Cornell University Library The original of tliis book is in tine Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924027999915 Cornell University Library DA 68.12.W45S78 3 1924 027 999 915 DATE DUE ., ■j,.ij^-'<^ I m^. Wit ~A i— \mm i^mai k jiff^^i^ mmmS^ iiiii^iM>mifit>^ i\/y u *y ^f^-- - . ^^^M l-^-^ »*i^ GAYLORD PRINTEDINU.S.A. "tins SIS NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, 1831-1851. NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 1831-1851. By PHILIP HENRY, 5TH EARL STANHOPE. NEW YORK: LONGMANS, GREEN, AND CO., 15 EAST i6tli STREET, 1888. PREFACE. " My first familiar acquaintance with tlie Duke of Wellington took its rise from a highly favourable and: partial account which he received of a speech which I made against the Eeform Bill in the House of Commons, ]March 22, 1831 — the second time that I spoke in Parliament. " After this I saw the Duke not unfrequently, and I had several conversations with him upon politics. I did not, however, take any notes of the Duke's con- versations until the close of October, when I met him for some days in Suffolk on a visit to the Marcpiis of Hertford. " Subsequently I went to pass some weeks with my grandfather. Lord Carrington, at Deal Castle ; and I was then a near neighbour to the Duke at Walmer. " These notes were in all cases — but once in April 1838 — written or dictated by me to Lady Mahon either on the same day or at furthest the day after the conver- sations which they record ; and I have never noted any- thing when not quite sure of remembering it exacth*. I can therefore vouch in the most confident manner for the certain accuracy of what I have here set down. "It was my general wish- — subject only to slight exceptions, and on as I thought good grounds — to con- fine these records to what I may call past history, and vi PREFACE. to omit the Duke's observations on our current affairs or the home politics of the day. " I find, on reperusing tliese notes, some stories more than once repeated, as must liappen of course in immerous conversations at long inter^■als of time. I find also some passages or names which it would be right to leave in blank from regard to personal feelings. " But although in such a case some things might be omitted, there should be nothing changed. These notes — the impress of a master-mind upon mine — should stand with all their freshness and distinctness of their original die." So wrote my father in August 1862. Acting in the .spirit of his memorandum, I have felt it right not to alter the text of his records, even where repetition was obvious. But a few notes have been added, giving the references to other publications since my father's time, where some of the recorded stories have been anticipated. It is I believe quite impossible for any one who reads these records and compares them with the versions told either in the Croker or in the Greville Papers, not to be struck, first with the fact that the main statements of the Duke have never varied, even after the lapse of many years, and secondly, with the fidelity with which both Mr. Croker and my father have evidently recorded his conversations. STAl^HOPE. September, 1886. P.S. — The interest excited hij these ]}ages, wlien privately printed and read hy a small circle, has induced me to offer the volume to the public, to whom every authentic record of the great Duhe must ahuays le ivelcome. S. Septemler, 1888. CONTENTS. Sudhoum. — l*ower of tlie priests in Spain — King Ferdinand and the Juntas — Lord Peterborough. — Battlefields — Marlborough's advance on Paris — Don Juan de Halen — Jovellanos — Talley- rand — The Bristol Eiots — Coining money for the army — Soult and St. Simon — The Allies at Paris — Napoleon's plan for the defence of Paris — Marmont — Napoleon's genius — French, English, and Spanish soldiers — Baylen — Palafox — Eomana — Sylveira — Sir E. Donkin's message at Talavera — Sir John Moore's campaign — Lord Londonderry in Vienna — Napoleon's Parisian campaign — His impatience — Cholera — Promotion from the ranks — Harangues to Soldiers — What the English army is composed of — Lord Peterborough and the nuns of Cuenca — Dan JIackinnon — Sir J. Whittingham's Marriage — Criticisms of Napoleon — Ligny — Blucher and the Pont de Jena Page 1 — 16 B-eal Castle. — Napoleon's march from Cannes to Paris — Marching in India — The Guards and the Line — Drunkenness in the English anny^Mili,tary punishments — Promotion from the ranks ........ 16 — 18 Dinner at Wahner Castle. — The Belgian troops — Napoleon at Waterloo — Soult — Massena, the ablest of Napoleon's Generals — Story of the French spy — The Duke's plans after Toulouse — Spanish troops — How the Duke won a battle for them — Baylen — Medina de Eio Seco — Eomana — La Valette's Memoirs — Napoleon's memory ..... I'j — 24 Buck Huntincj at WaldersJiare Par/L.— Size of soldiers — Good marchers — Napoleon's escape from Elba — The Congress of Vienna— St. Helena 24—27 D-taner at Wahner Castle. — Madness and Madmen— General * * * —Lord Castlereagh 27—28 viii CONTENTS. Dover and Wahntr Cattle. — Duke of "Wellington and Mavlliorotigh — Coincidences in their lives — Alava's horror of cold meat — George IV.'s memory' — Lord Byron and Democracj- — Lord Brougham— Lord J. Eussell and the Eeform Bill Pucje 28 — 20 Dinner at Wahner Castle. — Contagion and infection — MarlboroughV letters — His difficulties with the Allies — Marlhorough and Xai^oleon — Waterloo and Malplaquet — Loss of confidence in Napoleon — Louis XVIIL- — Charles X. — Louis XYIIL's diseased state — The Eeform Bill — English and Trench mobs — Letter to Mr. Foster on prospects of Ireland — Lord Mahon's contest at Hertford and journey abroad . . 30 — 3G Walk iuiih the Buhe. — The early life of Louis Philippe — Egalite — ■ Comparison of Louis XVIII. and Charles X.^ — Prospects of. European peace — Louis Philippe's ability — His position — Affairs of Spain — George Villiers — Zea Bermudez — Sir S. Canning's instructions— The Congress in Bohemia — Remi- niscences of Kolica and Vimiera — Don Bernardim Freire — Due Mathieu de Montmorency .... 3C — 41 Dinner at Walmer Castle.- — Disturbed times and able men — Education — Villele — Lord Castlereagh's readiness in debate — Compared with Canning — Wealth of the Dutch — Spanish affairs — Value of Corporations — The Catholic question — The Duke asked to' go to Ireland — Catholic Emancipation in Ireland — The Union — Massena, the ablest of Kapoleoirs Generals — Anecdotes of Cuesta — Fighting against superior numbers in the Peninsula — Numbers killed at Waterloo — Duke of Orleans ....... 41 — 47 htratlifieldsaye. — Spanish affairs — Tendency to independence in provinces — Ferdinand VII.'s reversal of Salic law — Louis XVIII.'s flight — Excellence of the Duke's Indian despatches — The ford at Assaye — The statue near Seringapatam — Shoot- ing at St. Germains and Versailles — Casper Hauser- — Savages — A " Wild Irishman " — Andaman Islanders — Severe cold in Spain before Salamanca — Cost of travelling in Spain — O'Lawler's comments — The Cabildo — Prospects of union with Portugal — Don Carlos and the priests — The Spanish army — Napoleon and Marmont — Soult and Suchet — Dupont — Foy and the English newspapers — The French spy " Juan de la Kosa " — Anecdote about him — The Grandees, their vrant of influence — Duchess cf Benavente — Duke of Infantado . 4b^5G CONTENTS. ix, London. — Charles X. and James II. — The Duke's Indian Despatches — The Duke's long rides in India — Siege of Gameghur — Colonel Murray — In Guzerat and at Tarragona — ■ Suohet and St. Cyr — Napier's History — Unfounded statements — Story of Mr. Canning and tlie. Portuguese troops before Waterloo — Napoleon's army at Waterloo — His errors — Tlie subsistence of troops — Criticism of Napoleon's generalship — The Advance on Paris in 1815 — Correspondence about Indian Despatches — Marriage of Lord Stanhope — The Duke's " brief Dictatorijhip " in 1834 — Sir E. Peel's administration PcKje 56 — 63 Deal. — The French Revolutionists — Pasquier and Robespierre — Philippe Egalite — Napoleon and Bcrthier — Groucliy's position at Waterloo — Soult and Napoleon — Escape from Elba — Memoirs of James IE. — Charles L and Charles II.— Clarendon's History — Treatment of Napoleon at St. Helena — Mr. Leith of Deal — Lady W. Bentinck and her doctors — Picton — Miranda's mention of him — His subsequent career — Miranda's plan for S. America — Dumouriez — The Duke's management of him — One of the Duke's maxims — Don Carlos and his generals — French spy in the Peninsula — Correspondence about motions in the House of Commons concerning events at Cracow — On France, &c 64—75 London. — Attempt on the life of Louis Philippe — Assassinations — Attempts on the Duke's own life, in Paris, &c. — Lord Kinnaird — Publication of Vol. vi. of Despatches— The French at Santarem — Discovery of cyphers — General Iniaz at Bada- jos . . . . . . . . 75 — 78 Deal. — -Relative age — Madrid and the Cortes — Madrid compared to Canterbury — Maria Pepa and the Queen of Spain — Grandees — Character of Marlborough — Eoyal establishments in Prance and England — Colonel Woodford's excavations at Agincom-t — The Duke's proceediiigs after Waterloo — Martello towers and coast defences — The war in La Vendee — The Kin;; of the Netherlands — ^Clerks in the English and French War Oflices — Balloons in war-time — Balloons and boats — ^The Duke's computations of his soldiers killed in Spain — Lady Salisbury and Lady Ebury — Civil War in Portugal in 1827 — Small losses — The English aristocracy — The Duke's field-glasses — Lady Carmarthen — Differences of testimony — Colonel Bevan at Almeida — General Brenier — Why the Duke arrived too late at K CONTENTS. Albuera — Beresford — Bad behaviour of Spaniards — Tlie Portu- guese Eegency — Mons. de Forjas — Xapoleuu's saying about tlie sublime and the ridiculous — Princess tJliarlotte — Queen Caroline and the Coronation of George IV. — ^\'ant of trees in Central Spain ...... Pac/e 78 — -93 StnUhfiddsaye. — French reverse at Constantine-^Deteiioration of French soldiers since the time of Napoleon — The cause — D'Argenton — Charles X. — Anecdote of Comte d'Artois and Prince de Condc — The ktter at Waterloo . . 93 — 95 Lonilon. — Correspondence about diplomalio relations between England and Home — Don Sebastian's expedition — Difficulty of moving troops in Spain — Characteristics and peculiarities of Napoleon — MarmonL's travels — Prince Polignac — Dues de Berri and d'Angouleme ...... 95 — 99 Wahner and Deal. — Mots of Talleyrand about Chateaubriand — and Due d'Orleans — French officers and their glasses — Anecdote about Bradshaw — Lookhart's " Life of Scott " — Cliarles V. and Francis I. — Sir AValter Scott — TlieDuke's memoir on Napoleon's Kussian campaign — The Duke's criticisms on the retreat from Moscow — Napoleon's impatience — " We starved him out in Spain" — Queen Ilortcnse — Napoleon not a personality but a principle — Anecdote of Talleyrand — The Duke's good health — Louis XVIII. — The despatches, vols, viii.-ix. — Letters to Lord W. Bentinck and Baron Constant — The Itubios in Spain — Climate of St. Helena — Lord Bathurst — Napoleon's discontent — Congress of Aix-la-Chapelle — French in Algiers — Ecsults of the Heform Bill — Defects of Spanish armies — Incident at San Marcial — Inferiority of Spanish officers — The Duke's kindness to children — The French at Constantine — Bourmont — The Duke's visit to the Prussian position before Waterloo — Its defects — Blenheim — The French at Ligny — Hardinge's anec- dote of Blilcher — Incidents of the battle of Waterloo — " Koughiug it "—Pitt's finance . . . 99—112 Strathfieldsaye. — The Reform Bill — Affairs of Portugal — Marshal Wrede's information about Napoleon's campaign of 1809 — Samuel Piogers — The monastery of San Juste — Anecdote of Jlr. Pitt and the volunteers — Rogers' pun — First news of Waterloo — Croker and the Duchesse d'Angouleme — The Escurial — Lord Byron's speech — Increase of population in England — Birth of Lord Stanhope's eldest son . 112 — 110 CONTENTS. xi Walinei: — Importance of roads from a military point of view — Hoads in Portugal — Lord Brougham burnt in Effigy — 'I'he Duke rescued from a similar fate — Sir F. Chantrey on models — Lady Dillon's mot — Reminiscences of Mr. Pitt — His ascen- dency over Erskine — General Gneisenau — Strategy and tactics — The Prussians in France — The Pont de Jena affair — Bliicher's madness — a strange hallucination — The French in Algiers — Lord Brougham as a mimic — The Prince of the Peace — Alava — His reminiscences of Waterloo — Was preseirt at Waterloo and Trafalgar — Rumours of Waterloo in London — the Roths- child's messenger — Motoi Talleyrand — Mons. de laBesnaudicre — Chateaubriand at Verona — Lord Brougham — Don Carlos' ■wedding — Railway bills — The Duke's house in Paris — Carnot's opinion of Robespierre — Anecdotes of Louis XVIIL — Lord Castlereagli's madness — Duke of Brunswick and the young Pretender — Mot of Marmontel — Napoleon's plans after his escape — Duke of Kent's conversational powers — Dedication of books — Mrs. Clarke and Beresford — Duke has a fall, out hunting — Lord Durham's scheme of Federation — Sheridan and Pitt — Princesse de Talleyrand — Proposed expedition to the West — Defects of our military system — Spain and her galleries — Correspondence on England's duties to her subjects and colonies ..,,.. Page 116 — 1112 Oaldey Parl-^ Suffolk. — Correspondence about proposed College of Agriculture in Kent .... 133 — loi London. — The history of " the Portfolio " — Prince Eleven — Back- house and Urquhart — Lord Douro's marriage — The Duke's .speech on Lord Ebrington's appointment — His political diffi- culties — Contrast between the Duke and the Marquess Wellesley — Christening of Lord Mahon's son — The Jamaica Bill, and consequent ministerial crisis — The Duke's coolness in a crisis — Compared with Lord Althoi-p — Joseph Hume and his constituents — Debate in House of Lords — Lord Melbourne and the Duke's speeches^ — The Duke of Cumberland's pre- judice against the Duke — Rogers' joke on the " Bedchamber Question" — The Duke's unselfish patriotism — The Privilege case — the Duke and Soult— Soult's officers great plunderers — large booty captured at Vittoria — Madame de Gazan in search of her child— Daniel Webster — his opinion of the Duke's despatches and of Napoleon — Formalities in Spain and Portugal — The Education Debate— Distribution of seats in .the House of Commons — Correspondence on Spanish affairs ISi — 14^ xu CONTENTS. Walmer Castle. — The Duke's letter written during liis retreat to. Torres Vedras — Talleyrand's description of E. EUice — Lord Macaulay's criticism of his own speech — Duke's estimate of English and French cavalry — Oavrard's reminiscences — Duke's return from Windsor — Anecdotes of Sheridan — Talleyrand and his creditors — Eevolutionary movements and great men — Talleyrand and Don Carlos' escape — The Duke's experiences of Don Carlos — Society in France and England — The Marquess AVellesley — ilarlborough and Sunderland ; and the French Ilevolution- — Suppression of criticism in the French army — Lord Harrowbj' as Pitt's successor — The Duke's plan for the finances of the country — Bimetallism — The Corn Laws — Fears for ihe country — Anecdote of Admiral Berkeley and the Minorquese miniature piainter — Proposed railways through Windsor Park and Strathfieldsaye — Canada — Anniversary of Assaye — Portugal — General Thiebault's work on the campaign of Vimiera — Massena's ignorance of Torres Vedras — Anec- dotes of Massena — The Duke's kindness to children — Mot of ]5rougham — Cajsar's landing-place — Espartero — Pitt and Lord Liverpool as speakers — The Duke's early days at the Military Academy at Angers — Anecdote of the Due de Brissac — The jVbbe Sieyfes — The Duke's fellow-pupils and reminiscences — A'isitors at Walmer — Macaulay's proposed code of laws for India — The Eastern Question — Mehemet All — The Duke's former influence over him — Decay of England's power — The Duke's regulations about church-going in Spain — Lingo Punt in India — Lord Nelson's funeral — Dedel's anecdote of M.Haber — Concert at Walmer — Lord Wellesley's memory — His know- ledge of Italian — Lady Burghersh — The Waterloo despatch — la Vieille Garde — Cambronne and the ))jo< attributed to him — Pozzo di Borgo's despatch — Eothsohild's messenger and the way he obtained the news of Waterloo — Arrival of the news in London — The Prince Regent — The Duke's letter in the Spec- tator to Mr. Cruttwell on the Currency Question — Origin of the' Tricolour — BlUcher's delusion — The Duke's account of the attack on him in London on Waterloo Day 1832 — His visits to Chevening and Bromley — Popular vicissitudes — The Duke's experiences of English mobs — French newspapers — Progress of Popery — Secular education — Writing on windows — Anecdote of George IV. — Posts in India — The Battle of Argauni. — The ford at Assaye — The Duke's early experience in Holland — Lady do Lancy's narrative of her husband's death — Lord Anglesey's Avound and Lord Fitzroy Somerset's — The Duke's CONTENTS. xiii wound at Orthtz — His own and Napoleon's immunity — Tlie fall of the Ministry in ISiSO — Peel's memory — A curious fact — Outrage at AVindsor — Death of Lady Salisburj' — Moorish customs in S^nin — Gil Bias — Spanish grandees — French wounded at Brussels — false report of Lord Brougham's death — Apparition seen by Sir John Sherbrooke — Anecdotes of his hasty temper — ^Yeomen warders — The annoyances of patronage, civil and military — The Duke's heavy correspondence — Mr. Canning — Chartist disturbances — The Newport revolt — Lord Hill's residence — Capt. Drew in Canada — Contrast between German and English Universities — Details of the Duke's serious illness and recovery — The Queen's proposed marrijge with Prince Albert — The Duke's departure to London Parje 148—214: London 1840. — Privilege — The precedence of Prince Albert — Eenewed illness — The Duke's anxiety about public aflairs — L'exaditwie est la politesae des 7'ois — Pay of soldiers in India — Shroffs — The theatre in Paris — Les Anglaises pour rire — Le tyran de Cambray — Madame de Stael — Richness of the Old French Court — Lord Dudley and the Duke of Sussex — The Duke's exposure of himself to danger iu battle — The Duke of Eichmond at Waterloo — The British troops at Hougoumont and at La Haye Sainte — Lord Fitzroy Somerset's wound — French and English cavalry — The flight of the Nassau troops 214—222 Strathfieldsayei — The Blaek Hole at Calcutta — Lord Liverpool's grandmother a survivor — Orme's history — Plassey — Importu- nate correspondents — Charles X. compared with James II. — Anecdote of Talleyrand — Joseph Buonaparte — His gratitude to the Duke — -The MS. narratives of Gentz — Intercepted de- spatches — Mr. Croker and the Irish Secretaryship in 1808 — Court favourites — M. Decazes — Anecdote of Decazes and Tiemey — Sir |,Henry Halford and the Duke's Latin speech — Madame Grisi— Sir E. Peel's Administration in 1834 — Impor- ttmate beggars and the Duke's bounty — Precedence in Eussia — The Duke of Cumberland's career — The ex-Empress Maria- Louisa — Due de Eeichstadt — Thirst in India— Pews in churches and Church Establishment— Origin of suspension bridges— M. de Naylies' narrative— Carelessness of Spaniards with gunpowder 222 — 236 London. — Symptoms of age and infirmity— Debate in House of xiv CONTENTS. Commons on Hill coolies — State of political parties in England — Sir S. Eorailly's Memoirs — The Allies and the Government of France in 1815 — ^La Payette — His inability to profit bj^ experience — Lord Grey — Mot of Talleyrand — The Duke's comments on llomilly's Memoirs — Sir Edward Kerrison — Anecdote of Alava — Duke's speech on Canada Bill — Fresh attack of illness — Lord Melbourne and the Regency Bill — Parallel between Jugurtha and Marius, and the Duke and Napoleon . . " . . . . Page 236—243 Walmer. — Appointment of Justices of the Peace — Cintra Conven- tion Court of Inquiry — Sundry incidents at Waterloo — Sebastiani — Battle of Toulouse — French accounts and Sachet's plan — Anecdotes of Junot — in Lisbon — at Salamanca, &c. — His death and that of Berthier — Marshal Victor — The French spy Osire — Spanish spies — Croker's love of paradox — Prince Bernhard of Saxe Weimar — The Duke's personal movements at Waterloo — Lord Abinger — Canadian affairs — The 33rd Eegi- ment . . , 2-13—253 Strathfieldsaye. — The Duke's treatment of blackguards — The churchyard — Epitaphs — S. llogers — Similarity of the churches at Strathfieldsaye and Waterloo — Mot of Sir E. Peel — Eogers and Byron — The Duke's estate in Belgium — His commanderie in Portugal — Last illness of George IV. — Accession of William IV. — His behaviour to the Duke — Lord Dorchester — St. Helena — Admiral Eeynier — Plan of Acre — A mad correspondent — The Duke on religious education . . . 253 — 261 London. — The House of Lords — Fresh attack of illness — Dinner to the foreign Ambassadors — The Duke's French speech — Theories of punishment — " Those abominable Tories " — Patron- age — Joseph Hume — Saying of Peie Elisee — Sir E. Peel forms an Administration — Applications for Appointments — Curious early letter of the Duke . . . 261 — 268 Strathfieldsaye. — Letter to Lord EUenborough on the Cabul disaster — Tariff and Income Tax — The Duke's official residences — M. Thiers and Madame de Lieven — Guizot — Difficulty of handling troops — Confidence — Louis Philippe compared with Louis XIV. — Portuguese troops — Lord Castlereagh's madness — Lord Wellesley at eighty-two— Sir L. Cole — The French accounts of the Battle pi Toulouse — Anecdote of Lord Bexley and of Lord Jermyn — Subdivision of departments — Unreason- able applications, . . . . . . . 268 — 277 CONTENTS. XV London — Walmer. — The Duke commander -in-oliief a second time — Death, of Lord AVellesley — Prince Lieolitenstein^The Duke's memorandum on the battle of "Waterloo — Indian affairs — Difficulties in Afghanistan — The Garter — An illiterate officer — Lord Wellesley's funeral — Anecdotes of Lady Marlborough — • National education — Reform — Talleyrand's mot — The Duke's, growing infirmities — The Duke's estates in Belgium and in Spain — The Duke and the partridge bone — Frederick the- Great — The British Kavy — Canadian and Indian affairs — Lord Londonderry's government — Its failings — Sir R. Ptel and the Currency Committee — His resignation of the Irish Secretaryship — Lord Talbot— Reasons lor appointing Lord Chatham to the command of the AValcheren expedition — Canning and Castle- reagh — Mr. Goulburu — Enunciation — How the Duke learnt Spanish — Lord Ellenborough's distribution of decorations to- Indian troops ..... Page 277 — 292' London — Stratlifieldsaye.- — The gates of Somnauth — Warren Hastings — Duke's despatch in 1807 on defence of Ireland — Her Majesty's name — " Wigs to the rear " — The Duke's correspon- dence — Indian and Irish affairs . . . 293 — 29G' lYalmer — Stratlifieldsaye. — Espartero — Mr. .lones's book on the Mexicans — Canning's ability as a writer — Incidents of his. administration — The Duke of York's last illness — Dinner jiarties in Spain — Alava's early career — Sir C. Campbell's Erench — Incidents of Salamanca — Lord Stratford de Eedcliffe — Prince Metternich's business habits — The field of Plassey — Indian affairs — England's rule in India — Anecdote of La Place — Mot of George IV. about Kelly — Reversing a decision — Election of Dr. Jeune at Pembroke College — The seat of Government in India — Lord Brougham — Napoleon's route fromi Elba to Paris — Debts of Oxford undergraduates — Gladstone's " Church and State " — Lord EUenborough — The Cabul murders- — Influence of women — Letter from the Duke on England's nile in India, &c. — Com Laws — Close of Sir R. Peel's Admin- istration — ^Letters from the Duke on the Spanish marriages- and on the state of Ireland — Failure of the potato crop, &c 296— 320' Stratlifieldsaye — London. — The Duke of Kent an admirable speaker — Sir R. Peel and the Duke — The Duke's relations with Sir T. Picton — Sir J. Sherbrooke — The Prince of Lowenstein CONTENTS. at Strathfielflsaj-e — Lord Brougham and Metternioh — Sir Hudson Lowe's book on St. Helena — The Duke's plan for guarding Napoleon — Colonel Wilks — Portuguese ceremonious- ness — "A double siege" — Prince Metternich — His interview with Napoleon in 1813 at Dresden — His habits — Abuse of the word Fraternite in Paris — Princess Lieven and her visitors — Sir Pi. Peel's bequest of his papers — Offer of a peerage to Lady- Peel — Thiers' History- -Conclusion . Page 320 — 332 NOTES OF CONYBESATIONS WITH THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. SUDBOVBN. "The power of the Priest is immense in Spain, tlie igsi. priest is tlae resident gentleman of every parisli ; tlie ""''• ^^" bishops reside in towns, where their influence very much exceeds that of tlie cahilclo or civil magistrates. As to the grandees,* they are all at Madrid ; none of them according to the ancient system could leave the Court without a special permission from the King. When the Cortes disobliged the clergy during the war, I told them that they must not — that they were weakening my resources. * * * " Nothing could be more ill-judged than the attempt made through KoUy to effect Ferdinand's escape ; had he been in Spain, he -^^'ould have done all the mischief in the world." From his character ? " No — his character is not bad; in all that I have seen of him I have had nothing to complain of, and it is impossible for * See jyost, p. 55. 2 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. anybody to be going on better than he is now — quite ""^ impossible." But did not the frequent change in the Spanish Government, first local Juntas, then a central Junta, then a Eegency, &c., do much harm, which the arrival of the King would have prevented ? " No ; these changes happened when they were either shut up or just going to be shut up in Cadiz — they did not affect the country. As to Ferdinand, it is very unfortunate that I should not have seen him in my camp ; I could have told him how things really stood and what he ought to do. The French first sigired a treaty with him — he sent the Duke of San Carlos with it — it was to send all the English away I believe (laughing) ; but the Cortes would not ratify it, and then the French released him without any treaty at all ; but for fear of his meeting me, sent him, not to Bayonne, which was the shortest way, but through Catalonia." Does your Grace think that he could have gone on with the Constitution and the Cortes ? " Impossible — without modifications. I don't mean to say that with modifications he might not. But they had gone too far — it was quite a Eadical Constitution — no second Cliamber — and only went on at all from the pressure of the war. The people too were not for it ; Ferdinand had been proclaimed absolute king — Bey neto they call it — I think at Burgos and elsewhere before he took any steps to make himself so. Their abolition of the Inquisition was injudiciously done with unnecessary violence; thus, for instance, they drew out a strong statement of all the mischief and cruelty it had caused, and passed a decree that this statement should be regularly read in the churches on stated days in the year. This they did in 1812. I told them then that THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 3 they were wi'Dng, and foretold that it would be re- 1831. established. It was, two years afterwards. In Portugal ''"^ they proceeded differently, and it never rose again. * * * # » "Lord Peterborough was a very superior man. I don't mean that he was such a man as General Stanhope or the Duke of Marlborough; he was irregular and difficult to deal with, but he was a superior man, well fitted for execution. 7|t ^it ifi- ift -ifc " We follow each other very much. The first time I landed in Portugal was at the mouth of the Mondego. From thence we were marching to drive out Junot; we beat them at Eolifa and then at Vimiero. But first we came to the convent of Batalha * — you have seen drawings of it, I dare say, it was built four or five centuries ago ; I don't know exactly the date (laughing), but much about the time of our conc[uest, and intended to record a great battle gained by tho Portuguese over a king of Castile at Aljubarrota.f Xow it so happened that I took up my ground on the very same position that the Spaniards had, and on the very night before the anniversary of the battle ; and the monks of the convent, seeing that I had taken the same ground, thought, of course, that I must be defeated too. They passed the whole night in prayer and lamentation. A most uncomfortable night they told me on my return that I had made them pass ! " Su', General Alava mentioned to me that your Grace had likewise fought at Yittoriat on exactly the same * See ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 351. t In 1385. % To this the Duke again alluded in a conversation with Mr. Croker three years later. For his account of the Battle of Vittoria, see ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 335, and ii. p. 231. E 2 4 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. ground as that formerly held by the Black Prince? "Yes, we follow each other very much. But the English then were in a different position — they came from France — and our heads were turned to France. But with this allowance, we certainly had the same ground. Poor Cadogan certainly fell in what we were told was the Black Prince's headquarters. The Black Prince had fixed himself in an old castle there, and we occupied it. Then at Waterloo — we were on the very ground of one of Marlborough's engagements,* but he had more of the French position and the French of mine." How was that, Sir, since he must then have stood between them and France ? " Because he forced some lines and took them in the rear." (He gave the names and details, but I cannot recollect them.) Sir, I have been much struck why Marlborough and Eugene, after so many great victories, never pushed forward to Paris, instead of lingering at sieges on the frontier. Your Grace, on the contrary, after Waterloo advairced boldly — "Aye, but I took Cambray first — I took Cambray by storm and then Peronne." Peronne la Pucelle, Sir ? " Aye, Peronne la Pucelle — it had never been taken before (smiling) ; but the Duke of Marlborough without Cambray and without Peronne could not and ought not to have advanced. Besides, countries were then much less thickly peopled or provided with supplies than they are now; armies can now move with much greater ease. But even now — what was it but the possession of the Spanish fortresses that obliged me to wait so long upon their frontier ? I was obliged to wait till Pamplona and St. Sebastian had fallen — I could not stir before. * Seejjosi, p. 31. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 5 " Those fortresses were got by the French in the 1831. most infamous manner. Pamplona they took by the snow — the garrison were playing at snowballs, and the French advanced under pretence of joining in their sport. Barcelona the same sort of way." Would it have made a great difference if the French had not got hold of these fortresses ? " Oh, if they had not, they never would have had complete military occupation of the country as they had at one time; they had complete conquest; the question was to re-conquer." ***** " I remember Don Juan de Halen. He betrayed Lerida to us, being in the confidence of the French Grovernor, but as you may suppose we did not trust him much afterwards." 7|& ^ "lit V 7|f Your Grace does not remember Jovellanos ? " Yes. I knew him — a very clever man." SUBBOVRN. Talleyrand was mentioned at dinner. " He is not,'" Nov. 1. said the Duke, " lively or pleasant in conversation, but now and then he comes out with a thing that you remember all the rest of your life." " Do you know what he said on hearing of the death of Napoleon ? (pronounced by the Duke a la frangaise). Somebody in the room at the time exclaimed : Quel evenement ! Non, replied Talleyrand, ce n'est plus un evenement c'est une nouvelle." Is he a good man of business ? * " No — not at all, nor, to say the truth, does he even pretend to be so. It * See ' The Cioker Papers,' i. p. 334. 6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. is quite astonishing how much he depends upon others ; how much, for instance, otiiers write for him." The Bristol riot was mentioned, and Croker expressed great horror at the report (wliich he believed) of the troops having at last fraternised with the mob and sung " God save the King " together. " Allow a man," cried the Duke with much animation, " who knows something of troops and of the troops — to assure you that you are perfectly mistaken if you tlaink," &c. He afterwards said, " I know the soldiers, their ofdcers can answer for them, and I can answer for the officers." Nov. 2. At dinner the conversation turned on French money. The Duke said that in the south of France and after- wards at Paris he had been obliged to coin French pieces for the use of his army. " It is singular," he said, " that we had no earlier news of the capitulation of Paris. The Allies entered it, I think, on the 30th of March, was it not ? " The 31st, I believe, Sir. " Aye — well, the 31st — but we had no news of it till the 12tli — when it was brought us by Cooke there (pointing to Kawj* across the table). Some people said that Soult knew it before, but that cou.ld not possibly be, for I was at that time between him and Paris, and intercepted his communications." Sir Henry Cooke, here joining the conversation, gave us an account of his journey — how he was detained at Orleans by General Chasseloup, sent on to tlie Empress at Blois — and much delayed. He also described his first interview with Soult, when stating to him the news. He was accompanied by the French officer sent from the Provisional Government, the Marquis de St. Simon, who wore the new order of the Lily in his * Sir Henry Cooke. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 7 nutton-hole. Soult viewed it -n-itli much emotion, and 1831. coming up to St. Simon, was overheard by Cooke to say ""^ in a low voice : Vous meritez d'etre pcndu ! Upon which, continued Cooke, the Marquis almost immediately bolted out of the room, and we heard him riding off. '■ Aye," said the Duke, laughing, " he was no doubt afraid of meeting with his deserts, as Soult thought them." Sir Henry proceeded to say that Soult in a short time became more composed, and apologised to him for his warmth by telling him how lately he had seen St. Simon as one of his own officers. He was then desired to wait in another room, when Soult shortly reappeared. Is it, he said, usual among polidcd nations to negotiate while they are fighting ? The outposts had just been attacked.* I reminded him, continued Cooke, that I had at the outset conveyed your Grace's declara- tion that you woidd not interrupt your operations. Soult then requested me to go to the outposts, which I did. " Yes," said the Duke, " I said I could not interrupt the operations. A French officer f afterwards said to me, 2\^ous avojis vu avanccr la cavalcria legere le guatrihnc et le sicdhne | — they knew them at last as well as we did (laughing) — et nous savons ce qid serait amve Ic lendemain ! " Did your Grace expect the news of the Allies being at Paris ? " Yes, I had expected them to get to Paris, but I had heard nothing positive of their having done so — only a few vague rumours. One or two people came to me and said, Savez-vous que les Allies sont a Paris ? but I could only say : Je n'en sais ricn ! They * Before Toulouse. t Gozan. X See ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 434. 8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. were chiefly emigrants wliose news could only be taken ""^ cum grano— they told rather what they wished than what was the fact." * # * * * I have heard, Sir, from military men that Napoleon's campaign to defend Paris was one of his most skilful ? — "Excellent — quite excellent. The study of it has given me a greater idea of his genius than any other. Had he continued that system a little while longer, it is my opinion that he would have saved Paris. But he wanted patience * — he did not see the necessity of ad- hering to defensive warfare. I have been obliged to do it for many months together — and he threw himself imprudently on the rear of the Allies. Then, of course, they marched to Paris. He was misled by some Eussian cavalry at St. Dizier; but, however, he was very nearly in time to save Paris — he had got to the last stage, as far as Villejuif," where, cried Croker, interrupting the Duke, instead of getting to Paris he got something else that night ! " Aye," cried the Duke, smiling, " so I have heard. But if he had got to Paris, he would have prevented the capitulation." But Marmont, Sir ? " Oh, Marmont never betrayed him — that is a great mistake. All that Marmont did was this — the French marshals and troops being quar- ■ tered from Fontainebleau to Paris, all began to treat, and Marmont being nearest to Paris, treated first. That was all." Could Napoleon have recovered Paris by an attack from Fontainebleau ? " Impossible, I think, at that time." After dinner the Duke drew me to the chimney-piece * See 'The Greville Memoirs ' (Part I.), i. p. 71, and post, p. GO. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 9 of the drawing-room, and was so good-natured as to 1831. continue the conversation. I asked him whetlier lie "'^ thought Napoleon wholly indebted to his genius for liis pre-eminence, and whether all his marshals were really so very inferior to him ? * — " Oh yes — there was nothing like him. He suited a French army so exactly ! De- pend upon it, at the head of a French army there never was anything like him. In short, I used to say of him that his presence on the field made the difference of forty thousand men.f "The French soldiers are more under control than ours. It was q-uite shocking what excesses ours com-- mitted when once let loose. J I remember once at Badajos, when we stormed the town, entering a cellar and seeing some soldiers lying on the floor so dead drunk that the wine was actually flowing from their mouths ! Yet others were coming in not at all disgusted at seeing them, and going to do the same. Our soldiers could not resist wine. The French too could shift better for themselves, and always live upon the country. " The Spaniards make excellent soldiers. What spoUs them is that they have no confidence in their officers — this would ruin any soldiers — and how should the Spaniards have confidence in such officers as theirs ? "§ But surely. Sir, they had some able men ? — Castaiios ? " Oh no, no ! " (lowering his voice and gently shaking * See'Tlie Croker Papers,' i. p. 339, and post, p. 20, where tlie Duke ranks Massena second. t See ' Tbe Croker Papers,' iii. p. 276, and Napier's ' Peninsular War,' ii. p. 216. t This opinion was expressed in a circular letter to the superior officers in 1812. See Napier's ' Peninsular War,' iv. p. 403. § But at other times the Duke spoke even more disparagingly of them. See ' The Croker Papers,' iii. p. 275, and post, pp. 22 and 107. lo NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. his head as he usually did whenever giving an opinion unfavourable to any one). But, Sir, the battle of Baylen ? * " Why as to that battle they had one great advantage, they had to do with a frightened man. It could not have happened two or three years afterwards, when the French had seen more of the Spanish Generals and learnt to de- spise them. They would have cut their way through. Then, too, the Spaniards had more regular troops than they ever had before — all the regular troops from the siege of Gibraltar which made their best army. And after all (laughing), I believe no one was more surprised at the result of Baylen than Castanos himself! " Your Grace cannot remember Palafox — he had been sent to Vincennes ? " Yes, I knew him afterwards at Madrid — there was nothing in him — all parties agreed that he was a poor creature. He happened to be chosen Captain-General at Zaragoza by the Junta, and allowed everything to laisser cdler very much in that resistance, but did nothing to it." But Eomana,t Sir ? " Oh, he was the worst of all — ■ a good man — a very good excellent man, but no general." Albuquerque ? " Oh no, no ! " (shaking his head). And the Portuguese, Sir ? Sylveira ? " A. very slippery fellow. "We never could depend upon him for any combined operations. In short, to say the truth, I never knew either in Portugal or Spain any general or any statesman who showed great practical talent except Forjas." But was he not in the French interest ? " ISo, not^ latterly at least — he was a most able and well-meaning man — he is dead now. I have heard Palmella reckoned. * Fosi, p. 22, and see Napier's ' Peninsular War,' i. p. 77. t Post, p. 23. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. ii an abler man, but I don't think so. Except him, I did 1831. not know one." "^ Your Grace surprises me. I thought, for instance, the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon had been a man of talent ? " He was a very bad fellow that." - Yes, but his talent ? " Oh, no talent, only low cunning. He was a very unprincipled man, and when that is the case I never think it can be a very able man." I asked him about Colonel Napier's story of Sir Eufane Donkin's message at Talavera to him about , Cuesta, and his answer.* He said he did not remember, and evidently did not believe it. He spoke of Sir John Moore's campaign. I asked him what would have happened if Moore had thrown himself into Zaragoza instead of retreating ? He could not have done that, the second siege had not yet begun. No, his fault was this; when he marched to attack Soult, who was then at — at — " At Carrion ? " Aye, at Carrion, he ought to have prepared for his retreat, considered that in fact as the beginning of his retreat." He afterwards entered at some length into the state of Galicia after the battle of Coruna, and spoke with contempt of the idea that they had cleared the province by their own exertions. The battle of San Payo, he scarcely knew by name. — " I called off Soult and Ney," he said, " and their sixty thousand men to central Spain." * Napier's ' Peninsular War,' ii. p. 174. Albuquergue sent one of his staff to inform the English that Cuesta was betraying him. Donkin carried the message to the Duke, who, without so much as turning his head from watching the movements of the advancing enemy, drily answered, " Very well, you may return to your brigade." 12 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. At dinner he told tlie lady nnxt him a story of his going to the rcdoiitc or masked ball at Vienna with the present Lord Londonderry. A lady came up and pre- sented him (Lord L.) ^\■ith a perfumed handkerchief. Comment, she then exclaimed witli much emotion, vovs ne me rcconnaissez 'pas ? It appeared that he Lad given her some particular sort of perfume, assuring her that he liad given none like it to anyl)ody else. SUDBOURN. Wov. 3. Croker* with his usual self-confidence attacked tlie Duke on the opinions j he had given the day before of Napoleon's Parisian campaign, and called it unskilful. — " I have studied it very much," said the Duke. " I have read the Prussian accounts (I think he said), the book of Baron Fain, and the despatches of Charles Lord Londonderry who [although . . . . ] is not at all a bad person for describing. I can only say that my opinion of that campaign was what I Iiave stated. In it Bona- parte (pronouncing it a I'anrjlcdse) beat the Austrians, Prussians, and Eussians — different armies — always with the same troops ; and I have had experience enough to know how very exact a man must be in his calculations and how very skilful in his manojuvres to be able to do that." He spoke in the liighest terms of Napoleon's military genius, but said that he was deficient in patience for defensive warfare, and not careful enough of the sub- sistence of his soldiers — the latter point he said was most strikingly shown in Eussia. * It appears that Mr. Croker was one of tlio party at Sudbourn, Ijut 110 mention of these conversations is to be found in tlie Papers, t Ante, p. 8. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 13 They talked of Cholera. "The only tiling I am J^- afraid of," said the Duke, " is fear. I told Lord Grey at Windsor that I was q^uite sure if three or four hun- dred Kotallcs were to leave London for fear of it, they \yould be followed by three or four hundred thousand, and that then this country would be plunged into greater confusion than had been known for hundreds of years." They talked of officers promoted from the ranks. I Nov. 4, asked the Duke whether they were not invariably harsh to those in the same order from which they had sprung ? He answered in the negative, but said that their fault always was, not being able to resist drink — their low origin then came out — and you therefore could never perfectly trust them. Your Grace thinks our troops rather given to that ? " Yes, they cannot resist drink." I asked the Duke as to the difference between our soldiers and the French as to being impressed by harangues and proclamations ? He said there was very little difference. " The proclamations you read of in the Trench army were much more seen in the papers than by the soldiers — they were meant for Paris, Besides, we too have our orders of the day. As tO' speeches — what effect on the whole army can be made by a speech, since you cannot conveniently make it heard by more than a thousand men standing about you? But, Sir, was it not usual for ISTapoleon to make im- pressive harangues whenever he gave an eagle ? " Why, I should say — except that the thing might be better done — it was much the same as our giving away colours ; one always says sometliing then — almost always. I don't mean to say that there is no difference 14 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. in the composition or therefore the feeling of the French army and onrs. The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes ; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth.* It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards. The English soldiers are fellows who have all enlisted for drink — that is the plain fact — they have all enlisted for drink." SUDBOURN. ITov. 5. I mentioned Lord Peterborough to the Duke, and told him that I had heard from Mr. Gleigf that morning, who was delighted to find that his opinion of that General was favourable. " Yes," said the Duke, " I think him a very distinguished man — an excellent partisan — but an irregular man ; not such a man as the Duke of Marlborough." I told the story of Lord Peterborough and the nuns at Cuenca. The Duke then gave us that of "Dan Mackinnon " getting into a convent by a turn-about at Viseu in Portugal. After he had been there an hour or two, the Duke and some other officers came as usual to the " parlour " — for the ladies sang, said the Duke, and I gave one of them a pianoforte — when they were amazed at seeing one of the nuns, as it seemed, suddenly turn head over heels, and her petticoats falling about her head display the boots and trousers of an officer ! Lord Allen afterwards tried to get in, and the superior complained to the Duke, who promised to reprimand his lordship. " But what," he added, " shall I say to * Post, p. IS. t Afterwards the Chaplain -General, whose deatli has been an- nounced as these pages are under revision. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 15 Mackinnon ? " Oh, as to Mackinnon, she said, we can- issi. not help his coming in — we must make up our minds to ^~ Mm ; but pray speak to Lord Allen. Mackinnon was very good-looking. He told us a story of Sir James Whittingham's marriage, and another of a person who was going to be married and was advised to take some delicate way of breaking the news to Iris father. Well, he said, through the newspapers. In the evening we spoke of ISTapoleon and of 1815. I observed that he seemed to have a settled disregard of truth,* and also that I thought the greatest blot in his character was that shocking bequest in his wiUf to the man who had attempted the Duke's life. To both these remarks the Duke agreed, shaking his head to each with a very sad and serious expression. I spoke to Mm of Napoleon's application to the Provisional Government to attack him after Waterloo, and his con- fidence of success when the Duke's army was divided by the Seine. " Yes, but that would not have done at all. Blucher and I had then not less than 120,000 men together, and I had three bridges over the Seine. I was ready for him, and in fact I must have beat him." He said that Napoleon was wrong in attacking that campaign. He should have stood on the defensive, and we should then have had great difficulty in dealing with Mm. But surely. Sir, in attacking you Napoleon chose Ms o^wn ground, and if he had waited you would have chosen yours ? " Xo, that is not the case ; I must have taken much more to the right for " here we were interrupted. * For instances, see ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 287. t ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 339. i6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. On resuming our conversation before the Duke began his -ffhist, he told me that the battle of Ligny was not (as I thought) a very complete victory of the French. He spoke of the Pont de Jena,* and his difficulty in preventing Bliicher from blowing it up. He posted an English sentry upon it, who must have been blown up too. FEOM DEAL CASTLE. Nov. 11. Christening at Ash — Mr. Gleig's child, and dinner afterwards. Talking of cholera, the Duke said that he thought there was great want of clearness in the distinction made by physicians between the words contagious, infectious, and epidemic. I asked him whether Napoleon's march from Cannes to Paris was, as he stated himself, a most wonderful one for rapidity ? " Why, it was not a real bona-fide march. I will tell you how they get on in France; they iind a roidagc as they call it, fill it with baggage inside and put as many soldiers as they can upon it, and have another roulage to follow, and so on. The most surprising march, I believe, ever made was one of mine in India — seventy-two aniles from five one morn- ing to twelve the next — and all fair marching ; nor could there be any mistake as to distance, for in India we always marched with measuring wheels. The country was not very flat — a few lulls, but however no ghaut or mountain pass to get over." f The Duke then proceeded to tell the story of this march, and of the * Fost, p. 119, and ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part I.), i. p 41. t This story was told again to Mr. Croker, and is to be found iu full in ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 232. xn.lL, LJuts.lL, wr vvjii^i^iiNij i UIN. 17 strange message which occasioned it with infinite iss:. humour and spirit, but my difficulty of remembering ""^ Indian names or doing justice to his style prevent me from following him. He talked of elephants with the Indian army, and said that their food was not expensive ; they lived on the banyan or broad foliage of the country. Sir, T;-hat a peculiar appearance elephants and camels must give to an Indian army ! " Less so than you would think. In the Peninsula we had much the same system of conveyance, only substituting mules for camels. In my whole army in the Peninsula there was no other carriage than mine. Now in the Eussian service every officer has a carriage, in the French a great many. They encumber an army very much, and I really think that our freedom from them contributed greatly to our success." Were they forbidden ? " Not exactly forbidden ; but I discouraged them as much as I could. I hardly ever used my own, except indeed now and then to convey a wounded officer. # * * « * " The Guards are superior to the Line — not as being picked men Hke the French — for ISTapoleon gave peculiar privileges to his guardsmen and governed the army with them — but from the goodness of the non- commissioned officers. They do in fact all that the commissioned officers in the Line are expected to do — and don't do. This must be as long as the present system lasts— and I am all for it— of having gentlemen for officers; you cannot require them to do many things that should be done. They must not speak to the men for instance — we should reprimand them if they did ; our system in that respect is so very different c l8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH •1831. from the French. Now all that work is done by "'^ the non-commissioned officers of the Guards. It is true that they regularly get drunk once a day — by eight in the evening, and go to bed soon after, but then they always took care to do first whatever they were bid. When I had given an officer in the Guards an order, I felt sure of its being executed ; but with an officer in the Line, it was, I will venture to say, a hundred to one against its being done at all." The Duke spoke strongly in favour of having a strong military punishment in reserve, were it only to give efficacy to the milder ones. I think he must have alluded to flogging. He gave us an account of the system of hilling * up in the Guards. " Who would," he said, " bear to be billed up, but for the fear of a stronger punish- ment ? he would knock down the sentry and walk out ! " Do they beat them in the French army ? " Oh, they bang them about very much with ramrods and that sort of thing, and then they shoot them. Besides, a French army is composed very differently from ours. The conscription calls out a share of every class — no matter whether your son or my son — all must march ; but our friends — I may say it in this room — are the very scum of the earth.f People talk of their enlisting from their fine military feeling — all stuff — no such thing. Some of our men enlist from having got bastard children — some for minor offences — many more for drink ; but you can hardly conceive such a set brought together, and it really is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are. I have never known officers raised from the ranks turn out well, nor the system answer ; they cannot stand drink." * That is, being confined to barracks, with extra drUIs. t jinte, p. 14. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 19 DINNER AT WALMEB CASTLE. I asked the Duke whether the Belgian troops had really 1831. behaved so ill in the late battles. " Oh, poor devils," he ^'"" ^^' said laughing, " I believe they behaved as well as usual." At dinner I asked him whether he could make out Napoleon at "Waterloo on the opposite heights ? " No, I could not — -the day was dark — there was a great deal of rain in the air.* At the height off (I did not catch the name, but he meant the same described in the ' Subaltern ' by Mr. Gleig, who was present) I made out Soult most plainly. I had an excellent telescope. I saw liim come up — all the officers took off their hats as he turned towards them. I saw him spying at us — write and send off a letter : I knew what he was writing (laughing), and gave my orders accordingly ; but so plainly did I see liim that I am sure I should have known him again anywhere." Did your Grace know him afterwards at Paris ? " Yes, I did." Mr. Gleig asked for his description. $ " He is a very large man — very tall and large, like Marshal Beresford — a harsh voice, and not a very pleasant countenance or manner. It is a curious thing that when I was returning to Toulouse from Paris § — I had been to Paris from the army — I met him going up. The postillions have a habit there of changing horses on the road, and so did ours. I was fast asleep at the time but I was told afterwards ' that Soult, hearing whose carriage it was, had got out and walked round and round several times with his spying glass to reconnoitre what was inside (laughing). • * * «' « " Soult was not the ablest general ever opposed to * Post, p. 143. t Above Sauroren. J ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 310. § Fast, pp. 71 and 143. C 2 20 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. me ; the ablest after Napoleon was, I think, Massena * "^ Soult did not quite understand a field of battle ; he was an excellent tactician j — ^knew very well how to bring his troops to the field, but not so well how to use them, tvhen he had brought them up." Mr. Gleig mentioned the same heights again. " We were there," said the Duke, "joined by a French spy t — ^he was, I believe, a spy on both sides and came to and fro ; however, he certainly brought us very valu- able intelligence, and I would not, you know, press him very closely with questions how he got back to his own posts. He wanted to ride out with me wherever I went, but I told Mm that would not do at all. I suspected that he only wanted information to take back, and could not trust him. He dined every day at my own table though. At last he stayed with us entirely, telling us his character was blown upon and suspected — he durst not return. It was he who pointed out to me Soult on the occasion I told you, Voulez-vous voir Monsieur le Marechal Soult? Oui, suremenf, we all said. To prevent discovery we called him Don Juan de la Eosa. But Batbedat, the banker at Bayonne — you remember Batbedat (to Mr. G-leig) — was not to be taken in ; he came out from Bayonne one day to dine with me, and looked at this Don Juan very hard.§ Qjii est done ce Don Juan ? he said to Alava. Je n'en sais rien, said Alava. Ce n'est pas un Espagnol ? Je n'en sais rien, demandez a, Milord; c'est peut-etre Cagliostro ! When I was at Paris he came to me several times and was very anxious I should speak to the Minister of War to urge the settlement of his * ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 310, and ante, p. 9. t ' The Croker Papers,' iii. p. 275. X Tost, pp. 54, 71, and 2i9. § Fost, p. 54. ,THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 21 accounts. My good friend, I said to him, depend upon 1831. it the best thing I can do for you is to say as little as "^ possible about you. However, he still continued very anxious that I should speak upon the subject. At last I perceived that his visits grew more scarce from day to day. One morning, however, I saw him arrive, and he said, Monseigneur, vous aviez raison ; mes coniptes sont finis; tout est liquicU ! He had actually succeeded in persuading Soult that he had all that time been a true and faithful spy to him." * Pray, Sir, what would have been your next opera- tion after Toulouse, supposing the Allies had not taken Paris? "I should have established myself on the Loire, and carried the war into the heart of France. I could have done it as secm-ely as I established myself upon the Graronne ; it could not -have failed. I must first indeed have taken Bayonne, or at least the Port St. Esprit on the left bank which overhangs the town, and would have obliged it to surrender very soon. I was bound to take tliis Port St. Esprit first, because I must have carried with me some thirty or forty thousand Spanish troops, and I could not well have left a door into their country open behind me. But that door once shut, there was nothing to stop me. I could have established myself on the Loire with one hundred and twenty thousand men." I wish. Sir, it had been so — we should have had a second battle of Tours ! " It could not have failed, for in thus advancing I should only have drawn nearer to my resources in England. I should have had ISTantes (he pronounced it l^antz) as my channel of communication. And this would have been of a piece with all my other trans- * Tost, p. 54, 71. 22 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. actions in the war, for first I had Oporto, then Passages, "^^ and then Bordeaux." I asked him about the Spanish troops.* " Oh, poor devils, they never won a battle. I made them win one though at San Marcial. They were standing an attack, and sent to me pressingly for succour. Meanwhile the French finding my troops at hand on their side were beginning of their own accord to withdraw. This the officer who came to me did not see with his naked eye, but I could through my glass. Look, I told him. Wliy, he said, they do seem to be retiring. WeU, I said, if I send you the English troops you ask for, they will win the battle ; but as the French are already in retreat you may as well win it for yourselves. So they accordingly did ; and now I see that in their accounts this is represented as one of their greatest battles — as a feat that does them the highest honom\" But Baylen,t Sir ? " Oh, Baylen was mismanaged by the French. I knew Dupont afterwards at Paris — he was Minister of War — a very able man, but he. took fright, and did not imderstand the Spaniards. It could not have happened again. Later in the war the French would have marched over the Spaniards instead of capitulating to them. Their general would have said, Betires-vous, coquins! and off they would have gone. That Baylen too was always in the head of the Spanish officers. They were always for attempting the same manoeuvre and surrounding the enemy, insomuch that at last I used always to tell them before any engage- ment : Now, this is not a battle of Baylen ; don't attempt to make it a battle of Baylen ! " The Duke then adverted to the battle of Medina de Eio Seco and the mis-statements about it which he had * Ante, p. 9, andjposf, p. 107. t Ante, p. 10. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 23 heard at Corufia. "First they said that Blake had 1831. gained a great victory but had not pursued, then that "^ he had still gained a great victory but had thought it better to fall back, then that he had suffered a slight check, but never a word near the truth ! " Mr. Gleig observed how odd it was that the Spaniards, such fine and brave men as individuals, should make such indifferent troops. "That happens from want of confidence in their officers. And how should they have any ? their officers had seen no service and knew nothing." But the French, Sir, reckoned Eomana* very high. "Eomana was a good-natured, excellent man, most easy to live with — and very clever too — knew all about the literature and poetry of his country more than any Spaniard I ever knew, but he knew nothing of troops at all. I never in my whole life saw a man who had acted at all with troops understand so little about them. I liked him very much — he died in my arms — at least I was in the room at the time — but as to his generalship 1 ***** " J have lately been reading La Vallette's memou-s. What lies he tells ! As an instance of his inaccuracy even when his interest is not in question: he says that the Peace of Amiens was broken by the machinations of Mr. Pitt's administration. Now it was not Mr. Pitt but Mr. Addington who was minister at the time, but the - name of Pitt being best known in France and La VaUette taking no trouble for truth put it down by guesswork." ***** It was mentioned by Lord ClanwiUiam that it was * Ante, p. 10. 24 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. said great memories are usually a sign of great talents. I instanced Napoleon, and observed on his singling out soldiers in reviews whom he knew by name. " That," said the Duke, " was the greatest mistake. I'll tell you how he managed it. One of his generals (Lobau) used to get ready for him a list of soldiers to be called out from each regiment, and so Napoleon when opposite to it used to call out the name, and the man came forth — that was all. I also doubt the goodness of his memory, from the looseness and inaccuracy of his statements. In his works — I mean in all he has ever written - — ^you never find a thing related precisely as it happened. He seems to have had no clear nor distinct recollection ; scarcely once has he ever tripped into truth ! " BUCK-SUNTING AT WALDEE8EABE PARK. Kov. 16. Pointing to the huntsman, a remarkably tall, bony fellow, I took occasion to ask the Duke whether our troops were not the largest men of any in Europe ? " No, the Germans are as tall or taller." But they are taller than the French ? " No, not Napoleon's French." Is it any advantage for them to be tall ? " Why, yes, certainly. In man, as in every other animal, the largest and broadest is the strongest. Our men are not particularly tall, but full in the chest, and I always made them stand as square and take up as much room as they could. ***** " In marching, our soldiers carry a weight of between . fifty and sixty pounds each — about four stone. The musket is one stone — then sixty rounds of ammunition — THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 25 the means of carrying it — biscuit for three days — their 1831. clothing ; in short, altogether we used to make it out four stone. As to marches, that is not, I should say, our men's forU. In India they become good marchers from necessity : changing one's quarters to others five or six hundred miles off makes one a good marcher at once ; but in England we are in the habit of conveying them by steamboats or canal-boats, and never letting them walk. First it saves the public money — that is one thing-^and then it saves the commanding officers trouble." I reminded him of what he had said of the French roulages, and asked him whether that system did not make the French also bad walkers ? " No, they never use the roulages but in forced marches. Such was the march of Napoleon from Cannes to Paris, which as far as walking went was no march at all." Did your Grace on first hearing of his landing expect him to get to Paris 1 " Yes, I confess I did. I had been at Paris, and knew the new government to be very little settled and very easy to be shaken. I arrived at Vienna as Ambassador to the Congress, in place of poor Lord Castlereagh who was obliged to attend Parliament, and I was the first there to receive the intelligence. It came to me in a letter of Lord Burghersh at Florence, stating only that Napoleon had sailed off from Elba, but not knowing where he had ■gone.* The effect on aU the members of the Congress when I communicated the news was very strilitag. Talleyrand said : II ira jpartout ou vous voiidrez excepte en France — he had no idea of Napoleon's returning to France, and used to go about to the Austrians telling * For Prince Mettemioli's account of the first receipt of the news, see ' The Croker Papers,' iii. 233. He does not mention the Duke. 26 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. them, II faut visei- a votre Italic* The Emperor of Paissia — I did not see him myself, but I wrote him a note immediately, and I was told that in reading it he burst out laughing, meaning to imply how much labour they had thrown away, and how completely everything seemed to be undone. The Emperor of Austria too was very much concerned — very deeply indeed. We had not been on very comfortable terms together, all of us, for some time — at least there had been a quarrel, but it was again made up. Eussia and Prussia wanted to annihilate Saxony, and finding us unwilling they seemed inclined to take up the business ■with a very high hand. One thing has been said "^vholly false — not the slightest truth in it — that the Congress had ever any intention of removing Bona- parte from Elba to St. Helena." t Who then. Sir, was the first to think of St. Helena ; it seemed a strange out-of-the-way place to fix upon ? " Oh, the idea had occurred to many persons ; they were uneasy enough at his remaining so near ; but we had never any thoughts of removing him." Does your Grace think that he would have obtained the payment of the stipulated pension had he applied to the Congress 1 " Oh, on that point we had already remonstrated; and the French had agreed — in fact I believe they did pay a great deal." The Duke afterwards observed to Lady Guildford that Deal and Walmer were poor places for news. " Crowds of people go through, but nobody stays with * Metternich represents Talleyrand to have said that he was probably in Switzerland. t This is confirmed by Prince Metternich. See 'The Croker Papers,' iv. p. 233. The false story alluded to had been related by Lord Holland in his book. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 27 lis. Now at Dover jo\i always see somebody to tell 1831. you the news, or what does quite as well (laughing) to quote for ha-sdng told it." SAME DAT, DiyXEB AT WALMEB CASTLE. "We talked almost entirely of madness and madmen, and the Duke told us of several with whom he had come iato contact. " The last time," he said, " I was in London — on ^Monday last- — a person sent me in a letter — -an extremely well written letter — to tell me he was very anxious, on account of my character and reputation, to communicate to me something of the highest importance. I asked my servants what sort of a man he was, and they said he was a very decent- looking man. I then had him shown into my anteroom — you know it — it has glass doors, and there are servants in the next room. Well, I said, going out to him, what is it you want ? I must first, he said, tell you who I am. Yery well, I said. He then told me he was under a conspiracy for a charge of murder, and entered into a long rambling detail. You had better, I told him at last, seeing he was quite mad, go before a magistrate. What ! he said ; aren't you a magistrate ? Yes, I said, at least I am a Privy Councillor, and all Privy Councillors are magistrates by right; but you had better go before some acting magistrate of Middlesex — ^go to Bow Street. No, he said, as I am here I may as well put you in possession of the facts. He began again a long incoherent rhapsody, staring wildly at me all the time. At last, losing all patience, I rang the bell, and said to the servant, tell this gentleman where Sir Pdchard Bimie lives, and see him out of the house." 28 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 183T. He gave us an account of General * * * going mad in Spain — liis melancholy in the first place at the death of his brother, who was a strange, wild fellow, going after women; first he followed one to Petersburg, then another to Prussia, and at last got himself murdered. The Duke then detailed General * * * 's strange conduct in riding a white horse — "a d violent, vicious beast" — his stranger reason for it, and subsequent derangement. This case he said "was what deceived me in poor Lord Castlereagh, for having witnessed all the progress of madness in the other without any idea of his destroying himself, I never dreamt that Lord Castlereagh might do so. The probability never occurred to me." Did not General * * * recover, Sir ? " Oh, not com- pletely. How can you ever depend upon him again ? He is about, however, and I see him sometimes." * V^ Jifr * * " The effect of the eye upon insane persons is very singular and very certain. I have tried it many times. I always look them full in the face, and they cannot stand it." Mr. Gleig here mentioned that the same thing was true with animals, and instanced a curious occurrence of himself with a bull. ^EXFEDITION TO DOVER, AND DINNER AT WALMER CASTLE. Nov. 17. I mentioned to Alava a remarkable coincidence between the Duke and Marlborough, that each had lost his offices and employments at the same age precisely — sixty-one and six months — Marlborough on Dec. 31st, 1711, and the Duke of Wellington on Nov. 15th, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 29 1830. Alava afterwards repeated this to the Duke in 1831. my presence. " I will tell yon one thing," he said in ^"^ reply. " In that one year since last JSTovember there has been a greater destruction of life and property in this country than in all the fifty years since 1780." General Alava told me that when he travelled with the Duke and asked him at what o'clock he would start, he usually said "at daylight"; and to the question of what they should find for dinner, the usual answer was " cold meat." J'rni ai pris en Jwrreur, added Alava, les deux mots daylight et cold meed / * Lord Clanwilliam told me that the Duke had mentioned as an instance of the great memory of George IV.— at least in little things — that not having been at Walmer for forty years or so before, he nevertheless one day asked the Duke whether one still entered the Castle by the coach-house. After dinner I mentioned Lord Byron's sentence in manuscript, from a book which Mr. Murray had lent me, that democracy is only an aristocracy of black- guards. "A democracy," said the Duke, "if a real democracy could be formed, would be the strongest of all governments ; but then, remember, the strongest is the most tyrannical ! " He mentioned what he told me before at Sudbourn, that he had never happened to see or to meet with Lord Byron. Ta lkin g of Lord Brougham, the Duke said that though he was not first in any one department, he was skiKul in many and formidable in all. He told me that he knew on good authority that when Lord John Eussell moved for leave to bring in * For another similar story by Alava, see ' The Oroker Papers,' ii. p. 120. 30 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. the Eeform Bill it was not yet drawn up, and they had only some written resolutions. On finding leave granted, Brougham hastily drew up the first draught of the Bill. The Duke much lamented that a division had not taken place on that occasion. " I don't mean," he said, "to blame others. I was as deep in it as anybody. We all thought that the Bill ought to be fairly before the country; but the result has, I think, certainly proved that we were wrong." DINNER AT WALMEB CASTLE. Nov. 20. We had to dinner Lord and Lady Salisbury and some neighbours. Before dinner the Duke attacked Dr. M'Arthur on the medical confusion between the words contagion and infection. "There is nothing in the world," he added, "like a clear definition — the mathematicians found that out long ago." After- dinner he spoke of some very interesting military matters ; but the conversation, being ill-sup- ported and often interrupted, proved very desultory. " How very interesting," he said, " are Marlborough's letters in Coxe's Life ! I think he had more difficulty in dealing with his allies than I had ; not but what mine were very troublesome too, but I soon got the upper hand of them, while his gave him constant annoyance. On the other hand, I think I had more difficulties, at home than he had. I supported the Government at home much more than they supported me. Now he had very little difficulty of that sort till his friends left office." Lady Salisbury asked which was the greatest military genius, Marlborough or Napoleon ? " Wliy, I don't know — it is very difficult to tell. I can hardly con- ceive anything greater than Napoleon at the head of an THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 31 army — especially a French army. Then he had one 1831. prodigious advantage — he had no responsibility— he '^'^ could do -whatever he pleased ; and no man has ever lost more armies than he did. Now vrith me the loss of every man told. I could not risk so much ; I knew that if I ever lost five hundred men without the clearest necessity, I should be brought upon my knees to the bar of the House of Commons." " Marlborough," he afterwards said, " was remarkable for his clear, cool, steady understanding.* ***** "On the 20th of June, just after the battle of Waterloo, I encamped on the field of Malplaquet. The next day (I think he said) I encamped at Cateau Cambresis — the furthest point to which the Duke of Slarlborough ever advanced."! » * * * * Is it not singular. Sir, that the French were in such a hurry to make Napoleon abdicate after Waterloo, since it appears that they still contemplated resistance, and since their chief hope ought to have been on his military genius ? " Why, they were in a great hurry certainly — a very great hurry. We knew of his abdica- tion long before we got to Paris. But the fact is that then they had very much lost their confidence in him — they would not trust him for defensive warfare, nor indeed was he fit for it." ***** He talked of Louis XVIII. and Charles X. "1 was surprised," he said, " about Charles the Tenth. I knew indeed that Louis was the man of most education and * The Duke speaks of " his strong sound sense and great practical sagacity," in ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.) ii. p. 192. t Ante, p. 4. 32 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1831. information — the best bookman ; but I always thought that as a man of the world — for action — Charles the Tenth was his superior. * * * « « " Louis the Eighteenth was a walking sore — a perfect walking sore — not a part of his body was sound — even his head let out a sort of humour. Villele told me that he went to him in his last illness to speak to him on the property of some emigrant which the King had desired might not be settled without being mentioned to him. Ill as he was, it was therefore necessary to trouble him. Villele told me he found him with his head resting on the table, too weak to rise, and his voice so low that to converse with him Villele was obliged to get under the table and speak from thence. Yet, weak as he was, Villele assured me that he gave a most clear and precise answer, entered into a review of all the laws in the Eevolution affecting the property of emigrants, and more especially this property, and gave such directions that Villele declared it was not found necessary to alter one single word in it." The conversation then turned on Eeform. We talked of various ideas for a moderate Eeform; the Duke was very guarded, and remained silent. On the late Bill, however, he spoke freely. " The disfranchise- ment of any place is a painful thing to swallow. I don't mean that we shan't be obliged to swallow it — but it is a monstrous gulp." Nov. 21. On this day I dined again at Walmer Castle ; but having begun a journey the next morning, and been otherwise engaged for some days after, I have neglected to put down anything that passed, and have only a vague recollection of its interest. The Duke anticipates THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 33 greater horrors from a convulsion in this country — 1831. should any occur — than from that of any other European nation. " Our mob is not trained nor accus- tomed to regular direction as the French was ; once let it loose, and you will see what it will do ! " 1833. I much regret that I made no record of my commu- 1833. nications with the Duke for a very considerable period, ^"^ more especially during the crisis so little known of May 1832,* and during a visit which I paid to Strathfieldsaye in January 1833. However, I had a great deal of other business to employ my time and thoughts. There was shown me about this time by a friend of the Duke's ■ — with permission to take a copy — a letter lately written by Mm. It was addressed to the rector of a parish in Ireland — and a family connection, as I was told, of his own. It well paints the dark forebodings of that period in even the best-balanced minds. Copy of a letter from the Duke of "Wellington to the Eev. — Foster in Ireland : — "London, Dec. 4,1832. " My deae Sie, I have received your letter, and am much obliged by the coniidence you repose in me. " It is impossible for any man to form an opinion of what will be the result of the measures of the last two years. It is my opinion that such a democratic influence has been established over the Legislature, as to render the ordiaary operations of the Government * On this, see ' The Greville Memoirs C^art I.), ii. p. 295, and iii, p. 48. D 34 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1833. difficult, and the protection of the institutions of the country and its property by the Government as nearly impracticable^ and as must change its policy domestic as well as foreign. I confess that I should not be surprised, indeed I expect, that the colonies will be separated from the mother-country as the first con- seq^uence of the general weakness which must result from what has been done. . "Your profession in Ireland has suffered greatly already. It will suffer, I am afraid, still more. "The question is whether under the best possible circumstances to remove your family to Canada would afford you and them relief from the difficulties under which you are labouring. I am one of those who do not feel much confidence in the benefits to be derived either by society at large or individuals from emigi-a- tion. There is a great advantage certainly in obtain- ing land at a low price. But let any man consider what is the sacrifice of property, of time, and of com- fort for himself and his family which he makes in his removal (which, observe, cannot be temporary), and in the period of time which must elapse before his new property can become productive, and compare that sacrifice with the produce of a similar sacrifice of luxury and appearance at home, and he will find that the gain by the removal to the colonies will be small. My opinion is if those who go abroad and still more those who go to the colonies to economise would submit to make the same sacrifices at home as they must make abroad and in the colonies, they would find that they can subsist as cheaply, particularly in Ireland, as they could either abroad or in the colonies. The fact is that men cannot bear those sacrifices in the presence of their neighbours and friends which they do not scruple to THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 35 make before strangers, or in a forest or swamp or in a 1833. desert in America. ""^ " But let ns consider whether there are not higher and more important views of this question which ought to decide you in the course to be pursued. You are a minister of the Church of England. You have, I rmderstand, a cure of souls. Can you abandon your post in a moment of crisis and danger for worldly objects ? Your flock ought to provide for your decent and comfortable subsistence, and they not only do not perform their duty, but they persecute you. Well, ought you then for this to abandon them? Is it not your duty to remain at your post and hope for better times ? Make every exertion, every sacrifice, to enable you to do justice by everybody, including your family ; but I confess that if I was in your situation I would not quit my post. " Eemember me kindly to Mrs. Foster, and " Believe me, my dear sir, " Yours most sincerely and affectionately, (Signed) " Wellington." In the general election of December 1832 I was, after a long protracted canvass and an arduous contest, elected one of the Members for the borough of Hertford. Early in the following year, however, the result of that election was questioned ; and during many weeks my time was almost quite engrossed by the proceedings of the Hertford election committee. In the course of it I received two notes from the Duke with cordial good wishes for my success. But the result proved far otherwise. Both I and my colleague Lord Ingestre lost our seats. D 2 36 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1833. Soon afterwards I went abroad for some months, much mortified at my own disappointment, and perhaps the more inclined on that account to take a gloomy view of public affairs. The Duke on my departure wrote to me as follows : — " London, July 9, 1833. " My deak Lord Mahon, " I am very sorry that you are going ; but I confess that I wish that I could go likewise. I would do any- thing to be able to quit this unfortunate and unhappy country. " Believe me ever yours most sincerely, " Wellington." On my return from the Continent I passed some weeks with my grandfather. Lord ,Carrington, at Deal Castle. My familiar intercourse with the Duke was there resumed. WALK WITH THE DUKE AT WALMEB. Oct. 4. " I o'^ce had a sort of book or memorandum which I am very sorry to have lost ; it gave an account of the early life of Louis Philippe. His conduct during the Eevolution was bad — very disgraceful indeed. On the other hand, I have looked a good deal into the details of his father Egalite's * life, and I don't think he was so very bad a man as we commonly believe." He was a coward — was he not ? " Yes — but not on the whole so bad as is imagined. " I had a very bad opinion of Louis XVIII. — he was . selfish and false in the highest degree. I always thought better of Charles X., but you see what he came to at last ! " I called on the Duke by appointment, to give him a . * Poet, p. 64. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 37 communication entrusted to me on foreign affairs i833. by * * *. "I tliink," he said, " peace will be main- Oct. 5. tained. It is the interest of the Allies ; for the real fact is that with England hostile or even neutral, France is too strong for them. Moreover, I have always said, if we are to have a war let it be a war of ambition, not a war of opinion. Napoleon's wars were none of them wars of opinion. Peace is also Louis Philippe's interest. He is a monstrous able fellow, much abler than is commonly supposed, but g, * * * *. If he in a war should take the command himself, he is no great general, and should he be beat there would be an end of his throne. If, on the other hand, he should select one of his officers as general and that officer should gain battles, there would be a great chance of that officer making himself king or emperor in his place. There is Ms real risk. He has great power ; he has all the views and ambition of a Bourbon combined with all the popular support of a EadicaL* He has everything that the Bourbons had except the Court. The Court hates him and he despises them — that is the plain fact. I learn from several quarters that he would not be displeased to see a new and more conservative government established here. He sees that they are very foolish and very insecure, and he would like to have something firmer to rely upon. His own policy has completely changed since June last year. I always said it would. The people about him — Madame de Flahaut, for instance, who was formerly the fiercest Pi,adical in the world — now I understand hold very different language as to the necessity of maintaining order and the inefficiency of the Whigs in that respect. "If there should be a civil war in Spain on the * Fast, p. 50. 38 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1833. King's death, I doubt very much whether the French ^^~ even if willing could keep out of it; they would be so strongly called upon. If they did mix in it, I don't mean to say that the relative strength of the French and the Allies might not be very much altered to the disadvantage of the former. They would be assisted by a very small party, which from their support would grow still smaller. The Liberals in Spain are very few. The French would be in a great measure in the same position as in their first invasion. They would find as before that they would have everything to pay in that country, and it would draw a great force of theirs from their other frontiers." « * » * * What were George Villiers's instructions ? — he told me that he had called on your Grace. " Yes, I saw him; but we merely had some general conversation about Spain, and he spoke to me about my own affairs there. He seemed to me to go out with a very bad , opinion of Zea Bermudez. I told him that as far as I knew or believed Zea Bermudez had always acted very well ; in our time he certainly did. ***** " I don't know what might be Villiers's instructions. But I do know what Sir Stratford Canning's were, and I will tell you. He was empowered to offer that if Spain would interfere for a cessation in arms in Portugal — which at that time would have been the ruin of Don Miguel — we would guarantee the young Princess's succession in Spain. Did you ever hear anything so shameful ? The Spanish Government behaved very well upon it; they tried to obtain this offer in writing, but Sir Stratford would only make it verbally, and he made it to the King ! THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 39 " Did * * * know, or do you," asked the Duke, 1833, " what passed at the Congress in Bohemia 1 " "^^ No, he did not ; he had sent his secretary, but he had not yet returned. " "Well, then, I will tell you what I know about it. It was not preconcerted — the King of Prussia actually protested against the Emperor of Eussia's coming. He said that he could not refuse to meet and receive his son-in-law in his own dominions, but would not go on with him into Bohemia. His remark was just enough : II n'est pas I'avant garde. The Emperor of Austria said to everybody in the same way, that he did not even know on what subjects the Emperor of Eussia was going to confer with him. The fact is that, as the King of Prussia implied, they feel themselves the most exposed ; whilst the other, having Poland struggling and tearing under him, wishes to put down the cause of insurrection everywhere, and thinks that things will never be quiet or settled while usurpation prevails at Paris. Nor do I know that they will — he may be quite right there ; but the question is whether in attempting to put out the fire^ you may not be stirring and increasing it." In reference to * * * threat that the Allies held our commercial prosperity in their power, and that we might block up not their ports but our own in case of pro- hibition on their part — " That after all is Indumfulmen. They may do something in that way but very little. Nothing that they can say or do will prevent English commodities from finding some way or other of intro- ducing themselves into their dominions." The Duke and I then spoke about our home affairs. The same day (Oct. 5), I dined with him at Walmer Castle. On the table was a sort of ^ergne in silver, 40 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH ,1833, -^ith an inscription and surmounted by a figure of Victory. It was the gift of his officers after Eoliqa* and Vimiera. In explaining the Latin inscription to Mrs. Arbuthnot, who was next me, I called Eoliga a skirmish. "IsTo," said the Duke, who overheard me, " Eoli^a was one of our most important affairs ; it was terrible hard work to drive off the French. When we had got possession of the heights, they attacked us, and I had only three battalions to stand firm against them. Our men fought monstrous well. Junot was not there ; the Trench were commanded by Laborde, a very good officer. "We were nearly twice as numerous as they were ; at Vimiera,t on the contrary, they had rather more men than we had. Laborde was expecting Loison with about as many more troops as himself, and Junot had a third body about as strong at Lisbon. My move- ments at Eoli^a prevented Loison from joining, and obliged him to make a large circuit through the moun- tains." Had your Grace Bernardim Freire with you ? " No ; Don Bernardim was neither there nor at Vimiera. I remember saying to him : You think that I shall be beat by the French ; but mark my words, I shall beat them. However, he went ; there was no keeping him." Did he not apply to be fed with his troops instead of supplying you ? " Yes, he did ; and I would have fed them if they would have stayed. I did in fact feed about three or four thousand who stayed under Trant. Trant, poor fellow ! a very good officer, but a drunken dog as ever lived." * Napier's ' Peninsular War,' i. p. 127. t Napier's ' Peninsular War,' i. p. 133, and ' The Oroker Papers,' ii. p. 122. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 41 How did his men fight at Vimiera ? 1833. " 111 ; they were of little or no use. Trant, however ""^ (laughing), issued a proclamation, calling them Valorosos Portugueses ! Another expression was desiring them to put on OS carros fences a os enemigos — their ferocious countenances against the enemy ! ^ * * * * " I knew the Due Mathieu de Montmorency always very well. When he came from Verona, he was asked to breakfast with Louis XVIII. the next morning, and the way he was raised to a dukedom was by the King's saying to him : Ah, ton jour. Due Mathieio de Mont- morency ! There was no patent — that alone made the promotion." Lord Eosslyn here observed that George IV. in Scotland had in a similar manner announced the pro- motion of the provost to a baronetcy, by drinking his health at table as Sir Something. DINNER AT WALMER CASTLE TO MEET PBINCE GEORGE OF CAMBRIDGE. The Duke asked me as to a book I had just lent him, oct. 14. tSjir la Restauration de la Societe Frangaisc. I particu- larly praised one chapter, proving that in well-regulated monarchies more surely than in republics men of genius come to the helm. " That," said the Duke, " is the true government. It is a mistake to suppose that disturbed times have a tendency to bring forth able men. That is not the case. Look of late years to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium — they have been ransacked through and through, and whoin have they produced ? Third-rate and fourth-rate men at most." 42 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1833. The Duke went into several instances. " See Zea Bermudez, who has been twice Prime Minister; you know him as well as I do — very dull and stupid — and even vulgar. Palmella is able, but quite second-rate." But, Sir, is not France an exception to your remark ? " I think not.* Bonaparte is a man apart ; you must not put him into the common scale ; he might have started up at any time. But, except him, the French Eevolution has not produced very superior men. Talleyrand, I don't reckon — he belonged to the ancient regime." But surely that crisis in France brought forth many great characters ? " Where are they ? " * *- ^ * * " On the whole, I think it very doubtful whether, since the suppression of the Jesuits, the system of education has been as good, or whether as remarkable men have appeared. I am quite sure that they have not in the south of Europe." I talked of Villele. " Aye, Villele is, I should say, about the ablest man I saw amongst tliem. He was at first a lieutenant in the ISTavy. When Lord Cornwallis was sent out to capture a French scjuadron which was secretly bringing assistance to Tippoo (I think the Duke said), Villele was serving in it. He was then captured, but afterwards set at liberty. I found him at Toulouse, where he was recommended to me as a royalist, and where I was useful to him in promoting his appointment as mayor. That was the commencement of his fortunes. * iif -* -» * Arbuthnot told me that, in the House of Commons, Lord Castlereagh having made an excellent reply on * Post, p. 154. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 43 some quite unexpected attack, Canning, who was sitting 1833. next ArbutKnot, turned round to him and said : What '^^ a wonderful man Castlereagh is ! Never at a loss ! Now for my part I own I like to know some time beforehand what I have to say. Croker added that Canning had said something similar to him. Nothing, observed Canning, can be done without a great deal of pains. I prepare very much on many subjects ; a great part of this is lost and never comes into play, but sometimes an opportunity arises when I can bring in something I liave ready, and I always perceive the much greater effect of those passages upon the House. I asked the Duke what was the last time he had been under the gallery of the House of Commons ? " Not for ten or twelve years. The last time I was there was when Canning called Queen Caroline the grace and ornament of female society." Did that make much effect upon the House ? " No, I think not." HUNTING IN THE MORNING, AND DINNER AT WALMER CASTLE AFTERWARDS. We talked of the King of the Netherlands' speech. Oct. 24. How can the Dutch, I said, be so able and willing to go on paying their whole debt — both Belgium's share and their own ? " Why, I don't know — they are monstrous rich — if any nation could bear it they can. An attempt too is now making to impose the whole debt upon them permanently, but that must faQ. Injustice can never be lasting — I am convinced of that." ***** Of Spain. "I think if Sarsfield and the other 44 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1833. generals of armies have really declared for the Queen, ■"^ her power will stand. A good deal also will depend upon herself: if she will only govern on the late King's system, it is all that anybody wants." But would not her government be subservient to France ? " Not long." * # * * # Of Corporations. "I have always considered them and also the House of Lords as checks ; they have no power of their own, but check the power of others. Without them there must be a rush either to despotism or to democracy. That is exactly our present situation, and the rush seems to be on the side of democracy — that is all. The object of Lord Brougham is to leave ■only one single power in the state — the tenpounders." V 'IE' 'S' Ti" ifr Of the Catholic question. "After the permanent regency the Catholic question stood upon new ground — the opinions of George the Third were no longer to be defended. » * * * # "The Government wished me to go to Ireland in 182 — . I told them : I am ready to go anywhere you please, but remember my going will attract notice not only in England but in Europe. Take care that you don't let off your great gun against a sparrow ! * What is it you want me to do for you ? If you want me to put down the row, I will do that easily enough ; but if afterwards I am merely to continue the divided system — a Lord-Lieutenant one way and a Secretary the other — I tell you fairly I don't expect any good from it. So they sent Lord Wellesley, and after him Lord Anglesey ; * Post, p. 289. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 45 and the affairs of Ireland, as you see, have gone on from 1833. bad to worse to my government. ""^ * » * * « " My brother-in-law, Colonel Pakenham, tells me : Don't believa if you hear that Catholic emancipation has not done any good in Ireland ; it has produced and is producing very considerable benefit in the country about me. * * * What I looked to as the great advantage of the measure was that it would unite all men of property and character together in one interest against the agitators. My opinion has never varied. I said many years ago* — from the first — that whenever the Crown could be brought to consent, that question should be settled. Justice will never be done me on that subject till people have seen my memorial to the King." Did not you think in 1829 (I did for one) that the anti-Catholic feeling in the country was very far stronger than one could have expected ? " ISTo ; the petitions on that side were no great things — signed by the clergyman, the clerk, and three or four more in the parish. I was offered petitions to be got' up on the other side — all the Dissenters in the North would have stirred, but I refused." What would have been the effect at that time of forming an exclusive anti-Catholic government ? "It could scarcely have been done — there were not men for it. So many of our own friends would have left us if we had made such an attempt. For instance, Vesey Fitzgerald would have left us — Ellenborough would have left us — perhaps even Aberdeen would have left us. We could not then reckon on a House of * ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 281. 46 NQTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH ^^- Commons like the present, ready to back a government in anything it chose to do. * * * * * "Ireland has gained prodigiously by the Union — it is now the Poland of England. They have no taxes compared to ours, and the English market is thrown open to their corn and meat. Never did a country combine greater advantages." But Dublin, Sir, must have lost? "No — even Dublin has gained by the Union. Look to facts. Dublin is now twice as large as it was thirty years ago." DINNER AT WALMER CASTLE. Oct, 26. The Duke, Lord and Lady Salisbury, Sir John Keane, the Granville Somersets, and I. Who was the ablest of the French generals opposed to you ? " Massena."* * * * iit * " The story of Cuesta's refusing to fight because it was Sunday is not true ; he made many other foolish excuses, but that was not one of them. " Cuesta used always to take the field in a coche de collera with six horses." But, Sir, in the byroads ? "He never went into them — he did not trouble himself much about viewing the ground. In a battle however, he would get on horseback. He did not want courage nor sense either, but was an obstinate old man, and had no military genius — none of them have. If he would have fought when I wanted him at Talavera,t I * 'The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 310, and 'The Greville MemoirB' (Part I.), i. p. 71, and supra, p. 20. t Napier's ' Peninsular War,' ii. p. 165. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 47 have no hesitation in saying tliat it would have been as 1833. great a battle as Waterloo, and would have cleared Spain of the French for that time. * * * After the battle that we did have, it was settled that I should laarch against Soult at Placentia and that Guesta should remain in his position and take care of my hospital at Talavera. Scarcely five hours after I had gone, Guesta began to retreat too, and gave up the hospital ! We lost 1500 men in it." * ^ * ^ ^ If I am not mistaken, all your Grace's engagements except Eolipa were fought against superior numbers ! " No ; at Yittoria* we had, including the Spaniards, more troops than the French. We had 66,000 English and Portuguese, but 6000 I had sent out as a detach- ment with * * * The French had 70 or 80,000. Eoliga was a small affair of 12,000 men against 7 or 8." ***** What was the total number of killed at Waterloo ? " On both sides there must have been between thirty and forty thousand. It is impossible ever to say exactly what the French lose. I remember seeing a large French column entering the wood behind Hou- goumont, and another about as large going out on another side. I said : This is the oddest manceuvre I ever saw ; but on looking more closely I found that the last cplumn consisted only of wounded. There were thousands limping off from the field. a * * * * " The young Duke of Orleans appeared to me very well informed." * Napier's 'Peninsular War,' v. ii. 120. 48 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH AT STEATEPIELBSAYE, 1834. 1834. ^ lar2;e party, and therefore less of private conver- Jan, 20. o f J> i Jan. 21. sation. The Duke showed me over his new apparatus for warming the house by tubes of hot water, and told me that including the expense of setting it up, it had cost 219?. After dinner we spoke of Spain and Llander's pro- clamation in Catalonia. "You may depend upon it," said the Duke, "that the real tendency of those pro- vinces is to be independent of one another. The same thing is going on in Prance and Italy. It is the tendency of this age. The provinces everywhere want to break loose from the capitals." Would it ever be possible, I asked, that on the contrary Spain and Portugal should coalesce into one state ? "ISTo, not unless there was an utterly inefficient government here in England. Else we should never allow such a thing. No, no ; even the Whigs would admit that ! " We talked of * * * * . I observed that I thought he knew very little. " Not much, certainly. The first thing to know in life is to see what one does under- stand and what one does not. Now the * * * * does not know enough to see that he knows nothing." Is he a good officer ? I inquired. " Why, in fact, he is no officer at all. He was very young when he came out to me — he can know nothing about it, I should think." STBATHFIELDSAYE. Jan. 22. We spoke of Spain again. The Duke mentioned the reversal of the Salic law by Ferdinand VII. with THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 49 great indignation. " To bequeath a civil war to one's 1834. country ! " he said. " One may love a woman very ""^ well, but should not quite incur a ciyiI war for her sake. The fact is (laughing), that when an old man falls in love with a young woman, there is no saying what may be the consequences ! " He told us of a conversation he had had with Louis XVIII. on the flight of the latter from Paris. We were all frightened to death, said the King. What, all ? said the Duke. Oui, tous, cxcepte Ic Due dc Duras, qui etait si hete qu'il %e voyait pas le danger ! Lady Salisbury told me that the Duke, who was next to her at dinner, spoke to her of his Indian despatches,* now in the course of publication. " I have just," he said, " been reading them over, and was surprised to find them so good — they are as good as I could write now. They show the same attention to details — to the pursuit of all the means, however small, that could pro- mote success." STBATHFLELDSA YE. After dinner we talked of India. The Duke gave an Jan, 2S. account of his attack at Assaye and of his acting on the conclusion that there must be a fordf at a particular point of the river because he there saw two villages on the opposite sides of it. " That," he added, " is common sense. And when one is strongly latent on an object, common sense will usually direct one to the right means." I asked about the gigantic statue to the southward of Seringapatam which Captain Hall mentioned his visiting. * Post, p. 57. t ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 353, and i^osf, p. 182. E 50 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1834. He said that he remembered it, that it was of vast height at the top of a mountain, a very magnificent object, and the only remains of the worship of Boodha that he remembered in India. The Brahmin, you are aware," he said, "is a very different religion, they worship everything ! " Is not Seringapatam a modern city ? " No ; on the contrary, a very ancient one. It is built at the junction of two waters, which there is always a favourite situation. The whole river is sacred, but particularly so at any such junction." STBATEFIELDSA YE. Jan. 24. Some conversation on shooting. The Duke told us : " In 1825, the last time I was at Paris, I went out shooting with Charles X.* in the forest of St. Germains. I had shot with him before at Versailles and the other royal domains. He was then a very old man, yet he walked from half-past nine till half-past three — a measured distance of 15 or 16 miles. He is a very good shot; in the first 160 times that he fired, I saw that he did not miss once." And the Dauphin ? " A good shot too, but less so. He was on horseback all that day instead of walking. Altogether we brought home 1700 head of game. I killed two hundred odd for my own share. When I came afterwards to dine at Lord Stuart's (I think it was), I found my hand quite destroyed — I was obliged to tie it up." I had shown the Duke my father's two last letters * ' The Croker Papers,' i. p 282. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 51 about Caspar Hauser,* and asked his opinion. He said 1834. that on the whole he thought it was an imposture from "^ the beginning. " How is a man," he argued, " to be kept underground for years without its being known ? The things taken out from his dungeon must disclose it." He added that Hauser was fortunate in fixing; upon Germany ; they are very prone to marvellous stories in that country. From thence he went on to speak of savages, &c. " I remember to have hoard a story of O'Higgins, the governor of Valparaiso, when a fellow came there with another pretending to show him about as a ' wild Irishman ! ' — in a cage and poked at with a stick ! O'Higgins, knowing very well there were no wild Irishmen " And perhaps, I added, taking the show as a reflection on himself. " Yes, perhaps. Well, he soon made an example of those fellows. * * * The most savage tribes that I believe exist are those of the Andaman Islands in the Bay of Bengal. They are not acquainted even with the use of fire, and that is perhaps the greatest pitch of bar- barism. They are real woolly-headed negroes, of whom there are none in India. How then did they get to these islands from Africa ? They could not have built ships and navigated them without knowing the use of fire." The Duke afterwards talked of Spain with Addington and me. He mentioned the very cold winds that blew from the Sierra Estrella. " I never suffered more from cold than during the manojuvres of the days preceding * The extraordinary imposture of Caspar Hauser, who suddenly appeared at Nuremberg in 1828, ^ and was murdered or committed suicide in 1834, still exercises the minds of investigators in Germany. E 2 52 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1834, the battle of Salamanca. You have no idea what the cold was. Yet it was then the end of June at least. " To travel in Spain costs a fortune if you are to post relays of tiros on the road — and there was no other way in my time but riding post. * « « « * " Do you know what O'Lawler says of the Spaniards ? that they are the most ingenious people in the world, and he gives this reason for it, that in the coclio de coUeras, the mcyoral, who is the coachman, and the zagal, the boy, fill their pockets full of small stones on setting out, and pelt the mules with them as they go along. How ingenious ! says O'Lawler." STRATHFIELBSAYE. Jan. 25. Conversation upon Spain with the Duke and Addington. " You may depend upon it," said the Duke, " that the real government of the Spanish provinces was in the Cabildo — and a fair good government it was ; and the royal power by the captain-general was the only thing that kept them together. Eemove or weaken that power, and the provinces will all fall asunder and set up for themselves. No, depend upon it, Spain is gone — Spain is gone." I said that I had heard, on the contrary, that there was a growing opinion amongst the Spaniards and Portuguese that if united they might bid defiance to the world, and that therefore 1 thought it not impossible they might in case of troubles meditate an union. " I should think," said the Duke, " that very few men of sense amongst them thought that. For us it would THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 53 be a very bad thing. England -will always be able to 1834. direct and manage Portugal alone, but if united with "^^ Spain there would be but little influence and great difficulty. * * * # * " I believe the reason that has induced so many re- spectable and reasonable men in Spain to wish for the succession of the young Queen is the knowledge that Don Carlos is governed by his priests, and that then- government would lead again to a reaction of Liberalism and confusion. They hate fanaticism for its own sake, but still more as being the road to anarchy. If Don Carlos had been of a different character, everybody would have been for him. " Their army amounts at most to thirty or forty thousand men, and they have not an officer amongst them — not one — not one I believe who is fit to com- mand even a regiment ! " The conversation afterwards became more general, and turned to the late war in Spain. Lord F. L. Gower &sked whether Napoleon had been very angry with his generals for their defeats ? " He was at first with Marmont,* until he read our despatches. He then said : This I see is the real truth ; it was a hard-fought battle ; the man too is wounded ; and so, on the whole, I shall overlook it. " JTapoleon considered Soult his best homme de guerre. Suchet I never was opposed to, but from what I heard I did not think very highly of him. He had never the same difficulties to contend with as Soult. * ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 310. S4 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1834. "I knew Dnpojit at Paris as Minister of War; he seemed nothing remarkable. " Foy was a greater man in their Parliament than in war. His work on Spain* I have not read. He was some time in communication at our outposts in Spain with Baron ■ , who used to lend him English news- papers. At that time they were cut off from all inter- course with France, and had no other means of infor- mation than those papers afforded. When I heard of Foy's having them, I put a stop to it, and desired Baron to ask him what he wanted them for. What do you think was the answer ? He said that he was speculating in the English funds, and only wanted to know the price of the Three per cents. ! I desired that he might be informed of the price of the Funds as often as he pleased, but should not see the papers ! " The Duke told us the story of a French spy t named Osire, who had given him much information, who had afterwards come to stay at his camp under the name of Juan de la Eosa, and who, there was reason to think, betrayed both sides by sending private intelligence to Soult. " Yet," said the Duke, " I watched him closely, and I set Alava and other Spaniards to watch him too. A Spaniard is the best person in the world to set on such a busiaess. Yet, in spite of every care, I believe he did communicate with his countrymen. We treated him very well — he dined at my table during several months. I remember once Batbedat, the Spanish banker at Bayonne, meeting him there, and inquiring his name, and being told Juan de la Eosa, saying to * But see 'The Croker Papers,' i. p. 352, where the Duke is reported to have exposed General Foy's misstatements of fact in his history of the Peninsular War, adding, however, that he was a very distinguished oiBcer. t Ante, p. 20, and post, pp. 71 and 249. ■,-%./ THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 55 Alava,* 3Tais ce n'est pas tin Espagnol. Demandez a 1834, Milord. Qui est-il ? Demandez a Milord ! At length Alava, tilled out, said to him. Vest peitt-etre Cagliostro. When Soult became Minister of War in 1814, Osire went to him and obtained the payment of all his accounts." What became of him afterwards ? I asked. " He afterwards died. His heir f came to me with a book alleged to be written by him, admitting that he had trahi sa jMlrie, and acted as a villain, but showing that he was a very clever man — and he certainly was so — ' and that my reputation was quite usurped, since it was only from his statements that I had fought my battles. I said to the man who brought me this : Print it by all means — and as soon as possible — for the sooner you print it, the greater and more certain will be your reward ! The man saw that I was laughing at him, and could not help laughing himself Je vois, he said, que Mon- seigneur ne s'en sotccie guere ! " 8TMATSFIELDSA YE. Another conversation on Spain with the Duke and Jan. 26. Addington. The Duke said, " I had this morning a letter from O'Lawler. He teUs me that it is all up with the Carlists, but that things are very far indeed from being settled, and that they never will be tranquil or secure unless they have a government — a govern- ment — the same want which we are feeling here." I mentioned the influence of the grandees. " The grandees ! % I give you my word they have no more influence over the country than this (taking up a billiard queue near him) has influence over my park ! * Ante, p. 20. t Fost, p. 249. % Ante, p. 1. 56 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1834. As I hope to be saved, they are no more in Spain than the valets and ladies'-maids are in my house. Are you aware that they cannot leave Madrid without the King's permission, and that such permissions are granted seldom, and only for a couple of months. They are quite unknown to their tenants and dependents. And still more — they are so abased, as to consider leaving the Court under any circumstances the greatest misfortune. I remember Maria Pepa * (this is the old Duchess of Benavente) lamenting to me as the height of calamity their being appointed to the embassy at Paris — to represent their King at their most important mission! It has been the constant policy of the Government during many reigns to keep them in dependence." But still, I said, the vast domains of some of them — of the Duke of Infantado, for instance. " The Duke of Infantado ! He has a great many villages, but what, after all, is the amount of Ms in- fluence in them ? He has merely the right — de la jMtencc — to raise a gibbet ! That is the extent of his power." LONDON. April 26. Dined at Apsley House. Talked of the House of Commons. "What I am afraid of is that when we attempt true government we shall come to a stand- still." We were looking at Charles X.'s full-length portrait in the dining-room. The Duke compared him to our James II. "When one reads Mazure's book, one is much struck at the many points of likeness. And yet * Post, pp. 79 and 188. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 57 "what is very curious is — and I know it for a j)ositive 1834. fact — that they ordered that book to be %mtten on "^ purpose to show that there was no likeness at all ! " LONDON. Dined at Apsley House. The Duke spoke of liis May 18. Indian despatches,* lately published by Gurwood. " I have been much amused at reading them over — the energy and activity are quite as great then as ever afterwards. I don't think I could write better now, after all my experience. * * * * • " During three years I was always in tents — never slept in a house." ilrs. Arbuthnot asked him whether it was not true that at the siege of Gameghur he had had, in addition to all liis other duties, to ride fifty miles daily ? " Yes, that is not mentioned in the book. Colonel Stevenson was attacking the fortress on another side — he was taken ill — he was then an old man ; I was obliged to attend to his business as well as to my own, and thus I rode every morning to his station, which by the cir- cuitous road roimd the hills was twenty-five miles from mine and twenty-five back every day." What is become of the Peshwah ? " Malcolm was afterwards obliged to depose him — a shocking fellow ! — impossible to get on with Mm. He said afterwards that he had only three friends in the world— ilalcolm. Colonel Close, and myself ! * * * « * "Colonel Murray, who gave me so much trouble in Guzerat, was nevertheless a clever man." * Ante, p. 49. 58 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1834. 'j;\^[q led the Dnke to Spain by an account of Murray's failure at Tarragona.* He added, "I re- member that the aide-de-camp who was sent to England with that news came to my headquarters a day or two after Vittoria. "We were going to dinner ; it was the first day we had dined in the pursuit. I advised him to say nothing at all of the news he brought — and no more he did — he sat quiet the whole evening, hearing and receiving congratulations. Else — we were all in such triumph — he would at the very least have been turned out of the room. "I did not much care as to whether Murray took Tarragona or not. My object was to draw Suchet to him ; for I knew that, having defeated the French at Vittoria, Suchet, if once he went, would never think of returning." Was Suchet an able general ? " Wot so much as his predecessor St. Cyr." We spoke of Napier's fourth volume just published. " I have not read it," said the Duke ; " I am determined not to read any of it till the six volumes — or whatever they are — are all out, and then I will read them fairly through, I dare say with much entertainment (smiling). But I will not read them now. I might else be tempted into contradicting him — into authorising somebody to answer him for me. j!^ow I will have nothing to do with writing a book." Is it true. Sir, as Napier seems to state,t that you several times threatened an intention of giving up the command ? " Oh no, I never did any such thing. I dare say I may have said as often as fifty times : D it, if you don't do this or that you may as well give up the war- * Napier's 'Peninsular War,' v. p. H3. f III. p. 278. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, 59 at once ; but I never stated my idea of renouncing it. 1834 So far from it, that once, when there was a report of tlie Whigs coming in, and of their intending to send out Lord Hastings to judge whether the war ought to be carried on or not, I had determined not to be governed by anything Lord Hastings might say, but to go on in my own course as long as I was at all supported from England. " The Duchess showed JSTapier many of my papers. I also gave him a few. You know that he was living near Strathfieldsaye." I inquired as to ISTapier's story about Mr. Canning and the Portuguese troops before Waterloo.* " It is true," said the Duke, " that I wished to have those troops. I asked for 10,000, and I wrote before I left the Congress at Vienna, so that there was time enough for them to have been in Flanders in the month of May. I thought it would raise the character of Portugal to send those troops to be fighting the battle of Europe in the North, and I should have found them very useful. I don't tliink, however, Canniug was at all to blame for those troops not being sent me ; it was not his fault ; but — (here he checked himself) the fact is we are too near those times to write or to tell history." The mention of this led us to the Waterloo campaign. " ISTapoleon," said the Duke, "had never so fine an army as on that occasion. He was certainly wrong in attackiug at all. There were four armies going to enter France— before the harvest — and in a country much exhausted by the last campaign. We should have been reduced to many straits for subsistence — in fact, I don't hesitate to say that the Prussians were already in great difficulties. As for me, I have always taken most * Napier's ' Peninsular War,' IIL p. 274, and post, p. 272. 6o NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH .1834. especial care of the subsistence of my troops. IsTapoleon ""^ might, after providing for the other frontiers, have stationed himself somewhere on the Meuse with nearly 300,000 men. He might have played again the same game which he had played so admirably the year before — that campaign of 1814 I consider the very finest he ever made* — he might have manoeuvred from one invading army to the other and attacked them separ- ately. He did so for a long while with success in 1814, but at last lost patience and threw himself on the rear of the Allies. It is very odd, but certainly Wintzingerode and Ms Cossacks took him in. He ought to have taken the same line in 1815, and might have given us great trouble, and had many chances in his favour. Instead of this, by Waterloo he put an end to the war at once. But the fact is, he never in his life had patience for a defensive war." f Is it true, Sir, that Napoleon after Waterloo had an ■opportunity of striking a great blow when the Prussian and English armies were separated by the Seine ? He said so himself, in a letter to the government of the time. " Oh stuff ! he could have done no such thing. There never was any moment for such an enterprise. When we were near the Seine, I rode into the village of Gonesse to meet Bliicher, and asked him to wait a day for my troops, which he did. In advancing to Paris, the Prussians had come across our line of march, and from being on our left were then on our right. Bliicher consented to wait ; his troops then crossed, bu.t we were close together and had plenty of bridges. The Prussians lost a few men at Versailles, but that was of * 'The GreviUe Memoirs' (Part I.), i. p. 71, and ante, p. 8. t IbiJ. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 6l little importance. They could not liave fought us 1834. separately; and as to a general engagement, we had 120,000 men, and they could not have brought more than 80,000 out of Paris. We gave them no time, we were so close behind them after Waterloo." Here is another subject of correspondence. Lord Mahon to the Dulx of Wellington. My DKA.E Duke, I recei^'ed yesterday evening a letter from Colonel Gurwood at Paris, who ■wishes me to trouble youi' Grace with two inquiries. Your Grace is, no doubt, already aware that Colonel Gurwood on going abroad reqirested me to superintend and forward to the press the iwoof-sheds of his second volume during his absence ; a task which I shall have the greatest pleasure in fulfilling. Por that purpose he told me that he had asked you to have the goodness to transmit to me the proof-sheets which you shall receive after revising them. He now asks me to apply to your Grace to be pleased to let me have an explanation of the term " department of Meer Sudeloor ? " which occurs at page 151, and which is not intelligible to the general reader. He also tells me that in a subsequent proof-sheet wliich I have not yet received, an allusion is made in one of your Grace's letters of April 8, 1804, to one which you wrote to the chairman of the meeting of the inhabitants of Calcutta on being presented with a sword of 1000^. value. This letter Colonel Gurwood is very desirous of inserting, and he begs me to inquire whether your Grace has preser^'ed a copy of it. I have the honour, &c. 62 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1834. From this time forward Colonel Gurwood constantly consulted me in the preparation of his work. Not a single proof-sheet of the Duke's despatches went to press without being first laid before me for any verbal or other observations that I might have to make. My marriage took place July 10, 1834, and soon afterwards we went for some weeks to Switzerland. On our return we passed a fortnight at Paris ; the scene at that particular juncture of some curious political changes. Of these, having at the time very good sources of political information, I wrote a full account to the Duke. It so chanced that at the very time in which I wrote there occurred in England a still more singular ministerial revolution, which produced the brief Dictator- ship (as he used laughingly to call it) of the Duke of Wellington,* and the almost as short-lived administra- tion of Sir Robert Peel. Under these circumstances the Duke's reply to me was as follows : — " Lo>'DON, Nov. 16, 1834. "My deak Lord Mahon, "I was very much obliged to you for your kind letter, and the very intelligent account which you gave me of the negotiations for the formation of the Ministry at Paris, and of its final formation. "I can return you a Roland for your Oliver, and inform you at least of the result of our ministerial revolutions here. I am in harness again ; and I have sent to bring home Sir Eobert Peel. " I always told you that Lord Althorp was the main- stay of the Government in the House of Commons. * 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part I.), iii. pp. 149 and 154, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 63 His father's death having removed him to the Lords is 1834. the principal cause of the change. "I conclude that this change and its consequences "vvill bring you home as soon as Lady Mahon can move. Indeed, I have long wished for you at Deal Castle. " For this reason, and as I have much to do, I will add no more at present to this than to assure you, with best compliments to Lady Mahon, that I am " Ever yours most sincerely, " Wellington." This letter was, I believe, the only one from the Duke of Wellington which reached Paris on the change of government. As the only one, the rumour of its having come excited great attention, and I remember that our ambassador. Earl Granville, called to see me at the lies Britanniqyxs, Eue de la Paix, evidently on purpose to fish about it. At the close of the same month I returned to England, and in the new administration which was formed by Sir Eobert Peel in the December following, the Duke having taken the office of Secretary of State for Foreign Affaii-s, I had the honour to be named Under Secretary of State in that department. The new administration, as is well known, fell before an adverse majority of the House of Commons in the month of April ensuing. I do not design in this place to say anything of the business at the Foreign Office or of my communications with the Duke during that official period. My notes of his conversation were not resumed until the autumn found us once again his neighbours, as the guests of my grandfather at Deal Castle. 64 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAL. 1835. -^Y-g ^^^^ ^^ Walmer. Sept. 29. The conversation in the evening was led by Croker's recent article in the ' Quarterly ' to Eobespierre and other French revolutionists. The Duke told me that he had heard Pasquier speak of Robespierre whom he knew ; but that Pasquier, being then a very young. man, remembered little except the extreme terror which the name of Eobespierre everywhere inspired at the time. The Duke said that he thought * Philippe Egalite a rather less odious character than is commonly supposed. This, he added, is not saying much. But many unjust charges are brought against him. Such is also the opinion of Talleyrand. He was first driven into oppo- sition by the misconduct of Marie Antoinette, who had taken a violent dislike to him, and encouraged the courtiers to insult him. At some great ceremonies which he had a right to attend, such as the Grand Couvert, they used on his entering to exclaim, Messieurs — prcnez garelc a vos pocJics ! He must have behaved ill to have given them any such handle of insult ; but still many things are alleged against him without any proof. Lord Eosslyn observed that Philippe Egalite was an agreeable man in society — he had met him at supper at Brooks's. The conversation then turned to Napoleon and after- wards to Berthier.t The Duke gave an account of the latter's death, which he believed to be, as commonly stated, quite accidental. He had formerly gone to shoot with him at Grosbois, and the servant who * Anle, p. 36. t -Posi, p. 248. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 65 attended upon the Duke there, after^^-ards meeting him 1835. at Versailles, gave him a full account of his master's '"'"' death. When Xapoleon came to Paris in 1815 he gave orders to have Berthier pursued in his flight, and if caught, to be brought to Paris in his uniform as Capitaine des Gardes du Eoi ! He meant, no doubt, to upbraid his defection. At "Waterloo the Duke was told -that Napoleon having asked Soult ^Yhether he had sent for Grouchy, Soult answered that he had despatched an officer at a particular hour. Un officier ! exclaimed Napoleon, turning round to his suite ; un officier ! Ah, mon pauvre Berthier ! 8'il avait ete id il en await enroye vingt* Could Grouchy, I inquired, have possibly come up in time? " Quite impossible. He was fifteen or sixteen miles off. He had all that way to march and the river Dyle to cross ; besides, he was then engaged with the Prussians, and he could not have got from them directly, or else the Prussians might have followed him all the way. It was impossible. "Grouchy was a gentleman — a man of birth — I knew him. ***** "Soult was accused by the Bourbons in 1815 of stationing particular regiments in the way of Napoleon from Elba, but the fact is that he had no such view. There was a design to attack King Joachim; Louis XVIII. was always very hot upon it; it was even proposed that I should command the army, but I would not listen to that. I knew that my commanding a Prench army was all nonsense; but Soult being told what was projected, stationed whatever he thought the * Tost, p. 248. 66 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. surest regiments — le regiment du Eoi — le regiment de Monsieur — le regiment d'Orleans — (one of tliese was that of Labedoyere) — on the way to Italy so as to be ready to act. No, I always took the defence of Soult on two points : iirst, as to these regiments ; and secondly on his being said to fight the battle of Toulouse * after hearing of the peace. He did no such thing; I was between him and Paris, and cut him off from every- thing except Languedoc. The news must have gone through me ; I had not heard of the peace, and therefore Soult could not. " At Bayonne they did make a sortie after hearing of the peace ; the governor there was a blackguard." ***** " The most curious book ever written perhaps is the Memoirs of James II. It is all extremely curious ; by his own showing, he was a very weak fellow ; but he had great skill nevertheless for the head of a depart- ment. His arrangements at the Ordnance were ex- cellent. "When I was Master-General I brought it back very much to what he had made it. &' " I read over Lord Clarendon's History at the time of the Eeform Bill, as you did ; (to Arbuthnot) I thought it useful at that time. I was surprised to find how much less able Charles I. appeared than I had thought him. Charles II. was certainly a much more able man than his father or his brother. *■ * * * * "I believe — what is not mentioned in scarcely any of the accounts: — that at the Eevolution the city of London was in a frightful state of anarchy." * Nnpier's 'Peninsular War,' vi. p. 162. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 67 DEAL. Dined at "Walmer Castle. 1835. The Duke, in answer to my inquiries, said that he " ' ' thought the treatment of Napoleon at St. Helena gave no substantial ground of complaint, but that Sir H. Lowe * was a very bad choice. He was a man wanting education and judgment. It was not true that the Austrian Government had made any representations on !N"apoleon's treatment, at the Congress of Aix la Chapelle ; but the Commissioners of the different powers at St. Helena, having nothing else to do there, used to intrigue and report. DEAL. Out with the harriers. The Duke and I spoke of a Nov. 2, good many people. He said of old Leith of Deal, that once, when talking about his health, Leith observed that he never had been quite well since his affair with the Guards. " That sounded very fine. I took it for granted that he had been with the companies of Guards that went to America; I put that down as certain. He could not have been with the Guards in Spain without my knowing it. But it afterwards came out that the case was only this: walking home from Sandwich one night, two soldiers robbed and ill-treated him, and ' this he used to call his affair with the Guards ! ***** " Lady W. Bentinck is a strange woman. I re- member her at Madras being in very bad health, and she had three physicians every day. Now you know * Posf, p. 325. 68 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1835. that when anybody has three physicians, one makes "^^ them of course meet together in consultation. Not so Lady "William. She used to consult each of the three separately, without telling the others. I asked her whether she took all the three prescriptions. She said no, but selected which of the three she thought best." I was struck in this little story with that fixed and unswerving adherence to truth which marks the character of the Duke in even the smallest trifles. How many others telling an anecdote thirty years old would have been tempted to make it much, better by implying that the lady had taken all the three pre- scriptions together ! " There is not on earth so cross-grained a man as Lord * * *; when he is right, he is very right, but when he is wrong — and it is always a hundred to one that he is wrong — there is no setting him right again." We talked of Picton. " He was first mentioned to me by General Miranda,* who had come over to this country to propose to us to revolutionise the South American colonies. The Government appointed me to speak with him; I was then Secretary for Ireland. Miranda said that he knew an extremely clever man called Picton, a man to be much employed — but don't trust him ! for he has so much vanity that if you sent liim out to the Caraccas or the West India Islands, he would attempt to become the prince of them. I said to Miranda, of course, that such an idea of an English officer was quite absurd. When we were afterwards in Spain we wanted major-generals; they sent me out one man after another who could do nothing, and I remembered then what Miranda had said to me, and I * Post, p. 322. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 69 wrote to the Government to ask them to send me 1835. Picton. Well, he came; I found him a rough foul- ^^ mouthed devil as ever lived, but he always behaved extremely well ; no man could do better in different services I assigned to him, and I saw nothing to con- firm what Miranda had said of his ambition. * * * in France* Picton came to me and said : My Lord, I must give up. I am grown so nervous, that when there is any service to be done it works upon my mind so, that it is impossible for me to sleep at nights. I cannot possibly stand it, and I shall be forced to retire. Poor fellow ! he was lolled a few days afterwards." Was that Miranda a brother of the French Ee- publican General ? " The very man. He came over here on purpose to make us revolutionise South America. I always had a horror of revolutionising any country for a political object. I always said, if they rise of themselves, well and good, but do not stir them up; it is a fearful responsibility. * * * I think I never had a more difficult business than when the Government bade me tell Miranda that we would ha-ro nothing to do with his plan. I thought it best to walk out in the streets with him and tell him there, to prevent his bursting out. But even there he was so loud and angry, that I told him I would walk on first a little that we might not attract the notice of everybody passing. When I joined him again he was cooler. He said. You are going over into Spain (this was before Vimiera) — you will be lost — nothing can save you ; that, however, is your affair; but what grieves me is that there never was such an opportunity thrown away ! " Did you know Dumouriez as well as Miranda ? * This must be a mistake. Sir T. Picton -was killed at Waterloo. JO NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH :i835. "Yes, I knew Dumouriez very well. He was a """^ clever, shrewd man, very much like an intriguant. He busied himself very much in drawing up manifestoes and memorials. Wlrat I am going to say shows that one ought never to neglect even little things. We had at that time a great misfortune — an enormous Eoyal family. The Princes were always liable to have intriguers and caballers about them. I knew Dumouriez was just the sort of man for that, and to get through the Princes at the King or the Ministers : he had a knowledge of Portugal, having formerly served there. So, to keep him quiet, I entered into correspondence with him, and continued it till his death. It was chiefly about geography and topography, on wliich Dumouriez had a great many unfounded notions. He thought, for instance, that the mountains beyond Castello Branco were impassable : now, our troops and the French also marched through them twenty times. He thought too that the Tagus could not be forded below Abrantes. Now, almost the first tiling I found when I came to Portugal was that the Tagus could be forded in twenty places, even as low as Villa Franca. I found it the more easy to keep Dumouriez quiet, since he had not the least idea that tins was my object in writing to him." He seems. Sir, to have had considerable military talent ; he conquered Belgium. " Yes, he conquered Belgium when there was no one to defend it. At that battle of Jemmapes, which they talk so much about, there were only eleven thousand Austrians." # # * * « We talked of Gurwood's piiblication, and I expressed my astonishment that the Duke should have been able THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 71 to write so many letters in the midst of active opera- 1835. tions. He said: "My rule always was to do the '^^ business of the day in the day." DEAL. Dined at "Walmer Castle. The Duke, speaking of Nov. 3. Don Carlos, repeated to us a conversation which had passed between the King and General Alava. " Is it true, said the King, that Zumalacarregui is dead ? — Yes, Sir. I am very sorry to hear it ! And pray, has Don Carlos any good generals left to command liis troops ? — Yes, Sir, both Eguia and Iturralde are with him, and able men. I am very happy to hear it ! " The Duke talked of Mr. Boyd's Journal in MS., wliich I had lent him, and which he thought a very faithful account. DEAL. Dined at "Walmer Castle with the Lockharts. After Nov. 11. dinner the Duke gave us an acount of his operations after Vittoria. He said that on one occasion before Pamplona,* Soult had been pointed out to him through a glass by the . French spy f Osire (called in his camp Don Juan de la Eosa), and that by the direction in which Soult pointed liis baton and by his other gesticu- lations, the Duke had been enabled to guess the orders he was giving, and immediately sent off to direct a counter movement. On another occasion he had cut off Soult's retreat, posting English troops who were not discovered in his rear. But the plan failed, from three of the soldiers * Ante, p. 19, and post, p. 143. t -^nte, pp. 20 and 54, and post, p. 249. 72 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1835. going forward to rob a cherry-tree. They were taken — the Duke saw them ride off behind the gens d'armes ' who took them — and half an hour afterwards Soult was in motion and effected Iiis escape. 1836. The letters that follow refer to an impending motion upon Cracow and to other business in the House of Commons. " Stkathfieldsate, March 13, 1836. "My deae Lord Mahon, "I don't recollect the terms of the articles of the treaty of Vienna regarding Cracow ; and I have not here a copy of the treaty. As Well as I can recollect, the three Continental Powers are constituted joint protectors of the town of Cracow. "There may be a stipulation about troops. But there can be none to prevent the government of the town from calling upon its protectors to protect its inhabitants from murder and plunder by a set of miscreants who have collected there, having been driven from Poland, Switzerland, &c. " The pretension that England and France are to protect revolutions wherever they may find them, and that the other Powers of Europe are not to protect the legitimately established governments which they are bound to protect, is unreasonable and extravagant. " I shall be in London to-morrow, and will look at ) the treaty of Cracow. " I will read Captain Henningsen's book. " Believe me ever yours, " Most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington." THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 73 " London, March 17, 1836. 1836, "My deae Loed Mahon, --^^ "1 have looked over tlie articles of the treaty of Vienna regarding Cracow.* " The 6th article is the one on which the discussion will turn. You will see that the second member of the article imposes upon the town a duty. I don't know whether they have performed this duty. If not, whether they are unwilling or unable to perform it. I have seen in a newspaper a statement that a number of Poles had established themselves in Cracow ; and that a system of terror, of violence, and even of assassina- tion prevailed there. It is probable, therefore, that the government of the town was unable to perform the stipulation of the second part of the 6th article of the treaty; and that its members had called upon the protecting Powers to assist them. "Either this circumstance or the refusal of the government of the town to carry into execution the stipulation in the second part of article 6, would justify the invasion. " But it must be observed that the treaty of Vienna is common to all the Powers of Europe ; and that the three protecting Powers of the city of Cracow, having found themselves under the necessity I will suppose of introdiicing an armed force into the town contrary to the stipulations of article 6, ought to have explained the cause of this act to the other Powers of Europe. " This is the amount of the error of which you can complain. However, I doubt of the expediency of encouraging the propensity of the government and of their majority in the House of Commons to go to war with Russia. * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.), ii. p. 427, note. 74 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. "J am convinced that the Kins; will not be in a serious scrape till he will be at war. " Believe me ever yours " Most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington." To the Diike. of Wellington. " Cheyenikg, May 24, 1836. My dear Duke, Among the notices before the House of Commons, I ■find the following for Tuesday week, May 31 : — " Mr. Thomas Buncombe. Address humbly to sub- mit to his Majesty the propriety of his Majesty using liis good offices with his ally the King of the French for the liberation of the Prince de Polignac, and Messrs. de Peyronnet, Chantelauze, and Guernon de Pi.anville." This is a strange motion. Perhaps your Grace will allow me to inquii-e whether you would think ic de- sirable that any observation should be made from our side on that occasion. ***** I have, &c., (Signed) Mahon. " London, May 25, 1836. " My deae Loed Mahon, " I consider that there is nothing so improper as for one government to interfere in the internal affairs of 'Others. Such interference is peculiarly improper when it relates to individuals ; above all, to the exercise of the prerogative of mercy by the sovereign to whom such interference might be addressed. " Then the interference of the House of Commons of one country by way of address to its own sovereign to THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 75 obtain his interference is of all other modes the most ^836. objectionable. It is a double usurpation ; first, on the part of a democratic body with the duty of its own sovereign ; secondly, of that sovereign with the duty and prerogatives of his neighbour. " In my opinion the interference of the Conservative party in this question, excepting to prevent the House of Commons from agreeing to the proposed vote, would be highly impolitic and objectionable. First, we ought always to be for non-interference ; that is the real policy of the British Government. Secondly, we ought to avoid to give ground for the belief that we have any- thing to say to the Carlist party in France; that we any of us had ever anything to do with Polignac or his follies ; or that we could be inclined by partiality towards him to do anything so impolitic and improper as to interfere with the exercise of the prerogative of mercy by King Louis Philippe. " Believe me, my dear Lord Mahon, " Yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington." LONDON. I met the Duke on horseback; he told me that he June 27. was going to drop a card on Sebastiani as a compliment after the attempt on the life of Louis Philippe, and he suggested to me to come and do the same. As we rode 00 on, he entered upon the subject of assassinations. He said that the spirit of religious fanaticism which had produced them 200 years ago — instancing the Duke of Buckingham and Henri Quatre — had ceased, and that every one who now attempted an assassination was 76 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. either a madman or desirous to escape after the act,' which was not the case formerly, and that this greatly diminished the opportunities and the danger. " When I was at Paris I received information that I was to be assassinated ; and I felt convinced, for the reason I have mentioned, that it would not be when abroad, but at or near my house, as it happened." What information had your Grace ? Anonymous- letters ? " It was Lord Kinnaird. As to anonymous letters, I had some ; but my rule is never to attend to them unless when they contain positive facts. But Lord Kinnaird wrote, refusing, however, to name the person suspected. As soon as the thing happened, I said : Take up Lord Kinnaird directly, and get us a clue. " When Lord Kinnaird returned to London, Lady Holland called him Oliver Kinnaird ! " " I judged from the first that it must be a military man, from the position he took with respect to my sentries who were stationed inside, not outside my gate. He was what was called a Chasseur de Brice — Brice being a sort of French guerilla who acted between the Austrian and Prussian armies and plundered. "The man was perfectly well known at Paris, and l^apoleon left him a legacy. He did not leave Paris till the day but one after the act ; and what is very singular is that he came near the house again, and saw me pointing out the very place next day to Lord Fitzroy Somerset." How did you find that out ? " Through a woman he lived with. The man had formed this determination to kill me a long time ; he had followed me to Cambray (I think he said), but found no good opportunity." THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 77 LONDON. Visit to Apsley House. Conversation on the Greek isse. Loan Bill. The Duke then spoke of the sixth volume ^^S- 2. of Despatches now published. I remarked on the Prencli having subsisted so much longer at Santarem than had been thought possible. " It could hardly be called subsisting — we could not have subsisted in that . country — it could only have been done by that system of utter disregard for human life which prevailed in the Trench army. I remember a Portuguese settled at Santarem writing to me in these words : I had a cat, and Heaven forgive me if I do them injustice, but I do believe the miscreants have eat him ! And he added a postscript ; I find that they have eat him ! ***** " Lord Liverpool and the Government had not at that time full confidence in me, although I never had failed them. I never promised them more than I performed." LONDON.— DINNER AT MB. ROGERS'. The Duke spoke of cyphers, and told us that Count Aug. 10. Bourck, Minister of Denmark at the court of Joseph, had a curious way of telling the real news even without cypher. He always began his despatch with the real truth as to the defeats of the French, adding, " but this is what the extreme party on the other side report ; " and he then went on to relate as if it were fact what- ever intelligence was sanctioned by the Court. He said that in his army they had never failed to make out every cypher where there was a cypher for the letters, and had often succeeded even where there was a cypher for the words. Had your Grace anybody with the army on purpose ? 78 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. "No, I tried — eveiy one at head-quarters tried — and between us we made it out." Did not Badajoz* surrender to the French through the cowardice of General Imaz ? " It was even more than cowardice. Imaz had stipulated tliat his garrison should march out by the breach, and he himself made a breach for that purpose ! " In the autumn of this year we were again upon the Kentish coast. DEAL. Sept, 8. Dined at Walmer. At dinner "the Duke spoke of ages. "It is curious to see what very young people call old. I remember the young Cavendishes being at a private tutor's near Strathfieldsaye. They used to come and dine with me, and I remember asking how their brother, now Lord Burlington, was getting on in his reading for the Wranglership at Cambridge. Oli ! said the brother, very well ; but there is an old gentleman — Mr. Mahon or Mahoney, I think — a dangerous rival. On inquiry I found that this 'old gentleman' was a little more than twenty." After dinner the Duke and I spoke for nearly an hour and a half on Southey's History and the character of the Spaniards. I fear that I cannot accurately report what was said by the Duke. DEAL. Sept. 16. Dined at "Walmer. * * « * « " After the battle of Vittoria the Cortes were very reluctant to remove from Cadiz to Madrid. However, ♦ Napier's ' Pcnhisular War,' iii. p. 108. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 79 one way or anotlier we made them. They knew they 1836. had the town of Cadiz quite with them, and were not so sure of Madrid. " Madrid was then a very good town, very loyal ; but it is very curious that almost as soon as the Cortes came there they got it to be as factious and revolu- tionary as they could desire. Yet without a Court and without the grandees Madrid would be nothing at all. It would be a dismal village in the worst climate of the world. N"o place is both so hot and so cold. The wind from the snow mountains is such that your true Spaniard is never without a leather waistcoat. It is a small town, hardly larger it looks than Canterbury, with which I have often compared it. Yet the amount of population is very different." Yet, Sir, the grandees seem to think no other place on earth worth living in. "Yes, that is just their feeling.* I remember the old Duchess of Ossuna — you know her, Maria Pepa — spoke to me of the dreadful injustice and oppression which the Queen had practised on her husband. It- was, she said, the cruellest thing in the world. On inquiry I found it was nothing more than the Duke had been appointed ambassador at Paris, and obliged to live there I Literally that was the entire grievance ! " The reason why the Queen had a spite against the Duchess was, gu'elle lui avail souffle un amant, I believe. The fact is — I am sorry to say it of my colleagues — that the grandees are just like my servants or your servants. They are very good-natured, good-humoured people, but they have no idea beyond the Court. It is really most extraordinary how exactly they have both the good and the bad qualities of menials. They » See pp. 56 and 188. So NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. think the little Court distinctions the summit of happi- ^^^ ness. When I went to see the King after the war at Madrid, I was presented to liim as a grandee. The Duke de San Carlos said to me beforehand : You are to be received with the greatest distinction. I said, Very well. Afterwards he said : Were you not delighted ? Did you observe, that as you came in, the Guards stamped with their feet ; and are you aware that they only do so to people of the very highest rank ? You must be quite happy ! " ***** It was at this period that the Duke had the kindness to draw up for me a character of Marlborough, which I reprint below.* My letter to him upon the subject bore date Sept. 17, 1836, and the Duke replied the next day. When', in tlie autumn of 1 836, 1 was writing the second volume of my ' History of England,' I had some thoughts of inserting a passage as follows, relative to the Duke of Marlborough : — " The time is not come for comparing together the conquerors of Blenheim and of Waterloo. A parallel between the living and the dead can never be quite fairly drawn. This only I will say, that no man can entertain a higher respect and admiration for Marl- borough than the only Englishman who could possibly be accounted his superior. " I once heard the Duke of Wellington asked whether he thought Napoleon or Marlborough the greater General. 'It is diiiioult to answer that,' he replied. ' I used always to say that the presence of Napoleon at a battle was equal to a reinforcement of 40,000 men. But I can conceive nothing greater than Marlborough at the head of an English army. He had greater difficulties than I had with his allies; the Dutch were worse to manage than the Spaniards or the Portuguese. But, on the other hand, I think I had most difficulties at home. He was aU in all with the ' Iiord Stanhope's ' Miscellanies ' (Ist series), p. 97. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 8l administration ; hut I supported the Government much more than 1836. they supported me.' " '•"•^ On Sept. 17, 1836, 1 sent this passage in MS. to the Dulie, telling him that I would insert it only if that insertion met with his entire approbation. "But if not," I added, "have the goodness to strike your pen through the page, and there shall he an end of it." In reply, the Dulte drew up and sent me the enclosed Memo- randum. I accordingly omitted the passage in question from my History. S. Memorandum by the Duke of Wellington. Sept. 18, 1836. It is very true that Thave often said that I considered Napoleon's presence in the field to be equal to 40,000 men in the balance. This is a very loose way of talking; hut the idea is a very different one from that of his presence at a battle being equal to a reinforcement of 40,000 men. I'll explain my meaning. 1. Napoleon was a grand homme de guerre, possibly the greatest that ever appeared at the head of a French army. 2. He was the Sovereign of the country as well as the Military Chief of the army. That country was constituted upon a military basis. All its institutions were framed for the purpose of forming and maintaining its armies with a view to conquest. All the ofBces and rewards of the State were reserved in the first instance exclu- sively for the army. An officer, even a private soldier, of the army might look to the sovereignty of a kingdom as the reward for his services. It is obvious that the presence of the Sovereign ■v\'ith an army so constituted must greatly excite their exertions. 3. It was quite certain that all the resources of the French State, civil, politica], financial, as well as military, were turned towards the seat of the operations which Napoleon himself should direct. 4. Every Sovereign in command of an army enjoys advantages against him who exercises only a delegated power, and who acts under orders and responsibilities. But Napoleon enjoyed more advantages of this description than any other Sovereign that ever appeared. His presence, as stated by me more than once, was likely not only to give to the French army all the advantages above detailed, but to put an end to all the jealousies of the French Marshals and their counter-action of each other, whether founded upon bad principles and passions, or their fair differences of opinion. The French army thus had a unity of action. G 82 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. These four considerations induced me to say generally that his '"^'^ presence ought to be considered as 40,000 men in the scale. But the idea is obviously very loose, as must be seen by a moment's reflection. If the two armies opposed to each other were 40,000 men on each side, his presence could not be equal to a reinforcement of 40,000 men on the side of the French army, nor even if they were 60,000 men on each side, or possibly even 80,000 men on each side. It is clear, however, that wherever he went he carried with him an obvious advantage. I don't think that I ought to be quoted as calling that advantage as equal to a reinforcement of 40,000 men under all possible circumstances. I quite agree that the Duke of Marlborough is the greatest man that ever appeared at the head of a British army. He had greater difficulties to contend with in respect to his operations and the command of his troops in the field than I had. I had no Dutch Deputies to control my movements or intentions, whether to fight or otherwise. But, on the other hand, I had armies to co-operate with me, upon whose operations I could not reckon, owing to the defective state of their discipline and their equipments, and their deficiencies of all kinds. 1 could not rely upon ten thousand of them doing what five hundred ought to do, or upon their doing anything, much less upon their doing what ten thousand ought to do. The Duke of Marlborough did not labour under this inconvenience. Then the Duke of Marlborough carried on his operations in countries fully peopled in proportion to their extent. He never experienced any inconveniences from the want of supplies of provisions. It was impossible to move at all in the Peninsula' without previously concerted arrangements for the supply of the troops with provisions, means of transport, &c. The Duke of Marlborough's difSoulties were greater than mine in relation to his own operations ; mine were greater than his in every other respect. But this is not all. The Duke of Marlborough generally, if not always, commanded an army superior to his enemy m the field. The army commanded by me was always inferior, not only in reference to the description of troops, but even in numbers, to the enemy. But that which I particularly object to is the last paragraph. I have always, in public as well as in private, declared my obhgations to thp Government for the encouragement and THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 83 support whicli they gave me, and the confidence with which they 1836., treated nae. '"'^ I was not the Government, as the Duke of Marlborough was ; nor were all the resources of this nation at my command to carry on the war which I was conducting, as the resources of Great Britain, in the time of Queen Anne — miUtary, naval, political, and financial — were at the command of the Duke of Marlborough. The nation at that time were heart-in-hand, bent upon carrying on that war. Prance was not then so powerful as she was from 1808 to 1814 ; England was not threatened with invasion ; it was not necessary to protect Sicily by an army of 20,000 men of the best troops. The United States had not been formed, and it was not necessary to defend our vital interests on the Continent of America against their attack. The resources of the country then, instead of being exclusively devoted to carry on the war which I conducted, were unavoidably devoted to other objects. Besides all this, there was a formidable opposition to the Government in Parliament, which opposed itself particularly to the operations of the war in the Peninsula. It would not be fair to compare the conduct of the Government of the Regency in relation to the war which I conducted with the conduct of the Government in the reign of Queen Aime. I cannot and never have complained of them ; and I should not like to say that I " supported the Government more than they supported me." In one sense it is true. It is quite certain that my opinion alone was the cause of the continuance of the war in the Peninsula. My letters show that I encouraged, nay forced, the Government to persevere in it. The successes of the operations of the army supported them in power. But it is not true that they did not, in every way in their power, as individuals, as Ministers, and as a Government, support me. Wellington. DEAL. At "Walmer Castle again to dinner. Sept. 22. " The royal establishment in France used to be much greater than ours. I will undertake to say that for every horse George IV. had in his stables Louis XVIII. had a hundred." G 2 84 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAL. 1836. Dined at "Walmer, and met Lord Lyndhurst, Mr. Sept. 27. MacArthur of Deal, &c. Talking of the road to Paris with Lord Lyndhurst, I mentioned that Agincourt was not much out of the way. The Duke observed: "In 1815 Colonel Woodford bought the right of digging there. He got to the very place where Froissart says that the French knights were all buried ; and he found stirrup-irons and spurs and other such things. After he had worked a fortnight or three weeks, the Duke de Eichelieu came to me and said : ' You have no idea what a noise this is making. I must beg you to put a stop to it ' ; — and so I gave Woodford a hint to dig no more." ***** This led to Waterloo. Lady Georgiana de Eos mentioned his being at Brussels the next day after the battle. Yes, I rode off there at four in the morning. It was necessary to make new arrangements ; so many officers were killed. We had to fill up the staff. Meanwhile the troops were marching." Was your Grace up at four the day after the battle ? " Yes, even earlier — between three and four they came to tell me that poor Gordon was dying, and I went immediately to see him ; but he was already dead." And at what o'clock did you dismount on the evening of the battle ? " About eleven I think." * * * * * " There is no better way of defending a coast than by martello towers. They require no expense to keep them up when once built." Dr. MacArthur mentioned that the name Martello THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 85 was derived from Cape Martello in Corsica, which he 1836. had seen, and which was once defended against us by a tower of the kind with a siagle gun. " The best account of the war in La Vendee is by- Monsieur Alphonse de Beauchamp. The real truth about that war is this. They always fought very bravely, and they were very successful so long as they had only raw troops to oppose them; but when Mayence was taken by the Allies and the garrison turned loose upon La Vendee, then they were crushed almost immediately." w ■*■ ^fi' ijf -Jjf- Dined at Walmer Castle. Oct. 19. ***** " I never knew a better King than the King of the Netherlands. From four o'clock in the morning he was hard at work, and I never mentioned any subject to him connected with his dominions on which I did not find him most fully informed. He has been accused of not employing Belgians enough ; but, as he has told me twenty times, the truth is that Belgium had been in a state of revolution ever since 1789, and that there was not one man left in it whom he could employ. He gave them all the places of his Court ; but, except a prefect or two of Napoleon, they were fit for no other. ^F vP *if ■*!& ^ " The number of clerks in the French offices is surprising. When I was at Paris, I was told that there were 4000 clerks in the War Office, and that there had been two or three times as many under Napoleon. That department with them comprises several of ours. With us the Secretary at War has 60 clerks. In the Ordnance 40 ; and at the Horse Guards perhaps 50. These 150 do the work of the French 4000, and yet the 86 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. French clerks begin to write at 6 in the morning and ours go down at 10 or 11." DEAL. Oct. 10. Met the Duke witli the harriers. In talldng of a late ascent in balloons, he said that he thought the only use of them was as signals in war : for instance, if it were wanted that one division should make an attack when another has reached a particular point behind a wood, then a red or blue balloon going up would show the right moment. In sieges also a man might some- times be sent up to inspect the works, but then the balloon must be held fast by a string, just like a kite. I quoted to him' Napoleon's comparison about bal- loons and boats to government as given by Sismondi,* but he did not seem to like it ; he said it was what " Napoleon himself would have called un phrase, and nothing else. There is no exactness in the comparison." * * * ^^ * " I made a computation of all the men I lost in Spain — killed, prisoners, deserters, everything — it amounted to 36,000 in six years. It would have been infinitely greater, but for attention to regular subsistence. The French armies were made to take their chance and to live as they could, and their loss of men was immense. It is very singular that in relating Napoleon's cam- paigns this has never been clearly shown in anything like its full extent." DEAL. Oct, 16. Dined at "Walmer. Nothing particular passed. Oct. 17. Met the Duke out with the harriers. He told me that old Lady Salisbury used to take out his niece Charlotte * This seems to stand for B. Constant, who relates the conversation in hia ' Cent Jours.' THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 87 (Lady Ebury) ; and once, when they ■were both dressed 1836. in white, slie said to her, " Now we look like two brides ! " 7^ T^ ^ lK ^ "In the civil war of Portugal of 1827, and the battles of Villaflor, it is astonisliing how little loss there was on either side. There were pitched battles with scarcely a man killed or wounded ! I had a letter in wliich was given the remark of a surgeon who attended the army, that he was sure that in six months he had drawn more blood with his lancet than had been shed by the troox^s in the whole campaign ! And I believe it was true." *■ -If * iS" iR' Great heartiness being shown by the other gentlemen on horseback to welcome the Duke, he observed to me : " JSTothing the people of this country like so much as to see their great men take part in their amusements. The aristocracy will commit a great error if ever they fail to mix freely with their neighbours." At this time the Duke most kindly and most unexpectedly presented to my mother (then residing in a house of her own at Walmer Beach, between the two castles) one of his iield telescopes. Here is his letter conveying it. " Walmek Castle, Oct. 18, 183G. "Mt deae Lady Stanhope, " You were talking of a glass, and I send you one of my field-glasses which used to be excellent. The fog is so thick that I cannot try to see you by the aid of it ; but I dare say it will show you all our doings here on the rampart. " You wiU think that I wish you to see everything through my eyes. " Believe me ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington." 88 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. Our great pleasure at this gift was still further enhanced when, in conversation with the Duke, it appeared that this was the very glass which he had used at Waterloo. He had presented to us at the same time the leather case and strap with which he wore it slung across his shoulder. We have affixed to the much-valued relic a brass plate with the following inscription :■ — This telescope and case, used by Arthur, Duke of Wellington, on several occasions during his campaigns and at Waterloo, was presented by him to Countess Stanhope, October 18, 1836. At a later period the Duke presented to me another of his field-glasses which he had used in his Peninsular campaigns. This second glass — after I had on my mother's decease inherited the former — I had the honour of offering in remembrance of the great Duke to a member of our Eoyal Family. DEAL. Oct. 20. Met the Duke with the hounds, and hunted a fox. He told me that once in France the wife of his aide-de-camp Harvey, now Lady Carmarthen, went out with them, and seeing the hounds and the fox dodge in and out of a wood, she exclaimed : " Harvey, pray in fox-hunting do the hounds follow the fox or the fox follow the hounds ? " BEAL. Oct. 27. Dined at Walmer. The conversation turned as to how testimonies vary, and how difficult it is to get at a real fact. The Duke gave some instances of it. " Thus there is one event noted in the world — the battle of Waterloo — and you will not find any two people to agree as to the exact hour when it commenced." THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 89 Met the Duke with the hounds. We talked of 1836. Gurwood's seventh volume, now in progress. How came the Trench garrison at Almeida to escape ? * "That was by the fault of our Colonel Bevan — who afterwards shot himself, when he found what he had done. I don't think it appears in the Despatches. I had stationed him at sis miles (or leagues) from Barha del Fuerco, and when I heard that the garrison were thinking of escaping, I sent orders to Colonel Bevan to march to Barba del Puerco and occupy the bridge. He received my orders about four or five o'clock in the afternoon, and the people about him said. Oh ! you had better not march till daybreak. By Sevan's fault the French got to Barba del Puerco, found nobody — and crossed the river, and then the thing was over. I had some intimation of General Brenier's purpose — to blow up the place and retire, and I sent him word that if he did, he and every man we could catch should have no quarter. It is contrary to the laws of nations; and troops so conducting themselves are not entitled to be considered prisoners of war." It was, then, very brave of General Brenier to venture ? " "Why, if it had come to the point, I dare say I should not have done it. But Brenier had another motive. I had seen him before : I had taken him prisoner at Vimiera. Before he was exchanged he came to me in London, told me he was in difficulty, and I lent him 500Z. " I dare say he thought if I had taken him prisoner I should have made him pay me. I have never seen him since. I heard no -more of the money. ***** " It was this blowing up of Almeida and my waiting * ' The Croker PaperB,' i. p. 351. 90 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1836. to see if it would be repaired, that made me too late for Albuera.* Had I been there, we should have made a great thing of it. Marshal Beresford had not as much as myself the habit of responsibility and chief com- mand, nor of course, in the same degree, the confidence of the troops. He therefore could not do so much. I remember he wrote me word that he was delighted I was coming, that he could not stand the slaughter about him and the vast responsibility. His letter was quite in a desponding tone. It was brought me next day, I think, by General Arbuthnot when I was at dinner at Elvas, and I said directly, this won't do, write me down a victory. The despatch was altered accordingly. Afterwards they grew very proud of the battle, and with full reason. There is no doubt they had com- pletely got the better of Soult. * tU i^ * -* " In my previous instructions I had given Beresford full liberty to fight the battle or not — as he thought best at the time. This was hazarding a great deal, and making myself responsible for the battle, however it turned out. But I saw that it was desirable for the service. " The Spaniards behaved Ul on most occasions ; but I think they never behaved so ill as in the defeat of the Giboca and the surrender of Badajoz. Had it not been for the last, I could have blockaded Almeida and Ciudad Eodrigo at once ; and when I had taken them carried the war to the south. * ^ * ^ ^ " The refractory members of the Portuguese Eegency, even the Principal Souza, were weak rather than ill-intentioned. None of them had any leaning to the * Napier's ' Peninsular War,' i. p. 165. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 91 French ; the only crime they would punish throughout 1836. the country was partiality to the French, and everything "^ else escaped with impunity. " The Patriarch was an old rogue. He and the Principal used to write me anonymous threatening letters, with the handwriting scarcely disguised. I was on the point of sending one back to the Patriarch — the writing was so nearly the same. But then we must not judge of that by our feelings here. It was not reckoned as dishonourable in Portugal. Their only object was popularity, and even in that they did not succeed. I am sure I could have had, if I wished it, the Principal stoned to death in the streets of Lisbon. ^ ^ "i^ "3^ "Sff "Monsieur de Forjas, I have always said, was the ablest man I had to do with in the Peninsula. In the Brazils the state of things was not rightly understood, because Forjas belonged to the Arouja party, or as it once was the French party, opposed to the party of the Souzas. But the Arouja party was no longer French. The invasion of Junot had united all parties against the common enemy. » * * # * " Bu sublime aio ridicule il n'y a qu'un pas ! was a frequent saying of Napoleon. He used it after the Eussian campaign. So Abbe de Pradt tells us. After Waterloo, Ouvrard says that he came up with him at a little fortress — it was Avesnes, I think — and found him walking up and down the room. Sire, said Ouvrard, vcnos devriez avoir eu quarante mille liommes de plus. Napoleon answered, J'ai cruf rapper un grand coup mais je me suis trompe. Du sublime au ridicule il n'y a qu'un pas!"* * Post, p. 150. 92 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH DJSAL. 1836. I met tJie Duke out hunting, and we afterwards Hov. 6. ^ dined at Walmer Castle. " The death of the Princess Charlotte was probably by no means a misfortune to the nation. I fear she would not have turned out well. " IsTever was there such a woman as that Princess of Wales. She once said to myself, On a dicMement peur cle la corde dans ce pays-ci ! — meaning that the men were not willing, for fear of being hanged! She referred, you know, to the law as to the consort of the Heir Apparent. "■^ y^ T^ vp -sfj " When the idea of the Queen's return to England first came to be considered in cabinet, my advice was to send Frederick Lamb — he was then a handsome young man — to her residence in Italy, and to talk to the Countess Oldi, to Bergami, and to all those people who were urging her to come over. He should have told them : You are going to lose your golden eggs — you are going to kill your goose ! Once in England, and you will not be able to live with her on your present footing and retain your present allowances. " At the coronation it was well considered in cabinet what to do in case the Queen attempted, as we heard she would, to come in. We did not think that we could properly exclude her ; it is an open ceremony ; at one part of it the Archbishop of York turns to the people present, saying : — This is George, Fourth of that name, undoubted heir of King George the Tliird ; wiU you have him for your king ? To exclude any one there- THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 93 fore seemed contrary to form and right. "We accordingly 1836. reserved a place for the Queen among the Peeresses ; and not knowing by what door she might come, we stationed a gentleman at every door, with orders to lead her to her place. The Queen did come, and she went to two or three doors, and received the same answer at each. This quite disconcerted her, and she retired. The mob too, as soon as they found she came to spoil the ceremony, began hissing and hooting. She had one of my tickets, to my great surprise. I had a box and twenty-five tickets to give away as High Constable. I have always suspected Lady Jersey to be the person who gave the Queen one of my tickets. It was the only way I could account for it." The Duke joined a dinner party at Deal Castle. Nov. 10. " The centre of Spain is incredibly bare of trees. It may almost be said they have no trees — no arboles, as they say in CastUe. In general they use only chopped straw to cook their food. When our troops were there, they were obliged in winter to pull down houses and barns, and burn the timber to warm themselves. The French always did so, but there was this difference ; we had the houses regularly valued and paid for; the French gave nothing, and often tore off doors and windows from the whole village." 8TBATEFIELD8A YE. We arrived on a visit to Strathfieldsaye, where we Dec. 13. stayed till the 18th of the month. There were also from the first my mother and sister, and Lord and Lady Salisbury, and subsequently Lord and Lady Wilton, Sir John and Lady Shelley, &c. 94 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH I83e. Talking of the Frencli reverse at Constantine, the Duke said one day : " I am convinced, from everything I hear, that their troops are not half what they were in my time. The reason is plain ; the army was then the only profession; it was the sole way to Napoleon's favour. They were most excellent troops ; I never on any occasion knew them behave otherwise than well. Their officers too were as good as possible. During the many years I was opposite to them, I never knew one engage in treacherous correspondence with us or sell us information. The only case that could at all come under that class was a commissary, who gave us in- formation, and was at last obliged to cut and run, and come and live at my headquarters." But d'Argenton, Sir ? " The case of d'Argenton at Oporto was quite different. It was a conspiracy, not with the enemy, but as against his own form of govern- ment. When he came to me, I told him that I should not alter my plans for his. I said : I shall attack you on such a day if I find you still at Oporto. * * * * * " Charles X. was a man of great strength and activity. The last time I was at Paris I walked ^vith him out shooting * without intermission from breakfast to dinner — a very hard day. When I came back and happened to mention it to George the Pourth, he turned round to Lady Conyngham and said : Yet he is six years older than I am ! The real difference was four." Sir John Shelley observed that he had once been partridge shooting in Norfolk with Charles X. as Comte d'Artois, and with the Prince de Conde. The latter at the first covey killed a double shot. Upon this the Comte d'Artois ran up to him in an ecstasy, * ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 282. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 95 threw his arms about his neck, and exclaimed, Ah, mon isse, clicr, comme autrefois ! The Prince on his part was so "^^ satisiied with his good fortune that he immediately went home again. The Prince de Conde being thus mentioned, the Duke mentioned that his Highness had come to him some time before the battle of Waterloo and asked, Monsieur le Marechal, quel commandemcnt dois-je pi'endre, dans I'arinee ? LONDON. To the Buka of Wellington. "^^y ^■ Gkostenok Plaee, Mmj 8, 1837. Mt dear Duke, I beg leave to call your attention, as I shall also Sir Eobert Peel's, to the following notice, given last Friday in the House of Commons : — " Dr. Bowring — That an address be presented to his Majesty, praying that he will be graciously pleased to appoiat a diplomatic agent at the Court of Eome" (Thursday, June 1st). Might it not be desirable that your Grace and Sir Eobert should consider of this proposal before it comes on ? I own I have long been inclined to think that such a measure would be of great advantage. The King of England is in precisely the same position as the King of Prussia — a Protestant sovereign with several millions of Eoman CathoKc subjects — and the Court of Berlin has long employed and found great service in employing an accredited agent at Eome. Your Grace may remember the message through Sir Trederiok Lamb, in November 1834, apologising for MacHale's appointment to Tuam, on the ground that he was not known at the time to be such an un- 96 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. principled agitator as lie has proved, and you will, I tMnk conclude from this and other grounds that a resident English ambassador might obtain consider- able weight in preventing political and objectionable appointments in Ireland. There is also, as you are aware, a great deal of business of our travellers and merchants now transacted chiefly through Mr. Kestner, the Hanoverian Minister. There would be also great encouragement and benefit to the fine arts by the residence of an English ambassa- dor at Eome, as is strongly proved by the instance of a French one. However, I only throw out these brief suggestions for your Grace's consideration, and I have the honour to remain, My dear Duke, Your Grace's most faithful and obedient, (Signed) Mahon. " London, May 9, 1837. "My deae Lord Mahon, " I have received your note respecting Dr. Bowring's motion on the 1st June. " You propose to speak on the subject to Sir Eobert Peel, and of course you will act in concert with him. " I believe that those who communicate with the Pope on the part of the King of England are liable to the penalties of a frsemunire. The attainment of Dr. Bowring's object will require something more than an address from the House of Commons. " I think that any departure from the settlement at the period of the Pi,eformation which has not yet been touched would be unfortunate, and would make an unfavourable impression on the minds of the Protes- tants, particularly in Ireland and Scotland. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 97 " The Iving of England is not precisely in the same 1837. position as the King of Prussia ; whether in relation to the constitution of liis country ; to his Protestant and his Eoman Catholic subjects and the Eoman Catholic religion as religion ; to the Church of England ; to the form and substance of the Eeformation in England and the laws for carrying the same into execution ; compared with the same in Prussia. " Conveniences might attend the establishment of diplomatic relations with the Court of Eome. But these are trifling; and not to be considered as at all balancing the other important considerations involved in the question. " If we are to alter the laws for the establishment of the Eeformation for the sake of diplomatic convenience, let us see where we shall be led by a view to other conveniences and advantages. " Shall we form an establishment for Eoman Catholic education or Eoman Catholic worsliip ? " If we are, on what ground do we retain Oxford and Cambridge ? What becomes of our bishops and clergy in Eoman Catholic districts ? Are we to follow the King of Prussial's example in this respect ? " Believe me ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellixgton." Dined at Apsley House. The expedition of Don May 24. Sebastian from Biscay was just become known. " De- pend upon it," said the Duke, "it is not gone to Madrid. They will find it is not so easy to move fifteen or twenty thousand men that distance. They laight have done better to keep to their mountains, where artillery could never have been brought against them. Neither the French nor we had ever artillery H 98 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. off the liigh road in that country. We cracked them '^ out with our muskets." May 28. Another dinner at the Duke's ; Gurwood dined "with us, having been installed in Alava's old apartment two days before. He observed how strange it was that Napoleon would send orders from Paris for the move- ment of single divisions in Spain, without reference to the circumstances of the moment. The Duke remarked, " Nothing was too great or too small for his proboscis. * * * In his later days he would receive or admit no facts that were not agreeable to his preconceived ideas. Marmont assured me that at the close of the compaign of 1814, when forming their plans together, Napoleon said, Alors Marmont vicndra avec ses dix milk Jwmvies. Marmont interrupted him to say. Sire, jc n'cn ai que trois! The other nodded, and said, I know; but soon afterwards again set out with, Marmont avec ses dix millc hommcs. Again did Marmont declare that he had only three — again did Napoleon acquiesce; yet in a little while he once more began to point out and direct what Marmont was to do with his ten thousand men. This, I assure you, Marmont told me had happened literally in that manner. Napoleon would not recede from his first idea." May 31, We met the Duke at Lady Salisbury's, and I was next him after dinner. Lord F. Egerton asked him if he had yet seen Marmont's 'Travels,' by himself; and this led to some conversation on "the glorious days." " I had an account of it from Marmont himself.* He told me that nothing could be more inefficient than Prince Polignac. He could not even read a military * ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 234. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 99 return, but looked to the grand total only comprising 1837. the sick and the absent on leave. Instead of having 30,000 men about Paris, as Marmont said he might, he had only 7 or 8000." Was not the Due de Berri a cleverer man than the Duke of Angouleme ? " He was a very foolish fellow." WAL3IEIt. Dined at Walmer Castle. The Duke mentioned a Oct. 7. reply he had lately heard of Talleyrand's. Somebody was saying that M. de Chateaubriand liad grown deaf. JVon, said he, M. dc Chateaubriand n'est pas sourd ; il m'oit etre sourd parcc qzo'il n'cntend jplus 'parlcr dc lid. What a picture of a very vain man ! I told the Duke another reply lately ascribed to tlie old diplomate. Some equerry or chamberlain of the Duke of Orleans was vaunting to him some phrase of the Duke's as very clever, -whereas it was in truth -\-ery incdiocre. On reconnait facilemcnt a ccs p)<^'>'ohs, said Talleyrand, with a graceful bow, Vesprit ordinaire de M. le Due d' Orleans. The Duke said that when Talleyrand came over in 1830, he had inquired of him how the young Duke did, and that the other answered slily, // se parte fort Men — comme un Prinee a Veeole normale. Lady Mahon had brought the Duke from the Continent a figure in ivory of Napoleon leaning on the back of a chair. The Duke had it on liis chimney- piece, and took it up after dinner to show us. It seems, I said, to hold a telescope in its hand. " No," said the Duke, looking more closely, "it is only an opera-glass. We used to think that none of them made much use of glasses — they had none good. H 2 loo NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. Certain it is that they never made one of our officers prisoner without taking away his glass." Oct. 8. Met the Duke out liunting ; we talked politics. Mr. Pierrepont told me an anecdote which the Duke had mentioned to him about Bradshaw's canvassing at Canterbury. On asking a man for his vote : Sir, said the fellow, I would as soon vote for the devil. But, Sir, said Bradshaw, not at all disconcerted, if your friend should not stand, may I hope then for your support ? The death of my aunt Jane kept us secluded, and I did not see the Duke again for several days. Oct. 16. Monday. — Met the Duke out hunting. Our chief conversation turned on present politics. I therefore do not detail it. I then told him that in reading the fifth vol. of Lockhart's Life of Scott, I had observed the Duke mentioned as having sent to Sir Walter some original papers on a proposed duel between Charles V. and Francis I. " Yes," said the Duke, " they were taken, I believe, in the baggage of King Joseph at Vittoria. I have the originals, \^ith the signatm-es. I sent the copies to Sir Walter Scott for the family of Eobertson, Professor Eobertson, that they might if they pleased use them for a new edition of Ms Charles the Pifth." What did you think of Sir Walter Scott when you met him in society ? "I thought him a very agreeable man, full of anecdote. On several occasions though, when I met him, he was talked down by Croker and Bankes, who forgot that we might have them every day — but not Scott. * * * He was a little too fond of liis own preconceived notions : when he went to Paris, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. loi and was -writing his Life of ISTapoleon, several persons 1837. offered him facts of value ; but he said no — he had ^"^ already formed his notions and would not disturb them. * * * Before I knew that he was going to make a novel of it, I gave him a memoir- on the Eussian campaign, which I think he inserted bodily." I think. Sir, only the substance of it, and without, yom- Grace's name, " Yes, I did not allow him to use my name in it. I showed in that memoir the total want of sufficient supplies from the first. There was also want of care — in one night they lost 10,000 horses. Now this was from their having had green food, and long marches immediately afterwards. Now green food is at times very useful in a campaign — but then great care mrist be taken not to overwork them at those periods." * * * Could not Napoleon have maintained liimself at Moscow all the winter instead of retreating ? " Not at Moscow — but lie might at Smolensk, or rather Yitepsk. He might then have rallied the Poles into a kingdom and marched forward next spring, and then I think he would have succeeded." The plan I have seen suggested in Segur's history of the campaign, and ascribed I think to Count * * *, was to ^A-inter at Moscow and intrench himself, allowing his communication with France to be cut off ? " He couldn't have done that. You know that when he heard of Mallet's conspiracy at Paris, he said, this would not matter to me if I were a Bourbon, but as it is I must endeavour to return directly. In fact, if you look through his campaigns you will find that his plan was always to try to give a great battle, gain a great victory, patch up a peace, such a peace as might leave an opening for a future war, and then hurry back to 102 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. Paris. This I should say was the great benefit of what we did in Spain — of what we did and enabled the Spaniards to do. We star\cd him out. We showed him that we wouldn't let him fight a battle at first, except under disadvantages. If you do fight, we shall destroy you ; if you do not fight, we shall in time destroy you still." The conversation afterwards turned to Queen Hor- tense, whose death was just announced in the papers. I said that I had lately read some memoirs of hers, which stated that she had not intrigued at all for Napoleon before the return from Elba, and that Napoleon was even very angry with her at that time for taking the title of Duchesse de St. Leu from the Bourbons. "My dear Lord Mahon, you must never tliink it a proof that persons did not intrigue for Napoleon because he was angry with them : remember that Napoleon was not a personality, but a principle. That is what O'Connell is at this moment." The same day we dined at Walmer Castle. After dinner Talleyrand was again mentioned. "I should say," said the Duke, " that he was a man better that his reputation. I once had to defend him in the House of Lords from an attack of Lord Stewart (Londonderry), who called him the loily minister. When Talleyrand heard of my defence, I was told by Lord Alvanley, who was by, that he burst into tears and said, G'cst h seul homme qui a jamais (lit du hicn dc moi." I forgot to state that in one morning's ride, having mentioned his health to him, the Duke observed, " Till that man destroyed my ear I was never confined to bed for a day in my whole life since I had the measles as a chUd. I was never unable any one day to do whatever duty there happened to be before me." THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 103 But, Sir. were not you very ill at the time of the 1837. expedition to the Eed Sea ? " Yes, but I was not "^ confined to my bed. What I had then was the Malabar itch — a much worse kind of itch than ours — it would not yield to brimstone. I caught it on shipboard at Madras — in a man's bed that was given up to me. Dr. Scott, the same who invented nitric acid, cured me at last by baths of that nitric acid : they were so strong that the towels which dried me on coming out were quite burnt. " Through life I have avoided medicine as much as I could, but always eaten and drunk very little." Hardinge told me the other day that the Duke had told him of the following singularity of Louis XVIII. He used to pronounce the \vord Messieurs in a very peculiar and affected intonation, and his way of announcing to his Court that the Duchesse de Berri was with child was as follows : Mess i eurs ! Je vous (tiinonce que la Duclicsse de Berri est fenmie. In hunting, conversed with the Duke for nearly four Oct. 19. hours — cliiefly politics and the news of the day. He spoke once, however, of the " Insertions " of Colonel Gurwood for the eighth and ninth volumes of the Despatches, and entered especially upon the letters to Baron Constant and Lord "William Bentinck against stirring up revolutionary wars. " I should wish nothing better than to have those letters inscribed upon my tomb." He inveighed most strongly against the ini- quity of rousing a nation to rebellion merely for the advantage of another nation, and without telling them fairly what they are to expect on their own account. The Duke told me, as an illustration of Spanish character, that when he went to Madrid to see King 104 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. Ferdinand after the war, there was a new High Admiral appointed, and CastaSos then said in a speecli, " Tliis appointment will strike terror into the hearts of the Eubios." Why, Sir, are the English called Muhios 1 "All heretics are called so. It comes from Jndas Iscariot, who in pictures is always represented — it is a very curious thing — with red hair. But we had this additional claim to be called Euhios, that we wore red coats." Did the King appear to be acquainted with the particulars of the war ? " Xo, he knew nothing at aU about them." Did he ask your advice or ascertain your opinion on the state of parties in Spain ? "Not at all. But I had some conversation with his Minister, the Duke de San Carlos, and he took much the same view that I did — ■ that they were going on too fast." We afterwards mentioned St. Helena. The Duke said that it had a charming climate. He believed tlrat the complaints of Napoleon as to liis want of provisions or other ill-treatment were quite unfounded. " Lord Bathurst had explained this in the House of Lords again and again. But the truth is that when a man is dissatisfied with being confined and thinks you have no right to confine him, if even you were to build him a palace of gold he would say this won't do — I want to be sent to Versailles. "If, however, I had been Lord Bathurst, I would have adopted a different plan for his confinement.* There are only very few landing-places along the coast of St. Helena. These I would have strictly guarded, and insisted upon his showing himself to an English * Fast, p. 326. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 105 officer every night and morning, and then for the rest 183'''' of the time I would have let him do or go wherever he pleased. This M'oidd have avoided most matters of dispute, and then he might have received or sent as many letters as he chose." Vfho was it, Sir, that first suggested St. Helena as the place of confinement ? " I don't know who it was. It Avas first suggested, I rather think, about the time when Elba was fixed 'upon. It was said. Don't give liim Elba — he will be in Italy directly." Is it true, Sir, that at the Congress of Aix-la- Chapelle, Austria remonstrated on our treatment of Xapoleon as severe ? " Xothing of the Idnd happened. * * * Without being any great admirer of Sir Hudson Lowe, I must say that I think he has been shamefully used about this business — shamefully." "\Ye dined with the Duke. Talking of the expedition Oct. 20. to Constantine, he said that he thought the French colony in Africa could not succeed — not being founded on principles of justice, but unsettling the rights of property of native individuals. He mentioned how Marshal Clausel, having despoiled a village and hearing that there were complaints of it, immediately indicted them for defamation, as if they could compete with him in the law of defamation or anything else ! Joined the harriers with the Duke. "We talked on Oct. 21. politics. I mentioned a letter I had had that morning from HaUam. Among other observations in it, Hallam notices that since the passing of the Eeform Bill there has been little or nothing of conversion in the House of Commons. The Duke said that this was most true, and one of his main objections to the Eeform Bill. io6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. " Formerly there were from one to two hundred gentle- men free to vote according to altered emergencies. N"ow, on the contrary, everybody is pledged down by his previous promise, and the result is that at any time after the general election public opinion can have no influence upon the House of Commons." Hardinge remarked in the course of conversation how impossible it was in these times to buy the papers — to either party. " Yes," said the Duke, " and if you could buy papers, you would next have to buy readers." Oct. 23. Sunday. — Another dinner at Walnier Castle like that of Friday last to meet the Verulams. After dinner the Duke conversed at some length on the inefficiency and failures of the Spanish armies in his time ; he gave several instances. " At San Marcial, in front of Iran, I had placed the Spanish troops in a position known all over that country for its strength, and I put a body of our own troops on each side of them. Yet even in that position they could not stand. When I rode up to them in the morning, I found them all running away. Hollo, I said, what can be the reason of this ? The men didn't know what to answer. Some of them said, There is one of our officers wounded, and we must run and take care of him ; and certainly they still continued to run. However, I had mth me two or three orderly dragoons, and I sent one of them on to Irun, to which they were running, with orders to the governor to shut the gates. The dragoon got there first, and the gates were shut. In that way I stopped them, and by degrees got them back to their position ; and meanwhile the inherent strength of the position had kept the French off. The same evening late, as I was sitting on a rock watching what was going on among the enemy THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 107 opposite, a fellow came up to me — one of tlieir officers ^837. • — and said he was desired by their General to tell me 'twas impossible they could hold out any longer, and requesting I would send my troops to assist them. I looked through my glass, and I observed that the Prench were already in movement to retreat. I pointed this out to my friend. Why, he said, they do seem to be going. Well, then, I said, had not- you better keep your position a little longer and gain the honour of the day rather than give up the post to our troops ? They did as I advised, and now I see in their reports that they claimed this as one of their greatest victories ! " But then. Sir, said Lord Verulam, the Spanish troops can have been of no use at all ? "Why, by puttiag them in third lines and fourth lines we made them something, or at least made the French think them something. " The men are all very fine fellows ; * but the officers have no knowledge or discipline — no lo se is their answer on every occasion." The Duke has now staying with him two little children of Lord and Lady Eobert Grosvenor, who are gone abroad, and his conduct to these chicks displays a kindheartedness and warmth of feeling such as their own parents could not surpass, but such as the Duke displays to all. Lady Mahon was told by Lady Mary Grimston who was staying in the house, that the children having expressed their desire to receive letters by the post, the Duke every morning writes a little letter to each of them, containing good advice for the day, which is regularly delivered to them when the post comes in. * Ante, pp. 9 and 22. io8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. It also appears that the Duke gratifies Bo, as they call little Eobert, by playing almost every morning with him at football on the ramparts. We saw him playing with them with cushions in the drawing-room before dinner. Oct. 26. I passed some time with the Duke to-day — a trois reprises — with the hounds in the morning, at luncheon with a large party to meet the Princess Augusta of Saxony, and in the evening to a dinner with the Hardinges, &c. This dinner had at first been intended to meet the Princess, but she changed her mind and would not stay. After dinner the conversation turned on the recent taking of Constantine by the Prench. I said something about the badness of Eastern troops. The Duke ascribed it rather to the previous negotia- tion. * * * " The truth is, when you tell Eastern troops or Spanish troops — for they are just of the same cha^ racter — that- you are going to treat, you had much better treat, for they will never fight afterwards." This led to a discussion on Bourmont and his con- quest of Algiers. I afterwards asked the Duke whether when Bourmont came over to him before Waterloo he had brought him any valuable information ? " No ; besides, he didn't go over to us, but to the Prussians. He went to them at or after their action at Ligny. The one who came over to us was Monsieur de Nadaillac, who married Mr. Mitchell's daughter." It is a curious thing, said Hardinge, that those who. have written about Waterloo in poetry or prose, don't seem to be aware that the Duke * came over before the battle to Quatre Bras and examined the Prussian- position. I saw you, Sir, in the distance as horsemen, .* 'The Crolter Papers,' iii. p. 173. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 109 and I thought you must be English by the cut tails. 1837. You had, I think, several of your staff ^vith you. "^ " Only William Gordon," interrupted the Duke. Aye, but several orderlies, said Hardinge. When I saw the horses' cut tails I galloped towards you, trusting, if ever you should prove French, to the quick- ness of my horse to bear me off. When you had ■examined the Prussian position, I remember you, much ■disapproved of it, and said to' me, if they fight here they will be damnably mauled. " I told them so myself, but of course in different terms. I said to them, everybody knows their own army best ; but if I were to fight with mine here, I should ■expect to be beat." Turning to me, and marking the back of one hand with the fingers of the other, he added : — " They were ■dotted in this way — all their bodies along the slope of a hill, so that no cannon-ball missed its effect upon them ; they had also undertaken to defend two villages that were too far off, only within reach of cannon-shot. jSTow here is a general rule. Never attempt to defend a village that is not within reach of musketry. It was just that way the French lost the battle of Blenheim. They sent troops into places beyond the reach of mus- ketry, and then couldn't get them back again. " At Ligny, however, it was a most extraordinary circumstance that the French didn't maintain the position they had won. The first thing I did on the 17th was to send William Gordon with two squadrons (I think he said) of cavalry, with orders to make his way through all obstacles, and let me know what was become of the Prussians. He was to communicate with General Ziethen, who commanded the rear guard. Well, he came back to me early on the 17th, having no NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. found tlie French gone ofif the field of battle and not in possession of Sombreffe." Yes, said Hardinge, Bliicher himself had gone back as far as "\Yavre. I passed that night with my ampu- tated arm lying with some straw in his ante-room, Gneisenau and other generals constantly passing to and fro. Next morning Bliicher sent for me in, calling me Lieber Preund, &c., and embracing me. I perceived he smelt most strongly of gin and of rhi^barb. He said tO' me, Icli stinJcc cticas, that he had been obliged to take medicine, having been twice rode over by the cavalry, but that he should be quite satisfied if in conjunction with the Duke of "Wellington he was able now to defeat his old enemy. I was told that there had been a great discussion that night in his rooms, and that Bliicher and Grolmann carried the day for remaining in communication with the English army, but that G-neisenau had great doubts as to whether they ought, not to fall back to Liege and secure their own commu- nication with Luxembourg. They thought that if the English should be defeated, they themselves would be utterly destroj'ed. On the movements of the 17th the Duke afterwards said : — " My account of them agrees with Grouchy 's. He says that he waited all the morning, and could get no orders from Bonaparte till four o'clock. Xor did he show any signs of hfe to us all that morning. In fact, at one moment I thought he must have gone off in some other direction." But what, Su', was Bonaparte about all that morn- ing ? " Grouchy does not say, and I do not know. WTien Gordon came back to me and I found that the Prussians had fallen back towards "Wavre, it was my business to retreat too, so as to remain in communi- THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. in cation with. them. Accordingly I set all our infantry 1837. in movement about ten o'clock. The Prench soon found out we were retreating. To be sure I endea- voured to conceal it as much as ever I could, making the men move at first under hedges and so on, and man- ceuvring in front of the enemy with my cavalry so as to draw off their attention. Still they ought to have seen us — we should in their place. When I afterwards retired with the cavalry, the French followed us ; but notliing came of it, except that just out of Genappe Lord Anglesea made a dash at some of them. He failed, and this brought on a little skirmishing rmtil we came to the position of Waterloo, and then the French, seeing we had taken up our position, retired for the night." "\\T:iere did ]S"aj)oleon pass the night after the battle ? " He stopped for a moment at Charleroi, then again mounted his horse and never stopped till he came to Avesnes." The Duke dined at my mother's. Apropos to some- Oct. 29. thing or other, he mentioned: "When I iirst went campaigning to Flanders, I remember there was an old Colonel Watson, of the Guards, who said to me. You little know what you are going to meet with. You ^vill often have no dinner at all ; I mean, he said, literally no dinners, and not merely roughing it on a beefsteak or a bottle of port wine." The Duke seemed much amiLsed at such rougJiing. Dined at Walmer Castle, and next day went out with Nov. I, the Duke stag-hunting. On this last occasion, upon Mr. Pitt's financial system he said he had never had any doubts as to the necessity and proprietj- of the Bank 112 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1837. restriction, but that lie thought cash payments miglit have been resumed in the ensuing year ; for he didn't ascribe the necessity of the restriction to the expenses of the war, but to the loyalty loan which had just taken place. Its effect was, said the Duke, to place in the liands of Government all the deposits in the country, including those at the Bank of England. " It was in fact a premature capitalisation of income." On the 3rd the Duke set out from Walmer. STEATHFIELDSAYK 1838. We were at Strathfieldsaye from 19th to 24th April, Apr. 19. ]^838. Being then much intent on other matters, I took no notes of any military or historical information. I had much talk with the Duke on the election jurisdic- tion of the House of Commons, and found that he was, like myself, decidedly for parting with it. He \\'ent so far as to say that to do so would go a great way to avert the dangers caused by the Ibeform Bill. I asked whether it was true that tlie Sebastianistas were still numerous in Portugal. The Duke said he had heard it observed with some exaggeration that the I'ortuguese were divided into only t^^•(J sections — the one expecting the return of Don Sebastian, the other sceptical in every point of faith. Once at Lisbon, while the army was there, some officers of the Engineers' department promised, by waj of jest, that one of them would walk over the Tagus from Belem. This excited great expectation and comparatively little doubt, and the Eegency took it up as a serious event. Gurwood told me that while I "was away from the drawing-room earlier that morning tlie Duke had repeated some curious information given him by THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 113 Marshal Wrede on the campaign of 1809. It appears 1838. that Wrede, then Commander-in-chief of the Bavarians, ''^ had asked Napoleon for his plan of the campaign. Mon plan de campagne ? replied the other, je n'en ai pas. Je n'en ai jamais eu. He always decided according to the circumstances of the moment.* " It was always his object," added the Duke, " to iight a great battle ; my object, on the contrary, was in general to avoid to fight a great battle." Eogers was here, and very entertaining. He told me that Lord John Eussell had visited the monastery of San Yuste in Estremadura — the retreat of Charles V. I know of no other Englishman who has ever seen it. He repeated to us a striking answer of an old monk at the Escurial found on his knees before some portraits of his saints. You seem to admire that picture. Sir! I have prayed before these pictures for forty years. I have seen the brotherhood of my order again and again renewed and pass away, and sometimes I think when I look on these unchanging faces before me, that they are the realities, and that we are the shadows ! Croker too came for two nights — arriving luckily for our harmony on the same day Eogers set off. The con- versation turning on the yeomanry, he told us that once a body of volunteers in London had sent an offer to Mr. Pitt to enlist and embody themselves, but clogging their offer with many difficulties and exceptions. At length they came to a clause that they should never be required to leave the kingdom. Mr. Pitt took up his pen and added in the margin, " except in the case of actual invasion." I think I never remember a better or a bitterer jest. On this day — the one before that on which the party * ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 123. I 114 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS' WITH 1838. broke up — the Duke showed us all over the bedrooms. '^^ One of them (it was ours) is called the Austrian room, from the portraits of that nation hung round it ; there is also a Eussian room, &c. ; the dressing-rooms likewise have their names. A question arose where a portrait of the Duke should be placed. The right place, cried Croker very readily, would be the French dressing-room. I remember another pun of Eogers'. Where is the Duke this morning — not at breakfast ? Gone out early to direct the thinning of some plantations. Ay, to act the part of Sir Mark Wood ! Croker gave me an interesting account of his receiv- ing the news of the battle of Waterloo — I believe from the naval officers in the Channel — and his communica- tion to the Duchess of Angouleme. It was in the middle of the night, and Her Eoyal Highness was residing at a house near Fulham. With some difficulty he obtained admittance, had her awakened, and saw her come down to liim in her nightcap and robe de chambre. With a profound bow he began to announce the gain of a great battle in Flanders where — Stop ! she cried, stop ! and to his great astonishment immediately left the room. But in a few moments she returned, bringing a map. Now, she said, show me where was the allied army before the battle ? — Here, madam. And where after the battle ? — Here. Then, on hearing the account, she sunk on her knees and remained a few minutes in silent prayer. On rising, she turned to Croker, and thanked him for the trouble he had taken, expressing also her joy at the event, but added that from her experience of military news, she never trusted the account of any success unless she found that the army said to have gained it was in a more forward position after than before the engagement. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 115 The day after I \iT:ote this (May 15) I happened to ' 1838. dine at Lansdowne House, before our great division, and meeting Eogers, I asked liim to whom the reply about the pictures at the Escurial was made ? He told me to "VVilkie. It must then have been when Wilkie, "Washington Irving, and I visited the place together in 1827 ; but Wilkie, who is rather reserved and shy about his personal adventures, did not mention the story to us. Lord Lansdowne told me that he was sitting next Lord Byron in the House of Lords when Lord Byron made one of his speeches. There was a marked degree, he said, of courtesy, attention, and encouragement to the distinguished poet. Nevertheless, as soon as Lord Byron sat down he turned round to Lord Lansdowne and said. Did you observe, my Lord, the fixed determination of the House to stop me and put me down? Not having taken notes at Strathfieldsaye, it is only by fits and snatches that I can now resume my recollections. One evening I had a discussion with the Dulie on the increase of population in England. I said that in my opinion we were over-peopled, and quoted an expression Lord Ashburton had used to me upon that subject, " We are squeezing one another to death." The Duke declared himself of a directly opposite opinion. " There is no man," said he, " whose judgment I value more than Lord Ashburton's whenever deliberately given, but sometimes on the spur of the moment he speaks very loosely." As to the population, he referred to the extent of the machinery by steam, &c., which according to a calculation he had seen, amounted in the whole kingdom to not less than 10,000,000 horse- power. That may make perhaps 60,000,000 man- I 2 ii6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. power. And then we complain of having no sufficient employment for our twenty millions of people ! This argument is very ingenious, but it does not appear to me conclusive. In September 1838 I received from the Duke a letter of very cordial congratulation on the birth of my eldest son, and granting my request that he would be one of the godfathers. In October we went to pass a fortnight at my mother's house onWalmer Beach. WALMER. Oct. 23. We dined at "Walmer Castle, meeting only Lord Strangford and his daughter, Sir F. Chantrey, and Captain Watts. I gave the Duke an account of the . new roads near Treves and Luxembourg. " This is more important than it seems," said he, " as opening new passes into Germany. Depend upon it that ' the cheap defence of nations ' is an unimproved country." He told us that in Portugal the only road at all deserving of the name was from Lisbon to Pombal. From Lisbon to Elvas it was most detestable, often only the dry bed of a rivulet. What, then, do they do, I asked, when the rivulets are full ? " Stay at home, I believe," said the Duke, laughing. " But I have been obliged more than once to give orders at the villages that the large stones and fragments might be picked out of the rivulets, so that the troops might march on these roads." The conversation turned upon the story in the, newspapers of Lord Brougham being burnt in effigy at Quebec, which amused the Duke very much. " One of the last times," he said, "that I have been burnt in effigy or attempted to be so was at Glasgow, but the, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 117 figure designed for me was captured by a body of old 1838. pensioners, wbo put down tbe disturbance, and who for safe custody lodged the figure in the guardhouse for that night. Their officer, one Mr. Tidy, wrote to the Diike of Gordon, then in London, an account of it, and added that he believed it was the first time the Duke of Wellington had passed a night in the guardhouse." I had a long chat with Sir F. Chantrey. He told me Oct. 24. that, contrary to the common idea, the Italian models are far inferior in beauty of form to the English. They want fulness especially. When he first went to Flo- rence, Lady Dillon apprised him of this with peculiar delicacy and decorum of expression. " You will find," she said, " that Italian women can sit much closer to a wall than English." Out with the harriers. The Duke and I spoke of Oct. 25. Mr. Pitt, lamenting his early death. " I did not think," said the Duke, " that he would have died so soon. He died in January 1806, and I met him at Lord Camden's in Kent, and I did not think that he seemed ill, in the November previous. He was extremely lively and in good spirits. It is true that he was by way of being an invalid at that time ; a great deal was always said about his taking his rides, for he used then to ride 18 or 20 miles every day, and great pains were taken to send forward his luncheon, bottled porter, I think, and getting him a beefsteak or mutton-chop ready at some place fixed beforehand. That place was always mentioned to the party, so that those kept at home in the morning might join the ride there if they pleased. On coming home from these rides, they used to put on dry clothes and to hold a Cabinet, for aU the party were members of the Cabinet, except me and I think the Duke of ii8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH I838i Montrose. At dinner, Mr. Pitt drank little wine : but it -n-as at that time the fashion to sup, and he then took a great deal of port wine and water. ' " In the same month I also met Mr. Pitt at the Lord Mayor's dinner ; he did not seem ill. On that occasion I ,remember he returned thanks in one of the best and neatest speeches I ever heard in my life. It was in very few words. The Lord Mayor had proposed his health as one who had been the Saviour of England and would be the Saviour of the rest of Europe. Mr. Pitt then got up, disclaimed the compliment as applied to himself, and added, England has saved herself by her exertions, and the rest of Europe will be saved by her example. That was all — he was scarcely up two minutes — yet nothing could be more perfect. " I remember another curious thing at that dinner. Erskine was there. Now Mr. Pitt had always over Erskine a great ascendency — the ascendency of terror. Sometimes in the House of Commons he could keep Erskine in check - by merely putting out his hand or taking a note. At this dinner, Erskine's health having been drunk and Erskine rising to return thanks, Pitt held up his finger and said to him across the table : Erskine ! remember that they are drinking your health as a distinguished colonel of volunteers. Erskine, who had intended, as we heard, to go off upon rights of juries, State prosecution, and other political points, was quite put out — he was awed like a schoolboy at school, and in his speech kept strictly witliin the limits en- joined." 'fr 7P 'It v(& ^ Our conversation turned to the year 1815. I asked whether General Gneisenau had not been an excellent tactician ? " Not exactly a tactician, but he was very THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 119 deep in strategy. By strategy, I mean a previous plan 1838. of the campaign ; by tactics, the movements on the field of battle. In tactics Gneisenau was not so much skdled. But Bliicher "was just the reverse — he knew nothing of plans of campaign, but well understood a field of battle." Did not the Prussians behave "nith great indiscipline in France ? " Yes, they remembered always the former treatment of Prussia, and levied large contributions, and sometimes two or even three rations for each man. When I urged to Gneisenau the importance of hus- banding our supplies and not exasperating the people, he answered. On n'a pas pense a cda en Friisse ; and when I spoke to him against the double and triple rations, he said, C'est tres ton pour notre estomac. But upon the whole we got on very well together, and I generally prevailed upon Bliicher to do what I wished. " About blowing up the bridge of Jena,* there were two parties in the Prussian army, Gneisenau and MiifEling against, but Bliicher violently for it. In spite of all I could do, he did make the attempt, even while I believe my sentinel was standing at one end of the ■bridge. But the Prussians had no experience in blowing up bridges. We, who had blown up so many in Spain, could have done it in five minutes. The Prussians made a hole in one of the pUlars, but their powder blew out instead of up, and I believe hurt some of their own people. " Poor Bliicher went mad f for some time. He had shown off before some of our ladies at Paris, and got a fall from his horse and a blow on his head. This gave him all sorts of strange fancies. When I went to take leave of him, he positively told me that he was pregnant! * Ante, p. 16, and ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part I.), i. p. 41. t Fost, p. 176. 120 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. And what do you think he said he was pregnant of ? — An elephant! And who do you think he said had produced it ? — A French soldier ! That is the human mind. " It was the last time I ever saw him. I went to him ; he could hardly speak Trench, but he said (striking his side), Je, sens un elephant Id ! " And what could you say to him ? "I could only say, Je vous assure que vous vous meprenez ! and that he would soon get better. But he continued to express his surprise at there being a Frenchman in the case. Tmaginez que moi — moi — 7noi ! un soldat Frangais ! I suppose he had dreamt it the night before. " He was a very fine fellow, and whenever there was any question of fighting, always ready and eager — if anything too eager." * * » « * We dined the same evening at Walmer Castle, meeting Lord Maryborough, who had that very day hoisted his ilag at Deal Castle as my grandfather's successor, Su" F. Chantrey, Mr. Lucas, the painter. Sir James Urmston, Captain Fisher, and Captain Watts. The Duke expressed a strong opinion that from the natural difficulties of the country and of the people, the French would not be able to retain possession of Algiers. He told us that he heard that Lord Brougham at Dover sometimes mimics the recent proceedings of Lord Durham at Quebec— pretends to speak — then goes into a corner, suddenly draws out a handkerchief and seems to cry — -just as the great Lambton himself is reported to have done with his deputations. A worthy part for an ex-Governor-General to play, and for an ex-High-Chancellor to mimic ! THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 121 Saturday. — Eiding out this morning, I met General 1838. Alava on his way from Dover to Walmer Castle. I called on him in the afternoon, and the Duke asked us to dinner in the evening. We met Lord Strangford, Lord Maryborough, Captain "Watts, and Mr. Lucas. Alava "was to stay for only one night, being on his way from Paris to London as ambassador. He was very agreeable and amusing. He told me that the Prince of the Peace is now at Paris, and so reduced in fortune that Alava only a few days ago made him a present of a thousand francs. When the Infant Don Prancisco arrived at Paris, the Prince was obliged from poverty to drive to see him in an omnibus ; and yet the Infant is his own son, says Alava, and so like that anybody may see it is so. After dinner Lord Strangford alluded to Gurwood's tweKth volume, which is just coming out ; and this led the conversation to Waterloo. "Je me rappellerai toujours," said Alava, " comme j'arrivais de Bruxelles et je ne savais pas si depuis I'Espagne le Due serait toujours la tete de Meduse pour les Pranijais ; mais, quand je suis arrive le Due m'a dit tout de suite, Etiez vous chez Lady Charlotte Greville hier soir 1 — Alors j'ai vu qu'il etait tranquille et que tout allait bien. " II m'a dit aussi : lis seront diablement surpris, les Franqais, de voir comme je vais defendre une position." The Duke laughed at these recoUeotions, and assented to them. I observed to Alava that I believed he was the only man that had been present both at Trafalgar and Waterloo. The Duke suggested Malcolm, but he, it appeared, arrived the day after the battle of Trafalgar, and was at Ostend on the 18th of June. 122 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. The Duke said that the news of Waterloo* was first brought over by a Jew in the service of Eothschild. He embarked at Ostend, and nobody on board the vessel knew of it but he. The way he got at it was this. He was at Ghent, looking in with a crowd at the window, when a messenger arrived to the King of France, and he saw that the King, after reading the letter, embraced the messenger, and " kissed him all round the room and all about the house." Upon this the Jew felt sure that the news was a victory, and without an instant's delay set off upon his journey to England. At Ostend he saw Malcolm, but told him nothing, nor did he to any one until he reached Eothschild's house in the City. He afterwards went to Lord Liverpool. Lord Maryborough added that before they sailed from Ostend they saw a dragoon run down to the beach, take off his cap and wave it in the air. The other people on board all wondered what it could mean, and none guessed ; but the Jew had still the composure to keep his secret. Lord Maryborough also told us that at first there was a rumour in London of a great defeat. Sir Eobert Wilson was reading at White's a letter he had had, saying that Napoleon was at Brussels. " Yes," said the Duke, " but when the truth first came out of our having won. Lord Sefton went^to Lady Jersey and said to her. Horrible news! they have gained a great victory ! " * * * The conversation turned to Talleyrand. I said, I thought the very cleverest thing I had ever heard of Talleyrand (because the truest) was his character of * Fast, p. 172, which corrects and elucidates the story. ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 59. , ; THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 123 Monsieur and Madame de Flahaut, —Elk, vieux intri- 1838. guant, lui vieille coquette. The Duke laughed very much at this character, which he had never heard before. Alava told us that, admirable as Talleyrand was in such little hons mots, he was quite incapable of writing any long despatch or even letter. And this the Duke * confirmed. Monsieur de la Besnardiere, Alava said, used regularly at the Congress of Vienna and elsewhere to write out the letters for Talleyrand to copy as his own, and at other times Talleyrand wrote like a child under his dictation. This was an understood thing. " Une fois, en passant a Tours, Madame de Dino me disait, IST'est-elle pas belle la lettre de mon oncle ? et je lui ai dit, Madame, nous sommes comme les Augurs Eomains, qui ne pouvaient pas se regarder sans rire ; nous savons bien que toutes ces lettres sont de la Besnardiere." Alava added that in his opinion the distant and silent manner which Talleyrand used to affect in general society was founded only on a consciousness of his ignorance and a precaution to conceal it. C'esi une vieille fenime clu temps de Louis Quinze, was the character given him by one of his friends. ***** Chateaubriand then came upon the tapis. The Duke said that at Verona the chief affairs were in the hands not of Chateaubriand but of Mathieu Montmorency. Scarcely ever did the Duke ride out for a gallop but he used to meet Chateaubriand walking at some distance from Verona — walking in front and some gentlemen of his suite behind ; and these walks must have taken up the best portion of his time. Of Lord Brougham, Alava said, " Je vous assure que * Post, p. 153. 124 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH , 1838. j'ai vu de sa propre main dans une lettre qu'il a ecrite a Paris cet ete, J'ai abattu le gibier mais le Due de Wellington n'a jamais voulu le ramasser." The Duke told me that he had asked Lord Brougham to dinner on Tuesday, and hoped we would come and meet him. Pray, did he ever dine with your Grace before at any time ? " No, never." ***** The marriage of Don Carlos and the Princess of Beira being mentioned, Lord Strangford avowed himself a devoted Carlist. Alava bore it with great good humour and judgment, saying only he supposed he would have some wedding cake sent him. Oct. 29. Monday. — I met the Duke out hunting, and we dined with him in the evening. We spoke of the improvident manner in which the Legislature had passed the Eailway Bills without any guard against their monopoly and mismanagement. The Duke said that he had amended no less than twenty-five of such Bills in one Session — inserting a clause that they should be bound by what- ever measure the Government might introduce within one year. But the Government shrunk from that duty, and introduced no measure at all. Oct. 30. Tuesday. — We went with the Duke and the Wiltons (they arrived yesterday at the Castle) to Dover, and called on Lady Verulam and Lady Pitzroy Somerset. The Duke spoke of his house at Paris. " I had in my room prints of Grassini, the Pope, and the Princess Borghese, which I hung up, with the Pope in the middle. When Monsieur came to see me, he held up both his hands and exclaimed, Absolument comme notre Seigneur entre deux larrons ! " THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 125 In the evening there came to dinner Lord Brougham 1838. bringing in his coach Sir William FoUett, Lord Fitzroy, and Miss Somerset from Dover, while Walmer supplied us with Lord and Lady Wilton, Lord Strangford, and Captain Watts ; there were also Lord Maryborough and Mr. Lucas. The conversation was agreeable, but of much less interest than I had (perhaps unreasonably) expected. I remember nothing worth putting down (and yet I sat between Brougham and FoUett), except that Brougham told us that he had asked Carnot to what peculiar talent Eobespierre owed his elevation. The answer was, H strait fort difficile de vous le dire. II avait la parole a la main. II mcnait icne vie tres simple comme iious lefaisions tous alors. Wednesday. — I had a walk and talk with Lord Oct. 31. Brougham before he returned to Dover; we called together on Lord Strangford, and sat there the best part, of the morning. To-day Lady Mahon and I dined again at the Castle, where we met a large party of Verulams from Dover. Talking before dinner, the Duke told me that once at the Court of Louis Dixhuit — when one man said he had been that morning at Versailles, another that he had been at St. Cloud, anc? so on — the King observed, Poii,r moi, j'ai fait le grand tour. Co7nment done le grand tour ? Oui fai fait le grand tour ee matin. He meant the great tour of the Council table, having gone to his seat at the head round one side of the table, and come away by the other. I observed that want of exercise never seemed to have affected his Majesty's appetite, if one might trust reports. The Duke confirmed this, and said that once, dining with him enfamille — as that Eoyal party always dined — with the Duchesses of Angouleme and of Berri 126 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. present — there was a disli of very early strawberries, ""^ which the King very deliberately turned into his own plate, even to the last spoonful, and ate up with a quantity of sugar and cream, without offering any to the ladies. That is exactly, I said, what Queen Anne relates William the Third to have done with a dish of early green peas, she being then Princess and at table with her sister Queen Mary. The Duke laughed. " Aye — I hope it is not a Eoyal custom." ■jff '3^ ■Jfc ■Stt "Jtf Of Lord Castlereagh's unhappy aberration * he said : " The King and I were the only two that found it out, and the King told Lord Liverpool, but he would not believe it. " I plainly saw that his mind was gone, and I said so to himself" How, Sir, could you manage to express that to him, and how did he take it ? " I told him, from what you have said, I am bound to warn you that you cannot be in your right mind. He was sitting or lying on a sofa, and he covered Iris face with his hands, and said, Since you say so, I fear it must be so." How long was this before his end ? " Three days, I think; he died on the 12th, and this was on the 9th, I think. I was going abroad to my yearly tour of inspection of fortresses, and I offered liim, if he liked, to give up my journey and stay with him; but he said, No, that would make people suspect there was some- thing the matter." It was, I suppose, after this interview that the Duke * Post, p. 272. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 127 "^ATote to Dr. Bankliead, Lord Castlereagli's physician, 1838. warning him to be on his guard — which letter I re- member reading in the proceedings consequent on Lord Castlereagh's unhappy fate. # * * # * After dinner the conversation turned to Prince Charles, the Young Pretender, and the Duke related the following anecdote. When the old Duke of Brunswick came to Paris he -was considered to bear a very strong likeness in person to the Pretender, and several friends at his table were one day telKng him of it. Mais, said Marmontel, s'il vous avail ressemUe encore davantage il n'aurait pas ete le Fretendant. A very well-turned compliment. Thursday. — Again we had the gratification of dining Nov. l, with the Duke. I observed to him that Napoleon, in his Memoirs of 1815, tells us that he seriously delibe- rated on the very night of his arrival at Paris whether he had not better coUect what troops he could muster and seize upon Belgium immediately before the arrival of the allied armies. " He could not have done so effectually," said the Duke. "He arrived at Paris on the 20th of March, and I had travelled from Vienna so rapidly that I reached Brussels on the 5th of April. Xapoleon could not have got together an army till later than that, and he would have found me with forty or fifty thousand men, and the Prussians with about as many ; we should have beat him as we did after- wards. * * * " My first step at Brussels was to write to Gneisenau, who commanded the Prussians, and who had his head- quarters at Aix, urging him to move nearer, and they took the position wliich I recommended." 128 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. Friday. — The Duke went early to Dover, where he stayed the whole day, attending the Harbour Sessions, and afterwards dining witli the Commissioners. We went over in the afternoon with Lord and Lady Wilton to see the sluices opened, and we met the Duke upon the pier. Lord Wilton told me that the Duke had observed to him that morning at breakfast that he never knew any man with more natural eloq[uence in conversation than the late Duke of Kent, always choosing the best topics for each particular person, and expressing them in the happiest language. No7. 3. Saturday. — Out hunting with the Duke, when he had an alarming fall, but most happily without hurt; in the evening we dined with him, meeting Lord and Lady Wilton and some neighbours. The Duke told us that about twenty-five years ao;o, a person, named Tucker, I believe, having asked and received permission to dedicate a book to him, that book was found to contain a most vii-ulent libel against the Duke of York. The dedication then became a great annoyance to the friends of both, and the Duke formed a resolution, which he has followed ever since that time, of not allowing any work to be dedicated to him unless he has previously read it. I remember, however, that in 1832 the Duke was so good as to make an exception to his rule, in favour of my ' War of the Succession.' The conversation turned to Mrs. Gierke. A most impudent woman in her answers, said the Duke. When Beresford — John Claudius Beresford — asked her to describe a man whom she had involved in her accusations, of the name of , she looked him full in the face, and said with great deliberation: He was a tall — sq^uinting — ugly — dirty Irishman. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 129 Croker had lately come from Ireland, and like many 1838. persons from that country, used to pronounce person, "'^ parson. On his asking her. Who was that parson ? she answered, It was no parson at all. Here is the account of the Duke's accident, as I cut it out a few days afterwards from the local paper. " Accident to the Duke of Wellington. — Sunday morning an accident happened to the Duke of Wellington which might have been attended with serious consequences. His Grace was hunting between Walmer and Upper Deal; whilst crossing a bank his horse's feet slipped, and coming down on its haunches threw the Duke off, who fell on his back upon the ground. Lord Mahon, fearing the horse might roll upon his Grace, instantly darted forward and succeeded in getting him up, we are happy to state without having sustained any injury. His Grace, after shaking the dirt from his cloak, remounted and continued the hunt as if nothing had happened." — Kentish Gazette. The error of fixing the accident on Sunday instead of Saturday led to some discussion in the London Glole and Standard. Monday. — Some conversation on politics with the Nov. 5. Duke out hunting. Lord Durham's scheme of a federa- tive union for the British dominions in North America the Duke most strongly condemns as the act of a headstrong, unthinking man — as if executed preparing the way for a separation from the mother-country, and as most unwelcome to the smaller provinces. " Observe," he said, " that a federative union is always unpopular in the weaker country. Was it not so in Scotland ? Is it not so in Ireland ? " He told me that Sheridan, in one of his speeches I30 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. (luring ]Mr. Addington's administration, had very happily applied against Mr. Pitt's half opposition the lines : " I do not love thee, Dr. Fell ; The reason why I cannot tell, But I don't love thee. Dr. Fell." At that time to bring in the word " Doctor " was enough to convulse the House with laughter. Nov. 6. We dined at the Castle ; five Verulams had come from Dover for two nights. Inter alia, the Duke spoke of Princesse de Talleyrand — a most silly woman apparently. Once when Denon was to dine with her, Talleyrand had previously told her, Parlez-lui un pen de ses voyages. C'est un grand voyageur ; but she mistook him for Eobinson Crusoe, and began asking him about ce pauvrc Vendredi que vous aimiez tant. This Princess applied to the Duke in 1815 to me- diate a reconciliation between her and the Prince. Nov. 7. We dined again at the Castle, and met the Verulams. The Duke told us that he had landed at Deal on his return from India, and had come back to it some months afterwards to take the command of the troops brought from Ireland by Lord Hill, and intended for a secret expedition to the mouth of the Weser. Three times they attempted to sail, but were driven back again and again by storms, losing each time two or three hundred men by wrecks on the Goodwin Sands, &c. The Duke on his return from India — "when," he said, " I understood as much of military matters as I have ever done since or do now " — thought our military system very faulty ; orders were sent to him from four or five different departments— everybody pretended to give orders. Once at Deal a General officer (he did THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 131 not name liim) desired him (Sir Arthur) to wait upon 1838 him, and gave him some direction, to which Sir Arthur replied : " The order shall be attended to, but I rather believe you will find that I am your senior officer instead of your being mine." And so it proved. ***** I spoke to the Duke about the project of obtaining from Spain her gallery of pictures, in satisfaction of our claim for arms, &c., in case we could get no money. The Duke most strongly condemned it as an unworthy advantage to be taken from weakness and helplessness. " The French would do such a thing, but we would not. What is worth having in comparison with our character ? Let us try to keep our character whatever happens." » * » * » . After leaving Walmer, some correspondence ensued, as follows. To the JDuke of Wellington. Geosvenok Place, Dec. 6, 1838. {Extract.) The question how the foreign prisoners in Canada are to be dealt with (for Lord Fitzroy Somerset tells me that we have already taken one French officer, and there is no doubt that several of the American volunteers will also fall into our hands), is a point of no small importance and perplexity. It is certain that according to the law of nations the heaviest punishment is justifiable. But who shall venture to pronounce that under all the present circumstances it would be politic! " Stkathiteldsate, Dec. 7, 1838. "My dear Lord Mahon, " It is quite clear that civil war wOl be perpetual if K 2 132 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. nobody is punished for carrying it on. Wliat riglit have we to endeavour to prevail upon British subjects to emigrate to Canada, if we do not mean to protect their lives and property, and to execute the laws that have that in view ? What right to claim allegiance and obedience to the legislature established by authority of a British Act of Parliament, if we do not allow the sentence of the law to be carried into execution in cases of rebellion, so afflicting as these rebellions are to all the interests of society and even of humanity ? " Then if we ought to carry the law into execution in respect to natives, we are still more bound to take that course in respect to foreigners; who, besides all that can be urged against the act of rebellion by natives, are in addition guilty of insolence to the laws and authority of a foreign government. " We must protect our English subjects against these attacks, either by the weapon of the municipal law of the State, or by making war upon the foreign govern- ment whose subjects attack our territory and our subjects. " This is the common sense of the case. Everything else is nonsense. " Lord Durham boasts that he put down the rebellion Avithout bloodshed. First, he did nothing. Second, it is obvious that he did not put down the rebellion ; it is in all respects worse than ever at this moment. If he is to take credit for not spilling blood, who is to be charged with the blood of our subjects and our troops shed on the Eichelieu and at Prescott ? This is just so^ much vertige. " Believe me ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington.'" THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, t^^ OAKLET PARK, SUFFOLK. I wrote to the Duke of Wellington, enclosing a letter 1838. from Sir Walter Eiddell, whicli requested me, on his ^*°' ^^' own part and on Lord Marsham's, to lay before Ms Grace the Prospectus of a College of Agriculture for the " sons of farmers and yeomen " in Kent. " Steathfieldsaye, Dec. 13, 1838. "My deak Lord Mahox, " I am the Duke of WelKngton and an officer of the army. But there is not an affair of any kind in which I am not required to be a party. And each of these cases is attended by consequences. I am now required to be a party to the establishment of a college in Kent to teach agriculture. " If there is one thing in the world of which I know jjositively nothing, it is agriculture; then I observe that I have not an acre of property in Kent; and I know, that as a matter of course, I shall be called upon to establish similar institutions in Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Somersetshire, Berkshire, Hants, and Surrey. " What can I answer, my dear Lord ? The theory of agriculture is one thing; the practical application of the theory in what is called farming wholly different. Treat the theory as you please, you cannot make the good farmer in the Isle of Thanet, or in the neighbour- hood of Deal and Walmer, a good farmer even in the Weald of Kent. The practice of farming in both must depend upon experience, teach as you may. " This scheme reminds me of a lady at Paris who had an opera dancer to teach her daughter how to walk in a garden! "But we are told that many wish it. To be ^ sure 134 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1838. they do. There is to be an association of the rich, or the supposed to be rich, dinners, speeches, &c. Then, if the affair should proceed further, there will be a building or buildings ; and of course engineers or architects, and there will be professors and teachers of the arts of agriculture and practical farming. "Who is there that does not wish for such an establishment, who is looking for employment for himself, or his family, or his friends 1 I cannot subscribe in such an affair. " Eemember me Mndly to Lady M., and " Believe me " Ever yours most sincerely, " Wellington." LONDON. 1839. Called on the Duke at Apsley House. Political ^^ ^"^ conversation. He then adverted to the letters of Backhouse and Urquhart published in the newspapers,* and asked me my opinion of them, after which he gave me the private history of the " Portfolio," It appears that the Emperor Alexander, being anxious to con- ciliate his brother Constantine and to keep him in good humour, used to send him copies of the most con- fidential despatches. These, on the taking of Warsaw, fell into the hands of the Poles. They were afterwards offered for sale to Prince Lieven at a moderate rate, but he declined to take them because the other party would not guarantee that no copies had been made from them. And yet, said the Duke, if he could have got * Published July 1838. See ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.), i. 117-120. Urquhart had been Secretary of Embassy at Coustanti- nople. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 135 these papers in the hand of the clerk of St. Petersburg, 1839. it would not have mattered to him whether anything " was published afterwards, as no proof would remain of its authenticity. But on his refusing them, they were offered to and purchased by Mr. Urquhart at St. Petersburg. " But the most rascally part of the affair," said the Duke, " is that they actually falsified the first paper published (a Eussian despatch detailing a con- versation with the Duke). The real despatch I have been shown ; I have a copy and I could show it you there (pointing to a bureau), and it is tolerably accurate. I remember the conversation perfectly ; but in the copy published they garbled and altered it for their party object, and to make me look like a driveller. And such a thing to be done through and with the Foreign Office!"* The Duke dined with my father on Sunday the 17thy Feb. and we met Inm there. I also called on him several times at Apsley House, and had political conversations with him, of which I did not think it right to take any memorandum. Nor have I taken any relative to his attack on the 22nd, and the announcement of Douro's marriage. I heard his speech in the House of Lords on Lord Mar. 4. Ebrington's appointment. He looked, alas ! very pale and worn, his voice loud at some intervals but very low and indistinct at others, and the loudness or emphasis not according to the points he wished to urge. Called on him at Apsley House. I thought him Mar. 7. looking pale and much shaken, and the fire of his eye * See ' The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), i. p. H7-120 and pp. 158, especially Bote at foot of p. 1] S. 136 • NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH" 1839. greatly dimmed, and I could scarcely repress my con- cern as I spoke to him, but he said that he was quite well. I consulted him as to calling for some papers on a recent foreign event. "We afterwards spoke of Mexico, and I asked him whether it was true, as I heard, that he had urged Lord Strangford to postpone his notice from Thursday. " Not at all. If it was to come on at all, there was no good reason for postponing it. They never consult me before they give their notices ; but when they find themselves in a difficulty, then they say, for God's sake say something for us and help us through ! Mine is a hard duty. I am indeed servus serwrum." Mar. 9. Saturday. — I saw the Duke for a few minutes in the morning at Apsley House, where I was calling on Arbuthnot. In the evening we met him at dinner at Sebastiani's, and he took us afterwards in his carriage to the Opera, and from thence to a party in Cambridge House. He looked very well and in high spirits ; indeed, he did even more that evening than I have mentioned, for he left us at the Opera to attend the Speaker's levee, and then returned to us again. I spoke to him for a little while on the alarming news from India. He closed that subject by saying with a smile, " If the Duke of Wellington were twenty or thirty years younger, he ought to be on horseback and on the field with Runjeet Sing, instead of being called in to arrange the affairs of the maids of honour and the Palace." Mar. 15. Friday. — Macaulay, Hallam, Gurwood, and Eogers came to breakfast with me. India being mentioned : I think, said Eogers, that the most remarkable contrast THE DUKE OF ^YELLINGTON. 137 that history affords is between the Duke of Wellington 1839. and Lord Wellesley, — the one scorning all displaj^, the other living for nothing else. Yes, said Macaiilay, no two brothers, to be both eminent men, were ever so nnlike. * * » * * I met the Duke at Lady Peel's party ; he looked April 10. very well indeed. Talking to Lady Shelley on his son's marriage, I heard him observe on his new part of v.n hcaupere, and add with a laugh, the French expres- sion, Ze leaupere la n'est pas leau. But I am sure that any one who was then gazing as I was on that noble countenance, so full of generous fire, yet so impressed with deliberate thought — on which as on a chronicle seemed written the great deeds of so many victories and imperishable years — would have said the very reverse. Douro's marriage. April 18 The Duke did us the honour to attend in person as April 24. godfather at the christening of our son. The ceremony took place at one o'clock at St. George's Church, and we afterwards proceeded to a dejeunei- at my father's. The Duke seemed in remarkable health and spirits. A note from me, sent at half-past seven this morning, May 7. apprised the Duke of the division last night about the Jamaica Bill.* Calling about 12 at Apsley House, I saw him — ^jiist returned, he told me, from the Military Commission, which he found adjourned, as the official * 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), i. p. 196, note 2. Lord John KnEsell's Grant had a majority of five only on the question of sus- pending the Constitution of Jamaica, 138 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839- members could not come, and were attending a cabinet. To my great astonishment he expressed a very decided opinion that the Ministers were not goiag to resign — and ought not. I told him that last night, when the numbers were announced amidst the loud cheers of the Conservative body, I had seen old Byng of Middlesex, who was sitting on the Treasury bench, take off his hat and wave it, as if triumphantly, several times round his head. This surprised me, as he had just been voting with the Ministers ; and happening to meet him after- wards in the cloak room, I asked him for his reason. He replied loudly, and looking roxmd so as to be heard by several more — I did it to show how glad I am that we have shaken off the Eadicals — we have done with the Eadicals — or words to that effect. I observed that if this feeling really prevailed to any extent among the respectable Whigs, it might perhaps account for Lord John Eussell's almost imaccountable publication. The Duke said he did not think so. He spoke very slightingly of Lord John's essay. In the evening, after the resignations were announced) I saw the Duke at the Opera, where he had given us his box. He said that Sir Eobert Peel had been with liim in the afternoon, and had agreed with him that upon the whole the Ministers would not go out, although two or three things which had occurred in the House of Commons looked very like it, but that then a person had come in and told them that the cabinet was over and had resolved on resignation. Then, I said, at length we have a fact. He related to us several circumstances of the last crisis in which he was engaged in November 1834. So THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 139 much more does official labour depend on debating 1833. than on reading and writing, but though he combined for several weeks the business of tlie Treasury and of the three Secretaries of State, yet he left no arrears ^ (and yet he had found some) in any department. But then the Houses were not sitting ! And besides (we might add) then it was the Duke of "Wellington ! His perfect coolness and composure at any crisis (I remember especially May 1832, the most awful political crisis we have seen in England since the Eevolution) are truly admirable. No other statesman I know approaches him in that quality. I used to think that Lord Althorp from sluggishness was led to nearly the same point as the Duke from genius and experience. But an anecdote I have heard to-day has altered that idea. It was told by Lord Stanley to Gladstone and by Gladstone to me. It seems that, in spite of the perfectly placid and uuruflled manner which Lord Althorp always displayed, he was in truth most terribly harassed and . depressed by the anxieties of the House of Commons, and has several times complained to Lord Stanley, adding this strong expression : It is .only fortunate that I don't find a brace of loaded pistols by my side when I wake in the morning. Fiiday. — The day of marvels ! I met the Duke May 10.- and Lord Aberdeen in the morning in Piccadilly on their way from Sir Eobert's, and in the afternoon the Duke again, and I walked with him to Lady F. Benttnck's in Charles Street. There he foimd a note from Sir H. Holmes. He gave me an account of what had passed. In the evening we were at a great ball at the Palace. Some curious remarks. I was amused at Alava's : Je I40 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. croyais que c'etait sculenient en Espagne que ces sortes de choses ai'rivaicnt. May 11, We dined at the Duke's, meeting the Wiltons, Burghershes and Ingestres, Lords Salisbury and Fitzroy Somerset, Holmes and Bonham. Much political con- versation. I mentioned a story I heard that Joseph Hume had been pressed by his constituents at Kilkenny to take the Chiltern Hundreds, but had answered that he had made it a fixed rule on no account to accept any sinecure office. The story is quite true, said Holmes. I met Hume to-day and asked him, when he admitted it. Soon after ten the Duke got up and took his leave, saying he was obliged to go away. He left us all dying — of curiosity. I ascertained next day where he had gone and what had passed. May 13. Mo7idciy. — I met the Duke at the Queen's concert, and gave Mm an account of Sir Eobert's speech, &c. Political conversation. He went away very early ^rithout entering the inner room where her Majesty sat. May 14. Tuesday.— 1 heard Lord Melbourne's and the Duke of Wellington's speeches in the House of Lords. Lord Melbourne spoke ably, and made the best of his bad case ; but the little jests with which he interspersed his remarks seemed to me to accord very ill with the importance of the occasion, and with the grave not to say mournful feeling of his hearers. One of these jests was not caught by the reporters — where he said that he was very callous to the accusations of tenacity of office, of ambition, or of avarice — "fqr, my Lords," with a THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 141 smile and a chuckle, " I don't altogether deny the truth 1839. of any one of them." '^^ The Duke's speech is accurately given in to-day's papers, and reads extremely -well. But it was dis- tressing to hear, from the delivery. His words came out very slowly, and as it were drop by drop, and he seemed to have lost the modulation of his voice, wliich sometimes rose almost to a scream — sometimes sank almost to a whisper, and this without reference to the greater or lesser energy of the sentiments he was expressing. He also seemed to stand unsteadily, and to sway his body sideways, unlike his usual manner. May Heaven in its mercy protect and prolong that invaluable life ! " Di tibi dent vitam, de te nam cietera sumes." In the evening I met him at the Duchess of Gloucester's ball. He explained to me — as indeed I knew before — that the secret influence to which he had alluded in his speech as having formerly crossed him in his career was that of the Diike of Cumberland with George lY. Lady Cowper, as I heard, came up to him at this ball and apologised for her son's Hertford address, saying he was a foolish boy, had acted from the advice of his agent, &c. The Duke treated the address very lightly, saying that as to all attacks upon him he was rather a hardened sinner. Met the Duke at dinner at Cambridge House. May 15. Afterwards we all went to the Ancient Music. Thursday. — Called at Apsley House. I'olitical con- May 16 versation. The Duke, adverting to cabals at Court, 142 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. asked CTre^^.lle to bring Mm, and he read over -nith me a copy of Ids letter to George IV., of January 30, 1830, relative to the Duke of Cumberland. He told me that the King had never seen the Duke of Cumberland afterwards. May 17. Ball at Apsley House to the Grand Duke, &c. An immense crowd. Lord Xormanby, E. Elhce, and most other leading ministerialists were there. I met Eogers, who, adverting to the lathes of the Household, made a joke, which he ascribed to Lord Strangford, but which I believe was his own : " One has often heard of a country going to the dogs — but never before of a country going to the bitches ! " I told him that there was a French saying, lis m savcnt a quel saint se voucr, and that only substituting the word diable for saint, I thought it ^-ery accurately descriljed the present state of the I\Iinisters and their negotiations with the Eadicals. May 18. I cut the following from a country newspaper : — " It has been remarked of the Duke of "Wellington, that he never recriminates. Whatever may have been the provocation offered or the blunders he has witnessed, the question is always with him : ' What is best to be done for the country? How can the government be carried on ? '" Strikingly just on all occasions, and last not least in the recent explanations. When the Duke spoke on Tuesday, he had in his pocket W. Cowper's address, which I had transmitted to him that morning, and which might have afforded materials for some severe taunts against Lord Jlelbourne. But he disdained to U3e it. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 143 Sunday. — The Duke dined with us in Grosvenor 1839. Place. The party I had to meet him consisted of Lady ™^ Frederick Bentinck, Mdlle. d'Este, my sister, Lord Clare, Lord Alford, and Mr. Rogers. I spoke to the Duke about the recent decision of the Judges in the case of privilege. I found that he agreed with me in approving that decision, and regretting that Sir Eobert Peel should have pledged himself to tlie opposite view. In answer to a question from Piogers, the Dulce related how Soult had first seen him in his carriage between Toulouse and Paris as they met on the road — each with six horses, and the postillions stopping to change as they do in France — upon which Soult got out,* and walked round the Duke's carriage to look at him with his telescope to his eye. " For my part," said the Duke, " I was then fast asleep, so I did not see him. But I had had a good view of him before. f In the battle of the Pyrenees J we fought across a narrow valley, and Soult being pointed out to me by a spy who was with us, I saw his features most distinctly through my glass — so distinctly that when I met him in a drawing-room at Paris for the first time, I knew him at once. " Soult's officers were great plunderers. The spy I have mentioned told me that in the French army he was once sitting at table with Soult after supper, when General Eble remarked : Lefait est, Monsier le Marechal, qu'il y a seulement deux honnetes liommes dans I'armee; * Ante, pp. 19 and 71. f Ante, p. 19. % For explanation of the expression " Battle of the Pyrenees," see 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), i. p. 41, note. It refers to the actions fought in the Pyrenees after July 1814. 144 NOTES OF COXVERSATIOXS WITH 1839. le premier c'est Latour MoAibourg (who sat opposite) et "^^ le second cest moi. Soult sat quiet, and seemed to acquiesce in Hs own exclusion." I remarked that the degree of French plunder was clearly indicated by the enormous amoimt of booty and bacrrrage taken at Vittoria. "It was enormoii.s, certainly," said the Duke. ""We got about 100,000/. from the military chest, but the French make out that they lost altogether a million of money. I don't think it could be so much, howerer ; but besides the soldiers, the Spanish peasantry got a great deal. ' And not witliout right, I said; it was Spanish money. "Xot all Spanish; some had very lately been sent from Paris to pay the troops, and we took it. * * * The baggage and encumbrances of the French army were immense at Vittoria. A great many ladies too ! One of their prisoners said to me after the battle, Lc fait est, Monscigneiir, que vous avcz uiic arniee, mais nous sarnmes v.n hordel amhulanf. "The French lost eYerything in the battle or the pursuit, except one single carriage and one single cannon. Even those we got afterwards. The gun — a howitzer — they carried into Pamplona, and we had it when the place sui-rendered. The carriage was brought back to my headquarters by iladame la Comtesse de Gazan, who came to look after a child she had lost. I told her we would take her carriage as it was much broken, and pick out for her a much better for her return from our prizes. So she went back in a much better carriage than she came in, and we thus obtained the last of the French. " The child the Countess had lost was found in the THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 145 charge of one of our soldiers, who had taken a fancy to 1839. it, and promised to take care of it if left with him. Strange to say, Madame de Gazan did not seem very unwilling to leave her child with him, and at last I really had some difficulty as I thought in inducing her to take it with her on her return." » * « * » I breakfasted this morning with Hallam, and met June 28. Mr. Webster — the justly celebrated American, whose acquaintance I had already made the day but one before, at a dinner at Lord Stanley's. He told me that in his way out he had been reading two or three odd volumes of the Duke of "Wellington's Despatches, and had been greatly struck at their total freedom from anything like pomp or ostentation, even in moments of the greatest triumph. The Waterloo despatch itself contained nothing about "victory and glory." So impretending was it, said Mr. Webster, that Mr. Quincy Adams — who was our Minister at London at the time, and who had a good deal of bitter feeling against this . country, with which peace had only just been concluded — declared on first reading the despatch that it came from a defeated general, and that in real truth the Duke's army must have been annihilated at Waterloo. This he seriously believed for some time. What a contrast, continued Mr. Webster, to Napo- leon's rhetorical bulletins ! One day one read in them : We have thrown Bliicher into the Bober ! And a few days afterwards one found that Blucher had somehow got out of this Bober and defeated Napoleon himself at Leipsic. » * * « • Dined with the Wiltons, meeting the Duke, Lord Jnne 30. and Lady Stanley, Alava, &c. 146 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 18S9. The Duke and Alava mentioned the custom in Spain and Portugal of waiting every morning upon the Commander-in-chief of an army to inquire how he has passed the night. Much time is wasted by this idle form. The Duke said that while directing the siege of Badajoz he used to pass the best part of the night in the trenches before he returned to his quarters at Elvas. But that made no difference in the ceremony. Next morning he was sure to see General Leite wait upon him at the head of his staff and interrupt him in the midst of business, and all only to inquire, Come vos pasa la noche ? Alava added that on one occasion the deputies from some distant province being in camp and kept off from this ceremony, had come to him to express their apprehension that the Duke would be offended at their having omitted it. Au contraire, Alava told them, il vous en sera fort oblige. July 6. Saturday. — The Duke gave us his Opera box, and sat with us the whole evening. He did not seem at all fatigued, though, as he told us, he had been very busy all day — up till four the previous night on the Education debate — and speaking himself at half-past two. He complained of some Peers who, he said, were too ready to follow " that Will-of-the-wisp Brougham in his motions. And when I endeavour to prevent them, then they call me a Lord Protector — Lord Protector of the Government." Speaking of the distribution of seats in the House of Commons, he asked me where O'Connell usually placed himself. I said on the second bench, but not exactly THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 147 behind the Ministers — lower down, close to the gang- 1839. way. He told me that when Mr. Pitt was out of office he used to sit on the third bench on the Government side below the gangway and in the angle next one of the pillars. Chevening, Aug. 20, 1839. I wrote to the Duke at some length on Spanish affairs. There was an objection, I thought, to stir at that time in the House of Commons when Sir Eobert Peel and many other members had already left town. But perhaps it might not be too late to raise the question in the House of Lords ; and I suggested an address to the Queen, praying that in any negotiations with the Court of Madrid her Majesty would use her good offices to restore and secure the ancient privileges of the Basque Proviaces. My letter went on to say : I may add that there is a remarkable precedent for such a course in the motion proposed by Lord Cowper and carried by the House of Lords, March 31, 1714, in behalf of the liberties of Catalonia. To Lord Mahon. London, Avg. 21, 1839. " My dbae Lokd Mahon, " You have judged quite correctly about the House of Commons. It is not in a state to discuss any question whatever. But it perseveres in bad legislation. " I am unwiUing to put the House of Lords forward L 2 148 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH •1839. in any hjrpotheticarcase. The times of Lord Cowper were not similar to these. In those days that which was right in one House of Parliament was not wrong in the other. " White in the House of Lords was not black in the House of Commons. " I would not give a toss up for the choice between Don Carlos and Marotto, the Queen and Espartero. They ought all to be hanged on the same tree, to avoid the injury which might be done to a second. " I suspect the communications between Lord John Hay and Marotto ; and I don't like to mix myself and the House of Lords in them. " The Basque Provinces are pretty certain of their fueros being secured, happen what may, if we don't interfere. I should advise all parties to leave the Spaniards to settle their own affairs. " Ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " "Wellington." WALMEB CASTLE. Arrived at Walmer Castle, where we found only Mr. Arbuthnot. Sept. 12. Arbuthnot told me that he had received a letter from *^ ' ' the Duke written during the retreat to Torres Vedras, and not included in Gurwood's collection. It was an answer to an application of Arbuthnot in behalf of a relation, and in reply the Duke assured him that he should have great pleasure in promoting this gentleman, but expected to have a better opportunity of doing so a few months afterwards, when they should have driven the French out of Portugal. Such was his confidence of final victory, even in the midst of protracted retreat ! Sept. 14. He told me that when Talleyrand returned to Paris THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 149 from his London embassy, he was asked whether 1839. Edward Ellice was a man of much weight, or what might be his position in society. Ja m'en vais vous le dire, said Talleyrand, Quand on a eit, un grand diner on donne d'ordinaire encore un rechauffe le lendemain — et c'est a ce second diner qu'on invite Monsieur Ellice* Lord Spencer once told Arbuthnot that Macaulay showed great indifference as to the success or failure of his oratory on any particular occasion in the House of Commons. Once, on sitting down, he said to Lord Spencer, who was on the same bench. What a d bad speech I made this evening ! Monday. — ^We expected the Duke to have arrived in Sept. IS. the night, but a parcel by the mail this morning brought a letter from hinn to Arbuthnot, announcing that he was invited to Windsor Castle, and could not be here till Wednesday. Arbuthnot told me that he had more than once heard the Duke observe, in comparing the merits of French and English cavalry, " With one squadron of English cavalry I could beat two French ; with two, I believe I could beat three ; but if it came to larger numbers, I believe that a smaller body of French cavalry would beat me with a larger of English."! Lord Bute came to dine with us. Arbuthnot told us Sept. 17. that the Duke when at Paris had lived in Ouvrard's house, Guvrard stiU retaining the upper story for him- self, and that he (Arbuthnot) had had two or three interesting conversations with Guvrard. In one of * For Greville's opinion of lum, see 'The Greville Memoir^ (Part n.), iii. p. 375. t Poet, p. 220. ISO NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. them Ouvrard related to him his interview with ISTapoleon the morning after Waterloo, exactly as the Duke had repeated it to me, with only this difference — the Duke said it happened at Avesnes, and Arbuthnot is persuaded that Ouvrard spoke of Philippeville.* The Duke had more than once said about the various accounts and anecdotes of the battle of Waterloo, " I shall begin to doubt if I was really there myself" Ouvrard also told Arbuthnot the scene at the Elysee Bourbon before the battle of Waterloo, when it was proposed to arrest him for a supposed correspondence with Ghent. This scene, as related by Ouvrard and as remembered by Arbuthnot, was precisely the same as the subsequent narrative by Ouvrard himself in his Memoirs (vol. i. p. 201, ed. 1826). The book happened to be in the house, and I had lately read it, but Arbuth- not was not aware of its existence, and was much inter- ested and pleased when, after dinner, I read out to him and to Lord Bute the corresponding passage. There , was another curious story about Ouvrard, which he mentioned to Arbuthnot, but has not recorded in his Memoirs. He was imprisoned for nearly four years altogether by ISTapoleon, a feigned name being given him, that every trace of his imprisonment or even of his existence might be evaded. Being of a very active and lately much occupied mind, he found it absolutely necessary to prevent its preying upon itseK by devising for it some employment. He could devise no other in his dark dungeon than obtaining from the gaoler a vast quantity of pins, which he flung upon the floor, first carefully counting them. He then began picking them up again, keepiag an accurate account of them, until the exact number flung down was recovered, * Ante, p. 91. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 151 and he said that sometimes the search for the last pin 1839. about every crevice and cranny of the floor afforded his mind the needful exercise for several days together. When all the pins were recovered, he began throwing them down again. Wednesday. — The Duke arrived at half-past eleven, Sept. 18. just as we were going to bed. He had not left "Windsor Castle till half-past twelve, been about an hour in London, but stopped nowhere to dine, yet he now took only some cups of tea and a very little dry toast. Account of things at Windsor Castle. "One might suppose that coming from Windsor Castle one must be brimful of public news ; but most people there are not thinking so much of that. When they whisper and speak confidentially, it is all about Lady Flora's business, and when they talk out it is : How well the Queen dances ! And the Queen of the Belgians ! " The Duke showed us his letter to Lord Hastings and Sept. 19. those to the Duchess of Kent, I think of the 21st and 23rd of February, the latter one most especially beautiful in its feeling and expression. He gave us a full account of the transaction from first to last. At dinner came Lord Bute, Captain Watts, Fisher, and Vincent. We had to dinner Mrs. Ellison and Colonel Shaw, Sept. 20. Lord WeUesley's Indian Secretary, who is staying at Deal Castle. Sheridan was mentioned. The Duke said that at one time, when Sheridan rented a house in Bruton Street, I believe, the owner found that he could neither get his rent nor induce Sheridan by any means to go. At length, as his only resource, he unroofed the IS2 . NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. house ! «' This," said the Duke, " I had from Mrs. Sheridan." Arbuthnot told us another anecdote, how, when Sheridan was concerned in the management of a theatre, and owed Mrs. Siddons a great deal of money, she went to him one morning with a friend, and entered the house, leaving this gentleman to walk up and down the street, and telling him that she had quite made up her mind not to leave the house without her money. After a long interval she came out again quite rayonnante. Well, said her friend, I hope you have succeeded. Yes indeed I have. Well, and how was it ? Why, you see we had a great deal of conversation together — he showed mo that he is under great difficulties ; however he has positively undertaken to pay me the whole debt next week, provided in the meanwhile I advance him fifty pounds. This I have done ; so you see I have attained my object. Such were Sheridan's powers of persuasion ! I related the story of Sheridan's stealing a good thing of Sir Philip Francis, — meeting Sir Philip, who observed on the treaty of Amiens, which was just concluded, " It is a peace of which everybody will be glad and nobody proud," and Sheridan hastening down to the House of Commons and speaking this sentence as his own. The Duke said the story was quite true, but not complete as I told it, for that Sir Philip and Sheridan had both added, " It is just such a peace as such a war deserves." The former sentence, said the Duke, was a slap at Addington, but the second did service against Pitt. The Duke said that once as Irish Secretary, he was bringing in a Bill in which certain penalties were denounced against any "stranger" who committed THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 153 certain acts of disturbance, upon which- he was attacked 1839. by Sheridan ia the House of Commons. Who is to be ^^ called a stranger ? how do you deiine a stranger ? cried Sheridan. " Why," said the Duke, " I will show the honourable gentleman what a stranger is immediately ; and I then read out another clause in the Bill, in which a stranger was defined to be just such a man as Sheridan was known to be himself — a fellow without property — whom nobody knows — who lives by his wits. This turned the laugh completely in my favour." Was not Sheridan angry ? " Oh no — far from it ; he enjoyed the joke very much. "ISTobody had a cooler manner to his creditors than Talleyrand. Once, when he was going down to his coach, he was stopped by a man who humbly told him that he did not ask for his money, but only begged to know at what time hereafter it would be convenient to his Excellency to pay him. II me semble, Monsieur, que vous etes Men ciorieicx, said Talleyrand ; and he coolly passed on, leaving the poor man quite rebuffed. ***** " When Talleyrand first came over on liis embassy, I remember he one day called out to me across a dinner table : Due de Wellington, savez-vous ee gu'a dit Monsieur de Salverte ? Notre Chamhre de Deputes est lien malheur- euse ! Monsieur Salverte dit qu'elle n'a pas plus de trois cent hommes d'etat ! Quel mallieur ! " I believe, said Arbuthnot, that you once observed to Lord Castlereagh that when one came to close quarters and to actual business with Talleyrand * and the other celebrated statesmen in France, it was astonishing how one found them below their reputation. " Yes, I did. It certainly was very extraordinary • ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 334, and ante, p. 123. 154 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. iiow few really great men were produced by the Eevo- lution in France * The revolutionary movements else- where have produced none at all. What single man of note has grown out of the Eeform Bill ? Who has there been in Spain or Portugal ? " I mentioned Bolivar, in South America. " Yes, but Bolivar had broke down before he died. " In France you have, no doubt, Napoleon for war and government, and Talleyrand for diplomacy. But then you must remember this as to his diplomacy — there is no doubt as to the great superiority of N"apoleon and of its effects, and under that great superiority it was comparatively easy to negotiate. "In these revolutionary movements, men take no thought of principle, good faith, or religion ; they deserve to fail — and in the long run they do fail. ***** " Talleyrand was only told of Don Carlos' escape by Lord Grey at a dinner party at Blackwall, and was very indignant at such a mode of doing business. M. de Frias (he said, but I think it was Miraflores), when he learnt it, instead of raising the alarm and setting the telegraph in motion, set off himself for Paris — as if he could do any good when he got there, and meanwhile Don Carlos had already crossed the frontier into Spain." The Duke gave Arbuthnot and me (for the rest of the company had by that time withdrawn) a full account of his conversation with Don Carlos at Glou- cester Lodge in 1834 — of the advice given by the Duke — and of the opposite course followed by Don Carlos. His visit was on a Sunday, and by Tuesday, Don Carlos had already, it appeared, taken himself off, having left a man to personate him sick in bed. * Supra, p. 42. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 155 " I said to him, You may depend upon it that what- 1839. ever I have now told you, and you me, will be perfectly ""^ well known in Downing Street an hour hence, as I see people listening at the door of the room — as was really the case. Don Carlos merely answered this with an Hah ! Hah ! Hah ! Hah ! — one of the silliest devils I ever knew." After breakfast the Duke spoke of the former system Sept. 21. of French society. " It was not liberty, but equality — that was the mainspring with those who made the Eevolution. They wanted to put down the exclusive society of the higher orders. Under the old system, none were admitted into the great society but those whose ancestors had been gentilhommes in the reign of Philippe Deux — I mean, of course, Philippe Deux of France, not Philip the Second of Spain — the young men of these families were presented at Court when they became seventeen or eighteen years of age, and the etiquette was that on the day on which they were presented they were to be taken out to hunt dans les carrosses du roi. That ceremony established their rank in society ever afterwards. " Even at the present time, different as the state of things is in England, you may observe that the Chartists are endeavouring to raise a similar cry against the exclusiveness of the higher ranks. They sometimes send me the Chartist papers, and I lately saw in one of them an appeal to the shopkeepers on the subject. They asked them as to the higher ranks this question, WiU they associate with your wives and with your daughters ? * * * * * " The nobility in France are richer now, I believe. 156 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. than ever they were. Paris used to be a place' of dissipation and expense to them — they now make it the place of retrenchment and economy. This has been their plan ever since they were cut off from their share of Court favour and influence. It only shows what law-making is. The effect of the laws intended to depress and lower them has been to add to their real effective power and their weight if they like to use it." Walking on the ramparts in the afternoon, I men-^ tioned Lord Wellesley's visit to the Castle in Mr. Pitt's time, as detailed by himself in a memorandum in the ' Quarterly Eeview.' Of Lord Wellesley, the Duke observed that throughout life he had had very delicate health and been obliged to take great care of himself. * * * He had the power of speaking extremely well, but used it extremely seldom.* It was always his view — and he never was satisfied unless — he made the very best speech in the debate. Now there, I think, he was wrong — the thing to think of is not one's speech, but one's object. * * * So seldom did Lord "Wellesley speak, that I never heard him in all my life but onca * * * There was one famous speech he made in the House of Commons before he went out to India; he was supposed to have been a very long while preparing it, so much so, that Mr. Pitt said of him that he was the animal of the longest gestation ever known in the world ! At dinner we were joined by Mrs. Ellison and the Eev. Ealph Backhouse of Walmer. After dinner, Arbuthnot, who is now engaged in reading the Memoirs of the Duchess of Marlborough, said something about Marlborough and Sunderland's » ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part 11.), ii. p. 100. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 157 tricks in politics as not unlike to what was seen in the 1839- Trench Eevolution. "The truth is," said the Duke, "'^ " I never rightly understood the characters at that period or made due allowances for them until I observed the effects which the Eevolution in France had produced upon the minds of their statemen. After such movements, the principles of men become relaxed. They are then not so much attached to dynasties or to principles as their successors become afterwards even to party. ***** " General Eegnaud, who had been Governor of Giudad Eodrigo, expressed his surprise at the way in wliich he observed everybody in my camp talk over and criticise the operations of the Commander-in-chief. With us, he said, no one ventured to touch upon political or military matters unless it were d la louange de VEmfereur. And if one officer was imprudent enough to say a word not tending d la louange de I'Empereur, there was immediately dead silence in the company — not a sound was heard — except from General Dorsenne, who breathed through his nose." Sunday. — To church in the morning and a walk in Sept. 22. the afternoon. Arbuthnot told me that he had heard Mr. Pitt in his last years speak of Eyder (Lord Harrowby) as the person fittest to succeed him. Eyder, however, was never a very good speaker, and he lost ground amongst his friends by crotchets and too much doggedness in his own views. Arbuthnot was present at Lord Liverpool's table on the day when news came of Moreau being killed. The conversation then turned upon the campaign, and Lord Liverpool said 158 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. that he did not despair before the end of it to see the French driven back to the Ehine. All I can say is, exclaimed Lord Harrowby, that if I were to see a man who had been let out of Bedlam, I should think his giving such an opinion as that quite sufficient reason for putting him in again. I walked alone with the Duke on the ramparts, when he detailed to me the plan he had always entertained for the finances of the country. It is not to effect any change whatever in the standard of value, or allow of paper, but to revert to the ancient practice of this country and the present practice of the Continent, by making silver as well as gold a legal tender for large sums. This silver to be given by weight and not by tale, and the Government to fix in the ' Gazette ' from time to time the precise rate at which the two metals should stand towards each other. That rate would be about 15 to 1 — a little more at one time, a little less at another. In France the proportion is not settled by law, but it is left to the parties themselves to settle under the name of Agio, but then they have a police and a gendarmerie to prevent quarrels and outrages on that score in fairs and markets. But that would not do in England, and the Government should therefore determine the proportion for the public, according to the relative supply of the precious metals. In this way, I observed, the finance of the country would have two strings to its bow. " Just so — or rather would have two feet to stand on instead of one." It would prevent the drain of one metal alone at any sudden pressure — such as may be feared this very year for the purchase of foreign corn. It would enable the country to rest on the supply of one metal if the other failed, and would put it in the THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 159 power of the great men who have such masses of plate 1839. in their possession to send their plate in to the Bank '~^ at any extraordinary emergency of national credit. " For my part," continued the Duke, " I was in the Cabinet in 1826, and I well remember that had it not been for most extraordinary exertions — above all on the part of old Eothschild — the Bank must have stopped payment. " I have explained this plan of mine several times to Horsley Palmer and other of the Bank directors. Their objection is that it would oblige the Bank to have a deposit of silver as well as a deposit of gold. But I answer- — so much the better for the country. If you choose to entrust all the financial affairs of this country to such a body as the Bank, the more securities you have of their being able to perform their share of the contract the better." The Duke expressed great anxiety for the mainte- nance of the corn laws, and inquired what I thought would continue to be the feeling of the House of Commons towards them. I found, however, that he had adopted from Lord Tweeddale the opinion that at some period hereafter, and by dint of improvement and expense, the agriculture of England would become in- dependent of the com laws. " For my own part," he said, " I have for several years devoted the whole of my income of my estate to its better cultivation and improvement, I knew this — that the next Duke of Wellington would not be such a man as myself — that there would not be another such probably in my family for a hundred years, and that it was therefore my busi- ness to leave them my land as improved and productive as I could." i6o NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. But then, as the Duke added, how few other gentle- men are able by their circumstances to devote the income of their land to its improvement ! » * * * * On the general state of the country the Duke spoke of his great alarm and anxiety at the danger from the present Ministry, leagued as they are with the worst enemies of the State. He compared them to the case of a servant left in charge of a house, but in confederacy with the gang that wished to rob and burn it. But he alluded to the religious state of England, and in very solemn and emphatic terms declared his confidence — which he said often rose in his mind — that God Almighty would not allow our Church to be subverted. We were only four at dinner. In the evening we talked over the right theory of public education, our system in England and in Ireland, the question of Maynooth, &c. Sept. 23. At breakfast the Duke told us the following story : — ■ Admiral Berkeley when commanding the fleet at Lisbon, was annoyed with a Minorquese — a portrait- painter — who fell desperately in love with his daughter, now Lady Euston, and wrote her several letters announcing his passion. At last, on his bringing one of them to the Admiral's door, the Admiral desired him to be taken to the police. To this the Minorqiiese strongly demurred, declaring that he was a British sub- ject. It was found that he had been born in Minorca while it was still under British dominion. Oh, then, said the Admiral, if you are a British subject, well and good — hallo there — send for a sergeant of marines ! He had the Minorquese pressed as' a sailor and sent on board his flag-ship, the 'Harfleur,' and there he re- THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. i6i mained — the poor miniature-painter— set to paint the 1839. ship — and alternately painting and being ilogged, till ^^ some one interceded for him, and he was set at liberty. « » * * * The Duke told us that at one time William the Fourth had given his consent to a railroad which was to run through Windsor Park, the directors having undertaken that it should be adorned with a hanginf' bank planted with wood, picturesque buildings, and so many other things, as to make it an embellishment rather than a deformity to the Eoyal demesne. But when the Duke was applied to for his consent to another part of the same line through his estate near Eeading, his answer was, " Every man has the same right to his property as the King ; and if you like to do for me what you have done for the King, I will give my consent, but not otherwise." He heard no more of it. Walked with the Duke on the ramparts in the after- noon. Conversation on the present state of and future measures for the two provinces of Canada. This being the anniversary of Assaye, we had, in celebration of it, a party of fifteen gentlemen altogether at dinner, and two ladies — Lady Mahon and Mrs. Ellison. After dinner, Lord Bute, bending forwards, proposed the Duke's health in very good taste, and we all drank it round without rising. The conversation after dinner turned, however, not at all on the brilliant achievement of the day, but on Portugal. The Duke commended very much, as accurate and well- written, General Thiebault's work on the com- paign of Vimiera. Thiebault, he said, was the son of the Frenchman employed in the Academy of Potsdam, in the reign of Frederick the Great. The French, when first they entered Portugal irnder M 1839. i62 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH Junot, met with no resistance at all ; had they done so, they could not have got to Lisbon, their route being- most rugged, and the rainy season just beginning. * * » « * Is it not singular, asked Arbuthnot, that when Marshal Massena invaded Portugal, he should not have been aware of the natural defences and strength of the country about Torres Vedras ? " He had no want of persons able to inform him, there heing with him the Marquis d'Alorna and General Pamplona. They both assured him that the country was open between the Mondego and Lisbon — as indeed it is in one sense. So when Massena came before our lines and was stopped by them, he reproached these gentlemen with having deceived him. They retorted that it was the Marshal's business and not theirs to have received information of the works which Lord Wellington had lately constructed. Que diable ! an- swered Massena, il net pas construit ccs montagnes ! " The way we knew of this conversation is as curious as the conversation itself. General Pamplona kept a journal which we took — I forget where we took it, but I had it — and in it he had entered an account of his altercation with Massena. " I knew Massena, afterwards, well at Paris ; and met him first at a dinner at Marshal Soult's, who was then Minister of War. In the course of our talk I reminded him of his former discussion with D'Alorna and Pamplona, to which he replied, Ce so7it deux inauvais coquins. " Massena was much excited at first seeing me, made a great noise, and greeted me very cordially. Ah, Monsieur le Mareclial, que vous m'avcz fait passer des inauvais momens ! And he declared to me that I had THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 163 not left him one black hair on his body ; he had turned 1839. grey, he said, all over. I answered that I thought we had been pretty even — things nearly balanced between ns. iSTo, he said, how near you were taking me two or three times ! — which I was." After dinner we took leave of the Duke, going to reside at our own house on the beach, and closing our visit to the Castle with heartfelt regret and gratitude. I have not mentioned that all this while two of the children (who were always called Oggy and Bo) of Lord and Lady Eobert Grosvenor,* were staying at the Castle, their parents being on a Continental tour, and I could not but be struck at the very great kindness and good- nature with which the Duke treated them, and indeed all the children with whom I ever saw him. Lord and Lady "Wilton, we heard, arrived at the Sept. 24. Castle, which prevented the Duke going, as he had in- tended, to the Deal ball. Lord Strangford and his son also came to him from Heme Bay. A note from the Duke invited us to dinner, where, besides the party named above and Mr. Arbuthnot, we met Mrs. Ellison and Captain Watts. The Duke told us a hon mot of Brougham. Two people talking over in his presence what clever men had of late years entered the House of Commons, one named "Wakley — Oh ! answered the other, as to him he will scarcely set the Thames on fire. No, said Brougham, nnless indeed he had insured it. We went with the Duke, the Wiltens, and Arbuthnot Sept. 36. to see some preparations for an experimental battery beyond Sandown Castle. * Afterwards Lord and Lady Ebury. M 2 i64 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. The Duke gave us his opinion as to the place of Csesar's landing — that he had first attempted it alsout the spot where Walmer Castle now stands — that finding the natives posted there he had gone onwards — that he had affected his landing somewhere in the low grounds not far from Sandwich, having the water up to his middle — and had then marched on to the present site of Eichborough, where he had entrenched himself I objected that, according to this, Ci^sar would have had to cross the river Stour, and that there is no mention of any river in the original accounts of his landing, either in Ciesar's Commentaries or in Tacitus. The Duke replied that there was reason to suppose the river Stour to have had a different outlet in former times — one in a different direction. "We afterwards dined with him. Of Espartero,* the self-styled " Duke of Victory," I asked the Duke whether he remembered him or had ever heard of his name as an officer in the Spanish campaigns. The Duke answered in the negative. * *- * * *- George Smythe, next whom I sat at dinner, told me that the Duke had said to him that in all his observation of public life in England, he remembered only two speakers who were quite sure of themselves — who knew exactly what they were going to say. These two were Mr. Pitt and Lord Liverpool. * «• * «• * The Duke gave us a very entertaining story, especially in his way of telling it, of his early days in the Military Academy at Angers. He used frequently to dine with the Due de Brissac — a courtier of the days of Louis Quinze, and afterwards guillotined in the Eevolution. * Post, p. 207. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 165 This Due had a very fine chateau at no great distance 1839. from Angers, and showed much hospitality to the young men recommended to him from the Eoyal Academy — to priests, wandering monks, and in short to anybody that came in liis way. But though his table was magnificently supplied near the centre, where himself and the principal guests sat, it was as ill furnished towards both ends assigned to the persons of less note. The centre was very strong, said the Duke, but the flanks extremely weak ; not only scantUy supplied with dishes, but — and this was the chief complaint of the young men — with very inferior wine. One day, when the Duke was there, the Due de Brissac had brought to him the bill of fare, and seeing on it some chevreuil which he had not seen in reality on the table, he angrily asked the servant where it was. The servant at last faltered out, 11 etait devant le P'erc Basilc. Pere Basile was inmiediately assailed by the Due with a volley of interrogations as to where the chevreuil was, or whether it had resumed its legs and run away ! In reply, Pere Basile pleaded that he had helped one or two people whom he named, but he must have eaten the greater part himself, and certainly there was not a morsel remaining. But Pere Basile did not escape so easily : not only had he this Irccxc from the Due at table, but the young officers, enraged and hungry, actually combined and watched their opportunity after dinner to flog the poor man ! Only think what would be said in England, concluded the Duke, if at Belvoir Castle, or any other great house, there was one set of dishes put on table for the master of the house, and another set not so good for his guests ! How long were you at Angers altogether ? asked Lady Wilton. " I don't remember exactly — a year perhaps." i66 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. I asked -vylietlier the Duke had ever known of any other officer "\\'ho had been educated at Angers in the British army ? " No, I don't remember any one. The late Lord Thanet was — but he was not in the army. The Academy was not for officers merely. "I think Chateaubriand was there. I think I remember him at tlie Academy, but am not sure. " I remember also the Abbe Sieyes — not at the Academy — for he was a great many years older than I was ; but I met him at dinner at the Due de Praslin's- in the neighbourhood. Sieyes was one of the Assemblee de Notables then forming. " Several Frenchmen whom I knew at Angers, I met afterwards at I'aris as ambassadors. One of them was M. D'Archambault — Talleyrand's brother; another, M. de Jaucourt — Secretary for Foreign Affairs. M. de Jaucourt had married a lady with whom I was acquainted at Angers; she was then the wife of M. de la Chatre, but he emigrating early, the lady thought fit to desert him and contract another marriage with M. de Jaucourt. At the Court of Louis XVIIL, after the Eestoration, these two gentlemen met — the one as Gentilhomme de la Chambre, the other as. Minister of State ; but of course they did not speak, and this want of communication occasioned some in- convenience in the attendance of the Palace. Louis XVIIL spoke to me of it — for at that time I had a finger in every pie — and I advised him to try if it was not possible to make it up as an old quarrel. What is extraordinary is that they really did consent to. make it up." I presume, Sir, that at Angers the Eoyal Academy was, as at Brienne, in the old castle — I have observed a view of that castle in a print of Angers. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 167 " No ; the Academy was quite a modern building — 1839. at some distance from the castle, which was at the top of the town." How strange would it have been, Sir, if instead of -Angers you had been sent to Brienne, and brought up with Napoleon ! " Yes ; but it could hardly have been. Brienne was reserved entirely for the Eoyal Military pupils. " Had the war continued a little longer in 1814, I should certainly have seen Angers again. I should have brought my army up to the Loire, and afterwards fixed my headquarters at Angers." If you had, Sir, it would have been a curious coinci- dence with another point in Napoleon's life — his giving a battle at Brienne, after having there received his military education. I rode with Wilton, while the Duke drove her Sept. 27, ladyship in Ms phaeton to Eichborough, and we there walked over the ruins together. The Duke again adverted to Caesar's landing and encampment here. In the evening we dined at the Castle. Lord Strang- ford and his son went to-day ; Lord and Lady WUton go to-morrow. On the other hand, Mr. Hayter has arrived to take a sketch of the Duke, for his picture of the Coronation; and there is also Mr. Lindsay, fresh from China, and brimful of Chinese news — he is staying at the hotel at Deal, and came down, I believe, on purpose to see the Duke respecting our transactions with the Celestial Empire. At this dinner were also Lord Bute, Captain Fisher, and Mrs. Ellison. Adverting to Macaulay's appointment as Secretary at War, the Duke spoke of his proposed code of laws for India, which he considered far from good. i68 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. Walk with the Duke this afternoon, and long con- versation on the present state of the Eastern question. " Formerly I could keep Mehemet Ali in tranquillity by merely holding up my finger. When in 1830 he wished — and the French wished — that he should take part in the expedition to Algiers, I stopped him by merely writing to him that we would not allow it — and I let Polignac and Laval know that I had done so. But we were then a Government. We were then a Power. * » * * * "Now we have not even a peace establishment. * * * I am going in a few days to review at Canter- bury three hundred men, and the Emperor of Paissia goes to Borodino to review two hundred thousand ! " Out with the liarriers this morning. Conversation on the expected visits of to-night. " It is a charming thing to be Boniface ! * * * to find rooms for them all in that small castle * * * and the gentlemen's gentle- men, and the ladies' ladies! * * * it is as bad as quartering an army." The Duke told me that in Spain he had issued an order that no man of his army was to enter a place of worship except for the purpose of joining in that worship, having found that many at first went into the churches only to stare and gape about them, as at a novelty. The Irish Catholic soldiers used to make use of their signs of the cross to get aguardiente in the villages ; for the country people, seeing from this that they were brethren in faith, used to bring out their stores more readily. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 169 " In India I remember that Lingo Punt, who is often 1839. mentioned in my despatches — he was envoy of Goklah "^ — said to me one day, I have not seen your goddess yet in your camp ; I used formerly to worship your goddess." On being asked for an explanation, it appeared that he had been at the siege of Trichinopoli in former times, and had there seen a Roman Catholic chapel with an effigy of the Virgin Mary, and that Lingo Punt and the other Mahrattas being polytlieists, had felt no scruple in joining in her adoration. We afterwards dined at the Castle. The Duke of Cambridge was there, but the Duchess and Princess Augusta did not arrive till after dinner. Another new visitor was Baron Dedel* The Duke told us he had attended the funeral of Lord ISTelson ; he also attended Mr. Pitt's. ***** Dedel told me a curious prediction, or rather, said he, as a proof how well M. Haber, the banker and dabbler in Carlist loans, understood the Spanish character. When he first heard of Marotto ordering so many of his brother officers to be shot without form of trial, he said to Dedel, Soyez sur que c'est le commencement cl'une transaction. ***** Walk on the ramparts of Walmer Castle, and dined Oct. 4. there afterwards. A party of eighteen. In the evening a concert; the Duke having engaged several vocalists from London, and invited most of the neighbours. All went off extremely well, and was over by half-past ' eleven. Lady Burghersh, next whom I sat, told me that lately calling on Lord Wellesley, she had seen upon his * Dutoli Minister at the Court of St. James. I70 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. table a print of Sir Joshua Eeynolds's " Ugolino," and the conversation turning upon this, Lord Wellesley repeated several lines from Dante's description. She expressed her surprise at his powers of memory, when he answered that he really thought, if he tried, he could repeat nearly the whole of that canto ; and on trying,, he really did repeat to her above fifty lines of it. She was struck too, she said, at his pure and classic proniinciation of the Italian, and of that there could not be a more competent judge. I obser^'ed to her that what enhanced the merit of these accomplishments was that they never could have proceeded from business or ambitious objects, as he had never any Italian mission to fulfil or Italian negotiation to conduct, so that love of literature must have been his. only motive. As a proof how brilliant is still Lord Wellesley's wit, Lady Burghersh told me that he had remarked on the evidence before Lord Eoden's committee and Lord Normanby's reckless opening of tlie Irish jails : It is. only because Lord Normanby is so much used to theatricals — he has exchanged the customary attributes, of J\Iercy and Justice on his stage — he has made Mercy blind and Justice weeping ! I was much surprised, and Lady Burghersh was not less so when I told her that this was precisely the most brilliant and beautiful point in Lord Brougham's speech on Lord ISTormanby, and that he had used it without any acknowledgment. Lady Burghersh was not aware of this before. She- said she remembered mentioning Lord Wellesley's hon mot to Brougham, and that Brougham had answered. Ay — Lord Wellesley told me that himself. Lady Burghersh i.'i now painting a picture of th& THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 171 Duke writing the despatch of '\A'aterloo. Por this 1839. piirpose, she said, slie had induced the Duke to give her a full account of the time and mode of his writing that despatch. He had begun it at Waterloo very early on the morning of the 19th, rerj soon after Dr. Hume had come to him with the news of Gordon's death and other losses ; but when he received the further account of Ponsonby having fallen, he broke off — feeling that he could not bring himself to write any more then, and did not go on with his despatch till after he had rode into Brussels later the same morning. I observed that this account exactly tallies with the appearance of the original draft of that despatch which I have seen amongst the Duke's papers. The first date written upon it is " Waterloo," but that is dashed out and the date " Bruxelles " substituted. We dined at '\A'almer Castle. A large party to meet Oct 6, their Eoyal Highnesses ; a larger still and a concert in the evening. After dinner some allusion occurred to the celebrated but imaginary mot on the Old Imperial Guard, ascribed to General Cambronne at Waterloo. The Duke men- tioned across the table to Dedel, who confirmed it, that a set of ladies at Brussels had afterwards got the nickname of La Vicillc Garde — f[id mcurt mais nc se rend pas. Lord Fitzroy Somerset* mentioned a caricatui-e which came out at Paris, and which gave the mot, mth the superscription, Dcrnicrs mots du Genercd Camlironnc en rendant son epee. " Xever, certainly," said the Duke, " was anything so alisurd as ascribing that saying to Cambronne. Why, I * Afterwards Lord Eaglan. 172 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. found him that very evening in my room at "Waterloo — him and General Mouton — and I bowed them out ! I said to them, Messieurs, fen suis Men fache, mais je nc puis jJcis avoir I'honneur de vous recevoir jusqu'd ce que voiis ayez fait votre paix avec Sa Majeste Tres Ghreticnnc. They bowed. I added, Ge nest pas p)ossihle, and I passed on. I would not let them sup with me that night. I thought they had behaved so very ill to the King of France.* "Pozzo was present.f I begged him, as he was returning to Brussels, to write a letter to the King of France announcing the battle, as I wanted to go to bed. Accordingly he wrote, and he sent his letter by a Eussian officer, who arrived at Ghent just when the Eoyal Family was sitting at breakfast. I have often thought since — there's history ! Some future writer will say, It was a Eussian officer that brought the despatch to Louis XVIII. ; it is quite clear then that the Eussian generals must have had a principal share in the battle (laughing). " It was this Eussian officer of Pozzo that occasioned the iirst intelligence of the battle in England. T])e room at Ghent in which the Eoyal Family of France was breakfasting had a large bow-window, and before that bow-window there happened to be passing an .agent of Eothschild — a Jew. He saw the Eussian officer enter, and after the letter was read he saw every one embrace him, and then each other — there was nothing but embracing and kissing in the room ; upon which the Jew concluded that it must be the tidings of joy, and that the fighting which was already known * Fast, p. 245. t This passage corrects and elucidates the story in ' The Crokor iPapers,' i. p. .'59, and ante, p. 122. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 173 must have ended in a most decisive victory. He said 1839. nothing, but instantly set off for London. At Ostend, at embarking, he saw Malcolm, to whom he declared that he knew no news — observed strict silence all the way — got to London — went with Rothschild to the Stock Exchange and did his little business there— and when that was done, then Eothschild brought him to Lord Liverpool, early in the afternoon." Yes, said Lord Fitzroy, and it was not till nearly ten o'clock that evening that Percy with your despatch arrived. This was confirmed by Arbuthnot. He had re- turned from the House of Commons, and was sitting quietly in his room, when he heard a great uproar in Downing Street, which he ascribed at first to one of the Corn Law mobs that were frequent at that time. Going do-wTi into the street to see, he perceived a chaise and foru- with eagles out of the windows, at the door of the Colonial Office, while inquiry was making within for Lord Bathurst. Arbuthnot knew that Lord Bathurst was with the rest of the Cabinet dining at Lord Harrowby's in Grosvenor Square, upon which he stepped into the chaise and drove there with Percy. In Grosvenor Square the sight of the eagles and so forth gathered a great crowd to the door, and Arbuthnot was sent out to the head of the staircase to announce to them the happy tidings. He ended by saying, In short, the French army is entirely destroyed; upon which, says Arbuthnot, Lord Harrowby interposed in his usual critical way and cried out, I beg your pardon, Mr. Arbuthnot — ^but not exactly — I think you are going a little too far. I asked where the Prince Eegent received the tidings ? 174 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. The Duke said that the Prince Eegent was that clay dining at Mr. Appen's (or some name like that), a merchant. " He must have been drinking hard that day, for when the express got there after some con- siderable delay at Lord Harrowby's, it found him still at table. It must have been as in the tragedy of 'Bergami' — you remember you lent it me (laughing, and turning to me). In that play Bergami, you remember, is supposed to be at the coronation, and to peep through at the king in the banquet, and he is made to exclaim, DiaUc, comma il boit ! Absolumcnt, comme un ancien postilion retire ! » » * * * " In the morning before the battle I saw on the ground- the Knight of Kerry and Butler, afterwards Lord Ormond. I said to the Knight of Kerry : Don't be uneasy ; we are in a good position ; we shall do very well. " Lord Sunderland, I heard, was also on the ground that morning, but I did not see him. He got blamed afterwards in England for spreading unfavourable anti- cipations of the day." Oct. 6, In yesterday's Spectator I find the following lettei', addressed by the Duke to the Eev. Mr. Cruttwell, " Currency Doctor." " LONDOX, ith July, 1839. " The Duke of Wellington presents his compliments to Mr. Cruttwell, and has received his letter. " The Duke begs Mr. Cruttwell to publish upon the currency if he pleases, and to speak upon the subject to whom he pleases. " The Duke desires to have nothing to say to it ; and THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 175 lie entreats Mr. Cruttwell not to give himself the 1839. trouble of writing to him again." This is straightforward and characteristic. The mode in which, according to the SjJcciator, Mr. Crutt- well was treated by Mr. Spring Eice, seems exactly opposite, but equally characteristic of the ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer. That gentleman " politely and generously acceded" to his request for an interview; made several appointments to meet him ; but always put them off when the time came, on the plea of "unavoidable accidents." How exactly like Spring Pace ! The Spectator adds : " Slight things mark men. A good deal is talked about ' Tory trickery ' ; but in the case before us, candour compels us to say that the trickery was all with the Whigs: wliilst Sir Eobert Peel and the Duke of Wellington discouraged, with unpalatable plainness, the delusions of this unfortunate gentleman, the whole batch of Whig ministers, by hollow and insincere treatment, have stimulated him to years of toil, trouble, and expense." In the morning to Walmer Church. In the e\-ening to Walmer Castle, where we met only the party staying there and Mrs. EUison. The Duchess of Cambridge having by accident worn some tricolour or nearly tricolour ribbons the evening before, and I having sent her some verses upon this circumstance, the conversation now turned upon the origin of this revolutionary emblem. The Duke explained how it was adopted from the colours of the House of Orleans, which were white, red and blue, while those of the elder branch of the Bourbons were only blue and red. " As these colours had bfien adopted by France for 1/6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. twenty years, it might have been a question whether in 1814 it was advisalile to change them again to the white of the Bourbons. But next year I opposed and prevented the tricolour being retained. By that time it had become the emblem of another revolution." * * ■ * * * The Duke of Cambridge told me that wlien Blucher"* died he was under the delusion of his being pregnant vrith an elephant — exactly the delusion under which the Duke (as he has formerly mentioned to me) saw him labouring previously at Paris. ^ "3?^ 3fr 5^ it^ The Duke detailed to us the attack upon him in the streets of London and on "Waterloo day (I think in 1832), as I remember hearing it from him at the time. He was then on his return from beyond the Tower, from the ilint, where he had been sitting to Pistrucci for a bust or medal. Had the assailants known how to set about it, they might easily have tilted liim over his horse's head, by a man seizing each of his heels. He was not secm'e against this danger until joined by the two old soldiers, whom he desired to keep close to him, each to a stirrup, and to " face about " whenever the pressure of tire crowd compelled the Duke to stop. He was also much aided by a gentleman behind him in a tilbury — he does not know who it was to this day — but the tilbury keeping close behind him, stopping when he stopped, and moving when he moved, prevented the crowd from pressing in upon him in any overpowering mass. At length, besides the two old soldiers, a police- man came up, and got one of his comrades, and then the Duke desiring these two policemen to keep at the * Ante, p. 119. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 177 horse's head and form his vanguard, he became toler- 1*39. ' — """ ably safe. Surely, future ages will refuse to believe the madness of these times ! The Duke also related to the rest of the company his visit to Chevening and "Wilderness. "I was drawn into Chevening, but hooted out of it ! " — the fact being, as he proceeded to relate it, that a party of our tenantry, &c., meeting him with a band of music at the bridge above Chevening House, had taken the horses off his carriage and drawn it on. But a knot of ruffians and blackguards, knowing that he would have to pass by Eiverhead some hours later, stationed themselves there in waiting, and when they saw him began so serious an attack, that his servant with him grasped his pistols and wished to use them. The Duke stopped him, saying they should get off with a pelting, and accord- ingly they had only some volleys of gravel, &c. Purther on the Duke was again mobbed at Lord Camden's own inn, a mile from his house. On his way back the same night he was told to expect at the town of Bromley a still worse reception ; there, however, to his surprise, he found himself greeted by the loudest cheers and huzzas. " In short," he added, laughing, "there are little revolutions on the road — ups here and downs there — the only way is never to care about them." As another instance of the popular vicissitudes in one day, the Duke related how at Lord Camden's installa- tion at Cambridge, he had been met some miles off by Lord Hardwicke and many hundred gentlemen and yoemen on horseback, who escorted him into the town amidst the loudest acclamations from all ranks. But on the same afternoon he walked alone with the Duke 178 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. of ISTorthumbeiiand towards Trinity Lodge, through an obscure suburb, when they found themselves surrounded by a violent mob. These good people raised a cry of " Go it! Go it! " — a frequent precursor of mischief, and pressed in upon the Dukes closer and closer and more and more angrily as they walked on. At length in their pressing they knocked over a little boy, whom the Duke set on his legs again and advised to run off. The mob then began abusing him violently, as if he, and not they, had knocked down the boy. Upon this the Duke said to the Duke of Northumberland, " You may depend upon it, our only way is to turn about and face them;" and so they did. But just then, or immediately afterwards, some policemen came up and succeeded in extricating them. During the Queen Caroline mobs, the Duke one day encountered a mob, close to Lord Harrington's house, in the stable yard, St. James's. He was riding, and his horse became restive with the noise and confusion. Upon this the Duke reining him in with a sudden effort, the jerk threw backward over his shoulder a switch or umbrella (I forget which he said) which he carried in the other arm. It looked like a brandish of what he carried, and the mob supposed that he was going to charge them, for that instant they took to their heels, and all ran off. Oct. 7. M. Dedel left the Castle this morning, but their Eoyal Highnesses continue till to-morrow. At two o'clock the Duke gave a great public breakfast in their honour, attended by from one hundred to a hundred and twenty persons — many from Eamsgate and Dover. The Duke adverted to the letters in the Spectator which I had mentioned to him last night and asked THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 179 Mm to look at. He was amused at seeing his own 1839. answer, and at the contrast it afforded to those of Spring Eice. We afterwards dined at the Castle — a party of only twelve. Mrs. Ellison, Captain Watts and Dick Somerset from Deal Castle, being the other external guests. In the evening another concert and large party. The Duke of Cambridge asked me wliich I thought the best French newspaper to read ? I answered that I thought it better to read two — one of each extreme — the Gazette de France and the National — between whose collisions some sparks of truth were struck out. I added that the Gazette de France, representing the high Eoman Catholic party, was very entertaining in its accounts of England — always setting forth O'Connell and his Irish tail as a band of peculiar intelligence, education, and elegance — as a leaven thrown upon the inferior mass of the English House of Commons, that would in time raise and refine the character of the whole. This produced first a laugh and afterwards a serious conversation on the Eoman Catholics. "It is very alarming," said the Duke, "to observe the progress that Popery seems to be making every- where at present." What is the reason of that ? asked Arbuthnot. "The reason I take to be that Popery and Protes- tantism have changed sides as to their social relations. At the outset Protestantism took the side of popular claims. Popery, on the other hand, ranked itself with the monar- chical institution — with the aristocratical institution — with the institution, in short, of conservation. The scene has now changed. Popery to make proselytes is ready to side with modern republicanism ; it espouses even the s 2 186 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. voluntary principle, wlien that •wiU serve a present turn. " It is remarkable that the Papal government, which rejects democracy and the voluntary principle in its own Italian states, readily encourages and avails itself of them elsewhere for the extension of its influence and power. " When Napoleon re-established the Eoman Catholic religion in Trance, he was very far from intending tha*' it should promote and favour the voluntary principle. But yet that has grown unavoidably out of his institu- tion. For the stipends he allotted to the ciores were so extremely small — in some cases not more than 16?. a year, on which a man cannot live in Erance any more than he could in England — that this has driven them towards the voluntary principle even for daily bread." The Duke went through in this manner the principal European and also the South American States. I fear I do not remember his reflections with sufficient dis- tinctness to attempt to put them down, but I never shall forget the energy and earnestness of manner iwith which at the close of the conversation he deprecated mere " secular education " — knowledge without religion — and doubted whether the devil himself could devise a worse scheme of social destruction. Oct, 8. We breakfast at the Castle this morning to take* leave of their Eoyal Highnesses. At breakfast the. conversation turned upon writing on windows with a diamond pencil. The Duke said that as great things spring from little ones, it was some scribbling of this kind that prevented George the Eourth from ever returning to Brighton. For a lady at the Pavilion (it THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. i8i is not difficult to guess who), having her attention 1839. called — probably by her maid or some such person, "^ to some "words on a window written with a diamond and reflecting severely upon herself, declared in her passion that she would never return to the place — nor did she, nor the King either. And this was the secret but undoubted reason for his keeping away from Brighton ever since. Rode out with the Duke huntiag. Prom some con- Oct. 12. versation on the probable results of tlie penny postage he passed to an account of the Post in India. It is called the DatvTc in some districts; the Tappal in others. It is always carried by a man on foot, who travels prodigious distances, going at the rate of five or six miles an hour, and bearing a kind of rattle whose sound scares away the snakes and other dangerous animals from his path as he moves along. His loins are very tightly girded. So sure and certain is this mode of conveyance, even through very tmsettled countries, that the Duke, after having been separated from Colonel Stevenson for several months and along hundi'eds of miles — one on each side of the Taptee — was able to combine his movements "\nth his so accurately, that they met in the appointed field and time just before the battle of Argaum. "I saw the dust raised by his march in the distance, and I desu'ed an officer near me to ride off to him and teU him to move to a particular village which I pointed out, and that there he should have further orders. But, said the officer, what am I to do if it should not be Colonel Stevenson ? Why then, I answered, you are mounted on a d good horse, and you have eyes in your head — and you must ride off as hard as you can. i82 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. " The Mahrattas near me were much surprised at my ""^ message. How, they said, can you possibly tell Colonel Stevenson's dust from anybody else's dust ? " The Duke added that the Mahrattas about him had also been much astonished at his discovery of a ford * before Assaye — which he felt sure must be in a par- ticular place, from the position of two villages opposite each other, one on each side of the river. On this con- viction he instantly acted — marched down his troops to the place, found the ford and cut off the enemy in flank. After some further conversation de rebus Indicis, I observed to the Duke that his previous experience and trial of war in the Dutch campaign must have been very useful to him. " Why — I learnt what one ought not to do, and that is always something." Your regiment, Sir, was, I believe, left for a long while on the Waal without any order or direction ? "Yes, the headquarters were twenty-five miles off. I was on the Waal, I think, from October to January, and during all that time I only saw once one general from the headquarters, which was old Sir David Dundas. * * * We had letters from England, and I declare that those letters told us more of what was passing at headquarters than we learned from the headquarters themselves. * * * The real reason why I succeeded in my own campaigns is because I was always on the spot — I saw everything, and did everything for myself." # * « » * I mentioned with much praise Lady De Lancy's narrative of her husband's lingering death and of her own trials and sufferings after Waterloo. * ' The Croker Papers,' i, p. 353, and ante, p. 49. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 183 The Duke told me that he had seen it — Lord Bathurst 1839. having lent it him many years ago. He was next De Lancy when he was struck ; it was not by an actual wound, but by the wind of a cannon-ball. This it was afterwards found had separated the ribs from the back- bone. Colonel De Lancy feU from his horse to the ground, and then bounded up again into the air like a struck pheasant. He was thought to be dead, and reported as such ia the first bulletin of the battle ; however, the Duke had him carefully conveyed from the field in a blanket, and was afterwards told not only that he was alive, but that he would certainly recover. Accordingly the Duke went (I suppose two days afterwards) to see him in the house where he lay wounded, and accosted him cheer- fully and encouragingly, telling him that after thus being supposed to be dead he would have the same advantage as the man in Casth Eackrent, and learn by this what everybody else thought and said of him. However, he expired at last from the inward hurt. He was an excellent officer, and would have risen to great distinc- tion had he lived. Lord Anglesey was struck by grapeshot in the leg as he was riding alongside of the Duke and conversing with him.* The Duke being next the side from whence the shot proceeded, the shot passed over the neck of the' Duke's horse till it reached Lord Anglesey; and the Duke, seeing him reel, supported him in his saddle and prevented his falling. Lord Anglesey was at that moment trying to persuade the Duke to halt his troops — that he had done enough, and ought not to attempt pushing the enemy further that day. I mentioned having heard at Waterloo that Lord Anglesey in a subsequent visit to the place had found * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.), i. p. 135. l84 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. the very table on- which he had lain for the amputation of the limb, and had had dinner spread upon it, for himself and two sons who accompanied him in his visit. The Duke was also near Lord Fitzroy Somerset at his wound, which was given from behind by a musket- ball proceeding from the wall of La Haye Sainte.* It shattered the arm, and Lord Fitzroy fell from his horse. It was most extraordinary, as the Duke observed, that neither he nor his horse were touched in such a day. In a private letter of the Duke's which I have seen, written the day after the battle, I remember these words : "The finger of Providence was upon me, and I escaped." . The Duke spoke then of his only wound at Orthezf ■ — in the hip: but even that allowed him to continue riding the same day, though not to get over inolosures, «fee., as he would usually do. Except that once he had had balls through his clothes and hat but not his limbs, he had been often struck too, but never wounded. What, I asked, is the distinction 1 Struck, he said, is from a spent ball, which may often be able to knock a man over and yet do him no other injury. I observed to him how similar had been his fate to ISTapoleon's in this respect — Napoleon having, I thought, been wounded once only — -in the leg also — ^in the campaign of Ulm.| Oct. 14. Out with the harriers. The Duke conversed with * ' The Greville Memoirs' (Part IL), i. p. 135. t 'IbiJ. The ball struck him on the side and knocked him down. X Keally. Eatisbon. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, 185 jne at some length upon his carrying the Eoman 1839. Catholic question- — ^its causes — and its results. Passing on to the fall of his administration in 1830. he told me that some little time previous to the division on the Civil List which occasioned it, Sir Eobert Peel had mentioned to Arbuthnot, and Arbuth- not had repeated it to the Duke, that if even the Government should stand, he (Peel) was wearied out, and would not continue a member of it beyond the Christmas ensuing. The Duke said he would now proceed to relate a- very extraordinary thing, which he prefaced by observ- ing that of all the men he had ever known, the one with the best memory was Peel, and that it was impossible for any man to be more distinguished for scrupulous veracity. He is quite persuaded that in the whole course of his life Sir Eobert never said a word that he did not believe to be strictly true. The Duke then said that some years back, taking Croker down in his carriage to Sudbourn, he had men- tioned to Croker the communication received through Arbuthnot in 1830. Croker was much astonished, and asked full particulars: he then, it seems, put down what the Duke said, and took an opportunity when next at Drayton to show the paper to Peel. Sir Eobert thereupon declared that he had not the slightest recollection of having said any such thing, and could pot conceive that he actually did. " How hard is this to explain ! " observed the Duke. " Nothing can be more unquestionable in the world than the veracity both of Peel and Arbuthnot — and Peel has such an admirable memory — yet in spite of it must have for- gotten the whole transaction." In the evening we dined at the Castle, to meet i86 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. Count Brunnow, the Eussian ambassador, who left us soon after ten for Dover, where he is to embark to-morrow. The party was fourteen in all, among them two artists, Mr. Lucas and Mr. Haydon — to whom the Duke is sitting for portraits — one at Winchester, the other at Liverpool. I mentioned to Arbuthnot the anecdote relative to himself which I heard from the Duke this morning, and I found his recollection of it the same. He gave me some additional particulars. Passing on to other conversation, he told me that the first time he had ever met Mr. Pitt and Lord Grenville at dinner, they engaged in a keen argument about some point in the 'Arabian Nights,' of which each was a warm admirer, and Arbuthnot, being a young man who perhaps had lately read them, was appealed to as umpire. * * ijt * * Mr. Latham, of Dover, mentioned having read in this morning's papers the details of an outrage at "Windsor — some panes broken by night in the Queen's sitting-room. The Duke observed that as the sentinels did not detect it, it was probably done from some considerable distance. During the Eeform Bill ferment, he was one day sitting in his room at Apsley House when a stone passed over his head, having broken first a pane in the window, and then breaking another in the glass book-case along the wall. In this instance, having the position of the two broken panes to go by, they were able to calculate the line of the stone, and they reckoned that the person flinging it must haves stood nearly as far off as Stanhope Street. Oct. 16. Lamentable news this morning — poor Lady Salisbury no more. "We first learned it in a note from Arbuthnot, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 187 to whom we had written, proposing to take him with us 1839. to see my mother at Dover. He tells us that the Duke is much affected, but obliged to set off in pursuance of his own appointment to Canterbury, where he is to review Lord Cardigan's regiment. The Duke puts on mourning for poor Lady Salisbury, and seals with black wax. (This is stQl going on. ISTote, Nov. 15th.) Oiit with the harriers. The Duke and I spoke of Oct. 21 Count Brunnow's negotiation, the article in the ' Quarterly ' on " British Policy," Canada, &c. I mentioned to the Duke the letters on Spain in the last ten years of Charles the Second, which I am going to publish, and related some traits out of them. How strange, I said, for example, to find the Moorish exclusion of women from table — and the men dining alone — prevailing two centuries after the close of the Moorish dominion in Spain ! " Even at present," observed the Duke, " dinner is a very different thing in. Spain from what it is in the rest of Europe — never a convivial — always a family meal. They hardly ever think of inviting any one. I have been all through the country, and I cannot remember being asked to dinner more than three times* — once at old Maria Pepa, Countess de Benavente — once at the Marquise de Santa Cruz, her daughter — and once, I think, at the Bishop of Plasencia. At the Marquise de Santa Cruz, the servants did not exactly dine at table ; but several of them, the Duma, the Aija^ and what not, came to the table to carry away their portions — that I saw myself. * Post, p. 299. i88 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH J839. " I have always a quarrel with Alava on that subject. He insists that GU Bias must have been written by a Spaniard and not a Frenchman ; and one of my reasons to the contrary is that Gil Bias speaks of dinners and suppers — tilings that don't exist in Spain — les noches dc Gamachc, and so on. * * * He also speaks of la vie de cJidtecm ; now there are hardly any chateaux in Spain, and none of them lived in. The only villa near Madrid belonged to the Countess of Benavente. I remember one chateau of Infantado, where I slept the last time I went to Madrid." ISTear Guadalaxara, Sir ? " I think it was." The Duke proceeded to comment on the character of the Spanish grandees, whom long habit has made neither more nor less than domestics of the Palace. The Eoyal Household is everything to them. And what is very curious is that they have contracted all the virtues and all the vices of la vaktaille in a private family. On the one hand, they are extremely kind, faciles a vivre, and good- natured to one another. On the other hand, they are complete liars, and destitute of principle or high feeling. As an instance how completely their hearts are centred in Madrid,* old Maria Pepa aforesaid — the Countess-Duchess of Benavente — related to the Duke how on one occasion the Queen of Charles IV. had become jealous of her for an alleged intrigue with Egmont Pignatelli, and in order to remove her had appointed her husband to nearly the highest office that the Spanish monarch can confer — the Embassy to Paris. Jamais un coup plus funeste ne fut pm'te, said Madame de Benavente, in telling the story, and * Ante, pp. 5G and 79. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 189 slie continued to speak of her exile at Paris as 1839. if it were the most gloomy and dreadful fate ia the world. In the evening we went to a little party at Deal Castle. In conversation with Captain Bridges, E.E. — a very accomplished and agreeable man — he told me that he had been at the hospital at Brussels after the battle of Waterloo, and had seen limbs amputated from several of the French wounded prisoners, but such was their enthusiastic devotion to Napoleon, that even during the operation and amidst their sufferings, they called out " Vive I'Empereur ! " A letter I had this morning from Edward Drummond Oct. 32, informed me of the sudden death of Lord Brougham, being thrown from liis pony-chaise and kicked by the horse in Westmoreland. It was but nine o'clock, but I immediately hastened with my letter to Walmer Castle. I found the Duke sitting to Lucas. He told me that he had received the same lamentable news from two other c[uarters, and there seemed no doubt whatever as to its truth. We were both greatly shocked, and agreed that the fatal close of Mr. Huskisson was the only parallel among our statesmen to the present disaster. Happy news this morning. Lord Brougham come to oct. 23. life agaia ! Another case of Castle Bachrent, according "''*■ ^*' to the Duke's expression the other day.* We dined at the Castle, meeting there Mrs. Ellison, Lord Bute, Captains Fisher, Watts and Bridges, and Colonel Dancey. * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part 11.), i. p. 243 ; ante, p. 183. igo NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. The Duke told me that, as he had heard himself. Lord Brougham was the author of the report upon his own death. The conversation after dinner turned upon Sir John Sherbrooke and the strange story of an apparition seen by him and Wynyard when these two alone were sitting together after dinner in a mess-room at Cape Breton. The Duke said that the time alleged for the story was when hard drinking was very much the fashion among officers, and that in his opinion all that the two gentlemen really did see was another bottle of rum — or another bottle of whisky. Somebody present remarked that this was changing it from a story of ghosts into a story of spirits. The Duke proceeded : " Sherbrooke was a very good officer, but the most passionate man I think I ever knew. * * * I remember the day after we took Oporto, his getting into a terrible rage before me about nothing with my Portuguese interpreter.* He was standing with his hands behind his back, and said at last to the man : It is lucky for you, Sir, I can tell you, that I am now in presence of the Commander of the Forces and vsith my hands behind me ; and I can tell you, you had better not wait until I bring them into the advanced guard ! I laughed ; but the interpreter thought it best upon the whole to take liimself off." The Duke also told us how Sir John Sherbrooke, when previously serving in Sicily under General Fox, had with the other officers attended a great funeral at one of the churches. There were several enormous wax torches, each nearly as tall as a man, to bear in the procession, and one of these was offered to each of the English officers, which was intended as a compliment * Fost, p. 323. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 191 and mark of respect. But Sherbrooke was seized with 1839. sudden indignation at tke torch beiug offered him ; he seized it, and knocked the man down -with it, to the grievous discomposure of the company. Out with the Duke hare-hunting, or rather hunting Oct. 36. without hares, for there are hardly any this season. Out conversation turned upon patronage and the unpleasant circumstances attending the disposal of it. The Duke told me that at the Tower there were ofScers called " Yeomen "Warders," that were always sold by his predecessors, Lord Hastings, Lord Cornwallis, &c., each for oOOl. — this money being regularly entered as part of the fixed emoluments of the place. The Duke, however, resolved to bestow these ofBces at his selection among the class of deserving non-commissioned officers — those especially who have not half-pay, or are not provided for by the regular advantages of the service. One of them he gave to a sergeant who had behaved well in the Bristol riots of 1831. These details, 1 observed, were told by him not at all as seeming to claim any merit to his conduct, but merely as explaining how so much patronage was still at his disposal, and why he was tormented with so many applications for it. We dined at "Wahner Castle with a small party to oct. 29. meet Lady Charlotte Greville and Lady E. Egerton ; Nov. i. they arrived from London to-day and will embark at Dover the day after to-morrow. The Duke walked over to pay us a visit ; next day he and I rode out together to the harriers. He has now two or three little places that are vacant in his gift — 192 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. one at the Tower, one at the Charterhouse (I think)' and one at Dover ; and he complains grievously of the numerous and unreasonable applications he receives even from parties to whom he is an utter stranger. They ought to remember, he says, that a man cannot have been nearly fifty years in active service without knowing plenty of fair claims from his own personal knowledge. They ought to remember also that his patronage is not that of Parliamentary influence, " it was won by my bloody hands ! " he must confer it without regard to solicitation and according to his own sense of merit, especially among non-commissioned officers, " to encourage men to do their duty and make them feel that my eye is upon them." In the army in Spain it was an understood thing that the officers were not to solicit appointments, but that the Duke was to select according to his own judg^ ment of their merits. " If any one ever did solicit them, I generally turned to the right about, and gave him no answer. Tims on the field of Sauroren I remember Hare coming up to me and saying that he hoped I would put him on my staff again. I turned away without any answer, and the officers by, who knew my rule in these cases, all laughed out." The Duke added that in his opinion all solicita- tions are unfair, since they put the person applying in a more prominent position than perhaps his merit deserves as compared to those who do not apply. From the warmth with which the Duke enlarged upon this subject it was evident — as I have observed on many other circumstances — how painful and harass- ing he finds it with his kind feelings to have to give a refusal. Many of the Cinque-Port smaller offices he does not THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 193 now fill tip, as the Govei'nment have ceased to pay the 1839. salaries. They used to be included in the army estimates. He had arranged with Spring Eice that he should state to the Government what offices he considered really efficient and desirable for the due defence of the coast; but when accordingly he did write to Lord Howick as Secretary of "War, Lord Howick never gave him any answer. " What can I do more ? I cannot compel a man to answer." What with these solicitations and other letters the Duke has now — indeed always — a great mass of business to do. He told me that all Friday last he had been engaged at the Court of Lord Manage at Dover — " and as in England they can never have any business without a dinner," he had afterwards to dine with them, and so lost the evening in which he would otherwise have -uTitten. To-morrow (Tuesday) is to be employed exactly in the same manner with the Court of Dover Harbour Direction. All Saturday he was writing, and all Sunday, except the morning service at church and Ms ^isits in the afternoon to Lady Mahon and Lady Bute ; working away in the evenings also ; and he was certain that on each of these two days he had sent off not less than fifty letters ! His plan is — not having nearly franks enough — to inclose these letters in parcels of four or five each, and send them either to his house- keeper at Apsley House or to his secretary if in London, that they might be put into the twopenny post. * * * "Everybody writes to me for everything. They know the Duke of Wellington is said to be a good-natured man, and so at the least they will get an answer. " When I left the command of the army, I declared that I never would interfere in any appointment or 194 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. other military matter, fcnless when applied to for my opinion and advice — aiH I never have. I have very often stated my views and given my advice — but never unless I was applied to." I observed to him that all these applications were the harder, since this was the only period of the year when he might expect to be allowed some rest and recreation. "Eest! Every other animal — even a donkey — a costermonger's donkey — is allowed some rest, but the Duke of Wellington never ! There is no help for it. As long as I am able to go on, they will put the saddle upon my back and make me go." We talked of Mr. Canning. He told me that when lie was opposed to Mr. Canning as Prime Minister after Lord Liverpool's illness, George the Fourth had taunted him with having previously urged and enforced upon Mm Mr. Canning's admission to the Cabinet and lead of the House of Commons after Lord Londonderry's •death ; although there was, in fact, no inconsistency between the two opinions. Story how Mr. Canning first obtained his ascendency with his royal master. Objections to the recognition of the South American States^difficulty as to the King's consenting to receive their envoys — the Duke's question to Mr. Canning as they were breaking up in Cabinet for the summer — "What shall we do about presenting these brown gentlemen ? " — when Mr. Canning said. Oh ! I have got over that difficulty, and I will show you how ; and taking him down to his room, he showed him the letters of the Duke of A and Lord P , a very curious story. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 195 My mother and sister came over to dine and sleep at 1839. Walmer Castle, and the Duke invited us and a party to meet them. We had also Prince Esterhazy, who is to embark to-morrow morning at Dover. The Duke talked with much feeling of the Chartist revolt in Monmouthshire,* as announced in this morn- ing's post, and of the general disorganisation and decline of the British empire. " Oh ! if I were twenty years younger ! " raising both his hands. Dinner at Walmer Castle to meet Lord and Lady Nov. 13. Hardwicke, who had come over for the night from Dover. The Duke gave us a full account of the ISTewport revolt. There is one thing, he said, always to be borne in mind in this country, and that cannot be impressed too much — though in France it does not prevail, at least not at all to the same degree — that whenever people do what they know is wrong, and against the law, they become most terribly frightened and are ready to run away. How else can you account for thirty men putting to flight six thousand ? At the experimental firing beyond Sandown Castle Nov. 14. the Duke rode there, but walked back with Lady Mahon. He pointed out a small house in the town of Deal, with an open space before it, where he said he had seen Lord Hill for the first time — Lord Hill living in it — and the Duke then quartered at Walmer. Out hunting with the Duke. Case of Captain Drew kov. 18- in Canada, and hardship of his being not only left with- * 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), i. p. 249. 196 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. out promotion, but ill-treated for courageously doing "^ his duty. Painful contrast between " the rules of old England " and " the rules of new England— of reformed England;! " The Duke spoke about a very curious memorial to the Diet at Frankfort on the German Bursclienscliaft and their conspiracies and outbreaks since 1830, which appeared in the Times about ten days ago. " Is it not curious," he added, " that all the mischief in Germany seems to have its rise in the Universities ; while in this country we look to the Universities, and to the state of feeling there, as one of our main sources of security ? " The Duke proceeded to explain the causes of this- difference. Eirst, in Germany the young men do not reside in the colleges — they are removed from all moral training or control — and open only to secular instruction, as is now aimed at for the English schools. Secondly, the professors and tutors are paid, not by fixed salaries, but by optional fees on attending their lectures; they consequently are dependent on the young men instead of the young men being dependent on them. What benefits, he said in conclusion, have accrued to us from these points of difference ! Yet these very diiferences it is now earnestly laboured in this country to do away with ! Hov. 23. I leave the preceding sheet exactly as I wrote it down in the course of the same afternoon, and little dreaming of the sad and eventful scene that was to follow : but now, after several days of deep anxiety, looking back with mournful interest to this conversa- tion, and wisliing to enshrine in my memory even its smallest details, I recollect also that, on joining the THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 197 Duke that morning and making some remark on the 1839. weather, he answered — ""^ " I think it was Charles the Second who said that in ■our climate one may go out every day in the year — and so one may, if one will only consent to be wet through • — or blown to pieces — or starved to death ! " It was certainly very cold : the Duke took out and put on a fur collar round his throat ; and it rained at intervals, when he called for his umbrella from his groom and held it over his head as he rode. Mr. Latham, of Dover, having joined us for a short time, the Duke shortly explained to him his plan to make silver as well as gold a legal tender for large sums. On this, as on every other subject, he conversed with his usual sagacity of thought and clearness of expression. He seemed unwilling or unable to ride fast, often checking his horse with a jerk when it attempted to bound On, but I had observed the same thing before whenever we rode this autumn ; and we returned home at a gentle trot. I parted with him at his own gate. About twenty minutes before six the same evening I was sitting in my little study, ha\ing just concluded some wilting, and amongst the rest the record of this very conversation, when I heard the front door bell ring violently. I was wondering who it was could call at that late hour, when I was startled with, " The Duke wishes to see you immediately." Lady Mahon being in the passage and hearing this, ran out to the lobby as I did, and asked quickly — it was the Duke's own foot- man Wniiam — whether the Duke was ill ? The man very discreetly answered only, " I believe his Grace is not very well," and hurried off; but Ids countenance betrayed him, poor fellow, for he looked as white as a sheet. igS NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. I ran off at my utmost speed to the Castle, rushed over the drawbridge and up the staircase, and entering the Duke's own room I found him just laid from the floor on his camp-bed and apparently insensible ; his face like monumental marble in colour and in fixedness, his eyes closed, his jaw dropped, and his breath loud and gasping. Wet cloths had been applied to his head. JSTever did I behold such an awful sight, or such anxious faces as were then turned towards him. Kendall and Collins were there, and Dr. MacArthur, who had arrived, he said, about five minutes before me. It might be a quarter of an hour afterwards when Mr. Hulke the surgeon arrived, and in another half-hour, I think, Captain Watts. Prom the account of the servants, hastily imparted then, and more deliberately related afterwards, it ap- pears that the Duke, on returning from his. ride, had written two or three notes, one amongst others (which I have seen since) to my mother at Dover, asking her and my sister to dinner for the Wednesday following, when he had already engaged us and some more, and this note he had given to Collins to forward. He then went into the drawing-room, where he read the papers, and afterwards returned to his own room where he re- sumed his MSS. In a little while he rang the bell, and desired that Dr. MacArthur should be sent for. This was accordingly done. In a little while after, his bell rang again, and Kendall answering it, found him with his lower jaw dropped and moving so that notwithstanding his efforts to speak he could not explain what he wanted. He then signed to Kendall to leave the room — a sign which Kendall durst not disobey, especially as there was an idea that the Duke might only be suffering under the tooth-ache. Still, however, he was much THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 199 alajmed, and remained in the passage behind the door, 1839. imtil hearing a heavy sound he ran in and found the Duke just fallen to the floor. Kendall hastened to him and also rang the bell violently. It was answered by "William, the Duke's own man, who assisted Kendall in lifting the Duke from the floor and laying him upon the bed. Collins, too, came almost immediately. They then desired William to send another message to hasten Dr. MacArthur, and to run himself to summon me. There was no relation or other especial friend of his Grace at hand for them to send to besides myself and the Doctor ; no visitor was staying in the Castle ; Lord Maryborough had gone up for a couple of days to London from Deal, and Lord Fitzroy Somerset had lately removed with his family from Dover. It appears also that the Duke had given a dinner on the Saturday previous to the officers of the Artillery at Deal ; he had then eaten heartily, as indeed I happened to hear before his attack from Colonel King, who was one of the party. But on the Sunday and the Monday morning he had scarcely partaken of any but the most scanty food, his breakfast being as usual only tea and dry bread, and very little of that — no luncheon — and as to dinner, the servants told me that on Sunday he had been but a few minutes at table, picking up a few pieces from his plate with his fork and left hand, but keeping liis right hand in his pocket. On the small raised desk on which the Duke usually writes, I observed some note-paper, and his beginning of a note which they told me he had been engaged upon when seized with his attack. In about half an hour, or perhaps more, after he had begun to rally, and I to become a Uttle less alarmed as to immediate danger, I thought it right to take up and read this note, as it 200 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. might have contained the direction whicia he had wished to give his servant when he rung the bell, and found he could not speak. The words I read were — /IK if f/efl'l ^^o4oiicl <=J^ awi 'no-i and there it stopped. The writing was much less dis- tinct than usual, and the latter part of the word "Colonel" had passed off beyond the bounds of the sheet, and was written on the paper below. I showed it to Dr. MacArthur, to Collins, and Kendall, who agreed with me that in all probability it was meant for Colonel Munro, whom the Duke expected that day to dinner from Dover with a party of officers. I conclude his Grace meant to write that he was not very well, and would not be able to receive them. But all this is only conjecture. I also determined that I would write to Dr. Hume, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 201 asking him to come down immediately (which we were 1839. sure of his doing with the utmost zeal and readiness), and that I would send my letter by express to London. Kendall proposed to take it up himself, but I urged that he might be of great use here, in sharing with Collins the personal attendance on his Grace, and especially the watching at night, and it was therefore settled at last that the Duke's coachman should take it. Accordingly I sent to ha-\'e a post-chaise from the inn brought round to the door, and wliile it was coming I sat down to write my letter. I wrote it, I remember, on the Duke's own desk, side by side with his bed, and often anxiously turning my eyes from my paper to gaze at his features — now pallid and prostrate — yet still how lofty, noble, and commanding ! I asked Dr. MacArthur to add a postscript, but he very judiciously deter- mined to delay it until the last moment, when the post-chaise should be actually at the door and the express prepared — when he hop6d — and God be thanked it proved so — to announce some great improvement. My letter was very short ; at the end I requested Dr. Hume to communicate it to Sir Astley Cooper and Lord Fitzroy Somerset, if he thought it best, but to mention it to no one else — a superfluous caution to such a man. Lord Douro I knew was in Scotland, and Lord Charles in Canada. Another question of less importance, but still that pressed for decision, was what to do with the officers from Dover, who were expected to dinner at seven. Tearing as we did that the Duke might be in present . danger, I wished that the dinner should not take place, and that the gentlemen should be told on arriving that the Duke was too ill to receive them. As he gradually rallied, however, it was truly and thoughtfully urged 202 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. by Collins and Kendall that such a course would be sure to raise the most alarming reports of his illness,, and perhaps even of his death. We had not yet quite settled the point, when, as I shall state presently, it was decided by the Duke himself. I come now to the Duke's own state. He began tO' recover from his attack by slow but clear and undoubted degrees. The servants had been in the very greatest alarm as to immediate results, and Dr. MacArthur- feared at first that his Grace had lost the use of his left side. As he gradually rallied, however — recovering his- powers of speech and of remembrance — it appeared that none of his limbs were in the least affected, that the- mind displayed all its usual clearness, and that beyond all doubt the attack was not in any degree of a paralytic or apoplectic kind. Dr. MacArthur ascribed it to an affection of the stomach exhausted by two days of almost complete inanition, added to a long ride on a cold bleak day. Indeed, as the Doctor remarked, for several months he may be said to have generally pur- sued a system of starving — eating seldom, and very sparingly ; and he had left off wine almost altogether — on most days taking none, and then only half a glass. From the state of the pulse and other symptoms, Dr. MacArthur decided even from the first that it would be- wrong to take any blood from him ; and here let me say of that excellent and able and kind-hearted man, that it was truly touching that night to see him combine as- he did deep personal feeling with perfect professional calmness. He stood there — his eyes brimming with tears, yet never even for an instant losing his cool judgment and entire presence of mind. I may observe also, although by anticipation, that when the medical men from London arrived, they THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 203 declared — and I heard it more than once from each of 1839. them alone — that they entirely concurred in Dr. Mac- "^^ Arthur's view, and had they heen here would have done j)recisely as he did up to the time of their arrival ; above all, had the Duke been bled or cupped at the outset, th« consequences would have been, they thought, of the most fatal Idnd. Mr. Hulke, the surgeon, took the same view of the case as Dr. MacArthur, and his conduct appeared to me to show throughout skill, discretion, and zeal. As to the servants — Kendall and Collins above all — nothino: could exceed their attention and anxiety on this and the following days ; indeed, I have observed not merely on this but on many former though common occasions, how warm is the attachment of this whole household to its master. Xot many fathers, I really believe, are so much beloved by their children as the Duke is by liis servants. But the Duke himself that evening I never can forget. I can conceive notlaing more high-minded — nay, heroic — than his whole demeanour on coming to himself — equally free on the one hand from levity or careless- ness, or on the other from any shade of personal fear. His chief anxiety seemed to be for others, not himself — to spare alarm to his friends — to avoid disappoint- ment to his guests. Both his speech and his sight returned only by degrees : thus his first words were wholly inarticulate, and thus at first he only discerned Dr. MacArthur, who was bending over him ; and it was not till a little time after that he also recognised me, who was standing further off ; and then — let me indulge the gratifying recollection — he addressed me by my name, stretched out his hand, and pressed mine. His voice had then become perfectly clear. He desired that 304 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. the dinner should go on, and that Colonel Munro (and I think he also named Captain Watts) should be re- quested to receive the company in his stead. He ac- quiesced in our sending for Dr. Hume, but said he hoped that no alarm that was not necessary would be given. After a while he asked Dr. Mac Arthur whether it would not be proper to take some blood from him ? The Doctor replied that it would not at present, and the Duke at once acquiesced. He afterwards proposed a footbath, which Dr. MacArthur said should be given him before he went to bed. I think I see him now ; and I feel that I cannot as I should describe his manner ■ — so gentle and so kind, and yet at the same time so perfectly firm and composed. In giving a short account of his attack, the Duke said that he first felt its approach when, earlier in the after- noon, he was reading a newspaper, and found it, not- withstanding his endeavours, slip from his hands. He then tried " to walk it off." That day he had eaten nothing but a morsel of dry bread at breakfast, and on returning from his ride a fragment of an Abernethy biscuit, which he broke from a little parcel of them placed on his bureau. Yet, though his system of starving and the consequent exhaustion of stomach were no doubt, as the physicians declared, the proximate causes of the attack, we cannot, alas ! conceal from ourselves that it is a repetition of last February's coming back with aggravated symptoms and proceeding much further than before. Even at the first Dr. MacArthur had provided some ]3randy-and-water, of which he gave the Duke several spoonfuls. He now added some warm broth, which revived the Duke exceedingly — another sign that his attack had (proximately at least) proceeded from his THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 205 inanition. Dr. J\IacArthur also wrote — and gave to 1839". Mr. H\ilke to have prepared — a prescription of pills for the Duke to take after he was put to bed ; they con- tained, I think, four grains of calomel, and a draught was to follow. According to the Duke's direction about the dinner, we had requested that Colonel Munro when he came might be stopped in the passage behind the door, sa that Dr. MacArthur and I might go out and speak with him. We did so accordingly, and I remember we each took one of his hands and held it as we told him our tale. The gallant veteran was deeply affected, and went in to dinner with a heavy heart. He and the rest took their departure about nine, after renewed and most anxious inquiries. Wlien I saw him next day as he called at the Castle, he told me what a mournful party it had been, and how many of the young officers invited had looked forward to seeing the Duke, and perhaps hearing him drawn out on his campaigns, as to the proudest day of their lives. Some time after the officers had gone in, something to eat was brought for Dr. MacArthur and myself, and our cloth was hastily laid on a corner of the Duke'S' writing-table near his bed. Our little meal was soon despatched. The Doctor resolved to remain all night at the Castle, as I did also. Eooms were accordingly prepared for us — for him the room alongside the Duke's, and for me the room nearly opposite the Duke's and exactly opposite Dr. MacArthur's. This room I occu- pied also during the three following nights. The Duke meanwhile had been very decidedly recovering. Even some time before. Dr. MacArthur had expressed his conviction that there was no longer the same apprehension of present danger. The medi- 2o6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. cines haviug arrived, Dr. MacArthur decided that the Duke should now take them and his footbath, and afterwards he put to bed. I then left the room. The Duke, as I was told, was able in a great measure to undress alone. The Duke passed not a very good night ; he slept but little, and, as Kendall told me, moaned heavily at intervals — not loudly however, for I did not hear it, though I lay with my door ajar, listening anxiously for every sound. Dr. MacArthur was up to look in at him several times in the night, and either Collins or Kendall also (or both) was constantly on the watch in the passage. All of us were on foot before six o'clock. iTov. 19. Tuesday. — It appeared that the Duke was better this morning. Nevertheless Dr. MacArthur prevailed upon him to remain in bed and not to ask for his letters. I did not see him, but he sent to me requesting that I would write to each of his expected guests for "Wednes- day, expressing his regret that being ill from " an affec- tion of the stomach " he would not be able to receive them. Accordingly I got from Collins the list of the party, and wrote to each — to my mother, to Lady Willoughby d'Eresby, to Lady Hardwicke, and to several more. He observed to Dr. MacArthur on this occasion that I could bear witness how very well he had been in the morning before, when he rode with me. It is remarkable that on this occasion, when inquiring about me and being told by Dr. MacArthur that I had passed the night at the Castle, he expressed no surprise. In the same way I was afterwards assured both by Lord Fitzroy Somerset and by Sir Astley Cooper that when each of them first went in to see him on their THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 207 arrival, though he was not at all aware of their having 1839. been sent for, he expressed great pleasure hut no sur- ""^ prise — making no remark, and putting no question as to the motive of their coming to Walmer. Tliis morning Colonel Munro and afterwards Lord Hardwicke galloped over from Dover, in great anxiety to see Dr. MacArthur and myself, and to make inquiries. Lord Hardwicke told me that the most alarming and exaggerated reports were already rife at Dover. To guard against theu- spreading in London, he with great forethought and judgment wrote the letter which after- wards 'appeared in Wednesday's Standard. On my part, I wrote as many letters as my time and strength possibly allowed to the Duke's principal friends, informing them in more or less detail of his attack, but assuring them, by Dr. MacArthur's permission and authority, that there was no prospect of danger at present. I wrote to Lord Douro, Mr. Arbuthnot, Sir H. Hardinge, Sir Eobert Peel, Lord Salisbury, Colonel Ourwood, and several more. I had reckoned that if Dr. Hume were able to set off at once and to travel rapidly, he might perhaps be here so early as two. Dr. MacArthur thought it could scarcely be before three. At two, however. Dr. Mac- Arthur, Captain Watts, and I took our station on the ramparts, where with anxious eyes we watched the London road. It was with great dehght that about half-past two we observed the much-desired post-chaise spurring rapidly down Walmer Hill. I ran to the outer gate, and in another moment was warmly greeted by Dr. Hume, who eagerly jumped out, having hastened down here without a moment's delay. But as the Duke had lately fallen asleep. Dr. Hume resolved not to dis- 2o8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. turb him, and did not see him till he woke about twO' hours after. Dr. MacArthur, who was much exhausted, shortly afterwards went home for a few hours. He did not again dine or sleep at the Castle, but never failed to' come two or three times a day, as often as was requisite, for visits and consultations. This afternoon Lord Maryborough, who had been in London, arrived at Deal Castle ; he had heard no tidings of the Duke's illness until his arrival from Lady Mary- borough, and immediately hastened over with great anxiety to consult Dr. Hume. Dr. Hume and I dined tete-a-tetc. Shortly afterwards arrived Sir Astley Cooper, and in the course of the nighfc Lord Pitzroy Somerset. In the present state of the Duke's symptoms, the three physicians this evening judged it desirable to take from him four or five ounces of blood by cupping. This was accordingly done. Nov. 20. Wednesday.— The Duke passed a better night ; never- theless his medical attendants apprehended some symptoms of fever, which they would have considered of very evil import. They held several conferences and appeared in great anxiety. The Duke, however, was so much better as to rise and dress, to call for his letters, read them all, and answer several. No less than seven or eight in his- writing went by to-night's post. One was addressed to A> Greville, and another to Mrs. Cross — his housekeeper — both at Apsley House. The address of all the letters, with the single exception of Mrs. Cross's, was in his- usual firm, clear hand — without any apparent alteration. The physicians were very anxious to see the Duke THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 209 again at Apsley House. He has received a summons 1839. to the Council on Saturday, and intends to be present at it, and to set out from hence on Friday. This after- noon we, in our little way, held a sort of council in the drawing-room, consisting of the three physicians, Mr. Hulke, Lord Maryborough, Lord Fitzroy Somerset, and myself. It was suggested to send by express for Sir H. Halford and Dr. Chambers — not from any doubt or division as to the course of treatment, but in order to obtain their sanction and additional authority for the intended journey to London. After some discussion, however, the idea, urged at first from the kindest and most considerate motives, was, I think I may say, unanimously over-ruled. Lord Maryborough showed, I think, very great judgment, good sense, and decision in the view he took of the question, and I cordially con- curred in every word he spoke. The party at dinner consisted of Dr. Hume, Sir Astley Cooper, Lord Fitzroy Somerset, and myself. Thursday. — A very good night and a very decided Nov. 21. improvement this morning. The Duke is quite free from feverish symptoms, and much recruited in strength. He wrote many letters to-day ; amongst others, to my mother, to Lady Hardwicke, and to Lady Willoughby, resjrettinc; that he had not been able to receive them. That to my mother I have since seen ; it is as follows, written in a perfectly clear and regular hand. " "Walmek Castle, Nov. 21, 1839. " My deae Lady Stanhope, " I was very sorry to be so unwell as to be unable to receive you on Wednesday, particularly as I am sum- moned to attend a Council at Buckingham Palace on p 2IO NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. Saturday, supposed to be on the subject-matter of the Queen's marriage with Prince Albert.* I am appre- hensive, tlierefore, that I not only shall not have the pleasure of receiving you here again in this season, but that I shall possibly lose my wager. " Pray remember me most kindly to Lady Wilhel- mine, and " Believe me " Ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington." The wager to which the Duke refers was a guinea — betted about a month ago — that the Queen's marriage would not be settled and no message upon it sent to Parliament before the 12th of February next. He has always been very decidedly of opinion that the rumours about the Queen and Prince Albert had no foundation in fact — or at least were greatly premature. This day and the preceding the Duke, as I was in- formed, regulated his household affairs, paying his bills, &c., as usual before leaving Walmer. Captain Watts also told me that the Duke sent for him in the course of the day and put into his hands a sum of money for his accustomed winter donations to the poor, and sub- scriptions to charities of this place. Early this afternoon the Duke left his room, and I saw him for the first time since Monday evening. He looked better than I expected — not so well as I wished — very thin and worn in the face, and his eyes not as usual. But he seemed in very good spirits, and spoke of his health with much cheerfulness and confidence. ' He told me that even in the morning of Monday, while * An account of this memorable Council, at wkloh 83 members were present, will be found in the Queen's Journal, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 211 riding with me, lie had felt " a cramp " on one side. 1839. His dress was as usual — the black suit which he has worn since poor Lady Salisbury's mourning. I first met the Duke in the passage, where he stopped for some time conversing with me, till Sir Astley came up and reminded him of the draught. He afterwards sat with us som_e time in the drawing-room, and finally he and I walked up and down that room together, he with his hat on, to guard against the cold, and pacing round for exercise. His step was firm and steady — decidedly more so than before his attack. We were left alone by Sir Astley, as he wished to drive off to Dover for two or three hours, but to return to dinner. As he took leave of the Dulie for this purpose, the latter said, drawing himself up, " You will tell them at Dover that you have seen me walking — and well — instead of lying speechless at your feet." This was an allusion (the only one I heard him make) to the article in yesterday's Times, which represents him as speechless for twelve hours. After some time the Duke retired again to his room, but at dinner he joined us ; the party being himself, the two medical gentlemen. Lord Fitzroy, and me. He ate a little soup, fish, and meat, but sparingly, and he stayed till about nine, when he bade us good-night, saying with a smile that it was quite late enough for an invalid. During the whole afternoon and evening his conversation was marked in all respects by his usual force, perspicuity, and clearness — speaking on the Queen's marriage — the political effects that might follow from it — his wager on the subject — his journey to London — the probable appearance of the Council — or any other topic that occurred, and he seemed through- out kind without effort and cheerful without excitement. P 2 213 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. In the afternoon — but not so much, if at all, in the evening — I thought I observed in him a very slight tremulous motion of his whole frame at short regular intervals — apparently vibrating with his pulse. iTov. 22. Friday. — Lord Fitzroy went off this morning at eight to catch the day mail at Canterbury. About an hour later the Duke came to breakfast with Dr. Hume, Sir Astley and myself. His appearance and conversation were as yesterday — thin and pale in the face, but cheerful and serene. Dr. Hume and Sir Astley had ordered a post-chaise to be at the door at the same time as the Duke's britzka, and intended to follow close behind. They stepped in almost immediately after breakfast, so as to be ready for him whenever he started ; the Duke, on the contrary, after kindly taking leave of me and asking when we should be in London, went back to his own room, where he remained about twenty minutes longer. Meanwhile I went down to the open passage leading from the first door at the foot of the staircase to the portal of the Castle, and there I found Captains Fisher and Watts standing to take leave of his Grace. The britzka was drawn up under the portal ; the post-chaise, with the two gentlemen in it, stood beyond the drawbridge. I could not resist remaining also for one more look and one more word of my dear departing chief. After some suspense he came forth in his cloak (it was then a c|uarter to ten) ; I offered my arm, but he declined it, and walked with a firm step and erect bearing towards the carriage. Kindly and cheerfully he greeted the two captains ; but I thought, and so did Captain Fisher, as; he afterwards told me, that his lip slightly quivered, and his whole countenance showed strong feeling at THE DUKE OF \YELLINGTON. 213 thus departing from his Castle. Kendall, who preceded 1839. him, had sprung upon the box, and his own groom, bending forwards for orders when the Duke was already seated, received directions to bring the horses to London. I kept my eyes on those revered features as long as I could ; but the carriage then darted forward, and I saw him no more. I afterwards learnt from Mademoiselle Brun that the Duke stopped at the corner-house of Walmer village, and got out to take leave of Lady Wilton's children. They had received so many kindnesses from him, and bore him so much attachment, that all three — poor little things — ran to the door when he wished to go again, and attempted to bar his way. Captaiu Fisher, Captain Watts, and I were mean- while slowly walking homewards from the Castle. We kept our eyes fixed on the brow of Walmer Hill, for another sight of the carriage that bore away the object of many anxious hopes and prayers. After some delay, which we could not explain at the time, but which was owing to the 'sisit to the children, we again discerned the carriage and the post-chaise close behind it, moving on like two dark dots in the distance, along the edge of Walmer HOI. We watched them until beyond the mill of Upper Deal, when they sunk below the verge of the horizon ; then turning round, we observed that the standard of Walmer Castle was already struck — as it always is in the absence of its Warden. We looked on for some time ia silence ; we felt, as we looked, that our bosoms were swelling with emotion, and our voices faltered when first we spoke again. At length, with an effort, we aU. three moved on together. The Duke, on going to town, was enabled to attend 214 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1839. the Privy Council, at whicli her Majesty the Queen ■"^ announced her intended marriage. LONDON. 1840. The first time I saw the Duke, after Walmer, was January 15 — the day after I came to town, and the day before the meeting of Parliament. I had called on him in the morning, but finding that he was shortly going out on horseback, I did not ask to see him. After- wards, however, I met him on Constitution Hill, riding down to a meeting at Sir Eobert Peel's. I was on foot, but he reined in his horse, and walked a little while alongside of me, conversing on politics. In the course of the ensuing month, I saw him frequently at his house in the mornings, on public matters. He felt, as I did, most earnestly on the question of privilege.* I remember his telling me once, with great animation, that if privilege were thus to be set above law, he would sooner have to live in North America than in England ; for though in North America the law might be worse framed, it does at least make itself supreme and paramount. On Wednesday the 22nd I think we were to have dined with him, but Lady Mahon went alone, I being detained in the House, until too late to dress, by one of the debates on privilege. Tel). 13. On Thursday morning the Duke wrote me a note, asking us to dinner on the following Saturday. This day he was engaged to dine with Mrs. Mitchell ; but according to his frequent practice, since his illness at * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.), i. p. 270. It related to the precedence of Prince Albert. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 215 Walmer, lie made his own meal at two o'clock. Im- 1840. mediately afterwards Hardinge was announced, with. ^^ whom the Duke had some animated conversation on the Xaval and ^Military Commission. He then mounted his horse, and went to visit first Lady "Wilton, and afterwards Lady Burghersh. On returning from the latter in Harley Street, he became so ill that on reaching Apsley House it was necessary to lift him from his horse.* When brought back to his o-\vn room, he had a recurrence of his Walmer attack, or rather, alas ! this time a succession of attacks. There were no less than eighteen com-ulsions, in all, before one the next morning; many of them fright- fully severe, so that at some moments no one present thought it possible he could have survived them. Four physicians were in attendance (namely, Dr. Hume, Sir Astley Cooper, Sir Henry Halford, and Dr. Chambers), and nearly all the members of his family. I did not hear of this grievous calamity till early next morning by a note from Kendall; and almost immediately afterwards Douro, who had been all night at his father's, was so kind as to call on me. I passed great part of this day and next at Apsley House — not, however, seeing the Duke. But I shall enlarge no further on these deeply affecting recollections. The Duke, as at Walmer, recovered day by day without relapse, but by slow degrees. Arbuthnot arrived from Xorthamptonshire to Apsley House so early as the Friday evening. During his convalescence, as I heard, his attention and anxiety on public affairs — and on none more strongly than privilege — continued unabated. The first person, I believe, whom he admitted to see him * 'The GreviUe Memoirs' (Part n.), i. p. 267. 3i6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. after his illness, except his physicians, his near re- lations, and Arbuthnot, was Lord Lyndhurst, -with whom he wished to confer on the progress of the privilege question. The first time too that I saw him — which was not till several days later, and in Arbuthnot's room, into which lie walked — ^I spoke to him only on that subject, and perceived how much solicitude it gave him. About the close of the month he went to Strathfield- saye to entertain the Judges, and remained a few days absent from town. Mar. 10. Tuesday. — We dined with the Duke en tres ijetit eomite ; only the Wiltons and Arbuthnot ; and we afterwards proceeded to his box at the Opera. The Duke looked ill, alas ! and ate very little. , " L' exactitude est la politesse des Bois is a saying I have more than once heard from Louis XVIIL, and sometimes he descanted upon and explained it. He was so faithful to it himself, that being wheeled in to dinner in his chair, the doors were thrown open, and the chair was seen to enter always while the clock was actually striking six. " The King of Prussia carried this good rule to an opposite extreme ; he was apt to be a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes before the time he had named ; thus at the reviews in Champagne, I remember we had always to be galloping after him as anticipating Ms own hours." Eeferring to the discussion the night before, which Lord Howick had provoked relative to the pay of the troops in India, the Duke observed that according to the reports in the papers, none of the speakers had rightly apprehended the real facts of the question, and THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 217 lie proceeded to explain to us very clearly and fully 1840. the system of the shroffs or money-changers of India. ""^ Wednesday. — A meeting at Sir E. Peel's this Mar. 18. morning, where I met the Duke, and from which I went home with him. Politics. In the evening we dined at Apsley House; the party being, besides the Duke and Axbuthnot, the Duchess of Cambridge and Princess Augusta, Lord and Lady Wilton, and Lord Pitzroy Somerset. The Duke of Cambridge was absent, having to preside at some public dinner. I thought the Duke looking better, and in excellent spirits. When we left liim about eleven he was pre- paring to go to Lady Jersey's ball. After dinner, the conversation turned to the plays at Paris twenty-five years ago, and to the excellent acting of Potier and Fleury. The Duke told us of a very amusing piece he had seen in 1815, L'Ecole des Bourgeois, where some grandee, wishing to marry a citizen's daughter, is blown up, by one of his letters to a friend being intercepted and read aloud at the citizen's family circle. Enfin, mon cher Dice, c'est denicdn queje m' cncanaille. The French seemed to think that they had a triumph over us whenever they could make us go and see Les Anglcdses pour rire, and were much surprised that we could laugh at the drollery as much — or more — than they. In confirmation of this. Lord Pitzroy told us he remembered a French lady turning round in a box to a young English officer during Les Anglcdses pour rire — it was just after Waterloo — and asking him: Is it possible you can laugh at this ? — ^Yes, madam, those who win may laugh ! 2i8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. "They tried too/' said the Duke, "to put up my back one night at the palace, at the representation of "Adelaide Du Guesclin." There were divers hits intended against U tyran de Camlray ! Several people came up to me afterwards to urge me on : C'est horrible ! Comment peiit-on se fermettre ces Glioses la ! But I was determined not to be offended, and told them that I had not heard it distinctly, and that I did not know French well enough to catch such allusions." ***** Of Madame de Stael. " She was a most agreeable woman, if you only Icept luT light, and away from politics. But that was not easy. She was always trying to come to matters of State. I have said to her more than once : Je deteste parler politique; and she answered, Parler politigue pour moi c'est vivre." * * * * * "She and I were great friends. She sent to see me on her death-bed, but I was not just then at Paris." ***** Adverting to the richness of the old French Court, the Duke fixed his eyes for a moment on the two full- lengths before him of Louis XVIII. and Charles X., each in stately robes. " How much better after all," he said, laughing, "these two look -with theiv Jleurs-de-lis and Sciint-Esprits, than the two corporals behind, or the fancy dress between ! " (The two corporals are full-lengths of Alexander of Eussia and the King of Prussia, and the fancy dress — over the fire-place — is George the Fourth, by Wilkie, in the Highland kilt and bonnet.) THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 219 Of Lord Dudley the Duke said that he and Arbuth- 1840. not were at the last dinner ever given by him before ""^ Ms aberration. One sign of it on that occasion was that he insisted on sending the Duke of Sussex, who had come late, to the side table, and keeping the seat next himself for the Duke of Wellington, who was detained still later in the House of Lords.* I inquired of the Duke as to the accuracy of the anecdote told concerning him in Lord Dudley's letters f — how on the evening of the battle of Waterloo he had exposed himself too much — and how, being reminded of his danger by Felton Harvey, he had answered that his life was no longer to be cared for, as the battle was won. I found that the Duke had been told of the passage already by Arbuthnot. He answered me that he remembered nothing of the kind. " It could not have happened at Waterloo. It might perhaps before Peronne la Pucelle. I remember there sending off the ground a groom I had called George, and telling him — There is no occasion for you to be shot ; and it is pos- sible then that Harvey may have said to me — ISTor for you either ; and that then the conversation stated by Lord Dudley may have passed. But even then I don't recollect it." You always, said Lord Fitzroy, were very particular in sending away from dangerous positions men who had no duty to perform there. The Duke mentioned having done so the morning of Waterloo to the Duke of Eichmond. " I said to him : * ' The Croker Papers,' ii. p. 170. t Lord Dudley's correspondence was published by Dean Copleston, but the executors of Lord Dudley suppressed a portion of it. 220 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. You are tlie father of ten children ; you have no right to be here. You should go — and you may go now, but a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes hence you could not go — it would be no longer right." Had the firing not then begun ? " It was only just beginning, but it was already quite clear we should have a terrible day. It did not do him much good, poor fellow ! — he died by a more distressing death; but, however, he lived a few years longer." This led to some interesting scattered reminiscences between the Duke and Lord Fitzroy as to the events of the day. Many of these I could not distinctly follow — still less distinctly repeat. " You may depend upon it, no troops could have held Hougoumont but British, and only the best of them. "We should not have lost La Haye Sainte* any more than Hougoumont if there had only been a wicket behind to let in ammunition. But the French kept up such a fire on the front, that we could not supply it from that quarter. In the evening we took it from them just in the same way. " It was from the roof of La Haye Sainte that you (to Lord Fitzroy) must have received your wound." Yes, said Lord Fitzroy, I have always thought so. " The French cavalry t is more often manageable and useful than the English, because it is always kept in hand, and may be stopped at the word of command. * Post, p. 245, and ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part I.), i. p. 41. t Ante, p. 149. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 221 This partly results from our horses being better and 1840. kept in higher condition." '^'^ (This observation, I have no doubt, is perfectly just ; but at the first hearing it sounds strange that our cavalry should be worse because our .horses are better.) ***** The Duke adverted to the Nassau troops, who fled at the first fire. Yet these were the same troops who formed the rear of the French after Vittoria and behaved extremely well. " They afterwards came over to us, and I sent them to England. The next thing I saw of them was running off at Waterloo, and what is more, firing upon us as they ran. I pointed them out to General Vincent, who said, Jamais je n'ai vu de tels coquins ! My answer was, Mais enfin, c'est avec ces Messieurs Id qiCilfaut que nous gagnions la hataille ! "Sf iif '^ * J|fr " On the whole, our army that day was certainly an infamously bad one — and the enemy knew it. But, however, it beat them," ***** Sunday. — We dined with the Duke, meeting there Apr. 5. Lord and Lady Wilton, Colonel and Mrs. Anson, M. Dedel, M. de Neumann, General Alava, Chief Justice Eobinson of Canada and hi-s son. Lord Burghersh, Lord Macdonald, Mr. Arbuthnot, and Lord A. Fitzclarence. The Duke looked well, and was in excellent spirits. He has been reading all our House of Commons reports on " Printed Papers " both of this year's Committee and the preceding, Wednesday. — We dined at Apsley House ; a large •*•?*• 8. party, comprising Her Majesty the Queen-Dowager, t]ie Duchess of Cambridge, and Prince George. We went 222 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. at six precisely, and about eight the whole party pro- ceeded to the concert of ancient music ; but I returned to a scene of rather less harmony — the China debate in the House of Commons. STB A THFIELDSA YE. Apr. 15. The Duke went to Strathfieldsaye, and next day (Thursday, April 16) we joined him there. Soon after us arrived Lord and Lady Wilton with their children, and Lord Salisbury with his, and our party at dinner was made up to seven by the Eev. Gerald Wellesley, who took the bottom of the table. The Duke seems much the better for this balmy and delicious spring weather. I had much political conver- sation with him before dinner. As we walked through the rooms, he showed me that he had put up my portrait in the little cabinet of his friends which opens from the gallery ; my pleasure at this I shall not easily forget. At dinner he mentioned inter alia that he had known at Calcutta the grandmother of Lord Liverpool the Minister, who was then the only remaining survivor of the Black Hole tragedy. He praised the account of that affair and of the subsequent war in Orme's History. The field of Plassy had been visited by him ; it is very near the Hooghly, from which he disembarked ; but the ground being flat displayed no remarkable features as records of the action. There was a garden house often mentioned in the narrative of the battle ; it had already crumbled away under that destroying climate, and was reduced to a mere line of ruined wall ; " by this time," added the Duke, " it must be entirely gone." Apr. 17. The same party as yesterday. The Duke had as THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 223 usual a whole shower of letters. As a specimen of the 1840. way in which he is troubled by strangers, he mentioned two he had had this morning : one to inquire whether he had really declared that he would never sit again for his picture, and if so, which of all those he had ever sat for he thought the best ; and another to ask whether he had ever worn a grenadier's cap at a review, on which a bet depended. He added that he received not un- frequently letters of this last kind from people who chose to lay bets about him ; but letters of this class he does not answer. Most others I know he does — and does himself.* .ji*. ^ Sk" ^ ^ In France he has been frequently requested by the Due de Eiclielieu and others to go to Charles X., then Monsieur, and remonstrate with him about his ultra and intolerant course of action. But Charles more than once broke off the conversation with the words, H'en parlous plus, mon cher ; nous n'avons ]pas la meme croyance. " It is curious," added the Duke, " how very much the character as well as the fortunes of Charles X. re- sembled those of James the Second. " I was once present at a very curious conversation between Charles X. and the Due de Fitz James — both of them descendants of Henri Quatre — as to the conduct of their ancestor, in abjuring the Protestant religion, f It was admitted by both that he had not done so from pure conviction but rather from views of state, to give peace to his country and to reconcile con- tending parties. They both declared that he had acted right ; but when they went on to the case of James the * ' The Greville Memoirs' (Part I.), i., p. 262. t 'The Croker Tapers,' ii. p. 812. 224- NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. Second, who would not suppress his religion to please his people, they declared that he had acted right too, and that the justification in both cases turned upon its being la religion veritable. I listened to their argument, but thought I had better not say a word to it, and sat close in my corner of the carriage, for we were driving through Paris to the Chateau de Vincennes, on a shoot- ing party. The conversation arose from Charles X. undertaking to point out to me as we passed the very street — and the precise place in the street — where Henri Quatre was murdered. * * » * » " Talleyrand said to me one day in England during the troubles of the Eeform Bill : Duke of Wellington, you have seen a great deal of the world ; can you point out to me any one place in Europe where an old man could go to and be quite sure of being safe and dying in peace ? I was thinking of naming Malta to him, but the Government were just about to new-model that too (laughing). If Talleyrand had known of any such quiet place, I don't believe that he would have gone himself, but he might have sent his money." * * * * i)J The Duke told us that on the very day we came he had received through Sir Claudius Hunter, who called upon him, a message from the Count de Survilliers (Joseph Bonaparte) to say that he should never lose the grateful recollection of his kindness. It seemed very strange that an ex-king should have any occasion to express his thanks to the very general who had de- throned him. But the Duke explained the circum- stances. When in Spain, and commanding the open country, he very often intercepted the French couriers to Madrid, who were bringing amongst other things THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 225 letters from Madame Joseph to her husband. These 1840. letters contained a. variety of information which the ""^ Duke found useful and wished to keep from the enemy — so that he could not forward the letters them- selves; but as they also constantly referred to the health, which was then rather delicate, of the two daughters. Princess Charlotte and Princess Zenaide — the Dirke never failed to send a flag of truce to the French outposts with the tidings about the young ladies : Ayez la lonte defaire dire mb Eoi qioe les Princesses se portent mieux* The Duke added that the Spaniards in camp at the time were extremely surprised at' these frequent flags of truce which he sent, and could not conceive their object. Alava especially was very jealous of them. Lord and Lady Douro arrived to-day, and there were Apr. 18. some neighbours to dinner, making thirteen in all. We dined in the regular dining-room, instead of as lately in a part of the gallery with a screen across. It happened to be the anniversary of the Douro marriage, so the Duke proposed their healths after dinner, with many happy returns of the day. In the evening I showed the Duke soma" MS. narratives of Gentz, which Lord Aberdeen has trans- mitted to Murray for publication, and which Murray has forwarded to me for my opinion. The Duke began reading them when the company went. He spoke of G-entz as a very able man, but very venal; he took money from all quarters; the Duke amongst others used to pay him. At Vienna they scarcely made a secret of their » 'The Greyille Memoirs' (Part LXiii. p., 11. Q 226 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840 system of opening the Foreign Minister's letters. " Once," said the Duke, " Burghersh said boldly at the Chancellerie, I beg you will make haste and let me have my letters as soon as you have read them," and they, without showing any displeasure, answered quietly that he should have his letters immediately. At Verona, the Duke remembers Prince Metternich and M. Matliieu de Montmorency taking a walk about the town one afternoon, when M. de Montmorency observed to the other that he had just seen one of the Austrian Government couriers arriving. Metternich vehemently denied that it could be one of theirs — none, he said, being expected at that time ; and he persisted in his denial, notwithstanding M. de Montmorency's accurate description of the man's dress and appearance. The object was to gain time for reading and copying the despatches sent by this occasion to the Foreign Ministers, which was done no doubt during the whole night ; and early in the morning M. de Metternich sent M. de Montmorency his despatches, with a message that they had been brought by a courier who had arrived only an hour before ! Apr. 19, Easter Sunday. — After Church we took the Sacra- ment. After dinner I mentioned to the Duke that I had lately heard Croker* in London descant with much gratification on the Duke having, when setting off to assume the command in Portugal,! requested Croker to undertake for him meanwhile the duties of his office as Secretary for Ireland, and having passed the evening previous to his departure at Croker's house, remaining till a late hour in earnest conversation. * ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 12, and iii. p, 271. t In 1808. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 227 The Duke said this was a little exaggeration on the 1840. part of Croker. It was the Government and not the Duke who requested Croker to undertake provisionally the Irish business. The eveniug previous to his departure the Duke passed with Lord Liverpool at Coombe "Wood, and he then went off to sleep at his (the Duke's) sister's house between Egham and Bag- shot. He remembered this the better, from Lord Melville having also that evening come down to Coombe Wood imexpectedly because he had seen or heard of a post-chaise and four driving past the Admiralty, which he guessed to be the Duke leaving London, and knew that he should find him at Lord Liverpool's before his final departure for Portugal. ***** From some conversation upon Court favourites in general, we turned (or rather it was no turn) to M. Decazes. The Duke said that when at Paris he had observed to some one at the time that whatever might be M. Decazes' other qualities and merits, his beiug so imiversally regarded as the King's personal favourite would be always a very great disadvantage to him. At the very next interview which the Duke had with Louis XVIIL, the King studiously directed the conversation ito his Minister's character. He said that he liked M. Decazes because he found hitu more sensible and judicious than any other person about Mm, and because he had learnt by a long experience how to discrimitiate merit ; but he added with emphasis, il ne faut pas croire pour cela qu'il soit mon favori. A word to the wise — the Duke immediately perceived that his remark on M. Decazes must have been reported to the King. I said that I thought M. Decazes' political character Q 2 228 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. very aptly expressed in the inscription to a print of '"^ him which I remember seeing at the time at Paris : Siifflsance et Insuffisance ! This sounds at first like a contradiction, but it signifies Conceit and Incapacity — which are very often found together — as in him. ***** The Duke related to us how when M. Decazes was in England he was one day walking with Mr. Tierney at a country house, and passed a long panegyric on the King of France's excellent government, and on his Majesty having endeared himself and his dynasty to the whole French people. Mr. Tierney drily replied that he was delighted to hear it ; but that if so, he could not see why they (the English) should spend an enormous sum yearly for the guarding of Napoleon at St. Helena, and that there would be no danger in releasing him. This was about the time of the Queen's trial, when a change of administration was thought probable in England ; and so M. Decazes wrote over in great alarm to his master, and to the sovereigns who were then assembled (I think he said at Laybach), stating that there would be probably a new Ministry in England, and that the new would probably let loose Bonaparte once more! This news produced an ex- traordinary stir ; a great deal was said and written on the subject, and it all took its origin in this chance conversation of Decazes and Tierney. Apr. 20. This day arrived their Eoyal Highnesses of Cam- bridge, the Duke, Duchess and Princess Augusta, Baron Brunnow, M. de Neumann, Comte Nesselrode, and Baron Knesebeck. Douro has been ill and confined to his room these two days. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 229 The Duke at breakfast .was speaking partly to the 1840. foreigners, and therefore in French, when the conversa- ^^^' ^^' tion turned upon Sir H. Halford and his Latin poetry, and the Duke observed how well he wrote Latin prose also. He then proceeded with a smile to allude to the assistance which he had derived from Sir Henry in his Latin speech at Oxford in 1834 " H y avait il y a cent ans — quandj'etais encore hienjeime ! — un Chancelier d' Oxford qui savait tres pen de Latin et ce Chancelier avait un medecin qui le savait a merveille ; alors ce Chancelier pria ce medecin de vouloir Men traduii-e pour lid le discours qu'il devoit prononcer devant son Vniversite." He went ' on greatly to praise the clever parody in ^dog Latin on his speech by Dr. Magian. To-day arrived Madame Grisi, M. Tamburini, M. Puzzi, and M. PUati, whom the Duke had engaged for the musical entertainment of the Eoyal party. Madame Grisi dined with us ; the gentlemen, I believe, at four, on account of their voices ; and in the evening we had a beautiful concert, attended by many of the neigh- bouring gentry. The same party. Political conversation, at which I Apr. 23 was present, between the Duke and Baron Brunnow. Madame Grisi and the three musicos dined with us, and we had another charming concert in the evening. The Duke of Cambridge left us, having to preside at Apr. 23. a public dinner this day in London. Un revanche, Prince George arrived in the afternoon from Brighton. We had another concert after dinner. I heard the Duke, in answer to a question from Prince George, describe the proceedings on the memor- 230 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. able 15th of November, 1834 * He received the King's summons at six in the morning, as he was preparing to go out with the fox-hounds. He immediately counter- ordered his hunters and sent for post-horses ; was off about eight, and on arriving at Brighton saw the King at once. He saw his Majesty again alone after dinner, but the essential points had been settled between them in their first interview. Prince George added that Mr. Hudson had set off for Eome with the despatches that same night — which was earlier than I had thought. ■*&'- Apr. 24. Madame Grisi and M. Puzzi were off early this morning, having a rehearsal to attend at the Opera. M. de Neumann also went after breakfast. At dinner we were joined by Mr. and Mrs. Brown and her sister Miss Walmisley, who live in this neighbourhood. In the evening Baron Brunnow re- ceived a courier from London with despatches, which set all the ladies in the drawing-room perfectly on fire with curiosity. Apr. 25. Their Eoyal Highnesses and their suite, Baron Brunnow and Count Nesselrode, MM. Tamburini and Pilati, left Strathfieldsaye for London at different hours in the course of this day. Walking with the Duke up and down as he opened his letters before the conservatory, I was talking to him of a recent occasion when a friend of mine had been extremely irritated and annoyed by a newspaper paragraph. " The fact is," said the Duke, " that whenever there is a newspaper paragraph against any * For resignation of the Melbourne Administration, see 'The Greville Memoirs ' (Part I.), iii. p. 149. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 231 persons, they always take for granted that the public- 1840. are reading nothing else." What absurd letters he receives ! One this morning, as he told me, from a person now in distress, and claiming to be maintained by him on the ground that he had the honour of waiting upon him thirty-two years ago when he landed at Coruiia ! I remember four or five days ago (though I omitted noting it at the time) liis having a letter, applying for money, from a man who had been a barrack-master at Woolwich, and who had been turned out by the Duke, as Master- General of the Ordnance, for cheating the public. The charge was not denied, but still the culprit thought he had some claim upon the Duke for aid, and it appears that the Duke had actually, in a great measure, maintained him ever since that time. " What can one do ? " he said ; " one cannot leave a man to starve." But this last part of the story he let out as it were unwillingly, and only when pressed by several questions — so averse is he on all occasions from anything like a boast, or even allowing a knowledge of his own acts of bounty. Our party at dinner was small and very agreeable. Talking of M. de Brunnow, the Duke observed that in Eussia precedence is mainly regulated by military rank. * * * " When I went to St. Petersburg * the Emperor asked me whether I chose to be received as a Marechal de I' Empire, which is their highest rank, or as ambas- sador. I answered that I should be very proud to be received as one of his Majesty's marshals, but that my first object must be to do the King my master's business. It ended in my combining the two ; I was lodged in the palace, and had the use of the Emperor's * In 1826. 232 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. horses as one of the marshals — but then I used to put on my ambassador's uniform and pursue my negotia- tions." ***** The conversation turned to the Duke of Cumberland. The Duke gave us a sketch of His Eoyal Highness's career — how, about 1793, he was taken prisoner by the French in Flanders with the Hanoverian General Freytag, but released notwithstanding their threat at that time of giving no quarter; and how, in 1801, he first entered into politics, the King, his father, having sent him to confer with Lord Sidmouth, then Speaker. This put an end to Mr. Pitt's first administration. The Duke also ascribes the fall of his own and the subse- quent results to the secret proceedings of His Eoyal Highness. The fall of his administration through the Duke of Cumberland had been foretold by Lord Grey, who said, No government can last that has him either for a friend or an enemy. ^ Tjt ^ -^ y^ Eambling from subject to subject, we came at length to the ex-Empress Maria Louisa. I mentioned Lord Strangford having told me that during the Congress of Verona he had often seen the Duke and the widow of Napoleon playing at ecarte together, and the word " Napoleon " frequently passing between them in payments for the game. The Duke assented. He said that she had been very civil to him during the Congress, and that he had the honour of dining with her. She had the same cook that he had once — a man who had been formerly in Napoleon's service — entered the Duke's after "Waterloo, but left it on the breaking up of his establishment, when the allied army was withdrawn from l^rance — and then sought employment THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 233 in Italy from Ms ancient mistress. On his report of 1840. the Duke's usual fare, she accosted him thus the day the Duke dined with her : I am very sorry indeed that I could not get any roast mutton for you. The Duke said that the first time he had seen her was during the Congress of Vienna in 1815, when he went to pay his respects to her at Schonbrunn; but owing to the state of things in France, he did not often, of course, find himseK in her society. It is a very curious thing, he added, that she afterwards said to Some one: The Duke of Wellington little knows the service he has done me by winning the battle of "Waterloo! The fact is, she was then with child by N"eipperg — whom she afterwards married; and if Napoleon had prevailed she would have had to retm'n to him in that state. * * * •* * Had you ever any opportunity of conversing with the Due de Eeichstadt ? "Yes, I had once on my way to the Congress of Verona, and I passed part of the day in his company. He seemed a fine lad — educated just like the arch- dukes." He must then have been twelve or thirteen years old ; did he seem to mark you, and show himself aware of your influence upon his father's fate ? " I caimot tell — he was very civil to me." The same party continued. Church, &c. Apr. 26. I know not how it happened that this morning at breakfast the conversation rambled to the agony of thirst — a theme very little according with the ample stores of tea and coffee that lay spread before us. The Duke observed how painful it was to see — as he had 334 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. seen in India — large bodies of men calling out for '^^ water, and to have no water to give them. There are no springs to be found in that country ; but the armies usually encamp near the dry beds of rivers, and there, by digging a little way into the sand, water of good quality is generally found. But sometimes this resource fails, and then both men and animals suffer greatly, or rush to any neighbouring village — for where there is a, village there is water — and obtain the supply of its tank. iJut sometimes the tank is small and soon exhausted, and then, when scarcely anything remains but thick mud, one sees the men struggling and fighting in it for nearly the last drops of water. The iJuke described the plans he had formed, when appointed to command the expedition from Bombay to Egypt, for marching across the deserts between Cosseir and the Nile. I asked why it was not thought preferable to send the expedition to Suez, and strike at once at Cairo ? " You would then have had a little less of desert, but a great deal more of sea — and of a dangerous sea. Besides, you would have come at once upon the whole French army." After dinner the Duke spoke inter alia of church accommodation and extension, condemning the whole system of pews. He said that if space were wanted in Strathfieldsaye he should certainly offer to give up his pew, retaining only a chair for himself " The system of a church establishment is," added he, "that every clergyman should preach the word of God, and that every parishioner should be able to hear the word of God. Is it not then quite contrary to that system, that by means of handsome family pews twenty or thirty THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 233 persons of rank should take up the space of two or three isia hundred?" "^ I most cordially concurred in this opinion, which I hare long entertained. A church appears to me the very last place where any distinction of rank should prevail, or any sentiment of pride be indulged. I should think it far more consistent with the feelings that make one enter a church at all, to kneel side by side with those whom I should keep at a distance elsewhere — by the side of my own footman or my own cobbler. Certainly, the Eoman Catholics manage this point far better than we do. * ' * » * * The Duke believes that the first invention of suspen- sion bridges was by the engineers of his army ia Spain, at Trajan's bridge of Alcantara. Necessity was in tliis case, as in many others, the parent of invention ; for the arch of the bridge having been blown up, and there being no timber in the neighbourhood sufficient to repair it, the engineers in this strait bethought themselves of suspension ropes to be kept tight by a windlass. The apparatus answered so well that it thenceforth ^^'as always carried about with the army for similar cases. I remarked that the country about Alcantara seems to have been wanting not only in timber but in everything else. Since I have been here I have been reading a curious book I found in the library — the narrative of M. de Naylies, a French officer who served in Portugal and Spain, and he mentions that the soldiers not far from the Tagus found the villages so- destitute of all materials for cooking, that they were obliged to avail themselves of the relics of their former actions that lay strewed about the ground, and M. de 236 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. ISTaylies had frequently seen them prepare their soup dans dcs eclats de homle ! The Duke observed that the Spanish soldiers some- times improved upon this device of the French, and put not a fragment, but the whole bomb upon the fire. An instance of this kind occurred to him at Salamanca. He had given over a powder magazine to the charge of the Spaniards with many injunctions of care, but ere long they let it blow up with a tremendous explosion. On hearing it, he inquired the cause of the accident, and was met at first with a repeated No lo se, but on persisting, he found that a Spanish soldier had actually in some way or other put a bomb upon the fire, and let it explode. The Spaniards were always remarkably liable to accidents in their custody of powder. LONDON. pr. 27. All of us remaining visitors left Strathfieldsaye to-day — all, I believe, with most sincere regret ; and the Duke himself returned to town this morning. Our visit has been a delightful one, and the skies have smiled upon it — not a drop of rain has fallen the whole time. The Duke appears to me very much better than I could have expected after such an illness, and indeed it may be said quite well — but, alas ! grown very old. He is now extremely thin — stoops a good deal on one side, his countenance careworn and pale, and the fire of his eagle eye much quenched. On sitting down, even in the forenoon, he is apt to fall asleep for a few minutes — a very new habit with him. He does not read readily without spectacles. Eiding — or at least riding at all fast — appears to have become irksome if not painful to him ; during our visit he only mounted his horse once, to attend the Duchess of Cambridge, and THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 237 he sways very unsteadily in his saddle at any jerk or 1840. sudden motion. On the other hand, he walks firmly ^^ and well — often four or five miles a day at once. He was, in general, gay and in good spirits. At all times nothing could be kinder or gentler than his manner ; full of care and attention to the comfort of his guests. His great mind is certainly as great as ever — not the slightest trace of decay in its powers,* or obscuration in its clearness — ec[ual, I am quite sure, in all respects to itself — but it is grown somewhat slower, both in the conception and expression of ideas. He seizes upon facts less rapidly, and conveys his thoughts with longer pauses. It is a victory of mind over matter. Wednesday. — "We dined at Apsley House ; there was jujie 3^ the Duchess of Cambridge and a very large party. The Duke could not rise from his chair, having overstepped and sprained his ankle the evening before, in getting out of his cabriolet. A note from the Duke this morning invited us to a June &. very small and pleasant dinner the same day ; we met only Lord and Lady Wilton, Lord Downes, and Colonel Gurwood. The Douros were asked, but had gone to the Eev. Gerald's at Strathfieldsaye. ■The Duke questioned me as to the debate last night in the Hou^e of Commons on the Hill Coolies, and explained the plan which he had formed and written down last year for Lord Glenelg to regulate their employment. No hill cooly to be allowed to sail from India until he had appeared before a magistrate and signified his consent ; the probable length of the voyage * 0. Qreville gives a first symptom of a failure in the Duke's memory, under the date March 18, 1840, see 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), i. p. 278. 238 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. and nature of the service being clearly explained to him in the magistrate's presence. Their voyage to be regulated as for British soldiers — only one allowed for every ton and a half of the shipping, and on their arrival in the colony a system of superintendence to be established to prevent any oppression or unfairness to them in their labours. * # * * * Our conversation soon turned to home politics. " We are now coming to two extreme parties in this country. One party looking only to what is done in the Eepublic of America — or to what was done in the Eepublic of France since Quatrc-vingt-neuf — and at- tempting to transplant these maxims over here ; the other party wishing to bring us back to the earlier days of George the Third — or to the Eevolution — or to Charles the Pirst — one of these three periods ; that is, the more violent are for the days of Charles the First, and the more moderate among them for those of 1688." ***** Gurwood asked the Duke as to a passage in the last volume of Sir Samuel Eomilly's ' Memoirs,' where the French plenipotentiaries of 1815 detail their conferences with the Duke on his advance from Waterloo. The Duke had not seen the book, but observed that an authentic account of the conferences was to be found in his own despatch at the time, as published by Gurwood himself. " They spoke a little," he said, " of Napoleon's son ; but the real object they seemed to have in view was the Duke of Orleans.* I told them that the Duke ot Orleans on the throne would be only un usurpateicr de honne famille." * 'The Oroker Papers,' iii. p. 211. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 239 Other plenipotentiaries, headed by La Fayette, had 1840. gone to the headquarters of the allied Sovereigns in ""^ Germany, and on their return La Fayette called upon the Duke at Paris. " He said that he -wished to put a question to me — what I intended to do with the Be- jcrresentation Nationale ? " I replied that I would readily answer liis question if he could poiat out to me any instance in wliich Napoleon or any other French commander, having entered Yienna, Berlin, or any other foreign capital, had ever answered — or indeed ever allowed to be put to him — any one question as to what he intended to do in any respect whatever." ***** " I had met La Fayette very often in society the year before, when I was ambassador." ***** " I have always considered La Fayette as a striking instance how seldom men in politics profit by ex- perience. After all that he had said and done in 1789, and seeing the results, he was beguming to play ezactly the same part after 1830 ; and if Louis Philippe had not been a very different man from Louis XVI., and had not had firmness first to check and then to dis- miss him, he would a second time have overturned the Government by just the same proceedings. No; ex- perience is thrown away where there are strong party feelings. Lord Grey is another instance of this. I remember Talleyrand saying,* 'It is now, I see, the height of human wisdom for a man to propose exactly the same Eeform Bill as he had proposed forty years ago — all other circumstances having meanwhile entirely changed.' " * Fast, p. 282. 240 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. I sent the Duke the third volume of Eomilly's ' Memoirs,' that contains the passage about which we spoke last night, and he returned it to me the same day with his notes in pencil on the margin. ' Here they are : — P. 419, first paragraph, beginning " Dans la premiere de CCS conversations," &c. " Not true, to the best of my recollection." P. 419, last paragraph. " Bans I'une de ccs conversa- tions," &c. " True in substance, not in form." P. 420, first paragraph. "II revint ensuitc a I'idee^* &c. " True in substance, not in form or in words." P. 420, second paragraph. " L'un des jolenipoien- tiaires," &c. " Not in conversation with those men, nor ever in those exact terms. The idea was stated in other directions." P. 420, last paragraph. " Bu reste les plenipoten^ tiaires," &c., to the end of the memorial. " This is not true. If there was a word about a despatch from Metternich, it was to complain of the falsehood of La Payette's report of his conversation with him." me 19. Sir Edward Kerrison, who dined yesterday at the Waterloo banquet, gave me much concern, by telling me that he and many other officers present, who had not seen the Duke for some time, and who are therefore the better judges — thought him looking very ill, and extremely shrunk both in form and face. Sir Edward related to me that many years ago, when he was living at Brighton, he had asked Alava to dinner, and to save Alava's money (for it was during his exile) had sent his . own carriage to fetch him. On THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 241 arriving Alava thanked him, and said that he felt the 1840, more anxious to avoid expense at that time, since it was the Duke's money that he spent. The Duke, added he, took me to his banker, and said to him : This is my friend ; and as long as I have any money at your house, let him have it to any amount that he thinks proper to draw for ! I heard the Duke's speech on Canada* in the House June 30. of Lords. It was heard with breathless silence, and seemed to produce a great impression, especially the close, when with an energetic gesture he threw off all responsibility of the measure from himself, and left it "in the name of God" upon the Ministers. As he stood erect, his figure looked very thin — wasted and shrunken within his clothes ; but his countenance beamed with noble expression, and while I gazed upon him I remembered Eousseau's description of Lord Marischal. " Mon premier mouvement, en voyant ce venerable vieillard, fut de m'attendrir sur la maigreur de son corps dej^ decharne par les ans ; mais, en levant les yeux sur sa physionomie animde, ouverte et noble, je me sentis saisi d'un respect mele de confiance qui I'emporta sur tout autre sentiment." — Les Confessions, partie 2, livre 12. ***** "We went to Chevening, July 5th. On the 15th the Duke had a renewal of his attack, but happily very far slighter than the previous ones. It came on exactly at the same hour — between five and six, and with exactly the same kind of symptoms. The proximate cause wasj * On the Bill to reunite the Colonies of tipper and Lower Canada, introduced by Lord Melbourne. It was read a second time -without a diyision. K 242 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH J840. as before, derangement of the stomach. He felt the approach of the attack, and sent for his physicians, and by their care was within two days nearly re-established. On Monday the 20th, being in town for one night on my way to Hertford, I was with the Duke for some time, and he brought me back from the House of Lords in his carriage. I thought him in looks very well — if anything better than when I was last in London, and he spoke very cheerfully about himself. He gave me an account of the interviews between himself and Lord Melbourne on the subject of the Eegency Bill. Lord Melbourne, having written to ask to see him, called at the time appointed at Apsley House, threw himself into an armchair, like an old friend, with great glee and rubbing of hands, and began at once with — Well, now, what do you think about the Eegency ? " Upon this," said the Duke, " I came the Scotchman over him, for I said. Why, I should like to know in the first place what you think of it." Lord Melbourne said at first that there was a great pressure upon him in favour of the Duke of Sussex from some of " the supporters and followers of the Govern- ment," but he afterwards let out that some of his own Cabinet were very urgent. His own opinion was de- cidedly for Prince Albert as sole Eegent. The Duke said that such was also his decided opinion — that he could not answer for any one else's on the subject, but would communicate with Sir Eobert Peel, Lord Stan- ley, Sir James Graham, &c., and let Lord Melbourne know what they thought — which he did accordingly in perfect unanimityat a second interview at Apsley House. ***** About this time, as it chanced, I read in Yelleius THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 243 Paterculus (lib. 2, c. 9), Juvenes adhuc Jugurtha ac 1840. Marius sub codem Africano militanUs in iisdem castris didicere qum posfea in contrariis facerent. Of Napoleon trained at Brienne, and of Wellington in another French academy, might it not as truly be said that they learned in the same that which in contrary camps they practised ? Hooker, I recollect, in the second book of his ' Ecclesiastical Polity,' applies the passage to a controversy between two divines. Monday. — We arrived at Walmer Castle from Nov. 2. Chevening. Besides ourselves, the party consisted only of the Wiltons and Gurwood. After dinner the Duke explained to us his rules as to recommending gentlemen for commissions in the peace. He never, except in very special cases, recom- mends for that of&ce either a clergyman, a practising attorney, or a brewer — the latter as having an interest in the granting of licences to public-houses. Account of the Court of Inquiry on the Cintra Con- vention : — The Duke was present at the King's Court when an address was brought up from the city of London, levelled at himself — praying, as I understood, for Ms dismissal or punishment, but he did not clearly explain it. He stood sideways ; and these shabby fellows, seeing him after their address ^vas presented, came up with fawning civility and expressed anxious wishes for his good health. There was a strong party against the Duke at that time in the Government, and even his friend. Lord Castlereagh,* attempted to dis- suade him from going to Court on that occasion ; but the Duke replied that he felt it his right. "I wiU. either go to Court to-morrow, or never go to Court again." * ' The Croher Papers,' i. p. 344. E 2 244 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. The Duke told me that there was an account' of that Address in the Annual Eegister. Amidst all the attacks upon him at the time of the Cintra Convention, the Duke felt always conscious of the confidence of the army. There were at that time only two officers whom they would readily have seen as leader — and who could have commanded them — either Sir John Moore or himself ; and so he told Sir Jolm on one occasion, adding, " And you are the man — and I shall with great willingness act under you." Wov. 3. The Duke showed me copies of his two letters to King Leopold, dated Oct. 13 and 28. After dinner Lord and Lady Eobert Grosvenor arrived, having landed at Dover this afternoon. Kov. 4. Captain Fisher, Captain "Watts, and Dr. MacArthur dined here. After they had gone, Lord Eobert, who has just returned from Brussels and is very full of the battle of Waterloo, addressed some questions upon it to the Duke, who answered them, as he always does, with the utmost readiness and kindness. Gradually he grew warmed with the subject, and a plan of the battle (taken from the recent model in London) being laid before him he pointed out with his finger some of the principal events and positions of that day. Here are a few — and only a very few — of the disjecta membra herois. " The afternoon of the l7th there arose the most terrible storm of rain that I have ever seen — our horses could not face it. It was a rough, bleak night ; and on the 18th it rained at intervals. I remember I was cloaked all day. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. >245 " Bliicliei' and I met near La Belle Alliance ; we Avere both on horseback ; but he embraced and kissed me, exclaiming, Mein lieher Kamerad, and then quelle affaire ! which was pretty much all he knew of French. ***** " At my supper, that night I had forty or fifty people. There came in several of the French officers prisoners — there was Cambronne — ^you know his viot: La garde meurt et ne se rend pas ? — there was Lobau — but I told, them that I could not allow them to sup with me until after they had made their peace with the Kiag of France." * The Duke lamented the loss of La Haye Saintef from the fault of the officer commanding there — " who was the Prince of Orange " ; but immediately correcting himself,- — " No — in fact it was my fault, for I ought to have looked into it myself." The omission was, not preA-iously providing a postern or back way by which a supply of ammunition could be introduced for the little garrison. ***** An officer reprimanded for having, contrary to the orders the Duke had given all his artillery, fired cannon against cannon. ***** The French appear to have become quite disheartened in the evening when the Dnke directed his final and decisive attack. The Duke said that he observed several bodies of their infantry, which were standing with their arms piled in expectation of being called On to make another charge; but on seeing the Duke's attack they fled at once, leaving their arms behind. * Ante, p. 172. t ' The GrevOle Memoirs' (Part I.), i. p. 4,1, and supra, p. 220. 1840. 246 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. M. Dedel arrived from London, and Captain Watts ■^'"" ■ joined tire party at dinner. In the evening we spoke of Sebastiani and of his appointment as Marshal, which, as I had heard, ^as much blamed in France — considering the chances of war, and Sebastiani being no longer able to take the field. This led us to speak of Talavera, &c. I asked the Duke whether he had ever talked of that battle to Sebastiani in London. He answered in the negative. As an instance of the different versions given on the French side, the Duke told us what follows : — " When I came to Paris as ambassador, I found the battle of Toulouse * much praised. Nobody disputed then its being a victory on our side. They called it a didactic battle; and Marshal Suchet proposed to me that they should send me a plan of the ground, drawn out by their engineers, into which ours should then mark more exactly the positions which our regiments had held. Accordingly I did receive this plan ; but when I come to look into it, I found written in one place, Id douze hataillons des Anglais ftcrent culbutes ; in another place. Id le General marclia sur le corps d'un regiment anglais ; and so on. So what I did was this : I merely said Quel ieau plan — dest parfaitement dessine c' est fait a merveille ! and rolling it up again, I delivered it back to the officer who had brought it, with a pro- found bow, telling him to give my compliments and thanks to Marshal Suchet. And I heard no more of it afterwards." Sebastiani led us to Junot and Portugal. " The Nuncio at Lisbon, Monsignor Gonsalvi, told m^ that he dined with General Junot during the French occupation, and that Junot pointed to some cannon in * Napier's ' Peninsular War,' vi. p. 162. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, 247 the streets, ready to use against any insurgents, and 1840. that he repeated "^ ' Avec la canaille On se sert de la mitraille.' Colonel Gurwood urged that this Nuncio's name was Coletti, but the Duke on reflection still said Gonsalvi — Coletti, he observed, came afterwards. " I went to dine with Junot in Lisbon while the negotiations were proceeding. He lived in state at the house of , a great tobacco-contractor; and Loison (Maneta, as the Portuguese called him) lived at the house of Bandeira, the other great tobacco-con- tractor of Portugal. Loison had been ill just before, and Junot, having been to visit him, said in going away to Bandeira — and this Bandeira told me himself — I hope you will take the greatest care of General Loison, for I must give you notice that if he should die I intend to bury you under him ! ^ '7^ yfi ^ ^ " Junot seemed to maintain great state ; he walked out to dinner, I recollect, before me, although I was the stranger, and although of the two I was certainly the victorious general. * # * * * "At Salamanca Junot was quartered upon one occasion in the house of an old Count, the father of Madame Alava. Junot, though of humble extraction, affected great refinement and hauteur. One evening he smelt tobacco smoke, and expressed himself as much annoyed by it as if he had not been trained himself at a tabagie. He cried out. Qui est-ce qui fume ? Si c'est un soldat, giu'on le mene mi, corps de garde ! Si c'est ■248 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH . 1840. Monsieur le Gomte, qu'on le roue vif ! And then turning to the ladies in company, he asked, smiling agreeably, Mesdames, avez-vous jamais vu rouer un homme vif? * « « * * " Junot died in 1813 ; in a fit of frenzy he threw himself from a -window and was killed." I remarked that the same thing had happened to Marshal Berthier* in 1815. But the Duke replied that from all the information he received at the time, he was ■quite persuaded that Berthier's fall was an accident ; he was standing before a high window just after eating a hearty breakfast, became suddenly giddy, and lost his balance. Lord Eobert remarked that they still show at Bamberg the window from which this accident happened ; he had seen it not long since. At Paris, in 1814, the Duke had often seen Berthier, and known him very well. He thought him a very good kind of man, but scarcely justifying his high reputation. " I heard," he added, " that at Waterloo ISTapoleon asked Soult, in the crisis of the day, whether he had taken care to convey his orders to Grouchy. Soult answered that he had sent an officer; upon which Napoleon exclaimed, Un officier ! Ah, man pauvre Berthier. S'il avait ete id il en aurait envoys vingt .' " f Colonel Gurwood observed that he had heard this related also by Count Flahaut, who was Napoleon's aide-de-camp in the battle. ***** "Marshal Victor was remarkable for a round and red face ; they used to nickname Mm Beaio Soleil among his comrades, and when he was created Due de Bellune * Ante, p. 64. f Ante, p. G5. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 249 they turned it into a pun, D'un heau soldi il a fait lelle 1840. lune ! '""^ The Duke told us some adventures* (several of which I have put do-WTi before) of his spy, who called himself Don Juan de la Eosa — the same who pointed out Soult to him during the battle of Sauroren. His real name was Osire. When he finally came to the Duke's head- quarters he dined at his table every day, but the Duke would not let him ride out with him in his morning reconnaissances, and, though always with great civUity, watched him very closely, knowing him to be a double spy. He was richly rewarded by both sides. Some years after the army of occupation had left France, Osire died ; and his brother f — who was a Erench solicitor — came over to London to claim from the Duke further compensation for his brother's services, who, he said, being always at the Duke's headquarters, had by his suggestions and assistance enabled him to drive the French out of Spain. The Duke took the memorial, but said, My advice to you is to return to France at once, and for your brother's sake never renew the subject. And this advice was followed. The Duke observed on the frequent and minute intelligence which he received from Spaniards whUe the war was among them. JN'early all the curates were in combination for that object, while at the same time many maintained a most friendly intercourse with the French commanding officers. On one occasion a curate, having called on a French general, found him writing a despatch, and, as if in sport, put both his hands before the other's eyes, bidding him guess who it was — ^just as Grey and Peppy might do (turning to * Ante, pp. 54, 55, and 71. t -AmU, p. 55. 2SO NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. Lady Wilton) -when playing together. But in the midst of this romping he contrived to read the whole despatch, and on going home afterwards wrote the Duke a full account of it. I asked the Duke as to the story* of a poor Spaniard stationing himself on the bridge of Irun, and counting, day after day, the number of French that marched in, for the information of the English general. The Duke said that he remembered nothing of the kind. Ifov. 6. Nearly the whole of this day the Duke was at Dover for the annual Harbour Sessions, but he came back to dinner at the Castle. After dinner somebody mentioned Croker, and observed upon his love of paradoxes. " In this very house," said the Duke, laughing, " he once attempted to prove to me that I did not know the difference between a scarp and a counter-scarp ! " Nov. 7. Lord and Lady E. Grosvenor set off for London early this morning. On the other hand, we had to dinner a large party from Deal Castle, Lord and Lady Maryborough, Lady Clarendon, Lord and Lady Pitzroy Somerset, their two daughters, and Lady Burghersh. The Duke gave an account of Prince Bernhard of Saxe Weimar, who is now in the service of the Nether- lands. He was one of Napoleon's officers, and during the war with Eussia was stationed at one of the- Stapes through Germany for the passage of troops. This would have been very well at any other station than the one assigned him — his own paternal town of Weimar. I put some questions to Lord Fitzroy, next whom I * Napier's ' Peninsular War,' iii. p. 326. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 251 sat, on the Waterloo campaign and the Duke's personal 1840. movements. He told me that the Duke slept at ""^ Waterloo on the 17th as well as the 18th, but at Gemappe on returning from Quatre Bras on the 16th. He does not remember whether the house at Gemappe was the inn or not. At Waterloo it was the inn ; but the apartment in which the Duke slept, and Gordon died, was upon the ground-floor, so that the one shown as such, and which is, I remember, on the first-floor, cannot be the right one. How difficult, then, even at the places where great deeds were done and even only twenty years afterwards, to get at truth by tradition ! Sunday. — To Walmer Church in the morning. Nov. 8. The Duke spoke in the highest terms of Lord Abinger's great skill as an advocate. He used to address the jury as his children — take them as it were to his bosom — and make them feel a corresponding confidence in him ; and at every stringent remark he would turn round and say: But this cannot fail to have already occurred to yourselves ! and they thought it had. We had to dinner Captain Watts and his cousin Colonel Heriot, an officer just returned from Canada. The Duke had much conversation with him on the affairs of that country. Colonel Heriot ascribed the second insurrection in a great measure to the ringleaders of the former having been let off, instead of making them an example. " Yes," said the Duke, " it is a very painful thing, but it is necessary. * * * They may talk of punishment as cruel, but there is nothing so inhuman as impunity." * » « * * Something was said of the plan of making Toronto 252 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH l«40. the capital of the United Province, by way of stealing a march as it were over the French deputies. " That is not the way/' said the Duke. " With nations, depend upon it, the only way is to go straight forward without stratagems or subterfuges." ***** After our visitors had left us, the Duke spoke with the deepest emotion — I might almost say anguish — of the loss of Canada impending, as he fears, from the measure of last session. He condemned the Ministers strongly, as acting against their better judgment, and used these remarkable words : " I am an old man now — please God will remove me before it happens — but that it will happen some time or other I have no doubt." I have seldom seen him more affected. He after- wards reverted to the operations of the last war with America on the Canadian frontier. He had sent them some of his best troops from Bordeaux ; but they did not turn out quite right — " they wanted this iron fist to command them " — striking out his clenched hand as he spoke with much emphasis. ***** At a still later hour the conversation turned to the 33rd regiment. The Duke told us that their facings were of the same colour as their coats, so that it seemed as if they had no facings at all ; and this led to a kind of taunt from the privates of other regiments, as though they had been deprived of their facings as a punish- ment for having lost their colours. It is inconceivable how often the Duke was called on to allay quarrels and arrest fights arising from this petty cause. The others used to begin— Ah, where are your facings ? THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 253 Ah, -wlaat have you done with your colours ? — and blows 1840. were pretty sure to follow. "^ Early this morning we set off for Chevening, and Nov. 9. M. Dedel and Colonel Gurwood together for town, leaving only Lord and Lady Wilton with the Duke. His own stay at "Walmer will probably not exceed three or four days longer. Thursday. — We arrived at Strathfieldsaye. The Nov. 26. Duke had wished us to come early in the week to meet Prince Esterhazy, Neumann, and Brunnow, but our absence from town when I received his letter prevented it, and we found that these diplomatists had taken their departure this very day. The remaining visitors were Lord and Lady Wilton and Mr. Eogers. Captain and Mrs. Brown joined us at dinner — a very intelligent and agreeable pair; and also the Eeverend Gerald Wellesley* — one of the most amiable and right-minded young men I have ever seen, and unaffectedly devoted to his duties. I thought the Duke very well for his time of life, except a cold he had caught the day before, and a consec[uent hoarseness. This afternoon arrived Lord and Lady Lyndhurst and uoy, 27. Miss Copley from London, and we had Gerald as usual ^o^- 28. to dinner. I walked up and down with the Duke a long while this morning in the conservatory. That is now his usual practice before breakfast, while opening and reading his letters. Eeferring to a recent transaction, be said : " No, I will have nothing to say to a black- * Afterwards Dean of Windsor. 354 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. guard. * * * When I discover a man to be a black- "^ guard, my rule is at once to stop all communication. * * * I will not dirty my fingers with him ! " Eogers left us for town this day about one, but he and I previously strolled out together to visit Gerald at his parsonage. All three of us then walked to the church and churchyard. One of the gravestones is over a humble retainer of Lord Elvers — one John Grant ; and Gerald pointed out to me the inscription, from which I copied these four lines : " He did no harm ; his only sin Was that he loved a drop of gin, And when his favourite was not near, Contented, took hia horn of beer ! " I suppose this is the first time the word " gin " ever appeared on a funeral inscription. Some persons have pressed Gerald to remove the stone; but he agreed with me, that though one would not have been the person to put it up, one should not take it down. Eogers repeated to us this beautiful inscription, taken from some other humble country churchyard, and dated, he said, about 1678 : " To woo us unto Heaven her life was lent, To wean us from this earth her death was sent I " Gerald pointed out to me how like — and I perceived the striking resemblance as soon as he had shown it — the church of Strathfieldsaye is to the church of "Water- loo; so much so, added he, that some persons who come here imagine that the Duke had built this one from vanity, in imitation and memorial of the other. But THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 255 our little village church has stood as it is above a 1840. hundred years. ^ ^ ^ i^ ^ Sometimes, said Eogers, there are flashes of great humour from. Sir Eobert Peel in conversation. Once Avhen he was present at a meeting of the trustees of the British Museum, somebody else noticed some expensive purchases (of pictures, I think) by young Tomline, and added : "What would his grandfather (the Bishop) say if he could now look up ! Peel said slyly : I observe you don't say look down. * 7^ T(t T^ Tfr "^ Eogers told us, with some irritation, that yesterday, at dinner. Lady Wilton asked him whether he had ever known Lord Byron. I afterwards inquired of Gerald, who had sat nearer to them, whether he had heard it. He answered. Yes, that Lady Wilton had put the ques- tion in perfect sincerity and good faith across Lord Lyndhurst, and that the poet, apparently much an- noyed, replied, " Known him — yes, I did know him — tooweU!" » * * * * After dinner the Duke was asked by Lord Lyndhurst some questions about his estate in Belgium. He said it was a very well managed estate ; and so much is property divided in that country, that, as he is told, he is now the largest landed proprietor in it, except the Duke of Aremberg. In France it had also been the intention of Louis XVIIL to grant him a domain about the time when the army of occupation was departing ; he even went so far as to announce to the Duke his gracious intention, and request him to write to the Prince Eegent for permission to accept the gift, which the Duke did accordingly, and he has now the Prince's 256 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. letter granting the required permission. Tlie domain which Louis XVIII. had in view was that of Grosbois,* near Paris ; it had belonged to Berthier, and was to have been acquired from his widow, the Princesse de Neufchatel. But when things had got to this point, it was feared by the French government to incur clamour or dissatisfaction by a gift of land to the English general; therefore the King, in place of it, presented the Duke with diamonds that cost him 50,000/.,t and that were set in the form of the star and badge of the Order du Saint Esprit. These (the Order being now; abolished) the Duke transferred into a diadem or coronet, which he presented to Lady Douro on her marriage. In Portugal the Duke, in place of an estate, received a commanderie to the value of 2000/. yearly. There are now large arrears upon it — which seem the more shabby on the part of that government, as the Duke never accepted from it any part of his pay or allowances while the struggle was depending, but, though he always received the money, always paid it back again. Nov. 29. Sunday, — To church in the morning. Walk in the afternoon. Mr. Hunter and Mr. and Mrs. Pigott from, this neighbourhood came to dinner. We have had much political and very interesting conversation since Lord Lyndhurst's arrival. I read several letters : Lord Stanley's to Lord Wilton, ISTovem- ber 8 ; Lord Stanley's to the Duke, November 20 ; the Duke's to Lord Stanley, November 24 ; the Duke's to Mr. Shaw on another subject, written this day, &c. Nov. 30. At breakfast the conversation turned to George the * ' The Croker Papers,' i. p. 332. f Ibid., iii. p. 272. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 257 Einu-tli in his last illness. I asked the Duke how long 1840, hi' had seen his Majesty before his death. The Duke answered, on the previous Wednesday. It was his duty to wait upon him every Wednesday and Saturday with the stamp for the Eoyal signatures. On that Wednesday the Duke plainly perceived that his last hour was approaching, and that, if he saw him again on the next Saturday, it would be as much as he should do. The King, though he must have been conscious that death was not far distant, allowed no indication of it to escape him ; on the contrary, he said that after the next Saturday he should receive the Duke at the Lodge, where he intended to sit out in the sunshine, and where he should soon be quite well. He was rather irritable from the effect of a clause which Lord Grey had introduced into the Bill for the stamp, that his assent should be spoken separately to each paper requiring signature. Keppel, who was always about liim, was very careful as to the due observance of tliis rule ; once or twice, when the King had only nodded, instead of repeating the same words, Keppel reminded the Duke, and the Duke then reminded the King. His Majesty said, with some impatience, " D it ! "Wliat can it signify?" But the Duke answered, " Only, Sir, that the law requires it ; " upon which he complied. At the last he did expire rather more quickly than was expected. Feeling a sudden thrill of pain, he exclaimed, "This is death!* Send directly for Sir Henry 1 " — and he died in the act of making a friendly inclination of the head to Halford on his entering the apartment. The Duke detailed some of the circumstances of * ' Tlie Cioker Papers,' ii. p. 65. 258 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. William the Fourth's accession to the Throne. He said, ^¥ith much animation, "It is impossible for one man to have treated another better or more kindly than the King did me from that day to the day of his death. And yet it was also impossible for one man to have run another harder than I did him as Lord High Admiral. But he showed no resentment of it. People talk of Louis the Twelfth of France, and Henry the Fifth of England, but I think this case entitled to quite as much praise. "There was another thing,* however, that offended him still more in me during the late King's illness. I used to send him the bulletins of his brother's health, adding generally a note of my own. In one of his replies he wrote to me that if or when he became King, he hoped he might look to me as his Minister. To this I gave no answer. If I had said yes, it would not have been fair to the poor man who was dying; if I had said no, it would not have been right on other accounts. So I did not touch upon the subject at all in my next note. He was very much offended at this omission, and grievously complained of it to Lord Ailsa and also afterwards to Peel, but I never perceived his displeasure from his conduct. Do you remember (turning to Lord Lyndhurst) with how much fairness and kindness lie acted towards us in May 1832, when you and I attempted to fomi a Government ? " Immediately after breakfast Lord and Lady Lynd- hurst, Miss Copley, and Lord and Lady Wilton and their two cliildren, left us for Iteading and the railway. Lady Mahon and I were the only visitors remaining. Captain Brown called, and the iJuke went out hunting this morning, which he had not done all last * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part I.), iii. p. 106. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 259 year, nor before in this. But he came back to 1840. luncheon after less than two hour.s' riding, and with- ""^ out waiting to find, Immediately after luncheon the Duke went into his own room, where he continued without intermission writing letters. He told us, on coming in to dinner, that he had dispatched by this day's post not less than twenty-five. Captain and Mrs. Brown and Gerald came to dinner. The Duke gave us an account of his godson, the late Lord Dorchester, whom I remember as my contem- porary at Oxford. His father was killed in the Indian service ; his mother, thus left a widow, was confined of him on board a transport tossing in the heavy sea off Madras. It was just at the time when the Duke was returning to Europe, and he consented to stand god- father to the little boy at the cliristening, wliicli took place at St. Helena. He saw no more of either mother or son for many years, until one day hunting with the Yiue hounds he met the Eev. Mr. Orde, who lives in tliis neighbourhood, accompanied by a very uncouth- looking boy ; on inquiry, he found this to be his godson and Mr. Orde's ward, who up to that time had been very much left to grow up aio natvscl. The Duke desired that he might have the benefits of a regular education, had him in due time sent to Christ Church, and obtained for him a commission in the army. He was turning out a fine young man, when cut off by sudden illness at the age of only, two or three and twenty. Captain Brown added that he had been much liked in this neighbourhood, and his death greatly lamented. ***** In answer to some questions of mine, the Duke said 26o KOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1840. that he had been for several weeks at St. Helena. He '^^ did not think Napoleon's complamts well founded as to its being an arid and wretched spot — ce rocker affrcux^ as he called it : on the contrary, he thought the aspect of the country very pleasing. Napoleon had not indeed the very best, but the second best house in the island. A thousand times in his life he must have been very much worse lodged in his own headquarters. * * s * * The Duke has more than once pointed out to me in the billiard-room, with pleasure, the portrait of Admiral Eeynier, who brought him home in this voyage. He was of French extraction, but a native, the Duke believed, of Sandwich. Deo. 1. After breakfasting with the Duke, we took our departure for Chevening. He showed us a letter he received this morning from a naval officer engaged in the siege of Acre, and comprising a plan of that place. It is very remarkable that this plan closely tallied with one drawn out hj the Duke himself three days ago, merely from reading the descriptions of the attack and the defence. Dec, 18. Oakley Park. On arriving here we found among the guests Lord and Lady Douro. Douro, who has just come from Norwich, told me that the Bishop had received this autumn a strange incoherent letter from a man of that town, who was evidently disordered in his intellect. The Bishop returned no answer ; upon which the man wrote again, taunting him with his silence, and observing that the Duke of Wellington, to whom he had applied in the same strain, had not disdained to reply to liim. In THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 261 proof of this, lie enclosed a copy of the Duke's note, 1840. "which -was as follows, dated from Walmer, in tliis year. ''^ " The Duke of Wellington presents his compliments to Mr. . The Duke has received Mr. — ■ — 's letter, and has no other answer to give than to advise liim to consult his physicians." I cut out the following from yesterday's Standard; Dec. 23. it is an extract from a speech of the Bishop of Exeter last week at his Diocesan Board of Education : — " He had been told by a distingiushed individual that when the Duke of Wellington returned from India, now about thirty years since, he found the whole country hot upon the subject of education, for the system of Lancaster was just then broached, and the matter appeared to have excited in every quarter the most lively interest. The Duke happened to be present ■one day at the house of a nobleman of high station, when the subject was taken up with considerable earnestness by the company, and he then took occasion to say, ' Take care what you are about, for unless you base all this on religion, you are only making so many clever devils.'" LONDON. 1841. Heard the Duke's speech in the House of Lords.* Jan. as. Conversation with him afterwards. We met him at dinner at Mrs. Mitchel's. Jan. 31. We dined with him at five o'clock to go to the Feb. 3. Haymarket, the others being Lord Salisbury and the * On the AJdress, when he dealt with the state of affairs in Europe. See ' Tho Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.), i. p. 370. 262 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1841. two Ladies Cecil. Lady Burgliersh afterwards joined "^ us at the play — which was " Money " and " The Ladies' Chib." I mentioned having met the Duke of V> * * * this afternoon at the Carlton. " Indeed. He wrote me word that he would not come to town until there was some motion for turning out the Ministers. I do not see how the House of Lords can do anything of the kind. They might turn out the Ministers — and turn out themsel\'es afterwards I Peb. 5. Friday. — The Duke taken ill at the House of Lords, at the same hour and nearly the same symptoms as before.* He had walked out that bitterly cold day, with very light clothing, as far as Poland Street, Avhere he wished to see some stoves for poor cottagers. It is a subject on which he feels much interest and makes several trials. I remember his telling me at Strath- fieldsaye that he intended to put an Arnott's stove in the cottage of every poor man on his estates, provided it could be brought to such improvement as to serve for cooking as well as for warmth. On returning from Poland Street he ate an early dinner in great haste, and immediately afterwards went out walking with Lady Douro. When he parted from her, he proceeded to the House of Lords in an open carriage. On being seen to totter and to drop his hat, he was supported by several peers, and brought home in Lord Brougham's carriage by the Duke of Eichmond. I first heard the. news in the House of Commons from Lord Stanley, near whom I was sitting. I hastened up to Apsley House; the Duke was then in his bedroom, already attended by Hume and Halford, and suffering, as we heard, from a * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part II.), i. p. 37.5. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 263 strong convulsion. In his sitting-room I found only i84l. the Duke of Eichmond and Lord Lonsdale at first ; ere ""^ long, however, Lord Douro, Lord Fitzroy Somerset, and others arrived. Dr. Chambers came about eight. Poor Sir Astley, I fear, is dying. The Duke rallied from this attack more rapidly than from any preceding one. To-day (the 8th) he is up again, out of his bedroom, dressed, and busied with his papers as usual. But he is still very weak and languid, and has hardly any appetite. On Saturday evening Arbuthnot arrived, having had a few lines from Lord Aberdeen, in the Hoiise of Lords, just after the Duke was removed from it. Early on Monday, Lord Charles "Wellesley came from Chesliire. ^ H^ ^ i^ ^ S'unday. — I dined at Apsley House to meet a party jiar. 7. of the foreign European Jlinisters. We were sixteen in all; and no Englishmen invited besides Lord Aberdeen, Lord Strangford, and myself. At the Duke's request I took the seat opposite to him, at the lower top of the table. He appeared in very good health and spirits, and the assurance of European peace, which has been confirmed within the last few days, seemed to add to the cheerfulness of the company. After dinner he addressed us in French, proposing a toast to the health of all the sovereigns in Europe — to the consolidation of peace — and to the harmony and good understanding between all the nations. This was drunk, and then, after a short pause. Prince Esterhazy, who, as highest in rank, sat on the Duke's right hand, turned round to him and addressed him in a few sentences very gracefully expressed — saying that the past was the domain of history, but that, both as to past and present, no man had done so much towards the preservation of 264 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1841. that peace which had just been mentioned, as the Duke "^ of Wellington himself — and proposing his good health. The whole company rose to drink it with much feeling. It was an interesting sight — very unlike the usual monotonous calmness and unvaried demeanour of a great London dinner. I spoke to the Duke in the evening on my intended motion with respect to convicts in the hulks. He observed that a great error had crept into all the modern theories of punishment — of considering the reformation of the criminal the main and chief object ; whereas the point to be, in the first place, secured, is the prevention of crime and the impression made Ijy the punishment upon the public mind. ■^' -Jit 3^ vff ■* Apr. 21. Walk with the Duke in the forenoon. In the evening we dined with him — a large party — the Duchess of Gloucester, the Duke of Cambridge, the Archbishop of York, &c., eighteen or nineteen in all. It was the Duke's night as Director of the Ancient Music, and we afterwards accompanied him to his concert. May 4. Met the Duke at a large party to dinner at Baron Brunnow's. Lady Burghersh told me that she thought the Duke's writing had within the last two years become much slower than before. Her reason for thinking so is this. She often goes to Apsley House in mornings to copy papers for the Duke, and used to find that he wrote as fast as she could copy — that as fast as she had tran- scribed one sheet, he had another ready for her. But now she finds that when she has done her sheet he has only half done his. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 265 Sunday. — ^We dined with the Duke, meeting Lord 1841. and Lady Wilton, Lord and Lady De Eos, Lord and Lady Burghersh, William Bankes, Eogers, and Edward Drummond. I repeated to the Duke a story I had heard of Lady Minto. Her Ladyship has a young daughter, who I suppose had of late often sat by when " those abomin- able Tories" were abused. A few days ago the little girl very naturally asked : " Pray, mamma, do tell me — are the Tories born wicked, or do tliey become wicked afterwards ? " Contrary to the opinion of every one, I think, present, the Duke thought that the Ministers had not any inten- tion of resigning. We dined at Apsley House. A large party to meet May 23. the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. iS' 7^ i(r ^^ -jfc Monday. — Walked with the Duke from Apsley Aug. 23. House to Lord Aberdeen's in Argyll Street. Conver- sation on politics. At Apsley House. The Duke received to-day a Aug. 27. letter from Lord Bristol in anticipation of the change •of government, and applying for promotion in the •diplomatic line for his son Lord William. The Duke replies as follows : — " My dear Loed, " I do not know how to answer your Lordship. I am not, and I hope never again may be, Secretary of State.* * 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), ii- PP^ 33-4, from which it .appears that tlie Duke wrote to Peel in June, 1S41, urging all the reasons why he should not hold office, but expressing his readiness to •clo anything serviceable to tlie Government. 266 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1841. " Of this I am quite certain ; I never will attempt to exercise an influence in the recommendation and selec- tion of gentlemen to appointments in any department over which I have no control. " Ever your Lordship's, &c., (Signed) " Wellingtox." Aug. 28. We dined at Apsley House, meeting there my father and sister, the Duke and Duchess of Beaufort, Lord and Lady Wilton, Lord and Lady Eosslyn, Lord and Lady de Eos, Mr. Eogers, and Mr. Arbuthnot. We. had the German singers during dinner and in the evening. Conversation with the Duke on the debates and the- retirement of Ministers. I said that I thought Eoebuck, Hawes, Sharman Crawford, and many others of the Eadicals seemed to be quarrelling among themselves for the vacant place of Hume; and I added that even the worst of them might fill it more ably than Hume had ever done. The Duke observed that Hume reminded him of a saying of Pere Elisee. In the flight from the Tuileries in 1815, when Napoleon was arriving, the Court of Louis XVIII. in their hurry and confusion forgot many things — they left behind, among others, the man always employed in dressing the King's legs. In giving an account of this afterwards, Pere Elisee described the different degrees of terror in the courtiers or ministers ; and when they came to tlie Due de Duras, the Duke asked if he too had been afraid. The ansM-er was : Non, h Due de Duras n'avait 2X(S 2xur ; il etait tivp bete jMvr ■voir le clanger ! So of Hume it may be said — he was so dull that he did not see to what Ids own arguments. o"- tended, or know when they were answered. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 267 At the begining of September Sir Eobert Peel formed 1841. Ms new administration * in ■n'hich the Dnke of Wellins- ton held a Cabinet seat without of&ce, and continned to lead the House of Lords, wliile the Earl of Aberdeen became Foreign Secretary. I did not accept the offer wliich was made to me to resume my former post as Under-Secretary of State in that department. Soon after my answer on that subject, I went abroad for several weeks. I did not visit "Walmer Castle this autumn, and the Duke also Avas there for a much shorter period than usual. It was from thence, however, that he wrote to me on my return. "Walmek Castle, Nov. 18, 1841. " Mi' DE.iE Lord Mahox, " I am very sorry to learn that Lady Mahon has not been well. We have had rough weather here. "Wind, snow, sleet, and rain in succession. I wish that I was at home in my warm comfortable house in Hants. But in these good times no workmen will finish any work. I cannot get them out of my house. I will not go into it while they are there. " I am much obliged to M. Botfield. As my porter will not receive parcels without an order from me, I enclose a scrap of paper with an order to receive a book sent by you. " Believe me ever " Yours most sincerely, (Signed) " 'WELLisctTON." 1842. Bonham, who dined with me to-day, told me that he Jan. l had been shown a few days back a letter from tlie * ' The Greville Memoirs' (Fart II.), ii. p. 37. 268 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. Duke of Wellington to a lady who had applied to him repeatedly for some appointment. It began as follows : — " I have had the honour of receiving your letter, and can only repeat that I do not intend to constitute myself Her Majesty's Solicitor-General ! " Jan. 24. A. Greville tells me that many replies of the Duke on such subjects now contain that phrase. Teb. 4. This day I was shown by Lord Camden the original of a very remarkable letter which his father received, as Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, from the Duke of Wellington. It is signed " A- Wesley," and dated Trim, June 25, 1795. The object of the writer is to be con- sidered for a place in either the " Treasury or Ilevenue Boards," but he expresses some apprehension that these places may be " too high " for him, adding " as I am convinced that no man is so bad a judge of the justice of a claim as he who makes it." He anticipates some surprise that he should apply for a civil and not a military appointment, which last line he would certainly prefer, but he sees no prospect of a vacancy ill it. STRATHFIELLSA YE. Mar. 38. Monday. — We arrived at Strathfieldsaye, where we found staying Lady Charlotte Greville, Algy, and his two daughters. Shortly after us came Lord Dalhousie, and later still Lord Charles Wellesley. We found also Mr. Heriot, the Duke's deaf secretary, and were joined at dinner by Captain and Mrs. Jones, and the Eev. Gerald. The Duke seems in very good health and spirits, hut lame from having sprained his foot in walking the day before. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 269 He took lue to liis room soon after I arri^-ed, to read 1842- ine a letter he is writing to Lord Ellenborough, on the ''^^ recent disasters in India, and the proper means for repairing them. One sentence strucli me particularly ; it began: "There is not a Moslem heart in India, from Constantinople to Pekin, that will not vibrate at re- flecting" — the reflection being, for further I cannot gi^e the precise words, that they had succeeded in seizing the persons of English ladies, after murdering Sir A^'illiam jMacXaghten, the representative of the English Crovernment.* (Conversation afterwards on some points in the tariff and the income-tax. The Duke is much struck with a suggestion on life or rather professional incomes con- tained in yesterday's Speciator. At dinner, in allusion to poor Lord Muuster and the command of the Western District, the Duke told us that he had been Governor of Plymouth for many years, and had lent the Governor's house to Lord Grey for several. When the King on Lord Hastings' death offered him the Tower, the Duke replied that he was perfectly satisfied with Plymouth, and valued it the more as having been conferred upon him by the Duke of York. The King then pressed him to keep both, Ijut this he did not think right to do, and he gave up Ply- mouth, understanding that the Duchess of Gloucester wished for the house. However, after all, George IV. refused to confer the governorsliip upon the Duke of Gloucester. His Eoyal Highness of Gloucester wished also to be Governor of one of the Channel Islands ; but it is an * ' The Greville Memoirs ' (Part 11.), ii. p. 89, and also p. 85, note. The full account of the Cabul disaster had reached England on March 7. Sec p. 274. 270 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. established maxim, says the Duke, of our councils never to entrust the government of such dependencies to a Prince of the Blood, who might possibly catch at some dream of an independent sovereignty. Mar. 29. The Duke told us at breakfast of a rap Madame de Lieven has lately received. She had written to j\I. Thiers, complaining that he so seldom called upon her. Thiers replied : Madame, j'aurai I'honneur d'aller vous faire ma cour quand vous ne sercz plus Ministre de France ! * -:;:- * -^ -* I told the Duke that I lately received a letter from Guizot, which I thought showed by its general tone and tenor that he was a little out of humour with us. " Nothing," said the Duke, " makes a man so much out of humour as his own faults — and Guizot has not behaved quite as he should on several late occasions." * -^- * -;^ ^ The Duke gave us an account of his visit to "Woburn to meet her Majesty. Not a single gentleman from the country was invited on that occasion by the Duke and Duchess of Bedford except Lord De Grey — the Lord- Lieutenant. * * * -* -Jf: In the afternoon we rode out to Bramshill, Lord Dalhousie and I on each side of the Duke. Lone and interesting conversation on the military events in India. ***** " A general is some time in learning how to put large bodies of troops in motion. I have often said that if there were eight or ten thousand men in Hyde Park, it is not every general that would know how to get them out .again. * * * I remember in the retreat from Bum-os * * 1812. jSTapier'a 'Peninsular War,' iv. p. 358. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 271 desiring one general of&cer (the Duke did not name 1842. him) to charge a French corps and drive it back over tlie river. The officer made all kinds of difficulties and objections, saying it could not be done. I answered, If you can't do it, I must try — so I had to go myself. Sir Edward Paget, I recollect, was quite surprised, and asked. Is this all you mean to do with him ? — tliinking that the officer ought to be punished. But I said. It is •only that he does not yet know the troops so well as I do. Depend upon it, it requires time for a general to inspire confidence — or to feel it ; for you never will have confidence in yourself until you see others have confidence in you." The Duke spoke of Mr. Mountstuart Elphinstone in terms of very high respect, and said he had given him his first appointment, the post of Eesident with the Eajah of Berar. ***** Poreign policy. * * * * * » « * " Louis Philippe combines the pretensions of the Prench Eevolution -with the pretensions of Louis XIV.* Por, whatever else the French revolutionists did or designed to do, tliey had certainly no views upon Spain. Now Louis Philippe has all their views upon the rest of the world, with all the views of Louis XIV. upon Spain." Pdde with the Duke and Lord Dalhousie. Mar. 30. Portuguese affairs, &c. I asked the Duke — re- collecting a former conversation I had with Mm at Apsley House — why a Portuguese division of troops * Ante, p. 37. 272 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. had not been sent as he wished into Flanders to assist him in the "Waterloo campaign.* " I am afraid that was Beresford's fault — at least, so I was told by Mr. Canning, who was the ambassador at Lisbon ; but he may have been mistaken. Beresford's object was that a combined Spanish and Portuguese army should enter France by way of Bayoune ; but that could not be done." Later in the afternoon there arrived the Duchess of Cambridge, with Princesses Augusta and Mary, and Baron Knesebeck, the Duchess of Gloucester, "and Lady Georgiana Bathurst, and Lord Douro. Ladies Douro and Dalhousie are both ill in London. * •» * * I was next the Duke after dinner. From Lord ilunster we came to speak of Lord Londonderry. He said that the King had discovered his state of mind, and sent for Lord Liverpool, whom he first swore to secrecy, and then told him, " Castlereagh's mad ! '' But Lord Liverpool, so far from attaching any weight to this idea or making any further inquiries, merely wrote to Lord Castlereagh, asking him to come to town next Wednesday, that they might finally settle every- thing together before he set out for Verona. On Wednesday : but on Monday he destroyed himself ! The Duke had also perceived that there was some- thing wrong in Lord Castlereagh.f As they were con- versing together, before the Duke's departure — for the Duke was bound on his annual tour of inspection to the fortresses in Flanders — Lord Castlereagh rang the bell furiously, and asked the servant. Who ordered that * Ante, p. 39, -whieli contradicts Napier's ' Peninsular War,' iii. p. 278. t Ante, p. 126. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 273 my horses should come to town ? — to which the man I842. replied that they had not come at all. This was only "^ one out of several things that convinced the Duke of Lord Castlereagh's state of excitement. But he seized the opportunity, as an intimate friend, to point out to Lord Castlereagh that he was certainly very far from well, and entreat him to put himself under medical advice, which Lord Castlereagh promised to do. The Duke even offered to give up his intended journey, if, by staying, he could be any comfort to his friend ; but Lord Castlereagh decluied, on the ground of the suspicion and inquiry which such a change of plan might raise. Before the Duke went, he wrote confi- dentially to Lord Castlereagh's physician, who did cup him once, but neglected to do so again. He had got as far as Brussels, when he was overtaken by a courier, announcing the catastrophe, and summoning him back to England immediately to assist in the reconstruction of the Cabinet. Gerald, who dines with us every day, and is a pleasant accession to any party, told me that Lord Wellesley's present state of health and strength at 82 is the more surprising, since at half that age his consti- tution appeared completely broken. Gerald has often heard his father. Lord Cowley, relate how ill and how nervous Lord "Wellesley appeared on going out to assume the government of India, and that when he came to the Cape he had quite made up his mind to return home. Only the most urgent entreaties and the strongest remonstrances from those around him, how much his character would suffer by such a step, could prevail upon him to proceed. 274 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1843. A rainy day ; we could not get out. The Duke read to me the remainder (or rather the whole over) of his letter to Lord EUenborough, which he did not finish till this morning: it is a most interesting and important document, and extending to thirteen small sheets of paper. « * * * # Sir Lowry Cole, Lady Frances, and some others, came to dinner. In the evening Sir Lowry and I were looking together at a print in the second billiard-room or second library of the battle of Toulouse. It is singular, said Sir Lowry, that the French should of all battles claim that as a victory ; I never saw them fight so ill. * * * At least at Orthez they did a hundred times better. Apr. 1. The Duke told us a story of Lord Bexley as Chan- cellor of the Exchequer. He had gone officially to inspect the Penitentiary at Millbank; all seemed in excellent order, and we accompanied the procession of ladies to chapel. But it appears that the ladies had previously had a quarrel in their refectory as to the quality of their bread ; they had armed themselves with samples, and in the midst of divine service they suddenly began to pelt the Chancellor of the Exchequer with the loaves they disapproved ! Lord Douro went to town to-day ; on the other hand. Prince George of Cambridge arrived. Several gentlemen and ladies from the neigh- bourhood came to dinner, and several more in the evening. Apr. 2. All their Eoyal Highnesses and their suite took their THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 275 departure, as also the musical ladies and gentlemen, and i842. also Lord DaUiousie. Douro brought Lady Douro from London, but she was not well enough to appear at dinner or after it. Walk with the Duke. Chinese and Indian affairs. At dinner Charles Wellesley told us that when Lord Jermyn was iirst installed in his Court ofice and re- qidred to go out riding with the Queen and her ladies, and anxiously iaquired what his duty was to be, some wag assured him that the duty of his office was to ride alongside the carriage of the maids of honour, to guard them and prevent any one else from communicating with them. And this, Jermyn implicitly believed and gravely performed ! Charles Wellesley gave us an instance of the evils attending the subdivision of departments. It hap- pened lately that some windows at Windsor Castle needed cleaning, but it was found that the outside of the panes belonged to one department (Woods and Forests) and the inside to another (the Lord Steward's) ; and as it is of no use cleaning one side without the other, both remained dirty for a con- siderable time, unto, the two departments could combine for this important end ! The Duke laughed. "1 remember when I was Secretary for Ireland that one institution wanted to get apartments which another, the Paving Board, already held. But where, I said, am I to put the Paving Boards ? Some one answered me — in the streets, to be sure — ^where they ought to be ! And so perhaps, if I had been the Queen on that occasion, I would have put the Woods and Forests out into the forest ! " T 2 2/6: NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. Sunday. — In the morning to church, in the afternoon Apr. 3. „ -^ "' a walk. The Duke spoke of the numerous and unreasonable applications which he has so often received from utter strangers. Not long since, at one of the University addresses to the Queen, he observed one very short gentleman, who was standing on tiptoe and straining every joint to obtain a glimpse of her Majesty. The Duke, finding that he could not succeed, and that no. one else seemed to have any mercy upon him, accosted him, placed him before himself, and afforded him an excellent view of the whole proceeding. " But what," said the Duke, " was my reward ? A few days after- wards I received a letter from this gentleman, thanking me again for the kindness I had shown him at Court, and hoping that I should show him a further kindness by the gift of a good living ! " Still stronger was an instance that occurred to the Duke many years since, while ambassador at Paris. He had gone in a plain frockcoat to see a great review at the Champ de Mars, not intending to take any part in the ceremony, but only to observe it. He obtained a chair in front, and was sitting there, when he saw a little boy behind, much disappointed at being shut out from any view. This little boy he mounted on the back of his own chair and held him fast, so as to provide at once for his seeing and his safety. Mean- while the French Princes, having gone round the field, had espied the Duke, and sent to invite him to mount his horse and join them. Before he did so, the Duke beckoned to him the little boy's father, yielded to him his chair, and recommended that he should carefully hold on the young gentleman, so that he might see the end of the show as well as its beginning.. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, 377 Several days later the Duke received a letter from this 1842. person, boasting of the care he had taken of the child — '^^ his own child! — according to the Duke's injunctions, and then proceeding to ask the Duke to oblige him by the loan of a considerable sum ! LONDON— WALMEB. We left Strathfieldsaye early this morning. The Apr. 4. Duke was to return to town himself the same day. A great dinner at Apsley House ; we met there the Duke and Duchess of Beaufort, Lord and Lady Aylesbury, Lord and Lady Chesterfield, Lord and Lady Westmore- land, Lord and Lady Wilton, Lords Granby and John Manners, Dr. Wellesley, and Mr. Eogers. The Duke has now received, and put up in the dining-room, by displacing Charles X., a full-length portrait of the late Emperor of Austria. In September of this year, upon the death of Lord Hill, the Duke was appointed for the second time Commander-in-Cliief. From Tottenham Park, in Wilt- shire, where we had gone upon a visit, I addressed to him my congratulations on the subject. We arrived at our cottage, Walmer ; next day we Sept. 21. dined with the Duke at the Castle. He has now staying with him, Lord Salisbury and Lady Blanche, Lord and Lady De Eos, Lady Douro, Mr. Arbuthnot, and Sir Andrew Barnard. Besides these, we met several of the neighbourhood to dinner. The Duke seems in high health and spirits. That evening he had had no summons to meet the Archduke at Windsor, and did not expect any, but the next day's post brought Vn'm a Eoyal invitation, and he was off in the afternoon, first, however, with Lady Douro paying us a visit. We 278 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. presented to him his little godson, to whom he showed — as he always does to children — the greatest possible kindness and good-nature, conversing with and ques- tioning the young fellow for some time. Little Edward showed a disposition to cry : he said, " You will not do so when you come to know me better." He expects to be back again on Monday, when he has engaged us to dinner. Sept. 26. Monday. — Accordingly we dined at the Castle, his visitors being now Lord Salisbury and Lady Blanche, Lord and Lady and Miss De Eos, Lady Douro, and Mr. Arbuthnot. The Duke had arrived from London very shortly before dinner, bringing with him the melancholy tidings of Lord Wellesley's death this morning. He seemed much depressed throughout the evening, and said little. His visitors, except Lady Douro and Arbuthnot, will leave him to-morrow morning. I never knew Lord Wellesley, but I do not like to see death enter into this family ! Sept. 29. We dined with the Duke ; the party being Lord Douro (who had arrived yesterday). Lady Douro, Mr. Arbuthnot, and Captain Watts. Prince and Princess Liechtenstein were expected from London, but did not come. I am sorry to find the harriers on this coast defunct : how many pleasant rides I have had out with them in former years in company with the Duke ! Sept. 30. We went to luncheon by appointment with the Duke. Prince Liechtenstein came over from Dover for an hour. Oct. 1. The Duke, Lady Douro, Lady Mahon, and I drove to Dover in his phaeton. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 279 Neumann arrived unexpectedly at the Castle this 1842. morning, ha\ing just landed from Calais ; upon ^Yhich '"■ ' the Duke wrote, to ask us to dinner this evening, and we went. Walked with the Duke on the Castle ramparts. He Oct. 4. then took me to his room, and read to me a memo- randum on the battle of "Waterloo, which he has drawn up lately. It is of great length, fillin g thirteen folio sheets — or rather half-sheets, the other half being left blank as usual in drafts. It is a truly interesting and important document. Some erroneous statements of General Von Clausewitz in a German history of that campaign are refuted, and it is unanswerably shown that the Duke was not surprised, but ready and prepared on all points. I was also much struck with the opinion incidentally expressed, that after the battle of the 16th it might have been a more judicious movement on the part of Napoleon to march against the right instead of the left of the English army — that is, along the chaussee from Mons to Hal and Brussels. But the Duke adds of Napoleon — that there never yet existed a general in whose presence it would have been more dangerous to make a false step. This memorandum is written throughout in the third person. " The Duke of WeUington heard — the Duke of Wellington did." It is to be lent to Lord Francis Egerton, who wishes to write an article upon Clause- witz's work in the ' Quarterly Eeview.' Meanwhile it goes back by to-night's post to Gurwood. The Duke has had to replace and write over again one of the sheets which was lost. Eode with the Duke to Dover. Lady Douro and oct. 5. Lady Mahon going ia the phaeton. 28o NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. Conversation on Indian affairs. The Duke is very strongly impressed with the difficulties in the way of obtaining back the prisoners from the Afghans. To buy them by a ransom would be dishonourable, and liable to every kind of evasion and chicanery ; if you march against the enemy, the captives may be removed in proportion as you advance further up the country ; if even you succeed in surrounding and besieging the stronghold in which they are detained, how can you guard against their being, in a sudden transport of rage, butchered before your eyes upon the ramparts? The Duke once knew (or even saw, I think he said) a case of the latter kind occur in India. We spoke about the vacant Garter. The Duke thinks it of great importance to the Order that it should now and then be given (as liis own and Lord Wellesley's) for actual service. If it be merely assigned as a sort of appendage to persons of high birth and rank, it will ere long come to be despised by these persons themselves. Galloped along the sands with Douro as far as Shellness. Oct. 6. I will add an anecdote he told me and his mother had told him. On one occasion an officer, whom Douro named to me, and whom I do believe to be very illiterate, came to the Duchess and said to her in much surprise : Here is a letter Sir Arthur has just given me to copy : but how strange — what can it mean ? Look, here are the words, " I conclude " — and yet afterwards come four columns of writing ! Oct. 7. The Duke set off this morning to attend Lord Wellesley's funeral, which is to take place to-morrow at Eton. Douro went also. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 281 The Duke returned at half-past ten this night. A 1842. long day for him. We saw him next morning at church, and he appears none the worse. Eode with the Duke towards Waldershare. Oct. 10. I repeated to the Duke a new mot of Lady Aid- borough. I heard it from the Dowager Lady Sandwich, who is now on a two-days' visit to us. She (that is, Lady Aldborough) went to Court at the TuUeries soon after the last attempt to shoot Louis Philippe, and when there was also a rumour of his dropsy, which had just been contradicted "on authority." She thus addressed him: Sire, je vous felicite; je vois qiie vous avez ete a I'epreuve du feu — et de I'eau ! — giving him, with these words, a vigorous punch in the stomach, to indicate where the peril of water had been feared! This, though not exactly in the style of Louis Quatorze, was from its novelty highly agreeable to his present representative, who has been talking of it ever siuce. The Duke said that she was an extraordiaary old woman. TTis aides-de-camp in France had more than once ventured on an April fool's prank — a poisson d'Ati-U with her. Of this he gave several instances. Her exact age is a problem. Once, some years ago, when the Duchess-Countess of Sutherland was told of Babbage's machine to calculate, as was declared, even the most impossible things ; " Then," she said, " I wish he would calculate two things for me : first. Lady Aldborough's age, and secondly, whether by any chance the Tories will ever come back to power ! " This story the Duke has lately (on Babbage's machine being mentioned) repeated to the Queen, her Majesty appearing greatly amused with it. 282 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. Our conversation in the course of our three hours' ride afterwards took a far more serious turn. The Duke said that the necessity of national education, and the best means for it, often occupied his thoughts, and he explained to me the outlines of a plan which he thought would best meet the difficulties of the case. He spoke with miTch emphasis and deep and earnest feeling on the public duty as well as the public interest involved in teaching every man what he owes to the Almighty, to his neighbours, and to the State — recurring more than once to each of these three branches. I do not feel, however, that I can with perfect accuracy and quite to my own satisfaction put down even the outline of what he said, and in these cases it is my rule to put down nothing at all. But I remember these precise words on the Church: "It is the Church of England that has made England what she is — a nation of honest men ! " ***** Present politics. Eemarks on one statesman who has, at least four times in his career, repeated the same error, though warned each time after the first, and finding on each occasion ill effects ensue. It results from a willingness to trust verbal communications in negotiating instead of written statements. Eetrospect on the Eeform Bill. Talleyrand's mot, glancing at Lord Grey : Le cours des affaires aujourd'liui c'est de fain ce qu'on a dit quarante ans auparavant devoir alors etre fait ! * In the evening we dined at the Castle, accompanied by Lady Sandwich, and meeting there Mr. James and Captain Watts. ***** * Ante, p. 239. i THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 283 I have been painfully struck at remarking how much 1842. the Duke's sources of enjoyment and relaxation are yearly declining. When iirst I knew him, who so fond of himting and shooting ? The latter he has more than eight years, the former more than two, relinquished. Eiding he still uses as a means of health, but seems much less to delight in. Country visits were once very agreeable to him ; from these he now wholly abstains. But what strikes me most of late is the loss of his taste for music. Formerly, whenever Lady Mahon or any other lady accomplished in music dined with him, he Avas always eager for some songs, and delighted in them when sung : now he often omits to ask for, or if he does ask for seems more apathetic in hearing, them. I have within the last year, or year and a-half, observed nearly the same of him at concerts. Thus one by one all his pleasures have dropped from him like leaves from a tree in winter. One only remains— public or private business — ^which (labor ipse vohiptas) he transacts with undiminished alacrity and readiness. His zeal for the public service — ^his determination to fill his part and do his duty — will never, I am persuaded, end but with his life. ■Jif ■jS' ** w ^ In the mornitig our present quartetto — Lady Douro, 0"'- 10. Lady Mahon, Arbuthnot, and I — drove in the phaeton to the ruins of St. Eadigund's Abbey, three miles beyond Dover, where we took Irmcheon on the grass, under a bright autumn sky and beside the old ivied walls. In the evening we dined at the Castle, Captains Watts and Vincent, Mr. West, and Dr. MacArthur. Lord Hertford and Colonel Gurwood arrived from 384 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. London just as dinner began, but left us early for Dover, where they would sleep, and next day embark for Ostend. Lady Sandwich left us this morning. Eode out with the Duke to Dover. ■Oct. 12. He has had with him Mr. Booth, who manages his estate in the Low Countries. By care and skill that estate has now come to be worth three times as much as when first conferred upon the Duke ; and as it is a majm'at, always to descend to the title, while other Belgian estates are by law divided among the children, Mr. Booth says that after the death of the Duke d'Aremberg the Duke will be the largest landed proprietor in that country.* The estate in Spain is very far from being in so flourishing a condition. The Duke has just returned its net proceeds for the income-tax at 800Z. a year. In old times the estate used to be termed worth 8,000/. a year, but the Duke used to receive about 2,000/. ■Oct. 15. I walked with the Duke. He afterwards took nie into the Castle, and showed me a copy of his confidential letter to Lord EUenborough of the 9th inst. It has not, I fear, been in time for this month's packet. The Duke does not believe that there is any founda- tion for the reports of fresh disaster, wliich the Standard of yesterday derives from Major Messiter's letter. But he is fully determined that if the reports thus prove untrue, and the letter written on hasty gossip, he will call Major Messiter to rigorous account for it. Algernon Greville arrived at the Castle last night. -Oct. 18. Lady Douro has been indisposed for several days. * See p. 255. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 285 The Duke has taken great care of her, and refrained 1842. from inviting any company. "Walked with the Duke to Kingsdown, &c. Con- Oct. 19. versation on the news from Canada. His letter to Sir James Graham on the subject. We had a party to dinner. One of them — Dr. Mac- Oct. 20. Arthur — ^was summoned suddenly away on the Duke's account ; a small partridge bone had stuck in his throat at dinner, but Dr. MacArthur forced it downwards by an instrument. We have some hounds at last : the Thanet harriers Oct. 21. are to come over and hunt in this country once or twice a week. I drove with the Duke in his curricle towards IsTorthbourne Mill ; then we mounted and had a pleasant ride ; we ran and killed two hares ; and the ladies were out in the phaeton. In the evening we dined at the Castle, accompanied by Lady Suf&eld, and meeting there (besides Lady Douro, Arbuthnot, and A. Greville) Captain Watts and Mr. James. The Duke is reminded, by his partridge bone last night, of his friend the Monteiro Mor in Portugal, who, having on one occasion eaten a partridge whole, feathers and all, used ever after to date his letters from the year of the Partridge. So the Duke says, laughing, that he will hereafter date so many months — or so many days — from his bird ! ***** We talked of Le Grand Frederic, respecting whom I have this last week shown the Duke some curious papers. I said that Macaulay had lately called him in 386 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842, the ' Edinburgh Eeview ' the greatest sovereign who in modern times lias ascended a throne by hereditary right ; and I added that, though I feel very unwilling to admit this praise of such a man, I did not see what rival could be opposed as a better claimant to it except perhaps Gustavus Adolplius. The Duke replied that he thought Frederick much superior in military genius to Gustavus. . ■Oct. 23. Sunday. — We dined with the Duke, accompanied by Lady Suffield, and meeting Lord Strangford, who has rambled over from Eamsgate this afternoon. 'Oct. 26. Dinner at Walmer Castle ; the Duke, Lady Douro, Ai'buthnot, A. Greville, ourselves, and Lady Suffield, Lord C. Wellesley, who has come down for a couple of days' visit to his father, and Captain Fisher, who has arrived at Dr. MacArthur's for about as long. Conversation with Captain Fisher and myself on the state of the British Navy. The Duke thinks one main cause of its ascendency is to be found in the superior education of our officers. 'Oct. 27. Walked before the castle on the sea-lawn with the Duke and Arbuthnot. Canada ; reports of Lord Melbourne's illness ; pro- bable effects of his retirement from the scene of politics ; fresh troubles of Lord Cardigan, &c. The Duke told me of a translation into English verse by Lord Stanley of Lord Wellesley's Latin lines for his inscription at Eton. He has had them from Lady Wilton, and is to show them me. He has been extremely hard-worked these last two days, and appears much worn and fatigued. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 287 Lady Suffield left us this morning. 0^t*28 About ten o'clock the Duke drove me in his curricle to meet the harriers towards ISTorthbourne Mill; we then mounted, and had a fine day, and a good run. In the afternoon the Duke showed me a copy of his letter of the 26th inst. to Lord FitzGerald, on Lord EUenborough's omitting to communicate to his Council copies of his orders when himself absent from Calcutta. In the evening we dined at the Castle. Lady Douro, Arbuthnot, Greville, and ourselves. I saw the copy of the letter written by the Duke this afternoon to Lord Aberdeen, relating to the notification by the French Government of their refusal to ratify the Slave Trade Treaty. Jp -K' '^ * ■jp We talked of Lord Liverpool's Government. I said that I thought it justly liable to the reproach of failing to seek out and promote men of rising talent; that, unlike most of the governments that have" succeeded it, all its thoughts were centered in the present manning of the principal of&ces, and that it never dreamt of pro- viding, what gardeners would call, a " seminary " of young statesmen, Arbuthnot denied this charge ; but the Duke admitted it, and then Arbuthnot acquiesced. The Duke said that he had heard the blame of this defect laid on Manners Sutton, who, as Speaker, would neither call on the younger members nor yet keep order while they spoke, so that most of them were afraid to venture. ^ ■Jjt ^ * * The Duke said that he had never heard Stanley speak nor Peel except in a room — but once when he moved as Chairman of the Currency Committee his resolutions for the resumption of cash payments. The 288 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. Duke was greatly struck witli the ability of that speech. Lord Castlereagh's in reply was on the other hand so very bad, that the Duke as his friend could not bear to hear , any more of it, and so he walked out of the House. Arbuthnot said that exactly the same effect had been produced upon himself, and that he remembered as he went into the lobby meeting the Duke, and finding as^ they conversed that they had left the House at the same time and for the same reason. ***** Sir Eobert Peel had gone to Arbuthnot (as the latter mentions) and expressed his wish to be on the Currency Committee ; upon which, on consultation between Lord Liverpool and Arbuthnot, it was resolved to propose him as chairman. ***** Sir Eobert's resignation of the Irish Secretaryship in 1818 was not connected with any political motive; he was tired of the office, and so threw it up.* When Canning resigned the Presidency of the Board of Control upon the Queen's trial, it was offered to Peel, who expressed himself obliged, but declined it. Arbuthnot states that he was willing and ready if called upon and requii'ed to lead the House of Commons on Lord Londonderry's death in 1823,t and stated as much in a letter from Scotland to Lord Liverpool, but this letter Lord Liverpool not very handsomely sup- pressed in his communications with the King. 3P ' ^ ■ ■'S' ^ ^ On Lord Talbot's recall from Ireland the Duke tells me that many of the Ministers were anxious to send * See • The Croker Papers,' i. p. 117. t Lord Londonderry died in 1822, THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 289 him as Lord-Lieutenant. He would have gone if they 1842. had made a point of it, but endeavoured to dissuade '"^ them, observing that it would be wiser in them to keep him in reserve for a more pressing occasion or more special emergency. Lord Castlereagh took the same line in Cabinet (for a Cabinet was held upon this very point), and said, " You should not fire your great gun at a sparrow " * — upon which the idea was relinquished and the offer transferred to Lord Wellesley. The Duke would still have been ready to go, had disturbances broken out or a change of military system become necessary. ***** The Duke and I rode to Dover, while Ladies Douro oot. 29. and Mahon drove thither in the pony phaeton. Afterwards we dined at the Castle. Conversation on Mr. Canning, &c. Arbuthnot assured us, as a fact within his personal and positive knowledge, that the true reason of Lord Chatham's appointment to command the Walcheren expedition was the following : — Mr. Canning had been anxious during the Duke of Portland's government that whenever the Duke withdrew he might succeed him as Prime Minister. He found, however, that from various circumstances there woidd be great obstacles in the way, and he therefore next turned his mind to the scheme of making Lord Chatham First Lord of the Treasury, and of being himself the real Minister under this phantom of power. With this view, and fuUy persuaded that the Walcheren expedition must succeed, he urged Lord Chatham's appointment to its command — that the lustre resulting from it * Aide, p. 44. :29P NO.TES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. on his return might prepare the path for his official elevation. « * » * * Mr. Canning, says Mr. Arbuthnot, was very near accepting the Secretaryship for Foreign Affairs when it was offered him on the formation of Lord Liverpool's Government — indeed he had accepted it; but Lord Granville, and one or two other of his friends, per- suaded him that it would be below his dignity to leave the lead of the House of Commons to Lord Castlereagh. Accordingly, he wrote Lord Liverpool a letter of refusal, saying at the close some words to this effect, " In short, I will not serve under Lord Castlereagh." Afterwards he bitterly regretted the decision to which he had come, and was not a little angry with his friends, who had dissuaded him from accepting the office. * * * » * The Duke showed me two letters he has written this day — one to Lord FitzGerald on the same subject as on the 26th, the other to Mr. Goulburn, on a Survey. He always spells the name " Goldborne," as I rather think Mr. Goulburn did himself when he first entered public life. Oct. 30. Walked with the Duke after church. Some conversation on the voice and tone of the Eev. H. Wilberforce, who preached this morning, led the Duke to some general remarks on enunciation. Of all the nations that he knew, he said, the Spaniards have the clearest. When he first entered Spain, having but lately learned the language, and knowing it as yet but slightly, he had to receive a deputation, and to hear an harangue from the Cabildo of Plasencia, when so clear THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 291 and distinct was their enunciation that to his own 1812. surprise he perfectly understood every word. ""^ He mentioned (as I have heard from him before) that he had learnt Spanish on his passage out, by means of a Spanish prayer-book — that is, a translation into Spanish of the English Common Prayer. This volume had belonged to the Duke of Ormond, who possibly may also have learnt Spanish from it in his ex- peditions against Cadiz and Vigo, in 1702. It was presented to the Duke by Lady Eleanor Butler. Many years after, it being then in the library at Strath- fieldsaye, he gave it to Lady De Eos ; but when Lady "VVilton was undertaking an excursion to Spain, the Duke obtained for her the loan of it. We called together at Deal Castle, where Lady Eitzroy Somerset has arrived on a visit to Lord and Lady Mornington. To-morrow the Duke will go up to London in order to attend the Cabinet the next day. The Queen's visit to Walmet, &c. Lord D our arrived at the Castle. Oct. 31. The Duke returned from London this afternoon, and Nov. 3. we dined with him. Arbuthnot having taken his departure yesterday, the party consisted only of Lord and Lady Douro, and Captain Watts and ourselves. We dined again at the Castle, meeting, besides Lord not. 4. and Lady Douro, Mr. Hardwick, an architect of very agreeable manners and intelligent conversation, who has come down to make arrangements for the Queen's approaching visit. This morning at eight the Duke, and Lord and Lady Nov. 5. Douro at ten, left the Castle for London. u 2 292 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1842. Tuesday. — We arrived at Stratlifieldsaye from London. A large party met here to-day. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Augusta, and the Prince of Mecklenburg, attended by Lady A. Somerset and Baron Knesebeck ; the Duchess of Gloucester, attended by Lady G-. Bathurst; M. Dedel, Lords March and "Worcester, Lord and Lady Douro and Lord C. Welles- ley, A. Greville; in addition to whom there were two professional gentlemen and as many ladies who dined with us in the evening, and sung to us after dinner. ; Dec. 7. A thick fog ; there was, however, both hunting and shooting. Lord FitzGerald arrived this afternoon, and also M. de Neumann; Captain and Mrs. Brown came to dinner; altogether there were, I believe, twenty-eight at table. Dec. 8. The thick fog continues with true British pertinacity. We went out shooting, however. The Speaker and Mrs. Lefevre and Sir John Cope came to dinner. Dec. 9. This morning the whole party departed, leaving only Lord and Lady Douro, Lord C. Wellesley and Mr. A. Greville, and ourselves. The Duke has been much busied these two days with a Memorandum on the Medals and Emblems lately granted by Lord Ellenborough to the troops in India, without reference to the Government at home. That Memorandum goes by to-night's post to Sir Eobert Peel. Dec. 10, We set off immediately after breakfast for London. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 293 LONDON— 8TRATHFIELD8ATE. Sunday. — The Duke dined ■with us in Grosvenor 1843. Place. We had, to meet him, Lord Salisbury and Lady ^^' Blanche, Sir James and Lady Graham, my sister, Sir WiUiam Follett, and Lord Eedesdale. The Duke told me that he had never heard of the Gates of Somnauth whilst he was in India. Tuesday. — ^We dined with the Duke en tres fetit Mar. 28. comiie, meeting, as usual with his very small parties, in his own sitting-room, going to the secretary's room for dinner, and returning to his own room afterwards. There were only Lady Douro (Lord Douro being con- fined at home with a cold). Lord Charles Wellesley, and Mr. Arbuthnot. I asked the Duke if he had ever been acquainted with Warren Hastings ? He replied that he had, but not until after his return from Spain. They had met at a public dinner, and Hastings had called on him several times afterwards. After dinner the ladies went to the Opera with Mr. Arbuthnot, and I returned to the House of Commons. * # * » * Gurwood showed me the copy of a remarkable des- May 9. patch, dated Dublin Castle, May 7, 1807, which the Duke, as Secretary for Ireland, addressed to Lord Hawkesbury. It relates to the measures for the de- fence of that country, in anticipation of a French in- vasion and an Irish rebellion. What it recommends is the formation of a naval station in Bantry Bay, and the fortification of certain inland points to protect the lines of communication and the stores and magazines : 294 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1843. — " I am not sufficiently acquainted with the details to be enabled to state the number and the situation of these places ; but upon a rough view of the subject, and con- sidering Dublin, for the reasons wlaich I shall state presently, as the point of communication with England, I think that a place of this description in each of the provinces of Ulster, Munster, and Connaught, and two in Leinster, on the lines of defence from the Shannon, would answer all the purposes which I have in view. " Whenever a subject of this kind is considered, the expense attending it is a material part of the considera- tion. According to my notions on the subject, I might perhaps omit to advert to it, for I really consider a measure of this description to be indispensable. I am convinced that unless we should adopt it, Great Britain will lose her dominion in Ireland as soon as the French are enabled to attack us in such numbers as to employ a large proportion of our regular force." He adds in another passage : " I shall conclude this part of the subject, by telling you that I am positively convinced that no political mea- sure which you could adopt would alter the temper of the people of this country. They are disaffected to the British Government ; they don't feel the benefits of their situa- tion ; attempts to render it better either do not reach their minds, or they are represented to them as addi- tional injuries ; and in fact we have no strength here but our army." June 4. Sunday. — This afternoon I drove down with Lord Mahon to Strathfieldsaye. We arrived at six; about seven came the Duke, bringing down Lady Douro in his carriage, and Douro travelled by the railroad. This was the whole party this evening. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 295 The Duke appears in very good health and spirits. 1843. I had a long conversation with him on the affairs '"^ both of Ireland and India. To one eminent person mentioned he applied the line, " Qtcem Deus vult joerdere prius demcntat." He admits the great difficulties of Ireland at present, but is confident of overcoming them. Algernon Greville arrived with the two Miss June 5. Grevilles, and we had G-erald WeUesley to dinner. The Duke was very busy all day, hoping, as he told me, to clear off his other papers, and be able to give up his time and thoughts' to the Indian mail when it arrives. At luncheon he related to us that the Queen had been originally christened Alexandrina Victorina — the latter after her mother, who was also Victorina, not Victoria. But the name was altered at the time of Queen Caroline's trial, when Bergami's daughter — la, petite Victorina — came to be so often mentioned in the proceedings, and commented upon — not very favourably — by the public. This anecdote I have heard the Duke relate before. But on the present occasion he added that George the Fourth, who was godfather, had intimated his wish that some one of the family names — Charlotte, Augusta, Caroline, or Sophia (Sophia, said the Duke, a name they ought to make a point of retaining in that House) — might be given to the young Princess, in addition to the rest. But the Duke of Kent insisted on calling her only after the Emperor Alexander and his own consort. Upon this George the Fom-th, much affronted, refused to attend the christening. 296 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1843. The Duke related (this, by-the-bye, he told us not to-day, but last • night) how many years ago, when travelling to Ireland, he happened to hear from his chaise at Chester an of&cer drilling his men, and giving the word of command, "Wigs to the rear!" This might to some ears have seemed to carry a political construction, but the meaning was merely that the front rank might consist only of fine young fellows. ***** The Duke is now always up and out (for a walk) before seven in the morning. Conversation at and after dinner upon Dr. Pusey's sermon at Oxford, the Bishop of London's charge, and the debate on the bishopric of Bangor ia the House of Lords. In the evening the Duke read through to himself the contents of seven or eight boxes from the Foreign Office. He had said at dinner, relatively to such masses of papers being sent to him, not only by his colleagues, but by so many other persons, " They forget that the Duke of Wellington has only one pair of eyes, and only a certain number of hours in the day like other people." June G. The Duke and I each received a letter from Lord Ellenborough this morning. Conversations on Indian affairs. A difficult position to maintain between the " doUances of our friends in Downing Street, and the songs of triumph of our friend at Agra." Conversation on Ireland. The number of troops there at present is 16,000 — only two-thirds, says the Duke, what it was ten years ago. June 7. After breakfast we returned to London. WALMEB—STBATBFIELDSA YE. Nov. 4. We arrived at Walmer Castle from Chevening. No THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 297 one is staying with the Duke at present, but Lord and 1843. Lady Douro, Mr. Arbuthnot, and Mr. Greville. "We ""^ also met, however, as guests this evening to dinner, Captains "Watts and Vincent, Dr. MacArthur and Mr. Hard wick. * i^ ^ i^ ^ The Duke told me that in the interview which he had ■with Espartero,* the General mentioned having seen the Duke at Cadiz, he being then a lad of fifteen in the Co7ys du Genie, He added that he would have known him again. Sunday. — The Duke stayed at church after the service Nov. 5. to take the sacrament. At dinner and in the evening the Duke spoke in high praise of a book published this year by Mr. Jones, tending to prove the descent of the Mexicans from the people of Tyre after the taking of that city by Alexander the Great. The Duke considers the proof to be most ably traced, and most fully established. I had never heard of the book before; he has promised to lend it me. * # * * * " Canning I think was readier at writing than even at speaking, I never in my life knew so great a master of his pen."t The Duke went on to describe how ably Mr. Canning drew up papers in Cabinet, so as to combine various opinions, and how far from tenacious he was of his own words or expressions in the first draft. ***** The Duke told me that short as was Mr. Canning's * Ante, p. 161. t See ' The Grefille Memoirs ' (Part I.), i. p. 107. 298 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1843. life after becoming Prime Minister, it was long enough to convince himself that his government was not likely to prosper and be permanent. He had various schemes in contemplation : one, which he entertained in some degree for some days, to go into the House of Lords and confront Lord Grey : another, which was talked of between Canning and Knighton and the King, was that he should accept the Duchy of Lancaster, and travel a while in Italy for his health. I asked the Duke as to a story which I have read this very afternoon in the third volume of Mr. Staple- ton's Memoirs of Mr. Canning — that the Duke of York had at the commencement of his last illness written to advise the King to form a government upon a united anti-Catholic basis — that the King had shown this letter to Mr. Canning — that Mr. Canning had in consequence intended some strong remonstrances or strong measures, but that he had postponed them until the convalescence of His Eoyal Highness. The Duke said that this narrative was not exactly accurate, but had a founda- tion ; that the Duke of York had addressed a letter to the King at the time when Mr. Canning was supposed to be rising in the Eoyal favour, not counselling a united anti-Catholic government, but warning his brother per- sonally against Mr. Canning as a man or a minister. * * ^fr * * " Sir Astley Cooper reminded me some time back of what I said to him when we met at the Duke of York's door during his last illness, — Save his life if you possibly can, for after him comes chaos ! " Nov. 6. The Duke lent me Mr. Jones's volume to read. Some time back he hurt his foot by letting fall some scalding water upon it, so that he cannot walk much THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 299 at present. The whole of this day, however, was 184S. incessant rain. " How angry I used to make Alava by telling him Nov. 7, how seldom I had been asked out to dinner in Spain.* The truth is that it is not at all the custom of the country. I never dined but three times at the house of any Spanish gentleman — once at the wedding of the Duchesse d'Abrantes, once at the Bishop of Plasencia (I think he said), and once with the Marques de Santa Cruz. At the Bishop's the whole dinner consisted of boiled beef and another dish of sausages. At the Marques's the nurses and other female servants or attendants came to the dinner-table, as seemed to be their rule, to cut off each a portion for herself. ***** "Alava had been a naval officer until the French invasion brought him and most other Spanish naval officers into the military service for the defence of the country. He used to say that until he came to my headquarters he had always been on the losing side- fighting against the English at sea and against the French on land. i(& TJf ilt ^ifr ■* " Mon oncle VInguisiteur was a favourite subject with him. This uncle was the Grand Inquisitor of the Kingdom." The Duke gave us an account of Sir C. Campbell's Nov. 8. bad French. When he wished his dinner to be arranged on the table, he used, as it were, to address the dishes : Bif-teck venez %ci ! Fetits pates allez la ! At St. Jean de Luz, the Mayor was going by mistake * Ante, p. 187. 300 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH ^^- to take his umbrella instead of his own, when he ex- claimed emphatically, Monsieur le Mairc, moine (mine) ! Moinc, Monsieur le Maire ! Account of the battle of Salamanca and of the previous manoeuvres. I cannot accurately repeat them all. There was a good fort in Alba de Tormes, the ancient castle of the dukes of that name, and a good officer was stationed there with orders to defend it, which he would have done without difficulty against a retreating army. During the battle, Don Carlos d'Espagne came up to ask the Duke whether this fort ought not to be evacu- ated: the Duke replied decidedly in the negative; nevertheless, Don Carlos did without telling him send orders to the officer in command to quit the fort. " Had he only told me," said the Duke, " it would not have signified." The Duke then hearing the fire of some guerillas in his front, supposed it to come from the French army in retreat ; and taking no further thought of Alba, which he imagiaed to be well secured, pushed on in the direction of the fords. There he sent out a patrol, and then it appeared that no French had taken that route. It was then dark night, and Lord Combermere, who had rode out with that patrol, was severely wounded in galloping back by one of our own sentries. Hov. 9. The Duke showed me Lord EUenborough's letter to the Secret Committee of August 28th, in reply to theirs of July 6. Conversation on India and on Ireland. A party of officers from Dover, and of other gentlemen from the neighbourhood, dined here to-day. KoT. 10. Lord Dalhousie, two Lords John Hay, uncle and THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 301 nephew, Captain Vincent, and Dr. MacArthur, came to 1843. dinner. ''^ I rode out witli the Duke to meet the harriers. Nov. 11. Conversation on the politics of France and some of our home affairs. We had at dinner a party of gentlemen from Dover, &c. To church in the morning. The Duke did not go Nov. 12. out afterwards, but remained in his room until dinner. At dessert he told me — as we were talking of Lord Stuart de Eothesay — how strange an appearance was presented by his Lordship's room at Lisbon. He would neither lay by nor yet bum the majority of letters and papers which he received, but threw them on the floor, where they remained untouched (for no housemaid was ever allowed to enter), so that one was above one's knees wading through the mass whenever one had a conference with the ambassador. Prince Metternich, said the Duke, used his room pretty much as other people do their desk or despatch- box. He had a kind of padlock upon the door, which he closed after him in going out, and carried the key in his pocket. When the Duke has been there late at night, in conferences, Prince Metternich used always at the close to put out the candles himself, and after following out his visitors, secure his door, where the papers yet lay about the table. I observed that such a plan would answer better in Germany than in most other countries, because there the wood is piled into the stove from a recess outside the room, so that an apartment may be kept perfectly warm, although no servant should have access to it. 302 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1843. This morning, after breakfast, we left the Duke and returned to Chevening. The Duke himself is to proceed to London to-morrow afternoon, after holding the Harbour Sessions at Dover. 1844. Apr. 13. This forenoon I arrived at Strathfieldsaye. Besides the Duke himself, I found there Lord and Lady Douro, Lord 0. Wellesley, Sir John and Lady Shelley, Mr. Arbuthnot, Mr. Eogers, Mr. A. Greville and his daughter, and two Miss Hope Veres. In the afternoon I rode with the Duke, Lady Douro, and Lady Shelley. In the evening Lord and Lady Norreys arrived. Apr. 14. Saturday. — Another ride, &c. Thanks to Lady Douro's harp and to Lady Norreys' voice, we have excellent music in the evening. I asked the Duke to-day again about his visit to the field of Plassey. He said that he found the house where it was reported that Clive had slept in the middle of the day, in ruins ; it was, he added, Pucka- built, that is strong, of brick and mortar; but never- theless it had yielded to the effects of the climate. I asked him if the celebrated mango-grove still remained at that time ? After a little reflection, he answered that he thought there were some trees about the house. The Duke showed me his Memorandum, written March 30, at night, respecting the present intentions of the Court of Directors on their Governor-General. I showed him the letter (dated Camp, February 3) which the last Indian mail has brought me from Lord EUenborough. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 303 Conversation on this subject. 1844. ***** Sunday. — To church in the morning. I walked alone with the Duke in the afternoon. India — Spain — the Factory Bill. After dinner, on some more general conversation as to the greatness and wonder of our Indian empire, the Duke told me the following story : — At Paris, after the peace, meeting one day at a party the celebrated mathematician La Place, this gentleman came up and told him that, according to a calculation he had made, our empire in India would terminate in so many years. After a pause, said the Duke, I asked him on what facts or grounds his calculation was founded ? He answered, On the experience of other colonies. But there, I said, I would stop you, for our empire in India is not a colony. He was much surprised. Comment! pas une colonic ! No, I said, it is not a colony ; it is a settlement; and it is just because it is not a colony that it has lasted so long, and wiU, I believe, last so much longer. The Duke proceeded to develop his meaning as to the great difference between ruling tribes of natives, or descendants of one's own early colonists. Monday. — Mr. Eogers left us this forenoon, as did also Lord Douro and Lord Charles. On the other hand. Captain and ]\Irs. Brown and Miss Walmisley came to dinner. Tuesday. — The whole party broke up, and all, Apr. 16. including the Duke himself, returned to London. 304 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1844. "We arrived at our "Walmer villa in the first days of October, but the Duke was absent, to take leave of Count Nesselrode and to welcome King Louis Philippe. He returned to "Walmer Castle on Wednesday the 16th, accompanied by Lord and Lady Charles Wellesley. Next day we dined with him, the only other guest being Captain Watts. The Duke says that he does not think Louis Philippe at all altered since he saw him last, though so many years have elapsed. Jurisdiction of the House of Lords. ***** Oct. 18. "We dined with the Duke again. The Countess Powlett had arrived on a visit to him, and we met at dinner her son Lord Hinton and another officer of the 68th, now quartered here, and Captain Watts. " As poor G-eorge the Fourth used to say of Kelly, who called himself an importer of wine and a composer of music, that it ought to be the reverse — an importer of music and a composer of wine ! " * ^ ^ ^ -^ ^ National education — Lord Wharncliffe's speech. ***** Oct. 19. I rode with the Duke and Lady Powlett. Lord Strangford arrived on a morning visit from Canterbury, and the Duke asked him to remain for some days. Oct. 21. We diaed at the Castle. Algy Greville arrived from London just as we were sitting down, and besides the other visitors staying here the guests were Captain Watts, Lord Hinton, and Lord William Powlett, who is commanding officer of the regiment stationed here. * See Moore's Sheridan. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 305 Conversation with the Duke on the Oxford Tract- 1844. arians. ""^ * * * # # The Duke told us of a transaction some months ago — how he received a memorial from several clergymen of I'embroke College, complaining of the election of Dr. Jeune as master, and declaring that it had been carried by means of persons not entitled to vote. On tliis memorial the Duke decided according to its prayer. But after his decision, he received a counter statement on the other side, controverting all the facts which had been alleged as certain ; the Duke was convinced that he had been misled, and reversed his iirst sentence. But he directed that his correspondence on this subject should be inserted in the public records of Pembroke College; and here he quoted, as he said, the exact words of his last letter — as a warning to himself and to those who might hereafter stand in the same situation — never to decide on any ex-parte statements, even when they came from clergymen of the Church of England ! There is certainly something very magnanimous in desiring, for the sake of example, to put on public record one's own error. How such an idea would make stare and smile ! Eide with the Duke and Lady Powlett. I observed, Oct. 22. on iirst setting out, that the Duke, mindful no doubt of his many former rides over this very ground with poor Lady Salisbury, called her inadvertently by that name, but immediately corrected himself. Dinner at "VValmer Castle. Lord Strangford had set Oct. 23. out at seven this morning, and Arbuthnot arrived at X 3o6 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1844. seven this evening. We met besides as guests three "^^ officers of the 68th, and Dr. ilacArthur, Captain Vincent, and Mr. James. I talked to the Duke on India. He has, I find, a strong opinion against the idea of transforming tlie seat of government from Calcutta to one of the cities higher up the country, as Agra. It is indispensable, he thinks, to the maintenance of our Indian empire, that our Indian capital should continue in some situation where our naval superiority may, if necessary, be brought into play. Oct. 25. Lord Brougham arrived unexpectedly for one night at Walmer Castle, and the Duke asked us to meet him at dinner. We found Lord Brougham very agreeable on a great variety of subjects. Among other things he mentioned having, in one of his journeys to or from Cannes, passed over the exact route which Napoleon took on his return from Elba, sleeping each night in the very places that Napoleon had done. The people used to offer him as a compliment the chcmnbre de l'Umpe7'em\ as they continue to call it ; and Lord Brougham says that he accepted it the more readily, as he knew it must be the best they had. At Sisteron he observed a pass in the road entirely commanded by a battery, where a few resolute soldiers attached to the Bourbon might have with the utmost ease stopped and turned back the invader. At Cannes, the very spot of Napoleon's landing is now marked by a public-house built upon it, with this inscription : Ici a debarque le ff7'and Napoleon ! Vcncz hoirc a sa sante ef, faites rctentir son nom, ! And accordingly, adds Lord Brougham, one hardly ever passes the house without seeing it full of THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 307 soldiers in a highly excited state, singing and chorusing 1844. away with all their force of lungs ! The Duke appeared tired and languid this evening. He is to set out for London to-morrow morning, with the view of attending the opening of the Eoyal Exchange on Monday, and Miss Jane Hope Vere's marriage on Tuesday. He expects to be down here again on Tuesday night. ***** I have thought the Duke, during this visit, in good health and strength; but liis venerable countenance begins to bear very greatly the impression of advancing years. At times, when interested in a person or a sub- ject, his face brightens up, and his clear blue eyes gleam with all their former fire. Vcteris vestigia Jlammse. His deafness has increased, and, though fluctuating on different days, the general result seems to me what I have stated. The Duke did return on Tuesday evening, as he had intended, and we dined with him on Thursday the 31st. In addition to his former visitors, we found Lord Salisbury arrived, and he had also expected Lord Ellen- borough, who had, however, been suddenly summoned to Windsor Castle. We also met at dinner Captain Vincent and Mr. James. ***** The Duke told us that he had that very morning re- ceived a singular proposal from Oxford, for putting an «nd to the system of the young men getting into debt. It is an object, said the Duke, of very great importance, and we have already taken several steps towards attaining it. But now it is suggested that no undergraduate shall ^e admitted to a degree, however great his talents and X 2 3o8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1844- ineritorioiis his examination, until he has signed a de- ^~ claration that to the best of his belief he owes nothing to any one ! The Duke, in his answer of this day, has pointed out that this would be unduly fa^'ouring the rich ; since, as a general rule, the presumption must be that he to whom his father gi^'es a large alloAvance will owe nothing, and that he to whom his father allows very little will fall into debt. He told me that in the announcement of this idea to him, it is stated to be derived from a regulation of Lord Wellesley for the College of Calcutta, where a similar declaration was required before any of the students could be appointed to any public oflice. But in the first place, as the Duke justly argues, there is a wide distinction between failing to promote to oiiice, and refusing a degree ; and secondly, the case of Calcutta was one where the Government itself fixed and allowed an income for the young men, and had therefore a right to demand a declaration that this income had not been exceeded. Lord Charles asked, sotto voce, Avhether Lord Wellesley himself had signed that declaration ? * ■ -*- * ^- ^ The Duke told me that in his way to or from London (I forget which), the other day he had read Macaulay's review of Gladstone's ' Church and State,' which I had lately mentioned to him as very acutely argued. He tliinks that it does not much affect Gladstone personally, but that it strongly exposes the evils of the Oxford school of theology. Next day (Nov. 1) we dined again at Walmer Castle, and found Lord Ellenborough arrived that afternoon. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 309 He seemed in the highest health and spirits, and gave i844. us many and most interesting details on Indian matters. ''^^ Lord EUenborough says that, beyond all question, Akbar Khan murdered Sir William MacjSTaghten with his own hand, by means of a pistol which MacNaghten himself had given him the day before. This seems to me exactly the counterpart of Captain Coolc — who had presented some of the South Sea islanders with a cut- lass, and was afterwards killed with that very weapon. The Duke observed that the opinion he had formed, from reading all the reports of the Cabul expedition, was that if, on the day after Sir A. Burnes's murder, the troops had marched in and occupied the Bala Hissar, removing thither the Commissaries' stores, they would have been perfectly secure ; but that three weeks later, if even an angel had come down from heaven, he could not then have saved them.* vjf- ■ijf' T(f i^ ife On this day, as on the two preceding, we dined at Nov. the Castle. Mr. Pierrepoint had returned to London this morning, but the other visitors were as before, and we met from the neighbourhood Mr. Bridges, Mr. James, the Eecorder of London, Lord Hinton, and Lord William Powlett. Much conversation on India, and many interesting- details from Lord EUenborough. ***** The Duke said that in the last letter which he had ever received from Holkar there was this expression : " My house is the saddle on the horse's back ! " * See 'The Greville Memoirs' (Part II.), ii. p. 138, where the same opinion is exjiressed. 3IO NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1844. Speaking of the Lahore affairs and giving an account of them, Lord Ellenborough observed that a woman was generally to be found at the root of every transaction. " That," said the Duke, laughing, " was the maxim of Charles the Third of Spain. "Whenever an affair was mentioned to him, he was apt to exclaim : B^lsca mi la miuier ! Find me out the woman concerned in it ! " We took leave of the Duke on the 4th, and set out from Walmer on the 5th. 1845. Towards the middle of August 1845, I was appointed joint Secretary of the Board of Control, in the adminis- tration of Sir Eobert Peel. This office gave rise to in- creased communications with the Duke on the current political business of the day, but only one of his letters upon Indian topics need be here inserted. Aug. 28. I sent to the Duke a privately printed memoir on the colonisation of the Himalayas, by Captain Henry Drummond, Bengal Cavalry. " Walmeb Castle, Aug. 29, 1845. " My deae Lord Mahox, " I have perused the memorandum which you have sent me ; and I quite concur with the writer upon the importance of fixing the European troops when employed in tropical climates in the most healthy situations that we can find for them, and that the buildings constructed for them shoidd be substantial and calculated to protect them from the consequence of the variableness of all, even the very best of climates. "I have long acted upon and have given these opinions to others, I believe with great success. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 311 " But I don't concur with your friend upon the ex- 1845. pediency of planting a British colony in the Himalaya mountains, or indeed anywhere else in India. " Our empire in India, an anomaly, a miracle if you please, must be maintained as it was originally esta- blished ; and as it has been maintained, has flourished, and has been brought to its existing state at the end of nearly a century : and we must avoid to adopt the theories of men like Lord William Bentinck, even if such were regularly reasoned upon and formed, and not supposed to exist as declared from detached sentences and flying opinions. " The principle of our occupations of India has been the protection of property in land in the hands of the natives; and with a view to the attainment of this object, the positive prohibition of colonisation by Europeans, and that of the purchase of land by Europeans out of the boundaries of the original settlements. This principle was so strictly carried into execution, as that previous to the last Act of Parliament no European could quit the Presidency in which he was licensed to reside by the East India Company, excepting by license from the Company's government. " The Whig government made this alteration, of which I entirely disapproved. But we have as yet gone no further ; and I hope we shall take example from what is passing in Algeria and in the Prussian provinces in Asia, and adhere to our good old English practice of protecting the natives of the country in the possession of this property. " I confess that I feel no great security in any English colony. I see how precarious our dominion is in North America, in our Australian colonies ; even in the most considerable of our West India colonies. 312 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1845. " I am sensible of tlae anomalous nature of our dominion in the East, of its dangers, and of the chances of its loss. But I tliink that the latter would be vastly increased by colonisation, nay, must be rendered im- minent by colonisation in the particular part of the country upon which your friend has fixed. " I think I could prove this to demonstration by re- verting to some facts in our history in that country. " Ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) "WELLINGTON." 1846. Jan. 7. Arrived at Strathfieldsaye just after luncheon-time, and met the Duke and Arbuthnot in the avenue. Walk and conversation on Corn Laws. No other guests. Lord and Lady Charles in the house, and Gerald coming as usual to dinner. The Duke apparently in very high health and strength ; his appearance aged, but vigorous and fuller in the face than of late years. Jan. 8. Walk with the Duke alone in the afternoon. Corn Laws, &c. Jan. 9. The Charles Wellesleys went away after breakfast to Middleton Park. In the afternoon, another walk alone with the Duke.. Present state of politics. Jan. 10. We returned to London. Eemarkable political con- versation just before our departure and after breakfast. * * * "A mind always looking out for difficulties, not to overcome them but to j'ield to them." * * * * * j(f * Query, Sir E. PeeL THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 313 In the summer of this year, Sii- Eobert Peel's ad- 1846. ministration came to a close. A few weeks afterwards, Lady Mahon and I made an excursion to Scotland, paying a visit on our way at Lowther Castle. Mcmorandvm. — I wrote to the Duke of "Wellington Sept. 12. from Lowther Castle, stating at large the apprehension and annoyance which I felt at "the Duke de Mont- pensier's marriage to the Infanta of Spain, and regi-et- ting that Parliament was not then sitting. I also remembered having heard as a report, both from Lord Brougham and Jlr. "\V. Holmes, that Lord Hertford had just given in his adhesion to the Government, together with his two kinsmen returned to Parliament by his influence — Captain IMeynell and Sir Horace Seymour. To Lord JIaJwn. " Walmee Castle, Sept. 16, 1846. "My deae Lord Mahox, " I have received and I thank you for yom- letter of the 12th from Lowther Castle. " I have seen with much regret what has been passing respecting the Spanish marriages, more par- ticularly as I am apprehensive that the groundwork, indeed the process calculated to lead to this result, was laid and commenced during the administration with which we were more nearly connected than we are with that which now exists. " There is no individual more convinced than I am of the necessity for peace, and indeed good understanding, possibly even entente cordicde, with France, in the existing state of the politics of the world. "But the relation should be no other than patent; 314 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1846. we ought to preserve our ov.tl independent existence, vie^Y3 and national interests ; and, above all, we ought to be in such a state of national defence, as that we could at any time speak out upon a case of national interest or national honour, such as that of the Spanish marriages in Spain, ■«'ithout incurring the risk of mHitary disgrace and eventual loss of national inde- pendent existence. " That is the diilBcult position in wMch we stand and have stood for years. And I am informed that when Mr. Bulwer pointed out to Monsieur Bresson the pro- bability that the accounts of these marriages would not be well received in England, and that he had con- sidered it his duty to remonstrate against their con- clusion, the other replied that they had been the subject of discussion and negotiation between the two govern- ments, and that those reasonable objects which his- Government could not obtaiu by negotiation it must attain by the use of the sabre. " This is the position in which we stand. That is the point to which the entente cordiale with our neglect of our means of defence has brought us ! "I, with all my opinions upon Spain — with my feelings about the independence of Spain — upon France — and particularly upon the renunciation of the Family compact, could not now advise the Government to take any step which might manifest an intention to resist the French pretensions in Spain. I must first see the country in a reasonable state of defence. " These are facts to which I cannot shut my eyes. They are well known to every individual who knows what the defence of a country is. To none better than to Louis Philippe, Ms officers and ministers, and, above all, to his ambitious and inimical sons. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 315 " I heard of Lord Hertford's act, -whicli I sincerely 1846. rei^retted, but it is the natural consequence of the fatal """^ course pursued, and the events of the last session of Parliament. INIuch time will elapse before the Sovereign and Government of this country will cease to feel the baneful consequences of those misfortunes. "Sept. 16, 18i6. " I hope that you and Lady Mahon will enjoy your tour, and that I shall see her, upon her return, in full health. " I have been here about a fortnight ; that is the time which has expired since I came here. But I have been called away frequently, and have had some very fatiguing journeys. But I thank C4od that I am quite well, and as well able to bear fatigue as I was twenty- five years ago. " With best regards to Lady Mahon, " Believe me ever yours most faithfully, (Signed) " Wellington." Duke of Wellington to Lord Malion. "WiLMEB Castle, Oct. 12, ISIG. "My deae Loed Mahon, » * « * * " I am not surprised that your attention should have been given to recent transactions in Spain. I xinder- stand it was expected that the marriages of the Queen and the Infanta would be solemnised on Saturday last, the 10th inst. I have never much admired the coui'se of Louis PhQippe or of this Government upon that subject. I have always thought that his pretension that the Queen should marry a Prince of the House of 3i6 XOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1846. Bourbon, descended from Loiiis XIY., was most extra- vagant. It is true that his ]\Iajesty had a right to choose the ground on which he would approve or dis- approve of the marriage of the Queen of Spaia. But I think that we should, in the first instance, have protested forcibly against that pretension wliich was to come first of the intrigues, in order to fix the choice of the consort for the Queen upon the Count de Trapani, a prince of the Xeapolitan family, disqualified liy education, and has at la?t fixed the choice upon Don Francisco d'Assy — a man known in Spam to be dis- qualified for other reasons. Then the settlement of the question of the marriage, not only without consultation or concert with the Government of this country, but without its knowledge, and the additional marriage of the next princess in succession to the Crown with the Due de !Montpensier, not only without the knowledge of the Go^"ernment of this country, but in breach of a verbal arrangement settled between Lord Aberdeen and ilons. Guizot, in the presence of Queen A'ictoria and King Louis Philippe, at the Chateau d'Eu, are transactions so little creditable to this country and adopted liy France, manifest such absence of deference and respect for its opinion, feelings, and interest in the Government of its neighbour and denominated ally, acting each with the other upon a system of cordial good understanding, that I cannot but apprehend that they will tend to lower the feelings of respect for tliis country, and its power and authority, not alone in the Spanish Peninsula, but throughout Europe and the world. " You have indicated the step to be taken in conse- <]^uence of the course on which these negotiations have been carried on. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 317 " I should be of that opinion, if I was not sensible 1846, that we are not in a state to be able to resist even the '^^ smallest manifestation of angry feeling upon this or any other transaction. " We must first put our country in that reasonable' state of defence in which it was before the French revolutionary war, and in which it ought always tO' have been left, particularly in late years, but in which it would almost appear to have been the object of the Government in modern times not so to place it. " The neglect of these measures has been, in my opinion, the cause not only of these late transactions which have attracted your attention, but of many others. But I, for one, should regret to see any mani- festation of feeling upon these matters, until I should be certain that we could resent the feeling which might be manifest on the other side. " Tliese are melancholy topics. " Ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellikgtox." I wrote to the Duke upon the state of Ireland, and Dec. 30, enclosed him a letter from a gentleman of considerable political importance in that coiintiy. Here is the Duke's reply. " Steathfieldsaye, Jan. 1, 1847. " I\Iy dear Loed Mahon, " I am very miich obliged to you for your letter and enclosure from . " The circumstances in which Ireland is placed are calculated to puzzle even wiser and more experienced men than . The failure of the produce of potatoes in two consecutive years, and the probability that the 3i8 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1847. future culture of this root will be abandoned, or that, at all events, even if the culture should be. persevered in, the produce will not be sufficient for the consump- tion of the people — have rendered it necessary for the Government to consider seriously of tlie anomalous state of social life in Ireland. " The wliole of the labouring- pojnilation, to the amount of some millions of ])eople, living exclusively upon the very lowest description of the produce of the earth; tlie most precarious ; that least capable of l)eing preserved in stores of any kind That root, not commonly purchased in the market as food for the consumers thereof, but raised almost by each individual labouring consumer for liimself, at all events for liis family, upon a certain quantity of land, for the rent of which he engages or mortgages the remainder of his unemployed time for the year, to be employed hi labour for the advantage of him who lets the land. " Supposing the quantity of potatoes not to 1)0 sufficient for the consumption of tlie labourer and his family, from the period at which lie commences to con- sume one crop till that at wldch tlie next is reaped, which is not uncommon, and is rendered, more frequent by the uncertainty of the climate and the various evils to "which that root in particulaj' and its preservation are liable, the labourer and his family must starve for a certain number of days, weeks, months, unless some extraordinary means should be discovered of employing his time if he should have any leisure after fulfilling his engagement to him to whom his labour had been mortgaged, in order to pay the rent of the field in M'hich the potatoes for the food of the labourer and lii.s family for the year had been planted. " This state of things is the cause of the constantly THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 319 lecurring distress of the labouring population of i847. Ireland, of its aggravated state in 1845, and still more ""^ aggravated state in 1846 on account of the increased failure of the potato crop. " There is no doubt that tliis state of social life re- <[uires the earnest and steady attention of Government. "There was possibly no remedy for it of easy attainment excepting the gradual improvement of the state of the people by the growth of time, and their becoming by degrees accustomed to better things than the lowest description of food, clothmg, and lodging, and their self-exertion to improve their own condition. " In the meantime some apprehended famine and fever in 1845, and real famine, fever and death in 1846. " The Government has imposed upon it the task of giving instant relief to the most pressing evil — hunger and its consequences ; to provide the means to defray the expense of the performance of this duty, and next to discover the road to a remedy to the real cause of all the evil — the state of social life in Ireland. This remedy might under any circumstances require the perseverance of a series of years to carry it into execution. " But the circumstances of the times render some early attempt imperative ; while on the other hand such attempt has been rendered more difficult and less likely to be successful by the demoralised state of the labouring classes themselves : their disinclination to work for hire ; their expectation that they should be supported grcttis, giving no work in return ; and their oTOwing disposition to riot and to acquire subsistence by plunder. " On the other hand, it is melancholy to see the accounts of the want of capital in tlie possession of the 320 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1847. proprietors of land in Ireland in general, excepting in "^ that of very few of the largest proprietors. " I am not astonished that does not see his way to a solution of all these difficulties. " I don't know who does. " I beg you to remember (me) kindly to Lady Mahon, and to believe me, my dear Lord Malion, " Ever yours most sincerely, (Signed) " Wellington." STRATHFIELBSAYE.^LONDON. 1847. We arrived at Strathfieldsaye from Chevening, Monday, April 5, 1847, bringing with us our little boy the Duke's godson ; Lord and Lady De Eos, their son and two daughters, and Lord Strangford arrived the same day; Lord and Lady Douro and Mr. Arbuthnot were already in the house. We remained until Saturday the 10th. On Wednes- day and Thursday some of the neighbouring gentry came to dinner, and on the latter day arrived from London Mr. Edwin Landseer. Lord Brougham was expected on the day we left. I used generally to ride in the afternoons with Lady Douro and the Duke. ii:- -%- «■ * 7^ The Duke of Kent, father of our present Queen, was, says the Duke, a very able man as to language both in his common conversation and his after-dinner speeches. All the brothers tried at the latter, but he alone greatly succeeded. " I neAer in my life heard any one speak better on such occasions." In the former he almost j)ersuaded the Duke by his able statements that the mutinies which had twice taken place under him — once THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 321 in Canada and once at Gibraltar — were entirely the 1847. fault of the men and without any error of his own. '"^ Yet in fact the Duke knew the case to be otherwise. The system of His Eoyal Highness in the army was fraught with petty vexations. Thus in order that the officers should be ready on parade with their hair exactly as he fancied, the hairdresser had to attend them at four in the morning. Thus also, to detect intoxication, the non-commissioned officers were ordered at stated times to smell at the men and ascertain whether they smelt of spirits ; and not only this, but at certain other times the officers were ordered to smell at the non-commissioned officers ! " One result, among others, of such a system would be that whenever any officer had a common cold at the nose, and could not smell accurately, he ought by rights to report liimself as unfit for duty ! " t(r *(& ^ T^ TP The Duke only saw Sir Eobert Peel once last year after the Government was broken up ; when he met him on Constitution Hill, the one riding and the other walking, and when the Duke explained to him what he was going to do in the House of Lords respecting Lord Hardinge's Pension Bill. The Duke never saw him again until lately in the new House of Lords, Sir Eobert being there with Prince Albert and others of the Fine Arts Commission at the close of one of their meetings ; and he met him and Lady Peel afterwards at the Queen's Drawing-Eoom. This has been, it seems, the only intercourse between them. I called at Apsley House and saw the Duke. Hot. 17. 322 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1847. He showed me a letter which he had that day- received from a Mr. Simpson, who has lately, as he states, been reading a history (he does not say which) of the Peninsular campaigns, and is concerned at some passages implying a coldness and unfavourable opinion of the Duke towards Sir Thomas Picton. Being, he adds, an admirer of Sir Thomas, he begs leave to ask of the Duke, &c., &c., &c. A very Faid Pry kind of letter, as it seemed to me. The Duke, however, had written an answer (crossways on the letter itself as a draft, and to be afterwards copied and sent by Alg. Greville according to his usual plan), and this answer he read out to us. It states in substance that during a service of more than sixty years he had always the good fortune to be on amicable terms with all the officers with whom he had to act, whether as superior, as subaltern, or as colleague ; and that such was thoroughly the case between himself and Sir Thomas Picton. The Duke remarked to me afterwards that he had in fact been the means in the first instance of bringing Sir Thomas Picton into active service, which he did on the strong recommendation of his merits from General Miranda.* The fault of Sir Thomas Picton was being sometimes " foul-mouthed " — never to the Duke himself, but often, as he was told, to others. It was of little importance, however, and sometimes mere good-humoured jest; Thus when Sir Lowry Cole was announcing to the Duke his intended marriage to the poor lady who is just now deceased, and applying (I think the Duke added) for leave of absence in consequence. Sir Lowry explained his views by saying that he did not think he * Ante,T^. 68. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 323^ -n-as going to do a very imprudent thing, for that the 1848. lady was not very young— and so on ; Sir Thomas, who was present, and between whom and Sir Lowry there had always been a Little rivalry, suddenly broke in with, "Well, when I marry I shall do a d imprudent tlung, for I mean to marry the youngest tit I can find ! " The Duke hastened to add, however, as his observation, that there was no harm in this — nothing wrong either meant or done. ***** Other officers, especially Sir J. Sherbrooke, were quite as rough. Once when Sherbrooke was offended with something from " my friend Sodre," as the Duke called him, he said : " Look you. Sir, my hands are now behind my back, and I advise you to leave the room before they are brought forward, for if they once are, I will break every bone in your skia ! " * ***** The Duke was looking well, and seemed more than commonly gay and cheerful. 1848. On Easter Monday we arrived at Strathfieldsaye, Apr. 24. bringing with us our little Arthur. We found a large party — larger than the Duke has had for a long time past — assembled in honour of the Prince of Prussia. There was the Prince himself with the Prince of Lowensteia and several other men of rank as his attendants, the Austrian ambassador, Lord and Lady Clanwilliam, Lord and Lady Cowley, Lord and Lady Douro, Lord and Lady Charles Wellesley, Lord, Lady and Miss Hardinge, and Lord Strangford. * Ante, p. 190. T 2 324 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1848. In the evening there was great interest in hearing the Duke and Lord Hardinge converse together on Indian matters, &c. I was for some time en tiers with them in the billiard-room. Apr. 25. The Duke took out the Prince and a, large party riding to Bramshill, &c. ; they were out between three and four hoiirs. Lord Hardinge and some others, including myself, preferred belonging to the infantry to-day. Mr. H. Pierrepont arrived this afternoon. Captain, Mrs. and Miss Brown (the last very beautiful) came to dinner. Apr. 26. The Duke has had a letter from Lord Brougham, enclosing a corrected report of his late speech on foreign affairs. Lord Brougham states that he is an early friend of Prince Metternich, having known him very well in their youth at Bremen (I think). Two of the Prussian gentlemen went away and two others arrived. Another riding party of the Duke and Prince of Prussia in the afternoon. We went accompanied by Miss Hardinge to call upon Lady Granville Somerset at Elvetham, a seat of Lord Calthorpe's in this neigh- bourhood, which has been lent to her. Mr. and Mrs. Pigott and Mr. and Mrs. Ponher came to dinner. Apr 27. The party broke up, and we returned to town. I understand that Prince Metternich had been invited, but did not accept ; it was judged undesirable that the Prince of Prussia should be observed to meet him at this particular period. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. 325 Tuesday. — "We arrived at Strathfieldsaye, bringing 1848. our two elder boys with us, and found a numerous *"' " party; Prince and Princess Metternich, with Prince Eichard and Princess Melanie, Baron Hiigel, Count Kielniansegge, Baron and Lady Augusta Neumann, Lord Strangford, Mr. Pierrepont, and Lord Clanwilliam, besides the Duke, Lord and Lady Douro, and Lord and Lady Charles Wellesley. The Duke is looking very well, but Lady Douro thinks that his deafness has latterly a good deal increased. Wednesday. — Lord ClanwiUiam, Count Kielmansegge, and Baron Hiigel left. Thursday. — Lord and Lady Douro set out on their way to Scotland. Mr. Pierrepont went also. Friday. — The rest of the party (except the Duke and the Charles Wellesleys) separated, and we returned to town. On Wednesday there had come to dinner Captain, Mrs. and Miss Brown, and Miss Walmisley, and on Thursday another gentleman of the neighbourhood, who had been playing tennis with Lord Charles in the morning. Gerald Wellesley came as usual every day. Thursday. — I told the Duke that I had lately read Deo. 21, some proofs of the forthcoming book, compiled from the papers of Sir Hudson Lowe * at St. Helena. The Duke said he was confident they would prove to be false, the principal charges flung out against Sir Hudson. I agreed to this, and observed that I supposed the Duke had scarcely known Sir Hudson personally. * Ante, p. 67. 326 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1848. "Yes, I did; I knew him very well. He was a stupid man." I conceive, said I, that he had a bad irritable temper, .and in that point was ill-qualified for his post. "He was not an ill-natured man. But he knew nothing at all of the world, and like all men who know nothing of the world, he was suspicious and jealous. " What I wanted them to do at St. Helena * — and I knew the island — was this. I would have let Bonaparte go about it wherever he pleased, and speak to whoever he pleased, provided only that he showed himself to an English officer every night and every morning — twice in the twenty-four hours. I would also have stationed in each of the six or seven creeks from which alone he could have embarked, a guard-house with a sergeant and twelve men. If any boats were seen approaching without authority, the guard would have fired, and in the same way they would have prevented any boats putting off. By such a plan I was confident from my knowledge of the island — I was there, I tliink, a fortnight — that Napoleon might have been left at liberty to ramble over the island, and could not have escaped from it. "We used to hear every now and then of plans formed in America or elsewhere for effecting his escape." The Duke said also that he thought the Government had been mistaken in removing the old East India Company Governor, Colonel Wilks. He was a very intelligent, well-read man, and knew everything that had been passing in Europe, and Il^apoleon had become really attached to him. After he was gone, ISTapoleon (as the Duke mentions) said more than once, Pourquoi *. Ante, p. 101. THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON. : 327 ■,11 ont-ils pas laisse ce vienx gouverneur? Avec lui j'e mc ,1848 serais arrange, nous n'aurions pas cu de querelles ! Friday mwning. — Before breakfast the Duke was talking to Lord Strangford and to me of the fondness for compliments and ceremony among the Portuguese. " I remember that once when I was carrying on the siege of Badajoz — a double siege — I had my head- quarters at Elvas, and my hands were quite full of ■business — sometimes I was up for half the night. Yet even then the Portuguese governor of Elvas would insist on waiting upon me every morning at the head ,of his staff in full uniform. It was a formal visit of compliment to hope that I had passed the night weU — and always exactly in the same phrase (laughing), pasado rwuito hem la noche ! and sometimes when in that night I could allow myself hardly any sleep at all. Always the same compliment again and again! I used to wish them at the devil — but however! " But pray what is a douhle siege ? " A siege carried on from two opposite quarters at once with separate works, separate trenches, and so forth." During this visit I had a good deal of conversation with Prince Metternich, as I had also several times during the summer in London, but almost exclusively on the. news of the day. I asked him, however, respecting the celebrated interview which he had with Napoleon at Dresden in 1813, on which interview turned the question of peace or war with Austria. He also promised to show me at Brighton a full account of it as drawn up by himself shortly afterwards. All the accounts of it hitherto published are, he adds, whoUy iaaccurate — the least so that of Baron Fain. 328 NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1848. The interview, lie says, lasted for no less tlian nine ■'^ hours — from haK-past eleven in the morning until half- past eight at night ! Is it true, I asked, that Napoleon had at last let fall his hat with some remarkable circumstances ? Non, il ne I'a pas laisse toriiber, mais il I'a jete avec fureur contre le mur. Prince Metternich goes out very little, or not at all, at tMs season; and is very busy with his pen epito- mising the German newspapers, &c. One of these epitomes in three pages, I asked him (on his letting me read it) to lend me for a few days to show Sir. Lock- hart, on which he said kindly : Je vous en fwis cadeau, and I have it still. He is very abstemious in his habits ; takes at breakfast two^cups of tea, but very little of bread and butter — no luncheon — at dinner not much of solid fare, and no wine beyond a very little claret. At dinner he was always seated at the left hand of the Duke. On Thursday, the last day of his visit, he turned to the Duke after the ladies had retired, and addressed him as nearly as can be in the following words : Je vous quitte demain, rjwn clier hon Due, et je ]mis liien vous assurer que les trois jours que fai passes avee vous feront une marque dans ma vie. Cela mJa paru comme trois jours passes dans cet ancien monde, ou j'ai si longtemps vecu, mais que nous ne devons plus voir. J" en ecrivais encore aujourd'hni a ma fille alnee, qui est une excellente 'bonne personne, et je lui disais que ces trois jours a Strathfieldsaye ne sortiront jamais de ma memoir e ! He spoke on this occasion with some solemnity and much feeling, and added a good deal more, but all to the same purpose. I did not hear bi-m on any occasion speak with acrimony or harshness of any of liis political enemies. THE DUKE OF WELLIXGTOX. 329 His wliole family seem very united among them- 1848. selves, and greatly attached to him I observed that "^ the Priacess, ia speaking of him, generally calls him Clement, and his son (a yoimg man not far from twenty- five I suppose) Papa. Prince Mettemich has several correspondents in Austria. Lord Brougham, -who caUs himseK one of his earliest friends, also favours him with frequent letters ^-one came on the Friday morning shortly before we staxted. Princess Mettemich told me that she had lately seen a letter from Paris, in which the writer says that he has become so disgusted with the word fraternite que si javais veritahlcmait un frere je V appdierais mon cousin ! She said that she had once met Sir Eobert Peel at a party in London, but added, not without a tinge of displeasure in her tone, that he had never called, or left his name, upon her husband. A curious account of Princess Lieven at Brighton, who regulates her visitors ahsolument commc on regl: la coupe cles hois .' — that is, appointing each for a separate and stipulated time. Thus she makes the most of the limited number at that place, and endeavours to have chit-chat all the day through. 1850. Early in the afternoon I met the Duke on horseback, Jniy 12. and rode with bi-m some way. I told bim of Sir Eobert Peel's bequest of all his papers to myself, in conjunction with CardweU. The Duke had not heard of it before, and said, "It is right ,3y> NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH 1850. — Yery right. He knew that you would make " no improper use of them — that you would use them only for the use of history." And after a pause, he added, ." I am glad to hear it ; it is the most proper course he could have taken." The Duke told me that as he had heard, the Queen ,liad authorised and desired Lord John Eussell to offer to Lady Peel the title of Yiscountess— as the same ;rank bestowed on the widow of Mr. Canning. He understood that this offer was conveyed through the mediation of Mr. Goulburn. "I do not know," he added, " what her answer will be ; but of this I feel quite sure — that Peel did not fail to let her know what his wishes were as to any distinction that might be shown to his family, and of course she will decide accordingly. I do not know what his wishes might be on that point — I only know that once I recommended to him that he should recommend himself to the Queen for the Garter. He said that he would not then nor at any time consent to such a thing, though he seemed well pleased at my having thought