f\5 SiT^ «f^si 1^- mm ,^CI' New York State College of Agriculture At Cornell University Ithaca, N. Y. Library Cornell University Library HD 6983.AS 1920 Cost of living.Joint hearings before the 3 1924 013 924 513 COST OF LIVING JOINT HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEES ON AOEIOULTUEE AND FOEESTEY CONGEESS OF THE UNITED STATES SIXTY-SIXTH CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION ON COST OF LIVING WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 28, 1920 1 WASHINGTON GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 1920 CONTENTS. statement of— Page. Mr. William R. Petzer S Dr. John Dill Robertson S Mr. Robert S. lies 1 11' Hon. Daniel F. Minahan 22 Dr. Charles V. Craster 22 Mr. Sussell J. Poole ^ 25 2 COST OF LIVING. Committee on Agriculture and Forestry, United States Senate, and Committee on Agri- culture, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C, Wednesday, January ^8, 1920. The committees this day met in joint session, at the hearing room of the House committee, at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. Gilbert N. Haugen (chairman of the House committee) presiding. Chairman Haugen. The committee will come to order. We have with us this morning members of the Committee on Agriculture and Forestry of the Seriate. The committees' have met in joint session in order to hear a number of gentlemen who desire to present their views on certain legislation, more especially, I believe, legislation bearing upon the cost of living. This being a joint meeting of the Senate and House committees I will request Senator Gronna to preside over the meeting. Representative Rainey. Mr. Chairman, just for a moment, the cause of the Chicago delegation waiting on this committee was occa- sioned by a visit that Congressman Juul and myself made while in ^Chicago, being invited over before the city council and we ac- cepted the invitation. The Committee on Health at that time had under discussion the question of the high cost of living, one that has aggravated not only the city of Chicago but our great ■country. They suggested that at a later date they might desire to come on to Washington and lay before this committee some informa- tion and data they had gathered. We signified our willingness to arrange everything for them, and I now take occasion on behalf of Congressman Juul and myself to thank the Chairman and the mem- bers of this committee for the opportunity given the representatives from Chicago to be heard. I understand that the scope of their committee has been enlarged, and that some health officers and men interested in this question have joined them. Therefore, there are people here from all over the country. The Chicago contingent is hefided by Dr. Robertson, the Commis- sioner of Public Health, who has associated with him Mr. Russell J. Poole, the Director of the Bureau of Foods,^ Markets, and Farm Products, of Chicago, and the legal expose or analysis of the situation will be presented by Judge lies, of Chicago. I think the committee has arranged for Dr. Robertson, Mr. Poole, and Alderman Fetzer, who is chairman of the committee, to be heard. Whatever other ar- rangement they have at the time I think they will be glad to inform the committee. They have studied this question very earnestly and 3 4 COST OF LIVING. they have some ideas that they wish to unfold, and have come to Washington asking for Congress to help the people of Chicago, who are greatly disturbed over the question of the high cost of the neces- sities of life. They are going to try to unfold some ideas here ask for legislation to help reduce the cost of living. I am not going to take up any time other than to suggest that the gentlemen I have already mentioned are reinforced by Alderman Jackson, Alderman Frank Klaus, Alderman Samuel O. Shaffer, Alderman Stanley H. Kunz, Alderman Matthew Franz, Alderman Edward E. Armitage, and Alderman A. O. Anderson, and also Dr. Craster, of New Jersey, in whom Congressman Minahan is very much interested. He is here and wishes to be heard. I know the gentlemen from Chicago, particularly the aldermen who reinforce the commit- tee, can more forcibly and practically suggest what they are here for, and on behalf of Mr. Juul and myself I want to thank the Members from Illinois who have consented to be with us this morning, and again thank the committee. I do not know whether Congressman Juul has anything to suggest or not. Mr. JinjL. I have nothing to say, Mr. Chairman. The whole case has been properly presented by my colleague, Mr. Rainey. I can only say this, that before you gentlemen close the meeting I hope an opportunity will be given the gentlemen who are here from other States. I have not their names, so I suggest that they be handed in. Representative Eainet. I think, Senator, that Alderman Fetzer, the chairman of the committee can probably best state the attitude of the Chicagoans with reference to the time. Chairman Geonna. Gentlemen, I want to say just a word. We came here to meet with the committee of the House, because on former occasions the members of this committee of the House have been kind enough to meet with us. I am very glad to have an oppor- tunity to hear these distinguished men discuss this important sub- ject. I do not want to make a speech, but I simply want to throw out a few thoughts of my own, and I think I may saj' that I believe they are shared by the committee, to some extent. Speaking^ for myself alone, I have always thought, and I have always believed that the only way we can remedy this present situa- tion is to work a little harder, work longer hours, and if you can not work longer hours, to be more efficient while we do labor and thus be able to produce more. I mention this for this reason. I hope that you people from the great city of Chicago do not come here with the idea that the high cost of living is due entirely to the high prices of the natural products. I know you will touch upon that phase of it, probably. If we can produce more cereals, produce more bogs, produce more cattle and sheep, naturally they will be cheaper, and I think that applies to all kinds oTf foods. I might also say that I have thought very seriously of another propositioii. I think here in the United States we are having too many commissions, we are employing too many people who make it their business to find out what the other fellow is doing. Now, if w© should do that among the farming communities of the country we would be absolutely up against it, if you will pardon that slang phrase, because out on the farm, especially where I come from, we have to. get together and work and produce. COST OF LIVING. 5 I am very glad to have an opportunity to preside over this meet- ing and I shall be glad to hear from any gentleman who may wish to present his views on this important subject. STATEMENT OF MR. WILLIAM R. FETZER, CHAIRMAN COMMIT- TEE ON HEALTH OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF CHICAGO, ILL. Mr. Fetzee. Mr. Chairman, some few months ago the city council of Chicago in its wisdom thought it might be advantageous to th& citizens of Chicago particularly to create what we call the bureau of foods, markets, and farm products. The duties of that body or bureau were clearly defined. At that time the councilmen of Chicago had no means of ascertaining just what the exact figures and data were with reference to imports, exports, and the food situation right there in our own cify, and therefore the city council created that bureau, and the mayor of Chicago appointed a director of that bureau, and we have with us to-day Mr. Russell J. Poole, the director, and the attorney, Judge lies. Judge lies has gone into this situation from the data secured by this committee, and, together with the health committee, has gone over what we consider the essential neces- sities for legislation that might tend to reduce the cost of living. I wish to thank the Congressmen here, Congressmen Rainey and Juul for making it possible for us to appear before you, and on behalf of the committee we wish to thank you gentlemen for giving us this'opportunity to be heard at this time, and conferring with you on one of the most talked-of topics confronting the American people to-day — for the privilege, I wish to extend to you our heartfelt thanks and our deep appreciation of the high honor. When the city council of the city of Chicago created the bureau of foods, markets, and farm products it granted that bureau authority and power to secure data with reference to the receipt and distribu- tion of foodstuffs in Chicago, and also authorizing it to secure evi- dence with which to prosecute so-called " profiteers " in food prod- ucts who were, in our judgment, charging illegal, excessive, and ex- tortionate prices for food products, and although this bureau has been in operation only about four months, yet during this short space of time it has been able to secure valuable information with refer- ence to foodstuffs profiteering, which we have submitted to United States District Attorney Clyne; and this committee is proud of the fact that the evidence which it has been able to submit to the dis- trict attorney has been suiRcient to indict and convict some 30 differ- ent persons, firms, and corporations. But notwithstanding the noble work and efforts of this worthy association, the honorable district attorney at Chicago informed them that there was not sufficient Fed- eral legislation with which to prosecute these offenders of the law, and only after a great deal of newspaper publicity and urgent de- mands on the part of the public press of Chicago did the Government finally realize the necessity of some action on its part to stem the tide of the ever-increasing cost of daily living, with the net result that three of the cases presented by this bureau finally resulted in indictments being returned against the offenders by the United States grand jury.. Realizing thhe extreme gravity of the situation and the urgent ne- cessity for quick action, the city council of the city of Chicago, 6 COST OF LIVING. about four weeks ago, unanimously authorized and directed the com- mittee on public health, of which committee I have the honor of being chairman, to proceed to Washington at its earliest convenience, and that the Hon. Rtissell J. Poole, Director of the Bureau of Foods, Markets, and Farm Products, the Hon. John Dill Robertson, com- missioner of health of Chicago, and the Hon. Robert S. lies, attorney for the said Bureau of Foods, Markets, and Farm Products, should accompany the committee to Washington, and through the kind ef- forts of Congressmen John W. Rainey and Neils Juul, my committeer and these gentlemen accompanying us are enabled to meet you to-day and calmly discuss with you these vital subjects, feeling assured as we go ahead with this discussion that you gentlemen are as equally interested as we are. Our country is confronted to-day, gentlemen, with this high cost of living problem, and we aldermen of Chicago and the other gentlemen, by reason of our coming daily in contact with the masses of people — the people who by the sweat of their brow operate our business life — are in a position to better know how this high cost of living problem is affecting the people generally than you are. Daily we hear the various complaints of the citizen, and daily we secure from these same people their opinion on the status of affairs in every-day life as affected by the high cost of living problem; and as we have daily witnessed the onward march of the high cost of living without a cor- responding advance in salaries and financial gain and advancement to the average citizen, we are necessarily obliged to ask ourselves the question : What is the primary cause of the present high cost of liv- ing? How did it originate and what is the remedy? Shall it be permitted to keep on going higher and higher, and if so, when and where will it end ? It is^ gentlemen, a most serious problem. With a great many, it is of little consequence and no concern. But with the father of five, seven, or eight children — all to clothe — all to feed — it means much, and when it shall have reached a point where it gets beyond the control of the father with his five, seven, or eight little ones, starvation stares him in the face and then it becomes a very- serious problem. Only a short time ago, in Chicago, it was a physical impossibility for the average man or woman to get one-half pound of sugar, and yet confectioners and other merchants were enabled to buy five, ten, and fifteen thousand pounds of sugar at a time. The poor mother with her infant in her arm was denied this necessity of life, while the candy maker could buy all he wanted. Personally, on several occasions, I made investigations of the sugar question in my home ward and found conditions as represented. Not only has the sugar (juestion been acute, but the price of every other necessary food prod- uct and wearing apparel has advanced to a point almost beyond the reach of the average man or woman. The question, then, naturally follows: What ar6 you gentlemen of the Congress of the United States doing to alleviate the suffering of mankind growing out of this unfortunate situation? Daily I am approached by my con- stituents of my ward on this subject and daily I hear from these same constituents that it is high time that we had a new deal and elect an entirely new set of Congressmen and Senators. They feel that you, gentlemen, are not doing your full duty, in that no positive and COST OF LiyiSTG. 7 decisive steps are being taken by you to stop this wholesale profiteer- ing in the essentials of life, without which the child of to-day (and who by fate is destined to be the man and woman of to-morrow) can not receive proper food, proper clothing, and, in consequence, proper education. The brain and body of the growing boy and girl needs proper food and proper clothing. Deny him or her these essentials and what is the consequence ? The bi'ain becomes weak, the body is not kept warm, and the boy and girl by reason thereof acquires a weak system through lack of proper physical development and nurture. Such a boy becomes totally unfit to fight life's battle in after years. Such a boy makes a poor soldier in time of war, through lack of physical strength; such a girl can not be expected to be a healthy mother and a cheerful wife to her husband and her little ones. Some of these propositions are mere incidents of what the high cost of living means. But for every wrong there must be a remedy; and with the pur- pose in view of doing her part toward rectifying this wrong, my city — ^the greatest cosmopolitan city in the world — a city which is always ready, willing, and anxious to do her part in all great mat- ters and problems, has sent us on here to confer with you gentlemen and see what is best to be done. One peculiar thing that we Chicagoans can not understand, is the fact that so much of our foodstuffs is being daily sent abroad. Truly the sentiment of charity and good will to all mankind is an excellent idea, but at tfie same time we also believe in the old adage that " Charity begins at home," and as long as we have here in Chi- cago and elsewhere in our own country thousands of starving babes — starving from the lack of sugar and other necessary articles of food as the direct result of the high cost of living, should not we first attend to our own wants at home and after we shall have done so will be time enough to see what we can also do to help the suffering humanity of Europe? What does it avail us to encourage the farmer to produce greater quantities of foodstuffs in the United States if it is all to be shipped to Europe? Does that course help reduce the high cost of living here at home,? I apologize for taking so much of your valuable time, gentlemen, but we represent the I will " spirit of Chicago — " Go forward ; never go backward " ; keep on agitating the question until we have every profiteer dealer in essential food products behind the bars of our jails; and we propose to keep on agitating this question until our Congressmen enact such legislation as will make future profit- eering in food products impossible and the high cost of living re- duced to such a standard as will be commensurate with the earnings of the average man and woman of to-day. Gentlemen, we have laid the situation plainly before you and we ask you, what can you and will you do to prevent the wholesale slaughter, by means of starvation and death from lack of proper food and clothing, of our babes, in our city and elsewhere, which will surely follow the onward march of the high cost of living propa- ganda unless it is speedily checked- We leave this great and important problem in your liands, and we earnestly implore you gentlemen to make this all-important matter 8 COST OF LIVING. a special order of business and to do all within your legal power to give to the people the relief to which they are entitled at your hands. I thank you again for this opportunity of addressing you. Chairman Haugen. Will you kindly state the functions of this bureau of markets? Mr. Fetzee. Its functions as extended to it by the city council are to investigate. We had men who were profiteering. I just want to cite an illustration that happened down in my ward. I was born and raised on a farm. Some of my friends say 1 should have stayed there— I ought not to have left it. But I know what farm life is, because I stayed there until I was 17 years old. I want to tell you something. A woman drove in there with a bushel of the prettiest apples you ever saw, and when she went to a grocerjsman there he said, " Well, I will give you 75 cents for them." She said, " I hate to sell them for that. I understood that apples were high." He said, " No ; I will give you 75 cents for your apples." Inside of 30 minutes he had them parcelled out so he would get $3 for the lot. We authorized this bureau to investigate the situation there in Chi- cago and their province is to find out if there is food profiteering. The retailer said, " We do not get the money," and the people go in there and buy their stuff and say they could not tell from one day to another what the price was going to be. That is one of the things which contributed to this great unrest there in Chicago. So this commission has been working for the last thjee months, and we are getting data, but Mr. Poole is here and can speak for himself. Chairman Haugen. They are not engaged in buying or selling? Mr. Fetzer. No, indeed. Now, if it meets with the approval of you gentlemen, I would like to call on Dr. Robertson, who is the health commissioner of the city of Chicago. Chairman Gronna. We will be glad to hear Dr. Robertson. STATEMENT OF DR. JOHN DILL ROBERTSON, COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH, CHICAGO, ILL. Dr. Robertson. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, as the chairman has stated, I am a. physician and surgeon. At the same time I am commissioner of health of Chicago, and as commissioner of health I am the president of the Municipal, Tuberculosis Sanitarium. We spend $1,000,000 a year in the Municipal Tuberculosis Sanitarium in taking care of tubercular people. We spend another $1,000,000 a year in the health department. I do not think I am entirely out of touch with the agricultural interests in Illinois, either. I think I see more farmers every day in my department than perhaps you gentlemen do when you go home, even if you live in rural districts. We use milk in Chicago. That milk comes from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, northern Illi- nois, and Indiana. We deal directly with the farmers through 15 men that I have in automobiles touring the country. I am in close touch with those 16 people. I know what the farmers are saying in that territory. I know what our .people are saying in Chicago. I know the situation in regard to malnutrition and anemia of our people of Chicago. We have 500,000 school children attending our COST OF LIVING. '9 public schools. In those schools I have 150 doctors and 140 nurses. For the last 12 or 15 years we have made surveys of the physical condition of those children. We have published reports. We make physical examination of their bodies from head to foot. We know how many of them have bad teeth. We know how many of them have enlarged tonsils and adenoids. We know how many of them are undernourished, what we call malnutrition, or bad nutrition. We know how many of them are short of red blood, what we call anemia. And we know that during the last four years that num- ber has gone from about 35,000 out of the 500,000 to 200,000. We know that some day these young people we hope to be the men and women of America, and we know the necessity for feeding them and taking care of them. I might say in passing that for 10 years I was on the State Board of Agriculture of the State of Illinois and dealt with the farmers. We talk much about the high cost of wheat and the high cost of products that are bought, such as cereals, that Senator Gronna spoke about. The farmers say to me that the $2.25 they get for their wheat is not worth any more to them than what they got before the war. In other words, $2.25 is not $2.25 ; it is virtually about 40 per cent of that, or about 90 cents, because they pay a higher price for everything, else they get. In Chicago we have made an earnest, honest effort to get the facts, and we are here to-day to hand those facts to you gentlemen. What we call in medicine the idiology, or the cause back of it all, is the thing that you doctors here have a •committee to decide. That is what we selected you for. You spend your entire time studying the situation. We bring to you here the rsymptoms of the disease. We are giving you the symptomatology as manifested in the city of Chicago. It is for you to find the under- lying, cause. Some people say it is one thing and some people say it is another thing. We are suggesting here, after our investigations in Chicago of the symptoms that are manifested there, certain remedies. You people will take those and, I presume, will mull them ■over, and perhaps laugh at us in Chicago and say, " These people do not know anything about legislation ; they do not understand this problem at all." Anyway, we are going to give you those symptoms. The cry •came so strong, as was stated by Alderman Fetzer, from the people in Chicago for something doing that the council practically unani- mouslj' appointed the bureau of foods, markets, and farm products. We had a food bureau in the health department then, but they looked into the quality of foods, not the quantity and the price. This bureau was established, then, in the department of health, of which I have the honor of being the commissioner, and the seven or eight bureaus are all under the commissioner of health, and this bureau is ■operating under the department of health. A civil-service examina- tion was held for director, and Mr. Poole qualified under that civil- service examination and was made direcixjr. We then organized inspectors and sent them out in the warehouses, and first they made a survey of all the warehouses in Chicago as to the square feet ot floor surface there, and then we went into our cold-storage ware- houses and made a survey of the foodstuffs there ; we made a survey of the number of eggs there and the number of millions of pounds of 10 COST OF LIVING. beef there, and we made a survey of the situation in regard to sugar in Chicago. We found evidence that the confectioners, at the time we made the- survey, had 11,850,000 pounds of sugar, when the people of Chicago could not get a pound, when the wholesale grocers could not get a pound. The confectioners at that time had 11,850,000 pounds. I called these confectioners together with Mr. Poole and Judge lies at the Morrison Hotel, and I said to them, " Gentlemen, you have got 11,850,000 pounds of sugar. You have got so many pounds, Mr.. Brock, of the Brock Candy Co. Mr. Bundy, you have got so many pounds." I did not ask them how many pounds they had. I told them how many pounds they had, because we had gone there and made an examination, and we knew what they had. I said, " We want some of your sugar for our people." They had paid 9, 10, and 11 cents a pound for the sugar when the sugar was being sold around Chicago for 20 cents a pound. It was their sugar. They had bought- it, and they could do whatever they pleased with it. We practically forced them to give us 300,000 pounds of that sugar. I said, " I can not make you do it, but I can do this : I can put out proj^aganda in the city of -Chicago against every stick of candy you are using. I can tell the people in the city of Chicago that you have got this sugar, and not to eat a piece of candy that you people manufacture; but there are thousands of little stores making their living selling your candy in the city of Chicago, and I do not want to do that." They gave us 300,000 pounds of sugar. We paid them 13 cents a pound and saved $20,000 for the people of Chicago. That is what we spent on this bureau ; so we had the feeling in our hearts that we had not wasted any money; we got back the money we have spent.. I want to say this to you : That there are 31,000 patients in Chicago' that I have charge of in the eight dispensaries, tubercular people, that need eggs, milk, and more eggs and more milk, that need sugar, that need fats of all kinds, that need meats. Up in the tuberculosis dispensaries will be a thousand more lying on their backs, many of whom are undernourished. That makes 32,000 that we have charge of. We have these children, and that army is growing greater and greater. I want to reiterate what Alderman Fetzer has said. We have 60,000,000 bushels of surplus wheat in America now. I do not know whether you know anything about it or not. I do not know whether you know we have 60,000,000 bushels of surplus wheat. I do not know whether any one of you can go with me down to any bureau in Washington and prove that we have 60,000,000 bushels of surplus wheat. I may be absolutely wrong, but I have talked to several Congressmen, and I think we ought to try to find out whether it is true that there are 60,000,000 bushels of surplus wheat, and better look into it very carefully before we start exporting it. As the mayor of Chicago has stated time and time again, I thirik one great remedy is to limit your exports and to be sure that we know what our surplus is. America is sick, and not only is America sick, but the world is sick, and it has got the bellyache. We have these children, and they have got to have more eggs, more fats, more meat. So many of them are going to school, and they are undernourished, so pardon a doctor COST OF LIVING. 11 •from Chicago from coming down here, because, after all, it is a matter that every health ofBcer of every city in the Nation is in- terested in, because it is a question of the nutrition of our citizens, and if our people do not stay strong and virile we can not lead the world in democracy or anything else. Kepresentative Rainey. It is suggested that Judge lies now pro- ceed. Chairman Gkonna. Judge lies, we will be very glad to hear you. STATEMENT OF ME. EGBERT S. ILES, ATTORNEY, BUEEAU OF FOODS, MARKETS, AND FAEM PEODUCTS, CHICAGO, ILL. Mr. IliES. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am a very plain, mat- ter-of-fact individual, and I do not want you to think that I come up here merely as a lawyer. I think I am a lawyer and some people seem to think so, but whether that is true or not I expect I know nearly as much about farming as some of our farmer Representatives. I was raised on a farm. I have worked at mechanical trades. In fact, I am delighted to see here men who have grown up with the United States, who can recall from personal experience a great deal of the wonderful history of this great country of ours, because they will appreciate some of the conditions which now surround us bet- ter than the younger generation possibly would, and I want to address myself to you as representatives of the great United States of America, the men upon whose shoulders the responsibility for wise legislation rests. In taking up this question we took it up without realy knowing what the situation is, except from rumor, and if we had believed all that was published in the papers and all that had come to us by nunor we would have believed that the United States was going to the damnation bowwows right away. When we began to investigate the situation we found that some of the rumors were correct. Others of them were entirely circulative and false, and some of them perni- ciously wicked; but underneath all of it there was a condition that required remedy, and the first thing that -addressed itself to my attention, or the first thing that I observed, was this: One of the members of this committee was kind enough to furnish me with a stack of bills, about a basketful of them, that have been introduced in this Congress for the purpose of remedying this condition, and I found that nearly every one of them sought to regulate somebody, and when I began to figure up just what the legislation would amount to it seemed to me that it would just about double the cost of every- thing by the time they got through with all the things they had to do. Then we took another tack on it. Let us see what is the matter. There is a general notion in the world among the people that over- consumption and underproduction is the whole trouble. Well, under- production is a great calamity, because if a man needs a loaf of btead and can not even get a crumb it is a pretty bad situa;tion ; and over- consumption, which amounts to extravagance, is also a bad thing, because if you eat up all that you have for breakfast you will not have anything for dinner. That is true. But we found this, that when we began to investigate the cost of the production of the necessities of life, allowing a reasonable profit, better than a pre- 12 COST OF LIVING. war profit to the producer, and then took the price that the con- sumer was paying, we found that there was 'a great discrepancy there, that you could not figure out any way, giving all of the legiti- mate dealers that handled that from 'the time it left the producer until it reached the consumer a reasonable and fair profit, how there was an excess cost there to the consumer that was not accounted for. In investigating that proposition we found that, I may call it, a hysteria of average that has seized the people as the result of loosing of all of the human passions in war had induced every man that was dealing in anything to think that the only remedy he had was to get a little more for what he had. We know well enough that if that work continued the result of it finally would be a financial crisis and disaster. We do not know what else will follow, because when a man is hungry he is hardly responsible. Now, how are we going to. remedy that? Let us see if we can ■ not make some rules that will be as sensible in business as they are in reports and if we can not eliminate some of this thiri^ that is in the way. Now, in going over the remedies we found, first, a great obstruc- tion. The Department of Justice of the United States has a tre- mendous duty to perform. Its scope is wide. We found that the people directly interested are the first ones, those that feel the pinch of the game are the ones that ought to undertake to initiate the prosecutions to prevent abuses. We found also that through the conditions that existed it was absolutely necessary for weeks and weeks to pass by after something was started before there was an affirmative action that got those parties before a United States court. I am not going to discuss that before you, because it would come, as I have been informed since I came here, before the Judiciary Committee. I have prepared a bill to meet it, however, and I want to mention it and say that that is one of the links in the chain of things that we think it is necessary for the United States Congress to do in order to clarify the situation and that would be simply, in plain words, to place the initiative so that preliminary examinations may be held by the local courts for the purpose of holding parties over to the United States courts. It can be done. There is prece- dence for it. That is the first proposition. I am going to pass that. The next one is this: We found tluit there was a tremendovis amount of produce being expoi-ted from the United States. Now, we are a merciful people, we are a generous people, and I hope we^ are a just people, but justice, gentlemen, is higher even than gen- erosity and mercy, because out of justice grow those noble sentiments, and from nowhere else, and justice demands that if are going to stand before the people of the world as an example and an inspira- tion to liberty among men, we must be sufficiently strong to stand up and be men ourselves. We pride ourselves upon the magnificent army of 2,000,000 men that went across the sea, the finest men upon the face of God's earth. Why? Because they breathed the air of liberty and had been well nourished from infancy, and nourish- ment, gentlemen, stands at the basis of all physical ability and mental acumen, so far as mortals are concerned. Now, gentlemen, realizing our duty to those across the water, it would be folly for us to do as a Nation what' none of you ever do as a family, and that is impoverish ourselves so that we have neither COST OF LIVING. 13 the means, ability, nor the strength to work in order to help some fellow that is unfortunate. We do help him, but the more we have the more we make, the stronger we are, the better we can do it, and then our example in taking care of ourselves is an incentive to him to do the same thing. That is what we want these United States to do. Now, then, we found this, that there is no intelligent regulation whatever of exportation. How do you know, as Members of this Congress of the United States, how much is being exported and how much is not until after it is done, when you get the report? Do you not in your own households have some kind of a budget system. Do you not have some kind of a way of estimating what your resources are and how much you can sell. Would you not be foolish, as farmers, to sell all of your produce and then have to buy the same things back? We discovered that the United States is doing that, and we have also discovered that products have actually been shipped from the United States into Canada and brought back here and sold in the United States again, and to other countries the same way. Now, then, we thought that, as a business proposition, as some- thing that sensible men ought to do, there should be some kind of intelligent supervision over exports, so we prepared a bill, which is only tentative, and we suppose and hope that some Member of this Congress and this committee will have the kindness to take this up and dress it into shape and give it proper legal form, and then that the Congress of the United States, when that bill is properly presented and dressed and considered, will enact it into a law. Let me explain it. This is a bill to provide for the establish- ment of a bureau in the Department of Agriculture to direct and control the exportation from the United States of food and food products, and to define its powers and duties and for other pur- poses. I put " for other purposes " on. I did not know what it was done for, but I know it was on nearly all the bills that I picked up and read, so I put that on. Sec. 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America In Congress assembled, That a bureau to be known as the Bureau of Exports shall be established in the Department of Agricul- ture; and shall be governed by a commission consisting of the Secretary of Agriculture, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Director of the Bureau of exports. The terms " food " and " food ■ products " mean any product or by-product, which is, or may be, manufactured into food for human beings. Sec. 2. Immediately upon the passage and approval of this act, the Presi- dent with the approval of the Senate shall appoint a Director of the Bureau of Exports — I say, "With the approval of," for this reason, gentlenien. We want this man to be a very high-class man. He stands with equal rank with the collector of a port, with a collector of internal revenue, or with any of the great heads of bureaus, and the whole Nation ought to have a word in determining who he should be. Well, I was digressing — who immediately upon his appointment shall proceed to organize and operate the bureau under the direction of the Secretary of Agriculture in conformity with the provisions of this act and the rules of the commission. 14 COST OF LiyiNG. Sec. 3. It shall be the tluty of the commission to have general supervision of the work of the bureau, and it shall be the final board of appeals in all matters that may arise in connection vi^ith the vifork of the bureau. The commission shall have power to make the necessary rules to govern the work of the bureau and to carry out the provisions of this act ; and such rules, in conformity therewith, shall have the same force and effect as the provisions of this act. It shall also have power to provide such blanks and books as may be necessary for the transaction of the business of the bureau, and for such assistants, clerks, accountants, and other employees as shall be necessary ; find to fix the compenation to be paid the same in conformity with the pro- visions of this act. The commission shall serve without any further compensation than that re- ceived by them in their respective positions. That is up to the discretion of Congress in appointing it, how it shall be arranged. It shall be the duty of the director to have direct supervision over the work of the bureau and to execute all orders of the commission. He shall be responsible for the proper enforcement of the provisions of this act. The commission shall have the power to appoint an assistant, who shall be known as assistant director, who shall perform such duties as may be assigned to him by the director, and who shall act in the absence or disability of the director. Each and every person employed undei' the provisions of this act shall devote their entire time and attention to the performance of the duties of their respective positions, ;is provided for in this act and the rules and regulations of the bureau. It shall be unlawful for any director, his jissistants, agents, clerks, or other ■employees of this bureau to have any interest, financial or otherwise, directly or indirectly, in any firm, coi-poration, oi- partnership dealing in food products. Then there is another section there providing for compensation which I will not read. Now, then, comes tlie gist of it. It comes now to the gist of the proposition. Sec. -5. It shall be the duty of the bureau to list alL foods and food products subject to export, and to ascertain and keep a record of the animal consump- tion and production of all foods and food products in the United States and its dependencies ; and the surplus on hand and carried over from year to year, and all 'food and food prfiducts exported and imported, and to issue quarteily bulletins of information showing the above as ascertained by the bureau. Now, it struck me as being sensible for us to have a department in the United States Government for doing just what every board of directors of a bank does, and that is to ascertain exectly what you have on hand, your assets and liabilities, and provide for your surplus and provide an adequate reserve. It is just as essential for us to have a reserve of food products, and more so, than in money, because you can live if you do not have any money. I have done it many a time, for a good long time at a time. But you can not live without something to eat. Sec. 6. The bureau .shall have supervision and control of all foods and food products exported from the United States and its dependencies, and shall have power to issue and i-evoke licenses to exporters, in conformity with this act and the rules of the commission, and shall limit the exportation of foods and food products as in this act provided. Sec. 7. No person, coi-poration, or partnership shall engage in the business of exporting foods or food products from the United States to any of its de- pendencies unless the same shall have and hold a license from the Bureau of Exports issued pursuant to the rules of the commission, and no foods or'food products shall be exported from the United States except upon permit of the ■director of the bureau, In conformity with the rules of the commission. COST OF LIVING. 15 Then is the next crucial point. Sec. 8. The Bureau shall determine from time to time the amount of food sind food products required for consumption in the United States and the amount necessary to be held in reserve and the surplus subject to export; and no permit shall be given for the export of any food or food products from the United States to any foreign country in excess of the surplus so determined. Now, then, conies the point that I have not settled in my own mind. I can not make a recommendation, but there should be some arrangement by which, in case an emergency arose or a condition existed by which it might be loosened up and exports allowed to go, keeping close touch and control over the amount. I have said here, " except upon the order of the President of the United States, upon good cause shown," in an emergency, but that may not strike you as being proper, but whate^'er it is, that has to be taken into consideration. Now, the rest of it merely provides a penalty for violating the act, and then directs how to apply it when the act shall go into effect. We are going to leave these in the hands of some members of this committee, and trust it will appeal to you, and that you will not only give it consideration, but that the thought there expressed, whether it be enacted into law in that form or not, become a per- manent rule of action in the United States, that we shall be as sen- sible as a government as financial interests are as bankers. I must hurry on because I know your time is precious and my time is limited. There is another bill that we thought would help, and we believe it will, and we have been pleased to call it an antiprofiteering act. Now, in regard to that, as I said before, I think too rtiuch regulation all the time is merely piling up rules that nobody will obey. It is a good deal like a school-teacher who does not do anything but make rules and forgets to teach school, and none of the children pay any attention to the rules. Therefore the thing to do is to define of- fenses. That is the trouble we find in courts very frequently, that if some penal provision or some offense is so ill defined, if some defense is so ill defined that the court has no rule of law by which it can instruct the jury, then the jury becomes in one sense the judge of the law and of the facts both, and we know that juries are com- posed of human beings, and that every jury would have a different notion on the same subject, and we would get no uniformity what- ever. So the first thing to do is to define. So this law is a law first of definition, and I will read those definitions, and then it simply provides penalties for its violation. I think at the present time, from our investigation that that is as far as we ought to go in that line, as far as we can sensibly go. This is an act, "To define, prohibit, punish, and provide penalties for profiteering in the sale and dis- tribution of food, food products, wearing apparel, fuel, and other commodities in interstate commerce, and for other purposes." Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in Congress as- sembled, That this act may be cited as the " United States Antiprofiteering Act." Sec. 2. (a) That wherever used in this act: (1) The term "person" includes individual, partnership, association, or corporation. 16 COST OF LIVING. (2) The term " necessary " includes any product or by-product which Is, or may be manufactui-ed into food for human beings, domestic animals, or poultry, fuel, wearing apparel, or any other commodity necessary to life, Including build- ing materials. I want to warn you gentlemen that building in the city of Chicago has about come to a standstill. There is a great deal of building going on, and one looking at the accounts in the papers would sup- pose so, but our investigation shows it is altogether emergency work, or else work that Avas contracted for before the war, or else some building Avhere somebody out of vanity is trying to do something extravagant that too much credit has induced them to do, but Mr. Poole can give j^ou information about that better than I, and I shall refer those matter to him, as to all food questions, and the questions upon which we base the necessity for tTiis particular bill. (3) The term "commerce" means commerce between any State, Territory, District, possession, or foreign nation, and any other State, District, Territory, or possession, or from any State, District, Territory, possession, or foreign nation, or within any Territory, District, or possession, or between points In the same State, but through any other States or any Territory, District, pos- session, or foreign nation. That is the stock definition of what interstate commerce is. (4) Any word shall import the plural or the singular as the case demands. Now comes a point that I ask special attention to, because it goes right to the heart of things: (5) The term "hoarding" means willful withholding, whether by possession or under any contract, arrangement, combination, or device, from the market by any person ^or the purpose of, or to the effect of, forestalling the market, or creating a monopoly or unreasonably affecting the price of any necessity. You know there is an enormous amount of hoarding that is going on in this country. We found just the other day 48 carloads of po- tatoes in an old icehouse outside of the town. Potatoes were jumping from 60 to 75 cents and $1 at a jump right along. Those potatoes come right from interstate commerce and go into the old icehouse and stay there. Other potatoes come and go into the old icehouse and stay there. They are also held back in near-by places from which they could readily reach the cities, until the market rises, and then sent in. We talk about supply and demand. We have no free mar- ket that allows the law of supply and demand to operate, if there is such a law. The term " hoarding " means willful — Because we always have to have that in the law. If you do not put it in, the court does anyway. (5) The term "hoarding" means willful withholding, whether by possession or under any contract, arrangement, combination, or device, from the market l>y any person for the purpose of, or to the effect of, forestalling the market, or creating a monopoly or unreasonably affecting the price of any necessity. Now, gentlemen, if you will just give the local authorities and local courts in the vicinities where this thing is being done the power of initiative to hold some of these people over to the grand jury and enact this law so that hoarding is clearly defined, you will see a wonderful scattering among the rats that are eating up the food of the United States and creating the high prices suggested. We make no war upon the producer. We want to encourage him. We want OOST OF LIVING. 17 him to get a fair price. I can give an example. I' have a little case in which I carry things around with me that cost $6.50 at wholesale. I went down and compared it with the same article exactly, from the same manufacturer, in a great retail house, and found they charged $17.50 for it. That comes under the next provision relating to profiteering, but this is hoarding. Representative Puenell. May I ask a question there ? Mr. Iles. Certainly. Representative Purnell. I would like to ask how you expect to reach the hoarder of food products under your bill if we can not do it under the present machinery and under the present law — under our present food-control act? Mr. Iles. My dear fellow, .1 am defining it. We will take care of reaching him. Good God, Almighty ! You give me a description of a rat, so that I will know one when I see it, and I will find the ter- rier that will get him. Representative Ptirneix,. I do not believe the gentleman got my question. You refer to the carloads of potatoes that are being hoarded in Chicago. Under the present food-control act we have all the law necessary to reach the man who would hoard the potatoes. Mr. Iles. Yes, my dear fellow ; I am glad you asked that question. Representative Puhnell. I just wondered why you advocate the passage of another law which is merely a duplicate of that. Mr. Iles. This is no duplicate. It has nothing to do with that at all.. This defines so that we can punish when we catch the devil. Now, let me answer your question. There is a nefarious practice that should be reached, of what we call combination sales, which is the worst fraud on earth, operated through interstate commerce, and there is this hoarding which is contrary to the Lever Act, and others contrary to the Lever Act, too, but, unfortunately, under the Lever Act, until some darned committee has established a rule of what shall be fair, you can not do a darned thing. There is the trouble with the Lever Act. Representative RAiNEr. Can not the Department of Justice pro- ceed against them? Mr. Iles. The Department of Justice can proceed against them, but you can not get a conviction unless there is a rule established determining what is fair. Dr. Robertson. You say that you cover that now under the Lever law. We took 28 cases from my department, with Judge Iles and Mr. Poole, over to the Federal bureau in Chicago, of profiteering in sugar. We bought the sugar and we got the receipts, at 22 cents. We got the two witnesses. The evidence is there, as to 28 of them. We could not start anything. We waded through the long processes of Federal action there. Mr. Cline, of Chicago, has got hundreds and hundreds of things to do. What we want to do when we get those fellows is to get action at home through our local courts, bind them over to the Federal grand jury, and the remedy would be there. I just butted in while you were waiting. There were those 28 cases. Mr. Iles. Thank you, Doctor. I am such a rough ^nd ready fel- low that, of course, you were afraid I would offend somebody. Representative Jtjitl. May I interrupt? At 12 o'clock there will be a roll call in the House, and I know what that means to a great 162601—20 2 18 COST OF LIVUfG, number of the gentlemen, and I would wish that before we hear from Mr. Poole we give an opportunity to the gentlefnen that are here from the other States. There is a small delegation from the State of New Jersey, and I just wanted to tell Judge lies that the meeting, here is apt to be very abruptly terminated as soon as the bell rings for the roll call in the House. Mr. Iles. When I finish this section I will quit with a definition or two, and I want to explain to these gentlemen that these definitions are in order to enable a court to instruct the jury so as to get a con- viction. I do not need to make anything new to define wha,t we already recognize. (6) The term "profiteering" means: (a) Hoarding; (6) buying and holding, or selling for profit any necessary by any person, who is not engaged in, and holding himself out as engaged in the line of trade in such necessary. Now, if you sat with us and had followed this thing as we have, you would see that the fact that men can go into the market and buy the whole market out, even before it is grown, and hold it off, it ought to be stopped. This speculation is one of the great evils, and that reaches it. (c) Deriving, or charging an unreasonable profit on any necessary, by any person engaged in the line of trade in such necessary, by any fraud, device, combiation, or circumvention; (d) combining or conspiring with with others to derive an unearned profit by unnecessary or fraudulent resales of any neces- sary to intermediaries or dealers, of the same class in the line of trade; from the producer or manufacturer to the consumer, according to the usual custom of the trade; (e) willfully destroying, withholding, or delaying by any device, combination or other means any necessary in commerce In transportation or delivery for the purpose of forestalling the market or affecting the price. , Now, then, comes the crucial proposition : (f) Hoarding, as defined in paragraph 5, out of commerce, and releasing, Sellingi, distributing, or transporting la commerce, receiving in or through commeKce and hoarding out of commerce. Now, then, by a proper definition of necessary we have a defini- tion by which the court can intelligently instruct a jury. Chairman Gronna. If I may interrupt you there, would you want this to apply only to food products? Mr. Iles. That is all we have under our jurisdiction, and that is all we considered, except we have included in here building materials as necessaries. As necessaries, we say, food, clothing, etc. It ap- plies to food, clothing, and then we include among necessaries build- ing materials. Kepresentative Anderson. May I ask you a question there ? Mr. luBs. Yes, sir. Representative Anderson. I understand the bill, as you have drawn it, is limited to interstate commerce. Would you expect to reach the retailer under this legislation ? Mr. Iles. We say interstate commerce, and the United States has absolute jurisdiction of interstate commerce. Now, then, they may, after following the product until it has a local situs, and when 'it has a local situs jurisdiction under interstate commerce ceases, but, having control, they can prohibit the use of interstate commerce for a fraud, if the party stores it for forestalling, which is well under- stood hy the courts and well defined. It may be made an offense to use interstate commerce in that way. That is my notion of: it.' COST OF LIVING. 19 That is up to the lawyers, however. Then hoarding i? out of coni- nierce, and then using commerce to get the benefit of the hoarding we think also should be within the purview of Congress. Do not understand that I think the United States can do everj'thing. The United States only has those powers which are granted by the States or by the people of the States, and such powers as are inci- dent to carry out those powers, and when once granted they are abso-. lute and sovereign, and they have sovereign po^^er o\'er interstate commerce, and they would control and direct it. Representative Andekson. Just a moment. I do not want to take your time, but I want to ask you another question. You have used tlie terms, " in and out of commerce," meaning interstate commerce. I wonder whether you had any legal authority for the use of those terms, or whether they have been defined in any case? Mr. Iles. I have not looked. I thought that was so patent on its face that it would be manifest on this line of reasoning. It is, as i said, that if Congress now controls the interstate commerce, hav- ing sole jurisdiction and control of interstate commerce, they may prohibit the use of interstate commerce for perpetrating a fraud, that is all. Of course, every man who wants to perpetrate a fraud will sqileal, and he will find fault with it, but notwithstanding we have to convince him and the court, and it might possibly be found that I was stretching it, but, my dear fellow, if we do not stretch a little we will never get anywhere. Representative ANDEESiON. I- do not particularly relish your in- terpretation, but I was trying to get your ideas, and if you do not want to answer the question j)ardon me for asking. Mr. Iles. I understand. Pardon me for my earnestness, because I come from the great West, and am originally from Kentucky. Representative McKiklet. The gentleman who is talking to you is originally from Minnesota, ?fo he has a fellow feeling. Mr. Iles. I say I am in earnest about it. There is one thing I want to call attention to. Fining where millions of dollars are in- A'olved is of no value whatever as punishment, so I put in a request that you consider fixing an imprisonment for every violation that is a substantial violation of- any of these acts. N'ow, gentlemen, I have been so frequently wai'ned that I am overstepping my time that I am going to step down and get out. Representative Young. Your remarks apply more generally to the food supply being in these congested centers, and the fact that our people in these centers are suffering from malnutrition. Does the thought occur to you gentlemen representing these large cities that the statistics show that the farms are rapidly becoming de- populated, and that the drift is largely toward j;he cities, the con- gested centers, and industrial enterprises have bid against farm labor and have withdrawn this farm labor from the prodiiction of these food supplies, and necessaries that come from the farm and have made such a drain that we can no longer compete, and the result is that people are leaving the farms. Now, under your broad suggestions here as to the embargo powers, etc., you propose to use these extraordinary powers to control these products that the farmer, with his limited labor supply, produces, and control his market so that by this control you would name the 20 COST ,0r LIVINQ, , price of his stuff and make him the burden bearer by reducing the price that he can obtain for the stuff that he produces, although^ be is forced to produce it at higher i^ates of, wages, higher prices for his material such as farm implements, higher prices tor tiis. clothing, and higher prices for everything that is fed back to Him. You propose that we give these extraordinary powers so that you can limit the price that these consumers; in the congested centers , must pay for this food and these farm products. Mr. Iles. My dear sir, there is not a word about the limitation of the price in there. We have avoided that. Eepresentative Young. But when you give the power to embargo, shipments, that embargo power can destroy the price of farm prod-;, nets, and if that embargo power is to be given as to the products from the farm, why not the same embargo power as to farm imple- ments, as to manufactured goods, and as to the frozen products of foods that go out from your great packers in your cities, and as to every industrial enterprise ? Why limit it to the food supply from the country that conies from the farm ? Mr. ItES. For the reason that we are a food bureau, and we are only considering food products, and these others are matters of general legislation to be taken up in the other bills that might possi- bly be introduced. I would be delighted to discuss this question fully, because I have gojie into it. I see all those things which you refer to, and we have an answer, but my time will not permit me, as I have been 15 times pulled by the coat tail here and asked to get down off of this platform, and I am going to do it. But I would be pleased to meet any of you gentlemen, any of the Representatives or Senators* and discuss this question. I would be pleased to meet you and discuss it. Representative Young. I will just make this statement before you leave, for the benefit of th»eise other gentlemen from Chicago and the other great cities. I come from a great productive center. I repre- sent an agricultural section, and I know that the farmers are the burden bearers. They have nothing to do with naming the price they get for anything they produce, whereas the industrial centers feed back our products to us, and we give the price they name, and,, so far as this Congress is concerned, as long as I am here, I will never vote for any legislation that will give any Government bureau the power to embargo products of the farm, and thus control the price that I, as a producer, may get for the stuff that I produce on the farm. When you do that you are going to destroy the agricul- ture of this country that is being rapidly destroyed, and the people in the cities are going to starve to death. The thing you must do is to encourage the people to go back to the farm and produce more stuff for these consuming centers. Mr. Iles. That will be done. If these laws are carried out accord- ing to the spirit and the principle involved, it will tend to bring people back to the farm rather than take them away. There is one thing we notice. We have men who come from the farm attracted by the glare of the city. They look around for employment. They do not go into any productive employment, but they go down on South Water Street, and to various other places, and they become inter- mediaries in the trade, and the farmer is not getting his fair price, COST OF LIVING. 21 according to what we pay. That is, what we want to remedy. He is not getting a fair price. Representative Tincher. What food products are being exported ? Mr. Iles. I would like Mr. Poole to answer that question. Among others are wheat, rice, and meat products. Representative Tincher. You mean you are complaining now of the export of wheat? Mr. Iles. Wheat, rice, meat products, in fact nearly all the prod- ucts that are subject to export, meat, butter, and milk. Representative Tincher. Has your survey enlightened the com- mittee as to the fact that in the wlieat-producing section of this country the banks have practically suspended their business by rea- son of the fact that the wheat can not be taken out of the hands of the producer at all, and the fact that in my State we have great quan- tities of wheat on hand and have no market for it at all by reason of the lack of railroad facilities at this time, and that the banks in my district, or half the banks have suspended the loaning of money on account of the fact that their loans are tied up on this wheat ■? You said the export of wheat now ? Mr. Iles. Yes ; if it is taken out of the country to a greater extent than we can afford to spare it. Representative Tincher. Let me suggest this to you. A law now- suspending the exportation of wheat out of the United States, instead of increasing the acreage of wheat, as it has been reduced this year by reason of poor railroad facilities, 20, 30, or 40 per cent in that section, would reduce it 75 per cent in the next year, and you would not get the result that you want, of reducing the high cost of living by such a law as that. I think if vour survey will go far enough, you will find that in the wreat-raising sections, where Senator Cap- per, Senator Gronna, and others of us come from, where they have no embargo on wheat now, that this would be the most disastrous thing this Congress could do. Chairman Hattgen. Is our trouble not largely due to the lack of enforcement of the law? Mr. Iles. To the lack of enforcement; yes. Chairman Haugen. Then, if I understand you correctly, it should be enforced by the local authorities and not by the Federal Govern- ment ? Mr. Iles. Not that it can not be trusted, but with the machinery that is necessary, and the volume of business tliat the Department of Justice has to perform, we would get to speedy relief if preliminary hearings could be had by the local courts. Chairman -Hatjgen. You take the position that the law has not been satisfactorily enforced by the Federal Government? Mr. Ilf'^. It has not been satisfactorily enforced because we have not been able to get it enforced at all to a great extent. Chairman Hattgen. You propose to transfer, the enforcement to the local authorities? Mr. Iles. I do not want to be understood as criticising the De- partment of Justice. I am not doing that. Chairman Haugen. But I understand you to say that you proposed to transfer the enforcement of it from the Federal Government to the local authorities. 22 COST OF LIVING. Mr. Iles. The initiative. Not transfer it, but make it concurrei^^. Chairman Hattgen. You contend that the enforcement should initiate with the local authorities? Mr. InES. Yes ; with the local authorities. Chairman Haugen. You say that we can not hope for entorce- ment by the Federal Government, because the Federal machinery is too large? Mr. Iles. For the initiative. The Federal Government and the courts can handle it afterward. , -n t Chairman Hattgen. You mentioned sugar. The Sugar Equaliza- tion Board was in operation, with $150,000,000 available, when the Cuban sugar crop was offered to us at a reasonable price, but not a pound was bought. That, of course, is responsible for the present situation on sugar.^ Eepresentative Rainet. Congressman Minahan of New Jersey is here, and in Order that Chicago may not monopolize all the time, I will ask that he be heard. STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL F. MINAHAN, A EEPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY. Representative Minahan. I will only take a minute. The mayor of Newark has handed me a statement in regard to the Government competing with the profiteers. The mayor goes on to recount how Newark was the first city to sell Army foods, how they bought a quarter of a million dollars worth to start off with, and up to the present time have sold $1,050,000 worth of Army foods, and he states at the end that from figures obtained he is absolutely confident that the competition by the municipal sales has had a great influence in holding down the retail prices on most of the foodstuffs sold in the city. The mayor recommends the continuance of Army sales. He fur- ther recommends the purchase at the sources of supply of foods by the Army, in order that there may be competition with the profiteers who like highwaymen are holding up the American people. Newark has been very successful in the selling of Government foods, and they have sold not only to the public at large, but in the armories. They advertise meat sales there, and they sell to the de- partment stores at cost-plus 1 per cent, and the mayor is of the opinion that if these sales continue they will be a great help in bring- ing down the price of food necessities. I will now introduce Dr. Craster, the health officer of Newark, who will give you some first-hand information regarding conditions in his home city. STATEMENT OF DR. CHARLES V. CRASTER, HEALTH OFFICER, NEWARK, N. J. Dr. Crasitsr. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am here to-day to back up the case as presented by the various representatives from Chicago. The case of Newark is similar to Chicago, and similar to all the other cities throughout this country, where the high price of living, we think, from the point of view of health, is something of great moment to us as a Nation. I think that we all must agree COST OP LIVING. 23 that if the price of food goes up it is the poor person who is squeezed, not the person who can afford to pay. We have had ex- perience with high prices in connection with foodstuffs, milk, meats, bread, and commodities such as ice. The price is boosted, and the person who can not afford to pay is the person to lose. We have had investigations made by some of our divisions in connection with the department of health, particularly the division of child hygiene, which has definitely proved that when the price of a commodity goes up that commodity is usually lost in the family. We made such an investigation in regard to milk, and we found that the milk price had gone up. In some of the families where milk was formerly used the amount of milk was cut 50 per cent. The people did not use the same amount of milk. The same will be true in regard to the other commodities, the necessary commodities such as fats and sugar. We believe that there is enough food in this country to supply the needs of our large cities at moderate prices. There is an epidemic not of influenza, but an epidemic of profiteering, and because a cer- tain dealer can not get his former profit upon any particular article he usually boosts the price to the i'etailer and to the consumer. He must and is determined to make his former profit, and will not take any less. I would ask that at least something be done by Congress to get at this profiteering. I was very much impressed on one visit to Chicago, when the price of me^t was sky high, to be led through miles and miles of meat hanging in the various cold-storage warehouses, a reserve meat supply, I was told, but there it was. We have had similar investigations in the city of Newark, where articles have been sold and the price of the article has been hi^, and have found our cold-storage places bursting with foodstuffs, held, they say, as a necessary reserve, and yet the reserve is larger than we ever had before. I feel, Mr. Chairman, that it is time that something should be done to see that the common person, the person whose wages are not boosted, is able to get the necessary food to keep him and his family in health and comfort. Chairman Geonna. Doctor, may I ask you a question? Dr. Ceasteb. Yes, sir. Chairman Geonna. Has the price of food been reduced to the con- sumer recently in Newark? Dr. Ceastee. I think slightly, but it is inclined to go up again. Chairman Geonna. You knew it has been reduced very substan- tially to the producer ? Dr. Ceastee. Yes, sir. Chairman Geonna. Do you know whether the price of meat has been cut? Dr. Ceastee. Well, for some particular types of meat, but not high-class meat. Chairman Geonna. I mean live animals? Dr. Ceastee, I think the price went down a little and then went up again. I feel in regard to this that the Government, by its selling of food to the municipality, has done a great deal toward cutting down the retail cost of foods, particularly canned foods. Whenever 24 COST OF LIVING. the municipality has gone into the business of food supplies we have been able to cut down the price of food. This we noticed in the control we had of ice last sumnier, and of milk, when we opened our municipal milk depots, and in the price of ■ canned goods when we opened our various municipal depots for the sale of Army goods. I therefore would like to make a very strong appeal thai tiie Government still continue to allow the municipalities to handle food -at cost, because you will find, if you investigate the subject, that most of the high prices to the consumer are caused by the middle men, the various middle men through which the food has to go. As an example, %he milk which is sold by the farmer at from 8 to 9 and 9| cents a quart is retailed in the city at 16, 18, and 28 cents a quart, according to the man who is selling it, and we feel that if the municipalities are able where they can to sell food to the people at retail, we will at least do something to control the price of food to the ultimate consumer. Chairman Geoxxa. The trouble then seems to be more with our system of marketing than the system of production. Dr. Crasjer. That is probably so. Representative Wilson. Did you say that milk is sold at 28 cents a quart in New Jersey ? Dr. Crastek. ' In Newark. Representative Wilson. Twenty-eight cents a quart? Dr. Chaster. That is certified milk. Representative Wilson. What is ordinary milk sold for ? Dr. Craster. Grade B, pastuerized, is sold for 14 cents loose and ] 6 in the bottle. Chairman Haijgex. Sold by the city or by the dealers? Dr. Chaster. The city sells it for 14 cents loose. Chairman Hatjgen. What do you pay the farmer for it? Dr. Crasteb. We pay the farmer 9^ cents. Chairman Haugen. You paid 7 cents last summer. It has ad- vanced ? Dr. Chaster. Yes, sir. Chairman Gronna. The members of the committees are very much obliged to you for the information you have furnishied them. Representative Rainey. The director of pure food and drugs, department of health, city of New York, is represented by Mr. Edward* W. Hoctor, food expert. Mr. Hoctor. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I do not know that I ought to take up your valuable time in adding anything new ; but I wish to state that New York City is heartily in accord with the reports that have been submitted here by the speakers. I might say at the present time that New York City, under the direction of Commissioner Copeland, has started a plan whereby we are to have terminal markets and centers of distribution to overcome stagnation and congestion of foodstuffs. At the present time I believe we have succeeded in reducing the price of milk 1 cent a quart, which takes effect the 1st of February. In regard to the profiteering, as a food expert under the direction of the Bureau of Food and Drugs, I have personally noticed instances where, for ex- ample, a lot of salmon was sold by brokers. It started in at 9 cents COST OF LIVING. 25 :a can, and when it- rea;ched the consumer it was 16 cents a can. 'This consignment of goods never left the warehouse. It was all "done on paper. I think it is up to the Congress to pass some measure whereby this profiteering would be stopped. I know that anything that is sug- .gested by the members of this committee here will be very agreea.ble to New York City. Representative Rainey. Congressman Ward was very anxious that you should hear from Mr. Hoctor. Have you any other representa- tive, Congressman Ward? Mr. Ward. Not that I know of. Representative Rainey. I do not know that there is any other Representative here from any of the States that wishes to be heard, and I think that Director Russell J. Poole, Director of the Bureau of Foods, Market, and Farm Products, of Chicago, will close. Chairman Gronna. Mr. Poole, the committee will be glad to hear you. STATEMENT OF MB,. RUSSELL J. POOLE. Mr. PooLE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I will take up as little •of your time as possible, although I have facts here that I think would offer a most valuable way to spend some of our time. The creation of this bureau and the functions of this bureau have already been explained to you by the gentlemen preceding me. I "have here, I believe, facts to prove what we say with regard to the profiteering and the handling of goods in Chicago. I will touch upon sugar first. The so-called. Equalization Board took hold of the matter in 1914. ( ? ) The market was then 4| cents, with all duty paid. The diffcfrential, for refining the sugar and milling at that time was about 70 cents. It was increased at different times to $1.30, $1.40, and to $1.64 in 1918. In August, when I- started the investigations of this bureau, the facts which we found were these: While there was a set price for sugar, it only acted so as to diveit the sugar from the western countr\', where that price was made. We found, then, that the profiteer stepped in and bought the sugar, and the broker handled the sugar, and the retailer and the consumer had a set price to go by. The manufacturer could pay any price, and therefore obtain what sugar he could get. The consuming public could not get sugar at any price; but through the different methods of handling the sugar, our hands were tied, when we could get any sugar at all. As Dr. Robertson explained to you, we got some 300,000 pounds from these manufacturers for distribution. After the sugar started coming in, the price had soared up until there was no limit ■on the price. The Federal Government informed us that they had lost control of sugar, and we were able to get but little more sugar. The. facts about the handling of the sugar, and the results were, as one gentleman said, that there were laws enacted to overcome that, but nobody could find the laws. There was no way to overcome it, ■due to the fact that your sugar used to be shipped in to the whole- saler and the jobber. To-day, it goes through about seven hands. If Mr. Jones, for example, needs 5 cars of sugar, the broker will tell him he will sell him 10, at a price. Jones will resell the other 26 COST OF LIVING. 5, and they are bought and sold from three to four times before they reach the consumer. As Dr. Eobertson has explained to you, we have got the cases of profiteering in sugar, and that is why we ask for these preliminary hearings. In October, we turned over 28 cases to the Federal attor- ney, and we have the actual proof in every one of how it had been handled to beat this law, without issuing' any bills or leaving any track of the method by which it was handled. Up to this time, there have been three people bound over to the grand jury in connection with the 'handling of sugar, and there were three cases that we had presented. The others are still pending. Representative Anderson. Were they local cases ? Mr. PooLE. Yes; they are Chicago cases. The ones I am referring to are Chicago cases only. Representative Anderson. I mean, were they local sales? Mr. Poole. Yes, sir ; and it happened we were the purchasers. We not only had the bill or the witness, but we had both in every in- stance. Representative Anderson. Is there any law in Illinois against profiteering ? Mr. Poole. I think that is a legal question out of my line. The Lever Food Control Act is the only one that I know of to work un- der ; and I have never yet been able to find anybody who would define what an unreasonable profit was. Nobody has ever named the price, that we could find. However, when they get this sugar, they can hold it for any price, by this method of handling it. When the cases are taken in, it means this. If they can not be brought in immediately and prosecuted at once, it only encourages others to take up that method of doing business. We know personally of a good many millionaires made in Chicago' during the sugar shortage in just that way. It is admitted at that time that there were 450,000 long tons, of 2,240 pounds each, of sugar which arrived during those months. Our fruits were spoiled and wasted because we could not can them. Our re:ords show that dur- ing the first 10 months of that same year we exported 688,343 long tons, of which the British Royal Commission got 80 per cent and resold it, if their records are correct, at $1.14 less per hundred than we could buy it for in Chicago or in the United States. Now, then, after the sugar has come in, the same thing exists. Why? Because they were not afraid, and it was not possible to prosecute or to get immediate action. In November alone the records show that there were exported 64,585 tons, the biggest exportation we have ever had in the history of the United States. The same situation arises in respect to rice. I am only going to name two articles. However, we have the whole line of foods, and I can give you some instances. The general consumption in the United States, as near as can be found, is 500,000,000 bags of rice per annum. Last year the crop was estimated at 16,000,000 bags. Ehie to rains and weather conditions, there was about a 40 per cent loss, but there were actually harvested 10,000,000 bags of rice. In 1914 the Blue Rose rice, the best rice on the market, grown and controlled by the Louisiana Rice & Milling Co., of New Orleans, was 3 cents per pound f. o. b. their factory. COST OP LIVING. 27 Japan has always exported a great deal of rice into this country. They produce about 17,000,000,000 pounds per year, and China and India about 70,000,000,000. This year they did not import any rice into the United States, and they told the different countries they could not give them any rice, because they did not have any surplus. They are even having riceless days there. We have 500,000 bags' of surplus rice. Sumatra, which used to buy from Japan, came into our market, and the first order they placed, and which is now being shipped, was 350,000 bags of rice. During that time this same rice has soared from 3| cents a pound, until to-day your market is 13 cents a pound f. o. b. mill in New Orleans. Chairman Gronna. Have you any tables there you would like tO' submit for the record ? Have you prepared any tables ? Mr. Poou;. On what? Chairman Gronna. On all these questions. We would be glad to have them. . Mr. Poole. I have not any here along this line. I can give you any information you want, and I will be glad to leave you such in- formation or write up any information you want. Chairman Gronna. I am just asking for information, because it might furnish the committee with considerable information if you could leave a copy of such records as you care to. They could be printed, and then you can go into them as fully as you desire your- self. Mr. Poole. Due to the way the cold-storage laws are handling the case — and the reports we get are based on the goods Jound in storage here — we have found that last month there \^eie two eggs for each person in the United States for every one that we had one year ago. But you all know that egg prices soared higher than at any other time in the year, or in past years. But they did not show you that one-third of those eggs are owned by Canada and other countries and are simply being stored here. Your butter conditions were found the same, until butter got up to a dollar a pound. Some of the. for- eign countries, such as the Argentine Republic and Norway, imported 9 shiploads of butter into our country three weeks ago, and could sell at 4 cents a pound less than we could purchase or sell our own butter. Representative Wilson. You speak about the Canadian eggs. You mean American eggs that have been purchased by Canadian people ? Mr. Poole. And stored in Chicago cold storage. One-third of the present stock is owned by Canada. We have found other methods used, which Judge lies started to touch upon, in Michigan. We found that there was sugar sold into Canada when the market here was 10^ cents. We found some of those sugars went ints& Canada and came back with the inside bag and the mark taken off, at a profit. At that time, the market here was 19^ cents. We found, in the wheat situation, that there was going to be a raise in the price of bread. In prewar times, we exported 92,393,775 bushels of wheat. During the last six months of 1918 and the first six months of 1919, that year we exported 181,414,673 bushels of wheat. Representative Anderson. During the six months ? 28 COST OF LIVING. Mr. Poou:. One year; the last six months of 1918 and the first six months of 1919. At the same time, we doubled the exportation ot flour in barrels. You can figure 4| bushels of wheat to a barrel ot flour. • ,1 11 J! J The situation we find in Chicago applies to practically all food- stuffs. I will not go into the different ones. We spoke ot Potatoes here a while ago. About January 6, the potato market wns SM.b5 in Chicago, at the car. The shortage came, and you couldn t get pota- toes in Chicago. The price soared until it reached $4.40 for the ordinary potato from Michigan, and $5.65 for the Idaho potato. We stepped just outside the city limits, and we found in storage where one man alone had 48 cars of potatoes. Another man had 24 cars. Kepresentative McKinley. How many cars of potatoes would they use in Chicago in one day? Mr. PooM. Approximately 32 cars a day, although they handled something like 70. But a great deal of that is shipped in and shipped out. During that time, these potatoes doubled in price in two weeks. These potatoes were held there in anything they could get to store the goods in. That is why we asked for the preliminary hearing in the municipal courts. Eepresentative Wilson. In regard to the potato situation, I have been informed that the potatoes in Michigan could not be moved be- cause of lack of cars. Did that have anything to do with it ? Mr. Poous. That is one feature, the lack of cars and the lack of handling by the shipper. Eepresentative Wilson. Do you think there was any cooperation along that line 'with the men who were handling the potato business in the city of Chicago? Mr. Poole. They seemed to get plenty in to store, but not to sell. During that time, they sat around in the yards and spoiled. I will give you the figures, if you will pardon me just a minute. Representative Tincher. How many days' supply of potatoes for Chicago did you find in storage? Mr. Poole. I did not figure the supply per day. I figured that we use about 30 to 32 cars of potatoes per day in Chicago; but just in the last three weeks we found this amount stored there. Eepresentative Tincher. Forty -eight cars? Mr. Poole. One man had 48 cars. Eepresentative Tincher. There will not be any more potatoes produced for the Chicago market until next winter. Mr. PooLE. How is that ? Representative Tincher. There will not be many more potatoes produced for the Chicago market for several months yet. Mr. Poole. Why not? Representative Tincher. Where are they producing potatoes at this season of the year? Mr. Poole. They are still hung up at the yards in Michigan and Wisconsin, where these people have them stored, and they are not shipped in. They ship them in according to the way they want to regulate the market. Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. The people from Michi- gan can not get cars. Mr. Poole. That may be true ; but the potatoes are held at certain points there. COST OF LIVING. 29 Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. For that reason. Mr. Poole. The spoilage of these goods coming in here — potatoes alone — from December 1, 1917, to January 1, 1920, due to the neglect of the shipper or the transportation, amounted to 957,076 pounds. At the present price of that commodity it would make $48,530.70 worth of potatoes that were wasted right where the shortage was, in the same town. The records show that they stand on the track from two to three weeks. Eepresentative Wilson. Who is responsible for that? Eepresentative Anderson. You do not expect a Federal law to stop that, do you ? Mr. Poole. How is that ? Eepresentative Anderson. You do not expect to get a Federal law enacted to stop that? Mr.- Poole. I had expected that we could get a preliminary hearing in our courts. We could bring these people in and get the facts and turn the facts over to the Federal Government. For instance, take this man who owned 48 cars of potatoes in one place. When we called him in, for lack of jurisdiction we could not get anywhere with him, whereas if we had the right and the authority we could have got the facts right then and there and turned them over to the Government for prosecution. Chairman Hatjgen. Is it not due largely to inefficient transporta- tion service? Mr. Poole. Not necessarily ; no, sir. Chairman Haugen. To illustrate : We could at one time ship our live stock from my home town to Chicago in less than 30 hours. Now We do well if we get it there in three days. It generally takes a week now to market our live stock. Mr. Poole. That is true. Chairman Hattgen. Under private ownership, we could get it to. Chicago in 30 hours. Mr. Poole. Every car that stands around on these tracks storing goods means a ghoiiage of two cars. Chairman Haugen. Why do they stand around? Mr. Poole. They are being held to make the market. That is the way markets are made in Chicago. Then a cold snap comes and they freeze. You speak of your town, Mr. Haugen. . The Wenatchee Valley, of Washington, produced about a $15,000,000 apple crop this year. They are shipped in in less time than you speak of your goods com- ing in. They had the heaviest frost I think they ever had in the his- tory of the country, and due to the fact that the goods were not stored in houses where they were properly taken care of, about 70 per cent of that stock was. lost. Now, you bring in your railroad men; you bring in your commission men; you bring in your ship- per, and they tell you, " We take that loss ; it can not be helped," and try to make you believe that the consumer does not stand that loss, when as a matter of fact he does. The consumer stands for everything, and we find that the lack of prosecution and the exporta- tions have caused and are causing a great unrest and dissatisfaction among the people. . , , t „ You brought up the question of not exporting the wheat, and of getting back to the farms to produce. That is all very well, but .'30 COST OF LIVING. how can a man receive any encouragement to go back to the *^™^ and how can the poor people be encouraged to produce the 'aoor ro handle that wheat if they can not afford to eat it in order to noun&n themselves and enable them to work? It is said that the oanKS have to suspend because they are loaned up. It is just like l neaia a banker say in the cotton market. They have loaned and do loan practically 80 per cent on the warehouse receipts ot everything in your elevators and storages, and the cotton market was ready to drop 5 cents. They can not stand it. Chairman Ghonna. Is it generally known that there was an em- bargo on wheat up to the 15th of November? Mr. PooLE. Yes, sir. „ , i u i Eepresentative Young. You have not heard of any banks break- ing down in the South because they loaned 85 per cent on cotton '. Mr. PooLE. You probably misunderstood me. It did not drop in price. That is what it would take to break them. Representative Young. They ,do not do business that way. Mr. Poole. The directors of a bank do not want to ship everything they have got out of town, so that they can not change a $10 bill for you. • . J i Representative Tin'her. Up to the 15th of November, instead pt using the cars that ought to be used at the seasonable time for mov- ing our surplus wheat, we had left the wheat on the ground and in the granaries, being cared for by producers. Do you not think that the situation since then has had a wholesome effect on the markets and upon the consumer ? Mr. Poole. Absolutely not. Why have you got to raise the price of bread at present? People come running into cur office every day asking such questions. Representative Ti^cher. What do you want to do with the sur- plus wheat? Mr. Poole. We want to sell our surplus wheat. Representative Tinchee. You want an embargo, so that you can take it away from the farmer. Ml'. PooLE. Absolutely not. Representative Tinchee. He is not getting the cost of production. We had an embargo that made him hold it until the 15th of Novem- ber. They released the embargo, but they have no cars to move it, and every farmer that is not wealthy has borrowed up the limit on his wheat. This caused the banks to suspend loans on the wheat. With the supply of cars now, they can not move the wheat crop out of the wheat-pi'oducing section before next harvest, ajid still you ■come here and advocate an embargo on wheat as a remedy. Mr. Poole. Not an embargo on our surplus, but on our needs in America. We should feed ourselves first. Representative Tixchek. There are other parts of America besides these congested industrial centers. You must remember that. Mr. PooLE. I think we have borne that in mind. We try to be fair. We are asking for an embargo, but not on our surplus. It is all right to export our surplus, but we should not export what we need ourselves. Representative Young. Would your business men stand for an em- bargo on manufactured products from their factories, farm imple- COST OF LIVING. " 31 ments, wagons, or automobiles ? Would you advocate an embargo to be applied to all those industries? Mr. Poole. Absolutely, if we had a, shortage. You spoke of your farmer not being able to get the price, that he could not name a price, and that if we limit the price here, we would be robbing the farmer. I will explain that "in this way. You used to be able to go out to any farmer, to drive through the country, and say, " Mr. Farmer, I would like to buy so and so," and you could buy. To-day, if you want to buy anything from the farmer you must drst see the association to which he belongs. I will give you an example. ^ Eepresentative Young. Wait just a minute. My State produces one-third of the cotton produced in this country. I go into town as a farmer with this cotton. Not a word in the world do I have to say about the price of that cotton. I simply take what the local buyer of- fers me. I come in from my farm with my eggs. Not a thing on earth do I have to say about the pric6 for those eggs. I take what my local market offers me. I go to town with my rice. Not a thing on earth do I have to say about the price of that rice. The same thing is true of wheat and corn. We ship whole train loads of cattle to Chicago as producers from the farm, and we are at the mercy of the packers who buy at those yards, and take the price that they offer. We, "as producers, have nothing to say, whereas, in your manufac- turing and industrial centers, it is a matter of bookkeeeping. You name your price, and the consumer has got to pay that price. That is the difference between agriculture and manufacturing and in- dustry. Mr. PooLE. Did you ever ship any of that cattle or stuff that ycfu did not have the market quotations on, the day you shipped ? Representative Young. Certainly. We ship those things from Texas by the solid train to Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City, nnd we do not know whether we are going to get $25 or $50 or any othei price. We have got to take the price that is named. We have abso- lutely no assurajice of what we are going to get. Mr. PoouE. You are from Texas ? Representative Youxg. I am from Texas ; yes, sir ; and helping to feed you people. Mr. PooLE. I might ask you this, then. That is one of the greatest producing centers for the Spanish onion, is it not ? Eepresentative YoX'XG. That is true, and that is a highly organ- ized industry, with just a few aci'es of land, but they have a system by which they get a price. Mr. PooLE. And a beautiful system ! Representative Young. But that is not a drop in the bucket com- pared with the agricultural sections of the country. Mr. PooLE. This proposition does not rest on any one thing. I have listened to you in your argument. In 1914, the Texas onion retailed in Chicago for 3 cents a pound. To-day, it costs 11 cents. We can nOt buy them from these growers. As you say, they are highly organized, and you must talk with the association first. Representative Young. That is true. Mr. PooLE. Now, let us jump from Texas to California. _ The California Dried Fruit Association protects and handles practically the production of the world in that line of food. Your prune, that 32 ■ COST OF LIVING. was 3 cents a pound in 1914, before this association got control of it,, is to-day worth 22^ cents per pound to the jobber, and is retailing at from 40 to 45 cents per pound. Now, we will get back near home. I had in my office the other day the president of the Truck Gardener's Association. He gave us some of his figures. Judge lies can tell you about it. He gave us the cost of his materials, the salary paid to his men, the cost of his machinery, and so forth, and the stuff he used had increased over 100 per cent. He also gave us the prices they were getting through the association on these goods, which showed an Increase of 40O per cent. Representative Rainey. Will you permit me to say just a word here ? Chairman Gronna. Certainly. Representative Rainey. The gentleman from Kansas and the gentler man from Texas are always interested in the man who produces — the farmer. As a member of this committee, and coming from the city, I just want to tell the distinguished gentlemen, when they talk about, only thinking of the great industrial centers and the people in the great industrial centers, that in Chicago we have about one-fortieth of the population of the United States. In the corporate limits of Chicago we have practically as many people as you have in your- whole State. The people of Chicago are not producers, when it comes to edibles. They do not have their garden^ in their back- yards, nor do they have farms, nor are they in a position to stock up with food so that they and their families may live and thrive, as the farmer does. The people of the city are interested in this question. As Dr. Robertson said, there are 500,000 children in Chicago. They have been crying for bread. The people are becoming disturbed. This- committee of gentlemen from the city council of Chicago come here to lay their grievance before the representatives in Congress, and thej' say that we must do something for them. They are interested in transportation and they are interested in production. If it were not for these great industrial centers, like Chicago, you would not have- your farm implements to plow or till your soil. There is a com- munity of interest. Let us not be too selfish, let us recognize that the millions in the cities who must toil and work for a livelihood are entitled to some consideration. They carry the burden of taxation. All that Mr. Poole and this committee are doing here is trying to prevent this howl that is going up not only in Chicago, but all over the United States. Something must be done to alleviate the condition. We are not criticizing the farmers. We want the farmer to get just as much as he possibly can for the things that he produces to sell. We want the men back in these industrial centers who work and sweat for a livelihood to be able to buy the necessities of life at just and reasonable prices. The high cost of living is a pressing problem in the large cities and I have given this matter my most serious consideration in the hope of finding some way of lessening the burdens of those whom I repre- sent. The complexity of the problem, the many counter and cross . currents in it, the multiplicity of interests involved, all these prevent the discovery of an immediate remedy. During the past two years -. COST OF LIVING. 33 I have given more time and study to this matter than to any other subject, and in this connection I have discussed it with the gentleman ■from Texas, Congressman Hatton Sumners, whose ideas on the produce exchange seem to be both constructive and worthy of the stucly of all those interested in the reduction of the present high prices. After the present hearings at my request Congressman Sum- ners will outline his plan to the delegation from Chicago. Mr. Sumners has been invited to Chicago by the aldermanic delegation to address them in the near future and I sincerely hope that he will accept the invitation. Representative Tincher. You are upholding an iniquitous em- bargo on wheat that existed until the 15th of November, which every man knows was injurious not only to the consumer but to the pro- ducer, and which Avould eventually ruin the producer. That would necessarily affect the consumer. You are asking to extend the power to some other man, to put another embargo on, which Mr. Young, myself, and other men in the producing section know is so fatal to the producing section. My answer would be that the remedy you prescribe would starve the few of us who are feeding the world, and hinder production instead of increasing production. The remedy you prescribe here, the embargo on farm products, would have a tendency to hinder production to such an extent that it would work a greater injury to the congested industrial sections than it does even to the producing section. The producing section would feel it first, and would be aware of the iniquities of the practice first. No man from the producing section will agree with the other gentlemen from Chi- cago that the market on wheat up to the 15th of November did any- thing except to work an injustice to every man, woman, and child in the United States, and a further embargo on wheat would have the same effect. Coming from that section, and being familiar with the subject, I could not resist the temptation of telling you that. Eepresentative Eainet. You have anticipated what I did not say. I have not suggested what Mr. Poole said. I am not enough of an economist, nor have I dealt sufficiently with the law of supply and de- mand to be able to suggest a remedy for this. The only suggestion I have to offer isi to try to analyze this situation and see if the costs of the necessities of life can not be reduced to these people who live in the industrial centers and also to those who work on the farms. There is a community of interest. Nor do these men come to tell you that they want particular embargoes. They come here to suggest to you their idea of things, to argue the question through, and between you, to arrive at a happy conclusion, so that America and the Ameri- can people will be well cared for. , Eepresentative Tincher. I think we ought to forget the word " embargo." Mr. Poole. I think you partly misunderstood our ideas about an embargo. We are with the farmer as well as anybody else. I am only able to recite facts as I have found them. I do not know what States you gentlemen here are from, and neither do I care, because we are taking this as a whole, and as we find it in one of the biggest markets in the country. We are asking for the appointment of a com- mission that will handle the exportation of this stuff with a little judgment. You claim the producer did not get his money out of it. 162601—20 3 34 COST OF LIVING. It is exported. The producer does not get the fair value of it, but the man who handles it after he lets go of it becomes a millionaire. Now, you have talked about wheat. I will come back at you thirty times stronger than you went on the other items, and I could give you similar amounts that have been exported — unreasonable amoiinls sent "over — while the price has doubled and trebled here. How can you expect to ask a man to go out and work and produce something that is going across the pond and which he can not get for his children to eat? Dr. Robertson has shown you the condition of children m Chicago. We are all grown up. Meat, and potatoes, and the like will build the tissues of your body; but look what you have done to the children in tlie sugar situation. You have got to have tha sweets of sugar for the fire to build the energy, the same as you have got to have gasoline to run your automobile. If you let these chil- dren come up— your children and my children — unnourished, what are you going to leave here to protect America? Eepresentatve Tincher. Do you not understand that the sugar situation was caused by Government interference ? Do you under- stand that the Sugar Board recommended to the President that he buy the Cuban sugar? Mr. PoouE. My dear sir, here is the first and last word we pub- lished on sugar (handing pamphlet to Mr. Tincher). Representative Tincher. Have you read about sugar ; do you know about sugar? Mr. PooLE. I have. Representative Tincher. Do you know the reason sugar went up was because the refiners were afraid to buy Cuban sugar for fear the Government would buy it all? Mr. PooLE. At 6^ cents a pound. Representative Tincher. You know about that, then? Mr. Poole. Yes, sir. Representative Tincher. But you are advocating more Govern- ment control, which will mean a repetition of that kind of thing? Mi: PooLE. Absolutely not. If you read that, it asks the Govern- ment to keep its hands off, and let the law of supply and demand take its course. But competition has entered in, and the sugar crop from Cuba, until the price is 12^ cents, or somewhere near there. If God Almighty lets your sun shine this year, now that the sugar has left this country, you will have the greatest shortage you ever had in your life next August and September. Think of me when you ,are going through that. Representative Tincher. You are blaming Congress for the sugar situation ? Mr. Poole. I am blaming nobody for anything. I am giving you real facts, and assume that you gentlemen of brains can figure out a remedy. That is why we honored you by putting you here. Representative Anderson. The thing I can not get through my head is why the State of Illinois and the city of Chicago have gone out of business altogether. These propositions which you have pre- sented to us are local sales, you tell me. This stuff is all being stored, so I am informed, within a few miles of the city of Chicago. Mr. Poole. The stuff that was referred to was 74 cars of potatoes that we told you were being stored. COST OF LIVING. 35 Representative Anderson. Yet you expect us to pass a Federal law while, so far as I can find out, the city of Chicago and the State of Illinois are taking no steps at all to deal with this proposition in a local way. Mr. Poom:. I would ask the State to handle that law. Representative Anderson. So far as the legal end of it is con- cerned, the city of Chicago and the State of Illinois Dr. Robertson. We have eminent attorneys in the city of Chicago that have made a very close and careful study of this proposition. We had two of the very best ones we could obtain. They have gone over every step of this law, the Lever law, and every other law, and they have sent us down here to tell you there is no remedy there. Chicago is a trading place for nearly all the West, especially the northern West. Our interstate commerce is working there. How are we going to control the stuff that belongs in Indiana, stored in our storage houses near Chicago? Representative Anderson. If it is in' your storage houses in Chi- cago, it is subject to the laws of Illinois. Mr. PoouE. It is interstate stuff. It belongs to people in Indiana. A man in Indiana will buy his stuff in Michigan, and ship it to our storage houses, to be shipped to him in Indiana when he needs it. It IS foolish for you people to take the attitude that we are. going to control, by a local law, or even an Illinois law, material, in a city the size oi Chicago, with its miles of railroad tracks from all over the United States. It is only passing the buck back to us. Representative Anderson. If you can not control it in the city of Chicago, I do not know how we are going to control it all over the United States. We have passed some laws on that subject. Mr. Poole. You passed the Lever Act, and the Lever Act provides a penitentiary sentence ; but it does not define anything. We have a law here giving definitions of things. The district attorney gets out of it by saying that the definitions are not right. The Lever Act goes out of existence when peace is declared. Then you are left with- out anything in the way of a Federal law to control these profiteers. You have to handle this as a Nation. It is just like an epidemic which breaks out in Michigan. You have to take measures to guard against it in Illinois. Representative Anderson. I am not saying that there should not be Federal legislation. Dr. Robertson. You can not get away from your responsibility by passing the buck back to us, by saying, " Go back home and make your own laws." We have been all through that, every inch of it, with eminent attorneys who have gone into every step of the law. They tell us the only recourse is Congress. That is why we elect Congressmen. That is where the Constitution contemplated that we should get recourse. Chairman Hattgen. Let us get this matter cleared up. I under- stand you now to say that the law is defective and can not be en- forced. The Federal Trade Commission reported certain facts con- cerning the packers, that they were guilty of every evil practice under the sun. The department took it up, and finally compromised, saying, "Instead of sending you to the penitentiary, where you properly belong, we will give you two more years to operate as you 36 COST OF LIVING. have been operating, after that you must do differently." Is the trouble in the law, or in the enforcement of the law ? You propose to abolish one commission and establish another. We have had a number of commissions. Mr. Cotton fixed the prices for the packers. Four of them made $221,000,000 excess profits. Morris ' & Co. made 263 per cent. That is an example of what a commission did. You are asking now to abolish one and create another. You say the law can not be enforced, and you ask for more commissions. In regard to exports, we had an embargo on wheat while the wheat remained with the farmer. But when it reached the speculator the embargo was removed, and exporting is now going on at a profit. You have spoken about hoarding. "We already have a more drastic law in regard to hoarding than we could enact under ordinary condi- tions, but it is not enforced. Possibly your suggestion to transfer the enforcement from the Federal Government to the local authori- ties would have some effect, because the farther you get from home the less efficient administration you have. Dr. EoBEETsoN. I am saying to you what I said to the Attorney General in Chicago. He made a speech of an hour and a quarter. I very nearly broke up the meeting in Chicago. I struck a minor note by telling him we were sick and tired of talk, and that what we wanted was action. We had 28 ciises on the sugar proposition. If we could have initiated prosecution and bound them over to the grand jury, we would have stopped it right then 'and there. We come here presenting a plan. We do not say this plan is perfect; but you must have something to discuss, something to work on. We do say, however, that there ought to be some intelligent brain to say what we should ship out of America and what we should keep here. I do not say you should make a hard-and-fast rule, but there ought to be some way to say what we should ship out and what we should keep here, especially in view of the chaotic condition of the entire world. Otherwise, we might ship everything we had. Eepresentative Andeeson. What is to be the rule ? Dr. EoBEETsoN. You are the doctors, and we are giving you the evidence. Chairman Hatjgen. We are here to hear the evidence. The testi- mony has been very interesting and instructive. I am heartily in accord with some of the suggiestions that have been made. You say you are willing to extend the embargo all along the line. When you cut off exports you cut off the depaand. When you cut off the demand from abroad that means less production. Less pro- duction means less labor, which increases the number of unemployed. Are you willing to throw the people in your State out of employ- ment ? Dr. EoBEETsoN. I do not think that is logical, for this reason : We are not asking you to cut off exports. Chairman Haugen. An embargo cuts off exports. Dr. EoBEETsoN. We are only asking you not to export anything we need ourselves at home. That is all we have asked you to do. Eepresentative Andeeson. What is to be the rule? The consump." tion of wheat per capita, if my recollection serves me correctly, runs all the way from 2-J bushels to 7^ bushels, depending on the amount which is in the country and the general financial conditions of the COST OF LIVING. 37 country. Are you going to fix the amount which we need in the country on the basis of a consumption of 2^ bushels or 7^ bushels? It you fax It at 2i bushels, the country will starve. If you fix it at 7A, the farmer will go out of business. mP^'a ^*^'*^?'fso]sr. That would be the very first thing to ascertain. The first thing to ascertain would be what we need per individual. We will say, for example, that Jones raises buckwheat. He has six people in his house. How much buckwheat flour are they going to use and how much wheat flour? Chairman Haugen. You said you found there were two eggs to one this year. How did you ascertain that fact? Mr. PootE. We had just twice the amount of eggs in storage we had the year before. Chairman Hattgen. Based on the reports made by the Department of Agriculture? Mr. PoouE. No ; on our own survey. Our men went through each and every house and checked and numbered every case. Chairman Hatjgen. That statement has reference to the city of Chicago and not to the country as a whole ? Mr. PooiiE. That is as far as we could go. In answer to your question, we are asking for some sort of a bureau where we can get the exact consumption, so that we will know what to work on. You say the per capita consumption jumped from 2^ bushels to 7 bushels. For your information I will tell you that all the reports obtainable in the United States, figured down, show exactly 5^ bushels per capita. Eepresentative Anderson. Of course, the general average is per- haps around that, but the reports which I have examined — and they have been quite voluminous — indicate that the consumption is far from a constant quantity, and that in years of small production in this country, and in years of depression such as 1898, 1893, and 1894, the consumption is very much less than it is in timed of great pros- perity and large production. You would have a vast quantity of basic materials upon which you would have to determine, I assume, what the consumption of the country should be. I do not think that ought to be left to the judgment of any one man or of any one com- mission. Mr. PooLE. You have approximately what it takes per person, and you know how many people you have and you can find how much wheat you have. Export your surplus, but if we need so many million bushels to feed us here, let us have it here first. Representative Anderson. Sometimes we have a market for our export and sometimes we do not. When wo do not have a market for export we have to sell it here, no matter what the price is. Mr. PooLE. If you need 500,000^000 bushels of wheat and you have 600,000,000 bushels, you have 100,000,000 you can fiet rid of, and it won't hurt anybody. But if you send out 2,500,000 and leave the rest here to half feed the people, where are we going to get off? That is what we are asking for, a commission to figure out a com- monsense embargo on too much shipping, and only allowing the ship- ment of the surplus across the sea. Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. I wanted to ask Mr. lies a question. Have you conferred with the Attorney General as 38 COST OF LIVING. to the necessity of a definition of profiteering and hoarding, in addi- tion to what is in the Lever law ? Mr. Iles. We have not. Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. The Attorney Creneral has been before the committee of the House several times respecting this Lever law, and he never has suggested to us the need of an amendment in that direction. Eepresentative Rainey. I would say to Mr. McLaughlin that we have arranged an appointment with the Attorney General for to- morrow morning at 10 o'clock, for Judge lies to discuss the legal phase of this thing. Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. We have given the At- torney General everything by way of amendment that he Jias asked for. The only criticism that we have of him is that he has not en- forced certain sections of the law that we think would be effective if they were enforced. The license feature of that law is very ef- fective. It did some good during the war, when he took advantage of it, He could even reach the retailer, by issuing licenses to whole- salers and large dealers, under the terms of which they should not deal with retailers who sold at an improper price. But he has said he has determined that that remedy should no longer be applied. He never suggested to us an amendment, such as you think is neces- sary, giving a definition and putting it into the law, as to what prof- iteering and hoarding are. Mr. Ii.ES. We will put that up to the Attorney General and see what can be done. But let me explaili. The discovery of imper- fections in machinery occurs in the shop. In government, it occurs in the locality. Now, it is not to be expected that the Attorney General or the Department of Justice would know all about the working of the legal machinery. He might, and he might not, until it was called to his attention, think of a thing which would be; a great improvement. Now, we come here with this suggestion because we have found an impediment here that ought to be removed and that we think ought to be remedied. We come to the appropriate committee in the first instance, and we do not come in the spirit of criticism. Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. We do not care for criticism. We want you to tell us what you think about it. Mr. Iles. What we think about it is this : That either it has not been called to their attention, or else they have desired to keep it under their hat, one or the other, if you want my honest, outspoken Kentucky opinion of it. Representative Wilson. We have given him all that he asked for in the way of legislation, and also $1,000,000 extra funds to- prose- cute these cases. Mr. Iles. That is true. Representative Wilson. Now, I do not know what else we can do until people like you come to us with new ideas. Mr. Iles. Now with reference to that, the Attorney General, I believe, would not oppose this. But I do not know. We know it will untie our hands and enable local powers to act. We drew it up in contemplation of what we know is going to happen. The Senate some day will agree on some kind of a peace. We know that the COST OF LIVING. 39 Lever Act is a war measure. We know that it can not be enforced as a war measure after peace is declared. We know that we have to go back to constitutional control. Representative McLaughlin of Michfgan. That is a matter of the life of the Lever Act. Mr. Iles. We seek to have definitions that will enable the court to instruct the jury properly, and something that will give the local authorities power to hold preliminary examinations in the United States courts. We do not seek to have any of the powers of the United States transferred back to the States again, but we do wish that they would extend jurisdiction, which has been done in other matters of this kind, to these local courts. Of course, that is a mat- ter to be addressed to the Judiciary Committee. Coming up here in my ignorance and rusticity, I do not know anything about the modus operandi, but I was assuming that you were honest men, and that you would assume I was, and that you would excuse my blunders on the ground of ignorance and consider this matter in the spirit in which it is ojffered. Kepresentative Wilson. I think we have done that. Judge Iles. Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. There is a serious ques- tion as to whether we can reenact that Lever law. The war power of the Constitution was invoked during the war. That was proper and constitutional during time of war. It is very doubtful if it could be extended in time of peace. Mr. Iles. We do not think it can. That is a matter that the law- yers and courts will have to decide. But this is constitutional. Everything we have proposed here we have tried to keep within the Constitution, so that it can be enforced after the Lever Act goes out. Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. In your experience have you found it customary or necessary, to the extent to which you have gone here, to give a definition of a crime ? Mr. Iles. That is what is true in regard to practice in ciiminal law. If there is no definition given by the legislature, if there is a common- law definition, that is applied. Where there is no common-law defini- tion, and no definition given in the statute, the court then must con- strue the law and make a definition. So, that definition does not be- come a rule of law until it is passed upon by the highest court. It may be a rule of law in that court. For instance, in a United States matter, it might have to travel all the way from the State court up to the United States Supreme Court. In a State matter it would have to go to the State supreme court before it would become a rule that would be binding upon all the courts in instructing the jury as to what constituted a crime under that j)articular act. Now, then, is it not wiser for us to define in the beginning ? However, if we should define a common-law act absolutely contrary to the common law, un- less it should be held to be a repeal of the common law, the court would foUow the common-law rule anyhow. For example, there is the common-law rule for regrading. There is a pommon-law rule for that, so we just mention it by name. In regard to those matters m which there is not a common-law rule, we seek W have ^^^Mmf^l^y body give a definition. .,. „., '"' Ivl'^^' Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan When a man is prose- i'^^'^ • DEFT. OF AGRIC ECON. 40 COST OF LIVING. Mr. Iles. It is not altogether a cfuestion of fact. It is just like a case that was brought to my attention in a brief that I had to write the other day. The opposing side said it was a question of fact for the jury. In my reply brief! said that is.true, it is a question of fact as a. fact for the jury; but, nevertheless, there is a proposition of law involved determining the application of that fact to this particular case. Therefore it is subject to instruction by the court. But if the court does not give an instruction applying it, then the jury is the judge of the fact and the law both. That would be the case here. Take, for example, the matter of usury. Suppose I am a money lender, and a case comes up where some one has loaned money to somebody else, and I am sitting upon a jury with a man who is a borrower. Suppose the question of usury should come up. In the absence of a law defining usury, where the law simply saidusury was the charging of an unreasonable rate of interest, you know that my idea, as a money lender, as to what was an unreasonable rate of inter- est would be entirely different from the man who was a borrower. Any-banker will see that in a minute. We have this question coming up in all these matters of litigation, in civil matters as well as crim- inal matters. Hence the necessity for a clear definition. In other words, it is a warning to a man that he is about to commit an offense. If he knows exactly what the offense consists of, he is going to be more cautious and not come within that line. There is the proposi- tion. Now, in regard to the exporting, I want to apologize for using that term " embargo." We never thought about it having such a senti- mental influence; but we often find, with other people, the same as with ourselves, that there is a great deal of sentiment attached to words. There is a certain odium attached to certain words in the minds of certain people. I see there is an odium attached to the word " embargo." We do not mean that this Congress should pass an act declaring an embargo, but that there should be some means to determine what amount there should be shipped out, to intelligently control the situation. Representative Wilson. In other words, you want this commission created for the purpose of regulating exports? Mr. Iles. And, if necessary, before the}' could declare an embargo they might have to go back to Congress. That is a principle that ought to be applied, in good business. It is a good principle in banking, and why shouldn't it be good in everything else ? Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. I have wondered if the people of the States have been doing all they can and have been pro- ceeding properly. What you said about the price of milk, for in- stance, appeals to us. We know it is true. Now, in Illinois you have a law against combinations to extort unreasonable prices, as they have in some other States. Some time ago the dairymen in the vicin- ity of Chicago got together and, as I remember, agreed on a price or sought to get a price from the dealers in the city of about 7^ cents. They were proceeded against as an illegal combination to fix an un- reasonable price. It turned out, as it did I suppose, in the trial, as you gentlemen have testified here, that the dealers in Chicago are charging 15, 16, and 18 cents. They are charging as high as 18 cents a quart for it, and nothing was ever done with any of the dealers who combined to exact that price. The same situation developed in COST OF LIVING. 41 Cleveland, and in the city of New York. They always proceed against the farmers and the dairymen, who are asking about 7^ cents a quart, whereas dealers in the city were asking all the way from 15 to 20 cents. Mr. Iles. I think the trouble there probably is the same trouble that arises from the extensive organization of labor axid of industries of different kinds. We have an unreasoning- fear of these combina- tions. Now, if I could go into that I could easily show that between the farmer and the baby who drinks the milk there is a good deal of exploitation. Whether or not we could reach that by any criminal prosecutions I would not pretend to say at this time. But when you begin to regulate at the foundation, you will find that the regulation and the settling will be like the settling of a house. It will all come down to place, as the foundation comes down. Now, with the attempt to enforce our State laws, the trouble about so many of them is that there are no definitions of any of these things, and it is left to the courts and the juries. I did not follow this milk investigation at all, because at that time I was not in- terested in it. I was not connected with this bureau, although I served during the war, and with the Government, on food adminis- tration in Illinois all the time. But these things did not come up, so that I have not critically analyzed them. I would not say that I was competent to explain that lawsuit, or anything about it. But the general principle is this : That the people respect the Government of the United States more than they do their local authorities, and when the United States moves, and the machinery is prepared and put in motion so that the law becomes effective, it is much better than State laws. Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. I am not a good enough lawj'er to know entirely what you mean by these prelim- inary examinations, making them easier and more expeditious. Do- you suggest that some State or local authorities be permitted to make an investigation and hold for a grand jury? Mr. li.ES. This is the situation- As a local bureau, we are not empowered by State law or the United States law to coerce any- body to give testimony, or even appear before us. We have to go- out as ordinary investigators, just as secret-service investigators. Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. You get the evidence? Mr. Iles. We get the evidence and the facts. No^w, then, the De- partment of Justice is overloaded. They are investigating at the present time this Bolshevik exportation proposition. They are inves- tigating great questions of all kinds all the time — deportations and all that sort of thing. I suppose that their force is limited. "We have sent up there 28 cases in which we had obtained evidence — s-uch evi- dence as in our judgment would be sufficient to convict — and 'Ve laid' those cases before the district attorney. Three of them, I think, have progressed, after some six or eight weeks, to an indictment. The in- dictment in a case of that kind has a restraining effect. It is ahnost equal to a conviction — not that a man is going to be convicted, but it has a restraining influence. Now, if we could go to the local courts on information and have a hearing, compel the witness to come in- and testify, we would present the matt* to the United States De- partment of Justice in a concrete form. 42 COST OF LIVING. Eepresentative McLaughlin of Michigan. Do you mean, to have this hearing before a special court? Mr. Iles. Yes, sir. Representative McLAtrGHLiN of Michigan. Later to be presented to the United States court? Mr. Iles. To be held over to the United States court. In other words, to give the State courts practically the powers of United States commissions, and to give them the initiative to make thu complaints directly to the courts. Representative McLatjghlin of Michigan. Have you a draft of that? Mr. Iles. We have a draft of that bill. Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. To permit that pro- ceeding and provide for it? Mr. Iles. Yes, sir ; the only reason I didn't read it here is because of the fact that I didn't want to transgress any of the courtesies of different committees and bring it before the wrong committee. Representative McLaughlin of Michigan. That is what you speak of as intended for the Judiciary Committee ? Mr. Iles. It is intended for Congress, but would naturally go to the Judiciary Committee, I am informed. Mr. William R. Fetzee (representing city council of Chicago), On behalf of the city council of Chicago, under whose auspices we are here, we are certainly grateful for the courtesy you have shown and the patience you have exhibited. We are not here to criticize. We are here for help. If our Chicago Congressmen could go home and stay there for two or three months and mingle with their con- stituents, the same as we aldermen do, they would hear rumblings, and they would hear complaints, and they would see evidence of great dissatisfaction. We think we have investigated this thing sufficiently to inform us that there is something radically wrong. As our representatives, we ask you to do what you can, to do as you see fit, and help us out. The prices keep going up. I am informed the producer gets $7,50 for the wool that goes into a suit of clothes which costs us $90. The people on the street say they do not get it; the retailer says he does not get it. The question is, who gets it? That is a question that is ask^d us every day. There is something wrong somewhere, and we ask you gentlemen down here, with the advantages you have, to help us out. Representative Wilson. There has been something wrong for a good while. Representative Rainet. May I suggest to Mr. Fetzer that I speak the sentiments of the Illinois delegation when I say that the message you may take back to Chicago is that the Illinois delegation is in sympathy with the suggestions offered here to-day, and that we will do everything within our power to help bring about the ideas that you have suggested. I feel the committee will work in harmony and unison with us. Chairman Geonna. I believe this concludes the hearing. The committee is very much obliged to you. Representative Rainet. If any of these gentlemen desire to extend their remarks, may they be permitted to do it? Chairman Haugen. I think the material referred to by Mr. Poole in this table would be very interesting. COST OF LIYIiNG. 43 Representative Tincher. I think the proposed bills might go in the record. Chairman Gronna. We will leave that to the chairman. Chairman Haugen. We are very grateful to all of you for appear- ing before the committee. (Thereupon, atl o'clock p. m., the hearing was closed.) (The bills referred to are printed as follows:) STATE COURT ENABLING ACT. A BILL To autborize and empower courts of record In the States and Terrltoriea of the United states, having jurisdiction in actions in criminal cases, to cause to be arrested and to imprison or hold to ball for trial before the United States or Territorial courts, persons violating any of the provisions of the interstate commerce laws of the United states relating to food, food products, or other necessaries. Be it enacted hy the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of American in Congress assembled, That this act may be cited as the State court enabling act In interstate commerce; that wherever used in this act the word " person " means an individual, a partnership, a corporation, or two or more individuals having a joint or common interest ; the words " food " and " food products " mean any substance, combination or mixture designed or intended for use as human food or for use In feeding live stock or poultry ; the words " interstate commerce " and the words " in commerce " mean com- merce among the several States or between any State, Territory or the Dis- trict of Columbia, and any foreign nation, or between any Territory or the District of Columbia and any State, or from any State, Territory, or Dis- trict of the United States to, through, or within any State, Territory, or Dis- trict, or through any foreign country to or within any State, District, or Ter- ritory of the United States ; the term " necessaries " includes any product or by-product that is or may be manufactured into food for human beings or dornestic animals or poultry, fuel, wearing apparel, or any other necessity to life. Including building material. Sec. 2. Concurrent jurisdiction with the courts and commissioners of the United States is hereby conferred upon all courts of record in any State or Territory now existing, or which may hereafter be created, having a seal, a clerk, and jurisdiction at law in criminal cases, to issue process and arrest, examine and imprison, or bail for trial before the United States or Territorial -courts having cognizance of the offense, all persons violating any of the penal provisions of the interstate commerce laws relating to the production, preserva- tion, storage, transportation, transfer, sale, delivery, waste or destruction of food, food products, or any other necessary. Sec. 3. For the purposes of this act the several courts are empowered to issue all necessary processes, including warrants for arrest, and to compel the attendance of witnesses, and the production of books, papers, and records to be used in evidence, and to punsh^for contempt for refusal to obey the processes or orders of the court. Information upon which warrants may issue, may be presented by the United "States District Attorney, the attorney general of the State or Territory, or any State, county, district, or municipal attorney, supported by sworn com- plaint in conformity with the laws of the State or district in criminal cases. Process may be served and arrests made by the United States marshal or any State, county, district, or municipal officer authorized by law to serve war- rants and make arrests within the territorial jurisdiction of the court issuing the warrant or other process. Sec. 4. This act shall be in force and effect from and after its passage. JANUABY 21, 1920. ANTIPKOFITEBEING ACT. :A bill To define prohibit; punish and provide penalties for profiteering In thel sale and distribution of food, food products, wearing apparel, fuel, and other commodities in Interstate commerce, and for other purposes. . Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That this act may be cited as the United States antiproflteering act. Sec. 2. (A) That wherever used in this act: (1) The term "person" includes individual, partnership, association, or corporation. (2) The term "necessary" Includes any product or by-product which is, or may be, manufactured into food for human beings, domestic animals, or poultry, 44 COST or LIVING, fuel, wearing apparel, or kny otlier commodity necessary to life, including building materials. (3) The term " commerce " means commerce between any State, Territory, District, possession, or foreign nation, and any other State, District, Territory, or possession, or from any State, District, Territory possession or foreign na- tion, or within any Territory, District, or possession, or between points in the same State, but through any other States or any Territory, District, possession, or foreign nation. (4) Any word shall import the plural or the singular as the case demands. (5) The term "hoarding" means wilHul withholding, whether by possession or under any contract arrangement, combination, or device from the market by any person for the purpose of, or to the effect of, forestalling the market, or creating a monopoly or unreasonably affecting the price of any necessary. (6) The term "profiteering" means: (a) Hoarding; (&) the buying and liolding'or selling for profit any necessary by any person who is not engaged in, and holding himself out as engaged in the line of trade in such necessary; (c) deriving or charging an unreasonable profit on any necessary by any person engaged in the line of trade in any necessary by any fraud, device,! combina- tion, or circumvention; (d) combining or conspiring with others to derive an unearned profit by unnecessary or fraudulent resales of any intermediaries or dealers of the same class in the line of trade from the producer or manufac- turer to the consumer according to the usual custom of the trade; (e) will- fully destroying, withholding, or delaying by any device, combination, or other means any necessary in commerce in transportation or delivery for the pur- pose of forestalling the market or affecting the price; (f) hoarding as defimed in paragraph 5 out of commerce, and releasing, selling, distributing, or trans- porting in commerce, receiving in or through commerce and hoarding out of commerce. (7) The term "unreasonable, or exorbitant profit" means a profit in excess of the usual and customary profit on any necessary, allowed or usually added in the line of trade in such necessary. (6) In construing or administering the provisions of this act: (1) Whenever the act, omission, or failure of any person acting for an individual, partnership, association, or corporation within the scope of his office, employment, agency of other authority granted him results in a viola- tion of this act, such Individual partnership, association, or corporation as well as such preson, shall be guilty of such violation ; and (2) Any director or member of the governing board of any association or corporation or any officer, employee, or other agent, of any partnership, asso- ciation, or corporation who (i) personally undertakes, participates in, aids or abets, consents to, authorizes or conspires to effect any act, omission, or failure in violation of this act, or («) in the execution of the functions vested iii him negligently omits to perform any act or to properly apportion duties among or to supervise his subordinates. In consequence of which a violation of this, act results, shall, as well as the partnership, association, or corporation which he represents be guilty of such violation. Sec. 3. It shall be unlawful for any person to hoard or profiteer as herein - defined, and any person who shall be guilty of hoarding or profiteering as de- fined In this act shall upon conviction be punished by a fine not exceeding $10,000 and imprisoned in the penitentiary not more than 10 years. Sec. 4. All courts of record In any State, District, Territory, city or depend- ency, having criminal jurisdiction, are hereby, empowered to arrest, examine, and Imprison or bail for trial in the United States or Territorial court having cognizance of the offense, persons guilty of profiteering or hoarding, upon In- formation of the United States district attorney, the Attorney General, States attorney, or any prosecuting attorney In the State, Territory, District, or de- pendency where the offense is committed. Sec. 5. That this act shall take effect and be in force from and after its passage. Sec. 6. That no provision of. this act shall be deemed to repeal or limit the operation of any provision of any other act of Congress unless directly in conflict therewith. Sec. 7. That if any provision of this Act or the application of -juch provi- sion to certain circumstances to, be held unconstitutional the remainder of the act and the application of such provision to circumstances other than tliose as to which it is held unconstitutional shall not be affected thereby. X