be to any perfon without Records 
 to tell the particular Hiftory of his own 
 Birth. 
 
 Dol:L Sir, I cannot comprehend you, 
 maynotHiftorians Write a Hiftory of 
 Matters done before they were born ? If 
 it were fo, no man could Write but of 
 his own times. 
 
 Erjg, Gent, My meaning is. Where 
 there are not Stories, or Records, ex- 
 tant ; for as for Oral Tradition, it lafts 
 but for one Age, and then degenerates 
 
 into 
 
[i8] 
 
 into Fable : I call any thing in Writing, 
 whereby the account of the Paflagesor 
 Occurrences of former times is derived to 
 pur knowledge, a Hiftory/although it be 
 not pcnd Methodically ,io as to make the 
 Author pafs for aWit.-And had rather read 
 the Authentick Records of any Country, 
 that is a CoUedion of their Laws and 
 Letters concerning! ranfaftions of State, 
 and the like, than the mod Eloquent 
 and Judicious Narrative that can be 
 made. 
 
 l>!ohle Ven. Methings, Sir, your dif 
 courfe fecms to imply, that we havend 
 account extant of the beginning of Go- 
 vernments ; pray what do you think of 
 the Books oi Mofes, which feem to be 
 pend on purpofe to inform us how he, 
 by Gods Command, led that People out 
 of Egypt into another Land, and in the 
 way made them a Government ? Befides, 
 does not Plutarch tells us, how Thefem 
 gathered together the difperfed Inhabi- 
 tants of Attica, brought them into one 
 City, afid under one Government of his 
 own making ? The like did Romulus in 
 Italy, and many others in divers Coun- 
 tries. 
 
 Eng.GeHt. 
 
[ 2^9 ]. 
 
 Eng. Gent. I never faid that we had 
 fK)t fufficient knowledge of the Original 
 of particular Governments; but it is e- 
 vident, that thefe great Legiflators had 
 feen, and lived under other Adminiflra- 
 tions, and had the help of Learned 
 Law- givers and Philofophers, excepting 
 the firU who had the Aid of God himfelt. 
 So that it remains undifcovered yetjio^v 
 the firil Regulation ot Man kind began : 
 And theretore I will take tor granted 
 that which all the Politicians conclude: 
 Which is, That Nece/iity made the firft 
 Government. For every mag by the 
 firft Law of Nature (which is common 
 to us and brutes) had, like Beafts in a 
 Pafture, right to every thing, and there 
 being no Property, each Individual, if 
 he were the ftronger, might feize what- 
 ever any other had poflclied himfelf of 
 before, which made a State of perpetual 
 War. To Remedy which, and the fear 
 that nothing fliould be long enjoyed by 
 any particular perfon (neither was any 
 mans Life in lafety) every man confent- 
 edto be debar'dof thatUniverfal Right 
 toall things^and confine himfelf to a qui- 
 et and fecure enjoyment of fuch a part rs 
 
 iliould 
 
[3o] . 
 iliould be allotted him: Thence carrie in 
 Ownerlliip, or Property ; to maintain 
 which it was neceliary to confent to 
 Laws, and a Government to put them in 
 Execution. Which of the Governments 
 now extant, or that have been formerly, 
 wasfirftjs not poITible now to be known; 
 but I think this muft be taken for granted, 
 that whatfoever theFrame orConltitution 
 was firft, it was made by the Perfwafion 
 and Mediation of fome Wife and Vertu- 
 ous Perfon, and confented to by the 
 whole Number. And then, that it was 
 inftitutedfor the good andprefervation 
 of the Governed, and not for the Exalta- 
 tion and Greatriefs of the Perfon or Per- 
 fons appointed to Govern ; The Reafon 
 whyl beg thisConcellion is,That it feems 
 very improbable, not to fay impoflible, 
 that a vaft number of people fliould ever 
 be brought to confent to put themfelvcs 
 under the Power of others, but for the 
 ends above faid, and fo lofe their Liber- 
 ty wit ii out advantaging themfelves in a- 
 ny thing. And it is full as impofiible 
 tliatany perfon (or perfons fo inconfi- 
 derable in number as Magiftrates and 
 Rulers are) fliould by force get an Empiric 
 
 to 
 
to themfelves. Though I am not ignorant 
 that a whole people have in imminent 
 Dangers, either from the Invafion of a 
 powerful Enemy, or from Civil Diltra- 
 cHons, put themfelves wholly into the 
 hands of one lUuftriousPerfonfor a time, 
 and that with good 6uccefs, under the 
 beft forms of Government.- But this is 
 nothing to the Original of States. 
 
 Noi/e Ven, Sir, I wonder how you 
 come topafs over theConfideration of Pa- 
 ternal Government,which is held to have 
 been the beginning of Monarchies ? 
 
 Eng.Gent. Really I did not think it 
 worth the taking notice of, for though 
 it be not eafie to prove a Negative, yet 
 I believe if we could trace all Founda- 
 tions of Polities that now are, or ever 
 came to our knowledge fince the 
 World began ; we Ihall find none of 
 them to have defcended from ratcrnal 
 Power ; we know^ nothing of Adatn\ 
 leaving the Empire to Catn^ ov Sethe: 
 It was impofiible for Noah to retain any 
 Jurifdidtion over his own three Sons ; 
 who were difperfcd into three parts of 
 the World, if our Antiquaries Calcu- 
 late right ; and as for Ahraham, whilil 
 
 If- ■ 
 lie 
 
He lived, as alfo his Son Ifaac, they were 
 but ordinary Fathers of FamiUes, and no 
 queftion governed their own Houihold 
 as all others do ; but when Jacob upon 
 his Death-bed did relate to his Chil- 
 dren, the Proiriife Almighty God had 
 made hisGrandfather,to make him a great 
 Nation, and give his Pofterity a fruitful 
 Territory, he fpeaks not one word of 
 the Empire oi Reuhen his firfl: born, but 
 fuppofes theni all equal : And fo they 
 were taken to be by Mofes, "whtn he divi- 
 ded theLand to them by Lot; and by Gods 
 command made them a Common-Wealth. 
 So that I beheve this fancy to have been 
 firlT: ftarted,not by the fdhd Judgement of 
 any man, but to flatter fome Prince, 
 and to aflert, for vvant of better Argu- 
 ments, the jus Divinum of Monarchy, 
 Nohle Ven. I have been impertinent in 
 interrupting you, but yet ribw I cannot 
 repent of it;imce your Anfwer hath given 
 me fo much fatisfadion ; but if it be fo as 
 youfaVjthat Government was at firft In- 
 flituted for thelntereftand Prefervation 
 of Mankind, how comes it to pafs. That 
 there are and have been fo many abfo- 
 lute Monarchies in the World, in which 
 
 it 
 
it feems that nothing is provided for, but 
 the Greatnefs and Power of the Prince. 
 £^g. Gent, I iiave prefumed to give 
 you already my Reafon, why I take [or 
 granted, that fuch a Powxr could never 
 be given by the Confent of any Pe::p]e, 
 for a perpetuity ; for though the People 
 oilfrael did dgainll the will oi San:u?i\ 
 and indeed of God himfelf demand, and 
 afterwards chufe themfelves a King; 
 yet he was never fuch a King as wo, 
 fpeak of; for that all the Orders of their 
 Commonwealth the Sanhedrim, the 
 Congregation of the People,the Princes of 
 the 1 ribes, &c. did ilill remain in being,as 
 hath been*excellently proved by a learned 
 Gentleman of our Nation, to whom I 
 refer you ; it may then be enquired into, 
 how thefe Monarchies at firil did arife. 
 Hiftory being in this point filent, as to 
 the Ancient Principalities, we will Con- 
 jefture, that fome of them might very 
 well proceed from the Corruption of bet- 
 ter Governments, w^hich mud neceflari- 
 ly caufe a Depravation in manners (as 
 nothing is more certain than that Poli- 
 tick defefts breed: Moral ones, as our 
 Nation is a pregnant Example) this De 
 D , bauclicry 
 
[34] 
 bauckery of manners might blind the 
 underflandings of a great many, deflroy 
 the Fortunes of others, and make them 
 indigent , irrftrfe into very many a neg- 
 lect and carelernefs of the pubhck good 
 (which in all fet led States^ is very much 
 Regarded) fo that it might eafily com^ 
 into the Ambition of fome bold afpiring 
 Perfon to affe£t Empire, and as eafily 
 into his Power, by tair pretences with 
 fome, and promifes of advantages with 
 others, to procure Followers, and gain' a 
 numerous 1 arty, either to Ufurp Ty- 
 ranny over his own Country, or to lead 
 men forth to Conquer and Subdue ano- 
 tlier. Thus it is fuppofed that Nimred 
 got his Kingdom ; who in Scripture is^ 
 called a Great Hunter before God, whicji 
 Exporters interpret, A great Tyranf. 
 The Modern Defpotical Powers have 
 been acquired by one of thefe two ways, 
 cii her by pretending by the firft Founder 
 rlicreo.^, that he had a Divine Million 
 and fo gaining not only Followers, but 
 even ealie Accefs in fome places wi|:ho\jt 
 Force to Empire., and afterwards dilate- 
 iitg their Power by great Cdnqwefts. 
 Thus Mahomet and Cingis Can began, and 
 
 eftabiiiV 
 
" lis] 
 
 eftablilhed the Sar^rzen arid Tartarla'^ 
 Kingdoms; or by a long Series of Wif^ 
 dom in a Prince, or chief Magiftrate 
 of a mixt Monarchy, and his Council^ 
 who by reafon of the Sleepinefs and In- 
 advertency of the People, have been a- 
 ble to extinguiih the great Nobility, or 
 fender them Inconfiderable ; and {o by 
 degrees taking away from the People 
 their Protedors, render them Slaves. 
 So the Monarchies of Frame, and lome 
 other Countries, have grown to what 
 they are at this day ; there being left 
 but a Shaddow of the three States in a- 
 hy of thefe Monarchies, and fo no bounds 
 remaining to the Regal Power ; but fince 
 Property remains Itill to the Subjefts> 
 thpfe Governments may be faid to be 
 changed, but not founded or eflabliflied ; 
 fbr there is no Maxim more Infallible and 
 Holding in any Science, than this is irt 
 the Politicks, That Empire is founded 
 in Property : Force or Fraud may alter 
 a GovernmcQt ; but it is Property that 
 muO: Found and Eternile it: Upon this 
 undenyable Aphorifme we are to build 
 moll: of our fubfequcnt Reafoning, in 
 the mean time we may fuppofe, that 
 
C3^] ' 
 hereafter the great power of the King of 
 France may diminiih much, when his en- 
 raged and opprelled Subjects come to be 
 commanded by a Prince oflefs Courage, 
 Wifdom, and Mihtary Vertue, when it 
 will be very hard for any fuch King to 
 Go vei*n Tyrannically a Country which 
 is not entirely his own. 
 
 Dott. Pray, Sir, give me leave to ask 
 you by the way, what is the Reafon that 
 here in our Country, where the Peerage 
 is leflened fufficiently, the King has not 
 gotteH as great an Addition of Power as 
 accrews to theCrown in France > 
 
 Eng, Gent. You will underiland that, 
 Doftor, before I have finiflit this dif 
 courfe; but to Hay your Stomach till 
 then, you may pleafe to know that in 
 France the greatnefs of the Nobility 
 which has been lately taken from them, 
 did not confift in vaft Riches and Reve- 
 nues, but in great Priviledges,and Jurifdi- 
 dions, which obliged the People to o- 
 bey them ; whereas our great Peers in 
 former times had not only the fame great 
 Dependences, but very Confiderablc 
 Re\^enuesbefides, in Demefnes, and o- 
 
 ther- 
 
[373 
 therwife : This Vadallage over the Peo- 
 ple, which the Peers of France had, be- 
 ing abohlht, the Power over thofe 
 Tenants, which before was in their 
 Lords, tell naturally and of courle 
 into the Crown, although the Lands 
 and Polleilions diverted ot thofe Depen- 
 dences did and do ftill remain to the 
 Owners; whereas here in Enghnd^ 
 though the Services are for the moft 
 part worn out, and infigwificant ; yet 
 for want of Providence and Policy in 
 former Kings, who could not forefee 
 the danger afar ofi; Entails have been 
 fufferedto be cut ofT; and fo two parts 
 in ten of all thofe vafl: Eftates, as well 
 Mannours as Demefnes, by the Luxury 
 and Folly of the Owners, have been 
 within thefe two hundred years pur- 
 chafed by the lefler Gentry and theCom- 
 mons ; which has been fo far from advan- 
 taging the Crown, that it has made 
 the Country fcarce governable by Mo- 
 narchy.- But if you pleafe, I will go on 
 with my difcourfe about Government, 
 and come to this again hereafter? 
 
 Nolle Ven. I befeech you, Sir, do. 
 
 Eng, Gent, \ cannot find by' the fmall 
 D 3 read- 
 
[38] 
 reading I have, that there were any o^ 
 ther Governments in the World Ancientv 
 ly than thefe three, Monarchy, Ar/liocracyy 
 and Democracy. For the firft, I have no 
 light out of Antiquity to convince me, 
 that there were in old time any other 
 Monarchies, but fuch as were abfolutely 
 Defpotical; all Kingdoms then, as well iri 
 Greece (as Macedon, Ephus, and the like ; 
 and where it is faid, the Princes exerci? 
 fed their Power moderately) as in Afiay 
 being altogether unlimited by any Laws, 
 or any Aifemblies of Nobility or Peo 
 pie. Yet I mud conMSiArifiotle.whtn he 
 reckons up the Corruptions of thefe 
 three Governments, calls Tyranny the 
 Corruption of Monarchy ; which if he 
 means a Change of Government, (as it 
 is in the Corruptions of the other two) 
 then it muft follow, that the Philofopher 
 knew of fome other Monarchy at the 
 iiril:, which afterwards degenerated into 
 Tyranny , that is, into Ai±)itrary Power ; 
 for fo the Word Tyranny is mod com- 
 monly taken, though in modern Lan- 
 guages it fignifiies the ill Exercife of Pow- 
 er; lor certainly Arbitrary Government 
 cannot be called Tyranny, where the 
 
 whole 
 
[39] 
 whole Property is in the Prince (as we 
 reafonably iuppofc it to have been in thofe 
 Monarchies) no more than it is Tyranny 
 tor you to govern your ovvn Houfe and 
 Eftate as you pleafe : But it is polFible A- 
 rtflotle might not in this fpcak fo accord- 
 ing to Terms of Art, but might mean, 
 jthat the ill Government of a is^ingdom 
 or Family is Tyranny. However we 
 have one Example, that puzzles Politici- 
 ans, and that is Egypt, vviiere Fharaoh is 
 tcalledKing; and yet we fee, that till 
 Jofepfh time he had not the whole Pro- 
 perty ; for the Wifdom of that Patriarch 
 taught his Mailer a way to make a new 
 •ufeofthat Fam.ine, by telling him, that 
 ifthey would buy their Lives, and fell 
 . their Eftatcs (as they did afterwards, and 
 preferve themfelves by the Kings Bread) 
 they ihail ferve Pharaoh; which lhew« 
 that y^/?^/?/7 knew well, that Empire was 
 fmnded in Property : But moft of the Mo- 
 dern Writers in Polity, are of Opinion, 
 that E^ypt was not a Monarchy till then, 
 though the Prince might have the Title 
 of King, asthe//d';v7c///'/(f'jhadin Sparta, 
 and Romulus and the other Kings had in 
 Rome; both which States Wi^x^ Inftitu- 
 
 D 4 tcf} 
 
ted CommojiWealths. They give good 
 Conjediires for this their Opinion, too 
 many ^to be here mentioned ; only one is. 
 That Originally (as they go about to 
 prove) ail Arts and Sciences had their 
 Rife in Egypt, which they think very 
 improbable to have been under a Monar- 
 chy. But this Pofition, That all Kingpin 
 former tim.es were abfolute,is not fo Ef- 
 fential to the intent I have in this DiP i 
 CDurfe, which is to prove, That in all 
 States, of what kind foever, this Apho- 
 rifme takes place : Imperium fundatur in 
 Dominio, So that if there were mixed 
 Monarchies, then the King had not all 
 tlie Property; but thofe who fliared 
 with him in the Adminiftration of the 
 Soveraignty, had their part, whether it 
 were the Senate, tlie People, or both; 
 or if he had no Companions in the Sove- 
 raign Power, he had no Sharers like- 
 wiie in the Dominion or Poflefllon of the 
 Land. For that is all we mean by Pro- 
 perty, in all this Difcourfe; for as for 
 Perfonal Eilare, the Subjeds may enjoy 
 it inthe largeft Proportion, without be- 
 ing able to invade the Empire : The 
 Pnnce may when he pleafes take away 
 
 their 
 
[41 ] 
 their Goods, by his Tenants and Vaf' 
 fals fwithout an Army) which are his 
 Ordinary Force, and anfvvers ro our 
 Poffe ComitAtus, But the Subjcdls with 
 their Money cannot invade his Crown. 
 So that all the Defcription we need 
 make of this Kind or Form of Govern- 
 raerit, is, That the whole poire/lion of 
 the Country, and the whole power lies 
 in the Hands and BrealT: of one man ; he 
 can make Laws, break and repeal them 
 when hepleafes, or difpenfe with them 
 in the mean time when he tliinks fit; in- 
 terpofe in all Judicatories, in behalf of his 
 Favourites, take away any particularmans 
 perfonal Eftate,and his Lite too, without 
 the formality of a Criminal Procefs, or 
 Trial;fend aDagger,or aHalter to his chief 
 Minillers, and command them to make 
 thcmfelves away ; and in fine, do all that 
 his Will or his Intereft fuggefts to him. 
 Doci. You have dwelt long here upon 
 an Argumentation, That the Ancients 
 had no Monarchies, but what were 
 Arbitrary. 
 
 Eng, Gent. Pray give me leave to 
 faveyourObjeftions to that point, and 
 toafiureyoufirft, That I will not take 
 
 upoq 
 
upon me to be fo pofitive in that; for 
 that I cannot pretend to have read ill 
 the Hiftorians and Antiquaries that ever 
 Writ ; nor have I fo perfect a memory 
 as to remember, or make ufe of, in a 
 Verbal and Tranfient Reafoning, all that 
 I have ever read : And then to alTure 
 you again, that I build nothing upoa 
 that Allertion, and fo your Objeftion 
 will be needlefs, and only take up 
 time. 
 
 Do[h Youmiftake me, I had no in- 
 tent to ufe any Argument or Example 
 againft your Opinion in that ; but am 
 very willing to beheve that it may be fo. 
 What I was going to fay was this, that 
 you have inlifted much upon the point of 
 Monarchy, and made a ftrange defcripti- 
 on of it, whereas many of the Anci- 
 ents, and almofi: all the Modern Writers, 
 magnifie it to be the bell of Govern- 
 ments. 
 
 Eng. Gent. I liave laid nothiilg to the 
 contrary. I have told you Je fdlo 
 what it is, which I believe none willde- 
 ny. The Philofophers faid it was the bell 
 (jovernment ; but witk this reftri<3;ion, 
 uhi fhilojcphi regnant^ and they had an 
 
 Example 
 
[43] 
 Example of it, infome few Roman Em- 
 jxrours ; but in the moft turbulent 
 times of the Common- wealth, and Fafti- 
 ons between the Nobility and thePeople, 
 Romew^s much more full of Vertuous 
 and Heroick Citizens, then ever it was 
 under Aurelius, or Antoninus : For the 
 Moderns that arc of that Judgement, 
 they are moft of them Divines, not Po* 
 liticians, and fomething may be faid in 
 their behalf, when by their good Preach- 
 ing,they caninfufe into their imaginary 
 Prmce (who feems already to have an 
 Image of the Power of God) the Ju- 
 llice, VVifdom, and Goodnefs too of 
 the Deity. 
 
 I^obleVen, We are welf fatisfied with 
 the Progrefs you have hitherto made in 
 this matter ; pray go on to the two o- 
 ther Forms ufed amongft the Ancients, 
 and their Corruptions, that fo we may 
 come to the Modern Governments, and 
 fee how England ftands, and how it 
 came to decay, and what rauft Re- 
 build it. 
 
 Eng. Gent. You have very good Rea- 
 fon to haften me to that ; for indeed, all 
 that has been faid yet, is but as it were 
 
[44 3 
 a Preliminary difcourfe to the know- 
 ledge of the Government of £;?^^/^;/^, and 
 its decay : when it comes to the Cure, I 
 hope you will both help me, for both 
 your felf and the DoCtor area thoufand 
 times better than I at Remedies. But 
 I fliall difpatch the other two Govern- 
 ments. Artftocracy, or Optimacy, is a 
 Common-wealth, where the better lort, 
 that is, the Eminent and Rich men, have 
 the chief Adminiftration of the Govern- 
 ment ; I fay, the chief, becaule there are 
 very few 9inc\tntOptmacres)Dut thePeopIe 
 had fome fhare, as 'mSparta,'whQrQ they 
 had power to Vote, but notDebate ; for fo 
 the Oracle of Apollo, brought by Lycur- 
 gus from Delphos, fettles it ; But the 
 truth is, thefe people were the natural 
 Spartans. For Lycurgus divided the Coun- 
 try or Territory of Laconia into 39000 
 Shares ; whereof Nine thoufand only 
 of thefe Owners were Inhabitants of 
 Sparta ; the refl lived in the Country : 
 fo that although Thucidides call it an A- 
 riftocracy , and fo I follow him, yet it was 
 noneof thofeAriftocracies ufually defcri- 
 bed by the Politicians, where the Lands 
 of theTerritory were in a great deal fewer 
 
 Haad§, 
 
Hands. But call it what you will, where 
 tver there was an Ariftocracy, there the 
 Property, or very much the Ovcr-bal- 
 lance of it, was in the hands of the Ari- 
 floi^ or Governours, be they more 
 or fewer'; for if the People hav^e the 
 greatefl intereft in the Property, they 
 will, and mud have it in the Empire: 
 A notable example of it is RomCy the befl 
 and moft glorious Government that ever 
 the Sun law ; where the Lands being e- 
 qually divided amongft the Tribes, that 
 is the people ; it was impo/Tible for the 
 Patrkii to keep them quiet, till they 
 yielded to their defires, not only to 
 have their Tribunes, to fee that nothing 
 pailed into a Law without their confent, 
 but alfo to have it declared, that both 
 the Confuls fliould not only be chofen 
 by the people (as they ever were, and 
 the Kings too before them) but that they 
 might be elefted too, when the people 
 pleafed, out of F/d-^d-i^;? Families, So that 
 now I am come to Democracy, Which 
 you fee is a GoverniYient where the 
 chief part of the Soveraign Power, and 
 the excrcifc of it, rcfides in the People ; 
 and where the Style is, Juffn populi au- 
 
 thoritatc 
 
14^1 
 thoritate patrum. And it doth confifi 
 of three fundamental Orders. The 
 Senate propofing, the People refolving, 
 and the Magiitrates executing. This Go- 
 vermentis much more Powerful than an 
 Ariflocracy, bccaufe the latter cannot 
 arm the People, for fear they fliould 
 feizeupon the Government, and there- 
 fore are fain to make life of none but 
 Strangers and Mercinaries for Souldi- 
 ers; which,as the Divine Machtavilfsiys, 
 has hindred your Common wealth of 
 Venice from mounting up to Heaven, 
 whither thofe incomparable Orders, 
 and that venerable Wildom ufed by 
 your Citizefls in keeping to them^ 
 would have carried you, if in all your 
 Wars you had not been ill ferved. 
 
 DolI. Well, Sir, pray let me ask you 
 6ne thing concerning Venice : How do' 
 you make oiit your Imperium fUndatur 
 zn domin/o there } Have the Gentlemen 
 there, who are the Party governing, the 
 podellion of the whole Territory? Doesr 
 not property remain entire to theGeatle- 
 men, and other Inhabitants in the feve- 
 ral Countries oiPadua, Brefcia^ Vkenza^ 
 Verona, BergamOy Creman, Trcv'ifiy and 
 
 Friult^ 
 
[47] 
 Fiiult, as alfo in the Vltramarine Pro- 
 vinces, and Iflands^ And yet I believe 
 you will not deny, but that the Govern- 
 ment diVemce is as well founded, and 
 hath been ot as long continuance as any 
 th,itnpwMS, or ever was in the World. 
 Eng, Gent, Doctor, I fliall not an- 
 fwer you in this, becaufe I am fure it 
 will be better done by this Gentleman, 
 who is a worthy Son of that honourable 
 Mother. 
 
 NohleVen, \ thought you had faid. 
 Sir, thatwelhould have done Compli- 
 menting; but fmce you do Command 
 meto clear theObjeftion made by our 
 learned Doftor , I iliall prefume to tell 
 you, firft how our City began. The 
 Goths, Hurts, and Lomhards comings 
 with all the Violence and Cruelty im- 
 fngginable, to invade that part ot Italy' 
 which we now call Terra firma , and' 
 where our Anceftors did then inhabit, 
 forced them in great numbers to feek a 
 Ihelter amongfl: a great many littleRocks, 
 or //Z^Wj^which flood very thick in a vafl 
 Lake, or rather Marfli, which is made by 
 th^ 4driat'iqu€ Sea, we call it Layma ; 
 h^re they began to build, and getting 
 
 Boats, 
 
f 
 
 [^48 ] _ _ .. 
 t5oats, made themfelvesProvifidns'braljf 
 kind from tfie Land ; from whence in- 
 numerable people began to come to them, 
 finding that they could fubfift, and 
 that the barbarous people had no Boats 
 to attack them, nor that they could be 
 invaded either by Horfe or Foot without 
 them. Our firft Government, and which 
 lalied for many years, was no more 
 than what is pradtifed in many Coun- 
 try Parifhes in Italy, and poihbly here 
 too, where the Clerk, or any other 
 perfon, calls together the chief of the In- 
 habitants to confider of Pariih-bufinefs, 
 aschufmg of Offi(rers, making of Rates, 
 and tht like. So in Fenke, when there 
 was any publick provifion to be made by 
 way of Law, orotherwife, fome Offi- 
 cers went about to perfonsof the great- 
 eft Wealth and Credit, tointreat them 
 to meet arid confult ; rrom whence our 
 Senate is called to this day Configlio de 
 /r^g.?//, which in oiir Barbarotis Idiom is 
 as much as Prc<^ati m Tufcftn Language : 
 Our fecurity incrcafed dayly, and fo by 
 consequence our Number and otir Rich- 
 es; for by this time there began to 6e 
 another inundation of Saracens upon A^ 
 
 (ia, 
 
[49] 
 fia Minor, which forced a great many 
 of the poor people ot Greece to fly to us 
 for protection, giving us the pofleffion 
 of fome Iflands, and other places upon 
 the Continent: This opened us a Trade, 
 and gave a beginning to our greatnefs ; 
 but chiefly made us confider what Go- 
 vernment was fittefl to conferve our 
 felves, and keep our Wealth (for we did 
 not then much dream of Conquefls, elfe 
 without doubt we muft have made a 
 popular Government) we pitcht upon 
 an Arifiocracy, by ordering that thofe 
 who had been called to Council for that 
 prefent year, and for four years before, 
 ihould have the Government in their 
 hands, and all their Pofterity after them 
 for ever ; which made firfl the diftinfti- 
 on between Gentlemen and Citizens ; 
 the people, who confided of divers 
 Nations, moftofthem newly come to 
 inhabit there, and generally feeking 
 nothing but fafety and eafe, willingly 
 confented to this change, and fo this 
 State hath continued to thi^day ; tiiouf^Ji 
 the fcveral Orders and Counfels have 
 been brought in fince, by degrees, as 
 ©ur NobiUty encreafed, and lor other 
 
 E caufes 
 
oiufes.Uunder this Government- wc liav^^ 
 made fome Coaquefls in Italy, and 
 Greece, for our City ftood like a Wall 
 between the two great Torrents of Goths 
 and Sarazefjs ; and as cither of their 
 Empires dcchn'd, it was eafie for us, 
 without heing very Warlike, to pick up. 
 fome pieces ot each fide; as for the Go. 
 vcrnment of thcfe Conquefts, we did^ 
 not think fit to divide the Land amongft 
 our Nobility, for fear of Envy, and the, 
 effefts of it ; much lefs did we think it- 
 ad vifeable to plant Colonies of our Peo- 
 ple, \\h\d\ would have given the Pow- 
 er into their hands, but we thought it 
 the bed way for our Government to^ 
 leave the people their Property, tax therrKv 
 Vi^hat we thought fit,and keepthem under 
 by Governours and Citadels, and ioit^ 
 fliort make them a Province. So that 
 how the Doftors Riddle is folved ; for I 
 fuppofc this Gentleman did not mean 
 that his Maximc fliould reach to Pro- 
 vincial Governments. 
 
 Eng. Gent. No, Sir, fo far from that, 
 I hat it is jufl: contrary; for as in Natio- 
 nal or Domeftick Government, whers 
 a Nation is Governed either by it5 own 
 
 people 
 
[51] 
 people, or its own Prince, there can be 
 no fettled Governrtient, except they 
 have the Rule who poflefs the Country, 
 So in ProviiKial Governments, if they 
 be wifely ordered, no man muft have a- 
 ny the lead ihare in the managing Af- 
 fairs of State, but flrangers, or fuch as 
 have no ihare or pi^rt in the pofleffions 
 there, for elfe they will have a very 
 good opportunity of ihaking off their 
 Yoak. 
 
 Dot't, That is true; and we are fb 
 wife here (I mean our Anceflors were) 
 as to have made a Law, That no Native 
 in Ireland can be Deputy tliere: Eut, 
 Sir, being fullyfatisfied in my demand, 
 by this Gentleman ; I befcech you to 
 go on to what you have to fay, before 
 you come to Enqland. 
 
 Eng. Gent, I maill then offer two things , 
 to your Obfervation ^ the firft is, That 
 in all times and places, where any great 
 Heroes, or Legiflators, have founaed a 
 Government, by gathering people toge- 
 ther to build a City, or to invade any 
 Countrey to poffcfs it, before they came 
 to dividing the conquered Lands, they 
 did always very maturely deliberate uni- 
 
 E 2 tier 
 
d€r what Form or Model- of Govern^ 
 ment they meant to Jive, and according- 
 ly made the Partition of the PolIelJions; 
 Mofes, Thefeus, and Romulus, Founders of 
 Democracies y6:\v\AtA theLand equally: Zi. 
 curgus who meant anO/^/^/w^c>',made accr- 
 tam number of Shares,which he intended 
 to be in the hands of tJie People of Laco- 
 nia.CyrusfisA other conqueringMonarchs 
 before him, took all for themfelves and 
 SuccefTors, which is obferved in thofe 
 Eaftern Countries to this day, and which 
 has made thofe Countries»continue ever 
 iince under the fame Government, 
 though Conquered aad poflefTed very 
 often by feveral Nations : This brings 
 me to the fecond thing to be obferved, 
 which is. That wherever this apportion^ 
 ■rnent of Lands came to he changed tn any 
 kind, the Government either changed with 
 ^t, or was wholly in a flate of confufion : 
 And for this reafon Licurgus, the great- 
 eft Pohtician that ever Founded any Go- 
 vernment, took a fure way to fix Pro- 
 perty by Confounding it, and bringing 
 all into Common: And fo the wiiole 
 number of the Natural Spartans, who 
 inhabited the City of Lacedcmon^ eat 
 
 and 
 
[^3 3 
 
 asd drank in their feveral convives toge- 
 tlier : And as long as they continued fo 
 to do, they did not only preferve their 
 Government entire, and that for a long- 
 er time than we can read of any Common- 
 Wealth that ever lalled amongft the An- 
 cients, but held as it were the principali- 
 ty oi Greece. The Athenians for want 
 oF fome Conflitutions to fix Property, as 
 Thejeus placed it, were in danger of utter 
 ruine, which they had certainly cncoun- 
 ter'd, if the good Genius (as they then 
 caird it) of that People, had not raifed 
 them up a fecond Founder, more than 
 fix hundred years after the firft, which 
 was Solon : And becaufe the Hiftory of 
 this matter will very much conduce to 
 the illuftrating of this Aphorifme we 
 have laid down, I will prefume fo much 
 ojpon your patience as to make a Ihort 
 recital of it, leaving you to fee it more 
 at large in PlHtarch and other Author^'. 
 cThe Lands in tlie Territory of Attica 
 -ovvhich were in the pofie/fion of the Com- 
 mon People, (for what reafon Hiftory is 
 filcnt) were for Debt all Mortgaged to 
 - the great Men of the City oi Athens, and 
 '')the Owners having no poflibility of Re- 
 
 E 3 . deeming 
 
deeming their Eftates, were treating to j 
 Compound with their Creditors , and ^ 
 deUvcr up their Lands to tliem *. Solon 
 (who was one of thofe State Phyficians 
 we fpake oQ was much troubled at this, 
 and harangued daily to the Nobility and 
 People agamfl it, telling them firft, that 
 it was impollible for the 6 redacts to re- 
 fifl: the Metres (who were then growing 
 up to a powerful Monarchy) except A- 
 thens the fecond City oi Greece did conti- 
 nue a Democracy ; That it was as Impof- 
 fiblethc People could keep their Empire, 
 except they kept their Lands, nothing 
 being more contrary to Nature, than 
 that thofe who poflefs nothing in a 
 Country can pretend to Govern it. They 
 were all fenlible of his Reafons, and of 
 their own Danger, but the only Reme- 
 dy ( which was , that the great Men 
 Ihould forgive the Common People 
 their Debts) would not at all be digeft- 
 ed;To that the whole City noW fully 
 underftanding their condition, were con- 
 tinually in an uproar , and the People 
 flock'd about Solon, v?henever he came a- 
 broad, defiring him to take upon him 
 the Government, and be their Prince, 
 
 and 
 
Iff] 
 
 "^nd they would make choice of him the 
 ^next time they affembled. He told them 
 "no, he woiiJd never be a Tyrant, efpeci- 
 'iilly in his own Country ; meaning, that 
 he who had no more fliare than ortier o{ 
 the Nobles, could not Go?ern the reft, 
 without being an Ufurjxir or T} rant : 
 But this he did to oblige his Citizens, he 
 frankly forgave all the Debts tliat any et' 
 the People owed to him, and rcleafed 
 their Lasds immediately ; and this a- 
 tTiounted to fifteen Attkk Talents of 
 Gold, a vafl: fum in thofe days ; and be- 
 took himfclf to a voluntary Exile, in 
 which he \^rited Tholes, tind went to vifit 
 -the Oracle of De/plm, and offer up his 
 'Prayers to Jpo//o for the prefervati- 
 'on of his City": In rettirn of wliich (as 
 the People then belkved) the hearts of 
 the great ones were fo dianged andin- 
 largcd, that they readily agreed to remit 
 all their Debts to tjic People, upon Con- 
 dition that SnUn wd^ild take the pains to 
 make them a New Model of Govern- 
 ment, and Laws fuitable to a Democra- 
 cy, which he as readily accepted and 
 performed ; by vertue of which that 
 City grew and continued long the Great- 
 
 E 4 eft. 
 
[56] 
 
 eft , the Juileft , the mbft Vcrtuam, 
 Learned and Renowned of all that Age ; 
 drove the Perjians afterwards out of 
 Greece, defeated them both by Sea and 
 Land, with a quarter of their number oi' 
 Ships and Men ; and produced the great- 
 eft Wits and Philofophers that ever li- 
 ved upon Earth. The City of Athens In- 
 ftituted a Solemn Feaft in Commemora- 
 tion of that great Gencrofity and Self- 
 denial of the NobiUty ; who Sacrificed 
 their own Ihtereft to the prefervation of 
 their Country : which Feaft was called 
 the Solemnity oi thtSeifa^heta, which 
 ilgnifies recifion or aboUtion of Debts, 
 and was obferved with Proceftions, Sacri- 
 fices and Games, till the time of the Ro- 
 man sDommion over therri (who encou- 
 raged ity) and ever till the change of Re- 
 ligion in Greece, and Invafion of the Sa- 
 razens. The Romans having ommitted 
 m their Inftitution to provide for the 
 fixing of Property, and fo the Nobility 
 called Patriciiy beginning to take to 
 themfelves a greater fliare in the con- 
 quer'd Lands than had been ufual (for in 
 the firft times of the Commonwealth un- 
 der Romulus, and ever after, it was always 
 
 praftifed 
 
t57] 
 pfadifed to divide the Lands equally a- 
 mongll: the Tribes) this Innovation llir- 
 red up Lkintus Stolo, then Tribune of 
 tJie People, to propofe a Law ; which, 
 although it met with much difficulty, 
 yet at lafl: was confented to ; by which it 
 was provided , tiiat no Roman Citizen, 
 of what degree foever, iliould poflefs a- 
 bove five hundred Acres of Land ; and 
 for the remaining part of the Lands which 
 lliould be Conquer 'd, it was Ordered to 
 be equally divided, as formerly, amongll 
 the Tribes : This found admittance, after 
 muchoppofition, becaufe it did provide 
 but for the future, no Man at that time 
 being owner of more Lands, than what 
 was lawful for him to pollefs ; and if this 
 law had been llridtly obfervcd to the laft, 
 that glorious Commonwealth might have 
 fubfilted to this day, for ought wc 
 know. 
 
 Doltor. Some other Caufc would have 
 been the Ruine of it, what think you of 
 a Foreign Conquefl: ? 
 
 E>ig,Gent. Oh Z)<?i'/<7;', if they had kept 
 
 their Poverty they had kept their Go-- 
 
 vernment and their Vertuetoo,and then 
 
 it Iiad not been an cafie matter to fubdue' 
 
 • ■^n1-' them> 
 
{58] 
 ^hem, Quos vult perdere Jupiter dement df\ 
 Breach of Rules and Order catjfes Divifi- 
 on, and Divifion when it comes to be 
 Incurable, expofes a Nation almoft as 
 much as a Tyrannical Government does. 
 The Goths 'mA Vandals, \aA they Invaded 
 in thofe days, had met with the fame fuc- 
 cdis which befell the Cymhri ^ and the 
 Teutones, I mufl: confels, a Foreign In- 
 vafion is a Formidable thing, when a 
 Commonwealth is weak in Territory 
 and Inhabitants, and that the Invader is 
 numerous and Warlike .• Arid fo we fee 
 the Romans were in danger of utter ruine 
 when they were firft attacqued by the 
 Gauls under Brennus\ The like hazzard 
 may be feared, when a Commonwealth 
 is adaulted by another of equal Vertue, 
 and a Commander of equal Addrefs and 
 Valour to any of themfelvcs. Thus the 
 Romans run the risk of their Liberty and 
 Empire, in the War of Hanihal; but 
 their Power and their Vertue grew to 
 tthat heighth in that cont^, that when 
 it was ended, I believe, that if they had 
 preferved the Foundation of their Go- 
 vernment entire, they had been Invin- 
 s:ible : And if I were alone of this Opini- 
 on, 
 
on, Imightbc aihamed; butlambackt 
 by the Judgment of your Incomparable 
 Country -man Machiavil ; and no Man 
 swill condemn either of us of ralhnefs, if 
 hcfirft confider, what fm.all States, that 
 have flood upon right bottoms,ha\/edone 
 to defend their Liberty againfl: great Mo- 
 narchs ; as is to be fcen in the example of 
 the little Commonwealth of Jthcns^ 
 which deflroyed the Fleet ot Xerxess-^n- 
 fifting of a thoufand VeiTels, in the 
 Streightsof SaUmisy and his Land Army 
 of three hundred thoufand in the Plains 
 of MarnthoK, and drove them out of 
 Greece ; for though the whole Confede- 
 rates wereprefent at the Battel off Av;^^^^, 
 yet the Athenian Army fmgly under 
 thcix G^wtr^X M/ltiades, gained that re- 
 nowned Battel of ALirath/f, 
 
 Nolle Fen. I bcfeech you, Sir, how 
 was it poflible, or pradticable, that the 
 A'(?wj;/A Conquering fo many and fo re- 
 mote Provinces, lliouldyet have been a- 
 ble to prefer ve their Agrarian Law, and 
 divide all thofe Lands equally to their 
 Citizens ? Or if it had been poffible, yet 
 it would have ruin'd their City, by fend- 
 ing all their Inhabitants away ; and by 
 
 taking 
 
160 2 
 
 talking in Strangers in their room, they 
 mufl: neceilarily have had people lels 
 Vertuous and lefs Warhke, and (o both 
 their Government and their MiUtary 
 Difcipline mufl have been Corrupted; 
 tor it is not to be immagined, but the 
 People would have gone with their Fa- 
 milies to the place where their Lands 
 Jay : So that it appears that the Romans 
 did not provide, in the making and fram- 
 ing their firft Polity, for fo great Con- 
 quefts as they aitcrwards made* 
 
 Eng, Gent. Yes, furely they did ; from 
 cheir fir ft beginning they were Found- 
 ed in War, and had neither Land nor 
 Wives but what they fought for ; but yet 
 what you objedt were very weighty, if 
 there had not been aconfideration of that 
 early : For afibonas that great and wife 
 People had fubdued the Samnites on the 
 Eajl, and brought their Arms as far as 
 ^A^Greek Plantations, in that part oi Ita- 
 ly which is now called the Kingdom of 
 ir^iples; and Weft ward, had reduced ail 
 the Tufcans under their Obedience, as far 
 •as the River Amus, they made that and 
 the River Volturnus (which runs by the 
 Walls of Capua) the two Boundaries of 
 
 their 
 
[6i] 
 
 fheir Empire, which was called Domicf^ 
 Hum Imperil. Thefe were the ne plus ul- 
 tra^ lor what tliey Conquered between 
 thefe two Rivers, was all confilcated and 
 divided amongft the Tribes; tlie Rujtick 
 Tribes being twenty fev^en, and the?/;- 
 hiwc Tribes nine, which mode thirty fix 
 in all. The City Tribes were like our 
 Companies in Loidon , confifling of 
 Tradefmen. The Country Tribes v\ere 
 ^livided like Shires, and there was fcarce 
 any Landed Men, who Inhabited in the 
 City, but he was written in- that Tribe 
 where his Eflate lay ; fo that the Ruji/ck 
 Tribes (though tliey liad all equal Voices) 
 were ot far more Credit and Reputation 
 than the TJrbane. Upon the days of the 
 Comtia^ which were very well known*, 
 as many as tliought fit amongfl the 
 Country Tribes , came to give thciV 
 Voices^ though every Tribe was very 
 numerous otlnhabitants that lived in th"^^ 
 City. Now the Jgrarian did not extend 
 to any Lands conquered beyond this Pre- 
 cindb, but they were kit to the Inhabi- 
 tants , they paying a Revenue to rJie 
 Commonwealth; all but thofc whicii 
 were thought fit to be fct out to main- 
 
 taiii 
 
[6x] 
 
 tain a Roman Colony, which was ^ good '^ 
 number oi Roman Citizens, £ent thither, ^ 
 and provided of Lands and Habitations, r§ 
 which being Armed did ferve in the na- 1 1 
 tare ot a Citadel and Garifon to keep the -^ 
 Province in Obedience, ^nd^ Roman Prae- 
 tor, Proconful, or other Governouf, was 
 fent yearl J to Head them, and brought 
 Forces with him befides. Now it was 
 ever lawful for any RGmanCitiz^nto pur- 
 chafe what Lands he pleafed in any of 
 thefe Provinces ; it not being dangerotis 
 to a City to have their People rich, but 
 to have fuch' a Power in the Governing 
 part of the Empire, asfliould make thole 
 who managed the Affairs of the Com- 
 monwealth depend upon them ; which 
 came afterwards to be that which ruined 
 their Liberty, and which the Gracchi en- 
 deavoured to prevent when it was too 
 Jate : For thofe lUuftrious pcrfons feeing. 
 the diforder that was then in the Com- 
 monwealth, and rightly comprehending 
 the Reafon, which was the Intermiiflon 
 of the Agrarian, and by confequence the 
 great Purchafcs which were made by the 
 Men of Rome (who had inrich'd thcm- 
 felves iri Jji^ and the other Provinces) 
 
 in 
 
[63] 
 in/ that part oi Italy which was between 
 the two Rivers , before mentioned, be- 
 gan to harrangue tlie People, in hopes to 
 perfwade them to admit of tlie right Re- 
 medy, which was to confirm tlie Agrari- 
 an h'SiW with a Retrofpeft; which al- 
 though they carried , yet the difficulties 
 in the Execution proved fo great, that it. 
 nevcr took effevil,by reafon that theCom- 
 mon People, whofc Interefl: it was to 
 have their Lands reftorcd ; yet having 
 long lived as Clients, and Dependants of 
 the great ones, chofc rather to depend 
 ftill upon their Patrons, than to hazard 
 all for an Imaginary deliverance , by 
 which fupinenefsin them, they were pre 
 vairdwith rather tojoyn (for the moll 
 part) with the Oppreflors of themfelvcs- 
 and their Country, and to cut the throats 
 of their Redeemers, than to employ theijr? 
 juft refentment ngainft the covetous Vio^ 
 lators of their. Government and Proper- 
 ty. So periflicd the two renownecf Ga?^ 
 chi^ one foon alter the other, not for any 
 Grime, but for having endeavoured to 
 prcferve and reftore their Common- 
 wealth ; for which (if they had lived in 
 times fuitAblc to fucli an Heroick wm^kr^ 
 
 takin 
 
[64] 
 taking, and that the vertue of their An- 
 ceflorshad been yet in any kind remain- 
 ing) they would have merited and en- 
 joyed a Reputation equal to that of Ly- 
 curgus, or SoloH^ whereas as it happcn'd, 
 they were Ibmetime after branded with 
 the name of Sedition, by certain Wits, 
 who proftituted the noble flame of Poe- 
 try Cwhich before had wont to be em- 
 ployed in magniiying Heroick Aftions) 
 to flatter the Lufl; and Ambition of the 
 Roman Tyrants. 
 
 Noble Fen» Sir, I approve what you 
 fay in all things, and in Confirmation of 
 it, fliall further alledge tlie two famous 
 Princes of Sparta, Agis, and Cleomines, 
 which I couple together, fince Plutarch 
 does fo ; Thefe finding the Corruption 
 of their Commonwealth, and the Decay 
 oi their ancient Vertue, to proceed from 
 the negledt and inobfervance of their 
 Founders Rules, and a breach of that E- 
 quaiity which was firft Inftituted ; en- 
 deavoured to reflore the Laws of Lycur- 
 gm,2XiA. divide the Territory anew ; their 
 Vidlory in the Peloponejian War, and the 
 Riches and Luxury brought into their 
 City by Lifander^ having long before 
 
 broken 
 
Broken all the Orders of their Commorit 
 wealth, and deflroyed the Proporrions 
 of Land allotted to each of the Natural 
 Spartans : F^ut the firfl: of tliefe two ex- 
 cellent Patriots perilhed by Treachery in 
 the beginning of his Enterprize, the o- 
 ther began and went on with incompa- 
 rable Prudence aiid Refolution, but mif- 
 carried afterwards by the Iniquity of the 
 times, and bafenefsand wickcdncftofthe 
 People; fo infallibly true it is, lliat 
 where the PoUcy is Corrupted , there 
 mull: necefiarily be alfo a Corruption and 
 depravation of Manners, and an utter 
 abolition of all Faith, Juflice, Honour, 
 and Morahty ; but! forget my feif, and 
 intrench upon your Province \ there is 
 nothing now remains to keep you from 
 the Modern Policies, but that you plcale 
 to ilitit up this Difcourfe of the Aricicnc 
 Governments, with foying fomerhing of 
 the Corruptions of Anftocracy, and Dcr 
 fnocracy; loir I believe both of us are fa 
 tisfied that you have abundantly 
 proved yoi^r AlJertion, and that v/heri 
 we have leiflire to examine all the St^iQ$ 
 or Policies that ever were, we j^all find 
 all their Changes tc/ have turn\l upon.- 
 ^' JF • this 
 
L661 
 
 this Hinge of Property, and that the fix- 
 ing of that with good Laws in the begin- 
 ning or firfllnlhtution of a State, and 
 the holding to thofe Laws afterwards, is 
 the only way to make a Commonwealth 
 Immortal. 
 
 E»g. Gent, I think you are very right ; 
 but I Ihall obey you, and do prefume to . 
 differ from Arijhtle, in thinking that he i 
 has not fitly called thofe Extreams (for fo 
 Iwillftilethem) di Ariftocracy and De- 
 mocracy, Corruptions ; for that they do 
 not proceed from the alteration of 
 Property, which is the Vnka corruptiopo- 
 Ittica : For example, I do not find that 
 Oligarchy, or Government of a few, 
 which is the Extream of an Optimacy, 
 ever did arife from a few Mens getting i 
 into their hands the Eftates of all the relt 
 of the Nobility: For had it began fo, if 
 might have lafled, which I never read of 
 any that did. I will therefore conclude, 
 tiiat they were all Tyrannies ; for fo the ' 
 Greeks called all Ufurpations, whether 
 of one or more perfons, and all thofe that 
 lever read of, as they came in either by 
 Craft or Violence, as the Thirty Tyrants 
 di Athens y the Fifteen oiTheks, and the 
 
 Decern* 
 I 
 
I67l 
 
 Decern vtr't oiRome (though thefe at fir it 
 c^me in lawfully) fo they were foon dri- 
 ven out; and ever, were either aflaflh 
 nated, or dyed by the Sword of Juftice ; 
 and therefore I fliall fay no more of them,^ 
 not thinking them worth the name of 
 a Government. As for the Extrcam of 
 Democracy, which is Anarchy , it is not 
 fo ; for many Commonwealths have laft- 
 ed'for a good time under that Admini^ 
 ftration (if I mayfo call a State fo full 
 of Confufion.) hn Anarchy then is,whea. 
 the People not contented with their 
 Share in the Adminiftration of the Go- 
 vernment, (which is the right of Appro- 
 ving, or Difapproving of Laws, of 
 Leagues, and of makmg of War and 
 Peace, of Judging in all Caufes upon an 
 Appeal to them, and chufing all manner, 
 of Officers) will take upon themfelv^^ 
 the Office of the Senate too, in manage- 
 ing Subordinate Matters of State, Pro- 
 pofing Laws Originally, and aiiummg 
 Debate in the Marketplace, makmg 
 their Orators their Leaders; nay, not con-- 
 tent with thi^, will take upon them to 
 alter all the Orders of the Government 
 when they pleafe; ^? wa^ frequently 
 
 F z praitifed 
 
[68] 
 
 praftifed in Athens y and in the Modern 
 vState of Florence. In both thefc Cities, 
 when ever any great perfon who could 
 lead the People, had a mind to alter the 
 Govc-rnment, he caird them together, 
 and made them Vote a Change, in Flo- 
 rence they call'd it, Chiamar il popolo a 
 Parlamento e rupigliar lo Stato, which is 
 fummoning the People into the Market- 
 place to refume the Government , and 
 did then prefently Inftitute a new one, 
 with new Orders, newMagiflracies,and 
 the like. Now that which Originally 
 caufes this Diforder, is the admitting (in 
 the beginning of a Government , or 
 afterwards,) the meaner fort of People, 
 who have no Share in the Territory, in- 
 to an equal part of Ordering the Com- 
 monwealth ; thefe being lels fober, lefs 
 confidering, and lefs careful of the Pub- 
 lick Concerns ; and being commonly the 
 Major part, are made the Inftruments 
 oft times of the Ambition of the great 
 ones, and very apt to kindle into Jafti- 
 on : but notwithftandingall theConfu- 
 fion which we fee under an Anarchy, 
 (where the wifdom of the better fort is 
 made ufelcfs by the fury of the People) 
 
 yet 
 
1691 
 
 yet many Cities havefubfifted hundreds 
 of years in this condition; and have been 
 more confiderable, and performed great- 
 er A£l:ions,than ever any Government of 
 equal Extent did, except it were a well 
 regulated Democracy ; But it is true, they 
 rume in the end, and that never by Cow- 
 ardize or bafenefs, but by too much 
 boldnefs and temerarious undertakings, 
 as both Athens and Florence did ; The 
 firft undertaking the Invafion of Skily, 
 when their Affairs went ill elfewhere ; 
 and the other by provoking the Spani- 
 ^/r^andtlie Pope, But I have done now, 
 and ihall pafs to fay fomething of the 
 Modern i^olicy. 
 
 Noble Ven. Before you come to that, 
 Sir, pray fatisfie me in a Point which I 
 fhould have moved before , but that I 
 was unwilling to Interrupt your ration- 
 al Bifcourfe; How came you to take it 
 for granted, that A/^/fj, Thefeus, '^wA Ro- 
 mulus were Founders of Popular Govern- 
 ments ? as for Mofes, we have his St( ry 
 written by an Infallible Pen ; Thefeus 
 was ever called Km^oi Atl.ens, though 
 he liv'd fo long fince, that what is writ- 
 ten of him is juflly elleem'd fabulous; 
 
 F 3 but 
 
[7^3 
 but "komulus certainly was a King, anc^ 
 that Government continued a Monar- 
 chy , though Eleftive, under feveii 
 Princes. 
 
 Bng Gent, I will be very fliort in my 
 Anfwer, and fay nothing of 77^(f/e'//j', for 
 the reafon you are plealed to alledge , 
 But for Mnjes, you may read in Holy 
 Writ, that when, by God's Command, 
 he had brought the i/r^^///d'j out of E- 
 ^jK/>^ , he did at firil: manage them by 
 ac(j[uainting the People with the Eflate 
 of their Government, which People were 
 called together with the found of a 
 Trumpet; and are tcarmed in Scripture, 
 the Congregation of the Lord ; this Go- 
 vernment he thought might ferve their 
 turn in their pafTage, and that it would 
 be time enough to make them a better 
 when tliey were in pofleffion of the Land 
 oi Canaan; Efpecially having made them 
 Judges and Niagillrates at the inflance 
 of his Father- in law, which are called in 
 Authors. ?rcefetliJethromam\ tut find- 
 ing tiiatthisProvifion wasnotfufRcient, 
 compIain*d to God of the difficulty he 
 had, to make that State of Affairs hold 
 together; God was pleafed to Order' 
 
 him. 
 
[7i] 
 
 him to let feventy Elders be appointed 
 for a Senate, but yet the Congregation 
 of the Lord continued flill, and aded: 
 And by the feveral foundings of the 
 Trumpets, cither the Senate or Popular 
 Afiembly were called together, or both; 
 fo tliat this Government was the fame 
 with all othcv Democracies, confillingof 
 a Principal Magiflrate , a Senate and a 
 People Ailembled together, not by Re- 
 prefention, but in a Body. Now for 
 Honwlus, it is very plain, that he was no 
 more than the firft Oilicer of the Com- 
 monwealth, whatever he was called, and 
 that hewaschofen (as your Doge \s) for 
 Life ; and when the laft of thofe feven 
 Kings ufurpt the place, that is, did 
 reign injuffu populi, and exercife the Go- 
 vernment Tyrannically , the People 
 drove him out ( as all People in the 
 World that have Property w^ill do in the 
 hke Cafe , except fome extraordinary 
 qualifications in the Prince prefervehim 
 for one Age) and afterwards appoint- 
 ed in his room two Magiil rates , 
 and made them Annual, which two had 
 the fame Command, as well in their Ar- 
 mies as in their Cities, and did not make 
 
 F 4 the 
 
ihe leaft alteration befides, excepting} 
 that they chofe an Officer that was to 
 perform the Kings Function in certain 
 Sacrifices (which N^wj appointed to be 
 performed by the King) leil the People 
 iliould think their Religion were chang- 
 ed : This Officer was called Rex Sacnji- 
 cuius. If you are fatisfied, I will go on 
 to the confiderarion of our Modern 
 States, 
 
 Ncile VeyK I am fully aiifwercd, and 
 befidcs am clearly of Opinion, that no 
 Government, whether mixt Monarcthy 
 or Commonwealth, can fubfift without 
 a Senate, as well from the turbulent 
 State ot the IJraclites under Mofes till 
 the SanheJrin was Inftituted, as from a 
 certain Kingdom of the Vandals in Afri- 
 ca ; where after their Conquell: of the 
 Natives, they appointed a Government 
 confilling of a Prmce and a Popular Af- 
 fembly, which latter, within half a year, 
 beat the Kings brains out, he having no 
 bulwark of Nobility or Senate to detend 
 him from them* But I will divert you 
 no longer, 
 
 Efiy 
 
17} :\ 
 
 Mng. Gent, Sir, you are very right, 
 and we ihould liave fpoken fome thing 
 of that before, it it had been the bufinels 
 of this Meeting to Difcourfeof the par- 
 ticular Models oi: Government ; but in- 
 tending only to fay fo much of the An- 
 cient l^olicy as to ihcw w hat Govern- 
 ment in General is, and upon what Ba- 
 fis it flands , I think I have dore 
 it fufficiently to make way for the un- 
 derftanding of our own, at Icall: when 
 I have laid fomcthing of the Policies 
 which are now extant ; and that with 
 your favour I will do. I iliall need fay 
 little now^ of thofc Commonwealths, 
 which however they came by their Li- 
 berty, either by Arms or Purchafe, arc 
 now much what under the fame kind of 
 Policy as the Ancients were. In Germa- 
 ny-, the Free Towns, and many Princes 
 make up the Body of a Commonwealth 
 called the Empire, of which the Empe- 
 rourisHead; this General Union hath 
 its Diets or Parliaments, where they arc 
 all reprefented, and where all things 
 concerning the Safety and Intereft of 
 Germany in General, or that belong to 
 Peace and War, are Tranfaded ; tliefe / 
 
 Diets 
 
[ 74 ] 
 Diets never intermeddle with the parti- 
 cular Concerns or Policies of thofe Prin- 
 ces or States that make it up , leaving 
 to them their particular Soveraignties: 
 The feveral Imperial Cities , or Com- 
 monwealths , are divided into two 
 kindes, Luhecks Law, and Co/lens Law, 
 which being the fame exadly with the 
 ancient Democrcuies and Opt macks , I 
 will fay no more of them. The Govern- 
 ment of Svoizerland, and the Seven Pro- 
 vinces of the Low-Countries were made 
 up in hade, to Unite them again ft Per- 
 fecution and Oppreflion, and to help to 
 defend themfelves the better, which 
 they both have done very gallantly and 
 fuccefsfully : They feem to have taken 
 their Pattern from the Grecians , who 
 when their Great nefs began to decline, 
 and the feveral Tyrants who fucceeded 
 Akxayider began to prefs hard upon 
 them, were forced to League themfelves 
 (yet in feveral Confederacies, as that of 
 the Etolians, that of the Achaians, &c.) 
 for their mutual defence. The Sw/ffes 
 confiil of Thirteen Soveraignties ; fome 
 Cities which are moft Ariftocratical, and 
 ibme Provinces which have but a Village 
 
 for 
 
C7J] 
 for their head Townlhip. Thefe are all 
 pemocr^cies, and are Govern'd all by the 
 Owners oi Land, who Aflemble as our 
 Free-Holders do at the County-Court. 
 Thefe have their General Diets,asinGd'/-- 
 wa^y. The Government ot the United 
 Provinces has for its Foundation the U- 
 mon of Tytrecht, made in thebegmning 
 of their ftandmg upon their Guard a- 
 gamit the Cruelty and Opprellion ot the 
 Spjniard, and patcht up in hafte; and 
 feeming to be compos'd only tor neceih- 
 ty, as a State ot War, has made Modern 
 Statelmen Conjeflure that it will not 
 be very prafticable in time oi Peace, and 
 Security: At their General Diet, which 
 is called the ^States General, do inter- 
 vene the Deputies of the Seven Piovin- 
 ces, in what number their Principals 
 pleafc; but all of them have but one 
 Vote, which are by confequence Seven, 
 and every one of the Seven hath a Ne- 
 gative ; lb that nothing can pafs without 
 the Concurrence of the whole Seven. 
 Every one of thefe Provinces have a 
 Councilor Aflcmbly of their ov/n, call- 
 ed the States Provincial, who fend and 
 Inflruil their Deputies to the State-s- 
 
 General, 
 
176 1 
 
 General, and perform other Offices be- 
 longing to] the Peace and Quiet of the 
 Province. Thefe Deputies to the States 
 Provincial, are fent by feveral Cities of 
 which every Province confifts, and by 
 the Nobility of the Province, which hath 
 one Voice only : The Bafis of the Go- 
 vernment lies in thefe Cities, which are 
 every of them a dillinft Soveraignty ; 
 neither can the States of the Province, 
 much lefs the States General, intrench in 
 the leafl: upon their Rights, nor fo much 
 ^s intermeddle with the Government 
 of their Cities, or Adminiftration oi7u- 
 ftice, bur only treat of what concerns 
 their mutual Defence, and their Pay- 
 ments towards it. Every one of thefe 
 Cities is a Soveraignty, Governed by an 
 Opt'imacyy confining of the chief Citizens, 
 which upon death are fupplyed by new 
 ones Eleded by themfelves ; thefe 
 are called the 7Jrrjfcaperte or Heme, i 
 which Council has continued to Govern 
 thofe Towns, time out of mind ; even 
 in the times of their Princes, who were 
 then the Soveraigns ; for without the 
 confent of him, or his Deputy, called 
 State Holder, nothing could be conclu- 
 ded 
 
[77l 
 dcd in thofc days. Since they havelnlli- 
 tutedan artificial Minifter of their own, 
 whom they flill call State-Holder, and 
 make choice of him in their Provincial 
 Aflemblies , and tor Form fake deter 
 fomething to him as the Approbation of 
 their Skepen and other Magiftrates, and 
 fome other Matters : This has been con- 
 tinued in the Province,of Hollatid, which 
 is the chief Province in the Succe/lion of 
 the Princes of Orange , and in moll: of 
 the others too: The reft have likewife 
 ehofen fome other of the Houfe oi Na^cuv, 
 This Government (fo odly fct together, 
 and focompos'd of aState, intended tor 
 a Monarchy, and which, as Ahiianacks 
 Calculated for one Meridian are made in 
 fome fort to ferve fcr another, is by 
 tkem continued in thefc feveral Arijlc- 
 cracks) may lall: tor a time, till Peace 
 and Security , together witli the alufe 
 which is like to happen in the choice of 
 the Heme, when they ihall Eledperfons 
 of fmall note into their Body, upon Va- 
 cancies, for Kindred or Pvclation, rather 
 than fuch as are of Eftate andeminen- 
 ey, i^r that otherwife abufe their power 
 in the execution of it, and then it is be^ 
 
 lieved. 
 
[ 78 ] 
 lieved , and reafonably enough , thdt 
 thofe People (great iri Wealth, and very 
 acute in the Knowledge of their owii 
 Intereft) will find out a better Form of 
 Government, or makethemfelves a prey 
 to fome great Neighbour-Prince in the 
 attempting it ; and this in ca,fe they iii 
 the mean time efcape Conqueil from this 
 great and powerful King ot France, Wno 
 at this time gives Law to Chrutendonl. 
 I have nothing now left to keep me ironi 
 the Modern Monarchies, but the moil fa- 
 mous Commonwealth of /^^«/cf, of which 
 it would be prefumptiori for me to fay 
 anything whiledyouare prefent. 
 
 l^ohle Ven, You may very fafely go 
 on if youpleafe ; for I believe itrangerei 
 undcrftand the Speculative part of our 
 Government , better than we do ; and 
 theDoftrineof the Ballot which is our 
 chief excellency ; For I have had many 
 Defcriptions of our Frame, which have 
 taught me fomething in it which I knew 
 not before; particularly, Dt?;/^i^^ Gianotti 
 the Florentine , to whom I refer thofe 
 who are curious to know moft of our 
 Orders, for we that manage the Mecha- 
 nical part of the Government are like 
 
 HorfeS' 
 
[79 ]. 
 Horfes who know their Track well e- 
 nough, without confidering E^ifl or We(i, 
 or what bufinefs they go about. L'efides, 
 it would be very tedious , and very 
 needlefs, to make any Relation of our 
 Model, with the feveral Councils that 
 make it up, and would be that which 
 you have not done in Treating ot any 
 other Government : what we have faid 
 is enough to llievv what beginning we 
 had, and that ferves your turn, tor \vc 
 who are called Nobility, and who man- 
 age the State, are the Defcendcnts of the 
 firft Inhabitants, and had therefore been 
 a Democracy , if a numerous Flock of 
 Strangers (who were contented to come 
 and live amongfl: us as Subjefts) had not 
 fwelled our City, and made tlic Govern- 
 ing party fcem but a handful; fo that 
 we have the fame Foundations that all 
 other Arijiocracies have, who Govern but 
 one Gity , and have no Territory but 
 what they Govern Frovincially; and our 
 People not knowing where to have bet- 
 ter Juilice, are very well contented to 
 live amongfl: us, without any fliare in 
 the Managing of AfKiirs; yet wc have 
 power to Adopt whom we plcafe into 
 
 our 
 
t go ] 
 our Nobility, and I believe that in the 
 time of the Roman greatnefs , there 
 were five for one of the Inhabitants 
 who were written in no Tribe , but 
 look'd upon as Strangers, and yet that 
 did not vitiate their Demecracy^ no more 
 than our CitizencS and eonimon People 
 can hurt our Optimacy ; all the difficulty 
 in our Adiiiiniftration, hath been to 
 regulate our own Nobility, and to bri* 
 die their faftion and ambition, which 
 can alone breed a Difeafe in the Vital 
 part of our Government, and this we do 
 by moft fevere Laws, and ^ very vigo- 
 rous execution of them. 
 
 DoB:. Sir, I was thinking to Interpol 
 concerning the Propriety of Lands id 
 the Territory of /^j<r/«j', which I hear is 
 wholly in the polleflion of the Nobility 
 ot Venice, 
 
 Noble Ven. Our Members have very^ 
 good Eftates there, yet nothing but what 
 they have paid very well for, no part of 
 that Country, or of any other Province, 
 having been Ihar'd amongfl: us as in other 
 Conquefts : 'Tis true that the Faduans 
 having ever been the moft revengful 
 People of Italy ^ could not be deterr'd 
 
 from 
 
[8i] 
 
 from thofe execrable and treacherous 
 Murders which were every day commit- 
 ed, but by a fevere Execution of the 
 Laws as well againll their Lives as E- 
 ftates : And as many of their Eftates a5 
 were Confifcated, were (^during our ne- 
 ce/Tities in the lait War with the Turks) 
 expofed to fale, and fold to them that 
 offered moft, without any confideration 
 of the perfons purchafing ; But it is very 
 true that moll of them came into the 
 hands of our Nobility, they oflering 
 morc than any other , by reafon that 
 their fober and frugal living, and their 
 being forbidden all manner oi TraiTique, 
 makes them liave no way of Im ploying 
 their Money which proceeds from tlicir 
 Parfimony:, and lb they can afford to 
 give more than others who may Imploy 
 their Advance to better profit chewhcre. 
 But I perceive, D<7^?<:^/', by thisQucilion, 
 that you have ftudied at ?arlu,i, 
 
 DeB. No really. Sir, the fmall learn- ;• 
 inglhave was acquired in ourownUrfgi 
 niverfity of Oxford^ nor was I ever out' 
 of this Ifland. 
 
 AWVf. Ven, I would you hj;d, Sir, for 
 it would have been a great lioncur to 
 
 G owe 
 
[ 8i J 
 
 our Country to have contributed any 
 thing towards fo vaft a knowledge as 
 you are pofTeflbr of: But I wilhniore 
 that it were your Country, or at leaft 
 the place of your Habitation, that fo we 
 might partake not only of your excel- 
 lent Difcourfe fometimes, but be the 
 better for your skill, which would make 
 us Immortal. 
 
 Doti. I am glad to fee you fo well 
 that 'you can make your felf merry> but 
 lafTureyouI am very well here; Eng-* 
 land is a good wholfome Climate for a 
 Phyfician : But, pray let our Friend go 
 onto his Modern Monarchies. 
 
 Eng. Gent. That is all I have now to ; 
 do: Thofe Monarchies are two, Abfo-» ' 
 lute, and Mixt ; for the firft kind, all 
 that we have knowledge of, except the , 
 Empire of the Turksy ditfer fo little from { 
 the ancient Monarchies of the Afjyrians 
 znd Perjrjnsy that having given a Ihort 
 Defcription of them before, it will be i 
 necdlefs to fay any more of the Terfian^ 
 the Mogully the King of ?eguy Chinas 
 Frejior-Johrty or any other the great Men 
 under thofe Princes, as th^ Satrapes oi 
 old ; being made fo only by their being 
 
 employ- 
 
[83] 
 
 employed and put into great places and 
 Governments by the Soveraign ; but the 
 Monarchy of tlie Grand Seignior is fom- 
 thing different ; they both agree in this, 
 that the Prince is in both ablblutc Pro- 
 prietor of all the Lands, ( excepting in 
 the Kingdom of iE:^V/^^ of which I ihall 
 fay fomething ano'n) but the diverfity 
 lies in the Adminiflration of the Proper- 
 ty ; the other Emperours as well Ancient 
 as Modern ufmg to manage the Reve- 
 nue of the feveral Towns, andParilhes,^ 
 as our Kings, or the Kings of /r jw^ do ; 
 that is, keep it in their hands, and Ad- 
 minifter it by Officers : And fo you may 
 read that A'^erxes King of Perfia allowed 
 the Revenue of fo many Villages to T/jct 
 miflocles, which Aliignations are pradi- 
 fed at this day, both to publick and pri- 
 vate ufes, by the prcfent Monarchs. But 
 th^Turks^ when they invaded the bro- 
 ken Empire of the Arabians^ did not at 
 firft make any great akeratioa in their 
 Policy, till th^Houfe of Ottoman the pre-, 
 fent Royal Family did make great Cou- 
 quefls in Afia, and afterwards in Greece, 
 whence they might polfibly bring their 
 prefent way of dividing their conquered 
 
[84] 
 
 Territories; for they took the fame courfe % 
 which the Gotbs and other Modern Peo- 
 ple had ufed with their Conquered Lands 
 in Europe , upon uliich they planted Mi- 
 litary Colonics , by dividing them a- 
 mongfl; the Souldiers for their pay or 
 maintenance. Thefe Ihares were called 
 by them Timarr^s, which fignifies Bene- 
 fices, but differed in this only from the 
 European Knights Fees, that thefe lad O- 
 riginally were Hereditary, and fo Pro- 
 perty was maintained, whereas amongft 
 the Ottomans, they were meerly at will ^ 
 and they enjoyed their lliares whilelt 
 they remained the 6"^//^ j^'s Souldiers, and 
 no longer; being turn'd out both of his 
 Service, and of their Timarrs, when he 
 pleafcs. This doubtlefs had been the beft 
 and firmeft Monarchy in the World, if 
 they could have flayed here, and not had 
 a Mercinary Army befides, which have 
 often (like the Praetorians in the time of 
 the Roman Tyrants) made the Palace and 
 the Serraglio the Shambles of their Prin- 
 ces; whereas if the TtmariotSy afwell 
 Spahis or Horfe, as Foot, had been 
 !)rought together to Guard the Prince 
 by Courfes (as they ufed to do King Da- 
 
vid) as well as they are to Fight for the 
 Empire ; this horrid flaw and inconve- 
 nience in their Government had been 
 wholly avoided. For though thefe arc 
 not planted upon entire Property asD^i- 
 vid's were, (thofe being in the nature 
 of Trained-bands) yet their remotenefs 
 off their Habitations from the Court, 
 and the Faftions of the great City, and 
 their defire to repair home, and to find 
 all things quiet at their return, would 
 have ealily kept them from being in- 
 feded with that curfed difeafe of Rebel- 
 lion againft their Soveraign, upon whofe 
 favour they depend for the continuance 
 of their livelihood: Whereas the Janiza- 
 ries are for life, and are furetobe in the 
 fame Imployment under the next Sue- 
 ceflbr; lofure, that no Grand Seignior 
 can, or dares go about to Disband them, 
 the fufpicion of intending fuch a thing 
 having caufed the death of more than 
 one ot their Emperours. But 1 ftall go 
 to the limited Monarchies. 
 
 Do^. But pray, before youdofo, In- 
 form us fomething of the Roman Em- 
 perours ; Had they; the whole Domi- 
 nion or Property of the Lands of Italy ? 
 
 G 3 Enz- 
 
186] 
 
 Bng. Gent, The Roman Emperdurs I 
 
 reckon amongft the Tyrants, for fo a- 
 
 mongilthe Greeks were called thofeCi- 
 
 .tizens who ufutpt the Governments of 
 
 their Commonwealths, and maintain'd 
 
 it by force, without endeavouring to 
 
 Found or Eftablifli it, by altering the 
 
 Property of Lands, as not imagining that 
 
 their Chil-dren could ever hold it after* 
 
 them, in which they were not deceived : 
 
 So that it is plain that the Roman Empire 
 
 was not a natural but a violerit Govern- 
 
 m.ent. The reafons why it kfled longei" 
 
 than ordinarily Tyrannies do, are many; 
 
 Firft, becaufe Augujlus the firftEmperour 
 
 kept up the Senate, and io for his time 
 
 cajold'thern with this I ait of Imaginary 
 
 Power, which might not have lufficed 
 
 neither to have kept him from the fatfe 
 
 of his Uncle, but that there had been fo 
 
 many Revolutions and Bloody Wars be* 
 
 tween, that all Mankind was glad to re-. 
 
 pofe and take breath for a while under 
 
 zny Government that could proteft, 
 
 them. And he gain'd the fervice of 
 
 thefe Senators the rather, becaufe he 
 
 fuffered none to be fo but thofe w^ho 
 
 fiad followed his Fortune in the feveral 
 
 Civil 
 
[873 
 Civil Wjirs, and fo were engaged to fup- 
 port him for their own pre:ervation ; 
 liefides, he confifcated all thofe who 
 had at any time been profcribed, or h- 
 ded in any Eacounter againfi: him; 
 which, confidering in how icw hands 
 the Lands of Irc^fy then were, might be 
 an over-ballance of the Property in his 
 hands. But this is certain, tiiat what 
 ever he had not inhisownpofTeHion, he 
 difpofed of at his pleafure, taking it a- 
 way, as a!fo the livcsof his People, with- 
 out any judicial proceedings, when he 
 pleafed : That the Confifcations were 
 great, we may fee by his planting above 
 lixty thoufand Souldiers upon Lands in 
 Lomhardy^ That is, erecting fo many 
 Benejicu, or Timarrs, and, if any Man's 
 Lands lay in the way, he took them in 
 for Neighbourhood, w^ithoutany delin- 
 quency. Mantua viC niiferce nhri/uni vic'ina 
 Crenwyjit, And it is very evident that if 
 thcfe Bencficia had not afterwards been 
 made Hereditary, that Empire might 
 have had a llabler Foundation , and fo 
 a more quiet and orderly progrefs than 
 it after had ; for the Court Guards,call'd 
 the Pra:torians, did make fuch havock of 
 
 G 4 their 
 
[88] 
 
 their Princes, and change them Co often, 
 diat this (though it may feem a Paradox) 
 is another reafon why this Tyranny was 
 not ruin d fooner ; for the People, who 
 had really an Intereft to endeavour a 
 change of Government, werefo prevent- 
 ed by feeing the Prince, w^hom they de- 
 signed to lupplant, removed to their 
 hand, that they were puzled what to do, 
 taking in the mean time great recreati- 
 on to lee thofe wild Ccalls hunted down 
 themfeJves, wholiad lb often prey 'd up- 
 on their Lives and Ellates; belides that, 
 rnofl commonly the frequent removes 
 of their Mafters, made them fcarce have 
 time to do any mifchief to their poor op- 
 prelled Subjeds in particular , though 
 they were all Slaves in General. This 
 Government of the later Roma}7s is a 
 clear Example of the truth and efficacy 
 ol thefe Poiiriek Principles we have been 
 difcourfing of. Firft, that any Govern- 
 ment (be It the moft unlimitted and ar- 
 bitrary Monarchy) that is placed upon a 
 right Bans of Property, is better both for 
 Prince and People, than to leave them a 
 fceming Property, Hill at his devotion, 
 and then for want of fixing the Founda- 
 tion, 
 
tion, expofe their Lives to thofe dangers 
 and hazzards with which fo many Tu- 
 mults and Inlurreftions , which muft 
 necelTanly happen, will threaten them 
 .daily : And .n the next place, that any 
 violent conttraining or mankind to a fub- 
 jedhon, is not to be called a Govern- 
 ment, nor does falve either the Politick 
 or Moral ends, which thofe eminent Le- 
 giflato^'S amongfl: the Ancients propofed 
 to thcml'elves, when they let Rules to 
 releive the quiet and peace, as well as 
 the plenty profperity and greatnefs of 
 the People ; but that the Politicks or Art 
 of Governing is a Science to be learned 
 and lludicd byGounfellors nndStatefmen, 
 be they never fo great ; or elfe Mankind 
 will have a very fad condition under 
 them, and they themfelves a very per- 
 plexed and turbulent life , and proba- 
 bly a very deftruftive and precipitous 
 end of it. 
 
 Do^. I am very glad I gaveoccafion 
 to make this Difcourfe; now I befeech 
 you, before you go to the raixt Monar- 
 chies, not to forget Egyj>t. 
 
 
[9o] 
 
 Eng, Gent. 'Twas that I was coming 
 to, before you were pleafed to interro- 
 gate me concerning the Roman Empire, 
 The Egyptians are this day, for ought I 
 know, the only People that enjoy Pro- 
 perty, and are Governed as a Province 
 by any of the Eallern abfolute Princes. 
 For whereas Damafco, Aleppo, and moft 
 of the other Cities and Provinces of that 
 Empire, whofe Territory is divided into 
 Tmarrs, arc Governed by a Bafliaw, 
 who for his Guards has fome fmall num- 
 ber of Janizaries or Souldiers ; the Ba- 
 ihaw of Egypt, or of Grand Cairo, has 
 ever an Army with him ; and divers 
 Forts are erefted, which is the way Eu^ 
 ropean Princes ufe in Governing their 
 Provinces, and mull be fo where Pro- 
 perty is left entire, except they plant 
 Colonies as the Romans did. The reafon 
 why Sel'im, who broke the Empire of 
 the MamalukeSy and conquered Egypt, 
 did not plant Timarrs upon it, was the 
 Lazinefs and Cowardlinels of the People, 
 and the great Fruitfulnefs of the Soil, and 
 Delicioufnefs of the Country, which has 
 molUfi'd and rendred effeminate all the 
 Nations that ever did Inhabit it. So that 
 
 a re- 
 
[9i] 
 4 refollition was taken to impofe upon 
 them, firftthe maintaining an Army by 
 a Tax, and then to pay a lull haliof all 
 the Fruits and product of tlicir Lands 
 (to the Grand Seignior) which they arc 
 to Cultivate and Improve: This is well 
 managed by the L^alhaws and their Ot- 
 ikers, and comes to an incredible fum; 
 the goods being fold, the Money is con- 
 veyed in fpccie to the Port, and is the 
 greateft part of that Prince's Revenue. 
 And it is believed, that if all th^ Lands 
 had been entirely confifcated, and that 
 tie Grand Seignior had mannged them 
 by Jiis Oirlccrs, he would not have made 
 a third part lb much of thcwiiole, as he 
 receives now annually for one half; not 
 only lecaufe thofe People are extream- 
 lymduflrious where their own profit is 
 concerned; but for that, it is clear, if 
 they had been totally divefted of their 
 Ellares, they would have left their 
 Country, and made that which is now 
 the moft populous Kingdom of the 
 World, a Dcfart, as is all the reft of the 
 Turkijh Dominions, except fome Cities. . 
 And if the People had removed as they 
 did elfewhere, there would not only 
 
 have 
 
have wanted hands to have Cultivated 
 and Improv'd the Lands, but mouths to 
 confume the product of it ; fo that the 
 Princes Revenue by the cheapnefe of Vi- 
 sual, and the want of Labourers, would 
 have almoft fallen to nothing. 
 
 l^ohle Fen, Pray God this be not the 
 reafon that this King of France leaves 
 Property to his Subjeds; for certainly 
 he hath taken example by this Province 
 oi Egypt, his Subjeds having a Tax 
 (which for the continuance of it, I muft 
 call a Rene or Tribute) Imposed upon 
 them to the value of one lull half of 
 their Eftatcs, which muft ever increale 
 as the Lands improve, 
 
 Eng. Gent. I believe. Sir, there is an- 
 other reafon ; For the Property there,be- 
 ing in the Nobility and Gentry, which 
 are the hands by which he manages his 
 Force both at home and abroad, it would 
 not have been eafie or fafe for him to 
 take away their Eilates. But I come to 
 the limitted Monarchies. They were 
 firft Introduced (as was faid before) by 
 the Goths, and other Northern Peo |« 
 Whence thofe great fwarms came, ^ • ' 
 was unknown toProcopm himfelf, ^V 
 
£93 J 
 
 flv'd in the time of their Invafion, and 
 who was a dihgent fearcher into all 
 the circumftances of their concernments; 
 foit is very need lefs for us to make any 
 enquiry into it, thus much being clear. 
 That they came Man,Woman, and Child, 
 and conquer'd and pofleil all thefe 
 parts of the World, which were then 
 lubjeft to the Roman Empire, and fmce 
 Chriftianity came in have been fo to 
 the LatineChurch,till honed John Calvin 
 taught fome of us the way how todeliver 
 our felves from the Tyrannical Yoak, 
 which neither we nor our Forefathers 
 were able to bear. Whence thofe Peo- 
 ple had the Government they Eflablilht 
 in thefe parts after their Conqueft, 
 that is, whether they brought it from 
 their own Country, or made it them- 
 felves, muft needs be uncertain , fincc 
 their Original is wholly fo ; but itfeems 
 very probable that they liad fome ex- 
 cellent perfons among them, though 
 the ignorance and want of learning in 
 riiat Age hath not fufifered any tiling to 
 remain that may give us any great light ;, 
 for it is plain, that the Government they 
 . fettled, was both according to the exad 
 
 Rules 
 
C 94 3 
 Rules of the Politicks , and very natu- 
 ral and fuitable to that Divifion they 
 made of their federal Territories. When- 
 ever then thefe Invaders had quieted a- 
 ny Province, and that the People were 
 driven out or fuodued , they divided 
 the Lands,^ and to the Prince they gave 
 ufually a tenth part, or thereabouts; 
 to the great Men, or Cwmtes Regis (as ic 
 was tranflated into LatineJ every one 
 (as near as they could) an equal ihare, 
 Thefe were to enjoy an Hereditary 
 right in their Eftates, as the King did in 
 his part and in the Crown ; but nei- 
 ther he, nor his Peers or Companions, 
 were to have the abfolute diipofal of 
 the Lands fo allotted them, but were to 
 keep a certain proportion to themfelves 
 for their ufe : and the reft was ordered 
 to be divided amongft the Free-men,who 
 came with them to Conquer. What 
 they kept to themfelves was called De- 
 ■trtefftesL in Eri^ifh and French, and in /-* 
 talian, Beni Allodlatu The other part 
 which they granted to the Free-men, 
 was called a FeHd\ and all thefe Eftates 
 were held of thefe Lords Hereditarily, 
 t)nly the Tenants were to pay a fmall 
 
 Rent 
 
t 95 X 
 Rent annually, and at every Death or 
 Change an acknowledgment in Money, 
 and in fome Tenures the beft Beaft be- 
 fides : But the chief condition of the 
 Feud or Grant, was, that the Tenrmt 
 Ihould perform certain Services to the 
 Lord, of which one (in all Tenures of 
 Free- men) was to follow him Armed to 
 the Wars for the Service of the Prince 
 and Defence of the Lands. And upon 
 their admittance to their Feuds, thty take 
 an Oath to be true ValTals and Tenants 
 to their Lords, and to pay their Ilcnts, 
 and perform their Services , and upon 
 failure to forfeit their Eftates; and theic 
 Tenants were divided accordingto their 
 Habitations into feveral Mannors, in 
 every one of which there was a Court 
 kept twice every year, where they 
 all were to appear, and to be admitted 
 to their feveral Eftates, and to take the 
 Oath above mentioned. All thcfe Peers 
 did likewife hold all their Demefnes, 
 as alfo all their Mannors, of the Prince ; 
 to whom they fwore Allegiance and 
 Fealty.- There were befides thefe Free- 
 men or Francklins, other Tenants to c- 
 very Lord, who were called Villains, 
 
 who 
 
[9^3 
 who were to perform all fervile Offices/ 
 and their Eftates were all at the Lords 
 ^ difpofal when he pieafed ; thefe confift- 
 cd mollly of fuch of the former Inha- 
 bitants of thefe Countries, as were not 
 either deflroyed or driven out, andpof- 
 fibly of others who were fcrvants a- 
 mongft them , before they came from 
 their own Countries. Perhaps thus 
 much might have been unneceflary to 
 be faid, confidering that thefe Lords, 
 Tenants, and Courts, are yet extant in 
 all the Kingdoms in Europe, but that to ai 
 Gentleman of Venice, where there are 
 none of thefe things, and where the 
 Goths never were, fomething may be 
 faid in excufeforme. 
 
 Nolle Ven. 'Tis true. Sir, we fled 
 from the Goths betimes, but yet in thofe 
 Countries which we recovered fince in. 
 Terra firma, we found the footP.eps of 
 thefe Lords, and Tenures, and their Ti- 
 tles of Counts ; though being now Pro* 
 vinces to us, they have no influence 
 upon the Government, and fuppofe you 
 are about to prove they have in thefe 
 parts. 
 
^971 
 En(i^.Gent, You are right, Sir; for the 
 Governments of /^r^^cif, Soain, En%lanc!, 
 jmd all other Countries where thefe Peo- 
 ple fetlcd were framed accordingly. It 
 is not my bufmefs to defcribe particular- 
 ly the dillinft Forms of the feveral Go- 
 vernments in Europe^ which do derive 
 from thefe People (for they may differ 
 in fome of their Orders and Laws,though 
 the Foundation be in them all the fame) 
 this would be linneceflary, they being 
 all extant, and fo well known ; and be- 
 fides little to my purpofe, excepting to 
 Ihew where they have declined irom 
 their firft Inftitution and adraitted of 
 fome change. France, and Poland, have 
 not, nor as I can learn, ever had any 
 Free-men below the NobiUty ; that is, 
 had no Yeomen ; but all are either No- 
 ble, or Villains, therefore the Lands 
 mufl: have been Originally given as 
 they now remain, into the hands of 
 thefe Nobles. But I will come to the 
 Adminiftration of the Government in 
 fhefe CountriG^, and firft fay wherein 
 they all agree, or did at leaft iri their 
 Inftitution , which is, That the Sove- 
 raigri power ix in the States aflemblcd 
 
 H t:oge- 
 
[98] 
 together by the Prince, fn which he pre- 
 fides^ thefe make Laws, Levy Money, 
 Redrefs Grievances, punifh great Oifi- 
 cers, and the Uke. Thefe States confift 
 in fome places oF the Prince and Nobi- 
 lity only, as in Poland, and anciently 
 in France (before certain Towns for the 
 encouraging of Trade, procured Privi- 
 ledges to fend Deputies ; which Depu> 
 ties are now called the third Eftate) and 
 in others confift of the Nobility and 
 Commonalty, which latter had and ftill 
 have the fame right to Intervene and 
 Vote, as the great ones have both in E^g^ 
 land y Spain, and other Kingdomes. 
 
 DolL But you fay nothing of the 
 Clergy, Ifee you are no great friend to 
 them, to leave them out of your Poli- 
 ticks. 
 
 Eng, Gent, The truth is , Doctor, I 
 could wifli there had never been any, 
 the purity of Chriftian Religion, as alfo 
 the good and orderly Cover ninent of the 
 World,had been much better provided for 
 without them,as it was in the Apoftolical 
 time, when we heard nothing of Cler- 
 gy. But my omitting their Reverend 
 Lordlhips was no neglcft, for I meant 
 
 to 
 
[99] 
 to Gome to them in order; for you know 
 that the Northern People did not bring 
 CJiriftianity into thefe parts, but found 
 it here, and were in time converted to 
 it, fo that there could be no Clergy at 
 the firfi; but if I had faid nothing at 
 all of this Race, yet I had committed 
 no Solecifme in the Politicks; for the 
 Bifliops and great Abbots intervene in 
 the States here, upon the fame Founda- 
 tion that the other Peers do, v/z. for 
 their great polleilions, and the depen- 
 dence their Tenants and Vallals have up- 
 on them ; although they being a People 
 of that great fanftity and knowledg,fcorn 
 to intermix fo much as Titles with us 
 profane Lay Ideors, and therefore will 
 be called Lords Spiritual : But you will 
 have a very venerable opinion of them, 
 if you do but confider how they cam© 
 by thefe great pofleffions, which made 
 them claim a third part of the Govern- 
 ment. And truly not unjullly by my 
 rule, fori believe they had not lefs (at 
 one time) than a third part of the lands 
 in moft of thefe Countries. 
 
 H i Nolle 
 
[ loo] 
 
 l^ohle Fen. Pray, how did they acquire 
 thefe Lands ? was it not here by the Cha- 
 ritable donation of piotis Ghriftians, as it 
 was elfewhere ? 
 
 Eng, Gent. Yes, certainly, very pious 
 men; fome of them might be well mean- 
 ing people, but flill fuch as were cheat- 
 ed by thefe holy men, who told them 
 perpetually, both in publick and private, 
 that they reprefented God upon Earth, 
 being Ordained by Authority from him 
 who was his Viceroy here, and that what 
 was given to them was given to God, 
 and he would repay it largely both in 
 this World and the next- This wheedle 
 made our barbarous Anceftors, newly 
 Inftrufted in the Chriftian Faith (if this 
 Religion may be called fo, and fucking 
 in this foolifli Dodrine more than the 
 Doftrine of Chrifl) fo zealous to thefe 
 Vipers, that they would have pluckt 
 out their eyes to ferve them, much more 
 beftow, as they did, the fruitfulleft and 
 bed fituate of their pofleffions upon 
 them : Nay, fome they perfwadcd to 
 take upon them their Callings, vow 
 Chaftity, and give all they had to them, 
 and become ont of them^ amongft whom, 
 
 I be- 
 
[lOl] 
 
 I believe, J:hey found no more fanftity 
 than they left in the World. But this 
 is nothing to another trick they had, 
 which was to infinuate into the moft 
 notorious, and execrable Villains, with 
 which that Age abounded ; Men, who 
 being Princes, and other great Men (for 
 fuch were the Tools they work'd with) 
 had treacheroufly poifgncd , or other- 
 wife murdered their nearefl; Relations, 
 Fathers, Brothers, Wives, to reign, or 
 enjoy their Eftates ; Thefe they did per- 
 fwade into a belief, chat if tiiey had a 
 defire tobefav'd, notwithftanding their 
 execmble Villanies , they need but part 
 with forae of thofe great pofleffions 
 (which they had acquired by thofe a£ts) 
 to their Bilhopricks or Monafteries, and 
 they would pray for their Souls, and 
 they were fo holy and acceptable to 
 God, that he would deny them nothing; 
 which they immediately performed, fo 
 great was the ignorance and blindnefs 
 of that Age ; and you lliall hardly fine} 
 in the ftory of thofe times, any great 
 Monaftery, Abbey, or other Religious 
 Houfe in any of thefe Countries (I ipeak 
 confidently , as to what concerns oijr 
 
 H 3 owf^ 
 
own Saxoyii) that had not its Founda- 
 tion from fome fuch Original. 
 
 Dotl. A worthy beginning of a wor- 
 thy Race! 
 
 Eng, Gent. Well , this DigreiTion is 
 not without its ufe, for it will lliorten 
 our bufinefs ( which is grown longer 
 than I thought it would liave been) tor 
 I fliall mention the Clergy no more, 
 but when ever I fpeak of Peerage, pray 
 take notice that I mean both Lords Spi- 
 ritual and Temporal, fmce they fland 
 both upon the fame foot of Property. 
 But if you pleafe, I will fall immediate- 
 ly to Difcourfe of the Government of 
 EmLwd, and fay no'more of thofe of our 
 Neighbours, than what will fall in by 
 the way,or be hinted to me by your De- 
 mands, for the time runs away, and I 
 know the Do^or muft be at home by 
 noon, where he gives daily charitable 
 audience to an Infinity of poor people, 
 who have need of his help , and who 
 fend or come for it, not having the con- 
 fidence to fend for him, fmce they have 
 nothing to give him, though he be very 
 liberal too of his Vifits to fuch, where 
 he has any knowledge of them : But I 
 
 fpare 
 
fpare his Modefty, which I fee is con- 
 cerned at the Jull Teftimony I bear to 
 his Charity. The Soveraign Power of 
 E>7glartd xhtn, is in King, Lords, and 
 Commons; The Farhamcnts, as they 
 are now conftituted, that is the a/lign- 
 ing a choice to fuch a Number of bur- 
 roughs, as alfo the manner and form of 
 Eledtions and Returns, did come in, as I 
 fuppofe, in the time of//^;;ry the Third, 
 where now our Statute Book begins; 
 and I mull confefs, I was inchned to 
 beheve, that before that time, our Yeo- 
 menry or Commonalty had not formally 
 aflembled in Parliament , but been vir- 
 tually included, and reprefented by the 
 Peers , upon whom they depended : 
 But I am fully convinced, that it was, 
 otherwife, by the learned Difcouries late- 
 ly publiflit by Mr. Petit of the Temple^ 
 and Mr. Attwooddi GraysJnn^ being 
 Gentlerlien whom I do mention hono- 
 ris cjiidfa, and really they defer ve to be 
 honour'd, that they will fpare fome time 
 from the Mechanical part of their Caj- 
 lings (w^hich is to aditt Clients with 
 Counfel, and to plead their Caufes, and 
 w^hich I acknowledge likewife to be 
 
 H 4 honou- 
 
[104] 
 
 honourable) to ftudy the true Interefl: 
 of their Country, and to fliew ho\^ an- 
 cient the Rights of the People in England 
 are, and that in a time when neither 
 Profit nor Countenance can be hop'd for 
 from fo ingenious an undertaking. But 
 I beg pardon for the deviation. Of the 
 three branches of Soveraign Power 
 which PoHticians mention , which are 
 Enafting Laws, Levying of Taxes, and 
 makiiTg War and Peace, the two firftof 
 them areindifputably in the Parhament, 
 and when I fay Parhament, I ever in- 
 tend with tlie King; The lafl has been 
 ufually exercis'd by the Prince, if he can 
 do it with his own Money, yet becaule 
 even in that Cafe it may be ruinous to 
 the Kingdom, by exponng it to an In- 
 vafion, many have affirmed that fuch a 
 Power cannot be by the true and anci- 
 ent tree Government of England^ fup- 
 pofed to be Intrufted in the hands qf 
 one man : And therefore we fee in di- 
 vers Kings Reigns, the Parliament has 
 been Confulted, and their advice ta- 
 fen in thofe matters tliat have either 
 concerned War or Leagues, And that if 
 ithasbepD emitted, Addreifes have beea 
 
 made 
 
made to the King by Parliaments, either 
 to make War or Peace, according to what 
 they thought profitable to the' publick. 
 So that I will not determine whether 
 that power wJiich draws fuch confe- 
 
 Jiuences after it , be by the genuine 
 cnceofour Laws in the Prince or no; 
 although I know of no Statute or writ- 
 ten Record which makes it otherwifc. 
 That which is undoubtedly the Kings 
 Right, or Prerogative, is to Call and Dif- 
 folve Parliaments, to prefide in theni, to 
 approve of all Ads made by them, and 
 to put in Execution, as Supream or So 
 veraign Magiftrate , in the Intervals of 
 Parliaments, and during their Sitting, all 
 Laws made by them, as alfo the Com- 
 mon Law, for which Caufe he has the 
 nomination of all Inferiour Officers, and 
 Miniflers under him, excepting fuch as 
 by Law or Charter are eligible other- 
 wise; and the Power of the Sword, to 
 force Obedience to the Judgments givea 
 both in Criminal and Civil Caufes. 
 
 Do^. Sir, You have made us a very 
 ablblute Prince, what have we left us, 
 if the King have ^11 this Power ? what 
 do our Liberties or Rights fignifie when- 
 ever he pleafes ? E>fg. 
 
[ io6 ] 
 
 Effg, Gent. This Objedion, DoSlor^ 
 makes good what I faid before, that 
 your skill did not terminate in the bo- 
 cly natural, but extend to the Politick; 
 for a more pertinent Interrogatory could 
 never have been made by PUtOy or A- 
 riflotle : In anfwer to which , you may 
 pleafe to underftand. That when thefe 
 Conftitutions were firft made, our An- 
 ceftors were a plain hearted, well-mean- 
 ing People, without Court-referves or 
 tricks, w^ho having made choice of this 
 fort of Government, and having Power 
 enough in their hands to make it take 
 place, did not forefee, or imagine, that 
 any thoughts of Invading their Rights 
 could enter into the Princes Head ; nor 
 do I read that it ever did, till the, Norman 
 Line came to Reign; which coming in 
 by Treaty , it was obvious there was 
 no Conqueft made upon any but Harold^ 
 in whofe (lead William the Firil came, 
 and could claim no more after his Vi- 
 ctory, than what Harold enjoy'd, ex- 
 cepting that he might confifcate (as he 
 did) thofe great men who took part 
 with the wrong Title, and French-men 
 were put into their Eftates, which though 
 
 it 
 
[107 3 
 it made in this Kingdom a mixture be- 
 tween Normans and Saxons, yet produ- 
 ced no Change or Innovation in tiie Go- 
 vernment ; the Norman Peers being as 
 tenacious of their Liberties, and asadru^e 
 in tlie recovery of them to the lull, as 
 the Saxon FamiUes were. Soon atter the 
 death of Wiliiamy and pollibly in his 
 time, there began fome Invafions upon 
 the Rights of tlie Kingdom, which be- 
 gat Grievances , and afteru ards Com- 
 plaints and Difcontents, which grew^ to 
 that height , that the Peers were fnin 
 to ufe tlieir Power, that is. Arm their 
 ValTals to defend the Governmenu ; 
 \\ hilefl: tlie Princes of that Age, firft 
 King 7(7/'/;, and then Henry the Third, 
 got Force together. The Barons calFd 
 in Lewis the Dauphin, Vvhilft the King 
 would have given away the Kingdom 
 to the Sarazens, as he did to the Pope, 
 and armed their own Creatures; fo that 
 a bloody War enfued , for a I moll forty 
 years, ofFand on : as may be read in 
 ourHiflory: The iuccefs was, that the 
 Barons or Peers obtained in the clofc 
 two Charters or Laws for the afcertaln- 
 ing their Rights, by which neither their 
 
 Lives 
 
[ io8 ] 
 
 Lives, Liberties, or Eftates, could ever 
 be in danger any more from any Arbi- 
 trary Power in the Prince ; and fo the 
 good Government of England , which 
 was before this time hke the Law of 
 Nature, only written in the hearts of 
 Men, came to be expreft in* Parchment, 
 and remain a Record in Writing ; though 
 thefe Charters gave us no more than 
 what was our own before ; After thefe 
 Charters were made , there could not 
 chufe but happen fome encroachment 
 upon them ; but fo long as the Peers 
 Jiept their greatnefs, there was no brea- 
 ches but what were immediately made 
 up in Parliament ; which when-ever 
 they aflembled, did in the firft place con- 
 firm the Charters, and made very often 
 Interpretations upon them, for the be- 
 nefit of the People, witnefs the Statute 
 de Ta/lagio non concedendo , and many 
 others : But to come nearer the giving 
 the Dottor an anfwer, you may pleafe 
 to underftand , that not long after 
 the training of thefe forementiond Char- 
 jters, there did arifc a Grievance not 
 forefeen or provided for by them ; and 
 It was fuch an one that had beaten 
 
 down 
 
[ I09 '] 
 
 down the Government at once , if it 
 had not been Redrelled in an Orderly 
 way. This was the Intermiilion of Par- 
 liaments, which could not becalledteut 
 by the Prince ; and he not doing of it, 
 they ceaft to be Adenxbled for Ibme 
 years ; if this had not been fpeedily re- 
 medied, the Barons muft have put on 
 their Armour again ; for who can Ima- 
 gine that fuch brisk Aflertors of their 
 Rights could have acquiefced in anO- 
 miflion tliat ruin'd the Foundation of 
 the Government , which confiding 
 of King, Lords, and Commons^ and 
 having at that time Marched near Fiv^e 
 hundred years upon three Lcggs, mull 
 then have gone on hopping upon one, 
 which could it have gone forward (as 
 was impoflible whileft Property conti- 
 nued where it was) yet w^ould have rid 
 but a little way : Nor can it be won- 
 der'd at, that our great Men made no 
 provifion againft this Grievance in their 
 Charters, bccaufe it was impoffible for * 
 them to imagine that their Prince, who 
 had fo good a ihare in this Government, 
 Ihould go about to dcfttoy it, and to 
 tike that litrden upon himfeJf, which 
 
 by 
 
[ iio] 
 by our Conftitution was undeniably ta 
 be divided between him and his Subjeds : 
 And therefore divers of the great Men 
 of thofe times fpeaking with that ex- 
 cellent Prince King Edward the Firft a- 
 bout it, he, to take away from his Peo- 
 ple all fear and apprehenfion that he in- 
 tended to change the Ancient Govern- 
 ment, called fpeedily a Parliament, and 
 in it confented to a Declaration of the 
 Kingdoms Right in tl at point; with- 
 out the clearing of which all our other 
 Laws had been ufelefs, and the Govern- 
 ment it felf too ; of which the Parlia- 
 ment is (at the leaft) as Eflential a part 
 as the Prince; fo that there pafled a Law 
 in that Parliament that one fliould be 
 held every year, and oftner if need be, 
 which like another Magna Charta, was 
 confirmed by a new Aft made in the 
 time of£<^ii;jr^ the Third, that glorioHS 
 Prince : nor were there any Sycophants 
 in thofe days, who durfl: pretend Loy- 
 alty by ufing Arguments to prove, that 
 it was againft the Royal Prerogative, 
 for the Parliament to entrench upon the 
 Kings Right of calling and Diflblving 
 of Parliaments ; as if there were a Pre- 
 rogative 
 
[ III] 
 
 rogativc in the Crown, to chufe whe- 
 ther ever a ParUament Ihould aficmble, 
 or no ; I would defire no more, if I 
 were a Prince, to make me Grand Seigni- 
 or. Soon after this lail Adt, the Kmg, 
 by reafon of his Wars w^ith France, and. 
 Scotland, and other great Affairs, v\'as 
 forced fometimes to end his Parhaments 
 abruptly , and leave bufinefs undone, 
 (and this not out of Court-tricks, w hich 
 were then unknown) which produced 
 another Aft not long after, by which 
 it was provided. That no Parliament 
 fhould be difmift, till all the Petitions 
 were anfwered ; That is, in the Lan- 
 guage of thofe times, till all the Bills 
 (which were then flyled Petitions) were 
 finifhed, 
 
 Doii, Pray, Sir, give me a little ac- 
 count of this laft A6t you fpeak of ; for I 
 have heard in Difcourfe from many 
 Lawyers, that they believe there is no 
 fuch. 
 
 Eng. Gent, Truly, Sir, T fliall con- 
 fefs to you, that I do not find this Law 
 in any of our Primed Statute-Books ; 
 but that which firil gave me the know- 
 ledge of it was, what was faid about 
 
 three 
 
[ li^ ] 
 three years ago in the Houfe of Com- 
 mons, by a worthy and Learned Gen- 
 tleman, who undertook to produce the 
 Record in the Reisn of Richar<J the Se- 
 cond, and fmce I have queftioned many 
 Learned Counfellors about it, who tell 
 me there is fuch a one; and one of them, 
 who is counted a Prerogative Lawyer, 
 faid it was fo, but that A£t was made in 
 Factious times. Befidcs, I think it will 
 be granted, that tor fome time after, 
 and particularly in the Reigns of Henry 
 the ^th.Henry the ^//^.and Henry the 6th. 
 it was ufual for a Proclamation to be 
 made in Wefimytjler- Hall ^ before the 
 end of every SefFion , that all thofe 
 that had any matter to prefent to the 
 Parliament, Ihould bring it in before 
 fuch a day, for otherwife the Parlia- 
 liaaient at that day fliould determine. 
 But if there were nothing at all of this, 
 nor any Record extant concerning it ; 
 yet I muft believe that it is fo by the 
 Fundamental Law of this Government, 
 which mull be lame and imperfeft with- 
 out it ; for it is all one to have no Par- 
 liaments at all but when the Prince 
 pleafes, and to allow a power in him 
 
 to 
 
[113] 
 to difmifs them when he will, tliat is, 
 when they refufe to do what he will ; 
 fo that it there be no Statute, it is cer- 
 tainly becaufe our wife Anccftors thought 
 there needed none, but that by the very 
 Ellence and Conllitution ot the Govern- 
 ment it is provided tor: and this we may 
 call (it you had rather have it fo) the 
 Common Law, which is of as much va* 
 Jue (it not more) then any Statute, and 
 of which all our good afts of Parliament 
 and Magna Chart a it felf is but Declara- 
 tory; fo that your Objedlion is fuH^ci- 
 ently anfwered in this. That tliough 
 the King is intruded with the formal part 
 of fummoning and pronouncing the 
 Difiblution ot Parliaments , which is 
 done by his Writ, yet the Laws (which 
 oblige him as well as us ) have deter- 
 min'd how and when he fliall do it; 
 which is enough to lliew, that the Kings 
 iliare in the Soveraignty, that is, in the 
 Parliament, is cut out to him by the 
 Law, and not left at his difpofal. Now 
 I come to the Kings part in the Intervals 
 of Parliam.cnt. 
 
 I iStohie 
 
Nolle Ven. Sir, before you do lb,: 
 pray tell us what other Prerogatives the'^ 
 King enjoys in the Governmeat; for o- 
 thervvife, I who am a Venttian, maybe 
 apt \.o think that our Doge, who is call'd 
 our Prince, may have as much Power as 
 yours. 
 
 Eng, Gent. I am in a fine conditioa- 
 amongH: you with my Politicks: the Do* 
 iior tells mc I have made the King Ab- 
 folute, and now you tell me I have made . 
 him a Doge of Fenice; But when your 
 Prince has Power to difpofe of the Pub- 
 Jick Revenue, to name all Officers Eccle- 
 fiafUcal and Civil, that are of truft and 
 . profit in the Kingdome, and to difpofe 
 abfolutely of the whole Militia by Sea 
 and Land, then we will allow him to be 
 like ours, who has all thefe Powers. 
 
 Dotl. Well, ydupuzle me extreamly; 
 for when you had afierted the King's 
 Power to the heighth, in Calling and 
 Diffoiving Parliaments , you gave me 
 fuch f::tisiad:ion, and fliewed me where- 
 in the Law had provided, that this vaft 
 Prerogative could not Iiurt thePeople,that 
 T wastuily ilitisfied, and had not a word 
 to fiiy ; Now you come about again, and 
 
 place 
 
place in tlie Ci ow^n fuch a Power, which 
 in my Judgment is inconfiftent with 
 cur Liberty. 
 
 Eng, Gent, Sir, I fuppofe you mean 
 cliicfly the Power of the Mihtia, which 
 was, I mull confefs, doubtful, before a 
 late Statute declar'd it to be in the King: 
 For our Government hath made no o- 
 ther difpofal of the Militia than what 
 was natural, viz. That the Peers in their 
 feveral Counties , or Jurifdiftions, had 
 the Power of calling together their 
 ValTals, either armed for the Wars, or 
 only fo astocaufc the Law to be exe- 
 cuted by ferving Writs, and in cafe of 
 refiflance, giving pofTeflion; which Lords 
 amongd their own Tenants did then 
 perform the two feveral Offices of Lord 
 Lieutenant, and Sheriff; which latter 
 was but the Earles Deputy, as by his Ti- 
 tle of y ice-Comes do's appear. But this 
 later being of daily neceliity,and Juftice 
 it felf, that is, the Lives, Liberties and 
 Eftatcs of all the People in that County 
 depending upon it, when the greatnefs 
 of the Peers decay 'd (of which we fliall 
 have occafion to fpeak hereafter) the 
 Elefting of Sheriff was referred to the 
 
 I 2 Coun- 
 
[ii6] 
 
 County Court, where It continued till 
 it was placed where it now is by a Sta- 
 tute ; tor the other part of the Militia, 
 which is, the Arming the People for 
 War, it was de fatlo exercifed by Com- 
 mi/llon from the King, to a Lord Lieute- 
 nant fas an image ot the Natural Lord) 
 and other Deputies, and it wastacitely 
 confentcd to, though it were never fet- 
 led by Statute (as 1 faid before) till His 
 Majetties happy Ileflauration ; but to 
 anfwer you, I Ihall fay. That whatever 
 Powers are in the Crown, whether by 
 Statute or by old Prefcription, they are, 
 and mud be underflood to be intrufted 
 in the Prince, for the prefervation of 
 the Government, and for thefafetyand 
 interell: of the People ; and when either 
 the Militia, which is given him for the 
 execution and fupport of the Law, fliall 
 be imploy'd by him to fubvert it (as in 
 the cafe of Ship-Moncy it was) or the 
 Treafureihall be mifapply'd, and made 
 the Revenue ofCourtiers and Sycophants 
 (as in the tin-je of Edivardxh.^ Second) or 
 worthlefs or \\'icked People fliall be put 
 into the greatell places, as inthereigne 
 di Rkhard i\\Q, Second, fn this cafe, 
 
 though 
 
' [ii;] 
 though the Prince here cannot be que- 
 ftionable for it (as the Kings w ere in 
 Sparta, and your Doges I beheve would 
 be) yet it is a great violation of the trull 
 rejx)ledin him by the Government, and 
 a making that Power, which i^ given 
 him by Law, unlawful in the Executi- 
 on. And the frequent examples of Ju 
 iticc inflifted in Parliament upon the 
 King's Minifters for abufmg the Royal 
 Power, liiews plainly that fuch autho- 
 rity is not left in his hands to ufe as he 
 plcafes ; Nay , there have befallen fad 
 troubles and dangers to fomc of thefe 
 Princes themfclves , who have abufcd 
 their Power to the prejudice of the Sub- 
 jedfs ; which although they are no way 
 juftifiable , yet may ferve for an In- 
 rtruftion to Princes, and an example 
 not to hearken to ruinous Councils ; 
 for men when they are enraged do not 
 always confider J uflice of Religion, paf- 
 fion being as natural to man as reafon 
 and vertue, which was the Opinion o^ 
 divine Machiavil: To anfweryou then. 
 I fay, That though we do allow fuch 
 Powers in the Khig, yet ilncc they art 
 given him for edification and not de- 
 
 I X llruflrioii, 
 
[xi8] 
 flruftion, and cannot be abufed without 
 great danger to his Minifiers, and even 
 to himfeh ; we may hope that they can 
 never be abufed but in a broken Govern- 
 ment : And if ours befo (as we fliallfeq 
 anon) the iault cf the ill execution of 
 our Laws is not to be imputed either 
 to the Prince or his Miniilers ; except- 
 ing that the latter may be as we faid 
 bctore juflly punilhable for not ad- 
 vlfmg the Prince to confent to the m.end- 
 ing the frame, of which we Ihall talk 
 more licreafcer : Lut in the mean time I 
 will come to the Kings other Preroga- 
 tives, as having all Royal Mines , the 
 being ferv'd firll before other Creditors 
 where Money is due to him , and to 
 have a fpeedier and eafier way then his 
 Subjedls to recover his Debts and his 
 Rents, &c. But to fay all in one word, 
 v/hen there arjfes any doubt whether 
 any thing be the King's Prerogative or 
 no, this IS the way ot deciding it, viz. 
 To confidcr whether it be for the good 
 and proteftion of the People that the 
 King have fuch a Power; For the defi- 
 nition of Prerogative is a confidernble 
 part of the Common Law, by which 
 
 Power 
 
["9J 
 Power is put Into the Prince for the prc- 
 fervarion of his People. And if it Le not 
 for the good of his ^ubjeds, it is not Pre- 
 rogative, not Law, for our Prince has 
 no Authority of his own, but what was 
 firrt: intrufled in him by the Govern- 
 ment, of which he is Head ; nor is it to 
 be imagined that they would give him 
 more Power than what w as necefiary to 
 Govern them ; For example, the Power 
 of pardoning Criminals condemned, is 
 of fuch ufe to the Lives and Ellates of the 
 People, that without it many w^ould be 
 cxpofed to die unjudly ; As lately a 
 poor Gentlenlan, who by means of the 
 Harangue of a Strepitous Lawyer, was 
 found guilty of Murder, for a Man he 
 never kifd , or if he had, the fad had 
 been but Man-flaughter,- and he had 
 been inevitably murdered himfelf, if his 
 Majefty had not been gracioufly plcafed 
 to extend his Royal Mercy to him; As 
 he didhkewifevouchfafe to do to a Gen- 
 tleman convifted for fpcaking words 
 he never utter'd, or if he b^ad fpoken 
 them, they were but foolilhly, notma- 
 htioufly fpoken. On the other fide, if a 
 Controverf.e iltould anfe, as it did in the 
 
 I .^ be- 
 
[no] 
 
 beginning of the lall Parliament, be- 
 tween the Houfe of Commons and the 
 Prerogative Lawyers, about the choice 
 of their Speaker, thefe latter having in- 
 terefled his Majefty in the Conteft, and 
 made him, by confequence, difoblige/;/ 
 I'tmine, a very Loyal, and a very Worthy 
 Parliament ; and fqr what ? for a Que- 
 flion, which if you will decide it the 
 right way, will be none: forfcttingafide 
 the Prefidents, and the Hiilory when 
 the Crown firft pretended to any lliare 
 in the Choice of a Speaker, which Ar- 
 gument was very well handled by fome 
 of the Learned Patriots then, I would 
 have leave to ask, wliat man can iliew, 
 and what reafon can be alledged, why 
 the proteftion and welfare of the People 
 ihoukl require that a Prerogative fhould 
 be in the Prince to chufe the Mouth of 
 the Houfe of Commons , when there is 
 no particular perfon in his whole Domi- 
 nion that would not think it againft his 
 intereft ? If the Government had given 
 the King Power to nominate his Bayliff^ 
 liis Attorney, or his Referree in any ar- 
 bitration, certainly there can be no ad- 
 V^vntage either to the Soveraign or his 
 
 Sub» 
 
[IZI] 
 
 Su^jeds, that the perfon whofe Office it 
 is to put their deUDcrations into fitting 
 words, and expref all their rcquelts to 
 his Majelty, Ihou'd not be entirely in 
 their own Election and appointment, 
 winch tliere is the more rcafon for 
 roo , bccaufe the Speakers for ma- 
 ny years palt have received Inflru- 
 dhons from the Court, and have bro- 
 ken tlie Priviledges of tiie Houfe, by 
 revealing their Delates, Adjourning 
 them without a Vote, and committed 
 many otner Mifdemeanours, by which 
 they have begotten an ill underftand- 
 ing between the King and his Houfe of 
 Commons, to the iniinite prejudice both 
 of his Majellics Affairs, and his People. 
 Since I have given this rule to Judge 
 Prerogative by, Ilhall fay no more of 
 it ; for as to what concerns the King's 
 Office in the Intervals of Parliament, it 
 is wholly Miniflerial, and is barely to 
 put in Execution the Common Law and 
 the Statutes made by the Soveraign 
 Power, that is, by Himfelf and the Par- 
 liament, without varying one tittle, or 
 fufpending, abrogating, or neglefting 
 the Execution of wy Act what foe ver ; 
 
 and 
 
[ I2.Z ] 
 
 ^nd to this he is Solemnly Sworn at his 
 Coronation : And all hi5 Power in this 
 behalf is in him by Common Law,which 
 is Reafon it felf, WTittfcn as well in the 
 hearts of rational Men, as in the Law^ 
 yers Books. ni 
 
 Nohle Ven. Sir, I have heard much 
 talk of the King's Negative Voice in 
 Parliaments, w hich in my Opinion is as 
 much as a Power to fruftrate, when he 
 pleafes, all the endeavours and labours 
 of his People, and to prevent any good 
 that might acrue to the Kingdom by 
 having the right to meet in Parliament; 
 for certainly, if we in Venice had placed 
 any fuch Prerogative in our Duke, or 
 in any of our Magiflracics, we could 
 not call our felves a free People. 
 
 Enr^. Gent. Sir, I could anlwer you 
 as I did before, that if our Kings have 
 iuch a Power, it ought to be ufed accord- 
 ing to the true and genuine intent of the 
 Government, that is, for the preferva- 
 tion and Intereft of the People , and 
 not for the difappointing the Councils 
 of a Parliament , towards reforming 
 Grievances, and making provifion for 
 the future execution of the Laws ; and 
 
 when- 
 
whenever it is applyed to li nil rate thofe 
 ends, it is a violation of Rights, and in- 
 fringement of the King's Coronation 
 Oatli ; in which tliere is this Claure,That 
 he fliall Cofijirmare coyijuetudmes, (vvhicli 
 in the Latine of thofc times is Icqes) quas 
 vulgm eleger'it. I know feme Criticks, 
 who arc rather Grammarians than Law- 
 yers, have made a difliniSticn between 
 ekgerim and elegero, and will have it, 
 That the King 8vv ears to fucli Laws as 
 the People ihnll have cholcn , and not 
 to thoie they ihall chufe ; Ijut in my O^ 
 pinion, if that Claufe had been intend- 
 ed only to oblige the King to execute 
 the Laws made already, it might have 
 been better cypreft by Jervare cotijuctu- 
 dineSy than by coijirni.ire coyijuetudines ; 
 but I ihall leave this Controverfie unde- 
 cided ; thofe who have a de/lre to fee 
 more of it, may look into thofe quar- 
 relling Dedarations, pro andr^?;/, about 
 this matter, which preceded our unhap- 
 py Civil Wars. Ihis is certain, that 
 there arc not to be found any Statutes 
 that have paficd, without being prefent- 
 ed to his Majefty , or to fome comiiTion- 
 ed by him ; but \^hether fuch Addrefies 
 
 were 
 
[ 124 ] 
 
 were intended for Refpeft and Honour 
 to His Majefty, as the Speaker of the 
 Houfe of Commons and the Lord-May- 
 or of London are brought to him, I leave 
 to the Learned to Difcourle ; only thus 
 •muchwemay affirm. That there never 
 were yet any Parliamentary Requefls, 
 which did highly concern the Publick, 
 prefented to his Majefty, and by him re- 
 fufed, but fuch denials did produce very 
 difmal effe£ls,as may be feen in our Hifto- 
 ries ancient and late ; it being certain, 
 that both the Barons Wars, and ourlall 
 difmal Combuftions, proceeded from no 
 other caufe than the denial of the Prin- 
 ces then reigning to confcnt to the de- 
 fu'es of the States of the Kingdom ; and 
 fuch liatli been the wifdom and goodnefs 
 of our prefcnt gracious Prince, that in 
 twenty years and fomewhat more, for 
 which time we have enjoy'd him fmce 
 his happy Reftauration, he hath not ex- 
 ercised his Negative Voice towards more 
 than one publick Bill ; and that too, was 
 to have continued in force (if it had paf- 
 ied into an Adt) but for fix Weeks, be- 
 ing for raifing the Militia for fo long 
 time; and as for private Bills, which 
 
 are 
 
't. 
 
 [ iM ] 
 
 are matters of meer grace, it is unrea- 
 fonable his Majefty Ihould be reiufed 
 that Right that every EHgliJhfyjiin enjoys, 
 which IS not to be obhged to difpence 
 his favours but where he pleafcs. But 
 tor this point of the Negative Vote, it 
 is pofhble that when we come toDif- 
 courfe of the Cure of our Political Di- 
 flemper, fome of you will propofe the 
 clearing and explanation of this matter, 
 and of all others which may concern the 
 King's Power and the Peoples Rights. 
 
 Noble Ven. But pray. Sir, have not 
 theHoufc of Peers a Negative Voice in 
 all Bills? how come they not to be obli- 
 ged to ufe it for the Pubj'ick Good ? 
 
 Efiz,. Gent, So they are, no doubter 
 
 and the Commons too ; but there is a 
 
 vaft difference between a deliberative 
 
 Vote which the Peers have with thcii^ 
 
 Negative, and that in the Crown to blall 
 
 all without deliberating. The Peers arc 
 
 Co-ordinate w^ith the Commons in pre- 
 
 fenting and hammering of Laws, and 
 
 may fend Bills down to them as well as 
 
 receive any from them , excepting in 
 
 matters wherein the People are to be 
 
 Taxed ; and in this our Government 
 
 imitates 
 
[126] 
 
 imitates the bell; and moft perfect Com-'^ 
 monwealths that ever were; where the 
 Senate a(rifi:eJ in the making of Laws, 
 and by their wifclom, and dexterity, po- 
 liiht, filed and made ready, things for the 
 more populous Aflcmblies; and fome- 
 times by thch' gravity and moderation/ 
 reduced the People to a calmer State, 
 and by their authority and credit ftem'd 
 the Tide, and made the Waters quiet, 
 giving the People time to come to them- 
 lelvcs. And therefore if we had no fuch 
 Peerage nou' upon the old Conllitution, 
 yet we Ihould be necelhtated to make 
 an artificial Peerage, or Senate in ftead 
 of it : which may afiure our prefent 
 Lords, that though their Dependences 
 and Power arc gone, yet that we can- 
 not be without them, and that they 
 hav^enoneed to fear an Anniliilationby 
 our Reformation , as thev fuflered in 
 the late max! times. But I ihall fpeak a 
 word of the i-'eoples Rights, and then 
 flicw how tliis brave and excellent Go- 
 vernment of England came to decay. 
 
 The People by the' Fundamental Laws, 
 that is, by the Conftitution of the Go- 
 vernmenc of RynJ^nd, h?ve entire free- 
 dome 
 
dome in their Lives , Properties , and 
 their Perfons; neither ot which can in 
 the lead fufler, but according to the 
 Laws ah'cady made, or to be made here- 
 after in Parhament, and duly publilht, 
 and to prevent any opprciTion that might 
 happen in the execution of thefe good 
 Laws, which are our Birthright, all 
 Tryals miuft be by twelve IMen of our 
 equals , and of our Neighbourhood; 
 Thefe in all Civil Caufes Judge abfolute- 
 ly, and decide the matter of Fa£t, upon 
 which tlie matter of Law dej^ends ; but • 
 if where matter of Law is in queflion, 
 thefe twelve Men fliall refufe to find a 
 fpccial Verdicb at the direction of the 
 Court , the Judge cannot Control! it, 
 but their Verdidl muft be Recorded. 
 But of thefe matters, as alio of Demur- 
 rers, Writs of Errour, and Arrell of Judg- 
 ment, &c. I have difcours'd to this Gen- 
 tleman (who is a Stranger) before now; 
 neither do's the nnderitanding of the 
 Execution of our Municipal Laws at all 
 belong to this difcourfe : Only it is to 
 be noted, that thefe Juries, or twelve 
 Men, in^U Trials or Caufes which are 
 CriminaXliave abfoliite Powcr,both as tQ 
 
 mritter 
 
[ 1x8 ] 
 
 matter of Law and Fad (except the Par- 
 ty by Demurrer conieis the matter of 
 Fad, and take it out oi their hands,) 
 And thefirft quertion the Oificer asks the 
 Foreman, when they all come in to deli- 
 ver their Verdift, is this, Is he Gunty 
 in manner or form as he is Indifted, or 
 not Guilty ? Which flicws plamly, that 
 they are to Examine and Judge, as well 
 whether, and how far the Fadt commit- 
 ed is Criminal, as whether the perfon 
 charged hathcommited that Fad. But 
 though by the Corruption ot thefe times 
 (the infallible conlequences of a broken 
 frame of Government) this Office of the 
 Juries and Right of En^ujhmen have been 
 of late queftion d,yet it hath been ftrong- 
 ly and effedually vindicated by a learned 
 Author of late, to whom I refer you for 
 more ot this matter. I ihall fay no more 
 of the Rights of the People, but this one 
 thing, That neither the King, nor any 
 by Authority from him, hath any the 
 leaft Power or Jurifdidion over any 
 Etfglijhman , but what the Law give*? 
 them ; and that although all Commiffi- 
 ons and Writs go out in the King's name, 
 yet his Majefty hath no right to Ifflic 
 
 out. 
 
[119] 
 out any Writ (with advice of his Coun- 
 cil, or otherwife) excepting what come 
 out of his Courts, nor to alter any 
 Claufein a Writ, or add any thing to it. 
 And if any perfon fliall be fo wicked as 
 to do any Injuftice to the Life, Liber- 
 ty, orEftate, o{ zny Englifl>matiy by any 
 private command of the Prince , the 
 perfon agrieved, or his next ot kin (if 
 he be allallinated) fliall have the fame 
 remedy againft the Offender, as he 
 ought to have had by the good Laws 
 of this Land; if there had been nofuch 
 Command given, which would be ab- 
 folutely void and null, and underflood, 
 not to proceed from that Royal and 
 lawful Power which is veiled in his Ma- 
 jefty tor the execution of Juftice, and 
 the proteftion of his People. 
 
 Do^, Now I fee you have done with 
 all the Government of England, pray 
 before you proceed to the decay of it, 
 let me ask you what you think of the 
 Chancery , whether you do not be- 
 lieve it a Solecifme in the Politicks to 
 have fuch a Court amongft a free 
 People; what good \v\\\ Magna Chart a j 
 the Petition of Right, or St. Edwards 
 
 K Laws 
 
[130] 
 
 Laws do us to defend our Property ;» if 
 it muft: be entirely fubjefteJ to the ar- 
 bitrary difpofal of one man, whenever 
 any impertinent or petulant perfon 
 ihali put in a Bill againlT: you: how in- 
 confiilent is this Tribunal with all that 
 hath been faid in defend of our rig^lits, 
 or can be faid ? Suppofe the Prince Ihould 
 in time to come fo little rcfpe£t his own 
 honour and the Intereft of his People, as* 
 to place a covetous or revengful perfon 
 in that great Judicatory, what remedy 
 have we again It the Corruption of Regi- 
 flers ; who make wliat Orders they 
 pleafc: Oragainft the whole Hierarchy 
 of Knavifli Clearks, w^hilft not only the 
 punifliing and reforming mifdemeanours 
 depend upon him, who may without 
 control be the moft guilty himfelf, but 
 that all the Laws of England ftand there 
 arraigned before him, and may be con- 
 demiiLd when he pleafes. Is there, or 
 ever was there any fuch Tribunal in the 
 World before, in any Country? 
 
 EuT, Gent, Dodor ^ I find you have 
 had a Suit in Chancery, but I do not 
 intend to contradift or blame your Or- 
 thodox Zeal in this point; This Court 
 
is one of thofe Buildings that cannot 
 be repaired, but mud be demolished; 
 I could inform you how excellently mat- 
 ters of Equity are Adminiflred in other 
 Countries ; And this worthy Gentleman 
 could tell you of the venerable g^^/-^;»/- 
 zia's in his City, where the Law as well 
 as the Fa£b, is at the Bar, and fubjeft to 
 the Judges, and yet no complaint made 
 or grievance fuffered ; but this is not a 
 place for it, this is but the fuperfhrufture^ 
 we mull fettle the foundation firfl: ; every 
 thing t\k is as much out of Order as this; 
 Trade is gone. Suites are endlefs , and 
 nothing amongft us harmonious, but 'all 
 will come right when our Government 
 is mended, and never before, though our 
 Judges were all Angels ; this is the pri^ 
 mum qucertte^ when you have this, all o- 
 ther things fliall be added unto you; 
 when that is done, neither the Chance- 
 ry (which is grown up to this fmceour 
 Anceftors time) nor the Spiritual Courts, 
 nor the Cheats in trade, nor any other 
 abufes, no not the Gyant Popery it felf^ 
 fliall ever be able to ftand before a Par- 
 liament, no more than one of us can live 
 like a Salamander in the fire. 
 
 K % tJohU 
 
!>^ohk Fen. Therefore , Six , pray let 
 us come now to the decay ot your Go- 
 vernment, that we may come the fooner 
 to the happy rellauration. 
 
 Eng, Gent, Tliis harmonious Govern- 
 ment of England being founded as has 
 been faid upon Property, it was impof- 
 fible it fhould be fliaken, fo long as Pro- 
 perty remained where it was placed ,• for 
 if, when the ancient Owner.s the Eri- 
 tains fled into the Mountains, and left 
 their Lands to the Invaders (who divi- 
 ded them, as is above related) They had 
 made an Agrarian Law to fix it ; then 
 our Government, and by confequence 
 our Happinefs, had been for ought we 
 know Immortal; for our Conftitution, 
 as it was realiy a mixture of the three, 
 which are Monarchy, Arifiocracy, and De- 
 mocracy (as has been faid) fo the w eight 
 and predominancy remained in th^Opti- 
 macy, wlio poflelled nine parts in ttn of 
 the Lands; And the Prince but about a 
 tenth part. In this I count all the Peo- 
 ples fliarctothe Peers, and therefore do 
 not trouble my felf to enquire what pro- 
 portion was allotted to them, for that al- 
 though they had an Hereditary right in 
 
 their 
 
[133] 
 their Lands, yet it was fo clogd with 
 Tenures and Services, that they depend- 
 ed, as to pubUck matters, wholly on 
 their Lords, who by them could ferve^ 
 the King in his Wars , and in time of 
 Peace, by leading the People to what 
 they pleafed: Could keep the Royal 
 Power within its due bounds, and alfo 
 hinder and prevent the People from In- 
 vading the Rights of the Crown, fo that 
 they were the Bulwarks of the Govern- 
 ment, which in efTed was much more 
 an Ariftocracy, than either a Monarchy^ or 
 Democracy. And in all Governments, 
 where Property is mixt, the Adminiflra- 
 tion is fo too: And that part which hath 
 the greater Ihare in the Lands, will have 
 it too in the Jurifdiftion : And fo in Com- 
 monwealths, the Senate or the People 
 have more or lefs Power, as they have 
 more or fewer Po(Teflions; aswasmoft vi- 
 fible in Rome, where in the beginning, 
 the Fatrkii could hardly bring the Peo- 
 ple to any thing; but afterwards, when 
 the Afiatick Conquefts had inricht the 
 Nobility to that degree, that they were 
 able to purchafe a great part of the Lands 
 in Italy, the People were all their Clients, 
 
 K 3 and 
 
CM4] 
 and eafiiy brought even to cut the throats 
 ot their Redeemers the Gracchi, who had 
 carried a Law for refloring them their 
 Lands, but enough of this before. I will 
 not trouble my felf nor you, to fearch 
 into the particular caufes of this change, 
 which has been made in the poflellions 
 here in England^ But it is vifible that 
 the fortieth part of the Lands, which 
 were at the beginning in the hands of the 
 Peers and Church, is not there now ; be- 
 fides, that not only all Villanage is long 
 fince aboUifiied, but the other Tenures 
 arefoaltered and (jualified, that they fig- 
 nifie nothing towards making the Yeo- 
 mandry depend upon the Lords. The 
 cpnfequence is. That the natural part of 
 our Government, which is Power, is by 
 means of Property in the hands of the 
 People, wluleft the artificial part, or the 
 Parchment, in waiich the Form of Go- 
 vernment is written, remains the fame. 
 Now Art is a very good fervant and help 
 to Nature, but very weak and inconiide- 
 rable, when flie oppofes her, and fights 
 with her ; it would be a very Impar cott^ 
 yejfus-, between Parchment and Power : 
 This alone is the caufe of all the diforder 
 
 you 
 
CI35] 
 
 you heard of, and now fee in En^land^ 
 and of which every man gives a reafoa 
 according to his own fancy, whileft few 
 hit the right caufe ; fome impute all to 
 the decay of Trade, others to the 
 growth ot Popery, which are both great 
 Calamities, but they are Effeds, and not 
 Caufes ; And if in private Famihes there 
 were the fame caufes, there would be the 
 fame cfTeas. Suppofe now you had five 
 or fix Thoufand pounds a year, as it is 
 probable you have, and keep forty Ser- 
 vants, and at length, by your negleft 
 and the induftry and thrift of your Do- 
 mefticks, you fell one Thoufand to your 
 .Steward, another to your Cleark of the 
 Kitchin, another to your r)ayliff5 till all 
 were gone, can you believe that thefe 
 Servants, when they had lb good Eftates 
 of their own, and you nothing left to 
 give them, would continue to live with 
 you, and to do their fervice as before ? 
 It is juft fo with a whole Kingdom. In 
 our Anceftors time, moft of the Mem- 
 bers of our Houfe of Commons, thought 
 it an honour to retain to fome great 
 Lord, and to wear his blew Coat : And 
 when they had made up their Lords 
 
 K 4 Train, 
 
[i3<S3 
 Train, and waited upon him from his 
 own Houfe to the Lords Houfe, and 
 made a Lane for him to enter, and de- 
 parted to fit themfelves in the Lower 
 Houfe of ParHament, as it was then (and 
 veryjuflly) called; can you think that 
 any thing could pafs in fuch a Parlia- 
 ment that was not ordered by the Lords > 
 Befides, thefe Lords were the King'sgreat 
 Council in the Intervals of Parliaments, 
 and were called to advife of Peace and 
 War, and the latter was feldom made 
 without the confent of the major part ; 
 if it were not, they would not fend their 
 Tenants, which was all the Mihtia of 
 England (bcfides the King's tcntiipart;) 
 can it.be beheved, that in thofe days, tiie 
 Comn^ons Ihould diflike any thing the 
 Lords did in the Intervals, or that they 
 w^ould havedifputed their Right to re- 
 ceive Appeals from Courts of Equity, if 
 they had pretended to it in thofe days, or 
 to mend Money bills. And what is the 
 reafon, but becaufe the Lords themfelves 
 at that time reprefented all their Tenants 
 (that is, all the People) in fome fort ; al- 
 though the Houfe of Commons did Af- 
 femble to prefent their Grievances, yet 
 
[137] 
 
 all great Affairs of high Importance con- 
 cerning the Government, was Tranfad- 
 ed by the Lords, and the War which was 
 made to preferve it, was called the Bar- 
 rons Wars, not the War of bothHoufes: 
 Now if this Property, which is gone out 
 of the Peerage into the Commons, had 
 pa/Ted into the King's hands, as it did in 
 Egypt in the time of 'jofeph, as was be- 
 fore faid, the Prince had had a very eafie 
 and peaceable reign over his own Vaflals, 
 and might either have refufed, jiiflly, to 
 have Aifembled the Parliament any 
 more ; or if he had pleafed to do it, might 
 have for ever managed it as he thought 
 fit : But our Princes have wanted a Jo- 
 Jeph, that is a wife Counfellor, and in^ 
 ftead of faving their Revenue, wliich was 
 very great, and their expences fmall,and 
 buying in thofe Purchafes which the vaft 
 expences and luxury of the Lords made 
 ready for them, they have alienated their 
 own Inheritance; fo that now the Crown 
 Lands, that is, the publick Patrimony, 
 is come to make up the intereft of the 
 Commons, whileft the King muft have 
 a precarious Revenue out ot the Peoples 
 Purfes, and be beholding to the Parlia- 
 ment 
 
mcnt for his Bread in time of Peace ; 
 whereas tlie Kings their Predeceflbrs ne- 
 ver asked Aid of his Subjeds, but in 
 time of War and Invafion : And this a- 
 lone (though there were no other decay- 
 in the Government) is enough to make 
 the King depend upon his People, which 
 is no very good condition for a Monar- 
 chy. 
 
 NoMe Ven. But how comes it to pafs 
 that other Neighbouring Countries are in 
 fo fetled a State in refped of England ? 
 does their Property remain the fame it 
 was, or is it come into the hands of the 
 Prince ? You know you were pleafed to 
 admits that w^e lliould ask you en pajjant, 
 fomethingof other Countries. 
 
 Eng, Gent. Sir, I thank you for it, and 
 fliall endeavour tofatisfie you. I fliall 
 fay nothing of the fmali Princes oi Ger- 
 many, who keep in a great meafure their 
 ancient bounds, both of Government 
 and Property ; and if their Princes now 
 and then exceed their part, yet it is in 
 time of Troubles and War, and things 
 return into their right Chanel of Aflem- 
 bling the fev^eral States, which are yet 
 in being every where : But Germany ly- 
 ing 
 
[139] 
 
 iflg fo expofed to the Invafion of the 
 lurk oxv the one fide, and of the French 
 on the other ; and having ever had e- 
 nough to do to defend their ieveral Liber- 
 ties againft the encroachments of the 
 Houfe or Aujiria (in which the Imperial 
 dignity is become m feme fort Heredita- 
 ry) if there hath been fomething of ex- 
 traordinary Power exercifed oFiate years, 
 I can fay Inter ar map lent leges ^ but be- 
 fides their own particular States, they 
 have the Diet of the Empire, w hich ne- 
 ver fails to Mediate and Compofe things, 
 if there be any great opprefiion ufed by 
 Princes to their Subjects, or irom one 
 Prince or State to another. I fliall there- 
 fore confine my fclf to the three great 
 Kingdoms, France y Spain, and Poland; 
 for as to Denmark and Sweden, the firft 
 hath lately changed its Government, and 
 not only made the Monarchy Heredita- 
 ry, which was before Eledive, but has 
 puU'd down the Nobility, and given their 
 Power to the Prince ; which ho>v it will 
 fucceed time will fliew. Sweden remains 
 in point of Conftitution and Property 
 exadly as it did anciently, and is a well 
 Governed Kingdom. The firft of the or 
 
 ther 
 
[ 140 ] 
 
 tker three is France^ of which I have 
 fpokcn before, and fliali only add, That 
 though it be very true, that there is Pro- 
 perty in France, and yet the Govern- 
 ment is Defpotical at this prefent, yet it 
 is one of thofe violent States, which the 
 Grecians called Tyrannies .• For if a Law- 
 ful Prince, that is one who being fo by 
 Law, and fworn to rule according to it, 
 breaks his Oaths and his Bounds, and 
 reigns Arbitrarily, he becomes a Tyrant 
 and an Ufurper, as to fo much as he af- 
 fumes more than the Conftitution hath 
 given him ,• and fuch a Government, be- 
 ing as I faid violent, and not natural, but 
 contrary to the Intereft of the People, 
 firfl cannot be lading, when the adven- 
 titious props which lupport it fail; and 
 whilft it does endure muft be very un- 
 eafie both to Prince and People ; the firft 
 being necelTitated to ufe continual oppref- 
 fion, and the latter to fuffer it. 
 
 DotL You arepleafed to talk of the op- 
 preflion of tho People under the King of 
 Franc 3, and for that reafon, tall it a vio- 
 lent Government, when, ifl^emember, 
 you did once to day extoll the Monar- 
 chy of the Turks for well founded and 
 
 natural ; 
 
C 141 ] 
 
 natural ; Are not the People in that Em- 
 pire as much opprelTed as in France ? 
 
 Eng. Gent, By no means ; unlefs you 
 will call it opprellion for the Grand Seig- 
 nior to feed all his People out of the pro- 
 duft of his own Lands; and though they 
 ferve him for it, yet that does not alter 
 the Cafe, for if you fet poor men to work 
 and pay them for it, are you a Tyrant, 
 or rather, are not you a good Common- 
 wealths-man, by helping thofe to live, 
 who have no other way of doing it but 
 by their labour ? But the King oi France 
 knowing that his People have , and 
 ought to have Property, and that he has 
 no right to their Pofieilions, yet takes 
 what he pleafes from them, without their 
 confent, and contrary to Law ; So that 
 when he fets them on work he pays them 
 w hat he pleafes, and that he levies out 
 of their own Eftates. I do not affirm 
 that there is no Government in the 
 World,but where Rule is founded in Pro- 
 perty, but I fay there is no natural fixed 
 Government , but where it is fo ; and 
 when it is otherw^ife, the People are per- 
 petually complaining, and the King in 
 perpetual anxietv, always in fear of his 
 
 Sub- 
 
[ M^] 
 Subjefts, and feeking new ways to fe- 
 cure himfelf ; God having been fo merci- 
 ful to mankind, that he has made nothing 
 fale for Princes, but what is Jull and Ho" 
 nell. 
 
 Nolle Ven. But you were faying juft 
 now, that this prefent Conftitution in 
 France will fall when the props fail ; we 
 in Italy, who live in perpetual fear of the 
 greatnefs of that Kingdom, would be glad 
 to hear fomething of the decaying of 
 thofe props; What are they, I befeech 
 you > 
 
 Eng. Gent, The firft is the greatnefs of 
 the prefent King, whofe heroick Aftions 
 and Wifdom has extinguiflied envy in 
 all his Neighbour Princes, and kindled 
 f ear,and brought him to be above all poffi- 
 bility of control at home; not only be- 
 caufe his Subje£ls fear his Courage, but 
 becaufe they have his Vertue in admira* 
 tion, and amidft all their miferies cannot 
 chufebut have fomething of lejoycing, 
 to fee how high he hath mounted the 
 Empire and Honour of their Nation.The 
 next prop is the change of their ancient 
 Conftitution, in the time of Charles the 
 feventh by Confentj for about that time 
 
 the 
 
[Ml 3 
 
 the Country being lb wafted by the In- 
 vafion and Excurfions of the Englijh ^ The 
 States then aileoibled Petitioned the King 
 that he would give them leave to go 
 home, and difpoie of Affairs himfelf, and 
 Order the Government for the future as 
 bethought fit: Upon this, hisSuccellbr 
 Lewis the Eleventh, being a crafty 
 Prince, took an occafion to call the 
 States no more, but to fupply them with 
 an Ajjemhledes notables, which were cer- 
 tain men of his own nomination, like 
 Barhones ParUament here, but that they 
 wxre oi better quaUty: Thefe in fucceed- 
 ing reigns ( bemg the bed men of the 
 Kingdom) grew Troublefome andlntra- 
 ftable ; fo tiiat for fome years the Edifts^ 
 have been verified (that is in our Lan- 
 guage) Bills have been paffed in the 
 Grand Chamber of the Parliament atF^-- 
 risy commonly called the Cbamlre d' au-^ 
 dience, who lately, and fince the Impri- 
 fonment of Prefident Broufelks and others 
 during this King's Minority, have never 
 refufed or fcrupled any Edidts whatfo- 
 ever. Now when-ever this great Kiiig 
 dies, and the States of the Kingdom are re- 
 ftored, thefe two great props of Arbitrary 
 
 Power > 
 
[ M4 1 
 Power arc taken away. Befides riiefe 
 two, the Conftitution of the Govern- 
 ment oi France itfclf, is fomewhat better 
 fitted than ours to permit extraordinary 
 Power in the Prince, for the whole Peo- 
 ple there poflelFing Lands, are Gentle- 
 men ; that is, infinitely the greater part, 
 which was the reafon why in their Af- 
 fembiy of Eftates, the Deputies of the 
 Provinces (which we call here Knights of 
 the Shire) were chofen by, and out of 
 the Gentry, and fate with the Peers in 
 the fame Chamber, as reprefenting the 
 Gentry only , called petite nolle [fe. 
 Whereas our Knights here (whatever 
 their blood is) are chofen by Common- 
 ers, and are Commoners, our Laws and 
 Government taking no notice of any No- 
 bility but the perfons of the PeerSjWhofc 
 Sons are likewife Commoners, even their 
 eldeft, whileft their Father lives : Now 
 Gentry are ever more tradable by a 
 Prince, than a wealthy and numerous 
 Commonalty ; out of which our Gentry 
 (at leafl: thofe we call fo) are raifed from 
 time to time: For when-ever either a 
 Merchant, Lawyer, Tradefman, Grafier, 
 Farmer, or any other get fuch an Eftate, 
 
 as 
 
as that he or his Son can live upon his 
 Lands, without exercifing of any other 
 Calhng, he becomes a Gentleman. I do 
 not fay, but that we have Men very No- 
 bly defcended amongft thefe, but they 
 have no preheminence , or diilindtion 
 by the Laws or Government. Befides 
 this, the Gentry in France are very 
 needy, and very numerous ; the reafon 
 of w^hich is, That the Elder Brother, in 
 mofl parts of that Kingdom, hath no 
 more fliare in the divifion of the Pater- 
 nal Eflate, than the Cadets, or Younger 
 Brothers, excepting the Principal Houfc, 
 with the Orchards and Gardens about it, 
 which they call Vol de Chappon^ as who 
 fliould fay, As far as a Capon can fly aft 
 once. ThisHoufe gives him the Title his 
 Father had, v/ho was called Seignior, oi* 
 Baron,or Count of that place; which if he 
 fells, he parts with his Baronfliip, and for 
 ought I know becomes in time roturkr^ 
 or ignoble. This praftice divides the 
 Lands into fo many fmall parcels, that 
 the PofTeffors of them being Noble, and 
 having little to maintain their Nobility^ 
 are fam to feek their Fortune, which 
 they can find no where {o well as at 
 
 L thQ 
 
[146] 
 
 the Court, and fo become the King's 
 Servants and Souldiers, for they are ge- 
 nerally Couragious, Bold, and of a good 
 Meen. None of tliefe can ever advance 
 themfelvcs, but by their defert, which 
 makes them hazard chemfelves very def- 
 perately, by which means great numbers 
 of them are kilfd, and the reft come in 
 timeto be great Officcrs,and live fplendid- 
 ly upon the King s Purfc, who is likewife 
 very liberal to them,and accordingto their 
 refpeftive merits, gives them often in the 
 beginning of a Campagne a confiderable 
 fum to furniih out their Equipage : Thefe 
 are a great Prop to the Regal Power, it 
 being their Intereft to fupport it, left 
 their gaki Ihould ceafe, and they be re- 
 duced to be poor ProvinczauXy that is. 
 Country Gentlemen again; whereas, if 
 they had fuch Eftates as our Country 
 Gentry have, they would defire to 
 be at home at their eafe, whileft thefe 
 (having ten times as much from the King 
 as their ow^n Eftate can yield them,which 
 fupply muft fail, if the King's Revenue 
 were reduced) are perpetually engaged 
 to make good all exorbitances. 
 
Cm?] 
 
 bo^L This is a kind of Governing by 
 Property too, and it puts me in mind of 
 a Gentleman of good Ellate in our Coun- 
 try, who took a Tenants Son of his to be 
 his Servant, whofe Father not long after 
 dying, left him a Living of about ten 
 pound a year: the young Man's Friends 
 came to him, and asked him why he 
 would ferve now he had anHllate of his 
 own able to maintain him : his Anfwer 
 was, That his own Lands would yield 
 him bwta third part of what his Service 
 was worth to him in all; befides, that he 
 lived a pleafant Life, wore good Clothes, 
 kept good Company, and had the con- 
 verfation of very pretty Maids that were 
 his Fellow-fervants, which made him ve- 
 ry well digeft the name of being a Ser- 
 vant. 
 
 Eng. Gent, This is the very Cafe ,• but 
 yet Service (in both thefe Cafes) is no 
 Inheritance; and when there comes a 
 Peaceable King in France^ who will let 
 his Neighbours be quiet, or one that i« 
 covetous, thefe fine Gentlemen will lofe 
 their Employments, and their King this 
 Prop ; and the rather, becaufe thefe Gen- 
 tlemen do not depend (as was (aid before) 
 
 L % in 
 
[148] 
 
 in any kind upon the great Lords (whofe 
 ftanding Interellis at Court) and fo can- 
 not in a change, be by tliem carried over 
 to advance the Court defigns againft their 
 own good and that ot their Coun- 
 try ; and thus much is fufficient to be faid 
 concerning France, As for Spain, I be- 
 lieve there is no Country ( excepting 
 Sweden) in Chriflendom, where the Pro- 
 perty has remained fo intirely the fame it 
 was at the beginning ; and the reafon is, 
 the great and ftrift care that is taken to 
 hinder the Lands from palling out of the 
 old owners hands;for except it be by Mar- 
 riages, no man can acquire another man's 
 Eftate, nor can any Grandee, or Titula- 
 do, or any other Hidalgo there, alienate 
 or engage his Paternal, or Maternal E- 
 ftate, otherwife than for his Life, nor can 
 alter Tenures, or extinguifli Services, or 
 difmember Mannors, for to this the Prin- 
 ces con fen t mull be had, which he never 
 gives, till the matter be debated in the 
 Confejo de Camera, which is no Junta or 
 fecret Confejo de Guerras^ but one where- 
 in the great men of the Kingdom inter- 
 vene, and wherein the great matters 
 concerning the prefervation of the Go~ 
 
 vern- 
 
[149] 
 
 vernment are tranfaded, not relating to 
 Foreign Provinces, or Governments, but 
 to the Kingdom of Cajlile, and Leon, of 
 which I only fpeak now : It is true, there 
 have been one or two exceptions againfl 
 this fevere Rule, fince the great calami- 
 ties of Spain, and two great Lordihips 
 have been fold, the Marquifate del Mo- 
 najlero, to an AJfent'ifla Genocfe, and ano- 
 ther to Selaflian Cortiza, a Portuguefe, of 
 the fame Profeflion, but both thefe have 
 bought the intire Lordihips, without 
 curtailing or altering the condition in 
 which thefe two great Eflates were be- 
 fore ; and noCwithilanding, this hath 
 caufedfo much repining amongftthe na- 
 tural Godos (as the Cajlillians call them- 
 felves ftill for glory) that I believe this 
 will never be drawn into an Example 
 hereafter : Now the Property remaining 
 the fame, the Government doth fo too, 
 and the King's Domeftick Government, 
 over his natural Spaniards, is very gen- 
 tle, whatever it be in his Conquered Pro- 
 vinces; and the Kings there have very 
 great advantages of keeping their great 
 Men (by whom they Govern) in good 
 temper, by reafon of the great Govern- 
 
 L 3 ments 
 
[150] 
 menrs they have to beftow upon tJiem. 
 both ix\ Europe and the Indies, which 
 changing every three years, go in an 
 Age through all the Grandees, which 
 are not very numerous : Befides, Caftlle 
 Having been in the time of King Roderi^ 
 go overrun and Conquered by the 
 Moon, who Governed there Defpotical- 
 ^' u "^^ hundreds of years, before it 
 could be recovered again by the old In- 
 habitants , who fled to the Mountains ; 
 vvnen they were at length driven out, 
 the Count of O///^ found a Tax kt up- 
 on alf Commodities whatfoever, by the 
 Mocs m their Reign, called ^/cavat, 
 Which was an eafie matter to get conti- 
 nued (when their old Government was 
 reltoredj by the Cortes, or States, and 
 10 It has continued ever fince , as the 
 ^^j,'^^^ done here, which being im- 
 ^?j,Py them who drove and kept out 
 the King, does now fince his happy Re- 
 itauration remain a Revenue of the 
 «-rown. This Jkavat, or Excife, is a 
 very great Revenue, and fo prevented, 
 J?r lome time, the neceflities of the 
 J-iown, and made the Prince have the 
 m need of asking Relief of his People 
 
 • • (the 
 
[ip3 
 
 (the ordinary caufe of difgufl:,) fo that 
 the Cortes, or AlTembly of the States.has 
 had httle to do of late, though they are 
 duly aflembled every year, but feldoni 
 contradift whatisdellred by the Prince; 
 iot there are no greater Idolaters of their 
 Monarch in the World tlian the Caftili- 
 ans are, nor who drink deeper of the 
 Cup of Loyalty : fo that in fliort, the Go- 
 vernment in Spain is as ours was in 
 Queen Elizaheths time , or in the firft 
 year after his now Majeflies Return, 
 when the Parliament, for a time. Com* 
 plimented the Prince, who had by that 
 means both his own Pow^r and the 
 Peoples, which days I hope to fee again 
 upon a better and more lading Founda- 
 tion. But before I leave Spainy I muft 
 fay a word of the Kingdom of Arr agony 
 which has not at all times fo quiet a 
 ftate of their Monarchy as CaflHe hath 
 enjoyed ; for after many Combuffions 
 which happened there, concerning their 
 Fueros and Frivikgtos, which are their 
 Fundamental Laws , the King one day 
 coming to his Seat in Parliament, and 
 making his demands, as was ufual, They 
 told him that they had a Requeft to make 
 
 L 4 to 
 
to himfirll,and he withdrawing thereup- 
 on, for he had no right of fitting there 
 to hear their Debates, they fell into dif- 
 courfe, how to make their Government 
 fubfift againft the encroachments of the 
 Prince upon them, and went very high 
 in their Debates, which could not chule 
 but come to the King's ear, who walked 
 in a Gallery in the fame Palace to expert 
 the iffue ; and being in great paflion was 
 ftQa to draw out his Dagger very, often, 
 and thrufl it again into the flieath, and 
 heard to fay, Sangre ha cle cojlar, which 
 coming to the knowledg of the Eftates, 
 they left off the Debate, and fentfome 
 of their number to him, to know what 
 blood it fliould coft , and whether lie 
 meant to murder any body ; he drew 
 out his Dagger again, and pointing it 
 to his own breaft, he faid, Sangre de Reys, 
 leaving then; in doubt,whether he meant 
 that his Subjefts would kill him, or 
 that he would do it himfelf ; however, 
 that Parliament ended very peaceably, 
 and a famous fettlement was there and 
 then made, by which a great perfon was 
 to be chofen every Parliament , who 
 fliould be as it were an Umpire between 
 
 the 
 
the Kins and his People, for the Execu- 
 tion of tiieir Laws, and the Prefervation 
 ot their Government^dieir Fueros and 
 Privikiios, which are their Courts of 
 Juftice; and their Charters. This Oft^ • 
 cer was called, ElJuJlkiad'Arragon,^nd 
 his duty was to call together the whole . 
 Power of the Kingdom, when-evcr any 
 of the aforefaid Rights were by open 
 force violated or invaded, and to admo- 
 monilli the King, when-ever he heard of 
 any clandeftine Councils among them 
 to that effea. It was hkcwife made 
 Treafon.for anyperfon of what quality 
 foever, to refufe to repair upon due fum- 
 mons to any place where this Jujticm 
 ihould erea his Standard, or to with- 
 draw himfelf without leave, much more 
 to betray him or to revolt from luni : 
 Befides, mt\ixs Cortes, or Parliament, the 
 old Oath which at tlie firft Foundation ot 
 their State was ordered to be taken by 
 the Iving at his admittance, was again 
 revived, and which is in thefe words, Nos 
 quevalemostanto camo ms, y podemos mas, 
 OS eligimos nuefiro Rey, conque nosmvdeys 
 tiuejhos fueros y Privilegios, y fi rto, no. 
 Tliat h. We who are as good as you, and 
 
 more 
 
[ ^5-4 ] 
 more Powerful, do chufe you our Kingv 
 upon condition that you preferve our 
 Rights and Privdledgcs, and if not, not 
 Notwithftanding all this, Fbilip the Se- 
 cond, being both King of Cajlile and 
 Arragon^ picked a quarrel with the latter, 
 by demanding his Secretary Antonio 
 Perez-, who fled from the King's difplea- 
 fure thither, being his own Country ; 
 and they refufing to. deliver him (it be- 
 iog exprefly contrary to a Law of Arra- 
 gon^ that a Snbjeft of that Kingdom 
 ihouldbe againft his will carried to be 
 tryed elfe where) the King took that oc- 
 cafion to Invade them with the Forces 
 of his Kingdom of Cajlile, fwho had e- 
 ver been Rivals and Enemies to the Ara- 
 gonefes) and they to defend themfelves 
 under their Juftk/a^ who did his part, 
 faithfully and couragiouily; but the Ca- 
 j}iltans*h€ing old Soldiers, and thofe of 
 Arragon but County Troops, the former 
 prevailed, and fo this Kingdom in get- 
 ting that of C Aft lie by a Marriage (but 
 an Age before) loft its owh Liberty and 
 Government ; for it is fince made a Pro- 
 vince, and Governed by a Vice Roy from 
 Madrid, although they keep up the for- 
 maUty of their Cortes ft ill. Dot}., 
 
Dotl. No man living that knew the 
 hatred and hoftihty that ever was be- 
 tween the Enilijh and Scots, could have 
 imagined in the years 1639, and 1640. 
 when our King was with great Armies of 
 Englijh upon the Frontiers of Scotland, 
 ready to Invade that Kingdom, that this 
 Nation would not have a/iifted to have 
 brought them under ; but it proved o- 
 therwife. 
 
 Eiig, Gent. It may be they feared. 
 That when Scotland was reduced to fla- 
 very, and the Province pacified, and 
 Forces Tvept up there. That fuch Forces 
 and greater might have been employed 
 here, to reduce us into the fame conditi- 
 on; an apprehenfion which at this time 
 flicks with many of the common People, 
 and helps to fill up the meafure of our 
 Fears and Diltraftions. But the vifible 
 reafon why the i£';^g/i/:^ were not at that 
 time very forward to opprefs their Neigh- 
 bours, was the confideration. That they 
 were to be Invaded for refufing to receive 
 from hence certain Innovations io mat- 
 ters of Religion, and the wwlliip of God, 
 which had not long before been introdu- 
 ced here, and therefore the People of 
 
 this 
 
[15-6] 
 
 this Kingdom were unwilling to perpe- 
 tuate a Mungrel Church here, by im- 
 pofing it upon them : But I do exceed- 
 ingly admire, when I read our Hiftory, 
 to fee how zealous and eager our Nobili- 
 ty and People here were anciently to af- 
 fert the Right of our Crown to the King- 
 dom of France^ whereas it is vifible, that 
 if we had kept France (for we Conquer- 
 ed it intirely and fully) to this day, we 
 muft have run the fate of Arragon, and 
 been in time ruined andopprefl; by our 
 own Valour and good Fortune; a thing 
 that was forefeen by the Macedonians^ 
 when their King Alexander had fubdu- 
 ed all Perfia and the Raft ; who weigh- 
 ing how probable it was, that their 
 Prince having the polleffion of fuch great 
 and flourifliing Kingdoms, fliould change 
 his Domicllium Imperii, and inhabite in 
 the Center of his Dominions, and from 
 thence Govern Macedon, by which means 
 tht Grecians, who by their Vertue and 
 Valour had Conquered and fubdued the 
 Barbarians, fliould in time (even as an 
 effeft of their Viftories) be oppreft and 
 tyrannized over by them, and this pre- 
 cautious forefight in the Greeks (as was 
 
 fully 
 
C i?7 ]. 
 fully believed in that Age) haftened the 
 fatal Catailrophe of that great Prince. 
 
 Doti, Well, I hope this confideration 
 will fore-arm our Parliaments, That fhey 
 will not eafily fuffer their eyes to be daz- 
 led any more with the falfe glory of Con- 
 quering France. 
 
 Nohie Ven, You need no great cauti- 
 ons againft Conquering Frmce at this pre- 
 fent, and I believe your Parliaments need 
 as little admonition againft giving of Mo- 
 ney towards new Wars or Alliances,that 
 fine wheedle having lately loft them e- 
 nough already ; therefore, pray, let us 
 fuffer our Friend to go on. 
 
 Eng. Gent. I have no more to fay of 
 Foreign Monarchies,but only to tell you^ 
 That Poland is both Governed and Pof- 
 felled by fome very great Perfons or Po- 
 tentates, called Falatines, and under 
 them by a very numerous Gentry; for 
 the King is not only Eledfive, but fo li- 
 mited, that he has little or no Power, 
 but to Command their Armies in time of 
 War, which makes them often chufeFor- 
 reigners ofgreat Fam.e for MiUtary Ex- 
 ploits : and as for the Commonalty or 
 Countrymen, they are abfolutcly Slaves 
 
 or 
 
or Villains. This Gom-nment is es- 
 treamly confufed, by reafon of the nume- 
 roufnels ot the Gentry, who do not al- 
 ways meet by way of reprefentation as 
 in odier Kingdoms, but fometimes for 
 the choice of their King, and upon other 
 great occafions, colleftively, in the Field 
 as the Tribes did at Rome, which would 
 rnake things much more turbulent if all 
 this body of Gentry did not wholly de- 
 pend tor their EUates upon the favour 
 of the Palatines their Lords,which makes 
 them much more tradable. I have done 
 witli our Neighbours beyond Sea, and 
 Ihould not without your command 
 iiave made fo long a digre/Iion in 
 this place , \t'hich ihould indeed have 
 been treated of before we come to fpeak 
 oj England, but that you were pleafedto 
 divert me from it before : However be- 
 ing placed near the Portraiture of our 
 own Country, it ferves better- (as con- 
 trana )uxi:a je po.^ta) to illuftrate it j 
 but I will not make this Deviation 
 longer, by Apologizing for it ; and lliall 
 therefore defire you to take notice. That 
 as in England by degrees Property came 
 to ihitt trom the few to the many, fo 
 
 the 
 
[ i?9 J 
 the Government is grown Iieavicr and 
 more uneafie both to Pruice and People, 
 the complaints more in Parliament, the 
 Laws more numerous, and much more 
 tedious and prolix , to meet with the 
 tricks and malice of men, which works 
 in a loofe Government ; for there was 
 no- need to make Afts verhofe, when the 
 great Perfons could prefently force the 
 Execution of them: for the Law of Ed- 
 ip^r^theFirft, for frequent Parliaments, 
 had no more words then A Varliament 
 Jha/I he holden every year , whereas our A6t 
 for a Triennial Parliament, in the time of 
 King Charles the Firft, contained feveral 
 flieets ofPaper, to provide againft a failer 
 in the Execution of that Law ; which if 
 the Power had remained in the Lords, 
 would have been needlefs : for fome ot 
 them, in cafe of intermiffion of Aflem-* 
 bling the Parhament, would have made 
 their Complaint and Addrefsto the King, 
 and have immediately removed the ob- 
 ftruftion, which in thofe days had been 
 the natural and eafie way : but now that 
 many of the Lords ( like the Bifliops 
 which the Popes make at Rome, in parti- 
 lus injideliim) are mcerJy grown Titu- 
 lar, 
 
C i6o ] 
 Jar, and purchafed for nothing but to 
 get their Wives place, it cannot be won- 
 dred at if the King flight their AddreiTes, 
 and the Court Parafites deride their Ho- 
 nourable undertakings for the fafety of 
 their Country. Now the Commons fuc- 
 cceding, as was faid, in the Property of 
 the Peers and Church (whofe Lands five 
 parts of fix have been alienated :, and 
 moflly is come into the fame hands with 
 thofe of the King and Peers) have inhe- 
 rited hkewife, according to the courfe 
 of nature, their Power ; But being kept 
 from it by the eftabhllied Government 
 (which not being changed by any law- 
 ful Ads of State) remains flill in being 
 formally, whereas virtually itisabolifh- 
 ed ; fo that for want of outward Orders 
 and Prpvifions, the People are kept from 
 the Exercife of that Power w^hich is fain 
 to them by the Law of Nature, and thofe 
 who cannot by that Law pretend to the 
 fliare they had, do yet enjoy it by ver- 
 tue of thut Right which is now ceafed, 
 as having been but the natural Effeft 
 of a Caufe that is no longer in being, and 
 you know fuhlata caufa tollitur. I can- 
 not fay that the greater part of the Peo- 
 ple 
 
[i6i] 
 
 pie do know this their condition, but 
 they find very plainly that they wane 
 Something which they ought to have ; 
 and this makes them lay often the blame 
 of their unfetlednefs upon wrong caufcs : 
 but however, are altogether unquiet and 
 reftlefs in the Intervals of Parliament : 
 and when the King pleafes to aflemble 
 one, fpend all their time in Complaints 
 of the Inexecution of the Law, of the 
 multiplication of an Infinity of Grievan- 
 ces, of Mif-fpending the Publick Moneys, 
 of the danger our Religion is in bypra- 
 ftifes to undermine it and the State, by 
 endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power, 
 and in queftioning great Officers of State, 
 as the Caufersand Promoters of all thefe 
 Abufes ; in fomuch, that every Parlia- 
 ment feems a perfeft State of War, 
 wherein the Commons are tugging 
 and contending for their Right,veryjuft- 
 ly and very honourably, yet v. iihout 
 coming to a Point ; So that the Court 
 fends them packing , and governs ftill 
 worle and worfe in the Vacancies, being 
 neceffitated thereunto by their defpair of 
 doing any good in Parliament ; and there- 
 fore are forced to ufe horrid Ihifts to fub- 
 
 M fift 
 

 [i6i] 
 
 fift without it, and to keep it ofT; with- 
 out ever confidering, that if thefe Coun 
 fellors underftood their Trade, they 
 might bring the Prince and People to fuch 
 an Agreement in part, as might repair 
 the broken and iliipwrack'd Government 
 of England ; and in this fecure the Peace, 
 Quiet and Profperity of the People, the 
 Greatnefs & Happinefs of the King,and be 
 themfelves not only out of prefent danger 
 (which no other courfe can exempt them 
 from) but be Renowned to all Pofterity. 
 
 iJohle Ven. I befeech you Sir , how 
 comes it to pafs, that neither the King, 
 nor any of his Counfellors could ever 
 come to find out the truth of what you 
 difcourfe? for I am fully convinced it is 
 as you fay. 
 
 Eng, Gent. I cannot refolve you that, 
 but this is certain they have never en- 
 deavoured a Cure, though polhbly they 
 might know the Difeaie, as fearing that 
 though the Effefts of a Remedy would 
 be, aswasfaid, very advantageous both 
 to King and People, and to themfelves ^ 
 yet polfibly, fuch a Reformation might 
 not confill with the Merchandize they 
 make of the Princes Favour, nor with 
 
 fuch 
 
fuch Bribes, Gratuities and Fees as they 
 ufually take for thedifpatch of allMat^ 
 ters before them. And therefore our 
 Counfellors have been fo far from fug- 
 gefting any fuch thing to their Mailer, 
 that tney have oppofed and qualhed all 
 Attempts of that kind, as they did the 
 worthy Propofals made by certain 
 Members of that Parliament in the 
 beginning of King James's Reign ; which 
 is yet called the Undertakmg Parliament. 
 Thefe Gentlemen confidermg what we 
 have been difcourfing of, viz. That our 
 old Government is at an end, had framed 
 certain Heads, which, if they had been 
 propofed by that Parliament to the King, 
 and by him confented to, would, in their 
 Opinion, have healed the Breach 5 and 
 that if the King would perform his part, 
 that Houfe ot Commons would under- 
 take for the Obedience of the People. 
 They did believe that if this fliould have 
 been moved in Parliament before the King 
 was acquainted with it, it would prove 
 Abortive : and therefore fent three of 
 their number to His Majefty ; Sir James 
 a Crofr , Grandfather or Father to the 
 . prtjfent Bifliop oi Hereford \ one Harlow 
 
 M % a Knight^ 
 
[164] 
 
 a Knight, whofe Chriftian Name I re- 
 member not, but was Anceflor to the 
 Honourable Family of that Name in He^ 
 refordjhire ; and Sir Henry Nevitl, who 
 had been AmbafTador from Queen Eliza" 
 heth to the French King. Thefe were to 
 open the matter at large to the King, and 
 to procure his leave that it might be pro- 
 pofed in Parliament : which, after a very- 
 long Audience and Debate, that wife 
 Prince confented to, with a promife of 
 Secrefie in the mean time, which they 
 humbly begged of His Majefty. How- 
 ever, this took Vent , and the Earl of 
 Northampton, of the Houfe of Howarcfy 
 who ruled the Roft in that time, having 
 knowledge of it, engaged Svc R,Wefton, 
 afterwards Lord Treafurer and Earl of 
 Portland^ to impeach thefe Undertakers 
 in Parliament before they could move 
 their Matters, which he did the very 
 fame day ; accompanying his Charge 
 ( which was endeavouring to alter the 
 eftabliflied Government oi England) with 
 fo eloquent an Inveftive, that if one of 
 them had not rifen, and made the Houfe 
 acquainted with the whole Series of the 
 
 Affair, 
 
Affair, they muft have been in danger of 
 being impeached by the Commons : bur 
 however it broke their defign, which 
 was all that Northampton and Wefton defi- 
 red, and prevented Poflerity from know- 
 ing any of the Particulars of this Refor- 
 mation ; for nothing being moved, no- 
 thing could remain upon the Journal. 
 So that you fee our Predece/Ibrs were not 
 ignorant altogether of our condition , 
 though the Troubles which have befallen 
 this poor Kingdom fince, have made it 
 much more apparent : for fmce the De- 
 termination ol: that Parliament, there has 
 not been one called, either in that King's 
 Reign, or his Son's, or fmce, that hath 
 not been diflblved abruptly ; whilfl the 
 main bufme(Ies,and thofe of moft concern 
 to the Publick were depending and unde- 
 cided. And although there hath happened 
 in this Interim a bloody War, which in 
 the Clofe of it, changed the whole Or- 
 der and Foundation ot the Polity of Eng- 
 land, and that it hath pleafed God to rc- 
 llore it again by His Majefly's happy Re- 
 turn. So that the old Government is 
 alive again ; yet it is very vifible that its 
 deadly Wound is not healed, but that we 
 
 M I are 
 
[i66] 
 are to this day tugging with the fame dif- 
 ficulties, managing tiie fame Debates in 
 Parliament, and giving the fame difgufls 
 to the Court, and iiopes to the Country, 
 V'hich our Anceftors did before the Year 
 J 640. whllft the King hath been forced 
 to apply the fame Remedy of DilTolution 
 to his two firft f arhaments that his Fa- 
 ther uled to his four firft, and King James 
 to his three laft, contrary to his own vi- 
 fible Intereft, and that of his People ; 
 and this for want of having Counfellors 
 about him of Abilities and Fntegrity e^ 
 nough to difcover to him the Difeafe of 
 his Government, and the Remedy .-which, 
 I hope, when we meet to Morrow Mor- 
 ning you will come prepared to enquire 
 into; for the Dodor fays, hcwilladvife 
 you to go take the Air this Afternoon in 
 your Coach. 
 
 NohkVen. I flialj think it very long 
 till the Morning come: But before you 
 go, pray give me leave to ask you fome- 
 thing ot your Civil War here ; I do not 
 mean the Kiftory of it (although the 
 World abroad is very much in the dark 
 as to all your Tranfaftions of that time 
 for ^Nmx. of a good one) but the Grounds 
 
 or 
 
f 1^7 J 
 Or Pretences of it, and how you fell into 
 a War againft your King. 
 
 Eng, Gent, As for our Hiftory, it will 
 not be forgotten ; one of thofe who was 
 in Employment from the Year 40. to 60, 
 hath written the Hiftory of thofe 20 
 Years, a Perfon of good Learning and 
 Elocution ; and though he be now dead, 
 yet his Executors are very unwilling to 
 publiili it fo foon, and to rub a Sore that 
 is not yet healed. But the Story is writ 
 with great Truth and Impartiality, al- 
 though the Author were engaged both in 
 Councils and Arms for the Parliaments 
 fide. But for the reft of your Demand, 
 you may pleafe to underftand, that our 
 Parliament never did, as they pretended, 
 make War againft the King ; for he by 
 Law can do no Wrong, and therefore 
 cannot be quarrelled with : The War 
 they declared was undertaken to refcue 
 the King's Perfon out of thofe Mens 
 hands who led him from his Parliament, 
 and made ufe of his Name to levy a War 
 againft them, 
 
 Nchle Ven, But docs your Government 
 permit, that in cafe of a difagreement be^ 
 tween the King and his Parliament, ei-. 
 
 M 4 ther 
 
[i68] 
 
 ther of them may raifc Arms againft the 
 other. 
 
 Eng, Gent, It is impoffible that any 
 Government can go further than to pro- 
 vide for its own Safety and Prefervation 
 whilfl: it is in Being, and therefore it can 
 never dired: what ihall be done when it 
 felf is at an end, there being this diffe- 
 rence between our Bodies Natural and 
 Politick ; that the firfl can make a Tefta- 
 ment to difpofe of things after its death, 
 but not the other. This is certain, that 
 where-ever any two Coordinate Powers 
 do differ, and there be no Power on 
 Earth to reconcile them otherwife, nor 
 any Umpire, they will, defa^to, fall to^ 
 getlier by the Ears. What can be done 
 in this Cafe, de jure ? Look into your 
 own Country-man Machiave/l, and into 
 Grotius, who in his Book, De jure Belli 
 ac Facis^ treated of fuch matters long be- 
 fore our Wars. As for the ancient Politi- 
 cians, they muft needs be filent in the 
 Point, as having no mixt Governments 
 amongft them ; and as for me, I will nqt 
 rell my felf in fo flippery a place. There 
 are great difputes about it in the Parlia- 
 ments Declarations before the War, and 
 
[169] 
 
 fomethingconfiderable in the King's An- 
 fwers to them ; which I fliall fpecifie im- 
 mediately, when I have fatisfied you how 
 our War begun ; which was in this man- 
 ner. The Long Parhament having pro- 
 cured from the King his Royal AlTent for 
 their Sitting till they were dillolved by 
 Aft, and having paid and fent out the 
 Scottifli Army, and disbanded our own, 
 went on in their Debates for the fetthng 
 and mending our Government, the King 
 being dilpleafed with them tor it, and 
 with himleif for putting it out of his 
 Power to diflblvethem, now their bufi- 
 nefs which tliey pretended for their Per- 
 petuation was quite finillied, takes an un- 
 fortunate Refolution to accufe five princi- 
 pal Men of the Commons Houfe, and 
 one of thePeers,of HighTreafon: which 
 he profecuted in a new unheard of way, 
 by coming with armed Men into the 
 Commons Houfe of Parhament, to de- 
 mand their Members ; butnothingbeing 
 done by reafon of the abfence of the five, 
 and Tumults of difcontented Citizens 
 flocking to White- Hall mdi Weflrnhjier^ 
 the King took that occafion to abfent him- 
 felf from hisParliament. Which induced the 
 
 Com- 
 
[ i7o] 
 Commons Houfe to fend Commiflioners 
 to Hampton Court to attend His Majefly 
 with a Remonllrance of the State of the 
 Kingdom, and an humble Requeft to re- 
 turn to his Parliament, fortheRedre/Iing 
 thofe Grievances which were fpecified in 
 that Remonftrance, But the King, other-, 
 wife Counfelled, goes to Wtndfor^ and* 
 thence Northwards, till he arrived at 
 Tork : where he fummons in the Militia^ 
 that is, the Trained Bands of the Coun- 
 ty ; and befides,all the Gentry, of which 
 there was a numerous Appearance. The 
 King addrefled himfelf to the latter with 
 Complaints againft a prevailing Party in 
 Parliament, which intended to take the 
 Crown from his Head ; that he was come 
 to them, his loving Subjefts, for Prote-* 
 ftion; and, in fhort, defired them to at 
 fift him with Moneys to defend himfelf 
 by Arms. Some of thefe Gentlemen pe- 
 titioned His Majefty to return to his Par- 
 liament, the reft went about the Debate 
 of the King's Demands ; who , in the 
 mean time, went to Hully to fecure the 
 Magazine there, but was denied Entrance 
 by a Gentleman whom the Houfe had 
 fcnt down to prevent the fei^ing it ; who 
 
 was 
 
[171] 
 was immediately declared a Traytor, and 
 the King fell to raifing of Forces : which 
 coming to the Knowledge of the Houfc, 
 they made this Vote, 1 hat the King^ fe- 
 ducedhy EvilCounfel, intended to levy If^ar 
 again]} his Parliament and People, to de» 
 ftroy the Fundamental Laws and Liberties 
 ^Engbnd, and to introduce an Arbitrary 
 Government^ &c. T his was the firll time 
 they named tlie King, and tlie la(t : For 
 in all their other i^a;)ers, and in their De- 
 claration to Arm for their Deience (which 
 did accompany this Vote) they name no- 
 thing bur MaUgnant Counfellor*^. The 
 King s Anfwer to thele Votes and this 
 Declaration, is that which 1 mentioned; 
 wherein HisMajeUy denies any inten- 
 tion of invading the Government, with 
 high Imprecations upon himfelfand Po- 
 fterity if it were otherwife : and owns 
 that they have Right to maintain their 
 Laws and Government. This is to be 
 feen in the Paper itfelf now extant ; and 
 this Gracious Prince never pretended (as 
 fome Divines have done for him) that his 
 Power came from God, and that his 5ub- 
 ^efts could not d ifpute it, nor ought he to 
 give any Account of his Aftions (though 
 
[172^ ] 
 
 he fliould enflave us aIl)to any but him.So 
 that our War did not begin upon a point of 
 Right,but upon a matter of Fad/or with- 1 
 out going to Lawyers or Cafuifts to be 
 refolved, thofe of the People, who be- 
 lieved that the King did intend to deftroy 
 our Liberties, joyned with the Parha- 
 ment, and thofe who were of opinion 
 that the prevaiUng party in Parhament 
 did intend to deftroy the King or de- ] 
 throne him, affifted vigoroufly his Ma- ; 
 jefty with their Lives and Fortunes. And j 
 the Queftion you were pleafed to ask , 
 never came, for both parties pretended 
 and beheved they were in the right, and 
 that they did fight for and defend the 
 Government: But I have wearied you 
 out. 
 
 Noi/e, Ven. No fure. Sir, but I am 
 infinitely obliged to you for the great care 
 you have taken and ftillhaveufed to in- 
 ftrudt me, and beg the continuance of it 
 for to morrow morning. I 
 
 Eng. Gent. I fiiall be fure to waite up- ' 
 on you at nine a Clock, but I fliall be- 
 feech both of you to bethink your fclves 
 what to offer, for I fhall come with a 
 defign to learn, not to teach, nor will I 
 
 pre^ 
 
 J 
 
c m \ 
 
 prefume In fuch a matter to talk all,as you 
 have made me do to day, for what I have 
 yet to fay in the point of Cure, is foHt- 
 tle,that it will look like the Moufe to the 
 Mountain of this days difcourfe. 
 
 Doit. It isfo in all Arts, the Corollary 
 is fliort, and in ours particularly. Thofe 
 who write of the feveralDifcafes incident 
 to humane bodies, muft make long Dif- 
 courfes of the Caufcs, Symptomes, Signs 
 and Prognofticks of fuch Difl:empers,but 
 when they come to treat of the Cure, it is 
 difpatched in a few Recipes. 
 
 Eng, Gent. Well, Sir, for this bout, I 
 humbly take my leave of you ; nay. Sir, 
 you are not in a condition to ufe ceremo* 
 
 Do^, Sir, I forbid you this door, pray 
 retire, to ftand here is worfe than to be 
 in the open air. 
 - Nolle Fen. I obey you both. 
 
 Do£t. I fliall wait on you in the Even- 
 ing. 
 
 The 
 
The THIRD DAY. 
 
 Nehle Fen, ^^ Entlemen, you arc vc- 
 VJ ry welcome; what you 
 are come bocn together. 
 
 Dod, I met this Gentleman at the 
 door .• But methinks we fit looking one 
 upon another, as if all of us were afraid 
 to fpeak. 
 
 Ertg. Gent. Do you think we have not 
 reafon in fuch a fubjed as this is? how can 
 any Man, without Hefitation, prefume 
 to be fo confident as to deliver his private 
 opinion in a point, upon which, for al- 
 moft xoo year (for fo long our Govern- 
 ment has been crazy) no Man has ven- 
 tered ; and when Parliaments have done 
 any thing towards it, there have been A- 
 nimofities and Breaches, and at length 
 Civil Wars > 
 
 JSfohk Fen. Our work today is, to en- 
 deavour to lliew how all thefe troubles 
 may be prevented for the future, by ta- 
 king away the Caufe of them, which is 
 the want of a good Government; and 
 therefore it will not be to much prefum- 
 
 ption 
 
[17^ 
 ption in you, as charity to declare your 
 felf fully in this matter. 
 
 Engn Gent. The Cure will follow na- 
 turally, if you are fatisfied in the Difeafe, 
 and in the Caufe of the Difeafe, for if you 
 agree that our Government is broken, 
 and that it is broken becaufe it was Found- 
 ed upon Property, and that Foundation 
 isnowihaken, It will be obvious, that 
 you mufl; either bring Property back to 
 your old Government, and give the King 
 and Lords their Lands again, or elfe you 
 mud bring the Government to the Pro- 
 perty as it now Hands. 
 
 Do^, I am very well fatisfied in your 
 Grounds, but becaufe this Fundamental 
 truth is little underflood amongft our 
 People, and that in allconvcrfations IMen 
 will be offering their opinions of what 
 the Parliament ough: to do at their Meet- 
 ing , it will not be amifs to examine fome 
 of thofe Expedients theypropofe, and to 
 fee whether fome or all of them may not 
 be efieftual towards the bringing us to 
 fome degree of fettlement , rather than 
 to venture upon fo great a change and 
 alteration as would be neceflary to mo- 
 del our Government anew. 
 
Eng. Gent. Sir, I believe there can bd 
 no Expedients propofed in Parliament 
 that will not take up as much time and 
 trouble, find as much difficulty in pafling 
 with the King and Lords, and feem as 
 great a change of Government, as the true 
 remedy would appear, at leaft I fpeak as 
 to what I have to propofe ; but however, 
 I approve your Method, and if you will 
 pleafe to propofe any of thofe things, I 
 ihall either willingly embrace them, or 
 endeavour to fliew reafon why they will 
 be of Uttle fruit in the fettling our 
 State. 
 
 Do^. I wilf reduce them to two Heads 
 (befides the making good Laws for keep- 
 ing out Arbitrary Power, which is al- 
 ways underftood) the hindrmg the 
 growth of Popery, and confequently the 
 providing againft a Popifli Succeflbr ; and 
 then the declaring the Duke of Mon- A 
 mouth\ Right to ths Crown, after it hath 
 been examined and agreed to in Parlia- 
 
 ment. 
 
 Eng, Gent. As for the making new 
 Laws, I hold it abfolutely needlefi, thofe 
 we have already againft Arbitrary Pow-' I 
 er being abundantly fufficient, if they 
 
 might 
 
[177 J 
 might be executed, but that being im- 
 poliible (^ I Ihall fliew hereafter) till 
 (bme change fliall be made, I fliall /><?/?- 
 po^e this point, and for the firft of youf 
 other two I ihall divide, and feparate the 
 confidcration of the growth of Popery 
 from that of the Succelfion. I am forfy 
 that in the profecution of this Argument, 
 I fliall be tbrced to fay fomething that 
 may not be very pleafing to this worthy 
 Gentleman , we being necellitated td 
 difcourfe with prejudice of that Religi- 
 on which he profefles, but it fliall be with 
 as little ill breeding as I can, and altoge- 
 ther without pafTion or inveftives. 
 
 Noi/e P^en, It would be very hard for 
 me to fufpeft any thing from you that 
 fliould be difobliging ; but pray. Sir, go 
 on to your Political difcourfe, for I am 
 hot fo ignorant my felf but to know that 
 the conlervation of the National Religi- 
 on (be it what it will) is elTential to the 
 well ordering a State, and though in our 
 City the Dodrinals are very different 
 from what are profeflTcd here, yet as to 
 the Government of the State, I believe 
 you know that the Pope or his Priefts 
 h;ive as little influence upon it, as your 
 
 N Cle^" 
 
[178] 
 
 Clergy have here, or in any part of the 
 World. ^ 
 
 Eng, Gent, I avow it fully. Sir, and 
 with the favour you give will proceed : It 
 cannot be denyed but that in former 
 times Popery has been very innocent 
 here to the Government, and that the 
 Clergy and the Pope were fo far from op- 
 pofing our Liberties, that they bothfided 
 with the Barons to get a Declaration of 
 them by means of Ma<ina Chart a : It is 
 true alfo, that if we were all Papifls, and 
 that our State were the fame, both as 
 to Property and Empire, as it was 400 
 years ago, there would be but one incon- 
 venience to have that Religion National 
 again in England, which is. That the 
 Clergy, quatenus fuch, had and will have 
 a fhare in the Soveraignty, and inferi- 
 our Courts in their own Power, called 
 Ecclefiaflical ; this is and ever will be a 
 Solecifme in Government, befides a ma- 
 nifeft contradidlion tathe words of Chrift 
 our Saviour, who tells us, his Kingdom 
 is not of this World ; and the truth is, if 
 you look into the Scriptures, you will 
 find. That the Apoftles did not reckon 
 that the Religion they planted fliould be 
 
 Nati- 
 
National in any Country , and there- 
 fore have given no precepts to the Magi- 
 Urate to meddle in Matters of Faith and 
 the Worfliip of God ; but Preach'd> That 
 Chriftians ihould yield them obedience 
 in all lawful things: There are many 
 pailages in Holy Writ which plainly de- 
 clare, that the true Believers and Saints 
 Ihould be but an handful , and fuch as 
 God had feparated, and as it were taken 
 out of the World, which would not have 
 been faid by them, if they had believed 
 that whole Nations and People Ihould 
 have been true Followers of Chrifl, and 
 of his Flock, for certainly none of them 
 are to be damn'd, and yet Chrift himfelf 
 tells us, that few are faved, and bids us 
 ftrive to get in at the itrait gate ; and 
 therefore I conceive it not to be imagina- 
 ble, that either Chrift or his Apoftles did 
 ever account that the true Religion fliould 
 be planted in the World by the framing 
 of Laws, Catechifms, or Creeds, by the 
 Soveraign Powers and Magiftrates, whe- 
 ther you call them Spiritual or Tempo- 
 ral, but that it fliould have a Progrefs 
 fuitable to its beginning, for it is viiible 
 that it had its Original from the Power 
 
 N 2, aiid 
 
[i8o] 
 
 and Spirit of God, and came in againft 
 the ftream, not only without a Numa 
 Pompilius, or a Pythagoras to plant and 
 eilablifli it by humane Conftitutions and 
 Authority, but had all the Laws of the 
 World to oppofe it, and all the bloody 
 Tyrants of that age to perfecute it, and 
 toinflidt exquifite torments on thePro- 
 feflbrsofit. In Nd'r^'s time (which was 
 very early) the Chriftians were offered a 
 Temple in Rome, and in what other Cities 
 they pleafed, to be built to Jefus Chrift, 
 and that the Romans Ihould receive him 
 into the number of their gods ; but our 
 Religion being then in its purity, this 
 was unanimoufly refufed, for that fuch a 
 God mufl: have no Companions, nor 
 needed no Temples, but muft be Wor- 
 ihipped in Spirit and Truth; the Succef- ] 
 fors to thefe good Chriftians were not fo : 
 fcrupuIous,for within fome Ages after ,the i 
 Priefts, to get Riches and Power, and the 
 Emperors to get and keep the Empire (for 
 by this time the Chriftians were grown 
 numerous and powerful) combined toge- 
 ther to fpoil our HolyReligion,to make it 
 fit for the Government of this World,& to 
 introduce into it all the Ceremonious fol- 
 lies 
 
[i8i] 
 lies and Superlliticns of the Heathen, and 
 which is worfe, the Power of Prieils,both 
 over the Perfons and Confciences oFMen. 
 I fliall fay no more of this, but refer you 
 to innumerable Authors who have treat- 
 ed of this Subjea.particularly to ^French 
 Minifter, who hath written a Book, En- 
 tituled, La Religion Catholique Apojlol'/quc 
 Roma'tne inflituee par Nttme Pompile^ and 
 to the incomparable Machiavel in his 
 Yoflhume Letter, Printed lately in our 
 Language, with the Tranflation of his 
 Works: But I have made a long digreili- 
 on, and to comeback again, Ihall only 
 defire you to take notice, when I fay that 
 anciently Popery was no inconvenience 
 in this Kingdom, I mean only Political- 
 ly, as the "Government then flood, and 
 do not fpeak at ail of the prejudice which 
 Mens Souls did and will ever recive from 
 the Belief of thofe impious Tenents, and 
 the want of having the True Gofpel of 
 Jefus Chrift preached unto them, but 
 living in perpetual Superflition and Ido- 
 latry : The confideration of thefe Mat- 
 ters is not fo proper to my nrefent pur- 
 pofe, being to Difcourfe only of Govern- 
 ment. Notwithflanding therefore, as I 
 
 N 3 faid 
 
faid before, that Popery might have fuit- 
 ed wdl enough with our old Conftitu^ 
 tion, yet astotheprefent Eflate, which 
 indines to Popularity, it would be whol- 
 ly as inconfiftent with it, and with the 
 Power of the Keys, and the Empire of 
 Priefts (efpecially where there is a For- 
 reign Jurifdidionin the cafe) as with the 
 Tyranny and Arbitrary Power of any 
 Prince in the World. I will add thus 
 much in Confirmation of the Dolor's AC- 
 fertion. That we ought to prevent the 
 Growth of Popery, fince it is now 
 grown a Dangerous Faftion here againft 
 the State. 
 
 Nol^/e Ven, How can that be, I be- 
 feechyou. Sir? 
 
 EngGentSvc^ will make you Judg of it 
 y our felf;I will fay nothing of thofe foolifli 
 Writings that have been put forth by Ma- 
 rtana^Emmanuel Sa.'mdi fome others.about 
 the lawfulnefs of deftroying Princes and 
 States, in cafe of Herefie, becaufe I know 
 all the confcientious and honefl Papifts 
 (of which I know there are great num- 
 bers in the World) do not only not hold, 
 but even abhor fuchcurfed Tenents, and 
 do believe, that when the Pope, by Ex- 
 
 com- 
 
[ iSj J 
 communication, hath cut off any Prince 
 from the Communion of the Church, 
 can go no further, nor ought to pretend 
 a Power to deprive him of his Crown,or 
 abfolve his Subjefts from their Oaths and 
 Obedience: But I fliali confine my felf 
 to the prefent condition of our . Papifts 
 here. You know how dangerous it is 
 for any Kingdom or State to have a confi- 
 derabie, wealthy, flourifliing party a- 
 mongft them, whofe intereft it is to de- 
 llroy the Polity and Government of the 
 Country where they hve, and therefore 
 if our Papifts prove this Party, you will 
 not wonder why this People are fo eager 
 todeprefsthem; this is our Cafe, for in 
 the beginning of Qiieen Elnakths rdgn, 
 there was an alteration of Religion in our 
 Country, which did fufficiently enrage 
 the Holy Father at Remcy to fee that this 
 good Cow would be Milked no longer. 
 He declares her an Heretick and a Ba- 
 ftard, (his Sanftity not having declared 
 null that inceftuous Marriage, which her 
 Father had contrafted before with his 
 Brothers Wife, and which that King had 
 .diffolved to Marry her Mother) and af- 
 terwards Excommunicated our Queen, 
 
 N 4 de- 
 
[184] 
 
 depriving her, as much as in him lay, 
 of the Kingdom ; fome of the Zealotsof 
 that Party (having a greater terrour for 
 thofe Thunder-bolts than I believe many 
 have now) began to Confpire againit 
 her; and Plots grew at length lo fre- 
 quent, and fo dangerous j that it was ne- 
 cellary (as the Parliaments then thought) 
 to fecure the Queen, by making fevere 
 Lawsagainft a People, who did not be- 
 lieve themfelves her Majefties Subjefts; 
 but on the contrary/ many of them 
 thought themfelves in Confcience obli- 
 ged to oppofe and deftroy her ; and al- 
 though that Excommunication , as alfo 
 the pretended doubtfulnefs of the Title, 
 both dyed with that renowned Queen, 
 yet a new defperate Confpiracy again ft 
 the King her Succeffor, and the whole 
 Parliament enfuing, not long after her 
 deceafe, thofe vigorous Laws have been 
 fo far from being repealed*, that very 
 many more, andiar feverer, have been 
 fmce made, and are yet in force. Now 
 thefc Laws make fo great a diftinftion 
 between Proteftants and Papifts, that 
 whereas the former are by our Govern- 
 ment and Laws, the frecft People in the 
 
 . World, 
 
World, the latter are little better than 
 flaves, are confined to fuch a diflance 
 from their Houfes, are not to come near 
 the Court, which being kept in the Ca- 
 pital City , moftly deprives them from 
 attending their necellary occafions, they 
 are to pay two third parts oi their tllates 
 annually to the i\ing, their Priefts are to 
 fuffer as Traitors, and they as Felons for 
 harbouring them ; in fine, one of us, if 
 he do not break the Municipal Laws tor 
 the good Government of the Country, 
 need not fear the King's Powder, whereas 
 their being what they are is a breach of 
 the Law, and does put them into the 
 Princes hands to ruine them when he 
 pleafes ; nay, he is bound by Oath to 
 do it, and when he does it not, is com- 
 plained againft by his People, and Par- 
 haments take it amifs. Now judg you, 
 Sir, whether itisnottheinteretVofthcfe 
 People to defire and endeavour a change 
 whiiefl; they remain under thefedifcou- 
 ragements, and whether tliey are not 
 like to joyn with the Prince ( vvliofe con- 
 nivance at the inexecution of tliofe 
 Laws is the only means and hope of 
 their prefervation) when-ever he ihail 
 :■:.. • under- 
 
[186] 
 undertake any thing for the increafe of 
 his own Power, and the depreffing his 
 Parhaments. 
 
 l^ohle Ven. What you lay is very un- 
 deniable, but when the Remedy is very 
 eafieand obvious, as well as very jufl and 
 honourable, which is the taking away 
 thofe cruel Laws, and if that were done 
 they would be one People with you, and 
 would have no neceflity, and by confe- 
 quence no defire to engreaten the King 
 againft the Intereft and Liberty of their 
 own Country. 
 
 Eng, Gent. You fpeak very well, and 
 oneof the Reafons amongft many which 
 I have, to defire a compofure of all our 
 troubles by a fettled Government, is, that 
 I may fee thefe People (who are very 
 confiderable, moft of them, for Eftates 
 Birth and Breeding) Uve quietly under 
 our good Laws, and increafe our Trade 
 and Wealth with their expences here at 
 home, whereas now the feverity of our 
 Laws againft them, makes them fpend 
 their Revenues abroad, and inrich other 
 Nations with the Stock of England'^ but 
 as long as the State here is fo unfettled 
 ^s it is, our Parliaments will never con- 
 
 fenc 
 
C i87 3 
 fent to countenance a Party, who by the 
 kaft Favour and Indulgence may make 
 themfelvesable to bring in their own Re- 
 ligion to be National.and fo ruine our Po- 
 lity and Liberties. 
 
 Nolle Ven. I wonder why you fliould 
 think that poflible ? 
 
 Eng. Gent, Firft, Sir, for the Reafon 
 we firft gave, which is the crazinefs of 
 our Pohty , there being nothing more 
 certain than that both in the Natural 
 and alfo the Pohtick Body any fmifter 
 accident that intervenes, during a very 
 Difeafed habit, may bring a dangerous al- 
 teration to the Patient. An Infurreftion in 
 a decayed Government,a thing otherwifc 
 very inconfiderable, has proved very fa- 
 tal, as I knew a flight flefli wound bring 
 a lufty Man to his Grave in our Wars, 
 for that he being extreamly infefted with 
 the French Dileafe could never procure 
 the Orifice to clofe ; fo although the de- 
 ligns both at home and abroad, for alter- 
 ing our Religion, would be very little 
 formidable to a well founded Govern- 
 ment, yet in fuch an one as we have 
 now, it will require all our care to obvi- 
 ate fuch Machinations. Another Reafon, 
 
 is 
 
[i88] 
 
 is the little Zeal that is left amongfl: the 
 ordinary Proteftants, which Zeal ufes to 
 be a great Inftrument of preferving the 
 Religion eflablifhed,as it did here inQ[ueen 
 Elizabeths time ; I will add the little 
 Credit the Church of England hath a- 
 mongft the People, moft Men being al- 
 moft as angry with that Popery which 
 is left amongft us (in Surplices, Copes, 
 Altars, Cringings, Bifliops Ecclefiaftical 
 Courts, and the whole Hierarchy, be- 
 fidesan Infinite number of Ufelefs, Idle, 
 Superftitious Ceremonies, and the Igno- 
 rance and Vitioufnefs of the Clergy in 
 general) as they are with thofe Dogma's 
 that are abolilhed : So that there is no 
 hopes that Popery can be kept our, but 
 by a Company of poor People called Fa- 
 naticks, who are driven into Corners as 
 the firll Chriftians were; and who only 
 in truth Conferve the Purity of Chrifti- 
 an Religion, as it was planted by Chrifh 
 and his Apoilles, and is contained in Scri- 
 pture. And this makes almofi; all fober 
 Men believe,that the National Clergy ^be- 
 fides all other good qualities have this too, 
 that they cannot hope to make their Hie- 
 rarchy fubfifl long againfl the Scriptures, 
 
 the 
 
the hatred of Mankind,and the Intereft of 
 this People, but by Introducing the Ro- 
 man ReUgion; and getting a Foreign 
 Head and Supporter, which fliall from 
 time to time brave and heftor the King 
 and Parhament in their favour and be- 
 half, which yet would be of little advan- 
 tage to them, if we had as firm and wife 
 a Government as you have at Venice. 
 Another Reafon, and the greateft, why 
 the Romijh Religion ought to be very wa- 
 rily provided againft at this time, is; That 
 the Lawful and Undoubted Heir to the 
 Crown, if his Majefty fliould die without 
 Legitimate Ifliie,is more than fufpefted to 
 Imbrace that Faith ; which (if ir Ihould 
 pleafe God to call the King, before there 
 be any Remedy applied to our Diftrafted 
 State)would give a great opportunity (by 
 the Power he would have in Intervals of 
 Parliament) either to Introduce immedi- 
 ately that Profefiion, with the help of our 
 Clergy, and other Englijh and Foreign 
 Aids, orelfe to makefo lair a way for it, 
 that a little time would perteft the work; 
 and this is the more formidable, for that 
 he is held to be a very Zealous and Bigot- 
 ted Romanijl ; and therefore may be fiip- 
 
 pofcd 
 
[ lyo ] 
 
 pofed to aa any thing to that end, al- 
 though it fliould maniteftly appear to be 
 contrary to his own Intereft and Quiet, 
 fo apt are thofe who give up their Faith 
 and the Condu£t of their Lives toPriells 
 (who to get to themfelves Empire, pro- 
 mife them the highelt Seats in Heaven; 
 if they will facrifice their Lives, For- 
 tunes, and Hopes, for the Exaltation of 
 their Holy Mother, and preventing the 
 Damnation of an innumerable company 
 of Souls which are not yet born) to be 
 led away with fuch Erroneous and wild 
 Fancies. Whereas Philip the Second of 
 Spaifi, theHoufeof Guife in France, and 
 other great Statefmen, have always made 
 their own greatnefs their firft Aim, and 
 ufed their Zeal as an Inftrument of that^ 
 And in (lead of being cozen d by Priells, 
 have cheated them, and made them en- 
 deavour to Preach them up to the Em- 
 pire of the World. So I have done with 
 the Growth of Popery, and muft con- 
 clude, that if thatlhould be ftopt in fuch 
 manner,that there could not be onePapifl 
 left in England, and yet our Polity left 
 in the fame diforder that now afflidsit, 
 we fhould not be one Scruple the better 
 
 for 
 
[191 3 
 for it, nor the more at quiet ; the Growth 
 and Danger of Popery not being the Caufe 
 of our prefent Diflemper, but the Effed 
 of it : But as a good and fetled Govern- 
 ment would not be at all the nearer for 
 the dellruftion of Popery, fo Popery and 
 all the Dangers and Inconveniences of it' 
 would not only be further off, but would 
 wholly vanifh at the fight of fuch a Re- 
 formation. And fo we begin at the 
 wrong end, when we begin with Re- 
 ligion before we heal our Breaches. I 
 will borrow one Similitude more, with 
 our Doftor's favour, from his Profeflion. 
 I knew once a Man given over by the 
 Phyfitians,of an incurable Cachex/a, which 
 they faid proceeded from the ill Quality 
 of the whole Mafs of Blood, from great 
 Aduftion, and from an ill habit ot the 
 whole Body. The Patient had very of- 
 ten painful Fits of the Chollick, which 
 they faid proceeded from the Iharpnefsof 
 the Humour which caufed the Difeafe $ 
 and, amongft the reft, had one Fit which 
 tormented him to that degree, that it 
 was not expefted he could out-live it ; 
 yet the Doctors delivered him from-it in 
 afmalltime: Notwithftanding, foon af- 
 ter 
 
[i9x] 
 
 ter ihc Man diecl of his fir ft Diftem|)en 
 Whefeas if their Art had arrived to iiave 
 cured that (which was the Caufe o£ the 
 other)the CholUck had vaoiflied of itielf, 
 and the Patient recoYered. I need make 
 no AppUcation , nor fliall need to fay 
 much of the Succelfion of the Crown 
 (which is my next Province) but this I 
 have faid ah^ady, That it is needlefs. to 
 make any Provifion againfta PopiiliSuc- 
 ce/lbr if you redlifie your Government ; 
 and if you do not, all the Care and Cir- 
 cumfpeftion you can ufe in that Particu- 
 lar, will be ufelefs, and of hone effeft, 
 and will but at laft (if it do not go ofFea- 
 fjly, and the next Heir fucceed peaceably, 
 as is moft likely, efpecially if the King 
 live till the People's Zeal and Mettle i& 
 over) end probably in a Civil War about 
 Title : and then the Perfon deprived may 
 come in with his Sword in his Hand, and 
 bring in upon the Point of it both the 
 Popilh Religion, and Arbitrary Power : 
 Which, though I believe he will not be 
 able to maintain long (for the Reafons 
 before alledged,) yet that may make this 
 Gerjeration miferable and unhappy. 
 
[193] 
 
 Dod. But Sir, would you have the Par- 
 liament do nothing, as things ftand, to 
 provide (at leaft, as much as in them Hes) 
 that whoever fucceeds be a good Prote- 
 ftant? 
 
 Eng. Gent. Yes, I think it is their du- 
 ty, in the firft place to offer to His Ma- 
 jefty the true Remedy ; and if they find 
 him averfe to that, then to purfue the 
 other which concerns the Succeffion, be- 
 caufe the People (who are their Princi- 
 pals, and give them their Power) do ex- 
 pert fomething extraordinary from them 
 at this time ;and the moft of thembcHeve 
 this laft the only prefent means to fave 
 them from Popery, which they judge(and 
 very juftly) will bring in with it a change 
 of Government. But then, I fuppofe, 
 they may be encouraged to propofe in the 
 firft place the true Cure; pot only be- 
 caufe that is infallible, as has been proved, 
 but likewife becaufe His Majefty in pro- 
 bability, willfooner confent to any rea- 
 fonable Demand towards the Reform- 
 ing of the Government, and to the fecu- 
 ring us that way, than to concurr to the 
 depriving his only Brother of the Crown^ 
 And poflibly this latter (as I faid before) 
 
 O may 
 
[ 194] 
 may be the only way the Parliament can 
 hope will prove effedual : For if ydu 
 pleafe to look but an Age back into our 
 Story, you will find that Henry the Eighth 
 did procure an Ad of Parliament, which 
 gave him power to difpofe of the Crown 
 by his laft Will and Teftament : and that 
 he did accordingly make his faid Will ; 
 and by \t devife the Succeffion to his Son 
 £:^H^^/-^ the Sixth, in the firft place, and 
 to the Heirs of his Body; and for want 
 of fuch, to his Daughter iW^ry, and to the 
 Heirs of her Body ; and for want of which 
 Heirs, to his Daughter EUzahetk, our 
 once Soveraign of Immortal andBlelfed 
 Memory, and the Heirs of her Body ,• 
 and for want of all fuch Iflue, to the right 
 Heirs of his Younger Sifter ,• who was, 
 before he made this Will , married to 
 Charles Brandon Duke oi Suffolk, and had 
 Iflue by him. By this Teftament he dit 
 inherited his elder Sifter, who was mar- 
 ried into Scotland ;\ and by that means 
 did, as much as in him lay, exclude His 
 Majefty ( who now, by God's Mercy, 
 Reigns over us) as alfo his Father and 
 Grandfather. And to make the Cafe 
 ftronger, there pafled an Ad long after. 
 
 in 
 
in the Reign of Queen FJizaleth^ That it 
 Ihquld be Treafon during that Queen*s 
 TlHl^^ and a Premunire afterwards, to af 
 iftrc, that the Imperial Crown of England 
 ihanld not be difpofed of by Aft of Parha- 
 rrnent : Yet after the Deceafe of that 
 Queen, there was no confiderable Oppo- 
 ■r. fition made to the peaceable Reception 
 and Recognition of King James of happy 
 'Memory, And thofe who did make a 
 little ftir about the other Title, as the 
 Lord Colham, Sir Walter Rawleigh, and 
 a few others, were apprehended and con- 
 demned according to Law. And, not- 
 withftanding that, fmce, in the Reign of 
 King Charles the Firft, there was a bloody 
 Civil War, in which Men's Minds were 
 exafperated at a high rate; yet in all the 
 Courfe of it, the Original Want of Title 
 was never objeded againft His late Maje- 
 lly. I do not urge this to aver that the 
 Parliament, with the King's Confcnt, can- 
 not do lawfully this, or any other great 
 Matter: whicn would be an incurring 
 the Penalty of that Law, and aSoIIecifm 
 in the Politicks : But to Ihcw that when 
 thePafTionsof Men are quieted, and the 
 Reafons other than they were, it happens 
 
 O z otten- 
 
11961 
 
 often ttmes that thofe Afus which concern 
 the Succe/Iion fall to the Ground of them- 
 felves, and that even without the Sword, 
 which in this Cafe was never adoperated. 
 And that therefore this Remedy in bm 
 Cafe may be likely never to take place, if 
 it pleafe God the King live till this Nation 
 be under other kind of Circumftances. • 
 Docl. Sir, you fay very well : but it 
 feems to me, that the laft Parliament 
 was in fome kind of Fault, if this Le true 
 that you fay ; for I remember that my 
 Lord Chancellor did once, during their 
 Sitting , in His Majefty's Name offer 
 them to fecure their Religion and Liber- 
 ties any way they could advife of, fo 
 tlzey w^ould let alone medling with the 
 Succeffion, and invited them to make 
 any Prcpofals they thought nece/Tary to 
 that end. 
 
 . Eng,Gent, H'lnc illce lachrtmce. If this* 
 had been all, we might have been happy 
 at this time ; but this Gracious Offer was 
 Inlimwe, accompanied with fuch Con- 
 ditions that made the Parliament conje- 
 ilure that it was only to perplex and di- 
 vide them ; and did look upon it as an 
 Invention of feme mw Roman Coun- 
 
 lellors 
 
feilors (and thofe too, pofTibly, influenced 
 by the French) to make them embrace 
 the Shaddow for the Subfiance;and fatif- 
 fying themfelves with this Appearance, to 
 do their ordinary Work of giving Money, 
 and be gone, and leave the Bufinefs of 
 the Kingdom as they found it* For it 
 waspropofed, that whatfoever Security 
 we were to receive Hiould be both Condi- 
 tional and Reverfionable : That is, Firft, 
 We Ihould not be put into PolTeflion of 
 this new Charter(be it what it will)till af- 
 ter the death of HisMajefty who now is; 
 whereas fuch a Provifionisdefirable, and 
 indeed neceflary for us for this only rea- 
 fon, that when that unfortunate Hour 
 comes, we might not be, in that Confu- 
 fion, unprovided of a Calm, Serled and 
 Orderly, as well as a Legal Way to keep 
 out Popery. Whereas otherwife, if w^ 
 be to take Pofleflion in that Minute, it 
 mud either mifcarry, or be gotten by a 
 War ; if it be true thatPofleflion be Nine 
 Points of the Law in other Cafes, it is 
 in this the whole Ten r and I Ihould be 
 very unwilling, in fuch a Diflradion, 
 to have no Sanftuary to fly to, but a 
 peice of Parchment kept in the Pells ; and 
 
 O3 to 
 
to have this too, as well as all other Ad-^"*^ 
 vantages, in the Power and Poflellion of^ 
 him in whofe prejudice it was made : thiis??^ 
 had been almoft as good an Expedient to "^ 
 keep out Popery, as the Bill which was 
 thrown out that Parliament ; which pro- 
 vided, that in the Reign of a King that 
 Ihould be a Papift, the Bilhops IhoulJ 
 chufe one another upon Vacancies. Thofe 
 CounfcUors who put my Lord Chancel- 
 lor upon this Propofal, were either very 
 (lender Politicians thcmfclves, or elfc 
 thought the Parliament fo. If Ma^na 
 Chart a ^r\6. The Petition of Right hoid not 
 been to take place till after the Deceafe 
 of thofe Princes who confirmed them, 
 neither liad the Barons flied their Blood 
 to fo good purpofe, nor the Members of 
 the Parliament in Tertio Caroli, deferved 
 fo Glorious an Imprifon men t after it was 
 ended. The other Condition in x\xisx^^ 
 nowned Propofal is. That all Provifion 
 and Security which is given us to preferve 
 our Religion , Ihall ceafe immediately^, 
 when-evcr the Prince fhall take a certain 
 Oath to be penned for that purpofe \ and 
 I leave it to all thinking Men to deter- 
 mine what that will avail us, when we 
 
 fliall 
 
fhsll have a King of that Profeflion over 
 us, who Ihall not havefo much Zeal for 
 his Rehgion, as he who is now the next 
 Succelfor hatii ; but ihall pofTibly prefer 
 his Ambition, and his delire to get out 
 of Waixhliip, before the Scruples of his 
 Confedbr ^ and yet may afterwards, by 
 getting Abfolution for, and Difpenfation 
 irom liich Oaths and Compliance, em-^ 
 ploy the Power he gets himfelf, and the 
 .Security he deprives us of, to introduce 
 violently what Worlhip and Faith he 
 pleafes. This Gracious Offer had the fa- 
 tallity todifguft one ofthcbeft Parlia-' 
 ments that ever Sate, and the moll: Loyal ; 
 fo that laying it afide, they fell upon the 
 Succeilion, the only thing they had then 
 left, and were foon after Diflblved, leav- 
 ing tlie Kingdom in a more diftrafted 
 Condition than they found it ; and this 
 can no way be compofed,but by mending 
 the Polity. So that whoever is King can- 
 not(be he never fo inclined to it)introduce 
 Popery, or deftroy whatever Religion 
 fliall be eftabliflied : as you fee in the Ex- 
 ample of the Dutchy oi Hanoaery whofe 
 Prince, fome fourteen Years iince, was 
 perverted to the /?t?w^4« ChUrch, went to 
 
 O 4 Rome 
 
[lOo] 
 
 /?^»^^ to abjure Herefie (as they call the 
 truth; rcturn'd home,where he lived and 
 Governed as he did before, without the 
 leaft Animofity of his Subjeds for his 
 Change, or any endeavour of his to In- 
 troduce any in his Government or Peo- 
 ple, and dying this laft Spring, left the 
 Peaceable and undifturbed Rule of his 
 Subjefts to the next Succeflbur, his Brb^ 
 ther the Bifhop diOfnaburg, v^\\o is a Pro- 
 teflant, and this becaufe the Polity of 
 that Dukedom has been conferved entire 
 for many years, and is upon a right Bafis ; 
 and it our Cafe werefo, we fhould not 
 only be out of danger to have our Reli^ 
 gion altered (as I faid before) whoever is 
 King, but fliould in other things be in a 
 happy and flouriiliing condition; but I 
 have made a long and tedious digrellion 
 to anfwer your demands : Now 'tis time 
 you ailjft me to find the Natural Cure of 
 all our Mifchiefs. 
 
 Dott. Stay, Sir, I confefs my felf to 
 be wonderfully Edified with your dif- 
 courfe hitherto, but you have faid no- 
 thing yet of the Duke of Monmouth. 
 
 Eng. Gent. I do not think you defire 
 it, though you were pleafed to mention 
 
 fuel] 
 
[101 ] 
 
 focti a thing, for I fuppofe you cannot 
 think it polfible , that this Parliament 
 (which is now fpeedily to meet by His 
 Majefties Gracious Proclamation) can e- 
 ver fuffer fuch a thing to be fo much as 
 Debated amongft them. 
 
 Dod. Sir, you have no reafon to take 
 that for granted, when you fee what 
 Books are Printed, what great and Ho- 
 nourabki l^erfons frequent him in private, 
 and countenance him in publick; what 
 flioals of the middle fort of People have 
 in his Progrefs this Summer met him 
 before he came into any great Town, and 
 what Acclamations and Bon-fires have 
 ibeen made in places where he lodged.- 
 £ Eng, Gent, Thefe things I muft con- 
 V fefs. Slew how great a Diftemper the Peo- 
 ple are in, and the great reafon we have 
 to pray God of his Mercy to put an end 
 ^ to it by a happy Agreement in Parlia-» 
 ment. But certainly this proceeds only 
 from the hatred they have to the next 
 Succeflbur and his Religion, and from the 
 companion they have to the Duke oiMon- 
 mouth (who as they fuppofe, hathfufferr 
 ^pA banifliment and dif favour at Court, at 
 iibis Inftance) and not from any hopes or 
 
[ XOl ] 
 
 expcarations that the Parliament will ? 
 countenance any pretence that can be.,, 
 made in his behalf to the Succeflion. } 
 
 Don. It may be when we h^v^ dif-^ 
 courled of it, I iTiall be of your mind, 
 (as indeed I am enclii>ed already) But 
 yet nothing in War is more dangerous 
 than to contemn an Enemy; fo in this 
 Argumentation that we ufe to fecure our 
 Liberties, we mufli leave nothing unan- 
 fwered that may fland in the way of that, 
 efpecially the Duke oi Monmouth's Claim,' 
 which is pretended to confirm andforti- 
 fie them, for (fay fome Men) ifyoufet 
 him up, he will prefently pafs all Bills 
 that ihall concern the Safety and Intereft 
 of the People; Andfowe fliall beatreft 
 forever. r' 
 
 Eng. Gent. Well, I fee I muft be more 
 tedious than I intended ; Firft then, the 
 reafoning of thefe men you fpeak of, does 
 m my apprehenfion , fuppofe a thing I 
 cannot mention without horrour, which 
 is. That this Perfon ihould be admitted 
 immediately to the Pofleilion of the 
 Crown to do all thefe fine Matters; for 
 otherwife, if he muft ftiy till the Death 
 of our Soveraiga who now Reigns (which 
 
 I hope 
 
I Hope tfna pray will be many years 
 poffibly thefe delicate Bills may never 
 pafs, nor he find hereafter the People in 
 fo good a humour to admit him to the 
 Reverfion. which if it could be obtamd 
 (as I think itimpoflible Politically) yet 
 the PofleHion muft be kept by a fland- 
 ineArmy, and the next Succeliour can- 
 not have a better Game to play, nor a 
 better Adverfary to deal vyith than one 
 who leaps in over the Heads ot almolt a l 
 the Protellant Princes Families abroad 
 befidesfome Papitts who are greater ; and 
 when we have been harrailed witli Wars, 
 and the miferies that accompany it fomc 
 tew years, you flwU have all thefe fine 
 People, who now run after him , very 
 weary of their new Prince ; I v\ould not 
 fay any thing to difparage a Perfon fo 
 highly born and of fo early merit; but this 
 I may fay, That if a Lawful Title Ihould 
 be fet on foot in his favour, and a thou- 
 fond Dutch Hods, and fuch like, Ihould 
 fwear a Marriage, yet no fobcr Man.that 
 is not blinded with prejudice will believe. 
 That our King (whom none can deny to 
 have an excellent underftanding) would 
 ever Marry a Woman fo much his Infe- 
 
 riour 
 
[ i04] . .^, 
 
 riour asthis great Perfons Mother was^'^ 
 and this at a time when his Affairs were 
 very low, and lie had no vifible or ra^ 
 tional hopes to be reftored to the Pof- 
 fe/Tion of his Kingdoms but by an ailift- 
 ance which might have been afforded 
 him by fome great Foreign Alliance. 
 Well, but to leave all this, dothefeMen 
 pretend that the Duke of Monmouth Ihall 
 be declared Succeflbur to the Crown in 
 Parliament, with the King's Concurrence 
 or without it; if without it, you muft 
 make a War for it, and I am fure that no 
 Caufe can be ftated upon fuch a point, 
 that will not make the Aflertors and Un- 
 dertakers of it be condemned by all the 
 Politicians and Moralifls of the Worlds 
 and by the Cafuifts of all Religions, and 
 fo by confequence, it is like to be a very 
 unfuccefsful War. If you would have 
 this dcclar'd with the King's Confent, 
 either you fuppofe the Royal Aflent to 
 be given, when the King has his liberty 
 either ro grant it , or not grant it ; to 
 Diflolve the Parliament, or not Diflblve 
 it, without ruine or prejudice to his Af- 
 fairs .• If in the firft Cafe, it is plain he 
 will not grant it, becaufe he cannot do 
 
 it 
 
it without confefling his Marriage to that 
 Dukc^s Mother, which ^he hath already 
 declared again ft in a very folemn man- 
 iier,and caufed it to be Regiftred in Chan- 
 cery ; and which not only no good Sub- 
 ject can chufe but believe, but which 
 cannot be doubted by any rational per- 
 Ibn ; for it would be a very unnatural, 
 and indeed a thing unheard of, that a Fa- 
 ther who had a Son in Lawful Matrimo- 
 ny, and who was grown to perfedtion, 
 and had fignalized himfelf in the Wars, 
 and who was ever entirely beloved by 
 him, fliould difinherit him by fo folemn 
 an afleveration (which muft be afalfeone 
 too) to caufe his Brother to fucceed in 
 his room. And whereas it is pretended 
 by fome, that His Majeflies danger from 
 his Brothers Counfcls and Deligns may 
 draw from him fomething of this; befide 
 that they do not much Complement the 
 King in this , it is clear, his Brother is 
 not fo Popular, but that he may fecure 
 him when he pleales, without hazard, if 
 there were any ground for fuch an ap- 
 prehenfionj But we muft in the next 
 place Tuppofe that the King's Affairs were 
 in fuch a pofture, that he could deny 
 
 'Uil^<^ -> l-j^ 
 
 V 
 
[ ^o6 ] 
 
 the Parliament nothing without Mrer^ 
 great mifchief^and inconvenience to him- 
 lelf and the Kingdom; then I fay, I doubt 
 nor, but the Wifdom of the ParJiametYt 
 will find out divers Demands and Re- 
 quefts to make to His Majefty of great- 
 er benefit, and more neceflary for the 
 good of his People than this would be; 
 which draws after it not only a prefenit 
 unfetlednefs, but the probable hazard of 
 Mifery and Devaftation for many years 
 to come, as has been proved. So that 
 on the one fide the Parliament could not 
 make a more unjuftifiable War than upon 
 this Account, fo they could not be Diflbl- 
 ved upon any occafion wherein the People 
 would not lliew lefs difcontent and re- 
 fentmcnt, and for which the Courtiers 
 would not hope to have a better pretext, 
 to ftrive in the next Choice to make their 
 Arts and Endeavours more fuccefsful in 
 the Election of Members more fuitable 
 to their Defigns for the continuance of 
 their prefent mif government ; For if 
 this Parliament do mif-fpend the Peoples 
 Mettle, which is now up, in driving that 
 Nail which cannot go, they mult look 
 to have it cool, and fo the Ship of this 
 
 Com- 
 
[ 207 ] 
 
 Commonwealth , which if they pleafe 
 may be now in a fair way of En- 
 tcring into a Safe Harbour, will be dri- 
 ven to Sea again in a Storm, and mud 
 hope for, and expeft another favourable 
 Wind to fave them ; and God knows 
 when that may come. 
 ie Nohk Fen. Well, Sir, your Reafon- 
 ingin this point has extreamly fatisficd 
 me ; and the Doftor, I fuppofe, was fo 
 before as he averred, therefore pray let 
 us go on where we left. 
 _ Eng. Gent, I cannot take fo much up- 
 xm me as to be Didator in the Method 
 of our Cure, fince either of you is a 
 thoufand times better qualified for fuch 
 an Office, and therefore Ihall henceforth 
 dcfire to be an Auditor. 
 
 DoB, Pray, Sir, let us not fpend time 
 in Complements, but be pleafed to pro- 
 ceed in this bufmefs, and we doubt not 
 but as you liave hitherto wonderfully 
 delighted us, fo you will gratifie us in 
 concluding it. 
 
 Eng. Gent. I fee I muft obey you, but 
 pray help me, and tell me in the firft 
 place, whether you do not both believe, 
 that as the c^uja caup,rnm of all our Di- 
 
 ftrafti- 
 
ftra<Stions is (as has beeil proved) the 
 breach of our Government ; (o that the 
 immediate Caufes are two: Firft^ The 
 great diflruft on both fides between the 
 King and his People and ParUament; the 
 firft fearing that his Power will be fo let 
 fened by degrees, that at length it will 
 not be able to keep the Crown upon his 
 head : And the latter feeing all things in 
 diforder, and that the LaWs are not exe- 
 cuted ( which is the fecond of the two 
 Caufes) fear the King intends to change 
 the Government, and be Arbitrary. 
 
 Nolle Ven. I am a Stranger, but 
 (though I never refledtcd fo much upon 
 the Original Caufe, as I have done fince I 
 heard you difcourfe of it) yet I ever 
 thought that thofe two were the Caufes 
 of the Unquietnefs of this Kingdom: I 
 mean the Jealoufie between the King and 
 his People, and the Inexecution of the 
 great Laws of Calling Parliaments An- 
 nually, and letting them fit to difpatch 
 their Affairs , I underftand this in the 
 time of His Majefties Grand-Fathcr, and 
 Father, more than in His own Reign. 
 
[2.09] 
 
 P^^Hg.Ge»t. Then whoever can abfolute- 
 If'hythefQ two Caufcs afleep for ever, 
 will arrive to a perfeft Cure ; which I 
 Conceive no way of doing, but that the 
 Kiftg have a great deal more Power or a 
 great deal lels : And you know that what 
 goes out of the King muft go into the 
 People, and (o vice verfa: Inlomuchthat 
 the People miift have a great deal more 
 Power, or a great deal lels : Now it is no 
 queflion, but either of thefe two, would 
 rather encreafe their Power than dimi- 
 nifli it ; fo that if this cannot be made up 
 by the Wifdom of this Age, we may fee 
 in the next, that both the King will en- 
 deavour to bealtogether without a Parlia- 
 ment, and the Parliament to be without 
 a King. J 
 
 Dod. Ibegintofmell, thatyouwould 
 benibbUngat the pretence which fome 
 had before His Majeflies Reftauration of 
 a Commonwealth or Democracy, 
 
 Eng. Cent, No, I abhor the thoughts 
 of wilhing, much lefs endeavouring any 
 fuch thing, during thefe Circumftances 
 we are now in; Thar is, under Oaths of 
 Obedience to a Lawful King And truly 
 if any Themiflocles Ihould make to me 
 
 P fucJ> 
 
[xio] 
 
 fuch a Propofal, I iliould give the fame 
 Judgment concerning it, that Arift'ides 
 did in fuch a Cafe. The Story is lliort; 
 After the War between the Greeks and the 
 Terfians was ended, and Xerxes driven 
 out of Greece, the whole Fleet of the (j^<f- 
 cian Confederates (except that of Athens 
 which Was gone home) lay in a great Ar- 
 fenal (fuch as were then in ufe) upon the 
 Coart o{ Attica \ duringtheir abode there, 
 Jhemiflocles harrangues one day the Peo- 
 ple of ^^/^d-/?! (as was then the Cuflome) 
 and tells them, that he had a defign in 
 his head, which would be of Infinite pro- 
 fit and advantage to the Commonwealth; 
 But that it could not be executed with- 
 out the Order and Authority of them, 
 and that it did likewife require fecrefie, 
 and if it were declared there in the Mar- 
 ket place, where Strangers as well as Ci- 
 tizens might beprefent, it could not be 
 concealed, and therefore propofed it to 
 their confideration what fliould be done 
 in it, it was at length concluded that The- 
 mtjlocles (hould propofe it to Ar'ifl ides, 2^x6, 
 if he did next morning acquaint the Peo- 
 ple that he gave his approbation to it, it 
 ihould be proceeded in : Themiftocles in- 
 forms 
 
[2II] 
 
 forms him that the whole Fleet of their 
 
 Confederates in the War againil: the Me^es 
 
 had betaken themfelves to the great Ar- 
 
 fenal upon their Coaft, where they might 
 
 be eafily fired, and then the Athenians 
 
 would remain abfolute Mailers of the 
 
 Sea, and fo give Law to all Greece; when 
 
 Artfl'tdes came the next day to deliver his 
 
 Judgment to the People, he told them 
 
 that the bufinefs propofed by Themiflt^ 
 
 cles, was indeed very advantagious, and 
 
 profitable to the Athenians ; But withal, 
 
 the moll Wicked and Villanous Attempt 
 
 that ever was undertaken ; upon which 
 
 it was wholly laid afide- And the fame 
 
 Judgment do I give, Doitory of your De- 
 
 mocracy at this time. But to return to the 
 
 place where I was, I do believe that this 
 
 difference may eafily be terminated very 
 
 fairly, and that our Houfe need not be 
 
 pulled down, and anew one built; but 
 
 may be very eafily repaired, fo that it 
 
 may lafl many hundred years. 
 
 Nolle, Ven. I begin to perceive that 
 you aim at this. That the King mull: give 
 the People more Power, as Henry the 
 Third, and King John did, or the Parlia- 
 ment mull: give the King more, as you 
 
 P % faid 
 
[XI2] 
 
 faid they did ia France in the time of 
 Lewis the Eleventh, or elfe that it will 
 come in time to a War again. 
 
 Eng, Gent, You may pleafe to know, 
 that in all times hitherto, the Parliament 
 never demanded any thing of the King, 
 wherein the Interell and Government of 
 the Kingdom was concerned (excepting 
 Afts of Pardon) but they founded their 
 demands upon their Right, not only be- 
 caufc it might feem unreafonable for them 
 to beearneil with him to give them that 
 which was his own, but alfo becaufe they 
 cannot chufe but know, that all Powers 
 which are Fundamentally and Lawfully 
 in the Crown, were placed there upon 
 the firft Inflitutionof our Government; 
 to capacitate the Prince to Govern and 
 Prote£t his People : So that for the Par- 
 liament to feek to take from him fuch 
 Authority, were to be felo deje^ as we 
 call a felf-Homicide ; but as in fome Di- 
 flempers of the Body the Head luflers as 
 well as the Inferiour parts, fo that it is 
 not pallible for it, to order, direft and 
 provide for the whole Body as its Office 
 requires, fmce the Wifdom and Power 
 which is placed there, is given by God 
 
 to 
 
to that end ; In which Cafe, though the 
 Diuemper of the Body may begin irom 
 the Difeafe of fome other part, or from 
 the mafs of Blood, or putrifaftion of other 
 Humours, yet fince that noble part is fo 
 affeded by it, that Reafon and Difcourfe 
 fails, therefore to reflore this again. Re- 
 medies mufl be apply'd to, and pollibly 
 Humours or Vapours drawn from the 
 Head it felf, that fo it maybe able to 
 Govern and Reign over the Body as it 
 did before, or elfe the whole Man, like 
 a Slave, mufl: be ruled and guided ah 
 extrinjeco^ that is by fome iveeper : So it 
 is now with us, in our Politick Difeafe, 
 ' wheregranting (if you pleafe) that the 
 Dillemper does not proceed from the 
 Head, but the Corruption of other parts, 
 yet in the Cure, Applications mull be 
 made to the Head as well as to the [Mem- 
 bers, if we mean poor E?igiarid fl^all re- 
 cover its former perfed he^^lth, and there- 
 fore it will be found, perhaps, Effentiai 
 to our Being, to ask fometiimg (in the 
 condition we now are) to which the King 
 as yet may have a Right ; and which ex- 
 cept he pleafe to part with, xb^Flenome- 
 na of Government cannot befalvedj That 
 
 P 3 is. 
 
[214] 
 
 is, our Laws cannot be executed ; nor 
 Magna Charta it felf made prafticable ; 
 and fo both Prince and People, that is, 
 the PoUty of England muft die of this 
 Difeafe, or by this Delirium mufl: be Go- 
 verned, ah extrinfecOy and fall to the Lot 
 of fome Foreign Power. 
 
 l^ohle Ven, But, Sir, flnce the bufi- 
 nefs is come to this Dilemma^ why may 
 not the King ask more Power ot the Par- 
 liament as well as they of him > 
 
 Eng. Gent, No queftion but our pre- 
 fent Counfellours and Courtiers would 
 be nibbhng at that bait again, if they had 
 another Parliament that would take Pen- 
 lions for their Votes; But in one that is 
 come frelh from the People, and under- 
 hand their oence and Grievances very 
 welK I hardly believe they will attempt 
 it, for both Council and Parliament muft 
 needs know by this time-a-day, thatthe 
 Caufc of all our Diltradions coming (as 
 has been faid an hundred times) from the 
 King s having a greater Power already 
 than the condition of Property at this 
 prefent can admit , ♦ without ConfuHon 
 and Diforder ; It is not like to mend Mat- 
 ters for thepi to give him more, except 
 
 they 
 
they will deliver up to him at the fame 
 inftant their PofTe/Tions, and Right to 
 their Lands, and become Naturally and 
 Politically his Slaves. 
 
 Noble Ven. Since there mud be a vo- 
 luntary parting with Power, I fear your 
 Cure will prove long and incffedual,and 
 we Reconcilers fliall, I fear, prove Jike 
 our devout Cappucbin at Venice ; this poor 
 Mans name was Fra, Barnard'mo da Vdine, 
 and was efleemed a very holy Man, as 
 well as an excellent Preacher, infomuch 
 that he was appointed to Preach the Lent 
 Sermons in one of our principal Chur- 
 ches, which he performed at the begm- 
 ing with fo much Eloquence, and Ap- 
 plaufe, that the Church was daily croud- 
 ed three hours before the Sermon was to 
 begin; the efteeni and veneration this 
 poor Fryar was in, elevated his Spirit a 
 little too high to be contained within 
 the hounds of Reafon; but before his De- 
 //r/^;>^ was perceived, he told his Audito- 
 ry one day, that the true Devotion of 
 that People, and the care they had to 
 come to hear his words Preached , had 
 been lo acceptable to God and to the Vir- 
 gine, that they had vouchfafed to Infpirc 
 
 P 4 him 
 
[116] 
 
 him with the knowledge of an Expedient, 
 which he did not doubt, but would make 
 Men happy & jufl: even in thisLife,5: that 
 the Flelh mould no longer luftagainll the 
 Spirit ; but that he would not acquaint 
 them with it at that prefent, becaufe 
 fomethingwas to be done on their parts 
 to make them capable of this great Blef- 
 fing, which was to pray zealoufly for a 
 happy Succefs upon his Endeavours, and 
 to Faft, and to vifit the Churches to that 
 end, therefore he defired them to come 
 the Wednefday foHowing to be made ac- 
 quainted with this blefled Expedient, 
 You may Imagine how defirous our Peo- 
 ple wxre, to hear fomething more of this 
 Fifth-Monarchy ; I w^ill fhorten my Sto- 
 ry, and tell you nothing of what croud- 
 ing there was all night, and what quar- 
 relling for places in the Church ; nor with 
 what difficulty x\\^Saffi, who werefent 
 by the Magiftratc to keep the Peace,and 
 to make way for the Preacher to get into 
 the Pulpit, did both ; But up he got, and 
 after a long preamble of defiring more 
 Prayers, and Addreiling himfelf to our 
 Senate to Mediate with the Pope, that a 
 week might be fet apart for a Jubilee and 
 ^' "' Failing 
 
FaAlng three days all over the Chriftlr 
 an World, to ftorm Heaven with Mafles, 
 Prayers , Fading and Ahnes to profper 
 his Defigns ; he began to open the Mat- 
 ter, that thcCaufeof all the Wickednefs 
 and Sin, and by Confequcnce of all the 
 Miferies and Amidion which is in the 
 World, arifing from the enmity which 
 is between God and theDevil> by which 
 means God was often crofs'd in his In- 
 tentions of good to Mankind here, and 
 hereatter, the Devil by his temptations 
 making us uncapable of the Mercy and 
 Favour of our Creator, therefore he had 
 a Defign (with the helps before mention- 
 ed) to mediate with Ahnighty God,That 
 he would pardon the Devil, and receive 
 him into his Favour again after fo long a 
 rime oi Eaniihnient and Imprifonment, 
 and nor to take all his Power from him, 
 but to leave him fo much as might do 
 good to Man, and not hurt ; which he 
 doubted not but he w^ould imploy that 
 way, after fuch reconciliation was made, 
 which his Faith would not let him que- 
 llion. You may judge what thenuriie- 
 rous Auditory thought of this ; lean on- 
 ly tell you, that he had a di&renc fort 
 
 of 
 
of Company at his return, from what he 
 had when he came, for the Men left him 
 to the Boys, who with great Hoops in- 
 flead of Acclamations, brought him to 
 tht Gondola, which conveyed him to the 
 Redentor, wheje he lodged ; And I never 
 had the curiofity to enquire what became 
 of him after. 
 
 Do5i. I thank you heartily for this In- 
 termefs ; I fee you have learnt fomething 
 in England : for, I affure you, we have 
 been thefe twenty Years turning this, 
 and all ferious Difcourfes, into R^idicule ; 
 but yet your Similitude is very pat ; for 
 in every Parliament that has been in Eng- 
 land thefe fixty Years, we have had no- 
 table Contefts between the Seed of the 
 Serpent, and the Seed of the Woman. 
 
 Eng. Gent, Well Sir, we have had a 
 Michael here in our Age, who has driven 
 out Lucifer y and reftored the true Deity 
 to his Power : but where Omnipotency 
 is wanting (which diflers the Frier's Cafe 
 and mine) the Devil of Civil War and 
 Confufion may get up again, if he be not 
 laid by Prudence and Vertue, and better 
 Conjurers than any we have yet at 
 Court. 
 
 l>(olk 
 
[219 ] 
 
 Noble Fen. Well Gentlemen, I hope 
 you have pardoned me for my Farce. 
 But, to be a little more ferious, pray tell 
 me how you will induce the King to 
 give up fo much ot his Right as may lerve 
 your turn ? Would you have the Parlia- 
 ment make War with him again ? 
 
 Eng, Gent, There cannot, nor ought 
 to be, any Change, butbyHisMajefty's 
 free Confent ; for befides, that a War is 
 to be abhorred by all Men that love their 
 Country, any Conteft of that kind in 
 this Cafe {viz. to take away the leaft part 
 of the Kings Right) could be juftified by 
 no man living. I fay, befides that, a Ci- 
 vil War has mifcarried in our days^which 
 was founded (at leaft pretendedly ) up- 
 on Defence of the People's own Rights : 
 In which, althougli they had as clear a 
 Viftory in the end, as ever any Conteft 
 upon Earth had, yet could they never 
 reap the leaft advantage in the World by 
 it : but went from one Tyranny to ano* 
 ther , from Barelones Parliament , to 
 Cromwell'^K€\^w\ from that, to aCom^ 
 mittee of Satety ; leaving thofe Grave 
 Men, who managed Affairs at the begin- 
 ning, amazed to fee new Men, and new 
 
 Prin^ 
 
Principles Governing England. And this 
 induced them to Co-operate to bring 
 things back juft where they were before 
 the War. Therefore this Remedy will 
 be either none, or worfethan the Difeafe.- 
 It not being now as it was in the Barons 
 time, when the Lord who led out his 
 Men, could bring them back again when 
 he pleafed, and Rule them in the mean 
 time, being his Vaflals. But now there 
 is no Manoffo much Credit, but that 
 one who behaves himfelf bravely in the 
 War, fliall out-vye him 5 and, poffibly, 
 be able to do what he pleafes with the 
 Army and the Government : And in this 
 corrupt Age, it is ten to one, he will ra- 
 ther do Hurt than Good with the Power 
 he acquires. But becaufe you ask me 
 how we would perfwade the King to this? 
 I anfwer, by the Parliament's humbly 
 Remonftrating to His Majefty, that it is 
 his own Interefl:, Prefervation, Quiet 
 and true Greatnefs, to put an end to the 
 Diftraftions of his Subjefts, and that it 
 cannot be done any other way, and to 
 defire him to enter into debate with fome 
 Men Authorized by them, to fee if there 
 can be any other means than what they 
 
 fliall 
 
[ 2.2.1 ] 
 
 fhall offer to compofe things : if they find 
 there may, then to embrace it, other- 
 wife to iniill: upon their own Propofals : 
 and ii in the end they cannot obtain thofe 
 Retjuefts, which they think the only ef- 
 kntial means to prelerve their Country, 
 then to beg their Difmiffion, that they 
 may not flay, and be Partakers in the 
 Ruin of it. Now, my Reafons why the 
 King will pleale to grant this, after the 
 through difcufling of it, are two. Firft, 
 Becaufe all great Princes have ever made 
 up Matters with their Subjects upon fuch 
 Conteft, without coming to Extremi- 
 ties. The two Greatefl, and moft Valian t 
 of our Princes, were Edward the Firfl, 
 and his Grandchild Edward the Third : 
 thefe had very great Demands made 
 them by Parliaments, and granted them 
 all ; as you may fee upon the Statute- 
 Book, Edward the Second, and Richard 
 the Second, on the contrary, refufed all 
 things till they were brought to Extre- 
 mity. There is Memorable Example in 
 the Greek Story of theopowpus King of 
 SpartA ; whofe Subjeds finding the Go- 
 vernment in diforder for want of fome 
 Perfons that might be a Check upon the 
 
 grate 
 
great Power of the King, propofed to 
 him the Creation of the Epkores (Officers 
 who made that City fo Great and Famous 
 afterwards.) The King finding by their 
 Reafons (which were unanfwerable, as I 
 think ours now are,) that the whole Go- 
 vernment oi Sparta ^2ls near its Ruin, 
 without fuch a Cure ; and confidering 
 that he had more to lofe in that Diforder 
 than others, freely granted their defires; 
 for which being derided by his Wife, who 
 asked liim what a kind ot Monarchy he 
 would leave to his Son? anfwered, a ve- 
 ry good one, becaufe it will be a very 
 lalling one. Whicli brings on my Second 
 Reafon, for which I believe the King will 
 grant thefc things ; becaufe he cannot 
 any way mend himfelf, nor his Condi- 
 tion, if he do not. 
 
 Nohle Ven, You have very fully con- 
 vinced me of two things: Firfl, That we 
 have no reafon to expeft or believe that 
 the Purhament will ever incrcafe the 
 Kings Power: And then, that the King 
 cannot by any way found himfelf a New, 
 and more abfolutc Monarchy, except he 
 can alter the Condition of Property, 
 wbich I think we may takx: for granted 
 
 to 
 
to be impo/Tiblc. Bur yet, I know not 
 why we may not fuppofe that (although 
 he cannot ellablifli toall Pollerity fuch 
 an Empire) he may, notwithftanding, 
 change the Government at the prefent ; 
 and calHng ParHaments no more, admi- 
 nifter it by force, as it is done in France ^ 
 for fome good time. 
 
 Eng, Geyjt, in France it has been along 
 Work; and although that Tyranny was 
 begun , as has been faid , by Petition 
 from the vState themfelves, not tobeaf- 
 fembled any more ; yet the Kings fmcc, 
 in time ofgrcat Dillradion, have thought 
 fit to convocate them again ; as they did 
 in the Civil Wars thrice : Once at Ork- 
 atis, and twice at Blois, I would not re- 
 peat what I have fo tedioufly difcourfed 
 of concerning France already, but only 
 to intreat you to remember that our Na- 
 tion has no fuch poor and numerous Gen- 
 try, which draw better Revenues from 
 the King's Purfe,than they can from their 
 own E(tates;all our Country People con- 
 fifting of Rich Nobility and Gentry, of 
 Wealthy Yeomen, and of Poor Younger 
 Brothers, who have little or nothing, 
 and can never raife their Companies, if 
 
 they 
 
[ ^2,4 3 
 
 they iliould get CommifTions; Vithbut- 
 their Elder Brothers Alfiftance amongft : 
 his Tenants, or elfe with the free confent 
 and defireof thei'eople, which, in thia? 
 cafe, would hardly be afforded thenrt > 
 But we will fuppofe there be idle Peopled 
 enough to make an Army, and that tlie^ 
 King has Money enough to Arm and* 
 Raife them : And I will grant too, to a- 
 void tedioufnefs (although I do not think 
 it poffible) that the People will at thefirft, 
 for fear, receive them into their Houfes^ 
 and Quarter them againft Law; nay, 
 pay the Money which fliall be by Illegal 
 Edi£fs, impofed upon the Subjefts to pay 
 them ; Yet is it poffiblc An Army can 
 continue any time to enflave their own 
 Country ? Can they refifl the Prayers, 
 or the Curfes of their Fathers, Brothers, 
 Wives, Mothers, Sifters, andof allPer- 
 fons wherever they frequent. Upon 
 this Account all the Greek Tyrants were 
 of very Ihort Continuance; who being 
 in chief M^agiftracy and Credit in their 
 Commonwealths, by means of Soldiers 
 and Satellites y ufurped the Soveraignty. 
 But did ever any of them, excepting D/i?- 
 nyfiu6, leave it to his Family ? Many Ar- 
 mies' 
 
mies of the Natives have deftroy'ed Ty- 
 rannies : So the Decemnj'trate was ruined 
 at Rome, the Tarqu'ins expelled before 
 that: Our own Country has been a Stage, 
 even in our time, where this Tragedy has 
 been fufficiently afted ; for the Army, 
 after the War was done, fearing the Mo- 
 narchy fliould be reftored again, held 
 Councils , got Agitators ; and though 
 there were often very fevere Executions 
 upon the Ring-leaders, did at length, by 
 their perfeverance, necellitate their Offi- 
 cers to joyn with them ( having many 
 good Head-pieces of the Party toadvife 
 them ; ) ^nd fo broke all Treaties. And 
 the* Parliament too, adhering to a fmall 
 Party of them who confented to lay afide 
 Kingly Government , and afterwards 
 drove them away too,fearing they would 
 continue to Govern in an Oligarchy. I 
 am far from approving this way they 
 ufed, in which they broke all Laws, Di- 
 vine and Humane, Political and Moral : 
 But I urge it only to fliew how eafily an 
 Army of Natives is to be deluded with 
 the Name of Liberty, and brought to 
 pull down any thing which their Ring- 
 leaders tell them tends to enflaving their 
 Country. 'Tis true, this Army was af- 
 
 Q^ terwards 
 
izi6] 
 
 terwards cheated by their General ; who 
 without their Knowledge , much lefs 
 Confent, one Morning, fuddenly made 
 himfelf Tyrant of his Country, ft is as 
 true, that their Reputation (not their 
 Arms; fupported him in that State for 
 fome time ; but it is certain that they 
 did very often, and to the laft, refufe to 
 be inflrumental to levy Moneys, though 
 for their own Pay : and fb he, againll 
 his Will, was fain to call from time to 
 time Parliamentary Conventions. And 
 it is moft certain that he did, in theSick- 
 nefs of which he died , often complain 
 that his Army would not go a ftep farther 
 with him .* and, deface, fbme Months 
 after his death, they did dethrone his 
 Son, and reftore the Remainder of the 
 old Parliament, upon promife made to 
 them in fecret (by the Demagogue of 
 that Aflembly) that a Commonwealth 
 ihould be fpeedily framed and fetled. 
 
 Noble Ven, Sir, I am fatisfied that an 
 Army raifed hereon a fudden, and wliich 
 never (aw an Enemy, could not be 
 brought to aft fuch high things for the 
 Ruin of their ow^n Government ,• nor 
 poiTibly, would be any way able to refill 
 x\\^ Fury and Infurreftion of the People. 
 
 But 
 
[2.1?] 
 
 ^But what lay yoiiof aForreign Armyi 
 
 railed by your King abroad, and brought 
 
 ^over, whole Officers and Soldiers Ihall 
 
 ^have no Acquaintance or Relations a* 
 
 mongft the People here. 
 
 £«g. Gefir. All Forces of that kind mu£t 
 be either Auxiliaries or Mercenaries: 
 Auxiliaries arc fuch as are lent by fome 
 Neighbour Prince or State, with their 
 own Colours, and paid by themfclves ; 
 though pollibly, the Prince who demands 
 them may furnifii the Money. Thefe 
 ulually return home again, when the oc- 
 calion, for which they were demanded,. 
 is over: But whether they do or not, if 
 if they be not mixed and over-ballanced 
 with Forces which depend upon the 
 Prince who calls tliem, but that the whole 
 Weight and Power lies in them, they will 
 certainly, firft or laft, feize that Country 
 for their own Soveraiga And as for 
 Mercenaries, they mull be railed ('tis 
 true) with the Money of the Prince who 
 needs them, but by the Authority and 
 Credit of fome Great Perfons who are to 
 Lead and Command them : And thefe, in 
 all Occafions, have made their owa Com- 
 mander Prince^as /^ Sforz4 at M/Lw drove 
 out by this trick the Fifconti p ancienj^ 
 
 ^ D tikes 
 
[ liS ] 
 
 Dukes of that State, and the Mamalukes 
 m Egypt made themfelves a Military 
 Commonwealth. So that the way of an 
 Army here would either be no Remedy 
 at all, or one very much worfe than the 
 Difcafe to the Prince himfelf. 
 
 Moh^e Fen. Well Sir, I begin to be of 
 Opinion, that any thing the King can 
 grant the Parliament ( efpecially fuch a 
 Parliament as this is, which confifts of 
 Men of very great Eftates, and fo can 
 have no Interelt to defire Troubles) will 
 not be fo inconvenient to him, as to en- 
 deavour to break the Government by 
 force. But why may he not, for this 
 time, by foothing them, and offering 
 them great AlHancef. abroad for the Inte- 
 reft oi En<iland^ and ballancing Matters 
 in Europe more eaven than they have 
 been \ and, in fine, by offering them a 
 War with t!ie French, to which Nation 
 they have fo great a hatred ; lay them 
 affecp, and get good llore of Mony, and 
 flave off^this fevereCure you fpeak of, 
 at lead, for fome time longer ? 
 
 Eng, Gent. There has been fomething 
 
 of this done too lately; and there is a 
 
 Gentleman lies in the Tower, who is to 
 
 anfvver for it. But you may pleafe to 
 
 ' . ^ under^ 
 
underfland, that there is fcarce any 
 amongfl: the middle fort of People, much 
 lefs within the Walls of the Houfe of 
 Commons, who do not perfedly know, 
 that we can have no Alliance with any 
 Nation in the World that will fignifie any 
 thing to them, or to our felvcs, till our 
 Government be redrefled and new model- 
 led. And therefore, though there were 
 an Army Landed in this Illand, yet that 
 we muft begin there, before we are fit 
 to repulfe them , or defend our felves. 
 And the fear and fenfe of this People uni^ 
 verfally is, that if we fliould have any 
 War, either for our own Concerns, or 
 for thofc of our Allies, whilft Matters re- 
 main as they do at home, it would cer^ 
 tainly come to this pafs ; that either be- 
 ing beaten, we Ihould fubjeft this King- 
 dom to an Invafion, at a time when we 
 are in a very ill condition to repell it ; or 
 elfe, if we were Viftorious, that our 
 • iCourtiersandCounfellors infragrante, or 
 t'^ the French cry, d^emhle, would employ 
 that Mettle and good Fortune to try lome 
 fuchConcIufions at home as we have been 
 -.difcourfmg of. And therefore, if any War 
 % fliould be undertaken withoutParliament, 
 o^you fliould fee the People rejoyce as much 
 t^v (^3 ^t 
 
^t any difafter out Forces fliould receive^ ^W 
 as they did when the Scots feized the four ;i^ 
 Northern Counties in 1639. or before 
 that, when we were beaten at the Ifle of 
 Rhee, or when we had any Lofs in the 
 laft War with Holland. And this Joy is -J 
 not fo unnatural as it may feemtothofe 
 who do not confider the Caufe of it ^ 
 which is the breach of our old Govern- 
 ment, and the neceility our Governors 
 are under to make fome new Experi- 
 ments : And the fear we are in, that any 
 Profperity raay make them able to try 
 them, either with Effect, or atleaft with 
 Impunity* Which Confideratiort made 
 a Court-Droll fay lately to His Majelty, 
 (who feemed to wonder why his Subjed^ 
 hated the French fo tnuch ; ) Sir, it is be- 
 caufe you love them, and efpoufe their 
 Irttereft: And if you would difcover this 
 Truth clearly, you may pleafe to make 
 War with the Kingof/r^w^; and then 
 you Ihall fee, that this People will not 
 only love them, but take their parts, and 
 wiUi them Succefs ; but will exceedingly ^ 
 rejoyce when they are Viftorious in fink- 
 ing your Ships, or defeating your Forces. 
 Ana this is fufficient to anfwer your Pro- 
 pofal for Alliances abroad, and for a War 
 \ with 
 
with France. Befides this (to wind all ^ 
 up in a Word ) it is not to be imagined; , ,.. 
 that {q good and wife a Prince as we have 
 at this time ihouldever be induced (when 
 he comes to underftand perfeftly his own 
 Condition) to let his own Intereft (grant- 
 ing his Power to be ^Qy which is very 
 fahe) contcll with the Safety and Prefer- 
 vation of his People, for which only it 
 was given him ; or that he will be any 
 way tenacious of fuch Prerogatives, as 
 now, by a natural Revolution of Political 
 Circumdances, are fo far from continu- 
 ing ufeful to his Governing the People, 
 that they are the only Remora and Ob- 
 ftacleof all Government, Settlement and 
 Order. For His Majelly muft needs 
 know, that all Forms of regulating Man- 
 kind under Laws were ordained by God 
 and Man/or the Happinefs andSecurity of 
 the Governed ,and not for the Intereft and . 
 Greatnefs of thofewho Ru!e;un!efs where^ ^ 
 there is Melhr Natura'm the Cafe.So God 
 Governs Man for his own Glory onIy,and 
 Men Reign over Beafts for their own Ufc^ 
 andService;and where an Abfolute Prince,, 
 rules over his ownServants whom he feeds.^, 
 and pays (as we have faid,) or the Ma;(lqie a 
 of a great and numerous Family Governs 
 
 Qj, his 
 
[231] 
 
 his Houfliold ; they are both bound bys 
 tbe Law of God and Nature, arid by • 
 their own Intereft, to do them Juftice, 
 and not hf^znire or Tyranize over them, 
 more than the necelfity of preferving 
 their Empire and Authority requires. 
 
 'Bo^. iiutSir, coniideringthe difScuW 
 ty which will be found in the King, and 
 pofljbly in the Parhamcnt too, to come 
 up to {o great an alteration at the firfl, 
 and the danger that may happen by our 
 remaining long in this unfetled Condi- 
 tion, which does hourly expofe us to in- 
 numerable hazards, both at home, and 
 from abroad; why may we not begin, 
 and lay the Foundation now, by remov- 
 ing all His Majefty's prefent Council by 
 Parhament; whic]\is no new thing, but 
 liath been often pradifed in many Kings 
 Reigns? 
 
 uE^g, Gent, Firll, the Council, that is, 
 the Privy Council which you mean, is 
 no part of our Government, as we may 
 have occafion to fliew hereafter, nor is. 
 the King obliged by any Fundamental 
 Law, or by any Aft of Parliament to 
 hearken to their Advice^or fo much a3 to 
 ask it; and if you fliould make one on 
 purpofe, befidesthat it would; not be fo 
 sMA jsffedual 
 
effcftual as what we may oropofe , it 
 would be full as hard to go down either 
 with King or ParUament. But befides all 
 this, you would feeXome of thefeCoun- 
 fellours fo nominated by Parliament,per- 
 Iiaps prove honeft, and then they would 
 be forced to withdraw as fome lately did, 
 becaufe they found, I fuppofe, that till 
 the Adminiftration be alter'd, it is im- 
 polTibie that their Councils can be im- 
 braced, or any thing be afted by them 
 which may tend to the good of their 
 Country, thofe who have not fo great 
 a fence of Honour and Integrity, will 
 be prefently corrupted by their own In- 
 tereft, whilft the Prince is left in pofleffi- 
 on of all thofe baits and means to anfwer 
 fuch Mens expedations : It being moft 
 certain, that if you have a mufty Veflel, 
 and by confequence diflikc the Beer which 
 comes out of it, and draw it out,caufing 
 the Barrel to be immediately fiU'd with 
 good and Ibund Liquor,it is certain by ex- 
 perience, that both your new Drink, and 
 all that ever you lliall put into the Cask, 
 till it be taken in pleces,and the Pipes fiia* 
 ved, and new modePd, will be full as 
 mufty, and unfavoury as the firft which 
 you found fault with. 
 
 Kohle 
 
[ ^34 3 
 
 Nohle Ven. Now, Sir, I think we arc 
 tit an end of our Queflions, and I for my 
 part am convinced, that as the King can- 
 not better himfelfany way by falling out jo 
 with his People at this time, fo that his 
 goodnefs and wifdom is fuch, that he will 
 rather chufe to imitate the moft glorious 
 andgenerousof his PredecelTors, as Ed- 
 ward the Firil, ^nd Edward the Third, 
 than thofe who were of lefs worth, 
 arid more unfortunate, as Edward the 
 Second, and Richard the Second. And 
 therefore we aref now ready to hear,what 
 you would think fit to ask of fo excel* 
 lent a Prince. 
 
 Ertg. Qent. I fiever undertook to be {o 
 prefumptuous ; there is a Parliament to 
 /it fpeedily, and certainly thdy are the fit-* 
 tell every way to fearch into fuch mat- 
 ters ; and to anticipate their wifdom 
 would be unreafonable, and might give 
 them jufl offence* But beca^ufe all this tit- 
 tle tattle may not go for nothing, I lliall ^ 
 prefume to give you my thoughts, how 
 the Cure mull be wrought, vi^ithout de- 
 fending to particulars. The Caufe Im- 
 mediate (as we have faid) of our Difeafe, 
 i$theinexecutionof our Laws; and it is 
 rhofl true, that when that is alter'd for 
 
 the 
 
the better, and that all our Laws are duly 
 executed, we are in health; for as we can 
 never have the entire benefit of them, till 
 our Government is upon a right Bafis; fo 
 whenever we enjoy this happinefs, to 
 have the full benefit of thofe Conftituti- 
 ons, which were made by our Anceltors 
 for our fafe and orderly living, our Go- 
 vernment is upon a right Bafis; therefore 
 we mufl: enquire into the Caufe why our 
 Laws are not executed, &: when you have 
 found and taken away that Caufe, all is 
 well. The Caufe cnii be no other 
 than this, That the King is told and does 
 believe, that moft of thele great Charters 
 or Rights of the People, of which wenow 
 chiefly treat, are againft his Majcfties In- 
 tereft, though this be vcryfalfe (as has 
 been faid) yet we will not difpute it at 
 this time, but take it for granted, fo that 
 the King having the Supream execution 
 of the Laws in his hand,cannot be reafon- 
 ably fuppofed to be willing to execute 
 them whenever he can chufe whether he 
 will do it or no ; it being natural for eve- 
 ry man not to do any thing againft his 
 own Interefl; when he cXn help it; now 
 when you have thought well what it 
 iliould be that gives tlie King a Ltberty 
 
 to 
 
to chufe whether any part of the Law 
 flialLHe currant or no, you will find that 
 it is the great Power the King enjoys in 
 the Government ; when the ParUament 
 hath difcovered this, they will no doubt 
 demand of hi$ Majefly an abatement of 
 his Royal Prerogative in thofe matters 
 only which concern our enjoyment of 
 ®ur All, that is our Lives, Liberties and 
 Eftates, and leave his Royal Power entire 
 and untoucht in all the other branches of 
 it, when this is done, we iliall be as if 
 fome great Heroe had performed the ad- 
 venrure of diflblving the Inchantment 
 we have been under fo many years. And 
 all our Statutes from the highefl: to the 
 loweft, from Magna Charta to that for 
 burying in Woollen will be current, and 
 we fliall neither fear the bringing in Po^ 
 pery, nor Arbitrary Power in the Inter- 
 vals of Parliament, neither will there be 
 any Diffentions in them ; all Caufes of Fa- 
 ftions between the Country and Court- 
 party being entirelyaboliflit; fo that the 
 People fliall have no reafon to diftruft 
 their Prince, nor he them. 
 
 Do^i. You make us a fine Golden Age, 
 JDut after all this will you not be plealed 
 to fliew us a fmall profpeft ohhis Canaan^ 
 
C ^37 ] 
 or Country of reft ; will you not vouch- 
 fefe to particularife a little what Powers 
 there are in the King, which you would 
 have difcontinued : would you have fuch 
 Prerogatives aboliiliedj or placed elfe- 
 whcre ? 
 
 Eng. Gent. There can be no Govern* 
 ment if they be abolirtied. But I will not 
 be like a Man who refufes to fingamongft 
 his Friends at their entreaty, becaufe he 
 has an ill Voice ; I will rath-er fuffer my 
 felf to be laught at by you in delivering 
 my fmall Judgment in this Matter, but: 
 ftill with this Proteftation, that I do be- 
 lieve that an Infinity of Men better qua^ 
 lifi'd than my fcif for fuch fublime Mat- 
 ters , and much more the Houfe of Com- 
 mons, who reprefent the Wifdom as well 
 as the Power of this Kingdom., may find 
 out a far better way, than my poor Parts 
 and Capacity can fuggeft. The Power 
 then which now being in the Crown do 
 hinder the cxecutian of our Laws, and 
 prevent by confequence our happinefs 
 and fettlement, are four ; The abfolute 
 Power of making War and Peace, Trea- 
 ties and Alliances with all Nations in the- 
 .World, by which means, by Ignorant 
 Counfellours, or Wicked Miniftcrs, many 
 
 of 
 
[138] 
 
 of our former Kings have made Gorifede' 
 rations and Wars, very contrary, and de- 
 ftrudtive to the Intereft of England^ and 
 by the unfortunate management of them 
 have often put the Kingdom in great ha- 
 zard of Invafion : Befidcsthat, as Jong as 
 there is a diftinftion made between the 
 Court Party and that of the Country^ 
 there will ever be a Jealoufie in the Peo- 
 ple, that thofe wicked Counfellours (who 
 may think they can be fafe no other way) 
 will make Alliances with Powerful Prin- 
 ces, in which there may be afecret Arti- 
 cle by which thofe Princes ftiall ftipulate 
 to affifl them with Forces upon a flior^ 
 warning to curb the Parliament, and pol- 
 fibly to change the Government And this 
 apprehenfion in the People will be the 
 left unreafbnable, becaufe Oliver Cromwel 
 (the great Pattern of fome of our Cour\ 
 tiers) is notorioufly known to have In- 
 ferted an Article, in his Treaty with Car- 
 dinal Mazzarin, during this King of 
 /r^^cf's Minority, That he iliould be af-i 
 filled with ten thoufand Men from France 
 upon occafion to preferve and defend him 
 in his Ufurped Government, againft His 
 Majefty that now is, or the People oi Eng- 
 land, or in fine, his own Army, whofe re- 
 volt 
 
volt he often feared. The Second great 
 Prerogative the King enjoys, is thefolc 
 Difpolal and Ordering of tke Mihtia by 
 Sea and Land, Raifing Forces, Garrifon- 
 ing and Fortifying places. Setting out 
 Ships of War> fo lar as he can do all this 
 without putting Taxations upon the Peo- 
 ple; and this not only in the Intervals of 
 Parliament,but even during their Sefiion, 
 fo chat they cannot raife the Train bands 
 of the Country or City to guard them- 
 felves, or fecure the Peace of rJie King- 
 dom. The third point is. That it is in 
 His Majefties Power to Nominate and 
 Appoint as he pleafes, and for what time 
 he thinks fit, all the Officers of the King- 
 dom that are of Trull or Profit, both 
 Civil, Military, and Eccleriaftical.(asthey 
 will be called) except where there is Jm 
 patro?iatHS ; Thefe two laft Powers may 
 furnifli a Prince who \v\\[ hearken to ill 
 defigning Counfellours, with the means 
 either of Invading the Government by 
 Force, or by his Judges and other Crea- 
 tures undermining it by Fraud ; Efpeci^ 
 ally by enjoying the Fourth Advantage, 
 which is the Laying out and Imploying, 
 as he pleafes, all the Pubhck Revenues of 
 the Crown Qr Kingdom, and that with- 
 
 out. 
 
[ 2'40 ] 
 
 out having any regard (except bethinks 
 fit) totheneceffityofthe Navy, or any 
 other thing that concerns the Safety of 
 the Publick. So that all thefe Four great 
 Powers, as things now ftand, may bead- 
 operated at any time, as well to deftroy 
 and ruine the good Order and Govern*- 
 ment of the State, as to prefer ve and-fup- 
 port it as they ought to do. 
 
 Noh. Fen. But if you dived the King 
 of thefe Powers, will you have the Par- 
 liament fit always to Govern thefe 
 Matters > 
 
 Eng. Gent. Sir, I would not divert the 
 King of them, much lefs would I have 
 the Parliament afliime them, or perpetu- 
 ate their Sitting : They are a Body more 
 fitted to make Laws, and punilh the 
 Breakers of them, than to execute them. 
 I would have them therefore petition His 
 Majefty by way of Bill, that he will 
 pleafe to exercife thefe four great Magna- 
 lia of Government, with the Confent of 
 four feveral Councils to be appointed for 
 that end , and not otherwife ; that is, 
 with the Confent of the Major part of 
 them , if any of them diflent. In all 
 which Councils His Majefty , or who 
 he pieafes to appoint, fliall prefide ; the 
 
 Councils 
 
f24l] 
 
 Coiinciis to, be named in Parliament; 
 firJl all the number, and every Year af- 
 terwards a third part : So each Year If^ 
 third part fliail go out, and a Recruit of 
 an equal number come in : And in three 
 Year^Lthey fliall be all new, and noPer- 
 foja toxome into that Council, or any 
 other of the four, till he have kept out 
 of any of them full three Years, being as 
 long as he was in. And this I learnt from 
 your Quaranttas at Venice ' and the Vk 
 is excellent ; for being in fuch a Circula- 
 tion, and fure to have their Intervals of 
 Power, they will neither grow fo info- 
 lent as to brave their King, nor will the 
 Prince have any occafion to corrupt them, 
 although he had the means to do it,which 
 in this new Model he cannot have. 
 Thefe Men in their feveral Councils 
 fliould have no other Inftruftions, but to 
 difpofeofall things, and aft in their fe- 
 veral Charges, for the Intereft and Glory 
 o{ England \ and iliallbe Anfwerable to 
 Parliament, from time to time, for any 
 malicious or advifed Mifdemeanor : only 
 that Council which manages the Publick 
 Revenue, fliall (befides a very copious 
 and Honourable Revenue which ihall be 
 left to His Majefty's difpofal for his own 
 
Entertainment, as belongs to the Splen- 
 dor and Majefty of the Government ) 
 have Inftruftions to ferve His Majefty 
 (if he pleafes to command them, and not 
 otherwife) in the regulating and order- 
 ing his Oeconomy and Houlhold ; and if 
 they fhallfee it neceflary, for extraordi- 
 nary Occafions of treating Foreign Prin- 
 ces and Amballadors, or Prefenting them, 
 and the like Oftentation of Greatnefs ; to 
 confent with His Majefty moderately to 
 charge the Revenue to that end. I veri- 
 ly believe that this Expedient is much 
 more effeftual than either the Juflitia of 
 Aragon was, or the Ephores of Sparta : 
 Who being to check the King almoft in 
 every thing, without having any fliare 
 in his Councils, or underftanding them, 
 could not chufe but make a fullen pofture 
 of Aflairs ; whereas thefe both feem, and 
 really are the King's Minifters, only ob- 
 liged by Parliament to aft faithfully and 
 honeftly ; to which, even without that, 
 all other Counfellors are bound by Oath. 
 As for the other Council, now called the 
 Privy Council, the King may ftill pleafe 
 to continue to nominate them at his plea- 
 fure, fo they aft nothing in any of the 
 Matters properly within the Jurifdiftion 
 
 of 
 
[^43 3 
 of thele four Councils, but meddle with 
 the Affairs of Merchants, Plantations, 
 Charters,and other Matters, to which the 
 Regal Power extendeth. And provided 
 that His Majefty call none of the Perfons 
 employed in thefe other four Councils 
 during their being fo, nor that this C^oun- 
 cil do any way intermeddle with any Af- 
 fairs, Criminal or Civil, which are to be 
 decided by Law, and do belong to the 
 Jurifdiftions of other Courts or Magi- 
 ftrates ; they being no eftabliflied Judi- 
 catory, or Congregation, which either 
 our Government or Laws do take notice 
 of (as was faid before) but Perfons con- 
 gregated by the King, as his Friends and 
 faithful Subjefts, to give him their Opi- 
 nion in the Execution of his Regal Office. 
 As for Example, the King does exercife, 
 at this time, a Negative Voice as to Bills 
 prefented to him by the Parliament , 
 which he claims by Right; no Man ever 
 faid that the Privy Council had a Nega- 
 tive Voice; yet former Kings did not only 
 ask their Advice as to the paffing or not 
 paffing of fuch Bills , but often decided 
 the Matter by their Votes ; which, al- 
 though it be a high Prefumptionin them, 
 when tliey venture to give him Counfel 
 
 R X con- 
 
[M43 
 contrary to what is given him by his grea- 
 teft Council, yet never any of them have 
 been queflioned for it ; being looked up- 
 on as private Men, vt^ho fpeak according 
 to the befl of their Cunning, and fuch as 
 have no publick Capacity at all. But if 
 this be not fo, and that this Council have 
 fome Foundation in Law, and fome pub- 
 lick Capacity, I wifli in this new Settle- 
 ment it may be made other wife, and that 
 His Majefty pleafe to take their Counfel 
 in private ; but fummon no Perfons to 
 appear before them ; much lefs give them 
 Authority to fend for in Cuftody, or Im- 
 prifon any Subjeft, which may as well 
 be done by the Judges and Magiftrates ; 
 who, if Secrecy be required; may as well 
 be Sworn to Secrecy as thefe Gentlemen; 
 and I believe can keep Counfel as well, 
 and give it too. 
 
 Nohle Ven, But would you have none 
 to manage State Afiairs, none Imprifoned 
 for fccret Confpiracies, and kept till they 
 can be fully discovered I you have made 
 an Aft here lately about Imprifonments, 
 that every Perfon fliall have his Habeas 
 Corpus, I think you call it : fo that no 
 Man, for what occafion foever, can lie 
 in Prifon above a Night, but the Caufe 
 
 muft 
 
CM5] 
 muft be revealed, though there be great 
 caufe for the concealing it. 
 
 Eng, Gent. This Adl you mention , 
 and a great many more which we have 
 tothefamepurpofe, that is, againft Ille* 
 gal Imprifonments, lliews that for a long 
 time the Power over Men's Pui*fes has v ^y 
 been exercifed (under His Majefty) by 
 fuch as were very likely, rather to em- 
 ploy it ill than well ; (that is) would ra- 
 ther Imprifon ten Men for Honourable 
 Aftions ; fuch as ftanding for the People's 
 Rights in Parliament, refufing to pay !!• 
 legal Taxes, and the like, than one for 
 projefting and inventing Illegal Mono- 
 polies, or any other kind ot oppreffing 
 the People. This made firft Magna Char- 
 ta, thtn the Petition of Right, and divers 
 other Afts befides this laft, take that 
 Power quite away, and make the Law 
 and the Judges the only Difpofersof the 
 Liberties of our Perfons. And it may be, 
 when the Parliament ihall fee the Fruit 
 of this Alteration we are now difcour- 
 fing of, and that State Affairs are in bet- 
 ter hands, they may think fit to provide 
 that a Return, or Warrant of Imprifon- 
 ment from one of thefe Four Councils 
 (which I fuppofe will have a Power of 
 
 R 3 Com- 
 
Commitment given them, as to Perfons 
 appearing Delinquents before them) 
 wherein itfliall be exprefled. That if the 
 Publick is like to fufteror be defrauded, 
 if the Matter be immediately divulged ; 
 I fay in this Cafe, the Parliament may 
 pleafe to make it Lawful, for the Judge 
 to delay the Bailing of him for fomie 
 fmall time, becaufe it is not to be judg- 
 ed, thatthefe Counfellours fo chofen,and 
 fo inilruftcd, and to continue fo fmall a 
 time, will ufe this Power ill ; efpecially 
 being accountable for any abufing of it 
 to the next Parliament. And I luppofe 
 the Parliament, amongft other Providons 
 in this behalf , will require that there 
 fliall be a Regiller kept of all the Votes 
 of thefe feveral Councils, with the names 
 as well of thofe who confenred, as of 
 fuch who diflented : And as to the former 
 part of your Queflion, whether I would 
 have none to manage State Affairs; I 
 think there are very few State Affairs 
 that do not concern either Peace and War 
 and Treat-ies abroad, the management 
 of the Arms, Militia, and pojfe Com'tta- 
 tus at home ; the management of all the 
 Publick Moneys, and the Eleftion of 
 all Officers whatfoever; the other parts 
 
 of 
 
Cm/] 
 
 of State Affairs, which are Making and 
 RepeaUngo[ La ws,pun idling high Crimes 
 againft the State, with Levying and Pro- 
 portioning all manner of Impolitions up- 
 on the People, this isreferved to the Par- 
 liament it felf; and the Execution of ail 
 Laws to the Judges, and Magiftrates ; 
 And I can think of no other Affairs of 
 State than thefe. 
 
 Do^, Do you intend that the Council 
 for chufing Officers Ihail Eled: them of 
 the King's Houfhold, that is, his Menial 
 Servants ? 
 
 Erjg. Gent, No, that were unreafon- 
 able, exceptany of them have any Jurif 
 diftion in the Kingdom, or any place or 
 preheminence in Parliament annexed to 
 fuch Office,but in thefe things which con- 
 cern the Powers and Jurifdiftionsof thele 
 feveral Councils (wherein, la guardia deU 
 la lahcrta, as Machiavil calls it , is now 
 to be placed) I fliall not prefumeto fay 
 anything, but affure your felf, if ever it 
 come to that, it will be very well di- 
 gefted in Parliament, they being very 
 good at contriving fuch Matters ,* and 
 making them prailicable, as well as at 
 performing all other Matters that concern, 
 the Interelt and greatnefs of the Kingdom. 
 
 R 4 Doci. 
 
[^48] 
 Do£l. I have thought that the Epharcs 
 oi Sparta WQtt an admirable Magiltracy, 
 not only for the Interefl; of the People, 
 but likewife for the prcfervation of the 
 authority ot the Kings, and of their lives 
 too ; for Plutarch obferves that the Ci- 
 tys of Mefene and Argos had the fame 
 Government with Lacedemon, and yet for 
 want of erefting fuch an Authority as 
 was in the Ephores, they were not only 
 perpetually in broils amongft themfelves, 
 and for that reafon ever beaten by their 
 Enemies, whereas the Spartans were al- 
 ways victorious , but even their Kings 
 were the mofV miferable of Men, being 
 often call'd in queftion Judicially, and fo 
 loft their Lives, and many of them mur- 
 dered by Infurreftions of the People : 
 And at laft in both thefe Cities, the Kings 
 were driven out, their Families extirpa- 
 ted, and the Government turn'd into a 
 Democracy, And I ever thought that this 
 expedient you propofe (for I have heard 
 you difcourfe of it often before now) 
 would prove a more fafe, and a more no- 
 ble reformation than the Inftitution of 
 the Ephores was, and that a Prince who 
 Is a lover of his Country, who is Gra- 
 cious, 
 
[M9] 
 cious, Wife and Juft, (fucli a one as it has 
 pleafed God to fend us at this time) Ihall 
 be ten times more abfolute when this Re- 
 gulation is made , than ever he Vr as or 
 could be bebre, and that whatfoever he 
 propofes in any of thefe Councils will be 
 received as a Law, nay , as an Oracle .• 
 And on the other fide, ill and weak Prin- 
 ces fliall have no poifibility of corrupting 
 Men, or doingeitherthemfelves or their 
 People any kmd of harm or mifchief : 
 But have you done now > 
 
 Eng. Gent. No, Sir, when this Pro- 
 vifion is made for the Execution of the 
 Laws, (which I think very effeftual, not 
 to fay Infallible) although it is not to be 
 doubted, lut thatrhere will be from time 
 to time many excellent Laws Enafted ; 
 yet two I would have pafled immediately, 
 the one concerning the whole Regulation 
 of the Eleftions to Parliament, which we 
 need very much, and no doubt but it will 
 be well done ; that part of it which is ne- 
 ceflary to go hand in hand with our Setle- 
 ment, and which indeed muft be part of 
 it, is, that aParliament be Elefted every 
 year at a certain day, and that without 
 any Writ or Summons, the People Meet- 
 ing of courfe at the time appointed in tlie 
 
 ufuaJ 
 
[2^0] 
 
 ufual place (as they do in Parifhes at the 
 Church-Houfe to chufe Officers) and that 
 the Sheriffs be there ready to prefideand 
 to certifie the Eleftion. And that the Par- 
 liament fo Chofen fhall Meet at the time 
 appointed, and Sit and Adjourn as their 
 bufinefs is more or lefs urgent : But ftill 
 Adjourn, fetting yet a time for their com- 
 ing together again^ but if there fliall be a 
 neceffity (by reafon of Invafion or fome 
 other Caufe) for their Aflembling fooner; 
 then the King to Call the Counfellors of 
 thefe Four Counfels all together, and 
 with the confent of the major part of 
 them, intimate their Meeting fooner ; 
 but when the day comes for the Annual 
 Meeting of Another Parliament , they 
 muft be underftood to be Diflblved in 
 Law, without any other Ceremony jand ^ 
 the new one to take their place. 
 
 Do^. I would have this confidered too, 
 and provided for. That no Eleftion lliould 
 be made of any perfon who had not the 
 majority of the Eleftors prcfent to Vote 
 for him ; fo the Writ orders it, and fo 
 Reafon diftates ; for elfe, how can he be 
 faid to reprefent the County , if not a 
 fifth part have confented to his choice, as 
 happens fome times, and may do oftener, 
 
 for 
 
[^.JI ] 
 
 for where feven or eight lland for one 
 vacant place, as I have known in our lafl 
 Long ParHanicnt, where the Votes be- 
 ing let in Cohimns, he who has had mofl 
 Votes, has not exceeded four hundred of 
 above two thoufand who wereprefent. 
 
 IJolle Ven. This is a ftrange way, I 
 thought you had put every Manbyhim- 
 felf, as we do in our Government, and as I 
 underftood they do in the Houle of Com- 
 mons, when there is any nomination, 
 and then, if he has not the major part, he 
 is rcjefted. 
 
 Eng. Gent, This is very Material, and 
 indeed Eflential ; but I make no doubt, 
 but if this Projedt ihould come in play in 
 Parliament, this and all other particu- 
 lars (which would be both needlefs and 
 tedious to difcourfe of here) will be well 
 and effedually provided for. The next 
 A6H' would have palled, fliould be con- 
 cerning the Houfe of Peers, that as I take 
 it for granted, that there will be a Claufe 
 in the Bill concerning Eledions, that no 
 new Boroughs fliall be enabled to fend 
 Members to Parliament, except they fliall 
 be capacitated thereunto by an Aft, foit 
 being of the fa^menecellity as to the Li- 
 berty of Parliament, that the Peers (who 
 
 do 
 
[ZS2 ] 
 
 do and mufl: enjoy both a Neg;ativeaftd 
 Deliberative Voice in all Parliamentary 
 Tranfaftions, except what concerns Le- 
 vying of Money Originally) be exemp- 
 ted from depending abfolutely upon the 
 Prince, and that therefore it be declared 
 by Aft, that for the future, that no Peer 
 Ihali be made but by A£tofParliament,& 
 then that it beHereditary in hisMaleLine, 
 
 Nei/e Ven. I am not yet fully fatisfi- 
 ed how you can order your Matters 
 concerning this Houfe of Peers, nor 
 do I fee how the Conteft between 
 the Houfe of Commons and them, 
 can be fo laid afleep, but that they Will a- 
 rife again : Befides the Houfe of Commons 
 muft necellarily be extreamly concerned 
 to find the Houfe of Peers, which confifts 
 of private perfons, though very great and 
 honourable ones, in an Inflant dafli all 
 that they have been fo long hammering 
 for the good of all the People of England 
 whom they reprefent ; were it not better 
 now, you are upon fo great alterations, 
 to make an Annual Eleftive Senate, or at 
 leaft one wherein the Members Ihould be 
 but for Life, and not Hereditary. 
 
 Eng. Gent, By no means, Sir, theleis 
 change the better, and in this Cafe the 
 
 Meta-. 
 
Metaphyfical Maxime is more true than 
 in any, viz, Entta nonfmt multiplkancta 
 fine necefitate-, for great alterations fright 
 Men, and puzzle them, and there is no 
 need of it at all in this Cafe. I have told 
 you before, that there is a neceflity of a 
 Senate, and how fliort this Government 
 would be without it, and how confufed in 
 the mean time; the Roman Senate w^as He- 
 reditary amongft the Patridh except the 
 Cenfor left any of them out of the Roll 
 during his Magiftracy, for fome very 
 great and fcandalous offence; and in 
 that Cafe too there was an Appeal to the 
 People, as in all other Caufes, witnefs 
 the Cafe of Lucius Quintus and many o- 
 thers. To Ihew that there can be no need 
 of fuch a change here as you fpeakof, 
 you may pleafe to confider, that all 
 differences between the feveral parts of 
 any Government come upon the account 
 of Intereft, now when this Settlem^ent is 
 made, the Houfe of Peers, and the Houfe 
 of Commons, can have nolnterefttodil- 
 fent ; For as to all things of private Inte- 
 rcft, that is the Rights of Peers, both 
 during the fitting of Parliaments, and in 
 the Intervals, is left to their own Houfe 
 to judge of, as it is to the Houfe of Com- 
 mons 
 
mons to judge of their own Priviledges ; 
 And as for the conteft of the Peers Jurif- 
 diftion as to Appeal from Courts of Equi- 
 ty ; Befides that I would have that fet- 
 led in the A6t which fliould pafs concern- 
 ing the Lords Houfe ; I believe it will 
 never happen more, when the Govern- 
 ment is upon a right Foundation ; it ha- 
 ving been hitherto fomented by two dif- 
 ferent Parties,the Court Party fometimes 
 blowing up that difference to break the 
 Seffion, lell fome good Bills for the Peo- 
 pie fliould pafs, or that the King by rc- 
 jefting them, might difcontent his Peo" 
 pie ; to avoid which Dilemma, there need- 
 ed no more, but to procure fome perfon 
 to profecute his Appeal before the Lords ; 
 fome honeft Patriots afterwards poflibly 
 might ufe the fame policy which they 
 learnt from the Courtiers, toquaflifome 
 Bill very deftru£live,in which they were 
 out- voted in the Commons Houfe; other- 
 wife it is fo far from the Intereft of the 
 Commons to hinder Appeals from Courts 
 of Equity, that there is none amongft 
 them, but know we are almoft deftroy- 
 ed for want of it : And when they have 
 confidered well, and that fome fuch Re- 
 formation as this fliall take place t they 
 
 will 
 
will find that it can never be placed in a 
 more honourable and unbyas'd Judicato- 
 ry than this ; And I could vvilli that even 
 in the Intermi/Iion of Parliamentary Sef 
 fions, the whole Peerage of England, as 
 many of them as can conveniently be in 
 Town, may fit in their Judicial Capaci- 
 ties, and hear Appeals in Equity, as well 
 as Judge upon Writs of Errour. Now 
 as to your other Objeftion (which is in- 
 deed of great weight) that the Houfe of 
 Commons muft needs take it ill, that the 
 Lords fhould fruftrate their endeavours 
 for the Peoples good by their Negative ; 
 But if you confider one thing, the force 
 of this Objedion will vanilh ; which is. 
 That when this new Conftitution lliall 
 be admitted, the Lords cannot have any 
 Interefl: or temptation to differ with the 
 Commons, in any tlving wherein the 
 Publick good is concerned, but are obli- 
 ged by all the ties in the World, to run 
 the fame courfe and fortune with the 
 Commons, their Intereft being exaftly 
 the fame ; fo that if there be any diilent- 
 ing upon Bills between the two Houfes, 
 when each of them fliall think their own 
 Expedient conduces moft to the advan- 
 tage of the Publick ; this difference will 
 
 ever 
 
[ zs6 ] 
 
 ever be decided by right reafonat Confe- 
 rences ; And the Lords may as well con- 
 vince the Commons, as be convinced 
 by them ; and thefe Contefts are and e- 
 ver w'i\{ be of admirable ufe and benefit 
 to the Commonwealth, the reafon why 
 it is otherwife now, and that the Houfe 
 of Peers is made ufe of to hinder many 
 Bills from pafiing, that are fuppofed to be 
 for the eafe of the People, is, that the 
 great Counfellours and Officers which fit 
 in that Houfe, do fuggell (whether true 
 or falfe) that it is againll his Majefties 
 will and laterefl: that fuch an Ad fhould 
 pais, whereupon it has found Obftrufti- 
 on ; but hereafter it cannot be fo, firft, 
 becaufe our King himfelf cannot have any 
 defigns going ( as was proved before) 
 which ihall make it his advantage to hin- 
 der any good intended his People, whole 
 profperity then will be his own. And 
 then becaufe in a fliort time, the Peers 
 being made by Act of Parliament, will 
 confillof the bell Men of England both 
 for Parts and Eilates, and thofe who are 
 already made, if any of them have fmall 
 Eftates, the King if he had the Interefti 
 would not have the means to corrupt 
 them, the Pubhck Moneys, and the great 
 
 Qlfices 
 
Offices being to be difpenfedin another 
 manner than formerly , fo their Lord- 
 fhips will have no Motive in the World 
 to fteer their Votes and Councils, but 
 their own Honour andConfcience,and the 
 prefervation and profperity of their Coun- 
 try. So that it would be both needlefs 
 and unjufl: to pretend any change of this 
 kind. Befides,this alteration in the Admi- 
 niftfation of our Government being pro- 
 pofed to be done by the unanimous con- 
 fent of King, Lords, and Comrhons, and 
 not otherwife, it would be very prepo- 
 fterous to believe, that the Peers would 
 depofe themfelves of their Hereditary 
 Rights, and betake themfelves to the 
 hopes of being Elefted ; it is true, they 
 have loft the Power they had over the 
 Commons, but that has not been taken 
 from them by any Law, no more than it 
 was given them by any ; but is fallen by 
 the courfe of Nature, as has been fliewn at 
 large ; But though they cannot lead the 
 Commons by their Tenures, as formerly, 
 yet there is no reafon or colour that they 
 ihould lofe their Co-ordination, which I 
 am fure they have byLaw,and bythe Fun- 
 damental Conftitution of the Govern- 
 
 S ment. 
 
[1581 
 
 ment ; and which is fo far from being; 
 prejudicial to a lading Settlement (as was 
 iaid>that it infinitely contributes to it, 
 and prevents the Confufion which would 
 deftroy it. If I iliould have propofed any 
 thing in this Difcourfe which lliould have 
 Intrenched upon the King's Hereditary 
 Right, or that Ihould have hindred the 
 Majelly and Greatnefs of tliefe Kingdoms 
 from being reprefented by his Royal Per- 
 fon, I fliould have made your Story of 
 the Capuchine Fryar very Applicable to 
 me. 
 
 Nolle Ven. I fee you have not forgi- 
 ven me that Novel yet ; but pray give 
 me leave to ask you one Quefl ion: Why 
 do you make the Eledion of Great Of- 
 ficers, tobcby a fmall fecret Council, 
 that had been more proper for a Nume- 
 rous Aflembly ; as it is in moft Com- 
 mon-Wealths? 
 
 Eng.Gent, It is fo In Democracies, and 
 was fo in Sparta, and is done by your 
 Great Council in f^'^emce ; but wc are 
 not making fuch a kind of Government, 
 but rcdifying an ancient Monarchy, and 
 giving the Prince fome help in the Admi- 
 mftration of that great Branch of his 
 
 Regality; 
 
[ ^59 ] 
 Regality ; befides, it is fufficient, that 
 our Parliament chufes thefe Councils , 
 (rliatisahw^ys underftoodthe Lords and 
 Commons, with the Kings Confent;) be- 
 iides, it is po/iible, that if fuch a Regula- 
 tion as this come in Debate amongfl: 
 them, the Parliament will refcrve to it 
 feh the Approbation of the Great Offi- 
 cers, as Chancellor, Judges, General Of- 
 ficers of an Army^and the like ; and that 
 fuchihall not have a fettlement in thofe 
 Charges, till they are accordingly al- 
 lowed of; but may in the mean time 
 exercife them As to particulars, I lliall 
 always refer you to what the Parliament 
 ivill judge fit to Order in the Cafe ; 
 but if you have any thing to Objeft, or 
 to Ihew in general, that fome fuch Regu- 
 lation as this cannot bs efieftual to- 
 wards the putting our Diflrafted Coun^ 
 try into better Order; I lliall think my 
 felf obliged to Anfwer you, if you can 
 have Patience to hear me, and are not 
 weary already; as yoii may very well be, 
 Nohle Fen. I Ihall certainly never be 
 #eary of fuch Difcourfe; however I 
 fliall give you no further trouble in this 
 totter ; lor I am very fglly fatisfted, 
 
 S a: 
 
[z6o] 
 
 that fuch Reformation, if it could be 
 compafTed, would not only Unite all 
 Parties, but make you very Flourifliing 
 at home, and very Great abroad : but 
 have you any hopes that fuch a thing 
 will ever come into Debate > what do 
 the Parliament men fay to it ? 
 
 Ef^g. Gent. I never had any Difcourfe 
 to this purpofe, either with any Lord, 
 or Member of the Commons houfe, o- 
 therwife than as poffibly fome of thefe 
 Notions might fall in at Ordinary Con- 
 verfation: For I do not intend to In- 
 trench upon the Office of God, to teach 
 our Senatours Wifdom. I have known 
 fome men fo full of their own Notions, 
 that they went up and down fputtering 
 them in every Mans Face they met ; 
 fome went to Great Men during our late 
 troubles; nay, to the Kinghimfelf, to 
 offer their Expedients from Revelation. 
 Two Men I was acquainted with, of 
 which one had an Invention to reconcile 
 differences in Religion; the other had a 
 projeft for a Bank of Lands to lye as a 
 Security for fumms of Money lent; 
 both thefe v/ere Perfons of Great Parts 
 and Fancy ; but yet fo troublefome at all 
 
 Times, 
 
Times, and in all Companies, that I 
 have often been forced to repeat an Ex- 
 cellent Proverb of your Country : God 
 deliver me from a man that has but one 
 bufinefs ; and I afTure you there is no 
 Mans Reputation that I envy lefs, than I 
 do that of fuch Perfons ; and therefore 
 you may pleafe to believe that I have 
 not immitated them in fcattering thefe 
 Notions, nor can I Prophcfie whether a- 
 ny fuch Apprehenfions as thefe will ever 
 come into the Heads of thofe men who 
 are our true Phyfitians. But yet to an- 
 fwer your Queftion, and give you my 
 Conjefture; I believe that we are not 
 Ripe yet for any great Reform ; not on- 
 ly becaufe we are a very Debauch'd Peo- 
 ple; I do not only mean that we are gi- 
 ven to' Whoreing, Drinking, Gaming 
 andldlenefs; but chiefly that we have 
 a Politique Debauch, which is a negleft 
 of all things that concern the publick 
 wellfare, and a fetting up our own pri- 
 vate Intereft againft it ; I fay, this is 
 not all, for then the Polity of no Coun- 
 try could be Redreft : For every Com- 
 mon-Wealth that is out of order, has e- 
 ver all thefe Debauches wq fpeak of, as 
 
 S 3 Con- 
 
Coilfeqtlertces of their loofe State. Bi^t 
 there are two other Confiderations 
 which induce me to fear that our Cure is 
 not yet near. The firil is,becaafe moft of 
 the Wife and Grave Men of this King lorn, 
 are very filent, and will not open their 
 Budget upon any terms : and although 
 they diflike the prefent Condition we are 
 in as much as any Men, and fee the Pre- 
 cipice it leads us to, yet will never open 
 their Mouths to prefcribe a Cure ; bur 
 being asked what they would advife, give 
 a flirug like your Country-men. There 
 was a very confiderable Gentleman as 
 moft in Englandy both for Birth, Parr.s 
 andEftate, who being a Member oi the 
 Parliament that was called, 1640. con- 
 tinued all the War with them ; and bv 
 his Wifdom and Eloquence (which were 
 both very great) promoted very much 
 their Affiiirs* When the Faftions began 
 between the Presbyters and Indepen- 
 dants, he joyned Cordially with the lat- 
 ter, fo far as to give his Affirmative to 
 the Voteof NoAddrefles; that is, to aa 
 Order made in the Houfe of Commons, 
 to fend no more Meflages to the King,nor 
 
 to 
 
t ^'-^3 ] 
 
 :to receive any from him. Afterwards, 
 when an Afiault was made upon the 
 Houfe by the Army, and divers of the 
 Members taken violently away, and Se- 
 cluded ; he difliking it (though he were 
 none of them) voluntarily abicnted him- 
 fclf, and continued retired,; being exceed- 
 ingly avcrfe to a Democratical Govern- 
 ment, which was then declared for, till 
 Cromwell's Ufurpation,; and being infi- 
 nitely courted by him, abfolutcly re!u- 
 fed to accept of any Employment under 
 Jiim, or to give him the Icaft Counfel. 
 When Cromwell was dead, and a Parlia- 
 ment called by his Son, or rather by the 
 -Army, the chief Officers of which did, 
 from the beginning, whifper into the 
 Ears of the Leading Members , that if 
 they could make an honeft Government, 
 tliey fliould be flood by (as the Word 
 then -was) by the /Army. This Gentle- 
 man, at that time, neither would beE- 
 •Icfl-ed into thatParliamcnt, nor give the 
 leafl Advice to any other Perion that 
 was; butfkept himfetf-ftill uponrhsRs- 
 ierve. Infomuch that it was generally 
 believed, that although he had ever been 
 oppofite to the lane King's coming to the 
 
 S 4 Govern- 
 
[264] 
 
 Government again, though upon Propo- 
 fitions ; yet he might hanker after the 
 Reftoration of His Majefty that now is. 
 But that Apprehenfion appeared Ground- 
 lefs when it came to the pinch : for be- 
 ing confulted as an Oracle by the then 
 General Monk , whether he ihould re- 
 ftore the Monarchy again or no, would 
 make no Anfwer, nor give him the leaft 
 Advice ; and, ele fatto, hath ever fmce 
 kept himfelf from Publick Bufinefs ; al- 
 though , upon the Banifliment of my 
 Lord of Clarendon, he was vifited by one 
 of the Greateft Perfons in England, and 
 one in as muchEfteem with HisMajefly 
 as any whatfoever, and defired to accept 
 of fome great Employment near the 
 King ; which he abfolutely refufing, the 
 fame Perfon, not a Stranger to him, but 
 well known by him, begged of him to 
 give his Advice how His Majefty (who 
 defired nothing more than to unite all his 
 People together, and repair the Breaches 
 which the Civil War had caufed, now 
 my Lord Clarendon was gone, who by 
 his Counfels kept thofe Wounds open) 
 might perform that Honourable and Gra- 
 cious Work: but ftill this Gentleman 
 
 made 
 
[ ^65 ] 
 
 made his Excufes : And, in fliort, neither 
 then, nor at any time before or after (ex- 
 cepting when he fete in the Long Parlia- 
 ment of the Year 40.) neither during the 
 diftraftcd Times, nor fmce His Majefty s 
 Return, when they feemed more repo- 
 fed, would ever be brought, either by 
 any private intimate Friend, or by any 
 Perfon in Publick Employment, to give 
 the leaft Judgment of our Affairs , or 
 the leaft Counfel to mend them , 
 though he was not Ihye of declaring 
 his diflike of Matters as they went. And 
 yet this Gentleman was not only by re- 
 pute, andefteem a wife Man, but was 
 really fo, as it appeared by his manage- 
 ment of bufinefs, and drawing Decla- 
 rations, when he was contentea toadt; 
 as alfo by his exceeding prudent manage- 
 ing of his own Fortune, which was ve- 
 ry great , and his honourable Living 
 and providing for his Family ; his Daugh- 
 ters having been all Marrycd tothebeft 
 Men in England-^ and I dare allure you, 
 there are above an hundred fuch Men 
 in England, though not altogether of 
 that eminency. 
 
 iJohle 
 
[266 2 
 
 Nohle Ven. Methinks thefc perfons arc 
 altogether as bad an cxtream as the lo- 
 quacious men you fpoke of before. I 
 remember when I went to School, our 
 Mafter, amongft other Common places 
 in the commendation of illencc, would 
 tell us of a Latine faying, That a Fool 
 w^hillt he held his peace did not differ 
 from a Wife man ; but truly I think 
 we may as truly fay. That a wife man 
 whilll he is filent does not differ from a 
 Fool ; for how great foever his Wifdom 
 is, it can neither get him credit, nor o- 
 therwife advantage himfelf, his Friend, 
 nor his Country. But let me not di- 
 vert you from your other point. 
 
 Eng, Gent, The next Reafon I have to 
 make me fear that fuch an Expedient as 
 we have been talking of, will not be pro- 
 pofed fuddenly, is the great diftruft the 
 Parliament has of men, which will make 
 molt Members fliy of venturing at fuch 
 matters, which being very new, at the 
 "^rft motion are not pcrfedly under- 
 ilood, at lead to fuch as have not been 
 ^erfed in Authors who have written of 
 tthe Politicks ; and therefore the Mover 
 may be fufpeded of having been fet on 
 
 by 
 
[267] 
 
 by the Court Party to puzzle them, and 
 fo to divert, by olfering ntw Expedients, 
 fome fmarr mettlefoine Debates they 
 may be upon concerning the .Succeiloa 
 to the Crown, or other liigh matters: 
 for it is the nature oFall Popular Ccun- 
 fels ( even the wifell that ever were, wit- 
 nefs the People of Rory;e and Jt/ye^y'^ 
 which MichLivil fo much extols) in 
 turbulent times, to like difcourfes that 
 heigluen their Paiiions , and blow up 
 tJieir Indignation, better tlian them that 
 cndcavour to rcciifie their Judginents, 
 and tend to provide for their lafety. And 
 the truth is, our Parliament is very much 
 to be cxculed, or rather juRificd in tins 
 chilruit they have ofPcrfons, fince there 
 hath been of late fo many and fo fucccfs- 
 tul attempts ufed by the late great Mmi- 
 flers, to debaucii the moll eminent Mem- 
 bers of the Commons-Moufe, by Pemi 
 ons and OiIkcs ; and therefore it wou!J 
 wonderfully conduce to the g )od of tlie 
 Common-wealtJi, and to tJie compof nj 
 our diibrdcred 5tate, U there W'^rc: nv.:: 
 pf fo high and unqueflionafle a i?epi?i- 
 tion, that they were above all ^ii p^.-'. 
 and diflrull:, and fo mjght vcniiucrr^ 
 
 U 
 
 'j; 
 
''^ 
 
 [268] 
 
 bold, that is (in this cafe) moderate 
 Counfels, for the faving of their Coun- 
 try. Such men there were in the Par- 
 liament of 1640. at leaft twenty or thir- 
 ty, who having ftood their ground in 
 feven Parliaments, before which in the 
 two laft Kings Reigns had been diflblved 
 abruptly and in wrath, and having refift- 
 ed the fear of Imprifonment and great 
 Fines, for their love to England^ as well 
 as the temptation of Money and Offices 
 to betray it, both inferred by the wick- 
 ed Counfellours of that Age, tending 
 both to the ruine of our jufl Rights, and 
 the detriment of their Mafters Affairs ; 
 I fay, having conflantly, and with great 
 magnanimity and honour made proof 
 of their Integrity, they had acquired fo 
 great a Reputation, that not only the 
 Parliament, but even almoft the whole 
 People fluck to them, and were fwayed 
 by them in Aftions of a much higher 
 nature than any are now difcourfed of, 
 without fear of being deferted, or as we 
 fay, left in the lurch, as the People of 
 France often are by their Grandees, when 
 they raife little Civil Wars to get great 
 Places, which as foon as they are offered, 
 
 they 
 
they lay down Arms, and leave their Fol- 
 lowers to be hang'd ; but altho thefc two 
 reafons of the filence of fome wife men, 
 and the want of reputation in other, does 
 give us but a fad profpeft of our Land of 
 Promife, yet we have one Confiderati- 
 on, which does incourage us to hope 
 better things ere long. And that is the 
 Infallible Certainty that wecannotlong 
 Continue as we are, and that we can ne- 
 ver Meliorate, but by fome fuch Princi- 
 ples, as we have been here all this while 
 difcourfing of, and rhat without fuch 
 helps and fuccours as may be drawn from 
 thence, we muft go from one diflrafti- 
 on to another, till we come into a Civil 
 War, and in the clofe of it be certainly a 
 prey to the King of France ^ who, (on 
 which fide it matters not) will be a Garae- 
 fler, and fweep Stakes at laft ; the World 
 not being now equally ballanced between 
 two Princes alike powerful, as it was du- 
 ring our lafl Civil War ; and if as well 
 this danger, as the only means to prevent 
 it, be underftood in time, (as no doubt 
 it will) we (hall be the happieft and the 
 greateft Nation in the World in a little 
 time 5 and in the mean time, enjoy the 
 
 bed 
 
[ 2.70] 
 
 bed and mofl: juft eafie Government of 
 any People upon Earth. If you ask me 
 whether I could have otier'd anything 
 that I thought better than this, I will an- 
 fwer you as Solon did a Philofopher, who \ 
 askt him whether he could not have made 
 a better Government for Athens ? Yes, 
 but that his was the bcft, that t!ie Peo- 
 ple would or could receive. And now 
 I believe you will bear mc .witnefs, that 
 I have not treated you as a Wile man 
 would have done in filence, biit it is time 
 to put an end to this tittle tattle which 
 has naufeated you for three days toge- 
 ther. 
 
 Nolle Ven. I hope you think better of 
 our Judgments than fo ; but I believe you^ 
 may very w^ell be weary. 
 
 DoB. I am fure the Parifli Prieds arc 
 often thanked for their pains, w^hen they 
 have neither taken half fo much as you 
 have, nor profited their Auditory the 
 hundredth part fo much. 
 
 Eng. Gent, The anfwer to Thank you 
 for your pains, is always, Thank you, Sir, 
 f)r your patience; and fo I do very hum- 
 fely bothof you. 
 
 Nohle 
 
C 271 ] 
 
 Nohle Ven, Pray, Sir, when do yoii 
 leave the Town l 
 
 Em. Gent. Not tiH you leave the 
 Kingdom, I intend to fee you, if pleafc 
 God, aboard the Yacht ^t GrauefetjJ. 
 
 Nolle Ven, I iliould be alhamedtoput 
 you to that trouble. 
 
 En^, Gent. I Jliould be much more 
 troubled if I Ihould not do it ; in the 
 mean time I take my leave of you 
 for this time, and hope to wait on you 
 again to morrow. What, DoUor, you flay 
 to Confult about the Convalefccnce ^ A- 
 die u to you both, 
 
 Do^, Farewell, Sir, 
 
 Nullum numen alcfl fi fit prudent ut 
 
 E IN 19. 
 
ii 
 
 ■■<.^ 
 
 
 ^'*' 
 
fj»i 
 
 ^.. /^•:/-. 
 
 m^ 
 
 '^ 
 
 
 ^^Br