77 CORNELL UNIVERSITY LIBRARY Cornell University Library E 77.U581I39 1916b Indian appropriation bill. 3 1924 028 748 477 Cornell University Library The original of tiiis book is in tine Cornell University Library. There are no known copyright restrictions in the United States on the use of the text. http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924028748477 le^: INDIAN APPROPMATION BILL HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS UNITED STATES SENATE SIXTY-FOURTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ON H. R. 10385 AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE CURRENT AND CON- TINGENT EXPENSES OF THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, FOR FULFILLING TREATY STIPULATIONS WITH VARI- OUS INDIAN TRIBES, AND FOR OTHER PUR- POSES, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 1917 Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs ^^ PRESENTED TO Hartwick College ONEONTA, N. Y. _ BY __^ ,|>^' K P. KINNEY " WASHINQaX>N GOVERNMENT PEINTING'OI'I'IOE ' 1916 , ^- :C. -s.», ^- s ^ ■»: N \ £ 77 ^9 Uf<9/ /^/.t >fc> o COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS. HENRY F. ASHUEST, Arizona, Chairman. HENRY L. MYERS, Montana. THOMAS J. WALSH, Montana. KEY PITTMAN, Nevada. MOSES E. CLAPP, Minnesota. HARRY LANE, Oregon. ROBERT M. LA EOLLETTE, Wisconsin. ROBERT L. OWEN, Oklahoma. CARROLL S. PAGE, Vermont. JAMES HAMILTON LEWIS, Illinois. ASLE J. GRONNA, North Dakota. PAUL O. HUSTING, Wisconsin. ALBERT B. FALL, New Mexico. EDWIN S. JOHNSON, South Dakota. CHARLES CURTIS, Kansas. M. I. McKelugon, Clerk. X '\ NiJ.^'^ * \ ^ INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. TUESDAY, FEBBTJABY 15, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. G. The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to the call of the chairman. Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Pittman, Lane, Owen, Husting, Johnson, Clapp, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. The Chairman. The following sections appearing on pages 1, 2, and 3, I understand are agreed to without objection: _ Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America m Congress assembled, That the following sums be, and they are hereby, appropriated out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for the purpose of p'aying the current and contingent expenses of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for fulfilling treaty stipulations with various Indian tribes, and in full compensation for all offices and salaries which are provided for herein for the service of the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and seventeen, namely: For the survey, resinvey, classification_, and allotment of lands in severalty under the provisions of the act of February eighth, eighteen hundred and eighty-seven (Twenty-fourth Statutes at Large, page three hundred and eighty-eight), entitled "An act to provide for the allotment of lands in severalty to Indians, " and under any other act or acts providing for the survey or allotment of Indian lands, $100,000, to be repaid proportionally out of any Indian moneys held in trust or otherwise by the United States and available by law for such reimbursable purposes and to remain available until expended: Provided, That no part of said sum shaU be used for the siu-- vey, resurvey, classification, or allotment of any land in severalty on the public domain to any Indian, whether of the Navajo or other tribes, within the State of New Mexico and the State of Arizona, who was not residing upon the public domain prior to June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and fourteen. For the construction, repair, and maintenance of ditches, reservoirs, and dams, pmchase and use of irrigation tools and appliances, water rights, ditches, lands neces- sary for canals, pipe Unes, and reservoirs for Indian reservations and allotments, and for drainage and protection of irrigable lands from damage by floods, or loss of water rights, including expenses of necessary surveys and investigations to determine the feasibility and estimated cost of new projects and power and reservoir sites on Indian reservations in accordance with the provisions of section thirteen of the act of June twenty-fifth, nineteen hundred and ten, |235,000, reimbursable as provided in the act of Au^st first, nineteen hundred and fourteen: Provided, That no part of this appropriation shall be expended on any irrigation system or reclamation project for which specific appropriation is made in this act or for which public funds are or may be available under anjr other act of Congress; for pay of one chief inspector of irriga- tion, who shall be a skilled irrigation engineer, $4,000; one assistant inspector of irri- gation, who shall be a skilled irrigation engineer, $2,500; for traveling and Incidental expenses of two inspectors of irrigation, including sleeping-car fare and a per diem of $3 in Heu of subsistence when actually employed on duty in the field and away from desig- nated headquarters, $3,200; in all, $244,700: Provided also. That not to exceed seven superintendents of irrigation, six, of whom shall be skilled irrigation engineers and one competent to pass upon water rights, and one field-cost accountant, map be employed. 3 4 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. On page 3, they want an increase. Senator Page. On page 3 you say the $244,700 will be satisfactory to you ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. The next you agree to 1 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. There is no disagreement until you reach page 4. Page 4 you want the $400,000 here ? Mr. Meeitt. After the second proviso. Senator Page; page 4. Senator Page. You want the second item increased ? Mr. Meeitt. We want two provisos incorporated in this item. The Chaieman. Page 1; that has been continued for years; page^l is passed. Mr. Meeitt. The House allowed us $100,000; our request was foi' $125,000; but we wiU be satisfied with the amount allowed by the House for survey and allotment work in view of our unexpended balance. The Chairman. That is page 2, line 8 ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. Agreed to at what amount ? Mr. Meeitt. $100,000. You will find full justification for this item beginning on page 3 of the House hearings, and continuing down to and including page 14. Senator Page. Would we not make more headway to go through and indicate where we agree. Here, for instance, is this estimate of $125,000 ; the House bill is $100,000. They agree to it. The Chairman. That is agreed to, without objection. The next page, 3, line 17. Senator Page. It says here the House agreed to $244,700. The Chaieman. That will be agreed to without objection. Senator Page. The next item agreed to is the same. Mr. Meeitt. In this item we should like to have incorporated after the word "fourteen" on line 5, page 3, the words, "and to remain available until expended." This is the general irrigation appropria- tion. The Chairman. You are now referring to line 5 ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. You want it to be a continuing appropriation ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; it is absolutely necessary that this should be a continuing approroiation because it provides for construction work. Senator Page. Why did they not do it in the House ? Mr. Meritt. They limited practically aU appropriations to the current year, but it would very much embarrass us to have this appropriation limited to the current year because of the very nature of the work. Senator Page. Why did you not tell them so ? Mr. Meritt. I did. Senator Page. Why did you not convince them? Senator Clapp. Do you want to know, Senator ? Senator Page. Yes. Senator Clapp. They just concluded they would let the Senate do that, of course. Mr. Meeitt. This appropriation is for the purpose of carrying on the gfeeral irrigation work in the Indian Service and frequently we INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 5 have construction work that runs over the current year, and we should like to have this appropriation continuing in view of the nature of the work we do under this appropriation. The Chairman. The unexpended balance, Senators, reverts to the Treasury on this at the end of the fiscal year; therefore he is asking that it be made a continuing appropriation. Is there any objection to that? Senator Page. We are starting off here and I do not know whether I object or not. I do not want, right off the hook, to say I approve his idea, because he says he could not convince the House that he was right. Now they give ten times as much thought to this matter aa we do. I do not see why you do not start in there and get them right. Mr. Clapp expresses his idea that it may be correct. Mr. Mekitt. I think that this was adopted by the House com- mittee, but I beheve it went out on the floor of the House. The Chaiuman. On a point of order? Senator Page. What do you mean by a point of order ? The Chairman. Under their rules. Mr. Meritt. Objection was made to it on the floor of the House and it went out. Senator Page. This entire biU comes in fresh from the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House. What point of order can be raised against that that you can not raise against the whole biU ? Senator Clapp. They enforce their points of order there differently from what we do. We recognize, especially in Indian legislation, the difficulty of getting the legislative bills. We have got to legislate on the appropriation biU. They know it over there, so they enforce their rxiles strictly and leave us to work the thing out. The Chairman. The House committee reported in accordance with the views of the department to allow it to remain available until expended, but it went out. Senator Page. It was objected to on a point of order? Senator Clapp. Yes. The bOl is to make appropriations for the current year ending June 30, 1917., Anything that is in excess of that is subject to a point of order. Senator Page. Why is it not subject, if obnoxious, to the same objection in the Senate? Senator Clapp. It is. Mr. Meritt. This appropriation has heretofore been made available until expended. Senator Page. I wfll agree, because he says the House committee agreed to it. Senator Johnson. What did the reimbursable act of August, 1914, provide. This seems to originate from that? Mr. Meritt. That legislation was in the Indian appropriation act of that date, in the proviso that wherever Indians had property sufiicient to reimburse the Government for money expended on irrigation projects that that should be done under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior should prescribe. Senator Page. And, Senator, you want to keep in rniad the fact that we have had no appropriation bill since 1914. It failed last year entirely. Senator Johnson. Yes ; I know that. 6 INDIAN APPEOPEUTION BILL. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the amendment ? If not, it is agreed to. STJPPEESSION OF LIQUOR TRAFFIC. The next item is line 21 : . . ,. "For the suppression of the traffic in intoxicatmg hquors among Indians, $150,000." n j i, ^.v, Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed us by tne House. The Chairman. It is agreed to at $150,000. Senator Husting. What is that money used for ? . Mr. Meritt. It is used for the purpose of preventmg traffic m intoxicating hquors. We have officers on the reservations who en- deavor to prevent the sale of liquor to the Indians. Senator Curtis. Travelmg expenses, $46,000 Senator Lane. Has that bill of mine for the suppression ot traffic in intoxicating hquors among the Indians been called up ? It prob- ably will not interfere with this item, but I should hke to have you hear it before you get through. The Chairman. Which bill is that. Senator « Senator Lane. A bill I put in yesterday. Yes; it will interfere with this. The Chairman. You want the item on page 3, for the suppression of the traffic in intoxicating Hquors among the Indians, to go over until a later date ? Senator Lane. Yes; until I get that bill in here. It will probably be printed to-day. The Chairman. It is understood that the item on lines 21 and 22, page 3, goes over, at Senator Lane's request. Senator Page. Yes. DESTITUTE INDIANS. The Chairman. The next item is pages 3 and 4, ending with line 2 on page 4, as follows: For the relief and care of destitute Indians not otherwise provided for, and forthe prevention and treatment of tuberculosis, trachoma, smallpox, and other contagious and infectious diseases, including transportation of patients to and from hospitals and sanatoria, $350,000: Provided, That not to exceed $90,000_of said amount may be expended in the construction and equipment of new hospitals at a unit cost of not exceeding 115,000: Provided further, That this appropriation may be used also for general medical and surgical treatinent of Indians, including the maintenance and operation of general hospitals, where no other funds are applicable or available for that purpose: And provided further, That out ot the appropriation of $350,000 herein authorized, there shall be available for the maintenance of the sanatoria and hospitals hereinafter named, and for incidental and all other expenses for their proper conduct and management, iucluding pay of employees, repairs, equipment, and improve- ments, not to ex;ceed the following amounts: Blackfeet hospital, Montana, $10,000; Carson hospital, Nevada, $10,000; Cheyenne and Arapaho hospital, Oklahoma, $10,000; Choctaw and Chickasaw hospital, Oklahoma^ $20,000; Fort Lapwai sani- torium, Idaho, $40,000; Lagima sanitorium, New Mexico, $17,000; Mescalero hospi- tal. New Mexico, $10,000; Navajo sanatorium. New Mexico, $10,000; Pima hospital, Arizona, $10,000; Phoenix sanatorium, Arizona, $40,000; Spokane hospital, Wash- ington, $10,000; Sac and Fox sanatorium, Iowa, $25,000; Turtle Mounlain hospital, North Dakota, $10,000; Winnebago hospital, Nebraska, $15,000; Crow Creek hospital, South Dakota, $8,000; Hoopa Valley hospital, California, $8,000; Jicarilla hospital, New Mexico, $8,000; Truxton Canyon camp hospital, Arizona, $8,000; Indian Oasis hospital, Arizona, $8,000. IKDIAN APPEOPEIATIOK BILL. ' 7 Mr. Meeitt. This item is for the relief and care of destitute In- dians and the prevention of diseases, beginning at hne 23, page 3. We should like to have our estimate for this appropriation. Our estimate is for $400,000, and the House allowed us only $350,000; and we should like to have a proviso inserted after the word "pur- pose" in line 9, page 4, which reads as follows: PHYSICIANS, ANNUAL LEAVE OF— Provided further, That hereafter physicians, regularly employed in the Indian Service, may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be allowed in addi- tion to annual leave, educational leave not to exceed fifteen days per calendar year, such leave to be cumulative for two years, for postgraduate work. Provided further- That the proviso in the act of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen (Thirty- eighth Statutes at Large, page five hundred and eighty-four) which limits the cost of erec, tion and equipment of hospitals authorized therem to $15,000 each, is hereby amended so as to approve the expenditure of additional sums for the purpose named, not exceeding $2,500 in any one case. Provided, That the total expenditure tor erection and equipment of said hospitals shall not exceed 1100,000, the aggregate amount auliionzed for that purpose by the act in question. Seiiator Page. You raise it $10,000 there? Mr. Meeitt. We are asking an increase of $50,000 in the aggre- gate in our estimates. The Chairman. You want the total amount you may expend on one hospital to be $25,000 instead of $15,000? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; we want the total increased $2,500, so we may expend $17,500. The Chaieman. So that the total cost of one hospital may not ex- ceed $17,500? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. They make that limit $17,500, if we take his amend- ment, instead of $15,000. Senator Curtis. Last year you .had an unexpended balance of $72,300, against which there are obhgations of $42,000, so that leaves you $30,000 and some odd, with $200,000 last year; that would give you this year with this appropriation $380,000 ? Mr. Meeitt. But Congress directed us to construct six additional hospitals, and we have got to care for those hospitals out of this appropriation. Senator Cuetis. Out of that $300,000 ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes sir, and we are constructing the additional hos- pitals now. ■ 1 o Senator Cuetis. Where did they require you to put those hospitals ? Mr. Meeitt. They did not require us to put them in any particular place. We selected the locations ourselves, and there were con- structed hospitals on the Blackfeet, the Pima, the Mescalero Reserva- tions, on a reservation in North Dakota, and a hospital down in Okla- homa, on the Cheyenne and Arapahoe Reservation. Senator Cxjetis. You built new hospitals ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we built six. Senator Cuetis. Six two years ago, and you turned those old use- less buildings into hospitals ? Mr. Meeitt. In several places we have turned buildings which were not needed into hospitals. Senator Lane. You had $71,000 left over? Mr. Meeitt. That is the amount that was left over the 1st of July, but there were outstanding obligations against that amount which would materially reduce it. 8 • INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Johnson. There were some erected in South Dakota Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; three hospitals erected in South Dakota. Senator Johnson. Who directed the sites for those? Mr. Meeitt. The sites were selected on the recommendation of our medical people, together with the recommendations of the superintendents. Senator Johnson. I have not been able to understand why they were erected 30 or 35 mUes from the raihoad when there are two railroads in that reservation, one running clear through the reserva- tion. It makes it in some cases — for mstance, in the Cheyenne Reservation, if an Indian gets sick, it would be necessary for him to pUe into a wagon and take two days to get to a hospital, when if they had put the hospitals at any place along that railroad, at some railroad town, it would have been much more convenient. The same thing happened over in the Rosebud country. The hospital is 30 miles off the railroad. And the same thing is true in the Cheyenne country in my State. If they had, in that Cheyenne country, gone any place in those towns along that railroad there, there would have been some good common sense in putting them there. Mr. Mebitt. I will teU you the reason why those locations were selected. On the Cheyenne River Reservation there was a con- troversy among the Indians as to where the agency should be. located. Part of the Indians wanted the agency moved to another location on the railroad, but the other Indians objected seriously to the moving of the agency. We have our Indian school, with an enroll- ment of over 100 students, at the agency. In view of the protest of the Indians, it was decided it would be unwise to go to the addi- tional expense of constructing a new agency. There were a number of towns that were after this hospital in competition. Senator Johnson. Naturally, along the railroads ? Mr. Meeitt. Along the railroad, but in view of the fact that we have over 100 students at this agency, and in view of the fact that all the business of the reservation is done at the agency — that is the head- quarters there for the business of that reservation — ^we decided it would be better to locate the hospital at the school, so it would be convenient to the Indian pupils. Probably one-third of the Indians of the reservation hve conveniently to that agency. Senator Johnson. I know there are two lines of roads; one runs clear through that reservation from one end to the other. There are many towns that hospital could have been built in where it would really have been convenient to the Indians, and it looks to me like the most ridiculous piece of business in the way of locating a hos- pital I have ever known. The same thing is true at Oldsbxirg. What is the cost of those two hospitals ? Mr. Meeitt. They cost between $25,000 and 135,000, the three there differ in cost. Senator Johnson. Each ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Johnson. Is that out of the Indians' funds ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Johnson. Is it not true that the minimum charge when the Government builds them is 115,000? INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOK BILL. 9 Mr. Meeitt. Out of these gratuity appropriations the maximum charge by law is $15,000. We built a hospital in Oklahoma under an act of Congress for $40,000. Senator Cuetis. Where did you build that? Mr. Meeitt. At Lawton. We are just completing a hospital down in the Choctaw country in Oklahoma which cost $50,000, and we are also constructing hospitals up in the Chippewa country which cost $25,000. Senator Curtis. You actually constructed a Choctaw hospital where ? Mr. Meeitt. Down in the southern part of the Choctaw country. Senator Johnson. You say those locations were made under the directions of the superintendent and the medical board ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Johnson.' Who were on the medical board ? Mr. Meeitt. Dr. Murphy is the supervising medical official. Senator Johnson. Where does he live ? Mr. Meeitt. He is a traveling physician; his headquarters are in the field. There were two superintendents on this reservation within about the time this hospital was located. The first superintendent made a very strong recommendation in favor of the site at the agency for the hospital. Senator Johnson. He was the one who was fired, was he not? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; he was the one that was dismissed. He recommended that these hospitals be located at the agency head- quarters, and after the hospital had been located there and the con- tract had been let and the plans approved, the second superintendent recommended that the hospital be located at one of the towns, but it was too late then, of course, to change the location. Senator Lane. Is the hospital well filled with patients ? Mr. Meeitt. We are gratified at the use made of the hospitals in the Sioux country. Senator Johnson. They die before they get to them. Mr. Meeitt. We are gratified at the use made of these hospitals by the Indians. Senator Lane. What has been your experience; are the hospitals fuU of patients ? Senator Johnson. No; they can not get to them. Mr. Meeitt. We have over 100 students right there at the door of this hospital; in addition to that, one-third of the Indians of the reservation live conveniently near to the hospital. Senator Husting. What do you mean by near the hospital ? Mr. Meeitt. They live in that part of the Indian reservation. Senator Lane. When were they finished ? Senator Johnson. I just thought of that, because we were talking, of hospitals. I have seen a good deal of foolish business done in my life with the management of the Indians, but I have never seen anything quite so foolish as the location of those two hospitals, con- sidering the geography of the country, the railroads, and: the facih- ties to get to them; and I just happened to think about it, because I was somewhat interested. Mr. Meeitt. If we were now selecting a new site for the agency and the school and the hospital, we would naturally select a site on 10 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. the railroad, which would be, more convenient for the /i^d^ians of that reservation; but in view of the fact that we already had tne agency buildings constructed, and in view of the fact that we aJready had the boarding school estabhshed at the old agency, our held rep- resentatives thought it would be better to locate this hospital at the agency rather than locate it at one of the towns. 1 would readily concede, if we were selecting a new site for the agency, the school, and the hospital at this time, it would be preferable to locate it at one of the towns on the raihoad. Senator Lane. I understood from one source they were so isolated there were very few patients ever sent to the hospitals. Senator Johnson. That is true in our case. Mr. Meeitt. Our reports show the Indians are beginning to make use of these hospitals to a gratifying degree. Senator Curtis. Let me ask you a question. I see you have got the Sac and Fox Senator Lane. Let us finish this other matter first. Senator Cuetis. Certainly. Senator Johnson. I was going to tell you of a little matter. One of our prominent citizens called over at one of those hospitals along last summer and talked with the agent, and the agent was not very anxious to let him go through, and he finally asked him how many patients they had. He stumbled around awhile and said they had two. The gentleman said he would go in and see them. "Well," the agent said, "they are off on their vacation now." Senator Lane. That is what I heard. Senator Johnson. That is a positive fact. Senator Lane. Well, it ought not cost much to run that kind of a hospital for upkeep and expenses of patients. Senator Page. Senator Johnson, we have struck here now the fact that it has been the universal rule, pretty much, that the department has asked for a material advance over what the House has allowed them. I am not saying they ask too much or too little, but my idea is that where we have to raise our money by putting a cent stamp onto a raihoad receipt that we ought to keep our expenses down pretty low this year. Senator Pittman. Let me interrupt you. We are going to increase it on incomes. Senator Page. All right; change it so that we can get it in some other way than we have it now, because it is a nuisance. I hate to be bothered when I go to deliver a bag of seeds to send to a neighbor to have to put on a stamp. But we have struck the first one here now. They estimate $400,000; the House cut it down to $350,000. Now, the question comes up with Mr. Meritt, why did you not convince them that you ought to have your $400,000 ? Senator Clapp answers that the House cut it down expecting the Senate will raise it. I do not quite hke that idea. I want to practice a little more economy, and I am rather inchned to give more credence to the House's views than I have been in the past doing, because they give 10 times the con- sideration to it we ever do. Senator Johnson. Yes; I presume that is so. Senator Page. Let us hear what you want in addition to this. INDIAN APPBOPRIAXION BILL. 11 Senator Curtis. Let me say something to you. I was on the House committee four years and on this committee six years, and the Senate committee gives just as careful consideration to the Indian appropri- ation-bill as the House ever did. I beg your pardon, Senator Page, but I know from actual experience. They originate the biU, of course. Senator Page. But as we go through we take these hearings as our guide in discussions of these matters, and when Mr. Meritt asks for an appropriation he says, "You wiU find my argument in the House hearings here, and here are my exhibits," and we go to those and we find, so far as my experience goes, that here is about the only place that we go to get the facts that have been drawn out. I yield to the superior knowledge of Senator Curtis from his broad experience in the House, but my experience is that the House gives it more attention than we do by a good deal. Senator Curtis. They put their hearings down and we do not. You will find we put more time into this bill before we get through it than the House committee does. We will put more time right here on this bill than they do. Senator Page. That is true. The Chairman. Our stenographers' bill last year was $1,500 and the year before $1,800, extra stenographers before this committee. Senator Page. You know what that was. It was dead waste, three fourths of it. The Chairman. That is the very point. Senator Page. I have sat here and heard people talk; I have been in this committee room and sat here and heard them talk to go into this report when I was the only member in the room. The Chairman. That is true, Senator. And I do not think you ought to remain Senator Page. I do not think we get a very good impression of that, because most of what is taken down is never read. Senator Pittman. I should like to help the Senator remedy that upon this hearing. Senator Page. Will you be here? Senator Pittman. I will not be here on that kind of debate, but I wiU be here if you will attend to business and not talk. The Chairman. What shall we do with this item of $400,000 or $350,000? Is there a motion ? Senator Lane. I think Senator Curtis has somethmg to say. Senator Curtis. I want to know why the Sac and Fox, where they have only 343 Indians, spend $25,000 a year ? Is sickness greater m Iowa to justify that expenditure? , i i ^ j Mr. Meritt. That was formerly a boardmg school and we turned that into a sanitarium, and we transport children from other reserva- tions who have incipient tuberculosis. Senator Page. That is the Sac and Fox? , ^ • Mr. Meritt. The Sac and Fox, Iowa, one of the very best sani- tariums. It is doing splendid work. ., ox ^ 7 Senator Curtis. You send Indian children there from other btates « Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. , . , , , •, j The Chairman. Would you be kind enough to read your amend- ment again, Mr. Meritt ? 12 INDrAN APPEOPBIAXION BILL. ANNUAL LEAVE FOR PHYSICIANS. Mr. Meritt. We wish to have incorporated, after the word "pro- posed," in Une 9, page 4, the following: Provided further, That hereafter physicians, regularly employed in the Indian Service, may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be allowed, in addition to annual leave, educational leave, not to exceed fifteen days per calendar year, such leave to be cumulative for two years, for postgraduate work: Provided further, That the proviso in the act of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen (thirty-eighth' Statutes at Large, five hundred and eighty-four), which limits the cost of erection and equipment of hospitals authorized therein to $15,000 each, is hereby amended so as to approve the expenditure of additional sums for the purpose named, not exceeding $2,500 in any one case: Provided, That the total expenditures for erection and equip- ment of said hospitals shall not exceed 1100,000, the aggregate amount authorized for < that purpose by the act in question. We have about 200 physicians in our Indian Service. These physicians are located on the reservations frequently in isolated places and it is important that they go to medical schools occsaionally to receive short courses in their profession so as to keep abreast of the times. The Chairman. On line 3, would that not change the $90,000 to $100,000? Mr. Meritt. It would stiH remain $90,000. We are not asking that the present appropriation be changed. The Chairman. You are wOhng it should remain at $90,000 ? Mr. Meritt. We are willing that the amount should remain $90,000, and this year's appropriation biU the amount to be limited to $15,000, but for the six hospitals you have already authorized to be constructed we should like to have the appropriation increased so we can use $17,500. The Chairman. You find you can not complete them at $15,000? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Why do you not come in with a deficiency appro- priation, where that properly belongs ? Mr. Meritt. In view of the fact that this appropriation originates m the Indian bill we thought it would be better to include it m. our estimates for the Indian bill. Senator Curtis. Have you asked any deficiency for any other purpose for your school ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Curtis. It is quite a httle item. Has this been submitted to the Department of the Interior ? Mr. Meritt. Those items were submitted to the Secretary of the Interior We have not asked a single item m the deficiency. Unless we get this appropriation we shall be somewhat embarrassed hosTtals ? ™"^' ^"""^ ^^^^ ^^®^^y ^«* your contracts for those Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. And you are short that much? Mr. Meritt. In one or two cases we have gone over the amount limited by Congress. We advertised for the construction of these SIX hospitals and we received several bids. One builder bid on the entoe six hospitals, and on the six brought Ms Saount down to $14,466 approximately. The other bidders bid inZiduaUv and those bids ran up as high as $20,000 per hospital. We savS' con- INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 13 siderable money by accepting the bid of the one contractor for the $14,466 for each hospital, but that does not furnish us sufficient inoney to equip those hospitals, and also the comptroller has recently rendered a decision by which he requires us to pay out of this $15,000 the supervisory cost, the cost of supervision of the construction of these hospitals, which we had heretofore paid out of the general lump-sum appropriation for our building purposes in the Indian Service. That decision of the comptroller, after we had gone ahead and practically completed these hospitals, has caused us some embar- rassment and it is important that we get this item of legislation so as to meet the conditions brought about by this decision; also to furnish us some additional money for equipping these hospitals. (The decision referred to is here printed in fuU as follows:) (Copy.) Appeals Nos. 25115-16 and 17. Tkeastjky Department, Washington, December t, 1915. With letter dated October 26, 1915, the Secretary of the Interior transmitted with request for favorable action a letter from the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs, dated October 22, 1915, requesting revdsion of three settlements of the Auditor for the Interior Department so as to charge the amounts thereof to "Indian school and agency building, 1916, instead of ''^Relieving distress and prevention, etc., of dis- eases among Indians, 1916." The settlements submitted for revision are: Settlement No. 46124, dated October 5, 1915, claim of Ray A. Small for services as superintendent of construction of hospital at Mescalero, N. Mex., to be constructed by Walter D. Lovell under his contract dated March 23, 1915. Settlement No. 46143, dated October 7, 1915, claim of same party for similar services. Settlement No. 46144, dated October 7, 1915, claim of Ralph Stewart as superin- tendent of construction of hospital at Turtle Mountain Agency, Mont., by same contractor, under above-named contract. The provision under which the construction of these hospitals was authorized ap- pears in the act of August 1, 1914 (38 Stat., 582, 583-4) as follows: "To relieve distress among Indians and. to provide for their care and for the pre- vention and treatment of tuberculosis, trachoma, smallpox, and other contagious and infectious diseases, including the purchase of vaccine and expense of vaccina- tion, correction of sanitary defects in Indian homes, |300,000 * * *; Provided, further. That not to exceed $100,000 of the amount herein appropriated may be ex- pended in the erection and equipment of hospitals for the use of Indians; and no hospital shall be constructed at a cost to exceed |15,000, including equipment * * * » The service considered in settlement No. 46124 was rendered July 5 to 81, 1915, and the appropriation charged by the auditor in settlement was "Relieving distress and prevention, etc., of diseases among Indians, 1915, " under the provision afcove quoted, while the appropriation designated in the administrative office on submission of the claim was "Indian school and agency buildings, 1916," appearing in the same act (38 Stat., 584) as follows: "For construction, lease, purchase, repairs, and improvements of schools and agency buildings, and sites, and for sewerage, water supply, and lighting plants, $440,000 * * * " The latter provision became available for the fiscal year 1916, by virtue of the joint resolution of March 4, 1915 (38 Stat., 1228). In the second paragraph of the Assistant Commissioner's letter of October 22, 1915, he says: "Mr. Ray A. Small was employed as superintendent of construction on frame sanatoriimi No. 41, of the six sanatoria now being constructed under the provisions of law reading as follows, " which words are followed by quotation of the proviso, in the act of August 1, 1914, supra. In the first paragraph of said letter it is shown that Mr. Small's services were rendered from July 5 to 31, 1915, as superintendent qf construction at Mescalero, N. Mex. 14 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. There is no indication that his services were engaged for, or applied to, any ot er ■^'Sch service was necessary to the proper construction of the l^oapitaj, the expendi- ture therefor, from whatever appropriation paid, constitutes Pa^* °* t^^.^°5 :°' HI hospital, the maximum limit of which cost, including equipment, was hxea m tne "TnX1^SoSa«ofo%300,000, of which $100,000 is -de available for the erec tion and equipment of hospitals, supra, the broad and general P^^^PO^.^^^^^he act^^^ the benefit of Indians indicates that the hospitals provided for are not necessanly or within the contemplation of the law school or agency buildings and that the cost ot their construction is not properly chargeable in any part to the appropnatipn Indian school and agency buildings, 1916, " but that the appropriation '.'Eelieving distress and prevention, etc, of diseases among Indians, 1915," under which the contract for erection was made, is alone available for such purpose. The rule of construction, that an appropriation made for the accomplisnment ot a particular project is alone available for such purposes, applies with especial force m a case where the maximum limit of cost of the project fixed by law would be exceeded by expenditure in part from some other appropriation. The proposition of the administrative office to pay $150 per month for about five months for superintendence amounting to about 1750, would increase the contract price $14,666,661, for erection of building to $15,416.66J, exceeding the maximum limit. . , The action of the auditor in settlement No. 46124 charging the amount therem allowed, if allowable, to the appropriation, "Relieving distress and prevention, etc., of diseases among Indians, 1915," is approved, and certificate of no difference will issue. In the closing paragraph of the assistant commissioner's letter he says that the two additional claims, one in favor of Ray A. Small and the other in favor of Ralph Stewart, were similarly treated by the auditor, as evidenced by his settlement Nos. 46143 and 46144. The circumstances in these cases are exactly similar to those sur- rounding the case of Ray A. Small hereinbefore referred to. " In the auditor's certificates in the latter two settlements, the charge of $150 each is made against the appropriation, "Relieving distress and prevention, etc., of diseases among Indians, 1916,' instead of the same appropriation, 1915, under which the contract of March 23, 1915, for construction was entered into. By numerous decisions of this office, it has been held that an annual appropriation for a fiscal year is available for the completion of structures or delivery of supplies duly contracted for within the fiscal year for which the appropriation was made, although the actual completion of structures of delivery of goods extend beyond the close of such fiscal year. (9 MS. Dec, 1008; 7 Oomp. Dec, 791; 8 Id., 346; 10 Id., 721 et al.) I therefore think that the credits allowed in settlements Nos. 46143 and 46144 should have been charged to appropriation, "Relieving distress and prevention, etc., of diseases among Indians, 1915," instead of under the same title for 1916. A letter from the auditor dated November 30, 1915, shows that the same view is now adopted by him. Upon revision certificates of differences to effect transfer are issued accordingly. M. Waewick, Comptroller. Senator Lane. Have you expended the money? Is it the max- imum so you can pay it out of appropriation already available ? Senator Lane. I do not understand that you are asking for an increase; you cover it out of the old money? Mr. Mekitt. We pay it out of the appropriation of last year. Senator Curtis. They have $72,000 left unexpended. Senator Lane. I thought so. Mr. Mekitt. The law lunited us to $15,000, and we should like to have that increased to $17,500, and if we can get that raised we already have the money available and are not asking for an appro- priation. Senator Curtis. For that purpose ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. What is your motion. Senator Curtis ? Senator Curtis. I move we insert the item. UNUIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. i{) Senator Pittman. I second the motion. The Chairman. The question is on increasing the authorization for hospitals to $17,500, instead of $15,000? Senator Page. You mean changing line 5 on page 4 ? Senator Cuetis. Eead it, Mr. Meritt. Senator Page. Was the motion of the Senator from Nebraska that we adopt your amendment ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. I move to adopt the aniendment in regard to the hospitals for which they already have the money. That is, to allow them to expend more than $15,000 in the construction of those four or five hospitals for which they say they have the money to pay for, but are not authorized to expend under existing law. Senator Pittman. That would require the drafting of a new amendment ? Senator Curtis. He has it there already drafted. Will you read the amendment? Mr. Meritt (reading) : Provided further, That hereafter physicians regularly employed in the Indian Serv- ice may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be allowed, in addition to annual leave, educational leave, not to exceed fifteen days per calendar year, such leave to be cumulative for two years, for postgraduate work: Provided further, That the proviso in the act of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen (Thirty-eighth Statutes at Large, five hundred and eighty-four), which limits the cost of erection and equipment of hospitals authorized therein to $15,000 each, is hereby amended, so as to approve the expenditure of additional sums for the purpose named, not exceed- ing $2,500 in any one case: Provided, That the total expenditures for erection and equipment of said hospitals shall not exceed $100,000, the aggregate amount author- ized for that purpose by the act in question. Senator Curtis. That is the amendment. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that amendment? That is agreed to. Now, the next amendment the commissioner proposes Mr. Meritt (reading) : Provided further, That hereafter physicians regularly employed in the Indian ^Serv- ice may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be allowed, in addition to annual leave, educational leave, not to exceed fifteen days per calendar year, such leave to be cumulative for two years, for postgraduate work. The Chairman. What is the present annual leave — one month out of the year ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. That would give them a month and a half every year? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. It would give them a month and a half, but as I understand it they do not take the 15 days every year, they take it every two years; that will give them 30 days to attend school some place. Is it not a fact that these men have been in the employ of the Government for a long time ? Mr. Meritt. Some nave been for 10 or 15 years. Senator Curtis. They are regular graduates, are they not ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; they have also passed a civil service exami- nation. ■ . - Senator Curtis. Is this really to give them time to take a post- graduate course, or to give them an extra leave ? 16 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; this will not be used for leave purposes, but for educational purposes only. " i i. n Senator Cuktis. Is that where you have a school of the Cjovern- ment for them to attend, or is that to go to some college that they select and you approve ? Mr. Meeitt. This wOl simply grant them the time that they use m going to a university at their own expense. Senator Cuetis. Are thpy required to do that, or can they use that 30 days as they please running around ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we will require them to make the best possible use, if granted, to improve them, to bring them up to date in their profession. Senator Page. In what way do you safeguard that feature, Mr. Meritt « Mr. Meritt. We will not grant them leave until they go to an institution to take a postgraduate course. Senator Page. They can not go until after you have granted them leave ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Page. I asked you how you safeguarded it. You grant them leave to go to certain schools. Do you trace out the action of those physicians to know that they go to those schools ? Mr. Meritt. Oh, yes; we will keep in touch with them. Senator Lane. You see if they have been to a postgraduate course in any school they possess a ticket of admission which shows, or a certificate from that school showing that they attended it. If they have not that ticket or certificate then the supposition is that they did not go there. Senator Johnson. Is it not a fact that a good many of these physicians employed by the Government at the Indian schools go out among the whites and practice on their own responsibility ? Mr. Meritt. In isolated neighborhoods where there are no other physicians and where there are white people living on the reservation we permit them, where it does not interfere with their practice among the Indians, to visit sick white people. Senator Johnson. How do you determine whether it interferes with their practice or not ? Mr. Meritt. AU the physicians are under the direction of a super- < intendent of the reservation, and he is assumed to know the condition^ on that reservation, and he is the man that we rely on to determine those conditions. Of course, the physicians are men of character and education and standing, and we frequently rely on their state- ments. Senator Johnson. What salary does the Government pay the average Indian ph ysician ? Mr. Meritt. We pay anywhere from $1,000 to $1,600, depending, on the work they perform and the location. In addition to that,, they get their house rent, fuel, and light free. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the amendment? If not, it is agreed to. Eeferring to page 5, commencing at line 6 Mr. Meeitt. May we get the $400,000 instead of the $350 000 ? I shoidd like to state to the committee that it is very important indeed INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 17 that we get the full amount that has been requested by the depart- ment. Idid not hesitate to accept the reduction on these other two items The Chairman. Personally, I feel if there is one thing paramount it is the Indians' health. That is above everything else. Personally, I favor the increase, and we can retrench some other place in the bill. Senator Lane. You say for the care of destitute Indians not other- wise provided for. I notice after looking over some of your state- ments to the House committee that there is very little of this money expended for the relief and care of destitute Indians. It is in the third hearing, I think. Mr. Meritt. This appropriation is used to maintain hospitals that have already been authorized by Congress and for the paying of the expenses of physicians, and very little of it is used for actual feeding of Indians. Senator Lane. That is right. Mr. Meritt. That is not the pxxrpose of this appropriation. Senator Lane. I know, but it states that it is for that purpose, for the relief and care of destitute Indians, and there is very little mon6y expended that way I guess. Judging from those items I checked out it was really very very httle. Mr. Mekitt. We had other appropriations throughout the bill for that purpose, and this was for the health work and for hospital work and for medical aid to Indians. And I might supplement the state- ment of Senator Ashurst, that one of the greatest needs in Indian Service is to improve the health conditions of the Indians. It is shown that three times as many Indians die from tuberculosis as white people of the same population, and it is also shown that proba- bly between 50,000 and 60,000 Indians in the NUnited States are afflicted with trachoma to a more or less degree, and Congress has not heretofore provided as hberal appropriations as was absolutely nec- essary to meet this condition. I can remember five years ago when the appropriations were down to less than $100,000 for this work. We have gradually increased this appropriation and gotten Congress to make appropriations for hospitals and we are meeting the condi- tions better now than heretofore, but even with this appropriation we shall not be able to meet the general health and sanitary condi- tions that should be met immediately. Senator Lane. The suggestion I wish to make to the committee on this item is this, and it is pertinent and worthy of your consideration. The Indians, if properly housed and if they were hving under hygienic conditions and properly fed and employed, we would not have to spend a lot of money for hospitals, for in that event they would not become subjects who would have to go to hospitals. Now we are locking the stable after the horse has been stolen, and this money should be expended the other way. Senator Ashurst. On what. Senator ? Senator Lane. By going about it and putting those Indians in a condition physically better and surrounding them with such condi- tions that they would not become afllicted with tuberculosis as they are now Their condition is sad. That is the trouble. We ought not to have $400,000; the bureau needs $4,000,000 for this item. They will have to build hospitals on all of their reservations. What 31362—16 2 18 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. they should do is to get enough money to go out and clean up the reservations and then they will not need so many hospitals. A lew tents and sleeping porches, and fairly comfortable houses ot two or three rooms and you will not need one-half of these hospitals. You are not doing this. You are spending this money to remedy a con- dition which your department has created and which makes them subjects for hospitals, and you are going to lose the life of every Indian you have got under you. You have got as high as 60 to 70 per cent of the Indians on some reservations tubercular, according to the reports of your physicians, and you have got reports stating that you will never get rid of it until you go out and clean up first. I have been in the Blackfoot Reservation in the State of Montana. I am not saying this to reflect on this administration, for it has gone on continually until it has grown into this condition, but those are the facts. Mr. Meritt. As I stated before, up to five years ago the appro- priations were not available for this work. We are appealing now to Congress for these appropriations. I concede we could use during the next two years 15,000,000 for medical and hospital service to .Indians to advantage. I realize that it would be absolutely imprac- ticable to come to Congress asking for $5,000,000 for this work. We are asking for 1400,000, and we would like very much to get this full $400,000, otherwise we shall not be able to carry on the work in these hospitals that Congress has heretofore authorized to be con- structed. Senator Lane. Mind my point. I have no objection to this, but where you need money and ought to be expending it is in placing conditions on those reservations in such shape that these Indians will not be acquiring tuberculosis and going to hospitals. Mr. Mekitt. We realize that. Senator, and we are trying to meet that condition as fast as we can. During the last two years we have brought to this committee a reimbursable plan and the last two Congresses have been rather liberal in making appropriations so we could advance to the Indians funds through which they could become self-supporting on their allotments; we have also used part of those funds for improving housing conditions. But it is impossible for us with the smaU appropriation available to go out and build homes for aU the Indians. The sanitary conditions of the Indian homes on a great many reservations are deplorable; we know that. There are probably 30,000 Indians living in one-room shacks and tepees and on dirt floors. We are improving those conditions just as rapidly as we possibly can with the money available. The Chairman. Senator Pittman, have you some remarks to make ? Senator Pittman. This has been covered. The Chairman. Senator Curtis, were you going. to suggest some- thing? Senator Curtis. Just along the lines of Senator Lane's suggestion. This movement started some five years ago, as I recollect it. Oppo- sition was made to last year's item because nearly all the money had been paid for expenses of taking photographs and things of that kind. I notice in this item on page 42 that out of all this moncsy appropriated or expended, $220,000, only $44,000 of it really goes IKDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 19 for subsistence, dry goods, forage, fuel, medical supplies, equipment and material — only $44,000 out of the whole amount, and there of course is trouble in getting these appropriations because so much of the money does go for salaries and traveling expenses and transporta- tion of supplies and in the maintenance of the hospitals, rather than in the care of the Indians or medical supplies and food and clothing for the patients. Mr. Meeitt. As I stated before this appropriation is not for that purpose. Senator. We have other appropriations for the purchase of supplies, and this appropriation primarily is for the purpose of tak- ing care of the hospitals, paying the salaries of traveling physicians and local physicians and the furnishing of medical supplies to Indians. The purpose of this appropriation is not to buy clothing and food for Indians. Other appropriations throughout the bill are for this purpose. Senator Curtis. Although you do spend $7,000 of it for dry goods and clothing? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we occasionally spend some of this money for this purpose when no other appropriations are available. Senator Geonna. I notice the expenses for salaries, traveling ex» penses, and so forth, amount to more than $76,000 out of this appro- priation. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Geonna. That seems to me to be exceptionally large. I am not going to oppose this appropriation. I believe we ought to increase it to $400,000 because it is evident that is the calculation you made, you made that estimate and for one I am not going to reduce the amount of the estimate that you make and in that way embarrass the department. There is, however, a great deal to what Senator Lane has said. The place to begin to improve the conditions of the Indians is right at their home. I know that, I have lived close by Indian reservations, and I know 'a little something about Indians but that, of course, is such a big question that we can not and should not discuss it here. That is, I do not feel that I ought to discuss it here. I think the building of these small hospitals on these different Indian reservations is the right system, rather than to build the very expensive hospitals and take the Indians away from their homes to distant States or places. It is better to have these small hospitals, and I am very much in favor of this plan, and I do not think we ought to waste much time about an item of $50,000 if the department says they need it. I for one am ready to vote for it. ,. • » The Chaieman. Is there any objection to the item at the estimate? The item was agreed to. Senator Page. I observe the House raised it $50,000. The Chaieman. Over the estimate ? . . , i x Senator Page. The House raised it irom the appropriation ol last year by $50,000. . . ^ „ „„„ Senator Geonna. By the estimate it is $400,000. The Chaieman. It is agreed to at the estimate. Senator Page. I am going to say right here that I am not gomg to vote for it, although I will not vote agamst it, but I want to see when we get through how much the department has asked for more than the House gives them. 20 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. The Chairman. We wiU have a carefully tabulated statement Mr. Meeitt. Senator Page, you will please bear m mmd that we have constructed six additional hospitals. DAY AND INDXTSTRIAL SCHOOLS. The Chairman. Line 6, page 5, House bill, $1,550,000, estimated and last year's bill the same amount: "For support of Indian day and industrial schools not otherwise provided for, for other educa- tional and industrial purposes in connection therewith, $1,550,000. Provided, That not to exceed $40~,000 of this amount naay be used for the support and education of deaf and dumb and blind Indian children; Provided further, That not more than $100,000 of the amount herein appropriated may be expended for the tuition of Indian children enrolled in the public schools: Provided further, That no part of this appropriation, or any other appropriation provided for herein, except appropriations made pursuant to treaties, shall be used to educate children of less than one-fourth Indian blood whose parents are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they live and where there are adequate free school facilities pro- vided and the facilities of the Indian schools are needed for pupils of more than one fourth Indian blood: And pro^nded further. That no part of this appropriation shall be used for the support of Indian day and industrial schools where specific appropriation is made. Senator Gronna. In connection with this does that include the amount that we have allowed for secular schools, does that come in here? The Chairman. No, sir; none whatever. But I want to say to the committee there is a situation in Utah — I remember Senator Suther- land's amendment — we have to make appropriation for some $1,800 to cover tuition not. Senator Page. I do not think we ought to reduce that appropria- tion. I think we need it all. Senator Lane. What are these schools not otherwise provided for? Mr. Meritt. All the day schools and the reservation boarding schools are supported out of this appropriation of $1,550,000. Senator Lane. Wh);- do you not attach that to the reservation item and carry it all together ? Mr. Meritt. Because we support approximately 225 day schools and about 75 reservation boarding schools out of this appropriation. Senator Lane. On what page in the hearings is that? Mr. Meritt. This item is justified on page 46 of the House hearings, and extends to page 49. Senator Curtis. I want to ask you about the limitation of $100,000 to be expended in tuition of children in public schools. Ought that limitation be put there ? Mr. Meritt. In our estimates we did not have any limitation on that appropriation. According to our estimates we had after the word "therewith" in line 8, "and for tuition of Indian children in public schools." That would allow us to use as much as we deemed practicable out of the lump-sum appropriation for tuition in public schools. Senator Curtis. It is cheaper in some cases to send your children to public schools and pay the tuition? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and we are doing that in aU cases where the public schools are available and we are gradually working the Indian children into the public schools. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION PILI-. 21 Senatoi" Curtis. How much did you pay out last year for this proposition? Mr. Meritt. The appropriation, I think, was hniited to about $25,000. Senator Curtis. Will this $100,000 be enough, do you think, this year ? Mr. Meritt. We would prefer to have it without limitation, but if the committee deems proper to put a hmit of $100,000, we will get along with that amount. Senator Curtis. In the debate in the House on one of these items it was stated that it was costing you .$200 and odd for each Indian child to educate them in a certain California school. If we wipe out that limitation could you put those children in day schools there or in public schools, or create day schools for them? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; those children have no public-school facilities. Senator Curtis. I want to discuss that item with you a little later on about what to do with it. Senator Pittman. I am informed that on the Blackfeet Reserva- tion 90 per cent of the children are attending the pubHc schools at $27 per capita, as against a cost of $167 in the regular reservation school. Senator Lane. Ninety per cent. Mr. Sloan. In the day schools, Indian children of all ages consti- tute 90 per cent of the attendance, and they want the school there enlarged. Mr. Hamilton is here, and would like to present that if you are ready to hear it. Senator Pittman. I judge that is a statement of fact, and will not be contradicted. Senator Gronna. I do not know why we should limit that to $100,000 if the department finds that it is ecomony, and not only economy, but also for the best interests of the Indians to send them to the public schools; I do not know that we ought to limit that to $100,000. Mr. Meritt. We are very much in favor of sending Indian children to public schools wherever such schools are available. Senator Curtis. Read your amendment, if you have one. Mr. Meritt. We should like to have incorporated after the word "therewith" on line 8 "and for tuition of Indian children in public schools." Then strike out in line 11, beginning with "provided, further," down to "schools" in line 13. The Chairman. Do you think that would prove efficacious for your purposes ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. . . The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? If not, it is agreed to. , ,. . . Senator Pitman. This means it strikes out the limitation. The Chairman. That is the effect of it. Senator Pittman. In other words, you can not limit it if you are intending to increase the attendance at public schools. Senator Gronna. No. The Chairman. Is there any disagreement as to the amount agreed to ? I call your attention to lines 22, 23, and 24. That is all right, I presume? 22 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Johnson. Does not the department consider that it is not only a matter of economy, but a matter of advantage for the Indian children to attend public schools? IVIt D^T^TtlXT JL GS SIT Senator Johnson. Then why would it not be a good plan to raise that amount that may be expended for that ? . .^ , , , Senator Page. We have crossed out the limit. We have dropped the limit entirely. Senator Pittman. I understand Mr. Robert Hamilton, delegate from the Blaclcfeet Agency, has written a statement with regard to this very subject of Indian children being educated in public schools, and I ask consent that it be published in the record at this place. The Chaieman. Is there any objection? If not, Mr. Hamilton, you will leave your statement of facts to be inserted in this record. (The statement referred to is here printed in fuU as follows:) The Public Schools, District No. 9, Browning, Mont., January 18, 1916. To the Members of the Business Council, Blachfeet Agency, Browning, Mont. Gentlemen: We hereby respectfully request that your body incorporate the fol- lowing requisition for School District No. 9, Teton County, Mont., in the instruc- tions which have been issued to the delegation which was elected December 27, 1915, to represent and act for the Blackfeet Tribe of Indians in all matters of legislation pertaining to the interest of the tribe. It has always been the policy of the Browning Public School to encourage the attendance of Indian children, and although for a number of years they have com- prised a large majority of the enrollment, the district did not make a requeat for financial assistance from the Government. But now conditions are such that we must receive Government aid in order to accommodate so large an attendnace of Indian children. Orignially the school consisted of o ily one room but the attendance is so rapidly increasing that the trustees were obliged to provide five rooms in order to accommo- date all pupiur One of the five rooms above mentioned is a garage which Ihe trustees rented temporarily and fitted up for use as a school room. The five rooms that we now have are inadequate for the number of children who wish to attend school hers and many have been turned. away. Browning is centrally located and people have moved in from all directions to send their children to school. A great many children are being sent away from the reservation to neighboring towns to attend school at a great expense to their parents. If we had sufficient accomo- dations here these children would be kept at home. In order to accommodate all children who wish to attend school here we should have one more building consisting of four rooms. With such accommodations we could educate 250 Indian children and present conditions indicate that there would be at least that number in attendance. At present we have an enrollment of 170, of which number 155 are Indiati children. The assessed valuation of taxable property in school district No. 9 is over $400,000. The school trustees levied a tax of 10 mills for the support of the school. This is the highest tax that can lawfully be levied. This tax amounts to $4,000 annually. In addition to the tkx mentioned above the school receives its proportion from the sale of State lands. This amounts to several hundred dollars annually. At present the Government is paying tuition for 110 Indian children at the rate of 15 cents per pupil per day. The maximum amount we can receive from this source under the present contract will be $2,970. Thus it IS shown that fully nine-tenths of the enrollment are Indian children and the Government is paying approximately one-third of the running expenses of the school. The 155 Indian children that we have in school are given all the advantages of a first-class public school. We are complying with the school laws of Montana by allowing 200 cubic feet of air space for each pupil. All buildings are painted outside and inside, equipped with storm windows and vestibules, and kept in first-class condition. In every instance the source of light is from the left and rear. All windows are well supplied with good shades. Desks are of latest model and adjusted to needs of pupils. Every room is well supplied with INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 23 good blackboards, crayon, and erasers. We have an ample equipment for primary The school is equipped with a good library to which all pupils have free access under the supervision of the teachers. Walls of classrooms are equipped with suit- able framed pictures. The school is supplied with good dictionaries, maps, globes, charts, wei|;htB, measures, and other appliances. Each room is equipped with a sanitary drinking fountain. A very proficient janitor has charge of the building and keeps It m a clean and sanitary condition. o-oS"^^ ''°°™ ^? furnistied with a United States flag. The school is supplied with a $350 piano, a, victrola, and a graphophone. Free textbooks are furnished to all pupils The school is provided with four sanitary outhouses. The playground consists of 1 acre of ground well fenced . Both girls' and boys' basket-ball teams are supervised by teachers. A suitable building is provided for shelter of coal and kindling. The advanced grades have literary societies and other social organizations. Each teacher keeps a neat and accurate school register. All teachers have first or higher grade certificates. The running expenses of our school amount to approximately 1650 per month. ■J c Therefore we have the honor to submit the following requisitions for the public school in Browning wherein 90 per cent of the enrollment consists of Indian children. We ask the Government to furnish us with another school building consisting of four rooms, completed in suflScient time for the trustees to furnish and equip it bv Sen- tember 1, 1916. Weralso ask the Government to increase our present contract for tuition, so that it wUl allow us tuition for a yearly average of 140 Indian pupils, said contract to include term beginning September 13, 1915. Yours, truly, .T. T. Walter, John Merchant, R. J. Geoff, Trustees. S. A. Selbcman, Principal. P. A. Pbterson, Clerk. SCHOOL AND AGENCY BUILDINGS. The Chalrman. Line 1, page 6, the House approved it for $400,000. For construction, lease, purchass, repair, and improvement of school and agency buildings, including the installation, repair, and improvement of heating, lighting, power, and water systems in connection therewith, 1400,000: Provided, That the Secretarv of th3 Intarior is authorized to allow employees in the Indian Service, who are furnished quarters, necessary heat and light for such quarters without charge, such heat and light to be paid for out of the fund chargeable with the cost of heating and lighting other buildings at the same place: Provided further, That the amount so expended for agency purposes shall not be included in the maximum amounts for compensation of employees prescribed by section one, act of August twenty-fourth, nineteen hundred and twelve: Provided, That of this amount there may be expended for construction of a sawer system and purchase of necessary easements therefor, for the Pala Indian Reservation, California, $4,000. Mr. Meeitt. Out estimates were for $450,000, The Chaikman. We gave you the $50,000 for the other; can you not let us retrench on that item ? Mr. Meritt. We will try to get along with that amount. The Chairman. Is there any objection to agreeing to it at $400,000 ? If not, it is agreed to at $400,000. TBANSPOKTATION OF INDIAN PUPJXS. The next item was as follows : For collection and transportation of pupils to and from Indian and public schools, and for placing school pupils, with the consent of their parents, under the care and con- trol of white families qualified to give them moral, industrial, and educational train- ing, $72,000: Provided, That not exceeding |5,000 of this sum may be used for obtain- 24 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. ing remunerative employment for Indian youths and, when necessary, for payment of transportation and other expenses to their places of employment. 1 he provisions of this section shall also apply to native Indian pupils of school age under twenty-one years of age brought from Alaska. That is estmated at $75,000; the House agreed to $72,000. Mr. Meritt. We accept the House appropriation. The Chairman. Is there any objection to agreeing to the House amount, $72,000 instead of $75,000? Without objection it is agreed to. Senator Pittman. That will come under this other amendment of ours, will it not, for $1,500,000? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; this is a specific appropriation for transpor- tation purposes. Senator Pittman. You could use the other for transportation purposes if you need it ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we use this for transportation. The Chairman. You do not use any of the $1,500,000 for trans- portation ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Lane. There is a complaint made regarding the use of this fund to the effect that you get pupils from Alaska, we will say, and pay their expenses down to Chemawa, or wherever it may be, then when the youngster becomes afEicted with tuberculosis, and many do, after the disease is well advanced so it is pretty well known and apparent to the layman, you send him or her back home, and some- times they do not live a month after they arrive there; sometimes they Hve not over three days, dying from the tuberculosis contracted at the school. They were not tubercular when they came there, and there has been some — oh, quite a deal of criticism of the expenditure of this fund in that way; the child coming far away from its home becomes homesick and run down, and naturally is an easy prey to the disease; it remains homesick,, becomes diseased and run down, until finally conditions get bad, then they send it home to die and to infect its parents and its brothers and sisters, so that fund is not altogether a good fund, I am sorry to say. Its purpose is well intended. Senator Gronna. Should not the practice of sending children away from home be limited as far as* possible ? Senator Lane. It should be stopped, if possible. Senator Gronna. What is the policy of the department in that respect ? Mr. Meritt. The policy of the department at this time is to encour- age Indians to attend the schools nearest their homes, but in the case of the Alaska children they have not adequate facilities in Alaska for all Indian children, and by authority of Congress we enrolled certain of those Alaska Indian children in the school at Chemawa, Oreg., and also a few, I believe, attend the Indian school at Cushman, but mostly at Chemawa. Senator Gronna. You say it is not the policy of the department to send children from one State to another State or, we might say, from one part of the State to another remote part of the State ? That is not the policy of the department? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Gronna. You try to keep them close to home as possible? INDIAN APPKOPEIATION Bll.l.. 25- Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Gronna. My personal observation is that ought to be done, because Indians when they do become homesick they are terrible sick. It is impossible for them to study. It is almost impossible for them to exist. The Chairman. And they are peculiarly susceptible to that as a^ race ? Senator Gronna. Yes; they are as a race. Senator Lane. I want to call your attention to one instance which I observed last fall at Chemawa. The children were mostly out, but in going through one of the buildings I found a little fellow around in a corner in bed, a boy about 14 years of age, and I asked him what was the matter, if he was sick. He said "yes." I asked him in what way and found that he had an enlarged gland in his groin which was probably tubercular, and I asked if he had told the doctor any- thing about it and he said "no." I asked him if he had had them before. He told me they were recurrent; that is he had them before. Then I asked him where he lived, and he lived up in Alaska near the mouth of Prince William Sound. I asked him how long he had been there and he said he has been there eight years, then he began to cry, and I asked him what the trouble was, and he said he wanted to go home. He said ho came there to learn gardening and his sister had come there to learn cooking, I think, and had gone home. I asked him if he had a home. He said his mother was dead but his father maintained a home. The poor little fellow's heart was broken. He said he knew just as much about gardening as he ever would, and he wanted to go home so bad. I will give you his name. I will pay one-half of his transportation. He can do no good there; that boy is going to die if he stays in Chemawa School; if you let him go home now he may live. Mr. Meeitt. We will be very glad to send him. hom.e. Senator Lane. These m.easures of relief should not be granted as courtesies. I am. not making any request, but in his condition he ought to go home. Mr. Meritt. We wiU be glad to send him home at the end of the school year. • Senator Curtis. Right along that hne is it not true that in the various schools you have a good m.any boys and girls who have been there many years and want to go hom.e, yet you do not permit them to go home. Is that not true at Haskell ? Mr. Meeitt. We enroll the boys and girls for a period of years, and, of course, we do discourage their going hom.e, so they may complete their education, but in a case like Senator Lane speaks of, I think that is a very proper case where we should send the boy hom.e. Senator Lane. I found there also that your officials were scouting around over the country, or had been last year, bringing children into that school from California, and I do not know where all, getting them into your school so as to make up a full roster. They go out and solicit. Senator Page. That is done m a good many schools. Senator. Senator Lane. Well, I do not know. It is bad for the Indian. Mr. Meritt. Indians in northern California would be very properly available for the school at Chemawa because it is conveniently located for those Indians. 26 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. Senator Johnson. Is it not the usual custom of your department in case of the desire for a transfer of an Indian child, whether he is in school, whether he is sick, or whatever may be the case, to rely entirely upon the agent as to whether he can go home or whether he can not ? In other words, a child belongs to this agency oyer here, Jie desires to go home and notifies his department or notifies the agent, does that agent not take it up then with this agent over here where the home is, and everything is smooth and satisfactory, then is it not all up as to what he says or the superintendent says, in the majority of cases ? Mr. Meritt. In the majority of cases we rely, of course, upon the report of the superintendent. We have supervising officials who visit these schools and make investigations, and if they find the super- intendent not doing the pr.oper thing, they call the matter to the attention of the office. The Chairman. Is there any objection to agreeing on this item of 172,000 instead of $75,000 ? It is agreed to. Commencing on page 7 Mr. Meritt. The House left out an item that we incorporated in OTir estimates and which has been incorporated in the Indian bill for a number of years. It is a short item and I will read it for the com- mittee. The Chairman. Where would you want it inserted ? Mr. Meritt. Beginning between the hues 3 and 4, on page 7, and it reads as follows : All moneys appropriated herein for school purposes among the Indians may be expended, without restriction, as to per capita expenditure for the annual support and educa'tion of any one pupil in any school. The Chairman. That was in the bill last year ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and the justification for it wiU be found oq Eage 59 of the House hearings. Prior to 1911, there was a law which mited the expenditure for each pupil at the reservation boarding schools to $167 per capita. The increased cost of living during the last few years has made it entirely impracticable to reduce the cost per capita to that amount. Senator Curtis. Does that not depend upon the ntimber of pupils you have? It does not cost you that much in the larger schools, does it ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; conditions vary in different schools. We are now able to keep the cost down in some of these larger reservation schools to $167, but where we have a small enrollment, and La some of the smaller boarding schools it naturally costs a good deal more to keep the children in those schools. Senator Curtis. When this question was up a good many years ago we had a little school in Kansas which cost you $183 a student, and although it was my own State I suggested that you abolish that school and give them a day school, and I think where your expenses run over $200 you ought to provide a day school for them. You can edu- cate these children — the different churches when they take care of these children, it costs them about $104 per capita and it costs the Government $167. Now you want to go over $200. You have got two schools where it costs you nearly $300 per pupil. IKDIAK APPBOPKIATION BILL. 27 Mr. Meeitt. Yes; those schools have Senator Curtis. Do you not think it unwise to pay that much when you can have them educated elsewhere for a good deal less and give them just as good an education as you are giving them now ? Mr. Meritt. Of course we would have to send those children to another State because there are no school facilities in northern Cali- fornia excepting those two Indian schools. Senator Curtis. How about these others where you want to remove the limitation. You surely have other schools in the neighborhood ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. You have only got about 1,100 children in non- reservation schools, have you not? Mr. Meritt. About 10,000. Senator Curtis. And you have established so many nonreservation schools and in some of them the students are so few in number that it costs you over the fixed rate. In the larger schools in California, New Mexico, Kansas, Pennsylvania, etc., it costs you less than $167, does it not ? Mr. Meritt. It costs us about that amount. Senator Curtis. Then why do that with your boarding schools that are so expensive and send these children to these other schools as day scholars? Mr. Meritt. Because, Senator, we have not now sufficient school capacity, even with these schools that are rather expensive to run, to provide for aU the children. We have probably 10,000 Indian children now without school facihties, and if we do away with these small reservation boarding schools, it will reduce the number of children who would have school facihties. Senator Curtis. Estabhsh day schools for them, or do they hve so ar from the school site, it would be impracticable for them to attend ? Mr. Meritt. It would be impracticable for them to attend the day school because their homes are not contiguous to the schools. Senator Page. How many are there of these scholars that are compelled to attend these expensive schools ? Mr. Meritt. That depends, of course, on the capacity of the school. The average capacity of schools that are rather expensively adminis- tered is about 100 pupils. Necessarily the overhead charges and upkeep makes the amount larger than the nonreservation schools where we have an enrollment of say 500. Senator Page. One of the last places, Senator Curtis, that I want to economize is on the schools. Senator Curtis. I think you are right, but the question which has always bothered me and this committee was if other people could educate these children for $104, why should it cost the Government $167? Now, they run from $167, and the average is $200 for non- reservation schools per child — about $200. You can send most of those children to day schools for less than that, or you can send them to Government schools for less than that. I do not mean Govern- ment schools, I mean pubhc schools. Of course, wh«re there are no schools — public schools — or the nonreservation schools are too far away, or where the Indians are scattered I think we ought to agree that the schools may cost $300 a pupil, but I do not believe we should but in general practice here to let them send children to school when it is going to cost $250 or $300, when they can be just as well educated in ar.hnr>ls elsewhere for less sums. 28 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Johnson. Ard, Senator Page, not only that, but they would get a great deal better education, and education that would enlarge them and be more beneficial. Senator Page. If they could go to ordinary public schools ? Senator Johnson. Absolutely, Senator. Senator Page. But where that was not practicable what are you going to do ? . . Senator Johnson. That is what Mr. Meritt says, that it is not practicable. But heretofore there has not been any effort made whatever to have that done. They have said they were going to do these things, but in my country that is all — there has been no encour- agement, no real encouragement to have that done. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the amendment of the commissioner proposed by Mr. Meritt ? It is agreed to by conseat. Senator Curtis. That takes out the limit of $167? The Chairman. On line 3, after the word "Alaska," insert "All moneys appropriated herein for school purposes among the Indians may be extended without restriction as to per capita expenditure for the annual support and education of any one pupil in any school." The Chairman. The next item is : industrial work and care of timber. For the purposes of preserving living and growing timber on Indian reservations and allotments, and to educate Indians in the proper care of forests; for the employ- ment of suitable persons as matrons to teach Indian women and girls housekeeping and other household duties, for necessary traveling expenses of such matrons, and for furnishing necessary equipments and supplies and renting quarters for them where necessary; for the conducting of experiments on Indian school or agency farms designed to test the possibilities of soil and climate in the cultivation of trees, grains, vegetables, cotton, and fruits, and for the employment of practical farmers and stock- men, in addition to the agency and school farmers now employed; for necessary trav- eling expenses of such farmers and stockmen and for furnishing necessary equipment and supplies for them ; and for superintending and directing farming and stock raising among Indians, $425,000: Provided, That the foregoing shall not, as to timber, apply to the Menominee Indian Reservation in Wisconsin; Provided furiher, That not to exceed $25,000 of the amount herein appropriated may be used to conduct experir menfs on Indian school or agency farms to test the possibilities of soil and climate in the cultivation of trees, cotton, grains, vegetables, and fruits; Provided, aZso, That the amounts paid to matrons, foresters, farmers, and stockmen herein provided for shall not be included within the limitation on salaries and compensation of employees contained in the act of August twenty-fourth, nineteen hundred and twelve. That is the same as last year, I think ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. I think it is the identical language used in 1914 and in the bill proposed in 1915. Senator Curtis. Would you need that much this year?- Mr. Meritt. The estimate is for $500,000; the House allowed us $425,000. This is an item where we should have our estimates, for this reason: Congress has during the last two or three years very materially increased our appropriations for industrial work, and this is for the purpose of carrying on this work that we use this appropria- tion. This appropriation takes care of the Indian farmers in the Indian Service, the forest guards who take care of the Indian timber; and we also provide for our field matrons out of this appropriation; Senator Gronna. This affects Wisconsin — that is, the Menominee Indians of Wisconsin. Senator Page. It excludes Menominee. Menominee has a special system. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 29 Mr. Meeitt. There is a special law applying to Menominee Reserva- tion; that is the reason this proviso is incorporated. We can not administer the other funds that have been heretofore appropriated by Congress, and are being appropriated, unless we have ample money provided in this item here to carry on that work. Senator Cuetis. I notice in your expenditures that about all of that appropriation except about $100,000 went for salaries. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that is the purpose of this appropriation — to pay salaries of employees. Senator Curtis. To send out among the Indians to educate them and take care of their stock; and farmmg, maintenance,, and supplies are included 1 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we pay out of this appropriation the salaries and expenses of 79 matrons, 210 farmers, 31 stockmen, 105 super- visors of forests, forest guards, and rangers. Senator Pittman. I want to state that in my opinion that is one of the most important duties that can be performed for the Indians, to teach them something useful by which they can earn their own living. The Chairman. What is the sense of the committee? Shall we agree to it at $500,000 « Senator Gronna. I suppose Senator La FoUette is greatly inter- ested in this. The Chairman. I think he is satisfied with regard to the situation at Menominee. Senator Lane. About this preservation of timber. We have more timber in our State, or as much as in any other State in the Union, and some of the Indians own large bodies of timber. That timber is becoming overripe — a great deal of it. Mr. Meritt. We are getting ready now to offer some of that timber for sale. Senator Lane. The Indians have timber on their allotment, and I think, with the best intention in the world on the part of the bureau and the commissioner and yourself, that an injustice has been done them. They are not allowed to sell any of it, and it is working a great hardsnip on them. Mr. Meritt. During the last two years the price of timber has been at a very low iebb. The price now is materially increasing and we are getting ready to seU some of the timber off that reservation. We thought we would be doing the Indians an injustice to sell the timber on such a low market such as we have had the last two years. Senator Lane. I know, but the Indians themselves are restricted from selling the timber on their allotments. The Chairman. Shall we agree to the item of 1500,000? Is there any objection? If not, it is agreed to at $500,000. Senator Lane. I am making reservations all the time on a lot of this stuff. The Chairman. Page 8, line 7 : PUECHASE OF SUPPLIES. For the purchase of goods and supplies for the Indian Service including inspection, Dav of necessary employees, and all other expenses connected therewith, including advertising storage, and transportation of Indian goods and supplies, $300,000: Fro- inded That'no part of the sum hereby appropriated shall be used for the maintenance 30 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. of to exceed one permanent warehouse in the Indian Service: Provided furthtr, That section thirty-seven hundred and nine, Revised Statutes, in so far as that section requires that advertisement be made, shall apply only to those purchases and con- tracts for supplies or services, except personal services, for the Indian field service which exceed in amount the sum of $50 each, and section twenty-three of the Act of June twenty-fifth, nineteen hundred and ten (Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page eight hundred and sixty-one), is hereby amended accordingly. Senator Geonna. I ask that go over. I want to look into that. Senator Page. That was changed from 3 last year to 1 this year. Mr. Meeitt. Our estimates were not exceeding 3 warehouses, and the house reduced the number to 1. The Chaieman. Do you want it to go over as to the amount also ? Senator GtEONNA. The whole paragraph. I want to look into that. Mr. Meeitt. The amount is in accordance with our estimates, and we are satisfied with the amount. Senator Geonna. I am not standing on the amount, it is the policy. The Chaieman. We will let it go over. The next is line 23. telephone and telegeaph. For telegraph and telephone toll messages on business pertaining to the Indian Service sent and received by the Bureau of Indian Affairs at Washington, $10,000. Senator Page. I move we adopt the House provision. The Chaieman. It is agreed to in the absence of objection. Page 9, line 1 : WITNESS FEES. For witness fees and other legal expenses incurred in suits instituted in behalf of or against Indians involving the question of title to lands allotted to them, or the right of possession of personal property held by them, and in hearings set by the United States local land officers to determine the rights of Indians to pubUc lands, $1,000: Provided, That no part of this appropriation shall be used in the payment of attorneys' fees. Senator Page. I move that it be approved. The Chaieman. In the absence of objection it is agreed to. "For expenses of the Board of Indian Commissioners, 110,000." Senator Page. I move that it be agreed to. The Chaieman. Is there any objection ? If not, it is agreed to. INDIAN POLICE. For pay of Indian police, including chiefs of police at not to exceed $50 per month each and privates at not to exceed $30 per month each, to be employed in maintaining order, for purchase of equipments and supplies and for rations for policemen at non- ration agencies, $200,000. For pay of judges of Indian courts where tribal relations now exist, $8,000. Senator Geonna. I move it be agreed to. The Chaieman. Without objection, it is agreed to. JUDGES or COURTS. For pay of judges of Indian courts where tribal relations now exist, $8,000. Senator Geonna. I move we increase that to $1 0,000. Senator Page. Let us see about that for a minute. Why should it be increased ? INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 31 Senator Geonna. I heard the statement — I do not know whether the Senator will recollect; but the statement was made by Mr. Meritt. He went into that very thoroughly, and I remember very well the statement made, and I believe it is a good provision. Mr. Meritt. We estimated for $10,000. The justification for it will be found beginniag on page 95 of the House hearings. The Chairman. How much of it did you use last year ? Mr. Meritt. We used practically the entire appropriation. There is 1700 left over. The Chairman. Is there any objection to agreeing to it at $10,000 ia accordance with the estimate ? In the absence of objection, it is agreed to. Page 9, line 11, as follows: PAT OF SPECIAL AGENTS. For pay of special agents, at $2,000 per annum; for traveling and incidental ex- penses of such special agents, including sleeping-car fare, and a per dienr of not to exceed $3 in lieu of subsistence, in tlie discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, when actually employed on duty in the field or ordered to the seat of government; for transportation and incidental expenses of officers and clerks of the Office of Indian Affairs when traveling on official duty: for pay of employees not otherwise provided for: and for other necessary expenses of the Indian Service for which no other appro- priation is available, |135,000. Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. Senator Lane. What do these special agents do ? Mr. Meritt. They make investigations out on Indian reservations and at Indian schools. Senator Lane. Of the conditions ? Mr. Meritt. Of the conditions, and whenever charges are filed agahist employees we have them investigated by these officials. Senator Lane. I do not know about that work. They allow some very bad management to go on unnoticed year after year, or if it is reported by them it is not remedied by the department. Senator Page. Where is the justification for that ? Mr. Meritt. On page 97 of the House Hearings. This appro- priation is also a general appropriation. Where other funds are not available we can use this appropriation for emergencies. Senator Lane. The conditions on Blackfeet were deplorable and these gentlemen have been traveling back and forth over that agency for 40 years, and cor ditions were not remedied until we made a special investigation, ar d I think perhaps there is some improvement now. But they should have reported that, and vou should have full knowledge of that and other conditions long before. I am going to call your attention to matters later, which makes it appear to me that some of these gentlemen ought to do something soon, or else you should put somebody else in their places. Some of these things are hurting the bureau, making people of this country lose confidence in it, ar d these gentlemen visiting them all the time and not cor- recting them, or at least seemingly not making reports so you should correct them. , „ , , i . ■ • • i Senator Pittman. That is not the fault of the provision, it is the fault of the individuals. 32 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. Senator Lane. It goes on year after year, and those conditions have existed without any improvement at all. Senator Pittman. StiQ we ought to have some kmd of agents to check these agents up. Senator Lane. Certainly, we ought to have a different kind. Mr. Meeitt. We have recently appointed five new inspectors, Senator Lane, and those inspectors have been assigned to certain districts. Senator Lane. It is stated by some of these agents that if they report the exact and true condition of affairs, they are very apt to lose their jobs. Senator Pittman. A charge of that kind ought to be a subject of investigation. Mr. Meeitt. We wotdd like to know the name of any superintend- ent or employee who would make a statement of that kind and not have a basis for it. Senator Lane. Surely; and for that reason they won't come through. Senator Pittman. I understand; but for an agent or superintend- ent or anyone to say a thing like that to you or anyone else behind the back of the commissioner and then not come out and make a specific charge, I think is cowardly, and it seems to me a man of that kind is not worthy of belief. Senator Lane. Such charges have been filed here and they are of record, and the agent lost his job. Senator Pittman. The committee should investigate to see whether he lost it justly or not. Senator Lane. It was some time ago, but that is what happened. "Mr. Meeitt. It is the duty of the superintendents and inspectiag ofiicials to keep the commissioner and the Indian Office advised of the conditions on that reservation, and if we have any superin- tendents or inspecting officials in the service who think it is their duty to cover up these conditions they have no true conception of their jobs, and we would like to know their names so we could have some people there who would fiU the jobs properly. Senator Lane. I was talking about the special agents. The condi- tions continue to exist, and yet these agents are still inspecting them. They do not do their duty untU somebody starts a row about it. Now, I am going to fix it up for you, as soon as I get the facts in my possession, so that you can make changes in your department and in your agents who have been inspecting right along. The Chaieman. What is the pleasure of the committee ? WUl you agree to it ? Senator Geonna. I move it be agreed to. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chaieman. The next is : INDIAN SEEVICE INSPECTOES. For pay of six Indian Service inspectors, exclusive of one chief inspector, at salaries not to exceed $2,500 per annum and actual traveling expenses, and $3 per diem in lieu of subsistence when actually employed on duty in the field, $30,000. Those positions were created by the act which we passed in 1914, and that is the same appropriation that was in the bill of 1914, is it not? INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 33 Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. Is there any objection to that ? Senator Lane. Just the same as the other. Mx. Meritt. We are satisfied, Mr. Chairman, with the amount allowed by the House, which was in accordance with our estimate. The Chairman. It is agreed to. HEIRS OF INDIAN ALLOTTEES. For the purpose of determinmg the heirs of deceased Indian allottees having any right, title, or interest in any trust or restricted property, under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior, $90,000: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to use not to exceed $20,000 for the employment of additional clerks in the Indian Office in connection with the work of determining the heirs of deceased Indians, and examining their wills, out of the $90,000 appropriated herein: Provided further, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to the Osage Indians nor to the Five Civilized Tribes of Indians in Oklahoma: And provided further. That hereafter upon a determination of the heir to any trust or restricted Indian property or after approval by the Secretary of any will covering such trust or restricted property, there shall be paid by such heirs, or by the beneficiaries under such will, or from the estate of the decedent, or from the proceeds of sale of the allot- ment, or from any trust funds belonging to the estate of the decedent, the sum of $15, which amount shall be accounted tor and paid into the Treasury of the United States and a report shall be made annually to Congress by the Secretary of the Interior, on or before the first Monday of December, of all moneys collected and deposited, as herein provided: Provided further, That if the Secretary of the Interior shall find that any inherited trust allotment or allotments are capable of partition to the advan- tage of the heirs, he may cause such lands to be partitioned among them, patents in fee to be issued to the competent heirs for their shares and trust patents to be issued to the incompetent heii-s for the lands respectively or jointly set apart to them, the trust period to terminate in accordance with the terms of the original patent. Senator Owen. Mr. Meritt, will you explain the necessity for that ? Is that a perpetual matter that you are engaged in ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. The act of June 25, 1910, authorized the Secretary of the Interior to determine the heirs of deceased Indians outside of the Five Civilized Tribes and the Osage Nation. At the tune of the passage of that act there were probably 40,000 heirship cases pending in the field undetermined. Congress two or three years ago made the first appropriation for this work. "We have been very active in this matter, and we are determining these cases at the rate of about 10,000 a year and cleaning up the accumulated cases. Senator Owen. Is your decision a legal finality ? Mr. Meritt. The decision of the Secretary of the Interior is final. Senator Owen. I have no objection. The Chairman. There is no objection to the item. What about the amount ? . j j Mr Meritt. We would like to have the amount increased accord- ing to our estimates. We estimated 1100,000, and the House allowed us $90 000. We would also like to have the amount that may be used in the ofiice increased from $20,000 to $25,000, m accordance with our estimates. The Chairman. That is in line 14; change $20,000 to $25,000. Mr. Meritt. Then in line 12, change $90,000 to $100,000. _ _ Senator Owen. Unless there is some very special reason justifying it I should prefer to have the House provision stand. 'senator Page. So should I. I do not think we ought to agree to any increase whatever without any knowledge of it. The House has 31362—16 3 34 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. considered this and reduced the amount, and they must have had some good reason for doing so. • i. d The Chairman. On what page of the House hearings is that ? Senator Lane. Page 103. Senator Pittman. I suggest that this go over until we have an opportunity to investigate the House hearing. The Chairman. It will be passed over, at the suggestion of the Senator from Nevada. Mr. Meritt. There are one or two amendments we would like to have incorporated, aside from the amounts. The Chairman. Please prepare your amendments and have them ready for to-morrow, will you ? Mr. Meritt. I have them ready now. The Chairman. Line 16, page 11: ENCOURAGING INDUSTRY AND SELF-SUPPORT. For the purpose of encouraging industry and self-support among the Indians and to aid them in the culture of fruits, grains, and other crops, $300,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be immediately available, which sum may be used for the purchase of seed, animals, machiiiery, tools, implements, and other equip- ment necessary, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, to enable Indians to become self-supporting: Provided, That said sum shall be expended under con- ditions to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior for its repayment to the United States on or before June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and twenty-five: Pro- vided further, That not to exceed $50,000 of the amount herein appropriated shall be expended on any one reservation or for the benefit of any one tribe of Indians. Mr. Meritt. We estimated $500,000 for this work, and we very much nseded it. Indians who have been allotted are now applying to the office for reimbursible funds, and we are unable to supply them with those funds. It seems to me it is one of the very important items. We have allotted Indians lands and they have no money with which to begin farming operations on those lands, and this is the appropriation that enables us to give that assistance. We reduced our estimate $100,000 below the amount allowed last year. Senator Curtis. What does that revolving fund amount to now? Mr. Meritt. About a million and a hfdf dollars. That fund, though, is out and we are unable to meet the present needs of the Indians. Senator Curtis. What do you mean by "out" ? Mr. Meritt. It has been expended. Senator Curtis. Has any of it been replaced ? Mr. Meritt. Part of it has been replaced. But it has been avail- able the last two years, and of course it will be several years before they will be able to pay that money back. Senator Lane. Are they doing good work in the way of paying it back? Mr. Meritt. On some of the reservations where they have had it longer than a year or two they are beginning to pay back and are showing a very commendable spirit. The Chairman. They are beginning to pay it back. One tribe paid back $15,000. Mr. Meritt. That was on the Tongue River Eeservation. Of course, we expect to lose part of this money. Senator Owen. How much do you expect to lose ? INDUN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 35 Mr. Meritt. Probably 40 per cent of the amount advanced to individual Indians, but that will be better than making a gratuity appropriation. Senator Lane. I noticed that on the Warm Springs Reservation that you purchased cattle, a greater number than they could handle on their range, and over the protest of the superintendent, who said he could not handle them, that he could not get feed for that many, and against the best judgment of the present superintendent, and that they sold part of those cattle to the Indians (in addition to making a tribal herd of part of them), on three years' time. And some of the Indians "drew" cows that some were 10 years old, and some 7 years old. John D. Rockefeller himself could not beat that game. Those poor fellows are going to lose, and those sales of old cattle and excessive numbers of cattle to individual Indians ought to be canceled; they ought to be forgiven their debt. They have been induced to buy Senator Cxm'fis. Why did the department permit that ? Senator Lane. I do not know. I have this information straight. I saw the cattle on the range at the beginning of the winter, with but little feed on hand for wmter. They have bought some since at a heavy price ; cattle men were getting rid of their cattle on account of the scarcity of feed. Those cattle were getting in bad condition, and there will be no profit made on the old cattle. Mr. Mekitt. The specifications for the purchase of these cattle called for 3 and 4 year old cattle. Senator Lane. Yes; and they have some 7, 8, 9, and 10 years old. Mr. Mekitt. After they were purchased they were inspected by representatives of the Government and accepted. Of course, there was a mistake made in connection with the purchase of the cattle on that reservation; we will concede that. Senator Cxjktis. Have 'there been similar mistakes made on other reservations ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; that was just one mistake that was made on that reservation. The Chairman. I wotdd hke to suggest that in Hne 3, page 12, that limitation, in my judgment, ought to be increased not to exceed $75,000, instead of $50,000. I have in mind the State of New Mexico especially. They can not use for any practical purposes the sum of $50,000, say, in buying a herd. Mr. Meritt. Our estimate was for $100,000. The Chairman. Both Senators frqm New Mexico have urged that it be $100,000. We carried $75,000 in 1914 and in last year's bill. Mr. Meritt. We would prefer $100,000, but, of course, $75,000 would be better than $50,000. Senator Owen. When you are distributing this over so many btates in such large sums it does not look to me like a very equitable dis- tribution. ., 1 , , .V Mr Meritt. Where we want to buy a tribal herd we can not buy very many cattle for $50,000. It is more practicable to buy $100,000 worth of cattle where you have grazing facihties for them. Senator Page. If they got the $500,000, Senator, it would give a little better distribution than if they are allowed only $300,000, as the House has left it. 36 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. Senator Owen. I think this is a very commendable form of appro- priation, but I think the administration should be more careful than to lose 40 per cent of it. If they are losing 40 per cent of it, certainly the Members who vote for these items on the theory that it is a revolving fund, when, as a matter of fact, it is not aU reimbursable, wiU be acting under a misapprehension. Mr. Meritt. Probably I should have said 25 per cent instead of 40 per cent. Senator Owen. You will probably improve in tha,t administration as you proceed ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Is there any objection to increasing that to $75,000? Senator Page. It seems to me we ought first to decide whether we shall make this $300,000 or $500,000. Senator Pittman. I think it ought to be $500,000. I do not think there is any better service than service under that plan. Senator Owen. I agree -with that. Ihere is no better fund than this fund, which is used for instructing these people how to take care of themselves. Senator Curtis. That is true, gentlemen, but I think we had better go slow and find out whether they are doing it. We had one experience a few years ago, and the herd was entirely dissipated. You have already had one instance called to your minds -where they bought old and worthless cows. Let us not increase this too much; let us go a little slow and see that the rules and regulations of the department provide for the buying of young cattle. Let them make their annual reports so we can see whether it is being done or not. Senator Owen. What do you do with an employee when he con- ducts this business improperly ? Do you continue him in the service ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. We are dismissing employees constantly, on recommendations of officials. Senator Curtis. The trouble, though, is that you depend largely on the reports of your superintendents. If the superintendent agrees with your inspector or special agent you sustain him. I know that is the complaint that comes about it. I have a letter in my possession, or had it a few weeks ago, from a party that was discharged because he had complained of misconduct of some employee, and the super- intendent stood with the other party. They claimed the record there clearly showed they were right. (Thereupon, at 12 o'clock m., the committee adjourned to meet at 10 o'clock a. m., Wednesday, February 16, 1916.) INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. WEDNESDAY, PEBRTJABY 16, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs. The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), presiding, Lane, Owen, Hust- ing, Clapp, La Follette, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. ENCOURAGEMENT OF INDUSTRY AND SELF SUPPORT. The Chairman. At adjournment time yesterday we were on the industrial item of $500,000. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; on page 11, line 18. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee; what shall we agree to on that item, what figure? Senator Page. Just to be ugly I will move to raise that figure to $400,000. Senator Curtis. What did you have left over there last year, Mr. Meritt. Mr. Meritt. Practically the entire appropriation is hypothecated. We need every dollar that we have requested, Senator Curtis. This is the appropriation through which we are getting the Indians started on their allotments. Senator Cuhtis. I know. Mr. Meritt. I stated yesterday that there would probably be a loss of 25 per cent. That did not apply to the cattle we were pur- chasing for the Indians as a tribal herd . Senator Curtis. What have you done to get rid of the objection raised by Senator Lane, buying those old cattle ? If the department is buying old cattle, we ought not to appropriate a doUar. Mr. Meritt. We are haviag these cattle very carefully inspected and are going to have them inspected W the local people as well as by the inspectors of the Agricultural Department, and keep very careful check on them so there will be no further complaint. Senator Gronna. I wish to say just one word before you vote. I was very much in favor of this feature of beginning a plan which I believed would stimulate the Indian to be more industrious, that is, give him some cattle and give him machinery and give him some- thing to work with. The department is not to blame for any failure that has been made. I say they are not to blame. I mean they are 37 38 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. not personally to blame. They, of course, have done what they thought was best, but the mistake is made in the selection of men. I think you will remember, Mr. Meritt, that I dwelt on that with some force last year, and I think I was perhaps the only one on the com- mittee—I do not know of anybody who shared m my convictions, but I hve close to reservations and I know what is going on. I will take now, for instance. Devils Lake Reservation. There was one youno- man sent up there last year— you took him from New York- he was sent there for the purpose of educating the Indians or teaching the Indians how to farm. WeU the poor boy did.not know the dif- ference between macaroni fife wheat. I know that as a matter of fact. He did not know the difference between one type of wheat and an- other. Now what can you expect of a man like that ? The trouble is, and you remember Senator La Follette took exception to my state- ment last year when I said the trouble is that you take them out of schools and the Indian knows as much about farming as they do. They have had no practical experience ; all they have is a little book knowledge. They are incompetent and it is a waste of money and I wish the department would look into this. You can not make a farmer out of a man simply by educating him, teaching him to read Ibsen, or Burns, or Emerson or some of those poets; that does not make him a farmer competent to farm, and I feel disposed not to criticize the department for what they are doing but for the class of men that they are selecting and who are trying to educate the Indians. What the Indian needs more than anything else is good, experienced men who are able to teach them how to work wisely with their hands as well as with their minds. That is what the Indian needs. If the Indian produces grain, the whites next to the Indian reservation will rob them when they thrash for them. As a rula the Indians do not own their own thrashing machines. I know of instances where they have been charged 30 cents a bushel when 10 cents and 12 cents is the high price for thrashing their grain, but the poor Indian has to pay 25 to 35 cents a bushel to have his grain thrashed. Those things ought to be looked after. Ssna'or Curtis. But the superintendent in charge is a business man, is he not? Senator Gkonna. Well, the superintendent is a man who lives in his office and the superintendent remains in his ofHce and his duties seem to be to stay in his office and they have to come to him. Senator Curtis. Why do they not have a farmer there? Senator Geonna. They have this boy who was sent out from New York. If he was employed on my farm I would send him out on what we call the "water wagon" to take water to the men. That is the way I would employ him on my farm. And this method of appointing men is something I believe the department could improve. The Chairman. There is force in the Senator's statement. He has had experience; he is a practical man. We must remember that the Indian Department is handicapped by these so-called "civil-service laws." I have given considerable attention to these items. I think of all items in the biU there is none more meritorious than this one. Senator Gronna. I agree with the chairman. The Chairman. It is one of the items, if any, which is going to help the Indian to mingle with society and mingle with business men and adopt the Inodern twentieth century methods. INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 39 +>,^T^!r°^ Gronna. But if we are going to appropriate money for j-# ^^" to buy farm machinery and buy cattle it must be done in a ditterent way than it was done last year. The cattle should be distributed among the Indians, just a few head to each. There is no use to buy a great herd of cattle for an Indian who does not know how to take care of one head. The first thing is to teach the Indian how to take care of one head, then give him that one head, then give hun as many more as he can take care of. There is no use to buy a great herd of cattle and let those cattle perish, because they will perish if they are not taken care of. I know of my own knowledge what the Indian produces— and on the Devils Lake Eeservation they made great progress in developmg farming, but when they come to thrash gram, as I said, they are robbed by white men. Now, I thmk there should be an agent there to look after their interests, and if they can not hire this thrashing done they should buy an inex- pensive thrashing machine, should be permitted to buy their own machine and thrash their own grain and not have it done by those from outside the reservation. In that way they can make it up again, and they can pay the thrashing rate. Senator Lane. Which appropriation is this? The Chaikman. Page 11, line 18. Senator Lane. I think, Senator Gronna, the only way you will -ever accomphsh what you want or get the results they ought to have will be to make another appropriation to accompany this item of an equal amount to teach the employees of the Indian Bureau how to teach the Indians. The Chairman. Who is going to teach them? Senator Gronna. I find no fault with the men in the bureau. These men in the bureau can not possibly understand all these things. They are as competent men as we can find. Senator Lane. I thought you said you saw one out there whom you would not employ except on the water wagon. Senator Gronna. He is not in the bureau. They pick out these men simply because they have a little book learning. I have nothing against the book learning, but they ought to know something about the mission upon which they are sent. Senator Lane. I think that is why there ought to be another item of the same amount to teach those people how to teach the Indians. Mr. Meritt. May I make a short statement there ? As you have stated, Mr. Chairman, we are required by law to select our farmers through the civil service. We have only the right to select one out of three who are certified to the Indian Bureau. We exercise our very best judgment in selecting the best one of those certified to us as farmers. They pass a regular civil-service examination, and we usually select the man who makes the best showing. Now, as to the use of the funds during the last two years. We feel in the Indian Bureau that we have made a wonderful showing under this reimbursable appropriation. The Indians have very ma- terially increased the acreage of land cultivated. There are more Indians who are farming to-day than ever before. Probably there has been 15 per cent increase in area actually cultivated in the last two years. There have been a few mistakes made in the handling of this reimbursable appropriation, which amounts to about $1,500,- 000 heretofore appropriated by Congress. The most noticeable one 40 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. is the mistake pointed out by Senator Lane. We feel, however, that the stock industry is a decided success. We are handhng these trihal herds not as individual propositions on most of the reserva- tions, but as tribal herds, and we are seeing that they are properly taken care of. Those herds are increasing very rapidly, and to-day; they are worth a great deal more than the Government paid for them, and after the Indians are sufficiently developed so they can handle these cattle individually we shall be glad to have the cattle issued to the Indians individually. Past experience has shown on some reservations that where you issue cattle to the individual Indians the shrewder mixed bloods gradually acquire those cattle, and we are protecting all the Indians by keeping the cattle as a tribal herd for the present. We feel that this is one of the most desirable and most needed appropriations in the Indian bill. The Indians have been allotted probably 40,000,000 acres of agricultural land; they are without funds to begin development and farming operations on those allotments, and it is absolutely necessary that they have funds so that they can begin work. Senator Geonna. May I ask Mr. Meritt how those herds are taken care of, whether by white people or by Indians ? Mr. Meeitt. We usually have a stockman who is a white man in charge of the herd, and the superintendent employs Indians to assist the stockman. Senator Geonna. They are given an opportunity to learn how to take care of stock that way, are they ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Since studying this question yesterday I feel that on the entire appropriation there wiU not be a loss to the Gov- ernment of to exceed 15 per cent, and we feel that it is much better to make reimbursable appropriations than to ask for gratuity appropriations for the Indians. By this method we teach the Indians that it is up to them 4o begin work and to conduct their operations the same as a white man. We have had wonderful success with this appropriation, and I feel that if Congress will for a few years more make adequate appropriations for this work the Indians of the country will become very largely self-supporting. Senator Geonna. I do not want to take up too much time of the committee, but what is done with respect to these herds ? Do you take an annual inventory of this stock the same as a business man would of his own affairs, the same as a good farmer would ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Geonna. Have you such an inventory in your bureau ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we can give you a report as to the condition of the herds on each reservation, and the commissioner selected a very able business man and a practical stockman to visit each reser- vation where we had tribal herds this last winter, the beginning of the winter, and he made careful reports on the condition of thosd herds. Senator Geonna. Where are these herds that you speak of, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meeitt. The largest herd is on the Crow Reservation. Senator Geonna. In Montana ? Mr. Meritt. In Montana, where we have had a loss of less than 10 per cent and a very material increase in the herd. INDIAN APPROPEIATXON BILL. 41 Senator Geonna. You mean a loss of the stock ? Of course, there would necessarily be a loss in the value until they grow into value, because cattle are cheaper this year than last year; of course, that is not the fault of the department. But when you say a loss you mean a loss of 10 per cent of the stock ? Mr. Meritt. Of the stock. That, of course, does not include the calves that we have. The value of that herd has increased probably 25 per cent during the last two years. We have also a herd on the Wind River Reservation. I would be glad if you could see a picture of that herd. It is a splendid herd of white-faced Herefords. Senator Gkonna. What other herds have you ? Mr. Meritt. We have a herd on the Mescalero Reservation in New Mexico, and a small herd on the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana. Senator Geonna. You have, then, three herds on these various Indian reservations altogether ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we brought smaller herds on other reserva- tions. I think the justification appearing in the House hearings, beginning with page 107, gives detailed information regarding the cattle on the various reservations, the amount that has been expended, and also information regarding the reimbursable feature. Senator Gronna. Of course, I had in mind that the greatest value that would come to the Indians would be the experience they would be given. Senator Lane. The majority of the Indians get no experience from a tribal herd. They are tended by a few herders. Do you not think so? Senator Gronna. If you wiU pardon me, I was just going to make a brief statement. The greatest value will come from the experience that will be given to the Indian and also the fact that we would stimu- late him to thrift and industry. That was my idea, that we would teach him to take care of cattle and to farm, to handle cattle and handle farm machinery, and in that way take an interest in it and by and by he would be able to take care of himself. That was really my idea. But, of course, I can see no great benefit to the Indian as an Indian — as a tribe — if the United States Government merely invested large amounts of money and put the cattle out on the plains to graze to raise stock for them. You might just as weU, perhaps, buy them. Senator Curtis. If they would use the Indians in helping to take care of the stock. Senator Gron'na. I say, unless you can teach them, unless you can teach the Indian how to take care of these cattle, give him an educa- tion in that line, why, I can not see that it is of very much benefit to him. Senator Cuht'is. A number of years ago Congress provided m the bill that they should employ experts in the neighborhood regardless of civil service, and I think that policy was very satisfactory, but the first thing we knew the department recommended that everybody be employed from the civil service, and I think that has caused the trouble that Senator Gronna suggests. The Chairman. Mr. Sloan wishes to be heard. Senator Lane. Just here, please, I think, Senator Gronna, that the department has done wisely in buying these cattle and wiU have accompished great good if they take care of them, even though 42 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. it may prove that they lose some of them. For this reason, if no other, that it allows the Indians to graze their own lands and they get the benefit of that increase in their property and a better food supply. Therein it does good, there is no doubt of it. Otherwise those lands would be grazed over and "sheeped" by the white man and the Indian would gain no benefit, or practically none, only 10 cents an acre rental, which amounts to nothing.. But I think that your idea is right, that as soon as possible, instead 'of having two or three Indian herders, or half a doezn, that we should divide these cattle among the Indians, get them to take care of their individual herds, and that in that way you would ultimately gain the greatest good. Senator Geonna. There is no responsibility on them this way. Senator Lane; None at all. As it is now, if an Indian rides alone and sees a steer "down" in a snowdrift, if it belongs to the tribal herd he goes on, but if it is his own steer he wiU pull it out. Mr. Meeitt. Senator Lane, that is exactly what the bureau has in mind to do as we develop this reimbursable feature. The Chairman. Mr. Sloan wishes to be heard very briefly on this item. STATEMENT OF ME. THOMAS L. SLOAN. Mr. Sloan. I wish to speak about the remark made that cattle when owned by the individuals would go into the hands of a shrewder and sharper mixed-blood Indian. On one of the reservations where they have had individual cattle the cattle have gone into the hands of mixed-blood Indians, but they were simpJy a stool pigeon between the trader and the full-blood Indian, and it could not have been done if it had not been done through the connivance of white officials, either in charge of the district or agency reservation, and I feel that while those remarks are being made that the fault and blame should be placed where it belongs. If proper supervision is exercised and proper enforcement of the laws are administered the mixed-blood Indian has no more advantage than the full-blood, and whenever cattle are disposed of under the rules and regulations of the depart- ment, it is done under supervision either of the agent or the district farmer, and if he connives at such things I think he is more to blame than the Indian or the mixed-blood, and I think the blame should fall where it belongs. The Chairman (to Senator La Foliette entermg) . The item, Sena- tor, under consideration is on page 11, line 16; it is the industrial item, the reimbursable fund. The question was discussed yesterday some- what and has been considered this morning. The department esti- mated for $500,000; the House agreed to $300,000. The commis- sioner has made a very forceful statement to the effect that this is one of the most important items in the whole bill; that it is reimbursable; 25 to 40 per cent of it is repaid, and there is no legal security taken, no security that could be enforced in court of law. I think the Indians have made a wonderful showing. Senator Owen. I move that it be made $500,000. The Chairman. The question is on the motion of the Senator from Vermont, who has a motion pending to make it $400,000. Senator Page. Just one word in regRxd to my motion there. We are making this Indian appropriation biU a very large one. Last year we were asked to make the sum $600,000, because we were to buy large numbers of cattle. The great bulk of this $600,000 was paid INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 43 out for cattle, as it probably should have been. Now, I am not speaking particularly as to this item; I am not in favor of accepting Mr. Meritt's statement or the department's statement, and I have the greatest respect for Mr. Meritt and the department; I am not in favor of their statements where the House has considered the matter and has cut down the item from $500,000 to $300,000 without a definite showmg to this committee. I want to Imow, I want to be shown — I want to cut the appropriation down, so that our whole bill when taken together will not be so much above what it ought to be as to be the proper subject of criticism when we get on the floor of the Senate. The Chairman. Do you wish to press your motion. Senator? Senator Page. I do. The Chairman. The first motion is by the Senator from Vermont, to make the item $400,000. Senator Owen. I withdraw my motion. The Chairman. Those in favor of that motion wiU say aye. Those opposed, no. (The question being taken by yeas and nays resulted, yeas 9, nays none, as follows: Senators Ashurst, Lane, Owen, Husting, Clapp, La Follette, Page, Gronna, and Curtis.) So the motion was agreed to. Mr. Meritt. Could we have the amount interlined on page 12 changed from $50,000 to $100,000, in accordance with our estimates ? That does not increase the appropriation. I suggest in view of the fact that it has been reduced to $400,000 that the amount be made $75,000 instead of $50,000. Senator Gronna. I should like to hear from Senator Lane, who lives out in that country. Senator Owen. On page 12 he is proposing to change this $50,000 to $75,000. In what State do you expect to spend the $75,000 ? Mr. Meritt. We will expend it on a number of reservations. For example, we should like to expend at least $75,000 additional money on the Mescalaro Reservation in New Mexico. We have a large reser- vation there and splendid grazing lands and no cattle with which to utilize that grazing land, and we can buy a very small herd with only $50,000. We can buy many more cattle with the $75,000. Senator Owen. Your point is it makes a much more satisfactorily administered herd of 1,000 or 2,000 than a herd of 500 ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. At that rate how much money will it take to get cattle on the reservation in different parts of the United States ? Last year you expended $75,000 on Standing Rock. That was one- fourth of your appropriation. Mr. Meritt. We had a specific appropriation for that, Senator. Senator Curtis. It does not say so here. Mr. Meritt. I might say that in the future we wiU not expend so much of this appropriation f of the purchase of cattle as we will for the purchase of farming equipment. We have stocked a number of the reservations with cattle, and we hope to expend a larger percentage for the purchase of farming equipment to be issued to individual allottees. ■ Senator Gronna. Out of last year's appropriation, if I understand the figures on page 108, practically all has been expended in the pur- chase of live stock? 44 INDIAN APPROPRIATION Ull 1.. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; we spent $421,000 for live stock, $67,000 for farming implements, $13,000 for fencing material, $8,000 for building material, and $22,000 for seeds, etc. Those are round numbers. The Chairman. Is there any objection to increasing the item on line 3 « Senator Gkonna. I shall object to that — that is, I shall vote against it. The Chairman. Those in favor of making it $75,000 will say "aye." Opposed, "no." (The amendment was disagreed to, Senator Gronna voting "no.") The next item is line G, page 12, as foUows: MOTORS AND HORSE-DRAWN VEHICLES FOR SUPERINTENDENTS. That not to exceed $200,000 of applicable appropriations made herein for the Bureau of Indian Affairs shall be available for the maintenance, repair, and operation of motor- propelled and horse-drawn passenger-carrying vehicles for the use of superintendents, farmers, physicians, field matrons, allotting, irrigation, and other employees in the Indian field service : Provided, That not to exceed $15,000 may be used in the purchase of horse-di-awn passenger-carrying vehicles, and not to exceed $30,000 for the purchase of motor-propelled passenger-carrying vehicles, and that such vehicles shall be used only for official service. Senator Page. Where are those supposed to be used, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. On the reservations throughout the western country. Senator Page. Could any of it be used here in the city ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. The Chairman. There is a law of Congress prevfenting such use. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; legislation which prevents our buying at this time passenger-carrying vehicles. Some of these Indian reservations are as large as some of the New England States and it is necessary to have vehicles so the superintendent and other employees can get around over the reservations. The Chairman. Is there any objection to it? If not, it is agreed to. The next is line 17, page 12: EMIGRATION OF INDIANS INTO TEXAS. _ That so much of section four of the act of May eleventh, eighteen hundred and eighty (Twenty-first Statutes at Large, page one hundred and thirty-two), as pro- hibits granting permission in writing or otherwise to any Indian or Indians on any Indian reservadon to go into the State of Texas, under any pretext whatever, be, and the same is hereby, repealed. Mr. Meritt. That is simply an old and obsolete law now on the statute book which prohibited Oklahoma Indians from going into the State of Texas. Senator Owen. I should like the liberty to go in. Mr. Meritt. We thought that an absurd law, and, in view of the fact that we now have a commissioner from the State of Texas, that the law ought to be repealed. Senator Page. In order to take care of Senator Owen, I am inclined to repeal it. The Chairman. That, then, is agreed to. Line 23, page 12: Iin)IAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 45 RELIEF OF HEIRS OF FAEMEE JOHN. For payment to the heirs of Farmer John, an Indian, for land purchased by the tjovernment for a boathouse site on Pelican Lake, Minnesota, $20. Senator Page. I move it be agreed to. The Chairman. In the absence of objection it is agreed to. The next is page 13, line 1, as follows: BUILDINGS, ETC., IN COLORADO FOE EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. That the lands, buildings, fixtures, and all property rights granted to the State of Colorado for educational purposes by section five of the act of Congress approved April fourth, nineteen hundred and ten (Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page two hundred and seventy-three), may, in lieu of the use designated in said grant, be utilized by said State for the care of the insane, as an agricultural experhnent station, or for such other public purposes as may be authorized by the legislature of the State: Promdeil. That Indians shall always be admitted to such institutions free of charge ■and upon an equality with white persons. Senator Page. Is this designed to be a gift to the State of Colo- rado? Mr. Meeitt. Congress has abeady passed an act giving this institution for educational purposes. Now, we want to use it for an insane asylum. Senator Curtis. They claim they have as many educational insti- tutions as they require and this would be an unnecessary expense, and therefore they want it for the other purpose. The Chairman. Is there any objection to this item % Senator Page-. Probably it is all right, but please let us know how much it is and what it amounts to. Mr. Meritt. The title to this property now is in the State of Colorado. They have the right under the law to use it only for educational purposes. The State has, I understand, four or five educational mstitutions and this property has not heretofore been used for educational purposes. It is now idle and they would like to have this law changed so they might use the property for an insane asylum. Senator Curtis. They have only one insane asylum, which is greatly overcrowded. They have five other instiutions which are not overcrowded, and only one insane asylum. Senator Page. Do you think. Senator Curtis, that is a proper gift from the Federal Government to the State of Colorado ? You know there was agreat objection on the part of some to give it for educa- tional purposes; you make one further remove when you say it shall be given for insane purposes. Senator Curtis. Congress has already given it to the State and would have to take it back, and there was a good deal of trouble about carrying on- a school there, as Mr. Meritt will tell you, and it was so expensive to the Government, and it was thought best to give it to the State of Cororado. The State of Colorado accepted it and I think as they have already accepted it that it is well enough to let them use it for any purpose if they wiU still keep the institution open for Indians. The Chairman. Those in favor of this legislation say "aye"; those opposed "no." (Noes: Senator La FoUette.) 46 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. The Chairman. The noes have it. . , • . u * it. Senator La Follette. I will say if that hospital is to be tor tjK Indians I will vote for it. Senator Curtis. They open it to the Indians. j • • Senator La Follette. It is not exclusively so, and it is givinj title to the State of Colorado to property for other purposes thai educational purposes, and I do not believe it is a good precedent. Senator Curtis. The Government has one insane asylum for Indi ans; it is doubtful if two are needed, and the State would not keej up an insane asylum for the Indians. (The item was rejected.) (The next item was as follows:) ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO. Sec. 2. For support and civilization of Indians in Arizona and New Mexico, includ ing pay of employees, $330,000. The Chairman. The House allowed the estimate. Is there anj objection ? Senator Page. I move we approve. The Chairman.' Motion is made by the Senator from Vermont tc agree to the .House resolution. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chairman. The next item is as follows: FORT MOJAVE, ARIZ., INDIAN PUPILS. For support and education of two hundred Indian pupils at the Indian school a1 Fort Mojave, Arizona, and for pay of superintendent, $35,100; for general repairs and improvements, $3,800; for construction of a steel tank and tower, $4,000; in all, $42,900. Senator Gronna. I move that be approved. There is no change there. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that ? If not, it is agreed to. The next item is line 20, page 13, as follows: PHOENIX, ARIZ., INDIAN PUPILS. For support and education of seven hundred Indian pupils at the Indian school at Phoenix, Arizona, and for pay of superintendent, $119,400; for general repairs and improvements, $12,500; in all, $131,900. Senator Page. You need it, do you ? The Chairman. Yes; that is passing the appropriation. Senator Page. I move we approve it. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chairman. The next is line 24, page 13, as follows: TRUXTON CANTON, ARIZ., INDIAN PUPILS. For support and education of one hundred pupils at the Indian school at Truxton Canyon, Arizona, and for pay of superintendent, $18,200; for general repairs and im- provements, $3,000; in all, $21,200. Mr. Meritt. The justification is on pages 140 to 152 of the House hearings. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 47 Senator Page. Your department, or our chairman here, I do not know which, provided us last year with a little slip showing where each of these appropriations found their justification in the hearings. I wish we might have that now. The Chairman. That can be done if you wish. We can index the House hearings. We will have that done for you. Senator. Mr. Mbeitt. There is an index to the hearings this year. The Chairman. Then that is why it has not been done. There is an index to the House hearings. Is there any objection to that item on page 14, lines 1 and 2 ? Senator Gronna. There is no change ? The Chairman. There is no change. Senator Page. I move that it be approved. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chairman. The next item is line 3, page 14: IRRIGATION WORK, PIMA INDIANS. For continuing the work of constructing the irrigation system for the irrigation of the lands of the Pima Indians in the vicinity of Sacaton, on the Gila River Indian Reservation, within the limit of cost fixed by the act of March third, nineteen hundred and five, $10,000; and for maintenance and operation of the pumping plants and canal systems, $10,000; in all, $20,000, reimbursable as provided in section two of the act of August twenty-fourth, nineteen hundred and twelve (Twenty-seventh Statutes at Large, page five hundred and twenty-two), and to remain available until expended. Senator Curtis. I should like to ask the commissioner if he remem- bers three years ago we had a hearing on this. This was the agent, I think, who was m charge who made a very poor showing; said, I believe, that only one of those wells was a success. What about the change; did you change the policy? Mr. Meritt. The superintendent at that time has since been dis- missed from the service, and we have a Mr. Thackery who is now superintendent of that reservation. The Pima Indians have made a wonderful advance during the last three years. The Indians at first objected to the use of the weU water, claiming that it alkalied the land, and preferred the water from the Gila River, but developments have shown that when this weU water is supplemented by the water from the Gila River that they can grow very fine crops on that reservation. Senator Curtis. You can not, however, supplement it at aU seasons of the year, can you? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Curtis. There are some seasons of the year that the Gila River is dry? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we can supplement it during flood seasons. Senator Curtis. What do you do with it; impound it? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Indians are making splendid use of this system. Senator Page. We have spent, Senator Curtis, nearly a quarter ol a million dollars in constructing that system. Senator Curtis. That is what I was trying to find out, what you did with that quarter million dollars. The showing, as I said, and as I think the Senator will remember, three years was not good; it looked like the money was being wasted; that is why I wanted to 48 INDIAN APPEOPBIATJOir BH-L. know if they had changed the policy; whether any better results were coming from the expenditure of the money. , j- 1 , Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; the Indians are making very splendid use ot the water on the reservation. In fact, I know of no Indians m the country who are making better use of the irrigation system provided for them than the Pima Indians. Senator Curtis. Then it was not so that water from three or four of the wells was alkahne and only one of the wells a successful one? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; there are 9 or 10 wells on that reservation at this time and they are all being used. In fact, we should like to have this appropriation increased from $10,000 to $20,000 in accord- ance with our estimates so that we can provide additional wells on that reservation to irrigate additional lands. Senator Page. You estimate for $10,000? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; that is an error. We asked for $20,000 and they allowed us $10,000. Senator Page. Then it is an error in the print here? Mr. Meritt. It is an error in the print. We will be satisfied if the committee will allow us $15,000, reducing our estimates $5,000 and increasing the House allowance $5 000. Senator Curtis. They give you $20,000. They say, "For main- tenance and operation of the pumping plants and canal systems, $10 000; in all, $20,000, reimbursabie." Mr. Meritt. Yes, we estimated for $20,000 for continuing the work of construction of irrigation systems and $10 000 for mainte- nance. They allowed us a total of $20,000; the total of our estimates was $30,000. Senator Curtis. You had an unexpended balance, did you not? Mr. Meritt. We have a small unexpended balance of only $8,000. This is a reimbursable appropriation, and the Indians have ample property to secure the Government. Senator Page. Do you want to subdivide this amendment so it wiU read $10,000 and $10,000, or $10,000 and $15,000? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we should like to have the amount in line 7, page 14, increased to $15,000. We estimated for $20,000, but the House allowed us only $10,000. We wiU be satisfied with $15,000 for that item, and that, necessarily, would increase the total amount in line 9 to $25,000. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that ? Do any Senators wish to discuss it ? If not, it is agreed to. Line 13, of page 14: COLORADO RIVER INDIAN RESERVATION. For th'e construction and repair of neceasaTy channels and laterals for the utilization of water in connection with the pumping plant for irrigation purposes on the Coloradc River Indian Reservation, Arizona, as provided in the act of April fourth, nineteen hundred and ten (Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page two hundred and seventy- three), for the purpose of securing an appropriation of water for the irrigation of approx- imately one hundred and fifty thousanj acres of land and for maintaining and operating the pumping plant, 115,000, reimbursable as provided in said act, and to remain available until expended. That appropriation has been made ever since I have been in Congress. Senator Page. We have agreed with certain Indians here that we would hear them. Now that Senator Owen is present, had we not better take up that matter? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 49 The Chairman. This chair is always at the pleasure of the com- mittee, whatever any Senator wishes. Senator La Follette. I have been waiting ever since I came in with regard to a matter, the resolution which I reported out, as to which I have been waiting for the presence of a quorum here. The Chairman. Shall we suspend on the bUl now? Senator Owen. I move that we suspend consideration of the bill. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? There is no objection. We will suspend on the appropriation bill and will resume on the appropriation bUl to-morrow morning at 10.30 o'clock at page 14, line 24. Is there any objection to that? Senator Page. Line 13, on page 14? The Chairman. Yes. (Thereupon, at 11 o'clock a. m., further consideration of the ap- propriation bill was postponed until Thursday, February 17, 1916, at 10 o'clock a. m.) 31362—16 4 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. THTJUSDAY, FEBBTJAKY 17, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committe met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Lane, Owen, Johnson, Clapp, La FoUette, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. The Chairman. The next item was as follows: water rights, salt river INDIAN ALLOTMENTS. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to provide for water rights in perpetuity for the irrigation of six hundred and thirty-one Salt River Indian allotments of ten acres each, to be designated by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, water from works constructed under the provision of the reclamation act, and acts amendatory thereof or supplemental thereto: Provided, That the reclamation fund shall be reimbursed therefor upon terms the same as those provided in said act or'acts for reimbursement by entrymen on lands irrigated by said works, and there is hereby appropriated $20,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to pay the initial installment of the charges when made for said water. (The item was agreed to.) The Chairman. The next item was as foUows: GANADO IRRIGATION PROJECT, NAVAJO [iNDIAN RESERVATION, ARIZ. For maintenance and operation of the Ganado irrigation project on the Navajo Indian Reservation, in Arizona, $3,000, to be reimbursable and remain available until expended. The Chairman. This states the sum as "$3,000." I was wonder- ing whether that was a typographical error. Mr. Meritt. We asked for an appropriation of $23,000 for this project, $3,000 for maintenance and $20,000 for irrigation of ap- proximately 600 acres of additional land. We would like very much to have the estimate made by the department. The justification is to be found on page 181 of the House hearings. This Ganado project has been m operation for some time, and they want to add 600 acres of additional land to the project, and it would take about $20,000 to do this work. Senator Page. The House declined to aUow you the addition, did they? Mr. Meeitt. They simply allowed us for maintenance and opera- tion. 51 52 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. The Chairman. What was your estimate ? Mr. Meeitt (reading) : For extension of the Ganado irrigation project on the Navajo Indian Rea'?rvation, in Arizona, for the irrigation of approximately 600 acres of land in addition to the area to be irrigated by said project, as authorized in siction 2 of the act of August 24, 1912, $20,000; and for maintenance and operation of the project, $3,000; m all, $23,000, to remain available until expended. This appropriation is reimbursable, and the Government is simply advancing the' money to irrigate this land. Senator Page. As I understand it, this is for the purpose of taking in more land. Now, the question is, Ought we to enter upon any now irrigation project at this time ? Th.e House thinks not. Mr. Meritt. I will say that this matter has been very carefully looked into and investigated by our irrigation-service employees. Senator Page. What was the objection urged by the House? Mr. Meritt. No objection was urged. They simply omitted the appropriation and continued maintenance of the present project. The Navajo Indians have ample resources to reimburse the Govern-^ ment. They have 11,000,000 acres of land. There are 30,000 Navajo Indians. Senator Curtis. I think if there is any tribe of Indians in the country that deserves help it is the Navajos, because they have always been self-supporting. We have given them a wonderful acre- age and have spent a large amount of money for grazing, and it will be useless unless we give them water. For years we have dug little wells and supplied water for their sheep, which would naturSly fill up, because the sheep could go down into the wells. I move that we allow the $23,000 mstead of $20,000. (The motion was agreed to.) The Chairman. The language proposed by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs is adopted. The next item was on page 16, line 12, as follows: BRIDGE ACROSS LITTLE COLORADO RIVER, WINSLOW, ARIZ. For the construction of a bridge across the little Colorado River, at or near the town of Wins'ow, Arizona, $15,000, to be expanded under the direction of the Secre- tary of the Interior, and to be reimbTirsable from any funds now or hereafter placed in the Treasury to the credit of said Indians: Provided, That no pirt of the money herein appropriated shall be expanded until the Secretary of the Interior shall have obtained from the prnpsr authorities of the State of Arizona, or the county of Navajo, satisfactory guaranties of the piyment by the said State of Arizona, or by the county of Navajo, of at least one-half of the cost of said bridge, and that the propar authori- ties of the said State of Arizona, or the said county of Navajo, shall assume full respon- sibility for, and will at all times maintain and repiir, said bridge and the approaches thereto: And provided further. That any and all expenses above the amount herein named in connection with the building and maintaining of said bridge shall be borne either by the said State of Arizona or the said county of Navajo. The Chairman. This bridge is a very necessary structure. That river assumes great proportions at times — in fact the proportions of a flood. Senator Page. I move that we approve the item. Arizona agrees to maintain it and pay half the expenses. Senator Curtis. We have the same thing in Kansas. Have you any right under the law to maintain that bridge ? INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 53 The Chairman. Under the law of Arizona; yes, sir. (The item was agreed to.) The next item is as follows : STEEL SPANS ON BRIDGE ACROSS GILA RIVER, SAN CARLOS INDIAN RESERVATION. For the construction of three additional steel spans with abutment and piers to extend the bridge across the Gila River on the San Carlos Indian Reservation near San Carlos, Arizona, S17,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be immediately available, reimbursable to the United States by the Indians having tribal rights on said reservation and to remain a charge and lien upon the lands and funds belonging to said Indians until paid. Senator Page. This is reimbursable, the House allows it, and I move that we approve it. Senator Curtis. With regard to the reimbursable feature I will say that those Indians are very poor, and I think if we are going to build a bridge, it ought to be built out of the money of the Govern- ment. If those Indians had plenty of money I would say make it reimbursable, but they are very, very poor. The Chairman. Senator Curtis is correct. They have no money out of which it could be made reimbursable. Senator Curtis. What is the use of making it reimbursable unless you are going to get the money back ? I move to strike out aU after the word "available" in line 10. (The motion was agreed to.) , Senator Lane. Did the Indians build it? Was it built out of Indian funds before ? The Chairman. It was built out of an appropriation made from Indian funds, but they have no funds, and we are trying to repeal the reimbursable feature. Senator Lane. But before, how was it built ? The Chairman. It was built out of funds that were supposed to be reimbursable. Mr. Meritt. The appropriation was reimbursable, and we are asking that the reimbursable feature be repealed. Senator Curtis. The report shows that these people have S12,434 to their credit in the Treasury. Senator Lane. Is there no way of getting it % Senator Curtis. I do not know how you are going to get more for them. The Chairman. I will state that in last year's bill the reimbursable feature was stricken out but the bill failed. Mr. Meritt. We would be very glad to have this item if the reim- bursable frature is taken out. The Chairman. It is agreed to at $17,000. The next item was as follows : CALIFORNIA. For support and civilization of Indians in California, including pay of employees, $42,000. . Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the California Indians have received very little benefit from the Federal Government. We would like very much to have our full estimate on this item. 54 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. Senator liANE. What are you going to do with the money ? How are you going to support them and civiHze them ? Is it usual to give them the rations, or is it mostly for salaries and wages ? Mr. Mekitt. No, sir; we are merely purchasing land tor the Indians in the neighborhood where they are now li'^ipS- Senator Lane. How much of this will be expended for land? Mr. Meeitt. Not very much of this appropriation. The next ap- propriation will be used for the purchase of land. Senator Lane. I am talking about the first item. Mr. Meritt. This appropriation is used for general administrative expenses and also for support and maintenance. Senator Curtis. I feel, Mr. Chairman, as if there ought to be a statement made about the California Indian situation. I remember when Senator Flint came to the Senate; he got the committee to start out on the plan of helping these Indians, and asked for 160,000, He said that was all they would need, and after we considered a while we authorized $100,000. That was 140,000 more than they asked for. That was with the understanding that that would help them' out and stUJ, I think, they have been here every year since asking for from $10,000 to $40,000 to buy additional property. I really think the commissioner ought to make a report to the committee about how many more there are of those Indians for whom we have got to make homes, and let us know about when this appropriation wiQ end. Of course they know the number of Indians, and it was stated at that time that the $100,000 was all they would need to buy those homes for homeless Indians in Cali- fornia. In fact, the original proposition was only for $60,000 and we made it $100,000, so that they would not come back the next year. Senator Page. There is another point that always strikes me as it does my good friend across the table [Senator Lane,] and that is, when you make an appropriation of $40,000 you wiU find that about $18,000 is for salaries and wages, which does not leave very much to go to the Indians. Mr. Meritt. There are between 15,000 and 20,000 Indians in Cali- fornia. Those Indians have been gradually driven from the lands which they were occupjring and to which they had no title, back into the mountains. They are now in California, and there are between 3,500 and 4,000 Indians without land. It is necessary that we have funds so that we can purchase lands for those Indians. The lands in California have been increasing in value by leaps and bounds, and the appropriations by Congress have been in small amounts, and it has cost a great deal more to buy lands for them in that way than if an ample appropriation had been made. If we could get the appropria- tion in the next item, $40,000, instead of $10,000, as allowed by the House — we asked for $40,000 and the House allowed us $10,000— it would go a long way toward providing land for the landless Indians in California. It would probably require one more appropriation after this appropriation to finish up that work. Senator Lane. Where would you buy the land? In what part of the State ? Mr. Meritt. We would buy the land where the Indians are now Hving. We do not intend to buy any reservation for them, but small tracts near the neighborhood where the Indians are now living. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 55 Senator Lane. They are scattered all over the State, are they not? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. They would not get much land for that amount of money. Senator Curtis. They get a value of $11 an acre for the lands. The report states 11.04; number of Indians provided for, 726. Mr. Meritt. Of course this is not irrigable land, but it is land on which they can make a living. Senator Page. It is for support and civihzation. The question has been asked very many times with us, "How does it happen that out of an appropriation of $40,000 or $42,000 you pay out more than half of it in salaries and expenses?" Mr. Meritt. Out of the appropriation of $42,000 the record shows we pay for salaries, wages, etc., $18,000. Senator Page. And for traveling expenses, $2,528, making about $21,000 in round numbers. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that is for caring for the agency employees and administrative expenses. Senator Page. But aU that goes to the Indians for subsistence is $4,300. Senator Lane. Well, that subsistence is not all for the Indians; that is for the employees, is it not ? Mr. Meritt. None of the subsistence goes to the employees. It goes to the Indians. Senator Page. Do you want them to consider together the $42,000 and $10,000? You asked for $90,000 and they gave you $52,000? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. They are separate appropriations and we would Uke to have the estimates of the department in both cases because of the miserable condition of the Cahfornia Indians. We are constantly having their condition called to our attention in the Indian Office and also in the department. Senator Page. Miserable; why? Mr. Meritt. Because they have no land. Senator Page. We want to take now first the $42,000 appropria- tion. Now they are miserable because they have no land. Are they miserable because they have no clothing or food or seed ? Mr. Meritt. Those Indians are eking out an existence by squatting on the land aroxmd some of the smaller towns in northern California. As soon as the owner of that land wants to sell it the Indians have to move to another location. The women work around in the homes of the white people and the men perform such labor as they can get to do. Senator Page. They are really poor, are they? Mr. Meritt. Very poor. Senator Page. Then why should you not pay more than one-tenth of the appropriation to help them? Mr. Meritt. Because this appropriation is used for administrative expenses on the reservations^he first appropriation. The second appropriation is used for the purchase of land. There are two appropriations, and it is necessary that these agencies be maintained in order to look after the interest of the Indians on those reserva- tions. The second appro j)riation is for the purchase of land for landless Indians in California. 56 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. But is does not take a great deal of expense to purchase lands ? v , ,i Senator Lane. Hold on about that. It costs, according to the statement made before the House committee, $4,000 to purchase between $15,000 and $20,000 worth of land. The foUowmg occurs on page 187: Mr. Norton. What would you estimate would be Ms expenses to the Government during the last year? Mr. MBRrrr. Probably $4,000. , . » „ „„„, Mr. Norton. How much land has he bought for this f 10,000 1" Mr. Meritt. He has bought, probably, between $15,000 and $20,000 worth of land since he has been there. It appears in one place that he spent $10,000 in buying $15,000 worth of land and in another place $4,000; that is a pretty heavy expense. /-, -j. • Mr. Meritt. We have to employ a man in California to get options on these small tracts of land. That employee gets a salary of $2,000 and his expenses, which amounts to considerable during the year. But if we could get $40,000 in a lump sum the overhead charge would not be any more and we would have enough money to buy land for practically all the homeless Indians in California, with the possible exception of one further appropriation. Senator Lane. You spent $4,000 last year apparently for the pur- chase of between $15,000 and $20,000 worth of land. Senator Page. I still want to insist, Mr. Commissioner, that if those Indians are poor and needy and destitute, more than one- tenth of the appropriation ought to go to their benefit and less than one-half for expenses. Senator Curtis. Let me ask the commissioner a question which I think will clear up Senator Page's trouble. As I understand, the first appropriation of $42,000 is to take care of your agencies. You have 11, have you not? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Now, as I understand, the money you are asking to be appropriated is for the homeless Indians, the Indians not under that agency, but who have settled upon lands that have been taken away from them or which they thought were taken away from them ? Mr. Meritt. They were simply occupying the lands. The owners have crowded them off. Senator Curtis. They are not on the agency, but in different parts of the State ; is that correct ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. I may say that the first appropriation would not be available for the purchase of land. It requires specific authority of Congress for that purpose. Senator Page. I am trying to sever these two appropriations. Senator Curtis. That is what should be done. Senator Page. I do not see why you should connect them, because the support of Indians and the purchase of land are so absolutely separalsle that I do not see why you should connect them. You have two appropriations. Why do you connect the two ? Mr. Meritt. We are not connecting the two. You asked me whf not use more of the first appropriation to relieve the condition of the Indians with that appropriation, and my answer is that the first appropriation is used for the support of 11 agencies in California INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 57 and the second appropriation is for the purchase of land. The first appropriation is not available under the law for the purchase of land to relieve the condition of the Indians. We are trying to take care of that in the second appropriation. Senator Page. I understand that you have 11 agencies in Cali- fornia. See if I get it correctly Mr. Meritt. Schools and agencies; I think that is the correct number. Senator Page. Well, 11 agencies. That seems to be necessary for the expenditure of this $42,000, or is it for some other purpose? Why should you need, with 11 agencies, to spend $42,000 and $4,000 for subsistence ? Mr. Meritt. The 11 agencies take care of the property of the Indians. Those agencijes are for the purpose of looking after prob- ably 13,000 Indians in Cahfornia. We are trying to get a second appropriation to provide land for the remaining 3,500 or 4,000 Indians who have no land and who are not under the supervision of any superintendent. Senator Page. Why do you refer to the second appropriation when we are talking about the first ? Mr. Meritt. Because you referred to the condition of the Indians in California, and those who are not taken care of. We can not take care of those Indians by purchasing land unless we have a specific appropriation for that purpose, as the first appropriation is not available. Senator Lane. Let me read from page 186: Mr. Norton, Mr. Meritt, in your estimates for 1917, you estimate an increase of $2,000, approximately, for salaries and wages, and an increase of SI, 000 for traveling expenses, making an eslimated increase of salaries and wages and traveling expenses of $3,000, and you submit for those poor wandering Indians and estimated expendi- tures of $4,000 for subsistence and supplies? That is at the bottom of page 186. This bill ought really to be entitled not the Indian appropriation bill but the "white man's ap- propriation biU." It is a misnomer. Senator Clapp. Do you think. Senator, that we ought to cut out these agencies ? Senator Lane. A great many of them, I do. I think it would be a good thing to do. Senator Clapp. If that is so, that is a different proposition, but while we are maintaining these agencies the department has got to have funds to maintain them with. Senator Lane. I feel like filing a substitute for this, to cut them off. But calling attention to this item here, there is an expenditure of $4,000 for the purchase of ten or fifteen thousand dollars' worth of property. You do not want to do that ? Senator Clapp. I do not think you could get a capable man for less than $2,500. It is not the amount he buys; he has got to go and hunt up land. He has got to go and get as much land as he can. Now, the fact that he does not get a large amount in one year does not lessen the fact at all that you have got to pay him a reasonable salary and his expenses. Senator Lane. But it is costing too much to purchase the land. The overhead charges are too great. That is the point. 58 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Clapp. Do you think they could get a capable man for less than $2,500 ? , , Senator Lane. I thmk they could get all the men they wanted on a 10 per cent commission. Senator Page. I think I have not made myself clear. It you will look over the California expenditures, you will see that they cover $129,000 for certain schools. Now I do not understand that those agencies have anything to do with those schools. Senator Clapp. Not at all. Senator Page. Then there is an expenditure of $10,000 for the irrigation of the Yuma allotments. I do not think they have any- thing to do with that. Senator Clapp. No. Senator Page. The next is for a school at Fort Bidwell. They have nothing to do with that. The next is the education of pupib at the GreenviUe Indian School, $21 ,630. Now why should we expend such a large proportion of all the appropriations made for California for salaries and wages and traveling expenses ? Senator Clapp. They are maintaining in California, I think, about 11 agencies. Now whether it is wise to maintain those agencies may be a question by itself. The department seems to think it is, and until we take some action to lessen them, the judgment of the department should govern in that respect. Senator Page. I confess that the judgment of the department should be potential to a certain degree, but of the entire expenditure in the whole State of $40,000, more than half goes to salaries, wages, and traveliaag expenses. It seems to me that the overhead charges are too high for the amount that is expended for the general benefit of the Indians. Senator Clapp. It is just like any business. You have got to have, in order to maintain your business, certain overhead charges. Now, whether it is wise to maintain the business where the overhead charges bear a large proportion to the cost of the business itself, is another question. Senator Page. I desire to say that if any man is conducting any business in the aggregate of $40,000 and his overhead charges are $20,000, that he is a very poor business man. Senator Clapp. That would be true as a business proposition. Senator Page. You were referring to it in a business way. Senator Clapp. No ; I say as a business proposition, that as long as you do conduct these Indians' affairs you have got to have certain overhead charges. I think we generally regard the Indian proposi- tion as a strictly business proposition. We have a certain number of Indians in California. They are under the jurisdiction of 11 agen- cies, and I do not believe that with 1 1 agencies the amount required for agency purposes is excessive. It may be excessive for the few Indians that we have in charge out there. Senator La Follette. How many are there '^ Senator Cuetis. About 18,000. Senator Clapp. Under 11 agencies. Senator Page. All we expend for the benefit of those 18,000 Indians aside from schools, that are specially provided, is $20,000. Senator Clapp. Senator Page, we undoubtedly have a great many agencies in this country where the money expended for the Indians, IKDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 59 subject to that agency, is a bagatelle as compared with the cost of the agency. Senator Page. It is less than the agency itself ? Senator Clapp. But we have got to have agencies and we have got to have men there to guide and direct and supervise and see that things are looked after. Now, the fact that we usually appropriate a vast sum for these Indians does not lessen the necessity in itself for the agency. Senator Page. Let me understand you. You think that it is essential in this work that for the expenditure of $4,343 for sub- sistence supplies, that we have an expenditure for salary, wages, and traveling expenses of $21,000? Senator Clapp. I think it would be advisable to maintain agencies where the conditions were such that we did not at the same time appropriate any money directly for the Indians themselves in the administration of their affairs. Now,' whether we should maintain 11 agencies in California or not, I am not prepared to say. That is a matter that we have heretofore left to the department. Senator Lane. Would you go further and say that it would be all right to maintain agencies where the Indians received practically no benefit, and where many of them are hungry and often die from the results of starvation ? Senator Clapp. That is not the question at all. The question is whether we should maintain agencies under any condition where we do not at the same time appropriate money directly for the Indians. It is easy to see that there would be. many conditions of that kind. Senator Gronna. Will the committee pardon me for asking that a delegation of Indians from my State be heard for 10 or 15 minutes, I have to retire from the committee to attend a meetirg of the Com- mittee on Agriculture, or a subcommittee to take action upon the resolution to ascertain whether there is or not a combination by which the price of twine has advanced. Senator Lane. Just one moment. I want to say that there are present some Blackfeet Indians, good men and true, whose people are going hungry and who have been for years getting barely enough to eat and hundreds of whom have died from lack of enough nourish- ment to enable them to fight off disease. The chief of the tribe there will certify to what I state now. I want to call your attention to a Mttle Indian boy who I beheve to have tuberculosis at Chemawa. He has been there eight years. He is now 14 years old. He came to learn gardening, and I suppose he has been at work on the farm. He has an enlargement of a gland in the groin which I think is tuber- cular. I do not remember his name.. I think it is Edward Lilvigren. He is a Uttle Indian Illerit; his father is a white man. He has a home to go to. He tells me his father maintains a home and his sister does the housework. Now, that boy ought to go home. Mr. Meritt. As I told you a few days ago. Senator, we will be very glad to send him home. FORT BERTHOLD INDIAN RESERVATION DISTRIBUTION OF FUNDS TO COMPETENT AND INCOMPETENT INDIANS. Senator Gkonna. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I want to introduce four Indians from the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation. They belong to the Arikara, Gros Ventre, and Mandan (50 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. tribes. I do not know whether all of these gentlemen belong to the Mar dans, but anyway they are from the same reservation. These Indians come here to ask for legislation that will enable thena to take care of their own money and the Bureau of Indian Affairs has been very kii" d to them and' has drawn up an amer dment which I shall introduce in the Senate to-day and have it referred to this committee. But I want this committee to see these men and judge for themselves whether or not the committee believes they are competent to properly handle their own affairs. There are present Mr. Smith, Huber, and Mr. Baker, and Mr. Bushong. Gentlemen, you can tell us very briefly what you are here for, and why you ask this legislation, and at the same time tell us something about the condition of the schools on the reservation, and what changes you would like to have in that respect. STATEMENT OF CHAEIES HUBER. Senator Geonna. Mr. Huber, will you please tell the committee in your own way whether you want this money to go directly to the competent Indians? Senator Page. First tell us how much money you have and how many Indians there are. Mr. Huber. Gentlemen of the committee, we have ceded a portion of our reservation for settlement some years ago — some five or six years ago — and that was to be put under the homestead laws of North Dakota. Since then, people have settled upon it, and of course they pay so much a year. Up to date I think we have something like 1700,000 in the Treasury, together with interest. The issuance of subsistence to the Indians of Fort Berthold Reservation ceased in 1901, I think — that is, some 15 or 16 years ago — and ever since that time we have been looking out for our ownselves — that is, we have been self-supporting. From that point we think we are competent too handle our own affairs — that is, our money — and we thought that we could get legislation passed to get the money in the Treasury to our credit. Another thing, the Government of the United States is maintaining large schools for the Indiand on the reservation and the Indians at- tend those schools in order to get education, and when they do get there and learn the ways of the white men, and get education and go back to the reservation, they are under the same rules and regulations as the ignorant Indians. If the Government is going to maintain those schools why should these educated young Indians come under the same laws and regulations as the ignorant Indians? Those schools are maintained at tremendous expense to the Government to fit the Indians and to educate them. They might just as well be like the white men. That is the way I would like it. Senator Page. How many are there of your particular tribe that has this $700,000 to their credit ? Mr. Huber. There are three tribes of something like 1,150 Indians now hving. Senator Page. In your judgment would it be detrimental to the interests of these Indians if your tribal relation and your relations with the Government would cease, and that you should have your money all paid over to you ? INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. 61 ?^^'.?^?^^- '^" certain individuals, that is what I call the com- petent Indians. Senator Geonna. They do not ask, Senator Page, to have the money turned over to all the Indians but ask that it be turned over to those whom the department believes are competent to handle their own funds. Senator La Follette. How many of these Indians are educated ^ Mr. HuBEE. That I could not very well tell you offhand. Senator La Follette. How many do you regard as competent, that is approximately ? Mr. HuBER. Between 100 and 200, something like that. Senator La Follette. What is the tendency when Indians go back to the tribe after having been to the school and live with the Indians who are not educated on the reservation; what is the ten- dency, for them to go back to the condition in which they lived before they attended school ? Mr. Huber. No, sir; the tendency is that they get education after they have attended schools and come back to the reservation and try to get ahead and make progress, but under the rules and regulations they can not very well do it. Senator Curtis. As I understand you, what you want is authority given to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to consider apphcations from different members who are competent to have a certificate of competency issued, and then have the money turned over to those Indians who are found competent. Is that what you want ? Mr. Htjber. That would be a pretty good way to do it. Senator Curtis. In other words, if you have an Indian there who is competent, what you want is that he have the right to file an application to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and if the Com- missioner finds that he is competent then to handle his property, that his money be turned over to him. Mr. Huber. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Without affecting the land in any way? Mr. Huber. Yes, sir. Senator Clapp. Of what degree of Indian blood are you ? Mr. Huber. Half. Senator Curtis. The Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs informs me that he has legislation that covers that point. Senator Gronna. That is true. They haye been to the depart- ment and the department has agreed to give them the relief that they are asking for. Senator Curtis. That practice has been followed on other reserva- tions, and I do not see why it has not been followed on this reservation. Senator Owen. Why should it not be foUowed on all reservations where you find them competent ? Mr. Meritt. I think it should be. Senator Curtis. Have you any authority of law to do that ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the legislation which authorizes the sale of this surplus land directed that the proceeds should be deposited in the Treasury at 3 per cent and remain there until further legislation of Congress. There are now between $700,000 and $800,000 in the Treasury drawing 3 per cent interest. We beUeve that the competent Indians should have their pro rata share of this fund and that the other g2 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. Indians should have their pro rata share deposited in local banks to their credit, drawing interest, and to be used for their benefit. I have been in conference with this delegation of Indians from Fort Berthold Reservation, and we have drafted an item of legislation, which, if the committee desires, I wOl read. It is a proposed amend- ment to the Indian appropriation bill and reads as follows: That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treas- ury of the United States, from time to time in his discretion, all moneys derived from the sale and disposition of surplus lands within the limits of the former Fort Berthold Indian Eeservation, North Dakota, arising under the provisions of the act approved June first, nineteen hundred and ten (Thirty-sixth Statutes at Large, page four hun- dred and fifty-five), and the act approved Augiist third, nineteen hundred and four- teen (Thirty-eighth Statutes at Large, page six hundred and eighty-one), together with the accrued interest thereon, and distribute the same per capita to the Indians entitled thereto in the following manner, to wit: To competent Indians in cash share and share alike, and to incompetent Indians by depositing equal shares to their individual credit in banks bonded and designated as depositories for individual Indian moneys, subject to expenditure for the benefit of the Indians entitled, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, and hereafter annual distributions shall similarly be made of funds accruing under the provisions of the acts herein referred to and all acts amendatory thereto. The last provision was incorporated in the item authorizing the sale of the undisposed-of land. - Senator Owen. Why did you make the item so narrow ? Why did you not adopt a broad policy with regard to deahng with competent Indians anywhere? Mr. Meeitt. We have drafted this legislation and we tried to get legislation last year so as to be able to pay to all Indians their pro rata share of the funds which were deposited to their credit and are now in the Treasury — about $40,000,000 to the credit of Indian tribes. Under the act of 1907 we can pay to competent Indians their share and also to the old and decrepit Indians, but to the able-bodied incom- petent Indians we have no authority of law under the act of 1907 to pay them their funds. We are asking for that legislation and we have asked Congress for a number of years for this legislation. Senator Owen. What has been the objection to it? Mr. Meeitt. Simply that Congress did not enact the legislation. Points of order were made against it on the Indian appropriation bill. It is one of the most desirable pieces of legislation we ever asked of Congress. For three years I have tried to impress upon the Indian committees of Congress the importance of this legislation. Senator Cuktis. As I understand it, you have authority under the act of 1907 to do this very thing, except to a certain class and except to the Indians where the treaty or the agreement provided that the money should be deposited in the Treasury ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Cuetis. You have that authority now. Now, what is the class that the law does not cover ? Mr. Meritt. We have special legislation applying to the Five Civilized Tribes. We have legislation applying to the Osage Indians, and special legislation applying to the Chippewa Indians in Minne- sota. We have also had special legislation applying to the Sioux Indians, and in frequent cases we have on the statute books legisla- tion similar to this where the money is deposited in the Treasury, and can not be used until authorized by Congress. INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILI,. 63 Senator Owen. Has anj^body made any special objection to the competency of the Indian in receiving his portion ? Mr. Meritt. Nobody has made any special objection, but they have made points of order, because it is special legislation. There is an item in our estimates for this year, but it was not included in the House bill, because it was special legislation. I intended to call it to the attention of this committee before I get through. In the meantime we would like to have this item incorporated in the bill so as to cover this particular reservation, so that we can pay out to the competent Indians on that reservation their money, m order that we can handle the funds belonging to the incompetent Indians for their benefit. Senator Page. What safeguard is thrown around the moneys of the incompetent Indians? Mr. Meritt. If this legislation is passed we will deposit the money of incompetent Indians m local banks and require that those banks furnish surety bonds, and the money can not be withdrawn except on the approval of the superintendent. Senator Gronna. I think that is a very good provision. I think it is just and right. Senator Owen. Those funds are individual funds, are they not, or are they communal funds ? Mr. Meritt. They will be individual if this provision is passed. It is now considered tribal funds in the Treasury. Senator Gronna. I thought it was only fair to this delegation, and also to the committee before I ask it to pass on a matter of this itind, to see that they are really competent to handle their own affairs. These gentlemen were all born in the State of North Dakota, and they have lived there all their lives. There are three other members who would be glad to talk on this matter, but I do not see why I should take any further time of the committee. Senator Curtis. Let me call the attention of the committee to this act. I think it is broad enough to make payment as it is. It reads as follows (reading) : That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized, in his discretion, from time to time, to designate any individual Indian belonging to any tribe or tribes whom he may deem to be ca^pable of managing his or her affairs, and he may cause to be appor- tioned and allotted to any such Indian his or her pro rata share of any tribal or trust funds on deposit in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the tribe or tribes of which said Indian is a member, and the amount so apportioned and allotted shall be placed to the credit of such Indian upon the books of the Treastuy, and the same shall thereupon be subject to the order of such Indian: Provided, That no apportionment or allctnent shall be made to any Indian until such Indian has first made an applica- tion therefor: Provided further, That the Secretaries of the Interior and of the Treasury are hereby directed to withhold from such apportionment and allotment a sufficient sum of the said Indian funds as may be necessary or required to pay any existing claims against said Indians that may be pending for settlement by judicial determina- tion in the Court of Claims or in the executive departments of the Government, at time of such apportionment and allotment. That is the law now. Senator Clapp. Would that meet cases where the law specifically provides that the fund shall be retaiaed a number of years? Senator Curtis. I think so; yes. Mr. Meritt. I suggest that the Senator read the second section. 64 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Cuetis. The second section is as follows (reading) : That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to pay any Indian who is blind, crippled, decrepit or helpless from old age, disease, or accident, his or her share, or any portion thereof, of the tribal trust funds in the United States Treasury belonging to the tribe of which such Indian is a member, and of any other money which may hereafter be placed in the Treasury for the credit of such tribe and sus- ceptible of division among its members, under such rules, regulations, and conditiong as he may prescribe. I think I remember now why the point made by the assistant commissioner was carried out for one class of Indians. We had a case where there was a drunken Indian upon the reservation and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs issued a certificate of competency to that drunken Indian and paid him all his money. The result was that he left his family helpless and without any funds, and when the provision afterwards came up asking that they have authority to pay money to that class of Indians, I objected to it because I think that the last thing on earth that should be done is to pay out money to an Indian who was known to be an habitual drunkard and who we know would spend it aU, and know that when that money was spent it would rob the famUy of all of its money. Senator Owen. Of course, he was incompetent to all intents and purposes ? Senator Cuetis. He was incompetent; yes. If we had used that money through the office it would have been a different thing. I knew of a case of that kind on the Potawatomie Reservation in Kansas, and I protested at the time. Senator Page. Do you think that an ordinary agent in charge is the proper man to whom may be left the power to withdraw all funds in a bank of any Indians where it is deposited there ? Senator CxjETis. In many cases, yes. In some cases, no. We have one reservation where there are 20 deeds of competency or certificates of competency issued and deeds issued where those parties did not hold their land a week, and the commissioner afterwards, upon my request, used what little money was left to buy some land and put it in the hands of minors, the youngest children, so they would keep it and have to keep it, in order that the mothers and the children would have homes. These cases that I am calling your attention to I know of, because they have come under my own observation, and I called the commissioner's attention to them. Of course this was a great many years ago. Senator Page. My own observation is that you have a good many agencies, and they have pretty cheap men at the head of them,^ and it would seem to nae that improper influence might be brought to bear upon those agencies to withdraw money that was deposited with a bank that ought not to be withdrawn. Senator Owen. Could not some counter check be arranged for that? Senator Cuetis. I have for years tried to get the Indian Office to adopt this plan, to divide the Indians into four classes — the compe- tent, such as these gentlemen here who have been educated and are competent, give them their money and turn them loose and let them shift for themselves; and the second class, the partially competent Indians who could be trusted as far as possible in a good many direc- tions in handling their money, to make leases only for a limited period; the third class, the incornpetent, who should be controlled entirely by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs; and the fourth class, the INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 65 infants, whose money should always be protected by the Comnais- sioner of Indian Affairs. I think that if the department would adopt that plan, we would soon have a lot of Indians taking care of themselves and have them in prettjjr good shape. But you can not advance those Indians if you check tnem and hold them back under some rules and regulations, as you do the full-blood Indians. The only way you can solve the Indian problem is to educate the Indian. Senator Owen. If you treat him in that way it makes him a tribal Indian and he does not feel that he has any independent manhood; that he is simply a ward and is classified that way, and he feels it. I think we could check the matter of the incompetency of the agents who would do improper things by some specif proviso that would require some one else than himself to acquiesce in it. Senator Curtis. The difficulty with that is you do not discover until after the harm has been done. Senator Owen. Yes, but a broad poUcy which would require some concert of action of people in authority would put a check on that. Senator Clapp. I think Senator Curtis's view is about the only practicable one. You have to make your classification and take some chance, of course, upon it. You have got to do that. The complaint is constantly made now that the overhead charges of the department are out of proportion and to add to the personal equation the supervision could not be very effective because you have to depend largely on the future of a man whom you trust with his property, and I think you have got to adopt some broad course. Senator Owen. There will always be some error by human beings, and there wiU always be some wrongdoing, I suppose, but I think that could measurably be avoided by requiring the accounting officer to agree to it. Senator Page. Referring to the overhead charges that Senator Clapp speaks of I would like to ask how many officials are connected with the Indian department ? Mr. Meritt. Between 5,000 and 6,000, About one-third of those are Indians. We have about 3,000 employees in connection with agencies and about that same number in connection with schools. Senator Page. Does that cover every one who draws money from the Federal Treasuiy or the Indian fund ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Between 5,000 and 6,000. I would like to use this reservation as an example to answer this argument about rations being issued to the Indians. We have on this Fort Berthold Reservation 1,153 Indians. The agency expense of that reservation is about $30,000. The rations issued to Indians will probably not amout to over $5,000. In our judgment the fewer rations that are issued to the Indians the better off those Indians are The object of the Indian Bureau is to develop the Indian to the point where he wUl not receive rations. The employees on that reservation are not busy issuing rations to Indians. They are busy taking care of the property of the Indians and trying to educate those Indians and develop them so that they wiU be above the point of necessity of receiving rations. We have an example of the work of the Indian Bureau right here with these Indians. I would like the committee to ask these Indians with respect to the conditions on that reservation. ai.qfi2 — ^16 5 66 INDIAN APPEOPBTATION BILL. There is a great deal of misinforniation handed out about Indians and about the conditions on Indian reservations. I wiU admit that the conditions are not ideal, but the employees of the Indian Bureau and the Indian Service, are, as a rule, devoted to their work and they are as a rule honest. You take 6,000 employees and you will find among that number, in any branch of the service, men and women who do not come up to the standard, but it is my candid opinion that you will not find 6,000 employees in any other branch of the Government service who have to work imder such unfavorable conditions, and who are devoting more energy and zeal and honest effort to their work than are these 6,000 employees of the Indian Service. We are not trying to rob the Indians or get these appropriations for the benefit of the white employees. I would like very much to see the time when every Indian m this country is absolutely self-sup- porting, and not requiring the attention of any white employee. I am in favor of every dollar of the funds of the Indians in the Treasury of the United States being withdrawn and every dollar that a com- petent Indian can handle I am in favor of that Indian having that money. Every Indian who is competent to receive a fee patent should receive a fee patent. The Secretary of the Interior now has a commission in the field going from one reservation to another, and he is making a careful investigation as to the competency of the Indians, and is issuing patents in fee to those competent Indians. We have found already by experience that the Indian who appears to be com- petent when he receives the patent in fee can easily be deprived of his property. -Congress has passed legislation removing the restrictions on Indian property. To-day those Indians who have had their restrictions removed are, 90 per cent of them, without land. The removing of restrictions and issuing patents in fee is a serious problem. Senator Cuktis. Then why do you not issue a patent for home- stead which wiU insure a home for the Indians, the competent Indian to hold a homestead, and give him a fee-simple patent for his surplus and let him sell that and compel him to have a home by prohibiting the sale of the homestead? Mr. Meeitt. We do that now in a number of cases. We do not issue a patent in fee covering his entire allotment. We issue a patent in fee covering part of his allotment, permitting him to sell the surplus land and improve his homestead, and later if he shows that he is competent we wiU issue a patent in fee covering his entire land. Senator Owen. I think the plan that the Oklahoma Legislature adopted was a very good one with regard to Indian homesteads, It may be considered too drastic. They made it a felony to cloud an Indian homestead, which I think was unnecessarily harsh, because it is sufficient to make it a serious misdemeanor. Then anyone would of course relinquish any cloud that might be put on it. Senator Curtis. I do not know, from the way they have of getting powers of attorney down there with the deeds in the body of them. Senator Owen. They have made it a felony. To make it unlaw- ful and have a penalty of imprisonment would I think be sufiicient. Senator Cdetis. There were 28 powers of attorney that had the conveyance in the middle of the instrument. Senator Owen. Of course you will find in a great many cases fraudulent dealings. INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 67 Senator Lane. I think that Mr. Huber has called attention to some matters that are of importance in the affairs of the Indians. The Indian Bureau sends a lot of young fellows and girls to school. Then when they are through with their term at such schools they are sent home without a doUar, without a package of garden seed, without a hoe or a plow or a bale of barbed wire to fence in their property, or means with which to build a house on their allotments which need irrigation, perhaps. They go back to live in a one-room shack with their people and sleep on the floor of that shack, not with blankets, not with quilts, not with pillows, but such old rags and pickings as they may find or get from their friends, in an air loaded with tuberculosis, with parents and friends and relatives visiting there who are afflicted with that disease and also with trachoma. We know from experience what becomes of them. They must of necessity be ground down into a condition where if they are competent it never can be shown. And as to the girls, they go home after having been associated with women who are educated, and after they have acquired a taste for a pretty dress and neatness, and go back mto that kind of surrounding. It would rot the best people in the world, and 90 per cent of the other people of the United States would also fail, if you please. The Indian has done quite as well as anyone else could under like circumstances. The Blackf eet, as I am informed, are nearly 75 per cent tubercular, and 90 per cent have trachoma. Take the Klamaths, for instance. The whites will offer them $40,000 per capita for their tribal hold- ings — and the baby that was born yesterday and the old man who dies to-morrow is worth that much in his right in their timberlands, and in addition to their tribal holdings they have allotments off of which they can not sell a stick of timber to build themselves a home or buy food, and some of them, the old, crippled, and bhnd, are in distress and go hungry. The Blackfeet, who had several hundred thousand doUars a short while ago were going hungry. There is needed a larger view with regard to their affairs and needs. The condition has been handed down to you for years, pretty nearly sixty, to my personal knowledge, and unless different methods are adopted there will be nothing gained for the Indians from our sitting around here arguing the items in this bill. Senator Owen. Would it not be a good plan for the commissioner to draw a proposed amendment to the bill to cover this point? Could you not do that, Mr. Commissioner, and submit it to the committee within a few days ? Mr. Meritt. We have drafted legislation which will enable us, if we can get that legislation, enacted, to take care of the tribal funds. We have legislation on the statute books now that will enable us to issue patents in fee to competent Indians, and we are working under that legislation; and so far as the Chippewa Indians are concerned, we have legislation in this bill which will permit of their receiving one-fourth of the money deposited to their credit. There is legis- lation on the statute books which prohibits us from distributing the five or six milUon dollars belonging to the Chippewa Indians until 50 years after the enactment of that law. We are asking for legislation covering that particular point. 68 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Owen. I think an amendment of the act which we passed before would cover the points which seem to be the concensus of opinion here would be advisable. There is another feature about this •that ought to be kept in mind. Where these funds are communal funds, and individual funds, the communal part of course ought to cease; he ought to cease to be entitled to any further participation in the communal property. Of course, you could individuahze all the funds, and thereafter you have to deal with the State; where a person dies you would have to deal with his heirs; when he dies as a member of the community he dies outright, and the children are born into the communal right, but when that communal holding ceases, it becomes an individualized matter, and then you can deal with the heirships of the persons who die, and children who are born are not born into any right at all except where they happen to be heirs of some decedent. I think that should be kept clearly in view in framing this legis- lation. Senator Clapp. Do you think an Indian should forfeit his right to a growing accumulating fund in order to get the use of his personal share ? Senator Owen. I do not; I am only speaking of what is a necessary discrimination to be drawn, where you individualize a holding, and where a man ceases to be a member of the communal fund, or have an interest in the communal fund. Senator La Follette. Suppose there is real estate belonging to the tribe undisposed of, the disposition of which would create an additional communal fund; would he not of right have a share in that? Senator Owen. He would undoubtedly, but if he wants his dis- tributive part of the whole, I should think there might be some adjust- ment made by capitalization which would release the communal mnd of any claim from him. Mr. Meritt. The legislation which covers this tribal fund propo- sition is here, and I would hke to read it to the committee and ask that it be incorporated in the bUl at this time. Senator Curtis. The Indian appropriation bill haa been laid aside. I suggest that you take this matter up when we resume the consid- eration of that biU. The Chairman. Yes ; there are some people here who desire to be heard. Mr. Meritt, do you desire to have it put in now ? Mr. Meritt. I thought that whUe you were discussing this propo- sitioii and know the need of the legislation, it would be a proper time to suggest it. It will only take two minutes. The item is as follows — and I will say that it is included in our estimates and was included in the Indian bill as it passed last session. The Chairman. What page is it ? Mr. Meritt. Page 13, after line 11. It is as follows: distribution of tribal funds. That section two of ths act approved March second, ninteeen hundred and seven (Thirty-fourth Statutes at Large, page twelve hundred and twenty-one), entitled "Aa act providing for the allotment and distribution of Indian tribal funds," be, and the same is hereby, amended so as to read as follows; "That the pro rata share of any Indian who is mentally or physically incapable of managing his or her own affairs may be withdrawn from the Treasury in the discre- tion of the Secretary of the Interior and expended for the benefit of such Indiaa nder such rules, regulations, and conditions as the said Secretary may prescribe." INDIAK APPBOPBIATION BILL. 69 Senator Clapp. Why, did you not make that coyer what is now a matter of doubt in the department ? Say for instance, the Chippewa case. Do you feel that you have got to have a special biU? Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir. Senator Clapp. My impression is a bill could be so framed, refer- ring in terms to the existing law, to take the place of without naming each one of them, and that would cover all these cases and make it plain that the power was lodged in the commissioner or Secretary to make a distribution where they were competent. Mr. Meritt. That would so complicate the legislation that we could not get it through. If we were to apply this to aU Indian reservations, we would know immediately that there would be a fight made on that legislation. If we excluded the reservations where they have specific legislation, such as the Five Tribes, the Osage Indians, and the Chippewas, then we can get this legislation through. But if we attempt to get legislation through Congress prorating all the tribal funds of the Five Civilized Tribes, we know that that would bring on a fight immediately. Senator Clapp. I know you have not been able, although you have pressed for it for years, but it struck me that that would reach the condition now, and that the committee would favor general legislation of that kind. Mr. Meritt. If we can get this legislation, it will be very helpful to us, indeed, and then we can handle the other three propositions with separate legislation. Senator Clapp. I do not want to embarrass you by pressing the other matter. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee with regard to this item ? Senator La Follette. As I understand that item, it applies to noncompetent Indians only. Mr. Meritt. That is to cure the defect in the act of 1907. Under the act now we have authority to pay out to the competent Indians and also to the Indians who are old and decrepit, but the act is so worded that we can not pay to the able-bodied incompetent Indians, and this amendment is to amend section 2 in order to pay to all the competent as weU as the able-bodied incompetent Indians. Senator La Follette. I am not sure that that is the defect. Senator Owen. It is from his point of view. Senator Curtis. I suggest that we take that up at the next meeting. The Chairman. It is suggested that we take this matter up at the next hearing. ■ j.- T_-n Senator Curtis. That is when we take up the appropriation bill again. I am not fully satisfied with the item. Unless the Treasury Department has construed the other acts to the contrary, it is broad enough to cover everything or every one who ought to be taken care of except in special cases where the competent Indian, by reason of agreement, is prohibited, or rather the department is prohibited by this agreement, from giving to the competent Indians money derived from the sale under this agreement, unless the Treasury Department has held otherwise. 70 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. The Chairman. It has been moved that this be laid aside for the present until we resume the consideration of the Indian appropria- tion bill. (The motion was agreed to.) Senator Owen. I understood there were some persons who de- sired to be heard. Senator Cuetis. There were some gentlemen here Senator Gronna introduced. Do any more of you gentlemen desire to be heard. (After a pause) : They are through. I suppose the next thing is the resolution of Senator La Follette. I do not know whether they want to be heard on that or not. (Thereupon, the committee adjourned to meet at 10 o'clock a.m. to-morrow, Friday, February 18, 1916.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. FRIDAY, FEBBTTARY 18, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment Senator HenryF. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. ' Present : Senator Ashurst (chairman) . The Chairman. The committee will come to order. CALIFORNIA INDIANS. The Chairman. Page 17, hue 15, for support and civiUzation of Indians in California, mcluding pay of employees, $42,000. Is there any objection to agreeing to that item ? Senator Page. I agree to $42,000. The Chairman. Do you want $42,000 or $45,000 ? Mr. Meritt. As to that item, which comes under California, we will try to get along with $42,000. The Chairman. The next item, line 17, for the purchase of lands for the homeless Indians in California, including improvements thereon, for the use and occupancy of said Indians. Must you have the full $40,000 ? Mr. Meritt. It is very important that we have the amount esti- mated for in this instance. Senator Page. Why didn't you convince the House of that fact ? Mr. Meritt. I thought we had convinced the House committee until the committee made its report. There is certainly a very strong {'ustification for our estimates. The hearings show that there are letween 3,500 and 4,500 Indians in California without any land at all, and they need the attention of our Federal Government. Senator Page. Do the California Senators and Members ask for it? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; they are all very anxious that we secure this appropriation. They appeared before the committee last year, and the hearings show that they made a very urgent appeal for funds. Senator Page. I had the impression that those Indians were scat- tered around the way white people are, more than anything else, and that they were living very much as ordinary poor white people would. Why do they need more help, scattered as they are, and situated as they are ? Mr. Meritt. These Indians are scattered in the State of Cali- fornia, mostly in the northern part. In view of the fact they have 71 72 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. not before received any aid, it is only fair to these Indians that they be provided with land. Senator Page. Brother Lane, you live near California, where these Indians are? Senator Lane. Yes. Senator Page. They want $42,000. Senator Lane. For lands ? Senator Page. Yes, for the purchase of lands. Seaator Lane. They won't get very much land for $42,000 — not much land of value. Mr. Meeitt. There are between 3,500 and 4,500 Indians in Cali- fornia without lands. If we have this appropriation, and one other similar appropriation, we will be able to provide them with small allotments. Senator Curtis. Are not some people trying to work up a senti- ment out there along this line ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; we have a new man purchasing land in Cali- fornia for the California Indians — a Mr. Terrell, at a salary of $2,000 and 'expenses. He is not a citizen of the State of California, and he is not working up anjr sentiment for this purpose at all. I don't know of anybody who is trying to work up any sentiment along this line. Senator Owen. It took $40,000 last year to buy about $15,000 worth of land. Mr. Meeitt. The smaller the appropriation for the purchase of land, the greater the proportionate overhead charges. We can buy $40,000 worth of land almost as cheaply as we can buy $10,000 worth of land. Senator Page. There are Indians scattered throughout California? Mr. Meeitt. The testimony is to the effect that there are between 3,600 and 4,500 Indians scattered over California who have no lands. Senator Page. Is it not a fact, as the testimony, I think, shows, that they are like other citizens, working here and there and getting a living just as poor white men do ? Is it really due to them that we should enter upon a plan to buy them all farms and give them to them ? Senator Owen. I think these California Indians have been treated rather cruelly by the conditions with which they have been sur- rounded. They do not know anything about titles, and their prop- erty has been taken right out from under them, due to that fact. Senator Page. They came in there under the conquest of Mexico. Senator Owen. Well, the conquest of Mexico did not deprive these Indians of the right to live upon those lands, a right which they have possessed from time immemorial. I think we ought to deal quite generously with these California Indians. Senator Cuetis. I feel the same way as to the overhead proposition. I do not think the Indians ought to be treated badly. I hope they have not been. The only thing in regard to this is that we were told in the beginning that with $60,000 they could buy all the land they needed. "We have been through this before," they told us, "and we can buy all the land we need for $60,000." At my suggestion we gave them $100,000. I thought they wouldn't be able to get along with $60,000, so I recommended $100,000. They said that would be all they would need; but they came back the next year and asked INDIAN APPROPBIATIO ISr BILL. 73 for more, and they have been coming back every year ever since and asking for from $10,000 to $40,000. There ought to be an end to it somewhere, some time. Senator Lane. It is true, as Senator Owen says, that these Indians are ignorant of what constitutes their title, and they have been robbed of their lands out there. White men have taken possession and driven the Indians from the lands, leaving them homeless; and I think the Government ought to take care of them. They ought to be provided with a home, and they ought to be treated fairly. So far, I believe, they have not been a source of any expense to the Govern- ment. Is that right, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. When they were driven from these places and forced to go off their lands they were unable to provide homes for themselves. They are able, by working at odd jobs, to provide themselves with a scant living, but not with homes. Senator Owen. I thiak the rights which the Indians have to lands should iaalienable. They are inalienable rights. I think these Indians out there shoidd be treated just as we have treated the full- blooded Indians of the tribes in Oklahoma. I thiak the rights which are accorded these Indians ought to be kept perpetual. Senator Page. How far are we assimilating those Indians ? Are they becoming citizens ? Senator Owen. I think they are pretty well assimilated. Senator Page. Why are they not taken care of just as the poor are taken care of everywhere ? There are some in the State of Vermont, and they do not thiak of coming down here and asking Congress to appropriate money to buy them homes. I thiak California ought to take care of these Indians. Senator Owen. The Indians have been regarded as a national care always. That policy has been so far entered upon by the United States that the States have recognized it as an established policy. Senator Lane. I think probably we ought to know. Senator Page, before going further if in the event these lands are bought and par- celed out in small tracts as homes for the Indians whether or not this item wiU form a basis or be a pretext for subsequently coming to Congress and asking for appropriations for a lot of agents and supervisors to be placed on the pay roU. Senator Page. Yes; that is important. How about that, Mr. Meritt ? . Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; there wiU be no agents. This land wiU be bought and given to these Indians, who wiU hold title to the land. There will be no agents to look after them at all. There will be nothing of that kind to fear. Senator Owen. I thiak they ought to be allowed to live their own Hves. In my opiaion we have spoiled a good many Indians by puttiag them under agents. We have been taking all the iadepend- ence out of them by supervising them too much. We have been supervising them to death. Mr. Meeitt. These Indians wUl be located on lands near where they are now living. Senator Curtis. Would $20,000 help you out now, with $20,000 or $30,000 next year? 74 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. The Chairman. The committee approved $30,000 last year. That was put in the bill, but the bill failed. Senator Owen. It did not go through ? The Chairman. No. Mr. Mebitt. We will try to get along with $30,000. Senator Husting. Will you require supervisors ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. AU we wiU require in the way of assistance will be men to purchase these lands. Then they will be turned over to the Indians, and the Indians will hold title to the lands. Senator Lane. Won't it require a supervisor or a subagent or somebody around there to sort of look after these Indians and their lands who is going to cost the Government some money ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. It is not intended at all to place these' Indians imder the supervision of a subagent or agent or a super- visor. They will take care of themselves. Senator Page. In what way wiU these lands be apportioned to the Indians? Mr. Meritt. The special agent goes to the different localities in CaUfomia where the small bands are located, and he gets options on lands in the immediate neighborhood where the Indians are living. Then he submits that option to the department, and it is approved. After that we get title to the land. We then submit that title to the Department of Justice for its consideration before paying out the money for the lands. Senator Husting. Senator Page, how will these lands be appor- tioned ? Senator Page. That is the question I asked. How do you appor- tion these lands to the Indians after you have bought them ? Is it tribal or is it individual ? Mr. Meritt. We buy tracts of land, and if there are 15 Indians iu that Httle community we will permit those Indians to live on this tract of land and will not apportion it to the individual Indians. Senator Curtis. I think that is a mistake. Senator Page. Yes. It renders the matter subject to dispute. I think there ought to be some regulation on that. One Indian, who might be stouter than another, might insist upon having the better location, or the better piece of land, and would go out and drive the weaker brother o£F. Mr. Meritt. We depend upon the Indians being fair with one another. We simply give them the land upon which to live and, if necessary, to regulate the matter, the land being under the jurisdic- tion of the Federal Government, that can be done. Senator Page. I would be inclined to say $20,000. I think that is enough. The Chairman. Oh, agree to $30,000. Senator Page. All right. The Chairman. In the absence of objection, $30,000 is agreed ti. Is there any objection to making it $30,000 ? (The item was agreed to at $30,000.) SHERMAN institute. The Chairman. Line 22, for support and education of 700 Indian pupils at the Sherman Institute, Riverside, Cal., including pay of supermtendent; estimated, $132,000; allowed by the House, $129,500. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 75 Mr Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount given by the House, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the sum of $129,500? Without objection, it will be agreed to at that amount. TUMA ALLOTMENTS. Page 18, line 1, for reclamation and maintenance charge on Yuma allotments, $10,000. Last year we appropriated $40,000. Mr. Meritt. The item, as allowed by the House, is what we esti- mated. We are satisfied with that amount. The Chairman. That amount is $10,000? Senator Page. I move that it be agreed to. The item was agreed to. FORT BIDWELL INDIAN SCHOOL. The Chairman. Line 7, for support and education of 100 Indian pupils at the Fort Bidwell Indian school, California, including pay of superintendent, $18,200; for general repairs and improvement $3,600; in all, $21,800. Senator Curtis. That school cost $318 per capita, and I believe that any school costing over $250 per capita ought to be abolished. Senator Page. What school is that? Mr. Meritt. Fort Bidwell. Senator Curtis. It is simply a question of whether the committee wants to adopt a policy of providing schools at enormous cost, when the children could be provided for elsewhere in day schools at much less expense. Senator Page. It is $35,000 for 125 Indians. Mr. Meritt. Those two schools are located in northern California. They are quite a distance from the railroad, and the enrollment is small. These are very small nonreservation schools. The per capita cost is necessarily high because of their location and the small number of Indians attending. We have recently changed the superintendents at both of these schools, in order to improve conditions there. We hope next year to report a very material reduction in the cost per capita in the running of these schools. Senator Page. From what section are these 125 Indians drawn? Mr. Meritt. These are drawn from the Indians of northern California. Senator Page. Senator Curtis, I have never yet voted for a diminution of appropriation for schools, because it seemed to me that that is the only way in which we can really help the Indians — to educate the children to take care of themselves and become useful citizens. Senator Curtis. I agree with you, Senator Page. But the question is, can we afford to spend that much money when a day school would probably answer the same purpose and give them the same edtication as a nonreservation school does ? Senator Page. But, can they reach the day school ? Senator Curtis. Could not the Government establish a d&y school ? Mr. Meritt. These children are from the scattered bands of Indians in northern California. It is necessary that we have the 76 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. boarding school, because tbey live in different communities and it would be impracticable to furnish them with a day school. Senator Owen. Why does it cost more there than it costs else- where ? Mr. MfeRiTT. Because the schools are quite a distance from the railroads and the enrollment is small, and the overhead charge of the small school is almost as great as for larger schools. Senator Curtis. There are about 700 at Fort Bidwell, are there ? Mr. Mebitt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Don't they have a public school there? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; but these Indians do not live in the im- mediate vicinity. We get them from the scattered bands of Indians located in northern California. Senator Curtis. Yes. Senator Husting. What tribes are they; do you remember? Mr. Meritt. I do not think they have any tribal name. We know them as the scattered bands of northern California Indians. Senator Page. You say many of these Indian children do not hve there at Fort Bidwell, or in that vicinity. They are brought there from different parts of the northern part of California and educated at these schools. Could not you educate those in the community there at these schools and then take the remainder of the scattered boys and girls to some other school and educate them there as you do here? Mr. Meritt. Our nonreservation schools are all filled to their capacity. The Indians of the country are utilizing the Indian schools to a greater degree than ever before. We have now between 8,000 and 10,000 Indian school children without school facilities. Of this number, there are 5,000 in the Navajo coimtry. We can not give up any of our nonreservation schools without making a further deficit in the capacity of the schools. Senator Page. You say there are only how many children in the country that have not any school facilities ? Mr. Meritt. Between 8,000 and 10,000. Senator Page. You say there are 5,000 in the Navajo country? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. How do you take care of them ? Mr. Meritt. We are asking for $100,000 in the Indian bill each year to increase the school capacity in the Navajo country. Senator Owen. How may are there in the Navajo country? Mr. Meritt. About 5,000 without school facilities. Senator Owen. How many others are there ? Mr. Meritt. Three thousand or more. Senator Owen. The Navajos have no school facilities. As a matter of fact, in spite of that they have been more successful than any other tribe in getting along in the world. Mr. Meritt. The Navajos are very fine Indians, and they are making their own hving, principally by sheep raising. Senator Owen. Yes. Mr. Meritt. They have a very large reservation, more than 10,000,000 acres of land, and the Government has stocked their reservation with sheep. They have been very successful. Senator Owen. There are about 800 school children on the Black- feet Keservation ? INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 77 Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Owen. It was so reported last year by your inspector. Mr. Meeitt. Not that number. Senator Owen. How many are there ? Mr. Meritt. Between three and four hundred. Senator Owen. It was a majority of them, at any rate. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. As expressing my views, I move that we allow the item as estimated by the department, $33,500 ? The Chairman. Is there any objection? Without objection, the amount $33,500 is agreed to. GREENVILLE SCHOOL, CAL. line 11, for support and education of 90 Indian pupUs at the Green- ville Indian School, Cal., including pay of superintendent, $16,530; for general repairs and improvements, $3,600; for purchase of addi- tional land for the school farm, $1,500; in all, $21,630. Senator Lane. I do not agree to any of these boarding-school items. I do not think they accomplish much. Senator Curtis. The amount of $33,500 would make it very much more expensive. The House allowed $21,800. Mr. Meeitt. We estimated $5,000 for repairs; the House allowed $3,600. We estimated for a new school building, $8,000; the House left that out. That reduced our estimates to $21,800. We would like to have our estimates for that school. The Chairman. That has been agreed to. Let us take up the next item, commencing on hne 11. Senator Page. That is the GreenviUe school? The Chairman. Yes. Senator Page. How about that, Mr. Meritt. Mr. Meeitt. We would hke to have our estimates on that school, because the same conditions apply there as apply to Fort Bidwell. Senator Page. I make the same motion, because it expresses my views on this school proposition. Senator Lane. I do not agree to any of these boarding schools. Senator Page. I make the motion that we agree to this item. The Chairman. Is there any objection to agreeing to this $33,500 ? Senator Page. I thought that had been agreed to. We are now talking about the Greenville school. The Chairman. Congressman Raker of Cahfomia, is here. Mr. Raker, we shall be very glad to hear from you. What have you to say? Mr. Raker. I agree to the motion just made. It covers matters in which I am specially interested. I am particularly interested in that Greenville Indian School. Senator Page. I think we have agreed on that. The Chairman. Yes; there was no objection. Do you want to discuss this item, Mr. Raker ? It was akeady agreed to. Mr. Raker. If it is already agreed to I do not think you could do more after anything I might say on the subject. Senator Lane. Couldn't we reconsider it, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. If Mr. Raker desires to say anything, doubtless we could. 78 INDIAN APPKOPEIAXION BILL. Senator Page. Will you give us an explanation ? We might reduce the amount. The Chairman. You better not say a word, Mr. Kaker. Mr. Raker. I think I wiU take the judgment of the Senate. The Chairman. Very well. RELIEF OF SEMINOLE INDIANS, FLORIDA. Line 17, for rehef of distress among the Seminole Indians in Florida, and for purposes of their civihzation and education, $8,000. Last year the House agreed to the item at $10,000. We had some testi- mony on that item. Mr. Meritt. The House has allowed us $8,000, although we esti- mated $10,000. We will be satisfied with the amount the House has allowed, provided we can have inserted after the word "education" the words ' 'including the purchase of such lands as the Secretary of the Interior may deem proper." The Chairman. For the benefit of the Indians ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Cltrtis. What is the purpose of that ? Mr. Meritt. There are some Seminole Indians living over on the east coast of Florida, who wiU not go with the other band of Indians west coast of Florida, and we would like to buy a small tract of land for these Indians on the east coast of Florida. We had set aside on the west coast quite a large tract of land, in the Everglades. Senator Curtis. Why don't you insert " For the purpose of pur- chasing land?" Last year you spent $3,019, all of which went for salaries and traveling expenses, and telegraphic expense, except $42 which went for hospital service. I do not know whether that was for the Indians or for your agents. These Indians have been able to take care of themselves for a hundred years or more, and now you want this money to buy homes for them. I wiU be perfectly willing to vote for that purpose, but if you want it for agents, I am against it, Mr. Meritt. We are asking for it to buy lands. Senator Curtis. It does not say so here. It says "For rehef of distress among the Seminole Indians." Senator Page. The Seminole item for 1915 was $5,000. You spent $42. Senator Lane. The Indians were lucky. Senator Page. The way the money was spent is as foUows: "Travehng expenses, $977; salaries, wages etc., $2,000; telegraphic expense, 27 cents; hospital expense, $42." Mr. Meritt. I ask that that item be amended, by inserting after the word "education" the words "including the purchase of such lands as the Secretary of the Interior may deem proper." We can not buy land, under the ruling of the comptroller, without the specific authority of Congress. Senator Page. I have been liberal with the last two items; so for once let us make a less appropriation than the House recommends and caU it $5,000. Mr. Meritt. That will be agreeable, Senator. The Chairman. The amendment, suggested . by Mr. Meritt, pro- viding for the purchase of lands for the benefit of the Indians, is agreed to if there is no objection. INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 79 ^enator Page. I have no objection to it. ^i. X fi, •^^*^^- ^^^y '^^^' i* is agreed to. And then it is agreed that the item shall be $5,000 « Senator Page. Yes. The Chairman. That item is agreed to. FORT HALL (iDAHO) RESERVALION. The next item is Idaho. Line 21, for support and civihzatioh of Indians on the Fort Hall Reservation, in Idaho, including pay of em- ployees, $30,000. The House agreed to the departmental estimate. Is there any objection to that item? Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. Senator Page. -That is $13,000 for salaries and wages and $17,000 for everything else ? Mr. Meritt. The primary purpose of this item is to care for the administration expense of this agency. Senator Ctums. It covers agency expenses ? Mr. Meritt. Very largely. Senator Page. I move we approve $30,000. The Chairman. The item is agreed to as $30,000. FORT HALL (iDAHO) IRRIGATION SYSTEM. The next item is at line 24 and is for improvement and maintenance • and operation of the Fort Hall irrigation system, $25,000, reimburs- able to the United States out of any funds of the Indians occupying the Fort HaU Reservation now or hereafter available. Mr. Meritt. That item is very important, for the reason that Con- gress has heretofore appropriated more than $800,000 for the con- struction of an irrigation project on this reservation, to irrigate ap- proximately 50,000 acres of land. This project is practicafly com- pleted. We haven't funds available to provide adequate laterals and ditches to the allotments of the Indians, and it is for the purpose of getting the water to the Indian allotments that we are asking for this appropriation. It is very important that we secure this appropria- tion this year, because, under the law we are required to make bene- ficial use of this water within a certain time, and unless we get money for the purpose of constructing these laterals and ditches the large amount heretofore expended will not be very beneficial to the Indians. Senator Page. There is a reimbursenaent clause in that ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Is there any question about the Indians being able to reimburse the Government ? Mr. Meritt. These Indians will be able to repay every dollar ad- vanced by the Government. There is no question about that. Senator Lane. These lands wiU be disposed of ? Mr. Meritt. Congress has not yet authorized the sale of these surplus lands, but they will undoubtedly be sold at real value. Senator Lane. At fuU market value ? Senator Curtis. Is all this land used for the Indians there ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Where do these white settlers get their water? 80 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. They get it from the same general irrigation project. Senator Curtis. That is under the Government system ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; but none of this money we are asking for now will be used to convey water to the lands of the white people. • Senator Cuetis. Why not, if jou put them under the same system from which the Indians get their supply ? Why don't they get the benefit of this the same as these Indians do ? Mr. Meeitt. Because these are constructed on laterals leading to the Indian allotments, where there are no white lands. Senator Page. You ask for this appropriation substantially upon the same grounds as you asked for an appropriation last year? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Now, those laterals last year cost $424.67, and the salaries and wages and traveling expenses of your officials amounted to $18,000 out of the $23,000 appropriated. The Chairman. Without objection that item is agreed to. Let us pass on to the next item. BANNOCK INDIANS. We will take up the item at line 3, for- fulfilling treaty stipulations with the Bannocks in Idaho, for pay of physician, teacher, carpenter, miller, engineer, farmer, and blacksmith (Article 10, Treaty of July 3, 1868), $5,000. Is there any objection to that item, commencing on Une 3, page 19? Senator Page. That is a treaty obligation. (The item was agreed to.) Mr. Meeitt. The next two items were treaty items. COEUE d'aLENE INDIANS. The Chaieman. For the Coeur d'Alenesin Idaho, for pay of black- smith, carpenter, and physician, and purchase of medicines (Article 11, agreement ratified March 3, 1891), $3,000. Mr. Meeitt. That is also a treaty obligation. Senator Page. Yes. The Chaieman. Without objection those two items are agreed to. HASKELL INDIAN SCHOOL. The next item is under "Kansas," line 12: For support and education of 750 Indian pupils at the Indian school, Haskell Institute, Lawrence, Kans., and for pay of superintendent $127,750; for general repairs and improvements, $12,500; in all, 1140,250. Mr. Meeitt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. The Chaieman. Without objection it is agreed to at the House figures. KICKAPOO INDIAN PUPILS. Line 17, for support and education of 80 Indian pupils at the In- dian school, Kickapoo Reservation, Kans., including pay of super- intendent, $14,860; for general repairs and improvement, $2,000; in all, $16,860. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 81 Mr. Mkritt. We are satisfied with that. The Chairman. It is agreed to. CHETTIMANCHI BAND OF INDIANS. • The next item was under Louisiana, line 22, for clearing the title to lands owned or possessed by the Chettitnanchi band of Indians of Louisiana, for purchase of such lands as may be required to place tii«m on a basis of self-support, and for such other relief as may be needed in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, $1,500, pro- vided that the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, retjuire- that the legal title to all property purchased, or the title to which is to be cleared, with the funds hereby appropriated, shall be in the name of the United States, for the use and benefit of the Indians. That was $1,500 last year, I think. Mr. Meritt. These Indians have got some of their lands they have been holding for a great many years in litigation, and a lady advanced money sufficient to save their lands for the present, and it is for the purpose of protecting the lands of these Indians that we are asking for this small appropriation of $1,500. The Chairman. Is there any objection to agreeing to the item as estimated for by the department and allowed by the House ? Without objection, the item is agreed to. MOUNT PLEASANT (MIOH.) INDIAN PUPILS. The next item is Michigan, page 20, line 8, for support and education of 350 Indian pupils of the Indian school. Mount Pleasant, Mich., and for pay of supermtendent, $60,450; for general repairs and improve- ments, $5,000; for dairy barn, $8,000; in all, $73,450. Mr. Meritt. The House only reduced our estimate $1,000. The Chairman. Can you stand for that ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that ? Senator Page. No. The Chairman. The item is agreed to at $73,450. Senator Lane. I fear these schools do the Indian as much injury in the long run as they do them good. I think we are beginning at the wrong end. I think we ought to make larger appropriations in improving their general condition, in the way of farming, stock rais- ing, and Sieir little homes; so that when they get out of school they can go back home with some hope. They get a fair education now, I assume, but when through with their schooling, they are dropped into a bog of misery and turned loose to work their way out as best they can. I think that is wrong. I believe it to be a fact that many of these students who return from school are tubercular, and carry the disease back to their people at home. The thing is "topsey turvey." It is proceeding on a wrong plan. I am not going to vote on that. The Chairman. Is the item agreed to ? Senator Lane. No. The Chairman. Do you want a vote on it ? 81362—16 6 82 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. Senator Lane. No. I merely wanted to state my position. The Chairman. The record will show that. Senator Lane. Very well. PIPESTONE (mINN.) INDIAN SCHOOL. The Chairman. The next item is under Minnesota, page 20, line 14, for support and education of 225 Indian pupils at the Indian School, Pipestone, Minn., including pay of superintendent, $39,175; for general repairs and improvements and for remodeling building for dormitory purposes, $7,000; for mechanical and general utility shop building, $10,000; for septic tanks, $5,000; in all, $61,675. Senator Clapp. In regard to Minnesota, there is a delegation on its way here, in reference to these matters, and we are going to have a discussion on the matter with the delegation and the commissioner. The Chairman. Do you want to pass Minnesota? Senator Clapp. Yes; until they get through. The Chairman. Very well. FORT BELKNAP AGENCY, MONT. The next item was on page 25, line 9, for support and civilization of the Indians at Fort Belknap Agency, Mont., mcluding pay of em- ployees, $20,000. Mr. Meeitt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. . The Chairman. Without obiection$20,000 is agreed to. FLATHEAD AGENCY, MONT., SUPPORT AND CIVILIZATION. The next item was ' ' For support and civilization of Indians at Flat- head Agency, Mont., including pay of employees, $14,000." The Chairman. Can you get along with the amount allowed by the House ? , , Mr. Meritt. We will try. The Chairman. With no objection, $14,000 is agreed to. FORT PECK AGENCY, MONT. The next item was "For support and civiHzation of Indians at Fort Peck" Agency, Montana, including pay of employees, $30,000." The Chairman. The House agreed to the estimate of the depart- ment, $30,000. (The item was agreed to.) FORT hall irrigation SYSTEM. The Chairman. We will recur to page 18, hue 24, "For improve- ment and maintenance and operation of the Fort Hall irrigation system, $25,000, reimbursable to the United States out of any funds of the Indians occupying the Fort Hall Reservation now or hereafter available." { Senator Page. Will you explain that matter, Mr. Meritt ? INDIAN APPSOPBIATION BILL. 83 Mr. Mbeitt. This appropriation will be used in constructing laterals. Naturally a large part of the appropriation will be expended for labor. It is the purpose of the appropriation to procure labor to construct these laterals. It is not intended that any of this money shall go to the Indians as a gratuity. It is solely for the purpose of constructing, the laterals, and it will require most of that money to pay the salaries of laborers and employees. Senator Page. Do salaries of employees go into this item here? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. That will be agreed to without objection at $25^000. Senator Page. Now, these Uttle items on the next page at lines 3 and 7, $5,000 and $3,500, you approved, did you not ? The Chairman. Yes. Everything is approved down to Minnesota. Senator Page. The next item is what? . The Chairman. Montana. The first, second, and third items have been approved. We are now down to line 16. Senator Page. What page ? The Chairman. Page 25.. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we agree to what the House has allowed. BLACKPEET agency, MONT. The Chairman. Without objection, it is agreed to at $25,000. That item is for support and civilization of Indians at Blackfeet Agency, including pay of employees. Senator Page. Yes. The Chairman. Agreed to at $25,000. Senator Page. Was the item at line 14, for support and civiliza- tion of Indians at Fort Peck Agency, including pay of employees, $30,000, approved ? The Chairman. Yes. Senator Page. At what figure ? The Chairman. At $30,000. Senator Page. And the Blackfeet item at $25,000 ? The Chairman. That was agreed to — $25,000. Senator Lane. I shall not agree to that until I get some further information on it. ,. , • i The Chairman. Very well; that will go over for further consid- eration. Senator Page. The Blackfeet item can go over. The Chairman. AH right. FORT BELEl^AP IRRIGATION SYSTEM. The next item was line 18, "For maintenance and operation, including repairs, of the irrigation systems on the Fort Belknap Reservation, in Montana, $20,000, reimbursable m accordance with the provisions of the act of April 4, 1910." Mr. Meritt. The House allowed $20,000; our estunate was $25,000. We will try to get along with the amount allowed by the House. The Chairman. Without objection, it will be agreed to at $20,000. 84 INDIAN APPEOPEIAtriON BILL. CROW INDIANS, MONTANA. The next item was line 1, page 26 — For fulfilling treaties with Crows, Montana; for pay of physician, fl,200; and for pay of carpenter, miller, engineer, farmer, aUd blacksmith (article ten, treaty of May seventh, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), f3,600; for pay of second blacksmith (article eight) same treaty), $1,200; in all, $6,000. Senator Page. I move we approve the item for $6,00Q. (The item was agreed to.) NORTHERN CHEYENNES AND ARAPAHOE^. The Chairman. Can you get along with $80,000 for the next item which is — For subsistence and civilization of the Northern Cheyenbes and Arapahoes (agree- ment with the Sioux Indians, approved February twenty-eighth, eighteen hundred and seventy-seven), including Northern Cheyennes removed from Pine Ridge Agehcy to Tongue River, Montana, and for pay of physician, two teachers, two carpenters, one miller, two farmers, a blacksmith, and engineer '(article seven treaty of May tenth, eighteen hundred and sixty-eight), $80,000. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; Mr. Chairman, I think we can get along with the amount allowed by the House, $80,000. Senator Page. I move we allow $80,000. (The item was agreed to.) LINE EIDERS. Page 27, line 1, for the employment of "line riders" along the southern and eastern boundaries of the northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation in the State of Montana, $1,500. Mr. Meritt. The House allowed our estimate. Senator Page. That is your estimate ? MJr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. I move we allow $1,500. (The item was agreed to.) SOOKY boy's band OF CHIPPEWAS. The next item is Hue 4, for support of civilization of Rocky Boy's Band of Chippewas, and other indigent and homeless Indians in the State of Montana, including pay of employees, $5,000. The depart- ment's estimate is $10,000, but the House cut it down to $5,000. I think we ought to agree to $10,000. Mr. Meritt. We shotdd like to have the full amount, for the reason that there are between 400 and 500 of these Indians, and this entire appropriation will be used for the benefit of the Indians. They are homeless and have been roving about for a number of years. We have finally located them on a certain tract of land in Montana, but it is necessary that we provide them with food and clothing. Senator Lane. Will it go for their benefit, or will it mostly be paid out for employees ? Mr. MeEitt. No, sir; it will go to the benefit of the Indians. Senator Page. I move we approve it at $10,000. (The item was agreed to at $10,000.) The next item was as follows: INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. §5 BLACKFEET RESERVATION (mONT.), PURCHASE OP CATTLE. tJ^^^ *^® Secretory of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to withdraw from the ireaaury of the United States not to exceed the sum of $100,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum of deposit to the credit of the Indians on the Blackfeet Reservation La Montana, for the purpose of purchasing and caring for cattle for the use of individual Indians, seeds, and necessary farming equipment, to enable them to become self-supporting: Provided, That said sum shajl be expended under conditions to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior for its repayment and placed into the Treasury to the credit of the said tribe on or before June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and twenty-five: Provided further, That the Secretary of the Interior shall submit to Congress annually on the first Monday in December a detailed statement as to the expenditure of this fund. The Chairman. This is not a gratuity item. That is an appro- priation that will be reimbursed out of the Indian's funds, is it not ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Is it necessary ? Mr. Meritt. It is very desirable. Senator Page. And the House allowed it. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; and the Indians would like to have this money. Senator Page. If it is for good purposes, I am willing to approve it. I move we approve it at $100,000. The Chairman. The motion has been made to approve this item at $100,000. Is there any discussion ? If not, the item is agreed to. FLATHEAD RESERVATION. Senator Lane. I would like to inquire about the lands of the Flat- head Reservation, if the lands are fitted for agricultural purposes. Mr. Meritt (reading) : That lands on the Flathead Indian Reservation in Montana valuable for agricul- tural or horticultural purposes, heretofore classified as timberlands, may, m the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be appraised and opened to homestead entry under regulations prescribed by him, upon condition that homestead entrymen shall at the time of making their original homestead entries pay the full value of the timber found on the land at the time that the appraisement of the land itself is made, such payment to be in addition to the appraised price of the lands apart from the timber. You will find full justification for this item at page 249 of the House hearings. Under existing law homesteaders are not permitted to enter lands that are more valuable for timber than for agricultural purposes. We find there are a number of homesteaders that are willi n g to take up this land and pay the value of the timber, provided they can get the land. The land appears to be valuable for agricul- tural purposes. Senator Lane. At what price per acre was that land appraised ? Mr. Meritt. The lands were appraised at different prices, according to location. - Senator Lane. The lands we are speaking of here — what were they appraised at? Mr. Meritt. There was not a set amount. Senator Lane. What was the average valuation ? Mr. Meritt. It ran anywhere from $2.50 to $10 per acre. Senator Lane. Was it not $2 to $7 ? Mr. Meritt. Probably it was. 86 INDIAN APPBOPEIAnON BILL. Senator Lane. I think it was an average of $4.50 an acre. These lands are to be sold at an average price of $4.50. That is what the Indian wiU get out of it. Mr. Meeitt. The Indians wiU also get the appraised value of the timber on the land in addition to the land. Senator Lane. Is any of this under ditch or water? Mr. Meeitt. I do not think any of it is under water. If the land is under ditch the Indians or whoever purchases the land will be required to pay their pro rata share for the irrigation cost. Senator Lane. That averages about $40 an acre? Mr. Meeitt. It will average, I think, about $30 an acre. Senator Lane. Say, $30. That would be safe. Senator Page. There are no irrigable lands here ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. That is my understanding. Senator Page. I have great sympathy with Mr. Lane's idea, and if these are irrigable lands we will discuss this matter further. Mr. Meeitt. If any of the land is irrigable, the purchaser will have to pay the purchase value and pay the construction cost of the irriga- tion project. Senator Lane. The average value of the land is $4.50, and the cost of irrigation being estimated at $30 an acre, that would amount to $34.50 an acre. That would be the full amount. Mr. Meeitt. In addition, they would have to pay the appraised value of the timber on the land. Senator Lane. Take agricultural land. Some of it has no timber on it. It may have. Mr. Meeitt. This legislation here would only apply to land that has timber on it. Senator Lane. I know this is what happens in some cases, that the Indian gets $4.50 an acre out of it; but the land is sold for from $20 to $30 and $40 an acre. These lands are advertised to be worth $100 an acre. I have in my office advertisements from the chambers of commerce out in that country saying that these lands are worth $100 an acre. Now, as to these lands, as soon as they are under water, they say, "These lands wUl sell at not less than $100 an acre," and out of that the Indians get $4.50 an acre. Senator Page. What would you say to stating here that this clause shall not apply to irrigable land? Mr. Mebitt. I have no objection to that. Senator Page. What do you say to putting that in ? Senator Cuetis. In other words, as I understand it, the Govern- ment spends $27.50 on these lands, the Indian gets $4.50, and then when the settler gets the land it is worth $100 an acre. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; that is not the case. Senator Cuetis. According to Senator Lane's statement the Gov- ernment gets $4.50 for the Indians, and then $27.50 is expended for irrigation, and that makes the land worth $100 an acre to the settler. But the Indian gets only $4.50 an acre. Senator Owen. Is that true ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Lane. That is true, according to the advertisements of the chambers of commerce in Montana. Mr. Meeitt. The Indians on the Flathead Reservation have been ' allotted. The surplus lands have been appraised at anywhere from INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 87 $2.50 to $7 an acre. The settler comes- in and takes up that land at that price. Senator Lane. Yes. Mr. Meeitt. If he takes up any irrigable land, he wiU have to pay his pro rata share of cost of the irrigation project, which will be about $30 an acre, in addition to the price he has already paid for the land. That would be $34 an acre, approximately. There is another side to this story. We have hundreds of letters in the Indian Office from these settlers on this reservation complainmg that they have paid too much for this land, that the land is not worth what the appraising commission valued it at, and we have been appealed to to reduce the appraisement on these lands. Senator Myers has sent in 25 letters himself on the question, and if he were here he would tell you that it was true. Senator Owen. Let us get back to the meat of this. Senator Lane. Let me get in my statement. Senator Owen. Very weU. Senator Lane. Mr. Meritt has told us these lands cost, when irri- gated, about $34. Is that right ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. Now, $4.50 is the average value put upon these lands. Is that right ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. The average cost of the irrigation project wiU be $30 an acre. That will make it $34.50 an acre. The chambers of com- merce are sending advertisements aU over the country stating that the lands under reclamation ditches are worth $100 an acre. I have that advertisement javer in my office, and I have telephoned for it. Senator Curtis. Let the assistant commissioner furnish a state- ment as to the number of acres of this land, the number of acres susceptible to irrigation, and the amount of agricultural land; that we may know something about it. Mr. Meritt. I will be glad to furnish that information. Senator Lane. This land which is being subjected to this plan is checkerboarded by the allotments given to the Indians, and certain Indian lands are being sold? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. What about the project of irrigation itself — is that being constructed? Mr. Meritt. That project is being constructed by the Reclamation Service, and the Government is advancing funds out of the Treasury, to be reimbursed out of tribal funds. About one-half of the land under this project belongs to white people, the other haK belonging to Indians. Senator Lane. It has already been sold to the whites ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; under laws enacted by Congress. We at- tempted to get legislation through last year which would make the land itself bear the pro rata cost of this irrigation project, so that the whites and the Indians alike would pay their pro rata share. Senator Lane. In other words, these increased values are due to the Government reclamation project, which is partly for the benefit of the white settlers and partly for the benefit of the Indians ? Mr. Meritt. Yes sir. , . .t, ^ Senator Lane. All to be reimbursed to the Government ? 88 INDIAN APPBOPKIATKN BILL. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. You are putting this in at the expense of the Indians? Mr. Meritt. Under existing law eyery dollar will be reimbursed out of the Indians' funds. It is reimbursable. The Government has been advancing funds for this project. The Indians' funds are held responsible for repayment to the Government, and we also hold the white owners on that reservation responsible for the charge for irrigat- ing their land. Senator Owen. Is this a primary appropriation out of the Indians' funds or out of the United States Treasury ? Mr. Meritt. Out of the United States Treasury. Senator Curtis. Why take it out of the Indians' fxmds ? Mr. Meritt. We want this money reimbursed to the Government. We want to hold the individual property of the Indians, as well as the property of the whites, responsible for the cost of the irrigation project. Senator Curtis. You hold their property responsible for reimburse- ment to the Government? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. ' Senator Curtis. If the white settlers fail to pay, you take every dollar of it out of the Indians' money to pay for it; so the Indian is paying for it; his money is responsible. Mr. Meritt. Oh, no; because the lands of the white people are said to be worth $100 an acre. Senator Lane. I thought you said that was not so a while ago. Mr. Meritt. They are when they have been placed under irriga- tion. I have no doubt that the irrigated lands now under cultivation on that reservation are worth that amount. Senator Lane. I thought you said the white settlers were com- I)laining that the appraised value was too high, and that that might ead to their throwing up the land. . Mr. Meritt. That does not include the irrigable land. Senator Lane. I was talking about the irrigable land. Mr. Meritt. The appraising commission hasappraised the surplus land at from $2.50 to S7 per acre. Senator Lane. The Indians are very poor and in bad circumstances. Some of them are said to be eating out of swill barrels. Senator Owen. Mr. Meritt said there are many complaints on the part of settlers that the primary appraisement by the Governmeiit was excessive, but they only presented the other side of the complaint, If I understand this correctly, the Government of the United States has advanced out of its Treasury this money for this reclamation project, and thereby created the value of the reclamation lands, after they. are reclaimed and made productive. So there is a large value given to them, both to the Indian homesteader and the white home- steader. They were being benefited to the extent of that develop- inent through Governmental activities; but the Government is reim- bursed and the land is held responsible and is sufficient to meet thai liability. Mr. Meritt. The Flathead Indians have tribal property worth' $7,000,000. There is no question about the Government being reimbursed. INDIAN APPEOPHIAIION BILL. 89 Senator Owen. If you make the Flathead Indians' funds respon- sible as a bondsman for the whole project, then they are contributing somethmg more than the United States on behalf of the white set- tlers. That is the point Senator Curtis had in mind. Mr. Meritt. We recognized the injustice of that and brought it to the attention of this committee last year, and we included in the Indian bill legislation to remove that objection. We have also sub- mitted the same legislation to this Congress. It is included in our estimates and that will come up in the sundry civil biU in connection with the reclamation appropriation. I hope it will be enacted. Senator Owen. While the Flathead Indians' funds are nominally responsible, the lands under this improvement will be worth far more than the amount necessary to reimburse the Government. Is that correct 1 Mr. Meeitt. That is true. Senator Page. I want to caU your attention. Senator, to the fact that in every case, the legislation suggested by the department to pro- tect the Indian has been fought so bitterly upon the floor of the Senate that it has been impossible to carry it. The legislation amounts to nothing. I think you will remember that last session or the .year before every one of the Western States where they have Indians objected to the legislation suggested by the department. Mr. Meritt. I think it was finally agreed to by the two Senators from Montana that this legislation should go into the Indian bill last year, and they have also agreed to the legislation now submitted to Congress. In fact, the entu-e Montana delegation has agreed to the legislation Senator Page. The Montana delegation fought it bitterly. 5klr. Meritt. I think there wiU be no trouble about it this year. Senator Owen. What did they fight ? Senator Page. We insisted that the water power that irrigated this land should be regarded as belonging to the Indians under the implied provision of the treaty that they should have the water to irrigate these lands. The western Senators said, "We will never consent to any law or ruling that for one moment will give any right or any powers over our streams there." That is to say, the Indians, they insisted, should have the right to file in and take the land just the same as anyone else, but no more. Senator Owen. This reclamation project could not be carried out except for the appropriation of funds for that purpose. Senator Page. You will remember that there is a decision some- where that the Indians were entitled under the treaty, before the admission of Montana to the Union, to the right to certain waters. Senator Owen. Yes. Senator Page. Now, the Senators from those States say that, not- withstanding the decision of the Supreme Court, they will never consent that the principle laid down m that decision shall be appli- cable, and wiU fight it, because, they say, it is wrong. They will not consent to any legislation that seems to imply that the Indians can have it for their own use to the extent they want it. In other words, they must make beneficial use of it. Senator Curtis. They claim the party that appropriates it first is entitled to it. 90 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. Senator Page. Yes. As a matter of fact, the Indians were wronged and grossly wronged in this matter. Senator Owen. Do I understand that the authorities of the State of Montana are insisting that the white settlers shall have the use of the water and the Indians shall not ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Owen. Or that the Indians because of their laches loose their right ? Mr. MEKrrT. That is the point. We attempted a year ago to get that point sguarely before Congress, and get a recognition of the principle which the Supreme Court laid down in the Winters case (207 tJ. S., 564). It is to the effect that the Indians have practically a perpetual water right on their lands, and that the failure to make beneficial use of the water will not deprive these Indians of their water rights. Senator Page. It is right on that point that the Senators from these Western States fight. Mr. Meritt. a large number of the Western Startes have enacted legislation providing for beneficial use of the water in order to hold it. Senator Owen. And that excludes the Indians, because of laches? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. That is the difficulty we have with the Indian. The Indian is not very aggressive in acquiring property. He does not feel disposed to be active and get up at daybreak and get hold of a piece of property. Senator Page. As a matter of fact, his money is paying for all these improvements, and after he has paid for them, if they prove a success, all right; but if there is a loss, it is his. If there is anything made, the white man gets it. Senator Owen. I think it ought to be provided that this project shall be carried out only upon the condition that the Indian should have the benefit of it. Senator Curtis. It is the fault either of the department or Con- gress in not giving them money to develop it. They can not develop those lands unless money is given them to do it. They can not put in those ditches unless we appropriate money for that purpose. We give them nothing to do anything with — no money, no horses^ no cattle, no .anything. Then the white man goes in and takes pos- session and appropriates the water. Then they claim they have appropriated it first, and therefore they have a right to it. Senator Owen. I think it is quite clear that they can not be charged with laches. I am speaking of the States' theory. Senator Lane. Are not we bound to act as faithful guardians ? Senator Hltsting. They certainly can not be charged with laches when they are in the same position as a minor, the insane person, or anybody else under a guardian. Senator Owen. Where the State has authority that theory does not altogether hold. Senator Clapp. Mr. Meritt, it is on this very ground that the depart- ment has so often urged us to advance money to secure rights before. The Chairman. Senators, I think we ought to make the observa- tion here in regard to that proposition of laches on the part of the Indian. The committee put in a proviso on this subject, so that laches on the part of the Indian should in no way impair their rights. INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 91 It was strenuously contested on the floor of the Senate, and was lost. This is the way the language read: Provided, That the use of so much water as may be necessary to supply for domestic, stock watering, and irrigation purposes, land allotted or to be allotted to Indians on the Black Feet Reservation or set aside for administrative purposes within said reservation, is hereby reserved, and the failure of any individual Indian or Indians to make beneficial use of such water shall not operate in any manner to defeat his or her rights thereto. All laws or parts of laws in conflict herewith are hereby repealed. That proviso was vigorously contested on the floor of the Senate. A large part of the Senators from the West insisted with much force on the control of water of all navigable streams. The amendment, or proviso, was defeated. The Supreme Court, in the so-called Winters case, very strongly supported the view of this committee. Senator Page. That is all in the testimony. The treaty obhga- tion is such that the Indians must not be deprived of their water rights. Senator Owen. That is binding upon the State of Montana and enforceable by the United States. Senator Page. Yes, sir. Senator Husting. The Indians can not draw any money except through Congress, and a project Hke that costs money. Unless they have the money to carry on the work they can hardly be guUty of laches for not doing it. Senator Page. How many millions has that project cost up to date 1 Mr. Meritt. It has cost $1,200,000 up to date and will cost when completed, if the plans of the Reclamation Service are carried out, between 15,000,000 and $6,000,000. Senator Owen. Does this bill protect the Indians against any possi- bility of loss from laches ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Our estimates -will be found on page 741 of the Book of Estimates. The Chairman. That is not in this bill. Mr. Meritt. No, sir. The Chairman. It is in the Indian biH ? Mr. Meritt. In the sundry civil bill. Senator Owen. Why should we not put that in this biU? The Chairman. There was no recommendation from Montana. Senator Owen. Whether there was any recommendation from Montana or anywhere else, we ought to impose a condition here to protect the Indians against laches. The Chairman. For myself, I expect to ask for some provision in regard to laches, delay, neglect, or anything of that kind, so that it Avill not impair the rights of the Indians or occasion them loss of their rights. Senator Page. Do you know whether the same amendment which has been put in here has been taken away from the committee and referred to some other committee ? . The Chairman. I do not know, sir. This bill is just as we received it. I have no information on that. Senator Page. That was considered here in this committee last The Chairman. I do not know of any. This Indian bill is here, of course, as it came to us. I do not know anything about that. 92 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. Senator Clapp. I am heartily in favor of the provisions referred to by the chairman. But there is the contention of the Senate and there is the contingency of the court, and I think that where we can abso- lutely make this certain by making an appropriation for the land we owe it to the Indians to make the advance and make the appropriation. If we give the Indians the money, so that they can appropriate this land before anybody else, then there is no lawyer or court that would claim for a moment that that could be defeated. So far as we can do that, we make it absolutety certain that these irrigation projects are saved for the Indians; otherwise we can not make it certain. For that reason I have always said that I would favor the view of the commissioner in trying to get these appropriations of money so as to make appropriations of the land under the law in advance of others. Senator Husting. Now, if the Indians are to appropriate this water for irrigation purposes, they must have the money. Is that correct? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Husting. It costs large sums of money to do that. Mr. Meritt. We have expened about $11,000,000 in irrigation work for the Indians. Senator Husting. It costs money to irrigate ? Mr. Meritt. Oh, yes. ' Senator Husting. And the Indians can not get these sums of money to irrigate except through the Government. Mr. Meritt. That is true. Senator Husting. If Congress refuses to give them the money, is it the idea, if the Indians do not act in the matter, they are deprived of their rights ? Mr. Meritt. This comes up where the Government has appropria- ated money and has constructed a project. Senator Husting. With whose money ? Mr. Meritt. With the Indians' money, or gratuity appropriations by Congress. They have to make beneficial use of the water in order to protect their rights. The beneficial use of those waters within the boundaries of a State is the primary consideration in order to hold that water. In that case the Indians must comply with the State laws or lose the water rights, unless the Winters decision prevails. Senator Husting. Why don't the Government take steps to pro- tect their rights ? ■ Mr. Meritt. That is what we are trying to do now. Take, for instance, the Uintah Reservation in Utah. Congress has appro^ priated $1,000,000 for construction of an irrigation project and has also enacted legislation in the Indian appropriation act extending the State water laws to that reservation; and we have now only three or four years in which to put that land under cultivation. During the last year we have put 20,000 acres of land under cultiva- tion on that reservation so as to hold the water right. We had to lease to outside white people. We expect to put every acre of that- land under cultivation so as to hold the water rights, because other- wise the Indians may lose their water rights, notwithstanding the fact that we have expended $1,000,000 in the construction of this irrigation project. Senator Lane. I agree with the suggestion of Senator Walsh and Senator Myers that surplus land which the Indians can not use ought INDIAN API»ROPBIATION BILL. QB to be made use of by somebody else. It ought to go to the whites who will use it. The Indians should not hold on to it and leave it idle. I also believe that it ought to go out of the Indians' possession only on fair terms to the Indians. Here is the proposition: $4.50 is the average price that the Indian wiU get. Thefe is an extra charge of from $30 to $40^1 think $30 is about fight— for reclaiming it lihrough irrigation. These ehainbers of commerce I have mentioned are advertising these lands to be Worth $100 an acre, as hear as I fec&ll. There is a ^^etence there between $34 of $44 and $100, which accfUes to th^ white man after he gets possession of the land, and the Indian does not -get it. I think it is no more than fair— I insist that it is wrong to do othfefwise^-that the Indians should derive a poftion, if not all, of the benefit of that. If the land is worth $100, or is WOfth $50, or even if it is worth only $1 more than this charge, it ought to go to the Indians. As it is, $4.50 an acte goes to the Indian, and I submit that that is not enough. If we are the guafdians of these liidialis, why arc we not performing our duty to them ? The depart- ment is not to blame, Congress is to blame, and it is as a Member of the Congress that I am speaking. I do not want to be held respon- sible for any such management of a ward under me. I wash my hands of it. I won't do it. More than that, I protest vigorously" against it. I wiU even go further than that — I will fight it. The Chairman. Do you ask that this item be passed over, Senator Curtis? ■ Senator Curtis. Yes. The Chairman. It is passed over. GENOA (nEBR.) INDIAN SCHOOL. The next item is Nebraska, page 28, line 19, for the support and education of 400 Indian pupils at the Indian school at Genoa, Nebr., including pay of superintendent, $68,800; for general repairs and iMprovements, $5,000; for new boilers at power plant, extension of lighting system and of water and sewer main, and for construction of septic tank, $10,800; in all, 184,600. Senator Owen. Might we suspend the Indian bill long enough to present a reply of the department in regard to S. J. Ites. No. 4 ? The Chairman. Certainly. (Whereupon proceedings on the Indian biU were suspended and the committee considered S. J. Res. No. 4.) wind river INDIAN LANDS. Senator Husting. If there is nothing else before the committee, I want to read a letter signed by Thomas L. Sloan, in reply to a letter written by the Rev. Sherman Coohdge, president of the Society of American Indians. The Chairman. On what matter? , Senator Husting. This is a Wyoming matter, and it involves this, matter about waterrights. The Chairman. We wiU recur to the appropriation bill. 1 Senator Owen. Yes. Let him read his letter. The Chairman. All right. Senator. 94 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. Senator Husting. This is addressed to the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. I am in receipt of a letter from Rev. Sherman Coolidge, president of the Society of American Indians, saying that "The Wind River Indians are very much_ concerned about the land that has been taken up by the white men on the ceded portion of theii reservation; my impression is they would like to have such homesteads, not yet paid for, canceled and revert to the Indians for their use and benefit. Then too, their chance to secure water rights from the State of Wyoming will expire December 1, 1916. The water right in Wyoming is a most serious question and probably many allottees need departmental or congressional help, or both. Such allottees are doubt- less among the aged, widows, orphans, minors, and persons who by force of circum- stances are absent from the reservation or otherwise unable to personally handle their land. Many of the allotments are under the management or authority of the agent, who may be too busy to attend to themproperly, for instance, to lease for the sake of the water right; he may also face the difficulty or the impossibility of. getting anybody to lease the land, yet it is his duty to protect the allottee whose land he controls. And again, the terms of the lease contract and printed requirements scare many a man out who might be seeking to work the land and make a beneficial use of the water on it, thereby securing and maintaining the water right of the Indian. And then the lease must be approved by the department which might mean delay and disapproval and disappointment. It is discouraging to the parties interested. I hope the bureau is looking after the water rights. The homesteads on the ceded portion are perhaps those not paid for and unoccupied. Yes; Indians have been known to eat dead stock in the past, and it would not sur- prise me, if some of them are doing it at this writing. It is an old story on the Wind River Reservation, and might be just as true among other tribes on other reservations. It is my opinion they did so because they were both ignorant and hungry — careless of the cause of death. You state that, according to your recollection, on two occasions I have admitted the truth of statements to the effect that my tribesmen, driven by hunger "ate sheep and stock that had died from disease." One of the cases 1 admitted as true was the eating of drowned sheep by some of my tribesmen. Some thousands of sheep were drowned by an overflow of the river caused by the break of an ice jam. They ate the sheep they could fish out. It was winter; they were hungry, and it was a godsend to them. Senator Owen. I think one of the most vital defects in the adminis- tration of Indian affairs is the failure on the part of the Interior De- partment to charge the man at the post with full responsibility of not only doing what the law requires, but anticipating the loss of interests of the Indians by laches or anything of that kmd; so he would be made responsible for it and responsible for the local administration, and not compel every single thmg that is done to be sent up to be visaed by the Indian Office and then by the Secretary of the Interior before it is accomplished. In that way the man at the responsible post thinks that, after aU, he can unload his responsibility onto the Interior Department. The commissioner has his desk literally covered with a great mass of details which no human being can cope with. I know that personally, and know it well. We would save a very large part of our expenditures if we followed the policy of re- quiring these men who are on the ground to discharge the functions and making them subject to dismissal if they did not do so; of course leaving them the right of appeal or a review of their case. They ought not to be compelled to send every single thing back here to the department for vis6. Mr. Meeitt. I may say that the Rev, Coolidge is mistaken in this matter. We are now in cooperation with the local representatives of the State of Wyoming, and we have had the time extended on these water rights tmtil 1921, and we are now leasing these lands to white people, and are selling the lands, if the Indians desire to sell, wherever we can get purchasers. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 95 Senator Owen. I think our Indian Oiiice is doing the best it can. I do not want to have my remarks construed as a criticism. I do not wish to be understood as criticizing in any way what the Indian Office is doing. What I do criticize is lack of method which will facilitate the transaction of business of the United States with a minimum of lost motion. That is what I criticize, and I think I am justified in it. I know that is true. I believe that one-third of the amount we expend for overhead charges, could be saved if we stopped this lost motion in the manner I have referred to. Senator Lane. I want this placed in the record on this bill. I made a statement, that it was advertised by the Montana chambers of commerce that these lands were worth 1 100 an acre. Here is a circular dated BiUings, Mont., August 31, 1915, headed, "We want a million for Flathead irrigation." That is, $1,000,000 for the project. The letter is signed by James Harbert, chairman of the committee on irrigation Of the Billings Chamber of Commerce. It sa,ys, ' ' These lands will be worth on an average $100 per acre the minute the water is made available." The Chairman. That will go into the record in the absence of objection. Senator Lane. Very well. (The letter referred to appears in a subsequent portion of these hearings.) GENOA (NEBR.) INDIAN SCHOOL. The Chairman. We are down to the item on page 28, line 19, Nebraska. Sec. 11. For support and education of four hundred Indian pupils at the Indian school at Genoa, Nebraskia, including pay of superintendent, $68,800; for general repairs and improvements, $5,000; for new boilers at power plant, extension of lighting system and of water and sewer main, and for construction of septic tank, $10,800; in all, $84,600. The department asked for $80,000 and the House increased the esti- mate by $4,600. Senator Curtis. What is that, Mr. Meritt ? Mi. Meritt. The House allowed us $84,600. The House reduced our estimate $5,000. We estimated for general repairs and improve- ments, $10,000; and the House allowed us only $5,000. We would like to have our estimates for this school. That is one of our very best nonreservation schools. It is located conveniently to the Indian Reservation and we have quite a large number of buildings there, and they need repairs. You will find there are 39 buUdin^ i there. There is a typographical error in the second column, "esti- i mated 1917." The amount should be $89,600. Senator Curtis. Why do you want the amount estimated over and above what the House allowed ? Mr. Meritt. We have 39 buildings out at the school. Senator, valued at $262,000. Some of those buildings have been constructed I for a great many years and they are badly in need of repairs. We I can not keep the school buildings up to the required standard without 1 amnple funds, and we would like to have that amount. I Senator Curtis. What is the capacity of that school there? Mr. Meritt. The capacity of the school is 400. 96 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. How many have you there? How many are attending? Mr. Meeitt. "We have an average attendance oi 391. Senator Cuetis. Three hundred and ninety-one ? Mr. MeritT. Yes> sir. The superintendent has submitted a yery urgent request for the $10,000 for repairs so as to place these school buildings m proper condition. Senator PaUe. You want the item for general rfepau-s and miprove- ments to be $10,000 instead ©f $5,000 ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. I move to approve that item. • The Chairman It is agreed to at $89,600, without objection. NEW MEXICO INDIAN SCHOOL, ALBUQUERQUE. The Chairman. The Senators from New Mexico have some amend- ments, but we might proceed with New Mexico in so far as there is no contest of the items. We will take it up at page 29, line 23,. for support and education of 450 Indian pupils at the Indian sehool at Albuquerque, N. Mex., and for pay of superintendent, $77,400; for general repairs and improvements, $8,000; for the purchase of addi- tional acreage adjoining the school farm, $12,000; in all, $97,400. Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House; but I would like to have inserted the words "or in the vicinity of" after the word "adjoining," on page 30, line 2, so that it will make it read "for purchase of additional acreage adjoining or in the vicinity of the school farm." That is for the purpose of ena- bling us to buy land in the vicinity of the school and not be limited to land adjoining it. If we were limited to buying land adjoining, we might be held up. If the language is not changed, it wUl give a monopoly to those who hold the land adjoining the school farm; Senator Curtis. How much land is there there now? Mr. Meritt. There is a very small acreage; about 65 acres, if I remember correctly. Senator Curtis. How much additional land do you want to buy? Mr. Meritt. About 40 acres. Senator Curtis. What isyour object there, to make a farm ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. We are trying to make all of those non- reservation schools industrial in character. The land there is quite expensive. It is irrigated land. We want to raise as nearly as possible all the vegetables that will be consumed at the school. Senator Curtis. Have you been successful at other schools in this work? Mr. Meritt. At some of our schools. This is one of our successful schools. Senator Curtis. What you mean is, you have been successful in | raising vegetables at other schools ? Mr. Meritt. Not always. We have written a very strong letter to our superintendents urging them to do that. Senator Curtis. You buy forage where you have farms? Don't you raise enough forage for your stock? H Mr. Meritt. We buy the forage from the Indians on the reservation. Senator Curtis. In addition to what you produce on the farm? INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 97 Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. On the reservations we have usually very small farms. Senator Curtis. I have no objection. (The item was agreed to.) SANTA FE, N. MEX., INDIAN SCHOOL. The Chairman. The next item is at line 4, for support and edu- cation of aSO Indian pupils at the Indian school at Santa Fe, N. Mex., and for pay of superintendent, $59,550; for general repau-s and im- provenients, $6,000; for water supply, $1,600; in all, $67,150. Do you think you can get along with the amount allowed by the House ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Without objection, the item is agreed to at $67,150. PUEBLO INDIANS, NEW MEXICO. The next item was — For the pay of one epecial attorney for flu? Pueblo Indians of New Mexico, to be designated by the Secretary of the Interior, and for necessary traveling expenses of said attorney, ?2,000, or so much thereof as the Secretary of the Interior may deem hecessary. Senator Curtis. That is an old item ; we have had that for 30 years. Senator Clapp. We have had it for 37 years. Senator. (The item was agreed to.) MESA VERDE NATIONAL PARK, N. JiIEX. Line 14— For construction work on the Indian highway extending from the Mesa Verde National Park to Gallup, New Mexico, on the Navajo Reservation, $15,000, said sum to be reimbursed from any funds which are now or may hereafter be placed in the Treasury to the credit of said Indians: Provided, That such sum shall be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior in such manner and at such times and places as he may deem proper, and in the employment of Indian labor as far as possible for the construction of said highway. Senator Curtis. There is nothing here. There is nothing in this estimate, at least. I have not been able to find anything out about that. Mr. Meritt. This item was inserted in the House. Senator Page. You mean the item commencing with line 14? Senator Curtis. Yes. Mr. Meritt. Under date of January 14, 1916, the department sub- mitted a report on that item. The Chairman. What does it mean, Mr. Meritt ? Senator Curtis. Is it a public hignway ? Mr. Meritt. I don't know that you would call it a public high- way. It is a road on the Navajo Reservation. I'he Chairman. I remember it now. Mr. Meritt. It does, however, connect up with the road leading to the reservation. The Chairman. I remember it now. • Mr. Meritt. We are encouraging the Indians to construct roads on the reservation, becauoe we find it increases the value of the lands and enables the Indians to get their produce to market. 31362—16 7 98 IXDIAJv' APPROPKIATION BILL. Senator Criixis. How maii-^- miles does that cover ? Mr. Meeitt. I will read you a letter that was signed by the becre- tary of the Interior about this matter ( eading) : (Mr. Meritt read as follows:) Department op the Interior, Washington, January t8, 1916. My Dear Mr. Stephens: Referrina; to your letter of Januaiy 14, requesting a report on H. R. 24, appropriating $15,000 for the construction of a wagon road on the Navajo Reservation in Netv Mexico, 1 wish to give you a statement of the facts which demand attention in considering this bill. The valley drained by the San Juan River lies partly in New Mexico and partly in Colorado. It is a fertile valley with an abundance of water, and several thousand acres of land are under irrigation. Excellent crops are produced but there is only one railroad entering the valley, and this has to cross the high mountains north and east of Durango, Colo. Freight rates are unusually high and the inhabitants of the valley suffer from the inaccessibility of good markets. The Navajo Reservation in New Mexico forms the southern part of the valley, and, as there is a railroad running throug;h the towns located just south of the reservation in New Mexico, this vast stretch of Indian country acts as a barrier between the rest of the valley and these railroad towns. Gallup is the most accessible railroad station south of the reservation, being located on the main Una of the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad, while Farmington, near the center of the valley, is the terminal of the railroad entering the valley from Colorado. At the present time, to ship by rail from Farmington to Gallup, a dis- tance of a little more than a hundred miles in an air line, the supplies must pass over a long circuitous route of some 600 miles via Albuquerque, N. Mex. It now requires about four days for mail to go from Shiprock, the agency for the San Juan jurisdiction, about 35 miles from Farmington, to Gallup by rail. From this it can be seen that the shipment of products from the valley by rail is made under most unsatisfactory con- ditions. A large amount of traffic goes to Gallup at the present time from the valley by way of an overland route running from Farmington to Shiprock and thence to Gallup. The route has been maintained for years by Indian labor and it is in sfich shape that automobiles can make the trip during certain parts of the year. However, the summer rains in this region are torrential in character and there are times when the arroyas run bank full, often carrying as high as 10 feet depth of water. After such rains, large ditches are washed and travel is exceedingly difficult tor any kind of vehicle. Water stands on the roads and the surface is so rutted as to be impassable for long periods. When automobiles can travel on the road the trip from Shiprock to Gallup can be made in from 10 to 12 hours, while teams can make the trip in from two to two and one- half days. On the section of the road under the jurisdiction of the San Juan School, from Shiprock south to the Navajo jurisdiction, work has been done and the condition so improved that it is not believed advisable to make the large expenditures necessary to provide a permanent first-class road. The route under the jurisdiction of the Navajo Agency, commencing at a point where the road enters the southern boundary of the reservation and running in a northerly direction to the San Juan jurisdiction, must be improved, however, before the route from Farmington to Gallup will be opened at all times to all kinds of traffic. There has been a great deal of agitation for good roads throughout this section. The people of San Juan County and southern Colorado are building good roads from Durango and farther north to the reservation line, while McKinley C ounty is constructing a good road from the southern reservation line on to Gallup. The people of the valley are very desirous of having established a good permanent highway which will permit the operation of automobile mail service between Farmington and Gallup by way of Shiprock, across the Navajo Reservation for a distance of about 100 miles, and will give an outlet for the sale of fruit and other products and connect the San Juan Valley with the main line of the Santa Fe system at Gallup. It is believed that the improve- ment of the stretch of road under the Navajo jurisdiction and the other improvements by the counties will permit the operation of seven-hour mail service betwen Gallup and Farmington. The Navajo population in the valley is considerable, which means that a large amount of Indian freight goes over the road annually, the Indians doing the freighting for the different traders on the reservation, and the Indians will share with the other inhabitants of the valley in the benefits to be derived from such an outlet. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 99 Tialnwl^^*® people all request that the Government do its share by making the road SfoT^ti^o ^"^"^^ , reservation. No great amount of funds have been available and maintenance work on the route now used is all that has been done. An engineer lr?A^^ .A ^^survey of the bad stretch of road, approximately 40 miles in length, and esUmated that $54,253.28 would be needed to estabUsh a first-class road. The inaians are unable to repair the road and there is no prospect of obtaining funds for T iT r "^^®^^ ^^ appropriation is made by Congress. I believe that m a situation of this sort the Government should not let the Indian country prove a diwback to the other part of the San Juan Valley and a bar to the progress of the whole valley. I, therefore, recommend that the bill receive favorable consideration, and that approximately $15,000 be appropriated for expenditure each year untu the amount estimated has been appropriated and the project completed. Ihe report of the engineer is inclosed for the information of your committee, and retui-n after its purpose has been served. Cordially, yours, _ - „ „ (Signed) Franklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. John H. Stephens, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. Mr. Meritt. You will note that this is roimbiirsable out of tribal fimds, and we expect that the Indians will be amply repaid for the construction of this road on their reservation. Senator Curtis. I have no objection. The Chairman. Without objection it is agreed to. SENECA INDIANS (NEW YORK) TREATIES. Mr. Meritt. The next two items are treaty obligations. The Chairman. Yes; that is under New York, line 25, page 30, for fulfiUing treaties with Senacas of New York: For permanent annuity in lieu of interest on stock (act of February nineteenth,- eighteen hundred and thirty-one), $6,000. ; For fulfilling treaties with Six Nations of New York: For permanent annuity, in clothing and other useful articles (article six, treaty of November eleventh, seven- teen hundred and ninety-four), $4,500. These items conclude on page 37; the first for $6,000 and the second for $4,500. Senator Page. I move that they be agreed to. Senator Curtis. I have no objection. Mr. Meritt. They are treaty obligations. The Chairman. The first item, $6,000, ia agreed to. Is there any objection to the next item ? ; Senator Page. I move that we approve that. . The Chairman. Agreed to at $4,500. : Mr. Meritt. The amount allowed by the House was the same as the estimates. The items were agreed to. CHEROKEE (N. C.) INDIAN SCHOOL. The next item is North Carolina, page 31, line 8, for support and- education of 180 Indian pupils at the Indian School at Cherokee, N. C, including pay of superintendent, $30,000 ; for general repairs and improvements, $6,000; in all, $36,000. Senator Page. No objection. " (The item was agreed to.) , ., „ The Chairman. North Dakota is passed until Senator Gronna is present. We will also pass Oklahoma until Senator Owen comes in.. 100 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. KLAMATH AGENCY, OREG. Senator Lane. Will you also pass Oregon for the present, Mr. Chairman ? The Chairman. Don't you want to take up these items to-day? Senator Lane. I can take them up; yes. The Chairman. Very well. Is there any objection to the item commencing on line 1, page 43: For support and civilization of Indians of the Klamath Agency, Oregon, including pay of employees, $6,000. Mr. Meritt. They are our estimates. The Chairman. The House estimate is agreed to without ob- jection. WARM springs (OREG. ) AGENCY. The next item was : For support and civilization of the Confederated tribes and bands under Warm Springs Agency, Oregon., including pay of employees, $4,000. The Chairman. That is the estimate. Senator Lane. Do you have anything, Mr. Meritt, on the Warm Springs Agency, in justification of that appropriation ? Mr. Meritt. Justification is found on page 355 of the House hearings. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. Senator Lane. That tribe of Indians, the Klamaths, are the ' richest of any Indians in America. The Indians are worth over forty thousand apiece in. their tribal rights, yet they are restricted in such a manner that they are not going ahead except on the reclama- tion project. The engineer in charge of that work has done the finest piece of engineering work I have ever seen. He is an expert. It is a beautifulpiece of work. He is a skillful man and a very in- genious man. That man ought to have good treatment from the bureau. I don't remember his name, and know him but shghtly; but I want the department to know that he has done the finest piece of engineering work there that I have ever seen. Mr. Meritt. His name is Hinks. I would like to have his name go in the record so that he may get credit for his good work. The Chairman. AU right. Senator Lane. He is a capable man. That is the best piece of reclamation work I have ever seen. The condition of the Indians is such that, with the exception of a few who are farming, they are not going ahead to the extent they should. They are shrewd, sWp, capable men, but under the opportunities they have, they have not been going ahead. Much Of their land is timberland. Some are old and blind and helpless and in want. That is true as to a few in- stances. Their names were no doubt sent in to the department, and are on file there. That condition of affairs has been going on th.BB9 for years. The Indians themselves are helpless. I met them in council. Some of them were without food and are not allowed to cut for sale a stick of timber off their allotment. , There were 13 in jail the day I was there. The bureau had secured the services of a very active and skillful young ma;n from the East, who was running them down for gambling. They had been sen- INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 101 toaced from 30 to 40 days each. There were two women among them. Iney were in a mere shack of a building there, a horrible place. Inere were no beds provided in it or accommodations of any kind. It IS one of the rules of that reservation that an Indian has to furnish his or her own bed and blankets when they are jailed. If they do not furnish them they lie on the floor and go cold in winter. I asked one of them what he had been doing, and he said he had been gambling; and I asked what he had been playing— faro, poker, three-card monte, or some other card game, and he said, "No." A Senator. Did you ask him if he had been playing "craps?" Senator Lane. No; he had not even been playiag "craps." They had been playing a game which the Indians call "sticks," in which you guess m which hand an object is held, for 5 cents a game. That fame was played in this coimtry before Columbus discovered America, 'hese men were in jaU for playing that game. We used to call it "huU guU." It was ridiculous. One Indian they let off while I was there from his sentence for the purpose of going out and taking care of his cattle, for the reason that drovers were coming through that country with cattle and his might get mixed in with them and be driven off. _ That sometimes happens and the Indian never sees them again. This fellow went off for three or four days on his own recog- nizance, and at the end of that time agreed to return to jaU. Some of the timber is overripe and ought to be selected out and cut and disposed of. Then, there is other timber that ought not to be cut, and will, if properly thinned out and left to stand, increase greatly in value. These portions of the forest ought to be preserved. These Indians -ought to be permitted and encouraged to go into the mill business and cut and handle their timber, or do something like that. Some of them, however, are capable and very well off. I think that spending $6,000 for a lot of employees out there is a waste of money. The Chairman. Oh, Senator, let it go. Let's agree to it. Senator Lane. There is the Warm Springs Agency. There are a few Indians that have a few acres without a drop of water on them. If that land had water it could be developed into fertility. The water runs right alongside the land in a stream. That land could be irrigated at small expense. As it is, they do not even raise vegetables for the children in the school. Senator Page. Do you move to strike out the $6,000? Senator Lane. Yes. I would move to strike them all out. (The item was agreed to.) Senator Lane. Umatilla Agency I want' to go over. Mr. Meritt. The Umatilla item does not provide for the construc- tion of any bridges. Senator Lane. No. The Chairman. You want to object to this Warm Springs item ? Senator Lane. No. The Chairman. That is agreed to« UMATILLA AGENCY, OREG. The next item was as follows: For the support and civilization of the Indians of the Umatilla Agency, Oregon, including pay of employees, $3,000, 102 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BTT.L. Senator Page. That item is agreed to. The Chaieman. Yes; but the $119,000 item goes over. GRANDE RONDE AND SILETZ AGENCIES. The next item was as follows : For support and civilization of Indians at Grande Ronde and Siletz Agencies, Oregon, including pay of employees, $4,00: Provided, That section three of an act en- titled "An act to authorize the sale of certain lands belonging to the Indians of the Siletz Indian Reservation in the State of Oregon," approved May thirteenth, nine- teen hundred and ten, be, and the same is hereby, amended by striking out all of said section and inserting in lieu thereof the following: MODOC POINT IRRIGATION SYSTEM, KLAMATH AGENCY. The Chairman. Yes; section 3, line 10, page 44: Sec. 3. That when such lands are surveyed and platted, they shall be appraised and sold, except land reserved for water-power sites as provided in section two of this act, under the provisions of the Revised Statutes covering the sale of town sites located on the public domain. That the proceeds derived from the sale of any lands hereunder, after reimbursing the United States for the expense incurred in carrying out the provisions of this act, in the discretion of the Secretary of the'. Interior, shall be deposited in the Treasury to the credit of said Indians. For construction, maintenance, and operation of the Modoc Point irrigation system within the Klamath Indian Reservation, in the State of Oregon, $20,000, reimburs- able in accordance with the provisions of the act of March third, nineteen hundred and eleven: Provided, That the limit of cost of said project fixed by the act of August twenty-fourth — Senator Lane. I do not know very much about that. The item beginning on hne 20 is a good one. Senator Page. Won't you make a motion to approve section 3? Senator Lane. What does section 3 refer to, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. The act of May 13, 1910, authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to dispose of lands. Secretary Lane. That is all right. Senator Page. I move we approve that item. (The item was agreed to at $4,000.) mesa verde national park highway. For construction work on the Indian highway extending from the Mesa Verde National Park to Gallup, New Mexico, on the Navajo Reservation, ?15,000, said sum to be reimbursed from any funds which are now or may hereafter be placed in the Treasury to the credit of said Indians: Provided, That said sum shall be expended under direction of the jSecretary of the Interior in such manner and at such times and places as he may deem proper, and in the employment of Indian labor as far as possi- ble for the construction of said highway. The Chairman. Senator Shafroth desires to be heard on this item. Senator Shafroth. This is relation to a proposition for a road. The House bill contains a provision for the construction work on the Indian Highway Extension extending from Mesa Verde NationiJ Park to Gallup, N. Mex., on the Navajo Eeservation, $15,000. The Chairman. That has been agreed to. Do you want to reopen I it for. further consideration? Senator Shafroth. Secretary Lane had a letter concerning this. The Chairman. It has been read. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 103 Senator Shafeoth. He says that that road is necessary and is desired very much, not only by the Indians, but also by the general public. Great losses have been sustained Senator Page (interposing). We have agreed to that. Senator Shafeoth. 1 know, but I want to move an amendment. I want to have inserted another amendment for a road which Secre- tary Lane has written would cost $54,253.25. It seems to me that if you are going to build a road for them to use, it ought to be built as soon as possible. I think all of it ought to be built at one time. There are 9,000,000 acres of land down there, which are very fertile. I have no doubt at all of the wisdom of completing this road right away. I am not at all in sympathy with the idea of making an ap- propriation of $15,000 this year, making an appropriation of $15,000 next year, and making an appropriation of $15,000 the year after that. It seems to me that is not an economic way in which to build a road. Senator Page. Can not you make that even money. Senator ? The Chaieman. What is the amount asked for ? Senator Shafeoth. It is $54,253.25. Senator Page. We have been knocking off the odd cents here. Can you not make that even money ? Senator Shafeoth. That is the amount mentioned by the Secretary as the cost of the road, but I have no objection to knocking off the odd cents — 25 cents. In fact, I think $54,000 would be sufficient, if you want to make it even money. The Chairman. I think we ought to make it even money. Senator Shafeoth. Make it $54,000, then. This road is absolutely necessary, and is a road in which I am very much interested. It is necessary down there for the Indians and the traveling pubhc. It runs out there to Mesa Verde National Park, to which there is a good deal of travel and the building of this road will greatly increase the value of the lands of the Indians there. I think it wise to take up that road now and complete it, rather than have it drag along from year to year, finishing it piecemeal. Senator Page. Does this road go into your State ? Senator Shafeoth. Yes, sir; it does. I have been trying for the last three or foiu* years, to get a part of this road constructed. There is an old ruin down there called the Mesa Verde ruin which has a prehistoric interest, and which is visited by a large number of people every year. It is a ruin that has existed from 50,000 to 100,000 years. The people are extinct now, who built the structures of which this Mesa Verde ruin is the remains . There was a book published a number of years ago by a Norwegian in regard to that, and this place has been made a National Park by the Congress of the United States. This road win extend to that and beyond it. We ought to have this road in here. The Secretary says it is necessary, the people down there say it is necessary, and everybody says it is necessary, and the cost is not very great. It seems to me that it ought to be appropriated for and finished, instead of being appropriated for piecemeal and finished in sections. Senator Htjsting. How many miles long is it ? Senator Shafeoth. I think about 60 miles altogether. Senator Htjsting. This will complete the road entirely ? Senator Shafeoth. The entire road, yes. 1Q4 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. The Chairman. Is it wholly on the reservation ? Senator Shafeoth. . It is wholly on the reservation, yes. The Chairman. And the money is to be expended on the reserva- Senator Shafroth. The money is to be expended on the reserva- tion, yes; all of it. Senator Clapp. I move that the item be agreed to. The Chairman. In the absence of objection Senator Curtis (interposing). I object. The Chairman. Do you want to vote now ? Senator Curtis. I am perfectly willing to vote, now. This item is not subject to a point of order, because it was put on in the House, but I am going to oppose it. As I say, by next year you will be appropriating $150,000 to 1200,000, and in five or six years it will be up to $500,000 or $600,000 for this purpose. I do not object t6 $15,000, but it is bad pohcy, I think. I want to go right on record here as objecting to this, and also to serve notice that I am going to oppose all this kind of legislation on the floor. Senator Shafroth. It seems to me that aU these questions relate to matters of improvements down there, and that is for the benefit of the Indians. Secretary Lane thinks this is important and neces- sary, and I do not see any reason, for stretching it out over three or four years when it ought to be completed right away. I think it ought to be finished up immediately. The Chairman. Do you want a roll call? Senator Curtis. No. The Chairman. Then, gentlemen, we will vote on it. All those in favor of the item ? (After a pa.use) : All those against it I (After a pause) : The ayes have it, and it is agreed to. GRAND RONDE AND SILETZ (OREG.) AGENCIES. Senator Lane. Since we have considered that item on page 44 I have ascertained that the Member of Congress from that district, in Oregon has had stricken out on line 18, after the word "be," the words of that sentence ' ' deposited in the Treasury to the credit of said Indians," and inserted "shall be paid share and share alike to the enrolled members of the tribe"; and Mr. Meritt says he has no objection. The Chairman. Do you want that inserted ? Senator Lane. Yes. The Chairman. Is there objection? Without objection it is agreed to. =, Senator Page. What page are you on ? The Chairman. Page 44. i Senator Lane. Insert there "shall be paid share and share alike to the enrolled members of the tribe." Senator Page. They are selling their lands down there. Senator Curtis. Do you want that paid immediately? Senator Lane. As soon as they can get it. . .\ The Chairman. I think the Senator is right about that. Senator Page. How much money will it be ? Senator Lane. It is very small. INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 105 Senator Page. Can you give an approximate amount, whether it- wiU be ten doHars or ten hundred ? Mr. Meritt. Less than $20,000 is involved. The Chairman. How much per capita ? Mr. Meritt. There are about 500 Indians. (The item was agreed to.) KLAMATH INDIAN RESERVATION, MODOC POINT. The next item was as follows : For construction, maintenance, and operation of the Modoc Point irrigation aystem within the Klamath Indian Reservation, in the State of Oregon, $20,000, reimburs- able in accordance with the provisions of the act of March 3, 1911: Provided, That the limit of cost of said project fixed by the act of August 24, 1912, is hereby chaneed from $155,000 to $170,000. & . . j 5. Are you willing to agree to the House appropriation ? Mr. Meritt. We will get along with the House appropriation. The Chairman. Without objection, it is agreed to at 120,000. The next is line 3, page 45. For the construction of two bridges on the Umatilla Indian Reservation, in Oregon, suitable for wagon and other purposes, across the Uma.tilla River, at a limit of coat of $28,000, the first at or near Thorn Hollow Station, the second at or near Mission Sta- tion, the sum of $18,666 is hereby appropriated to be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior and to be reimbursable from any funds now or here^ after placed in the Treasury to the credit of said Indians: Provided, That no part of the money herein appropriated shall be expended until the Secretary of the Interior shall have obtained from the proper authorities of the State of Oregon, or from the countjr of Umatilla, at least one-third of the cost of said bridges, and that the proper authorities of the said State of Oregon or the said county of Umatilla shall assume full responsibility for, afid. agree at all times to maintain and repair, said bridges and con- struct and maintain the approaches thereto: Provided further, That any and all expenses above the amount herein named in connection with the building and main- tenance of said bridges shall be borne by the said State of Oregon or the said county of Umatilla. Senator Page. We have passed that. The Chairman. That is agreed to; yes. Senator Curtis. You say that the item at line 3, page 45, is agreed to ? The Chairman. Yes. Senator, is there any discussion on it ? Senator Lane. There were hearings on it. Mr. Meritt. It was not included in the estimates. Senator Curtis. Will you have that printed in the record ? Mr. Meritt. The department's report on these two bridges is as follows (reading) : Department of the Inteeiob, Washington, January 25, 1916. My Dear Mr. Stephens: Referring to your letter of January 20, 1916, submitting te report H. R. 9418, authorizing the construction of two wagon bridges across the Umatilla River in the Umatilla Indian Reservation, in Oregon, I wish to present the following statements: ,^ ,. , . The Umatilla Ind ian Reservation in the State of Oregon has a total Indian population of 1 153 persons and an acreage of 156,774 acres; 540 of these Indians are allotted, of which number 361 have their land held in trust by the Government, leaving' 613 Indians as yet unallotted. The allotted land consists of 82,444 acres while a tract of 74,330 acres is unallotted. ,■ . ^^ ^^ jw t t, * • The Umatilla River traverses the reservation from east to west for a distance of about 35 miles In that distance it is spanned by only one bridge, which is located afi Cayuse, near the center of the reservation. This bridge was constructed by the- Gov- ernment in the spring of 1910 at a cost of $9,068. 106 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. All the tillable allotted land of the resarvation is adapted to the raising of wheat and it is believed, so far as the growing of wheat is concerned, ranks among the most productive land in the United States. The crop is usually harvested by combined harvesters and headers, and the grain is sacked on the machines in the field. _ The grain is then hauled to the large warehouses which have been erected at Mission, Cayuse, and Thorn Hollow and held until it is sold and then shipped to various coast cities. The railroad station at Cayuse is on the north side of the river and the bridge built there in 1910 is a great aid to the farmers, both Indian and white, living on the south side of the river as they have easy access to the Cayuse rnarkets. Before the bridge was constructed they were compelled to ford the river, which at this point has very steep banks. At Thorn Hollow and Mission the situation is different. The railroad and the ware- houses are south of the river while practically all the wheat land lies to the north. •Each season a large quantity of the grain produced on the reservation is hauled across the river at these points. Diu-ing the harvest seasons of the past small temporary structures have been placed across the river in order to get the grain to the raihoad stations and warehouses. However, for many months_ of each year the high water prevents the use of temporary structures, and the residents of the reservation and adjacent territory can not reach a market of any sort either to obtain supplies or dispose of their produce without making an excessive haul to Cayuse or risking the danger of fording at such times as the high water will permit. In addition to the inconvenience caused to the residents of the reservation, persons living on land outside the reserva- tion find the lack of bridges at these points a great hardship. Added to the traffic of the harvest season there is a great deal of other traffic the entire year. Permanent •bridges at the sites recommended near Thorn Hollow and Mission would therefore serve a large area of both reservation and public grain landi across the river from the markets within the towns, thus accommodating both the Indians and the whites who are engaged in cultivating Indian lands and lands outside the reservation. They would also be of value to the Indians in the leasing of their allotments, enabling the farmers to pay more for the use of the land than would otherwise be the case. ' About 20,000 acres of the Umatilla Reservation wheat land is deeded, and a large part of this patented land is owned by white people who live on the reservation. A large part of the remaining allotted land is leased to white ranchers who live on the Teservation and make use of the roads and bridges therein. The county authorities -urge the construction of the bridges and as an inducement for the Government to ■proceed with the work guarantees to meet a part of the construction cost. They also 'guarantee to maintain the bridges after the construction work is completed, put in the approaches, and repair the roads connecting with the bridges. A similar course was pursued in the case of the bridge erected by the Government at Cayuse in 1910. After the bridge was completed the farmers of the reservation met, erected excellent approaches, and repaired the road leading to the bridge. Soon •'thereafter the County of Umatilla placed a secondary bridge across a small stream to the north of the Cayuse bridge and ever since has maintained the approaches and the roads leading to the bridges. The proposed sites are on the Umatilla Reservation and not on a regularly desig- nated county road. In the fall of 1914 a preliminary survey was made of the sites, and it was estimated the cost would be respectively $16,000 and $13,500. If both were constructed at the same time the total cost would be reduced to $28,000 instead <)f $29,500. Of this amount the county proposes to pay one-third, while ranchers li'ving oft the reservation have stated to the superintendent of the Umatilla School that they ■will each subscribe $100 in cash toward a bridge at Mission, provided the Goverimient will undertake the project. The condition of tribal funds will not justify their use in the work at this time, and if any steps are taken toward doing the work it will be necessary that a special appropriation be made for the purpose. Prom the facta before me I believe that the Indians will receive two-thirds of the benefits to be derived from the construction of the bridges, and I recommend that the bill receive favorable consideration by your committee and the Congress. Cordially, yours, (Signed) Franklin K. La.nb, Secretary. Hon. John H. Stephens, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. Mr. Merritt. The office has received telegrams from the Umatilla Indians objecting to the reimbursable feature of this appropriation. INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 107 The Chairman. Is there any objection to striking out the reimburs- able feature ? Senator Page. I don't know about that. Senator Lane. The Umatilla Indian lands are among the most valuable wheat lands in America. Some years they raise as high as 60 bushels of wheat to the acre. Senator Page. Then why not let them pay ? Senator Lane. AU the money due them has been exhausted and ;the money, I am informed, would have to come out of that belonging to minor heirs. This land is leased to the whites, most of it. The high water up there carries away such temporary structures as they put in across the river, and they have either to ford the river or haiil their products up and down the river to get to the railroad. They want two other bridges 7 or 8 or 9 miles from the existing one. The Chairman. Do you think the reimbursable feature ought to be stricken out ? Senator Lane. If it is going to come out of the minor heirs, I do not see how we can do that. I want the opinion of the department on that. The agent out there is opposed to it. Mr. Meritt. In view of the protest of the Indians as to the reim- bursable feature of this bOl, we have decided that we would Uke to have the language in lines 9, 10, and 11, the reimbursable feature, stricken out. The Chairman. Is there objection ? Senator Page. Are these lands Government lands? Mr. Meritt. As Senator Lane has stated, the lands on the Umatilla Reservation are some of the finest wheat lands in the West. Some of these Indians are in a very good condition. However, they have no tribal funds for paying for the construction of these bridges. This would be a charge upon the funds that might be derived from the sale •of any surplus lands. A good portion of the surplus lands have been disposed of, and most of the reservation is allotted. Senator Lane. Do you want this put through? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; to be paid out of the Treasury as a gratuity appropriation. , Senator Lane. The whites there. Senator Page, who use these bridges are tenants of the Indie ns. They pay rentals ; if they had these bridges they might get a better rental. You say they h£.ve no funds ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Page. I want to see the Indians well treated. If they are able to pay for these bridges out of the added value of their lands I do not want to make it a gratuity appropriation. Senator Lane. There are no surplus lands there ? Mr. Meritt. They have less than $5,000 to their credit. It is pro- posed that $18,000 shall be approprisited by Congress. The other funds will be furnished by the State of Oregon. ' Senator Lane. If the whites are willing to pay their share, and there are some lands to be sold in the future, I am willing to let Senator Page. Prom any funds now or hereafter placed in the Treasury to the credit of the Indians? Mr. Meritt. They have a small amount of tribal lands on this reservation; and if this legislation goes through, when these lands 108 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. are disposed of, these funds advanced by the Government would be reimbursed. But the Indians protest against the reimbursabte feature of the item. . Senator Page. If it is right, I want it. Senator Lane. In spite of their protest, it wiU increase the value, of their lands. It wiU also be equally beneficial to the whites. The construction of these bridges will increase the value of the lands, which are very rich. The Chairman. In the absence of objection, the reimbursable item is stricken out. Senator Page. I object. The Chairman. I want to vote against the feature. We wiU take a vote on it. Ssnator Lane. I think they ought to go share and share alike on that. The Chairman. That would involve a new construction of th© amendment, would it not ? Senator Lane. Yes. Tha Chairman. WiU the county be willing to pay their share? Senator Lane. Yes, the county offers to pay part of it. The Chairman. Let the State pay half. Mr. Meritt. The State will pay about $10,000 under the proposed legislation. Senator Lane. Out of the 128,000 ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. I would make them pay half. The Chairman. Let the amendment be changed. Senator Page. If Senator Lane is willing to have that amendment changed that way so the State will have to pay half and the Federal Treasury will be protected, I am willing. The Chairman. Will you recast the amjendment so the State is to pay $10,000? Senator Lane. I have already done that. The Chairman. And the amendment will be recast? Senator Lane. That is all right, I think. The Chairman. Senator Page, does that meet with your appro- bation 1 Senator Page. I am willing as to the State paying their share, but the reimbursable feature, if it remains in, will have to remain in over my vote. The Chairman. All right. That concludes the argument. The reimbursable feature wQl remain, but the amendment will be recast to-morrow. CARLISLE (pa.) INDIAN SCHOOL. The next item was as follows : For support and education of Indian pupils at the Indian School at Oailisle, Pa:, imeluding superintendents, $132,000; for general repairs and improvements, $20,000; mall, $152,000. Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House, Mr. Chairman. (The item was agreed to.) INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 109 UTAH DETACHED INDIANS. The next item was as follows: "For the support and civilization >f detached Indians in Utah, including pay of employees, $10,000." Mr. Meritt. The House allowed our estimate on that, Mr. Chair- oaan. (The item was agreed to.) UTE INDIANS CONFEDEEATD BAND. The next item was as follows: The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States, within his discretion, the sum of f £00,000 of the principal funds to the credit of the Confederated Bands of Ute Indians and to expend the sum of J50,000 of said amount for the benefit of the Ute Mountain (formerly Navajo Springs) Band of said Indians in Colorado, and the sum of 1200,000 of said amount for the Uintah, White River, and Uncompahgre Bands of Ute Indians in Utah, and the sum 0(f $50,000 of said amount for the Southern Ute Indians in Colorado, which sums shall be charged to said bands, and the Secretary of the Interior is also authorized, to with- draw from the Treasury the accrued interest to and including June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and sixteen, on the funds of the said Confederated Bands of Ute Indians appropriated under the act of March fourth, nineteen hundred and thirteen (Thirty- seventh Statutes at Large, page nine hundred and thirty-four), and to expend or distribute the same for the purpose of promoting civilization and self-support among the said Indians, under such regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior shall report to Congress, on the first Monday in December, nineteen hundred and seventeen, a detailed state- ment as to all moneys expended as provided for herein. Mr. Meeitt. We are satisfied with the amount allowed by the House. The Chairman. That is not a gratuity appropriation ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. (The itein was agreed to.) Senator Page. Ihe other item on page 50 is not a matter of dispute at aU, is it, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. The Chairman. Page 50, line 21, "to carry into effect the provi- sion of article 9 of the treaty of March 2, 1868 (15 Stat. L., p. 619), with the Confederated Baiids of Ute Indians, for furnishing seeds and agricultural implements, the sum of 110,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary." Senator Page. I move that it be agreed to. The Chairman. It is agreed to. Liue 3, page 51: UNCOMPAHGRE, UINTAH, AND WHITE BIVEE UTES. For continuing the construction of lateral distributing systems to irrigate the allotted fends of the Uncompahgre, Uintah, and White River Utes, in Utah, and to maintain existing irrigation systems, authorized under the act of June twenty-flirst, nineteen hundred and six, reimbursable as therein provided, $40,000, to remain available until expended. Senator Page. There is a reimbursable feature there, page 51, line 7. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; the Indians have ample resources to reim- burse the Government. We are satifised with the amount for the construction of laterals on this reservation, but we would hke to have the proviso which was left out, and have it inserted at liue 9, page 51 : Provided That this appropriation shall be used to hold, maintain, and operate said systern so as to_secure to the Indians their paramount rights to so much of the 110 INDIAN APPROPKIATION'- BILL. waters of the Btreams in said reservation as may be needed by them for agricultural and domestic purposes, and to regulate the use, enlargement, and extension of. said system by any person, association, or corporation under the provisions of the act of June twenty-first, nineteen hundred and six (Thirty-fourth Statutes at Large, page three hundred and twenty-five), only upon the acquisition of a right thereto as pro- vided in the act of March first, eighteen hundred and ninety-nine (Thirtieth Statutes at Large, page nine hundred and forty-one). ■ i You will find the justification for this item at page 386 of the House hearings. Senator Page. What do you say about that, Senator Curtis ? Senator Cuetis. I did not hear what it was. Mr. Mekitt. It is for the purpose of protecting the water rights. Senator Page. It is the same as the old featxire we had in the other bill. Senator Cuetis. It is subject to a point of order. Mr. Meritt. It probably is subject to a point of order. The Chaieman. Unfortunately, it wiU lie, I suppose. You can offer it. Mr. Mesitt. It is for the protection of the water rights of those Indians. If a point of order is made and carried, of course, we will; have to submit. Senator Page. I would like to have it go into the bill. The Chairman. In the absence of objection, it is agreed to. ; Senator Cuetis. I reserve the right to object. The Chaieman (interposing) . You have the right. Your objec- tion is in the record. d'wamish and other allied tribes. ^ The next item was as foUows : " For support and civilization of the P'Wamish and other allied tribes in Washington, including pay of employees," $7,000." Ssnator Page. I move that that item be agreed to. (The item was agreed to.) makah tribe. - The next item was: "For support and civilization of the Makahs, including pay of employees, $2,000." Senator Page. I move that that item be agreed to. (The item was agreed to.) QUI-NAI-ELTS. The next item was: "For support and civilization of Qui-nai-elt?- and QuU-leh-utes, including pay of employees, $1,000." '■ Senator Page. I move that that item be agreed to. (The item was agreed to.) YAKIMA AGENCY. The next item was : " For the support and civilization of Indians at Yakima Ageficy, including pay of employees, $3,000." . . Senator Page. I move that that item be agreed to. (The item was agreed to. ) INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. IH COLVILLE, TAHOLAH, PUYALLUP, AND SPOKANE AGENCIES. The next item was : The Chairman. No; I think this is to devise a plan of action. Senator Owen. The real point of this is the commitment to irrigate 150,000 acres, which wiU cost in the neighborhood of some $4,000,000 or 15,000,000 ? The Chaieman. I will state further I have a report from the de- partment; it is only 10 days old — on a bill which I introduced open- mg the reservation, on which they declined to make a favorable re- port and said, "We are not in favor of it." , T V Senator Owen. Would all this 150,000 acres belong to the Indian tribe there ? i, i txt i The Chairman. The Indians have been allotted. We only propose to sell the unallotted, surplus portions. . t. u , Senator Owen. It is really an irrigation project; it should not be regarded as an Indian project at all, as I understand it, because it is reaUy an irrigation project, involving 150,000 acres. I am in favor of irrigation of those western lands, and m favor of the Government making those advances, but I do not beheve the Indian biU is the proper place to do that. ,. ^ ■ u The Chairman. This $10,000, you understand, was gathered m by the Indian Office. 188 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. Senator Owen. The point is you are opening up an irrigation project involving the expenditure of $3,000,000 or $4,000,000 on the Indian bill. The Chairman. I do not gather such from the language. Senator Owen (reading). "That the Secretary of the interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to expend not exceeding $10,000 from the proceeds derived from the sale of town lots," etc. The Chaikman. Expended for what purpose? (Reading:) "For the investigation and survey and the preparation of maps, plans, and specifications for the utHization of the reserved rights to water from the Colorado River for the irrigation of approximately 150,000 acres." Senator Owen. What does that imply? The Chairman. I do not think that will commit Congress or this' committee or the department to the construction of this dam or reservoir, especially when only 10 days ago they said they were not going to do it. Senator Owen. Who said they were not going to do it? The Chairman. The Secretary of the Interior said they were not going to do it. Senator Owen. Not going to sell the lands ? The Chairman. Not going to have an irrigation project there. Senator Owen. Then why expend money to make the survey? The Chairman. Understand, Senator, settlers came from all over the West and bought town lots there and built houses. They paid their money, they got their patents. Are we going to leave between Scylla and Charybdis forever, or are we going to have an investigation and say what shall or ought to be done ? Senator Owen. It does not seem to me that the Indian bill is the proper place to make an adjustment of their equities. Senator Lane. There are about 4,500 acres belonging to Indians, as I understand it there, are there not ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. Then 145,000 more are left ? The Chairman. One hundred and fifty thousand acres, Senator. Senator Lane. One hundred and fifty thousand acres, and if you spend the Indians' money to investigate The Chairman. No; 1 beg your pardon. Senator Lane. Well, from the sale of their lots, do you not ? Senator Page. Why is it not their money ? The Chairman. I could not in justice to those people permit the committee to be uninformed of the situation, but if there is the slightest objection on the part of any Senator I will gladly withdraw it. - Senator Ow;en. I move that it be withdrawn. Mr. Meritt. Right in that connection we would like to have incorporated on page 14, line 23, after the word "expended" the following: "Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby authorized, to expend not exceeding $50,000 from the proceeds from the sale of town lots on the Colorado River Reservation arising under the act of April thirtieth, nineteen hundred ■ and eight (Thirty-fifth Statutes at Large, page seventy -seven), for continuing con- struction of said pumping plant, together with the necessary canals and laterals for the utilization of water in connection therewith. In justification of that item I invite your attention to the hearings on page one hundred and sixty. It is proposed to enlarge the pumping plant now on the Colorado River Reservation. Under existing law we have allotted all Indians now living on the Colorado River Reservation ten acres of land each. We are also required to allot INDIAN APPEOPKJATION BILL. 189 other Indians living within the Colorado River Valley on that reservation. There are probably one thousand five hundred of these Indians, and we have not a sufficient pumping plant there so we can irrifjate the additional land that is necessary to allot the Indians who are entitled to allotments on that reservation. There are about two hundred and forty thousand acres of land on this reservation, and quite a largo acreage is irrigable. This is not a project for the benefit of white people, but solely for the benefit of the Indians, who are entitled to allotments on that reservation. Senator Page. This is the same reservation referred to in lines 13 to 23? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; Colorado River Reservation. Senator Page. In what respect does your new amendment differ from the one which is in the biU ? Mr. Meritt. The bill simply provides for the maintenance and operation of .the present pumping plant and the construction of the laterals. This amendment offered, which was in our estimates, pro- vides for an additional pumping plant on that reservation so as to irrigate additional lands for the benefit of the Indians who are en- titled to reserve allotments on that reservation. Senator Owen. What is your proposed amendment to that language on page 14 ? Mr. Meritt. It is — Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to expend not exceeding $50,000 from the proceeds from the salp of town lots on the Colorado River Reservation, arising under the act of April thirtieth, nineteen hundred and eight (Thirty-fifth Statutes at Large, page seventy-seven), for continuing con- struction of said pumping plant, together with the necessary canals and laterals for the utilization of water in connection therewith. Senator Owen. To be inserted where ? Mr. Meritt. After the word "expended," line 23, page 14. Senator Owen. You are increasing that from $15,000 to $50,000 ? Senator Page. From $15,000 to $65,000. Senator Owen. Why did the House reject that ? Mr. Meritt. I suppose it was because there was some conflict between this item and the item just suggested by Senator Ashurst. This is purely an Indian proposition. Senator Owen. That is $65,000 estimated for ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. And the House reduced it to $15,000? Mjc. Meritt. The House allowed us $15,000 for maintenance of the present plant and declined to give us the amount for the construc- tion of the additional pumping plant. If I remember correctly, this went out on the floor of the House. The Chairman. On a pomt of order made by Mr. Borland; yes. This is an appropriation out of the funds derived from the sale of town lots, is it not ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. Is it money of the Indians ? Mi. Meritt. Yes, sir. . , t i- q Senator Page. Is it any less money of the Indians i The Chairman. I think you are right. Senator Page. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; it was derived from the sale of their prop- erty Of course the white people in that town claimed that matters have been represented to them in this way: That they bought lots in the town of Parker with the understanding that eventually the reservation would be opened and that probably a big 190 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. Senator Owen. That an irrigation plant would be established there? Mr. Meritt. That an irrigation plant would be established there and that probably there would be over 100,000 acres of land irri- gated which would boom the town of Parker. Is that correct, Mr. Chairman ? The Chairman. Yes; that is a very correct statement, I think. Senator Lane. What size were the allotments made to the Indians? Mr. Meritt. Ten acres. Senator Lane. They had plenty of land. Why did you not give them larger allotments ? Mr. Meritt. Because. 10 acres of irrigable land are ample for Senator Lane. A family ? Mr. Meritt. An Indian can make a living on 10 acres of irrigable land. We give each Indian 10 acres, which means 40 or 50 acres to a family, and they wiU have for sale probably 20 acres at least, be- cause they will not need over 20 acres of irrigable land for a family. That land is very productive and very valuable when irrigated. The commissioner is very much interested in this appropriation and urged that I do everything possible to get it in the bill. Senator Pittman. Is there any other way of getting this land under cultivation; that is, getting it irrigated except through this fund? Mr. Meritt. It is the only feasible plan at this time. Of course it could be irrigated from a large diversion dam, which would cost millions of dollars. Senator Pittman. That would have to be a Government project, Would it not ? Mr. Meritt. That would probably be a Government irrigation project; yes, sir. The Chairman. There is a snow-fed river which runs through there, and in June the river reaches its highest tide ; an enormous amount of, water goes by in May and June. The water is low the rest of the year. Senator Owen. There were first some international complications. The river forms a boundary liae, not only between a couple of States, but also between a part of Mexico and the United States, so some treaty rights have intervened. Moreover, the Laguna project was constructed there at Yuma some 50 years ago, and the Government fears (I think they are wrong in their apprehension about it), but the Government fears a diversion of water at Parker might lessen the whole of the Laguna project at Yuma, and the Imperial Valley country, and that aroused the interest of our California Representa- tives and they are not very friendly, perhaps, toward appropriations for work here. Moreover, the Colorado River has to be treated as a whole; you can not subdivide it, because it rises in the State of Wy- oming, flows into Colorado, and out into Utah and into Arizona; and so many States are interested there it has been almost impossible to get any consideration of a project at Parker. Senator Pittman. There is very little hope then of irrigation of this land through any Governmental action ? The Chairman. I fear so. Senator. I regretfully state that I think I am blocked at every turn. I concede that in all good nature. Senator Page. Is it not true, speaking generally, that the whites in the different States have come to this Indian Committee and in- INDIAN" APPEOPEIATION BILL. 191 duoed them to pay out very large sums of money for irrigation pur- P^ses, reimbursable, thereby I suppose becoming a mortgage upon the Indians' lands, where if they proved unsuccessful the poor In- dians had to suffer the loss ? The Chairman. Outside of the act under discussion, I know of no other instance, Senator. Senator Page. As I understand it in Montana that has been the case. The Chairman. Some question has been made about the act of 1907 in Montana. Senator Pittman. There is quite a dispute over that; it is not admitted by any means. The Chairman. That is the only one in dispute that I know of. Senator Pittman. It is not admitted that there has been any great disadvantage to the Indians in that project. Senator Page. But it is now claimed by you gentlemen of the West, who want to have the States control the water, that if the Indians do not make beneficial use of the water within a certain time that our treaty rights with the Indians become as nothing, and the whites may divert the water — Senator Pittman. I think the position taken by the Western Senators is hardly correctly expressed by the Senator from Vermont. The same object that is moving the Western Senators with regard to the white people there, is moving in regard to the Indian people there, that is as far as I know, and that is to bring under cultivation all the land that the little water we have out there will do, and to treat all of the parties alike in the matter; not to permit any waste either by the Indians or by the white people, and that is the theory so far as I know it. Of course in our State,, where we have so little water, we have got to do those things. Senator Page. The treaty rights of Montana Indians; that is, of some tribes, I do not know as to the Blackfeet, or whether it is some other tribe — the treaty rights as established by the Winters case seem to be perfectly clear to a man who is not a la,wyer, and that is that by implication the Indians were to have the right to use as much water as tney needed to irrigate their lands. Now, the State of Montana says, "We insist that our law which gives the beneficial use to the man who first applies shall take precedence to those treaty rights." That is, as I understand it. Senator. I may be wrong, but that is the best I can get out of a careful study of it. Senator Pittman. I do not know how the Senators from Montana view that decision, but I know the policy of the Senators, as far as I have talked with Senator Walsh and others, is simply the height of development by both Indians and white people of the land. Senator Page. The Indians have to take the risk and furnish the money. Another point I want to suggest to you, that this committee probably devoted, I do not know how much time, but I might say months to a discussion of that project. It now comes up for con- sideration, and instead of coming to our Committee on Indian Affau-s, it goes to what committee ? . Senator Owen. Public Lands. , ^ .^^ The Chairman. No, it goes to the Committee on Appropriations. It was in the estimates made by the Secretary of the Interior. The 192 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. Secretary did not estimate the Montana project on the Indian bill at all. The estimate was made on the sundry civil bill. f^ Senator Page. That may be all right. I am not questiomng that at all. But it is a matter to which this committee has given weeks and months of study, and is now being taken away from us and referred to the Appropriation Committee. That committee may know all about it, and it may not. I was rather surprised to see it go to that committee, but I made no question about it. Senator Owen. I did not know it had been done. Mr. Meeitt. The Secretary did that for this reason, I think I should state here: Those irrigation projects in Montana are as much for the benefit of the white people as for the Indians, and we thought it was unfair to the Indian Service to include in the Indian bill irri- fation projects that were for the benefit of white people and thus eep the appropriations that are more urgent for the Indian Service down to a very low point. Senator Lane. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs recommended it then « Mr. Mekitt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. I agree with him entirely, it is more a matter for the benefit of the whites than for the Indians. Senator Owen. I want to give notice that on Wednesday at 11.30 I wish to move the reconsideration of the resolution in regard to the Osages. The Chairman. That motion is entered. Senator Lane. I give notice that at the first opportunity I am going to call for the consideration of my resolution, method of disposal The Chairman. Having disposed partly of Arizona we now have before us Oklahoma. Senator Owen, do you wish to take up Okla- homa at this time ? Senator Owen. I have no objection. Mr. Meritt. May we have this item ? Is it wholly for the benefit of the Indians ? The Chairman. Is there any objection to that item ? There is no objection ana it is agreed to. What do you want to do with Oklahoma? Senator Owen. Can we not go on this afternoon ? Senator Page. I move that we take a recess until 2 o'clock p. m. (Thereupon, at — o'clock and — minutes, recess was taken until 2 o'clock p. m.) AFTER RECESS. The committee reassembled at 2 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the takirg of a recess. Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. The Chairman. The committee will please come to order. The first item is Oklahoma, page 32, as follows: OKLAHOMA. Sec. 17. For support and cmlization of the Wichitas and affiliated bands who have been collected on the reservations set apart for their use and occupation in Oklahoma, including pay of employees, $5,000. INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 193 Estimate $5,000, House agreed to $5,000. Without objection it is agreed to. Senator Lane. Just a moment. It is coming too swift to suit me. We are here in continual session from morning to night without a quorum part of the time. These items are of interest to all of us, and while I think that may be all right, yet some of the items in there (the bill) should be considered. 1 have no objection if it is all right. The Chairman. This is for the support and civilization of the Wichitas and affiliated bands. Senator Lane. I will suggest the absence of a quorum, if we are not given time to consider these items. The Chairman. Senator Lane is within his rights. We will stop consideration of the bill if he wishes to make flie point, but these items are all items which have been agreed to by the House. Senator Lane. But we are here every day, and we have other committee meetings and are not always able to attend this, and I want just reasonable time to consider these items, and I am going to demand it hereafter. Senator Owen. This item was appropriated for before and it is approved by the House. Senator Lane. I do not doubt it at all. Senator Owen. What page of the hearings is it on ? Ml*. Meeitt. On page 290 of the House hearings. Senator Lane. The Wichitas ? Senator Owen. The Wichitas and associated bands. Let us take the time necessary to understand it. I do not want any member of the committee to feel Senator Page. This is mainly for the maintenance of your office ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. What page of the House hearings does it appear on ? Mr. Meeitt. On page 290. This is the same amount as carried for several years for this item and it is in accordance with the estimates of the department. Senator Owen. Might this item be confirmed as the House has it ? The Chairman. That is agreed to. KIOWA COMANCHE AND APACHES. The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of 130,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the funds on deposit to the credit of the Kiowa Comanche, and Apache Tribes of Indians in Oklahoma, for the support of the agency and pay of employees maintained for their benefit. Mr. Meeitt. The justification for that is found on page 291 of the House hearings. This is the appropriation which provides for the administrative work of the Kiowa agency. Senator Owen. I move the approval of the House estimate, if there is no objection. i. i • i ■ Senator Lane. I will object to that, but go ahead with it. The Chaieman. It is agreed to. The next item is on page 33, as foUows: That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to withdraw from the Treasury of the United States, at his discretion, the sum of $250,000, or so much thereof as n4v be necessary, of the funds on deposit to the credit of the Kiowa, Coman- che and Apache Tribes of Indians in Oklahoma, and pay out the same for the benefit of tiie members of said tribes for their maintenance and support, and improvement 194 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. of their homesteads, for the ensuing year, in such manner and under such regulations as he may prescribe: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior shall report to Congress on the first Monday ia December, nineteen hundred and seventeen, a detailed statement as to all moneys expended as provided for herein. That is agreed to. Senator Lane. What page is that on ? _ Senator Owen. On page 33, and the justification will be found on page 292. Senator Page. I see you say here the Indians have between $3,000,000 and $4,000,000 ? Mr. Mbritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. And you take this $250,000 from this fund, do you? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. There are 3,190 Indians under this agency. They have between $3,000,000 and $4,000,000 in the Treasury and we think it only fair that we withdraw at least a small part of that money so they may get the benefit of it while they are living. Senator Lane. Is that used mostly for salaries or mostly for the Indians "i Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; every dollar of this money goes to the Indians. Senator Lane. You ought to have a halo around that item. Senator Owen (reading) : CHETENNES AND ARAPAHOES. For support and civilization of the Cheyennes and Arapahoes who have been col- lected on the reservations set apart for their use and occupation in Oklahoma, includ- ing pay of employees, $35,000. What page is that explained on? Mr. Meritt. Page 293 of the House hearings. We have 2,773 Indians under this agency. This is the amount which has been appropriated for several years for the administrative expenses of that agency. Senator Owen. Are there any objections ? The Chairman. That is agreed to. The next item is page 33, line 22: KANSAS INDIANS IN OKLAHOMA. For support and civilization of the Kansas Indians, Oklahoma, including pay of employees, $1,500. Without objection that is agreed to. Have you anything else, Senator Owen ? Senator Owen (reading): KICKAPOOS IN OKLAHOMA. For support and civilization of the Kickapoo Indians in Oklahoma, including pay of employees, $2,000. Estimated for and allowed by the House. Senator Lane. What became of the other Kickapoos who were up here last year ? Mr. Meritt. Some of them are in Mexico and others in Oklahoma under the Shawnee Agency. Senator Lane. How do you segregate them? Does any of this go to the Mexican Indians ? " Mr. Meritt. No, sir; this money goes to the Indians in Oklahoma. The justification is found on pages 294 and 295 of the House hear- ings. This is the same amount that has been appropriated for several years. The Chairman. That is agreed to. INDIAN" APPEOPEIATION BILL. 195 Senator Owen (reading) : . For support and civilization of the Ponca Indians in Oklahoma and Nebraska, including pay of employees, $8,000. Eight thousand dollars estimated for and allowed by the House committee, and explained on page 295 of the hearings. I move the adoption of the item. The Chalrman. It is agreed to. Senator Owen (reading) : For support and education of five hundred Indian pupils at the Indian school at Chilocco, Oklahoma, including pay of superintendent, $86,250; for general repairs and improvements, $7,000; in all, $93,250. The amount was estimated for and was agreed to by the House committee, and the explanation of it appears on pages 296 and 297. Senator Page. Is that a successful school, as you understand it ? .Senator Owen. Yes; I think it is a very good school, indeed. I have been out there and examined it. It has quite a fine reserva- tion and has good buildings. Senator Page. Do you think it is being run satisfactorily ? Senator Owen. Yes; I do. I think it is being run very well. They have a considerable amount of agricultural training there, and I thmk it is getting along very well. What is your opinion of that, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. I consider it one of the very best schools in the Indian Service. It is located near one-third of the Indians of the United States. We are teaching the Indians there industrial pur- suits. We have a farm of more than 8,000 acres. Part of that farm is being leased; part of it is beiag used by the Indian pupils. Senator Lane. How does it compare with Chemawa? Mr. Meritt. It is a much better school than Chemawa. The Chairman. Without objection it is agreed to. Senator Owen. I want to call the attention of the committee to the Women's Board of Domestic Missions, who, in the appropriation bUl a year ago, asked for $10,000 to reimburse the board for build- ings which they erected on the Fort Sill Military Reserve. The Chairman; If you wiU pardon me, that has been adopted by the committee. Senator Owen. It has been adopted ? The Chairman. Yes, sir; it was in the bill last year, as you will see. $10,000 was the appropriation, was it? Senator Owen. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. Has it been adopted this year ? The Chairman. Yes; it has been adopted. Do you want it put inthebiU? , ,_ Senator Owen. Yes; I want it in the bill. The Chairman. I think we have adopted it. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; it was adopted two days ago. ihere was a lady here who was very much interested in it. Senator Owen. Where is it to appear m the bill? Mr. Meritt. It is to appear on page 35, alter line 3 ot tJie bill. Senator Lane. It was not in the Jbill. , .^ ^ , , Mr Meritt. We estimated for it, but it was left out, went out on the floor of the House on a point of order, I believe. It is a very deserving item. Senator Lane. I think it is. 196 INDIAN APPEOl'EIATION BILL. Senator Owen. Page 34, line 7 (reading) : For fulfilling treaties with Pawnees, Oklahoma: For perpetual annuity, to be paid in cash to the Pawnees (article three, agreement of November twenty-third, eighteen hundred and ninety-two), $30,000; for support of two manual labor schools (article three, treaty of September twenty-fourth, eighteen hundred and fifty-seven), 110,000; for pay of one farmer, two blacksmiths, one miller, one engineer and apprentices, and two teachers (article four, same treaty), $5,400; for purchase of iron and steel and other necessaries for the shops (article fourj same treaty), $500; for pay of physician and pur- chase of medicines, $1,200; in all, $47,100. The estimate was for $47,000, allowed by tlie committee of the House and explained on page 299 in the House hearings. Senator Lane. What do you do there 1 Mr. Meeitt. This is a treaty item. We are simply asking for an appropriation to carry out the provision of the existing treaties. Senator Lane. Do you carry them out ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. Do you actually have one mUler ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; we are authorized under the law to divert those funds for the other purposes where it is not needed to employ the miller under the treaty. Senator Owen (reading) : For support of Quapaws, Oklahoma: For education (article three, treaty of May thirteenth, eighteen hundred and thirty-three), 11,000; for blacksmith and assistants, and tools, iron, and steel for blacksmith shop (same article and treaty), $500; in all, $1,500: Provided, That the President of the "United States shall certify the same to be for the best interests of the Indians. Senator Lane. I should like to ask Mr. Meritt about that. What is the use of a blacksmith ? There is not the same use they had for them in the early days when they had a blacksmith to shoe horses, to mend wagons, etc., is there? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. I think there is a general statute by which they are permitted to divert that. Senator Lane. You divert that ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. For what ? Mr. Meeitt. For such purposes as we deem foic the best interests of the Indians. Senator Lane. What purposes do you deem their best interests? Mr. Meeitt. I think the most of this appropriation is used for educational purposes. The Chaieman. Is there any further discussion of the item? If not, it wiU be agreed to. Senator Owen. Then, the following item: That the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Company be, and is hereby authorized to reconstruct its line of railroad through the Chilocco Indian School Reser- vation in the State of Oklahoma to eliminate, where necessary, existing heavy grades and curves, and for such purpose to acquire the necessary right of way, not exceeding two hundred feet in width, subject to the approval of the Secretary of tiie Interior and to the payment for the land so taken and occupied by such new right of way of such an amoimt as may be determined by the Secretary of the Interior to be fair and adequate compensation therefor, including all damage which may be caused by tie reconstruction of said line of railroad to adjoining lands, crops, and other impriive- ments, said amount to be paid to the Secretary of the Interior for the use and benefit of the Chilocco Indian School. I suppose there is no objection to that? The Chaieman. That was in the bill last year, it was agreed to by the conferees, and was in the bUl that failed. INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 197 Senator Lane. I do not know anything about it. Senator Owen. Th^y just let them run their line straight. Is that all right ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. Senator Owen (reading) : Sec. 18. For expenses of administration of the affairs of the Five Civilized Tribes, Oklahoma, and the compensation of employees, 1175,000. Now, Mr. Chairman, I want to call the committee's attention to this matter. Here is a case where the administration of the affairs of these individual Indians in Oklahoma has involved a constantly increasing tax and care. The United States is undertaking to admin- ister the estates of every individual who is under restriction, and those lands are under oil lease, and the Government has got to look after it — ^has got to see that the conditions of the lease are carried out; that the funds are collected from those leases. They must deal with the individual Indian in giving his proportion of that fund; they must invest the money by lending it out upon securities, etc., and instead of the work there diminishing, as I think it ought to have done, under the pohcy which the Government has adopted it has steadily increased. Last year, under the general resolution which we passed, they were compelled to very drastically cut down the employees there and leave that work indifferently done. I think Mr. Meritt is probably well acquainted with that matter, and I should like to have him advise the committee as to it. I think that should be substantially enlarged. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, the amount heretofore appropriated for administrative expenses has been approximately $250,000 the last few years. Prior to that it was a much larger sum. We have been gradually reducing this amount. Last year we cut it down to $175,000, and the two offices were consolidated, the office of super- intendent of the Union Agency* with the office of Commissioner of the Five Civilized Tribes. As a result of the material reduction of $75,000 in the appropriation it was necessary to lay off a number of employees the last month of the fiscal year. We find it very diffi- cult to get along with the amount, $175,000, and we would be glad if the committee would allow us $200,000. Senator Gbonna. Where is your justification for that, Mr. Meritt ? On what page wiU that be found ? Mr. Meeitt. On page 328 of the House hearings. If we were allowed $200,000 for this item it would enable us to expedite business at that agency, keep the work of the office up to date, and we would also not be compelled to lay off deserving employees near the close of the fiscal year because of lack of funds. Senator Lane. You have an addition, somebody said in the House hearing of $85,000 for probate attorneys, have you not ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; that is another appropriation. Senator Owen. That is a different matter. Senator Lane. No ; it is the same thmg. Senator Owen. It is on the next page. Senator. Senator Lane. I understand it is the same thmg. It is on the same item, is it not ? 198 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. That is a separate item, Senator. Those employees are looking after the Indian probate matters. Senator Owen. Minors ? Senator Lane. It is in the same connection? Mr. Meeitt. It is under the same superintendency. Senator Owen. I think we could very substantially diminish these appropriations if we would adopt a poUcy by which those Indians who are competent were given their liberty, and would take them out from under the administration of their private affairs by the Government of the United States. It is quite a serious task to undertake the administration of 25,000 or 35,000 individual estates, and it is almost an impossible task. A good many of these Indians, I do not know what proportion — I should say probably one-half of them — are just as ^ capable of attending to their business as citizens elsewhere, notwith- standing the fact they are fuU-blood Indians. Senator. Geonna. I will say, Senator Owen, that the amendment which I proposed providing that the Indians on the Fort Berthold Reservation, the competent Indians, should be. allowed to handle their own affairs; that was incorporated in this bill this morning. Now, it seems to me Senator Owen. Oh, yes. Senator; provision might be applied to these five tribes and we could substantially reduce this appropriation then. Senator Geonna. Why should that not be done? Senator Owen. There is no reason why it should not de done; it simply has not been done. We have been digressing along without doing it, is all. Do you not think that would be right, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; I think every competent Indian in the Five Civilized Tribes should have his pro rata share of the funds deposited in the Treasury to the credit of those Indians. Senator Owen. Another great expense of the administration of the affairs of the Five Civilized Tribes, which I happen to know about; that is to say, if the superintendent down there should make a loan of $2,000 of some of these funds in his hands, he sends out appraisers and gets the views of the neighborhood, determines the value, and he loans it on one-half of the appraised value, we will say. After he disposes of that and takes evidence, etc., then that matter, instead of being disposed of by him, is sent up to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs' office, where the clerks mull that thing over and say, "That is all right," or say they do not like something about it — somebody failed to cross a " t " or dot an " i." If they do not find that somebody failed to cross a "t" or dot an "i," then it goes over to the office of the Secretary of the Interior, and three sets of clerks have to pass on that matter at the expense of the United States. Now, a wiser adminis- tration, it seems to me, would be to provide for appeals against the action of the superintendent in charge, and if he fails to administer the office there with efficiency and with integrity, put him out. We have inspectors for the special purpose of supervising the administra- tion of local officers. But to have this work done over by three differ- ent sets of people is costing the Treasury of the United States a very large sum and an unnecessarily large sum. The right to appeal will take care of errors made by local officers ? INDIAK APPBOPEIATION BILL. 199 Senator Geonna. Suppose we refer to Calendar No. 108, Senator Uwen, and see how that language there would suit you. Of course, that would have to be changed. Senator Owen. Yes • it is all right, but it does not provide, it seems, for the method by which to determine the question of competency. I think that the superintendent in charge could determine the ques- ^^^^ of competency, perhaps, by the cooperation of some man in the field who would personally see these persons. Do you not have people in the field there who are paid for out of this bill ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. What do you call them ? Mr. Meritt. They are called field clerks. Senator Owen. Do they see these Indians in person ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. Could you not rely on their report and the action of the commissioner down there ? Mr. Meritt. Legislation on the statute books now requires the Secretary of the Interior to pass on the competency of Indians. Senator Owen. I know; I think it ought to require the signature of the President of the United States. I do not see how that was overlooked. The President ought to pass upon those matters. He has not anything to do much, and neither has the Secretary. Obvi- ously that is merely the passing upon this matter by some of the clerks of the Interior Department, is it not? Is that not reaUy the truth ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; very largely. Senator Owen. The substantial truth ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. Therefore it simply means sending this work, doing it over and over again; it is multiplication of this labor at the expense of the Government of the United States. Senator Gronna. Do you not also think, Senator Owen, that it would be an incentive, a sort of stimulant to these Indians to be allowed to transact their own business ? Senator Owen. Why, Senator, you can take a white man and put him on a monthly pension and make him lazy and make him indif- ferent. You take from him the incentive, you take from him the iaitiative when you put him under a departmental clerk and furnish him $10 a month out of his own funds. Senator Geonna. I believe that is true. Senator Owen. I have spoiled several young white men that way, in a friendly spirit, trying to take care of them. I ]ust furnished them with means along, and I found it ruined every one I tried to deal with that way. Senator Gronna. I beheve that is true. The Chairman. They only appreciate what they earn in every de- partment of life. Senator Owen. I think that is true of every human bemg. Senator Gronna. After an Indian is competent he ought to be thrown on his own resources. I beheve it would do more good than giving him money. Take old Wilson Jones, who was the Choctaw chief He was a full-blood Indian but was worth something like $200,000. He made it himself, yet he is incompetent— he would be under this bill. 200 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. The Chairman. What would be your amendment or suggestion, Senator, for the language here? Senator Owen. I would suggest a provision that the superin- tendent of the Five Civihzed Tribes be authorized to determine the competency of Indians and discharge them from this rule of incom- petency which now prevails generally as against these people of blood. At present any person of that blood is made incompetent, no matter whether he is a thoroughly capable man or not. Those men are practiciag law down there and are practicing medicine, some of them. They are full-blooded Indians, yes; they might be full-blood Chinese, but ought not to be made incompetent because of the character of their blood. Senator Gronna. I think it is absolutely indefensible to say that men who are in that position, such as the Senator has described, should be compelled to be under the jurisdiction of anybody but themselves. Senator Owen. It is humiliating. I, myself, was under the con- dition of incompetency there just a short time ago. I was capable of being a Senator of the United States and able to write the Federal reserve act, but I was under incompetency under this law. What kind of a statute is that? Obviously, it is contemptible and is mischievous. Senator Gronna. I should say I would be very glad to vote to change that if the Senator will draw his amendment. Senator Page. What particular part of the bill or measure are you now discussing ? Senator Owen. This expenditure of money on page 37, $175,000, and I was just pointing out how the expenditure of this money could be diminished very much instead of being, increased by the circum- stance that our officials down there are compelled under the law to administer the private affairs of some 30,000 full-blood Indians, to look after their estates, lease their lands, collect their rents, pay their money out, invest their money, etc. I was suggesting we could diminish this appropriation in the future by authorizing me Govem- ment officers down there to release those who were competent and who proved competency, from the present general rule of incompe- tency on the basis of blood. Senator Lane. Have you provided an amendment ? Senator Owen. No. Senator Lane. But you will ? Senator Owen. Yes. I would be glad to draw an amendment. Senator Gronna. I suggest that Senator Owen and the commis- sioner be authorized to draw such a bill. Senator Owen. I shall be glad to get together with the commis- sioner and we will draw such an amendment. Senator Page. How much distribution does that make ? Senator Owen. This is not a distribution at all; it is the pay of the employees who are now looking after the affairs of the Indian people. Senator Page. As I understand it, you would propose to distribute their funds to them ? Senator Owen. No; it has got nothing to do with the distribution; it simply provides for competency, so as to take them out from under the rule of the so-called restricted class. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 201 Senator Geonna. It takes $175,000 for the white man to transact the business for the Indians. Senator Owen. For administrative purposes. Senator Geonna. It is merely that the competent Indians may transact their own business. That is what we are discussing, and I am heartily in favor of it. Senator Owen. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs says that heretofore we have had $260,000 appropriated for that purpose. Instead of it being cut down as much as this he thinks they can not possibly administer it for $175,000, and asks for $200,000. Senator Page. It was $175,000 last year, had we passed the bill, the same as it is this year. Senator Owen. Yes; but they are confined; they can not admin- ister the duties which are imposed by the statute with $175,000, and are asking $200,000, with the right to use $10,000 of it immediately. Senator Geonna. I find on pages 328-329 of the hearings that there was $175,500.38 used. In other words, last year's account win be overdrawn $500.38. Senator Owen. Yes; and he dismissed 103 employees to do it, too. Senator Geonna. I will ask for information. Suppose we adopt an amendment such as has been suggested, Senator Owen, do you hot think the work could be done with the number of employees they now have, providing the competent Indians were permitted to trans- act their own business ? Senator Owen. I rather think that might be done if they were. What do you think about that, Mr. Meritt ? Do you think you could get that system in operation in time ? This does not begin until the - first of July, does it ? Mr. Meritt. We want $10,000 of that additional made immedi- ately available. Senator Owen. If you should release these competent Indians from these restrictions, you would not require the $200,000, would you? Mr. Meeitt. We probably would for the next year. I might say that Congress has heretofore removed the restrictions on practically two-thirds of the Indians in the Five CivUized Tribes, and we now have it reduced from about 100,000 Indians down to 35,000 who are under the jurisdiction of the Interior Department. The trouble in the Five Civilized Tribes to my mind is that we are required stUl to retain the tribal funds and property of Indians who have heretofore had their restrictions removed. If those people could get their share Senator Owen. Their pro rata fund ? , p , , Mi. Meeitt. Their pro rata share of the tribal funds and property and go their way without having further interest in the tribal property, that would be desirable. i , i j. Senator Owen. That would save you a good deal ot expense, would it not? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. ,,,,,,-, im- i. u ^ Senator Owen. Why should that not be done. Why should not the people who are competent have their proportionate part of this matter and go their way? , ,, , , t-^ . . • , Mr Meeitt I think that should be done. It is my opinion, how- ever that there are not very many of the 35,000 who should receive absolute fee title to their land at this time. 202 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. Senator Owen. Why could we not leave the land restricted and give them their liberty otherwise ? Those who are competent, would you want them to remain restricted still ? Mr. Mbeitt. No, sir; we want every competent Indian to have his property and go his way without further jurisdiction by the Interior Department. Senator Page. How large an amount is there for distribution pro- viding you do what you propose 1 Mr. Meeitt. This bill carries Senator Owen. $300 to the Choctaws and $200 to the Chickasaws, is it not ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Is that not the proposition we have had here so much, Senator Owen ? Senator Owen. That is the item on which they have brought up the question of reopening the rolls. They have tried to present that appropriation as a means of extorting an agreement to reopen the rolls. We have not been willing to do that because the rolls were closed eight years ago by Congress. Senator Page. I remember that matter. We had a good deal of discussion about it. Senator Owen. They thrashed that out this time over in the House, and the House overwhelmingly voted it down. The Chaieman. About three to one. Senator Owen. They tried to hang it up again and the House overwhelmingly voted it down, so that now I think the contest is substantially ended. The Chaieman. You and Mr. Meritt will prepare this amendment then? Senator Owen. Yes. Mr. Meeitt. I would be glad if Senator Owen would take up this amendment with Commissioner Sells. Senator Owen. Could you not make this $175,000 as it is now, and provide $10,000 additional to be immediately available? Senator Lane. Where is that ? Senator Owen. On page 37, at the top of the page. Senator Lane. Why do they want the $10,000? Mr. Meeitt. Congress is about to authorize the per capita payment to the Choctaws and the Chickasaws, and we are now preparing to make a per capita payment to the Cherokees. This will create quite a large amount of additional work and we have not heretofore had funds to carry aU the employees at this agency. We had to suspend a number of them the last of the fiscal year. Senator Geonna. The distribution of any of these payments would be a matter of expense here in Washington, would it not ? It might not apply to any of the employees who go out on the reservation, or would it ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; the employees of the Five Tribes superin- tendency would make the per capita payment. Senator Geonna. I do not think we ought to make it $200,000. We are going to increase this biU considerably. I think if we allow $10,000 extra it would be enough. The Chairman. Immediately available? INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 203^ Senator Gronna. Immediately available, because now there is a deficiency. Senator Owen. There is a deficiency, and they have got to make this payment, which is an unexpected charge. The Chairman. In the absence of objection, it will be agreed to — $175,000, with $10,000 additional to be immediately available. Senator Page. That is $185,000, with $10,000 immediately avail- able? ^ The Chairman. Yes; that is right. Senator Gronna. In all, $185,000. PER CAPITA PAYMENTS TO CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW TRIBES, OKLA- HOMA. The Chairman. The next item is fine 5, page 37: That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to pay to the enrolled members of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians of Oklahoma entitled under existing law to share in the funds of said tribes, or to their lawful heirs, out of any moneys belonging to said tribes in the United States Treasury or deposited in any bank or held by any official under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior, not to exceed $300 per capita in the cas3 of the Choctaws, and $200 per capita in the case of the Chickaaaws, said payment to be made under such rules and regula- tions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe: Provided, That in cases where such enrolled members, or their heirs, are Indians who by reason of their degree of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, withhold such payments and use the same for the benefit of such restricted Indians: Provided further, That the money paid to the enrolled members as pro-vided herein shall be exempt from any lien for attorneys' fees or other debt contracted prior to the passage of this Act: Provided further. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to use not to exceed $8,000 out of the Chickasaw and Choctaw Tribal funds for the expenses and the compensation of all necessary employees for the distribution of the said per capita payments. Senator Gronna. That is an item which I proposed last year, and, if you wiU remember, the Senator who has opposed it was ill at the time, and I hold no brief for that Senator (Senator Williams). If he knows that this matter is up, of course I shall not ask that it go over, but he has always been opposed to it, naturally so, because he has some of these people in his own State. He can better speak for himself than I could hope to speak for him. I simply wanted to call the attention of the committee that perhaps Senator WiUiams ought to be given an opportunity to be heard on it. For one — and I want to be very frank with the committee — I beheve we should do some- thmg for the Choctaws of Mississippi, but I think the right thing to do would be to pass a bill and take a certain amount out of the Treasury of the United States and get through with it. Senator Owen. Could we not give them a school, under the law of Mississippi? . . Senator Gronna. They are entitled to recognition. The Chairman. North Dakota. Senator Lane. What have you got against them that you want to give them a boarding school? , -i t , . .-, Senator Owen. I want to feed them while 1 educate them. Senator Gronna. Of course it is not for me to say what should be done but I beheve they should have recognition at the hands of the Government, because it is evident they were not given what they believed they were entitled to. 204 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. The Chairman. And the Government should pay in the future for those Indians in Oklahoma. I think you are right. Senator Owen. Could we not get them close to a school down there, or give them some school privileges ? Would you be opposed to that, Senator Lane ? Senator Lane. I would not consent to that. They have suffered enough. Senator Owen. You do not beUeve in the boarding schools ? Senator Lane. No, sir. Senator Owen. Could we not provide a certain fund that should be used for their schooling in the common schools down there? Senator Lane. That might be all right. Senator Owen. Could we not do that, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. Senator La FoUette ought to be here when this item is considered. The Chairman. He left a request with the chairmao. I took the liberty to speak to Senator Williams and told him what the biQ contained and told him he ought to introduce a biU directly ap- propriating money out of the Treasury, but he did not commit himself. Senator Owen. I move the adoption of this matter. Senator Lane. I should like to have Senators WiQiams and Husting come up. Senator Owen. Let us pass that. ATTORNEYS, FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES. The Chairman. We wiU pass it and recur to it agaia. We will now take up the bill further on page 38, beginning with line 4, estimated for and the House agreed to $85,000. For salaries and expenses of such attorneys and other employees as the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, deem necessary in probate matters affecting allottees or their heirs in the Five Civilized Tribes and in the several tribes of the Quapaw Agency, and for the costs and other necessary expenses incident to suits instituted or conducted by such attorneys, ?85,000. Senator Owen. I move its adoption. The Chairman. Is there any discussion? If not, it is agreed to. Senator Gronna. The justification is on what page ? Mr. Meritt. On page 338 of the House hearings. I might add that these probate attorneys are protecting the property of the minor Indians of the Five Civilized Tribes. Senator Gronna. We went over this very thoroughly last year. I have no objection to it. CHEROKEE ORPHAN TRAINING SCHOOL, TAHLEQUAH, OKLA. Senator Owen. The Cherokee Orphan Training School, I move we adopt that. For the support, continuance, and maintenance of the Cherokee Orphan Trainmg School, near Tahlequah, Oklahoma, for the orphan children Indian of the Five Civilized Tribes belonging to the restricted class, to be conducted as an industrial school under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior, including repairs and improvements, $40,000: Provided, That the unexpended balance of $7,500 appro- priat-ed by the Act of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, is hereby reappro- priated for the purchase of additional lands, not to exceed sixty acres. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 205 The Chairman. That is agreed to. It is $2,000 less than last year. The next is page 39. SEGREGATED COAL AND ASPHALT AREA. That tte Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to use not ex- ceeding $35,000 of the proceeds of sales of unallotted lands and other tribal property belonging to any of the Five Ci'vilized Tribes for payment of salaries of employees and other expenses of advertising and sale in connection with the further sales of such tribal lands and property, including the advertising and sale of the land within the segregated coal and asphalt area of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, or of the surface thereof as provided for in the Act of Congress approved February nineteenth, nineteen hundred and twelve (Thirty-seventh United States Statutes at Large, page sixty-seven), and of the improvements thereon, which is hereby expressly authorized, and for ether work necessary to a final settlement of the affairs of the Five Civilized Tribes: Provided, That not to exceed $10,000 of such amount may be used in con- nection with the collection of rents of unallotted lands and tribal buildings: Provided further, That diiring the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and seventeen, no moneys shall be expended^from tribal funds belonging to the Five Civilized Tribes without specific appropriation by Congress, except as follows: Equalization of allotments, per capita and other payments authorized by law to individual members of the respective tribes, tribal and other Indian schools for the current fiscal year under existing law, salaries and contingent expenses of governors, chiefs, assistant chiefs, secretaries, interpreters, and mining trustees of the tribes for the current fiscal year at salaries at the rate heretofore paid, and attorneys for said tribes employed under contract approved by the President, under existing law, for the current fiscal year: Provided further. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to pay the cost of maintenance during the current fiscal year of the tribal and other schools and to continue during the ensuing fiscal year the tribal and other schools among the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole Tribes from the tribal funds of those nations, within his discretion and under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe. Senator Gronna. You have quite a balance on hand for last year in that fund, Mr. Meritt, $17,611.63, according to the justification on page 340. , , /-n i <-> i Mr. Meritt. That is in connection with the Cherokee Orphan School, is it not, Senator ? Senator Gronna. I stand corrected. The Chairman. What shall we do with this item, $35,000 on page 39' Mr Meritt. The justification is found on page 347 of the House hearing. This appropriation is used to pay the salaries of employees in connection with the sale of tribal lands in the Choctaw and Chicka- saw country very largely. • ^i, ^ • i,+ » Senator Lane. What is this 1,042,000 acres; is that right? Mr Meritt. There is quite a large acreage of tribal lands m the Choctaw and Chickasaw country to be sold. We have been selhng a part of those lands each year. , r ^-u i Senator Lane. How much do you get for them per acre as a rule, ^^Mj^'SIitt. We received from about $3.50 to $17 an acre. Prices were unusually good. Senator Lane. What is it, coal « ... ,, ii j j +i,- Mr Sritt. No, su-; we are not seUing the coal lands under this item. Senator Lane. I thought you were. sSiSlTne. ThTsegregated coal and asphalt areas? 206 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. We are simply selling the surface of the lands. Senator Lane. You retain Mr. Meeitt. We retain the coal. Senator Lane. It does not say that. It says: "And sale of the land within the segregated coal and asphalt area of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, or of the surface thereof." It says : " or the sur- face thereof." Mr. Meeitt. They have 250,000 acres there which has been seg- regated, and we are selling the surface. Senator Lane. Does it say so in the bond here? It says, for the sale of the segregated coal and asphalt areas, those lands or of the surface thereof, isting law. There may be lands that are more or less valuable for Mr. Meeitt. We can not sell the segregated coal lands under ex- coal outside of the segregated area that we can sell under this provision. Senator Lane. Then it ought 'to be expressed here, ought it not? Senator Pittman. This is an appropriation to pay for the sale of whatever they can sell ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; to pay for the salaries of employees. Senator Lane. Yes, but it allows them to sell all of it, either below or on the surface. Senator Pittman. I would not think the appropriation of money for the purpose of paying for the sale of land would contaia a desig- nation of the character of land to be sold if there is a special law prohibittag the sale of coal lands. Senator Owen. You see some of these lands are within that segre- gated area. Senator Lane. I note that is referred to here, and I would not know it otherwise. Senator Owen. The law otherwise provides for the sale of coal. Senator Lane. That is protected somewhere else-? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. This merely provides the means. The Chaieman. If there is no objection it is agreed to. Senator Owen. Page 41 (reading) : FOE FULFILLING TEEATIES WITH CHOCTAWS, OKLAHOMA. For fulfilling treaties with Choctaws, Oklahoma: For permanent annmty (article ^two, treaty of November sixteenth, eighteen hundred and five, and article thirteen, treaty of June twenty-second, eighteen hundred and fifty-five), 13,000; for permanent annuity for support of light-horsemen (article thirteen, treaty of October eighteenth, eighteen hundred and twenty, and article thirteen, treaty of June twenty-second, -eighteen hundred and fifty-five), $600; for permanent annuity for support of black- smith (article six, treaty of October eighteenth, eighteen hundred and twenty, and article nine, treaty of January twentieth, eighteen hundred and twenty-five, and ar- ticle thirteen, treaty of June twenty-second, eighteen hundred and fifty-five), 1600; for permanent annuity for education (article two, treaty of January twentieth, eighteen hundred and twenty-five, and article thirteen, treaty If June twenty-second, eighteen hundred and fifty-five), $6,000; for permanent annuity for iron and steel (article nine treaty of January twentieth, eighteen hundred and twenty-five, and article thirteen, treaty of June twenty-second, eighteen hundred and fifty-five), $320; in all, $10,520. Senator Owen. I suppose no one will question that, it was esti- mated at $10,520 and agreed to for the same amount. The Chaieman. It is agreed to. INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 207 PUBLIC HIGHWAY, CHOCTAW NATION. Senator Owen (reading) : That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to acqmre on behalf of the Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma, by purchase or otherwise, such lands or easements as shall be necessary for the purpose of a roadway leading from Wheelock Academy, Choctaw Nation, Oklahoma, to the public highway, and to expend therefor not to exceed |150, from Choctaw tribal funds. Senator Page. I move it be agreed to. » The Chairman. In the absence of objection, it is agreed to. We will now recur to page 37. PER CAPITA PAYMENT. Senator Owen. On page 37, Senator Husting, there is a provision for paying $300 to the Choctaws and $200 to the Chickasaws, the Chickasaws having been previously been paid $100, which equalizes the situation, does it not ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; two years ago there was appropriated $100 per capita for the Chickasaws and no appropriation for the Choctaws. Senator Page. How many are there of the Choctaws and the Chickasaws ? Mr. Meritt. There are 10,966 Chickasaws and 20,699 Choctaws, That includes all classes. Senator Gronna. I think we figured last year it amounted to $4,000,000 or $5,000,000, something Uke that. Senator Owen. On what page is the justification for that item ? Mr. Meritt. On page 336 of the House hearings. Senator Page. It is $300 to the Choctaws and $200 to the Chicka- saws ? Senator Owen. Yes; that equalizes the payments to the Chicka- saws, they having already received $100. Senator Page. That means about $10,000,000, Senator. Senator Owen. I have not figured what it amounts to. Senator Page. It would be $8,100,000 to the Chickasaws. Senator Owen. You are counting in the Negroes that do not participate. Mr. Meritt. There are 6,029 Choctaw freedmen. Senator Page. How many receive the benefit of this distribution ? Mr. Meritt. All but the freedmen. Senator Owen. About 10,000 or 11,000 of the freedmen you have to deduct from that. . , ^n , -kt ^- j . />o^ Mr. Meritt. There are 6,029 m the Choctaw Nation and 4,662 Chickasaw freedmen. Senator Page. That leaves 4,000. Mr Meritt. That leaves 4,662 Choctaws. Senator Page. Those get $200 per capita? Mr Meritt The freedmen do not get anything under the law. Senator Page. Those left, I mean. Mr. Meritt. There are 6,304 Chickasaw Indians entitled to this Senator Page How many Choctaws ? Mr- Mfuitt There are 20,799 Choctaws entitled to the payment. sSialor Page. It is a little over $7,000,000. 208 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator OVEN. Yes; they have got about $9,000,000 on hand in in cash now, and they have about $31,000,000 altogether undis- tributed. This distribution was promised to them by the agreement of 1902, and they have been waiting patiently." Most of them have died since. Senator Htjsting. I want to say that I understand Senator La Follette would like to be here before that is passed upon. Senator Owen. Where is he now ? Senator Husting. He went to Wisconsin and wiU be back Thursday. He would Uke to be heard on it. The Chaieman. I have just telephoned Sena,tor Williams. He said he was none the less interested, but he thought the committee _ would vote against him anywaj and did not think he would come up. ' He said he thought the committee had a different view; that he was very glad to be notified but did not care to come up. Senator Owen. Senator La Follette, it seems, has preferred a request that he would Eke to be present, and I shall not be able to be here Thursday. The Chairman. We can not take it up in your absence on Thursday; then perhaps some other Senator can not be here some other time. I do not want to hurry the matter, but let us set a date for this item and dispose of it. Senator Owen. I would be glad to set next Monday. The Chairman. One week from to-day we will dispose of this item. Is there any objection to finally and formally disposing of this item next Monday ? Senator Owen. All right. The Chairman. There is no objection; then this wUl be finally disposed of next Monday. We have now finished with Oklahoma. Senator Owen. I have one or two matters I should like to bring up. Mr. Meritt. There is one important item which has been left out, Senator Owen — the public-school appropriation. Senator Owen. Yes; it is a very important item, which I wish to bring up at the bottom of page 38. I wish to propose this amend- ment: The sum of $275,000, to be expended in the discretion of the Secretary of the Inte- rior, under rules and regulations to be prescribed by him, in aid of the common schools in the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, and Seminole Nations and the Qiiapaw Agency in Oklahoma, during the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and seventeen: Provided, Tha,t this appropriation shall not be subject to the limi- tation in section one of this act limiting the expenditure of money to educate children of less than one-fourth Indian blood. Now, Congress has made this appropria'tion year after year upon this theory, that Congress had by its own act, in order to induce the Indian people to allot their lands in Oklahoma and establish a State government in lieu of the tribal governments and to give up their tribal government, that these lands should not be taxable while held in the hands of the Indian people. Of course, that does not apply after a person becomes freed from these restrictions, except in certain limited cases, but it had the effect of leaving whole counties without any adequate provision for raising taxes to meet the cost of schooling, and I think it is a matter which is of national importance on a broad poHcy to have these people given opportunities of educa- INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 209 tion and not to leave them because of this condition without adequate assistance in these schools. Senator Husting. Where does it appear, Senator? Senator Owen. I am proposing this amendment to the item at the bottom of page 38. The Chaieman. You will find a draft of the previous legislation, page 38, in the right-hand column. Senator Page. What is the abihty of these people to pay their own school expenses ? Senator Owen. The ability of the fuU-blood Indian, of course, is neghgible, because they are not skiUful ui money-making; they do not know very much about money-making. They have lived there contentedly in the country provided very apparently for them ; they have just turned their hogs out to open range and have made a living with little difiiculty; but now the lands have been subdivided and distributed and they do not make as good a living now as before. Senator Page. Those Five Tribes have been regarded as very wealthy. Senator Owen. That is true in a sort of generalized sense — that is to say, they have these large areas of land — but when you come to deal with the individual Indian, although he had the world to run in, it did not make any difference as long as he ran after a rabbit and did not run after money-making. They lived a free life and were quite happy. When they did not want very much, they were easily con- tented and they were easily satisfied, so that they did not make any great effort to assimilate property. Senator Page. Are not these the same tribes, in part at least, to whom you are going to distribute this 1200,000 Senator Owen. Yes. Senator Page. Why should not a part of this sum be taken to pay for schools instead of taking it out of the Federal Treasury ? Senator Owen. If you could have these individual Indians, these restricted Indians who are in this condition, apply these funds in that way, that claim might be made. Senator Page. Why can we not make the application for them ? Senator Owen. I think they would regard it as a great hardship to be required to run the public schools. Many persons of this tribe have no children at all. Only here is one and there is one, etc. Senator Page. But up in our section we regard a man just as much under obligation to pay for the schools it he has no children as if he had 10. Trr. i i ■ Senator Owen. Yes, but it would be a very drfhcult thmg to carry out an administration of that kind, a child going a certam number of days. To keep the record would be very difficult. Senator Husting. The Osages ought not to be m there? Senator Owen. The Osages ought not to be m there. Ihe Osages have other means to apply for that purpose. „„^, ^^„ Senator Page. This is an amendment providing $275,000 gratuity, is it not ? Senator Owen. Yes. * . ■ .u- o Senator Page. There is no reimbursement in this i Senator Owen. Yes, and I gave a very good reason. 31362—16 14 210 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. I just asked the question whether this was gratuity or reimbursable. Senator Owen. No, it is a gratuity which Congress adopted some years ago on the ground that it had made these lands non-taxable, so that State can not raise the funds by taxing the lands and the Indians have no other property excepting the lands. Senator Curtis. Congress gave to the State of Oklahoma 15,000,000 in heu of lands, which was to be used for school purposes, but a year or two later it was discovered that the schools were not being suffi- ciently supphed and Congress gave, I think, $250,000 additional. Senator Owen. Congress gave $275,000, but first $300,000. Senator Curtis. Whatever it was they gave it, and it was supposed that appropriation would be made for a few years until more ol that land was sold and became taxable and the towns would have their schools, and I suppose the only question now is whether or not those people have sufficient lands ? Senator Owen. That is the question. Senator Cuktis. Of course, if they have, this appropriation could not be made; if they have not, I think it ought to be made. Senator Owen. It is not a matter withm the judgment of the commissioner to say whether or not under the circumstances the appropriation is justified. Senator Curtis. I thought when the appropriation was first made the committee gave it very careful consideration, and in view of the fact that $5,000,000 was to be given to the State, and they did not make the appropriation until they became perfectly satisfied it was justified. . Senator Page. We are now distributing to these same Indians $7,200,000. Senator Cuktis. Yes; but a great many of these Indians have withdrawn from the tribes. They were made citizens by act of Congress, I understand ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. Those people are taxed. Senator Curtis. Those people are taxed, but I understand about 90 per cent of them have lost the land. Senator Owen. I do not know the percentage, but quite a good many of them sold their surplus land in whole or in part. Senator Page. We would not be doing right, do you think, to take out a certain sum of money and set it apart for school purposes before we made the distribution? Senator Curtis. I do not think we would have the right to take any out of the tribal funds. The question with us was whether or not the $5,000,000 cash we gave was equivalent to the amount of lands the new State would have gotten ordinarily had it been given land, as other States were given; and I think the committee had some question or some doubt as to whether or not the $5,000,000 did equal what the land would have been valued at had we given them land to the same extent we gave land to other States, and in considera- tion of that, and also the large tribe population and the financial condition of the country, the nontaxable property in some coun- ties — 1 think it was shown that some counties had a very small amount of taxable property — Congress did set the example and the precedent by giving the $300,000. Now, I should think the commis- INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 211 sioner would know whether or not conditions have changed there, so that the Congress could discontinue that plan or not. I should feel very much like following the advice of the department in reference to that matter, or that of the superintendent of the Five Civihzed Tribes, who would know their circumstances. Senator Owen. Is the superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes in the city ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; he is here. Mr. Meritt. So far as the bm-eau is concerned, we feel that this appropriation should be made. There are in Oklahoma millions of acres of Indian land that are not subject to taxation. We are pro- viding for a large number of Indians in the public schools of Okla- homa with this appropriation. It costs per capita a very small amount to send these Indian children to school. We do not pay for their board or clothing; we simply pay their tuition, which amounts to about $3 a month, and as we have in the State of Oklahoma a large amount of Indian land not taxable, and as one-third of the Indians of the United States are living in that State, we believe that this appropriation should be continued. Senator riTTMAN. Why was the land made nontaxable ? Senator Owen. It was one of the conditions on which the Indians agreed to statehood. They were very much attached to their tribal government and did not want to give it up; and that was given as an inducement, that they would hold this nontaxable. Senator Pittman. And now they want the lands nontaxable. I am following the argument suggested by Senator Page that they were given that privilege of nontaxation under conditions then exist- ing. Now I imderstand they want to change the condition and go into j)ubhc schools. Why should not their property be made tax- able similar to that of others who go into public schools ? Senator Owen. They made the agreement that they should have the proceeds of this property distributed per capita and that they would have the land nontaxable. They did not foresee the condition of schools, nor did they see that the land being nontaxable they would be able to raise these different schools. Senator Pittman. But the Government is undertaking an addi- tional burden, is it not ? Senator Owen. Yes, sir. The Government took that much of a burden. With regard to the schools it is a question whether we wiU continue them or whether we wiU stop them. The matter was heard before the committee quite fully, and the committee decided to allow them $300,000, and did so for some years, and it was then reduced to $255,000. The proposition now is that it be continued for another year. Senator Pittman. Why did the House decline to allow that ? Senator Owen. Simply on the ground of economy. Senator* Page. Was the question ever raised whether the $5,000,000 that the Government paid absolutely and outright should be regarded as an offset? Senator Owen. No, not that I know ot. , ^ , i. ^ Senator Curtis. That was an arbitrary amount hxed by Congress i Senator Owen. Congress just fixed that amount m lieu of the land. Of course if the State of Oklahoma had gotten the land it would be much more valuable, because this land which is bemg put at $1.25 an 212 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. acre woxild have been, as a matter of fact, worth ten times that much, but we were compelled to take what the Government offered us in lieu of the land. Senator Page. You spoke of having 7,000 acres. Senator Owen. Yes; we could have disposed of it in Oklahoma at a very much higher price than the land farther west. Senator Page. I confess I do not know about this. I know that this pai ticular section of this bill probably encountered more oppo- sition two or three or four years ago than any other section that I recall. Am I right about that? That is, with respect to this dis- tribution ? Senator Owen. That was not the question of distribution. It was a question of opening the rolls. The theory was advanced that by making this distribution they would estabUsh a precedent by which other distributions would be made in the future; and this thirty-one million referred to would ultimately, by succeeding appropriations, finally dissipate the estate, and that those persons who claim that the rolls ought to be reopened would in that way be deprived of a remedy. Senator Page. The $5,000,000 a year and $7,000,000 a year would indicate that money had been flowing pretty freely. Senator Owen. The $5,000,000 has no relation to this. Senator Page. I know, but you get a $5,000,000 estate. Senator Owen. That has no relation to the Choctaw estate. Senator Page. Here is $7,000,000 of money and I was wondering whether or not there was some way that this money ought to go for the purpose of taking care of the $275,000, and I wondered whether the House did not take that view of it. Senator Owen. The commissioner will have to answer that. I do not know what action the House took — whether the House considered it or not. Did it come before the House ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, su\ This estimate was included in the Indian bill and went out on a point of order in the House. Senator Owen. So the House committee did approve of it? The arguments have been regarded as justifying both the House and Senate committees in maldng this allowance, and it is simply a question as to whether we shall discontinue it on the ground of economy. Senator Pittman. As a matter of law, under the treaty we have no other way to do. Senator Owen. No, sir. We do not make any claim that it is any legal obligation on the part of the Government. It is merely a question of whether the Government, having as a matter of public policy made the land nontaxable the Government will make some amends by making this provision for schools. Senator Pittman. Under the treaty with the Indians we have na legal authority to take anything for school purposes; and,' secondly, the only obligation we have is the duty of the Government toward the taxable people of that State by reason of having made this kind of treaty. Senator Owen. Yes; and toward the Indian people, too, who have been treated as wards by the Government. It is not so much the taxable people there as it is the Indians, because the Indians are supposed to get the benefit of this fund, and the taxable people there meet their own expenses. INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 213 Senator Cxtrtis. I might state, further, Senator Pittman, that Congress by an act in 1908 attempted to tax a lot of this property in Oklahoma and the Supreme Court of the United States held that it was unconstitutional. Senator Pittman. That suggests the question raised by Senator Page oi educating the Indian; so the only question we have to con- sider is whether the Government of the IJnited States is more or less obligated to furnish education. Senator Owen. That is all there is about it. Senator Page. In my own mind I was thinking that here is an immense sum of money, $5,000,000 at one time, and then $7,000,000, that these Indians say they have coming to them, and there are $9,000,000 in the Treasury now, I am told, and I was thinking whether the conditions altogether would not justify the Federal Gov- ernment in declining to be generous in this matter. Senator Owen. When you speak of $9,000,000, it looks like an enormous amount of money, but when you distribute that money amongst 30,000 people, it is not so much after all. That is not such a vast estate. They have been waiting for it since 1902; they have waited for 14 years, and over one-third of those people are dead; they have died since that agreement was made. The Government has very much neglected its duty toward those people, I think. It has certainly disappointed them deeply because they thought they would have a distribution of that property, and before the property will ever be distributed another one-third will die unless the Govern- ment is more active in its distribution of the property. It just comes down to the question of policy whether the committee is willing to sustain the policy of other committees in previous Congresses, if it was justified, or whether the committee would like, for the sake of economy, to discontinue that method. Whatever the committee does will be the end of it. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the item. The item was agreed to. OKLAHOMA PROBATE ATTORNEYS. Senator Curtis. I would Hke to ask the Senator from Oklahoma, if I may, about the probate attorneys down there. The Senator will remember that when those probate attorneys were appointed, I was very strongly opposed to them. I beheved in the discontinuance of district agents. I have just received a communication from Cherokee County — in the Tahlequah district— showing nine cases brought by guardians in the interest of Indians, and in those nine cases eight have employed private counsel, and only one is represented by a probate attorney. I have also had brought to my attention two cases that are clearly in violation of the law. The storekeepers there have had their friends petition to sell the minor's property, and they have held the income from the sale to pay the debts of the guardian m two separate cases, and they have appealed to the probate attorney to bring suit against the people who got this money unlawfully The man had no right to take it, this storekeeper, and he knew he had no right to take it. Instead of suing the storekeeper, they have sued the guardian on his bond, which is worthless. If this is true with respect to one county, I would not be surprised if it was true as to many other counties I would like to have a little information on that subject. 214 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Owen. I do not know the instances of mismanagement to which the Senator refers. I take it there would be such instances in a country of that size, and that there would be a number of cases that would arise. Senator Curtis. It would hardly be eight to one, though? Senator Owen. I do not know who the attorney is or what the facts are. The Supreme Court recently directed the local courts to cooperate in Indian affairs on the lines laid down by the commis- sioner, safeguarding it, and the Legislature of Oklahoma, as you probably know, made it a felony to cloud a full-blood Indian home- stead. The people down there are not to be understood as having no sympathy with the Indian or his protection. I do not know of the instances that you speak of, nor do I know who the men were. Senator Curtis. The cases referred to are on the Cherokee County docket. Senator Owen. I do not know who the attorney is. Mr. Hastings, from my State, may know. Mr. Hastings. E. C. McMichael is the attorney now. Senator Curtis. These cases just came by mail yesterday. I thought I had them here, but I fiiid I left them at my office. Senator Owen. I should think there would be many more cases than nine cases on that docket, Mr. Hastings? Mr. Hastings. Pardon me, my attention was diverted for a moment. Senator Curtis. I understand they are all on the county court docket. In eight of them private attorneys were employed, and one was represented by the probate attorney. In two cases the names of the estates were given, and it was stated that the guardian had sold the property under petition, and the purchaser deducted his bill against the guardian for groceries, and paid him the difference, and held out the money. The probate attorney was requested to bring suit against the man who unlawfully withheld the money, because it was not liable for the guardian's debts. He refused to bring suit against him, but brought suit against the guardian on his bond, and the guardian is worthless and the bondsman is worthless. There are two cases of that kind that came by mail yesterday. Mr. Hastings. I expect you refer to nonrestricted Indians? Senator Curtis. One they said was, and one was not. They cited the two cases. Mr. Hastings. They could not sell the land of unrestricted Indians under the authority of the probate court. Senator Curtis. It must nave been that both were restricted. Mr. Hastings. I live at Tahlaquah. I do not think the probate attorney gives special attention to the unrestricted class unless his attention is invited to it, either by the party interested or by the authorities, but he gives his attention almost exclusively to the restricted class. Senator Curtis. This matter was brought to his attention and he brought suit against the guardian, and the guardian's bondsmen, but refused to bring suit against the man who purchased the property and held out the amount. Senator Page. Are you through with Oklahoma ? Senator Curtis. Yes. INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 215 OIL AND GAS INSPECTORS. Senator Owen. There is one item that I desire to call to the atten- tion of the committee with respect to oil and gas inspectors. It is as follows : For salaries and expenses of six oil and gas inspectors and necessary office and field assistants, to supervise oil and gas mining operations on allotted and tribal lands la the State of Oklahoma from which restrictions have not laeen removed, and to conduct investigations ^vith a view to the prevention of waste, $25,000. That whole country in eastern Oklahoma is being drilled over for oil and gas, over a very large area. Senator Page. Would that be an appropriation or would it be taken out of the Indian funds ? Senator Owen. That would be an appropriation from the United States in its general supervisory powers. Senator Curtis. When there is such a small amount of oil and gas land now unrestricted ? , Senator Owen. I would not say it was a small amount unrestricted. If you take the Creeks they are nearly all full bloods. Senator Curtis. I am told that about 80 per cent in the Cherokee and Creek country are unrestricted and about 20 per cent restricted. Senator Owen. I do not know what the relation is. I think they are much more than that. Mr. Meritt. It is estimated that about 25 per cent of the oil land in eastern Oklahoma is restricted. This appropriation has been very helpful to the department in conserving tne gas, and also requiring the oil operators to conduct their operations on restricted Indian lands along proper lines. Senator Curtis. Did you ask for it in the House ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. And it went out? Mr. Meritt. It went out on a point of order in the House, I think. The Bureau of Mines is cooperating with the Indian Bureau in con- serving the gas and in seeing that the oil operations are conducted along proper lines. Senator Pittman. How did it go out on a point of order 1 Mr. Meritt. They have a rather strict rule in the House. Almost any item that you can not show specific authority of law for is subject to a pomt of order. Senator Gronna. It is new legislation. Senator Pittman. I had an idea that a committee's recommenda- tion would not be subject to a point of order unless amendment was made on the floor without recommendation of the committee or with- out an estimate. . , „ i ^ -^ • • ^i Senator Curtis. That is not so m the House, but it is m the Senator Pittman. It was only on the question of the rules that I was asking for information. ^ ^t, ■ j i. •£ i Senator Gronna. Anything that is not authorized by specific law is subject to a point of order. (The item was agreed to.) 216 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. TRIBAL SCHOOLS. Senator Owen. I want to ask whether or not the ittm authorizing the Secretary of the Interior to continue for the current fiscal year the tribal schools went out on the House bill ? Mr. Mekitt. The item as passed by the House is satisfactory to the department. It is to be found on page 40 and is as follows: Provided further, That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to pay the cost of maintenance during the current fiscal year of the tribal and other schools and to continue during the ensuing fiscal year the tribal and other schools among the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole Tribes from the tribal funds of those nations, within his discretion and under such i-ules and regulations as he may prescribe. Senator Owen. That is aU right. I did not know whether that had been agreed to or not. I desired to look after it if it had not. The Chairman. Is there anything further ? Senator Owen. No, sir. NEVADA. The Chairman. The next item is under the head of Nevada, page 29. Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, we have been in session almost three hours and a half. If Senator Pittman desires to make a brief state- ment, I am •walling to listen ; otherwise I shall move that the committee adjourn. Senator Pittman. I will detain the committee but a very few moments. The next item was as follows : For support and civilization of Indians in Nevada, including pay of employees, (The item was agreed to.) INDIAN SCHOOL AT CARSON OITT, NEV. The next item was as follows : For support and education of 280 Indian pupils at the Indian school at Carson City, Nev., including pay of superintendent, $48,760; for general repairs and improvements, $8,000; for irrigating school farm, $4,000; in all, $60,760. Senator Pittman. The estimate there was for 300 pupils ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we would like to have our estimate on this matter. (The item was agreed to on the estimate of $89,100.) The next item was as follows: irrigation diversion and distribution system. For the improvement, enlargement, and extension of the irrigation diversion and distribution system to irrigate approximately three thousand three hundred acres of Indian land on the Pyramid Lake Reservation. Nevada, $30,000, reimbursable from any funds of said Indians now or hereafter available, and to remain available until expended: Provided, That the cost of said entii-e work shall not exceed $85,000. Senator Pittman. The estimate was allowed there. The Chairman. Yes; .189,100. Senator Page. We allowed the estimates running from lines 4 to 8 ? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 217 Mr. Meritt. The justification for that item is found on page 257 of the House hearings. We would Hke very much to have our esti- mates. We are satisfied with tlie allowance made by the House, that is, $30,000. The Chairman. There was a printer's mistake tliere? Mr. Meritt. We are satisfied with the amount, $30,000. Senator Page. Is that a new irrigation project? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. How much is it going to. cost ? Mr. Meritt. Eighty-five thousand dollars. Senator Page. That is reimbursable. Have the Indians anything out of which they can pay this ? Senator Pittman. I think the land is very valuable if they can put water upon it. Mr. Meritt. Those Indians have 322,000 acres of land, and they have ample property to reimburse the Government. Senator Curtis. It has cost you about $69 an acre for every acre of that that you have irrigated for the Indians ? Mr. Meritt. The total estimated cost wiU be about $38.50 an acre. Senator Curtis. I mean up to date you have expended that amount on what you have developed, less than a thousand acres. Do you not think it will cost you at the rate of $69 an acre? The question is whether or not they are going to be able to meet that if you go on with that project ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. Where is that, Senator Pittman? Senator Pittman. It is north of Reno, in Humboldt County. Senator Owen. Would it be possible to irrigate a larger acreage outside so that the $69 will be reduced ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; it has cost us approximately $60 an acre to irrigate the land already irrigated, and if we can get this increased appropriation, the full cost for the entire project will be brought down to $38.50 an acre. It is necessary that we get this appropriation so as to conserve the water supply for those Indians. Senator Lane. There is no way in which the white man can get in on this ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; if we get this appropriation it will prevent the white man from getting water that will otherwise go to them. Senator Lane. Are you trying to fix it so that he can? i Mr. Meritt. We are trying to fix it so that the Indian will keep his water. The Chairman. That is agreed to. , t Senator Page. One moment before you say it is agreed to. Let us have these important items debated. My experience has been that these irrigation expenditures for the Indian lands has Ix'en a curse to the Indians in four out of every five times. I want to have somebody as good as you are to stand up and say that that is a project that will inure to the benefit of the Indians. , , .,, j , ^-u , -^ Senator Pittman. I am frank to say that with regard to that item I have not investigated it, but I am going to investigate it. The matter has not been called to my attention before. Senator Page. Then I ask that it be passed over. 218 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. The Chairman. At the request of the Senator from Vermont that will be passed over until to-morrow. Senator Lane. Or when the committee meets again. The next item was as follows : WATER RIGHTS, WASHOE TRIBE, NEVADA. For the purchase of land and water rights for the Washoe Tribe of Indians, the title to which is to be held in the United States for the benefit of said Indians, |10,000; for the support and civilization of said Indians, $5,000; in all, |15,000. The Chairman. That item was very thoroughly discussed in the committee last year. I think it was agreed to. Senator Pittman. It was agreed to and was in the bill last year. The Chairman. Yes. It provides: "The title to which is to be held in the United States for the benefit of said Indians, $10,000." Senator Page. When that was agreed to last year was it expected that we were going to continue this appropriation year after year for buying land ? Senator Pittman. It was not; the bill failed, of course. That was not the intention. The intention was, I think, to buy these people little tracts of land in little towns where they happened to be located, so they could have their gardens and the men could chop wood and the women coidd do sewing. But at the present time they have not the appropriation of last year. Senator Page. This appropriation is made because the appropria- tion of last year failed ? Senator Pittman. Yes, sir. Senator Page. And you do not expect this appropriation wUl be asked for next year ? Senator Pittman. No, sir. Senator Page. I move we approve it. The item was agreed to. Mr. Meritt. Could we have this item amended so as to insert . after the figures "$10,000" the words, "to be immediately available and to remain available until expended"? (The amendment was agreed to.) homeless INDIANS IN NEVADA. Senator Pittman. There is another class of Indians in the State different from the Washoes, whose rights are substantiated by these reports which I am going to ask to be put into the hearings. I have a biU in which I have asked for $100,000 for all the homeless Indians in Nevada for the purpose of purchasing land for them. They are nonreservation Indians, who have no homes on the reservation. A letter was submitted to the Secretary of the Interior, and he makes a proposal of this kind (reading) : Department op the Intbeiok, Washington, February 8, 1916. Mt Dear Senator: I am in receipt, by your reference of January 13, 1916, with request for my views thereon, of an amendment intended to be offered by Senator Pittman to the Indian appropriation bill to appropriate $100,000 for the purpose of procuring home sites with adequate water rights, and to provide for agricultural instruction for thenom-eservation Indians of Nevada. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs has advised me that out of the total number of 5,240 Indians in the State of Nevada approximately 3,100 have no land or reservation rights; that they are scattered throughout the State and need the assistance of the INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 219 Government to start lliem toward self-support. I believe that, if possible, something should be done to assist these homeless Indians, and think that an experiment might well be made along the lines of this bill. A similar object has been accomplished to a considerable extent m the appropriation to purchase land for homeless Indians in Calitornia. I suggest that the proposed amendment be modified to read as follows; "For the purpose of procuring home and farm sites, with adequate water rights, and providing a/rricultural equipment and instruction and other necessary supplies for the nonreservation Indians In the State of Ne\-ada, .?15,000." (^ordially, yours. Franklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Henry P\ Ashurst, Chmrman Committee on Indian Affairs Un tied States Senate. Senator Page. That is in place of j^our S100,000 is it? Senator Pittman. Yes; that is in place of the $100,000. I based my recommendation of $100,000 on the recommendation of the Indian agent out there in the State, which I will file for the record. Of course, I can not expect any more than the department recom- mends, so I simply ask that the amendment providing for $15,000 be allowed. (The amendment was agreed to.) FUNDS OF THE FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES PER CAPITA PAYMENTS. Senator Owen. I have a small item which I wish to present to the committee, authorizing the use of interest accruing on the funds of the Five Civilized Tribes on deposit to defray the expenses of the per capita payments. The Cherokee payment to be made is only $3.50 apiece. There are about 40,000 of them, and it is quite an expense. It requires, probably, between $5,000 and $6,000 to make it, and it was thought that the interest on their own funds might properly be used. Those funds are on deposit, and it was thought that the interest might be used to provide for the expense of that disbursement, and I think it substantially right to do it. Senator Page. Would that not properly come with the other dis- bursements that are to be talked about at the next meeting ? Senator Owen. No, sir; it is part of the administrative cost of the payment to the Cherokees particularly. Senator Page. One tribe ? Senator Owen. Yes; the Cherokees particularly. The authority is contained in the act of March 3, 1911, as follows: The authority contained in the act of March 3, 1911 (36 Stat. L., 1058-1070), for the use of the interest accruing on funds of the Five CiviUzed Tribes on deposit in banks to defray expenses of per capita payments to the Indians of the proceeds of the sale of their surplus allotted land shall be deemed sufficient to include salaries and wages of any employees actually and necessarily engaged in the work of making such per capita payments. Senator Curtis. In other words, to make them pay their own expenses instead of the Government ? Senator Owen. Yes; and to that extent. Senator Curtis. I should think that would be a fair and satisfac- tory course. . , , , .,., j? xi. Senator Owen. Mr. Hastmgs, who has been an attorney lor the Cherokees for a good time, has approved it. . , ,.„ Mr. Meritt. We wiU be very glad to have that in the bill. Senator Owen. It is at the bottom of page 38. (The item was agreed to.) 220 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. NEVADA INDIANS. Senator Pittman. I desire to ask the consent of the committee to place in the record, in substantiation of the amendment that I sug- gested, and which you have acted upon, the reports of Mr. C. H. Asbury, special Indian agent, which is very illuminating and instruc- tive upon the subject. (The reports referred to are here printed in full, as follows:) Department of the Intbkioe, United States Indian Service, Seno, Nev., October^, 1915. Hon. Key Pittman, Reno, Nev. Dear Sei^ator: I am inclosing herewith, a copy of a letter to the honorable Com- missioner of Indian Affairs in relation to the general condition of the scattering Indians in Nevada, for whonj we hope to secure an appropriation at the coming Con- gress. The Indian Bureau is in accord with tliis proposed legislation and requested me to prepare some such justification, as I have attempted. It occurred 'to me that you would be interested in having this matter, in order that you could have some tune to consider the matter before the busy days of Congress began. I feel assured of your cooperation in this matter, in view of the interest that you have shown in the past. Very respectfully, C. H. Asbury, Special Indian Agent. provision for homeless INDIANS IN NEVADA. October 2, 1915. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. Sir: In compliance with the above letter of April 20, 1915, I submit herewith a brief atatement of the condition of Indians and Indian homes in Nevada. The office will note that this was the subject of a joint and concurrent resolution in the Nevada Legislature last winter, in which the legislature asked the Congress of the United States to make an appropriation of $100,000 for the purpose of providing homes for the homeless nonreservation Indians in this State. It seems that the office is in accord with the object of this proposed legislation and has reported favorably upon bills formerly introduced, looking to this same end. This has been the subject of quite extensive correspondence in the past, more especially relating to Washoe In- diana, who live in the western part of the State. I don't consider it advisable in this letter to go into more minute detail than is necessary to show the general condition and needs and I will try to be as brief as is consistent with a clear understanding of the situation. Attached herewith is an outline map, showing the number of Indians in each county, as given by the United States Census, 1910, which is doubtless approximately correct, I have compared these figures with the census of 1890 and 1900 and find the figures to be about the same. It will be noted from this map, that there are Indians in every county in the State, and these are scattered generally in every community of the State, some living about almost every town and ranch settlement, a few famiMes in a place. In general, the Shoshoni Indians live in the eastern part of the State. A treaty was made with these Shoshoni Indians, who were designated as the Western Shoshoni Indians of Nevada, on October 1, 1863. This treaty defined, in an indefinite way, the Western Shoshoni country, covering nearly one-third of the State of Nevada on the east side. This treaty provided that the Indian should concede everything that the white people wanted; A right of way for stage and express lines, railroads, immigrants; the right to mine, farm, to establish stock ranches, use timber; and in fact contained no restriction as to the use of this land by white people; the Indiali agreeing to remain friendly and to not molest the settlers and travelers; also agreeing to go on a reservation, when such was set apart at some future time. Asa compen- sation for these concessions, the Indians were to receive certain issues to the amount of $5,000 a year for 20 years and were to receive a reservation somewhere within the country defined as Western Shoshoni country, but which was really Western Shoshoni country only in sentiment and not in reality. In 1877 a reservation was set apart by INDIAN APPEOPEIATl ON BILL. 221 Executive order in the northern part of Nevada and Southern Idaho, to which a comparatively few of these Shoshonis moved. There are probably some 300 Sho- shonis living on that reservation, and some 1,400 who never went to the reservation and WHO contend that such reservation was not meant for them and was not in the locality where they had wanted a reservation. However this may be, it is a fact that the reseryatoon is entirely inadequate for the number of Shoshonis to be provided for It IS probable that the issues, provided for in the treaty, were made in good faith so far as the office was concerned, but it seems certain that these were never very equitably distributed, as many of the Shoshonis say they never knew of such issues and never received any part thereof. The Piutes are scattered very generally throughout the State, with the exception ot this northeastern part, where the Shoshonis were living. Limited reservations were provided for them as follows: Pyramid Lake Reservation in "Washoe County where there are some 500 enrolled and where there is inadequate land for even that number; the Walker River Reservation, with about 500 enrolled, with inadequate agricultural land for the number there; the Moapa Reservation in Clarke County with about 120 enrolled, where the land that can be irrigated will not accommodate more. Some 200 or more Piutes have taken up their homes on the Western Shoshoni Reser- yaUon in northern Nevada and in Idaho, which was originally intended for Shoshoni Indians. Some 200 Piutes have been provided with a limited quantity of land in the northern part of Humboldt County, under the McDermitt superintendancy, and some 300 have been provided with land in Churchill County, under a Government irrigation project. The Washoe Indians live in the extreme western part of Nevada in the locality of Carson City, mostly in Douglas County, some living in Ormsby and the southern part of Washoe Counties and in the adjacent part of California. There are approximately 500 of these Washoes in Nevada who never had any treaty with the Lnited States, who never had any reservation, who were never hostile to the whites, but rendered assistance to the whites in the latter's trouble with the Piutes in early days. They never received any gratuities. Something over 20 years ago they were given allot- ments on the public domain, mostly in Douglas County, but these allotments have absolutely no value as a home, as they are situated on a bare range of hills where there is no water for irrigation and no laud susceptible of irrigation if they had water. The little water that is in the locality had already been taken up by the white people. At least three-quarters of this land could not be given away, as a white man would not have it deeded to him for fear it might be subject to taxation. Some of it has a little nut-pine timber on it which has a limited value for fuel, but even that is often inaccessible, so that the cost of getting the wood out would be prohibitive. A few nonreservation allotments have been made in various parts of the State, but in most cases the land has little value, as water rights have already been appropriated and land in Nevada without water right for irrigation has practically no value. These Indians make their li^'ing at common labor about towns and on the ranches adjacent to where they live, the women earning a large part of the living, doing wash- ing and other domestic work about the homes of the white people. They live in such small houses and shacks as they can provide for themselves, usually located on a barren spot which no one else wants. Vi'e. can hardly hope to provide these people with any considerable quantity of good land, but we should have an appropriation sufficient to buy small tracts where they can be encouraged to build for themselves better homes and where they can feel that they are in no danger of being ejected at the whim or necessity of the owner. These tracts should not be pm-chased with a view to assembUng any considerable number of Indians at one place, but should he bought in the locality where the Indians now live and where they have a chance to earn their living, as they do at the present time, supplemented by such garden and small farming as they may be able to do on small tracts. Even 1 acre with a water right would be eminently better for a family than a large allotment with no water. I am inclosing herewith a few photographs, showing some typical Indian homes as they now live. These are no worse than hundreds throughout the State. I also inclose some photographs of homes at Lovelocks, where we bought a small tract of land for them, also on the reservations and at Fallon, where they have a title to their land, showing the contrast in the kind of homes they will provide when they have an assurance that they will not be disturbed. These Indians at Lovelocks are no better off financially than those in other settlements, making their living in the same way but the interest they have shown in improving their homes and keeping them in good condition since this land was bought for them is most encouraging. Since having the assurance of the off.ce that it was in accord -with this proposed appropriation 1 have discussed the situation somewhat with both Senators Newlands and Pittman and I formerly discussed the situation with Congressman Roberts of this 222 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. State and I am assured of their cooperation to this end, and in order tliat they may have oppartunity to give the matter consideration in advance of the meeting of Congress, I have given them copies of this letter with the inclosures. Very respectfully, 0. H. AsBTJKY, Special Indian Agent, Senator Pittman. And also two letters of Mr. James B. Koyce, who is superintendent of the Carson Indian School. (The letters referred to are here printed in full, as follows:) Department of the Interior, United States Indian Service, Carson Indian School, Stewart, Nev., January ZS, 1916. Hon. Key Pittman, United States Senator, Washington, D. C. My Dear Senator: I am inclosing herewith justification covering estimate sub- mitted by the Indian Office for the appropriation for this school for 1917. I returned safely on the 18th, but was delayed three days at Reno on account of snow blockade. It snowed all day yesterday and last night and I imagine that the Virginia & Truckee is again out of commission. The snow is three and a half feet deep on the level. As soon as I have the opportunity to do so, I will write you in regard to Mr. Walsh. I trust that you will succeed in getting the entire amount for this school as estimated ' by the office. The petitions in regard to the school will be forwarded to you in a few days. As soon as the Indian bill is introduced into the House, I wish you would send me a copy. Very truly, yours, Jas. B. Royce, Superintendent. JUSTIFICATION. In support of the estimate for 300 pupils for Carson Indian School for 1917, instead of 250, 1 wish to say that there are in the State of Nevada, as shown by the most reliable census, about 700 Indian pupils who have no school facilities whatever. All of the Indian schools of Nevada are filled to their capacity. The only school which Qan accommodate more than the number appropriated for is the Carson school. This school in the pist has always had an appropriation for 300 pupils, but in 1915 the number was cut down to 250. We are able therefore to accommodate 300 pupils without any additional buildings whatever. At this time we have an enrollment of 284 pupils, while our appropriation provides for 250. I have already been compelled to refuse over 50 pupils who made voluntary application for admittance. In fact, it would be no trouble to enroll between 400 and 500 pupils in this school if we had the necessary capacity. It would seem a good business pDlicy to have an appropriation for this school for as many pupils as we can accommodite at this time. As stated before, we can accommodate 300, and since there are about 700 pupils in the State who can not attend school because there are not enough schools, it would certainly appear to be justified to appropriate for at least 300. By building some sleeping porches this coming summer, we could very easily accom- modate 350 pupils, and the bill should provide for that number, if possible. The Indian Office estimate provides for $8,000 for general repairs and improve- ments. All of the buildings of this school are of frame construction, and many of them are very psorly built. Therefore it requires a large amount of money to keep theee buildings in repair. During the past two or three years the buildings have not been kept up, and for that reason we need a great deal more money than $8,009 to keep the buildings in presentable condition. We should have at least $12,000 for repairs and improvements. The Indian Office estimate provides $4,000 for irrigating school farm. This school has 683 acres of land, and of this amount probably 300 acres could be cultivated if we had sufficient amount of water. Water is secured for irrigation from Clear Creek, and the school owns 47 per of the flow of the stream. Generally by the 1st of August, the flow from this stream is very small, and, as a result, the school can only cultivate 40 or 50 acres of land. Last year the school succeeded in raising 5 tons of hay and 45' tons of potatoes and a large amount of vegetables. There seems to be a large underground supply of water, and if we could install one or two pumping plants and also install some additional concrete flumes, we would be able to inigate at least 150 acres of land, and then the school farm would be able to pro- IKDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 223 duce everything that the school uses that cafa be raised in this section, and we could also sell quite a large surplus. From a business standpoint this |4,000 would pay big returns every year. Without this appropriation, we can not raise sufficient amount of VMious products, nor can we maintain a sufficiently large dairy herd to supply the ^=^°°1- 3^18 $4,000 IS urgently needed and should be included in the bill by all means. The estimate also provides for $25,000 for new dormatory building. At this time the small nrls and small boys' dormitories, dining room, kitchen and bakery are all in one building, known as the main building. This building was the first to be erected and was poorly constructed and arranged . It is in such a condition as to be a disgrace to the troyernment. Not only this, but it is a dangerous building in which to quarter children m case of fire. No one with any regard for his own safety would stop over- mght m a hotel constructed as this building is and as dangerous as it is. On several occasions this building has caught fire and only by prompt action have we been able to prevent It from burning. If this building should take fire at night and was not promptly discovered, no doubt some of the children would burn up, although we take every precaution to prevent such a tragedy. If this $25,000 is retained in the bill we will be able to build additions to the large girls' and large boys' dormatories and thus be able to have first-class buildings for them and be able to accommodate about 400 children. Since there are so many Indian children in the State without any school facilities, it would seem that the Government should by all means provide school facilities for these children. The Nevada Indians have never received any assistance from the Government, with exception of some school advantages, and they have but little land of any value, and therefore it is a very difficult matter for these Indians to live. By giving these boys and girls the proper education and industrial training they will be able to make a living and become useful citizens of the State. I would like to see the bill contain the following, and the same justification would hold good as for the Indian Office estimate, namely: "For the support and education of 350 Indian pupils at the Indian School, Carson City, Nev., including the pay of the superintendent, $60,700; for general repairs and improvements, $12,000; for irrigating school farm, $4,000; for addition to dormitories, $35,000; for new equipment, $3,000; in all, $114,700." If we could secure the above amount, we would be able to increase the capacity of the school to at least 400 pupils. Department op the Interior, United States Indian Service,. Carson Indian School, Stewart, Nev., February 9, 1916. Hon. Key Pittman, United l^ates Senate, Washington, D. C. My Dear SE^fATOR: I have received a copy of the Indian bill as introduced into the House, and I note that the House bill carries an appropriation for 280 pupils for the Carson School, and also $4,000 for irrigating school farm. I am, of course, pleased that the House has made this addition, as I hardly expected any addition in the House bill. However, we should have the entire amount of the Indian Office esti- mate. It provides, as you know, for 300 pupils and $25,000 for a new dormitory. I am sure that these items could be easily justified and, in fact, much larger approprl- tion could be justified, much easier than a number of the items that the House com- mittee has allowed. In a number of cases the House committee has allowed money in excess of the estimate. I wish to call your attention to the following, as shown by the report. No. 87, Sixty-fourth Congress, first session, House of Representatives: Under the head of Minnesota, you will find that the office estimated for the Pipe- stone Indian School the amount of $51,725; while the committee allowed $61,675 or $9,950 more than the estimate of the office. You will find by referring to the report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1915, that the Pipestone School only had an average attendance of 184, while they have an appro- priation for 225 pupils. By the same report you will find that the Carson School had an average attendance of 256 and an appropriation for only 250 pupils. It will be noted that the attendance at Carson was six above the appropriation while the Pipestone School was 31 below the appropriation. Under the head of New Mexico, you will find that the office submitted estimate for the Indian school at Albuquerque, N. Mex., amounting to $97,400, and the House committee allowed the entire amount. Under the head of North Dakota, you will find that the office submitted an estimate for the Indian school at Bismarck, N. Dak., an amount of $22,200 and the House com- 224 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. mittee has allowed 156,175, or an amount in excess of the estimate of $33,975. Evi- dently Congressman Norton was able to get the House committee to accept his ideas in regard to Bismarck. By referring to the report of the commissioner on page 160, you will note that the Bismarck school had an average attendance of 89 pupils and it had an appropriation for 100 pupils. Under the head of South Dakota, you will find that the office submitted an estimate for the Indian school at lierre, S. Dak., amounting to $55,000, and the House Com- mittee allowed f55,750. The Indian Office estimate for the Indian school at Eapid City, S. Dak., amounting to $51,000, while the amount of $83,500 was allowed, or $32,500 was allowed in excess of the estimate. Under the head of Wisconsin the Indian Office estimated for the Indian School at Tomah, Wis., the amount of $53,825, and the House committee allowed $56,125, or $2,300 was allowed in excess of the eatimate. In every case where the committee has allowed more than the office estimated for, the conditions do not demand this increase nearly as much as the conditions at Carson demand the Indian Office estimates. In fact, in view of the larger amount that the House committee has allowed in this action in excess of the estimate, it seems to me that you would be justified in having your committee bring in an amendment to the House bill increasing the amount to be appropriated to this school, twenty- five or thirty thousand dollars in excess to the office estimates. Certainly lie House committee can offer no better reasons for its action than you and your committee can offer for your action. I know that you will do your very best to secure what the office estimated for and I hope that you can secure even more, but if you can get the amount estimated by the office, I will be satisfied. Please advise me if I can furnish you any other information that will be of any benefit in securing what we desire. It appears to me that in view of the action of the House committee that you should be able to get all that we want. Before I left Wadhington I had a, talk with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and he stated to me that if it was necessary that he would appear before the committee and urge the appropriation for this school as set out in the estimates. I would sug- gest, Senator, that you ask the commissioner to appear before your committee when you are considering items covering the Carson School. I would be very much pleased if you would send me a copy of the hearings before the House Committee on Indian Affairs, and also if you would write me whenever anything new takes place in regard to the Indian bill. I hope that you can have your committee bring in the amendment in accordance with my letter of January 28. Very truly, yours, 'Jas. B. B,oyce, Siiperintendent. Senator Pittman. In this connection I will say that I think Mr. Royce is one of the best men we have ever had in the State in connec- tion with Indian affairs. I went all over the State with him in my recent trip to Nevfeda, and I personally substantiate everything he says in these letters and in his report. He has taken hold of that school, which had run down frightfully, and very greatly improved it. Senator Page. What do these letters prove ? Senator Pittman. Just what we ask in the estimates. They were not allowed in the House. I do not desire to take up the time of the committee in reading them or telling the committee what I personally saw. Suf&ce it to say that I sustain everything Mr. Royce has said, from a personal examination. (The following petitions are here printed in full by permission of the committee:) September 8, 1915. Hon. Francis G. Newlands, Hon. Key Pittman, United States Senators from Nevada. Hon. E. E. Roberts, United States Representative from Nevada. We, the undersigned, citizens and residents of the State of Nevada, respectfully represent and petition as follows: The Carson Indian school, situated at Ormsby County, Nev., is built to accom- modate 286 pupils, but the appropriation allows for only 250. It is at present caring for 265 Indian children of school age in somewhat crowded quarters. According to INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 225 the report of the Federal Bureau of Indian Service, there are 1,408 Indian children of school age in Nevada^ and of this number, 737 are without any school facilities. With- out educatioial advantages these children are liable to become a public charge. The institution at Ste ,vart is capable of being enlarged and its staff augmented so that these uncared for children may receive its benefits. The work of the t^'arson Indian school is most highly commended by all who are familiar with it, and the undersigned desire to see its accommodations enlarged and its appropriation increased so that its ad- vantages may extend to all the Indian children of the State. We therefore respectfully petition your active support of an appropriation by Con- gress of an adequate sum, for the purpose of enlarging the capacity of the Carson Indian school to at least 500, to the end that educational advantages may be provided for Indian children who at present are deprived of the opportunity of attending school. (Signatures omitted.) To the honorable the United States Senate and House of Representatives, Washing- ton, D C. The undersigned citizens of the State of Nevada, acting as jurors in the United States District Court at Carson City, respectfully represent to your honorable bodies that there are many hundreds of homeless nonreservation Indians in the State of Nevada, including the entire tribe of Washoes in number about 650, besides Pah Utes, Shoshones, and members of other tribes; that trachoma, tuberculosis, syphilis, and other contagious and infectious diseases are common among them, caused largely by bad sanitation, malnutrition, and general lack of the necessities of life, to check and prevent which, both for the welfare of the Indians and of the white people with whom they come in contact and to encourage among these uncared for Indians indutry and the habit of self-support, we hereby earnestly and humbly petition the Oongre: s of the United States to appropriate $100,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be administered and expended by the Interior Department for the purchase of lands for homes suitably situated at points where there are Indians to earn their live- lihood and where necessary to supply said homeless Indians with tools, farm imple- ments, etc., of such character as will tend to make them independent and self- respecting persons. As members of tliis jury we have opportunity for special knowledge upon this subject and we are deeply impressed by the necessity of proper care both for the sa' e of the Indians and of the white people who are thrown into close and constant rela- tions with them. (Signatures omitted.) RELIEF OF STARE m'GILLIS. Senator Gronna. There is an item in the bill which seeks to take care of an old Indian by the name of Starr McGillis. If the com- mittee wiU refer to pages 288, 289, and 290 they will find Mr. Meritt's justification for this item. The item was under consideration when the committee took a recess, and it seems that it was not taken up again. I do not know what has happened, Mr. Meritt. Did this go out on the floor of the House or did it go out in committee ? Mr Meritt. I forget now whether it went out in committee or on the floor of the House. It is a very deserving item and we would Uke very much to have it in the biU. „ ^, . . ,, ,i , The Chairman. May I interrupt you ? This is a matter that was given very careful consideration when we were considermg the House billlast year. . ». .„^ t.^ j j. + Senator Geonna. It appropriates $1,500 It does not seem to have been discussed by Mr. Meritt; at least I do not see it m the hearings. 31362—16 ^15 226 INDIAK APPROPBIATION BILL. Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we simply submitted our justification for it. Senator Geonna. And then they took a recess, and it was not taken up again. Senator Cuhtis. I understand it is for the purpose of takmg up a mortgage. Senator Geonna. It is to redeem a mortgage given by Starr McGiUis. Senator Cxjetis. WTio gave the mortgage ? Senator Geonna. It is to authorize the department to redeem the mortgage. Senator CxmTis. Was it authorized by the department ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. This is a condensed statement of this case: Starr McGiUis lived on this land for a great many years. Like a great many other Indians he did not look after the title to this land, and a white man came along and homesteaded the Indian's allotment, and the white man, it seems, placed improvements on the Indian's land, and got title to it through the General Land Office. In the meantime the white man transferred this property to another white man, and there was a mortgage given on this property to an innocent purchaser, and the matter was again called to the attention of the General Land Office, and it was finally decided that the Indian had a preference right to this land, but in view of the fact that the mortgage had been given by the white man and an innocent party had lost $1,500 on this property, it was deemed proper that this innocent man should be reimbursed the money that had been lost on the property on this land. Senator Pittman. Due to the carelessness of the Government in not investigating this subject before making the patent. (The item was agreed to.) (Whereupon the committee adjourned to meet at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Wednesday, February 23, 1916,) INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. WEDNESDAY, EEBRTJARY 23, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affaies, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present : Senators Ashurst (chairman) , Owen, Lane, Myers, Cur- tis, Page, and Gronna. The Chairman. I understand that Dr. Crafts is present and de- sires to be heard this morning on an item on page 47 of the bill with regard to the Sioux Treaty. The committee will now hear Dr. Crafts. STATEMENT OF DR. WILBUR F. CRAFTS. Dr. Crafts. Mr. Chairman, as the actual value of testimony de- pends upon who presents it, I ought to say I am a member of the National Reform Bureau, an organization of about 15,000 members, scattered throughout the country. Senator Page. Dr. Crafts, I want to do everything I can for you, and I shall be very glad to hear you this morning; but it is those who are sick who need a physician, not those who are well. I am afraid you are wasting your time here in considering this matter when it ought to come up before a larger membership. I under- stand this is the use of money for sectarian schools. Dr. Crafts. Yes, sir. Senator Page. I presume Senator Ashurst, Senator Curtis, and myself have our minds fully fixed in this matter, and I would there- fore really prefer to have the discussion come up when there is a larger membership here. I can say to you that the probabilities are very remote that what you say here, which goes into this record, will be read. Dr. Crafts. I know. I have spoken to 60 hearings,' and I realize that the presentation must be made to a full membership. I should be very glad to continue to-morrow morning. The Chairman. Whenever it suits your convenience, Dr. Crafts, the committee will hear you. Dr. Crafts. The committee will be in session to-morrow morning, will it? The Chairman. Yes, sir. 227 228 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Dr. Crafts. Then, perhaps, I will get word to some Senators who are friends of mine. When they know that a special subject is com- ing up there is usually a larger attendance. Senator Page. I want you to distinctly understand that what I am saying is in your own interest. Dr. Crafts. I understand. Senator. Senator Curtis. I think Senator Page's suggestion is a good one. Dr. Crafts. I simply want to bring the facts fully to the commit- tee ; so I will come back to-morrow morning at perhaps 11 o'clock. (Dr. Crafts was thereupon excused.) CROW INDIAN RESERVATION. Senator Curtis. I desire to ask the commissioner a question with respect to the Crow item. I notice from your report last year that a good deal of their tribal funds — the trust funds — were used. Why did you use their money instead of having the Government make appropriation for all that is required? Mr. Meritt. We used their money under an act of Congress which permits the Secretary of the Interior to use the proceeds from grazing in such manner as he may deem to be for the best interest of the Indians. Senator Curtis. That is from the grazing? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Cuetis. And you think you ought to use that money in paying for help on the reservation and instruction, and things of that kind, for the Crows, do you? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that has been the policy of Congress for a number of years. Where the Indians have ample resources they l^ay the expenses of the reservation out of their funds rather than to ask for a gratuity appropriation from Congress. Senator Curtis. Now, another question. I am told that you make blanket leases up there for grazing lands, and that in some of those leases the lands allotted to members of the tribe are included, and that you make a per capita payment of the money and distribute the whole thing to the tribe, but that you do not give the individual Indian the amount he or she would be entitled from the rental of that surplus land allotted to them within the grazing lease. Is that so? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; that is not the case. Senator Curtis. Will you look that up and be sure on that point ? Mr. Meritt. I am sure of it now. I have the information in my mind at this time. Senator Curtis. Then I wish you would make a statement with respect to that because it has been represented to me from two or three sources that that was so, and I would like to know fully, if you can state, just what has been done in that regard. Mr. Meeitt. The department has very recently approved leases on grazing lands within the Crow Reservation. There are about 1,700 Indians on that reservation, a large number of whom have been allotted in the various localities on the reservation. These allotments are included within the grazing area covered by the leases that have been approved. INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. 229 Senator Curtis. You mean by that their surplus allotment, the allotment of 380-acre grazing lands, or 280, whatever it is? Mr. Meeitt. Sometimes their surplus, as well as their homestead allotments are included. Under our method of leasing that land the Indian is permitted to fence his allotment if he desires to use it, and if he does not desire to use it, we require the cattle men to pay him, I think, 10 cents an acre for the grazing land that is not fenced. The Indian receives compensation for the grazing on his allot- ments, as well as sharing in the proceeds from the grazing on the tribal lands. We have recently re-leased the grazing lands on the Crow -Reservation for the highest price that has ever been received for grazing on that reservation. Senator CtrRTis. The point I would like to get at is whether or not you give to the allottee his or her share of the money that would come from a general lease that included his or her land? Mr. Meritt. We do. The Chairman. We had left over on Monday one Arizona item which will not be ready until to-morrow. There is one Nevada item ; are you ready with respect to that ? Mr. Meritt. The Secretary has directed that an adverse report be made on that item. The Chairman. The $100,000 item ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; on the claim item that Senator Pittman wanted to incorporate into the bill. As I understand it, the $100,000 item was agreed to by the committee. The Chairman. But on the claim item the Secretary has made an adverse report? Mr. Meritt. He will make an adverse report. The Chairman. Exactly what was the item ? I have forgotten it. Mr. Meritt. It was a claim for occupancy of lands by Certain Indians, the land being owned by a white man. Senator Page. Where does it come in this bill ? Mr. Meritt. It is an amendment offered by Senator Pittman which was not included in our estimates. The Chairman. It is Calendar No. 79. Of course, while the report of the department is all-conclusive, either for or against legislation, still I apprehend that in view of the department's reconunendation, which is unfavorable, some Senator would make a point of order, and the point would lie against the amendment. RELIEF OF JOHN E. WOODS. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, before we proceed with the regular work, I desire to say that I was instructed the other day to make a favorable report on a separate bill in the case of the claim of John E. Woods. On investigation I observed that the bill had been introduced' and had been referred to the Committee on Claims. I secured an order in the Senate, day before yesterday— Saturday morning withdrawing it from the Committee on Claims and re- ferring it to this committee. With the approval of the committee I will make a favorable report, then. Senator Page. What bill is that? t ,. -c. w j Senator Walsh. It is the claim of John £;. Woods. 230 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. Senator Page. Does it appear here? The Chairman. Yes; we had it before the committee, and dis- cussed it at some length. Senator Walsh. It was in the form of an amendment to the appro- priation bill. The Chairman. It is Calendar No. 113. Did you not hear the cor- respondence which was read from the department ? If I remember accurately this man was employed in Montana and was relieved from his employment under charges. The charges were carefully investi- gated and found to be without foundation. Senator Page. Yes ; I remember it very well. The Chairman. And the committee requested Senator Walsh to make a report on the bill as a substantive bill. He found that it was before the Committee on Claims and he secured an order in the Senate transferring this bill to this committee, and the Senator now seeks the reassurance of the committee that the committee desires it reported favorably. Senator Page. I would like to know a little more about it. How much do you allow him? Do you allow him his full pay when he is suspended? Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Is that right? Is it not to be supposed that the man had some means of earning something so that he should only be made whole for his loss? Senator Walsh. I went all over that with you, Senator, and pre- sented the whole matter, just exactly what was said about it. The Chairman. The committee authorized the Senator from Mon- tana to report the bill before upon a unanimous vote after full dis- cussion. Do not thrash old straw again. Senator Walsh. I will say to Senator Page that the correspond- ence shows that Mr. Linnen, the inspector for the department, went there for the purpose of investigating conditions and found there was no just charge against the line rider, but that there were grounds for charges against the superintendent who had ordered him sus- pended. Those were investigated and the superintendent was re- moved, and he was restored to the service, and is now in the em- ploy of the Government on the Blackfeet Reservation. He says Mr. Linnen told him that he could hold himself at all times in readiness, and, accordingly, he refused employement at the rate of $75 per month during the period — his salary being $60 per month. The Chairman. The Senator from Montana will report the bill favorably from this committee in accordance with its order of five days ago. apache INDIANS, Mr. Meritt. There are several items in Oklahoma that were not finally adopted. The first item is on page 35, after line 3. The item, which was left out of the bill in the House, is as follows : For continuing the relief and settlement of the Apache Indians formerly con- fined as prisoners of war at Fort Sill Military Reservation, OlJlahoma, on lands in Oklahoma to be selected for them by the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of War, $40,000 ; to be expended under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of War may prescribe, and to be immediately available and to remain available until expended. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 231 Senator Pace. Is this not an item, Mr Commissioner, that the Senator from New Mexico has especially opposed ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; this item will not affect New Mexico. It will benefit the Indians in Oklahoma. You will remember that three years ago the Indians on the- Fort Sill Military Reservation were given an option as to where they wanted to locate. A part of those Indians preferred to go to the Mescalero Reservation, N. Mex., and a part desired to remain in Oklahoma on the condition that we would purchase land for them in that State. We have purchased land for all the Indians who expressed a desire to remain in Oklahoma, ex- cept 13 minors and 3 heads of families. Under the regulations approved by the Secretary of the Interior and the Secretary of War, it was agreed that land to the value of $3,000 should be given to the heads of families, and that land to the value of $2,000 should be given to the minors. If we can get this appropriation it will enable us to complete the work of settling the Fort Sill Indians on this land in Oklahoma. Senator Page. How many did you say there were of them? Mr. Meeitt. Thirteen minors and three heads of families, if I remember correctly, that have not as yet been provided for. Senator Page. How many of the Fort Sill Indians remain in Oklahoma ? Mr. Meeitt. There were 82 members who elected to remain in Oklahoma and about 180 members who preferred to go to the Mescalero Reservation in New Mexico. The justification for this item appears on page 302 of the House Hearings. Senator Page. Did the House decline to approve ? Mr. Meeitt. I think it was not included in the bill as reported to the House. It is clearly for the purpose of carrying out an agreement with these Indians who have been removed from the Fort Sill Mili- tary Reservation. Senator Page. How much is to be paid out in all for them now ? Mr. Meeitt. Congress has appropriated about $150,000 heretofore. Senator Page. Senator Owen, have you a personal knowledge with regard to this matter ? Senator Owen. Well, these prisoners were brought in as prisoners of war — as I remember it they were part of the Geronimo band ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. And the Government took them as prisoners and took them up there and has made no adequate provision for giving them land. It is proposed, as I understand, to buy some of the land from the people who die, from the Indians who die there — to buy land for them and give them homesteadsl such as these other people have out in that southwestern country. The Kiowa, Co- manche and Apache Reservation is where the people are located. I thinli the Government ought to take care of them because they were brought there as prisoners*and they are wards of the Government. Senator Page. Now, having brought them there and bought them lands, you are now asking an appropriation of $40,000? Senator Owen. These individuals did not have any land given Mr Meeitt. This is for the purpose of purchasing land for those Indians who liave not heretofore been provided with allotments. 232 INDIAN APPR0PEIATI03Sr BILL. Senator Page. If the land is purchased, will they be a subject of further expense to the Government ? Mr. Meeitt. Practically no further expense. Senator Page. All right. Senator Owen. It occurs to me that where a death takes place amongst those people whom the Government is supporting, that it might net be out of order to have those dead estates used for the purpose of taking care of those people without taking their property and then transferring it under the usual laws of inheritance. Could we not do that? Mr. Meritt. Where an Indian dies, of course the land will go to his heirs. We are buying allotments of deceased Indians with money heretofore appropriated for these Fort Sill Indians, and pay- ing the money to the heirs of the deceased allottees. Senator Owen. The point I was making is this: That the (lov- ernment, in taking care of these people — ^they have appropriated money for the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apaches, for instance, and have been taking care of them — might do this. We buy this land, for instance, but if those people die then this land may go to other people entirely that we are not under any obligation to take care of. That is the point I was making. ' Mr. Meritt. Under the law the land will go to the heirs of these Apache Indians, and, of course, those heirs will be wards of the Government. Senator Owen. Of course they are being born all the time. I was just thinking that we might economize in some way on it. Senator Walsh. The idea suggested by the Senator from Oldahoma occurs to me as possessing considerable merit. These reservations are intact, and allotments have been made, as I understand ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the Kiowa lieservation is not intact. We have sold quite a large amount of surplus land. Allotments have been made to the Indians on the Kiowa Reservation, but these Fort Sill Apache Indians were formerly located on the Fort Sill Reserva- tion without any title to allotment. Senator Walsh. I understand that Senator Owen is now making the suggestion that in the case of the deaths of the Indians to whom allotments have been made, instead of selling their allotments and dividing up the proceeds among their heirs, it might be advisable to allow those allotments to revert to the Government and to utilize them for such contingencies as this. Senator Curtis. That would not be fair . at all, Senator, because those Indians, under an agreement, agreed that their surplus land might be sold, and they agreed to take an allotment and a condi- tional title which should finally result in a fee simple title. Now, if they die before the patents are issued their heirs are entitled to the allotment or what it is worth, and it would be unfair to take a new tribe in and sive a new tribe that property. Senator Walsh. Undoubtedly, if this is the result of something in the nature of an agreement or treaty by which they give up some- thing to which they are otherwise entitled, of course the agreement should be carried out in perfect good faith. But take the Crowb, for instance. The reservation is intact but allotments have been made. Now, we will say, here is a man with four or five children, INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 233 each of them getting 320 acres of land. We will say he has f our children and each of them get 320 acres of land— the four children get 320 acres and his wife gets 320 acres. That is six times 320, which ]£ 1,920 acres of land they get. Now, we will say that there is not one of them who has done any cultivation or who has made any par- ticular improvement on any of the lands. One of the children dies and its land is sold and the balance divided up amongst the brothers and sisters, or the father and mother. Or, suppose the father dies; the area of each of the others is thus enhanced. I do not really see the policy of it. I do not see why that is. They are given as much land in the first place as it is believed they can successfully take care of, and considerable liberality has been displayed with respect to the amount. Three hundred acres are given them on the reservation. Senator Page.- What would be the effect, Senator, if another child were born ? Senator Walsh. If another child were born the laAv provides for another allotment out of the sale of the excess land. Senator Curtis. How many of those are remaining who have not received allotments? Mr. Meritt. We have 3 heads of families and 13 minors. Senator Curtis. Is that all ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. This appropriation will enable us to pro- vide land for all the Fort Sill Indians who preferred to remain in Oklahoma. It is simply for the purpose of completing the work already begun. Senator Owen. I do not wish to offer any objection to it. I was merely thinking of the policy of dealing with this matter, where we are dealing with these people really as wards. It seems to me the old Indian system where they Avere classed as Indians was the wise system. The Indians were absolutely right about it, and that was when a man died he died out of the estate, and when he was born he was born into the estate automatically. That was the old Indian system, and "it is the right one from the Indian's point of view, and it is the right one as long as the Indians are in a communal condition. It is only when they are transferred from the communal condition to the individual self-directing citizenship that the allotment system is justified. Now, we are dealing with these Apaches. We are compelled, in order to give them a place upon which to live, to furnish them with land, and when we come to buy it now, under conditions where the land has increased in value by the virtue of white settlement and by virtue of the condition of civilization, the building of roads, churches, and schools, and all the conveniences of civilized life, these lands rise in value, and we are compelled to pay more for them. I was thinking of the matter under that old communal system ; my mind went back to that system, and I thought where people died we might use the same land just as ihe Indians would have used it for the new gen- erations. Senator Walsh. Senator Owen, there is only one objection to that, as it occurs to me, and that is that some of the Indians exhibit in- dustry and intelligence and frugality and improve their places. Senator Owen. Yes ; that is true. 234 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BICL. Senator Walsh. Now, if the father died, leaving an improved place, it scarcely seems right that that improved place should be taken in. But in case of land that has not been improved at all and that is the condition in 95 per cent of the cases, certainly 90 per cent of the cases, I think Senator Owen's idea is deserving of very careful consideration. Senator Owen. We are both right about it. It is the difference between the two methods of human life. One is where you are dealing with them from the old Indian standpoint, and their old method which they gave up with great reluctance ; they did not want to change it ; they wanted to keep it so that the new children should be born into a landed right, and so that when a man died his estate went back to the living generation of his particular brethern. It was a wise provision and the Indians in Oklahoma gave up that method with great reluctance. They felt it would interfere with their happi- ness and with their welfare, and many men believe that the mor- tality which has taken place among those people has been due to the extinguishment of the spiritual aspirations they had for the old life; that they felt cut off; they felt that they had not attached' them- selves with the new methods, and they lost courage and spirit and that resulted in a great mortality. I do not know whether that is true, but I do know that the mortality has been very great. The Chairman. What shall we do with this item ? Senator Owen. I move that it be agreed to. (The motion was agreed to.) REMOVAL or RESTRICTIONS, QTJAPAW AGENCY, OKLA. Senator Gronna. Mr. Chairman, I understand that Senator Ster- ling is present and desires to submit some matter in which he is interested. The Chairman. The committee will be glad to hear Senator Ster- ling. STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS STEIILIN&, UNITED STATES SENATOR FEOM SOUTH DAKOTA. Senator Sterling. Mr. Chairman, I have a matter that I would like to present very briefly. It is a bill [S. 1728] : To amend section one of an act approved March third, nineteen hundred and nine (Thirty- fifth Statutes at Large, page seven hundred and fifty-one), entitled "An act for the removal of restrictions on alienation of lands of allottees of the Quapaw Agency, Okla- homa, and the sale of all tribal lands, school, agency, or other lands on any of the reser- vations within the jurisdiction of such agency, and for other purposes." Be it enacted by the Senate and Souse of Representative of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That section one of an act approvefl March third, nineteen hundred and nine, entitled "An act for the removal of restric- tions on alienation of lands of allottees of the Quapaw Agency, Oklahoma, and the sale of all tribal lands, school, agency, or other lands on any of the reserva- tions within the jurisdiction of such agency, and for other purposes," be amended to read as follows : " Section 1. That the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, and he is hereby, authorized to remove the restrictions as to sale, encumbrance, or taxation from all the allotted lands of any adult allottees of any of the tribes of Indians, including the Modocs, belonging to the Quapaw Indian Agency, in the State ofOklahoma, whenever he shall be satisfied that any Indian allottee is INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 235 competent to manage his or her afEalrs, but said lands from which the restric- tions nave been removed shall not be liable for the satisfaction of any debt contracted pnor to the removal of said restrictions by the Secretary." Senator Sterling. It is for the purpose of removing the restric- tions upon the sale of adult Indian lands, and if you will permit me, I will ]ust call attention to the favorable report of the Secretary of the Interipr, Avhich I will ask to be inserted in the record. (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows :) Febeuaey 1, 1916. '^^^i^^t^ Senatok: I have tlie honor to reply further to your letter of Janu- ^^'^ i i ' '^^'^^•Pt of which was acknowledged on January 14, inclosing a copy of Senate bill 1728 and asking that you committee be favored with my views on the proposed legislation. The legislation proposed relates to amending section 1 of the act of Congress approved March 3, 1909 (35 Stat. L., 751), entitled "An act for the removal of restrictions on alienation of lands of allottees of the Quapaw Agencv, Okla., and the sale of all tribal lands, school, agency, or other lands on any of the reservations within the jurisdiction of such agency, and for other purposes." The purpose of the amendment is to enable the Secretary of the Interior to remove restrictions from any part or all of the allotted lands of adult allottees, particularly the mixed bloods, of any of the tribes, including the Modocs, belong- ing to the Quapaw Agency in the State of Oklahoma, whenever he shall be satisfied that any allottee is competent to manage his or her own affairs. The disadvantages of the present law are: First. It works a hardship upon many of the Indians inasmuch as some of them, the children of the Eastern Shawnee and Wyandotte Tribes, had only 40 acres allotted to them, while others have remaining only 40 acres of their allotments, and they are unable to dispose of the land or even to encumber it when. In many cases, it would be of great benefit to them if it were possible for the restrictions to be removed and the land sold under departmental supervision and the proceeds used for their support or relief. Second. It authorizes the removal of restrictions by the Secretarly only upon the application of the allottee, and the department can not take the initiative in the matter. I am of the opinion that an Indian, if competent and capable of maintaining control and supervision over all of his lands, except a tract of not less than 40 acres, would, in many cases at least, be competent to supervise all of his land. Several concrete cases in the past have come to the attention of the department where it would have been very beneficial to these allottees to have had authority of law to remove the restrictions from their lands. I am in favor of an amendment of this character and believe that steps should be taken as early as practicable looking to the enactment of such legis- lation. As early as January, 1912, and since that time, this department recom- mended enactment of such a law. I have the honor, therefore, to recommend that Senate bill 1728 receive the early and favorable consideration of your committee and of Congress. Cordially yours, Feanklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Heney F. Ashurst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United. States Senate. Senator Walsh. What is the trouble with the present law ? The present law gives the Secretary the proper authority, does it not ? Senator Owen. That is with respect to the Five Tribes, but not with respect to the Quapaw Agency. I think this is proper, to give that power there. But when we were discussing this matter a day or two ago it was pointed out that we were expending $200,000 a year in the administration of the affairs of the Indians down in eastern Oklahoma, in administrative expenses, and that a very con- siderable part of that fund was expended on account of handling individual affairs of some twenty or thirty thousand Indians, many of whom were competent, but who were simply barred by a broad 236 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. rule of blood, that a man who was a full blood Indian, for instance, was necessarily noncompetent under the statute. Of course that is not true at all, a great many of these people who are full-bloods are competent to manage their affairs, and a great many of them are not. I was calling attention to that as one of the methods by which we were wasting a good deal of money by handling the individual affairs of persons who were competent. That, of course, would permit the secretary on the Quapaw Agency to remove the restrictions of persons that are coiiipetent. The Chairman. Is there any objection to this bill? Is there any- thing else, Senator Sterling? Senator Sterling. No, sir. The Ohairman. You will report the bill, Senator Owen? incompetent INDIANS. Senator Owen. Yes. The committee instructed me the other day, with Mr. Meritt, to draft an item in regard to the competency act, and you may recall I pointed out to the committee that we were expending a great deal of money by unnecessary duplication in the Indian Office. Every item of any consequence, wherever it takes place in the superintendency of eastern Oklahoma comes directly up here, goes to Mr. Meritt and Mr. Meritt sends it down to Mr. Howell, or somebody else, and Mr. Howell makes a report on it, and it comes back perhaps through some other person to Mr. Meritt, who probably turns it over to Commissioner Sells, and then when Mr. Sells gets an opportunity from his very busy, desk to give it attention he will give it attention and pass upon it. The slightest irregularity sends it back to the Indian Territory, to Oklahoma, then it goes through the same routine, and then comes back to Mr. Meritt, Mr. Meritt sends it to Mr. Howell, and from Mr. Howell it comes back to Mr. Meritt, or perhaps from Mr. Howell to some subordinate clerk, I do not know who, and if they find the item in due and ancient form they send it back through Mr. Howell and from Mr. Meritt back to the superintendent. It is very interesting and very profitable to gentlemen who have nothing else to do. I do not mean that the commissioner has not anything to do; he has enough to do; and he has too much to do. The fact is the duplication of this work is in my judgment — and I do not mean to say it disrespectfully', because I am only speaking of a system, but I think it is idiotic and it is certainly very wasteful of the public funds. Now, if it passes through these various gentlemen satisfactorily to each of them, it then goes over to the Interior De- partment to the Secretary of the Interior and is by his secretary distributed to probably Mr. Jones, Mr. Secretary Jones or Mr. Sec- retary Sweeney, and Mr. Secretary Sweeney then transmits it to the Indian Division of the Interior Department for further considera- tion, and it is then sent to the proper clerk, and that clerk, in due course of time — when his desk will permit him to do it — acts upon it, and it then comes back to Secretary Sweeney and from Secretary Sweeney, I suppose, goes to Secretary Lane. Perhaps Secretary Sweeney would be permitted to act on it. If so, it would then go back to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs with the approval of INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 237 the proper dignitary of the Interior Department, and then would be transmitted down to Mr. Gabe Parker, the superintendent; and Mr. Irabe Parker would then transmit it to the proper clerk, I suppose with a proper entry, and we would then have action. It, of course takes a great deal of time, but what is more important to the Gov- ernment of the United States it takes a great deal of money to have these men employed in doing things three times for which one action would suttice. We must always keep in mind the importance of keep- ing a proper check on the local man, whoever he is, but if we were running an insurance company, and the insurance company had an agent in Oklahoma, it would have some man on the ground who would make a loan, for instance, and that man's action would be substantially final. If he did not act wisely he would be discharged as an unfit and inefficient, and that would be the remedy. But they would not provide as a remedy that everything he did had to be supervised by three different outfits on three different occasions and take a year's time to do it. The insurance company would conduct that business economically, and the Government of the United States ought to pursue the same policy, not in the Indian Office only, but in every one of these offices, so as to avoid the duplication of work. We have duplication of work over and over again, and appropria- tions come before us to do the same thing in different divisions, the effect of which is to keep employed a very large number of persons. I do not wish to discharge them, but I wish to have them employed in something that will not be duplicating something which somelDody else does. I should like the United States to get an adequate return for its money. We are using the taxes of the people of the United States here, and we are responsible right here in this committee in the discharge of our duty to the constituents we represent and to the people of the United States to expend this money economically. But the Indian Office will not allow Gabe Parker to do anything unless it has got to come back here and be supervised by them and by the Interior Department. Senator Page. Do you think it would' be safe. Senator, to leave lliese important matters to local conditions in your State? Senator Owen. I have just stated that if you have the right of ap- peal from the local officer and he fails to be efficient, and he fails to meet his duty, then I would discharge him and put somebody else there that will perform the work satisfactorily. This man, Mr. Parker, for instance, was Register of the Treasury of the United States; he had an honorable and dignified position, and he was in- vited by the Indian Office, without the suggestion from anybody in the world so far as I know — he was invited and urged to leave his post as Register of the United States Treasury to go down tJiere to handle this matter. Why should he not be trusted, pray? Is he not worthy of trust, as much so as Mr. Howell in Mr. Meritt's office ? We do not know Mr. Howell in the public eye; we do not spe hi in. He is one of the subordinates in the Indian Office. Doubtless he does the best he can. I am not criticizing Mr. Howell ; I am merely s;ieak- ing of him as one of the cogs of this duplicating machine. Senator Page. If the machine really duplicates. Senator, I am willino' to agree with you, but in almost all large lines of business the 238 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. very restrictions, the very safeguards that you have mentioned, are not regarded as duplications; they are regarded as simply safeguards which ought to be carried out. Now, I do not suppose that when this matter comes back to the office of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs that it takes a very long time to distribute it to the place where it will be finally considered. It need not. Senator Owen. It need not, but it does. Was there not sent up here last year a hundred cases of these suits pending down there for your office to report on, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. "What became of them? How long have they been in your office ? Mr. Meeitt. That involves a question of establishing a policy re- garding the disposition of those suits. Senator Owen. Very well ; how long have they been there ? Mr. Meeitt. It did take some time. Senator Owen. How long have they been there? Mr. Meritt. I could not tell you. Senator Owen. They have been there a year. Mr. Meeitt. May I make a statement ? Senator Owen. Certainly. Mr. Mekitt. Under existing law the Secretary of the Interior is required to approve oil and gas mining leases and the removal of restrictions. The superintendent gets an application from the In- dian that his restrictions be removed ; that is passed on by the field agent, and Superintendent Parker submits it with his report to the Indian Office. When that is received in the Indian Office it goes directly from the mailing room to the clerk who handles the removal of restriction cases. That paper then comes to my desk and goes from my desk direct to Secretary Sweeney. Secretary Sweeney passes on that case directly without referring it to a clerk in the In- terior Department. Senator Owen. Do you make any report on it? Mr. Meeitt. I make a recommendation. Senator Owen. Based oii the report of your clerk ? Mr. Meritt. Based on the report of the clerk and the report of the superintendent. The same method is adopted in connection with the oil leases, and I believe that Superintendent Parker, who is here, will bear me out that where there are no complications those removal- of -restrictions cases and the approval of oil leases are back in his office within 15 days from the date they are sent here by Superintend- ent Parker. Is that the case, Mr. Parker ? Mr. Paekee. Yes, sir. Mr. Meeitt. Within 15 days. Senator Owen. It has been much improved in recent years; still you are duplicating it by sending it through three different con- cerns. Mr. Meeitt. We have improved conditions very materially, Mr. Chairman. Some of those cases involve large property interests; they involve serious questions of law. Some of those oil leases cover Indian property worth a quarter of a million dollars, and we feel that we should have proper safeguards if we are going to protect the interests of the Indians. There are oil companies down there INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL. 239 fighting over these oil leases. They are bribing Indians and white people in order to get an advantage. Senator Owen. No suggestion which I made would involve a fail- ure to bring such cases to your desk. I am only speaking of the cases which are unimportant and negligible. In every case of that kind there would be an appeal from one side or the other. That is what I have said, when anybody objects it will come automatically, but where nobody objects and no question is raised I do not think we ought to go to the expense of duplicating it. Where these large values are involved, of course, it is necessary to have these safe- guards, and as to those I quite fully agree with you. Mr. Meeitt. a bill has been introduced in the House by Repre- sentative Hastings, of Oklahoma. Commissioner Sells has given that bill his careful attention, and he authorizes me to say he is very much opposed to the enactment of that bill. Report is now being prepared in the department on that bill and will be submitted to the House committee at an early date, and if there is any similar amendment to be offered to this bill Conunissioner Sells would like it to be referred to the department, so that the department may have an opportunity to express its opinion in a formal way. Senator Owen. The department always tries to enlarge its own authority. That is human nature. I do not object to its expressing through the department. I am calling the attention of this com- mittee to its responsibilities, while preserving every reasonable safe- guard to also avoid the useless expenditure of money. This bill is gradually getting bigger and bigger, and I do not feel satisfied with the enormous amounts of money we are expending and the results we are getting. I may be wrong about that ; it may be a matter of no consequence one way or the other ; but that is the way I feel. Senator Geonna. Do you not think you are wrong about that ? I think it can be improved, and, as Mr. Meritt says, improvement has been made. But there is a good deal of force in your statement. Senator, that duplication in unimportant cases should be done away with. Senator Owen. There is no doubt about it. Senator Geonna. Not only in the Indian Department and the De- partment of the Interior, but in all departments. That is why it is costing the Government at least one-third more to transact business than it does an individual. Senator Owen. Senator Aldrich made a statement on the floor of the Senate once that under proper conditions we could save $300,- 000,000. I thought then that he very greatly exaggerated, but I think if we could save $100,000,000 or could save $50,000,000 we ought to do it as a duty to our country. That is all I wish to say about it. I have not got the Hastings bill before me; I do not know exactly what its terms are, but I suppose the effect of it is to put these details more largely within the hands of the local officer in Oklahoma? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. -,-,,, Senator Owen. That is what I understand to be the purpose of it. Does it provide there should be adequate appeals to your depart- ment? 240 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILI.. Mr. Meritt. I think it provides there may be appeals in certain cases. Senator Owen. I drew- up an item which I thought would cover the question of this competency matter [reading] : That the superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes Is hereby authorized and directed to examine into the competency of the adult restricted memberp of the Five Civilized Tribes and deliver to such persons found capable of man- aging their own affairs certificates of competency. Such certificates of com- petency shall be placed on record In a volume of records of competency to be kept for that purpose, and when issued shall have the efCect of removing such persons from the class of Indians under the restriction or under governmental supervision ; And thereafter no public funds shall be expended in the adminis- tration of the individual affairs of such persons. For the payment of expenses and salaries of employees engaged in making classification herein provided, there is hereby appropriated the sum of $25,000. We are administering their private affairs now. They can not build a house unless we build it for them. We tell them exactly what to do. If they buy a cow or a horse we pass on that. It is some- what expensive to do it but we do it, and it is part of this $200,000 we are appropriating here that goes to that purpose. Senator Page. I am jealous, Senator, lest the influences that would surround that kind of transactions in Oklahoma may be bad. I may be Avrong about it; I simply feel that instinctive jealousy. You are taking the responsibility from a place where it ought to be and trans- ferring it to a place where there are surrounding influences that are unsafe. The Chairman. What will you do with the amendment, Senators? Senator Pittman. Would it be the tendency of the superintendent to grant them these individual rights, or would it be the contrary? Senator Owen. I think it would be the contrary, from the ordinary experience we have had there. You know pretty well I should say, Mr. Comimssioner, the extent to which recommendations have been made in regard to removal of restrictions. It has been- done very cautiously, has it not ? ]\ir. Meritt. Yes, sir; the superintendent has been conservative. Senator Owen. Does the department reject many of those applica- tions where he recommends them ? Mr. Meritt. Not very frequently. We usually follow the recom- mendation of the superintendent. Occasionally we return his reporf for further consideration, or disapproA'e his recommendations; but we usually follow his recommendations. Senator Page. Do you know of the bill in the House, and are the two bills substantially alike ? Senator Owen._ I do not have exactly in mind what the substance of the Hastings bill is. I understand its general purpose. Senator Page. Might it not be well to let that bill come over to us and have it considered in connection with your proposed amendment? Senator Owen. Yes. I was suggesting here an appropriation for the purpose of passing upon these questions of competency with a view of diminishing the future appropriations ,on this bill. We used to appropriate $250,000 down there for the administrative end of that agency, and we reduced that to $175,000, while the work in reality is getting heavier because of these individual estates. What Mr. Meritt says is true regarding the oil field there. Some of these estates are worth a quarter of a million dollars and involve oil leases, etc. INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 241 In those cases the administration of those individual properties is animportant matter and requires attention and continued attention. benator Tage. Would it not be a matter of courtesy, as long as the commissioner has asked Senator Owen. Oh, yes. Senator Page. It seems to me we ought not pass upon your matter Senator Owen. No ; I should be very pleased to have their report made, but I am very familiar with the administration of Indian tribes. I was m that service myself as United States Indian agent *^?°? T *° '^^8^, and I have been in touch with it ever since, and think I understand the methods of administration quite well. That is the reason I called attention to the fact that there were 100 of these law cases sent up here not passed on yet, I think. Have they been, Mr. Meritt? J ^ Mr. Meeitt. Not within my knowledge. Senator Owen. I think I can say they have not. I think I know they have not been. The Chairman. Then the matter will go over until we get some report from the Secretary? Senator Owen. We might submit this to the Commissioner of In- dian Affairs and have him pass on it. I will ask that the secretary of this committee be asked to request the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to make a report on it. The Chaieman. That will be done. Is there any other item ? CLAIM legal services, CREEK NATION. Senator Owen. I have here an item which I would like to present to the committee. It is a case involving $7,000 claimed by Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford for legal services rendered to the Creek Nation. They were employed by authority of the national council of the Creek Nation approved January 7, 1898, the said sum of $7,000 having been appropriated in payment of said services by an act of the national council of the Creek Nation approved October IS, 1900. I have here photographic acts of the council and the various records bearing upon it. It seems that after these services were rendered an act Avas passed requiring the acts of the council to be approved by the President, and when this act was sent up to be approved by the President it was not approved, but the council itself passed this act [reading] : Be it ciKirtcrl hii tlir. XntioiiaJ Council of the Muskogee Nation, That there be, and Is hereby, "apr)ropriatecl the sum of $7,000, out of the general funds of the Muskogee Nation not otherwise appropriated, in favor of Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford, attorneys at law, employed by authority of an act of the National Council of the Muskogee Nation, approved January 7, 1898 ; said sum, when paid, shall be full settlement of all claims against the Muskogee Nation under any contract which has been made under said act of the national council approved January 7, 1898. Said sum to be paid in accordance with such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior for the disbursement of Creek funds. Senator Page. Why was it not approved by the President? Senator Owen. It was not approved, as I understand it, because it was sent in at a later date. Let me just give you the memoranda 31362—16 16 242 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. here. The Creek National Council appropriated this money, as T have just read, in which the firm referred to was to represent them in all matters pertaining to their interests before the department at Washington and the Government, and to especially represent said nation in all habeas corpus matters pending before the courts in the Indian Territory. That was at the time of the negotiation of this agreement here, which became a statute shortly afterAvards. The Chairman. If you will pardon me, is this claim to be paid out of the Treasury of the United States or out of Indian funds ? Senator Owen. Out of Indian funds. In pursuance of this author- ity the firm did represent the nation and appeared in the courts many times as their attorneys. Senator Page. "What is the reason it has not been approved ? Why was it not adjusted in the regular course? Senator Owen. Simply because it was not in the form of a statute, I suppose. I will read you the other memoranda I have in regard to it. They are as follows [reading] : MEMORANDUM FOE SENATOK OWKK. Attached hereto is the item offered by Mr. Hastings in the House providing payment to Mr. Rutherford and his associates for their services rendered the Creelt Nation. Mr. Hastings states that he proposes to endeavor to obtain a favorable report from tlie Committee on Indian Affairs of the House on this bill. Mr. Rutherford would like for you to obtain an item in the Indian appropria- tion bill providing for the payment of $7,000. You suggested that this ought to be sent to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for a statement of facts, but I find upon examining the papers that all the fact are set forth therein by officials of the Interior Department, and are as follows : The Creek National Council by an act approved by the principal chief, January 7, 1898, appropriated $20,000 for employment of attorneys to repre- sent the Creek Nation, and authorized the principal chief to enter into a con- tract for such purpose, and a contract dated March 3, 1898, was entered into with the firm of Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford by the principal chief whereby this firm was to represent the Creek Nation in all matters pertaining to their interests and affecting their government before the Congress of the United States and the departments in Washington, and especially to represent said nation in all habeas corpus matters then pending before the courts of Indian Territory. In pursuance of this authority the firm did represent the nation and ap- peared in the courts many times as their attorneys. In addition to this it is claimed that these attorneys were largely influential in obtaining an adjust- ment between the Creek Nation and the United States by reason of which the final treaty was agreed to. In payment for services rendered the firm was given in Creek warrants $8,000, but the act of the council appropriating the money now having been submitted to the President for approval, as required by law, and as the con- tract with these parties had also not been submitted to the department as required by section 2103 of the Revised Statutes the contract was declared null and void, and the attorneys were requested to turn over at once for the benefit of the Creek Nation all the moneys, warrants, evidences of indebted- ness, and other things of value received by them from the Creek Nation under- the contract. In compliance with this direction the firm turned over about $7,000, which had been received by them from the Creek Nation for services rendered. A $1,000 warrant, not cashed, was also returned. Later the matter was again submitted to the Creek council and the council reiterated its desire to meet the obligation, which they thought they were in honor bound to pay, and passed another act, which was approved October 18, 1900, by the principal chief, providing an appropriation of $7,000 to meet the INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 243 claim. This last act of the national council was transmitted by J. George Wright, United States Indian inspector for Indian Territory, to the department; with the recommendation that it be approved. In transmitting the matter to the Secretary of the Interior the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, W. A. Jones, stated : " The said beneficiaries have rendered services to the Creek Nation, and the Creek Nation appears to be anxious to pay for such services." The Secretary, however, in transmitting the matter to the President, stated : " For the reason that these services were rendered under contract coming within the provisions of section 2103 of the Revised Statutes, but which was not executed or approved as required by that section, I respectfully recommend that the act be disapproved." Following the recommendation of the Secretary of the Interior, the President disapproved the act on November 17, 1900. J. W. B. (The item and letters referred to are here printed in full, as fol- lows:) [H. R. 10872, Sixty-fourth Congress, first session.] A BILL Mailing an appropriation to Stuart Lewis, Gordon and Rutlierford, in payment of legal services rendered by them to the Creek Nation. Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to pay to Stuart, Lewis, Gordon and Rutherford, out of any funds in the Treasury of the United States belonging to the Creek Nation, the sum of $7,000, together with interest thereon at the rate of five per centum per annum from October eighteenth, nineteen hundred, to date of payment, being in full settlement of the claim of the said Stuart, Lewis, Gordon and Rutherford against the said Creek Nation for legal services rendered the said Creek Nation employed by authority of an act of the national council of the Creek Nation, approved January seventh, eighteen hundred and ninety- eight, the said sum of $7,000 having been appropriated in payment of said services by an act of the national council of the Creek Nation, approved October eighteenth, nineteen hundred. November 1, 1900. Hon. J. Geoege Weight, United States Indian Inspector, Muskogee, Ind T. Deae Sib : Your letter of October 31, asking us to submit to you a statement of the legal services rendered by us to the Creek Nation, beginning on or about the 7th day of January, 1898, is at hand. In reply, we beg leave to state that from January, 1898, we represented the Creek Nation of Indians in all matters pertaining to the powers of their tribal government. We have been before the United States Court for the Northern District of the Indian Territory at Muskogee in many cases touching the law of interior pastures. Among the cases involving the construction of this law were Baldridge Bros. v. Creek Nation, W. F. Crabtree v. Creek Nation, D. A. Lee v. Creek Nation, and others. We appeared for, and represented the Creek Nation, in many cases touching their schools, and adjusted many conflicts between their school officers and other authorities of the Creek Nation ; we represented the Creek Nation, and appeared in court in many cases touching the question as to whether or not the passage of the Curtis bill had the effect of discharging all persons convicted by the Creek tribunals, the Curtis bill having no saving clause with reference to these pending suits. Some of these cases we were compelled to follow to the United States Court of Appeals for the Indian Territory. We represented the Creek Nation in negotiating a treaty with the Dawes Commission. We en- couraged in every way the making of this treaty, and one member of our firm was present nearly every time the treaty was under consideration. The time finally came for the approval of the treaty, and a member of this firm was present and the delegates from the Creek Nation and members of the Dawes Commission and every provision of the treaty was gone over one by one, and the approval of the Indians was secured. We feel that we were largely in- strumental in bringing these people to a point where they would treat at all 244 INDIAN" APPEOPBIA.TION BILL. with the United States Government, the former Chief Isparhecher being especially stubborn in regard to these matters. During the period of these services we were compelled to visit the town of Okmulgee during several sessions of the council, and visited the different courts trying and hearing the Issues above mentioned; this required much time, and the expenditure of much money. All of these services were rendered by us at the special Instance and request of the Creek chief, Isparhecher, and were necessary to be performed in order to protect the rights of the Creek people. The Creek treaty negotiated between the Creek people and the Dawes Com- mission, to which we referred above, did not finally become effective, although adopted by the Creek people, but, as is well known, it was largely the model and basis for the subsequent treaty actually made, and now pending before Congress. As stated above, the Creek full bloods were much averse to treating with the Government at all, and we believe that it will be conceded on all hands that the services rendered by us in bringing these full bloods to an appreciation of their* position, and fostering a friendly spirit between them and the United States Government led up to, and was, the prime cause of the treaty finally being made. Since the negotiation of the treaty above referred to, opposition in reaching an agreement with the United States Government, on the part of the full bloods, has well nigh passed away, only a few still holding out. From January, 1898, until Chief Porter was elected, we were constantly in the service of the Creek Nation. We were offered many cases against the nation which would have been lucrative to us, but we could not, of course, accept any employment of this nature, being disqualified by virtue of our employment by the Creek chief. We have not been paid for our services, and you are doubtless familiar with the facts touching our surrender to the Government, through you, of warrants held by us. We may add that this appropriation was passed at Okmulgee through the Creek council by practically an unanimous vote, and we are quite sure that the council, together with the present chief, were not only willing, but anxious that we be paid, this appropriation being in full settlement of all claims held by us against the Creek Nation for legal services. If you require us to make any further statement, please let us know without delay, as we are anxious to conform to the requirements of the department in this regard. Very truly, yours, Muskogee, Ind. T., November 7, 1900, Hon. J. Geo. Weight, United States Indian Inspector, Muskogee, Ind. T. Sie: In reply to your letter of the 31st ultimo asking information about the appropriation made by the National Council of the Creek Nation, just ad- journed, in favor of Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, and Rutherford, to pay them for services as attorneys for the Creek Nation, I have to state that their claim for services was presented to the Executive Office with the request that it be transmitted to the council for consideration; and, inasmuch as it had prior to that time been presented to the council by my predecessor. Chief Ispar- hecher, and as it was a matter that arose during his administration, I referred the council to him and to Roley Mcintosh and David Anderson, the latter two gentlemen being at that time delegates of the Creek Nation, for information respecting the matter, and the council passed the act after due Investigation (as I presume) by a committee appointed by the coxmcil for the purpose, and the act was signed by me as an act of the National Council. In submitting the matter to the council, I requested them to give it con- sideration, and should they find that if in honor they were bound for the payment of it they should make the necessary appropriation, as claims of that character grow with age. Should be department approve of this course of the Creek Council, such approval will be satisfactory to me. Very respectfully, Principal Chief Creek Nation. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 245 rn. „ c„ November 15, 1900. The Secretary or the Intebiob. Sir: I have the honor to transmit herewith an act of the Creek Counfil ^ approved by the principal chief on October 22, 1900, which appropriates the I" sum ot !^7,000 in favor of Messrs. Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, and Rutherford attorneys at law, employed by authority of an act of the National Council of the Muskogee Nation, approved by the principal chief January 7, 1898, said sum to be in full settlement of all claims against the Muskogee Nation under any contract made under said act, and provides that the same shall be paid out in accordance with such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior for the disbursement of Creek 'funds. Attached to this act is a certificate from the clerk of the house of kings (senate), showing that the vote in favor of this act by said body was 21 to 7, and that in the house of warriors (representatives) the same passed by a vote of 72 to 1. In connection with this act I have the honor to report that the act of the Creek Council, approved by the principal chief January 7, 1898, appropriated ?20,000 for the employment of attorneys to represent the Creek Nation, and authorized the principal chief to enter into a contract for such purpose, and a contract, dated March 3, 1898, was entered into with Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, & Rutherford by the then principal chief of the Creek Nation, whereby they were to represent the Creek Nation in all matters pertaining to their interest and affecting their government before the Congress of the United States and the departments at Washington, and especially to represent said nation in all habeas corpus matters then pending before the court of Indian Territory, in consideration for which they were to be paid $20,000. In partial payment thereof this firm was paid in Creelc warrants $8,000, but the act of the council appropriating such money not having been submitted to the President for approval, as required by law, and as the contract with these parties had also not been submitted to the department, as required by section 2103 of the Revised Statutes, they were advised, under date of June 29, 1899, by the honorable Sec- retary of the Interior that such contract came within the provisions of section 2103 of the Revised Statutes and was, therefore, considered null and void because not executed and approved as required by that section, and they were furnished a copy of an opinion, dated June 27, 1899, rendered by the assistant attorney general and approved by the honorable Secretary, to that effect. Said attorneys were therefore requested to deliver to me within 10 days from the receipt of my communication, for the use and benefit of the Creek Nation, all the money, warrants, evidences of indebtedness, and other things of value received by them, directly or indirectly, from the Creek Nation under said contract. In compliance therewith, as per my report dated July 27, 1899, this "firm returned to me $5,988.50, and subsequently, as per my communication of February 23, 1899, I forwarded a communication from them, asking that they be allowed 30 days additional time to submit further facts with reference to the balance, $2,000, which they had received. I was advised by the depart- ment, under date of October 16, 1890, that their request to retain the $2,000 for services rendered could not be considered, and that they must comply with the demand to return all moneys received by them under said contract. Subsequently I was informed personally by the honorable Secretary that I might allow them a reasonable length of time to return this $2,000, in view of the fact that they had promptly returned $5,988.50, and in further view of their expressions to me that they were not able to deliver the balance at that time. The total amount paid them up to that time was $8,000, in warrants of $1,000 each. One of these warrants, however, was never negotiated by them. There- fore there is only $1,000 due from them under the previous order of the depart- ment above referred to. The $7,000 now appropriated is therefore to refund them for this amount, including the amount returned by them. I would respectfully refer to page 88 of the pamphlet laws of the Creek Nation, 1893 to 1899 inclusive, for information concerning the act of January 7, 1898, above referred to. In connection with the act now submitted, I addressed a communication to the principal chief on the subject, asking for further information in reference thereto and I inclose herewith his reply, in which he states that the claim of 246 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. these parties for services was presented to his office with a request that it be transmitted to the council for consideration, and as it had, prior to that tune, been presented to the council by his predecessor, and was a matter that arose during his administration, he referred it to the council, and the council passed it, after due investigation by a committee appointed for that purpose. He further states that in submitting the matter to the council he requested them to give it consideration and, should they find that if in honor they were bound for the payment of it, to make the necessary appropriations, as claims of that character grew with age. He also states that if the council's course is approved by the department, such approval will be satisfactory to him. I also requested Messrs. Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford to stibmit a statement showing the legal services rendered by them to the Creek Nation under their contract, and I inclose herewith their reply, wherein they state that from January, 1898, they represented the Creek Nation in all matters pertaining to their tribal government ; that they have been before the United , States Court for the Northern District of the Indian Territory in many cases touching the law of interior pastures, and also in other cases cited ; and that they also acted as attorneys at the time agreements were being negotiated vpith the Dawes commission, and also visited different courts trying and hearing various cases, all of which required much time and the expenditure of much money. They also state that they rendered material benefit to the Creek Nation, as also to the United States Government, in negotiating an agreement, and they state that they have not been paid for their services, the warrants having been returned to me as above set forth. I am not sufficiently familiar with the services rendered by these attorneys to make an intelligent recommendation as to the merits of this act, but inas- much as they rendered services to the Creek Nation at various times, and after having done so, the matter has now been investigated and passed upon unanimously by the Creek council, who appear to consider that they are in honor bound to pay tills claim, and as the same will undoubtedly be prosecuted by these claimants until finally adjudicated, I am inclined to recommend that the same receive favorable consideration. However, the act is respectfully submitted herewith for such consideration as the department deems proper in the premises. Very respectfully, your obedient servant, J. Geo. Weight, United States Indian Inspector for Indian Territory. (Through the Commissioner of Indian Affairs.) Department of the Interior, Office of Indian Affairs, Washington, November J6, 1900. The Secretary of the Interior. Sir ; I have the honor to transmit herewith an act of the Creek, or Muscogee, National Council, approved by the principal chief October IS. 1900, providing for an appropriation for and payment' to Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford, attorneys at law, of the sum of $7,000 for services heretofore rendered by them for the Creek Nation. This act was received in this office on November 16, 1900, together with the report of the inspector of the Indian Territory, giving a full history of the transaction, and inclosing communications received by him from the principal chief of the nation and also from the beneficiaries under the act. In view of the fact that this act was approved by the principal chief on October 18, 1900, and because it has been held by the department that the President must appro :-e it Avithin 30 days after the date of its approval by the principal chief, if at all, the office transmits it without further comment than that contained in the inspector's recommendation. It may be proper, liowever, to add that the said beneficiaries have rendered services to the Creek Nation, and the Creek people appear to be anxious to pay for such services, and that therefore the act should, if no objection thereto appears, receive the approval of the President. Very re.spectfully. your obedient servant, W. A. .Jones, Commissioner. INDIAN APPKOPEIATIOX BILL. 247 Department of the Interior, Washiiu/ton, Noremher 17, 1000. The Pkesidknt. Sir: Herewith I transmit an act ot the Creek, or Jhiseogee, National Council, approved by the principal chief October 18, 1900, jippropriating the sum of $7,000 out of the general funds of the nation to pay aiessrs. Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherfurd, attorneys, for services heretofore rendered by them to the Creek Nation. For the reason that these services -were rendered under u contract coming within the provisions of section 2103 of the Ifevised Statutes, but which was not executed or approved as required by that section, I respectfully recommend that the act be disapproved. This act has only come to my office to-day, and I find upon an examination of the statute (30 Stat., 84) that If you concur in my recommendation that the act be disapproved it will be necessary for the disapproval to be made to-day, this being the thirtieth day after the passage of the act. Very respectfully, E. A. Hitchcock, tfccrctarij. Department of the Interior, Washinytiin, Koveinbcr 19, 1900. United St.vtes Indian Inspector for the Indian Territory, Muscogee, Ind. T. Sir : The act of the Creek Nation approved by the principal chief October 18, 1900, was transmitted by you November 15 and by the Indian Office November 16. 1900. Said act was disapproved by the President November 17, 1900, and it has been returned this day to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for proper disposition. Said bill declares: " That there be, and is hereby, appropriated the sum of $7,000, out of the general funds of the iluskogee Nation not otherwise appropriated, in favor of Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford, attorneys at law, employed by authority of an act of the National Council of the Muskogee Nation, approved January 7, 1898: said sum, when paid, shall be full settlement of all claims against the Muskogee Nation under any contract which has been made under said act of the national council approved January 7, 1898. Said sum to be paid in accord- ance with such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior for the disbursement of Creek funds." Departmental letter to the President and a copy of the report of the Indian Office are inclosed herewith. You will advise the proper officer of said nation of the action taken. Respectfully, TiioMAS Ryan, Actiiiy t^ccrctary. Department of tpie Intekior, Office of the Superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes, lUuskogee, Okla. This is to certify that I am the officer having custody of the records pertaining to the enrollment of the members of the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, Creek, and Seminole Tribes of Indians and the disposition of the lands of said tribes, and that the above and foregoing is a true and correct copy of act of Creek Council appropriating $7,000 in favor of Stuart, Lewis, Gordon & Rutherford, attorneys at law, for services rendered. Letter dated November 1, 1900, addressed to Hon. J. George Wright United States Indian inspector, submitting a statement of legal services rendered to the Creek Nation by attorneys. „r ■ -, .. tj ■<. ^ c,^ ,. Letter dated November 7, 1900. addressed to J. George Wright. United States Indian inspector, from the principal chief of the Creek Nation. Letter d-ited November 15, 3900, addressed to the Secretary of the Interior, transmitting act of Creek Council from J. George Wright, United States Indian insiiGCtor I etter 'dated November 16. 1900. addressed to the Secretary of the Interior, transmitting act of Creek Council, from W. A. Jones, Commissioner. 248 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. Letter dated November 17, 1900, addressed to tlie President, transmitting act of Creek Council, from B. A. Hitchcock, Secretary. Letter dated November 19, 1900, addressed to United States Indian inspector, advising of tlie disapproval of the act of the Creek Council, from Thomas Ryan, Acting Secretary. Joe H. Strain, Actir}(/ Superintendent of the Five Civiliged Tribes. January 28, 1916. The Chairman. What is the number of the bill? Senator Owen. H. E. 10872. The Chairman. Did it pass the House? Senator Owen. No; it was introduced February 4, 1916. It has been introduced in the House, and I thought it proper to call it to the attention of this committee. Senator Page. Then, it will come before us in due course from the House, if they approve it ? Senator Owen. Yes; if the House acts upon it, it will come to us as an independent bill. The Chairman. I might say to you, Senators, and I think it is proper to make the disclosure, that there will be an omnibus Indian claim bill come over to us and an omnibus Indian legislation bill dur- ing this Congress. Senator Owen. We might dispose of Senator Pittman's item now. Senator Pittman. Are you ready to report on that bill, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. The claim for the rental of land ? Senator Pittman. Yes. Have you a report here, or has the depart- ment a report? Mr. Meritt. The report is not here, but the record is before the department, and a report will be made soon. Senator Pittman. But I want the regular report filed, so I can question the department on the report. I am not satisfied with the studied report without knowing the reasons. Mr. Meritt. It has not come in yet. Senator Pittman. I will wait until it comes in. EOR relief or CLARENCE HAZELBAKER. The Chairman. While awaiting the arrival of other Senators, may I inquire if any Senators present have bills they would like to have brought to the attention of the committee. If not, the chairman has half a dozen — not his own bills, but the bills of other Senators. The following is a bill introduced by Senator Borah, S. 927, Cal- endar No. 19. It was reported favorably by this committee May 9. 1914. (The bill and documents pertaining thereto are here printed in full, as follows:) [S. 9i;7, Sixty-fourth Congress, first session.] A Bill For tlie relief of Clarence HazelbaUer. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled. That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to pay, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to Me-yone-yah, a Nez Perce Indian, or the legal representative of said Indian, the sum of $2,400 upon the execution by said Indian or his legal representative of a proper quitclaim deed in relinquishment of all right and title of said Indian in and to the west half of the northeast INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 249 quarter of section fifteen, township thirty-one north, range three east, Boise meridian, under allotment numbered twelve hundred and eighty-seven, so that there shall be no conflict by reason of such allotment with the claim of one Clarence Hazelbaker to such land by virtue of homestead patent numbered one hundred and fifty-two thousand four hundred and seventy-nine, Issued to the said Hazelbaker by the General Land Office of the United States September fifteenth, nineteen hundred and ten. liBPORT ON S. 927. .Tant'.^ey 24, 1010. My. Dkak Senator : I have the honor again to refer to your letter of Janu- ary 10, 1916, transmitting a copy of a bill (S. 927) for the relief of Clarence Hazelbaker, with the request for my views on this proposed legislation. As appears in Senate lieport No. iiOS, a copy of which accompanied your letter, the department on August 11, 1913, favorably reported on S. 2630, Sixty- third Congress; second session, in which report was set forth a brief history of the case showing how, through an unfortunate mistake, Mr. I-Jazelbaljer was porniitted to enter and make final proof on 80 acres of land theretofore pat- ented to an Indian of the Xez Perce Tribe ; that this Indian is now deceased and there are no other lands available for allotment in lieu thereof to the sole heir, who is Tvi years ,ild. nearly blind, and unj^ble to work ; that the land has been duly appraised at $2,400; and the heir has expressed his willingness to quit- claim the 80-acre tract for .S2,400. It was set forth therein that neither Mr. Hazelbaker nor the In the name of our Constitution and of the declara- tion of cSigr'ess 20 years ago, that after these 20 years of exten- sioS, we ought at this time to eliminate all sectarian appropriations from this bill. 270 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILI.. I am aware that it is claimed that the money that has been paid to Catholic Indian schools was Indian money, and might be given pro rata, on petition, under a Supreme Court decision, to schools of any denomination in its due proportion. But if Catholics have any right to such funds when all other denominations refuse it as incon- sistent with American principles, I submit they should be left to get it through the courts, without any aid from acts of Congress. It is the widespread conviction of educated champions of the Indian that the money thus given by Congress has not been " Indian money," ex- cept as made so by legislation, out of order, in appropriation bills. If it really belonged to the Indians why have Senators and Con- gressmen made so many other pleas in extenuation, such as I have already noted, saying most frequently of all, that sectarian appro- priations were made because the Indian Bureau had no empty schoolhouses ready, an excuse carefuly preserved by Congress year by year by not providing such schools, which would not be used if provided. I claim that this is the most fundamental question before Con- gress. It is a question that deeply affects the general peace of the community. The Sioux Indians tell me that it is a disturbing ele- ment in the tribe — this frequent petitioning of Catholics only for shares in school appropriations. It is also a disturbing element in the Indian Bureau, and it is a disturbing element in Congress. It was stated in a House hearing that in the last election, 38 Members of Congress were defeated by the anti-Catholic vote. Now, I publicly deplore the existence of an " anti-Catholic vote," but there should be such a vote wherever there is a " Catholic vote." I believe that the only way to cut the tap root of the growing sect hatred, as perilous as the race hatred that has set Europe on fire — and we have that .also and class hatred — ^is to make a full stop everywhere and finally to sectarian appropriations. Now, I wish to meet the objections to cutting out sectarian appro- priations which I find in the record of previous hearings on this subject before this committee. OBJECTIONS TO ABOLITION OF SECTARIAN APPEOPEIATIONS C0N8IDEEED. The first objection made to discontinuing sectarian appropria- tions is one that I have noted already, namely, that the Government originated the blundering partnership of church and state in Indian education, but, as I have said, two wrongs do not make a right. A blunder 20 years old is 20 years too old already. Let it die. Another objection is that the denominational schools are "more efficient " and " cheaper." It costs $1 less a week, I hear, to have an Indian educated in a sectarian school than in the Government schools. Surely Congress should not be influenced to an un-American, vex- atious act by a saving of $59 a year on each of 711 Indians. And if the Catholics are maintaining "more efficient" schools than the Government, then this committee ought, in the name of Congress, to constrain the Indian Department to achieve greater efficiency. The excuse heard most frequently is that the Government has failed to provide adequate facilities. Now, gentlemen, I submit that no intelligent man should be expected to take that excuse seriously. I have even heard Senators give that excuse — that the Government INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 271 has not provided sufficient school facilities to take the 711 children into public schools. Of course, the Government is not going to provide them as long as there are influences at work to make this excuse necessary for keeping up sectarian appropriations. Before this appropriation goes into effect schoolhouses could be bought or built and equipped for all the Catholic Indian children that would consent to receive a public-school education. Probably none in Catholic schools would do so even if Congress ceased to support them. If the Catholics gave up their schools, the Government could buy the buildings ready made, of course. It was expected by some that this would be done long since, but they forgot that the Catholic Church never turns its children out of school anywhere for lack of funds. The Catholic Church will go right on with its schools when it must support its own, like other churches. The Catholic children will not leave the Catholic Indian schools. I believe in appropriat- ing money enough to educate them, however, to kill that excuse. It was suggested by one Senator last year that we go on with the sectarian schools we are now supporting but take on no new ones. The reply is that the principle involved is just as much violated by the continuation of an old school as by the taking on of a new one. There is no longer any need of argument about using "tribal funds." That is not the device this year. If it were, we might raise some questions as to sectarian uses of tribal funds as always an im- politic if not an illegal plan. It was a serious injury to tribal life. This year we are also free from the perennial device of " extending the treaty," to which there were objections both among the Indians and among good citizens who desire both a "square deal" and neighborly peace. The alleged treaty obligations to provide perpetual education is the ground of this year's vote for sectarian appropriations in the House. We should not be disposed to question that the Government owes an education to all Indian children, whether they have a treaty bond or not, but it is not sectarian education the Government owes to anybody. That treaty had no guaranty of sectarian education. Let Congress provide facilities for public education for these 711 In- dian children, and if anyone claims the right to more than that let them go to the courts. Give American principles the benefit of the Let me close by reading the letter I wrote to Cardinal Gibbons on this subject, and his reply, and my answer, which will cover the case more concisely and perhaps in better form than my informal talk. You will see by this letter that we maintain courteous relations. I wish that all the differences between Catholics and Protestants might be discussed without the spitfire abuse that is indulged m by some on both sides. I have for 20 years had the cooperation of the cardinal in promoting great moral bills in Congress, and when we differ we differ as gentlemen. [Beading:] International Refobm Bureau (Inc.), Washington, D. C, Feljruary H, 1916. Cardinal Gibbons: Baltimore, Md. Vfry Revbbend and Deab Sir: As you know, I am one who deplores promo- VERY ^^J^™J'^^^"(, „hicli has grown to be a national peril, like the race tion of ^fta"%"XS Europri war. Our country is menaced by race, SanrsecthatredTandall Christian forces should unite in '■ preparedness " 272 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. against these most dangerous foes. My nation-wide tours have given me opportunity to observe that a majority of Protestants have no sympathy with petty attacks on Catholics. But this majority, which desires to worlj with Catholics against the great evils of our times, will be compelled to take an anti-Catholic position in support of the most fundamental of American institu- tions, including an increased opposition to Catholics for public offices, espe- cially legislative offices, unless an end is put to such manifest unfairness as is found in the appropriation for Catholic schools among the Sioux Indians, which was first knocked out of the Indian appropriation bill in the United States House of Representatives on February 8, 1916, on a point of order, and was then replaced by a new device moved by Hon. H. L. Gandy, of South Dakota, who made the following plea : " If the gentleman had his way, 750 pupils would be deprived of the school facilities they now have, in the face of the fact that the Government is already short over 1,500 of having school facilities for the children." Please take a good look at this proposition. To save the richest church in the world from supporting a few denominational schools containing only 750 children, or to save the richest Government in the world from providing un- sectarian public schools for them, the House of Ilepresentatives votes to con- tinue sectarian appropriations to Catholic Indian schools, already given to them for 20 years since Protestant churches asked the discontinuance of such aid to their own schools and all others as against the spirit if not the letter of the constitutional provision separating church and state. Must we appeal to the sovereign people against this petty sectarian favorit- ism, whose Influence on politics and the Nation's life will otherwise be serious? So long as these sectarian appropriations are desired of Congress, with the necessity of having them reported by the Indian Committees of both Houses and approved by the President and dispensed by the Secretary of the Interior, there is a temptation to Catholics to influence the selection of the Indian Com- mittees and of a Cabinet officer, and especially of the Indian Commissioner, and the election of Congressmen, Senators, and the President ; and so long there will be occasion for anti-Catholic suspicion that a sectarian influence is at work for its own flnancial benefit in these high functions where selfish con- sideration would taint the very springs of Government. The great majority of Catholics no doubt believe the independence of all churches is an advantage, and we ask you to use your great Influence not only to have this sectarian appropriation canceled by the Senate Indian Committee, but also to have Congress submit the Sisson amendment to forbid all sectarian appropriations by State and National Governments forever. Yours, for a " better world " here and now, WiLBUE F. Crafts. Mr. Gandy had named 750 children, and so I used that figure in the letter. I have since learned from the Indian Bureau that the exact number is 711. To this letter Cardinal Gibbons made the following courteous reply [reading] : Caedinal's Residence, Baltimore, February 21, 1916. Rev. Dr. WiLBtru F. Ckapts, Washington, D. G. Mt Deae De. Crafts : I have referred your communication of the 14th in- stant to the Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions. I do not understand why the carrying out of treaty obligations should meet with opposition. Sincerely, yours, J. Caed. Gibbons. I have before shown that I do not consider the sectarian appro- priation made by the House, or at least intended, as due under any treaty obligation, but that in any case public education for the 711 Indian children involved would fulfill all obligations of the Gov- ernment. INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 273 To the cardinal's reply I replied as follows [reading] : Internationa:, Reform Bureau (Inc.), Washitifilon, D. C, Febnuuu 23, 1916. Cardinal Gibbons. Very Reverend and Dear Sir: I will not weary .\()u witli anotlier extended letter on appropriations for Catholic Indian schools, but I wish to remind you that they were wholly eliminated on points of order from the bill that would have passed the Sixty-third Congress but for expiration of time. That would have terminated the special appropriations of Congress for your schools only with an even 20 years, which, I think, should be considered very generous. To renew the approprifition in this Sixty-fourth Congress would be to put back into the body politic the most irritating sliver that ever disturbed the peace that should exist among citizens, and especially among Christians. It has long made trouble among the Indians and in the Indian Bureau and in Congress and in every congressional district. At the close of the great war there will be increasing need of the cooperation of all religious forces. Let us forbid, by constitutional amendment, all sec- tarian appropriations and so cut the very taproot of the increasing sect hatred which you and I alike deplore. Yours for a " better world " here and now, Wilbur F. Crafts. 1 thank you, gentlemen, for the courtesy of this hearing. The Chairman. I wish to read from the hearings before this com- mittee of last year, so we will all get a better view of the situation. I read first from page 685 of the hearings before the Senate committee last year a letter from Mr. Cato Sells, addressed to the chairman of Indian affairs, as follows [reading] : My Dear Senator: In answer to your Informal request with reference to what eifect the discontinuance of contracts with mission schools for the educa- tion of Indian children would have upon the education facilities for Indian children generally, the following statement is submitted : The report of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for the fiscal year 1914 shows that there are approximately 15,000 Indian children, out of a total of 77,000 eligibles, not in school, and as long as such a condition exists the problem of enrolling Indian children in school is of the greatest importance. Although most of the unenroUed Indian children are not entitled to enroll- ment In these mission schools, yet if the contracts should be discontinued it would necessarily diminish the available educational facilities. The increased requirements, if thus imposed, would have to be met by increasing the Govern- ment schools and by becoming more dependent upon the public schools, which are not always available or conveniently located for Indian pupils. Very truly, yours, Cato Sells, Commissioner. Hon. Henky F. Ashurst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs. Some of you gentlemen now present heard it, and I made a state- ment then which I think I will read at this time, as it is short It expressed my views then, and I am very sure, on mature reflection, that it expresses my views now. The chairman of the committee was the same at that time as now, namely, myself. [Keadmg : J The Chaibman As chairman of the committee, I ought to state that I have received DoSfbty several score of letters from eminent people, of all sects and received P"^^"' ^ J"*^^^' , ' ,. .. ^blic funds being taken to support sectarian «r.'^?;-?'"Tdirnot feel authorized in any way to write on behalf of the com- ; ^-ri h.t T dfd exnress mfow^^^^^ added that, so far as I knew, no nuttee, but ^ f i^l^^^P^^liY^^ored-the idea of taking the " public funds to sup- 7T!!ctLZ sZ7srlTr:iiea that those who wrote me evidently had 31362—16 18 274 ijStdiax appeopeiatiok bill. been misinformed, as it was contrary to our policy, contrary to tlie policy^ of the American Government to talie any "public funds to support sectarian schools." But I stated that where the Indians, in good faith— and not being moved by any propaganda at all — following their well-defined religious predilec- tion, petitioned Congress to spend their own Indian funds in a particular way, that was a different question, and I trust I have not misstated the matter when I said that no member of this committee would for a moment dream of taking public funds to support sectarian schools. Dr. CEArTS. We, of course, claim that whatever might have been the argument along that line in the past, the conditions this year are somewhat different, and that it is public money that will be taken to make this appropriation, if it is made in accordance with the vote of the House. The Chairman. As to that, I am not able to say. I have not ex* amined that question. Senator Curtis. How many children are there on that reservation of school age ; do you know, Mr. Merritt ? Mr. Meritt. In South Dakota we have 5,886 Indian children of school age. Senator Curtis. How many of them are attending school? Mr. Meritt. We have in Grovernment schools, 3,289; in mission- boarding schools, 711; in public schools, 652; making a total of 4,652. Senator Curtis. What arrangements have you made, if any, to provide schools for those children who have been attending the mission schools on that reservation? Mr. Meritt. We have not made any arrangements. Senator Curtis. Why not? Mr. Meritt. Because heretofore Congress authorized the pay- ment of the tuition of these children out of treaty funds. Senator Curtis. Are they being paid for out of that fund now? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Have you the money with which to build the schools for those additional 711 children? Mr. Meritt. It would probably take a quarter of a million dol- lars to build school plants sufficient to provide for 700 Indian children. Senator Curtis. How long would it take to construct such a build- ing if you were authorized by Congress to do so ? Mr. Meritt. It would require a year. Senator Curtis. What is the position of your office on the ques- tion of using treaty funds? Mr. Meritt. The position of the office is to carry out such laws as Congress may enact. Senator Curtis. What I mean, the act of Congress does not apply to treaty funds. Mr. Meritt. The Supreme Court has rendered a decision on that subject and it may be found in the Quick Bear case (210 TJ. S., p. 50). Senator Curtis. What did the court hold in that case? I have not read it. Mr. Meritt. The court holds that gratuity appropriations can not be used for sectarian purposes, but that treaty funds are available. The Chairman. The opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States is set out in extenso in our hearings last year. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 275 Mr. Meritt. This item is discussed, beginning on page 375 of the House hearings. Senator Ctjrtis. Have you requested Congress to give you an ap- propriation for the erection of buildings on the Sioux Reservation to take care of these children ? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Curtis. There is a treaty obligation, is there not, to pro- vide schools for all these children, for all the Sioux children? Mr. Meritt. The agreement of 1889, and also prior treaties and agreements, obligated the Government to provide school facilities for. the Sioux children. Senator Curtis. Yes ; but my recollection of the Sioux treaty there was a provision or a promise to provide a certain number of schools, and if those schools were not provided within the time — the fact that the treaty had expired I do not think would relieve the Government from providing those schools. That is, if the Government agreed to build a school for so many hundred children and did not do it, of course the obligation is still on the Government to build those schools. Mr. Meritt. The act of 1899 is found in 25 Statutes at Large, page 894. The Chairman. That is a compilation of the treaties that may not run to the same page, Senator. Senator Curtis. This is not a treaty ; it is an agreement. Dr. Crafts. It says " children that can be induced to attend shall have a school." While the Senator is finding that, may I read from the last hearings? The Chairman. Yes. Dr. Crafts. I read from this committee's hearings in Sixty-third Congress on H. E. 20150, part 7, page 604 [reading] : For every 30 children between said ages (6 and 10) who can be induced or compelled to attend school a house shall be provided and a teacher competent to teach the elementary branches of an English education shall be furnished, who will reside among said Indians and faithfully discharge his or her duties as a teacher. The provisions of this article to continue for not less than 20 years. The treaty finally expired 1909. There is nothing in that treaty that seems to indicate an obliga- tion continuing beyond 1909, but if it does continue the obligation would manifestly be fulfilled by giving the Indians nonsectarian education. Furthermore, the treaty of 1889, in renewing provision above quoted, says [reading] : Sec 17 That it is hereby enacted that the seventh article of the said treaty of April 29 1869 securing to said Indians the benefits of education, subject to such modifications as Congress shall deem most efCective to secure to said In- dians equivalent benefits of such education, shall continue in force 20 years from and after the time this act shall take effect. Surely even under this treaty, if its provision for education is, as claimed, a continuing obligation not ended m 1909 Congress has abundant authority under the "modification" authorized to change the sectarian appropriation method heretofore followed— even though under Supreme Court ruling it might be agreed to be permissiv^in view of the vexatious influence of sectarian appropria- tions upon the Indian community in school and out. Again I say that if there be a doubt let Congress give American principles the 276 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. benefit of the doubt, and provide nonsectarian education, and if any believe themselves entitled to more let them try for it in the courts. Senator Curtis. This is the section of the treaty I desired to call attention to [reading] : Sec. 20. That the Secretary of the Interior shall cause to be erected not less than 30 schoolhouses, and more if found necessary, on the different reserva- tions at such points as he shall think for the best interest of the Indians, but at such distance only as will enable as many as possible attending the schools to return home nights as white children do attending district schools, and pro- viding that any white children residing in the neighborhood are entitled to attend said schools upon such terms as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. That is the section of the agreement that I referred to, and asked if the commissioner did not understand it so, whether or not they had been complied with, those 30 schoolhouses built for those Indians. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. They have been built, have they ? Mr. Meritt. We have probably 30 day schools on the Pine Ridge Reservation at this time. Senator Curtis. It says " more, if necessary." But you have not enough day schools to take care of these children, have you ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Dr. Crafts. May I submit one point more? The Chairman. Certainly. Dr. Craets. If there is any legal obligation on the Government to do anything under any treaty, the courts are the agency through which the money should be secured. It is therefore safe for Con- gress to make its appropriations specifically for nonsectarian educa- tion, and then if Catholics contend that providing public-school facilities for all Sioux Indian children whose parents desire it for them is not a fulfillment of the treaty, let the question be settled in the courts rather than have any doubt in the public mind that Congress is using public money for sectarian purposes. The Chairman. Let me put this question to you: Suppose we should find, as clear as daylight, that it was a part and parcel of a treaty we had with the Indians — suppose it were ascertained we had a treaty to the effect that we should give them support the way this is done, would you favor the continuance or discontinue it? Dr. Crafts. Certainly I would favor keeping a contract. I do not admit there is such a contract. The Chairman. I think the general policy of Congress has been not to appropriate money for the support of sectarian schools, yet suppose there is a treaty obligation on the part of Congress to appropriate money in compliance with a treaty for that purpose, would Congress be justified in so doing? Dr. Crafts. It is only by an unusual construction of the treaty that the money was turned that way. It was decided by the courte that it could be divided up according to denominational preferences of the people, and up to the time the treaty remained in force, 1909, of course we had to bow to the decision of the Supreme Court. But it seems to me that Congress should now provide enough money for Sioux education and say nothing about treaties. And if there are any legal rights to sectarian appropriations, they can be vin- dicated in the courts. The chairman supposed a Presbyterian father INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 277 might want to have a part of an appropriation for his child. But that is not a supposable case. We all have the same rights now under the treaty, but there has not been a single Protestant school that has taken a dollar of sectarian Indian appropriations for 20 years. Again I say let Congress make it§ appropriation for public education, and then if there be any rights reserved, let them be proved in the courts rather than increase this deepening and broading feeling that Congress is using public money which is paid by all denomina- tions for the exclusive benefit of one. This year there is no cloak of " tribal funds" or treaty extension, but a stark-naked appropri- ation of public money for Catholic schools. Senator Curtis. You hardly want to say that. These Indians have not been paid their funds derived out of this treaty. It has not been distributed to them. They still have money in the Treasury and have money due them. Dr. Crafts. There is no reference to " tribal funds " or treaty ex- tension in this year's House act. but simply an appeal to the fact that the Government, under an expired treaty, was bound to furnish Indian edvication. 'It is claimed, but not admitted to be a perpetual obligation. But, in any case, the word " education " means, in Gov- ernment parlance, public education. The Chairmax. I have found that Quick Bear decision, page 61, last year's hearings. I want again to read just what I said there and put in the record the Quick Bear case. [Reading:] The Chairman. There has been so much misunderstanding as to the effect and scope of the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in the so-called Quick Bear case that I wish to draw your especial attention to that decision. I will not read it to you in extenso, but it is very evident to my mind that some persons — not members of this committee — either have not read or have misread the Quick Bear case. I shall, therefore, ask unanimous consent that I include in the record at this point the decision in the QulcK Bear case. I will not put into the record the briefs of the attorneys, but only the decision, which is a unanimous decision handed down by Chief .Justice Puller, who spoke for the court. I think all of our members are lawyers except three ; those who are not lawyers are very successful business men, smd if we will all read this decision when this item comes before us nnall.v for our determination, we shall have much more accurate Information than we propbably have been proceeding under heretofore. I ask that the decision in the Quick Bear case go into the record at this point. October term 1907 Reuben Quick Bear v. Leupp, Commissioner of Indian (210 U. S., p. 77 et seq.) Mr. Chief .Tustice Fuller, after making the foregoing statement delivered the °^We°concu*fnThe'decree of the Court of Appeals of the District and the reason- ing bv which its conclusion is supported, as set forth m the opinion of ^^ right, J., snpflkins for the court (Washington Law Rep., v. 35, p. 7bb.) ^?Levaliditv of the contract foi'$27,000 is attacked on the ground that all con- tracts for sectarian education among the Indians are forbidden by certain pro- visos contained in the Indian appropriation acts of 1895 1896, 189 (, 1898, and Tsqo But \f these provisos relate only to the appropriations made by the Gov- ernment ou of the puW c moneys of the United States raised by taxat on from ne™ of all creeds and faiths, or none at all, and appropriated gratuitously for ?hl purpose of education among the Indians and not to "tribal funds," L 1, v-^i. „S t^ fhP Indians themselves, then the contract must be sustained. Th^liSle between t'ecilss'^f appropriations and the other has long been Ihe aitterenee Detwee nnnropriation acts. The gratuitous appropriation of recognized in the ^^^l^^^^^J^f^^li^^ education has always been made under ththeaXg'' support ^IZols," while the appropriation of the " treaty fund " 278 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. has always been under the heading " Fulfilling treaty stipulations and support of Indian tribes," and that from the " trust fund " is not in the Indian appro- priation acts at all. One class of appropriations relates to public moneys dbt longing to the Government; the other, to moneys which belong to the Indians and which is administered for them by the Government. j, t /i- From the history of appropriations of public moneys for education of Indians, set forth in the brief of counsel for appellees and again at length in the answer, it appears that before 1895 the Government for a number of years had made contracts for sectarian schools for the education of the Indians, and the money due on these contracts was paid, in the discretion of the Commissioner of Indian Afieairs, from the " tribal funds " and from the gratuitous public appropriations. But in 1894 opposition developed against appropriating public moneys for secta- rian education. Accordingly, in the Indian appropriation act of 1894, under the heading of " Support of schools," the Secretary of the Interior was directed to investigate the propriety of discontinuing contract schools and to make such recommendations as he might deem proper. The Secretary suggested a gradual reduction in the public appropriations on account of the money which had been invested in these schools, with the approbation of the Government. He said: " It would be scarcely just to abolish them entirely — to abandon instantly a policy so long recognized," and suggested that' they should be decreased at the rate of not less than 20 per cent a year. Thus in a few years they would cease to exist, and during this time the bureau would be gradually prepared to do without them, while they might gather strength to continue without Government aid. Accordingly Congress introduced in the appropriation act of 1895 a limita- tion on the use of public moneys in sectarian schools. This act appropriated imder the heading " Support of schools " " for the support of Indian and industrial schools and for other purposes * * * $1,164,350. * * * pro- vided, that the Secretary of the Interior shall make contracts, but only with the present contract schools for the education of Indian pupils during the fiscal year ending June 30, 1896, to an extent not exceeding 80 per cent of the amount so used in the fiscal year 1895, and the Government shall as early as prac- ticable make provision for the education of the Indians in Government schools." This limitation of 80 per cent was to be expended for contract schools, which were those that up to that time had educated Indians through the use of public moneys, and had not relation and did not refer to " tribal funds." In the appropriation act of 1896, under the same heading, " Support of schools," the appropriation of public money of $1,235,000 was limited by a proviso that contracts should only be made at places where nonsectarian schools can not be provided for Indian children to an amount not exceeding 50 per cent of the amount so used in the fiscal year 1895, and immediately following the appropriation of public money appears the expression, " and it is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government to hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian school." This limitation, if it can be given efEect as such, manifestly applies to the use of public moneys gratuitously appropriated for such purpose, and not to moneys belonging to the Indians themselves. In the appropriation act of 1897 the same declaration of policy occurs as a limitation on the appropriation of public moneys for the support of schools, and the amount applicable to contract schools was limited to 40 per cent of the amount used in 1895. In the act of 1898 the amount applicable to contract schools was limited to 30 per cent, and in the act of 1899 the amount so applicable was limited to 15 per cent, these words being added : " This being the final appropriation for sectarian schools." The declaration of the settled policy of the Government is found only in the acts of 1896 and 1897, and was entirely carried out by the reductions provided for. Since 1899 public moneys are appropriated under the heading " Support of schools : For the support of Indian and industrial schools, and for other educa- tional purposes," without saying anything about sectarian schools. This was not needed, as the effect of the legislation was to make subsequent appropriations for education mean that sectarian schools were excluded in sharing in them, unless otherwise provided. As has been shown, in 1868 the United States made a treaty with the Sioux Indians, under which the Indians made a large cession of land and other rights. In consideration of this the United States agreed that for every 30 children a house should be provided and a teacher competent to teach the elementary branches of our English education should be furnished for 20 years. In 1877, in consideration of further land cessions, the United States agreed to furnish all INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 279 necessary aid to assist tlie Indians in tlie worli of civilization and furnisli tliem schools and instruction in mechanical and agricultural arts, as provided by the treaty of 1868. In 18S9 Congress extended the obligation of the treaty for 20 years, subject to such modifications as Congress should deem most effective, to secure the Indians equivalent benefits of such education. Thereafter, in every annual Indian appropriation act there was an appropriation to carry out the terms of this treaty, under the heading, " Fulfilling treaty stipulations with and support of Indian tribes." These appropriations rested on different grounds from the gratuitous appro- priations of public moneys under the heading " Support of schools." The two subjects were separately treated in each act, and, naturally, as they are essen- tially different in character. One is the gratuitous appropriation of public moneys for the purpose of Indian education, but the " treaty fund " Is not public money in this sense. It is the Indian's money, or, at least, is dealt with by the Government as if it belonged to them, as morally it does. It differs from the " trust fund " in this : The " trust fund " has been set aside for the Indians and the income expended for their benefit, which expenditure required no annual appropriation. The whole amount due the Indians for certain land cessions was appropriated in one lump sum by the act of 1889 (25 Stat., 888, chap; 405) . This " trust fund " is held for the Indians and not distributed per capita, being held as property in common. The money is distributed in accordance with the dis- cretion of the Secretary of the Interior, but really belongs to the Indians. The President declared it to be the moral right of the Indians to have this " trust fund " applied to the education of the Indians in the schools of their choice, and the same view was entertained by the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia and the Court of Appeals of the District. But the " treaty fund " has exactly the same characteristics. They are moneys belonging really to the Indians. They are the price of land ceded by the Indians to the Government. The only difference is that in the " treaty fund " the debt to the Indians created and secured by the treaty is paid by annual appropriations. They are not gratuitous appropriations of public moneys, but the payment, as we repeat, of a treaty debt in installments. We perceive no justification for applying the pro- viso or declaration of policy to the payment of treaty obligations, the two things being distinct and different in nature and having no relation to each other, except that both are technically appropriations. Some reference is made to the Constitution, in respect to this contract with the Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions. It is not contended that it is unconstitu- tional and it could not be. (Roberts v. Bradfield, 12 App. D. C, 475; Bradfield V Roberts J 75 U. S., 291.) But it is contended that the spirit of the Constitu- tion requires that the declaration of policy that the Government " shall make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian schools " should be treated as applicable, on the ground that the actions of the United States were to always be undenominational, and that, therefore, the Government can never act in a sectarian capacity, either in the use of its own fund or in that of the funds of others in respect of which it is a trustee ; hence, that even the Sioux trust fund can not be applied for education in Catholic schools, even though the owners of the fund so desire it. But we can not concede the proposition that Indians can not be allowed to use their own money to educate their children m the schools of their own choice because the Government is necessarily unde- nominational, as it can not make any law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The Court of Appeals well said : "The ' treaty ' and ' trust ' moneys are the only moneys that the Indians can lay claim to as a matter of right; the only sums on which they are entitled to rely as theirs for education ; and while these moneys are not delivered to them fn hand yet the money must not only be provided, but be expended for their benefit and in part for their education; it seems inconceivable that Congress should have intended to prohibit them from receiving religious education at their own rnS- if thPv so desired it ; such an intent would be one ' to prohibit the free elercisf of relTgion 'amongst' the Indians, and such would be the effect of the construction for which the complainants contend. , ^, ^ ^ . ^t. The cestuis que trust can not be deprived of their rights by the trustee in the exercise of the power implied. Decree affirmed. Senator Ctjetis. I think, in justice to myself, I ought to inake a statement The sectarian school was very severely attacked m the early Congresses~in 1893, 1895, and 1896-and m committees and on 280 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. the floor of the House the feeling became very bitter, so I proposed this amendment for the purpose of ending the use of public appro- priations for sectarian schools in five years — ^to decrease the number 20 per cent a year. Congress also provided that the Government of the United States should buy the school buildings from these various institutions that would sell. Of course the amount required to pur- chase those buildings was larger than we expected at the time. Appro- priations were made from year to year, and I think that after the fifth year, or perhaps it went on a ye'ar or two more, public funds were not used. As I recollect it, on this Sioux Reservation we extended the old treaty provision from year to year. Senator Page. Is it not upon the suggestion that we are continuing • an old treaty that we adopt the legislation as we do from year to year now? * Senator Curtis. I so understand it. Now, I do not know what influenced other members of the committee. Personally I was op- posed, as shown by the amendment I offered and the vote I made, to the use of the money appropriated — public money, I mean, money that the Government gave as a gratuity for educational purposes to these tribes for sectarian schools — ^but as the Government had not provided schools enough to take care of these children, Mr. Sherman, of New York, chairman of this committee and chairman of the Subcommittee on Appropriations, and I, as the second member of the Committee on Appropriations, favored the continuance of this treaty provision in order to provide schools for the Sioux Indians that had not been provided for by the General Government and were not provided for out of the appropriations made for the support of Government schools. I know the doctor has referred to the matter as hardly reasonable that a man should favor propositions of this kind, but my position is this, gentlemen : I think the only way we can entirely settle the Indian question is by educating the Indian. The sooner we get them out of their reservation schools and mingling with the white children and in school with other people the better it is going to be for the Indian ; and while I am opposed to sectarian schools and am opposed to the use of any public moneys, yet I say I would vote to send the children to any school, whether it be sectarian or not, rather than to no school; and if the Government does not provide as it should schools for these children, so far as I am personally concerned — ^I do not know how it will look to others — ^these children should be sent to school whether it be a Methodist school, or Presbyterian school, or any other school. • Senator Page. Just one question there. Do you not think that public sentiment with regard to the sending of these children to sectarian schools has become aroused to such an extent that we had better build a new school, whatever the expense may be? Senator Curtis. I say so; and that is why I asked the assistant commissioner whether or not any provision had been made and what it would cost to build these schools. I think we should build these schools so that the Government may provide schools for all the Indian children, unless the parents themselves want to send them to other schools. Either build them or arrange to send them to public schools. I think the Government should do that, and thatis why I have voted with the Senator from Vermont on all his various amendments to increase these appropriations for school purposes. As I said a few INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. 281 minutes ago, I think when we solve the Indian question we will solve it by education. We will not solve it by noneducation. •/i,^*i° say very frankly that if the assistant commissioner here, OJ" V^ the department, will submit a proposition for an appropriation to build enough schools on that reservation to take care of these Indian children, I will vote for it, but I want to add this: If the provision is not made, then I should not favor striking out that pro- vision, because I think those seven hundred and odd children should have this school for this year. That is just the way I feel about it. I am honest, and conscientiously so, in that judgment, and I think it is only fair to Dr. Crafts and others that I should state just how I feel about it. If the commissioner can provide and will submit an amendment here I do not care if it takes $750,000, or how much it takes, I will vote to help provide for this school, but I think we should have these children in school. Senator Page. I am fully in accord with your views, Senator Cur- tis, but I think the time has come now when the department should relieve itself of the little suggestion that they are not friendly to nonsectarian schools, by suggesting at some point in this bill some proviso that schools be erected to take care of this particular class of scholars, if for no other purpose than that the friction, the un- settled ideas among Christian denominations that money is being wrongly used may be eliminated. Dr. Crafts. These suggestions would be fully carried out if the appropriation in the bill was raised from $200,000 to $450,000, adding the quarter million Mr. Meritt has said would provide Government schools for Indians now supported in sectarian schools. Permit me to call attention also to the fact that the Supreme Court Quick Bear case is on the " validity " of the Indian Bureau contract for sectarian education. It did not compel but only permitted such contract, and it was rendered in 1907, before the treaty expired. I should like to see a new case coming from the other side. Let Congress omit all sectarian appropriations by striking out all reference to the treaty, and then let it be tested in the Supreme Court whether Congress is compelled to support Catholic Indian schools forever under the treaty that promised general " education " until 1909. Senator Cuktis. The law as it now stands prevents any gratuity appropriation being used for sectarian purposes. The Chairman. I made that statement the other day. Doctor. That is now the fixed, aiErmative law, that is the law of 1897. Dr. Crafts. All that is necessary is to strike out all after " $200,000 " and raise the amount by adding a quarter of a million more, and the whole matter is then taken care of with a year to do it. Senator Curtis. I beg your pardon ; this api^ropriation takes effect the 1st day of July, and you have not got a year. You have got only four months. Mr. Meritt. The act of June 10, 1896 [29 Stat. L., 345], reads, in part, as follows [reading] : It is hereby declared to be the settled policy of the Government to hereafter make no appropriation whatever for education in any sectarian school. Dr. Crafts. If you add this money I am sure the schools can be bought hired, or built soon enough to accommodate all who would 282 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. be ready to come in by the time this appropriation goes into effect. Of course, there are few, if any, children who will leave their Cath- olic schools whatever happens. If many of them do leave, the Government can buy the Catholic school buildings without delaying to build. The Indian Bureau, by expeditious work, if it had $250,000, could surely take care of all the Indian Catholic children among the Sioux tribe who would make the transfer. It would be very few, if any. The Chairman. I thinli Senator Curtis has fairly stated the matter. Dr. Crafts. I agree with both of you as to the first of your alter- native propositions — that Congress should either provide Govern- ment schools for all of these 711 Indian children in question or else educate them in Catholic schools as heretofore — but I do not admit that there is any such alternative inasmuch as this committee can and should induce Congress to provide them with Government schools or at least proffer them at once. (Thereupon, at 12 o'clock m., the committee adjourned, to meet at 10.30 o'clock a. m. Monday, February 28, 1916.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. MONDAY, FEBRTIABY 28, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. G. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Pittman, Lane, Owen, Johnson, Clapp, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. distribution of SEMINOLE FUNDS. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I desire to call the attention of the committee to the Seminole case. They have $1,400,000, and $500,000 was reserved for school purposes subject to further action. There is $900,000 remaining which they ought to have. There are about 3,000 of them, are there not, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. I would like to ask that the fund be distributed to them. The Chairman. What is the view of your department, Mr. Meritt, on that proposition? Mr. Meritt. We are in favor of the per capita payment for the Seminoles. The Chairman. Will you prepare an amendment upon that sub- ject for insertion in the bill to-morrow ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. DIVERSION DAM ON THE GILA RIVER, ARIZ. The Chairman. I have just received the report of the department with respect to the Arizona item. The committee will remember that the item I introduced did not meet with the favor of the depart- ment at all ; in fact, some of the members of the committee objected to it. I now have a report signed by the Secretary of the Interior in which he asks that the amendment which I introduced be disre- garded or not agreed to, and the following be agreed to. I will state that this letter is dated February 24, 1916, and I will read the concluding paragraph. He says [reading] : I recommend that the draft of legislation herewith proposed as a substitute amendment, receive the favorable consideration of your committee and Con- 283 284 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. He at first states his objection to my amendment. Senator Owen. What is the substance of his proposal ? The Chairman. I will ]«ad it, it is very short [reading] : For beginning the construction by the Indian Service of a dam and the necessary canals and other irrigation worlts, and the purchase of rights of way and other property rights, and doing all things necessary for beginning the carrying out of a project to irrigate Indian lands on the Gila River Indian Res- ervation and private and public lands In Penal County, Ariz., said dam to be built at a site above Florence, Ariz., .$17-5,000, to be immediately available and to remain available until expended: Provided, That the vsrater diverted from the Gila River by said dam shall be distributed by the Secretary of the Interior to the Indian lands of said reservation and to the private and public lands in said county according to the respective rights and priorities of such land to the beneficial use of said water, as may be determined by agreement of the ovpners ^ thereof vcith the Secretary of the Interior, or by a court of competent jurisdic- ' tion : Provided further, That the construction charge for the actual cost of said dam and other works and rights shall be divided equitably by the Secretary of the Interior between the Indian lands and the private and public lands in said project, and said cost as fixed for said Indian lands shall be reimbursable as provided in section 2 of the act of August 24, 1912 (37 Stat. L., p. 522) ; but the construction charge as fixed for the private and public lands in said county shall be paid by the owner or entryman in accordance with the terms of an act extending the period of payment under reclamation projects, approved August 13, 1914 (38 Stat. L., p. 686) : And provided further. That said project shall only be undertaken if the Secretary of the Interior shall be able to make or provide for what he shall deem to be satisfactory adjustments of the rights to the water to be diverted by said dam or carried in said canals, and satisfactory arrangements for the inclusion of lands within said projects and the purchase of property rights which shall deem necessary to be acquired, and shall deter- mine and declare said project to be feasible. That is prepared by the Secretary of the Interior. Senator Owen. I move its adoption. (The item was agreed to.) Senator Curtis. I reserve the right to object, as I want to look that matter up. Mr. Meritt. This item has been very carefully drawn by the department so as to fully protect the interests of the Pima Indians, and if adopted as drafted by the department we are heartily in favor of it. The Chairman. I simply want to say very briefly, in reply to Senator Curtis, that it does not wholly meet the view I had, but I think it is the best that can be done. I have no pride of opinion with respect to it. Just so long as these Indians get the water there I do not care about the particular means as long as they are legal. Are you ready on the Oklahoma item with respect to the per capita payment. PER CAPITA PAYMENTS, CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW NATION. Senator Owen. The Choctaw and Chickasaw per capita payment was left over until to-day. Senator Clapp. Is that the distribution? The Chairman. That is the distribution. Senator Owen. The committee passed it last year, and the Sen9.te passed it also, but the Indian appropriation bill failed, as you re- member. Senator Citrtis. Mr. Ballinger is present and asks that he be heard, for a few moments. INDIAN APtEOPEIATION BILL. 285 STATEMENT OF WEBSTER BALLINGER, ESQ., ATTORNEY AT LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C. Mr. Baulingeb. Senators, I desire to make a request of the com- mittee. In part 4 of the hearings on tliis item before the House committee there was inserted an alleged report of a " Detailed spe- cial investigator" that cast very serious reflections upon my office force in Muskogee, and also indirectly upon me, in connection with the preparation of certain citizenship cases and the submission of them to the department. I have no doubt that that matter will be referred to in the discussion of this question on the floor of the Stenate, and I want to ask the committee to permit me to briefly submit the matter in order that both sides may appear in the record. The Chairman. Mr. Ballinger, this is my personal and private view — I am not speaking for the committee — but the committee last week by a unanimous vote agreed finally and affirmatively to dispose of this item. I think you are entitled to say something upon the subject. Will you not submit a written brief of what you desire to say? It should be respectful, and I have no doubt it will be re- spectful. You should make it in a respectful, calm, and moderate manner in reply. Will that be satisfactory ? Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Mr. Ballinger, is this simply a reply to some reflec- tion cast upon you or some personal allusions to yourself, or is it something that goes to the meat of this case ? Mr. Ballinger. It is partially with respect to myself and par- tially as going to the meat of the case, because, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, it is alleged in this report that all of the cases that I have submitted to the department are supported by perjured affidavits that were made by professional witnesses. The Chairman. The suggestions inveighing against you were made before the House committee, were they not ? Mr. Ballinger. That is true. The Chairman. And, of course, you are seeking to come before the Senate committee to reply to what was said before a House com- mittee. That is a little unusual. I think the proper place or the proper tribunal before Which you should appear would be the House committee; but if you wish to submit a brief this committee will receive it. Senator Owen. Can we not agree to allow Mr. Ballinger a certain number of minutes? How many minutes will it take you to present the matter, Mr. Ballinger ? Mr. Ballinger. I can say all I have to say in 20 minutes. Senator Owen. Suppose we allow Mr. Ballinger 20 minutes and then allow the counsel of the Choctaw Nation the same time in which to reply. The Chairman. If there is no objection, that will be done. Senator Gronna. On what page of the hearing is this report? Mr. Ballinger. It is in part 4. The Chairman. Since each side is going to have 20 minutes, any interruptions will be taken out of your time. Senator Gronna. I interrupted because I had something to do with this matter myself, and I desire to know what it is that is to be suggested at this time. 286 INDIAN APPKOPKIAIION BILL. Mr. Ballingee. I have felt certain that this matter would come up during the course ol the discussions on the tioor of the Senate, and, none ot you being tamiliar with it, I thought it only lair to those benators who had thought there were some claimants to property rignts m these tribes who ought to be provided for that the true tacts be Drought to your attention. In oraer that 1 may get this into the record complete, 1 want to asii the committee tnis one question, May 1 make a brief statement to the committee and tile in addition a more complete statement '< 'ine (..H AIRMAN, is there any objection to Mr. Bailinger's request that he make a more elaborate statement ia a printed or written brief 'S toenator Owen. How many pages will it take? ., Mr. J3ALLINGEE. About lU or Iz typewritten pages. benator Uwen. If it is 10 or 12 pages, 1 have no objection to it. The CHAntJviAN. You have that permission, Mr. Ballinger. benator itage. I wish you would devote yourself solely to the meat of this case, and, so tar as allusions to yourself are concerned, let that go into your brief. Give us the facts that will influence our mmds in passing judgment or voting upon the item in this bill at this time. Mr. Ballingee. I shall endeavor to do that. Prior to August 1, lyii, the alfairs of the Five Civilized Tribes were administered by a (Jommissicn of the live Civilized Tribes and a superintendent of the union agency under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. The then commissioner was J. (i. Wright and the tnen superintendent ot the union agency was Dana J. Kelsey, two ot the most competent men who have ever been connected with the Indian bervice. Because of the enrollment controversy these officers became very important ; as it is in these offices that ttie main records are kept and tne initial reports are prepared with reference to questions ot fact. Jtiepeated eltorts had been made by representa- tives of the enrolled members of the trioes to secure the appointment to these positions of men of their own selection who could further their interests m the enrollment controversy. I'hese efforts had failed, in order to accomplish the desired result the same influences that had attempted to remove Wright and Kelsey, and upon the pretext of economy in the administration of the attairs of tne Five i ribes, succeeded m securing the inclusion of the following provisions in the Indian appropriation bill approved August 1, 191i : That, effective September 1, 1914, the offices of the Commissioner of the Five Civilized Tribes and superintendent of the union agency, in Oklahoma, be, and the same are, hereby, abolislied and in lieu thereof there shall be appointed by the President, by and witli tlie advice and consent of the Senate, a superintendent for tlie Five Civilized Tribes, with his office located in the State of Oklahoma, at a salary of $5,000 per annum, and said superintendent shall exercise the authority and perform the duties now exercised by die Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes and the superintendent of. the union agency, with authority to reorganize the department and to eliminate all unnec- essary clerks, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. Members of this committee will recall the earnest and vigorous opposition of Senator Townsend, then a member of this committee, and other Sfenators now members of this committee, to that provision. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 287 Senator Townsend exposed the objects and purposes of this provi- sion, and with prophetic accuracy portrayed the condition that would inevitably result. The opposition to the provision failed, and the offices having charge of the Five Civilized Tribes at Muskogee were turned over to Gabariel E. Parker, a one-eighth enrolled Choctaw Indian, Choctaw Eoll No. 4608, who was appointed as the successor of Wright and Kelsey. The alleged report appearing in part 4 of the House hearings, which contains the scurrilous indirect assaults upon me, purports to have been prepared by "William L. Bowie (detailed). Special In- vestigator." The word " detailed " appearing immediately after his name and before the words " Special Investigator " clearly indicates that he was not even a regular inspector but that he was assigned or appointed specially for this work. You will observe that in the alleged depositions accompanying the report that this statement ap- pears : Alec Nail, being duly sworn by William L. Bowie, deputy clerk for the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, on oath testifies as follows : " Examination by William L. Bowie on behalf of the superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes " (p. 85). Being somewhat familiar with the laws of the United States and realizing that a man could not hold the office of " Special Investi- gator " in the Indian Service and " Deputy Clerk " of a United States court at the same time, I made verbal inquiry of the Department of Justice to ascertain if a man by the name of William L. Bowie was in fact, or had been at any time within the last year, a deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma. I was advised by the Accounts Division, in which division all ac- counts of clerks and deputy clerks are examined and passed upon, that there was no record in the department of such a man as William L. Bowie ever having held the office of deputy clerk. I requested the Department of Justice to make further inquiry to ascertain whether such an appointment could have been made, without return thereof being made to the department. I was asked to put my request in writing, which I did in the following letter addressed to the Attor- ney General [reading] : Division of Accounts, February 10, 1918. The honorable Attokney Generai,, Department of Justice, Washington, D. G. My Dear Siks Will you kindly advise me at your earliest convenience whether William L Bowie is now or has at any time been a deputy clerk of the United States court eastern district of Oklahoma. If he has held such an office at any time please' advise me of the date of his appointment, the exact time he re- mained in the service, and when he ceased to be a deputy clerk and the cause thereof, whether by resignation or dismissal. , . ■ ^ Certain acknowledgments and papers containing evidence of the administra- tion of oaths bv William L. Bowie, "deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma," dated in July, 1915, have come to my notice in certain cases I know of no such a man as deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma. Before taking any action in the matter I desire to obtain definite information. very truly, yours, ^^^^^ Baxlingeb. 288 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. To this letter I received the following reply : Depabtment of Justice, Washington, D. C, February 19, 1916. Mr. Webster Ballingee, U13 G Street NW., Washington, D. C. Sib : Replying to your letter of the 10th instant, in which you make inquiry 7-egarding William L.. Bowie, you are Informed that the clerk of the United States district court at Muskogee, Okla., advises that Mr. Bowie was appointed deputy clerk of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma on May 4, 1915, and executed the oath of office on the same day. He further states that this appointment is one of several that have been made for the benefit of the Indian agency, or superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes, in order that they may take testimony, or rather administer oaths, to Indians by the field clerks of the Interior Department. Respectfully, Samuel J. Geaham, Assistant Attorney General (For the Attorney General). It therefore affirmatively appears that William L. Bowie was appointed a deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma " for the benefit of the Indian agency or superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes, in order that he might take testimony, or rather administer oaths, to Indians by the field clerks of the Interior Department," and that no salary or emoluments attached to his position as deputy clerk. Such an ap- pointment was not only highly improper and scandalous, but was in violation of positiA'e law, and no oath administered by William L. Bowie was of any more solemnity, force, or effect that an oath administered by a private citizen. Section 4 of the Judicial Code of the United States, enacted March 3, 1911, and which became operative January 1, 1912, au- thorized the appointment of deputy clerks for the proper conduct of the court's business in these words [reading] : Except as otherwise specially provided by law, the clerk of the district court for each district may, with the approval of the district judge thereof, appoint such number of deputy clerks as may be deemed necessary by such judge, who may be designated to reside and maintain offices at such places of holding court as the judge may determine. * * * in case of the death of the clerk, his deputy or deputies shall, unless removed, continue in office and per- form the duties of the clerk, in his name, until a clerk is appointed and quali- fied ; and for the default or misfeasances in office of any such deputy, whether in the lifetime of the clerk or after his death, the clerk and his estate and the sureties on his official bond shall be liable ; and his executor or administrator shall have such remedy for any such default or misfeasances committed after his death as the clerk would be entitled to if the same had occurred in his lifetime. Thus under the plain language of tlie statute the court in Okla- homa had no power to appoint a deputy clerk except to perform the duties of the court, and when appointed was to be assigned to a particular office of the court at which place he was to reside. I am advised that there was no provision as to residence inserted in the appointment issued to William L. Bowie. He was not appointed to perform any of the duties of the court or to perform any duties in connection with the clerk's office, but according to the letter of the Attorney General he was appointed for the specific purpose, viz [reading] : In order that he might take testimony or, rather, administer oaths to Indians by the field clerks of the Interior Department. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 289 But this is not the only law governing this appointment. Section 3679, United States Revised Statutes, as amended by the act of Feb- ruary 27, 1906 [34 Stat. L., 49], provides: * * * Nor shall any department or any officer of the Government accept voluntary service for the Government or employ personal service in excess of that authorized by law except in cases of sudden emergency involving the loss of human life or the destruction of property. * * * Any person violating any provision of this section shall be summarily removed from office, and may also be punished by a fine of not less than ,$100 or imprisonment for not less than one month. The appointment of William L. Bowie as a deputy clerk without pay or compensation and at the instance of P. J. Hurley, national attorney for the Choctaw Tribe, and Superintendent Parker for the sole purpose of administering oaths "to Indians by the field clerks of the Interior Department," of ^Yhich he is one, constituted the acceptance of voluntary services in excess of those authorized by law, and the judge who authorized the appoint- ment and the clerk of the court who made the appointment of Wil- liam L. Bowie should be summarily removed from office and pun- ished by fine and imprisonment, or both, in accordance with the pro- visions of the statutes. It is difficult to imagine a more vicious scheme than this. Thinlc of a man being appointed a deputy clerk of a United States court in violation of law, the appointment being not for any purpose in connection with the office of the clerk of the court, but for the sole purpose of enabling him as a " detailed special investigator " for the superintendent to the Five Civilized Tribes to act in the court's name to summon in persons before him under the guise of full power to issue the summons; to then in the name of the court administer an oath ; to then as an officer of the court preside at the hearing, and during the said hearing as a " detailed special investigator " of the office of the superintendent to the Five Civilized Tribes conduct an investigation for the purpose of securing evidence of violations of the laws of the United States in order that criminal charge might be preferred by indictment, and the person thus indicted to be tried in the United States court with which the man presiding and ad- ministering the oath at the hearing was connected as a deputy clerk. Under the law the juries are drawn and selected by the clerk's office, and the deputy clerk has full access to all records, and in the absence of the clerk of the court acts as the clerk of the court. Thus the in- vestigator who prefers the charges, selects the jury before whom the person accused by him is to be tried, is present in the dual capacity of tii-osecutor and of deputy clerk of the court at the trial, and has countless opportunities to improperly influence the jury and thus make good his charges in a United States tribunal, called a court of justice, by railroading the accused into the penitentiary. Can you imagine a more diabolical, vicious violation of the law, a scheme bet- ter calculated to subvert the ends of justice and to effectuate the conviction of innocent men of crime than this In the first paragraph of the alleged report ot William L. Bowie [hearings before House committee, pt. 4, p. 55] it is stated [reading] : Deae Me Paekeb • In August last, in accordance with instructions from you to assist the Choctaw national attorney, Hon. P. J. Hurley, etc. 31362—16 19 290 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. Who is this man Hon. P. J. Hurley? By reference to "Hear- ings before the Committee on Indians Affairs, House of Eepre- sentatives, Sixty-first Congress, second session, on H. R. 19279, H. K. 19552, and H. R. 22830," pages 39-51, you will find that P. J. Hurley, who at that time had not obtained the prefix of " honorable " to his name, appeared before the House committee on March 18, 1910, and urged the enrollment of the " Ward family," embracing the claims of 26 persons, as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. He then appeared for claimants, claiming right to enrollment as members of the Choctaw Tribe. He was employed by them to present their claims, and he insisted that they had been improperly left off the Choctaw tribal roll. At that time he was apparently sincere in his contention. He submitted a lengthy argument and documents in support of the " claim. The persons for whom he then appeared were possessed of about one-eighth of the amount of Choctaw blood possessed by Hon. Gabriel E. Parker, who is enrolled as a one-eighth Choctaw. Within less than two years after P. J. Hurley made that appearance, and while employed by the Ward family, he sought and obtained employ- ment as the national attorney for the Choctaw Nation at a lucrative salary of $5,000 or $6,000 per annum and his expenses. As national attorney he was employed to prevent any further enrollment, and thereby employed to defeat the enrollment of his then clients, the Ward family. His then clients seeking enrollment in the Choctaw Nation as Indians were substantially white people, the greatest degree of Choctaw blood possessed by any of them being one sixty- fourth. At this point it is proper to state that the Chickasaws, if Congress will sever the cord that binds them to the Choctaws, will gladly pro- vide for the enrollment of all the persons that should have been enrolled as members of that tribe. The Creeks want the members of their tribe who have not been enrolled, but who are lawfully en- titled thereto, enrolled. The same is true of the Seminoles. The alleged report purporting to have been prepared by William L. Bowie, I charge was not written by him. It was written by P. J. Hurley, who had William L. Bowie appointed a deputy clerk. Yon will observe that on page 82 of the alleged report the following appears : As most of the evidence referred to herein was gathered by me during the time 1 was worlving under the direction of P. J. Hurley, Choctnw national at- torney, I suggest that he be furnished a copy of this report for his information. The alleged depositions show that P. J. Hurley was present when they were alleged to have been taken. The language of the report is unmistakably the language of P. J. Hurley. Why the request that a copy of the report be furnished P. J. Hurley? P. J. Hurley knew its contents. The real object was to enable P. J. Hurley to bring his spurious document to Washington, to secretively place it in the hands of Representatives, and through them have it embodied in a congressional document and thereby, under the pro- tection of the laws, escape criminal prosecution for the criminally libelous statements it contained, and also escape civil action. The hearing before the House committee at which this document was placed into the record was an executive hearing, only Members of Congress being allowed to be present. I had requested the privilege INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BII^L. 291 of being present and my request had been denied. A member of the House committee had requested that I be allowed to be present and be heard, and his request was denied. I had- no knowledge of the existence of such a document or that such an alleged investigation had ever been made, until a Member of Congress from Oklahoma on the floor of the House during the discussion of the Indian ap- propriation bill referred to the report, and whose remarks, appear- ing in the Congressional Record, were called to my attention two days after the speech was delivered. What are the charges contained in this report? Briefly, they may be summarized as follows: That on October 15, 1914, I went to Muskogee and engaged three office rooms located on the second floor of the Metropolitan building, in which building the superintendent to the Five Civilized Tribes maintained the Government offices, and in which building the offices of the United States officials were located; that I did not remain there long, but placed in charge of the office Mat M. Lindly, an at- torney of McAlester, Okla., and Perry Rodkey, an attorney of Oke- mah, Okla.; that I caused to be printed stationery upon which ap- peared my name and the names of Lindly and Rodkey, with the num- bers of the offices and with the further statement that I was an at- torney at law ; that I personally paid the rent and paid Lindly and Eodkey a salary. That much of the statement is true. It is further charged that Lindly has not for years drawn a sober breath. That statement is unqualifiedly false. Lindly, like many men, sometimes indulges in a glass of liquor. I have known him for more than 15 years. I have been with him as much as two weeks continuously at a time and I never saw him under the influence of liquor. It is charged that Lindly's reputation is at best questionable. I know of no man whose word I would accept more implicitly than the word of M. M. Lindly. It is true, as charged, that Lindly is not possessed of any great amount of property. This is decidedly in Lindlev's favor. In a country where graft has run rampant, as it has in the Choctaw Nation, it is rather in a man's favor that he is not wealthy. It rather indicates that he has been honest. Perry Rodkey's character is assailed. I have known Rodkey for a number of years. He is a Quaker. He is one of the most honorable men, so far as it has come within my knowledge, I have ever known. The fact that he is poor is no reflection upon his honor as a man, and yet this fact is dwelt upon with great force by this alleged " detailed special investigator," William L. Bowie. I opened offices in the same building in which the Government offices were located so that I might have easy access to the Government records and thereby insure accuracy. I antici- pated that possibly some vile attack might ultimately be made against me or my office force. I selected Rodkey and Lmdly, first, because I Imew them to be men in whom I could place absolute reliance, and second, because I knew them to be accurate. Lindly is probably the best informed man with reference to Choctaw and Chickasaw laws and enrollment matters in the world. He was a valuable aid Before going to Muskogee I advised the Indian Bureau of mv intentions. When I went to Muskogee I requested the repre- sentatives of the Government in the office of the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes to examine every person and their wit- 292 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. nesses before I wrote up the case. I made a similar request of the attorney for the Creek Tribe, Judge Allen, so far as the Creek cases were concerned, and while I was there a representative from Judge Allen's office did informally examine every Creek case prepared in my office, and stated to me that they were apparently entitled to en- rollment. The representative in Judge Allen's office who was pres- ent and examined the claimants was Mr. Montgomery, a highly re- putable attorney. I endeavored to make arrangements with the United States commissioner at Muskogee to take all acknowl- edgments in the cases. He asked me $5 for each acknowledgment. The price was prohibitive. I then made an arrangement with a notary public who I was informed by the Government officers was thoroughly reliable, and for several months thereafter he took all acknowledgments. Subsequently he was compelled to be absent for a while and Mr. Lindly made arrangements with a notary public by the name of Golden to do the work, and the alleged testimony shows that in every case Golden read the affidavits over to the parties before he M'ould permit them to sign them. While I was in the office no claimant was ever permitted to pay a nickel for the work of preparing the cases and no fee was charged or accepted directly or indirectly. I gave positive instructions that no charge, directly or indirectly was to be made, and I believe that my instructions were rigidly carried out. It sometimes hap- pened that in the preparation of the case it was necessary to obtain certified copies of Government records, and where the claimants were able to pay these expenses they were required to do so. They were also required where they were able to do so to pay the notarial fees. Undoubtedly where witnesses stated that they gave Lindly money it was for the purpose of paying for certified copies of the recoT-ds obtained from the commission, and which could only be ob- tained by paying the Government, charges. it is charged that Lindly and Eodkey represented themselves as agents of the Government, and further represented that the rolls had been reopened. There is no statement found in the alleged depositions that will sustain that statement. Here are a few samples of the statements made upon which the author of this alleged report bases the positive statement that Lindly and Rodkey represented themselves to be Government officers [reading] : Page 61 : " Q. Did not all of these applicants or claimants think they (referring to Ballinger, Lindly & Rodkey) were in the Government service? — ^A. I am not positive about that, but it is likely to believe that they were in the Government service, for he would not take any pay for what he did — Mr. Lindly." Page 70 : " Q. Mr. Ijindly told you that? — A. Yes, sir; he says you will have to pay your witnesses and notary fees. He told me I would have to do that before anything else took place. " Q. Tou are positive that he told you he was sent there by the Govern- ment? — A. Well, Mr. Lindly told me that. He says to me, I don't want a penny of your money; I am getting paid for taking up these petitions." Page 103 : "Q. What are the names of those persons occupying these offices? — A. Lindly. "Q. Do you know his full name? — A. No, sir. "Q. Any other persoh occupy these offices? — A. None but him that I know of. "Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. Rodkey? — A. No, sir; never saw him in my life. INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BI^^L. 293 "Q. Are you iicquaintecl with Mr. AYebster Ballinger? — A. Never saw him in my life. " Q. Do you know wliethei- Mr. Lindly is employed by Mr. Ballinger? — A. He said he was. "Q. Do you kiiow in what capacity he is serving Mr. Ballinger? — A. No, sir. " Q. Are any of the persons named connected witli the Government service? — A. I have not heard say whether any of these gentlemen is attached with the Government business or not. " Q. As a matter of fact, from what these applicants who go up there have said to you, don't they seem to think that these men are employed by the Government? — ^A. Well, I haven't heard or even had a person to implicate that to me until yesterday, and that was when two parties asked me if old man Lindly was employed by the Government, and I told them X didn't know whether he was or not. " Q. Is that what you told all of the applicants? — A. There hasn't even one asked me that but these two fellows ; this was the first persons that have asked me such a question, that was the first I heard of it." There is not a single one of these ex parte alleged depositions in which anyone stated that either Lindly oi Eodkey had repre- sented themselves to be officers of the Government, and the statement of William L. Bowie that the evidence shows that they did is un- qualifiedly false. The next charge, and the most serious one, is contained on page 58, wherein it is stated : A dozen or more professional witnesses wore constantly on hand at tlie Muskogee offices of these attorneys. Among those I name the following per- sons who seem to have acted as principal witnesses : Webster Burton. X\ec Nail, William .Tames, Will More, Ben Grayson, Wil- liam McComb, DoUie Stedham, D. L. (Tobe) Berry hill, William Thompson, and Wiley Mcintosh, jr. Most of these men acted as field workers also, together with" Nelson Durant, Manna Bruner, Willie Vann, Charles Guthrie, Charles Gould, and Nelson Grubbs. All these witnesses and field workers are negroes, with the exception of William McComb, Charles Gould, Charles Guthrie, Ben Grayson, and D. L. Berryhill ; the first three named being white persons, and the last two named Greek Indians. Nelson Durant, Ben Grayson, William James, Wiley Mcintosh, jr., Will Jlore, and Manna Bruner have served terms in the penitentiary. Ben Grayson, one of the persons named as having served a term in the penitentiary, is now and has been for a long number of years a member of the Creek council and has been one of the delegates to Washington. He has an intimate knowledge of the Creek people, and I am advised furnished my office valualile information ; m every instance the information being confirmed by the Government's records. Wiley Mcintosh, jr., another of the jailbirds, was formerly a member of the Creek council. He also, I am informed, furnished the office valuable information, which was confirmed by the Govern- niGiit TGCords Nelson Durant is a minister of the gospel. The information he furnished was corroborated in part by the Government records William James was not an ex-convict when he signed any affidavit in a citizenship case. He was convicted and sentenced to the peni- tentiary August 4, 1915. _ , , • 1 j: xu William Thompson was not a convict when he signed any ot the affidavits referred to. He was sentenced July 23, 1915. Wiley Mcintosh, Jr., was not an ex-convict when he si^ed the affidavits referred to. He was sentenced m October, 1915. Is it not possible that through the manipulations of WiUiam L. Bowie, serv- 294 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. ing both as a deputy clerk of the United States court in which these three men were tried and convicted and a detailed special investiga- tor of the office of the superintendent to the Five Ciyilized Tribes, that these three men may not have been railroaded to the penitentiary in order to further the ends of P. J. Hurley ? Not a single person named in the report, other than M. M. Lindly and Perry Eodkey, were directly or indirectly connected with my office. Nor had any one of the above-named persons any authority to speak for me or for Lindly or for Eodkey. I am informed that all of these parties called at my office frequently, as did hundreds of others. I did not know Any of them, and did not know until this report appeared in a congressional document less than a month ago that any ex-convict had ever made an affidavit in one of these citizen- ship cases. In order to safeguard against possible fraud every case briefed was submitted to the Indian Bureau with the following, or substantially the following, request made by me : I ask that your office investigate these cases and ascertain the facts with the view of making an appropriate recommendation to Congress for the en- rollment of those found to have been equitably entitled to enrollment, but who were not enrolled by reason of ignorance, mistake, or because of some technical legal bar. I am sending a copy of the papers transmitted to your office to Judgg Allen, national attorney for the Creek Nation, with a request that the cases be investi- gated by his office. Accompanying each case submitted to the Indian Bureau was a lit- eral copy of the record which the Indian Office was requested and did transmit to the attorney for the particular tribe in which the claimant claimed citizenship. The Indian Office accepted these pe- titions, transmitted the original copy to Muskogee and the carbon to the attorney for the tribe. P. J. Hurley at one time wrote in to the Indian Office to know if I was not improperly using-the frank of the Indian Office, which had been attached to the papers in the Indian Office by an employee of the Indian Office and mailed to Hurley. Accompanying east list of cases, or case submitted to the attorney for the tribe, was a letter, of which the following is a sample : July 27, 1915. P. .T. HuELET, Esq., Natio?ial Attorney Choctaw Nation, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Department of the Interior, Washington, D. C. Deae Sie : I inclose you a copy of a petition and evidence in support thereof of Ruth D. Lister, nee Robinson, applicant for enrollment as a member of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians as a citizen by blood. Her father was enrolled by the act of August 1, 1914, and her family is one of the leading families of the nation. I respectfully request that this case be investigated by you preparatory to its consideration by Congress at the next session. The original copy has been filed with the department for investigation. Very respectfully, Webstee Ballinqeb. In these petitions the post-office address of the claimants, and even the description of where the claimant was residing, together with the post-office address of the witnesses, were set out. Would a man conduct business in this open way who was attempting to secure by fraud rights to which his clients were not entitled? But I went a step further and personally requested the attorney for INDIA2Sr APPEOPBIATION BILL. 295 the Choctaw Nation if at any time he discovered any case in which fraud existed to call it to my attention, assuring him that I would join with him in prosecuting the guilty parties to the limit of the law. This man Hurley never apprised me of the dis- covery of any alleged fraud, and when he conducted these alleged investigations he afforded me no opportunity to be present or to have a representative present. The statements made are false, so far as they reflect upon me or upon Lindly or Eodkey. If any claimants ever paid a penny to any of the persons named in this report, it was paid without my knowledge, and I believe without the knowledge of either Lindly or Rodkey. With not a line of proof to support the charges, this report con- tains this scurrilous statement [reading] : Mr. Lindly has posed as the Government representative. There is no doubt in my mind that he has led these gullible negroes to believe that lie was repre- senting the United States Government in the work done by him * * *. Every circumstance — the renting of these offices in what was practically a Government building, the employment of criminal negroes in the organizations, and the uni- form system of misrepresentations practiced by them — all establish in my mind the fact that a well-laid scheme was concocted by the originators of this busi- ness. It is the evident purpose of Ballinger, Lindly, and Rodkey to so operate their business that the responsibility for the violation of law will rest upon the negro tools who have been employed by them. No witness was ever paid a penny in my office for signing an affidavit. The claimants themselves brought their own witnesses. The affidavits drawn correctly stated the facts as stated by the claimants and by their witnesses. The above statement is too outrageously false to require further comment. Attention is here directed to the fact that notwithstanding such a criminal conspiracy is charged, that Lindly and Rodkey impersonated Government offi- cers; that perjured affidavits were prepared in my office; that money was collected in violation of the law^ ; that many other criminal acts occurred on the part of my subordinates; notwithstanding all these things are charged, any one of which constitutes a criminal offense against the laws of the United States or the State of Oklahoma, the author of this report blandly states on page 82 that no criminal prosecution will lie, except possibly against William H. Vann and Nelson Grubbs, who were never at any time, directly or indirectly, in my employ or associated with me. Since this report became public I have received numberless letters from the claimants whose cases were prepared and briefed in my office, samples of which I will read. [Reading :] MoKKis, Okla. Mr. Webstbe Ballingee, Washington, D. C. Kind Sik : It seems that you kindly doubt the evidence of my petition, and I want to say to you that if there are any more proofs needed, that I can get 100 of as good people as there are in Oklahoma on my petition. All of my mother's sisters are here, and they and their children have their rights, and I don't see why I should be knocked out. So if there are any more witnesses needed, please let me know at once; and if not, please drop me a few lines if you have any spare time. Thanking you for your attention. Very truly, yours, IjIllie Shobt, Route 1, Box 90. 296 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. MoKRis, Okla., February 22, J916. Jlr. Webstes Ballinger, Dear Sir : I wish to thank you kindly for your information about my petition and will say in regard to the answer you gave me about it that it is true, every word ; and if it is necessary I can get a great number of witnesses. Yours, very truly, Jeff Cornelius, R. F. D. No. 1, Box 21. In only a fractional part of the cases subniitted appear affi- davits signed by any of the parties referred to in the report, and in not a single case is the evidence confined to the statements an^ affidavits made by any or all of the persons named in this report. All I am asking, and all my clients ask, is that we be afforded an upright, honorable tribunal before whom these cases can be heard, and if the claimants are entitled to enrollment that they be enrolled. I know of my own personal knowledge that many of the cases pre- pared and briefed in my office are cases of full-blood Indians. I know that these persons should have been enrolled. I know that there can be no fraud attaching to those cases. It is proper here to state that I am not asking for the enrollment of persons of mixed negro blood as members of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes. In the Cherokee, Creek, and Seminole Tribes it is different. In those tribes the former slaves and their descendants were given by treaty equal rights in the tribal property with the In- dians. The author of this report has deliberately referred to appli- cations of former slaves and their descendants for enrollment as members of the Cherokee, Creek, or Seminole Tribes, as applications for enrollment as members of the Choctaw or Chickasaw Tribes, thus deliberately attempting to create the impression that I was filing applications of negroes for enrollment as Indians by blood of the Choctaw or Chickasaw Tribes. Senators, there are a large number of real Indians in that country who have not been enrolled — no one knows or will know how many there are until their cases are inquired into. All that I ask of Con- gress, all that I have ever asked, is that you clothe the Secretary of the Interior with power to investigate the cases of real Indians who are not enrolled ; that the Secretary make such investigation and sub- mit his finding to Congress, and that Congress enroll, those that are found entitled thereto. To effectuate this I suggest the following provision : " That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to immediately investigate the claims of all persons equitably entitled to enrollment as citizens of either of the Five Civilized Trbes and not hereto- fore enrolled, including any meritorious cases heretofore adjudicated, and denied solely upon a legal technicality or without proper consideration and report to Congress the names of any such persons that may be found to be equitably enti- tled to enrollment on the respective citizenship rolls of said tribes; and to defray the expenses of such investigation the sum of $25,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, is hereby appropriated out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated to be immediately available." I have here a letter, signed by M. M. Lindly, setting out what transpired in my office in my absence and the facts in connection with citizenship cases. INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 297 (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) w,.»c!n™.„ -D ^ Muskogee, Okla., Februan/ tl, l!H6. Webstek Ballenger, Esq., , . u. Washington, D. V. T^^ot" A^r-' ^ i"®.l®"'-3? ^^^ ™Py o^ "i'^ hearings before the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Eepresentatives, and have gone through it but nave nad no time to prepare an ansAver to Siinie as far as this office is con- I will have to admit that I did send in the affidavits of one ex-convict that I did not know about until I received the report, and that is Ben Gravson Now, about the said Ben Grayson. I want to say that he is one of the promi- nent Creek citizens, one of the chief's right bowers ; that Is, he has come to Muskogee many times with him, and I may say that he is a representative Creek citizen in tribal afCairs, for he is a present member of the Creek Council. I know It to be the fact that he was prominent in securing all or at least a great many of the petitions for the removal of the Creek attorney, for I saw his papers and his printed petitions before and after thev were signed I did not ask anyone if he had ever been a convict and it did not occur to me. I con- sidered that I could not get better testimony, and I want to say very frankly that the affidavits that he made are such as would convince any reasonable per- son that he knew just what he was talking about, and will venture the asser- tion that they will not be denied or. at least, not suecessfullv controverted. Now, another witness that Mr. Bowie names as an unreliable person is Wil- liam McCombs. The truth is that during the time that he made most of the affidavits he was employed by the Dawes Commission as some kind of an in- terpreter ; he, like Ben Grayson, was one of the prominent men in the settling of who should be the Creek attorney, but was working for Judge Allen, and much of the time I knew .iust what he was doing, as he was trying to And out what Ben Grayson was doing and Ben was trying to find out what he was doing. He has filled every office in the Creek Nation except principal chief, and is said to have refused to run for that; was nine years the supreme judge and always at council, either in an advisory capacity or as a member thereof. His affidavits are all conservative, and he \^'as careful to read evervone and know just what it contained himself. It will require proof, not blackmail, to controvert such testimony. Now, about William .Tames, who was recently sent to the State penitentiary, where he is now keeping company with W. H. Wainright, the former county treasurer of Muskogee County. They were both all right before they were convicted. All of his affidavits are explicit, giving in many instances different reasons and circumstances to show that he actually knew the parties ; he made the affi- davits to me personally, and could not get any information from records and there was no one to tell him, as he knew more than any of the other parties. I see by the report that he did not stand up on a Choctaw affidavit that he made. The only reason that I can think of for his doing this is that they had him facing the penitentiary, and he must have been bidding for clemency. If this Is not the reason, I am at a loss to knew what was, for he certainly told me just what to write in each affidavit ; in most instances I read them over to him as I wrote them in order to get additional facts that would occur to him, and they were always read over to him by the notary. He was a citizen in good standing, with a knowledge of persons and a recol- lection of places and faces that was remarkable, to say the least. It is noticeable to see the effort made in questioning him to get him to state that Lindly represented that he was a Government officer ; what he did state when he was permitted to state what Lindly actually said (in substance) if the cases were successful, he would get pay ; and if not, he would get nothing. As to Wiley Mcintosh, jr., who was recently sent with William James to the penitentiary in the same case, was just an ordinary citizen, and came with some of his relatives or parties that he had always known, but only appeared in a few cases and not in any Choctaw cases. William Thompson, a Cherokee citizen, born and raised in the Creek and Cherokee Nations, and seemed to know many of the people, enjoyed a general good reputation, and no one could say anything different, as he was well be- haved and was a workingman, and was at work much of the time. That is what he told me and I understood from others. 298 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. The same with reference to Will Moore, but he was a Creek citizen. There was nothing against him when he was at the office and nothing now to snow that he was an exconvict. . , „,iinm Mr Alec Nail, against whom they can not even charge a crime, and wnom mr. Bowie denominates as a professional witness. „«?/!„„!+ i„ I submit that he had the same moral and legal right to make an affidavit in two or more cases, if he knew the parties, that he had to make any one of the affidavits tliat he did make. ,. ^ . „ i.,, „„„„„„ „ He insists that he was not trying to identify the applicants in all the cases as the parties that they represented themselves to be, but only m the ones that he That the statement that is contained in said report shows that he stated that he did not know a single one of the applicants shows that he never intended to make any such statement, for the reason that one of the applicants is his own son and is still living with him. That the Fisher case was a child born a few steps from his door, and his , wife was the " Grannie :" That he knew as much about the Perkins case as he did the two above men- tioned. That he actually knew all the people in the Williams case and quite a number of others that he has just told me that he did know personally the applicants and their ancestors. That the other cases he was just trying to identify the ancestors as mem- bers of the tribe, and in many instances relatives of the persons whose names did appear on the approved roll, but all of whom were dead. That those affidavits read that he was well and personally acquainted with the persons that the applicants state were their ancestors ; that these same affidavits state that he has just recently met the applicant. I submit that there was no other possible way to get this proof ; it is only a comparatively short time since September 25, 1902, when all of the Choctaws must have been living to be enrolled, and yet it seems to have been long enough for many of them to die that were enrolled. Then, in case of the death of the ancestors and their enrolled relatives, only the testimony of some one that knew the parties and their relationship and their tribal relations could be of value in making their proof and supporting the contention of the applicants. All of this the report gives Alec Nail credit for knowing. The case of Jane Driver, page 62 of the report, is an illustration of the ex- amination of Alec Nail, whom he claims was old, ignorant, and egotistic. Q. Do you know a. person named Jane Driver? — ^A. I don't remember. Q. Did you sign an affidavit identifying such a person in Mr. Ballenger's office? — A. I never identiiied a soul in that office. They had not a man in that office that I knew. A 4: yp A ijt ^ ^ Q. In this affidavit which you made in support of the petition of Jane Driver for enrollment as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation by blood you are made to state that you knew this applicant when she was a small child ; that you re- member that she could not talk to amount to anything ; that she was mentally all right, but did not have the faculty of speech. Did you state this in Mr. Ballenger's office? — A. No, sir ; there was no need of it. " Q. Did you know this woman when she was a small child? — A. No, sir." Now, Nail states that when he was asked about Jane Driver he did not know anyone by that name, and answered accordingly ; that he learned a little later at the same time who Jane Driver was, and that he told them that if Jane Driver was the married name of the Jane that he had made an affidavit for that he did know her when she was a small girl and that his brother Ben raised her ; that she could not talk to amount to anything ; that she was men- tally all right, but did not have the power of speech. This correction does not appear in the record, and thus Nail Is made to repudiate his affidavit solely for the rea.son that he did not know who he was talking about, not knowing the woman by the name of Driver, when in truth and in fact his original affidavit was properly written and correctly stated the facts. Take, again, the Eubanks case, on 88 of the record : Alec Nail Is asked 16 concrete questions with reference to the different parties named in the application before his affidavit is read to him ; then the affidavit is read to him, and it is as follows : INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 299 That he has recently met the applicant and that he is well and personally acquainted with the Choctaw Indians ; that he claims to have been his an- cestors; that his said father, William Eubanks, was the son of old Joe Eubanks, and that they were always counted full bloods ; they lived like full bloods. Affiant further states that he has heard read the affidavit of old Isaac Fulsom, with whom he was well and personally acquainted, and if there had been any doubts about the parties being Indians he would never have given them such an affidavit. Then a few more questions, which he answers intelligently, and then comes the question: Q. You state in this affidavit that William Eubanks was this applicant's father and that he was the son of old Joe Eubanks, and you have just stated to me that you do not know this person. — A. Well, not to my mind ; but if you would call over their names I could recall them. I never knew anything of the Eubanks until they came here. Thus it is shown how they bewildered the old man and then tried in the last question to get him to identify the applicant as the son of William Eubanks, whom he had testified was the son of old Joe Eubanks and who was a full blood Choctaw Indian. These illustrations show two things : That these affidavits were properly and correctly written, and the other, that denials of the same were procured by improper and unjust methods of cross-examination of the witness, regardless of his old age and illiteracy and in the face of the fact that his reputation for truth and honesty was good. As to Webster Burton, his reputation is good with everybody except Mr. Dowie. He will eventually have to account to him for being a colored man. As to Nelson Durant and his connection with the office, will say he never was interested in any way with the running or the results of this office. He was employed solely and only by the applicants. After Mr. Rodkey left the office he would help the applicants to prepare their cases for my considera- tion and the preparation of papers. Many of the parties had appeared before the Dawes Commission, and I ab- solutely refused to vsrite up their cases without knowing what had been done there. Some had records there, some had none. It was necessary, therefore, to find out what, if any, record was there and to get a copy of it, or at least to know whether they had had a day in court and had a judgment against them and what it was. I was not reviewing the Dawes Commission work, and hence was trying to avoid their former cases, except some memorandum cases that they had turned down for want of jurisdiction. Nelson Durant, being a member of the Creek council and known to the Dawes Commission, could get these things as well as I could. He would either read the record and come and tell me what it was or would order a copy and bring that. This I did not have the time to do. I did try to do it for a while at the request of yourself, without any charge to the applicants, but soon found out that I would spend all my time at that, and refused to continue it because I could not do that and do the other work of the office that I was compelled to do. The Dawes Commission recognized Nelson Durant, the Creek citizens elected him to their council, and his church ordained him as a minister. I knew nothing personally about him, and treated him iust as did the other people— as a representative of the Creeij Nation and a good citizen. He was quite a popular negro, well educated and gentlemanly, and people generally spoke well ot him. It was only a short time before he made his last trip to the ottice— he lived at Boley, Okla.— that I learned that he had a prison record. He was good enough to associate, as a colored man ma business way, with the general public, but an awful villain in the eyes of Mr Bowie What if Christ had been like Mr. Bowie ? 300 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. There has been so much said in the report about the papers that he wrote that I deem it proper to state just what they were. The information in the report was gathered from persons who could not read or write or who did not understand the nature of it, just like many other things reported as illegal or improper. He would make a pencil memoranda of the name of the applicant, name of father and mother; which was Indian by blood or if both were, and how much; find from the roll if either had been enrolled, and, if not, find out whether or not they died prior to final enroll- ment ; if they did, take from the applicant the names of their brothers or sisters and other relatives that were enrolled; look up their roll number; get the dates of their marriages, the names and ages of their children, dates of their marriage, and especially of females who changed their names by marriage, and the names and ages of their children, if any ; then get their birthplace in the tribe, and, if not born in the tribe, when they emigrated into the tribe; why they had not been enrolled by the Dawes Commission; and any and all other facts that Avere material to the making of a full and fair state- ment of their application. All of these were necessary, and these are the papers that he handed me or read to me. He never even offered to make an affidavit in any case. He consulted with other members of the Creek council that came to the office with applicants and often told me of cages that he did not think were proper to write up. This information he had gathered as the secretary of the citizenship committee of the Creek council. He seemed to pay his own railroad fare and hotel bills and collect his own pay from the parties that employed him. As to Nelson Grubbs and William Vann : Mentioned in the report as the originators of the Cherokee Freed- men Association and their relations with the office will say: They worked independent of this office as the Cherokee Freedmen Asso- ciation, .and the only business that was ever transacted here with them was the forwarding of the applications that they had prepared. When I forwarded the second list, you wrote me that the appli- cations were not what they had promised to secure, as none of the applicants seemed to be on the 1880 roll, or at least very few of them, and that you did not care for the business, and I so notified them, and they never brought any more papers or came to see me. I did correspond with them with reference to the preparing of the petitions they were to transmit, instructing them to get the roll num- bers of each person on the different rolls and to have the party fully identified as the person named in the application and to make them in triplicate. This office has no means of knowing whether or not the matters stated by Mr. Bowie in his i;pport are true or not, as they acted sepa- rately and independently for the Cherokee Freedmen Association. As to the notary public, Mr. Julius Golden : I know what he charged the applicants as notary fees, and know that he charged less than the legal fee in each case; that many of them did not have all the money and some of them none, yet he always fixed up their papers and trusted them. The insinuation that he divided his fees with Eodkey and Lindly is base and is as untrue as it is shallow. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 301 The statement " that he believes that he would not hesitate to enter any scheme to defraud, if he thought that he could not be reached by the law for connection therewith," is simply slanderous. Mr. Julius Golden administered the oath to Judge Campbell, United States district judge, on one or more occasions, and also to B. A. Enloe, United States marshal, and is generally known in all the courts as a safe and conservative notary public, and his general i-eputation is such that none of his work has ever been questioned. He states that Mr. Bowie did not tell him that the affidavits were all false, but that he told him that the parties had said that they did not sign some of them. This he knew to be false and he did not believe and paid no further attention to it. That he explained to Mr. Bowie, in reference to his fees, that he had to read over all the papers and did so and that they were all inade in triplicate and that he did not charge all of his legal fee; that he had never signed or sealed an affidavit that he had not read over to the party affiant or petitioner and that he challenges Mr. Bowie to produce any reputable person in the city of Muskogee that will say aught against him; that he gives as reference all the courts of record, the recorder of deeds, and business man of the city. With reference to the case of Mollie Nathan, page 75 of report, will say : That Judge Allen, the Creek attorney, took up the matter with her, and slie came to me and I went back to Judge Allen's office with her. I promised him that I would investigate the matter and I did ; I did not have to see any person but the applicant and Nelson Durant, who happened to be in the city at the time. I presume that the applicant came. to the office as she states the first time, although I don't remember it. After talking with her I did recall that I made her some trouble with reference to her wit- nesses ; that I refused to accept the witnesses that she had brought for the reason that they were too young, just looked like they were less than 30 years of age, and told her that she would have to get wit- nesses as old or older than she was to prove the facts that she had to prove. Then it was that she went to Durant and he secured the services for her of proper witnesses. Thus it was that Durant had to pay the two sets of witnesses out of her money and he had very little left. I did not go back to see Judge Allen and explain, as I was too busy. The applicant was entirely satisfied about the matter. With reference to the case of Mary Ross [p. 87, Report], This applicant came into my office from upstairs in a frenzied condition — excitement does not express it. She said they were going to send her to the penitentiary; that the United States man had just told her so ; that they had already sent William James to the " pen " for making affidavits in this office ; and that they told her that she had to go, too. I found out from talking with her that it was Mr. Bowie who had terrified her, and asked her what she had told him, but she could not remember, she was so scared. I called the attention of other parties to the woman, and started to take her affidavit, but she was in no condition to give it on account of her fright. Mr. Bowie had secured her appearance before him by writing her a letter stating that she had promised to come and had failed. She did not remember writing him a letter, and says she never did. I told her to keiep the letter, and Avhen she got so 302 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. she could be back to her right mind, if it was necessary, I let her knew, and she said she would come back and bring the letter and tell all about it. With the cases that I have mentioned I think it is safe to say that the parties have just been overawed — frightened, or, well, we call it in this country "Jim-crowed"; that a desperate effect has been made to dispose of the applicants as a whole instead of giving them consideration and a fair show. When Gov. Johnson, of the Chickasaw Nation, and Gov. Lock, of the Choctaw Nation, were here they went over the affidavits of Alec Nail with him, and he states that they both conceded that he was correct as to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians that he stated were Choctaws and Chickasaws, and that there was nothing wrong in his affidavits. I have only referred to a limited number of the cases — those tlTat I recall and know about, and state that the rest of them are subject to some similar explanation; that Alec Nail, on whom he seems to rest principally, just states that Mr. Bowie " stuck " the questions to him and that he made the answers ; that if he had heard the petitions read and his affidavit and had had the same opportunity to recall and reflect that he had at the time that he made the affidavits, that his answers would have been the same as the affidavits. It is a fact that in each and every application that was made the blood of the applicant came from the mother; this being true they were such persons as the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations were and always have enrolled as Indians by blood. They could not make a freedman case, because they .were not the descendants of enrolled freedmen. I desire to say further that nothing in this statement is intended to reflect anything against the several attorneys that represent the tribes. Parties that have appeared before them have uniformly stated that they were respectfully treated, and the same thing was said of the two governors above mentioned. It is certainly a remarkable proceeding when a man representing the Government takes up a lot of witnesses and insists that they are a bunch of crooks and exconvicts ; that they are of the criminal class and the petty-thief kind, etc., when each and every one of them are doing business with the Government through tlie Dawes Commission as members of their respective tribes, and I venture the assettion that not a one of them ever have to be identified or vouched for. And still worse than that is he on his coordinate branch of the Government when he assails the testimony of William James and. Wiley Mcintosh, jr., for long after they made affidavits in this office they were men of such good standing and repute that the Dawes Commission opened up the Treasury and paid out the money on their affidavits. These are not mere assertions; they are matters of record, and show conclusively that there is a " nigger in the woodpile " as well as in the cases. I would not, neither do I think that special employment would justify any person with accusing the department's representatives with such gross negligence and, you might say, criminal carelessness. I submit that the Dawes Commission was as guilty of a conspiracy to defraud the Government when they took the affidavits of two wit- INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 303 nesses whom they had every reason to believe were responsible as was this office when it took the affidavits of the same two witnesses in behalf of applicants — I refer to William James and Wiley Mcintosh, jr. — and I surely and sincerely am not accusing them of not being vigilant, careful, and cautious, for they are. Now, as to the office being located in the same building with the Dawes Commission and other United States offices, will say that I have fully explained that in order not to review cases that had been fully determined and finally adjudicated by the Dawes Commission it was necessary to consult the records ; this was a safeguard against unnecessary cases and fraud, and was located as closely to the rec- ords as possible for convenience. Applicants would have gone to any other building the same as they came to this one. As to the accusation that any party representing this office repre- sented that the office was a Government office, and that the writer was in the Government employ, will say : That no one but Mr. Perry Rodkey and the writer, Lindly, ever represented this office, or if they did, it was without my authority. I will say that I don't believe that Mr. Eodkey ever did such a thing, and I know the writer never did. But, on the contrary, I was careful to tell the people, whether applicants or not, that this was not a Government office. It did cause me much trouble from the fact that the office would not charge fees for work done for the applicants. No work had ever been done that way before except by the Government, and they were slow to believe that it could be done any other way. I told them that the rolls were not open and, in my opinion, never would be. I did my best to convince everybody of the truth of these statements, and that was all that I could do, and the majority of the applicants and others so understood it. The applicants' answers in tlie report all show that the witness had heard a difeerent story than the one that was being sought from Jthem by framing the question so as to get the desired answer. This country is full of people that will substantiate the above statements. . I desire to say further in reference to the report of Blr. Bowie that he never fails to show that the parties, either applicant or witness, are negro, colored, or dark bay, or some other description amounting to the same thmg. He does not seem to realize that in the Creek Nation that nearly 60 per cent of the citizens are freedmen ; this the roll shows. I say that 60 per cent of the freedmen are off the roll ; that in addition to this, without casting any reflection on the Creek Indian by blood, that there are some on the Creek by blood roll with negro blood. ^ , , .j.^. i,. t. _„ „ Then I say that if you are in Rome you have to deal with the Romans. Mr Bowie disclaims all Creek matters and says he only refers to them inci- dentally, and so I will call that an incidental statement. ^ ^ ^ The Choctaws have been generous enough, if that is the proper way to state it, to enroll the descendants of their women, even though they, the women, have negro husbands, and, knowing this fact, I did not hesitate to ask for the enroll- mlnt of descendants from Choctaw women, and will say that all I have written "Volhow^that I know just what I am saying, I will say that I personally know thP fnmilv of Robert Morris (colored, not enrolled), whose wife was Ariau Morrfs roll NO S Choctaw by blood, and that Robert, Eddie, Abbie Cora Alice Gus and Jane Morris are the result of this union; also Sim Lewis, roll No T-iO Choctaw freedman, has a family enrolled by an Indian woman ; that fhe roll numbers of the Morris children are 1780 to 1786, inclusive. Th^wHtpr further submits that he denies each and every insinuation or allegation that charges this office with improper or illegal actions, and that he courts a full and fair Investigation. 304 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. That other matters in said report that have not been referred to have been omitted for lack of time, as you have requested that this communication be sent in at once. Respectfully submitted. M. M. LiNDLY. The Chairman. We will suspend at this moment, as Senator Catron is present and wishes to present a matter. Mr. Ballinger, you may be seated for the moment. INDIAN SCHOOL AT SANTA TE, N. MEX. Senator Catron. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I will not take over five minutes, I am sure. I have an amendment to the Indian bill about which I have spoken to Mr. Meritt — ^that is, I have not spoken about the merits but the facts with reference to the Indian school at Santa Fe. I have, as a matter of fact, two amendments. The last one was introduced simply to correct an error in the first one, so as to make it conform to what we desired, so that the last one is the only one I care to submit for your consideration. Senator Page. What page is that on ? The Chairman. It is on page 30 of the bill. Senator Catron. The proposition is for an increased appropria- tion for that school, providing for 400 students instead of 350, as you have it now. The school has now 392 students, and there are others who desire«to come in, but they will not accept them, and if this amendment is adopted we feel that it will probably accommodaie the 400 students, as it was promised last year that would be passed upon. I asked for it and it was left out last year, but it was stated that it might come up this year. You are giving the Albuquerque school the accommodations for 400, and I am simply asking that the school at Santa Fe be given the 400 instead of 350. We desire to increase the appropriation by that much. Senator Page. Mow much ought you to have ? Senator Catron. I do not Imow just what it is; Mr. Meritt can give you the exact amount. I have put in an estimate of it, but Mr. Meritt will have to correct the estimate. Mr. Meritt. One hundred and sixty-seven dollars for each candi- date we have asked as an increase. Senator Page. It only makes $1,000 or a little more above what we have allowed ? Senator Catron. Yes ; for 50 students. Senator Page. But the allowance is $67,150, and you say $68,950, as I understand it. Senator Catron. No ; my figures are not exactly correct, although that $68,000 may be there. Mr. Meritt. The total increase for the 50 additional pupils will be $8,350. Senator Catron. I will ask that that be put into the bill. I was as- sured last year that it would be put on. Senator Page. And $8,350 you would like to have added to the $67,150, as provided in the bill? Senator Catron. Yes, sir; that is correct, is it not, Mr. Meritt? INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 305 Mr. Meeitt. That is correct. The amendment was agreed to. ASSEMBLY HALL AND GYMNASIUM. Senator Cateon. The next item is an appropriation of $25,000 for assembly hall and gymnasium. Last year I made a request for that. It was given to the school at Albuquerque, but was not given ours, because it seemed they wanted to apportion this appropriation so that it would not all come at once, and I was assured we would have that the next time. The amount of that is $25,000 for the assembly hall and gynmasium. I have spoken to Mr. Meritt about that, and he has stated that he would be here to give it his indorse- ment. Is that not correct, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, we need the assembly hall and gymnasium for that school. We did not include it in our esti- mates for the reason that we wanted to keep the total amount at the lowest point possible. If the committee will give us the appro- priation for this building it can be used to advantage. Senator Cateon. I want to say one word about that. The Santa Fe location is a better location, a good deal, than the Albuquerque location, for health. These Indians, when they are brought from their Indian homes and put into these schools, seem to be afflicted more or less with an inclination to become consumptives or some- thing of that kind. When they are taken from outdoor exercise and outdoor environment and put into these houses they seem not to be able to stand it. A great many of them are afflicted in that way with some disease or other. Now, we want this hall and gymnasium, not in order to help them in that regard, but because it will be a benefit to the institution. You have given it to Albuquerque and there is no reason why it should not be given here, because the same reasons that caused it to be given there prevail here. The Chaieman. You live in this city, do you not? That is your home city? Senator Cateon. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. And have they no assembly hall there? Senator Cateon. None at all. Senator Geonna. I move that it be allowed. Senator Page. Allow what? Senator Geonna. $25,000 additional. Senator Page. You already have $8,350 in addition to the $67,150. Is that right, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. Since you live there and have such intimate knowledge with the situation, we would like you to assist the com- mittee on the floor. Senator Cateon. I shall be very glad to do that. The Chaieman. Is there anything else you desire to submit, Sen- ' Senator Cateon. That is all I desire, and I thank the committee very much. The amendment was agreed to. 31362—16 ^20 306 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW PEE CAPITA DISTRIBUTION. STATEMENT OF P. J. HURLEY, ESQ., NATIONAL ATTORNEY, CHOCTAW NATION. Mr. Hurley. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I was rather astonished that Mr. Ballinger, after having requested a hear- ing on this matter before the House committee, where the matter could be considered at length, has attempted to put it before this com- mittee in a very few minutes. I am not surprised at Mr. Ballinger's attitude toward me nor do I feel inclined to answer any «f his per- sonal references. The fact is that all those who are attempting to secure money or other things of value from the Choctaw Nation are inclined to criticize me. Especially is this true if their attempts are of a fraudulent nature. During last summer Mr. Ballinger served upon me, through the United States mail, 44 petitions in citizenship cases. These petitions contained the names of 250 applicants for enrollment, as citizens, by blood, of the Choctaw Nation. These applicants are not Indians. They are negroes. They do not reside in the Choctaw Nation. The great majority of them had never made application for enrollment in the Choctaw Nation until they were approached by the agents and runners of Mr. Ballinger and his associates. During my investiga- tion of these cases I developed the facts stated in the Bowie report in so far as those facts pertained to Choctaw cases. Mr. Ballinger's statement to the effect that I wrote that report is untrue. I did not see the report until a copy was given to me. As evidence I did not write.the report, I call attention to the fact it does not pertain en- tirely to Choctaw cases. The report rendered by Mr. Bowie covers Mr. Ballinger's operations in Creek, Cherokee, Seminole, and Chicka- saw cases. I represent only the Choctaw Nation. Mr. Ballinger's attempt to have the committee understand that I am guilty of some kind of unethical conduct as a lawyer is merely an attempt upon his part to besmirch my reputation in order to divert attention from his own questionable conduct. In the matter that Mr. Ballinger referred to I did represent 35 applicants for enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. I represented these persons before I became attorney for the Choctaw Nation. This matter was referred to before this committee some three years ago when I appeared here in opposition to the laayment of some $3,500,000 of Choctaw money on contracts that were held by an attorney who claimed to be repre- senting the Choctaws in matters pertaining to the sale of their tribal estate. The matter was entirely disposed of in my favor at that time, and I would not consider it again were it not for the fact that there are some Senators now here who were not present them. It was charged that I had represented claimants for citizenship in the Choc- taw Nation before I became the attorney for the Choctaw Nation, and it was intimated that I still represented them while attorney for the Choctaw Nation. This charge was shown to be false, and Mr. Ballinger was present at that time. It is true that before I became attorney for the Choctaw Nation I did represent 35 claimants to citizenship out of 60,000 persons who were claimants for citizenship. Thirty-five persons out of 60,000 persons is not a very large per- UNUIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 307 centage. There is not another case in the 60,000 that is similar to the case of the family of 35 that I represented. I find nothing in the fact that I once represented these 35 claimants that would disqualify me in representing the nation against all other claimants. No one else except those whom I am preventing from defrauding the Choc- taws consider me disqualified. Mr. Ballinger stated to you that after I had been employed to represent claimants for citizenship I sought and obtained the attorneyship for the Choctaw Nation. The fact is that I did not seek the attorneyship for the Choctaw Nation. I was invited to take that position by the principal chief of the Choctaw Nation. The principal chief is present and will no doubt testify upon that point if called upon to do so. The appointment of a tribal attorney is subject to the approval of the President of the United States. After having been appointed by the principal chief of the Choctaw Nation and before the presenta- tion of my contract to the President for approval, I wrote a letter to the President of the United States and one to the Secretary of the Interior stating to them that I had theretofore represened 35 claim- ants for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation, and insisted that it be understood before the approval of my contract that if my contract should be approved, that out of deference to legal ethics I should not be required to appear against my former clients in behalf of the Choctaw Nation. Since my appointment I have not appeared either for or against my former clients. With these facts before the Presi- dent and the Secretary, my contract was approved. This all oc- curred during the administration of President Taft. With all these matters in the record, I have since been reappointed by President Wilson. I feel that it is unnecessary to assure those who know me that I have in all matters and at all times adhered strictly to the ethics of my profession. I am somewhat gratified that after five years of the service of the nature required in my present position, that those who desire to attack my integrity have been able to find nothing in my entire record that could be distorted into the form of adverse criticism, with the exception of the fact that I once repre- sented 35 claimants for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation. I re- tired from those cases, with the consent of my clients, upon my ap- pointment as attorney for the Choctaw Nation, and it might be said in passing that those are clean cases, and a clean argument was presented for the enrollment of the claimants. The names of the claimants and my argument are matters of record in the proceedmgs of this comimittee, and I am not ashamed of the cases or the argu- ment that I presented in them. These cases were not hke Mr. Ballinger's cases; there was no fraud in them; no false affidavits made by professional witnesses, as there is in Mr. Ballinger's cases. What I have stated in this matter is borne out by the record of the hearings before this committee in regard to the so-called McMurray contracts, and also by the records of the Interior Department. Let us return now to the subject under consideration, b orty-tour petitions, containing the names of 250 applicants for citizenship m the Choctaw Nation were served upon me by Mr. Ballmger. Of these 44 cases 33 are corroborated by the affidavits ot Alec JNaii, an old negro, and 20 cases are corroborated by the affidavits of Webster Burton, a negro. In some cases the affidavits of Burton and Nail 308 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. appeared in corroboration of the same petition. These negroes are illiterate and sign by mark. They are used as professional witnesses by the firm of Ballinger, Lindley & Eodkey in citizenship matters which are being conducted by their office in Muskogee. That is the statement I made- Mr. Ballinger. They never were there Mr. Httelet. Wait a moment; I allowed you to finish without interruption. Now, gentlemen, for the purpose of this record I ask that there be inserted here the title of each case,_ the names of the witnesses who appeared, and the number of affidavits that they made. The Chairman. If there is no objection, that will be inserted. (The list referred to is here printed in full as follows:) LIST OF APPLICATIONS OF PERSONS FOK ENEOLLMENT AS CITIZENS BY BLOOD OF THE CHOCTAW NATION. Case No. 2. In re application of James Goings for himself and others for en- rollment as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, six. Supported by affidavit of Alec Nail. Case No. 8. In re application of Jackson Barrett for enrollment of himself and others as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, eight. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and W. M. James. Case No. SB. In re petition of Mary Ross, n6e Dunn, n§e Fulsom, for enroll- ment of herself and child as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, two. Supported by affidavits of W. M. James and Alec Nail. Note. — No petition bearing the numeral 4 was served upon me by Mr. Bal- linger. Case No. 5. In re application of John Harrison et al. for enrollment as citi- zens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants Involved, 23. Sup- ported by affidavits of Alec Nail and his brother, Peter Nail. Case No. 5A. In re application of Emily Mills, nee Allen, for enrollment of herself and minor child as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, two. Supported by affidavit of Nelson Tolbert. Case No. 5B. In re application of Koxy Flanegan for enrollment of herself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. This applicant Is a member of the John Harrison family, whose application appears under the numeral 5. No affidavit. Case No. 5C. In re application of Henry Logan King for enrollment of him- self and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of appli- cants involved, two. Supported by affidavits of W. M. James, Alec Nail, and Daisy Jackson, also Ada Williams. Cases Nos. 6 and 6B. In re application of Melissa Marcy, n6e Carroll, n6e Birdsong, for enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choc- taw Nation. Number of applicants involved, seven. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and W. M. James. Case not numbered. In re application of Ruth D. Lister, n6e Robinson, for enrollment as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, one. Supported by affidavit of Alexander Robinson. Note. — ^No petitions served under numerals 7 and 8. Case No. 9. In re application of Thomas F. Eubanks for enrollment of himself and others as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants Involved, 16. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Johnson Gift. Note. — ^No application served under numeral 10. Case No. 11. In re application of Mattie Breedlove et al. for enrollment as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, five. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 12. In re application of Bertha Tolber for enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved not stated. Supported by affidavits of Henry Willard, or Woodward, and Dan Knoblin. Case No. 12A. In re application of Arthur W. Walton for enrollment of him- self and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of ap- plicants involved, 10. Supported by affidavit of Alec Nail. IKDIAN APPBOPEIATION" BILL. 309 Case No. 12B. In re application of Lee Love for enrollment of himself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, eight. Supported by affidavits of Alee Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 1,3. In re petition of .Turdean Smyers, for enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, seven. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and W. M. James Note. — No application served under numeral 14. Case No. 15. In re application of Lizzie Campbell, nee Lenox, nee Brown, for enrollment of herself and son as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Num- ber of applicants involved, two. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 16. In re application of John H. Duncan, in behalf of his children, the heirs of Pennsylvania Duncan, deceased, and for the enrollment of said Pennsylvania Duncan, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, twelve. Supported by affidavits of Thompson Peters, Mar- tin Brown, and Ben Grayson. Case No. 16A. In re application of Alice Cole, for enrollment of herself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, one. Supported by affidavits of J. H. Barrett and Alec Nail. Case No. 17. In re application of Jane Driver for enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, three. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail. Case No. 18. In re application of Mary Reaves, nee Hampton, et al., for en- rollment as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, fourteen. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 19. In re petition of Emma .Tones, nee Brvin, for enrollment of her- self and child as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of appli- cants involved, two. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 20. In re petition of Annie Abernathy, nee Frazier, for enrollment of herself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, one. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail. Note. — ^No application served under numeral 21. Case No. 22. In re application of John Adkins for enrollment of himself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, six. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail. Case No. 23. In re application of Willis S. Taylor for enrollment of himself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, five. Supported by affidavits of Hannah Musgrove, Webster Burton, and Alec Nail. Note. — No application served under numeral 24. , Case No. 2.5. In re application of Thomas Goings for enrollment of himself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, one. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail. Case No. 25A. In re application of Henrietta Roberts, for enrollment of her- self and family, and in behalf of her sister, Minnie Patterson, nee Bowman, and her family, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of appli- cants involved, thirty-one. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail. Case No. 26. In re application of Angle Flanagan, for enrollment of herself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, one. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail. Note. — No applications served under numerals 27 and 28. Case No. 29. In re application of Elizabeth Sexton, nee Folsom, for enrollment of herself and her deceased minor child as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, two. Supported by affidavit of Charlie Willard. Case No 30 In re application of John H. Lewis, for enrollment of himself and three "children as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, four. Supported by affidavit of Nelson Tolbert. Case No 31 In re application of Ida Lewis, nee Britton, for enrollment of herself and child as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation Number of appli- cants involved, two. Supported by affidavits of G. W. Wilson and Nelson Tolbert Case No 32 In re application of Tennessee Bicketts, nge Davis, for enroU- mmt nf hprself her children and grandchildren as citizens by blood of the Choc- tow Nation Number of applicants involved, 10. Supported by affidavit of Nelson Tolbert. 310 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. Case No. 33. In re application of Jennie Wilson, nge Ramsey, n§e HoUoway, nge Johnson, for enrollment of herself and minor children as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, 9. Supported by affi- davits of Graham W. Wilson and William Davis. Note. — No applications served under the numerals 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, and 51. Case No. 52. In re application of Sallie Piles, nge Stewart, nge Johnson, for enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of Applicants involved, 3. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 53. In re application of Charles A. Edwards, for enrollment of him- self and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nations. Number of appli- cants involved, 3. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Note. — No application served under numeral 54. Case No. 55. In re application of Mary L. Harrington, for enrollment of her- self and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of appli- cants involved, 4. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Note. — No applications served under numerals 56 and 57. Case No. 58. In re application of Perry Walker, .for enrollment of himself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, 1. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and James Goings. Note. — ^No application served under numeral 59. Case No. 60. In re application of John G. Williams, for enrollment of himself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, 11. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Note. — No applications served under numerals 61, 62, and 63. Case No. 64. In re application of May Kilby, n6e Bingham, for enrollment of herself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants in- volved, 1. Supported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Case No. 65. In re application of Viola Bullock, nee Dillard, for enrollment of herself as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Number of applicants involved, 1. Supported by affidavits of Webster Burton, Alec Nail, and Thomas Goings. LIST OF APPLICATIONS 01' PERSONS I'OE ENROLLMENT AS CHOCTAW FBEEDMEN. Case No. 1. In re application of Charles Harris, for enrollment of himself and family as Choctaw freedmen. Number of applicants involved, 3. No affi- davit. • ' Note. — No applications served under numerals 2, 3, and 4. Case No. 5. In re application of Alec Nail for enrollment of his minor child, Newton Nail, as a Choctaw freedman. Number of applicants involved, 1. No affidavit. Case No. 5A. In re application of Edwards Perkins, for enrollment as a minor Choctaw Freedman. Number of applicants involved, 1. Supported by affidavit of Jannie Lockett. Note. — No applications served under numerals 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Case No. 11. In re application of Henry Folsom for enrollment of himself and family as Choctaw freedmen. Number of applicants involved, 10. Sup- ported by affidavits of James Goings, Alec Nail, and Webster Burton. Case No. 12. In re application of Wiley G. Williams, for enrollment of him- self and family as Choctaw freedmen. Number of applicants involved, 8. Sup- ported by affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. Note. — No application served under numeral 13. Case No. 14. In re application of Sylvester Fisher, for enrollment of Freddie Carr, a minor, as a Choctaw freedman. Number of applicants involved, 1. Supported by affidavits of Kosa Nail and Alec Nail. Total number of petitions, 45; total number of applicants, 250; number of affidavits made by Alec Nail, 33 ; number of affidavits made by Webstei Burton, 20 ; number of affidavits made by W. M. James, 5 ; number of affidavits made by Nelson Tolbert, 4. P. J. HUBLET, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. Mr. Hurley. Mr. Ballinger made the statement during the course of his remarks that none of these negroes who served him and his associates as professional witnesses had been convicted of perjury. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 311 There is a good reason for that. They are not guilty of perjury. They are guilty of false swearing. The affidavits submitted by Mr. Ballinger are not affidavits required under any statute ; consequently they are merely false swearing, not perjury. There may be other charges upon which these gentlemen and all connected with this propaganda may be prosecuted, but in my judgment it will not be on the charge of perjury. It may be that all connected with this matter are guilty of a conspiracy to defraud, and that they have used the United States mail in furtherance of that purpose. This, however, is. not a matter of my concern. It is a matter for the district attorney. I am glad Mr. Ballinger has made it unnecessary for me to show his connection with this transaction. I have his letters, together Avith the envelopes in which he transmitted them through the United States mail, together with other evidence connecting him indissolubly with the firm of Ballinger, Lindley & Rodkey, of Muskogee, who conducted the cases which are here under consideration. The facts developed in my investigation this summer, which are corroborated by the records which I have here, are these: Mr. Ballinger rented an office in the Metropolitan Building at Muskogee, Okla. This is the building in which the offices of the superintendent to the Five Civilized Tribes are located. In this office Mr. Lindley, Mr. Bal- linger's partner, and a negro named Nelson Durant, an ex-convict, who posed as a lawyer, commenced operations in these citizenship cases. Mr. Ballingee. There was nothing of that kind The Chairman.' Mr. Ballinger, you will have two-or three minutes later for a rejoinder. Do not interrupt Mr. Hurley now. Mr. HtJELEY (continuing). Mr. Ballinger 's men, Webster Burton, Alec Nail, Nelson Durant, and others, brought in negroes; applica- tions of those negroes for citizenship were made out by Nelson Du- rant and Mr. Lindley. These applications contained false and fraud- ulent statements as to the identity of the person making the applica- tion. The false and fraudulent statements contained in those ap- plications were corroborated by the affidavits of Alec Nail and Webster Burton, and other negroes of the same caliber as disinter- ested persons. As shown by the testimony which I have here, Web- ster Burton and Alec Nail received from 75 cents to $2.50 for each affidavit that they made in corroboration of the facts that were stated in the petitions prepared by Lindley and Nelson Durant. These are the affidavits and petitions that were sent me by Mr. Ballinger for investigation. After a thorough and complete investi- gation of these cases I found that there was not one person whose name appeared in any one of the petitions who was legally, equitably, or morally entitled to citizenship in the Choctaw Nation. These persons do not reside in the Choctaw Nation. They have no Choctaw Attention is invited to the fact that only a very few of these ap- plicants made application or in any other manner attempted to pro- cure enrollment during the time that the rolls were being made. In their affidavits the attorneys have these applicants state that the reason that they did not make application was due to the fact that thev belonged to the so-called Snake or Ketooyah faction ot In- dians This faction of Indians opposed the allotment of land in 312 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. severalty. They adhered to the old tribal customs and insisted that the land should be continued to be held in common. This faction of Indians organized themselves in opposition to the enrollment and the allotment of lands in severalty. They were all full-blood Indians and lived largely in the remote and mountainous vicinities of the different tribes of the Five Civilized Tribes. When the attitude of the so-called Snake faction became known to the United States Government, the Government sent special agents into the remote districts to seek out the adherents of the Snake faction. As a result, they found every Indian who claimed to be a member of the Snake faction ; they were arbitrarily enrolled and arbitrarily allotted, care being taken by the Government to select for them the best land avail- able. As a consequence, the Snake Indians own more of the good' land in Oklahoma than any other class of Indians. Mr. Ballinger and his associates seek, through the methods which I have described, to induce you gentlemen to believe that these negroes, who have been induced by Mr. Ballinger's associates to sign petitions, were Snake Indians. There is not one Indian among them. During all my in- vestigation I did not find one of them who could speak one word of the Choctaw language. The Snake Indians were full-bloods and spoke only the Indian language. These applicants can not speak a word of Choctaw, yet they claim to have belonged to the organiza- tion that opposed enrollment. A statement to the effect that these negroes are Snake Indians sounds rediculous in Oklahoma, where he attitude of the Snake Indians are known. These applicants, as shown by the addresses given in their petitions, live at Sapulpa, Tulsa, and Muskogee, the most populous towns in jQklahoma. These towns are not located in the Choctaw Nation. It would be unheard of to think of the Snake Indians coming down from their mountain homes to reside in these cities, yet Mr. Ballinger and his profes- sional witnesses would, if uninterrupted, be able to prove that this has been done. Let me refer specifically now to some of the cases. For instance, one applicant swears, and his sworn statement is corroborated by two professional witnesses, that the applicant is the daughter of Leonard Wright ; that Leonard Wright is a brother of Allen Wright, who was principal chief of the Choctaw Nation. I have the petition here and would like to have you read it, as well as the affidivats of the two so-called disinterested parties. After reading it, you would have the impression that the statement is true and that this Indian had been deprived of her birthright. The investigation which I made further disclosed the fact that Allen Wright never had a brother; that he migrated from Mississippi in 1831 as an orphan boy 8 years of age. He had one sister. His sister grew up and married in Indian Ter- ritory. She is the mother of Judge AUingiton, of Atoka. Judge Allen Wright, of the firm of Wright & Boyd, of McAlester, Okla., is a son of Chief Wright. Chief Wright never had a brother, yet according to -the affidavits which I have here and the affidavits in corroboration thereof this negro is a niece of the principal chief of the Choctaw Nation and a first cousin to Judge Wright, of Mc- Alester. I submit, gentlemen, that that is a slander as well as an effort to obtain through fraud a right to participate in Choctaw property. In another case served upon me by Mr. Ballinger and his associates the applicant alleges that he is the son of Frances Hunter INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 313 and Tolliver Barnette ; that Frances Hunter was a sister of Thomas W. Hunter, who is famous among the Choctaws. Thomas W. Hun- ter made a race for the office of principal chief in 1902. There was a controversy over the election, and by force of arms the adherents of Hunter took possession of the Choctaw capital and held it against the Choctaw Nation for several days. It was finally taken from them by the United States troops. Thomas W. Hunter is now a member of the State Legislature of Oklahoma. He is a character who is well known in Oklahoma. This applicant claimed that he was a son of the sister of Thomas Hunter. Among other things, the petition contains a statement in regard to the Hunter family — shows the names of the father and grand- father, etc. I thought probably there might be something m the statement, as these applicants were not negroes; they looked more like white people ; so I sent the petition to Mr. Thomas W. Hunter, and I immediately commenced an investigation of the case. The investigation developed the fact that Thomas W. Hunter never had a sister named Frances Hunter. Further investigation showed that Thomas W. Hunter's father was not known by the name alleged in the petition; in fact, his name was not Hunter. Thomas W. Hun- ter's father was a full-blood Choctaw Indian and was known as Benahuntubby. The nearest the white people could get to pronounce the name was Bennehunta. This finally developed into the name of Bennie Hunter. When Tom Hunter was sent away to school he became known under the name of Thomas W. Hunter. This petition and the affidavits in corroboration thereof fixed Thomas W. Hunter and his family up with a line of ancestors and collateral kindred bearing English names, but aside from this part of the case the peti- tion and the affidavits show that the petitioner is the son of a woman who never existed. • Mr. Ballinger has made a long argument to show that Mr. Bowie does not legally hold the office of deputy clerk of the United States court for the eastern district of Oklahoma. He attacks the legality of the appointment of the officer before whom the witnesses swore rather than, the testimony of the witnesses. I am not much concerned in regard to whether or not Mr. Bowie is a legally qualified and act- ing de jure or de facto clerk of the United States court for the eastern district of Oklahoma. I am interested only in the correctness of the facts which he has ascertained from the witnesses. Mr. Ballinger seems to be not in a position to deny the correctness of the testimony of his professional witnesses wherein they have repudiated the affi- davits which Mr. Ballinger and his associates procured from these witnesses and attached to false petitions which Mr. Ballinger served upon me through the United States mail. Mr. Ballmger's attack on Mr. Bowie is rather in the nature of an attack upon the manner of impaneling the jury than an attack upon the correctness of the facts found by the jury. I will not consider his argument in this matter further unless he is able to show that the conclusions reached by Mr. Bowie on the facts ascertained by him in his investigation are not correct This I know Mr. Ballinger can not do. I am familiar with the facts stated in the Bowie report in so far as they pertain to Choctaw cases, and I know them to be correct. .,,.,, Now gentlemen, I have not said, anythmg disrespectful to Mr. Ballinger nor do I intend to do so. His statements about the sur- 314 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 1 eptitious manner in which I filed the Bowie report is incorrect. I did not file th^t report. This is my first appearance in this matter, and this is the record of my investigation which I have here with me. I am ready to submit it now. I do not feel that I am appearing before this committee secretly or that I am attempting to place any- thing before you in a surreptitious manner. Mr. Ballinger stated to you that my reason for not coming boldly out with the statements contained in the Bowie report is due to the fact that I am afraid of prosecution at his hands. I do not feel that T should fear prosecution for stating the truth. It is a fact that every witness used by Mr. Ballinger has repudiated the affidavits made by him in corroboration of the affidavits filed by Mr. Ballinger. " Every one of Mr. B.allinger's professional witnesses have impeached their own testimony. I have not attempted to disbar Mr. Ballinger. I have purposely refrained from making a statement of my opinion in regard to the professional ethics of his conduct. That is not a part of my duty. Neither is it my duty to prosecute Mr. Ballinger and his associates. 1 do not know what will be done when this record comes to the atten- tion of the parties whose duty it is to prosecute those who violate the law. What I have said to this committee is for the purpose of enabling the committee to determine what its attitude shall be toward a man who is so loose in his practice as to allow a condition of this kind to develop. I am not responsible for the condition. I did not begin this matter in order to investigate Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Ballin- ger asked for the investigation, and the investigation which he asked for, but which he did not think would be made, developed the facts which I have submitted to you. When I went into these cases I found them so fraudulent and the attempt to secure enrollment of these persons so unjust and unconscionable that I could not do other- wise than complete the investigation. I have arrived at the conclu- sion, gentlemen, that Mr. Ballinger and his associates could not by the most astute fraud be able to secure the enrollment of any of these apiDlicants as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. Then why should they continue to take these applications? I will tell you. Nelson Durant, a negro ex-convict, who is always to be found in the outer office of the firm of Ballinger, Lindley & Kodkey at Muskogee, col- lects fees from these applicants. We have evidence here to show that through means of this go-between. Nelson Durant, and in some instances other negroes of questionable character, the applicants are each relieved of a fee ranging from $5 to $60. Then the propaganda is carried on, not for the purpose of enrolling these persons, but for the purpose of separating ignorant and gullible negroes from what little money they have. The taking of fees from, applicants for enrollment is in violation of the act of Congress of August 1, 1914. Besides obtaining fees from these negroes, Mr. Ballinger and his associates had another object in view in preparing these petitions and supporting them by affidavits. If I had not investigated these cases Mr. Ballinger would be here with his petitions in an attempt to show ■ you gentlemen that these negroes are Indians who have been deprived of their birthrights, and would be asking you to further postpone the distribution of Choctaw funds until this claimant cases could be con- INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 315 sidered. This is merely another step by those who have opposed a distribution of the Choctaw funds to defeat the provision authorizing a per capita payment to the Choctaws and Chickasaws which is car- ried in the present bill. Now, gentlemen, I have stated briefly our case. We have here the pictures of the men who served as runners, agents, and witnesses for Mr. Ballinger and his associates at their offices in Muskogee. These pictures give their names and their cell numbers and where they have served time in the penitentiary. I think it would be well to insert them in the record at this point. Senator Ctjetis. Those are all printed, are they not, in the House hearings ? Mr. Hurley. They are. The Chairman. The photographs all appear in the House hear- ings. It would take an order of the Senate to have them inserted in our record. Mr. Hurley. Then let me withdraw that request, if the committee has all the information it desires. I will ask the committee if it will be possible for me to have 8 or 10 cases inserted, and in order to be fair to Mr. Ballinger I will take those cases consecutively, so as to show that I have not picked out the worst cases; say, have 10 cases printed, to show that the facts I have stated are corroborated by the record which I have here. The Chairman. You refer to the 10 cases of people applying for enrollment as citizens ? Mr. Hurley. Yes, sir. Senator Ovshen. Which were served on you ? Mr. Hurley. Which were served on me by Mr. Ballinger. Senator Owen. I move that be done, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Very well; the 10 cases may be inserted in the record. (The 10 cases referred to are here printed in full as follows :) Case No. 1 Application of Ruth D. Lestei-. Note. — This case was not numbered. I am submitting It as No. 1, not be- cause It logically belongs in that place, but because special stress was laid upon this case by Mr. Ballinger. * Case No. 2 Apijlication of James Goings, et al. ' Case No. 3 Application of Jackson Barrett, et al. Case No. 3B Application of Mary Ross. No case was served upon me under the numeral 4. Case No. 5A Petition of Emily Mills, et al. Case No. 5 Application of John Harrison, et al. Case No. 6 and 6B Petition of Melissa Marcy, nSe Carroll, et al. No cases were served upon me under the numerals 7 and 8. Case No. 9 Application of Thomas F. Eubanks, et al. ° Note —It should be noted that while no cases were served under some numerals, a number of cases will be found to have been served under the same numeral. , ,„ " No case was served under the numeral 10. , -,-, v. ^ The case of Mattie Breedlove was -served under the numeral 11, but was served after the Investigation of other cases in Oklahoma had been completed and after I had come to Washington, and consequently has not been fully in- vpcstisrated It might be stated in passing, however, that this application is also suDDorted by the affidavits of Webster Burton and Alec Nail— the two ne^o wftnesses so prevalently used by Mr. Ballinger and his associates in 316 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. corroboration of the false statements contained in tlie petitions wliich were filed with me. ' Case No. 12 Application of Bertha Tolber, et al. * Case No. 13 Petition of Jxirdean Smyers, for enrollment of herself and others. 'These cases are not chosen out of the 44 that were served upon me by Mr. Ballinger as containing the most conspicuous evidence of fraud and false swearing. They are taken in their numerical order. CASE NO. 1. Statement of P. J. Hueuet, Attoenet, fob the Choctaw Nation In Re: Applicatcon foe the Enrollment of Ruth D. Listee, NiiE Robinson, as a Citizen by Blood of the Choctaw Nation. Before the Secretary of the Interior. petition of exjth d. listee (eobinson), foe bneollment as a membee of the choctaw teibe of indians as a citizen bt blood. To the Seceetaey of the Inteeioe : Your petitioner, Ruth D. Lister, nge Robinson, respectfully petitions the honor- able Secretary of the Interior to investigate her case, and if the facts justify such recommendation that Congress be requested by the honorable Secretary, the administrator of the Choctaw estate, to enroll her as a member of the Choctaw tribe as a citizen by blood ; and thereupon petitioner shows : That she is a daughter of William F. Robinson by his lawful wife, Emily F. Robinson nge Bond, who were lawfully married June 15, 1882. That as a re- sult of said marriage petitioner was born June 5, 1883, on Hull's Cow Ranch, Pictens County, Chickasaw Nation. That her father was a duly enrolled and recognized citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation at the time of his marriage and at all time since. That on the Sunday before Easter, 1884, he had trouble with a man by the name of Houston, injuring him, and believing he had killed him, left the Chickasaw Nation and was never heard of again until 1904, and after the rolls were closed petitioner learned that her father was living in Texas, had remarried, and had a number of children by his second wife. That during the enrollment period petitioner was a minor, and had no knowledge that it was necessary for her to file an application to secure her enrollment, and had no one to look after her interests. That her father and all of his children by his second wife were enrolled by the act of August 1, 1914, their names appearing in Senate Document No. 478, Sixty-third Congress, second session, as a result of an investigation and report made by W. 0. Pollock, Esq., and set out in Senate Document No. 1139, Sixty-second Con- gress, third session, page 69. That her rights claim to enrollment is established by her affidavit hereto attached and the accompanying papers, and by the affidavit of her uncle Alexander Robinson, an enrolled member of the Choctaw Tribe, residing at Doyle, Okla. Wherefore, petitioner prays that her case be investigated, and that suitable steps be taken to obtain from Congress appropriate legislation for her enroll- ment and the payment to her of her equitable share of the property of the Choctaw Tribe. Respectfully submitted. Ruth D. Listee, By , Her Attorney. State of Tennessee, County of Blount, ss: Ruth D. Lister, being by me first duly sworn according to law, deposed and said : I am the daughter of William P. Robinson and Emily F. Robinson (nee Bond), who were married June 15, 1882. I was born June 5, 1883, my father and mother living at that time on Hull's Cow Ranch, Pickens County, Chicka- saw Nation. On the Sunday before Easter, 1884, on which day he had trouble with a man by the name of Houston, struck Houston and nearly killed him, and, believing Houston would die, left the country, and I have never seen him INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 317 since. I never heard from him again until 1904, after the rolls were closed so far as the receipt of applications were concerned. Several years after the departure of ray father my mother brought me to Tennessee, where I was living on June 28, 1898, being at that time a minor child. I had no knowledge that rolls were being made of the Chostaw Indians preparatory to the division of the tribal property, and did not learn of such fact until It was too late to make application. My father, William P. Robinson, together with his six children by his second wife, were enrolled pursuant to the act of August 1, 1914, his name and the names of his six children by his second wife appearing in Senate Docu- ment No. 478, Sixty-third Congress, second session, the names of his children and my half brothers and sisters appearing therein, being as follows : AUice, jUpha, Adda B., James William, Emeline, and Mary Ola Robinson. My father's case was investigated in 1910 by Judge W. C. Pollock, and the facts with reference to his right to enrollment as a Choctaw Indian and his flight from the Choctaw country in 1883 are set out in Mr. Pollock's report which was printed as a part of Senate Document No. 1139, Sixty-second Congress, third session, page 69. I did not know that my father was alive until in 1904, when I was so ad- vised by my grandmother and my uncle, Alexander Robinson, who lives at Doyle, Okla., and who is a brother of my father, and is an enrolled Choctaw Indian. I attach hereto the original letter of my grandmother, Mrs. E. E. Robinson, dated June 23, 1904, advising me that my father was alive and had five children. I also attach hereto an original letter written me under date of July 14, 1910, by my uncle, Alexander Robinson, of Doyle, Okla., advising me that he was doing all he could to secure my enrollment as a member of the Choctaw Tribe. On January 25, 1900, when I was 16 years of age, I married Robert F. Lister, with whom I am now living at Maryville, Tenn. Ruth D. Listee. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 20th day of July, 1915. [seal.] R- R- Keamek, Notary Public, Blount County, Tenn. State of Oklahoma, County of Stephens, ss. Alexander Robinson, being by me first duly sworn according to law, deposed and said : „ , . , , I have carefully read the affidavit of Ruth D. Lister, nee Robinson, and have a personal knowledge of the facts therein stated, which are true of my own per- sonal knowledge. I am an enrolled Choctaw Indian ; am a brother of William P. Robinson, the father of Ruth D. Lister. Her father, William P. Robinson, is now residing at Anson, Tex. I know that Ruth D. Lister is a member of the Choctaw Tribe and is entitled to enrollment. Alexander Robinson. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 23d day of July, A. D. 1915. [seal.] ^- ^- Morgan, Notary PuWc, Stephens County, Okla. STATEMENT OF P. J. HUBLET, ATTORNEY FOE THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re application for the enrollment of Ruth D. Lister, nee Robinson, as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation. The foregoing petition and affidavit was setved upon me for the enrollment of Ruth D Lister nee Robinson, as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. This petitioner alleges that she is the daughter of William P. Robinson and his wife Emily F Robinson, who were married on June 15, 1882 ; that she was born on June 5 1883, in Pickens County, Chickasaw Nation, but that her father was forced to' leave the Choctaw-Chickasaw country as the result of some trouble in which he became involved during the spring of 1884, and that several years thereafter her mother moved with her to Tennessee, where she was resid- ing on June 28 1898. Petitioner further states that her father returned to the 318 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Indian Trritory in 1904 and was enrolled, together with his six children by his second wife, as citizens by blood of the Ohoctaw Nation in accordance with the act of August 1, 1914. . This applicant states that she is now a resident of MaryviUe, ienn., with her husband, Robert F. Lister. The testimony of this applicant has not been procured in connection with her claim, owing to the great distance of the petitioner's residence from Oklahoma. The records in the office of the Indian Office at Muskogee, Okla., show that on December 17, 1910, the testimony of William F. Robinson, the alleged father of Ruth D. Lister, was taken before Judge Pollock, assistant attorney for the Interior Department, and the following questions were asked : " Q. How old were you when you left, Mr. Robinson? — A. Well, I don't * * * I couldn't tell exactly, I don't believe. It was in '84, and I must have been about 23 years old. It was in 1884. " Q. Were you married at that time? — A. No, sir. " Q. When did you marry? — A. I married about 14 years ago; married in Mexico little over 14 years ago — in Mexico. " Q. Do you wish to present the name of your wife and children? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. What is your wife's name? — ^A. Levonia Robinson." Again, in the same testimony the following questions were asked : " Q. Were you ever married prior to your marriage to your wife, Levonia Robinson? — A. No, sir. " Q. What was her maiden name? — A. McCracken. " Q. Was she ever married prior to her marriage to you? — A. No, sir. " Q. Have you lived together continuously since the date of that marriage up to the present time? — A. Yes, sir." From the testimony above quoted it will be seen that William F. Robinson was only 23 years of age when he moved away from Oklahoma and was not at that time married, and did not marry until 14 years thereafter in Mexico, and that his wife was named Levonia Robinson, nee McCracken. The records in the possession of the Indian Office at Muskogee, Okla., further show that the said William F. Robinson, together with his four children — Alice, Alpha, Ada B., and James William Robinson — were enrolled under the provi- sions of the act of August 1, 1914. These persons were enrolled not because they were legally entitled to enrollment but on the theory that William F.- Robinson was a fugitive from justice and could not return to be enrolled. His minor children were enrolled by reason of the fact that they were of Choctaw blood and not responsible, on account of their minority, for not having secured their enrollment within the required time. If the statements made by Mr. Robinson, under oath, above quoted are true, this petitioner is not his daughter, or if she is his daughter she is an illegiti- mate child. Ruth D. Lister, the petitioner, alleges that she was born in 1882, and, accord- ing to her statement, she became of age in 1900. The rolls of citizenship of the Choctaw Nation were not closed until March 4, 1907, and during the seven years subsequent to her arrival at majority and prior to the closing of 'the rolls she made no application for her enrollment. No application for enrollment was made by the applicant until the foregoing petition was filed by Mr. Ballinger, 15 years after the arrival of the claimant at her majority. The applicant, as stated before, resides in Tennessee, and we did not attempt to take her testimony, for the reason that to do so would incur considerable expense. If the case presented any meritorious features, we might be justified in making further investigation, but even if this applicant could prove she is the illegitimate child of William F. Robinson she would not be entitled to enrollment, for the reason she is a nonresident of the Clioctaw Nation and did not make application for enrollment within the required time. As we have stated in other cases, the Choctaw Nation has never agreed to the enrollment of William F. Robinson and his children. The enrollment of nonresidents of the Choctaw Nation is a violation of all the laws and customs of the Choctaw Nation, as well as the laws of the United States, on enrollment matters. Even if William F. Robinson had been equitabljf entitled to enroll- ment, the case of the applicant, Ruth D. Lister, is not parallel to that of her alleged father and one-half sisters. Admitting that perhaps all of the allega- tions made by the applicant are true, she is not entitled to enrollment. P. J. Htjklet, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. ^^,^i^i, ax-jtkdj'jkiation bill. 319 CASE NO. 2. PETITION OF JAMES GOINGS FOB HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now James Goings and shows that he is 57 years of age and that he lives in Depew, Olvla. That lie is a Choctaw Indian b.v birth, by blood, by descent, and by residence ; that he Is the son of Henry Goings, who was a full-blood Choctaw Indian, and whose mother was Francis Goings, both of whom died when applicant was quite small ; that applicant does not remember his said father, but that he was 10 years old when his mother died. That the said Francis was also a Choctaw Indian of the one-half blood. That applicant was born near old Shawneetown, in the Choctaw Nation, and that he lived there and near Durant, in said nation, until he was grown up ; that he then went to western Oklahoma where he lived for about five years and returned to the Choctaw Nation \^hQre has has smce lived ; that he has since his return lived in Valient and south of there and that he built himself a home on the public domain and held the same unmolested until allotment ; that said home was 5* miles south from Valient. That the reason that he has not been enrolled is : That he had always been recognized as a Choctaw citizen ; that he was permitted to build a home on the public domain and otherwise recognized and did not know that an enrollment by the Dawes Commission was necessary until his home was taken from him ; then he went to the Dawes Commission at Muskogee and they told him the roll was closed. That on the 2d day of September, 1885, he was duly and lawfully married to Lucy Goings, with whom he still lives ; that there was born to this union the following-named children, to wit : Mamie Dyer, age 27 years ; Henry Goings, age 26 years ; Ella Roberts, age 24 years ; Hughs Goings, age 22 years ; Birdie Goings, age 19 years ; James Goings, age 18 years ; Ben Goings, age 17 years : Francis Goings, age 13 years ; Roseve't Goings, age 11 years ; Maggie Goings, born April 3, 1905. Petitioner further shows that he is uneducated ; that he can not read or write, and that he lived in the confidence that his people would all be cared for with their own share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians the same as the other Choctaw Indians were, but that on account of his uneducated condition and without any notice, he has been left oft the roll, and his children, who were all minors, are also without enrollment for no other reason than that they were minors and that he did not know enough to care for their interests. Wherefore he now prays that his name, James Goings, and the names of his said children, Mamie Dyer, Henry Goings, Ella Roberts, Hughs, Birdie, James, Ben, Francis, Rosevelt, and Maggie Goinss, be enrolled on the approved roll of Choctaws by blood, and that to them and each of them be given their dis- tributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians the same as is given to all other members of said tribe. James (his thumb mark) Goings. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: James Goings, being first duly sworn, oh oath states that he is the above- named James Goings ; that he has had the above petition read over to him and knows the contents thereof ; and that the matters and things therein contained are true. James (his thumb mark) Goings. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of S'ebruary, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above petition to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true. [sjg^£,, .TuLius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. The name of James Goings was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him In my presence. Julius Golden, Witness to Mark. The name of James Goings was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden, Witness to Mark. 320 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF MAMIE DYEB, IN STJPPOKT OP THE PETITION OV JAMES GOINGS FOE THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS., Comes now Mamie Dyer and shows that she is 27 years of age and that she lives at Sapulpa, Olila. That she Is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and recognition, as is shown by the isetition of James Goings, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained are true. That on the 24th day of October, 1911, she was duly and lawfully married to John 0. Dyer, with whom she still lives, and that he took her out of the Choctaw Nation to Sapulpa, about one week ago. That she has been a recognized Choctaw ever since she could remember, and that she lived on the public domain \yith her said father, and assisted him in making the home on the public domain where they lived until same was allotted away from her father. That she herself was a minor during all the years of enrollment since she was born ; that the rolls were closed before she reached her majority, and although she was old enough to have been enrolled and allotted, neither her tribe nor her parents nor the United States, that presuming to act as her guardian, looked after her Interests, and she has thus been deprived of her share of the common property of her tribe. That her name appears in the said petition of her said father at her request and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Mamie Dtee. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 16th day of February, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that she was the above-named party and that said petition is true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary PuUic. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF HENRY GAINS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JAMBS GAINS FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Henry Gains and shows that he is 26 years of age and that he lives at Depew, Okla. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, and by residence as is shown by the petition of James Goings, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relation- ship and residence and the relationship and residence of all of the other par- ties named therein, he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said mother and father, he has always been taught were true; that he has also been told that they were true by reliable parties that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that he believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That he has been a recognized Choctaw Indian ever since he could remem- ber; that he helped his said father to clear up their home on the public domain and that they lived on It until allotment came and it was taken from them. That he was a minor during all the years of enrollment, but of sufficient age to have been enrolled and was not taken care of by his said father on account of the reasons stated in his petition; but that he has been deprived of his allotment solely on account of his minority. INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 321 That his name appeal's in the said petition of his father at his request and that lie hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Henry Gains. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of February, 1915 ; I fur- ther certify that I read over the fibove petition to the afliant and that he knew tl« contents thereof and that he states that sfame was true. [SBAI..I Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SXJPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF ELLA KOBERTS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JAMES GOTNGS FOB THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Ella Roberts and shows ; that she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, and by residence, as is shown by the petition of James Goings, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she is 24 years of age, and that she lives now at Boley, Okla. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship of all of the other parties named in said petition, she knows to be true of her own knowledge; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her said father and mother, she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts ; and that she believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That she has been recognized as a Choctaw Indian in the Choctaw Nation ever since she could remember ; that she split rails, made fence together with the other members of her said father's family to make a home for themselves the same as other Choctaws had ; that they lived on the same until allotment and then had to vacate. That she was a minor during all the years for enrollment and that her said father did not look after her interests as stated in his petition, and that she could not ; that she has been deprived by law of an opportunity to even ask for her birthright, and all on account of her minority; that she was of sufficient age to have been enrolled but was not. That 6n the 11th day of January, 1914, she was duly and lawfully married to Nevrton Roberts ; That her name appears in the petition of her said father at her request and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Ella Robekts. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: , Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 10th day of February, 1915; I further certify that I read over the above petition to the' affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden. My commission expires June 2, 1917. supplemental petition of HUGHS GOINGS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JAMES GOINGS FOE THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. ■ Comes now Hughs Goings and shows that he is 22 years of age and that he lives at Castle, Okla. .,,,., ^ r, ;, ^ .au -.a That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, and by residence, as is shown by the petition of James Goings, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part ^ , ^^ . , ,. ^ That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all of the other parties named therein he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said father 31362—16 21 322 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. and mother, he has always been taught were true ; that he has also been informed by reliable persons that were acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and he believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That he has been recognized as a Choctaw Indian ever since he could re- member, and that he helped his father and the other members of the family to clear up the home on the public domain south of Valient, on which they lived until allotment. That he was a minor during all the years of enrollment since he was born and that the roll closed prior to his reaching his majority. That he was of sufflcient age to have been enrolled and receive his allot- ment, and was deprived thereof on account of his minority and the further reasons set out in his said father's petition. That his name appears in his said father's petition at his request, and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Hughs Goings. The name of Hughs Goings was written by me at his request and In his presence, and mark made by him in my presence. Attest : Julius Golden, Witness to Mark. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 10th day of February, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. supplemental petition or BIEDIE goings in support or the petition of JAMES GOINGS FOE THE ENBOLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Birdie Goings and shows that she is 19 years of age and that she lives at Depew, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by residence, and by descent, as is shown by the petition of James Goings, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all of the other parties named therein she knows to be true of her own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her said mother and father, she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That she was born and raised at Valient, Choctaw Nation, and has been a recognized Choctaw Indian ever since she could remember ; that she and the other children helped to clear up their home on the public domain ; that she burned brush after she came home from school and a part' of the night, and that they had a nice home ; that it was taken from them after allotment. That the Choctaw roll was closed before she reached her majority, and that her father, for the reasons stated in his said petition, did not look after her interests, and that she is left ofE the rolls solely because she was a minor and the rolls closed, although she was of age to have been enrolled. That her name appears in the said petition of her father at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. BiEDiE Goings. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 10th day of February, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained to the affiant the above petition and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary PuUic. INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 323 AFFIDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JAMES GOINGS FOB THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age and that his home is near Boggy Depot, Olila. I know the applicant, James Goings ; that I was well and personally ac- quainted with both the father and mother of the applicant, Henry and Frances Goings. The said Henry Goings was a full-blood Choctaw man, and I knew him from tlie time I could remember up until his death — that is, until I heard of his death. The said Henry Goings had three brothers ; George was the oldest one, and that he died before the war ; he run for governor of the Choctaw Nation in the early days. The other two full brothers were James and Alfred Goings. The mother, Frances Goings, was a half-breed Choctaw. The father of Henry Goings — the grandfather of the applicant — was old Isaac Goings, and he was one of the emigrants from Mississippi in 1832. Affiant further states that the first time that he ever met this applicant was more than 30 years ago at Old Doaksville, Ind. T., Towson County. That applicant moved away from there, and so did I, and I did not keep track of him and have not met him again until lately. I am not acquainted with his family. Have seen them. Alec Nail. [His thumb print.] The name of Alec Nail was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him In my presence, Jtjlius Golden. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 23d day of March, 1915. I fur- ther certify that I read over to the affiant the above affidavit, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was correct and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary PuUic. My commission expires June 2, 1917. AFFIDAVIT OF H. L. LEWIS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JAMES GOINGS AND FAMILY. H. L. Lewis, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he Is 28 years of age and that he lives at Muskogee, Okla. ^ ^.v. i. v. That he is well and personally acquainted with the applicant, and that ne knows all the older members of his family. That he first knew him when he was small; that, in fact, he has known him and them ever since he could TPmPTnhPT* Affiant further stated that the applicant had his own home that he and his family made on the public domain. That he saw them making it, and knows that they lived on it until they were driven off during allotment. That he was living in the Choctaw Nation, and that he visited his family when he was growing up, and that is the way that he knows the older ones ; he ''^hat'he^and all hiriamily were Choctaws and so recognized and that they have lived in the Choctaw Nation during all of that time, which is more than 20 years. ^ , ,, j.- I have not seen him for a long time until lately, he.moved to t^i^^'^* ^^^lon. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: ,„,^ ^ Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 19th day of February, 1915 ; I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to affiant and that he knew ffie contents thereof, and that he stated that the matters and things therein contained were true. (Signed) Julius Golden, [SEAL.] Notary PuUic. My commission expires June 2, 1917. 324 INDIAN APPfiOPKIATION BILL. STATEMENT OF P. J. HtJKLEY, AITORNEY FOE THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re application of James Goings for enrollment of himself and family as citi- zens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The foregoing petition was served upon me by Mr. Webster Ballinger, au attorney at law, of Washington, D. C. The applicant, James Goings, claims that he is an Indian by blood — the evidence shows that he is a negro. On the face of his petition the applicant admits that he did not make application for enrollment as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation within the time required by law. The act of July 1, 1902 (32 Stat, L., p. 641), by which the supplemental agreement between the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations and the United States was approved, provides in part as follows : " * * * xhe application of no person whomsoever for enrollment shall be received after the expiration of said ninety days." The 90 days herein referred to is 90 days after the ratification of the agreement by the Choctaw and Chickasaw people. The agreement was ratified on September 25, 1902. If all the allegations contained in die applicant's petition were true he would not now be entitled to enrollment under the law. He is not a bona fide resident of the Choctaw Nation, but resides at this time near Depew, in Creek County, Okla., which is in the Creek Nation. The act of Congress approved June 28, 1898, commonly known as the Atoka agreement between the Choctaw- Chickasaw Nations and the United States (32 Stat. L., p. 495), provides as follows: " No person shall be enrolled who has not heretofore removed to and in good faith settled in the nation in which he claims citizenship." Without considering the legal bars to the enrollment of this applicant, we are in a position to show that he is not equitably, or morally, entitled to citizen- ship in the Choctaw Nation. He is not an Indian ; he has all the appearances and characteristics of a full-blood negro. His testimony, taken in this Case at Tulsa, Oklahoma, on November 19, 1915, Is attached hereto. This testi- money shows that he has always lived with negroes ; that he is married to a negro woman ; that his mother was a negro woman who claimed to have some Indian blood, but when asked concerning his father the witness testified as follows : " Q. Of what blood was your father? — ^A. Full-blood Choctaw. " Q. Were your father and mother married? — A. As far as I know. " Q. Your understanding is that they were not married, isn't that the idea? — A. Claimed to be married as far as I heard them say. Never saw my father." It seems that this negro assumed the name of "Goings " in order to attempt to establish a relationship between himself and a Choctaw family of that name. On this point the witness testified as follows : " Q. Where were you married? — A. Clarkesville, Red River County, Tex. " Q. Did you marry under the name of James Goings? — A. Yes, sir. " You are sure that you were married under the name of James Goings? — A. No, sir ; I went in the name of stepfather when I married her. My step- father's name. " Q. You were married under the name of James Davis? — ^A. Yes, sir. " Q. You were known by James Davis up to that time? — A. '^es, sir. " Q. Married by the name of James Davis ? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. Kno\\'n by that name since you have been married?— -A. No, sir. " Q. When did you change your name to Goings? — A. Ilight after I married." This Negro attempts to show that he was recognized as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation, but when aSked the question : " Your name was never on any tribal roll that you know anything about?" He answered, "No, sir." Again he was asked, "As a matter of fact yOu •were not placed on any tribal roll because you are of negro blood; Is that the reason?" He answered, " Yes, sir." He attempted, however, to further establish the fact that he was recognized as a Choctaw, and said that he had been permitted to vote at one election in the Choctaw Nation. He was asked the question — "Who did you vote for?" — and he answered, " I voted In favor-of the Choctaws." " Q. Was it an election for governor. Or sometTiihg of that kind? — A. Yes, sir ; I think so. I think it was. " Q. Don't you know who you voted for ? — A. I couldn't read, you know." INDIAN APPPOPKIATION BILL. 325 The testimony of James Goings is sufficient to show that the allegations in the petition presented by Mr. Ballinger are false. The applicant is not an Indian — he is a negro; he does not reside in the Choctaw Nation; he never made an application for enrollment as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation until he was approached by the agents of Mr. Ballinger and a petition was solicited from him. The testimony on this point is interesting but it Is not pertinent to the issues in this case. There is another matter, however, that is pertinent. To corroborate the fradulent and false allegations contained in tlie petition sub- mitted by Mr. Ballinger and his associates, this firm of attorneys liave pro- cured the affidavit of Alec Nail, an old negro, who, prior to emancipation, was the slave of Jonathan Nail, a Choctaw Indian. This old negro is used by the firm of Ballinger, Lindley & Rodkey as a professional witness. His affidavit is submitted by this firm of attorneys in corroboration of the allegations con- tained in the petition of James Goings. On November 5, 1915, Nail was called upon to testify in this case. His tes- timony is in full as follows : Dkpabtmekt of the Intekior, Ori'icE of the Superintendent fob the Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Okhi., Norember 5, 1915. In the matter of the application for the ein-ollment of James Goings as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. ALEC NAIL, being first duly sworn by William L. Bowie, deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastei-n Di.strict of Oklahoma, on oath, testifies as follows : Examination by P. J. Huui>p:y : Q. What is your name? — A. Alec Nail. Q. Where do you reside? — A. Muskogee, Okla. Q. Are you an enrolled citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Freedman or citizen by blood? — A. Freedman. Q. Do you know James Goings? — A. No, sir; only since he has been trying to get on the rolls. Q. How long has he been trying to get on the rolls? — A. I don't know, sir. He filed petition before I knew him. Q. Do you know whether James Goings is a Choctaw Indian? — A. He is not an Indian. Q. What is he? — A. Colored man. He looks dark. Q. Do you know his father? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know his mother? — A. No, sir. Q. You don't know whether Henry Goings was his father or not? — A. There was a Henry Goings, but I don't know whether he was his father or not. Q. Do you know whether Francis Goings was his mother? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know whether the mother of James Goings was a half-breed Choctaw? — A. I don't know. Q. You don't know who she was? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you know the grandfather of the applicant, James Goings, was named Isaac Goings and emigrated from Mississippi? — A. If that was his grandfather, he came from Mississippi. My father said he came with them in 1832. I knowed him all right. , „ , , i, Q. You did know the said Isaac Goings, but you don t know whether they were related to each other or not?— A. They don't look alike. Q. What was Isaac Goings's blood?— A. Plum Indian. . , , , Q. And this man, James Goings, is a Straight-out negro?— A. Yes, sir ; he looks Q You stated that you never knew this applicant until you met him in Bal- linger, Lindley & Kodkey's office?— A. First I ever saw of him. .„ , ^ ^ Q. Did you swear that you met him 30 years ago at Old Doaksville?— A. I have not been there since I was a boy 11 years old. , . ,,. . O Then vou didn't meet him at Doaksville 30 years ago?— A. No, sir. o' In this affidavit purported to have been signed by you and sworn to before Julius Golden a notary public, did you make the following statement? (The following is a copy of the affidavit purported to have been made and ^'^■Al^c** N^'T'being 'first duly sworn on oath states that hp is 72 years of age, and that his home is near Boggy Depot, Okla. 326 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. "I know the applicant, James Goings; that I was well and personally ac- quainted with both the father and mother of the applicant, Henry and Frances Goings. " The said Henry Goings was a full-blood Choctaw man, and I knew, him from the time I could remember up until his death — that is, until I heard of his death ; the said Henry Goings had three brothers ; George was the oldest one, and that he died before the war ; he run for governor of the Choctaw Nation in the early days. The other two full brother were James and Alfred Goings. " The mother, Frances Goings, was a half-breed Choctaw. ' " The father of Henry Goings, the grandfather of the applicant, was old Isaac Goings, and he was one of the emigrants from Mississippi in 1832. "Affiant further states that the first time that he ever met this applicant was more than 30 years ago at Old Doaksville, Indian Territory, Towfeon County. " That applicant moved away from there and so did I, and I did not keep track of him and have not met him again until lately. " I am not acquainted with his family. Have seen them. ' "(Signed) Alec Nail (By thumb mark). " State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: " Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 23d day of March, 1915 ; I fur- ther certify that I read over to the affiant the above affidavit and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was correct, and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. " [seal.] (Signed) Julius Golden, " Notary Public. " My commission expires June 2, 1917." A. Not a word of it Is true. Q. You didn't swear to that? — A. Not that way. Q. It was not read to you in the form it now appears? — A. That testimony was made from the rolls. They showed me the roll book and made it out. Q. They didn't find on the roll where you met James Goings at Doaksville 30 years ago ? — A. I left there before 30 years ago. I have not been there since I was 11 years old. Q. You have not been back since then? — ^A. No, sir ; I have not been back. I never heard that before. Q. How much did James Goings pay you? — A. He was to pay me $2.50, and I think he paid me one dollar and six bits. (Witness excused.) Frank L. Doble, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he reported the proceedings in the above-entitled case on November 5, 1915, and that the above and foregoing is a true and correct transcript of his stenographic notes taken thereof. Frank L. Doble. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 13th day of November, 1915. R. P. Haeeison, Clerk. By William L. Bowie, Deputy. This testimony furnishes a fair example of the credence that should be placed in sworn statements submitted by Mr. Ballinger and his associates. There is a litttle conflict between James Goings and Alec Nail as to the amount Goings paid Nail for making the affidavit. Goings, in testifying, swore as follows : " Q. What did Alec Nail charge for making an affidavit for you? — A. $5." Any reasonable man, after having seen the chief applicant and having heard his testimony and the testimony of his witnesses, could not be so misled as to believe that there would be any possibility, even by the most astute fraud, to procure the enrollment of the applicant as a Choctaw Indian by blood. Mr. Ballinger and his associates are reasonable men, and we are led to ask the question why do they submit a petition for the enrollment of a negro as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation on evidence as unsubstantial and as false as that which appears in this case. I believe that we will to some extent find the answer to this question in the testimony of the chief applicant. The office of Ballinger, Lindley & Rodkey, attorneys at law, was in the same building with the office of the superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes at Muskogee. The chief applicant testifies that he was taken to that office by an agent of Ballinger, Lindley & Rodkey and was led to believe that Mr. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 327 Lindley was in the service of the Interior Department. A part of his testimony is as follows : "•9: WK®'"® ^^^ ''°" ^^^^ ^^'- Lindley?— A. Muskogee, Interior Office. .. ^" )y .. office?— A. Up in the Government office. About one story up. Q. On the second floor? — A. North end." Then the witness testified as follows: "Q. What did Mr. Lindley tell you?— A. He told me that I would have to employ an attorney to investigate. "Q. Did he suggest some attorney to you?— A. I asked him who was attor- ney there, and he said there was two or three around there, and about that time in walked Nelson Durant, and I employed Nelson Durant. " Q. What sort of a contract did you make with Nelson Durant?— A. I was to pay him cash in hand. I was to pay him $27. "Q. Did you pay him the money? — A. Yes, sir; $27. " Q. Pay him that day ?— A. No, sir. After I was down there and he told me to bring those five grown children. "Q. Did you pay him anything at all the first time? — A. $7.50. " Q. For what purpose did you pay him this $7.50?— A. He claimed he had to go and look up the books. " Q. You paid him $7..50 to look up the books? — A. Yes, sir. "Q. What books was he to look up?— A. I don't know, sir. He didn't tell me particularly what books. " Q. You gave him $7.50 in cash? — ^A. Yes, sir. ' "Q. First time you were down there? — ^A. Yes, sir. "Q. When was that? — A. Along in February. "Q. Of this year? — ^A. Yes, sir. " Q. Any one witness you paying him that money ? — A. No, sir ; there was nobody in the office but me and him at that time. " Q. Did he give you a receipt for it? — A. Yes, sir; but I haven't it here. " Q. You have the receipt at home? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. He said to come back again with your five children ? — A. Grown chil- dren. " Q. You took them back? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. When did he tell you about bringing more money down? — A. He said all those grown ones would have to pay $5 apiece for entering fees. What he said " Q. You went down there afterwards and took your five grown children with you? — A. Yes, sir. "Q. What's the names of these children? — A. Mamie Dyer "Q. Where does she live? — A. Sapulpa. " Q. What's her husband's name? — ^A. J. D. Dyer. " Q. Do they live in town? — A. No, sir; a mile and half out. "Q. Which direction? — A. West. " Q. Name of the next oldest? — A. Henry. " Q. Where does he live?— A. I don't know, sir, where his home may * * * I haven't seen him since I carried him to Muskogee. "Q. Name the next oldest? — A. Ella Roberts. "Q. Wife of Martin Roberts? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. Live at Boley ? — A. Live out about 1 mile from Boley. Have moved near Castle. Got a letter from her last week. " Q. Did you take Hugh along with you? Does Hugh live at Depew?— A. No, sir. Hugh lives out from Castle. "Q. Did you take Hugh along with you? — ^A. Yes, sir. "Q. Take Birdie? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. Birdie live at Depew?— A. Yes, sir. Lives with me. "Q. Birdie, a boy or girl?— A. A girl. " Q. Did each of these children take money along with them? — A. No, sir. "Q They didn't give any money? — A. I got the money myself. " Q.' Had he told you that you would have to bring some more money?— A. $10 more; $17.50 for me. ,. ,, ^ „,„„ . „ " Q. Did you take him that $10? You gave him that $10?— A. Yes, sir. " Q. How much more? — A. $5 apiece for the children. "q! How much in all?— A. $25. " Q Gave him $25 for the children?— A. Yes, sir. "Q They paid you the money to give to him? — ^A. All but one; that was Birdie She was living with me, and I pay hers. " O 'how much did this make in all that you paid Durant?— A. $10, $17.50, and $25 Let's see, $42.50 in all; would be $42.50, near as I could come to it. 328 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. "Q. Did you get anv receipt for the money?— A. I got a receipt for myself for $17.50. He told me he would send all the receipts of the kids, thpir receipts. " Q. Do you know whether he did this?— A. No, sir; I don't. "Q. Did you have any understanding as to whether Mr. Lmdley or this man Durant were in the Government service?— A. I understood that Mr. Lind- ley was in the Government service. . „ a tt " Q. Who told you that Mr. Lindley was in the Government service?— A. He told me himself. He was working for the Government, and he was not allowed to charge any fees. If Government knew he charged any fees he would be hoisted from the office. " Q. He told you that himself ?— A. Yes, sir. "Q. Anyone else present when he told you? — A. Yes, sir; I think, if I make no mistake, there was an old man. Nails. "Q. Alex Nails? — A. Yes, sir; if I make no mistake, think he was in there at the time. " Q. What did Durant tell you? He tell you he was in Government service?— A. He said he was attorney looking up the cases, like for myself. " Q. What did he tell you about Lindley ? — A. He said he would look up my case, and if it was agreement with Mr. Lindley * * *. Whatever Mr. Lindley said when he looked it up * * *. When he looked it up he would turn it over to Mr. Lindley. " Q. Do you know whether Mr. Webster Balllnger, of Washington, D. 0., was connected with that office? — A. I heard he was after I went in. " Q. Did you sign any contract agreeing to pay anyone any more money? — A. Not at that time I didn't. " Q. Did you sign any contract at any other time? — A. Yes, sir ; a contract several years ago with Mr. Ballinger. " Q. Several years ago? — ^A. About 8 or 9 years ago. "Q. Not this year? — ^A. Not as I know of. " Q. Did you sign a power of attorney to Ballinger, Lindley, or Durant?— A. Well, Mr. Lindley told me that Mr. Ballinget was attorney. " Q. Did you sign any power of attorney?— A. Well, I don't know, sir. I tell you just like it is. I couldn't read, and I couldn't tell you what I signed. Only touched that paper there with my hand." Does this testimony not indicate that these attorneys are not taking these petitions with the hope of having these negroes enrolled as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation? On the contrary, would this testimony not indicate that the purpose of these transactions is to secure from these ignorant and gullible negroes whatever funds they may have on hand? It is unfair to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations to cause them to hire attorneys and to incur the expense of Investigating petitions procured by Mr. Ballinger and his associates, as every petition submitted by them Indicates that the propaganda carried on by these attorneys is not for the purpose of securing the enrollment of these applicants, but for the purpose of securing funds from them. The cases of applicants are taken regardless of merit if they have funds to give to these attorneys. The question of the impersonation of a United States officer and of obtaining money under false pretenses are questions that are not pertinent to the issues in this argument. It might be well, however, to call the attention of the committee to that por- tion of the act of August I, 1914 (38 Stat. L., 582), which is as follows: " Unless the consent of the United States shall have been previously given, all contracts made with any person or persons now or hereafter applicants for enrollment as citizens in the Five Civilized Tribes for compensation for services in relation thereto, are hereby declared to be void and of no effect, and the collection or receipt of any moneys from any such applicants for citizenship shall constitute an offense against the laws of the United States, punishable by a fine of not exceeding $500 or imprisonment for not exceeding six months, or both, and lands allotted to such applicants, whether Indians or freedmen, shall not be affected or encumbered by any deed, debt, or obligation of any character contracted prior to the time at which said land may be alienated under the laws of the United States." Without considering the questions of receiving money under false pretense and impersonating officers of the United States, it seems that Mr. Ballinger and his associates have unquestionably violated the foregoing law. P. F. HUELET, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 329 Depaktment of the Interiok, OiTiCE OF Superintendent, Five Civilized 'Teibes, Tusla, Olda., November 19, 1915. In the matter of the application for enrollment of James Goings for himself and family as Choctaw Indians by blood. JAMES GOINGS, being first duly sworn by William L. Bowie, United States deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, on oath testified as follows: Examination by Mr. William L. Bowie : Q. Please state your name? — ^A. James Goings. Q. Your age?— A. Fifty-nine. I was 58 when I gave that in. Q. Do you know in what year you were born? — A. I can't keep up with the years, but I know tliat the time I was born, up to what my mother said, was about six years before surrender. Q. About six years before surrender? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Where do you live? — ^A. Depew. Q. Near Depew, Okla.?— A. Yes, sir; three miles and a half. Q. Which direction? — ^A. Southwest. Q. Depew is in the Creek Nation, is it not? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is your occupation? — A. Farming. Q. Married? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the name of your wife? — -A. Lucy. Q. What was her name before she married ? — A. Lucy. Do you mean sur- name? Q. Yes. — A. Mackey. Q. Was she married before she married you? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Father's name was Mackey? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Colored woman? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. What color? — A. Dark complexion. Q. Darker than yourself? — ^A. Yes, sir; good deal. Q. How much negro blood do you claim to have? — A. One-fourth. Q. Which side did you get that negro blood — from father or mother, or both?: — ^A. Mother's side. Q. What degree of negro blood did your mother have? — A. Called one-half. Q. What was the other half? — A. Indian. Q. What kind of Indian blood? — A. Choctaw. Q. Of what blood was your father? — A. Full-blood Choctaw. Q. Were your father and mother married? — A. As far as I know. Q. Your undersanding is that they were not married; isn't that the idea? — A. Claimed to be married as far as I heard. Never saw my father. Q. As a matter of fact, full-blood Choctaws did not marry colored persons. Was not permitted at all. — A. They did. If they wanted them for a wife. Q. Did you ever know a full-blood Choctaw to marry a colored person? — ^A. Yes, sir. One lives near me now at Depew. Full-blood Indian woman married to full-blood negro. Q. Choctaws? — A. Said she was a Choctaw. Q. Isn' she a Creek? — ^A. Told me Choctaw. Full-blood Choctaw. Q. Who was your father? — ^A. Henry Goings. .Q. Is he dead? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. When did he die? — A. I couldn't tell. Died when I was quite small. Never saw him. Q. How do you know whether Henry Goings was your father? — A. My mother. From my mother. Q. Simply representation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your mother told you?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Your father and mother lived together? — ^A. So she said. Q. How old were you when your father died? — ^A. She said about 3 years old. Q. 'Vyhere did your father die?-r-A. He died in the Choctav? Nation. Near Shawneetown. Q. How far?— A. Don't know, sir. Q. In what direction? — A.. All I know old Shawneetown was about 3 J miles Q. How far from Shawneetown did your father die? — A. I couldn't say exactly. 330 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Q. Do you know where he was born?— A. No, sir; but I know he died in Shawneetown. Q. Did your father have any brothers? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know the name of the brother? — A. Alfred Goings. Q. Have any other brothers? — ^A. Some other brothers. I heard my uncle Alfred call their names. Q. How many? — A. Two. Q. Three altogether? — A. Yes, sir; I know there was three. Q. You don't know the names of either of the brothers other than Alfred?— A. No, sir. Q. Did he have any sisters?— A. Well, yes, sir; he had some sisters; but I don't know the names. Q. You don't know the names of any sister? — ^A. No, sir. Q. How many did he have? — ^A. Don't know, sir. Q. You never knew any of his sisters? — A. No, sir. Q. Any of his brothers? — ^A. Just Alfred and grandfather. Q. Your father's father? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. What was his name? — ^A. Isaac Goings. Q. Where did he live? — A. Near Shawneetovm. Q. What blood was your grandfather? — A. Full blood. Q. What became of Alfred Goings? — A. They sent him to the penitentiary. Q. For what? — A. Married twice without license. Q. When was that? — A. Been something between eight or nine years ago. Q. Where was he sent to the penitentiary from? — ^A. I think it was Idabel. Q. What penitentiary was he sent to? — ^A. I don't know. Just know he was sent to the penitentiary. Q. Before Statehood?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Sent up for bigamy, you say? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know these wives ; do you know either of these women he mar- ried? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know the names of either of them?— A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about your grandmother on your father's side? — A. No, sir. Q. Was your father married more than once? — ^A. I don't know, sir. Q. Do you know whether your father had any children besides yourself? — A. Never heard of any. If he had I might have heard. Never any claim kin to me. Q. Did you have any brother of full blood? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Any sister of full blood? — A. No, sir. Q. Have any sister of half blood? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Have any brother of the half blood? — ^A. Yes, sir. On my mother's side. Q. Not on your father's side? — A. No, sir. Q. How many half brothers on your mother's side? — A. Only one. Q. What is his name? — ^A. His name is Lewis. Q. What was his other name? — ^A. Lewis Davis. Q. Where does Lewis Davis live? — A. In Marshall, Tex. Q. In the town? — A. About 1 mile from town. Q. How old Is Lewis? — A. About 32. Q. Considerably younger than you are? — ^A. I am the oldest. Q. Oldest one of your mother's children? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Don't know how old she was when you were born? — A. I never heard her say. Q. Did you say you had a sister of the half blood? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your mother's child? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. How many ? — ^A. One. Q. State the name of this sister? — A. Patsy. Q. Is Patsy dead? — A. No, sir ; she Is living. Q. What is her present name? — A. She married, but I don't know who she married. Her first name was Patsy Davis, same as brother Lewis. Q. How long has she been married? — ^A. About 8 or 10 years. I haven't had a letter for 8 or 10 years. Q. Where does she live? — ^A. Marshall, Tex. Q. Was this half sister and half brother enrolled? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Did either one apply for enrollment?— A. Not that I know of. Not to my knowledge. Q. Was your mother a slave? — A. Not as I know of. INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOSr BILL. 331 sla*ie^ShP U^!/T^u'^''^^''^^^'i9''i ''''°"* "'-^- I never heard of her being a rT -1X7 l^^^ ^'*^ ™y grandfather, Isaac Goings, with him. O iTn't ^^l,\T''^ of Isaac Goings?-A. She might have been; I don't know, couldn't say u i>"d«standing, that she was a slave of Isaac 6oing?-A. I Q. Was she ever enrolled?— A. Not as I know of Q. Was she ever enrolled as a freedman?— A. No, sir Q. Do you know anything about your mother's father?— A No sir Q. Your mother's mother? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was her name? — ^A. Patsy.' Q. Her surname?— A. No, sir ; knew her by my mother Q. Did you ever see this grandmother?— A. No, sir Never^s^aw hfr^ ''°'' ^^""^ bom?— A. Yes, sir ; must have died before I was born. Q. Your mother have any sisters?- A. Not that I know of Q. Any brothers?— A. No, sir ; not that I know of. Q. Where were you born?— A. I was born, so my mother said, about IJ miles &om old Shawneetown. Q. Which direction?— A. Between old Shawneetown and Horseshoe Lake. I suppose that would be about southwest. Q. Born on the Goings place? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Isaac Goings's place? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is your mother living? — ^A. No, sir. Q. How long has she been dead?— A. Been dead for 35 or 40 years. Q. How old were you when she died?— A. I was a man grown. I guess I was about 20, maybe more. Q. You were about 20, maybe more?— A. I was at that time. Q. Is your mother's name on any tribal roll that you know anything about' — A. No, sir. Q. Is your father's name on any tribal roll that you know anything about' — A. I couldn't say. Q. You lived with your mother until she died? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. How long did she stay on the Isaac Goings's place after you were born?— A. She said she stayed there about three years. I was about 3 years old. Q. Where did she go?— A. She went to a little town they called in Choctaw Nation above Hugo. I can't call the name of that place. She stayed there several years. Q. Above Hugo? — ^A. Yes, sir. It wasn't Hugo at that time. I forgot the name. Q. How long did she live there? — A. Several years, she said. Q. That was in the Choctaw Nation? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Whose place did she live on? — ^A. I don't know, sir. Q. Where did she go from there? — A. She went from there to just about 20 miles from Choctaw Nation — there In Texas. Let me see. * * * ghe lived there. * * * Q. How long did she live there? — ^A. She lived there, she told me, five or six years. Q. Were you with her ? — ^A. No, sir ; not at that time. Q. Where were you? — A. In the Choctaw Nation. Q. Where? — A. Above Antlers. Q. You said you lived with your mother up until she died? — A. I was there when she died. Didn't stay with her continuously. Q. Were you ever with your mother any more than this time you speak of? — A. No, sir. Q. How old were you when your mother went to Texas? — ^A. Sixteen. • Q. You didn't go to Texas? — A. No, sir. Q. You say you went up above Antlers? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Who with? — A. First one and then another. Q. How long did you stay around Antlers? — A. Two or three years. .Q. Where did you go then? — A. I went to this town above * * *. There was no town there then * * *. It was called * * *. i can't get that place * * *. It was out from a little town where they didn't allow negroes. Q. Durant? — ^A. Out from Durant about 3 miles. I lived there for two years. On a ranch. * * * Q. Whose ranch was that? — ^A. Choctaw ranch. Q. Who controlled it? — A. A man by the name of Tom Edwards. Q. How long did you stay there?— A. Two years. 832 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BJ^-L. Q. Then where did you go? — ^A. To Ardmore. Q. How long at Ardmore?— A. Three years. Q. Eight in the town?— 4.. No, sir; out in the country. Q. Woi-k around there? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Doing day's work? — ^A. Labor. Q. Farm hand? — ^A. Tes, sir. Riding horses, riding §tock. Q. Where did you go next? — A. Then I went back to Texas and married. Q. How long had you been in Texas when you were married? — A. First year I went there. Q. Who did you marry down there? — ^A. Lucy. Q. Your present wife? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. She is still living? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Lucy ; what is her other name? — ^A. Lucy Mackey. Q. Where were you married? — A. Clarkesville, Red River County, Tex. Q. Did you marry under the name of James Goings? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You are sure that you married under the name of James Goings? — A. No, sir. I went in the name of stepfather when I married her. My stepfather's name. Q. You were married under the name of James Davis? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. You were known by James Davis up to that time? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Married by name of James Davis? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Known by that name since you have been married? — A. No, sir. Q. When did you change your name to Goings? — ^A. Right after I married. Q. When did you come to be known as Goings? — A. Right after I married. Q. Let it be known that your right name was Goings? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You have been going by that name since? — A. Yes, sir. Q. That is the name you are known by around Depew?— A. Yes, sir. Q. You have several children?— A. Ten. Q. Any dead? — ^A. One. Q. Ten living and one dead? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was Mamie Dyer born?— A. Born in town of Clarkesville. Q. Do you know what date she was born? — A. About 27, her age. Q. Where was Roosevelt born? How old is he? — A. He js about 12 yeaps old. Q. You can prove the date of his birth?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was he born? — A. About 2 miles from Valliant, Okla. Q. Valliant, in the Choctaw Nation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was James Goings born? — A. He was born in the Choctaw Nation. Q. Where? — ^A. Down near the same place. Q. Down near Valliant? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have an attending physician? Have a doctor? — A. No, sir. Granny woman. Q. What was the name of the granny wojnan? — A. Sarah. Q. Where was Ella Roberts born? — A. She was born at ClarkesviUe. Q. Where was Birdie born? — ^A. In the Choctaw Nation. Q. Where was Ben born? — ^A. In Choctaw Nation. Q. Birdie was born at Clarkesville? — A. No, sir; Ella. Q. Where was Hugh born? — A. In Choctaw Nation. Q. Where? — ^A. Down near same place. Q. Near Valliant? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was Henry born? — ^A. In Clarkesville. Q. Mamie, Henry, and Ella born in Clarkesville? — ^A. Yes, sir. Rest born In Choctaw Nation. Q. You give the ages of these children in the application you have filed by Webster Ballinger as Mamie Dyer 27, Henry Goings 26, Ella Roberts 24, Hugh Goings 22, Birdie Goings 19, James Goings 18, Ben Goings 17, Francis Goings 13, Roosevelt Goings 11, Maggie born April 3, 1905. You say that tlje first three of these were born in Clarkesville, Tex.? — ^A. Yes, sir.' ' ' Q. And you say Hugh, Birdie, James, Ben, and Francis were born out south of Valliant? — ^A. Yes, sir. - . Q. All born on same place?— A. No, sir ; we lived on one pla,ce two years. Moved in the same neighborhood. ' Q. Where was Roosevglt born?— A. Born two miles of Valliant. I lived 2 miles of Valliant when last two children were born, Roosevelt arid Maggje. Q. Rest of them born, those five, south of Valliant? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Pretty close to river? — A. Tes, sir. Q. Red River?— A. Yes, sir.^ INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 333 Q. This child that is dead, where did that one come in? — A. Between Hugh and Birdie. Q. Where was it born? — ^A. Born down there, too. Q. South of Valiant?— A. Yes, sir. Q. In Choctaw Nation, this side of Red River? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The ages of these children, were they taken from any record? — A. Not that I know of. Q. Were these ages given in from any memorandum, any record or memo- randum? — A. If any were taken * * * Just one. I had a doctor for her. Q. I asked if you took the ages of tliese children from any Bible or record ?^ A. No, sir. Q. How did you arrive at the age of these children? — A. Kept them in my memory. I ain't got no book. * * * i ain't got no education. * * * wjiat I go by I keep in my head. Q. Your name was never on any tribal roll that you know anything about? — A. No, sir. Q. Why not? Why was it omitted? — A. Because I neglected it. Didn't pay any mind to it. * * * Didn't think there was anything * * * Q. As a matter of fact you were not placed on any tribal roll because you are of negro blood, is that the reason?— A. Yes, sir. Q: You were not recognized as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — A. I always been recognized by Indians by bloo'd. * * * Q. You never voted? You never voted on tribal matters? — A. I voted once before statehood. , Q. Once where ?^ — A. Valiant. Q. Why was it you were not permitted to vote at other times? — A. Didn't try. Didn't care anything about it. Didn't go to the polls. Q. Could you have voted if your name was not on some of the tribal rolls? — A. I don't know, sir. I was allowed to vote then. I never did try to vote again. Q. What kind of an election? — ^A. Some office election of the Choctaws. Q. Who did you vote for ? — A. I voted in favor of the Choctaws. Q. Was it an election for governor or something of that kind? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. I think it was. Q. Don't you know who you voted for? — A. I couldn't read, you know. Q. How long did you live in Texas at Clarkesville?— A. Four years. Q. Then when you left there where did you go? — A. Choctaw Nation. Q. South of Valiant? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long did you live there? — A. Ten or eleven years. Q. Where did you live when you left there? — A. Moved about 1 mile of Valiant, maybe about a mile and a quarter. Q. How long did you live there?— A. Six years. Q. Where did you go when you left there?— A. When I left there I come over into Creek Nation. ^,. ^ t^ ,. 4.0 Q. What name were you known by when you were down south of Valiant.' Goings? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. All the time?— A. Yes, sir. Q. All know you by James Goings?— A. Yes, sir. ^ ^ ^ ,,, .. Q. Didn't know you by the name of James Davis .'—A. They knew I had that Q. Suppose I went down there and inquired for James Goings, would the people know you by that name?— A. Yes, sir. u 4.^ 4. ■. O Suppose I inquired for James Davis, would they know you by that name?— A. They would know by my stepfather. They knew I always said that was not O Did vou at any time have to take out intruder's permit to live in the Choctaw Nation? Did you have to secure a permit as an intruder in the Choctaw Nation?— A. No, sir. ,.. , » tm^ ,,., Q. Never obtained a permit at any time?— A No, sir. O Did vou pay any license to the Choctaw Nation?— A. No, sir. q! Your occupation has always been that of a farmer and stockman?— A. ^Q'.^Dld your mother ever have any husband other than this man Davis?— A. No sir ; not as I know of. . , t> ■ ., » t^t • Q Hkve you any idea when she married Davis?— A. No, sir. n Was it before you were born?— A. No, sir ; I know she didn't marry him before I was born. I was three years old when she married. Q What was his given name?— A. Ben Davis. 334 INDIAN" APPEOPKIATION BILL. Q. Ben Davis a colored man? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Was he a freedman? — A. I don't know what he was. Q. Don't know whether he was a Choctaw freedman? — A. No. Q. Wasn't a citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — ^A. I don't know. Q. Where did he live? — A. In Marshall. Q. When did your mother marry him? Before she left the Choctaw Nation?— A. No, sir; she said she married at this little town I was trying to tell you about. * * * Q. Married in the Choctaw Nation? — A. No, sir ; in Texas. Q. Then she lived in Texas until she died?— A. Not then. She lived down there at that little place. * * * Between Hugo there, a place called * * *. Q. In Texas or in the Choctaw Nation? — A. In the Choctaw Nation. Lived there seven years. Q. After she married Davis? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did he die? — A. At Marshall, Tex. Q. Do you know when he died ? — A. No, sir ; not exactly. When I knowed he was dead it had been about six years. Q. How long ago was it that he died, do you suppose? — ^A. He has been dead about 16 or 17 years. Q. Did he live in the town of Marshall ? — A. No, sir. Q. How far from there? — ^A. About a mile and a quarter. Q. Did he marry again after your mother died? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Know the name of the woman? — A. No, sir. Q. Did he have any children by this other woman? — A. Not that I know of. Q. Do you know, as a matter of fact, that he did or did not have any chil- dren? — A. Not as I heard anyone say. Q. You don't know? — A. No, sir. Q. You have made out papers looking to your enrollment as a Choctaw by blood? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Who made out these papers for you? — A. Mr. Lindley. Q. Lindley? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you see Mr. Lindley? — A. Muskogee, Interior office. Q. What office? — A. Up in the Government office. About one story up. Q. On the second floor? — ^A. North end. Q. Building used by the Government offices? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Who told you to go down there? Who told you about Lindley? — ^A. I was taken papers, and my wife read in the papers where this office was going to be open January 1, so I got myself ready and went down there. Q. Had you talked with anyone about going before you went down there? — ^A. About enrolling? Q. Yes. — A. Yes, sir. Q. To whom had you talked? — A. A man where I live. I live on his place now. Q. What is his name? — A. Charles Edwards. Q. That all the name he has? — A. As far as I know. Q. What did Edwards tell you? — A. He said he thought I could get on if I come * * * if I could get * * * if I could tell the right evidence. Q. Was he working for these people ? — A. I am working on his place. Q. Was he working for these people? — A. Mr. Lindley? No, sir. Q. You on Edwards place yet? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Who is this Charles Gould? — A. I don't know, sir. He told me ■" * * he tells me his name is Charles Edwards. If his name is Gould, he has put it on since he is Choctaw by blood. Q. He made an application under the name of Edwards? — A. Yes, sir. Q. That the reason why you said his name was Edwards? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Everyone knows him by the name of Charles Gould? — ^A. I don't know. Q. Never heard his name of Edwards until after this application was made out? — A. He always told me Edwards. Q. Is he a white man? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Looks like white man to you? — A. He might be Indian; don't know whether he is part white man or not. Q. How old?— A. 40 or 4.5. Q. Is he a tall man? — A. Just about my height. Q. How tall are you? — ^A. 5-11. Q. What is his complexion? — ^A. Just about a shade darker than you; and kind of freckle face. Q. Wear a mustache?— A. Yes, sir. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 335 Q. Wear beard? — A. Sometimes; shave clean sometimes. Q. How IS he now?— A. Shaved clean. Q. Black hair?— A. Yes, sir. ^" ^;^^ ?Z^^^ ^^^ working for the,«e people?— A. Not as I know of ^■•> A A.T '^ 9^^^^ represent to you? Did he represent that the rolls were °^f^ \:^t\^-\^'^ ' ^^ '^''^"'* represent to me that they were opened. Q. What did he tell you about it?— A. He told me after I was telling him about a * * *. He was reading in his papers and he said, " Jim, this roll IS going to be open." Seems * * * since you said * * * i have been readmg where these rolls are going to Q. You stay * * *. You went to Muskogee?— A. Yes sir Q. Who did you see? — A. Mr. Lindley. Q. See anyone else?— A. No, sir; there was a gentleman in the office, but I can't place him. Q. What did Mr. Lindley tell you?— A. He told me that I would have to employ an attorney to investigate. Q. Did he suggest some attorney to you?— A. I asked him who was attorney there, and he said there was two or three around there, and about that time in walked Nelson Durant, and I employed Nelson Durant. Q. What sort of a contract did you make with Nelson Durant?— A. I was to pay him cash in hand. I was to pay him $27. He said he would look up the book. He would charge $27. Q. Did you pay him the money? — ^A. Yes, sir ; $27. Q. Pay him tliat day?— A. No, sir. After I was down there and he told me to bring those five grown children. Q. Did you pay him anything at all the first time?— A. $7.50. Q. For what purpose did you pay him this $7.50?— A. He claimed he had to go and look up the books. Q. You paid him $7.50 to look up the books?— A. Yes, sir. Q. What books was he to look up?— A. I don't know, sir. He didn't tell me particularly what books. Q. You gave him $7.50 in cash? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. First time you were down there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When was that? — ^A. Along In February. Q. Of this year? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Anyone witness you paying him that money? — A. No, sir; there was no- body in the office but me and him at that time. Q. Did he give you a receipt for it? — A. Yes, sir ; but I haven't it here. Q. You have the receipt at home? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. He said to come back again with your five children? — ^A. Grown children. Q. You took them back? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When did he tell you about bringing more money down? — ^A. He said all those grown ones would have to pay $5 apiece for entering fees. What he said * * *. Q. You went down there afterwards and took your five grown children with you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What's the names of these children? — ^A. Mamie Dyer. * * * Q. Where does she live? — ^A. Sapulpaa. Q. What's her husband's name? — A. J. D. Dyer. Q. Do they live in town ? — A. No, sir ; a mile and a half out. Q. What direction?— A. West. Q. Name of the next oldest? — A. Henry. Q. Where does he live? — ^A. I don't know, sir, where his home may * * *. I haven't seen him since I carried him to Muskogee. Q. Name the next oldest. — A. Ella Roberts. Q. Wife of Martin Roberts? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Live at Boley? — ^A. Live out about 1 mile from Boley. Have moved near Castle. Got a letter from her last week. Q. Did you take Hugh along with you? Does Hugh live at Depew?— A. No, sir. Hugh lives out from Castle. Q. Did you take Hugh along with you?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Take Birdie?— A. Yes, sir. Q Birdie live at Depew?— A. Yes, sir; lives with me. Q. Birdie; a boy or girl?— A. A girl. Q Did each of these children take money along with them? — A. No, sir. Q They didn't give any money? — A. I got the money myself. 3SG INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. Q. Had he toUl you that you would have to bring some more money?— A. $10 more; $17.50 for me. Q. Did you take him that $10? You gave him that $10?— A. Yes, sir. Q. How much more? — A. $5 apiece for the children. Q. How much in all?— A. $25. Q. Gave him $25 for the children? — A. Yes, sir. Q. They paid you the money to give to htm? — A. All J)ut one. That was Birdie. She was living with ine and I pay hers. Q. How much did this make In all that you paid Durant? — A. $10,' $17.50, and $25. Let's see — $42.50 in all. Would be $42.50 near as I come to it. Q. Did you get any receipt for the money? — A. I got a receipt for mys6lf for $17.50. He told me he would send all the receipts of the kids — their receipts. Q. Do you know whether he did this? — A. No, sir; I don't. Q. Did ybu have any understanding as to whether Mr. Lindley or this man Durant were in the Government service? — A. I understood that Mr. Lindley was in the Government service. Q. Who told you that Mr. Lindley was In the Government service? — ^A. He told me himself. He was working for the Government, and he was not allowed to charge any fees. If Government knew he charged any fees, he would be hoisted from the office. Q. He told you that himself? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Anyone else present when he told you? — A. Yes, sir; I think, if I make no mistake, there was an old man. Nails. Q. Alex. Nails? — ^A. Yes, sir; if I make no mistake, think he was in there at the time. Q. What did Durant tell you? He tell you he was in Government service? — A. He said he was attorney looking up the cases like for myself. Q. What did he tell you about Lindley? — A. He said he would look up iny case, and if it was agreement with Mr. Lindley. * * * Whatever Mr. Lind- ley said when he looked it up. * * * When he looked it up he would turn it over to Mr. Lindley. Q. Do you know whether Mr. Webster Ballinger, of Wa.shingtori, D. C, was connected with that office? — A. I heard he was after I went in. Q. Did you sign any contract agreeing to pay anyone any more money? — ^A. Not at that time I didn't. Q. Did you sign any contract at any other time?— A. Yes, sir; a contract; several years ago, with Mr. Ballinger. Q. Several years ago? — ^A. About eight or nine years ago. Q. Not this year? — A. Not as I know of. Q. Did you sign a power of attorney to Ballinger, Lindley, or Durant? — ^A. Well, Mr. Lindley told me that Mr. Ballinger was attorney. Q. Did you sign any power of attorney?— A. Well, I don't know, sir. I tell you just like it is. I couldn't read and I couldn't tell you what I Signed. Only touched that paper there with my hand. Q. Henry Goings, Mamie Goings, Ella Roberts, and Hugh Goings and Birdie Goings all signed affidavits? — ^A. Yes, sir; they signed. Q. On the day that you were in Muskogee upon the occasion of your secohd visit? — ^A. Yes, sir. There, as stated by you. Q. Alex. Nails also signed an affidavit? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Anyone else sign an affidavit for you? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. There was an Indian signed an affidavit for you — Hennyha? — A. Yes, sir; Mr. Hennyha. Q. He was too young to know anything about your parents? — A. Y§s, sir; too young. Q. His name is also Lewis? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The same H. L. Lewis signed an affidavit for you? — ^A. YeS, sir. Q. He was 28 years of age?— A. Yes, sir. Q. He wasn't old enough to recognize any of your ancestors ?^A. Not of mine, but he did of my children. Q. As a matter of fact, you ha.d never seen Alex. Nail before that visit? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where? — ^A. Fort Towson, Antlers. Q. When did you meet him? — A. Several years ago. Thirty years ago. Never since I come up here. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 337 Q. Never until you came up here? You didn't Ijnow him in old Shawnee- town? — A. Yes, sir. I knew him after I come up to Muslcogee. Mr. Lindley said you will have to get a man who knows your family. Q. What did Alex. Nail charge for making an affidavit for you?— A. $5. Q. You paid that independent of the other money you paid to Durant?— A. Yes, sir. Q. You gave $5 to Alex. Nail ?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Hand it to Alex. Nail?— A. Yes, sir. Q. Any of your children pay him anything besides? — A. No, sir. Q. You never paid Lindley any money? — A. No, sir. Q. He knew that you paid Durant this money?— A. Not that I know of. Q. Did you pay this man Lewis any money? — A. Gave him a dollar. I don't know what * *_ * x didn't know what I had to do; they asked for it. Q. Has this ma"n Gould been in the employ of these people since? — ^A. I don't know. Q. What is your understanding? — A. I don't know. He has been going from home. Q. Did he tell you he was working for them? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you — did Gould tell you that these persons were in the Government service? — A. He told me that Mr. Lindley was. Q. Has he been sending any applicants up to Muskogee from around Depew and Bristow? — ^A. He sent three applications by me. He paid the money for three— $3. Q. Who were they? — ^A. Henry Phillips. Two more were there; I can't hardly place the names. Henry Phillips the name of one. I knows him well. Q. Where does he live — A. At Depew. Q. In town? — A. Yes, sir. He was applicant as freedman. Q. What nation?— A. Choctaw. Q. You went to Muskogee with him? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he pay Lindley anything? — A. I don't know, sir. Q. Did he tell you he paid anything? — A. No, sir. Q. Did he pay Durant anything? — A. No, sir; Durant wasn't there. Q. Who was acting in Durant's stead? — A. Billy Vann. Q. Did he pay Billy Vann anything? — ^A. I don't know, sir. Q. Vann is a big negro? — A. Yes, sir. Q. With a reel foot? — A. Light-colored negro. Q. You don't know whether Phillips paid Vann anything or not? — A. No, sir. Q. Did he tell you that he paid anything? — A. No, sir. Q. Did he tell you anything about the nature of the work they were doing down there? — A. Billy? Q. Yes. — A. No, sir. Q. Did he say whether he was in the Government service himself? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about the work that Vann has been doing around here? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You say you don't remember the names of these other persons who went to Muskogee? — ^No, sir. Q. They live at Depew? — A. Tes, sir. Yes; I do remember one. It was Hickman ; something like that. Q. Indian, white, or negro? — A. Claimed Indian. Q. Colored blood, too? — A. Looked like he had negro blood. Q. Know any other name? — A. Hickman all I know. Q. Did he pay any money? — ^A. I don't know, sir. Q. Live in town of Depew? — ^A. Northwest of Depew, a mile and a quarter. (Witness excused.) State of Oklahoma, county of Tulsa, ss: Mildred W. Kelsey, being first duly sworn, states that as stenographer to the national attorney for the Choctaw Nation she reported the proceedings in the above-entitled case on the 19th day of November, 1915, and that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of her stenographic notes thereof. MiLDKED W. Kelsey. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 7th day of December, 1915. [seal]. Faeeae Smith, Notary PuMic. My commission expires September 9, 1918. 31362—16 22 338 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. ENROLLMENT CASE WO. 3. Petition of Jackson Bareett and Otheks for Enrollment as Citizens by Blood of the Choctaw Nation, Presented by Webster Ballinger, an Attorney at Law. reply and argument of p. j. hurley, attorney for the choctaw nation. petition of jackson bahrett fob the enrollment of himself and family as choctaw indians by blood. Comes now Jackson Barrett and shows that he is 51 years of age and that he lives at Haskell, Okla. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by residence, and by recogni- tion ; that his father was Toliver Barrett, a noncitizen, and that his mother was Frances Barrett, a half-blood Choctaw Indian. That he was born and raised in the Choctaw Nation, near Boswell, and while he was still a minor was taken to the State of Texas, where he stayed about three years or a little longer ; was married and came back to the Choctaw Nation ; that at another time he went to Texas and stayed for about one year, but for the last past 22 years he has not been o'ut of the Choctaw and Chicka- saw Nation until 3 months ago he moved to Haskell, Okla. That 11th day of February, 1886, he was duly and lawfully married to Martha Barrett, with whom he still lives; that there was born to this union the following-named children, to wit : Clyde Boyd, nge Hill, age 29 years; Joella Acrey, age 26 years; Henry Bar- rett, age 2.T years ; Arlington Barrett, age 23 years ; Walter Barrett, age 22 years ; Francis Grayson, age 20 years ; Donald Barrett, age 17 years ; Idee Bar- rett, age 15 years ; Bulah Barrett, age 13 years ; Justice Barrett, age 11 years ; child of Clyde Boyd, n6e Hill, grandchild of applicant ; Claud Hill, born Novem- ber 4, 1903. That all. of the above-named children except the three older ones were born in the Choctaw Nation and have always lived in the Choctaw Nation ; that these not born in the Choctaw Nation were brought to it in infancy and until three months ago have always made it their homes. That the reason that their names are not on the approved roll as Choctaw Indians is that they employed counsel and paid him and he neglected to file any application for them, but always represented that the case would come up in due course of time, as is shown by the letters hereto attached ; that this continued until the roll closed and they could not make application because they were not full bloods. That his said mother died prior to final enrollment, but that her uncle, Clayton Hunter, is a duly enrolled Choctaw Indian No. 9374 (Len Paisley). Petitioner further shows that he and his family have always been recognized as Choctaw citizens ; that none of them have ever been called on to pay per- mits, and that he built himself a home on the public domain near Oberlain, Okla., and lived there on it unmolested until it was allotted from him. Wherefore, petitioner prays that his name, Jackson Barrett, and the name of his wife, Martha Barrett ; also the names of his said children, Clyde Boyd, and her son, Claud Doyl ; also his other named children : Joella Acrey, Henry, Arlington, and Walter Barrett and Francis Grayson, Donald, Idee, Bulah, and Justice Barrett ; and that to them and to each of them be given their dis- tributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians, the same as is given to all other resident Choctaws so enrolled. Jackson Barrett (His thumb print.) The name of Jackson Barrett was written by me at his request and in his presence, and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Jackson Barrett, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is the above named Jackson Barrett ; that he has had read over to him the above and fore- INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 339 going petition; and that he knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained are true. Jackson Baekett (His thumb print.) The name of Jaclsson Barrett was written by me at his request and in his presence, and mark made by hlni in my presence. Julius Golden. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915. I furtlier certify that I read over the above petition to afflant, and that he knew the contents thereof and stated that same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF CLYDE BOYD, IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACKSON BARNETT FOR THE ENKOLLMENT OF HIJISELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Clyde Boyd, nge Hill, and shows that she is 29 years of age and that she lives at present at 3012 Cherry Street, Kansas City, BIo., where she was taken by her present husband two years ago the 12th of last January. That she is a Choctaw Indian by blood, by residence, and by recognition, as Is shown by the petition of Jackson Barnett, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties' named therein she knows to be true of her own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her- said father and mother she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That she further knows that she and all the family were all recognized Choctaw citizens ever since she could remember and lived with their said father in his home on the public domain, which he and the boys put in and on which he lived until it was allotted from him. That on the 8th day of January, 1903, she was duly and lawfully married to Monroe Hill, deceased, who was also a Choctaw Indian, and who always said that he would be enrolled and have his child enrolled, but he died ; I, however, depended on the application that my father had made, or thought that he had made, through the lawyers he had employed as shown by his said petition. That her said name appears in the said petition of her said father at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. That on the 18th day of October, 1912, she was duly and lawfully married to James Boyd, with whom she still lives. Clyde Boyd. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1916; I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she stated that she was the Identical person named therein and that same was [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. supplemental petition of joella acrey, in support of the petition of jack- son barnett for the BNEOLtMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Joella Acrey and shows that she is 26 years of age and that she lives 2 miles south from Muskogee, Okla., where she has lived for the last past month That prior to that time her husband took her to Texas where they lived for one year, and all the rest of her life she has lived In the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nation. 340 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. That she is a Choctaw Indian by blood, by residence, and by recognition, as Is shown by the petition of Jackson Barnett, her father, made In her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein she knows to be true of her own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her said father and mother she has always been taught were true ; that she has also feeen told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true and so charges the facts to be. That she has been a recognized Choctaw citizen ever since she could remem- ber as she grew up in the Choctaw Nation. That on the 21st day of February, 1908, she was duly and lawfully married to Willie Acrey, with whom she still lives. That she was compelled to depend on her parents for her enrollment dur- ing her minority, which was never done; that the roll was closed before she reached her majority ; and although she was of sufficient age to have been en- rolled and allotted, she has been omitted by her tribe and all other parties in- terested in her during her minority, and thus deprived of her share of the com- mon property of her said tribe of Indians solely on account of her minority. That her name appears in the said petition of her said father and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. joella aceet. State ,of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915; I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she stated that she was the identical person named therein and that the same was true. [SEAL.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF HKNBY BAKNETT IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACK- SON BABNETT FOE THE ENEOLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Henry Barrett and shows that he is 25 years of age and that he lives at Hugo, Okla. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, and by recogni- tion, as is shown by the petition of Jackson Barnett, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence, and the relationship and residence, he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said father and mother he has always been taught were true ; that he has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were well acquainted with the parties and knew the facts ; and that he believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That he has been a recognized Choctaw citizen ever since he could remember, as he grew up in the Choctaw Nation on the home on the public domain that he helped his father to put in. That during all the enrolling period of the Choctaw Nation since he was born he was a minor ; that no one, not even his tribe or the United States, his sup- posed guardian, looked after his enrollment, although he was old enough to have been enrolled and allotted; that before he reached his majority the rolls were closed by law, and he has -thus been deprived of his share of the common property of his tribe, and solely on account of his minority. That his name appears in the said petition of his father at his request, and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Hbney Bakeett. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 341 State of Oklahoma, Muskogee Co., ss: f.ivi^hll^^^'^^*^ ^^'^ sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915. I =tnto,i th^r, ^ ^^''^^ ■"■ ^^^^ °'^^^ *^^^ ^'^°^® petition to the affiant, and that he statea mat he was the identical person named therein, and that the same was [SEAL.] JxjLius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF ARLINGTON BAKRETT IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACKSON HARNETT FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Arlington Barrett and shows that he is 23 years of age, and that he lives at Haskell, Okla., where he has lived for the last past three months and to which place he moved from the Chickasaw Nation. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and recognition, as is shown by the petition of Jackson Barrett, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relation- ship and residence and the relationship and residence of all of the other parties named therein, he knows to be true of his own knowledge; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said father and mother, he has always been taught were true ; that he has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were well acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that he believes them to be true, and so charges the fact to be. That he has been a recognized Choctaw citizen ever since he could remember, as he was born and raised in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. That he lived with his said father and helped him to clear up a home on the public domain where they all lived without molestation until after allotment. That his name should appear on the approved roll as a Choctaw by blood, and the only reason that he knows that it does not is that he was a minor dur- ing all the years of enrollment since he was born and that the rolls were closed by operation of law against him during his minority ; that the tribe nor the United States, the supposed guardian of the Choctaws, looked after him and neither did his parents, and on account of his minority he is deprived of his birthright. That his name appears in the said petition of his father at his request and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Arlington Barrett. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Arlington Barrett, being first duly sworn on oath, states : That he is the above-named Arlington Barrett ; that he has read over the above and foregoing petition and that he knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained are true. Arlington Barrett. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained the above petition to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was FsFAL 1 JtTLius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. supplement '^L PETITION OF WALTER BARRETT IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACK- SON BARRETT FOB THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Walter Barrett and shows that he is 22 years of age and that he livpti Tt Haskel where he moved from the Chickasaw Nation two months ago. Thnt he' is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and hv recognition, as is shown by the petition of Jackson Barrett, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. 342- INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. That he has read over said petition and linows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matters and things tlierein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said father and mother he has always been taught were true ; that he has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were well acquainted with the parties and knew the facts ; and that he believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That he has been a recognized Choctaw citizen ever since he could remember, as he was born and raised up In the Choctaw Nation. That he was a minor during all the years of enrollment since he was born, end that the roll was closed by law before he reached his majority and left him off, although he was of sufficient age to have been enrolled and allotted ; thus he was deprived of his share of the common property of his tribe for the sole reason that he was a minor. That his name appears in the said petition of his said father at his request, and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same, and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Walter Barrett. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915; I further certify that I read over the above and foregoing petition to the affiant and that he stated that he was the identical party named therein and that the same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF FRANCIS GKAYSON, IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACKSON BARNETT FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Francis Grayson and shows that she is 20 years of age and that she lives at Hugo, Okla. That she is a Chocktaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition ; as is shown by the petition of Jackson Barnett, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein, she knows to be true of her own knowledge; that the matters and thing therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her said father and mother, she has always been taught were true, and that she has also been told that they were true by reliable parties that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true, and so charges the facts to be. That she has been a recognized Choctaw citizen ever since she could remem- ber, having been born and raised in the Choctaw Nation; that she lived with her said father on the public domain until same was allotted from him. That the reason that she was not enrolled and allotted is that she was a minor during all the enrolling years since she was born and that no one loolted after her interests, and that long before she reached her majority, the rolls were closed against her, although she was old enough to have been enrolled and al- lotted. That her name appears in the said petition of her father with her consent and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. B^ANCis Grayson. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 29th day of February, 1915; I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that she was the identical person named therein and that the same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Publio. My commission expires June 2, 1917. INDIAN' APPEOPBIATION BILL. 343 Arii'ADA\'TT OF ALEX NAIL IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACKSON BARKETT ET AL., AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Alex Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age and that he lives at 1006 South Third Street, Muskogee, ()k-la. That he Ivuows the applicant and that he was well and personally acquainted with his mother, Frances Barrett ; her father, old Billy Hunter ; they were all full-blood Choctaws. I also knew her brothers ; one was named Silas Hunter, and the other one was Thomas Hunter, who run for governor at the last election for chief of the Choctaw Nation. I think the oldest one was Nelson. AYhen I am at home I live in Atoka County, but am staying at Muskogee for the present. I have met all the older children of the applicant, but I could not positively identify them if they were away from home. I do know that he has a large family and that they grew up in the southern part of the Choctaw Nation. AxEx Nail (his thumb print). The name of xUex Nail was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden, Witness to Mark. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above affidavit to the affiant, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. , My commission expires June 2, 1917. AFFIDAVIT OF W. M. JAMES IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JACKSON BARRETT FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. That he is well and personally acquainted with the applicant ; that he first knew him at Boswell, Okla., about 20 years ago. That he has always known that his mother was one of the Hunter family, and that he was well and personally acquainted with her brothers, Thomas Hunter, Silas Hunter, and the oldest one that died long time ago, Nelson Hunter ; that were all Choctaw Indians, and that the said Thomas Hunter run for governor at the last election that the Choctaws had. That the applicant is now living at Haskell, Okla., where he moved a short time ago ; that prior to that time I knew him in the Chickasaw Nation and first and most in the Choctaw Nation. Affiant further stated that the applicant went to Texas and stayed for a while, but this was after 1900 ; that wherever I have known him he has always been recognized as a descendant of the Hunter family, his mother having been the sister of the above-named Hunters, and as a Choctaw citizen. W. M. James (his thumb print). State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 13th day of March, 1915 ; I further certify that I read over the above and foregoing affidavit to the affiant, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true, and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. 344 ISTDIAK APPROPRIATION BILL. STAT151IENT OF P. J. HXIKLEY, ATTOBNEV FOK THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re application of .Jackson Barrett, for enrollment of himself, and others, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The foregoing petition was served upon me by Mr. Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law, of Washington, D. C, asking for the enrollment of Jackson Barrett, and others, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The petition and accompanying affidavits are attached hereto, and precedes this statement. The applicants admit that they are not residents of the Choctaw Nation. No eitort is made by them to show that they ever made application for enrollment during the time the rolls were being made. The records of the Indian Office do not show that applications were made by or for any of the applicants within the time required by law. Section 34 of the supplemental agreement between the United States and the Choctaw and Chickasaw people, approved by act of Congress July 1, 1902 (32 Stat., 641), provides as follows: .1* * « rjijjg application of no person whomsoever for enrollment shall be received after the expiration of said ninety days." The 90 days referred to are 90 days after the ratification of the agreement by the Choctaw and Chickasaw people. The agreement was ratified September 25, 1902. They do not show that they were bona fide residents of the Choctaw Nation on the 28th day of June, 1898. The law enacted on that date provides as follows : " No person shall be enrolled who has not heretofore removed to, and in good faith settled in the nation in which he claims citizenship." (32 Stat., 641.) It will be noted from the petition that the applicant claims that his mother died prior to final enrollment; that her uncle, Clayton Hunter, is a duly en- rolled member of the Choctaw tribe of Indians, and that his name appears opposite roll No. 9374. An examination of the approved rolls shows that the name of Lou Pusley appears opposite roll No. 9374. There is, however, a Clay- ton W. Hunter enrolled as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation opposite roll No. 9378, and according to said rolls he is at the present time about 24 years of age. If he is the uncle of the mother of Jackson Barrett, he has a great grand nephew older than himself, which may be possible but is very improbable. The statement of the applicants in regard to their relationship to Clayton Hunter is so in conflict with the records that it should be disregarded en- tirely, but the attorneys for these petitioners procured affidavits from wit- nesses, by wliich affidavits they attempt to corroborate the fabrications regard- ing the relationship, which is set up in the petition. Attached to the applicant's petition is an affidavit, signed by mark, of Alec Nail, who serves as a professional witness for Mr. Ballinger, and his associates, in enrollment matters. Alec Nail is a negro. His affidavit in support of the applicant's petition in this case is as follows : AJ'I'lDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN SUPPOKT OF THE PETT'J'ION OF JACKSON BAKBETT ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age and that he lives at 1006 South Third Street, Muskogee, Okla. That he knows the applicant and that he was well and personally acquainted >vith his mother, Frances Barrett ; her father, old Billy Hunter ; they were all full-blood Choctaws. I also knew her brothers ; one was named Silas Hunter and the other one was Thomas Hunter, who run for governor at the last election for chief of the Choctaw Nation ; I think the oldest one was Nelson. When I am at home I live in Atoka County, but am staying at Muskogee for the present. I have met all the older children of the applicant, but I could not positively identify them if they were away from home. I do know that he has a large family and that they grew up in the southern part of the Choctaw Nation. (Signed) Alec Nail (by mark). State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 20th day of February, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 345 afflrtayit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof, nnd tlint he stated that same was true. f®^^'^-^ Julius Golden, -, ... ' Notary Publio. My commission expires June 2, 1917. On the 31st day of July, 1915, Alec Nail was called upon to testify in rescard to his knowledge of the facts in the above-entitled case before Mr. W. L Bowie an official of the Interior Department, and, after being first duly sworn, testi- fied as follows: Q. Did you make affidavit for Jackson Barrett for use in his application for enrollment? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you know Jackson Barrett before you met him in Ballinger's office a short time aao? — A. Never seen him before. Q. You told me you made an affidavit for Jackson Barrett in Ballinger's office. — A. Yes, sir ; I swore I knew the Hunter family. Q. That you knew the Hunter family? — A. Yes, sir; old Ben Hunter. This man claims that Ben Plunter's daughter was his mother. I didn't know her, but I knew Tommy and Charlie. Q. Who did you say Jackson Barrett is?— A. He looks like a white man. Q. Did he have any indications of negro blood? — A. No, sir; he is just a dark, red-headed white man. Q. Does he claim to be a negro? — A. No, sir; Choctaw. He claims to be old Bennie Hunter's grandson. Q. Does he associate with negroes? — A. I do not know. He does not stay around here. Q. You say you never knew him until you met him in Muskogee a short time ago? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you know his mother? — A. No, sir; I don't know his mother. This Choctaw woman misht have been his mother as far as I know. Q. You know nothing about it only what he claims? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know her name? — A. No, sir; it was Beckie, I think he said. Q. Who did he claim was his father? — A. Well, his father must have been a white man as there was nothing said about him. Q. Did you ever know a person named Billie Hunter? — A. That is the old man. Q. Is he the person you called Benny Hunter? — A. Yes, sir; that is Billie Hunter. Yes, sir ; Billie Hunter ; but the Choctaws called him Benny Hunter. Q. He is the person you thought was meant when Benny Hunter was men- tioned. You mean Billy Hunter? — A. Yes, sir; and there was Silas and Tom Hunter. Q. Who was Tom Hunter? Where does he live? Is he the person who was candidate for governor? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Does he live at Hugo ? — A. About Hugo, I guess. Q. Are you acquainted with Tolliver Barrett? — A. No, sir. Q. You do not know whether Tolliver was the father of Jackson Barrett ? — ^A. No, sir ; I don't. I don't know that at all. Q. Did you know Clayton Hunter ? — A. I knew a Charlie Hunter ; there might have been a Clayton. It needs no discussion to show the conflicts between the testimony of Alec Nail and his affidavit filed in support of the applicant's petition. W. M. James, another professional witness used by Mr. Ballinger and his associates, made an affidavit in support of the applicant's petition. When called upon to testify in regard to the facts set forth in the affidavit he testified as follows : Q. Are you acquainted with one Jackson Barrett ? — ^A. No, sir ; I am not acquainted with Jackson Barrett. Q. You say that you are not acquainted with Jackson Barrett? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever live at Boswell? — A. No, sir. Q. Never did reside there? — A. No, sir. Q. Have you ever been in Boswell? — A. I have. Q. Every stay there any length of time? — A. No, sir; I used to go to Boswell while running over the country in the early days buying cattle for cattlemen. Q. Are vou acquainted with Thomas Hunter? — ^A. No, sir. Q. With Silas Hunter?— A. No, sir. 346 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Q. With Nelson Hunter? — A. No, sir. Q. Were you ever acquainted with Toliver Barrett? — A. No, sir. Q. With Francis Hunter? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever I^now Billy Hunter? — A. No, sir. Q. You never knew any of the Choctaws? — ^A. No, sir; was not very well acquainted with them. Q. Did you know any of the Choctaw freedmen? — A. No, sir; none of the Ohoctaws and Chickasaws ; but I knew the Creeks and Cherokees. I drove a mall hack all through here. Q. I will read you an affidavit purporting to have been made by you and bearing your thumb print, acknowledged to before Julius Golden, notary public of Muskogee County, Okla., under date of March 13, 1915 ; filed by Mr. Webster Ballinger with the application for the enrollment of Jackson Barrett et al., as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation, which is as follows : " That he is well and personally acquainted with the applicant ; that he first knew him at Boswell, Okla., about 20 years ago. "Thnt he hjis al\\-ays known that his mother was o'le of the Hunter family, and that he was well and personally acquainted with her brothers, Thomas Hunter, Silas Hunter, and the oldest one that died long time ago, Nelson Hunter ; that were all Choctaw Indians and that the said Thomas Hunter run for governor at the last election that the Choctaws had. " That the applicant is now living at Haskell, Okla., where he moved a short time ago ; that prior to that time I knew him in the Chicasaw Nation and first and most in the Choctaw Nation. "Affiant further states that the applicant went to Texas and stayed for a while, but this was after 1900 ; that wherever I have known him he has always been recognized as a descendant of the Hunter family, his mother having been the sister of the above Hunters, nnd as a Choctaw citizen. (Signed) " W. M. Jambs (by thumb mark)." Q. Did you make this affidavit?— A. I don't think I did that * * * for a Choctaw. Q. You deny that you ever made such an affidavit ? — ^A. Yes, sir ; for a Choc- taw. Q. You do not know the Jackson Barrett named in this application? — A. No, sir ; I don't know nothing at all about that, for I was not acquainted with that Choctaw family at all. Q. You are not acquainted with that Choctaw family at all? — A. None of the Choctaw families at all. Q. You do not know any of the members of the Hunter family named in this petition? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You do not know the applicant or any of his ancestors? — A. No, sir. Q. His father, mother, sisters, or brothers? — A. No, sir. Q. Are you acquainted with Julius Golden, who executed this affidavit?— A. Yes, sir. I had not examined this case to any great, extent until I found that the Thomas Hunter referred to in the affidavits made by Mr. Ballinger's two pro- fessional witnesses in support of his contentions in this case was the Hon. Thomas W. Hunter, of Hugo, Okla., who has for many years been prominent in Choctaw politics, and is at the present time a member of the house of repre- sentatives of the State of Oklahoma. It should be noted that the affidavits state that the mother of the applicant, Jackson Barrett, was a sister of Thomas W. Hunter and Silas Hunter and the oldest one, Nelson Hunter, who is dead. They also attempt to show that the name of the father of Thomas W. Hunter was Billie Hunter. I wrote a tetter to Hon. Thomas W. Hunter and set forth the facts and asked him to please advise me if these applicants were relntives of his; and if so, what relation. On July 23, 1915, I received the following letter from Hon. Thomas W. Hunter : House or Repeesentatives, State of Oklahoma, FotlETH LECISLATUBE, Hupo, Okla., Juhj 23, J91S. Hon. Pat J. Hueley, Choctaiv National Attorney, Tulsa, Okla. Deae Pat : I have just read your favor of the 22d instant, inclosing affidavits of Alec. Nail and W. M. James (copies) in support of the application of Jackson INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 347 Barrett for enrollment of liimseli as a Choctaw Indian. I have read the afli- davits with a great deal of amusement. They have their card.? mixed. In fact, this same bunch tried to be enrolled at Tushkahoraa many years ago upon the claim that they were near relatives of myself. That Billy Hunter was a brother to my father. Where they fell down was that my father's real name was not Hunter. His true name was Bina Ahantubby, and it being hard to pronounce by the English-speaking people he was called Bennie Hunter, for short; you notice the similarity of the names. I had no sister who was the mother of Jackson Barrett. I am 46 years of age and have never he;ird of Jackson Barrett. I know the bunch that claim to be Choctaws through an old man by the name of Billy Hunter. I have" seen Billy Hunter. About 30 years ago he came to see my father and claimed to be a brother, and my father told him in my presence that it was not so. Billy and his bunch afterwards came near getting by the citizenship committee of the Choctaw Council. The committee sent for me, and' got my testimony. They failed of enrollment. My father was a full-blood Choctaw Indian and could speak but a little English. He had one brother — the only one that ever came to the Choctaw Nation from Mississippi with my father. His name was Pisachabe, also a full-blood Choctaw. If all other claim- ants for citizenship are as fictitious as this one is, they can't get by. There is nothing to the claim of Jackson Barrett, if he depends upon getting by as stated. I am very glad that you taken this matter up with me. In case there is anything else I can do, I should be pleased to be advised. In the meantime I beg to be, as ever, Very respectfully, T. W. Hunter. After having received this letter and after having continued the investigation of the case for some time I found that the applicants insisted that Jackson Barrett was the son of Francis Hunter, who was a sister of Hon. Thomas W. Hunter. As shown by the above letter, Thomas W. Hunter had stated, "I had no sister who was the mother of Jackson Barrett." I again wrote Mr. Hunter, telling him that while his letter was very definite to the effect that Jackson Barrett was not related to him, I wanted him to state positively whether he had ever had a sister named Francis Hunter. On November 8, 1915, I received from him the following letter : Hugo, Okla., November 8, 1915. Hon. Pat J. HuRtET, Attorney for Choctaws, Muskogee, Okla. Dear Mr. Hurley : I have your letter of the 5th instant, making further in- quiry relative to the application for citizenship by Jackson Barrett on the state- ment that he was the son of Frances Barrett, nge Hunter. T wish to state that I have never had a sister by the name of Frances Hunter. I had two half sisters — Enice and Agnes — who died a great many years ago. I have two mar- ried grown sisters living and one that died in infancy. I had never heard of Jackson Barrett until you wrote me some time ago. Yours, truly, T. W. Hunter. These letters, together with the testimony of W. L. James and Alec Nail, the professional witnesses used by Mr. Ballinger and his associates in these mat- ters, seem to show conclusively that these applicants are not entitled to enroll- ment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation; they are not possessed of Choctaw Indian blood ; they are impostors. If they were possessed of Indian blood, they do not reside in the Choctaw Nation and did not make application for enrollment within the time prescribed by law. I have not attempted to procure the testimony of the applicants, for the reason that to do so would consume unnecessary time and cause the Choctaw Nation unnecessary expense. , ,. ,;r r^ ,,■ The examination of the professional witnesses used by Mr. Ballmger and his associates, together with the communications from Hon. Thomas W. Hunter, are sufficient to show that the statements contained in the petition of the appli- cant and the affidavits submitted in support thereof are false. The alleged relationship between these people and the Hunter family does not. exist The person through whom they claim relationship to the Hunter family 348 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. has never existed. There was no such person as "Francis Hunter," sister of Thomas W. Hunter. p. J. HtTELET, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. CASE NO. 3 B. STATEMENT OF P. J. HtrELBT, ATTOKNET FOB THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re petition of Mary Ross, n^e Dunn, n6e Fulsom, for enrollment of herself and Teddy Dunn, her minor son, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Department of the Intebioe, United States Indian Service, Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Olcla., November 3, 1915. Postmaster, SasJcell, Okla. Sir: Desiring to personally interview Mary Ross, said to be the wife of one Linnon Ross, in an ofHcial matter, I would thank you to promptly Inform me, by indorsement hereon and under cover of the inclosed envelope, whether she resides within the delivery of your office ; and, if so, whether in town or at what distance and in what direction in the country. If she does not reside within your delivery, any information you may furnish with respect to present post-office address and nearest town or railway station will be appreciated. Very respectfully, Wm. L. Bowie, Of Special Investigation Service, Office of Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes. Mary Ross lives in the town of Haskell, Okla. She can be found most any time. She runs a restaurant there. Is this person white, Indian, or colored? Negro. T. J. Wat, Postmaster Saskell, Okla. petition of maey boss, nee dun, nee fulsom, fob the enbollment of herself and child as choctaw indians by blood. Comes Mary Ross, nee Dun, nee Fulsom, and shows : That she is 29 years of age and that she lives at Haskell, Okla. That she Is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence; that she is the daughter of William Fulsom, who died many years ago, and who Vi^as a Choctaw Indian and was sometimes called a full blood, but I was always informed that he had some white blood in him. That her mother was Fannie Fulsom, who also died prior to final enroll- ment ; that she died the year that old Oklahoma was opened, 1889 ; that she was a three-quarters Choctaw Indian. That applicant was born and grew to be a good-sixed girl near Atoka, then her mother took her to Oklahoma City, where she died ; that applicant lived in Oklahoma City then five years and has since lived either in the Chickasaw or Choctaw Nation, and this has been the last past 19 years. That on the 6th day of .July, 1900, she was duly and lawfully married to Ed Dun, deceased ; that there was born to this union one child, Teddy Dun, born July 6, 1905, and is still living and lives with applicant at above-stated place of residence. That on the 26th day of September, 1909, she was duly and lawfully married to Lennon Ross, a noncitizen. That she has lived at Haskell for the last past two years ; that prior to that time I was at Durant, at Caddo, and different places, and was out at different periods following my profession at different places, but never for more than six months at any one time. That during years 1890-1899 she was most of the time in Ada, in the Chicka- saw Nation ; the rest of the time she was in Stringtown and other places, wherever she could get the best wages, being a single girl till 1900. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 349 That the renson that I have never been enrolled was that during the enrolling period she was a minor and an orphan; that the roll was closed when she first became of age, and she went to Ballenger and Lee, attorneys, at Ardmore, and was informed that the roll was closed. Wherefore petitioner prays that her name and the name of her said child, Teddy Dun, her present name being Mary Ross, be placed on the roll of Choc- taw Indians by blood, and that to them and to each of them be given their distributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians the same as is given to all other such Indians so enrolled. Emmerson Fulsom, Dr. Fulsom, Julius Fulsom, et al., are the brothers of my father ; are all enrolled. Maby Ross. State of Oklahoma, Muscogee County, s.s. JIary Ross, being first duly sworn, on oath states thnt she is the above- named JIary Ross: fhat she has read over the above and foregoing petition and knows the contents thereof; and that the matters and things therein contained are true. Mart Ross. Subscribed atid sworn to before me this the 9th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant, and that she knew the contents thereof, and that she stated that same was rue. [SEAL.] Julius Golden, Notary Puhlic. My commission expires June 2, 1917. AFFIDAVIT OF W. M. JAJIBS IN SUPPOET OF THE PETITION OF MARY ROSS FOR THE ENEOLLLMENT OF HERSELF AND CHILD AS A CHOCTAW INDIAN BY BLOOD. W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 70 years of age and that he lives at Beeland, Okla. That he knows the applicant and knows where she was born ; and that he has been to the house and eat there with them — this was near where Atoka is now ; affiant further states that he knew her until her mother took her away to Oklahoma Citj' — that was after her father died and when she was a girl ; I also knew her father, William Fulsom, and was well acquainted also with his brother Dr. Fulsom. I knew of other brothers that he had, and know that all of them were Choctaw Indians and were so considered — and considered as full bloods by most of the people. Her mother, Fannie Fulsom, lived with her said father, William Fulsom, until he died. I bought cattle from both William Fulsom and the Dr. Fulsom. Affiant further states that he also knew the applicant when she lived in Oklahoma City with her said mother; that her mother run a boarding house there. I have not known her since, until she moved to Haskell, Okla. W. M. James (his thumb print). The name W. M. James was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden (Witness to mark). State of Oklahoma, Muslcogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 9th day of March, 1915 ; I fur- ther certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above affidavit to the affiant; and that he knew the contents thereof; and that he stated that same was true ; and that he is the above-named affiant. [SEAL.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. affidavit or alec nail in support of the PETITION OF MAEY BOSS FOE THE ENEOLLMENT OF HERSELF AND CHILD AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Alec Nail being fir.st duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age and that he lives near Boggy Depot, Okla. 350 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. That he knows the tipplicant, Mary Ross ; her maiden name was Mary^^^u^ som; she was the daughter of William Fulsom who 3,as mostly ^^^^^^ ^^^ full-blood Choctaw, but may have had some white blood , '^^.^'^^'p^ioctaw. Fannie Fulsom, and she was a mixed blood, about three-fouiUis Oboe Affiant further states that he knows where the app'cant was born ana tnat It was in old Atoka, near the toll, bridge on od^dy Flax splace^,^^ at she lived there until she was a good-sized girl, and tnen nei L?d me^anS^Jfaf srwl°s?ust"lef?tr^o'^ and that she was somewhere, and he had also lost her ^ go„,e time and have met her and now knL'Xt'Te liv^fa^ HaskeTfnd she tells me that she has -lived there for *^The'othlr*placelThl'has lived she has told me about and I know the places hnit Mn't sav how Ion? she lived at any of them, only what she tells me. I know nothing of her child, only what she tells me. Affiant further states that he was well and personally acquainted with the Fulsom family, to which the father of the applicant belonged, and that said father of the applicant had about 7 or 8 brothers and they were all enrolled Choctaws that lived long to be enrolled ; that the names of the ones that I know best and remember were Emerson Fulsom, Dr. Fulsom, Julius Fulsom that were finally enrolled. William died a long time ago. Alec (his thumb print) Nail. The name of Alec Nail was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden (witness to name). State of Oklahoma, Muslcogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this 9th day of March, 1915; I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true and that he was the identical person named as affiant in the above affidavit. [SEAL.] Julius Golden, Notary PMblic' (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) STATEMENT OF P. J. HURLEY, ATTOENEY FOB THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re petition of Mary Ross, nee Dunn, nee Fulsom, for enrollment of herself and Teddy Dunn, her minor son, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The foregoing petition was served upon me by Webster Ballinger, an attorney . at law of Washington, D. C. The petitioner, Mary Ross, claims right to enroll- ment for herself and her minor son, Teddy Dunn, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The applicant claims that she is the daughter of William Fulsom and that William Fulsom was a brother of Dr. I. W. Fulsom, Julius Fulsom, and Emerson Fulsom. The Fulsom family is one of the most promi- nent families in the Choctaw Nation. The applicant in this case is a negro. The testimony of the applicant was taken on the 23d day of November, 1915. A complete copy of her testimony is attached hereto. Attention is called to the fact that the applicant does not know whether her father's name was William Fulsom or not. She states that her father was killed before she was born ; that she believes that her mother was married to her father but does not know whether she was or not. The applicant is not a creditable witness. During the time she was on the stand in this case she made a number of statements about her relatives and the places where she had lived that are entirely at variance with each other. From her testimony, however, it appears that while she may have at one time resided at Atoka, m the Choctaw Nation, she was not a resident of that nation on June 28, 1898, and under the law would therefore he not entitled to enrollment, even if the allegations of her petition in regard to her Indian blood were correct. The act of Congress approved June 28 ISQS bv which act the " Atoka agreement between the United States and ml Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations was approved (30 Stat, 495), provides as follows • INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 351 " No person shall be enrolled who has not heretofore removed to and in good faith settled in the nation in which he claims citizenship." Mary Ross did not malie application for enrollment within the time required by law. The supplemental agreement between the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations and the United States, approved by act of Congress July 1, 1902, pro- vides, in part, as follows (32 Stat., 641) : " * * * the application of no person whomsoever for enrollment shall be received after the expiration of the said 90 days * * *." The 90 days referred to are 90 days after the ratification of the supple- mental agreement. The supplemental agreement was ratified on the 25th day of September, 1902. This applicant did not make application for enrollment within the required time. The application now before us was executed by Mary Ross before Julius Golden, a notary public, on the 2d day of March, 1915, and In regard to the making of this application, Mary Ross testified as follows : Q. Were you led to believe they were enrolling people? — A. I asked, and they said they were. Q. They were enrolling people? — A. Tes, sir; I asked for Ballinger, and Lee was gone, and Ballinger was in Washington, D. C, and they were hired by the Interior, but this man that was doing this writing, he told me he was hired and was getting a salary to enroll people and this colored man. Q. Did this man tell you he was hired by the Secretary of the Interior? — A. Yes, sir ; his duty was to enroll applicants. Q. Did he tell you whether or not he could take any fees for his service? — A. He wouldn't take a penny ; was being paid by the Government. Q. Who was the colored man? — A. Nelson Durant. That is the man I gave the money to. Q. What money?— A. The $5. Q. How much did he ask for?— A. ^25. Q. What was the reason? — A. He was charging — I asked him how come him to charge, and he said, " These witnesses." I wouldn't pay him a cent, so I says. I went back and stalled him. I had the money, but I stalled him. I said after these witnesses, I know her and says there is no use in paying that fellow anything if he won't take the time up with you and find your people. Don't you pay him a penny. So I studied and says that might be I am losing out and I couldn't speak to the white gentlemen. He wouldn't let me in the little room and you go out by the desk and so I talked to him and didn't know what to do and I made up my mind if he would take $5 and promise him the other $15 and I never did send the $15 to him. I have quoted this part of the testimony only to indicate the nature of the institution being conducted by Mr. Ballinger and his associates at Muskogee through which these ignorant and gullible negroes are separated from their money. I am sure that no one could hear the facts in the case as set forth by this applicant and entertain any hope to secure her enrollment as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Yet this firm of attorneys not only took her pe- tition and allowed her to be swindled by a negro in their employment, but also procured the affidavits of two negroes who have served this firm of attorneys as professional witnesses. These affidavits thus secured were for the purpose of corroborating the false statements contained in the petition of Mary Ross. In the first place. Dr. I. W. Fulsom, Julius Fulsom, and Emerson Fulsom never had a brother by the name of William Fulsom, as stated in the petition of this applicant. I am setting forth in full the testimony of William Fulsom, a son of Dr. Fulsom. This testimony was taken on November 22, 1915, and is in full as follows : Q. State your name. — A. William W. Fulsom. Q. Where do you reside? — A. Muskogee, Okla. Q. Are you a member of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians? — A. I am. q! Where were you born? — ^A. Atoka, Okla. Q. What was your father's name?— A. I. W. Fulsom. Q. What was your father's profession?— A. Physician and surgeon. q' Did vour father have any brothers?— A. Yes, sir. Q Name your father's brothers.— A. A. E. Fulsom, Julius Fulsom, F. E. Fulsom and Theodore Fulsom, who died about 25 or 30 years ago. Q Mary Ross, who claims she is 29 years of age and a daughter of William Fulsom states that William Fulsom was a brother of Emerson Fulsom, Dr. Fulsom' and Julius Fulsom. Do you know whether or not yom- father had a brother'named William Fulsom?— A. He did not; no, sir. 352 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Q. Your father's brother referred to in your statement as A. E. Fulsom is Emerson Fulsom? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Attached to an application made by Mary Ross for the enrollment of her- self and child as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation is a petition made by W. M. James. Among other statements, James alleges, " I also knew her father, William Fulsom, and was well acquainted with his brother, Dr. Fulsom. I knew the other brothers that he had, and know tliat all of them were Choctaw Indians and were considered as full-blood among the people." Is that state- ment true or untrue? — A. It is untrue. My father had no brother named Wil- liam Fulsom, and the statement that they were considered as full-bloods is not true. They were considered half-blood Indians, and were in fact. Q. The affidavit purporting to have been made by Alec Nail, attached to the petition of Mary Ross, and is in part as follows : "Afhant further states that he is well and personally acquainted with the Fulsom family, to which the father of the applicant belongs, and that the said father of the applicant had seven or eight brothers, and that they were all en- i-olled as Choctaws that lived long enough to be enrolled ; that the names of the ones he knows best and remembers were Emerson Fulsom, Dr. Fulsom that were finally enrolled. William died a long time ago." Did your father have seven or eight brothers ? — ^A. No, sir ; he had only four brothers. Q. And those four are the ones you have heretofore named in this testi- mony? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your father had no brother named William? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about the applicant, Mary Ross? — A. No, sir; I never heard of her before. Q. You were well acquainted with all of the members of your father's family? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your uncles and aunts, except the one who died about the time you were born? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you now? — A. I am 38. Q. Where did your father reside during his lifetime? — ^A. He was born near Durant, at Old Carriage Point, and he lived at Atoka for many years and then moved from Atoka to Oklahoma City, and was there for about three years, and then moved to Ardmore, where he lived until he died, three years ago. Q. Was there another Dr. Fulsom besides your father? — A. I never heard of one. Q. You are well acquainted with all of the Fulsoms in the Choctaw Nation? — A. Yes, sir. Q. And you never heard of a Dr. Fulsom besides your father? — A. No, sir. It would be unnecessary for us to go further to show that this claim is fraudu- lent, as no such person ever existed as the man whom this negro claimed was her father ; but the firm of attorneys who prepared this case do not hesitate to produce affidavits of their professional witnesses to corroborate the false and fraudulent statements contained in the petition of the applicant. W. M. James, one of Ballinger, Lindley & Rodkeys's professional witnesses, whose affidavit is attached to many of the petitions which they have submitted in citizenship cases, and who is now serving a term in the State penitentiary at McAlester, Okla., testitied in this case before an officer of the Interior Depart- ment on July 30, 1915, as follows : Q. Are you acquainted with Mary Ross? — A. Yes, sir; she lives at Haskell. Q. Do you know who her father was? — A. No, sir; this is another one of Nails ; I don't know anything about her. Q. Did you see her down here? — A. Yes, sir ; seen her after she made affidavit. I read you an allidavit purporting to have been made by you before Julius Golden, a notary public, on March 9, 1915, filed by Mr. Webster Ballinger with the petition of Mary Ross for enrollment of herself and child as Indians by blood of the Choctaw Nation: " W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 70 years oi age and that he lives at Beeland, Okla. " That he knows the applicant and knows where she was born, and that he has been to the house and eat there with them ; this was near where Atoka Is now; affiant further states that he knew her until her mother took her away to Oklahoma City ; that was after her father died and when she was a girl. " I also knew her father, William Fulsom, and was well acquainted also with his brother, Dr. Fulsom. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 353 " I knew of other brothers that he had and know that all of them were Choctaw Indians, and were so considered, and considered as full bloods by most of the people. " Her mother, Fannie Fulsom, lived with her said father, A\'illiam Fulson,, until he died. " I bought cattle from both William Fulsom and Dr. Fulsom. "Affiant further states that he also knew the applicant when she lived in Oklahoma City with her said mother. That her mother ran a boarding house there. " I have not known her since until she moved to Haskell, Okla. (Signed) " W. M. James (his thumb mark)." Q. What do you know about this affidavit? — A. I bought cattle from those people. Q. Did you make this affidavit?— A. I make this affidavit just like Nail. I know the people who are called there. Q. Did Golden read the affidavit to you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You took Alec Nail's statement for all of this?— A. Yes, sir. Q. You do not know her father or mother? — A. No, sir; only those men for whom I bought cattle for in the Choctaw Nation. Q. You do not know whether she Is a Choctow or not? — A. No, sir. Q. Alec Nail got you to do this? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you paid anything? — ^A. No, sir. Q. What did Alec promise you? — A. He said they would pay. She said it they got through, each would get $25. Nail said this, I never spoke to her about it at all. All of this testimony is entirely in conflict with the statements made by the applicant when she testified in this case, as well as in conflict with the allega- tions and the affidavit made by William James. It will be noted that William James says now that he didn't know the applicant and took the word of Alec Nail for all that he swore to ; that he didn't know any of the facts that he swore to of his own knowledge, but Alec Nail, who is another one of Ballinger, Lindly, and Eodkey's professional witnesses and is a negro, who signs by mark, was called upon to testify in this case before an officer of the Department of the Interior on July 1, 1915, and his testimony is as follows : Q. Are you acquainted with Mary Ross? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You do not know a Mary Ross? — A. No, sir. I read you an affidavit purporting to have been made by you before Julius • Golden, a notary public, on March 9, 1915, filed by Mr. Webster Ballinger with the petition for the enrollment of Mary Ross and her child as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation : "Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age and that he lives near Boggy Depot, Okla. " That he knows the applicant, Mary Ross ; her maiden name was Mary Fulsom ; she was the daughter of William Fulsom, who was mostly con- sidered a full-blood Choctaw but may have had some white blood ; that her mother was Fannie Fulsom and she was a mixed blood, about three-fourths Choctaw. "Affiant further states that he knows where the applicant was born and that it was in Old Atoka near the toll bridge on Old Lady Flax's, a place that she lived there until she was a good-sized girl and then her mother took her to Oklahoma City. " I lost track of her then for a good many years and was talking and in- quiring about her last fall to Julius Fulsom, at Atoka ; he stated that her mother died, and that she was just left to go it alone; and that she was some- where, and he had also lost her. " I have been staying in Muskogee for some time and have met her and now know that she lives at Haskell, and she tells me that she has lived there for the last past two years. " The other places she has lived she has told me about, and I know the places but can't say how long she lived at any of them, only what She tells me. " I know nothing of her child, only what she tells me. " Affiant further states that he was and is personally acquainted with the Fulsom family to which the father of the applicant belonged, and that the said father of the applicant had about seven or eight brothers, and that they were all 31362—16 23 354 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. enrolled Ohoctaws that lived long to be enrolled; that the names of the ones I know best and remember were Emereson Fulsom, Julius Fulsom, and Dr. Fulsom, that were finally enrolled. William died a long time ago. (Signed) "Alec Nail (his thumb mark)." Q. Did you make this affidavit? — A. No; not all of that. I know the woman that they are talking about that claimed William Fulsom was her father ; that is about all I know. Q. You made this affidavit that A. She claimed that William Fulsom was lier father. I know him, and that is all I know, and what I told them. I don't know her. Q. You did not know this woman who represented herself to be Mary Ross? — A. No, sir. Q. Had you ever seen her? — A. Not to my knowledge. Q. You knew nothing about her parentage? — A. No, sir; only what she claimed. I knew William Fulsom. Q. You say that she claimed to be the daughter of William Fulsom? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What William Fulsom; where did he live? — A. I don't know where he lived up to his death. I don't know only where .Tulius is living. Q. Did William have any brothers? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Name them. — A. A. Rufus. Q. Where did he live when you knew him? — A. They lived down on Blue. Q. What direction from Durant? — A. East. Q. How far from Caddo? — A. Well, I don't know, sir; I don't know exactly how far. Q. Was William Fulsom married? — ^A. I don't know that. Q. How old a man was he? — ^A. If he had lived, he would have been as old as I am, I recl^on. Q. When did you know him? — A. In my boyhood days. Q. How long has he been dead? — ^A. I don't know now; I don't know when he died or where he died, or whether he is dead at all. Q. Do you know whether he had any children? — A. I don't know. Q. You do not know when he died? — A. No, sir; no, sir. Q. You say that you do not know whether he was married or not? — ^A. No, sir ; I am certain of one thing, and that is if he was married at all it was not to Mary Ross's mother, for Mary is colored. Q. What is this woman's color? — ^A. Just a shade darker than I am. Q. Just a shade darker than you are? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. You are what they call A. A dark bay. Q. What did you get for making this affidavit for Mary Ross? — ^A. I don't know whether $1 or $1.50. Q. Was the affidavit read over to you? — A. Everyone that my thumb is on was read over. They said they read them over, but from what you said there they did not read that. Q. Would you have signed an affidavit testifying that you knew this family and that you knew her family and mother? — A. No, sir; because I don't know the family or the mother, but only the man she claimed was her father ; but am not positive he was or not. P. J. Htjeley, Attomej/ for the Choctaw Nation. Depaktment of the Intekioe, Office of the Superintendent of the Five Civilized Tkibes, Muskogee, Olda., November 2'Z, 1915. In the matter of the application for the enrollment of Mary Ross, n&e Duuft, nee Fulsom, and her son, Teddy Dunn, as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. William W. Folsom, being first duly sworn, on oath testifies as follows : Examination by P. J. Htjeley, attorney for the Choctaw Nation : Q. State your name? — A. William W. Folsom. Q. Where do you reside? — ^A. Muskogee, Okla. Q. Are you a member of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians? — ^A. I am. Q. Where were you born? — ^A. Atoka, Okla. Q. What was your father's name? — ^A. I. W. Folsom. INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 355 Q. What was your father's profession? — A. Physician and surgeon. Q. Did your father have any brothers? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Name your father's brothers. — A. A. E. Folsom, Julius Folsoni, F. E. Folsom, and Theodore Folsom, who died about 25 or 30 years ago. Q. Mary Ross, who claims she is 29 years of age, and a daughter of Wil- liam Fulsom, states that William Fulsom was a brother of Emerson Fulsom, Dr. Fulsom, and Julius Fulsom. Do you know whether or not your father had a brother named William Fulsom? — A. He did not; no, sir. Q. Your father's brother, referred to In your statement as A. E. Folsom, is Emerson Folsom? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Attached to an application made by Mary Ross for the enrollment of herself and child as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation is a petition made by W. M. James. Among other statements James alleges : " I also knew her father, William Fulsom, and was well acquainted with his brother. Dr. Folsom. I knew the other brothers that he had, and know that all of them were Choctaw Indians, and were considered as full-blood among the people." Is that state- ment true or untrue? — A. It is untrue. My father had no brother named Wil- liam Folsom, and the statement they were considered as full-bloods is not true; they were considered half-blood Indians and were, in fact. Q. The affidavit purporting to have been made by Alec Nail, attached to the petition of Mary Fulsom, and is in part as follows : "Affiant further states that he is well and personally acquainted with the Fulsom family, to which the father of the applicant belongs, and that the said father of the applicant had seven or eight brothers, and that they were all enrolled as Choctaws that lived long enough to be enrolled ; that the names of the ones he knows best and remembers were Emerson Fulsom, Dr. Fulsom, that were finally enrolled. William died a long time ago." Q. Did your father have seven or eight brothers? — A. No, sir; he only had four brothers. Q. And those four are the ones you have heretofore named in this testi- mony? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Your father had no brother named William? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about the applicant, Mary Ross?— A. No, sir; I never heard of her before. Q. You were well acquainted with all of the members of your father's family? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Your uncles and aunts, except the one who died about the time you were born? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. How old are you now? — ^A. I am 38. Q. Where did your father reside during his lifetime? — A. He was born near Durant, at Old Carriage Point, and he lived at Atoka for many years, and then moved from Atola to Oklahoma City and was there for about three years, and then moved to Ardmore, where he lived until he died three years ago. Q. Was there another Dr. Folsom besides your father? — A. I never heard of one. Q. You are well acquainted with all of the Fulsoms in the Choctaw Na- tion? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. And you never heard of a Dr. Folsom besides your father? — A. No, sir. Witness excused. Lee G. Grubbs, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he reported the above case on November 22, 1915, and that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of his stenographic notes thereof. Lee G. Gkubbs. Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 2Bd day of November, 1915. [SEAI.] ' Kdwakd Merkick, Notary Public. My commission expires March 17, 1919. Department of the Intekior, Office of the Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Okla.. November 23, 1915. In the matter of the application for the enrollment of Mary Ross, n6e Dunn, nge Fulson, as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Mary Boss, n6e Dunn, n(5e Fulsom, being first duly sworn, on oath testifies as follows : 356 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. Examination by P. J. Hurley, attorney for the Clioctaw Nation : Q. State your name. — A. My name now Mary Ross. Q. Wliere do you live? — ^A. In Hasliell ; in business at Haskell. Q. Do you live in town? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you lived in Haskell?— A. Nearly two years. Q. How old are you?— A. As far as I can tell you, you can count it up. a. was 6 years old when old Oklahoma was opened up. Q. That was In April 22, 1889?— A. Yes, sir. Q. You would be about 30 years old, wouldn't you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where were you born?— A. I was born in Atoka, in the Choctaw Nation— that is what my mother said. Q. In the town of Atoka? — ^A. Out in the country. Q. Which way from Atoka? — A. You know where the toll bridge — cross the toll bridge — don't know whether it is north or west — north of Atoka. Q. Who was your mother? — A. Eliza Folsom; her real name is Flax, I think Eliza Flax. Q. She was married to a Folsom?— A. Yes, sir. Q. What was her husband's first name? — A. William Folsom was what she told me. Q. Do you know anything about who William Folsom was? — A. I never saw my father ; he got killed. Q. Where was he killed? — A. He was killed, I think she told me in Denizen. Q. How was he killed ? — A. He was shot ; he was drunk and got killed. Q. Who shot him? — ^A. A man by the name of Tom Wilson, as far as I can remember ; she always told me that Tom Wilson was a white man. He lived three days after he was shot. Q. Was your father an Indian? — A. That is what she said. Q. Do you know who his relatives were? — A. All the world that I know, she has always old me the Folsoms and Colberts. Q. You have stated in your petition that Amison, Julius, and Dr. I. W, Folsom were brothers of your father? — A. That is what the old people say, they were uncles ; that is what I have been told, Amison and Dr. Folsom. He used to tell me that. Q. Dr. Israel Folsom? — A. Yes, sir; he run a drug store in Atoka after he killed Johnny Hawkins. Q. Did he tell you that you were a relative of his? — ^A. Yes, sir ; he helped me out. Q. Where is he now? — A. He died in Ardmore last year. Q. Did he tell you that your father was his brother William ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When did he tell you that ? — ^A. He has always told me that. Q. Do you know of any of Dr. Folsom's people besides the doctor?— A. I know them if I would see them. I don't really know their names. Q. Do you know his daughter who married Mitchell Bond at Oklahoma City?— A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever see her? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you see his son? — A. He had two boys last time I seen them — I think it was Ardmore, and I was in Ardmore; went to see this very man — this Bal- linger, Lindley, and Rodkey, but couldn't find them, so I went and met him, and he told me now if the rolls are not open, when the rolls open I will help you to get on. Q. You don't know any of his sons?— A. I haven't seen them since they got grown. Q. When did you make that agreement with Ballinger and Lindley and Rodkey in regard to your citizenship application ? — A. I have letters that I could bring with me ; it has been with this man five years. I was in Oklahoma City, and went before the notary public, and swore, and them — this man — sent it from Oklahoma City to Ardmore. I sent him $2 from Oklahoma City. I worlred on 6J Broadway. Q. How long has it been since you lived in the Choctaw Nation? — A. I stayed there at different places. Q. Where, Caddo? — ^A. I lived at Atoka. Q. Have you lived there since you left ? — A. I worked in Atoka. Q. When did you live there? — ^A. I stayed in Ada nearly a year. Q. After you left Atoka? — ^A. I came from the Choctaw Nation. Q. After you left Atoka to go to Oklahoma City, how long did you stay in Oklahoma then? — A. We stayed there until I was a good-sized girl- I don't know just how long. I carried her where I could get the best wages ' INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 357 Q. Did you live there five or six years? — A. I lived in Oklahoma City for two years at one place. Q. When you went there first with your mother? — A. I lived there about two years. Q. You were sick? — A. No; she was sick. I can't swear where she carried me from. We went to Oklahoma City and stayed there a couple of years and then to Shawnee, then to Ada, then to Ctiddo. She was nearly blind. Q. The last time you lived in Atoka during the administration of Cleve- land? — ^A. That is the last time I remember of. Q. You haven't been back since? — A. No ; not in Atoka. Q. Did you live in the Choctaw Nation at any other places during the ad- ministration of Cleveland? — A. I don't know; at Caddo, I think. Q. You recall the Spanish- American War now, don't you? — A. Yes, sir; I re- member that. Q. Were you living in Oklahoma City or Atoka?— A. I think I was in Caddo or Denizen one. Q. Denizen, Tex. ? — A. Yes, sir. I can't say I know. I have some letters, but I don't remember whether it was Denizen or Caddo. Q. Could you send me the letters or copies of them to find out where you were? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you got the letters you received from Ballinger and Lee in regard to your claim? — A. Yes, sir; I think I have. I have a trunk in the storage house; they may be in that trunk. I have a lot of stuff in storage in Oklahoma City. Q. How did you happen to make this last application for enrollment? — A. I saw it in the paper. Q. What in the paper? — A. Where the rolls would be open. Q. ^A'hat paper?— A. The Tulsa World, I think, that the Choctaw rolls would be open ; I saw all this business advertised, that is why I came over here. I seen the Ballinger, but not the Lee. The gentleman who done this business was a heavy, fat man. Q. White man? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When you came over here to Muskogee, who did you come to see in Mus- kogee? — ^A. I came to that office. Q. In this building? — ^A. I suppose so. Q. Were you led to believe they were enrolling people? — A. I asked and they said they were. Q. They were enrolling pople? — A. Yes, sir; I asked for Ballinger, and Lee was gone, and Ballinger was in Washington, D. C, and they were hired by the Interior, but this man that was doing this writing he told me he was hired and was getting a salary to enroll people, and this colored man. Q. Did this man tell you he was hired by the Secretary of the Interior? — A. Yes, sir ; his duty was to enroll applicants. Q. Did he tell you whether or not he could take any fees for his service? — A. He wouldn't take a penny ; was being paid by the Government. Q. Who was the colored man? — A. Nelson Durant; that is the man I give the money to. Q. What money? — ^A. The five dollars. Q. How much did he ask for? — A. Twenty -five dollars. Q. What was the reason? — A. He was charging. I asked him how come him to charge, and he said these witnesses. .1 wouldn't pay him a cent so I says, I went back and stalled him. I had the money, but I stalled him, I said after these witnesses, I know her, and says there is no use in paying that fellow anything if he won't take the time up with you and find your people, don't you pay him a penny ; so I studied and says that might be I am losing out, and I wouldn't speak to the white gentlemen, he wouldn't let me in the little room, and you go out by the desk, and so I talked to him and didn't know what to do, and I made up my mind if he would take it I would give him $5 and promise him the other $15, and I never did send the $15 to him. Q. You did pay Nelson Durant $5? — A. Yes, sir; and I paid $1.75 to a little bitty fellow. Q. What is he, a notary public? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is his name, Julius Golden? — A. He has a long nose, looks like a Jew, I don't think he is an American. Q. When did you do this, March of this year, the date of this application? — A. Yes, sir. 358 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Q. That was the day you appeared at Balllnger and Lee's office and paid the $5 to Nelson Durant? — A. When was it made up; March 9, 1915. „ , a n Q. What did Nelson Durant say that you should pay this money for .—a. He says do you think I am up here for my health and takes a book and nunt your relatives, and he writes who I am and who my people are, and he cairies tnis thing on a piece of paper in. Q. Whose office? — ^A. The stout man. Q. .Judge Lindsey?— A. I won't swear that it was. Q. Was it in this building on the second floor?— A. I think it was, it wasnt this high up ; I could tell you what floor if I was to walk up, for I walked up that time for I never could get in the elevator for it was always crowded. Q. Did he say he had to give the man who was taking your application any Iiart of the money? — A. He didn't tell me that, I was to pay him $15 more, send him as much as $5 a wpek, but I didn't send him a penny. Q. Did you pay any money direct to Balllnger? — A. I sent him $2. Q. When did you send him this money? — A. About four years ago. Yon know the year that that colored man killed the high sheriff from Oklahoma City. Alf Hunter, the man who was hanged for the murder of the sheriff; I mean the year he killed the sheriff. Q. You mean Mr. Garretson? — ^A. Got a red-headed son in Oklahoma City. That is the year I went before the notary public and sworn, and told him I knowed about the papers. I can't tell you everything about it. I sent him the $2 and I never got another word from him until I heard he was here. Q. Have you had any letters recently? — A. I told you I got it about two months ago. I got a letter from Muskogee from Balllnger, so it said to meet him in Muskogee at this office. I wrote to Washington, D. C, about it, and I got a letter from Washington, and I fell out with Balllnger and wouldn't come to Muskogee. I thought he was a fraud ; he would try to work me for more money, and I wouldn't get nothing back. After I wrote to Washington I gave it up. Q. Do you know W. M. James? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was he one of your witnesses? — A. Yes, sir; bald headed; and another one that has asthma. They knew me when I was a kid. I saw him about two months ago in Muskogee, and I asked him what about it, and he said he was a grand rascal. Q. You say that W. M. .Tames knew your father and mother? — A. He says he does. Q. Did he say he knew you when you were a baby? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you ever see him before you saw him in Ballinger's office? — A. Yes, sir. Q. On the 30th day of July, 1915, W. M. James testifled in his case before this office, and, among other thinss, he was asked the question, "Are you ac- auainted with Mary Ross?" and he answered, "Yes, sir; she lives at Haskell." Q. Do you know who her father was? — A. No sir; that is another one of the Nails. I don't know anything about her. Q. Is this the same one that knew you when you were a girl? — ^A. There were two Nails. This is the testimony — tall, yellow fellow, bald headed. Mr. Hurley. He has an affidavit attached to your petition. He swears now that he didn't know. Do you remember him when you were a girl? — A. I re- member this old man; I remember both of these old men. I don't remember them ; I know their faces. I know this bald-headed man. Q. Where did he live? — ^A. Since I have been grown, in Muskogee. Q. When? — A. I,ong time ago. Q. How many year.s? — A. I don't know. I wasn't nothing but a kid. There is two old men ; one has the asthma and the other is bald-headed and has real white hair. The tall, bald-headed one is the one that I know Q. Did you promise to pay him and Alec Nail .$25 each iii cash in case you were enrolled? — A. No, sir; something to eat is all, down at a restaurant Q. Did you ever see this man W. M. James before you were introduced to him by Nail?— A. I am trying to think; I can't think of those names Q. James; do you know him?— A. I have seen him; he is from the Choctaw Q. Did you know W. M. James before you met him in Ballinger's office"'— A Yes ; I knew this old yellow man ; he was W. M. James— William, seems like to Q. Tell me whether or not the man you are speaking of is W. M James who made the affidavit?— A. He is an old yellow man; we call him Uncle Wiillam. INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 359 Q. Where did you first know this mau? — A. The first time to Icuow him was in Muskogee. Q. How long ago? — ^A. That has been a long" time ago. Q. Since you have been living in Haskell or before that — where did you live when you knew him first? — ^A. I don't know positively the first time I met him; he shook hands with me. Q. Who was he with?— A. He wasn't with anybody. Q. Did he just step up and speak to you? — ^A. I don't know whether he did or not. He just said, "Where are you and where have you been?" I just swapped a few words with him and passed him. Q. You hadn't seen him before he stepped up to you on the street and shook hands with you? — ^A. No, sir. Q. How many years ago has that been? — A. I can't tell you. Q. Are you married? — ^A, Sure, I am; married twice. Q. When were you married to your last husband? — A. About five years ago. Q. Was it before that? — ^A. Yes, sir; there was something going on in Mnskogee. Q. Who were you married to before you married Ross? — A. Dan Ranson. Q. Where were you married to him? — ^A. Hern, Tex. Q. Was he a colored man? — ^A. He wasn't. Q. What was he? — A. He was supposed to be Cherokee. Q. When were you married to him? — A. When I was about 16. Q. You are about 30 years of age now? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you were married to Ranson in Texas 14 years ago? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it before that that you met James on the streets of Muskogee? — A. Before I was married the first time, no ; after. Q. What became of Ranson? — A. He is dead. Q. Where did he die? — ^A. He died In Oklahoma City. Q. When? — A. About seven years ago. Q. When did you come from Hern, Tex., to Oklahoma City? — A. I can't tell you just when ; I was running a hair parlor In Texas when I married. Q. How long did you live there after you married before you came to Okla- homa? — A. I was visiting there; I learned the hair trade there; I had been writing to him a long time. Q. Ranson v/as never enrolled as a citizen or freedman? — A. No, sir. Q. How long had you been living in Texas? — A. I hadn't been there no time ; It was during the holidays that I laid off. Q. You haven't established the first time you met James. — A. The first lime, I remember him, I remember that I had been married the first time when I met him in Muskogee. Q. Did you and your first husband live in Muskogee? — A. Xo, sir. Q. Did he die In Oklahoma City? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was it since your first husband died in the last seven years that you first met James in Muskogee? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Before you married Ross? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Which is five years ago? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Then you met him between six and nine years ago? — A. Yes, sir. I think it was on Second Street. Q. That was the first time you had ever seen him? — A. Since I have been grown, that is the second time. Q. Did you see him before you met him? — A. The first time I remember seeing him, the old yellow man, was after I was married the first time, after my first husband died. Q. Then you didn't know him when you were a girl? — A. No, sir; not when I was a girl. Q. Another affidavit attached to your petition, the affidavit of Alec Nail, do you know him? — ^A. Yes, sir ; I know him when I see him. Q. Where did you first meet him? — A. The first time to know him was in Muskogee. Q. How long ago? — A. I think it was this year. March, this year. Alec Natl is a low, dark, black fellow, and William is a yellow negro, right white hair. Q. Did Alex Nail claim to have known you and know who your parents were? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you .ever see him before you met him m Ballinger's office ? — A. I don't remember. . Q. James has sworn that all he knows about you Alex Nail told him, and Alex Nail was asked the question, " You didn't know this woman who represents 360 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. herself to be Mary Ross," and his answer was " No, sir." Tou Imew nothing about her parents only what she claimed? — ^A. I knew William Folsom. Q. Tou don't know whether this man knew anything about you? — ^A. No, sir ; I don't. Q. Did you pay him anything for making the affidavit? — ^A. No, sir. I give him something to eat and had the ashman man I am talking about with him. Q. Didn't you give him a dollar or a dollar and a half? What did you get for making that" affidavit for Mary Ross? — A. I don't know whether it was a dollar or dollar and a half. I give each one a dollar to get something to eat and they was hungry, then he came back and asked if I would give him fifty cents to get whiskey, and I told him I didn't have it. Q. State in your own way where the difEerent places that you have lived since you left Atoka, the year of the opening of old Oklahoma, 1889. — ^A. I lived in Caddo awhile Q. You stated awhile ago you lived in Oklahoma City. — ^A. I told you I was six years old when she carried me away and she carried me to Oklahoma City and Ardmore. Q. How long did you stay in Oklahoma City? — ^A. Two years. Q. Then you left Oklahoma City to go to Ardmore when you were eight years old? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How long did you stay there? — ^A. About a month or two. Q. Where did you go to from Ardmore? — A. Shawnee. Q. How long did you live in Shawnee? — A. I stayed there about eight or nine months. Q. Where did you go from Shawnee? — ^A. I went to Ada. Q. How long did you stay in Ada? — ^A. I stayed there nearly a year. Q. You stayed in Ada until you were about 10 years old? — ^A. Yes, sir; 1 was born July 6th. • Q. What year? — ^A. I don't know; I just know I was born July 6th. Q. Where did you go to from Ada? — ^A. We came back to Oklahoma City. Q. How long did you stay in Oklahoma City that time? — ^A. I don't know exactly. We worked in Oklahoma City, kept house, my mother was a house- keeper in Oklahoma City for a man named Too-John. Q. Was he a white man? — ^A. Yes, sir; he was a white man. Q. How old were you when you left Oklahoma City the next time? — ^A. I don't remember ; seems to me she stayed there a good while and they sold out and left there and went to a place — they don't allow colored people there, there is a brick yard there ; I don't know where the town was. Q. Which way from Oklahoma City ? — ^A. I don't know ; there is a little town with a Sutton Hotel. Q. Was it in Old Oklahoma or Territory? — ^A. I don't know; there wasn't oil there but it is now. Q. How old were you when you went there? — ^A. I don't know just how old I was. Q. How long did you remain in Oklahoma City this last time — the time you spoke of now when your mother kept house for Too-John? — A. I think we stayed there nearly a year. Q. You were 10 years old when you left Ada to go there and you must have been 11 when you left Oklahoma City the second time ; you went to a town you don't know the name of? — ^A. There wasn't anything there then much. Q. Do you remember the fare from Oklahoma City to this place? — ^A. It was $1.60. Q. Do you remember what railroad you traveled on? — A. I don't remember what railroad, but we changed cars at Osage Junction ; I don't know wliether it is in the Choctaw or Osage Nation. Q. You went from Oklahoma City? — A. We stayed there and worked for a man by the name of Sutton. I worked in the pantry for him. Q. How long did you stay there? — A. I stayed there eight or nine months in that place. Q. When you left that place where did you go? — ^A. We came back to Okla- homa City. Q. How long did you stay there this time? — A. I don't remember; we stayed there a long time. Q. Were you married in Oklahoma City that time? — ^A. No, sir". Q. How old were you? — ^A. I don't know. Q. Did you stay there a year or two years? — ^A. My mother died before I ever left. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 361 Q. Your mother died in Oklalioma City wlien you went back? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old were you when your mother died? — A. I don't remember; I have forgotten ; I know I had been working and taking care of her. Q. Wliere did you go from Oklahoma City that time?— A. I worked for a woman in Shawnee. Q. Who was the Woman? — ^A. Miss Nellie. Q. Nellie who? — A. Just Miss Nellie is all I know; she was a big fat woman. Q. What does she do? — A. Runs a rooming house. Q. Were you a grown woman when you worked for her? — ^A. I wasn't when my mother died. Q. Were you grown when you worked for Miss Nellie — how long did you work for her? — ^A. About a year, I think, and two months. I know I spent a Christmas with her. I remember what she gave me. Q. Where did you go when you left Shawnee? — A. I went with some white people when I left Shawnee — a railroad man's wife by the name of Whitson. She was sick, and I went with her to Monero, Mexico; stayed two weeks and came back to Shawnee, and I left then and went to and stayed with a doctor; I believe I have forgotten. I stayed with these white people until I married. I married this fellow Eauson ; I met him the first time ; I don't know whether it was in Caddo or in new Oklahoma ; got acquainted with him on the train. I used to always go with the white people ; never went with the colored people. Mr. HUELET. You are not telling me where you went to? — A. I lived with her a long time, and I met this man on the train. Q. What did he do on the train? — ^A. Nothing; he was traveling; he said he came from the Cherokee Nation. Q. Indian or freedman? — A. He looked like an Indian. Q. Where were you married to him? — ^A. Hern, Tex. This woman — I was with her — she had consumption. Q. You were not living in the Choctaw Nation, you were living at Shawnee? — A. She would live a week or two at a place. She had a child. Q. What was the child's name? — A. Henry. Q. How old was he? — ^A. Three years old. Q. How old was Henry when you first started staying with her? — ^A. He was setting alone and crawling around. Q. How old was Henry when you quit staying with this woman? — A. He was walking; this woman died before I married, but I was engaged to this man; he commenced writing from the day he met me on the train. We was on our way to San Antonio, Tex. Q. Did you go to that town in Texas to marry? — ^A. No ; I met him in Texas ; I was canvassing, selling hair goods. Q. Who were you selling hair to, white or colored? — ^A. I handled white hair, and I also manicured. I would put my ad in barber shops. They would have the boys bring me the message, and I would go to residence and do the work. Q. Did you ever work in a white barber shop. — ^A. I put my ad in them. Q. How old were you when you married Hanson? — A. I was about 16; that was the way I counted. Q. You had never been back to the Choctaw Nation to live before you married him from the time you left there with your mother, just go there after you married Hanson, how long was it before you went back to the Choctaw Nation? — A. Haven't been back to amount to anything. I have lived in Ada. Q. Have you lived in the Choctaw Nation since you married Hanson? — A. No, sir. Q. You were 16 when you married him? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. You hadn't lived in the Choctaw Nation before you married him since your mother had left there for Oklahoma City? — A. I think not. Q. You stated that you were a daughter of William Folsom?— A. That is what my mother told me. He was the brother of Emerson, Doctor, and Don, but I know Doctor. Q. Do you know Julius Folsom? — A. No, sir; they say they were Indians and not half-breeds. ^ . ^, ^ ^ „ , Mr HuBUiT. If you were confronted with the fact that Dr. Folsom never had a brother named William Folsom, no such person ever existed, what are vou going to say about that? You saw that young man standing over there, that Is William Folsom, the son of Dr. Israel Folsom. We have just taken his testimony. He stated he was enrolled as of the age of 24. He is not older than you are, he couldn't possibly be your father. His father is Dr. I.«W. 362 INDIAN APPROPIMATION BILL. Folsom, the man you claim was your uncle. This man has sworn, and the records of this office bear out this statement, that he didn't have an uncie named William Folsom. His father never had a brother named William Folsom. What is your statement in the face of these facts? — A. That is all 1 know, what my mother told me ; that might not have been my father s name. My father was a Folsom in the Choctaw Nation, and I told you people I know old lady Flax; I used to roll her around in a chair. Q. Was she white? — A. She was an Indian; she was 150 years old when she died, they said. Q. What relation was your mother to her? — A. I don't know what kin she was, but she was kin. Q. Did she work for lier ? — A. No, sir ; not that I know of. Q. You don't know who your mother was kin to? — A. The Flaxes, she told me ; I never bothered with them. Q. You don't know whether your father was a brother of Israel Folsom? — ^A. He was a brother of these folks ; I know the Folsoms, all right. Q. You don't know whether your father was any relation or not? — A. When I went to Ardmore some years ago and Lee was enrolling, I met Dr. Folsom and told him about it, and he said where your father lived he was always passed as an Indian, and I have always passed for an Indian. My mother is white; ask anybody that has seen her picture; you would swear she was Cherokee. Q. Did your mother tell you she was married? — A. She said "My husband got killed." Q. Your present husband is a colored man? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. He is not a citizen of any tribe? — A. No sir. Q. Your former husband claimed to have Cherokee blood, but wasn't en- rolled? — A. I don't know whether he was enrolled or not. Q. When did he die? — A. He has been dead seven years. I will see if I can find some letters he got from his kinspeople in the Cherokee Nation. Q. You live with the colored folks? — ;A. No, sir; not now. I have been raised right up with the white people nearly all my life ; never did associate with the colored people. I would like for you to see my mother's picture, maybe somebody would recognize her. I was six years old — I remember that when the year that Cleveland was President, the last year that he was in office, my mother carried me to the depot in Atoka and the band was playing on the train and I know she held me up so I could see. She showed me those people going to Denison. That is all I know about the Folsoms. I guess any- body would try a chance for getting anything. I have been living without it. When the man talked about the money I don't know what my mother said. My mother went by the name of Eliza Folsom, and she has been married three times. She married a man once by the name of Gus Johnson, no Lane, Gus Lane, before I was grown, and the man left her ; she commenced getting blind. I traveled with white people and was raised with white people. Q. Was your mother married to any of these husbands before you were born ; she was married to Lane before you were born ? — A. No, sir ; I remember her marrying well. Q. Who was she married to before she married Lane? — A. I don't know, and he didn't stay very long. Q. Was he colored? — ^A. He didn't look like it. Q. Did he associate with colored men? — A. No, sir; he run a shoe store. Q. Where, in Oklahoma City? — A. I think that is where she saw him; he was a shoemaker. Q. How old were you when she died? — A. A very small girl. Q. Eight or ten? — A. No not that old. Q. Six? — A. I suppose so. Q. How long was she in Oklahoma City before she married him? — ^A. Not very long. Q. Was your father killed before you were born? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you have any brothers and sisters? — ^A. No, sir. Q.'Your mother never had any other children? — ^A. I think three or four. Q. Who was the father? — ^A. I never asked her. Q. Do you know whether she was married to your father? — A. I couldn't swear to that. Q. Do you know the children? — A. The children are all dead. Q. You don't know whether this man Folsom was the father of these children bown before you? — A. I don't know. All her children is dead but me. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 363 Q. Will you send me those letters you claimed to have received from Bal- llnger? — A. Yes, sir; I will hunt them all up; lots of them are postal cards. He told me the roll was open. Q. How long ago has it been? — ^A. Not very long. Q. Has it been six months since he wrote you? — ^A. Said he would let me know, and for me to keep up and see when the roll, the Choctaw rolls were open. Q. When was that? — -A. A good while ago. Q. These men that took your application, what officer of the Interior Depart- ment did they say they represented, the Secretary of the Interior, the Commis- sioner of Indian Affairs, or the Superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes? — A. The Secretary of the Interior. They told me Choctaws and Creeks and Chickasaws, and there was a Creek and Chickasaw woman there. Susan Harris enrolled her child the same day I was enrolled, and another woman from the Cherokee Nation the same day, and there was four of us— there was six enrolled there that day. Q. Did those people claim they were authorized by the Government to enroll those people? — ^A. This white man told me he was getting a salary from the Government to enroll the people; he wouldn't take any money from them. I never offered him any. I sat in front of the table. The old man, both of them talked so plain I was getting the value of the land in money. I told them I didn't care for the land ; I will take anything. I will set up the cigars, and he says Mrs. Ross, I would not take one penny from you or anybody I ever saw to do this work, because the Government has me hired. I am getting my salary from Washington, D. C. I said if I was to get any money I would not mind setting them up. Q. That was in Balllnger's office? — A. Yes, sir. Q. The colored man was Nelson Durant? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Who was the white man doing the speaking? — A. He didn't say what his name was. He was a big, fat man; not as tall, but heavier than you are. I think it was Judge landly ; he told me he was raised in the Choctaw Nation. Q. Did he say he was from McAlester? — A. Yes, sir; South McAlester. Q. Did you have your son enrolled, Theodore Dunn? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How old is he? — A. Eleven years old. Q. Where was he born? — A. He was born at Caddo. Q. Did you ever live at Le Heigh? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you married to this boy's father? I thought you only married twice. — ^A. I told you I had been married two times. I named that boy after someone else. I had cause for naming him what I did. Q. You were not married to this boy's father? — A. No, sir. Q. Who was this boy's father and what is his name? — A. 1 aint going to tell you any more. Mr. HniLET. How do you expect us to know what his rights are? — A. I didn't claim he was an Indian. I don't know anything about him being an Indian. Q. Do you know who his father was? — A. Sure I know his father. Q. Where does he live? — A. He is dead; they said the boy could be put on the rolls through me. I never tried to get him in on his father. They made me pay $1.75. , ^^ Q. Were you married to Ross when this boy was born?— A. No, sir. Q. Were you married to Ranson at the time he was born? — A, I was mar- ried, which one I can't tell you; I don't want to ruin my reputation; I will tell you privately. , . ^, ,. Q. Did you ever make application for enrollment during the time the rolls were being made? — A. Yes, sir. Q Where did you make it? — A. With Ballinger and Lee. Q While they were making the roll? — A. I was not here. q! Where did you live?— A. I was with my mother. O In Oklahoma City? — ^A. Yes, sir. o' Whv was it you didn't make it before now? — A. I told you that I didn't make anplication before this time, and I told them I had made application to Balllneer and he said he was the man getting up the Choctaw rolls, and he told me to go before a notary public, and I had to go before three— one in Oklahoma City and one in Shawnee and had to give each one a dollar and go hofnre another here and paid him 75 cents, which made $2.75. Q Did you have any other children besides this Dunn boy?— A. Yes, sir; I had three ; they are dead. 364 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. J. Q. Who was the father? — ^A. Ranson. Q. Where were those children born? — A. Different parts of Oklahoma. Q. This child that you make application for hasn't any claim except through you? — A. No, sir; I didn't think it was fraudulent by them coming out so publicly, but if had been In a private place I wouldn't have went to see about it, but I was told by lots of people that this was in this office. A public place, a fine place before a crowd of people. I never thought about it being a fraud. If I am prosecuted for anything I can hold this man, and this colored man he carries me into this office, and this white man copies off of this piece of paper and puts it on two pieces of paper. He keeps one, they keep one. This colored man writes in this room out of a book, then he carries it in there. He claims lie finds your relatives on the roll, and all I swore to is that my mother said that the Pulsoms was my people and the Flaxes were her people. I was bom after my father died. Q. You wouldn't have gone before these people if you hadn't thought them offi- cers of the United States? — A. Sure I wouldn't have paid the colored man $5 and wouldn't have paid them the $15, but my mind didn't feel right. After I had stalled him and told him I would send him the $15 I talked to several lawyers and they said he was a grand rascal and had been to the penitentiary, and that Lee had run off for some cause. Different people that I knew when 1 got this last letter about two months ago to come to Muskogee, it said if you want to know something about this enrollment come to Muskogee at once, and I wrote and answered the letter. Got one and I read it and I says, "Ain't nothing to it," and I sits down and writes " if there is anything to do let me know at once by answering," and I have never heard since. When I got this letter I said, " I am going to see about this, whether it is bad or good." Q. Will you ask Alice Oole to come up here? — A. Yes, sir; they have all been chilling. I know Susan Harris. This thing was all right ; Susan Harris, the woman, she has got plenty of property in this country ; that made me feel all right. You know her girl was enrolled in this same office. I asked her " have you heard from that enrollment? " And she said " maybe you won't get on for two or three months." Jack Simmonds hold me he thought it was all right. White people have told me they didn't see why this man wanted to cheat me out of tliat money. I told them I wouldn't pay the other $15, but if I found out everything was all right I wouldn't mind tipping them all. Ballinger wanted me to sign a paper that give him 10 per cent. Q. Where did you sign it? — A. In Oklahoma City. French Rayburn, being first duly sworn, on oath states that as stenographer to the national attorney for the Choctaw Nation he reported the proceedings in the above-entitled case on the 23d day of November, 1915, and that the fore- going is a true and correct transcript of his stenographic notes thereof. Feench Ratbtjbn. Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the • — day of November, 1915. [seal.] R. p. Habrison, Clerk V. S. Court, East. Dist. Okla. By WuiiAM L. BooNK, Deputy. My commission expires . CASE NO. 5A. Petition or Emily Mills, kee Allen, foe the Eneollment of Heesblf and MiNOK Child, Maky Mills, as Choctaw Feeedmen. Comes now Emily Mills, nee Allen, and states and shows that she is 28 years of age, and that she lives and resides at 427 Extra Street, Tulsa, Okla. ; that she was born and reared in the Choctaw Nation and resided in said Nation until about the year 1902, when she removed to Ardmore, in the Chicka- saw Nation, and since removed to Tulsa, Okla., her present address. Petitioner states that she is a daughter of Bart Allen, who was a Choctaw freedman by right and residence, but that her said father was never enrolled. Petitioner further states that her said father was a full brother to Klzzie Allen, a Choctaw freedman, and who, as such, is duly enrolled upon the approved rolls of the said Choctaw Nation opposite roll No. 3663. IKDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 365 -.n«^^*"'*''°^'' *"''tl>er states that she was duly and legally married June 9, 1904, to Lum Mills, and that to this union there have been born the following named childen : Mary Mills, born March 17, 1905, living, and not enrolled ; Lonnie Mills, born September 2, 1907, deceased. Petitioner states that, by reason of her right to enrollment through the blood of her said father, and by reason of the date of the birth of her said child, Mary Mills, her said child, Mary Mills, Is also entitled to enrollment upon the approved rolls of the Choctaw Nation. Wherefore, petitioner prays that the names of herself, Emily Mills, and of her said minor child, Mary Mills, be placed upon the approved rolls of the said Choctaw Nation, as Choctaw freedmen ; and that to them there be given their respective distributive shares of the common property and funds of said Choc- taw Tribe of Indians, the same as is given to all other citizens so enrolled as such freedmen. And she will ever pray. Emily Mills. State of Oklahoma, County of Okfuskee, ss: Emily Mills, nee Allen, after being first duly sworn, upon her oath, states that she is 28 years of age ; that she is the person named in the within, above, and foregoing petition for the enrollment of herself and her minor child, Mary Mills; that she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof; and that the statements, matters, and things therein set forth and contained are true. Dated this 7th day of April, A. D. 1915. Emily Mills. Subscribed and sworn to before me, Charles E. Guthrie, a notary public in and for the above named county and State, on this the 7th day of April, A. D. 1915. [SEAL.] ChAS. E. GuTHEIE, Notary Public. My commission expires January 9, A. D. 1917. affidavit of G. W. WILSON IN SUPPOKT OF THE PETITION OF EMLEY MILLS, N:6e allen, fob the enrollment of herself and her minor child, mary mills, as choctaw freedmen. State of Oklahoma, County of Okfuskee ss: G. W. Wilson, after being first duly sworn, upon his oath, deposes and says that he is about 39 years of age; that he lives and resides at 619 East Archie Street, Tulsa, Okla. Atfiant further states that was, for a long time, a resident of the Choctaw Nation ; and that he is and has always been well and personally acquainted with Bart Allen, of Idabel (I. T.), Okla.; and that he, affiant, knows that the said Bart Allen was a full brother to Klzzle Allen, who Is duly enrolled upon the approved rolls \':r-^® ^°'^®®' straight nose, but his hair is slightly curley at the ends." ■; Petitioner further shows that their said father was not the only Choctaw Indian whose hair was slightly curley at the ends, and that that was not legal grounds for denying them of their rights as Choctaw Indians. That this applicant and no member of his said father's family, for whom he makes application, has ever been called on to pay a permit in either the Choctaw or Chickasaw Nation. That the applicants named herein did work with their said father in making their home on the public domain, and that he had in cultivation 200 acres with three sets of Improvements thereon, which he lived on for 40 years and held INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 377 until he died and wliicli tliese applicants held until it was allotted away from them. . Wherefore petitioner prays that his name, John Harrison, and the names of his said children, Henry, Kennith, and Benjamin Harrison; also the name of Sloan Harrison and his family, to wit, Charley, Randeen, and Willie Harrison ; also the name of Minnie Bowie and her said children, Lou Tipton, Johnie, Fannie, Ada, and Sfanda Hatcher ; also the name of Lydia Williams, his sister, and her children, to wit, Johnson and Jesse Will'ftims, Hattie Rawlins, Fannie Thompson, Roxie Flannigan, and Harrison Williams and Rosie Record, be placed on the approved roll as Choctaw Indians by blood, and that to them and to each of them be given their distributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians, the same as is given to all other Choctaw Indians by blood. John Harrison. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: John Harrison, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is the above- named John Harrison ; that he has read over the above and foregoing petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained are true. .John Harrison. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 5th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same were true. Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF SLOAN HARRISON, IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HARRISON, FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL., AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Sloan Harrison and shows that he is 39 years of age, and that he lives in Muskogee, Okla., at 803 South Eighth Street. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of John Harrison, his brother, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition ajid knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained he knows to be true of his own personal knowledge. That his present home is in Muskogee, but that he has just recently moved to Muskogee, and that prior to that time, which has only been the last past two months, he has lived in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. Sloan Harbison. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 6th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true, and that he has the identical person named therein as affiant. Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. supplemental petition of MINNIE BOWIE, N^E HATCHER, n£E HARRISON, IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HARBISON FOB THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Minnie Bowie, nee Hatcher, n6e Harrison, and shows that she is 40 years of age, and that she lives at No. 818i South Second Street, Musko- gee, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of her brother, John Harrison, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. 378 INDIAN APPROPETATION BILL. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof^ and that the matters and things contained therein are true. That on the 20th day of December, 1905, she was duly and lawfully married to Mose Bowie, with whom she still lives. That prior to this said marriage she was the legal wife of Henry Thatcher, to which union the following named children were born : .Lou Tipton, age 20 years ; Johnie Hatcher, age ^19 years ; Fannie Hatcher, age 18 years ; Ada Hatcher, aged 17 years ; Manda Hatcher, aged 15 years. That all of said children are alive and all the minors live with applicant at the above-stated place of residence. Petitioner further shows that she, with the other members of her said father's family, were all born and raised on the public domain with all the rights and privileges of other Choctaw Indians ; that they all depended on their said father to enroll the family, which he was slow about doing, and was compelled to make an application in 1891 as a Mississippi Choctaw, which included this applicant and her said family, and that the decision was rendered against them because they could not prove that they had complied with the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830 made between the United States and the Choctaws in Mississippi ; when in truth and in fact this applicant and all of her said family were born in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, and had always lived on the public domain and enjoyed all the rights and privileges of other Choctaw Indians, her said father, F. J. Sloan Harrison, having a1 that time resided in the Choctaw Nation for more than 40 years and had al the time of his death more than 200 acres in cultivation, and as resident Choctaws they were all entitled to enrollment. That her name and the names of her said children appear in the petition of her said brother, John Harrison, at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same. Minnie Bowie (her thumb print). The name of Minnie Bowie was written by me at her request and in her presence, and mark made by her in my presence. Julius Golden, Witness to Marie. Attest : M. M. LiNDLY, Witness to Mark. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 25th day of March, 1915. 1 further certify that I read over the above petition" to the affiant and that shp knew the contents thereof, and that she stated that same was true and that she was the identical person named therein as petitioner. Julius Golden, Notary Puhlio. My commission expires June 2, 1917. supplemental petition of LOU TIPTON, IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HAKP.ISON FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF BT AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Lou Tipton and shows that she is 20 years of age, and that she lives at 705 South Eighth Street, Muskogee, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of John Harrison, her uncle, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and .residence of all the other parties named therein she knows to be true of her own knowledge; that the matters and things thei-ein contained with reference to the ancestors of her said father she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts ; and that she believes them to be true, and so charges the fact to be. Petitioner further shows that she has been a minor during all the enrolling period of her said tribe ever since she was born, and that the rolls thereof were closed by the operation of law long prior to her reaching her majority. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 379 That no proper application was made for lier in due time and that on account of her minority she was precluded from acting ; that she now comes and claims the right due to all minors after they reach their majority to recover what she was deprived of on account of her minority. That her name appears in the said petition of her said uncle at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Lou Tipton (her thumb print). The name of Lou Tipton was written by me at her request and in her pres- ence and mark made by her in my presence. Julius Golden, Witness to Mark. Attest : M. M. LiNDLY, Witness to Mark. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 25th day of March, 191.5. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the afliant and that she knows the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true, and that she was the identical person named therein as petitioner. Julius Golden, Notary Pitblic. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OP FANNIE HATCHEE IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HAEEISON FOB THE ENEOLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Fannie Hatcher and shows that she is 18 years of age and that she lives at No. 818J South Second, Muskogee, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of John Harrison, her uncle, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein she knows to be true of her own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her said parents she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were well and personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be and so charges the fact to he. Petitioner further shows that during the entire enrolling period of her said tribe, since she was born, she was a minor ; that she has just reached her majority, and that the rolls have long since been closed by operation of law ; that at the time of the passing of said law this applicant was old enough to have been enrolled and allotted, but that no proper petition was made for her in time by her said father ; that her said tribe never enrolled her, and the Dawes Commission likewise left her off the rolls, and having reacher her majority she now asks to be restored to the property that she was deprived of while she was a minor. That her name appears in the said petition of her said uncle at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Fannie Hatcher. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 25th day of March, 1915. I fur- ther certify that I read over and fully explained to the affiant the above and foregoing petition and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true and that she was the identical person named therein as petitioner. Julius Golden, Notary PuMio. My commission expires June 2, 1917. 380 INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL. aUPPtEMENTAL PETITION OF LYDIA WILtlAMS IN SUPPOBT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HAEKISON FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAWS BY BLOOD. Comes now Lydia Williams and shows that she is 41 years of age and that she lives at Mead, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian hy birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition ; that the same is shown by the petition of John Harrison, her brother, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained are true. That she has been recognized as a Choctaw Indian ever since she could re- member, having been born and raised in the Choctaw Nation. That on the day of , 1^85, she was duly and lawfully married to Sam Williams, with whom she still lives. That there was born to this union the following named children : Johnson Williams, age 29 years; Jesse Williams, age 27 years; Hattie Robins, age 22 years ; Fannie Thompson, age 20 years ; Roxie Flannigan, kge 18 years ; Btorri- son Williams, age 16 years ; Rosa Williams, age 15 years. That all of the above named children are alive, and that all of them were born and raised in the Choctaw Nation. That applicant further states that she and all of her said family have always been recognized as Choctaw Indians ; that she built her home on the public domain 1 mile northwest of Mead, Okla. That she and her said husband and family cleared up 80 acrose of land and built improvements thereon and lived on same for more than 20 years, when it was allotted away from them. That the above home joined 200 acres that her said father, W. J. Sloan Harrison, put in cultivation, which he lived on until he died. That when she made application for enrollment she was too late to he en- rolled. That she acted as a citizen, was recognized as a Choctaw citizen, and really thought that she had done all that was necessary for the enrollment ol herself and family. That she now prays that her name and the names of her said children, as stated in the petition of her said brother, John Harrison, be placed on the approved roll of Choctaw citizens by blood, and that to them and to each of them be given their distributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians as prayed for in said petition. Lydia Williams (her x mark). State of Oklahoma, County of Bryant, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 26th day of Slarch, 1915. I fur- ther certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true and that she was the identical person named therein as affiant. [SEAL.] G. O. Reves, Notary Puhlio. My commission expires January 25, 1919. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION- OP JOHNSON WILLIAMS IN SUPPOBT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HAERISON FOE THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Johnson Williams and shows that he is 29 years of age, and that he lives at 802 South Eighth Street, Muskogee, Okla., where he has lived for the last past two years; that prior to that time he lived in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, where he was born. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of John Harrison, his uncle, the brother of this applicant's mother, made in his behalf, to which this petition Is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said parents he has INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 381 always been taught were true ; tliat he has also been told that they were true by reliable parties that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that he believes them to be true, and so charges the fact to be. That the reason that his name is not on the final roll of Choctaws is that during the entire enrolling period since he was born he was a minor, and that the roll was closed by operation of law before he reached his majority, although he was old enough to have been enrolled and allotted. That he is therefore deprived of his share of the common property of his tribe of Indians for the sole reason that he was a minor. Wherefore petitioner prays that his name, Johnson Williams, be placed on the approved roll of the Choctaw Nation as prayed for in the said petition of his said uncle, which said petition he hereby ratifies and confirms. Johnson Williams. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this, the 19th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over said petition to affidavit and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OF JESSE WILLIAMS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HAEEISON FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Jesse Williams and shows that he is 27 years of age, and that he lives at 709 South Fourteenth Street, Muskogee, Okla. That he has lived in Musokgee for the last past three years, and that prior to that time he had always lived in the Choctaw Nation, where he was born. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of John Harrison, his uncle, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein, he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matter and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said parents, he has always been taught were true ; that he has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that they were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that he believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That he has been recognized as a Choctaw Indian ever since he could re- member, having been born and raised in the Choctaw Nation. That his name appears in the said petition of his said uncle at his request, and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Jessie Williams. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 18th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. , Notary PuMic. supplement petition of HATTIE ROBBINS, NSE WILLIAMS, IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HARRISON FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOC- TAW INDIANS. Comes now Hattle Robbins and shows that she is 22 years of age, and that She lives at 734 Indianapolis Street, Muskogee, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of John Harrison, to which this petition is attached and made a part. 382 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relation- ship and residence and residence and the relationship of all the other Parues named therein as descendants of the said John Harrison, she knows to pe true of her own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with rei- erence to the ancestors of her said father she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That on the 15th day of October, 1908, she was duly and lawfully married to Louis Robbins, with whom she still lives; that they were married at her home in the Choctaw Nation, and that her said husband brought her to Mus- l^ogee. . , That she has been a recognized Choctaw ever since she could remember, having been born and raised in the Choctaw Nation, on the home of her said mother, Lydia Williams, which she and her husband and her family occupied, and where she lived until it was allotted away from her. That she was a minor during all the years of the. enrolling period of her tribe since she was born, and that long before she reached her majority the rolls were closed by operation of law; that, although she was long past old enough to have been enrolled and allotted, she was neglected by her father, dis- regarded by her tribe, and omitted by the Dawes Commission; that she is therefore deprived of her distributive share of the common property of her said tribe sonely on account of her minority, and she now prays to be restored to the rights then due to her. That her name appears in the said petition of John Harrison, her uncle, at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Hattie Robins. State or Oklahoma, Muslcogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 29th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true and that she v/as the identical person named therein as petitioner. Julius Golden, Notary Publie. My commission expires June 2, 1917. AFFIDAVIT OF PETEE NAIL IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN HAEEISON FOK THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Peter Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 67 years of age, and that he lieves at Wagoner, Okla. That he is well and personally acquainted with all the applicants and know them to be Choctaw Indians by descent, by blood, and by residence. That the applicants are the children of W. J. Sloan Harrison, ' who always claimed to be a half-blood Choctaw Indian. That he lived right close to the line of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations until he died, and that he always lived on a home of his own on the public domain, which he held as a Choctaw Indian. That after allotment this place was allotted to other parties because the Dawes Commission refused to enroll him. All that I know about this that the applicant, W. J. Sloan Harrison, told me that they wanted to enroll him as a freedman and that he refused to accept it and they turned him down. Affiant further states that he knows from other parties that these applicants had beeif living there in the Choctaw Nation a long time before he knew them personally and that he has known them personally for the last 16 years. Peter Nail Chis thumb print). INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 383 The name of Peter Nail was wi-ittfen by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him In my presence. Attest : .Julius Golden, Witness to Mark. M. M. LiNDLY, Witness to' Mark. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 4th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above and foregoing affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. AFFIDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JOHN SLOAN HARRISON FOE THE ENEOLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Now comes Alec Nail, who being first duly sworn on oath states : That he is 72 years of age, that his home is 3 miles west from Boggy Depot, Okla. That he is well and personally acquainted with the applicants and that he has known them in a way all their lives ; that he has not personally known them all the time, but that he did know their father since the convention at Old Boggy Depot, in 1869 ; that they both attended the said convention to- gether and that they have since lived a long distance apart but have met often enough to keep up a personal acquaintance with the father of the said appli- cants. He was W. J. Sloan Harrison. The reason that I kept up so close a personal acquaintance with him was that his trading point was Durant, Okla., and I lived In Durant. That it is for this reason that I knew him so much better than I did his family. Sometimes he had some of them with him and more often he came alone or with just his wife, Mahaley. I have been to his house and know that he had his own home on the public domain, the same as the other Choctaw Indians, and that he lived there until he died. No one ever was heard to dispute his right as a Choctaw Indian and he held land just the same as the other Choctaws and was so recognized. This continued until after allotment, and then he lost his farm because he was not enrolled. All I know about his making an application is what he told me, and that he said he made his application by blood, and for the reason that he had some negro blood in him, the commission wanted to put him on the freedmen roll, and he would not stand for it and the commission denied him. Alec Nail (his thumb print). The name of Alec Nail was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden, toitness to mark. Attest : M. M. LiNDLET, witness to mark. State or Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this, the 4th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above and foregoing petition to the affiant, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true, and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. Julius Golden, Notary Public. My commission expires June 2, 1917. 384 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. STATEMENT OF P. J. HUELEY, ATTOENEY FOE THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re application of John Harrison et al. for enrollment as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. A copy of a petition was served upon me by Mr. Webster Balllnger, an attor- ney at law of Washington, D. C, as attorney for John Harrison et al., who claim right to enrollment as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. In his petition John Harrison alleges that he and his family were applicants for enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation at the time the rolls of citizen- ship were being prepared by the Dawes Commission; that their application was denied for the reason that same was filed " too late." An examination of the record in this case discloses that John Harrison and all the applicants whose names appear in the copy of the petition served upon me by Mr. Balllnger were applicants for enrollment as Mississippi Choctaw citizens of the Choctaw Nation. To show the action taken in the various cases, I am attaching hereto photographic copies of census cards Nos. R2257, R4138, and R3834, marked "Exhibits A, B, and C, respectively. The rights of all the applicants in these cases were considered in case No. 112257. It appears that after full consideration the Commissioners to the Five Civilized Tribes rendered a decision in this case on July 22, 1902. A portion of said decision Is as follows : " It further appears from the evidence submitted in support of said applica- tions and from the records in the possession of the commission, that no one of said applicants has ever been enrolled by the Choctaw tribal authorities as a member of the Choctaw Tribe or admitted to Choctaw citizenship by a duly constituted court or committee of the Cherokee Nation, or by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, or by a decree of the United States court in Indian Territory, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved June 10, 1896 (29 Stats., 321). " It does not appear from the testimony and evidence offered in support of said applications, or from the records in the possession of the commission relating to persons who complied or attempted to comply with the provisions of said article 14 of the treaty of 1830, and to persons who heretofore were claimants thereunder, that the said W. .T. Sloan Harrison, or any of the appli- cants herein, signified (in person or by proxy) to Col. Wm. Ward, Indian agent, Choctaw Agency, an intention to comply with the provisions of said article 14, or presented a clalm»to rights thereunder to either of the commissions author- ized to adjudicate such claims by the acts of Congress approved March 3, 1837" (5 Stats., 180) and August 23, 1842 (Stats., 513). A complete and certified copy of the decision from which the above is quoted is attached hereto, marked Exhibit " C2." The evidence in the above case shows that these applicants claim to have emigrated from Alabama to Texas, and finally emigrated from Texas to Indian Territory. The evidence shows that W. J. Sloan Harrison, the first, is alleged by his descendants to have been a full-blood Choctaw Indian; that his wife, Lydia Harrison, was a negress ; that W. J. Sloan Harrison, the second, was half negro and half Indian ; that his wife, Mahala Harrison, was a negress. The children of W. J. Sloan Harrison, the second, and Mahala Harrison would therefore be three-fourths negro blood. All of the children of this marriage appear to have married negroes. Their children would therefore be seven- eighths negro blood. I am attaching hereto a photographic copy of a diagram showing the 'relationship of the applicants in this case and their alleged degree of Indian blood, same being marked " Exhibit D." The only evidence of Indian blood is contained in the testimony of the chief claimant, who made the uncorroborated statement that W. J. Sloan Harrison, the first, was a Choctaw Indian and resided in Alabama. These applicants claimed as Mississippi Choctaws less than full blood, and as such claimants they were required to prove that their ancestors complied or attempted to com- ply with the requirements of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. This proof they could not furnish, nor could the Indian Office find any evidence in the record that the ancestors of these claimants had ever made any claim to citizen- ship in the Choctaw Nation, or had ever complied or attempted to comply with the requirements of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. There was no credible evidence that the applicants possessed any Indian blood, but if they did possess Mississippi Choctaw blood, as claimed by them, they were not entitled, under the law, to enrollment in the Choctaw Nation for the reason INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 385 that they had no evidence to offer to show that they were Mississippi Clioc- taws, to whom the right to reaffiliate with the Clioctaw Nation west had been reserved by the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. Under these circumstances the commission could not have justly done otherwise than to have rendered a decision denying their application, which decision was, as stated above, rendered on the 22d day of July, 1902. The petition oifered by Mr. Ballinger for John Harrison et al. is at variance with the facts shown by the records of the office in the case in which John Har- rison et al. were applicants for enrollment. The latest petition filed, however, is corroborated by the redoubtable Alec Nail, the old negro who signs his name by marli and who has faithfully served Mr. Ballinger and his associates as a professional witness in the corroboration of the statements taken in most every petition filed by Mr. Ballinger and his associates for persons claiming enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. Alec Nail's affidavit in this case is as follows : " NO. 5. CHOCTAW BY BLOOD. AFFIDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN StrPPOET OF THE PETI- TION OF JOHN HARRISON FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. " Comes now Alec Nail, who, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age ; that his home is 3 miles west from Boggy Depot, Okla. " That he is well and personally acquainted with the aiiplicants and that he has known them, in a way, all their lives ; that he has not personally known them all the time, but that he did know their father since the convention at Old Boggj' Depot, in 1869; that they both attended the said convention to- gether and that they have since lived a long distance apart but have met often enough to keep up a personal acquaintance with the father of the said appli- cants. He was W. J. Sloan Harrison. The reason that I kept up so close a personal acquaintance with him was that his trading point was Durant, Okla., and I lived in Durant " That it is for this reason that I knew him so much better than I did his family. Sometimes he had some of them with him and more often he came alone or with just his wife Mahaley. " I have been to his house and know that he had his own home on the public domain the same as the other Choctaw Indians and that he lived there until he died. " No one ever was heard to dispute his right as a Choctaw Indian and he held land just the same as the other Choctaws and was so recognized. " This continued until after allotment and then he lost his farm because he was not enrolled. All I know about his making an application Is what he told me and that he said he made his application by blood and for the reason that he had some negro blood in him, the commission wanted to put him on the Freedmen roll, and he would not stand for it and the commission denied him. "AiEC Nau, (his thumb print)." " The name of Alec Nail was written by me at his request and in his pres- ence and mark made by him in my presence. " Julius Golden, Witness to mark. "M. M. LiNDLT, Witness to mark." "Attest : " State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: " Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 4th day of March, 1915 ; I further certify that I read over and fully explained the contents of the above .and foregoing affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. " Julius Golden, " Notary Public." ' My commission expires June 2, 1917." Alpc Nail's affidavit in this matter is supported by the affidavit of his brother Peter Nail, who swears as fluently as Alec, and signs his affidavits by mark In testifying before Mr. William L. Bowie, an officer of the Interior 31362—16 25 386 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Department, at Muskogee, Okla., on July 31, 1915, after hearing his affidavit read Alec Nail was asked : "Q. What have you to say about this; do you knovs? these persons? — A. I am better acquainted with them since I have been in Muskogee. The old man was half Indian and half negro. "Q. Old man Harrison claimed to be?— A. Half brother of Robert, William, and John Harrison, and I know them to be Indians and they claimed to be related to them. "Q. Did you know this person who represented himself to be John Harrison named in the application for enrollment? — A. I expect I knew him. "Q. But you can not place him right now? — A. I guess I would know him. "Q. Did you know him before you met him at the time he made this applica- tion? — ^A. Not to have identified him ; I met the old man when I lived at Durant. "Q. You mean these boys' father? — A. Yes, sir. "Q. What was the name of their father? — ^A. John Harrison or Sloan. "Q. You mean his surname was Sloan? — A. No; Harrison. "Q. Did they call him Sloan Harrison? — A. Yes, sir, and sometimes old man Harrison. "Q. Did you know enough about this man Harrison to testify as to who his parents were ? — A. No, sir ; my brother knew him ; ■ he was over here. "Q. Your brother is Peter Nail? — ^A. Yes, sir. "Q. Were you ever at the home of the father? — A. Yes, sir; I have passed there a time or two. "Q. Was you ever at the home of the applicant in this case, John Harrison? — A. No, sir; I don't know whether these young children had any home or not. The Choctaws just recognized them. "Q. You never had then a close personal acquaintance with the father of this applicant? — A. No, sir. "Q. Was this applicant, John Harrison, a negro? — A. Yes, sir; sure. "Q. What is his color? — ^A. About mine, dark bay. "Q. What convention was it that met in 1869 at Boggy Depot? — A. That was when the Government sent Maj. Armstrong out there. "Q. Could you say that you met the father of this applicant at that conven- tion? — A. I don't remember. " Q. You do not remember whether you made such a statement ? — A. No, sir ; I don't. " Q. You do not remember whether the name of the father of these appli- cants was W. J. Sloan Harrison? — ^A. No, sir; I don't know; they claimed to be his children. " Q. You do not really know whether the full and correct name of the Har- rison you know was W. J. Sloan Harrison ; you do not know whether this is his correct name or not? — ^A. No, sir ; I don't ; they are Texas folks. "Q. Texas folks?— A. Yes, sir. " Q. Was the man that you have in mind, as the father of John Harrison, a negro? — ^A. No, sir; kind of an Indian-looking negro — about like my color." It will be noted in the affidavit and the testimony of Alec Nail, and in the affidavit of Peter Nail, that W. J. Sloan Harrison, the second, was a recognized member of the Choctaw Nation, and held land the same as other Choctaws, and enjoyed all the privileges of Choctaw citizenship. At Atoka, Ind. T., on the 28th day of May, 1901, W. J. Sloan Harrison, the second, appeared in person and testified. A part of his testimony is as follows : " Q. Have you ever been admitted to citizenship in the Choctaw Nation by the Choctaw tribal authorities, the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, or by judgment of the United States court in Indian Territory? — A. No, I aint been before them to have anything carried on like that." Again in the same testimony the witness was asked : " Q. Have you ever received any benefits as a Choctaw Indian? — ^A. No; just been working like the rest of them. " Q. Do you know what benefits mean? — ^A. I suppose you mean owning this land and using it. " Q. Or moneys? — A. No, I haven't got any money. "Q. Nor land?— A. No." Again in the same testimony : " Q. Have any of your ancestors ever received any benefits as Chotcaw In- dians?— A. No." This testimony appears in case No. R2257, In re application of W. J. Sloan Harrison, et al. A complete and certified copy of said testimony is attached INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 387 hereto and marked "Exhibit E." This testimony is not only conclusive In snowing that the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes did not err when it denied the rights of citizenship to the applicants In this case, but it also shows that the affidavits of Alec and Peter Nail, submitted by Mr. Ballinger in support of the petition now presented for the claimants, are false. On August 10, 1915, John Harrison, who is now the chief applicant in this case, appeared before Mr. William L. Bowie, an officer of the Interior Depart- ment, and rendered full testimony in regard to his application, a copy of which testimony is attached here and marked " Exhibit F." This testimony is very interesting and shows clearly that the applicant is without legal, equitable, or moral right to enrollment as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation. To show the unreliability of the evidence, I need refer to only one feature. The witness testified as follows : "Q. How many brothers did you say your father had?— A. Two is all that I know. " Q. Name these two again.— A. Robert and William— I don't know for cer- tain, only what I have been taught." He later testifies that it is his understanding that William and Robert Harri- son are half brothers to his father, having the same father and different mothers. The enrollment records in the Indian Office show that the father of Robert and William Harrison was Zadoc Harrison. The records show that Zadoc Harrison was a full-blood Choctaw; that Robert, William, and John Harrison, his sons, who are referred to in these papers, are half Choctaw and half white. The records, when compared with the testimony, show that the claim of relationship to the Harrisons who are now on the rolls, made by these applicants, is a pure fabrication. No such relationship exists. In connection with this petition I refer also to petition No. 26, which is an application made by Angle Flanagan for enrollment as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. This petition was also submitted by Mr. Webster Bal- linger, as attorney for the claimant. Angle Flanagan is a daughter of Annie Ruth, who is shown by " Exhibit D " to be a granddaughter of W. J. Sloan Harrison, the second, and was denied enrollment as a Mississippi Choctaw in the case of W. J. Sloan Harrison, et al, M. C. R. 2257. The facts and argument presented in the John Harrison case are applicable to the petition of this claimant. P. J. Hurley, National Attorney for the Choctato Nation. Chootaio Nation; Sterrett, I. T.; Mississippi Choctaw Indians; field No. R. 2257. (Stamped: Refused. Rejected.) -Relation- ship to person first named. Age. Sex. Blood. Tribal enrollment of parents. Name. Name of father. Name of mother. 1. Harrison W.J.Sloan 65 45 M. F. i I. W. Sloan, Harr ison (dead), claim Choc- taw. George Walker (dead), noncitizen. Lydia Sanders, non- 2. Harrison, Mahala 45 citizen. Jane Walker (dead), noncitizen. Refer to M. C. R.-3832-3833-3834-3835-4H2-4137-413S. Decision rendered July 22, 1902. Decision prepared June 13, 1902 (see testimony of May 23, 1901). Record forwarded the department July 22, 1902. Notice of decision forwarded applicant July 22, 1902. Notice of decision mailed attorneys for Chbctaw and Chickasaw Nations, July 22, 1902. The application of the several persons herein for identification as Mississippi Choctaws refused in the decision in the case of W. J. Sloan Harrison et al., M. C. R. 2257 forwarded the Secretary of the Interior July 22, 1902. Action approved by Secretary of Interior October 23, 1902. Notice ofdepartmental action mailed applicant November 8, 1902. Notice of departmental action forwarded to attorneys for Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations November 8, 1902. 388 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Choctaw Nation; Sterrett, Ind. T.; Mississippi Choctaw Indians; field Na. R. 4IS8. (Stamped: Refused. Rejected.) Relation- ship to person first named. Age. Sex. Blood. Tribal enrollment of parents. Name. Name ol father. Name of mother. 23 16 M. M. i i Stone Harrison, claim Choctaw. No.l Son citizen. citizen. 1 Months. Refer to M. C. R. 2257. Decision prepared June 13, 1902. Decision rendered July 22, 1902. Record forwarded department July 22, 1902 (see testimony of November 21, 1901). Notice of decision forwarded applicant July 22, 1902. Notice of decision mailed attorneys for Choctaw and Chiciasaw Nations July 22, 1902. The application of the several persons herein for identification as Mississippi Choctaws refused in the decision in the case of W. J. Sloan Harrison et al., M. C. R. 2257. I"orwarded the Secretary of the Interior July 22, 1902. Action approved by Secretary of Interior October 23, 1902. Notice of departmental action mailed applicant November 8, 1902. Notice of departmental action forwarded attorneys for Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations November 8, 1902. Stamped: Refused. Rejected. Choctaw Nation; Sterritt, Ind. T.; Mississippi Choctaw Indians; field No. R. SSS/f. Relation- ship to person first named. Age. Sex. Blood. Tribal enrollment of parents. Name. Name of father. Name of mother. 1. Ruth, Annie 34 17 16 14 12 11 8 6 4 1 F. F. F. M. F. F. M. F. F. M. 1 i i 1 i i Sloan Harrison, claim Choctaw. Jim Ruth, noncitizen. do Daugh- ter. ...do Son D a ugh- ter. ...do citizen. 3. Ruth, Ella Do. 4. Ruth, James do. Do 5. Ruth, Angle do Do 6. Ruth, Viola do Do 7. Ruth, George Son D a ugh- ter. ...do do Do 8. Ruth, Louisiana do Do. 9. Ruth, Haley do Do 10. Ruth, John Son .... do Do. Record forwarded department, July 22, 1902. Decision rendered July 22, 1902. RefertoM. C.'R. 2257. Decision prepared June 13, 1902. (See testimony of Oct. 26, 1901.) Notice of decision forwarded appUcant July 22, 1902. Notice of decision mailed attorneys for Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations July 22, 1902. The application of the several persons herein for identification as Mississippi Choctaws refused in the decision in the caseofW. I. Sloan,Harrisonetal.,M.C.R.2257. Forwarded the Secretary of the Interior July 22, 1902. Action approved by Secretary of Interior, Oct. 23, 1902. Notice of departmental action mailed applicant, Nov. 8, 1902. Notice of departmental action forwarded attorneys for Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, Nov. 8, 1902. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 389 Exhibit 02. Depaktment of the Intebior, Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. In the matter of the application of W. J. Sloan Harrison, et al., for identifica- tion as Mississippi Choctaws, consolidating the applications of W. J. Sloan Harrison, et al., M. O. R. 2257; Joe Harrison, et al., M. C. R. 3832; Lydie Williams, et al., M. C. R. 3838; Annie Ruth, et al., M. C. R. 3834; Louisa Hatcher, et al., M. C. R. 3835; Slone Harrison, et al., M. C. R. 4112; Ella Hatcher, et al., M. C. R. 4137 ; John Harrison, et al., M. O. R. 4188. It appears from the record herein that applications for identification as Mississippi Choctaws were made to this commission by W. J. Sloan Harrison for himself; by Joe Harrison for himself and his minor child, Maggie Dell Harrison; by Lydia AVilliams for herself and her eight minor children, John- son, Jesse, Hattie, Finey, Roxana, Rosie, Sloan Harrison, and Mamie Williams ; by Annie Ruth for herself and her nine minor children, Louisa, Ella, James, Angle, Viola, George, Louisiana, Haley, and John Ruth ; by Louisa Hatcher for herself and her three minor children,. Finey, Ada, and Mandy Hatcher; by Sloan Harrison for himself and his two minor children, Charlie, and Randy Harrison ; by Ella Hatcher for herself and her four minor children, Lula, MoUie, Dollie, and Myrtle Hatcher ; by John Harrison for himself and his minor child, Henry Harrison ; and by W. J. Sloan Harrison for the identifi- cation of his wife, Mahala Harrison, as an intermarried Mississippi Choctaw, under the following provision of the act of Congress approved June 28, 1898 (80 Stats., 495) : " Said commission shall have authority to determine the identity of Choctaw Indians claiming rights in the Choctaw lands under article fourteen of the treaty between the United States and the Choctaw Nation, concluded September twenty-seventh, eighteen hundred and thirty, and to that end may administer oaths, examine witnesses, and perform all other acts necessary thereto, and make report to the Secretary of the Interior." It also appears that all of said applicants claim rights in the Choctaw lands under article 14 of the treaty between the United States and the Choctaw Nation, concluded September 27, 1830, by reason of being descendants of one W. J. Sloan Harrison, who is alleged to have been a full-blood Choctaw Indian and to have resided in Mississippi in 1830. It further appears from the evidence submitted in support of said applica- tions, and from the records in the possession of the commission, that no one of said applicants has ever been enrolled by the Choctaw tribal authorities as a member of the Choctaw Tribe, or admitted to Choctaw citizenship by a duly constituted court or committee of the Choctaw Nation, or by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, or by a decree of the United States Court in Indian Territory, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved June 10, 1896 (29 Stats., 321). It does not appear from the testimony and evidence offered in support of said applications, or from the records in the possession of the commission re- lating to persons who complied or attempted to comply with the provisions of said article 14 of the treaty of 1830, and to persons who heretofore were claimants thereunder, that the said W. J. Sloan Harrison, or any of the applicants herein, signified (in person or by proxy) to Col. William Ward, Indian agent, Choctaw Agency, an intention to comply with the provisions of said article 14, or presented a claim to rights thereunder to either of the commissions authorized to adjudicate such claims by the acts of Congress approved March 3, 1837 (5 Stats., 180), and August 23, 1842 (5 Stats., 518). It is therefore, the opinion of this commission that the evidence herein is insuflieient to determine the identity of W. J. Sloan Harrison, Joe Harrison, Maggie Dell Harrison, Lydia Williams, Johnson Williams, Jesse Williams, Hat- tie Williams, Finey Williams, Roxana Williams, Rosie Williams, Sloan Harrison Williams, Mamie Williams, Annie Ruth, Louisa Ruth, Ella Ruth, James Ruth, Angle Ruth, Viola Ruth, George Ruth, Louisiana Ruth, Haley Ruth, John Ruth, Louisa Hatcher, Finey Hatcher, Ada Hatcher, Mandy Hatcher, Sloan Harrison, Charlie Harrison, Randy Harrison, Ella Hatcher, Lula Hatcher, MoUie Hatcher, Dollie Hatcher, Myrtle Hatcher, John Harrison, and Henry Harrison, as Choc- 390 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. taw Indians entitled to riglits in ttie Clioctaw lands under the provisions of said article 14 of the treaty of 1830, and that the applications for their identification as such should be refused, and it is so ordered. It Is the further opinion of the commission that under the provision of law above quoted no person is entitled to identification as a Mississippi Choctaw by marriage, and that the application made by W. J. Sloan Harrison for the identi- fication of his wife, Mahala Harrison, as an intermarried Mississippi Choctaw, should therefore be refused, and it Is so ordered. The Commission to the Five Civilized Teibes. (Signed) Tams Bixbt, Acting . Chairman. (Signed) T. B. Needles, (Signed) C. R. Beeckinkidge, Commissioners. Muskogee, Indian Tebeitokt, July 22, 1902. Dbpaetment of the Inteeiob, Office of Stjpeeintendent foe the Five Civilized Teibes, Muskogee, Okla. This is to certify that I am the officer having custody of the records pertain- ing to the enrollment of the members of the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, Creek, and Seminole Tribes of Indians, and the disposition of the land of said tribes, and that the above and foregoing is a true and correct copy of testimony taken on May 23, 1901, and decision dated on July 22, 1902, in the matter of the application of Sloan Harrison for identification as a Mississippi Choctaw and for his wife as an intermarried Mississippi Choctaw. Gabe E. Parkee, Superntendent. By W. H. Angbll, Clerk in Charge Chootaio Records. July 28, 1915. Exhibit D. Refer to M. C. R. 2257. Sloan Harrison et al. Consolidated case. W. J. Sloan Harrison, full blood ; wife, Lydia Harrison, uegress. Second mar- riage to one Sanders. M. C. R. 2257. W. J. Sloan Harrison, 65, i & Negro ; wife, Mahala Harri- son, part Indian, Negro, & white. Claims for wife. M. C. R. 3832. Joe Harrison, 37, I Negro; wife, Beulah Harrison, negress. M. O. R. 3832. Maggie Dell Harrison, 1. M. C. R. 3833. Lydia Harrison, 35, i, uegress, mar. Sam. Williams, Negro. M. C. R. 3833. Johnson Williams, 20. M. C. R. 3833. Jesse Williams, 13. M. C. R. 3833. Hattie Williams, 11. M. C. R. 3833. Finey Williams, 10. M. C. R. 3833. Roxana Williams, 8. M. C. R. 3833. Rosie Williams, 7. M. C. R. 3833. Sloan H. Williams, 4. M. C. R. 3833. Mamie Williams, 2. M. C. R. 3834. Annie Harrison, 34, i, negress, mar. Jim Ruth, Negro. M. C. R. 3834. Louisa Ruth, 17. M. C. R. 3834. Ella Ruth, 16. M. O. R. 3834. James Ruth, 14. M. C. R. 3834. Angle Ruth, 12. M. C. R. 3834. Viola Ruth, 11. M. C. R. 3834. George Ruth, 8. M. C. R. 3834. Louisiana Ruth, 6. M. C. R. 3834. Haley Ruth, 3. M. C. R. 3834. John Ruth, 1. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 391 M. C. R. 3835. Louisa Harrison, 28, J, mar. Henry Hatcher, dead, Negro. M. C. R. 3835. Finey Hatcher, 6. M. C. R. 3835. Ada Hatcher, 4. M. 0. R. 3835. Mandy Hatcher, 2. M. G. R. 4112. Sloan Harrison, 24, j ; wife, Jlollie Harrison, uegress. M. C. R. 4112. Charlie Harrison, 4. M. O. R. 4112. Randy Harrison, 2. M. C. R. 4137. Ella Harrison, 24, i, mar. Will Hatcher, Negro. M. C. R. 4137. Lula Hatcher, 5. M. C. R. 4137. MoUie Hatcher, 4. M. C. R. 4137. Dollie Hatcher, 2. M. C. R. 4137. Myrtle Hatcher, 9 mo. M. C. R. 4138. John Harrison, 23, i, Negro; wife, Laura Harrison, negress. M. C. R. 4138. Henry Harrison, 6 mo. Exhibit E. Department or the Inteeioe, Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, Atoka, Ind. T., May 23, 1901. In the matter of the application of Sloan Harrison for Identification as a Mississippi Choctaw and for his wife as an intermarried Mississippi Choctaw. SLOAN HARRISON, having been lirst duly sworn, testifies as follows : Examination by the Commission : Q. What is your name? — A. Sloan Harrison. Q. What is your age? — A. Sixty-five. Q. What is your post-office address? — A. Gale, Ind. T. (Now Sterrett.) Q. How long have you lived there? — ^A. Twenty-one years and more. Q. Where did you live before that? — A. I came to the Territory from Texas. Q. What part of Texas? — ^A. Grimes County, Tex. Q. How long did you live in Texas? — A. I don't know; long time — ever since I came south from Alabama — can't tell how many years. Q. Where did you live before you came to Texas? — ^A. Mississippi and Ala- bama; they both adjoin, you know. Q. Which one? — ^A. Alabama. Q. Were you born in Alabama? — A. Yes; bred and born there. Q. Lived there until you came to Texas? — A. Yes. Q. And from Texas you came to the Indian Territory? — A. Yes. Q. What is your father's name? — A. Sloan Harrison. Q. Is he living? — A. He is dead. Q. What is your mother's name? — A. Lydle Sanders. Q. Is she living? — A. Yes. ■ Q. Through which one of your parents do you derive your Choctaw blood? — A. I just claim I am a Choctaw. Q. Was your father or your mother a Choctaw? — A. My father; my mother was not a Choctaw Indian. Q. How much Choctaw blood do you claim?— A. I claim the full right from him. Q. Was he a full-blood ?— A. Yes. Q. How much would that make you? — A. That would be one-half, wouldn't it? Q. What was your mother? — A. She was colored. Q. Was she ever a slave? — A. Yes. Q Has your father, through whom you claim your right to identification as a Mississippi Choctaw, ever been recognized in any manner or enrolled as a member of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians by either the Choctaw tribal authori- ties or the authorities of the United States?— A. I don't know, you know. Q. He never was enrolled in the Indian Territory? — A. No; he died back there in their country. Q Are you married?— A. Me— yes. q" What is your wife's name?— A. Mahala Harrison. 392 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. Q. Do you make any claim for her? — A. Tes. Q. How do you claim for her — is she Indian? — A. Her mother was Indian herself and grandmother. Q. Were they Choctaws? — A. I don't know whether they were Ohoctaws or Chickasaws, their part ; I know my part Is Ohoctaw. Q. You claim for her, then, because she married you? — A. Yes. Q. When were you married to Mahala Harrison? — A. I forget how many years I have been married now. Q. Can't you tell about how many years? — A. Yes; about 40 years old. Yes, maybe more, I recollect it's so far back. Q. Were you married before the war? — A. Yes, then, before the war. Q. What was your wife's age? — A. About 45; I am uneducated; don't know exactly. Q. What was her father's name? — A. George Walker. Q. Is he living? — A. Dead. Q. What was her mother's name? — A. Jane Walker. Q. Is she living? — ^A. She is dead. Q. Is your wife a white woman? — A. No; she is colored. Q. She makes no claim to Indian blood? — A. Only by her mother. Q. What was her mother ? — A. Indian ; her mother and grandmother, both. Q. What kind of Indian did they claim to be? — A. They know more than I do, both ; she alnt putting in any claim. Q. What Indian blood does your wife claim to have? — A. I don't know whether it is Ohoctaw or Chickasaw. Q. Her mother, then, was one or the other, and you don't know which? — ■ A. No. Q. Have you any children in your family under 21 years of age • and un- married for whom you desire to make application now? — A. No, all mine are married. Q. You are making this application for yourself alone? — A. Yes; for me and my wife and my children. Q. You are making this just for yourself and wife? — A. Yes. Q. Did you obtain a license to marry? — A. Yes. Q. Were you married by an ordained minister or by an official authorized to perform the marriage ceremony? — A. By a minister. Q. Have you your marriage license and certificate, and do you desire to offer .same In evidence? — A. They are recorded in the courthouse. It will be necessary for the commission to be supplied with evidence of your marriage with Mahala Harrison in support of your claim for her. Q. Is your name on any of the tribal rolls of the Choctaw Nation in the Indian Territory? — A. I don't know. Q. Have you ever made application to the Choctaw tribal authorities in the Indian Territory to be enrolled as a member of that tribe? — A. I have been down there with them — never got to them — stayed in Durant four days. Q. You are talking about the commission now? — A. Yes. Q. Have you ever made application to the Choctaw tribal authorities? — A. No. Q. Did you, or any one for you, in 1896, make application to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for citizenship in the Choctaw Nation, under the act of Congress of June 10, 1896? — A. I don't know anything about that. Q. That was about five years ago; did you make application then? — A. Well, that's the time — no if s not at Durant — that is all I know ; this one at Durant. Q. But you did not make application in 1896? — A. No; you see I am unedu- cated. Q. Have you ever been admitted to citizenship in the Choctah Nation by the Chocktaw tribal authorities, the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, or by judgment of the United States Court in Indian Territory? — A. No, I aint been before them to have anything carried on like that. Q. Have you ever made application prior to this time to either the Choctaw tribal authorities or the authorities of the United States to be admitted or en- rolled as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — A. No, I never. ' Q. Is this the first application you have made of any description? — A. Yes; I have tried before, you know, but it aint done any good. Q. When you say that you were before the commissioner with the commission at Durant, do you mean that you were just up there and listening, or do you mean that you were sworn and examined and a record made of it? — A. I aint been sworn, but I just asked questions and wanted to find out. INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 393 Q. You never were sworn and put on the stand and asked questions like now? — A. No. Q. Is it now your purpose to malje application for identification as a Missis- sippi Choctaw? — A. Yes. Q. Do you claim your rights as beneficiaries under the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830?— A*. I don't know that 1430. Q. Article 14 of the treafef of 1830 is as follows : " Each Choctaw head of a family being desirous to remain and become a citizen of the United States shall be permitted to do so by signifying his Intention to the agent within six months from the ratification of this treaty, and he or she shall thereupon be entitled to a reservation of one section of six hundred and forty acres of land, to be bounded by sectional lines of survey ; in like manner shall be entitled to one- half that quantity for each unmarried child which is living with him over ten years of age, and a quarter section of laud to such child as may be under ten years, to adjoin the location of the parent. If they reside upon said lands intending to become citizens of the States for five years after the ratifica- tion of this treaty, in that case a grant in fee simple shall issue. Said reser- vation shall include the present improvement of the head of the family or a portion of it. Persons claiming under this article shall not lose the privilege of a Choctaw citizen, but, if they ever remove are not to be entitled to any portion of the Choctaw annuity." Do you claim under that article of that treaty? — ^A. Yes, I claim it. Q. Have you ever received any benefits as a Choctaw Indian? — A. No; just been working like the rest of them. Q. Do you know what benefits means? — A. 1 suppose you mean owning this land and using it. Q. Or moneys? — A. No. I haven't got any money. Q. Nor land?— A. No. Q. Are you living on land in the Territory now? — A. Yes. Q. How much land do you claim? — A. Where I am I am claiming 160 acres. Q. Have any of your ancestors ever received any benefits as Choctaw In- dians? — A. No. Q. What was the name of your ancestor or ancestors who, your fore-parents, your father or mother, grandfather or grandmother, who were residents of the old Choctaw Nation in Mississippi or Alabama and recognized members of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians in 1880 when the treaty of Dancing Babbit Greek was entered into between the United States and the Choctaw Tribe of Indians? — A. I reckon at that time I was too young to know anything about it. Q. Well, was your father living in Mississippi or Alabama at that time? — A. Yes, I reckon that is where he died. Q. Well, was he living there in 1830?— A. I don't know what number that was neither. Q. Well, that is a little over 70 years ago?— A. I don't know. Q. Did you ever hear that your father was living in Mississippi five years before you were born?— A. He was living there then; my mother told me so; she knows about that. . Q. Have you any evidence showing that such ancestor was a recognized member of the Choctaw tribe of Indians at that time— that is, have you any evidence to prove that your father was a Choctaw Indian and known as such by the Choctaw Indians themselves in Mississippi ?— A. I know plenty of them but I can't find them. . . , Q. Did your father, if a Choctaw Indian, remove from the territory occupied by the old Choctaw Nation in Mississippi or Alabama to the present Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory, at the time of the removal of the other members of the Choctaw tribe, from 1833 to 1938?— A. I guess he was dead then. Q. He did not come West?— A. No; he died there. Q If he did not remove with the other members of the tribe, did he, within six months after the ratification of the treaty of 1830, signify to the Upited States agent to the Choctaw Tribe of Indians in Mississippi, his intention to remain in Mississippi and become a citizen of the United States? — A. I didn't know that there was anything of this kind in them days, you know. Q Did he go to the Indian agent in Mississippi, Col. Ward, and tell him that he intended to stay there, and take laud and become a citizen of the United States' A I don't know anything about that. 6 D'id any of your ancestors ever claim or receive any land in Mississippi as beneficiaries under the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830?— A. If I 394 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. have land by my Daddy's side? I know he got land there; my father was; he is dead, but he got land there. , Q. Did he get it from the Government?— A. He got it like the balance; dont know whether he got it that way. Q. Who owns the land now that he used to have in Mississippi? — A.. I reckon it is there now. Q. Are there any additional statements that you^desire to make novir in sup- port of this application ; that is, is there anything more that you want to say ? — A. I claim that I have a right to get land if it is respected. Q. Have you any documentary evidence, affidavits, written evidence of any description, copies of records, deeds of patents, or any proper papers showing that any of your ancestors were recognized members of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians in Mississippi in 1830, or that they ever complied or attempted to comply with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830, or that they ever received any benefits under that article of that treaty? — ^A. That is something I don't get on to. ' , Q. Are there any papers that you want to offer now to the commission to file in support your application? — A. Yes. Petition of W. J. Sloan Harrison offered in evidence by applicant, marked " Exhibit A," filed and made a part of the record in this case ; affidavit of Joseph Davis, offered in evidence, marked " Exhibit B," filed and made a part of the records in this case ; affidavit of Lydia Sanders offered in evidence by applicant, marked " Exhibit C," filed and made a part of the records in this case. Q. Do you want more time to file additional evidence? — A. Yes. (Thirty days' time is allowed applicant in which to file any more additional evidence in support of his application.) The decision of the commission as to your application for identification as a Mississippi Choctaw, and for your wife as an intermarried Mississippi Choctaw, will be determined at the earliest possible date, and report of same made to the Secretary of the Interior, conformable to the provisions of the twenty-first section of the act of Congress of June 28, 1898, and a copy of the same will be mailed to you at your post-office address as given by you in your testimony. This applicant has slight appearance of being Indian ; is dark skinned ; has high cheek bones, straight nose, but his hair is slightly curly at the ends. Henry G. Hains, being duly sworn, on his oath states that as stenographer to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes he reported in full all proceed- ings had in the above-entitled cause on May 22, 1901, and that the above and foregoing is a full, true, and correct transcript of his stenographic notes In said cause on said date. [SEAL.] Henky G. Hains. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 15th day of July, 1901. (Signed) D. H. Linebaugh, Notary Public. Exhibit F. Department of the Intekioe, Office of Supekintbndent, Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Olcla., August 10, 1915. In the matter of the application for the enrollment of John Harrison as a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation. JOHN HARRISON, being first duly sworn by William L. Bowie, Deputy Clerls of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, on oath testified as follows : Examination by Wtlhaic L. Boavie on behalf of the Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes : Q. State your name. — A. John Harrison. Q. State your age. — ^A. 37. Q. Where do you live? — A. Live in the Cherokee Nation, Keefeton. Q. How far from Keefeton? — A. One and one-half miles. Q. What is your occupation? — A. Farming. INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 395 Q. You have made application for enrollment as an Indian citizen? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Before whom did you make this application? — A. I have forgotten the man's name; I can't call his name. His office is down on the second floor, though. Q. Do j'ou remember the number of the office? — A. No, sir; I don't. Q. Is there more than one person engaged in that business ? — A. No, sir ; there was just one. Q. A white man? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the occupation of that man? — A. I don't know, sir; the only thing I seen him doing was taking applications. Q. Applications for enrollment? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know whether his name was Lindly? — ^A. I think that Is his name. Q. How did you happen to go to Mr. Llndly's office to make application for enrollment? — A. I just heard of him being here for that purpose from other people, so I just went. Q. What was told you exactly about his business? — ^A. Well, I don't know, sir; I can't tell you. Q. Were you told that he was In the Government service? — ^A. I don't know whether he was in the Government service or not. Q. What was your belief about it when you went to him ; did you go to him under the impression that he was a Government man? — A. Yes, sir ; I think that is what I understood. Q. You understood that before you went to him ? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he give you to understand that he was In the Government service? — A. I never asked him. Q. Did he say anything to you that led you to believe that he was in the Government service? — A. He asked me after I made my statement to him If T J>QfJ 'WitllGSSGS Q. What did you tell him?— A. I told him I had. Q. What witnesses did you tell him you had? — A. Alec Nail. Q. Anyone else? — ^A. Him and his brother. Q. What is his brother's name? — A. Peter Nail. Q. Where does Peter live? — ^A. At Wagoner. Q. Did you talk with Alec Nail before you saw Mr. Lindly? — A. Why, no, sir ; I didn't have no talk with him until I came up here. Q. You saw Mr. Lindly first before you talked with Alec Nail? — A. I saw Alec Nail in the office up here. Q. Did you talk with Mr. Lindly before you talked with Alec Nail ; answer • yes or no? — ^A. Let me see ; I want to tell the truth about it. Yes, sir. Q. You talked with Alec first? — ^A. I talked with Lindly first. Q. Well, how did you come to tell Jiim that you had Alec for a witness? — A. I knew that he knew my father. Q. Had you seen Alec Nail ; how did you know he was here? — A. You mean here In town? Q. Yes. — ^A. I didn't know he was in town at the time until I sent after Peter. Q. bid you talk with Peter before you talked to Mr. Lindly? — A. No, sir; I sent up for him. Q. Who told you Peter was in Wagoner? — A. I knew he was there; I had been in Wagoner. Q. Did you talk with him any before you talked with Mr. Lindly?— A. No, sir. Q. What did Mr. Lindly tell you he would charge you for putting in this application for you? — A. He didn't say he would charge anything. Q. Did he say there would be no cost connected with it? — A. He said I would have to pay all" the notary fees and the witness fees. Q. What did he say the notary and witness fees would amount to? — ^A. He didn't say, but I knew what I would pay. Q. Did he send you to some one else after you talked with him? — A. No, sir. q! Did he take your testimony himself? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You did not talk with a colored man named Nelson Durant? — ^A. No, sir ; he was not in when I put in my application. I don't know him. Q All the conversation you had, then, In this office about this matter was with Mr. Lindly?— A. Yes, sir. „ . . .. .^ „. ., 6 How much did you pay your witnesses?— A. I paid them $1 a day. q! How many days did it take?— A. He was up here two days before they came to my case. 396 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Q. What one was that? — ^A. Alec and Peter both. Q. Xou gave them $1 a day each? — A. Each; yes, sir. Q. So that was $4 for two days? — A. Yes, sir. Q. How much did the notary public charge you? — A. Fifty cents. Q. Fifty cents a piece for your papers? — A. I paid him 50 cents. Q. For all the work that he did? — ^A. No, sir ; for mine. . Q. For your application? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What did you pay him for executing this affidavit? — A. Fifty cents a piece, I believe. Q. How much did you pay him altogether? — A. $1.50, I think. Q. Two affidavits?— A. Three. Q. Did some of your sisters come up here and make affidavit? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you present when they were here? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You do not know how much they paid? — A. No, sir; I don't know. They didn't tell me. Q. Did you promise to pay anything more if your application went through all right? — A. Yes, sir ; I promised to pay them for the expense. Q. How much? — A. I thing I promised to pay them $100. Q. Who did you promise to pay this to? — A. Alec and Peter Nail. Q. Did Mr. Lindly exact any promise from you of that nature? — A. No, sir. Q. Well why did you think you had to pay Alec and Peter Nail such an amount of money for their work? — ^A. I jest agreed to give them that for their trouble. Q. Did you not pay them for their trouble? — A. 1 paid them $1 a day. Q. Did they do anything except act as your witnesses? — A. No, sir. Q. Why did you think you had to pay them more? — A. I thought they de- served It. Q. Why did you think they deserved $50.00 apiece? — A. Because they were old men. Q. You do not mean to say that you Intend to give $50.00 to all the old men? — A. No, sir; Mr. Nail is old and feeble and he deserved something. Q. What was the name of your father? — A. Sloan Harrison. Q. The name of your mother? — A. Mahala Harrison. Q. What Indian blood do you claim to be? — A. One-fourth. Q. What tribe?— A. Choctaw. Q. From which side do you get your Indian blood? — A. From my father. Q. Is all your Indian blood from your father's side? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What degree of blood was your father? — A. He was said to be one-half blood. Q. From whom did he obtain this blood, from his father or mother? — A. His father. Q. Of what degree of blood was his father? — A. He was said to be a full blood. Q. That is yoiir grandfather on your father's side? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What was his name?-^A. Well, I don't know. They say my father was named after him, Sloan Harrison. Q. You think it is the same name? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Of what blood was your mother? — A. She was colored. Q. Altogether colored? — A. I guess so, I don't know. Q. Do you know of what blood your father's mother was, your grandmother on your father's side? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You do not know whether she was of negro blood ? — A. No, sir ; I don't know. I don't know whether she had negro at all or not. Q. Did your father have any brothers? — A. He was supposed to have from -what I have always been taught. Q. Give the names of your father's brothers? — A. Half brothers is all. Q. Do you know their names? — ^A. I think one was Robert. Q. Kobert Harrison? — A. Yes, sir; and William. Q. Is that all? — A. I don't know whether that is all or not. Q. Were they your father's full brothers? — A. No, sir; half brothers. Q. Different mother? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Of what blood was the mother of those two boys, do you know? — A. No, sir ; I don't ; I don't know any thing about them. Q. Did your father have any sisters? — A. I don't know, sir. Q. Was your father enrolled as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation ? — ^A. I don't know whether he was or not, he used to own land down there before allotment. Q. When did he die?— A. 1912. INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 397 Q. After allotment? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Never received an allotment of land? — A. No, sir. Q. Your mother was not a freed woman? — ^A. No, sir; I don't think she was. Q. She never received an allotment? — ^A. No, sir; not that I know of. Q. Was your father's father enrolled as a member of any of the tribes? — A. I don't know, sir ; I couldn't tell you that. Q. Do you know whether your father's half brothers that you have named were enrolled or not? — A. No, sir; I don't think so. Q. Now name your sisters? — A. Fannie Williams, Anna Ruth, Mollie Jones, Ella Hatcher, and Minnie Bowie. Q. Is that all? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Are all those sisters living? — ^A. Yes, sir; I guess so. Q. Name your living brothers. — A. Joe Harrison, Solan Harrison, and John Harrison. Q. Have you any sisters dead? — A. No, sir. Q. Any brothers dead?— A. Well, I have one brother that is dead, but he died when he was little. Q. What is his name? — A. I think they called him Marster. Q. Are all these sisters full sisters? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Are your brothers full brothers? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was your father married more than one time? — A. No, sir. Q. When did your mother die? — A. She died in 1908. Q. Did you father and mother live together up until their death ? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know when they were married? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know whether they were married by ceremony ? — A. No, sir ; I couldn't tell you. . Q. Do you know whether your father applied for an allotment? — ^A. Yes, sir; I think he did. Q. Before the Dawes Commission? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. What do you know about that exactly ? — A. I don't know ; I couldn't tell you anything about it. Q. Did you ever look it up or have it looked up? — A. We got his application up in the office. Q. You have it? — ^A. No, sir; I haven't got it. Q, Well, the question I asked was. Did you ever look it up? Did you ever see these papers or have them examined to find out what action was taken concerning his application? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Was not this application of his rejected by the Dawes Commission? — A. I think it was ; I am not sure. Q. Do you know upon what grounds that application was rejected? — A. No, sir. Q. Was your father ever a recognized citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — ^A. Yes, sir ; he used to be down there. Q. He was? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Who was he recognized by ? Was he ever on any of the rolls of the Choc- taw Nation? — ^A. Not that I know of; I couldn't tell you. Q. What makes you think he was a recognized citizen? — ^A. There are lots of the old ones down there that say he was a Choctaw. Q. Did he vote as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — A. I don't know, sir; I suppose he did. Q. You don't know? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You do not know whether he enjoyed any other rights in the Choctaw Nation? — ^A. No, sir ; I don't know. Q. Where were you born? — ^A. I was born in the Choctaw Nation. Q. Where exactly? — ^A. Close to Carriage Point. Q. Where is that close to? — -A. Four miles southwest of Dewey. Q. Were you raised there? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. How old were you when you left that vicinity? — ^A. When I left that part of the country down there? Q. Yes.— A. I left there in 1908. Q. Had you ever moved away from there prior to 1908? — ^A. Yes, sir; I have traveled around. Q. How long did you remain away on these travels? — ^A. Sometimes 2 or 3 months. Q. Sometimes 2 or 3 years?— A. No, sir. Q. Ever stay away as long as a year? — ^A. No, sir. 398 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Q. Where did you go? — A. Up in Kansas, St. Louis, and Kansas Oity. Q. Wliat did you do in Kansas City and St. Louis? — ^A. Worljed. Q. At what occupation? — ^A. I worked for the Wabash. Q. When was this? — ^A. That's been since I have been up here. Q. I mean when you were in the Choctaw Nation? — A. I was not up there when I was down there. Q. Do you liuow where your father was born? — A. He was born in Mississippi. Q. Do you know when lie came to this country? — A No sir, I don't. Q. When he left Mississippi where did he go? — A. Came to the Indian Terri- tory, I suppose. Q. What Nation?— A. Choctaw. Q. Have you any understanding upon the subject as to when he left Missis- sippi? — A. I don't think I can say. Q. When he applied for enrollment did he apply as a Mississippi Choctaw? — A. I can't tell you. Q. You do not know whether he applied for enrollment as a Mississippi Choctaw or not? — A. No, sir. Q. Are you married? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When were you married and to whom? — ^A. I married in 1901. Q. What is the name of your wife? — ^A. Laura, used to be Laura Robbins. Q. Where were you married? — A. On Blue. Q. In 1901? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where is Blue located? — A. North of Durant. Q. In the Choctaw Nation? — ^A. Yes, sir.- Q. Were you married by ceremony? — ^A. Yes, sir, license. Q. Of what blood is your wife? — ^A. She is colored. Q. What Is her color? — A. She is brown skin, near my color. Q. Have you ever been to school? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Can you write your name? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you learn to write your name? — A. Just doing it by practice. Q. You have always passed as a colored man, lived around colored people? — A. Well, I used to be classed as a half blood. Q. That is what you call yourself you mean? — A. Yes, sir. Q. But you have always lived with colored people? — ^A. Yes, sir; after the country got settled up. Q. How many brothers did you say your father had? — A. Two is all that I know. Q. Name those brothers again. — A. Robert and William. I don't know for certain only what I have been taught. Q. Do you know whether your father had any other name than Sloan? — A. Why yes, sir ; lots of times they called him Henry but that was just a given name. Q. What name was he commonly known by, Henry? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Generally called Henry? — ^A. Sometimes he was called Henry. Q. You say he had a half brother named William? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Same mother and same father? — A. I don't know; I suppose same father. Q. Did you ever know William? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Ever see him? — ^A. If I did I don't know it. Q. How about Robert? — A. I don't know him. Q. You do not know then whether William or Robert is living? — A. No, sir; I don't. Q. You say you do not know whether they were enrolled? — ^A. No, sir; I don't know. Q. In this application that you made before Mr. Lindly, sworn to before Julius Golden, I will ask you to identify your signature as it appears there attached to the affidlvit? — A. Yes, sir. Q. In this application you state that your father had a brother named Wil- liam H. Harrison, whose name appears on the approved roll opposite No. 7663 ; how about this statement ; do you know as a matter of fact whether the person who is enrolled opposite this number, 7663, under the name of William H. Har- rison, is a brother of your father? — A. Only what I ha^e been told. Q. Who told you that this person on the roll at No. 7663 is a brother of your father? — A. I don't know any thing about the number, I didn't testify to that. Q. You did not understand, then, that you were testifying that the person borne on the rolls under this number was your father's brother ; you do not know that to be a fact? — A. No, sir ; I don't know. INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 399 Q. You do not know that a person borne on the rolls of citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation opposite No. 12175, under the name of Robert Harrison, is a brother of your father?^A. No sir, I don't know. Q. Who identified these persons on the rolls? Who found these names on the rolls, did Lindly look them up? — A. I don't know whether he did or not. Q. Who wrote this affidavit?— A. Mr. Lindly wrote it ofC. Q. Did he look these roll numbers up? — ^A. Not that I know of. • Q. Who did? — ^A. I don't know, sir. Q. You do not know? — A. No, sir, I don't. Q. How long have you known Peter Nail? — A. I have been knowing Peter Nail Q. When did you first meet him personally? — ^A. Been about 4 years ago when I met him personally. Q. Where did you first meet him? — ^A. At Wagoner. Q. That is since you have lived up here in this country? — A. Yes sir, I got acquainted with Alec at Durant. Q. When was it that you first met Alec? — A. I can't tell you what year that was, it was several years ago. Q. You are positive iyou met him at Durant? — A. Yes sir. Q. Just met him one time? — A. No sir, I have met him more than one time at Durant. Q. Where did Alec Nail live when you met him in Durant? — A. Around Durant. Q. As a matter of fact I think he testified that he had been living around Boggy Depot. — -A. Yes sir, that .Is where he used to live when he came down to my father's farm. Q. Where was your father's farm? — ^A. Kight on the line of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nation. Q. Exactly how far from the nearest railroad station? — ^A. The nearest rail- road station was close to Kay. Q. Kay is the station below Durant. — A. Yes sir, 5 miles below Durant. Q. Who did your father rent from? — ^A. He didn't rent from anyone at the time. Q. What place did he live on? — A. He lived on a place of his own, he called it his own. Q. That was before allotment? — ^A. Yes sir. Q. You were an applicant for enrollment before the Dawes Commission be- fore the rolls were closed? — A. Yes sir. Q. Were you denied the right to enrollment as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation? — ^A. We just came here at Muskogee before the Dawes Commission and gave in our names. Q. I asked you if you were denied enrollment, were you enrolled or refused enrollment? — ^A. Refused. Q. Why? — ^A. I don't know, I can't tell you that part of it, I don't know. Q. Did you tell Mr. Lindly that you were refused enrollment?— A. Yes sir, I did. Q. Did you tell Mr. Lindly why you were refused enrollment? — ^A. No sir, I don't think I did. Q. Did you tell Mr. Lindly that all the decision you received from the Dawes Commission was the "too late" decision? — ^A. I don't remember. Q. You did not tell Mr. Lindly that?— A. I don't remember. Q. Would you tell Mr. Lindly some thing that was not true? — ^A. No sir. Q. Well it is not true, is it? — A. I don't know. Q. You just stated to me that you did not know why you were refused enrollment? — ^A. No sir, I don't know. Q. You do not mean to state now that you were refused because you were too late?— A. No sir, I don't know. Q. Did you ever receive a copy of the decision of the Dawes Commission? — A. No sir. Q. Rejecting the enrollment of your father? — A. Not myself but my father did I think. Q. Did you see a copy of that decision?— A. No sir. Q. Do you know if the Commissioner to the Five Civilized Tribes rendered a decision upon your father's application for enrollment, dated July 22, 1902, rejecting his application?— A. No sir, not that I know of. Q. Did your father ever apply for enrollment as a freedman? — A. No sir, I don't think he did. 400 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Q. Do you know whether he was ever advised to apply for enrol Im*'"' JiR a freedman? — ^A. I think he was, I heard him say he was. ^ Q. Do yon know whether he had any rights as a freedman? — A. No sir, ii(, says that he didn't, he never was a freedman. _ v t ti • i Q. Do you know how old a man your father was when he died.' — A. i tinnu he was 78 or 79. Q. Was he a slave? — A. He says he was not. Q. Was your mother a slave? — ^A. I don't know whether she was or not, I don't remember anything about it. Q. Was your mother a State woman? — A Yes sir. (Witness excused.) Lee G. Grubbs, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he reported the proceedings in the above-entitled case on August 10, 1915. and that the above and foregoing is a true and correct transcript of his stenographic notes taken thereof. Lee G. Gkubbs. Subscribed and sworn to before. me this 21st day of August, 1915. [seal.] R- P- Harrison, Cleric. By A. G. McMillan, Deputy. PETITION NO. 6. Statement of P. J. Hurley, Attorney toe the Choctaw Nation, In re petition of Malissa Marcy, nee Carroll, nee Birdsong, for the enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choc- taw Nation. PETITION OF MALISSA MAKCY, NEB CARROLL, N]6e BIRDSONG, FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HERSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Malissa Marcy, nge Caroll, nee Birdsong, and shows that she is 47 years of age and that she lives at Boley, Okla.. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, residence, and by recognition ; that she is the daughter Adaline Birdsong, n6e Sanders, who was about three-quarters Choctaw Indian by blood. That the father was a half-blood Choctaw, but was placed on the Freedman roll over his protest; his name was Willie Birdsong, That she was born in the Choctaw Nation near the Old Harris Perry and grew up in the Choctaw Nation ; that on the 23d day of December, 1885, she married Tony Carroll, who lived across the river in Texas, and that he took her over into Texas and that she lived for the next 11 years on both sides of the river, part of the time in Texas and part of the time in the Nation. Then we moved to Lake West, in the Choctaw, and lived there for about 6 years; since which date I have lived at different places both in and out of the Choctaw Nation. That there was born to this union the following named children : Joda Carroll, aged 29 years, died March, 1910 ; Maggie Carroll, aged 27 years, died August 14, 1910; Delvan Carroll, aged 24 years, living; Effie Carroll, aged 23 years, living, now Molton ; Willie May Carroll, aged 21 years, living ; Lillle Carroll, aged 18 years, died September, 1910. That after the death of Tony Carroll, September, 1914, which was after they had been divorced, she married William Marcy, with whom she still lives; this was July 8, 1899. That there was bom to this union one child, to wit, Devoy Marcy, aged 14 years. That, up till shortly before her marriage to William Marcy, she was still living in the Choctaw Nation ; that is, applicant had no other home until after she married Marcy and took her to Texas and since that time she has lived at different places, mostly out of the Choctaw Nation. That during the time that I should have enrolled myself and family or looked after them, my family was sick and I could not go, and I just sent to the Dawes Commission a list of the children, their ages, and everything, and thought that that was sufficient ; when I got able to go the roll was closed and commission never answered my letter. That this was all that she was able to do and all that she could do. 1ND1A24 APPEOPRIATION BILL. 401 Wherefore petitioner prays that her name, Mallssa Slarcy, and the names of her said children, Joda, Maggie, Del\an, Willie May, and Llllle Carroll and Bffie Melton, n6e Carroll, aud Devoy Marcy be placed on the approved roll of Choctaw Indians by blood, and that to them and to each of them be given their distributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians, the same as is given to all other svich citizens so enrolled. Malissa Mabcy. State of Oklahoma, Aliiskogee County, ss: Malissa Marcy, being first duly sworn, on oath states that she is the above named Malissa Marcy ; that she has read over the above and foregoing petition and knows the contents thereof, aud that the matters and things therein contained are true. Malissa Mabcy. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 16th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true. [SEAL.] Julius Golden, Notary PuMic. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) ATFIDAVIT of ALEC NAIL IN SUPPOBT OF THE PETITION OF MALISSA MABCY FOE THE EKEOLLMENT OF HEESELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that lie is 72 years of age and that his post office is Boggy Depot, Okla. That he knows the applicant, but that he has not known her very long ; that he was well and personally acquainted with her father and mother. Her father was Willie Birdsong, a half-blood Choctaw Indian that was placed on the freedman roll over his protest ; that her mother was Adaline Sanders, before she married Willie Birdsong, and that she was a three-quarter Choctaw Indian by blood. That they both lived in what was old ScuUyville County, now Le Flore, near the line of Arkansas. That all of the Sanders were all recognized Choctaw Indians; that William Sanders was the brother of her said mother, Adaline Birdsong, nee Sanders. That he does not know any of the applicant's family. • Alec Nail (his thumb print). The name of Alec Nail was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 16th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) affidavit of W. M. JAMES IN SUPPOET OF THE PETITION OF MALISSA MABCY FOE THE ENBOLLMENT OF HEESELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 70 years of age and that he lives at Beeland, Okla. „ . ..v, r.u ^ ivt *• ^v. * That he first knew the applicant near Boswell in the Choctaw Nation ; that she is the daughter of Malissa Birdsong, who was Malissa Sanders before she married Birdsong. 31362—16 26 402 INDIAN APPEOPEIAXION BILL. That the said Malissa Sanders was a Choctaw Indian by blood and was always considered three-quarters; that I also knew her brother, WiUiani ders, and the whole Sanders family, and they were all Choctaw Indians. When I first knew them they were living on Sans Bios Kiver, but wnen i last knew them they were living down on Blue River. tctit t!- a The mother died down there on Blue River ; I knew the father, WiUie Jiira- song, but don't know where he died; he was a half-breed Choctaw who was placed on the freedman roll over his protest. That he was well acquainted with the first husband of the applicant. His name was Tony Carroll and they separated. I knew about the family, but not well enough to identify them. I know the man she lives with now at Boley, Okla. ; his name William Marcy. They have a boy that lives with them now about 14 years old. W. M. James (his thumb print). The name of W. M. James was written by me at his request and in his presence and mark made by him in my presence. • Julius Golden. State or Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 16th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Fublic. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) STATEMENT OF P. J. HUllLEY, ATTOENEY FOK THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re petition of Malissa Marcy, nfie Carroll, nge Birdsong, for the enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The foregoing petition of Malissa Marcy, n6e Carroll, nge Birdsong, for en- rollment of herself and others as citizens hy blood of the Choctaw Nation, was served upon me by Mr. Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law of Washing- ton, D. C. Mrs. Marcy claims to be a Choctaw Indian by blood. She does not reside in the Choctaw Nation, but resides at the town of Boley in the Creek Nation. She did not make application, nor did any of the members of her family make application, for enrollment during the time that the rolls of citizenship of the Choctaw Nation were being prepared. As her excuse for not having made application during the time that the rolls were being made she states : " That during the time I should have enrolled myself and family, or looked after them, my family was sick, and I could not go and I just sent to the Dawes Commis- sion a list of the children, their ages and everything and thought that that was sufficient ; when I got able to go the roll was closed and commission never answered my letter." This statement would indicate that Mrs. Marcy's family had a long sick spell. The Government was engaged in the preparation of the rolls of the Choctaw Nation for a period of 11 years. Applications of adults were received from June 10, 1896, until the close of the year 1902. Applications for minors born after September 25, 1902, commonly known as " new horns," were received up to and including .luly 25, 1906. Mrs. Marcy's excuse for not being able to present her application on account of illness of her family seems to be rendered more ridiculous when we take into consideration the fact that the sickness to which she refers did not prevent her from marrying her second husband during the period in \vhich applications were being received. She swears that she was married during the year 1899 to her present husband. The indications from the petitions and accompanying affidavits are that Mrs. Marcy was not a resident of the Choctaw Nation at the time the rolls were being made, but we have not investigated to find whether she was or was not residing in the Choctaw Nation at the time of the passage of the act of June 28, 1898. If she was in the Choctaw Nation at that time, she did not make application, and the act of July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641), provides as follows: " During the 90 days first following the date of the final ratification of this agreement the commission to the Five Civilized Tribes may receive applications INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 403 for enrollment only of persons whose names are on the tribal rolls, but who have not heretofore been enrolled by said commission, commonly known as " delinquents," and such intermarried white persons as may have married recognized citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations in accordance with the tribal laws, customs, and usages on or before the date of the passage of this act by Congress, and such infant children as may have been born to recog- nized and enrolled citizens on or before the date of tlie final ratification of this agreement ; but the application of no person whomsoever for enrollment sliall be received after the expiration of the said 00 days : Provided, That nothing in this section shall apply to any person or persons making application for enrollment as Mississippi Choctaws, for whom provision has herein otherwise been made." Even if these applicants had resided in the Choctaw Nation, and were pos- sessed of Indian blood, they would not, under this law, be now legally entitled to enrollment, but the applicants are not Indians. They are, in fact, negroes. There Is attached hereto, and marked " Exhibit A," a letter from Caesar F. Simmons, postmaster at Boley, Okla., where this claimant resides, saying that the applicant is colored. The town of Boley is populated exclusively by negroes. Mr. Ballinger and his associates have in this case, as in most of their citizenship cases, offered in support of the petition of this applicant the affi- davit of Alec Nail, a professional citizenship witness. Nail is an old negro who signs by mark. His affidavit in support of this petition is as follows : "Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years of age and that his post office Is Boggy Depot, Okla. " That he knows the applicant but that he has not known her very long ; that he was well and personally acquainted with her father and mother. " Her father was Willie Birdsong, a half-blood Choctaw Indian that was placed on the Freedman roll over his protest; that her mother was Adaline Sanders, before she married Willie Birdsong, and that she was a three-quarter Choctaw Indian by blood. " That they both lived In what was old ScuUyville County, now Leflore, near the line of Arkansas. " That all of the Sanders were all recognized Choctaw Indians ; that William Sanders was the brother of her said mother, Adaline Birdsong u6e Sanders. " That he does not know any of the applicant's family. "Alec Nail (his thumb-print). " State or Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. " Subscribed and sworn to before me this, the 16th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true, and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. " My commission expires June 2, 1017. " The name of Alec Nail was written by me at his request and In his pres- ence, and mark made by him in my presence. " JxjLTTJs Golden, " Witness to mark. "Attest. , " Witness to mark." On the 31st day of July, 1915, Alec Nail testified before an officer of the Interior Department as follows : "Do you know a person named Malissa Marcy, n6e Carroll, n&e Bird- song. — ^A. I don't know. " Q. There is an affidavit purported to have been made by you in which you are made to say that you were acquainted with this person; you say you do not remember such a person? — A. No, sir. " Q. You were made to state you were personally acquainted with her mother and father; that her father's name was Willie Birdsong. Do you recall a Willie Birdsong? — A. Yes, sir; I don't know him, but there has been a man up there that claims to be a Birdsong. " Q. You do not know that that person is the father of this applicant?— A. No, sir. ., . , ,. r^ J, J " Q You were made to state that her mother was Adalme Sanders ; do you remember her? — A. It seems that some one was in that office by the name of ^^^^^^^- "Julius Golden, " Notary Publo. 404 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. " Q. You mean to say that Adaliue SanUers, who married Willie Blrdsong, was the mother of the applicant in this caseV — A. No, sir; I dont Know who they was talking about. " Q. You do not remember this applicant? — A. No, sir; I don't remember her ; I don't know nothing about the Birdsongs. " Q. Do you remember William Sanders? — A. No, sir." This testimony is, of course, a complete denial of everything contained in thei affidavit, but there Is one further allegation in the affidavit which Mr. Balllnger and his associates had this old negro swear to that I desire to call attention to. It is this : " Her father was Willie Birdsong, a half-blood Choctaw Indian, that was placed on the Freedman roll over his protest." The old negro witness, when placed on the stand, of course swore that he did not know ■Willie Birdsong, but the person who prepared the affidavit was, in the usual manner of these attorneys, attempting to set up a relationship between this applicant and some person on the Choctaw rolls, and the old negro, A.lec Nail, is made to swear that Willie Birdsong is the father of this applicant, and is enrolled as a Freedman. The fact is that there is a Willie Birdsong enrolled as a Freedman citizen of the Choctaw Nation. His name appears opposite Freedman Roll No. 4506, but this Willie Birdsong was 9 years of age at the time he was enrolled, which was in 1899. This applicant swears that she was 47 years of age at the time she executed the foregoing petition. In other words, Willie Birdsong, who is alleged to be her father, would be 24 years of age at this time, and his daughter, Malissa, would be 47. This discrepancy would be unusual in most cases, but this firm of attorneys seems to find no allegations or statements of facts, however ususual and incongruous they may seem, that they can not substantiate by the testimony of their faithful wit- nesses. Alec Nail, Webster Burton, and W. M. James. For the information of the committee, I am attaching hereto a photographic copy of Freedman census card No. 1352, which bears the name of Willie Bird- song, his age, and the date of his enrollment. This exhibit is marked " Exhibit B." In order to dignify the petition of Malissa Marcy and the affidavit of Alec Nail, Mr. Ballinger and his associates offer in corroboration of these two instruments the affidavit of W. M. James. Mr. James Is a negro criminal, who signs his name by mark. He is at present serving a term in the State penitentiary at McAlester, Okla. Before an officer of the Interior Department at Muskogee, Okla., on August 6, 1915, James testified as follows : " You are an inmate of the county jail now, are you? — A. Yes, sir. " Q. What crime are you charged with?^ — A. Check. " Q. What is the charge against you? — ^A. Identifying a check; Identification. " Q. Is the charge for false pretense? — A. Yes, sir." (Since rendering this testimony the witness has been sentenced to a term in the penitentiary.) " Q. Are you acquainted with Malissa Marcy? — ^A. No, sir. " I read you an affidavit purporting to have been made by you before Julius Golden, a notary public, on March 16, 1915, filed by Mr. Webster Ballinger, with the petition for the enrollment ol Malissa Marcy and her family as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation : " W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 70 years of age and that he lives at Beeland Okla. " That he first knew the applicant near Bowell in the Choctaw Nation ; that she is the daughter of Malissa Birdsong, who was IMallssa Sanders before she married Birdsong. " That the said Malissa Sanders was a Choctaw Indian by blood and was always considered three-quarters ; that I also knew her brother William Sanders and the whole Sanders family and they were all Choctaw Indians. When I first knew them they were living on Sans Bois River ; but when I last knew them they were living down on Blue River. " The mother died down there on Blue River ; I knew the father Willie Bird- song, but don't know where he died ; he was a half-breed Choctaw who was placed on the Freedman roll over his protest. " That he was well acquainted with the first husband of the applicant ; his name was Tony Carroll and they separated ; I knew about the family but not well enough to identify them ; I know the man she lives with now "at Boley, Okla. ; his name William Marcy. They have a boy that lives with them now about 14 years old. " (Signed.) W. M. James (by thumb mark). INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 405 "Q. Did you make this affidavit?— A. I may liave made tliis affidavit, but I didn't see tliose people at all. Nail came to me and told me there was a woman who had been here and said I knew her. She had been here and gone. Nail told me who she was and I remembered seeing her at Poruin once. " Q. You took his word for it? — A. Yes, sir ; I remember making the affidavit. "Q. You did not know anything about it yourself? — A. No, sir. "Q. You took his word that she was a Choctaw by blood? — A. Yes, sir." Then the reason tliat these applicants are not entitled to enrollment appears to be — First. They have not proven that they were residents of the Choctaw Nation on the 28th day of June, 1898, as required by law. Second. They did not make application for enrollment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation within the time required by law. Third. They have no Indian blood ; they are negroes. Fourth. The allegations of their applications are false. Fifth. Affidavits submitted in corroboration of the allegations of their peti- tions are admitted by the witnesses who made them to be false. P. J. HUELEY, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. Department of the Inteeior, United States Indian Service, Five Civilized Tribes. Muskogee, Ohla., November 3, 1915. Postmaster, Boley, Okla. Snt: Desiring to personally interview Malissa Marcy, probably wife of one William Marcy, in an official matter, I would thank you to promptly inform me, by indorsement hereon and under cover of the inclosed envelope, whether she resides within the delivery of your office, and, if so, whether in town or at what distance and in what direction in the country. If she does not reside within your delivery, any information you may furnish with respect to present post-office address and nearest town or railway station will be appreciated. Very respectfully, Wm. L. Bowie, Of Special Investigation Service, Office of Superintendent for the Five Civilised Tribes. Exhibit A. Malissa Marcy, Boley, Okla., general delivery. This person is colored. Oaesae F. Simmons, P. if. Exhibit B. Choctaw Nation, freedmen roll. [Eesidence, Kiamltia County; Post Office, Grant, I. T.; Field No. 1362.] Dawes roU No. Name. Belation- ship to per- son first named. Age. Sex. Tribal enrollnient. Slave of— Year. County. No. 4502 1. Birdsong, Lucy Ann 2. McDonJd, Ida 3. Birdsong, Violet 4. Birdsong, Frank.... 5. Birdsong, Willie 6. Birdsong, Arthur... 7. McDonald, Eddie (born Feb. 21, 1900). 35 15 13 11 9 4 2i Female. . ...do ...do Male.... ...do ...do .do . . 1896 1896 1896 1896 1896 1896 Kiamitia.. ...do ...do ...do ...do ...do 3619 2566 680 581 583 583 Sampson Fol- 4503 4504 Daughter.. ...do Son ...do ...do Grandson . som. '4506 4508 No. 1 on 1S96 Choctaw as Lucy Ann Ware. No. 2 is wife of Eli McDonald, Chickasaw freedman card No. D53, refused. Evidence of marriage filed Dec. 24, 1902. No. 7 enrolled Dec. 24, 1902. Transferred from Chiclcasaw freedman card No. 1277. (Stamped:) Enrollment of Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, hereon approved by the Secretary of the Interior June 28. 1904. Date of application for enrollment, 9, 1899. 406 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. [Additional information on reverse side.] [Printed numbers in first column refer to individual names on reverse side.] Name of father. Father's tribal enroll- ment. Father's owner. Name of mother. Mother's tribal enrollment. Mother's owner. Year. County. Year. County. 1 ? Ed. Folsom Dead. Kiamitia Sampson Folsom. B h d a Folsom. No. 1 Died. Kiamitia. . Sampson Folsom. s do do 4 do do 5 do ..do 6 do ..do < 7 ■Rli MnDnTiTiel Chickasaw freedman. No. 2 ENEOLLMEWT CASE NO. 9. Petition op Thomas F. Eubanks for Enrollment as a Citizen by Blood of THE Choctaw Nation, Presented by Webster Ballinger, Attorney at Law — Reply and Argument of P. J. Hurley, Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. supplemental petition op JOSEPH T. EUBANKS IN SUPPORT OP THE PETITION OF THOMAS P. EUBANKS FOR THE ENROLLMENT OP HIMSELF BT AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Joseph T. Eubanks and shows : That he is 25 years of age and that he lives at Ada, Oiila. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition as is sliown by the petition of Thomas F. Bubanlss, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and iinows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other descendants of his said father, he knows to be true of his own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of his said par- ents, he has always been taught was true; that he has alsp been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that he believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That he has been considered and recognized as a Choctaw Indian ever since he could remember, having been born and raised In the Choctaw. That he knows that his father had his home on the public domain and lived there un- molested. That he has never been required to pay permits but was accorded all the rights and recognition of the otlier Choctaw Indians all his life, except an allotment. That during the enrolling period of his said tribe ever since he was born he was a minor ; that roll was closed by operation of law long before he reached his majority and although he was long past the age to have been enrolled and allotted his name was never placed on the roll and he was denied his allotment. That he has thus been deprived of his share of the common property of his tril)e through no fault of his, but solely on account of the negligence of his parents, the disregard of the Choctaw Nation and the omission of the Dawes Commission, solely because he was a minor. That he now claims what he should have received during that period as in law, justice, and equity he is entitled. That his name appears in the said petition of his said father at his request and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Joseph T. Eitbanks. State op Oklahoma, Payne County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 29th day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that he INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 407 knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the matters and things therein contained were true and that he was tlie identical person named therein as petitioner. fs'^-^^-] J. W. Neil. Notary Fuhlic. (My commission expires Mar. 31, 1918.) PETITION OF THOMAS F. EUH.\NKS FOE THE ENKOI.LMBNT OF HIMSELF A.\D FAiriLY AND IN BEHALF OF HIS GRANDCHILDREN AS CHOCTA^^•S BY BLOOD. Comes now Thomas F. Eubanlcs and sliows : That he is 62 years of age and tliat he lives at Alabama Avenue, South Okmulgee, Okla. That he is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence and by recognition ; that he is the son of Betsey Eubanks, n§e Robbins, a three- quarter Choctaw Indian; that the name of my father was William Eubanks a Choctaw Indian by blood; that both said father and mother died prior to final enrollment. That his said mother had a sister named Patsie, who married a .Joe Ward deceased, as is also the said Patsie. That Daiv Robbins, enrolled Xo. C618, on the approved roll of Choctaws by blood, is a cousin of my said mother. That the enrolled relatives of his said father as shown bv the approved roll are Earnest Eubanks, enrolled opposite No. 15432, and" Ella Eubanlis, enrolled opposite No. 15954, on said roll. That they are the children of his said father's brotlier, Talt, bv different women, as he is informed. That he was born in the Choctaw Nation near Scully ville and lived there until he was 4 years of age, then was taken by his said father to Texas, then to Arkansas, where his said father died in 1868, and that he then returned to the Choctaw Nation and has since lived In the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations at various places. That on the 30th day of April, 1876, he was duly and lawfully married to Ruthie Allen, with whom he still lives ; that there was born to this union the following-named children, to wit : Caria Eubanks, age 34 years ; Maudella Star, age 32 years ; Lula V. Hirrell, . age 28 years ; Joseph T. Eubanks, age 25 years ; Morlin Eubanks, age 19 years ; Leroy Eubanks, age 17 years : Lillie H. Eubanks, age 15 years ; Willie B. Eubanks, age 13 years. Children of Caria Eubanks (grandchildren) : Sammie Eubanks, age 13 years ; Erie Eubanks, age 11 years. Children of Maudella Star (grandchildren): Teddie Star, age 13 years; Eddie Star, age 11 years ; Clara May, age 10 years. Children of Lulu V. Hirrell (grandchildren) : Ruby May Hirrell, age 10 years. Petition further shows that the reason that his name and the names of his said family were not placed on the approved roll by the Dawes Commission was that he came to Muskogee to the Dawes Commission for the purpose of enroll- ment of himself and family ; that he met one of his Indian neighbors that had preceded him and was told by him that he had to pay $60 to get to the Dawes Commission ; that that was what he had to pay. When I went there I expected to pay the $60, as he had informed me, and the small man — I can't give his name — met me at the door and collected from me the $60, and I went before the commission and they told me that they would notify me when to come back ; then the same small man told me that I would have to pay $500 per capita for the enrollment of myself and family. I just simply did not have the money, as I was a poor man, and I went home ; then, after the roll was closed, the commission notified me to return; but I learned that the roll was closed, through the paper, and thought it useless to come. Petitioner further shows that he had always been recognized as a Choctaw Indian and enjoyed all the privileges as such that the other Choctaw Indians had. That he built him a home on the public domain 10 miles west from Ada and put in cultivation 160 acres which he lived on until it was allotted away from ine, unmolested. 408 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. " I knew that I was a Choctaw Indian and never entertained any idea that for any reason that I would be deprived of my right and dispossessed ot my home on which I had lived for nine years, as a Choctaw Indian, unmolested and recognized." Petition further shows, tliat the enrollment by the Dawes Commission, on the final roll, of the descendants from the same common ancestor as here- tofore mentioned in this petition, is a final adjudication and a full determina- tion of the rights of this applicant and his lineal descendants to be enrolled. That if they were entitled, which applicant admits, he is also entitled and If he is not entitled, their names should be stricken from the roll. That his said tribe never notified him that his recognition would ever cease or that for any reason he was required to protect his birthright or make proof of his blood as a Choctaw. That he did everything that he was able to do and knew how to do, with the result that his said tribe took advantage of his ignorance, the Dawes Commission disregarded his application, and him and his family, all of whom, i were citizens by birth, were omitted from the roll. Wherefore petitioner prays that his name, Thomas F. Eubanks and the said names of his children, Carria Eubanks, Maudella Star, Lulu V. V. Hirrell, Joseph T., Morlin, Leroy, LlUie H., and Willie B. Eubanks ; also the names of his said grandchildren, Sammle and Erie Eubanks, and Teddie, Eddie, and Clara Star, and Ruby May Hirrill, be placed on the approved roll of Choctaw Indians by blood, and that to them and to each of them be given their dis- tributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians, th^ same as is given to all other Choctaws by blood. Thomas P. Eubanks. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Thomas F. Eubanks, being first duly sworn, on oath states, that he is the above named Thomas F. Eubanks ; that he has read over the above and fore- going petition and knows the contents, and the matters and things therein contained are true. Thomas F. Eubanks. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 26th day of March, 1915 ; I further certify that I read over to the afiiant the above petition and that he knows the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true. [l. s.] Julius Golden, Notary PuUio. , (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) SUPP1>EMENTAL PETITION OF CARIA M. EUBANKS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF THOMAS V. EUBANKS FOR THE ENROLLMENT OF HISISELF ET AL. AS CHOCTAW INUIANS. Comes now Garia M. Eubanks and shows : That he is 34 years of age and that his present post office is Santa Barbara, Cal. That he is a Choctaw Indian by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recog- nition, as is shown by the petition of Thomas F. Eubanks, his father, made in his behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That he has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to his relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other descendants of his said parents named therein he knows to be true of his own knowledge. That the matters and things therein contained AA'ith reference to the ancestors of his said parents he has always been taught were true ; that he has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally ac- quainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that he believes them to be true, and so charges the fact to be. That on the — day of February, 1901, he was duly and lawfully married to Evaline Owens; that there was born to this union the following-named children, to wit : Siinimie Eubanks, born August 11, 1902 ; Erie Eubanks, boi-ii February That both of said children are living and live with the petitioner at above stated place of residence. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 409 That he has been considered and recognized as a Clioctaw Indian ever since he could remember ; that lie helped his said father to clear np the place on the public domain described in his petition. That he lived on the placr after he was married and until it was allotted away from them. That during all the years that they lived there as Choctaw Indians they were not molested or re- quired to pay permits. That he waited for his father to enroll himself and family until it was too late for him to make an application ; the roll was closed. That his name appears in the said petition of his father, and also the names of Ms said children at his request, and that he hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. C.\KIA BURANKS. State of Cai.ifobnia, Santa Barbara County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 8th day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true, and that he was the identical person named therein as the petitioner. [SEAT,.] G. M. Moi-EY, Notary Puhltc in and for the County of Santa Barharii, ^ State of California. (My commission expires Mar. 9, 1918.) SUPPLEMENTAL PETITION OE MAUDELLA STAKT, IN SUPPOBT OF THE PETITION OF THOMAS F. ETJBANKS FOR THE ENEOLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET AL., CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Maudella Start and shows — That she is 32 years of age and that she lives 3 miles northwest from Max- well, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as is shown by the petition of Thomas F. Eubanks, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof and that the matters and things therein with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other parties named therein, she knows of her own knowledge ; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to the ancestors of her parents, she has always been taught were true ; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons who were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true and so charges the fact to be. That on the 14th day of May, 1899, she was duly and lavtrfully married to James Start ; that there was born to this union the following named children, to wit: Teddie Start, born October 12, 1900; Eddie Start, born September 9, 1902 ; Clara Start, born October 18, 1905. That all the above-named children are alive and live with their said parents at the above-stated place of residence. Petitioner further shows that she has been considered and recognized as a Choctaw Indian ever since she could remember, having been born and raised in the Choctaw Nation on the public domain that her father had improved. That she, like the others of her said father's family, depended on him to en- roll her, and as he did not succeed she made no application. That her name and the names of her said children appear in the said petition of her father at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the pra.yei; thereto appended. Maud Start. State of OKLAHoirA, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 3d day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true and that she \\as the identical person named therein as petitioner. [Seal.] .Julius Golden. Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2. 1917.) 410 IKDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Sin^PLEMENTAL PETITION OF LULA HII^EILL IN SUPPOHl OF THE PETITION THOMAS ]>'. EUBANKS FOE THE ENKOLLMENT OF HIMSELF ET. AL. AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Lulu HiiTill and shows: That she is 28 years of age, and that she lives in Alabama Avenue. South Okmulgee, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition, as shown by the petition of Thomas F. BJnbanks, her father, made in her behalf, to which this petition is attached and made a part. That she has read over said petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein contained with reference to her relationship and residence and the relationship and residence of all the other descendants of her said father, she knows of her own knowledge to be true; that the matters and things therein contained with reference to ancestors of her said parents, she has always been taught were true; that she has also been told that they were true by reliable persons that were personally acquainted with the parties and knew the facts, and that she believes them to be true, and so charges the fact to be. That on the 22d day of March, 1903, she was duly and lawfully married to Henry Hirrill; that there was born to this union the following-named child, to wit : Ruby May Hirr?ll, born July 34, 1905, and is still living. That she has been considered and recognized as a Choctaw Indian ever since she could remember, having been born and raised in the Choctaw Nation ; that she lived with her said father on the public domain until the same was allotted away from him; that prior to allotment they all lived on the public domain unmolested. That her name and the name of her said child appears in the petition of her said father at her request, and that she hereby ratifies and confirms the same and joins in the prayer thereto appended. Lulu Hibrill. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the Sd day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant, and that she knew he contents thereof, and that she stated that same was true, and that she was the identical person named herein as peitioner. [SEAL] Julius Golden, Ifotary PuUic. My commission expires June 2, 1917. affidavit of ISAAC FULSOME IN SUPPOET OF THE PETITION OF THOMAS F. EUBANKS foe the eneollment of himself et al. as choctaws by blood. State of Oklahoma, County of Garvin, ss.: Isaac Fulsome, being by me first duly sworn, deposes and says that Thomas Franklin Eubanks is the son of William Eubanks and Betsey Eubanks, nee Robins, and that Betsy Eubanks, nee Robins, is a cousin of mine by blood, me being a full-blood Choctaw Indian, and further states that I have known the above stated parties all my life and have always known them to be Choctaw Indians. (Signed) Isaac Fulsome. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 9th day of January, 1915. (Signed) O. H. Masset, Notary PuUio. affidavit of johnson gift in suppoet of the petition of thomas f. eubanks fob the eneollment of himself et al. as choctaw indians. Stafford, Okla. This is to certify that I am an Indian by blood ; that I am well acquainted with Thomas F. Eubanks and his family ; that he Is a Choctaw by blood ; and that INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 411 he held land under the public domain until it was allotted away from him, and have always known him and his family to be Ohoctaws. (Signed) Johnson Gift. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 24th day of April, 1915. (Signed) O. H. Massey, Notary PuliUo. (My commission expires March 3d, 1917.) AFFIDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN SUPPOBT OF THE PETITION OF THOMAS F. EUBANKS FOB THE ENEOLLMENT OF HIMSEI.F AND FAMILY AND GBANDCHILDBEN AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states : That he is 72 years of age, and that he lives at 1206 South Third Street, Muskogee, Okla. That he has recently met the applicant, and that he is well and personally acquainted with the Choctaw Indians that he claims to have been his ancestors. That his said father, William Eubanks, was the son of Old Joe Eubanks, and that they were always counted full blood. They lived like full bloods. They lived about 4 miles east of Fort Towson, where I lived until I was 12 years old. I further know that some of the same family moved up to near Old ScuUyville, where the applicant says he was born. I knew Betsey Robins, the woman that he says is his mother, and have been told that she married a Eubanks. In fact, it was generally known that she married a Eubanks. She lived in huts just like the other full bloods, and was counted a full blood. All the above persons referred to were Choctaw Indians, and all lived in either the Choctaw or Chickasaw nations. Affiant further states that he has heard read the affidavit of Old Isaac Pulsom, with whom he is well and personally acquainted, and if there had been any doubts about the parties being Indians he would never have given them such an affidavit. Alec. Nail (his thumb print). The name of Alec. Nail was written by me at his request and in his presence, and mark made by him in my presence. Julius Golden, witness to clerk. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 26th day of March, 1915. I further certify that I read over and fully explained the above affidavit to the affiant, and that he knew the contents thereof, and that he stated that same was true, and that he was the identical person named therein as ffiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) statement of p. J. HUKLEY, ATTORNEY FOB THE CHOCTAW NATION. A copy of a petition was served on me by Mr. Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law, of Washington, D. C, for the enrollment of Thomas F. Eubanks et al. as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. Thomas F. Eubanks claims to be a citizen by blood of the Choctaw Nation and petitions that himself and family be enrolled as such. He claims to be ' related to certain persons whose names appear upon the approved roll of the Choctaw Nation. Thomas F. Eubanks swears to the following statement : " That he was born in the Choctaw Nation, near ScuUyville, and lived there until he was 4 years of age; then was taken by his said fatlier to Texas, then to Arkansas, where his said father died in 1868, and that he then returned to the Choctaw Nation and has since lived in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations at various places." Eubanks's address at the present time is Okmulgee, Okla., which is not in the Choctaw Nation. Eubanks states that he was always recognized as a Choctaw Indian and enjoyed all the privileges of citizenship in said tribe ; that he made application 412 INDTAK A.PPBOPKIATION BILL. to the Dawes Commission for enrollment for himself and his family ; t^^t he did everything he was able to do and knew how to do to secure his rights, but that advantage was taken of him on account of his ignorance, and that the Dawes Commission disregarded his application for himself and the members of his family, and that they were all omitted from the roll. It appears from the records of the office of the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes that Thomas F. Eubanks and his family were applicants for identification as Mississippi Choctaws in case No. R. 5536. It happens also that in said mentioned case the testimony Of Thomas F. Eubanks was taken before the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes at Muskogee, Ind. T., on May 10, 1902. L. P. Hudson appeared at said hearing as attorney for the applicants. It is necessary for me to quote here a few lines of Bubanks's testimony before the commission on the date above mentioned to show the absolute disregard for the truth evidenced in that part of Eubanks's petition filed by Mr. Ballinger, which I have quoted above. " i}. Wliat is your name? — A. Thomas F. Eubanks. " '}. How old are you? — A. I am 49 years old. " Q. A\'hiit is ^•ou^ post-office address? — A. Asher, Okla. " Q: How long have you lived at Asher? — A. About six months. '• Q. Where did you live before that? — A. In the Chickasaw Nation. " Q. How long did you live in the Chickasaw Nation? — ^A. 18 years. " Q. Where did you live "before you lived there? — A. In Texas. " Q. How many years did you live in Texas? — A. I was raised there. " Q. Wore you born in Texas? — A. I was born in Arkansas, and went from there to Texas." In his petition filed by Mr. Ballinger, a copy of which is before me, and which is dated the 26th day of Jlarch, 1015, Eubanks swears " that he was born in the Choctaw Nation near Scullyville and lived there until he was 4 years of age." Tills iri'i'coucilable conflict between the two sworn statements of Mr. Eubanks would seem to establish the degree of confidence that sliould be placed in any of liis statements. If there is a question as to which statement should be given credence JMr. Ballinger will probably call attention to the fact that the last statement made by Mr. Eubanks is supported by the affidavit of Mr. Bal- inger's star witness. Alec Nail, who signs by mark. We have read so many affidavits concerning different applicants, their rights, their degree of blood, their family relationship, their place of residence, and their ages, made by this witness, that v.'e are confident that for proper consideration he can swear to more facts concerning applicants who desire enrollment as Choctaw citizens than any person who has ever been used as a professional witness in citizenship matters. Mr. Ballinger seems to have discovered a genius as a witness when he discovered Alec Nail. The record in this case show that the applicants claim as Mississippi Choc- taws. Thomas F. Eubanks states in his testimony, taken in 1902, that he claimed through his mother whom he alleges, was a Mississippi Clioctaw of one-fourth blood. That would maliie Thomas F. Eubanks a one-eighth blood, his children, one-sixteenth blood, and his grandchildren, who are applicants, one thirty-second blood, but he was unable to prove that his mother was in reality a Choctaw at all. He was not able to prove that she complied or attempted to comply with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. Even if his mother had been a Mississippi Choctaw she would not have been entitled to enrollment unless she could make such proof. No Mis- sissippi Choctaws were entitled to enrollment unless they were enrolled under the so-called full-blood rule, which permitted the enrollment of full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, or could prove conclusively that they were descendants of a patentee or scriptee or one of those persons on the supplemental schedule who complied or attempted to comply with the provisions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. The records show that this claimant failed absolutely to make such proof. They were rightly denied enrollment by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. The petitioner makes the following - statement in his petition : " Petitioner further shows : that the reason that his name and the names of his family were not placed on the approved roll by the Dawes Commission was : that he came to Muskogee to the Dawes Commission for the purpose of enrollment of himself and family ; that he met one of his Indian neighbors who had preceded him and was told by him that he had to pay $60 to get to the Dawes Commission, that that was what he had to pay. INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 413 "When I went there I expected to pay $60 as he had informed me and that the small man — I can't give his name — met me at the door and collected from me the $60, and I went before the commission and they told me that they would notify me when to come back; then the same small man told me that I would have to pay $50 per capita for the enrollment of myself and family." Of course the petitioner had an attorney to appear for him in the case but it is probable that he did pay money to some one who was conducting a fraudulent citizenship bureau, and that he was asked for money. There are many cases in which claimants who were not enrolled, and not entitled to en- rollment, were led by unscrupulous lawyers to believe that they, the lawyers, had the power to enroll them, and that they could be enrolled by paying a certain amount of money. I have no doubt but that some of these lawyers led the applicants to believe that they, the lawyers, were in reality the Com- mission to the Five Civilized Tribes, and that the ignorant applicants some- times believed they were bribing the conunission when in fact they were not in the presence of the commission at all. I am informed that this practice was continued even after the rolls were closed, and there is some evidence to show that the same kind of fraud has been practiced within the last year. In fact, the firm of Balliuger, Lindley & Rortkey have offices in the same building with the offices of the ^Superintendent to the Five Civilized Tribes, at Muskogee, Okla., and I have in my possession evidence to show that many claimants for citizenship were led to believe that this firm of attorneys is con- nected with the Government ; that the rolls of citizenship have been reopened, and that these gentlemen are engaged in the business of enrolling applicants for the Government. In this connection I refer to a report made by Mr. William L. Bowie, a special inspector in the service of the superintendent to the Five Civilized Tribes. In order to convince the committee that Thpmas F. Kubanks and his family were not deprived of their right by reason of the conduct of any fraudulent citi- zenship bureau, I am attaching hereto a complete and certified copy of the tes- timony of Thomas F. Eubanks taken before tlie Counuission to the Five Civil- ized Tribes at Muskogee, Ind. T., May 10, 1902 ; also a complete and certified copy of the decision of the Commission to the Fi^e (Civilized Tribes in tlie case of Thomas F. Eubanks and others on Novenil)er 1, ]001!. These papers show conclusively that Thomas F. Eubanks was denied enroll- ment as a citizen of tlie Choctaw JN'atiou after a full and fair liearing, and was denied — first, because he was unable to prove that he was of Indian descent ; second, because he claimed as a Mississippi Choctaw and was unable to show- that, as such, any of his ancestors had complied or attempted t<^ comply with the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830. We have shown elsewhere in tliis argument tliat the statements made by Thomas F. Eubanks in the petition under consideration are false. ^Ve have proven the statements contained in the petition to be false by the testimony of the petitioner himself which was taken in his case, while the same was pend- ing before the Commission to the Five Civilizeil Tribes ; but, in corroboration of the false statements contained in the petition submitted by Thomas F. Eubanks, Mr. Ballinger and his associates have presented an affidavit signed by Alec Nail, an old negro, who signs by mark. The affidavit of Alec Nail is in full as follows : "Affidavit of Alec Nail in support of the petition of Thomas F. Eubanks for the enrollment of himself and family and grandchildren as Choctaw Indians. "Alec Nail, being first duly sworn on oath, states tJiat he is 72 years of age and that he lives at 1206 South Third Street, Muskogee, Okla. " That he has recently met the applicant, and that he is well and personally acquainted with the Choctaw Indians that he claims to have been his ancestors. " That his said father, ■\A'illiam Eubanks, was the son of old Joe Eubanks, and that they were always counted full blood; they live.t William Eubanks was this applicant's father; that he was the son of old Joe Eubanks, and you have just stated to me that you did not know this person ? — A. ^^'ell, not to my mind ; but if you call over their names I could recall them. I never knew nothing of the Eubanks until they came in. " Q. Was this affidavit read over to you before you made your thumb print thereon? — A. They read them over. I don't know what they were doing." Again, in the same testimony, the witness was asked : " Q. Do you remember what was given you for making this particular affi- davit? — A. No, sir; I don't. It was not much." P. J. HUELET, National Attorney for the Cliootaio Nation. Department of the Interior, CoifMlBSION to the FiVE CIVILIZED TRIBES, Muskogee, Ind. T., May 10, 1902. In the matter of the application of Thomas F. Eubanks for the Identification of himself and his six minor children, Louisa V. Eubanks, Joseph Thomas INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 415 w-?r °^b' ,^^'■"? Mii'C"s Eubanks, Roy Lee Eubanks, Lillie Hortense lOiibanks, Willie Belle Eubanks, as Mississippi Choctaws. L. P. Hudson appeared as attorney for applicants. THOMAS F. EUBANKS, being first duly sworn, testified as follows : Examination by the Commission : Q. What is your name? — A. Thomas F. Eubanks. Q. How old you? — A. I am 49 years old. Q. What is your post-oflSce address?— A. Asher, Oklahoma Q. How long have you lived at Asher?— A. About six months Q. Where did you live before that?— A. In the Chickasaw Nation. Q. How long did you ilve in the Chickasaw Nation?— A. Eighteen years Q. Where did you live before you lived there?— A. In Texas Q. How many years did you live in Texas?— A. I was raised there Q. Were you born in Texas?— A. I was born in Arkansas and went fron, there to Texas. Q. Is your father living? — A. No sir. Q. Is your mother liver? — ^A. No, sir. Q. What was your father's name? — A. William Eubanks. Q. What was your mother's name?— A. Elizabeth Eubanks. Q. Through which parent do you claim Choctaw blood?— A. My mother. Q. How much Choctaw blood do you claim? — A. One-eighth. Q. Has your mother ever been recognized in any way or enrolled as a citizen of the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory ?— A. Not that I know of. Q. Are you married? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is your wife living? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is she an Indian or white woman? — A. She is a white woman. Q. What is her name? — A. Ruthie Ellen Eubanks. Q. Do you make any claim for her? — A. No, sir. Q. How many children have you under age and unmarried? — A. I have six. Q. Give me the name of the oldest one. — A. Louisa V. Eubanks. Q. How old is she? — A. Fifteen years old. Q. The next one? — A. Joseph Thomas Eubanks. Q. How old is he? — A. Thirteen. Q. Next? — A. Marlin Marcus Eubanks. Q. How old is he? — A. Eight years old. Q. Next one? — ^A. Roy Lee Eubanks. Q. How old is he? — A. Six years old. Q. Next one? — A. Lillie Hortense Eubanks. Q. How old? — A. Four years old. Q. Next?— A. Willie Belle Eubanks. Q. How old? — ^A. One year old. Q. You claim for yourself and these six children? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is Ruthie Ellen Eubanks the mother of these children? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you and your wife living together and these children with you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Were either of you married before you married each other? — A. No, sir. Q. Have you the proof of your marriage with you? — ^A. No, but I suppose I can get it. A reasonable time will be allowed applicant in which to supply the proof of his marriage. Q. Is your name or the names of any of your children on any of the tribal rolls of the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory? — ^A. Not that I know of. Q. Have you ever made application for citizenship for yourself and children in the Choctaw Nation either to the Choctaw tribal authorities or to the United States authorities in Indian Territory? — A. No, sir. Q. Have you ever applied to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes for enrollment of yourself and children under the act of Congress of June 10, 1896?— A. No, sir. Q. Is this the first application you have ever made to any authority what- ever for the enrollment of yourself and children as citizens of the Choctaw Nation? — A. Yes, sir. Except as I spoke to Judge Hudson this morning; three years ago I wrote to the Secretary of the Interior and sent the names of my 416 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. family, and he wrote to me to go to the Dawes Commission with my application. Q. What did you do?— A. I did not go before the Da^ves Commission, because there were so many sharks over there wliere I was who wanted to represent me tliat I would not have anything to do with them. I did not do anything more about it. Q. Do you now come before the commission to identify yourself and children as MississiTppi Ghoctaws, (>laimiiig under article 14 of the treaty of 1830? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you understand tliat article of tliat treaty? — A. I think so. It reads as follows : "Each Choctaw head of a family being desirous to remain and become a citizen of the States shall be permitted to do so by signifying his intention to the agent within six months from the ratification of this treaty, and he or she shall thereupon be entitled to a reservation of one section of six hundred and forty acres of land to be bounded by sectional lines of survey ; in like manner shall be entitled to one-half that quantity for each unmarried child which is' living with him over 10 years of a^'o and a quarter section to such child as may be under 10 years of age, to adjoin the location of the parent. If they reside upon said lands intending to become citizens of the States for live years after the ratification of this treaty, in that ease a grant in fee simple shall issue. Said reservation shall include the present improvement of the head of the family or a portion of it. Persons who claim under this article shall not lose the privilege of a Choctaw citizen, but if they ever remove are not to be entitled to any portion of the Choctaw annuity." Q. Do you understand that now? — A. Tes, sir. Q. What is the name of your Choctaw ancestor through whom you claim the right to be identified as a Mississippi Choctaw? — A. Elizabeth Robbins. Q. Did any of your Choctaw ancestors comply or attempt to comply in any way with the provisions of that article of that treaty ? — A. I can not tell you ; I don't know. Q. Did Elizabeth Robbins live in Mississippi in 1830, or in Alabama? — A. I can not tell you. Q. Where was she living at that time? — A. I don't know. Q. Did she ever live in Mississippi? — A. Yes, sir. She claimed she lived in Mississippi. Q. Can you give me the names of any of your ancestors who lived in Missis- sippi or Alabama in 1830 and was the head of a family there? — A. I can not. Q. How much Choctaw blood did Elizabeth Robbins have? — A. My mother was a quarteroon, a quarter blood Choctaw. Q. What was your mother's maiden name? — A. Elizabeth Robbins. Q. Did she claim through her mother or father? — A. She claimed through her mother. Q. What was her mother's name? — A. Gaffey, to the best of my recollection. Q. What was her first name? A. They called her Nellie. Q. Nellie Caffey was her maiden name before she married Robbins? — A. Yes ; her married name was Nellie Robbins. Q. Did Nellie Caffey or Nellie Robbins have Indian blood? — A. She claimed to have ; yes, sir. Q. Did she live in Mississippi or Alabama in 1830? — A, It seems to me that she did live in Mississippi and went from there to Texas. Q. Do you know whether she lived in Mississippi in 1830 and had a family there then? — A. I don't know whether she did or not at that time. Q. Did any of your Choctaw ancestors own or claim any lands in the old Chocta\v- Nation under article 14 of the treaty of 1830? — A. Not that I know of. Q. Did any of your Choctaw ancestors within six months after the treaty of 1830 was ratified go to the United States Indian agent, Col. Ward, and tell him that they wanted to remain in Mississippi, take lands there, and become citizens of the States? — A. I don't know. Q. Did any of them own any improvements on lands in Mississippi or Ala- bama in 1830? — ^A, I don't know. Q. Did any of your Choctaw ancestors go with the other Indians from the Choctaw Nation east of the Mississippi River to the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory between 1833 and 1838 and 1840?— A. Not that I know of. IKDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 417 Q. Did any of your Choctaw ancestors within six mouths after the ratifica- tion of the treaty of 1830 "go to the United States Indian agent, Col. AVard, and tell him the wanted to stay, take lands, and become citizens of the States? — A. I don't know. Q. In 1837 and 1842 commissions were appointed by Congress which went to Mississippi and heard claimants under article 14 of the treaty of 1830. Many of the Choctaw Indians who went to Col. AVard in accordance with the provi- sions of article 14 and signified their intention of remaining and becoming citi- zens were not put upon his list, known as "Ward's register," and his failure to so put them upon his record caused many to lose both their land and improvements, for both were taken from them and sold by the Government at its public land sales. These commissions went to Mississippi to hear the claims of those who had had land or improvements taken from them by the Government and sold. Do you know whether any of your ancestors went before either of these commissions and claimed benefits under article 14 of the treaty of 1830? — ^A. I don't know. Q. Did any of your Choctaw ancestors receive any scrip from the Government wliich was issued under the act of Congress of August 23, 1842, and which en- titled the holders to select lands from the vacant Government lands in Missis- sippi, Alabama, Louisiana, or Arkansas to take the place of those which had been taken by the Government and sold? — A. I don't know. Q. Have you any relatives or kinsfolk who have been before the commission to be Identified as Mississippi Choctaws? — A. None that I know of. Q. You are not related to Benjamin F. Brock, are you? — A. No, sir. Q. Have you any other evidence you will want to introduce later ? (L. P. Hudson, attorney for applicant, asks leave to file written evidence in support of this application In the near future. Motion allowed by the commission.) Q. Do you speak or understand the Choctaw language? — A. No, sir. I know very little about it This applicant has the appearance and physical characteristics of being descended from white parentage; has dark complexion, somewhat tanned; brown eyes and black hair ; he has no knowledge of the Choctaw language and no knowledge of any compliance on the part of any of his ancestors with any of the provisions of article 14 of the treaty of 1830. S. A. Apple, being duly sworn, on his oath states that as stenographer to the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes he reported the above proceedings on May 10, 1902; and that foregoing is a true and correct transcript of his stenographic notes in same, to the best of his knowledge and ability. S. A. Apple. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 15th day of May, 1902. [SEAL.] Charles H. Sawteh, Notary PuhUo. Department of the Intebiob, Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. In the matter of the application of Thomas F. Eubanks et al. for identification as Mississippi Choctaws. M. C. R. 5536. DECISION. It appears from the record herein that application for identification as Mississippi Choctaws was made to this commission by Thomas F. Eubanks for himself and his six minor children, Louisa V., Joseph Thomas, Marlin Mflrciifi Eov Lee Lillie Hortense, and Willie Belle Eubanks, under the follow- ing provision of the act of Congress approved June 28, 1898 (30 Stats., 495) : " Said commission shall have authority to determine the identity of Choctaw Indians claiming rights in the Choctaw lands under article fourteen of the 31362—16 21 418 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. treaty between the United States and the Choctaw JSTation, concluded Septem- ber twenty-seventh, eighteen hundred and thirty, and to that end may admin- ister oaths, examine witnesses, and perform all other acts necessary thereto, and make report to the Secretary of the Interior." It also appears that all of said applicants claim rights in the Choctaw lands imder article 14 of the treaty between the United States and the Choctaw Nation, concluded September 27, 1830, by reason of being descendants of one Nellie Robbins (n6e Caffey), who is alleged to have been a Choctaw Indian (degree of blood not stated). It further appears from the evidence submitted in support of said applica- tion, and from the records in the possession of the commission, that none of said applicants has ever been enrolled by the Choctaw tribal authorities as a member of the Choctaw Tribe, or admitted to Choctaw citizenship by a duly constituted court or committee of the Choctaw Nation, or by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes, or by a decree of the United States Court in Indian Territory, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved June 10, 1896 (29 Stats., 321). It does not appear from the testimony and evidence offered in support- of said application or from the records in the possession of the commission relat- ing to persons who complied or attempted to comply with the provisions of said Article 14 of the treaty of 1830, and to persons who heretofore were claimants thereunder; that the said Nellie Robbins (n€e Caffey) or a less remote ancestor, signified (in person or by proxy) to Col. Wm.- Ward, Indian Agent, Choctaw Agency, an intention to comply with the provisions of said Article 14, or pre- sented a claim to rights thereunder to either of the commissions authorized to adjudicate such claims by the, acts of Congress approved March 3, 1887 (5 Stats., 180), and August 23, 1842 (.5 Stats., 513). It is therefore the opinion of this commission that the evidence herein is insufficient to determine the identity of Thomas F. Eubanks, Louisa V. Eubanks, Joseph Thomas Eubanks, Marlin Marcus Eubanks, Roy Lee Eubanks, Lillie Hortense Eubanks, and Willie Belle Eubanks as Choctaw Indians entitled to rights in the Choctaw lands under the provisions of said Article 14 of the treaty of 1830, and that th'e application for their identification as such should be refused, and it is so ordered. Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes. (Signed) Tams Bixbt, Acting Chairman. (Signed) T. B. Needles, Commissioner. (Signed) C. R. Bkeckinridge, Muskogee, Ind. T., Novemlier 1, 1902. Commissioner. De"partment of the Intbbioe, Oeeice of the Superintendent, Five Civilized Tribes, Muslcogee, Ohla. This is to certify that I am the officer having custody of the records pertain- ing to the enrollment of the members of the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Cherokee, Creek, and Seminole Tribes of Indians, and the disposition of the land of said tribes, and that the above and foregoing is a true and correct copy of testimony taken on May 10, 1902, and decision dated November 1, 1902, in the matter of the application of Thomas F. Eubanks et al., for their identification as a Missis- sippi Choctaw. Gabe E. Parker, Superintendent, By W. H. Angell, Clerk in Charge Choctaw Records. July 22, 1915. j, INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. AsUer, Okla.; Mississippi Choctaw Indians; field No. R. 5536. (Stamped; Refused. Uejected.) 419 Relation- ship to person first named. Age. Sex. Blood. Tribal enrollment of parents. Name. Name of father. Name of mother. 1. Eubanks, Thomas F. . 49 15 13 8 6 4 1 M. F. M. M. M. F. F. i A William Eubanks (dead), noncitizen. William Eubanks claims Choctaw. do 2. Eubanks, Louisa v.. . 3. Eubanks, Joseph T... i, ■RiihankB, MarHn M Daugh- ter. Son ...do ...do Daugh- ter. ...do (dead), claims Choc- taw. Ruthie E. Eubanks noncitizen. Do. ....do Do. 5. Eubanks, Roy Lee . . . 6. Eubanks, LUlie H.... do Do. ....do Do. 7. Eubanks, Willie BeUe do Do. Decision rendered November 1, 1902. Notice of decision forwarded applicant November 1, 1902. (See testimony. May 10, 1902.) Notice of decisioil mailed attorneys for Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations November 1, 1902. Record forwarded department November 17, 1902. Decision prepared. The application of the several persons herein for ideutiflcation as Mississippi Choctaws refused in the decision in the case of Thomas F. Eubanks, et al., M. I. E. 5536, forwarded the Secretary of the Interior November 17, 1902. Action approved by Secretary of Interior January 20, 1903. Notice 01 departmental action mailed applicant January 31, 1903. Notice of departmental action forwarded attorneys for Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations January 31, 1903. CASE NO. 13. Statement of P. T. Huelet, Attorney foe the Choctaw Nation, in the Matter of the Application foe the Enrollment of Bertha Tolber and Family as Citizens by Blood of the Choctaw Nation. petition of bertha tolber foe the enrollment of herself and family AS CHOCTAW INDIANS BY BLOOD. Comes now Bertha Tolber and shows, that she is 23 years of age and that her present post office is Canadian, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition ; that she is the daughter of Elmyra Wimley, nee Wright ; that father of the said Elmyra Wimley, n6e Wright, was Leonard Wright, a full brother to the ex-Governor Allen Wright, who, petitioner is informed, came to the Choctaw Nation west and then returned to the old Choctaw Nation in Mississippi and died there; that her father was Samuel Wimley, a noncitizen. That she was born and raised near Colbert, in the Chickasaw Nation; that she has always lived in the Chickasaw and Choctaw Nations. That on the 19th day of August, 1909, she was duly and lawfully married to James Tolber, and that she has three children too young to be enrolled. That during all the years of the enrolling period of her said tribe since she was born she was a minor ; that the roll was closed by operation of law before she reached her majority; that although she was long past, the age to have been enrolled and allotted, her name was left off the roll solely for the reason that she was a minor and could not look after her own enrollment. That her said parents, both of whom are deceased, did not have her enrolled ; that the Choctaw Nation neglected and refused to have her enrolled ; that the Dawes Commission omitted her name from the roll of her said tribe ; that she now asks to be restored to the rights due her during her minority that she was deprived of by said Interested parties for their benefit. , „ ^ Wherefore petitioner prays that her name be placed on the approved roll of Choctaws by blood and that to her be given her distributive share of the corn- property of the Choctaw tribe of Indians the same as is given to the other members thereof. Bertha Tolber. 420 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. State op Oklahoma, Muslcogee County, ss: Bertha Tolber, being first duly sworn, on oath states, that she is the above- named Bertha Tolber ; that she has read over the above and foregoing peuuon and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein con- tained are true. „ Beetha Tolbee. Subscribed and sworn to before me this, the 3d day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above petition to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she states that same was true. [SEAL.] JxjLiTJS Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) AFFIDAVIT OF HENRY WOODARD IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF BERTHA TOLBEET FOE THE ENROLLMENT .OF HERSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Henry Woodard, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 48 years of age and that he lives at Eufaula. That he is well and personally acquainted with the applicant, Bertha Tolbert. That he has known her and her family since 1905 ; that he lived 1 mile from them and knows that they had three children, but does not know the names of the said children. That after they moved from the first place that I knew them, which was 5 miles south from Atoka, they moved to Sulphur Springs, which was 2 miles farther from me. That after that they moved to South Canadian, where they have since lived. That they were recognized Choctaw Indians and paid no permits and lived the same as other Choctaw Indians at that time in that neighborhood. I didn't know who were their ancestors as they were never questioned as Choctaws and nothing was ever asked about it. I knew from information where they came from when they came to near Atoka ; It was from Willis place on Red River, which was south of Colbert. During all the time that I have known them they were all recognized and lived the same as other Choctaw citizens and was never questioned as to their rights. Henry Woodaed (his thumb print). State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 2nd day of April, 1915 ; I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, • Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) affidavit of dan KNOBLIN in support OF the petition of bertha TOLBEET FOE THE ENROLLMENT OF HERSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Dan Knoblin, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 57 years of age and that he lives at Eufaula, Okla. That he Is well and personally acquainted with the applicant. Bertha Tolbert ; that he has known her since 1895 ; that they lived in the house and on the same place with me for 2 years ; that her mother lived with her at that time ■ that her name was Blmyra Wimley. ' That I know from information from the parties that were acquainted that the said Elmyra Wimley died last year, 1914. Affiant further states that the petitioner has three children ; their names are Edna May, Narcis, and Roosevelt Tolbert; that they were living a few days since when I saw them. That the time that I knew them they lived 5 miles south of Atoka That when they left there they moved to Canadian, where they have since lived INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 421 That they were recognized Choctaw Indians and had no permits to pay. I know this because if they had not been recognized Choctaws I would have had to pay permits for them as they worked on the farm for me. I am not related to the applicants and not interested in any way in the determination of this case. Dan Knoblin. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 2nd day of April, 1915 ; I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) SUPPLEMENTAL PKOOF IN CASE HEHETOFORE SUBMITTED BY WEBSTER BALLINGEB. The original Choctaw by blood, case No. 12, name of claimant, Bertha Tolbert, has heretofore been submitted under the heading of the second sup- plemental list of Choctaws by blood. The affidavit of Alec Nail in support of the petition of Bertha Tolber is hereto attached and contains additional proof as to the right of the claimant in said case. It is respectfully requested that this paper be attached to and made a part of the case of the same number hereto filed and be considered in connection therewith. AFFIDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF BERTHA TOLBER FOE ENROLLMENT AS A CHOCTAW INDIAN BY BLOOD Alec Nail, being first duly sworn on oath states ; that he is 72 years of age and that he lives at 1006 South Third Street, Muskogee, Okla. That he knows the applicant and that he was well and personally acquainted with the Wrights, who were always said to be and recognized as full blood Choctaw Indians and whom she claims as her ancestors. That the names of the older ones of the boys were Loenard, Alfred and Jack Wright; I don't know how many sisters there were but one of them married a Wimley, whom the applicant claims as her mother. The above named Wrights were all brothers and were related in some way with Allen Wright, who was at one time the Governor of the Choctaw Nation. All of the Wrights above named and many others all lived south from Atoka and down on the mouth of Blue River and they were all recognized Choctaw Indians. Affiant further states that the said mother of the applicant Elmyre Wimley lived, prior to her death, at what is now Tuska, Okla. That the same place used to be called Peck. I don't know just how many children the said Elmyre Wimley had, but I do know that there was a bunch of them, 7 or 8 anyway. Some of them died and they have scattered and some of them now live in Muskogee. This family were all considered and recognized as Choctaws and lived and worked around in the neighborhood. Alec. Nail (his thumb print). State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss : Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 24th day of June, 1915; I further certify that I read over and fully explained the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the idenical person named therein as affiant. Julius Golden, Notary PuWc. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) 422 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. STATEMENT OF P. J. HUKLEY, ATTORNEY FOR THE CHOCTAW NATION. In re application of Bertlia Tolber for enrollment of herself and family as citizens by blood of tlie Choctaw Nation. The petition of the applicant in the foregoing case was served upon me by Mr. Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law, of Washington, D. C. r The applicant in this case claims that she was a minor at the time the rolls of citizenship of the Choctaw Nation were being prepared by the United States Government and that this accounts for the fact that she did not make application for enrollment within the time required by law. The Supplemental Agreement between the Choctaw-Chickasaw Nations and the United States approved by act of Congress, July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 641), provides in part as follows : " * * * The application of no person whomsoever for enrollment shall be received after the expiration of said ninety days." • This law would now be a legal bar to the enrollment of the applicant. She does not state specifically that she was a resident of the Choctaw Nation on the 28th day of June, 1898. The Atoka Agreement between the Choctaw- Chickasaw Nations and the United States, approved on that date, contains the following provision: " No person shall be enrolled who has not heretofore removed to and in good faith settled in the Nation in which he claims citizenship." (32 Stat., 594.) Mrs. Tolber is not now a resident of the Choctaw Nation. She gives as her reason for not having made application that she was a minor, yet, an examin- ation of the records of the Indian Office at Muskogee discloses that her parents did not make application for themselves or their children. Mrs. Tolber states that her mother's name was Elmyra Wimley, and that Elmyra Wimley was the daughter of Leonard Wright, and that Leonard Wright was a full brother of Allen Wright, who was at one time principal chief of the Choctaw Nation. Upon receipt of this application I immediately forwarded a copy thereof to Judge Allen Wright, of the firm of Wright & Boyd, attorneys at law at Mc- Alester, Okla. Allen Wright is the son of the Allen Wright referred to as principal chief of the Choctaw Nation. Before statehood. Judge Allen Wright served as United States commissioner. He is one of the most prominent lavsryers in the Choctaw Nation and a gentleman of high attainments and splendid character. After Judge Wright had read the petition of Bertha Tolber and the affidavits in support thereof, and on the 23d day of July, 1915, he addressed a letter to me — the original of which is as follows : McAlestee, Okla., July 2S, 1915. Mr. P. J. HUKLEY, National Attoi-ney, Choctaw Nation, Tulsa, Okla. Dbak Hukley : Your favor of the 21st, inclosing copy of petition in a citizen- ship case, which was filed and served upon you by Webster Ballinger, of Washington, D. C, received and the contents of the petition considered with a great deal of interest. The petition is the first information that" I ever had that my father had a brother named Leonard Wright. The fact of the matter is that such an allegation is a fabrication pure and simple. My father, when about 8 years old, came to the Choctaw Nation from Mississippi, being accom- panied by an older sister, his only living relative. Subsequent to coming to this country his sister died, leaving two children, Robinson Telle and Allngton Telle, whom my father took into his family and raised. Robinson Telle died the year after he graduated from college and Allngton Telle died in March, 1903, leaving a widow and son, who now live at Atoka. The son, Russell Telle, is the only blood relative on my father's side now living in Oklahoma. There are plenty of living witnesses who know that my father had no such relative as Leonard Wright and, in fact, that he never had any brothers. If you desire it I will probably be able to give you the names of persons who can substantiate what I have herein stated. It is very startling to know to what length these applicants will go in order to be enrolled. In this case they have certainly overstepped and it will not be at all difficult to show that their claim is pure fabrication. With kindest personal regards, I am Yours, very truly, Allen Wright. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 423 This letter would seem to be conclusive to the fact that the Leonard Wright, brother of Allen Wright, chief of the Choctaw Nation, from whom this appli- cant claims to be descended, did not exist. The applicant is not an Indian — she is a negro. I ascertained the place of residence of this applicant and at one time had her located, but it seems that her husband, Jim Tolber, who is a negro, was engaged in construction work on the M., K. & T. Railroad and has moved from the address given. I was unable thereafter to locate her, but there is attached hereto a note from the post- master at Canadian, Okla. He states that he knows the applicant and that she is colored. The affidavits of witnesses were submitted by Mr. Ballinger and his asso- ciates to. corroborate the false statements contained in the application of Bertha i'olber. Two of these witnesses we were unable to locate. One of the witnesses, however, was Alec Nail, an old negro who was used by Mr. Ballinger and his associates as a professional witness in many of these cases. On the 31st day of July, 1915, the testimony of Alec Nail in this case was taken before William L. Bowie, who is deputy clerk for the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma and is engaged as a special in- vestigator in tlie office of the Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes at Muskogee. In reference to this case Alec Nail testified as follows : " Q. Do you recall a woman who claimed to be a descendant of tlie Wright family of Choctaws? — A. I recall a woman that clainjed to be a daughter of old Leonard Wright. " Q. Had you ever seen this womaja before you met her in Mr. Ballinger's office? — A. Never did. " Q. Who was Leonard Wright? — A. Well, he was a Choctaw. I was not acquainted with him like I was with Alford and the old governor. '*Q. How do you know he was a brother of the old governor? — ^A. He was said to be. " Q. Was he a brother of old Gov. Wright? — A. Yes, sir; Allen Wright's father at McAlester. "Were they full bloods? — ^A. Yes, sir; old Gov. Wright was a full blood. " Q. What would you say if you were told that Allen Wright did not have a brother? — A. Well, I would just have to take it, because I don't know ; he was said to be Alford Wright's brother, but I am not certain about it. " Q. I am talking about Allen Wright, who was at one time governor of the Choctaw Nation. — A. Yes, sir; I understand. "Q. Were you personally acquainted with this Leonard Wright? — A. No, sir; I don't know him. . -^ . -ut. "Q. Would you know him if you would see him?— A. No, sir; Allen Wright and the old governor I know. " Q How manv brothers did Allen Wright have?— A. I don't know that. "Q.Did you know any of them?— A. Alford was his brother; they say he is "Q. Do you know Alford?— A. Yes, sir. " Q. He was a brother of Gov. Wright?— A. Yes, sir. " Q Where did Alford live?— A. About 12 miles below Caddo. "q! Was he a full brother?— A. I don't know about that. " Q. You did not know him or any of them?— A. No, sir ; if an Indian is a cousin they claim them to be brothers. ■nr^-,,!,^ o " Q. Was this woman who claimed to be a daughter of Leonard Wright a negro? — A. Yes, sir; she was yellow. , ^, j. /■ j- 4.- "Q She was yellow ?-A. Yes, sir. I told them to send that (indicating papers in this case filed by Ballinger) to McAlester, but they wouldnt do it. Three Texas witnesses were there to that. .,,„„„, . mv,™ y,„A "Q You say they had three Texas negroes to witness there?— A. They had two i will say that. Bill McCombs brought them up here. "b Bill McCombs brought them here?— A. Yes, sir. ^ , ^ .,,„,• ut "Q. Did you make an affidavit for this woman ?-A. Only for the Wright fnmiiv I never saw the woman until that day. , . j. "Q Did you know Jack Wright?-A. Yes, sir; I don't think he was km to ^^"Q^WhaTdfre'^iion did Jack Wright live from Atoka ?-A. Southwest, I think. 424 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. "Q. How far?— A. I think about 7 or 8 miles. blood "Q. Was lie an Indian, a white man, or aarKey? — A. He was a tun u "Q. Did he have any sisters? — A. I don't know. vioarfl that " Q. Did he have a sister who married a Wimley?— A. I never ned-iu name before that I know of. _ , ■nr^.io-hi- hpinff "Q. Could you be mistaken about Jack Wright and Alford Wrigni ueiug brothers? — ^A. Sure; I don't remember ever saying that. _ .,, "Q. You could be mistaken about them being brothers of former truv. Wright?— A. Yes, sir; I don't know. wimlAv-J— A T "Q. Do you remember a woman by the name of Elmyra Wimiey. a. i don't believe I do." t r o PnirioTi The affidavit purporting to have been signed by you before Julius V^oiaen, a notary public, on June 24, 1915, filed by Mr. Webster Bnllmger witn the petition of Bertha Tolber for the enrollment of herself and family as citizens bv blood of the Choctaw Nation, is as follows : ' "Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 72 years ot ag% and that he lives at 1006 South Third Street Muskogee, Okla. " That he knows the applicant and that he was well and personally acquainted with the Wrights, who were always said to be and recognized as full-blood Choctaw Indians, and who she claims as her ancestors. " That the names of the older ones of the boys were Leonard, Alfred, and Jack Wright. I don't know how many sisters there were, but one of them married a Wimley, whom the applicant claims as her mother. "The above-named Wrights were all brothers, and were related in some way with Allen Wright, who was at one time the governor of the Choctaw Nation. "All of the Wrights above named and many others all lived south from Atoka and down on the mouth of Blue River, and they were all recognized Choctaw Indians. * "Affiant further states that the said mother of the applicant, Elmyra Wimley, lived, prior to her death, at what is now Tuska. Okla. Tliat the same place used to be called Peck. I don't know just how many children the said Elmyra Wimley had, but I do know that there was a bunch of them — seven or eight, anyway. Some of them died and they have scattered, and some of them now live in Muskogee. "This family were all considered and recognized as Choctkws and lived and worked around the neighborhood. "(Signed) Alec Nazi, (by thumb mark)." This testimony indicates that this ignorant old negro was made to swear to false statements to corroborate the false statements contained in the petition of the applicant. It also indicates clearly that the purported facts sworn to by Alec Nail were not within his knowledge. Then we must conclude — First. That the applicant is not an Indian — that she is a negro. Second. That she did not make application within the time required by law. Third. That the facts stated in her petition are false. Fourth. That the affidavits submitted in support of the petition are false. In view of these facts we consider it unnecessary to pursue the investigation further with a view to locating the applicant and the other witnesses. P. J. Hurley, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. DEP.4KTMENT OF THE InTEEIOE, United States Indian Service, Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Okla., November S, 1915.. Postma§tee, Canadian, Okla. SiE : Desiring to personally interview Bertha Tolber, age given as 23, said to be the wife of one James Tolber, in an official matter, I would thank you to promptly inform me, by indorsement hereon and under cover of the ihclosfed envelope, whether she resides within the delivery of your office, and, if so, whether in town or at what distance and in what direction in the country! If she does not reside within your delivery, any information you may furnish INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 425 t post-( Very respectfully, with respect to present post-office address and nearest town or railway station will be appreciated. Wm. L. Bowie, 0/ Special Investigation Service, Office of Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes. Bertha Tolber lives 4J miles northeast of here, near Wirth. I understand she gets her mail at Eufaula. Is this person white, Indian, or colored? Colored. I have been told that Jim Tolber works at the new M. K. & T. works on the Canadian River, near home on what is called the Island. I do not know these people personally. J. D. TiGNOR, Postmaster. PETITION NO. 13. Statement of P. J. Hubley, Attorney foe the Choctaw Nation, in re Peti- tion OF Jubdean Smyees foe Enrollment of Heeself and Family as Citi- zens BY Blood of the Choctaw Nation. petition of joedeana smyees, n±e givens, foe the eneollment of heeself and family as CHOCTAW INDIANS. Comes now Jurdean Smyres, nee Givens, and shows that she is 38 years of age and that she lives at Gatesville, Okla. That she is a Choctaw Indian by birth, by blood, by descent, by residence, and by recognition ; that she is the daughter of Adaline Pusley, and that the said Adeline Pusley was the daughter of Ellen Pusley, a full-blood Choctaw Indian, who lived and died in the Choctaw Nation. That the father of applicant was Ed Givins, who was a half-blood Choctaw Indian, who died when she was small. That applicant was born and raised about 7 or 8 miles southeast from Durant, and that she lived there until she moved to Hartshorne, Okla., where she was duly and lawfully married to Aaron Smiles ; that there was born to ' this union the following-named children, to wit : Harley Smyres, age 20 years ; Arthur Smyres, age 18 years ; Xenia Smyres, age 16 years ; Coy Smyres, age 15 years ; Adeline Smyres, age 14 years ; Jesse Smyres, age 13 years. That all the above-named children were born and raised in the Choctaw Na- tion and lived there until about 6 years ago, when I brought them to the Creek Nation, where they still live at the above-stated place of residence. Petitioner further shows that she was left an orphan and married a State man and had no one to help her or look after her enrollment, and she never knew how to help herself and never made any application. That she lived on the public domain all her life with her parents until she moved to Hartshorne, and then she moved in town and had to rent a house. That she and her said family have always been recognized as Choctaw Indians and lived with the Choctaws as members of the tribe. That she has done the very best she could to be enrolled — that is, the best she knew how to do. Wherefore petitioner prays that her name, Jurdean. Smires, and the names of her said children, Harley, Arthur, Zenia, Coy, Adeline, and Jesse Smyres, be placed on the approved roll of Choctaw Indians by blood, and that to them and to each of them be given their distributive share of the common property of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians the same as is given to all other such citizens so enrolled. JUEDEAN Smyees. State of Oklahoma, Muslcogee County, ss: Jurdean Smyres, nee Givins, being first duly sworn, on oath states that she is the above-named Jurdean Givins; that she has read over the above petition and knows the contents thereof, and that the matters and things therein con- tained are true. Jtjedean Smyees. 426 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 13th day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over to tlie affiant the above petition, and that she knew the contents thereof and tliat she stated that same was true. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) AFFIDAVIT or MAKY KOSS IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JUKDEAN SMTERS FOE THE ENROLLMENT OF HERSELF AND CHILDREN AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Mary Ross, being first duly sworn, on oath states that she is 29 years of age and that she lives in Haskell, Okla. That she is well and personally acquainted with the applicant and that she has known her for about five years. That she also knows her children ; that her baby boy is just one year younger than the youngest child of the applicant and that they go to school together; she also has a girl a year older, Adeline, that goes to school with the said boys, and the older ones are not going to school. She has six children altogether and they all live with her and their father. That she only knows who were the ancestors of the applicant from hearsay, but that she is informed they were Choctaw Indians. Mart Ross. State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this, the 13th day of April, 1915. I fur- ther certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that she knew the contents thereof and that she stated that same was true and that she was the , identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, l'917.) affidavit of W. M. JAMES IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JUEDEA SMYERS FOR the ENROLLMENT OF HERSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 70 years of age, and that he lives at Beeland, Okla. That he first became acquainted with the applicant about 15 years ago; at this time she was living with her husband on Blue River about 8 miles from Durant ; that they only had two children when he first knew her ; her husband was named Aaron Smyers. That he was not personally acquainted with the mother of the applicant, but that he knew about her ; her name was Pusley and she was said to be a full-blood Choctaw. That he did know her father ; his name was Ed Givins. I don't know how much Choctaw blood he was ; he was just considered a Choctaw Indian the same as the other Choctaw Indians that lived there in that part of the country. That he knows that she now lives at Catesville and that she has lived there for several years ; that he has seen her children, but does not know them per- sonally. W. M. James (his thumb print). State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 13th day of April, 1915. I fur- ther certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary Public. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 427 AFFIDAVIT OF ALEC NAIL IN SUPPORT OF THE PETITION OF JUDEAN SMYRES FOB THE ENROLLMENT OF HERSELF AND FAMILY AS CHOCTAW INDIANS. Alec Nail, being first duly sworn, on oath states, that he is 72 years of age, and that he now lives at 1206 South Third Street, Muskogee, Okla. That he has recently become acquainted with the applicant, but that he knows the persons that she states is her ancestors ; that he was well and personally acquainted with her said grandmother, Ellen Pusley, who was a full-blood Choctaw Indian. That she had two brothers, McAlester Pusley and Old Jack Pusley that were allotted as he has been informed ; that he was well and per- sonally acquainted with the daughter of Ellen Pusley named Adeline, but that he does not know who she married and never had heard until he met the applicant; that he did not know the father of the applicant nor does he know her family. Alec Nail (his thumb print). State of Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: Subscribed and sworn to be fore me this the 13th day of April, 1915 ; I fur- ther certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true, and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. [seal.] Julius Golden, Notary PuMic. (My commission expires June 2, 1917.) Department of the Interior, United States Indian Service, Five Civilized Tribes, Muskogee, Okla., November S, 1915. Postmaster, Porter, Okla. Sir: Desiring to personally interview Jurdena Smyres, (nee Givens), age given as 38, said to be the wife of Aaron Smyres or Smiles, and to have for- merly received mail at Gatesville, Okla., in an official matter, I would thank you to promptly inform me, by indorsement hereon and under cover of the inclosed envelope, whether she resides within the delivery of your office, and, If so, whether In town or at what distance and in what direction in the country. If she does not reside within your delivery, any information you may furnish with respect to present post-office address and nearest town or railway station will be appreciated. Very respectfully, Wm. L. Bowie, Of Special Investigation Service, Office of Superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes. November 9, 1915. Jurdena Smyres, post office. Porter, Okla., B. F. D. No. 3, Bos 51 ; lives near Gatesville, Okla. Is this person white, Indian or colored? Colored. Emmett H. Howard, Postmaster, Porter, Okla. statement of p. j. hurley, attorney for the CHOCTAW nation. In re petition of Jurdean Smyers for enrollment of herself and family as citi- zens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. The foregoing petition, and accompanying affidavits, was served upon me by Mr Webster Ballinger, an attorney at law of Washington, D. C. In this petition Jurdean Smyers makes application for enrollment of herself and her children as citizens by blood of the Choctaw Nation. We have been unable to locate the petitioner, in order to procure her testimony. She does not reside at the address given by her in the petition. In fact we find in a number of the petitions filed by Mr. Ballinger that the true addresses of the applicants are not given. With the statements contained in the petition and the affidavits attached thereto, and the testimony of the two persons whose affidavits are attached to the petition, we have sufficient evidence to identify the applicant, and to show that the claims made by her for enrollment of 428 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. herself and tlie members of her family as citizens by blood o^ t"^® *^^°f *^ Nation are fraudulent. Before beginning a discussion of the tacts, first call the attention of the committee to the law. „ First. Upon the face of the petition it is shown that neither the cuiei ap plicant nor her family resides in the Choctaw Nation. According to tne peu- tion they reside In Clarksville, a small town located in the Arkansas mver Bottom in the Creelc Nation near Muskogee. The chief applicant admits upon the face of her petition that she did not make application for enrollment oi herself or the members of her family during the period in which the rolls ot citizenship were being made. Section 34 of the supplemental agreement be- tween the Choctaw and Chickasaw people and the United States is as follows : "During the ninety days first following the date of the final ratification of this agreement, the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes may receive appli- cations for enrollment only of persons whose names are on the tribal rolls, but who have not heretofore been enrolled by said commission, commonly known as "delinquents," and such intermarried white persons as may have married, recognized citizens of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations in accordance with the tribal laws, customs and usages on or before the date of the passage of this act by Congress, and such infant children as may have been bom to recognized and enrolled citizens on or before the date of the final ratification of this agreement ; but the application of no person whomsoever for enrollment shall be received after the expiration of the said ninety days: Provided, That nothing In this section shall apply to any person or persons making applica- tion for enrollment as Mississippi Choctaws, for whom provision has herein otherwise been made." (32 Stat. L. 641.) Under this law the petitioner would, of course, be barred, as no application was filed within the required time. The Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes and the Dawes Commission had been receiving applications for enroll- ment of citizens in the Choctaw and Chicksaw Nations from June 10, 1896, up until 90 days after the passage of the act of July 1, 1902, which is quoted above, so that ample time was given to all resident applicants to file their petitions. It appears that these applicants were not residents of the Choctaw Nation on the 28th day of June, 1898. The act of Congress approved on that date embodied what is commonly known as the Atoka agreement be- tween the United States and the Choctaw and Chickasaw people. That agree- ment provided : "No person shall be enrolled who has not heretofore removed to and in good faith settled in the Nation in which he claims citizenship,:" (30 Stat L 491), a proviso following this provision to the effect that this pro- vision should not be construed to militate against whatever rights and privi- leges the Mississippi Choctaws had under treaties with the United States. These applicants are not and do not claim to be Mississippi Choctaws; conse- quently they would not be entitled to enrollment In the Choctaw Nation even if they had made application during the time in whiCh the rolls were being made. These applicants are barred on two legal grounds. First, they did not make application within the time required by law, and second, they were not residents of the Choctaw Nation on June 28, 1898. We will now discuss the facts. The chief applicant in this case states that the reason that application was not made for her and her children for en- rollment as citizens of the Choctaw Nation during the time that the rolls were being made is that she was an orphan. She does not state whether or not her children were orphans at tliat time, and we assume that her husband was living. We do not care to dispute Mrs. Smyers's statement to the effect that she was an orphan at the time the rolls were being made, but, according to her sworn statement, she is the mother of a child who was 20 years of age at the time she made the foregoing application. This child would have been 8 years of age at the time Imitation on filing application was placed in the act of 1902. Applications for children born after the passage of the act of July 1, 1902, could be filed up to and Including July 25, 1906. The rolls were not finally closed until March 4, 1907. According to the sworn statement of Mrs. Smyers she was the mother of six children in 1907, the youngest of whom was six years of age. No application was made for any, of these chil- dren during the time the rolls were being made. Under these circumstances the plea of Mrs. Smyers was left an,orphan would not seem to be entitled to great consideration as an excuse for the fact that she faade no application for enrollment during, the period which her application could have been received and considered. She may have been an orphan, but' she most certainly was not a minor. She had reached her majority before the closing of the rolls, INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 429 and was the mother of a family. She comes now, eight years after the clos- ing of the rolls, with the statement that she and her family were recognized members of the Choctaw Tribe. She offers no proof except her own assertion and the affidavits of two of the professional witnesses usually used by Mr. Bal- linger and his associates in enrollment matters. These witnesses are Alec Nail, a negro who signs by mark, and W. M. James, a negro who signs by mark. Alec Nail's affidavit in support of the plaintiff's petition in this case is as follows : "Alec Nail, being first duly sworn on oath, states that he Is 72 years of age, and that he now lives at 1206 S. 3d St., Muskogee, Okla. "That he has recently become acquainted with the applicant, and that he knows the persons that she states is her ancestors ; "That he was well and personally acquainted with her said grandmother, Ellen Pusley, who was a full-blood Choctaw Indian. That she had two brothers, McAlester Pusley and Old Jack Pusley, that were allotted, as he has been informed; "That he was well and personally acquainted with the daughter of Ellen Pulsey named Adeline, but that he does not know who she married, and never had heard until he met the applicant. "That he did not know the father of the applicant nor does he know her family. "Alec Nail (his thumb print). "State of Oklahoma, Mnskogee County, ss. "Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 13th day of Ajpril, 1915; I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that the same was true and that he was the identical person named therein as affiant. "[SEAL.] Julius Golden, Notary PuMio. "My commission expires June 2, 1917." At Muskogee, Okla., on July 31, 1915, Alec Nail, after having been first duly sworn by Mr. William L. Bowie, deputy clerk of the United States court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, on oath testified as follows : "Q. Do you remember a person named Jordeana Smyers, n6e Givens? — A. No sir, I don't remember her. " Q. In the affidavit filed with the application for the enrollment of this per- son, made by you on April 18, 1915, you state that you were acquainted with the applicant and that you knew the persons whom she stated were her ances- tors, and with her grandmother, Ellen Pusley, a full-blood Choctaw. Do you remember Ellen Pusley? — A. I remember the Pusleys, they were Choctaw In- dians; I don't remember though the woman who made that application. " Q. Do you remember the brothers of Ellen Pusley ? — A. Three of them, I do. "Q. What were their names? — ^A. George, Billy, and Josh. "Q. Who was Jack Pusley? — ^A. I don't know. "Q. You do not remember? — A. No, sir. "Q. Who was McAlester Pusley? — A. I don't remember. "Q. Do you remember Adaline Pusley? — A. No, sir; I just know Ellen and Elmyra." This affidavit is very carefully drawn. The affiant does not allege that he knows that this negro woman is in any manner related to Choctaw Indians by the name of Pusley. He is made to swear in the affidavit, however, that he knew two brothers and a sister of Ellen Pusley, who is alleged to be the grand- mother of the applicant, but when he attempts, in his testimony, to give the names of the brothers of Ellen Pusley he gives them an entirely new set of names, and swears positively that he does not know the persons whom he swears In his affidavit that he is well and personally acquainted with. The other professional witness used by Mr. Ballinger and his associates in citizen- ship matters, in his affidavit, positively identifies the applicant. This witness is W. M. James. His affidavit Is as follows : " W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he Is 70 years of age and that he lives at Beeland, Okla. " That he first became acquainted with the applicant about 15 years ago ; at this time she was living with her husband on Blue River, about 8 miles from Durant ; that they only had two children when he first knew her ; her husband was named Aaron Smyers. " That he was not personally acquainted with the mother of the applicant, but that he knew about her; her name was Pusley and she was said to be a full-blood Choctaw. 430 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. " That he did know her father ; his name was Ed Givins ; I don't know how- much Choctaw blood he was ; he was just considered a Choctaw Indian, tne same as the other Choctaw Indians that lived there in that part of the country. " That he knows that she now lives at Gatesville and that she has lived there for several years ; that he has seen her children, but does not know them per- sonally. "W. M. James (his thumb print). " State or Oklahoma, Muskogee County, ss: " Subscribed and sworn to before me this the 13th day of April, 1915. I further certify that I read over the above affidavit to the affiant and that he knew the contents thereof and that he stated that same was true and that he •was the identical person named therein as affiant. " [seal.] " Julius Golden, Notary PuUic. '■'- (My commission expires June 2, 1917." A full and complete copy of the evidence rendered by him in this case at Muskogee, Okla., on July 30, 1915, before an officer of the Interior Departmeflt, is attached hereto and marked Exhibit A. I will quote herein some of the testimony in order to give an idea of the reliability to be placed in affidavits filed by Mr. Ballinger in support of petitions. This witness is a keen criminal. At the time he rendered this testimony he was confined in the county jail at Muskogee. He is at the present time serving a term in the State penitentiary. The witness first testified that the applicant herein was a Creek freedman, and was a man and not a woman, and that the father of the applicant was named John Smyers. It finally dawned upon him that the applicant was a woman instead of a man and he changed his testimony accordingly. He then stated that the applicant was a woman and lived in the Little Deep Fork country in the Creek Nation, and was half Creek Indian and half negro. It may be seen from the affidavit that the witness swore, in support of the petition, that he had known the applicant 15 years ago when she was living with her husband 8 miles from Durant. He then proceeds to show that her mother was a full- blood Choctaw, and that her father was Ed Givens, but when asked the ques- tion : " When did she live at Durant? " he answered : " I do not know when she lived there." "Q. What direction did she live from Durant? — A. I don't know. "Q. When was the last time you saw her? — ^A. I haven't seen her for 4 or 5 ^ears until she came here." Again, in the same testimony : "Q. How do you know that she is one-half blood Choctaw Indian? — A. She said she was. "Q. She told you?— A. Yes, sir. "Q. That is all you know about it? — A. Tes, sir. "Q. Xou don't know her father or mother? — A. No, sir. "Q. You never knew her brothers or sisters? — ^A. No, sir. "Q. The first time you ever saw her was at Wewoka? — ^A. Yes, sir; that was the first time. "Q. Never saw her anywhere else outside of Wewoka? — A. No, sir. "Q. Not until she came here? — A. No, sir; I never knew what became of her until she came here. "Q. Do you know where Blue River is? — ^A. Yes, sir. "Q. Where is it? — A. In the Ohoctaw Nation. "Q. Where? — A. About 7 or 8 miles below Caddo; no, sir; Blue River is be- tween Caddo and Atoka. "Q. Did that woman ever live on Blue River? — A. Not that I know of. "Q. Have you ever been on Blue River? — ^A. Yes, sir. "Q. For some time? — ^A. Yes, sir ; several times. "Q. Did that woman have a husband that you know of on Blue River? — ^A. No, sir. "Q. Do you know anything about her children?— A. No, sir. "Q. Did you ever know a man by the name of Aaron Smyers? — ^A. No, sir. "Q. You do not know whether Aaron Smyers is her husband? — ^A. No, sir. "Q. Do you know whether this woman's mother's name was Pusley? — A. I don't know that. "Q. Do you know whether her father's name was Ed Givens? — ^A. No, sir. "Q. Did you ever know an Ed Givens, a Choctaw? — ^A. No, sir. * * *" The affidavit which is quoted above was then read to the witness and the question was asked: INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 431 "Q. Wliat do you know about this affidavit? — ^A. I don't remember making that. I don't know about it. "Q. Does this affidavit refresh your memory any? — A. No, sir; not a bit; it is a fraud." P. J. HUELEY, National Attorney for the Choctaw Nation. Exhibit A. Department op the Interior, Office of Superintendent Five Civilized Tribes, iluslcogee, Olcla., July 30, 1915. In the matter of the enrollment of various persons as citizens of the Choctaw Nation. W. M. JAMES, being first duly sworn by William L. Bowie, deputy clerk of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, on oath testifies as follows: Examination by William L. Bowie on behalf of the superintendent for the five civilized tribes : Q. What is your name? — ^A. William James. Q. Have you any middle initial? — A. William M. James. Q. You sign your name W. M. James? — ^A. W. M. James. Q. What is your age? — A. I was born in 1846. Q. Are you a citizen of any of the nations? — ^A. No, sir; I was born and raised In Kentucky. Q. You are not enrolled as a freedman, then? — A. No, sir. Q. Where did you say you were born — A. In Kentucky. Q. What county? — ^A. Washington County; Springfield is the county seat. Q. How far did you live from Springfield? — ^A. Three miles north. Q. How long did you live there? — A. Until I was 20 years old. Q. Then where did you go William? — A. I went from there to Louisville and worked on a boat from Louisville to New Orleans. Q. How long did you run on the boat?— A. I run on the boat during '67, '68, and part of '69. Q. Then where did you go from there?— A. Came out here. Q. From there to Muskogee? — A. To Indian Territory. Q. Where did you live in the Indian Territory ?— A. I stopped around Fort Gibson. Q. How long did you stay there? — A. I got work in the survey gang for the Katy in '70 and worked on the road to Denison, Tex. Q. How long did you work with the survey party?— A. I worked with it until they got through and then helped them to grade into Parsons. Q. How long were you in Parsons? — A. I didn't stay there over 3 or 4 days. Q. Where did you go then? — A. I worked on the railroad until it was com- pleted. I drove a supply wagon. Q. From Parsons down to Denison? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did you next settle down?— A. I stopped in Denison in '72, they completed the road in '72, and I stopped in Denison until July, '73. , , , Q. Where did you go next? — A. Came back to Muskogee. It was just started to build. „ » T-i • T Q. And have you resided here continuously ever since? — A. Ever since; i have not been out of town for years. Q Have you not been out of town?— A. No, sir ; not 20 miles away. Q. You have not been 20 miles away from Muskogee?— A. No, sir; to stay any length of time since 1873. * * * . „ . Q Are you acquainted with Jurdean Smyers?— A. Yes, sir. Q Who is this person? — A. Supposed to be a Creek freedman. O Man or woman? — A. A man — the one I know. o' Where does he live?— A. Used to live southwest of Okmulgee. q' How far?— A. Used to live out between Wewoka and Springfield. Q You say this person was a Creek freedman?— A. Yes, sir. n Enrolled'' — A. No; he was enrolled. Q Do you know whether this person was enrolled ?-A. No, sir; if he was he would not be making application. 432 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. Q. When did you first get acquainted with this person?— A. I got acquainted with his people in 1883. Q. Who was his father ? — A. John Smyers. Q. Who was his mother ? — ^A. I don't linow now ; I can't remember now. Q. Did you ever linow a woman by the name of Jurdean Smyers? — ^A. I cant get that name. "* Q. Well, did you know any other person * * *? — A. I knew a woman by the name of Julius Myers. Q. Where does she live ? — A. She used to live on Little Deep Fork. Q. Where is Little Deep Fork, what county? — A. In Okmulgee County. Q. Is she an Indian? — ^A. Well, she is one-half blood; used to live at Coweta. Q. What nation now? — A. Creek. Q. What is the other half ?— A. Colored. Q. Negro? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you know the parents of this person? — ^A. Yes, sir; Geo. Blyers is her uncle. • Q. Do you know a Choctaw Indian by the name of Jurdean Smyers? — ^A. Yes, sir ; used to be woman that lived at Wewoka. Q. This Smyers? — ^A. That is the same woman. Q. Did she have a Creek man? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Ever live at Durant ? — A. She said she did ; yes, sir. Q. Did you ever live at Durant? — A. I worked there some years ago, but she used to live at Wewoka. Q. She lived at Wewoka? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where does she live now? — A. I don't know, sir. Q. When did she live at Durant? — A. I don't knotr when she lived there. Q. What direction did she live from Durant? — ^A. I don't know. Q. When was the last time you saw her ? — A. I hav'nt seen her for four or five years until she came here. Q. Came where? — ^A. Here in town. Q. When did you see her here? — ^A. On the streets. Q. Did you identify her in this office downstairs ? — A. Yes, sir ; I identified her ; Alec Nail showed her to me. Q. Alec Nail showed her to you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Is that the first time you had ever seen her? — A. For a good while. Y. Where had you seen her before that? — A. Wewoka. Q. You saw her in Wewoka? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Wewoka is in the Seminole Nation? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. What were you doing in Wewoka? — A. I used to drive the mail hack. Q. What was she doing there? — A. She used to live there, or close to Wewoka. Q. She lived close to Wewoka? — ^A. Yes, sir; right on the line of the Creek Nation. Q. How far from Wewoka? — ^A. Lived about 7 miles, north and west. Q. Seven miles north and west? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Was she married? — A. She was living with a fellow ; I don't know whether she was married or not. Q. Who was the fellow? — ^A. Osesar Bowlegs. Q. Was she white, Indian, or colored? — A. I don't know; I suppose part Indian. Q. What part?— A. One-half. Q. And of what Indian blood? — A. Choctaw. Q. How do you know that she is one-half blood Choctaw Indian?— A. She said she was. Q. She told you? — ^A. Yes, sir. Q. That is all you know about it? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You don't know her father or mother? — ^A. No, sir. Q. You never knew her brothers or sisters? — ^A. No, sir. Q. The first time you ever saw her was at Wewoka? — A. Yes, sir; that was the first time. Q. Never saw her anywhere else outside of Wewoka? — ^A. No, sir. Q. Not until she came here? — A. No, sir; I never knew what became of her until she came here. Q. Do you know where Blue River is? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Where is it? — A. In the Choctaw Nation. Q. Where? — A. About 7 or 8 miles below Caddo — no, sir; Blue River is be- tween Caddo and Atoka. Q. Did that woman ever live on Blue River? — ^A. Not that I know of. IKDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 433 Q. Have you ever been on Blue River?— A. Yes, sir. Q. For some time? — A. Yes, sir; several times. Q. Did that woman have a husband that you know of on Blue Rivei-'— A No, sir. Q. Do you know anything about her children? — A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever know a man by the name of Aaron Smve'rs?— A No sir Q. Tou do not know whether Aaron Smyers is her husband? — A. No, sir. Q. Do you know whether this woman's mother's name was Pusle'v'— A I don't know that. 'Q. Do you know whether her father's name was Ed Givens?— A. No sir Q. Did you ever know an Ed Givins, a Choctaw? — A. No, sir. Q. Where is Gatesville? — A. I don't know exactly. Q. You do not know where this place is? — A. I don't know. Q. i'ou don't kno^^• whether this woman is living there now or not? A No, sir. Q. Where is Reeland?— A. Eleven and one-half miles southwest of Muskogee. Q. Did you ever live there? — A. Yes, sir. Q. When did you live there? — A. I have lived there ever since 1S99. Q. Where is your home now? — A. That is my home. O. You are an inmate of the county jail now, are you? — A. Yes, sir. Q. What crime are you charged with? — A. Check Q. What is the charge against you?— A. Identifying a check, identification. Q. Is the charge for false pretense? — A. Yes, sir. I read you an affidavit purporting to have been made by you on April 15. 1915, before Julius Golden, notary public, filed by Mr. Webster Ballinger with the petition of Jurdean Smyers for the enrollment of herself and family as Choctaw Indians. " W. M. James, being first duly sworn, on oath states that he is 70 years of age and that he lives at Reeland, Okla. " That he first became acquainted with the applicant about 15 years ago ; at this time she was living with her husband on Blue River about 8 miles from Durant ; that they only had two children when he first knew her ; her husband was named Aaron Smyers. " That he was not personally acquainted with the mother of the applicant, but that he know about her ; her name was Pusley and she was said to be a full blood Choctaw. " That he did know her father ; his name was Ed Givens ; I don't know how much Choctaw blood he was ; he was just considered a Choctaw Indian the same as the other Choctaw Indians that lived there in that part of the country. " That he knows that she now lives at Gatesville and that she has lived thei-e for several years ; that he has seen her children but does not know them personally. " (Signed) W. M. James, (by thumb mark)." Q. What do you know about this affidavit? — A. I don't remember making that. I don't know about it. Q. Does this affidavit refresh your memory any ? — A. No, sir ; not a bit ; it is a fraud. Q. As a matter of fact, James, did you ever see this woman before Alec Nail introduced her to you? — A. I took her to be the same woman. Q. You took her to be the same woman? — A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you know that she was the same woman? — A. She told me she was the same woman. Q. What did you say her name was- — ^A. Bowlegs at that time. Q. You knew her by the name of Bowlegs? — A. Yes, sir. Q. You did'nt know her by the name of Smyers? — A. No, sir. Q. Did not know her by the name of Smyers until Alec Nail introduced you? — A. No, sir. Q. What was her maiden name? — A. No, sir; I don't know. * * * This is not a complete copy of the testimony of this witness taken on the date given, but is a complete copy of his testimony concerning the applicant Jurdean Smyers. The Chairman. Have you concluded your statement, Mr. Ballinger ? Mr. Ballinger. Yes, sir. 31362—16 ^28 434 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. HoELEy. Mr. Ballinger made one statement highly in his favor that is not correct, that is, that no case was filed by him on which he relied entirely on the corroboration of Alec Nail and Webster Burton. I did not make search of the records for them, but I have here a number of cases corroborated only by the amda- vits of those two persons. Mr. Ballinger. Is not the statement of the claimant there, the affidavit of the claimant? Mr. Hurley. I beg pardon; you told the committee you did not rely entirely on the corroboration by these witnesses in any of the cases. Mr. Ballinger. I never said so. Mr. Hurley. The idea is he has relied entirely on the corroboratiou of those two witnesses in two-thirds of his cases or more, and here are the cases. The Chairman. You gentlemen will prepare the various records you wish, using care not to get into this record something that is of a scandalous or impertinent nature. Senator Curtis. I suggest that there be no duplication of this. There is no occasion for printing in this record what has already been printed in the House record. It is an unnecessary expense, and each member of the committee, I think, has seen the House hearings. The Chairman. That photograph is in the House hearings; so do not include that in the record, because we have that. Mr. Hurley. I have no desire to make any further statement or extension of my remarks in the record, except to submit 10 specific cases. The Chairman. You have been granted permission for that. Mr. Ballinger. In order that this may be fair, will not counsel furnish me a copy of these things he is putting in the record ? The Chairman. He is not obliged to, but he probably will. Mr. Hurley. I do not want to be unfair to Mr. Ballinger. Mr. Ballinger sent these cases to me and requested me to investigate them for the purpose of presenting to the committee, and I have his letter to that effect. Now his statement about my going before the Secre- tary of the Interior and inviting him in, that is all afterthought. He asked me to investigate these cases to be prepared to say to this committee or to the House committee that we would or would not admit to citizenship these applicants. Mr. Ballinger. I did not ask you to go secretly, though, and present them. Mr. Hurley. I do not consider that I am going very secretly. Senator Owen. Might this committee agree to the House pro- posals in regard to this per capita distribution ? The Chairman. You have heard the motion. Senator Page. I should like to ask Senator Owen one or two questions for my own information. Senator Owen. I shall be glad to answer. Senator Page. How much money, Senator, would be taken from the Treasury on this particular motion of yours ? Senator Owen. There would be $300 for the Choctaws and $200 for the Chickasaws. Senator Page. Amounting to how much? Senator Owen. Amounting to about how much, Mr. Meritt? INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 435 Mr. Meeitt. a payment of $300 per capita as authorized by the Indian appropriation bill to the 20,799 Choctaw Indians entitled to this payment would require $6,239,700. The Choctaws have a total credit now of $7,888,901.07. To make a $200 per capita payment as authorized by the item in the appropriation bill to the 6,304 Chicka- saw Indians entitled to this payment would require $1,260,800 The Chickasaws have to their credit $2,035,338.47. Senator Owen. What is the estimate of the undistributed prop- erty I OK("^nAr,^A^"'^" "'■^^•^ '^^^^ property estimated from $30,000,000 to Senator Curtis. Of the joint property of the two tribes? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Senator, do you think it is for the good of the Indians that we take $7,000,000 or $8,000,000, that I think is substantially what it is, and pour it out there in one lump sum to those Indians? Do you not think they will be severed from their money in a very short time? Would it not be better to give it to them in lesser sums and extend it over two or three years ? Senator Owen. I think they are entitled to it from every point of view. First, because the treaty which they made was made with the express stipulation that it should be paid to them, and that treaty was made in 1902, 14 years ago, and one-third of those people have died since without getting any money benefits. Now it is true that some of these people receiving $300 would in all human prob- ability waste some of it, perhaps some of them would waste all of it in a large community of that kind, but that would be true also with regard to white men to whom you pay a debt. They would use it, they might use it unwisely, but that would not justify you not paying them what was due them when alive. Senator Page. I was talking to some one who was friendly to your motion here, Senator, and I asked him what per cent of the Indians were competent to take charge of that fund. As I understand it, it means $1,500 to $2,000 to a family, and he said 75 per cent of them; he said 50 per cent of them would probably be separated from their money within 60 days, I think that was it, and 75 per cent in six months. That was his judgment. Senator Owen. I think it quite likely they would spend it. That is what they want with it. They want to spend it, they want to use it, and why should they not use it if it belongs to them ? Senator Page. If they are not competent to take charge of it, it seems to me better to dole it out to them in smaller quantities. Senator Owen. If you give them $20 at a time they will not be able to buy a horse, while if you give them enough to buy a horse or give them enough to build a house, they will buy a horse or build a house. Do you not supervise those expenditures in some way, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. We supervise the expenditures of the incompetent In- dians. Senator Owen. Does that not answer your question, Senator Page? Senator Page. Will you please explain then what will be done with this money under this bill, we pay some $200 and some $300, what would be done with this money, would it not be paid over to the Indians as they saw fit? 436 INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; not in that case. May I read, the item in order to make it clear. It will be fomid on page 336 of the House hearmgs. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby authorized to pay to the enrolled members of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians of Okla- homa entitled under existing law to share in the funds of said tribes, or to their lawful heirs, out of any moneys belonging to said tribes in the United States Treasury or deposited in any bank or held by any official under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior, not to exceed $300 per capita, in the case of the Choctaws, and $200 per capita in the case of the Chickasaws, said payment to be made under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe : Provided, That in cases where such enrolled members, or their heirs, are Indians who by reason of their degree of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Secretary of the Interior may, in his discretion, withhold such payments and use the same for the benefit of such restricted Indians : Provided further, That the money paid to the enrolled members as provided herein shall be exempt from any lien for attorneys' fees or other debt contracted prior to the passage of this act : Provided further. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby author- ized to use not to exceed !p8,000 out of the Chickasaw and Choctaw tribal funds for the expenses and the compensation of all necessary employees for the dis- tribution of the said per capita payments. In other words, we are paying direct to the competent Indians their money under this item, and we will deposit it in the local banks to the credit of the incompetent Indians and see that that money is used for their benefit. Senator Page. What percentage, Mr. Meritt, would you think are restricted ? Mr. Meritt. I would say that there are probably 30,000 Indians — between 30,000 and 35,000 Indians — in the Five Tribes, who are still restricted; about 75,000 enrolled members, including freedmen, havfi had their restrictions removed. Senator Page. I did not get the percentage — the percentage that are restricted of those to whom this fund applies? Mr. Meeitt. About 25 per cent. Senator Page. Seventy -five per cent you would pay over direct? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Geonna. Do you think it would be possible to withhold the money from the incompentent Indians after enacting this law? Would they not know that their fellow Indians would get this money and would they not be liable to ask for the same treatment that the others received? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir ; we would not have any difficulty along that line. The full-blood Indians, those that are incompetent, would have their money deposited to their credit.' Senator Page. Is not the clamor a great deal stronger on the part of the whites who are there and who hope to get this money into their possession than on the part of the Indians? Senator Owen. I have not heard of any clamor on the part of the whites. The matter has been pending several years. It was passed in the last bill and the bill failed, as you knoM' ; therefore there was not action taken. It passed both in the House and in the Senate by a three-fourths vote, overwhelmingly voting in favor after a discussion of the matter very fully. I know no reason in the world why we should not carry out our agreement with these people, especially since the incompetents are safe-guarded. Senator Page. I presume you are right about it. I can not help the feeling, however, that here is an action on our part that is going INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 437 to result in distributing to the whites of Oklahoma some $5,000,000 ; that it is so patent that in six months your" white brothers there who want this money will have it, and that a very small part will be with the Indians, that I would rather piece it out and give them $50 in- stead of $200 and see if at least we could not keep those incompetents that are included Senator Owen. I could not justify not paying a debt to you for fear somebody in your State might get the money. The Chairmax. Senator Page, in this capital, the most intelligent, enlightened city in the country, we have 20,000 people getting a salary, and not 1 per cent of the 20,000 saves his salary ; there is a clamor all the time for an increase in salaries. I have taken pains to investigate and certainly there are 20,000 who do not save their salaries ; then why should we deprive these people of their money ? Senator Owen. There are two classes provided by the Indian Of- fice. Those who are recognized as incompetent are protected by the Indian Office. Senator Page. Senator, I do not want to pursue this too far, but I should like to know if it is not true that a Member of the National Congress, I will not say whether he is a Senator or Eepresentative, I will leave that so indefinite that you will not have to particularize, but is it not true that he has issued a circular giving as one of the reasons why he should be returned to the American Congress the fact that he has succeeded in having some $7,000,000 or $8,000,000 turned out to the whites of Oklahoma ? Senator Owen. I am sure 1 do not know anything of that. It is a very extraordinary statement, if he has made it; it seems to be a very surprising plea for him to make, because the only justification of this disbursement is a treaty provision in which the Government of the United States pledges itself to distribute these funds to these particular people, the Government safeguarding the incompetents. I think a Member of Congress is entitled to no credit for asking the discharge of an obligation by the Federal Government, and to make a plea that he is entitled to great credit for it is absurd. Senator Page. Would you think a real friend of the Indian, a man who had no sort of regard for the whites of Oklahoma, that a real friend of the Indians of Oklahoma would think it best that this treaty provision be carried out by emptying $7,000,000 down there among those poor fellows, when it is contended Senator Owen. Your whole conception is based on the idea that you are paying this money out into a rat hole to be divided among them ; that conception is not justified by the facts. The incompetent class is cared for by the Indian Office ; those who are competent have just as much right to receive a sum due to them as you have. That is all there is about it. Senator Page. I presume as a legal proposition you are right. Senator Owen. Not as a legal right; it is a moral right. Senator Page. .But whether a debt should be paid, if it is a debt, and I have no doubt it is Senator Owen. One-third of them are already dead. We may wait until the others die and give it to their children for some future generation, but I should like to see them enjoying some of it while they are alive, even if they do not use it wisely I think they might be permitted to spend some of it before they die. 438 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. Senator Page. I do not think they are capable of spending it. I think their white neighbors would spend it. Senator Owen. I think that is unjust to them. The Indian, of course, is a man who does not care for the acquisition of property and does not, as a rule, care for the maintenance of property; his ideals do not run in that direction, and for that reason he does sometimes spend his money improvidently, and for that reason the incompetent class are safely cared for by the Government, and this bill provides that the incompetent class shall be protected. Senator Page. I can not rid myself of what seems to me a responsi- bility in the matter. Senator Owen. Of course we should all feel a responsibility in it. Senator Page. My feeling of responsibility goes so far that I hesi- tate to vote to turn out $7,000,000 where I know that in six months, or in a very short time, 75 per cent of it will find its way from those Senator Owen. Senator Page, a great deal of that money will be invested in young cattle and hogs, and those people will undertake to make their living out of it, and they are entitled to undertake to make their living out of it. They have got no cattle and no hogs in many cases, and I think they ought to be permitted to have that op- portunity. Senator Page. If I could know where that would be I would have no objection. But, as I said before, I took this matter up with one friendly to your measure and asked him to give his candid opinion, and he said he thought 75 per cent — he made two statements — he said, "I think 50 per cent will find its way into the hands of the whites within either 30 or 60 days, and 75 per cent within 6 months." Senator Pittman. If you should give $200 to any white man, any intelligent white man who buys clothes and shoes and horses or any- thing else, how long do you think he would keep that $200? Senator Owen. If you give me $200 I will spend it before the week is out. Senator Page. This goes to families. You give $300 to each mem- ber of a family, and there are five or six in a family, there is five times 300 or six times 300, which equals $1,500 or $1,800, going to one family absolutely incompetent to take care of that fund. Senator Owen. You are disregarding the commissioner's care of those incompetent which he exercises. Senator Page. If it is true that 75 per cent will be dissipated Senator Oa^tsn. No, Senator, you are ignoring the fact that these incompetents are under the supervision of the Indian Office and protected. Senator Page. I will not take the attention of the committee any longer. I am simply going to save my countenance, if I can, by voting against your motion, Senator. Senator Geonna. I was going to say just one word. There is a great deal of force in what Senator Owen says — that the Government should fulfill its promises to these Indians. However, there are two things which worry me somewhat. One is that I do not know whether these Indians will get the benefit of this per capita payment that they ought to get. I was under the impression, and I am under the impression now, that some provision ought to be made that a certain amount of this money ought to go for school purposes. INDIAK APPrfbPRIATION BILL. 439 Senator Owen. We are conducting the schools out of other funds, you know. Senator Gronna. I understand that; still Congress has to make additional provisions for that ? Senator Owen. For those in certain, counties, yes. Senator Johnson. I was going to say, Senator, you would not feel if this money belonged to the Indians that we should tell the Indians before they got it what they would have to do with it, would you? Senator Geonna. I certainly would tell them what to do with it as long as they are our wards, as long as we are their guardians. I feel that it is our duty to tell them what to do with it, and in every way to help them to use it most intelligently. Senator Owen. That is done with the incompetent class. Senator Johnson. When this property has been distributed will there not be a claim against the Government of the United States, set up by these Indians who were refused? Will those Indians not come to Congress asking for millions of dollars ? Senator Owen. The answer to that is that these rolls were ordered to be made up in 1896, and the persons were invited to make their applications. The Dawes Commission continued that during 1897, 1898, 1899, and for 10 years, and finally the Congress of the United States by an act gave a year's warning and closed the rolls March 4, 1907, after 11 years of controversy; and subsequent to that time, on a plea that there were some who were o\'erlooked by the inves- tigators, or who had some equity, we had a report made from the Interior Department, and we enrolled 700 — I forget the exact number — as being all of those who had any equitable claims to enrollment. That was some years after. I think probably two years, maybe three, in 1914, probably. The Chairman. In was in the Indian bill. Senator, 1914. Senator Owen. In the Indian bill of 1914, and that was believed to have settled the controversy absolutely. Now these cases are brought up by Mr. Ballinger, and he is urging that these people be enrolled. 1 think the matter is closed and ought to remain closed, and I do not think they have any case ; I do not think they can establish any case. It must be remembered that the mere fact of a part of Indian blood does not give a legal right, but they must not only be of the blood but must have conformed to other conditions ; they must have lived in the country. The Supreme Court held in the case of the Eastern Cherokees, who were full-blood Indians, that by long sepa- ration they had broken themselves off and could not h»A e the rights of citizens in the Cherokee Nation unless they removed to the Chero- kee Nation and were admitted in due form. In the case of the other five tribes, the Congress of the United States, June 28, 1898, in which was called the Curtis bill, provided that unless they had previous to the date of that bill established residence in good faith that they were barred by that fact. There was one exception made to that, and that was the case of the Mississippi Choctaws ; by the treaty of 1830 they appeared to have reserved certain rights of citizenship coincident with living in Mississippi, and that matter went to the court and it was held that those who had not removed would be barred by that fact. The case of Jack Amos was passed on in the Stephens case, which involved many citizenship questions and many 440 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. citizenship cases. Afterwards the Choctaws compromised with the Mississippi Choctaws in 1902 and admitted some 1,600 of them who were full-blood Indians and who consented to the conditions imposed by Congress, but that was the fmal settlement, and the Choctaws in that case made a very great concession, in this, that it appeared from the evidence of the Dawes Commission report that the Missis- sippi Choctaws were unable to prove that their ancestors had com- plied with the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830 in the first place, and were unable to prove, in the second place, that they were the lineal descendants of such persons, so that on two lines of evi- dence, either one of which was fatal to them, they were unable to furnish the evidence necessary. The Chocktaws waived that requirement in order to give recogni- tion to those who were willing to remove to the Choctaw country and 1,600 did remove and became identified with the Choctaws, and be- came citizens of the Choctaw Nation. Some of my own people, my aunt for example, who was born in the Cherokee Nation and who is part Cherokee, moved into Virginia and lived there. Some of the children moved back into the Cherokee Nation and established a resi- dence before June 28, 1898. Those of Jier children who were living there previous to June 28, 1898, were enrolled as Cherokee citizens; those who did not establish citizenship before that time were denied, and I was content with it because it was a reasonable rule that those who had separated themselves voluntarily and continued the separa- tion from the tribe should not be admitted to exercise the rights of citizenship in a community which they had voluntarily separated themselves from and had persisted in. So this matter has been thor- oughly threshed out and I think there is no danger whatever to the United States from any claim made on account of any of these citizen- ship matters. Undoubtedly there are some few persons who might be able to set up and prove that they were of the Indian blood and who, perhaps, if they had exercised suiRcient diligence, might have been enrolled at one time, but even in such cases, under the common understanding, there must be some time at which an end shall be brought to litigation that we should establish by the decisions when the decisions shall have been maintained, and I think the matter was patiently gone over. Many of the cases that were before the Dawes Commission came on appeal to the Interior Department and from there were sent back and came again to the Interior Department, and came from the Interior Department as many as three times, and cer- tainly the Congress of the United States has exercised the greatest liberality with regard to it and the greatest patience. It would open Pandora's box to open the rolls of our country, and for that reason the legislature of the State has petitioned Congress that it should not be done. The Choctaws and Chickasaws and other tribes are unani- mous with regard to that, and they are quite right about it because it would cause the most serious disturbance to reopen that question. The Chairman. Are there any further remarks? Senator Clapp. I might say^ Senator Owen, that ex-Senator Blair, at the last session, I think, at his request, we inserted as a limitation against paying these contracts, these words [reading] : Except where contracts have been heretofore approved by the Secretary of the Interior, in accordance with existing law, wliich contracts tiie Secretary is authorized to settle and discharge. INDIAN APPKOPBIATIOlSr BILL. 441 Senator Clapp. With this I ask to have included the following (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) „ „ „ , Washington, D. C, February 26, 1916. Hon. Henky F. Ashurst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate, Washiuffton, D. C. Sie: We respectfully request that the following amendment be added to the Indian Appropriation bill on page 34, line 2, after the word " act " "Except where contracts have been approved by the Secretary of the In- terior in accordance with existing law, which contracts the secretary Is authorized to settle and discharge." The act of April 30, 190S, contains the followins; provision : "That contracts, heretofore or hereafter made by and between persons stricken by the Secretary of the Interior from the final rolls of the Five Civilized Tribes, and attorneys employed by them to secure their restoration to the rolls, shall be valid and enforceable when approved by the Secretary of the Interior in their original or in such modified form as he may deem equitable and not otherwise; and such contracts as are approved as herein provided when recorded in the county where such land is located, shall be a lien in the event of the restoration of such persons to the rolls against allotted lands or tribal funds of the persons so restored to or given rights upon said rolls " (35 Stat, 70; 3 Kappler, 338.) We were the attorneys for certain persons who were unlawfully stricken from the rolls by the Secretary of the Interior, and by proceedings in court we procured their enrollment and they are now enjoying full rights as members of the Choctaw, and Chickasaw Tribes. We had contracts with these persons, and on account of the difficulty in collecting our fees we agreed with the then Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Mr. Leupp, that we would reduce them if there was a way of insuring their payment, and we agreed with the depart- ment to permit the secretary to fix the fees on* the understanding that the department would recommend to Congress that we have a lien on the allot- tees' lands and funds for the amount approved by the secretary. Congress thereupon passed the above provision, and under it the secretary 1ms approved a contract for $750 in favor of former Senator Henry W. Blair, of New Hampshire, for securing ■ tlie enrollment of John Calvin Gray ; one in favor of Kappler & Merillat, James K. Jones, and Charles M. Fechheimer, of Chicasha, Okla., for $400, for securing the enrollment of William T. Lancaster ; one in favor of Charles M. Fechheimer, of Chicasha, Okla., and Eugene Hamilton for $400, for securing the enrollment of Arthur Jennings, and one in favor of Charles M. Fechheimer, of Chicasha, Okla., and Eugene Hamilton, for $400, for securing the enrollment of Clyde Jennings. We hardly think that It is the intention of Congress, in view of the legisla- tion of 1908, and the action of the department in approving our liens, now to pass an act invalidating our liens. Sve have acted in perfect good faith in this matter and have waited since 1908 for our money, and unless the pro- vision on page 34 of the IilU as amended as pi'oposed above, we are afraid an injustice will be done to us. We may add that practically the same amendment was submitted to your committee last session ; that the Indian Office reported favorably thereon, as will be seen by consulting the hearings of last year, page 309 ; and your com- mittee adopted the amendment, and we understand the amendment was agreed to in conference, but the Indian appropriation bill failed of passage. Trusting that this amendment will be favorably acted upon, we are. Yours respectfully, Henry W. Blair. Charles J. Kappler. Chas. H. Merillat. James K. Jones. Senator Clapp. Now, Senator Blair is sick at home and could not be here. Senator Owen. That refers to just a few cases. I have no objec- tion to that. 442 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. The Chairman. That was agreed to last year? Senator Owen. Yes. . Senator Clapp. With your permission I will ask that it be in- serted in the pending bill. Senator Owen. That is agreeable to us. The Chaieman. Are there any further remarks? Senators Curtis. The limitation was put in the Curtis Act of 1898 because of the fact that Congress had in treating with the Five Tribes authorized them to enact laws in reference to citizenship. They have passed laws to the effect that people who voluntarily left their territory and became citizens or residents of the States were not entitled to enrollment, and in preparing the bill I discovered a number of years had been given the Indians to return, and so to carry out that law I fixed the period they should be there upon the passage of the law, June 28, 1898. I just say that so the committee may know why the limitation was put into the act. Senator Owen. It has been justified by the history of it. Senator Curtis. There is no question about that. But there is one thing that worries me in this case somewhat. I do not think Ave have the right to raise the question on about 60 per cent or 75 per cent of these Indians that was raised by Senator Gronna. If he will remember, about 60 or 75 per cent of the Indians have been removed from the jurisdiction of Congress; that is, they have been made citizens and they are no longer the wards of the Government. There are only about 30 per cent now under restrictions, and iji dealing with that 30 per cent it seems to me that the amendment would take care of them*; that is, it authorizes the commissioner to handle the money for the benefit of the incompetent of the 30 per cent. But in looking over this case and studying it years ago, I find some 2,700 applications filed that were not acted on by the department. I think of those cases only 10 families were of the Mississippi Choctaws and the others were applicants who claimed rights as being members of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes. Those cases were not acted upon; Congress a couple of years ago, so I am informed, during my involuntary absence for two years, in- vestigated this case and enrolled some of them. I have always thought the rights of the 2,722 Indians should be investigated thor- oughly and completely, either by the Department or by Congress, because they were not left off by any act of their own, and because no member of the department, I think, could be criticised because Congress limited the time, and Congress thought it had given them all the time that was necessary. The question now is, is there enough money here to take care of these people should Congress in the future conclude to enroll them. I believe in view of the fact that the tribes have some thirty-odd million dollars of tribal funds, there is sufficient funds to satisfy any rights they may have, and for the reasons given very briefly by me, I shall vote for this amendment. Senator Lane. I think the point ought to be well considered; we ought to be well satisfied. If there are others who are justly entitled to a portion of this money you are diminishing the amount. Senator Curtis. No ; there is plenty to pay them. Senator Lane. No difference if they take Senator Curtis. If they were enrolled. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 443 Senator Lane. Then you will have to have separate legislation for them. Why can it not be provided for in here, to deduct out the pro- portionate amount they would be entitled to, and then go ahead and make the appropriation? Senator Curtis. There is plenty of money left. There will be $30,000,000. Senator Lane. There would not be any if that were to go the same way. Senator Cmms. There would be $30,000,000 left they could be paid out of. Senator Lane. If they keep on getting it, as in this case, there will be nothing, and there will be less left than there was if you spend a portion of it. That puts it right back to what I said in the begin- ning, that the funds ought to be proportioned. Senator Curtis. They would be given their pioportionate shares? Senator Lane. They would have less leverage here and less oppor- tunity than if it goes in now. Senator Curtis. I think not, with $30,000,000 undisposed of prop- erty. Senator Lane. AVhy not deduct that amount, whether it repre- sents 1,000 or 1,'200 Indians, and then pay the balance to these others, and then when you pay again keep on doing the same thing. Senator Owen. The commissioner has just stated there is between $20,000,000 and $30,000,000. Senator Lane. You might have $250,000,000, and if you paid out one-half there would be that much less left to divide up. Senator Owen. The pro-rata share has a fixed value, so that what you say would not really affect the interests of these persons if there were any, if they should be hereinafter enrolled. Senator Lane. There are certain numbers of them, I think it has been pretty generally conceded, who have a right on the roll, who have not been ^ble to establish it for one reason or another. Now if the number could be estimated and deducted from this amount, say, if you appropriate $7,000,000, take out what would cover the share of these others, and let them have the rest, you would have that much more left when they come in here with a claim, when they go into court and make the Government pay the money. Senator Curtis. There is no danger of that because the courts have decided that Congress has the final word in this matter, and Congress having fixed the date for the closing of the rolls and left them off, so far as the courts are concerned they would hold these people have lost their rights. The only question is whether or not Congress will in the future act upon their cases. Senator Owen. The matter is entirely and exclusively in the hands of Congress? Senator Curtis. Yes ; the matter is entirely and exclusively in the hands of Congress, the courts so held that there was no question about that. But there is another side to this case that we ought to state now before the record is closed. A good many people say the folks now there had not a fair chance. They were given many »years, and I want to say that Congress was influenced to close these rolls as it did because of the character of the testimony filed in the en- rollment cases. We discovered on investigation that they had forged 444 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. seals, that men justices of the peace who were supposed to have swoiHi persons whose names were signed to the documents had been dead 10 or 15 years before the oath was taken before them, and we discovered that the records were filed for the enrollment of people, especially the Chickasaws and Choctaws, and those rolls were placed in buildings, and the buildings burned, so that Congress and the officials could not inquire into the truthfulness of those affidavits and run them down. And it was, in view of all this, that Congress did fix at least a date to close these rolls to stop this kind of conduct. I think it is only fair to the Congress and to the members of the com- mission who looked into the cases that the statement be made. The Chairman. But, Senator, the rolls were not closed summa- rily. A year elapsed after the act passed until the rolls were closed ? Senator Curtis. They were given plenty of time, it seems to me. The time was extended from time to time. The only question is as to these men who filed their claims. Because of the time it took to get reports from Oklahoma up here the department did not have time to act on those 2,000 and some applications — I think they involve about 6,000 names all told. I have always thought that those people who filed their applications in time should have a day in court. I mean by that they should have a hearing before Congress, or we should authorize some one to look into those cases. I have always be- lieved they lost out, not because of any lack on their part, but be- cause the department did not have time to act upon those cases, and I understand stamped them " disallowed," because they did not have time to inspect and look into the applications. I also understand — I have not looked at the record, but it is my recollection — that an amendment was offered to the Indian appropria- tion bill at the session of Congress following the closing of the rolls, and following this act of the department, but it was stricken out on the floor of the Senate on a point of order. I am not sure about that. Senator Owen. They did afterwards, I think, actually go into the records. Senator Gronna. A couple of years ago Ave provided for the enrollment of 400 who were held as having equities by the Depart- ment of the Interior, so that -seven years after the rolls had been closed in 1907, when the department had seven years in which to go through it, they reported that they thought there were 400 who were entitled, equitably, to be enrolled, and we did enroll them by a special act. Senator Curtis. AVas that after an investigation of the 2,700 applications ? Senator Owen. I suppose so, Senator. I do not know, but I sup- pose that is the case. Senator Gronna. May I ask Senator Curtis a question? The Chairman. Certainly. Senator Gronna. May t ask you. Senator Curtis, whether the statement you made as to the method of setting up proof — does that apply. to the Mississippi Choctaws? Senator Curtis. No, we did not discover anything of that kind in regard to the Mississippi Choctaws. That matter all came up after- wards, and it was handled largely by the officers of the department on INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 445 the ground in Mississippi. Some of them, quite a number of them, came up to Oldahoma and made a showing, but officers were sent to Mississippi. What I had reference to was other applicants for en- rollment in the Choctaw and Chickasaw country ; and for that matter in the Cherokee and Creek country there were persons of that kind. Senator Owen. I have no doubt they enrolled thousands of people who were not entitled to enrollment at all by fraudulent testimony, and that is what the Indians are so sore about, and that is why they have been so deeply opposed to reopening the rolls, because they thought if the rolls were again reopened they would again be sub- jected to the same character of false testimony, of which they felt they had been the victims before. Senator Gronna. I wish to make this statement to the committee. My interest in this matter has really been stimulated, I might say, by the eloquent pleas made by the two senators from Mississippi. On various occasions I have listened to Senator Williams, and he has on every occasion demonstrated that really there is merit, some merit, there must be some merit, to the claims of those Mississippi Choctaws. Senator Curtis. Senator Williams brought this matter to my attention Vv^hen this bill was originally prepared, and it was on his request that an item was put in protecting the interests of the Missis- sippi Choctaws, but I have been looking over the record, and if you look over it, you will find that plenty of time was given those Mis- sissippi Choctaws, that is in my judgment, and if my recollection serves me right when the question was up in Congress they were given six months extra time in which to report. I think Senator Williams asked for a year, and we compromised on the floor of the House on six months. In addition to that the Government appro- priated money to aid and assist these people; the Government sent the officers down there, put them on the ground, paid all the expenses, and appropriated money to pay the expenses of the Mississippi Choc- taws to come up to Oklahoma. You must bear in mind they had no right unless they did remove to Oklahoma. They must go there and go on the land. There are a lot of these people claiming rights who never atempted to go to Oklahoma. Then again, looking over this list, I find there are but 10 families of Mississippi Choctaws that were not acted on for want of time. That was the report of the Sec- retary of the Interior. Senator Geonna. If you will allow me to interpose just there? Senator Curtis. Certainly. Senator Geonna. We do not deal with the Indians strictly accord- ing to rules of law, do we ? Senator Curtis. That is true; yes, sir. Senator Geonna. Why should not an Indian, because he does not live on a certain place, if he is of the same blood, why should he not have some equity ? Senator Curtis. I will tell you. Because in the treaty these peo- ple, their ancestors, were given large tracts of land in Mississippi, much larger in amount than would have been given them in the Indian Territory. . , . Senator Gronna. I agree that is a fair answer, but I cannot feel Senator Curtis. Wait a moment. There was also a further con- dition* they were parties to the treaty, a further condition that in 446 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. order to have rights in Oklahoma, then the Indian Territory, they must remove to the Indian Territory; they must settle among their brothers in the Indian Territory, and as fast as they came to that country they were given their rights, except, I think, annuity rights, which they had waived in the treaty. Senator Owen. Yes. Senator Curtis. And not only that, but the Chickasaw and Choc- taw Tribe of Indians time and again passed resolutions inviting them to come, and in some instances I think offered to pay their expenses. Senator Owen. They did pay their expenses. Senator Curtis. And did everything they could to get them there. Then, Senator, this question, has been pending in Congress and was agitated for years, and they had time and they did not remove ; and I think, in view of the authority Congress gave these tribes, and all that was done, that their rights were protected as fully as they could have expected them to be protected under the circumstances. I mean the Mississippi Choctaws, now. I have taken great interest in the Mississippi Choctaws for the same reason that Senator Gronna has, namely, because Senator Williams from the very first has been a very ardent supporter of the rights of those people, and I took an interest in it first at his request and have continued to do so, and now if I thought a great injustice was done those people I would not vote for this amendment, but I believe if they have any rights there will be sufficient money left to pay them. The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? Senator Gronna. If I thought that the Mississippi Choctaws knew the conditions, that this legislation was not made without their knowledge, of course I should not oppose it. If they had had their day in court, if they understood it, but I will not agree that it is a fair proposition to a tribe of Indians, or to a number of In- dians I Avill say, that simply because they did not live in a certain particular place, that they were not entitled to property which is held by their tribe. Senator Curtis. You must remember that they were exempted from the act of June 28, 1898. Senator Gronna. That is not the way we are legislating for In- dians. Senator Curtis. They were especially exempted and were the only branch of any of the tribes that were exempted. They were given additional time and after that the agents of the Government were sent down there to aid and assist them, and the Government, as I said, appropriated money to help move them to Oklahoma. The only ones set out were those who had been in Oklahoma or in the Indian Territory at some time, and had moved of their own volition. The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? If not the sec- retary will call the roll. ' The question being taken by yeas and nays, resulted : Yeas five, as follows : Senators Pittman, Owen, Clapp, Curtis and Ashurst. Nays two, as follows: Senators Page and Gronna. The Chairman. The yeas have it, and the proposal of the House is agreed to. That finishes Oklahoma. We now have Minnesota. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 447 RED RIVEK AND FLAMBEAU (WIS.) DISPOSITION OF TIMBER. Senator Clapp. Before we take up Minnesota, on behalf of Sena- tor La Follette, I want to call the committee's attention to the amendment to S. 4383 to authorize the Secretary of the Interior to dispose of the timber on the so-called lands and swamp lands within the Eed River and the Flambeau Indian Reservations, which has not only been approved by the Department but somewhat earnestly urged. Senator Curtis. Is that Senator Nelson's amendment? Senator Clapp. No, this is for Wisconsin. Senator Gronna. Is it in the original bill? Senator Clapp. No, sir. Senator Gronna. It must have been estimated for since the bill came from the House then? Mr. Meritt. We have an item found on page 408 of the Hearings of the House covering the matter. Senator Page. I think I have some knowledge of this, Mr. Chair- man. It has been a matter of dispute for a long time as t(^ whether these lands belonged to the Indians or to the State, and the time has come when they ought to be disposed of, I think, and it is provided here that the proceeds be deposited at interest somewhere for safe- keeping until the adjustment is reached. I rather think the bill is good. * Senator Curtis. You think the question ought to be settled. Sena- tor, on the appropriation bill, do you? The Chairman. It is a separate bill, Senator. Senator Page. I thought it was on the appropriation bill. Senator. Curtis. I do not think we settle the question. We simply say the lands may be sold and the money kept until the matter is adjusted. Senator Clapp. Senator La Follette wanted it put on the appro- priation bill under the Wisconsin item. Senator Curtis. Did you not, as a member of the committee, in- vestigate that at one time. Senator Page? Senator Page. Yes; Senator Clapp and Mr. Brown, Mr. Small and myself, I think. Am I right about that. Senator Clapp? Senator Clapp. Yes. The Chairman. It is in the amendments asked for by the depart- ment. Is there any objection to the legislation going on the bill? Senator Gronna. I was told the other day there would be a bill in the course of a few days before this committee that would take care of bills that were purely legislation. I have no objection that I know of to this particular provision. It is hardly fair to the rest of us to say that simply because the department wants certain things that legis- lation must go on, and then some Members of Congress want to know whether there has been any estimate for it or not. Now, whether that is a fair way of proceeding, I do not know. Senator Curtis. I think Senator Gronna is right. MISSISSIPPI CI-IO CTA WS — -EN ROLLMEN T . The Chairman. I ask leave to include in the record some corre- spondence regarding the per capita payments, being a letter I wrote 448 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Bixby, of Muslcogee, and his reply, under the head of Choctaw and Chickasaw per capita payments. (The letter and reply referred to is here printed in full, as fol- lows:) July 30, 1915. Hon. Tams Bixby, Muskogee, Olcla. My Dear Sib: The Indian Committee during tlie last session of Congress was subjected to the strenuous contention that the Mississippi Choctaws still residing in Mississippi were entitled to enrollment under the treaty of 1830. Our records show that the Dawes Commission reported in January, 1898, that the Mississippi Choctaws were unable to prove their descent from ances- tors who were supposed to be fourteenth article claimants, and were unable to prove that their ancestors had complied with the requirements of the four- teenth article of the treaty of 18.30, and therefore could not qualify themselves under the law ; that Congress passed an act May 31, 1900, that those " duly iden- tified " might be enrolled for allotment if they should remove to the Choctaw country west, but that the Dawes Commission, upon an inquiry, found that very few, indeed, if any, could show themselves the descendants of fourteenth article claimants, or that their ancestors had complied with the conditions of the fourteenth article, and therefore that the Dawes Commission were unable to find more than a very few who could be " duly identified." It appeSrs, however, that when the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement of 1902 was submitted to Congress, recognizing Mississippi Choctaws who might be " duly Identified " a strenuous contention was made to change the rules of evi- dence so that the full bloods might be recognized as entitled under the four- teenth article, without regard to technical proof that their ancestors had com- plied with the conditions (jf the fourteenth article. I am informed, after the Interior Department, in February, 1901, changed its attitude from a recognition of the schedule of March 10, 1899, and the full- blood rule of evidence as submitted by the Dawes Commission, and stood strictly upon the technical requirements of the law until June, 1902, when a compro- mise Avas effected by which the full-blood rule of evidence was inserted as an amendment on the floor of the House of Representatives, recognizing the full- blood rule of evidence, upon an agreement between the members of the Indian Committee, the attorneys for the Choctaws and Chickasaws, and the representa- tives of the Mississippi Choctaws. I should like a statement from you as to whether or not these representa- tions are strictly true and to have from you a statement of what the facts were, to the best of your understanding, because this matter will again come up in Congress this winter in all human probability, and we should have a plain statement from you with regard to this matter. I understand that the Dawes Commission opposed admission of the Missis- sippi Choctaws except where they made the strictest technical proof until the compromise was entered into fixing the full-blood rule of evidence in the agree- ment of July 1, 1902. I should appreciate your writing me fully and clearly with regard to this matter. Yours, respectfully, (Signed) Henky F. Ashurst. Muskogee, Okla., September 23, 1915. Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, Chairtnan, Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. Dear Sir: In answer to your request, under date of July 30, with regard to the Mississippi Choctaws and their right to have the Choctaw rolls reopened and to be admitted to citizenship, I have the following statement to make relative to the history of this case : Under the act of 1896, authorizing the Dawes Commission to make the rolls of citizens of the Five Civilized Tribes, application was made to the commis- sion in the case of Jack Amos et al., and in which the question was raised as to whether full-blood Mississinni Choctaws residing in Mississippi had the right to be enrolled as Choctaw citizens. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 449 The Dawes Commission denied the Jaclc Amos case December 1, 1896, and it was appealed to Judge W. H. H. Clayton's court and he decided that the Dawes Commission was correct in its decision in denying Jaclc Amos et al. Judge Claxton gave as his reason for sustaining the Dawes Commission that Jacli Amos et al. (Mississippi Choctaws residing in Mississippi) not having removed to the Choctaw country west were not entitled to be enrolled, even if they were full-blood Mississippi Choctaws, and that their claim to the right to be enrolled while resident in Mississippi could not be sustained. This judg- ment against the Mississippi Clioctaws was final under the law which made Judge Clayton's court final arbiter in matters appealed from the Dawes Com- mission. It was recognized that the Jack Amos case was a test case. , In the Indian appropriation bill which passed In March, 1897, an item was inserted directing the Dawes Commission to make a report to Congress on the rights of the Mississippi Choctaws. President Cleveland failed to sign this act of Congress, but it was reenacted the following June (1897) and was signed by the President. Under this direction of Congress the Dawes Commission made its report, which was sent in to Congress in January, 1898, In which the commission held that the Mississippi Choctaws who were the lineal descendants of the fourteenth article claimants under the treaty of 1830 would be entitled to move to the Choctaw Nation and be enrolled for citizenship, provided they were identified by some competent tribunal and should actually remove to the Choctaw country west. In the Curtis Act of June 28, 1898, Congress instructed the Dawes Com- mission to identify the Mississippi Choctaws who should be entitled to remove under this report of the Dawes Commission. Maj. A. S. McKennon went to Mississippi during February, 1899, and iden- tified 1,923 Mississippi Choctaws, but stated in the report that it was made up on the theory that in making the enrollment he thought it only fair to regard full-blood Choctaws as the descendants of fourteenth article claimants. He stated in this report, substantially, that no proper record had ever been made in 1830 of the fourteenth article claimants ; that the Mississippi Choc- taws in 1899 could not prove, first, that their ancestors had complied with the fourteenth article, and, second, could not prove their lineal descent from their ancestors of 1830 as they had no family records. While the Dawes Commission joined in this report made by Hon. A. S. McKennon it was with some misgiving that the commission was not justified in rendering an opinion without competent evidence that would give the Mississippi Choctaws property worth millions of dollars in the Choctaw country west, and upon a more careful examination into the matter the commission concluded that the full-blood rule of evidence, so called, adopted by the report of 1899, was not justified as a matter of law and could not be maintained. On the 31st of May, 1900, Congress passed an act that Mississippi Choctaws " duly identified " by the Dawes Commissicn might remove to the Choctaw country west at any time before the rolls closed. Many applications were made under this act for identification. The Dawes Commission decided that any person to be " duly identified " must prove that his ancestor had complied with the conditions of the fourteenth article of the treaty of 1830, and that he was a lineal descendant of such ancestor. After examining nearly every case which had been enrolled under the schedule of March 10, 1899, the commission decided that only a very few individuals would be entitled to enrollment as "duly identified." Neither the Dawes Commission nor the Interior Department felt that it had a right by loose interpretation to permit the Mississippi Choctaws to absorb millions of dollars of property vested by law in the Choctaw Nation west unless it were done upon the direct and express authority of Congress. It did not seem right that those who had lived in Mississippi for generation after generation, and who had taken no part in developing the Choctaw country west, should have the right to joint ownership of this property unless they could prove themselves entitled by competent evidence, and this they could not do. For that reason the Dawes Commission and the Interior Department were opposed to their enrollment and in the report of the Dawes Commission of May 19, 1902, the reasons of the Dawes Commission were fully set up and were sustained by the Secretary of the Interior in his letter of June 2, 1902. The Choctaws and Chickasaws west naturally felt that they were not called upon to divide this estate with persons who had not lived with them for over 70 years and they were opposed to admitting Mississippi Choctaws who could 31362—16 ^29 450 IJSrDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. not support their claim by adequate and competent evidence, and, for this reason, the agreement was presented to Congress February 23, 1901, and also March 24, 1902, providing that only Mississippi Choctaws " duly identified " should be admitted. Those representing Mississippi Choctaws strenuously contended that the full- blood rule of evidence should be adopted and that the schedule of March 10, 1S99, should be recognized as binding. This schedule was- erroneous in many particulars as the Dawes Commission discovered upon a critical examination of it, but finally, in order to adjust this controversy, a compromise was reached when the Choctaw-Chickasaw agreement of 1902 was passed on in Congress so that an amendment providing for the full-blood rule of evidence was adopted, so drawn, however, as to recognize only those who were living full bloods and not recognizing their half-breed children. It was thought better by the Gov- ernment authorities to yield this point as a settlement of the controversy as the friends of the Mississippi Choctaws were demanding very much larger concessions. I do not think that the rolls should be opened or that those not already on the rolls as Mississippi Choctaws should be given any further consideration for the simple reason that this contest was pending from 1896 to March 4, 1907, when the rolls were closed by act of Congress, and it is of great importance to the peace of the Choctaws and Chickasaws and of the State of Oklahoma that these rolls, which were finally closed by act of Congress eight years ago, should not be disturbed on any account whatever. Yours, very respectfully, Tams Bixby. CHIPPEWA INDIANS FOND DU LAC BAND. Senator Clapp. I ask leave to report that bill, S. 4683, giving juris- diction to the Court of Claims to the Chippewa Indians of the Fond du Lac Band, calendar No. 117. While the Indian Office does not think these people have very much of a claim, they are rather in- clined to think thej^ might go to the court to settle the question. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the Senator reporting that bill favorably? Senator Page. I should like to know more about it, because I do not know anything about it. Senator Clapp. It relates to the pine that was taken off of the Fond du Lac Reservation, a small reservation near the head of Lake Superior, right out from Duluth, and it is claimed this pine was sold by the Government, and consequently the Indians should be reimbursed. While the suit is brought by the Fond du Lacs under the bill, because it relates to their reservation, the money, of course, will go into the general fund of the Chippewas in Minne- sota. The Indian Office is not very much impressed with the idea that the Indians have a claim here, but they do feel there is enough of it anyway to warrant them letting them go to the court and find out about it. Senator Gronna. Is that all of this bill? Senator Page. I should like to hear from the department, if there is no objection. The Chairman. Have you any objection, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. We have no objection to the Indians going to the Court o'f Claims on this matter. I have not gone over the wording of the bill carefully. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the motion? If not, the Senator will report it. INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 451 (The bill referred to is here printed in full, as follows :) Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims to hear, determine, and render judgment upon the claims of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota for timber heretofore standing upon lands in the Fond du Lac Indian Reservation in said State of Minnesota which may have been classified by the Department of the Interior as agricultural lands under the Act of Congress entitled "An Act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," approved January fourteenth, eighteen hundred and ninety-nine, and disposed of as agri- cultural lands, and the recovery on the part of said Chippewa Indians In the State of Minnesota, if any, shall be based upon the value of said timber stand- ing thereon at the time of said classification. Sec. 2. That in said proceeding the said Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota may appear under the name of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota and may appear by some person designated by a majority of the Fond du Lac Band of Indians ; and from any recovery that is had from the proceedings thereof there shall first be paid to the Fond du Lac Band of Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota the carrying expenses incurred in procuring the evidence and presenting the same to the court, the balance of said recovery. If any, to be placed to the credit of all the Chippewa Indians in the State of 'Minnesota. Senator Owen. There was a bill introduced in the House relative to the occupants of the Tuttle town site. It is a very short bill, and a short statement, and I should like to call the attention of the com- mittee to it. It is as follows : That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to effectuate a compromise settlement of the suit of the United States against E. Dowden and others decided adversely to the Government on January fourth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, by the United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit and now pending on appeal in the Supreme Court of the United States, and for said purpose to purchase whatever right, title, and interest that said E. Dowden may have in or to the land involved in said suit, said land being situated within the area segregated for town-site purposes at Tuttle, Oklahoma, and to take such other action as may be necessary to quiet the title in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations to said land and in the pur- chasers from said nations at the Government sale of the town lots, and for the above purpose the sum of $57,500, together with interest thereon at the rate of six per centum per annum from February twenty-fourth, nineteen hundred and sixteen, to date of settlement, is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury of the United States not otherwise appropriated : Provided, That the United States is to be reimbursed to the extent of the proceeds heretofore derived, or which may hereafter be derived, from the sale of the town lots within the area affected by such compromise settlement. Senator Page. That is a House bill, you say? Senator Owen. Yes. Senator Page. There is Senate bill before us, is there? Senator Owen. No; I was simply calling attention because the Government officers believe that they will certainly lose the case in the Supreme Court. . Senator Page. You think it ought to go m the appropriation bill, do you? ., , , . , • ,• 1 -11 T Senator Owen. It would be available in the appropriation biii, i think because it relates to the town site of Tuttle, which belongs to the Choctaws and Chickasaws, at least it is believed to belong to them, and the Government put a town site on it and turned out the title in this other man, and he had to quiet the title to it. 452 INDIAN APPHOPEIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. How did he acquire the title? Is he a member of the tribe? Senator O^ven. I do not understand exactly. I have the entire record here giving the whole statement. Mr. Meritt knows about it. I see his initials on this report. Senator Geonna. If this legislation should go on, it would only protect the Indians, is that the idea? Senator Owen. Yes, and protect the Government also because the Government would probably have to pay $300,000 instead of $50,000 for which they can compromise now. The Chairman. Has it passed the House, Senator Owen ? Senator Owen. I do not Imow. Mr. Meritt. The department has submitted a favorable report on the. House bill, and the House committee has reported favorably on this legislation. Senator Owen. I think I might report a separate bill, with the con- sent of the committee, and let the matter come up in that way. Would that be all right, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. The Senator from Oklahoma will make a separate report on the bill. Senator Curtis. Why not let him introduce a bill and put it on that bill? Senator Owen. I would ask permission to report on a bill identical with this one, and which I will introduce, and I will then put this record with the department's report. Senator Page. That was my query, what we had before us to act upon. Should the bill be introduced and then come to us for con- sideration ? Senator Owen. It was only on account of the urgency of this mat- ter that I brought it up in this way. The Chairman. You will introduce the bill and report it. Senator Gronna. I understand the Senator will introduce a bill similar to the one of the House and will be authorized to report it on account of its being an urgent matter. The Chairman. Yes, sir. The next item is Minnesota, page 20. Senator Clapp. No; page 21. * The Chairman. Agreed to on line 20, $61,775 : MINNESOTA PIPESTONE SCHOOt. Sec. 9. For support and education of two hundred and twenty-five Indian pupils nt tlie Indian school, Pipestone, Minnesota, including pay of superintend- ent, $39,175 ; for general repairs and improvements, and for remodeling build- ing for dormitory purposes, $7,000; for mechanical and general utility shop building, $10,000 ; for septic tank, $5,500 ; in all, $61,675. The Chairbian. The House provisions are increased. No; the estimates are increased by $10,000. Senator Page. I do not object to it. The Chairman. If there is no objection it is agreed to. The next item is line 23, page 21 : For support of a school or schools for the Chippewas of the Mississippi In Minnesota (article three, treaty of March nineteenth, eighteen hundred and sixty-seven), $4,000. It is agreed to. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 453 The next item is line 1, page 21. Is there any obiection? If not, it IS agreed to. The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to withdraw from the ireasury ot the Umted States, at his discretion, the sum of $185,000, or so much mereot as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the t^nippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, arising under section seven of the act of January fourteenth, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, entitled "An act tor the relief and civilization of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minne- sota, and to use the same for the purpose of promoting civilization and self- support among the said Indians in manner and for purposes provided for in said act. Senator Page. If this has been agreed to, all right. The Chairman. You understand, I want to be courteous. Senator Page. Here is $185,000. It is possibly all right, but I should like to have about five seconds devoted to it. The Chairman. I do not mean to be discourteous. Senator Page. What do you say about it, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. This item is in accordance with the estimate of the department. We asked for $185,000 for agency and school expenses. We have several agencies in the Chippewa country, and the Indians have about $6,000,000 in the Treasury, and we should like to have withdrawn from their funds $185,000 for the purpose of administer- ing the affairs of the Chippewa Indians. Senator Page. What part of this will go for school purposes ? Mr. Meritt. Part will go for school purposes and part for agency purposes. I have not the exact figures here. Senator Page. Senator Clapp, is this a matter you thoroughly understand ? Senator Clapp. Certainly. Mr. Meritt. This has been carried in the appropriation bill year after year. Senator Page. Then it is all right. The Chairman. It is agreed to. Senator Clapp. Following the appropriation at the top of page 21 the Indians have asked for certain limitations upon the use of tlie funds to which the department has acceded — Proridcfl, That not to exceed $60,000 of said amount, and the one-fourth in- terest on the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota now to their credit in the Treasury to be used for the maintenance of free schools, shall be used for the compensation of employees in the Indian service in Minnesota ex- cept for irregular labor, and that the said Chippewas shall receive the preference in filling permanent positions in the service of the .Chippewas of Minnesota where the compensation is paid from their tribal funds. Last year that amount equaled $64,000, but the department has dis- charged a number of employees and is satisfied that it can easily do the work with the limitation of $60,000. Senator Page. There is not a joker, is there, where you say so much as interest? How much does that add to the appropriation? Senator Clapp. Senator Page, the appropriations to the Chippewas of Minnesota consist, first, automatically under the treaty of the in- terest of 5 per cent amounting to $20,000, one-half shall be paid to the Indians, one-fourth be paid to others than these per capita dis- tributions, and one-fourth for schools. Now, this limitation of $60,- 000 — and in addition to that we authorize the taking from their fund of $185,000 of the principal fund. Then the Indians feel that 454 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. they would like a limitation on the use of that which is very proper, T think, owing to the progress they have made and to which the de- partment interposes no objection. Senator Page. Is it really a limitation or an extension ? Senator Clapp. It is a limitation that out of $185,000 and out of the item of interest which does not appear in the appropriation bill, because that is made automatically under the terms of the treaty, out of those two amounts, not more than $60,000 shall be used for employees. Last year the office used about $64,000, but this year they have discharged some of the employees and feel now that they can accommodate the necessities very easily to $60,000. Senator Page. And what other sum beside $60,000 do you place the limitation now ? Senator Clapp. Then I go on further : Provided further, That not less than $]0,000 of said amount of $185,000 may be used to furnish employment to the said Chlppewas In building roads and making other Improvements upon the Ohlppewa reservations In Minnesota for the benefit of the said Chlppewas, and $10,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to establish an electric light plant at the White Earth Agency, the boarding school there, and the village of White Earth, Minn., said plant, or its proportionate share of expenses to be maintained by the residents of White Earth village under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by the Sec- retary of the Interior. This is what I wanted to explain to you, because it is the only thing that requires an explanation. Senator Page. Is that solely an Indian village at White Earth ? Senator Clapp. It is a white village. Senator Page. Why should their money be taken for plant ? Senator Clapp. I am going to tell you in a moment. Now, we have there the agency and the boarding school, and it was thought that one small plant would just as well satisfy the wants of all and that we could utilize it in connection with the village by authorizing the Secretary to make the rules and regulations for the proportionate share of the expenses of the village, otherwise the vil- lage would have to put in a separate plant, and we would maintain a separate plant, when, on the other hand, one plant will answer all the purposes, and the Secretary of the Interior to distribute the basis of expenses between the two. It strikes me it is a very wise and prudential measure. Senator Geonna. It is in the interest of economy ? Senator Clapp. Certainly. Senator Page. Is it going to be an expensive plant to keep up? What is the power? Have you any water power there to generate the electricity? Senator Clapp. No ; it has to be steam power. Senator Page. It has to be coal ? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Page. Do you think you need the electric lights there at tiie school? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. Is there any further discussion ? Mr. Meritt. Just one word on that item. We should like to have changed the word " shall " to " may." Senator Clapp. That is right. INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. 455 The Chairman. That correction will be made and the item agreed to. Mr. Meeitt. Understand, we should like to have the item without the limitation, but if Senator Clapp and the Indians desire it, we will not oppose it. Senator Clapp. If this limitation is going to embarrass you, they do not ask for it, and I certainly would not champion it. Mr. Meritt. I do not feel that it will cause any serious embar- rassment. Senator Clapp. They feel that they would like a voice in these things, as it is their money we appropriate, and I think we should accord them the voice, if it does not embarrass the administration. Mr. Meritt. There will be no embarrassment, Mr. Chairman. Senator Cl.-vpp. On the same page and after this item Senator Lane. The next is agreed to in advance, I suppose, Mr. Chairman ? The Chairman. You have some more amendments. Senator? Senator Clapp. Some years ago we passed the act knoAvn as the Morris Act for the sale and disposition of the timber on the Minne- sota reservations and the reservation of what was known as the forest reserve, and the Indians feel that they would like a limitation in the use of that money, and they submit the following : CHECK SCALERS. The superintendent of logging upon tlie Chippewa reservations in Minnesota is hereby authorized to expend not to exceed $25,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary from the amount derived from the sale of the pine timber of the Chippewas of Minnesota in the payment of scalers, check scalers as provided by the act of .January 14, 1889 (25 Stat., 642) and such clerks as he may employ. Any act not in conformity with this provision is hereby repealed. A detailed statement of all the expenses hereinafter incurred and paid from the tribal funds of the Chippewas of Minnesota shall be reported to Congress annually. INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT NO. 1. Senator Clapp. On the same page a bill was introduced as follows : Be it enacterl by the Senate find House of Representatives of the United States of Amrrira in Congress assembled. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to convey by patent in fee simple to Independent School District Number One, of Mahnomen County, Minnesota, for the purpose of a demonstration farm in connection with the agricultural department of the public schools of said place, that certain tract of land which had been set apart for the now abandoned Mahnomen Indian day school, said tract being de- scribed as follows, to wit : West half of the southwest quarter of section eleven, township one hundred and forty-four north, range forty-two west of the fifth principal meridian, in Minnesota : Provided, That the purchase price of the property conveyed, which shall be not less than its appraised value, shall be divided equally among those members of the Pembina band of Indians living on the date of passage of this act who were born prior to .luly twenty-one, nineteen hundred, but were not included on the allotment schedule approved on that date ; appraisement of the property and payment of the proceeds to the said Indians to be under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe: Provided further, That this shall not be construed to affect any rights involved in pending litigation. This was introduced as an amendment to authorize the going to school in that district at Menominee and at White Earth, a piece of land amounting to 80 acres, and at the suggestion of the department that was amended to provide that instead of giving it to the district it should be sold and the proceeds divided among certain members of the Mahnomen Band of Indians living at the date of this act. 456 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. There is, I think, pending a claim for an allotment of that land, and I have inserted at the end of this provision, Mr. Meritt, the following : Provided further, This shall not be construed to affect any rights Involved in pending litigation. So that it could not be claimed that we were interfering with that litigation. If the courts should sustain the pending allotment, of course they ought to have the property. That amendment goes on page 21. Senator Pittman. How would that affect the title to the property, Senator Clapp? Senator Clapp. This would prove a nullity automatically in case the courts sustain the pending suit for allotment. Senator Pittman. Then if this sale took place Senator Clapp. The department, of course, would not sell until that suit was disposed of. Senator Pittman. Then of course the department would use that precaution, otherwise some one would be purchasing a piece of land without title and there would be confusion. Does that say the de- partment shall sell it? Senator Clapp. That the department may sell it. Senator Page. This is all legislation, so if upon thinking the mat- ter over Senator Clapp. This is only a little of it. This authorization of the sale might possibly be construed as legislation, the balance is all carrying out the provisions of the treaties. The Chairman. The item, line 12, page 21, is agreed to. That was carried last year : CHIPPEWAS OF MINNESOTA, WHITE EARTH BAND. The Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to advance to the execu- tive committee of the White Earth Band of Chippewa Indians in Minnesota the sum of $1,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be expended in the annual celebration of said band to be held June fourteenth, nineteen hun- dred and sixteen, out of the funds belonging to said band. Senator Clapp. Now turn to page 23, which was carried last year. That is for distribution of one- fourth per capita share, as the matter stands now. You might read that, Mr. Chairman. That is your function, not mine. The Chairman. Line 1, page 23 : That the Secretary of the Interior, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, is hereby authorized to advance to any individual Chippewa Indian in the State of Minnesota entitled to participate in the permanent fund of the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota one-fourth of the amount which would now be coming to said Indian under a pro rata distribution of said permanent fund : Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior, under such rules and regu- lations as he may prescribe, may use for or advance to any Chippewa Indian in the State of Minnesota entitled to share in said fund who is Incompetent, blind, crippled, decrepit, or helpless from old age, disease, or accident, one- fourth of the amount which would now be coming to said Indian under a pro rata distribution of said permanent fund: Provided further. That any money received hereunder by any member of said tribe or used for his or her benefit shall be deducted from the share of said member in the permanent fund of the said Chippewa Indians in Minnesota to which he or she would be entitled : Provided further, That the funds hereunder be paid to Indians shall not be subject to any lien or claim of attorneys or other third parties. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 457 Senator Page. You provide, first, that one-fourth shall be dis- triDuted to all Indians, and then you provide that one-fourth may go to the Indians that are incompetent, blind, etc. That is really a quahhcation of the first part of the act, is it not, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Under this language in the bill we can hold the money that should go to the incompetent Indians and deposit it in the local banks and use it for their benefit. Senator Page. This gives you the right to pay it and then direct how they shall use it ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Pittman. That is qualified by the words "under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe,'^ I suppose? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. Is there any further discussion. If not, it is agreed to. Senator Clapp. The first paragraph of page 24 is an authorization to survey the lands of the Indians there in Minnesota looking to the ascertainment of minerals, and then the reservation of the mineral rights. That is going to be a terrific proposition, to survey those lands, and last year we put a provision in which I will read to the committee and which was agreed to. Senator Pittman. Was that land ceded by the act of Congress to the State of Minnesota ? Senator Clapp. No; not the bulk of this. White Earth was ceded and is different from most reservations in that respect, but the bulk of the reservations in Minnesota to-day are original reservations that have been diminished from time to time by treaty. Senator Pittman. I see in here it says : MINERAL LANDS. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to cause an examination to be made by experts of the Geological Survey of the ceded lands, for which the United S'tates has not conveyed title, in the State of Minnesota embraced within the provisions of an act entitled "An act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," approved January fourteenth, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine (Twenty-fifth Statues at Large, page six hudred and forty-two), and If there be found any lands bearing valuable deposits of iron oi-e or other valuable minerals, the said Secretary is hereby authorized to reserve, for the use and benefit of the Chippewa Indians In Minnesota, the minerals and the mineral rights pertaining to any of the such lands; and the said Secretary is hereby authorized to withdraw from the Treasury $10,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the Chip- pewa Indians in Minnesota in order to make the geological examination herein provided for. Senator Clapp. They were ceded by the Indians subsequently. Senator Pittman. In that cession by the Indians, was there any reservation of minerals? Senator Clapp. No. Senator Pittman. Have we any right at the present time to reserve that? Senator Clapp. Unquestionably ; they are now in the Government, where the title has not passed from the Government. Senator Pittman. Was there not a contract between the Indians and the State of Minnesota — a treaty in regard to this cession ? Senator Clapp. Yes. 458 INDIAN APPKOPKIATiON BILL. Senator Pittman. Did not the Indians contract to cede the land ? Senator Clapp. Certainly. Senator Pittman. Would not the land embrace minerals? Senator Clapp. Possibly; but the Government, until the title of the land passed to an individual under the Homestead Act, it con- templates what is not required for alotments shall go to the home- steaders, but they have now discovered minerals, and they reach up pretty well into these reservations. Instead of letting the title of that get away into the hands of individuals, it was thought we had better, while the legal control remained, to declare that the Govern- ment is simply the trustee for those lands — that is the legal status. Senator Pittman. But there has been a contract entered into with the State, as I understand it. Senator Clapp. No; not with the State. Senator Lane. No; with the Indians. Senator Clapp. No; not with the State — to the United States. Senator Lane. They are trustees? Mr. Meeitt. The Indians own this land, until finally disposed of by the Federal Government, to the homesteaders. Senator Pittman. J do not understand the wording, " Has not conveyed title " — Oh, in the State of Minnesota ? Senator Clapp. Yes; the equitable title — the interest is still with the Indians, except where they have been homesteaded. The legal title is in the United States simply for the purpose of conveying and accounting to the Indian for whatever these lands will bring — timber or mineral or anything else. Now, in view of the discovery of minerals in that section, it seems the Indians brought this matter up, and I might say here that they have counsel who look up a good many of these things, and it occurred to them, and I think it was a very wise suggestion, to make this reservation. Senator Geonna. Is it the idea to give the Indians the benefit of the minerals? Senator Clapp. Yes; certainly. Senator Page. Why not in line 12 say " authorize and direct " ? Senator Clapp. Senator, I am criticizing the whole amendment. This amendment provides for a survey. Now, in Minnesota, with reference to the State lands, instead of surveying the land to find out what has got mineral under it, we simply passed a blanket laAV that any land hereafter conveyed by the State, the minerals were reserved to the State. They may be discovered to-day, they may be discovered twenty years from now. It would be an immense task, and attended with a great deal of uncertainty in the end, to undertake to survey these lands geologically to find the minerals, so we just want a blanket provision that as to any lands where the title has not passed to an individual heretofore, the title to the mineral under the land shall remain in the Indian. Senator Page; That is all right, but why do you not say so ? Senator Clapp. That is what I am saying. Senator Page. No Senator Clapp. Wait, Senator, please. I have all ready stated once that I want to offer a substitute for that ; I am opposed to what is in the bill here : Hereafter on ceded lands in the State of Minnesota embraced within the pro- visions of the law entitled "An Act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewa INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. 459 llt^^^}^^-^^l ^^^^^ °* Minnesota," approved January fourteenth, eighteen hun- area ana eighty-nme, the minerals in and mineral rights pertaining to any of the i^^' l^^ cession of which was provided for in said Act and which the United btates has not conveyed title, shall be and remain in and are reserved for the use and benefit of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota. That is the provision we had last year, I think. Senator Gronna. Whether you had it or not I am in favor of it. ■nT^T^T *° ^° ™" ^* protects the rights of the Indian every time. Mr. Meeitt. That language is the exact language we use in our esti- mates this year. Senator Clapp. I know you do but the House referred it. Senator Johnson. Does that affect the individual allottee? Senator Clapp. No, there the title has passed out of the Govern- ment and out of the Indian tribe both. Senator Page. You move to amend this by substituting ? Senator Clapp. Yes. Mr. Mebitt. We should be glad to see the item substituted. Senator Lane. Those lands would then be sold and homesteaders would be allowed to take possession of them. Senator Clapp. After the allotments are completed then the balance outside of the forest reserve. Senator Lane. As soon as the Government has lost title to the homesteader it has also given up title to the mineral underneath ? Senator Clapp. Under existing law. Senator Lane. Under your amendment ? Senator Clapp. No, under this amendment they will reserve it. Senator Pittman. What was the consideration paid the Indians for this cession ? Senator Clapp. The principle consideration was the advance of in- terest for a term of years. The lands were owned by the Indians, and the treaty was made by which they opened all these lands to settle- ment, reserving a forest reserve at Leech Lake, providing the timber should be sold on the lands outside of the forest reserve and the money paid to the Indians at the end of 50 years, and providing that the agricultural lands should be homesteaded. There was no considera- tion necessary, because it was the first time, I think, in the history of this country that a treaty was made for the opening up of lands where the Government acted simply as trustee, 'accounting to the Indian for all the proceeds of the land. Heretofore we have had the Indian tribes cede their lands to the Government for a certain fixed price, and then the Government could go on and do what it pleased with it. Here the Government assumed this trust to account to the Indian for all the Government gets out of the land over and above the ex- penses of discharging the trust. You could not say there was any particular consideration; nothing passed to the Government except the legal title to execute the trust or Senator Pittman. The Government was to turn over to the Indians all profits received out of this land? Senator Clapp. Yes, they were to turn over everything, less the cost of administering it. It is what I call profits. Then in regard to the forest reserve, they set apart a certain amount of land upon which all the timber was reserved — that has got to be estimated — in fact the authority already exists, and credit the Indians with that. Then where it was all cut but 10 per cent, the 10 per cent has got to 460 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. be estimated and credited to the Indians, and the value of the acreage that is thus destroyed for homestead purposes goes to the Indian. _ The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? If not it is agreed to. The next is line 20, page 24 That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he Is hereby, authorized to with- draw from the Treasury of the United States $500, or so much thereof as may be necessary, of the principal sum on deposit to the credit of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota, arising under section seven of the Act of January fourteenth, eighteen hundred and eighty-nine, entitled "An Act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewa Indians in the State of Minnesota," and to use said withdrawn sum in the purchase and fencing of burial grounds for the Fond du Lac Band of Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. Senator Page. Do you want to amend that $500 item ? Senator Clapp. No, but between those two I want to insert the following : That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to issue to the Northern Minnesota Conference of the Methodist Episcopal Church a patent in fee for forty acres of land on the Nett Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota, described as follows: Southeast quarter of lot one; southwest quarter of northeast quarter of lot one; southeast quarter of northwest quarter of lot one; south half of northeast quarter of northwest quarter, and south half of south half of north half of northeast quarter of northwest quarter, all in section nineteen, township sixty-five north, range twenty-one west of the fourth principal medidian ; such patent to be in lieu of that authorized and directed in the Act of August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen (Thirty-eighth Statutes at Large, page five hundred and ninety-one). Senator Page. I move we adopt the $500 item. The Chairman. The motioA is agreed to. Senator Clapp. Over at Nett Lake it is desired to convey to the Methodist Episcopal Church 40 acres of land. The provisions have been approved by the office, I believe? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Clapp. And I want to insert that after the words " pro- vided for," in line 19. The Chairman. Is there any objection or discussion? It is agreed to. Senator Page. I do not know anything about it, but I suppose it is all right in view of Senator Clapp's statement. The Chaie:\[an. I do not mean to be discourteous. Is it agreed to ? Senator Lane. It is up to the Chairman to ask if it is agreed to. That sounds better. The Chairman. I will. Senator Lane. Senator Clapp. Authorization to convey 40 acres. Wherever we close up these reservations, where they disappear and the land is allotted we invariably make provision for ground enough to main- tain schools, churches, and such things. This is simply in accordance with the custom, is it not ? Senator Page. Do we sell that land to the church ? Senator Clapp. This is given to them. Mr. Meeitt. The information regarding this item may be found on page 234 of the House hearings. Senator Page. Is it a proper thing to convey land of that kind to a church without consideration? INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 461 Mr. Mekitt. We have been doing that on all Indian reservations where churches and missions have been working among the Indians ; we convey to them certain tracts of land for mission purposes. The Chairman. If it is no longer used for such purposes it re- verts to the Indians. Senator Page. Are there not two or three churches there that should receive it ? Senator Clapp. I do not think there is any other church. If there is and it is called to our attention we will promptly authorize the allotment of a piece of land to them. Mr. Mekitt. No, sir; there is no other church doing missionary work among the Eed Lake Indians. Senator Page. This church is doing missionary work there alone ? Mr. Mehitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. I agree to it. The Chairman. It is agreed to. Senator Lane. That is coming better. Senator Clapp. Last year we had provision for the council meet- ing, and the council was held, but the law failed, as everybody knows, the bill failed, and I have redrawn that and also to cover a council meeting this year, which has been submitted to the Indian Office, and I think they have no objection to that. It is as follows: That tlie sum of $6,000, or so mucli thereof as may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, is hereby appropriated to pay the expenses of the general council of said tribe to be held at Blmidji, Minnesota, beginning on the second Tuesday of July, nine- teen hundred and sixteeen, pursuant to the constitution of the general council of said Chippewa Indians of Minnesota, organized in May, ninteen hundred and thirteen, and to pay the actual and necessary expenses of the delegates who attended the meeting of said general council commencing June twelfth and ending June fourteenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, at White Earth, Minnesota, and at Detroit, Minnesota, October fourth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, and also the necessary expenses of the members of the executive com- mittee of said council when attending to the business of the tribe, and to pay the expenses to Washington, in January and February, nineteen hundred and fifteen, and in January, February, and March, nineteen hundred and sixteen,, of the delegations of Chippewa Indians of the State of Minnesota, appointed by the president of said general council pursuant to the resolutions of said general councils of August fourteenth, nineteen hundred and fourteen, and June fourteenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, to present the affairs of said Indians of the State of Minnesota to the officials of the United States, said |6,000 to be immediately available, and the expenses of said delegation to be paid by the Secretary of the Interior upon itemized accounts approved by the president of the executive committee of said council and certified to by the secretary of the council. The Secretary of the Interior may authorize an inspector or special agent or Indian superintendent to attend future sessions of said general council and conventions to which delegates therefor are elected. The word expense to include all items of postage and stationery paid out by the Secretary. Mr. Meritt. This item is not included in our estimates. If Sena- tor Clapp wishes it we will not make any objection. The Chairman. Does it carry any appropriation? Senator Clapp. Not from the Federal Government. It is last year's item repeated, with the addition. Senator Page. That is not quite reason enough. I should like to know the proposal in it so that I may consider it a little more fully. Senator Clapp. It has been my theory for a longe time to partially 462 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. enlarge the rights of the Indians, and also partially enlarge their perception of their affairs where it may not be best to entirely turn over their rights to them. Out of that custom, originating with the Indians for years, they have had their tribal council. They meet and discuss their tribal matters and they come down here, and the mem- bers of the executive committee of the council are here now. Senator Page. This is really an appropriation for $6,000. We take $6,000 out of their funds. Senator Lane. To pay for their expenses going to councils and other things? Senator Clapp. For councils and coming down here. Senator Lane. That is all right. That is a good idea. Senator Page. Is this something that is more essential to this particular tribe than to any other tribe? Senator Clapp. I do not think it is, Senator Page, except that this tribe has taken the initiative among themselves, and I want to say it has appealed to me from the very outset. It familiarizes them with their own affairs; it familiarizes them with doing business; it leads to disputes and debates, and is a developing factor and process among them. I think because of that alone the money is well in- Tested. They have men there, some are people who have graduated from our universities, who take a keen interest in these things. They often get into controversies between different parties in the tribe, just as we do among our people. Senator Page. The question I asked was, if it is essential for this tribe why not for every tribe? Senator Clapp. I am not going to express an opinion on that, as that is a matter within the purview of the Indian Office, and I think the Indian Office is more and more inclined all the time to confer with the Indians and let them be heard on their matters. When I first came to the Senate they were hardly ever »heard on anything. We went along here with their affairs, and I am asking this because they took it up some years ago. In their council they consider a great many questions. It familiarizes them with the functions per- taining to assemblages, debates, and discussions. Senator Page. Probably I did not make myself understood. I wish you would tell me why, if this is essential for that tribe, it would not be best for every tribe and all tribes. Senator Clapp. Probably so in a great many tribes where they are advanced as these people are it might be a good thing for them, if I may be permitted to make the suggestion, but that, I think, is for the Indian Office to determine rather than for me to express an opinion on. Senator Page. Mr. Meritt, is there anything about this particular feature of the bill that can not be provided for in other appro- priations, if you have general appropriations ? Mr. Meritt. The other appropriations would not be available for this purpose. Senator Page. I notice the words " expenses to include all items of postage and stationery paid out by the Secretary." Senator Clapp. That arose because after they had been running this matter awhile there was a question raised as to whether the word " expenses " would cover the stationery and postage which the Secre- INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 463 no-f^f^*""" ?f«^-. Would the expenses of the inspector of special agent, provided m this last section of the act, be paid out of the Indians' funds under this? Senator Clapp. No; that is a matter for the Federal Government to pay. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir; the expenses of special agents are paid out of gratuity appropriations found in the first part of the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Page. Do you approve this, Mr Meritt? Mr. Meeitt. We oflFer no objections to it, Senator. Senator Page. If Senator Curtis carries out his plan the greater part of this will go out, will it not ? Senator Clapp. No; only two items may possibly go out. Every other item except two are amendments to carry out the provisions of existing treaties and laws. I am now coming to what is known as the Red Lake Forest Re- serve, which might go on page 25 after line 7. Senator Gronna. I want to say in connection with that, Senator Clapp, that I received a communication from some Indians who were living up in that country protesting against this legislation. Senator Clapp. There is no question about that. Senator Lane. Why? Senator Clapp. I will tell you, briefly, about that situation. I think both factions are here. Mr. Meeitt. May I make a statement here ? It may save some time to the committee. Senator Clapp. Yes. Mr. Meeitt. The department has now under consideration the Nelson bill, to establish a forest reserve on the Red Lake Reservation. The department has prepared a report on that bill suggesting certain modifications. A report has not yet been submitted to the com- mittee through the regular channels, and I should like, if it is ac- ceptable to Senator Clapp, that this matter be deferred until the offi- cial report is received and the bill as recommended by the depart- ment be substituted for the bill by Senator Nelson. We give reasons for the changes suggested in the bill. I might further say there are two delegations of Indians from the Red Lake Reservation, and our office has been in consultation with those Indians and we have modi- fied this legislation so as to meet as nearly as possible the varying views of the Indians of that reservation. Senator Page. Do you think the bill you will introduce will so far meet the views of Indians from Red Lake Reservation that they will assent to this legislation ? Mr. Meeitt. In my judgment there will be no serious objection to the bill as prepared by the department. Of course there will be some objection by some individual Indians, but the bill as prepared meets as nearly as possible the varying views of the Indians. Senator Page. It ha;d better go over, had it not, Senator Clapp ? Senator Clapp. Certainly, if the committee is willing. 464 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. SAGINAW, SWAN CKEEK, AND BLACK EIVEK CHIPPAWA INDIANS OF MICHI- GAN. Senator Lane. This was sent in by Senator Townsend on a Michi- gan item. We can take it up hiter. He proposed an amendment giving them the right to go to the Court of Claims — the Indians in Michigan. Senator Clapp. From what I know of the matter I think he ought to have it. Senator Lane. I knew nothing about it until Senator Owen handed it to me before he left a moment ago. Washington, D. C, February 11, 1916. Hon. Chaeles E. Townsend, United States Senate, Washinpton, D. C. Deae Senator: You have been kind enough to help me In my efforts to get necessary legislation for taking proper steps to make settlement with the Government of my band's claims. As you are perhaps aware, the former relations of the Chippewa Indians to the Government Involved claims In which not only my band, but other bands of Chippewas In the State of Michigan were interested. Therefore It becomes necessary to extend the scope of the authority given to the court under any jurisdictional act that would be broad enough to cover all our claims. I find that the department has in some Instances combined the funds of as many as three Chippewa bands and then disposed of the fund or parts of It in whole or in part without reference ot the separate rights of the respec- tive bands. In order to cover this situation, I have had a bill prepared with a view to getting it to introduced as an amendment to the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Robert L. Owen, a member of the Indian Committee of the Senate, was very kind in assisting me to secure legislation some years ago, and I believe that upon request from you he will be glad to introduce the amend- ment item which I submit herewith to you. Very respectfully, yours, Joseph Beadley. proposed amendment for the indian appropriation bill. That the act of .lune twenty-fifth, nineteen hundred and ten, entitled "An act for the relief of the Saginaw, Swan Creek, and Black River Band of Chippewa Indians in the State of Michigan, and for other purposes," be, and hereby is, amended so as to read as follows : " That .iurisdlction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims, with the right of appeal to the Supreme Court of the tJnited States, to consider and adjudicate any claim, arising under treaty stipulation or otherwise, which the Saginaw, Swan Creek, and Black River Band or other band of Chippewa Indians residing in the State of Michigan have against the TJnited States ; and such suit or suits as may be instituted hereunder shall, if the convenience of the court admit, be advanced upon the docket of either of said courts for trial and be determined at the earliest practicable time. " Sec. 2. That upon the final determination of such suit or suits the Court of Claims shall decree such fees as the court shall find to be reasonable, to be paid to the attorney or attorneys employed by the said band of Indians, and the same shall be paid out of the sum found to be due said band of Indians when an appropriation therefor shall have been made by Congress: Provided, That in no case shall the fees decreed by the court exceed in amount such sum or sums as may have been fixed therefor under the terms of 9.ny contract entered into between the Indians and their attorney in conformity with section twenty-one hundred and three and the following of the Revised Statutes of the United States for the prosecution of their claims." Senator Page. Is this band in Michigan some who have strayed away from the Bad River Band in Wisconsin? Mr. Mbeitt. They are related. INDIAN APPROPRIAXIOX BU.I.. 465 Senator Page. Is there sKiy matter between those two iiarts of the tribe that Is sought to be settled by this legislation? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; we have no objection to the legislation. Senator Page. What is the claim? Mr. Mekitt. They claim there are certain funds due them arising from past legislation and treaties. Senator PrrrstAN (presiding). \\'hat is the pleasure of the committee on this amendment? Senator Gkonna. Senator Lane propose.s to have it go on as an amendment to the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Page. He asked that it go on as a personal favor to Senator Town- send. Personally I have no objection. Senator Clapp. I would yield more to a Senator who is not a member of the committee, and I believe we should, than to members of the committee in a matter of that kind. Senator Page. If we approve it I do not care to have the letter read. Senator Pittman. Is it agreed to? Senator Gkonna. I have no objection to letting it go on the appropriation bill. Senator Pittman. It is agreed to. PBOPOSED PBOVISIONS TO BE INSERTED IN THE INDr4N Al'PEOPRIATION BILL, RELATIVE TO THE WHITE EARTH INDIAN RESERVATION. First amendment,: That the sixth paragraph of section 9 of the act approved June 30, 1913 (38 Stats. L., p. 89) , be, and the same hereby is, amended by striking out the words " one of whom shall be selected by the Department of Justice " in the third line thereof, and substituting therefor the words " one of whom shall be an assistant to the Attorney General, and who shall continue as such commissioner during the pleasure and under the direction of tlie Attorney General." Second amendment : That the seventh paragraph of section 9 of the act approved June 30, 1913 (38 Stats. L., p. 89), be, and the same is hereby, amended to read as follows: " That the roll herein provided for shall be made in triplicate and shall show the allotment number or numbers, together with the description of the property allotted, and the name, age, sex, and whether the allottee is of full Indian blood or a mixed blood. The roll shall also state whether the person named is living or dead, and if dead, the approximate date of death shall be stated, when it can be ascertained, together wtih the age of such person at death as near as practicable. No allottment nor allottee thereof shall be enrolled where there is a suit now pending, or hereafter commenced prior to the completion of such roll to cancel any conveyance of such allotment, until such suit has been finally determined." Third amendment : That the unexpended balance of the appropriation for carrying into effect the provisions of the act of June 30, 1913, making appropria- tions for current and contingent expenses of the Indian service for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1914 (38 Stats. L., p. 89), creating a commission to prepare a roU of the allottees within the White Earth Reservation in the State of, Minnesota, and defining the duties of such commission, is hereby reappropriated' and made immediately available for the payment of expenses incurred and salaries earned by the said commissioners, or under their direction, in carrying out the provisions of said act since June 30, 1914, and for the purpose lof continuing the work of such commission under said act. Fourth amendment: That for the completion of the enrollment of the allot- tees within the White Earth Reservation in the State of Minnesota, required by the act of June 30, 1913, as amended by this act, there is hereby appro- priated the sum of $5,000 or so much thereof as may be necessary for that purpose. This appropriation shall continue available until expended or the work of the said commission shall have been completed. Senator Clapp. We put a provision in the bill authorizing the senior judge of the District Court of Minnesota to appoint two men. Senator Page. What are you discussing now, Senator, the proposed amendment to this bill in Minnesota ? 31362—16 30 466 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Clapp. Yes. The District Court was authorized to ap- point two members of a commission, one to be a citizen of Minnesota and the other to be selected by the Department of Justice, and to prepare a roll of the mixed bloods at White Earth, giving the status of the blood. At that time the United States District Court of the District of Minnesota had made a decision that a mixed blood under the law was an Indian who had at least one-eighth wliite blood, so that the amendment as first passed by Congress provided that this commission, in addition to determining whether the Indian was of mixed or full blood, should ascertain the quantum of the blood. Subsequently the Supreme Court held that there was no limitation, that a mixed blood was simply a mixed blood, so that there isi no service rendered now and no benefit obtained by determining the quantum of the Indian blood, the only question being whether an Indian of White Earth Reservation is a mixed blood or a full-blood, so we have amended it to strike out the quantum. I think that is approved by the department, at least there is no objection to that. Senator Page. In other words, if a man has one-sixty-fourth he is a mixed blood? Senator Clapp. He is a mixed blood under the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States. Then the appropriation failed, the whole bill failed last year, so that now we want to re-enact that bill leaving out the requirement of the status, because it takes more time and work to determine just the quantum than it does to do all the rest of the work connected Avith the roll. Senator Page. Is it legislation so that if a point of order is made it will go out ? Senator Clapp. It is only legislation carrying out the provisions of existing law. The law for the roll is already a law, but the appro- priation failed. Now we are proposing to renew the appropriation and at the same time amend the law itself. It has come as a matter of complaint that the Department of Justice named one of these commissioners and he was appointed by the judge. And, by the way, as it may have escaped the minds of the Senators, the original law provided that this roll should not be operative except as from time to time approved by the court itself, making it a judicial act, and that it should not interfere with any suits pending or thereafter brought. One of these commissioners, the one appointed by the Department of Justice, has severed his connection with the commission or has taken up other connections — perhaps that is the better statement — and is now in the employ of private parties so that the first amend- ment I want to offer to the pending law is where it says, "One of whom shall be selected by the Department of Justice," in the third line thereof, and substituting therefor the words, "One of whom shall be an assistant to the Attorney General, and who shall continue such commissioner during the pleasure and under the direction of the Attorney General," so that the Attorney General can substitute a man for this member of the commission who has assumed private service. Senator Page. It seems to me that you are getting a good deal of legislation into an appropriation bill. Senator Clapp. I am, but I am perfecting legislation that is al- ready existing law and which I think anyone who will go through the matter will admit ought to be done. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 467 Senator Page. I was not questioning that. I was suggesting that it might go out on a point of order. Senator Clapp. I do not think it is subject to a point of order. It is to carry out the provisions of existing law. Then the next is strilc- ing out the quantum of blood and simply stating whether the allottee is of full Indian blood or mixed blood. When the law removing the restrictions was passed that law provided that the crust patents theretofore issued should be construed as patents in fee, and in order that the record title might be plainer it was also provided that the department might issue patents in fee upon the application of the allottee. The department has held that must be the personal act of allottee. In some cases allottees have sold their lands, and having no particular interest in the matter they do not interest themselves to ask for a patent, so we ask to amend that, but with this provi- sion: Fee simple patents shall be issued in the names of all allottees, whether living or dead, in those cases where any allotment was at any time held by an adult mixed blood, either as his own allotment or by inheritance, upon the application of any person interested in such an allotment. It is to cure that point in the present law, removing the restric- tions where the department holds that the allotment will only issue upon the personal application of the allottees. Senator Page. Has this been submitted to the department and has it been passed on ? Senator Clapp. Most of it has, and they are matters we have dis- cussed a great many times. I am submitting it as we go along. The assistant commissioner is here. Senator Page. The more you go into it the more, it seems to me, you are getting a pile of legislation I know nothing about. If it has been submitted to the department, that is one thing ; if not, it seems to me we ought to have the assistance and advice of the department. Senator Clapp. We have the assistant commissioner right here. We submit that to him as we go along. Senator Geonna. Is some of this. Senator Clapp, legislation that will in any way clear out some of the titles to some of these Indian lands? . ^, . , Senator Clapp. It does not affect any suit. There is an expressed prohibition. It does clarify the matter where there is no question as to the fact of the individual being a mixed blood and where there is no suit pending. This roll is made under the direction of a court, and from time to time approved by the court. Under the existing law, as I have said, it is held that it will only issue a patent where application is made by the allottee. Now the allottee may have sold his land and gone off somewhere, and there is no reason why the patent should not issue to the grantee, if there is no suit. . 1 . Senator Gronna. No previous claims^ Senator Clapp. No previous claim, and Mr. Meritt has no ob]ec< tion to this in this form, if the simple patents may be issued ir the names, etc. Now, Mr. Van^ Neeter, have you got that pape: we had this morning about the probate proceedings? Mr Van Neeter. This is a copy. Senator Clapp. Show that to Mr. Meritt, please. 468 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Meritt. I have not had an opportunity to study this item of legislation which Mr. Van Neeter has here, and would like to have an opportunity. Senator Clapp. Take your time. I think you will find it in con- formity with what you did compare with Mr. Van Neeter, but in which there was a misplaced expression. Mr. Meeitt. I have not prepared any legislation with Mr. Van Neeter. We have suggested that we could not approve the legisla- tion as he presented it, but this is a new item that I have not con- sidered at all, neither has the office had an opportunity to see it. Senator Clapp. I suggest that the office take time to consider it. Senator Geonna. In connection with this, Mr. Meritt, may I ask you if you will consider a bill in connection with this Senate bill 3070, somewhat similar with this legislation that is being pro- posed here. Senator Clapp. We will let the matter go until to-morrow. Mr. Meeitt. A considerable portion of this legislation which has been offered by Senator Clapp affects more or less the work being done by the Department of Justice, and of course the Depart- ment of Justice is representing the Interior Department in the mat- ter. Mr. Kearful, of the Department of Justice, has written the office after consulting Mr. Powell, who is one of the members of this commission, and he has made suggestions. I see Mr. Kearful is here this morning, and before this legislation is adopted he would like to be heard. Senator Clapp. I did not know that Mr. Kearful was here. I should be very glad indeed to thresh this out with Mr. Kearful. Senator Pittman. This has gone over, has it not ? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Page. We have been here now for three hours. I pre- sume we all have something to do besides attend to Indian affairs. I know I have ; still I like to be here when this bill is being con- sidered. Senator Pittman. There is one matter I should like you to think about before you go — that amendment adopted here a while ago that provides for the segregation of iron and coal values and min- eral deposits. Senator Clapp. I will cover that fully where the Government has not conveyed the land. There is no objection to the language; it is only a question of form. Senator Pittman. That question has resulted in some litigation. Senator Page. I move that the committee adjourn until 10.30 o'clock to-morrow morning. (Thereupon at 1.30 o'clock p. m. the commitee adjourned until Tuesday, February 29, 1916, 10.30 o'clock a. m.) INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. TUESDAY, rEBEUABY 29, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjourmnent. Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman) Myers, Lane, Johnson, Clapp, Page, and Curtis. Arizona. erosion and overflow on gila river. The Chairman. I would like to ask the attention of the commit- tee, if you please, to a bill which I introduced, calendar No. 115, as follows: [S. 4655. 64th Congress, 1st Session.] A BILL Authorizing and directing the Secretary of the Interior to determine the most suitable method of preventing further erosion and overflow on Gila Elver, Arizona. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United ■States of America in Congress assembled. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby Is, authorized and directed to cause to be made by com- petent engineers the necessary examinations. Investigations, and surveys for the purpose of determining the most suitable and practical method or methods of constructing levees, revetments, or other suitable worljs sufficient to pre- vent the Gila River from further eroding and wearing and washing avyay its banljs and from further overflowing its banlis at any point in Graham County, Arizona. Said engineers shall also determine and report upon the most suitable, feasible, and practicable means of holding the said river within a fixed channel as it flows through said Graham County. Said Secretary shall submit to Congress the results of such examinations, in-s-estigations, and surveys, together with an estimate of the cost thereof, with recommenda- tions thereon, at the earliest practicable date. The sum of $15,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for the purpose of conducting said investigations, examinations, and surveys. I will make a brief statement with respect to the bill. It proposes to appropriate $15,000 out of the General Treasury for the purpose of making the necessary investigations and surveys and examinations of the status of affairs respecting the Gila Kiver in Graham County, The Gila Eiver is formed by the junction of the Gila and the San Francisco. It assumes, at times, flood proportions; an enormous 469 470 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. volume of water comes down the river. A large portion of the In- dian reservation is in Graham County. This river cuts its banks as it rises and falls. It has not only cut away many acres of rich In- dian lands but it has also cut away a great many acres of rich land belonging to the whites, and as there was a mutual interest, we might be able to cooperate in an investigation as to what, if anything, could be done with respect to that river. As I have said, the reservation lies partly in Graham County — nearly one half of Graham County is included in the reservation, and it will be of no utility to attempt to investigate the lower part, which is in the county, and leave out any consideration of the upper part of the river, which is in Graham County also. I would like to ask that Mr; Phil C. Merrill of Pima, Graham County, Ariz., be heard in respect to this amendment. STATEMENT OF PHIL C. MERRILL, OF PIMA, ARIZ. The Chairman. What is your name? Mr. Merrill. Phil C. Merrill. The Chairman. Where do you live? Mr. Merrill. In Pima, Graham County, Ariz. The Chairman. You have of course read this bill introduced by me providing for an appropriation of $15,000 to make a survey and investigation as to the status of affairs regarding the Gila River in Arizona ? Mr. Merrill. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Will you please tell the committee briefly what you know about it, and what you think the necessity for the bill is. Mr. Merrill. I have lived in Graham County for about 25 years. The Gila River enters Graham County from the southeast and flows northwesterljf for a distance of about 60 miles through a region that is cultivated partly by white people and partly by Indians on the San Carlos Reservation. The conditions pertaining along that, river for its full length in Graham County are similar — the condi- tions under which the Indians take their water from the river are practically similar to those under which the white men take the water. In the early days a heavy growth of vegetation for a great extent, held back these flood waters and prevented the damage that the river did. We know that for a great many years past that has been increasing until within the past few years the land thkt has been lost by erosion, both on the Indian reservation and above there where the white people have settled, has been very great. It is esti- mated that during the flood just about a month ago, 1500 acres of our vicinity was washed away. We know we are incapable of de- termining what should be done, and we need the assistance of the Department as to what is the best method to control that river, and, as has been mentioned by your Chairman, we know that the interests are mutual as between the whites and the Indians. If we were to take care of the river banks above the Indian reservation it would do them no good below for the same condition exists. As mentioned by the chairman, there are about 1,200 acres that have been in a high state of cultivation by the San Carlos Indians along that river, on the San Carlos Indian Reservation, but I think at the present time, and during this year, they will be unable to cul- INDIAN APPBOPEIATXON BILL. 471 tivate anj' of that land, or practically none of it, because of the fact that there are dams and canals that have been washed away, and it will be necessary, in order to get the Avater on their land again, to have new dams and new canals beside the loss of the land they have sustained. Our object is to enlist Federal aid in engineering questions in order to determine what is the best and most feasible method of con- trolling that stream, for if it is not done, it will not be many years, as conditions are existing now, before practically all the tillable land along the banks of that river will be washed away, because the river, in its meandering course is cutting away each year, and taking away many acres of very valuable land. Senator Page. Could not this examination be made by the engi- neers of the Army? Mr. Merrill. Well, we think perhaps an Army board, or a board appointed by the Interior Department, either, would be suitable. Senator Page. If it was done by the Army engineers, would there be any necessity for this appropriation? Mr. Merrill. I think so. I am not advised of that, but I think so. Senator Page. I had the impression that the Army engineers were sent out to do this kind of work, and that there was a general appro- priation made that would cover the expense; of course, there would be no salary. Mr. Merrill. I am not advised as to that, but I do not so under- stand it. The Chairman. If you will pardon me. Senator, I will say that we looked into that matter and ascertained that it would require an appropriation. Senator Page. For what purpose? The Chairman. Because the War Department would not be au- thorized to send an Army engineer to make an expensive investiga- tion and take the. money for that purpose out of the general fund. It would not be authorized by law to do so. We looked into that feature of it with some degree of care. Senator Page. This is a gratuity appropriation, I understand, from the Treasury? The Chairman. Yes, sir ; of $15,000. Senator Page. Please explain where the necessity for the jexpendi- ture comes in? Mr. Merrill. As I have stated, this tillable land extends a dis- tance of about 60 miles along the river. The valley is narrow and long. The Indian Reservation on the San Carlos is _ about 25 or 30 miles, and the balance is occupied by the white people above it, so you can understand that it would be quite a task to make that survey along the banks of that river to determine what methods are best to control it. Senator Curtis. What efforts have you made to control it « Mr. Merrill. There have been efforts made by farmers by driving piles, etc., but it has been demonstrated that there would have to be some systematic scheme adopted to take care of it all, because one farmer might protect his land and a little above him his neighbor being unable to do the same thing, it would wash behind him and give one more protection than the other. 472 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. Senator Page. Then it is your idea not only to have this investi- gation, but have the Government appropriate the money to protect the land ? Mr. Merrill. That would, of course, be a matter to be followed up. I assume there would have to be some arrangement made whereby the Government would pay its proportion and the property owners their proportion of the expense after the scheme had been adopted to control the river. Senator Curtis. Is most of this damage done in the spring when the snow melts ? Mr. Merrill. There are two seasons of the year — the spring and the summer-time, during the summer rains. It is not so much the overflow that damages us as it is the erosion. Senator Curtis. The silt that comes down ? Mr. Merrill. Not the silt but the water that washes it away. Senator Curtis. But the silt does come down and helps to do that ? Mr. Merrill. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Has not this question been pretty thoroughly in- vestigated by the Geological Survey? Mr. Merrill. Not that I know of. Senator Curtis. Did they not, some 10 years ago, go all over the Gila River and make a report upon that subject? Mr. Merrill. Not that I have been informed of. I think they made an investigation of the amount of water Senator Curtis. That came down in the flow ? Mr. Merrill. That money was appropriated for irrigation pur- poses, etc.; but as far as this matter particularly is concerned, I have heard of no report upon the question. Senator Curtis. I did not mean that they had reported on what was necessary to prevent the washing; they did not investigate for that purpose, but they did investigate as to the flow and as to the seasons of the year when the flows were bad. Mr. Merrill. Yes, sir ; I think that is correct. Senator Curtis. Has any effort been made, Mr. Chairman, to get the Geological Survey to make an investigation and report on this subject? The Chairman. I will say we have consulted the Arizona delega- tion in Congress, and these two gentlemen from Arizona — we have consulted with the Secretary of the Interior upon the matter. We had a personal interview. Senator Curtis. Did you go over the records of the Geological Survey ? The Chairman. No; we' did not have a consultation with the director himself. We took it up with the Secretary direct. Senator Page. Does he think this action is an appropriate one on our part? The Chairman. I am not at liberty to quote him. I think I ma^' go far enough to say that he certainly expressed no opposition to it. It is always dangerous to quote a man imless you have it in writing. However, I am willing to say for this record that I had an extended interA'iew with the Secretary on last Saturday, and he is not opposed to this matter. On the contrary, he looked Avith con- siderable favor and sympathy xipon.it. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 473 Senator Page. I do not want to oppose a $15,000 appropriation lOT your State, but if we have officials whose duty it is to make these investigations— the Geological Survey or the Board of Army Engineers — I do not know whether it is a healthy precedent to establish or not. The Chairman. If you will pardon me, you will recall, I think, that there was some discussion in 1912 on the question as to whether the Board of Army Engineers— Senator Curtis will remember the occurrence — had the authority to make an investigation and a report to Congress, unless they were specifically charged with that duty. 1 looked it up at the time and came to the conclusion that it would require an act of Congress or an amendment to the Indian appropria- tion bill to authorize any board of Army engineers, under the direc- tion of the Interior Department, to go out and make an investiga- tion, unless they were authorized by Congress to do that. I have a very definite impression in 1912 I looked it up. Senator Page. What is the duty of the Board of Army Engineers or of the Geological Survey if it is not to take up matters of the most pressing importance and focus their minds upon it and make a report ? The Chairman. Their duties are manifold, but an appropriation of money from the Federal Treasury can not be used for a particular purpose, except in accordance with a bill duly passed and which shall become a law. You can not, under ominum gatherum, detail men to do certain work unless the law is written that way. Senator Page. I supposed the law was written in that way. The Chairman. In other words, money must be expended in pur- suance of a bill or a joint resolution, of course. There are men around this table who have had more experience on these subjects than I have. Senator Page. It may be expended in pursuance of a general act or a specific act. We appropriate large sums of money, and they are supposed, as it seems to me, to be devoted to just such investiga- tions as the one proposed here. The Chairman. I know of no authority for that ; I certainly have been unable to find any authority to permit any Army board to go here and make this investigation except we pass an act of this kind. Senator Page. What particular reasoning led you to believe that this $15,000 was the proper sum to appropriate here? The Chairman. In 1912 the Army board was authorized to make an investigation as to the feasibility, practicability, and suitability of a reservoir site at San Carlos. I was a member of. the committee at that time; $15,000 was appropriated. A board of Army engineers was duly authorized to make the investigation, but we learned that the $16,000 was not sufficient, and in 1913 a deficiency appropriation of $10,000 more was made to pay the expense of that investigation. Now, this will by no means be as comprehensive or as extensive as that one was, and I came to the conclusion that if we asked for $25,000 for that, this ought to be done for $15,000. Senator Page. Senator Curtis, you have had a great deal of experi- ence on this line. What do you say about this establishing a ])rece- dent that will return to vex us at any time? Senator Curtis. It will be like every one that we have heretofore established. Next year they will come in and ask for $100,000; the 474 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. next year for $200,000, and the next year for $300,000. This com- mittee has never established a precendent of tliis kind with respect to any of these matters that has not been abused. Tliey commenced with a small appropriation — as you will observe if you will look over the bills-— and they keejD growing year by year. My own judgment is, that if the Senator wants this done he ought to go to the Geologi- cal Survey, and I think they will tell him very frankly that if he can get a very small increase in their general appropriation, if they have not enough now, that they will send men down to make this investigation and make a full report, without establishing a prece- dent in this committee, by appropriating for something of this kind. Senator Page. Does not this appropriation look forward to a much larger appropriation next year? The Chairman. We are in the dark, both as to the Indians and as to the whites. I am very familiar with the proposition. It is a meritorious appropriation in my opinion. Here is a river that is cutting away rich Indian land and similarly cutting away rich land of the whites, yeai' by year. This is a small county. There is not a millionaire in the county, but it is filled with most excellent citizens. We do not Imow how to reach the matter. I had at first an adea of introducing a bill providing an appropriation of $100,000, but I re- flected on it and thought there should first be some investigation made by somebody authorized by Congress. So I have put my cards on the table. I want to to see them. I want you to say whether there should be an inventigation or not. If the Army board inves- tigates it, or the Board of Engineers investigates it, and they say we can do nothing, and ought to do nothing, or we are unable to do anything, we can do no more. Senator Page. I agree with you that there ought to be something done about this matter. The Chairman. If the Army board says, " We ought to do some- thing," then we can proceed, at least in law, on some technical in- formation upon which we can rely. That is my — ^I would not say excuse because this is so meritorious that it needs no excuse— but that is my reason for introducing this amendement. Senator Page. All of your suggestions are meritorious. Senator. I'he Chairman. That is very kind of you. I wish I could be-, lieve it. Senator Lane. Did I understand you to say you wished you could return the compliment? The Chairman. I can do so and am glad to. Senator Curtis. I think something should be done, but I believe if you should go to the Geological Survey you could get this done at a very nominal expense, and perhaps all you would have to do would be to get a small increase in their general appropriation. They have a general appropriation out of Avhich they could make an investigation of this kind. The Chairman. Is the Geological Survey equipped with sufficient engineers to make an investigation of this kind ? Senator Curtis. I do not know ; they would tell you in a very few minutes if you would see them. If you should go down and talk with the director he would tell you in a very few minutes what he could do. Senator Page. Perhaps Mr. Meritt can tell us. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 475 Senator Ccrtis. I do not know that fhey can do it at all. The Chairman. I would rather have Congress do it than the Bureau — I mean no reflection upon the Bureau. I woulcl rather have Congress take it up. Mr. Mebitt. So far as my knowledge goes, the Geological Survey has not made such an investigation as it is proposed to be made here. The Geological Survey has made an investigation of certain features of the Gila River, for example, the average flow of the river. Senator Curtis. That being true, why are they not best equipped to do this work? They have all this information on hand now, and all that would be necessary to have this work done by them would be to have a study of the nature of the soil of the banks' and then report what work would be necessary to protect that bank from washes in the spring floods or the summer floods. They have the data as to the flow. They know all about it. They have that much information on hand. If you sent it to a new department it will have to investi- gate and find out those things. They have the facilities for studying soil; they Imow all about it; they know the nature of the soil already, probably ; I know that they have studied the flow of the water already because I have read their report upon it. Mr. Meritt. The board of Army engineers has also made a report as to certain features of the San Carlos River, for example, the San Carlos Reservoir site. So far as the Indian Office is concerned, we would be very glad to have this appropriation, because this river flows through the Pima Indian Reservation and has damaged a large acreage of land, which is being destroyed annually by this river. If any scheme can be devised by which this wild river can be kept within its banks, it will be very helpful to the Pima Indians. The Chairman. I am very glad to receive that statement. My colleague. Senator Mark Smith is here now. Senator Smith, we have up my bill proposing to appropriate $15,000 to make investiga- tion and examination for the purpose of controlling the Gila River in Arizona. STATEMENT OF HON. MARK SMITH, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM ARIZONA. Senator Smith of Arizona. Mr. Chairman, I do not know what I could say in addition to what has already been said by Mr. Merrill and Mr. Pace — if they have in fact said anything to the committee. The Chairman. Mr. Merrill has made a statement to the com- mittee. Senator Smith of Arizona. If you will start in on the Gila River about 10 miles above where Solomonsville is now situated — and will be unless the river washes it away some of these days — you will ob- serve that the river comes down at a jjretty solid formation. It strikes this alluvial level plain. It serves a most prosperous commu- nity. They have worked harder and got less from the Government than any other irrigation people that I know of, except some of the places in Utah in the early days. They have never received one cent of compensation from the Government in any way ; not a dollar. By their own industry starting back in the days of the Indians up until now, they have developed a community that is an honor to any 476 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. country, and which possesses as good citizenship as any State of the Union. Now this river, when it comes down with its great floods, disem- boweling itself at the month onto the alluvial plain, begins to cut these trenches, and a bride that I have seen at Florence standing a mile and a half out in the dry plain that once covered the stream — an expensive bridge — it stands there to-day a monument to the treachery of that river. Senator Page. Is it a monument too to the foolishness of any of our officials ? The Chairman. The State built it. Senator Smith of Arizona. Oh, the State built it. You need not think there is anything there that our officials had anything to do with, except probably laying the burden of taxes upon the people. Senator Page. It was wisely built, when it was built, in your judgment, was it? Sentor Smith of Arizona. It was built at the best possible place on the Gila River, down at Florence. If I had a phtograph, I could show you the condition. Senator Page. How much do you think there will probably be required from the Federal Treasury later on if this investigation is made? Senator Smith of Arizona. I do not know that it will require any- thing. These men can make the investigation, a scientific investiga- tion, as to the proper way of handling this river, and, especially if it is done above it will not only help these people above where these particular men live (indicating Mr. Merrill and Mr. Pace) but it will help everybody on the Gila River at the San Carlos Reserva- tion. It flows doAvn through the Maricopa Reservation and goes on and empties into the Colorado at Yuma, Ariz., on the line of the Cali- fornia and Arizona. Now to put the burden on these people of hold- ing that river in check for the benefit of the Indians, for the benefit of two great American Avhite irrigation schemes, and for these men to bear the whole burden of keeping that river within its flow, if it is not done above them it is a waste to all. So that this is not a mere scheme to help these men here and sev- eral other farmers. It is also to keep a regular channel for the Indians on the Maricopa Reservation, to the white people in the Florence Reservation, and to the Indians in the Florence Reserva- tion, who are going to get a greater benefit from it under the bill, if it is passed, than anybody else that I know of. So this whole scheme must look to the Government at least for a legitimate means of accomplishing the purpose of holding that river within its boundaries or else it will become a ruinous flood and will wash everybody away. Senator Page. Would you regard this appropriation as a proper one to make here if there were no Indians there ? Senator Smith of Arizona. Unquestionably; whether there was or not I would regard it as such for this reason, which it is difficult for people to understand : Arizona was admitted as a State, and you will be amazed at the statement of fact that at the time of admis- sion the Federal Government absolutely owned, controlled, and has reserved 90 per cent of the available valuable land in that State, INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 477 and we are forced to levy taxation on cattle and mines and town lots. That is what we have got to run the State on. The Govern- ■ ment has land to such an extent that I think the whole of the New England States would be covered by the different reservations of my State alone. Senator Page. I have been through one of your counties, which, I know, is larger than my State. Senator Smith of Arizona. There are plenty of them. New Hampshire, Vermont, Massuchusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecti- cut would certainly not cover the reservations of Arizona. Now, we are left in that attitude. How ? By taking away our power to tax ourselves for any improvements. As I have stated, 90 per cent of the really valuable lands in the State are held by the Government, and you are putting a burden on these people who have spent their lives, and their children's children are there now working out the same problems that their fathers had and that their grandfathers had. Now, it is just a question whether Congress will pass this resolu- tion to give us that small amount of money for investigation, not only for those gentlemen there but for everybody on the Gila River from its source to where it empties. As soon as it comes out it spreads, and in the very next place you find the shortage is at the Indian reservation in Maricopa County known as the Maricopa Res- ervation. There was a bridge there three-quarters of a mile long or more — a bridge that these waters have swept away, coming into another channel and coming down into Pinal Valley, and washed that bridge, three-quarters of a mile long, completely away. There (indicating) is one of the bridges. You will see what it does to a bridge standing there a quarter of a mile long. Senator Page. It occurred to me that this was an examination which looked forward to a very large appropriation some time in the future from the Federal Treasury. Senator Smith of Arizona. I know; but even if it does it is a question for Congress's discretion to say, even then when it comes up, whether it would be a wise appropriation or not. Senator Page. That is right ; we do not know from this bill, at least I did not know when this bill was first read, whether it was a harm- less bill calling for simply $15,000, or something that looked forward to $5,000,000. Senator Smith of Arizona. It will ne\'er get to any such figure as that. It would be futile. I want to say that I would never advocate . an expenditure of more money than is provided for in this resolution, but then it would be before you gentlemen to take it off if you had that bigger proposition here. You have been given the information, and that is all we are asking in this resolution, and if Congress will not help, you will at least let every man on the Gila River kno^v what is the best thing to do to keep that river within it bounds. Senator Page. I think that is correct. Senator Smith of Arizona. But if they can not do it, then they may come to Congress and it will be within the wisdom of you gen- tlemen to say. . , , . n T , Senator Page. Would you thmk this would be a proper matter for the Indian Committee to take up on the Indian appropriation bill? 478 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Smith of Arizona. I unquestionably think so, because I Imow of no other committee to send it to. The Commerce Committee has nothing to do with that, because they deal with navigable streams. • The Committee on Appropriations has nothing to do with it. They would say, "We have nothing to do with this part of the business; why do you not go to some other of your committees?" The Agri- cultural Committee has nothing to do with it, for it does not deal with Indian questions at all; and I will state frankly that it is brought here because I do not know where else to send it. That is the reason it is before as good a committee as there is in this body. Senator Page. Oh, yes ; it is a splendid committee. Senator Smith of Arizona. There is not one crank on it as big a , crank as I am. But, gentlemen, this ought to be done not only because of the suggestions I have made, but because of the question that is naturally raised — and I think you gentlemen as able legis- lators, always raise the question as to whether tliis is an entering wedge to rob the Treasury hereafter. We have seen departments grow that have started with $500 or $700 or $800. But I submit that it is essential that this knowledge be given us by the Government on account of the condition in the State and the condition of the Indians and the condition of the white men, for they are put exactly in the same fix down there, and that we at least ought to give it to the State and the people and let our State handle it, or the people try to handle it, and when they have obtained a scientific Imowledge of the situation then we can do our very best. If I come to Congress again for another dollar of help, I hope to be able to show Congress that they can not avoid it; but if Congress in its wisdom says, "We can not afford to go into this sort of thing as it will set a precedent for a hundred other cases," and decide against me, why that is for the occasion and the time when it comes. Very likely I will be, as I have sometimes been before on the most virtuous matters, cut off from any further communication with the Treasury Department. But this ought to be done, and these men who have spent their time in coming up here to attend to it ought to know how to do it, for I do not know how it could be done. It would take a scientific engineering proposition to say whether what little land is left in Arizona is to be ruined by the river, or whether Congress, out of its abundance, will say, "We will give you a little aid, at least a scientific investigation, and see whether you can possibly j^ourselves handle this problem or not." Gentlemen I have another committee to attend, and will have to . retire; I thank you very much for your attention. Senator Lane. I would like to ask you. Senator Ashurst, how much Indian land is involved in this matter. The Chaieman. About 1,200 acres of cultivated below a place called Geronimio, but several thousand acres of Indian reservations are within this county. Senator Lane. And how much of the white man's land ? The Chairman. About 30,000 acres cultivated by the whites, but 1,200 acres at one point on the river belong to the Indians. Senator Lane. Is it reimbursable? The Chairman. No, sir ; it is not reimbursable out of any fund. Senator Lane. It is to be an appropriation from the Treasury De- partment ? INDIAN APPEOPEIATTON BILL. 479 The Chairman. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. The solution, and the only solution of these wash- outs in the long run in Arizona, where you have that trouble — you have fine land below and the flood comes down on it every yeai- — is to impound the water, is it not ? Mr. Merrill. That is a question to be determined. Senator Lane. You will never get out of it in any other way. Mr. Merrill. That is a question for the engineers. I think they will tell us whether that is the most feasible. Senator Lane. And whether j^ou will have water to let doAvn on the land when you get it. In the other way it runs away and goes to waste in the summer time in that country, and you will have to begin a system in the mountains of impounding the water into the ravines and all the gulches leading into the main streams, and when you have done that you have stopped the waste and have water impounded for irrigation. That is the only solution of it. How else can you do it unless you dike it and levee the rivers, and then you will be in a condition lilie the Mississippi — you will have your river up above the lands after a while. Senator Page. Do you not think this becomes an irrigation prob- lem within a short time, and is something that so slightly affects the Indians that it ought to be made a general proposition rather than an Indian proposition? Mr. Merrill. I think the Indians are vitally affected by it. I Imow that from my observation and experience. Senator Page. Do you say they have 1,200 acres of land ? The Chairman. That is only at one point. Senator. Senator Page. We had much better buy that land of the Indians and let it be destroyed than to go into a $100 or $200 or $500 project here with its possibilities of loss and risk, as we have done in several irrigation projects. I do not want to interpose any further objec- tion to this proposition, Senator. I do want to know more about it. STATEMENT OF ME. W. W. PACE, THATCHER, ARIZ. Mr. Pace. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the people there are try- ing to teach the San Carlos Indians the art of cultivating the farms, that is, agriculture, and as the matter stands now, and as it is going, it will be only a very short time before there will be no lands on the San Carlos Indian Reservation for these men to farm. It is not only the value of the 1,200 acres of land, but when that is gone it has all gone. When those farms are gone they can not be replaced; they will not be on the reservation for the Indians to be taught this art of agriculture. Senator Page. Let us pursue that investigation a little further. If you have some land there that is worth a one-tenth part of the expense it will take to conserve that land, should we start in in Con- gress with a proposition that looks to conserving at a great deal more than the value of the property conserved ?. Mr. PACfi. Senator, we do not think it is ever going to run into that kind of cost. We have our ideas, but we have no way of deter- mining the best means. We have no board of engineers to give us absolute knowledge. We have had no experience. That waste has 480 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. been going on within the last few years worse than it ever has been. We gas along very nicely for a good many years, bnt later the burden has become so heavy that we can not stand it, and we do not know how to control the situation. We have an idea by which private individuals will expend a few thousand dollars over there. That has some effect; but each man has his own peculiar ideas about it; one man works it out one way and another another. We do not work con- certedly. The proposition that our Senator has so kindly consented to intro- duce here is for a small appropriation that we might know what is best, and that the Government, through the War Department, or through some of the corps of engineers that they have, and through their experience in cases of this kind, they might give us a plan set- ting out what could be done to keep this river under control and to keep it in one channel. As long as it runs straight we have no trouble, but when it runs straight a mile, or such matter, it will take a turn over that way and bore out a section of country, and then turn and go the other way. It is a curving, tortuous stream there, and it is ruining some towns and breaking up some of the best citizens of our country. Senator Page. I have a very fine meadow that is being eatefl into every year, but I have no idea of coming to Congress for assistance. Mr. Pace. This is quite a big stream, and the final result of it will be to depopulate the San Carlos Indians who are farming part of their reservation. That will be the end of the matter. It is cutting into that. Senator Page. I think I have reached my purpose. I rather think the appropriation is one that we ought to make. I did, however, want to draw out the fact, because it seemed to me to be a proposition that was to be an entering wedge and that there would be quite a large demand on the part of Arizona upon the Federal Treasury. Mr. Pace. We can see some places in Arizona where we could use that money nicely, but we hardly think we will be able to get it. It is not the intention that this should be an entering wedge for larger appropriations; it is simply in order that we may know just where we are. We want you to tell us what can be done in a scientific way and an effective way, and we do not know anybody else to look to except the Army engineers or some corps of engineers of the General Government. The Chairman Let me say, lest some misapprehension may arise from my statement as to 1,200 acres being irrigated, I meant at one particular point. I have in my hand the report made to Congress in 1914 regarding these Indians. It says some 15,000 acres of Indian lands are irrigated. I would not want the Senators to get the impression that that was the only territory. Senator Lane. No ; you said several others. If you gentlemen had brought this in as a definite proposition, to go up into those moun- tains and put in dams and- catchment basins in and across, the ravines that feed into the river or channel, and hold that, water in there for irrigation, you would at the same time stop the erosion. I would like to see this Government make large appropriations to help Arizona to do that, and as well all over the country. They have the richest land in the world. The water comes down in a rush, and they not INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 481 only get no use of the water but it destroys valuable land. Even- tually that will have to be done. I have been in Arizona many times, and have felt that I would like to be superintendent of the job and hold that water. It would make of it the most fertile and richest State in the Union. There is no doubt of that. I suppose some one, however, would grab the water from the Indians. I think that ought to be provided for. They could utilize an appropriation ot a million dollars in Arizona for that purpose; it is wise, and I know of no other place in the world where they have so much water at certain seasons and get so little use of it, or where it could be used for better purposes. There is not a State in the Union that compares with it ; if it had water that is the truth of it. The Chairman. I appreciate the statement of the Senator. It is a very fair statement. He says that the water will be gobbled up by the Indians Senator Lane. No; I did not say the Indians. The Chairman. Or gobbled away from the Indians. Senator Lane. Yes. The Chairman. I want to say at once for Arizona that there is no State in the Union where the Indians are better protected. Senator Lane. I hope so. The Chairman. They are protected so well that the newspapers almost unanimously say you have to be an Indian to get anything. Only a month ago a reservation of 3,000,000 acres was created for them, for a certain tribe. No State has provided the Indians better with respect to water rights and land rights than has the State of Arizona, We have the largest Indian population of any State in the Union except Oklahoma. Every possible right that imagination could conceive the Indians have in my State. Senator Lane. If it is proven that Arizona does protect the water rights of the Indians when this scheme is carried out — this project — then I will be willing to vote for another appropriation to present the State with a gold medal. The Chairman. Mr. Pace, have you anything further to say ? Mr. Pace. If there are no other questions to be asked, I have fin- ished. I do not desire to take up the time of the committee, as I know you have important matters to consider. Mr. Merrill. We desire to thank the committee very much for its courtesy. The Chairman. What is the pleasure of the committee? Do you want to consider this bill now or take it up later? Do you desire to vote now ? If not, is there any objection to the bill ? Senator Curtis. Are you offering it as an amendment to the ap- propriation bill ? The Chairman. No; I have framed it as a separate and inde- pendent bill. . . . T , Senator Curtis. I have no objection to its being introduced as a separate bill if it is not to be an amendment to the Indian appropria- tion bill. , , .11 « ,10 The Chairman. May I report the bill favorably^ (Without objection the chairman 'was authorized to report the bill favorably.) 31362—16 31 482 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. I would suggest to you for your own convenience, and in order to hasten this matter, that you consult with the Geologi- cal Survey, and then go before the Committee on Appropriations and ask them to increase in the sundry civil bill their general appro- priation by a small amount, and you would probably get what you want. The Chairman. I think there is wisdom in your suggestion, Senator, and I shall avail myself of it. MINNESOTA NEXT LAKE. Senator Clapp. Mr. Meritt, I have talked with Congressman Miller, and I think the best way to deal with the Nett Lake matter ' is to withdraw it for the present. If in the meantime you can get a description so it can be put in the record by the time the Indian bill goes through, I can then put it on as an amendment on the floor. Senator Page. That is to protect your fine trees there on that lake? Senator Clapp. No. So to avoid going through the formality of a motion to reconsider, with the permission of the committe, I will simply withdraw the Nett Lake church item. ENROLLMENT, CHIPPEWAS OF MINNESOTA. Senator Clapp. Yesterday we were at work on continuing the law for this enrollment, and the Indian OfSce, with the representative of ' the Department of Justice, took the matter up. We have con- cluded Senator Page. Is that a separate bill, or an amendment to this bill? Senator Clapp. No ; it was an amendment here. We had covered everything except the probate matter and a reconsideration of some other matter. On the whole, I think we will not ask for the probate item to go in. One or the items we put in was this provision — -and I might say that the Department of Justice is not friendly to this enrollment matter at all. I think it was friendly when we passed it two years ago. Last session we recommended it and reappropriated the money, but as we all know the appropriation bill failed. When the law was passed removing these restriction it provided that the allottees could have their restrictions removed where they were mixed bloods, but the department holds the application must be made by the allottee himself. Well, it has often happened that an allottee would sell his land ; he might go off to some other place, and it was impossible to get him to make the application. So we put this provision in : Fee-simple patents may be issued in the name of the allottee, whether living or dead, in those cases where allotment was at one time held by an adult mixed blood, either as his own allotment or by inheritance, upon the application of any person interested in such allotment. Now the office has changed that by making it read in this way : Fee-simple patents may be issued in the names of the allottees of the White Earth Reservation upon the application of such allottee or any person inter- ested in such an allotment. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 483 Of course, the words " upon the application of such allottee " are surplusage. They were in the original because the law already Con- templates the allottee making the application. The only thing we wish to add M'as the right of the party in interest. Senator Ctjrtis. Do you not cover the question by having patent issue to their heirs? Senator Clapp. Certainly; this follows the provision of the roll. The roll is to be made out under the direction of the district court and approved by the district court. Senator Page. Now, will you not give us the purpose of this legis- lation so that we can understand better the idea of it? I do not seem to know what you are seeking to accomplish. Senator Clapp. In 1906, I think it was, an amendment was passed removing the restrictions as to the mixed bloods on the White Earth Reservation and making the trust patent a patent in fee; also pro- viding that the Secretary of the Interior might issue a fee patent, because a fee patent on the record would be much clearer evidence than the mere fact of the deed by the allottee in which he testified or stated that he was a mixed blood. There has been a great deal of complication, and a great many suits have been brought on the matter, but in 1913 we passed a pro- vision authorizing the district judge for the district of Minnesota, the Federal judge^ to appoint a commission to consist of one citizen of Minnesota and 'one man to be designated by the Department of Justice, and we provided that they should go on then and make a list, giving the status, mixed or full blood, and also giving the quantum of the Indian blood. Senator Page. For what purpose was that wanted? Senator Clapp. I Avas going. to tell you. At that time the district judge of the district court, or Federal court of Minnesota, had held that in order to be a mixed blood the person had to have at least one- eighth of white blood, and to meet that requirement that provision of the quantum was put in. Subsequently the Supreme Court of the United States in that case held' that mixed blood was any quan- tity of white blood, so it is of no use now to waste time in trying to establish the quantum of blood. The only fact is mixed or full blood. So we struck out that requirement. We went over that yesterday and I explained it. Senator Page. How many Indians are there who are affected by this legislation? Senator Clapp. Oh, I can not tell you. Senator Page. Is the matter so far removed from probabilities that you do not know, Mr. Meritt, as to the probable number? Is it a matter of great importance or is it a matter affecting only a. few Indians ? Mr. Meeitt. There are 6.217 Indians on the White Earth Eeserva- tion, and 4,498 of these Indians are mixed blood. Senator Clapp. This only affects those cases — this provision that I am discussing now. The law provided that the trust patent should be a patent in fee, and the Secretary might, in supplementing that, issue a patent in fee so that the record would show in the register of deeds' office the county in which the land was. But the depjartment has held that the application must be made by the allottee himself. Novr, where an 484 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. allottee has sold his land he has no more interest in it. He may have gone off, and it is impossible in that case to get the patent in fee and to correct that that this provision was put in, that it might be on the application of the party in interest as well as the allottee, and I understand the office has no objection to that particular feature. Senator Page. Do you not think that a matter that affects 5,000 Indians is sufficiently important so that if the department is op- posed to it we ought to have a representative of the department here to answer your statement? Senator Clapp. We have the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs and we have also a representative of the Department of Justice here. Senator Cuetis. It seems to me that it is a very dangerous propo- sition. Of course, the Indians are treated the same, we will assume, in nearly every State. There are men who are buying titles from them for almost nothing, robbing them of their land, and paying them just a few dollars. That has occurred in Kansas and it is oc- curring in Oklahoma. It has occurred in every State where restric- tions have been removed. Now you put it into the hands of one of those men, while at the same time you protect the land that is bought honestly and for full value — yet you put in the hands of men who would rob the Indian of his title and secure a deed from him for $10, we will say, the power to get from the department a patent. Senator Clapp. Why, of course, when this law was passed it was contemplated that some of those people would lose their property. There was a poorhouse, I think, in every county, almost, in the United States for the white men. We had to adopt some rule. Now, if you left it to the department as to the competency of each individual, in the first place you could not tell definitely as to his competency until he had an oportunity to be tried. Senator Curtis. But you do not catch my point. Senator Clapp. Yes ; I am showing you what preceded this. So we adopted the rule of the mixed blood. The Indian Office, in 1905 or 1906, I forget which year, as I recall it, had recommended or stated that the mixed bloods of the White Earth were competent to take care of their affairs. There was never a tribe of Indians at White Earth. White Earth was made a sort of residuary reservation, and, of course, as a rule the most developed of the Indians went there. That reservation probably presented the highest average of any other. So we passed this law removing the restrictions as to adult-mixed bloods, and as to any allotments, that became the property by inherit- ance or otherwise of an adult mixed-blood. Now, that right has been granted and these suits were brought. The fact that some have not been brought is evidence that there is some probability that there ought not to be brought. This expressly excludes from its operation — I think it would exclude it anyway, but so that there can be no criticism that we were trying to interfere with these suits, this roll that was provided for in 1913 expressly ex- cluded from its operation any suit then pending or thereafter brought. Now, while it is undoubtedly true that some of these Indians sold their lands for less than they were worth, yet they had the right to sell them. That land may originally have passed into the hands of men for less than it was worth, but in the meantime it has passed into INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 485 the hands of men for what it is worth, and the man is trying to make a farm out of it. He wants to put a mortgage on that land. In order to get a fee patent under the law as it is to-day, the depart- ment holds that the original alottee must ask for it. Whatever may be said as to whether he got enough for his land or not, he sold it. He has no interest in it. The man who has got it to-day in many cases is making a farm of it, and why should he be embarrassed; why should he be compelled to rely upon the effect of the law? It is absolute. If that original Indian grantee was a mixed-blood then under the law the trust patent became a fee patent and the title passed. Now, it simply helps him in negotiating his loan to get a fee patent, and why should he be embarrassed ? "Why should he not be allowed to make the application himself? Senator Cuktis. I think for two reasons; in the first place, the Indian, if he applies for a patent it is evidence to the department that he wants to sell. If the restrictions were removed or he had sold, and conveyed to an innocent party, of course that party should have his title perfected. But the Senator knows from his experi- ence that Indians have been induced to sign deeds when they thought they were signing promissory notes. Senator Clapp. Undoubtedly. Senator Ctjetis. Now, then, if an Indian was required to file an ap- plication for patent, that Indian would know and would advise the department whether or not he intended to sell, and if he was robbed of his patent in that way and signed a deed when he thought he was signing some other kind of a paper the department would not issue the patent, and the party would have to show the transaction affirm- atively in court. Senator Clapp. This law does not contemplate that the department should issue a patent. This law is simply permissive. It simply provides that the department may, in a case where it thinks it is right to issue it, issue it to the beneficiary. Senator Curtis. Now, if the Indian complained, or did not protest, and had nothing in the department as evidence that the party had not sold, naturally that patent would issue and great harm might be done an innocent Indian who had never sold his property. Then, take another case — and the Senator knows of cases of the kind; I am calling his attention to where they forged the Indians' names to deeds and the Indians never knew anything about it. There is a rec- ord showing that large numbers of deeds have been forged by one Indian, the name signed without authority by one Indian — 100 dif- ferent people to whom patents have been issued. Now, if you pass this law that you ask for, if deeds were forged on a reservation the parties could file their application to the department and the de- partment would issue a patent and never know anything about whether the deed was forged or not. Senator Clapp. The department can investigate every one of those C3.S6S. Senator Ctjrtis. It can do it, but will the department do it if there is nothing on the record to show them that there is a question about the transaction? Senator Clapp. In view of the fact that 1,500 cases have been brought, this act contemplates bringing more cases — cases hereafter brought as well as those pending. 486 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. What do you mean by cases brought? Suits in court ? Senator Clapp. Suits in court. Senator Curtis. What is the necessity for bringing suits in court? Has this legislation led to a lot of litigation that is going to con- tinue ? If so, we had better repeal the legislation. Senator Clapp. No ; then it would simply make a thousand times more litigation. Where we have given the rights we can not take them back. Senator Curtis. What is the idea of putting this on the appropria- tion bill ? Why do you not frame a bill with the aid of the depart- ment representing the Indians that will protect all parties, a bill that will cover the case? Senator Clapp. We are not asking for any bill covering this reser- vation. This matter hung up here from 1907 to date. A very few patents have been issued. Now the department indicates a willing- ness to go on and issue patents where there is no question. Senator Curtis. This is the situation then — of course, I was not here when this bill was up at the last session and do not know much about it — ^but as I understand the situation from the brief statement you have made this morning, trust patents were issued to those Indians under the act perhaps of 1887. Senator Clapp. Yes, many of them — most of them. Senator Curtis. Now, they have trust patents? Senator Clapp. Yes. X Senator Curtis. The title was not perfect for 26 years. Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Curtis. Now, in the meantime Congress passed an act re- moving restrictions on the part bloods which would allow them to .sell their property? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Curtis. And directed that a fee simple patent be issued upon application. Senator Clapp. Well, permitted. Senator Curtis. Well, permitted; that is right. Now, without se- curing a fee simple title, or rather, without securing the final patent, a large number of the citizens of your State have purchased from individual Indians their title, taking deeds without asking for the final patent to be issued? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Curtis. And they filed those of record? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Curtis. Now, as I understand it, suits are being brought by the people who purchased from the men originally or by the men who bought from the Indians, to perfect that title? Senator Clapp. No. Senator Curtis. Then what is it ? Senator Clapp. The Government has brought suits to set aside those conveyances. Senator Curtis. Upon what ground? Senator Clapp. Originally, so far as I am able to understand, upon the ground that it was claimed that the law was void. Of course that had to be abandoned. Then after the decision of the judge up there, that they require one-eighth Indian blood, I understand that they INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 487 relied then upon being able to show that in a great many of these casesthe allottee did not have one-eighth white blood. After that decision was made, so far as I am informed — I never have seen one of those complaints — I am informed that up to that time the word "fraud" never appeared in a complaint, but that since that time some of the complaints have been amended so that now they allege in the conveyances. They brought suits indiscriminately. They brought suits to set aside, and that is no condemnation or criticism I want to say of the existing oiScers either of the Department of Justice or of the Department of the Interior; that was all done in the past — they brought suits to set aside mortgages where the satis- faction of the mortgage was of record. When I called the attention of the Atorney General to that some years ago he very easily dis- posed of the question by saying, " Naturally, if the mortgage is paid, the mortgagee does not object to a suit to cancel it?" I said, " No; lie hails with delight the opportunity, after he has discharged his mortgage of record, to employ a lawyer and pay him $25 to file a disclaimer." Suits were brought in some cases in those days where as to a brother and sister, one would be alleged of mixed blood and the other full blood by the very rolls that were being prepared. Now I am not seeking to interfere — I could not interfere if I wanted to — with those suits. But in this provision for a roll two years ago, in order to clear up the matter and clear out those about which the department had no claim, we prepared this roll provision, and in order to exclude even the claim that it was an effort to cir- cumvent those suits, the provision was put in that it should not apply to them. That roll provision was removed last year, but as we all know the bill failed. The only addition I am seeking at this time to the roll provision is this, first, it has been suggested that inasmuch as the suits are in the hands of the Department of Justice, of course the Department of Justice has nothing to do with mixed bloods, but it does not attempt to set aside any deed, nevertheless the relation of the Department of Justice to the whole matter was such that it was claimed that the Department of Justice ought to have the naming of one of these commissioners, and in the meantime I understand it is urged — I am not advised as to the facts, and I do not care because we have made provision to eliminate him anyway — that the com- missioner named by the court has come into the employment of pri- vate parties. So 1 have changed the bill this year to provide that one of these shall be named directly by the Department of Justice and be an Assistant Attorney General, which would seem to put him beyond any question. Then the other amendment which I have sought here, and about which there can be no question, as I have explained before, when the roll matter was first brought in and put on the bill in 1913, the judge had held this one-eighth blood propo- sition ; so it was thought best to give the exact quantum of Indian or white blood. The court now having held that it is not material what the quantum is, and as the Senator will see, it will involve an immense amount of work to trace out the quantum, when it would be comparatively an easy matter to determine whether ^e was a mixed blood or not. 488 INDIAlf APPROPRIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. Full blood or part blood ; that is the question ? Senator Clapp. Yes. But I have striclien out the pro^'ision requir- ing the quantum. Now in this provision, not necessarily a part of the roll matter though I think it logically belongs in that provision — as I have stated under the law as it was passed, the department held that we could not issue a patent upon the application of a party in interest. This enlarges that and provides that it may be simply per- missive; they may issue a patent upon the application of the party in interest, leaving the department just the same rights that it would have if the allottee came himself and asked for the patent. Senator Curtis. If that provision contemplates what I think it does, I think it is dangerous. Senator Clapp. You would not have thought so if it had been in the first instance, clearly. Senator Curtis. Yes, I think I would, because the Senator will remember — I do not know whether it was in this case or not, but when one of the bills was up before, I insisted that the amendment should be adopted showing that the patent was issued upon the appli- cation of the Indian allottee, and I did it for the reasons I stated just a few moments ago. Senator Clapp. I think the Senator thought then that this was a directory statute. Senator Curtis. And the commissioner will remember that in sev- eral cases where the department has been authorized to issue papers upon application of Indians, that amendments were suggested by me that they should not be issued until after careful investigation by the department. Senator Clapp. Well, that suggestion is in full force even without amendment. You will find a reference to it at the top of the page. Senator Page. Senator, what is the real animus of the department ? You say it is hostile. Is it hostile because of the reasons given, or the reasons withheld? Senator Clapp. The Department of Justice, through its representa- tive here, claims that this provision for maldng a roll will not be of any aid to the Department of Justice, but now they are prepared to go on and treat this matter in a free manner and issue patents where there is no question. My answer to them is — and without any politi- cal significance at all — they may not be here forever. We all run the gauntlet of possible death, and that the law should be automatic, so that if other people who are hostile came into office they can not hold this matter up. It has been pending now for years. This legislation did not aifect the suits. Mr. Head and Mr. Morrison are behind you, and you can see that they are men as to whom there is absolutely no question of their being mixed blood, and well developed along busi- ness lines. The idea was to allow the Department of Justice to name a man and let the judge name another man up there and let them sit down and make a roll on these cases where there was no question about their being mixed bloods. Then the judge to approve that roll if he thought he ought to approve it. That would eliminate those cases from this chaos that has developed up there. You have no idea what it is. Hundreds of men have gone froin Iowa and other States up there and bought these lands and are trying to make farms of them. The experience in the West, I think, is that it takes from two to three INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 489 renewals of a mortgage to free the purchaser, so he finally becomes the owner of his farm. These suits, brought indiscriminately, have discredited not only the title of Indian lands, but it has discredited titles generally. It has stagnated the business of that section of the country. Now let the suits go on. Let the court decide the suit; but as to those cases where there is no question about it, so that a judge of the United States district court is willing to sign a decree, let those be relieved from this chaos and confusion as to the question that the men who have bought in those cases were of mixed blood — should still hold in those cases and can go on and get the full value and benefit of their land without the title being embarrassed in this way. That is the purpose of this proposition, and I think the purpose is a fair one. Senator Curtis. What would the Senator say to this amendment : Provided, That no patent shall be issued to persons interested other than the allottee until after the department has given said application careful considera- tion and determined that said applicant has such a right and interest as to Justify the issuance of such a patent. Senator Clapp. I can not consent to that for this reason — I could consent to part of it. A part of that statement would seem to im- pinge upon the title which the law vests through a trust patent, and it would simply add confusion to confusion. Senator Curtis. I would not want to do that, of course. Senator Clapp. I know you would not want to do that. This is simply permissive. The department — certainly with the sugges- tion — I hardly think it would need the suggestion of the committee — can withhold every patent as it has been doing for years, with but few exceptions. I do not know how many have been issued, but a very few have been issued. Senator Curtis. In what way would that confuse it ? Senator Clapp. It would be claimed right away by parties that this impinged upon the original title ; that it left the department to say whether the allottee was entitled to the removal of his restric- tions or not. Senator Curtis. I do not think. Senator, that it justifies such a construction. Senator Clapp. It would not with you or me; but you have no idea of the constant effort that is being made to discredit titles up there. You have no idea of Mie hundreds of men who have sold their all and gone into that section and bought farms, and what embarrassments they encounter to-day in renewing their mortgages in order to finally dispose of their mortgages. No ; I would rather not have anything. I have told you gentlemen what the exact situation is there. All I ask is that the original law in this respect be amended so that the department may, when it sees fit, issue a patent to the beneficiary without requiring the application of the allottee himself. I think you will agree with me, if you knew the embarrassments that have occurred. I have no patience with men who have got lands for less than their value. I am not discussing that question at all. Senator Curtis. Why not add after the words "interested par- ties " — ^how does it read there? Senator Clapp. "Any person interested in such an allotment." 490 INDIAX APPROPBIATIOX BILL. Senator Cuetis. Before the word " to," or ri^ht before the words " person interested," add the words " after careful consideration to. ' Senator Clapp. I can not consent to that for this reason : I know there are men up there who are going to lose their farms. They are not land grabbers ; they are not swindlers. They have gone in there and bought the lands to make farms. Some technical lawyer would say right off, " That is an impingement upon the fee title that the original law sought to pass." Senator Curtis. But Senator, under that amendment you would allow patents to be issued in cases such as I have described a few minutes ago, where parties had been absolutely robbed, and signed patents or deeds when they thought they were signing some other paper, or where their names had been forged. Senator Clapp. Only where the Secretary of the Interior had made up his mind that he would issue them. Senator Curtis. But, as I said a minute ago, when the application was filed, when there was no protest on the part of the Indian, the chances are the patent would be issued. Senator Clapp. I do not think so. I think the Interior Depart- ment and the Indian Office are alert in these matters, and certainly after this discussion there can be no question about that. Senator Curtis. I am very anxious to help your people, and I think they deserve to be helped, in straightening out the situation without their being forced to go to law. I think this committee owes it to those people to do everj^thing possible to help them get their titles perfected, but I am not in ifavor of supporting any measure here which will give certain people an additional chance to get deeds to Indian lands by forgery or fraud. I can not support anything of that kind. Senator Clapp. This gives them no additional chance except through the laches of the Indian Office. If this directed them to issue, it would be a different question. But it says they may be issued to the interested party. The Indian Office can take all the time it desires and invoke all the safeguards and all the precautions that it sees fit, but to put something in here that would enable some technical attorney to defeat the effort of a farmer, whose farm is under mortgage, to rencAV his mortgage, I would rather not embar- I'ass the legislation by any reference to it at all. Senator Curtis. Why not add " under rules and regulations pre- scribed by the Secretary " ? Then they woulfl laiow we expected them to adopt some rules that they had to comply with. What I want is to be sure that nobody is going to lose land that they have not honestly sold. '■ Senator Clapp. I want the same thing. This leaves it with the Secretary of the Interior. He is not obliged to ever issue a patent under this proposition. Senator Curtis. That is true, but, Senator, pardon me for being to technic;i] in this matter, if' you want to call it so, but there are cases that I knoAv of where the parties have had patents issued to them, and liad deeds issued by the department, or approved by the department. Avith absolutely nothing but one letter on file — no investi- gation. I know of one case, for instance, in a suit bj^ an old Indian woman in our county, where the department hfid issued her a deed INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 491 at the request of a lawyer who wrote in the interest of the party who wanted to rob her of her land, and her lands have been deeded away and she has nothing left, and she did not know until I exam- ined the record that she had ever asked for a deed. Senator Clapp. I know there have been such cases, but the more those things have unfolded the more the department has become cau- tious. There are always, of course, such opportunities. An agent may be induced to recommend a patent when he ought not to recom- mend it. That is why we took the abstract roll of mixed bloods rather than to leave it Senator Johnson. Would you object to an amendment like this, using the words, " unless actual fraud had been found to exist? " Senator Clapp. Of course, I will object to anything that will en- able a technical lawer, absolutely without foundation, to insist that there has been an effort made to impinge upon the free title by the operation of law as applicable to the trust patent. Senator Johnson. But would that not be up to the department to determine that ? Senator Clapp. No; here for instance, is a farmer who has a mortgage — and there are lots of them. They have to renew those mortgages. They submit it to the attorney. Of course, he is going to be extra careful anyway, but he finds something here that he thinks impinges upon that original title. Why, no, it is infinitely better to leave that provision out of the amendment entirely. Senator Lane. Mr. Chairman, it is about noon, and I suggest that we allow this proposition to lie over for the day. Senator Curtis. If we adjourn, I suggest that we adjourn until 10 o'clock to-morrow morning instead of 10.30. The Chairman. Do you make that in the form of a motion. Sena- tor? Senator Curtis. Yes. (The motion was agreed to, and at 12 o'clock and 10 minutes p. m., the committee adjourned to meet at 10 o'clock a. m. to-morrow, Wed- nesday, March 1, 1916.) INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. WEDNESDAY, MABCH 1, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on ISiDiAN-^AiTi^jEB, Washington, B. G. . The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjourmnent, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Owen, Johnson, Clapp, Page, Gronna and Curtis. MINNESOTA ^PIPESTONE INDIAN SCHOOL. Senator Clapp. I desire to take up the matter of the Pipestone Indian School. At that school the area is, I think, 640 acres and there is a road nmning from the schoolhouse down to the south boundary and con- nected with the public road leading into the town. This road from the school reservation boundary up to the schoolhouses is simply impassable if it is at all wet. I want $l,^jpO to gravel that road with. I can not see that there should be any objection to it. Senator Page. Has that been submitted to the department ? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Page. And do they agree? Senator Clapp. Why, yes. Mr. Meritt wrote me a letter upon the subject, which I have here, and I was also talking with him on the subject yesterday. The item under consideration is as follows : "To blast out and deepen the ditch and creek on said reservation, $2,000; to gravel and improve the road leading from the school buildings to the south line of the reservation, $1,000 ; in all, $64,675" was added to the bill, line 8, page 30, by the following vote : Yeas, Lane, Johnson, Clapp, Gronna, and Ashurst ; nays. Page and Curtis. Senator Page. We have increased the appropriation $10,000 already. Senator? Senator Clapp. Yes. You have been on this committee a good while, Senator Page, and you have seen a great many increases for schools. I think you will bear me out in the statement that I have a^ed for very few indeed. 493 494 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. Senator Page. If it is for school purposeSj I have not the slightest objection. If it is to help the State of Minnesota and for benefit of the white men, then I want information. Senator Clapp. It is for the benefit of the school, so that those people can go down to the town and back. The station is in the town. The Chairman. You will supply the item, will you ? Senator Clapp. Yes. It is for $1,000. The Chairman. .Was that in the bill last year? . . Senator Glapp. No. Senator Page. It is an appropriation of $1,000 for the school.- Let us agree to that. It is a small amount. (The item was agreed to.) Senator Clapp. I will siay with respect to that same school that the old Pipestone Creek runs through the school reservation. It dams up the land back of there. We made an appropriation some years ago of $1,50.0 to blast out the mouth of this creek where it empties over the rock down into the larger stream. We used that money but we did not blast the mouth deep enough and that creek, running through the school reservation, on account of its mouth not being opened up, it floods- and backs up the water to quite a dis- tance. .. I think it is no more than fair inasmuch as the mouth of the creek is on the reservation, that we should remove that obstruction. I went out there last fall and went all over this matter. I went by the road — that is, I could not go over the road I have spoken of — but had to go 4 miles around. I desire $2,000 to blast out the mouth of that striea:m. Senator Page. In what way does that benefit the school ? Senator Clapp. Well, it does not technically nor directly benefit the school. We have that property there; we own and control the mouth of that creek. The mouth of that creek is so high and it lis so rocky that it will not wash out and has to be blasted out where it throws the water back and there is no way of getting it through there except through our property, and when I say "our property" I mean the United States property. This is a just claim, and I think the Government should remove the obstruction at the mouth of that creek. Senator Page. Who is asking for it ? Senator Clapp. I am asking for it. Senator Page. Does the department not ask for it nor suggest it? Senator Clapp. I have a letter there that was written me last sum- mer by the department, when I called its attention to this matter, stating that this could be covered by the general appropriation, but in talking with Mr. Meritt yesterday I find they can not do it, and at his suggestion I am offering this item. The correspondence is, as follows : EtePABTMENT OF THE InTBEIOR, Office of Indian Affaies, WasMngton, Septemb,er Zl., 1915. Hon. Moses E. Clapp, St. Pauy Minn. Mt Deab Senator: In resjionse to your letter of September 17, regarding matters at the Pipestone School, you are advised that the estimate for repairs and Improvements of that school has been increased so as to enable us to take care of the Items referred to by you. INDIAX APPSOPKUTION BILL. 495 If this is not entirely satisfactory tlie items can be made specific wlien the bill reaches the Senate, and the office will be glad to cooperate with you in regard thereto. With kindest personal regards, I am, Sincerely, yours, E. B. Meritt, Assistant Commissioner. Yesterday I spoke to Mr. Meritt about it, and he said he did not believe that they could reach it with the other appropriation, and suggested that I ask for these two specific items. i Senator Page. Personally I think I must object to this, because the Senator says it does not affect beneficially the Indian school, and it is not properly an item that should go into the Indian appropria- tion bill. Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have a vote upon it. The Chairman. The question is on the motion of the Senator from Minnesota. The question being taken upon the amendment proposed by Sen- ator Clapp, there were ayes 2, noes 2, as follows: Ayes, Senators Ashurst and Clapp; noes, Senators Curtis and Page. Senator Clapp. I shall move to reconsider, the vote being a tie. Senator Page. It failed to carry. The Chairman. The vote is a tie. ■ Senator Clapp. Now, Senator Page, I can not see the force of your objection. Here is a piece of property owned by the United States which is damaging the property of others there. The people can not get on there of their own motion; they would be put off of that land as trespassers if they touched a piece of rock there as big as your fist. It does seem to me that it is a just and fair claim. Senator Page. If the department asks for it and they say it is needed for the benefit of the school, or for the benefit of the Indians, I shall not oppose it. Senator Clapp. Senator Page, I have told you that nobody can say it is for the benefit of the school. They have the creek bridge ; they do not ford it ; they can go over it, and here we own this prop- erty Senator Page. So far as you have shown yet there is no injury to Government property by its being there. Senator Clapp. Not the Government property, but here the Gov- ernment stays there with a piece of property, controlling the mouth of the creek that is flooding the land back of it, and the people can not go on there and blast this out. They should not be allowed to anyway. The Government should control that matter, and in case we can not get the money to blast that mouth out and have it done by the Government these people will have to suffer. Senator Page. If you want the authority of the Government to permit somebody who is interested and who is benefited to go on and do that work, I have not the slightest objection. Senator Clapp. The department would have; that is the trouble. WHITE EARTH (MINNESOTA) PATENTS TO LANDS. Senator Clapp. The next item is the one which we were consid- ering when we adjourned yesterday, the White Earth enrollment. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that? 496 INDIAX APPBOPBlATiON BILL. Senator Page. I shall have to object to that, Mr. Chairman. Senator Clapp. Just one moment. Yesterday, after the commit- tee adjout-ned, the representative of the Department of Justice stated that he could see no reason why the department could not issue patents under the original law to interested parties, and it was sug- gested that he satisfy himself on that, and if he does, of course that will render unnecessary this particular item with respect to the issue of patents. Senator Page. If the Department of Justice and the Interior De- partment say this item ought to pass, I will very gladly make a mo- tion to that effect. Senator Clapp. Senator Page, you forget. These people are not the wards of the Government. The Supreme Court has happened to hold, in -regard to probate proceedings, and the department has happened to hold as to the mixed-blood patents, that they have no authority to issue a patent except on the application of the allottee. His title has gone from the Government. They are no longer con- trolled by the Government. They have nothing to say about it. Senator Page. Let me make a brief statement with regard to this. Outside of the department the claim is made to me that this is not — well, I shall not use the extreme language used to me, but that it is not a proper bill. Senator Clapp. Made by people who do not know these facts ? Senator Page. Now, what they tell me, plus what the department says, impels me to say that before I approve of any positive legisla- tion I want to be shown. Senator Curtis. Senator Clapp, yesterday after I suggested the amendment and made the statement as to the danger that would arise or might result from the enactment of this law, a gentleman stopped me here at the end of the table and said that his father had died and that two years afterwards a patent had been asked for in his name, and that if it had not been for the fact that the department knew of his prominence and remembered his death the patent would have been issued in this very case. Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Curtis. It was a fraudulent proposition. He had not deeded the property. Senator Clapp. But this does not put it beyond the power of the Department to withhold any payment that is asked for. Senator Curtis. I know it does not, but the Department does not always inquire as it should. Senator Clapp. I think it will from now on. Senator Curtis. I told you yesterday of a case that I knew of, in which I was employed as attorney during the last two years when I was out of the Senate, referring to a piece of property owned by an old woman who had signed a paper which she supposed was an accommodation to her daughter, and that had been sent to Washing- ton and had been approved at the request of a lawyer, and she did not Iniow until I told her that she had executed a deed to her daughter, and there was the property and the deed approved by the Department, and the old woman has lost her property. Senator Clapp. But here the title has passed ; the trust patent has become a fee patent by operation of law. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 497 Senator Cuktis. That is true. Senator Clapp. You simply embarrass the owner in getting the full value of his property by leaving it so it can be said his title is clouded. We have done the Indian great harm in clouding his title. When we grant him the right we turn around and cloud his title, and the man who buys says, "you have no title; I will give you so much." We are just simply helping them to get the property for that much less all the time. But I think the Department is going to hold now Senator Page. I think it may, Senator, and will give you relief there. But with the Department objecting, and the protests that come to me from outside who think they know, I do not feel that I ought to vote for positive legislation such as you request. Shall we pass over on this matter until you receive some additional informa- tion? Senator Clapp. I expect Mr. Meritt will be here in a few minutes. I have no objection to suspending until he arrives. COMPENSATION TO CHARLES J. KAPPLEE, FOR COMPILATION OF INDIAN LAWS AND TREATIES. Senator Clapp. I desire to submit a matter in which I have no interest in any way except to see that justice is done. Some years ago Congress passed a resolution to have the Indian laws and treaties codified and printed — the treaties together and the laws together. Mr. Kappler made two volumes of that and that was paid for. He subsequently brought the work down to 1911, I think, and has never been paid for that work. In my opinion we should allow him whatever is fair for that work. In this connection I submit the bill and memorandum bearing upon this subject : (The papers referred to are here printed in full, as follows :) To pay the persons who compiled, annotated, and indexed volume three of Indian Laws and Treaties, and so forth, under Senate resolutions of March third, nineteen hundred and eleven, and August fourteenth, nineteen hundred and twelve, $3,000, to be immediately available, and to be paid upon vouchers signed by the chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate. MEMOEANDUM. [In re amendment offered by Senator Clapp appropriating $3,000 to pay the persons compiling Volume 3 of Indian Laws and Treaties. (Senate Document T19, Sixty-second Congress, second session.)] By resolution of the Senate adopted March 3, 1911, the Committee on Indian Affairs was authorized to have prepared a compilation of Indian laws, treaties, Executive orders, etc., subsequent to July 1, 1902. The period to that time being covered by the two volumes entitled " Indian laws, treaties, Executive orders, proclamations, etc.," published in 1902. ^ , ^ ^ ^^ „ . \v • ■ ^u On August 14, 1912, a resolution was adapted by the Senate authorizing the printing of the document authorized under the resolution of March 3, 1911. Under the authority of these two resolutions the then chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Senator Clapp, ordered prepared a complete and carefully annotated document of about 800 pages conforming in size to the first two volumes embracing all Indian laws, treaties. Executive orders, and proclama- tions from July 1, 1902, to December 1, 1913. »This document contains marginal annotations and foot notes covering as to each statute every case in which these laws are cited or construed by the Supreme Court of the United States, the 31362—16 32 498 IXDIAN APPEOPETATION BILL. Federal courts, the Court of Claims, as well as the opinions of the Attorney General, the Secretary of the Interior, and important decisions of State courts. It also contains various old treaties and agreements which were not otherwise available in printed form and which could not be obtained at the time of the preparation of the former compilation. Furthermore, permission was obtained from Oyc to print in the appendix its subject on " Indians and laws applicable to Indians," which is mo.st important from a reference standpoint. The suggestions submitted by the Secretary of the Interior, Commissioner of the General Land Office, Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Senators, Representatives, and others to make the third volume more valuable than the first two were followed as far as possible, and it may be added that on account of the annotations from court decisions and foot notes the volume entailed more labor and will be more useful than the other volumes. A very full and complete index accompanies the volume. To secure the proper preparation of this volume the work was performed by Charles J. Kappler, who compiled the first two volumes ; Lee F. Warner, the clerk of the Committee on Indian Affairs at the time the resolutions were passed; Vf. E. Richardson who was associated in the preparation of the first two volumes ; and R. J. McNeil, the then assistant clerk of the Indian committee. The work of preparing this third volume was commenced over two years ago, and has been performed in a very careful manner necessitated by the fact that this volume, as the two proceeding volumes, are used by the Congress, the departments, as well as the courts and lawyers throughout the country in matters pertaining to the Indians. At least five sets of proofs were minutely read, revised, and cor- rected. * The item making appropriation for the first two volumes inserted In the, Indian appropriation bill was as follows : " To pay the persons who compiled and indexed the two volumes of the treaties, law. Executive orders, and so forth, relating to Indian Affairs, under Senate resolution of May twentieth, nineteen hundred and two, five thousand dollars, of which said sum so much as may be necessary may be expended as additional pay or compensation to any officer or employee of the United States, to be immediately available and to be paid only upon vouchers signed by the chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate." (32 Stat., p. 1000.) The item making appropriation for the Biographical Congressional is as follows : " To enable the Secretary of the Senate to pay upon vouchers approved by the chairman of the Joint Committee on Printing, for preparing a new edition to the Biographical Congressional Directory from the Continental Congress to the Sixty-first Congress, both inclusive, as directed by Senate resolution of March third, nineteen hundred and eleven, $5,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, and said sum or any part thereof, in the discretion of the chair- man of the Joint Committee on Printing may be paid as additional compensa- tion to any employee of the United States and shall continue to be available during the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen." (37 Stat, Part I, p. 479.) RESOLUTION PASSED BY SENATE MABCH 30, 1914. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Navy be requested to prepare and sub- mit to the Senate at its next regular session, or as soon thereafter as practi- cable, a compilation, with complete index, of existing laws relating to the Navy, Navy Department, and Marine Corps, with annotations showing how such laws have been construed and applied by the Navy Department, the Comptroller of the Treasury, the Attorney General, or the courts, the cost of said compila- tion not to exceed $3,000, to be covered by appropriations to be reported by the Committee on Appropriations. It may be added that the House Committee on Indian Affairs passed a resolu- tion requesting the printing of the third volume. This volume has been In considerable demand. Senator Page. I recall that this was before us a year ago, or I guess two years ago Senator Clapp. It was before us last year. Senator Page. And the qiitestion was raised then, as I remember, why should we by our acts here permit men to go on and do work without any suggestion from the department, or any suggestion from INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 499 anybody unless it is a personal suggestion from you or me, and establish a precedent for claims upon the Treasury when we ought to have some initiative in some responsible person like the Commis- sioner of Indian Affairs? Senator Clapp. It is a matter that had no relation whatever to the Indian Office. It was a question for Congress to determine, whether it wanted the Indian laws and Indian treaties collected and printed together. Senator Page. But, as I remember it. Congress never asked Mr. Kappler or anj'body else to prepare this compilation of laws. Senator Clapp. Most certainly the first two volumes were author- ized under a resolution by this committee. Senator Page. I am talking about the two volumes for which you ask pay. Senator Clapp. Yes; now as to the third volume, the committee did not pass any resolution. In the interim these new laws had been passed, and there were a great number of laws that had not been republished sufficiently to make a volume, and under the original resolution I never supposed there was any question about it — while I suppose I am responsible for his having gone on with that work. I was simply, as I supposed, carrying out the wishes of the committee. But the first two volumes were authorized. Now I have said all I am going to say about the matter. It is a just and fair claim, but if it is desired not to pay him anything, very well. Senator Lane. How much is it. Senator? Senator Clapp. There is no specific amount. Senator Page. It is left uncertain. Senator Lane. But about what? Senator Clapp. He thinks he ought to have $3,000. Senator Lane. Is it a digest. The Chairman. I desire to say that I am in sympathy with your view. I think when we take a man's goods, we ought to pay him for them — I do not know whether it is $1,000 or $2,000. There is net a day that members of Congress and this committee do not use this book. If we take a man's goods or work we ought to pay for it. Senator Lane. Were there many of these volumes published ? Senator Clapp. Yes, sir; and there is hardly a volume left, the demand has been so great. . . Senator Ctjetis- The first two volumes were printed and this is the third? Senator Lane. How large an edition was there? Senator Curtis. I do not know how many volumes were put out. Senator Clapp. I know that the supply is exhausted. Senator Page. Perhaps you can relieve my mind of all embarrass- ment. Thishasbeenpublished, but under what auspices? Of course somebody has authorized the publication of these compilations? Senator Lane. In 1911 there was a resolution providing for this matter "That the Committee on Indian Affairs Senator Clapp. Following the resolution under which the first two volumes were printed ; when there came an amount of legislation that would make a decent volume, I suggested to him that he com- ^^The Chairman. There were 3,000 copies of the first two volumes. 500 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. And you say the third volume has been published ? The Chairman. Yes, sir. Senator Page. By what authority? The Chairman. Senator Lane started to read it but he was inter- rupted. Senator Lane. I love to be interrupted. I will read the resolution. [In the United States Senate, Marcli 3, 1911.] Resolved that the Committee on Indian Affairs is hereby authorized to have prepared for the use of the Senate, a compilation of the laws, agreements, ex- ecutive orders, et cetera, relating to Indian affairs passed and ijroclaimed since December one, one thousand nine hundred and two. That is signed by Charles G. Bennett, Secretary. Then there is * this resolution : Resolved, that the illustrations accompanying the proclamations of the President and included in the manuscript of Senate Document Number seven hundred and nineteen. Sixty-second Congress, "laws, agreements, executive orders, proclamations, et cetera, relating to Indian affairs," be printed there- with, and that five hundred additional copies of said document be printed for sale by the Superintendent of Documents of the Government Printing Office. ■Tames M. Bakek, Secretary. Senator Page. Is that the resolution under which this volume was printed ? The Chairman. The first resolution the Senator read is. Senator Page. The first resolution the Senator read is 1911 and refers to what has been previously done ? The Chairman. No. Senator Curtis. It refers to the printing of this new one. Senator Page. This is the first intimation that I have had that we had authorized its publication. If we have used it, and used it under proper authority, I have nothing more to say. Senator Clapp. I can not allow that statement to go unchallenged. I have said a dozen times at this table what the authority was under which those books were printed. Senator Gronna. May I say a word. I was opposed to this ap- propriation but I have looked into it very carefully, and I am sure that the work was authorized by the committee. The party who did this work — I have never met him — I think his name is Kappler The Chairman. Yes, sir. Senator Gronna. I do not remember ever having met him, but that makes no difference — he has done the work and I believe it is a contract ; I believe it is a debt that we owe this man and m- e ought to pay it, and I shall vote for it. Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, I want to interpolate here, into what the Senator has said, this fact, which I think is confessed, and that is, that there was no contract made with this man to prepare this work. Senator Clapp said when I asked him for the authority, "I know of no authority except that I personally said to him he had better pre- pare it." Senator Cr.APP. That is with respect to the third volume. Senator Page. This volume that we are talking about — ^it never was authorized, but I am willing to go further and say that if we have utilized it and made use of it under the resolution as appears here, I withdraw all my objections. The Chairman. It was stated to the committee that this book was carefully prepared and was of value, and the committee recommended INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 501 $2,000 and the item was agreed to in the Senate, but went out in conference, the conferees being unable to agree. Senator Gronn A. That is what I understood. There was some authorization for it — not that I am opposing what the Senator from Vermont saj^s, but there was some authorization for it. Senator Lane. Senator Gronna, did you draw a set of them? Senator Gronna. No. Senator Cttrtis. They are probably to your credit. The Chairman. The first publication, the one published under authority of 1902, was exhausted probably before any of you came to the Senate. The third volume is available for members. Is there any objection to the item? Senator Page. I withdraw any objection if we have used it, and I see that we have. The item was agreed to at $2,000, the same as last year. PIPESTONE INDIAN SCHOOL (rESUMEd). Senator Clapp. Mr. Meritt, before you came — I did not suppose there would be any objection to the matter — I took up the item of $2,000 for blasting out the mouth of the creek at the Pipestone Indian School. Have you been there ? Mr. Meritt. iSTo, sir. Senator Clapp. I referred to it in a letter to you last summer and suggested that an estimate be made, and you wrote me that you thought it would probably be covered by the general repairs, and if not, a specific bill could be put in, and yesterday you and I were talking about it and you thought it would be better for me to sepa- rate the item. I made that statement before you came in. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Clapp. I now desire that you make any statement you care about it. I ^Yant to say to the Senators who were not in when the matter was up this morning that this particular item does not amount to any benefit to the Indian school itself. The pupils cross this creek in order to get to the railroad down at Pipestone at the mouth of this creek. Some years ago we got an appropriation for $1,500 to blast it out^was that not the amount, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. I think that was the amount. Senator Clapp. That was used but it was not blasted deep enough to prevent the. floods from backing on the property of other people for long distances. It is one of those draws that finally finds its out- let over the falls of Pipestone. .The only claim for this appropriation is that the Government owns this property. At the mouth of the creek the falls are upon the Government property, and that being the case it seems to me that it is a fair item for the Government to remove the obstruction. The $1 500 which we appropriated proved to be wholly inadequate, and I have asked this morning for the item of $2,000 for use in deepen- ing the mouth of the creek. . ^ . -d- ^ , Senator Gronna. Is the school located at Pipestone ( Senator Clapp. Yes, sir. It is the old Pipestone quarry there. Senator Page. Senator Gronna, I asked Senator Clapp if this ap- propriation would in any way benefit the reservation or the school and he said "no." "Will it benefit the Indians?" "No." It will 502 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. benefit, as I understand it, some men up on the stream who own farms and who would like to have the water drawn off. Now I do not see any reason why we should appropriate any money simply because this happens to be on the Indian school lands, to benefit private persons who happen to have lands that have been flooded lor a great many years perpetually by this stream. Senator Clapp. The only claim is that the obstruction is on the Government land, and the Government, in my judgment, ought to remove the obstruction. Senator Geonna. And that it might do an injury to those who live along the stream? Senator Clapp. It is doing an injury now in flooding the country • back of it. Senator Page. It does not flood the country any more than it has perpetually flooded it, as I understand. Senator Clapp. Yes ; it is flooding more. If you were in the West you would find that as a country settled up, a great many lakes dis- appear, and a great deal of surface water that was once permanent surface, disappears. The plowing up of the land and the cultiva- tion of the land develops a rapidity of accumulation, and obstruc- tions than 20 years ago were practically of little moment are to-day serious obstructions. Senator Page. I think the State of Minnesota, or the local authori- ties, should take care of this matter. If it is of no benefit to the Government, or of no benefit to the Indians, or to that school, I object to have the Federal Government taxed to pay for it. Senator Clapp. I do not know of any Indian bill that has passed — and I am heartily in accord with it on that point — where we did not appropriate money in the relation of Indian reservations to adjoining settlements where the whites get some benefit of it. Now the whites do not get any afiirmative benefit of it here. Senator Page. Do they not in this case get all the benefit of it? Senator Clapp. Yes. In one sense they do not get a benefit. They get a relief from a burden. If this were asked to build a bridge or a highway off the reservation, I would not be in sympathy with it. That would be an affirmative benefit to the wEite people. This you - can not say is a benefit — that is, it benefits them in the end but it is not one of those affirmative benefits. It is relieving them from a burden that rests upon their land because of the obstruction on the reservation. Senator Page. But why shoiild the Government pay for the reliev- ing of that burden when there is no benefit accruing to the Indians or to the Indian land? Senator Clapp. Because the burden is imposed by reason of the condition solely on the Government land. Senator Page. Nature has interposed a burden. We have already given $1,500 toward reducing that burden. There is no doubt that there are hundreds, and we may say, hundreds of thousands of like situations in this country where the lands are fiooded and we remove the obstructions, but we do not ask the Federal Government to remove them. Senator Clapp. That depends upon whether the obstruction is on Federal property or not. INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 503 Senator Page. Not at all. If you want authority to allow the State of Minnesota or the local authorities to go on the land and remove that burden, I have no objection, of course, and I do not think anybody could object ; but why should we pay for a purely local benefit ? Senator Clapp. I can only repeat again because the obstruction is on Federal property. Senator Page. That does not seem to me to be any argument at all. We can allow them to go on and' remove it, the same as if it was not on Federal property. Senator Gronna. Could the State go on the property and remove the obstruction without legislation? Senator Page. I am willing to give any legislation that is desired for that purpose. I shall not object to that, and I do not suppose anybody would. Senator Clapp. Well, I have asked for it. Senator Gronna. What you object to. Senator Page, is that it takes the money out of the Indian funds ? Senator Clapp. It does not take it out of the Indian funds. Senator Page. No; it asks the Federal Government to do some- thing that confessedly helps no one except a farmer who lives back one, two, three, or five miles — wherever it may flow back to, to get a part of this water, which now stands in his meadow out of the way. Senator Gronna. But we are doing that every day. We are doing it along the Mississippi River, taking care of those overflowed lands. The Federal Government makes an appropriation of $1,000,000 every year to help the people with respect to matters of which they have no control. Senator Page. But that is navigable water. That is another propo- sition. Senator Clapp. The water overflows the levees. It is not a ques- tion of navigation. We spend millions of dollars to protect those low lands from overflow. It is not a matter of navigation at all. Senator Page. I will go bail that Vermont will never come here and ask you to remove any obstruction in that State. Senator Clapp. I do not know of any such obstructions in Ver- mont. This happens to be on Indian school land. Senator Page. This is a gratuity from the Federal Treasury. However, I have devoted more time to this matter than I probably should. I simply want to vote against it. The Chairman. The question is on the amendment of the Senator from Minnesota (Mr. Clapp). The question being taken by yeas and noes resulted — yeas 5, noes 2, as follows: Yeas: Senators Lane, Johnson, Clapp, Gronna, and Ashurst; noes : Senators Page and Curtis. The amendment was agreed to. Senator Page. I suppose it is not necessary for me to reserve any rights to object to this item on the floor of the Senate. The Chairman. The . action of the committee does not bind a Senator in that respect. 504 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. NEXT LAKE SCHOOL ITEM. Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, day before yesterday we had up the Nett Lake school item, and it was put on the bill. Yesterday Mr. Meritt thought it ought to be reconsidered. Mr. Meritt and I have an understanding, and it is agreeable to him to let the item remain on the bill with the understanding that when the bill comes to its passage, if Mr. Meritt does not approve the description— the only question I will say is a question of description Senator Page. Is that a special bill or is it an amendment that is pending here ? Senator Clapp. It is on the bill already, but I agreed to take it off if Mr. Meritt wanted it to be eliminated. Senator Page. We all agreed to that ? Senator Clapp. Yes; we all agreed to that. There is a question as to the description, and if Mr. Meritt is not satisfied with the description when we come to the passage of the bill, I, myself, will move to strike it from the bill. That is correct, Mr. Meritt, is it not? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; it may be necessary to change the descrip- tion because our superintendent advises that there are some Govern- ment buildings on the land as now described, and we would like to have the land described so that it would not cover any Government buildings. Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, that disposes of everything except the forest provision for Red Lake. PINE TIMBER ON RED LAKE RESERVATION. Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, last year we inserted a provision in the bill covering the pine timber on the Red Lake Reservation The Chairman. This item is calendar No. 34. Senator Clapp. Yes; and then Senator Nelson introduced a bill for that purpose, and the oifice has modified the bill. I understand that the bill from the department has not come to the committee, and at Mr. Meritt's suggestion, if it is agreeable, we ' will pass this over and take up other matters. Senator Curtis. That is Senator Nelson's amendment? Senator Clapp. Yes ; if we do not get the bill up we will come to some understanding about it. There are some other matters that Mr. Meritt says he desires to take up. Mr. Meritt. There are several items — we have about eight items that I would like to take up that were not included in the House bill but which were estimated for by the department. KORTH DAKOTA CARE OF INSANE INDIANS. Senator Geonna. Will you pardon me if I ask to take up a matter at this time for consideration by the committee, as I am compelled to go to another committee? Mr. Mekitt. Certainly, Senator. Senator Geonna. I desire to take up Calendar No. 111. (The amendment referred to by Senator Gronna is as follows:) To enable the Secretary of the Interior to reimburse Benson County, North Dakota, for moneys actually paid to the State of North Dakota for care and INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 505 maintenance of insane Indians at the State insane asylum, as follows : Joseph i^^S^^:.^ °''-^' ^^^'^ ^- Pejihutaskana, $410; Alfred Littlewind, $630; in all, $1,497.44: Provided further, That the Secretary of the interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to make suitable arrangement for the care and maintenance of said insane Indians from and after December thirtv-first lUneteen hundred and fifteen. Senator Gronna. I do not know whether this matter has been referred to you or not, Mr. Meritt, but clearly the State ought not to pay for the care and keeping of insane Indians. We have an insane asylum, which is kept up by the State, but there is no pro- vision that I know of to take care of insane Indians. I understand that the State up to this time has taken care of them. Senator Curtis. The Government has an asylum for Indians, to which these Indians could be removed, if we wanted to take them from there. Senator Gronna. Where is that located, if I may ask? Mr. Meritt. It is at Canton, S. Dak. Senator Page. I can see no real wrong in your proposition. Sena- tor Gronna, but I always like to inquire what door it opens in the way of precedent for future drafts upon the Treasury. I wish you would tell me what the common custom is in getting along with this condition. Senator Gronna. The common custom ? Senator Page. Yes, sir. Probably every State in the Union that has Indians has insane Indians, and they are provided for in some way. Now, in what position does your State stand which is not substantially like the position occupied by every other State ? Senator Gronna. It would be hardly fair to say that every State has Indians. Senator Page. No; I say every State that has Indians has insane Indians. Senator Gronna. I presume that every State has an asylum to take of its unfortunate citizens. We have one, but it is not an asylum for the purpose of taking care of the Indians. As everybody knows, there is a great expense attached to the care of State insane asylums, and if the State has taken care of Indians who are wards of the Government, would it not be proper to ask that the State be reimbursed at a reasonable amount, such amount as it has actually cost them to take care of them ? Senator Page. But is that is to be done, why not make a general law to cover all States alike? Senator Gronna. I think the fact is that very few of the States have insane asylums to take care of them. Senator Page. I supposed that every State that had Indians had insane Indians. Senator Curtis. I think. Senator Page, you are mistaken about that. There are very few insane Indians in the United States. Senator Gronna. Yes ; so I understand. Senator Curtis. I think when we provided this asylum there were only known to be about eight. Since that time they have discovered about 60 in the United States, and now those two or three referred to by Senator Gronna — I may be wrong about the number now, but 1 know at the time the question was up we made a pretty thorough investigation, and my recollection is it was only eight or nine. 506 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. Senator Gkonna. I will say, Mr. Chairman, that I do not wish to be understood as opening any matter that will establish a precedent that will be dangerous. The amount is too small to insist upon legislation which will in the future prove to be dangerous legislation. Senator Page. The Senator knows that I am not opposing this particular bill because I think it is wrong. Senator Geonna. I understand that. Senator Page. It is something like the motion we have just had in regard to blasting out the rocks at Pipestone. I want to see where we are going to land. If we are going to blast out every rock in the country at the expense of the Federal Treasury, and if we are going to take every insane Indian by special legislation, an eo nomine^ make ' him a charge upon the Government, I want to know where we are going to land. Senator Geonna. This matter, you understand, is simply reim- bursing the State for what they have already paid out in the care of these unfortunate Indians. Senator Page. Is there anything that applies to these three that does not apply to every other insane Indian? Senator Geonna. I am not able to answer that question. The Chaieman. Perhaps the laws of your State are similar to the laws of my own, Arizona. An insane person is only kept in the insane asylum where he is indigent. If he has an estate the State can recover. Senator Geonna. That is so in my State. Senator Page. And that is so in my State. The Chaieman. If this county did expend this money for the care of the insane Indians, and if they had been persons with estates the county could have recovered the amount, why should not the Govern- ment pay it? Senator Page. I do not say the Government should not. I simply say that you have selected out three Indians in the whole United States and claim that the appropriation should be made for them from the Federal Treasury. Now tell me why we should select these three and not have a general law that would cover all, or else allow each State to take care of its own insane persons. The Chaieman. They happen to be the only cases before us. Senator Cuetis. Mr. Chairman, the figures here show that in the United States there are only 168 insane Indians. Senator Page. Can you tell us how they are cared for ? Senator Ctjetis. Mr. Meritt, how many are there in the insane asylum ? Mr. Meeitt. We have a capacity of about 90 insane Indians in the Canton, S. Dak., insane asylum. The capacity of that institution has been materially increased in the last three years. It is estimated that there are about 168 insane Indians in the United States. Senator Page. How are the others cared for? Mr. JMeeitt. They are cared for in the State institutions ; some of them are not very well cared for. Senator Page. Have you any funds from which you can draw to take care of these insane Indians ? Is there not a general fund upon which you can draw rather than to make a precedent here by select- ing by name insane citizens and making a special provision for them every session ? INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. 507 Mr. Mebitt. We have no funds that enable us to take care of the already incurred expense. The funds at our disposal could not be used for that purpose. There is a general appropriation for reliev- ing distress that we might be able to use for future work. Senator Page. " For the relief and care of destitute Indians not otherwise provided for, and for the prevention of and treatment of tube'rculosis, trachoma, smallpox, and other contagious infectious diseases, including transportation of patients to and from hospitals and sanatoria, $350,000." Why would that not be an appropriate fund from which to pay for indigent Indians ? In other words, are you restrained by this law from taking care of an indigent Indian simply because he is insane ? Mr. Meeitt. No. sir: we are not; but under a decision of the Comptroller we could not pay for. past expenses incurred unless there was a contract covering that expense. Therefore, that ap- propriation would not be available for this particular purpose. Senator Geonna. That is the way I understand it, Mr. Chairman, that the department could not, even if it wanted to, pay a claim of this kind. Senator Lane. What rate do you pay per annum? Senator Geonna. That I do not know. This is actually money that has been paid out by the county. Senator Lane. But it ought to be set forth how long you keep them for that amount. We ought to know what we are paying tor. In the State of Oregon indigent people of all kinds are kept at State expense. There were two Indians in the insane asylum when I was superintendent, and there was no charge made. At that time everybody had free access to the insane asylums who were lawfully declared insane in the State of Oregon. Lately, they have passed a law that those who are able to pay shall pay the actual cost, which is about from $12 to $15 a month. But the indigent people are kept there free of cost. Senator Johnson. Mr. Chairman, I have to attend another meet- ing, and may I at this time request the committee to take up for consideration Senate Bill No. 3904? Senator Geonna. If you will pardon me. Senator Johnson, I would suggest that there is a question that is now pending and which should be disposed of. It can be voted down or agreed to. Senator Johnson. At this particular time, if you will excuse me, I want to request that a subcommittee be appointed to consider this matter. The Chaieman. Is there any objection? There was no objection and the chair appointed as such com- mittee, Senators Johnson, Lane and Clapp. Senator Page. Just one word. I thmk that m the seven years that I have been on this committee, this may or may not be the first of this kind that I have had brought to my notice. I would like to have Mr. Meritt state if in his recollection there has been any bill like this since he has been assistant commissioner. Mr. Meeitt. I do not recall a similar item having been incor- porated in an Indian appropriation bill. -i , . t Senator Page. I do not anticipate that I shall prevail, but i want a vote taken and I want to vote no, not because I do not think it 508 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION ^ILL. is right, but I want to know why we open up a new attack on the Treasury, Senator Gronna. The Chairman. We will call the roll on the amendment pro- posed by the Senator from North Dakota. Before the roll is callfed, let me suggest that we strike out the word "further" on line 6 and simply say "provided". Senator Lane. This takes care of these and also provides' for further expenditure there,* does it not Senator Gronna? Senator Gronna. It authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to take care of them. Senator Lane. That will, just as Senator Page has said, bring all the insane Indians from everywhere. Those in the States of Oregon, Arizona, and California, will have to be paid for if you make an exception as to one State. Senator Curtis. It will bring them from every State. The Chairman. I suggest that you strike out everything after the figures " 44 " in line 6, on page 1. Senator Gronna. I have no objection to that. I do not desire to ask for any legislation that the commissioner thinks might be dangerous. Senator Lane. It will open the door. Senator Gronna. The Lord knows we do not want the insane Indians, or any one's else insane people in North Dakota. We have not very many of them I am glad to say. The Chairman. It will be satisfactory to you to strike out all of line 6 after the figures "44"? Senator Gronna. Yes, if there is a provision in the bill that will permit the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to take care of these un- fortunate Indians, I am perfectly satisfied ; but there ought to be a provision whereby these poor, unfortunate people could be taken care of. Senator Page. Have you reason to believe that the appropriation for indigent Indians, found on page 3 Senator Gronna. I know what you refer to. I do not know. I am willing to strike out everything after the numerals, strike out the colon and insert a period Senator Lane. Wait a moment. This is a debt incurred. You have no statement before you and you do not know what rate you are paying for the care of the insane there? Senator Gronna. No. Senator Lane. You owe it to yourself to find out. The Chairman. The matter has just been proposed this moment. Senator Lane. I know; but that ought to be stated in justice to the committee, and in justice we ought to include other Indians from other States, as a matter of justice to them. Senator Gronna. If the senator from Oregon will bring in his statement as to what he thinks is due to the asylum, I shall be glad to vote for it. Senator Curtis. Senator Gronna, have you a statment there from the State authorities on this subject? Senator Gronna. No ; I have nothing but the bill. Senator Curtis. Did they not send you the papers? Senator Gronna. This is an amendment of my colleague, Sen- ator McCumber. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 509 Senator Curtis. Perhaps he has the data. Senator Geonna. I take it that no board of county commissioners would present a false statement to Congress ; at least I do not know of any commissioners in my State who would do such a thing. I believe that when they say they have paid out such an amount as this, they did actually pay it. Senator Curtis. I think that is a reasonable supposition. Senator Gronna. I have that much confidence in my people. Senator Lane. But we ought, for our information, to have the facts. Those institutions compile tables of cost, and it is a simple proposition. Senator Gronna. I will say this to the committee, if you will let this go in, I will wire the officials of this county and ask them for a statement, a sworn statement, and if they do not furnish it I will ask that it be taken out of the bill. The Chairbian. Will that be satisfactory ? Senator Lane. I think, as Senator Page has suggested, that this is special legislation; that it should apply to all States that have in- curred expense for the care of indigent Indians in the same manner, and that also calls to my attention the fact that we ought to make a provision here for the care of the insane Indians from our own funds, and not be paying these special bills here and there. Senator Page. The word " indigent " would cover insane. Senator Lane. But they have not the asylum room. They can not care for all of them. Senator Page. But under this clause they have the right to pay for insane- Indians if they are indigent. Senator Lane. That ought to be included or else call on the other States to come through with their bills. Senator Clapp. Is it not sufficient that we attempt the guardian- ship of the Indians and not to have the additional guardianship of the States? If they have any such bills let them send them in. Senator Page. There seems to be no guardianship of the Federal Treasury, but there ought to be. Senator Lane. We have never charged indigent people in Oregon, no matter who they were. The Chairman. The question is on the amendment suggested by Senator Gronna. The question being taken by yeas and noes resulted : Yeas, 5 ; noes, 1 ; as follows : Yeas, Senators Lane, Clapp, Gronna, Curtis, and Ashurst; noes, Senator Page. The amendment was agreed to. The Chairman. Senator Gronna, you will supply the information called for. Senator Gronna. Yes, sir. , . „ Senator Lane. Yes; it is on the understanding that the informa- tion will be furnished. .... (The papers referred to by Senator Gronna are here printed m full, as follows:) MiNNEWAUKAN, N. Dak., January 31, 1916. Hon. P. J. McCUMBEK, Washington, D. C. My DE4.B Me. McCumbeb: Will you please look over the enclosed corre- spondence relative to a claim we have against the Indian affairs, if you can en- courage the collection of this. I shall be glad to follow this up in person. 510 INDIAN APPEOPKIATTON BILL. Kindly let me hear from you on this subject ; also, if you please, return papers to me at Hot Springs, Ark., care Majestic Bath House. With best wishes, I am, tj.^„„„„ Cordially, W. E. Paulson. Note.— Enclosed bills are brought up to January 1, 1916. Since the vouchers were passed on. MiNNEWAUKAN, N. Dak., January 22, 1916. Joseph Langer to Benson County, Dr. Address Minnewaukan. May 16, 1913— Paying State for care of Joseph Langer at asylum to Decem- ber 31, 1915, at $15 a month less 1 month and 2 days (during escaped period), $457.44. CEETIFICATB. I do hereby certify that the within bill, claim, account, or demand is just and true ; that the money therein charged was actually paid for the purpose therein stated; that the services therein charged were actually rendered and are of the value therein charged ; that no part of such bill, claim, account or demand, has been paid ; and that the goods therein charged were actually delivered and were of the value charged. W. E. Paulson. County Auditor. MiNNEWAUKAN, N. Dak., January 22, 1916. Mary Josephine Pejihutaskana to Benson County, Dr. Address Minnewaukan. August 15, 1913 — Paving State for care of Mary Josephine Pejihutaskana to December 31, 1915, at $15 a month, $410. CERTIFICATE. I do hereby certify that the within bill, claim, account, or demand is just and true ; that the money therein charged was actually paid for the purpose therein stated ; that the services therein charged were actually rendered and are of the value therein charged ; that no part of such bill, claim, account or demand, has been paid ; and that the goods therein charged were actually delivered and were of the value charged. W. B. Paulson. Auditor, Benson County. MiNNEWAUKAN, N. Dak., January Z2, 1916. Alfred Littlewind to Benson County, Dr. Address Minnewaukan. July 9. 1912 — Paying State for care of Alfred Littlewind at asylum to De- cember 31, 1915, at $15 a month, $630. CEETIFICATB. I do hereby certify that the within bill, claim, account, or demand is just and true ; that the money therein charged was actually paid for the purpose therein stated; that the services therein charged were actually rendered and are of the value therein charged ; that no part of such bill, claim, account or demand, has been paid ; and that the goods therein charged were actually delivered and were of the value charged. W. E. Paulson. County Auditor. INDIAN A.PPEOPKIATION BILL. 511 Department of the Intekioe, United States Indian Service, Fort Totten, N. Dale, October IS, 1915. doxJNTT Auditor, Benson County, Minnetoaukan, N. Dak. Dear Sib: In connection with bills sent me some time ago covering the care at the asylum at Jamestown of Alfred Littlewind, Joseph Langer, and Mary J. Pejihutaskana, will you please send me another copy of these bills. I sub- mitted the bills to the office at Washington, from where they were not returned. I am now Instructed to prepare a claim for this service and submit for con- sideration of the Auditor of the Interior Department and need the itemized accounts in order to prepare this claim. The office states in part " It does not appear that there was an agreement or implied contract on the part of any officer .of the Government that the United States would assume these obligations. Furthermore it appears that the In- dians are citizens, subject to taxation in all respects as other citizens, the United States holding jurisdiction only over the Indians' allotments and prop- erty purchased from the proceeds of sale of these allotments. " It Is therefore the opinion of this office that the accounts are not a legiti- mate charge aaginst the Government. However, if you will have the claim presented in the usual way, on vouchers, properly certified to, with any evidence the county authorities may care to submit tending to show why the United States should assume payment, the matter will be referred to the Auditor for such action as he may see fit to take." If you will send me the items again I will prepare a voucher for your signa- ture and completion, which will be submitted in accordance with the above. Very respectfully, O. M. Ziebach, Superintendent. State of North Dakota, Office of Attorney General; Bismarck, January 27, 1916. Mr. W. E. Paulson, Minnetoaukan, N. Dak. Dear Sir : Pursuant to your oral request for an opinion as to whether or not the county of Benson has a valid claim against the United States for and on account of the expenses incurred to take care of certain insane Indian patients, will say that in my opinion the United States is Jiable to Benson County for the payment of the expenses so incurred and that a proper claim and voucher should be submitted to the proper department of the United States to the end that such claim be paid by the United States. Yours very truly, Henry Linde, Attorney General. State of North Dakota, Board of Control of State Institutions, Bismarck, January 27, 1916. Mr. W. B. Paulson, Auditor, Benson County, Minnewaukan, N. Dak. Dear Sir : Replying to your favor of the 26th instant, in regard to the fees for the care and treatment of Indians, Joseph Langer, Alfred Littlewind, and Mary Josephine Pejihutaskana, all insane, and now confined at the hospital for the insane at Jamestown, N. Dak., we wish to state that it would not be possible to make a state charge of any of these patients for the reason that their resi- dence is fixed, and our statutes make no provision for the care and treatment of such If the facts are as you state, that you are unable to collect any taxes from these people, either real or personal for the reason that they hold their land by trust patent and their personal property is represented to you by the Government agent at Fort Totten to be held by them as wards of the Federal Government and not taxable, then their care and treatment at the State Hos- pital for the Insane, it seems to us, should be borne by the Federal Government 512 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. or their removal be made from the hospital at Jamestown to some Federal insane hospital. This case is a new one to us, but common justice would seem to make these Indians a Federal charge, as the Government has barred you from collecting: the statutory charge required for their keep. Hoping that you will be able in some way to get relief from this dilemma, we are. Yours, very truly, BOAKD or CONTEOL OF STATE INSTITUTIONS. By Eenest G. Wannbb, Secretary. Department op the Intekiok, Office of Indian Affairs, Washington, December 11, 1915. The Auditor foe the Interior Department. Sir: The accompanying account of county of Benson, N. Dak., for care of Joseph Langer, Alfred Littlewind and Mary Pejihutaskana for sundry periods at Jamestown Asylum, has received administrative examination in this office and is transmitted to you for settlement. Total amount claimed, $1,385.50. Subject to correction by verification of extensions and computations, the account is approved for $0,000.00. Except as noted, the items have been authorized as required by Indian Office regulations, and whenever practicable the prices or rates have been verified by comparison with office records, quotations offered, or rates established in accordance with law. Notice should be sent to claimant, Minnewaukan, N. Dak. (Copy for Information of claimant.) Very respectfully, (Signed) C. F. Hauke, Chief Clerk, Acting Commissioner. Treasury Department, Office of Auditor foe Interior Department, Washington, January 5, 1916. Mr. W. E. Paulson, Auditor county of Benson, Minnewaukan, N. Dak. Sir : I have this day certified to the Secretary of the Treasury that there Is nothing due from the United States to the county of Benson, N. Dak., for the care of Joseph Langer, Alfred Littlewind, and Mary Josephine Pejihutaskana, insane Indians, at the Jamestown Asylum for various periods during the years 1913, 1914, and 1915, for which the sum of $1,385.50 is claimed. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs, who disapproves payment, states that these Indians were citizens, subject to taxation in all respects as other citizens, that there was no agreement or contract Imposing any obligation on the Gov- ernment to pay for their care in such hospital, and that the claim is not an authorized charge against the United States. The claim, upon such showing of facts, must be and is disallowed. Sett. No. 47501. The Comptroller of the Treasury is authorized, upon your application there- for addressed to him, to revise this settlement. Respectfully, OscAE A. Price, Auditor. Minnewaukan, N. Dak., October SI, 1915. C. M. Ziebach, Superintendent, Fort Totten, N, Dak. Dear Sir: Yours of October 12 received In due time and contents carefully considered. In compliance with your request, I herewith inclose you copies of bills of Benson county, N. Dak., covering the care of Alfred Littlewind, Joseph Langer^ INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 513 sind Mary J. Pejihutaskana, Indians confined in the North Dakota Hospital for the Insane at Jamestown, N. Dak. I note what you stated in reference to the opinion of the " Office at Wash- ington " as to the status of these Indians and these accounts. We do not claim " that there was an agreement or an implied contract on the part of any officer of the Government that the United States would assume these obliga- tions." The office at Washington further states as follows, " Furthermore, it appears that tlie Indians are citizens subject to taxation in all respects as other citizens, the United States liolding jurisdiction over the Indians' allotments and prop- erty purchased from the sale of these allotments." The Indians are ostensibly citizens and theoretically are subject to taxation as other citizens, but the tjnited States holds jurisdiction over the Indians' allotments and property purchased from the proceeds of these allotments, also over proceeds of the sale of reservation land, not allotments, opened for settle- ment. The result is the Indian never had any real estate and very seldom any personal property which can be reached for taxation. The matter stands in about this manner : The Indian avails himself of all of the rights and privileges of citizenship, claims the protection of our State laws and our State courts the same as any other citizen, and then the United States steps in and claims to hold all of his real estate and personal property in trust, and denies the State to levy any taxes against it to pay any of the burdens attached to citizenship. If the Indian becomes insane the State or county must pay for his care at the asylum without any compensation and the United States will continue to hold his property in trust and it can not be taxed. He is a citizen entitled to all of the rights of citizenship, but he can not own and control any of his prop- erty, therefore it can not be taxed to pay any of the burdens of citizenship. We understand that it is the custom of the United States to provide for old Indians and those who on account of sickness are unable to provide for them- selves, and we think that they ought to assume the burden of caring for insane Indians who have to be confined in the State hospital for the insane in order to atl'ord protection for themselves and other citizens. We think these claims should be allowed and the county be compensated for the care of these Indians in the hospital for the insane. Respectfully, W. E. Paulson, County Auditor. FORT TOTTEN ( NORTH DAK.) WATER SUPPLY. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we would like to suggest an amend- ment on page 32, line 6, after the figures " $4,000 " we would like to have inserted the words "to be immediately available." It is for the purpose of procuring water immediately for the school at Fort Totten. Senator Gronna. Yes, that is very important. (The amendment was agreed to.) cattle infected with dotjrine. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I would like to take up several items which the department would like to have incorporated in the bill before it is finally reported. On page 12 of the bill, page 137 of the House hearings, we would be pleased to have incorporated this item : For reimbursing Indians for live stock which has been heretofore or which may be hereafter destroyed on account of being infected with dourlne or other contagious diseases, and for expenses in connection with the work of eradicat- ing and preventing such diseases, to be expended under such rules and regula- tions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe, $100,000, said amount to be immediately available and to remain available until expended. Senator Lane. That comes under the general item? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. What general item? 31362—16 33 514 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. We Avould like to have that inserted at page 12 or page 13, just before "Arizona and New Mexico." This item is fully justified on page 137 of the House hearings. Senator Lane. Have you much disease among your stock? Mr. Meeitt. We have considerable dourine on the Indian reser- vations, especially in North Dakota and South Dakota, and in the southwest. The Department of Agriculture has quite a large ap- propriation available for this purpose, but that appropriation is not available for our Indian reservations. Senator Geonna. If you will recall. Senator Lane, we appro- priated, I think, two or three hundred thousand dollars last year for the Agricultural Department to take care of this disease. Senator Lane. Yes. Senator Page. This is a gratuity appropriation, I take it? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. I have no objection. (The item was agreed to.) Senator Geonna. It is very important and very much needed. Senator Lane. What attracted my attention was that there was the large sum to be appropriated, and there must be a great deal of sickness among the cattle. Senator Geonna. There have been a great many animals killed. Senator Lane. They have not very many animals, have they? The Chaieman. Senator, I understand that they have had a great deal of hydrophobia among the horses and cattle in Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nevada. Mr. Meeitt. Dourine is the trouble we have principally to con- tend with. Senator Page. I understand the principle upon which you ask for this apfiropriation is that you are preventing the spread of dis- ease which is killing the cattle; am I right about that? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. The Chaieman. The item is agreed to. IEEIGATION system, PAPAGO INDIAN EESEEVATION. Mr. Meeitt. The next item is on page 15 of the bill, page 171 of the House hearings, and reads as follows: For enlarging the irrigation system for the irrigation of Indian lands, for protective works to prevent damage to irrigable lands by floods, and for de- velopment of domestic water supply on the Papago Indian Reservation, in Arizona, in accordance with the plans and specifications submitted by the chief engineer of the Indian Service and approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior, $70,000, to remain available until expended : Providcil. That the cost of said project shall be reimbursed to the United States in accordance with such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. You will find a complete justification for this item beginning on page 171 of the House hearings. Senator Page. What does this reimbursement amount to in this case? Is there property there from which it is certain the Gov- ernment may be reimbursed later ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. They have tribal property ample to reimburse the Government for the money advanced. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 515 Senator Page. And are these irrigation projects solely for the benefit of the Indians? Mr. Meeitt. Solely; no one but the Indians will get any benefit from this. I might further add that unless we get this appropria- tion very soon, the water will be taken up by the white owners and there will be no water from which the Indian lands can be irrigated. Senator Page. What assurance have we that they will not do it now ? You say it is solely for the benefit of the Indians, and still you say the lands will be taken up by the white men unless we make the appropriation at once ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; I did not say the land. I said the water. Senator Page. The water above the land ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The water in that country is somewhat limited. Senator Page. Do the Indians desire this ? Mr. Meritt. They A'ery much desire it. They have petitioned the Government to make this appropriation. Senator Page. And, speaking for Aiizona, Mr. Chairman, do you approve this? The Chaiemax. I would not make any votes by it, but I do not object to it. I think it is right, whether it is popular or not. It is not popular, but it is right. I think it is just and right. Senator Lane. Where is it, on the San Carlos Reservation? The Chaie:man. No; it is on the Papago Reservation. Mr. Meritt. It is on the Papago Reservation near the city of Tucson. I might say that there is a big land company developing that country and utilizing the water. There is a small amount of water in that part of the State, and unless we get this appropria- tion soon, there will be no water to irrigate the lands of the Papago Reservation, and the Indians will have a lot of worthless land on their hands. Senator Cuetis. What property have these Indians? I do not find them either under Arizona or New Mexico ? Mr. Meeitt. They have a reservation near Tucson, and there are 700 of those Indians. They have a reservation of 60,000 acres. Senator Page. I think I can justify my vote when Mr. Meritt tells me this is exclusively for the Indians and the Indians will suffer if beneficial use is not made of this water at once, and when the Senator from Arizona says that he thinks it is proper, although an unpopular measure. The Chairman. That is what I thmk about it. Senator Lane. I do not know anything about it. Mr. Meeitt. This project has been very carefully investigated by the irrigation department of our service, and a full report has here- tofore been submitted to Congress in regard to it. That report is referred to in our justification. , ,, t v ^i, • i j Senator Lane. Will anything happen to the Indians or their land, and are any complications expected to grow out of it, such as in Mon- tana the Flathead or Blackfeet Reservation, where the project will not be worth 10 cents to the Indians unless they have four or five thousand dollars capital to engage in stock raising or agriculture; or is it to be reimbursed by the sale of the lands of the Indians at $4.50 an acre, when the white people claim it will be worth itlOO? Is there anything like that? 516 ' INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the Papagao Indians are very hard workers. They are accustomed to farming and they are also accustomed to irri- gation, and they will have small farms not to exceed 10 acres. Senator Ctjktis. Sixty -nine thousand acres is all they have, all told. Mr. Mjeeitt. And they will utilize all the land that is to be irri- gated by this proposed irrigation project. Senator Lane. And will they be able to use all the water, or will it in some cases go to some one else? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; they will use all of the water themselves. Senator Curtis. It is 10 acres apiece. Senator Lane. It sounds almost too good to be true. Mr. Meritt. It is true, and unless we get this appropriation at this session of Congress the Indians will probably lose their water rights. Senator Page. I move we approve it. Senator Curtis. I second the motion. (The item was agreed to.) construction of roads and bridges, YUMA INDIAN RESERVATION, CAL. Mr. Meritt. The next item is on page 18 of the appropriation bill, and reads as follows: For the improvement and construction of roads and bridges on the Yuma Indian Reservation in California, $10,000, to be immediately available, and to remain available until expended, reimbursable to the United States by the Indians having tribal rights on said reservation and to remain a charge and lien upon the lands and funds belonging to said Indians until paid. The justification for this item may be found on page 201 of the House hearings. I must say that tliey have recently had a rather severe flood on this reservation and the roads are in a deplorable con- dition. The Indians have been allotted small tracts of land and this appropriation is needed immediately so as to give employment to Indians on that reservation, as well as providing roads to their lands which have been allotted to them. It is reimbursable, and is only a small item of $10,000. We will be very glad to have it in the bill. Senator Lane. As to the Papagos, have they any mineral rights on the lands there? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; there is no question of mineral rights on the reservation. Senator Lane. There is no mineral land anywhere? Mr. Meritt. So far as I know there is no question of mineral rights on this reservation. There are of course mining interests in Arizona, but that question is not involved on this reservation. Senator Lane. And is in no way entagled with it ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir ; there are no surplus lands to be disposed of. Senator Lane. These lands belong to the Indians, both surface and beneath the surface, too? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; they own the surface as well as all the mineral within the reservation. That question is not at all involved in the question of irrigating this land. Senator Lane. Then, it would not do any harm to let it go over, would it? Mr. Meritt. But this is a case where the Indians will lose their water rights if it is not done at once. INDIAN APPKOPEIAXION BILL. 517 Senator Lane. They would not lose them within 24 hours, would they ? ' . J^^ Chairman. I do not like to have a Senator, after having been intormed of a certain state of facts, and when the commissioner tells him a certain state of facts to come back after talking with a person for whom I have a great deal of respect but who is absolutely full of misinformation Senator Lane. Now, I do not know anything about it. I have a right to know about it, have I not ? The Chairman. You certainly have that right. Senator Lane. Then I have a right to see whether it is true or not. I said I did not know. I simply asked for 24 hours to look it up. Mr. MERirr. May I make this suggestion, that if my statement is not found to be true, the bureau will withdraw this item from the bill? Senator Lane. I will say, Mr. Meritt, that I do not suppose you had any knowledge of it, but I thought there might be something that you did not know about, and about which this woman might have some knowledge that you did not present, and it is worth while to look into it. Mr. Meritt. We have no objection to having the matter fully in- vestigated. The Chairman. Have you another item, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Was the item for the $10,000 on the Yuma Eeserva- tion adopted? The Chairman. Yes; that is agreed to. Senator Lane. I do not know about that either. What is it ? Mr. Meritt. It is for an improvement ■ Senator Page. It is to appropriate $10,000, reimbursable from the people who have taken lands adjacent to the river. Senator Lane. And is it all right? Mr. Meritt. The reservation has recently been flooded, and it is necessary to give the Indians employment and money to provide roads for them. MISSISSIPPI SCHOOL EACILITIES. Mr. Meritt. The next item is on page 35 of the bill, and the justi- fication is to be found on page 235 of the House hearings. The item is as follows : To enable the Secretary of the Interior to investigate the condition of the Indians living in Mississippi and report to Congress on the first Monday of next December as to their need for additional land and school facilities, $1,000, to be immediately available. The Chairman: Is that the Mississippi Choctaw item? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. There are about 1,200 Indians living in Mississippi and considerable complaint has been made as to the con- dition of those Indians. We are only asking for $1,000 to make the investigation, and to submit a full report to Congress at the next session regarding the condition of those Indians. Senator Lane. I move to amend that by taking that $1,000 out of the per capita payments that you have here for Oklahoma. How would that do? 518 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. Mr. Mee]tt. That money would not be available for this purpose. Senator Page. I move we approve it. (The item was agreed to.) MENOMINEE (WIS.) INDIAN MILLS. Mr. Meeitt. On page 59 of the bill we would like to have incor- porated this item of legislation. I will read the item and explain it in detail. It should be inserted at the bottom of page 59, as follows : Section three of the act of March twenty-eight, nineteen hundred and eight (thirty-five Statutes at Large, page fifty -one) is hereby amended to read: " That the lumber, lath, shingles, crating, ties, piles, poles, posts, bolts, logs, bark, pulp wood, and other marlcetable materials obtained from the forests on the Menominee Reservation shall be sold under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. The net proceeds of the sale of all forest products shall be deposited in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Menominee Tribe of Indians. Such proceeds shall bear interest at the rate of four per centum per annum, and the interest shall be used for the benefit of such Indians in such manner as the Secretary of the Interior shall prescribe." The justification for the item is found on page 408 of the House hearings. I will say that under tlie existing law we are required to sell the products of that mill for cash, and we are somewhat handicapped in competing with other milling operations. This legislation is favored by Senator La Follette. It is also favored by the Board of Indian Commissioners. Mr. Ayer, of the Board of Indian Commissioners, has made a special investigation of this matter and has urged this legislation. It is favored by the Indian Bureau and everybody who has any knowledge of the situation. There can be no objection to it. It is simply allowing the Secretary of the Interior to sell products of this mill on time, instead of for cash. The Chairman. And in addition to that it was agreed to by the committee last year, agreed to in the House, but the Indian bill failed. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Will you allow me to make a statement here, be- cause there is a chance for debate? The Chaieman. Certainly. Senator Page. The question is whether the United States, either directly or as the guardian of its wards, should sell its goods on credit. The principle that has almost always obtained in regard to these sales is that they should be sold for cash. They should offer the goods to the highest bidder and the terms of the sale should be cash. Now, I at one time made a very careful investigation of this Menominee project. I went over there and spent several days. It is one of the largest lumber projects that I know of — I guess it is the largest, is it not, Mr. Commissioner, among the Indian reserva- tions ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir; it the largest that we have. Senator Page. It is a very important matter, and it has been very unsuccessful up to this time, as I am informed. Am I right about that, Colonel? Mr. Hannan. It depends upon the measure of success. If you charge up to the project the mal-administration of the preliminary INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 519 stages of that project it is not a success measured in dollars and cents. But under the administration of that project since it started and is a going concern, and without the charge for that mal-adminis- tration, it is a success, and it is a success upon another ground, that it is teaching these Indians business and inclustry. Measured in that way it is a big success. Senator Page. I want to approve entirely of what Senator La FoUette's secretary has said about that matter. It is an effort, or per- haps I might say an experiment to test out the quality of the Indian as to his ability to manage large business enterprises for himself. My own impression, from what I examined there, is that the white superintendent in whose charge the matter was, was not a successful business man. The building of that mill, which is one of the finest mills in the country, involving an expenditure of — how many dollars. Col. Hannan ? Mr. Hannan. I can not give you the exact figures. Senator Page. It is a very extravagantly built mill. Mr. Hannan. As I recall, the mill itself, separating the mill from the other proposition, cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000. Senator Page. I think you have it very much too low, but that is only an impression. It is a good mill ; it is well built. There are two rivers that supply the stumpage which converge at the mill. Every- thing seems to have been laid out with pretty fair judgment but it has proved a bad venture for the Indians, at "least up to a recent date. Now the question is, whether we should adopt a new plan in regard to sales and sell on credit. Inasmuch as the Department has recom- mended it, and inasmuch as Senator La FoUette, who has taken great interest in the matter recommends it, I am not inclined to interpose an objection, although I think there would be a great opportunity for debate in regard to whether we ought to go into the plan of selling goods on credit ; whether the men who manage that enterprise there are big enough to sell large quantities of those goods on credit and be careful with regard to the credits, and in regard to their reliability and responsibility of the men to whom they sell. But I am not gomg to object. I simply want to state to the committee here and for the purpose of the record, that it is not altogether certain that we are pursuing the right course here. However, as I have said, I am not going to interpose an objection, certainly not in view of the fact that Senator La Follette is strongly in favor of it. Senator Lane. Have you any lumber there? Mr. Merritt. Yes, sir, there is quite a large amount of lumber. Senator Lane. How much? , , ^ -j. ■ Mr Merritt. I could not tell you the exact amount, but it is esti- mated they are losing probably $50,000 a year because of the failure to get this' legislation. , . -, , i a u ^ ^u Senator Lane. You have now to accept bids, have you ( Sell to the ^Mr^MERRiTT We have to sell to the highest bidder and for cash. Senator Lane. And you want to extend 60 or 90 days' credit, hke the ordinary mill does ? ^ • , , i i. Mr Meritt. Yes, sir. We have to. compete m the open market with other milling concerns, and we want to be placed upon the same basis. 520 INDIAN APPBOPHIATION BILL. Senator Lane. And by having that license probably you could sell off and get rid of this lumber now on hand, you think? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Mr. Kellogg. May I say a word, Mr. Chairman? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Kellogg. Mr. Nicholson, the superintendent of this reserva- tion is a personal friend of mine ; I visited him three times this sum- mer, and through his courtesy I went through the whole plant there and found that there is 45,000,000 feet of lumber lying there subject to fire at any time. Senator Lane. Would this help ? Mr. Kellogg. Certainly; it would help. It is just like selling postage stamps, the way they are doing it now. Mr. Han NAN. I think the record ought to show that the criticism I passed on the maladministration of this contract at the outset was no directed against the man who laid out the plan and who built this mill and laid out the whole operation, but the operation is charged with the loss that was sustained upon 40j000,000's of stumpage, and, perhaps, more than that, that was cut just prior to the adoption of this plan. Senator Page. You do not understand me. Colonel, do you, as saying that the mill was badly laid out ? Mr. Hannan. No, sir; I do not want the criticism to lie against that man. It is against Mr. Braniff, who laid that project out, because he was a man of vision, and laid out a plan there that must work out. Senator Page. And in view of the hundreds of millions of feet of lumber that must come in there, I have never believed that the mill was any better than it ought to have been built. Mr. Hannan. Surely. Senator Page. Have you any idea as to the cost of that mill? Mr. Kellogg. It was about a million dollars. Senator Page. Colonel Hannan said $100,000. Mr. Hannan. The whole operaiton has cost about a million dol- lars; that is, the laying out of the roads, the booms, and the whole improvements, the railroads that have been built, and everything. Mr. Meritt. That includes the entire operation. Mr. Hannan. That includes the entire outfit. (The amendment was agreed to.) Mr. Meeitt. The next item we would like to have incorporated is on the same page and reads as follows : Tlie allotment of any Indian on the Lac de Flambeau Reservation in the State of Wisconsin, or any part of such an allotment, with the consent of the allottee, or in case of death of his heirs, may be leased for residence or business purposes for terms not exceeding twenty years, under such rules and regula- tions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe and with the consent of the Indians of the Lac du Flambeau Tribe, to be obtained in such manner as the Secretary of the Interior may require, the unallotted tribal lands within the said reservation may be leased under like conditions and for similar terms and purposes. The justification for this item is found on pages 408 and 409 of the House hearings. The Lac du Flambeau Reservation is consid- INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 521 ered one of the famous summer resorts in that part of the country, and if we have authority to lease sites on the shores of the lakes we can obtain quite an income for these Indians. It has been very strongly recommended by the superintendent and it is clearly for the benefit of the Indians and will enable us to utilize their allot- ments in a way that we can not now utilize them. Senator Page. Your amendment involves no appropriation? Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. (The amendment was agreed to.) KLAMATH RESERVATION, BRIDGE ACROSS WILLIAJISON RIVER. Senator Lane. There is an item here, Mr. Meritt, for the con- struction of a bridge across the Williamson Kiver on the Klamath Eeservation, as follows: For the construction of a bridge across tlie Williamson River on tlie Klamath Indian Reservation, Oreg., $3,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be immediately available and to remain available until expended, reim- bursable to the United States by the Indians having tribal rights on said reservation, and to remain a charge and lien upon the lands and funds belong- ing to said Indians until paid. There is a justification for it here, as follows : At the present time there is a bridge across the Williamson River on the main traveled road from Chiloquin to Klamath Agency, Fort Klamath, and Crater Lake National Park. This bridge was built some 15 or 20 years ago. Chiloquin is the main distributing point on the Southern Pacific Railroad north of Klamath Falls and the bridge is the most important one on the Res- north of Klamath Falls and the bridge is the most important one on the reservation. There are no other bridges in that vicinity which can be used to reach points west of the Williamson River and there are no fords. The bridge is also essential to the operations of the Modoc Point Irrigation Project. During the summer of 1915 the timbers of the structure were bored into with augers and it was found that the material was rotten, the heavy timber supports being badly decayed and the stringers being rotted for one-third of their thickness, showing that the bridge is in a very unsafe condition. A number of times within the past year traction engines and heavy auto- mobile trucks have passed over the bridge. Plowever, since the inspection was made, notices have been posted warning the public of the danger and giv- ing notice that anyone using the bridge did so at their own risk. Some repairs were made to the flooring of the bridge, but it is estimated that a new bridge can be built with the money it would require to place the old one in good condition. There are several heavy automobile trucks belonging to the United States engineering department of the Crater Lake National Park which run between the park and Chiloquin and large parties of tourists often go to the park by way of Chiloquin and this bridge. Much other heavy traffic passes over it. The stream beneath the bridge is deep and swift ; and if the structure were to break through, there would be serious danger of loss of life and property. The superintendent of the Klamath Reservation disclaims any further responsibility for loss of life or properly resulting from the further use of the bridge, even thought it is now open only to light traffic. Several other bridges on the reservation are in bad condition and an engineer recently reported on six projects, including the erection of a new bridge over the Williamson River near the site of the present bridge. The superintendent states that of the six projects the Williamson Bridge is by far the most urgent. He feels that the bridge is not altogether safe, even for ordinary traffic; but as there is no other bridge anywhere in the vicinity, it is not practicable to close the bridge entirely. Although the Klamath Indians have valuable resources in the form of tribal timber, they have no funds available just at the present time for this work. As it is felt that the unsafe condition of the bridge is daily endangering the life of everyone using it, it is urged that an appropriation be made, to be reim- bursed from tribal funds. The cost of the bridge is estimated to be $2,995.69. 522 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. KLAMATH INDIANS OF OREGON AUTHORITT TO SUBMIT CLAIMS TO COURT OF CLAIMS. That jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims, with the right of appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States, to consider and adjudicate any claim, arising under treaty stipulations or otherwise, which the Klamath band of Indians or other bands of Indians residing in the State or Oregon have against the United States ; and such suit or suits as may be instituted hereunder shall, if the convenience of the court admit, be advanced upon the docket of either of said courts for trial, and be determined at the earliest practicable time. That upon the final determination of such suit or suits the Court of Claims shall decree such fees as the court shall find to be reasonable, to be paid to the attorney or attorneys employed by the said band of Indians, and the same shall be paid out of the sum found to be due said band of Indians when an appropriation therefor shall have been made by Congress : Pro vidcd, That in no case shall the fees decreed by the court exceed in amount such sum or sums as may have been fixed therefor under the terms of any contract entered into between the Indians and their attorney in conformity with section twenty-one hundred and three and the following of the Revised Statutes of the United States for the prosecution of their claim. Senator Lane. There are two Klamath Indians here who claim to be' duly elected delegates from their tribe. I took the matter up with them. One is Mr. Harrison Brown and the name of the other gentleman I have forgotten. Do you desire to say anything about this? Mr. Hendricks. There should be a new bridge there. At present it is unsafe. If you should break through there there would be loss of life. Senator Lane. I will say that the bridge is used more by the white men than the Indians, there is no doubt about that. This heavy trucking is by the engineer's department engaged in working on the other project, which is an Indian project, but a great many people are going to Crater Lake. It is a white man's bridge, but the stream is on this reservation. Senator Page. Are the Indians willing to have this bridge built at their expense? Senator Lane. They do not object, as I understand it. Senator Page. I went up there last summer. I know that the traffic is increasing very fast. You will meet hundreds of automobiles going from Medford up there, and I do not think we are doing our duty if we do not see that a proper bridge is built there. The State of Oregon is doing a Avonderful piece of work and so is Jackson county, for that property. Senator Lane. That is in the other county. Senator Page. I should not object to the bridge being built there. Mr. Meritt. We would like to have that item in the bill. (The item was agreed to.) KLAMATH DELEGATION TRAVELING EXPENSES. Senator Lane. There is an item here that these gentlemen wish inserted in the bill that is similar to the one that was inserted with respect to other States, as follows : That the sum of $1,000, or so much thereof as' may be necessary, of the tribal funds of the Klamath Indians of the State of Oregon, is hereby appropriated to pay the actual expenses of the two delegates of the said tribe who have been elected by the general council of the Klamath Indians to attend to the business INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 523 of the tribe and pay their expenses to Washington in February and Marcli nineteent hundred and sixteen, to present the affairs of the said Klamath Indians of the State of Oregon to the officials of the United States. Would you haA'e any objection to allowing their expenses? Mr. Meritt. I do not believe the office would have any objection to the allowance of their actual expenses. Senator Lane. They came here at their own expense. Senator Page. You say that is with regard to the Klamath matter? Senator Lake. Yes; it is simply to see about their timberland. They have drawn up a brief on that subject and in respect to differ- ent matters that they wish to present in relation to the sale of their timberlands and the handling of their property. Those Indians, in their tribal holdings, are very rich people— I told you about that the other day — but there has been no sale of their timberlands. Most of them are poor individually, but some are fairly well to do. They are capable people. Senator Page. I have no objection to that. (The item was agreed to.) SCHOOL LANDS AND SWAMP LANDS, BAD RIVER AND LAC DU FLAMBEAU RESERVATION. Mr. Meritt. That is one item that we had included in our esti- mates, which reads as follows : That without bias or prejudice to the rights or interest of any party to the pending litigation the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby is, author- ized to sell the timber on the so-called " school lands " and " swamp lands " within the boundaries of the Bad Biver and Lac du Flambeau Indian Reser- vations in Wisconsin, and to which the State of Wisconsin has asserted a claim ; to keep a separate account of the proceeds of such sale with each legal subdivision of such land and to deposit the said proceeds at interest in a national bank, bonded for the safe-keeping of individual Indian moneys, to be paid over, together with the interest thereon, to the party who shall finally be adjudged to be the owner of such land : Provided, That the consent of the State or parties claiming title therefrom be obtained before any such sale shall be made. The justification for that item is found on page 408 of the House hearings. The timber in that country has been very largely manu- factured, and unless -this timber on the school lands and swamp lands where there is controversy as to ownership is sold soon, the opportu- nity for selling it at the highest price may not be much longer available. The Chairman. This provision was in the bill last year and was agreed to by the conferees, but you have made a change in the lan- guage in two words, and I do not understand the reason for it. Last year it read " without bias or prejudice to the rights or interests of any party to the litigation hereinafter mentioned." You say now, "pending." Why that change? Mr. Hannan. The change was made because the suit that was at that time contemplated has since been instituted, and it has gone to the Supreme Court of the United States, and will be tied up for a long time, and in order to get the highest price for this timber upon these sections it should be sold at the present time while the opera- tions are in full sway up in that section of the country. It is rather an emergency measure. 524 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. I would like to ask Mr. Meritt why it would not be better that this fund be kept in the Federal Treasury rather than put in banks there, as long as it is likely to be a long time before the matter is adjusted? Mr. Meeitt. It might take further legislation to get the money out of the Treasury. Senator Owen. There is an objection to it, and a very substantial one, and that is, that those funds are withdrawn from that commu- nity to start with, and could be reloaned if it was left in the banks, and it could not be if it was put in the Federal Treasury. In that way the money would be active in the community. Senator Page. No money is withdrawn. The avails of the timber . may be deposited in there or in the Treasury. Senator Owen. But if it is in the banks it is subject to be loaned out by the banks, and in that way it would be active in the commun- ity in which it was withdrawn, otherwise it would simply abstract from this section those funds without use. Mr. Hannen. Mr. Page, this item simply follows the distribution that is now made of the proceeds from the timber of Indian reserva- tions in Wisconsin. Mr. Meeitt. That is true ; and the money will be amply protected by surety bonds. (The item was agreed to.) TUTTLiE TOWNSITE. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call attention to the bill relative to the Tuttle townsite which the Department of Justice recommends should be compromised, otherwise it is going to cost the United States a good deal larger sum in their judgment. The House committee has reported that bill ; they did that on Feb- ruary 21, after the Indian bill had left the House. I was directed several days ago to report a bill to the Senate of like report, and I want to call the attention of the committee to the possibility of a small bill of that character being lost in the legislative drift mill here, and of the importance of this item going on the Indian bill in order to assure its passage at this session of Congress. Before the Supreme Court passed upon this case against the Government, it had already passed against the Government in the court of appeals, and the Department of Justice thinks it ought to be compromised, and the only way to do it promptly is to do it in connection with this bill. Mr. Dawson, of the Interior Department, is here, and I would be glad if the committee would hear him for a few moments. Mr. Dawson. I think the commissioner is familiar with this matter. Senator Page. How much is involved. Senator Owen? Senator Owen. $67,000. "We may be compelled to pay $700,000 if the matter goes to the courts. Senator Page. You advise it? Senator Owen. Absolutely, and so do the Departments of Justice and the Interior. Senator Page. As far as I am concerned, if you advise it, and the department advises it, I do not care to oppose it. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 525 Mr. Mekitt. We are in favor of the legislation. The Chaikman. Is there any objection? Do you want it on the bill, Senator? Senator Owen. If you please. The Chairman. All right, it will go on the bill. Senator Owen. I will give this form as adopted by the House of Representatives : That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he Is hereby, authorized to effectuate a compromise settlement of the suit of tlie United States against E. Dowden and otliers decided adversely to tlie Government on January fourth, nineteen hun- dred and fifteen, by tlie United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit and now pending on appeal in the Supreme Court of" the United States, and for said purpose to purchase whatever right, title, and interest that said E. Dowden may have in or to the land Involved in said suit, said land being situated within the area segregated for town-site purposes at Tuttle, Oklahoma, and to take such other action as may be necessary to quiet the title in the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations to said land and in the purchasers from said nations at the Government sale of the town lots, and for the above purpose the sum of $57,500, together with interest thereon at the rate of sis per centum per annum from February twenty-fourth, nineteen hundred and sixteen, to date of settlement, is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury of the United States not otherwise appropriated: Provided, That the United States is to be reimbursed to the extent of the proceeds heretofore derived, or which may hereafter be derived, from the sale of the town lots within the area affected by such compromise settlement. Mr. Meeitt. We have one further item. On page 40 of the com- mittee print, to be inserted after the word "prescribed" in line 17, and to read as follows : CHICKASAW, CHOCTAW, CEEEK, AND SEMINOLES. And provided fnrilier, That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby empowered to expend funds of the Cliickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, ami Seminole Nations available for school purposes under existing law for such repairs, improvements, or new buildings as he may deem essential for the proper conduct of the several schools of said tribes. The justification for that item is found on page 347, House hear- ings. We hare quite a number of tribal schools in operation in those nations, but under a ruling of the comptroller we can not use the tribal funds for the upkeep and maintenance. Senator Owen. Upkeep is one thing and new buildings is another. I notice your item includes new buildings. Mr. Meeitt. And improvement of those school plants. Senator Owen. What new buildings do you contemplate? Mr. Meritt. We have recently purchased the Hargrove College property at Ardmore, Okla., and we can not operate that property without considerable improvements being made in the buildings, and it is for the purpose of permitting us to improve that property so that it can be operated. Senator Owen. You use the words " new buildings." Mr. Meritt. It is our purpose simply to provide for improvements. I will strike those words out if they are objectionable. Senator Owen. Yes. _ •, ,^ -.r ■ xo Senator Page. How much is involved, Mr. Meritt '. Mr. Meritt. No definite amount is stated, but it is simply for the purpose of enabling the Secretary of the Interior to maintain and improve the tribal buildings that are now being used for school pur- poses in the Choctaw, Chickasaw, and Creek Nations. 526 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. Would it not be wise to make some limitation ? Mr. Meeitt. It is difficult to estimate the exact amount that we shall need for that purpose. Senator Page. You could say $10,000, $20,000, or $30,000, could you not? Mr. Meeitt. If you wish to put on a limitation we will have no objection to a reasonable limitation, not to exceed $50,000. Senator Page. I do not know but that would be worse than none. How is that, Senator Owen, if we say not to exceed $50,000? Are they not certain to extend $50,000? Senator Owen. They would be certain to extend it if it was put in the bill, would they not, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meeitt. We would prefer not to have the limitation. Senator Page. I wondered whether you could not limit it to $10,000 or $20,000 so we might ImoAv that no large expenditure was to be made. Mr. Meeitt. I do not know the exact amount necessary. Senator Page. It will take $25,000 or $30,000 for ^hat Hargrove improvement ? Mr. Meeitt. It will take quite a large amount; for that reason we should not like to say off-hand the exact amount. Senator Owen. That building was burned, was it not? Did you not have a fire out there? Mr. Meeitt. One of the tribal buildings was destroyed and that is one of the reasons why we put in here "new buildings." In the event that there is a fire we can immediately construct a new build- ing. We should like very much. Senator Owen, to have the words "new buildings" in the item if agreeable to you. Senator Owen. That term "new buildings" is so broad it would seem to open the way to a general construction. Senator Page. It seems to me that I would either cross out the words "new buildings" or make a limitation of $30,000 or $40,000. Still you know. Senator Owen, better about it. Senator Owen. You would have no objection to the words "new buildings" if you had the limitation? Suppose you put the words "new buildings" in there, "not to exceed $30,000." Senator Page. That is satisfactory to me. Mr. Meeitt. We will try to get along with that. Senator Owen. Let that be done. The Chairman. Then that will be agreed to. Senator Owen. In connection with the Tuttle matter. I should like to have put into the record a letter from the Secretary of Inte- rior of date February 16, 1916, which will explain the reasons. The Chaieman. That will be done. Senator Owen. I also submit a report on this provision. (The letter and report is here printed in full, as follows:) Department of ti-ie Inteeiob, Washiiifiton, February 15, 1916. My Deak Mr. Stephens : Reference is made herein to H. R. 10791, entitled "A bill for the relief of the occupants of the Tuttle town site," and to your re- quest of February 4, 1916, for a report thereon for the use and information of the Committee on Indian Affairs of the House of Representatives. Said bill has for its purpose the authorizing of the Secretary of the Interior to effectuate a compromise settlement of the suits of the United States v. B. Dowden et al. in relation to the title to certain land in the town site of Tuttle, Okla., in which suit was involved the question of whether the Secretary of the INDIAN APPKOPEIATIOl^ BILL. 527 Interior had authority to set aside for town-site purposes in Tuttle, Olda., cer- tain land aggregating 120.10 acres which had been filed upon or selected in allotment by Carrie L. McClure and the heirs of Aaron Colbert, members of the Choctaw Tribe of Indians. The United States court for the eastern district of Oklahoma rendered on May 1, 1913 (194 Fed., 475), a decision adverse to the Government, and which sustained the claim of E. Dowden et. al. vendees of the above-mentioned allottees. The court held that the allottees were under no restrictions whatever upon alienation, and concluded that by their selection they acquired interests in the allotment which, even pending the retention of allotment certificates by the Commission to the Five Civilized Tribes awaiting the expiration of the contest period therein, might be conveyed, as was done In said case, and that the subsequent issuance of allotment certificates and patents, when issued, must be held to relate to the date of selection and inure to Mr. Dowden, their grantee. The United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit afllrmed on January 4, 1915 (220 Fed., 277), the decree of the lower court in favor of the appellees. On May 27, 1905, and after the above-mentioned land had been selected In allotment, the Secretary of the Interior segregated 160.10 acres for town-site purposes at Tuttle, Okla., including the 120.10 acres involved in the present liti- gation. Within said area in controversy there are 293 lots, of which 271 were scheduled as improved and 22 as vacant, and for the lots sold by the Govern- ment there was received to the credit of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations the sum of $7,338.14. It further appears that there is due and unpaid the sum of $1,625.11. It also appears that patents have been delivered to the purchasers from the Government covering 70 lots, and that final payments have been re- ceived on 16 other lots to which the patents have not been issued, and that on 207 lots full payments of the purchase price have not been received. After the segregation of the land for town-site purposes, a number of suits were instituted l\v E. Dowden, the vendee of the allottees, against the occupants of the land who had purchased the lots from the Government, and said suits in the State courts appear to have been decided in favor of Mr. Dowden. The town of Tuttle is reported to have about 1,000 inhabitants and to be situated in a splendid agricultural country. It is further reported that a de- plorable condition exists in said town by reason of the unsettled condition of the land title in the town site, which condition has prevented the development of the town. The title to the land affected by the case of the United States d. E. Dowden et al. has been in litigation for over 10 years in the State or Federal courts. Upon consideration of the whole case, the conclusion has been reached that a successful outcome of the appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States is doubtful, with the probabilities being in favor of the sustaining of the ad- verse decisions of the courts below. Bearing in mind the value of the property involved and the various court decisions favorable to the contention of Mr. Dowden, and in the interests of peace and for the welfare of the community of Tuttle, Okla., and especially of the large number of persons who were pur- chasers at the Government town-lot sale and whose homes are jeopardized by the continued litigation, and for the bringing of this long-drawn-out controversy* to a definite end, it is believed that an adjustment of the matter through a compromise agreement with Mr. Dowden should be had. Such an agreement has been entered into contingent upon an appropriation being obtained to ef- fectuate the same. Under said agreement the sum of $57,500 is to be paid to Mr. Dowden in full settlement of all his right, title, and interest in the land involved in the above-mentioned suit of the United States v. E. Dowden et al., and if the payment thereof is not made to him on or before February 24, 1916, then that said amount should bear interest after that date at the rate of 6 per cent per annum to date of settlement. In consideration of said payment being made, Mr. Dowden is to execute and have properly recorded a quitclaim deed to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes of Indians wherein he shall convey all right, title, and interest that he has or may have in and' to said property, and In addition thereto will discharge of record in such manner and in such time as the Attorney General or the Secre- tary of the Interior may direct, all judgments he has obtained in all suits instituted by him affecting any of the property involved in the case, and the execuition and recordation of the quitclaim deed, together with the terms of such deed shall be subjected to the approval of the Attorney General or of the Secretary of the Interior. In addition thereto, Mr. Dowden is to pay all his costs in the State and Federal courts. 528 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. If the above-mentioned agreement for a compromise settlement of the matter is not effectuated by the legislation necessary thereto and the Government finally loses in the case on appeal, the persons who bought from the Government lots in said town and who, relying upon their title arising out of said purchase, made valuable improvements on said lots, will suffer a considerable loss and they would undoubtedly look to the Government to make good their losses. In view of the status of the suit, the deplorable conditions existing in the town of Tuttle, Okla., caused by the litigation, and the advantages to the gen- eral welfare of the community through the effectuation of the compromise set- tlement of the ease, it is recommended that the appropriation for the carrying of said compromise agreement into effect be made. I suggest that H. R. 10791 be amended by adding after the word " appro- priated," in line 6, on page 2 of said bill, a paragraph, as follows : " the United States to be reimbursed to the extent of the proceeds derived, or which may be derived, from the sale of the town lots within the area affected by , such compromise settlement." According to the decisions of the United States courts in the case, the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations parted with their title to the land when the allotment selections were made by Carrie L. McOlure and the heirs of Aaron Colbert, members of the Choctaw Tribe entitled to allotment, there having been no con- test against said allotment selections within the period allowed by law, and the title thereto was acquired by Mr. Dowden through purchase from said allottees. The Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations were therefore not entitled to further compensation for the land, and if the Government had not taken the erroneous action in segregating said lands for town-site purposes, said Indian nations would not Jiave been entitled to or received any town-site money from said lands. It seems therefore only right that for the appropriation necessary to the settle- ment of the case the United States should be reimbursed to the extent of the money received or that may hereafter be received from the sale of the town lots within the area involved in the settlement. I believe tlie legislation as proposed in H. It. 10791, with tlie amendment above suggested, will meet the requirements of the case and provide ample authority for the settlement of the matter as contemplated. I therefore recom- mend the enactment of said bill and suggested amendment, and would be pleased if such legislation might be obtained at the earliest practicable date. Copies of the decisions of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma and the United- States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth Cir- cuit, together with copies of certain correspondence with the Attorney General relating thereto and to the proposed settlement of the case, are transmitted herewith. Said inclosed papers set forth more fully the facts In the case. Cordially, yours, Fkanklin K. IjAnb, Secretary. Hon. John H. Stephens, Chairman Commitiee on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. . Senator Page. Is that the last of your items, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; there were several legislative items we included in the House hearings, but in view of the fact that they are now preparing an omnibus bill in the House, and those items are subject to a point of order in the Indian bill, we have not asked that they be included in this bill. The Chairman. I am very glad you are going to do that. Senator Clapp. You have not heard from the department on forests? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; the report has been prepared, but I do not think it has been submitted to the committee. Senator Clapp. I think you told me you would be able to have the Eeg Wing and Martin matters looked up ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; if you will write me a letter about that^ Senator, we shall be glad to have the matter investigated. • The Chairman. Are there any other items? INDIAN APPBOPfilATION BILL. 529 SEMINOLE INDIANS PER CAPITA PAYMENTS. Senator Owen. The Seminole per capita I do not believe has been finally drafted. The Chairman. The department Senator Owen. They think $300 ought to be paid to those people. The Chairman. What is your item, Senator? Senator Owen. The item is as follows : OKLAHOMA. Tliiit tlie tJecretai-y of the Interior be, and lie is liereby, authorized to pay to the enrolled members of the Seminole Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma entitled under existing hnv to share in the funds of said tribe, or to their lawful heirs, out of any moneys belonKing to said tribe, in the United States Treasury or deposited in any bank or held by any official under the .iurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior, not to exceed .$300 per capita: Provided. That said payment shall be made under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe: Proiided further, That in cases where such enrolled members or their heirs are Indians who by reason of their degree of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Secretary of the Interior may in his discretion, withhold such payments and use the same for the benefit of such restricted Indians: Prodded further. That the money paid to tliu enrolled mem- bers or theii heii-s as provided herein shall be exempt from any lien for attor- ney's fees or other debt contracted prior to the passage of this act. There is hereby appropriated a sum not to exceed .$2,000 out of the funds of said Semi- nole Tribe for the payment of the salaries and other expenses of said per capita payment or payments. Senator Page. How many are there? Senator Owen. About 2,700. iVIi-. Meritt. There are enrolled, entitled to a share in this fund, 3,127 Seminoles. There is now in the Treasury to the credit of these Indians $l,i7l,22J:.53. Senator Page. That would substantially exhaust the fund then? ^Ir. Meritt. It would leare about $500,000 in the Treasury. Senator Owen. The $500,000 would be used to carry on their schools. Senator Page. Senator Page. Senator Owen, I do not know why this ought not to be done exactly as you ask, nor do I know, except as I have your opinion for it why it should be done, and it seems to me that $1,000,000 ought not to be appropriated here with not more than five minutes' discussion. Senator Owen. Senator, this has been reported heretofore by the Interior Department ; it ought to have been done long ago ; it was a matter of neglect on the part of the Government not to pay these people what is promised them by treaty. There ought to be no longer delay. Senator Page. If there was some one here to represent the depart- ment about that Senator Owen. Mr. Meritt is here and recommends it. Senator Page. He did not recommend it in his original report to us. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman and Senator Page, the Indian Office is in favor of this per capita payment. These Indians have their tribal affairs practically wound up, and we believe it is the duty of the Indian Bureau and of Congress to wind up these tribal affairs as quicldy as possible in accordance Avith the laws and the agree- ments with those Indians. 31362—16 34 530 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. Senator Page. I fully agree with that. Now, is there any one of the tribe, or anyone connected connected with the tribe, who objects to this legislation? Mr. Mekitt. Not that I know of. Senator Owen. They have appealed for it time and again. Mr. Meritt. I think every member of the tribe will be in favor of this per capita payment. Senator Page. You do not know anyone that opposes it ? Senator Owen. I do not. Senator Page. Do you think the only reason why it did not pass at the last session was because we did not pass the bill ? Senator Oaven. Yes. Senator Page. Was it in the general appropriation ? Senator Owen. I do not know. Senator Lane. I do not know ; I do not remember now. There are about 3,000 Seminoles? Senator Owen. Yes. Senator Page. Is this the last of their money ? Senator Owen. This is the last of their distributive funds, except the $500,000 reserved for school purposes. Senator Page. I have, as you know, always had doubt about pour- ing so much money into one locality. Senator Owen. It is merely distributing what has been paid into the Treasury from that locality; it belongs to these people, and the Government has promised point-blank to pay it to them. Senator Page. I agree fully if they are competent Indians and would take care of this fund and would not dissipate and waste it. Senator Owen. The Government is now providing funds to pro- tect the incompetents, and this very item provides that the Commis- sioner of Indian Affairs shall protect the incompetents. Senator Lane. What are the Indians doing mostly? Senator Owen. They are farming mostly. Senator Lane. Are they getting along fairly well? Senator Owen. They have always supported themselves. They have been self-supporting for 60 or 70 years. Senator Lane. They are? Senator Owen. Certainly, they aie. Senator Lane. Then they ought to have this money. Senator Page. I think I must excuse myself. It is now 12 o'clock. ODANAH (wis.) CONSTETJCTION OE SIDEWALKS. The Chairman. That will be agreed to. The next amendment is the one proposed by the Senator from Wisconsin for the repair and construction of sidewalks in the village of Odanah, Wis. For the repair and construction of sldewallcs in the village of Odanah, within the Bar River Reservation, $1,000, said sum to be reimbursed to the United States from any moneys which are now or which may hereafter be placed to the credit of the Bad River Band of Wisconsin Chippewa Indians. If my memory serves me correctly that was in the bill last year, and agreed to by the conferees and after a full discussion in this committee. Senator Owen. I move its adoption. IFDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 531 The Chairman. Is there any objection or discussion? If not, it is agreed to. Here is another item which was proposed last year by the Senator from AVisconsin on which there was discussion for nearly 10 days, and it was agreed to by this committee. Senator Lane. What is that ? The Chairman. Ninety thousand dollars claim of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians. It was agreed to in the House, agreed to by the conferees, and is proposed .again this year. STOCKBRIDGE AND MUNSEE TRIBES PAYMENTS. There is hereby appropriated the sum of $95,000, to be used in addition to the tribal funds of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribes of Indians, for the payment of the members of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribes of Indians who were en- rolled under the act of Congress of March third, eighteen hundred and ninety- three, equal amounts to the amounts paid to the other members of said tribe prior to the enrollment under said act, and such payments shall be made upon the certificate and order of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs upon claims being filed with him, showing to his satisfaction that such claimants, or the ancestors of such claimants, were enrolled under the act of March third, eight- een hundred and ninety-three, entitled "An act for the relief of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribes of Indians of the State of Wisconsin. Senator Clapp. That we had in last year. The Chairman. If there is any objection, of course, it can not go on, because it is legislation. Is there any objection? Mr. Meritt. We should like to have that amount increased to $95,000. Subsequent investigation shows that it will take about $95,000. The Chairman. It was $95,000 last year. Is there any objection? If not, it is agreed to. Mr. Meritt. After the words " $95,000 " may we have " to be used in addition to tribal funds of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribes of Indians?" That is, in order to make it clear that it supplements the tribal funds of those Indians. Mr. Hannen. There is only a few thousand dollars left in the tribal funds. Mr. Meritt. Just a few thousand dollars. Mr. Hannan. For the sake of the record, I ask that there be put in the hearings a letter from the department justifying that item. (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as follows:) Depabtment of the Inteeior, Washington, April 23, IdVf. My Deak Me. Stephens : I have received your letter of March 23, forwarding for report copy of a bill (H. R. 12297) proposed by Hon. Thomas P. Konop, intended to provide an appropriation to pay certain members of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians, enrolled under the act of March 3, 1893 (27 Stats. L., 744), the amount of payments made prior to their respective enrollments. This bill apparently is designed to accomplish a purpose similar with that intended to be provided for by an item which Mr. Konop heretofore proposed for Insertion in tlie Indian appropriation bill and which was referred for report by your letter of December 6, 1913, addressed to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and reported upon by me on December 26, 1913. . , , - SeSlon 6 of the act of February 6, 1871 (16 Stats. L., 404-407), provided for the determination of the persons who were members of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe and the future relations of each to the Government, in pursuance of which two rolls were to be prepared— one to be known as the citizen roll, to embrace the names of all persons of full age and their families who desired 532 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. to separate their relations with the tribe and become citizens ; and the other to be known as the Indian roll, and to contain the names of all who desired to retain their tribal character and continue under the care and guardianship of the Government. It was provided that no person should be entered on the citizen roll without his or her full and free consent or on either of the rolls if separation from the tribe was effected and an allotment of land was received under the act of Congress for the relief of the Stockbridge Tribe of Indians approved March 3, 1843 (5 Stats. L., 645), and amendment of August 6, 1846 (9 Stats. L., 55-56), or treaty of February 5, 1856 (11 Stats., 663-678), or who was not of Stockbridge or Munsee descent. Subsequent to the enactment of this law, payments were made to persons enrolled in 1874 as members of the tribe, and thereafter many persons alleged that, although they desired to remain under the control of the Government, they had been forcibly prevented from presenting themselves for enrollment. , Under date of March 3, 1893 (27 Stats. L., 744^745), Congress enacted a law under which all persons who were members of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians at the time of the execution of the treaty of February 5, 1856, supra, and their descendants, and all persons who became members of the tribe under article 6 of that treaty, and had not become separated from the tribe, were declared members thereof and entitled to their pro rata share in the tribal funds and in the occupancy of tribal lands. The persons who were held to have been erroneously excluded from the roll in 1874, and children subsequently born to them, were enrolled in 1894, and have shared in tribal payments made since that time, but so far ouly one family has received shares in payments made prior to' the 1894 enrollment. I am advised that about 343 claims have been filed in the Indian Office by Indians for shares, amounting to $567.33 each, in payments made to the tribe, under the provisions of the act of February 6, 1871, supra, from the third quarter of the fiscal year 1874 to the second quarter of the fiscal year 1894. The amount of money required to pay the claims now pending aggregates approximately $121,676.24. On March 25, 1914, the Stockbridge and Munsee Indians had to their credit in the Treasury $71,522.30, with accrued interest thereon amounting to $15,334.59, a total of $86,656.89. From a report received from the superintendent it appears that the " interest " on the fund is liable for the settlement of unpaid shares in payments made through the agency amounting to $7,192.06, which would leave a balance of interest of $8,142.53, and the greater part of the amount needed to liquidate the 343 claims for back annuities now pending before the Indian Office is also payable from the " in- terest," which, as is obvious, is entirely Inadequate. Under the provisions of the act of June 21, 1906 (34 Stats. L., 325-382), the members of this tribe are given the option of taking an allotment of land, or having it commuted in cash at the rate of $2 per acre, and about $40,000 of the principal mentioned above are liable thereunder, In brief, the available liabilities and assets may be summarized as follows : Liabilities : Claims for unpaid annuities from 1874 to 1894 $121, 676. 24 Unpaid shares in payments made since 1894 7, 192. 06 For money payments in lieu of allotments 40, 000. 00 168, 868. 30 Assets : Stockbridge consolidated fund $71, 522. 30 Interest 15, 334. 59 86, 856. 89 Additional amount required 82,856.89 The amount of money intended to be appropriated in the proposed bill will not, alone, be sufficient to pay all the claims made by Indians, and it is believed the bill as now written will preclude the use of any other funds which might be available and which, in view of the large amount of the claims, must be also used. It is, therefore, recommended that the bill be amended by inserting, after the figures " $90,000.00 " on line 3, page 1, the words " to be used in addition to tribal funds of the Stockbridge and Munsee Tribe of Indians," and on line 4, page 1, strike out the words " the Stockbridge and Munsee " and insert the word " that." INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 533 Claims other than those now pending may be presented, which would increase the amount which will be required if the claims are to be settled. In a decision, dated July 17, 1911, the Comptroller of the Treasury decided that persons who were restored to the rolls by the act of March 3, 1893, are entitled to shares in tribal payments during the time they were excluded, but action on the pending claims has been suspended because of lack of funds with which to effect a com- plete settlement, and it is not considered advisable to make a partial settlement for the reason that such a course would make preferred claims of some and result in dissatisfaction. For these reasons, I recommend that the proposed bill be amended as sug- gested and that it be given favorable consideration by your committee iuid the Congress. Very truly, yours, A. A. Jones, First Assistant Secretary. Hon. John H. Stephens, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, Souse of Representatives. Senator Owen. If there be no further items in the Indian appro- priation bill, I move the bill be reported. Senator Clapp. We have a forest proposition here and it has not come up from the department. I am waiting for the department to send it up. CHEEOKEES OF NORTH CAROLINA. The Chairman. In the meanwhile I ask permission, in the interest of time and economy of time, to incorporate in the bill an amendment proposed by Senator Simmons proposing to appropriate $50,000 to ac- quire a site at or near the town of Pembroke, Kobeson County, N. C, and to have erected thereon suitable buildings for schools in Eobeson County. It is calender No. 95. If the department should unfavor- ably recommend this, it may be struck out. I do not know what their report will be. north CAROLINA ^PtTKCHASE OF LAND IN ROBESON COUNTY FOR SCHOOL PURPOSES. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to acquire a site at or neaT the town of Pembroke, Kobeson County North Carolina, and cause to be erected thereon suitable buildings for a school for the Indians of Kobeson County, North Carolina, now living in Robeson and surrounding counties in North Carolina, and the sum of $r30,000 is hereby appro- priated out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise approprmted to pay for the site and the erection of the buildings. That after the aforesaid buildings are erected the sum of $10,000 is hereby appropriated for the conduct and main- tenance of said school for the Indians of Kobeson County, North Carolina under the supervision of the Secretary of the Interior, in accordance with the pro- visions of law for the conduct and maintenance of schools for the Indians by the United States Government. Senator Owen. Is that for the Cherokees of North Carolina? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; there are about 2,900 Indian children, about 800 of whom are not provided with any school facilities ihe State, however has provided some school facilities for those Indians, but norsuffic'ient to provide for all the Indian children. The Indian chil- SrL do no atfend the white schools, and they do not attend the colored schools. There are special Indian schools provided for them, Vint those schools are not adequate. ,.„,-, ^ , ■ i. The Chairman. Let it go in the bill, and if the department is not in favor of it, it may go out. Senator Simmons appeared before the 534 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. committee last year, but the report was not here, and he did not care to be heard when the report was not here. Senator Owen. Is this merely for a site or to get the buildings? Mr. Meeitt. This is for the site and the building. The Chairman. Let it go on the bill subject to a point of order, and if anything develops against it we can discuss it in the Senate. If there is no objection it will go in the bill. Senator Owen. What is that forestry item, Senator Clapp ? RED lake (mINN.) RESERVATION TIMBER. Senator Clapp. At the Red Lake Reservation in Minnesota there , is quite a large body of pine, and efforts are being made to provide that the mature pine may be sold from time to time and cut and har- vested, reserving the immature timber to continue its growth. . It is a matter of some time in framing up the provisions. Senator Nelson introduced an amendment for it early in the session. We put it on last year, but the department, involving as it does very large adminis- tration by the department, has prepared its views and that has not yet come, and I think as a matter of deference, involving as it does administrative matters especially, we ought to wait the afternoon out. I understand the report has gone to the Secretary. Senator Owen. Is there a favorable report from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs ? Senator Clapp. Oh, yes. Mr. Meritt. The department has recommended certain changes in the bill as introduced by Senator Nelson. The Chairman. There is another amendment to fulfill treaty stipulations proposed by the Senator from Wisconsin. ST. CEOIX CHIPPEWAS OF WISCONSIN. There is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not other- wise appropriated, the sum of $125,000, in full settlement of the claims against the United States of the Saint Croix Chippewa Indians of Wisconsin, whose names appear upon the final roll prepared by the Secretary of the Interior, pursuant to the provisions of the act of Congress approved August first, nine- teen hundred and fourteen, and which final roll is contained in the report of the Secretary of the Interior to the House of Representatives, dated March third, nineteen hundred and fifteen, the same being House Document Numbered Sixteen hundred and sixty-three. Sixty-third Congress, thii'd session. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to distribute said funds per capita among said Indians appearing upon said final roll, or in his discretion, per capita share of each said Indian may be credited to Mm and expended by said Secretary for his benefit in such manner, including the pur- chase of land, as he may deem proper : Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby is, authorized and directed to strike from the said final roll of the Saint Croix Chippewas the name of Maggie Staples, number thirty-nine thereon, and also to strike therefrom the name or names of any other Indians who shall hereafter be found to have received an allotment of lands on any Indian Reservation : And provided further, That no part of the money hereby appropriated shall be paid to any of the persons whose names shall be so stricken from the final roll by the Secretary of the Interior. Senator Clapp. I would say this to Senator Owen: These are members of the Wisconsin Chippewas who got over into the western part of the State along the banks of the St. Croix. Somewhere INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 535 they are entitled- to property, it is hard to say just where, and they seem to have lost, perhaps, their technical rights to enrollment with the Bad Eiver band. Noav, this land that they are on is cheap land to-day, and, if the Government had this fund, this land, which is cut- over country, could undoubtedly be secured so as to provide some little homes for these people. Senator Owen. They never have had any allotments? Senator Clapp. No; that is, the mass of them never had. This provides if any of them had, then, of course, they will not be in- cluded in this distribution. Senator Owen. Does the Secretary recommend this? The Chairman. Yes; here is a letter signed by the Secretary ad- dressed to Mr. Stephens. Department of the Inxerioe, WasJiington, January 21f, 1916. My Deak Me. Stephens: I am in receipt by your reference of January 4, 1916, for report of a copy of H. R. 5774, " For tlie relief of the St. Croix Chippewa Indians of Wisconsin." The bill provides for an appropriation of the sum of $125,000, in full settle- ment of all the claims against the United States of the so-called St. Croix, Chippewa Indians of Wisconsin, whose names appear upon the final roll pre- pared by the Secretary of the Interior under the provisions of the Act of Con- gress approved August 1, 1914 (38 Stat. L. 582, 605). Further, the bill directs the Secretary of the Interior to distribute the sum for the benefit of the Indians, including the purchase of land therefor. The report of this department transmitting to Congress the final roll referred to, which contained the names of 95 Saint Croix Chippewa Indians believed to be entitled to benefits from the Government, will be found set out in full in House Document No. 1663, Sixty-third Congress, third session. In submitting the roll mentioned, it was stated In effect that the Indians named thereon had not heretofore received from the Government their share of reservation lands to which they would have beeu entitled under the pro- visions of the treaty of September 30, 1854 (10 Stat. L., 1109), had they removed to their respective reservations, and that it was believed that the value of an allotment of land would approximate the sum of $1,000 or $1,500. In further explanation of the failure of these Indians to remove to their respective reservation following the treaty, supra, I learn from the Commis- sioner of Indian AfCairs that some of the subchiefs and many members of the Band of Chief Buck did not understand that the present Lac Oourte Oreille Indian Reservation established by said treaty was to be their future home; that they believed the lands embracing the waters of the Saint Croix and Yellow Rivers were to be set aside for them as their home and hunting grounds, and that they never ceded or relinquished such country to the United States. I am also advised that the Indians themselves understood that there were not sufficient lands on the Lac Courte Oreille Reservation to provide for them should they have removed thereto, nor could they have made a living in such event. From the evidence subsequently received b.y the Indian Bureau, it appears that maggie Staples, No. 39 on the final roll, was enrolled and allotted as a Chippewa of the Bad River Reservation, Wisconsin, and would not therefore be entitled to enrollment or relief with the Saint Croix Chippewa. It seems also that charges have been made by certain Saint Croix Chippewa that Bet-to-wash- a-no-quah. No. 81 on the final roll, has heretofore been allotted with the Chip- pewa of the Lac Courte Oreille Reservation. If the bill be enacted, I recommend that it be amended by adding on page 2 after line 7, the following : " Sec. 3. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and directed to strike from the said final roll the name of Maggie Staples, numbered thirty- nine, thereon, and also to strike therefrom the name or names of any other Indians who shall hereafter be found to have received an allotment of land on any Indian Reservation : And provided further, That no part of the money 536 INDIAN APPKOPEIATIOIf BILL. hereby appropriated shall be paid to any of the persons whose names shall be so stricken from the final roll by the Secretary of the Interior." Cordially, yours, (Signed) Feankun K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. John H. Stephens, Chairman Committer on Indian Affairs, House of Representatives. Senator Owex. It has not been passed on by the House committee? Mr. Han N AX. It has not been passed on by the House committee. The Chairman. If there is anv objection? If not. it will go on the bill. I thinli that completes the bill, except the forest matter in Minne- - sota. ONEIDAS, WISCONSIN PUECIIASK 01-' CATTLE. Snator Clapp. There is an item for the purchase of pure bred dairy cattle for the Oneidas. It is as follows: For the purchase of pure bred dairy cattle for the Oneida Indian School, Wisconsin, $10,000. Mr Hannan. That never has been to the department; never has been recommended. There are members of the Oneida Indians here. They want an appropriation for the purpose of bringing up the breeding of the cattle on that reservation, or in that community. Mr. Caldwell and Mr. Cornelius are here and will explain that if the committee desires to hear them. I am sure Senator La Follette would like to have the committee hear them. Senator Clapp. This school is right in the midst of the Oneida settlement ? Mr. Hannan. Yes; this school is about 7 miles, as I recall, from Green Bay, in the heart of one of the big dairy districts of Wis- consin, and a great many of the Oneida Indians are in the dairy business, and more of them are going in every year. Senator Clapp. They are about this school? Mr. Hannan. They are all about this school. The thing is to put some pure bred cattle there and to give them the benefit of a school of that kind where they can be educated in the rearing of these cattle and bringing up the breeds. ' Senator Owen. Does this come out of their funds? Mr. Hannan. They have no funds. Mr. Caldwell. May I say a word? The Chairman. Yes. Mr. Caldwell. The Oneida Indians have not been coming before the committee because the Indian Office has been taking care of them out of separate funds. Two years ago an appropriation went on the bill for $10,000 for the Oneidas which included a new barn. The contract for the new barn has just been let, or will be let this month, $6,800. As Col. Hannan has said, it is in a great dairy country. Ihese people were allotted 25 to 45 acres. That is all the land they had. They have never been dependent upon the Govern- ment for support. There is one point which might be taken into consideration right here. There is a treaty stipulation going back to 1839, I belive, or may be earlier, that each one of the Oneidas should receive $1 a year from the Government for service rendered INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 537 m the early wars. When the Wisconsin branch of the Oneidas went West, there were 1,000 of them, and the department at that time lumped them off $1,000 a year. Since that time they have increased to 2,200 or more, and they have not been getting their $1.00 a year ; they have been only getting $1,000. They never have appealed to the Government for the difference. They never have asked any remuneration for that difference, and now they have a business com- mittee formed there that is regulating the affairs of the Oneidas, so far as they can, and they wish this appropriation for their blooded cattle. They have got a new barn and want something else. I did not put this up to Mr. Meritt because Mr. La Follette was not here and I just got to see Mr. Hannan this morning. Senator Clapp. I'hey have increased by birth largely? Mr. Caldwell. Yes, sir. Senator Clapp. They have actually increased from 1,000 to 2,000? Mr. Caldwell. Yes. They have probably cost this Government less than any other tribe of Indians. Senator 0%ven. I move the item be allowed. The Chairman. Is there any objection? The item is allowed. Senators, except the item which went over at the request of Senator Lane, the Arizona item, about the Papagos and the forestry item, I know of nothing else. What is the pleasure of the committee now. Senator Clapp. I move we take a recess until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock a. m. (Thereupon at 12.30 p. m. the committee adjourned until Thurs- day, March 2, 1916, at 10 o'clock a. m.) INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. THTJBSDAY, MARCH 2, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Lane, Johnson, Clapp, Page, and Curtis. The Chairman. ]\Ir. Commissioner, have you any matter that you wish to subinit? PAYMENT PRO RATA SHARES. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, there is one item that I find was dis- cussed in the committee but was not finally adopted. It is to be found on page 130 of the House hearings, as follows : That section two of the act approved March second, nineteen hundred and seven (Thirty-fourth Statutes at Large, page twelve hundred and twenty-one), entitled "An act providing for the allotment and distribution of Indian tribal funds," be, and the same is hereby, amended so as to read as follows : " That the pro rata share of any Indian wlio is mentally or physically in- capable of managing his or her own affairs may be withdrawn from the Treasury in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior and expended for the benefit of such Indian under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the said Secretary may prescribe." The justification for that item is found on pages 130 and 131 of the House hearings. Senator Clapp. It seems to me that either the provision or else the action which the department ought to safeguard should involve the suggestion that it should be withdrawn, as to amount, in such way that whatever might subsequently happen as to the right of parties to participate it would not leave a deficit in the fund. But, of course, you can safeguard that with your regulations. Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir ; that would be carefully safeguarded by the regulations of the Secretary. Senator Lane. I wish you would explain that. Mr. Meeitt. Under existing law. Senator Lane, we haA'e authority to pajk out the pro rata share to competent Indians and to old and decrepit Indians, but the law of 1907 has been construed so that we are without authority to pay to the incompetent able-bodied Indian, 539 540 INDIAN APPKOPBIATIOK BILL, and that Indian is very much handicapped in this way : He will have funds in the Treasury of the United States that we can not pay to him, yet he will have an allotment and he will need those funds for his own use on that allotment. It will be very beneficial to that class of Indians, and they can make good use of this money. Senator Page. When was this decision to which you have referred rendered ? Mr. Meritt. That has been the ruling of the department for several years. We have been trying to get this legislation now for two or three years. It was, I believe, on the bill last year — if I remember correctly. Senator Page. And we reported it favorably, you think ? Mr. Meeitt. If I remember correctly. It was before the committee I know last year. The Chairman. It was in the bill. Senator Page. How many Indians will this affect ? Mr. Mekitt. Probably 20,000 Indians. The Chairman. That was in the bill last year as follows : That Section two of the Act approved March two, nineteen hundred and seven (thirty -fourth Statutes at Lalrge, page twelve hundred and twenty-one), entitled "An Act providing for the allotment and distribution of Indian tribal funds," be and the same is hereby, amended so as to read as follows : "That the pro rata share of any Indian who is mentally or physically in- capable of managing his or her own affairs may be withdrawn from the Treasury in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior and expended for the benefit of such Indian under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the said Secretary may prescribe; Provided, That said funds of any Indian shall not be withdrawn from the Treasury until needed by the Indian, and upon his applica- tion, and when approved by the Secretary of the Interior." Senator Page. You have left off the last part of it. Mr._ Meritt. That proviso was added by the committee. We have no objection to that proviso being incorporated. Senator Page. I can not see that I would object to that with that proviso added. The Chairman. It will be agreed to with the proviso as in the bill last year. (I'he item was agreed to.) CORRECTION OF STATEMENT. The Chairman. Senators, there is a matter that I wish to call your attention to and advise with you upon. The Rev. Dr. Crafts, repre- senting some association, was before the committee on February 24. He is entitled, as all witnesses are, who appear to have their state- ments printed, but he has so completely changed his statement as to cause things to be said which he did not say, and has garbled his statement so that he makes himself say things that he did not say, and in addition to that he has mutilated the record so that the printer can not make it out. I will submit it for the examination of the committee. What shall we do with it ? I can not suppress a record, and I do not intend to, but the fact is the printer can not set this up. Senator Clapp. That is the matter that is so Aery much interlined ? The Chairman. Yes, sir. Senator Clapp. Why do you not have it referred to the author of it and have a typewritten copy made of it? INDIAN APPBOPBIAHON BILL. 54]^ Senator Lane That is the thing to do; Jet him make a fair copy and then send it m. ^ •' Senator Page. Is there any objection to his making this supple- mentary statement represent the views of the organization that he represents? . The Chaikman. Personally, the Chair does not care what he says but 1 do not want to be subjected to the criticism of having things appear which he did not say, or of being charged with having sup- pressed something that he did say. Senator Clapp. Why do you not refer the matter to the author and have him make a tyepwritten copy of just what he wants put in the record ? u ■^^^ ^"'^™^'^^'" '^^^®"'' '^i*'^ t^e permission of the committee, I shall have the stenographer refer it to him and have him make a typewritten statement of what he desires to say. Senator Page. And we will let that statement take the place of what he did say. Senator Lane. That will throw out the discussion that was held. Senator Clapp. But it will be his last word. Senator Lane. Submitting this as supplementary, substituting it for his statement here which was argued ? The Chairman. I presume so. That is the only way to reach it. Senator Page. If we had an argument there I can see, as you do, that it might involve a good deal of trouble. The Chairman. That is the vice of it, have we the right to elimi- nate any remarks? Senator Clapp. This is a very plain matter. It is like the text of our remarks in the Senate. A" Senator makes a speech and revises his remarks. In that speech some one has interrupted him. He must then submit his remarks to the other party, so that it will not leave anybody apparently in the air. It has to be submitted to those who participated in the discussion. Senator Lane. That is what I was going to say ought to be done. Is that item in the bill ? The Chairman. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. If that item is still here you can not close the bill until that is closed. The Chairman. We have not finally and formally passed upon the item but debate is closed ; nobody wants to be heard. I will refer the record to the stenographer. Senator Page. I would suggest that the stenographer carry out the views of Senator Clapp, by taking up the matter with Mr. Crafts, and explaining to him the difficulty under which we labor, and ask him to revise his statement so that the discussion here will appear in his remarks. Senator Johnson. We can pass the item until that statement comes in, can we not ? The Chairman. That will not be printed for a month. The record is very voluminous and the Senate has not authorized the payment of the stenographer as yet. We have proceeded with the stenographer, but I can not get the Senate to agree to employing him. I have em- ployed him because Senators have asked me to do so. Senator Johnson. I mean the report, as suggested by Senator Clapp. 542 INDIAK APPBOPKIATION BILL. The Chairman. That will not be printed for two weeks. Senator Page. Is it not possible to hasten the printing of this hearing? This hearing to me is valuable in enabling me to form correct conclusions as to how I shall vote on this bill. The Chairman. Senator, you know how I have pressed this com- mittee to the point of impoliteness, and to have all members hurry with it. I have been pressing for the printing just the same. RED LAKE (mINN.) FOREST. Senator Clapp. The Ked Lake Forest proposition has not come in, and I would suggest this : I understand that there are parties here > who want to be heard pro and con on that provision, and I suggest that we hear them. Senator Page. That is on the bill of your colleague ? Senator Clapp. Yes, sir, and if we do not get the form from the department, then I will ask to put my colleague's amendment in just as it is, with the understanding that if we can, we will later modify it so as to get together with the department. I thinli that is the only thing we can do. Senator Page. Is this a matter that will take much time ? Senator Clapp. It does not need to take much time. There are two factions here, and of course they should be heard. We owe that to them. The Chairman. May I interrupt you? Do you not remember that this is the same item that we discussed for two or three days in the committee last year? Personally, I do not want to hear a word be- cause I flatter myself I can remember what was said at that time. However, I do not want to shut other Senators off from a hearing. That is the only value of a memory, to remember what happened last year. Senator Page. My position is this: I had been informed that those favoring and those opposing, acting in conference with the Department, would give us a bill which we could perhaps vote for as a compromise measure. I am anxious to have something along the line suggested in that bill, but I do not know how far I ought to go. Senator Clapp. I understand that the two factions, and the Indian Office — the agent has been here — ^have come to an understanding which, in conference with my colleague, except as to one small mat- ter which I thinlc they will all agree upon — is satisfactory all around. But it has not come up from the Interior Department. Of course, as to any matter that has been referred to the Interior Department, you can recognize the delicacy of its acting until it is formally ap- proved. If it does not come here in time, I think the thing to do is to put the Senator's amendment on, so as to complete the bill, and see if we can not adjust these other matters between now and the time the bill comes up for passage. Senator Page. I would suggest this. Senator, that we do not put it on until we get to the end of our work so that we are not delaying the general work if Ave do not put it on. _ Senator Ci^pp. That is what I say, if we do not reach it until that time. In the meantime, however, there are two delegations here, and I do not think they will take much time. INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. 543 Senator Page. Whom do you desire to speak? benator Clapp. Mr. Head, how many of you desire to speak? Mr. Head. We have two here. There is only one on our side, benator Curtis. Let us hear one of them on each side, benator Page. How many minutes do you want? Mr. Head. It depends on how much argument there is. I shall not want more than 5 or 10 minutes. The Chairman. We will hear you now. STATEMENT OF NATHAN HEAD, ESQ., RED LAKE AGENCY, MINN. Senator Page. What is your official position, Mr. Head? Mr. Head. I am the forest officer. Senator Page. Appointed by the department, of course? Mr. Head. Yes, sir. Senator Page. You do not then represent the Indians particu- larly ? Mr. Head. I am interested in that reservation, and am a member of the reservation. Senator Page. Are your views antagonistic to those of the reser- vation generally ; that is, of the Indians on the reservation generally, or are they in accord? Mr. Head. There are certain factions here antagonizing my atti- tude in trying to do what I thought was right for the Indians. They are criticizing all my actions. The Chairman. This is a proposition to open a certain piece of land, is that it? Mr. Head. No, sir; it is not. The Chairman. What is it that you desire to speak about. Just proceed and tell us what you want. Mr. Head. First, in the beginning you know what my attitude was here last year. I will just repeat what was my position on the bill; and it is just this, that we were never given a hearing on the legislation as it was passed last year. I know there were a pile of telegrams that came in from the reservation. I asked the depart- ment that we be given a hearing to submit views upon it. Of course it developed a faction over there. A lot of people did not want any forester. I believe I was the only one in favor of having a forest reserve in that way. It was regulated under the department. Senator Lane. This is all probably very interesting, Mr. Head, and full of information, but we can not hear a word of it down here at this side of the table. The Chairman. I suggest that you speak a little louder. Mr. Head. All through the summer we tried to get the people to- gether on this, but they will not listen to the progressive faction, as we call them — to any proposition they may put up. There were some objectionable matters in there, which the other faction will agree with me if the former bill had gone through for this. There was no allotment provided on the forest surveys on the area. Now, as far as I know, that has already been eliminated ; that will be entitled to allotment because we have made improvement on it, and the other minor changes that do not amount to very much have been included in the new bill which is waiting for so long in the de- partment. There is another matter connected with it. What the 544 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. progressives want is to appropriate money to drain the western F^^^ of the reservation. There is a town site that has also been included in the bill, w,hich is entirely satisfactory to our faction. Senator Page. You say drain the reservation? Mr. Head. Drain the western part of the reservation ; yes, sir. Senator Page. You do not mean that they will extend that process so that they will remove the lake from the reservation ? Mr. Head. Not exactly that. You see, there is a great deal of swamp area on that reservation. A part of it is pretty well covered with timothy — probably the best stand of timothy east of the Rocky Mountains to-day. Senator Clapp. If the committee will direct its attention to the^ map you will see that the diminished Red Lake Reservation lies mainly on the west and south side of Red Lake. There [indicating] is the upper Red Lake and the loAver Red Lake on the south side, and up through the east thei'e is some pine timber — in fact, a very fine body of pine timber — and, of course, it is their timber. Down on the river, which forms the outlet to the lake to the west, there is a large area of very fine farm lands that will require draining. Now the plan contemplates that in the main the allotments be made in the farming lands to the west. Last winter the bill pro- hibited any allotments through the timber area. I was up there last summer and went over it in conjunction with my colleague, and it is satisfactory to make a reservation on the south side through the forest area where the particular tracts of land are better adapted to farming than to timber. That removes what was last winter a very serious objection on the part of many of the Indians. Senator Page. Now, Senator, may I ask you one more question there. Does the reservation that you propose to make here — the park — extend clear around? Senator Clapp. No; it is on the south side, up around here [in- dicating] and includes this point. Senator Lane. In this bill, what becomes of the timber? Senator Cltrtis. That is reserved. Senator Clapp. The bill provides that the mature timber shall be sold, or it may be logged by the department. The immature pine is reserved to grow so as to make a perpetual pine tract up there. Senator Lane. Then what rights are given to the whites in this matter ? Senator Clapp. Well, I can onlj' describe those as they appear in the bill pending. I do not know what the department has in mind. Senator Ctjrtis. Senator, this seems to be a bill that there is some controversy over. Why would it not be better to report it as a separate measure, or rather consider it as a separate measure, and report it as an independent bill? Senator Clapp. There is absolutely no controversy, as I under- stand it, T think I can safely say there is none. The department has put in a certain provision, and, as I understand, it has the approval of the Indian Ofiice and has gone to the Interior Department. It should have been here — I say "should," I mean we anticipated it would be here yesterday. There will be no question about the bill, but in the meantime there are two delegations here who desire to , be heard, and we are hearing Mr. Head, but I notice the com- mittee had not got a preliminary concept of the plan, so I took the liberty of interrupting him. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 545 Senator Lane. Do the Indians have the right to live on that land, or do they live all over it now everywhere ? Mr. Head. They are living all around the lake now. Senator Lane. In the timber, too? Mr. Head. There is a certain amount of timber on the lake shore, too, but not the kind of timber the department has intended to reserve. They intend to reserve the pine. The Chairman. You may proceed with your statement, Mr. Head. Mr. Head. I had nearly completed my statement. You gentlemen know the position. I was just describing the forest reserve. In that forest reserve the Indians will be allowed, according to the new plan, to take their allotments which was not provided for under the old bill. That seemed to be the only difference last year. Of course a certain number of Indians, the old tribal Indians, do not want an allotment. They never have. If you take the younger faction, you will find that they all want allotments. They have made im- provements on this land and should now be entitled to take allot- ments. Senator Curtis. Did the old Indians oppose the reservation of this forest tract? Mr. Head. Of course they have ; yes, sir. Senator Curtis. You say they oppose it? Mr. Head. They oppose it. AH the Indians are opposed to it in a way and still again they want to have the reservation remain intact. Really you may say they do not know what they do want. Senator Curtis. What is the position of your tribal council on it ? Mr. Head. The tribal progressive council is in favor of it. Senator Curtis. You say the progressive council. Have you two councils? Mr. Head. There are two, and always have been, as near as I can remember. Senator Lane. The progressives and regulars. How do they meet ? Mr. Head. It is a meeting called on notice; they are notified that the council will be held at a certain place, and of course it is up to them to make an appearance when the council is properly notified. Senator Curtis. How many acres are involved in this matter? Mr. Head. About 104,000 acres. Senator Curtis. How much of it is covered with timber ? Mr. Head. About 60,000 acres of land. Senator Curtis. What kind of timber is that? Mr. Head. Mostly what we call White Pine and Norway. Senator Curtis. I am told by Senator Nelson that this is about the last of that kind of timber left up there, at least the white pine. Mr. Head. That is very true ; yes, sir. Senator Curtis. About how many acres of this is white pine ; could you tell? . , , T X n Mr. Head. I can not exactly give the acreage, but 1 can tell you what my idea of the percentage of white pine is there. Senator Curtis. You are employed by the Government to look after the timber interests up there. Is this timber located so that you can protect it ? • 31362—16 35 546 INDIAK APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Head. Very easily, especially on the point. It is one oi the most ideal locations for a forest because we can protect it by having that point over there. We can protect it only from one side. Senator Curtis. Is there a provision in this amendment, or this proposed bill, to sell the dead and down ? Mr. Head. .There is. We do that on any foi'est reserve. Senator Cttrtis.' Have you any more trouble up there about people setting fire in order to have the dead timber? A few years ago you had a good deal of that. Mr. Head. Since we organized the fire service system in the Indian Service we have prevented a good deal of that. There would be no danger of that. Senator Cuetis. As I understand you, you favor this because you claim it will preserve the timber ; is that right ? Mr. Head. Well, we have to get things started over there ; we have to have thing adjusted so that we can go on there and do something. This matter ties up things. By right we ar» allowed to take timber claims there ■ Senator Curtis. I know that. Mr. Head. But in order to be fair with everybody we propose this proposition. Senator Curtis. You propose now to exclude any people taking any additional claims there, but this bill ratifies or confirms the selections that have already been made. Is that it? Mr. Head. Only where it is agricultural. Senator Curtis. Not where it is timber? Senator Clapp. No. Senator Curtis. What do you do with the fellows who have timber claims ? Senator Clapp. Some of those claims are within the timber area, but where it is, it is better for agriculture than timber. Under this pending bill allotments not to exceed 80 acres can be made — ^not to exceed 40 acres on the lake front. Noav my judgment is that is the protection as against fire, interspersing the forest reserve with the cultivated area. Senator Page. If I understand you correctly. Senator Clapp, you propose to make this a perpetual forest proposition by which every year under the rules ol the Forestry Service timber is cut, and should be cut, and is disposed of for the benefit of the Indians? Senator Clapp. Yes ; only probably after taking out first the im- mature timber it might be a series of years before there would be enough matured t» pay for any operation on it. Yes; that state- ment is correct. Senator Curtis. If that is all, let us hear from the other side now. Senator Clapp. Who represents the other side? STATEMENT OF ED. PRENTICE (THEOTJGH INTERPRETER BENJAMIN CASWELL). The Chairman. If this witness has to have an interpreter I will ask the interpreter one or two preliminary questions. What is your name, Mr. Interpreter? Mr. Caswell. My name is Benjamin Caswell. The Chairman. Where do you live? INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 547 Mr. Caswell. I live at Cass Lake, on the White Earth Eeserva- tion. The Chairman. I will now interrogate the witness. What is your name? Mr. Prentice. Edward Prentiss. The Chairman. Where do you live ? Mr. Prentiss. At Red Lake. The Chairman. Are you familiar with this bill introduced by Senator Nelson, of Minnesota, to create a forest reserve in Eed Lake Indian Reservation? Mr. Prentice. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Do you belong to that tribe? Mr. Prentice. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Whom do you represent here? Mr. Prentice. I represent ithe full-bloods. The Chairman. Are you opposed to the creation of this forest re- serve on the reservation now? Mr. Prentice. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, when you get to a certain point I would, as a matter of curiosity, like to have this man make his own statement in an Indian way, and have it come to us in that way. The Chairman (to the interpreter). Please tell him the Senators would prefer to have him make his speech in his own way. (The above being interpreted:) Mr. Caswell. They have it in writing. The Chairman. Well, you read it for him. Mr. Caswell. We did not put any date on it. It is as follows : To tho Senate Oommitiee on Indian Atfaibs. Gentlemen : In presenting our views on our several matters to your hon- orable committee for favorable consideration by you, we impugn no man's act, opinion, or motive with whom we may differ on the same matters presented lierein below ; our main and only object is to realize through your wisdom for our people and their posterity the greatest benefit for the greatest numoer. 1. We desire that appropriate legislation be enacted authorizing the sale of all our Red Lake Diminished Reservation pine timber, except as hereinafter indicated; that it is hereby respectfully suggested that the desired legislation be similar to what is known as the " Morris Act," under which the pine timber of Minnesota Chippewas is now being cut ; that modifications may be made so as to fit for the Red Lake Chippewas ; that the provision as to appointment of the superintendent of logging under this act be modified so as to provide that the Red Lake Chippewa council, representing a majority of the said Red Lake Chippewas, be granted the right to name or appoint their superintendent of logging, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior as to qualifi- cations and fitness of the party named by the said Red Lake Chippewa council. That a sufficient amount of the Red Lake pine timber be reserved from sale under this act, the reserved timber to be for domestic use of Red Lake Chip- pewas for permanent improvements; that the reserved timber be located in the peninsula at or near Ponemah, Minn. ; that the sufficient amount of tim- ber is to be determined by the above-named Red Lake Chippewa council, the amount of timber therein named to be subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. 2. We desire to retain our Red Lake Reservation in Minnesota as to its pres- ent boundaries in so far as the boundaries have been complied with the law governing thereto ; that the present form of governmental for our reservation remain the same. justification oe section 2. During the summer of 1889 an agreement was made by and between the Red Lake Chippewas acting for themselves and the United States Government through its authorized commissioners, of which the late Hon. H. M. Rice was 548 INDIAN APPKOPEIAXION BILL. chairmau. According to what we were made to understand at tlie tiuie,^ one of the provisions of the above-named a!greement that no allotments weie to be made on the Red Lalie Diminished Reservation for 50 years and that res- ervation would remain intact for that period and a permanent home tor our own people. The Hon. H. M. Rice said in effect, " at the end of the 50 years your children may take up allotments and do what they will with their property, tor they will then be fully able to take care of themselves and their property and live forever thereafter like white people." From that time on we have in- sisted our children attend school in order that they may properly assume the greater responsibilities of life when the 50-year period is up. to change an agreement arbitrarily.at this time by one of the parties to the agreement would seriously hamper the plans of the other. Again, in times past, the United States Government has made treaties and agreements \\ith our iieople In which and at each instance our former vast pos- sessions have been reduced until now our domain is so small that we can not, call it more than a home ; therefore, gentlemen, we plead with you, not on your might or the might that you represent, but we plead to your high sense of Jus- tice or the high sense of Justice of the Nation you represent that you disturb not " our home," for such disturbance in the end would lead to a total elimi- nation of same. Our concern in the matter may seem to you an unreasonable fear on our part, but our fears are founded on past experiences. We do not wish to take up allotments at this time for the reason that de- ceased allotments are subject to sale, and in the course of a few years mugh of our home would be in the hands of the white people and our posterity would thus be denied the rights we wish to preserve for them. We object any legislation providing the expenditure of a large sum of our trust funds, or any funds belonging to us, for drainage, for the reason that we are inexperienced on drainage ; that if large sum is appropriated and become available for expenditure, waste would be the natural result. We further object any advance or borrowed money being expended on a drain- age system in our reservation, so long as we have a property that could and will produce the necessary funds, funds 'for a reasonable and suitable system of drainage, and when we are in a better position to work on same after gaining some experience on a smaller scale which would insure us against unnecessary waste of good money 3. We desire the enactment of a law forbidding for all time any permit or lease to an outside party for camping or grazing within the boundaries of the Red Lake Diminished Reservation. 4. We respectfully ask the indulgence be accorded us by the honorable com- mittee that they construe the context of address to them and ignore any flaw of language used. Bay-mway-wat-benais (his k mark). No-DiN (his X mark). Ed. Peentice. Benjamin Caswell, Interpreter. That is signed by this delegation. Senator Curtis. Have j'ou plenty of land on that reservation for agricultural purposes without drainage? Mr. Peentice. Yes ; there is some land. Senator Cuetis. Have they enough to make allotments to each member of the tribe without draining this property? Mr. Prentice. I believe it would not go around for all of them. Senator Curtis. Have nearly all the Indians up there made their selections ? Mr. Prentice. There are a great many of those who have made their selections. A great many have not made any selections. Senator Curtis. What do you want done with that white pine timber, or what do your people want done? Mr. Prentice. We would like to have, as soon as the timber is cut the money placed in the United States Treasury. Senator Curtis. Do you not want to save enough of that timber territory reserved, so that you may always have white pine there? INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 549 Mr. Prentice. We would like to reserve some of the timber so that we could use it whenever we want to use it. Senator Curtis. Then what objection have y«u to the provision of this bill providing for the reservation of that timber ? Mr. Prentice. You mean the forest reservation? Senator Curtis. Yes. Mr. Prentice. It is my view of the bill that if it was enacted it would pass beyond our control. _ Senator Cttrtis. Have you any objection to the reservation' of the timber if the title is still retained in the tribe for future disposition ? Mr. Caswell (the interpreter). I did not catch that. Senator Curtis. Are you opposed, or would the members of the tribe be opposed, to the reservation of this timber provided the title still remained in the Indians ? Mr. Prentice. No, sir. Senator Curtis. You would not oppose that ? Mr. Prentice. No, sir. Senator Curtis.. I understand this bill of Senator Nelson's does re- serve the title in the Indians? Probably he does not know what the title does contain. Ask him if he knows what the bill contains? Mr. Caswell (the interpreter). He thought you made that remark. Senator Curtis. It was a question in the way I put it. You tell him your understanding of it. Senator Lane. Does he understand the bill ? Senator Curtis. He does not understand that it was a question. He thought I was explaining it, perhaps. Mr. Caswell. Yes, sir; he thought you were giving him informa- tion, and it required no answer. Senator Curtis. As I understand from the statement by yourself and other members, what you want is this: That this land shall be reserved so that the agreement made with you in 1889 may be kept. Mr. Prentice. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. Do you not think it would be better for the chil- dren for whom you want the land reserved for allotments, if you should hold and save this timberland, which is growing more valu- able every year, so that when they arrive, or in 50 or, maybe, 20 years from now, they would not only have allotments but valuable timber to their credit ? Mr. Prentice. -This is what I think : That a certain amount of the limber each year that stands on our reservation goes to waste. Senator Curtis. The dead and down? Mr. Prentice. The dead and down; it depreciates in value, and we believe that timber ought to be removed and the proceeds from the lumbering operations placed in the Treasury, and the money kept for the future generations. Senator Curtis.. Then,, as I understand you, you want this amend- ment or bill arranged or drawn so as to amend the Morris Act so that vou could sell the dead and down timber and also the merchantable timber — that is, the timber that was ready for market, without killing off the young timber. Mr. Prentice. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. As I understand it, under the Morris Act, they are only permitted to sell the dead and down timber; is that right? 550 INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOX BILL. Senator Clapp. No. Senator Curtis. How much can they sell? -, fnrmpr Senator Clapp. The difference between this plan and a i"^"^« plan for Leech Lake Reservation is this: That plan set asiae a buian area to remain absolutely intact. Senator Cuetis. For the propagation of timber? Senator Ci^pp. No; absolutely intact. Then it provided that the balance of the so-called forest area should be cut, reserving, first, 5 per cent, which was found insufficient, and it was subsequently made 10 per cent, just to go right through and mark the trees that were to be cut on the reservation, first reserving 5 per cent, and then it was found— and, if I may be pardoned, at the time 1 told thei^ it would be — that by going into the forest where the trees have gone up and got the sunlight and only down far enough to get the water vou then have a lot of spindling trees, and they go down in the first wind. They changed it to 10 per cent without any regard to the size of the trees, mind you. Now, this plan contemplates cut- ting whatever percentage may develop from time to time with refer- ence to maintaining the younger and more vigorous trees, even though some of them might be merchantable. That is the difference in the two plans. Senator Cuetis. The Morris Act was very carefully drawn, and one of the objects of the act was to preserve that timber, or part of it. That was the first bill of that kind that was passed by Con- gress. Senator Clapp. Well, it was carefully drawn, but like all other legislation along a developing line it had to be more or less experi- mental. Senator Curtis. I say it was the first ; that is why it was experi- mental. I know it was the first because I repoTted that bill and I refused to report it until they agreed to put a provision in that propagated that timber. Senator Clapp. At first there was a small reserve — I forget the area Senator Cuetis. I know it was the first, and naturally it would not be perfect. I know nothing about timberj but I rememlDer I reported the measure and refused to report it until the introducer of the bill, and those interested in it, would agree to a provision of that kind, and I asked the department — I think Commissioner Jones, of Wiscon- sin, was then Indian Commissioner — we asked him to have ex-perts of his department draw the provision. 1 remember that very dis- tinctly. Senator Clapp. Yes. I cautioned them at the time. If you go into any forest and cut everything out but 5 per cent of the trees you will have a lot of spindling trees reaching up for the sunlight and only going as far down as they can. Senator Page. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the witness a question. Something new has developed here to-day that is new ia my experience in Indian matters, and that is that in all tribes there are two parties, the progressives and the regulars. Will vou please state what percentagje of the tribe approve of this memorial that yon have put in here, in the shape of an answer to-day? Mr. Prentice (through the interpreter). We are in a majority as to members. '' ^ INDIAN APPBOPRIATION BILL. 551 Senator Page. They are about all full bloods, are they ( Mr. Prentice. Yes, sir ; we brought it in their name. Senator Page. Is it a large majority or barely a majority? Mr. Prentice. We brought in the names, signed by each indi- ^ idual Indian. That would determine that. Senator Page. I take it that those representing your a iews in this matter are here, and have been discussing this matter. Have you reached the conclusion that it is possible with the aid of the depart- ment to formulate a bill that A^ill be satisfactory to this branch of the tribe? Mr. Caswell (the interpreter). I did not get all of your ques- tions. Someone was whispering here. Senator Page. You have of course been talking this over among yourselves. You understand fully the terms of this bill just as well as I do, or perhaps a great deal better. Now have you reached the conclusion that with the aid of the department a bill can be formu- lated which will be fairly satisfactory to those who represent your views. You can answer that yourself. Mr. Caswell (the interpreter). Yes, sir- what they are talking about. Here is the most serious question — all of the good legislation that the party passes, a change of administration usually comes in and then it is not carried out in the way the ones who further the legislation intended it to be carried out, and that is where the Indian usually suffers. Senator Page. You feel an uncertainty about what will result from this legislation ? Mr. Caswell. Yes, sir; and I suppose that those who are re- sponsible for this bill, and those who are now in charge, who remain until that bill is carried out, what was intended — they would feel conjfident and agree to everything. Senator Curtis. In other words, Senator Page, the commission promised these Indians, according to their statement, that the con- dition up there would not be disturbed for 50 years, and in 50 years, according to their own statement here, they would have property which could be allotted to their children. They want to educate their children, and want to know at the end of 50 years that there is going to be something for those children to have. They say, suppose you allotted these lands, and the man to whom you allotted them under the law dies. Now that has all been changed since they entered upon the agreement with the Government, and they do not want the change. There are on every reservation two classes of Indians — the class that wants to retain their tribal relations and tribal property, and there is a class that wants allotment and to have their money turned over to them. The older Indians there know that. About 90 per cent of those to whom allotments are made and for whom restrictions are removed and about 90 per cent of those to whom payments are made squander the money and squander the land, and those full- blood Indians who are looking out for the future of the children want to know that they are going to have something for the children. That is about what it means. You will find that on every Indian reserva- tion in the United States. ' Senator Page. You seem to be a pretty good Indian, and 1 would like to ask you if you think this bill can be drawn in such shape as, to do justice to these Indians? 552 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. Senator Curtis. I believe it could be. I think a subcommittee could take these gentlemen and take the other faction and, together with the commissioner, draw a bill that would be satisfactory to them and would protect their rights. We all admit that the dead-and- down timber should be gotten rid of ; further, the timber that should be merchantable timber, but not to be sold before this dead and down, should be sold, under such rules and regulations as the department might prescribe, in the interest of these Indians. Then the only ques- tion to be decided for these Indians is the question of the drainage and the question of future allotments, and I think you could work that out with these Indians in the course of a day or two. These people here simply want to protect their interests. They have mucl^ to complain of on that reservation in the handling of their timber, and I know what I am talliing about. Senator Clapp. On the Eed Lake ? Senator Curtis. Yes. I do not know whether it is Red Lake, but it is Minnesota timber. The Morris bill was forced through Congress to protect these Indians — was forced through Congress. Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Curtis. The handling of the timber in Minnesota was such an. outrage and the Indians were so robbed that I put a little item on the appropriation bill prohibiting the sale of timber, and the Secre- tary stopped it. The Minnesota delegation would not introduce a measure for that purpose. I introduced the original Morris bill my- self, and members of the delegation would not speak to me for weeks • Senator Clapp. That is, you mean the House delegation? Senator Curtis. Yes ; because I interfered in their matters and the Secretary refused to sell a foot of that timber until they agreed on the terms; and at last Congressman Morris came to me and I said, "Take the bill and i-eintroduce it in your own name and we will put it through for you"; and he did so. I was appointed chairman of the subcommittee. As a result we got back all the money we had advanced to those Indians, and we have put in the Treasury to their credit about $12,000,000. Is that not correct, Mr. Commissioner ? Mr. Meeitt. It was quite a. large sum. Senator Clapp. There is no question but that prior to that time under the old dead and down provision, the Indians were getting the worst of it. The necessity of some plan by which the timber could be sold and their interests safeguarded, developed the necessity for that law. Senator Curtis. Let me tell you further what I discovered — I do not believe you were in the Senate at that time. Senator Clapp. I was not. I was when the bill was finally passed. Senator Curtis. We disco\'ered that under appointments made there the estimator of timber would go- out and estimate the timber on a piece of property that had been cut over, and then they would sell to the so-called lumberman a piece of property that was covered with valuable timber at the appraised value of the piece that had been virtually cut off. That is what we discovered and that is why that , legislation was put in. Of course that was years ago — way back in 1893, 1894, or 1895. Senator La:\e. Why not send it to a subcommittee ? INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 553 ^IZlT n''^''''- V?^ *^^*-^* ^" ^y "^"^y *° ^'^ ^01- it now or later. ^IZt ?^™^V^^* "f."?'* ""*'^ *^^ department sends a bill here. from'tt'de'irrtoenr"'' ^"" '' '°*^ ^^■""^* '^°^^ ""^^^ ^^ '--' thf "^ort Si:rup We"'* ^""""^' ^' '"■ --i^--ti- ""t^l ^fter Senator Page. I would like it to go over until I know whether or not a compromise bill can be made that will be satisfactory t- both sides. Senator Curtis. Why can not the commissioner this afternoon take the chief here and the people he represents down to his office and go over the matter with them, or have some of the men who are in the land division go over it with them and see if they can not agree upon something. ° Senator CLiVPP. I understand that these two delegations have been m conference with the Indian Office and that the details are agreed to, but having been submitted to the Secretary, the Indian Office naturally feels a delicacy about the matter. Senator Cuktis. We ought to have something that will be satis- factory to both elements. Senator Clapp. That is what I understand. Senator Cuetis. Let us wait until we get that report. Senator Clapp. I have not suggested pressing the matter until we get the report. I simply thought that we might have the two delegations appear here this morning and put in their evidence. Senator Lane. We can hear them again when the bill comes up. TUITION OF PUPILS AT KEEWATIN ACADEMY, WISCOXSIX. Senator Clapp. Mr. Chairman, some years ago we made an appro- priation for the advance tuition of students to be selected at the White Earth School, and it seems that some of those boys instead of going to school — and in fact I do not know whether they developed the school sufficiently — went to the school down near Prairie du Chiene, and they have gone on there on the strength of the appro- priation covering their expenses. The school has called my attention to the matter, and I am proposing this amendment : o For the tuition, board, books and paper, and traveling expense.? to and from their respective homes of two Chippewa boys for the school .year ending June tenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, $1,500, and for five Chippewa boys for the school year ending June tenth, nineteen hundred and sixteen, $3,250, at Kee- watin Academy, Wisconsin, incurred under the authority of the general council of the Minnesota Chippewas, said amounts to be paid upon vouchers being submitted to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and approved by the Board of Indian Education of the said general council. (The words " payable from the tribal funds " having been subse- quently added.) Senator Page. Is that not new legislation, Mr. Commissioner ? Mr. Meeitt. There was legislation in the bill two years ago, I be- lieve, to pay the tuition of certain Indian boys. Senator Page. Is there no provision in the general bill here that will permit you to take care of those boys without special legislation ? Mr. Meeitt. Not for the payment of the tuition in this school. We could take care of them in our own Indian schools. 554 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. Was there not some discussion on that item in the House hearings ? Senator Clapp. No ; it did not come up in the House. Senator Page. Senator, do you think it is a good precedent to estab- lish, to take one or two boys here and one or two boys there, and send them to some special school and ask special legislation to cover the expenses ? Senator Clapp. I think so. I think the more we can develop these people along individual lines — we are moving along experimental lines with them, of course — the better it would be. There is one thing. Senator Page, that would be taken into consideration. If you once give a young man an education nothing but his leading a life of de- bauchery that destroys the mind can rob him of that. He may be robbed under the most careful safeguards of property. Senator Page. That thought is not entirely new, Senator. Senator Clapp. I know it is not entirely new, but you asked me a question and that called it forth. Senator Page. I want to say that I am as much in favor of educat- ing the Indians as you are, but it is a, question whether we should select one or two here and send them to some special school when we have schools, for instance, at Carlisle, which you and I know is a good school — ^why we should not send them to some school which comes within the general jurisdiction of the Indian department rather than to take them out and send them to special schools? Senator Clapp. The Carlisle School is only for special purposes. These yoimg men wanted what is commonly called higher education, and they could not get that in that school. They could get education along those lines at an Indian school, of course. Some of those people who have property of their own sold their lands and went to the University of Wisconsin. Some of them to-day are practicing law in Minnesota. Senator Page. If it is good for one or two Indians, why is it not good for all of them ? Senator Clapp. Because we can not always do it for all of them. We are simply trying to do the best we can. I have made the state- ment. I can not get legislation to give every Indian boy in America a higher education, but that should not be any reasoik why here and there, perhaps under peculiar circumstances, it might not be done when they show a peculiar aptitude, not having the means themselves. Some of these boys and girls out of their own means went down to the State University. Senator Lane. How does it happen that there are only seven or these children that are not able to go to school ? Seng,tor Clapp. There are more than seven, but the appropriation was a small one and it had to be distributed in a way so as to make it go as far as possible. That is why there was only a small number. Senator Lane. Are thei'e any special appripriations allowed to any other States along the same line ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Lane. I noted when I was at Carlisle that there were more Chippewas than members of any other tribe; a very large percentage of the attendance. It spoke well for them. I wish to acknowledge that. I find them in other schools around the country. They seem to be anxious to receive education, more so than most Indians. But INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 555 why you should make a special appropriation for special schooling for certain Indians, and that for a tribe which is receiving a larger degree of education than any other tribe, when there are other tribes that need it just as badly, I do not understand. Why not make a, general bill of that kind, sending a certain number to some special trainmg school, like the Boston Technical, where they teach them trades ; it is a fine school ; you Avould be doing great good. I question whether in this shape it is worth the paper it is written on. Senator Clapp. That would be true^ as a general rule, but among them there is now and then one who chances to show special aptitude, Senator Lane. And you select those out under this provision? Senator Clapp. They were selected by the board. Now, in a small way — I do not think we should go into it in any very large way — but in a small way, I think, it is a good thing, and I want to say I have done the best I could. Senator Page. How much do you provide a year for them ? Senator Clapp. There was originally an appropriation of $4,000 a year, but it failed; I think these boys went down to this school and the school took them. The amount is not large. Senator Lane. Here are the Blackfeet Indians," for instance. There are a great number of them ; I think two-thirds of them have no school facilities ; they have no opportunity to go to school. They do not learn the English language, except as they pick it up in asso- elation with the whites. They have not enough to eat, and no schools, and not too many clothes. Senator Clapp. Why do you not then Senator Lane. I think if we have any money to spare we ought to place it where they need it the most. That is the objection ; other- ^vise, I should be glad, Senator Clapp, to give this amount. And I will say that the Blackfeet are not the only ones. There are other Indians all over the United Staates who have no school facilities — ■ hundreds of Indians and thousands of Indians, Mr. Meritt, if you please, who have not proper school facilities. Mr. Meeitt. There are about 10,000 Indians in the United States without proper school facilities. Senator Clapp. Why do you not give them such facilities? I am willing to do so. Senator Lane. Why do we not ? I do not know. Senator Clapp. I do not happen to know very much about the Blackfeet. Senator Lane. Well, I only take that as an instance. Senator Clapp. But where I am familiar with a case of this kind Jt is my duty to bring it to the attention of the committee. Senator Page. I dislike very much to have to be found opposing uny measure that looks to the better education of the Indians. I would very cheefuUy support almost any measure that Senator Lane ivould introduce for the benefit of those Indians who have no educa- tion. So I will withdraw any opposition that I may seem to have made to this item. Senator Lane. I think it is our Jirst duty to see that they have i-pportunities to earn enough to ea^, and enough to make a living, Hud to put them in the way of making a living before we begin the I igher education or the spending of money for a higher education, 556 INDIAN APPBOPRIATIOM' BILL. and for that reason only I am going to vote against it and protest it. We are not doing our full duty. STATEMENT OF J. G. MOREISON, JR. Mi\ MoERisoN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, this appropriation that was handed to Senator Clapp this morning was in accordance with a resolution passed by our general council. It means that some of our boys aspire to a higher education. The boys coming out of Carlisle, Haskell, and Flambeau, and those places have not the edu- cation they aspire to. It is idle to suppose that we are going to make farmers out of all of them, or make clerks out of all of them, or, in, fact, other pursuits. They want something different, probably, and they are qualified to take a higher course of education. On our reser- vation we have what we call a school board. This school board selects from the applicants — sometinjes a large number of applicants apply to take advantage of this so-called higher education, and we are asking, and I think we asked several times for $4,000, and at one time we asked for $5,000 for the purpose of doing this from our own money. We afe not asking The Chairman. Is this a gratuity? Mr. Morrison. No, sir ; we want it out of our own money. Senator Page. Do you mean that is in the proposed provision for this bill? Mr. Morrison. It Avas intended in that way, but was probably omitted. Senator Page. I was going to ask you if you did not think your tribe was able to do this themselves? Mr. Morrison. Yes, sir ; we want it done out of our own money. Senator Lane. If that is the case I have no objection to it. I did not understand it in that way. I desire to make this statement for the record. The Chairman. If there is any objection Senator Lane. I would like the opportunity to finish my sentence. If it is reimbursable out of their own moneys, and they desire to spend their money that way, I have no objection at all. I withdraw my objection to it. The Chairman. It will be agreed to, adding the words "payable from the tribal funds." The resolution as amended is as follows : For the tuition, boartl, boolvs and paper, and traveling expenses to and from their respective homes of two Chippewa boys for the school year ending June tenth, nineteen hundred and fifteen, $1,500, and for five Chippewa boys for the school year ending June tenth, nineteen hundred and sixteen, $3,250, at Keewatin Academy, Wisconsin, incurred under the authority of the general council of the Minnesota Ohippewas, said amount to be paid upon vouchers to be submitted to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and to be approved by the Board of Indian Education of the said general council, payable from the tribal funds. Senator Clapp. I have nothing further, except the forest Red Lake matter. The Chairman. Has any Sensftor anything further to suggest ? INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 557 KLAMATH INDIANS SALE OF LANDS. Senator Lane. Mr. Chairman, there are some Klamath Indians present who desire to be heard on some matters concerning their affairs. As I have stated on several occasions, the Klamath Indians are large property owners, and yet they are restricted in many ways. These men have come here on their own initiative. They were refused the right to come by the department. They petitioned the commissioner to be allowed to appear here in regard to the sale of their lands, and I presented the petition, but it was not granted. As I say, they hare come at .their own expense, after the tribe held a council. They have received a number of instructions from them. It is in regard, in a general way, to the handling- of their land. I do not know whether they are right or not. I am inclined to differ with them in some of their ideas, but they want you to know their condi- tion. Senator Page. There is no bill before us that this matter applies to, is there? Senator Lane. No ; the department is beginning to sell their timber lands; they are much sought after by the whites. They are im- mensely valuable, and some of the timber is overripe, and I think ought to be sold, and some of it is young and growing timber that ought not to be sold. I think the Klamaths want to sell it all and get the money. I will say for them that I think they can take care of the money just as well as the average white man. They are intelligent and shrewd. Senator Page. Are they near Crater Lake? Senator Lane. Yes, sir; it is just the other side of Crater Lake. Your reservation runs up to within 30 miles of Crater Lake, does it not? Mr. Fred Hendeicks. Twenty-one miles. Senator Page. Are you on the line that runs from Crater Lake down Medford? Mr. Hendricks. No, sir ; we are on this side of the Cascade Moun- tains. The Chairman. Senator Myers desires to call a matter in which he is interested to the attention of the committee, and if there is no objection we will suspend the consideration of this matter. CAMAS HOT SPRINGS, FLATHEAD INDIAN RESERVATION, MONT. Senator Mtbes. I would not interrupt the proceedings of the committee if it were not for the fact that I have an important hear- ing going on now in the next room. I would like to call the attention of the committee to page lOB of the calendar, being the following amendment offered by me: For the improvement and maintenance for bathing purposes of the Camas Hot Springs, near the town of Camas, on the Flathead Indian Reservation, Montana, said bathing privilege to be free to the Indians, but all other persons shall pay such fee as shall be required by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and for the employment of a caretaker at such annual salary as may be fixed by said Commissioner of Indian Affairs, $5,000. 558 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. This is an amendment to improve the Camas Hot Springs on the Flathead Indian Reservation, Mont. I will state very briefly the premises : These springs were on, and are on, the Flathead Indian Reservation. When the reservation was thrown open there was considerable area of land around them. I think a quarter section or something of that kind — ^Mr. Meritt may know the exact area reserved — reserving these springs for per- petual use of the Indians. There are a couple of little towns nearby — Camas and Hot Springs — settled by white people. Of course, the springs are patronized both by the Indians and whites. They are open and free to the public, both whites and Indians, and the water is, I think, highly beneficial. While it is said to hav^ been analyzed and have no particular medical qualities according to chemists, yet I know that people who have gone there with rheumatism have had the most wonderful cures. They are badly neglected and in a very bad condition — really filthy^— and no sani- tary care is taken of them. There is a very general desire by every- body there, both white settlers and Indians, to have them in some way taken care of and improved for the benefit of both whites and Indians. They are not nearly up to the greatest amount of good under present conditions. I favor either leasing them or appro- priating some money to improve them. If they are to be leased, of course, they are to be leased on terms set forth by the Indian Bureau and under the supervision of the Indian Bureau, and first and fore- most, for the benefit of the Indians, and I take it, on terms which would provijie forever free bathing for the Indians, but charging a fee to the whites, the fees to go to the upkeep and maintenance of the springs. If, on the other hand, they are to be improved, and they should be improved, on those conditions to maintain forever free baths to the Indians but charging a small fee to the whites, the proceeds to go to the maintenance and upkeep and the care. Now, I offer this amendment to appropriate $5,000 which at the least it would require. I know that the bureau was intending to go ahead and lease them. After offering this amendment I learned that the bureau had taken steps to lease them and has already called for bids, the bids to be opened some time this month, under the supervision of the Indian agent. It is admitted that something must be done to bring these springs to their greatest usefulness, either by leasing them or improving them. I talked to Mr. Sells about it on the street car the other day, and about the advisability or prospect of leasing them. He said he thought he would get bidders on advantageous terms and be able to go ahead and lease them, having the lessee take them and improve them for this year. There was an effort made a few years ago to lease them, but there were no bidders found who could comply with the Indian Bureau's requirements, and there were no bids put in, and they went unleased. Now, I do not know whether the bureau will be able to find bid- ders this year or not. I hope they may be. My amendment was referred to the Indian Bureau, and there is a report here reporting adversely on it, saying they were going to proceed and lease them, and for that reason it would not be necessary to make this appro- priation. INDIAN APPEOPEIATIOK BILL. 559 Now, I am willing to do this, and I make this proposition to the committee: I would like to have this amendment incorporated in the bill. It Mali be probably a month yet before this bill will be dis- posed of m the Senate, or maybe longer, and in the meantime before action on the bill m the Senate, if the effort of the Indian Bureau to lease them proves successful, if they get bidders, and if the Indian Bureau enters into a lease with some bidder, I will, of course then consent myself on the floor of the Senate to have this amendment stricken out because you could not lease and improve both. But in the event they get no bidders, and the attempt to lease is unsuccess- ful, as it was before, I would like to go ahead and have the appro- priation asked for by me allowed. There would be no sense in urging that they be leased and im- proved both. I would not consider that for a moment. There would be no object t,o be gained by it. I think leasing would really be preferable. I hope the bureau will succeed in getting bidders and lease the springs, and if that is the case, this amendment goes out, of course; there would be no sense in it then. But in the event the bureau should fail in its effort to lease them, as it did once before, on account of the bidders failing to comply with the terms, nobody being willing to take them on a lease on the terms of the bureau, then I would like to have the appropriation go through. The only objection Mr. Bells made to me when I talked to him — he made no objection to the appropriation for improvement, but he said he was intent upon leasing them, and in that event the appropria- tion would not be necessary. I said "I hope so as much as you do," and I ask that it be incorporated in the bill on this condition, that if in the meantime — the bids are to be opened in Montana early this month, or some time this month — the bureau is successful in leasing them, then I shall be the first one to get up on the floor of the Senate and ask that the amendment be stricken out ; otherwise I should like to have my amendment adopted. Now, I submit the proposition to the committee, and would like to have its judgment upon it. I will ask Mr. Meritt if that is agreeable to him ? Mr. Mebitt. That will be satisfactory to us. Senator Page. Is this a measure. Senator, that is asked by the Indians for their benefit, or is it a measure more particularly for the benefit of the whites ? Senator Myees. Both; J think it is perhaps more particularly for the whites, but both ask it. Of course, the whites are generally more actively at work on these things. Senator Page. Are the Indians prone to make use of this ? Senator Myers. Yes, sir; I spent four or five days last summer and there were Indians there in camps. Senator Page. In what way have the Indians manifested their desire for this appropriation ? Senator Myers. I did not talk directly to any of the Indians there, but asked some of the whites — I said, "Do the Indians want this?" They said, "Yes; they would like to have it put in better condition." Senator Page. This is a gratuity appropriation from the Federal Treasury, is it not ? Senator Myers. Yes, sir. They are just pools ot water now. The people have to bathe in pools of water. There are one or two 560 lIsDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. houses that have been put up there, but they do not amount to any- thmg — they are just shacks. They have no adequate facilities. Senator Page. I was wondering in what respect this differed from the- thousand and one springs or resorts that were developed in other States. Senator Myers. It is because these springs are a heritage of the Indians. They were on their reservation, and when their reserva- tion was thrown open it was put in the act throwing them open that these lands on which these springs are should be forever held for the benefit of the Indians, and should not be encroached upon; that they should not be taken away from the Indians in the opening of this reservation; that the title to these springs would never be , parted with, but held by the Government. Senator Page. The point I was trying to get at is why we were making this appropriation of money. Senator Myers. For the benefit of the Indians. If they were on land out in the open public country that the Indians have nothing to do with, I would not say anything about it. Senator Page. If the Indians want this expenditure, and they want this to be a charge upon their lands there, and it is for their benefit — Senator Myers. The object is not to make it a charge on their land. The amendment does not provide for that. Senator Page. I know it does not, but I was wondering why we should have that burden placed on the Federal Treasury. Senator Myers. If you manage it so as to take it out of the Indian funds — Senator Page. I should be willing to do that. Senator Myers. I do not think that would be fair because it is now no longer in the reservation. Most of that reservation is populated by the whites, and the whites would get just as much benefit out of it as the Indians, and I do not see why we take the Indian money in a matter in which the whites are going to get half the benefit. Senator Page. I do not my sen ; really I do not think it is an Indian matter. I think it is a white matter. Senator Myers. These springs have been reserved for the perpetual use of the Indians. They belong to the Indians, and Congress has said they will never take them away. Senator Page. I am quite willing, as far as I am concerned, that the department shall make any lease, or permit'anything to be done there that can be done for the benefit of the people surrounding those hot springs, but it seems to me it is not a proper subject for appropriation from the Federal Treasury, and I think it should be done in just the way the Commissioner suggests; that is, that some arrangement should be made to lease the springs. Senator Myers. It may be, and I hope it will be done. I prefer that, but it win fall down again as it did before. Senator Page. I suggest we let the matter rest until something can be done out there. Senator Myers. That will be next winter when we learn. They are going to open these. bids within a month, and if we do not take this conditional step now, and there is a failure of the proposition to lease, it will be this time next year before we can see what we can do. I only ask it as a conditional matter. I wiU be willing to suggest INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 561 that we may make it reimbursable out of the proceeds derived from the fees on accoimt of the springs ; whatever proceeds shall come in shall be devoted to the reimbursement of the Government, that is, fees for bathing and so on from the whites alone, and to be free to the Indians; that whatever funds come in they shall be used to reimburse the Government for this $5,000 appropriation. It may take a long time, but as long as it may take, whatever fees are taken shall go to reimburse the Government for the appropriation. I sug- gest that amendment. I offer it now, if there is no objection to it. Senator Page. You have the right to perfect your amendment, of course. The Chaikman. It will be considered in that form. Senator Myers. I want that to be made a part of my amendment. Yes; that the proceeds shall go to reimburse the Government for this appropriation, but with no charge to the Indians. Senator rAGE. I would like to ask the Commissioner to state, if he will, what precedent he has for this kind of legislation. I find that since we have commenced the consideration of this bill there have been propositions after propositions suggested here that takes money from the Federal Treasury, and I am unable to learn whether or not this is the first time that it has been done. Have we any precedent for this kind of appropriation as a gratuity appropriation, or as an appropriation from the Federal Treasury any way? Senator Myees. I think you doubtless have precedents right iu this bill. I win leave that to the commissioner. Mr. Meeitt. I know of no similar item that has been passed by Congress in connection with Indian matters, but we have a very few such springs on Indian reservations, and naturally this would be an unusual item on the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Myees. It is reimbursable in the way I have fixed it now, Senator. I ask a vote upon the amendment as it is amended, to be reimbursable. The Chaieman. Senator Myers has amended the provision relat- ing to the Camas Hot Springs to the effect that the Indians shall have the perpetual right to bathe and have the waters free; that if the springs are leased any of the avails or any of the receipts from white persons for the use of the springs shall be used in reimbursing the Government for this appropriation. Senator Myees. No ; on account of this appropriation. Leasing would be a different thing. If it is leased, the proceeds are to go to reimburse the Government. If in the meantime it can be leased before this bill passes, this amendment to go for naught. Senator Page. I am decidedly opposed to opening up any new avenues to the Federal Treasury. If there is any precedsnt for this, if it has been done in the past, Amen. The Senator from Montana confesses that it is principally a matter that apphes to the whites of that section. , • , o ^ Senator Myees. I do not remember confessing that. Senator. Senator Page. Nor would you say to me that there had been any general desire expressed on the part of the Indians that this be done. Senator Myees. I have not talked to the Indians. I am told by people there that the Indians want it done. 31362—16 86 ' J 562 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. Senator Page. Personally I would be glad to please the Senator from Montana, but when matters of this kind come up to me, I think I should draw the line on my own consicence and own judg- ment as to what I should or should not do. Senator Myers. I ask for a vote on my amendment. The question being taken on the amendment of Senator Myers, the yeas were 3 and the nays 2, as follows: Yeas, Senators Myers, Gronna, and Ashurst; nays, Senators Page and Curtis. So the amendment was agreed to. The CHAmMAN. What is the next item ? Has any Senator an item to present ? Senator Gronna. I really came up to ask what has been done with„ the appropriation for taking care of denominational schools. Has that been disposed of ? The Chairman. That has been finaUy disposed of, but it can be reconsidered. Senator Cxietis. When was the vote taken on that? The Chairman. It was just pro forma. Senator Curtis. Only three Senators were present, and I under- stood Senator Johnson wanted to be present. The Chairman. He was present and read a brief on the subject and said it was satisfactory to him. Senator Curtis. I was not here at that meeting. The Chairman. We can recur to it without any trouble. Senator Clapp. What is that, South Dakota ? The Chairman. South Dakota. Senator Gronna. Have you anything else you want to dispose of. The Chairman. Senator Lane, have you a matter ? Senator Lane. An Indian wished to be heard. The Chairman. Certainly, but let us hear Senator Pittman first. Senator Pittman. Has the report come in yet from the department upon that relief bill ? The Chairman. Yes. Senator Page. One word before you go on with this, Mr. Chairman, is it not true that we have always had the hearings with us when we have been discussing this bill on the floor of the Senate ? The Chairman. Yes. I think many Senators have the hearings before them. I always keep a copy of the hearings before me. Senator Page. It seems to me you should press the printing of these hearings so that when we take up the bill for passage on the floor of the Senate, that we may have the testimony before us, because it is impossible for a man to carry aU this in his head, and indeed four out of five, all members of the committee, have heard but very few words of these proceedings. The Chairman. Since the discussion on that subject this morning I have been assured by a gentleman present that the printer wiU use every effort to get the record out for us. Now, Senator Pittman, do you wish to be heard ? Senator Clapp. Senator Curtis, I noticed this morning that you referred to a Norris Act; what you referred to was the Morris Act, was it not ? Senator Curtis. Yes. INDIAN APPEOPKIAXION BILL. 563 HOMELESS INDIANS, SPARKS, NEV. The Chairman. The item is H. K. 10385, Calendar No. 79: For the payment of rental of private land occupied by nonreservation homeless Indians, m the vicinity of Sparks, Nevada, from May first, nineteen hundred and five, to May first, nineteen hundred and fifteen, ten years, at $360 per year; in all $3,600. Senator Pittman. I want to read the report from the Department of the Interior on this bill: Department of the Interior, Washington, February 29, 1916. My dear Senator: I am in receipt, by your reference of February 3, 1916, with request for my views thereon, of an amendment intended to be proposed by Senator Pittman to the pending Indian appropriation bill (H. R. 10385), to provide for the payment of rental of certain private lands occupied by non-reservation Indians ad- joining the town of Sparks, Nev. The amendment provides for the payment of $3,600 to cover rental for 10 years from May 1, 1915, at $360 per anmim. I ara advised by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs tnat the land in question is now occupied by a number of Washoe Indians under a lease contract at a monthly rental of $30, or $360 per annum; that the contract is for a period of one year which expires June 30, 1916; 'and that it was executed on behalf of the United States and Mr. John B. O'SulHvan, the owner of the land. Commissioner Sells also informs me that the present contract was preceded by one covering a period of two months at the same monthly rental. When the leases were approved it was known by th e department that the Indians had occupied the land for a number of years with the tacit consent of the owner, who received no compensation therefor, and this fact was taken into consideration when the rate of rental was fixed and agreed to. The field officer who recommended the approval of the contracts reports that the rate of $30 per month for a 10-year period is excessive, as the land probably could not be sold at this time for more than $200 per acre. There is nothing definite in the record as to the acreage involved or the probable value of the land at the time it was first occupied by the Indians, but I am satisfied that the sum of $3,600 is far in excess of the rental value of the land for the period mentioned. Furthermore, I do not feel that the Government should be expected to pay this or any other sum for the uss of the land prior to May 1, 1915, and for this reason I suggest that the proposed amendment be not adopted. Cordially yours, Franklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. The showing on this matter made to me was that these Indians had been occupying these lands for 10 years. I think that showing is undisputed; I do not believe it will be disputed, and, as the Secretary- says, it had the tacit consent of Mr. O'Sullivan. I think that is true. Senator Page. Is Mr. O'Sullivan the owner of these lands ? Senator Pittman. Yes; Mr. O'Sullivan owns these lands and he is a man who has been working in the interests of the Indians out there for a great many years, and he has a verv deep sympathy for them. Now this land could be utilized, it is right there m the edge of the Sparks, which is a live railroad town, and he has made many efforts to get them taken care of, to get them off of there in some way, and there have been no provisions made for taking care of those Indians. As I said when I l)rought the matter up once before there is nobody to take care of them. They just keep living there on the land, and Mr. O'Sullivan is a man who liked the Indians there and left them there. Finallv he went to the agent and said, "Do you not think there ought to be some rent paid for this ?" So they started in and paid him a two months' rent on the value of $30 a month, and then they entered 564 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. into a lease with him for a year at the same rental. Of course there is not sufficient evidence here, probably, although I have some over there, to tell whether that land would be worth $30 for the whole 10 years back. I realize there is a defect in that proposition, and I am going to offer an amendment; I am going to change this amend- ment and offer an amendment to cut that right in half, to $1,800.. I •will offer the amendment here and I think I can substantiate it on the floor of the Senate; in fact, I am satisfied I can. I would have had the substantiation here except I did not think for one moment there would be an adverse report, and I may say, with all due respect to the Secretary of the Interior, that I did not believe there would be an adverse report from the Indian Department, I was satisfied thejii had a favorable r^ort drawn on it. Senator Page. You do not think it is unwise to go back and pay a man where there has been no contract for payment and no expecta- tion for payment prior to a contract being made for the use of that land? Senator Pittman. My idea about the equity of the matter is that if this man has been taking care of those Indians out there, because there was nobody else to do so, and has done it at a loss and expense to himself, I do not feel that the Government desires to have any one man bear the burdens of something the Government should have borne many long years ago. That is my view of it. Senator Page. There are so many hundreds of cases we can see where there are attempts to approach the Treasury that I feel we are guilty of gross neg'igence in allowing some new proposition that comes up every day, some precedent established for gomg back and making raids on the Treasury, and I want to oppose them all, unless they have something that will command the respect of the depart- ment, because I think they desire to be fair to you people. Senator Pittman. While I believe in these representatives pro- tecting the Treasury of the United States, I have never believed in the protection of the United States at the loss to any individual of the United States, because I think it is much easier for 90,000,000 of people to stand the expenses than it is for one man. Senator Page. He ought not to have waited 10 or 16 years, it seems to me, and then come here asking an appropriation of this kind. Senator Pittman. I think this Government has been very lax in taking care of these very Indians who have hved 10 years on this man's land. There "is one tribe of Indians in that State who have always been at peace with the whites, and when they had their Indian wars they sided with the whites. They are intelligent, peaceable, law-abiding, industrious Indians, and yet whatever httle help they have ever had there has been from individuals Uke this man O'SulU- van, who it would seem had a big enough heart to take care of those Indians. Senator Page. It seems to me that we are establishing a new pre- cedent here after 10 years, if you come in and say, "Let us give him $3,600, because he is a good fellow." Senator Pittman. No; do not put it on the ground that he is a good fellow. A man can be a good fellow and still have rights. I simply say that this man has advanced to wards of the Govern- ment something the Government should have advanced, and it is not a question of sympathy — it is a question of the moral obligation of this Government. liNDIAJSr APPROPHIATION BILL. 565 Senator Page. This man has let those Indians occupy his land, and he has during all these years received the plaudit of his fellows, "You have been good to these Indians"; but I think when a man comes to the Federal Treasury he ought to be able to say, "I have asked for this and it has been denied me. Now I appeal to Con- gress." In this case he has not asked for this; it has run along for 10 years and we propose going back to antedate it, and I tell you I am surprised at the number of things that are coming up here that are absolutely new as far as I can discover, and I have been on this committee six or eight years. You are going to find that as the final result this committee will gain the reputation that it has mqre of graft in it than any other committee in the Senate, and I think we are perhaps coming to deserve some of that, because so many, many things that come up are new, untried, and we step in because we have a Uttle sympathy and say "Amen." Senator Pittman. This is a different viewpoint. There are two ways of looking at this proposition. It seems to me that while this is a very indutsrious committee and you have been on it a great many years. Senator Page, that a great many things are cropping up, just as this one has, that you gentlemen fail to take cognizance of. I do not know whether it is the duty of this committee to investigate about Indians, unless it is brought to their attention, but the fact remains there has been a tribe of Indians out there that have been ignored and ill-treated for years, and it seems to me some one ought to have looked out for them and found about their condition. Senator Page. Have we ever failed to take cognizance of any body of Indians who have been in such a condition as these Indians ? Senator Pittman. I am not talking atiout bringing it to your attention. I am talking about your bringing it to the attention of the Indian Department. Senator Page. Are we presumed to bring matters to the attention of the Indian Department ? Senator Pittman. I do not know. I understand that this com- mittee represents the Government. The Government should look after its wards. Senator Page. We have done that by appointing a Commissioner of Indian Affairs, who brings to our attention every matter that per- tains to the Indians or in which the welfare of the Indians is supposed to be included. Senator Page. But I do not care to go back to that other investi- gation. Senator Gronna. We had a commission; I think Senator Lane was a member of it. Were these Indians investigated ? Did you have time to look into their affairs? Senator Lane. No, we did not. I knew personally of those Indians for the reason that I was born in that country. Senator Page. I realize that my views here are not the views of the committee, so I do not want to take the time of the committee. I simply want to have the roll called that my name may appear as voting "No" on all these new propositions. The Chairman. Call the roll, Mx. Clerk, please. Senator Pittman. My amendment is $1,800 instead of |3,b00. Senator Lane. I should like to ask you. Senator, how many acres of land did they occupy? 566 INDIAISr APPBOPBIATION BILL. Senator Pittman. I do not know exactly. I have not the infor- mation here with me, but I can get it for you. It was several acres of land. Senator Lane. It was near water, I presume, and they camped on it? Senator Pittman. It is right on a stream, and they camped on it and lived there, and I know that for years Mr. O' Sullivan has been trying to induce them to get off. Senator Lane. Had they established a rancheree? Senator Pittman. Just a rancheree and no way to get them out unless they went down with force of arms and threw them out. The Chairman. These Indians had no land where they might live? Senator Pittman. They had no place on earth to live. Senator Lane. They were Indians who in the early days, when the whites went in there, followed up the settlements and cut wood and did washing for the women, and sometimes the men did chores and odd jobs around. They were harmless, good people, and unfor- tunate. No lands were ever given them, no reservation was ever formed for them. I have known of them as far back as I can re- member — the Washoe Indians. Senator Geonna. Is there any appropriation in the present biU made to take care of these Indians ? Senator Pittman. Yes; there is now. I want to say they have just been chafed from one j)lace to another, because the land around the towns has been occupied, and, as Senator Lane says, they work around these towns and the women take in washing and the men cut wood. They have no reservation, no lands, and no farms, and every now and then they will start a rancheree here and there, and then somebody comes along and chases them off, and they are chased all over that country. They have been around all over the country. - Senator Curtis. It seems to me that this ought to be defeated, be- cause it is nothing but a claim, and we refused to put a claim on the bill for Senator Gronna a few days ago because it would be subject to a point of order. This is nothing but a claim. Senator Page. I had supposed that these Indians had gone every- where and settled on everybody's land. Senator Lane. Oh, no. Senator Page. Do you mean to say there is no land in and around this town except the one piece that we have got here that those Indians have not occupied more or less the last ten years ? Senator Lane. Probably not. Senator Pittman. They have a regular camp. They get into a kind of bunch together, camp together. Senator Lane. I can answer that. They are "camping on the old camp grounds" that their ancestors camped on hundreds of years ago, and the town has come in there and they do not desert their camp ground any further than they have to. Senator Page. But somebody made the remark that they were kicked around from piUar to post. Senator Lane. Yes. Senator Page. If we pay this man $3,600 or $1,800, why may not some other man come in who has had these Indians and with the same equity demand that he receive pay ? INDIAN APPKOPHIATION BILL. 567 Senator Pittman. That is possible, too, but because somebody else has an equity is no reason to defeat this man's equity. The Chairman. The vice of it lies in the fact that the Government has never taken care of these Indians in the past. We are going to do so in the future. The Government has now got to pay the penalty for not doing its duty in that respect. Senator Page. That is something concerning which we have not one iota of probf . There has not been a statement made, there has been no witness here to tell us how much or how little those men needed and how much or how little they received. Senator Pittman. The report itself admits that these men have been living on this land several years. Senator Page. Yes. We have appropriated large sums — $200,000 or $300,000 — for the support of indigent Indians. There is nothing here to show that these Indians have never received pay from this fund. The Chaieman. We have the statement of the Senator and of his colleague both; they came before the committee and made elaborate statements. Senator Pittman. The Indian Department reported to you — I called on the department for a report on these Washoe Indians, and they reported those men had never been taken care of. Senator Page. If they have never been taken care of it is probably because they never asked, because we make an appropriation for them every year; the appropriation is for $350,000, and the language is this: For the care of destitute Indians, not otherwise provided for, $350,000. Senator Pittman. They have not been provided for. The report of the department shows that. Senator Lane. I think this is a claim which ought to go to the Claims Committee, Senator Pittman. It will go out on a point of order. Why do you not do that ? Senator Pittman. If there is going to be any objection on a point of order The Chairman. May the Senator not report it as a separate bUl? Senator Geonna. I am also on the Claims Committee and wiU see that it gets special attention. Senator Curtis. I am glad of that, because I think that is where it ought to go. Senator Pittman. If there is going to be any objections let us not vote on it at all; I will withdraw it. (Thereupon at 12.15 p. m. the committee adjourned to meet at 10.30 o'clock a. m. Friday, March 3, 1916.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. FRIDAY, MARCH 3, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjourn- ment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman), presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Pittman, Lane, Page, and Curtis. FLANDREAU SCHOOL. The Chairman. What items are to be considered this morning ? Mr. Meritt. On page 46, hue 6, an error was made in the amount allowed for school, Flandreau. The House allowed us $61,500 for the support and maintenance of a schoolhouse. Our estimates were $62,955. That is exactly $167 per capita in addition to the salary of the superintendent. We have a telegram from the superintendent calling our attention to the fact that his school would be embarassed unless we have the amount requested in our estimates. Senator Page. How much do you want ? Mr. Meeitt. We want $1,455, making a total of $62,955. The Chairman. That is agreed to in the absence of any discussion or objection. Have you any other item, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. NAVAJO RESERVATION ^HIGHWAY. Senator Curtis. I should Uke to refer to that item on page 28 in reference to the highway over the Navajo Reservation. The Chairman. Under Arizona and New Mexico ? Senator Curtis. Yes. Did we make that reimbursable or not? That is the point. The Chairman. What is the amount of it? Senator Curtis. It is $15,000, reimbursable for road across the Navajo Eeservation. The Chairman. The House agreed to $15,000 and the Senate com- ■^mittee increased it to $54,000. That was on the motion of the Senator from Colorado, Mr. Shafroth. Senator Curtis. Is that reiro.bursable ? The- Chairman. Mr. Comm.ission-er, do you .recall whether that is reimbursable or not ? 569 570 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. Mr. Meeitt. I think it is. Senator Curtis. I want to move to strike out the word "reim- bursable." The Chairman. I have a communication to that effect from some persons down there who object to the reimbursable feature of it. Is there any objection to the Senator's motion? It is carried. The clerk will strike out the proviso making it reimbursable. Senator Clapp. Senator Curtis, the report has com.e up from the Interior Department on the Red Lake matter recom.mending certain changes, and the changes are agreeable with one or two limitations that were put in, and if it is agreeable I will have the amendment put on the bin, and then Senator Nelson, who drew the original biU, can present it, and if there are any changes desired later they can be moved on the floor. Senator Page. Has there been some sort of arrangement ? Senator Clapp. It is arranged agreeably to the Department of the Interior, with certain changes. Senator Lane. Is this on the Nelson biU? Senator Clapp. Yes. Senator Page. There is a motion here to conform to the biU or to the suggestions made by the department. Senator Clapp. The motion is to substitute as an amendment the bill submitted by the departments with some amendments and modi- fications that I have made here, to which I have called the attention of the department. Mr. Meritt. We have no objection to those amendments. Senator Clapp. I move that the bill as suggested by the depart- ment and amended be substituted for the original biU. Senator Lane. To substitute it for the other and then take it up on its merits? Senator Clapp. Yes. The Chairman. Is there any discussion ? If not the motion is agreed to. Senator Poindexter has a matter he wishes to bring before the committee. OKANOGAN IRRIGATION PROJECT. Senator Poindexter. You are familiar with this matter, Mr. Meritt. It is an appropriation to buy the water rights for the Indian allot- ments in the West Okanogan Oregon irrigation project. This bill was referred to the department and gone over with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and has been approved by the department with certain changes which are entirely satisfactory to us, because they accomplish the object. The citizens have organized an irrigation district there under the laws of the State, and as is always the case it requires the contribution of aU the land under it in order to meet their obligations and they have difficulty in doing it even then. There are a number of Indian allotments that are scattered through the irrigation district, and they are not subject to assessment under the laws of the State, being in Indian allotments, consequently some arrangement has to be made with the Government, and the Indian department proposes to simply buy the water rights in order to save INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 571 paying interest on the bonds. They feel the Government ought to use its own credit and buy outright the proportionate water rights for the Indian allotments and make an arrangement with the dis- trict and the bondholders to retire a proportionate amount of the bonds. That is the entire proposition, it is an emergency matter from the side of the Indians. Of course their land is worthless unless, it gets this water, and they have no opportunity to get water except under the irrigation district works. It is a cheap project, one of the cheapest ever developed in the west, amounting to something like $63 an acre for the water. I am very much in hopes that the com- mittee wUl put it on the biU. Senator Cuktis. How many acres are there? Senator Poindexter. It requires something Hke $95,000; there are something like 1,400 acres. Senator Curtis. All occupied by Indians or farmed by them? Senator Poindexter. It is not farmed by anybody; it is not capable of being farmed untU they get water on it. Senator Curtis. Is it occupied by the Indians? Senator Poindexteb. I do not think they are living on it. Some of the Indians are wandering. It is allotted. Senator Curtis. If these rights are secured, it would be so they can Hve on it ? Senator Poindexter. Yes. Senator Curtis. Are they ready to go on it if the water is supplied them? Senator Poindexter. Yes. Senator Lane. Have they means to farm it ? Senator Poindexter. Yes; they have money coming to them. Senator Johnson. Does the $63 an acre cover the entire expense of irrigating the land ready for use ? Senator Poindexter. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. They would have to make laterals, would they not ? Senator Curtis. Has the department investigated this, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Curtis. How does the department feel on it? Mr. Meritt. The department has prepared a report on either the Senate or House bOl on this proposition and has made a few changes, but the report of the department is favorable. _ Senator Curtis. Is it such a case, is the emergency so great, that it ought to be put on the appropriation biU ? Mr. Meritt. We would be glad to see the item put on the appro- priation biU. , 1 Tl T -11 J Senator Poindexter. If the committee would hke, i will read a short letter here from the Secretary of the Interior. Senator Page. Just one word on a point raised by the Senator from South Dakota. You say this $63 an acre will cover the entire expense of putting the water on this land ? Senator Poindexter. Yes. „ ^ ^ , . j i. a . Senator Page. Does it pay for the laterals, as suggested by benatoi Lane? Senator Poindexter. Yes. 572 INDIAJSi APPEOPEIATIOJSr BILL. Senator Page. Does it put the land in condition so that it can be Used, or has there not to be a good deal of additional expense made to leyel the land so the water can be utilized 1 Senator Poindexteb. That depends on the lay of the land. Most of it is naturally level. It lays in a flat, level valley. Of course it does not include any grading that is necessary to be done, but there is very little of it that would be required, and it can be done by the owners of the land with ordinary farm implements. Senator Page. Is this measure asked for by the Indians themselves ? Senator Poindexteb. Yes. Senator Page. Do you think they approve it ? Senator Poindexteb. Yes; as far as they take an interest in it. It is difficult to get Indians to take an interest in the improvement of ' their land, but I understand they are in favor of this. As a matter of fact, they want to sell their land and they can not sell it advanta- geously without water. The Secretary says [reading] : Department of the Interior, Washington, February ^3, 1916. My Dear Senator: Consideration has been given the bill _(S. 3329), providing for the appropriation of $105,000 to purchase water rights within the West Okanogan Irrigation District and for other purposes, transmitted with your letter of January 10, 1916. The West Okanogan Valley Irrigation District is located on the north half of the former Colville Indian Reservation in the State of Washington. It is an organization for the construction and maintenance and operation of the West Okanogan Valley irrigation project, formed under the State laws, by which the owners of land within the district are required to contribute their proportionate part of the cost of irrigation works to beaeSt said land. Within its limits are approximately 1435 acres of allotted Indian lands held in trust, which by the nature of their title do not come within the provisions of the State irrigation district law. The project has not been completed, but I am advised by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs that it is expected to be completed in time for delivery of water during the coming irrigation season. The irrigation district has sold honds for the construc- tion, the amount of the bonded indebtedness covering the whole project, including the Indian lands, for which only the lands not in Indian ownership, under existing law, can be made security. This jjroject offers probably the only opportunity which will ever be offered for the acquisition of a suitable water supply for the Indian allotments at a reasonable cost, said cost under this project being_ now tentatively estimated to be $63 an acre, which IB very reasonable for land in this vicinity. It is proposed to purchase outright the (Water rights for all of the Indian allotments and to retire an equivalent amount of the bonded indebtedness of the district, so that no lien will be created against the Indian lands. Inadditiqn to the purchase price of the water rights, one year's maintenance charge would have to be paid, together with a small part of the interest charge up to the time the bonds represented by the acreage of the Indian land may be retired. 'Some saving may be effected by the appropriation of a sufficient amount of money to settle at once the obligation against the Indian lands on account of the construction? and it is believed that the sum of $95,000 will be sufficient therefor. From information furnished by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs it appears that these lands are without much value for farming purposes unless supplied with water ior irrigation; that the allotments are scattered, making a system for irrigating the Indian lands exclusively out of the question; that if arrangements are not made aa contemplated by this bill for their irrigation the only other possible means of supplying water would be by pumping, which would be a very expensive undertaking; that the lands without adequate water supply will bring only a nominal price. Whereas with water supply their additional value would be much greater than the cost of the water supply; that the Indians are under present conditions unable to properly cultivate the land, and are making very little advancement along agricultural lands; and that the only reason the alloted lands have not been included in the irrigation district ia on account of the Indian title. INDIAN APPHOPMATION BILL. 573 Action of the department should not be limited to a naked purchase of water righta but should be broadened so as to authorize the Secretary to negotiate and acquire the water rights on the best terms possible. Provision should be made for a payment of the proportionate share of the maintenance and operation charges of the irrigation district. Provifion should also be made for reimbursement of the United States, Therefore, if legislation along this line be enacted, I recommend that it be in the form of the drait herewith transmitted. Cordially yours, Franklin K. Lane, Secretary, Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, Chairman, Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. Senator Page. I should like to ask, before I forget that point there, whether there is any certainty ? You say that the Indians will avail themselves of this water. You say it is being purchased by the Federal Government as practically a gratuity appropriation ? Senator Poindextee. It is to be returned by the Federal Govern- ment from the lands when the lands are sold. The bill provides that the money wiU come back into the Indian funds. Senator Curtis. It is a charge on the land, is it not * Senator Poindextee. Yes. Senator Page. Is this taken from the Indian fund? Senator Poindextee. No; it is appropriated out of the Treasury, but it is to be returned to the Treasury when the land is sold. Senator Page. What assurance have you that the land will ever be sold or the water will ever be taken for these lands ? Senator Poindextee. The experience of the surrounding country there. When water is put on these lands in that vicinity, they be- come very valuable and are eagerly sought. The country is filling up rapidly with people. This is m the new section of the State, which is developing very fast. Senator Page. What investigation have you made to show that this $95,000 is not more than a fair and proportionate share of the total cost ? Senator Poindextee. There has been a very thorough investiga- tion m; de by the rtpresentatives of the Indian Department, and it is a matter of' common knowledge among the people in that vicinity who are developing this project that compared with the cost of irri- gation of other lands in that vicinity it is very low. Senator Page. Who signs that letter ? Senator Poindextee. The Secretary of the Interior, I ranklia K. Senator Page. That is a material change from your biU. That suggests a material change from your bill. Senator Poindextee. There are some material changes, but simply in matters that were included inadvertently. It is not a material change in the object to be accomplished. The Ciiaieman. You do not object to the changes, do you? Senator Poindextee. Not at all, they are entirely satisfactory. Senator Cuetis. In fact you asked, as I understand it, to have the department draft a substitute to your bill ? Senator Poindextee. Yes. . . ^ , , • .- Senator Page. With that substitution I have no objection. The Chaieman. The substitution, that is the bill drawn by the department, will be incorporated on the bill. 574 INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. Senator Page. The bill whicli the department proposes to substi- tute really makes this reimbursable, does it not ? Senator Poindextee. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Have you any objection to some member ot the committee reporting it favorably for the committee ? If not, wUl you report that as a separate bill. Senator Curtis ? Senator Curtis. Yes, I will report it. (Thereupon at 11 o'clock a. m., the committee adjourned to meet at 10.30 o'clock Saturday, March 4, 1916.) INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. SATURDAY, MARCH 4, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 1030 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Myers, Pittman, Lane, Johnson, Walsh, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. The Chairman. The remaining question, as lar, as the committee has any official notice, is the item in South Dakota, which was agreed to. The Senator from South Dakota read his brief on the subject and the item was agreed to. "What is the pleasure of the committee as to that item ? Senator CtiRTis. Senator Gronna stated that he wanted to be here when that item was called up, and I suggest we postpone the consideration of it until he comes. irrigation systems, BLACKFEET, FLATHEAD, AND FORT PECK INDIAN RESERVATIONS, MONT. Senator Walsh. Mr, Chairman, we have a very important matter that we must submit to the committee this morning. Senator Curtis. I move that we proceed with the consideration of the Montana item while we are waiting for Senator Gronna. The motion was agreed to. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, you wiU recall that when we were considering the Montana item the inquiry was made about the usual appropriation for the Indian reclamation project, and particularly the Flathead project, and the committee was then told — as the Montana delegation understood to be the case — that it was intended, as I understood the matter from the Indian Office, that the appro- priation should go on the sundry civil biU instead of upon the Indian appropriation bill, as had been custom^ary, and so it seemed as though this com.mittee is the proper com.mittee, in which it should be considered, and relieve the Approprition Committee from the necessity of considering the subject at all. The sundry civil biU, however is now being considered by the House committee and I am advised that the committee, or at least the chairman of the committee, 575 576 INDIAN APPEOPEIAnON BILL. takes the view that it is wholly inapplicable to that biU and absolutely refuses to permit it to be considered even in connection with thai appropriation bill. I must quite freely state to the committee that I do not know very well how to combat that view because it has always appeared to me that it is singularly appropriate to the Indian appropriation biU. Accordingly, we feel obhged to ask this committee this morning tc put the aro.endment upon the pending bill. Senator Myers came here early in the faU, some time before the session began, with the special purpose in mind of taking this matter up with the department. He is more fully advised about the progress of the matter thus far than I am. I have prepared an amendment in the language of the amendment which was incorporated in the bill of last year, which, as you will recall, failed in the closing days of the session, with modifications in respect to the sums appropriated to conform to the estimates made by the Indian Bureau and the Reclamation Bureau, and which is found in the book of estimates, and that amendment is offered for your consideration, unless indeed Senator Myers has something which he would prefer to offer. Senator Mtees. No; I have nothing to offer, Senator. I have just come in the room. I will state my knowledge of the matter to the committee. Last fall the twd representatives from Montana and I came on in October for the purpose of urging the Interior Department to make a larger estimate for the Flathead project than had ever been made before. We were all over the project last summer, and spent much time on it, and f amUiarized ourselves with it. This estimate was made up to the 15th of October, and, of course, very much of the appropriation depends upon the estimate of the department. Mr. Evans and Mr. Stout and I appeared before Sec- retary Lane about the 12th or 13th of October; Senator Walsh had not arrived, and we urged a larger estimate than had before been made at any time. Mr. Sells was there, and our delegation. Secre- tary Lane and Mr. Sells discussed the matter at much length and very freely. Secretary Lane decided to make an estimate of $750,000 for the Flathead project. That is only $100,000 more than was in the bill as it passed out of this committee last winter. The amount was $650,000, and, of course, as you know, that bill was killed in the Senate. But the Isill as it came out of this committee contained the item of $650,000 for the project. We did not get it, and Secretary Lane agreed to the item of $750,000 this year. During that confer- ence with Secretary Lane we discussed every phase of the matter. Secretary Lane suggested that the estimate should go to the House Appropriations Committee and that the appropriations should go on the sundry civil bill. He stated his reasons for it, and stated that he thought it was best to do so. Mr. Sells agreed with him, and Sec- retary Lane and Mr. Sells requested us to let it go on the sundry civil bill this year. We saw no objection to it and agreed to it. After the conference was over Mr. Evans and I halted out in the anteroom. Mr. Stout, 1 think, remained behind and talked about some other business. Mr. Evans and I consulted as to whether there was any objection to the proposition, and we decided that there was none. Senator Walsh arrived a day or two later, and as soon as he arrived INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 577 we laid the matter before him and told him what the suggestion was — to put it on the sundry civil bill, and asked him if he thought it was all right. He said it was; that he saw no objection if the Interior Department wanted it there,- any reason why it should not be done just as Mr. Evans, Mr. Stout, and I concluded. So it was decided to let it go there. The estimate was sent to that committee and we supposed all the time that the House Committee on Appropriations would handle it, and that it would go on the sundry civil bill. That was the desire of the department and we had no objection. We were simply wilUng to let it go there, supposing it would. Mr. Evans informed me yesterday that Mr. Fitzgerald, the chairman of the House Committee on Appropriations, states that it shall not go on that bill; that he would not let the committee consider it, and would not pay any attention to it, that the project would not get a nickel through that committee. Of course we are compelled to come here as in former days, and ask that it be put upon this bill. This is the original committee and I suppose really is the proper place. I was tafldng to Mr. Sells about the matter yesterday afternoon and again this morning, and he told me he had authorized Mr. Meritt to express his consent and give his views upon the matter, and I wiU ask Mr. Meritt what the department has to say about the matter. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I was in conference with Commissioner Sells this morning about this matter, and am authorized to say thab the Indian bureau has no objection to this item going on the Indian bill exactly as we estimated for it in our estimates of this year. The estimates are found on page 741 of the Book of Estimates. We would prefer the language contained in the estimates, and the amounts contained in the estmaates should be incorporated in the bill. Senator Myers. We are perfectly willing for that to be done. Senator Lane. Has there been any change in the language from last year? • • n Mr. Meritt. There are some sUght changes but it is practically the same as it was last year. I beheve in the biU last year we attempt- ed to state the amount that would be reimbursed to the Indians. This year we have general language, without naming the amount. It is difficult to state offhand the exact amount that has been taken out of the tribal funds of the Indians, and we wanted that to be a bookkeeping proposition. Senator Walsh. If you wiU read that item, Mr. Meritt, I will be glad to check it with you. Mr. Meritt. Our estimates read as follows: IRRIGATION SYSTEMS, INDIAN RESERVATIONS. Equanlization of the Cost, Irrigation Systems, Bla^kfeet, Flathead and Fort Peck Indian Reservations, Mont.: The Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby Authorized U directed to announce, at such time^i^ Ms opinion see^pro^^^^^^ oharffp for construction of irrigation systems on the Blackfeet, Flathead, and I ort reclc Indiln ReseSns in Montana, which shall be made against each acre of land irri- eable bv thr^/Btems on ea^h of said reservations. Such charges shall be aasessed Kst the lindSble by the systems on each said reservation in the proportion of Etel constmScost which each acre of such land bears to the whole area of irri- aahll l^ndTwunder On the 1st day of December after the announcement by the Itciptiw the Interior of the construction charge the allottee entryman, purchaser, or owS sSri^le land which might have been furnished water for irrigation 31362—16 37 578 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. during the whole of the preceding irrigation season, from ditches actually constructed: shall pay to the superintendent of the reservatioa where the land is located, for deposit to the credit of the United States as a reimbiirsement of the appropriations made oi to be made for construction of said irrigation systems, 5 per cent of the construction charge fixed for his land, as an initial installment, and shall pay the balance of the charge ia 15 annual installments, the first five of which shall each be 5 per cent oi the construction charge and the remainder shall each be 7 per cent of the construction charge. The first of the annual installments shall become due and payable on Decem- ber 1 of the fifth calendar year after the initial installment: Provided, That any allottee, entryman, purchaser, or owner may, if he so elects, pay the whole or any part of the construction charges within any shorter period: Provided further, That the Sec- retary of the Interior may, in his discretion, grant such extension of the time for pay- ments herein required from Indian allottees or their heirs as he nday determine proper and necessary, so long as such land remains in Indian title. That the tribal funds heretofore covered into the Treasury of the United States in partial reimbursement of appropriations made for constructing irrigation systems on said reservations shall be placed to the credit of the tribe and be available for such expenditure for the benefit of the tribe as may be made under existing law. The cost of constructing irrigation systems to irrigate the allotted lands of the Indians on these reservations shall be reim- bursed to the United States as hereinbefore provided, and no further reimbursements from the tribal funds shall be made on account of said irrigation works, except that all charges against Indian allottees or their heirs-herein authorized, unless otherwise paid, may be paid from the individual shares in the tribal funds, when the same is available for distribution, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. Irrigation systems', Blackfeet Reservation, Mont, (reimbursable): The sum of $50,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated out of any money not otherwise ap- propriated for continuing construction of the irrigation systems on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana, which shall be immediately available and remain available until expended: Provided, That the entryman upon the surplus unallotted lands to be irrigated by such systems shall, in addition to compliance with the home- stead laws, before receiving patent for the lands covered by his entry, pay the charges apportioned against such tract as herein authorized, and a failure to make any two payments when due shall render the entry subject to cancellation, with the forfeiture to the United States of all rights acqui:red under the provisions of this act, as well as of any moneys paid on account thereof. The purchaser of any Indian allotment to be irrigated by such systems, purchased upon approval of the Secretary of the Interior, before the charges against said allotment herein authorized shall have been paid, shall pay all charges remaining unpaid at the time of such purchase, and in all patents or deeds for such purchased allotments, and also in all patents in fee to allottees or their heirs issued before payment of all such charges herein authorized to be made against their allotments, there shall be expressed that there is reserved upon the lands therein described a lien for such charges, and such lien may be enforced, or, upon payment of the delinquent charges, may be released by the Secretary of the Interior. IiTigation systems, Flathead Reservation, Mont, (reimbursable): The sum of $750,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for construction of irrigation systems on the Flathead In- dian Reservation in Montana, which shall be immediately available and remain avail- able until expended: Provided, That the payments for the proportionate cost of the construction of said systems required of settlers on the surplus unallotted land by sec. 9, chapter 1495, Statutes of the United States of America, entitled "An act for the survey and allotment of lands now embraced within the limits of the Flathead Indian Reservation in the State of Montana, and the sale and disposal of all surplus lands after allotment," as amended by sec. 15 of the act of May 29, 1908 (35 Stat. L., p. 448), shall be made as herein provided: Provided further. That nothing contained in the act of May 29, 1908 (35 Stat. L., p. 444), shall be construed to jexempt the purchaser of any Indian allotment purchased prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon from any charge for construction of the irrigation system incun-ed up to the time of such purchase, except such charges as shall have accrued and become due in accordance with the public notices herein provided for, or to relieve the owners of any or all land allotted to Indians in severalty from payment of the charges herein required to be made against said land oh account of construction of the irrigation systems; and in carrying out the provisions of said section the exemption therein authorized from charges incurred against allotments purchased prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon shall be the amount of the charges or installments thereof due under public notice herein provided for up to the time of such purchase. Irrigation systems. Fort Peck Reservation, Montana (reimbursable): The sum of $100,000 be, and the same is hereby, appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for continuing construction of the irrigation systems on INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 579 the Fort Peck Indian Reservation in Montana, which shall be immediately available and remain available until expended: Provided, That the proportionate cost of the con- struction of said systems required of settlers and entrymen on the surplus unallotted UTigable land by sec. 2 of the act of May 30, 1908 (35 Stat. L., p. 558), shall be paid as herein provided: Provided further, That nothing contained in said act of May 30 1908 shall be construed to exempt the purchaser of any Indian allotment purchased prior to the expiration of the trust period thereon from any charge for construction of the irrigation system incurred up to the time of such purchase, except such charges as shall have accrued and become due in accordance with the public notices herein pro- vided for and the purchaser of any Indian allotment to be irrigated by said systems purchased upon approval of the Secretary of the Interior before the charges against said allotment herein authorized shall have been paid shall pay all charges remaining unpaid at the time of such purchase, and in all patents or deeds for such purchased allotments, and also in all patents in fee to allottees or their heirs issued before pay- ment shall have been made of all such charges herein authorized to be made against their allotments, there shall be expressed that there is reserved upon the lands therein described a lien for such charges, and such lien may be enforced, or upon payment of the delinquent charges may be released by the Secretary of the Interior. That in addition to the construction charges every allottee, entryman, purchaser, or owner shall pay to the superintendent of the reservation a maintenance and operation charge based upon the total cost of maintenance and operation of the systems on the several reservations, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to fix such main- tenance and operation charge upon such basis as shall be equitable to the owners of the irrigable land. Such charges when collected shall be available for expenditure in the maintenance and operation of the systems on the reservation where collected: Provided, That delivery of water to any tract of land may be refused on account of non- payment of any charges herein authorized, and the same may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be collected by a suit for money owed: Provided further. That the rights of the United States heretofore acquired, to water for Indian lands referred to in the foregoing provision, namely, the Blackfeet, Fort Peck, and Flathead Reserva- tion land, shall be continued in full force and effect until the Indian title to such land is extinguished. That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to prescribe such rules and regulations and issue such notices as may be necessary to carry info effect the provisions of this act, and he is hereby authorized and directed to deter- mine the area of land on each reservation which may be irrigated from constructed ditches and to determine what allowance, if any, shall be made for ditches constructed by individuals for the diversion and distribution of a partial or total water supply for allotted or surplus unallotted land: Provided, That if water be available prior to the announcement of the charge herein authorized, the Secretary of the Interior may fur- nish water to land under the systems on the said reservations, making a reasonable charge therefor, and such charges when collected may be used for construction or main- tenance of the systems through which such water shall have been furnished. The work to be done with the amounts herein appropriated for the completion of the Black- feet, Flathead, and Fort Peck projects may be done by the Reclamation Service on plans and estimates furnished by that service and approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs: Provided, That not to exceed §19,575 of applicable appropriations made for the Flathead, Blackfeet, and Fort Peck irrigation projects shall be available for the maintenance, repair, and operation of motor-propelled and horse-drawn pas- senger-carrying vehicles for official use upon the aforesaid irrigation projects: Provided further, That not to exceed $8,865 may be used for the purchase of horse-drawn pas- senger-carrying vehicles, and that not to exceed $1,500 may be used for the purchase of motor-propelled passenger-carrying vehicles. Senator Walsh. There is a reference there to the different acts. For some reason they have been crossed out here. Is there any rea- son why they should be included ? Senator Curtis. I think they should be crossed out. Mr. Meritt. The reference to the acts, yes; probably they should be crossed out. Senator Myers. I will say that I think aU these appropriations for the different Montana Indian projects should go into the bill. Mr. Fitzgerald's objection applies to all, the same as the Flathead; they are aU in the same boat. Senator Johnson. Mr. Meritt, I would hke to inquire whether that would compel all who are under the project to use the water, whether 580 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. they have made apphcation for it or not; in other words, there will be a strip of country surveyed and designated as under the ditch. Now, does it compel individual owners, or individual Indians, to use that water whether they apply for it or not, do you know? Mr. Meritt. If the land is under the irrigation project, and laterals are constructed to the allotments, I would say the land would be subject to the irrigation construction cost. Senator Walsh. You understand, Senator Johnson, that these lands have aU been allotted ? Senator Johnson. Yes. Senator Walsh. And some of the Indians have selected their lands, or some of their lands, under the project. Senator Johnson. I wanted to know whether it would compel everyone who is under that project to use that water, whether they desired it, or made application for it, or not ? Senator Walsh. You can not make them use it, of course. You can bring a horse to the water, but you can not make it drink. Senator Johnson. The point was to make them pay for it. Senator Walsh. Undoubtedly if he selects his land under the project he must pay for it. Of course, it is paid for out of the funds in the Treasury. But the idea of this bill is that it wiU be charged up against the individual Indian. Senator Myers. He knows that when he goes there and selects the lands he does it with his eyes open. Senator Johnson. Is there any land now selected under the project? Senator Myers. There is a good deal of grazing land in the Flat- head Valley that is not under this project. A man has his choice to take 160 acres, or whatever it is Senator Walsh. Three hundred and twenty acres. Senator Myers. Three hundred and twenty acres of grazing land, or 40 or 80 acres of irrigated land. He has his choice. Senator Johnson. The point I want to get at is this: Suppose a man has an allotment under the project, and these lateral ditches in the irrigation works are put in; is he compelled to pay his pro rata amount in case he did not want it ? Senator Myers. Yes; he knew that when he went there. The Indians have their choice of taking their allotments of 320 acres oi dry land or 80 acres, I believe, of irrigated land. They knew that when they made their choice, and the man who says that he wants 80 acres of irrigated land, and goes and voluntarily picks that out, he is supposed to pay the cost. Senator Lane. The only trouble is that he forfeits his right to thf water if he does not make use of it, does he not — if he does nol make use of it in a certain time ? Senator Walsh. No; there is nothing of that kind. Senator Lane. It may be appropriated ahead of him by othei people, and they make use of it, and then he fails to get it if ther( is not sufficient water. I thought beneficial use applied there at th( first dam. Senator Walsh. Undoubtedly it does. Senator Lane. And I understood somebody to say that he woul( lose title. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 581 Senator Walsh. The only way to save that is this: Of course you can not hold the water unless you use it, of course, and the only way to save that is after the project is complete — and of course that would not be for many years yet unless the appropriations run more liberaUv than they have been, going— and then the Government would have to take pains to see that the Indian does use the water with reasonable diligence. Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I desire to ask Senator Walsh a question about one word there. I have marked it. It reads — or to relieve tte owners of all land allotted to Indians in severalty from payment of the charges herein required to be made against said land on account of construction of the irrigation system. Should that not be " any" land instead of "all" land? I have not had time to study the act, but it seemed to me when Mr. Meritt read that that the word "all" should be "any." I do not know very much about it, but that was just my judgment as I heard it read. Senator Walsh. I think that the word "any" would be more appropriate, Mr. Meritt. Mr. Meritt. Why not make it "any or all land"? That would be sure to cover it. Senator Walsh. Yes. Senator Curtis. I do not know about it; I have not studied the acts, but it seemed to me when it was read that the word "ah" would be the best word there. I would like to ask either Senator Myers or Senator Walsh a questien about this matter. What reason did Mr. Fitzgerald give for not permitting this to go on the sundry civU biU ? What I want to know is, did he give any reason other than the fact that it ought to go on this bill? You will remember that he was out there and investigated these various irrigation plants. Senator Myers. He was not on this project.* He did not investi- gate any Indian project. He investigated projects on other Govern- ment land, but not Indian land. Senator Curtis. I thought they were to three or four Indian projects ? Senator Myers. No; not Indian projects. Mr. Evans had a talk with me the other day Senator Walsh. That is not quite right. Senator, because they went to the diversion dam of the Blackfeet project. Senator Myers. Yes, they did that, but they did not examine the Flathead at aU. Senator Walsh. No; but they did go there and they passed through the Fort Peck Reservation. Senator Myers. Yes. Senator Walsh. And their attention was called to the Indian project there, but they did not stop to examine it in detail. They did go to the dam at Two Medicine, which was the diversion work for the Blackfeet project. Senator Myers. As I understand, at that time they were not ex- pecting to have jurisdiction of the Indian projects, and for that reason were paying no special attention to them. Mr. Evans is present. He nad a conversation with Mr. Fitzgerald, and he can tell you what he said. What did he say, Mr. Evans ? 582 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. Mr. Evans. Mr. Chairman, he said that they had taken up the matter in a subcommittee yesterday morning — I watched the item — and he said : We will have nothing to do with it: it does not belong in this committee, and we can not assume jurisdiction and do not intend to, and you can take it where it belongs. It belongs to the Indian committee. Senator Curtis. I think he was right, that it belongs to the Indian committee, but I asked the question for the reason that I met him on the street car the other day and asked him the result of his visit to some of those projects; we did not have time to discuss it, but I understood him to say that some of them were not just what he was expecting to find. Senator Myers. He did not visit this one. Senator Curtis. I just wondered whether this was one that he visited. Senator Myers. No; it was not. Mr. Evans. That did not come up in our discussion, the merits of the project. It was just the question of where the matter should go. Senator Curtis. I would like to ask either one of the Montana Senators, if you chance to know, how that irrigation system is work- ing on those two reservations, whether or not it is a success. Senator Myers. Mr. Meritt can speak as to that. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I would say that the Flathead irriga- tion project is a success Senator Curtis. Is a success? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir, it is a success, and the Indians as well as the white people under that project wiU get full value for the money invested. I can not say so much for the irrigation system on the Blackfeet Reservation. I have been on that reservation and it is my personal opinion that it was a mistake ever to have begun that irrigation project on the Blackfeet reservation. The Government has expended already about a million dollars on that project, and the Reclamation Service has estimated that it will cost approximately three milUon dollars before the project is completed as planned by them. So far as I am concerned, I think it would be preferable if we should confine our efforts to completing that part of the project already under course of construction and not enlarge the project or spend any more money than is absolutely necessary to maintain the project when completed, according to the present plans. Senator Myers. That is what this appropriation for the Blackfeet is, is it not, to complete the present unit ? It does not go any further ? Mr. Meritt. That is our purpose. Senator Myers. Just to serve what has keen done ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Walsh. I think this explanation ought to be given with respect to the Blackfeet project. The project was started in view of the act of 1907, providing for the opening of the Blackfeet Reserva- tion, and the Indians were notified to go and take their allotments under the project. My recollection is the project contemplates the irrigation of 76,000 acres, of which about 40,000 acres have been selected by the Indians, and accordingly it was contemplated that the whites would be interspersed among them, and that the Indians, seeing their neighbors, the white people, doing very well upon their irrigated blocks, would be inspired to do likewise, and they would INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 583 at any rate begin the use and development of their irrigable allot- ments. But that act was not carried out, as has been explained to you, and it is not proposed to carry it out. We hope that it will be when the matter comes up where the two eastern townships would be, and it may be that some measure of success will attend the project there, but, the fact is as Mr. Meritt has said, that it is just so much money — I do not like to say wasted, but no substantial returns will be had from the investment at all. Senator Curtis. I am told, Mr. Meritt, that these Indians are in a deplorable condition — the Blackfeet Indians — and I would like to know whether this legislation wiU enable them in any way to better take care of themselves in the way of producing more crops or encour- aging them to go into the stock business, or something that will relieve them from their present unfortunate condition. Mr. Mekitt. This proposed legislation will not benefit the Blackfeet Indians to any great extent along industrial Hues, unless they begin farming the lands that are now irrigable on the reservation. There is only $50,000 carried in this item for the Blackfeet irrigation project, and the purpose of that item is simply to maintain the pres- ent project and to do any small additional construction work that is necessary. Senator Lane. I was going to say. Senator Curtis, that I visited that project, and while the land is susceptible of cultivation — and I saw one experimental farm on which they were raising certain classes of vegetables and some grain — the Indians have no money with which to set themselves up in farming. It would require three or four thou- sand dollars perhaps each to build their houses and barns and to fur- nish them plows and horses and harrows, and have enough left on hand to keep them until the crop came in. It is a country that is frost bitten at times, and only the hardier vegetables could be raised, and the Indian, unused to farming, if he went on the land, would have to have this capital, which he has not. Most of them have not a cent, or but a few doUars. It seems to me as though it would be impossible to make farmers of them. They never have farmed, and in that country they do not farm, and as far as the benefit to the Indian is concerned it wiU be practically nil. As to the whites, I think a good many of them wiU meet with the same experience that they have in all the western countries, that newly reclaimed land requires four or five years before it becomes profitable; we extended the time of the whites to 20 years in order to allow the land to become accustomed to water, and to establish the water level, and many of the whites have failed throughout the western country, in Nevada, in some parts of Oregon, and I presume some parts of Montana, too. So the Indian is not going to receive, as I see it, much benefit from "that irrigated land as a farming proposition. Senator Curtis. There is a general fund out of which these Indians could be assisted in developing this land for a year or more, and if the Government could loan them the money — the different members of the Indian tribes for the purpose of developing it Senator Lane. But that is a grazing country. Senator Curtis. Well, if it is a grazing country, we ought not to attempt to make a farming country out of it, and waste the Govern- ment's money or the Indian's money. 584 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Senator Walsh. That would sound perfectly sensible, Senator. The only answer to it is that it would be unanswerable. That some- thing would have to be done. Senator Cuhtis. We had a project at another place, I remember, where we spent $375,000 on it, and the more money we spent, the less good came out of it, and at last it was abandoned, and I do not know, if this is to be the policy, but that the sooner we abandon it the better. I want to do everything I can, and want this committee to help develop that country out there. I had hoped that all these irrigation systems would prove a success, but if they have not proved a success I think we are making a mistake to continue the appro- priation where we know it is a failure, and I do not think that we are justified in doing it. Senator Pittman. I do not understand what you mean by saying it is a grazing country. Senator Cuetis. I do not know anything about it. Senator Pittman. I never saw grazing country where you put water on it that it would not become an agricultural country. The distinction between grazing country in our State and agricultural country, is the distinction between water and the lack of water. If you have plenty of water there why does not this grazing country become agricultural country? Senator Walsh. Of course, wherever you can raise good grass to any extent you can raise alfalfa. Senator Pittman. I do not understand this proposition very thor- oughly, but I want to state something with regard to our State, as Senator Curtis has raised that'question. I had occasion at the time that Mr. Fitzgerald and that committee went out there, to accompany them, and they discovered a great many mistakes in our irrigation projects, and they understood that we made no attempt to remedy them. They were not looking to remedying them ; they were looking for objections and they found them. At the same time they found objections thej could have found the remedy. The same trouble that these Indians are having on the Blackf eet reservation the white men are having on reservations in our State, and that is this: The Government brings water to the land and when it gets it there it says the project is complete. They do not seem to realize that drainage is as essential to irrigation as the putting of water there. They do not seem to realize that drainage requires the leveling of the land and coordination of levels over the whole tract. For instance, we find a pond, and we have one poor man who goes there. He is a farmer, and has no money. He goes .on this ground and does the best he can. He takes in a bunch of sand dunes and levels 10 acres of land. He may give it a pitch of 3 per cent, 4 per cent, or 5 per cent, or no per cent, but he gives it a pitch. He starts the water at the upper end. It may go down and cross it too readily and waste a lot of water. Then he has a pond at the lower end. The next fellow below him, probably half a mile from there, starts a 10-acre patch. He has a pond above him and a pond below him. You are not only wasting water, but you are makiag a swamp out of a country that was once a desert; you are raising the water level from 15 or 20 feet beloW up until it is sodden country, with water standing 2 or 3 feet below and burning out everything in it. ISTDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 585 The whole trouble about the thing is that we have had engineers who are competent to put water on land, given control of the land after it got there, but who knew nothing on earth about farming or had the slightest idea of it, and they have thrown a lot of people, on land that was not fit for cultivation by reason of the condition that I have just mentioned. Senator Curtis. That is, they were not properly prepared for it ? Senator PiTTMAN. Yes; and yet it is wrong to say that these things are failures. No private company would call them a failure. They would say, "we have invested so many milhon dollars on this and we can not afford to take our loss. Can we remedy it?" And by investing probably 15 or 20 per cent — that is, an arbitrary amount — you would make a business proposition of it and a success out of it for the people who are engaged m it, and a success for the Govern- ment. Senator Cuktis. That is what I want to know from the Com- missioner, if this additional sum is given is it the purpose, and can the Commissioner, or can the Bureau of Indian Affairs, so remedy the situation so as to make it profitable for the Indians on the reser- vation, or is the money going to waste or misuse as it has been in the past? Mr. Meritt. This $50,000 that we are asking for is to be used very largely to maintain the present project that has been con- structed. 1 am not sure that the Indians will make very much use of this irrigation project under present conditions on the Blackfeet Keservation. The Blackfeet Reservation, you wiU observe from the map, borders on Canada and the climate there is not favorable to agriculture because of the early frost. If this project were coming up for the first time, so far as I am concerned, I should advise against the investment of a single dollar on the Blackfeet Reservation for irrigation purposes because the reservation is primarily a grazing proposition and is more valuable for grazing purposes than for agri- cultural purposes. Senator Pittman. Then, as I understand you, as an agricultural proposition it would not justify the investment, that is, the amount of money required to make the subject an agricultural industry, and that the return would not justify it ? Mr. Meeitt. Not with the industry as shown by the Blackfeet Indians. If it were purely a white man's project, it might be made a success, but we must reahze that the Indians do not come up to the white man's standard in industry and effort. Senator Cuetis. Then why would it not be a better plan to sell the Indian allotments there for what they are worth and put these Indians on another part of the reservation and put them in the cattle business or something of that kind — somethmg they will do ? Mr. Meritt. We have invested in a small tribal herd on that res- ervation within the last two years and are asking for an appropriation of $100,000 in the biU to buy cattle for the Blackfeet Indians. It has been suggested by the Representatives and Senators in Congress from the State of Montana that a part of the reservation be thrown open and this irrigable land that has not been allotted be sold to the •raite people so they may assume their pro rata share of the burden of this irrigation project and also to determine whether or not that 586 INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. land can be made a profitable agricultural land under that irrigation project. Senator Pittman. The Senators and Representatives from that State would be better capable of answering that question than myself. Senator Walsh. I would like to say a word about that, because I want to dissipate some notions concerning that matter that may possibly find lodgment in the minds of members of this committee from what has been said. Reference has been made to the fact that it borders on the Canadian line. That is a fact; it does border on the Canadian line, but simi- larly 600 miles of our State border on the Canadian line. The whole MUk River Valley borders on the Canadian line. It occupies the same relative position as does a portion of the State of Senator Gronna. It borders on the Canadian line. The fact that it borders on the Canadian line is nothing. They are raising wheat in Canada in great quantities, 500 miles north of the boundary line — certainly 300 miles north of the boundary line. So that is a matter of no consequence whatever Now the Rocky Mountains form the western boundary of the reservation. That is the line between the Glacier National Park and the reservation is right at the foot of the mountains, and of course as you go west the land continually rises, so that the elevation there is, I should think, from 4,500 to 5,000 feet, and where this irriga- tion project is it is not to exceed 4,500 feet. We are raising 70 bushels of oats to the acre on land that is 5,600 feet high in the State of Montana. Senator Cuetis. Then in your judgment all that is necessary to make this a good agricultural country is to get water on it and farm it systematically or properly. Senator Walsh. Yes; farms and water. I would hate to have anybody believe for a single moment that there was any want of wisdom in the initiation oi that irrigation enterprise, and I do not think that the development of the country has demonstrated at all that it was wrong. But you will bear in mind that the irrigation enterprise was initiated in view of what was then the settled policy of the Government to open this reservation and allot lands to the Indians. It was due to that condition of affairs that started it, and I have not the slightest doubt in the world that a good American farmer could "go anywhere on the land under that irrigation project and do as well as they could anywhere in the State of Montana, or on any irrigation project. Of course they will have to farm accord- ingly. You can not raise on that land perhaps what they do on the Huntley project, which is at an elevation perhaps of 3,000 feet, and perhaps 100 or 150 miles south of this. You would have to raise the farm products that are appropriate to that particular region, and if you saw the grass growing there as high as this table — wild grass on the open prairie as high as this table — as I did last summer, and for 75 or 100 miles west of this portion of the land — and bear in mind that that is raising all the time — you would appreciate that that land would grow grain under cultivation. Of course you would have to alternate oats and alfalfa. That is what they do on the Beaver Gap. They grow alfalfa for three or four years and then plow it up and put oats in. It will mature oats. Oats is a splendid crop, a splendid paying crop in our State at any time. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 587 Senator Curtis. How many crops of alfalfa do you have in a year ? Senator Walsh. We have three down there, but you could get two easily on this Blackfeet Reservation. It is naturally a grass country. Forage crops, I am satisfied, will grow there. But while I have said this I feel obliged to say to the members of the committee that as an Indian irrigation project, my humble opinion about the matter is that the investment will never make its returns. Whenever in the course of time the reservation is opened, and so mush of it as the Indians do not take is taken up by white men and they contribute toward reimbursing the Government for the expenditure, and the Indian will have an opportimity to lease his irrigated allotment to other white men — and I have no doubt in the world that they will be rather greedily taken up — whenever that time comes, then the Gov- ernment may hope to be reimbursed, at least a part, for this great expenditure. And let me say this much too in connection with that. You under- stand that the Blackfeet project is an exceedingly inexpensive project, that is to say, the number of acres "covered by the expenditure IS comparatively httle. Senator Pittman. How many acres are there ? Senator Walsh. I have forgotten the exact number. Senator Pittman. Can you tell us, Mr. Meritti Mr. Mekitt. Under the completed project there will be 122,000 acres. It will cost about $30 per acre to irrigate it. Senator Walsh. Now that is the situation of affairs, and I merely suggest that the small amount that is necessary in order to keep the work going so that. the water rights shall be preserved ought to be made. I am not quite sure they would be lost under the decision in the Milk River case. I am disposed to beheve they would be pre- served anyway, whether the work went on or not, but it is open to a serious question, and I do not think it would be a good business proposition to allow the plant to deteriorate. Senator Pittman. Was this reservation created before or after the admission of Montana as a State ? Senator Walsh. Oh, it was before. The whole northern part of our State was originally a reservation, and in 1888 it was broken up into the Fort Peck, Fort Belknap and Blackfeet, and the intervening area was opened to settlement. But the entire reservation dates way back to the early days. Senator Pittman. I do not know that it is material to the legal question, but it is a question that I have in mind — that is, it elimi- nates a question I have in mind. Senator Lane. I would Uke to confirm what Senator Walsh has said about that matter. I think they can and will raise alfalfa in the lower part of it more particularly. In fact, I saw alfalfa growing on it. But as an Indian proposition, a proposition for the Indians, I do not think the expenditure of the money wiU greatly benefit them. I think perhaps $50,000 ought to be appropriated to keep the work that has already been done in shape. I do not question that, because there has been a great deal of money expended there. The land will raise a few of the hardier vegetables, and with the white men taking hold of it, they would probably make a living off of it, if they raised alfalfa, not as general farming land. 588 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. These Indians are stockmen; they always were horsemen. They lived off of the buffalo in the old days — I have known them for 50 years — and they are not farmers. It is very hard to make farmers of them, and they have not the means to enter into farming even they wanted to, and. I do not know that they would succeed if they did so; I would not hke to tackle it, but at any rate they ought to be taken care of, and if the lands are held for them as a permanent grazing groimd with alfalfa in addition to the rest on the lowland I think this expenditure would probably prove profitable to them, if you had somebody to take charge of that end of it, and then allow them to graze their cattle in the higher range in the summer, and drive down to the feeding ground in the winter, as we do in all of our States; you have lots of farm land in Montana, and are raising crops on thousands* of acres, but you can not raise regular farm crops in that country— I have been all over it. You state that you have plenty of grass, plenty of high grass — is it rye ? Senator Walsh. It is blue-stem grass. Senator Pittman. This provision in this biU is to preserve what- ever they have for future determination, is it not — this appropria- tion of $50,000 1 Mr. Meritt. That is true. Senator Pittman. I think that whatever right they have should be preserved, of course. Senator Gronna. I think there is a great deal of force in what Senator Walsh has said, that although this land is up near the Canadian line and is of a high elevation, that it would be possible to frow crops on it in the future, because that has been demonstrated efore upon lands lying much farther north than those, and which are now being farmed and are being successfully farmed. But, Mr. Chairman, what has troubled me more than anything else in this particular project is this: A large portion of this land, as I under- stand it, is owned by Indians. They have taken their allotments there. None of them, however, are equipped with horses or farm machinery which is needed to enter into agriculture, even on a small scale. In addition to that these people are not educated to the in- dustry, or in the industry of farming. It is not sufficient to say that if we give an Indian agricultural implements and horses he can be- come a farmer. We have too many white men who are not compe- tent to farm, and we should not expect the Indian, who never has farmed, to be able to go into an industry which requires a great deal of experience and, in fact, science. As I have said, I do not doubt for a moment but that this particular land will some day bfecome an agricultural country and that it wiU be possible under an irrigation system to make it good agricultural land. But at the present time a large portion of it is owned by the Indians. Senator Walsh. Altogether, Senator. Senator Gronna. Altogether, yes. As I understand it, the proj- ect wUl, of course, benefit the white people who have also taken up land — am I mistaken about that? Senator Walsh. Oh, no ; we are looking to have the eastern end opened, but at the present time Senator Gronna. They are altogether Indian lands ? Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 589 ■ Senator Gronna. Now would it not be better, as Senator Curtis bas suggested, that we agree, according to the statement made by the assistant commissioner, and a statement that perhaps can be made or would be made here by you who represents the Indians on this particular reservation— that these Indians are not farmers, to use the common term, and why should we take the Indians' money, say $50,000, It IS not much, but in the aggregate when these amounts are all summed up they amount to a great deal. Senator Pittman. Will you allow me to interrupt you iust a second » Senator Geonna. Yes. Senator Pittman. If it is necessary to spend $50,000 to preserve their water rights under the theory of the user, we ought to preserve the property, whatever they have now, and would it not be a good idea to spend their money as you would your own money if it was neces- sary to protect valuable property ? Senator Geonna. That is true, providing it is absolutely necessary to preserve their rights, but would not $10,000 be just as good to pro- tect their rights as $50,000 or $100,000? Senator Pittman. That depends upon the facts. I do not know about that. Senator Geonna. Yes, that depends upon the facts, of course. But what I intended to say was that we should not do anything that does not directly benefit the Indians. I understand that much of this land is coal land — I may be entirely mistaken about that . Senator Walsh. Coal 1 Senator Geonna. Coal. That much of these lands are really coal lands; lands that are underlaid with coal mines. Senator Walsh. No ; I think not. I think you are mistaken about that. In the southeastern part of the reservation, just across the Birch Creek, coal has been opened and there is some coal there, but I think it would be an error to say that there is any considerable quantity of that land that has coal under it. Senator Geonna. I want to say, in conclusion, to this committee that I am a neighbor of Montana. I do not wish by my vote to do anything that would cripple the industries of that great State. I would not by my vote do anything that would cripple the industry that is being carried on for these Indians, but I do feel that if the project as it has been started is considered to be of no benefit to the Indians unless it should be for the purpose of maintaining or keep- ing in statu quo what has been done, it seems to me it would be entirely a waste of money to make a further appropriation to extend this irrigation project when it is admitted that it can serve no good purpose as far as the Indians are concerned. I think it is possible, and I think it is the duty of the Indian Committee and of the Indian Bureau to take this question in hand and solve it, or help solve it for the Indians. If the Indians who live there are competent to farm, then let us give them farming implements and horses and stock to carry on farming operations. Senator Pittman. I thoroughly agree with you. Senator Gkonna. The mere fact of giving Indians water on this land is not going to help them. Why, Mr. Chairman, the intelligent white men in my State, in connection with an irrigation project near Williston, have not made a success, and I am exceedingly sorry to 590 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. to have to admit it — they have not made a success, as I think Senator' Walsh and Senator Myers know, for they have investigated that project. They have not made a success out of the irrigation project at WiHiston, I am sorry to- say. Now, how can we expect those Indians who are unfamiliar with farming operations to be benefited by appropriating a great deal of money for the purpose of building expensive irrigation projects, and then to say to them, "Go ahead and live upon that" ? It seems to me impossible. Senator Pittman. You- are absolutely right. Senator Walsh. All of that is very pursuasive and sound. Senator, but you confront the situation that you have a million dollars in there. Now what are you going to do? Let me remark, gentle^ men, that there are quite a number of Blackfeet Indians here — two gentlemen, particularly Mr. Clark and Mr. Hamilton, who are very intelligent and well informed men and some member of the com- mittee might feel that either of those gentlemen could enlighten you upon the matter. Senator Gronna. Of course I have all the confidence in the world in the men who are representing Montana in the Senate, both Sen- ator Walsh and Senator Myers. As I have stated, I would not want to do anything that would in any way cripple this project, but I feel if we do appropriate money for irrigation, there should go along with it an appropriation of money to the end that these Indians should be provided with agricultural implements and horses. Senator Curtis. And seed. Senator Gronna. Yes. Senator Pittman. As I stated a while ago, I have visited a number of projects in our State some of which have been charged to be a failure, and I imagine that that charge might be substantiated to date, and yet there are farms on some of those projects that are extremely successful and others that are absolute failures, and there is reason for it — there are two reasons: Some of them are not farmers, as Senator Gronna has said, and do not know how to farm; and another reason is that they are so poor they can never get a proper start. There is something of a private irrigation scheme in our State' and it has made remarkable success. It is settled by a lot of Germans They^have about 22,000 acres in cultivation. A few years ago it was practically all sagebrush land. They have worked on the cooper- ative scheme there, the men who owned the land originally Senator Walsh. Is not this talk rather unneutral ? Senator Pittman. Probably it is. I want to say, however, Sena- tor Walsh, that I have just as high a regard for the Germans as I have for the Irish. [Laughter.] But this man who owned that land in- dividually sold it out in small tracts on the same kind of payment that the Government does, but in addition to that he loaned these men money for seeds and implements and carried them for a year or two, and every one of them is successful to-day. The Government never does that. It puts water there but it does not level the land or drain the land, but puts the farmer on there in an absolutely hopeless condition, and then they are charged with being an absolute failure. That is the whole trouble. If we wefe discussing an irrigation project for the Blackfeet Indians to-day, I think we would have to go more deeply into this appropriation; but, as I understand it, it is INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 591 simply a question to preserve the water rights for them now. I do not know how much is intended for that. The department estimates it at $50,000. If there is any discussion as to now much there is needed to preserve that right, that is another question. Senator Gronna. I was going to ask, What is the smallest amount you could get along with in order to save the water rights that now exist ? Senator Pittman. And existing ditches. Senator Gronna. Yes; and existing ditches. I know that Sena- tor Walsh has given that attention. Senator W^alsh. I feel that I am very generally informed about the project, but I could not venture an opinion about that matter. I would be obliged to rely altogether on the reclamation ofBcers. Senator Johnson. I would'like to ask Senator Myers Senator Walsh. If you will pardon me, if you go into that at aU, I would suggest that some member of the reclamation force be called to state what the money is to be used for, and what they propose to do and why they need that amount. Senator Johnson. The only question I desired to ask was this : I wanted to ask Senator Myers or Senator Walsh if they did not think that the real solution of profitable irrigation for either the white men or the Indians is in getting the ground properly leveled to start with so that the water can be distributed over it in a success- ful manner ? Senator Walsh. Well, of course, there is very much indeed to that, Senator. I have seen as much as $50 an acre, I should think, expended in the State of California in leveling land in order to make it available for irrigation purposes. I see down in San Joaquin Val- ley, down in Kings County, there are great fruit orchards and they are already leveled off like a billiard table. Much of the same sys- tem prevails in the Sacramento Valley. They are on benches, going up by terraces, each terrace being practically level, with just a slight incline; but, on the other hand, I must say that very little of that is done in our State. In the Yellowstone Valley, where land runs to $250 an acre — sugar-beet land — considerable money is expended in leveling, but in a general grain and alfalfa country the land usually lies fairly level. I do not remember in any of the ranching enter- prises, with which I am connected — and I have been in the past connected with three or four or haK a dozen — of the expenditin-e of any considerable amount of money in leveling, and I do not think they do much of that in the Bitter Root country, do they. Senator Myers ? Senator Myers. No ; they do not go into scientific and minute lev- eling. I think what Senator Johnson says is correct, to this extent, that you first have to get the land in such condition that you can get water on it; otherwise the water is of no good. Senator Walsh. I know of some large fruit-farm projects in Bitter Eoot Valley, where they prepared the land and sold it to the people in the East chiefly lor fruit-farming purposes, in blocks of 5 and 10 acres. They spent quite a great deal of money in levehng, but for general farm purposes there is not much money spent in our State in that work. . , , ,. , i • Senator Pittman. There is no question but that leveling and drain- ing are just as essential as putting the water on the ground, and that 592 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. has been the cause of most of our failures — the lack of recognition of that principle. Senator Page. Senator, we had last year, you will remember, some discussion as to whether the Indians were protected in their water rights in case we should expend these large sums for irrigation proj- ects, or whether under the law of your State the first beneficial user could take it away from them ? Senator Walsh. Yes. Senator Page. And there was a discussion of the Winters decision, and that was, if I remember aright, a Western State question. They rather inferred that the decision was wrong and should be overturned; that the laws of the State certainly would be what would govern, there. Has there been anything new that has occurred with respect to that « Senator Walsh. No, sir; the situation is just the same. Senator, except that I might say that I called your attention at that time to the fact that under the laws of our State when one takes out a water appropriation, he is obliged to commence work upon the diversion within 60 days and to complete it with reasonable diligence, but that we had legislated particularly to take care of the Government projects and passed an act giving the United States 5 years within which to commence, instead of 60 days that we give to an ordinary citizen. Senator Page. But you still proceed on the supposition that your State can control that matter despite the Winters decision ? Senator Walsh. No, Senator; there is no disposition on the part of any of the people of the State of Montana to secede nor to set at defiance the Federal Government. Those laws that I speak of are general laws applicable to everything in the State. The appropria- tion of water anywhere under irrigation projects have no reference to Indian affairs or Indian reservations except as they apply to every- thing in the State. There is nothing in the Winters case that revolu- tionizes the water laws of the State of Montana. Senator Page. But I think the decision in the Winter case was substantially this, that there was a treaty which antedated the admis- sion of Montana in the Union Senator Walsh. Yes. Senator Page. And that by inference, at least, in that treaty the Indians were to have from that lake from which they drew off water enough water to irrigate their lands. Senator Walsh. You have stated it with substantial accuracy, Senator Sentor Page. Now you remember that Senator Sutherland and Senator Smith of Arizona, I think, and several other Senators almost questioned the validity of that decision ? Senator Walsh. Yes, Senator; I did not quite finish what I was going to say. Senator Page. I beg your pardon. Senator Walsh. As indicative of the spirit of our people about the matter, about giving the General Government in connection with these 1)rojects every reasonable concession, an effort was made before the egislature a year ago to repeal that act, and upon hearing about it I wired the governor at once, urging him to see that the effort did not materialize, and a bill which was introduced for the purpose of repealing that act was withdrawn. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 593 Now let me remark, Senator, that nothing that our State can do can by any possibility take away from the Indians any rights which they acquire by virtue of any treaty. I think you wUI appreciate iii&t. No matter how much disposed we were to do it, we could not do it. Now, what you mean is that although the Supreme Court of the United States decided in the Winters case that by virtue of that treaty the Indians were entitled to priority of right to the water of the Milk Eiver as against the people who appropriated the water, and it was not necessary for the Indians to make any appropriation, they had their priority of right under and by virtue of that treaty. Now, those gentlemen still insist that the decision of the Supreme Court was wrong, that the only way that its effects can ever be obviated is by the Supreme Court reversing itself if a case should at any time in the future come before that body, or by some legislation that we pass taking away the right which the Indians have. The amendment which is before you expressly provides that whatever rights they have under the treaty and under that decision shall be preserved to them. Senator Page. Now, one more question, Senator, and I think I win be, through. You will remember that last year in our hearings here touching this great appropriation, we were met by the assertion from the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Mr. Meritt, or the assurance that the Indians' rights had been safeguarded by legis- lation in this bill. When that feature of the bill was brought up in the Senate there was, almost as one man, a, protest from nearly all the mountain States against any legislation like that proposed by Mr. Meritt to safeguard the Indians' money ; am I right about that ? Senator Walsh. Why, Senator, you are hardly right. The fact is that Senator Clark and Senator Fall moved to strike from the bill certain provisions in relation to that subject. I had assured you however, that both Senator Myers and myself would endeavor to see, so far as we could, that the bOl was passed in the exact language as it came from the committee. I think you wUl bear witness that we redeemed that promise. Senator Page. I guess that is right. Senator Walsh. Now, bear in mind Senator Page. But your friends did not stand by you. Senator Walsh. Wait a moment Senator Pittman. Some of them did; I did, for instance, and I am a man from the West. Senator Walsh. The amendment proposed by Senator Clark and Senator Fall was overwhelmingly defeated La the Senate, and we re- quested our friends to do what they could to defeat it. They aU voted against it. Of course I can not control Senator Fall and I can not control Senator Clark. I am sure. Senator Page, that you will feel that both Senator Myers and myself acted in perfect good faith. Senator Page. I am not raising any question about that. I am simply saying that the safeguard's provision was absolutely nullified by the action on the floor of the Senate. Senator Walsh. No; not at aU; you are absolutely in error there. Their amendment was defeated and the provision remained in the bill just as it came from the committee. Senator Fall's amendment was defeated. 31362—16 38 594 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. Senator Page. Then I simply plead guilty of a lack of memory. The Chairman. Is there any further discussion ? The question is on the amendment proposed by the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs. • Senator IjANE. Is $50,000 absolutely necessary to protect this project ? Mr. Meritt. We feel that that amount is necessary. This project has been constructed by the Keclamation Service, and they have submitted this as the minimiim amount that they can get along with. Senator Lane. That is the general Keclamation Service ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Lane. They will take care of it for that? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; these three projects were initiated and are being constructed by the Reclamation Service. Senator Lane. Can you not take care of it with the help of the Indians yourself and with the expenditure of less money? Can you not take it over and put on a lot of Indians who need work and some of whom are destitute ? Mr. Meritt. The Reclamation Service has given the Indians employment on all of these projects. Senator Lane. But could you not take it over and take care of it for less money, the money to be expended almost entirely on the reservation — ^money of the Indians ? Senator Walsh. I think, Senator Lane, that was tried once and they gave it up. Senator Pittman. They have not the machinery to carry out the work. Senator Lane. Oh, yes, they have machinery. Mr. Mekitt. The Indian Bureau has heretofore agreed that the Reclamation Service complete these projects inssmuch as they were initiated by that service. They have the machinery and are better' equipped than we are. Senator Page. Do they all stand on the same basis ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. If it passes one it would pass the other. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we feel if the approprisrtion here asked for is passed we should be sure to get the legislation that accompanies this estimate. Senator Lane. Does this include the Flathead? The Chairman. All of it. Senator Lane. That is an entirely different story. The Chairman. It is treated as one amendment, is it not, Mr. Meritt ? It is treated as an entirety, is it not ? Mr. Meritt. It is one amendment. Senator Lane. The Flathead is a different reservation. The Chairman. But it comes to us as an entirety. Senator Lane. There is a different story to that. As to the Flat- head item there are some facts that I would like to submit to this committee for its consideration. These lands, as I understand, are better lands than the Blackfeet lands; that is conceded. Senator Walsh. For agricultural purposes. Senator Lane. Yes, and they have a large acreage. The Flathead Indians are many of them destitute, too, and there is no dpubt also but what they whI probably fail to make use of their allotted lands INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 595 in fully half of the cases— I do not know what percentacre— but there IS no connection betwe)n that an:t this. I think this land ought to be opened to the whitas I am quite in harmony with sinator Walsh— though I do not thmk he quite b3lieTe3 that-if the Indians do not use the land they ought to be given to somBbody who we feel would mace better us3 of it than the Indians -whether they would or not I do not know But this is a matt3r that attracted my atten- tion ihose lands after they are irrigated are said to be worth $100 on the average; some western men say that. ^ Senator Msteks. I do not know that they are on the average. Some of them are worth that. Senator Lvste. They claim that to be a fact. Ssnator Myers. I do not know who claims that. It may be true that some of them are worth .$100 an acre. Senator LiV.NE. I thiak they claim they are, on the average I have here a communication from the Poison, Mont., Chamlber of Commerce, signed by James Harbert, which I would like to put into the record. Seaator Walsh. Jimmy is quite a booster. Senator Lane. I have no doubt of it. This is dated August 31, 1915, and at the bottom of the page he says: These lands will be worth, on the average, |100 per acre the minute the wat«r is made available, and the Indian as well as the white man will have more than doubled his resources. (The letter referred to is here printed in full, as foUows.) "We Want a Million."— Flathead Irrigation Project 1916. PoLSON Chamber of Commerce, Poison, Mont., August Si, 1915. Harry Lane, Portland, Oreg. , Dear Sir: I am writing to each Member of Congress a pi^rsonal letter setting forth reasons why much larger appropriations are needed for the successful prosecution of the Flathead irrigation project. It will require approximatfly $5,000,000 to complete this project and at the present rate we are receiving appropriations it will be 25 years before water is made avilable to all the unit holders and allottees holding lands under this reclamation scheme. Some of our Congrnssmen are erroneously imbued with the idea that the Indian does not look with favor upan irrigation and that he will not be benefited by the reclamation of his land. More than one half of the irrigable area of this project has been allotted to the Indians and th'^ir lands are just as valueless to them without water as to the white man, and tho Indian and white man alil<:e entered upon these lands with the expr'^ss und rs landing that water would be made available for irriga- tion purpos'?s. Four years of successive crop failures has demonstrated that these lands will not yield a living und' r dry farming methods and at least one-half of all the settlers, including the Indians, holding lands und' r this project have been compelled to temporarily or permanently abandon their lands. There is no mor^ meritorious proj''Ct in the whole reclamation service than the Flathead, and the Indian and the white man alike want the work to proceed with all diligence and haste. The revenue ffom the sale of thesi lands will eventually all go to the Indians and it is the duty of the Government, by precf pt and example, to teach the Indian how to make his allotment yield him something worth while, and the Indians of the present generation are entitled to receive some of the fruits of their ownership and resources during their lifetime. These lands will be worth, on the average, $100 per acre the minute the water is made available, and the Indian, as well as the white man, will have more than doubled his resources. We are not asking for any gratuitous appropriations in connection with this project. The unit holders have pledged their lands and their very lives for all construction and maintenance charges. The Government is holding the first mortgage and takea precedence over every other form of indebtedness on the land and Uncle Sam is not 596 INDIAN APPEOPRIATIO N B] [ , 1 . . taking any chances whatsoever. I want to firmly impress upon you the fact that all the apprcpriations made upon this project from the very start are reimbursable either to the Indian or to the Government. We want to urge upon the Government the great importance of appropriating a sufficient amount of money to complete the reclamation project and make the funds available from time to time as needed and until expended. This will enable our settlers to get water at an early date and will greatly reduce the cost per acre of this project. Montana's Members of Congress without exception have been indefatigable in their efforts to secure much larger appropriations for the development of this project, but becausiiof opposition upon the part of certain Members of Congress who do not realize the great importance of irrigation on the prairie lands of this reservation and the urgent necessity of vigorously pushing this project to a quick and successful termina- tion, they have not been able to got the recognition and appropriations that the situation warrants. , Oiu: congressional delegation, consisting of Messrs. Myers, Walsh, Evans, and Stout, will ask for an appropriation of $1,250,000 for this project at the next session of Congress. We want a million dollars for the main project and a quarter of a million dollars for n«w work in the Little Bitter Boot Valley. I sincerely trust that you will see your way clear to cooperate with and assist our Members of Congress in procuring for us this much largor appropriation we aro seeking. There is absolutely no justification for the procrastinating and temporizing methods the Government has seen fit to adopt in reference to this irrigation project. Not one single valid argument can be pre- sented why this work should not bo pushed with all possible haste and the water made available at the earliest possible moment. If you desire any further information advertent to this matter I will be glad to advise you fully and accurately. I will be glad to have an exprf ssion from you in reference to the above, and if we can have assurances from you that you will aid our Congressmen in helping them to get the legislation we are seeking, we certainly will appreciate it from the very depths of our hearts. Very sincerely, yours, Jas. M. Hurbeit, Chairman Irrigation Committee, Poison Chamber of Commerce. [United States Senate, Committee on Public Lands, Henry L. Myers, chairman.] Hamilton, Mont., Jii,ne 8, 1915. , Hon. Jambs Harbbrt, Poison, Montana. _ Dear Mr. Harbbrt: I am glad to learn that you are undertaking a campaign of pub- licity in behalf of a million dollar appropriation for the prosecution of the Flathead reclamation project next year. I commend you therefore and am glad to have your help in this highly important and meritorious matter. I take great pleasuje in com- mending you to the earnest consideration of all with whom you may correspond or come in contact in the presentation of this matter and solicit for you their interest and attention. The Flathead reclamation project, the object of which is to furnish water for irriga- tion of both the Indian and white settler's irrigable lands on the Flathead Reservation, was begun after legislation authorizing it, about six years a^o. Prior to that time the Indians had been allotted lands in severalty and the remaining lands were thrown open to homesteading. These lands are not fit for dry farming. A man can not make a living on them at dry farming. Therefore, the homesteaders who took homesteads in this reservation at the invitation of the Government wsre given to understand by the Government that water would be put on their lands by the Government so as to make them productive, the homesteader to pay tke cost of putting the water on. The homesteaders were given to understand and had every reason to believe that the water would be put on with all possible expedition. There are about 150,000 acres of highly productive lands under this project which may be made a great resource if supplied with water. Without it they are mostly worthless. Relying on the good faith of the Government, settlers took up these lands six years ago and have put in their time on them, struggling against adverse conditions. The Government, instead of prosecuting this work diligently, has dallied in doling out from 1200,000 to 1400,000 per year, making many changes in plans and keeping con- tractors in the dark about how much work would be done each year. The Govern- ment should have appropriated $1,000,000 per year to this work, and by this time it would have been completed and everybody would be happy and prosperous. Instead INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 597 of that the work has lagged through insufficient appropriations; the setllere have become discouraged and poverty stricken, and many have left. The Government has not dealt justlv with them. The project was to cost about $6,000,000. Less than $2,000,000 have been appro- priated in the last six years. Now the crucial time has come. We must have $1,000,- 000 a year for the next five years to complete this work in a businesslike manner. Our delegates in Congress must have the help of the people on the reservation and of the whole State of Montana, and of everybody in the country who has interests in or dealings with Montana, direct or indirect. We nust arouse a public sentiment in our behalf. Our cause is just. We want a milUon»dollar appropriation by Congi'ess next winter. It is just and we must have it, and I hope you will arouse an interest that will help us in getting it. 1 heartily concur in the statements made on the circular inclosed with your letter. They are substantially correct and I give them my approval. We can stand on them. 1 think your plan a wise one and believe it will be most helpful. With great respect, yours, for justice, H. L. Myers. Senator Lane. The reclamation charge on that would be about $30 an acre, Mr. Meritt mforms me, and $4.50 would be the averap;e price which the Indians would get for it, that is an average ranging from $2 to $7 an acre, making the average price to the Indian $4.50 for land which will cost the white man $34.50, and there is the difference between that and $100, and I wanted the Indians to get something from that. The Chairman. Suppose the Indian put the water on the land; how much would he get for it ? Senator Lane. $100. The Chairman. That answers that. Senator Lane. If it is worth $100 and it wiU sell in the open mar- ket at open bidding for $100 or $50 or whatever the difference is be- tween $4.50 and the reclamation charge, the difference between that and what it sold for I think the Indian is entitled to have. He needs it worse than any white man in the world. There are Blackfeet Indians here or were a little while ago — one is a chief — who go hungry in the wintertime. The Flatheads, too, are going hungry, and in some cases I am informed, and there are sworn affidavits to the state- ment, they are eating out of the swLU barrels of the whites, and it seems to me it is inhuman on our part, sitting here comfortably clothed in warm rooms legislating on this matter, unless we provide that these people get the difference. It can be apphed to their allotments, and will also enable them to build barns and get teams and horses and harrows which they need and they ought to have, for they have not those things with which to farm then- land. They also lose their land for lack of the use of the water; they are losing their lives; they are destitute and tubercular and going down hill; and here is their prop- erty and we are selling it as their guardians. Why can not we fix it and let the whites have it at a proper and fair price and let the money go to them; they need it as badly as- any class of people on earth out- side of perhaps those poor devils out there in Europe. Now that is the point I wa©t to present and to appeal to this com- mittee to change that and ask for a reappraisement of these lands for those Indians so that they will get the difference. Senator Walsh. Senator Lane, you know this reservation was opened by an act passed in 1904. You see that was 12 years ago, and that act provided that the land should then be appraised. It was appraised some eight, nine, or ten years ago— at least ten years 598 INDIAN APPROPfilA'nON BILL. ago — and then the allotments were made to the Indians and the Indians selected the land they wanted. Senator Lane. Yes. Senator Walsh. And these settlers were invited to come in and take the remaining land at the appraised price, and they have made their selections and they have made their nUngs, and the Government is under contract to give them this land. Senator Lane. Are there any lands remaining? Senator Walsh. I think not. I think practically everything has been taken. Senator Lane. It is closed ? Senator Walsh. Yes; but the Indians can get it. Under the gen- eral statute the commissioner can do it at any time he wishes. Mr. Commissioner, can you teU us how many lands are taken under these allotments and how much remains ? Mr. Meeitt. Practically all the land under the project has been taken. Senator Lane. There is no hope of getting any more for the Indians than the $4.50 average ? Mr. Meritt. The land was appraised 8 or 10 years ago at from $2.50 to $7 an acre. Senator Lane. Then in that case this is an appropriation for the reclamation of lands, most of which are in the hands of the whites and reimbursable out of Indian funds 1 Mr. Meritt. No, sir; we are trying to change the existing law. We are trying to correct the injustice that we Qiink has been done the Flathead Indians and we have the legislation in this item here, which, if enacted, will, we believe, place this project on a sound financial basis. It will require the white people to pay their pro rata share and the Indians to pay their pro rata share according to the benefits received, and the irrigation construction cost will be a charge upon the land irrigated. Senator Lane. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask if it is contem- plated to continue this discussion this afternoon. I have one or two important matters that I desire to attend to. Senator Walsh. I will ask, Mr. Chairman, that the matter go over, and I would also like to ask that it be continued until Monday morn- ing and then disposed of. I ask unanimous consent that the amend- ment be taken up on our convening on Monday morning and that at or before a quarter to 12 o'clock on that day a final vote be taken on the amendment. The Chairman. On this amendment presented, and each subject comprehended within it ? Senator Walsh. Yes. There was no objection, and it was accordingly so agreed. The Chairman. The committee will now adjourn until 10 o'clock Monday morning. » (Thereupon, at 12 o'clock and 5 minutes p. m. the committee adjourned to meet at 10 o'clock a. m., Monday, March 6, 1916.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. MONDAY, MARCH 6, 1916. United States Senate, Committee ON Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), Lane, Owen, Myers, Johnson, Walsh, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. IKRIGATION systems, BLACKFEET, FLATHEAD, AND FORT PECK INDIAN reservations, MONT. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, I notice that Senator Lane is temporarily absent from the room, and Senator Page, perhaps you will be interested in the figures that are given in the report of the Reclamation Service of 1915. Senator Page. Did you sa^y the Geological Survey? .Senator Walsh. No; the Reclamation Service. The report states: Present status of irrigable area opened, about 49,600 acres have been entered, 400 acres open to entry,"97,000 acres li private ownership, mostly Indian allotments held under trust patents; 5,000 acres of State lands. So that there are only 400 acres lying under the project that would be affected by a reappraisement, if one was ordered. Senator Page. Senator, the suggestion come to me that the Indians out there beUeve there is some valuable coal there. Senator Walsh. I never heard any suggestion that there was coal in the Flathead. Senator Myers. That is not in the Flathead; it is in the Black- feet. That has nothing to do with the Flathead. Senator Walsh. We spoke about that the other day. Senator. The coal, as I explained to you, is supposed to be in the southeastern part of the reservation. There is coal there. Coal has been mined fust across the Birch Creek, to the south and east, Birch Creek being the dividing' line. , . , . ,, Senator Page. Are the Indians protected m that m case there should prove to be coal there ? Senator Walsh. There is no protection because there is none. Senator Myers. The Blackfeet has not been allotted and opened. The Flathead has been. 600 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. Senator Page. That has been brought to my attention in some way, that the Indians were solicitous lest they were going to lose what they believe to be a valuable property there in coal. Senator Walsh. I am sure the solicitude is not on the part of the Indians. Senator Page. Why should they not be solicitous if it is there? They want it protected and preserved for their children when it is opened. Senator Walsh. There has been no opening. Under the existing law — under the act of 1907, even — and under the act w-hich we hope to pass opening the two eastern rows of townships, the land will be subject only to homestead entry, and any land that is underlaid with,,,, coal is not open to homestead entry except by the reservation of the coal-land right. Under the existing law you may enter, under the homestead law, the surface, but the coal right is reserved. Senator Page. Then there already is a law that sufficiently pro- tects the Indians ? Senator Walsh. Yes, sir; it preserves their rights. Senator Page. So that if there is any coal there it is conserved for the Indians' benefit ? Senator Walsh. Yes, sir; but that, however, reserves the coal to the United States; that is out of the general public domain, and should think naturally that on the Indian reservation it would be reserved for the Indians. The question is whether under existing law it would go to the Indians or would go into the general Federal Treasury. But if we pass an act opening that, I should think it mightbe wisely put in that provision that the coal right should be reserved for the benefit of the Indians. I would be very glad to add to the bill any such amendment. That is not before us now, you understand, but I would be very glad to add any amendment that would insure coal for the Indians. • Senator Johnson. Has it been the custom out there by the Goy- ernment in allotting these lands that where an Indian took an allotment to reserve all mineral rights ? Senator Walsh. No; that has not been done. Senator Johnson. Then any rights that they might have after taking allotments would go to them? Senator Walsh. Of course, but Senator Page is considering the case of entries made by homesteaders. Senator Page. I was not very well informed, Senator, about that measure, except that I have Been approached upon that question, and tne information comes to me tha;t the Indians are solicitous in regard to the coal question and think that it ought to be resprved for them where the surface rights were taken up by the homesteaders or otherwise. Senator Walsh. I have introduced a bill to open a considerable portion of the Crow Reservation, and in that bill I nave made specifio provision that any coal in the land should be reserved, and that the Government might afterwards grant the right to explore the ground und take out the coal.for the benefit of the Indians. Senator Page. I would like to ask if any of these Indians here, or any person here, can give us information upon that point. Senator Walsh. Mr. Clark can probably give you the best informa- tion about that matter. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 601 Senator Page. Have you anything to say to us ? Mr. Hamilton. Yes, sir; after Mr. Clark finishes. Mr. Clark. Mr. Chairman, we have some coal on the Blackfeet Reservation, but according to present int^cations I do not think there is very much. The coal vein that is opened there now is in this strip of land which Senator Walsh has a bill to open. In the central and northern parts there are slight indications of coal, and there has been some exploration, but there has not been any real coal beds opened there. As I say, in this trip, the eastern part of our reserva- tion, there is the only coal bed that has been opened. Senator Page. There are some croppings that would indicate the possibility of coal ? Mr. Clark. Yes, sir; and there has been, as I say, an exploration made opening up some of those croppings, but they did not seem to reach a real coal vein. However, the Indians on the Blackfeet Reservation in any measure planned for opening up their land would desire to provide therein for protection of that coal. That is about the sentiment there. Senator Johnson. Are the Indians in favor of opening that strip ? Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. The Indians on the Blackfeet Reservation reahze that it is not an agricultural country. It is admitted, I think, by the Indian Ofiice. They are a stock-raising people. They have one of the finest cattle ranges very likely in the United States. We raise beef there that sells for more than the beef that is sold elsewhere in the United States. We receive from half a cent to three-quarters of a cent more for beef from the Blackfeet Reservation than is received for beef in other parts of the State, and they get from one to two cents more for it than the beef sold in the southwestern part of the United States. A two-year old steer wiU go to twelve and four- teen hundred pounds in the fall. That is pretty good beef. So the Indians reahze they have a good stock country, and it is the only business that they know anything about. At the same time, the other part of the country is too cold. They have frost nearly every month of the year and the farming industry has been tried out, I think, and has been a failure so far; so their only salvation is the cattle industry. There should be put in that industry a sufficient amo'unt of capital or a sufficient amount of cattle per head so that it win eventually grow into a self-supporting proposition. It is said that $100,000 or $200,000 or $300,000 would be enough to start them. $300,000 would only give us about a cow or two cows a piece. That would not be a start. We should have at least five head, or possibly eight head, to start with, and if they receive that amount they would be more enthusiastic; they would take more interest in building up their homes and fences, and other things. Senator Walsh. If you wiU pardon me, this is exceedingly interest- ing; both of these gentlemen could enlighten us upon that subject, but that matter is not before us now, and I am going to ask that we devote our attention to this reclamation project. The Chairman. I was going to suggest that this committee is not considering that matter; we have no proposition to open any land whatever. , „ -n • ^ x ht Senator Walsh. I would like to have Senator Page interrogate Mi-. Hamilton on the coal matter. , , ■ , . . ' Senator Page. And I would hke to hear him for a tew moments. 602 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. The Chairman. As I understand, there is no proposition whatever to open any land at all. Senator Myers. Not in this matter at aU. Senator Walsh. That is all in the other bill, fo which I shall ask the attention of the committee as soon as it disposes of this matter — that is, I mean this bill. Senator Page. I wotdd like to ask just one question there. I sup- pose Montana is like Vermont; it is so cold that you have to make provision lor your cattle through the coldest weather. Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. Senator Page. Is that section the best for grazing ? Mr. Clark. No, sir; it is estimated that is our poorest grazing land. It is estimated that it requires 25 acres to graze animals in that section. Senator Page. 1 am talking about raising hay and alfalfa; is that not the best ground you have for producing hay and alfalfa, for the suport of your cattle through the winter ? Mr. Clark. That part that is irrigable very likely would be. Senator Page. That is all; I do not care to take your time any longer. That .matter was on my mind. STATEMENT OF ROBERT J. HAMILTON, ESQ. Mr. Hamilton. You have asked for some information as to the coal land. Not quoting anybody except your department, which made investigation, through the Geological Survey, they have discovered coal. I have before me a document issued by the Geological Survey entitled "Geology and coal resources of northern Teton County, Mont.," wherein the Blackfeet Indian Eeservation is entirely em- braced. This document shows that in this country there are over 3,000 square miles of coal land. Out of that, 2,425 square miles are ■within the Blackfeet Indian Eeservation, and the map so indicates. These coal beds exist there and I have cited the particular location of those coal beds. I will read this paper: (Bulletin 621-K, United States Geological Survey, George Otis Smith, Director.] GEOLOGY AND COAL EESOTJKCSS OF NORTHBEN TETON COUNTY, MONT., PUBLISHED JANUARY 5, 1916. (Page 143:) The slight westward dip carries the coal at the Allison prospect to the creek level within a quarter of a mile upstream. One mile further north, however, on the sharp bend of the creek in N. i sec. 20, the coaly shale zone with brackish- water shells and several beds of impure coal as much as three feet in thickness can be Been close to water level. The shale zone is about 35 feet thick and can be followed along the banks of the creek to, and a short distance above, the mouth of Little Rocky Coulee, where the dip of the strata finally carries it beneath the creek. The general northward strike of the rocks carries the outcrop of the coaly shale zone containing the coal bed mined at the Allison prospect northward across the area lying between Big Eocky and the Little Rocky Coulees, but it is nowhere exposed in this tract because of the cover of clay and sand of the galacial drift. On Big Rocky Coulee, however, at locality 14, in sec. 17, T: 35 N., R. 6 W., a coaly shale zone that is with little doubt at the same horizon in Two Medicine formation is again exposed and can be traced eastward about 5 miles, as far as Headlight Butte, in the adjoining township. The above cited prospect is within the territory where the great- est amount of unallotted lands lie that would be sold if any part of the reservation were opened. The unallotted lands which it is urged that the Blackfeet sell lie in ranges 6, 7, and 8, and townships 30 to 37, inclusive. Most of the irrigated are in townships 30, 31, 32, 33 and 34. iNDlAlf APPROPRIATION BILL. 603 There are outcrbpings of coal and other evidences of it in eveiy town- ship from north to south in the eastern part of the reservation. The Alhson ranch, it is said by the people of the Blackfeet Reservation, or some of them, that the said ranch was located at that point because of the coal and not for any other reason. Mr. Allison is a white man married to a mixed blood Indian woman. The plat, Plate XVI, of the above-named bulletin shows coal out croppings in each township on the eastern part of the reservation except 36 and 37. Mr. R. J. Hamilton of the Blackfeet delegation knows of coal outcroppings in townshin 37 that are not shown on the plat referred to. Yes — coal all over. That is the situation. Senator Page. That is all I care to ask. Senator Walsh. Senator, you understand that whenever a home- stead is applied for, the applicant goes to make his proof and investi- gation is made through the Geological Survey for the purpose of ascertaining whether there is any coal or not. This is a plat gotten up by the Geological Survey. Senator Page. You think the Indians' rights are fully protected? Senator Walsh. They are absolutely protected, except that I am not quite sure the coal is reserved and the homestead entryman would have to take his entry subject to the right of the Government to take the coal and keep the provisions of that statute exactly in mind to see whether the rights of the Indians are protected against the general Treasury; that is to say, whether what is afterwards derived from the coal would go into the general treasury or go into the Indian Office. But as between the settler and the Indian, the present law fully protects the settler. Senator Page. That is all I care to ask. Senator Lane. There was an amendment that was handed to me to submit to this committee for protecting the coal. Senator Wal^h. That would be very wi?e, Senator Lane, but allow me to remark that we have not got that ques'ion before us. Senator Lane. I know, but when the time comes I want to submit this amendment. Senator Walsh. I have the information which was desired upon the matter which we were considering when we last adjourned, and I gave it to the committee a few minutes ago. It is the report of the Reclamation Service for 1915, and tells us that under the Blackfeet Indian Reservation, about 49,600 acres have been entered; 400 acres are open to entry, 97,000 acres are in private ownership, mostly Indian allotments held under trust patents, and 5,000 acres of State lands. So there remain only about 400 acres which would be open to reappraisement. Senator Lane. Where is that, on the Flathead ? Senator Walsh. Yes, sir. Senator Johnson. About how many? Senator Walsh. Four hundred acres. The Indians have taken about 97,000 acres and the settlers have taken about 49,600. Senator Page. The Indians then have taken more than the whites ? , , Senator Walsh. Yes; the Indians have taken 97,000 acres, the raport says mostly Indian allotments in that 97,000. The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? Is there any objection to approving this item ? 604 INDIAK APPBOPKIATTON BILL. Senator Owen. What is the item, Mr. Chairman ? The Chairman. The item is somewhat similar to the item carried in the bill last year. It proposes to continue the construction of the Flathead project in the State of Montana. It was opened and set apart under the act of March 4, 1904. Do you wish it read, Senator ? Senator Page. It carries $750,000. Senator Myers. Let me say. Senator Owen, that it is the usual appropriation for continuing the reclamation work on the Flathead froject, the Blackfeet project and the Fort Peck project, on the ndian reservations in Montana. Senator Owen. It relates to all three, does it ? Senator Myers. Yes, sir. Secretary Lane and Commissioner Sells for their own purpose and of their own volition tried this year to get' it put upon the sundry civil bill, but Mr. Fitzgerald, the chairman of the appropriation committee of the House, utterly refused to have anything to do with it and said he would not let his committee con- sider it, and would not let it be laid before his committee, and we are now compelled to come before this committee and ask to have it put upon the Indian appropriation bill as an amendment, as has always been done. Senator Owen. Did not this committee pass upon this matter during the last Congress ? Senator Myers. Yes; we did. Senator Walsh. It is in the same language. Senator Owen. It was Senator Clapp's proposition, was it not ? Senator Myers. It was put on the Indian bill; the Senate passed it, and it was killed in conference. Senator Page. The bill never passed the Senate. Senator Myers. The bill passed the Senate. It was the confer- ence report that caused the filibuster. Senator Page. It was in the Senate on the last night of the session. Senator Myers. The biU passed the Senate and came back on the conference report, because the conferees could not agree, and the Senate killed that conference report, or failed to act on it, by 12 o'clock noon, on the fourth day of March. Senator Owen. The Senate did not get it; it was held up by the filibuster on the floor of the House, as I understand.' The Chairman. Are you ready to vote upon the matter? The clerk will call the roll. The question being taken by yeas and nays upon the amendment resulted, yeas 6, nays 2, as follows: Yeas : Senators Myers, Lane, Owen, Johnson, Walsh, and Ashurst, Nays: Senators Page and Curtis. Senator Lane (when his name was called) . Well, I suppose, under your statement, Senator, and I am guided by that if it is all right, I will vote for it. All I was trying to do was to protect the Indians. Senator Page (when his name was called) . WeU, I guess I will vote no because I am so much in the habit of doing it that I can not change. So the amendment was agreed to. Senator Curtis. In view of the disclosures here the other day that the Blackfeet irrigation project has been a failure, virtually, or has not been a success at least, and under the showing that was made that these Indians, or many of them, are starving, I think we had INDIAN APPROPKIATION Iil],L. 605 better appropriate $50,000 or a $100,000 to buy them some horses and cattle. Senator Myers. The bureau is asking for $100,000 for that. Senator Walsh. You wiU remember that Mr. Meritt proposed a few days ago the making of an appropriation of $100,000, reimbursa- ble, to do just that thmg. Senator Curtis. The Blackfeet have no money to pay it. Their money has all been used for putting in this irrigation proiect, which IS not a success. i- j > Senator Walsh. At the very f rst opportunity I &m gomg to ask tor the passage of a bill to open those two eastern townships in order to pro-vide them with some funds. Senator Page. You say the two eastern townships. You mean the two eastern rows of townships ? Senator Walsh. Yes. Senator IjAne. I do not think that will do anything except to temporarily relieve them of their distress; at the same time it will circumscribe the area of their grazing and alfalfa h.nd. I am going to oppose that. Senator Walsh. It is the only resort that I know of. Senator Lane. You can rent it out for more than you can sell it for. If you lease it on a long term lease, you can get pretty nearly as much as it would bring if sold outright, n.nd it will allow the Indians to go into the stock-ri.ising business. Will it be in order now for me to present this amendment ? Senator Myers. The matter as to which you desire to offer that amendment is as to a separate bill of Senator Walsh's, which is not before the committee at the present time. The Chairman. Ko; that is not before the committee, the matter as to which Senator Lane wishes to offer an amendment. Senator Lane. I understand. Senator Myers. It is not before the committee. The Chairman. You do not Wfi,nt to put it on the appropriation bin? Senator Myers. No, sir. Senator Lane. Mine will go on, will it not ? Senator Myers. If Senator Walsh's bill comes up. Senator Lane. I am not acquainted with his bill. I thought this would be the proper place to put it in in connection with the Black- feet item. You precede me. Senator, and I will wait until you are through. Senator Myers. It makes no difference to me. Senator Owen. I think that what Sinitor Lane is endeavoring to indicate is that the biU which Sanator Walsh has prepared for the opening of this land and to whiih your ammdmant would apply is a separate bill, and will be brought up bafore the committee as a separate matter. Senator Lane. Well, I wiU wait for that, then. Senator Walsh. I might say to you, Senator Lane, that anything that will preserve the coal rights of the Indians on these lands, which will be for the benefit of the Indians, will have our hearty approval. 606 INDIAN APPKOPBIAUON BILL. RELIEF OE H. K. BIOKFORD. Senator Myeks. I desire to bring a matter before the committee which pertains to this bill, at the request of a gentleman in Great Falls, Mont. He is engaged in the banking business there, Mr. H. K. Bickford. I am not acquainted with him. Do you know him, Senator Walsh ? Senator Walsh. No; I do not. Senator Myers. He has only been there three or four years. He opened up some correspondence with me. He formerly lived in Oklahoma. I spoke to Senator Owen about the matter at the time, as he formerly lived in that State. He wrote me that when he lived in Oklahoma he had advanced a large sum of money to defray the expenses of moving some Choctaw Indians from Mississippi and Louisiana to Oklahoma. He claims to have advanced, I think, about .175,000; that is my recollection. As he relates in his corre- spondence, the Choctaws were, by the Government, offered land in what was then the Indian Territory provided they would move from Louisiana and Mississippi and go out there. A good many went out and took their lands; others lingered behind; they did not pay any attention to it, and finally claimed they were not able to go because they had no money to move themselves with. Mr. Bickford, it seems, claims that he advanced some money, at whose solicitation I do not know. He wrote me a number of letters, and asked me to introduce a bill authorizing the Secretary of the Interior to hear the claims which he claimed to have advanced, and adjudicate them and allow them and recommend them to Congresa for passage if he approved of them and saw fit to recommend them. I do not know much about it— in fact, I do not know anything about it except what Mr. Bickford writes me, as I have had some corre- spondence with him concerning the matter. It seems to me his motives were all right. I introduced such a bill. It is Calendar No. 93. It is very short, and I will read it: That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to adjudicate and determine the amounts equitably due by the Chocta-ws heretofore finally enrolled on the Mississippi Choctaw ro'l for services rendered to each of them, respectively, and for expenses incurred in their individual behalf in the matter of their identification, removal to the Choctaw-Chickasaw Nation in Oklahoma and allotment, including amounts expended or advanced to the n respectively, for their subsistence, transportation, personal and livin-; expenses, for the purchise of improve- ments to secure allotments, and for stock, farmln"; i nplements. and improvements placed upon their lands durin? their period of provisional al.'otrient to enable them to become self-supporting; and all claims hereunder shill be filed in duplicate within three months after the passa5;e of this bill, and one copy Ihereol mailed to the debtor named therein, his heirs or personal representatives: and the amount allowed under the provisions of this section shall be paid out of any funds to the credit of the ( ho"t>iw- Chickasaw Nations and reimbursed out of any moneys due or to be ome due said indi- vidual Choctaws by the United States: Provided, Ih.t tha Se:retary of ths Interior shall make regulations governing the presentation of s .id claims and proof thereof. That bill was introduced and referred to this committee. It was by the com.mittee, as is the custom, to r.ftr to the Indian Drpart- mfnt for its advice. The Indian Dt.partmc;nt has transmitted a voluminous report up here. I looked over it somewliat, and it ap- pears to be an adverse report. Senator Owen. Is the Senator taking this matter up in connection with the Indian appropriation bill ? INDIAN APPROPRIATION BTI.I.. 607 The Chairman. No; it is a separate bill. Senator Owen. Have we disposed of the Indian appropriation bill? The Chairman. No, sir. Senator Myers. I am going to offer it as a separate piece of legis- lation. Senator Owen. I shall have to make a point of order against it. The Chairman. I hope you do not offer it as an amendment to this bill. jj Senator Myers. Gentlemen, I have consumed but very httle time of this committee, and if I can not have the time to respectfully sub- mit my views upon the proposition for five minutes, I will retire from the room. Senator Owen. I do not wish to cut the Senator off. I move that the Senator have all the time he desires. Senator Myers. May I have the privilege of making my state- ment, which will consume but five minutes ? Senator Page. If I were to offer any criticism upon the Senator, it would be that you have not burdened, us with enough of your time. Senator Myers. It is because I have been steadily engaged upon other matters in another committee. This matter relates to a constituent of mine, and I merely feel that I am trying to perform a duty. I introduced a bill upon this sub- ject and the clerk informed me it had been very voluminously re- ported against by the Indian Department. Mr. Bickford wrote me the following letter on the 28th of February, 1916: Great P^alls, Mont., February ?8, 191$. Senator H. L. Myers, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. Dear Mr. Myers: I am in receipt of yours of the 18th instant, inclosing a copy of the bill you introduce! at my request, which I have read over very carefully ard find thit it fills all requirements very ni.ely, and I hope it will pass in time to be efficient for the purpose intended, but I note that the House has passed the Indian bill con- taining provision for the per capita payment to the Choctaws, which will distribute about all the money these Julians have to their credit. In view of this fact, in order to give us relief this bill should be passed first or offered as an amendment to the Indian bill, whi h wou!d get us the desired results, for if the House bill passes first I •don t believe we stand much show of ever recovering anything, and we certainly are entitled to our money, as we were engaged in good work and had the best of inten- tijns, and just such work as Congress indulged in to the tune of $20,000, only we took better rare of them and furnished them with supplies after they were moved. Thanking you for your interest and kindness in the matter and hoping yet there will be some way of securing the desired results, I am with very kind personal regards, Yours, very truly, H. K. Bickford. I very seldom offer any motion or bill or amendment in regard to Indian affairs outside of my own State. I think this is the first time I have ever done so, and I only do so because a constituent of mine who appears to be acting in good faith, and who is a reputable business man, asked me to do so. In regard to the Oklar boma Indian matters, I have always, or as a general rule, been in large measure governed by what Senator Owen said, in whom I have had great faith, because he knows more about those mattei-s than I do. In regard to Indian matters in Oklahoma I have always made a practice of going to Senator Owen and asldng about them, and have been governed in a large measure, if not entirely, upon what he 608 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. has said. I have no personal interest in this matter. This is the nrst time I have ever offered a bill, or a motion or an amendment with regard to Indian affairs outside of my own State. I preter to leave those things, as a rule, to the Senators affected, and to be guided very largely by their judgment. I spoke in a preliminary way to Senator Owen about it, but did not talk to him much upon the sub- ject, and then introduced the bill. Mr. Bickford asked me to offer this bill as an amendment to the Indian appropriation bill. He says that if the Indian appropriation bill passes first for distributing the money per capita of the Choctaws he will be left out in the cold. As I have said I have no personal interest in this matter whatever. I have stated all I loiow with respect to it to this committee. I am myself disposed to be guided very largely by what the Senator from Oklahoma, Mr. Owen, says as to the justice in the matter and what is advisable, but I offer this bill now as an amendment'to this Indian appropriation bill and simply submit it to the committee for its judgment. I have no personal interest in it, I am not deeply in- terested in it any more than I am to serve any other constituent of mine in any other way, and in a fair-minded way. All I want is what is fair and just from the committee, taking into consideration this report from the bureau, and ask Mr. Meritt what he has to say about it. Whatever the committee thinks is fair I will be satisfied with. The Chairman. The clerk will call the roll. Senator Myers. I do not care for a roll call. A viva voce vote wiU do. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, when the removal of the Choctaws in 1896 and 1907 took place, about 1,600 of them moved over to Oklahoma from Mississippi under legislation of that period, and some of them moved themselves; the Government moved some of them. Some of them were moved by gentlemen engaged in leasing their land, and whenever those gentlemen moved a Mississippi Choctaw from Mis- sissippi to Oklahoma, he immediately, without exception, took a lease upon the Mississippi Choctaw's land to reimburse himself for such expenditures. It is impossible after this lapse of time, in view of the ignorance of these Indians, to tell to what extent such persons were reimbursed, and it would practically be a hearing ex parte against these Indians. The department naturally reported adversely upon it. The matter has come up in the form of an amendment before and has already been adversely reported upon, and I do not think that these Indians should be subjected to that charge. It would lead undoubtedly in many cases — not aU, but in many cases — to false swearing, and the making of accounts against these Indians and sup- pressing the credits which the Indians would be entitled to on account of these leases. So, I do not think after this lapse of time — ^it has now been 14 years since the Choctaw and Chickasaw agreement of 1902 was passed under which these people were removed — that it ought to be brought up at this time. That is why I suggested, without intend- iag to cut the Senator off in his presentation of the case, that I should feel compelled, as an official representative from Oklahoma to make a point of order against the amendment. ' > Senator Walsh. Senator Owen, what is the fact about the likeli- hood of the fund being divided and dissipated? Senator Owen. They have about $31,000,000 remaining there. ±±\uxji.±y ij.jfjmujrniAiiUJN hill. OUy Senator Curtis. And we only give them about $6,000,000 or $7,000,000. Senator Walsh. So there is no great fear about it. Senator Curtis. There is another statement which I think should be made. The contracts with the Mississippi Choctaws were so out- rageously one-sided that Congress, back in 1901, put a provision in one of the bills prohibiting contracts with them to shut out just this class of contracts. Senator Owen. Yes; they canceled aU contracts which had been made bearing upon this land. Senator Curtis. The law was passed because of contracts of this kind. The Chairman. The question is on the amendment of the Senator from Montana, Mr. Myers. The amendment was not agreed to. Senator Myers. I understand that this vote is upon the question of putting it on this bill as an amendment. The bill stands on that report ? The Chairman. Yes; the bill stands in full integrity before the committee. DISPOSAL or surplus lands, BLACKFEET reservation, MONT. Senator Lane. I find this amendment in the act which has hereto- fore been passed, reading as follows : That so much of the Indian appropriation act of March first, nineteen hundred a'nd seven, thirty-fourth Statutes at Large, pages one thousand and fifteen and one thousand and thirty-five, as relates to the disposal of the surplus lands within the Blackfeet Reservation, Montana, is hereby repealed, except such part or parts thereof as include grants of land to religious institutions and to the State of Montana for school purposes: Provided, That the Secretary of the Interior shall make allotments under existing laws to any living children of said Blackfeet tribe, who have not heretofore been allotted, so long at there remains any unallotted land of said reservation: Provided further. That nothing herein contained shall be construed to repeal the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to dispose of any land for town-site purposes within said reservation as provided in said act of March first, nineteen hundred and seven. Sec. 2. That coal, gas, oil and all other minerals covered the lands selected for allotment, and all unallotted or tribal lands, shall be reserved to the Blackfeet Tribe forever. That leases for mineral products within the Blackfeet Reservation, Montana, shall be made by the tribal council and approved by the Senate of the United States. The tribal council members, as now constituted, shall be elected by the Blackfeet Tribe in open council assembled, after due and reasonable notice, and for a period of two years. No member of the said council shall be removed from office except for cause and after trial by the council upon written charges. Proceeds of mineral leases shall be paid per capita to members of said tribe, except incompetents for whose benefit the same may be expended by a business agent selected by the council and under regulations promulgated by the Secretary of the Interior. Sec. 3. That all lands within the said reservation, reserved, allotted, unallotted, and those granted for religious, town-site, and school purposes, or otherwise disposed of shall be subject to the laws of the United States prohibiting the introduction of intoxicants into the Indian country; and no intoxicating liquors or other intoxicants shall ever be sold or given away upon any of the lands within said reservation. The penalty shall be the same as that for the introduction of liquor into the Indian country. Can you explain this, Mr. Meritt, or some of you Blackfeet gentle- men? Senator Walsh. I will say that the general features of that amend- ment meet with my very hearty approval. I would be glad to have it incorporated in the bill. I think that the section with respect to 31362—16 ^39 610 INDIAN APPBOPKIATION BILL. leaving the territory open for the operation of the laws in relation to the sale of intoxicating liquors is in my bUl. I intended that it should be. The Chairman. Is this an amendment to the Senator's bUl ? Senator Lane. No ; it is an amendment to the law. Senator Walsh. The reservation of the coal rights is altogether accepted. Senator Owen. It is in regard to an amendment asked by the Blackfeet? Senator Lane. By the Blackfeet Council and to allot the children who have been born. I suppose that is satisfactory ? Senator Walsh. Entirely satisfactory, but of course it has no place^ here. Senator Lane. I see it was amending the act of March 1, 1907. Senator Walsh. In the same way the act opening the Blackfeet Reservation was an amendment to the Indian appropriation of that year. So when I presented this matter to the committee last year I proposed it as an amendment to the appropriation bill because it was then an amendment, but the committee ruled against me, and ruled that it was subject to a point of order. Accordingly I have presented the matter this year as a separate bill. INDIVIDUALIZING INDIAN HOLDINGS. Senator Owen. I want to call the attention of the committee to the substance of this amendment, which I think is contrary to the general policy of the Government with regard to the Indian people. We entered upon the policy some years ago of individualizing Indian holdings and teaching them the arts of the white man in self-support, and it was contemplated that in due time the Indian Department discharged this duty — I do not mean in our lifetime, but within some reasonable time — and that the Indians would become citizens of the United States. This bill proposes to put the property, as I understand it, in communal form in perpetuity. Senator Lane. I think not. I think the idea was to retain the property rights instead of having it passed to protect their rights. Senator Owen. I call attention to the fact that it reads as if it would leave it in the tribe as a communal property and not as indi- vidual property. Senator Lane. I do not think that is the intention. The Chairman. May we not take that up when we reach that bill ? Senator Owen. Oh, yes; I have no further comment upon it. The Chairman. It has no place here, although it will bo considered as a separate bill. The next is the South Dakota item. eight of nomination and election by INDIANS OE AGENTS OE superintendents. Senator Johnson. Before we go into that, I would like to ask the consent of the committee to report Senate biU 3904, No. 75 on the Calendar. Senator Walsh. Mr. Chairman, can we not try to get through with this appropriation biU ? INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 611 Senator Johnson. I do not think we will get through with it to-day, and this matter has been standing for a long time. I would like to have it taken up if it is satisfactory to every one This has been reported adversely by the Indian Department, and has the unanunous report for favorable consideration by the subcommittee which was appointed. Senator Page. You say it was reported advefselv upon bv the department? ^ ^ The Chairman. Yes; it was reported adversely upon bv the department. Senator Johnson. It is a bill that I introduced for conferring the right upon the Indians to govern themselves on their own lands in the reservations by permitting them to select by majority vote, superintendents or agents, instead of being appointed by the Secre- tary of the Interior, as is usual. That is the substance of the bill. It will take but a few minutes of the committee's time. I presume you are aU somewhat famihar with it, and if action of some kind can be taken on the bill I would be very glad to have it done. Senator Myers. Are you offering this as an amendment to the appropriation bill ? Senator Johnson. No; when we come to South Dakota, I simply ask common consent, before we take up the South Dakota appro- priation matter, to consider this bill, and to allow this to be taken down upon my mentionirg the facts as to what has occurred. Senator Myers. The Chairman thought you were offering this as an amendment to the appropriation bill, but that is not correct; you are not doing that ? Senator Johnson. No. Senator Gronna. Senator Johnson, has this been acted upon by a subcommittee ? Senator Johnson. Yes; a subcommittee composed of Senator Clapp, Senator Lane, and myself. Senator Gronna. And it is unanimously recommended by the sub- committee ? Senator Johnson. Yes, sir; it is recommended by the subcom- mittee. The Chairman. Is there any discussion desired on this biU? Senator Walsh. I would Uke to hear the report of the department. The Chairman. The Secretary will read the report of the depart- ment. Senator Page. The Senator does not want, as I understand it, that we should pass upon this matter at this time. Did I understand you to have it passed upon at this time ? Senator Johnson. I asked to have it reported. denominational INDIAN SCHOOLS. Senator Gronna. May I ask the indulgence of the committee just a minute, as I have to leave the committee and attend a meeting of the Agricultural and Forestry Committee. I desire to ask that the item respecting the appropriation that has been made for denominational schools go over unless the bill is to be reported out to-day. I want to be heard upon the matter because I 612 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. have aa amendment which I would like to offer which in a way, I think, would dispose of the matter definitely. The Chairman. That is the last remaining item. This bUl of Senator Johnson's wiU be discussed for some days. The bill is a very radical bill. It may be a good bill, but we can not pass on the bill this morning, as we are considering the appropriation bill. Sena- tor, will you not wait until we dispose of the other items in the appro- priation bill relating to North Dakota, and we will promise you that we will take this up the very next minute we get through with that. Can we not take that item up now? Senator Gkonna. It wUl take some time, and I presume the Senators from Montana are anxious to dispose of their matter. , The Chairman. That matter has been disposed of. This is the only remaining item. Senator Johnson. My reason for asking consideration of this matter just at this time is that I understood Senator Ashurst to read "South Dakota." The Chairman. Yes; but it was South Dakota as relating to the appropriation bill. Senator Johnson. I understand that thoroughly. Senator Gronna. I take it that it will take some time and, as 1 have said, I of course do not want the committee to delay reporting the bill out if this is the only item. The Chairman. That is the only item. Senator Gronna. I suggested to the assistant commissioner an amendment which would provide for the civilization and education of the Sioux Indian Tribes outside of the mission schools. I know it is an important matter and it ought to be done with care. What I want to do is this : I want to be perfectly frank in my state- ment. I think it is unfair to any church denomination to have sent out reports that the Treasury of the United States is being raided; that hundreds of thousands of dollars are being used for educational purposes when, as a matter of fact, it has been stated to this com- mittee this year and was also stated last year that about $28,000 had been used for denominational schools. Of course there is an item here amounting to $200,000, but that amoimt, as I understand, is not used altogether for school purposes. Now what I desire to see done, and I want to record my vote that way, is to eliminate that from this bUl. If it requires a quarter of a million of doUars to build schoolhouses for these Indians, let us go ahead and do it; I am ready to vote for such an appropriation, but I am not ready to vote to continue this appropriation from year to year and to have before this committee every year strife and trouble which I believe does not properly belong here. As I stated before, I think it is unfair to the people who have been trying to do theii very best to civihze and educate these Indians. They are the onlj people who have put themselves out to give these tribes of Indians an education, and I know that criticism has been suggested which is unfair. I have some literature of that character in my pocket. 1 think the committee ought to settle this question now and that this appropriation should not again go into the bUl. If it does go in, il should not extend any further than this year. But, in my opinion an appropriation should be made for these schoolhouse buildings ir order to properly take care of these Indian children and to educat( them. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 613 I desire to say, further, that those of you who were present in this committee room when the four Indians from Fort Berthold Reserva- tion were here, could see that they were intelligent men. They all belong to the Catholic Church. I am simply suggesting this to show you that they were not prejudiced. I was authorized to say for them that they want schoolhouses built in the same manner in which the white man has built his schoolhouses; that they feel that it is unfair to take away from them the privilege of being educated in the public schools. Now, these are questions which we must meet, and I for one am ready to meet them, and I want to go on record as opposing any further appropriation for denominational schools, I do not care what the denomination may be. As I have stated, the Catholic Church is entitled to a great deal of credit for what they have done for the Indians. I know some of the men who have gone out as pioneers. They have risked their lives m order to civilize the Indians. They have done a great deal for them, and it is unfair now to criticize those people with the suggestion that this is a matter of graft when they have contributed very largely to the civilization of those people. The Chairman. What amendment do you propose ? Senator Cubtis. May I suggest that when this question was up a few days ago Senator Gronna was not here. I made a statement along the line of that which the Senator has made, that I thought we ought to provide schools for those children, and I, for one, think we should provide schools for them, and if we can not build the buildings that we should send them to school no matter where. Education is what they need. The commissioner has stated, I think, that it would take a quarter of a million dollars to build the school buildings and that it would take about a year to erect them. I think at the time I asked that an item be prepared by the assistant commissioner for the erection of the school buildings; I do not know whether he has done that or not. As far as I am concerned, I would like to vote for an amendment that would give them ample school facilities, and shall vote for this appropriation to provide schools for them until we do so provide. Senator Page. Let it go through this year as it has formerly. Senator Curtis. We want to insert an item this year to build the buildings. Senator Page. Yes; but you would not ask that the item for this year be thrown out. You would want to give these scholars a chance to go to school, and to provide for education hereafter. Senator Curtis. Next year we wiU make an appropriation, after the buildings are erected, for the teaching. The Chairman. You mean to make it immediately available, and that would allow them to begin the construction of adequate build- ings at once. I think that there was some statement that an addi- tional 1250,000 would be sufficient for the purpose of constructing all necessary buildings. I do not recall just who made the state- ment. Senator Curtis. What do you say, Mr. Meritt, as to how much it win take ? 614 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Mekitt. I think $250,000 will be sufficient to provide school facilities for the Indian children now attending the mission schools in the Sioux country. Senator Cuetis. Have you prepared an item for that, or do you just want it, for the erection of buildings, $250,000 ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; I have not prepared an item, as yet. Senator Johnson. Would that be an item for the building of the ordinary schoolhouses, such as are used by the cotintry children — - small schoolhouses ? Mr. Meritt. It might be necessary to buUd some boarding schools in addition to the day schools. Senator Johnson. Do you not think that the best plan for the Indians that could be put forth would be to rebuild just the ordinary school- houses for them, as we do for the white people? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that would be the best plan — to provide for them where the children are located, so that they could attend these schools. Senator Johnson. The schools could be built according to their location. Now, Mr. Chairman and Senator Gronna, do I under- stand that it is the desire of the committee to allow this $200,000 appropriation to continue for this year ? Senator Gronna. I was going to say, Senator Johnson, that I would move, in order to bring it before the committee, that an item of $250,000 be inserted in this appropriation biU for educational purposes, to be inserted at this particular place, and to be made immediately available. Senator Citrtis. And for the erection of buildings, and an appro- priation for educational facilities. Senator Gronna. Yes. Senator Myers. That would not interfere with this year's appro- priation ? Senator Curtis. No, sir. Senator Johnson. And the Sioux item to stand as it is. Senator Cubtis. Yes; I want to offer an amendment to that. Senator Gronna. It may not be necessary to offer an amendment, I think we can agree upon the proper language. Senator Johnson. I feel as you do, Senator Gronna. I have had some opposition to the appropriation as it has come to our com- mittee, in fact, considerable opposition, and I think that a small amendment that I can briefly draw up would relieve the situation of any reasonable objection that could be offered, and which would probably suit everybody. The Chairman. Have you the amendment prepared ? Senator Johnson. I have it in my head. The Chairman. Just state it to us. Senator Johnson. I would suggest an amendment something simi- lar to this, providing that the pro rata share of this appropriation shall be available to any denominational schools situatecf on any of the reservations, or any denominational schools that might become operative during the Ufe of this appropriation. I think that ought to satisfy any reasonable objection anyone could offer. Something of that kind. Senator Gronna. If you will pardon me, Senator Johnson, my idea was to eUminate from this bill entirely the question of making appro- INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 615 priations in the Indian appropriation bill for all denominational schools. If it is to be understood that it is only some particular de- nomination that shall be denied this privilege then I nave nothing more to say. My very purpose, Mr. Chairman, was to forever eliminate from the Indian appropriation bill appropriations to any denominational institution. It makes no difference to me whether it is Lutheran or Methodist, or any other denomination. I am op- posed to appropriating money for the purpose of educating the In- dians in denommational schools. That is my only purpose, and to say that any denomination can use the pro rata does not meet the requirement which I think are absolutely necessary. Senator Johnson. If you wiU excuse me a moment, I understand that this appropriation in its present form is to continue during this year. Senator Gronna. Yes. Senator Johnson. As I understand this appropriation, it simply applies to mission schools. Senator Geonna. I sincerely hope, Senator Johnson, that we will not enlarge upon this important question in the way that you have suggested. The only denominations that can now take care of these people are those persons who have their mission schools on the reser- vation now. It seems to me we ought not to confuse this question any more than is necessary, or to make it worse than it is. I have a strong conviction that it will be for the benefit of the Indians, and that it is only doing justice to those people who have done so much for the Indians. I know that priests have gone out in the Indian reser- vations. I know one of them in particular in Fort Totten Reserva- tion, old Father Ketcham. He sacrificed the best days of his life for the civilization and education of the Indians, and it is unfair to that class of people that they should be unduly criticised by those who are not Catholics. Senator Johnson. I realize that and believe it. Senator Geonna. I have said all I care to say, and if the matter comes to a vote, kindly vote me for what I have suggested here, as I am compelled to leave the committee. The Chairman. You want this appropriation to stand for this year only? Sendltor Gronna. Yes, sir. . . , i x ^ . The Chairman. And that an appropriation be made ot not to ex- ceed $250,000 for buildings and educational facilities m the future < Senator Gronna. Yes, sir. . , ^x, i,-ii i, + + Senator Mters. You do not ask that it go into the biU, but it stands for this year only ? . . Senator Geonna. No; leave the item ]ust as It IS. Senator Myers. Leave the item just as it is without adding a jot or tittle to it, and leave the $250,000 for the hereafter. Senator Page. Or so much thereof as may be necessary. Senator Geonna. Yes, sir. _ , ^i , Senator Walsh. Have we any information as to how that money is eoins to be expended, how many schools are necessary, and what it if goLg to cost to construct them, and what kmd of plan is in mmd %fMTRS:^wVtv?fotT-the mission schools in the Sioux couutry 581 Indian pupils who are paid for out of the Sioux tribal 616 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. funds. We have not worked out the details as to how we shall pro- vide for those children in the event the proposed legislation is enacted. The general policy of the bureau would be to provide small day schools for them, wherever practicable, and where that is not practi- cable, of course it will be necessary to provide them with boarding schools. Senator Walsh. The information I desire is, have you gone far enough into the matter to be able to tell us about how many build- ings will be necessary, what the character of them would be, and about what it would cost ? For instance, Senator Johnson has an idea that they should be in the nature of district schools, and if that is the case we ought to have some idea about the number that will be necessary,., and about what the cost will be. I dare say there might be different views upon that. Of course if they are going to be boarding schools, if that IS the plan of the bureau, rather than day schools, then it would be compMcated and they would be less. Of course the build- ings would be very much more expensive. I think the day schools on the Crow Reservation were discontinued and the conclusion was arrived at that for that reservation at least the boarding school was to be preferred. I thought before we made an appropriation of that amount of money we ought to have some definite idea as to how much we were going to spend. Senator Curtis. May I suggest that we had this matter up a week ago and the Assistant Commissioner was asked to give the matter a little thought and consideration and determine on about what would be required, and I understand this is the result of that investigation. I understood at the time that the purpose was either to build day schools or to provide for them in boarding schools or send some of them to pubUc schools, and that the least they could possibly get along with was this quarter of a million of dollars. I think the Senator is right that we should have before the bill gets on the floor of the Senate a statement by which we could sustain the item. By that time you could work it out, could you not, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we could work out a plan. Senator Walsh. If it was a business proposition that came before a board of directors of a corporation, and that is practically the attitude we occupy toward this fund, as trustees of a trust fund, in a contem- plated appropriation of $250,000 we ought to have a good deal more information, it seems to me, about what the manner is to be in which it is going to be expended. Of course everybody approves of the general purpose. Senator Page. This adds, does it not, $250,000 as a gratuity appro- priation? As I understand it the schools that are now utUized are paid for by the Indians. out of their own funds. Senator Walsh. I did not understand that it was to be a gratuity. I understood that it was to be an appropriation out of the tribal funds. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. Senator Page. That the $250,000 was to be taken from the tribal funds? Senator Walsh. That was my understanding. Mr. Meritt. No, sir; my understanding is that it is to be a gratuity appropriation. Senator Curtis. Under the old treaty provision under which we have to provide schools for this tribe of Indians — that old treaty has INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. 617 not been fulfilled; so the Government is under obligation to pay out of the general fund for the education of these children, and it is really carrying out that provision that this appropriation is made. Senator Owen. For the Sioux ? Senator Cuktis. Yes. Senator Walsh. Really although not out of the tribal funds, it is the satisfaction of an obligation. Senator Cuktis. Of a treaty obligation. Senator Walsh. Of an obligation which the Government owes to the Indians, and it really amounts to the same thing, does it not ? Senator Curtis. No; in one case it would be taken out of the Indian funds, and in the other out of the general funds. This is deducted out of the general funds of the Government to carry out the old agreement, that schools should be provided for these Indians. Senator Johnson. Our treaty with the Sioux, the real treaty pro- viding for that, as I understand it, has run out, but there is an agree- ment following it up , and I think will cover the same ground. Senator Walsh. We had that up a year ago. My recollection is that the treaty was made in 1869, and that it was extended for 20 years to 1889. Senator Owen. The council made an appropriation at the time — Senator Walsh. It extended it 20 years then, which would carry it to 1909. But apparently Congress from time to time since that time felt that it had not, even during that period, met aU the obMgations which it owed. The Chairman. It has been extending the appropriation to be ex- pended in accordance with the treaty since 1899. Senator Curtis. I think it was the old agreement of 1889 which expired in 20 years, but the old treaty of 1868 did not expire. There was no hmitation to it, and under the fifth article it said : In consideration of the foregoing cessions of territory and rights, and upon full com- pUance with each and every obligation assumed by said Indians, the United States does agree t» provide all necessary aid to assist the said Indians in the work of civili- zation and furnish to them schools and instruction in mechanical and agricultural arts, as provided for by the treaty of 1868. Senator Walsh. But there is another provision, which is to the effect that the treaty shall subsist for 20 years. Senator Curtis. The treaty of 1868 ? Senator Walsh. No; this treaty. Senator Curtis. That is the treaty of 1889, but this is an act ot 1877 that I refer to. p , o . xu ^ n Senator Walsh. It was argued on the floor of the Senate that ail of the obligations of the treaty expired with the lapse of that period. I hardly felt that that was right myself. Senator Curtis. I do not think it is right. The Chairman. In the argument last year no reference was made to the provision which Senator Curtis has just read. I was oblivious to it- I confess I did not know anything about it at that tune. Do you wish to discuss the matter further, or shall we take it up at ^Senator Johnson. I would, like to have that matter He over until to-morrow, if it is satisfactory to aU concerned. The Chairman. This particular item, you mean ? 618 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. Senator Johnson. That is the item of this particular appropriation of $200,000, and touching the matter of school treaties. Senator Page. Is that all we can consider this morning ? The Chairman. That is all. Senator Page. I move that when we adjourn to-day we adjourn until half past 10 o'clock to-morrow morning. Senator Owen. Has the committee finished all the other items in thebiU? Senator Page. I was simply making the motion that when we adjourn we adjourn until h.alf past 10 o'clock to-morrow morning. (The motion was agreed to.) SUPPLIES, etc., foe INDIAN SERVICE. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, we have one item which we would like to have inserted in the general estimates before Arizona and New Mexico, as follows: Section 9 of the act of March 3, 1875 (18 Stats. L., 450), is hereby amended so as to read as follows: ' ' That hereafter all bidders under any advertisement published by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for proposals for goods, supplies, transportation, and so forth, for and on account of the Indian Service whenever the value of the goods, supplies, and so forth, to be furnished, or the transportation to be performed, shall exceed the sum of 15,000, shall accompany their bids with a certified check, draft or cashiers' check, payable to the order of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, upon s me United States depository or some one of such solvent national banks as the Sec- retary of the Interior may designate, or by an acceptable bond in favor of the United States, which check, draft or Isond shall be for five per centum of the amount of the goods, supplies, transportation, and so forth, as aforesaid; and in case any such bidder, on being awarded a contract, shall fail to execute the same with good and sufficient sureties according to the terms on which such bid was made and accepted, such bidder, or the sureties on his bond, shall forfeit the amount so deposited or guar- anteed to the United States, and the same shall forthwith be paid into the Treasury of the United States; but if such contract shall be duly executed, as aforesaid, such draft, check, or bond so deposited shall be returned to the bidder." The following justification is submitted in support of the proposed amendment to section 9 of the act of March 3, 1875 (18 Stats. L., 420-450), the effect of the suggested change being to permit in con- nection with the purchase of supplies for the Indian Service proper bid bonds and cashiers' checks in addition to certified checks and drafts where the proposal offered exceeds in amount the sum of $5,000. As the act now reads, certified checks and drafts on solvent national banks or United States depositories are acceptable where the bid offered exceeds in amount 15,000. Where the bid is for the sum of $5,000 or less there has been no statutory requirement as to what form of security, if any, should be required. Under section 147 of the Indian Office Eegulations of 1904, officers making purchases were required to obtain a certified check for 5 per cent of the amount of the bid, the same as was required on bids for more than $5,000. This regulation of the department was modified under date of August 20, 1915, so as to permit the acceptance of proper bid bonds where proposals exceeded $500 and did not exceed $5,000 in each instance, no check, draft or bond to be required for bids involving $500 or less, and these regulations are now m effect. Under the existing law we can not accept a bond or cashier's check to accompany a bid. We must accept a certified check, and INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 619 a great many bidders have objected to that. It is for that purpose that this amendment is suggested. Senator Owen. There can be no objection to that. I move the adoption of the item. The item was agreed to. RELIEF OF STUART, LEWIS, GORDON, AND RUTHERFORD, CREEK NATION. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I desire to call attention to an item purporting to pay to Messrs. Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, and Rutherford the sum of $7,000, which the Creeks agreed to pay them and which the council appropriated for them, and it was turned down because the contract was not originally made imder section 3103 and was not approved by the President of the United States. I would like to ask the assistant commissioner what he knows about this matter and whether he thinks it is right to pay it. The item is as follows : That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to pay to Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, and Rutherford, out of any funds in the Treasury of the United States belonging to the Creek Nation, the sum of $7,000, together with interest thereon at the rate of five per centum per annum from October eighteenth, nineteen hundred, to date of payment, being in full settlement of the claim of the said Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, and Rutherford against the said Creek Nation for legal services rendered the said Creek Nation employed by authority of an Act of the National Council of the Creek Nation, approved January seventh, eighteen hundred and ninety-eight, the said sum of $7,000 having been appropriated in payment of said services by an Act of the National Council of the Creek Nation, approved Octo- ber eighteenth, nineteen hundred. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, the department, I believe, has sub- mitted an adverse report on this item. Senator Owen. What was the ground of the adverse report ? Mr. Meritt. It was an old claim and there were not sufficient facts in the department to justify a favorable recommendation. I do not recall the details of the report. Senator Owen. The Creek Council presented a photograph here. I had a photograph of the action taken by the Creek Council, the original action of this council, with the signatures to it, appropriating for it. The facts seem to be perfectly clear that these people were employed and they rendered their services, and the Creek people tried to pay them twice and the department prevented it on the technical ground that the contract had not been properly executed. Mr. Meritt. That was one of the reasons why it was disapproved. Senator Owen. That was the reason, was it not ? Mr. Meritt. I beheve that was the reason. Senator Owen. So it comes down to a question of whether or not these people who had previous to that time been in the habit of transacting their own business should be denied the right to transact their business in that way. Under the old custom, these people dis- tributed their own funds, and did as they pleased with regard to their property; they made their own appropriation bills and did aU of those things. But just at this time, when this change took place, they were subjected to a new rule. These people have rendered their services and have not been paid. If the committee thinks that the change of rule is justified and is all right, I have nothing further to 620 INDIAN APPBOPBIATION BILL. say, but I want to present the facts as they are and to state the rea- sons which led the department in its refusal to pay it. Senator Walsh. What was the character of the service ? Senator Owen. They were legal services rendered during the time the Creeks were negotiating with the United States for a change of their tribal government, giving up their tribal government and having their lands distributed and all that sort of thing that involved the properties of the old Creek Nation. Senator Walsh. Were not those contracts subject to approval ? Senator Owen. Previous to that time the Five Tribes had had an independent autonomous government and they have done as they saw fit with regard to their funds, but just as this change took place the Government of the United States assumed jurisdiction over them. Senator Curtis. And required that all claims of this kind should be approved by the President, or the action approved by the Presi- dent. Senator Walsh. Did their contract for this service antedate or postdate that? Senator Owen Their employment postdated it, and these services were rendered during the time the change took place — is that not correct, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. I do not recall the details of the transaction. The Indian Office has prepared an adverse report on this item, and the clerk of the committee tells me that the report has not as yet been received. If Senator Owen thinks it is a just claim, I do not care to offer any further objection to it. Senator Owen. I do not know any more about it than I have stated. I saw the photographs here of the action of that council. I thought I had them in my drawer, but I can not find them. Senator Page. This, Senator Owen, is a proposition to pay out of the Indians' funds money that they have the privilege of paying, is it not ? Senator Owen. Yes; that is what it is. Senator Page. Is the evidence perfectly clear that they want to pay that now? Senator Owen. Ko; I do not know just what their attitude is now. Do you know, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meeitt. Ko, sir; I do not. Senator Owen. Mr. Grayson, what is the attitude of the Creeks with regard to this matter ? Mr. Gkayson. They are opposed to that. Senator Owen. You say they are opposed to it ? Mr. Grayson. Yes, sir; they are, indeed. They have been ex- pecting that that would probably come up. We met those gentle- men down in the committee room of the House and discussed it there. I do not know what the House has reported on that subject, but they seemed to think that we were correct in the position we took upon it. Senator Owen. What was the attitude ? Mr. Grayson. They took this attitude that the Government of the United States, contrary to any request of the Creeks, made itself the guardian of the Creek people, and that at one time the Creeks did pass a resolution providing to pay this account, but they after- wards — just how it came to be that they did disagree afterwards I do not recall — but they did disagree as to the payment of it. The INDIAN APPEOPEIAIION BILL. 621 matter came up three or four times each year and the Creeks turned it down each time. Senator Owen. The council acted upon that and rejected it ? Mr. Geayson. Yes, sir; and then the matter came up to the department, and the Indian Commissioner and the Secretary of the Interior and President McKinley aU turned it down, and they being our guardians, we preferred that this claim conform to the decision of our guardians. Senator Owen. The matter is now before the committee and what- ever action the committee takes will be satisfactory. The Chairman. The question is on agreeing to the item. The item was not agreed to. FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES COMPETENCY OF ADULT RESTRICTED MEMBERS. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I sent over for a report on the item authorizing the superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes to inquire into the competency of Indians. The department stated that it agreed with the purpose of the amendment but they did not like the administrative form of it; they did not want to have the Superinten- dent of the Five Civilized Tribes pass upon this question. They want to have an independent commission and they say they have several such commissions on other reservations. I do not think that a com- mission that has just come in for a short time and then goes away would be the proper administrative authority in a matter of that sort, and I think an item of this character would be subject to a point of order on the appropriation bill, and for that reason I do not think I should offer it, because I think that the Indian appropriation bill, except in very unusual cases, ought not to be made the vehicle of other legislation, although we have been compelled to do that because of the exigencies of the Indian Service, and because of the difficulty of putting through individual biUs in the limited time of the House and Senate. The Chairman. We are going to have an omnibus legislative bill come over here. ' Senator Owen. Yes ; and I think it will be better to bring that matter up when that biU js considered, and for that reason I shall not now offer it. But I would like to give notice that I will bring it up at that time, and, Mr. Commissioner, if you have any further objec- tions to make to it, I would hke to have you prepared to do so, because I expect to urge that this be done, or something like this be done. I do not feel wiUing to have this matter left just simply to a person who will come down and spend a few weeks and go away again. Any mechanism by which it can be looked after, and by which appeal can be made, would be all right, but I think it is an unwise admmis- tration to require the Secretary of the Interior to pass upon the files of a case involving merely the individual competency of some Indians. The Secretary is charged with an infinite variety of details, and I do not think that a matter of this sort should be left simply to one of the clerks in the department, which necessarily is the case when it comes back up here. I do not care who they put down in Oklahoma. They can send a clerk down to Oklahoma to pass upon that if they prefer, but I do not think it ought to be within the control of a clerk of this' department who has never seen Oklahoma and does not know 622 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. the people and does not know anything about it. He will sit up here and deliberately turn down people who are thoroughly competent. Charles Carter was telling about a case a day or two ago in which a woman who could always manage her own affairs was refused per- mission to use her own land at Caddo. It seems to be a very egregious blunder. Here is a woman who has taken care of a whole family of children and raised them and managed her own business always, and the action of the department prevented her from making a saving of $70 a year interest. It did not amount to much in dollars and cents, but it amounted a good deal in denying a woman who was known to be as competent as anybody at this table the right to manage her owq affairs. Before a man passes upon a matter of this kind he ought to Uve in the place and ought to personally know the situation. There has been a general idea that the white population down there are sup- posed to rob the Indians. Of course in any great community there will be found individuals who are perfectly unscrupulous, but the atti- tude of mind of Oklahoma has been shown by the action taken by the Oklahoma Legislature in passing a provision making it a felony to cloud an Indian homestead title, going far beyond anything that Con- gress ever did. If Congress wants to protect the titles to Indian home- steads or Indian lands, if they should make it a felony to cloud the title they would protect it. Oklahoma has gone further than Congress has gone, and while of course individual instances of rascality will occur in a big section of that kind involving many thousands of cases, a better administration would be to have some man who is on the ground and who sees the people and knows the people and knows their habits act in a matter of this character. I will bring this up again when the bill comes up. I would like to have this report go into the hearings at this point, because it gives the views of the department with respect to it. ITie Chairman. That wUl be incorporated into the record. (The report referred to is here printed in full, as follows :) That the superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes is hereby authorized and directed to examine into the competency of the adult restricted members of the Five Civilized Tribes and deliver to such persons found capable of managing their own affairs certificates of competency. Such certificates of competeacy shall be placed of record in a volume of records of competency to be kept for that purpose, and when issued shall have the effect of removing such person from the class of Indians under restriction or under governmental supervision, and thereafter no public funds shall be expended in the administration of the individual aKairs of such persons. For the payment of expenses and salaries of employees engaged ia making the classification herein provided, there is hereby appropriated the sum of $25,000. Depaktment of the Interior, Washington, March 2, 1916. Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. My Dear Senator: By your reference of February 23, 1916, I am in receipt of request for report on the amendment to the pending Indian appropriation bill pro- posed by Senator Owen, which has for its object the authorizing and directing the superintendent for the Five Civilized Tribes to examine into the competency of adult restricted members of the Five CiviUzed Tribes, and to deliver to the competent members "certificates of competency." The item carries an appropriation of $25,000. I ana in sympathy with the piu-pose of this amendment, but not with the machinery that it is proposed to use for the end desired. In a word, I am in favor of segregating INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 623 the competent adult and restricted Indians of the Five Civilized Tribes and giving to such competents "certificates of competency." That is to say, I am in favor of turn- ing competent Indians loose and maldng them self-dependent, but I don't think this burden should be cast upon the superintendent of the Five Civilized Tribes. I think it should be undertaken by men appointed by me and responsible to me. I have now in the field two commisiions, one headed by Maj. McLaughlin, for many years an in- spector in this department and the other headed by Maj. Thackery, one of our most competent Indian agents, both of which are passing from reservation to reservation selecting those Indians who are competent to handle their own affairs; and I have now in hand the papers relating to several hundred such cases, and in due time these Indians will, by virtue of the authority that is vested in me, be released from their status as wards of the Government and given entire control over their affairs. I expect to have more men put at this work in the near future, and to undertake it as a very seriofts part of our Indian work. I would be pleased, however, if Congress were to authorize the ernployment of additional inspectors to meet this problem in an adequate manner. In this connection I beg to quote from my annual report to the President of 1914: ''It is the judgment of those who know the Indian best, and it is my conclusion after as intimate a study as practicable of liis nature and needs, that we should henceforth make a positive and systematic effort to cast the full burden of independence and responsibility upon an increasing number of the Indians of all tribes. I find that there is a statute which significantly empowers the Secretary of the Interior to do this in individual cases. That authority is adequate. And as soon as the machinery of administration can be set in motion I intend to use such authority. If year by year a few from each of the tribes can be made to stand altogether upon their own feet, we will be adding to the dignity of the Indian race and to their value as citizens. To be master of himself, to be given his chance — that is the Indian's right when he has proven himself. And all that we should do is to help him to make ready for that day of self-ownership. "Viewed in this light, the Indian problem is incomparably larger to-day than it was ,when the Oherokees were gathered up from the Southern States and sent into the unknown across the Mississippi. In 1830 the problem was how to get the Indian out of way. To-day the problem is how to make him really a part of the Nation. This blend of wisdom, dignity, and childishness, this creature of a noncommercial age, has been brought into a new day when all must live by conforming to a system that is as foreign to him as the life of the Buddhistic ascetic would be to us. Slowly through a century and more of tortuous experience he has come to see that it is not our pur- pose to do him harm; but he must learn to find his place in an economy that antag- onizes every tradition of his ten thousand years of history. How, then, are we to get into the mend of this soldier-sportsman the fact that the old order has passed away and that the gentleman of to-day earns his right to live by his usefulness — that the American can not be a man and a ward at the same time? "It is a strange thing indeed that we should be concerning ourselves so largely and spending so many millions each year for the remaking of the people who are the truest of Americans. It shows how anxious to be just and willing to be generous are our people. They feel with a quick conscience how cruel it would be to introduce this primitive man into a harsh, competitive world of business with a code of its own more foreign to him than that of the Bushido; too much, they fear, like pitting little Boy Blue against Shylock in a trade. Let us frankly state the fact— there is such a thing as being too unselfish, and this the Indian too often is, for he has not gained a forecast- ing imasiiation. His traiaing has not given him the cardinal principle of a competi- tive civilization, the self-protecting sense. It is not instinctive in him to be afraid of starving to-morrow if he is generous or wasteful to-day. And work? Why work if not necessary? Is it not, as an Osage chief once reprovingly said to me, is it not the hope of every American that he may some day be a gentleman who does not work" "We are bent, then, upon saving the Indian from those who would despoil him until the time comes when he can stand alone. And that time comes when he nas absorbed into his nature the spirit of this new civilization that he has become part of. This is certainly a revolution we are expecting — an impossible revolution in some natures^ the substitution of a new standpoint for one long taught by fathers and grandfathers. Truly such a transformation is not to be worked like some feat of legerdemain, by a turn of the wrist Bayonets can not do it; money can not do it. We can force men to work We can keep them without work. These two methods we have tried with the Indian and'they have failed in leadmg him toward the goal of responsible self- support Adaptation to new environment comes from education, through experience. We therefore have the task of introducing a new conception into the Indian mmd. This is not a thing that can be done wholesale. It becomes an individual problem. 624 IKDIAN APPEOPEIAXION BILL. and our hope lies ia schools for the young and in casting more and more responsibility upon the mature, and lettiug them accept the result. "What should the best be in passing upon the fitness of one who ia to be sent out into the world? Plainly his ability to handle himself, to care for himself so that he will not become a charge on the community. To be a rich Indian is not a qualifica- tion, for his wealth may indicate, and generally does, nothing more than good fortune. In the land lottery some drew prizes and some blanks. Nor should the degree of blood be the best, nor education. For many of those who are wisest in counsel and most steady in habits and sturdy in character are uneducated full-bloods. The man who can "do" for himself is the man to be released. And he is the man who thinks not in terms of the Indians' yesterday but in terms of the Indians' to-morrow. One whose imagination can take that leap and whose activities will not lag behind. It is to be remembered that we are not looking for an ideal Indian nor a model citizen, but for one who should not longer lean upon the Government to manage his afiairs. "There are many thousand Indians in our charge who are entirely self-supporting, capable, thrifty, farsighted, sensible men. And singularly enough these are most oflen found among those tribes which were most savage and ruthless in making war upon the whites. Some of these are indeed so farsighted that they do not wish to enjoy full independence because their property would then become subject to taxation. Others are attached by a tribal sentiment and by the natural conservatism of the Indian to existing conditions. Still others are held to governmental control in part because of the entanglement of their tribal affairs. The Government will not do its duty toward itself or toward these Indians until men of this class are fully released. There is a second class, made up of those willing to work but not knowing how, and a third class, of those who know how but have no tools. For these there is help — the teacher farmer for the one and a small loan in the form of tools for the other. There are those, too, for whom it is too great a jump to pass from hunting to farming, but who can herd cattle, and for these the Government is providing herds for their ranges. Congress has been liberal in its appropriations for these things, and with a stable policy and administrative efficiency these Indians can be gradually lifted into useful- ness, full self-support, and into entire independence. Then there is the 'proud' red man who idly clings to the traditions of his race and talks of its past with such dignified eloquence, declaring in one glowing moment against the injustice of requiring service from those who once owned the continent and in the next sentence pleading for rations. This man is half brother to him who has degenerated under the orphan- asylum system into a loafer. My confidence is that for all these there is some hope, for most of them much. ******* "To turn the Indian loose from the bonds of governmental control, not in great masses, but individually, basing this action upon his ability to watch his steps and make his way, not in any fool's dream that he will advance without tripping, but in the reasonable hope that he will develop self-confidence as he goes along; to destroy utterly the orphan-asylum idea, giving charity only to the helpless and in gravest emergencies; to teach the Indian that he must work his way, that the Goverimient will no longer play the part of Elijah's raven; to convert the young to our civilization through the creation of ambitions and desires which the blanket life can not satisfy; to organize each group of Indians into a community of sanely guided cooperators, who shall be told and taught that this Government is not to continue as an indulgent father, but as a helpful, experienced, and solicitous elder brother— this program we are adventuring upon. It may be inadequate, but it is surely a long step on the road which the Oherokees took. "To carry out this policy there should be continuity^ of purpose within Congress and within this department. The strength of the administration should be turned against the two enemies of the Indian — those who out of sentiment or for financial reasons keep the Indian's mind turned backward upon the alleged glories of other days and the injustices that have been done him and those who would unjustly take from him the heritage that is his." Cordially, yours, Franklin K. Lane, Secretary, Senator Owen. Does that dispose of the Indian bill ? The Chairman. All except the item of South Dakota. Senator Johnson. Would the committee allow that to go over until to-morrow? The Chairman. That will go over until to-morrow without objection. INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. 625 NOMINATION AND ELECTION BY INDIANS OF THEIR AGENTS OR SUPERINTENDENTS . Senator Johnson. I would like to ask that the committee set a date and an hour, as early as possible, for the consideration of Senate bill 3904, Calendar No. 75, conferring upon tribes or bands of Indians the right of nomination and election of their agents and superin- tendents, to encourage them to interest themselves in their own affairs, and for other purposes. The Chairman. W^ can consider it now, if you wish. Mr. Secre- t&rj, will you please road the bill ? Senator Johnson. I do not mean to consider it to-day. I thought the matter was settled a while ago. I simply desire some time set in the future. Senator Owen. I move that the committee take that matter up next Thursday morning at half-past 10 o'clock. The Chairman. The Senator from Oklahoma (Mr. Owen) moves that the committee take up Calendar No. 75, S. 3904, being a bill introduced by Senator Johnson, next Thursday, at 10.30 o'clock a. m. The motion was agreed to. DENISOX coal CO., RELINQUISHMENT OF LANDS, CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW COAL LEASE. Senator Owen. JSlr. Chairman, I have a little bdl here to permit the Denison Coal Co. to relinquish certain lands embraced m the Choctaw and Chickasaw coal lease, and to include within said lease other lands within the segregated coal area. Those people had a lease that proved to be barren. They went in on it and there was a fault, so that they could not get coal out of it, and still under the lease they had to pay ground rent on it. The Secretary of the Interior makes a report upon it, in which ho concludes by saying: The superintendent of the T'ive Tribes reported that the records of his office do not show that any of the lands described in the proposed bill are covered by leases or applications for leases under the act of March 4, 1913 (37 Stat. L., 1007), in view of which and the reasons heretofore gi^-en, I can see no objection lo the passage of (he bill. Do you know about it, Mr. Meritt? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. Do you think it is all right « Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; it is all right and we will be glad to have that legislation enacted. Senator Curtis. Have they made attempts to discover coal on the leased land and failed? Senator Owen. Yes; upon the land they first had. Senator Curtis. And they made their entries and prospects and found that it was not valuable for coal ? Senator Owen. Yes, sir. . , , ,, -.,. j . Senator Curtis. And then simply because they were permitted to take other land in place of this original lease, is that right? Mr. Meritt. That is true. . ■ i i • i- Senator Walsh. What is the necessity for enacting special legisla- tion with regard to this? Is there not general legislation? 31362—16 40 626 INDIAN APPEOPRIAOMON BILL. Senator Owen. There is general legislation that no more leases shall be made, but this is an exception. These people were com- pelled to pay money on land that was not valuable for the purpose Mr. Meritt. Congress has passed legislation giving these people additional land, but there was a misdescription of the land. Senator Owen. Is that the case ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Owen. I did not understand that. Senator Walsh. Did they avail themselves of this ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; because the land was misdescribed. Senator Walsh. They never did take the lease ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. Senator Owen. I move the adoption of authority to report t&e bill, S. 1093, Calendar No. 24. Without objection, Senator Owen was instructed to report the bill favorably. I move that the committee do now adjourn until to-morrow morn- ing at half past 10 o'clock. (Thereupon at 11 o'clock and 55 minutes p. m. the committee ad- journed to meet at 10.30 o'clock a. m. to-morrow, Tuesday, March 7, 1916.) INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. TTTESDAY, MARCH 7, 1916. United States Senate, Committee on Indcan Affairs, Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. pursuant to adjourn- ment, Senator Henry F. Ashurst (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Ashurst (chairman), I.ane, Husting, Johnson, La FoUette, Page, Gronna, and Curtis. The Chairman. The committee wiU come to order. Senator Sterling has a matter which he wishes to present. authorizing negotiations of agreement with INDIANS. Senator Sterling. In the biQ last year there was an item author- izing the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to investigate claims and negotiate agreements with any tribe or band of Indians for the final adjudication and settlement of all claims and demand.-s of such tribes or bands against the United States, arising under any law, treaty, or agreement, etc. The Chairman. Do you want that in the bill? Senator Sterling. I should like it. The Chairman. Has the department any objection? Mr. Meritt. We would be glad to have it in the bill. The Chairman. Senator Sterling has called our attention to the i)rovision he would like to have inserted in the bill. It was estimated or this year and was on the bill last year, and reads as follows : That the Commissioner of Indian Affairs is hereby authorized to investigate claims and negotiate agreements with any tribe or band of Indians for the final adju- dication and settlement of all claims and demands of such tribes or bands against the United States arising under any law, treaty, or agreement, and which have not heretofore been adjudicated, and the Secretary of the Interior shall report the result of Buch negotiations to Congress for its approval at the earliest practicable date, and there is hereby appropriated out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appro- priated the sum of ten thousand dollars for all expenses in connection with this work, including pay of necessary additional employees. That was estimated for in the bill last year. Is there any objec- tion? Senator Page. Is this something that the Indians ask for? The Chairman. My remembrance is that n» Indian appeared before us. 627 628 IXDIAN APPROPRIATION BIT.r . Senator Page. What do you say, Senator Sterling ? Senator Sterling. I do not think it is anything that the Indiam have asked for particularly or specially, but I think the department reahzes that those things ought to be investigated. The Indians have asked for this and have made claims growing out of treaties from time to time. Now, with reference to the treaty ceding thf Black Hills country to the Government, they have claims growing out of those treaties, and there are others as well, and it was thoughl the investigation upon the part of the bureau here might settle manj of those questions. The Chairman. Senator Page, you will observe the amendment does not provide any appropriation to pay any claim, but the investi- gation is to be made and a report made to Congress ;' Congress would have to make any appropriation to pay the claims. Senator Page. Is one of the purposes of this measure to turn over to the Indians all their funds and to make them citizens and be mdependent of the Government? Senator Sterling. No ; it really has nothing to do with that. Senator CrRTis. As I understand, Senator Page, it only has to do with the claims the Indians may have against the Government, This provides for an investigation and a report to the department, then the department will report tg Congress to see whether or not the Congress will settle the claims without referring them to the Court of Claims. Of course the Senators realize that Congress has been very slow to pay any of these claims; they have always forced them to go to the Court of Claims, even when they had a just claim, as was done in the Nebraska case. -In that case there was not any doubt that the Government owed the Nebraska Indians, yet the Government would not pay. The Government owed the eastern Cherokees and probably could have settled and saved a miUion dollars, but would not settle, and forced them to go to the Court oi Claims. Senator Page. What particular tribe have you in mind, Senatoi Sterling, whose affairs you would like to have investigated ? Senator Sterling. One in particular is the Sioux Tribe, or differ- ent tribes of the Sioux Indians in the Black HiUs country there They claim that they have rights growing out of cession of that regior and a part of the great Sioux Reservation, and they are here wit! claims from time to time. The department is questioning these claims. There are some of them that are probably valid claims and should be allowed and paid; others, perhaps, have no sufficiem foundation at all. Senator Page. Does this in any way have reference to annuitiei of the Sioux which have been suspended or were suspended because of their bad conduct ? Senator Sterling. I do not know anything about what it ma] include; it may include something of that kind. I think perhapi the terms of tms amendment are broad enough to do that. Senator Geonna. I have read the amendment carefully. I thin! that it would include any claim. Senator Page; that is, it would aUo'v them to investigate any claim, whether treaty or any other kind. The Chairman, "if we are going to appropriate any money, shoule it not be broad enough to cover any claim the Indians may have Senator Gronna. I think it should. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 629 The Chairman. Whether by law, treaty, or other\vise. It seems to me we ought not make two bites of a cherry if we are going to investigate any claims. Senator Page. Such an investigation as this contemplates, Mr. Chairman, could hardly be touched on the surface by the $10,000 appropriation. The Chairman. The testimony before us last year was to the effect it would be sufficient, Senator. I do not know. I have had no new information, but that was the testimony last year. Senator Page. I spent, I think, three weeks in an investigation of the Indian affairs in one State, Wisconsin, and we opened the doors to any Indians who wished to come in and present to us any claim or complaint that they had, and we found that it was almost an interminable matter. The Chairman. Congress does not make this investigation; the Secretary of the Interior does. Of course that would obviate an enormous amount of expense, being made by the Department of the Interior. Senator Sterling. I think there is a great deal of data which would be available to the department which would enable them to deter- mine some of these things to start with, and thej^ could avaU them- selves of all that in regard to these agreements, but there are also the undetermined things. Senator Gronna. It is obvious that the Department of the Interior could make these investigations at less expense than could be done in any other way. Senator Sterling. I think it would end many of these claims and save trouble and expense. Senator Page. I nave no doubt that is right, but the query in my mind is this: Axe you going to get men of sufficiently high character and sufficient ability to pass upon these complaints of the Indians, which certainly are so involved and mixed that you and I would have a good deal of trouble, Senator, to reach a definite conclusion ? The Chairman. That is true, Senator Page. Senator Gronna. I think that is the great difficulty. I agree with you on that. Senator Page. This would seem to involve sending out there some man to make the investigation. I do not know that I particularly object to it if that is desired, but I am rather inclined to think that I would confine my investigations to the particular field to which Senator Sterling would like to have us apply them until we see how it would work out, for I have serious doubts about it working out as we would like. Senator Sterling. As to that I have felt that I would be willing to trust the bureau, the Office of Indian Affairs, in regard to that, they taking the data they already have, and then investigating these further claims which are coming in, claims, the Indians say, growing out of previous agreements and treaties with them. Senator Page. Do you think that a great matter of an Indian treaty and a claim that is of such a doubtful nature and such an important nature that it has bafiled the Indian committee here for years, that it could be taken up by some man sent out by the depart- ment,' a bureau man, and competently passed upon? 630 INDIAN APPKOPEIATION BILL. Senator Sterling. I should not like to make a comparison between what the committee might do and a man sent out by the department. Senator Page. We have before us a proposition to consider the annuities which were suspended 50 or 60 years ago to the Sioux and restore them. Not only restore them from this time forward, but go back and let them Senator Sterling. Make it retroactive ? . Senator Page. Yes; make it retroactive, and I was rather iachned to oppose that legislation myself. I thought it was questionable, but certainly it is too important to leave to an ordinary member of the bureau — such a man as they would send out. It takes a first-class man to pass on those things. I am not opposed to your plan. Sena- tor, but I was wondering how it would work out. Senator Sterling. You wiU observe. Senator, the result of nego- tiations is to be reported to Congress and Congress is to be the final arbiter of the matter, so that I think all in ail it is the safest pro- vision. The Chairman. What is your pleasure. Senators, about this item proposed by Senator Sterling? Is there any objection to it or any discussion? If not, it is agreed to. support and civilization op POTTAWATOMIES, WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN. Senators, Senator La FoUette's secretary called on the chairman a moment ago and left an item to be inserted in the biU, page 59 of the comparison. After the words "seK-supporting," on line 22, on page 59, it is proposed to insert the following: Provided, That in order to train said Indians in the use and handling of money, not exceeding $25,000 of the above appropriation may be paid to them per capita, or be deposited to their credit subject to expenditure in such manner and under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. In other words, referring to the appropriation of $100,000 found on page 56: For the support and civilization of those portions of the Wisconsin Band of Potta- watomie Indians residing in the States of Wisconsin and Michigan, and to aid said Indians in establishing homes on the lands purchased for them under the provisions of the act of Congress approved June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and thirteen, 1^00,000, or so much thereof as maybe necessary, said sum to be reimbursed to the United States out of the appropriation, 'when made, of the principal due as the pro- portionate share of said Indians in annuities and moneys of the Pottawatomie Tribe in which they have not shared, as set forth in House Document Numbered Eight hundred and thirty (Sixtieth Congress, first session), and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to expend the said sum of $100,000, in the clearing of land and the purchase of houses, building material, seed, animals, machinery, tools, imple- ments, and other equipment and supplies necessary to enable said Indians to become self-supporting. This amendment provides that $25,000 of the same may be taken and placed to their individual credit until they may become some- what familiar with the handling of the money. The Senator's secretary left with the chairman a letter from Mr. Dennison Wheelock, an attorney at law.at West de Pere, Wis. Has the department any objection to that? Mr. Meritt. No, sir. The Chairman. Senator Husting, you are from that State. What have you to say about it ? INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 631 Senator Husting. I have not given it any consideration, but I have no objection. The Chairman. I will ask that the letter addressed to Senator La FoUette from Mr. Wheelock go in the record at this point. (The letter referred to is as follows:) [Dennlson Wheelock, Attorney at law, West De I'ere, Wis.] ifAECH 3, 1916. Hon. RoBT. M. La Follette, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. Uy Dbar,Senatoh: Referring a^ain to my verbal request to have the item appro- priatmg $100,000 for the Wisconsin Band of Pottawatomie Indians in the Indian appropriation bill for the fiscal year 1916 increased to $125,000, and the amendment of that item by the following — • "Provided, That, in order to train said Indians in the use and handling of money, not exceeding $25,000 of the above appropriation may be paid to them per capita, or be deposited to their credit subject to expenditure in such manner and under such rules and regulations as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe — ■" I desire to make this additional statement: Under the treaty of September 26, 1833 (7 Stat. L., 431), with the Pottawatomie Nationof Indians, about half of the nation — aggregating roughly 2,000 men, women, and children — was removed from Wisconsin and Michigan to Kansas, and the balance fled to Northern Wisconsin, the upper peninsula of Michigan, and the Canadian mainland along the shores of the Georgian Bay and the Great Lakes. In 1906 Congress by the act of June 21 of that year (34 Stat. L., 380), directed an investigation of the claims of these refugees and an enrollment thereof with the result that about 457 were found to be residing in Wisconsin and Michigan, and nearly 1,500 in Canada. A full report as to the enrollment and status of these Indians was made by the Secre- tary of the Interior to Congress and was printed in House Document 830, Sixtieth Con- gress, first session, entitled "Report of investigation of claims of Pottawatomie In- dians of Wisconsin." In this report it was said in effect that the annuities and other benefits flowing from the said treaty of 1833 were paid to the removal Pottawatomies in Kansas under the belief that the failure of the refugee branch to comply with the removal of the treaty forfeited their share of the benefiits derived from the lands ceded at the time of the said treaty by these Indians. It was said also that the Wisconsin Pottawatomies re- siding in this country were entitled to about $447,339, and those in Canada to $1,500,000, which estimate includes the value of lands, annuities, etc., and interest, which the lefugee branch would have received had they removed. By the act of June 30, 1913 (38 Stat. L., 102), Congress, acting on the report men- tioned, appropriated the sum of $150,000 from the liquidated amount of $447,339, to be reimbursed therefrom when the principal shall be appropriated, practically all of which has been used in the purchase of lands in accordance with the provisions of said act of Congress. There remains due these Indians under the claim mentioned the sum of $425,672.33, which includes interest. The records of the Indian Oflace showthatfrom the $150,000 appropriated under the above act, the sum of $125,645.62 has been expended in the purchase of lands, $970 for salaries of employees, $740.76 for traveling expenses, and $28.49 recording fees, etc., making a total expenditure to December 31, 1914, of $127,384.87, No part of this money has been expended in the purchase of cattle, horses, lumber, or farm implements, and no appropriation was provided for 1916 under the joint resolution of Congress approved March 4, 1915, except the regular appropriation of $7,000 for support, education, and civilization of these Indians. The $100,000 item in the present bill as stated In the justification of the department, is for the purpose of building homes and clearing the land purchased for these Indians. An additional $25,000 should be appropriated in order to permit the department to train said Indians in the use and handling of money. These Indians, I understand, are greatly addicted to the use of intoxicants. Very few have any education or are even able to speak the English language. They are Ignorant and naturally are incom- petent to handle money wisely. 1 am informed by the superintendent m charge of these Indiana, that there would be no question if any money was paid them, it would all go for liquor. 632 INDIAN APPBOPEIATION BILL. I am constrained to believe, however, that this condition may be overcome. In fact, it can be very easily overcome by exercising the discretion which the amend- ment provides may be exercised by the Secretary of the Interior. If this amendment is adopted I trust the Secretary of the Interior or the Commissioner of Indian Affairs will not pei-mit said fund to be paid in one lump sum per capita, but will endeavor to use that money as a means of educating the Indians, the proper use of it. I mean by this that if a family of Pottawatomies were entitled to |200 of this appropriation, the superintendent In charge will pay to the responsible head of the family, say, $25, and require of the payee to bring vouchers or receipted bills showing for what purpose the 125 was used before additional funds are paid to said Indians. In other words, after the payment of the first .$25 the payment of a second installment in cash should abso- lutely depend on the first installment being used beneficially. I am certain the department will not object to having this $25,000 additional, and to test the plan suggested for the purpose of applying it to the administration of other trust funds which it controls, and trust you will be able to have the amendment adopted. With kind regards to you, I am, Yours, sincerely, Dennison Wheelock. Mr. Meritt. Justification for that item will be found on page 406 of the House hearings. The Chairman. Was it estimated for ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; not that particular item, but the justifica- tion for the appropriation. Senator Husting. Are we on Wisconsin items now ? The Chairman. Yes. ROAD RED CLIFF RESERVATION. Senator Husting. I have been asked by Mr. Lenroot to propose an amendment, at the end of the provision in Wisconsin, as follows : For the completion of the road on the Red Cliff Reservation, $6,500, to be reimbursed out of the funds of the Indians of said reservation, under such rules, regulations, and conditions as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. Now I have no personal knowledge of this matter, but I should like to ask Mr. Meritt whether the department approves. Mr. Lenroot assures me it is a meritorious measure and ought to be put in there. The Chairman. Is the road wholly on the reservation ? Senator HusTiNG. I presume so. There is a letter transmitted with this. Senator Page. Is that reimbursable from the Indian funds ? Senator Husting. That I do not know. That is all I know about it, Senator. I might send over for Mr. Lenroot if this committee is going to remain in session. Senator Page. If it is a gratuity appropriation from the Federal Treasury, I should rather be inclined to say it was wrong. What do you say about it, Senator ? Senator Husting. I do not say anything about it because I do not know anything about it. Senator Curtis. I do not think we ought to put it in the bill unless the department has something to say about it, and can say whether it is proper or not. Senator Husting. I thought perhaps the department knew some- thing about it. Mr. Meritt. We have begun the construction of a road on this reservation, but we are without ample funds to finish the road. IJSTDIAJSr APPROPRIATION BILL. 633 The road will be of considerable value to the Indians on that reserva- tion, and wiU also increase the value of their lands. I see no objec- tion to its being made reunbursable. Senator Gronna. Is the road on the reservation, or is it in con- nection with it, or adjoining the reservation ? Mr. Meritt. No, sir; it is on the reservation. Senator Page. With the understanding that the amendment is to be so drawn as to make it reimbursable, Mr. Chairman, I do not believe I will object. Senator HusTiNG. The department, I presume, knows whether that is the proper thing or not. I do not. Let it go that way, and if I ascertain that is not agreeable I wiU move to strike it out when it gets on the floor. I should Uke to file that letter for the record. (The letter referred to is as follows :) (First National Bank, Bayflelil, Wis. A. H. Wilkinson.) Bayfield, Wis., November SO, 1916. Hon. Irvine L. Lenroot, Congressman, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. Dear Mr. Lenroot: Regarding one of the matters referred to by you on your recent visit to our town, I wish to write you further in the hope that something may be done at the next session of Congress to help the situation. I refer to the finishing of the construction of the road on the Red Cliff .Reservation. The appropriation which you secured for this road work was appreciated by everybody interested, and particularly the reservation Indians, as they saw an opportunity opening up whereby they could make use of their allotments on the Red Cliff Reservation. The road has passed through the hardest part of the project, having had to cross over two very steep and wide ravuies. The balance of the road construction should be much cheaper. At least 110,000 should be secured to finish the project so that a wagon could traverse the entire 14J miles of the proposed road, or $15,000 to $20,000 if the road is to be built on the standard Unes approved by the commissioner of pubhc roads for the State of Wisconsin, Mr. Arthur R. Hirst. The entire roadway has been sur- veyed, and beside the 3 to 4 miles of road constructed, there has been cut out an addi- tional right of way, making the entire project worked over about 10 miles. You stated when you were here that you thought it unlikely that you could secure an amount sufficient to build a standard graded dirt road, so we have reduced our request to $5,400, which amount experienced road men think it will cost to construct a useful but ungraded country dirt road. The construction-of several woodea bridges and the traversing of the swamp stretch near Raspberiy, with the necessary fills, making this amount the minimum necesary to carry the road to the end of the right of way which has already been cut out. You and your colleagues should keep in mind that the work done on the right of way which has been cut out, but which can not be used because the road has not been stumped, crowned, or graded, is growing up to brush again and in a few years will be in almost as impassable a state as it was before the right of way was cut out. It is thought if this length of road is completed that in the new district opened up there will be enough lands sold and put upon the tax roll to make it possible for the agent to call on the town of Russell to construct the last 4 miles of the road, and it is hoped that you will do everything in your power to secure an appropriation to open up this roadway for the Indians of the reservation, as it is the only way they can make use of their lands, for until additional lands are opened on the reservation, whif^h will bring taxes into the town of Russell, there seems absolutely no hope of the town of Russell doing any work on the reservation. The county will do nothing. Last year they threw the reservation out of the county sytem because no taxes were coming in to help pay for the road work. You noted, with satisfaction the excellent use to which the new road has already been put, but, of coiu-se, you must realize that as the road is as yet a blind alley leading to nowhere in particular it can not reach its full use until the road is continued and can run either over a greater area or to some particular town or village. This latter condition, of course, can not be found on the reservation, but if the road is continued its full length the town of Russell would be willing, I am sure, to run i road to the 634 INDIAN APPKOPEIAXION BILL. reservation line in order to connect with it and give the Indians and white people living on the road on the reservation an opportunity to trade either at the towns on the west side of the peninsula or at the towns on the east side of the peninsula. You noted, in the short ride which you took, that already on the new read tliree tracts of land of 80 acres each have been sold to new settlers. That four housesand one cabin ha-\'e been erected; the four houses having been erected by the Indians, and the one cabin by a new settler, who will no doubt erect a good house after his place is cleared. I feel that no greater help could be given the Indians of this dis- trict than the opening up of their lands on the reservation, and as the agent seems unable to secure funds through his office, we were glad to have you visit us and we now request you to give such help as you can in securing a special appropriation for this road work. It is certainly true that until a main highway_ is run through the reservation the Indians will have no use of their allotments, and it will be impossible for them to earn a living on their allotments, which their office is encouraging them to do, for they will have no way of reaching them. a Inclosed are three photographs which should assist your colleagues in arriving at a favorable decision. Photograph No. 1 shows a view at the south end of the road where the most expenisve work on the project was met; a steep, broad ravine. This picture shows the excellent character of the road work after a year's use of the road. Photograph No. 2 shows a house which, since the new project has started, has been renovated, thoroughly repaired, and painted; the several acres surroundiag it cleared of second growth timber, and an orchard tract of 295 trees setout this sum- mer. This house is located just a quarter of a mile within the reservation. It shows the possibilities of the work along the new highway. View No. 3 shows a clearing made by one of the Indians on the reservation. It also shows his cabin where he went to live in anticipation of the construction of the road. This shows you the diffi- culties of making a home in this country, but it can be made much easier and less expensive if a road is run near his place. The main highway will run near enough to his place to give him a reasonable connection with the road by a short tributary or side road. I am sorry we haven't photographs of the other cabins which you saw in the new clearings, but if we have photographs made of these cabins we will send them to you. Very truly, yours, A. H. Wilkinson. December 6, 1915. Mr. A. H. Wilkinson, Bayfield, T/Vis. My Dear Mr. Wilkinson: I have yours of November 30, and you have put up the matter in just the way that I had in mind and in accordance with our conversation when I was in Bayfield. I will take up the matter with Senators La Follette and Husting in the near future and furnish them with copies of your letter. I suggest that you also write both of the Senators direct, stating that you have taken the matter up with me and that I have informed you that I will place all the facts before them. Very sincerely, The Chairman. It is agreed to. If thei'e is any objection it can be stricken ou t in the Senate. Is there any other item ? EXPERT FARMERS ON INDIAN RESERVATIONS. Senator Gronna. Some time ago, I think about two or three weeks, I called attention to an item which was in the Indian appro- friation bill last year relating to the appointment of a farmer on ndian reservations. The Chairman. Page 8, Senator, of the new print. Senator Gronna. I believe it is the same amendment that was offered by Senator La Follette last year. I do not happen to have the amendment here. The Chairman. Did you introduce the amendment. Senator ? Senator Gronna. I took the amendment from last year's bill. The Chairman. I have a copy of it here. Senator Gronna. Will you kindly read that report, Mr. Chairman ? You read much better than I do. INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. 635 The Chairman. The report is as follows, signed by Secretary Lane addressed to the chairman of this committee [reading:] ' Depahtment of the Interior. Washington, February 29, 1916. ilY Dear Senator; This will refer to your informal request for a report on the proposed amendment to the Indian appropriation bill, quoted below; "And provided further. That no money appropriated herein shall he expended on and after January first, nineteen hundred and seventeen, for the employment of any farmer or expert farmer whose salary shall be in excess of S50 per month unless he shall first have procured and filed with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs a certificate of competency certifying that he is a farmer of actual experience and qualified to instruct others m the art of practical agriculture, such certificate to be certified and issued_ to him by the president of the State agricultural college or university of the State m which his services are to be rendered, or by the president of the State aori- cultm'al college or university of an adjoining State." Under the provisions of this amendment all farmers now in the Indian Service receiving a salary in excess of 150 per month who could not procure a certificate of competency from the president of the State agricultural college or uni^'ersity of the State wherein their services are to be rendered, or of an adjoining State, wiU'have to be relieved peremptorily on December 31, 1916. It can not be ascertained from the records of the Indian Office what percentage of farmers would be able to procure such certificates, but I am of opinion that the percentage would be very small, and it is a serious question whether that service would be able to procure employees to take their places and to fill other vacancies as they may occiu- from time to time under the provisions of this amendment. The Indian Field Service is divided into four farmer districts for the purposes of examination and certification by the Civil Service Commission. District No. 1 comprises the States of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming; district No. 2, California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico; district No. 3, the States lying east of the eastern boundary of Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana and north of the southern boundary of Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey; and district No. 4, the States lying east of New Mexico and Colorado and south of the line above indicated for the third district. I am advised that only persons who have a. good knowledge of farming by irrigation are admitted to exami- nations held in districts Nos. 1 and 2. All applicants who have a knowledge of farming under normal conditions of rainfall may be admitted to examinations held in districts 3 and 4. The Indian Office has had little difficulty in securing a suffi- cient number of farmers for districts 3 and 4, but appointees have been drawn largely from the territory east of the Mississippi River, Great difficulty, however, is expe- rienced in procuring eligibles for districts Nos. 1 and 2, and wliile the requirement that appointees must obtain certificates of competency from the president of the State agricultural college or university of the State in which the appointee resides or of an adjoining States would doubtless result in procuring a more efficient corps of farmers, it unquestionably will increase the serious difficulty with which the Indian Service is 'now confronted in procuring sufficient farmers for the two western districts. The salaries of farmers in these districts range from .'jySO to $900 per annum, with a very few places at fl,000 and .|1,200. It is not probable that persons who can procure certificates of competency would be willing to enter the service at a salary of less than $900 a year, and it will probably be necessary to increase the salaries attached to all positions to that figure should the proposed amendment be adooted. The same difficulty, but in a lesser degree, will be experienced in procuring a suffi- cient number of eligibles for the two eastern districts. It is not believed that much difficulty would be exp3rienced in procuring a sufficient number of eligibles in these districts provided the minimum entrance salary can be raised to $900 per annum. There are a large number of positions of farmer and industrial teacher (the latter being appointed from the farmer register) in the schools in all tho districts, principally at the boarding schools, who receive a salary of $60 to $70 a month, and I fear that the Indian Office would be unable to fill these positions under the provisions of this amend- ment; moreover, it will prohibit the employment of Indians m such positions paying more than $50 a month, and a great many of the positions now carrying a salary of $50 to $70 a month are filled by Indians, as, under the law, the preference must be given Indians in all positions for which they are qualified. I realize that the object sought to be accomplished by this amendment is a meritori- ous one, particularly in limiting employment to the same or adjoining State in which the institution certifying to the employees' competency is situated. However, as the 636 INDIAN APPKOPKIATION BILL. amendment would unquestionably place the Indian Office in a position where it could not procure a sufficient number of farmers to instruct the Indians, I believe that its enactment into law would be detrimental to their best interest. Cordially, yours, Franklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Hbnuy F. Ashukst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. What will you do with the amendment, Senators ? Senator Gronna. I am very sorry to learn that the department has taken such action on a matter of so great importance to the Indians, and of such great importance to the American people. I shall not make any statement that can not be borne out by the facts, but I will say for the record that I can point out places where men are holding the position as farmer under present conditions who are wholly and totally incompetent. The Indians are our wards; we are expending the people's money from year to year, and we are making people believe we are improving conditions, when, as a matter of fact, we are not. Is there any business, or is there any man engaged in business, who would not avail himself of competent men if they could be secured ? And are we not led to believe that the great Indian Bureau refuses to improve conditions, when we notice that they are in such a deplorable condi- tion? It was suggested to me, Mr. Chairman, that it would be impossible for the Indian Bm-eau to select a different class of men for these posi- tions because they were handicapped by the civil service law. I am a fu'm believer in civil service laws, but I am unwilling to take incom- petent men from the classified service and impose them upon Indians, upon helpless people, and for that reason, Mr. Chairman, and gentle- men of the committee, I beheve that we should change this condition. With me it is a conviction. I know that we can make improvements in this respect and I have talked to the Indians themselves, and they have, time and again, asked me to help them along this line and see if it is not possible for them to get some one to instruct them who knows more about farming than they do themselves. That is all I care to say, Mr. Chairman. Senator Johnson. I want to corroborate all that Senator Gronna has said with regard to the inefficiency of the farmers on the reserva- tions in my State of South Dakota. You could not find a good farmer anywhere that would employ them in the capacity of managing a farm. There has been absolutely no improvement for the past 10 years in that direction among the Indians, and I have had hundreds of Indians take the matter up with me and ask me to help them, not only this year, but for the past 10 years, stating that they want to learn and want to irnprove, but they have no chance through the men that are sent out. I have a letter in my office which I received last night from a very intelligent Indian of the Crow-Creek country, touching this very question. I do not know him personally, but -I have sent to my office for that letter and shall read it before this com- mittee. I do not know how the rest of the members of this committee feel, but I know that I shall oppose any measure of that kind in this committee and on the floor of the Senate if necessary. The Chairman. You say you oppose this ? Senator Johnson. I oppose the conditions -that now exist. The Chairman. You do not oppose the amendment ? INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 637 Senator Johnson. I did not hear enough of the amendment to really know about that. I would not say until I have an opportunity to look it over. I should like to read that letter touching this very question Senator Gronna has raised. The Chairmax. When the letter arrives vou will kindly read it to the committee. Senator Curtis. I have not had an opportunity to read this report, but It seems to me the objections might be met by providing that those in the service now shall be left, but that changes hereafter should be along the lines suggested in the amendment, and also pro- viding that it should not apply to Indians employed in the service provided that this provision shall not apply to employees now in the Indian service, and I think it ought to go further, I think it ought not apply to Indian farmers who might be employed because of any special quahlications they have shown. They may not have gone through the agricultural colleges, and in some cases the boys from Cariisle and from Haskell have demonstrated that they are pretty good farmers. The Chairman. Is there any objection to that. Senator Gronna? Senator Gronna. I have no objection, but I do not think it would apply to Indian farmers. Senator Curtis. I raised the point because of what the Secretary says in this letter. Senator Gronna. That is simply a question of construction. The Chairman. He is the one who has to do the construing. He has construed it in advance, you know. Senator Johnson. I should like to say just a word in connection with that. The best service that the department could render the Indians in the way of selecting a boss farmer for them would be to select a man who can talk the Indian language; a man who is a prac- tical farmer in the particular location in which the reservation is situated, because we all know that all sections are not alike in their adaptability to farming. There is a large proportion of the Indians on these reservations who can not talk the English language. If you have an Indian qualified to fill these positions, which our reser- vations are full of, he could talk to those older people and instruct them, while the man who is imported from some other State, who has no knowledge of practical farming, is not able to instruct those men in the way they should be instructed. Senator Page. I should like to ask the commissioner two or three questions upon this matter before I vote upon it. Is there any limit to the sum that you can pay for a farmer ? Mr. Meritt. "There is necessarily a limit because of the amount appropriated by Congress. Our appropriations are limited, there- for we must be limited in the amount of salaries we pay to Indian farmers. Senator Page. Do you think we should comply with the sugges- tions of the Senator from North Dakota and the Senator from South Dakota and have a farmer who could pass the inspection of the agri- cultural colleges, and at the same time talk the Indian language ? Do you think that they could be procured for anything hke the price that you are now able to pay under your appropriations ? 638 INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. Mr. Meritt. Necessarily we would be required to employ Indian farmers if we procured men who could talk the Indian language on that particular reservation. Senator Page. How many of those Indain farmers do you think could pass the inspection, the examination, of the agricultural colleges ? Mr. Meritt. I would say the number is limited. Senator Page. Would it not be very limited, very few, indeed ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. Senator Page. I am sure that I agree with Senator Gronna in his desire that the Indians have better opportunities to become good farmers, but I am more certain, and it seems to me that it is a busi^ ness proposition, that you can not secure farmers who are Indians, who can talk the Indian language, and at the same time have passed through the agricultural colleges, and I should judge from your bill, Senator, that it was designed to fill these places by graduates of the agricultural colleges. I want to say more than that. I want to say that any man to-day who has passed through the necessary instructions and education they give in an agricultural college who could not get more than $800 or $1,000 or even $1,200 a year for his services would, in my judgment, very probably be branded as inefficient. If he was an efficient man he could go out in some other branch of service in life and get $1,000 or $1,200 readily. There would be no great difficulty in his getting a $1,000 place immediately upon graduation. Senator Gkonna. I will say for the information of the Senator from Vermont that I know personally men who have graduated from agricultural colleges who are not getting more than $75 a month right now. Senator Page. If you find that a man is getting less than that, is it not probable that he is not a very efficient man ? Senator Gronna. No; I do not think so. We are graduating boys from these agricultural schools by the thousands. It does not neces- sarily follow because a person receives very high pay that he is a specially well qualified man. Of course I realize that you can not keep them there for all time at that low salary, but they are glad to start in at a low salary. Senator Lane. I should like to ask you. Senator Gronna, if it would not be a good idea for the Indian Bureau to adopt to send numbers of the young Indian boys from the different reservations to an agricultural college and teach them theoretically, making that a part of their education? In the investigation made by the joint commission last year it was shown that the farmers on a good many reservations, on a number of them, such as were investigated, were mostly confined to clerical work. A great many of them never went out in the fields at all, or very rarely. I think that condition pre- vailed upon Blackfoot for one. They had an experienced farmer there, I think he was a good farmer, but he had not the time, or there was not enough farming going on. At Warm Springs, in Oregon, there were three farmers there, one a scientific farmer, I think they call him, and there was very little if any farming going on. They are asually engaged at something else, doing clerical work, working in the offices. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 639 Senator Gronna. I will say in answer to that that I believe the salvation of the Indians is to t:ach them vocations and trades. Senator Page. That is coining under a law that I hope will pass this session. We are going to see educated farmers, boys who do not have to have the college grades, boys who are actual practical farmers, who work on the farm and who work with a little education back of them, and with the instruction they will get from the college extension that will come under the Smith-Lever bill, they are going to be able to take these positions, but up to data we have not educated those boys. They are hardly starting in yet. I think in five j^ears that will be actually in practice. Senator Lane. I think, to begin with, that you are not going to make farmers out of many of them, because many of them are not farmers, but if you are going to try to do it, I think you ought to give them every opportunity to understand the business, to learn it. As we are domg it now the farming is a joke on most of the reservations. Senator Johnson. There is one thing. Senator Page, that I do not think many people realize through this country, and that is that the farming in Vermont, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Illinois, and through the middle west and the east, is not the class of farming that we have in the western and dry States. If you send an eastern man to western South Dakota to farm and he commences in the way that he has been educated in the State where he has lived, he wLll not farm there more than a j'ear or two until he realizes his mistake, and recognizes the way that that particular country must be farmed. Now then, in sending in a man as boss farmer, or under any of those provisions, they usually come from States where the conditions are identical to where this eastern man or middle western man moves there, and the result is they commence on the wrong theory or wrong idea and they make a failure, and by the time he leaves, another one comes who takes it up along the same lines. The result is, as Senator Lane said, if you were there you would realize it was a joke. Senator Page. I do not want to oppose the attainment of just exactly tvhat Senator Gronna and yourself seem to desire. The practicabihty of it, however, strikes me as being difTicult at present. Senator Husting. Why can there not be another proviso, provided if these are unobtainable, these men that Senator Gronna wants are unobtainable, then do the best we can, but give the preference to these men. Senator Page. I wiU agree with that if you wiU say where it is practicable to obtain such men, but I thiuk you have got to leave some discretion with the department. Perhaps you have studied this out and I have not. Senator Gronna. I am free to say, Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee, if you give too much power to the department the first come are first served. I think that has been demonstrated. Senator Lane. They are necessarily confined by the rules of the civil service, are they not. Senator, to select one of three ? I think the civU service law requires them, compels them to select one of the three first. , ,• t ^-l. ^ ■ ^-v. Senator Gronna. Yes; at the present time I presume that is the law I have no fault to find and it is the very purpose of this amend- ment to make it possible for them to get better men. That is the purpose of the amendment. 640 INDIAN APPROPKIATION BILL. The Chairman. Senator Johnson, you had a letter which you wished to include in the record ? Senator Johnson. I am very sorry to say it is not here. The Chairman. You will put it in the record ? Senator Johnson. Yes; I shall be very glad to. The Chairman. Do you wish to vote on this item now ? Senator Gronna. Perhaps we had better try to perfect it. Senator Curtis. 1 would suggest that at the end you add: Provided, This provision shall not apply to employees now in the Indian Service, and, provided, further, it shall not apply to Indiana employed or to be employed ag farmers. Senator Gronna. I shall be glad to accept that modification. Senator Page. I think it makes it practically absolute if you simply say: Provided, That this provision shall not apply to the employees now in the Indian Service. Senator Curtis. As the changes occur from now on they should be employed as provided in this amendment, but you would not be justified in discouraging men unless they were shown to be incom- petent, and if they were the administration can remove them, and as they are removed you could put in men that were qualified. The Chairman. Without the two amendments suggested I do not think we could get it through the Senate. The friends of the civil service would object so strenuously that they would defeat the amendment. . Senator Page. I think it is open to a point of order anyway, is it not ? Senator Gronna. I think it is. The Chairman. Is there any objection to the proviso with the two amendments ? Senator Page. Here is a suggestion which I will make. Suppose after the first word you should say "Provided, further, wherever practicable no money herein provided shall be expended" and then add Senator Curtis's amendment. The Chairman. I think that would strengthen it. Senator Page. Insert the words "wherever practicable" on the first line. I move that amendment be made, and also would be glad to see the amendment suggested by Senator Curtis, and, with those amendments, I shall be glad to vote for the bill. The Chairman. It is my personal judgment that those three amendments strengthen it, and that it will have a chance to pass. As amended, it reads as follows: And provided further. That no money appropriated herein shall be expended on and after January first, nineteen hundred and seventeen, for the employment of any farmer or expert farmer whose salary shall be in excess of $50 per month, unless he shall first have procured and filed with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs a certifi- cate of competency, certifying that he is a farmer of actiial experience and qualified to instruct others in the art of practical agriculture, such certificate to be certified and issued to him by the president of the State agricultural college or university of the State in which his services are to be rendered, or by the president of the State agri- cultural college or university of an adjoining State: Provided, That this provision shall not apply to employees now in the Indian service: And provided further, That this shall not apply to Indian employees in the service, etc. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 641 Senator Curtis. "It shall not apply." I think if you want to make this permanent you ought to say "hereafter," because if you put it in that way you have got to put it in every Indian bill in the future. If you say "hereafter'' then it becomes permanent law. The Chaieman. "And provided further that hereafter." Senator Page. "Whenever practicable." The Chairman. "Whenever practicable no money." Senator Johnson. I want to raise one objection to that. I think those amendments help it a great deal, but where you say "shall require a certificate from some agricultural college," I want to add to that "in the particular State in which the reservation is located." The Chairman. We have that "or adjoining State." Senator Johnson. That is the very objection I raise, that where agricultural colleges in the eastern States are not familiar with the dry farming of the western States. That is one of the main things, I thmk. Senator Page. Senator, he must receive the certificate from the State in the West. The Chairman. In the State in which his services are to be ren- dered, or an adjoining State. Senator Johnson. Why not then cut out the "adjoining State 1" You take the State of South Dakota and take the State of Iowa. Now, an Iowa farmer who comes from eastern Iowa and endeavors to farm in western South Dakota, in the same way as he farmed in Iowa, makes a failure of it. It does not take him long to learn it, and I would like to remove that one bad feature. The Chairman. It would have this effect, that the young man or farmer graduated from your agricultural school in South Dakota could not be appointed to fill a position in another State. Senator Johnson. I do not mean that. I mean a graduate from another State, where the farming is so different, should not be sent out and imposed on a State where he would not understand the par- ticular kind of farmmg in that State. That is what I mean. Senator La Follette. I would hke to ask the Senator it m the up-to-date agricultural colleges they are not instructmg the students at the present time in farming in its broadest aspect, dry larmmg as well as farming imder normal conditions in the east ? My impres- sion is that they are doing so at the Wisconsin State University and that a man that is turned out there gets aU you can get m an agri- cultural college on any subject. You have got to have some expe- rience, I suppose, and that is true of any of tliese young men turned out from these agricultural colleges, unless they have been reared on farms If they have been reared on farms, they have gotten a pretty good education as to farming within the scope of their experience as thev so along. But it is my impression, for instance, m the iowa iScultural College you will find^that the students there are being trSed in theories of dry farming so far as the hterature on that ^ISittSltN^K^VSn^^^^^^^ are largely right in that Senator La FoUette but they must not only have the quahfications from col- We but they mustlave the practical qualifications m the countries lege, uuu "^^J f„,.TniTiD- as I look at it, to make a success. SeLto7LT/o™fE. I think that'is true, but if they are we]l grounded in the theory, they would get at the practical side of it ih 31362—16 41 642 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. a few months, and particularly if tliey h^d been reared on fann.s, and nearly all the young men who take these agricultural courses come from farms in the State where they take them. Of course, at the Wisconsin University we draw from all of the surrounding States; we have students from. South Dakota, students from Montana, and students from the arid regions taking the agricultural courses there. That would not be true, perhaps, of smaller agricultural departments in the universities, or in small agricultural colleges ; but the suggestion of the Chairman that if you limit it to the State you would exclude, for instance, the graduates of the Agricultural College of South Da- kota from being appointed in Montana. Senator Page. Not necessarily, Senator, because it is presumable that a man who had passed through the Agricultural College of Wis- consin could receive the approval of the president of the Agricultural College of South Dakota. It does not mean that they must graduate from that State. Senator La Follette. I have not the terms of the proposed amendment before me, but I thought Senator Johnson was suggest- ing that the appointments be limited to the graduates of the States. Senator Johnson. The thought I have, Senator La Follette, and what I believe will be for the best interest of the Indian people, is to employ a man who is familiar, not only theoretically but practically, with the farming in that State, and who has had actual experience. Now, then, if this man that you spoke of over in Iowa or Wisconsin is familiar with the practice of dry farming, he certainly could get a certificate from the president of the Agricultural College in the State that he desired to go into, and without that I do not believe that those Indians or that State should be imposed on as they have been for the last 25 years. Senator La Follette. But when this amendment to the appro- priation bill of last year was put on for the first time, it was designed to do away with that old practice of asking men to conduct farms upon Indian reservations who not only did not know the climate and the soil of the territory to which they were assigned, but who did not know anything about farming. I have been on Indian reservations where men have been in charge of the farming operations, who had never seen a farm to work on it; never did a tap of work in their lives on a farm. Senator Johnson. You will find that all over the reservations. Senator La Follette. And had no more knowledge of conducting those operations than a bank clerk would have. But I question the wisdom somewhat of limiting these appointments to only a few irien, to only such men as can receive the certificate of a president of a local agricultural college. If he should happen to be a man somewhat narrow and somewhat provincial, and a man who decided, even though that agricultural college could not furnish anything like the adequate instruction other institutions were furnishing in preparing a man for that work, his tendency might be to withhold approval excepting as to graduates at his own institution. It would be a very strong incentive for the president of an agricultural coUege to do that. Indeed I think the pressure upon him of his own community would pretty nearly compel that course, and I would a good deal rather, if there was to be an approval of some State authority, that it INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 643 miglit come from one who would take a somewhat broader view of it than might be taken hj the head of the local institution. Senator Johnson. I would not object to that. The very thing that is discouraging in this Senator La Follette. I do not know but that with the provision in here the selections are to be made from agricultural colleges. I do not remember the wording of the old amendment Senator Page. It does not provide that they be selected from agricultural colleges. The Chairman. You have the amendment before you there, Mr. Meritt. WiU you kindly read it again? Senator Page. They have got to pass the examination of an agricultyral college, but it does not say they have got to be graduates of the college. The Chairman. The one appUes to the other. Senator La Follette. I presume they pass the examination, if fitted to take the appointment. Mr. Meritt (reading) : And provided further, That no money appropriated herein shall be expended on and after January first, nineteen hundred and seventeen, for the employment of any farmer or expert farmer whose salary shall be in excess of |50 per month, unless he shall first have procured and filed with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs a certifi- cate of competency certifying that he is a farmer of actual experience and qualified to instruct others in the art of practical agriculture, such certificate to be certified and issued to him by the president of the State agricultural college or university of the State in which his services are to be rendered, or by the president of the State agricultural college or university of an adjoining State: Provided, That this provision diall not apply to employees now in the Indian service: And provided further, That this shall not apply to Indian employees in the service. Then there were two amendments by Senator Curtis. Senator La Follette. What were those? The Chairman. One amendment provided it should not apply to the persons now in the service, and the other that it should not under any circumstances exclude Indians in the service or attempting to get into the service, and Senator Page's amendment provided that wherever practicable that it should be done. Senator La Follette. The amendment is somewhat weaker than I supposed it was. Senator Page. Do you not think it would be impracticable if we should commence to turn out every farmer in the Indian service ? Senator La Follette. No; it says "hereafter appointed,'" does it not ? It does not propose to remove them. The Chairman. The amendment is prospective, it is not retro- active. Senator La Follette. It does not remove them, although per- haps it would be a good thin^ if it did remove a good many of them. However, my impression is the department has gradually been mak- ing a reformation in that respect in the Indian Office the last five or six years. Perhaps it goes back further than that, but my knowledge of the matter goes back to about the time we made a trip over a number of those Indian reservations and saw the conditions. Is it not true, Mr. Merritt, that the Indian Office is seeking (juite radically to weed' out these farmers who do not know anything about the business ? 644 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; we have been weeding out the mcom- petent and impracticable farmers, and we have been stiffening the examination, and we also have arranged with the Civil Service Com- mission by which the country is districted and we get farmers from that particular district to work in that territory. I realize we have some farmers in the service now who are not up to the required standard, but we are gradually weeding those out as we can get others who are competent to take their places. Mr. Chairman. Is there any objection to it in the amended form? Is there any discussion? Senator Johnson. I wish to reserve my right on the floor of the Senate. I shall not vote now. I want to provide that these em- ployees, on Indian reservations, shall be selected by qualified people within the State where the reservations are located. The Chairman. Do you want to vote on Senator Johnson's amend- ment ? Senator Page. Senator La FoUette wants Wisconsin to have the right to furnish some graduate farmers, and I am inclined to think it may be true, Senator, that there will be a personal interest that is larger than we now see to push in the graduates of the particular school of a State. College presidents are about as selfish as other people generally in regard to their own students, and I am inclined to think if we allow it to pass as it is now that we shall be less liable to have a discussion on the floor of the Senate. Senator Johnson. I want my amendment to go in. If I can not get it in here, I shall offer it somewhere else. The Chairman. You can have a vote on it now. Senator Johnson. The very thing that is discouraging the Indians most is this inefficiency of employees in those capacities, and it has been so for 25 years. We have not advanced any. The Chairman. Do you want a vote on your amendment now? Senator Johnson. The disposition of all the members seems to be to vote against it. Senator Gronna. I will say, Senator Johnson, that I am not opposed to your amendment. Senator Lane. Neither am I, if it could be carried out practically. Senator Johnson. You see the point I am making. It is just the one point that I believe it is better for the Indians to have some man from their State who understands all the conditions, than to have a man who comes in from outside who does not understand the prac- tical part there and who will lose at least a year or two until he gets around and gets down to their own thoughts and gains a knowledge of their matters. Senator Lane. As I understand Senator Johnson's position, I quite agree with him, but I do not think his amendment would cover it. You take a farmer, let us say from an eastern State, and put him out in eastern Oregon or Arizona. It is all new to him, and he can not make a success of it. He is very fortunate if he does so in a year or two, whether working for himself or trying to teach the Indians, and you ought to have a man in those countries who understands irriga- tion thoroughlj and the other conditions that exist there. But whether this will accomplish it or not, I do not know. There might be a proviso put in there requiring that a person sent to any reserva- tion must be familiar with the cEmatic conditions and the methods INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 645 of farming in that kind of territory. That would cover it, would it not, Senator Johnson ? Senator Johnson. I think so. Senator Lane. Preferably, if possible. Senator Husting. The Secretary has expressed doubt as to whether we could get any at all. Now if you limit it to that State, practically, the chances of getting them are still less. The Chairman. We will vote on Senator Johnson's amendment first. Senator Page. I am willing to vote either way; I do not care par- ticularly about that, but I do say this, that I think if you leave it to a State and the adjoining State that you are more likely to have this biU passed in the Senate than you will if you leave it to one State. We must take into consideration the question raised by Senator La FoUette, that you may get some person in that State who will insist that nobody shall come in there unless he is a graduate of his school, and while I have no objection to the Senator from South Dakota trying in his way to accomplish this purpose, I should like to see something done, some forward movement made, and I am afraid it will not be made unless you waive some little objections all around here. Senator La Follette. I wish to correct one thing which Senator Page said regarding my attitude to this amendment, that I want it left in some shape to provide for furnishing graduates from the Wis- consin University as appointees under this provision. I utter a dis- claimer as to that being my purpose. The graduates of the agricul- tural department of the University of Wisconsin are going all over the world. Senator Page. I will withdraw it, Senator. Senator La Follette. You need not withdraw it. Allow me to make my statement. I know personally of numbers of graduates of the Wisconsin agricultural department who have been called away to the dry-farming States to take charge of large enterprises there. Senator Page. How many of these men can you get to go out in the Western States on a $600 salary ? Senator La Follette. I think a good many of them, as a begin- ning, would take positions at that figure. Senator Page. They are pretty cheap men, I think, Senator. Senator La Follette. You must remember that young men are looking for opportunities, not whoUy for wages — they demonstrate their ability and the matter of salary takes care of itself later. Senator Gronna. What is the average wage paid these instructors in farm work, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. About 1900 a year. We pay some as high as $1,200 and a few $1,400. ^ t t. n .. .t. . Senator Gronna. I said a moment ago, Senator La toilette, that I knew of cases where good, bright boys were glad to get $75 a month as a beginning. Of course, you could not expect to hold them there but they would be glad to get the position at $900 a year. Senator La Follette. Yes; to get the practical experience. Senator Gronna. WhUe we have a good agricultural college m our State we have rather a limited school, and we still send students to the Wisconsm Agricultural CoUege, but I have no objection to 646 INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BU-L. Senator Johnson's proposition. I think it could be taken care oi anyway. I think if the words "adjoining States" were stricken out that it would be possible for a president of an agricultural college or a university to give a certificate to any man who had the qualifi- cations. I take it the language "adjoining States" there means if they had a certificate from the adjoining State. Senator Johnson. I think that is the meaning. The Chairman. What shall we do with Senator Johnson's amend- ment? Mr. Meeitt. I should like to make a short statement here. The amendment as originally presented to the committee would have embarrassed the department considerably in the selection of farmers. The amendment as modified by the amendments of Senator Curtis and Senator Page wiU very materially aid the department in carry- ing out the spirit of this amendment. However, the amendment offered by Senator Johnson would very materially cripple the bureau, and would, I think, result in injury to the Indian Service, and we should like very much that that amendment be not adopted, which would require us to select farmers from the States in which the Indian reservations are located. There is another side to this question which perhaps has not been fuUy thought out by some gentlemen of the committee. We rdy very largely on the reports of farmers on these large Indian reserva- tions as to the sale and leasiag of Indian lands. I do. not care to cast any aspersions on any one, but it is possible in some of the States where we have many Indians located, that the white farmers selected to teach the Indians farming on Indian reservations might be interested in disposing of the lands of the Indians, or might be interested in leasing the lands of the Indians, where it would not be for their best interests. We should hke very much that that amend- ment be not adopted. Senator Geonna. I desire to say a word in reply to what the Assistant Commissioner has said. So far as the statement of Mr. Meritt is concerned, it can not apply to me because I have never leased, bought, or sold an acre of Indian land in my life and never intend to, nor have I been interested in leasing Indian land. It is true that I have bills pending in Congress now which provide for the leasing of land on the public domain but that is an entirely different StOTJ. Mr. Meeitt. My remarks Senator Geonna. I think Mr. Meritt could, being a man who is so well equipped with words, have selected language different from that which he did select, and especially if he had been a courageous man, he could have named the parties if he thought there were any person here who really was interested in leasing Indian lands. Mr. Meeitt. I will say Senator Geonna. I am not through yet. I will say, for the benefit of Mr. Meritt, that I deny that I, as an individual, have ever had anything to do with the leasing of Indian land myself, or trying to lease Indian lands for anyone else. Senator Lane. I wish to say that what I understood Mr. Meritt to mean Senator Geonna. I understand the English language. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 647 Senator Lane. What I understood him to say was Senator Geonna. I will ask that the stenographer read the state- ment of Mr. Meritt. Senator Lane. Just a minute. Mr. Chairman, I was not through. It did not strike me at all Senator Geonna. Mr. Chairman, I ask for the reading of the statement. Senator Lane. I was attempting to make a statement, if you will allow me to finish before that is read. Will you allow me to finish? Senator Geonna. Certainly. Senator Lane. I thank you. That there are certain employees of the Government who do interest themselves perhaps for the disad- vantage of the Indians. Senator Geonna. But they are not on this committee. Senator Lane. No; I do not think he had any reference to mem- bers of this committee. I did not so understand it. Senator Geonna. Then let us have his statement read. The reporter read as follows : Mr. Meritt. I should like to make a short statement here. The amendment as originally presented to the committee would have embarrassed the department con- siderably in the selection of farmers. The amendment as modified by the amend- ments of Senator Curtis and Senator Page, will very materially aid the department in carrying out the spirit of this amendment. However, the amendment offered by Senator Johnson would very materially cripple the bureau, and would, I think, result in injury to the Indian service, and we should like very much that that amendment be not adopted, which would require us to select farmers from the States in which the Indian reservations are located. There is another side to this question which perhaps has not been fully thought out by some gentlemen of the committee. We rely very largely on the reports of farmers - on these large Indian reservations as to the sale and leasing of Indian lands. I do not care to cast any aspersions on anyone, but it is possible in some of the States where we have the Indians located that the white farmers selected to teach the Indians farming on Indian reservations might be interested in disposing of the lands of the Indians, or might be interested in leasing the lands of the Indians, where it would not be for their best interests. We should like very much that that amendment be not adopted. Senator Lane. I would like to make a statement here. I want to say that in every investigation that we have had before the Indian commission it was shown positively that some of the officials or superintendent, or others, were directly interested in the affairs of the Indians to their own profit, and that was my understanding of what Mr. Meritt meant — that he referred to some conditions similar to that. Senator Page. I want to say for myself that I did not see at the time, and I do not see now, any reflection upon any Senator here. Senator Gronna must have some thought in his mind that does not appear to any of rest of us. ■ x Senator Geonna. Are you speaking for the committee or tor yourself, Senator? There may be others besides myself; I do not know. ,j , Senator Page. I have been trying to see how the matter could be considered as a reflection upon the Senator. The Chaieman. Mr. Meritt is the one who is supposed to have used the language which was offensive to the Senator. Mr Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, I think my language is perfectly clear, that it applies to Indian Service farmers who would be appointed 648 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. under this amendment and certainly not to any Senator or any member of this committee. If that thought has been conveyed by my language, I certainly repudiate the thought because it was not m my mind at the time I naade the statement. Senator Gronna. But you can not repudiate the fact that jon used the words "member of this committee." You are imputing that a member of the committee was ignorant as to the fact that such conditions have been going on. You can not deny that. Mr. Mekitt. I think the language used by me will make it per- fectly clear Senator Gronna. But you did use the words "member of the committee." . Mr. Meritt. I said in substance that perhaps some members of the committee had not considered the effect that this amendment would have so far as it applies to the Indian farmers. Senator Gronna. I want to say for your information that I am a member of this committee and I have considered it for one, so it does not apply to me. The Chairman. I want to say that any reflection upon the Senator from South Dakota or the Senator from North Dakota, or any other Senator would wound me. We, committeemen, fight with each other, but I am sure we have an affection for each other. I love the Sen- ator from North Dakota but I must say that I do not think there is the shghtest ground for any feeling that he has been reflected upon in the language of the Commissioner. I am sure that he is the last man that anybody would reflect upon. I took it to mean that there was a point that we had not considered, and I am frank to say that I have not considered it; it had not occurred to me. So I hope the Senator wiU feel that there was no intention to reflect upon him. Senator Gronna. I have said what I intended to say, Mr. Chair- man. I appreciate the kind words of the Chairman. Senator Johnson. I only want to say a word with regard to this matter. I do not think the intention of Mr. Meritt was to cast any personal reflection on any member of the committee, but I do know that it might be construed in that way. I have never leased any Indian land that I know of. I have bought some Indian land and I want to make the statement now that that land has aU been bought under the advertisement of the department, and because I was the highest bidder. I have always in season and out of season, coun- seled with the Indians not to seU their land, but I beheve the action of this department and the action of the department for 20 years back has been to force the Indians to sell their lands by their treat- ment of them, in handling their business in the unbusmessHke way in which it is handled, fi an Indian on the reservations in Soutn Dakota wants the magnificent sum of $10 or any other amount cf his own money that is held in the local banks, he must hitch up his team, he must drive from 10 to 50 miles or any other distance, and he must get an order and he must specify just what he wants to buy, and then maybe he gets his money and tnen maybe he does not. If he wants to buy a horse the boss farmer is the man who judges the horse. If the boss farmer says that that horse is not right the Indian can not buy him. Now, it does not take a very great stretch of imagination for anyone to realize the power there in the control of Indians Duying their stock. INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 649 This same thing applies if he wants any agricultural implements, from a threshing machme down to a rake; if he has not got the money he has to go and get an order and he has got to do it in that way and he has got to approach these superintendents with, it seems to me, about the same degree of fear that a beggar would step up to your back door and ask for a meal. What I want to do and what I shall do if it is in my power is to relieve the Indians of this great burden, and I want to make the state- ment here, and I shall make it elsewhere, that the greatest burden the American Indian is carrying to-day is the Indian Bureau, as I see it. There are 6,000 men lacking a few, according to their own report, who are employees and every time a question comes up about an Indian being capable of managmg his own affairs or his qualifications, these beneficiaries immediately set up a holler that they are not qualified. I do not blame the individual, but I blame the system of which he is a part, and I repeat I do not believe the statement of Mr. Meritt was intended for me. Mr. Meritt. Certainly not. Senator Johnson. I acknowledge I have bought some lands of the Indians, and have tried to explain to you gentlemen of the committee why I have bought them, and what, according to my best behef, is the reason that these Indians were compelled to sell that land. Senator Lane. I move that the language of Mr. Meritt in that respect be stricken from the record, and I would like to have Mr. Meritt state anything that he desires to state. Senator Husting. Leave it in. Senator Lane. I would like to have Mr. Meritt state frankly, which I think he can do honestly, that he meant no such thing. I do not think he meant any reflection whatever, and I move to strike it out. I will state to you. Senator Gronna, that there is no member of the Senate that I have a higher regard for than you. Senator Gronna. I will say that as long as I am a member of the United States Senate no man wiU put words in my mouth as to what to say, nor will he impugn my motives without resentment if resent- ment is due; I do not care whether it is Mr. Meritt or the President of the United States. Senator Johnson. That is right. Senator Lane. I am with you on that. . Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I believe that when this record is printed, it wiU be so clear that the language I used did not convey the meaning Senator Gronna has. interpreted it to mean; that there win be no further reason to strike the language from the record, and for that reason I would prefer that the language remain m the record, with this additional statement; that it was the farthest thmg from my mind to impute to any member of this committee that there was aiiy wrong motive in the' mind of any member ol the committee in offering this amendment. I have the highest regard for the Senator from North Dakota and I would regret that any language that I might use might hurt his feelings in any way. I disclaim any intention ot doing so, and I believe that when the language is read it will clearly appear that that was not in my mind when I used the language in question. 650 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. EDUCATION OF SIOUX INDIANS. Senator Johnson. Just one moment, if the committee will excuse me. I have a letter here that has been handed to me by Henry Standing Bear, one of our real splendid Indians on the Kosebud, in which he says: ^ ,^ r ^ ^„.„ Washington, D. C, March 7, 1918. Hon. Senator E. S. Johnson, Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. Dear Sir: In the matter of the appropriation for the education of the Sioux Indians, there are certain things that are very important to us, and on behalf of my people I beg to request that you bring them before your honorable body. ., . , In connection with the appropriation which comes from our tribal funds, ther^ should be incorporated a proviso in the bill which shall give so much as is necessary out of the money so appropriated for the education of individual Indians of our tribe in public schools, high schools, colleges, universities, or any other institutions of high learning which are nonsectarian. Very respectfully, Heney Standing Bear. The Chaikman. What item are we on now ? OIL LANDS IN OSAGE INDIAN RESERVATION. Senator Husting. Mr. Chairman, if there is nothing before the committee, I would like to make an inquiry at this point. My atten- tion has been called to the record of the hearings on the Osage oil lands. It seems that the record made at the committee meeting on February 18 was omitted from the printed record. I have the pro- ceedings in typewritten form of what occurred on that date, and I was wondering why this was omitted. The Acting Chairman (Senator Lane). Why was that, do you know, Mr. Clerk? The Clerk. No, sir. Senator Husting. I presume it was inadvertently omitted. It is on page 249 of the printed proceedings. The Acting Chairman. I have no knowledge of it myself. Senator Husting. My attention was called to it. On page 249 there was an adjournment to meet Friday, February 18, 1916, and the next hearing is on Saturday, February 19. The proceedings of the 18th have been omitted. That includes the offers of the bids that were made or purported to have been made to the Secretary of the Interior by the independent oil refiners, and it being a proper part of the record, and in the interest of accuracy, I would like to have it put into the record. I would like to have the clerk state, if he knows, why it was omitted. The Reporter. The proceedings of the 18th were transcribed and brought to the committee, and I am unable to state why they do not appear in the printed record. Senator Husting. I would Hke to have the clerk investigate the matter and find out why it was omitted. The Clerk. I have the original manuscript as it was sent to the printer and as it was returned from the printer. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 651 MENOMINEE INDIANS IN WISCONSIN. Senator La Follette. I desire to offer an amendment, and if it is proper to offer it, I think perhaps I had better offer it now. I caU attention to pages 95 and 96 of the new print of the bill. After the word prescribe" on hne 2, page 96, I offer the following: Provided that no land shall he cleared for agricultural purposes pursuant to the fore- going proposition except such lands as have heen heretofore completely and wholly cut over. i- .» j If it is not thoroughly understood by all the members of the com- mittee present I will explain it. Perhaps Senator Johnson, not hav- ing been on the committee last year, may not know just the situation on this particular reservation. Senator Johnson. It is entirely satisfactory to me. Senator, if you, as a Senator from Wisconsin, say so. Senator La Follette. I will simply say by way of explanation that we have a large reservation in Wisconsin that is wholly timbered except as to certain areas that were cut over some years ago, and we are working out a plan on the timbered portion of that reservation for preserving the timber and cutting at the present time. Under this plan only so much of the timber as is mature and ripe is to be cut, with a view of perpetuating the timber growth of the whole timber areas; but under the formerlaw, under the law that prevailed some 10 years ago, there were considerable areas that were entirely cut over. The Inmans were authorized under that law to log and sell 20,000,000 feet annually. Now, that is not very suitable for the production of timber at this time and could be better converted to agricultural uses. This pro- vision, as you find it in the bUl, makes an appropriation of $300,000 out of their fund to be expended at the discretion of the department in starting some clearings therewith a view to getting them some funds, and this amendment is to confine that operation to this whole cut- over land. There is no intention to have it interfere with the other plan that is being worked out on the reservation. Senator Johnson. It looks to be a very wise provision. Senator La Follette. The department approves it. The amendment was agreed to. SEGREGATED COAL AND ASPHALT AREA, CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW NATIONS. • Senator La Follette. I would like now to call attention to one matter that I think should be corrected, but I would not ask to cor- rect it in the absence of Senator Owen. It is on page 71 of the bill. I •will state what it is. Senator Owen is familiar with it and does not need any explanation in regard to it; you wUl see it at once, I think. There is a large body of what is known as segregated coal and aspiialt land belonging to the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. It has Deen the policy of this committee and Congress to withhold the coal lands from sale, it being believed that it is in the interest of the Indians that that should be done for the present. But we have enacted legislation heretofore providing for the sale of the surface of this coal land, and there has been a general acquiescence in that 652 INDIAN APPKOPKIATTON BILL. policy. I find a provision here which wUl permit the selling of the coal as well as the surface. The Chairman. That came over from the House. Senator La Follette. Yes; I do not think the committee would knowingly approve that. The provision is as follows: Ttat the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to use not exceed- ing $35,000 of the proceeds of sales of unallotted lands and other tribal property belong- ing to any of the Five Civilized Tribes for payment of salaries of employees and other expenses of advertising and sale in connection with the further sales of such tribal lands and property, including the advertising and sale of the land within the segre- gated coal and asphalt area of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations, or of the surface thereof, etc. Now that would sell the coal as well as the surface, and I, as one member of this committee, would resist that with all the power I have. I wiU, therefore, propose this amendment — not to be voted upon except when Senator Owen is here — that there be stricken out of line 21 the words "or of the surface thereof," and inserting after the word "the," line 19, the words "surface of the." That would limit the sale of that land to the surface of the segregated coal land, but would not permit the sale of the coal itself. [Senator Owen having entered the room, and Senator La Follette having read the proposed amendments — ] Senator Owen. There is a complication there. Some of these lands which are segregated were found barren, and it leaves, therefore, the land in a position where it will add nothing to it. Senator La Follette. Why do you say "found barren" ? Senator Owen. Because of the great depth and narrowness of the vein. It was found that the coal would not bring anything, and yet it would make the surface sell for less. I have introduced a bill to sell the coal and asphalt deposits — • Senator La Follette. Yes; I understood that. Senator Owen. And that has been introduced also in the House, and in due time we expect to bring that before the two Houses. So that feature wUl be determined, I take it. Senator La Follette. But such an undertaking like that ought not to be — Senator Owen. It it not contemplated. Senator La Follette (continuing). In an appropriation bill, but under this provision the segregated coal lands comd be sold, whatever may have been the purpose of it. Senator Owen. That is not the purpose. This is the purpose, and let me call your attention to this diflBiculty, and let me make it plain so as to cover what the difficulty reaUy is. There are 450,000 acres of that coal and segregated land. There are found to be only some 240,000 acres that are valu&ble for coal. Is that correct ? Mr. Meritt. That is about the acreage. Senator La Follette. But explorations have been made re- cently Senator Owen. Complete explorations were made. Senator La Follette. Which determined that the segregated area is larger than it should have been. Senator Owen. The Commissioner can explain that to you. INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 653 Mr. Meeitt. There was a very careful investigation made of the coal deposits in the segregated coal ar'ea ■ Senator La Follettb. That is true. Do you refer to the investi- gations by the Geological Survey ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. And under that investigation a certain segregation was made ? Mr. Meeitt. Yes, sir. Senator La Follette. And that segregation amounted to over 400,000 acres. Has there been a further investigation by the Geo- logical Department, and a report, which diminishes that area? Mr. Meeitt. The information we have in the bureau is that only about 250,000 acres are coal lands. Senator La Follette. I know. I am asking if that information is based on the report made by the Geological Survey, or is it such information as comes from unofficial scientific sources? Mr. Meeitt. I would not hke to make a definite statement as to that. Senator Owen. They have been actually selling the land of that segregated area and conveying entire title, as I understand, to tracts, but I assumed that it had no value whatever for minerals. Senator La Follette. Under what authority of law have they been doing that, I would like to know ? Mr. Meeitt. We have not been selling any lands within that area that are valuable for coal except the surface. Senator La Follette. Have you been selling any land whatever within that area other than the surface of the land ; and if you have, I would like to know under what authority of law the department has sold the land. Mr. Meeitt. I would like to consult the Indian Bureau before answering that question. Senator Owen. I am not exactly clear about that as I do not remember it myself, except that I am quite sure that that has been going on, and upon subsequent examination it was found that the Choctaws would lose if they undertook to sell this land which had no workable veins, reserving the mineral rights under the land because that diminishes the value of the surface. Senator La Follette. I imderstand that. Senator Owen. I am explaining to you what I imderstand to be the pohcy, and I think the facts will be found as I have stated them. Senator La Follette. I would hke to know upon what authorita- tive investigation it has been determined that certain of these segre- gated coal lands should be sold ? Senator Owen. The office will have to answer that, because 1 am really imable to answer it myself just at this moment. I think that has been the case. . . .,,,.■,■, .,,■ Senator Geonna. You really want a provision m the biU permittmg the coal to be sold in a certain area; is that the idea? ,.„ t Senator Owen. No, sir; I introduced it as an mdependent bill, in 1906 I think it was, Congress provided by an act that the coal should not be sold until further action by Congress. Senator Geonna. Yes, sir. „ , . , , • re . • Senator Owen. And because of that it would requn^e an afiu-mative act before Congress could sell the coal and asphalt, and that wUI be 654 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. presented, I take it, in due time. I iatroduced the bill some days ago. It was drawn by the Oklahoma delegation, and it will be submitted in due time. I iatroduced that bill, I thiak, about a week ago, and it went to the Interior Department, and I suppose after a while we will get a report upon it. We ought to get a report in the course of a week, I should say. The Chaikman. Shall the amendment proposed by the Senator from Wisconsia be agreed to ? Senator Owen. No; I do not want to preclude the Department from seUing the land which has no valuable coal because it would diminish the selling price to the Choctaws and Chickasaws. If we can frame an act so as to meet that poiut it would be satisfactory to me, because there is no intention, I am sure, to sell coal deposits through any indirection of language, if that is what the Senator is trying to obviate. Senator La Follette. I am trying to obviate any change in the existiag law in an appropriation bill. Senator Owen. You might put in a provision that that should not be construed to authorize the sale of coal or asphalt deposits. Senator La Follette. No; because that leaves to the discretion of the Indian Office the determination of what are valuable coal de- posits and what are not, and I do not recognize that the Indian Office IS competent to decide that question. That is a question that should be decided upon an investigation of the same character as that under which these lands were segregated. Senator Owen. I think their action was based upon the original investigation, but I am not sure of the details, because I have not expressly looked into it for some time. Senator La Follette. It would be throwing open the door here for the loosest sort of disposal of this land, to leave it to the discre- tion of a bureau that has no means at hand of determining that ques- tion, which has already been determined by scientific investigation, and the limits of the coal land fixed, which has been recognized by law for 10 or 11 years, and naturally we ought not to introduce in an appropriation bill any modification of that law and I do not think you intend to do that. Senator Owen. No; I do not intend to modify the language of this at all. I intend to modify the law which will be found in the bill which I introduced in the Senate. Senator La Follette. So if we leave this just as it is it applies to the surface of the-land. We wiU not modify that law except that the coal wiU not be sold. Senator Owen. I think we had better get a report on the matter and ascertain what the facts are about it, because I am a little bit cloudy about what has actually occurred myself. However, I think from the examination of the geological surveys they have ascertained that some of these veins which were very deep would have no com- mercial value at all and would diminish the selling price of the sur- face. But the department can answer that question so as to have it perfectly clear as to what their action has been, and upon what basis they have proceeded. I am not prepared to explam it. Senator La Follette. The law of 1906 reserved this coal land and prohibited the sale of it. Now, if the department has been INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 655 out certain parts of it and saying that it is not coal land and there- fore they may sell it because they have only a certain quantity of coal, based upon reports perhaps from interested persons down there, they have been violating that law, because that law has not been changed. Senator Owen. I am not entirely clear as to exactly what the scope or intent of the statute is, but my recollection is that the coal deposits were reserved until fm"ther action by Congress. Senator La Follette. The lands are known and defined, the boundaries of which are established, known and defined, and the segregated coal lands were reserved. Senator Owen. I think you will possibly find that when we come to the surface there was some modification of that statute. I am not entirely sure about that, but I do not beUeve the department •would make the mistake of violatiag the statute. 1 think there must have been some modification, but I am not quite clear as to what the facts are. Senator La Follette. I am very clear that if there was a modi- fication of it, it was not understood that there was to be a modifica- tion. . , Senator Owen. Mr. Meritt will know about that, i agree with Senator La Follette that in this Indian appropriation bill there should be no change in the statute. The statute which authorizes them to sell the surface should be considered at this time, so they would not change that, whatever it was. Mr. Meritt, when the sur- face of the segregated coal lands were authorized to be sold, I would Hke to know what, if any, modification was placed in that statute m 1906 reserving the coal and asphalt deposits; do you remember about that? ej. j. t Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; the act of February 19, 1912 [37 btat. L. 67], modified the original act to some extent. Senator Owen. I want to leave the statute just as it was. i do not want to change the statute one way or the other. The question whether this should be sold should be determined by Congress. Senator La Follette. If the language which I have suggested here is adopted, it would effect exactly that result— and sale of the land within the segregated coal and asphalt area of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nationfas provided for in the act of Congress approved February 19, 1912" and of the improvements m that act speciHed. That wi the act which provided for the sale of the surface, was it ""^Senator Owen. I think it also provided for the sale of coal land too, where the coal was of no value, but I am not sure of that, i will ^m. Meritt. T?ie act in question is found in 37 Stat., page 67, and is dated February 19, 1912. H^tl^Z^lt i^Kct^Sfd- '-'An act to P-vide Jor sale of the^urface of'the segregated coal and asphalt lands of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations,\nd for other purposes:" „ a rr>,a+ if the mining trustees of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations and tue Sec. 6. That if the nunin| trust j^j^jo^ity of the said trustees and appraisers three appraisers lierem proviaea lor ox ^ be profitably mined for coal or asphalt and fan be morttranugloll^^ the s^urface and the coal and asphalt 656 INDIAN APPEOPRIATION BILL. together, such tract or tracts may be sold in that manner, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, and patents issued for said lands as provided by existing laws: Provided, That this section shall not apply to land now leased for the i)urpose of mining coal or asphalt within the segregated and reserved area herein described. Senator La Follette. Mr. Chairman, I can not expect to amend this act as I have intended, but I offer this amendment to strike out in hne 21, page 71, the words "or of the surface thereof" and insert in hne 19, after the word "the" the words "surface of the." The Chairman. You mean the word "the" at the end of the line? Senator La Follette. Yes. The Chairman. The question is on the amendment proposed by the Senator from Wisconsin. Senator Owen. I object to that as changing existing law and being subject to a point of order. I make the point of order upon it. Senator La Follette. In what way does that change existing law ? Senator Owen. Just as I pointed out a moment ago; it changes the law of 1912. It excludes the sale of these lands. Senator La Follette. No; it provides that they shall be sold pursuant to' the law of 1912. Senator Owen. But the law of 1912 includes all the land as well as the surface. Senator La Follette. If it is sold pursuant to the law of 1912 Senator Owen. But you are limiting it here to the surface of the land whereas the law oi 1912 provides for the sale of the surface and the other also. Senator Lane. But there is a limitation in the law of 1912 that he may sell either or both. Senator Owen. But if you put these words in it would limit it to the surface and prevent the sale of the land. Senator Lane. But they have the right to do that now according to their own discretion. Senator Owen. The act of 1912 provides for the sale of the surface. Senator Lane. Or the surface. Senator Owen. Or the surface means both, the land or the surface, as the case may be. Senator Lane. It might, but it does not strike me that way. Senator Owen. The law of 1912, which has just been read, pro- vides for the sale of the land where the coal has no merchantable value. Senator Lane. Either or both. Senator Owen. But the language which the Senator suggests would exclude the sale of the land which has no merchantable value, and he has therefore changed the statute, and it is consequently sub- ject to a point of order. That was the very point Senator La Follette was making against me a moment ago, because he held that this lan- guage would change the law of 1906. Senator Lane. I have not read it. Senator Owen. Whether you have read it or not, the principle is the same. If we can not change the law of 1912 by an Indian appro- priation bill, we can not change the law of 1906. You can not hold that you can change the law of 1906 and can not change the law of 1912. Senator La Follette. I think. Senator Owen, you are absolutely INDIAN APPEOPKIATION BILL. 657 Senator Owen. They were obliged to use this language in order to conform to the law of 1912. The purpose of the Oklahoma delegation in the joint bill introduced in the House and Senate is to present to Congress the question whether this land should be sold. Senator La Follette. Can you tell me, Mr. Meritt, how much of this land bearing coal has been sold xmder that provision ? Mr. Meritt. A very small acreage, and the Indian Bureau will not sell any land that is valuable for coal or asphalt. Senator La Follette. Upon whom do you depend for a report as to what is valuable ? Mr. Meritt. We depend very largely on the mmiag trustees of tlje Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. Of course they are interested in conserving the properties of the Choctaws and Chickasaws. Senator La Follette. Is it not a fact that a great many of these Indians would have been very glad to have sold all this land and gotten the money, just as Indians so frequently prefer to do ? I understood the other day that there was a current expression among them as to the "high dollar." Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; that is true. EMPLOYMENT OF EXPERT FARMERS. The Chairman. Perhaps we had better suspend with this item for the present and recur to the amendment offered by the Senator from North Dakota. It was discussed at some length at last year's hearhigs, and it has been discussed for an hour this morning. Senator Gronna. If you will pardon me, it was really the amend- ment of Senator La Follette. I miagine that as it has been amended it may not be in as good form as it was. The Chairman. You will observe that on page 8 of the bill certain moneys are appropriated for farmers. It relates to a limitation how certain money should be expended, moneys appropriated for farmers, etc. The item is as follows: That the amounts paid to matrons, foresters, farmers, and stockmen herein pro- vided for shall not be included within the limitatiou on salaries and compensation of employees contained in the act of August twenty-fourth, nineteen hundred and twelve. It is to be found on page 8 of the new print. You wiU observe that, commencing on line 23, page 7, it reads: For the purposes of preserving living and growing timber on Indian reservations and allotments, and to educate Indians in the proper care of forests; for the employ- ment of suitable persons as matrons to teach Indian women and girls housekeeping and other household duties, for necessary traveUng expenses of such matrons; and for furnishing necessary equipments and suppUes and renting quarters for them where necessary; for the conducting of experiments on Indian school or agency farms deaisned to test the possibiUties of soil and chmate m the cultivation of trees, grains, vegetables, cotton, and fruits, and for the employment of practical farmers and stockmen, in addition to the agency and school farmers now employed; for necessary traveling expenses of such farmers and stockmen and for fuming neces- sary equu)ment and suppUes for them; and for superintending and directing farming and stock raising among Indians, $500,000. It is proposed to add the following: And vrovided further, That no money appropriated herein shall be expended on and^tl?^ January first, nineteen hundred and seventeen, for the employment of any fSmer or exp^ farmer whose salary shall be in excess of $50 per month unless 31362—16 42 658 INDIAN APPEOPEIATTON BILL, he shall iirst have procured and filed with the Commiasioner of Indian Affairs a certificate of competency certifying that he is a farmer of actual experience and qualified to instruct others in the art of practical agriculture, such certificate to be certified and issued to him by the president of the State agricultural college_ or uni- versity of the State in which his' services are to be rendered, or by the president of the State agricultural college or university of an adjoining State. The Senator from Kansas [Mr. Curtis] proposed the following as an amendment Senator Owen. I think "adjoining State" is rather too narrow. The Chairman. We discussed it at great length here and the Sena- tor from Kansas offered an amendment. Senator Owen. You did that on account of cHmatic conditions, I suppose. * Senator Johnson. Yes. The Chairman. Senator Curtis proposed that hereafter it shall not apply to any one now in office and that it shall not apply to anybody whether in the service or seeking to enter the service. The committee seemed inclined to agree to those two amendments, and the Senator from Vermont proposed another amendment to this amendment, adding the words "that whenever practicable." Now the Senator from South Dakota proposes an amendment — we do not observe the parhamentary rule here because we can not — ^he proposes an amend- ment to strike out that language "or university of an adjoining State," striking out the adjoining* State feature and limiting it to one State. There was a wide divergence of view. The Senator from South Dakota made a very excellent argument, submitting his views and other Senators expressed themselves also. Senator Owen. I could be "happy with either were 'tother dear charmer away." The Chairman. I think we ought to dispose of it one way or the other. Senator Gronna. I am very glad you approve of it. Senator Owen. I offered it thinking that it would be in the interest of the Indian to get a practical man to teach them how to farm. Senator Owen. I should object to the exception in favor of the Indian farmer instructiag when he did not have a certificate except from my knowledge of the modesty of the Indian character, and my knowledge that he never would be appointed unless he really had one of them. The Chairman. I should, in justice, say that the department has sent in a report unfavorable to the whole amendment. Senator Owen. That does not change my opinion about it. The Chairman. I simply say it is my duty to say that. Senator Johnson. Do you mean to the amendment of Senator Gronna ? The Chairman. To the whole amendment. I read the letter this morning from the Secretary of the Interior. What will you do first with Senator Johnson's amendment? It proposes to strike out "or by the president of the State agricultural coUege or university of an adjoining State." Senator Johnson. The trouble I had was this : I live in the State of South Dakota. The farming communities on the reservation are located in my State. The same conditions wiU not exist as they do in the State of Iowa or the State of Wisconsin or the onst.pm -nar-t r>-f INDIAN APPKOPBIATION BILL. 659 we could employ a farmer and his certificate should come from an agricultural college of our own State, he certainly ought to be quali- fied to be an expert in that particular State in which he had had years of experience and knowledge, rather than one who came from adjoin- ing States. Senator Owen. The reason, doubtless, of the Interior Department in not giving an endorsement to this proposal, is that it would prob- ably limit the field from which they might draw these employees. I have not seen the report, but I infer that was probably the reason, and while you may have conditions in one State, like South Dakota, where you have considerable agricultural development and where you have a number of people from whom these appointments could be made, still in some of the States I think the development of agricul- tural colleges amount to almost nothing, and it would limit those appointments and the Interior Department would not be able to get them at all unless you gave them a large latitude to take them from adjoining States because you can not find, I think, any State that would not have some State adjoining it that would have some degree of agricultural development and permit the Interior Department to have a sufficient field from which to draw in order to get these people. Senator Johnson. Why could I not add to the amendment, "this applies to the State of South Dakota only." Senator Owen. I do not beheve that is very good parUamentary practice because we would then have laws that would not be uniform. The Chairman. This whole matter is subject to a point of order and why discuss it further? We know that it is subject to a point of order, and I shall feel if it is limited to one State, very much like mak- ing a point of order, although I do not hke to make it against a brother Senator on the committee. Let us work with some end in view; let us do that which we can do. I pointed out the difficulties that would obtain in Arizona if you limited it to one State. I am sure the point of order wiU be made upon it if it is hmited to one State. Senator Johnson. I only suggest that for the reason that I feel I know so well the conditions in our particular State. That was the only object I had in suggesting that, but I stiU maintain that I shall vote for my own amendment. Do you mean to say, Mr. Chariman, that all of these amendments will be subject to the same point of order ? The Ohaieman. They are clearly subject to a point of order. Senator Johnson. Senator Gronna's amendment also ? The Chairman. Oh, yes; I shall not make it and I hope nobody else will. I think it is a good amendment with Senator Curtis' amend- ment attached to it. Let us vote on Senator Johnson's amendment first. ,, The question being taken, resulted in yeas 1, nays 1, as follows: Yea, Senator Johnson. Nay, Senator Ashurst. So the amendment was disagreed to. The Chairman. The next question is on the amendment proposed by Senator Curtis. . r. . -n > j + Senator Gronna. I accept that and Senator Page's amendment Then the question is on the amendment proposed by the Senator from North Dakota, as amended, as I have stated. (The amendment was agreed to.) 660 INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. SCHOOLS ON ROSEBUD, CHEYENNE KIVER, AND STANDING ROCK AGENCIES. Senator Gronna. May we turn to page 82 for just a momeijt. Mr. Chairman, I suggested to the committee yesterday the advisability of appropriating a sufficient amount of money to build school houses and equip them and to employ teachers for the civihzation of Indian chil- dren on the Rosebud, Gheyenne River, and Standing Rock Agencies, or wherever those tribes of Indians may be found. The committee was kind enough to perfect the amendment as I understand it. It was imanimousiy adopted. I want to read the amendment so that it shall go into the record. It is on page 82, beginning with Une 7 : « That the Secretary of the Interior be and he is hereby authorized to provide adequate- Bchool facilities for Indian children now without Government of public-school facilities in the Sioux Indian country, and there is hereby appropriated |250,000 for this pur- pose, which shall include the purchase of necessary sites, to be immediately available. Senator Owen. The word "of" on line 9 should be "or," should it not — "without government or public school facilities"? Senator Gronna. It should be " or" ; yes. Senator Owen. And the hyphen should be stricken out between the words "public" and "school"? Senator Gronna. Yes. That is correct. My purpose in offering this amendment was that after this year there shall be no further appropriations to be paid to the denominational schools for educa- tion and civilization of these Indians. I want to ask Mr. Meritt this question: If this amendment is enacted into law, that is, if it remains in the bill, what will be the attitude of the Indian Bureau? WiU your estimate be made for an amount necessary to carrj^ on these public schools or will the item again be estimated for providing for an appropriation for denominational schools ? Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, if this amendment is incorporated in the appropriation bill as finally passed, we wUl carry out the provisions of the law and next year in our estimates we will ask for additional appropriations to provide for the children who will attend these schools as authorized by this bih. I would not like at this time to state definitely for the department what action will be taken by the department on the question of extending the Sioux treaty provision, and asking for estimates in connection with the $200,000 heretofore carried in the Indian appropriation bill. Senator Gronna. Will there be any necessity for extending that treaty provided this amendment remains in the bill, and provided also that we appropriate enough money to take care of these different schools, providing them with teachers and other necessary expenses ? Senator Johnson. You mean the appropriation of this $200,000 ? Senator Gronna. Yes. Mr. Meritt. It would not be necessary to use any of the $200,000 for mission school purposes in the event that this item is carried in the bill this year. I have a table here showing the number of pupils in mission schools and the cost and the name of the schools, and if agreeable I would be glad to have it put into the record. The Chairman. That will be inserted in the record. Mr. Meritt. The table referred to is as foUows: INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 661 Contract schools with the bureau of Catholic Indian missions, fiscal year 1916. Name of school. No. of pupils to be con- tracted for. Tribe. Cost per cap- ita per an- num. Total amount con- tract. Fund. Holy Rosary Mission, Pine 225 280 20 50 6 Sioux S108 108 108 108 108 $24,300 30,240 2,160 5,400 648 Education, Sioux Nation Eidge, S. Dak. St. Francis Mission, Rose- ■ bud Reservation, 8. Dak. Do Rosebud Sioux Pine Ridge Sioux. , . Crow Creek Sioux... Lower Brule Sioux.. South Dakota, 1916. Interest on Sioux Fund, Pine Eidge (Education). Proceeds of Rosebud Reser- vation, S. Dak., act of Mar. 2, 1907 (statute). Interest on Sioux Fimd, Rosebud (Education). The Immaculate Concep- tion Mission, Crow Creek Reservation, S. Dak. Do South Dakota, 1916. Education Sioux Nation, South Dakota. Lower Brule (Education). 581 62, 748 The Chairman. The question is on the amendments suggested by the Senator from Oklahoma. The amendments were agreed to and the item as amended was agreed to. PAYMENTS TO RESTRICTED INDIANS. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I desire to call attention to page 69, line 14, where the language is as follows: Provided further, That in cases where such enrolled members or their heirs are Indians who by reason of their degree of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Secre- tary of the Interior may, in his discretion, withhold such payments and use the same for the benefit of such restricted Indians: I think the words "by reason of their degree of Indian blood" should be stricken out, so as to have it read "Indians who belong to the restricted class," since the law provides certain cases where, re- gardless of blood, they may be restricted. The Chairman. The Senator from Oklahoma proposes that on line 15 the words "by reason of their degree of Indian blood" shall be stricken out. The amendment was agreed to. EDUCATION OF INDIAN CHILDREN. Senator Johnson. Mr. Chairman, I want to offer an amendment to the former appropriation and explain to the committee m ottering it that I have had the appropriation criticised by some oi the leadmg Indian educators in our State, men who ^aje given theu' hietime to the ministry and matters of this kind, and I would like to otter, for that reason, this amendment: Provided That any schools now open or which may hereafter be opened on a,ny of thflndian resen^ations, for the education of Indian children, shall receive their pro rata amount of this appropriation. 662 INDIAN APPEOPBIATION BILL. The Chairman. That is of the $200,000 ? Senator Johnson. Yes. I offer that amendment and urge its adoption if satisfactory. Tne amendment was agreed to. The Chairman. Is there any other matter which we should take up in connection with the bill? SCHOOLS OF CHICKASAW, CHOCTAW, CREEK, AND SEMINOLE NATIONS. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call the attention of the committee to page 72 of the bUl, to the proviso which reads as foUows: ^ And provided further, That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby empowered to expend funds of the Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole Nations available foi school purposes under existing law for such repairs, improvements, or new buildings as he may deem essential for the proper conduct of the several schools of said tribes. That might perhaps be regarded as a perpetual authority, and I wish to limit it to the fiscal year ending June 30, 1917, and therefore move, on line 1, after the word "empowered" to insert the words "during the fiscal year ending June 30, 1917." The amendment was agreed to. The Chairman. That closes up everything we have in the biQ. IRRIGATION SYSTEM, PAPAGO INDIAN RESERVATION, ARIZ. Mr. Meeitt. Mr. Chairman, Senator Lane raised an objection to the irrigation item ta Arizona, to be found on page 20, line 18, of the reprint. I observe that the item is already in the bUl. The Chairman. I desire, for the benefit of one member who was not present at the time that was discussed, to ask are there anj white rights involved in that matter. Mr. Meeitt. No, sir. The Chairman. No whites are involved, simply the Indians? Mr. Meritt. It is exclusively an Indian project. The item referred to is as follows: For enlarging the irrigation system for the irrigation of Indian lands, for protectivi works to prevent damage to irrigable lands by floods, and for development of domeBti( water supply on the Papago Indian Reservation, in Arizona, in accordance with th( plans and specifications submitted by the chief engineer of the Indian Service ant approved by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior $70,000, to remain available until expended: Provided, That the cost of said projec shall be reimbursed to the United Stated in accordance with such rules and regulation as the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe. OIL LANDS IN OSAGE INDIAN EES'ERVATION. The Chairman. I desire to advert to the Osage hearings. In pre paring the record of the hearings on the Osage lands you wiU observ that on page 249 it is stated, "Accordingly, the committee adjourne( until to-morrow, Friday, February 18, 1916." Through some mis fortune or misadventure the proceedings of Friday, the 18th, have bee: omitted from the printed record. It consists of some six or seve: pages of typewritten matter. That matter may come up in the Senat to-day, and I would Mke to have permission to have the hearin INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 663 ra^r? ^ *^^ Congressional Record or as an appendix to the original repoTtV''" ^^''''' ^^ ^^"""^^ '* ''''* ^' P"* ^^ ^^ ^'id^^da to the The Chairman. With the authority of the committee, I will do that. PER CAPITA PAYMENTS TO CHOCTAW AND CHICKASAW TRIBES. Senator Owen. Mr. Chairman, on page 68 of the reprinted biU I notice the difference m the language used in the Choctaw and Chicka- saw per capita payments, there being a provision for a pQr capita pay- ment of $300 to the Choctaws and S200 to the Chickasaws, whereas, fonn " ""^ the Semmoles, the language used is "not to exceed ! ^,^^ ^^'^^^ *^^* ^^^ ^ead simply " $300," striking out " not to exceed"? ^ Mr. Meritt. We have no objection to that amendment, inasmuch, as we have ample funds to pay the Indians. Senator Owen. I move to strike out the words "not- to exceed" on Ime 11, page 69. The Chairman. We want to amend it as little as possible. Then we will sunply amend the amendment, but you would not seek to amend the other. Senator Owen. No; I do not seek to do that. The amendment was agreed to. Senator Owen. I move that we report the bill. Mr. Meritt. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have permission to go oyer the bill very carefuUy and compare it with our estimates, and if there are any typographical errors I would like to have per- mission to call the same to the attention of the chairman so that they may be corrected. Senator Owen. Subject to such changes, I move that the commit- tee now report the bill. Senator Gronna. Just a moment. The Chairman. I desire to state that Senator Lane sends word up from the Senate saying that he has no objection to that Arizona item. INDIAN school, PLANDREAU, S. DAK. Senator Owen. Senator Johnson states that he has a South Dakota item that has not been disposed of. The item referred to is as follows: Sec. 22. For support and education of three hundred and sixty-five Indian pupils at the Indian school at Flandreau, South Dakota, and for pay of superintendent, $62,955; for general repairs and improvements, |6,000; in all, 168,955: Provided, That the unexpended balance of the |10,000 appropriated by the act approved August first, nineteen hundred and fourteen, for repairing buildings and replacing equip- ment destroyed or damaged by the tornado of June tenth, nineteen hundred and fourteen, at Flandreau Indian School, South Dakota, is hereby reappropriated and made immediately available for the purchase and installation of a water tank and the purchase of dairy cattle for said school. 664 INDIAN APPKOPRIATION BILL. Senator Johnson. I desire to state to the committee that I i"®" ceived a letter this morning from Mr. Thomas Kelley, president oi the First National Bank of Flandreau, South Dakota, as follows: [The First National Bank of Flandreau.] Flandreau, S. Dak., March «, 1916. Hon. Edward S. Johnson, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. Dear Sir: I have just wired you as to the appropriation for the Indian school here, as follows: • ■ -u i. "Error appears to have been made in Indian appropriation bill m the house by which the Flandreau School loses fourteen hundred fifty-five dollars support fund, basing amount due on one hundred sixty-seven dollars per capita enrollment. This reduction will seriously interfere with efficiency of school . Would urge that correction be made in Senate." Supt. Peirce called my attention to this matter and he has also wired* the Indian Office calling their attention to the mistake, and I trust that it is not too late to have the same rectified by the Senate committee or on the floor of the Senate. It seems that the Indian Office bases the appropriations for the different schools at the rate of $167 per capita and then adds the salary of superintendent to the lump sum. The correct amount for support of 365 pupils at $167 each would be $60,955, which added to the salary of superintendent, which is $2,000, would make the amount due, the school here $62,955, instead of $61,500 as allowed by the House bill. This difference would buy a good many tons of coal for our cold winters and I trust that no discrimination will be made against our school here at Flandreau. Very respectfully, yours, Thos. Kellbt. He follows that with this telegram: Superintendent Pierce called my attention to this matter and he has also wired the Indian Office calling their attention to mistake, and I trust it is not too late to have the same rectified by the Senate committee or on the floor of the Senate. The Chairman. That has been done already. Senator, as appears on page 80, line 9. Senator Owen. You will find that $1,455 has been added. Senator Johnson. Very well. EXPENS06 TO WASHINGTON OF CROW CREEK INDIANS. Senator Johnson. Mr. Chairman, I desire to state to the com- mittee that Mr. Homer Clark has been attending upon the committee for some time. He came to Washington as a representative of the Crow Creek Indians; they having paid his expenses to present a mat- ter before this committee. That is a matter with regard to the inter- Ereter for the agency there. I am not posted in this matter and only now what Mr. Clark has stated to me. He states, however, that that is the only reservation in South Dakota that has not an inter- preter; that there are many old people there, people who can not talk the English language, and that it is specially desired to have an interpreter appointed there. Senator Owen. The assistant commissioner says he can do that without any legislation. Senator Johnson. At what salary ? Mr. Meritt. We pay anywhere from $25 to $40 a month. Mr. Johnson. I was on the point of asking with regard to this, that a salary of $40 a month be allowed them for their interpreter. As I have stated, I am not familiar with the facts there, and only know of them as he has advised me. I will say that he is a very reliable INDIAN APPROPEIATION BILL. 665 Indian and I have implicit confidence in what he tells me and I hope that the committee may make that recommendation. The Chairman. You can detail an interpreter for that reservation, can you not, Mr. Meritt ? Mr. Meritt. We can employ an interpreter out of the funds now- available. The Chairman. You have ftmds available for that piu-pose ? Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir. The Chairman. Senator Johnson suggests the necessity for an interpreter there. It will not require legislation if the biireau will take care of it. The bureau has funds for that purpose and will do so. allotments to married women, crow creek. Senator Johnson. In the allotments that were made, I think, in 1891, 1 am not absolutely positive as to the year, the married women of the Crow Creek Indians never received any allotments. There are, as I understand, about eighty or ninety of those old women living yet who have not had the advantage of the allotments, which, as I under- stand, all Indian reservations have had. Senator Owen. They ought to have them. Senator Johnson. I want to recommend very earnestly that sonie provision be made for allotting those women and giving them their rights, if consistent with the present law. The Chairman. Is there any land that could be used for that purpose, Senator Johnson ?. Senator Johnson. WeU, there is not a great deal of good land as I understand it on their reservation left. There is a lot of gumbo fields and land that is practically useless for everything except stock raising. There are great patches on the sides of the hills that are perfectly black and which have not and never had anything growing on them. Such land as that has no real value. In fact, ii I was offered a quarter section of it and could not get more than enough to pay taxes, I would not take it. I have not been over the reservation and investigated this matter and only know so far as has been reported to me by very rehable authority that that is the condition, and that there are about 25 quarter sections of this land left. That is not a matter of my own knowledge but I rely on what the reverend Mr. Clarkson has told me. The Chairman. What do you say about this, Mr. Meritt ? Mr' Meritt. Practically all of the land in that reservation ol any value has been aUotted. Under the law we were required to aUot to heads of famihes. There were some Indian women whose hus- bands have since died and they were not allotted lands directly. Senator Owen. Could you allot them land somewhere « Mr Meritt. No, sir; because the Indians on the other reserva- tions would obiect to taking their land without compensation. Senator Owen. Could you negotiate with some other Indians so as to get allotments for them? Mr Meritt We probably might aUot them on the public domain, and I wiU be glad to take that up with Senator Johnson and work ^^Senato^OwEN. They ought to be allotted on the pubhc domain. 666 INDIAN APPROPBIATION BILL. Mt. Meritt. We may be able to work the matter out in thi omnibus legislation which is now in the House. Senator Johnson. Then I -may say to them, Mr. Meritt, that yoi will take immediate action on this matter and do the best you can Mr. Meritt. Yes, sir; I will write you a letter on the subject an( give you full information, and if we can draft any legislation to hi inserted in the omnibus biU I wiU be glad to do so. The Chairman. I hope that wiU be satisfactory to you. Senate: Johnson. Senator Johnson. It is. I would like to ask this question: Is i understood that this interpreter for the Crow Creek people will b* appointed ? • Mr. Meritt. I wiU take the matter up with the Office, and if then is no interpreter there I will see that an interpreter is employed. arikara, geos ventre, and mandan tribes. Senator Gronna. Mr. Chairman, I desire to call attention t( Calendar No. 109, Senate biU 4526, authorizing the Arikara, GrOi Ventre, and Mandan tribes of Indians to submit their claims to tb Court of Claims, and I desire to make a short statement. I think it was the position that the committee took not to hav any more legislation on the Indian appropriation bill than possible I see, however, that there are quite a number of items here whicl are purely legislation, such as the irrigation projects in Montana and I desire to submit to the committee if it would be proper to pu into the bill legislation which I have pending before the committee which only provides for the taking of certain claims to the Court o Claims. I have a copy of the report of the Secretary of the Interio on this subject which I wiU ask be printed in the record, so that th matter may not be misconstrued. (The letter referred to is as follows:) Department of the Interior, Washington, February 29, 1916. My Dear Senator: I am in receipt of your letter of February 18, 1916, transmi ting for report a copy of Senate 4526, authorizing the Arikara, Gros Ventre, and Manda tribes of Indians to submit their claims to the Court of Clauns. The purpose of the bill is to permit these Indians, who belong to the Fort Berthol Keservation, N. Dak., to have their claims against the Government adjudicated h the Court of Claims. Several bills have heretofore been introduced in the Congre to confer jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear and determine the claims of number of Indian tribes. These bills have been reported on favorably, as no obje' tion was seen to the enactment of such legislation, especially as the interests of tl Indians and of the Government therein were properly safeguarded and protected. As the present bill also meets the necessary requirements of protection, as indicatei I see no objection to its enactment. Cordially, yours, Franklin K. Lane, Secretary. Hon. Henry F. Ashurst, Chairman Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate. Senator Owen. There is this difficulty which I think we woul encounter: When the Indian bill becomes conspicuous for the itali( which appear running through it, and it becomes evident to the vai ous members of the Senate that a number of legislative items are beii put on that bill, it will certainly incite some gentleman who does n( INDIAN APPEOPEIATION BILL. 667 like that method to make a point of order against everything on the bill. It is a good deal like taking a boat that is just about to the water's edge and putting one more pound in it. For that reason I have refrained from asking similar items. I have here favorable reports in the case of the Pawnees, in the case of the Shawnees, and the case of the Osages, and also in the case of the Loyal Creeks, authorizing them to go to the Court of Claims, but I thought it would be better to wait until the omnibus bill came, which would take care of those items as one proposition before the Senate, and in that way take care of them. I believe you will find it better for your own interests, as well as that of the bill, not to ask that it go on this bill. Senator Geonna. There is a great deal of merit in what the Sena- tor has stated and if it will in any way embarrass the committee, I shall not ask it. I shall, however, ask for a favorable report on this bill if the committee has no objection. The Chairman. There is no objection whatever. Senator Geonna. Of course I will not do that before we get through with the bill. The Chaieman. I hope the committee will now authorize the Senator from North Dakota to make a favorable report on that biU. Senator Owen. I move that the Senator be authorized to make a favorable report. The motion was agreed to. Senator Owen. In those cases to which I have referred I have the favorable reports of the Interior Department, and I shall be glad to be authorized to make an independent report so that when it does come up on this omnibus bill it may be disposed of as part of that bUl. The Chairman. Do you desire to be authorized to make such report ? Senator Owen. I would hke to be authorized to make the report. I have them right here. The Loyal Creeks, matter has been reported upon over and over again for some years, but somebody has always made a point of order upon it. The Chairman. The matters referred to by the Senator Irom Oklahoma will be reported favorably to the Senate. Senator Owen. That is Senate Bill 1098. The Creek equahzation was S. 1096. The Ottawa tribe is S. 4260. In every case m making these reports, of course, the action of the Department is set f orth m full. The Ponca tribe wish to intervene ia the suit filed by the Omahas, which is already pending as Senate Bill 4251. The Chaieman. You will also report that favorably— b. 4251. Senator Owen. I have not given the number of the Loyal Creels case, but the clerk of the committee will furnish that. The Chairman. Gentlemen, that concludes the hearings. 1 want to thank you all for the forbearance you have exercised toward the Chairman, and to also thank you, Mr. Assistant Commissioner Mr Meritt. I desire to avaU myseH of this opportunity to thank the Chairman and also the other members of the Committee for their kindness, consideration, and helpful cooperation (The committee thereupon, at 1 o'clock and 5^ mmutes p. m., adjourned.) PRESENTED HARTWICK COLLEGE INDEX. Industrial work 28 Kappler, Charles J., compensation of 497 Destitute Indians 144 Tribal funds, statement of Secretary 171 Suppression of liquor traffic among Indians 6 Keheving distress and prevention of , etc 6 Expert farmers on Indian reservations 634-657 Indian schools, support of 20 Indian school and agency buildings ' 23 Expenses to Washington, Crow Creek Indians 664 Purchase and transportation of Indian supplies 29 Allotments to married women. Crow Creek 665 Telegraphing and telephoning, Indian Service 30 Court costs, etc : 30 Pay of Indian police 30 Indian holdings, individualizing of 610 Pay of judges, Indian courts 30 Payment pro rata shares to Indians 539 General expenses, Indian Service 31 Bight of nomination and election by Indians of agents or superintendents 610-625 Inspectors, Indian Service 32 Payments to restricted Indians 661 Determining heirs of deceased Indians 33-255 Denominational Indian schools .' 611 Education of Indian children 661 Industry among Indians 34-87 Sloan, Thomas L., statement of 42 Emigration to Texas .- 44 School at Phoenix 123 Vehicles, Indian Service , 44 Father John, payment to heirs of 45 Cattle infected with durine 513 Goods, supplies, etc., for Indian Service 618 Buildings for educational purposes 45 Sectarian schools: Crafts, Wilbur F.— Statement of 264 Correction of statement of 540 ABIZONA AND NBW MEXICO. Diversion Dam, Gila River 283 Indian school. Fort Mojave, Ariz .- 46 Indian school, Phoenix, Ariz 4b Indian school, Truxton Canyon, Ariz 4b Maintenance irrigation system, Pima Indian lands 47 Irrigation system, Colorado River Reservation 48-185 Water supply for Papago Indian villages 51 Irrigation, Papago Indian Reservation, Salt River - oi Irrigation system, Papago Indian Reservation &l4-bw Water supply, Navajo Indians, Arizona ^l Gila River, San Carlos Reservation o6 Payment for water. Salt River allottees o^ Granado irrigation project. ^^ Bridge across Little Colorado River °^ Navajo National Monument '. - .- - - 669 670 INDEX. Page. Erosion and overflow on Gila River ^^^ Gila River, irrigation : ^'° Smith, Marcus A., Hon., statement of 475 Pace, W. W., statement of 479 Merrill, Phil G. , statement of 470 CALIFORNIA. Construction of roads and bridges, Yuma Indian Reservation, Oal 516 Support of Indians in California 53-71 Purchase of lands for landless" Indians 71 Indian school. Riverside, Cal 74 Indian school. Fort Bidwell, Cal 75 Indian school, Greenville, Cal 77 Irrigating allotments, Yuma Reservation 75 FLORIDA. Support of Seminoles in Florida 78 Distribution of Seminole funds 283 IDAHO. Relief of Clarence Hazelbaker 248 Support of Indians of Port Hall Reservation 79 Maintenance, etc., Fort Hail irrigation system 79-82 . Support of Bonnocks, Idaho 80 Support of Ooeur d'Alenes, Idaho 80 KANSAS. Indian school, Lawrence, Kans. (Haskell) 80 Barn at Haskell 125 Indian school, Kickapoo Reservation, Kans 80 Big Soldier and Little Soldier Bridge 124 LOUISIANA, Purchase of land, Chettimanchi Indians 81 MICHIGAN. Saginaw, Swan Creek, and Black River Chippewa Indians 464 Indian school. Mount Pleasant, Mich 81 MINNESOTA. Check Scalers, Chippewa Reservations 455 Indian school, Pipestone, Minn 82, 452, 493, 501 Nett Lake School 482-504 Red Lake Forest 542 Enrollment of Chippewas 482 Prentice, Ed. , statement of, through interpreter 546 Patents to lands (White Earth) 495 Tribal funds, Chippewa Indians, White Earth celebration 456 Pine timber on Red Lake Reservation 504^534 Support and civilization of Pottawatomies 630 Claims of Chippewa Indians, Fond du Lac Band 450 Independent School District No. 1 455 Mineral lands 457 Red Lake Agency, Head, Nathan, statement of 543 MISSISSIPPI. School facilities of Indians 517 INDEX. 671 MONTANA. Page. Flathead homestead entry 121 Hot Springs. '. 138 CoBmos Hot Springs, improvement, etc., of 557 Crow Indian Reservation 228 Support of Indians: Fort Belknap Agency 82-133 Flathead Agency 82, 133, 141, 158, 160 Fort Peck Agency 82-133 Blackfeet Agency 83-146, 138 Irrigation system. Fort Belknap Reservation 83-133 Fulfilling treaties with Crows 84-159 Support of Northern Cheyennes and Arapahoes 84 Line riders. Northern Cheyenne Reservation 84 Support of Rocky Boy's Band . . l 84 Withdrawal, stock cattle, Blackfeet Reservation 85-136 Purchases of land, Flathead Reservation 85 Appraisal land, Flathead Reservation 85 Disposal of surplus lands, Blackfeet Reservation 609 Woods, John E., relief of 134-229 Irrigation systems, Blackfeet, Flathead, and Fort Peck Indian Reservation. . 575-599 Hamilton, Robert J., statement of, re coal fields, Blackfeet Indian Reservation. . 602 Bickford, H. K., relief of 606 NEBRASKA. Indian school, Genoa, Nebr 93-95 NEVADA. Support of Indians in Nevada 216 Indian school, Carson City, Nev 216 Irrigation, Pyramid Lake Reservation, Nev 216 Land and water rights, Washoe Tribe 218 Homeless Indians 218-220,563 NEW MEXICO. Assembly hall and gymnasium, Santa Fe School 305 Indian school, Albuquerque 96 Indian school, Santa Fe 97, 304 Counsel for Pueblo Indians. .". 97 Mesa Verde National Paik 97 Mesa Verde National Park highway 102 NEW TOEK. Fulfilling treaties with Senecas of New York 99 NORTH CAROLINA. Indian school, Cherokee, N. C ^^ Purchase of land for school purposes °^^ NORTH DAKOTA. Support of Sioux of Devils Lake KQ^R^ Support of Indians, Fort Berthold Agency irT Support of Chippewas, Turtle Mountain Band J-d^ Indian' school, Bismarck, N. Dak jo^ Indian school, Fort Totten, N. Dak ^oz Water supply. Fort Totten °^^ Indian school, Wahpeton, N. Dak..... ■-.--■--, i^.i Arikara, Gros Ventre, and Mandan Tribes, claims of o«o Funds from surplus lands ;; "A".,"/. 99'=, Redemption of mortgage, Starr McGillis ^^o Care of insane Indians - , „ . Hamilton, R. J., statement of... |^^g Scarlet Crow headstone. „„ Huber, Charles, statement of ^^^ Indian warehouses 672 INDEX. OKLAHOMA. „ Page. Support of Wichitas and affiliated bands ■ j°2 Tribal funds (Apaches, Kiowas, and Comanches), agency employees 17Z-193 Tribal funds (Apaches, Kiowas, and Comanches), homesteads 1"3 Support of Cheyennes and Arapahoea 194 Support of Kansas Indians IW Support of Poncas 195 Support of Kickapoos, Oklahoma 195 Indian School, Cnilocco 196 Support of Quapaws 196 Fulfilling treaties with Pawnees 196 Seminole Inidans, per capita payments 529 Women's board of domeetio missions 118 Right of way Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad 196 Townsite, Tuttle '. 524 Choctaw and Chickasaw, hospital 121 riVB CIVILIZED TRIBES. Administration affairs. Five Tribes 197 Per capita payment to Cho'ctaws and Chickasaws 203-219-284 Schools of Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole Nations 662 Probate attorneys. Five Tribes 204 Cherokee Orphan Training School 204 Segregated coal and asphalt area, Choctaw anfl Chickasaw Nations 651 Indian schools, Five Tribes 208-21S-216 Denison Coal Co., relinquishment of lands, Choctaw and Chickasaw coal base. . 625 Sale unallotted land. Five Tribes 205 Fulfilling treaties with Choctaws 206 Oil lands, Osage Nation Reservation 650-662 Oil and gas inspectors. Five Tribes 215 Authorizing negotiations of agreement with Indians 627 Purchase land, roadway, Choctaw Nation 207 Competency of adult restricted members 621 Per capita payments, Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes 207-663 Incompetent Indians 236 Relief of Stuart, Lewis, Gordon, and Rutherford, Creek Nation 619 Creek Nation, claim for legal services 241 Ballinger, Webster, statement of 285 Hurley, P. J., statement of ......' 306 OKBGON. Support of Indians: Klamath Agency ^ ^ 100 Warm Spring Agency 100 Umatilla Agency 101 Bridges at Umatilla 126 Indian School, Salem, Oreg 126 Support of Indians, Grande Ronde and Siletz Agency 102-104 Maintenance and operation Modoc Point irrigation system 105 Bridge across Klamath River, Klamath Reservation 521 Klamath Indians, authority to submit claims to Court of Claims 522 Klamath Delegation, traveling expenses 522 Klamath Indians, sale of lands 557 PENNSYLVANIA. Indian School, Carlisle 108 SOUTH DAKOTA. Sterling, Hon. Thos., statement of 234 Indian school, Flandreau, S. Dak "."..". 128-56^-663 Indian school, Pierre '/// 128 Indian school, Rapid City '.'■'.'........ 129 Support of Sioux, different tribes, employees, etc ] ] 131 HiTDEX. 673 Page. Education, Sioux Nation 130 Education, Sioux Indians 650 Support of Sioux, Yankton Tribe 132 Asylum for insane Indians, Canton 132 Standing Rock Reservation, wagon road 132 Schools on Rosebud, Cheyenne River, and Standing Rock Agencies 660 UTAH. Support of Confederated Bands of Utes, employees, etc 109 Support of Indians in Utah 109 Tnbal funds (Confederated Bands of Utes) 109 Support of -Confederated Bands of Utes, seeds, and employees 109 Irrigation, Uintah Reservation 109 Washakie School 114 Box Elder County, board of education 44 Kaibab Reservation 119 Myton Bridge 119 WASHINGTON. Support of D'Wamish and other allied tribes 110 West Okanogan irrigation project 570 Support of Makahs 110 Support of Quinnaielte and Quillehutes 110 Support of Yakima Indians 110 Support of Colville and certain other Indians Ill Support of Spokanes Ill Irrigation system, Yakima Reservation Ill Indian school, Takoma Ill Construction of dam, Yakima River 112 Patent to Washington State Historical Society 113 Granting lands to school district 56 113 Allotment to Indians, Colville Reservation 113 WISCONSIN. Hayward Indian School 260 Indian school at Tomah 260 Support of Chippewas, Lake Superior 260 School lands and swamp lands. Bad River and Lac du Flambeau Reservations. 523 Support of Pottawattomies * 260 Road on Red Cliff Reservation 632 Support of Wisconsin Band of Pottawattomies, Wisconsin 261, 630 Oneida Indians, purchase of cattle for ■. 536 Sale of timber. Bad River and Lac du Flambeau Reservations 523 St. Croix Chippewas _- 534 Tuition of pupils at Keewatin Academy, Wisconsin 553 Morrison, jr., J. G., statement of 556 Stockbridge and Munsee Tribes, payments 531 Clearing lands, Menominee Indians 262 Menominee IndianMills _- 518 Allotment, Lac du Flambeau Reservation 520 Construction of sidewalks in Odanah, Wis 530 Menominee Indians "51 WYOMING. Support of Shoshones ^^5 Indian school, Shoshone Reservation J-J-& Support of Shoshones, employees, etc no TTq Irrigation system, Wind River Reservation 1 1 a Roads and bridges, Shoshone Reservation J-|« Repairs, Fort Washakie '■'-'^ 31362—16 43 X