^m fork ^tate (HalliQi of Agrlrultorp At (EataM Initttrattg atljara, N. 1- iCibrary: THE DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARM SYSTEM EVIDENCE OF ME. J. H. GEISDALE, B. Agr DIEECTOR, DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARMS BEFORE THE SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND COLONIZATION 1911-12 Fiinted by Order of Parliament as advance sheets of the Committee's Final Report. LIBKART N. Y. STATE COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE, N.Y. OTTAWA PRINTED BY C. H. PARMELEE, PRINTER TO THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY. 1912 19911—1 Cornell University Library The original of tiiis book is in tine Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924001005242 mii. J. H. GRISDALE, B. AGR. 2 GEORGE V. APPENDIX No. 3 A. 1912 THE DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARM SYSTEM House of Commons, EooM ISTo. 34. Wednesday, February 14, 1912. Tlie Select Standing Committee on Agriculture and Colonization met at 11 o'clock a.m., the Chairman, Mr. Sexsmith, presiding. « The Chairman. — Mr. J. H. Grisdale, Director of Experimental Farms, has kindly consented to addiress the committee on the Tvorking of the Experimental Farms throughout the Dominion. I will now call upon him to address us. Mr. Grisdale. — ^Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, — When asked to give evidence as Director of Experimental Farms before the Select Committee on Agriculture and Colonization, I considered that perhaps I could choose no better subject at this time than that of the present status of the Dominion Experimental Farms and Stations. It is the first occasion upon which I have had the honour of addressing you as Director of these farms, and as there is a new Government and a new Parliament, I shall attempt to give a survey of the Experimental Farm system as it now is, and to indi- cate, as far as I am at present able, the lines of work planned for the future. Many of these are but continuations of work upon foundations already laid; others are in the nature of expansions of former researches, and, in some cases, it is planned to enter into fields of investigation and experiment which have as yet been practically untouched in Canada. THE CENTRAL EXPERIMENTAL FARM, OTTAWA. The Central Farm at Ottawa being the key-stone of the structure, it will help to a better understanding of the whole if I commence with a brief account of the farm here. As its name implies, in addition to carrying on those varietal, cultural, feeding and breeding experiments common to all or certain of the farms, it serves as the head-quarters of the Director and the technical and administrative staff under his control. From here the work of the branch farms are guided and supervised, although the Superintendents of the latter are to a certain extent allowed a free-hand to work out the problems peculiar to their districts. The scientific study of agricultural questions is carried on here by officers having special charge of the various branches of such work. The preparation of reports and bulletins dealing with the results of the investi- gation of agricultural problems is naturally another of the important features of the work at the Central Fann, and the volume of correspondence of the Director, and the officers in charge of the divisions is very heavy. In addition the Central Farm officers as well as the superintendents of the branch farms, give out a great deal of information each year to the farming community by addressing farmers' meetings and lecturing at short courses in connection with some of our agricultural colleges and societies. "r*^^ 19911—14 44 DIBEOTOR, DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 The Central Experimental Farm comprises 4&6 acres, and cost $62,689.71. Ihe present Director is myself. I was appointed Agriculturist in 1899, Dominion Agri- culturist in 1910, and Director on April 1, 1911. The staff includes Dominion Agri- culturist, at present vacant; Dominion Horticulturist, W. T. Macoun, appointed ISO'S, Dominion Cerealist, 0. E. Saunders, appointed 1900; Dominion Chemist, F. T. Shutt, appointed 1887; Dominion Botanist, H. T. Gussow, appointed 1909; Dominion Entomologist, C. G. Hewitt, appointed 1909; Poultry Manager, A. G. Gilbert, appointed 1888; Assistant Poultry Manager, V. Fortier, appointed 1904; Farm Foreman, D. D. Gray, appointed 1906. The Dominion Agriculturist position made vacant by my promotion to the position of Director, has been, on my reconamendation, divided into two positions. We find that the work of supervision and direction of the whole of agriculture on our experimental farms in all parts of Canada is too great for one man, and with the consent of the Hon. Mr. Burrell, a Dominion Animal Hus'bandman and a Dominion Field Husbandman will be appointed, so that in future there will be, as it were, two Agriculturists. In addition, Mr. Burrell has consented to the appointment of an official of the same status to take up the study of forage plants, to be known as Dominion Agrostologist. THE SOIL. The soil of the Experimental Farm at Ottawa includes every grade from heavy clay to light sandy loam, much the larger part being either a dark sandy loam of good quality or a friable clay loam. About 140 acres was virgin soil when the farm was acquired by the Dominion Government. Of the total area, 66 acres is devoted to the Arboretum, 35 to lawns and buildings and 21 to forest belts, the remainder being allotted to the experimental work of the different divisions, with the exception of 200 acres which are devoted to what is called the ' 200- acre farm' which is under the supervision of the Dominion Agriculturist and is conducted on a money-making basis. It is of every imaginable description as any one who has driven over it in the summer knows. LIVE STOCK. In live stock we have horses with which we have been carrying on breeding experiments, and studying the best methods of feeding them for different kinds of work. I need not enter into an account of the experiments. I have submitted the results to you on previous occasions, and they have appeared in bulletin form as well. As regards cattle, we have been carrying on experiments with such different breeds as Ayrshire, Canadian, Guernsey, Jersey and Holsteins, and have gained very valuable information, much of which has appeared from time to time in the reports and in bulletin form. We have now in the press a bulletin on Dairying Cattle which we think will be of very great value indeed to the farmers in this country. In the matter of beef cattle, we have been studying the raising of these from birth to the block, studying the different methods of feeding them at different stages, the comparative value of the breeds, and we have now in our pens four of the best breeds, seven or eight in each lot. We have tried every known feed, both the rough- age and concentrated for beef feeding purposes and w6 have been feeding steers of various ages. Swine are kept in large numbers, including Yorkshires, Berkshires and Tam- worths. We have small flocks of sheep on the farm, as well as the other lines of live- stock mentioned, Leicesters and Shropshires being the breeds selected. We took these as being representative of modern requirements, because of course we found it impog- THE DOMIXION EXPERlilEyTAL FARM SYSTEM 45 APPENDIX No. 3 sible to keep representatives of all the many breeds of sheep. They are handled as a commercial flock. We are also carrying on more or less experimental feeding work with lambs. We find that lambs bought in the fall, even at highest market prices and fed during the winter with the common feeds that are found on our Canadian farms, and sold at different times in the Spring, have left us a good margin. For instance, last year on 30 lambs we cleared up a dollar and a half on each lamb. The year before we did just about as well, and the prospects are that we are going to do as well this year with our lambs if prices keep up. THE D.\ffiY. We have on the farm a small dairy building where we manufacture our milk and send it out in the form of butter and "various small cheese — such as chedder cheese, cream cheese and Coulommier cheese. These cheese as well as the butter, we sell in the local market here, many of them being to private customers. Our aim in this dairy is to show the average farmer, who is remote from the creamery or cheese factory, what can be done on the farm. Just to give you an idea of the possi- bilities of the profit where opportunities are right, we make in connection with our cheese about $3 a hundred for our milk — that is for the cream and Coulommier cheese. With the chedder cheese, made in small sizes and handled to the best advan- tage, we make a little over $2 a hundred. I do not say that every farmer can- do that, but it shows the possibilities for a man who had a fair sized herd of cows and was not conveniently situated for shipping this milk. I may say that I am trying to introduce this kind of work at various of our branch farms to demonstrate to the farmers all over Canada what can be done. CROP PRODUCTION. Witli respect to the cost of crop production, crop rotation, methods of soil culti- vation, forage crops, varieties, • methods and agricultural implements. In my evi- dence before you last year I took this question up very fully and I need not enter into the subject again now. I might say, however, that our work last year continued along these lines has given further proof of the importance of thorough cultivation and of' the advisability of using as large machines as the farmer can handle on his farm. True, the conditions are not always suitable for the introduction of the largest machines, but I am confident that on the average farm in Canada we could use a much larger machine than is at present the case. We introduced, as you will possi- bly remember, rotation work at the Experimental Farm here some twelve or thirteen years ago. This work is being continued, varied to a certain extent, but every one of our rotations has indicated the importance of this line of exi)eriment, showing us that the average farmer could make very much better use of his land than is at present the case. If I remember aright, in my evidence before you last year I stated that the average farmer spent about $10 an acre in the cultivation of his land, and according to the Census and Statistics Bulletin he received $15.50, making a clear profit of between five and six dollars. Now, at the Experimental Farm our cultural operations cost us $11.77, and our crop return was $45.47 per acre, as contrasted with $10 and $16.50 for the average farmer. We have therefore a net profit of $33.70 as compared with six or seven dollars on the average farm in Eastern Canada. I just mention this to show that we are continuing this line of work and to remind you of the possibilities of the average farmer if he would pay as close attention to details to the lowering of the cost and to the thorough cultivation of the soil — as he might, and as I regret to say he does not, in too many cases. 46 DIRECTOR, DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 HORTICULTURE. At the Experimental Farm also we are studying methods of growing different classes of trees; we are testing, out varieties of apples and we are producing new varieties. Our Horticulturist, Mr. Macoun, by cross breeding has during the last few years produced some thousands of varieties, and we are testing them out. As soon as we find a good one we propagate it and give it a more thorough test. If after first fruiting the apple tree proves to be of small value it is relegated to the brush pile and nothing more is done with it. In that way, Mr. Macoun was telling me the other day, we have produced some hundred odd varieties which ^how great possibilities and amongst the number there are about twenty which are superior to anything com- monly grown in this eastern part of Canada. Then we are carrying on experiments with, small fruits. Further, every vegetable that has any reputation or that we think is possible of improvement and should be experimented with, we have taken up and are working with it. We also have ornamen- tal plants that are being experimented with. FORESTRY. We have, as already stated, a large area devoted to forestry, and this work is now becoming very interesting. All of you gentlemen that are interested in re-foresta- tion could not spend half an hour to better advantage than by taking a trip round our forest belts some time next spring. CERE.4L BREEDING. In the cereal division we have much work going on particularly in the breeding of wheat. Remarkable progress has been made here, and we have produced varieties of wheat whigh are much earlier, of better quality, and produce larger crops than anything that has been introduced here from other countries. For instance, there is the famous Marquis wheat, about which you have all undoubtedly read recently — the wheat that won the $1,000 prize in New York. The seed for that very sample came from the Experimental Farm here. The grain distribution is also under the immediate charge of Dr. Saunders of the Cereal Division. FARM CHEMISTRY. In the Chemical Division we are carrying on valuable work with feeds, fertilizers and soils, in order to advise the farmer as to the best feed to use and the best fertilizer to apply to his soil, and what is required by each field judging by this chemical analysis. We have also carried on there the chemistry of the health of animals branch. BOTANY. The division of botany has for chief Mr. H. Gussow. Mr. Gussow has to do with the identification of the flora of Canada, he is in charge of the aboretum, which occupies an area of about 65 acres, and looks into the plant diseases as well as does some work with forage crops. ENTOMOLOGY. The chief officer of the division of entomology is Dr. 0. Q. Hewitt. As you know insect pests are found in every part of the world and just at present we have several problems on our hands in this connection. This division has a great deal of work ahead of it and we ask the public to co-operate with the Government in this matter. THE DOMiyioy EXPERIMENTAL FARM SYSTEM 47 APPENDIX No. 3 Dr. Hewitt will probably have an opportunity of appearing before you and discussing some of the pests which are at the present moment so threatening in their aspect as to make us fear for the future of certain parts of our country. In the poultry division we have Mr. Gilbert, . who has been before you many times, and who continues to work hard. BUILDINGS AXD EQIIPJIENT. Our farm buildings, with the exception possibly of the sheep building, are equal, if not superior, to anything else of the kind in Canada. We try to make our build- ings models up to which the average farmer can come — not necessarily the same size, not necessarily quite so extensive and so expensive in some respects — but built along such lines as to indicate to him the best thing to do. For instance we have a pig- gery that is undoubtedly the best in Canada. It is perfectly dry in the coldest weather, and it is as free from all smells as any piggery could possibly be. We have a cow stable which ranks amongst the best. Our horse stable is a model. We have plans of these buildings and the demand for these plans has become so great that with the permission of the minister we are getting out a bulletin dealing with plans and specifications for farm buildings, which will soon be at the disposal of the public, probably in three or four months. PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND FARM, CHARLOTTETOWJJ. So much for the Central Experimental Farm. We have farms in each of the jirovinces. Beginning with the easternmost province, that of Prince Edward Island, we have one at Charlottetown which is located on the southeast side of the corporation limits of that city, along the east side of the Prince Edward Island Railway. This property was acquired from private owners by the Provincial Government of Prince Edward Island in 1909 and leased to the Dominion Government to be used as an Experimental Station. The total area is 65-8 acres, and it was made up of seven small holdings. One of these, known as the east part of the Johnson property, although conveyed to the Government, is held by a private owner until the expiration of his lease in 1917. The area now being used as an experimental station is 59 acres. Towards the purchase of this property the Dominion Government contri- buted $3,292.50. B'j/ Mr. Armstrong: Q. I would like to ask whether it is possible for us to make some inquiries with reference to the remarks that have been already made? A. Certainly, as far as I am concerned. Q. I know you have a lot of material there and there will not be any opportunity later if you have to cover the whole of that material in the course of an hour. A. The remainder of my address will not occupy so long a period as that. The first part of my subject necessarily Had to be general and comprehensive. Q. I would like to ask a number of questions and one is what means are being used at the present time for the distribution of material such as you have given us this morning? A. Do you mean the details of what we are doing? Q. Yes. Ton have given us a lot of valuable data with reference to the Experi- mental Farm and what you are doing there. Now, what knowledge does the aver- age farmer possess of your operations there. 48 DIRECTOR, DOMINIOW. EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 A. Well, to begin with, we publish bulletins dealing with the different lines of work carried on. Q. How are these bulletins distributed? A. They are distributed to anyone who asks, or to anyone that we know is interested in the matter. We have an extensive mailing list embracing some seventy odd thousand names. We cannot possibly send the bulletins out to everyone, because in the first place we do not know the names and addresses of everyone, and in the next place many persons are not interested in the subject dealt with. If a member of Parliament, for instance, sends in a list of a hundred or two hundred names of farmers that he thinks would be interested in these bulletins, we put them on the mailing list and then their names are retained. By Mr. Proulx: Q. Names are sent to you by Secretaries of Farmers Institutes in addition? A. Yes. To every man whose name we get whether he is a farmer or not, we send these bulletins. By Mr. Arrmtrong : Q. Is there no means of advertising such matters as you have given us this morning in some of the weekly papers, for instance the agricultural press ? A. We do not advertise. Q. I mean giving notice that these bulletins are at the disposal of anyone who wishes to apply for them. A. We do not advertise but everyone knows that the farms exist and that tbese bulletins are published. We advertise the distribution of grain and many applica- tions for bulletins come in that way. We do everything we can to distribute as great a number of bulletins as possible. I may say that the edition of the different bulletins and reports are increasing annually. A few years ago we issued about 45,000. Now we are asking for 100,000 copies of each edition, so you see the distribution is increasing very rapidly. SEED GRAIN DISTRIBUTION. By Mr. Thoburn: Q. I would like to ask you about the distribution of grain. As I understand, the plan is now that a farmer can only get one sample. A. That has been the plan for many years. Q. I brought that to the notice of the Ex-Minister of Agriculture in order to ascertain if it would not be possible for a farmer to get more than one sample. I will give you the reason of that: you start with a sample of wheat this year, then next year you get a sample of oats, the following year you get a sample of peas, the fourth year you get a sample of barley and the year following a sample of potatoes. So you see it takes five years before you can get a complete sample. I do not know whether you could give five samples, but I certainly would give more than you vlo now — two or three at least — and in that way a man would not have to wait so long in order to obtain a complete sample. A. I might say that that very question is being considered by the Honourable the Minister, and the staff of the Experimental Farm, at the present moment. When the distribution was being arranged for this year, we discussed it quite fully and decided that it would be inadvisable to make a change this year, but we propose putting it into operation at a later date. Q. Why would it not be advisable this year? A. If you will just wait a moment I will tell you. We are putting into operation certain restrictions, that is we are asking the man who applies for a sample, to tell us something about his present crop. If he asks us for a sample of wheat we ask him: ' What kind of wheat are you growing, what has been your success in the past, and TEE DOMISIO:V EXPERIlIByTAL FARM SYSTEM 49 APPENDIX No. 3 what kind of soil have you? We know the climatic conditions so we don't have to ask him ahout them. But we ask him to tell us, if he can, what crop was in the field the year before. We find many farmers ask for a sample without paying any atten- tion to those conditions which either make or break that sample, whereas we find that if the farmer is to get the best result he must sow his. crop under the best conditions and he must show more interest in, the matter. To those farmers who apply and do not give the desired information we write asking them to supply the deficiency, and then we can select the best variety. We have this year for distribution such good varieties as Red Fife and, Marquis. We say to each applicant that we will send him a sample suitable for his district. Of course we tell him that if he does not make us acquainted with the conditions on his farm we cannot pick out the best sample for him. We thought that if we consented to the distribution of more than one sample to each applicant this year it would simply complicate matters, and so it was decided to try to make this improvement before we experimented with others. B-y Mr. Armstrong: Q. You have given the Committee to understand that you have been making a profit of $33 per acre on the field crop. A. No, I did not. Q. What statement did you make then? A. I said that taking the prices of the Census and Statistics Bulletin that would be the advantage which our farm would hold as compared with the average farmer. We do not estimate our crops at the same prices as the census ofiicer does. I do not know where it got its figures, but the ones I quoted were those given in the Census Bulletin. Q. Yes, but judging by the remarks you made this morning the average farmer on reading the report would be given to understand you could make $33 profit whereas he eoidd only make $5. A. I did not say that he could only make a profit of $5. What I said was that according to the prices he received as set forth in the Census and Statistics Bulletin he only received a profit of between five and six dollars. Q. I do not think you made that statement sufficiently explicit. The average farmer would be beginning to wonder how you are going to accomplish this achievement ? A. I have all the data here and I gave full details to the Committee last year. They are to be found in the printed report of my address, and if you like I will send you a copy, but there is no object, that I can see, in repeating these statements every year. Q. Just another question. You gave the Committee to understand that the farmers would make $2.50 a hundTed for milk. A. No, I said that we did ; I did not say that the average farmer could. Where the farmer's conditions are favourable, that is if he has a market for this kind of thing and manufactures the milk on his farm, he can do it ; but I say that the farmer who is near some cheese factory or creamery should not do that unless he has a very large dairy, when he might find it profitable to do it on his own premises. Q. Unless he is a very large operator, and can find it profitable to do it? A. The average farmer will find it advantageous to send to the cheese factory or creamery. Q. But the average man would like to know how you can make $2.45, while he is only able to make 80 cents or 90 cents. By Mr. Paul: Q. If you realize that $2.00 a hundred for your milk, at what price do you sell the cheese and where is your market, A. It is purely local. 50 DIRECTOR, DOMINION. EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 Q. What is the average price? A. 18 to 19 cents. Q. And you realize about $2.00 a hundred, and that is without the cost of manu- facture. The average farmer is getting 80 and 90 cents a hundred and he gets the information that you can realize $2.00 a hundred? A. I think I made it clear that that is what our cheese brought in the market. It is a very special thing. Q. You are not taking in the price of manufacture, either? A. No. These are very small cheeses which a man buys in the block, and they are kept a long time. I probably should not have mentioned these prices, it pro- bably was a mistake. We have under consideration a plan which will bring many of these facts right home to the farmer at his own door. I am not at liberty to speak of it, but will ask you just to let this matter rest for the moment, and I hope that when I come before you again I shall be able to give you an outline of what, we are trying to do. We are discussing it in the Department, and we hope that something will be done along this line. I appreciate what you say, indeed these are the very arguments that I am using to advance the very line of work I am trying to get under way. I am very glad to see that the members are of the same opinion, that we must get right to the farmer on his farm. It is a good thing to send a ^naii a bulletin, but it is better to show him right on his farm what can be done and what should be done, and that is what we are going to try to do. BRANCH FARM OHARLOTTETOWN, P.E.I. The Superintendent of the farm in Prince Edward Island is Mr. J. A. Clarke who has been in charge since the establishment of the station in 1909. We are carry- ing on a little work with live stock, we have a fejv cattle and a number of sheep. Sheep-feeding is, I consider, one of the necessary lines of work all over Canada and we are trying to introduce it on as many farms as we can. We are feeding thirty sheep in different ways there, and Mr. Clarke informs me that they are doing very well. I do not need to go into the details, however. We are carrying on a lot of work in rotations, and cultural methods. Eotation work is exceedingly important all over Canada, and we have now rotations on every farm in order to show the farmers the importance of following crops with certain others in the right place and in the right crop succession so as to get the best results. We are doing this on every farm, and I have no doubt it will prove effective if fol- lowed by the farmers in building up their farms. We are growing all the forage crops in which the average farmer should be interested. We are testing the different varieties of grain and so on, and we are carrying on work in horticulture, growing apples, cherries and plums. We are study- ing methods of orchard treatment, suitable for conditions as they exist in that part of the country, we are working with vegetables and small bush fruits, and carrying on general experimental work done there. The buildings that have recently been put up include a barn, an implement shed, and a house. The farm is now in good shape to carry on the work that an experi- mental station should carry on, with this exception, that in my opinion it is rather small. Though we bought 65 acres, we are at present occupying only 59 as part of the land will not come into our possession for five or six years yet, and I think the farm could be advantageously enlarged. BRANCH FARM NAPPAN, N. S. The next farm, going west, is the farm at Nappan, N.S. It is in the County of Cumberland, and it includes 300 acres of which 45 acres are made up of dyke lands 120 of cultivated up land and 135 acres of wooded and rough up land. The farm was purchased in 1888, and the Superintendent is Mr. E. Eobertson. It is situated on THE nOiflNION EXPERIMEKTAL FARM SYSTEM 51 APPENDIX No. 3 the line of the I.C.E., in fact the I.C.K. traverses it, and the soil consists chiefly of clay loam ranging from heavy to light Trith some parts gravelly. There we are carry- ing On work with live stock. We have horses which are being fed experimentally, beef cattle, about 50 head at present, and we have a herd of graded cows which we are breeding up in two ways. We are taking a herd of cows such as we can buy from the average farmer and we are breeding them up along Ayrshire and Holstein lines to show what can be done. This work has been advocated for many years, but I do not know of a single instance where a really valuable experiment has been conducted of accurate records being kept throughout, and we hope to get some information that will be of value not only to the Maritime Province farmer, but to every dairy farmer in Canada. We have sheep, a few Shropshires and Leicesters. and we have also swine and j)Oultry. On this as on other farms we are studying methods of soil cultivation and crop production, and we have three or four rotations. In horticulture we have done a good deal. This farm is not situated in the best horticultural district of the Maritime Provinces, but it is astonishing what we have been able to do in the production of fruit here. In one orchard surrounded by forest, it has been found possible to produce almost as good fruit as in the Annapolis Valley. We also grow a few apples, pears and plums, and have all the small bush fruits under experiment, and likewise with vegetables and other horticultural products. We have a good stable which we are improving this year, and we are making a cow byre. BRANCH FARM KENT^LLE. N.S. We have recently purchased a farm in the Annapolis Valley at Jientville. This farm consists of 240 acres. It was purchased by the province and handed over to the Dominion Government last year, and has since then been under a foreman who has been at work clearing up the land, which was practically all under forest or scrub. We have been fortunate in securing a superintendent for the farm, Professor J. W. Crow of the Ontario Agricultural College who has already made a name for himself in connection with agriculture in this province. We think that he will be able to do much to advance the interests of the fruit growing industry in that part of the country. I cannot say much about this farm as it is merely in the way of being cleared up at present. There are no buildings of any value excepting a house, which may be repaired. STE. ANNE DE LA POCATIERE, QUE. Coming on to Quebec we have a farm at Ste. Anne de la Pocatiere. This farm is situated on the I.C.R. and close to the Eastern Agricultural College of that Province. The soil is a heavy clay for the most part, the land ascending as it goes south and coming to a hill which it climbs and where the soil is of a lighter character. This great variety of soil will enable us to carry on experimental work of many kinds. On it also we have not yet begun operations for the reason that we have no superin- tendent. It is proposed to begin building operations and to get a superintendent at once. BRANCH FARM, CAP ROUGE, QUE. The next farm we have in Quebec is at Cap Rouge, a small village some ten miles west of Quebec city. This farm is very beautifully situated on the St. Law- rence and is reached by Grand Trunk Pacific and the C.N.E., and a macadamized road from Quebec. It consists of 326 acres, of which about 160 are under cultivation. The property was boiight from Mr. Gustave A. Langelier who had been running it as a farm of his own for some ten or twelve years, and had made a name for 52 DIRECTOR, DOMINION. EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 tamself as a farmer all over the Province of Quebec and part of Ontario. When we bought the farm we were looking around for a superintendent and Mr. Langelier applied. We did not know any better man for the position and accepted him as superintendent. He has proved a very satisfactory man indeed. The soil on this farm is a clay loam, with rather a stiff sub-soil in many places. It is, however, practically all susceptible of cultivation and is being rapidly brought under the plough. That is we have already 160 acres and we expect soon to have 3'00 acres of arable land on that farm. We are carrying on there much live stock woyk of all kinds, horse breeding, dairy cattle breeding, we have already a number of Yorkshire swine and we are introducing sheep. Dairy cattle being the largest industry in the Province of Quebec we do not anticipate doing much with beef cattle, but possibly something in feeding lines a little later. We have also poultry and we will carry on there experiments in field agriculture. We will study methods of soil cultivation, crop- rotation, forage crop production, drainage and clearing land. It is essential that in the eastern part of the province crop rotation should receive more attention from the average farmer, and we are doing everything we can do to put ourselves in a position to say that such and such a rotation is the one best adapted for the locality from which the man applies for information. We have as many as nine rotations at different places and we have sixteen at the Experimental Farm here, in order to decide the most suitable rotation for a given district. In horticulture we are also carrying on extensive experiments at Cap Rouge. We have already about 200 trees out and have a lot more ready to set out next spring. We are devoting quite a large area of this farm to horticulture since this has been somewhat neglected, especially in the eastern part of the province of Quebec, and we nope to be in a position to say what a man should not do if he is anticipating plant- ing trees. The same with small fruits and with vegetables, and we are also at work on ornamental grounds. This farm lends itself particularly well to work with ornamental plants and trees as there is quite a steep hillside running down to the St. Lawrence where the work can be carried on. When this farm was bought there were a large number of buildings which were suitable for experimental purpose, so it is not so necessary to add very largely to the establishment there. BRANDON EXPERIMENTAL FARM. The next farm — skipping the Experimental Farm, which we have already taken up — is Brandon. The farm at Brandon is located chiefly on section 2Y of township 10, range 19 west of the first meridian. It consists of about Y40 acres of lowland and upland. The lowland is a heavy sedimentary soil. The upland is a lighter loam which has not proved very fertile. However, we are carrying on rotation work on this, soil and find that with proper cultivation and following the right rotation we can get good results from it. CROP ROTATION. By Mr. Bchaffner: Q. What rotation are you following? A. In Brandon? Q. Yes. A. We have nine different rotations there. We are following a four year rota- tion. We have two different four year rotations. Then we have one five year rota- tion, two six year rotations, an eight year rotation and an eleven year rotation. The eleven year rotation is so long because alfalfa enters into it and we leave the alfalfa down for five or six years. We find alfalfa does very satisfactorily indeed at Brandon- TEE DOMTyiOW EXPERIMENTAL FARM SYSTEM 63 APPENDIX No. 3 Q. Are you growing on the high land or on the low land? A. On the low land. Are you familiar with the farm there? Q. Fairly familiar. A. It is on the south side of the road leading across from 18th street, as you turn towards the farm buildings. By Mr. Staples: Q. Are you carrying on experiments with stock? A. I was just coming to that, sir. We have live stock there of various classes. We have a dual purpose Shorthorn herd, a flock of sheep, a herd of swine — York- shires, Tamworths and Berkshires — and we are also working with poultry, and doing some experimental work with horses. We have one unique line of live stock work with which we are not experimenting; that is to say we have Taks there. They are simply on exhibition. They were sent there by some man who was interested in this line of work some years ago hut so far they have not proved very satisfactory. At Brandon we have now about 160 sheep that we are feeding and breeding. SOIL CULTIVATION WORK. We have done a great deal in soil cultivation work on this farm, as well as on the other farms. A year ago I had a reunion of the superintendents of the farms on the western iprairies. We met at Regina and went fully into the question of methods of soil cultivation on all the seven Western farms. We started a series of experiments to determine what was the best method of treating soil in all these lines. I cannot take the time to outline the work we are doiiig along each line, but it occupies quite a large area on each farm and I think it will in a few years give us very valuable data that will enable us to do our work better and will enable the average farmer to do better work on his farm. We are studying methods of work on prairie breaking, depth of ploughing and summer fallow treatment. We are also studying various methods of handling the field after the crop has been harvested and of seeding with grass and clover. Probably one of the most important things on the prairies is getting some of the land down to grass and clover. If we are to pre- vent our soils from blowing on those prairies and to retain the humus in the ground, we must grow more clover? and grasses, so we are carrying on very extensive experi- ments along' that line. Then as to methods of breaking the soil. When you get a field down to hay or clover, you must also study the best way of getting it back to grain, because the grain crop must enter and constitute part of the rotation. Then we are studying methods of applying barnyard manure. That, as everyone admits, is a very important part of farming. But, on those western farms it can be so used that instead of doing an immense amount of good it will cause an immepse amount of harm. By Mr. Thornton: Q. How long have you been experimenting with manure? A. We have been working with manure for years, but this line of experiments, including so many different ways of doing the thing, started last year. Q. What result have you obtained? A. I am unable to give any results yet. The best way I think is to apply it on the surface. Q. Out there? A. Te=, not to bury it. By Mr. Staples: Q. What means are you adopting of disseminating that information amongst the farmers? A. We have not got this information yet. We have bulletins containing our past records but this work that I am outlining now was started only last year. Only 54 DIRECTOR, D03ITKI0N EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 one year's work was done, and that was on uniform soil, under uniform conditions, so that we have nothing comparative as yet. However, we are keeping very careful records. We have put a man in charge of these plots on each farm, and we know exactly what, happens in each case. When you consider that our experiments are carried on at six different farms, under more or less different conditions, we ought to have some valuable information in a few years. Of course, we will get that infor- mation out as soon as we can because the farmer out there is very much in need of it. I became very conscious of that when two years ago I made a trip through the west. I spent the whole summer of 1910 on the western farms Studying conditions, and came to the conclusion that if we were going to do anything effective we must get right down to the foundation of the thing and study it all over those provinces. I am responsible for the inception of these varied lines of work, the cultural investi- gation work as we call it, including some 3,000 different plots where we are studying these different methods of doing things and the rotation work, including 25 different rotations — some of them on all the farms, and some of them on only a few farms — being influenced to some extent by soil and climatic conditions, because while con- ditions are on the whole fairly similar throughout the prairies, there are as you known certain particular districts where the precipitation is greater than in other districts, or put it the other way if you like. Not only are we studying the applica- tion of barnyard manure and green manure, and the turning down of certain crops so as to retain the humus and prevent the soil from blowing, but we are studying seed-bed preparation. This is a very important matter indeed, and one in which many of our farmers in the wcot who are unaccustomed to conditions which exist make mistakes which are responsible for the freezing of the grain and for mighty small crops in many cases, not to mention other evils. Then we are studying the question of soil packers. The soil packer had made its appearance in the west and is there to stay. It is such an important factor in the agriculture of the west that we have devoted some hundreds of plots- to the study of methods of use under different conditions. By Mr. 8chaffner :_ Q. Are you only just beginning experiments with seed beds? A. Not beginning, but we are carrying on these uniform experiments. We have been experimenting in seed bed preparation for many years but we have never adopted any uniformity of plan on our system of experiniental farms. Q. Do you not think it is high time it should be started? A. That is why I did start it. After spending the summer there in 1910 and finding that I was unable to get any data that was conclusive on these subjects, I said, ' The first thing we must do there is to set going a system of experimental work which shall be comprehensive and exhaustive regarding all these different problems,' and that is why this work is under way. Q. We want it practical too. A. It is of a practical character, as you will find if you will visit Brandon or any other station in the west next year. Q. Can you give us any comparative records for the last ten years, of the number of farmers that are visiting these various Experimental Farms, compared with a few years ago ? Is the number of visitors increasing ; are the farmers taking advantage of these farms? A. No, sir, I do not think they are. Q. Have you any record as to that? A. No. Q. Don't you think such a record would be a very useful one?. A. I believe it would. I might say in that connection — ^but I had not thought of mentioning it — ^that last year I persuaded the Hon. Mr. Fisher to permit us to devote a small amount of money to the encouraging of excursions to our farms. We did not TBE DOMINIOlf EXPERIMENTAL FARM SYSTEM 55 APPENDIX No. 3 do anything in that connection at Brandon. The Farm ^t^randon is unfortunately situated. It is about two and a half miles from the station, thus rather inaccessible ; it is quite a transportation problem for the visiting farmer to get from the station to the farm. But we did do something at Indian Head and the efiect was very satisfactory. That is one of the matters we will have to deal with in future, the encouragement of excursions to our farms. Last spring I persuaded the then ^Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Fisher, to permit us to build an auditorium at the Experimental Farm here. When Mr. Burrell came into office he was good enough to confirm Mr. Fisher's permission, so we are proceeding with the auditorium where we can hold live stock meetings, where we can receive excursionists and if necessary make provision for their entertainment of one kind and another. This building will accommodate seven or eight hundred psople. I do not know that we should do the same thing at each of our farms but we have made a commencement. The auditorium is not completed yet, but wiU soon be, and we hope by its means to do a great deal of useful work next summer. We are hoping to continue the work of arranging for excursions to the other farms. In my opinion we should do everything we can to get the general public to visit these farms and this is the line of procedure we are adopt- ing at present, towards that end. By Mr. Armsfrong: Q. What (progress are you making in dry farming in the west? A. That is a very large question. I do not believe I can cover it in the com- paratively short time at my disposal. Q. Ton are not making any material progress, are you? A. We are studying it at our Experimental Farm at Lethbridge, to which I shall refer in a short time if you will permit me to postpone the question. How to complete the branch of the subject with which I am dealing, we are carry- ing on experiments in depth of seeding, commercial fertilizer and under draining. These are minor matters but we are doing more or less work. Mr. S. Chaffner. — They are exceedingly important matters, they are the whole thing. Mr. Grisdale. — Commercial fertilizing and under-draining are not matters of much importance, but I am interested in getting some light upon the influence of under-draining upon these dry soils. Xow to continue with Brandon, I may say that this work is carried on at all the branch farms on the plains, so I need not repeat it. We are testing a variety of cereals, we are growing wheat, and we are producing seed for distribution, we are carrying on forestry work at Brandon, and in horticulture we are doing a good deal. W e have planted thousands of trees there, some on the high lands and some on the low lands. Those on the low lands we find did not do very well, but on the uplands we got along fairly well, and last year some of the trees gave very satisfactory fruit. I would not like to go into that very fully as it is a branch of Mr. !Macoun's work upon which he will be in a position to address you. We have also plums, bush fruits, vegetables, and all sorts of things that have to do with horticulture. We have as part of our equipment there a traction engine. It is the first western Farm to take on a traction engine. We have another at Lethbridge. It has enabled us to do work a great deal more cheaply than by horse power. Of course there are certain difficulties that we need not discuss. That is a matter which the public will take up as opportunities offer and engines improve. By Mr. Staples: ; Q. What is the make of the engine you are operating? A. We have an International. 56 DIRECTOR, DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARMS y J 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 Q. How many horsgjKfwer? A. 20. We have a 40 horsepower here in Ottawa and the same at Indian Head. INDIAN HEADj SASK. The Indian Head Farm comprises section 19, township 18, range 12, west of 2nd meridian and lies a mile and a half from the town of Indian Head. It was bought from the Bell Farm, and the first superintendent was Mr. Angus MacKay, who still occupies that position. Mr. MacKay has, as you all know, made a great name for himself in the west; only the other day at Saskatoon his portrait was unveiled and he was the recipient of many warm expressions of appreciation. Mr. MacKay is undoubtedly one of the most valuable men we have in our service. He is unfortunately getting a little older and speaks of retiring, but we hope to retain his services for some time to come. We are carrying on live stock work there, with cattle, sheep (Shropshires) and swine, and we have the horses necessary to work the farm. We have also a traction engine, the work of which has been satisfactory was we have been able to do the ploughing at about half the cost of doing it by horsepower. By Mr. Thornton: Q. Isi it a gasolene engine? A. Gasolene. Q. Do you use it for seeding,? A. No, just for ploughing. We are carrying on the same lines of rotation, cnhural, varietal and horticultural work as on the other farms in the west. HOSTHEKN, SASK. The next farm is that of Eosthern, about 45 miles north of Saskatoon. It com- prises nearly all of N.W. J sec. 26 tp. 42 rg. 3 west of 3rd mer. The superintendent is Mr. W. A. Munroe. The soil is of a rather light loam, fairly productive when the seasons are favourable. Last year we had very excellent crops of wheat. We have some' five different rotations under experiment, but we have as yet no live stock. Provisoin has been made to erect buildings this year, and when these are conpleted we shall be able to carry on live stock work at this farm. It has been only two years in operation. The first year was a failure owing to the drought and the condition 'of the soil, which had been farmed out previous to its being acquired by the Dominion Government. It was infested with weeds, and it took us over a year to get it into such shape that it would be possible to grow a good crop at all. We are gradually destroying the weeds however, and hope to have a' decent farm in a few years. SCOTT^ SASK. The next farm is that at Scott. It comprises N.E. i sec. lY, and part of S.E. i sec. 20, tp. 39, rg. 20 w. of 3rd. mer. The faj-m buildings were erected a year ago and two years ago this coming summer one hundred acres were broken. Last year we had the first crop, and the results were fairly satisfactory. By an Hon. Meraber: Q. How many acres ? A. 198. The Superintendent is Mr. E. E. Everest. By Mr. Staples: Q. Eather small, isn't it? A. Well, it wap the intention, of the Minister, I mean Mr. Fisher, to carry on merely cultural work, rotation, varietal tests and experiments with cultivation. TBE DOmyiOX f:XPEIilMEyTAL FARM STSTEM 57 APPENDIX No. 3 i Q. Have j'ou as many buildings or about the same equipment as you would have ou a section ? A. We have for some things. We do not have such large buildings, and we have no provision for carrying on live stock work. Wliether we carry on live stock work will depend upon the Minister of Agriculture. Personally I think we should do something with live stock but we have a number of farms where we are carrying on extensive experiments with live stock, and it is just a question whether it is advi- sable to carry them on on these new farms. That remains to be seen. We are doing rotation work, cultural work and also horticultural work on this farm. LETHBRIDGE ALTA. The next station is the one at Lethbridge, situated about one mile from the limits of the city of Lethbridge, and on the line of the OroVs Nest Railway. It comprises south J. sec. 3 and south i N.E. quarter sec. 3, tp. 9, rg. 21, w. of 4th. mer. It thus consists of 400 acres and of these 300 are above the irrigation ditch and 100 below, — that is we have 100 acres of irrigable land. We are therefore in a position- to carry on work both on irrigated and non-irrigated land. On the irrigated land we have done a lot of work with alfalfa, and studied also crop production and cultural methods. On the uou-irrigated area, what might be called the dry-farming part of the land, we are following a number of rotations, and we are going very carefully into cultural methods that are likely to enable us to get good crops even under such adverse conditions as those which obtain there. I may say that last year was a disastrous year there for we had a hail storm. On our dry land at Lethbridge we have been able to produce very large crops of fall wheat. Spring wheat has not done so well. There is no question that following a suitable rotation, some rotation in- cluding a summer-fallow, will enable us to grow satisfactory crops even in those rather adverse conditions as to moisture. We are carrying on work in live stock lines to a limited extent. We have 2.50 sheep on this farm, divided into five groups, feeding one groug) on alfalfa, one on alfalfa and grain, one on alfalfa and roots, another on alfalfa and straw, and another on alfalfa and screenings. By Mr. Thornton: Q. Do you grow alfalfa successfully? A. On all our Experimental Farms — we are not in a position to speak of Scott and Rosthern because they are new farms — but on all the other farms in the west alfalfa is a success. At Indian Head, at Brandon, at Lethbridge, at Lacombe, on every one of these farms alfalfa has been grown very successfully. Q. Is it considered profitable out there? A. It is by far the most profitable forage crop that can be g:rown in the west, there can be no question about that, it produces four to five tons to the acre in a good season and in the worst season we have from three to four tons. Q. That is by how many cuttings? A. By two cuttings, as a rule, but once in a while we can make three cuttings in a season that is especially favourable. We have two bulletins on alfalfa ; we have one for the west and one for the east and the west. Further we send out quantities of soil for the inoculation of fields where it is proposed to grow alfalfa. In a new district alfalfa for a certain time does not seem to do very well, for its successful growth it needs the aid of certain bacteria which enter into the soil and help the plant to grow by forming those nodules on the roots. Xow from the experimental farms we send out 200 pounds of soil, sufficient to inoculate an acre, to any one who wants it. All we ask them is to pay the freight, we furnish the sack and the soil and send it to the station for them, leaving them to pay the freight themselves. We' are doing a good deal with forage crops on these farms and have collected a lot of valuable information 19911—2 68 DIRECTOR, DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 which it is not necessary for me to give you here, but we have demonstrated to our ■own satisfaction, and to the satisfaction of any one who has looked into the matter that it is the best, even on the driest of th«se farms, for producing large quantities ■of forage, suitable for live stock. With Indian corn we have not been able to make a great success anywhere other than Indian Head and Brandon, but com does well some years at Lacombe and on^ce in a while at Lethbridge. At Lethbridge we have' orchards which are not sufficiently advanced yet to give us any yield, but the trees are living there and are growing. We hope at some time we will be able to produce fruit there. LACOMBE, ALTA. The Experimental Station at Lacombe, Alta., is situate at the southeast quarter of Section 24, township 40, range 27, west of the 4th Meridian and is near the town of Lacombe, it is on the line of the Calgary and Edmonton railway, which traverses it, and it is also traversed by the Calgary, and Edmonton trail. The soil is good, although there are one or two light spots on the hiU, which passes through the centre of it. We have produced 140 bushels of oats to the acre, which indicates its quality. We are not carrying on any live stock work there except that each winter we feed a bunch of steers. The feeding is carried on in the open the cattle being fed on a large table in the centre of the yard, and the yard is never cleaned out during the whole season.- Our feeding operations have been very profitable, the first year we made something like $15 or $16 a head, and last year our profits were $29.50, if I remember aright, per head. By Mr. Thornton: Q. Is that net? A. After paying all expenses of the operation, that is labour and feed. The superintendent is Mr. G. H. Hutton, B.S.A. ; a good many of you who' come from the west know him as he has made quite a name for himself in connection with agricul- ture in Alberta. We have started to do some horse breeding work and we have some very good OlydesdaJe mares on the farm. We have also a small orchard and some small fruits. As usual on all our prairie farms they are not la very great success. Some of our apple trees have lived, and we are hopeful that some varieties will come to something. I might say, as a special point of interest, Mr. Chairman, that I had a letter from the Peace Eiver district the other day from a man who said he had received three trees from us some three or four years ago and that one of them fruited this year and gave him some nice little apples, not very large, but it was quite a cheerful thing to look at them in that country, so that the possibilities of apple growing are great when you can grow them in the Peace Eiver district, some hundreds of miles north of Edmonton. We are carrying on cultural work at Lacombe as at every branch farm on the prairies and we have some five or six different rotations now under way. EXPERIMENTAL FARM, AGASSIZ, B.C. Leaving the prairies and coming to British Columbia, the oldest established farm there and about the only one that is really established in that province is at Agassiz, about 70 miles east of Vancouver, in the Eraser valley. This farm up to the present has been given over almost entirdy to horticulture, but our experiments indicate that it is not the most suitable part of the province for fruit growing. We have there- fore given up horticultural work almost entirely on that farm and are taking certain farms in other parts of the province for that purpose. We are converting the farm there into a live stock farm. We sent out last fall a couple of carloads of cattle and we had a model dairy barn built on cheap lines, and yet sufficiently substantial for THE DOMIXIO^' EXPERIMEXTAL FARM S7STEM 59 APPENDIX No. 3 all our requirements, with a good cement floor and perfectly sanitary in every respect, with lots of light and air. We hope to carry on a successful home dairy. This is one point where we are putting in a small dairy and doing the work ourselves, because there are no factories there and we find ourselves compelled to either ship to the city or make on the farm, so we are doing the latter. The farm is very large, there are 1,400 acres in it, but of that 1,400 acres about 1,100 acres are mountain land, so that there are only about 300 acres that can be brought under cultivation.^ About 200 acres is now cleared. By Mr. Taylor: Q. What is the size of the dairy herd you have there? A. We started with 27 milch cows and we have about 35 cattle now, some of them have calves and we are keeping the heifers. We have a stable capable of accom- modating foity head of milch cows. Q. What breed are they? A. They are Holstein grades. Q. Where do they come from? A. They come from near Brockville. Q. Some people out there speak very disrespectfully of these cows? A. They are only grades of course. Q. They say that some of them do not come up to the standard even of the num- ber of teats to each cow. A. I think they will come up to that standard all right, those people will have to count again. I was talking to the superintendent the other day and he said they were very good cows. Do you think that putting a large herd of pure bred registered stock is the best plan to follow in conducting experimental work of that kind ? Q. I am not in a position to say as to that. But the herd you have on the farm there contrasts very unfavourably with the herd of Holsteins recently placed by the British Columbia Government on their farm. The one herd being the admiration of all visitors, the other herd being spoken of in terms of approach. A. Well, of course, you can see that the Dominion experimental farms might serve as a model of what the bigger breeders might do if it were so desired, but my idea is that the experimental farms are for the benefit of the average farmer. Now if we were to put as a herd on that fanp, a bunch of pure bred cattle, the best that could be bought anywhere and do the same as the big breeders do, continue breeding that line we would not in my opinion, serve the interests of the average farmer, because he could not hope to do what we were doing. We are doing the same line of work that we are carrying on in the east, trying to show the farmer who has not a government at his back, what he can do in taking common cows and grading them up by the use of pure bred bulls and making them a profitable herd. I have heard that some of your western men are dissatisfied with the experiment in qiiestion, but I still think, and I fear shall continue to think, that it is the best line of work that can be carried on there. By Mr. Best: Q. Do you think these farms are providing the best illustrations to show the farmers how they can grade up their stock? A. Which farm? Q. Here in Ottawa. We have a report that some cows in Canada will give 10,- 000 lbs. of milk in the year, and yet here at the Genrtral Experimental Farm (i,015 lbs. is the best result you can show. A. That is the average. Q. But surely after 24 years of experiment you ought to be able to show the best results in the Dominion? 60 DIRECTOR, DOMINIOW EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 A. Well, we have good records but they are not all good. When you remember that the average cow in the Dominion gives about 3,600 lbs. a year, and our average goes over 6,000 lbs., that is not a bad showing. Q. There are several herds in Canada that have given very much more than that. A. They have given more milk. Q. Yes. A. What breed were they? Q. Holisteins, I understand? A. Well, we have Jerseys, Canadians and Ayrshires, but we did not have Holsteins until this year. Now we must consider a little more than the quantity of milk. You could say that a pump produces so much water, or something like that, without any reflection on the Hol-steins, but you must consider the quality of the milk as well as tlie quantity, and if you take the average yield in butter you will find that these cows have stood away above the average cow in Canada, and we have made no special effort to do anything beyond what the farmers are doing. It would be an easy matter for any government to purchase $10,000 cows, or $10,000 bulls and work in that way, but I consider that work would be absolutely useless to the average farmer. We want to do what will be of value to the average farmer. We can show the farmer that we i.'an take the average cow and improve it to such an extent as to get good results. Take the Jersey, the Guernsey and the Canadian, and the best records of these breeds are only somewhere around 8,000 pounds — that is when they are mature. We have in our records included all ages, heifers two years old and some under that age. One must use a little judgment in sizing up the situation. It is all very well to say that because a Jersey, or a Guernsey gives 6,000 pounds, therefore she is not nearly as good as the Holstein that gives ten or twelve thousand or twenty-nine thousand — and there are cows in the world that have given 29,000 pounds of milk in the year — but one cannot do that without wilfully overlooking certain well known facts as to the varia- tion in fat content in milk. Q. If there is>any place in Canada where they ought to be able to raise a high standard, it is an institution such as the experimental farm, which has been in existence for twenty-five yeans and with the government at its back. A. Are you in a position to show that the Canadians and the Gurnseys are not in the best of their class ? Q. No. A. Then what do you mean? "* Q. I mean to say this : that the fanners in the Dominion of Canada look to the experimental farm here to get the best results. In twenty-five year I have doubled the production of milk on my own farm. Why is it that although this farm has been in existence for twenty-five years, men who are experimenting in other parts of the country with their cows are getting better results ? A. They are not getting better results. Q. I think if you spent thousands of dollars in buying a thoroughbred bull or a cow, that would not benefit the average farmer much, but you ought to be able to take a cow that is giving a low percentage of milk and butter and at the end of twenty-five j'ears raise the stock to a high standard. A. How? Q. By crossing the breed. A. How? Q. I will give you an example of how I started. A. With what breed? Q. It was a shorthorn milking strain, but it does not make any difference what breed I started with. I tried to breed to the best stods that I could get for milking pur- poses, and in twenty-five years I doubled the total amount of the milk I was getting. What you ought to be able to demonstrate is that you can from a low type breed a very high type of animal. THE DOillXIOX EXPERIllENTAL FXRII SYSTEM 61 APPENDIX No. 3 A. I am very glad to hear these remarks because they support me in what I said a few minutes ago about the lines of work we are carrying on at Xappan and at Agassiz. We have taken common cows and are getting good bulls and trying to build up these herds. ISTow the gentleman also says that the only way to do that is to start with the common cow and improve it. Of course to do so you must have good bulls, you must make a selection, and that is what we did. But the gentleman made the criticism also that because our cows only average 6,000 pouiids, therefore they were no good. He alluded to certain other herds, many of which I have a personal knowledjge of because I have visited them. Xow as to comparison with these good herds, I venture to say to the honourable gentleman that when it comes to butter producing — that is fat content and that is what counts — our 6,000 pound cows will give just as much as the 10,000 pound cows that the honourable gentleman mentioned. Q. I do not want to be understood as criticizing, but I think that the farmers ought to be shown how much butter these cows produce per year and how much milk. A. They are. The milk yield, butter fat yield and food consumption are given for every cow. Q. The farmers ought to be shown how much butter and how much milk is pro- duced on this farm and on the other farms. I repeat that I do not want to be under- stood as criticising, but we want to have this Dominion Experimental Farm the very best in the country. A. I have attempted to make dear what we are attempting to do. We now have a herd of Holsteins at the experimental farm. It is not a very large herd yet, but we hope that we will shortly have some large milk records to entertain the man who looks at the quantity only. We have had dairy shorthorns too, and there were two cows in our herd that gave over 11,000 pounds of milk in a year. Any one that knows anything about cattle knows that some breeds give far more milk of very much higher quality than bthers, and we cannot help that. If a man will take and average up the Jersey, the Canadian, the Ayrshire and the Guernsey and finds that they give only 6,000 pounds of milk a year and pays no attention to the quality of that milk, I cannot help it. I am ready to show that the returns are just as good and better than they are in almost any other herd when it comes to fat. When you take the money producing power of these herds, these little 6,000 pound eow\3 will stand up with the 10,000 pound cows. By Mr. Sutherland: . Q. Have you conducted experiments to determine the cost of production per hundred pounds of the various breeds? A. We have not with the Holsteins yet, because for certain reasons we were not allowed to buy Holsteins until last year. Q. How long have you been conducting these experiments I A. Ten years. Q. Still you do not wish to say that Holsteins are therefore- only fit for produc- ing a large quantity? A. Xo, not at all, but you must not judge only by the quantity. By Mr. Taylor: Q. Xow, to come back to Agassiz, you recommend that herd shown at the experi- mental farm as a standard to be followed for farmers in that neighbourhood? A. Yes, I recommend that line of work. It may be possible to get better grades, but we got the best we could get in this district. Out there the cows sell from $135 to $250, and we get them here for $75 and can get them conveyed out there for less than $100, landed. Q. Do you think they compare with the herds on the neighbouring farms I A. If you refer to the pure bred herd in the district, then I say no for we have not as yet put a pure bred cow on the farm out there. 62 DIRECTOR, DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARMS 2 GEORGE v., A. 1912 Q. I understand they are put on that farm as a standard for the dairymen to follow, and what I am concerned with is whether we are putting a proper standard on the farm for that locality! A. I think we are. By an Hon. Member: Q. I presume you are simply trying to demonstrate to the farmer what can be done under his conditions? A. Yes, it would be an easy matter, and I know the minister would have agreed to our sending out a few of the very best pure breds that could have been bought, but do you think the average farmer could stock up with pure breds. We are doing exactly what the average farmer can do and we are trying to show him on that farm, and on the farms in the east and elsewhere, what he can do, and my opinion is that we can show him that lots of money can be made in impi'oving his herd in that way. Some of the most profitable herds that have ever existed in Canada have been bred up in that way. A few years ago at Tillsonburg there was a disipersal sale of 60-odd head of dairy cows with an average record of about 12,000 pounds. That shows what can be done in that line, for they surpassed any pure bred herd that I know of. An important part of experimental farm work is to show the farmei*how he can do things, and if we were to put up very expensive farm buildings such as have been erected on a farm which I won't mention, but which the member for New Westminster knows, and add a very expensive equipment and stock, I contend we would not be showing the farmer what is the. best line of work for him and consequently the experimental farms would be of no use to him. By Mr. Sutherland: Q. You mentioned the Tillsonburg farm. Did you know that the very best cow in the herd gave over 20,000 lbs., about 2'1,000, she was a grade between Shorthorn and Holstein. A. That was a remarkable yield. This shows there is a lot of valuable work to be done without going to any tremendous expense. I admit we ought to put just as good bulls at Agassiz or on these other farms as we can get at a reasonable price. We do not want to pay $10,000 when we can get really good bulls at a few hundred dollars, and I think the farmers will appreciate that work once they have got away from the idea that we should put up a show place and realize that we are looking at it as a place to learn something from. Of course I am under the direction of the minister, and if he decides that something else should be done it will be done, but I should certainly advise against any very radical change. I certainly advise that we go along as we are doing, at least for a few years, and try to demonstrate to the average farmer what can be done. I might add that a part of the original plan was the adding of a few. pure bred Holstein females to this herd, as "soon as things were well under way. OTHER FARMS IN BRITISH "COLUMBU. We have two or three other stations in British Columbia, one at Invermere. The land has been cleared and partly ploughed and we propose to build very soon. We bought a couple of months ago another station at Sydney. Last year I visited these different places and looked over these farms. Since Mr. Burrell .took office arrange- ments have been made for taking over the farm of about 155 acres near Sydney. It lies between Victoria and Sydney and is traversed by the railroad, while surveys have been made for an electric road to run through the centre of the property, so 'that we will have a farm very accessible to the farmers of the southern part of Vancouver Island. THE DOMINION EXPERIMENTAL FARM SYSTEM 63 APPENDIX No. 3 By Mr. Thornton: Q. How far is it from Victoria? A. About fifteen miles from Victoria and about three miles from, Sidney. Q. Then we have some work being carried on at Salmon Arm. The late super- intendent at Agassiz undertook some work for us and he is carrying it on there. We have also some work going on at Kamloops, which is in the centre of a large ranching country. Mr. Calhoun is carrying on the work for us in orcharding and crop-produc- tion on a small scale. Now, if there are no further questions I think I have completed what I wanted to say. I should be very glad indeed to discuss any matters in connection with our experimental farm at greater length either in public or in private, if any member of the Committee desires me to do so. I am only too anxious that our experimental farm system should be thoroughly understood and that every thing may be done that can be done to advance the interests of agriculture. We may not all hold the same opinions as to what is the best way of doing the work. We cannot all do it in the way we would like but I know that you as members of this Committee and I, after thir- teen or fourteen years experience of this work, are all deeply interested in it and hojpe to_